# The Theories of the 2020 Election Conspiracy



## tthousand (Feb 10, 2021)

For those who wish to have conversation... (if you do not want to listen, then do not expect to be heard)

*The Theories of the 2020 Election Conspiracy*

*


 *​
Disclaimer: As with all theories, both sides of truth and lie can be argued. I make no claims that the below is 100% truth, but I recommend you seek the truth for yourself, as that is the only way to true understanding.

Where to begin... there are a lot of deep state theories of conspiracy in the US, and for that matter, around the world as well. History is often written by the victor, and many times in history facts have been hidden to coincide with the given narrative. Instead of listing previous theories that are still very relevant to this day, let's jump right into the 2020 election.

Firstly, there are many claims that there was some form of voter fraud, whether they be minor or widespread. Some have already been arrested for fraud this election, and at the same time there are both current cases and future cases that will help decide what really happened last year. With so many signed affidavits, it is at least worth questioning the validity of this election. If you look at the recent past, you see Democrats have constantly contested the election every single time their party was not elected President.

Why not look deeply into the election and lay to rest the claims of fraud? Why does media claim Trump "lost" all these court cases, when the truth of the matter is the court cases can neither be considered won or lost? I have heard that most of the cases that were actually heard were won. It is not hard to imagine why coverage is sparse, given the relationship with the left and the main stream media.

Let's talk about the Dominion voting machines. It is widely contested that these systems are not only easily hack-able, but also were not up to the government standards for use in the first place. The is a signed affidavit from an official in Italy that not only admits to using the Dominion system to hack the election, but in his confession he explains how it was done as well.

Is it really a coincidence there were two major power outages in Pakistan and Italy back to back, when those two countries were the main suspects in the vote fraud?

How long is the national guard going to stay in DC? Why is there no official answer to that question?

Why was there not more support for the Capitol police during the break-in on January 6th, when officials were told to expect an attack? Why, when more support was offered, was it denied?

Well, that is a start for now. I am sure there are some things I forgot to mention.


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## djpannda (Feb 10, 2021)

tthousand said:


> For those who wish to have conversation... (if you do not want to listen, then do not expect to be heard)
> 
> *The Theories of the 2020 Election Conspiracy*
> 
> ...



oh we moved here? TThousand would you like to explain to people why you created ( a non-burner) new account This week to spew garbage or that your uncle works as a MOD for Nintendo forums.. or why you like saltine Crackers..


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## tthousand (Feb 10, 2021)

The other thread seemed a little off topic. Biden was not even being talked about, so I figured I would do the right thing and steer your guys in the right direction.

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Let's keep it on topic here there... save your trolling for your own threads.


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## djpannda (Feb 10, 2021)

people tend not to like (non Burner) new accounts spewing Far Right Conspiracy Theories  and then have a Hissy fit when proven wrong or question with real Proof.. This is not 8chan and Thedonald. ..GBA TEMPer tend to be decent people ( at least most) ...


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## Lostbhoy (Feb 10, 2021)

The world is secretly ran by lizard people and we're all slaves to mind control. Did you not know?? 

These people who come onto video game forums rather than proper political forums to 'wake' us all up really are all well adjusted and well connected individuals who are better than us. 

I salute you OP for you and your crazy insane brethren make me lol.

Go on son.... Get us all told!


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## tthousand (Feb 10, 2021)

djpannda said:


> people tend not to like (non Burner) new accounts spewing Far Right Conspiracy Theories  and then have a Hissy fit when proven wrong or question with real Proof.. This is not 8chan and Thedonald. ..GBA TEMPer tend to be decent people ( at least most) ...



There is some input.


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## djpannda (Feb 10, 2021)

Lostbhoy said:


> The world is secretly ran by lizard people and we're all slaves to mind control. Did you not know??
> 
> These people who come onto video game forums rather than proper political forums to 'wake' us all up really are all well adjusted and well connected individuals who are better than us.
> 
> ...


 HEY I Have been Trying to tell people bout the Lizard people for Weeks.. but they think im Trolling


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## tthousand (Feb 10, 2021)

I thought we wiped them out along with the bird people, neanderthals, and whoever else wasn't a homo sapien? But perhaps they are just on another plane... or on the inner Earth side???


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## Xzi (Feb 10, 2021)

Cute theories, here are some facts: Trump told his supporters to vote twice, some did.  Trump used DeJoy to sabotage the USPS, thousands of ballots arrived after the deadline in most states, disenfranchising voters.  Despite all this, Biden still had millions more votes cast for him than Trump.

Here's the cold hard truth: Trump was never that popular to begin with.  He would've lost to Bernie Sanders or basically anybody else in 2016.  All Dems had to do in 2020 was not shoot themselves in the foot with their choice of candidate, and let the Trump administration self-destruct.  The handling of coronavirus was bad enough on its own, but the insults to the military and veterans were probably the final nail in his coffin.


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## tthousand (Feb 10, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Cute theories, here are some facts: Trump told his supporters to vote twice, some did.  Trump used DeJoy to sabotage the USPS, thousands of ballots arrived after the deadline in most states, disenfranchising voters.  Despite all this, Biden still had millions more votes cast for him than Trump.
> 
> Here's the cold hard truth: Trump was never that popular to begin with.  He would've lost to Bernie Sanders or basically anybody else in 2016.  All Dems had to do in 2020 was not shoot themselves in the foot with their choice of candidate, and let the Trump administration self-destruct.  The handling of coronavirus was bad enough on its own, but the insults to the military and veterans were probably the final nail in his coffin.



I heard about the insults, but never actually saw any proof of it, except for hearsay. From what I have seen and heard, the military loves him... unlike the current.

I really never cared for Trump, but I sure was glad we didn't get Hillary.

Too bad all the Kennedys are killed off (or know they have targets on their backs). I could really go for another one.

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P.S. I feel like Trump is a lot more liked over the Bushes... but yeah, it's hard to say for sure... because you hear so much disinformation and misinformation mixed in with actual information... it's hard to get to the bottom of everything/


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## Xzi (Feb 10, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I heard about the insults, but never actually saw any proof of it, except for hearsay.


"Hearsay" from his own chief of staff and others close to Trump, yes.  Not sure you'd be able to stalk the president close enough to hear this stuff firsthand.



tthousand said:


> From what I have seen and heard, the military loves him... unlike the current.


What you've seen and heard is wrong then.  According to exit polls, the gap was about 52-45 military support in favor of Trump, but even that number for Biden was much smaller prior to the story breaking.



tthousand said:


> P.S. I feel like Trump is a lot more liked over the Bushes... but yeah, it's hard to say for sure... because you hear so much disinformation and misinformation mixed in with actual information... it's hard to get to the bottom of everything/


I don't see why he would be, he's pretty much the exact same brand of neocon.  Run up the debt to line your own pockets, use faux-Christianity as a cudgel, and leave America broken, divided, and in recession.  The only thing he didn't do is start a new war, but he was definitely directing us down that path with Iran.  And yet even in (relative) peacetime he still somehow managed to be responsible for 400K+ dead Americans in a single year.


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## Lacius (Feb 10, 2021)

There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 10, 2021)

Can someone nuke this thread?
We don't need entire separate threads devoted to baseless conspiracies that only exist because some people trust one narcissistic con-man and his talking heads over established reality.


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## smf (Feb 10, 2021)

tthousand said:


> The is a signed affidavit from an official in Italy that not only admits to using the Dominion system to hack the election, but in his confession he explains how it was done as well.



Is there really?

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-debunking-italy-gate-idUSKBN29K2N8

Or is it just cope?


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## Xzi (Feb 10, 2021)

smf said:


> Is there really?
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-debunking-italy-gate-idUSKBN29K2N8
> 
> Or is it just cope?


I assume some 4chan user threw a couple darts at a world map while blindfolded, and the countries they landed on were the ones deemed responsible for Trump's loss.  Next week it'll probably be a new pair.  Definitely a coping mechanism.


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 10, 2021)

smf said:


> Is there really?
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-debunking-italy-gate-idUSKBN29K2N8
> 
> Or is it just cope?


Someone should really get around to banning copioids. They make people spiral into insanity!
But seriously, by the time this complete moron is citing a false rumor about _*an Italian worker using *__*satellites to INTERNATIONALLY HACK INTO AMERICAN VOTING MACHINES TO CHANGE AN ELECTION THEY HAVE NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT,*_ he's lost all form of credibility.


Xzi said:


> I assume some 4chan user threw a couple darts at a world map while blindfolded, and the countries they landed on were the ones deemed responsible for Trump's loss.  Next week it'll probably be a new pair.  Definitely a coping mechanism.


It was Germany a couple months ago, then this thing with Italian satellites, so you're probably not wrong.
Now I'm tempted to start spreading a blatant joke conspiracy on those sites involving a nation that literally does not exist... and see if they eventually try to pin it on *that.*
Maybe an already-established fake nation, or something that's obviously a pun!
I can see it now... "Vacoskatian Stealth Jets Used To Fraudulently Alter Voting Machines With Remote Hacking" (vacca + skata = literally "bullshit" but pulled from both Latin and Greek)


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Real fact, not from a biased fact checking site.

Michigan judge released  forensic audit stating Dominion machines are designed for systemic fraud.


https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772-antrim-county-forensics-report


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## Zap Rowsdower (Feb 11, 2021)

All the alternate reality bullshit they tried to sell dullards on social media, they never once claimed election fraud in court. Why's that? Because there would have been severe consequences for lying without evidence. Its time to admit that you're gullible and learn from it.


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## Schnida (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Real fact, not from a biased fact checking site.
> 
> Michigan judge released  forensic audit stating Dominion machines are designed for systemic fraud.
> 
> ...



wdym "michigan judge released"? it literally tells you on the 1st page who's behind the report. russ ramsland, a tea partier from texas who's been rambling about deep state conspiracies for years.

pretty funny how you're trying to sell this as a real, non biased fact


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Schnida said:


> wdym "michigan judge released"?



The audit was not created by the judge, but a judge is the one who issued the release.

13th Circuit Court Judge Kevin Elsenheimer to be exact.


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## Schnida (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> The audit was not created by the judge, but a judge is the one who issued the release.


i wonder why you only pointed out who released the report and not who actually wrote it because i think the latter says a lot more about its credibility


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## Benja81 (Feb 11, 2021)

Is it that hard to believe that millions more Americans voted for "not the worst president in US history" cause if you think about it that way..


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## WeedZ (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Real fact, not from a biased fact checking site.
> 
> Michigan judge released  forensic audit stating Dominion machines are designed for systemic fraud.
> 
> ...


Then why is it that when they do recounts of the physical ballots the numbers given by the counting machines are accurate?

The antrim County report falsely claimed an 68% error rate in counting machines, which was actually human error that was corrected early on.

Despite the obvious misrepresentation of information, they hand counted the physical ballots. And guess what? The count was accurate to within 12 votes.

So if the votes were double checked physically to compare to the voting machine count, and that count was accurate, what does that say about this report?


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## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Real fact, not from a biased fact checking site.
> 
> Michigan judge released  forensic audit stating Dominion machines are designed for systemic fraud.
> 
> ...


As described in the previous post, not only is there no evidence that there was any widespread election fraud, but we also have evidence that debunks claims about voting machine fraud. Try again.


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## kevin corms (Feb 11, 2021)

Well in Time magazine they admitted to what was done to an extent. Its not even a secret, election was rigged or as they called it "fortified". They even knew about January 6th in advance and were very pleased how it went, just sickening.


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## kevin corms (Feb 11, 2021)

WeedZ said:


> Then why is it that when they do recounts of the physical ballots the numbers given by the counting machines are accurate?
> 
> The antrim County report falsely claimed an 68% error rate in counting machines, which was actually human error that was corrected early on.
> 
> ...


https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
We wont get to know the full extent of the truth, but this is what has been admitted too. It was painfully obvious there was a conspiracy to make sure Biden won. Not only did they cheat Trump, but they screwed Bernie while doing this too. Im tired of all the cognitive dissonance.

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Lacius said:


> As described in the previous post, not only is there no evidence that there was any widespread election fraud, but we also have evidence that debunks claims about voting machine fraud. Try again.


Where is the evidence exactly? Some article that says so? It was plainly written how they got cases dismissed in Time magazine. I also have to remind you these are the same people who told you how fragile elections were in the country, then they did everything they could to make it worse in their favor. They also peddled a conspiracy theory about Russians/Trump for 4 years. Now they are silencing right wing voices, but not only them. They are also quietly silencing Socialists, unions and anyone who doesn't align with Biden's democrats.


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## WeedZ (Feb 11, 2021)

kevin corms said:


> https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
> We wont get to know the full extent of the truth, but this is what has been admitted too. It was painfully obvious there was a conspiracy to make sure Biden won. Not only did they cheat Trump, but they screwed Bernie while doing this too. Im tired of all the cognitive dissonance.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


I skimmed the article and it seems they are admitting to getting voting access to as many people as possible. Im ok with that.


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## Windaga (Feb 11, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ...or why you like saltine Crackers...



I feel personally attacked


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

We have to read between the lines in order to see the truth. The days of the unbiased reporting is long gone, and now we live in a day of infotainment. When you read/watch articles from the left/right, you are most likely only getting half the truth or less, and the rest is spin.


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## djpannda (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> We have to read between the lines in order to see the truth. The days of the unbiased reporting is long gone, and now we live in a day of infotainment. When you read/watch articles from the left/right, you are most likely only getting half the truth or less, and the rest is spin.








As 12 million Americans "know," the United States government is run by lizard people.
the only question now is ....Are they  komodo dragon or Iguana?


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> We have to read between the lines in order to see the truth. The days of the unbiased reporting is long gone, and now we live in a day of infotainment. When you read/watch articles from the left/right, you are most likely only getting half the truth or less, and the rest is spin.


Left: About half, and that's only really because places like CNBC decided to suck the cock of hedge funds recently.
Right: Far, far less than half. If there's such thing as less than 0% truth, it's that.
Just because both sides are flawed doesn't prevent one from being far fundamentally and objectively worse.


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Left: About half, and that's only really because places like CNBC decided to suck the cock of hedge funds recently.
> Right: Far, far less than half. If there's such thing as less than 0% truth, it's that.
> Just because both sides are flawed doesn't prevent one from being far fundamentally and objectively worse.



Have you ever heard of controlled opposition? Where both sides are actually in cahoots, but are made to appear to be conflicting?

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djpannda said:


> As 12 million Americans "know," the United States government is run by lizard people.
> the only question now is ....Are they  komodo dragon or Iguana?



Look up Spirit Science on YouTube, you will see that is false. It is actually allegedly Martians.


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Have you ever heard of controlled opposition? Where both sides are actually in cahoots, but are made to appear to be conflicting?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Of course I've heard of controlled opposition. After the Capitol riots, everyone involved basically instantly accused _everyone ELSE_ of being an antifa plant or something (which makes no sense, since antifa is literally just the ideology of anti-fascism- and even if it WAS an actual organization, it'd be the most disorganized one in existence), and Trump turned against the very rioters he had stirred up and encouraged just days before.


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## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

Here are the facts we know for sure:

Joe Biden is a lizard person created in a lab by the global Illuminati.
He plans to convert all our men into women and turn all our women gay by putting estrogen in the water supply.
He eats babies.
He is very sleepy.
Joe Biden is a devout Communist (he's quoted Karl Marx's _Das Kapital_ multiple times on camera)
He has most likely had sex with Jeffery Epstein one or more times.
He is a deep state plant designed to undermine the patriarchal foundations of our nation by virtue of being a massive sissy baby.
And of course, there are multiple instances online of videos featuring Joe Biden maniacally laughing while talking in-depth about how he doctored all the data to disprove election tampering because he actually got zero votes (the majority of democratic party votes actually went to Bernie but they don't want you to know that.) Of course, those votes still pale in comparison to Trump's votes which account for a whopping 73% of all votes so it's not like the DemoKKKrats had a chance anyways.

This isn't just a conspiracy, it's 100% fact and I'm so glad that we can agree on all of these points.


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Of course I've heard of controlled opposition. After the Capitol riots, everyone involved basically instantly accused _everyone ELSE_ of being an antifa plant or something (which makes no sense, since antifa is literally just the ideology of anti-fascism- and even if it WAS an actual organization, it'd be the most disorganized one in existence), and Trump turned against the very rioters he had stirred up and encouraged just days before.



I do not know if we will ever really get this full story to this, or any other story for that matter. I have a feeling it could be a false flag event, while also having members of both sides (left and right) being involved in the attack. Bottom line, everyone who went in (and if there is found to be paid police letting people in) should all be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I do not know if we will ever really get this full story to this, or any other story for that matter. I have a feeling it could be a false flag event, while also having members of both sides (left and right) being involved in the attack. Bottom line, everyone who went in (and if there is found to be paid police letting people in) should all be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


>Trumpers do bad thing
"must be false flag"
>Dems have a 0.1% chance of having done bad thing
"definitely their fault and ONLY their fault"
it wasn't a false flag because y'all hardcore trumpnuts actually are that fervently batshit insane


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> >Trumpers do bad thing
> "must be false flag"
> >Dems have a 0.1% chance of having done bad thing
> "definitely their fault and ONLY their fault"
> it wasn't a false flag because y'all hardcore trumpnuts actually are that fervently batshit insane



I have never been a trumper, just a constitutionalist. I would argue both sides are guilty of false flagging. The underhand is a bloody one.


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I have never been a trumper, just a constitutionalist. I would argue both sides are guilty of false flagging. The underhand is a bloody one.


dude, you've spouted countless conspiracies regarding democrats but refuse to admit trump's done basically anything wrong
"constitutionalist" is a shitty, oxymoronic (considering any given part of the constitution is one you only really care about when it benefits you and harms whoever disagrees with you) dogwhistle to hide just how far down the trump rabbit hole you've gone, and we all know it


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> dude, you've spouted countless conspiracies regarding democrats but refuse to admit trump's done basically anything wrong
> "constitutionalist" is a shitty, oxymoronic (considering any given part of the constitution is one you only really care about when it benefits you and harms whoever disagrees with you) dogwhistle to hide just how far down the trump rabbit hole you've gone, and we all know it



The simple fact of the matter is my ideas are my own, ones which I have possessed long before Trump was thee President. While it is true some of the theories that have come to light recently coincide with my own theories, it is no reason to believe that I am a Trumper.

I have been saying for 25+ years that if you are into pedophilia, drugs, homosexuality, and/or prostitution... then Politics is the right job for you. I have been saying for 20+ I do not believe the main stream narrative, and I do not believe elections are free and fair. The fact that some are only reaching this idea recently perhaps just goes to show I might have been on to something for a long, long time now.


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## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I have been saying for 25+ years that if you are into pedophilia, drugs, homosexuality, and/or prostitution... then Politics is the right job for you.


Hoo boy you're quite the piece of work aren'tcha

Also, you've been saying this since you were 13??? They sure do indoctrinate em young

I hope this braindead thread gets locked lol


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> The simple fact of the matter is my ideas are my own, ones which I have possessed long before Trump was thee President. While it is true some of the theories that have come to light recently coincide with my own theories, it is no reason to believe that I am a Trumper.
> 
> I have been saying for 25+ years that if you are into pedophilia, drugs, homosexuality, and/or prostitution... then Politics is the right job for you. I have been saying for 20+ I do not believe the main stream narrative, and I do not believe elections are free and fair. The fact that some are only reaching this idea recently perhaps just goes to show I might have been on to something for a long, long time now.


dude
you pin everything on democrats and treat trump like a saint that can do no wrong
you are a trumper
and the fact that "some are only reaching [these conspiracies you spout] recently" doesn't mean you were remotely close to the truth, it means your crazed delusions are spreading like some sort of Dipshit's Plague


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> dude
> you pin everything on democrats and treat trump like a saint that can do no wrong
> you are a trumper
> and the fact that "some are only reaching [these conspiracies you spout] recently" doesn't mean you were remotely close to the truth, it means your crazed delusions are spreading like some sort of Dipshit's Plague



You word "democrats" should be replaced with "politicians", which clearly Trump is not. I am open to the idea he could be a puppet of the underhand, but I am also open to the idea he is part of a movement to bring this country back in to control of the people... which the politicians do not want.


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## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I have been saying for 25+ years that if you are into... homosexuality... then Politics is the right job for you.


You mean because they are an oppressed minority whose basic rights depend on being civically active in a way unoppressed groups have never so much have conceived?

Leave it to a Trumpian conspiracy theorist to also be homophobic. I'm shocked (not really).


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> You word "democrats" should be replaced with "politicians", which clearly Trump is not. I am open to the idea he could be a puppet of the underhand, but I am also open to the idea he is part of a movement to bring this country back in to control of the people... which the politicians do not want.


uh
what
he IS a politician
and before you say "no, he's just a businessman", *getting into politics and running for president basically MAKES someone a politician even if they weren't one before*
and arguably, being a businessman and not a politician is just the reason he managed to fuck everything up so badly due to trying to run a country like a business
and you have been blaming things solely on Democrats
if anything, the one POSSIBLE time you've admitted Republicans have done bad things instead of claiming it was a false flag or some horseshit... was calling former Trumpers traitors or something because they actually came to their fucking senses


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You mean because they are an oppressed minority whose basic rights depend on being civically active in a way unoppressed groups have never so much have conceived?
> 
> Leave it to a Trumpian conspiracy theorist to also be homophobic. I'm shocked (not really).



I am all for people making their own choices, and respecting the choices of others at the same time. When they do not respect others views is where I draw the line. If someone is homesexual, I have no issue with that. If someone is trying to jam their beliefs down my throat, then I highly object.


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## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> If someone is trying to jam their beliefs down my throat, then I highly object.


How would you define what it means for someone to "jam their beliefs down your throat" if I may ask


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> uh
> what
> he IS a politician
> and before you say "no, he's just a businessman", *getting into politics and running for president basically MAKES someone a politician even if they weren't one before*
> ...



We are talking about the current election... but I believe Republicans are responsible for the greatest flame flag of our time, but that is a discussion for another thread.

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Seliph said:


> How would you define what it means for someone to "jam their beliefs down your throat" if I may ask


 Telling me I am supposed to think or feel a certain way. I am very proud to live in a country where I am allowed to think for myself.


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## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I am all for people making their own choices, and respecting the choices of others at the same time. When they do not respect others views is where I draw the line. If someone is homesexual, I have no issue with that. If someone is trying to jam their beliefs down my throat, then I highly object.


Nothing shows respect like suggesting that gay people are deplorable enough to be lumped in with pedophiles, drug-users, prostitutes, and potentially worst of all, politicians.



Spoiler


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## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Telling me I am supposed to think or feel a certain way. I am very proud to live in a country where I am allowed to think for myself.



So would you consider someone telling you that gay people shouldn't be in the same category as criminals to be "jamming their beliefs down your throat"?


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I am all for people making their own choices, and respecting the choices of others at the same time. When they do not respect others views is where I draw the line. If someone is homesexual, I have no issue with that. If someone is trying to jam their beliefs down my throat, then I highly object.


by "jamming their beliefs down my throat" (and btw, they aren't beliefs- homosexuality is genetic, so calling it a belief is like calling someone's eye color a matter of personal choice like you can just alter your iris at whim), I presume you mean "existing and stating that they deserve to exist and be themselves, at all, ever"
fuck off with the DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) argument
it's played to death and makes you look like an oppressive asshole to anyone that can read through it


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## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Telling me I am supposed to think or feel a certain way. I am very proud to live in a country where I am allowed to think for myself.


Gay people don't care how you feel. Nobody is telling you how to feel. That doesn't excuse voting to take anybody's civil rights away, however. If you do that, you're an asshole.


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## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Seliph said:


> So would you consider someone telling you that gay people shouldn't be in the same category as criminals to be "jamming their beliefs down your throat"?



No, I would not be opposed to that. That is a fair assumption. But it does not change my beliefs that if someone where trying to hide their homosexuality, then politics could be a good fit for them. Obviously, these politicians are not claiming to be any of these things. If they are any of the above, then come out and say it. The world would be a better place for it.  BUt when they hide it, and later get caught, it is not a good look for American politicians.

To me, it is all in the way the argument is presented.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> No, I would not be opposed to that.


So you take back what you said about _homosexuals_?


----------



## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Lacius said:


> So you take back what you said about _homosexuals_?


 might I suggest you reread my last post?


----------



## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> if someone where trying to hide their homosexuality, then politics could be a good fit for them.


And uh

What about politics makes it easier to hide homosexuality?

I'd imagine it would be much easier to hide your homosexuality if you entirely avoided politics and did something like... I dunno... simply not telling anyone about your homosexuality and not being a politician. It would be much easier considering you wouldn't be someone that literally anyone could get information on with a simple google search because it is very easy to find info on politicians.

I think you're just trying to backpedal from conflating homosexuality with criminality. Mega cringe.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> might I suggest you reread my last post?


I asked the question to get a direct answer. Do you take back what you said?


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

Seliph said:


> And uh
> 
> What about politics makes it easier to hide homosexuality?
> 
> ...


motte, bailey and bullshit
that's this guy's entire argument (with a dash of DARVO, of course)


----------



## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Seliph said:


> And uh
> 
> What about politics makes it easier to hide homosexuality?
> 
> ...



I feel once you are in a position of power, you are open to corruption and blackmail. As long as you play the game, you can indulge all you want knowing you have the cover to do so. I have seen it many times, including ALL the examples I have referenced. I am simply speaking from a historical point of view.


----------



## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> I feel once you are in a position of power, you are open to corruption and blackmail. As long as you play the game, you can indulge all you want knowing you have the cover to do so. I have seen it many times, including ALL the examples I have referenced. I am simply speaking from a historical point of view.


Oh I guess I should become a politician so I can have as much gay sex as I want then without anyone finding out

instead of

I dunno

Choosing the easier option of simply having gay sex without telling anyone.

Anyways correlating homosexuality with corruption and blackmail really isn't a good look for you.


----------



## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Speaking from my own experiences, the first time I saw political corruption with my own eyes was some 25+ years ago, when I was a young child. And what I saw was a politician get caught have homesexual relationships behind his wife's back using his power of office to do so.

Basically, if you have something to hide, become a politician so you have more power to hide it. If you have nothing to hide, stay away from politics because the corruption is seeded deep.

I suppose I could have said hidden, but I figured that was implied. I apologize for the misunderstanding my assumption created.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Speaking from my own experiences, the first time I saw political corruption with my own eyes was some 25+ years ago, when I was a young child. And what I saw was a politician get caught have homesexual relationships behind his wife's back using his power of office to do so.


It sounds like your issue is with cheaters, not homosexuality. Care to take back your statement yet?


----------



## Seliph (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Speaking from my own experiences, the first time I saw political corruption with my own eyes was some 25+ years ago, when I was a young child. And what I saw was a politician get caught have homesexual relationships behind his wife's back using his power of office to do so.
> 
> Basically, if you have something to hide, become a politician so you have more power to hide it. If you have nothing to hide, stay away from politics because the corruption is seeded deep.


Dude just admit that you're homophobic


----------



## Lacius (Feb 11, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Dude just admit that you're homophobic


Don't get your hopes up. This is a guy who created a thread about a conspiracy theory, called it a conspiracy theory, and won't admit to being a conspiracy theorist.


----------



## tthousand (Feb 11, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Dude just admit that you're homophobic



I cannot. I never have been. But I am against lying and using the power of office to do things you should not be doing.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Again, I suppose I could have said hidden, but I figured that was implied. I apologize for the misunderstanding my assumption created.


----------



## koim (Feb 11, 2021)

The point about Dominion's machines can be pretty much summed up by Sidney Powell's lawsuit in Wisconsin. Most counties she complained about DID NOT use them and the other two... were won by Trump ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
🤦‍♂️ Wisconsin's response to Sidney Powell's lawsuit points out that the Dominion voting machine she says were part of a big election-rigging plot weren't used in most of the counties she's complaining about, and in the two that did use them, Trump won. pic.twitter.com/XgZgHRYtVF— Brad Heath (@bradheath) December 8, 2020


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## djpannda (Feb 11, 2021)

koim said:


> The point about Dominion's machines can be pretty much summed up by Sidney Powell's lawsuit in Wisconsin. Most counties she complained about DID NOT use them and the other two... were won by Trump ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1336116867845517312


oh... maybe thats why she being sued for *4. **BILLION* DOLARS ...


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Feb 11, 2021)

tthousand said:


> For those who wish to have conversation... (if you do not want to listen, then do not expect to be heard)
> 
> *The Theories of the 2020 Election Conspiracy*
> 
> ...


To somewhat quote Jon Stewart,"this is not even ignorant. This is like ignorance resin. Like, if you just take all of the stupid and just cook it down, and then scrape just the pure ignorance. Like crystal "duh." It's like crystal "duh."


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> To somewhat quote Jon Stewart,"this is not even ignorant. This is like ignorance resin. Like, if you just take all of the stupid and just cook it down, and then scrape just the pure ignorance. Like crystal "duh." It's like crystal "duh."


yeah honestly someone needs to call in a moderator
threads like this need to die before the dipshits behind them get any funny ideas about having won an argument they refused to even properly participate in


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Feb 11, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Gay people don't care how you feel


LGBTQ(bi/non-binary to be exact)person here, can confirm


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 11, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> LGBTQ (bi/non-binary to be exact) person here, can confirm


ace here, second that- in fact, I specifically give less than zero fucks about the unstable emotions of delusional, fallacy-brained Trumpnuts whose entire being depends on the quotes of the day from their favorite alt-right talking heads whom simultaneously refuse to admit they are a) a Trumpnut, b) a Republican at all (somehow), c) a conspiracy theorist and d) *not the center of the universe.
*
also ohhhh that's why the "nyan-binary" title


----------



## notimp (Feb 14, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Firstly, there are many claims that there was some form of voter fraud, whether they be minor or widespread. Some have already been arrested for fraud this election, and at the same time there are both current cases and future cases that will help decide what really happened last year. With so many signed affidavits, it is at least worth questioning the validity of this election. If you look at the recent past, you see Democrats have constantly contested the election every single time their party was not elected President.
> 
> Why not look deeply into the election and lay to rest the claims of fraud? Why does media claim Trump "lost" all these court cases, when the truth of the matter is the court cases can neither be considered won or lost?


Layed out partly in here:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/donald-trumps-d-c-speach-01-06-2021.580449/#post-9321894

(We talked about it in the past.  )

So here once more as a rough run down:

More than a third of his accusations (the most 'relevant' ones, from an outsiders (mine  ) perspective, and also the ones Trump started his arguments with), are proposed (as in alleged) voter suppression, or reverse voter suppression cases.

So PR, or organisational action thats aimed at getting more (or fewer) people (in certain counties) to the polls.

Same thing that f.e. targeted facebook advertising does before elections (which is problematic btw. - when it concerns negative campaigning)

He then filled those up with anecdotes "as seen on TV" (but didnt point out, how telling those went down in court), and ongoing court cases (but didnt tell that he lost, 90+% of the ones he brought forward).

Then he used that - at the most inopportune time possible (the latest possible moment), to get crowd action going - to, arguably, topple the election, or at least produce a culminating, emotional mass event.

And in the end he produced, hundreds, literally hundreds of reasons, for why the election would be illegitimate - but did in no way differenciate, the likely ones, the at least probable ones, from by then refuted ones, lies, rumors (voting machine malfeasance, ...), ones the courts threw out, ones that didnt scale, ... and so on.


Looking at the reasons he gave that are hardest to completely refute (largely around voter supression, or reverse voter suppression) - on those he only stated the ones that would have benefited him. But there are known ones out there (voter registration incongruencies, gerrymandering) that are known, and in place 'on the other political side' - which he didnt highlight with even a word.

If you break it down - voter suppression is  "fair game" - and on the legally actionable ones, he lost his argument in court, but didnt tell anyone. Then there are the ones that are very high emotion - but entirely made up ("Castro pigeons on dominion voting machines!"), which he mixed in, just to make the cocktail more tasty - and if you ignore all of that and look at the "structural fraud" claims (the ones, where access to one action would have altered many votes targetedly) there is nothing.

So in the end 100 different claims of fraud - add up to maybe 100 different claims of fraud, with maybe up to a few hundreds to a few thousand votes affected. And that includes stuff, like 'human error' (f.e. people in voting places not being instructed correctly by their supervisors). But you would have to take his point, to only look at those - and not instances, where that happend 'for' the other party, and only at exactly enough of those, for him to turn the election result in four states at once.

And thats not how this works.

Essentially - 'problematic' stuff happens, as a result of f.e. human error on all elections, statistically it usually doesnt matter. If you can prove - that you have identified an issue - thats 'big' statistically, thats very much an issue, and very much actionable. (Courts are there to intervene and issue repeat elections, or...) If you bring 100 separate cases that might, or might not have influenced small stuff by different means - and want it layed out in a way where it only affected you negatively - because, of something you cant prove... its different.

And on the voter suppression stuff - actions there, although immoral, are largely legal.

So you are welcome to bring that out - but please not on the day the election is ratified. Because that helps no one. And if you've listened closely - since that Trump speech, republicans largely havent helmed those as a huge issue, because there is other stuff (voter registration inconsitencies, gerrymandering), thats widely known, and that might show, that arguably their side is even more into that stuff. (Compared to alleged "everyone registered with a home address was sent a voting ticket, and not just everyone registered in the voting register" stuff.)


Also - overall, losing your case in the courts, and then trying to summon a mob, at the most inopportune time for the political system (the last possible date), is kind of problematic for democracy - because everything the democratic system is structured to do - takes time.

And Trumps case - specifically - was, 'at some point we might be able to send back the voter delegations in the states we want them to' tell people, that it is because of 'incongruencies', and declare, that that the governors of those states, are now able to pick their electoral votes, by party affiliation and not by voting results.

So the aim was not 'to make this process more transparent', but pressure people into ignoring the voting result, as a result of 'there is public unrest' - and we need to get a functioning administration on track, so we fall back on emergency regulation. At a time, where he failed to make the argument, in court, that there was structural voting fraud.

So... yeah. If you do that - even once - you send out the signal, that you cant have democracy anymore, because you cant hold fair elections. Which in a democratic system... kind of is an issue also.

So you look at how pressing the issues layed out are (some made up, some legal, most none structural) - and you compare that to the harm you would do to peoples believe in the democratic system - and you choose not to enact 'emergency laws' in exactly the four states the president wants you to.

That said, peoples believe in the democratic system just tanked (current polls) either way - because, they always saw democratic elections as 'city on a hill' stuff, where birds chirp, and nothing should go wrong, and where their votes were sacrosanct and... most of them where confronted with stuff like 'voter suppression' even existing for the first time.

Which isnt good - because the next time around they demand that they arent influenced by PR, and that there should be no human error at all, and then you'd have to explain to them, that thats impossible.


Its much the same problem as with 'what the News doesnt tell me the truthTM?" that we had in the fake news argument. People falling from the clouds, that certain problems exist - even within the most perfect system imaginable (separation of power, people looking into alleged mishaps), then losing trust, and complaining that they want better. But if you then tell them, that they demand, that supervisors not instructing their vote counting staff correctly in 2 cases out of a 30.000...

This is why the statistically relevant stuff (fraud that scales in the favor of one side only) is most important, and we didnt see that in this election.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 19, 2021)

I have still yet to see any evidence worth a damn to prove there was “mass voter fraud.” Most of the “evidence” doesn’t add up or is completely unreliable, like unverified “witnesses.” I feel like if there was some massive conspiracy we wouldn’t see people like Mitch McConnell getting re-election. It makes no sense to keep many of the same people in power if there was a conspiracy grand enough to overthrow the presidential election.


----------



## notimp (Feb 19, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I feel like if there was some massive conspiracy we wouldn’t see people like Mitch McConnell getting re-election.


No one demands proof for feels, right? And you feel that if there was some massive conspiracy, it couldnt have also been complex - so ha, there your proof! Try to argue against that position! 

I personally cant. 

But it also has the exact same elements as conspiracy theories. Just that you prechecked, what was politically correct to say.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 19, 2021)

notimp said:


> No one demands proof for feels, right? And you feel that if there was some massive conspiracy, it couldnt have also been complex - so ha, there your proof! Try to argue against that position!
> 
> I personally cant.
> 
> But it also has the exact same elements as conspiracy theories. Just that you prechecked, what was politically correct to say.


All the bullshit election fraud theories claim a vast and *complex* network of in-some-way fraudulent machines and/or corrupt individuals maintaining or altering them.
You're not even making an argument, you're deflecting to defend a batcrap insane position without admitting it.
Please try harder.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 19, 2021)

notimp said:


> No one demands proof for feels, right? And you feel that if there was some massive conspiracy, it couldnt have been complex - so ha, there your proof! Try to argue against that position!
> 
> I personally cant.
> 
> But it also has the exact same elements as conspiracy theories. Just that you prechecked, what was politically correct to say.


I think it’s a reasonable concern to be confused as how the same people who could “steal an election” but then keep roadblocks like Mitch around. That just doesn’t make much sense to have so much power over the presidential election but then leave so many loose ends. It would have made more sense to also stack all branches, otherwise they aren’t really going to accomplish whatever plans they set out with in the process of overthrowing Trump. I am working off the logic that these conspiracy theories are working on. If there is some massive and powerful group of people who can steal a presidential election, then this group should have also stolen the rest of the election. Just taking the President and nothing else doesn’t add to the grand nature of their conspiracies.


Scott_pilgrim said:


> LGBTQ(bi/non-binary to be exact)person here, can confirm


Genderfluid and bisexual as well, can also confirm.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 19, 2021)

There is no evidence of widespread election fraud, and I think this thread should be allowed to die.


----------



## notimp (Feb 19, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> All the bullshit election fraud theories claim a vast and *complex* network of in-some-way fraudulent machines and/or corrupt individuals maintaining or altering them.
> You're not even making an argument, you're deflecting to defend a batcrap insane position without admitting it.
> Please try harder.


Ok. If I would try to spin up a conspiracy - I would try to not make it obvious at first glance. 

That said - I'm merely here for semantics, not to indicate that there might have been a conspiracy, that was so complex Trump needed close to 100 reasons (at least a third of them manufactured), to make a point in his pre Capitol storming speech. 

The best "thing" protecting you from inticrate "layered" conspiracies, where you drove multiple illicit elements towards a targeted outcome - is the electorals system that doesnt make it trivial to predict future 'key states'.

So hey, maybe the left wingers are correct, and it really was 'community campaigning' that brought the Biden win in the end this time around. Point being, you dont know - what it will be until after the fact. An due to this, you dont know, what states would be easy to win, with minimal additional effort.

Because your campaigning, up to the last week influences outcome.

Its easy to act like Trump and threaten officials after the fact to 'bring me 11.000 votes". Its hard to know where you only needed 11.000 before the fact.

So to drive schemes to layer conspiracies, that dont scale by themselves, in counties you dont know the outcome of, is the stupidest idea ever. 

That said - none of this has anything to do with "I feel if it were true, the obvious person also would have won" - because, why?

Conspiratorial thinking is "having a feeling" (which you know is true and drives a large part of your action) and "complexity reduction".

Both of which you find in that statement. 

If I'd wanted to be really contrarian, I'd point you at the first part of his Capitol speech, where he lists potential voter supression, and reverse voter suppression (get more people to vote, by sending out more ballots, even when not requested) schemes, that are harder to disprove - but Trump did so selectively. (So he didnt hint at the ones helmed by his party. Historically. Which is also why the 'but he told people how the system really works' argument doesnt fly. He told them, very selectively.  (If at all, because I also agree, that at least one third of his accusations were entirely baseless.))


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 19, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I think it’s a reasonable concern to be confused as how the same people could “steal an election” but then keep roadblocks like Mitch around. That just doesn’t make much sense to have so much power over the presidential election but then leave so many loose ends. It would have made more sense to also stack all branches, otherwise they aren’t really going to accomplish whatever plans they set out with in the process of overthrowing Trump. I am working off the logic that these conspiracy theories are working on. If there is some massive and powerful group of people who can steal a presidential election, then this group should have also stolen the rest of the election. Just taking the President and nothing else doesn’t add to the grand nature of their conspiracies.


yeah I don't get it
sure, Biden's win was a comparative landslide that hit so hard that the nation got geographically blue-balled just as much as every last person in it was metaphorically blue-balled waiting for it to finally end...
but we're still practically held hostage by the Republican minority due to not truly having the Senate.
look at a historical election that's actually been PROVEN fraudulent, or one in an authoritarian nation where they're basically just for show, and it's so painfully obviously one-sided that it's not even funny
like, _*100% voter turnout with one candidate getting every last vote*_ levels of ridiculous
nobody would go through with a vast, possibly international voter fraud scheme to win ONE presidential election and *not even bother taking back the Senate majority* for fucks sake


notimp said:


> Ok. If I would try to spin up a conspiracy - I would try to not make it obvious at first glance.
> 
> That said - I merely here for semantics, not to indicate that there might have been a conspiracy, that was so complex Trump needed close to 100 reasons (at least a third of them manufactured), to make a point in his pre Capitol storming speech.
> 
> ...


the fuck are you even saying
I can't even interpret half of this because of how awful the syntax and grammar is, but I can SMELL the motte-and-baileying, ass-backpedaling, off-JAQing _*bullshit*_ strong enough to functionally destroy the human brain at ten paces


----------



## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I think it’s a reasonable concern to be confused as how the same people who could “steal an election” but then keep roadblocks like Mitch around.


How about "he is loyal"? But then I dont believe the election was stolen. I cant argue against logic, thats based on a feeling, that if there was such a thing as a conspiracy, surely they would have cut Mitch out based on, that hes seen as a roadblock (by whom?).


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> How about "he is loyal"? But then I dont believe the election was stolen. I cant argue against logic, thats based on a feeling and somehow knowing, that if there was such a thing as a conspiracy, because surely they would have cut Mitch out based on, that hes seen as a roadblock (by whom?).


The issue with that logic is that it still doesn’t make much sense. Mitch is an obstructionist and doesn’t seem to want to cooperate with Democrats. During the Covid talks he was a constant obstacle to the Democrats. He’s been an obstacle since taking office. If the election was stolen by Democrats, then keeping someone who constantly stands in their way makes no sense. The only way it would make sense is if this conspiracy goes even further back before 2020/2016 elections and he was just playing some long game here. That seems like a very serious stretch of the imagination. In short, it makes no sense to keep someone like him if their goals were some government takeover.


----------



## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The issue with that logic is that it still doesn’t make much sense. Mitch is obstructionist and doesn’t seem to want to cooperate with Democrats.


Camp think isnt all there is to rule a country. There are different fractions within the conservatives as well. He is with the one that ultimately is winning. (If you dont believe in everyone caving to Trumps rhetorics again, for literally almost no reason. The left pundits have a point there. The 'if we dont go populist, whe never will win an election again' talking point is BS. Its not the 'wave of the future'. The people realizing that actually are the intelligent ones. Imho.

Its just, that getting from here to there thats the problem. And for that you'd still could need some populist pull. But it has no position in dictating the future political outlook of your party. If you dont want to go fashist 2.0 - which, lets say most republicans dont want to.)


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> Camp think isnt all there is to rule a country. There are different fractions withing the conservatives as well. He is with the one that ultimately is winning. (If you dont believe in everyone caving to Trumps rhetorics again, for literally almost no reason. The left pundits have a point there. The 'if we dont go populist, whe never will win an election again' talking point is BS. Its not the 'wave of the future'.)


I don't think you understand the point I am trying to make. My point is more to focus on the idea that a grand conspiracy about Democrats trying to take over the country has weird holes in it. These holes mostly revolve around the fact that they really did a pretty poor job at actually enacting their plan because they left people that don't want to cooperate with them in power. If the plan was to put Biden in power and then have some Democrat takeover, they did a pretty poor job at actually executing it. A better takeover would have been to also rig the senate election to ensure they ended up with the least amount of opposition as possible. It makes very little sense to just target one position of power and leave the rest up to chance.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> How about "he is loyal"? But then I dont believe the election was stolen. I cant argue against logic, thats based on a feeling, that if there was such a thing as a conspiracy, surely they would have cut Mitch out based on, that hes seen as a roadblock (by whom?).


Nice backpedaling, but tbh Mitch does things for power and power alone. He's broken every standard, law and form of common sense he can get away with for the sake of more power. Heck, he's half the reason there was so much (later proven demonstrably right) paranoia over Russian interference in 2016, due to having literal millions of Russian donations up his ass.
Mitch wouldn't side with Dems though... we're too hard to fool when he isn't in a situation where he can put our _majority_ in a hostage situation by basically bullying the government.


----------



## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> Nice backpedaling, but tbh Mitch does things for power and power alone.


Which makes him a loyalist.  I dont disagree with anything in your previous posting.


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> Which makes him a loyalist.  I dont disagree with anything in your previous posting.


I just mean that he's seen as a roadblock by damn near everyone, as he IS a roadblock for anything and everything left-wing.
He'll cross every single line possible... except the party line.


----------



## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I just mean that he's seen as a roadblock by damn near everyone, as he IS a roadblock for anything and everything left-wing.
> He'll cross every single line possible... except the party line.


Who wants left wing progress? Isnt the game, just to get over the wall steet donors, so you can win the next election?

Mitch guaranteed that (too much inaction), and he is a guarantee for the stability of your political opponent, no? You dont want Trumpism to take over, do you? (Thats what almost cost you the election this time around, remember the 'latino voters' that showed up, and shouldnt have? NYT (as well as that political camp) was very enraged. That wasnt what was supposed to happen (Trump getting the second highest voter turnout historically).)


----------



## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> Who wants left wing progress? Isnt the game, just to get over the wall steet donors, so you can win the next election?
> 
> Mitch guaranteed that (too much inaction), and he is a guarantee for the stability of your political opponent, no? You dont want Trumpism to take over, do you? (Thats what almost cost you the election this time around, remember the 'latino voters' that showed up, and shouldnt have? NYT (as well as that political camp) was very enraged. That wasnt what was supposed to happen (Trump getting the second highest voter turnout historically).)


the goal is progress
unfortunately, republicans have learned that all they care about is winning, and so they've prioritized voter suppression tactics and various other flavors of unsavory bullshit
so we basically have to throw every flavor of NON-unsavory bullshit we can at them in an attempt to bypass their wall of schmuckery before we can even focus on actually making progress


----------



## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> the goal is progress


Is it?

Is that why the US has political dynasties? 

The goal might be to have 'just enough progress'. 

From my point of view, the US people voted for 'progress' (change) for four times in a row - and got, nothing. They even voted Trump in at the last elections, just because people thought he'd 'stick it to the man' - which of course, he didnt, so sad. Also, some of them might have wanted more economic growth, or infrastructure investments, wait - what progress are we talking about?

Identity politics? Progress we can believe in (the one from the slogans)?

The progress of "healing the nation"? (Lets do it like Obama?)

No, no - I know, the progress of not canceling stundet debt, and conspiring against Sanders election chances!
There we go.

Boy, the US must really hate the UK narrative by now - that, nationalism was progress. For the people. Thats probably why they now publically shun Bojo (not want to get seen with him in the same panel, like in the munich security conference for example). They dont do it to Trump of course. So much progress...


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> Is it?
> 
> Is that why the US has political dynasties?
> 
> ...


I repeat: we would have progress if we could have both progress and not an immediate disastrous loss.
Unfortunately, the Republicans have basically formed a brick wall barring us from getting EITHER, maybe pulling off one of the two on occasion if we're lucky.
We'd have progress by now if it weren't for figures like Mitch McConnell that still remain active and instrumental in pushing us around even while we're the majority.


----------



## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> I repeat: we would have progress if we could have both progress and not an immediate disastrous loss.
> Unfortunately, the Republicans have basically formed a brick wall barring us from getting EITHER, maybe pulling off one of the two on occasion if we're lucky.
> We'd have progress by now if it weren't for figures like Mitch McConnell that still remain active and instrumental in pushing us around even while we're the majority.


The US wouldnt have progress for anything in the world.
As we are debating, I'm watching the PR aftermath of the munich security conference (a round table you could coin 'the battle of the mouth pieces'), where the US representative, has just - smuggly - stated, that internationally the US have all the leaverage, and that 'its much harder for our friends in Europe and east asia, but tough decisions need to be made'.

F*ck that.

US wants to go down in inaction an economic centralism. Where all that counts are its immediate neighbors (mexico and canada), and maybe india.

Thats the progress you were aiming for - because thats what you are getting. With Biden.

Domestic politics - lets not start pretending, that anyone cares about generation barista, and 'hanging phones from the trees to get gigworking jobs'. I've personally sat in meetups with of that political orientation, were people were brought in to manage that crap. Here have the email address, of a former google PR person. I could share if you like?

What progress?

Dont hide behind empty left against right battles - over absolutely nothing. The US hasnt stood for progress in about three decades now. At least none, that would have benefited middle classes.

The progress of intellectual property rights? The progress of not allowing the world to tax your tech companies? The progress of threatening trade tariffs? The progress of making the world pay more for military services? The progress of retreating from the middle east, threatening international trade structures? The progress of exiting and then reentering the paris climate accords?

What progress?


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## Deleted member 532471 (Feb 20, 2021)

i do have a theory about it

i have a theory that people like you who like to think you're an enlightened intellectual, people that have some kind of knowledge that lets you see beyond 
fail basic observation skills, as in, you're just a tool for some organized troll group who wants to see shit go down
you and other people who were baited into this such as yourself, just start projecting a magical reality because it's more interesting than what really is going on
once you're in a group, it becomes just a big echo chamber, where the fanfics go wild and the reality is ignored because it's not fun, it's not convenient, and worst of all, it has consequences

super spies, plot twists, turnabouts, secret heroes and villains, secret plans, lookalikes, treason... a whole political novela
 if even a slither of the real information behind this kind of thing leaked to the public, it wouldn't be in a group with a bunch of crazy loudmouths, the person who leaked it and everyone who came in contact with them would have their necks snapped in a matter of minutes

you were just naive enough to fall for the viral part of the trump campaign my dude

the whole issue with viral media is that you can't track the source, so literally anyone can do it, even brands


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> The US wouldnt have progress for anything in the world.
> As we are debating, I'm watching the PR aftermath of the munich security conference (a round table you could coin 'the battle of the mouth pieces'), where the US representative, has just - smuggly - stated, that internationally the US have all the leaverage, and that 'its much harder for our friends in Europe and east asia, but touch decisions need to be made'.
> 
> F*ck that.
> ...


The battles aren't empty.
They're between a side that at worst will maintain the status quo, and a side that at BEST will bring back the worst possible elements of the past, and at worst introduce entirely new forms of hatred into law.


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## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

Plasmaster09 said:


> The battles aren't empty.
> They're between a side that at worst will maintain the status quo, and a side that at BEST will bring back the worst possible elements of the past, and at worst introduce entirely new forms of hatred into law.


Agreed. (I was wrong on that point.) But as far as political results are concerned... Not so many, in the past two decades, that could be pronounced 'progress' ('for the people' or 'for societies').


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## MikaDubbz (Feb 20, 2021)

Of course there was no major election fraud.  We just know that Trump is a sore loser and made it clear when he was running for president in 2016 that he would not accept any outcome except if he won back then as well.  As I recall he said, "I'll accept the outcome of the election... only if I win."  He laid it all out on the table, only if he won the election (in 2016) would he accept the outcome of the election, and presumably, if he lost he'd challenge it and declare fraud.  Because in his head, the only way he could lose would be if it were fixed; god forbid the real possibility exists that not as many people adore him as he assumes.


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## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

MikaDubbz said:


> Of course there was no major election fraud.  We just know that Trump is a sore loser and made it clear when he was running for president in 2016 that he would not accept any outcome except if he won back then as well.  As I recall he said, "I'll accept the outcome of the election... only if I win."  He laid it all out on the table, only if he won the election (in 2016) would he accept the outcome of the election, and presumably, if he lost he'd challenge it and declare fraud.  Because in his head, the only way he could lose would be if it were fixed; god forbid the real possibility exists that not as many people adore him as he assumes.


Well, that doesnt jell well with the argument, that democratic forces are under attack from all sides, the US just made at the munich security conference - which indicates, they very much still would like to blame that one on outside forces.

Also it doesnt explain, why the republican party as a whole has such a hard time distancing themselves from the Trump wing.

(He's coming back as a political figure in some form - and if its just 'handing over the batton', dont you worry...  (If i'd had to bet..  ))

edit: Biden shuns Bin Salman - now surely - thats the progress you were looking for. 


(This time from RT - but eh...)

And dont you worry, he held talks with the King instead.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/17/middleeast/saudi-biden-mbs-robertson-intl/index.html

Also MBS will be in on future calls.

But the posturing - oh, so much progress in that! The US postures, and that alone is to be seen as progress. Apparently.

edit:

Found the progress everyone was looking for!






Gender-based violence negative rappers in Namibia.

Theres your future top position in the 'what do you want to become, when you are grown up" charts. Go to Namibia first they said. Maybe bring them some bitcoin, they said. (And get the birth rate down.)

Cool hand movements though.

Oh, and dont believe one word, if someone tells you that this is mostly PR.

edit: Video: https://www.dw.com/en/choose-what-is-right-rapper-ees-urges-end-to-gender-based-violence/av-56602177


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## MikaDubbz (Feb 20, 2021)

Lol gotta love the move to attacking complete different things than what I was addressing at all.


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

MikaDubbz said:


> Lol gotta love the move to attacking complete different things than what I was addressing at all.


Because he has no argument for what you addressed, so felt the need to deflect to save his own ass. (Just like Trump!)
Pretty much the only decent point he's brought up is the fact that the Republicans still stick to Trump like a parasite sticking to another, larger parasite... except that can be explained by the fact that _he's turned them into a fucking personality cult and has become *their best possible option *due to how much of the party goes with him and him exclusively over anyone or anything else._


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## notimp (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> Found the progress everyone was looking for!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Btw: Here is the solution to this very enigmatic riddle. 



Music video was produced in cooperation with DW (the german state financed foreign policy news outlet).

So my country (well almost..  ) does PR, how about yours?


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## Plasmaster09 (Feb 20, 2021)

notimp said:


> Btw: Here is the solution to this very enigmatic riddle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine does PR far better than it did a few months ago, that's for sure.
Biden's PR plays (or rather, things that might be PR plays but could also just be him _living his life_) are basically just doing kinda-wholesome regular-people activities. Like the classic politician "I'm just like you people" spiel, but actually reasonable since he actually does the regular-people things in regular-people places in front of regular people.
Trump's PR plays were, to put it lightly, disastrous.
Y'all remember the time he had the police pull out rubber bullets and tear gas and go no-mercy with them on completely peaceful supporters so that he could hold a photo-op with a Bible he held backwards and upside-down?


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## notimp (Feb 21, 2021)

So progress now is 'just doing kinda-wholesome regular-people activities'. 

The purpose of this little game was to get people away from the 'my guy, vs. your guy' think, because thats not how politics works most of the time. The only thing I can notice the Biden administration do differently in terms of domestic politics is to employ more identity based themes. Which got them a 'please dont push internationally, you are ruining our societies - communiqué' from france. And apart from that - everything, including tax policy - for the most part, has stayed the same. On foreign politics, US went back into the Paris climate accord, wowed to get back into talks with iran and thats it. Maybe add some posturing, that they are back internationally - mostly meaning, that they arent, and that their focus still is very much on the Atlantic. China still is regarded as an enemy.

So - nothing changed. Substantially. Take the politics of the first racial minority *enter position here* and try to identify what is different, apart from symbol politics that werent "structural" in the first place.

Border agencies still largely get legal immunity and increased funding (dreamers now got an eight year (!) entry path into the US), delocation into border towns didnt stop. Fences should be replaced with drones. On Covid Fauci gets TV time again, which I guess you could see as progress, and after some posturing, that the Trump government did no organizing for vaccine drives (because vaccines werent available), you now get most of your available doses moved (early on - the real problems on vaccine distribution in the US start later (with regions, where there is no infrastructure - so zero Covid is no option)). And thats it nothing else changed.

You can spout presidential names all day - but if the politics of republicans and democrats largely are the same why bother? Even taxcuts largely stayed the same - that was the concession made to wallstreet. Going back into the Paris climate accord is the only action that will influence the future outlook of corporations and job creation - apart from that, its an entirely blank sheet on political ideas and positions.

"Mending" foreign relations is a nice meme, but the fact is, that your past partners, which also wil be your partners in the future, used the four years to get busy and create new realities on the ground, so even if the rhetorics now changed, you arent changing that back. You just left everyone with more uncertainty - because internationally 'America first' now just became 'where would you be without the US' - which is essentially the same.

For all the 'we did it Joe, we did it!" posturing - you did, what? Here go over the list, and go over future open appointees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Joe_Biden

And tell me what change is.

All the political concessions made after the George Floyd incident, havent become structural changes on the national stage, ...

edit: Here go over that, and tell me where the progress can be found in all of this:
https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/p...-administration-changes-in-the-first-100-days

Most of those are just reversals on the surface, or the elimination of steps (entry bans), that were symbol politics in the first time.



> Increases U.S. green cards under the Diversity Visa Program from 55,000 to 80,000



You are a nation of 330 million people.

Or here:
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/biden-administrations-opportunity-change

The first part is undoing republicans gerrymandering - to ensure future electability of the democratic party.

The second point is reigning back structural issues they US had for 30 years, a bit.
edit: Not to glance over this too much, actually - if this becomes reality, the most notable item people could imagine the Biden administration doing is, to reduce the US prison population ( https://www.statista.com/statistics...h-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/ ).

The third point is reducing presidential power.

Then you add 'fight white supremacy' and call it a day.

Those are just the first two google results I've found, so if you know of any more substancial proposals, please bring them forward.

So again, for all of the verbal fighting over 'democrats stole the elections' - nothing but symbol politics changed.


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## Luke94 (Feb 26, 2021)

Joe Biden is pedophile of Deepstate according to Q Anon.


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## tthousand (Feb 26, 2021)

Luke94 said:


> Joe Biden is pedophile of Deepstate according to Q Anon.


That speculation (and most of the others) was around a long, long time before Q Anon came to be.


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## Luke94 (Feb 26, 2021)

tthousand said:


> That speculation (and most of the others) was around a long, long time before Q Anon came to be.


Yeah. I guess that’s what republicans have spoken.


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## Spider_Man (Feb 26, 2021)

trump lost the vote and is a sore looser wasting tax payers money with courts claiming fraud, noted the irony how he already cried this when he was in the lead.

funny the votes turned against him and now wants to make out its fraud, problem is how a nation can be brainwashed by this moron and actually support him.

but regardless who you vote for, you never actually have a say, its all mirrors and smoke screens, they dont give a fuck about you, just feeding its greedy empire and those that finance their parties are the ones who get to dictate.

one simple thing to point this out, is that youd think by now that all of america would have safe drinking water, yet theres loads left with water thats not safe to drink.


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## tthousand (Feb 26, 2021)

Luke94 said:


> Yeah. I guess that’s what republicans have spoken.



Perhaps more people are aware of the theory now than there were before the Q Anon movement, but it had been speculated while he was still Vice President. Not necessarily by Republicans, but who knows how deep the rabbit whole truly goes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Retroboy said:


> trump lost the vote and is a sore looser wasting tax payers money with courts claiming fraud, noted the irony how he already cried this when he was in the lead.
> 
> funny the votes turned against him and now wants to make out its fraud, problem is how a nation can be brainwashed by this moron and actually support him.
> 
> ...



A lot of truth in these statements, and I agree with some of your points.


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## Seliph (Feb 26, 2021)

Dear god why is this thread still alive


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## tthousand (Feb 26, 2021)

Seliph said:


> Dear god why is this thread still alive



Same could be said for a lot of things. In the meanwhile, we're just sitting here waiting for Jesus to come...

​


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## Luke94 (Feb 26, 2021)

tthousand said:


> Same could be said for a lot of things. In the meanwhile, we're just sitting here waiting for Jesus to come...
> 
> ​



What if it’s Antichrist? How to recognize him? What if he had wife & kids instead and was never crucified? He had his own conspiracy theories. I guess he was Alien for jewish elite that paid Judas to get rid-off him for two royal mafia-like group guys.


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