# NRA: Video Games are "the filthiest form of pornography"



## Gahars (Dec 21, 2012)

After the horrible tragedy in Sandy Hook, the game of "Pin the Blame on the Scapegoat" continues as everyone tries to find an easy excuse. Many have argued that the United States' gun-fixation was an underlying cause; the National Rifle Association, naturally, has had to defend itself.

In a statement for the press, the NRA went on to point the finger at the scourge of video games (along with film and music). While others have made similar gestures, the organization evidently took the ball and ran with it.



> And here's another dirty little truth that the media try their best to conceal: There exists in this country a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.
> 
> Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse. And here's one: it's called Kindergarten Killers. It's been online for 10 years. How come my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn't or didn't want anyone to know you had found it?
> 
> ...







National Rifle Association

The NRA goes on to suggest that the United States just doesn't have _enough_ guns; the organization states that if all schools feature heavily armed security guards, this tragedy (and others) could have been avoided entirely.

And by the way, you know that last game it mentions? Kindergarten Killers? It was a flash game on Newgrounds from 2002. Yeah.

This is normally where I'd make some snarky comment or pun, but really... "corrupting shadow industry." Kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it?


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## Depravo (Dec 21, 2012)

> Guns don't kill people - people with guns kill people.


 ~anon

or...


> We must blame them and cause a fuss before somebody thinks of blaming us!


 ~Sheila Broflovski


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## ShadowSoldier (Dec 21, 2012)

Newgrounds? Point invalid sir!

Here's the thing, history is just repeating itself.

Games<<<Movies<<< Rap <<< Rock and Roll....I mean, it could NEVER be the fact that the guy was fucked up in the head. Oh no, he could never have had a bomb waiting to go off, he could never have been a mentalcase. It's ALWAYS something else.

For every nut job there is in the world, there's about 100k normal gamers who aren't affected. (obviously it's a random number but you get the point). To say that it's video games fault is just ludicrous. The guy was fucked up in the head, plain and simple, there's nothing to blame except him.


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## The Catboy (Dec 21, 2012)

Guns don't kill people, but they do shoot bullets in people.

In all seriousness adding more guns won't solve the gun problem nor would pinning the blame on video games solve it. In fact I would really like to know how many shootings are actually carried out by gamers or at least fans of violent video games?


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## Zetta_x (Dec 21, 2012)

The only reason why people go out on killing sprees is because society pushed them in a corner. They are probably unique individuals where social laws back them into corners with oppression and no one will listen to them. You have people (who think they are all high and mighty) saying these people need sever mental help and in the perspective of this person they don't see anything wrong. It's months of hatred built up from being singled out and don't even have family that will listen to them. They don't kill because they saw it on some video game, they kill because they are finally retaliating to those who pushed them in this corner.

Look here NRA, you have millions of people who play violent video games. Out of those millions, how many of them conduct a murder spree. Then look at how many people who don't play violent video games, how many of them go on a murder spree. I haven't heard any terrorist playing black ops 2, they kill because we oppressed them and their religion.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 21, 2012)

_"Video games are (...) the filthiest form of pornography"_ - comes from an organisation which members shoot at bambi in their spare time. Well done, NRA.


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## Celice (Dec 21, 2012)

Sometimes it isn't those who say crazy things who are crazy, but the cat whom chases the craze that is truly out of respect.

potatoes


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## Ericthegreat (Dec 21, 2012)

I do agree that armed officers could help in a situation like this, bit the problem is, what if they go crazy? But still prob a good choice since police don't usually just start randomly shooting ppl.


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## McHaggis (Dec 21, 2012)

Translation:

_"Please don't take away our guns, Mr Obama, sir.  It wasn't us, it was them there violent vidya games and movies."_


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## dickfour (Dec 21, 2012)

The only way to stop a mass killer is if a good guy has a gun. So on that point the NRA s correct. No gun law is going to keep someone who's determined to kill from getting a weapon capable inflicting mass casualties . I supoort the NRA move to point the finger at games and movies. It will make the people wanting to scapegoat guns pause. It's a good tactical move.
Here's a little fun fact. Lawful gun owners account for less that .5 of 1% of gun crime
England's gun crimes hand gone up since their "gun bam" and when has prohibition ever worked? A gun ban or violent video have ban is just to paper over the real issues. Feel good legislation usually makes the problem worse. Does anyone feel safe in a "gun free zone" I know I don't


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## Chary (Dec 21, 2012)

Mortal Kombat? Oh, please. I've played that game for years, and have never pulled another person's spine out.


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## DS1 (Dec 21, 2012)

It's true. Some games even teach kids how to customize their guns.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 21, 2012)

Chary said:


> Mortal Kombat? Oh, please. I've played that game for years, and have never pulled another person's spine out.


I wanted to on numerous occasions, but it turns out it's harder than the video game depiction...


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## Engert (Dec 21, 2012)

Mortal Kombat is dangerous.
I have tried the following moves on real people and it has worked.


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## dickfour (Dec 21, 2012)

You can't "target" guns without targeting games where you have people exposed to simulated killing for hours day in and day out. The NRA spokesmen makes a valid point. Now are we going to stand up for 1st and 2nd amendments of the constitution or are we going to loose both? Once hey get THe guns do you really think they'll draw the line at movies and games? I don't think so


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## ShadowSoldier (Dec 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I wanted to on numerous occasions, but it turns out it's harder than the video game depiction...


 
Yeah, the only thing I've only been able to do is turn into a pussy ass dragon :/


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 21, 2012)

And I suppose movies like Air Force One turn people into terrorists and assassins. You can't just make a claim and expect people to "study it out". I really wish folks would back up their claims with proof of what they so vehemently claim. 

Then again, that would mean a lot of politicians would lose their jobs.


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## ShadowSoldier (Dec 21, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> And I suppose movies like Air Force One turn people into terrorists and assassins. You can't just make a claim and expect people to "study it out". I really wish folks would back up their claims with proof of what they so vehemently claim.
> 
> Then again, that would mean a lot of politicians would lose their jobs.


 
...Holy shit I totally forgot about that movie. That was a sweet ass movie.


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## LightyKD (Dec 21, 2012)

Fuck the NRA! First its lets arm all teachers with a gun and now its "video games are porn". If these bastards spent as much time trying to have a legitimate conversation about the mental health of the citizens of this country in relation to gun violence instead of trying to make video games into a scapegoat, we might actually make some fucking human progress. -fucking assholes!


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## Deleted member 318366 (Dec 21, 2012)

So basically the NRA are trying to pin the blame on somebody else huh?


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## dickfour (Dec 21, 2012)

Don't like it when it happens to you eh? Well fuck all the liberals who hate guns and what to ban them while getting off on glorified gun violence in movies and video games. Fuck em


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## BlueStar (Dec 21, 2012)

dickfour said:


> The only way to stop a mass killer is if a good guy has a gun. So on that point the NRA s correct. No gun law is going to keep someone who's determined to kill from getting a weapon capable inflicting mass casualties . I supoort the NRA move to point the finger at games and movies. It will make the people wanting to scapegoat guns pause. It's a good tactical move.
> Here's a little fun fact. Lawful gun owners account for less that .5 of 1% of gun crime
> England's gun crimes hand gone up since their "gun bam" and when has prohibition ever worked? A gun ban or violent video have ban is just to paper over the real issues. Feel good legislation usually makes the problem worse.


 
And what has gun crime in England gone up to, compared to gun crime in the US? How come the UK doesn't have more gun crime than America seeing as the citizens are 'defenceless' and you can't stop criminals getting guns? Crime in the UK was down 27% five years after the handgun ban in the wake of Dunblane, how come it didn't go up? These are simple questions that gun nuts simply don't have an answer for. Their theories about what will happen when guns are controlled never, ever play out in realisty as they do in their head. Civillian gun ownership is an ideology that only works in fantasies.



> Does anyone feel safe in a "gun free zone" I know I don't


 
I feel perfectly safe from gun crime in a country where guns are tightly controlled, maybe it's because statistics show you're far, far more likely to be shot dead than I am or maybe it's just because I'm not a coward.


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## yuyuyup (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm VERY glad that the right wing has picked up the banner of "Idiots Blaming Entertainment" rather than democrats holstering this lobbyist cashgrab.  Repubs can hoot and holler all they want, people don't want them in charge any more.  So anything they rail against will have the polar opposite effect with voters.


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## Blaze163 (Dec 21, 2012)

Lengthy rant is lengthy, so 



Spoiler



I always find it amusing how everyone focusses on the negative side of everything, especially when it comes to video games. What about all the positive life lessons we take away from our video gaming? Sonic teaching us about being kind to animals (I didn't get the whole story but what I took away from those games is that trapping cute critters in robots to take over the world is....bad?), believing in yourself (see any and all Kingdom Hearts games), how to manage our time and plan things out (Harvest Moon), etc. Hell, I learned more things from what I saw as positive role models in my gaming growing up than I did from my frankly deadbeat parents.

Thing is, even with my rough childhood and taking my life lessons from gaming and other fiction (books, movies, etc), even though I had games like GTA and Manhunt and Doom and so on, I didn't turn into a psychopathic killer or anything. Why? Because the human brain is programmed to consider the sight of blood to be a bad thing. Sure, we all love it in Mortal Kombat and such, but I guarantee that if anyone here actually saw someone getting their spine ripped out on the street, they'd shit their pants, not sit there thinking 'Fuck me, this is awesome.' We're all capable of determining fiction from reality. The select few that don't that give credence to these cretinous debates about whether video games are pure evil are pretty much born without that ability, or have suffered some tragedy to disable that part of their brain. Either way, that sort of damage is far beyond anything any video game, movie or anything less than a serious childhood trauma. Hellfire, when I was a kid, the following things happened that SHOULD have scarred me for life:

- Inflicted with synaesthesia by my own mother when she smacked me in the face with a dinner plate, permanently damaging my right eye. Long story short, my senses interlink when my blood pressure is too high and the whole world goes all manner of acid trippy wierdness and I basically can't see. Did that turn me psycho? Nope. I studied it, I learned all the subtle nuances of the affliction, and found a way to turn it as close to a superpower as I could. Why? Because I learned from video games and childhood cartoons than superpowers are pretty fuckin' sweet and help you fix things when life is shit.

- Stabbed in the chest rescuing my friend from a gang...umm...can't actually type the word, it gets censored, but you can use your imagination. I technically died saving her. Why was I brave/stupid enough to dive in to a fight against six people, them armed, me weak and extremely tired? Because I learned from my games that you don't just sit there and let bad shit happen. You get up and do what needs be done. Thankfully I must have grabbed a 1-Up mushroom at some point on my travels since I somehow pulled through.

- Endless family problems far too lengthy to explain here, suffice as to say my parents sucked ass and I moved around a hell of a lot as a kid and had no stability whatsoever. Fuck, without the escapism provided by video games I may well have gone batty.

I'm living proof that it takes far more than flashy images on a tv screen to make people go insane. Anyone that goes crazy went crazy FOR A REASON. Take a good, long look at their environment, their upbringing, their family, their social life, look at the deep-seated psychological issues that led them down that dark path. Blaming everything on what's popular should be the exclusive territory of the kind of no-life morons you see on YouTube blaming Justin Bieber for all modern music, saying it's all terrible. Ill-informed, prejudiced, stuck-up whiny duche-canoes all.


 
TL;DR, video games don't cause problems. If anything, they can potentially avoid them and help people. People who blame games, music, etc for all the world's problems need to take a good long look at how the world really is and consider that by looking for a scapegoat instead of analysing and dealing with the real problems, they're just making things worse. Ignorance solves nothing. It's certainly not bliss. If it were, a fair percentage of the world would be in a state of continuous orgasm.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 21, 2012)

I have a question for Americans who love their guns:

do you allow the NRA to speak in your name?



This isn't just about the video game blaming, but in general. In Europe, the US is already considered a country full of gun nuts. While this is obviously not truly the case (disasters like these are very, very, very rare exception)...if the main association on guns is talking this kind of bullshit...it actually does more damage to the land's reputation than the shooting in itself.


This is just sad. I can understand parents, relatives or soccer moms blaming video games and music. But the NRA? A professional organisation that tries to represent people who love guns?

Christ...I wonder what percentage of their members are very fond of that "filthiest form of pornography".


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## nando (Dec 21, 2012)

yes, schools should lay off more teachers to hire heavily armed security guards.


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## Engert (Dec 21, 2012)

I want my schools to look like this, like a fucking war zone.


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## Zetta_x (Dec 21, 2012)

If we had stricter gun laws, then the people who have enough motivation to shoot up a public place will have enough motivation to figure out how to build bombs. Yay, gun related deaths go down; fuck, bomb related deaths went up.


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## KingVamp (Dec 21, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> If we had stricter gun laws, then the people who have enough motivation to shoot up a public place will have enough motivation to figure out how to build bombs. Yay, gun related deaths go down; fuck, bomb related deaths went up.


Proof or studies? Also this.


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## notmeanymore (Dec 21, 2012)

I don't see video games and movies as propaganda for violence. I see it as propaganda for joining the military, and an outlet for violence. If video games stop being a sufficient outlet, you probably need counseling.

Also, if we make a ban on violent video games, I could see the military draft coming back, as so many will have an absolute aversion to violence.


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## xist (Dec 21, 2012)

I'll give you my filthy pornography when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.


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## nando (Dec 21, 2012)

xist said:


> I'll give you my filthy pornography when you pry it from my cold, dead *sticky* hands.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 21, 2012)

Well this thread is entertaining.

Get the popcorn folks.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 21, 2012)

/me hands Guild some popcorn with some buttery, sticky...shiney..._something_ of a sauce on it


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## Valwin (Dec 21, 2012)

Engert said:


> I want my schools to look like this, like a fucking war zone.


 


to be honest not a bad idea


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## gumgod (Dec 21, 2012)

Oh, so now they're attacking pornography!  Where does it end?


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## Chary (Dec 21, 2012)

Engert said:


> I want my schools to look like this, like a fucking war zone.



Well, the closest thing to that, is in Texas, where the teachers are allowed to carry handguns on campus at all times.


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## Zetta_x (Dec 21, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Proof or studies? Also this.




China is a very different country, different mindsets, different traditions. It's only logical that if some known torrent site was not available we would just migrate to another one.


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## Deleted-236924 (Dec 21, 2012)

Damn straight.
Video games are my pornography.


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## Fear Zoa (Dec 21, 2012)

You know what, their right. Video games are filthy and violent. In fact I think i'm going to go play some in a few.

In all seriousness though video games are just the medias current scapegoat, they'll move onto something else eventually.


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## DiscostewSM (Dec 21, 2012)

Mario was originally thought up with having a gun.

But, you know, let's forget that the mother of the shooter was a gun collector, took her son out to shoot, and let him be locked up in the basement playing video games all day/night with no socializing.


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## J-Machine (Dec 21, 2012)

And here I thought it was wrong to get aroused from playing splatterhouse but now that I know it's pornography it's ok... Right?

Thanks NRA!


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## Blaze163 (Dec 21, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> If we had stricter gun laws, then the people who have enough motivation to shoot up a public place will have enough motivation to figure out how to build bombs. Yay, gun related deaths go down; fuck, bomb related deaths went up.



Maybe true, but you can't buy bombs at WalMart. That's why while knife crime is a genuine concern in some areas of my city, since you can't really stop kids getting hold of kitchen knives, there's a surprisingly low number of crimes involving assault rifles.

I've never understood why you can buy assault rifles and armour piercing bullets so easily. I asked a friend of mine once and he said they were for hunting. That always puzzled me too. Why is an assault rifle necessary? How many deer wear a bulletproof vest and kevlar battle helmet? When I brought that up, he went off on a long rambling speech about civil liberty and the right to bear arms. Which, while it may have some logical standing on some level, doesn't quite justify it for me. Some times these liberties should be sacrificed for the greater good, don't you think? All well and good having freedom but it's not much use to you when even a drunken moron can blow your brains out and there's pretty much no way to defend yourself because he has AP rounds.


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## Zetta_x (Dec 22, 2012)

The problem I am seeing is that stricter gun laws will force violent psychopaths to only get more intelligent. It's bad enough it requires no intelligence to shoot up a school, but if they are forced to get clever, we will never be prepared to stop an event.


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## DSGamer64 (Dec 22, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Newgrounds? Point invalid sir!
> 
> Here's the thing, history is just repeating itself.
> 
> ...


 
Well, blame him and the fact that he had easy access to a gun due to lax gun control laws in America. Seriously, we have such a small gun crime rate here in Canada and while we do have a smaller population, the rate of gun crime on a per population is considerably smaller here in contrast to American gun crime.

People don't want to admit there is a problem, especially the NRA because all they are interested in is protecting their own interests as well as those of the people who buy guns. The horrible gun control laws in America are allowing weapons to get into the hands of pretty much everyone without proper screening processes.


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 22, 2012)

I love how they use the word "pornography", when people get their panties in a bunch when as so much as a sideboob is shown in a video game.


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## Chary (Dec 22, 2012)

Hey, anyone know any good Chicken Fighting Rings? I just played Pokemon.

...Foolish NRA.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 22, 2012)

Remember, kids!

_Shooting someone in the face in a video game, something that isn't even real *<* Shooting an actual, real life animal that has no chances of defending itself_​_Immoral *<* Moral_​


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## xist (Dec 22, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> Mario was originally thought up with having a gun.


 
That there is bona fide fiction. Can you actually prove that in Donkey Kong the objective wasn't to evade the barrels (by running away or jumping) but instead by blowing them up with a gun. Or even to shoot at the eponymous villain?

Where did you get the idea that Mario was ever intended to have a gun to accompany him on his platforming? Quite frankly i don't see 80's Miyamoto in the fledgeling gaming industry ever thinking those thoughts.


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## DiscostewSM (Dec 22, 2012)

xist said:


> That there is bona fide fiction. Can you actually prove that in Donkey Kong the objective wasn't to evade the barrels (by running away or jumping) but instead by blowing them up with a gun. Or even to shoot at the eponymous villain?
> 
> Where did you get the idea that Mario was ever intended to have a gun to accompany him on his platforming? Quite frankly i don't see 80's Miyamoto in the fledgeling gaming industry ever thinking those thoughts.


 
That's quite funny, because it *was* Miyamoto that thought it up.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-20-miyamoto-mario-originally-had-a-gun

_edit:_

But it was for Super Mario Brothers, not Donkey Kong.


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## xwatchmanx (Dec 22, 2012)

xist said:


> That there is bona fide fiction. Can you actually prove that in Donkey Kong the objective wasn't to evade the barrels (by running away or jumping) but instead by blowing them up with a gun. Or even to shoot at the eponymous villain?
> 
> Where did you get the idea that Mario was ever intended to have a gun to accompany him on his platforming? Quite frankly i don't see 80's Miyamoto in the fledgeling gaming industry ever thinking those thoughts.


Best check your stuff before calling BS, dude. This is definitely true.


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## Guild McCommunist (Dec 22, 2012)

Chary said:


> Hey, anyone know any good Chicken Fighting Rings? I just played Pokemon.
> 
> ...Foolish NRA.


 
You should've checked out PETA during the Black/White 2 release...

Personally I have amputated my own arm and replaced it with a prosthetic/chainsaw hybrid and have gone to town on a few punks with nearby rose bushes (not the plant kind).

I support this bill.


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## xist (Dec 22, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Best check your stuff before calling BS, dude. This is definitely true.


 
It IS BS. Mario started out in Donkey Kong. It may well have been true of Super Mario as a game, but for Mario as a character it's not. Best check what i actually said.



DiscostewSM said:


> But it was for Super Mario Brothers, not Donkey Kong.


 
I'll take that, but it's not what you said. Mario didn't start life armed.


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## xwatchmanx (Dec 22, 2012)

xist said:


> It IS BS. Mario started out in Donkey Kong. It may well have been true of Super Mario as a game, but for Mario as a character it's not. Best check what i actually said.


He wasn't even called "Mario" in Donkey Kong, dude...


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## xist (Dec 22, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> He wasn't even called "Mario" in Donkey Kong, dude...


 
Donkey Kong is the origin of Mario. I was replying to a statement that:



DiscostewSM said:


> Mario was originally thought up with having a gun.


 
I'm fine with later developments introducing the idea of weapons being mooted but originally he wasn't thought up with anything at all, and almost didn't even have a jump to defend himself.  You can't call me out on something when i was accurate in my assertion about Mario's origin....which wasn't actually what Discostew meant, despite implying it.


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## Fishaman P (Dec 22, 2012)

While I don't think more guns is the solution, I _do_ think that arming and at least slightly training secretaries near entrances is a good idea.
Of course, they would need to pass mental health tests every year or so, and their pay would go up because of this.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Dec 22, 2012)

Blaze163 said:


> Maybe true, but you can't buy bombs at WalMart...



Not ready-to-go bombs, no.
But you can easily get everything needed to make some.


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## Frank Cadena (Dec 22, 2012)

The FBI and ATF flags any abnormal purchases of things that can be made into a bomb. Things like buying huge amounts of fertiliser but not owning a farm, buying chemicals but no reasonable reasons for buying them etc. So it's not that easy to escape the attention it generates. Besides, you need patience and intelligence to build one. Most crazy people who go on shooting rampages lack either one.

For me, the NRA is making people who loves guns uses them responsibly AND love games look bad. I wish they would just shut up.


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## Sterling (Dec 22, 2012)

Okay, now I know the NRA is full of shit. Video games don't make people violent, nor do music and movies. Especially since these can be a form of outlet for people who _want_ to shoot something. I think I'll be discontinuing my support of the NRA after this little charade. Because as someone who plays violent video games and watches violent movies frequently I'm calling their bullshit. I fully support some stricter gun control. I fully support civilian assault rifle bans. But I do not support censorship of anything at all.


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 22, 2012)

Frank Cadena said:


> The FBI and ATF flags any abnormal purchases of things that can be made into a bomb. Things like buying huge amounts of fertiliser but not owning a farm, buying chemicals but no reasonable reasons for buying them etc. So it's not that easy to escape the attention it generates. Besides, you need patience and intelligence to build one. Most crazy people who go on shooting rampages lack either one.
> 
> For me, the NRA is making people who loves guns uses them responsibly AND love games look bad. I wish they would just shut up.


 

There are certainly ways, easy ways to escape the watchful eye of the FBI/CIA/whatever. They aren't all powerful, and they certainly aren't as smart or resourceful as most folks give them credit for.


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## Sterling (Dec 22, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> There are certainly ways, easy ways to escape the watchful eye of the FBI/CIA/whatever. They aren't all powerful, and they certainly aren't as smart or resourceful as most folks give them credit for.


Like prepaid debit cards.


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 22, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Like prepaid debit cards.


 
and buying materials in small quantities from multiple sources.


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## Sterling (Dec 22, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> and buying materials in small quantities from multiple sources.


And off site storage. Honestly, it really isn't hard to evade the FBI and other agencies if you have reason to.


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## Frank Cadena (Dec 22, 2012)

And most people are not as resourceful and smart as they think and get caught. But I do concur that there are ways to avoid scrutiny, just not as easy as you think. One way is go the Unabomber route and live where there are no nosy neighbors, buy everything small amounts at a time across state lines with multiple identities and be really paranoid about the whole thing. Make one slip and you get caught. Way easier to just steal an assault rifle and pray and spray.

I still maintain that you need patience, caution and intelligence to build a bomb; Things that crazy people with guns who go on a rampage lack.


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## Sterling (Dec 22, 2012)

Frank Cadena said:


> And most people are not as resourceful and smart as they think and get caught. But I do concur that there are ways to avoid scrutiny, just not as easy as you think. One way is go the Unabomber route and live where there are no nosy neighbors, buy everything small amounts at a time across state lines with multiple identities and be really paranoid about the whole thing. Make one slip and you get caught. Way easier to just steal an assault rifle and pray and spray.
> 
> I still maintain that you need patience, caution and intelligence to build a bomb; Things that crazy people with guns who go on a rampage lack.


Yes, but just think about when these people can no longer get guns to do it. Then people get intelligent, adapt, overcome then conquer. I'm telling you that _if_ I wanted to, I could come up with a decent plan to avoid Federal Agencies. No plan is fool proof, and I'm not arrogant enough to say mine would be.


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## the_randomizer (Dec 22, 2012)

Oh, I see what's going on here; a right-wing group, dedicated to supporting the rights of gun owners, blames videogames for creating gun-wielding psychopaths? Do they even know the origin of the word they claimed videogames to be?


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## Frank Cadena (Dec 22, 2012)

@Sterling: I agree that you have a point. I just saying that crazy people don't make good bomb makers. They make good suicide bombers though. Give them a vest and then point and shoot.

Personally though, I think America's mental health system needs a review. Oh and assault weapons ban. Assault weapons belong at a war zone, not the streets of America. I'm for rifles and handguns instead. Way more accuracy, cuts down on bystander casualties, and more than enough against lone gunmen wielding assault rifles.


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## chyyran (Dec 22, 2012)

Mr. LaPierre "speech" contained so much irony and idiocy it made me laugh at how much of a lunatic organization the NRA is. Only in 'murrica.


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## Hanafuda (Dec 22, 2012)

Frank Cadena said:


> @Sterling: I agree that you have a point. I just saying that crazy people don't make good bomb makers. They make good suicide bombers though. Give them a vest and then point and shoot.
> 
> Personally though, I think America's mental health system needs a review. Oh and assault weapons ban. Assault weapons belong at a war zone, not the streets of America. I'm for rifles and handguns instead. Way more accuracy, cuts down on bystander casualties, and more than enough against lone gunmen wielding assault rifles.


 

What's an assault weapon?


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## MelodieOctavia (Dec 22, 2012)

Hanafuda said:


> What's an assault weapon?


 
AK-47, M16, etc...


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## JoostinOnline (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't know, I've seen some pretty filthy pornography in my day...


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## shakirmoledina (Dec 22, 2012)

Definition of porn - Creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire
Guns stimulate?

PS - i like how no one says this is not news anymore.


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## GreatZimkogway (Dec 22, 2012)

dickfour said:


> Don't like it when it happens to you eh? Well fuck all the liberals who hate guns and what to ban them while getting off on glorified gun violence in movies and video games. Fuck em


 
Yes, because games physically kill people.  Games are lethal.  Games can go off on tehir own and kill people acciddentally. *Please, next time, use your fucking brain here.*


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## Sterling (Dec 22, 2012)

Hanafuda said:


> What's an assault weapon?


Fully automatic weaponry. AK-47s can be semi-auto as well as full-auto. Same goes for M16s and other weapons.


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## ferofax (Dec 22, 2012)

The NRA is starting to sound a lot like an arms dealer, lol. They basically wanna put weapons in everybody's hands.


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## Ritsuki (Dec 22, 2012)

I give up ! Maybe then I'm just the worst serial killer of the planet because I played Mortal Kombat and Medal of Honor when I was kid.

It's funny, cause America has so much more important problems to solve, yet they focalise on video games...


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## the_randomizer (Dec 22, 2012)

shakirmoledina said:


> Definition of porn - Creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire
> Guns stimulate?
> 
> PS - i like how no one says this is not news anymore.


 

Technically, the word itself is derived of "prono" - came from a word meaning harlot, and "graphy" or "graph", a picture or recording. I know people have their weird fetishes, but guns? Riiiiight.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 22, 2012)

how dare they bash porn!


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## BlueStar (Dec 22, 2012)

So, everything BUT guns caused the massacre, flash games, films, culture, TV... But let me just get this straight, because there's a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance going on here. 

- You're for 'small government' but you want to increase the size of government by 100,000 people

- You want to cut government spending, but you want to hire, train and pay a military force about double the number of the US troops in Afghanistan

- You don't trust the government, but you want a government employee with a gun within range of your child for seven hours every day

- You're scared of Obama's NWO conspiracy and of being put in a FEMA death camp, but you want an enormous armed government military force spread through every corner of the country.



Zetta_x said:


> If we had stricter gun laws, then the people who have enough motivation to shoot up a public place will have enough motivation to figure out how to build bombs. Yay, gun related deaths go down; fuck, bomb related deaths went up.


 
Is that what happens in countries with tougher gun laws?  Schools being blown up?  The Columbine killers tried that and it resulted in 0 deaths.  If they didn't have guns, that's where it would have ended.


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## Hanafuda (Dec 22, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Fully automatic weaponry. AK-47s can be semi-auto as well as full-auto. Same goes for M16s and other weapons.


 
Ok, but what is it exactly that you define as assault weapons? Only fully automatic weapons, or only semi-automatic weapons, or all of both?? Or is it only AK-47's and "M16s" that are fully automatic? Or is it only AK-47's and "M16's" that are semi-automatic (in which case they would actually be AR-15's)?

If it is your intention that the "assault weapon" ban prohibit only fully automatic weaponry, then the federal government beat you to it, in 1934. And then further restricted it in 1968 and 1986. It's still possible to own a full auto, but prohibitively expensive. They're the collector's items and toys of very wealthy men, and there is no crime problem to speak of with full auto weapons.

If it is your intention that the "assault weapon" ban prohibit only semi-automatic AK-47's and AR-15's, then you're singling out a couple of very popular sporting rifles that shoot only medium power cartridges and are not functionally different from other semi-automatics. For example, except for some cosmetic features, the following are functionally the exact same gun:













So, the remaining option is that you mean for the "assault weapon" ban to prohibit the ownership of all semi-automatics. Is that what you meant?


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## Sterling (Dec 22, 2012)

No. Just fully automatics. A civilian sold AK47, SKS, or M16/AR15 is going to be semi-auto. Collectors are generally not going to go on rampages since they already have money (while the saying goes that money does not provide happiness, it does provide a stable environment and such people are less prone to violence.) If that's already been done then we're good. Just slap some good regular psych evaluations, background checks and a fair number of hoops to keep the crazies from owning any firearms (over simplification to be sure but you get the idea). Bans in general are ineffective on anyone who disobey the law, so placing bans on firearms in a society built on tradition with firearms is not only political suicide, but an invitation to revolution. I can see you're from the USA so telling you this won't bring anything new to the table.

I'm all for reform, but it'll be a cold day in hell when the government decides the the general populace are unfit to carry or own firearms.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Dec 22, 2012)

Most times I don't approve of posting meme images,
but this one was far too relevant to leave behind. 
(not to mention amusing)


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## Taleweaver (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm kinda wondering how the administrators feel about this.

I mean...it's perfectly legal to post screenshots of games here.


Seeing how they are the filthiest form of pornography...


...is it okay if we post images of apparently less filthy pornography? You know...things like lesbian Leather BDSM rapeplay images. Or gimps having anal sex with a horse that's taking a shit.


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## emigre (Dec 22, 2012)

Surely having heavily armed security guards at schools is an indicator that there's been an almighty fuck up in society? I would expect this idea to be suggested for Afghanistan or some other violent third world country, not the US.


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## Issac (Dec 22, 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I saw this on another site and thought it was fitting:
"Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people" -> "videogame doesn't kill people, gamers kill people"
Meaning, it's the person behind it that has something wrong in his head... not the game, not the gun, not the movie, not the music.... (however, if it'd be harder to get a gun, maybe a few percent of these things could be prevented?)


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## BlueStar (Dec 22, 2012)

George HW Bush's resignation letter to the NRA in 1995.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/11/us/letter-of-resignation-sent-by-bush-to-rifle-association.html

They've only got worse since then.


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## Hanafuda (Dec 22, 2012)

Sterling said:


> No. Just fully automatics. A civilian sold AK47, SKS, or M16/AR15 is going to be semi-auto. Collectors are generally not going to go on rampages since they already have money (while the saying goes that money does not provide happiness, it does provide a stable environment and such people are less prone to violence.) If that's already been done then we're good. Just slap some good regular psych evaluations, background checks and a fair number of hoops to keep the crazies from owning any firearms (over simplification to be sure but you get the idea). Bans in general are ineffective on anyone who disobey the law, so placing bans on firearms in a society built on tradition with firearms is not only political suicide, but an invitation to revolution. I can see you're from the USA so telling you this won't bring anything new to the table.
> 
> I'm all for reform, but it'll be a cold day in hell when the government decides the the general populace are unfit to carry or own firearms.


 
Ok Sterling, you obviously understand the distinction between a full-auto assault rifle vs. legal civilian semi-auto sporting rifles, which the gun control crowd have attempted to label "assault weapons" due to cosmetic distinctions that do nothing to functionally distinguish them from any other semi-auto sporting rifle. But it was really Frank Cadena who I wanted to hear from, who advocated for an "assault weapon" ban on the last page. I would like to hear which guns Frank Cadena believes should be banned under this "assault weapon" ban, and what distinguishes those guns from other guns that he deems acceptable for civilian ownership.


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## Deleted-185407 (Dec 22, 2012)

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## Hanafuda (Dec 22, 2012)

The middle guys' comment in the first video above about the Ft. Hood shooting is based on the incorrect assumption that everyone walking around on a military base is armed. Not so. From my understanding, the military imposes very strict gun control on its bases, and only the military police are generally armed. If you're participating in a training activity that requires live fire, then you're issued the appropriate weapon for the exercise. But otherwise, a military base is a model for gun control, and that's why Major Hasan was able to keep on killing for so long.

Also, "statistics show the mentally ill are not more prone to do these acts of violence than normal Americans" .... umm, really? I think that shooting up a 1st grade class with a rifle is prima facie evidence that you're a mentally ill mofo. But going beyond that, Federal law prohibits anyone who's been adjudicated as mentally ill from purchasing a firearm, but the NICS background check right now doesn't include info on mental health history unless it's been volunteered to the database. It's primarily a criminal history check, and the mentally ill question is answered by the purchaser on a form at the time of buying the gun, i.e. I certify I'm not crazy. I think the NRA's suggestion of adding mental health adjudications and history to the NICS background check is a very good idea.


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## Frank Cadena (Dec 23, 2012)

@Hanafuda: Assault weapons as in weapons that are fully automatic i.e you depress the trigger and the gun will shoot continuously until the ammo is spent. I don't mind semi-auto if that is all that it does (no fully auto mode.)


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## air2004 (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm telling you NOW, and I wont say it again.... The demoncrats and the repubicans are one in the same ...and yes you read that right , re-pubic-ans..... I am for gun rights , but I dont own a gun .


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## shoyrumaster11 (Dec 23, 2012)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> Most times I don't approve of posting meme images,
> but this one was far too relevant to leave behind.
> (not to mention amusing)
> *snip*


 
Really? If I knew where to find "meme images". I'd be posting plenty (that's if they're related to the topic)

And on another note. Video Games. Porn? *NO!* I can accept people calling Video Games creepy! (Look at the Creepypasta wiki, Click for an example) But porn. NO NO NO! I don't know who the NRA are but, they can't just do something like this! Can't just slap a false statement on an entire form of entertainment!


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## Hanafuda (Dec 23, 2012)

Frank Cadena said:


> @Hanafuda: Assault weapons as in weapons that are fully automatic i.e you depress the trigger and the gun will shoot continuously until the ammo is spent. I don't mind semi-auto if that is all that it does (no fully auto mode.)


 

Ok, then. Thanks for replying. And, I think this is what many people believe an "assault weapon" to be when they hear discussion of an "assault weapon ban." And, it also seems to me that many people, especially those outside the USA, believe that any American citizen can go into a store and just put some money on the counter and walk out with a fully automatic assault rifle. This is not so. While it is still technically legal to own a full-auto firearm in the USA (they are called Class 3 weapons), it is so restricted as to be a near impossibility for the average citizen. With laws in 1934, 1968, and 1986 successively tightening the restriction on owning such weapons, it now works about like this 1) a Class 3 weapon is available for sale, 2) the interested buyer must submit an application to the government (BATFE), submit to a thorough background check (not just criminal history, everything), and pay a special tax. Then they wait for the Class 3 permit to be approved - usually takes at least 6 months - before they can actually buy the gun. The tax amount isn't much money nowadays - $200 - but it doesn't really matter because the guns themselves can easily cost as much as a nice car. Also, no new full-auto firearms manufactured after 1986 can be legally imported into the US, meaning there is a finite number out there. As a result of all these restrictions, all I can find is that there have been 2 homicides in the US since 1934 with legally owned Class 3 firearms, and one of those was committed by an off-duty police officer. These guns play effectively no role in crime inside the USA.

The "assault weapon ban" that you hear about now involves only semi-automatic firearms. The AK-47's and AR-15's (civilian version of the M-16) that are available to the civilian market here are strictly semi-automatic, and it is these guns, and others, that gun control advocates here intend to ban. They are not functionally more dangerous or lethal than any other semi-auto guns. Most of the features that make these rifles "assault weapons" under the "assault weapon ban" definition are either cosmetic or ergonomic in nature ... pistol grip, adjustable shoulder stock, "flash hider." Having a bayonet lug is another of these, and nobody who owns these guns cares much about that. Finally, the big item the gun control advocates care most about - the "high capacity" magazine, which to them means it holds more than 10 rounds. The idea is that a mass-killer will be handicapped if he can only have 10 rounds in each magazine, because he'll have to reload.



Not much of a handicap.

Now, look at this rifle. It was designed in 1892, and is still in production today. It is of a type of gun called "lever rifle." It also has a magazine, which is the long tube under the barrel. In this gun it can hold up to 26 bullets, but it is usually loaded with 19 of higher power.







Can it be fired rapidly? Yes.




But that's not an "assault weapon," because the magazine cannot be detached. Makes sense, right??

Edit: oh, and I should add this in case anyone wants to make a case for a ban on "high capacity magazines" in handguns, on the same logic as above, i.e. reloads will delay you. This guy may be the 'world record' holder, but watch how quickly one can reload ... not a Glock, no this is a revolver.



one more edit, because it shows that the politicians behind this either don't know what they're talking about, or think they can lie and convince the public. Here's NYC Mayor Bloomberg on "assault weapons." Kudos to the abc reporter for correcting him.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 23, 2012)

Hanafuda said:


> Also, "statistics show the mentally ill are not more prone to do these acts of violence than normal Americans" .... umm, really? I think that shooting up a 1st grade class with a rifle is prima facie evidence that you're a mentally ill mofo.


Yes. That is really true. And if you bothered to listen to the video, you'd know why: because "mentally ill" is such a broad term it could apply to huge amounts of people. Furthermore, there is no causal link between being mentally ill and wanting to start a massacre.

In other words...let's say you have 100 people. You do thorough mental analysis on everyone. About half of them are "mentally ill" (hey, we're talking broad terms here. No need NOT to brand people with ADHD, neurotics, an aggressive temper and any other such features as illnesses*). However, it could be well true that these never intended to shoot anyone for any reason whatsoever. Worse: if there was someone there with an urge for violence, he would just lie on all the tests. Or even worse: what if that urge isn't there yet? Or if the field of psychology isn't able to spot it yet?

Of course...to pull it of, this assumes that you can have _the entire nation scanned for psychological deficits_. Against their will, obviously (I don't think shooters would want to get tested). And not once but multiple times, as the symptoms may only pop up later.


But I'm getting off-topic. More on-topic: you're pointing out one example and you're extrapolating it to an entire group. The point is that if you shoot up a school, you're certainly mentally ill. But that doesn't mean it goes the other way around as well. Same thing with video games. I can proclaim "statistics show the video gamers are not more prone to do these acts of violence than normal Americans". Does that mean that you're going to say that "shooting up a 1st grade class with a rifle is prima facie evidence that you're a video gaming mofo"?






*there's also the fact that psychologists will become personally accountable if any of their patients later shoots up a school. Result: if I was a psychologist, I'd just label EVERYONE as unfit for carrying guns.


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## pirate4gamin (Dec 23, 2012)

The blame should go to the stupid kids mother she was a gun collector,and  practiced shooting with her son.way't raise your family


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## Sterling (Dec 23, 2012)

pirate4gamin said:


> The blame should go to the stupid kids mother she was a gun collector,and  practiced shooting with her son.way't raise your family


Umm, I've been down to the firing range a lot since I was old enough to hold a gun. I've been hunting and shit and my grandfather is a gun collector. I've never once had the urge to go shooting a place up and I'm mentally unstable. So yeah, just because he was raised in a house with a lot of guns doesn't mean that was a cause. His mother was a terrible parent from what I read, so...


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## smile72 (Dec 23, 2012)

dickfour said:


> The only way to stop a mass killer is if a good guy has a gun. So on that point the NRA s correct. No gun law is going to keep someone who's determined to kill from getting a weapon capable inflicting mass casualties . I supoort the NRA move to point the finger at games and movies. It will make the people wanting to scapegoat guns pause. It's a good tactical move.
> Here's a little fun fact. Lawful gun owners account for less that .5 of 1% of gun crime
> England's gun crimes hand gone up since their "gun bam" and when has prohibition ever worked? A gun ban or violent video have ban is just to paper over the real issues. Feel good legislation usually makes the problem worse. Does anyone feel safe in a "gun free zone" I know I don't


Well that's cause you are crazy...see if an assault weapons ban was approved and we could make also pass a bill that would ban guns firing off multiple rounds and maybe also ban high capacity magazines, who the fuck needs to fire off 30 rounds at once.  Massacres like this wouldn't happen as easily, would people still be able to kill a couple of people of course, however..they wouldn't be able to kill 20 children and  6 adults. Hell, who are we all kidding nothing will happen and I predict another massacre that kills at least 10 people before March.


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## Sterling (Dec 23, 2012)

smile72 said:


> Well that's cause you are crazy...see if an assault weapons ban was approved and we could make also pass a bill that would ban guns firing off multiple rounds and maybe also ban high capacity magazines, who the fuck needs to fire off 30 rounds at once.  Massacres like this wouldn't happen as easily, would people still be able to kill a couple of people of course, however..they wouldn't be able to kill 20 children and  6 adults. Hell, who are we all kidding nothing will happen and I predict another massacre that kills at least 10 people before March.


Ever heard the expression "One shot one kill"? Yeah, realistically 10 bullets = 10 deaths in real life civilian situations. Reloads are quick and easy. Oh and according to Hanafuda, Assault weapons have been banned since the early 1900s.


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## smile72 (Dec 23, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Ever heard the expression "One shot one kill"? Yeah, realistically 10 bullets = 10 deaths in real life civilian situations. Reloads are quick and easy. Oh and according to Hanafuda, Assault weapons have been banned since the early 1900s.


I know one shot can kill a person, I live near Chicago so  yes I do know that. Well,that depends on your definition of assault weapons, fully automatic weapons have been federally regulated since 1934.


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## SickPuppy (Dec 23, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> _"Video games are (...) the filthiest form of pornography"_ - comes from an organisation which members shoot at bambi in their spare time. Well done, NRA.


 

how does wildlife management have anything to do with the first post. somebody has to do it.


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## Qtis (Dec 23, 2012)

This may sound quite absurd to quite a few people here in regards to reloading quickness etc. As Hanafuda mentioned and the videos show, it's not really hard to change the magazines with proper gun handling. Also none of those videos even mention flip-clips. Not sure if that's the proper term used in English, but the basic idea is to used tape or other methods to attach another clip upside down to the one inserted already into the weapon. Changing magazines is extremely fast (possibly faster than the TDSA instructor video above) and as there is no need to worry about dust in the clips (I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to start shooting after getting clips full of dirt). From personal experience (both live ammunition and blank practice rounds), making a switch from either a proper clip holder or flip mag is just fast. Although in this case it was a fully automatic assault rifle, pretty much the same result can be done with a semi-automatic or even a single fire version of the same rifle I used. 

Military grade (mostly rifles/carbines (AK-47, M4 and variants, etc in this case)) are designed for fast pace situations. Luckily most shootings have had the shooter experience jamming in the weapons. Sometimes the shooter has even left the more powerful weapon because of not having the ability/time to fix it. I don't know any other reason to own a military type rifle or carbine except having shooting as a hobby. There are a lot better weapons out there for hunting.

I may be a bit biased in this situation because I live in Finland were gun laws are very strict (and possibly becoming even more strict in the following years). Still, as hunting is very popular, there are quite a few guns around. If someone can honestly tell me good reason to own a weapon for other uses than hunting or other hobbies, I'm all up for it :3


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## Canonbeat234 (Dec 23, 2012)

Blaming something on a real incident on a video game is not only weak but two-faced to say the least. Also incidents never  seem to complain about the individual's getting their resources to own a weapon? That question right there was never discussed about taking steps nor precedures to limit the possession of owning a gun. The NRA is nothing but a scapegoat so that the government won't be responsible for the deaths of innocent lives that all of sudden its NRA's fault! How can you place fault on a organization that only encourages people to 'Protect' themselves with a gun and learn how to use them properly?


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## Deleted-185407 (Dec 23, 2012)

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## Vulpes Abnocto (Dec 23, 2012)

Excellent post, Hanafuda. Just for accuracy I'm going to correct one point.



Hanafuda said:


> The AK-47's and AR-15's (civilian version of the M-16)


 
The civilian variant of the AK-47 is known as an SKS.
The AK-47 is far less available to the general public.
True it is used in some military groups around the world, but in the US these rifles are far less regulated (though the last time I checked they were required to have the _non-detachable_ 10 round magazine).


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## Frank Cadena (Dec 23, 2012)

@Hanafuda: Thanks for the informative post. Honestly there was a few things that I didn't know. Seems like I was under the misconception that Assault Weapons = Assault Rifles.

On topic: M.A.D anyone? I heard that the NRA wants to put armed guards in an elementary school to stop this from happening again. Do you guys think this is a waste of money that could be better spent looking out and caring for those with mental health issues ? Things like paranoid schizophrenia, rage and delusional issue etc. ? Or is this really the way to go, posting guys with guns everywhere, to prevent another shooting rampage from happening?


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## Hanafuda (Dec 23, 2012)

Frank Cadena said:


> I heard that the NRA wants to put armed guards in an elementary school to stop this from happening again. Do you guys think this is a waste of money that could be better spent looking out and caring for those with mental health issues ?


 
It's a waste of money. I think the NRA's suggestion of including adjudications of mental illness in the background check is a good idea*, but the armed guard or policeman in every school is unnecessary. It would start out all serious, but before long all you'd end up with is a donut eatin' dickhead in every school, flirting with the teachers. I could be wrong about this though ... I'm a libertarian so I tend to resist suggestions for even more bloated government. I know some school districts have been having police patrols in their schools since at least the 80's, but that's mostly been for high school. So even if this were implemented, it wouldn't be so revolutionary and it wouldn't mess up the kids. I have a 9 year old, and from what I can see with her and her classmates, little kids really like cops, so they'd probably think it was perfectly normal and sensible to have Mr. Policeman at their school.


Edit: * and it's a good idea because, whether you agree or not, Federal Law prohibits anyone who's been adjudicated as mentally ill from possessing a firearm. So as long as that's the law, shouldn't the system be set up to screen for that? We should at least enforce the laws we have, right?



Taleweaver said:


> But I'm getting off-topic. More on-topic: you're pointing out one example and you're extrapolating it to an entire group. The point is that if you shoot up a school, you're certainly mentally ill. But that doesn't mean it goes the other way around as well. Same thing with video games.


 
Same thing with guns.


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