# Girls Scouts say yes to the BOY who wants to join them



## smile72 (Oct 27, 2011)

> Colorado 7-year-old Bobby Montoya wants what most little girls want: Dolls, My Little Pony figures and to join the Girl Scouts.
> But there’s one problem: Bobby's a boy.
> He said he wants to follow his sister in joining the group, but when a troop leader said it wouldn’t work out, the rejection left him devastated.
> Bobby, who said he’s been bullied for looking and dressing like a girl, told KUSA-TV: 'It's hurting my heart.  It hurts me and my mom both.'
> ...



Source:The Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail...anted-join.html

Opinions????

I'm glad that Bobby got to join, I've known a couple of transgender people and I've seen how some people discriminate against them, it's disgusting. Not sure if he is transgender, but I respect the Girls Scout for the decision they chose to make!


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 27, 2011)

Boy Scouts are dumb anyway. From what I've heard, it's a giant bigoted organization.

I'd join the Girl Scouts if I could get some free cookies. Those cookies are like goddamn crack cocaine.


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## smile72 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah it is pretty bigoted.


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## Thanatos Telos (Oct 27, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Boy Scouts are dumb anyway. From what I've heard, it's a giant bigoted organization.
> 
> I'd join the Girl Scouts if I could get some free cookies. Those cookies are like goddamn crack cocaine.


Yes, the cookies are addicting.


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## Hells Malice (Oct 27, 2011)

Boy Scouts...
You mean that crazy organization where boys get molested all the time by scout leaders?

Yeah i'd be joining girl scouts too. When I hear girl scouts, I hear about cookies, not how someones going to jail for traumatizing half their troop.


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## smile72 (Oct 27, 2011)

Of course, mostly because it's church run though.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 27, 2011)

While I had gone through Boy Scouts (I became an Eagle Scout), that was also many many years ago. Over time, things change, including the kind of kids that join these organizations, the people in charge of them, and what they represent. I'm actually happy that Bobby got to join the Girl Scouts. Even if it feels odd in my mind (please bear with me), I'm sure there are other reasons other than Bobby liking dolls and MLP (Applejack is best pony, dealwithit.jpg). Abuse/teasing from other boys? Not saying that ever happened, but kids can be very unforgiving at young ages, and parents are usually to blame (not directed at Bobby's parents).

All in all, they accepted him, and that good.


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## Midna (Oct 27, 2011)

This is heartening news. The world seems less and less bigoted by the day.

Sometimes it seems the other way around, but one day at a time.


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## KingVamp (Oct 27, 2011)

I think this is the first time you post news that wasn't   provoking.

Anyway, that pretty nice.


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## Clydefrosch (Oct 27, 2011)

oke... its not like i dont respect transgenders and anyone who in some way has a similar lifestyle (theres just too many different variations...) but if a child grows up with an older sister and (thats just how it sounds) only a mother, he will of course look up to his sister and emulate her behavior... thats what my younger brothers did and what i did in respect to my father. its not like male and female behaviour is really deeply rooted in young children. if theres no other influence and the mother stopped giving him both options at some point...

what i'm trying to say is, is a 2 year old thats surrounded by girls really already in a position to "do however he likes"? does he really have a gender identity at this point? does dressing like a girl really mean he felt more like a girl back then? or was he just doing what young children do, imitate his role models? does he have an innate understanding of the fact that boys and girls usually are clothed differently due to their gender identity?

its good that he's accepted and that he can do as he pleases now, even though he will eventually feel the wrath of school bullys for being a girl scout... but i have a slight problem with how things developed between the age of 2 and 7. i wonder if the family didnt eventually push him into this gender identification because they thought it was the right thing to do. i mean... worst case, he will have all the problems of every other transgender with the addition of another gender crisis later when he realizes he feels more like a boy after all, which will then result in blaming the family, alienation from the community he might end up being a poster child for a few years.
of course i hope the best for him, for his sake in general, but i cant help but doubt that two is an accurate age to decide something like this for yourself, cause you have no idea that you actually make a choice about something at all

god, i really hope gender studies and child psychology make huge advancements before i start a family of my own, i'd really hate to mess something like this up by accident...


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## smile72 (Oct 27, 2011)

That's not true KingVamp I've posted a lot of news that wasn't provoking.


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## Narayan (Oct 27, 2011)

we have girls in our boy scouts. and they were presented as girls.


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## Snailface (Oct 27, 2011)

Pretty soon the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will have to be renamed due to litigation. The result:

People Scouts. 

In all seriousness though, both organizations can avoid this controversial issue by merging into one entity and categorizing different scouts by gender rather than separating them.


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## DiscostewSM (Oct 27, 2011)

Snailface said:


> Pretty soon the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will have to be renamed due to litigation. The result:
> 
> People Scouts.
> 
> In all seriousness though, both organizations can avoid this controversial issue by merging into one entity and categorizing different scouts by gender rather than separating them.



I vote for United Scouts.......United Scouts of America?


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## Xuphor (Oct 27, 2011)

Snailface said:


> Pretty soon the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will have to be renamed due to litigation. The result:
> 
> People Scouts.
> 
> In all seriousness though, both organizations can avoid this controversial issue by merging into one entity and categorizing different scouts by gender rather than separating them.



You're prbably right actually, but it'd be called "Kid Scouts", "Junior Scouts", "Cub Scouts", or something to that extent though, else they'd have to accept adults


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## nando (Oct 27, 2011)

that's a big step above the boy scouts who discriminate against kids with gay parents, or non christians.


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## koimayeul (Oct 27, 2011)

smile72 said:


> That's not true KingVamp I've posted a lot of news that wasn't provoking.


Let's face it, about 3/4 of the topics you start are provoking. It's cool and rewarding to discuss some opinions over matters, but especially when it is started in the right frame of mind. In your case they point in the red your taste and hunger for controversial stuff, i am sorry to say.
Starting those directly in off topic part of the forum when you post those would spare mods some extra work BTW.

On topic, i rejoin totally Clydefrosh opinion on this one, We are human people with definite genders for a reason. Messing with those is dangerous to say the least. Nice for the young lad he is accepted by this Girls Scout community for now, but it is really concerning for the well being of his identity growth, the most at his young age. His mother is doing it really wrong not raising him as a boy and where in the world is the father. The kid should be able to decide for himself when he be of age to deal with something as serious as a sex change or just his sexual orientation. From the text he is obvioulsy conditionned to act effeminate emulating his female role models which is.. WRONG. Ever heard "too much freedom kills freedom" ? Silly parent(s) playing with their kids like.. Girl's dolls. :/


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## WolfSpider (Oct 27, 2011)

I think that this could be a little awkward for the girls.


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## Crimson Ghoul (Oct 27, 2011)

I still don't see why people care so much about gender and sexuality. We are all just animals. and +1 on United Scouts of America. One organization is enough and with more women, maybe the boys stop getting touched. One's freedoms end where another's freedom begins.


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## koimayeul (Oct 27, 2011)

Crimson Ghoul said:


> I still don't see why people care so much about gender and sexuality. *We are all just animals*. and +1 on United Scouts of America. One organization is enough and with more women, maybe the boys stop getting touched. One's freedoms end where another's freedom begins.



Agree with all but bolded, how wrong are you and how so, so much more are we my fellow temper. Let's start not putting any clothes and eating raw meat with our bare hands. First class flesh hunted by our own skills decimating the clan next door/cavern. Ohh so sexy our glorious bodies covered with crusts of our own poo and pee from last night snooze.. Just like animals would do.


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## Crimson Ghoul (Oct 27, 2011)

koimayeul said:


> Crimson Ghoul said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't see why people care so much about gender and sexuality. *We are all just animals*. and +1 on United Scouts of America. One organization is enough and with more women, maybe the boys stop getting touched. One's freedoms end where another's freedom begins.
> ...


Do you agree we are products of evolution or do you believe in creationism?
Also, we are much more violent than any other animal on this planet. We may be clothed and educated, but we fight with no mercy and we kill and destroy with no remorse. I'm sorry but that seems animalistic to me


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## Skelletonike (Oct 27, 2011)

In my country there's just scouts, I used to be one of them (before being kicked out) >.<
Both boys and girls can join, I never understood why there's different types of scouts in the US. =S


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## koimayeul (Oct 27, 2011)

Crimson Ghoul said:


> koimayeul said:
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> 
> > Crimson Ghoul said:
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Creationism for my belief. Sky's the limit about how much cruelty can mankind display and that is a given, sadly! Animals only follow instincts of their nature while we do things purposely, and it is precisely that self-consciousness and morale codes making Us much, much more than animals. CIVILIZED, with flexible laws and rights unlike animals.
(It's hell late for me so am off to sleep, now 4 am almost . Bye the Temp! ZzzZz.  )


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## Hells Malice (Oct 27, 2011)

Crimson Ghoul said:


> koimayeul said:
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> 
> > Crimson Ghoul said:
> ...





Spoiler: this debate is WAY off topic, but here's my two cents




Being cruel/sadistic/etc are not traits that define an animal.
Animals don't go out a glutinously kill other animals if there isn't any need. If an animal is hungry, it'll find food. Animals act on instinct and self-preservation. Often, humans act on neither (unless put into a situation of dire need, but even then).
A big thing that sets us apart from animals is that we can live with order and rule. That's essentially one of the biggest ways to forfeit your humanity IMO. If a person cannot live within the law, they forfeit their right to be labeled a human. To different degrees of course. I'm not going to say someone in jail for petty theft is an inhumane beast like the rapist he's sharing a cell with.
We aren't animals, in the technical sense. We are civilized beings, and that is why we are capable of committing atrocities against nature. It is not typical "animal" behavior to actually do this.


^reply




WolfSpider said:


> I think that this could be a little awkward for the girls.



I doubt it. If the boy looks like a girl, acts like a girl, and enjoys things a girl likes...I doubt they'll care too much.
Girls don't care about cooties too much these days.


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## yuyuyup (Oct 27, 2011)

It's good the Girl Scouts accepted the child.  I think every would-be parent better be prepared to be accepting and loving of this behavior because it's natural and has always existed.  However, I also believe it's the responsibility of the parent to make the child very aware that not everyone is understanding and compassionate, thus I would add to the responsibility list that the child should be enrolled in a self defense class.

Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will never unify because "Boy Scouts" is Jesus based and "Girl Scouts" is cookie based.  I'm sure some mod will find this offensive and will absolutely destroy my post, THUS making me look like a jerk who said something bad but OH WELL, that's the scorched earth policy I must abide


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## Midna (Oct 27, 2011)

Crimson Ghoul said:


> koimayeul said:
> 
> 
> > Crimson Ghoul said:
> ...


>You must either believe in creationism or evolution
Enjoy your sad miserable life of absolutes.


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## Advi (Oct 27, 2011)

yuyuyup said:


> It's good the Girl Scouts accepted the child.  I think every would-be parent better be prepared to be accepting and loving of this behavior because it's natural and has always existed.  However, I also believe it's the responsibility of the parent to make the child very aware that not everyone is understanding and compassionate, thus I would add to the responsibility list that the child should be enrolled in a self defense class.
> 
> Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts will never unify because "Boy Scouts" is Jesus based and "Girl Scouts" is cookie based.  I'm sure some mod will find this offensive and will absolutely destroy my post, THUS making me look like a jerk who said something bad but OH WELL, that's the scorched earth policy I must abide


As an ex-member of the Boy Scouts, I see nothing wrong with your post.


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## Nimbus (Oct 27, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Those cookies are like goddamn crack cocaine.



I know, those damn Samosas...cant stop eating them...must always buy them.

Seriously Guild, when will you ever cease being awesome!?


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## Crimson Ghoul (Oct 27, 2011)

Midna said:


> Crimson Ghoul said:
> 
> 
> > koimayeul said:
> ...


I actually believe in Alien intervention lol and I don't mean to bash your views. Some people believe in Creationism. I used to, I just barely got convinced from it.
Also, he does look like a girl. As long as he doesn't go switching sides in the middle of the game the girls should be fine

Also, animals do it out of necessity. We do it out of hatred. Making our violence much much worse.  
Why can't we all just get along


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## junkerde (Oct 27, 2011)

too bad he will never learn how to wrestle a bear, as they teach it in boy scouts.


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## chyyran (Oct 27, 2011)

darkbuster412 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Boy Scouts are dumb anyway. From what I've heard, it's a giant bigoted organization.
> ...



Nah, I don't like their cookies that much, too sweet for me.

Anyways, if a guy wants to join girl scouts, let him be, it's his choice. Not saying I personally approve of a guy joining girl scouts, but I don't oppose it either. I see no reason why he shouldn't, if he wants to.

Either way, I, myself, would never join any type of (Insert Gender Here) Scouts. They seem boring.


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## Midna (Oct 27, 2011)

Crimson Ghoul said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Crimson Ghoul said:
> ...


Haha, no need to respect Christianity around me. Not my thing.

And I reckon you're right about the violence bit.


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## Forstride (Oct 27, 2011)

Midna said:


> Haha, no need to respect Christianity around me. Not my thing.


Yeah, let's tell people not to respect other peoples' beliefs.  Good job!  

Not to mention he didn't even mention Christianity at all.  There's other religions that believe in Creationism.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 27, 2011)

I hate how when someone's sexually is questioned you guys ALWAYS revert to religion. Like WTF?


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## Forstride (Oct 27, 2011)

Hyro-Sama said:


> I hate how when someone's sexually is questioned you guys ALWAYS revert to religion. Like WTF?


Because there's always one person who has to bring it up, even when it's completely unrelated.  Midna took what Crimson Ghoul said out of context, and just...Ugh.  I wish people would stop creating utterly stupid topics like this.  Yeah, people are allowed to post off-topic stuff, but half the shit posted is stupid discriminatory related stuff that just ends up causing a flamewar in the end.

EDIT: Wahey!  2000 posts.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 27, 2011)

TDWP FTW said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > I hate how when someone's sexually is questioned you guys ALWAYS revert to religion. Like WTF?
> ...



Congrats. 

I just hate how we are talking about girl scouts and then some tool starts talking about creationism vs. evolution? SO MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD. STOP HIJACKING THESE THREADS.

Being off-topic is one thing, but trying to incite a flame war is another.


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## Nathan Drake (Oct 27, 2011)

Funny how whenever I start learning about something, bam, that shit shows up everywhere. No matter what, it always happens when I'm truly learning about or immersing myself into something for the first time. I don't even think it's because I wasn't looking for it before. Seriously, weird. Anyways, let's get on topic here before I tangent this into an abyss.

First off, good for the kid. Whether Bobby identifies as a boy or a girl shouldn't matter. I went to a GSA meeting for the GSA at my school the other day (Gay Straight Alliance for those that are unaware). I mostly went to support my buddy because she asked me to be there. There was also going to be a guest speaker there, so I figured I should be extra supportive and such so that her speaker had a bigger audience. I was only one of two guys there, the other also being my buddy's buddy. Just thought I would throw that out there. Anyways, the person discussed what they did, and then brought up how a person may identify themselves. This brought up the Gender Gumby. Now, I don't have the actual picture and don't feel like pulling it up. Instead, here is something I found quickly that explains and shows it a bit more simplistically:



Spoiler



- Assigned Sex: The label the doctors gave you at birth based on your external genitalia.
- Socialization: How you were raised in terms of gender(this accounts for intersex raised on way or another. As well as tomboys,boys allowed to play with dolls, etc.
- Gender Identity: How you feel inside about what your gender is.
- Gendered Body: Refers to hormones, secondary sex characteristics, and genitalia(this allows for transpeople [including intersex people who were operated on as children] to differentiate between their assigned sex at birth and their current physical body)
- Gender Expression: How you express your gender. Clothing styles, hair, mannerisms, etc.
- Perceived gender: How other people perceive you.
- Sexual Orientation: Who you are attracted to


assigned sex:
M..............................A.................. ............F

socialization:
M..............................A.................. ............F

gender identity:
M..............................A.................. ............F

gendered body:
M..............................A.................. ............F

gender expression:
M..............................A.................. ............F

perceived gender:
M..............................A.................. ............F

sexual orientation:
M..............................A.................. ............F

.............................. = 30 dots on each side



I find it impressive that even as young as they are, this child is already working towards creating their own gender identity in full. Pretty neat stuff.


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## Jamstruth (Oct 27, 2011)

Midna said:


> >You must either believe in creationism or evolution
> Enjoy your sad miserable life of absolutes.


This is waayy off topic I know but...those are kind of the only 2 options when it comes to the development of our planet. Either it developed over time through mutations or it was made by some outside force as it is now. I mean you can believe in Evolution AND a God. What's the alternate option to those 2?
ALien Intervention is still evolution as that theory is that we descended from aliens that crashed on this planet, right? All the other creatures evolved.

ANYWAY! ACTUAL TOPIC!
Nice to see a tolerant organisation like this. Too often we only here about the bad things. I would say that I completely understand the Troop Leader's initial decision to decline. She wasn't sure of the Organisation's policy and was afraid of what the other childrens' parents would say to such a thing,

The Universal Scouts idea kind of exists here in the UK. There's the Scouts and the Girl Guides. Anybody can join the Scouts regardless of gender but only girls can join the Girl Guides. Mostly Girls choose the Girl Guides because its more suited to their interests while the Scouts is a lot more outdoors skills etc. that girls aren't so interested in. Point is that we have one organisation that accepts all genders and doesn't have a gender specific name. Never heard of a boy trying to join the Girl Guides here though, would be interesting.
Scouts here is still heavily rooted in religion. We said prayers a lot and I joined in even though I didn't really believe in it or understand what was going on or why we did it (when I was younger in Beavers and Cub Scouts anyway (younger sections of the Scouts here in the UK))


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## SparkFenix (Oct 27, 2011)

Is the scout gender distinction only present in the US?


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## Foxi4 (Oct 27, 2011)

The idea of Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts is quite clearly to have boys in the boy unit and girls in the girl unit. If it's such a huge problem for some peple, just rebrand both organizations to "Scouts" and it fixes the problem. Thing is, the whole point of those organizations was to allow boys perform activities typically conscidered masculine and girls to spend their time doing something with less physical strain involved. Moreover, young girls tend to socialize more with other girls while young boys much prefere the company of other boys. That, and girls naturally will be looking for an older female role model in the group while boys will look up to their male role model.

I believe the U.S is the only country that actually has such a distinction, at least the only one I can think of. I can see the point that was behind it when said organizations were originally established, but I do believe that the 21st century is "about time" to make them unisex.

At the same time, I don't like the fact that the boy was accepted to "Girl" scouts. How will we reffer to him now? A Boy Girl Scout? He'll be out in the open for other children to ridicule him. When said issue arose in the first place, it was the time to co-operate between team leaders of both groups and create a unisex one, not accept the boy into a group thanks to which he'll have to overcome numerous obstacles in life.

Children are cruel, let me tell you that. More cruel then many adults.


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## notmeanymore (Oct 27, 2011)

I feel like I'm the only person on GBAtemp disturbed by this.

1. Boy Scouts were pretty bigoted, but that's the leadership, not the churches. The churches are over the packs, but the District is over them both. All the corruption came from the District.
2. No one was molested in my pack or district. You folks live in messed up parts of the country. Louisiana at least has some morals, in that sense.
3. I would in no way feel comfortable with a boy being in my daughter's Girl Scout group. (Assuming I had a daughter) I wouldn't pull her out, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it.
4. Girls in the Boy Scouts also bothers me, though not to the extent of a boy in Girl Scouts. Now, if I were the parent of said girl, I wouldn't like that simply because my girl would be at all times surrounded by a bunch of boy scouts (and I know how they are, having been one myself lol).

And in comes the hate/rebukes.


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## Oveneise (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah... but its GIRL scouts. I mean... it's great he likes all those things, that's fine, but... he has a penis. Just saying.


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## yusuo (Oct 27, 2011)

TehSkull, I completely agree with you, I've got a daughter and I wouldn't let her join if there were boys there.

I don't know why though, I think its basically because its one of the few activities left that are single sex and being a boy myself I don't trust us as far as I can throw us, even at 7 I was playing doctor with girls and well discovering things. Nothing seedy, not at that age anyway but I would rather keep my daughters innocence as long as I possibly can.

If it was my choice she would die a virgin lol


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## Midna (Oct 27, 2011)

TDWP FTW said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Haha, no need to respect Christianity around me. Not my thing.
> ...


He was acting as if he had accidentally offended me and was posting in a very apologetic manor. Your inferences were not my intentions. I just wanted to clarify that he had not offended me.


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## ProtoKun7 (Oct 27, 2011)

>Boy
>Girl Scouts

...perfect sense, this makes.
(That's assuming joining Scouts makes sense to begin with)


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## _Chaz_ (Oct 28, 2011)

Equal opportunity for males? NOT IN MY COUNTRY YOU DON'T!


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## JoostinOnline (Oct 28, 2011)

This is stupid.  Just because it would make a boy happy to join the girl scouts, that doesn't mean you have to say yes.


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## KingVamp (Oct 28, 2011)

ProtoKun7 said:


> >Boy
> >Girl Scouts
> 
> ...perfect sense, this makes.
> (That's assuming joining Scouts makes sense to begin with)


Well base on how he she had to get in, he she not a boy.
>Girl (in a boy body)
>Girl Scouts
... Check!

Seriously tho, I got nothing a against LGBT, but sometimes it is annoying(?) to figure what to call someone (pronoun wise).

Also apparently the word queer seem to be coming acceptable now. Funny how that works.
There even a queer gender.

I didn't like to call someone that in general. Even if it's a good thing.


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## JoostinOnline (Oct 28, 2011)

You can't be a girl in a boy's body, you are just a boy who acts like a girl.  Besides, the makes no mention of him "being a girl"


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 28, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> ProtoKun7 said:
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> > >Boy
> ...


Except for the fact that enjoying what is generally regarded as_ female toys_ doesn't make you a girl.


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## KingVamp (Oct 28, 2011)

Am I misreading?



> smile72 said:
> 
> 
> > But today, the Girl Scouts of Colorado said it made a mistake when it rejected Bobby’s application to join.The Girl Scouts issued a statement to KUSA saying that a worker unfamiliar with the group's policies gave Bobby’s family wrong information.
> ...


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 28, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> Am I misreading?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, those terms were only brought up to indicate that the 'Girl Scouts' gave the family the wrong information. The article doesn't state that the child identifies himself as a girl.


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## JoostinOnline (Oct 28, 2011)

soulx said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > Am I misreading?
> ...


And the mother says "He" in the interview, not "She".  You know why?  Because Bobby IS A BOY!


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 28, 2011)

Crimson Ghoul said:


> I actually believe in Alien intervention lol.


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## Hells Malice (Oct 28, 2011)

JoostinOnline said:


> You can't be a girl in a boy's body, you are just a boy who acts like a girl.  Besides, the makes no mention of him "being a girl"



Yeah he just apparently acts like a girl, likes girl things, does girl things and apparently even looks like a girl.
Pre-12 there is very little difference between a boy and a girl to make a fuss over.
Kid gets bullied by boys as well.
I'm sure Bobby would have a blast getting the crap beat out of him by the boys in boy scouts.

You have to be a special kind of ignorant to find a problem with him being allowed to join the girl scouts.


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## JoostinOnline (Oct 28, 2011)

Hells Malice said:


> JoostinOnline said:
> 
> 
> > You can't be a girl in a boy's body, you are just a boy who acts like a girl.  Besides, the makes no mention of him "being a girl"
> ...


He doesn't have to join the boy scouts, but he identifies as a boy and his mother identifies him as a boy (albeit one who dresses like a girl), so there isn't any reason for him to force his way into the *GIRL* scouts.


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## DeathStrudel (Oct 28, 2011)

This isn't really news. They let boys in girl scouts, and they let girls in boy scouts, it's been like that for a while. Like most people/organizations, they don't want to get sued. They only reason this made the news is because at first they said no, which they explained was a mistake.

And all the people talking shit about boy scouts obviously know nothing about it beyond what they've heard in the news. I'm both bisexual and an atheist but that didn't stop me from being a boy scout because I didn't make a big deal about it. It's not like I kept it a secret but I didn't go around talking about it all the time either. The only rule against stuff like that is you can't go around telling everybody, it's not like they can kick you out because they think you're gay or they think you're an atheist.



Nimbus said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Those cookies are like goddamn crack cocaine.
> ...


Do you have to suck up to staff every chance you get?

There's no way I'm the only one who notices this.


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## Gahars (Oct 28, 2011)

Did anyone else here see the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode on the Boy Scouts? Their show, though sometimes pretty inaccurate and prone to hyperbole on occasion (it's kind of their thing), but when they hit the mark, they really hit the mark. If not, you should definitely check it out; it's pretty easy to find on youtube. It was a pretty eye opening episode.

As for the news... I'm glad that he will be able to join the club of his choosing. Still, I think people are treating the troop leader who denied him originally too harshly. The confusion over what to do is perfectly understandable, as was his decision.

Not necessarily correct, mind you, just understandable.


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## Aurora Wright (Oct 28, 2011)

ProtoKun7 said:


> >Boy
> >Girl Scouts
> 
> ...perfect sense, this makes.
> (That's assuming joining Scouts makes sense to begin with)


It seems you've some sort of issue with trans-people. Go read my blog, Sheimi's or Mirby's, maybe you'll get a remote idea of what we go through.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 28, 2011)

Davi92 said:


> ProtoKun7 said:
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> > >Boy
> ...



...are you "a bit slow in the head"? It's a 12-year old - it's not a trans-person, it's a child that's being hurt by his parents. He's very much a boy, identifies himself as a boy, he's just bullied by other boys so his retarded parents decided that the best cure would be to put him in a group of *girl* scouts. You know, because he's not ridiculed enough.


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## Hells Malice (Oct 29, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> Davi92 said:
> 
> 
> > ProtoKun7 said:
> ...



Are you a moron or did you just miss the entire article?
Try this, READ THE ARTICLE and THEN comment on it.

I can't believe I need to explain that to someone.

You can argue that his mom ENABLES his behavior, but the article very, very clearly states he does NOT act like a boy.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2011)

He reffers to himself as a boy - he does not have a mentality of a girl, he just likes "girls stuff". That does not make him feminene, that makes him weird. You're mixing two different things - tastes in games, shows and clothing and *psychology*.

A 12-year old has no concept of sexuality yet - he cannot be transgender simply because he does not comperhend the meaning behind it. He is just enabled by his parents to act in an unfitting pattern, which is somewhat hurting the poor lad. The boy simply developed an interest when he was 2 years old and his parents did nothing to explain what's wrong about it to him, thus he grew up to be a bit abnormal. If it's anyone's fault, blame the parents.


*...unless you're trying to tell me that he had developed his sexual orientation at the age of 2?*







Perhaps you are the one who should re-read the article. The *source* article, not the excerpts.


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## Hells Malice (Oct 29, 2011)

> Colorado 7-year-old* Bobby Montoya wants what most little girls want: Dolls, My Little Pony figures and to join the Girl Scouts*.
> But there’s one problem: Bobby's a boy.
> He said he wants to follow his sister in joining the group, but when a troop leader said it wouldn’t work out, the rejection left him devastated.
> Bobby, who said he’s been bullied* for looking and dressing like a girl, *told KUSA-TV: 'It's hurting my heart. It hurts me and my mom both.'
> ...



Bolded the parts for you to...read.
You can...read, right?

I don't give a fuck if he's transgendered or not. I really don't. I don't care if you think he is or isn't I don't care if a professional tells me he is or isn't, i don't care if a dragon invades my home, rips me in half and shits the truth that Bobby isn't transgendered down my mangled corpse. That isn't the point, it isn't the topic, and it isn't anywhere in these posts, relevant.
Bobby apparently (and you can't say otherwise because you don't know SHIT about him) looks like a girl, dresses like a girl, does girl things, and likely PREFERS being around girls.
Sounds like a girlscout to me. I don't care if he has a tiny little 7 year old penis, and clearly neither does the Girl Scouts. Only ignorant morons seem to care, actually.

Like I said, you can argue that his mom shouldn't enable her son to act in this way, that she should tell him no and not let him do it.
But the magic of this is, if he's transgendered, he'll keep doing what he's doing. If he isn't, he'll eventually drop the girl act and grow into being a male. He's 7, who cares right now. Just let him be.
Again though, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Girls Scouts, nor him being allowed to participate in them.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2011)

Hells Malice said:


> Bolded the parts for you to...read.
> You can...read, right?
> 
> I don't give a fuck if he's transgendered or not. I really don't. I don't care if you think he is or isn't I don't care if a professional tells me he is or isn't, i don't care if a dragon invades my home, rips me in half and shits the truth that Bobby isn't transgendered down my mangled corpse. That isn't the point, it isn't the topic, and it isn't anywhere in these posts, relevant.
> ...



Oh, excuse me for writing his age wrong, I'm not sure where that came from, I suppose I was just tired in the middle of the night. Anything else?

I will let your clear attempts at offending me slide, just because you don't seem to know much of what you're talking about or what was my point.

You seem to be an incredibly angry person, you're also quick to pull out the profanities and I'm not sure why. Your assumption that "if he's not transgender, he will stop" is also false, and I will briefly explain to you why.

"It's in my D.N.A, I'm Gay!" and similar slogans are *bogus*, it's been shown in countless scientific tests that there is nothing inherently related to sexuality in the human genome. This leads to an obvious conclusion - sexuality is something a human being *develops*. Now that this is established, let's dwell in a bit further.

There are numerous theories about human development, but most scientists believe that a human being learns thanks to the art of mimicry. As children, we select role models and mimic their behaviour - which is a notion comming straight from *Behaviorism*. It's not THAT easy though, *role models* are also derrived from what we *experience *and see outside the *family unit* - in television, on the internet, in school. A child is almost like a *metaphorical sponge* - it sucks up *behavioral patterns*. Those patterns are later expressed, and much like in the animal kingdom, humans learn whether certain patterns are correct or not using a simple *system of rewards and punishments*. I'm not talking about corporal punishment, *god forbid* - there are different ways in which parents may convey a message.

Thing is, a message stating "you are acting wrong" can only be accepted by a *person early in development* and from a person who is conscidered an *authority *by the child in question. You don't just have to be a parent to tell your child what's a right pattern and what's not - you also have to *be an authority*.

And here we have Bobby - Bobby who at the age of 2 *decided *that he will *start mimicing behavioral patterns of the opposite sex rather than his own*, since as a child he knows no better. Afterall, according to Behaviorism, we are born as *blank slates* with nothing coded in us other then primal instincts of survival. His mother chose not to correct this "mistake", in fact, *by not acknowledging the problem*, she also *lost a little bit of the authority*. Bobby was *left to be his own boss*.

The tendency grew, and now Bobby not only likes "girl toys", he also dresses like girls and acts like girls - *that is now his fancy*. He also reached a certain age (in most cases it's the age of 7) where* the acquisition of behavioral patterns slows down dramatically* and is replaced by acquisition of "useful knowledge". The patterns turned into habbits and his likes, previously acquired, now are his personal and most likely unchangable. He will always fancy women's clothing to a certain extent because that is what was *coded *in his mind as accepted since he was a child.

Obviously, when he was 2, 3, 4 or 5, nobody bullied him for it -* who would bully him in his own family*. Now, he's facing a different, *school envioriment* where behaviour accepted by his mother is not accepted by his group. Bobby naturally seeks a social unit that will accept him and his traits, and he found one - girls themselves.

His *primal instincts* tell him to *stay with people who share his traits* to enhance his chances of "survival", in the metaphorical sense. He *desires to be accepted*. (from *Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs*).

He will **not* *stop being girly just because he'll "grow out of it", deep down he is now a *different "apple"*. Let's say that girls are oranges and boys are apples - you can paint an apple orange, you can spray an orange-like scent on it, you can shape it like an orange and from a distance you may be decieved that it is in fact an orange, but deep down it is an apple and it *belongs in the apple basket*.

I bolded the smart and important words you'd already know if you studied the subject, for example at University, like one of us. Hint - *not you*.

Bobby is no longer an "apple-like" apple, he's an "orange-like" apple, however, an apple nonetheless. He doesn't deserve ridicule or bullying, by no means! He is different though, and it's worth to understand why. Do you understand the message I am trying to convey here?

It's not too late for Bobby's parents to grab the reins of responsibility and do something about it, but it soon will be. The kid's not "7 and a girl trapped in a boy's body", he's "7 and confused", and his parent should do, to the best of their abilities, all they can to help him in his situation rather than encourage and do whatever it takes to "keep him happy". Life isn't that simple, as one of the comments says on the source site, "Sometimes we're not happy" that is how life works. If kicking puppies would make the child happy, I'm pretty sure the reaction would be different. It seems this situation has no victims, but it does - *the victim is Bobby*. His parents are supposed to *raise him*, not *please him*.

*PS:* I don't have to *"know shit"* about Bobby to *analyze his case*.


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## gokujr1000 (Oct 29, 2011)

Good on them for letting a Boy into Girl Scouts, by the way their cookies are amazing.


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## Midna (Oct 29, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> He reffers to himself as a boy - he does not have a mentality of a girl, he just likes "girls stuff". That does not make him feminene, that makes him weird. You're mixing two different things - tastes in games, shows and clothing and *psychology*. A 12-year old has no concept of sexuality yet - he cannot be transgender simply because he does not comperhend the meaning behind it. He is just enabled by his parents to act in an unfitting pattern, which is somewhat hurting the poor lad. The boy simply developed an interest when he was 2 years old and his parents did nothing to explain what's wrong about it to him, thus he grew up to be a bit abnormal. If it's anyone's fault, blame the parents. *...unless you're trying to tell me that he had developed his sexual orientation at the age of 2?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not going to even try to read your later wall of text, but just wanted to point that sexual orientation has nothing to do with gender.

Cheers from Canada

Edit: Now I actually did read it. Regardless of the validity of your points, you're an asshole >.>


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## wrettcaughn (Oct 29, 2011)

After reading some of the posts here and seeing where the conversation has gone, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not "smart" enough to have an opinion on this topic...
So I'll just say, welcome to now and good luck with later.


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## smile72 (Oct 30, 2011)

Midna is right sexual orientation has nothing to do with gender.


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## Thesolcity (Oct 30, 2011)

smile72 said:


> Midna is right sexual orientation has nothing to do with gender.



Well, no it doesn't. But its illogical to say that he has a grasp of his sexuality at that young of an age. Maybe he is a bit more "sensitive", getting in touch with his feminine side? That's what it looks like to me. Plus, he gets to hang out with more girls which may help him later in life (if you know what I mean ). 



Spoiler



JK. But seriously, let the kid have his fun. He wants to bake cookies and do other girl scout things, so?


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## smile72 (Oct 30, 2011)

Some people do have a grasp of their sexuality and feeling of their gender at that age or even a little younger. Does he, I don't know, but nonetheless you're right leave the kid alone he's not hurting anyone.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2011)

Midna said:


> Edit: Now I actually did read it. Regardless of the validity of your points, you're an asshole >.>



I'm sorry if I came across that way. It's by no means a speech of hatered againts people of non-heterosexual orientation or transgender, what I was trying to establish was that a human being is born with no sexual and gender identity whatsoever. I can see how my words might've been misconstrued and I apologize for that, hence this little little clarification.

I don't think it was that much of a wall of text, I tried to divide it into meaningful paragraphs. Studies like this simply can't be compressed, it's a very complex subject and I only explained it briefly anyways.

Also, "Gender" and "Sexuality" are not mutually exclusive - those concepts interlink with eachother on many levels and it's always more sensible to talk about both at the same time rather than trying to artificially separate them.


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