# What if... religion never existed



## SixSenseEagle (Aug 4, 2012)

I know I'm young, and all, but just think about it if religion never exist I think the world would be a better place, and more advance than it's current state, but I'm done now What are your opinions on this situation?, also no arguing!


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 4, 2012)

Oh god no not another one of these threads.

They just turn into pointless debate where no side ever concedes and intellectual dick wagging.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 4, 2012)

it would be a better place i'd just love to post some more but some peeps may get offended (atheist by the way yeah i don't hide it) and we would be 100 years into the future now if it wasn't for the dark ages.


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## SixSenseEagle (Aug 4, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Oh god no not another one of these threads.
> 
> They just turn into pointless debate where no side ever concedes and intellectual dick wagging.


well...can someone remove this post if this going to happen plz or you (Anyone in general) can state your opinions nicely without arguing.


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## emigre (Aug 4, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCX3ZNDZAwY


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## Veho (Aug 4, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> They just turn into pointless debate where no side ever concedes and intellectual dick wagging.


But without the "intellectual" bit.


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## The Catboy (Aug 4, 2012)

I think it would pretty much be like the Atheist episode of South Part.
I mean we would most likely be living in a world were science wasn't suppressed and would have far better technology and medical science. As well debates like civil rights and women's rights would most likely not be around since there wouldn't be a Bible to bring them up.

But we would still be at war with each other over who's Atheism is right and who has the right answers or something stupid like that.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

I like how people in the late 20th and early 21st century blame religion for the short-comings of our civilization without knowing how much research and schooling was funded by religious organisations in the past. Who do you think funded schools at first if not churches? Who do you think studied botany and astrology if not monks?

Religion has nothing to do with science - you have crazy zealots on both the religious and non-religious sides of the barricade.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I like how people in the late 20th and early 21st century blame religion for the short-comings of our civilization without knowing how much research and schooling was funded by religious organisations in the past. Who do you think funded schools at first if not churches? Who do you think studied botany and astrology if not monks?
> 
> Religion has nothing to do with science - you have crazy zealots on both the religious and non-religious sides of the barricade.


I think the bigger portion of what people mean is way back in the dark ages and in other various times when religion trumped science and such.


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## BORTZ (Aug 4, 2012)




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## FireGrey (Aug 4, 2012)

Remind me of that multiverse episode of family guy.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> I think the bigger portion of what people mean is way back in the dark ages and in other various times when religion trumped science and such.


That's still unfair judgement though. It's not just religion that has the capacity to stall science - any kind of ideology can do that. You can't blame an entire group for the sins of a selected few whackos. I don't think believing in a higher existence, let's call it "God" or "Gods" for the sake of the argument, in itself, stalls science.

Many scientists, both in the past and currently, are strongly religious and it does not cloud their judgement whatsoever. It's the approach towards religion that matters, not religion itself.

People need to start to understand that religion is but a moral framework on which you build further - it's not an instruction booklet on how you're supposed to percieve the world. To reject the empirical findings of science just because someone misinterpreted a 2000+ year old text in a way that forbids following reason is madness, and many religious people such as myself realize that.


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## Zetta_x (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Suprgamr232 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the bigger portion of what people mean is way back in the dark ages and in other various times when religion trumped science and such.
> ...



Any proposition on how to fix the %85+ of religious people who don't see it that way?

Religion is like a black hole; even if you don't want to participate in it, you are somewhat still affected by the gravitational pull.

The stronger a certain religion is, the more it's going to inadvertently affect everyone else.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Suprgamr232 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the bigger portion of what people mean is way back in the dark ages and in other various times when religion trumped science and such.
> ...


I don't disagree with you or anything, in fact there were tons of scientific advancements in the period I mentioned, but people get the wrong idea when they think of the dark ages.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Any proposition on how to fix the %85+ of religious people who don't see it that way?


I don't personally know a single person who rejects science due to religious belief. It takes an uneducated slob to do so, not a religious person. Your views are 2000-and-late and incredibly jaded.


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## Hielkenator (Aug 4, 2012)

No religion = no war


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hielkenator said:


> No religion = no war


War is a part of human nature, not religion. We fight with eachother because we "feel" - because we're human and we're capable to be angry or jealous. Religion can be the motivation for war, but not the definite cause. There were wars long before there was religion.


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## Skelletonike (Aug 4, 2012)

Hielkenator said:


> No religion = no war


Lol, that's seriously funny. z.z
Human beings will always find something to fight for, do you think people actually fought because they cared about religion? Only a few actually had that idea, but most just fought for power, riches and stuff. It's part of being human to wage wars, humanity will never be united and in complete peace, it's just not possible.

Edit: Ninja'd by Foxi. z.z


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## pyromaniac123 (Aug 4, 2012)

I read the thread title and thought it would be SixSenseEagle to have posted this thread.


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## gifi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Zetta_x said:
> 
> 
> > Any proposition on how to fix the %85+ of religious people who don't see it that way?
> ...


So, what you're saying is that, religious people, who believe in god(s) and whatnot also believe they don't exist... If they believe in religion and that God created the universe then they obviously can't believe all science has told us, simply because science has proved that there is no God.


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## ComeTurismO (Aug 4, 2012)

Eh, there is going to be a lot of fighting in this thread, therefore, I shall ignore yer thread.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 4, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> Hielkenator said:
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> > No religion = no war
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FOXI SAID IT FIRST I'M GONNA WAR YOU SO HARD.


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## SixSenseEagle (Aug 4, 2012)

pyromaniac123 said:


> I read the thread title and thought it would be SixSenseEagle to have posted this thread.


And what do you know I did, and your suppose to be talking about this not me.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Aug 4, 2012)

This thread isn't going to end well. 

Do some people not think when they make a thread like this?

Abandon time~


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## shortz1994 (Aug 4, 2012)

One big thing if religion wasn't around. there would be less war.(most if not all wars start with religion.). we would be way smarter more advance.( the great library of Alexandria would still be standing. an the human race would be more.). think about it, all of the knowledge of the world at that time, was in one place. an most of the things that was discovered, we are rediscovering.
me personally I hate religion, it breads hate. ( all religions." if you don't believe in our god. your going to die/go to hell".) so i guess the world as a whole is going to hell.(like this hasn't already started.)


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## pyromaniac123 (Aug 4, 2012)

SixSenseEagle said:


> pyromaniac123 said:
> 
> 
> > I read the thread title and thought it would be SixSenseEagle to have posted this thread.
> ...



I was talking about the thread, hence why I said what I did.

If religions never existed, stupid threads like this one would never of been made.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

gifi4 said:


> *Science has proved that there is no God.*


I rest my case, I will let the rest of the forum judge you.


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## SixSenseEagle (Aug 4, 2012)

Phoenix Goddess said:


> This thread isn't going to end well.
> 
> Do some people not think when they make a thread like this?
> 
> Abandon time~


I didn't think this was going to happen, I told them to do no aruging, but what do you know they did the opposite.


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## kupo3000 (Aug 4, 2012)

shortz1994 said:


> One big thing if religion wasn't around. there would be less war.(most if not all wars start with religion.). we would be way smarter more advance.( the great library of Alexandria would still be standing. an the human race would be more.). think about it, all of the knowledge of the world at that time, was in one place. an most of the things that was discovered, we are rediscovering.
> me personally I hate religion, it breads hate. ( all religions." if you don't believe in our god. your going to die/go to hell".) so i guess the world as a whole is going to hell.(like this hasn't already started.)



Yep, the cons outweigh the pros and ironically many don't want to admit that even if the world explodes in their face.


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## DrOctapu (Aug 4, 2012)

Sciences would be significantly more advanced, probably. Bigoted people would still think that gay people were bad because they can't reproduce. Then there'd be cloning at some point hopefully negating that argument. Chick-Fil-A wouldn't be all over the fucking internet right now. Atheism wouldn't be something that people got all uppity about for a couple months. This thread'd probably be something like "lol wat if ther was guy controllin everythang" or some such. It'd eventually exist but it's adherents'd be ridiculed like, uh, mormons or scientologists or something. Less shitty music. Arts'd probably less restricted by "VAGINAS ARE GRODY" dogma so we'd probably be spared that one video where the hipster chick rubs spaghettios into her vagina and everyone pontificates about how artsy they are. Don't google that because it actually exists and it's fucking awful.

This'll probably take effect in a couple of decades anyway when religion inevitably dies out so it's not like it'd make much of a difference in the end.


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## pyromaniac123 (Aug 4, 2012)

SixSenseEagle said:


> Phoenix Goddess said:
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> 
> > This thread isn't going to end well.
> ...



Posting a religion thread and you seriously thought it wasn't going to happen?


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm not trying to be funny or mean but I seriously can't tell if the OP is trolling or just stupid...

Eh, what the hell, I'm bored


Foxi4 said:


> Hielkenator said:
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> 
> > No religion = no war
> ...


You're right...and wrong. Yeah, without religion there would still be war, but just as war is human nature so is religion. Religion is what humans turn to to explain what they do not understand.



gifi4 said:


> science has proved that there is no God.


lol, that is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I'm an atheist by the way.


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## Phoenix Goddess (Aug 4, 2012)

SixSenseEagle said:


> I didn't think this was going to happen, I told them to do no aruging, but what do you know they did the opposite.



To be blunt... who the fuck _are_ you? People aren't really going to listen to you(You don't exactly give them a reason to) and in their defense, it's quite a loaded question. I'm more baffled that you _didn't_ think this would happen.


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## SixSenseEagle (Aug 4, 2012)

pyromaniac123 said:


> SixSenseEagle said:
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> > Phoenix Goddess said:
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It was going good at the start, but suddenly it went downhill after that, thats why I thought it wasn't about to go that far


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## gifi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gifi4 said:
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> 
> > *Science has proved that there is no God.*
> ...


A rephrase is in order: Science has proved that even if there is a god, this 'god' did not create the universe.


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## Magsor (Aug 4, 2012)

Religion is bad.
But the real question is:
What is religion?


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## DragorianSword (Aug 4, 2012)

I agree with Suprgamr and Skelettonike.
No religion certainly doesn't mean no war.
I would like to think that without religion, there would be no war but people always find some reason to surpress other people.

I don't agree that we would be that much more advanced in technology though.
Religion may have stood against science many times, but it didn't prevent the scientists to just continue with what they are doing.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Aug 4, 2012)

gifi4 said:


> Foxi4 said:
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> > gifi4 said:
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not true at all, where are your sources friend?


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## Fishaman P (Aug 4, 2012)

The world will live as one.


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## pyromaniac123 (Aug 4, 2012)

SixSenseEagle said:


> pyromaniac123 said:
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> > SixSenseEagle said:
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Expected debate. Got debate. Complains.


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## SixSenseEagle (Aug 4, 2012)

Phoenix Goddess said:


> SixSenseEagle said:
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> 
> > I didn't think this was going to happen, I told them to do no aruging, but what do you know they did the opposite.
> ...


A kid, and a Sophmore who was stating his own opinion, and also asking people what was there  opinion about this I didn't even mean it to go this far.


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## kupo3000 (Aug 4, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> gifi4 said:
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> 
> > science has proved that there is no God.
> ...



Well technically science has demonstrated that a deity is not necessary to explain certain things.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

DrOctapu said:


> *Sciences would be significantly more advanced, probably*.


*sigh* Okay...



> *BINARY MATHEMATICS* - Binary arithmetic, so important to modern computer science, was the brainchild of *Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz.* Leibniz, also invented a binary calculator which was a forerunner of modern computational machines. *He was a devout Lutheran*.
> 
> *CHEMISTRY *- *Robert Boyle* is called by some the Father of Chemistry. His science sprang directly from his faith. All of his writings show the imprint of Christianity. As a young man, newly converted to Christ, he struggled with faith because the science of the day contained so much which was contrary to his belief. *He therefore determined that every fact must be clearly established and tested, in which case he felt certain that it would prove compatible with scripture since both had the same author.* *John Dalton,* a Quaker, gave us the atomic theory behind chemistry. *Josiah Willard Gibbs* was a creator of statistical mechanics (a specialized branch of chemistry) and in France, the* ardent Roman Catholic* *Pierre Duhem* also constributed to the emerging science of statistical mechanics. *Sir Humphrey Davy* claimed faith and is noted for his chemical researches as was his protege *Michael Faraday* who first liquified chlorine. The isolater of inert gases, *Sir William Ramsay,* also was a man of Christian faith.
> 
> ...



As you can see, Religion can be quite "inspiring" for scientists. There would be no "cloning" if not for Religion -_ there would be no genetics to speak of._ I'm not even trying, these names are picked at random.




gifi4 said:


> Foxi4 said:
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> > gifi4 said:
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I take it that you find it very hard to take the Bible or any other religious text metaphorically. And by the way, since we're so much into science, where's your evidence?


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Aug 4, 2012)

kupo3000 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
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> > gifi4 said:
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that is not even close to the same thing as saying science proves there is no god, that's saying that science suggests god is not necessary, which I'm not denying


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## The Milkman (Aug 4, 2012)

kupo3000 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
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> > gifi4 said:
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Example if you will?


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## kupo3000 (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> As you can see, Religion can be quite "inspiring" for scientists. There would be no "cloning" if not for Religion -_ there would be no genetics to speak of._ I'm not even trying, these names are picked at random.



Keep in mind that it would've been considered social suicide or death depending the era if those scientists didn't believe in the judeo-christian deity. They basically had no choice during the social pressures of those times.


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## MFDC12 (Aug 4, 2012)

just to comment on religion = no war thing
I don't believe that one bit
no matter that there will be war
people will think they are superior to other people, it's just a fact of life. no religion isn't going to change that (like how japan thought china was inferior and did lethal human tests on them in WWII which was not motivated by religion one bit)


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## gifi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> gifi4 said:
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> 
> > Foxi4 said:
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Scientists at this time don't know how the universe began, however they know that a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a second (Possibly a shorter amount of time, I can't quite remember) the universe was a tiny ball that could fit in the palm of your hand and continuosly expanded, even at the current time, the universe is expanding. As to not get into too much depth, the universe stayed that way, constantly expanding with nothing but matter... Eventually the first atoms were created... Rather than continuing, I'll say this: If a god created the universe, why exactly go through such a process instead of just simply creating the Earth and the Universe itself instantly...

Also one last thing, I may have made several mistakes in the above text as I'm going off the top of my head. Also, rather than respond, look at it this way, the bible was created by human being(s), human being's make mistakes, the bible could be a single huge mistake. Don't get me wrong, the same goes for what scientists have done, it could just be all mistakes.

Edit: Just to add: The whole, religion war thing, is wrong... Religion may be partial motivation for war, it would not be the only contributing factor, if there was no religion, there'd still be war.


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## DrOctapu (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> DrOctapu said:
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> 
> > *Sciences would be significantly more advanced, probably*.
> ...



Just because someone's religious doesn't mean that their religion is responsible for everything they've done. I'm sure you'd love to attribute that same logic to Hitler's fondness for Christianity (_“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”_  –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)) and the pedophile priests' more obvious affiliations with Catholicism. If people weren't being bigoted about gay people because they're religious they'd be doing it for some other reason, and if the gentlemen that you listed weren't religious others would find new muses. Truth doesn't change based on culture. If all of human knowledge was destroyed, the scientific findings of the future would run in the same veins as today's. Religions, on the other hand, would be different.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

kupo3000 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > As you can see, Religion can be quite "inspiring" for scientists. There would be no "cloning" if not for Religion -_ there would be no genetics to speak of._ I'm not even trying, these names are picked at random.
> ...


Please don't be ridiculous. Your point was that sciences would be more developed than they are now if there were no religions and I just proved to you that religion itself had either little impact or proved to be inspiring for scientists.

Some people believe in God or Gods, some people don't, that's just how things are. A truly religious person marvels at the creations of God and wishes to understand them - "Christian Scientists" wanted to understand the divine and chose the path of science to achieve that. By understanding the world around them, they understood the divine and that led them to discovering and inventing plenty of things that nowadays we take for granted.

Just like any possible factor, Religion can have a positive or a negative impact. You're going to pull out the argument of book burnings and I'm simply going to say that with or without religion, there would still be people fighting for some other cause that would stall development. It's not a matter of religion per-se, it's a matter of education and understanding.



DrOctapu said:


> Just because someone's religious doesn't mean that their religion is responsible for everything they've done. I'm sure you'd love to attribute that same logic to Hitler's fondness for Christianity (_“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”_  –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)) and the pedophile priests' more obvious affiliations with Catholicism. If people weren't being bigoted about gay people because they're religious they'd be doing it for some other reason, and if the gentlemen that you listed weren't religious others would find new muses. Truth doesn't change based on culture. If all of human knowledge was destroyed, the scientific findings of the future would run in the same veins as today's. Religions, on the other hand, would be different.


 I never said that religion is in any way responsible for the forementioned discoveries and inventions - what I said was that it was inspiring for some scientists. In fact, I also said that Religion and Science should be kept as far apart as possible, much like Religion and State should be, as Religion is not a field of Science.

I also don't see why you're bringing peadophilia into the argument for some reason, neither do I understand the sudden appereance of Adolf Hitler in your post. I said it on the very first page - you have whackos, idiots or zealots on each side of the barricade. Religion didn't tell Hitler to go on and kill Jews - Jesus was a Jew, not only that, the Bible still contains scripture stating that in ancient times they were the chosen nation. Peadophilia isn't directly connected with Religion either - what point are you trying to make? That some's sexually deviated because God told him to? Don't be ridiculous.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Aug 4, 2012)

gifi4 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
> 
> 
> > gifi4 said:
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Dude, I'm a physics major, I don't need your grade school explanation of how the universe began. I seriously hope you realize you haven't proven anything. If you think you have then you're just as ignorant as the theists that think they can "prove" god does exist. "god" can not be proved nor disproved it's a simple as that, therefor I chose to simply believe there is no god because I have no evidence that there is, not because I have evidence there isn't.


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## MFDC12 (Aug 4, 2012)

gifi4 said:


> Scientists at this time don't know how the universe began, however they know that a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a second (Possibly a shorter amount of time, I can't quite remember) the universe was a tiny ball that could fit in the palm of your hand and continuosly expanded, even at the current time, the universe is expanding. As to not get into too much depth, the universe stayed that way, constantly expanding with nothing but matter... Eventually the first atoms were created... Rather than continuing, I'll say this: If a god created the universe, why exactly go through such a process instead of just simply creating the Earth and the Universe itself instantly...



I'm just going to go ahead and say it, I don't disagree with the big bang but I also don't agree with it, because it is a theory. it is the most plausible scientific theory for the start of the universe (also was devised by a catholic monk), but it doesn't mean it is true/we know this is exactly how the world started/know the exact time. it is quite possible we will never know.
same with the theory of evolution, it is a theory. the most plausible theory, but who knows, it could either become a law or we find a better theory to how life as we know it came about.

edit, besides, evolution and the big bang don't disprove god


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## Zetta_x (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Zetta_x said:
> 
> 
> > Any proposition on how to fix the %85+ of religious people who don't see it that way?
> ...



I meant this part, should of specified:



> People need to start to understand that religion is but a moral framework on which you build further - it's not an instruction booklet on how you're supposed to percieve the world. To reject the empirical findings of science just because someone misinterpreted a 2000+ year old text in a way that forbids following reason is madness, and many religious people such as myself realize that.




Although, I know pastors who say science is all false...


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## The Catboy (Aug 4, 2012)

Hielkenator said:


> No religion = no war


People would still find a reason to war.
Hell I bet if everyone was Atheist, they would war over who's Atheism is right.
Let's not forget about warring over land, natural resources, and money.
People go to war over everything, religion isn't the only reason.


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## KingVamp (Aug 4, 2012)

Do people think without religion, all of them would just suddenly drop their morals and ethics?
Science would be "stalled" anyway since not every advancement may not be the right thing to do. 

Also, even if their was a sudden advancement in science if their was no religion, there is a bad
side to technology and things can get dangerous much quicker.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Although, I know pastors who say science is all false...


Then the pastors you know are mental, but you shouldn't condemn the entire group just because a pastor you know refuses to use his brain.


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## kupo3000 (Aug 4, 2012)

MFDC12 said:


> just to comment on religion = no war thing
> I don't believe that one bit
> no matter that there will be war
> people will think they are superior to other people, it's just a fact of life. no religion isn't going to change that (like how japan thought china was inferior and did lethal human tests on them in WWII which was not motivated by religion one bit)



From wiki just in case.



> *	World War II*
> 
> The role of the emperor as head of the Shinto religion was exploited during the war, creating an Imperial cult that led to kamikaze bombers and other fanaticism. This in turn led to the requirement in the Potsdam Declaration for the elimination "for all time [of] the authority and influence of those who have deceived and misled the people of Japan into embarking on world conquest". Following Japan's surrender, the Allies issued the Shinto Directive separating church and state within Japan, leading to the Humanity Declaration of the incumbent Emperor. Subsequently a new constitution was drafted to define the role of the emperor and the government.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Hielkenator said:
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> > No religion = no war
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That is so true...


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## MFDC12 (Aug 4, 2012)

kupo3000 said:


> [snip]


I take back about what I said about no religion involved, then, I guess I didn't research it as much as I thought
HOWEVER
still doesn't mean it wouldn'tve happened, as people think they are superior over other people (stereotypically, rich/poor, also races (slavery) can also be secular), etc


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Can we all just agree that Xenophobia has little to do with Religion and more to do with how people percieve differences between races?

It's just how the human brain works - you see that someone is different and it brings forth questions, questions which in turn brew emotions. Some people get anxious, scared, some feel superior, others inferior. It's the way the human mind works - when you see two things or two people that are different on first sight, equality is the last thing that springs to mind.

Equality between races is very noble and racism should be condemned, but we should also keep in mind that tolerance is something artificial that we instill in ourselves, not a natural reaction.


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## Zetta_x (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Zetta_x said:
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> 
> > Although, I know pastors who say science is all false...
> ...




As a person who studies statistics, believe me, I'm not the one to generalize 

Of course the pastor is mental, I never went back to that church ever again. He said almost literally, "Things of nature was created by God, Scientist pretend they can explain things of nature with thing like physics, chemistry, and biology. They are all wrong, scientist pretend we can comprehend God's intelligence"

So many logical fallacies in that one sentence... the sad thing is that people like my cousin and his friends will take to heart what he said


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## Depravo (Aug 4, 2012)

What if... threads about religion didn't exist.



Spoiler



Moderators would have a lot less to do.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> As a person who studies statistics, believe me, I'm not the one to generalize
> 
> Of course the pastor is mental, I never went back to that church ever again. He said almost literally, "Things of nature was created by God, Scientist pretend they can explain things of nature with thing like physics, chemistry, and biology. They are all wrong, scientist pretend we can comprehend God's intelligence"
> 
> So many logical fallacies in that one sentence... the sad thing is that people like my cousin and his friends will take to heart what he said


Preachers like him don't understand the idea behind explaining nature. I sincerely doubt that any serious scientist out there wakes up in the morning, shakes his or her fist at the sky and screams "I will disprove your existence, whoever you are not!" - that's just stupid. The idea they should entertain is that scientists explain how God's creations "work" and why in a manner of admiring them. It saddens me that people buy into that kind of bullshit.


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## gifi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

I just thought I'd mention this: I don't hate religion, the school I actually go to is really multi-cultural and has a whole lot of different religions and I deal with it with no problem. And what Zetta has said, is the type of stuff that annoys me (The pastor, not Zetta), and yeah I do see a fair bit of it, sadly.


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## kupo3000 (Aug 4, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Please don't be ridiculous. Your point was that sciences would be more developed than they are now if there were no religions and I just proved to you that religion itself had either little impact or proved to be inspiring for scientists.
> 
> Some people believe in God or Gods, some people don't, that's just how things are. A truly religious person marvels at the creations of God and wishes to understand them - "Christian Scientists" wanted to understand the divine and chose the path of science to achieve that. By understanding the world around them, they understood God and that led them to discovering and inventing plenty of things that nowadays we take for granted.
> 
> Just like any possible factor, Religion can have a positive or a negative impact. You're going to pull out the argument of book burnings and I'm simply going to say that with or without religion, there would still be people fighting for some other cause that would stall development. It's not a matter of  religion per-se, it's a matter of education and understanding.



I don't recall ever mentioning, "that sciences would be more developed than they are now if there were no religions".
Probably where you live Christianity is kept in bay as something cultural like modern day Shinto.
In America, not so much.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

gifi4 said:


> I just thought I'd mention this: I don't hate religion, the school I actually go to is really multi-cultural and has a whole lot of different religions and I deal with it with no problem. And what Zetta has said, is the type of stuff that annoys me (The pastor, not Zetta), and yeah I do see a fair bit of it, sadly.


Oh, trust me, I realize that there are nutters out there and it really pains me to say that some do seep their poison into the ears of their listeners, but I choose to belive that it's not the religion that made them that way, but their upbringing or education. I know that for every loud and famous nutter there's one educated, timid and never-heard-of intelligent priest or pastor.

Like in every organised group, churches of all kinds have their black sheep - some churches are even made specifically out of black sheep because "treating scripture as fact" is a part of their belief, but I don't think we should condemn the entire concept of religiousness just because of them.

There's a saying where I live - the smallest dogs bark the loudest. They're the small dogs.

I can see how certain religious leaders can "dumbify" the nation, but then again, don't politics or TV stars do the exact same thing? Whenever there's fellowship involved, there will be good and bad examples, don't you think? 


kupo3000 said:


> I don't recall ever mentioning "that sciences would be more developed than they are now if there were no religions".
> Probably where you live Christianity is kept in bay as something cultural like modern day Shinto.
> If America, not so much.


The "Old Cavalery" in the form of the eldery is still here, 96% or so of Polish citizens declares they're Catholic *however* the youth of the nation follows science rather than doctrine, so I suppose we're walking in the right direction. Where I live, if you said that "there's no such thing as evolution" or another fallacy of the kind, you'd be ridiculed in an instant... so yes, I think that paradoxically, the situation is better compared to the states.


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## Blood Fetish (Aug 4, 2012)

If religion was never invented then man would have created some other system to control the populace. In that alternate universe we would have a thread discussing that.


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## shortz1994 (Aug 4, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Do people think without religion, all of them would just suddenly drop their morals and ethics?
> Science would be "stalled" anyway since not every advancement may not be the right thing to do.
> 
> Also, even if their was a sudden advancement in science if their was no religion, there is a bad
> side to technology and things can get dangerous much quicker.


??. how would science stall or stop due to no religion? i think science would grow. look at what was stopped over the period of time, before science was more main stream as it is today.
religion is what stopped the great thinkers of there time,cause it went against the so called church. morals an ethics also don't have come from religion.( i can count on my fingers/toes how many people are so called religious an have no morals or ethics.) morals/ethics are taught at home by mom's dad's if you think  the sunday school teacher is going to teach that we might as well never come out of the dark ages.( that's what was happening back then, "the church is always right.") shit just a small point here, look at the crap going on with the chicken restaurant
who gives a flying F$%k if they are happy let them be happy. what right is it of a church to tell anyone who they can or can't marry or be with.( or for anyone of us for this matter.)
an as far as there would not be a war with out religion.  i didn't say there wouldn't be. just there would be a lot less. humans will always fight over some thing. even the last roll of toilet paper.
it's our nature. but religion has had a big role in starting wars. more then the last roll of toilet paper has.  i could say a lot more.( shit i'm one of those that got kicked out of a catholic church, couldn't even see my mom before she was buried, an why. cause i got into a philosophical rant with the father, over this very fact.). but the fact is true for all religions, they always try an cram their beliefs down others throats.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

shortz1994 said:


> Religion is what stopped the great thinkers of there time,cause it went against the so called church.


We've already established in the duration of this thread that it's subject to change and there was a time when it was the Religious institutions that were the epicenter of scholastic pursuits, so the rest of your post makes little sense.

It was also established that without Religion, we'd find something else to fight over.


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## KingVamp (Aug 4, 2012)

shortz1994 said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > Do people think without religion, all of them would just suddenly drop their morals and ethics?
> ...



I think you misunderstood. Basically moral and ethics with still be there without religion, therefor science still wouldn't advance as fast since they would be check every step of the way.


Have to go, so I can't elaborate more right now.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 4, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> I think you misunderstood. Basically moral and ethics with still be there without religion, therefor science still would
> advance as fast since they would be check every step of the way.


This is an _incredibly _good point.

Look at the "Orthodox Green Movement" - organisations like the Animal Liberation Front, or other movements of the kind. They cross the border between being eco-friendly and being an eco-terrorist, ordering their members to attack and burn down science facilities or even to assasinate their "enemies" not because of religion but because "they care for animals".

Every reason can be a good reason if you build a cult around it, not just religion. Morality and ethics are "human" and they'd be still there even without an established religion, and _"those two are like an a*shole - eveybody has their own"_.


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## DiscostewSM (Aug 4, 2012)

Less wars with no religion? Maybe, but along with that, I would also think that less wars would have lead to a slower development of science and technology. Just think about it for a bit. In war, you have to push for victory, and having an advantage over your opponent. Your opponent makes bullet-projectile weapons, so you make bullet-proof armor. Your opponent makes better bullet-projectile weapons to counter your protection, so you make better protection. Rather than continuing with this game of cat and mouse, your opponent goes and makes bombs, to which you then have to try and counter that. Sure, this may not explain the universe, but there is no doubt that some advancements made because of war can lead to increased development of non-war studies.

Besides, isn't science simply a bunch of theories based on our own interpretations and observations? The way "we" think the universe works may not be the same as how it actually works. Our theories just happen to work until something new happens, to which our theories change. Many people believe the universe was created with the Big Bang (a theory nonetheless), yet even our own observations and interpretations of science has shown the Big Bang theory to be false due to different factors, like the conservation of angular momentum. Is it false, or is our data regarding how we think the universe works is false? That is why it is all just theories.

If anything from what I just said, I would say that religion had more of a impact towards increased development of science/technology rather than holding us back because it made us think differently of the universe.


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## Depravo (Aug 4, 2012)

Closed at creator's request.


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