# Your thoughts on suicide



## ehayes427 (Jan 14, 2011)

hey guys, in one of my classes i have to write an essay on conflicts going on in the world.
i chose to write about suicide.

i just wanted to get a few of your opinions on the topic, whether you believe it's the persons' choice, or if it's a selfish decision.

ps, no i'm not committing it!

THANKS!


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## The Catboy (Jan 14, 2011)

Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.


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## 431unknown (Jan 14, 2011)

well while i don't really condone it for people who are fed up with life, i feel that if your on your death bed and in immense pain it should be legal to kill yourself. why prolong the needless suffering? we have no problem putting our pets down if they are dying and suffering and when we do we tell ourselves it was the "humane thing to do".


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## Son of Science (Jan 14, 2011)

Just do it, Maggot.


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## _Chaz_ (Jan 14, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
> Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.
> This is almost exactly what I was going to post.
> 
> QUOTE(Son of Science @ Jan 14 2011, 03:04 PM) Just do it, Maggot.


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## Devin (Jan 14, 2011)

People opinions are gonna go a couple ways....

1. Those people are pathetic, they deserve to die. 

2. They are selfish, and don't think about who they will affect.

3. It's their life, let them do what they want.

4. They are people that never got help. (Mental help.)

5. They are people that think the worlds ending because they had a bad day/week/month/year.

I believe I missing some opinions, but you get the gist of it.


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## Paarish (Jan 14, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
> Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.



took the words out of my mouth.

When I had feelings of wanting to suicide, I said "No! I'm not gonna let the world keep me down!". I pick myself up and I perservere!


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## ibis_87 (Jan 14, 2011)

No, never. One has to keep struggling. Always. No giving up.


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## Wabsta (Jan 14, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
> Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.


Totally this.


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## JackSakamoto (Jan 14, 2011)

I love suicide, I practice every day.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





No, really ... Suicide is a bu***'[email protected]$£**it, never do that, you end up in nothing (I'm serious here.)


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## ehayes427 (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys!


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## Canonbeat234 (Jan 15, 2011)

Suicide is such a huge problem with our lives today, the thought of people taking their lives is like a mishap that could have been prevented. Most people don't why it happens, personally its the bleak of your darkness.

If we all know from deep down despite how fucked up life can get, despite our shortcomings we can still smile and do better.
We know that aren't perfect this too shall come to pass. When a person want to commit it, its that visual tunnel in the mind getting narrowier and narrowier...An individual thought can pull you out of it, think of Anime for instance. (No really,) You don't give up because its harder, you get stronger each time you fall.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
> Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.


Weak? So what's strength? Suffering? Maybe you should poke your eyes out with scalding skewers as a feat of strength?

Selfish? You know what's selfish? Thinking that someone in a world of darkness should remain there indefinitely so you feel a little less bad.

Death is the escape. I take comfort in the fact that if life ever became too much for me, that escape is available to me.


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## Tokyo Jihen (Jan 15, 2011)

People who commit suicide do it because they think there is no other way out; they're extremely desperate. I sympathize for them. I don't think it is selfish at all. For a human to want to take their life, they must be suffering deeply mentally or physically. I would understand if someone who felt immense pain daily would want to take their life, and I would respect their choice. I used to believe it selfish for others to commit suicide and leave their family and friends behind, but I have broadened my views and I understand why some do it. 

It's hard for people like me, who has a decent and content life to see how suicide is cowardly, but it's one sided because we've never experienced it.


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

well, all you get from here really is opinions from people who won't commit suicide. 

i wanted to do it once, twice but i never get to do it since i still have some people around me. 

if i still want to commit suicide though, i'd also want my whole existence to be erased, since it will only bring sadness to the people who cares for me.



			
				Urza said:
			
		

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1. i think he means weak in a way that the person who committed suicide is afraid of facing what will happen next and just gave up. 
2. still thinking about it...
3. death is the escape yes, but that proves you're afraid of failing yourself further in life.


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

It's downright selfish, throughout the world, if one person believes he has no one who loves him, he hates his life (this can be a girl to, just not adding the "s"), no one who believes in him and then takes his own life is just a moron, no matter what, there is someone who will always grieve for you, even if they do not know you, there will always be someone who can help you, but they might choose to disregard the chance to get better, suicide is based on someones mental state, there are lots of people who can help, hell, I get so stressed sometimes (sure others do as well) that it could lead to suicide, I've never looked down that road myself but the fact that it can lead to suicide still stands.

tl;dr: Completely wrong and selfish for someone to do it.


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## B-Blue (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> Death is the escape. I take comfort in the fact that if life ever became too much for me, that escape is available to me.



Escape? Escape to where and from what?! From life being "too much"?
Are your certain that when you "escape" life you're going to a better place? You don't know that.
I agree with you it's not selfish, but it's definitely a weak thing to.

Sorry but this is the first time I have ever disagreed with you, Urza. 

I am disappoint


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## Evo.lve (Jan 15, 2011)

B-Blue said:
			
		

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*clicks Approve :-)*


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

B-Blue said:
			
		

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And what's wrong with weakness if it prevents suffering?

Death is an unknown. You may not know where you're going, but rolling the dice for peace may be better than continuing through whatever hell you're in currently.


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> *Death is an unknown.* You may not know where you're going, but rolling the dice for peace may be better than continuing through whatever hell you're in currently.



by saying that, you made me think:

yeah death is unknown so it became harder for my choices.
1. what if i die then the world gets better? i don't want to regret that.
2. what if i don't die then the world didn't change and it's better where i will go when i die? i should have stayed.
3. what if i die and the world gets better and where i go is worse? pity me.

i guess i'll get crazy first.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Suicide suicide suicide.

To be completely honest, I don't feel there is a way to justify it. There is always a way out that isn't selfishly ending it. For people that consider it a true option, man the fuck up. When you think you've had it bad, there will always be somebody that has had it substantially worse. Yet they keep going, keep fighting. What makes any person think they should just get to up and quit?

It is beyond selfish. Even considering it shows your total lack of humanity and care for those that care about you. Those who commit suicide never truly think of what they are doing and how it will affect everybody they know that cares for them. The idea of what I think about suicide has been brought up to me at various stages in life, and my opinion has become solidified beyond all doubt.

Suicide is the cowards way out. There is no justification, there are only excuses.


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## Tokyo Jihen (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> Suicide suicide suicide.
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> To be completely honest, I don't feel there is a way to justify it. There is always a way out that isn't selfishly ending it. For people that consider it a true option, man the fuck up. When you think you've had it bad, there will always be somebody that has had it substantially worse. Yet they keep going, keep fighting. What makes any person think they should just get to up and quit?
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What if you literally have the worst life in the world? Is that justified?


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## Skyline969 (Jan 15, 2011)

It's a fucking stupid thing to even consider. I've lost several people to it, and they chose it over trivial reasons, such as spousal issues or getting into a fight at school. It's no way out, and those who choose it over a constructive solution are weak. And, and this is going to sound kind of dickish, but the people who decide to do it deserve it. If you're that stupid, then maybe you deserve it. Those who are strong and decide to actually work at things to better themselves and fix the situation, they're the ones who I'm proud of for helping themselves. The rest... well, that's Darwinism for you.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> Suicide suicide suicide.
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> To be completely honest, I don't feel there is a way to justify it. There is always a way out that isn't selfishly ending it. For people that consider it a true option, man the fuck up. When you think you've had it bad, there will always be somebody that has had it substantially worse. Yet they keep going, keep fighting. What makes any person think they should just get to up and quit?
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You don't find it selfish to try and force someone else to live out a miserable existence for your own gain?


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## Phoenix Goddess (Jan 15, 2011)

becat said:
			
		

> What if you literally have the worst life in the world? Is that justified?



What *is* the worst life in the world? Whatever you think you're going through, someone's always going through something worse.
There is no "literally", it's a matter of opinion.


Some think suicide is a way out and some do not.
Some of us may think it's selfish, while others will think it leads to a better life than the hell they're suffering in.
Either way, no one knows what happens after you die, so how can we say whether or not it'll be worse or better?
The thing is, we'll never know.


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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But the person who is considering suicide is putting the people who love and care for them through hell, so it maybe selfish but it's better than letting the person take their own life...

EDIT: PG said it all.


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## Tokyo Jihen (Jan 15, 2011)

phoenixgoddess27 said:
			
		

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Yes, it's all subjective, so I think it's foolish to say "There are people with worse lives out there, suck it up."


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

gifi4 said:
			
		

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So if being selfish is fine, what's the problem with suicide?

Or is it only okay for _other_ people to be selfish?


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> You don't find it selfish to try and force someone else to live out a miserable existence for your own gain?



For my own gain? What would one gain out of not having a loved for or cared for person not selfishly kill themselves? If anything, the suicide helps people gain things such as depression, excessive amounts of stress that lead to health problems, all kinds of negative affects because you couldn't accept and change your own life. It's like dominoes. You commit suicide, a very close person can't handle it, enters a deep depression, kills them self, and it just repeats. Most people don't handle death well, even if they didn't know the person. For those people, it becomes substantially worse when it is somebody even remotely close.

As I said before, there is no justification for suicide. You can make every excuse in the book trying to make it seem even minutely justified, and it will just sound selfish as can be.

What do you gain by killing yourself? A decent into the potentially worse unknown? I personally believe there is nothing after. You're worm food, you're just feeding the soil. Who would want that, to just not exist anymore? There is always help, always. If somebody has the time to strongly consider suicide as an option, they have the time to get help.

Harden the fuck up is the best advice that can be given.

Normally, I would say do what makes you happy, screw what everybody else thinks. This is one of very few exceptions I can think of where it will blatantly hurt others.


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## [M]artin (Jan 15, 2011)

All I can say about suicide is: *-1 on your total score, no respawns LOL*


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

gifi4 said:
			
		

> But the person who is considering suicide is putting the people who love and care for them through hell, so it maybe selfish but it's better than letting the person take their own life...
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> EDIT: PG said it all.



well, who must sacrifice then? the relatives or the person who wants to commit suicide? take your pick.


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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The thing is, the only unselfish way to get out of this would be if everyone else wanted this person dead, but I don't think that would be the case, if it is nescessary to be selfish, I'd rather be selfish and only hurt one person instead of being selfish and hurting lots of people (loved ones, etc.)

@game01
read what I just wrote, it basically answers your question


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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If you believe there's nothing afterward, what reason do you have not to kill yourself? Does it really matter if you live another 40 years or 40 seconds, if you're dead at the end anyways?


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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I did! and maybe wanting it again.


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## Aeladya (Jan 15, 2011)

You don't know how many times I seriously thought about suicide. My birth mother is mentally unstable and extremely abusive, while my father is a selfish asshole who only cares about himself. Occasionally he will do something for me that shocks the shit out of me, I guess to make it seem like he isn't so self absorbed, but we all know the truth. My father didn't even want me to be born. My mother abandoned me with my grandparents, and my father pretty much did the same. He wonders now why what on Earth I have to be depressed about. I have severe trust issues and self-esteem issues as well. Some days I thought it would be better just to end it. One of my best friends in high school killed himself. We both went to therapy together, well he went after me. I heard that his parents didn't want him so he was abandoned to his grandparents, but truth be told they didn't want him either, they just took him in because they felt they had to. Every time I think about wanting to kill myself I remember that even though my parents didn't want me, I still do have family and friends that care, that love me. I think that I have to be brave for my friend and try to live for him. I'm on medication now and have not seriously thought of suicide (although if I die it might be due to wasting away to nothing as this medication makes me have zero appetite, both a good thing and a bad thing as I tend to eat when depressed, on the bright side I've already lost some weight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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I do have ill thoughts about those who threaten it just to get attention. I've had friends who have done it and apparently my birth mother has done so several times (my birth father even offered to help her once just to prove she wasn't going to do it, I've told my friends who continuously threatened it that I didn't care anymore and to hurry up and do it, which they never did). It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for. The ones who threaten it are almost never serious. I don't think suicide is necessarily a selfish thing. Read Tears of a Tiger and you will understand what I mean. I understood why my friend did it (my cousin and I never went back to that therapist after that, he wasn't a very good one to begin with, I told him I heard voices in my head and he said I didn't need to be there anymore). I wish I had told him my feelings, even though he already had a girlfriend (a good friend of mine, who is clumsier than I am, she kept losing her memory due to this amazing ability to constantly get hit by cars so she could never remember me XD).


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

damn, very hot argument.

@gifi4 let's pretend you want me alive, i want to die.

i will never listen to you. i'd still commit suicide. if you'd stop me i'll kill you.
that will be reality.




anyways. to stop a person from committing suicide is to break him.

i mean that you need to erase the reason for him wanting that. if you will tell me that because he has no fun memories then make him believe that the world is still beautiful, that there's still hope.


@aeladya you make me wanna cry. it's because somehow i know how you feel. but i'm happy that you still have a reason to live. never forget your reason to live, use it.


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## Wombo Combo (Jan 15, 2011)

I think if you have a disease that you are going to die (ie:aids) from no matter what then I think its justified if the person wants to do it because what is the point of living or accomplishing anything when your going to die soon from a disease/virus I can see that overwhelming the individual.


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## Vidboy10 (Jan 15, 2011)

It all depends really...

If your in a war, and the offensive troops were coming to you, what will they do?
Torture you? Kill you slowly? Keep you in a death camp for years?

If they are, I would just take the easy way out.

But if it was for a trivial reason then that would be stupid...


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## tatripp (Jan 15, 2011)

Why can't suicide be a person's choice and a selfish act? They aren't contradictory.
This is what GK Chesterton thinks about suicide as written in his book orthodoxy. "Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men. As far as he is concerned he wipes out the world."


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

game01 said:
			
		

> damn, very hot argument.
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If I cared about you, I would try to. If you kill me, and you knew I cared, it might make you think for a second. You might reconsider. I would gladly give my life to keep a good friend or member of my family here in this world a bit longer. Especially if they did not share my belief. Who knows what I believe in could be correct, through my death, and the possibility of eternal life, my death could let me see this person again. I won't know until I take the dirt nap.


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## Forstride (Jan 15, 2011)

I hate to say it, but I agree with the Cat Boy.

But really, I see it as a pathetic and immoral way to escape and give up.  You hurt the people that love and care about you, and you just take the coward's way out.  If I was in a situation like vidboy said, I would still push forward to my fullest, and when the time comes, the offensive side will kill me.  Until then, I'd try to resist and get out of the situation.

It's almost like that with depressing situations that make you think of suicide.  You just have to take your mind off it, and think/do something positive.  Like video games for example...A lot of people see them as a way to escape from real-life stress for short periods of time.

I just think suicide is pathetic, selfish, cowardly, and just all-out wrong.  But that might just be me.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> So why is it my fault?
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It's about leaving something behind. Leaving something behind that people will remember you for. Do you just want to be another chronically ill person, or do want to grab life by the reigns while you still can to make something of yourself in anyway possible? It's all about creating an image people will at least remember you for.

The acts in a hospital are a giant grey area though. There are no definitive answers on what is morally just in medical practice. It is hard to know where to draw the line in some situations.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 15, 2011)

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or  "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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i like your answer. 

i'd hate it if someone said they would tie me up or cage me and say "it's for your own good".


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## Fireballo (Jan 15, 2011)

Death lasts a very long time.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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Except if there's nothing afterwards, there's no memory of these things, so they might as well not have happened. Am I wrong?


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or  "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.
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No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...


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## Narayan (Jan 15, 2011)

johncenafan427 said:
			
		

> hey guys, in one of my classes i have to write an essay on conflicts going on in the world.
> i chose to write about suicide.
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i think the OP may have a hard time writing his essay now.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

gifi4 said:
			
		

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Except as a dead body in the ground, what are the chances that these people still exist in my reality (or that I would have any reality at all)?


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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None, simply because no one knows, when you die, you can answer that question yourself, no one can answer it without dying.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 15, 2011)

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Okay lets look at it like this:

Say your parents disowned you basically, they kicked you out, or they've passed on. And you have no other family.

And your friends don't want anything to do with you because they think being depressed is stupid or whatever, and they just tell you "lol [censored]". And you've spent years in psychiatry, taking pills and everything, but nothing is working. And you can't get your life back on track like getting a job or anything, because of your problems are stopping you. What's the point in going on if there's a slight possibility that in the next life, you could start fresh and feel that feeling of security, happiness, and love?


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

gifi4 said:
			
		

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So why should I take the reality I leave behind into account if it contributes no knowledge of the new one?


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

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Going by the good 'ol dictionary definition, everybody is a bigot on every issue, as our beliefs will never coincide perfectly with everybody else's. Taking a word's meaning literally and applying it in the wrong places isn't going to help. Debating isn't bigotry. Think of that as you will, but not agreeing with others is a part of life. If you want to think of it that way, you don't agree with my belief that suicide is a selfish act that isn't justifiable. You would be a bigot towards my own beliefs. See how that gets turned around? If you don't believe you yourself are being a bigot, than I am clearly not being a bigot.

Taking in the facts of reality? There are no "facts of reality" unless you create them as such. Reality is ever changing and evolving. What we know as reality can change in the matter of a day, and change again the next. Nobody is ever truly sure of what reality is, and we are only fooling ourselves when we think we do.

There is nothing for the person who died afterwards. The memories will still live on in those that have them. Those memories will move to others. Believing every piece of you disappears at the snap of your fingers is somewhat ignorant.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> Going by the good 'ol dictionary definition, everybody is a bigot on every issue, as our beliefs will never coincide perfectly with everybody else's. Taking a word's meaning literally and applying it in the wrong places isn't going to help. Debating isn't bigotry. Think of that as you will, but not agreeing with others is a part of life. If you want to think of it that way, you don't agree with my belief that suicide is a selfish act that isn't justifiable. You would be a bigot towards my own beliefs. See how that gets turned around? If you don't believe you yourself are being a bigot, than I am clearly not being a bigot.
> Disagreeing with someone isn't being a bigot. Calling them _weak_, _selfish_, telling them there's no justification for what they think and that they should "man the fuck up" and conform to your own opinion, is.
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Except that's what you just said. That there was "nothing afterwards."

Are you telling me now that there _is_ something after death?


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

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This is off topic but: They wouldn't be what you call friends, just morons.
OT: There is no way to answer that without the suiciding person first asking themselves, "Do I believe in the afterlife? Have I ever believed in the afterlife?"

@Urza
Well what if it does contribute, what if, there are 2 afterlifes: A Heaven type afterlife and a Hell type afterlife, What if the people who suicide go to the hell type and the people who live their life completely (This includes if they die at the age of 5 or something because of something like getting hit by a car or w/e as long as they didn't wish for it) go the the heaven type afterlife...Everything I just said is a "What if"... There is no way to get a 100% answer for this.

Ever heard on the news of someone who dies and comes back alive, They usually say something like "I saw the light" or "I heard a voice" well they could just be after fame here...No one knows, only that person who was there themselves, but can you really believe what they say?


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

gifi4 said:
			
		

> @Urza
> Well what if it does contribute, what if, there are 2 afterlifes: A Heaven type afterlife and a Hell type afterlife, What if the people who suicide go to the hell type and the people who live their life completely (This includes if they die at the age of 5 or something because of something like getting hit by a car or w/e as long as they didn't wish for it) go the the heaven type afterlife...Everything I just said is a "What if"... There is no way to get a 100% answer for this.


If you believe in a Christian-style afterlife, you might as well believe any other mystical fairy tale construed by human, as nothing on this Earth provides enough evidence to really point to any of them.

Roll a die and pick: your result will be just as accurate.


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

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Exactly why I said "What if".


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Misconstruing what I say does not make me a bigot. I'm not telling you to agree with me, I'm stating what I believe. I believe that if you think suicide is the only way, that you need to man the fuck up. If you believe it's not selfish, I believe that you should consider it as so. When considering suicide as the only way to go though; can you say you aren't weak? Suicide is in essence, giving up. A strong person would not give up. That is less debatable, more factual.

I have simply stated what I believe and that those considering suicide should also consider that. Not once have I said that they better damn well believe it or else they might as well go.

The downside to ending your so called "suffering" is that you'll never know what could have been if you end it. Losing hope for the future comes right back to being weak. You can't tell me you're a strong person in anyway if you are willing to give up so easily and not even consider the end of your personal trials as a possibility or even an inevitability.

There is nothing for the one who committed suicide after death. I have yet to imply there is. I simply stated that people will still remember you, that you won't be completely gone in every way simply because you killed yourself. It was more of a side thought more than anything else. Considering life until you know you've left something behind worth being remembered for, made a difference with what you thought was a meaningless life, that could easily turn everything around. That is a trial in itself, but one somebody in such a position should strongly consider.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

gifi4 said:
			
		

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What if only those who kill themselves gain access to the gates of Heaven, and everyone else goes to Hell?

There is truly nothing productive that can come of that discussion.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> The downside to ending your so called "suffering" is that you'll never know what could have been if you end it. Losing hope for the future comes right back to being weak. You can't tell me you're a strong person in anyway if you are willing to give up so easily and not even consider the end of your personal trials as a possibility or even an inevitability.
> 
> There is nothing for the one who committed suicide after death. I have yet to imply there is. I simply stated that people will still remember you, that you won't be completely gone in every way simply because you killed yourself. It was more of a side thought more than anything else. Considering life until you know you've left something behind worth being remembered for, made a difference with what you thought was a meaningless life, that could easily turn everything around. That is a trial in itself, but one somebody in such a position should strongly consider.
> Ignoring your continuing lack of respect for the English language...
> ...



So if there's nothing after, there is no memory of the people who still remember you. There is no memory of what you have accomplished, the differences you've made. The meaning your life had.

What's the point in persevering, if no matter what action you take, in the end you are rewarded with literally nothing?


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## gifi4 (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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I know, that's why I said "What if", simply put, no one can answer it.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 15, 2011)

As someone who has dabbled myself in thoughts of a suicidal nature, I've developed quite an opinion on the matter. First of all, its a misconception that if you are suicidal you must be either mentally ill or chemically imbalanced. Some people legitimately have cause to kill themselves, they are simply unhappy due to legitimate circumstances.

Two examples of such: You are a soldier, you have been captured and are being tortured. There is no hope you will ever be free, the only thing you have to look forward to is enduring more torture and then eventually they will decide to kill you. If you get the chance, you _should_ kill yourself in that scenario. There is no reason to endure that pain when there is no hope and a way out of that situation.

The second example would be loss on a large scale. Your family was just murdered in front of your eyes, your spouse, your children, they are gone. Your job falls apart because you snap due to the trauma, you can no longer pay bills and will likely end up on the street, friendships mean nothing to you in a world without the ones you love. That person has a legitimate claim to killing them self. One could honestly say their life will only get progressively worse, it not a sure thing, but its a safe bet.

My personal opinion on suicide is that it is a personal choice. If you are unhappy with your life... and I'm not talking about some teenage angst bullshit where your hormones are raging and your mind is undeveloped, I would recommend that a depressed teenager stick it out, as chances are they will feel differently in a few years. But if you are unhappy with your life as an adult, and you legitimately feel it will not ever get better, as much as everything else is a choice in this world (IE you can choose to do nothing with your life and waste it, choose to live dangerously, etc); whether you live or die should be your choice as well.

We are forced into this world, not given a choice in any regard as to what our life will be like, who our parents will be, how it will all turn out, or if you even would have chosen to be born in the hypothetical situation where you had that sort of choice. The least one should be able to choose is their own destiny.

Now some will say, and many have, that suicide is selfish, that it would potentially destroy your family and friends. This is true, it is selfish in that respect. There is no two ways about it, you are making a decision for you in that scenario, and no one else. However, you know what else is selfish? Asking, forcing, or guilt tripping someone into continuing life when they are legitimately unhappy and (within the correct scenario) that likely not ever improving.

It is just as selfish for one person to say to another _"You can't kill yourself, because it would destroy me"_, as it is for that person to commit suicide and do so. Because in either side of that scenario, you are putting your feelings ahead of someone else. You are telling them _"You need to stay alive regardless of how bad you feel, because it keeps me from feeling bad"_, which is just as backwards when you truly consider it.

A side note, if I may: I _do_ think it is entirely selfish to kill yourself in a particularly gruesome fashion. Someone has to find your body. Your grotesque blood covered, excrement smelling corpse. Brain matter splattered against the wall, blood pouring from your eyes, etc. I am painting a particularly gory picture to dissuade everyone from doing it in that fashion. Someone will find you, probably a loved one, and that will haunt them for the rest of their lives. You may not care once you are dead, but try and be considerate of others while you aren't.

I am not necessarily advocating suicide, I think in most cases your life would probably improve at some point, but there are some people who have a legitimate claim to doing so. It isn't always a matter of simple depression. If you lose your arms and legs in an explosion you certainly have a case for taking your own life; but if you are just a manic depressive, get some meds, you aren't _really_ sad, you are just being told you are by chemical responses.

I will leave you on an excerpt I read in a Superman comic recently (Superman issue #701, for anyone who is interested),  in which Superman attempted to talk a suicidal individual down from a ledge when he could have stopped her in an instant. Making her a promise that he would not intervene if she made her choice:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> _"A friend of mine, many years ago, took her life. She was terminally ill, every day she was in agony, and she decided one day that she knew-- knew without question-- that she would never have another happy day. And see... well, I guess you could say she checked out early. I understood, I didn't approve, I still don't, but I understood.
> 
> If you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that you will never, ever have another happy day... then step out into the air. I'll keep my promise, I won't stop you.
> 
> But if you think there's a *chance*-- no matter how small-- that there might just be *one* more happy day out there-- --then take my hand."_



Words to live by, I think.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

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So what you're saying is, if what you believe in is purely scientific, and the theories that this belief entails can neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power, then this is more productive than talking about a religious point of view. Bullshit. Both of you, don't talk about things that you cannot prove, or disprove in the eyes of others. Keep the discussion out of that sector of the galaxy.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> So what you're saying is, if what you believe in is purely scientific, and the theories that this belief entails can neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power, then this is more productive than talking about a religious point of view. Bullshit. Both of you, don't talk about things that you cannot prove, or disprove in the eyes of others. Keep the discussion out of that sector of the galaxy.


Before you get your name engraved on that high and mighty pedestal of yours, please explain to me what would be accomplished if we pursued that line of conversation.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Nothing, Nada, Zip. Neither of you, and I for sure won't, stop going back and forth about that subject. It's safer for this topic, and more respectful for the forum in none of us get another topic locked because we cannot control ourselves. Dig? Also, this pedestal will never have my name on it, as I will never be deserving of the title: "High and mighty."

EDIT: Clarification.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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I think your reading comprehension has failed you.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

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No, it hasn't. I know very much why you asked that. Which is why I am avoiding it entirely.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Jan 15, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> No, it hasn't. I know very much why you asked that. Which is why I am avoiding it entirely.



If you were going to avoid something entirely... why post?


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

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Which is what I said before you got all huffy, and what you're saying, if I understand you correctly.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 15, 2011)

Folks, keep it on topic. You are now have a separate, relatively self-contained discussion about the semantics of who should and should not post what and why.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> Ignoring your continuing lack of respect for the English language...
> Once again, I must reiterate your statement to clarify that it is accurate:
> 
> So if there's nothing after, there is no memory of the people who still remember you. There is no memory of what you have accomplished, the differences you've made. The meaning your life had.
> ...



I have no lack of respect for the English language. You just need to learn not to take things such as word definitions at face value. The English language is a tricky thing that can't be defined by a book.

I should have been more clear originally, my apologies. When I say there is nothing after, I am saying that is purely for the person who committed suicide. Believing you leave no impression in the slightest is just a silly thought in itself.

Who is to say you will be rewarded with literally nothing? You won't know what could be until you tough it out to an inevitable ending.

------------------------------------------------

Holy crap Ace, that is a lot to take in. Your views are pretty much mine, just far, far better iterated with personal experience that I lack. Personal experience I hope to never have. 

There are moments of weakness where you have no choice but to accept it, and I should consider that it isn't always an act of selfishness. What you present are some very extreme situations, though I do know they happen, some more often than we would like to think. You present special cases though where there is no possibility of things ever getting better. The person has literally lost every possible thing in life that any person could consider is worth living for. There, "manning up," reconsidering things, those just aren't options. At that point, I don't even think it can be considered selfish if what you are doing may raise the quality of life for others (ie: The family thing where the person would just have that feeling of utter hopelessness that would be irreparable in any situation, thus, they would more than likely know at that point that they would only serve as an obstacle for others while knowing that they are as such).

The selfishness is something that I realize sits on both sides of the debate. Where I feel it ends though is where the person not only doesn't want the person to kill them self, but for the reason that they want to help to get them back on their feet. There is still that selfishness present, but with an ulterior motive that is hard to perceive as such.

I suppose there are instances where suicide is truly the only way. I will still never support it, but I can understand it in such extreme circumstances. I suppose Superman said it best. Incredible words that should be taken to heart. I have to wonder what possible experiences the writer(s) of that issue may have had to generate such a caption.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

phoenixgoddess27 said:
			
		

> If you were going to avoid something entirely... why post?
> Because he's pushing it.
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No, I saw that. There are two meanings one can draw from that. 1) Sensitive subject that causes much controversy and brings about an inconclusive result when discussed. 2) Subject you don't believe (maybe not totally) in and wish to draw out others to comment and defend their stance on said subject. I'll admit, I may have jumped a little farther on in the conversation that I should have, but I know what you meant by it.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> Who is to say you will be rewarded with literally nothing? You won't know what could be until you tough it out to an inevitable ending.


That's not what I said, it's what _you_ said.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Twisting my words won't serve well. You also didn't specify exactly what _I_ said. I have said multiple times that you should try to strive to leave something behind to be remembered by, but when you die, your body and being are gone. Dieing doesn't instantly erase memories of you.

Now, exactly what part of that is confusing? I feel like you are just out of things to say really. :3


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## Phoenix Goddess (Jan 15, 2011)

On-topic:

Views are clashing with others and it's making this thread seem more heated than it should be.
No one's changing their view, so what's the point of trying to change others to see it your way?
It's best to ponder on what's being said here. However, there's no point in going back and forth, back and forth if you won't even see where others are coming from.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

phoenixgoddess27 said:
			
		

> On-topic:
> 
> Views are clashing with others and it's making this thread seem more heated than it should be.
> No one's changing their view, so what's the point of trying to change others to see it your way?
> It's best to ponder on what's being said here. However, there's no point in going back and forth, back and forth if you won't even see where others are coming from.


I just wanted the discussion to be directed away from that topic entirely. For the good of an entirely legitimate topic. Especially since there are quite a few people on the temp who have things they can and should share. Who knows, it could make someone's life feel better.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

I've just stated my views, had them challenged, and have attempted to reinforce them the best I could.

In the end, it is just kind of a debate, and the nature of debates is going back and forth attempting to present new information each time to counter the point presented.
Of course, I don't even remember exactly what the OP wanted to know anymore, and I'm too lazy to reference the first post.

@Urza: As I have said many times, there is nothing after. If *you* commit suicide, *you* are just worm food. *Others* will still remember you though. At the very least *you* can attempt to leave a *memory* behind that *others* can remember you by. In a way, you aren't truly gone as the memory remains, but you as a being are gone. You no longer have any say in what people think of you. Can what people think of you become worm food?

Short answer, no. More clear? Less clear?


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> I've just stated my views, had them challenged, and have attempted to reinforce them the best I could.
> 
> In the end, it is just kind of a debate, and the nature of debates is going back and forth attempting to present new information each time to counter the point presented.
> 
> Of course, I don't even remember exactly what the OP wanted to know anymore, and I'm too lazy to reference the first post.


I accept your concession.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

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Psh, you wish. You just posted prematurely before seeing the edit. To be fair, you haven't actually put forth a contradicting point for about the last page and a half towards what I've said. If it were to end as is, I would technically find you to have conceded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I wonder if the OP has enough info to write a paper now. Suicide is just so broad and controversial though. I would *never* write a paper on it.


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> Holy crap Ace, that is a lot to take in. Your views are pretty much mine, just far, far better iterated with personal experience that I lack. Personal experience I hope to never have.
> 
> There are moments of weakness where you have no choice but to accept it, and I should consider that it isn't always an act of selfishness. What you present are some very extreme situations, though I do know they happen, some more often than we would like to think. You present special cases though where there is no possibility of things ever getting better. The person has literally lost every possible thing in life that any person could consider is worth living for. There, "manning up," reconsidering things, those just aren't options. At that point, I don't even think it can be considered selfish if what you are doing may raise the quality of life for others (ie: The family thing where the person would just have that feeling of utter hopelessness that would be irreparable in any situation, thus, they would more than likely know at that point that they would only serve as an obstacle for others while knowing that they are as such).
> 
> ...


I admit I went to extreme examples in my post, that was really more for the benefit of those who feel there is no appropriate time for suicide, that there is never a cause for taking your life. I would disagree with that, of course. With that said, I do think that most lives can be improved, and especially for the teenage demographic who is by far the most prone to suicide (them and dentists, amirite? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), usually waiting it out will see things improve.

I developed suicidal thoughts as early as age 8 and well into my late teenage years. I'm sure an undeveloped and rapidly growing human brain played some part in that, but it was not strictly a chemical issue. I was legitimately unhappy with my life. It was not an awful life, I just did not care all that much for it. At the root of the problem, though, I really just did not like myself very much.

Regardless of that, I thought about it logically, and decided to wait until I was in my 20s to make a decision on the matter. I was aware that my mind was still developing, and that, logically, I could not say without a shadow of a doubt that a decade or so would not change things. Lo and behold, things did improve for the better. I became comfortable in my own skin and the thoughts more or less dissipated. I won't say I have a grand life and that there is no room for improvement, in fact I'll go on record and say that my life is probably only 20% of what I wish it would be (within the realm of reason), but waiting and thinking things through did help.

That would be the advice I would give to the youngins, just stick it out at least until you can make a more informed decision. Weigh all the options, and heck, while you are at it, consider that advice from Superman. Even at my worst I could not say I expected to never have another happy day.

With all of that in mind, I still think there are less extreme situations where your life has not turned out and it may be too late to go back and change things, so the option you come to is to remove yourself from this life. Maybe you have valid reasons, maybe you don't, but it is an understandable perspective. I believe that 90% of the time it is not too late to make a positive change, but there are cases where you don't have the funds to go back to school/etc and completely redo your life from the ground up at age 40.

If you truly feel that suicide is for the best, I will trust your judgment, but I will at the very least attempt to walk someone through the alternatives and see if there is any hope, there usually is.


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## nutella (Jan 15, 2011)

Anyone seen 127 hours? I know it's not really about suicide, but Christ, you talk about little hope. This guy was almost guaranteed a painfully slow and horrible death.

Just food for thought, didn't really have much to say that hasn't been said or without delving into my own life.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> @Urza: As I have said many times, there is nothing after. If *you* commit suicide, *you* are just worm food. *Others* will still remember you though. At the very least *you* can attempt to leave a *memory* behind that *others* can remember you by. In a way, you aren't truly gone as the memory remains, but you as a being are gone. You no longer have any say in what people think of you. Can what people think of you become worm food?


And as I have stated at least twice now: if _you_ are left with nothing, *you have no* *memory* of _them_, of your _life_, of _anything_. Nothing from your mortal life is relevant because _you_ essentially cease to exist (as a conscious entity).


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

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Yes, you have nothing. You no longer have memories, you don't even have a brain. I have been saying that you leave behind a memory implanted in others. It is not yours to do with what you want. It is yours in a way when you are alive though. You get to change and manipulate it to how you like. Once you're dead though, what is there, in the minds of others, is there to stay. You do not completely disappear in every way when you die. You are actually worm food, that isn't gonna change anytime soon for a dead person.

It's all about what you leave behind in the memories of others (when it is less an inevitability, more a choice).

You miss the point time and time again though, I'm done trying to communicate it in a way that you understand, as either you are trying not to understand it, or truly just do not understand what I'm saying.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

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I understand completely what you've said. It is you who keeps missing my point.

For the third or fourth time now, and as clear as I can make it:
_*What memories you leave others with (or anything that takes place during your mortality) is completely irrelevant to you if you are dead and have no mind.*_


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

What you aren't understanding is that you lose the ability to get to say what is or isn't relevant about you once you are gone. A person could remember even the pettiest, most irrelevant thing about you as far as you are concerned, but it could be as relevant as possible to them.

You fail to grasp the idea of leaving behind a memory. Just because you lose the ability to make and shape those memories doesn't magically make them irrelevant to any part of *their* life because you removed yourself.

You're final choice is committing suicide. You have no say after as to any aspect, especially when it comes to the relevance of memories or anything of the like.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> What you aren't understanding is that you lose the ability to get to say what is or isn't relevant about you once you are gone. A person could remember even the pettiest, most irrelevant thing about you as far as you are concerned, but it could be as relevant as possible to them.
> 
> You fail to grasp the idea of leaving behind a memory. Just because you lose the ability to make and shape those memories doesn't magically make them irrelevant to any part of *their* life because you removed yourself.
> 
> You're final choice is committing suicide. You have no say after as to any aspect, especially when it comes to the relevance of memories or anything of the like.


You're dead. You have no mind, no perception. _Nothing_ is relevant.

Unless you think you're coming back as a ghost, floating above your relatives listening in on their conversations about you, nothing you're really saying makes any sense.


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## hullo8d (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> What you aren't understanding is that you lose the ability to get to say what is or isn't relevant about you once you are gone. A person could remember even the pettiest, most irrelevant thing about you as far as you are concerned, but it could be as relevant as possible to them.
> 
> You fail to grasp the idea of leaving behind a memory. Just because you lose the ability to make and shape those memories doesn't magically make them irrelevant to any part of *their* life because you removed yourself.
> 
> You're final choice is committing suicide. You have no say after as to any aspect, especially when it comes to the relevance of memories or anything of the like.



When your lying on your death bed, and you can feel your life withering away, you may come to realize that it really isn't you who's ending, it's the world.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> You're dead. You have no mind, no perception. _Nothing_ is relevant.
> 
> Unless you think you're coming back as a ghost, floating above your relatives listening in on their conversations about you, nothing you're really saying makes any sense.



It is all irrelevant to you. When considering it revolving entirely around you, a purely selfish act, yes, it is completely irrelevant.

What is relevant to others though does not have to be relevant to you. What if a memory of you is relevant to a conversation about, say, suicide? There, it has some relevance. Not to you, but to others. You are viewing it only from the point of the one who committed the act, not others who may have been connected in some way to the one that did it.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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At the root of any action any human takes, it is for one's own best interest.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> At the root of any action any human takes, it is for one's own best interest.



That is basic instinct. We are always looking out for our own best interests at heart.

Suicide goes against those basic instincts though. The instinct of survival primarily.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

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I have to differ on the above that everyone follows the basic interest of "whatever is best for me". The line below it contradicts that everyone follows their own instincts.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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Such people act in that way because they get something out of it. Maybe a sense of fulfillment from helping, a feeling of joy, of hope, whatever it may be. It is a fact that is how our brains are wired.

It only appears selfless in contrast to the actions of other people.


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## Sterling (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> Such people act in that way because they get something out of it. Maybe a sense of fulfillment from helping, a feeling of joy, of hope, whatever it may be. It is a fact that is how our brains are wired.
> 
> It only appears selfless in contrast to the actions of other people.


You speak the truth. I am one of those people. I get very little satisfaction (most of the time) out of doing things only for myself. So, I guess this one is quoted for truth.


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## Sephi (Jan 15, 2011)

It's not my business if a human kills itself purposely.


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## Nathan Drake (Jan 15, 2011)

Self preservation is present in every human. It isn't something that you are just born without. Suicide is a more a weakening of resolve that results in a deterioration self preservation.

I find it somewhat odd that so many can act against something such as that so easily.

Acting in our best interest though is an act of self preservation in itself. Acting in our best interest will ultimately extend our time in existence (in most cases). Some times though, we perceive wrongly what we think to be our best interest. We have convinced ourselves we think it is, when truly it is not.

For suicide though, there are many gray areas in that respect. With many people, it's hard to tell if it was truly in their best interest (if it isn't an extreme case where it was very obvious that it was).


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## Apk07 (Jan 15, 2011)

The OP asked for your opinions on suicide, not your opinions on other people's opinions.

This topic should be a list of opinions, not conversation about each other's morals


My two cents: Suicide is selfish for any physically healthy person, unless you've exhausted every possible alternative to becoming happy. Suicidal people don't go out of their way to hunt for alternatives to begin with. I'd almost call them lazy to an extent (not to say I'm not a lazy slob myself). They feel like they have nothing left to live for, which in most cases isn't true, they're just too lazy to put forth the effort to find it. Its an easy-out, and taking the easy road isn't always the brightest choice.


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## OSW (Jan 15, 2011)

couple of things... apologies if it's rather disjointed (I couldn't be bothered to work on phrasing things better)

X.
High suicide rates in todays society might be a reflection that life isn't as simple as it used to be. People are preoccupied with a lot of unimportant shit.

Think about our ancestors - their life wasn't about money, careers, drugs, marriage (to some degree) and all the shit that is in today's society. In fact, their prime motivation for most things was survival! (as opposed to the death that suicide brings). 
- If they needed food, theyd just go out and hunt shit, they didn't need to work long hours to get a meal
- If they wanted entertainment/acceptance, they did the raw human activities, sex, dance, rituals and all that shit, not drugs and alcohol or whatever.
- Partners had to treat each other well, for the sake of the community, to get food, again because their goal was survival. Exclusivity wasn't necessary. Men probably had a lot more sex (lol).

It's not exactly that we as humans have changed (we have always been selfish creatures), but the way we respond to our world seems to have changed for the worse

X.
By nature we are truly selfish beings... so you can't really fault someone for not thinking about the people around them when they commit suicide. That being said, suicide is a very strange and horrid thing. Surely anyone who commits the act  must have some kind of mental problem - whether that be a tendency to focus on negative things, whether they don't feel important or whatever. I consider that a serious problem. The only time I can see suicide as acceptable is when the person is under an intense physical or mental pain such as torture or disease. These kinds of circumstances are rare and push us past our normal frame of mind, even to radical decisions.
However, if people consider their lives to be in intense pain due to social issues etc, they cannot be equally treated. This kind of situation reflects mental instability, as in their situation most people would grit through it or try and make changes to improve their life. We are naturally RISK AVERSE, and suicide is a big risk!


Perhaps the decision process or suicide could be displayed as a decision process tree (too lazy to draw, so i numbered). To progress down the tree at each point becomes less likely to occur.

1. Living

2. Life isn't going well (subjectively), what should I do? 
I work on it and things get better (go back to 1.)
I work on it and things stay bad (go to 3.)
I'm to weak/lazy to make an effort (go to 3.)

3. I can commit suicide, but I don't know what will happen after I die (the unknown).
I don't take the chance as with the majority of humans (go back to 1.)
I'm mentally incapable of considering the possible consequences of death (commits suicide)
I have a religious or personal belief that death will be better than life (commits suicide)


X.
I really hate when people who suffer minor problems even suggest the idea of suicide (whether they had really contemplated it or not). I know one girl like this who often overdramatizes small issues and fights in her life. Coincidentally she herself lost someone close through suicide, and it was very traumatising to her. It's strange though, I feel like if I was in her position of losing someone through suicide, after enduring the pain I'm almost certain that I would be extremely against the entire notion.

X.
Everyone dies one day. Even if there is a better afterlife, is it really such a good idea to cut short your current life in chase of the unknown. Even if you are suffering, maybe that will help you to better appreciate the afterlife, or to learn from it.




			
				Ace Gunman said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
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Great quote, thank you Ace.. That's the kinda thing I could really see gettin through to someone with suicidal thoughts.


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## Infinite Zero (Jan 15, 2011)

This girl is going to commit suicide any time soon and I don't know what to do
http://thepoltergeist.tumblr.com/


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## DryYoshi (Jan 15, 2011)

I think people who do it are just plain messed up.


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## nutella (Jan 15, 2011)

To reiterate what I said before that got lost beneath all this arguing, if you haven't seen 127 hours, go see it. This movie materializes the phrase "There's always hope!!"


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## Infinite Zero (Jan 15, 2011)

Fireballo said:
			
		

> Death lasts forever.


Fix'd.
We have been give a single life. Why waste it?


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## Ace Gunman (Jan 15, 2011)

Fascinating post, OSW. One point, and somewhat of a counterpoint, that I'd like to mention is the idea that life was simpler hundreds or thousands of years ago and how that might relate to suicidal tendencies in the modern demographic. Something I have been thinking about lately is the concept that people simply used to act, and now we are all so in our heads that we stress over the tiniest things. This was inspired by my play through recently of Assassin's Creed 2, and partially inspired by a topic I read recently on GBAtemp where someone asked for dating advice.

At the very beginning of that game, and small spoilers here but its barely even a part of the game for more than 2 minutes, the main character, Ezio, seduces and then has sex with I believe either the daughter of a powerful man, or his wife. This leads to threats of death and whatnot when the father or husband finds out. I bring this up because how many times have we heard this story throughout history? Men and women literally willing to risk penalty of death (as adultry was a major crime in many societies) in order for one night of passion.

Alternative, Leonardo da Vinci, keeping in mind I may be thinking of another famous inventor/artist, but I believe I have the right one. Men like him who were entirely in their heads. Always thinking about the philosophical, questioning religion, politics, etc. Great individuals who accomplished a great deal, but whom most would call eccentric. These men of history were known to have exceptionally passionate love lives. Most of them had multiple mistresses, and yet, they were in their own heads.

Today we over think every detail of our lives. Should I ask her out, should I kiss that person, should I say this or that, will I lose my job if I do this, etc. It causes undue stress, but that stress is one that all people through the modern society feel at one point or another. The irony is that although our lifespans have been expanded from living to 30 to live to 95, we are more concerned about the time we have and what we have done with it than ever before.

Additionally, in days of old we had no time to think about such topics. Nowadays, for as busy as we all are, we have far too much time to just sit down in a room alone and question our life choices, which could potentially lead to focusing on the darker parts.

However, I do not believe that everyone who does so is necessarily mentally unhinged on some level. There are many extremely small reasons someone may feel the pressures of the world, but as our own mthrnite says, all pain is local. One doesn't need to be a cancer patient or victim of theft to feel badly about parts of their life. For a person with an exceptional life, falling in a puddle may be a month long low. There is always going to be someone who is worse off, if you consider it that way no one would ever do anything with their lives. _"Sure, I lost my job, but at least I don't have a tumor"_. Losing your job is still bad, and could potentially cripple your life from that point onward if you had no further prospects.

The key to understanding someones "local" pain is to read beyond the simple answer, I feel. Sure, someone saying _"I do not have a girlfriend, I should kill myself"_ sounds like an overreaction, but what if they are 40? What if they are a virgin? What if all women look at them and say _"Wow, this person is a 40 year old virgin, they must have some series issues, I don't feel like getting involved with that baggage"_ (I watched the 40 Year Old Virgin recently, if you can't tell xD).

When you start piecing together the details beyond that simple initial statement, yeah, I could picture someone killing themselves over that. Never having a mate? The one and only important thing in this world that we are literally built for? Imagine the failure one must feel, being unable to succeed at doing what we are biologically unable to fight. When in reality, the only thing that person has wrong with them is that so many people wrote him off as "having issues", that they never gave him a chance. You can't fight that, not when it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with other peoples perspectives of you.

My point here is that sometimes these tiny details that seem so pointless and melodramatic to people who aren't in that situation, are actually much larger issues that the individuals in question cannot overcome no matter how hard they try. Which makes it understandable that they may want to take their own lives. Struggling against futility for the remainder of your lifespan can't be much fun.


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## OSW (Jan 15, 2011)

Great post Ace, nicely tied in with prince of persia lol. I haven't played the game but I recently watched the sands of time movie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




EDIT: Excuse me but I believe I just misread assassins creed for prince of persia. What a horrible mistake LOL

One more thing, I just wanted to clarify about my post though (in case anyone misunderstood) when I said mental problem, I didn't quite mean it in the way we typically use that phrase (ie. a clinically diagnosed problem). What I wanted to get across was that something is not quite right (not necessarily crazy or anything).

This could easily be something that has been conditioned from their past, ie. their family or classmates or whoever has mistreated them to the point in which they lose self-value, or perhaps they have gone through a traumatizing experience which has changed the way they think and feel.

I really hope that all the tempers here today, have the strength to overcome any mental challenges that may come their way (such as suicide).


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## Talaria (Jan 15, 2011)

A little off-topic, but don't you just love Google's Adsense?






An eerily appropriate ad to be showing while browsing this thread.


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## Icealote (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's my opinion,
I dislike people calling other people who are suicidal or have ended their own life because of some "trivial reasons" as  "idiots" or "messed up". I believe these people should shut their mouths and just acknowledge these people who choose this decision. I tired of seeing the label as these people who have or want to commit this act as being selfish, that's not my concern, what concerns me is that these idiots criticize and complain that one life has ruined the rest of a family, please... THAT person would never feel so helpless or be in a suicidal mode IF the family/friends had paid attention or was aware of the situation. What's disgraceful is that THESE people have the nerve to say it to people who mourn the suicidal victims. THAT'S not what people want to hear. People who act, think and behave in this manner are the idiots. They run their mouths and say selfish this and that and yet I believe they wouldn't help that person when asked in the moment. Suicide or the act of committing suicide is always a cry for or of help.
This is MY opinion as I worked and deal with such cases since its a part of my working career. I just hope I've open people's eyes to this part where it is often overlooked. I agree that there will always be hope for those who see suicide as an option or even an answer. The real question is, "will you or could you help these people in need?"
I hope that question is taken seriously and not with the comments such as "yeah easy bro" or some crap like that.


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## KingdomBlade (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm against it. I value human life. Simple as that.

An overwhelming majority of ethnic and religious groups are against it, Christians, Satanists, and some Atheists alike hate it. I agree with them.


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## GundamXXX (Jan 15, 2011)

Its funny, I was thinking about something that suicide relates too...

Anyway, I think suicide is a broad term. People only see it as a negative thing. ODing, slicing, hanging yourselfing, jumping in front of a train etc etc but have you ever thought about the following suicide?

A kid falls on the tracks at a trainstation. The train cant stop in time and you realize that. You jump on the tracks knowing very well you dont have time to get off and you grab the kid and throw it back on the platform. BAM youre dead.

Is that suicide? I think it is because no matter how "noble" the cause is you still kill yourself knowingly


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## BobTheJoeBob (Jan 15, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> Its funny, I was thinking about something that suicide relates too...
> 
> Anyway, I think suicide is a broad term. People only see it as a negative thing. ODing, slicing, hanging yourselfing, jumping in front of a train etc etc but have you ever thought about the following suicide?
> 
> ...



su·i·cide
? ?/?su??sa?d/ Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd] Show IPA noun, verb, -cid·ed, -cid·ing.
–noun
1.
the intentional taking of one's own life. 

If someone did that, they didn't intentionally take their own life, they just knew that if they didn't try and help the kid, he would die. For it to be suicide, you have to want to take your own life.


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## GundamXXX (Jan 15, 2011)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> GundamXXX said:
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Jumping in front a train intentionally, wether to try and save someone or not, is suicide.

The person knew very well he was going to die but did it anyway to save a life.


Ok another example. Someone is depressed and on the edge of breaking down. He thinks "If I dont do something real soon Im going to murder people". Not being able to help himself of get help he shoots himself to prevent himself from shooting other. Does this count as suicide?


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## SmokeFox (Jan 15, 2011)

Take your life, and never pur your hands on some new console or cool game, just by thinking in that makes me wanne live much more.


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## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Urza do you have anything better to do other than criticize my posts?

1. It's weak to just give up and give in. It's weak to just let the world push you around and not stand up against it. It's weak to let them win. It's weak to to fail yourself in such a manner you take your own life.

2. It's selfish to assume that your life isn't worth living.

3. Death is no escape, it's only an excuse.
I know what it is like to be a suicidal state and I know what it is like to want to die so hard that you would take any chance to let it all go. I learned the hard way that death is no escape from your problems.


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## Wabsta (Jan 15, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Urza said:
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And again, I agree with the cat boy.


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## ProtoKun7 (Jan 15, 2011)

As far as I'm concerned:
Suicide: No. Not under any circumstances.



			
				phoenixgoddess27 said:
			
		

> Either way, no one knows what happens after you die, so how can we say whether or not it'll be worse or better?
> The thing is, we'll never know.
> Death is death. No conscious thought or activity of any kind.
> 
> ...


Refix'd.
It's not forever in all cases. Just give it time.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

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Do you have anything better to do than make posts worth criticizing? You're delusional if you think that you're getting special treatment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




1. One could argue that sticking around and being the joke of reality could also be "letting them win." Killing yourself is showing them that you're not going to tolerate its bullshit. That you have control over your own existence and have chosen to end it.

2. (As per my above posts) Any action any human takes is selfish.

3. How is death _not_ an escape? It erases you, along with every problem you've ever had.


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## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> Do you have anything better to do than make posts worth criticizing? You're delusional if you think that you're getting special treatment.
> 
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And here you call me "delusional."
1. Oh really? You think just giving up is showing just how strong you really are? How does that prove anything, it only proves that you are a coward who can't face reality.

2. I am not taking back what I said on the selfish comment.

3. Do you really believe that once you are gone there are no more problems? Maybe not for you, but there are still problems for those who care about you and if you don't care about those that care about you, then I pity you.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Urza said:
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1. If I'm giving up on life, maybe you're giving up on death. Maybe you don't have the willpower to take that gunshot, that jump, those pills. Weakness and strength are subjective, and one might see _you_ as weak for _not_ killing yourself.

2. Of course, because suicide, like any action (for example posting in this thread) is at its roots selfish, so what you said is completely true.

3. If you're dead, you don't care about anything (because you're dead).


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## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Go on, give up on life then. You talk as though you have the balls to give up on life yet you haven't done yourself. At one point I did have the willpower to kick that chair under me, but I smartened up long ago. You think it proves that it's stronger to give up? Really how is it stronger to just give into the pressures of life and kill yourself? All you prove is you are a pathetic coward that couldn't handle life, all you are proving is just how weak willed you really are.


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## Urza (Jan 15, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Go on, give up on life then. You talk as though you have the balls to give up on life yet you haven't done yourself. At one point I did have the willpower to kick that chair under me, but I smartened up long ago. You think it proves that it's stronger to give up? Really how is it stronger to just give into the pressures of life and kill yourself? All you prove is you are a pathetic coward that couldn't handle life, all you are proving is just how weak willed you really are.


All I'm proving is that you're very close-minded.


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## monkat (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza, you're right in every way. I agree with everything that you say.

However, that doesn't make suicide a valid option.

I've struggled with suicidal thoughts for years, up until very recently where they just stopped. There is nothing purely logical on either side of the coin here, so it largely depends on your own moral standing, and how you feel at a given moment, but sometimes you just need a good ass-kicking to wake up.

You talk about how you take comfort in the fact that suicide is an option if need be, but the fact of the matter is that until you've done all you can do, you're not done. You can't make life perfect with the wave of a magic wand, and with a thousand pounds on your back, it feels impossible, but moving inch by inch will get you to the end.

You are a human, not a plant. You have survival insticts, you have an underlying desire to keep going, to continue advancing.

But if you have truly and ultimately lost the will to live, it's not our job to help you. We're busy creating the future - our future. I can only ask that you'll help.


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## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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And proving that I am close-minded about suicide accomplishes what?
That I am sensible human being? That clearly I think life is worth living, even through the hard parts?

And all I have proven is just how weak you really are.


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## Fear Zoa (Jan 15, 2011)

I place no value in my life or the lives of anyone but my closest friends.....that being said....I've though about suicide....but in the end...I want to see how the story ends.....

In short....it's for the weak.....but I don't look down at those who have killed themselves.....or have tried to.....


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## _Chaz_ (Jan 16, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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You always jump on him for having a legit point and opinion.
I saw this coming when I first saw that he posted, you're just so predictable.

I assume that you've never known anyone that's committed suicide. If you did, you wouldn't speak so highly of it.
If you're so fond of suicide, try it out and see if your opinion remains unchanged.


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## RNorthex (Jan 16, 2011)

i've got a phylosophic view on suicide and death, so i'm not afraid of it
i'm not willing to commit it, but if i die, i can't even care cuz i will not able to xD

about others
y, if one guy[who's just a best friend for me] would die, i'd commit suicide or if my life after university would end up in this country, i'd do it
but as of now, i'm ok with the stuff around and looking forward for a better future

if u die, there will be nothing
you won't be weak, you won't be pathetic and you won't be a coward, the people who say you're selfish are selfish themselves, cuz they want you to live even though you're suffering
it's your life, you can do whatever you want with it

call me coward, but i feel better that there's always the option of death if my life ever fails


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## nutella (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Go on, give up on life then. You talk as though you have the balls to give up on life yet you haven't done yourself. At one point I did have the willpower to kick that chair under me, but I smartened up long ago. You think it proves that it's stronger to give up? Really how is it stronger to just give into the pressures of life and kill yourself? All you prove is you are a pathetic coward that couldn't handle life, all you are proving is just how weak willed you really are.


The problem is that you never know if you could have handled life either if you were in there shoes. It's a little more complex than "Suicide is weak and cowardly".


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## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2011)

nutella said:
			
		

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That is true, but it still doesn't change things. Life is hard, life is hard for everyone. Simply giving up doesn't solve anything, it just shows you lack the willpower to fight back against what makes your life so hard.


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## nutella (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

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I think the biggest problem I have is with your original phrasing. Here's a scenario to explain what I mean.

Let's say there's one man who has suicidal tendencies because he lost a close friend of his. In the end, he has the courage to keep himself alive.
Let's say there's another man, trapped inside a burning building, and he can either burn to death and wait for the slim possibility of being saved or he can jump out the window. He chooses to jump out the window.

Is the second person weak but the first is strong? No, not necessarily. They may both be very strong people, it's just that the second person had a tougher scenario than the first person.

Case in point, suicide doesn't show you are weak and cowardly, it shows that you weren't strong enough to handle a particular adversity. Remember, some people have it much more tough than others. It's not a case of "Life is hard for everyone".


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## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2011)

nutella said:
			
		

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That is a valid point, but I wouldn't really consider jumping out of a burning building a "willing" suicide. What I mean by willing is that that man really did not have a that many choices. If anything that isn't suicide as much as sink or swim.
I guess to clear up what I mean.
It's weak for the first person to give up, since they have choice in the matter and can choose to live on.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> nutella said:
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There's a difference between life being hard for everyone, and life being extremely harder for others.

Suicide doesn't show you lack the willpower. If anything in many people's eyes, like mine, it shows that someone had more willpower than most of the world for holding out for so long, trying to get better. But sometimes, it's just inevitable. "Giving up" solves one thing, if that person believes in there's something else after, I'm not referring to heaven and hell, they're creating themselves a second chance, a hope that it will end up better. 

I'm sorry but for people who say "it just makes everybody else sad it's stupid," if you've gone through hell for so long, why should YOU have to worry about others happiness if you're not feeling anything. There's no point.


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## Densetsu (Jan 16, 2011)

johncenafan427 said:
			
		

> hey guys, in one of my classes *i have to write an essay on conflicts going on in the world*.
> i chose to write about *suicide*.


Last time I checked, suicide is not a world conflict.  

These are world conflicts.

So is the Burma-Myanmar conflict.  

Or the Mexican drug wars.  That would be more interesting to write about than suicide, which I repeat, is NOT a world conflict.  

But if your teacher uses the phrase "conflicts going on in the world" loosely enough to encompass suicide, you could really write about anything.  

Make things easy on yourself and write about the last time you were conflicted about what to eat for lunch and avoid all the unprovable controversy this thread has created.  That's taking the easy way out, like committing suicide, except you don't have to die.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Well, you know the quote: If you or anyone you know is thinking about suicide, please call National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: [email protected]@@[email protected]@@@.

They aren't really helpful. Suicide is the most selfish thing you can do. You leave a mess for other people to clean up, and those who cared about you are hurt.

Credit goes to Sky13:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Suicide? Worth it? Suicide is not a worthwile anything. I mean first of all let's say you do commit suicide. What exactly have you accomplished? What good comes of it? once again lets weigh the benefits on both sides. On side A you give up your life. You don't resolve anything. You don't make anything better. All you do is end what you consider to be a painful and pointless life. All it really is, is a waste. on side B you try to do the best you can. You make oppourtunities for yourself you suffer But you persever. And in the end you might make a difference to someone. But that's it; by makeing an impression You have done something! If nothing else YOu lived your life. You have done all that humanity could ever have asked of you. YOu were human. That is Worth something! Suicide, in my opinion is a weak and cowardly way to ruin (not just yours but also ) someone elses life. Even if suicide were "worth" it How would you ever know the result. You could speculate but you would never know.



I don't know if you are aware of it, but there are many parents and child advocacy groups in this country who are fighting to have schools become legally responsible for the teasing and bullying that goes on between students.

It may sound like a good idea. These people believe that if the schools are held legally responsible for teasing and bullying, then teasing and bullying will surely end. Or, at least, they will be able to sue the school and get a lot of money.

Also, I think that we should be holding parents too at least partially accountable for a lot of it. I am not saying that all parents of bullies are responsible but let's face it..How many parents are guilty of making fun of other people. Surely, how about the overweight lady coming out of the store with a load of groceries and mom or dad say things like "Hey looks like that lady doesn't need any more food she is so fat" or things like that. The kids hear what all parents say. And as all parents know they pick up everything all parents say that they are not suppose to. But the things all parents do say that they should hear they don't at all! 

Don't hit, kick, or push back to deal with someone bullying you or your friends. Fighting back just satisfies a bully and it's dangerous, too, because someone could get hurt. You're also likely to get in trouble. It's best to stay with others, stay safe, and get help from an adult. Never be alone.. Again, never be alone. Remember, If you can, try your best to ignore the bully's threats wont solve the problem at all! Don't listen to the teachers telling you to ignore the bully. NEVER! Dont listen to the teachers at all! Do something. You are smarter than your teachers.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 16, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> *Don't hit, kick, or push back to deal with someone bullying you or your friends. Fighting back just satisfies a bully and it's dangerous, *too, because someone could get hurt. You're also likely to get in trouble. It's best to stay with others, stay safe, and get help from an adult. Never be alone.. Again, never be alone. Remember, If you can, try your best to ignore the bully's threats wont solve the problem at all! Don't listen to the teachers telling you to ignore the bully. NEVER! Dont listen to the teachers at all! Do something. You are smarter than your teachers.




I'm sorry but I have to disagree. In elementary school in Grade 5, I still remember his name, Kris. Anyways, he bullied me every day for months and months and months. I just shook it off, but it kept happening. And it kept getting worse because I wasn't responding to it. Finally I stood up (he was more taller and more fit than me) for myself, I punched him down to the ground, jumped on top and kept punching him, and his buddies tried coming to me, I glanced at them, they backed off. I kept punching him and throwing him around (I'm a big guy, so I was easily able to life him onto my shoulders and throw him to the ground). Anyways, I stood up for myself, people were cheering for me because I was putting him in his place. I got suspended, but not because I was in trouble, but because they had to follow rules. After my 2 week suspension, I went back, he came up to me, and he apologized.

Pretty much same story in grade 8. I had this one guy bullying me with his friends. I went after the "leader" in the gym during gym class. Never was harassed again for the rest of my school career.


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## nutella (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> That is a valid point, but I wouldn't really consider jumping out of a burning building a "willing" suicide. What I mean by willing is that that man really did not have a that many choices. If anything that isn't suicide as much as sink or swim.
> I guess to clear up what I mean.
> It's weak for the first person to give up, since they have choice in the matter and can choose to live on.


Okay, okay. Let me use the example Ace used earlier. What if the person has lost all his family, his job and home. He's has nowhere to live and honestly believes he won't live another happy day in his life. In that case, unlike the man in the burning building, he can struggle on and live but why would he? He has nothing to live for. If he kills himself, is he weak? I mean, it's "willing" suicide, right? I don't believe he's weak.

It seems like an extreme case, but I've met a couple of people in my life who are in similar situations, one of which I'm sure has by now killed himself.


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## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> There's a difference between life being hard for everyone, and life being extremely harder for others.
> 
> Suicide doesn't show you lack the willpower. If anything in many people's eyes, like mine, it shows that someone had more willpower than most of the world for holding out for so long, trying to get better. But sometimes, it's just inevitable. "Giving up" solves one thing, if that person believes in there's something else after, I'm not referring to heaven and hell, they're creating themselves a second chance, a hope that it will end up better.
> 
> ...


As hard as it maybe to believe. I still say, it's stronger to move.


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## nutella (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> As hard as it maybe to believe. I still say, it's stronger to move.


And I have no problem with that. But you can understand if he was to kill himself, right?


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## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2011)

nutella said:
			
		

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My thoughts on it will never change, but I understand perfectly he if he did kill himself.


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## Depravo (Jan 16, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> Suicide is the most selfish thing you can do. You leave a mess for other people to clean up, and those who cared about you are hurt.


Isn't it just as selfish to expect someone to continue living a life of utter misery just so YOU don't feel guilty? I don't think anyone ever committed suicide in a fit of petulant spite.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 16, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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That's your opinion. I will say mine, ok ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I didnt say that I don't feel gulity. Again, that's your opinion because it is the most selfish things, yes.


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## Depravo (Jan 16, 2011)

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So your entire counter argument is - you're wrong, I'm right? I can see I'm dealing with a mass debater. Or maybe just a wanker.


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## omgpwn666 (Jan 16, 2011)

Bullies need to be stood up to. I remember seeing kids getting bullied, but when the bully would see me they would be like, "Hey man!". They like to pick on those smaller than them. ShadowSoldier's story made me very happy just to read. Bullies don't usually bully one person, so you may have put him in his place for the many others bullied, too. I never had a fight not solve a problem... Out of school now.. That may be a different story, would probably get locked up now.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 16, 2011)

Depravo said:
			
		

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You do not understand me. There is no right or wrong. We live in an era in which it is important to have opinions. That's what philosophy is all about - coming up with answers to questions we can't normally answer.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
> Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.



This completely, but with a few caveats. 

If you're on your death bed, and YOUR FAMILY, not just you, have come to terms with your death, then by all means. Also, if you are completely alone, meaning you have no friends, and no family, and you just can't take the world's shit anymore, well youre only hurting yourself at that point, just make sure no one is watching you. No one wants to go through therapy just because you wanted to end it all.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 16, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> Well, you are lower than he is even he apologized. You shouldn't punched him down at all. Violence is not the answer!



So you're saying I should have just stood there every day after I told teachers and principals numerous times, and just take his beating every day instead of standing up for myself and the others he bullied?


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 16, 2011)

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No, don't tell the teachers and principals at all. Why tell the teachers and principals ? They are the bad news and they won't do anything. Anyway, tell your parents, friends or anybody who can do something about it.


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## em2241992 (Jan 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Honestly I have to say it's a weak and selfish thing to do.
> Not just is it weak to just give in and up, letting the world win, but it's selfish to just foolishly take your own life despite knowing that your life has now been taken from all the people love and the people that love you. Personally I don't agree with the idea of suicide.
> I basically share the same opinion, but I have one exception. If you are physically or mentally in a great deal of suffering, something like being burdened with cancer and you know you are suffering in a lot of pain and anguish knowing that no cure in the world will save you and must endure that not knowing when the end will come, I think it is perfectly acceptable to commit suicide. Who would want to live with such torment?
> EDIT:
> ...


I didn't see this at all, so again same opinion.


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## notmeanymore (Jan 16, 2011)

Was just assigned an argumentative essay for school, so I think I may base it on this topic, since there are so many varying opinions outright given to me here for me to "counter" in my essay.

Now then, back to seriousness:

I, as a Christian (inb4 everyone not reading anymore), am very much so opposed to suicide. My friends often have suicidal thoughts, but what bothers me even more is that one of my friends considers suicide a good alternative despite the fact that she had a cousin who committed suicide and knows the pain that comes from a family member dying. She, too, is a Christian, and _knows_ where her cousin is and where she will be if she does commit suicide. It just plain bothers me how people still think of it as an option.

To put it bluntly, suicide is the worst possible thing you could do. I agree with the Cat Boy on most counts. Your problems don't just vanish once you die. If anything, you'll have an even worse fate than what you had on Earth. Don't give up just because life is kicking you down, get back up and say




to those who wish harm upon you.

If a man loses his family, his job, and his home, (which is a scenario that I honestly can't even imagine the pain of) he should clean himself up, do some odd jobs to get some money then get an apartment and start anew. It's almost like a reincarnation I suppose.

Feel free to ignore the following paragraph if Christianity "offends" you.

If you're feeling like life can't get any worse, like the world is just putting you down, Jesus can save you and make your whole world seem brighter.


			
				QUOTE(Matthew 11:30) said:
			
		

> For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Lean on God, and things just get easier. It's like having your own personal "Easy Button"

*insert flame post below*


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 16, 2011)

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That's easy to say in your situation dude. Also, all of my friends and everybody in the school knew about it. Parents just said "tell the teachers/principals." The best thing someone can do is stand up to a bully and make them realize "Okay shit, this guy isn't a push over, he's willing to fight back, which means extra work from me, fuck this, not worth it."


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## darkreaperofdrea (Jan 16, 2011)

leaning on god?srsly
if he were to solve all your problems,he wouldn't get you through so much suffering,that's selfish from him
but if you believe in nothing,he is a good alternative,he makes you have something to live for,had friends that became christian and well,have a better emotional life
i for one don't believe in god,only death and ghosts,i don't believe in satan either
so i'm...atheist(?


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## MelodieOctavia (Jan 16, 2011)

darkreaperofdreams said:
			
		

> leaning on god?srsly
> if he were to solve all your problems,he wouldn't get you through so much suffering,that's selfish from him
> but if you believe in nothing,he is a good alternative,he makes you have something to live for,had friends that became christian and well,have a better emotional life
> i for one don't believe in god,only death and ghosts,i don't believe in satan either
> so i'm...atheist(?



This is not a discussion about religion, so don't turn it into one please.


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## darkreaperofdrea (Jan 16, 2011)

i'm not turning it into one,that's what i think of people speaking of god and if you see it right,it has to do with suicide and whatnot


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## Urza (Jan 16, 2011)

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Several very important people in my life have taken their own, and I have to say I'm quite disgusted that you would go so low to try and troll someone about their experiences with suicide.

Its on thing to go online and to troll people, every kid with a modem does at some point. However taking such a low blow on such a personal subject really shows what kind of person you are.


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 16, 2011)

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I didn't say it is easy. Also, the parents dont understand anything. If not for parents (They need to protect the children/teenage children but if they just said "tell the teachers/principals" which mean they are lousy parents) then tell your friends or anybody who can do something about it. Don't let a bully win.


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## jurassicplayer (Jan 16, 2011)

If there is one plus that I have ever gained from anime, it's that if I committed suicide, I wouldn't get to see the next episode and thus, I'd rather stay alive and watch it.

On a slightly more serious note, 
Reaction 1: I think if I can prevent someone from committing suicide, it's fine. 
Reaction 2: If they commit suicide and are in the right state of mind, it's fine.
Reaction 3: If they are in a bad state of mind, then refer to reaction 1.
Reaction 4: If I hate them and they commit suicide, it's fine.
Reaction 5: If I like them and they attempt committing suicide, I will freely ridicule any flawed points they have supporting their suicidal thoughts, and then help them out.
Reaction 6: If they are someone I don't care about, it's fine.

I never had very high hopes for mankind, it doesn't surprise me that many other people don't have high hopes for themselves either.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 16, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> I didn't say it is easy. Also, the parents dont understand anything. If not for parents (They need to protect the children/teenage children but if they just said "tell the teachers/principals" which mean they are lousy parents) then tell your friends or anybody who can do something about it. Don't let a bully win.



First of all, I don't really care what you say about my dad, but my mom is amazing, so fuck you for saying she's "lousy". And if you read at all, I said my friends knew about it. Also, don't let a bully win? How exactly did I let him win if I stood up for him while he bullied me and countless others, and he came up to me and apologized after.


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## Evo.lve (Jan 16, 2011)

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I concur.

I'll put it in a more extreme situation.

A guy with a baseball bat or whatever walks up to you, every single day, and beats you merciless for several years. After countless broken bones and millions of dollars spent in surgery, you decide to fight back. So you go and buy yourself a gun, and the next time he approaches you, you shoot him several times. Whilst he is on his deathbed, he manages to squeeze out an apology as his last words.

Is this saying that the guy who kept getting bashed is weak? Is he lower than the guy who bashed him simply because the guy who bashed him apologised?


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## Devante (Jan 16, 2011)

Suicide is a personal choice.

I'm surprised about the amount of people who are anti-suicide.
Not just think it's a bad idea, but completely against it.

No one can tell you what to do. It's your life and is completely up to you.
Yes it affects people around you. Yes it makes them sad. Yes it's something that should be thought through.

If, after you've taken all the considerations, you still feel like you want to commit suicide, then it is your choice and I will never condemn you.


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## TheTwoR's (Jan 16, 2011)

I think it's stupid, cause when you're dead, no GBAtemp


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## monkat (Jan 16, 2011)

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> Urza, you're right in every way. I agree with everything that you say.
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I'll just leave this here.


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## Urza (Jan 16, 2011)

monkat said:
			
		

> I'll just leave this here.


Are you really so starved for attention that you actually quoted your own post?


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## spotanjo3 (Jan 16, 2011)

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Sighing.. I didnt say about your parents either. Never mind. it is getting nowhere. Also, watch your language because I dont like swearing, man. Thanks.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 16, 2011)

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> Sighing.. I didnt say about your parents either.
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lol


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## _Chaz_ (Jan 16, 2011)

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I laughed a bit.


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## GundamXXX (Jan 16, 2011)

Let me jsut say this 

For all those who think suicide is selfish, guess what. Everyone is selfish in whatever they do.
I donate money to Greenpeace because it makes me feel good
I helped an old lady across the road so that I can say "Im a good person"

No one has ever done something utterly selflessly that I know of, with that I mean that you gained NOTHING from it not even the slightest hint of satisfaction.

Dont get me wrong, donating money etc isnt a bad thing but in the end its all about what it does for you and you do it to make yourself feel better or gain something which is selfish. The word selfish isnt a negative word but is used to describe negative acts

For those who think suicide is weak, its not. Taking your own life takes alot of courage.
What suicide is is an easy way out. Its easier to kill yourself then it is deal with your problems. Is this a bad thing? No its not. Its a choice these people make. 


The only thing I dont like about suicide is when they do it and other suffer. Jumping in front of a train scars the traindriver for life. Shooting yourself through the head scars the person who finds you for life and same goes for hanging oneself. If you do it, make sure its not messy and people dont get a shock effect when they find you


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## kupo3000 (Jan 16, 2011)

Right now I have an uncle who's dying with terminal cancer.
He used to be a hard worker and now can't even barely eat. 
If he was offered euthanasia he'll probably take it in a heart beat to end his suffering.
But there's a problem. Euthanasia is illegal in Puerto Rico. 
He now has to slowly die in pain (Medical Marijuana is also illegal) due to draconian laws.
Suicide is a grey concept with many different variations.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Jan 16, 2011)

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But he didn't let the bully win, he beat the shit out of him. And if anyone else happened to be getting bullied by the same person, chances are the bully would of stopped bullying them to avoid the same situation. (of getting beaten up)


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## RNorthex (Jan 16, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> Let me jsut say this
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> For all those who think suicide is selfish, guess what. Everyone is selfish in whatever they do.



that's common bio-psyché, yes, but what we call selfish now is not the same selfish you're thinking about
cuz then i can easily say no-one has a soul, then everybody who kills himself did neither do good nor bad


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## GundamXXX (Jan 16, 2011)

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Actually you have no idea what kind of selfish Im thinking about obviously

All aspects of selfishness are the same. They are done for our own benefit. The way others perceive it is what makes it negative or positive.


A man robbing a family for money and shooting the lot of em, in his eyes positive because he got what he wanted. In our eyes negative.
Abit of an extreme example but you can see where Im going with this, its all a matter of perspective


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## RNorthex (Jan 16, 2011)

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actually, i do get you
more than u think
i love philosophy myself, so i know the basics

that's why i said "other selfishness"
from our view vs the reality


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## GundamXXX (Jan 16, 2011)

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Fair enough then ^^


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## ProtoKun7 (Jan 17, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> Don't hit, kick, or push back to deal with someone bullying you or your friends. Fighting back just satisfies a bully and it's dangerous, too, because someone could get hurt. You're also likely to get in trouble. It's best to stay with others, stay safe, and get help from an adult. Never be alone.. Again, never be alone. Remember, If you can, try your best to ignore the bully's threats wont solve the problem at all! Don't listen to the teachers telling you to ignore the bully. NEVER! Dont listen to the teachers at all! Do something. You are smarter than your teachers.


If I'm reading this correctly:

1. Don't attack them (fair enough).
2. Don't ignore the bully, despite the fact that bullies want attention and starving them of that attention is actually a good idea.
3. Your solution is to never be alone again. That _might_ be just a tad impractical.

I can see it now...
_"Hey there, Jimmy. I've noticed that you've been attacking me personally for some time now. I choose not to fight you, as I believe this isn't the way, nor will I ignore your attempts to provoke me even though that's quite an effective tactic and actually makes the most sense. What I will do though, is give you a darn good talking to, listing reasons why you know you don't really want to beat me up. I know you won't hurt me while I'm talking to you now because I'm clearly taking this very seriously."_


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## Hedgehogofchaos (Jan 17, 2011)

I believe that it is a choice that someone suffering from a disease that lacks a cure, or for someone who is a vegetable.
People who are suffering from depression and other associated mental illnesses should seek help as coping with and preventing depression is much easier to deal with medicine and therapy. Honestly speaking from experience depression can be overcome with relative ease, but living in a vegetative state would not be nice, no hope for a future


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## MelodieOctavia (Jan 17, 2011)

Hedgehogofchaos said:
			
		

> I believe that it is a choice that someone suffering from a disease that lacks a cure, or for someone who is a vegetable.
> People who are suffering from depression and other associated mental illnesses should seek help as coping with and preventing depression is much easier to deal with medicine and therapy. Honestly speaking from experience depression can be overcome with relative ease, but living in a vegetative state would not be nice, no hope for a future



If someone is a Veg, i'm sure they wouldn't have the capacity to kill themselves, much less move on their own.


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## fgghjjkll (Jan 17, 2011)

Thread too long, didn't read.

Though I did read some Urz and Ace Gunman posts and some other people.

I'll just throw it in here:
Let us say that someone has been diagnosed by cancer for a few years now. The cancer has already spread to many of his vital organs and will very soon reach the heart. You have been on the hospital's life support for quite a while now.
Isn't it selfish to be living your life to it's maximum when there are other people who need the life support more than you?
Some of your organs are still healthy. Why not donate them before the cancer hits those organs?
Your close friends, families and loved ones understand and accept the fact that you only have a few weeks to live. Would it not be selfish for them to keep you on life support rather than ending it now and hand over the facilities and equipment to someone who needs it more?

Hope this puts stuff into perspective.


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## Goli (Jan 17, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> If you believe there's nothing afterward, what reason do you have not to kill yourself? Does it really matter if you live another 40 years or 40 seconds, if you're dead at the end anyways?


Why don't we go killing each other or ourselves then? We're all gonna be dead one way or another anyway. Or are we?
I have a conflict in my own self regarding suicide in that I think it's selfish and not selfish at the same time.
I think it's selfish because ending my own life would cause suffering to others. If I care enough about others to know they'll suffer when I die then it probably means I don't have a true reason to commit suicide in the first place, because you can't really care about others if they don't care about _you_. But how can you really tell if others do care about you? Maybe they just don't know how to express it... But do others even exist? How can I tell this isn't but a fragment of my mind? Maye it's all a dream and killing myself would end the dream. Why would I want to end the dream though?
Or what if others do exist nand we're all having the same dream? Maybe the true reality awaits us in death. But we can't really know unless we die. But when we die we can't pass on our experiences to others, we can only pass on what we did before we died. 
So maybe people who contemplate suicide shouldn't commit it in the hopes that someday someone will be revived after being death. Then wwe can all know what it's like. Then we can all commit suicide if something good awaits beyond death. But what if something good awaits only those who don't suicide or take the life of others? I could keep going but I won't. It's all a byzantine argument.


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## nutella (Jan 17, 2011)

fgghjjkll said:
			
		

> Thread too long, didn't read.
> 
> Though I did read some Urz and Ace Gunman posts and some other people.
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It isn't suicide if you take yourself off life support, because you die as a result of your condition. It's a different thing if you willingly take a lethal injection.


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## HeadHunt (Jan 17, 2011)

Suicide is a choice. Selfish or not, some people make the choice to end their lives. Don't judge them, you don't know them. Psychological problems are the most fundamental problem with these patients. Help can't always be given because most of the time people don't notice their manic depressions.


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## HeadHunt (Jan 17, 2011)

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I think every life is sacred. You can't kill people because other people would benefit from it. That's the same with sick children in Africa, why don't kill them and take their organs. Sure why not, since they don't have a future. You can't think like that.

In response to your 'cancer-case':
if the cancer is spread throughout the body I highly doubt they will use any of those organs. Metastasing has already begun, so you can't risk to put an 'infected' organ in a very, very weak person (the receiving patient).

Also isn't it selfish that people want organs from a very ill person?


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## fgghjjkll (Jan 17, 2011)

HeadHunt said:
			
		

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Except the situations are entirely different.
What.. A little blind feverish African kid with HIV/AIDS can still live long if they take meds and stuff, but someone with a severe case of cancer is going to die.


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## nutella (Jan 17, 2011)

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That' completely irrelevant to what I said. As I stated, taking someone off life support is not murder or suicide. You are not killing them, cancer is killing them.


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## fgghjjkll (Jan 17, 2011)

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But by choosing to be taken off life support, you are choosing to INTENTIONALLY END YOUR LIFE EARLIER.


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## nutella (Jan 17, 2011)

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That may not necessarily be your intention. It could be that keeping yourself on life support is taxing on your family's money, possibly emotionally taxing as well. You may be prolonging an inevitable death  just because of life support, while another person who needs it and has a chance at survival is deprived of life support because of you. The point is that by taking yourself off life support, your intention may not be to end your life, but give someone else who has a better chance at survival the opportunity to have life support. I mean who knows. You may even by some miracle survive.


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## scrtmstr (Jan 17, 2011)

I was just reading up this thread, when I was pinged by my friend. The stepbrother of his nephew had commited suicide. I seriously don't get it, why would you do such a thing?
You say because you feel shit about everything. Face it, it's part of life. I've been through the biggest hellhole in my life, and I'm still here. I never thought about suicide, and I will never do it. Life has it's ups and downs, and it's a challenge to deal with them.
Seriously, I've had 6 suicides over the past 5 months, and I'm getting a bit tired of this honestly. 1 Guy I knew for a bit (he was a teacher, and the nephew of a friend of mine), Another girl lived in the same village as me, the other one I didn't know at all, but he was in my school, and a few other people who I had seen before. And now people around me are getting so depressed about losing everyone, that they are thinking about suicide to. It's a chain reaction, and I'm just trying to stop them from doing it.


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## fgghjjkll (Jan 17, 2011)

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That does not change the fact that you have intentionally ended your life.
I think Urza is correct. In some situations, suicide isn't a weakness. It shows that you are brave and kind when you accept your fate and prolong one's life who has a chance to survive while ending yours which is going to end in a few weeks anyways.


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## nutella (Jan 18, 2011)

fgghjjkll said:
			
		

> That does not change the fact that you have intentionally ended your life.


It does actually, but I see where this is going, so I'll leave it at that.


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## mucus (Jan 18, 2011)

i am pro suicide.
not that it's anything i'd want to do myself.


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## SmokeFox (Jan 18, 2011)

mucus said:
			
		

> i am pro suicide.
> not that it's anything i'd want to do myself.


If youre pro suicide and dont want to yourself youre against it! Simple just like that.


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