# Mass Suicide Threats at Xbox 360 Plant



## Valwin (Jan 10, 2012)

> On Jan. 2, over 300 employees at a Foxconn plan in Wuhan, China threatened to throw themselves off a building in a mass suicide. Foxconn makes *Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony products*. *These workers manufacture Xbox 360*s.
> According to Chinese anti-government website _China Jasmine Revolution_ (via _Watch China Times_), the workers were protesting denied compensation they were promised.
> On Jan. 2, the workers asked for a raise. Foxconn told them they could either keep their jobs with no pay increase or quit and get compensation. Most decided to quit with compensation. However, the agreement was supposedly terminated, and the workers never received their payments.
> Website _Record China_ reported that the uproar the incident actually caused Xbox 360 production to be temporarily suspended.
> ...




Source


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## kohkindachi (Jan 10, 2012)

WTH...toying with life? :s


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## RupeeClock (Jan 10, 2012)

Foxconn also manufactures Apple products, but knowing Gawker Media they may have chosen to omit that detail.
Yeah. they hate their jobs, it's not humane apparently.


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## BORTZ (Jan 10, 2012)

That's...terrible.


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## boktor666 (Jan 10, 2012)

Sigh.. so sad that it all has to come to this kind of actions. :/ I feel bad for the employees, and I do hope they get what they rightfully deserve. You can't just go ahead and toy around with people, it's just terrible.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 10, 2012)

soooo cos their not getting the compensation they want ($) their going to kill themselves instead...yeah $ is really more important than life.

*GREAT STRETGEDY*!


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## 4-leaf-clover (Jan 10, 2012)

That's just terrible... So sad that things like this happen.


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## DinohScene (Jan 10, 2012)

Only thing that businesses care about is big fat profits.
The well being of employees isn't important anymore.

Why wait a month to get that new fat Mercedes or that 6th home somewhere in the Bahama's if you can get it this instant.
Only thing you have to do is make conditions worse for your employees and reward them with lower salaries.

In fact the whole world revolves around gaining more profit.

We can't do anything about it but to sit still and let it happen.


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## NES SNES V.B. N64 G.C. Wii WiiU (Jan 10, 2012)

Geez, Foxcon must be pretty bad?


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## Paarish (Jan 10, 2012)

DinohScene said:


> Only thing that businesses care about is big fat profits.
> The well being of employees isn't important anymore.
> 
> Why wait a month to get that new fat Mercedes or that 6th home somewhere in the Bahama's if you can get it this instant.
> ...


Yay capitalism(!)


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## DeadLocked (Jan 10, 2012)

Anti-suicide nets? Why not just pay for better conditions and pay the workers more.


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## Valwin (Jan 10, 2012)

DeadLocked said:


> Anti-suicide nets? Why not just pay for better conditions and pay the workers more.


because this is china


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## alidsl (Jan 10, 2012)

They weren't going to kill themselves, no-one would have been able to do it. The only reason they succeeded is because Foxconn didn't want to take the risk


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## Hop2089 (Jan 10, 2012)

Foxconn again, get your act together and pay your employees better.  No wonder the US wants to cut out China one way or another, look at their business practices, despiciable.

I want Foxconn's top management on trial or shot, better shot.  No excuse for the shoddy and shady business practices like this.


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## Gh0sti (Jan 10, 2012)

suicide is defiantly the answer, for those who have jobs maybe this can get your raise "if you dont give me a raise imma commit suicide off this building"

why cant they just protest without threatening their own lives the americans did it by angry protesting and destroying plants and sit ins


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## Celice (Jan 10, 2012)

Those who can't understand why the suicide over money have been spoiled by their life and how well taken care of they are.


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## Jamstruth (Jan 10, 2012)

Gh0sti said:


> suicide is defiantly the answer, for those who have jobs maybe this can get your raise "if you dont give me a raise imma commit suicide off this building"
> 
> why cant they just protest without threatening their own lives the americans did it by angry protesting and destroying plants and sit ins


Because the Chinese government won't listen to them. They try to stop anything of that kind. Mass suicide threats get more media attention from other countries than a strike would hence they make these threats in the hope that there will be a stronger reaction in their favour.


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## CyborGamer (Jan 10, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> soooo cos their not getting the compensation they want ($) their going to kill themselves instead...yeah $ is really more important than life.
> 
> *GREAT STRETGEDY*!



Starve to death... or instant death? What fantastic choices!

Unlike here in Aussie, those guys don't get any beer money when they are unemployed, ever.



Gh0sti said:


> suicide is defiantly the answer, for those who have jobs maybe this can get your raise "if you dont give me a raise imma commit suicide off this building"
> 
> why cant they just protest without threatening their own lives the americans did it by angry protesting and destroying plants and sit ins



Cuz 1) it's still a communist run country and 2) last angry protest on the road lead to tanks rofling over them. Well 2's kinda ancient history but you see my point.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 10, 2012)

The thing about china is most of them live in VERY poor conditions. Their workplace must be awful. Not to mention most of them will even have more problems living when they quit their job. Finding job in china without education is HARD and even with one it is still hard. Thus the compensation plays a big role. And when they knew they weren't getting it. What more is there to do? Most of them don't have anyone waiting for them at home. Most of them nearly get by the day. What is there to lose? Might as well end your life.

Well most people here would just be ignorant about my post anyways as they dont live in China and neither do they know the conditions for most of the people in china as they are shut in their house being ignorant of the world.


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## KingVamp (Jan 10, 2012)

If Foxconn is the one at fault, why did they even mention the other companies?

Anyway, that pretty sad...


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## Hop2089 (Jan 10, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> The thing about china is most of them live in VERY poor conditions. Their workplace must be awful. Not to mention most of them will even have more problems living when they quit their job. Finding job in china without education is HARD and even with one it is still hard. Thus the compensation plays a big role. And when they knew they weren't getting it. What more is there to do? Most of them don't have anyone waiting for them at home. Most of them nearly get by the day. What is there to lose? Might as well end your life.
> 
> Well most people here would just be ignorant about my post anyways as they dont live in China and neither do they know the conditions for most of the people in china as they are shut in their house being ignorant of the world.



All of that is an understatement, it's a lot worse than we see.  I'd rather live in a shack in Africa where I can at least pan out a small existance, hunt and gather for food on the Savanna or rain forest than live in all of the company dorms at Chinese worksites.  I wouldn't put a pig in those dorms.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 10, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> All of that is an understatement, it's a lot worse than we see.  I'd rather live in a shack in Africa where I can at least pan out a small existance, hunt and gather for food on the Savanna or rain forest than live in all of the company dorms at Chinese worksites.  I wouldn't put a pig in those dorms.


I clearly know how worse it is. Mentioning it will most likely make 60% of the Temp upset because their ego takes over. Heck they even kill their child & abandon them just to live the day. What do you think people here in Temp would say? Yes they will do their "comeback" with a that fucking parent needs some medication. Unlike africa where they lack food, china lacks money to buy the food.
Im actually half chinese, which is why i might be taking this a notch higher than everyone else here. My grandparents fled from their country for a reason. To find a better place. To give their kids a chance for a better future.


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## Hells Malice (Jan 10, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> soooo cos their not getting the compensation they want ($) their going to kill themselves instead...yeah $ is really more important than life.
> 
> *GREAT STRETGEDY*!



This isn't the same as a teenager quitting his job at 7/11 because he didn't feel like it anymore.
These people got treated like shit during their job, made basically nothing to begin with, and were probably overall financially struggling. I'm sure there's plenty more to it than that, but i'm too lazy to continue to elaborate on what is probably a pointless post directed at useless ignorance.


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## smile72 (Jan 10, 2012)

To some money is more important than their life, because their life is so shitty that without money it will never get any better. China isn't North America, Europe, Israel or Japan.


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## Themanhunt (Jan 10, 2012)

To be fair, nothing will happen. If this was in the UK this would stir up riots and things would change. The Chinese government, let alone the Foxconn bosses, don't give 2 shits about them. They riot? The police attack them with battons and the likes. Nothing they can do. China goes to shit so the likes of europe and the uS csn benefit. Sacrifice must be made.


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## benbop1992 (Jan 10, 2012)

Not the first time factorys recive suicide notes, ours have them every so often.


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## Valwin (Jan 10, 2012)

Themanhunt said:


> To be fair, nothing will happen. If this was in the UK this would stir up riots and things would change. The Chinese government, let alone the Foxconn bosses, don't give 2 shits about them. They riot? The police attack them with battons and the likes. Nothing they can do. China goes to shit so the likes of europe and the uS csn benefit. Sacrifice must be made.



none is forcing the Chinese government to do this  the do it them self and the sell the west their cheap goods what you want us to do ?


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## Deleted User (Jan 10, 2012)

Why is it when North Korea covers up stuff like this they are 'bastards' and 'horrible', yet when China does the same and covers it up, (so a revolution website posts the news), people pass it off as 'a slap on the wrist'?!
Foxconn's got to step up their bloody promises and stop covering their asses, or people are gonna get hurt.


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## Jakob95 (Jan 11, 2012)

Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.


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## KingVamp (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.


Yes, because having a good education always get you a good job.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.



>Situation occours in China.
>School available to everyone everywhere, country is totally not 20 years behind NA, EU etc, no tuition payments - all it takes is strong will, the school is totally not for the elite only.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 11, 2012)

The reason why we see North Korea so different as China is because North Korea feels like a threat. Just as simple as that.
@[member='Themanhunt'] : I have no idea what you wrote. But they are communist. They can cover it up easily. And trust me goverment wouldnt care if even the whole factory died. Tons of unemployed people there ready to switch in. You guys know how boring it is to daily chores once or two a week? Think that they are doing that each day for maybe 8 hours? Even more. And do mind that they are doing the EXACT same thing each day. They don't have the luxury of the word "variety" like us. Think of going to school, just that your doing math only. And the math doesnt change. Think of 8 hours with only answering 2+2=4. Do note that its because of them that your sitting on your computer.




Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.



This is kinda ignorant. You think they have school for everyone when their population is *1,330,141,295*? You think all of them have the money for education? You sir live in a world of luxuries. A 100% pure american. Not to mention even if they had. How many of them will get their job? Lets say 100 gets educated. Maybe 5 out of 100 gets the job they want. Its not about laziness. Its about their economy. Its not crumbling. Its just plain horrible.


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## Jakob95 (Jan 11, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> The reason why we see North Korea so different as China is because North Korea feels like a threat. Just as simple as that.
> @[member='Themanhunt'] : I have no idea what you wrote. But they are communist. They can cover it up easily. And trust me goverment wouldnt care if even the whole factory died. Tons of unemployed people there ready to switch in. You guys know how boring it is to daily chores once or two a week? Think that they are doing that each day for maybe 8 hours? Even more. And do mind that they are doing the EXACT same thing each day. They don't have the luxury of the word "variety" like us. Think of going to school, just that your doing math only. And the math doesnt change. Think of 8 hours with only answering 2+2=4. Do note that its because of them that your sitting on your computer.
> 
> 
> ...


Well I said that because since its a communist nation, I would have thought that all would have the ability to go to school.  I'm from the Soviet Union and everyone had the ability to go to school and was a requirement as well, school was free, universities were free(if accepted that is), even day care was free.  Nobody had more fortune then anyone else unless you were in the communist party or something.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> The reason why we see North Korea so different as China is because North Korea feels like a threat. Just as simple as that.


...and China is not a threat? If starting tomorrow the Chinese would decide that they will no longer supply the rest of the world with resources, cheap labour and produce it's likely that the entire economy of the "civilized" countries would implode. Every single electronic device has at least one component made in China - we depend on them, pretty much.



> @[member='Themanhunt'] : I have no idea what you wrote. But they are communist. They can cover it up easily. And trust me goverment wouldnt care if even the whole factory died. Tons of unemployed people there ready to switch in.


I'm not particularily sure if they would bother covering it up. They may be communist, but their economy is typical heartless capitalism. There is an abundance of workers with low education, thus the people who work by the transmission belt are as expendable as it gets.





> You guys know how boring it is to daily chores once or two a week? Think that they are doing that each day for maybe 8 hours? Even more.


 That actually isn't all that bad conscidering the average work day of a typical European. What's pissing those workers off is that they have to do overtime (admittedly paid) which they cannot disagree to and they work for little money BECAUSE there are millions of other uneducated workers that would do anything to actually *work*.





> And do mind that they are doing the EXACT same thing each day.


Lie. Safety regulations in transmission-belt-based factories clearly state that each few hours (not entirely sure how many, I think it's 3 or so) the worker changes his/her station. It's a matter of mental health and it is respected, even in Chinese factories.





> They don't have the luxury of the word "variety" like us. Think of going to school, just that your doing math only. And the math doesnt change. Think of 8 hours with only answering 2+2=4. Do note that its because of them that your sitting on your computer.


As I said, each station does "something else" and the workers switch stations - it's been proven that it enhances the quality of the end product and the mood of the workers.


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## chyyran (Jan 11, 2012)

My god, the work conditions in Foxconn must be appalling..


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## AceWarhead (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.


Yes, because EVERYONE in China can afford school.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Well I said that because since its a communist nation, I would have thought that all would have the ability to go to school.  I'm from the Soviet Union and everyone had the ability to go to school and was a requirement as well, school was free, universities were free(if accepted that is), even day care was free.  Nobody had more fortune then anyone else unless you were in the communist party or something.


Russia equals 1% of china's population. You see the difference? School is only free when you pay tax for the school. Not to mention the issue is that they dont have job for everyone either. Most people will gladly ditch their school just to get money to live the day.

@[member='Foxi4'] : Oh trust me they do. They still work way too much. So they put in a few screws for 3 hours. Change post. Their new post is to put the components for the other to put their screws in. So fun!
Let me rewrite it a little
2+2=4 for 3 hours
4+4=8 for 3 hours
and so it goes on.


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## Valwin (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.


comrade jacob you don't seem to get how communism works


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.
> ...


I thought I'll never do this, but I just liked your post.


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## BlueStar (Jan 11, 2012)

So in the fantasy world some of you inhabit, everyone in the country goes on to further education and gets qualifications which get them a job above the level of skilled labour. Now who makes your xbox?


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## Jakob95 (Jan 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Jakob95 said:
> ...



If it was true communism, then they weren't be in this state alone, with communism they are supposed distrubute  land for the people, food delivered to there house, and what not(thats how it was in the Soviet Union).  Why are there richer Chinese people in China then these people who are working in Foxconn.  Not a true communism economy.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Valwin said:
> ...










I think you're mistaking the Tesco Delivery Service mixed with the conquests of the XVth century with Soviet Union. As a Pole I should probably be offended now... but I'm not, I'm just thoroughly disappointed.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 11, 2012)

It's China. Do think the Gov't will give a shit if people kill themselves? Instead of killing yourselves, REVOLT!!!.

Anyway, China treats its people like shit and it has to change.


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## Hells Malice (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.



It's so bad when Americans make hilarious posts like this.
No offense to other Americans, but christ this is why people think the US is so ignorant.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> If it was true communism, then they weren't be in this state alone, with communism they are supposed distrubute  land for the people, food delivered to there house, and what not(thats how it was in the Soviet Union).  Why are there richer Chinese people in China then these people who are working in Foxconn.  Not a true communism economy.


Good luck giving house to 1 billion people and at the same time make sure that one billion people have work. What did the russian do to your brain lol. Food delivired to their house lol. I would so give you everything i own if i see Hu Jintao do a food delivery lol. And those "rich" chinese people you talk about amount maybe 0.01% of their population.

@Hyro-Sama : http://en.wikipedia....rotests_of_1989


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## Valwin (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Valwin said:
> ...



comrade jacob do you know how many people die of hunger in soviet russia ? and were force to work on farms  ect and let not forget the death camps


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## Jakob95 (Jan 11, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


That was in the 1930s-1950s and was purposely done to Ukraine for them to stop revolting against the government.  And the soviet union did supply people with food(not a lot) but they did. 

Btw the book Animal Farm is biased as shit.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

*checks age*

16 y.o

*draws conclusion*

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, you have never experienced "communism", hell, you're not even "living in a post-communist country" thus you have no idea what are the implications of centralized economy and a single-party political system. You're making yourself look stupid, Soviet Russia was the bumhole of the Earth and the only thing they could boast about was their military strenght - people lived in poverty and were forced into labour, enemies of the government were locked down in near-death-camp facilities across the Syberia, the secret police knew everything about your activities - from "the time you go to work and with whom" to "the time of the day you usually fart" and "life was tough", so please, just stop. It hurts to read your posts.


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## Valwin (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Jakob95 said:
> ...




never read that book 

comrade jacob also if the soviets were so ok why did the people of east germany jump walls and escape sodiers to get to west  germany side ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOHFPgoBs_o


there more videos there even one of a freaking russian sodier escaping the soviet dream


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## Redhorse (Jan 11, 2012)

my personal reality check,

I sometimes feel bad about my personal situation in life until I hear what many of you non US countries put up with. For those shouting revolt, or revolution, think about this, we on Gbatemp can't even agree on the best flash cart and you're talking about getting the majority of a country to agree to stop working in order to make conditions better.. that is much easier said than done.

Regarding the US citizens, do you know what the US imports to China? and what China imports to US, gooogle those questions it is VERY lopsided.

I have grown to feel that ANY civization; where money-gold - or some equivilent of power exchange is used, will always have an imbalance and unrest to some level or another.  All  civilizations will struggle between culture and power balance, because no two people ever value them alike.

As a US citizen AND a prior military  member I have had various concepts, Capitalism, Democracy, patriotism and so forth stuffed down my throat as a goal to be sought after. Now passing my 48th year on this blue marble, Ive come to realize these are little more than dreams to work toward but actually achieving them is far less likely.

All things remaining equal, the largets part of my life has been graced compared to our brother human beings in the East, Poverty here is largely a state of mind, we are spoiled and most of us don;t realize it because there is always more that we want.
I have always pined for a world where no one, man or beast wanted for anything, but I'm not so sure that is healthy either.
When it comes right down to it no one, not onen single human will take more to the great hereafter, if there even is one, than any other. In other words, the end for all of us is exactly the same. I have seen 10 years of extreme wealth, 10 years of extreme poverty (due to divorce &  health and the rest just bablenced somewhere in the middle. You can't take your DS with you or your PSP. You'll leave this world just as you entered, naked, broke and humble.

just my two cents.... and all I can afford.


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## Jakob95 (Jan 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> *checks age*
> 
> 16 y.o
> 
> ...


I may not have lived in the post-communist country, BUT my parents have.  And they all share experiences of there lives.  And honestly it wasn't so bad to live there and they liked it more then the USA in some ways such as it was a much easier life there.  Barelly any crime(such as murders) as everyone was to scared to do it, and health care was free.  I do agree with you with the enemies of the state, as my family has experience with that.  My great grandfather served in the military and fought in WW2 for USSR, and afer the war he became a director of a school, and was in the communist party.  And once he brought his son(who was only 2 or 3 at the time) and brought him to the school and left him right outside of it because he needed to go grab something quickly, and there was a huge billboard of Stalin on the schools wall, and his son needed to pee really badly so he peaded right next to the billboard who;e.   The authorties came and arrested my great grandfather and the kid and made him be an "enemy of the nation" because he so called taught his son to disrespect the communist leader.  He got kicked out of his job and the communist party, but other then that he was left alone as then they figured that the kid was only 3 so he could have done it by accident.


Edit:  Maybe they wanted to flee cause there family lived in West Germany, my whole family lived in the same place and didn't need to go anywere.


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## Midna (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Maybe if they weren't lazy when they went to school they could have gottin a good education thus having a good job.  Life sucks when you make it suck.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jan 11, 2012)

I wish GBA Temp had a condemn button so I could condemn this whole entire thread.


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## DarkStriker (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> I may not have lived in the post-communist country, BUT my parents have.  And they all share experiences of there lives.  And honestly it wasn't so bad to live there and they liked it more then the USA in some ways such as it was a much easier life there.  Barelly any crime(such as murders) as everyone was to scared to do it, and health care was free.  I do agree with you with the enemies of the state, as my family has experience with that.  My great grandfather served in the military and fought in WW2 for USSR, and afer the war he became a director of a school, and was in the communist party.  And once he brought his son(who was only 2 or 3 at the time) and brought him to the school and left him right outside of it because he needed to go grab something quickly, and there was a huge billboard of Stalin on the schools wall, and his son needed to pee really badly so he peaded right next to the billboard who;e.   The authorties came and arrested my great grandfather and the kid and made him be an "enemy of the nation" because he so called taught his son to disrespect the communist leader.  He got kicked out of his job and the communist party, but other then that he was left alone as then they figured that the kid was only 3 so he could have done it by accident.
> 
> 
> Edit:  Maybe they wanted to flee cause there family lived in West Germany, my whole family lived in the same place and didn't need to go anywere.


No matter how i look at this post, It looks like your family was wealthy and supported communism. No wonder they gave you that good impression of it. Finish your school.

EDIT: And why do you think ukraine revolted AGAINST them at all? Obviously not because their system is not bad at all! People revolt because they need a change. Not because they feel like it. Seriously you should just leave this thread. Your ignorance is far beyond what a normal person has.


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## Elrinth (Jan 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> *checks age*
> 
> 16 y.o
> 
> ...



You are thinking this is a thing of the past in Russia? Obviously things are better now. But people are still afraid to crumble out beneath their rocks.
I asked a guy from Russia just recently about his music and why he's not in a band. Here's his response (the exact words) which will need a bit of common sense to translate  :
"Now, i don't have a band, cause it requires more time ... i don't have that, btw, with present life in Russia (maybe you know about our politician situation...) it is not impossible.
We were surrounded by NATO, but our political power pretend that everything is normal .. and our parliamentary elections are not dishonest, people duped) .... I think revolution is coming... and maybe something like war... "

As for Foxconn: Fking start paying your employees what they deserve.


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## smile72 (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 if that's your real age, you didn't even live in the Soviet Union. As that fell in 1991.


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## VashTS (Jan 11, 2012)

its more like ex-employees threatening this not the current ones. my job had something similar like two years ago, instead of giving raises they just weren't terminating anyone. i think its fair if the economy slumps. you may not be winning, but you are not losing at the same time. these people who quit with compensation are fools.


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## BlueStar (Jan 11, 2012)

VashTS said:


> these people who quit with compensation are fools.



They quit and took the compansation because that seemed the best deal to them when the conditions changed.  Maybe they wanted to start their own business with that money, or use it to get training for a better job, or maybe they had a pressing financial need like a death or illness in the family.  Then the company backed out and didn't uphold their end of the deal.  How is that OK with you?


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> I may not have lived in the post-communist country, BUT my parents have.  And they all share experiences of there lives.  And honestly it wasn't so bad to live there and they liked it more then the USA in some ways such as it was a much easier life there.  Barelly any crime(such as murders) as everyone was to scared to do it, and health care was free.  I do agree with you with the enemies of the state, as my family has experience with that.  My great grandfather served in the military and fought in WW2 for USSR, and afer the war he became a director of a school, and was in the communist party.  And once he brought his son(who was only 2 or 3 at the time) and brought him to the school and left him right outside of it because he needed to go grab something quickly, and there was a huge billboard of Stalin on the schools wall, and his son needed to pee really badly so he peaded right next to the billboard who;e.   The authorties came and arrested my great grandfather and the kid and made him be an "enemy of the nation" because he so called taught his son to disrespect the communist leader.  He got kicked out of his job and the communist party, but other then that he was left alone as then they figured that the kid was only 3 so he could have done it by accident.
> 
> 
> Edit:  Maybe they wanted to flee cause there family lived in West Germany, my whole family lived in the same place and didn't need to go anywere.


If The Motherland was such a land of milk and honey where life is easy, people are pleasant and crime is not present, then explain to me WHY your parents/grandparents fled to the U.S.A in search of better perspectives, and upon reaching their destination they stayed? And, assuming that now they have a different perspective on things, why don't they just come back to Russia, which becomes less and less of a democracy day by day is the U.S is such a horrible country full of criminals and obstacles?

It is only natural that humans try to remember the good times and repress all that was negative in their past lives. I'll explain to you when the U.S.S.R started crafting the mindset your parents express - there indeed was full equality among everymen as far as goods are concerned because the goods available in stores were only matches and vinegar for the most part of the year. IF goods were delivered to stores, people had to stand in enormous queues because there simply wasn't enough food to feed the country, nor there was enough of... well, anything else, really, and people had to deal in dark corners to actually *get* something. There was no crime because people were more worried about their own well-being to attack fellow men, moreover, they had a more common enemy - the system. Of course there were also those who chose to climb the social ladder and became moles, ratting out their own neighbours if they so much as sneezed on the portrait of the fearless leader - you yourself portrayed that kind of a situation. I assure you, it was not without importance that your grandfather worked in the Education sector - any kind of intellectual activity was being thwarted because it was a present danger for the collosi on clay legs that was the U.S.S.R - the system was organized poorly and it was a matter of time before this great tower crashes into the Earth with a big bang, and you will not convince me nor anybody else that it was otherwise.

...If you still honestly believe that the Soviet Union was so jolly, get off your chair and just outwardly ask your family "why did we leave?".


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## Jakob95 (Jan 11, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > I may not have lived in the post-communist country, BUT my parents have.  And they all share experiences of there lives.  And honestly it wasn't so bad to live there and they liked it more then the USA in some ways such as it was a much easier life there.  Barelly any crime(such as murders) as everyone was to scared to do it, and health care was free.  I do agree with you with the enemies of the state, as my family has experience with that.  My great grandfather served in the military and fought in WW2 for USSR, and afer the war he became a director of a school, and was in the communist party.  And once he brought his son(who was only 2 or 3 at the time) and brought him to the school and left him right outside of it because he needed to go grab something quickly, and there was a huge billboard of Stalin on the schools wall, and his son needed to pee really badly so he peaded right next to the billboard who;e.   The authorties came and arrested my great grandfather and the kid and made him be an "enemy of the nation" because he so called taught his son to disrespect the communist leader.  He got kicked out of his job and the communist party, but other then that he was left alone as then they figured that the kid was only 3 so he could have done it by accident.
> ...



I got to say you are right here.  You have to admit though they did help out with some stuff such as education to everyone, and industriliezed the cities.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 11, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> I got to say you are right here.  You have to admit though they did help out with some stuff such as education to everyone, and industriliezed the cities.



...and invested all their money into heavy industry to accomodate the demand for heavy machinery and weapons when the technology was quickly becoming obselete as more advanced electronics kicked in, leaving a wonderful landscape of smelting works and coal mines all across the countries that were part of this compulsory union. An educated army of heavy industry workers and builders was created, immense ammounts of money were wasted to "create in-house" rather than "import cheaper", millions upon millions of people lost their jobs and hundreds of companies were close down the very moment the union fell and people realized that "wait... nobody really wants our steel...".

All that is left after the U.S.S.R that is of any use nowadays are the gas and the oil refineries and rigs. Everything else is just a rusty representation of how this kind of economy had no chance in the rapidly developing world - it was humongous, it was slow and it was costly. End of story.


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## Jakob95 (Jan 12, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > I got to say you are right here.  You have to admit though they did help out with some stuff such as education to everyone, and industriliezed the cities.
> ...


Without them you would have been speaking german.  Be happy we saved your asses in World War 2.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Jakob95 said:
> ...


...Is that a challenge? I've already shown on numerous occassions that as far as history of Poland between 1940 and 1989 is concerned, I can turn your argument upside-down.

Instead of doing that though, as I'm not really in the mood plus it's quite late, I'll just say "Belonging to Germany versus belonging to Russia? There's really not that much of a difference, it's just the time frame that's extended".


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## Sicklyboy (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Jakob95 said:
> ...



"We"?

You need to shut the fuck up.  You weren't in WWII.  It's not because of YOU, because YOU weren't there to "save" the Pole's asses.  Soviet soldiers were there, they were fighting and putting their lives in the line of duty, but not YOU.  You can't say "we", you weren't there, you had nothing to do with it, you did jack shit as far as WWII goes.


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## Jakob95 (Jan 12, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


When I say "we" I am implying the nation...


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## Valwin (Jan 12, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



i want to point something out  about Poland and the soviets the thing is before the soviets got to Warsaw  the local poles took the city them self to try to put stalin in a position to have to deal we a independent Poland  them the German sent soldiers to re take the capital  at the same time Stalin give the order for the soviet army not to help the poles  so that he could take Poland later for himself  after the german kill or the poles that took the city


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## Sicklyboy (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> -snip quotes-
> When I say "we" I am implying the nation...



You're not a part of the nation though.  You may be Russian, but you don't live in Russia nor were you ever a part of the USSR.  The same thing goes for people who are a fan of a football team and go "Aw yeah we won!"  No, you didn't win jack shit.  Your favorite team won.  You're not on the team.  People who think that they "hack" game consoles, when they're talking to other people "oh yeah we're working on this next super awesome hack for the 3DS", no you're not.  You're a script kiddie.  You're not a hacker, you know how to double click a few files and drag stuff to an SD card so you can softmod your Wii.  You're not a hacker, Team Twiizers is a group of hackers.

You're not soviet.  You may be Russian, but you didn't save anyone's ass in WWII.  Your ancestors did.

I'm not a slave owner.  I may be white, but I do not nor have I ever owned a slave.  My ancestors did.

That person is not a hacker.  They may have softmodded a system or two, but they do not nor have they ever developed or assisted in developing a hack or exploit for a system.  Someone else did.

See what I am getting at?  I usually wouldn't say anything, but I am because in my eyes that was a fairly personal attack against Foxi4, bringing his nationality into the issue where it had no place in it at all.  I don't even talk to him, but it's no place to be making those claims.


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## purplesludge (Jan 12, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > -snip quotes-
> ...


Patriotism is allowed to be part of someones beliefs even if you don't want it to be.


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## Sicklyboy (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't agree with claiming yourself to be a part of a group that you're not a part of.


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## purplesludge (Jan 12, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> I don't agree with claiming yourself to be a part of a group that you're not a part of.


I don't agree with religion but I have enough respect to not attack their beliefs.
Edit: Most groups thank their supporters for without them they would not exist.
Edit2: On topic It appears that management all over the world sucks.


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## Sicklyboy (Jan 12, 2012)

purplesludge said:


> plasma dragon007 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't agree with claiming yourself to be a part of a group that you're not a part of.
> ...



-We may be arguing semantics here now, but I am not (intentionally, at least) attacking his beliefs, but calling him out on claiming to be part of a group he isn't.  If he says he's a Christian, I have no way of proving he isn't, given the current information at hand.  I can claim I am a Catholic because I am one (albeit very loose following, but I digress).  Claiming I am a hacker though is exactly what I am calling him out for.  I'm not a hacker, I've never developed or assisted in developing a hack in my life thus far.  He's not a Soviet, as he is too young; he was born after the Soviet downfall, yet throwing around the term "we" like he is.

-There is a clear distinction between being a supporter and throwing around the term "we" like you're one of them.  I may donate to a homebrew or open source development team, but I won't say "yeah, we'll be adding a new feature in the next release" because *I am not a part of that team.*  I am a _supporter_, NOT a _member_.


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## Jakob95 (Jan 12, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> > -snip quotes-
> ...


My great grandfather fought in WW2...


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## Uncle FEFL (Jan 12, 2012)

purplesludge said:


> Patriotism is allowed to be part of someones beliefs even if you don't want it to be.


Why would you take pride in something that was not under your control?

For example, I could say that I'm so proud of the Universe. However, this is not logical thinking. I shouldn't have pride in something that wasn't in my control.

Why is there something to be said about the Second World War in so many of the news topics on this site? It doesn't belong in the discussion.


Are there solutions, realistic ones, to the issue at hand? I can think of none.


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## purplesludge (Jan 12, 2012)

Uncle FEFL said:


> purplesludge said:
> 
> 
> > Patriotism is allowed to be part of someones beliefs even if you don't want it to be.
> ...


Have you never been proud of something your family or friends have done?
People enjoy being part of a community and the feelings it brings.


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## M[u]ddy (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Without them you would have been speaking german.


This sentence always makes me laugh. Americans were almost speaking German voluntarily.


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## yuyuyup (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm glad I got a 360 before they all killed themselves, just kidding these are the horrors of a free market.  Or, we could make shit in the USA.  Or not.  Chinese/Tiwanese kids have tiny hands great for Vitas


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jan 12, 2012)

Alright this has gotten WAY off topic.
Try and find your way back.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jan 12, 2012)

Doesn't foxxcon make iPhone shit?


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## Uncle FEFL (Jan 12, 2012)

purplesludge said:


> Have you never been proud of something your family or friends have done?
> People enjoy being part of a community and the feelings it brings.



I'd be happy for them, but not proud of them. If it were my child, I'd tell them they should be proud of themselves...

But seriously, does anyone know viable solutions?


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## purplesludge (Jan 12, 2012)

Uncle FEFL said:


> purplesludge said:
> 
> 
> > Have you never been proud of something your family or friends have done?
> ...


Viable solutions for the suicide threats?
Give them what you promised, treat them as humans, make them feel like they are not expendable,etc


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## Celice (Jan 12, 2012)

But, that would put productivity and produce down the pipe. And we _can't have that purplesludge_. The pursuit of imaginary money supercedes our only moment in existence, and By God, what are we _without pointless junk as the greatest importance in life?_


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## Uncle FEFL (Jan 12, 2012)

purplesludge said:


> Viable solutions for the suicide threats?
> Give them what you promised, treat them as humans, make them feel like they are not expendable,etc



I agree, but I don't think these actions will be made anytime soon...


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## purplesludge (Jan 12, 2012)

Celice said:


> But, that would put productivity and produce down the pipe. And we _can't have that purplesludge_. The pursuit of imaginary money supercedes our only moment in existence, and By God, what are we _without pointless junk as the greatest importance in life?_


I would think that improved employee morale would benefit productivity and there would be less suicide threats but due to the huge population in China employees can be replaced very easily thus the suicide threats to get media attention. An example is near my campus there is a restaurant where the owner treats his employees awful, berates them, and fires them for the simplest mistake since he has a near unlimited supply of college students to use for workers.

I would like to believe that the companies that use Foxconn are not telling them to treat their employees this way and that it is just the higher ups trying to squeeze as much from the workers as possible only to reap the benefits themselves.


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## ferofax (Jan 12, 2012)

Valwin said:


> DeadLocked said:
> 
> 
> > Anti-suicide nets? Why not just pay for better conditions and pay the workers more.
> ...


a country which recycles sewage and labels it "cooking oil", makes a blatant copy of the Odaiba Gundam (which they claim to be original), pirates the Shinkansen bullet train and kills off its passengers, and collects the liquids collecting at the bottom of trash bins and passes them off as "soup".


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## ShadowSoldier (Jan 12, 2012)

I gotta deal with cows having pissing and shitting all over the place and kicking you and getting you covered in mud and shit, and I only make $20 a day. Cry me a river.

{this post was a joke}


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## DarkStriker (Jan 12, 2012)

Vulpes Abnocto said:


> Alright this has gotten WAY off topic.
> Try and find your way back.


NOES! That VULPES! I was just trying to shove down some ignorant people with facts


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## Foxi4 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakob95 said:


> Without them you would have been speaking german.  Be happy we saved your asses in World War 2.


Saved? Really?

Oh, when I read this I was at the point of boiling and I had to wait a considerable ammount of time before replying to avoid flaming your brains out, and that time has come.

What you're saying is complete, utter bullcr*p - it's a fallacy againts history and it's unacceptable by any standards. Germans were already retreating from Poland when the Red Army came after the failed attempt at conquering U.S.S.R. The Red Army did not "liberate" Poland and whoever taught you that is a complete moron - Poland was a country that just happened to be on the path to Germany which the Soviets planned to level with the ground. "Liberation" and "saving" implies that the Germans were pushed out of the country and Polish independence was restored - no such thing happened. They annexed Poland, then erased it from maps, leaving nothing but smoldering ruins, pillaging villages and cities and raping women. Your great grandfather was fighting in WWII? Good riddence, my grandmother was a little girl during it and she remembers the Red Menace rolling into her home town, raping women and cutting off their breasts so that they could no longer feed their children.

The Red Army was anything but professionals - they were randomly-picked people from all across the U.S.S.R. They knew nothing of honor or the art of war - they were simple people that were given guns. Simple people with simple minds who abused the fact that they were crossing through a country with no means of defence. Some of them were twisted f*cks that I mentioned earlier who took great pleasure in killing random people for no reason whatsoever, others were thieves who entered palaces and institutions and - listen to this, removed golden doorknobs and replaced them with copper or bronze ones.

There was nothing "glorious" about your so-called "saving" of Poland - the Germans were fleeing anyways. There were no substantial skirmshes, no resistance. The Red Army went through the defenseless Poland like a butterknife through butter. At first, the remnants of Polish army were supporting their actions and even helping them in driving the remaining Germans out of the country. Do you know how they were repaid for their service?

Officers ranking high and low, alongside with the Intelligence, that being professors etc. etc. were rounded up in forests and institutionally exterminated, then burried in mass graves in the thousands. Stalin knew that Poles are entirely capable of rebirth and revolution - the choice was made to erase Poland from existence, destroy everything that is Polish and bring in a new Communist order. The Western powers allowed this to happen despite the fact that innitially they wanted to help Poland regain independence... but you know what? Back then, nobody discussed with the U.S.S.R. If the U.S.S.R gave them a false promise that they will be peaceful as long as they get "something", "something" was given to them. The whole world trembled when they thought that one day the Red Cloud might be over their homes. People didn't respect your ancestors, they didn't thank them for driving the Germans away - they were fearful for their own lives each and every day. It was only thanks to our remaining diplomats that Poland re-emerged much, much later as the People's Republic of Poland, and even then we were directly under Moscow's paw.

Christians were being persecuted againts, also leading to certain... let's call them "violations" without mentioning the details. In the end, the nation was so petrified of their own neighbours, of the fact that someone might "rat" the family out that we ended up in a state of a quiet civil war between those who chose to enter the Party just for the safety of their families and those who fought againts the Party with all power that they could muster.

Of course this is a huge jump-cut - I'm not even mentioning half of it. My point is that what you were taught is pure propaganda - it's a lie the world agreed upon just so that they don't have to look at the uncomfortable truth.

Do you know *who* liberated Poland? *The Poles.* In 1989. We started off a chain reaction that caused "your" glorified empire to fall apart, and we've never been so proud of anything else in our history.

If your "idea" of "saving" is pillage, r*pe, murder, propaganda of lies and destruction of what you're actually saving then yes, your ancestors helped save Poland from the Germans. Thank f*ck for that.

Not that I'm hating on you or anybody else here - I just particularily dislike when people outwardly ask me to thank them for what was essentially an unimaginable crime.

Message to the Mods: I urge you not to remove this message. It's very much related to the actual happenings under Communist rule, and Jakub's case shows exactly how the commie propaganda works. He *actually* believes that what happened was beneficial in any way to the affected nations, that the great Communist Party gave the nations they conquered a reason to exist, protection and care wheras the truth is as far from those as possible - the territories under Communist domain are being exploited for resources and labour, no matter how pretty it may look when described in a Red pamphlet and the lies propagated by Communist governments are written in blood of thousands of innoscent people. Point.


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## omgpwn666 (Jan 12, 2012)

Time to mass hire people.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Jan 12, 2012)

@[member='Foxi4']
*sigh* I know how much time and thought you put into that, so I'm not immediately deleting it the way I probably should. 

I recognize the parallels you're trying to show between today's Chinese government, and the former U.S.S.R.
but it's detracting from conversation of the original topic and making the discussion into something completely different. 

So I politely ask that you, @[member='Jakob95'], and anybody else wishing to debate the matter to do so elsewhere.
I would prefer it to be in private messages just to keep the general peace around here.
But so long as it's not right here, I'll be relatively content.


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## sjones900 (Jan 13, 2012)

Microsoft's follow up on what happened.



> Microsoft is one of many companies that contracts with Foxconn to manufacture hardware. Upon learning of the labor protest in Wuhan, we immediately conducted an independent investigation of this issue.
> 
> After talking with workers and management, it is our understanding that the worker protest was related to staffing assignments and transfer policies, not working conditions. Due to regular production adjustments, Foxconn offered the workers the option of being transferred to alternative production lines or resigning and receiving all salary and bonuses due, according to length of service. After the protest, the majority of workers chose to return to work. A smaller portion of those employees elected to resign.
> 
> Microsoft takes working conditions in the factories that manufacture its products very seriously. We have a stringent Vendor Code of Conduct that spells out our expectations, and we monitor working conditions closely on an ongoing basis and address issues as they emerge. Microsoft is committed to the fair treatment and safety of workers employed by our vendors and to ensuring conformance with Microsoft policy.



Source


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## Midna (Jan 13, 2012)

I just realized that all this had been argument between a Pole and a Russian. It makes sense now.

Seriously, fuck everyone. History is bloody, and there's no group you can turn to that was perfectly good. Or even really good at all.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 13, 2012)

Midna said:


> I just realized that all this had been argument between a Pole and a Russian. It makes sense now.
> 
> Seriously, fuck everyone. History is bloody, and there's no group you can turn to that was perfectly good. Or even really good at all.


True, but why paint something in pretty colours when they're not pretty at all? I don't think that people should just all nod in agreement when what's being said is a very pretty lie just so that we don't have to think about the tougher parts of our history. Yeah, life's bitter, but we can either accept that, learn of past mistakes and attempt to correct them, or at least try not to repeat them or build an imaginary world where "nothing really happened and we move on" stepping into the same cr*p over and over again.

As VP said, this isn't the point of this thread though, so we should probably move to the On-topic now.

As for Microsoft's response is concerned, it's actually quite thorough. The workers did indeed strike not because of the working conditions but because of payments they did not recieve (yet). When you approach the situation from that angle, Microsoft indeed didn't have any reasons to change their deals with Foxconn in the slightest.


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## Midna (Jan 14, 2012)

Canada prided themselves on, out of all the other countries in the commonwealth, accepting the _least _Jewish refugees during WWII. We were racist as fuck. Our prime minister at the time bought all the land surrounding his property to ensure that no Jews tried to move there. Immigration minister was worse.

But anyway, this Foxconn stuff isn't exactly new. They've been in and out of the news for some time now. I don't know why the source article calls Foxconn Xbox 360 makers. They make everything.


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## gov78 (Jan 14, 2012)

sad that we live a world where people have to be willing to give up there own lives for better working conditions


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