# PC Games section full of warez



## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

It seems a lot of the games in the PC section are full commercial titles (warez), many of which are still being sold online at various sites. For example:
Alone in the Dark 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Star Control II (GoG.com)
Blood (GoG.com)
Descent 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Doom 1 (Steam)
Doom 2 (Steam)
Duke3D (GoG.com)

I'm sure there's many more, those are just what I found within a few minutes of looking. Even the games that aren't being sold anywhere today are still copyright and should not be hosted; new "old" games appear on GoG all the time. I suggest the entire section be taken offline until the legality of each individual game is checked.


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2012)

Filetrip now holds abandonware, those files have been discussed before and have been approved for upload.


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## Deleted_171835 (Sep 22, 2012)

If it's being sold on Steam, is it really abandonware then?


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## MelodieOctavia (Sep 22, 2012)

I don't think Alone in the Dark, Doom series, nor Duke Nukem is abandonware.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

How is it "abandonware" if it's still being sold? Where is this previous discussion?


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2012)

tueidj said:


> How is it "abandonware" if it's still being sold? Where is this previous discussion?


This was discussed by the Staff.

There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
http://www.amazon.co...r+scrolls+arena

Abandonware is a rather vague grey area, but we deemed any game that requires Dos to play are OK to upload.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

Well I think the staff have been misled. How is this any different from hosting ROMs which are still sold today as virtual console games?


The Catboy said:


> There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
> http://www.amazon.co...r+scrolls+arena


That may be, but it's not the case for these games is it? Several of the hosted downloads even still contain readme.txt files saying they are not allowed to be redistributed.


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2012)

tueidj said:


> Well I think the staff have been misled. How is this any different from hosting ROMs which are still sold today as virtual console games?
> 
> 
> The Catboy said:
> ...


As I said, there was a discussion over this, it was deemed that any file that requires DOS to operate are OK to upload. There was also a lengthy discussion between myself and Costello about how we will handle them. Then a new rule was instated and posted right at the top of the game section


> Abandonware games are games that were released a long, long time ago (in our galaxy though) but that are no longer commercially exploited, more generally games that were "abandoned" by their publisher. They can generally be downloaded freely and safely, but for most games you will need an MS-DOS emulator such as DosBox.


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## Urza (Sep 22, 2012)

The term "abandonware" has no legal meaning.

You are uploading copyrighted files that you hope nobody will file complaints about since they're old. No different from ROM dumps of console games.


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## Thesolcity (Sep 22, 2012)

Urza said:


> The term "abandonware" has no legal meaning.
> 
> You are uploading copyrighted files that you hope nobody will file complaints about since they're old. No different from ROM dumps of console games.



You mean Abandonware and Public Domain aren't interchangeable?!? 

Whatever, any lawsuits should they appear won't be directed at me, so no fucks given.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

Urza said:


> The term "abandonware" has no legal meaning.
> 
> You are uploading copyrighted files that you hope nobody will file complaints about since they're old. No different from ROM dumps of console games.


Technically incorrect. Games can enter the Public Domain sector via various channels - for example, if their trademark expires and is no longer updated, the original owners of the trademark die, so nobody can file claims, the publishing rights expire or the original owners of the trademark declare the games Public Domain, which has happened before.

An example of that is the entire line of official Vectrex games which is now Public Domain, declared so by Jay Smith, the owner of the trademark.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 22, 2012)

tueidj said:


> Well I think the staff have been misled. How is this any different from hosting ROMs which are still sold today as virtual console games?



It's not, despite the fact most of those games are not being sold, but then there's the Virtual Console and 3DS Shop, but a very grey area nonetheless.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> As I said, there was a discussion over this, it was deemed that any file that requires DOS to operate are OK to upload. There was also a lengthy discussion between myself and Costello about how we will handle them. Then a new rule was instated and posted right at the top of the game section
> 
> 
> > Abandonware games are games that were released a long, long time ago (in our galaxy though) but that are no longer commercially exploited, more generally games that were "abandoned" by their publisher. They can generally be downloaded freely and safely, but for most games you will need an MS-DOS emulator such as DosBox.


....
These games obviously don't meet that rule, _they are still being sold_. Duke3D for example is even on xbox arcade; hardly a game that has been abandoned by its publisher.


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## Hadrian (Sep 22, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> As I said, there was a discussion over this, it was deemed that any file that requires DOS to operate are OK to upload. There was also a lengthy discussion between myself and Costello about how we will handle them. Then a new rule was instated and posted right at the top of the game section
> 
> 
> > Abandonware games are games that were released a long, long time ago (in our galaxy though) but that are no longer commercially exploited, more generally games that were "abandoned" by their publisher. They can generally be downloaded freely and safely, but for most games you will need an MS-DOS emulator such as DosBox.


Then it's ok for a rom of Earthbound SNES to be uploaded there as Nintendo won't re-release it due to licensing issues.

It's the same thing, unless the owners of the games in question outright say "we're abandoning this game, it's ok for you to download it without paying" or the game is now in public domain then it is considered warez.

One of those areas where we should just kill the files just in case. It's not like people can't get hold of them easily elsewhere.


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## Thesolcity (Sep 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Urza said:
> 
> 
> > The term "abandonware" has no legal meaning.
> ...



Something can be Abandonware without being Public Domain, though.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

Thesolcity said:


> Something can be Abandonware without being Public Domain, though.


Abandonware is a term with no legal meaning.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 22, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > As I said, there was a discussion over this, it was deemed that any file that requires DOS to operate are OK to upload. There was also a lengthy discussion between myself and Costello about how we will handle them. Then a new rule was instated and posted right at the top of the game section
> ...



True, but there are still numerous games floating around that generate revenue to second-hand shops but not Nintendo.  The only thing that prevents one from legally downloading ROMs is the fact the copyrights are still intact.  Personally, I don't care what people do with ROMs of deprecated systems the don't generate money, but at the same time, games that are being actively sold, well, you get the idea. What people do in their own time is their business.


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## Thesolcity (Sep 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Thesolcity said:
> 
> 
> > Something can be Abandonware without being Public Domain, though.
> ...



Hence why it can be one but not another. Abandonware CAN become public domain, but its not safe (In our society) to just claim something nobody has touched for a while to be fit for upload and redistribution without the original author(s)'s consent. Catboy said he allowed _Abandonware_, but just because its labeled that doesn't make it legal to host. Unless I'm entirely missing the point, that seems to be the issue.


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## Urza (Sep 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Urza said:
> 
> 
> > The term "abandonware" has no legal meaning.
> ...


I didn't state nor imply that games could not enter the public domain. I'm speaking to the idea of "abandonware": that because a franchise or game is "old" that it's okay to distribute the copyrighted materials in question.

You're also incorrect in the association of trademarking with this issue. Copyrights and trademark are two very different things, the latter having little relevance here. Copyrights (in the US and many other countries) will not expire on their own for many decades barring the holder explicitly releases them.


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## Guild McCommunist (Sep 22, 2012)

I think legally we need to be referring to freeware, not abandonware. And out of that list I think the only freeware game is Star Control II.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

It seems a lot of the games in the PC section are full commercial titles (warez), many of which are still being sold online at various sites. For example:
Alone in the Dark 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Star Control II (GoG.com)
Blood (GoG.com)
Descent 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Doom 1 (Steam)
Doom 2 (Steam)
Duke3D (GoG.com)

I'm sure there's many more, those are just what I found within a few minutes of looking. Even the games that aren't being sold anywhere today are still copyright and should not be hosted; new "old" games appear on GoG all the time. I suggest the entire section be taken offline until the legality of each individual game is checked.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

Urza said:


> I didn't state nor imply that games could not enter the public domain. I'm speaking to the idea of "abandonware", that because a franchise or game is "old" that it's okay to distribute the copyrighted materials in question.
> 
> You're also incorrect in the association of trademarking with this issue. Copyrights and trademark are two very different things, the latter having no relevant here.


To utilize your copyright to the fullest extent, you have to renew the related trademark periodically as means of assessing ownership of intellectual property. Of course, you still own the intellectual property if you don't, however it causes confusion and is generally not a welcome scenario. Perhaps I'm using the wrong legal term here, but I'm referring to a legal document stating ownership of an IP which has to be renewed from time to time.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 22, 2012)

Urza said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Urza said:
> ...



Copyrights last upwards of 75 years last I checked. So if a game in 1985 was copyrighted, it would expire in 2060.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> Copyrights last upwards of 75 years last I checked. So if a game in 1985 was copyrighted, it would expire in 2060.


Subject to geoterritorial issues. Where I live, it's 40 years since the last copyright and/or trademark renewal.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I think legally we need to be referring to freeware, not abandonware. And out of that list I think the only freeware game is Star Control II.


The ones I listed were only examples, I didn't do a thorough search. I also did skip a few titles that I know are freeware (Beneath a Steel Sky, Cave Story) but they are certainly the minority which is why I suggested taking everything down until they are all examined more closely.


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## Urza (Sep 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Urza said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't state nor imply that games could not enter the public domain. I'm speaking to the idea of "abandonware", that because a franchise or game is "old" that it's okay to distribute the copyrighted materials in question.
> ...


Again, copyrights and trademarks are two different kinds of IP which work differently; just because a trademark lapses or becomes ineffective does not put the copyright of related works into jeopardy.


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## WiiUBricker (Sep 22, 2012)

So hosting old, still sold copyrighted games is ok, but even linking to third-party hosted and not commercially distributed system menu wads, cioses, ioses etc is a no go?


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## p1ngpong (Sep 22, 2012)

Not going into the whole "what is abandonware" debate I have always held the opinion that uploading these sort of files to filetrip is absolutely pointless. People just don't go to filetrip for that sort of stuff first of all and secondly we are crossing into grey areas of legality that we just don't need to venture into. As the OP pointed out most of these games are still being sold on steam and GoG so they are hardly abandoned. I mean, uploading something like Doom? Seriously? How can you even argue that is abandoned? All the files that the OP linked to should just be taken down immediately we don't even need a discussion about it.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

Urza said:


> Again, copyrights and trademarks are two different kinds of IP which work differently; just because a trademark lapses or becomes ineffective does not put the copyright of related works into jeopardy.


As I said - subject to geoterritorial issues. What works in your country doesn't necessarily have to apply everywhere else, so I focus on my domestic law, which stands above international law.


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2012)

There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

Settling this issue is pretty simple - if a game is still actively sold, take it down. If it isn't in any shape or form, the company owning the copyright has disbanded and the ownership of the IP is at very best debatable, keep it online.


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## WiiUBricker (Sep 22, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.


The OP said in another thread his reports have been ignored, hence why he created this thread.


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## Urza (Sep 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Urza said:
> 
> 
> > Again, copyrights and trademarks are two different kinds of IP which work differently; just because a trademark lapses or becomes ineffective does not put the copyright of related works into jeopardy.
> ...


Considering that the servers are located in France and China, and the copyright holders will be overwhelmingly American, I reckon your "domestic law" means basically jack shit here.

I'll take the liberty of disabling the files in question.

edit: Someone else already got them.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2012)

Urza said:


> Considering that the servers are located in France and China, and the copyright holders will be overwhelmingly American, I reckon your "domestic law" means basically jack shit here.
> 
> I'll take the liberty of disabling the files in question.


Which is why one should be concerned with Chinese and French copyright laws rather than being rude to other users for no reason.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.


I don't see the point when the filetrip administrator is the one who uploaded them - he obviously thinks they are fine so drawing his attention isn't going to achieve anything, hence I made this thread instead.


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## Another World (Sep 22, 2012)

WiiBricker said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.
> ...



i've never seen these files reported with the filetrip report system. i check it daily.

here is what i am going to propose.

if a file is upload and that file is still sold (thus not 'abandoned') then please report it with a link to where it is sold. those files will be removed. please do not report it saying that it should be deleted without any further explanation or links that will help us to make our decision. the more information you can provide the quicker we can take appropriate action.

-another world


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

The files I mentioned reporting were in the wii section, several GPL apps without source code and some other apps that don't permit redistribution. Unrelated to this matter.


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2012)

tueidj said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > There is a report button on filetrip. If you have a problem with a file, please don't hesitate to report them and they will be handled.
> ...


I don't recall seeing those reports. It could be possible that I missed them during the time that I was away with computer problems.
But there are other staff members on the site and if they didn't handle them, that means they didn't see the need to remove them.


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## Another World (Sep 22, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
> http://www.amazon.co...r+scrolls+arena
> 
> Abandonware is a rather vague grey area, but we deemed any game that requires Dos to play are OK to upload.



lets clarify it a little. if it is being sold by a system like steam, gog, psn, xbox live, etc, then someone has the rights to sell the software. those files can not be allowed on filetrip. that would be blatant warez trading. if it is an amazon/ebay/yahoo/etc seller selling their old copy of the abandoned file, then its fair game. if those files are asked to be taken down, we will comply with the developers/copyright holders.

i think that is a fair way to judge this. 

-another world


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## The Catboy (Sep 22, 2012)

Another World said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
> ...


Fair enough.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

That doesn't address the situation I proposed earlier - when a game is allowed on filetrip and then gets revived on a site like GoG.com (19,975 people have asked for System Shock to be made available, for example). It should be freeware games only if you want the site to stay legal.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

It seems a lot of the games in the PC section are full commercial titles (warez), many of which are still being sold online at various sites. For example:
Alone in the Dark 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Star Control II (GoG.com)
Blood (GoG.com)
Descent 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Doom 1 (Steam)
Doom 2 (Steam)
Duke3D (GoG.com)

I'm sure there's many more, those are just what I found within a few minutes of looking. Even the games that aren't being sold anywhere today are still copyright and should not be hosted; new "old" games appear on GoG all the time. I suggest the entire section be taken offline until the legality of each individual game is checked.


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## Another World (Sep 23, 2012)

the staff will address those issues on a case-by-case basis. if the same game is made available for purchase again, just make us aware that the game is now being sold, that someone has the rights to it, and where it can be bought. we will respect the copyright holders and remove the files.

-another world


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## WiiUBricker (Sep 23, 2012)

Another World said:


> the staff will address those issues on a case-by-case basis. if the same game is made available for purchase again, just make us aware that the game is now being sold, that someone has the rights to it, and where it can be bought. we will respect the copyright holders and remove the files.


Just sayin', the copyright holders have rights to their games all the time, even if they aren't sold anywhere. Btw, the last sentence reminds me of Megaupload and some other file hosts. Look what happened to them


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## Another World (Sep 23, 2012)

> How long does a copyright last?
> The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For works first published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on several factors. To determine the length of copyright protection for a particular work, consult chapter 3 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code). More information on the term of copyright can be found in Circular 15a, Duration of Copyright, and Circular 1, Copyright Basics.





> Created 1/1/1978 or after - When work is fixed in tangible medium of expression - notice is irrelevant - copyright protecion lasts for the life of author and 70 years based on the the longest living author if jointly created or if work of corporate authorship, works for hire, or anonymous and pseudonymous works, the shorter of 95 years from publication, or 120 years from creation.



i don't disagree. the final decision to include these files was not ours. we are just doing the moderation of file reports.

-another world


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## Rydian (Sep 23, 2012)

Assuming that an author or publisher lasted less then a year between publishing and "dying", then the most recent a game can be from is 1942 before the copyright has expired.  Seeing as that rule didn't even come into play before '78 though, the only things that are exempt from _that_ are the earliest Atari 2600 games (first two years) and the like.

Moving back and looking at the few things that fall into that age range...
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html#303


> if the work is published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright shall not expire before December 31, 2047.


(That's a pretty long range they set there.)

So I think it's a safe bet that the entire concept of "abandonware" should be cleansed from filetrip.

This thread was partially to get people to stop uploading those files, too.


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## GreatZimkogway (Sep 23, 2012)

Another World said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > There are also games nowadays that are freeware and still being sold
> ...



So what about something like Cave Story?  That's being sold and is fully freeware.


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## WiiUBricker (Sep 23, 2012)

I can't find license information about the free versions of Cave Story. Technically, just because it's freeware doesn't mean that you are allowed to host it yourself. That's basically the reason why hosting and linking to system files apart from big Ns own servers is prohibited here.


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## tueidj (Sep 23, 2012)

Another World said:


> lets clarify it a little. if it is being sold by a system like steam, gog, psn, xbox live, etc, then someone has the rights to sell the software. those files can not be allowed on filetrip. that would be blatant warez trading. if it is an amazon/ebay/yahoo/etc seller selling their old copy of the abandoned file, then its fair game. if those files are asked to be taken down, we will comply with the developers/copyright holders.


Why is this lenient policy only being applied to PC games and not ROMs (which are banned outright) ?


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## Arm73 (Sep 23, 2012)

Pardon me, but what's the point in removing selected downloads from FT ? Just because some of us will feel good about themselves ?
We've been doing ' things ' on this forums that have a lot to do with hacking, pirating and modding.

If there are a few questionable files on FT, why don't do the sensible thing, and live them there until some of the original copyright holders dom come in here and demand to take them down  ?
Who am I to say what's right and what's wrong and what should be done ?

I doubt that having a dozen of commercial games on FT will seriously hurt the industry ( especially since hey are so old and even require DOS ), and people around here certainly know how to get them else where .
It's just convenient to have 'em in one place.

Like I said, I am nothing, I don't have the right to tell you guys what to do. Only the original copyright holders DO have the rights to say something, and if they don' t bother to come in here and demand their intellectual propriety to be taken down, why should some of us feel entitled do so ?

There are worst crimes in the world you know ? Like for example creating an emulator that requires illegal roms to run ( and makes you look for yourself for the roms, but still encourages piracy IMO )  or port a PC game to the Wii that requires original WADs to run.

This , also encourages illegal downloads ( even though the ' authors ' recommend to get the legal files on GoG, but if I didn't have the emulators or the means to play said games on my modern hardware , then I wouldn't bother in looking for them in the first place now, wouldn't I ?


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## tueidj (Sep 23, 2012)

The point is removing any possible reason for someone to launch a lawsuit against the site _before_ it happens. The alternative would most likely be the hosting company pulling the plug as soon as they receive the first DMCA takedown request and see for themselves that a bunch of pirated software is being hosted (then demanding a fee to allow the site back online).


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## Rydian (Sep 23, 2012)

GreatZimkogway said:


> So what about something like Cave Story?  That's being sold and is fully freeware.


The original version of Cave Story as distributed for free (including the PSP port, source was given from Pixel for it from what I read), the sold versions (which came _years_ later) are not freeware.  Cave Story for the PSP is fine to host as far as I see, but a cracked copy of Cave Story+ (from Steam) is not.



WiiBricker said:


> I can't find license information about the free versions of Cave Story. Technically, just because it's freeware doesn't mean that you are allowed to host it yourself. That's basically the reason why hosting and linking to system files apart from big Ns own servers is prohibited here.


The general line of thought it if something is meant to be distributed freely it's fine to.  Take the PSP firmware updates, for example.  They can be downloaded from Sony's site in a standalone version and it has instructions on how to put them on a memory stick.  If the original version of Cave Story is in question, then wouldn't the firmware updates for the PSP be as well?
http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/psp/index.htm
http://www.scei.co.jp/psp-eula/psp_eula_en.html
(Since the link there appears to be a little broken JS.)


```
You may not [...] (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods;
```
What these methods are, I can't find (maybe I'm just CTRL+F'ing for the wrong phrases.)



Arm73 said:


> Pardon me, but what's the point in removing selected downloads from FT ? Just because some of us will feel good about themselves ?
> We've been doing ' things ' on this forums that have a lot to do with hacking, pirating and modding.


This site makes it a point to not host anything illegal.  Hell, we don't even point out ROM sites.



Arm73 said:


> If there are a few questionable files on FT, why don't do the sensible thing, and live them there until some of the original copyright holders dom come in here and demand to take them down  ?


Well if you KNOW that you're doing something wrong and purposely wait until legal action is taken you'll likely get hit even harder if they take you to court, since you can't exactly claim innocence once it's been publicly made aware to you that you're hosting something illegal.  Or you could take the files down and *avoid* legal action.

No legal action against you > legal action again you.


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## Arm73 (Sep 23, 2012)

Rydian said:


> .......
> No legal action against you > legal action again you.



Yeah I understand your fair point, but we are talking about a few very old files here, it's not like a huge, piracy focused download site like the old Demonoid for example ( which took years to be taken down ), I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make any sense to sue a small community over a few ' questionable files ', without some friendly warning first.
Like I said, we are talking about peanuts here , compared to giant  illegal warez focused sites.
But fair is fair.


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## Gnargle (Sep 23, 2012)

GTA 1 and 2 are available through Steam but are also available for free from R*'s own website. Abandonware is a fluid thing, but I think considering, say, Doom is nonw nearly 20 years old we're probably good. Bethesda aren't going to take legal action over Doom WADs since you can google search and every result will be a full version of the game.
Oh, and Filetrip hosts BIOSes too, right?
They're under copyright, technically, you know.


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## Minox (Sep 23, 2012)

Gnargle said:


> Oh, and Filetrip hosts BIOSes too, right?


No.


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## Another World (Sep 23, 2012)

if its legally available for free, then why are you asking? filetrip is a mirror, mirror it. i fail to see how that instance is confusing at all.

-another world


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## Another World (Sep 23, 2012)

GreatZimkogway said:


> So what about something like Cave Story?  That's being sold and is fully freeware.



if its legally available for free, then why are you asking? filetrip is a mirror, mirror it. i fail to see how that instance is confusing at all.

-another world


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 23, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> It's not, despite the fact most of those games are not being sold, but then there's the Virtual Console and 3DS Shop, but a very grey area nonetheless.


Even so, there's still so many legacy games that aren't sold in any virtual console or physical form at all, and yet they're still disallowed from being hosted. Earthbound and Donkey Kong 64 being perfect examples.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 23, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> the_randomizer said:
> 
> 
> > It's not, despite the fact most of those games are not being sold, but then there's the Virtual Console and 3DS Shop, but a very grey area nonetheless.
> ...



Nintendo owns the rights to DK64, but they don't want to release it.


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 24, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> Nintendo owns the rights to DK64, but they don't want to release it.


I know. And that's exactly my point. The same can be said about these old computer games that are arbitrarily allowed to be hosted in the PC section. Just because the company isn't doing anything with the IP to make money, they still own it. So what's the difference?


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## the_randomizer (Sep 24, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> the_randomizer said:
> 
> 
> > Nintendo owns the rights to DK64, but they don't want to release it.
> ...



No difference, but it almost seems like a lost cause to copyright IPs that will never be used by companies (existent and defunct) to generate revenue; like the Mother series.  I personally don't care how and where people get ROMs or ISO images, that's their business.


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## Jamstruth (Sep 24, 2012)

If the game is available as Shareware or Freeware it should be fine to host on Filetrip.
If the full versions are being posted on Filetrip and its Shareware then that's a problem. If the games are being posted and there is no Freeware or Shareware version then it is a massive problem.


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## tueidj (Sep 22, 2012)

It seems a lot of the games in the PC section are full commercial titles (warez), many of which are still being sold online at various sites. For example:
Alone in the Dark 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Star Control II (GoG.com)
Blood (GoG.com)
Descent 1 & 2 (GoG.com)
Doom 1 (Steam)
Doom 2 (Steam)
Duke3D (GoG.com)

I'm sure there's many more, those are just what I found within a few minutes of looking. Even the games that aren't being sold anywhere today are still copyright and should not be hosted; new "old" games appear on GoG all the time. I suggest the entire section be taken offline until the legality of each individual game is checked.


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## Another World (Sep 24, 2012)

Jamstruth said:


> If the full versions are being posted on Filetrip and its Shareware then that's a problem.



you mean if its a cracked shareware/demoware? as in, the crack unlocks the demo into a full game?

-another world


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## Rydian (Sep 24, 2012)

Well old shareware stuff was more like where the demo only gave you a level or two, and the full game simply included the rest of the files and you dropped them into the same folder, no crack or anything, they just assumed you wouldn't distribute the full thing if they told you not to.

Not like the games could be uploaded to mediafire in 0.5s flat back in the day anyways, it took more concentrated effort to share something like Epic Pinball.


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 24, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> No difference, but it almost seems like a lost cause to copyright IPs that will never be used by companies (existent and defunct) to generate revenue; like the Mother series.  I personally don't care how and where people get ROMs or ISO images, that's their business.


I agree with you. I personally don't mind at all if people get legacy games that are no longer in production for free, copyright or not. However (and I mean this with all respect), I feel that this arbitrary difference between "popular" commercial games (SNES, Genesis, N64, GCN, etc) and old PC games is a major ethical contradiction on the part of GBAtemp.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 24, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> the_randomizer said:
> 
> 
> > No difference, but it almost seems like a lost cause to copyright IPs that will never be used by companies (existent and defunct) to generate revenue; like the Mother series.  I personally don't care how and where people get ROMs or ISO images, that's their business.
> ...



Agreed. There's a discrepancy that's all too obvious, but whatever.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2012)

Law aside, I don't see a problem with downloading ROM's and legacy software as long as you own the original copies. Say, you have a Gameboy game you like to play, but you don't necessarily want to hang out with a Gameboy and a stack of games - then you're entitled to your ROM's in my eyes. Unfortunately, the law is what the Temp should be concerned with most.

We live in a world of bureocracy and we can't exactly count on people's word - giving access to copyrighted files for free is wrong, regardless of their accessability on other mediums, and should be frowned upon on a site that tries to maintain its good image.

Now, I'm no saint and I won't lie - most of the games I play are pirated. I don't have the money to afford paying for games, and yet games are my passion which I am reluctant to stop fueling. That said, I acknowledge that what I'm doing is illegal rather than look for loopholes or some uplifting excuse for myself. When I do buy a game, it's one of the franchises I hold dear and collect, but I digress.

My point is that to avoid legal issues GBATemp's FileTrip should be free of all copyrighted content that's not Public Domain or Freeware, regardless of whether it's considered Abandonware or not. There are other channels to "get" those files and I don't see a need why GBATemp should provide them. This used to be a ROM site in the past, but that's the past. The site moved on, and so should we.


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 24, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> This used to be a ROM site in the past, but that's the past. The site moved on, and so should we.


I didn't know this.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> I didn't know this.


The inner workings of GBATemp were simple - in the GBA days, links for ROM's were hosted on the page. They were often removed and rehosted, hence their temporary nature and hence the Temp in the name. Now, I don't remember those days - I discovered GBATemp in the DS era, but it's documented on the Temp's wiki.


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## Ericthegreat (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm sorry but i bet 99% of ppl here at least at first got here learning how to get free games....


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 24, 2012)

Ericthegreat said:


> I'm sorry but i bet 99% of ppl here at least at first got here learning how to get free games....


That made me laugh. No, 99% of people did NOT come here first learning to get free games.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Ericthegreat said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry but i bet 99% of ppl here at least at first got here learning how to get free games....
> ...


I'm with Eric on this one, my very first post was about softmodding my Wii, and I was not a whole lot into homebrew at that time. 

Not gonna sugar-coat it, I'm a filthy pirate.


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 24, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm with Eric on this one, my very first post was about softmodding my Wii, and I was not a whole lot into homebrew at that time.


I mean, I'm sure that a great amount of people came here first looking for free games, but I doubt it was 99%.


Foxi4 said:


> Not gonna sugar-coat it, I'm a filthy pirate.





Spoiler



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLMJpHihykI


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## Jamstruth (Sep 24, 2012)

Rydian said:


> Well old shareware stuff was more like where the demo only gave you a level or two, and the full game simply included the rest of the files and you dropped them into the same folder, no crack or anything, they just assumed you wouldn't distribute the full thing if they told you not to.
> 
> Not like the games could be uploaded to mediafire in 0.5s flat back in the day anyways, it took more concentrated effort to share something like Epic Pinball.


I know. But if we're only disitrbuting those first 2 levels nobody can say we're doing anything bad.
I see the hypocrisy in this and think the offending downloads should be taken down. There's a billion places anybody with access to Google can find to get these things. By the logic here if the game has no release apart from one 20 years ago then we should be able to upload it. How about Pokemon Red? That isn't released anywhere but the Game Boy. It stopped being sold over 10 years ago. Surely that counts as Abandonware?
The fact remains that these are not fair game. They're still copyrighted IP.


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