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Let's talk about suppression

smf

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If we agree that neither SCOTUS or state government is democracy (in the absolute sense), which is more democratic in terms of relativity? SCOTUS rulings or voted representatives passing laws in their state.
SCOTUS was stuffed full of right wingnuts just as the sun set on Trumps decaying rule.

The state legislature is imposing rules against their population with no mandate.

Do I need to explain what democracy is?

You might agree with what they are doing, but it's disingenuous to argue it's being done correctly.
 
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tabzer

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SCOTUS was stuffed full of right wingnuts just as the sun set on Trumps decaying rule.

The state legislature is imposing rules against their population with no mandate.

Do I need to explain what democracy is?

You might agree with what they are doing, but it's disingenuous to argue it's being done correctly.
If you paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd notice that I never made the claim that it was democracy "done correctly". I even went as far to say that it isn't.

"More" is a term denoting relativity. I claimed that state representation was more democratic than SCOTUS decree. You said that this is false.

Answer the question:

If we agree that neither SCOTUS or state government is democracy (in the absolute sense), which is more democratic in terms of relativity? SCOTUS rulings or voted representatives passing laws in their state.


If you think SCOTUS rulings are more democratic than individually voted representatives passing laws (because it's about a law you think everybody wants), then I am inclined to believe that you think a monarchy is a democracy as long as the Queen or King makes rules that are popular.

If you want to admit that you didn't understand what you were arguing against from the beginning, I'll accept the concession.
 

DCarnage

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There's a semi interesting aspect that I want to go ahead and talk about. Just a notice of two similar things.


Hitler became Hilter because he believed that the Jews were suppressing him and the German race. It happened to be that he got his information from a small "newspaper" business that primarily focused on anti Semite rehetroic.

We're going to be making a lot of pins here. So just remember that this point exists as we're going to come back to it later.

There's also another aspect
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda-and-censorship

Primarily that he was a free speech advocate...


And then the moment he took power he no longer was. Or more accurately. Lied about supporting free speech.


And that text books were banned.
Pin this one as well.

Then you had all the means of propaganda


Let's also put a pin into this.

At this point, if your not brain fucked. All of these should be bringing very loud bells in your head.

Let's unpin from the same order.

Hitler believed that Jews where suppressing Germans, and used that hate back belief to suppress and kill Jews.

While it doesn't match one to one. That sounds awfully similar to republican/maga rehetroic. History doesn't repeat but it often rhymes. That it's leftists, those liberals ruining the world. (Using liberals in the way they would use it as leftist and liberal do not belong in the same sentence.)
But let's briefly identify "liberal"
Because liberal has become sonyonmus with a particular party in the United States. Democrats.

Take this a step further. They intentionally conflate leftist and liberal in the same sentence.

Why would this all matter?
Well, it wasn't the Jews Hitler went after first. It was the socialist party. Aka the left leaning party.
See fascists will do what is opportune to gain power. So their affiliation when getting to power doesn't matter. Their actions vs their words speak. Hitler killed socialist first. And the reason why is he did/facism looks to kill it's opposition first is because they are the most likely to counter it. then thre angry hatefilled cycle continues. Spiraling to with in grouping and out grouping once the first opposition is killed.

Again history won't repeat the same way. But it rhymes.
So I find it interesting that Republicans/maga are expecting a civil war, but also gearing up for it. But also sounding happy that it's going to happen.
Not a single inch or ounce of remorse. Not a single moment of thinking about how much that would suck or hurt.

Let's unpin the second one finally. Being a free speech " supporter" while simultaneously trying to censor and control.

For starters. Maga/Republicans trying to apply the first admendemnt to business. Claiming that their opposition supports and likes to suppress free speech. While simultaneously, banning people from saying certain words in schools, and banning books, specifically trans books.

Where have we heard this before?
Now someone is likely going to say "but it doesn't ban democrats though!!!"
No it doesn't explicitly ban them. But if your a party that already actively harms trans and gay people. They are going to go to the opposition and more likely be a Democrat. (If we ONLY had a choice between the two parties for this argument to be clear. As I know many would vote with their conscious)
Point being however, it's rhyming. Strongly with what Hitler has done.

Lets get to propaganda.

This part is multifaceted. I could look into malt Walsh libs of ticktock causing bomb threats on a specifIc hospital because of a trans pediatrician (or malt Walsh's argument that they do sex change surgies. Which they don't.) I could look into the fact that Trump is the only one with bumper stickers, hats, flags, and much more. Echoing
  • Glorifying Adolf Hitler by using his image on postcards, posters, and in the press;
  • Spreading negative images and ideas about Jews in magazines, films, cartoons, and other media;
Cartoons about how "how rediclous the 'left' is" painting trump in a good light. Or Trump being the face of maga and the Republican party still. Despite him no longer being president.
Or how about the rehetroic regarding maralgo? Every single maga person I have seen, doesn't even give a second to question the possibility that Trump did something wrong.
Because to them, trump is never wrong.


So I once again challenge maga/republicans. Are you sure your the one being prosecuted? Or are you looking to make an excuse to prosecute a group you don't like.
And no matter how many times people told them they were wrong and showed them the truth, the Germans blindly followed Hitler and his regime. They mainly teach history so we don't repeat the mistakes from the past but here we are.
 

tabzer

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And no matter how many times people told them they were wrong and showed them the truth, the Germans blindly followed Hitler and his regime. They mainly teach history so we don't repeat the mistakes from the past but here we are.

"Democracy" elected and enabled Hitler to cancel it. Germans didn't "blindly" follow Hitler. They were incentivized. In the end America fought Germany for control over the Nazis.

"They" mainly teach history in a way so that children learn to idolize their government. In my lifetime, America has always been a global tyrant enabled by its "democracy".
 
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Lumstar

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Why are we asking trick questions? Neither answer gives real power to the voting electorate. There's no democracy in appointed SCOTUS judges (the people didn't elect them) passing laws the people didn't vote for.

Elected state representatives passing laws people don't necessarily want, is still politicians imposing their ideas on the populace.
 
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tabzer

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Why are we asking trick questions? Neither answer gives real power to the voting electorate. There's no democracy in appointed SCOTUS judges (the people didn't elect them) passing laws the people didn't vote for.

Elected state representatives passing laws people don't necessarily want, is still politicians imposing their ideas on the populace.
It's not a trick question. I have the belief that "true democracy" is as elusive as "true socialism". There can only be moves towards or moves from. SCOTUS still has a democratic quality, though imo, it is smaller than the centralizing authoritarian quality it contains (because it is more layered and gameable for parties; not people). People elect politicians despite them being liars, and they suffer the consequence of that. In comparison, one is more accessible to a voter than the other. It's almost an objective measurement. However, any system where everyone, who is affected, doesn't get a direct say about the government influence in their lives is not democratic enough.

That all being said, I think the shift is more democratic and less centralized. Now there should be more focus on how states align with democratic principles as the change in power structure incentivizes it. If one state could demonstrate a superior model, then other states would likely adopt such measures, more quickly than a national system that is more bogged down by bureaucratic inefficiency.

If one doesn't see the point of my initial claim, then it is even more pointless to argue on a single side of the claim. At least you ask the question.
 
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TraderPatTX

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The all defining logic of the TraderPatTX.
Let him tell you how you "the media" is lying to you.
Most news last about 2 minutes and the rest is commentary from what ever source your drinking from.

And Stitched this for you:

Communists and fascists are like Catholic and Protestant Christians. Same core beliefs with minor differences. Communists and fascists are both socialist just like Catholic and Protestant are both Christians.

The current definition for fascism was made up and propagated by the media, just like republicans being stuck with the color red, the terms assault rifle and QAnon, which have zero meaning at all.

For a group who supposedly despises corporations, the right sure does enjoy doing what corporations tell them to do. They also celebrate when the FBI tells corporations to censor people's speech, which is fascism. They may not be nationalists, but nationalism is one of the defining characteristics of fascism.
So you can't refute a single word I have said, resorting to only attacks. Yet another smooth brained leftist trying to be clever and epically failing at it.

You have a micro brain to go with your micro nut.
 
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MicroNut99

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If you paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd notice that I never made the claim that it was democracy "done correctly". I even went as far to say that it isn't.

"More" is a term denoting relativity. I claimed that state representation was more democratic than SCOTUS decree. You said that this is false.

Answer the question:

If we agree that neither SCOTUS or state government is democracy (in the absolute sense), which is more democratic in terms of relativity? SCOTUS rulings or voted representatives passing laws in their state.


If you think SCOTUS rulings are more democratic than individually voted representatives passing laws (because it's about a law you think everybody wants), then I am inclined to believe that you think a monarchy is a democracy as long as the Queen or King makes rules that are popular.

If you want to admit that you didn't understand what you were arguing against from the beginning, I'll accept the concession.
Mocking other members is against the rules.
 

tabzer

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Mocking other members is against the rules.

I'm sorry if you think presenting a stronger argument is a form of mockery.

That happens on there alot mostly Ad homers from all sides that hurt there arguments

If you read what he was responding to, there was no "ad homer". I think he just doesn't know who or what he is responding to.
 

Deleted member 586536

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You know, I don't think any of us said this outloud. So I'm going to go say it.


Cancel Culture is just a shitty excuse for shitty people to avoid blame.



Say something garbage and untrue about a certain group of people (LGBTQ if you really want to know the specific)
And everyone who knows the subject, and or LGBTQ, go ahead and calls that person out on their bullshit.


And instead of that person maybe looking in, or thinking their wrong. It's "We'll it's the woke leftists doing cancel culture, so I can't be wrong" even though not all of them are leftists with a decent chunk being more moderate than that.
To tie this back into the subject, it's the conservatives party method of suppressing people, without dealing or thinking of the consequences of their actions, instead any critique goes to "it must be cancel culture from the woke left"
Post automatically merged:

And woke isn't even defined as it's own thing. "woke" to them is somehow left leaning. But I've seen woke used as a replacement for left.
Then the sentence (presuming "woke" means left")
goes "It's must be cancel culture from the left left" which doesn't make any sense. Woke in the way the right has been using it, has no define start and end point. It just means whatever they (Conservatives) don't like.
LGBTQ (and) trans rights? woke.

Saying that Nazi's are like idk. Bad? I've kid you not, the quartering, defended fucking Hitler during the twitter blow up, and someone clearly from his base, in his comments was like "It's just the woke leftists trying to cancel you again..."
Like is there a woke right winger? is that a thing? is there a non woke leftist? what the hell does woke even mean to these people?

To me it's just a dog-whistle to accentuate whatever "X" thing they want to hate today.
Post automatically merged:

Continuing my tangent here. Apparently woke is supposed to mean aware of social injustices. (such as racism) According to
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
So umm. If that's what it means. Aka "It must be cancel culture from the left who is aware of social injustices"
Shouldn't that be like... Not be used in a derogatory way????
Like isn't the point of politics to you know. Resolve injustices?Create policies to you know... heelp people?????????
Wouldn't that mean that Republicans don't want to fix that? by using woke in a way that makes it sound like a problem????


Also another thing that's continued to not make sense, and now that I'm extra hyper aware of it. So I don't get Republican logic with:
"democrats are racists, we are the party of Lincoln, see, it's in the name, so we're not racist, you're the racist"
Like it's. Hold up I found a meme online about the subject, and this perfectly encapsulates how absurd it is
1667423301993.png
Okay this is EXACTLY why it's confusing to me. Let's forget that the party switch happened (since apparently acknowledging history is too out there for Republicans)
Can you PLEASE explain to me why you go out, showing the confederate flag. you know. The confederacy. the one that wanted slavery
If we know Lincoln fought the confederacy, which we know the confederacy was pro slavery. Why are you all using, confederate imagery.
You can't claim that your the party of Lincoln, while effectively showing support for the very thing he fought against.

Additionally, the argument double doesn't make sense, since when the whole tearing down statues event happened. The same people, Republicans, who like to show their confederate flags, got angry that the confederate statues were being taken down.
 
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Jayro

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To me, being woke means not sleeping on important social issues. I don't see it as anything bad, but I'm also left-leaning in terms of ideals and practice.
 

sombrerosonic

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To me, being woke means not sleeping on important social issues. I don't see it as anything bad, but I'm also left-leaning in terms of ideals and practice.
To me, woke its waking up in the past tense /j . but i digress, What is exactly suppression? If we treat everyone equal, would there be no suppression? Should we treat people who done horrid things worse and people who did good better, Should it effect things like everyone is payed the exact same or is it a "You work for how much your job is worth" kinda thing? Just asking.
 

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