# On "casual" gaming - my new policy



## FAST6191 (Mar 6, 2013)

Despite the term being about as nebulous, ill defined or "defined for the moment" as any term can be my new policy on the matter, and given my present status as USN prodder/guiding hand I guess halfway unofficial site policy, is anybody caught bitching about such things will be treated in the same manner as anybody caught complaining about someone having literacy. If it is a threat to you or your way of life then you are misguided or, to put it very diplomatically, placing yourself far above others which is not really the done thing as I understand it.

Obvious exceptions are for satire and lamenting upon the state of affairs that has led to such a term being deemed necessary by a few absent minded types.
Further possible exception if a company outright says or credible analysis says they forwent making a new entry in a franchise you like to focus solely on ultra ultra simplistic games (hint, there are very few games that can ultimately be deemed ultra ultra simplistic and would require more than a long weekend from a proper dev team).
Naturally suspect business moves and ethical issues arising from companies that might be said to be "casual game companies" or things done in the pursuit of such gameplay archetypes (they have some radically different monetisation models after all) are entirely excluded from this; suspect moves are best called out if they are widely known.

"mobile devices" are probably worth mentioning at this point as they come up in similar conversations (the numeracy to the literacy if you will). They are real, they have specs comparable or greater than a lot of current devices and orders of magnitude greater than anything in the 16 bit era and probably 32 bit as well as evidenced by them being able to emulate such devices and as such they, potential control issues aside, are quite capable of playing any such game from a system there. However, should say Square Enix release a new final fantasy themed game on such devices to the exclusion or detriment of the equivalent on a platform you own you are quite free to say something like "bugger, I really wanted to play that but I do not own the device" or "with the other mobile version pulling focus I imagine it will impact the resulting version on a platform I own" in the same way you might if a developer says further entries/addon content in this series will be [insert platform] exclusive (timed or otherwise) where before it was not or there is little technical reason to do so. Proper whining will still be frowned upon though, for examples of that see bayonetta for the wii u. Megaman platform (3d or otherwise) fans know that you are probably dancing along the cliff edge with several of your number having already gleefully taken the plunge.
Following such a thing their status as competitor to whatever is a discussion worth having. As such it is held that it would be a seriously hard point to argue that they are utterly incomparable which given the world deals heavily in percentages, margins and soft/multiple groupings.....

If someone can come up with a suitable definition capable of standing up to scrutiny the issue might be revisited, this is considered unlikely as any definition capable of withstanding scrutiny here is likely to be narrow enough to be avoided/dismissed with relative ease.


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## Gahars (Mar 6, 2013)

die causal scum cant deel with mah graphcs


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## FAST6191 (Mar 6, 2013)

Gahars said:


> die causal scum cant deel with mah graphcs


Random casual game

Most hardcore of hardcore games


I guess you now be my bitch.


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## Veho (Mar 6, 2013)

That's just the problem, isn't it? The most hardcore of hardcore games of yesteryear are the casual titles of today. Like Pacman. Or Tetris.


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## emigre (Mar 6, 2013)

Veho said:


> That's just the problem, isn't it? The most hardcore of hardcore games of yesteryear are the casual titles of today. Like Pacman. Or Tetris.


 
It just seems any title that can be "pick up and play," is casual. And games that fit that ethos tend to fit in well with portable gaming and is a beneficial factor for the rise of mobile phone gaming,


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## FAST6191 (Mar 6, 2013)

emigre said:


> It just seems any title that can be "pick up and play," is casual. And games that fit that ethos tend to fit in well with portable gaming and is a beneficial factor for the rise of mobile phone gaming,



Yet "play for five minutes or play for five hours", "coming in cold you may not be good but you should be able to get something done*" and "have scope for deep mastery"** would describe the aspirations of almost every multiplayer "hardcore" game for years, indeed I would probably go so far as to say if that is not a goal, even a "wouldn't it be lovely" type one, then you are doing game design wrong.

*even if only as meat shield or something to draw/disperse fire.

**pun, not pun- may the reader decide.


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## Hells Malice (Mar 6, 2013)

Sorry i'm still finding it bizarre I can read an entire post of yours and not retain -anything- you were trying to say.
It's like a gift. It's just amazing how hard your posts are to read, yet they seem coherent enough. I'm blaming punctuation or something. Has to be that.
Or magic, lots of magic.

I tend to think a game is casual when it is intentionally simplified within its genre to be much simpler than the 'norm'. *shrugs* Something like that, defining 'casual' always gets too messy.
My example stands when you consider games like the Call of Duty series nowadays. The game employs a hell of a lot of things to make the game very appealing to a wide audience by making it easy enough for pretty much anyone to play and do well, within a short period of time.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 6, 2013)

Lol fucking casuals in this thread.

But for reals, I don't necessarily have a problem with casual games, hell I play some already (BEJEWELED 3 MASTER RACE). I suppose my biggest problem is when a company that develops more in-depth or "hardcore" games start going in the casual direction, and eventually that's all they start doing. An example: Look at the Call of Doody franchise. I agree with Hell's statement above, CoD has turned into a more casual shooter that anyone can pick up and play than the "hardcore" FPS it used to be in the CoD2/4 days. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly has had some negative effects on the franchise itself (see the constant rehash/10 year olds online arguments). Same with the Dead Space series, in order to attract a wider audience (read: 12 year old CoDFags) they filled the game with shitty shooter mechanics and put horror in last place, and it ruined the feel of what the series was. You could even tell when it started, go out and play the first Dead Space, then go and play 2 for an hour and compare.


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## BORTZ (Mar 6, 2013)

I enjoy this. Can we get one of these for people using the words "irony" and "literally"?


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## Gahars (Mar 6, 2013)

BortzANATOR said:


> I enjoy this. Can we get one of these for people using the words "irony" and "literally"?


 
This is so literally ironic.


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## Veho (Mar 6, 2013)

Unlike "casual games", both "literally" and "irony" have clear definitions (although 99% of people are hazy at best on the latter one). 

We _could_ use one of these for "weaboo", "overrated" and "hipster" though.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 6, 2013)

Veho said:


> ...."irony" have clear definitions (although 99% of people are hazy at best).


How is that one hard to get?


weaboo - much like porn you know it when you see it or indeed you know it when the more primal parts of your brain are the ones in control (kill or be killed in this case which is hopefully not what happens when you view porn).

overrated - "good but everybody knows about it". Sadly the literal definition is no longer in effect, I guess we can take some solace in that we got to witness the evolution of language in action.

Hipster- if you have to ask it is not the case. Some are pleased when this happens and others take great offence at not being taken as one so be wary, or don't as it is not like they can hurt you.


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## wrettcaughn (Mar 6, 2013)

Just a second, I have to go get a law degree so I can make sense of anything stated in the OP...

Also,
casual game is casual (or whatever the hipster-nerds are saying these days...)


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## Blueie (Apr 30, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Despite the term being about as nebulous, ill defined or "defined for the moment" as any term can be my new policy on the matter, and given my present status as USN prodder/guiding hand I guess halfway unofficial site policy, is anybody caught bitching about such things will be treated in the same manner as anybody caught complaining about someone having literacy. If it is a threat to you or your way of life then you are misguided or, to put it very diplomatically, placing yourself far above others which is not really the done thing as I understand it.


 
Sigh. Just because someone is disappointed to see their favorite franchise shift into a genre or style they have no interest in, that doesn't mean that they think they're superior to anyone.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 30, 2013)

Blueie said:


> Sigh. Just because someone is disappointed to see their favorite franchise shift into a genre or style they have no interest in, that doesn't mean that they think they're superior to anyone.





FAST6191 said:


> However, should say Square Enix release a new final fantasy themed game on such devices to the exclusion or detriment of the equivalent on a platform you own you are quite free to say something like "bugger, I really wanted to play that but I do not own the device" or "with the other mobile version pulling focus I imagine it will impact the resulting version on a platform I own"


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## Ericss (May 1, 2013)

How is criticizing casual games any different from criticizing any other genre that one dislikes or thinks is overrated?


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## YayMii (May 1, 2013)

How about we stop classifying the games and just classify the gamers?


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## ShadowSoldier (May 1, 2013)

YayMii said:


> How about we stop classifying the games and just classify the gamers?


 
I actually have to support. I mean, I can sort of see what is a casual game, but barely. I mean, one other person said games like Tetris, or Pacman are casual games today. But I don't think that's true. I mean look at Donkey Kong, that game is still being played competitively, hell all of them are. I'd say more competitively than Call of Duty. Really, any game could be a pick up and play. Some may require a bit longer tutorials, but I don't think Tetris is any more casual than Call of Duty or say BioShock.

But gamers fit with it so much better. Casual gamers are people who just play for like an hour or so, unwind, relax if they're bored or something, something to do just for fun, like reading a book. But a hardcore one is like them asians over in asia land who play it for days straight and end up dying.


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## Sop (May 1, 2013)

I now see what you mean by rambling. You really do tend to ramble on.


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## Veho (May 1, 2013)

Ericss said:


> How is criticizing casual games any different from criticizing any other genre that one dislikes or thinks is overrated?


Because "casual" is not a genre. It's an undefined non-term that most people use to dismiss anything they dislike.


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## xwatchmanx (May 1, 2013)

I just want to say that I spent an hour last night playing the original hardcore PC game on my 3DS.



Spoiler



motherfucking solitaire... In three-DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


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## FAST6191 (May 1, 2013)

I am torn xwatchmanx

On the one hand it is lame edutainment for basic computer skills.

On the other it is played by the best and brightest; is undoubtedly responsible for more lost hours that WOW, EVE, COD, GTA, Quake, Elder scrolls and Doom combined; has seen people go through extraordinary measures to get it back and versions of it have spawned only slightly fewer malware scams than the promise of free porn.


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## The Real Jdbye (May 1, 2013)

I think whining about casual games is rather pointless. They're great to just pick up and play when you're on the toilet or waiting for something/someone, even if you're a hardcore gamer.



Gahars said:


> die causal scum cant deel with mah graphcs


You can always count on Gahars to gay up the conversation.


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## xwatchmanx (May 1, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> I am torn xwatchmanx
> 
> On the one hand it is lame edutainment for basic computer skills.
> 
> On the it is played by the best and brightest; is undoubtedly responsible for more lost hours that WOW, EVE, COD, GTA, Quake, Elder scrolls and Doom combined; has seen people go through extraordinary measures to get it back and versions of it have spawned only slightly fewer malware scams than the promise of free porn.


Isn't it beautiful?

Wait, so the famous PC version was quite literally a tech demo/tutorial for basic mouse use? I never really thought of that, but it makes sense. That's so cool!


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## mechadylan (May 1, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Despite the term being about as nebulous, ill defined or "defined for the moment" as any term can be my new policy on the matter, and given my present status as USN prodder/guiding hand I guess halfway unofficial site policy, is anybody caught bitching about such things will be treated in the same manner as anybody caught complaining about someone having literacy. If it is a threat to you or your way of life then you are misguided or, to put it very diplomatically, placing yourself far above others which is not really the done thing as I understand it.
> 
> Obvious exceptions are for satire and lamenting upon the state of affairs that has led to such a term being deemed necessary by a few absent minded types.
> Further possible exception if a company outright says or credible analysis says they forwent making a new entry in a franchise you like to focus solely on ultra ultra simplistic games (hint, there are very few games that can ultimately be deemed ultra ultra simplistic and would require more than a long weekend from a proper dev team).
> ...


Those words, I know them all; yet, this structure perplexes me.  How is it that your ideas are concrete to me despite such an abstract approach to proper grammar?  What is this sorcery?!?!?!


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## The Milkman (Jun 17, 2013)

Can we get a version for stupid people like me?


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## FAST6191 (Jun 17, 2013)

mechadylan said:


> Those words, I know them all; yet, this structure perplexes me.  How is it that your ideas are concrete to me despite such an abstract approach to proper grammar?  What is this sorcery?!?!?!





The Milkman said:


> Can we get a version for stupid people like me?



FAST6191 marks/analyses FAST6191's mini essay. Sadly I do not even have the benefit of analysing scribblings made when I was drunk, stoned, sleep deprived or otherwise not in a normal frame of mind....... call it a commentary as I see those are popular on various video channels.



> Despite the term being about as nebulous, ill defined or "defined for the moment" as any term can be my new policy on the matter, and given my present status as USN prodder/guiding hand I guess halfway unofficial site policy, is anybody caught bitching about such things will be treated in the same manner as anybody caught complaining about someone having literacy. If it is a threat to you or your way of life then you are misguided or, to put it very diplomatically, placing yourself far above others which is not really the done thing as I understand it.
> 
> _Acknowledgement of that the subject of the essay has a rather fluid definition by way of a list though also acknowledging it potentially still has some meaning at some level. Commas used in their "make an aside" guise to make a threat, in this case that the author has some level of power and it will be used to effect changes where said power applies. An analogy considered apt by the author for the situation at hand. Humorous overstatement (it is games and not a way of life) followed by understatement (the more direct approach would have involved the author's calling the person making the claim of "dem casuals" a cunt)._
> 
> ...


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## Veho (Jun 17, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Can we get a version for stupid people like me?


"Stop saying 'casual'."


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## emigre (Jun 17, 2013)

Here's my approach to interpreting what is a casual gamer from a previous thread,

The definition of a "casual gamer," is near impossible to truly explain. It challenges the contemporary conceptions of what is right and what is wrong. Religion and religious moral values bind us from being free and finding new definitions, new values and a new sense of morality. We must go beyond this religious dominance and become more than man, become the ubermensch as Nietzsche wrote in Thus Spoke Zarathustra. When humanity achieves that than we can truly define what is a "casual gamer."


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## FAST6191 (Jun 17, 2013)

emigre said:


> Here's my approach to interpreting what is a casual gamer from a previous thread,
> 
> The definition of a "casual gamer," is near impossible to truly explain. It challenges the contemporary conceptions of what is right and what is wrong. Religion and religious moral values bind us from being free and finding new definitions, new values and a new sense of morality. We must go beyond this religious dominance and become more than man, become the ubermensch as Nietzsche wrote in Thus Spoke Zarathustra. When humanity achieves that than we can truly define what is a "casual gamer."



That sounds remarkably like a distillation of my "softcore gamer" position from a few months back -- http://gbatemp.net/threads/softcore-gamers-unite.332989/


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## emigre (Jun 17, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> That sounds remarkably like a distillation of my "softcore gamer" position from a few months back -- http://gbatemp.net/threads/softcore-gamers-unite.332989/


 

Than I think it is safe to say we see things from a broadly similar philosophical perspective.


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## The Milkman (Jun 17, 2013)

Veho said:


> "Stop saying 'casual'."


 
Thanks!


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## The Milkman (Jun 17, 2013)

emigre said:


> Than I think it is safe to say we see things from a broadly similar philosophical perspective.


 

Or you guys get your weed from the same guy.


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## Issac (Jun 17, 2013)

My view on casual games and casual gamers:
A casual gamer is someone who plays occasionally, doesn't invest a lot of time into it. It doesn't matter what he plays, as you can casually play some Zelda, casually play some Hotline Miami, casually play Solitaire.
As per some of the definitions of the word casual: "Occurring at irregular or infrequent intervals; occasional", "Not serious or thorough", "Showing little interest or concern", "Being without ceremony or formality; relaxed", "Suited for everyday wear or use".

Now that's my definition of a casual gamer, someone who doesn't invest several hours a day gaming, but plays something from time to time, casually.

So what's a casual game? A game with that particular gamer in mind. A lighter game, so that you don't have to remember 40 pages of story when you decide to play again, something you don't have to practice several hours to be somewhat good at (like COD multiplayer for example). Something you don't have to invest a lot of time into basically. 
An example here, Wordfeud (Scrabble) which was extremely popular at least in Sweden for smartphones. Turnbased, you can pick it up any time you want, no time limit, you don't need to invest a lot of time or dedicate a few hours to that one game. 

But as I said, that's just MY opinion on the term casual game and casual gamer.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 17, 2013)

Issac said:
			
		

> "Occurring at irregular or infrequent intervals; occasional", "Not serious or thorough", "Showing little interest or concern", "Being without ceremony or formality; relaxed", "Suited for everyday wear or use".



That describes me perfectly these days-- my last prolonged session was probably new years eve playing FTL, "ignore the story and piss around" is my approach to everything, I have long sought games I can play when watching a film/reading a book/listening to something and .

40 pages of story.... I suppose it is amusing that in terms of casual TV there are soaps and they have crazy convoluted plots. That said I can not remember the last game I saw that amounted to having to remember a lot of story.


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## FireGrey (Jun 17, 2013)

Well I believe there isn't really casual or hardcore games, just games that appeal to hardcore or casual gamers.
Also defining hardcore and casual has gotten harder due to the fact that 'hardcore' is often associated with Call of Duty, when it has gotten quite casual over the years.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 17, 2013)

FireGrey said:


> Well I believe there isn't really casual or hardcore games, just games that appeal to hardcore or casual gamers.
> Also defining hardcore and casual has gotten harder due to the fact that 'hardcore' is often associated with Call of Duty, when it has gotten quite casual over the years.



Unfortunately you still seem to be in the position we started out in as it is a non term or at least one that is really hard to pin down. Examples are probably good -- I generally know how games are put together, how game mechanics happen, a large chunk of psychological/mathematical discipline known as game theory and the history of computer games and will analyse things from that perspective without any prompting. That particular skillset seems somewhat rare in game playing circles yet in other fields knowing the roughly equivalent disciplines (in film it might be camera work, practical effects, visual shorthand and such like) is a prerequisite to even be considered invested in the field. Throughout all this as well my play skills in any game that is not just a computerised "are you a walking dictionary/calculator?" type game or tetris and bomberman would not trouble anybody in a remotely competitive field.


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## pasc (Sep 22, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Sorry i'm still finding it bizarre I can read an entire post of yours and not retain -anything- you were trying to say.
> It's like a gift. It's just amazing how hard your posts are to read, yet they seem coherent enough. I'm blaming punctuation or something. Has to be that.
> Or magic, lots of magic.
> 
> ...


 
This made me smile... for real.


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## Kirito-kun (Sep 22, 2013)

The difference between a casual and hardcore gamer is the amount of time they are willing to invest into their hobby. Not just into the act of gaming itself, but also interacting with the community, experimenting with ways to achieve the best gaming experience, and being up-to-date with gaming news. A casual gamer isn't interested in any of that. A hardcore gamer is. That's really all the difference is.


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## xwatchmanx (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright, who raised the unholy dead?


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## calmwaters (Sep 22, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> Alright, who raised the unholy dead?


 
It would appear to be the Official GameBoy Freak of the 'temp.


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## MelodieOctavia (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh FFS.


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