# Create a warning to warn users that they probably will be banned for modifying their switch/console.



## Ericthegreat (Jul 29, 2018)

The flood of "Will I be banned if" question continues on, many by trolls (which can go die) but also by what is probably little kids(or people new to the scene), of whom which will be sad if their switch is banned. I say we at the least make a sticky or somthing that sticks out to warn that no matter what you do good chance of a ban, and that there is no way to get free games and play online, no matter if you erase the game, or "just" installed one or two games. I know this is silly, but I dunno I think it might be worth it.


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## ChokingVictim87 (Jul 29, 2018)

Would be handy I think


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## Localhorst86 (Jul 29, 2018)

we all know stickies are worthless. New users who are banned are not going to bother reading a stickied thread.


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## Kyuuketsuki (Jul 29, 2018)

Ericthegreat said:


> The flood of "Will I be banned if" question continues on, many by trolls (which can go die) but also by what is probably little kids(or people new to the scene), of whom which will be sad if their switch is banned. I say we at the least make a sticky or something that sticks out to warn that no matter what you do good chance of a ban, and that there is no way to get free games and play online, no matter if you erase the game, or "just" installed one or two games. I know this is silly, but I dunno I think it might be worth it.



It's inevitable that the modified Switch consoles will be banned, but you get the ones who want both things to work their way in regards to wanting to play something they haven't paid for and remain unbanned. Many of us have accepted our fate, even though it's yet to happen to myself (while I still have credit in the eShop - could be the loophole).


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## godreborn (Jul 29, 2018)

aren't you in effect banning yourself if you don't sign in for fear of being banned?


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## FAST6191 (Jul 29, 2018)

Normally I would have filed it under "water wet, sky blue, politicians not noted for having an affinity with the truth", however seeing all that has happened (and the 3ds before it, though it was probably worse) I have to at least raise an eyebrow. More curiously people seem to be upset about a lack of firmware updates and game updates which seems truly odd to me.

Anyway time to thrash out the outline of what such a thing would contain.

For as long as there have been networked computers (so before the internet even) there have been people that fiddle with things and thus get banned. The Switch is no different here.
Worse still is Nintendo expected hackers to be coming and prepared ahead so you are also doing that with early stage hacks, hacks in which nobody cared to look at how to avoid detection.

If you hack now, any hack at all of any kind, then expect a ban. There are no safe methods and nobody has shown how their method is safe or how they are reasonably sure they found and defeated all the detection checks. Only when someone can demonstrate such a thing is it even worth considering that you might not get banned.
There are things you can do that will aggravate conditions and make it blatantly obvious that you have hacked (for instance every cart comes with its own unique signature so Nintendo can see if you lack one), again though for now all hacks can be considered as inviting a ban in short order. The ban could happen in 30 minutes or 30 days, if you can live with a few days before a ban then play it how you will.

The only exception right now will be
1) If you fully isolate yourself from the internet. Obviously this means no internet games, online firmware updates or game updates. In the future you will then be able to remove any "this device was hacked" parts of the log files (if necessary) and do what needs doing. There is no prediction for a date when they can happen. Any network homebrew will also be trickier than you might like.
2) Far more complex. You launch a hack without launching the kernel (possible with some hack setups), take a backup of the flash memory. Do hacks, isolate yourself from online, do all your hackery things, once done with hackery things then restore flash memory back to stock and carry on, with online if necessary. Repeat procedure next time you want to be doing hacker things.

There may be a future option where you have an emulated flash memory (for most devices this concept usually gets dubbed emunand) and can appear as an invalid or another Switch, or isolate that online there, but that is a future concept and not one available at present.

There are multiple types of bans seen, though for here there are two broad types
1) Basic ban. You lose online gameplay but retain the option to download from the eshop.
2) CDN ban/super ban. You lose online gameplay and the option to download game updates and things in the eshop. In some cases it extends to linked accounts but seemingly not for basic hackers.

There is no guarantee that number 2) will not be the default in the future or that 1) will morph into 2). For now 2) seems to be reserved for those people which try to download games they have not otherwise purchased from Nintendo's own servers (there was a popular tool for this on the 3ds, and a similar option for the xbox 360 as well).

In any case there will likely be updates for any given firmware available when it becomes useful to have such a thing, and also the game updates will be downloaded and shared (possibly even freely and openly in public, again looking at the 360 have a look for "360 title updates").

Unbanning might be possible in the future, however it will likely cost something for you as each Switch has its own ID that Nintendo keeps in a list on their servers (which obviously you do not have access to). That means you need another valid ID from another Switch and few will give those away for nothing.


[I was tempted to cover some of the aspects of downloading from the CDN, unique keys/serials in the carts and aspects of https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_strong_antipiracy_measures_implemented_by/ but for a warning that seems overly specific].
I imagine there will be some overly cautious (previously a few have had issues with my exceptions) or not so risk averse that take exception to something I have written there but I will stand by it.


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## SG854 (Jul 29, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Normally I would have filed it under "water wet, sky blue, politicians not noted for having an affinity with the truth", however seeing all that has happened (and the 3ds before it, though it was probably worse) I have to at least raise an eyebrow. More curiously people seem to be upset about a lack of firmware updates and game updates which seems truly odd to me.
> 
> Anyway time to thrash out the outline of what such a thing would contain.
> 
> ...


Fuck I'm not reading that


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## FAST6191 (Jul 29, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Fuck I'm not reading that


While I have written many a long winded post, ones full of complicated language, grammar and things which do not help ease of reading, I would not rate that as one of them.

The trouble for me comes in that if you go too simplistic then people think you have oversimplified (and you kind of have), if you go in depth then you are giving pointless depth for anybody other than someone capable of making hacks themselves. You have to try to find some kind of middle ground.

Failing that
"TL : DR you say. So it goes, enjoy your ban." and in that case we might as well leave it as it is -- the information is all there already for anybody that takes a moment to look and understand the very basics of what they are doing. If we don't care enough to inform them then we have no care if they also get banned.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 29, 2018)

We don't need to warn people about it, everyone should knows that if they mod their system in any way, there is a risk of being banned. Is on the user agreement of the nintendo pages when you sign up for their service or products. They should READ that instead of having someone tell them the obvious.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 29, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Normally I would have filed it under "water wet, sky blue, politicians not noted for having an affinity with the truth", however seeing all that has happened (and the 3ds before it, though it was probably worse) I have to at least raise an eyebrow. More curiously people seem to be upset about a lack of firmware updates and game updates which seems truly odd to me.
> 
> Anyway time to thrash out the outline of what such a thing would contain.
> 
> ...


That looks good, perhaps could its title have a different color, yellow or red? Also a major warning about things like freeshop or nx shop, people need to understand that it uses their consoles cert, that it is not like cdnsp where you can use someone elses cert, people seem to be confusing the two and thinking that those switch freeshops use someone else's cert.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 29, 2018)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> We don't need to warn people about it, everyone should knows that if they mod their system in any way, there is a risk of being banned. Is on the user agreement of the nintendo pages when you sign up for their service or products. They should READ that instead of having someone tell them the obvious.


"everyone should knows that if they mod their system in any way, there is a risk of being banned." little kids saw a youtube video, followed a guide, perhaps both never mention ban risk, or they dont understand. At least people who come to gbatemp shoud get a fair warning.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 29, 2018)

Ericthegreat said:


> "everyone should knows that if they mod their system in any way, there is a risk of being banned." little kids saw a youtube video, followed a guide, perhaps both never mention ban risk, or they dont understand. At least people who come to gbatemp shoud get a fair warning.


I dunno what little kids you're talking about, but it seem like the kind that is too young to be able to sign up for a email address or any game service if they couldn't read the contract and signed one before understanding it. 

I'm not trying to be mean and I understand what your reasoning is for making this post, but as much as gbatemp can do is if people here make guides and ask questions that we remind them they are at risk of ban or point to more reliable sources of guides that do mention "Your console is at risk of ban from Nintendo network if you do mod your system, you have been warned." While it is bad people constantly flood the forums with same topic all the time, it's very challenging to try and cut down on how often it happens. But I hope yours or some good idea comes even though we shouldn't be responsible for it.


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## DinohScene (Jul 29, 2018)

Localhorst86 said:


> we all know stickies are worthless. New users who are banned are not going to bother reading a stickied thread.



Pretty much that.
Stickies will reduce the number of noob questions a bit but it won't stop it.
There will be other noobies that ask the question regardless.

Also people, cut it out with the useless replies.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 29, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> Pretty much that.
> Stickies will reduce the number of noob questions a bit but it won't stop it.
> There will be other noobies that ask the question regardless.
> 
> Also people, cut it out with the useless replies.


The way I feel is, at least there was a warning, if they read it or not, that's not exactly our problem.

Also although I mentioned little kids there are people who just don't understand, and tho they should modify their system if they don't know what they're doing, "free games" is a great motivater.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 30, 2018)

Super simple version of the above then. It feels over simple and donning a hacker hat I would pull at all sorts of threads there.

Banning of hacked Switches

*Will I be banned if I hack?*
Network computers have existed for many years. If you hack something on the network you get risk being banned by the network owners. Banning for hacks goes back decades and even before the internet. The Switch is no different here.

Nintendo knew their Switch console would be hacked and made it so they can detect hackers before the hacks were even made. The current hacks are all hacks made by people that don't care about trying to find out how Nintendo detect things and stop it.

If you hack your Switch now then expected to be banned. This applies to any kind of hack at all.

This will probably change in the future. However nobody has shown they have defeated all the checks. Someone needs to do that before you have an "online safe" hack.

*Ways to prevent bans*
Some will say there are things you can do to be safe or safer with hacks online. This is wrong. There are some things that are safer than others but nothing is safe. Not all bans are instant so you can hack and maybe enjoy 30 days before you are banned.

There are two ways to have hacks but not be banned. Both exceptions have serious downsides. Both exceptions won't do online games, updates or anything else online in the hacked mode.
1) You disable online on your device. Without online it can not send the data back to Nintendo. In the future you will be able to make it look like it was never hacked. Until that day you will not have online (no game updates, no eshop, no online games).
2) You make it so your device never looks like it was hacked. To do this you need a copy of your Switch's flash memory. When you want to do hacker things you get a current backup, go offline, you then do the hacks and finally you restore the backup you took before doing these hacks. You have to do this every time you want to hack or return to normal to go online. It is considered a very annoying type of hack to do.

In the future there will be a method called emunand that will be like 2) but easier. It is not available now and we don't know when it will be.

*Types of ban*
If you are banned there are two main types.

1) Basic ban. You lose online gameplay but still can use the eshop and get game updates.
2) CDN ban/super ban. You lose online gameplay *and* the option to download game updates and things in the eshop. It may also affect any "linked accounts".

A 1) type ban may become a 2) in the future. For now 2) is for people that try to download things they don't have from Nintendo themselves using tools like "freeshop" and "nx shop".

Some people think 2) is harsh. In all previous hacked devices then firmware updates are available for hackers. Game updates will also be downloaded and shared with the general public by hackers.

*Unbanning*

Right now you can't get unbanned. In the future this could change. When it does it will probably cost you. Why it costs is each Switch has its own special key that Nintendo knows. Nintendo has the list of allowed keys so you need one from that and nobody gives up such a key for free.



Sonic Angel Knight said:


> They should READ that instead of having someone tell them the obvious.



I have met contract lawyers that won't do that for their personal stuff. What hope does the general public have?


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Super simple version of the above then. It feels over simple and donning a hacker hat I would pull at all sorts of threads there.
> 
> Banning of hacked Switches
> 
> ...


Tho I liked the first one, the second one is probably better for the target audience.

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FAST6191 said:


> Super simple version of the above then. It feels over simple and donning a hacker hat I would pull at all sorts of threads there.
> 
> Banning of hacked Switches
> 
> ...


The only thing left I would add is something about how it doesn't have to be free games that will get you a ban, maybe even emulators or running a payload in general (I do understand you already addressed this, but just trying to get the "but I only"'s out of the way), but maybe that's too harsh, I forget did Nintendo end up banning 3ds users for Homebrew/cfw? I wasn't very active in the 3ds scene.


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## Patxinco (Jul 30, 2018)

IMO, if someone in this site gets banned, as the moment right now has already shown multiple times, i can only provide them this:






Messing with the Switch, is only gonna provide you a banhammer.
Maybe it's a bit too early to hack the Switch (or not?), only time will tell, so just don't be an idiot and read, information is power, this is truth now and in the future.


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## DeoNaught (Jul 30, 2018)

I think if we had a F.A.Q pop up during like when you are making a thread, like yes your switch will get banned, and list of questions most people ask


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 30, 2018)

DeoNaught said:


> I think if we had a F.A.Q pop up during like when you are making a thread, like yes your switch will get banned, and list of questions most people ask


Like one time ever, for entering the switch hacking forums? I'm not certain of Xenforos capabilitys with that, I'm sure it could be added, but anymore then one time ever would too much.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Jul 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> I have met contract lawyers that won't do that for their personal stuff. What hope does the general public have?


None, the only hope is the people willing to put in time to understand something before they agree to it so they don't have any reason to complain later.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 29, 2018)

The flood of "Will I be banned if" question continues on, many by trolls (which can go die) but also by what is probably little kids(or people new to the scene), of whom which will be sad if their switch is banned. I say we at the least make a sticky or somthing that sticks out to warn that no matter what you do good chance of a ban, and that there is no way to get free games and play online, no matter if you erase the game, or "just" installed one or two games. I know this is silly, but I dunno I think it might be worth it.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 30, 2018)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> None, the only hope is the people willing to put in time to understand something before they agree to it so they don't have any reason to complain later.


Well with the switch especially, I see YouTube videos, that are just like FREE GAMEZ! (There's also those weird anti piracy videos where people talk about how were destroying Nintendo, and how horrible our hacks are, but that's another issue) Anyway, that leads to kids/people who don't know wtf they're doing. It's really weird because it used to be unless you found out about the console modification scene in some obscure way (I saw a weird flashcart on dealextreme or something), they never would find out about it, now it's just random kids watching switch videos.

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## FAST6191 (Jul 30, 2018)

Patxinco said:


> Messing with the Switch, is only gonna provide you a banhammer.
> Maybe it's a bit too early to hack the Switch (or not?), only time will tell, so just don't be an idiot and read, information is power, this is truth now and in the future.



While I would probably say it is too early in that there are not really many games for the Switch, most homebrew is hardly the highly polished stuff you might have seen on the GBA, DS, xbox and Wii (you know, when homebrew was king) and everything is still pretty clunky then that could be dismissed as an opinion (except for no games as that is just straight fact). However if you did leave your switch unable to connect to the internet you could enjoy your hacks for the next year or so until things are more developed. At that point you will probably be able to run a nice "clean my Switch up" application, maybe run the latest hack which dodges all the checks and thus allows online and then have an online hacked Switch.
Alternatively if you did want to do the wipe and restore trick (possibly in combination with something like https://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-...nofficially-without-burning-any-fuses.507461/ ), something which would be very tedious and still leave you open to a user error (Nintendo only has to be right the once) you could enjoy both a measure of online (no hacked games or games you don't own with it though) and a hacked device. At a later date you might convert that to emunand or a safe hacked firmware.

Some seem to think this is effectively a ban, however the promise that you can enjoy hacks now and then join online later stands in defiance of that.

I have no idea when the hack cleanup and safe firmwares might be made, certainly at this point nobody is looking into it that I have seen. I would also expect the end result to be fairly intensely documented and the methods used (TX are obviously not going to give away their hack detection blocking efforts if it was them) to be very high end* before I even consider it for the label online safe, and will lock horns with anybody that tries to make the claim without something of that scope.

*I want a fully mapped kernel and function list (full disassembly would be nice but I will agree that would be a lot of work and could be dodged with the thing before this bracket), change logging, a game of "if I were Nintendo then what would I do?" and a few other more complicated things we don't often see in the sorts of hacking we typically deal with around here. Nintendo are playing hard this time and any workarounds need to play at that level.


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 30, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> While I would probably say it is too early in that there are not really many games for the Switch, most homebrew is hardly the highly polished stuff you might have seen on the GBA, DS, xbox and Wii (you know, when homebrew was kind) and everything is still pretty clunky then that could be dismissed as an opinion (except for no games as that is just straight fact). However if you did leave your switch unable to connect to the internet you could enjoy your hacks for the next year or so until things are more developed. At that point you will probably be able to run a nice "clean my Switch up" application, maybe run the latest hack which dodges all the checks and thus allows online and then have an online hacked Switch.
> Alternatively if you did want to do the wipe and restore trick (possibly in combination with something like https://gbatemp.net/threads/how-to-...nofficially-without-burning-any-fuses.507461/ ), something which would be very tedious and still leave you open to a user error (Nintendo only has to be right the once) you could enjoy both a measure of online (no hacked games or games you don't own with it though) and a hacked device. At a later date you might convert that to emunand or a safe hacked firmware.
> 
> Some seem to think this is effectively a ban, however the promise that you can enjoy hacks now and then join online later stands in defiance of that.
> ...


Psnes is a good Homebrew, probably the other emulators too, as well as the save backup tools. I guess no fancy gui like other systems had, but still runs good.


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## SG854 (Jul 30, 2018)

I Cleaned up Fast6191 post. Mostly for self practice on trying to explain things clearly.
Will My Hacked Nintendo Switch get Banned?

*Will I be banned if I hack?*
Yes, you likely will.

Nintendo can detect your hacks when you connect online. It is not know how Nintendo detect's hack's and no way for people to avoid bans.
If you hack your Switch then expect to be banned. This applies to any kind of hack you do. This may change in the future when online safe hacks are found.

*False Claims on Ways to Prevent Bans*
Some will claim there is safe ways to hack and connect online. This is wrong! There are some ways that are safer than others but nothing is completely safe.
Not all bans are instant and you may enjoy 30 days before you are banned.

*Ways to Avoid Ban*
There are two ways to hack and avoid being banned. Both exceptions have serious downsides.

1) Disable Online on Your Device

Without online Nintendo can't detect your hacked system.
But you can't play online games, install update's or do anything else online related while in hacked mode.

2) Make Your Device Look like it was Never Hacked

To do this you need a copy of your Switch's flash memory that hasn't been tampered with.

When you want hack your Switch have your clean unhacked backup in handy, hack, go offline, then after your done in hacked mode you restore the clean backup you made before doing any hacks. You have to do this every time if want a hacked console and online access. It is considered a very tedious and an annoying type of hack to do.

In the future there will be a method called Emunand that will make Number 2 process easier.
But it's not available now and we don't know when it will be.

*Types of Ban*
If you are banned there are two main types.

1) Basic Ban

You lose online gameplay but you still can use the eshop and install game updates.

2) CDN Ban/Super Ban

You lose online gameplay *and* the option to download game updates and access the eshop.
It may also affect any "Linked Accounts".

A Basic Ban may become a CDN/Super Ban in the future.
For now a CDN/Super Ban is for people that try to download things they don't legally own from Nintendo using tools like "Freeshop" and "NX Shop".

Some people may think they are missing out if they get a CDN/Super Ban. But Firmware Updates and Game updates will be available to download and shared to the general public by hackers through non official means.

*How to Unban Your Switch*

Right now there is no way to unban. In the future this could change. When it does it will probably cost money. Why it costs money is because each Switch has it's own special key that Nintendo has on record. Nintendo has a list of Allowed keys and Banned ones, so will you need get a key that is not banned and nobody gives up their keys for free.


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## MrCokeacola (Jul 30, 2018)

Why a warning? Why not an invitation? I know I can't wait for my switch to get banned from online as I and many others don't want to give Nintendo a dime for their online service. What's a better way to tell Nintendo you want VC and free online then getting banned?


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## Ericthegreat (Jul 31, 2018)

MrCokeacola said:


> Why a warning? Why not an invitation? I know I can't wait for my switch to get banned from online as I and many others don't want to give Nintendo a dime for their online service. What's a better way to tell Nintendo you want VC and free online then getting banned?


I agree Nintendo online sucks, but tell that to the kid who can't wait to play smash bros online....


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## MrCokeacola (Jul 31, 2018)

Ericthegreat said:


> I agree Nintendo online sucks, but tell that to the kid who can't wait to play smash bros online....


Kids should not be hacking their switch anyways. Also kids don't read warning posts.

A warning post is a good idea but I posted what I posted cause getting banned from Nintendo wifi on the Switch is not a big deal. I'm sure we'll have alt-wfc alternatives one day too.


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## masteratoms (Jul 31, 2018)

Rushed to install nxshop because Im a lazy fuck and I read about the superban and didnt hesitated, no new games or at least good games will come out till october when Ill be able to just buy a new switch or as @SG854 mentioned the updates will be able to be installed manually and then install my new pirated games, Im so sorry for Nintendo but I hate the cartridges they just making us customers to pay more for things we didnt asked for.


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## FAST6191 (Jul 31, 2018)

masteratoms said:


> Im so sorry for Nintendo but I hate the cartridges they just making us customers to pay more for things we didnt asked for.


Pending them giving us easy ability to resell downloaded titles, lend them to friends and such I am not inclined to give up physical media.


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## Quantumcat (Aug 1, 2018)

masteratoms said:


> Im so sorry for Nintendo but I hate the cartridges they just making us customers to pay more for things we didnt asked for.


Also physical games are cheaper than eShop games, at least here


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## JiveTheTurkey (Aug 1, 2018)

Ericthegreat said:


> The flood of "Will I be banned if" question continues on, many by trolls (which can go die) but also by what is probably little kids(or people new to the scene), of whom which will be sad if their switch is banned. I say we at the least make a sticky or somthing that sticks out to warn that no matter what you do good chance of a ban, and that there is no way to get free games and play online, no matter if you erase the game, or "just" installed one or two games. I know this is silly, but I dunno I think it might be worth it.


Will I be banned if I ask "will I be banned if"?


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## magico29 (Aug 1, 2018)

Ericthegreat said:


> The flood of "Will I be banned if" question continues on, many by trolls (which can go die) but also by what is probably little kids(or people new to the scene), of whom which will be sad if their switch is banned. I say we at the least make a sticky or somthing that sticks out to warn that no matter what you do good chance of a ban, and that there is no way to get free games and play online, no matter if you erase the game, or "just" installed one or two games. I know this is silly, but I dunno I think it might be worth it.


doesn't matter how many people get banned,we gonna take over very soon!!


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## Ericthegreat (Aug 1, 2018)

magico29 said:


> doesn't matter how many people get banned,we gonna take over very soon!!


What do you mean? The best thing that could happen, is that a generator or something is made, it leads to legitimate people getting banned, Nintendo unbans everyone. Or some kind of file goes mainstream (I doubt it), and parents get nintendo to unban. Would need to be like a Mario maker level that hacked your switch and installs free games or something.

Edit: This won't happen.


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## HideoKojima (Sep 26, 2018)

Localhorst86 said:


> we all know stickies are worthless. New users who are banned are not going to bother reading a stickied thread.


I confirm when you see a sticky dated two months ago you may think it's outdated.


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## Deleted-401606 (Sep 26, 2018)

Nintendos online service sucks anyways tbh.


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