# PAL SNES having a black screen of death (Sometimes flickers green)



## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

Hello,

So I got a PAL Super Nintendo for 7 euros with Super Mario World (Yeah, that's cheap, but it has no controller). However, everytime I'm trying to get the game working, the console gives a red led (Usual stuff) but that's about it. No image or sound on the TV. It sometimes flickers some green lines on the top of the TV for some reason but it's really regular and the green lines only appear for a fraction of second. 

I tried cleaning as much things I could, but not having a nintendo security screwdriver, I can't get behind the motherboard.

I'm using a GC video cable and a 12V 4A power supply.

Do you have any ideas ?

Thank you.


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## koffieleut (May 1, 2017)

Is the cic chip stil connected?


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## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

The cic chip is the one on the cartridge right ?


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## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

Ok so I managed to bypass the security screws, I cleaned, but nothing... I'm getting desperate


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## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

I saw a little bit of corrosion between C59 and J2 on the motherboard, i scratched it a little and saw the metal so I stopped but nothing changed, everything is connected and must be working, why isn't it working ?


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## Aerocool (May 1, 2017)

Im no SNES expert, but did you try to flick that tiny switch in the back near the AC Input? Maybe it doesnt work if the switch is in the wrong Position.

Edit: and try another AV cable, maybe yours is broken.


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## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

My AV cable is fine, it works on my gamecube but I don't have any switch, at the back, all I have is AV out and AC in.


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## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

Quite weird I don't have any RF port. But anyway, may be a model that was specifically made without rf


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## Jack Daniels (May 1, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Quite weird I don't have any RF port. But anyway, may be a model that was specifically made without rf


what? no, there's no snes or even super famicom model without one. the switch was only on other models, it's for switching between ntsc and pal, and can be made yourself (some shops sold pre modded consoles).
there should be a small RCA i think is the official name for the connector witch can be used to connect the console to an old tv connectet like your VCR would have been connected back in the days (tulp co cable plug should do just with original cable the detected frquention would be better set.


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## Niels Van Son (May 1, 2017)

Jack Daniels said:


> what? no, there's no snes or even super famicom model without one. the switch was only on other models, it's for switching between ntsc and pal, and can be made yourself (some shops sold pre modded consoles).
> there should be a small RCA i think is the official name for the connector witch can be used to connect the console to an old tv connectet like your VCR would have been connected back in the days (tulp co cable plug should do just with original cable the detected frquention would be better set.


Oh yeah, I didn't know that. Thanks.


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## Jack Daniels (May 2, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Oh yeah, I didn't know that. Thanks.


the problem could well be the cable, though depending on what the power led shows it could also be short cicuit.
the failure you descriped is most reneral fail screen, and the snes wasn't that nice built so it's easy to see what is wrong except when it's the power supply.
if you cot an empty snes cartridge, there's a hw test rom for snes, just you'll need to burn it to a real cardridge...
and if you can read schematics: http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8863/snscpugpm0102.png


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## kutteke (May 4, 2017)

start by trying a game you know works. black screen is usual an issue on the connector side of things. clean the cart you have with alcohol or windex with a q-tip untill it stays completely white. check inside the snes if there's anything clogging the connector. test the game on another snes if possible.  an rf cable from a megadrive or NES or whatever should also work to test if the cable is the issue. if you see the screen flicker when you turn on the snes the cable should be fine. if the cable is bad you should at least get sound if the snes starts up.


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## Niels Van Son (May 4, 2017)

The screen flickers, the only game I have in Super Mario World, I tried to clean the connectors as much as I could, and Unfortunately nobody around has a Super Nintendo or even a game on it, on an old tv it does horizontal green scan lines all the time, but nothing except that, no background, no sound.


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## Jack Daniels (May 4, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> The screen flickers, the only game I have in Super Mario World, I tried to clean the connectors as much as I could, and Unfortunately nobody around has a Super Nintendo or even a game on it, on an old tv it does horizontal green scan lines all the time, but nothing except that, no background, no sound.


that's not much, but what side of france are you from? since i can see if i can still find the games for my snes (mine is broken beyond repair) i should have at least 3 real games and one of the first gen copy boxes (wich will need a battery replacement to work again) at my brothers place... only thing is those are english versions (pal) not france, since...


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## Niels Van Son (May 4, 2017)

Do you want my full adress ? I don't want to send my adress on a public forum, maybe in PM ?


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## Niels Van Son (May 4, 2017)

I mean, as you can see I can understand English pretty well. I don't really care about English since that's PAL


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## Niels Van Son (May 6, 2017)

Well, now it makes a lot of flickering (green and violet horizontal lines) and a _sometimes _do the sound old crt TV does when they are on


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## Jack Daniels (May 6, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Well, now it makes a lot of flickering (green and violet horizontal lines) and a _sometimes _do the sound old crt TV does when they are on


sound like a corrosion problem with the graphics processor. but i'm not sure it'll help if i send the games, plus i'm not sure they'll work (my snes died about 5 years ago). and i'm not sure where i left all stuff, sure you can pm mei mean if i still find them i would send them for just the send costs... but getting more of the disturbence on your screen sounds like it's over anyway... know that you can also get your pc a full snes upgrade (cardridge slot, emulator and 2 controller slots) or mod a raspberry pi (3)... it's cheap should fit nicely in the case and about all options shold be addable with https://retropie.org.uk/ and https://www.retrode.com/


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## Niels Van Son (May 6, 2017)

Jack Daniels said:


> sound like a corrosion problem with the graphics processor. but i'm not sure it'll help if i send the games, plus i'm not sure they'll work (my snes died about 5 years ago).


I need to check that graphics processor, I will do it as soon as I can


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Quite weird I don't have any RF port. But anyway, may be a model that was specifically made without rf



That doesn't sound right. It was NTSC systems that had a model made without RF. (the pictured design is NTSC exclusive, and officially can't play PAL games)
http://www.spaghettioh.com/wp-content/snes/snes_model2.jpg

Any other SNES should at least have an RCA plug for RF. Usually next to a channel select switch.

PAL Gamecube cables are a bit different for video from the PAL SNES. But audio is the same. http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> That doesn't sound right. It was NTSC systems that had a model made without RF. (the pictured design is NTSC exclusive, and officially can't play PAL games)
> http://www.spaghettioh.com/wp-content/snes/snes_model2.jpg
> 
> Any other SNES should at least have an RCA plug for RF. Usually next to a channel select switch.



As I said, only AV out and AC in, no switch at all. Maybe RF is a special cable that you plug into AV out


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> As I said, only AV out and AC in, no switch at all. Maybe RF is a special cable that you plug into AV out



Then you have either a modified or clone system. That description only applies to NTSC consoles, not PAL.


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> Then you have either a modified or clone system. That description only applies to NTSC consoles, not PAL.



This is clearly an official one, Nintendo 1992 SNSP-CPU-01 motherboard


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> This is clearly an official one, Nintendo 1992 SNSP-CPU-01 motherboard



Third-party alterations are a separate matter. We know what Nintendo released, every legitimate PAL territory SNES was shipped and sold with RF.


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> Third-party alterations are a separate matter. We know what Nintendo released, every legitimate PAL territory SNES was shipped and sold with RF.


I found that the AV Out port is actually labeled "Multi Out". I'm about to send pictures.


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> I found that the AV Out port is actually labeled "Multi Out". I'm about to send pictures.



Multi Out normally means the port outputs composite, s-video, and RGB.
Except a SNS-001 only does composite.

AV Out was used in Japan for the SHVC-101's port.

Edit: Corrected. Sorry for the misinformation!


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

There you go

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That confusion solved, the console still doesn't work for no reason.


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

Okay, so the rear panel is not official. That much is cleared up.
There's no sign of any modification to remove RF.


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> Okay, so the rear panel is not official. That much is cleared up.
> There's no sign of any modification to remove RF.


The solder points of the motherboard (Where the RF rca port should be) are totally fine and unused

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Please excuse the mediocre quality of my phone's camera


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

The answer is very simple: Your SNES is a counterfeit.

Like I was saying before, all PAL models produced by Nintendo have RF.


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> The answer is very simple: Your SNES is a counterfeit.
> 
> Like I was saying before, all PAL models produced by Nintendo have RF.



What I don't understand is that all Nintendo and Sony chips look legit and the overall look of the console really makes me think of a real snes. The console even outputs green flickers like it's trying to output something


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> What I don't understand is that all Nintendo and Sony chips look legit and the overall look of the console really makes me think of a real snes. The console even outputs green flickers like it's trying to output something



Well, the American mini SNES has rather devious fakes. But you have a point, I don't think I've heard of such treachery done for PAL.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=counterfeit_snes

Anyway, could the power supply be an issue?
PAL SNES is designed for AC input. DC should work though.
NTSC SNES is designed for DC center negative input.


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> Well, the American mini SNES has rather devious fakes. But you have a point, I don't think I've heard of such treachery done for PAL.
> http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=counterfeit_snes



I also noticed that the console's cartridge trap as "PAL Version" written on it which, after doing some research, might be a generic PAL Version a.k.a the one that sold in most Europe countries. But not in France (The one sold in France is SNSP-001A(FRA) )

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But hold on, the back of the console actually says SNSP-001A(FRA), this is getting weirder and weirder


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## Lumstar (May 7, 2017)

I might owe you an apology.
It's looking like the SNSP-001A(FRA) has no RF after all...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Console-Nin...970138?hash=item2a6a5aec9a:g:jpkAAOSwc1FXYlsO


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Lumstar said:


> I might owe you an apology.
> It's looking like the SNSP-001A(FRA) has no RF after all...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Console-Nin...970138?hash=item2a6a5aec9a:g:jpkAAOSwc1FXYlsO


I have to thank YOU figuring that out because I now know that the motherboard itself is a FRA

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Lumstar said:


> Well, the American mini SNES has rather devious fakes. But you have a point, I don't think I've heard of such treachery done for PAL.
> http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=counterfeit_snes
> 
> Anyway, could the power supply be an issue?
> ...



I think the power supply is ok, It outputs 12V with 4A in (-)--(o--(+) (Positive polarity)


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## Niels Van Son (May 7, 2017)

Update !



Just to be clear about the problem. When I tilt a _little bit _the cartridge the console do something else (scan lines, etc.) but no sound. I think this inside of cartridge connector might have some corrosion in it, I will try to get some contact cleaner and cross my fingers.


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

hmm looks like what happens when i tried my rockman x cart in my pal snes. might be a bad lockout chip.


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> hmm looks like what happens when i tried my rockman x cart in my pal snes. might be a bad lockout chip.



Knowing that the screen becomes different every time I move the cartridge, It might be a connector/corrosion issue, at least, I hope.


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

i'd order the cheapest game i could find on ebay or in the local 2ndhand markets. to rule out a bad game


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> i'd order the cheapest game i could find on ebay or in the local 2ndhand markets. to rule out a bad game



I don't honestly think that's the game's fault, maybe it is, but it was in way better condition than the console itself when I got it. All the chips of the game look good though

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Ok now it's only making horizontal green scan lines after a green flash.


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

exactly what my rockman x did. really looks like a lockout chip that is refusing to give the okay signal. either game or snes. and looks can be deceiving. you should test something to be sure. no use trying to fix something you're not sure is broken. or you could disable the lockout chip on the snes side.


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> exactly what my rockman x did. really looks like a lockout chip that is refusing to give the okay signal. either game or snes. and looks can be deceiving. you should test something to be sure. no use trying to fix something you're not sure is broken. or you could disable the lockout chip on the snes side.


How could I disable the lockout chip on the snes ?
Could I harm my console by doing that ?


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

any modification if done wrong can harm your console. its not rocketscience but it is possible. 
you have 3 options:
region free mod with switches (best compatability): http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/snes-5060hz-switch-with-lockout-switch/
switchless mod (a little harder a lot expensive)
or simply disable the chip: http://www.gamesx.com/importmod/sneslockout.htm

i recommend the first option. but i personally would still try to get another game to see what it does. even if its just borrowing one. or going to someone with your snes who has games to test. the more you know the less you fail.

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If you're ever in the neighbourhood of belgium I'd help you out.


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

So I have to disable the chip by getting this : http://sneslab.free.fr/images/Rylefury/Switchs_Snes/dezonage1.jpg not having any contact between the motherboard and the little thing marked by the red arrow ?

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kutteke said:


> any modification if done wrong can harm your console. its not rocketscience but it is possible.
> you have 3 options:
> region free mod with switches (best compatability): http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/snes-5060hz-switch-with-lockout-switch/
> switchless mod (a little harder a lot expensive)
> ...




Wait ; Belgium ? Don't you speak french ?


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

I'm from the dutch-speaking part of Belgium. Mais oui je parle francais aussi  
but its not my native language so it could be better .


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> I'm from the dutch-speaking part of Belgium. Mais oui je parle francais aussi
> but its not my native language so it could be better .



Well good to know ! Speaking about the console, I now figured out how to region-free the console, but these little metal thingies are quite hard to get removed


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

if you do this mod i recommend soldering a switch between the pin and the board. that way you can re-enable the chip at any time

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yes you need to be very careful. first cut and then bend it upwards a little bit. make sure not to wiggle the leg, it wil break off easily. if you are unsure about what you are doing. maybe consult a friend who has some soldering skills.


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> if you do this mod i recommend soldering a switch between the pin and the board. that way you can re-enable the chip at any time



The only soldering iron I have is a really big one, if I use it, I will probably make the entire chip melt


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

in that case be safe and get another game to test before cutting the leg . i'd keep it as a last resort option if the other game you test does the same thing.


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> in that case be safe and get another game to test before cutting the leg . i'd keep it as a last resort option if the other game you test does the same thing.



The thing is, I have to find another game. The oldest console one of my friends have is an n64, and the only way for me to get some games would be to order them via ebay or something


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

really? dont you have a secondhand sales webpage or something where you can search in your area? 
maybe a retro game store, or post on your facebook asking if someone has one to test? 
you could find some cheap games no one wants on ebay like sports titles. 
snes games arent everywhere but you should be able to find at least one if you look for it


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> really? dont you have a secondhand sales webpage or something where you can search in your area?
> maybe a retro game store, or post on your facebook asking if someone has one to test?
> you could find some cheap games no one wants on ebay like sports titles.
> snes games arent everywhere but you should be able to find at least one if you look for it



We have leboncoin.fr in France which is an upgraded ebay espcially made for France but no games under 10 euros ans still, there are far away from me. I could still ask on Facebook though.

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kutteke said:


> really? dont you have a secondhand sales webpage or something where you can search in your area?
> maybe a retro game store, or post on your facebook asking if someone has one to test?
> you could find some cheap games no one wants on ebay like sports titles.
> snes games arent everywhere but you should be able to find at least one if you look for it



Thanks for helping me though


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> in that case be safe and get another game to test before cutting the leg . i'd keep it as a last resort option if the other game you test does the same thing.


Also, Do I need to bend the leg or cut it ?


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## kutteke (May 8, 2017)

first cut it. if you want to install a switch bend it upwards for easier installation


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## Niels Van Son (May 8, 2017)

kutteke said:


> first cut it. if you want to install a switch bend it upwards for easier installation



I don't want to install a switch just yet, I payed 1 euro for the console, if I break it, it's not really a problem. So I break it by pulling it with a micro screwdriver ?


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## kutteke (May 9, 2017)

depends on how carefull you are


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## DjoeN (May 9, 2017)

It's always best to place a switch when you mod a snes mod 

I've done a few YEARS ago, it's not that hard, even with very a bit soldering knowledge.
1 switch for 50/60Hz and one switch to enable/disable the lockout chip and i modified the case to fit PAL/NTSC carts.


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## Niels Van Son (May 9, 2017)

DjoeN said:


> It's always best to place a switch when you mod a snes mod
> 
> I've done a few YEARS ago, it's not that hard, even with very a bit soldering knowledge.
> 1 switch for 50/60Hz and one switch to enable/disable the lockout chip and i modified the case to fit PAL/NTSC carts.



I mean, I would need to get a really tiny soldering iron, I will try the contact cleaner method first, if that doesn't work I will try with another cartridge, and that still doesn't work well let's begin to solder !


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## DjoeN (May 9, 2017)

I didn't use a tiny soldering iron, just used the one that came with my soldering iron from the store, think i bought it once in Aldi years ago


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## Niels Van Son (May 9, 2017)

DjoeN said:


> I didn't use a tiny soldering iron, just used the one that came with my soldering iron from the store, think i bought it once in Aldi years ago



Mine is way too big, it's like the size of the chip itself


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## DjoeN (May 9, 2017)

Lol, must be some heavy dudty wires you solder if it's that size 

The most important thing when soldering -> good equipment and enviroment:
- Place to have your pcb steady and locked
- Good light
- Magnifier
- Relative steady hands
- Non agressive Flux
- Soldering iron (best are those that you can set the temperature with iron holder and sponge)
- Relative small tip (go buy a small tip online or in store)
- Desoldering bread or Desoldering pump
- Relative thin solderwire (not those thick ones)
- Descent wire to use
- Isolation tape
- Don't inhale the smoke that comes free when using flux, it's toxic


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## Niels Van Son (May 9, 2017)

DjoeN said:


> Lol, must be some heavy dudty wires you solder if it's that size
> 
> The most important thing when soldering -> good equipment and enviroment:
> - Place to have your pcb steady and locked
> ...



Thank you for the tips


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## DjoeN (May 9, 2017)

Forgot one thing 

When done, clean of the flux, some or not conductive, some are, but it's always the safest to clean it off


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## SmileCitrus (May 9, 2017)

It sounds like this unit has a bad CPU. Before spending too much time doing mods on it, get a known good working game just to rule out the possibility that your Super Mario World cartridge is bad. Some cheap sports game would do the trick. 9 times out of 10 if you just get a black screen or garbage video on an SNES, the CPU has failed. Sure, corrosion and broken traces do cause issues, but this board looks pretty clean from your photo and doesn't look like it's had much exposure to moisture.


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## Jack Daniels (May 11, 2017)

just checked your motherboard online, it's known to have failing capacitors when checked online...


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## Niels Van Son (May 11, 2017)

Jack Daniels said:


> just checked your motherboard online, it's known to have failing capacitors when checked online...



What capacitors ? Also, tried contact cleaner method, didn't work


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## Jack Daniels (May 11, 2017)

specially C59 but the thru-hole versions are known for not lasting a long life in this motherboard. wierd to see first model snes for france is different then the one i thought was the only pal model there is.


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## Niels Van Son (May 11, 2017)

Jack Daniels said:


> specially C59 but the thru-hole versions are known for not lasting a long life in this motherboard. wierd to see first model snes for france is different then the one i thought was the only pal model there is.



Oh yeah the famous C59 one, appears to be fine on my motherboard though.


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## Jack Daniels (May 13, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Oh yeah the famous C59 one, appears to be fine on my motherboard though.


okay... you should check other games...


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## Niels Van Son (May 13, 2017)

Jack Daniels said:


> okay... you should check other games...



yup.


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## Niels Van Son (Aug 9, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> yup.


Okay, so I've got another game to test out. Turns out it boots up ! BUT (Nobody likes this word heh) it boots up to graphical glitches (pixels all over the place) and after a few seconds it switches to a bunch of whites lines near the middle of the screen and the controller doesn't work at all in that place. I'm starting to give up, I've put way too much effort into this console but yeah, it might be better for my mental health to buy another one.

Still, if anyone has potential solutions, I take them, we get nothing if we don't try.


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## Niels Van Son (Aug 9, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Okay, so I've got another game to test out. Turns out it boots up ! BUT (Nobody likes this word heh) it boots up to graphical glitches (pixels all over the place) and after a few seconds it switches to a bunch of whites lines near the middle of the screen and the controller doesn't work at all in that place. I'm starting to give up, I've put way too much effort into this console but yeah, it might be better for my mental health to buy another one.
> 
> Still, if anyone has potential solutions, I take them, we get nothing if we don't try.



Video that goes with that :


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## Jack Daniels (Aug 10, 2017)

Niels Van Son said:


> Video that goes with that :



tune the crystal again (there's a component next to it to fine tune it)
clean your cardridge slot contacts (by removing and inserting games that are cleaned over and over again)...
maybe you'll need to replace the cardridge slot...
could be your crystal is damaged...
got mine working today, pal snes with rf out and multi out... though the games need cleaning, it is working! the large capacitor 2200uf 25v and the diode bridge were damaged in my case, and i stil need to blug the games about 5 times in and out before it works.


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