# What is the difference between abortion and murder?



## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

I don't understand why abortion is legal. Abortion is the murder of a baby, isn't it? How is this legal?


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> I don't understand why abortion is legal. Abortion is the murder of a baby, isn't it? How is this legal?



murder is a legal definition. it is why we have different types and degrees. we have 0 laws that state that abortion is murder, and laws that do so are in violation of previous supreme court precedence. in short, there is no legal definition that abortion is murder, therefor it is legal.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> murder is a legal definition. it is why we have different types and degrees. we have 0 laws that state that abortion is murder, and laws that do so are in violation of previous supreme court precedence. in short, there is no legal definition that abortion is murder, therefor it is legal.


I don't care about legal definitions. I care about REAL definitions. Murder is ending a life with malicious intent. Abortion is ending a baby's life, which is obviously malicious. Therefore, abortion is murder.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

snip to message glitch


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> about what? the question you asked? you asked why it is legal; it is because no laws exist.


You responded to a glitched message; please try again. Laws DO exist stating that murder is illegal, and since abortion is murder, abortion should also be illegal.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> I don't care about legal definitions. I care about REAL definitions. Murder is ending a life with malicious intent. Abortion is ending a baby's life, which is obviously malicious. Therefore, abortion is murder.



you asked why it is legal; it is because no laws exist. no laws on abortion exist because of the bill of rights. the 14th amendment protects one's right to medical privacy. procedures done on a persons body are in their zone of privacy, and it is illegal to publicize or make known what one has done in a medical procedure. you are ASKING "why is something legal" and then dismissing a fact because you don't care about legality. you are probably trying to ask "why do people accept it?". that is a messier conversation. people accept abortion because it is hard to call a ball of cells a human. it is also accepted because people care about the rights of citizens and wouldn't ever want to reduce the rights apportioned to us. I don't think it should be legal to own guns, but i don't run around and try to ban them. If we ban abortions, people who want them will get them anyways. just like banning guns, criminals don't care what "legal" is, so they would get the gun/abortion illegally anyways.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> you asked why it is legal; it is because no laws exist. no laws on abortion exist because of the bill of rights. the 14th amendment protects one's right to medical privacy. procedures done on a persons body are in their zone of privacy, and it is illegal to publicize or make known what one has done in a medical procedure. you are ASKING "why is something legal" and then dismissing a fact because you don't care about legality. you are probably trying to ask "why do people accept it?". that is a messier conversation. people accept abortion because it is hard to call a ball of cells a human. it is also accepted because people care about the rights of citizens and wouldn't ever want to reduce the rights apportioned to us. I don't think it should be legal to own guns, but i don't run around and try to ban them. If we ban abortions, people who want them will get them anyways. just like banning guns, criminals don't care what "legal" is, so they would get the gun/abortion illegally anyways.


So if the right to privacy gives you the right to murder, does that mean that I am legally entitled to kill you if I do it privately?


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> So if the right to privacy gives you the right to murder, does that mean that I am legally entitled to kill you if I do it privately?



does the murder take place in your body? does the body of the person you're mudering fit in your body at the time of murder? no? then it's illegal.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> you asked why it is legal; it is because no laws exist. no laws on abortion exist because of the bill of rights. the 14th amendment protects one's right to medical privacy. procedures done on a persons body are in their zone of privacy, and it is illegal to publicize or make known what one has done in a medical procedure. you are ASKING "why is something legal" and then dismissing a fact because you don't care about legality. you are probably trying to ask "why do people accept it?". that is a messier conversation. people accept abortion because it is hard to call a ball of cells a human. it is also accepted because people care about the rights of citizens and wouldn't ever want to reduce the rights apportioned to us. I don't think it should be legal to own guns, but i don't run around and try to ban them. If we ban abortions, people who want them will get them anyways. just like banning guns, criminals don't care what "legal" is, so they would get the gun/abortion illegally anyways.


Also, your argument about it being hard to call a ball of cells human is invalid because in some states, abortions can be done even when the baby is 8 months old. If you've ever seen a picture of a 8-month-old baby, then you would know that it clearly is not a ball of cells.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Also, your argument about it being hard to call a ball of cells human is invalid because in some states, abortions can be done even when the baby is 8 months old. If you've ever seen a picture of a 8-month-old baby, then you would know that it clearly is not a ball of cells.



what percentage of people get an 8 month abortion? what are some reasons that a person would get an abortion at 8-months? look with open eyes and you might find interesting information.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> does the murder take place in your body? does the body of the person you're mudering fit in your body at the time of murder? no? then it's illegal.


Why should it matter where the murder takes place? It's still a murder, even if it is inside your body. And where do the baby's rights come into this? Isn't a baby's right to LIFE more important than a woman's right to "privacy"?

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I'm not talking about how many people do it, I'm saying that it's legal and that it shouldn't be.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Why should it matter where the murder takes place? It's still a murder, even if it is inside your body. And where do the baby's rights come into this? Isn't a baby's right to LIFE more important than a woman's right to "privacy"?



you'll find that maybe less than 10 cases a year are aborted at 8 months for non-medical reasons. more innocent people get killed by police on a monthly basis than that. maybe your moral outrage would be better aimed at more sever societal problems.

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dwain12435 said:


> Why should it matter where the murder takes place? It's still a murder, even if it is inside your body. And where do the baby's rights come into this? Isn't a baby's right to LIFE more important than a woman's right to "privacy"?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> I'm not talking about how many people do it, I'm saying that it's legal and that it shouldn't be.



hey, i'm all for truncating the bill of rights if you want to, i'll trade you 14th for 2nd.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> you'll find that maybe less than 10 cases a year are aborted at 8 months for non-medical reasons. more innocent people get killed by police on a monthly basis than that. maybe your moral outrage would be better aimed at more sever societal problems.


I'd say that nearly one million deaths by abortion every year for the past five years is a pretty severe societal problem.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> I'd say that nearly one million deaths by abortion every year for the past five years is a pretty severe societal problem.



doesn't seem like one to me, seems like a good thing with shitty unemployment, horrible child care, and a severe housing crisis. the abortion means the child gets saved from a shitty life.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> what percentage of people get an 8 month abortion? what are some reasons that a person would get an abortion at 8-months? look with open eyes and you might find interesting information.


Abortion is still murder, even if it is done one month in. You could use the same logic to say that you can kill a baby that is already born, because it is small and simple compared to a human adult.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Abortion is still murder, even if it is done one month in. You could use the same logic to say that you can kill a baby that is already born, because it is small and simple compared to a human adult.



constitutional rights apply after birth, generally when a birth certificate is tendered along with a social security number. fun fact, a death certificate also nulls a bunch of your constitutional rights.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> doesn't seem like one to me, seems like a good thing with shitty unemployment, horrible child care, and a severe housing crisis. the abortion means the child gets saved from a shitty life.


If a "shitty life" is something you need to be "saved from" (by murder), then you might as well kill every low-class person! That is a terrible and evil argument!

— Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! Abortion is murder. — 




omgcat said:


> constitutional rights apply after birth, generally when a birth certificate is tendered along with a social security number.


Stop using stuff about constitutional rights and legally being alive to try to argue against my point! The entire point of this is that the laws are wrong!


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## Jayro (Sep 13, 2020)

Abortion is a life-saving medical operation for the mother. Murder is killing with malicious intent. Women have 100% the right to have control over their own bodies, as they should. Even if it means removing a parasite that they didn't ask for.


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## bobovieri (Sep 13, 2020)

I feel for you, trying to make sense with this fanatic bigot...
He will accept no reason, he will listen to no logic other than "abortion is murder". I wish his mom thought differently...


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> constitutional rights apply after birth, generally when a birth certificate is tendered along with a social security number. fun fact, a death certificate also nulls a bunch of your constitutional rights.


Anyway, the constitutional right to privacy doesn't say that you can commit murder as long as it is within your privacy.

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bobovieri said:


> I feel for you, trying to make sense with this fanatic bigot...
> He will accept no reason, he will listen to no logic other than "abortion is murder". I wish his mom thought differently...


I'm not a bigot for being against murder! That is ridiculous!


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

Abortion is literally eviction, not murder. The woman says "you are not allowed in my body" and the baby is removed. If the baby dies in the process its to bad. No one gets arrested for murder when someone they evict dies. If the fetus cannot live outside the body, sucks to suck. Just like if I evict someone and they die because they couldn't find another house, it's on them, not me.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Abortion is a life-saving medical operation for the mother. Murder is killing with malicious intent. Women have 100% the right to have control over their own bodies, as they should. Even if it means removing a parasite that they didn't ask for.


Number One: Babies aren't parasites.
Number Two: Why does the woman have rights, but not the baby?
Number Three: Abortion is not life-saving! Where does that retarded notion come from? Abortion is life-ending!


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## DiscostewSM (Sep 13, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Abortion is a life-saving medical operation for the mother. Murder is killing with malicious intent. Women have 100% the right to have control over their own bodies, as they should. Even if it means removing a parasite that they didn't ask for.


Women should have 100% the right to control their bodies. They should also pay 100% of the cost to get that life-saving medical operation for being stupid with that control rather than have taxpayers pay for it.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Abortion is literally eviction, not murder. The woman says "you are not allowed in my body" and the baby is removed. If the baby dies in the process its to bad. No one gets arrested for murder when someone they evict dies.


That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard! You make it sound as if the baby is a uninvited thief inside the woman's body! The baby was conceived inside of the woman because of her own choice to have sex! The baby is helpless and did not deliberately enter the woman's body. Why should the woman have the right to kick out her own baby, especially when it almost always kills the baby?


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

Abortion is also a money saving cost, as it saves our country hundreds of thousands of dollars on feeding, teaching, clothing, and protecting an unwanted child.

Also almost all late term abortion are for the protection of the mother. There are hundreds of medical problems that could lead to still birth or lethal birth situations. Hell I bet most people here can't even name the parts of a woman's reproductive system, let alone seen them with their own eyes.

You also are assuming that rape doesn't happen, which is laughable.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

DiscostewSM said:


> Women should have 100% the right to control their bodies. They should also pay 100% of the cost to get that life-saving medical operation for being stupid with that control rather than have taxpayers pay for it.


The baby's body is NOT the woman's body! How does the woman's right to control her own body give her the right to murder a baby's body, which is not her body? Oh, and HOW IS ABORTION A LIFE-SAVING OPERATION?!?


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## jurassicplayer (Sep 13, 2020)

Let me put this into perspective. A fertilized embryo happens to be a functioning cell with a full set of genetic material. Also, it just so happens that every single bacteria you have ever encountered or haven't encountered in life also is a functioning cell with more-or-less at least a workable set of genetic material. Please stop taking showers or washing your hands. You are murdering billions of bacteria for your own self-benefit, you horrendous monster.

Or are you going to play biased and say that it's perfectly fine to kill bacteria, but not other similar cells.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> The baby's body is NOT the woman's body! How does the woman's right to control her own body give her the right to murder a baby's body, which is not her body? Oh, and HOW IS ABORTION A LIFE-SAVING OPERATION?!?



Ectopic pregnancy? Uncontrolled seizure disorder? Eclampsia? Do you have no medical knowledge at all? Like even look at a simple google search?

I am saddened for your hypothetical wife who would die because you would be against a life saving procedure.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

jurassicplayer said:


> Let me put this into perspective. A fertilized embryo happens to be a functioning cell with a full set of genetic material. Also, it just so happens that every single bacteria you have ever encountered or haven't encountered in life also is a functioning cell with more-or-less at least a workable set of genetic material. Please stop taking showers or washing your hands. You are murdering billions of bacteria for your own self-benefit, you horrendous monster.


A bacteria is far simpler than a baby, and it doesn't have anywhere near the mental capacity of a human baby, as you would know if you had graduated elementary school.


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## DownSyndrome (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm sorry just want to share an opinion.
I think 'abortion' matters are purely subjective, it really depends on the person emotionally, financially, etc.
It really depends, what kind of LIFE can you give to the 'baby' when it comes out? To others they can't, and sometimes you need to respect that to others.
Sometimes pregnancies are just unexpected, and I'm not going to call someone a 'murderer' because of that.
To others they may not feel anything about aborting the baby, but to others it may also be very hard,
Sometimes we don't know what is the line between 'wrong' or  'right' anymore, and I also respect that you think it is wrong, and you're not wrong about it, morally. The thing is life is complicated, and not all people have the privilege, or maybe not as emotionally or financially strong about it, and we have to respect that.
You may keep your reasons for yourself and it's fine, but like I said there are some very hard circumstances where sometimes it is the 'best' thing to do, and you have to respect that

well this is a personal/emotional opinion, because the other guy gives you legal reasons but you're still going for it.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Ectopic pregnancy? Uncontrolled seizure disorder? Eclampsia? Do you have no medical knowledge at all? Like even look at a simple google search?
> 
> I am saddened for your hypothetical wife who would die because you would be against a life saving procedure.


Ummm... The extreme majority of abortions have nothing to do with any of these things. Most of them are females who fucked it out with a bunch of random penisheads and got pregnant, but didn't want to raise a baby.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

DownSyndrome said:


> I'm sorry just want to share an opinion.
> I think 'abortion' matters are purely subjective, it really depends on the person emotionally, financially, etc.
> It really depends, what kind of LIFE can you give to the 'baby' when it comes out? To others they can't, and sometimes you need to respect that to others.
> Sometimes pregnancies are just unexpected, and I'm not going to call someone a 'murderer' because of that.
> ...



I'm giving legal reasons, because moral reasons do not matter, everyone's morals exist in different shades of grey. He specifically asked legal in the thread header and original post. Moving the goal post is shitty.

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dwain12435 said:


> Ummm... The extreme majority of abortions have nothing to do with any of these things. Most of them are females who fucked it out with a bunch of random penisheads and got pregnant, but didn't want to raise a baby.



Based on what stats, so far neither science or fact have been on your side.


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## jurassicplayer (Sep 13, 2020)

You are talking about the mental capacity of something that doesn't have developed pain receptors, no cognizant thought, and falls under "living" because it requires sustenance, produces waste, and reproduces it's cells in some form. Don't tell me some shit about bacteria not being complex, that's called being biased just because a lifeform seems "simple" to you.

Either live under a banner of "All Life Matters" or don't. Don't be half-assed.


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## EmanueleBGN (Sep 13, 2020)

No difference


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Abortion is also a money saving cost, as it saves our country hundreds of thousands of dollars on feeding, teaching, clothing, and protecting an unwanted child.
> 
> Also almost all late term abortion are for the protection of the mother. There are hundreds of medical problems that could lead to still birth or lethal birth situations. Hell I bet most people here can't even name the parts of a woman's reproductive system, let alone seen them with their own eyes.
> 
> You also are assuming that rape doesn't happen, which is laughable.


"Almost all late term abortions are..." WTF? Almost all abortions are NOT late-term! This is mostly irrelevant! And even if the baby is a rape product, it is still a human being who should have just as much of a right to life as anyone here.

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omgcat said:


> I'm giving legal reasons, because moral reasons do not matter, everyone's morals exist in different shades of grey. He specifically asked legal in the thread header and original post. Moving the goal post is shitty.
> 
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> 
> ...


Ummm... Google it, as you have told me to do several times on this thread.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> "Almost all late term abortions are..." WTF? Almost all abortions are NOT late-term! This is mostly irrelevant! And even if the baby is a rape product, it is still a human being who should have just as much of a right to life as anyone here.



So capital punishment should be illegal, as we are murdering people. Surely you have consistent views when it comes to people not getting murdered.


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## RandomUser (Sep 13, 2020)

It is legal in all 50 states, however some states do have a window and when that window closes, then it becomes illegal. However that window can be shattered in case if a mother life depends on abortion at any stage of development.



Jayro said:


> Abortion is a life-saving medical operation for the mother. Murder is killing with malicious intent. Women have 100% the right to have control over their own bodies, as they should.


To be fair point out that male born babies do not even have that right. Also probably don't have the right as a child either in some instances.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

jurassicplayer said:


> You are talking about the mental capacity of something that doesn't have developed pain receptors, no cognizant thought, and falls under "living" because it requires sustenance, produces waste, and reproduces it's cells in some form. Don't tell me some shit about bacteria not being complex, that's called being biased just because a lifeform seems "simple" to you.
> 
> Either live under a banner of "All Life Matters" or don't. Don't be half-assed.


A baby has the form of a human and a beating heart and organs have started to form within 2 months of conception... And it's not biased to say that bacteria are relatively simple, since this is a true and obvious fact.


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## JaapDaniels (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Number One: Babies aren't parasites.
> Number Two: Why does the woman have rights, but not the baby?
> Number Three: Abortion is not life-saving! Where does that retarded notion come from? Abortion is life-ending!


a vessel that uses another being's blood to live is a parasite, so is an unborn shild as long as it uses the blood of the mother a parasite.
the baby doesn't have rights since it has not developed a self functioning brain.
more than some mothers have blood medication like cocaine running in there blood, this on it's own is life threttening, butr giviing birth will tripple the possebility to die. since i baby still needs his mother for the days to come...
mother comes first, she has the reasons you don't know... maybe she's got pregnant by rape, still you selfrightious say she should give up her rights and life for some criminals actions?
you don't know what goes before this abortion.
either your a freak in religion, while christians used to be pro abortion, catholics are the ones that brought the rights to discussion for the mother, they said what we can't see can't be alive. now a day they flip the coin since they see the photo's of unborn children. 
still it's against christian religion to call an child without his own blood supply living. the bible says living starts and stops with blood.
the only other reason i could think of you could wanna discus this topic over and over is you never seen suffering in your life.
it's better sometimes to cancell a struggle like some people are in. being poor like we see isn't the struggle some people have. we still have smartphone or PC, we have at least a meal a day and drinking water isn't a problem for most here.
but there are more people than you think that can't provide this level of selfcare.

by the way, humans are already the reason of extinction of a lot of animals, we're so over populated around the globe that we're starting to be a threat to our own kind.
please stop the madnes against what you can't save, start dealing with what you can save. adopt a child,help out your neighborhood.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> So capital punishment should be illegal, as we are murdering people. Surely you have consistent views when it comes to people not getting murdered.


Murder is killing with malicious intent. Capital Punishment is killing for the safety of other people.

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JaapDaniels said:


> a vessel that uses another being's blood to live is a parasite, so is an unborn shild as long as it uses the blood of the mother a parasite.
> the baby doesn't have rights since it has not developed a self functioning brain.
> more than some mothers have blood medication like cocaine running in there blood, this on it's own is life threttening, butr giviing birth will tripple the possebility to die. since i baby still needs his mother for the days to come...
> mother comes first, she has the reasons you don't know... maybe she's got pregnant by rape, still you selfrightious say she should give up her rights and life for some criminals actions?
> ...


You clearly haven't developed a functioning brain, since you think abortion should be legal. Does that mean that you shouldn't have any rights?

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I wish people would stop bringing up stuff about humans overpopulating the earth... You might as well let the Chinese government control the world.


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2020)

When you get technical about it, you're ending a life either way, sure.  But unless you're religious and/or put a lot of stock in the idea of the soul, there is a significant difference between ending a life that has been places, seen things, made memories, and has full intention of being here tomorrow vs, ending the life of something that has no awareness or recognition of anything.  If abortion upsets you strictly on the level that you've killed something, then to that same respect I hope you also get upset anytime a bug is squished, because at that point, there really is little difference.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

JaapDaniels said:


> still it's against christian religion to call an child without his own blood supply living. the bible says living starts and stops with blood.


The Bible also says that all human beings were created in the image of God in the womb, which means _before they were born._

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MikaDubbz said:


> When you get technical about it, you're ending a life either way, sure.  But unless you're religious and/or put a lot of stock in the idea of the soul, there is a significant difference between ending a life that has been places, seen things, made memories, and has full intention of being here tomorrow vs, ending the life of something that has no awareness or recognition of anything.  If abortion upsets you strictly on the level that you've killed something, then to that same respect I hope you also get upset anytime a bug is squished, because at that point, there really is little difference.


Little difference between a human and a bug? Really? A bug will buzz around dumbly all its short life and die within weeks, but a human fetus can grow into a human being that can enjoy life and live a long time. Why should a woman be able to take that away from her fetus?


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## notimp (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Number One: Babies aren't parasites.
> Number Two: Why does the woman have rights, but not the baby?
> Number Three: Abortion is not life-saving! Where does that retarded notion come from? Abortion is life-ending!


Waeeh me not informed, but be emotion! Babies! Killing! Must.. protest on ... online... webforum.

When does a human become a human with unalienable human rights?

Sometime in the mothers womb.

When exactly? At conception? Nope, because there it is a clump of cells - that couldnt be called human yet.
When they got sensory capability? To some extent yes, but as they dont develop all at once - its not clear cut.

So how to approach this?
Humans in stories I know from the middle east are not only known to go to quacks that perform 'in living room operations' just so the don't have to birth a baby, they socially or psychologically dont want to. Many of them die. Women are known to put heavy rocks on their womb in other parts of the world, until they have a miscarriage, just so they dont have to birth a baby they socially or psychologically dont want to.

Bigger issue - its part of their body, and as a state you cant easily regulate peoples actionability over their bodies. Not with force. In most of western legal tradition.

Which brings us back to - but you do it, if you have to saveguard the interests of other human life. Which brings us back to - when does a fetus get inalienable human rights.

Which brings us back to - its not at conception.

How are abortions also saving lives? If a fertilized egg hasnt left the fallopian tube, is starting to develop there, eventually causing in body bleeding and killing the women and the child, f.e.

But also psychological distress, causing extreme harm to both the mother and the child, if f.e. there is absolute rejection of the idea of wanting to identify and care for the child. You are basically ruining two lives at that point, with the counterpoint being, but at least there is one more person - alive, that gets a chance, and positively 'good' people could be caring about the child - you know like MEEEEEEEEE, at which point, the argument gets really creepy, but then - hey you'd save a life argument remains. Not in all cases, btw. because women in severe psychological distress also are known to not always give away their newborns to the stranger of your liking.

But still - you have a point. So we regulate into womens bodies and declare a fetus to become a child, even before they are born, and make abortion illegal in the third trimester.

All questions answered?

But child, and killing, and emotion and --- someone needs to post their outrage on the internets, quickly!

Get likeminded folks, start public protests, realize - that you are not in the majority (wanting to create more births, where the children are hated by their mothers, when they arrive), then read this text again.

To minimize those accurances, in the olden days, the church itself had to come up with a solution, btw. And it was chastity. As a virtue. So basically - behavior modification. As a result, women and men werent 'equal' at all. But hey - babies saved!
--

Now watch all of this getting ignored.


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Little difference between a human and a bug? Really? A bug will buzz around dumbly all its short life and die within weeks, but a human fetus can grow into a human being that can enjoy life and live a long time. Why should a woman be able to take that away from her fetus?


Yes, at that point, absolutely, at least before we factor in religious beliefs.  That early in the fetus' life there is absolutely room to make the argument that even a bug has more awareness about itself.  Yes, the fetus has the potential to be so much more than a bug, obviously, but at that point, it isn't, it simply isn't.


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## JaapDaniels (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Murder is killing with malicious intent. Capital Punishment is killing for the safety of other people.
> 
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> 
> ...


how old are you, and what is it to you?
this is going nowhere, my brain works fine, but no blood circulation means no life, no brain means no decissions can be made, a mother should always been put first, if a mother is not isn't in anyway gonna be a mother, what is it you call life?
if a mothrer can't proved for herself you wanna have a living baby to only starve lateron with his mother?
a mother can know that a baby doesn't have any chance in life.
you like to think different, but this world isn't a endless beautifull place, some of us have pain, some of us are sick even before they're born, some were forced in life to do things they can't cope with.
(and i'm not talking about my life, but i've seen things i hope you'll never gonna have to see).
a mother should always have the right stop suffering inside her body.
not all suffering is visible, still only the mother should have the right.
i don't think it should be easy to go for abortion, i think a few psychic sessions should go before this option comes to mind.

being nice and understanding to your neighbors, talking with them instead of about them brings you and thier unborn child way further in life.
help a needing person maybe that saves an unborn child, help police (only when it's the right thing to do) to get the streets around you to be safe, and you might've saved a few unborn children.

i live life, and children as much as most people, i'm against playing for god as you see fit.

the right to abortion didn't come over one night talk... and beleve me, most woman who did abortion are struggling every day for what they did is hard.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yes, at that point, absolutely, at least before we factor in religious beliefs.  That early in the fetus' life there is absolutely room to make the argument that even a bug has more awareness about itself.  Yes, the fetus has the potential to be so much more than a bug, obviously, but at that point, it isn't, it simply isn't.


Yes! Precisely! "at that point, it simply isn't"! But it's going to be! So don't kill it!


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## DiscostewSM (Sep 13, 2020)

omgcat said:


> Abortion is also a money saving cost, as it saves our country hundreds of thousands of dollars on feeding, teaching, clothing, and protecting an unwanted child.


But it is more expensive than being smart by taking necessary precautions to prevent conception, which includes simply not doing what leads to pregnancy. Irresponsibility shouldn't be an excuse to get an abortion with taxpayers money.


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Yes! Precisely! "at that point, it simply isn't"! But it's going to be! So don't kill it!



You can argue that all you like.  But at that point, again it is no more than a bug.  So if you're upset that something with less awareness than a bug has died, then good on you, I can't say that particularly upsets me though. But hey, if you're religious and that kind of thing does upset you, I can understand it from that perspective.  But to try and say that ending the life of a fetus that has less awareness than an insect is no different than killing a person who has lived, seen things, made memories, etc. etc. just doesn't equate to me in terms of morality, unless again I was a big proponent for the idea for the idea of the soul.


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## Deleted User (Sep 13, 2020)

JaapDaniels said:


> and beleve me, most woman who did abortion are struggling every day for what they did is hard.


Yes. The women regret it. They regret killing their children. Because abortion is murder. Why would anyone regret this if all it was was killing a few non-human cells that are equal to bacteria? They wouldn't. They regret their babies' murders.

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DiscostewSM said:


> But it is more expensive than being smart by taking necessary precautions to prevent conception, which includes simply not doing what leads to pregnancy. Irresponsibility shouldn't be an excuse to get an abortion with taxpayers money.


Yes! If people just wouldn't fuck all the time with no desire for children, then abortion wouldn't even be a thing!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Hey Mods, please close this thread, as it is getting nowhere because it is full of murder-supporting stubborn brickheads.


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## notimp (Sep 13, 2020)

DiscostewSM said:


> But it is more expensive than being smart by taking necessary precautions to prevent conception, which includes simply not doing what leads to pregnancy. Irresponsibility shouldn't be an excuse to get an abortion with taxpayers money.


Yeah, link those two together, why dont you..

On the first part correct. Contraception is more cost effective, and no operation, therefore its easier, therefore more people engage in it.

So far so dropdead easy.

- Contraception fails sometime, or with all things human behavior based on a psychological drive, they fail sometimes - at which point you need a contingency - or you are guilt tripping people into not to use contraception "in case something goes wrong".


Which is exactly what you dont want from a societal perspective (reduction of birth rate world wide is not only wanted, but needed, productivity of your societies would be halved with bright women not being in the workforce).

There is simply no avenue left to 'go back on this'.

You would have society fail, at this point - just to save more (not yet) babies.

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dwain12435 said:


> Yes! If people just wouldn't fuck all the time with no desire for children, then abortion wouldn't even be a thing!


This is an important point - despite being one from the 17th century - logic wise, this really would be needed if you take away contraception and abortions.

Which by default means, men are more powerful again, which at the core, might as well be the main motivation of the author of this message.

If you get none at the moment, dont go messing up society at large in return. You can do it.


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## JaapDaniels (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Yes. The women regret it. They regret killing their children. Because abortion is murder. Why would anyone regret this if all it was was killing a few non-human cells that are equal to bacteria? They wouldn't. They regret their babies' murders.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


no, they don't regret, most of them don't maybe some.
they experience emotions for they the brain is already moving towards a future, so just like when a parent dies they'll experience moments they nevergonna have with this possible child, and that will be there.
some dreams how beautifull they might be are not real, and you know that, still in a dream it makes sence, but you know that in your reallity it's a nightmare.
not having the chance of abortion is in no way warant to a life, here closeby a mother strengled her just born baby the minute it was born.
i wished she didn't, we all did, that was a case where i say it would've been better she got abortion done in the early stage.
this baby breathed a few times, this baby even made noise.

i don't understand some mothers choices, but still it's better they make them.


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## omgcat (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Yes. The women regret it. They regret killing their children. Because abortion is murder. Why would anyone regret this if all it was was killing a few non-human cells that are equal to bacteria? They wouldn't. They regret their babies' murders.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Asking for a thread to be closed because you didn't get your way and are arguing in bad faith is childish. But I agree, the original question was answered, and all further conversation is about morals, not legality like the original post asked. I'd like to save the thread from 20+ pages of incel whining.


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2020)

dwain12435 said:


> Hey Mods, please close this thread, as it is getting nowhere because it is full of murder-supporting stubborn brickheads.



You started this topic under the guise of a debate.  After overwhelming arguments against your stance, now you want the thread shut down?  Seem to me that you didn't really want a debate, you just wanted to have others support you in your views and/or to wave a sense of superiority over those that don't agree with you.


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## VinsCool (Sep 13, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> You started this topic under the guise of a debate.  After overwhelming arguments against your stance, now you want the thread shut down?  Seem to me that you didn't really want a debate, you just wanted to have others support you in your views and/or to wave a sense of superiority over those that don't agree with you.


This is also the conclusion I drew after watching this thread for a little while.

I agree, there is nothing left to discuss now, so it seems like a good time to close it.


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