Who should pay for the US/Mexican wall?

[EmulateLife]

Nintendo, since they're suing every rom site in the United states that's all free money. They should pay it back by paying for the wall.

 

[the_randomizer]

This is why I'm cynical of all government officials, irrespective of the country. Why? Because all of them are out to do things out of spite, never for the people, never for the greater good, regardless of it being from GOP or GDP, spiteful bastards, the lot of them. That's just what I perceive from lamestream media.

 

[Xzi]

if anyone knows of people paying illegals to work for wages that are less than what a legal worker makes, tell on them!

*Cough,* I might know one guy guilty of this...

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-golf-course-may-committed-immigration-crimes-1274608

Well, we're already in debt and our taxes go nowhere.. Why not? Let's foot the bill!

"We're already in a hole caused by the current president, why not let him keep digging? It's not like there's an impending recession or anything!"

 

[brickmii82]

The problem isn’t about not having a physical barrier. The problem is having beaurocratic ones in the immigration processes. It’s a very long and expensive pain in the ass process to be here for many people, who are likely here just to make a decent living wage.

I think a major misconception being pushed here as rhetoric and propaganda is that the illegal immigration problem is primarily from border crossings. It’s not. It’s from visa overstays and legal crossings where people just didn’t go back. Arrests at the border have actually gone down.

This wall idea is completely asinine. We have technology that can spot a jackrabbit from 30 miles above the earths surface, helicopters with an operation/time range of 100 miles per 30 minutes, unmanned drones that can deliver a missile into an Amazon box, and our proposed solution to a border crossing problem is ... a big ass wall?!?

If that’s the case can I be knighted and have a broadsword too?

 

[brickmii82]

Republican evolution over the course of 30 years:
This ...


Evolved into this ...

 

[The Catboy]

The wall started as a mnemonic trick from his advisors to get him to talk about immigration policy in a way that was simple enough for him to remember: "Build a wall." Anything else about immigration would have been too complicated for him.

So basically what you saying is, Trump has the attention span of a toddler and this was an attempt to keep him just a little focused on something. But like a toddler, he thought it was a serious idea and is throwing a fit because now he wants it.

 

[SG854]

Republican evolution over the course of 30 years:
This ...


Evolved into this ...

It’s so weird, Republicans and Democrats flipped on this issue. Republicans wanted no wall because cheap labor, Democrats wanted a wall because they wanted higher wages for workers, then all of a sudden Trump came in and they flipped. I have no idea what’s going on.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@brickmii82

Do they really care about this immigration issue or are they just saying what people wanna hear to get votes?

 

[spotanjo3]

All governments, congresses, mayors and etc are all hypocrisy.. Always was and always will be. ALL HYPOCRISY!

 

[linuxares]

Evolved into this ...

China is would like to have a word about a great wall.

 

[SG854]

All governments, congresses, mayors and etc are all hypocrisy.. Always was and always will be. ALL HYPOCRISY!

I wouldn’t put faith in either the Democratic or Republican Party. They just say what people want to hear to get votes. Obama was known as the Deporter in Chief when he was president

Democrats voted for a border fence in 2006, that would cost billions over the years. And rag on Trump for wanting what was a Democratic policy for a long time. Even before this government shut down happened. They both are not to trust.

 

[CORE]

The Europeon Shadow Government! For Helping to cause instability and other Traitors of Humanity!

 

[Taleweaver]

A country has its rights to protect themselves from outsiders who intend on entering illegally. If anyone wants to visit/join a country then it needs to be done legally. Maybe, maybe a wall isn't necessary but stricter border controls are and none should be able to get from one country to another illegally.

A borderless country is the same as allowing anyone to step into your house.

Just out of curiosity: which poll option (if any) did you fill in?

I ask, because I've yet to hear the first US politician who wants to reduce border protection in any way, shape or form. It's rather the contrary: both parties want the most efficient border protection. It's just that they disagree on what that is.

Trump says...

Sorry, but I'm very much past the point of giving Trump any shred of credibility. I (and others who share my opinion on this) have already been accused of interpreting anything he says as bad, which is (at least for me) a very fair point of criticism. Critics claim that since he came into office, he has spewed about 16 lies and falsehoods per day. That's an astonishing amount...and I believe that. I do believe he's a pathological liar who just keeps on lying to cover up previous lies (small example: why isn't anyone talking about his earlier promise that Mexico would pay for the wall? Because now he's distracting the media with the bait of "it's the democrats' fault").

Take an example: if I point at a random person and claim that he has committed over 200 murders, your response shouldn't be "well...if only a fraction of that amount is true, then that's still a very bad person". Your response should be "is that Taleweaver guy credible enough to make such claims?". For me - and for at least a sizable amount of Americans - the very same thing goes: Trump is simply not credible enough to debate with.

I wasn't there in those 'behind closed door'-meetings. For all I know, Pelosi and Schumer tied him to a chair and anally raped him with the declaration of independence, shouting "beg for your wall, bitch! BEG FOR IT!!!". I fully admit: they could do it and get away with it because I simply do not believe someone who spewed so many lies already.

So...get me someone else. Honestly: can you link me one credible person who is in favor of the wall and can throw some numbers at me that somehow prove that this wall isn't a waste of money?
Heck...it's getting so ridiculous that even fox news channel corrects Trump's spokesperson ("erm...nope. Sorry: those two thousand terrorists you were talking about came here by plane.").

 

[Xzi]

I wouldn’t put faith in either the Democratic or Republican Party. They just say what people want to hear to get votes. Obama was known as the Deporter in Chief when he was president

Obama was also humane about deportations, and neither did he separate children from their families just to later hand them over to human traffickers, or have them die in ICE custody.

Democrats voted for a border fence in 2006, that would cost billions over the years. And rag on Trump for wanting what was a Democratic policy for a long time. Even before this government shut down happened. They both are not to trust.

You mean like the fence that's already on the border and in shambles? Again, Democrats aren't against border security, they just don't want to waste money on childish and ineffective solutions. They repeated that point in their response to Trump's prime-time address, and the response actually received higher viewership than the address itself.

 

[mrdude]

Companies such as Amazon, Microsoft, Google, WallMart etc, should pay their fair share of tax instead of using offshore havens and using every dodge in the book to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. The average man in the street pays a higher percentage of his incoming finances than these companies do (in comparison). Maybe if those companies payed their taxes properly - the wall could be built with that money.
The walls a good idea - it would make it more difficult for economic migrants to invade your country from its southern border - although wouldn't migrants just fly to Canada - and then come via your northern border - or just get a boat and sail to the eastern or western coastline?

 

[Xzi]

Companies such as Amazon, Microsoft, Google, WallMart etc, should pay their fair share of tax instead of using offshore havens and using every dodge in the book to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. The average man in the street pays a higher percentage of his incoming finances than these companies do (in comparison). Maybe if those companies payed their taxes properly - the wall could be built with that money.

Why though? Why wouldn't we use that money for literally anything else? Social Security needs more funding. Healthcare is a disaster in this country and it could be used to kickstart Medicare for all. Our existing infrastructure is shit across the board. We're way behind the rest of the world in renewable energy investments. Certain areas of the country don't even have clean drinking water. Too many more issues to list.

When it comes down to it, the only purpose a wall could possibly serve is to be a constant symbol of racism. Trump prioritizes building that symbol above all else, even programs/proposals that are much more popular and might've given him a shot in 2020. All I can do now is laugh because he's put himself in the worst no-win situation possible. Don't build the wall, lose some vital supporters. Build the wall, piss off the other 60% of voters who don't want their taxpayer dollars frittered away on a vanity project.

Regardless of it all, the vast majority of illegals will continue flying into the US and overstaying their work Visas. Nothing is going to change on that front, so Trump supporters are just going to have to get used to seeing brown people. Painful as it might be for them.

 

[SuzieJoeBob]

I really wonder how we'll look back at this period in time in history. Trump already broke many traditions and honors and made more dumb and dangerous remarks than any US president I know. Not only is US on track for breaking the longest government shutdown in recent history, it is all for something that is COMPLETELY NORMAL. The border situation is at best moderately worse than before, but in reality it's just the same.

But Donald Trump made a campaign promise that was so ridiculously dumb that opponents didn't bother to disprove ("Mexico paying for a wall with USA? They already replied they weren't going to!"). Nobody thought that clown would beat all the other candidates, and even less people thought he'd attempt to follow through on his lie. The result: he's looking for someone to blame. Mexico would be pretty stupid to blame (he never even started any dialogue in that direction, he has zero bargaining power and - again - they denied they were going to pay for it even during the election campaign). So he once again tries to blame democrats.

Fucking democrats...how dare they not wanting to waste US tax dollars? Even worse: they chose to believe people in the field rather than...than...erm...well, who besides Donald IS saying this wall is a good idea?

And now it comes to this.
George W. Bush made a public speech after 9/11
Barack Obama made a public speech to announce they killed Osama Bin Laden
Donald J. Trump made a public speech to plea to build a wall


Honestly: why do you Americans let him do all that shit? He's on the brink of being trialed as a fraud, and in the mean time you just let him piss all over whatever ethical standards there are on being the president of the united states? Why?

...on second thought: don't answer that question. I don't wanna hear it.

Well, we all know who the spoon-fed college student is now...

 

[Xzi]

Well, we all know who the spoon-fed college student is now...

Oh god, he went to college instead of living in a trailer in his hometown for his entire life?!?

HERETIC! BURN THE EDUCATED ONES! /s

 

[SuzieJoeBob]

I just get tired of people that prefer to get their news from celebrities and news stations (CNN and Fox included) instead of doing their own independent research. Based on the most recent USA Census, about 63% of illegal immigrants access the US Welfare system for financial support. Coupling that with the fact that $18.3 billion is spent annually for Medicaid-funded medical visits, the entirety of the wall could be funded easily AND still have substantial money left over from just the taxpayer-funded Medicaid spent in one year!

The arguments provided by many online and in person are, for the most part, emotionally based and do not take the economyand national wellbeing into account. The first argument provided is usually related the the welfare of the children and women that are emmigrating to the continental United States, but their welfare should be taken into account first by their very own people. As you can read here, the caravan's own members leave women and children behind with a survival-of-the-fittest mentality, wether it be hitchhiking in a pickup or completely leaving women and children at home. If the families were truely in danger, the whole family would have gone together, correct?

Immigrants were even offered citizenship by Mexico, but refused, determined to get to the United States. If Mexico offered you sanctuary in one of the safer areas of Mexico, why would you STILL refuse to accept aid unless your reason for venturing to America was for abusing government aid and manipulating government institutions for selfish personal gains?

*The reason I used the Washington Times article was to show that the same people peddling the immigrant inclusion is also admitting that the caravan isn't inclusive itself.

 

[osaka35]

The assumption was, by those with an understanding of how government should work, he was too obvious in his ignorance to be electable. We overestimated people's knowledge about government.

Those who don't pay attention still think republicans are fiscally conservative and for small government, and democrats are for using the government to help as many people as possible (the balance between the two had helped us in the past to max/min helping/cost and minimize red-tape). But currently the US system is more akin to whatever corporate influences can buy folks. they've always been self-serving, but now they can do it easily without repercussions.

Majority of republicans are conservative in name only, and any actual folks aiming for a positive progression of the country have to struggle to meet some semblance of sanity (this applies to real republicans and democrats alike). I mean, just look at this wall. So many people support it. but why? It's not fiscally responsible, it will have no consequences other than adding billions to the national debt, and most likely will make only those who pass it richer through kick-backs. It is the definition of everything fiscal conservatives should be against, as well as democracts, and yet most party republicans are on board for it. Why? this certainly has helped me distinguish between those from who understands government and those who just root for their favorite team, regardless of ideology.

Even if you want to continue supporting trump because...well, you like his "I dunno" style of government, and don't care about his racism/sexism/general lack of humanity, you don't have to support everything he does. Supporting someone doesn't mean being required to support everything they do. Something as obviously detrimental as this should be a no-brainer, "who would want something so expensive and ineffectual," kind of decision.

Based on the most recent USA Census, about 63% of illegal immigrants access the US Welfare system for financial support. Coupling that with the fact that $18.3 billion is spent annually for Medicaid-funded medical visits, the entirety of the wall could be funded easily AND still have substantial money left over from just the taxpayer-funded Medicaid spent in one year!

Do you know how people sign up for such things? how they start getting money? You make it sound like just by breathing in the states you get a wad of money and keep some sort of anonymity.

Also, the wall won't actually keep any undocumented folk out. That's the false assumption that's going to cost us billions. And if you want to save money on healthcare, get rid of our for-profit system and replace it with a cheaper system. Republicans tend to be against this fiscally responsible choice as well, oddly enough.

Immigrants were even offered citizenship by Mexico, but refused, determined to get to the United States. If Mexico offered you sanctuary in one of the safer areas of Mexico, why would you STILL refuse to accept aid unless your reason for venturing to America was for abusing government aid and manipulating government institutions for selfish personal gains?

So you're saying a wall is going to protect us from immigrants not going through mexico? Or just those who live in mexico have a good reason to want to be in the states?

 

[SuzieJoeBob]

The assumption was, by those with an understanding of how government should work, he was too obvious in his ignorance to be electable. We overestimated people's knowledge about government.

Those who don't pay attention still think republicans are fiscally conservative and for small government, and democrats are for using the government to help as many people as possible (the balance between the two had helped us in the past to max/min helping/cost and minimize red-tape). But currently the US system is more akin to whatever corporate influences can buy folks. they've always been self-serving, but now they can do it easily without repercussions.

Majority of republicans are conservative in name only, and any actual folks aiming for a positive progression of the country have to struggle to meet some semblance of sanity (this applies to real republicans and democrats alike). I mean, just look at this wall. So many people support it. but why? It's not fiscally responsible, it will have no consequences other than adding billions to the national debt, and most likely will make only those who pass it richer through kick-backs. It is the definition of everything fiscal conservatives should be against, as well as democracts, and yet most party republicans are on board for it. Why? this certainly has helped me distinguish between those from who understands government and those who just root for their favorite team, regardless of ideology.

Even if you want to continue supporting trump because...well, you like his "I dunno" style of government, and don't care about his racism/sexism/general lack of humanity, you don't have to support everything he does. Supporting someone doesn't mean being required to support everything they do. Something as obviously detrimental as this should be a no-brainer, "who would want something so expensive and ineffectual," kind of decision.

Jim Accosta, one of the most outspoken people against President Trump just accidentally admitted himself that the border wall would indeed work.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Acosta/status/1083411819354558467