# The NZ Shooting



## Saiyan Lusitano (Mar 16, 2019)

The shooting that happened in New Zealand was horrible and I don't think anyone would say otherwise. Now, I didn't read the shooter's manifesto but he apparently spent over two years working on it and then he did _that, _and on his 8chan post he sounds like a typical extreme right-wing though the difference is that this one actually carried out an attack.

His 8chan post was archived so I've read that and if you want, the link is down below. Don't ask for the video, it's out there but I'm not going near that atrocity.

http://archive.is/G04Xx

He mentioned "subscribe to PewDiePie" and now PDP is in trouble because of this scumbag despite that Pewds isn't responsible what strangers do or say, in his or someone else's name. He did in fact say he wanted to cause chaos and that's what's occurring.



And due to all of this, the gun laws in NZ are going to change. Something about this whole story feels like it's missing a piece, like, there was an internet outage, NZ revising their gun laws and he announced he was going to carry out an attack and livestreamed it like a friggin' game. Maybe it's just coincidence, who knows.



All in all, this isn't a news story that can be wrapped up in 3-4mins, it needs a real investigation and if NZ has a death penalty system (probably not), give him that treatment.

This video below by CBS gives a summary of some of it and a possible idea (because no one ever truly knows one's true motives in their minds) about what he was working/thinking:



RIP the victims.


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## Lazyboss (Mar 16, 2019)

Sadly, some sick minded people supported this attack and called him a hero, now i don't know what kind of a person he is, what was his motivation and why kill 49 innocent people, to prove a point? no matter what those people religion, color or age, killing the innocent is inhuman, what breaks my heart is some of the victims are children.

I don't know if some of the news are true or fake, but I've read that his facebook account is totally different, he even visit Pakistan which is a Muslim country saying its the most friendly people in the world, so how come his way of thinking changed very fast and he is full of hatred now? i don't believe he volunteer to do this massacre, why he is allowed to carry weapons in the first place? why his name is not in the CIA list? why in NZ? why the Muslims? why the children? why the hate for things happened hundreds of years ago? NZ not even have anything to do with that, does he have mental illness? is anyone paying him / threatening him to do it?  

So many questions and i'm sure we won't get the true story as usual, but all i can do now is to pray the victims to rest in peace.


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## Creatable (Mar 16, 2019)

Watching that video was actually sickening. How he just killed people en masse and THEN CONTINUED TO SHOOT AT THE PRESUMABLY DEAD BODIES IN CASE ANYONE SURVIVED. It was disgusting and the man who did it deserves to die.
He drove there, went inside, killed as many people as he could see, went back to his car, got another gun, WENT BACK INSIDE WITH ALL OF THE DEAD BODIES THERE, started shooting some more, and then got back into his car and drove away to another location with an armed guard to do the same thing.

To all of the victims families, I am so sorry for your losses or your loved ones harmed.


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## Bat420maN (Mar 16, 2019)

Anyone got a link to the PDF this dude uploaded before this?


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## notimp (Mar 16, 2019)

Have you ever heard of not propagating (sharing) a mass shooters ideological PR material? Because thats was a thing with conventional media in the past.

The reasoning was, that future mass shooters (or suicide victims, same actual argument) would do this partly for they recognition that they'll get after the act. So responsible people would not engage in distributing that material - so that part of the incentive would get dropped.

If you stop acting like "horror - tourists" for a while, maybe we could talk about, that part of the first posters motivations seems to be his emotional feelings for a freaking youtube star, he probably never met. And that doesnt care for him, or his think of "What would Pew feel" agenda one bit.

Thank you.

Also - as soon as someone shares a link to a mass shooters manifest, I'll share the topic with moderators to be shut down. Just so we understand each other.


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## Bat420maN (Mar 16, 2019)

notimp said:


> Have you ever heard of not propagating (sharing) a mass shooters ideological PR material? Because thats was a thing with conventional media in the past.
> 
> The reasoning was, that future mass shooters (or suicide victims, same actual argument) would do this partly for they recognition that they'll get after the act. So responsible people would not engage in distributing that material - so that part of the incentive would get dropped.
> 
> ...



You have your opinoins... I on the other hand would like to read into what caused this. There is a million things that can be learned from situations like these. Hiding the shit and removing it whenever it pops up helps no one at all. Just fuels the idiots who keep calling it fake. You feel free to be uninformed but, dont just assume I am some "horror tourist".


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## Doran754 (Mar 16, 2019)

Bat420maN said:


> You have your opinoins... I on the other hand would like to read into what caused this. There is a million things that can be learned from situations like these. Hiding the shit and removing it whenever it pops up helps no one at all. Just fuels the idiots who keep calling it fake. You feel free to be uninformed but, dont just assume I am some "horror tourist".



You shouldn't read into his whole manifesto because it was all a massive troll, it was made to cause seperation and division. "The left can't meme" springs to mind, mentioning PDP, it was one giant meme and its not worthy to wipe my ass on. He should be locked away forever and or castrated and put to death. I will say its quite annoying that the church bombing in the Phillipines that killed 20 people in January got like 1/10th of the media coverage. Terrorism is terrorism and they should all be disavowed equally.


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## Bat420maN (Mar 16, 2019)

shamzie said:


> You shouldn't read into his whole manifesto because it was all a massive troll, it was made to cause seperation and division. "The left can't meme" springs to mind, mentioning PDP, it was one giant meme and its not worthy to wipe my ass on. He should be locked away forever and or castrated and put to death. I will say its quite annoying that the church bombing in the Phillipines that killed 20 people in January got like 1/10th of the media coverage. Terrorism is terrorism and they should all be disavowed equally.



That's one of the main reasons I want to read it. Its been descibed to me as a huge schizophrenic meme. There is a lot more to this story then the media or anyone else is letting on. No one learns shit from any of it, if it's just hidden.


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## Lazyboss (Mar 16, 2019)

notimp said:


> Have you ever heard of not propagating (sharing) a mass shooters ideological PR material? Because thats was a thing with conventional media in the past.
> 
> The reasoning was, that future mass shooters (or suicide victims, same actual argument) would do this partly for they recognition that they'll get after the act. So responsible people would not engage in distributing that material - so that part of the incentive would get dropped.
> 
> ...


I don't want to be funny at a time like this but you really should work in the FBI for hiding the truth from everyone.

Sharing those kind of things will make the audiance more aware about the satuation, hiding it will just produce an ignorant generation with no idea about what happen in this world.
In the other hand, sick people will take notes and do the same, but You cannot hide the truth from 100 for the sake of 1 retarded person not to do the same.


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## Bat420maN (Mar 16, 2019)

Lazyboss said:


> I don't want to be funny at a time like this but you really should work in the FBI for hiding the truth from everyone.
> 
> Sharing those kind of things will make the audiance more aware about the satuation, hiding it will just produce an ignorant generation with no idea about what happen in this world.
> In the other hand, sick people will take notes and do the same, but You cannot hide the truth from 100 for the sake of 1 retarded person not to do the same.



Well said!


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## Creatable (Mar 16, 2019)

(LINK REMOVED)
Costello requested it be taken down so I have.


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## x65943 (Mar 16, 2019)

Russia Today is a Kremlin backed propaganda network and never a reliable news source

They only try to sew discord in Western nations to benefit Russian interests


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## Bat420maN (Mar 16, 2019)

Hiding this stuff away and not giving us the option to learn from it is way more damaging then it being openly available. 

@Costello Is there a specific reason the PDF isn't allowed but a clip from the actual video is, no matter what it shows? Not trying to be a dick, am seriously interested.


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## Kingy (Mar 16, 2019)

Bat420maN said:


> Hiding this stuff away and not giving us the option to learn from it is way more damaging then it being openly available.
> 
> @Costello Is there a specific reason the PDF isn't allowed but a clip from the actual video is, no matter what it shows? Not trying to be a dick, am seriously interested.


It's not this site's fault- The New Zealand police has requested that people don't share the PDF or video.


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## Bat420maN (Mar 16, 2019)

Wasnt aware of that, thanks for sharing.


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## chrisrlink (Mar 16, 2019)

Creatable said:


> Watching that video was actually sickening. How he just killed people en masse and THEN CONTINUED TO SHOOT AT THE PRESUMABLY DEAD BODIES IN CASE ANYONE SURVIVED. It was disgusting and the man who did it deserves to die.
> He drove there, went inside, killed as many people as he could see, went back to his car, got another gun, WENT BACK INSIDE WITH ALL OF THE DEAD BODIES THERE, started shooting some more, and then got back into his car and drove away to another location with an armed guard to do the same thing.
> 
> To all of the victims families, I am so sorry for your losses or your loved ones harmed.



I bet NZ doesn't have capital punishment like the US nah let him be butt (you know) and murdered in prison this guy doesn't even deserve the death penilty cause they show mercy by incapacitating you before stopping the heart or if they give him the needle just inject the heart stopping drug no pre chaser

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Kingy_ said:


> It's not this site's fault- The New Zealand police has requested that people don't share the PDF or video.



and it's to prevent other tragedies from occuring by preventing people from being inspired by this horrid shit


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## dAVID_ (Mar 16, 2019)

notimp said:


> Have you ever heard of not propagating (sharing) a mass shooters ideological PR material? Because thats was a thing with conventional media in the past.
> 
> The reasoning was, that future mass shooters (or suicide victims, same actual argument) would do this partly for they recognition that they'll get after the act. So responsible people would not engage in distributing that material - so that part of the incentive would get dropped.
> 
> ...


Case A: Removing any news about mass shootings, which will cause that nothing is done to change laws, because nobody knows of any cases where people use guns in order to kill innocent people (although I would say killing any person is bad).
Case B: The shootings are known to the public, but the shooter gets public recognition. This motivates people to do something.

I think case b is always preferrable.


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## Creatable (Mar 16, 2019)

In this instance I'm pretty sure it's too widely publicized for it to be ignored at this point.


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## weatMod (Mar 16, 2019)

the media dn the governments are so sickening disgusting  with their hypocrisy

 govt and media establishment: the wholesale slaughter and murdering  of innocent muslims in their own countries is not only totally socially acceptable but it is you patriotic duty

govt and media establishment : the wholesale slaughter and murder of innocent muslims in western countries is the most evil thing ever


now they will impose more censorship and restrict free speech on the internet and take away the guns
because muh hate speech and muh incitement

when circa 2001 - 2003 it was non stop incitement to  slaughter of muslims on the news 24/7

i have friends and family  who were dumb enough to enlist , i can tell you that it is SOP to refer to  arabs/muslims as " haji's" "dune coons" and "sand niggers" right up the ladder to the top this is standard language

yet the media and govt establishment  praises the military  as heros

and at the same time govt media establishment   says that
 anyone who  espouses even the slightest  opposition to immigration is spreading "hate speech" and "is inciting violence" LOL

how do wny of these people have any credibility left whatsoever?

oh and as this was taking place israel was pounding gaza with over 100 air strikes
no doubt killing lots of innocent civilians   but not one single word of it reported in the media


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## Joe88 (Mar 16, 2019)

From what I am hearing they are blocking both 4chan and 8chan in nz internet, though switching your DNS to the google one bypasses it.
Hours after the attack one of the nz news outlets said only they are allowed to read the manifesto and it's illegal for anyone of the public to read it. (flashback to wikileaks podesta emails and cnn)

I feel at the very least the Q&A section should have been allowed (and not all the anti-immigrant loon stuff which which composed the rest of the document)
There was also alot of weird stuff going on with him in october of last year, he visited pakistan, one of the residents posted this on facebook (pages have since been removed after people discovered them)


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## Hanafuda (Mar 16, 2019)

Joe88 said:


> There was also alot of weird stuff going on with him in october of last year, he visited pakistan, one of the residents posted this on facebook (pages have since been removed after people discovered them)




Yeah this is definitely something untold here. I'm not jumping to conclusions without knowledge, but going from this^ to psychopathic hatred for Muslims emigrating to NZ in just 6 months' time doesn't pass the smell test.


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## Xzi (Mar 16, 2019)

The piece of shit wasn't even from NZ and he was complaining about an "invasion."  I can't imagine NZ's immigration rate was very high to begin with, and it'll be even lower now.

He also thought that NZ passing more restrictive gun laws would stir up a massive controversy, but there's no radical right-wing gun protectorate in NZ, so the new restrictions are getting fast-tracked virtually unopposed.  This is what happens when too many morons worship at the altar of ignorance, people start shooting up buildings without even knowing why themselves.


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## Ev1l0rd (Mar 16, 2019)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12213197

Of course there's a politician (Australian one in this case) at the ready to victim blame.



> "However, while this kind of violent vigilantism can never be justified, what it highlights is
> the growing fear within our community, both in Australia and New Zealand, of the increasing Muslim presence.
> 
> "As always, left-wing politicians and the media will rush to claim that the causes of today's shootings lie with gun laws or those who hold nationalist views but this is all clichéd nonsense.
> ...



For the record, I find this statement disgusting.


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## Lazyboss (Mar 17, 2019)

For sure this guy didn't work alone, there are many racist people in the world but they didn't even hurt a fly, and this guy become racist and full of hate suddenly and suddenly he owns many weapons and start shooting people for something it didn't even hurt him? 
Now who's the real people behind this attack? For sure we won't know, because no matter how much I hate this guy and wish him dead in a very horrible way for what he did, I still cannot remove the idea from my mind that he is just another victim or a puppet for someone else, no one can do that without a good reason, and all reasons they mentioned are just silly.


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## emigre (Mar 17, 2019)

Thread title change to The New Zealand terrorist attack please.



Saiyan Lusitano said:


> And due to all of this, the gun laws in NZ are going to change. Something about this whole story feels like it's missing a piece, like, there was an internet outage, NZ revising their gun laws and he announced he was going to carry out an attack and livestreamed it like a friggin' game. Maybe it's just coincidence, who knows.



The gun used was legal. When 70+ people get shot with a legally registered firearm in a terrorist attack, reevaluating gun laws is an absolutely basic requirement from a responsible government. Fortunately, New Zealand has a responsible leader in Jacinda Ardern.



Saiyan Lusitano said:


> He mentioned "subscribe to PewDiePie" and now PDP is in trouble because of this scumbag despite that Pewds isn't responsible what strangers do or say, in his or someone else's name. He did in fact say he wanted to cause chaos and that's what's occurring.



PewDiePie is trash and has happily engaged in some appaling shit (see anti-semitism) and in his toxic fanbase. I'm not proclaiming he's a white supremacist who wants violence against ethnic minorities but I will say the guy is a piece of shit. 



Lazyboss said:


> For sure this guy didn't work alone, there are many racist people in the world but they didn't even hurt a fly, and this guy become racist and full of hate suddenly and suddenly he owns many weapons and start shooting people for something it didn't even hurt him?
> Now who's the real people behind this attack? For sure we won't know, because no matter how much I hate this guy and wish him dead in a very horrible way for what he did, I still cannot remove the idea from my mind that he is just another victim or a puppet for someone else, no one can do that without a good reason, and all reasons they mentioned are just silly.



Do not describe him as a victim, he's a terrorist. At least 49 people were killed by him, they were victims. Explain what you mean by 'without a good reason?' Everything about the guy is screaming far right and sadly we live in a toxic environment where hate and division is being encouraged by those in positions of authority. This guy is no different than someone who joins IS. Different skin colour, same irrational hatred.


I'm not surprised at this and I fully expect more of these attacks. There have been the Mosque attacks in Montreal and London, the Church shootings in Charlestown and the Synagogue shooting in Pittsburg, not even looking into the rates of hate crime. We're living in an age of hate where appaling cunts are getting into positions of power by politicising and taking advantage of insecurity and this is the result. And the result of this is the emboldening of the Far Right to engage in terrorism. It's made me sick seeing people engage in this divisionary bollocks and inflaming the fire and then after people are killed, they pull out the hate is wrong bollocks. The Aussie PM, Scott Morrison is a great example of this, he and his party have been happy to engage in inflammatory bullshit for votes and now he's standing up against it. Or alternatively the Far Right fuckos like Milo who and Tommy Robinson, purveyors of hate speech who portray themselves as defenders of free speech. And we have the media who seem to love giving these people a voice which in turn in indoctrinates more people. Newsnight ( a 'respected' current affairs program) invited on Generation Identity, a group of Far Right extremists, onto their broadcast to talk about the shooting which is not appropriate. 

Fortunately, there is good out there, I've always liked Jacinda Arden but she's come across as amazing in the aftermath of this. She's shown compassion, she's called out for what it is, a terrorist attack and she's doing something about it by tightening the gun laws.

I'm a brown twentysomething guy with a clear Muslim name and I've grown up in the post 9/11 world and the older I get, the more I realise how tragic the consequences 9/11 was and the moronic actions after that.  I'm actually getting sick of this hate and extremist sympathy bollocks.


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## notimp (Mar 17, 2019)

emigre said:


> toxic fanbase


Toxic = still a word that only means "something our group doenst like so we dont talk about". Please dont use if possible. Use something that describes the issue you are talking about instead.

People simply use toxic because they want to show that they are angry without having to think about why.

Other than that I agree with your posting, its just the use of the word I dont like.


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## emigre (Mar 17, 2019)

notimp said:


> Toxic = still a word that only means "something our group doenst like so we dont talk about". Please dont use if possible. Use something that describes the issue you are talking about instead.
> 
> People simply use toxic because they want to show that they are angry without having to think about why.
> 
> Other than that I agree with your posting, its just the use of the word I dont like.



Don't put words in my mouth and imply I meant something else. I used toxic purposefully because there are elements of his fanbase which are toxic.


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## leon315 (Mar 17, 2019)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> He mentioned "subscribe to PewDiePie"


nope, he didn't say that: he said ''*Liberals* *skrubscribe* to PewDiePie''!


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## leon315 (Mar 17, 2019)

Lazyboss said:


> cut


btw do you know where are victims from? from Tunisia? Marrocco? or from KSA, Qatar?


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## Lazyboss (Mar 17, 2019)

emigre said:


> Do not describe him as a victim, he's a terrorist. At least 49 people were killed by him, they were victims. Explain what you mean by 'without a good reason?' Everything about the guy is screaming far right and sadly we live in a toxic environment where hate and division is being encouraged by those in positions of authority. This guy is no different than someone who joins IS. Different skin colour, same irrational hatred.


Looks like you didn't read my post clearly, for sure he is a terrorist for killing all those people, but did he do it willingly? No one supported him? No one forced him? Did he plan this attack from 2 years?
A simple hate is not not a reason to mass murder innocent people, they didn't harm him in anyway to hate them in the first place, immigration didn't effect his job or his family, suddenly he become racist, suddenly he hates immigration, suddenly he hates Muslims, how and why and when did it all happened? For sure he did the dirty work but who is really behind all this massacre? He is not even suffering from mental illness, he is trained to do this, and he is covering it up for a reason, and his reasons for the mass shooting is just stupid and fake.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



leon315 said:


> btw do you know where are victims from? from Tunisia? Marrocco? or from KSA, Qatar?


All I know some of them from KSA, Jordon, India, mixed.


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## Deleted User (Mar 17, 2019)

Bat420maN said:


> Wasnt aware of that, thanks for sharing.


I have a copy. He mentions wanting a white nation for white people and he started this mindset over an islam extremist killing a deaf girl in Auckland.

I only read a small bit, but I didn't see anything about white supremacy like the mainstream media says. Just extreme white nationalism and fear of Islamic extremnists


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## barronwaffles (Mar 17, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The piece of shit wasn't even from NZ and he was complaining about an "invasion."  I can't imagine NZ's immigration rate was very high to begin with, and it'll be even lower now.
> 
> He also thought that NZ passing more restrictive gun laws would stir up a massive controversy, but there's no radical right-wing gun protectorate in NZ, so the new restrictions are getting fast-tracked virtually unopposed.  This is what happens when too many morons worship at the altar of ignorance, people start shooting up buildings without even knowing why themselves.



He quite literally thought the opposite - that firearm owners in New Zealand were already so neutered that additional restrictions would pass unopposed.


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## Deleted User (Mar 17, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The piece of shit wasn't even from NZ and he was complaining about an "invasion."  I can't imagine NZ's immigration rate was very high to begin with, and it'll be even lower now.
> 
> He also thought that NZ passing more restrictive gun laws would stir up a massive controversy, but there's no radical right-wing gun protectorate in NZ, so the new restrictions are getting fast-tracked virtually unopposed.  This is what happens when too many morons worship at the altar of ignorance, people start shooting up buildings without even knowing why themselves.


Nz infrastructure has actually been struggling to keep up with high immigration rates. It was a topic of the last election.


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## Tigran (Mar 17, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> I have a copy. He mentions wanting a white nation for white people and he started this mindset over an islam extremist killing a deaf girl in Auckland.
> 
> I only read a small bit, but I didn't see anything about white supremacy like the mainstream media says. Just extreme white nationalism and fear of Islamic extremnists




Uh.. White nation for white people is pretty much pure white supremacy..


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## Deleted User (Mar 17, 2019)

Tigran said:


> Uh.. White nation for white people is pretty much pure white supremacy..


White supremacists believe whites are superior to other races. Wanting a safe space for your people is a matter of segregation. There are actually many mono race/cultured nations in Asia, Middle East, South America and Africa.


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## SG854 (Mar 17, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> I have a copy. He mentions wanting a white nation for white people and he started this mindset over an islam extremist killing a deaf girl in Auckland.
> 
> I only read a small bit, but I didn't see anything about white supremacy like the mainstream media says. Just extreme white nationalism and fear of Islamic extremnists


The thing I hate about the media is that they are not telling the truth about the manifesto.

It’s full of contradictory beliefs, he says he wants no part of conservatism because it’s corporatism in disguise, he says he’s not a Christian, he’s an eco-fascist, he has admiration for communist China, and right wing Cadence Owens pushed him to violence over meekness. Then he says the Spyro: Year of the Dragon game taught him ethno nationalism and Fortnite taught him to floss on the corpses. He says subscribe to PewDiePie (obvious trolling). Do you hear about any of this in the media? Of course not. This made me realize how much I hate the media pushing their fake garbage narrative.

And also people are giving him exaclty what he wanted. He wants both political sides to fight over this, it was a massive trolling event on his part. And people are taking the bait, he knows how deep people are into their ideological beliefs and will fight for their side over this. He’s trying to manipulate and people are giving him want he wants.

The media is is trying to find someone to blame, moslty blaming right wing people. Saying the guys is a trump maga conservative supporter. They’re even blamming Tommy Robibison, and Clinton. Because she said anti Semitism is bad, and that caused the problems we’re seeing. These people are crazy. They are insane in their beliefs, they rationalize it in crazy ways. People are using this as, see my ideological beliefs aren't crazy look what conservatism does.

They used an event where innocent people died to push their ideological beliefs and to get people on their side. Can they give their stupid ideology a rest at least for a bit. The media is manipulative using emotion against people, and they don’t even know the full story themselves on why the guy killed, with his contradictory manifesto, but they still push a false narrative.


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## Ev1l0rd (Mar 17, 2019)

SG854 said:


> It’s full of contradictory beliefs, he says he wants no part of conservatism because it’s corporatism in disguise, he says he’s not a Christian, he’s an eco-fascist, he has admiration for communist China, and right wing Cadence Owens pushed him to violence over meekness. Then he says the Spyro: Year of the Dragon game taught him ethno nationalism and Fortnite taught him to floss on the corpses. He says subscribe to PewDiePie (obvious trolling). Do you hear about any of this in the media? Of course not. This made me realize how much I hate the media pushing their fake garbage narrative.


Alternatively, all of these things clearly indicate that the NZ shooter was motivated by chan culture, and about uh.. 100% of all chan culture is extreme right wing/alt-right politically.


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## notimp (Mar 17, 2019)

Great, so now this thread is about the political motivation of mass shooters.

Not about mental problems, which might be their main motivation.

Who in here wants to talk about the psychology of a mass shooter? Without wanting to drum up politcal motivations to have another round of group mentality fractioning.

What is best A or B? What is best guns, or no guns? What is best dem or rep?

The only thing you never talk about are the issues. Ypu'd rather talk about ideological believes. As if mass shootings in the US now have become part of a new normality...

This thread is rather morbid in that way, you know that?


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## Viri (Mar 17, 2019)

Also, this guy pretty much let himself get caught. There is no death penalty, and he says he wants to waste as much gov tax payer money as he can. And he said that he hopes the gov tries to ban guns, so it can sow dissent.



Tigran said:


> Uh.. White nation for white people is pretty much pure white supremacy..


No it's not.


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## notimp (Mar 17, 2019)

I'll start.

Those guys are in the midset of never mattering in their lives. They usually are subject to heavy peer abuse, and neglect. They are outsiders. They are retracting from social interaction, because to them, talking to their peers is one negative experience after the other.

What builds inside them is a power fantasy that makes all this go away, and let their position be heard. Because they have no other frame of getting there, or achieving part of their goals towards recognition, they resort to the only way to get there - namely in a violent outburst.

Then for about a week, after they are dead or get caught, they will matter, and all the people who hurt them personally will be dead. And many others.

Now - whats the political motivation of that guy? Who cares.

Why do we not share their "manifests"? - Because it lets other potential candidates see, that they got the attention they are striving for through violent action.

What can be done about that - Talk to people you see retracting from social interaction within a social setting. No one did in their case.

Also - believe it or not, gun laws. Not to prevent the stuff from happening, but to reduce the fallout.

The - The entire nation is saddened for your loss - part is there for the relatives of the victims, and is part of their overcoming of tragedy - but at the same time it draws in all kinds of useless bystanders, that feel, that this must be a big thing, and want to talk about the shooters political standing and inner most convictions.

You werent there to prevent this from happening, so why are you interested now? Thats morbid curiosity, and nothing else.

You are welcome to copy paste this under every mass shooting posting this forum most likely will come to witness in the future.

Also do me a favor, and dont lead this in with "I think he hurt pew die pie with this" the next time around.


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## Xzi (Mar 17, 2019)

barronwaffles said:


> He quite literally thought the opposite - that firearm owners in New Zealand were already so neutered that additional restrictions would pass unopposed.


Yeah I guess so.  He thought it would start a controversy _here, _but that won't happen until the next shooting on American soil.  Obviously we're pretty numb to it by now though, and most people are simply burnt out on the argument after we wouldn't even make changes in response to Sandy Hook.


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## Viri (Mar 17, 2019)

What annoyed me about this is how other countries' news outlets handled it. 

In New Zealand, they're not allowed to name him or show his face, which is perfect! Not showing their face or naming him, can help prevent copy cats. But, in the US, they showed his face, named him, went over his life, gave him his 5 minutes of fame. That's exactly what he wants! That's what a lot of mass shooters want. I always believed that mass shooters should never get named, or have their face plastered everywhere, just give them a number, and take away some of their glory.


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## chrisrlink (Mar 17, 2019)

chan is alt right? and here i thought they were just scumbag trolls where pokemon games leak


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## Creatable (Mar 18, 2019)

The shooter's intent was obviously somewhat politically based, however his manifesto is made to completely lead everyone on as none of the ideas in it match up with each other. What he did was essentially "irl trolling" but to a fucked up extreme that is irredeemable.
That manifesto was made to upset every single group possible, to cause chaos and to get people debating over why he did what he did, and to get the media to add their biases as to why he did it -- and it worked. It's the same as trolling kinda, as in you try to get people riled up, but it's much different because he killed loads of people and he actually deserves to die unlike trolls. Basically what I'm trying to say is:

His political beliefs are unclear and you should not assume why he did it as he intentionally made it look like he did it because of different conflicting ideologies in his manifesto.
He did this to upset everyone, and it worked because killing 49 people and giving people reasons to assume he did it for opposing political beliefs will make people fired up.
Fuck him.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 18, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> chan is alt right? and here i thought they were just scumbag trolls where pokemon games leak


The infection started with /pol/ and it slowly took over the entire site.  It's pretty far gone now.



Creatable said:


> His political beliefs are unclear and you should not assume why he did it as he intentionally made it look like he did it because of different conflicting ideologies in his manifesto.


If nothing else it's clear that the guy was a Muslim-hating bigot, and that's a common thread in far-right ideology.


----------



## chrisrlink (Mar 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The infection started with /pol/ and it slowly took over the entire site.  It's pretty far gone now.
> 
> 
> If nothing else it's clear that the guy was a Muslim-hating bigot, and that's a common thread in far-right ideology.


sounds like a politician i know of......shit comes full circle


----------



## Hanafuda (Mar 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> If nothing else it's clear that the guy was a Muslim-hating bigot, and that's a common thread in far-right ideology.




Well, a Muslim-hating bigot who took a vacation to Pakistan 6 months ago and loved the country and the people.


----------



## Xzi (Mar 18, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Well, a Muslim-hating bigot who took a vacation to Pakistan 6 months ago and loved the country and the people.


Radicalization can and often does happen very quickly, particularly with how online groups pursue the most desperate/vulnerable people as targets for it.  Six months is more than enough time to transistion from normal, logical person to xenophobic, bigoted, angry, and paranoid.


----------



## Lazyboss (Mar 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Radicalization can and often does happen very quickly, particularly with how online groups pursue the most desperate/vulnerable people as targets for it.  Six months is more than enough time to transistion from normal, logical person to xenophobic, bigoted, angry, and paranoid.


I agree, 6 months is enough to brainwash anyone, but is it enough to to prepare them for mass shooting? Or is it enough to kill a human heart and make him shoot 4yo Childers?
The media said he was planning this attack from 2 years, it doesn't make sense, the internet is full of lies right now.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 18, 2019)

Creatable said:


> The shooter's intent was obviously somewhat politically based, however his manifesto is made to completely lead everyone on as none of the ideas in it match up with each other. What he did was essentially "irl trolling" but to a fucked up extreme that is irredeemable.
> That manifesto was made to upset every single group possible, to cause chaos and to get people debating over why he did what he did, and to get the media to add their biases as to why he did it -- and it worked. It's the same as trolling kinda, as in you try to get people riled up, but it's much different because he killed loads of people and he actually deserves to die unlike trolls. Basically what I'm trying to say is:
> 
> His political beliefs are unclear and you should not assume why he did it as he intentionally made it look like he did it because of different conflicting ideologies in his manifesto.
> ...


For all we know this guy could’ve hated his life, wanted to end it, then decided “screw it, I’ll kill a bunch of people and screw with people with the manifesto and make them go crazy trying to figure out my motivations.” “That’ll give some entertainment in my sad life. I don’t care, fuck people, my life is going to be over anyways. So i’ll screw with them.”


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## lolboy (Mar 18, 2019)

Viri said:


> What annoyed me about this is how other countries' news outlets handled it.
> 
> In New Zealand, they're not allowed to name him or show his face, which is perfect! Not showing their face or naming him, can help prevent copy cats. But, in the US, they showed his face, named him, went over his life, gave him his 5 minutes of fame. That's exactly what he wants! That's what a lot of mass shooters want. I always believed that mass shooters should never get named, or have their face plastered everywhere, just give them a number, and take away some of their glory.



Today I gained knowledge from you.  Thanks for that.

I never understood why they did not show the faces of such ruthless killers. Always like: "What? Why they protect this killer by hiding his face".
After reading your post, I gained another way of looking at things.


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## kumikochan (Mar 18, 2019)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> The shooting that happened in New Zealand was horrible and I don't think anyone would say otherwise. Now, I didn't read the shooter's manifesto but he apparently spent over two years working on it and then he did _that, _and on his 8chan post he sounds like a typical extreme right-wing though the difference is that this one actually carried out an attack.
> 
> His 8chan post was archived so I've read that and if you want, the link is down below. Don't ask for the video, it's out there but I'm not going near that atrocity.
> 
> ...



Typical extreme right wing ? There have been plenty of terrorist acts by lefties so in your reasoning that should also always be called typical left wing terrorist when it happens. It ain't good what happened and extremist muslims are already calling for vengeance and supposedly a terrorist will attack the train station in Antwerp Belgium because of vengeance. But seriously stop with saying ''typical right wing ''. There's nothing typical about it


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## lolboy (Mar 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Radicalization can and often does happen very quickly, particularly with how online groups pursue the most desperate/vulnerable people as targets for it.  Six months is more than enough time to transistion from normal, logical person to xenophobic, bigoted, angry, and paranoid.



Are people ready to commit such crimes and risk their life in such a short time?


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## Ev1l0rd (Mar 18, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> Typical extreme right wing ? There have been plenty of terrorist acts by lefties so in your reasoning that should also always be called typical left wing terrorist when it happens. It ain't good what happened and extremist muslims are already calling for vengeance and supposedly a terrorist will attack the train station in Antwerp Belgium because of vengeance. But seriously stop with saying ''typical right wing ''. There's nothing typical about it


You dropped the extreme part. He (OP) calls it _typical extreme right wing_ not _right wing_. Also, it's in reference to the shit he (shooter) was spouting before unleashing fire on a bunch of innocents. There is no suggestion that the fact that the shooter opened fire has anything to do with "typical right wing behavior". It's that the shooter was reciting typical extreme right wing bullshit (chan culture pretty much) before opening fire.

Secondly, that's what-about-ism and if it's a legitimate issue should probably not be discussed in the same thread that talks about the shooting, which is horrible (presuming it's true) but probably should get it's own thread.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



lolboy said:


> Are people ready to commit such crimes and risk their life in such a short time?


Some folks are particularly vulnerable to those kinds of ideas. I presume it usually starts with some form of "I'm a waste of space anyway" (which the internet and chan culture specifically can highly feed into) and from there on out, when you radicalize, youre already in the mindset of "I don't care about my personal worth anyway, so might as well unleash hell and ruin my own life to get some form of satisfaction".


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## lolboy (Mar 18, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> Typical extreme right wing ? There have been plenty of terrorist acts by lefties so in your reasoning that should also always be called typical left wing terrorist when it happens. It ain't good what happened and extremist muslims are already calling for vengeance and supposedly a terrorist will attack the train station in Antwerp Belgium because of vengeance. But seriously stop with saying ''typical right wing ''. There's nothing typical about it




Well well well someone got offended by "extreme right wing".


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## Fugelmir (Mar 18, 2019)

During 9/11 plane hijackings, westerners (mainly Americans) were criticized for not ganging up on the terrorists to stop them.

In this disturbing video, the most surprising thing to me is that muslims who are supposed to submit only to god immediately huddled into a corner and started begging the gunman. 

In the back of everyone's mind, they know their religion is a hoax.  

RIP


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## kumikochan (Mar 18, 2019)

Ev1l0rd said:


> You dropped the extreme part. He (OP) calls it _typical extreme right wing_ not _right wing_. Also, it's in reference to the shit he (shooter) was spouting before unleashing fire on a bunch of innocents. There is no suggestion that the fact that the shooter opened fire has anything to do with "typical right wing behavior". It's that the shooter was reciting typical extreme right wing bullshit (chan culture pretty much) before opening fire.
> 
> Secondly, that's what-about-ism and if it's a legitimate issue should probably not be discussed in the same thread that talks about the shooting, which is horrible (presuming it's true) but probably should get it's own thread.
> 
> ...


i didn't drop the extreme part ? I'm not offended by anyone saying extreme right wing but calling it typical since most people view towards right wing people is usually quite extreme and then calling it typical is just a bit 2 much for me. That's like basically saying every right wing person ( leftists always call alt right, extreme right ) is a terrorist wich is bullshit. If he dropped the '' typical '' part in his main post, i would be 100 percent okay with the post


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## Lazyboss (Mar 18, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> During 9/11 plane hijackings, westerners (mainly Americans) were criticized for not ganging up on the terrorists to stop them.
> 
> In this disturbing video, the most surprising thing to me is that muslims who are supposed to submit only to god immediately huddled into a corner and started begging the gunman.
> 
> ...


It's always easy for you to star talking shit about some people who just died few days ago.
What a religion have to do with normal civilians got scared from gun shooting? And where did you even seen them begging? The guy was trying to protect his kids with his body? Or are you using your ass to watch the video?
What kind of a retarded person like you expect those Muslims to do? "oh nice someone is going to kill us so we will go to heaven", don't talk shit about other people religion when you have no idea about it.
I bet you will scream "Mommy" when you hear a gunshot.


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## Fugelmir (Mar 18, 2019)

Lazyboss said:


> It's always easy for you to star talking shit about some people who just died few days ago.
> What a religion have to do with normal civilians got scared from gun shooting? And where did you even seen them begging? The guy was trying to protect his kids with his body? Or are you using your ass to watch the video?
> What kind of a retarded person like you expect those Muslims to do? "oh nice someone is going to kill us so we will go to heaven", don't talk shit about other people religion when you have no idea about it.
> I bet you will scream "Mommy" when you hear a gunshot.



they should be criticized.  It was handled very poorly.  I don't see what you describe in the video.  I saw a man clumsily stumble in front of the gunman then promptly get eliminated.

the video shows what happens when you are totally unprepared.  It showcases the inability of the police state to deal with sudden threats.


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## Lazyboss (Mar 18, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> they should be criticized.  It was handled very poorly.  I don't see what you describe in the video.  I saw a man clumsily stumble in front of the gunman then promptly get eliminated.
> 
> the video shows what happens when you are totally unprepared.  It showcases the inability of the police state to deal with sudden threats.



they should be criticized? 
Sure next time we will let people watch this video before they get shot.
You need eggboy.


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## Viri (Mar 18, 2019)

We've started temporarily blocking a number of sites that are hosting footage of Friday’s terrorist attack in Christchurch. We understand this may inconvenience some legitimate users of these sites, but these are extreme circumstances and we feel this is the right thing to do.— Telstra News (@Telstra_news) March 18, 2019


Perfect time to start blocking sites we deem a nono! I'm sure they're going to block Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter that also shared the video, right?! I sure do love it when a big corporation deems what is okay to look at, and what is not okay to look at.


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## SG854 (Mar 19, 2019)

Viri said:


> https://twitter.com/Telstra_news/status/1107526963583844353
> 
> Perfect time to start blocking sites we deem a nono! I'm sure they're going to block Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter that also shared the video, right?! I sure do love it when a big corporation deems what is okay to look at, and what is not okay to look at.


A bunch of sites are going to step up their censorship and target people on the right, because of the shooting. It’s a bad a idea.

If you wanna create more far right people then blocking them, isolating them, and censoring them is a garanteed way to do it. If they are block from big platforms then they’ll have no where else to go but racist sites and kkk rallies, which will be the only places that accept them. It creates an echo chamber where a bunch of far right people gather, and they’ll go crazier and more extreme because they don’t have any dissenting opinions to challenge their own.

The lady from Westbro Baptist church became less crazy after she has been exposed to the internet, and to different opinions. People can change. But blocking them guarantees that change won’t happen, and will create more far right people.


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## Viri (Mar 19, 2019)

I dunno how I feel about the video. While at the same time, people watching his video, is exactly what the shooter wants, he loves the glory! But, at the same time, I don't like the idea of the gov, and isp telling you what video you should or should not watch. 

Arresting people, or telling people they're going to be fined if they have the video is just going to cause a "Streisand effect" though.


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## Fugelmir (Mar 19, 2019)

Viri said:


> I dunno how I feel about the video. While at the same time, people watching his video, is exactly what the shooter wants, he loves the glory! But, at the same time, I don't like the idea of the gov, and isp telling you what video you should or should not watch.
> 
> Arresting people, or telling people they're going to be fined if they have the video is just going to cause a "Streisand effect" though.




We have a very dishonest mainstream media that we struggle with to get accurate information.

This whole situation was fishy from the getgo.  They described him as an Eco terrorist that chose to shoot up a mosque of all places.    That certainly isn't the impression the video gives.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 19, 2019)

For cases in which there is no doubt about the guilt of a person, mass murderers should not only be killed but even tortured. Simply to prevent copy cats as best as possible. It is simply ridiculous that this monster will be fed and taken care of in a relatively nice prison (New Zealand has nice prisons, I assume).

That being said I'm surprised at how much media and political attention is given to this terror attack.
The 2014 Kunming attack in China was barely mentioned. Numerous articles even mentioned the Uyghurs being slowly replaced by Han-Chinese in their own lands [which is technically China; it would be like Bavarians replacing Sachons in Sachsony] - thereby indirectly giving justification for the attack. 35 people died 143 (!) were injured. The attack did not even take place in the terrorists's homelands (kind of like the New Zealand attack not being committed in Europe).
Can you imagine an article like this?
_"White man shoots at people in two mosques. 50 people died. The government calls it a "terrorist attack". There are a lot of tensions between white people and Muslims since the former are slowly replaced due to government policies"_
-> Unimaginable, right? Especially right after the attack. Well, I read mainstream articles like this about China.

If you think about it, Islam is a glorified/theologized version of Arab supremacy just as Judaism is Semitism. I guess religions are given a pass.


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## AsPika2219 (Mar 21, 2019)

I hate war!  And now... 1 person from my country Malaysia was dead by random shooting.... Here the news!

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/c...aysian-missing-in-nz-shooting-confirmed-dead/

Right now, only 3 person was injured and 1 person was dead by shooting attack.


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## Xzi (Mar 21, 2019)

SG854 said:


> If you wanna create more far right people then blocking them, isolating them, and censoring them is a garanteed way to do it.


_Some_ countries have top-notch mental healthcare treatment facilities, but not nearly enough.  In that way we agree.  Honestly though, if a person chooses to turn to Nazism of all "solutions" for the problems in their life, they can rot in jail until they get shanked for all I give a fuck.  It's a violent ideology, and such violent delights have violent ends.  Or "live by the sword, die by the sword" if you prefer a more classical euphemism.


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## Fugelmir (Mar 21, 2019)

I've been seeing some news about the mosque in question being tied to terrorism.  If that's true, this would almost be identical in results to a drone strike.

Kill a couple terrorists, scores of innocents consequently become casualties.  It'll be very interesting to watch as more details emerge.


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## Xzi (Mar 21, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> I've been seeing some news about the mosque in question being tied to terrorism.  If that's true, this would almost be identical in results to a drone strike.
> 
> Kill a couple terrorists, scores of innocents consequently become casualties.  It'll be very interesting to watch as more details emerge.


This is fucking disgusting.  It's like saying, "I've been seeing some news about the children at Sandy Hook being tied to Communism.  Totally justifies the murders."  Seriously man, have a little goddamn tact and civility.  Just a little.


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## Fugelmir (Mar 21, 2019)

Xzi said:


> This is fucking disgusting.  It's like saying, "I've been seeing some news about the children at Sandy Hook being tied to Communism.  Totally justifies the murders."  Seriously man, have a little goddamn tact and civility.  Just a little.



I'm not saying anything justifies anything -- we don't know enough yet.  But, if he was a planted agent, it's a very extreme way to accomplish the objective.


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## Doran754 (Mar 21, 2019)

Xzi said:


> _Some_ countries have top-notch mental healthcare treatment facilities, but not nearly enough.  In that way we agree.  Honestly though, if a person chooses to turn to Nazism of all "solutions" for the problems in their life, they can rot in jail until they get shanked for all I give a fuck.  It's a violent ideology, and such violent delights have violent ends.  Or "live by the sword, die by the sword" if you prefer a more classical euphemism.



Any chance you're a member of antifa?


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## Xzi (Mar 21, 2019)

shamzie said:


> Any chance you're a member of antifa?


Nope, just carrying on the great American tradition of Nazi-bashing.


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## Doran754 (Mar 21, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Nope, just carrying on the great American tradition of Nazi-bashing.



Nazi's have been gone a very long time, and to equate people you disagree with politically to jew murdering scum is pretty disrespectful, but that's fine as you probably think you're justified and on the right side of history. I can't quite think who the quote came from but it was something along the lines of If i punch 1000 white people and only 1 is a nazi, It's justified. You sound exactly the same. " I abhor violence and if you disagree I hope you get shanked and die" Sounds reasonable. But hey, you do you.


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## Xzi (Mar 21, 2019)

shamzie said:


> Nazi's have been gone a very long time, and to equate people you disagree with politically to jew murdering scum is pretty disrespectful, but that's fine as you probably think you're justified and on the right side of history. I can't quite think who the quote came from but it was something along the lines of If i punch 1000 white people and only 1 is a nazi, It's justified. You sound exactly the same. " I abhor violence and if you disagree I hope you get shanked and die" Sounds reasonable. But hey, you do you.


Nazis might be gone, but a neo-Nazi ain't any better.  Still ain't got no humanity.

And I'm not one to walk around randomly punching anybody.  You pretend like these people aren't happy to identify themselves whenever and wherever they can.


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## Glyptofane (Mar 21, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Nazis might be gone, but a neo-Nazi ain't any better.  Still ain't got no humanity.
> 
> And I'm not one to walk around randomly punching anybody.  You pretend like these people aren't happy to identify themselves whenever and wherever they can.


It's NEON Nazi now, because no one actually identifies with the term, that's just what you guys and the media call them. Even alt-right is kind of a nebulous term. The current movement focuses on education of lies and crimes of a certain advantaged group and actually disavows violence. Every now and then we get Loony Tunes like this shooter who set the entire movement back. They are not crazed killers like the Democrat created KKK anymore.

You're a cool guy though, Xzi. I like you. Lacius on the other hand threatened to monitor anything I said which offended him and report it to mods.


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## Viri (Mar 23, 2019)

So, I guess this is what it's like to have net neutrality repealed.


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## Subtle Demise (Mar 23, 2019)

Kingy_ said:


> It's not this site's fault- The New Zealand police has requested that people don't share the PDF or video.


Is this site hosted in NZ? Did New Zealand take the mantle of world police from US and England? The way I see it, the shooter got what he wanted. Censorship and political division.  The same way the terrorists that did 9/11 pretty much ensured the complete erosion of American freedom. Instead of arming ourselves and shooting back, we're letting the terrorists in our own governments and also abroad win.


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> Is this site hosted in NZ? Did New Zealand take the mantle of world police from US and England? The way I see it, the shooter got what he wanted. Censorship and political division.  The same way the terrorists that did 9/11 pretty much ensured the complete erosion of American freedom. Instead of arming ourselves and shooting back, we're letting the terrorists in our own governments and also abroad win.


Eh, I'm all for freedom of speech, but I still don't see how trying to scrub this video as much as possible makes the terrorists "win."  Watching people get shot isn't going to provide any new or useful information to anybody.


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## SG854 (Mar 23, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> Is this site hosted in NZ? Did New Zealand take the mantle of world police from US and England? The way I see it, the shooter got what he wanted. Censorship and political division.  The same way the terrorists that did 9/11 pretty much ensured the complete erosion of American freedom. Instead of arming ourselves and shooting back, we're letting the terrorists in our own governments and also abroad win.


They’rw banning and burning books too. They banned Jordan Peterson’s book. Which is ridiculous because it’s a self help book from a clinical psychologist, but since everyone that disagrees with them is labeled alt right, their stuff gets banned. It’s agree with me or you we’ll censor you. It’s turning to a 1984 Orwellian nightmare.


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

SG854 said:


> They’rw banning and burning books too. They banned Jordan Peterson’s book. Which is ridiculous because it’s a self help book from a clinical psychologist, but since everyone that disagrees with them is labeled alt right, their stuff gets banned. It’s agree with me or you we’ll censor you. It’s turning to a 1984 Orwellian nightmare.


It was banned by a single reseller, not the country.  So that's a matter of the business' rights, though I know the right-wing hates it when that doesn't play in their favor.


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## SG854 (Mar 23, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It was banned by a single reseller, not the country.  So that's a matter of the business' rights, though I know the right-wing hates it when that doesn't play in their favor.


What does right wing has to do with it? His book is hardly about politics. It’s a book from a psychologist to help people.


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

SG854 said:


> What does right wing has to do with it? His book is hardly about politics. It’s a book from a psychologist to help people.


Jordan Peterson rarely stays away from the topic of politics, and he doesn't try to keep it a secret that he sides with the far-right.  The reasoning doesn't really matter though, a business is free to stop carrying a product for any reason they see fit.  At least, that's the way it is in the US, and I'm assuming NZ is similar in that regard.


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## SG854 (Mar 23, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Jordan Peterson rarely stays away from the topic of politics, and he doesn't try to keep it a secret that he sides with the far-right.  The reasoning doesn't really matter though, a business is free to stop carrying a product for any reason they see fit.  At least, that's the way it is in the US, and I'm assuming NZ is similar in that regard.


His book is a self help book. People have benefited from his book and lives became better. And this just isn’t one book they are going to be banning. With the way they been blocking social media and access to information.

He does not with the fat right, that is so ridiculous. Stop paying attention to the crap media that makes lies about him. I seen his talks and his lectures on psychology, he’s hardly far right.


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

SG854 said:


> His book is a self help book. People have benefited from his book and lives became better.


Who cares.  There are millions, if not billions, of self-help books.  And all of them have testimonies that they "made lives become better."

You ask me, nobody needs a book to help themselves rofl.  You either have the capability in you or you don't.  It would be really nice if this country had _any_ sort of mental healthcare system in place in order to help those that _can't_ help themselves, though.  Y'know, before they turn to terrorism just to get their name on the news.


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## SG854 (Mar 23, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Who cares.  There are millions, if not billions, of self-help books.  And all of them have testimonies that they "made lives become better."
> 
> You ask me, nobody needs a book to help themselves rofl.  You either have the capability in you or you don't.  It would be really nice if this country had _any_ sort of mental healthcare system in place in order to help those that _can't_ help themselves, though.  Y'know, before they turn to terrorism just to get their name on the news.


Why are you even trying to argue that banning is a good thing? What are you even arguing?

You know what banning his book is going to do right? It’s going to convince people that they are after the right and trying to silencing them. And it will add to their belief globalist nationalist belief that the left is trying to silence people and control them. This will push more people to the far right then Jordan Peterson books ever have. And Jordan Peterson self help book is hardly about politics at all.


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

SG854 said:


> He does not with the fat right, that is so ridiculous. Stop paying attention to the crap media that makes lies about him. I seen his talks and his lectures on psychology, he’s hardly far right.


About that..._this_ is the image which circulated after the NZ shooting, which is likely what got his book banned by the retailer there:



Spoiler












He's not exactly shying away from this guy.



SG854 said:


> Why are you even trying to argue that banning is a good thing? What are you even arguing?


I'm not arguing anything at this point, I've already stated the facts: a retailer is free to stop carrying any product they wish, for any reason.


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## SG854 (Mar 23, 2019)

Xzi said:


> About that..._this_ is the image which circulated after the NZ shooting, which is likely what got his book banned by the retailer there:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh c’mon learn the context of the situation


----------



## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

SG854 said:


> Oh c’mon learn the context of the situation


When has any corporation ever given a fuck about context?  They only care about what is going to affect their bottom line, and if they're a NZ-specific retailer, even more reason to side with the locals over this type of douchery.


----------



## Deleted User (Mar 23, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> We have a very dishonest mainstream media that we struggle with to get accurate information.
> 
> This whole situation was fishy from the getgo.  They described him as an Eco terrorist that chose to shoot up a mosque of all places.    That certainly isn't the impression the video gives.


For those of us who aren't comfortable watching a mass shooting video, what part of it makes you say that?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SG854 said:


> His book is a self help book. People have benefited from his book and lives became better.


New Zealand is very anti self help and pro forcing you to use state sponsored help which either abandons you or makes things worse.


----------



## SG854 (Mar 23, 2019)

Xzi said:


> When has any corporation ever given a fuck about context?  They only care about what is going to affect their bottom line, and if they're a NZ-specific retailer, even more reason to side with the locals over this type of douchery.


Context matters a lot. If they are scared what happenes to their bottom line then why ban the book. Peterson is very popular.

Him calling out the far right.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1106389845335859201?s=09


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

SG854 said:


> If they are scared what happenes to their bottom line then why ban the book. Peterson is very popular.


Popular in New Zealand?  Doubtful.  Banning it from their store after the photo garners them a lot more positive PR, more sales as a result of that would just be the cherry on top.



SG854 said:


> Him calling out the far right.
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1106389845335859201?s=09


That's not the way these types of sponsorships/reseller agreements work.  Once it's been revoked, it's been revoked.  They aren't going to bring his book back the next week because he's trying to appear neutral _now._


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## Fugelmir (Mar 23, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> For those of us who aren't comfortable watching a mass shooting video, what part of it makes you say that?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



The video shows a man less concerned with causing harm than death.  He kills everyone with a head mounted camera which makes it feel like a videogame.  After killing most of the mosque, he proceeds empty 4 magazines into the pile of corpses ensuring that no one survived.  

After he leaves the mosque, he grabs a can of fuel, seemingly to set the place on fire, but ultimately doesn't.  On his way out, he notices a girl walking by on the street and fires at her twice.  

She falls down on the sidewalk begging for people on the other side of the street to help her.  Shooter notices this.  Puts a bullet in her jaw, and another one in her temple shooting skull and brain matter several feet into the road.

Were he a sadist, he would probably have left these people alive to suffer. It was very professionally done for the most part and very calculated.  So, I'm not sure what to think here.  

The anti gun rhetoric is alarming.  This guy doesn't even follow the "don't murder people" law.  I really don't believe he would follow the "no gun" laws.


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## Xzi (Mar 23, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> Were he a sadist, he would probably have left these people alive to suffer. It was very professionally done for the most part and very calculated. So, I'm not sure what to think here.


What the fuck.  How does that make it in any way better?



Fugelmir said:


> The anti gun rhetoric is alarming. This guy doesn't even follow the "don't murder people" law. I really don't believe he would follow the "no gun" laws.


This guy wasn't even a native of NZ.  The idea is to have fewer semi-autos easily available to anyone in the country, it's not just about one case.


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## Fugelmir (Mar 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> What the fuck.  How does that make it in any way better?



Him being a sadist would imply it was a cathartic experience and might signify it being a result of mental illness  --> solve the problem with increased mental health services.

The shooter's passport and authorities he had visited Israel, and the United States, and Europe.  His family said he was radicalized in Europe: in Cypress.   So it's hard to know his motives given the background.


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## Xzi (Mar 24, 2019)

Fugelmir said:


> Him being a sadist would imply it was a cathartic experience and might signify it being a result of mental illness  --> solve the problem with increased mental health services.


Dude was clearly mentally ill.  No question about that.  The exact type of mental illness doesn't matter.


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## supersonicwaffle (Mar 24, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Jordan Peterson rarely stays away from the topic of politics, and he doesn't try to keep it a secret that he sides with the far-right.  The reasoning doesn't really matter though, a business is free to stop carrying a product for any reason they see fit.  At least, that's the way it is in the US, and I'm assuming NZ is similar in that regard.



Jordan Peterson has a degree in political science so it wouldn't be too surprising he doesn't shy away from political discussion.
I'm genuinely curious about your assertion that he openly sides with the far-right. Can you give any examples? I have seen some interviews with him but pretty much nothing of his original conent.


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## Doran754 (Mar 24, 2019)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Jordan Peterson has a degree in political science so it wouldn't be too surprising he doesn't shy away from political discussion.
> I'm genuinely curious about your assertion that he openly sides with the far-right. Can you give any examples? I have seen some interviews with him but pretty much nothing of his original conent.



I wouldn't bother, the little time i've spent on this site over the last 48 hours has showed me Xzi is as far left as they come, anti free speech pro censorship (of the right) but denies being a ring leader of antifa.


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## Xzi (Mar 24, 2019)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Jordan Peterson has a degree in political science so it wouldn't be too surprising he doesn't shy away from political discussion.
> I'm genuinely curious about your assertion that he openly sides with the far-right. Can you give any examples? I have seen some interviews with him but pretty much nothing of his original conent.


Well, calling him far-right might be a bit harsh, but he definitely leans in that direction.  Was not smart posting a picture of himself with a guy who's shirt declares him a "proud Islamophobe" right after the NZ attack.  You'd think Peterson would be better at avoiding bad PR by now.  Assuming he even tried to avoid it, anyway.



shamzie said:


> I wouldn't bother, the little time i've spent on this site over the last 48 hours has showed me Xzi is as far left as they come, anti free speech pro censorship (of the right) but denies being a ring leader of antifa.


Ho boy, you got me.  I'm a far-left antifa Socialist just like FDR.


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## supersonicwaffle (Mar 25, 2019)

shamzie said:


> I wouldn't bother, the little time i've spent on this site over the last 48 hours has showed me Xzi is as far left as they come, anti free speech pro censorship (of the right) but denies being a ring leader of antifa.



And I've also talked to people openly supporting Nazis on here. If I'm unwilling to learn about other people's views I'm gonna die a narrow minded idiot. But you do you.



Xzi said:


> Well, calling him far-right might be a bit harsh, but he definitely leans in that direction. Was not smart posting a picture of himself with a guy who's shirt declares him a "proud Islamophobe" right after the NZ attack. You'd think Peterson would be better at avoiding bad PR by now. Assuming he even tried to avoid it, anyway.



I got a feeling you're gonna keep moving him to the left if I keep asking for examples.


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## Xzi (Mar 25, 2019)

supersonicwaffle said:


> I got a feeling you're gonna keep moving him to the left if I keep asking for examples.


Nah, prior to the NZ shooting, most of his political rhetoric was about how the entirety of the left had become extremists.  After the shooting, and his subsequent book banning, he decided to call out the far right for once.  Which seems disingenuous at that point.


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## supersonicwaffle (Mar 25, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Nah, prior to the NZ shooting, most of his political rhetoric was about how the entirety of the left had become extremists.  After the shooting, and his subsequent book banning, he decided to call out the far right for once.  Which seems disingenuous at that point.



See this is why I ask about examples. I have a feeling we got a different idea of what the far right is. In the interviews I've seen he regularly expresses his disgust for the alt-right, racists, nazis, etc.


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## Xzi (Mar 25, 2019)

supersonicwaffle said:


> See this is why I ask about examples. I have a feeling we got a different idea of what the far right is. In the interviews I've seen he regularly expresses his disgust for the alt-right, racists, nazis, etc.


Whether that's true or not, it then complete undercuts his sincerity when he happily takes pictures with those types.

All you have to do is look at his Wikipedia page to note that some of his views are heavily right-leaning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Postmodernism_and_identity_politics



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Peterson's perspective on the influence of postmodernism on North American humanities departments has been compared to Cultural Marxist conspiracy theories.[38][71][72][73]
> 
> Peterson says that "disciplines like women's studies should be defunded" and advises freshman students to avoid subjects like sociology, anthropology, English literature, ethnic studies and racial studies, as well as other fields of study he believes are corrupted by the Neo-Marxist ideology.[74][75][76] He says that these fields, under the pretense of academic inquiry, propagate unscientific methods, fraudulent peer-review processes for academic journals, publications that garner zero citations,[77] cult-like behaviour,[75] safe-spaces,[74] and radical left-wing political activism for students.[65] Peterson has proposed launching a website which uses artificial intelligence to identify and showcase the amount of ideologization in specific courses. He announced in November 2017 that he had temporarily postponed the project as "it might add excessively to current polarization".[78][79]
> 
> Peterson has criticized the use of the term "white privilege", stating that "being called out on their white privilege, identified with a particular racial group and then made to suffer the consequences of the existence of that racial group and its hypothetical crimes, and that sort of thing has to come to a stop. ... [It's] racist in its extreme".[65] In regard to identity politics, while the "left plays them on behalf of the oppressed, let's say, and the right tends to play them on behalf of nationalism and ethnic pride" he considers them "equally dangerous" and that instead should be emphasized individualism and individual responsibility.[80] He has also been prominent in the debate about cultural appropriation, stating it promotes self-censorship in society and journalism.[81]



Basically his philosophy boils down to, "I don't have to accept that I'm getting old and out of touch, it's the children who are wrong!  Anything I dislike is a neo-Marxist conspiracy!"


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## SG854 (Mar 25, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Whether that's true or not, it then complete undercuts his sincerity when he happily takes pictures with those types.
> 
> All you have to do is look at his Wikipedia page to note that some of his views are heavily right-leaning.


So? I didn’t know being right wing was a sin.



Xzi said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Postmodernism_and_identity_politics
> 
> 
> 
> Basically his philosophy boils down to, "I don't have to accept that I'm getting old and out of touch, it's the children who are wrong!  Anything I dislike is a neo-Marxist conspiracy!"


Man you are so out of touch of what’s going on it’s sad. I know people have previously criticized for having an unhealthy illogical obsession against right wingers and it suspends any thinking you have.

If you read that wiki article it explains exaclty what the problems are and he’s right.

Women’s studies, Racial Studies, sociology, do not use the scientific method. They just come up with a hypothesis and never test it. This is a huge problem in the academic world and pushes false ideas. They are fraudulent courses and have been exposed by scientists to be garbage.

And the same wiki article he complains about both left wing and right wing ideologies. Are you purposely being selective and only focusing on what you want to focus? It says he considers leftists identity politics and right wing nationalism to be equally bad. 

I feel like you just don’t want to like him, so your doing whatever you can to find as many flaws as you can, without seeing the whole picture on what he actually represents only because you think he’s right winger, and you want to score points against right wingers, “you see right wingers are bad!” Your purposely being disingenuous.


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## supersonicwaffle (Mar 25, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Whether that's true or not, it then complete undercuts his sincerity when he happily takes pictures with those types.



Even if what I'm going to say is gonna come off as such, I don't even want to defend the pic but there's an elephant in the room that needs to be addressed.
There's a decently sized list of prominent left wing figures who are very critical of Islam for the same reasons listed on the person's t-shirt. Are we gonna say Bill Maher is alt-right now? The Shirt even states he hates / dislikes (can't be made out) Islam but not the individual.
Here's a higher res picture:






I posed a similar question to the following to you in another thread a while ago and IIRC you chose not to respond. Polls show that a majority of british muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal, what do we do about it?



> All you have to do is look at his Wikipedia page to note that some of his views are heavily right-leaning.



So we went from far-right to leaning far-right to right-leaning. I will take credit for predicting you're gonna move him leftwards when asking to explain it.



> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Postmodernism_and_identity_politics
> 
> 
> 
> Basically his philosophy boils down to, "I don't have to accept that I'm getting old and out of touch, it's the children who are wrong!  Anything I dislike is a neo-Marxist conspiracy!"



OK, let me try to understand you here. Grievance studies showed how incredibly flawed the peer review proccess is in these fields to the point it should be investigated whether all of it should be thrown out because any work done will likely reference work that has gone through the same flawed proccess but we should turn a blind eye because they're grumpy old men?

BTW, the last quoted paragraph from Wikipedia says that he considers identity politics from both the left and right to be equally dangerous. Are we gonna ignore this?


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## Xzi (Mar 25, 2019)

SG854 said:


> So? I didn’t know being right wing was a sin.


I never said it was rofl.  I was asked to provide examples of his political leanings and I gave them, that's all.  Certainly not the type of guy I would espouse any credibility to, but I don't really care if other people do.  Just don't pretend it's a surprise when he gets his book banned in a certain country for acting extremely inconsiderate toward the victims of a mass shooting.  I'm seeing a lot of ludicrous victim-blaming coming from you and supersonicwaffle too.


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## supersonicwaffle (Mar 25, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I never said it was rofl.  I was asked to provide examples of his political leanings and I gave them, that's all.  Certainly not the type of guy I would espouse any credibility to, but I don't really care if other people do.  Just don't pretend it's a surprise when he gets his book banned in a certain country for acting extremely inconsiderate toward the victims of a mass shooting.  I'm seeing a lot of ludicrous victim-blaming coming from you and supersonicwaffle too.



To tell you the truth, only after I posted my last post I noticed we were still in the NZ shooting thread, which I agree isn't a good place to bring up these arguments and I apologize for that.

Since I wasn't aware of that when I typed out my response I didn't consider that this could be seen as victim blaming, which wasn't my intention.

This is not the right place to have this discussion about Islam, but I do hope you'll respond to the issue one day.


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