# Texas Democrats who fled elections bill vote get COVID Fully vaxxed.



## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

AP reports Democrats fleeing Texas to avoid voting on election integrity contracted Covid despite being Vaccinated.

https://www.chron.com/politics/article/Virus-Outbreak-Runaway-Lawmakers-16321727.php


There are so many take aways from this, Karma is real and and how can other states encourage Democrats to leave.

Play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

'AP reports Democrats fleeing Texas to avoid voting on election integrity contracted Covid. Luckily they were fully Vaccinated, therefore the symptoms were negligable.'

Fixed it for ya.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> 'AP reports Democrats fleeing Texas to avoid voting on election integrity contracted Covid. Luckily they were fully Vaccinated, therefore the symptoms were negligable.'
> 
> Fixed it for ya.



Making things up and lying is why people justifiably do not trust the current recommendations.  
*
"All three were fully vaccinated against the disease, according to Martin, who declined to release their names or conditions."*


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

What did they lie about? You DO know that vaccines don't make you immune to what you've been vaccinated for, right?


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> What did they lie about? You DO know that vaccines don't make you immune to what you've been vaccinated for, right?


Jimbo does not argue in good faith.  He'll never acknowledge facts that are inconvenient to him.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> What did they lie about? You DO know that vaccines don't make you immune to what you've been vaccinated for, right?



Your lying when you claim you misspell their symptoms are "Negligible".   There condition is unknown.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

Ah frig, I get it now. I'm wasting my time talking to a child who's been brainwashed by their dingus uneducatted American parents. 

I won't hold it against you that you made a mistake with the word "us", when you clearly made a typo for the word "is".  But here's a point to keep in mind for the future: When you try to shame someone for making a typo, don't make a gramatical mistake when using the word "Your" vs "You're". Seriously, that's one of the most basic and simple mistakes that are CONSTANTLY being made fun of on the net for making, and yet... here you are. 

Also, to say that their symptoms were negligible wouldn't be a lie. It would be an assumption based on mountains of evidence. There's a reason why 99.7% of all covid deaths are from unvacinated people.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

Why is this news? Breakthrough infections are still possible among people who are vaccinated, particularly if they interact with a lot of unvaccinated people. The good news is they are unlikely to suffer serious illness because they are vaccinated, and their viral loads are likely to be lower (thus making them less likely to spread disease) because they are vaccinated.

We are also only talking about three people.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

My guess is, you only noticed my typo when you copied and pasted the word into google to get the definition.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Why is this news? Breakthrough infections are still possible among people who are vaccinated, particularly if they interact with a lot of unvaccinated people. The good news is they are unlikely to suffer serious illness because they are vaccinated, and their viral loads are likely to be lower (thus making them less likely to spread disease) because they are vaccinated.
> 
> We are also only talking about three people.



That was engaging in unnecessary interstate travel, unmasked, meeting with the VP and leadership while infected with Covid because they needed to throw a public tantrum over voter ID.


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Why is this news?


It isn't, it's just another ignorant anti-vaxxer grasping at straws.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> That was engaging in unnecessary interstate travel, unmasked, meeting with the VP and leadership while infected with Covid because they needed to throw a public tantrum over voter ID.


They didn't violate any laws, regulations, nor guidance, as far as I'm aware. Despite the guidance from the CDC that vaccinated people can generally go maskless, breakthrough infections do occur, albeit rarely. This isn't news.

There's also a very good argument that their travel wasn't "unnecessary."


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

"There condition is unknown."

Dude! You corrected "us" to "is", but you left "There" instead of "Their"? You also left "Your" and didn't change it to "You're"!? I gave that one to you on a silver platter. Why even bother making the single change?!

You need to go back to elementary before you can try to talk politics. Crawl before you run, child.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> you made a mistake with the word "us", when you clearly made a typo for the word "is". But here's a point to keep in mind for the future: When you try to shame someone for making a typo, don't make a gramatical mistake when using the word "Your" vs "You're". Seriously, that's one of the most basic and simple mistakes that are CONSTANTLY being made fun of on the net for making, and yet... here you are.
> 
> Also, to say that their symptoms were negligible wouldn't be a lie. It would be an assumption based on mountains of evidence. There's a reason why 99.7% of all covid deaths are from unvacinated people.





titan_tim said:


> "There condition is unknown."
> 
> Dude! You corrected "us" to "is", but you left "There" instead of "Their"? You also left "Your" and didn't change it to "You're"!? I gave that one to you on a silver platter. Why even bother making the single change?!
> 
> You need to go back to elementary before you can try to talk politics. Crawl before you run, child.



Still a liar willfully spreading disinformation you pull out of your ass, just like most people claiming to be a vax expert.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Still a liar willfully spreading disinformation you pull out of your ass, just like most people claiming to be a vax expert.


It's generally the anti-vaxxers who spread misinformation.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

Just because it's fun to prove my assumtion right, here's a quote from one of the three people infected, Celia Israel. 

“Thankfully I am doing well and hope to get over the infection with mild symptoms. I am currently quarantining until I test negative. I urge anyone not vaccinated to do so as soon as possible to help stop the spread.”

One proven, two to go.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's generally the anti-vaxxers who spread misinformation.



Here let me try and speak your language,  

"Debunked  9_% derp derp"

*FACT:*
poltifact.com/skewedopioninatednonsense


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## Hanafuda (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> They didn't violate any laws, regulations, nor guidance, as far as I'm aware. Despite the guidance from the CDC that vaccinated people can generally go maskless, breakthrough infections do occur, albeit rarely. This isn't news.
> 
> There's also a very good argument that their travel wasn't "unnecessary."



Isn't there still a federal mask mandate during air travel, vaccinated or not? Not that I care, nor do I think it had anything to do with any of them testing positive. But just 'fact checking' your suggestion that they 'didn't violate any laws, regulations, nor guidance ...' They definitely did, then tried to waffle-language their way around it by saying it was a charter flight (irrelevant), that they all knew each other (irrelevant), and that they were all vaccinated (irrelevant). I think all of those are reasonable explanations for why they shouldn't have needed to wear masks on a bus or on an airplane, but the federal mask mandate for transportation is still in effect and doesn't have any such exceptions.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Isn't there still a federal mask mandate during air travel, vaccinated or not? Not that I care, nor do I think it had anything to do with any of them testing positive. But just 'fact checking' your suggestion that they 'didn't violate any laws, regulations, nor guidance ...' They definitely did, then tried to waffle-language their way around it by saying it was a charter flight (irrelevant), that they all knew each other (irrelevant), and that they were all vaccinated (irrelevant). I think all of those are reasonable explanations for why they shouldn't have needed to wear masks on a bus or on an airplane, but the federal mask mandate for transportation is still in effect and doesn't have any such exceptions.



But photo-ops and grandstanding during political stunts while you violate the will of the voters is super super serial business.


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Isn't there still a federal mask mandate during air travel, vaccinated or not? Not that I care, nor do I think it had anything to do with any of them testing positive. But just 'fact checking' your suggestion that they 'didn't violate any laws, regulations, nor guidance ...' They definitely did, then tried to waffle-language their way around it by saying it was a charter flight (irrelevant), that they all knew each other (irrelevant), and that they were all vaccinated (irrelevant). I think all of those are reasonable explanations for why they shouldn't have needed to wear masks on a bus or on an airplane, but the federal mask mandate for transportation is still in effect and doesn't have any such exceptions.


Those of us responsible adults who got fully vaccinated aren't going to keep waiting for the anti-vax dipshits to get with the program.  We'd literally be waiting until the end of time.  The possibility of catching COVID after being fully vaccinated is very slim, and the possibility of exhibiting severe symptoms is even slimmer.


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## Hanafuda (Jul 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Those of us responsible adults who got fully vaccinated aren't going to keep waiting for the anti-vax dipshits to get with the program.  We'd literally be waiting until the end of time.  The possibility of catching COVID after being fully vaccinated is very slim, and the possibility of exhibiting severe symptoms is even slimmer.


 
I know all that. And I got vaccinated back in March/April if you're interested to know. Doesn't change there's still a rule, and they ignored it. I wouldn't have mentioned it, if Lacius hadn't said otherwise.


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## SG854 (Jul 19, 2021)

Are they dead? If they are not then thats the vaccine at work.

Preventing infection while nice isn't the most important part for the vaccine. The most important reason for the vaccine is to help boost your bodies defense system to fight the virus before it gets worse. If they are not hospitalized or not dead then the vaccine is doing work. You are less likely to get infected and even way more less likely to die after the vaccine.


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## djpannda (Jul 19, 2021)

I love how this news headline supports the reasoning for everyone to get vaccinated but The right siting there....


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Isn't there still a federal mask mandate during air travel, vaccinated or not? Not that I care, nor do I think it had anything to do with any of them testing positive. But just 'fact checking' your suggestion that they 'didn't violate any laws, regulations, nor guidance ...' They definitely did, then tried to waffle-language their way around it by saying it was a charter flight (irrelevant), that they all knew each other (irrelevant), and that they were all vaccinated (irrelevant). I think all of those are reasonable explanations for why they shouldn't have needed to wear masks on a bus or on an airplane, but the federal mask mandate for transportation is still in effect and doesn't have any such exceptions.



They chartered a private jet, not a commercial jet, so the federal mask mandate apparently doesn't apply. It is indeed relevant.
They are all vaccinated, which significantly reduces the chances of getting infected. It also significantly reduces the chances that someone who is infected with spread the disease or suffer serious illness from the disease. Their vaccination status is very relevant.
They fact that they are all close contacts who work together anyway is relevant. Like all close contacts, they're potentially exposing each other all the time. The fact that they're close contacts is also relevant.

If I want to use public transit, I have to wear a mask (vaccinated or not), but if I get a limousine for myself and some close friends (and all of us are vaccinated), there's no mask mandate, the CDC guidance is we don't have to wear masks in that situation, and there's no moral imperative to wear masks in that situation. The current mask mandates are all about public conveyances, since you don't know who is/isn't vaccinated, and there is a higher risk for transmittance.


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## BitMasterPlus (Jul 19, 2021)

Losers. They're all losers.


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Losers. They're all losers.


Except...Republicans lost the last two elections?  Pretty badly, at that.  They went from controlling the House, Senate, and presidency in 2016, to controlling none of those things in 2020.  Which is the only reason they're now trying to re-enact Jim Crow laws on the state level.  They're sore losers.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Losers. They're all losers.


I'm curious: Which of the following makes a person a loser?

Fighting for democracy
Fighting against democracy because Republicans are so unpopular that all non-incumbent Republicans (and relevantly, one incumbent Republican loser in 2020 named Donald Trump) have lost the popular vote in every presidential election after 1988?


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Fighting for Democracy



What a bullshit meaningless platitude, they are fighting voter ID which 70-95% of the public supports across polls.

Everyone has a right to believe the elections have integrity, not just your partisan camp.


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## WG481 (Jul 19, 2021)

Good dickens, don't turn this into the COVID vaccine thread.

Vaccines don't make you immune, but they do increase your chances of not contracting the disease, and if you do, lessens the symptoms. "Immunity" is referred to the nullification and lessening of certain effects of COVID-19. However, being an idiot and not getting the vaccine will do the following:

Your survival chances are lower than one who is vaccinated.
Your risk of the contraction of any strain, any breakthrough, or any form of COVID-19 is higher than one who is vaccinated.
Your symptoms are worse.
You are banned from air travel to foreign countries. You must provide proof of vaccination (Vaccination Card only) and consent to a COVID screening on-site *immediately* at your arrival.
You are highly recommended to wear a mask within stores.
Your IQ is significantly decreased.

And a friendly note: partial vaccination is not full vaccination. I would advise those of you awaiting dose no. 2 to remain masked within stores for the protection of others. Full vaccination will get you the perks you desire. Just wait for those three weeks and you are on the track to freedom!

Another note: get vaccinated. To heck with pushing meaningless propaganda, I'm pushing *factual propaganda, betches.* I will not stop until people here are no longer vaccine ignorant.

Tertiary note: If you are still saying COVID is a simulation, the vaccine is poison and a microchip, or think that COVID is population control/government inner-workings, you are wrong. If it was a government working they could shut it down rather than push for vaccination. If you think it's a microchip, you are literally being tracked right now. You have microchips everywhere if you have internet. If you think it's a simulation, wake up and get off of r/conspiracy. Nothing you read there is true and will be disproven immediately by qualified scientists, police experts, and us here on GBATemp with the ability to research. If you think the vaccine is poison, you have put worse things in your body.

Quaternary note: The Delta strain is a strain of COVID that has gained partial resilience to the vaccine. You are still safe with the vaccine, but Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna are working on boosters. Stay safe guys.  



I have proof against theories. There are qualified experts who can tell you what I just told you is true.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Everyone has a right to believe the elections have integrity, not just your partisan camp.



Here's the problem with that. The last administration brought up 60 court cases about election integrity after the election, and they were ALL shot down by the judges (Many being Trump appointees). The "big lie" has been continually circulated in the most noisy of echo chambers, which has caused these frivious laws to be created. All in order to give credibility to the original "big lie". So you've been shown that the elections have no issues, and yet you ignore those facts and are still whining for more restrictions on voting. 

The facts have been laid out for you, and yet you're still content being a zombie for a party that is only looking out for themselves. Republicans are going to lose Texas sooner or later. The demographics are shifting, and the right's only weapon against it is stopping people from voting.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Here's the problem with that. The last administration brought up 60 court cases about election integrity after the election, and they were ALL shot down by the judges (Many being Trump appointees). The "big lie" has been continually circulated in the most noisy of echo chambers, which has caused these frivious laws to be created. All in order to give credibility to the original "big lie". So you've been shown that the elections have no issues, and yet you ignore those facts and are still whining for more restrictions on voting.
> 
> The facts have been laid out for you, and yet you're still content being a zombie for a party that is only looking out for themselves. Republicans are going to lose Texas sooner or later. The demographics are shifting, and the right's only weapon against it is stopping people from voting.



Voter ID has been an issue long before Trump, the only thing shifting is Californian's fat asses because they can't afford housing where they lived because of their failed ideology.

The reality is Dems have waves, but Conservatism isn't going anywhere it's a simple matter of time and age.

Progressives have the young, welfare recipients, state employees (same thing)  and entertainers.
People that don't have to function in a real economy, job market or the real world.
Young progressives theory craft about all the people they want to take care of.
Conservatives actually have people they need to care for.

Tax bills and time always does a great job of recruiting for the GOP.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Voter ID has been an issue long before Trump,.



Is Voter ID the ONLY thing on the bill which the Republicans are trying to push through? Or were there any other sinister new restrictions which you are conveniently not including?

Because if there WERE other things in the bill that are terrible in that bill, then it would mean that you are being a bad faith actor.


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Is Voter ID the ONLY thing on the bill which the Republicans are trying to push through? Or were there any other sinister new restrictions which you are conveniently not including?
> 
> Because if there WERE other things in the bill that are terrible in that bill, then it would mean that you are being a bad faith actor.


Yeah there are also restrictions on mail-in and early voting.  He's full of shit.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Is Voter ID the ONLY thing on the bill which the Republicans are trying to push through? Or were there any other sinister new restrictions which you are conveniently not including?
> 
> Because if there WERE other things in the bill that are terrible in that bill, then it would mean that you are being a bad faith actor.




What's in that bill that's not common place in other states?


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> What's in that bill that's not common place in other states?



I think you mean "commonplace".

Again, there has been no evidence of voter mass fraud. The 60 court cases has proven that there is no evidence to say otherwise, therefore these are laws only to limit voters coming to the polls in Democratic counties. You do know that voting is a right, correct? It shouldn't be a race to the bottom for how difficult it is to vote in your state. If anything, the state should be pushing for a national holiday for voting.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> I think you mean "commonplace".
> 
> Again, there has been no evidence of voter mass fraud. The 60 court cases has proven that there is no evidence to say otherwise, therefore these are laws only to limit voters coming to the polls in Democratic counties. You do know that voting is a right, correct? It shouldn't be a race to the bottom for how difficult it is to vote in your state. If anything, the state should be pushing for a national holiday for voting.




What laws are those?  You will continually ramble on about abstracts and avoid citing what they are at all cost.

Voting is a right for qualified legal citizens who meet the residency requirements of where they are voting, and every state has the right and obligation to set those parameters and make sure they are followed and citizens need to be able to verify that they were.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


>



Even your quote is fake:

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/


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## AmandaRose (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Even your quote is fake:
> 
> https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/


I was just about to post the exact same link


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Even your quote is fake:
> 
> https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/



Cry more because you can't cite what laws your complaining about.



titan_tim said:


> You do know that voting is a right, correct?



So is gun ownership, we still check IDs and tell felons to fuck off


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## Hanafuda (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> They chartered a private jet, not a commercial jet, so the federal mask mandate apparently doesn't apply. It is indeed relevant.



Theoretically possible if their flight was a "part 91" charter, but unlikely. Part 91 is non-commercial. Most of the private charter flights that can be hired like this are "part 135," and they are subject to the mandate.

https://privatejetcardcomparisons.c...xtends-to-private-jet-charters-and-terminals/


https://freebeacon.com/democrats/unmasked-texas-dems-defy-biden/


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> They chartered a private jet, not a commercial jet, so the federal mask mandate apparently doesn't apply. It is indeed relevant.



The virus doesn't know if the jet is private or commercial.

Either 15 people on a Jet going through an airport need masks or they don't.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> What a bullshit meaningless platitude, they are fighting voter ID which 70-95% of the public supports across polls.
> 
> Everyone has a right to believe the elections have integrity, not just your partisan camp.


There's a lot more in the bill than just voter ID.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/16/politics/texas-voting-restrictions-whats-in-the-bills/index.html

In fact, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but is voter ID even in the Texas bill? I haven't checked, and I think the state already has a voter ID law.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

*Mail-in ballot restrictions. *Identification requirements for mail-in ballots would include requiring the last four digits of a Social Security number or a driver's license number on all vote-by-mail applications and ballot return envelopes. 


*Drive-thru voting ban. *Each polling place in Texas would be "located inside a building" and "No voter may cast a vote from inside a motor vehicle" unless they met specific requirements. 



*Early voting hours. *Early voting would be prohibited at polling locations statewide "earlier than 6 a.m. or later than 9 p.m."
*Tracking software. *Election officials in large counties would be required to monitor "all input and activity" on voting machines via tracking software. 



*Video recording and livestream protocol. *Election officials in large counties would be required to set up video surveillance systems, with livestreams made available to certain counties.
*Assistance restrictions. *Anyone who "simultaneously assists three or more voters" would be required to fill out a form detailing their relationship to the voters and whether they're being paid by a political campaign or committee. 


All reasonable, expected and necessary.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Theoretically possible if their flight was a "part 91" charter, but unlikely. Part 91 is non-commercial. Most of the private charter flights that can be hired like this are "part 135," and they are subject to the mandate.
> 
> https://privatejetcardcomparisons.c...xtends-to-private-jet-charters-and-terminals/
> 
> ...


You could be right, but everything I'm reading, including the news article in the first post of the thread, says it was private, not public.

Regardless, see my earlier point about the need for mask mandates and public conveyance. This wasn't an example of public conveyance, whether or not they technically should have been wearing masks (and it looks like there was no mask requirement).


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## smf (Jul 19, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> 'AP reports Democrats fleeing Texas to avoid voting on election integrity contracted Covid. Luckily they were fully Vaccinated, therefore the symptoms were negligable.'
> 
> Fixed it for ya.



I don't think anyone cares about their symptoms, it's the symptoms of the people they infect that is the problem.

And the vaccine only increases the chances of the symptoms being negligible. You can require hospitalization even if you have been double vaccinated and you can also die.

In the UK for example the majority of serious cases are people who have been vaccinated.

Of course the fake reaction of the republicans who claim to be appalled is absolutely ridiculous.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

smf said:


> In the UK for example the majority of serious cases are people who have been vaccinated.



Do you have statistics on that one? I've never heard it before.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> *Mail-in ballot restrictions. *Identification requirements for mail-in ballots would include requiring the last four digits of a Social Security number or a driver's license number on all vote-by-mail applications and ballot return envelopes.
> 
> 
> *Drive-thru voting ban. *Each polling place in Texas would be "located inside a building" and "No voter may cast a vote from inside a motor vehicle" unless they met specific requirements.
> ...



Many of these would do nothing to fight against alleged voter fraud.
There is no evidence that widespread voter fraud exists.
Many of these are not reasonable and create unnecessary burdens for no reason other than making voting more difficult, such as assistance restrictions.
You seem to have cherry-picked the restrictions that seem more palatable, but you excluded things like partisan poll watcher protection. I suppose that means you agree there are things in the bills that are not "reasonable, expected, and necessary."
Please concede my previous statement that this is not, as you incorrectly stated, merely an issue "about voter ID." Even though voter ID laws also make voting unnecessarily more cumbersome and affect different people from different political groups inconsistently, that is not what the Texas bills are about.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Many of these would.....



Thank you for listing this out. I really didn't want to waste my own energy on this person.

He doesn't seem to understand that since there is or has ever been evidence of widespread voter fraud, there are no reasons to make voting more difficult than it already is. It's all for the sake of supression.



jimbo13 said:


> So is gun ownership, we still check IDs and tell felons to fuck off



The difference being, voting doesn't kill anyone. Kind of important to keep that in context of what right is being infringed on.

Also, if you really want to get technical, it's only regulated militias which are supposed to have guns. So not quite as wide-spread as voting is meant to be. The founders didn't want EVERYONE to have a gun, but they wanted everyone to vote.

But hey, what do I care about gun control? I live in Japan, the most safe country in the world when it comes to gun deaths.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

smf said:


> Of course the fake reaction of the republicans who claim to be appalled is absolutely ridiculous.



I am not appalled by them being maskless or traveling,   I am appalled by the perpetual hypocrisy of Progressive Democrats like Pelosi, Lightfoot, Newsom, Whitmere and this bunch supporting nonsense mandates & guide lines and continually getting caught flaunting their impositions they institute on citizens.



Lacius said:


> You seem to have cherry-picked the redirections that seem more palatable, but you excluded things like partisan poll watcher protection. I suppose that means you agree there are things in the bills that are not "reasonable, expected, and necessary."



I cherry picked nothing, I pasted the entirety Senate bill 1 listed on the CNN article, paste it yourself instead of hiding from it if you don't like my formatting.

Surveillance streams and making "Vote assistants" fill out a form to disclose they are a paid ballot harvester is not an imposition if they are helping numerous people are basically working a shift in a polling station.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



titan_tim said:


> Also, if you really want to get technical, it's only regulated militias which are supposed to have guns. So not quite as wide-spread as voting is meant to be. The founders didn't want EVERYONE to have a gun, but they wanted everyone to vote.



Ballots are more dangerous than guns, if you don't qualify for a firearm you don't qualify for a ballot.

And "Well regulated militia" meant the public needs to be able to aim, read a history book and learn the vernacular of the time.  This is why they don't teach you fucking dunces cursive anymore.


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## smf (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I am appalled by the perpetual hypocrisy of Progressive Democrats like Pelosi, Lightfoot, Newsom, Whitmere and this bunch supporting nonsense mandates & guide lines and continually getting caught flaunting their impositions they institute on citizens.



"Look at them without a mask" and
"The hypocrisy of them not wearing a mask when they ask me to"

are two separate arguments. The first one will get cut through with democrats, the second will get cut through with republicans.

They always choose to pretend they are outraged for maximum effect.

I don't believe they actually broke any rules though.


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## titan_tim (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> And "Well regulated militia" meant the public needs to be able to aim, read a history book and learn the vernacular of the time.  This is why they don't teach you fucking dunces cursive anymore.



LOL, for someone who had to google the definition of negligible, and STILL seems to have issues with the correct usage of "Your" vs. "You're" and "Their" vs. "They're", you're quite uppity 

Also, no. That's just what the NRA is cramming down your throat to parrot to people like a good zombie. Now go eat some more glue in the corner 

Also ballots are more dangerous than a gun?! LOL! Sure thing there goober  If I had to guess, I'd say you were about 16-18 years old, and have to listen to your daddy just rant every night about the libs ruining the country. I pitty that life.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I cherry picked nothing, I pasted the entirety Senate bill 1 listed on the CNN article, paste it yourself instead of hiding from it if you don't like my formatting.


No, you didn't:


> *What’s in Senate Bill 1?*
> 
> Partisan poll watcher protection. Partisan poll watchers would enjoy broad new protection and access in Texas. This includes being “entitled to sit or stand near enough to see and hear the activity.” Effectively, the bill makes it illegal to obstruct or create distance for poll watchers in any way while also giving poll watchers more legal recourse against election officials.
> Voting rights activists for months have sounded alarms about empowering partisan poll watchers and expanding voter challenges, arguing it could lead to voter intimidation.
> ...



The partisan poll watcher protections are some of the most controversial things in the bill. Among other things, they would make it difficult for election officials to remove "observers" for bad behavior like voter intimidation.

Also, please concede my previous statement that this is not, as you incorrectly stated, merely an issue "about voter ID." I'm not going to allow this to be a conversation where you quickly change the subject each time you're proven wrong.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> The virus doesn't know if the jet is private or commercial.


My point was that the law cares.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> I don't think anyone cares about their symptoms, it's the symptoms of the people they infect that is the problem.
> 
> And the vaccine only increases the chances of the symptoms being negligible. You can require hospitalization even if you have been double vaccinated and you can also die.
> 
> ...


Vaccines do several things:

They reduce the odds of being infected with the disease.
They reduce the odds of spreading disease, even if you have a breakthrough infection.
They reduce the likelihood of severe symptoms in a breakthrough infection.
They reduce the likelihood of death in a breakthrough infection.
I can't find any data that "the majority of serious cases are people who have been vaccinated." Did you mean to say "unvaccinated"?


----------



## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> The reality is Dems have waves, but Conservatism isn't going anywhere it's a simple matter of time and age.


Every political ideology has waves of higher support and lower support. That's one of the reasons why party control swings back and forth like a pendulum. However, nearly every Democratic policy position I can think of has majority support from the American public: Climate change, reproductive rights, healthcare, LGBT rights, income inequality issues, racial issues, taxation, Medicare, Social Security, foreign policy, war, etc. These issues and more all have majority support on the Democratic side, and it has been this way for decades. The United States is, despite popular belief, a progressive country. It's because of anti-democratic systems that it isn't more obvious in government.

As I said earlier, Republicans are so unpopular that all non-incumbent Republicans (and relevantly, one incumbent Republican loser in 2020 named Donald Trump) have lost the popular vote in every presidential election after 1988. In my entire life, I have literally never seen a non-incumbent Republican win the popular vote in a presidential election, and that should be unsettling for any American who believes in conservatism as a political ideology.


----------



## smf (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I can't find any data that "the majority of serious cases are people who have been vaccinated." Did you mean to say "unvaccinated"?



No, but the tipping point hasn't been reached for cases yet, just deaths. I can't find data on serious cases by vaccinated/unvaccinated.

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-half-covid-19-cases-had-vaccine-study-zoe-delta-2021-7?r=US&IR=T

https://theconversation.com/most-co...ated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671

and of course I'm talking UK, rather than US, but it was to prove the point that vaccination isn't a guarantee.

88% have had a first dose, while 68% have had a second dose. 47% of current cases have had at least one dose. We don't know if the other 12% have already had covid and are naturally immune, or whether they are living in a low covid area or are ultra cautious. Maybe the vaccinated are more reckless.

Looking at the graphs for hospital admissions it seems to cut by 1/10th if you look back to when cases were at similar levels, but we've just exited lockdown and they estimate our cases were already doubling every three weeks. So in three months we might have hospital admissions at a level where we previously went into lockdown, just in time for flu season.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> AP reports Democrats fleeing Texas to avoid voting on election integrity contracted Covid despite being Vaccinated.
> 
> https://www.chron.com/politics/article/Virus-Outbreak-Runaway-Lawmakers-16321727.php
> 
> ...


Are you shocked that fully vaccinated people can still get the virus? They already made it clear from the start that you can still get it after vaccination, but if you do, it will be milder and easier to recover from. In fact, in the US right now, nearly all Covid deaths occur in the unvaccinated: https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187


----------



## SG854 (Jul 19, 2021)

smf said:


> No, but the tipping point hasn't been reached for cases yet, just deaths. I can't find data on serious cases by vaccinated/unvaccinated.
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-half-covid-19-cases-had-vaccine-study-zoe-delta-2021-7?r=US&IR=T
> 
> ...


Many of them are 1 dose vaccination


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## jimbo13 (Jul 20, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Also ballots are more dangerous than a gun?! LOL! Sure thing there goober



Looks like this immature brat doesn't understand the concept of "The Pen is mightier than the sword".





Lacius said:


> However, nearly every Democratic policy position I can think of has majority support from the American public: Climate change, reproductive rights, healthcare, LGBT rights, income inequality issues, racial issues, taxation, Medicare, Social Security, foreign policy, war, etc. These issues and more all have majority support on the Democratic side, and it has been this way for decades. The United States is, despite popular belief, a progressive country. It's because of anti-democratic systems that it isn't more obvious in government.



You are conflating people gravitating to platitudes with support for Democrat positions.  Not the same thing.

Environmental concern is universally non partisan, that does not default as support for Democratic proposals like carbon taxes.

Abortion issues are 50/50 according to Gallup. There is no overwhelming support or consensus on issues such late term, tax payer funding state vs federal etc.  The number of people identifying as "prolife" edges out "choice" out by a slight majority
https://news.gallup.com/poll/313094/americans-abortion-views-steady-past-year.aspx

Whose opposing healthcare reform?  Democrats opted not to engage single payer when they had a majority in '08.  When Trump eliminated Obama's "Mandate & fine" it was popular.

Republicans wanting to eliminate Social security & medicare is a lie.

Progressives have no recent record against a non interventionist foreign policy or being anti-war anymore.  Clinton & Obama both engaged the U.S in new conflicts. Biden has supported every military campaign we have had since entering public life, his votes in the Senate have universally been in the affirmative and extended the Afghanistan withdrawal date past Trumps pull out.  Trump was very aggressive pulling us out of Bush incs. wars, (that HRC & Biden voted for).  Trump is the first President in my life time that did not engage the U.S in a new foreign conflict.

The two most prominent Doves in the Senate are Paul and Sanders, is Sanders a democrat this week?  The Democrat party went out of their way to disenfranchise Tulsi Gabbard & Sanders who held classic anti-war foreign policy positions.  Non interventionism is a classical conservative libertarian position, Both parties have plenty of doves & (to many) hawks.​

We do have many "anti-democratic systems" because population centers such as California were never intended to lord over people in Montana. We are not a collectivist society and our government was designed to ensure individual rights in the face of collectivists and to maintain local determination.

Identification of platitudes does not equate to support for democrat proposals on paper, there is no policy monopoly as you claim on these issues.


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## titan_tim (Jul 20, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Looks like this immature brat doesn't understand the concept of "The Pen is mightier than the sword".


That idiom is talking about an independant press or administrative power, not a single vote to put people in power. Stop bastardizing the meaning, while trying to sound like a pseudo-intelectual. It's quite transparent. 



jimbo13 said:


> Environmental concern is universally non partisan, that does not default as support for Democratic proposals like carbon taxes.
> 
> Abortion issues are 50/50 according to Gallup.


You're talking about support within the population. Which yes, I would HOPE most people would be for. But still, as you said, it comes down to what's on paper that counts, right? And the republican lead states have been quite happy to roll back or eliminate environmental protections, and create draconian anti-abortion bills to placate to the religious right. 



jimbo13 said:


> Whose opposing healthcare reform?  Democrats opted not to engage single payer when they had a majority in '08.  When Trump eliminated Obama's "Mandate & fine" it was popular.


I'm not even American, and I know that Obama was attempting to work together with the Republicans even though he had the house and senate during his first year. And yet, McConnell said outright that he was going to stop ANYTHING that Obama tried to do. Pretty blatant. At least they got Obama Care through in the end. 



jimbo13 said:


> Republicans wanting to eliminate Social security & medicare is a lie.


Pretty blatant strawman there. Nobody said they were trying to "eliminate" social security. They WERE/ARE very focused on making enormous cuts to it. Even The Hill, which is more right leaning was against the last aministration's plans:
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-...-against-administrations-dangerous-assault-on

For Trump's war record, I don't really mind it. Him talking to Jung Un, while it was quite cringe-worthy ("We fell in love"), was a step in the right direction. He was absolutely weak when it came to Putin, but we all know why. It still didn't stop him from fueling the military budget, but hey, whatever. But I guess it would be bad if the military was to ever run out of bullets again...

Now you've touched on a couple highly popular positions which the progressives have supported for a long time, and only mentioned that the Republican public are also kind of in favor of those mentioned. There's also LBGTQ rights, and gun control, which the vast majority are also in favor of. And yet that's the hill that the Republican politicans are willing to die on.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 20, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> He was absolutely weak when it came to Putin, but we all know why. It still didn't stop him from fueling the military budget, but hey, whatever. But I guess it would be bad if the military was to ever run out of bullets again...
> 
> There's also LBGTQ rights, and gun control, which the vast majority are also in favor of.



Nonsense, Trump implemented economic sanctions on Russia which Biden has already rolled back.

It's strawman-ish because Lacius, much like you are citing platitudes & concepts that have support, not policy.

"Gun control" & "Identity rights" are not policies, they are undefined platitudes.

I support Gun control, when defining it as trigger discipline & using both hands.  Doesn't mean I support any of the nonsense bullshit that comes out of progressive mouths who you can tell has never touched a firearm the second they start speaking.

My children carry a rifle to and from school everyday with a bear load chambered, safety off.  The staff wouldn't let them walk home without it and rightfully so, because Bear, Bison, Moose & elk attacks are all common here.

Are you trained on what to do when a grizzly charges?  Can you tell the difference between a Bluff charge and a bear that intends to attack?  My 12 year old can, she bluffed a grizz down last season without hurting it BTW as most people here can. 

The vast majority of my community open or conceal carries and it is far safer than where anyone calling for gun control lives.

These people don't live or belong in my community and haven't the slightest clue what they are talking about.  Progressives in overcrowded cesspools who can't behave themselves have no business making policy for Montana.


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## Lacius (Jul 20, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Looks like this immature brat doesn't understand the concept of "The Pen is mightier than the sword".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Republican Party is filled with climate change deniers, including the former president.

About 60% of Americans favor abortion being legal in this country.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...bortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/

Republicans have no solutions on healthcare. They largely want to repeal Obamacare, they tried and failed to repeal Obamacare, and they offer no alternative to Obamacare. Republican states were overwhelmingly suing to invalidate Obamacare as recently as this year and last, during a pandemic. Republicans also oppose all meaningful changes to healthcare, including but not limited to single payer and/or a public option.

Republicans consistently try to effectively dismantle social programs like Social Security and Medicare. George W. Bush tried and failed to privatize Social Security, and the Republicans attempted to dismantle Medicare as we know it back during Obama's presidency. It was in the party platform. They've moved on to the strategy of chipping these programs away piece by piece through incremental cuts so nobody notices, since what they're doing is unpopular. It's verifiable fact that Republicans broadly want to at least make cuts to these programs.

I agree that there are military hawks on both sides, but the only anti-war voices I've heard are from the political left. Trump didn't actually pull is out of conflicts, he escalated pre-existing conflicts, and he was responsible for an increase in negligent behavior that results in more civilian deaths. You don't have to go back very far (the George W. Bush administration) to some of the worst foreign policy that ever existed, and despite some foolish initial votes, Democrats were consistently against the Republican war doctrine when it became clear that the wars were misguided, based on lies, and without an exit strategy. When you look at who voted against military authorization, you will see those votes come from the left. When you look at who ends wars and conflicts, you will see those presidents are Democratic. Those presidents include Obama and Biden.

Even if you were to remove anti-democratic systems like the electoral college, an unrepresentative Senate, etc., California would not "rule over Montana." That's not how a democratic system works. Over 6 million Californians voted for Trump in the 2020 election, and their votes would count in a democratic election too.


----------



## titan_tim (Jul 20, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Nonsense, Trump implemented economic sanctions on Russia which Biden has already rolled back.


He made sanctions on multiple single people who were proven to have meddled in the election. Kind of expected. He also immediately attempted to roll back sanctions that Obama put in place against Russia for the issue with Ukraine and also the election meddling.



jimbo13 said:


> "Gun control" & "Identity rights" are not policies, they are undefined platitudes.


No they aren't. They have had policy inacted across the country. It's now possible for gay people to be married in most states. 14 states still don't allow it. In Montana, you can! So, well done!

Also gun control has been defined multiple times with bills which would introduce common sense laws. They were always shot down by Republicans though. Like did you know that Iowa allows people who are legally or completely bind to buy a gun? I think you can agree that needs a bit of reforming.

Honestly, I'm fairly right leaning when it comes to guns. I enjoy them! If I were to live in the US, I'd potentially feel the need for one. Your kids needing guns to go to school is a badass story. Good for them, seriously! I'm sure they've had EXTENSIVE training, and are reminded multiple times of how to handle their weapons. I'm sure if they come in the house and they don't put the safety on, you get extremly angry at them. I WISH people were as responsible as you are with your weapons. I WISH there was a way to force people to be that responsible.

People love to point to Switzerland as having a perfect balance of gun ownership and low fatality rate. I'm all for it! But they also have to go through training and proper care of the guns. That place is a gun utopia where things work. Whenever I visit the US, I'm always sickened by the gun porn on the highways. Just bilboard after bilboard of gun shops. The amount of money that these shops are raking in at the cost of human suffering is just horrible.

The only problem is, the Republicans need to admit that there is a problem in the first place. Instead, they're doubling-down and saying that things MUST stay the same.


----------



## Immortallix (Jul 20, 2021)

@jimbo13 its no use man. They'll never not be able to move the goalposts


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## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

Immortallix said:


> @jimbo13 its no use man. They'll never not be able to move the goalposts


You mean we'll never _cross_ the goal, assuming that goal is to save idiots from inflicting severe disease and/or death on themselves.  I guess that's Darwinism for you, though.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## titan_tim (Jul 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> You mean we'll never _cross_ the goal, assuming that goal is to save idiots from inflicting severe disease and/or death on themselves.  I guess that's Darwinism for you, though.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Was wondering about that also. I was thinking that he meant that we wouldn't STOP moving the goalposts. But that wouldn't really make sense, since there really hasn't been an example of that happening.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> About 60% of Americans favor abortion being legal in this country.
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...bortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/



Legal does not represent free reign, tax payer funded, federalized or any of the minutia which is closer represented in the Gallup poll I cited, which asks the question at least 10 different ways.



> Republicans have no solutions on healthcare.



Hyperbole much?  Nonsense partisan rambling,  "Mandate & Fine" is not a healthcare plan either.  Everyone supported pre-existing condition protections for the most part.



> Republicans consistently try to effectively dismantle social programs like Social Security and Medicare.



More partisan hyperbole, they have never introduced a bill to do away with either.  Cutting payroll taxes and letting people opt is not dismantling.


> I agree that there are military hawks on both sides, but the only anti-war voices I've heard are from the political left. Trump didn't actually pull is out of conflicts, he escalated pre-existing conflicts, and he was responsible for an increase in negligent behavior that results in more civilian deaths. You don't have to go back very far (the George W. Bush administration) to some of the worst foreign policy that ever existed, and despite some foolish initial votes, Democrats were consistently against the Republican war doctrine when it became clear that the wars were misguided, based on lies, and without an exit strategy. When you look at who voted against military authorization, you will see those votes come from the left. When you look at who ends wars and conflicts, you will see those presidents are Democratic. Those presidents include Obama and Biden.



The image of hippies with peace signs is ingrained in the culture, which was a liberal movement.  Liberalism in the modern progressive DNC is dead and their record does not match the nostalgia.
*
I will be limiting to the major conflicts post WWII.. I don't think anyone really arguing the justification for that anymore.

Jun 50  American enters Korea.   -  Harry S Truman.  DEMOCRAT
Jul 53   America exits Korea.       -   Dwight Eisenhower   Republican*  (Dwight was technically independent, Ala Bernie sanders.  VP, political allies nomination were GOP)

Aug 64 America enters Vietnam.  - Lydon Johnson.  DEMOCRAT
Jan 73 America exits Vietnam.     - Richard Nixon.     REPUBLICAN

HW Bush Operation Desert storm
Clinton Bosnia, Serbia, Haiti  
I am going  =/= on the score cards here out of fairness and the depth of minutia, to much wiggle room and partisan    hyperbole I don't feel like delving in to.
*​ 
Now the modern conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq I have no affection or defense of George W Bush, but Obama who started a new war in Libya and at various points reauthorized every action HW Bush took and institutes those policies with support from the democratic party.   

*Trump vehemently opposed the Iraq war & Afghanistan well before he was a candidate.  And you can spew all the partisan rhetoric and spin doctoring you want.*

*Donald Trumps signature is on the Afghanistan and Iraq withdrawal.
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/

When it came to take our troops out of that shit hole and it was on his desk TRUMP signed it, not Obama, not Biden.  Biden extended Trumps deadline.

In defense of the GOP they have rejected George W Bush's foreign policy, evident by that wings hatred of Trump and Trumps foreign policy trouncing Jeb Bush despite him being anointed.*

Dubya, is not my brand, never has been.  Clinton and Bush are more closely aligned than modern Trump-era GOP.

Remember when MSNBC shit canned Olbermann, Donahue & Ventura for not carrying water for Bush's war? I do.  That's your democrat party right there.  Same party that mocked the Kucinich's, Sanders and Gabbard's.

Yes, classical Liberalism has a strong anti-war vein, that is not represented by the modern Democrat party anywhere in the leadership or by anyone who has ever been put in to power to do something about it.




> Even if you were to remove anti-democratic systems like the electoral college, an unrepresentative Senate, etc., California would not "rule over Montana." That's not how a democratic system works. Over 6 million Californians voted for Trump in the 2020 election, and their votes would count in a democratic election too.



We have a Union of states that never agreed to or joined a system of pure democracy and the only places interested in a system like that are population centers on the coast and cry babies who can't shove their wishes down peoples throats who don't want them.

Being a mob does not make you correct or entitled.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> What did they lie about? You DO know that vaccines don't make you immune to what you've been vaccinated for, right?



I thought this was sarcasm, but shit. Those who are so defensive of this vaccine and its rollout  (a totally new type of vaccine btw, never used en masse before) are blinded by politics/beliefs. Lots of people, who won't be commenting here - I'm usually one of them, know this. I met a lot of people during my time working, mostly liberal because I am an older programmer. What I will talk about is inconsistency, and this has been just that from day one. Most people are very turned off by such things, and lose trust in those who do it. I am by todays definitions a 'conservative' guy - what that means today, depending who you ask, might net dozens of different answers from - 'yatzi, racist, homophobe, gun freak, climate denialists, war mongers'.. endless insults on peoples character you usually know almost nothing about but they are at the very least, "traditional" people. "Conservarive", just like "Liberal", has millions of "slivers" of belief systems, since we are a two party country and essentially forced to vote in a way we agree w/ "more".  Lesser of two evils. To me, it means maintaining a way of life I am familiar with (not everything!), but i.e. I am involved in a local Church, I shoot competitively, I do volunteer work, I donate money to humanitarian causes. Would never bring up that latter fact as charity is not something you brag about, but we are in a terrible place where many don't get treated as human beings - and I say this of both sides.  I don't believe in everything a 'religious person' believes in. I do think we are warming the planet. I believe in evolution. etc. I am not the only exception.

As someone who's lived through 40+ years of different presidents - and voted both ways, especially locally! - the Overton Window has come so far left it has me at a point where I've almost taken a 'hold the line' type of perspective when I hear of any initiative (or just done behind the scenes w/o asking usually!) to give anyone more power. Which scares me, I usually like to study any proposition before making a decision. This country is far from perfect, but having done a of travel I can honestly say I would not want to live anywhere else. I love this country - even people I disagree with, I realize most of them love it too and even though we disagree, I was once doing the same thing as them when I was younger. I think many - not those screaming outside buildings - are helping people, and do help people via real world actions. Both sides are guilty - online we are e-thugs, aside from those who take politics to the point of highly organized violence (looking at you Antifa - dared to eat dinner outside with my wife in DC and ended up w/ people screaming on megaphones and literally spitting at people for being white - there was no rally nearby, we were alone) and anyone on the right who shows up to counter protest a protest w/ the intention of causing trouble (business owners defending their own property, if cops won't do it, I don't see much other option) but do you really treat real human beings like this?   I ran a BBS in middle school, I trolled very hard. I was 11 years old - if you want your opinion, which we all have, to be taken seriously, don't be a dick and at least TRY to be civil with people. I know its hard these days, and I really hope this post doesn't come across like I'm only taking a right-leaning side - which I'm pretty certain based on previous social media interactions, a lot of people will take it as such.

All I'm saying is actions define you as a person, not words. Scientists especially, in high level positions, words matter very much - the CDC's constantly shifting goal posts, Fauci telling people he lied to us about masks early on so the ones that work got in the hands of medical staff first (why not just say this, science should be facts, not lies - even if his intention was good) , inconsistent claims about the vaccine - booster shot, re-infections, online censorship (!!) cheered on by people who cherished this right in the past. "Online fact checkers" - I ask where these people were before 2016? Does that make the entire thing totally bunk, of course not. But consistent messaging from consistent people is vital. 

We don't need monitoring / to be told what we are viewing is 'incorrect',  sarcasm was dying out before this, and now you risk bans for making jokes? Even if someone is serious, let them speak. I will never condone censoring anyone. Those who may deserve it - remember, they have families, children, they are someones child. It effects innocent people who may be doxed/threatened, or count on that persons paycheck to put food on the table. Many people I knew from vulnerability / exploitation development from the early 2000's who, like myself, couldn't believe something like the Patriot Act got signed to the applause of both sides of the aisle. Now, many are openly pro-censorship and pro FBI/NSA monitoring. I'm sorry for the long post and I am sorry if I am being so one sided, I honestly love anyone until they give me reason not to.  I wish more people could strive for understanding, not blanket labels, we need to put fires out not pour gas on existing ones or start new ones. I wish you all happiness, and success in life. God bless.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> the Overton Window has come so far left it has me at a point where I've almost taken a 'hold the line' type of perspective when I hear of any initiative (or just done behind the scenes w/o asking usually!) to give anyone more power


"The Overton Window has moved so far left that this country has never had and still doesn't have a leftist political party."

Makes total sense if you turn off your brain entirely.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "The Overton Window has moved so far left that this country has never had and still doesn't have a leftist political party."
> 
> Makes total sense if you turn off your brain entirely.



Insults, how productive.  You can blame 2 party system, which I went into detail about, as to why your "not left enough" utopia party doesn't exist. Why are Democrats the party of taking money from big corporations now?

Most public conservatives now embrace trans, gay.. Tomi Lahren etc. I will always treat people with respect but indoctrination is a major problem. I however don't want gay marriage in my Church. I'm not gay, and what we talk about is generally incompatible w/ modern gay/trans thought.  I also don't want racist ideaology like CRT to be taught to kids - thankfully mine are grown. Even when I was in college -  I knew if I wrote about certain things, I'd receive lavish praise vs. being berated by people like you. In a Maryland public University, in the 90s. Some kids of certain appearance didn't come to class, ever - and were always in the follow up classes. Professors were afraid of lawsuits - it's way beyond that now - simple disagreement w/ a teacher in class gets you removed/banned from the college now.

Slash on, brave online anime warrior. You can have the last word, naturally.


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## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Why are Democrats the party of taking money from big corporations now?


Both parties have always taken money from corporations. sometimes different corporations, sometimes the same ones.  Both parties are capitalist parties.



eastwald said:


> Most public conservatives now embrace trans, gay..


Correction: most conservatives embrace trans and gay people in public*, and hold very hateful views of them in private.



eastwald said:


> I also don't want racist ideaology like CRT to be taught to kids


Calling CRT "racist" is just reactionary bullshit.  It's a more complete teaching of America's history, that's all.



eastwald said:


> Even when I was in college - I knew if I wrote about certain things, I'd receive lavish praise vs. being berated by people like you. In a Maryland public University, in the 90s. Some kids of certain appearance didn't come to class, ever - and were always in the follow up classes. Professors were afraid of lawsuits - it's way beyond that now - simple disagreement w/ a teacher in class gets you removed/banned from the college now.


Ohh yeah I _totally_ agree, in my life as a white male I've been discriminated against _so_ many times, _especially_ by the police.


----------



## MariArch (Jul 20, 2021)

Question: why is there still mask mandates? especially on planes? if you wanted the vaccine then you've gotten it by now. The vaccinated are assessing their own risks and willing to take the potential consequences associated with said analysis. We don't need Places like LA County serving as big brother when it comes to masks to protect the unvaccinated. Nor should the fed be regulating airports. Virus isn't going to all of a sudden spread just because I enter an airport.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Both parties have always taken money from corporations. sometimes different corporations, sometimes the same ones.  Both parties are capitalist parties.
> Correction: most conservatives embrace trans and gay people in public*, and hold very hateful views of them in private.
> Calling CRT "racist" is just reactionary bullshit.  It's a more complete teaching of America's history, that's all.
> Ohh yeah I _totally_ agree, in my life as a white male I've been discriminated against _so_ many times, _especially_ by the police.
> ...



Last word, not last turd. With views like yours, that GIF will be you, forever. Enjoy it.

Learn about history and grow up. Your blanket assumptions and lack of historical knowledge present a white person with little to no knowledge of fellow intelligent humans, African Americans, showing you as a very confused racist. Talk to some black people - you very likely don't know any in real life, not people you actually are friends with at least.. and ask them what they think of CRT.

Captain know it all knows nothing. You'll reply. Internet anime warrior.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Last word


Yeah you do seem to want that pretty bad.



eastwald said:


> With views like yours, that GIF will be you, forever. Enjoy it.


Sorry I'm not as good at playing the victim card as you are.  I haven't put in near as much practice, clearly.



eastwald said:


> Learn about history and grow up.


"Unlearn real US history and learn the whitewashed version instead."



eastwald said:


> Internet anime warrior.


Bruh it's a video game character.  I'd expect you to know _at least _that on a gaming community forum.


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## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

HighJrLinoone said:


> Question: why is there still mask mandates? especially on planes? if you wanted the vaccine then you've gotten it by now. The vaccinated are assessing their own risks and willing to take the potential consequences associated with said analysis. We don't need Places like LA County serving as big brother when it comes to masks to protect the unvaccinated. Nor should the fed be regulating airports. Virus isn't going to all of a sudden spread just because I enter an airport.



Several reasons. They love virtue signaling, so the mask is a sign they're against the.. racist neo-nazis that are all over. It hides their face too so they can yell things at people and physically attack those who disagree with them like, actual nazis. Not in my current state, but where it's tolerated. If I could just have ONE day w/o seeing a white guy w/ a swastika on his forehead.. one day! A man can dream.

The vaccine has shown it to be, well, not a vaccine. It is and isn't at the same time. Which is why I'm waiting, like you. 99.8+% survival chance too make this comparison to Polio just.. awful for anyone who knew someone stricken by Polio.

Constantly shifting standards / mental gymnastics, basically.


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## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

HighJrLinoone said:


> Question: why is there still mask mandates? especially on planes?





eastwald said:


> Several reasons. They love virtue signaling, so the mask is a sign they're against the.. racist neo-nazis that are all over. It hides their face too so they can yell things at people and physically attack those who disagree with them like, actual nazis. Not in my current state, but where it's tolerated. If I could just have ONE day w/o seeing a white guy w/ a swastika on his forehead.. one day! A man can dream.


Now for the non-delusional answer: it's because planes have sealed cabins, the air is recycled.  Unless 100% of passengers are vaccinated, the odds of catching COVID on a plane go way up.


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## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Now for the non-delusional answer: it's because planes have sealed cabins, the air is recycled.  Unless 100% of passengers are vaccinated, the odds of catching COVID on a plane go way up.



"drooool now for the non-brain delusion answer from self-hating white guy whos super not racist! everyone else is but me!"

N-95 mask. Her point was- they are ''vaccinated" - shouldn't they be fine?  I've had covid, at my age and in good health, I was real tired for 2 days. Then I felt fine. everyones different, and for that largely obese population of 1%, people can wear a mask on the flight, on top of their vaccine. Have standards changed? You get a vaccine and its verstanden that you are getting a mild dose of it - simply put - to produce anti-bodies naturally. Natures way.  Vaccines for covid, so far, actually send code to the RNA (J&J aside, but thats pulled now bc of sides..) telling it how to fight it - again in simple terms. This is playing God almost, we are ignorant to think we can produce something as well as the human body can naturally.


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## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> "drooool now for the non-brain delusion answer from self-hating white guy whos super not racist! everyone else is but me!"


Nah I'm not completely self-unaware like you, I've said and done racist things in my life.  Part of growing up is owning up to your mistakes and learning from them, which is why it's so sad that many conservatives have an overactive fear response that retards that mental and emotional growth.



eastwald said:


> N-95 mask.


Yes that works well, but any mask is better than none in an enclosed space with recycled air.


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## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nah I'm not completely self-unaware like you, I've said and done racist things in my life.  Part of growing up is owning up to your mistakes and learning from them, which is why it's so sad that many conservatives have an overactive fear response that retards that mental and emotional growth.
> 
> Yes that works well, but any mask is better than none in an enclosed space with recycled air.



I also was racist for a period of life, 9th grade - went to all black school. Had to friend w/ people I first learned the concept of skin color hate. You edit my quotes peacemeal, like most your type do, to reduce the effectiveness of prior sentences / words / context. So this will likely just be me quoted saying "I was racist for a period", then you can stretch the timeline out of 9th grade and characterize what I said differently.  I got picked on by more White kids at a ~50% black school to start with, so my logic was gone off the bat.

We were taught at my age, that it didn't matter. We treat each other the same - and help those in need.  Our government social programs are vast.  History needs a rewrite? Is that so? Did you know history goes far beyond when races even met, and early interactions were always bad. Slavery and Prostitution are two of the oldest and dirtiest "jobs" for a long time. You think slavery was just the transatlantic slave trade? Do you know how many people actually owned slaves compared to the rich? That ~half of the slave boats were owned by British companies, the Africans were happy to sell their own people off, they were going to be slaves in Africa said the Kings who got rich doing this to their own people.  The Arab slave trade just ended in 1990. Last country to end it, I think it was 1970 the second last. 

You think Black people don't have affirmative action? They are 13% and commit about 55% of all homicide - really, that is 6% since it's most all men. Right after the civil rights act was enacted, the number of kids growing outside of fatherless homes shot up over 70%. There are factors in the black community, that people like you, will never be honest enough w/ someone to talk about because you think they will be offended, are uneducated. I have some of the best personal conversations with my brothers and they are not as dumb as you think. Generations of welfare has hurt many families really bad, and they are in a bad way most of the time. It's not your fault and doing your generations common reverse - racism segregation graduations is not fucking cool at all. 

There's a youtube video by Denzel Washington - why only 3% of people are super successful. You should watch it. Stop hating yourself and thinking every white person before you was some 'absent brain'ed fool', as you contain all the wisdom of your.. let me guess many years, and are here to imbue us. You're a joke man.


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## Xzi (Jul 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> We were taught at my age, that it didn't matter. We treat each other the same - and help those in need. Our government social programs are vast.


Yeah...modern conservatives don't believe in any of this.  So you probably should've switched affiliations or gone independent some time ago.



eastwald said:


> History needs a rewrite? Is that so?


History does not need a re-write, history needs to be uncensored and taught in its entirety.  Lies of omission are still lies.



eastwald said:


> You think Black people don't have affirmative action? They are 13% and commit about 55% of all homicide - really, that is 6% since it's most all men.


"You think black people don't have affirmative action?  Look at all the crimes borne primarily of poverty and desperation that they're arrested for."  Not sure if I'm supposed to respond to that or if it was just meant to help prove my point.



eastwald said:


> Right after the civil rights act was enacted, the number of kids growing outside of fatherless homes shot up over 70%.


You know what they say: the North won the Civil War, but the South won reconstruction.  A lot of effort went into keeping African-Americans in impoverished communities over the decades.  Reagan was one of the worst in that regard.



eastwald said:


> There's a youtube video by Denzel Washington - why only 3% of people are super successful.


TLDW: Because capitalism is failing us, and by design the American economy is no longer what it used to be.


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## Lacius (Jul 20, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Legal does not represent free reign, tax payer funded, federalized or any of the minutia which is closer represented in the Gallup poll I cited, which asks the question at least 10 different ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We're getting wildly off-topic, and it's largely my fault, so I will just say that my original point was that Republicans and Republican positions are unpopular in this country, and the fact that you're trying to gaslight us into believing Republicans hold Democratic positions, instead of defending Republicans positions, is telling. We just had a Republican president, for example, who said his court appointments were with the explicit purpose of overturning Roe v. Wade.

If you want to continue having a conversation about any or all of these topics, do it over a private message, or tag me in an on-topic thread.


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## Deleted User (Jul 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We're getting wildly off-topic, and it's largely my fault, so I will just say that my original point was that Republicans and Republican positions are unpopular in this country, and the fact that you're trying to gaslight us into believing Republicans hold Democratic positions, instead of defending Republicans positions, is telling. We just had a Republican president, for example, who said his court appointments were with the explicit purpose of overturning Roe v. Wade.
> 
> If you want to continue having a conversation about any or all of these topics, do it over a private message, or tag me in an on-topic thread.



I sure as hell will never argue that Republicans hold Democrat positions and I'm unapologetic about it. Look at the places Democrats run - states throw money into cities with no results, you have all the complaints and no answers but yelling at your opposition and pretending you aren't turning into a 1984 style Totalitarian style platform. Conservatives damn well have moved left, so have Democrats and this is a matter of fact. Both Obama and Clinton were against gay marriage in 2008.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...a/president-barack-obamas-shift-gay-marriage/

I was still voting Democrat when he ran the first time. Things changed slowly.  Zoom to now, people change gender several times a day, have pro-nouns (and you better get them right!!), got a fuckin' deer in charge of Twitch.tv moderation - do you think gaming sites reflect politics as a whole? I come here mostly for my son,I had a nintendo and will play now and then but I'm about to retire and work a lot. Democrats just talk about racism all day - mostly white people, which is why you've seen losses in minority voting groups in past elections. "Equity of outcome". This is anti-evolution and silly.  People are not going to end up in the same places and 'making sure of this' is why we are not even top 20 in the world in Math.  China's workers aren't on Twitter asking to be called a Ram or Deer, Steer, I mean this is like a circus come to life.  Estranged minority voters will keep spiking and 2020 would have been a loss (generally if you lose even 1% of black vote it's game over) if not for Trump's big mouth on Twitter and the emasculation of men in schools.

You'll be in for a surprise in 2022 if you think your party has things we need to advertise as agreeing with, many of you are openly hateful of the country, and young people usually don't vote in large numbers unless a ballot is mailed to them (I smoked pot in college too - it happens).  You're telling black people they are too dumb to have ID, when these voter acts have 80% approval in the cities. My friend texts me what seems like every day joking about being stuck at check out or somewhere w/ a computer and needing my white skillz to bail him out. They make fun of you guys.

Emulate or try to act like we agree with your "party". Naahhhh.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We're getting wildly off-topic, and it's largely my fault, so I will just say that my original point was that Republicans and Republican positions are unpopular in this country, and the fact that you're trying to gaslight us into believing Republicans hold Democratic positions, instead of defending Republicans positions, is telling. We just had a Republican president, for example, who said his court appointments were with the explicit purpose of overturning Roe v. Wade.
> 
> If you want to continue having a conversation about any or all of these topics, do it over a private message, or tag me in an on-topic thread.




I wouldn't want to defend the democrats and Biden's continual warmongering either.   Obama had 8 years to sign a withdrawl from Iraq and Afghanistan.  Trump's signature is on those.

I never said or implied Republicans hold Democrat policy positions, I said Democrats do not have a monopoly on any of the policy free platitudes you are invoking.


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## smf (Jul 20, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Many of them are 1 dose vaccination



I don't know if any single dose vaccines have been rolled out in the uk, the first was approved a month ago.


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