# brawl or melee?



## machomuu (May 20, 2012)

And then Guild comes in and trashes all of the Melee fans.


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## Luigipenguin (May 20, 2012)

Alright im a melee fan and im wondering if you like brawl or melee?

MELEE

Pros:
Awesome Multiplayer
Great characters
Air shield(you freeze then fall)
Dr mario clones ETC
single target test 
race to finish
Crazy hand was born
Adventure mode
Master hand glitch

CONS:
no online players
no subspace like thing
ULTRA HARD COMPUTER!!(i mean like donkey kong)




BRAWL:
PROS:
More characters
eh... to lazy to add more. Just tell me what you like


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## BenRK (May 20, 2012)

Neither. I'm simply not a fighting game fan, Smash Bros being no exception. I tried to like it, but it's all the same button mashing mess (anyone who complains about me using the term button mashing clearly needs to get out more ). Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It's all luck.


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## machomuu (May 20, 2012)

BenRK said:


> Neither. I'm simply not a fighting game fan, Smash Bros being no exception. I tried to like it, but it's all the same button mashing mess (anyone who complains about me using the term button mashing clearly needs to get out more ). Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It's all luck.


Except it's not, SSB is very simple, so button-mashing would actually make you more likely to lose *because* of the simplicity.  And if you don't like it, why'd you post here?


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## Clydefrosch (May 21, 2012)

brawl for characters, melee for controls.

god, i have no idea how they could fuck up the controls like that, when they had them perfect in melee


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## Deleted_171835 (May 21, 2012)

Melee is better for competitive playing.

Brawl is more _fun_ in parties.


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## BenRK (May 21, 2012)

Just because I didn't enjoy something means I'm not allowed to express an opinion?


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## machomuu (May 21, 2012)

BenRK said:


> Just because I didn't enjoy something means I'm not allowed to express an opinion?


I never said you weren't, it was just a simple question.


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## BenRK (May 21, 2012)

And I answered.


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## YayMii (May 21, 2012)

BenRK said:


> And I answered.


No you didn't. He asked why you posted, and your response was pretty much_ 'wai not?_'.




Clydefrosch said:


> brawl for characters, melee for controls.
> 
> god, i have no idea how they could fuck up the controls like that, when they had them perfect in melee


You do realize you can customize your controls, and that you can use almost any controller you like? If you wanted to, just plug in a GC controller and change the control scheme if it was that different to Melee.

On-topic: Haven't played much of Melee, so I'm not really used to how it handles. So I prefer Brawl.


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## machomuu (May 21, 2012)

I prefer Melee  for Mewtwo, the stages, and the missions (God do I miss those), but I prefer Brawl for the additions, the music, and most of all: The Hacks.


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## BenRK (May 21, 2012)

YayMii said:


> BenRK said:
> 
> 
> > And I answered.
> ...



So? Without criticism, nothing can improve. Effectively, you guys are setting up a "club" with a sign out front that says "haters not allowed!!" And yet, I'm not a hater! I'm not sitting here, raging about people liking it because I didn't. I have not ONCE condemned someone for enjoying Smash Bros. I have given a reason why I didn't like them, and yet I'm told to *bleep* off. Great conversation we're having here. Who's the hater here?


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## 1234turtles (May 21, 2012)

Melee brings back nostalgia of when i had a gamecube, my first home console.

So I would go with melee.


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## Clydefrosch (May 21, 2012)

YayMii said:


> BenRK said:
> 
> 
> > And I answered.
> ...




thats not what i meant, theres a clear difference if you play melee and brawl with gc controller

in brawl, characters movement is is not as exactly executed as it was in melee. its kinda sluggish, to put it into a word. jumps arent as precise and running is different too


also @benrk:
the question was really simply, what do you prefer, brawl or melee and why?
you not being able to actually answer that question kinda does make your opinion uninteresting in this special thread.
obviously you can have your opinion and you can voice it, but in this topic with this question, it has no value as it does not answer the question asked.
your argument that, without criticism, nothing can improve, is invalid, as there is nothing to improve here, though i do know what you mean.

noone is setting up a club where you arent allowed in, hater or not hater, but the topic just does not want your opinion

thats like when someone asks a clear yes / no question and people answer with "maybe". great, you can say maybe, but its not answering the question.


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## machomuu (May 21, 2012)

Clydefrosch said:


> YayMii said:
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> 
> > BenRK said:
> ...


The thing is that it's more realistic.  Rather than jumping immediately like they did in Melee, they go through the motions, and thus the player has to wait for the animations before the character actually jumps.


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## machomuu (May 21, 2012)

Clydefrosch said:


> if they want to be realistic, characters should not be able to even jump as high as their actual height,


If they did that they'd be breaking several canons.


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## Clydefrosch (May 21, 2012)

if they want to be realistic, characters should not be able to even jump as high as their actual height,


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## Hyro-Sama (May 21, 2012)

I had some really intense matches with friend on Melee.

Mostly in Brawl the matches are clusterfuck Free for Alls.


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## prowler (May 21, 2012)

playstation all-stars battle royale.


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## triassic911 (May 21, 2012)

Melee is better imo in terms of combat and balance. Brawl was dumbed down.


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## BenRK (May 21, 2012)

prowler said:


> playstation all-stars battle royale.



Le-gasp! You're not allowed to enjoy a different game!!!


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## iggloovortex (May 21, 2012)

melee didnt have tripping. 'nuff said.

but in a more serious note, i agree with what was said before. Brawl WAS more fun, but after playing Brawl & Brawl+ for years and going back to melee, the rush of the speed and lack of tripping as well as the un-"realistic" (if you can even call it that) movements and animations feels nice. . . good. . . pretty fucking great. so with that i say melee. because if i can play brawl as a skilled smash bros veteran and have my little cousin beat me because i float everywhere, theres a problem


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## Gahars (May 21, 2012)

Ah, this old argument. It never fails to disappoint.


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## Hells Malice (May 21, 2012)

Me and friends played melee a hell of a lot more than Brawl, but I didn't find brawl to be a bad game in the least.
My only complaint was no Dr.Mario. who happened to be my main (and since they fucked Mario royally in Brawl, no dice there either).

They both played differently enough that diehard melee fans couldn't cope with it and thus started crying about it being worse instead of just getting used to it.
I can only understand Mario fans being outraged since he really did drop to a pichu tier in Brawl.

Simply because I played it more and am better at it, i'll say Melee is my favorite.


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## The Catboy (May 21, 2012)

It's really hard to say which one I enjoy more. Brawl has a lot of features, like the The Subspace Emissary, a wider range of characters, and several other features I loved. But it also felt a bit rushed to me, it seemed like it was missing something. The game would have been perfect if it had downloadable content to make up for the missing characters.
Melee, just so much replay value in that game. It had a lot of clone characters in it, but it was still overall really fun. Compared to Brawl, it didn't feel as rushed and honestly seemed like they put a lot more time into making the game. But I do tend to play Melee a lot more alone than with friends, which isn't a bad thing nor a good thing, it's just a fact.

Overall honestly I would have to say I enjoy Melee more than Brawl. Brawl may have some features and characters I like, but the rest of the game is really only fun playing multiplayer.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 21, 2012)

BenRK said:


> Neither. I'm simply not a fighting game fan, Smash Bros being no exception. I tried to like it, but it's all the same button mashing mess (anyone who complains about me using the term button mashing clearly needs to get out more ). Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It's all luck.



It's actually a lot more than simple button mashing. Figuring out which attack is stronger than the opponents so you can over power them, pressing shield + dodge and being able to dodge their attacks while trying to land yours, it's a really fast game where simple button mashing will get you destroyed.

Anyways, Melee wins. It's a much faster game and it's more fun. The roster list was perfect while there were simply too many in Brawl. The levels were a lot better too.


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## BenRK (May 21, 2012)

You, sir, fell right into my trap! Bwhahahahaha! And so on.

While it may not be the case, I really don't feel like these kinds of games have any kind of strategy beyond "use the heavy attack when your opponents health is low". How do you get to this move? Some stupid combination of buttons... Unless you're me and you mapped the kicks to Wiimote flailing! In which case you're golden. Yet even knowing what to do and how to do it means nothing. As I've said before, it all comes down to luck. Brawl is probably the worst when it comes to this too, especially when it comes to the camera screwing you up. Nothing spells disaster when you can't even tell who you are on a screen where too much is going on.

I will say button mashing was an exaggeration. Though really, when you've mapped the moves to swings, are you going to do much more then flail your arms about when you're next to your opponent? Are you just going to repeat moves over and over again regardless how they're mapped?


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## Eerpow (May 21, 2012)

Melee has a crazy meta game for competetive play and is by far more balanced than brawl.
Brawl has terrible balancing isssues and is verydumbed down thanks to stuff like tripping and the slower gameplay, just like Mario Kart Wii it was the weakest entry in the series.
But seeing how Nintendo are trying to get the core audience back and how Sakurai made KI:U the complex and balanced brawler it is, I'm expecting the best out of the next entry in the series. I really hope they take their time with this.




BenRK said:


> You, sir, fell right into my trap! Bwhahahahaha! And so on.
> 
> While it may not be the case, I really don't feel like these kinds of games have any kind of strategy beyond "use the heavy attack when your opponents health is low". How do you get to this move? Some stupid combination of buttons... Unless you're me and you mapped the kicks to Wiimote flailing! In which case you're golden. Yet even knowing what to do and how to do it means nothing. As I've said before, it all comes down to luck. Brawl is probably the worst when it comes to this too, especially when it comes to the camera screwing you up. Nothing spells disaster when you can't even tell who you are on a screen where too much is going on.
> 
> I will say button mashing was an exaggeration. Though really, when you've mapped the moves to swings, are you going to do much more then flail your arms about when you're next to your opponent? Are you just going to repeat moves over and over again regardless how they're mapped?



Please look up some combo vids and pro players for melee, there is so much strategy to how it's played, even more so when items are turned off.


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## Sterling (May 21, 2012)

Melee

Pros:

Fast paced combat
Less character clones
Balanced character tiers
Balanced move sets (no air dodging over and over, etc.)
No pratfailing
More competitive

Cons

No user mods (like Brawl)
(Melee is better than brawl in almost every single way)

I won't even touch Brawl. The online sucks, the characters have more clones than the R4 does, and the fast paced combat was completely forgotten. Besides the fact that many of the characters are broken and completely take all the fun out of the game.  Yes, I'm a Brawl hater.)


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## Mazor (May 21, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> ...


Do you play Smash? If you didn't know of its existence already, you should check out this forum, Sweden (and Norway, Denmark, Finland and many other farther away European countries) actually has a very active smash community with players of all skill levels, including complete beginners and the very best player in the world. Focus is on Melee only since Brawl died out in Sweden around the time of the game's European release in 2008 as everyone found the competitive gameplay to be vastly inferior.

As for me, even though I love Melee, my favorite game in the series is SSB64. That game is broken as fuck when you get past intermediate level of play with a lot of crazy 0->death combos that you cannot get out of, but this is what I personally love so much about it.


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## Eerpow (May 21, 2012)

Mazor said:


> Eerpow said:
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> > ...
> ...


I've been trying to get in to it but I'm occupied with learning some F-Zero GX at the moment, I will definitly check out the Swedish smash community.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 21, 2012)

BenRK said:


> You, sir, fell right into my trap! Bwhahahahaha! And so on.
> 
> While it may not be the case, I really don't feel like these kinds of games have any kind of strategy beyond "use the heavy attack when your opponents health is low". How do you get to this move? Some stupid combination of buttons... Unless you're me and you mapped the kicks to Wiimote flailing! In which case you're golden. Yet even knowing what to do and how to do it means nothing. As I've said before, it all comes down to luck. Brawl is probably the worst when it comes to this too, especially when it comes to the camera screwing you up. Nothing spells disaster when you can't even tell who you are on a screen where too much is going on.
> 
> I will say button mashing was an exaggeration. Though really, when you've mapped the moves to swings, are you going to do much more then flail your arms about when you're next to your opponent? Are you just going to repeat moves over and over again regardless how they're mapped?



I think you've just proven to everybody here, that you haven't played Super Smash Bros. before.


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## Luigipenguin (May 21, 2012)

Who haven't played smash bros? That is the popular game for the nintendo consoles


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## Tsuteto (May 22, 2012)

I'm more Brawl, because, well, I find it more fun.  People who aren't uber-skilled can actually fight, and that's what I like more in a game, is being able to compete with more people and not shffl-shffl-whatever else here (I never got too advanced in the techniques for Melee, since my Peach was good enough without all that stuff) and they can't do anything about it because they can't tell what's going on.

And, if anything else, Zelda is just that much better in Brawl than Melee.  No, I do not personally believe she's pit-bottom tier at all.  I think they vastly misjudge her because no one represents her.


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## BenRK (May 22, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I think you've just proven to everybody here, that you haven't played Super Smash Bros. before.



Jumping to conclusions, eh? I just think a lot of people are in denial for some reason. What I think people SHOULD do is not give a *flip* about what I think and just enjoy what they want! Who cares what I think about something you enjoy? Is me not enjoying it going to somehow render your enjoyment of the game null?

My advice to you (and everyone else really). If you like it, then good for you! Don't worry about one guy not enjoying it! It's just going to make everyone angry.

On a side note, I did own it. I bought it on launch day. I played for nearly a year off and on, trying to get into it. I didn't like it. I sold it. Get over it.


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## Fishaman P (May 22, 2012)

Melee is awesome, especially if you compete at a high level, but I gotta hand it to Brawl for its moddability.  Brawl Minus, anyone?


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## machomuu (May 22, 2012)

Fishaman P said:


> Melee is awesome, especially if you compete at a high level, but I gotta hand it to Brawl for its moddability.  Brawl Minus, anyone?


I enjoy it for texture, character, and stage hacking, but most of all I enjoy it for the music hacking.  I have yet to try Brawl Minus, though, but I do have Brawl+ on a separate SD card, which I've played a little of.


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## Hadrian (May 22, 2012)

I prefer the gameplay of Brawl, seemed more varied and fun also the single player adventure mode is better thought out and is something that's good to play.

Edit: Wait no got them confuse.
Main fighting: Melee
Adventure: Brawl.

I never got into the N64 game even when it first came out, it seemed pretty mediocre but I'm happy this series has continued and I hope the Wii U/3DS side by side development doesn't screw it up.


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## Minox (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm not some hipster who thinks that only the older games are better or some idiot who thinks Super Smash Bros. is a highly competitive and balanced fighting game.


So just because something is older means that you can't like it more than newer games in the series? That's news to me.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 22, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not some hipster who thinks that only the older games are better or some idiot who thinks Super Smash Bros. is a highly competitive and balanced fighting game.
> ...



I'm saying there's people who like older games purely because they're older even when newer ones are far superior.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Brawl is just a better game that's more fun.  I played Melee for like 5 hours straight last weekend (because my friend's copy of Brawl was broken) and I was like "Wow, I really miss Brawl."
> 
> I'm not some hipster who thinks that only the older games are better or some idiot who thinks Super Smash Bros. is a highly competitive and balanced fighting game.



It's more fast paced, and still having the controls being able to respond when pressing buttons that fast, makes for a better game IMO. Brawl is good, the only things I hate about it are the insanely long load times, the single player, Final Smash's, and the pace, it's waaaay too slow for my liking. When I jump with Link (my main), I don't like to float in the air for a little bit in Brawl. Also, just for liking older games, doesn't make anyone a hipster lol. That word gets thrown around too much it's lost all meaning.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 22, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> It's more fast paced, and still having the controls being able to respond when pressing buttons that fast, makes for a better game IMO. Brawl is good, the only things I hate about it are the insanely long load times, the single player, Final Smash's, and the pace, it's waaaay too slow for my liking. When I jump with Link (my main), I don't like to float in the air for a little bit in Brawl. Also, just for liking older games, doesn't make anyone a hipster lol. That word gets thrown around too much it's lost all meaning.



Okay, a few of your complaints:
Speed: I never found anything wrong with Brawl's speed. And the buttons are just as responsive.
Long load times: Which I don't remember. In fact I remember playing Melee and not being too fond of some of the loads in there.
The single player: Because Melee had such excellent single player? At least this one was actually fun, playing like a multiplayer platformer beat 'em up. People just cry about "IT DIDN'T USE NINTENDO CHARACTERS WELL ENOUGH!" Oh who gives a fuck, it's a crossover fighter. Do you remember playing Marvel vs. Capcom and complaining about how the crossover wasn't explained well?
Final Smashes: Considering tons of real fighters have been using the same mechanic, why is it hated in Brawl? If you don't like it, turn it off.
Also, as I said before, I meant that some people will say an older game is better than a newer version of it because it's "older". There are instances when an older version of a game is better than its sequel, but people try to think that's the case far too often to be "retro". It's an obnoxious trend you notice when you see enough "gaming hipsters". Someone I knew was like that and would try saying the same thing.


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## Minox (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Minox_IX said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


Right, so indeed there may be people like that out there, but I do have to ask - did you just insult everyone who likes Melee more than Brawl just for that? Personally I can say that I prefer Melee to Brawl because I find it to be a more fun game, does that make me retarded?

Opinions are nice, but please leave the insults out of it thanks.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 22, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> Right, so indeed there may be people like that out there, but I do have to ask - did you just insult everyone who likes Melee more than Brawl just for that? Personally I can say that I prefer Melee to Brawl because I find it to be a more fun game, so does that make me retarded?
> 
> Opinions are nice, but please leave the insults out of it thanks.



I just don't see why people like Melee more than Brawl when Brawl practically plays the same, minus some additions (note, additions, not subtractions) and has better graphics, more characters, more stages, and generally just more stuff.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > It's more fast paced, and still having the controls being able to respond when pressing buttons that fast, makes for a better game IMO. Brawl is good, the only things I hate about it are the insanely long load times, the single player, Final Smash's, and the pace, it's waaaay too slow for my liking. When I jump with Link (my main), I don't like to float in the air for a little bit in Brawl. Also, just for liking older games, doesn't make anyone a hipster lol. That word gets thrown around too much it's lost all meaning.
> ...



Nah, I don't like it because it's retro lol.

You may have never found anything wrong with Brawl's speed, but there is a decrease in it compared to Melee. Me and my friend spent about a month straight playing Melee again, and 100% the game (all trophies and everything else). Like I said, I use Link mostly, and I notice a HUUUUGE difference.

The load times I don't what you're talking about in Melee. Me and my friend would boot the game up and in 10 seconds we'd already be fighting.

I actually preferred the single player in Melee. It was simple, short, but still very challenging and fun. I will admit I can see why people would say Brawl's single player is better, but for me, it was a huge disappointment and something I can't see me playing through again.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 22, 2012)

iluvfupaburgers said:


> i dont really enjoy smash bros much because i get confused which character is mine  but i will go with brawl since it has more characters to choose from. and if you dont like playing with the wiimote, you can always plug a GC controller and play like melee



To be honest it's like physically impossible to play with a Wiimote. I tried it once and ended up throwing my lives away by falling down pits.

I can't play any SSB game without a Gamecube controller anymore.


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## iluvfupaburgers (May 22, 2012)

i dont really enjoy smash bros much because i get confused which character is mine  but i will go with brawl since it has more characters to choose from. and if you dont like playing with the wiimote, you can always plug a GC controller and play like melee


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## gamefan5 (May 22, 2012)

I prefer melee for it's fast-paced evironnement and use of techniques. (wavedash, SHFFL, L-canceling, XD etc)
However I can see why Sakurai removed some of the techniques in brawl because those who are experts usually owns people that aren't.

Then again, I love brawl, mainly because of it's hacking community. XD (And Project M).


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## The Catboy (May 22, 2012)

Guild, I don't see why you have be an ass to everyone who is a Melee fan.
Brawl is a great game, but not everyone has to enjoy it.
Personally I felt the game had long ass load times, repetitive music, and felt rushed. It's not bad and I enjoy playing it, but honestly I enjoy Melee more. Me enjoying Melee more has nothing to do with the age.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 22, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Guild, I don't see why you have be an ass to everyone who is a Melee fan.
> Brawl is a great game, but not everyone has to enjoy it.
> Personally I felt the game had long ass load times, repetitive music, and felt rushed. It's not bad and I enjoy playing it, but honestly I enjoy Melee more. Me enjoying Melee more has nothing to do with the age.



Dude, the Brawl soundtrack is literally like 300+ songs. How is that repetitive?

I'm just annoyed at people who over criticize Brawl and think it somehow marred the franchise when it brought so much more to the table than Melee. Yeah, it flubbed in a lot of ways, but some things I don't even attribute to the game. Poor online was because of a system with poor online. The level editor was still effective and if you brought anything super complicated then it would end up being an inaccessible mess.


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## The Catboy (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Guild, I don't see why you have be an ass to everyone who is a Melee fan.
> ...


Most of the time they play the same intro song in the background. After the 10th time listening to that song, it gets old really fast.
It still does give you the right to call everyone who is a Melee fan a retard.


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## Deltaechoe (May 22, 2012)

Melee, mainly cuz wave dashing (and shining if I was playing fox) was fun.  Hooray for broken characters and the resulting tournament winnings


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## Mazor (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I just don't see why people like Melee more than Brawl when Brawl practically plays the same, minus some additions (note, additions, not subtractions) and has better graphics, more characters, more stages, and generally just more stuff.


Brawl single player rapes Melee single player, why people argue against that I don't know. It's also cool to have better graphics, more stages and more side content all of which Brawl offers.

But when it comes to comparing the actual gameplay, the actual fighting, the significant mechanic differences are that Brawl adds tripping while removing hitstun, controlled air dodge, lag canceling, wavedashing, dash dancing and a lot more stuff that added depth to Melee. Of course these things aren't all individually relevant for the average player, but it all adds up to what many consider an inferior experience as evident by Melee still being the most popular game in the series. Brawl also brings balancing issues far worse than those seen in Melee, making tiers relevant not only for tourney[censored]s but also for beginner players (case in point is that Shiek can combo Fox from 0% to 100% guaranteed by spamming the same forward A attack as long as she gets the first hit in and the numerous infinite chaingrabs that are only limited by stage size and sometimes not even that).

Also, we had this discussion before.


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## machomuu (May 22, 2012)

Mazor said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't see why people like Melee more than Brawl when Brawl practically plays the same, minus some additions (note, additions, not subtractions) and has better graphics, more characters, more stages, and generally just more stuff.
> ...


I strongly disagree, Melee had the much stronger and (imo) much more enjoyable Mission Modes.  It also had Adventure mode, which was always fun (though the Subspace was good, too; and the effort they put into it was astounding).  However, I like both games equally, for different reasons.


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## AkiroWolfman (May 22, 2012)

I prefer Brawl overall. However in saying that there is nothing bad about Melee in the least (except all the clones like Pichu and Doctor Mario, smartest thing they did was take them out). Brawl I prefer because of the large cast. Story Mode etc it just seemed better.

On a personal note Kirby was more powerful in Brawl, I liked that.


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## Mazor (May 22, 2012)

machomuu said:


> Mazor said:
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> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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For the event matches I can at least maybe see where you are coming from, but adventure mode? That shit is so vastly inferior to Brawl's SSE that it's ridiculous. The reality of the matter is that zero thought was put into Melee's single player whereas a lot was put into Brawl's. I'm not saying this as a Brawl fanboy, but as someone who has a great preference for Melee over Brawl.

Edit: Quoted.


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## Yumi (May 23, 2012)

-chips in-

I'd pick neither. 64 Smash bros. actually has more SMASH then the later ones.

but...if i had to pick either one, it'd be Brawl. The characters pace is almost becoming real live pacing(slowish) and so is..the "smash". Has lot of neat characters that many love and/or hate. I wish they could have just added Daisy. Why not??? ;/
Adventure mode..i mean Space Mode Zero something was boring! Though the clips were nice. I think Melee adventure mode was much much more fun. You were in different worlds of each Nintendo characters. They should have kept that instead.
The specials were lame. Except for Luigis. I dont understand Foxes or Wolfs...they are just big tanks that fall off the screen.
Items were OK.
Mission mode was alright.
Graphics were cool.
Stages were neat.
I think i am forgetting stuff...if they're forgettable then..it has done its job.
Most of that is negative but why did i choose brawl??
Because of the music! 
You can choose what music will be playing in the background which made the game for me very enjoyable besides the fact of all the flaws i think are flaws.

Yep.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 23, 2012)

Soothing_Pulse said:


> I'd pick neither. 64 Smash bros. actually has more SMASH then the later ones.



I'd try playing the original SSB in mid-March (I remember playing it with some friends at my birthday party) and that game seriously sucks ass. It was great when it came out but Melee just completely punched it in the groin and Brawl even more so.

It has the worst balance of any game in the series, it's incredibly slow, the roster is incredibly limited, and there's not even like side-B attacks for Christ's sake. It's unbearable to play it in retrospect when there's Melee and Brawl to choose from.


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## Tsuteto (May 23, 2012)

Scanned a lot, haven't read in depth, but I really have to agree with a lot of Guild's points.  Brawl was simply improved to be better in terms of gameplay than melee, and really made it actually fun.  Melee got boring after awhile, but you can always enjoy Brawl.  The point that I know Guild wouldn't agree with is the competitiveness wasn't up there.  Yes, because it wasn't as fastpaced, and it doesn't combo as well.  But that really doesn't bother me at all, and I rank about the same in either Melee or Brawl at competitions.

That, and I think Brawl is just better because it's fun to just kick someone in the face with Zelda   Or annoy the crap out of them with Din's Fire.  You know, confusing them with Farore's Wind is nice too ^^


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## triassic911 (May 23, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Minox_IX said:
> 
> 
> > Right, so indeed there may be people like that out there, but I do have to ask - did you just insult everyone who likes Melee more than Brawl just for that? Personally I can say that I prefer Melee to Brawl because I find it to be a more fun game, so does that make me retarded?
> ...


The reason people like Melee than Brawl is because the core of the game (fighting) is there, and it's balanced. Try doing any of these things in Brawl:


To this day, there are tourneys out there that use Melee, and NOT Brawl. Brawl is fun, but it was dumbed down. It was made much easier. The thing that disappointed people the most was the fighting. It was no longer balanced (Metaknight!!!), and some techniques from Melee were rendered useless. The series went from a game where someone with more skill can triumph over someone with lesser skill to a game where you can jump around, hit A(b) and hope for the best. Also, more things does not make a better game. As an example, look at Counter-Strike & Call of Duty. You really shouldn't push your opinion as fact (& insult others who disagree). It reveals your true colors. You may enjoy Brawl for being pretty, but many others enjoy Melee because of the fighting/core mechanics.


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## Tsuteto (May 24, 2012)

You over exaggerated Brawl.  It definitely is not "Push A to win".  Skill is involved.  Maybe not the technical degree of skill that you thrive in melee about, but skill nonetheless.  As for being balanced, tournaments typically consisted of the same characters over and over.  Brawl (especially now that Meta is banned) is more diverse with the character use.  Heck, I use ZELDA and win, who is considered next to bottom.

Yes, Brawl is prettier, as an overall GAME though, it's better, in both of our opinions.  Melee was certainly more competitive with the techniques available, but it was not entertaining save for those who could win tournaments (which, by the way, typically turn out to be the biggest douchebags I've ever encountered, which also detracts from the entertaiment).


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## triassic911 (May 24, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> You over exaggerated Brawl.  It definitely is not "Push A to win".  Skill is involved.  Maybe not the technical degree of skill that you thrive in melee about, but skill nonetheless.  As for being balanced, tournaments typically consisted of the same characters over and over.  Brawl (especially now that Meta is banned) is more diverse with the character use.  Heck, I use ZELDA and win, who is considered next to bottom.
> 
> Yes, Brawl is prettier, as an overall GAME though, it's better, in both of our opinions.  Melee was certainly more competitive with the techniques available, but it was not entertaining save for those who could win tournaments (which, by the way, typically turn out to be the biggest douchebags I've ever encountered, which also detracts from the entertaiment).


Haha, my point was that there is less skill involved for Brawl. I'm not a douchebag, honest!


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## Guild McCommunist (May 24, 2012)

triassic911 said:


> Haha, my point was that there is less skill involved for Brawl. I'm not a douchebag, honest!



Honestly the only skill in SSB seems to be learning ridiculous glitches and exploits.


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## Terenigma (May 24, 2012)

Always prefered brawl, it was simply more fun. It had more character, more stages, more customizing options, the story mode being playable 2 player was awesome and honestly i cant find anything wrong with the game and yet people still whine about it not being like melee coz it was a more "serious" fighter. If i wanted to play a fighting game for its serious competative nature then ill go play street fighter or one of those type of games which are designed for that.

Honestly i got bored of melee because everytime i played it, it was all about winning and not about having fun, with brawl i really like the fact that when im playing with my family or my GF that they can beat me sometimes, hell i can enjoy playing it with them and more importently, they can enjoy playing it with me. Isnt that what smash brothers was all about? a fun fighting game to be played with a group of people?


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## Tsuteto (May 24, 2012)

triassic911 said:


> Tsuteto said:
> 
> 
> > You over exaggerated Brawl.  It definitely is not "Push A to win".  Skill is involved.  Maybe not the technical degree of skill that you thrive in melee about, but skill nonetheless.  As for being balanced, tournaments typically consisted of the same characters over and over.  Brawl (especially now that Meta is banned) is more diverse with the character use.  Heck, I use ZELDA and win, who is considered next to bottom.
> ...


Good ^^ Nothing else really needs to be said there then, so... PIE!


Terenigma said:


> Honestly i got bored of melee because everytime i played it, it was all about winning and not about having fun, with brawl i really like the fact that when im playing with my family or my GF that they can beat me sometimes, hell i can enjoy playing it with them and more importently, they can enjoy playing it with me. Isnt that what smash brothers was all about? a fun fighting game to be played with a group of people?


No.  I mean, Yes.  I mean, depends on who you ask.  But that's everything though.  Games in and of itself could be political... okay, nevermind, they are just as bad as politics with the right set of people.


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## triassic911 (May 24, 2012)

Terenigma said:


> Always prefered brawl, it was simply more fun. It had more character, more stages, more customizing options, the story mode being playable 2 player was awesome and honestly i cant find anything wrong with the game and yet people still whine about it not being like melee coz it was a more "serious" fighter. If i wanted to play a fighting game for its serious competative nature then ill go play street fighter or one of those type of games which are designed for that.
> 
> Honestly i got bored of melee because everytime i played it, it was all about winning and not about having fun, *with brawl i really like the fact that when im playing with my family or my GF that they can beat me sometime*s, hell i can enjoy playing it with them and more importently, they can enjoy playing it with me. Isnt that what smash brothers was all about? a fun fighting game to be played with a group of people?


That's a pro for Brawl. It has the fun factor. My brother can beat me in Brawl and it's not rage-inducing.


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## Zerosuit connor (May 24, 2012)

I think Melee kinda changed the series for the better, in fact Brawl kinda furthered melee's efforts and brought a whole truckload of new charecters and features and attracted more players, all in you gotta go...


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## Yumi (May 24, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'd try playing the original SSB in mid-March (I remember playing it with some friends at my birthday party) and that game seriously sucks ass. It was great when it came out but Melee just completely punched it in the groin and Brawl even more so.
> 
> It has the worst balance of any game in the series, it's incredibly slow, the roster is incredibly limited, and there's not even like side-B attacks for Christ's sake. It's unbearable to play it in retrospect when there's Melee and Brawl to choose from.



I agree to an extent. SSBM is competitive. SSB is a party game. SSBB is much more serious. The way i see it.
I agree Brawl defeats Melee easily because of the roster and extra stuff but something about it just makes it feel...sluggish.
I feel like you could dash more better in Melee than in Brawl and...well I'm just gonna stop here. This is like a "Is there a God?" debate.


i will forever find SSB more fun and comically competitive and will have the most, and literally, "Smash" out of all the series for me.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 24, 2012)

Also I don't really see how people think SSB is balanced or competitive. People consider it "balanced" once you take away all the items and only play on Final Destination (a completely flat stage) and possibly ban certain characters. Which defeats the whole purpose of the game. That's like saying Street Fighter is "balanced" if everyone plays Ryu.

Plus I don't find Melee requiring more "skill" if the only things considered "skill" are abusing glitches and exploits. If all these glitches and exploits were meant to be fundamental mechanics, they would've remained in Brawl. Instead the developers realized these flaws and made the game, in fact, more balanced by eliminating stupid exploits. You complain about Meta Knight but how much damage does Jigglypuff do in Melee? They nerfed that at least.


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## Tsuteto (May 24, 2012)

For the record, the dev team did recognize the fact that wavedashing would be possible in Melee, they just didn't bother actually removing it.  Not that they recognized the amount it could be abused, I'm sure, but it was a glitch they didn't bother with in removing.


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## Luigipenguin (May 24, 2012)

OBJECTION!!!!! Brawl is not balanced in my opinion. WTF is with brawl cheap characters. Take it with Ike,sonic etc when i was fighting them i had no chance to even put a dent into them. Melee had no really cheap characters, and melee does take SKILL. I did Extreme in brawl. Bamm. I survived just doing two continues. Melee i did very hard and i did like 3-5 continues. See how much skill it takes to just kill a annoying enemy?


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## Luigipenguin (May 24, 2012)

Soothing_Pulse said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > I'd try playing the original SSB in mid-March (I remember playing it with some friends at my birthday party) and that game seriously sucks ass. It was great when it came out but Melee just completely punched it in the groin and Brawl even more so.
> ...





Damn it girl Games are suppose to be fun. Not serious. When are they gonna learn that SSB games are supposed to be compettive


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## Tsuteto (May 24, 2012)

Luigipenguin said:


> OBJECTION!!!!! Brawl is not balanced in my opinion. WTF is with brawl cheap characters. Take it with Ike,sonic etc when i was fighting them i had no chance to even put a dent into them. Melee had no really cheap characters, and melee does take SKILL. I did Extreme in brawl. Bamm. I survived just doing two continues. Melee i did very hard and i did like 3-5 continues. See how much skill it takes to just kill a annoying enemy?





Luigipenguin said:


> Damn it girl Games are suppose to be fun. Not serious. When are they gonna learn that SSB games are supposed to be compettive



1) Don't double post.
2) You obviously have not fought "real competitors" at tournaments, otherwise you'd understand how unbalanced Melee is.
3) Your second post is quite contradictory.  Please refrain from arguing.  You obviously can't win arguing against yourself even.

Yes, I do realize that comes off quite rude.  No, I don't really care, because you yourself came in with that attitude.


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## Luigipenguin (May 25, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> Luigipenguin said:
> 
> 
> > OBJECTION!!!!! Brawl is not balanced in my opinion. WTF is with brawl cheap characters. Take it with Ike,sonic etc when i was fighting them i had no chance to even put a dent into them. Melee had no really cheap characters, and melee does take SKILL. I did Extreme in brawl. Bamm. I survived just doing two continues. Melee i did very hard and i did like 3-5 continues. See how much skill it takes to just kill a annoying enemy?
> ...




Actually i have


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## Tsuteto (May 25, 2012)

Then you would understand the game is far less balanced in Melee if you truly have.  In Melee, you practically have to use characters that are mid-high (and mid is even pushing it at times) to actually compete.  In Brawl, you can use BOTTOM tier, and still place well.  Again, I use Zelda.  According to how tier rankings are, I shouldn't be able to place well, yet I consistently have.  I may struggle a bit more because of some disadvantages, but I still can take most people just fine who use, say, Snake, or Marth.

If you fight anyone in Melee with a bottom tier character, and they're using high tier, you're screwed.  End of story.  There's only a few people who have expertised with low tier and done well in tourneys, but that's also because no one knows how to fight said characters at times.

EDIT: Clarified a bit more.


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## Felipe_9595 (May 25, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> Then you would understand the game is far less balanced in Melee if you truly have.  In Melee, you practically have to use characters that are mid-high (and mid is even pushing it at times) to actually compete.  In Brawl, you can use BOTTOM tier, and still place well.  Again, I use Zelda.  According to how tier rankings are, I shouldn't be able to place well, yet I consistently have.  I may struggle a bit more because of some disadvantages, but I still can take most people just fine who use, say, Snake, or Marth.
> 
> If you fight anyone in Melee with a bottom tier character, and they're using high tier, you're screwed.  End of story.  There's only a few people who have expertised with low tier and done well in tourneys, but that's also because no one knows how to fight said characters at times.
> 
> EDIT: Clarified a bit more.



This has to be the most biased comment i have seen in this thread. Brawl??? Balanced??? Wat??? You dare to call a game where there is a Character without a single bad matchup balanced??? Dont make me laugh.

EDIT: no, i found a more biased comment




Guild McCommunist said:


> Minox_IX said:
> 
> 
> > Right, so indeed there may be people like that out there, but I do have to ask - did you just insult everyone who likes Melee more than Brawl just for that? Personally I can say that I prefer Melee to Brawl because I find it to be a more fun game, so does that make me retarded?
> ...



And that its a proof that you have no idea about what are you talking about.

But well, coming from the guy that believes Pokemon cannot be played competitively, its not unexpected.


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## triassic911 (May 25, 2012)

@[member='Luigipenguin']


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## Guild McCommunist (May 25, 2012)

Felipe_9595 said:


> And that its a proof that you have no idea about what are you talking about.
> 
> But well, coming from the guy that believes Pokemon cannot be played competitively, its not unexpected.



My point about Pokemon is that there's like 600 Pokemon and only a handful are remotely usable. That's absolutely horrible competition.

SSB isn't even considered a fighting game on the levels of Street Fighter, BlazBlue, Marvel vs. Capcom, etc because it just isn't as competitive. The game seems to come down to eliminating all aspects of the game that make it unique and memorizing exploits and glitches to be considered "good" at the game.


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## Urza (May 25, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> You obviously have not fought "real competitors" at tournaments, otherwise you'd understand how unbalanced Melee is.


APEX 2012 results

Brawl Top 8





Melee Top 8







> (especially now that Meta is banned)


The ruleset in question (Unity 2.1) was generally ignored by the tournament scene and in fact led to the disbanding of the committee which maintains said ruleset.

They tried to ban him and failed.


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## machomuu (May 25, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Minox_IX said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


That may be true, but to assume everyone who likes Brawl over Melee is an retro hipster isn't a good idea, especially after having played Project M (That's when you notice the real difference between the two).  Besides, if that were the case, wouldn't most people be saying that SSB is the best?  I just don't like the idea of being called a hipster because I like something older than the newest (or newer) installment(s) (Despite that I like both of these games equally, it was more of a generality).


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## triassic911 (May 25, 2012)

Urza said:


> Tsuteto said:
> 
> 
> > You obviously have not fought "real competitors" at tournaments, otherwise you'd understand how unbalanced Melee is.
> ...


Funny how Jigglypuff is a beast in Melee, but not so much in Brawl. Rest abuse FTW!


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## Tsuteto (May 25, 2012)

Felipe_9595 said:


> Tsuteto said:
> 
> 
> > Then you would understand the game is far less balanced in Melee if you truly have.  In Melee, you practically have to use characters that are mid-high (and mid is even pushing it at times) to actually compete.  In Brawl, you can use BOTTOM tier, and still place well.  Again, I use Zelda.  According to how tier rankings are, I shouldn't be able to place well, yet I consistently have.  I may struggle a bit more because of some disadvantages, but I still can take most people just fine who use, say, Snake, or Marth.
> ...


There's definitely bad match-ups.  Example: Zelda vs G&W.  Horribly in G&W's favor.  Same thing with ROB, IMO, but I haven't fought many ROBs, so that's possibly just me as well.  I don't know about other characters, because I don't play them, but there is bad match-ups.


Urza said:


> The ruleset in question (Unity 2.1) was generally ignored by the tournament scene and in fact led to the disbanding of the committee which maintains said ruleset.
> 
> They tried to ban him and failed.


That I have not known then, so I have made an error there, in which I apologize for.  I have not been active in the scene for the past few months.  However, the top 8 isn't very clear on overall statistics, just the top 8 people who won and what they used.  I know at least in my local tournaments that I've attended, when there's been Melee, the character selection span is less than what it is in Brawl.  Not saying the Apex Top 8 results are invalid, just not entirely conclusive.


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## Felipe_9595 (May 25, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> Felipe_9595 said:
> 
> 
> > Tsuteto said:
> ...



You have absolutely no idea about whata re you talking about. I played both games competitively.and Melee balance is infinitely better than brawl. In brawl, top tiers has 0 bad matchups with lower tiers. In melee, characters like Fox gets wrecked by low tiers like Luigi, Ice Climbers by low tiers like G&W etc. In melee Low tier character CAN be used competitively because they have good matchups against High/Top tiers. In brawl, anything below peach is trash and cannot be used in tournaments, except for 1 or 2 exceptions.


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## Tsuteto (May 25, 2012)

Again, I use Zelda, and I still do pretty good in tournaments with her in Brawl.  We have a Yoshi player who does well.  I know a friend who has a pretty mean Ike.  They're all below Peach.

I have competed in both games myself, and I still stand by that the balance is greater in Brawl than Melee.  If you want to continue going back and forth, I'm sure we certainly do so, but at this point, I think we can both agree that they only thing we're arguing is opinions.


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## Luigipenguin (May 25, 2012)

Felipe_9595 said:


> Tsuteto said:
> 
> 
> > Felipe_9595 said:
> ...


finally a melee fan! so hard to see them these days


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## Urza (May 25, 2012)

Tsuteto said:


> However, the top 8 isn't very clear on overall statistics, just the top 8 people who won and what they used.  I know at least in my local tournaments that I've attended, when there's been Melee, the character selection span is less than what it is in Brawl.  Not saying the Apex Top 8 results are invalid, just not entirely conclusive.


Note that for both these tournaments I provided a link to the top 32/48/50 placements (directly below).

Genesis 2 Results

Brawl Top 8





Melee Top 8





Obviously the main problem with Brawl balance is Metaknight, as not only does he comprise 50% of the field, but when a character is dominating to such a degree the entire meta is warped around him. You either have to play him or a character with a neutral to "favorable" matchup. This is why you see such a high number of Diddys/Snakes/Olimars to exploit MK's lack of a projectile game.


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## Tsuteto (May 25, 2012)

Urza said:


> Tsuteto said:
> 
> 
> > However, the top 8 isn't very clear on overall statistics, just the top 8 people who won and what they used.  I know at least in my local tournaments that I've attended, when there's been Melee, the character selection span is less than what it is in Brawl.  Not saying the Apex Top 8 results are invalid, just not entirely conclusive.
> ...



Duly noted.  I concede.


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## Luigipenguin (May 26, 2012)

Felipe_9595 said:


> Tsuteto said:
> 
> 
> > Felipe_9595 said:
> ...




No thats not true. The characters with high tiers can get their ass kicked by low tiers in brawl and in melee. Peach is not trash. its the user who uses the character. If your using the lowest tier character you still can kick their asses. It's just how you control them. And the best for that is melee. in my opinion.


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## Tsuteto (May 26, 2012)

Luigipenguin, the debate is well and done.  Let it die.


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## Felipe_9595 (May 26, 2012)

Luigipenguin said:


> Felipe_9595 said:
> 
> 
> > Tsuteto said:
> ...



Tier List assumes that the 2 players that are play have the same ability, invalid argument.


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## YayMii (May 31, 2012)

Just wondering, what are people's opinions on Brawl balancing patches?


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## triassic911 (May 31, 2012)

YayMii said:


> Just wondering, what are people's opinions on Brawl balancing patches?


It makes it more fun, that's for sure.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 14, 2012)

I love both games, honestly. I love Melee for its speed, balance, and competitive gameplay. But I love Brawl for its overall features besides that. I especially like how the characters in Brawl feel more "accessible" for casual play without having to master them, which makes it really fun for parties when I want to try out someone new, and whatnot. Also...


Spoiler


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## DoubleeDee (Jun 15, 2012)

*I find brawl more enjoyable, just my opinion.*​


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