# APPLE I HATE YOU



## Sinkhead (Sep 16, 2008)

So, my iPod was supposed to be delivered today.

Nope.

What _was_ delivered was a sheet of paper telling me that because I was out, they've ran off with my parcel and hidden it in some damp, dingy warehouse nearly 15 miles away from my house.

Now, to me it's quite obvious that during the day the recipitant is going to be out because they will either be at work in order to afford overpriced Apple gadgets, or go to school in order to get a good job in order to buy overpriced Apple gadgets.

I paid for *delivery*, not short-term storage. I want the parcel delivered to my house, not to some warehouse staffed by the same kind of people that work at Argos. (see Bill Bailey sketch entitled 'Argos')

Grrrr.

So now, because the collection depot closes stupidly early, I have to wait until Saturday morning to make the 40-minute car journey to attempt to retrieve my property.

Excuse me, but that's out of order. I paid £120 for an overpriced Apple gadget, I damn well expect it to be delivered. I don't care if TNT (said shitty delivery company) bid 2 pence cheaper than Royal Mail, because Royal Mail is the UK's delivery company.

What do all small villages have? They have a pub, and a small shop, which is sometimes included in the third essential shop, *the Post Office*. You know, so we can collect our things without having to waste half a day?

EVERYWHERE HAS ONE.

WHY NOT USE THEM?

GTFO AND LEARN TO POST, APPLE.

Bah.


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## Salamantis (Sep 16, 2008)

You're pissed off because you were away and they didn't leave it in the mailbox for security? >__>
Also are all British people that short tempered when it comes to small things? haha


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## Sstew (Sep 16, 2008)

Wait, you cant blame Apple for you not being home during time of arrival. That would be the postage company that was delivering the package. Blame them not Apple.


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## Sinkhead (Sep 16, 2008)

Yea, we don't have mailboxes in the UK.

But the main reason I'm pissed off is because they used some weird delivery company no-one has heard of instead of using the standard postal service that is far more accessible to pretty much everybody.

And because I was all excited about getting my present today, and now I have to wait another three days


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## Salamantis (Sep 16, 2008)

Sinkhead said:
			
		

> Yea, we don't have mailboxes in the UK.


AHAHAHA
How can you not?


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## kobykaan (Sep 16, 2008)

Sinkhead said:
			
		

> So, my iPod was supposed to be delivered today.
> 
> Nope.
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You do actually realise you can have it re delivered to your local post office by using the redelivery phone number on the card or use the royal mail website they charge something like 50p to have it redelivered to your post office thats closest to you ... that you pay when you get there to pick it up


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## Ferrariman (Sep 16, 2008)

You bought an iPod BEFORE waiting for the new ones?


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 16, 2008)

Sinkhead said:
			
		

> Yea, we don't have mailboxes in the UK.
> 
> But the main reason I'm pissed off is because they used some weird delivery company no-one has heard of instead of using the standard postal service that is far more accessible to pretty much everybody.



MS keep doing that to me when they sent me my coffin for my dead 360.  Instead of mailing it to my address, they utilized Purolator, which is almost one hour away from my house.  Purolator kept coming when I wasn't home so I also had to go there on my weekend off and stand around in a line for two hours to get the damn box.


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## Sstew (Sep 16, 2008)

Sinkhead said:
			
		

> Yea, we don't have mailboxes in the UK.
> 
> But the main reason I'm pissed off is because they used some weird delivery company no-one has heard of instead of using the standard postal service that is far more accessible to pretty much everybody.



... How do you not have mailboxes.. O_0

Im surprised the delivering company doesnt try again to deliver it tomorrow, Pretty much standard procedure here in the States if you use Fedex or UPS ( The main delivering companies other than normal mail)
They deliver it, If your not their they leave a notice saying they will return on the next business day to reattepmt delivery


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## Prime (Sep 16, 2008)

Salamantis said:
			
		

> Sinkhead said:
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That question has confused me.
It is simple - we don't have mailboxs.


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## Salamantis (Sep 16, 2008)

Ferrariman said:
			
		

> You bought an iPod BEFORE waiting for the new ones?


He bought a 4th gen (looks like a cheap zune knock-off/chinese MP4) iPod nano.


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## da_head (Sep 16, 2008)

Ferrariman said:
			
		

> You bought an iPod BEFORE waiting for the new ones?



when are the new ones coming out?


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## Sinkhead (Sep 16, 2008)

Yes, but I'm at school _tomorrow_ as well.

And we have letterboxes. They are slits in the door that you stick letters through.

kobykaan, I usually do that. Parcels are usually dropped off at our local Post Office, but the delivery company, TNT, won't do that, and their nearest depot is ages away  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's why I hate it when companies don't just use Royal Mail.

Ferrariman, it's a 4th gen nano, blue


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## NeSchn (Sep 16, 2008)

Slap them in the face when you come pick it up and bitch them out.


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## da_head (Sep 16, 2008)

Sinkhead said:
			
		

> Ferrariman, it's a 4th gen nano, blue



o ur talkin about the new nano........no comment.


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## Maktub (Sep 16, 2008)

Prime said:
			
		

> Salamantis said:
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Ehtnocentrism for the win.

It's not any common to find letterboxes as such in Europe. As Salad man tits said, it's usually just a slice cut through the door where you can slip small things into such as letters - not a pack anyways. For that, usually, you just get them delivered right away to your place or if you're absent, they take it away to the post office. If it's a private company, depending on their policy, they'll either phone you and ask what time you'll be there or, as it happened to the OP, get it into a warehouse of their property. That second thing never really happened to me cause when it did I just phoned them and told them to send it again when I'm home.ç

Also, @ OP: I wouldn't say "TNT" is a small unkown company, btw.


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## ZPE (Sep 16, 2008)

Do you have neighbours that can be trusted? When you're expected stuff just pin a note up on your door before you head out. I had a TV wall bracket but I wasn't home (well I was sleeping...) and it was given to my neighbour for me to collect. Luckily, that neighbour was kind enough to hold onto the parcel.


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## PizzaPasta (Sep 16, 2008)

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

That's what you need to do Sinkhead.


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## JPH (Sep 16, 2008)

lol, you got owned.

This has happened to me quite a few times, and yes it's frustrating.
However, at least you know there won't be a thieving douche bag who picks your package off your door step after the Post office vehicle leaves.

What iPod did you get and why does it take 40 minutes to travel 15 miles?


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## moozxy (Sep 16, 2008)

APPLE I NOW DECLARE MY HATRED TOWARDS YOU ALSO, HOW COULD YOU BE SO MEAN TO OUR SINKHEAD?

HOW???


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## ScuberSteve (Sep 17, 2008)

lol, UK fails.
Canadians get UPS.


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## ojsinnerz. (Sep 17, 2008)

PharaohsVizier said:
			
		

> Canadians use a variety of postal services.  It's always helpful to know approximately what time they will ship.  I know Canada Post comes by my house with letters and small parcels at approx 10:00, larger parcels at approximately 10:30, UPS, Purolator varies from 12:00 to 1:00, DHL from 2:00 to 4:00.  It is a horrible system seeing as all these times are when I'm at school, but thankfully I have people in the house all the time.
> 
> Not really Apple's fault.
> 
> BTW, what happened to your hatred against iPod sinkhead?  I thought you were a zune fan.  I'm actually going to get another iPod Classic over the next few days, only it has enough memory for me.  The nano looks kinda meh to me...



Noooo. Get the new Zune.

Also, yes, the new Nano is pretty meh to me as well.


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 17, 2008)

ScuberSteve said:
			
		

> lol, UK fails.
> Canadians get UPS.


lol, CA fails.
USA gest Fedex, UPS, and a bunch more.


That is a bummer, that happened to my rig peices. sux


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## notnarb (Sep 17, 2008)

[Insert comment about why   brand   is a better mp3 player purchase then an overpriced ipod nano]
Meizu (I would take that thumbstrip over a click wheel any day of the week)
Sandisk
...Microsoft?
And whatever other brand fills in the blank nicely


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## ojsinnerz. (Sep 17, 2008)

PharaohsVizier said:
			
		

> Not saying the Zune is bad or anything, but honestly I'm not playing to use these to the max or anything.  Basically Apple's iPod has it nailed down, I've used them enough so that the interface is very natural to me, not to mention everyone has one, and it is the norm to get an Apple product.  I am aware of Zune's superior features, but I'm not in need of it.



I don't see why just because everyone has one, you should get it as well. I mean, sure it's good to go with the flow, but sometimes you can just get better products at better prices.

Still, I understand that you'd be leaning toward the Classic more, since you're much more used to its interface. It's only natural that the person would prefer to keep it as it is. 

Well, just to let you know, the Zune is on sale right now for 199 at futureshop. If you ever change your mind, you should get it now, lol.


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## ojsinnerz. (Sep 17, 2008)

PharaohsVizier said:
			
		

> Don't worry, I've well considered the Zune, and I've definitely looked into it, and they are obviously doing something right if Apple's nano design is moving towards the Zune.
> 
> Something I like about the iPods is that I've been using them for a while, and they LAST long.  When I went to futureshop, their display models of the Zune felt sort of cheap (most likely because it is a display model), and the interface just didn't feel as smooth as the iPod.  Whereas I still have an iPod Mini from years back, working great, my friend still has the 3rd gen iPod I sold to him, working great.  And accessories are easier to buy for iPods, etc.  I've thought it over, I am highly tempted to get a Zune, probably in the near future just for the heck of it.
> 
> Also, I had a few Creative products, and I thought the Zen Vision was reaaalllyyyyy nice, and my first serious MP3 that I began using nonstop was the Creative Zen Micro, which was also quite nice.  *If they released a new MP3 player, following the Zen Vision, high capacity, etc, I'd probably buy it over the iPod any day.*



Its unfortunate that Creative is digging up their own grave. Their new players aren't so special, or even that great. The X-Fi (You can say it's an update to the Zen), has lots of wasted potential, and the Mosaic is just......... 

I kind of dislike Creative since the Zen felt like it was going to break easily. But it was a good player. Though I heard it had a lot of lock-up problems.....

Anyways, Enjoy your new player!


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## moozxy (Sep 17, 2008)

ScuberSteve said:
			
		

> lol, UK fails.
> Canadians get UPS.


I got UPS sent to me when I sent my iPod for repairs but that was like 3 years ago.


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## kobykaan (Sep 17, 2008)

tsimehC said:
			
		

> Do you have neighbours that can be trusted? When you're expected stuff just pin a note up on your door before you head out.



GOOD IDEA!!

where do you live ??

.....NOW I KNOW YOUR 100% OUTTA THE HOUSE from your note ....I can come and BURGLE YOU and take your TV that needs a wall bracket!

Bit of a  DUMB IDEA? 


did you not think of that??


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## Sinkhead (Sep 17, 2008)

Bah. I was angry when I wrote this, hence the slight non-sensical-ness of it all.

The reason I hate Apple is because they used some random shitty delivery company instead of using Royal Mail. There is a Post Office in pretty much every village. They're there, why not use them?


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## Maktub (Sep 17, 2008)

moozxy said:
			
		

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lol u all sux. We have sun, and paella, and hot women (of which many come from your countries) and UPS and TNT and SEUR and DHL and FedEx and Royal Postal Service Air Mail and wohooooo!!!!!

Ok, fake patriotism apart:
kobykaan, it's not such a bad idea to do that when you actually trust some of your neighbours. As he specified on his answer. Bit of a dumb answer to a good post? I've actually have that done several times when I was away with items worth over 250 euro. Not a problem, mate.


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## kobykaan (Sep 17, 2008)

Maktub said:
			
		

> kobykaan, it's not such a bad idea to do that when you actually trust some of your neighbours. As he specified on his answer. Bit of a dumb answer to a good post? I've actually have that done several times when I was away with items worth over 250 euro. Not a problem, mate.




Live in the UK .. if someone leaves a note that they are out..... please leave package at next door etc is an open invite to get burgled it shows that NO ONE IS HOME the house is EMPTY of OCCUPANTS!

and there's also nothing to stop someone intercepting the delivery driver and pretending to be the home owner knowing the proper homeowner is not in!

yes not everywhere is like this.... but the note idea is not really a sensible one for reasons mentioned above!

yes your neighbor can be trusted.... I meant the opportunist burglar will know what signs to look for for an empty house and the note is an obvious one!

@sinkhead courier should redeliver too if you ask them too they usually give 2 attempts before its return to where you ordered from


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## Sinkhead (Sep 17, 2008)

Yep, but the problem is that I have to go to school so I'm not in on _any_ day. I'm picking it up from the depot on Saturday morning though...


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## Hit (Sep 17, 2008)

Shouldn't you blame the Post service


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## dice (Sep 17, 2008)

can't you just phone them up and tell them to deliver it on saturday?


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## Musturd (Sep 18, 2008)

hmm....
Where to start my apple sucks rant?
Skip this Rant only IF you are a director of a motion picture that has a massive budget (Final Cut Pro). Otherwize you shouldn't any apple products.
I am 100% sure I will be flamed by this. But wth. Here's my two cents:

Apple Sucks. Basically.

1. All apple products are designed for people too stupid to use a PC, are you stupid? no, your reading right now. Reading requires a kindergarten to 2nd grade mind. Macs are for people with pre-school minds (even though I used Windows 3.1 when I was in preschool  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
2. All apple products have a time bomb in them. Don't believe me? Find one person who has a working iPod Mini (without having gotten it fixed). Yah, you probably can't. They usually break within a few months after your warranty ends. I have proof. I have evidence. 80% of the people with laptops at my school have apples mac books. All of my friends have had to repair their laptop at some time.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

On a side note, you may argue that some windows computers break. If it's the hardware that's the manufacturer's fault (THERE IS MORE THAN ONE TO CHOOSE FROM). If it's software that's your fault. And if it's software who really cares. Factory default restore! It is relatively easy to replace programs, and just save your important docs on another partition or upload them. "What about my iTunes music?" you cry.

3. iTunes. Sucks. They poor a sh*tload of encryption on their files, and for what? Try converting your music to mp3. It's practically impossible (there may be a way, but not that I know of). Wow, now try to put a blank cd in your drive. Then click burn. Now rip the song files as .mp3s. Ooh, nice super encryption. I guess that would be satisfactory if it transfered the ID3 tags. IT DOESNT. You have to retype in all the song info. Use a freaking different music manager. What about your iPod? How do I put music on that?
4. Let's rephrase that. How do I waste $200 (or more!) on a device that has incredibly low storage space. Buy a DS and a flash cart and get lmp-ng -- that should be enough! Then you can do other things on your DS like play games (FOR CHEAPER THAN THE IPOD)
5. How about Mac computers (when their time bomb hasn't been set off)? A one click mouse. That's convenient. Actually it's not. I don't want to have to hold control to right click. I should be able to click with my right finger. I like the lack speaker holes in the casing of their laptops too. Also, you may say "Look at my awesome virus protection!" Your computer isn't protected ANY better than a windows computer. It's just that virus programmers are too lazy to write viruses for Macs (though I would if it were legal  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Almost all hacks (not H4X, hacks -- little useful programs cooked up) on the internet are for windows/linux only. Coincidence? I think not. The people smart enough to make useful programs run windows/linux and not mac. There is a list of trillions of fun and interesting things you can do on a windows computer and only a few on macs. Listen to music. Go on the internet. Take stupid pictures of yourself. Somewhat program (not really though). That's all I can think of at the moment. Hmm 4. Want a small portion of the list of things for Windows? Music, Internet, Programming, reverse engineering -- (Hak5 watch episodes 402pt1 and 403pt2), process training -- CheatEngine, ROM hacking, etc.

Flame away mother f*****s!


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 18, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> hmm....
> Where to start my apple sucks rant?
> Skip this Rant only IF you are a director of a motion picture that has a massive budget (Final Cut Pro). Otherwize you shouldn't any apple products.
> I am 100% sure I will be flamed by this. But wth. Here's my two cents:
> ...



I respect you now!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




can't say i'm a mac fan. I've never used their products, never seen it do something a Windows based computer couldn't. the only reason I really truly hate them is my brother/roommate is such a hardcore fanboy. he calls me pc fanboy because I prefer Pc over mac... no, I'm a gamer, I game and photo munipulate in my free time, mac only does one of the 2... at the same quality (I don't find the mac as a better media machine then a windows computer...


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## Musturd (Sep 18, 2008)

juggernaut911 said:
			
		

> I respect you now!!
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I AGREE! I didn't mention the gaming aspect because I thought that this isn't really a PC gaming forum, but I agree.
The only thing macs have over Windows is Final Cut Pro, which, of course, is only slightly better than Sony Vegas, but I don't really do that kind of stuff.

EDIT: I'm going to go sign up on a ton of mac forums and link them to this  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



EDIT:EDIT: Actually, I have a feeling something bad will happen to me if I bring people here. Someone else should do it


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## IBNobody (Sep 18, 2008)

I would like Apple more if they didn't overcharge you on or lock you into hardware.

I would consider trying OSX on a custom built PC, assuming I wouldn't have to jump through all the current hoops like you do now.

Let's hope Phystar's anti-trust lawsuit against Apple succeeds.


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## Musturd (Sep 18, 2008)

IBNobody said:
			
		

> I would like Apple more if they didn't overcharge you on or lock you into hardware.
> 
> I would consider trying OSX on a custom built PC, assuming I wouldn't have to jump through all the current hoops like you do now.
> 
> Let's hope Phystar's anti-trust lawsuit against Apple succeeds.


Didn't know of the lawsuit. Now I'm happier, even though they don't have much of a chance.
Maybe if you dual booted it would be acceptable... actually it really wouldn't
Name one thing you want in OSX that is not available on windows (besides the childish ease of use (which you obviously don't need since your planning on building a computer))


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## Musturd (Sep 18, 2008)

Yah I'm double posting...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





			
				PharaohsVizier said:
			
		

> 1.  Mac computers don't suck, they just have a different take on things, simplicity is not a positive or a negative.  Honestly though, I use Windows, always will use Windows.
> 
> 2.  I have a working Mini, my brother bought it, a few weeks after it was first announced, still working strong today, battery life still almost as strong as new, albeit it did lower a bit, get around 7 hours for it.  Again, when things break, the first suspect I usually look at is people misusing it.
> 
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OK I agree, 4 is a stretch.
I just hate how my least favorite company in existence owns the mp3 player market. They force users to use iTunes. I guess it's counterintuitive to say that I don't like to work to convert files, but I don't like the simplicity of macs.
I wish people would just start getting other company's players like SanDisk and Zune.
I personally, don't listen to much music that's why I use my DS.
I can't believe you have a working from the time you bought it mini. I have never heard that someone has never broken their mini.

BTW, I use lmp-ng not moonshell...


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

Why did you buy an iPod over the Iphone? The iPhone is superior in every way.


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

PharaohsVizier said:
			
		

> Well if you want a video of me playing on my iPod Mini, I can make one to prove a point.  Although I agree that Apple's domination is annoying, but things like that happen...



holy crap you still have a MINI? that thing is over 100 years old.


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## Gore (Sep 18, 2008)

You know what screams "elegant" "cool" "stylish" and "efficient"?
Using your DS as an MP3 player.
I'd rather just not listen to anything than use the DS as a MP3 player.


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 18, 2008)

Gore said:
			
		

> You know what screams "elegant" "cool" "stylish" and "efficient"?
> Using your DS as an MP3 player.
> I'd rather just not listen to anything than use the DS as a MP3 player.


+1

Looking into getting an 120GB Zune. looks good. big screen and crapple dropped the 160GB classic


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## Linkiboy (Sep 18, 2008)

wtf guys macs are the best computers ever listen to drkupo; he knows his shit


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## littlestevie (Sep 18, 2008)

what is with all the apple bashing? the hardware is not that overpriced, in fact in some cases the hardware is almost identically priced, by almost i mean the mac is $10-50usd cheaper, OSX comes with things included that windows users have to pay for, in business they are most certainly the best option for servers (unlimited seat licencing vs microsofts per seat licencing) now they are most definantly more expencive in that market, bitching about warrenty, thats what apple care is for 3 years extended warrenty on all faults, now what happens if your pc hard disk breaks 12months down the line you buy a new one, with apple care its a free repair no matter what breaks and when within the applecare warrenty.

as for hacking tools, bushing for wii uses mac exclusivly infact when he released amoxiflash mac and linux was all it ran on, linux delayed its release slightly

now you might call me an apple fan boy, so i will give my setups to show i use both worlds. right now im on my asus laptop, in my room i have a macbook pro and an iMac, i have an iPhone, i also have a windows mobile device (palm treo 750) and to that i say the palm was nice, but the iphone blows it out of the water in responciveness and ease of use....

i hate itunes, but its constantly getting better, i dont pirate my music i purchase the cds and if i cant get the cd's i buy it on itunes music store (convenience is apples plan here and it is convenient) we have just got the movies store here in australia annd it is good, itunes DRM is a pain but i rip with free rip pro so itunes doesnt get its hands all over my mp3's. as for the IDv3 tags not being preserved i dont know about your experiences with itunes but mine have always been preserved when i burn to disk

/rant


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## IBNobody (Sep 18, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> Name one thing you want in OSX that is not available on windows (besides the childish ease of use (which you obviously don't need since your planning on building a computer))



There's nothing I particularly want in OSX. What I want is competition in the OS department. OSX being released for the general x86+BIOS would be a good thing, because they would swiftly take market share from Microsoft. Microsoft would have to improve Windows, and things would be better for everyone... (Except Apple. They'd lose out on all the $$$ they get from hawking overpriced hardware.)

Oh, and Littlestevie? Macs are overpriced, and the disparity increases for us build-our-own-PC types. You get considerably more bang-for-your-buck that way. I could build a $600-700 PC that knocks the socks off any $2000-3000 Macintosh.


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

IBNobody said:
			
		

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Alright, go ahead, build a 700 dollar pc that beats my Mac Pro. Hell, beat the base model.

If you manage to pull it off without stealing the parts I'll paypal you 50 bucks.

www.apple.com/macpro

Beat the base model.


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## sean0007 (Sep 18, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

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I can do it for less than $1300 and beat a mac pro (doesn't even need to be the base model). Also, stop with the pissing and moaning, get OSX86 if you really want a cheap mac (won't be able to update).


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

sean0007 said:
			
		

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he said 700 however. you can't beat 2 quad core processors that are more expensive than his entire budget.


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## sean0007 (Sep 18, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

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Ebay to the rescue. I've built 2 macs (not the pros...yet?) from cheap broken ones (a few parts from each and saved hundreds).


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 18, 2008)

Linkiboy said:
			
		

> wtf guys macs are the best computers ever listen to drkupo; he knows his shit


of course!

sry dr kupo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






PS:
Kupo, are you emeek77 from youtube? if you don't know him, he's basically worshiping Apple due to small wang


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

well if he manages to price out something that beats the mac pro i will send him 50 bux


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 18, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

> well if he manages to price out something that beats the mac pro i will send him 50 bux


can I have fifty bux for the football game this friday... and a ride? don't worry, it's a home game! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




OSX86 on teh gozorz?


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## littlestevie (Sep 18, 2008)

IBNobody said:
			
		

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I  am Talking about out of the box set up and go systems, remember it might be 600-700 but you have to put it together buy the os, and the software that comes with MacOSX and take time to do so, time is money.

go to dell, particularly there laptops... the prices are very similar,


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## littlestevie (Sep 18, 2008)

sean0007 said:
			
		

> get OSX86 if you really want a cheap mac (won't be able to update).



Actually if you build the right system you can, get your facts straight


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## IBNobody (Sep 18, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

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The base model only has one XEON processor, not two. I could do a two XEON build for $1300. 

(FYI: The $2799 model also includes sales tax. In Texas with the 8.25% tax, the cost is $3030. Buying parts online lets you avoid that tax.)

Note: This PC sucks, by the way. I would never buy it. I don't like servers. I'm a gamer. I would de-emphasize the CPU (Core 2 Quad is great), add extra RAM, and get a better video card. But I'm trying to compare Apples to... Apples for you.

1. Scavenge a case, power supply, drives, cables, etc. from your local used computer store. These things rarely go bad, and you throw money away buying them new. Veteran PC builders have these things sitting around the house. You can get everything you need for about $50-$100. I'll splurge at $100.

2. Video Card - This is just an off-the-cuff thing, but here's the same video card in that base unit (with 512MB of VRAM instead of Apple's 256)...
ATI Radeon 2600XT 512MB for $70

Incidentally, Apple charges you $130 extra to stick an extra 2600XT card in that Power Mac. Ouch! Can we say price gouging?

3. RAM - That Power Mac uses 2GB of DDR2 800 buffered ECC RAM. Right off the bat, you can strike out the ECC. ECC is a waste of money unless you're running some web server 24-7. You don't need error checking, and it also slows down RAM performance.

Here's a Crucial 2GB memory kit with decent CAS latency for $30.
 Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit

Incidentally, Apple charges you $500 for another 2GB of ECC RAM. LOL!

So now we have $500 to find a CPU/MOBO combo.

4. Processor - Here's the equivalent XEON X3360 for $340 (heatsink included):
Intel XEON X3360 2.84Ghz QuadCore

Now I don't agree with that choice. I would never buy a XEON. I would insted prefer to buy a Core 2 Quad or some such. I can get the CPU and the MOBO for $340, and I'd have more flexibility to bargain hunt.

Incidentally, Apple charges you $500 for that processor. 

5. Motherboard - We have $140 to buy a motherboard. $140 is tight for a mobo that supports XEON. Off the cuff, I would choose...
Asus P5BV-C, which supports the XEON 3300 series of Quads

This is $145.

6. Operating System - Windows XP - Free. FREE?!?!? Yes. Free. I'm not going to pay for another license of that OS when I have 3 XP disks laying around. If you want to be a stickler, though, you can charge $5. That's what I paid for my last legal and legitimate license of Windows XP Pro.

So there you go... It ended up being $710 just shooting from the cuff. I didn't take advantage of too many mail-in-rebates, and I didn't finesse the price of the CPU or motherboard at all. I know that if I really wanted to, I could easily shave off the extra $10 (or more).

We ended up with a PC that's equivalent to the Power Mac. It doesn't appear to knock the PM's socks off, does it? Well... The dirty little secret is that the much maligned XP runs 10-20% faster than OSX. Don't believe me? Load XP onto your PM using boot camp and bench it.

You may disagree with my choices, and I'm sure you're going to raise hell over #1. (OMG! He's using USED parts!?!?!). Because of that, you don't have to pay me the $50 you promised. I just wanted to show you that you are paying $2300 for something I could make for less. You are being ripped off. 

Wouldn't you like it if Apple stopped overcharging you for your hardware? Wouldn't you like to have the thriftiness of a PC and the glamor of OSX?

That's what Psystar was trying to do, in a way. They were undercutting Apple by building their own Macs without the painful markup and then loading OSX onto it. Apple slapped them with a lawsuit, because they knew that their loyal Mac customers would flock to a Mac Clone seller. Fortunately, Psystar is fighting back

If I were you, I'd jump on the "get-Apple-to-abandon-computer-sales-and-stick-to-making-OSX" bandwagon with me.

EDIT: If any of these parts are not compatible with each other, I apologize. It's an off-the-cuff analysis. If I were really buying this PC, I'd spend a month researching and bargain shopping for the perfect parts.


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

Wrong. The base model has two. Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Harpertown” processors. You lose! You also have to buy a case, cables, hd, etc to compete. You just built part of a PC.

In addition to that, you can't pirate the OS. You are trying to BEAT the Mac Pro here, and when I buy a Mac Pro I don't have to steal the OS.


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## Sinkhead (Sep 18, 2008)

PharaohsVizier said:
			
		

> Sinkhead said:
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I would expect that paying £120 for something would get me at least _semi_-decent postage. And there's no competition in the UK for small parcels and mail, Royal Mail is pretty much universal in the UK. It's not like in the USA where all the couriers compete. Mostly, special delivery companies (UPS, DHL and so on) are only used for large items or special orders.


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## Whizz (Sep 18, 2008)

Why didn't you just go to a store?


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## kobykaan (Sep 18, 2008)

Whizz said:
			
		

> Why didn't you just go to a store?




cheaper to order online LESS OVERHEADS!


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## IBNobody (Sep 18, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

> Wrong. The base model has two. Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Harpertown” processors. You lose! You also have to buy a case, cables, hd, etc to compete. You just built part of a PC.
> 
> In addition to that, you can't pirate the OS. You are trying to BEAT the Mac Pro here, and when I buy a Mac Pro I don't have to steal the OS.



Well, that reply was disappointing. I was hoping for something longer. I did all the footwork, and all I get is "you're wrong", without any intelligent discussion on your part?

In that case...

I'm content to being a loser with an extra $2320 in my pocket.


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## Smuff (Sep 18, 2008)

Prime said:
			
		

> Salamantis said:
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In this country, everything would be half-inched 5 seconds after being delivered, especially "OOP North" lol


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

IBNobody said:
			
		

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No, seriously, YOU ARE FACTUALLY INCORRECT. The base mac pro ships with 2 quad core processors. You are wrong! look at the mac pro site, understand that you are wrong, and admit defeat.


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## Renegade_R (Sep 18, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

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So tell me sir, where are the renders that you have done in Maya?  I'm dying to see what use that Mac has gone to.  The Mac Pro is used for streamlining 3D animation, video and multimedia applications.  The only reason you should own one is that it's making you money.  If its not making you money, its a very poor investment.

PS: I own an iMac in addition to a PC.  The PC is used for gaming, the iMac is used for graphical design.


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 18, 2008)

When did this become Mac vs. PC?


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## Renegade_R (Sep 18, 2008)

JKR Firefox said:
			
		

> When did this become Mac vs. PC?


Doesn't matter...I think this kind of argument is enjoyable actually.  Why I find it enjoyable is that people always say one is better than the other...the problem is that no one realizes each of them have their own different primary usages.


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## JKR Firefox (Sep 18, 2008)

Renegade_R said:
			
		

> JKR Firefox said:
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That would be the definition of fanboyism.


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## DrKupo (Sep 18, 2008)

Renegade_R said:
			
		

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I use Final Cut professionally. I do not use Maya. My home mac pro is used for all sorts of fun stuff, and I see no need to justify my purchase to the children on Gbatemp.


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## Renegade_R (Sep 18, 2008)

Well GBATemp does consist mostly of the younger gamers... (makes me wonder why I hang around here so much myself).  Using Final Cut professionally completely justifies the purchase of a Mac Pro as it does tend to struggle a bit on standard iMacs.

To those who don't know, Final Cut Pro is a simply excellent piece of Mac software and it on itself justifies the purchase of a Mac.  It really streamlines video processing but it relies more on processor power than video card power.  But we're gamers here, not video pros.  The necessities are different.

There you have it people.  The Mac Pro is making the man money.  Argument ends.


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## Musturd (Sep 18, 2008)

Other than getting a mac for small kids, or for Final Cut Pro, why would anyone smart get it?
If you don't want windows, than get linux  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I just want a good reason.
Ease of use, to me anyway, does not justify as a good reason, so don't pull that one.


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## Salamantis (Sep 18, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> Other than getting a mac for small kids, or for Final Cut Pro, why would anyone smart get it?
> If you don't want windows, than get linux
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.apple.com/getamac/whymac/

Other reasons too, won't name cause I won't start a flame war.


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## Musturd (Sep 18, 2008)

Too late -- this thread is already in flames.
I'm too bored to argue anymore. But, on request, I will.


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## ScuberSteve (Sep 18, 2008)

@Mustard
I want to stab so many people on the internet in the face.
But you're special.
I think you should be dismembered, have salt poured over your body, and allow you to heal, leaving you living as a torso, with no legs or arms.


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## Linkiboy (Sep 18, 2008)

Salamantis said:
			
		

> Musturd said:
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So advanced... that it can fool average consumers into doings things a PC could do ages ago. And can run a lot of games. Definitely.


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## Salamantis (Sep 18, 2008)

Linkiboy said:
			
		

> Salamantis said:
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ugh... why can't people just realize that Macs are good for some people, and PCs for others? If you game on your computer, which I don't, then don't buy one. It's stupidly simple.


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## Linkiboy (Sep 18, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> 2. All apple products have a time bomb in them. Don't believe me? Find one person who has a working iPod Mini (without having gotten it fixed). Yah, you probably can't. They usually break within a few months after your warranty ends. I have proof. I have evidence. 80% of the people with laptops at my school have apples mac books. All of my friends have had to repair their laptop at some time.
> 
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YOU DECIDE!

Now the only apple product I have is the touch... it was definitely worth 200$. But I still rage at fanboys.


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## Linkiboy (Sep 18, 2008)

Salamantis said:
			
		

> ugh... why can't people just realize that Macs are good for some people, and PCs for others? If you game on your computer, which I don't, then don't buy one. It's stupidly simple.


Why can't people determine the content of my post, but instead instinctively assume that its Mac bashing, whereas I'm making fun of the website?


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## phoood (Sep 18, 2008)

anti-apple diehards boggle my mind more than anything in the world.
maybe it's because they're really poor.

really really poor.


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## ScuberSteve (Sep 18, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> Also, you may say "Look at my awesome virus protection!" Your computer isn't protected ANY better than a windows computer. It's just that virus programmers are too lazy to write viruses for Macs (though I would if it were legal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, aren't you contradicting yourself?  If it's so difficult to write these viruses, quite obviously OS X (which is based on UNIX) has some kind of awesome security.

Also, unix is what makes most of these websites stand around.  If it wasn't for unix, we wouldn't have linux.
GBAtemp runs on some linux.
Are you bashing linux?
ARE YOU?


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## Psyfira (Sep 19, 2008)

Sorry Sinkhead, but stop being an idiot (I mean that in the nicest possible way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). Almost every company sending expensive items use couriers. From a retailer's point of view couriers have far better tracking information than Royal Mail's "send it and pray" approach to delivery (their tracking info can only tell you who signed if the item has been delivered or not, you can't track it through their depots at all and if it goes walkies you have to wait a ridiculous 20 days before they'll acknowledge it's a lost package.) So most companies sending expensive items use couriers for the extra security, and so their customers don't have to wait a whole month if the package gets lost.

This is why most people get items delivered to their work address, where possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Normally the retailer's delivery information would indicate that they're using couriers rather than RM. I agree that most couriers hours are a bit daft though, it would make far more sense for courier companies to keep operating between 5pm and 8pm. and most will attempt delivery 2 or 3 times before returning to sender, so you just have to phone them up and arrange a day to stay in (or stay in tomorrow if that's what the card said).

dice: Some couriers only work a half day or have fewer drivers on Saturdays, so they might charge extra for a saturday delivery. Don't know about TNT though, worth a try.


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

Salamantis said:
			
		

> Musturd said:
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Summary of that page:

It's shiny, it's generic
It uses C2D (like everything else)
Updates (like everything else)
Camera so you can spam youtube
Wireless... k
Safe for retarded kids and blind grannies
It's simple becuz of bar at bottom!
All the software you need to make you feel hip (and then some! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
It's fun to shell out $3000 for this!!
Our employees look retarded and try to look cool but aren't!
Our genius (a wannabe college drop out clickng in a file moving utility) moves ur porn to your new computer!
We'll help you learn... but were simple... but you still need to learn--the simplicity of the easiness...


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## IBNobody (Sep 19, 2008)

DrKupo said:
			
		

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If I am factually incorrect, why does Apple let you order a Power Mac with only one Xeon? Is that not a base system? If not, what would you call it? Wouldn't the second Xeon be extra? I'd call that price gouging. Wouldn't you be better off buying the second Xeon on your own, either immediately, or a few months down the road?

For that matter, wouldn't you be better off just buying the parts separately, buying the OS and other software, and building the system yourself?

EDIT: On second thought... Don't answer that. I don't seem to care anymore.


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

hehe look what I found:


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## Salamantis (Sep 19, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> hehe look what I found:


That's a very big exaggeration, and while I agree that App Store apps get rejected often, it's for the good, since if people make random apps for no reason the quality goes downhill.


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## IBNobody (Sep 19, 2008)

phoood said:
			
		

> anti-apple diehards boggle my mind more than anything in the world.
> maybe it's because they're really poor.
> 
> really really poor.



Here's a good explanation...

Fight club, after Edward Norton beats the crap out of Angel...
Tyler Durden: Where'd you go psycho boy?
Narrator: I felt like destroying something beautiful.


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

Salamantis said:
			
		

> Musturd said:
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lol. that chart rocks!!!!!!!


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

phoood said:
			
		

> anti-apple diehards boggle my mind more than anything in the world.
> maybe it's because they're really poor.
> 
> really really poor.


Maybe people would rather spend their money on more important things...


Like having sushi every other day


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## DrKupo (Sep 19, 2008)

IBNobody said:
			
		

> DrKupo said:
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The base specification is the one listed on the page, not the absolute lowest you can go. Also, you still lose. You didn't include a hard drive, let alone a case.

Also, they are called Mac Pros.


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

True:





AND, not me but true:



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> When you run iDVD application the first error message you get is ‘Your Macintosh does not have a supported SuperDrive. Please note that while you will be able to work with the iDVD application you cannot Burn a DVD disc’ Guess what when you buy a Macbook you would expect the preinstalled softwares to be compatible with the available hardware and if you dont have a specific hardware why would you expect a software which cannot be used?


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## littlestevie (Sep 19, 2008)

one thing that always gets on my nerves (before i say it i do love mac osx) Windows has its fucking roots in mac os, when microsoft made office for mac they had full access to the OS source code and a dodgy agreement meaning microsoft could have released it as the next version of windows without any modifications what-so ever, its no coincidence that elements from spotlight and finder are more aparent in Vista then any other os apart from mac itself, indexed searching (vista new feature) guess what i have had that on  my mac for years.... who Really is the OS that tries to show new things that the other has been doing for years, in the case of vista vs. mac osx its mac os thats been doing it for much longer then vista.

Nuff said


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

littlestevie said:
			
		

> one thing that always gets on my nerves (before i say it i do love mac osx) Windows has its fucking roots in mac os, when microsoft made office for mac they had full access to the OS source code and a dodgy agreement meaning microsoft could have released it as the next version of windows without any modifications what-so ever, its no coincidence that elements from spotlight and finder are more aparent in Vista then any other os apart from mac itself, indexed searching (vista new feature) guess what i have had that on  my mac for years.... who Really is the OS that tries to show new things that the other has been doing for years, in the case of vista vs. mac osx its mac os thats been doing it for much longer then vista.
> 
> Nuff said


That's funny that you mention that spotlight point. You know "time machine" or whatever apple calls it, has been on Windows since ME in 2000. Guess how long it took apple to implement -- longer (too lazy to actually calculate). I'm a fan of the cached search, but really it's not a big a deal as system restore. At least in my opinion.


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## littlestevie (Sep 19, 2008)

Musturd said:
			
		

> littlestevie said:
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having said that to make a complete disk image of your install directory requires 3rd party software on a pc, where its built into diskutil the HDD manager.

i will take that fair call with "time machine" but didnt ME only do local copies? this has the option to backup over the internet to remote storage

EDIT: this isnt ment to sound like a flame, i use BOTH windows and mac for different tasks i dont prefer mac over windows but i dont prefer windows over mac either, they are equal for 2 different hardwares and different purpose, for instance my company devs iphone apps - need OSX this is a financial requirement otherwise we dont make money on that market, other things tho, like audio editing, garage band does a better job then cubase SX, its things like that each os has its strengths and weaknesses


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

OK
You have a justified reason for running a Mac OS, congrats.

Most people don't.
I no longer need to flame war you.


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## Gore (Sep 19, 2008)

Musturd, you're an idiot.
Sorry.


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

Gore said:
			
		

> Musturd, you're an idiot.
> Sorry.


...
...
I need reasons


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## Gore (Sep 19, 2008)

With all the "justifying" using Mac OSX, and putting your (dumb) rant in your sig as if it meant anything.
More reasons could be found if I cared more.


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## Musturd (Sep 19, 2008)

Gore said:
			
		

> With all the "justifying" using Mac OSX, and putting your (dumb) rant in your sig as if it meant anything.
> More reasons could be found if I cared more.



My sig was too empty, but other than that; Touche


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## hdofu (Sep 19, 2008)

I've had that happen before too, at radioshack they were supposed to call me, however they ended up calling a wrong number so I never got the message my ipod was in


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)

Gore said:
			
		

> Musturd, you're an idiot.
> Sorry.


Second.


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## JPH (Sep 19, 2008)

How about less insults? Thanks.

Why are you all getting so anal over stinkin' computers, anyway?
That, I will never know...

Anyway, more discussion without flames and rudeness please.


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> Why are you all getting so anal over stinkin' computers, anyway?


You shouldn't interfere with forces you don't understand.


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## JPH (Sep 19, 2008)

Urza said:
			
		

> JPH said:
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Seriously, they're just computers. Yes, they are really important and useful...

But they're computers. Why get insulted and hyped up over them? Silly.


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## littlestevie (Sep 19, 2008)

how about we all fight for something thats more important... the fucking loudness war in music seriously what good is an ipod or what ever mp3 player you choose when the thing is pushed so loud that it digitally distorts


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> Urza said:
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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

Urza said:
			
		

> JPH said:
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Yeah. Computers are much too much for JPH to handle.

PS: theres a guy at my school named JP, i call him Susan... are you Susan?

HAI SOOZIN!!


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)

juggernaut911 said:
			
		

> Urza said:
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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

Urza said:
			
		

> juggernaut911 said:
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urza made a funny!


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## JPH (Sep 19, 2008)

@ Urza and Juggy


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> @ Urza and Juggy


you wanna hump meh?!














































PS: you dont have facial or pubic hair yet


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> @ Urza and Juggy


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## JPH (Sep 19, 2008)




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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

>


not fair... he wins Urza... just too much fail. I don't know how he takes it...


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)




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## Orc (Sep 19, 2008)

REFRESHING THE PAGE AND UPLOADING PICTURES


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

Urza said:
			
		

>


thats Urza, I needed that. nice counter!! IN YOUR FACE, HORE!!!!!

time to die, Susan


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## The Worst (Sep 19, 2008)

1) almost everything you can do on the iphone i could do on a ppc years ago
2) it is extremely annoying having to explain to people that you can get an mp3 player that isn't an ipod, and that apple is just one of many different brands of mp3/media players



hahaha you guys don't have mailboxes, suckers!  oh wait i don't have any health care


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## Urza (Sep 19, 2008)

Orc said:
			
		

> REFRESHING THE PAGE AND UPLOADING PICTURES


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## JPH (Sep 19, 2008)




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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

>








take that Soozy

This thread:


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## JPH (Sep 19, 2008)

This thread is tasty B:


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## juggernaut911 (Sep 19, 2008)

D:


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## Renegade_R (Sep 19, 2008)

Well this blog post certainly took a 90 degree turn.


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## The Worst (Sep 19, 2008)

*THIS IS RACIST*


			
				JPH said:
			
		

> This thread is tasty B:


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## kikuchiyo (Sep 19, 2008)

Salamantis said:
			
		

> Sinkhead said:
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I can't speak for the British, but in Japan we have door slips for letters/CDs/books/games.
Anything bigger than that usually has to be signed for.  I've been getting a lot of crap in the mail the last few weeks; used books and games from Amazon, and I just bought an new iPod classic.  

And good lord, it's a wait of a few days.


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