# nesDS and DSi XL LCD Burn-in?



## Another World (Nov 3, 2010)

*nesDS and DSi XL LCD Burn-in?*
Speculation and faulty testing



There have been some recent rumors circulating that NesDS will, without a doubt, cause burn-in to the DSi XL’s LCD screen. Most of the reports have been traced to speculation with no facts to back up this claim. Recently, however, I came across a post on the SC Forum stating that this happens *when NesDS is paused for 30 minutes*. 

If we were to assume that the DSi XL in question was not faulty to begin with then the only factual information that came come from this is that pausing software for 30 minutes can cause pixel burn-in. There is no factual information to point to NesDS as the cause. 

What is required is actual empirical data as the result of controlled testing on a large number of DSi (XL/LL) units purchased from different places and tested using different software. The result of which may be that anything left on pause for 30 minutes may causes burn-in on certain DSi (XL/LL) LCD screens.

Personally, I have used NesDS on my XL since day one and have never had an issue with it. I also have not paused game emulation for any length of time. Save-states and powering off have been my saving grace, so-to-speak.

Please use the discussion link to chime in with your thoughts about this. It would be nice to see some discussion about LCD burn-in and the facts surrounding such an event.






 SC Forum Post





 LCD Tester Download


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## yuyuyup (Nov 3, 2010)

sounds bullshit


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## Covarr (Nov 3, 2010)

LCD Burn-in? Is there even such a thing? I mean, it can definitely happen short-term, but I'm fairly certain that it fades after a short while.


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## trumpet-205 (Nov 3, 2010)

Screen burn-in can happen on everything. CRT, LCD, and plasma all can suffer screen burn-in. Though a screen burn-in for just 30 minutes sounds untrue.


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## nl255 (Nov 3, 2010)

trumpet-205 said:
			
		

> Screen burn-in can happen on everything. CRT, LCD, and plasma all can suffer screen burn-in. Though a screen burn-in for just 30 minutes sounds untrue.



I was the one who did the testing and I can confirm that it is true, at least for my blue DSi XL purchased just after the US price drop.  15 minutes of Contra (picked because Contra 4 includes an emulated Contra 1, in case I had to return it to the store) on pause did not do it but 30 did.  Fortunately, running the LCD tester at maximum speed I have tested this twice, but will not be doing further tests as it is well past the return period.  The entire reason I posted the thread was to try to collect more data.  

As for just not pausing, that might not work as some games like Super Mario 3 have a static status bar at the bottom (or top) of the screen and might cause the same problems.  I figured putting it on pause was the easiest way to simulate that.  None of my other LCD screens have the problem with burn in happening in only 30 minutes, including my PSP (2000, TA088v2) or LCD TV (Samsung LN26A330).


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## jeklnoo (Nov 3, 2010)

I don't think LCD can get permanent burn-in, it's just not how the tech works. (not counting stuck pixels of course, that's something completely different). I have heard of temporary burn-in on LCD though, but it goes away with just a little use or leaving the screen off for a while.


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## nl255 (Nov 3, 2010)

jeklnoo said:
			
		

> I don't think LCD can get permanent burn-in, it's just not how the tech works. (not counting stuck pixels of course, that's something completely different). I have heard of temporary burn-in on LCD though, but it goes away with just a little use or leaving the screen off for a while.



Well, in my experiences you can get rid of the burn in (image retention, to be exact) by using that lcd tester (which cycles between the different colors) at maximum speed for a while.  I did not test to see if it would go away on it's own, though some people have said that it did not (but did not try the LCD stuck pixel fixer thing).  I just wish that when someone says that nesDS messed up their XL they would include what they were doing at the time and what steps if any they took to fix it (or how long they waited to let it go away on it's own) rather than just "it messed up my screen".


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## shakirmoledina (Nov 3, 2010)

seriously? and tht even only with nesDS? maybe it leaves a little mark but i dont think (though i aint tht knowledgeable) the lcd screen is tht weak


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## YayMii (Nov 3, 2010)

Thanks for helping me overcome my nesDSphobia.


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## Another World (Nov 3, 2010)

there is no way this is because of nesDS. you need to test on your XL using a NDS ROM, Moonshell, anything that can be paused to a static screen. try another EMU like SNES, Linx, GBx, etc. just let it sit there for 30 min and see if it happens. There is nothing in nesDS that causes it to "use" the screen harder than the next application. the news post was done to make the point that this can't be nesDS related, it must be the LCD screens. i'm not saying it is only your problem and i'm not saying that you are not telling the truth. 

i'm saying its a problem with the LCDs not the specific homebrew you are using (IE: nesDS).

-another world


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## jceggbert5 (Nov 3, 2010)

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!  I first heard not to use it on the DSiXL on the SCDS2 Plugins thread, and Googled it, with scary results.

Now I know that I'm safe!

** Jceggbert5* goes put a bunch of NES ROMS and the NESDS Plugin on his SCDS2's MicroSDHC


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## CannonFoddr (Nov 3, 2010)

jceggbert5 said:
			
		

> Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!  I first heard not to use it on the DSiXL on the SCDS2 Plugins thread


 Yep blame me for that - I read a rumor in another forum, Googled it & got scared myself (even though I don't have a XL) - so posted it in the plugin post for others as a warning to watch out for it

It would be a good idea to get some actual facts over it instead of the rumors


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## wolfmanz51 (Nov 3, 2010)

i havent had any issue with this and i played all the way through several nes using nesDS games on my US launch XLon both and acekard and recently a Supercard DS two sounds to me like anyone who would have this issue would get a broken screen eventually anyways.


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## Arm73 (Nov 3, 2010)

Another World said:
			
		

> there is no way this is because of nesDS. you need to test on your XL using a NDS ROM, Moonshell, anything that can be paused to a static screen. try another EMU like SNES, Linx, GBx, etc. just let it sit there for 30 min and see if it happens. There is nothing in nesDS that causes it to "use" the screen harder than the next application. the news post was done to make the point that this can't be nesDS related, it must be the LCD screens. i'm not saying it is only your problem and i'm not saying that you are not telling the truth.
> 
> i'm saying its a problem with the LCDs not the specific homebrew you are using (IE: nesDS).
> 
> -another world



Doesn't NesDS use some tricks to slightly adjust the refresh rate of the LCD so that is closely emulates the output of the original system, in order to have smoother/tearless scrollings ?
That kind of technique is implemented in other emulators that I know of ( ZXDS explicitly forces  the LCD refresh rate at 50hz to match the original framerates of the original PAL machine ) so maybe that's it.
Pausing the DS with some application that runs at a different, non-standard refresh rate, can cause problems.


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## alidsl (Nov 3, 2010)

Good to know a proper factual basis, not just on rumours. Some said it was a problem with NesDS being a plug-in on the DStwo, not on any flashcart


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## neochronomo (Nov 3, 2010)

I believe I was the first person to warn people of this on the SCDS2 forums (I didn't see any other thread on it, anyway), and here's basically what happened to me:

_I was playing Legend of Zelda on NesDS (using my SCDS2 on my DSiXL of course), repeatedly loading and saving states. Nothing happened the first 50 times I did this, but this specific time I went to save a state, the screen froze. When I restarted my DSiXL, there was screen burn. I then took the device to Best Buy to trade it in for a new one, hoping it was something wrong with the device itself and not the SCDS2 or NesDS. By the time I got there though, the clerk recognized that the burn had faded a bit, so....it's likely that if you wait a few hours, it'll go away, but I'm not sure; I know next to nothing about LCDs._

I'm pretty sure I didn't claim that NesDS was NECESSARILY the cause though. I'm sure I just told the above story and cautioned people. I've been too scared to try NesDS since though, so this thread is very reassuring, and I can't wait to get back to defeating Ganon!


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## JonthanD (Nov 3, 2010)

neochronomo said:
			
		

> I believe I was the first person to warn people of this on the SCDS2 forums (I didn't see any other thread on it, anyway), and here's basically what happened to me:
> 
> _I was playing Legend of Zelda on NesDS (using my SCDS2 on my DSiXL of course), repeatedly loading and saving states. Nothing happened the first 50 times I did this, but this specific time I went to save a state, the screen froze. When I restarted my DSiXL, there was screen burn. I then took the device to Best Buy to trade it in for a new one, hoping it was something wrong with the device itself and not the SCDS2 or NesDS. By the time I got there though, the clerk recognized that the burn had faded a bit, so....it's likely that if you wait a few hours, it'll go away, but I'm not sure; I know next to nothing about LCDs._
> 
> I'm pretty sure I didn't claim that NesDS was NECESSARILY the cause though. I'm sure I just told the above story and cautioned people. I've been too scared to try NesDS since though, so this thread is very reassuring, and I can't wait to get back to defeating Ganon!




Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about LCD burn in, I have seen hundreds of CRT's with burn in but so far not one single LCD. 
I must say though that even with the CRT's that the only consistent burn in problems I witnessed where with arcade machines or strong magnets being held on the screen for too long. 

I am not saying that LCD burn in can't happen, I am just saying I have yet to witness it myself.

This was a short easy to understand and informative read.

http://www.techlore.com/article/10099/Do-LCD-TVs-Burn-In-/


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## MarcusRaven (Nov 3, 2010)

http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=258226&hl=

Yeah, I've actually had a similar issue with my XL. Hasn't really happened now that I finally got an EZFlash-Vi for my wife. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only play Picross3D a little bit here and there now.


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## Another World (Nov 4, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Doesn't NesDS use some tricks to slightly adjust the refresh rate of the LCD so that is closely emulates the output of the original system, in order to have smoother/tearless scrollings ?
> That kind of technique is implemented in other emulators that I know of ( ZXDS explicitly forces  the LCD refresh rate at 50hz to match the original framerates of the original PAL machine ) so maybe that's it.
> Pausing the DS with some application that runs at a different, non-standard refresh rate, can cause problems.



i do not remember reading anything about that. i will try to get in touch with dwedit who should have some more insight, now that loopy is MIA.

-another world


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## CannonFoddr (Nov 4, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Doesn't NesDS use some tricks to slightly adjust the refresh rate of the LCD so that is closely emulates the output of the original system, in order to have smoother/tearless scrollings ?
> That kind of technique is implemented in other emulators that I know of ( ZXDS explicitly forces  the LCD refresh rate at 50hz to match the original framerates of the original PAL machine ) so maybe that's it.
> Pausing the DS with some application that runs at a different, non-standard refresh rate, can cause problems.


Yep This is what I read as well so it'll be nice if Another World does get in contact with the developers to see if this fact is true or not, although one of the posts I read about something like this stated the following:- (this contains 2 posts)



Spoiler



There is one way for software to damage the screen: if it forces the refresh rate to something different (say, to match a console's refresh rate) then it can damage it.So, maybe NesDS does that... I'd doubt it though.


Well my favorite emulator, ZXDS does that. I mean it changes the refresh rate to 50hz so that it can match the original output of the Spectrum.
It looked fine on the DSL but I see a little shadow on the DSiXL when on the main menu ( white background of the 128K menu), so I'm starting to worry.


 So maybe it's not just NesDS but all emulators - & perhaps it's only more noticeable on the XL rather than the Phat/Lite's ??


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## N00ByBo0 (Nov 4, 2010)

I can confirm I have problems with this too on other emulators.

Try to play lameboy and some rom, pause the emulator, put the light on the highest and wait for like 20 min. Press the power button and you will see your screen is still there for a split second.

Lameboy also have a touchscreen function. Put it on touch screen and do the same.. the same thing happens!

The screen from the game you played stay for a long time.. however I never had a pernamently burn yet.

* I only had this with the *DSIXL*


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## Another World (Nov 4, 2010)

at least this thread is starting to accomplish what i set out for it to do. we are hearing that this happens with other emulation. proving this isn't a nesDS problem. i don't want users to get scared of emulation on their XL because of 1 or 2 threads around the internet. hopefully they will find this one and learn that the problems happen if you pause your game for a length of time. 

i'm waiting for a response from dwedit. hopefully he writes back.

-another world


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## neochronomo (Nov 5, 2010)

Another World said:
			
		

> hopefully they will find this one and learn that the problems happen if you pause your game for a length of time.


My anecdote I posted above had nothing to do with pausing. Just saying.


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## ShinyLatios (Nov 5, 2010)

trumpet-205 said:
			
		

> Screen burn-in can happen on everything. CRT, LCD, and plasma all can suffer screen burn-in. Though a screen burn-in for just 30 minutes sounds untrue.



Well I had this too... I was playing with NesDS on a friends house, then this happened. I didn't know what it was and thought my DSIXL was faulty, so when we were at the store, he said that there was nothing wrong. and guess what? it was gone...


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## Snailface (Nov 8, 2010)

I've had a couple of instances of burn-in with my XL (ex. stationary white text in DQ9). Fortunately, the issue goes away with a few hours of game play.  Thanks to the graphics gods for that, I love my XL.


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## MarcusRaven (Nov 10, 2010)

A bit of an update, I've had the same thing happen with the on screen health bar and such for Shantae: Risky's Revenge, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with Flash Carts or emulation. Just the XL screen. So it just seems to be something with the screens itself, not the software or carts. I know this feels like it should be good news, but its happening to me so its bittersweet. >.


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## SergeXVI (Dec 5, 2010)

I know this is old, but I thought I'd chime in with my experience. I had this happen to me on the new 25th anniversary Mario DSi XL, when using nesDS to play Castlevania with save states. I used the pixel fixer for an hour and everything was fixed for the most part.


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## CannonFoddr (Dec 5, 2010)

SergeXVI said:
			
		

> I know this is old, but I thought I'd chime in with my experience. I had this happen to me on the new 25th anniversary Mario DSi XL, when using nesDS to play Castlevania with save states. I used the pixel fixer for an hour and everything was fixed for the most part.


'For the most part' - so what about the rest of it ???


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## spinal_cord (Dec 11, 2010)

If anyone is having screen-burn issues with any games on the DSiXL (or any ds) perhaps you could give my 'ghost buster' program a try...

http://spinalcode.co.uk/ds/ghostbuster/

It would be good to know if it actually works or not.

Just load it up and leave it running for a while, maybe half an hour or so, with the ds open (closing will initiate sleep mode which is no good for this).


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## 75UR15 (Feb 14, 2011)

I had this problem on my dsi xl...didn't realize what the "lines" were at first, but after I reset it they appeared better, so I kept hitting the reset button and the lines stood out enough to recognize them.  They were the lines from the battle screen of Final Fantasy I.  Running ds screen tester now.  10mins or so in and the lines are greatly reduced.  I have to look VERY closely (on the tester black screen) to see them at all, 10-20 more I expect them to be gone.

edit 20-30ish now the lines are gone on the tester, but after resetting again I could see them.  They now only appear when i hit that power button for a reset, not when I first turn it on or do anything else.  Gonna run that tester till the battery dies to see if that helps any.

edit 2
also for a note, i never left my console on on the pause /battle screen

edit 3
1hr in and even when resetting the lines are mostly gone, and the more pronounced ones are hard to see. (2bars left in power meter)

edit 4
90(ish) minutes in, still 2 power bars left (have been resetting each post for checking) and 100% clean, no traces of the burn in, not that I would want to test this to see if it would work again.  To the writer of the screen test, kudos to you or your group 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




quicknote
@JonthanD
As far as lcd not burning in, it usually takes longer, but they are just as capable, I used to play wow hours on end, I had it once where my bars at the bottom and side (which except for occasional changes to the spell never change location or appearance) burned in, and stayed burned in for 4+hrs of white screen (opened image editor, and zoomed in on a blank white image).  Corrected after about 6ish on that one.  (was a high quality screen from dell the 2005fpw ultra sharp....and after 12+hrs of straight playing....yes I KNOW i need a life).


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## Schlupi (Feb 14, 2011)

Does anybody know if NESDS EX causing burn in as well?


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## YayMii (Feb 16, 2011)

Schlupi said:
			
		

> Does anybody know if NESDS EX causing burn in as well?


Of course it does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The problem isn't restricted to the NES emulators, you know... The problem can happen on any game where there are static graphics shown on the screen for a long time.

In fact, I've only ever gotten burn-in when using the DSi Browser and keeping my DSi XL on Plants vs Zombies's Zen Garden for an extended period of time.


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## bashnma (Mar 30, 2014)

Yesterday nesDS created burned lines in my NDS XL. I played Ninja Gaiden for 1-2 hours, or so. And lines were burn in place where your lifes and stats goes on your screen. So i can confirm that this rumor is true. It will burn your top screen even if there is a not moving stats on it. I think nds is worst console for emulation ever, bunch of glitches in most emulators, bunch of not working games and bad optimization, please, stay away from this. Recently i was thinking that nesDS is only good emulator right now, but i was mistaken. I have no resources to replace the screen, so i think i will not use my nds anymore, or live with this red and white lines on top, they are not so big, but annoying. It didn't even healed by itself by leaving nds turned on alone for a long time.


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