# PS Vita suffers yet another sales humiliation



## Valwin (Jan 6, 2012)

> _Media Create figures are in for Japan for the last week of 2011, and it is bad news again for 'PS Vita' dropping again by almost half from the week before, even the old PSP outsoold the new PS Vita!_
> *This weeks sales charts from Media Create are out and once again the PS Vita has taken a beating slipping down the charts and being soundly beaten by the PSP with not a single PS Vita game in the top 20.*
> 
> *platforms Sales*
> ...



Source1
Source 2


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 6, 2012)

HOLY CRAP! A HANDHELD ISN'T SELLING WELL IN JAPAN (WHERE EVERYONE IS BUYING 3DS'S FOR THE COOL LIBRARY) WHAT A SHAAAAME!
[/sarcasm]

inb4 fanboyism about 3DS selling well.

Anyways, it's to be expected because 1, due to the limited economy not everyone can afford to buy 2 systems, 2, the 3DS came out first and a lot of people bought one, 3, the Vita's release library isn't exactly the best (but still good titles are there and will come). I'm sure when the Vita gets to the US next month sales will pick up.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2012)

We should probably merge all of OP's threads into one big report called "I'm going to inform you over and over that I don't like the Vita".


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## NatureMade (Jan 6, 2012)

If I'm reading this right, then the PSV sold 42k for this week alone. Better than it did opening week. Someone explain to me how this is bad?


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## Hop2089 (Jan 6, 2012)

Of course Vita is going to bomb in sales, No FF yet, No Tales of for 19 days, and no Monster Hunter.  There are no big selling titles for it as of today.

Also this has no figures for digital sales.

When did Japan start being so impatient over game sales anyway?


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## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2012)

NatureMade said:


> If I'm reading this right, then the PSV sold 42k for this week alone. Better than it did opening week. Someone explain to me how this is bad?


It's only bad because "It sold worse then the 3DS, durr, herp".



Hop2089 said:


> Vita is going to bomb in sales, No FF yet, No Tales of for 19 days, and no Monster Hunter.  There are no big selling titles for it as of today.



Uncharted, BlazBlue, Lord of Apocalypse, Shinobido 2, Touch my Katamari. Just you wait till Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, Wipeout and Little Big Planet, Tales on FF and Gravity Rush come out.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NatureMade said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm reading this right, then the PSV sold 42k for this week alone. Better than it did opening week. Someone explain to me how this is bad?
> ...


Fix'd it for you.


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## impizkit (Jan 6, 2012)

PSV success = released 3 years ago. Other than that, not possible.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2012)

impizkit said:


> PSV success = released 3 years ago. Other than that, not possible.


Perhaps what you said is true, but it will be a success nevertheless. Remember the PS3 haz no gaemz situation? Well, now it's second on the list from what I'm seeing. Selling better than cure for cancer. Sony knows their consoles are long-term investments, they know what they're doing and they know that there will be profits in the future when the library extends.


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## Snailface (Jan 6, 2012)

The truly concerning number here is not system sales, its that _it doesn't have a single game in the top 20._
Attach rate is everything since they're not making money on hardware.

Not trying to be alarmist, but this has to worrying for Sony.


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## Thesolcity (Jan 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> impizkit said:
> 
> 
> > PSV success = released 3 years ago. Other than that, not possible.
> ...



inb4 Vita is hacked just as bad as the PS3.


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## Joe88 (Jan 6, 2012)

NatureMade said:


> If I'm reading this right, then the PSV sold 42k for this week alone. Better than it did opening week. Someone explain to me how this is bad?


vita sold about 325000 during it opening week


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## Hop2089 (Jan 6, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NatureMade said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm reading this right, then the PSV sold 42k for this week alone. Better than it did opening week. Someone explain to me how this is bad?
> ...



I forgot about Gravity Rush, that's supposed to be a stellar title.  Anyway is LBP even popular in Japan, I know it will sell like hotcakes in the West but I'm just wondering if it is.


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## emigre (Jan 6, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > NatureMade said:
> ...



In fairness Japan's taste in games is usually pretty terrible when compared to the West.


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## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2012)

Outsoold?! Oh noe!


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## heartgold (Jan 6, 2012)

What? This isnt bad, at least its not selling for 8k weekly like the 3ds was at some point. Lol

Honestly i'm impressed with these sales and remember there's no killer games as of now.


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## prowler (Jan 6, 2012)

Snailface said:


> The truly concerning number here is not system sales, its that _it doesn't have a single game in the top 20._
> Attach rate is everything since they're not making money on hardware.
> 
> Not trying to be alarmist, but this has to worrying for Sony.


Are you forgetting that every game is on PSN?


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## Deleted User (Jan 6, 2012)

Well, I don't care, really.


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## Snailface (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't think anybody here can deny that losing Monster Hunter exclusivity was a bad move for Sony.

Sales will pick up eventually, but Sony could have done a lot better with their launch strategy.

Edit: Uncharted didn't chart, lulz.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2012)

...I need to do this before someone else gets the brilliant idea!


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## Ryupower (Jan 6, 2012)

didn't the 3ds  sales started off slow, as well?

when the right game/software came out
sales picked up

when the right game/software come out for the vita sales should pick-up


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## Zarcon (Jan 6, 2012)

Ryupower said:


> didn't the 3ds  sales started off slow, as well?
> 
> when the right game/software came out
> sales picked up
> ...


If you compare to the 3DS's launch and following weeks after, it still beat the Vita.
That's with the same price, worse hardware, and worse launch titles (arguably).

I'd almost be surprised the Vita is doing so poorly out the gate, but it was competing against a price slashed 3DS with a fairly decent library of games (in Japan) and Monster Hunter having just released like, a week before the Vita launched.
So really, this is to be expected.

I'm sure it'll pick up eventually. I just hope it does so soon.


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## zanfire (Jan 6, 2012)

dont you remember the prices on those memory cards? and the size of the games? there is no way tons of people decided to go all digital.


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## xist (Jan 6, 2012)

3DS suffers sales humiliation....
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6350/npd_behind_the_numbers_march_2011.php?print=1


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 6, 2012)

Snailface said:


> I don't think anybody here can deny that losing Monster Hunter exclusivity was a bad move for Sony.



It wasn't their decisions, the entire franchise is owned by Capcom. And they lost "exclusivity" when Tri came out. Even then, it's not like the PSP was only successful because of Monster Hunter in Japan. It had plenty of other system sellers, although Monster Hunter admittedly was the main one.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Snailface said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think anybody here can deny that losing Monster Hunter exclusivity was a bad move for Sony.
> ...


Who said they ever had any exclusivity to begin with? Fair play, most of the games were released for the PSP and the PS2, but only because the PS2 was in everyone's and their dog's house and the PSP was the only "capable enough" handheld to pull it off at the time the first 3 were released. Times changed though. Capcom takes care of their monnies, and trust me when I tell you that Vita will get Monster Hunter pretty damn soon.


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## qlum (Jan 6, 2012)

"(10:17:09 PM) *qlum: *the ds also outsold the 3ds at the start, the gba also outsold the ds at the start, the ps2 also outsold the *ps3* at the start, nothing new here"
still its high price point (considering you would most likely buy 16gb or at least 8gb memory storage) and its lack of games especially games appealing to japan may have something to do with it.


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## Janthran (Jan 6, 2012)

suprgamr232 said:


> HOLY CRAP! A HANDHELD ISN'T SELLING WELL IN JAPAN (WHERE EVERYONE IS BUYING 3DS'S FOR THE COOL LIBRARY) WHAT A SHAAAAME!
> [/sarcasm]
> 
> inb4 fanboyism about 3DS selling well.
> ...


4, Mariokart

Just saying


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## Snailface (Jan 6, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Snailface said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think anybody here can deny that losing Monster Hunter exclusivity was a bad move for Sony.
> ...


Sony could have bought Monster Hunter's exclusivity (maybe they tried?). I just always thought of Monster Hunter as the 'Pokemon of the PSP' and Sony would do whatever it took to keep it that way. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Sony just admitted that they simply won't ever pay for exclusives (unlike M$). I'm just saying this is one case where they should have made an exception to their corporate policy. Of course, maybe it's Capcom that won't tolerate exclusives, whatever.  Speculation is fun, isn't it?
(I need to play more games and stop worrying about this shit.  )


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## xist (Jan 6, 2012)

Snailface said:


> Sony could have bought Monster Hunter's exclusivity (maybe they tried?). I just always thought of Monster Hunter as the 'Pokemon of the PSP' and Sony would do whatever it took to keep it that way. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Sony just admitted that they simply won't ever pay for exclusives (unlike M$). I'm just saying this is one case where they should have made an exception to their corporate policy. Of course, maybe it's Capcom that won't tolerate exclusives, whatever.  Speculation is fun, isn't it?



Sony have almost literally no money at the moment...i doubt any offer they could sensibly make Capcom would have accepted.


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## NatureMade (Jan 6, 2012)

Joe88 said:


> NatureMade said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm reading this right, then the PSV sold 42k for this week alone. Better than it did opening week. Someone explain to me how this is bad?
> ...



I was afraid I was forgetting a 0 somewhere...LOL, Still, This really isn't that bad as far as sales go. And like it's already been said, Titles really push the Console's sales. Just look at what games came out for the 3DS [Two HUGE Mario Titles, Revalations is around the corner, Plus there's already a few solid games on the 3DS]

I actually just bought a 3DS myself, but does that mean I think the Vita is a failure? Hell no. It's selling just fine.


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## Rock Raiyu (Jan 6, 2012)

This is usually a common trend with all Playstation products. 

I'm sure the numbers will pick up when, like it has been stated before, more big name franchises appear on the system.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 6, 2012)

Come PSV! Go for a price drop


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 6, 2012)

Oh WOW I guess Japan in now the country that dictates whether or not products will do well in Global Markets. All Hali Japan


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## RoMee (Jan 6, 2012)

at least it's not as bad as the 3DS pathetic 4k, and was getting spanked left to right by the PSP in sales


PSP: 35,619
PS3: 18,338​
Wii: 17,004​
DS: 8,178​
*3DS: 4,132*
PS2: 1,529​
Xbox 360: 1,406​


http://playstationli...y-860-in-japan/


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## xist (Jan 7, 2012)

Rock Raiyu said:


> This is usually a common trend with all Playstation products.
> 
> I'm sure the numbers will pick up when, like it has been stated before, more big name franchises appear on the system.



In 2001 certain naysayers felt that the poor sales of the PS2 was going to sink Sony....


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## Hop2089 (Jan 7, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Oh WOW I guess Japan in now the country that dictates whether or not products will do well in Global Markets. All Hali Japan



That's been happening for decades although there were some errors over the years such as the Genesis/Mega Drive selling terribly in Japan but selling like hotcakes in NA/EU/AU and the Sega CD/Mega CD actually selling in NA/EU/AU briefly but not much at all in Japan.


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## insidexdeath (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm definitely picking up the Vita when the price drops just like I picked the 3DS when the price droped.

Honestly, the Vita is really over priced considering how much stuff you need to buy for it. The memory card alone is pretty expensive. Besides, the launch line up leans more towards the west, so this isn't surprising.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

insidexdeath said:


> I'm definitely picking up the Vita when the price drops just like I picked the 3DS when the price droped.
> 
> Honestly, the Vita is really over priced considering how much stuff you need to buy for it. The memory card alone is pretty expensive. Besides, the launch line up leans more towards the west, so this isn't surprising.


PS Vita's launch price is nearly exactly the same as 3DS's launch price while packing more/more powerful hardware from the start, you do know that? The price drop (if any) will be much less significant - they can't afford to sell the console any cheaper.

I agree about the line-up though. Gonna be a hit.


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## gameandmatch (Jan 7, 2012)

ok, sooo what I am seeing is....that vita is doing bad just like the 3ds did. okay and the point about this is to create a fanboy war? I got the 3ds when it was doing bad and probably will still buy the vita whenever I can regain money to get one.


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## xist (Jan 7, 2012)

In all probability you'll be waiting a while for the Vita price drop....whilst the 3DS is pretty lacking in spec, the Vita isn't and can sit on a relatively high cost because it's components can dictate that higher tag.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma at launch too....looking pretty nice....


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## insidexdeath (Jan 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> insidexdeath said:
> 
> 
> > I'm definitely picking up the Vita when the price drops just like I picked the 3DS when the price droped.
> ...



I know it's the same launch price, but does power really matter? Do you play games based on their graphics? 

If they can't sell it at a cheaper price, the least they could've done is solve the memory card issue, because honestly it wasn't necessary to begin with. Sony just packed it with the Vita to earn extra money.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

insidexdeath said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > insidexdeath said:
> ...


Oh my god, the graphics argument? Really?

Higher specs allow developers to create larger, prettier, more complex and generally "better" games, it's not always about the graphics, it's about the development time being greatly shortened since optimising for a stronger machine is quicker than for a slower one.


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## gameandmatch (Jan 7, 2012)

insidexdeath said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > insidexdeath said:
> ...



Memory card issue isn't going away. They need to get the money, that they would lose for making the vita and selling it at the current price, from  somewhere.


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## insidexdeath (Jan 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> insidexdeath said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



I'm not really trying to argue, I just want to make a point here. Sony could've avoided this by not selling over priced unnecessary crap which they're currently doing with the Memory Card.

The bold part proves my point.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

insidexdeath said:


> I'm not really trying to argue, I just want to make a point here. Sony could've avoided this by not selling over priced unnecessary crap which they're currently doing with the Memory Card.
> 
> The bold part proves my point.



No it doesn't, did you even read what I wrote? The graphics style doesn't necessarily have to change, but more resources allow for larger game world. It's called "substance".


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## gokujr1000 (Jan 7, 2012)

Didn't people worry about the 3DS bombing? Now look at it. I think when the Vita comes to US and Europe and has a better game library for all regions it's sales will begin to sky-rocket, all we need is Final Fantasy and the Japanese will go crazy...


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## The Milkman (Jan 7, 2012)

suprgamr232 said:


> HOLY CRAP! A HANDHELD ISN'T SELLING WELL IN JAPAN (WHERE EVERYONE IS BUYING 3DS'S FOR THE COOL LIBRARY) WHAT A SHAAAAME!
> [/sarcasm]
> 
> inb4 fanboyism about 3DS selling well.
> ...



Don't give that "bad economy. = low game sales" bullshit. Most people don't even buy two game systems no matter what. And saying the 3DS sold better because it was first is also bullshit, have you seen how many people were talking about waiting for the 3DS revision?
Do you think people who really wanted the vita would have just said, fuck it ill buy a 3DS. I don't think so. And the vita launch was miles better then the 3DS (it had a fucking Uncharted game.) 
It seems when someone says something bad about the 3DS its true but when its the Vita it suddenly becomes fanboy shit. The Vitas not selling well. Deal with it. The 3DS wasn't selling well and people delt with it.


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## thegame07 (Jan 7, 2012)

The problem with the ps vita is the price  It's mostly young teenagers and kids who buy handhelds afaik and for most of them £220 is out of their parents budget. If it got reduced to £150 I bet it would sell very very well. However the amount of tech that's built into the vita and how well made it is , It might be hard for them to compete with the 3ds on price.


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## QaisEmericAtwi (Jan 7, 2012)

Handheld history repeating itself. We all know the outcome.


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## damedus (Jan 7, 2012)

the vita will probably be just like the psp to me a big hunk of uncesary graphic power with lack of games. Sure ill buy it to play the 2 or 3 games a year that I like (if at all) but in the handheld systems the 3ds is still probably gona see most of my time. Besides playing rpgs I only look at fun games that do not involve fps or shooting crap and those have always been on the nintendo systems. Dont get me wrong id love the vita to go back to its ps1 and ps2 roots and be a rpg machine, but games these days seem to focus on dam FPS (reason why my xbox and ps3 mostly colect dust) than any other genre. Its games that make the consoles to me not the other way around, and Id rather have a low graphic with good story rpg with complex management systems over a pretty looking fps anyday, but sadly new gamers get into gaming via the easy to play fps and their easy to play mechanics. Hideo said it better when he said new ideas can't compete in todays gaming market...


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

damedus said:


> the vita will probably be just like the psp to me a big hunk of uncesary graphic power with lack of games.


This alone shows that you've never touched a PSP. Metal Gear Solid games, Monster Hunter games, God of War games, Loco Roco, Lumines, Persona games - the list goes on.


> Sure ill buy it to play the 2 or 3 games a year that I like (if at all) but in the handheld systems the 3ds is still probably gona see most of my time. Besides playing rpgs I only look at fun games that do not involve fps or shooting crap and those have always been on the nintendo systems.


Sorry, but if the PSP's lacking anything then it's FPS'es. 





> Dont get me wrong id love the vita to go back to its ps1 and ps2 roots and be a rpg machine, but games these days seem to focus on dam FPS (reason why my xbox and ps3 mostly colect dust) than any other genre.


Could you please name a few good FPS'es for the PSP for me? I really can't think of any good ones except Carnivores, and that's only because I loved the game on the PC. The DS has a galore of NSpace titles, at least.





> Its games that make the consoles to me not the other way around, and Id rather have a low graphic with good story rpg with complex management systems over a pretty looking fps anyday,


And you get plenty of that on the PSP - Phantasy Star, the forementioned Persona games, Final Fantast games and lots, lots more.





> but sadly new gamers get into gaming via the easy to play fps and their easy to play mechanics. Hideo said it better when he said new ideas can't compete in todays gaming market...


Explain "new idea". It's this indier then thou attitude that oozes from your post that gets me, you try to conceal clear fanboyism towards Nintendo merchandise but you do it poorly.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jan 7, 2012)

The Vita is a nice piece of hardware but its game library is pretty lacking at this point. Once it gets some of the big-budget games, the sales should increase a bit.



xist said:


> In all probability you'll be waiting a while for the Vita price drop....whilst the 3DS is pretty lacking in spec, the Vita isn't and can sit on a relatively high cost because it's components can dictate that higher tag.


Actually the 3DS was selling at a loss when it was priced at $250. Nintendo must be losing even more money at $169.


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## Valwin (Jan 7, 2012)

gokujr1000 said:


> Didn't people worry about the 3DS bombing? Now look at it. I think when the Vita comes to US and Europe and has a better game library for all regions it's sales will begin to sky-rocket, all we need is Final Fantasy and the Japanese will go crazy...



was it not the last FF game release in japan did really bad in sales ?


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

Valwin said:


> same japanese that   show that ff game that dint sell well ?


I have no idea what you just said. Rephrase this please.


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## KidIce (Jan 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh my god, the graphics argument? Really?
> 
> Higher specs allow developers to create larger, prettier, more complex and generally "better" games, it's not always about the graphics, it's about the development time being greatly shortened since optimising for a stronger machine is quicker than for a slower one.



Erm... No actually, more powerful machines and beefier media has greatly INCREASED development time and costs of producing games.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

KidIce said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh my god, the graphics argument? Really?
> ...


Development time can only decrease on stronger hardware. You're talking about making larger and more complex games with better graphics, sound, AI and whatnot - that extends development time and costs, and yes, it's obvious that devs want to spread their wings on stronger hardware, but that's not what I'm getting at.

The same piece of code can be compiled for a stronger console and a weaker console, but it's more likely that the weaker console will have issues if the code is complex - the stronger one will just swallow it because it can afford to waste resources. This is why there are slight differences between multiplat games - sometimes the code has to be altered and corners have to be cut, this is called "optimising".


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## Rock Raiyu (Jan 7, 2012)

xist said:


> Rock Raiyu said:
> 
> 
> > This is usually a common trend with all Playstation products.
> ...


That just means the PSV will be the PS2 second-coming.


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## gokujr1000 (Jan 7, 2012)

Valwin said:


> gokujr1000 said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't people worry about the 3DS bombing? Now look at it. I think when the Vita comes to US and Europe and has a better game library for all regions it's sales will begin to sky-rocket, all we need is Final Fantasy and the Japanese will go crazy...
> ...



I guess it depends on which FF game gets released.


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## SpaceJump (Jan 7, 2012)

Wow, Foxi. You are really hard at work here. Relax man 

Can't we just sum it up by saying the 3DS and the PSV are both failures so all can be happy?


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## Deleted member 473940 (Jan 7, 2012)

I am still buying one


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## KingVamp (Jan 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> Actually the 3DS was selling at a loss when it was priced at $250. Nintendo must be losing even more money at $169.



I'm going have to ask for a source.


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## Valwin (Jan 7, 2012)

SpaceJump said:


> Wow, Foxi. You are really hard at work here. Relax man
> 
> Can't we just sum it up by saying the 3DS and the PSV are both failures so all can be happy?



no because they are not aleast one of them


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## xist (Jan 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> Actually the 3DS was selling at a loss when it was priced at $250. Nintendo must be losing even more money at $169.



No it wasn't. It's only making a loss now after the price cut....at it's initial price it was the usual Nintendo story of hardware profitability.



> But Nintendo always strives for profitability right out of the gate. And while it had that at $249.99, the new price -- $169.99 in the United States and 15,000 yen in Japan (down from 25,000) -- won't provide it with that luxury, according to a report by Bloomberg Japan (as translated by Andriasang).


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Jan 7, 2012)

Snailface said:


> The truly concerning number here is not system sales, its that _it doesn't have a single game in the top 20._
> Attach rate is everything since they're not making money on hardware.
> 
> Not trying to be alarmist, but this has to worrying for Sony.


Let's hope they're worried enough to slash prices further


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## PyroSpark (Jan 7, 2012)

The thing I don't like about the vita, is that most of it's games are just PS3 ports.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

PyroSpark said:


> The thing I don't like about the vita, is that most of it's games are just PS3 ports.


...wut? Which ones, pray tell?

I hear this so often and when I look at the current Vita games list I literally *can't* see it.


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## PyroSpark (Jan 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> PyroSpark said:
> 
> 
> > The thing I don't like about the vita, is that most of it's games are just PS3 ports.
> ...



Blazblue, UMVC3, Metal Gear Solid HD collection, Disgaea 3 and Final Fantasy X HD, to name a few.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

PyroSpark said:


> Blazblue, UMVC3, Metal Gear Solid HD collection, Disgaea 3.



There's like 22 launch games and this is considered "most of the games"?

You need to get your math right.


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## BORTZ (Jan 7, 2012)

i just like the picture in the OP.


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## Wintrale (Jan 7, 2012)

He did say "to name a few".


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## PyroSpark (Jan 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> PyroSpark said:
> 
> 
> > Blazblue, UMVC3, Metal Gear Solid HD collection, Disgaea 3.
> ...



My math. Is UNPARALLELED. XD


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

PyroSpark said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > PyroSpark said:
> ...



I actually took the time to *check* which games will and which won't be available on the PS3, the list features released AND future games, and here it is...

*Not Available on the PS3:*
Army Corps of Hell
Asphalt Injection
Badman 3 (Untitled)
Bioshock (Untitled)
Broken
Call of Duty (Untitled)
DJMax Technika
Doctor Who: The Eternity Clock
Dream Club Zero
Dynasty Warriors Next
Escape Plan
F1 2011
Gravity Rush
Great Little War Game
Untitled Hideo Kojima game
Everybody's Golf 6
Killzone
Kyoukugen Dasshutsu ADV: Zennin Shiboudesu
Lego Batman 2: DC Superheroes
LittleBigPlanet
Little Busters! Converted Edition
Little Deviants
Little King's Story 2
Lord of Apocalypse
Lumines Electronic Symphony
ModNation Racers: Road Trip
Mortal Kombat Vita
Mr Ink Jet
Untitled Nihon Falcom game
Otomedius Excellent
Persona 4: The Golden
Puddle
Shin Megami Tensei (working title)
Ragnarok Odyssey
Reality Fighters
Resistance: Burning Skies
Ridge Racer
Samurai & Dragons
Shinobido 2: Tales of the Ninja
Silent Hill: Book of Memories
Smart As
Sound Shapes
StarDrone Extreme
Sumioni
Super Monkey Ball Vita
Super Stardust Delta
Supremacy MMA: Unrestricted
Tales from Space: Mutant Blobs Attack
Tales of Innocence R
Time Travelers
Twisted Metal: Ultimate Sweet Version
Touch My Katamari
Uncharted: Golden Abyss
Unit 13
Wipeout 2048
Ys IV


*Available on PS3:*
Ben 10: Galactic Racing
BlazBlue: Continuum Shift
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention
Dragon's Crown
Dungeon Defenders
Dungeon Hunter: Alliance
Dust 514
FIFA Football (?)
Final Fantasy X
Gradius Collection (?)
Hustle Kings
Lego Harry Potter: Years 5–7
Malicious
Metal Gear Solid HD Collection
Michael Jackson: The Experience
MLB 12: The Show
Moe Moe Daisensou * Gendaiban++
MotorStorm: RC
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee HD
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath HD
Plants vs. Zombies
Rayman Origins
Rugby Challenge
Ruin
Shin Kamaitachi no Yoru: 11ninme no Suspect
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
Street Fighter X Tekken
Top Darts
Virtua Tennis 4: World Tour Edition
Zone of the Enders HD Collection

Correct me if I'm wrong with any of those. In any case, it looks more like a 1/3 then "most".


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## xist (Jan 7, 2012)

PyroSpark said:


> The thing I don't like about the vita, is that most of it's games are just PS3 ports.



To be fair to this guy he doesn't like the 3DS either since it's just as chock full of ports...


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

xist said:


> PyroSpark said:
> 
> 
> > The thing I don't like about the vita, is that most of it's games are just PS3 ports.
> ...


Good. Hate for ports should be in all of our hearts.


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## xist (Jan 7, 2012)

Ultimately if you're going to hate ports from a home console to a portable one (and on the proviso that they are done well) it's your loss. Who doesn't want some of those games on hand for journeys or during lunch breaks? Whilst original IP's are great, i'd rather have a port of a great game than a second rate original.....


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

xist said:


> Ultimately if you're going to hate ports from a home console to a portable one (and on the proviso that they are done well) it's your loss. Who doesn't want some of those games on hand for journeys or during lunch breaks? Whilst original IP's are great, i'd rather have a port of a great game than a second rate original.....


I honestly believe that "port-ability" should be an additional feature of the game rather than a separate game altogether. PS3 BluRay discs have 12GB capacity, don't tell me that 3GB couldn't be there for just the "portability's sake". I see no reason for buying the same game twice just to play it "at home" and "on the bus", I should be given this possibility for free because I already own the damned game.

Games that compliment eachother via means of connectivity? Now that's another story entirely! Sonic Adventure 2 Battle + Sonic Advance, to name one. Chao breading was awesome and both games were great by their own merits. That's what Foxi likes.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

xist said:


> Ultimately if you're going to hate ports from a home console to a portable one (and on the proviso that they are done well) it's your loss. Who doesn't want some of those games on hand for journeys or during lunch breaks? Whilst original IP's are great, i'd rather have a port of a great game than a second rate original.....



Well it depends on the game. Handheld games can't just be console games. They have to be tailored for a handheld. If you take a highly cinematic game (like Metal Gear Solid) and just take it to a handheld raw without any tailoring, it'll most certainly be poor. That's why when they made Portable Ops and Peace Walker, they developed it with a handheld in mind. Cutscenes can be longish but they aren't as long as the main series games (plus they're skippable outside of QTE parts and I believe they're rewatchable as well) and missions are broken down into chunks instead of having it all flow in a single stream. Mind you a game like, say, Super Mario Galaxy would work relatively well if ported since it's already broken down into "chunks" that are easily digestible for handheld gaming.

Although really, would you rather replay the same game or have a sequel that, while similar, still has a different storyline/levels/maybe even a few new gameplay elements? I'd probably go with the latter.


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## xist (Jan 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well it depends on the game. Handheld games can't just be console games. They have to be tailored for a handheld. If you take a highly cinematic game (like Metal Gear Solid) and just take it to a handheld raw without any tailoring, it'll most certainly be poor. That's why when they made Portable Ops and Peace Walker, they developed it with a handheld in mind. Cutscenes can be longish but they aren't as long as the main series games (plus they're skippable outside of QTE parts and I believe they're rewatchable as well) and missions are broken down into chunks instead of having it all flow in a single stream.



And yet the Playstation Classic Metal Gear Solid is an amazing portable experience on the PSP because you can save at any point via the codec. It wasn't developed for a portable but it works fine, and with the insta-sleep of most portables nowadays cut-scenes are also no problem.

The problem with having both versions of a game on a single media is that just because it's a port doesn't mean it's easy to create. I have no problem buying a game twice if i want it on the big screen and have it on a portable (see Tales of the Abyss) but there are some games which might work better on one format over another and i'd rather have each version have it's own development cycle than compromise quality of them both.


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## Linkiboy (Jan 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> KidIce said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


You might be good at justifying your implied future purchase, but don't use arguments that involve development logistics (neither financial nor code-related)

just

don't.

For the sanity of those who do know what they're talking about.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 7, 2012)

Linkiboy said:


> You might be good at justifying your implied future purchase, but don't use arguments that involve development logistics (neither financial nor code-related)
> 
> just
> 
> ...


And you for one obviously have the vaguest idea of what's being discussed, hum?

The truth is that games are usually made to reach the peak potential of a given platform (unless they're meant to be mini-games), and if they're multiplat, some cuts need to be made on platforms that are weaker. Those include minor engine tweaks, lowering the resolution of textures or the complexity of models, but those changes are there, and if you disagree to this simple truth then it's likely that we have nothing to talk about, really.

"Bigger/Stronger is better" in the eyes of a developer, and that's that.


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## Linkiboy (Jan 8, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Linkiboy said:
> 
> 
> > You might be good at justifying your implied future purchase, but don't use arguments that involve development logistics (neither financial nor code-related)
> ...


Oh yeah? Is that why companies dread moving onto new platforms and often lose tons of employees in the process? Is that why the superior hardware of the PS3 meant that PS3 versions of games were superior?

The complex/better hardware makes the development process more convoluted, therefore more costly.

Multiplatform games generally start out on the weaker platform (exception: games starting out as exclusive and move to other platforms). Look at this generation for example. 360 has inferior hardware to the PS3, yet in their earlier years PS3 had always inferior versions of multiplatform games (GTA4 anyone?)

You don't even have to be a developer to realise that your "simple truth" is much more deep than it appears to be.

And besides... you contradicted yourself anyway. If your claim of games are made to be run at the peak of their hardware is true, this means that more resources have to be made and more code has to be written for this to happen. (This would be a "simple truth" of development.) And earlier you said that the increased power of the platform would not raise development costs, because they have more room to work in. But how is this possible if games are made to run at the peak fo their hardware? It's not. derp.

I don't know what you do for a living, but you're obviously not a developer or a manager. If you really want to know my qualifications on speaking for this matter I'll be pompous and list them.


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## DiscostewSM (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that when developing anything, you have to start somewhere, and starting at the bottom with just the necessities and going up from there is the logical choice. throwing everything at it and then working your way through development by cutting out content is just a waste of time.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2012)

Linkiboy said:


> And besides... you contradicted yourself anyway. If your claim of games are made to be run at the peak of their hardware is true, this means that more resources have to be made and more code has to be written for this to happen. (This would be a "simple truth" of development.) And earlier you said that the increased power of the platform would not raise development costs, because they have more room to work in. But how is this possible if games are made to run at the peak fo their hardware? It's not. derp.
> 
> I don't know what you do for a living, but you're obviously not a developer or a manager. If you really want to know my qualifications on speaking for this matter I'll be pompous and list them.


I was reffering to compiling one and exactly the same piece of code for two different platforms, not the general meanders of coding. Optimizing takes alot of time and creates unnecessary costs.

As I said before, it's not the fact that "better hardware" produces issues with programming and thus becomes more tedious - having more and more advanced code being programmed is a natural occourence and has little to do with hardware advancements - programmers would've released revisions upon revisions of their code making it better and better overtime regardless of whether or not the console or PC they're programming for is a powerhorse or not - it's just that HAVING those resources is better than not having them at all. If you purposely try to misread what I wrote, then yes, you may treat that as a fallacy. Unfortunatelly it's not - you're touching an unrelated issue.

*EDIT: *If people shared the ridiculous opinion of "y'know what? I think we have enough advancements in technology, we should stop creating newer, better hardware" eventually we'd hit a wall where nothing "better", "bigger", "more complex" can be created. Humans naturaly feel a drive towards progress and programmers *desire* more and more resources to make their ideas come true. If you're trying to blatantly say "Noes, that's not how it works" then you're making yourself look silly.

It's not the hardware itself that dictates the production costs, but the ambition of the creators, artists and studios. The hardware only enables (or doesn't) them to make what they imagined come true. You have to see a distinction between a direct consequence (same code can be compiled with less optimizations) and an indirect consequence (more advanced code and more content can be included).


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## BORTZ (Jan 8, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> xist said:
> 
> 
> > PyroSpark said:
> ...


Whats wrong with a good port?


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## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2012)

BortzANATOR said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > xist said:
> ...


What's a good port(Also, what's it for when you played the original)?


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## BORTZ (Jan 8, 2012)

i dont know, i grew up on ports. I only had handhelds. Thats how i played yoshi's island for the first time, super mario world, super mario bros. 2, 3. Chrono trigger yata yata yata.


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## PyroSpark (Jan 8, 2012)

xist said:


> PyroSpark said:
> 
> 
> > The thing I don't like about the vita, is that most of it's games are just PS3 ports.
> ...



Nah. The 3DS is alright. Even though it has like 4 ports that I can think of. Meh.


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## jonesman99 (Jan 8, 2012)

Besides, I wouldnt mind having ports of the Entire Megaman X series collection on the Vita, if that were to happen, that would be a purchase from me. But knowing Capcom and their "motives" right now, I don't think its going to happen.

And as for good ports, I liked Megaman Maverick Hunter X. Granted it did have really clunky controls, but that didnt stop me from enjoying it. Its all about preference. I didn't get to spend a lot of time with the PSP I had, but the time I did have it I had fun with it.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2012)

Myeh. I chose not to give the Portendo 3DS any praise until I am 100% certain that MGS3 3D isn't all fcuked up like I assume it is, Revelations will turn out to be pleasant and Monster Hunter 4 is released. Right now the first images that come to my mind when I think "3DS" is "Old games in HD, most notably N64 ones".

I mean, c'mon... OOT3D (which isn't a port, apparently, but isn't far from it either), StarFox3D, Street Fighter 4 3D, Metal Gear Solid 3 3D (which admittedly isn't a port, but still), Rayman, Devil Survivor, Tales of the Abyss, Conduit 3DS (comming up soon), Monster Hunter Tri... sometimes you get the feeling that a group of game developers got together and decided "you know what? Fcuk it, let's just re-release stuff - people won't know any better anyways, they'll lap it up".


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## DarkStriker (Jan 8, 2012)

Really remakes>port with ports being released on things like eShop, PSN etc etc.


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## Linkiboy (Jan 8, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Linkiboy said:
> 
> 
> > And besides... you contradicted yourself anyway. If your claim of games are made to be run at the peak of their hardware is true, this means that more resources have to be made and more code has to be written for this to happen. (This would be a "simple truth" of development.) And earlier you said that the increased power of the platform would not raise development costs, because they have more room to work in. But how is this possible if games are made to run at the peak fo their hardware? It's not. derp.
> ...


I think you're the one reading my post wrong, or just missing some fundamental information.

_"As I said before, it's not the fact that "better hardware" produces issues with programming and thus becomes more tedious"_ - wrong. This is a fact and is not up for debate. >_> I fail to see how you don't understand this. As a single example, if you have a game console with multiple cores (PS3 has 1 core and 7 SPE subcores) each core will have to be managed manually. So when you have a tri-core system like the 360, and move code from it to the PS3's more adundant but less capable cores, (and this is a bit silly example) it will be like trying to put a cake cut into the 3 slices in 8 small boxes. Where the boxes are in two different sizes. Stupid example, but it illustrates how ports run worse on PS3 though it has more theoretical power.

As far as game programming goes, you _can't_ compile the exact same piece of code for two different platforms, so I don't know what you're trying to compare. (Ports still take hundreds of hours of (re)programming at least and you will end up with a non-optimized version.)

In an ideal world, the hardware would not dictate cost of development, but rather ambition as you said. That is not however the case. You have to make games reach a certain production level so they have a chance at competing in the market. That is why so much restructuring has to be done in the financial department, and that's why so many companies have merged together. (On a side note: It is for this reason a market for middleware was created (example: game engines) and they are not cheap. For instance, under certain terms, Unreal Engine 3's licensing cost for video games is 25% of revenue. That is a lot of money.)

Hopefully you can put the two together and realise what I'm saying. I do understand the argument you're trying to make, I really do, but it just doesn't work that way (for the aforementioned reasons). You're good at arguing, but you don't have your facts straight.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2012)

I suppose there's a grain of truth in both what you're saying and what I'm saying - I was always taught that the truth lies somewhere in-between. With today's SDK's, optimising is greatly simplified, and that obviously sprouts from technological advancements. To add to that, platforms are more advanced, so technically, resource management is simplier, but, as you said, games become bigger and bigger, making it a viscious cycle. I see what you're trying to say and I have to agree that you can't just copy-paste the entire code from one platform to another, but some parts of it can actually be "transplanted" like that if they're using standarized libraries, which is another wonderful thing.

The PS3 does have more power, but I have to agree that it suffers from "The Saturn Problem" - its hardware built is too complex for its own good, but the SDK and devkit bundled with it at least helps solving some of those issues.

I do tend to think in "the ideal world", I apologize for that. Like I said, valid points were risen in the discussion and we both see our points - better than nothing, right?


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## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2012)

You know why the vita wouldn't fail? Because Sony won't let it. That all it is to it.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jan 8, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> You know why the vita wouldn't fail? Because Sony won't let it. That all it is to it.


You know why the nGage wouldn't fail? Because Nokia won't let it. That all it is to it.
You know why the Virtual Boy wouldn't fail? Because Nintendo won't let it. That all it is to it.
You know why the Pippin wouldn't fail? Because Apple won't let it. That all it is to it.


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## KingVamp (Jan 8, 2012)

soulx said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > You know why the vita wouldn't fail? Because Sony won't let it. That all it is to it.
> ...


While I see your point, all those are old and I just didn't see it in this day and age for Sony or Nintendo
with all their experience, to mess up that badly.

I mean what could/would Sony do if it fails?


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 8, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> I mean what could/would Sony do if it fails?


copy the 3ds


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## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > KingVamp said:
> ...


They'll continue selling TV's, laptops, smartphones, music, movies... (goes on for, like, forever)


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## xist (Jan 8, 2012)

Actually there is a lot of truth in what some trolls have been saying....Sony is in a very bad way financially at the moment. They're counting on the Vita being a success to secure a tiny bit of their financial spiralling.

I don't expect them to ensure the Vita succeeds no matter what, but what i do expect is a level of support that the PSP never saw to try and raise consumer awareness and drive sales.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 8, 2012)

wait until it's hacked


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## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2012)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> wait until it's hacked


Electronic sales skyrocket + Sony's software division earns nothing at all = Same difference, if not worse then before.

It needs to be "hackable with a certain difficulty curve" so that 3rd party doesn't back out of the deal (unless the 3DS gets hacked aswell) and ROM kids won't glomp it.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > wait until it's hacked
> ...



IE - so make sure that it can't pirate shit too early pretty much.


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## DS1 (Jan 9, 2012)

UGHHHHH no more dumb stories until 2013! For the sake of anyone who enjoys gaming, let's all hope the Vita hits its stride the same way the PSP did (late in life, mostly through JP releases). Ditto the 3DS, which has plenty of good stuff on the horizon, though not enough US release dates... (DAMN YOU REGION LOCKING!!!)


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2012)

DS1 said:


> UGHHHHH no more dumb stories until 2013! For the sake of anyone who enjoys gaming, let's all hope the Vita hits its stride the same way the PSP did (late in life, mostly through JP releases). Ditto the 3DS, which has plenty of good stuff on the horizon, though not enough US release dates... (DAMN YOU REGION LOCKING!!!)



Off Topic - I've fucking had it up to here with this site double quoting every fucking quote I fucking quote

on topic - The vita I could give a rats ass about. Hack dat shit! 

it's the 3DS I don't want hacked.....so much potential....IF developers don't fuck people over the pay DLC (like some iOS and Android devs)


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## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2012)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> The vita I could give a rats ass about. Hack dat shit!
> 
> it's the 3DS I don't want hacked.....so much potential....IF developers don't fuck people over the pay DLC (like some iOS and Android devs)


What exactly differentiates the 3DS and the Vita other than the 3D screen? (And the fact that Vita has more features built-in, but let's focus on the 3DS for now)


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > The vita I could give a rats ass about. Hack dat shit!
> ...




BIAS ALERT: cause I like Nintendo and....*checks bottom of signature* ...

yea...that


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## xist (Jan 9, 2012)

The Vita has more potential to offer for developers? (this is both good and bad...)

The Vita and 3DS will both fall prey to ports, whereas the Vita will probably get PS3 ports whilst the 3DS will get previous generations games with 3D effects tacked on.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2012)

xist said:


> The Vita has more potential to offer for developers? (this is both good and bad...)
> 
> ....... the 3DS will get previous generations games with 3D effects tacked on.


ala: Ocarina of Time and Starfox 64.

and we're just gettin' started!! ;D


Wait....i'm off topic arn't I?


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## DS1 (Jan 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> stanleyopar2000 said:
> 
> 
> > The vita I could give a rats ass about. Hack dat shit!
> ...



Release lists, some devs I like support 3DS, some support Vita. Few support both, which makes me sad, because I love my PSP and DS equally... should be the same for the next gen.

HACK THE 3DS so I can play imports. Don't care about anything else.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 9, 2012)

DS1 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > stanleyopar2000 said:
> ...




YES. FUCK REGION LOCK.

I want to play the damn Sega Miku Vocaloid game!! :'(


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## Zalda (Jan 10, 2012)

500k sold according to sony on the ces, not that bad, thye can live with it


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## omgpwn666 (Jan 10, 2012)

This system is still amazing. I would love to see the AR and game visuals most of all.


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