# Spine, a new PS4 emulator, can already run two commercial games



## Reploid (Jun 11, 2019)

Wow, it emulates an emulator


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## leon315 (Jun 11, 2019)

Do we need a 500bucks I9900k and 500bucks 32gb ram to run this emulator?


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## pasc (Jun 11, 2019)

*checks calendar* ... not april.


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## hippy dave (Jun 11, 2019)

RattletraPM said:


> Spine takes a different approach from the already mentioned Orbital. The *latter* is a Low-Level Emulator (LLE) focused on mimicking the hardware's behaviour as accurately as possible to run software designed for the platform on another machine, while the *latter* is a High-Level Emulator (HLE) which instead tries to recreate the original platform's functions to run the software on the host, thus trading off accuracy for performance in the process.


Whoopsie. Good story tho ty.


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## RattletraPM (Jun 11, 2019)

hippy dave said:


> Whoopsie. Good story tho ty.


Heh_...fixed ^^"._


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## D34DL1N3R (Jun 11, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Do we need a 500bucks I9900k and 500bucks 32gb ram to run this emulator?



You forgot about the $1,500 GPU.


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## smf (Jun 11, 2019)

I want to see how well it runs on ps4 linux


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## Owenge (Jun 11, 2019)

good shit!


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## Rabbid4240 (Jun 11, 2019)

Oh cool, it plays nes games.


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## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2019)

SexySpai said:


> Oh cool, it plays nes games.


To be fair the video shows newer games like stardew valley..


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## leon315 (Jun 11, 2019)

D34DL1N3R said:


> You forgot about the $1,500 GPU.


but lastest AMD gpu costs only 449 tho!


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## Rabbid4240 (Jun 11, 2019)

Sasori said:


> To be fair the video shows newer games like stardew valley..


As long as it plays music and nes games, I'm set.


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 11, 2019)

Not bad, I'll take a look.


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## D34DL1N3R (Jun 11, 2019)

leon315 said:


> but lastest AMD gpu costs only 449 tho!



I decided to give an AMD gpu a try with my last build. Nothing but problems. Never again. Problems that have been documented by plenty of people since it's release 6 yrs ago and have never been fixed in a single driver update.  It's time for me to upgrade but it's not going to be AMD.


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## Kubas_inko (Jun 11, 2019)

I would pay for anything to run PS4 games on PC. Just not for the PS4.


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## digipimp75 (Jun 11, 2019)

Forget this shit and release a new kernel exploit already!


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## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2019)

digipimp75 said:


> Forget this shit and release a new kernel exploit already!


So entitled...

Comments like this are why people work in private or just don't release things publicly


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## leon315 (Jun 11, 2019)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I decided to give an AMD gpu a try with my last build. Nothing but problems. Never again. Problems that have been documented by plenty of people since it's release 6 yrs ago and have never been fixed in a single driver update.  It's time for me to upgrade but it's not going to be AMD.


The one showed at E3 seems promising, if i ever build another pc, i would definitely get Ryzen cpu!


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 11, 2019)

I saw this a couple days ago, super neat to see how different and quickly the progress can be with HLE vs LLE.


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## Ev1l0rd (Jun 11, 2019)

Hrmm, dissapointed there's no source code to the emulator.


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## Mythical (Jun 11, 2019)

Well then


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## D34DL1N3R (Jun 11, 2019)

leon315 said:


> The one showed at E3 seems promising, if i ever build another pc, i would definitely get Ryzen cpu!



I was talking gpu, but I'd have even less consideration for an AMD cpu than one of their gpu's. Haha.


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## chaoskagami (Jun 11, 2019)

← This user was making an idiot of himself with the paragraph formerly here.

And while this is cool and all, source code would be nice. I'm sick of proprietary emulators.


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## Ericzander (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> And while this is cool and all, source code would be nice. I'm sick of proprietary emulators.


Sorry to correct you, but because the PS4 is x86_64, this isn't considered a proprietary emulator. :/ 

It's a proprietary virtual machine.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 12, 2019)

smf said:


> I want to see how well it runs on ps4 linux


this is evil I love it


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## DKAngel (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> Raaaaargh. Stop calling PS4 "emulators" emulators. They're either virtual machines or compatibility layers. It's not an emulator if it doesn't do instruction set translation. The PS4 is x86_64, and that makes it not an emulator. Of course, that says nothing about how difficult it is to implement one, but it is not an emulator.
> 
> And while this is cool and all, source code would be nice. I'm sick of proprietary emulators.




Actualy it is an emulator  - Emulate- match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation. / reproduce the function or action of (a different computer, software system, etc.).

still fits in that catagory.
 its not a virtual machine not even close

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Ericzander said:


> Sorry to correct you, but because the PS4 is x86_64, this isn't considered a proprietary emulator. :/
> 
> It's a proprietary virtual machine.



Virtual machine
Kind of software
*Description*
In computing, a virtual machine is an emulation of a computer system. 

well its still emulation lol because thats exactly what a virtual machine is, its an emulator of a system


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## TheZander (Jun 12, 2019)

I hope this ported to the switch i finally wouldn't have to carry my ps4 and games around just play them on the switch


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## Dartz150 (Jun 12, 2019)

TheZander said:


> I hope this ported to the switch i finally wouldn't have to carry my ps4 and games around just play them on the switch



You like to honor the statement in your signature huh? LOL


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## chaoskagami (Jun 12, 2019)

Ericzander said:


> Sorry to correct you, but because the PS4 is x86_64, this isn't considered a proprietary emulator. :/
> 
> It's a proprietary virtual machine.



Ahahaha. Okay, you got me there.


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## smf (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> It's not an emulator if it doesn't do instruction set translation.



No, that isn't a true definition at all.

emulate has such a wide and vague definition. Old dot matrix printers had ibm or epson emulation, that just meant they could print the relevant escape sequences and character sets.


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## chaoskagami (Jun 12, 2019)

smf said:


> No, that isn't a true definition at all.
> 
> emulate has such a wide and vague definition. Old dot matrix printers had ibm or epson emulation, that just meant they could print the relevant escape sequences and character sets.



See, this is an interesting topic. To clarify, those printers likely translate the escape sequences internally from one spec to another. Therefore, they do in fact perform emulation.

This is the same reason a terminal emulator on linux is a terminal emulator - it emulates a teletype by implementing the relevant control codes in software.

But you're right, I suppose. The definition of an emulator is rather muddy. I suppose it'd be more accurate to call such a thing one term or another based on _how_ it runs the PS4 software. But, well...this isn't open source, so I have no idea really. Orbital is more a virtual machine, however.


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## Pluupy (Jun 12, 2019)

D34DL1N3R said:


> I decided to give an AMD gpu a try with my last build. Nothing but problems. Never again. Problems that have been documented by plenty of people since it's release 6 yrs ago and have never been fixed in a single driver update.  It's time for me to upgrade but it's not going to be AMD.


Talk about overreacting. Vague hyperbole. No specifics. Both Nvidia and AMD cards have plenty of issues. If you don't like AMD because of irrational tribalism pride, just say it. Don't claim the cards don't work, because they do. I have used both Nvidia and AMD since I was little and they both have their pros and cons, brand by brand, but never have they been completely shot. Stick to Gigabyte, EVGA, XFX, Sapphire, and MSI.


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## Ericzander (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> Ahahaha. Okay, you got me there.


Didn't mean to make you edit your post, I just couldn't resist, haha.


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## chaoskagami (Jun 12, 2019)

Ericzander said:


> Didn't mean to make you edit your post, I just couldn't resist, haha.



Nah, s'okay. I was asking for that one. Sometimes it's fun to laugh at one's own stupidity.


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## kuwanger (Jun 12, 2019)

leon315 said:


> 500buck 32gb ram



32GB RAM might only be ~$100.  Beyond that, now that I have 32GB of RAM...I realize that 16GB was probably more than enough.


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## Deleted_413010 (Jun 12, 2019)

When a developer pops out of nowhere and is doing better than the only other one known to exist


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## D34DL1N3R (Jun 12, 2019)

Pluupy said:


> Talk about overreacting. Vague hyperbole. No specifics. Both Nvidia and AMD cards have plenty of issues. If you don't like AMD because of irrational tribalism pride, just say it. Don't claim the cards don't work, because they do. I have used both Nvidia and AMD since I was little and they both have their pros and cons, brand by brand, but never have they been completely shot. Stick to Gigabyte, EVGA, XFX, Sapphire, and MSI.



Because I care what you think, why? Sorry that my opinions really bother you to the point of having to post that. Maybe the internet isn't the place for you.

Edit: When there's documented issues with AMD's entire 7900 series, which have gone unfixed for 6 years now.... yeah. I don't need to explain the specifics to you no matter how much you'd like me to. Don't like it? Tough. I especially have zero need to prove myself to a complete stranger online.


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## ChibiMofo (Jun 12, 2019)

Pluupy said:


> Talk about overreacting. Vague hyperbole. No specifics. Both Nvidia and AMD cards have plenty of issues. If you don't like AMD because of irrational tribalism pride, just say it. Don't claim the cards don't work, because they do. I have used both Nvidia and AMD since I was little and they both have their pros and cons, brand by brand, but never have they been completely shot. Stick to Gigabyte, EVGA, XFX, Sapphire, and MSI.



Do not pretend that AMD graphics card issues are not an order or magnitude larger than Nvidia's. There's a reason AMD can't charge the same price for the same level of performance. And there's a reason people who pay attention stopped buying anything but Nvidia cards years ago. Wanna save a few bucks and deal with ATI's drivers? Feel free. But don't come to a forum like this and try to say that both companies have issues as if they have them equally.
#rejected


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## chaoskagami (Jun 12, 2019)

1MiinMofo said:


> Do not pretend that AMD graphics card issues are not an order or magnitude larger than Nvidia's. There's a reason AMD can't charge the same price for the same level of performance. And there's a reason people who pay attention stopped buying anything but Nvidia cards years ago. Wanna save a few bucks and deal with ATI's drivers? Feel free. But don't come to a forum like this and try to say that both companies have issues as if they have them equally.
> #rejected



The crux of your argument seems to be drivers. The AMD Windows drivers do in fact suck. However, that shouldn't be blamed on hardware. After all, the FOSS radeon drivers on Linux kick the proprietary ones arse in pretty much every way and actually outperform the Windows drivers. You have only yourself to blame for expecting Windows drivers to behave themselves. I mean, it's Windows - you know - the OS that BSoD's if you leave it running for more than four days.

Also, lower performance has never been an issue. It's a shortcoming, sure. But an issue? No.

By the way, you're not making your argument any more solid by dumping hashtags at the end of your post. This isn't twitter.


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## Hacktendo (Jun 12, 2019)

Yoooo 
Someone get this running on L4T on Switch lol 
since it's only for Linux


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## Bedel (Jun 12, 2019)

Kubas_inko said:


> I would pay for anything to run PS4 games on PC. Just not for the PS4.


You may want to try PSNow then.


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## EIREXE (Jun 12, 2019)

Ev1l0rd said:


> Hrmm, dissapointed there's no source code to the emulator.


The developer does plan to open source, at least.

It really is a different approach, Orbital uses low level emulation and leverages QEMU, this is a more traditional high level emulator.


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> The crux of your argument seems to be drivers. The AMD Windows drivers do in fact suck. However, that shouldn't be blamed on hardware. After all, the FOSS radeon drivers on Linux kick the proprietary ones arse in pretty much every way and actually outperform the Windows drivers. You have only yourself to blame for expecting Windows drivers to behave themselves. I mean, it's Windows - you know - the OS that BSoD's if you leave it running for more than four days.
> 
> Also, lower performance has never been an issue. It's a shortcoming, sure. But an issue? No.
> 
> By the way, you're not making your argument any more solid by dumping hashtags at the end of your post. This isn't twitter.


Now, now. I've been running without crashes for 5 days now!


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## EIREXE (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> The crux of your argument seems to be drivers. The AMD Windows drivers do in fact suck. However, that shouldn't be blamed on hardware. After all, the FOSS radeon drivers on Linux kick the proprietary ones arse in pretty much every way and actually outperform the Windows drivers. You have only yourself to blame for expecting Windows drivers to behave themselves. I mean, it's Windows - you know - the OS that BSoD's if you leave it running for more than four days.
> 
> Also, lower performance has never been an issue. It's a shortcoming, sure. But an issue? No.
> 
> By the way, you're not making your argument any more solid by dumping hashtags at the end of your post. This isn't twitter.


At work we use purely AMD and (unfortunately) on Windows, the performance is pretty nice (vega 56s can be had for cheap) so we are quite happy.

Raw performance really isn't the most important thing, it's the fact the bloody thing works, and the adrenalin software has generally been less of a headache for us than geforce experience.


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## DKAngel (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> The crux of your argument seems to be drivers. The AMD Windows drivers do in fact suck. However, that shouldn't be blamed on hardware. After all, the FOSS radeon drivers on Linux kick the proprietary ones arse in pretty much every way and actually outperform the Windows drivers. You have only yourself to blame for expecting Windows drivers to behave themselves. I mean, it's Windows - you know - the OS that BSoD's if you leave it running for more than four days.
> 
> Also, lower performance has never been an issue. It's a shortcoming, sure. But an issue? No.
> 
> By the way, you're not making your argument any more solid by dumping hashtags at the end of your post. This isn't twitter.




windows and bsod.....ummm maybe not since windows 7 my pc had an uptime of over 150+ days and not a single bsod so stop spreading FUD esp when graphics drivers will not bring a system down any more, most things have been seperated out so you get very minimal BSOD


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 12, 2019)

oh wow it runs megaman wow even my 1080 ti can't run that! yeah lets see it run dragon quest or the new final fantasy games not gowna happen anytime soon


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## Unity150_magickavoxel (Jun 12, 2019)

Seems supicuous.


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## Taleweaver (Jun 12, 2019)

RattletraPM said:


> The emulator is still in early development and is available for Linux only at the time of writing.


Did linux just got his first major timed exclusive game here (even though an emulator is stretching the term 'game' a bit) ?


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## chaoskagami (Jun 12, 2019)

DKAngel said:


> windows and bsod.....ummm maybe not since windows 7 my pc had an uptime of over 150+ days and not a single bsod so stop spreading FUD esp when graphics drivers will not bring a system down any more, most things have been seperated out so you get very minimal BSOD



It was a half-joke. It's fact though that Windows is less stable than Linux, and it's also not engineered as well in certain ways. Windows can survive forever if you leave it idling, but if you're using it constantly, the probability of something going wrong approaches 1 over a period that decreases corresponding to how much crap you've installed.

Also, not seeing FUD here. Fear, unrest, distress? Just not seeing it. If my posts were FUD, so were your posts about ATI cards.

Oh, by the way. On Windows, drivers run in ring 0. Any driver crash or bug will bring down the kernel. That is, unless the drivers run under the user-mode driver framework, which graphics drivers cannot do. And I vaguely recall a recent incident in which spectre/meltdown patches were causing BSoDs due to badly implemented graphics drivers. Hmmm.


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## raxadian (Jun 12, 2019)

Mmm, and how is PS3 emulation going?


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 12, 2019)

raxadian said:


> Mmm, and how is PS3 emulation going?


I mean, nearly 90% of PS3 games now go in game on RPCS3, and half of those are marked as fully playable (with some minor bugs, I'm sure) sooo...pretty good for emulation of a console as "advanced" as the PS3 is.


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## guily6669 (Jun 12, 2019)

leon315 said:


> Do we need a 500bucks I9900k and 500bucks 32gb ram to run this emulator?


Nop, I think this needs the Intel Xeon Platinum 8168 costing almost 6000$, the more you pay, the better it runs 

But anyway the consoles are already X86\X64, it was cool was if anyone could actually convert the games to run on windows, but they surely will be full of voodoo magic inside so yeah .


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## raxadian (Jun 12, 2019)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I mean, nearly 90% of PS3 games now go in game on RPCS3, and half of those are marked as fully playable (with some minor bugs, I'm sure) sooo...pretty good for emulation of a console as "advanced" as the PS3 is.



By advanced you mean "It was a birch to program for."


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## AkikoKumagara (Jun 12, 2019)

Pluupy said:


> Stick to Gigabyte, EVGA, XFX, Sapphire, and MSI.


Speaking personally, from my numerous experiences, I'd add Asus to this list as well.


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## smf (Jun 12, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> This is the same reason a terminal emulator on linux is a terminal emulator - it emulates a teletype by implementing the relevant control codes in software.



Most terminals used software too, but it was normally in rom and you couldn't change it. Although the DataPoint 2200 could load emulations from tape (the Intel 8008 CPU was designed for it but they ended up shipping a TTL implementation instead).



chaoskagami said:


> Oh, by the way. On Windows, drivers run in ring 0. Any driver crash or bug will bring down the kernel. That is, unless the drivers run under the user-mode driver framework, which graphics drivers cannot do. And I vaguely recall a recent incident in which spectre/meltdown patches were causing BSoDs due to badly implemented graphics drivers. Hmmm.



Linux is no different https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html


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## chaoskagami (Jun 13, 2019)

smf said:


> Most terminals used software too, but it was normally in rom and you couldn't change it. Although the DataPoint 2200 could load emulations from tape (the Intel 8008 CPU was designed for it but they ended up shipping a TTL implementation instead).



Interesting bit of history there. Didn't know that. Then again...ancient printers aren't exactly my area of expertise, y'know?



smf said:


> Linux is no different https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html



Nice goal post shifting. I never said Linux was problem free - I said that the FOSS radeon drivers kick Windows' arse and that Windows tends to crash all the time. Did I say Linux was perfect? No. Try a different rebuttal - that one isn't gonna cut it. 

Linux is better at surviving partial crashes - a kernel oops usually won't kill the kernel, but under Windows any such similar condition would cause a bugcheck.

Also, half that list doesn't seem to affect me at all, but that's probably because I run Gentoo and manually configure everything.


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## Sheimi (Jun 13, 2019)

Hmmm....i'll wait for bloodborne


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## kevin corms (Jun 13, 2019)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I mean, nearly 90% of PS3 games now go in game on RPCS3, and half of those are marked as fully playable (with some minor bugs, I'm sure) sooo...pretty good for emulation of a console as "advanced" as the PS3 is.


The ps3 is quite exotic, so they are doing great all things considered.


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## chocoboss (Jun 13, 2019)

I like to see ppl telling that AMD is shit ... AMD is in PS4 and Xbox one
AMD will be in next gen console.

AMD is not that bad, you are just fu**** blinded be nvidia and intel that sell you the same thing 2 or 3 time more expensive !


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## UltraSUPRA (Jun 13, 2019)

I'll get this when it's able to run on a potato PC that chugs hard on Dolphin.


Like mine.


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## smf (Jun 13, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> Nice goal post shifting. I never said Linux was problem free - I said that the FOSS radeon drivers kick Windows' arse and that Windows tends to crash all the time. Did I say Linux was perfect? No. Try a different rebuttal - that one isn't gonna cut it.



Windows doesn't tend to crash all the time, unless maybe if you have buggy kernel drivers although I haven't had a problem in years as driver testing has become much more controlled. There have been buggy linux drivers that take down linux systems more recently.

The way you talk about linux is like it's shit don't stink.

I hate radeon, always had better luck with nvidia, I'd go so far to say that I wouldn't use an AMD product if you paid me.



chaoskagami said:


> Linux is better at surviving partial crashes - a kernel oops usually won't kill the kernel, but under Windows any such similar condition would cause a bugcheck.



Another point against Linux then.


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## kevin corms (Jun 13, 2019)

chocoboss said:


> I like to see ppl telling that AMD is shit ... AMD is in PS4 and Xbox one
> AMD will be in next gen console.
> 
> AMD is not that bad, you are just fu**** blinded be nvidia and intel that sell you the same thing 2 or 3 time more expensive !



The cpu in the ps4 is fairly weak, no amount of tribalism changes that. That being said, Ryzen cpus have been good so far.


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## gnmmarechal (Jun 13, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> The cpu in the ps4 is fairly weak, no amount of tribalism changes that. That being said, Ryzen cpus have been good so far.


I mean... It's almost like an FX-8350 with half the clock speed. As much as I like the FX-8350 and as much as it performs pretty decently, ehhhhhhh, the PS4's is just.... no.


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## chaoskagami (Jun 13, 2019)

smf said:


> Windows doesn't tend to crash all the time, unless maybe if you have buggy kernel drivers although I haven't had a problem in years as driver testing has become much more controlled. There have been buggy linux drivers that take down linux systems more recently.



Bugs happen. It doesn't matter how much you want to pretend they don't. Developers aren't perfect.



> The way you talk about linux is like it's shit don't stink.



Again, goal post shifting. Also, this sort of inflammatory statement isn't valid discussion. What am I supposed to say back? Windows smells like donkey crap? Linux doesn't stink, but its shit does? I mean, seriously. What do you want from me with that kind of statement?

How about: News flash. This isn't about Linux. This is about graphics drivers on multiple platforms. Try again with a better argument that's not attacking the kernel for something that is mostly the Mesa project and vendors. Hell, the graphics stack is pretty much identical on BSD, for fuck's sake.



> I hate radeon, always had better luck with nvidia, I'd go so far to say that I wouldn't use an AMD product if you paid me.



I see. How is this relevant to proving your point? All I see is you pretending that AMD has "issues" whilst not saying _what_ issues exactly.



> Another point against Linux then.



lolwhat. Bugcheck = BSOD = kernel panic. An oops (which is different from a kpanic) causes the faulty module to be isolated/removed and everything continues as normal without it. Linux is better at recovering from kernel issues than Windows. What part of that statement was unclear to you? That's a point _for_ Linux, not against. I mean, unless you _like_ rebooting all the time, then who am I to judge?


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## Xabring (Jun 13, 2019)

Reploid said:


> Wow, it emulates an emulator


Emulaception!


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## Jokey_Carrot (Jun 14, 2019)

uses hle instead of lle to be faster and already runs 2 games:

People who tried to emulate the original xbox


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## Jokey_Carrot (Jun 14, 2019)

ha amd opengl keep dreaming


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## smf (Jun 15, 2019)

chaoskagami said:


> Bugs happen. It doesn't matter how much you want to pretend they don't. Developers aren't perfect.



But apparently linux bugs are understandable, windows bugs are worse than hitler.



chaoskagami said:


> Again, goal post shifting. Also, this sort of inflammatory statement isn't valid discussion. What am I supposed to say back? Windows smells like donkey crap? Linux doesn't stink, but its shit does? I mean, seriously. What do you want from me with that kind of statement?



You make derogatory statements about Windows and then act the victim when I say something back, I think this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.



chaoskagami said:


> How about: News flash. This isn't about Linux. This is about graphics drivers on multiple platforms. Try again with a better argument that's not attacking the kernel for something that is mostly the Mesa project and vendors. Hell, the graphics stack is pretty much identical on BSD, for fuck's sake.



BSD will suffer the same issues if you want to play that game.



chaoskagami said:


> I see. How is this relevant to proving your point? All I see is you pretending that AMD has "issues" whilst not saying _what_ issues exactly.



I've always had laptops, the hardware and driver updates were both sub par. I've had some issues with nvidia, but nowhere near as bad as AMD.



chaoskagami said:


> lolwhat. Bugcheck = BSOD = kernel panic. An oops (which is different from a kpanic) causes the faulty module to be isolated/removed and everything continues as normal without it. Linux is better at recovering from kernel issues than Windows. What part of that statement was unclear to you? That's a point _for_ Linux, not against. I mean, unless you _like_ rebooting all the time, then who am I to judge?



Linux is better at trying to limp along pretending that everything is fine. If Gnu Hurd ever takes off then you maybe you'll have a point.


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## Ev1l0rd (Jun 15, 2019)

smf said:


> But apparently linux bugs are understandable, windows bugs are worse than hitler.


I have little stake in the discussion, but windows gives you an obscure BSOD with a vague explanation. Linux always has logs of what has gone wrong.

There is a definite argument to be made in that.

Which given the windows install already takes up 10gb, isn't really excusable in any form.


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## wicksand420 (Jun 15, 2019)

How come nothing in this thread is about the thread?


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## kevin corms (Jun 15, 2019)

Ev1l0rd said:


> I have little stake in the discussion, but windows gives you an obscure BSOD with a vague explanation. Linux always has logs of what has gone wrong.
> 
> There is a definite argument to be made in that.
> 
> Which given the windows install already takes up 10gb, isn't really excusable in any form.


Windows does have logs as well.


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## Ev1l0rd (Jun 16, 2019)

kevin corms said:


> Windows does have logs as well.


When windows crashes, if you're lucky you'll get a somewhat descriptive BSOD message and a QR code with a  to the side.

If linux crashes, you can still see the logs of what went wrong on your screen that are detailed and explain what went wrong and more often than not you can still use the CLI in another tty anyway to see what exactly went wrong if it doesn't happen.

Actually getting linux to crash completely is suprisingly hard, whereas Windows will gladly BSOD itself if given the option to. Linux will just log you out if say, the X server crashes (something that's quickly figured out as to what went wrong by running startx in a tty and reading the error output of that).


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## Chary (Jun 16, 2019)

This is not a linux vs windows thread, please limit the bickering over OS wars.


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## netovsk (Jun 17, 2019)

Bladexdsl said:


> oh wow it runs megaman wow even my 1080 ti can't run that! yeah lets see it run dragon quest or the new final fantasy games not gowna happen anytime soon



You can run these natively on PC since they're on steam.


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