# School shooting in Colorado



## x65943 (May 8, 2019)

There was a school shooting in Colorado yesterday

Currently 1 student has died, and 8 others were injured

Reports indicate at least one shooter was disarmed by brave students, one of whom lost his life

For possibly the first time, one of the shooters is suspected to have made edits to Wikipedia alluding to the shooting before it occurred.

The page read:

"_Anti suicide programs are implemented _[in the school]_ to help lower chances of suicide and school shootings._"

The following comment was added by an anonymous editor April 29th: "Do they work? We shall see".

This is the first fatal mass shooting since Columbine to include two perpetrators (the Columbine shooting also took place in Colorado - 20 years and 2 weeks before this most recent shooting)

Likely also the first shooting to involve a trans woman as an assailant


> Spurlock adjusted what he said Tuesday and said the juvenile suspect in the shooting, whose name and age has not been released, was a female. He originally said the suspect was male on Tuesday, but said Wednesday that officials originally thought the suspect was male by their “appearance.”
> 
> Sources told Denver7 late Tuesday that the juvenile suspect is in the process of transitioning from female to male.



The White House press secretary was quoted as saying,


> "Our prayers are with the victims, family members, and all those affected by today’s shooting"


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## Superbronx (May 8, 2019)

Horrible tragedy. Even though only one student lost their life it's still crazy. In my school days we never had a shooting but one time a student who had endured all he could from the school bully, pulled a knife in the lunchroom and stabbed the bully in the stomach. Another time we had a drunk dad come into the school and yell at and punch our principal. My friends and I dragged the guy off our principal.


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## sarkwalvein (May 9, 2019)

How can there be so many school shootings in the USA?


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## x65943 (May 9, 2019)

Considering 1/20 or 5% of the world's population lives in the USA - quite a few schools


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## Superbronx (May 9, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> How can there be so many schools in the USA?


As of 2016 there were a little over 34 thousand high schools in the USA. That's not including elementary and middle schools nor colleges.

Oops my bad. It was actually over 92 thousand. The 34 thousand was private schools.


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## Aletron9000 (May 9, 2019)

It makes me upset to think we live in a world that currently seems to be having school shootings every one or two months. It just isn't right.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

Aletron9000 said:


> It makes me upset to think we live in a world that currently seems to be having school shootings every *one or two months*. It just isn't right.


Shit I wish.  Right now it's like every one to two days.  And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers."  America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.


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## Kioku_Dreams (May 9, 2019)

Hmm... another person whose mental state was all but destroyed leading to a violent streak... Weird... WEIRD. Let's see how many of you blame the gun.... instead of the real issue. 

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Xzi said:


> Shit I wish.  Right now it's like every one to two days.  And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers."  America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.



What did Obama do differently? Ah... Nothing... Literally has ZERO to do with Trump.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

Memoir said:


> Let's see how many of you blame the gun.... instead of the real issue.


Ronald Reagan dismantling all traces of a mental healthcare system in this country?



Memoir said:


> What did Obama do differently? Ah... Nothing... Literally has ZERO to do with Trump.


Obama pushed for stricter gun laws after Sandy Hook and several other shootings.  Republicans and the gun lobby pushed back hard, so nothing ended up happening.  I believe the Rs had a majority in the House and Senate by that time.


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## gizmomelb (May 9, 2019)

I'm in Australia.  After we had a mass shooting incident some 23 years ago OUR GOVERNMENT had the balls to make firearms illegal for the general populace.  You have to pass strict checks for registration of a firearm - so farmers, hunters, recreational firearms owners can still use and enjoy their guns, however there are very tight controls in place.


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## Hanafuda (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Shit I wish.  Right now it's like every one to two days.  And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers."  America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.



CNN says 15 this year so far, and when you look at the list, most aren't what we think of when we hear "school shooting."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/us/school-shootings-us-2019-trnd/index.html


Of the 15 ...

5 happened at colleges/universities. Only one of these, at UNC at the end of April, was a 'school shooting' in the sense the public usually considers it. The others were shootings in dorms and at frat houses. Probably during parties, all involving adults. One was an accidental discharge.

1 involved a BB gun. Whether intentional or not is not reported. Nor was it a firearm.

1 involved a child getting shot while riding the bus as an unintended target of a drive-by shooting.

1 involved an adult entering a school to shoot an adult (school employee), not any students.

1 involved an after-hours car theft attempt of a vehicle that happened to be parked in a school parking lot. The shooter was an adult, non-student.

1 happened in an elementary school parking lot at 11pm, in which a high school student was shot by a person he knew. (partying? drug deal?)

Excluding the UNC shooting in April and the Colorado shooting yesterday, the remainder were intentional shootings of one intended person. At least one of those involved a drug deal gone bad on school property. Another involved two adults (18 and 21) who were ejected from a school basketball game after fighting with a female student, who waited till she left the game to shoot her.



I'm not pointing any of this out to excuse these incidents. They were all criminal acts (well, I'm not sure about the BB gun). Even the unintentional discharge incidents still most likely occurred where possession of a firearm was prohibited. But before taking statistics at face value, it's important to evaluate the criteria by which the claimed result was compiled. CNN says 15 "school shootings." I see 2 that qualify as "school shootings" in the context we usually consider it, and a few others that could be included because they were 1) intentional and 2) they did occur at a school. But 1 person shooting one other person for a reason, even an illegal or stupid reason, is not the same as a person hellbent on multiple homicides coming into a school to commit carnage. 

For most of CNN's 15 incidents, the "school" element was simply incidental.


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## x65943 (May 9, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> CNN says 15 this year so far, and when you look at the list, most aren't what we think of when we hear "school shooting."
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/us/school-shootings-us-2019-trnd/index.html
> 
> ...


Including the bb gun in the 15 shootings is absolutely ridiculous

What a misleading figure


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## slaphappygamer (May 9, 2019)

Fucking horrible that we have to worry about our loved ones when they go to school. My wife and some other friends are teachers and we also have kids going through elementary school now. Super depressing. Can’t we just have fist fights at the flag pole after school like we used to. At least all the kids could go home. Guns in a fight are for sissies. Respect life. You don’t get a second chance.


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## chrisrlink (May 9, 2019)

screw the NRA they're part of the problem thinking automatic weapons should be in the hand of civilians mind you if you even try to rebel you get the needle (Treason carries the death penalty) anyway you slice it rebeleon is out of the question so why give people automatic weaponry in the first place?

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gizmomelb said:


> I'm in Australia.  After we had a mass shooting incident some 23 years ago OUR GOVERNMENT had the balls to make firearms illegal for the general populace.  You have to pass strict checks for registration of a firearm - so farmers, hunters, recreational firearms owners can still use and enjoy their guns, however there are very tight controls in place.


and tell me since that mass shooting has  intentional shooting incidents gone down? (also you don't see an Aussie rebelion over this strange huh?, try that here and a second civil war will break out.....sad)


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## x65943 (May 9, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> screw the NRA they're part of the problem thinking automatic weapons should be in the hand of civilians mind you if you even try to rebel you get the needle (Treason carries the death penalty) anyway you slice it rebeleon is out of the question so why give people automatic weaponry in the first place?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


One thing about history is this, only the losing side are traitors

If the Brits had won the revolutionary war, Benedict Arnold would be hailed as a great war hero, and Washington no better than Jefferson Davis


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## gizmomelb (May 9, 2019)

chrisrlink said:


> and tell me since that mass shooting has intentional shooting incidents gone down? (also you don't see an Aussie rebelion over this strange huh?, try that here and a second civil war will break out.....sad)



yes, they have gone down substantially - even with illegal importing / manufacturing of firearms by crime groups keeping the numbers fairly stable over the past decade or so.

https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/10/total_number_of_gun_deaths

It has never been a ''right'' (LAUGHABLE) to carry guns in Australia and there have only been a few situations in which citizens have had to violently rebel against the government.

I can understand that the USA founders thought it important as they forcefully declared independence from the British and were concerned with being invaded and put under control once again.   However laws should change to reflect the times.

Most civilian fights in Australia are resolved with fists - there has been a growing number of people carrying knives over the past two or three decades (mostly from a larger immigrant population from Asia and the Middle East - where knife fighting / assault is more common) but carrying knives is also illegal in Australia, except for reasonable exemptions for work reasons.   The general consensus is if you're in a fight and you need to pull a weapon, then you're looked down upon as being weak and a coward.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> CNN says 15 this year so far, and when you look at the list, most aren't what we think of when we hear "school shooting."


Yeah, I suppose I was referring more to shootings/mass shootings in general.  It's still ludicrously frequent considering other first-world countries max out at like two school shootings a year, and the US is usually in the hundreds.


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## Deleted User (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Yeah, I suppose I was referring more to shootings/mass shootings in general.  It's still ludicrously frequent considering other first-world countries max out at like two school shootings a year, and the US is usually in the hundreds.


What do you mean by "other"? You have to be a civilized nation to come and sit with us at the first-world table.


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## Thunder Hawk (May 9, 2019)

x65943 said:


> Including the bb gun in the 15 shootings is absolutely ridiculous
> 
> What a misleading figure


That's CNN for you.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

Snugglevixen said:


> What do you mean by "other"? You have to be a civilized nation to come and sit with us at the first-world table.


Err, first-world countries other than the US.  Didn't think that was unclear.


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## WD_GASTER2 (May 9, 2019)

nothing changes. nothing will change. another day another bunch of thoughts and prayers.
another day a bunch of people will argue is that the solution is more guns.


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## Paulsar99 (May 9, 2019)

Rip to that brave student. Also since its a trans woman did the crime I'm expecting media silence in this one.


Xzi said:


> Shit I wish.  Right now it's like every one to two days.  And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers."  America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.


Because there never was any school shootings during obama right?


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## gizmomelb (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Err, first-world countries other than the US.  Didn't think that was unclear.



She was implying ''other'' countries have 0 school shootings per year and USA is uncivilised.  Whoosh!


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## Captain_N (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Shit I wish.  Right now it's like every one to two days.  And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers."  America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.



If dems are in office its lets take away guns.... So whats the point of bringing up politics? we all know you hate trump it solves nothing. What is trump supposed to do, time travel and prevent it from happening?


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

Unleanone999 said:


> Because there never was any school shootings during obama right?


There was a willingness to do something about it.  Which is something we know better than to expect under a Republican president.



gizmomelb said:


> She was implying ''other'' countries have 0 school shootings per year and USA is uncivilised.  Whoosh!


So she was basically just reiterating my point?  I said two school shootings _at max_ per year for other first-world countries.  On average it's definitely zero.


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## Pipistrele (May 9, 2019)

Ssuperbronx said:


> As of 2016 there were a little over 34 thousand high schools in the USA. That's not including elementary and middle schools nor colleges.
> 
> Oops my bad. It was actually over 92 thousand. The 34 thousand was private schools.





x65943 said:


> Considering 1/20 or 5% of the world's population lives in the USA - quite a few schools


It'll take some calculation, but I still think if we add up all the schools from different European countries, they won't get nearly as many school shootings that US had - I mean, in many places it's still a massive national tragedy when something like that happens.

Not a huge fan of participating in political debates, so I'll avoid the whole "pro-gun/anti-gun" discussion, but I do think we shouldn't dance around two rather clear facts: 1) US has an epidemic problem with mass shootings, and 2) it has at least some correlation with US having some of the more easily available guns.


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## Hanafuda (May 9, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> nothing changes. nothing will change. another day another bunch of thoughts and prayers.
> another day a bunch of people will argue is that the solution is more guns.



Well, what gun control law would have prevented this shooting? The shooters used handguns, but the oldest of the two involved is 18. Handguns aren't legal for under 21. So that law did nothing to prevent this. And taking a gun into a school isn't legal either, but that law also did nothing. Simply put, you can pass laws, but getting people who want to commit crimes to follow those laws is another matter.




Pipistrele said:


> It'll take some calculation, but I still think if we add up all the schools from different European countries, they won't get nearly as many school shootings that US had - I mean, in many places it's still a massive national tragedy when something like that happens.



Comparing European vs. American statistics on this issue is meaningless. Obviously some want to simply blame "guns" but we've always had civilian ownership of firearms. And there were far fewer legal restrictions re: guns in the past here. But school shootings are a phenomenon that has developed over the last couple decades. When I was in high school (early 80's), it was common for guys to go hunting in the morning before school and then come to school with their rifle hanging in the back window of their truck. No biggie then. Nobody shot the place up, nobody was worried that someone was going to shoot the place up. So what changed? Every time there's been a school shooting, it's accompanied by hysteria and hand-wringing and glamorization via media coverage. Most schools in the US now hold emergency drills on what to do if there's a school shooting. The idea that this is something that can happen (and for those evil enough, that they can do) is forcibly planted.

It reminds me of a scene in the movie "Heathers" where after a student is believed to have committed suicide, the guidance counselor organizes a "Teen Suicide: Don't Do It!" week. She gives a speech to the students where she says, "Whether or not to kill yourself is one of the most important decisions a teenager has to make."


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## WD_GASTER2 (May 9, 2019)

what exactly are you trying to prove? did i just advocate for gun laws? I just said nothing will change. I dont see your arguing proving otherwise.
just thoughts and prayers because that is all that can be done right?
I did say another day where people where will advocate for more guns as a solution I dont think i am incorrect in saying that either.


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## Pipistrele (May 9, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Well, what gun control law would have prevented this shooting? The shooters used handguns, but the oldest of the two involved is 18. Handguns aren't legal for under 21. So that law did nothing to prevent this. And taking a gun into a school isn't legal either, but that law also did nothing. Simply put, you can pass laws, but getting people who want to commit crimes to follow those laws is another matter.


I constantly hear this argument when it comes to mass shootings, and it never made sense to me honestly. Saying "We don't need gun control because criminals will obtain guns if they want to" is kinda like saying "We don't need locks because burglars will find their way in anyway".


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

Captain_N said:


> If dems are in office its lets take away guns...


Every time anyone posts this, I'll have to remind them that only one president in the history of the US has ever seriously suggested "taking away guns" without due process.


(Quote at 41 seconds)


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## wurstpistole (May 9, 2019)

As a European, I fail to understand why weapons are still sold freely there.
In my opinion it is of course the #1 reason for school shootings - without easy access to guns, no shootings, simple as that.
Fuck your second amendment. That needs to be revoked.

But then there's guys like this:


Memoir said:


> Let's see how many of you blame the gun.... instead of the real issue.


Well I am pretty sure there's mental issues in Europe as well, that is not exclusive to America.


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## WD_GASTER2 (May 9, 2019)

ooh xzi but didnt ya know that was before he was told that was a naughty thing to say.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> ooh xzi but didnt ya know that was before he was told that was a naughty thing to say.


But well after Trump had declared himself a "big second amendment guy."  So I guess that verifies he had never actually read the second amendment.


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## WD_GASTER2 (May 9, 2019)

he holds the best beliefs. He knows only the best amendments. believe me.
On the topic at hand though the number of these incidents has TRAGICALLY RAMPED UP. I dont know what can be said that has not been said on this issue.


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## Hanafuda (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> But well after Trump had declared himself a "big second amendment guy."  So I guess that verifies he had never actually read the second amendment.



Or the due process clause.

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Pipistrele said:


> I constantly hear this argument when it comes to mass shootings, and it never made sense to me honestly. Saying "We don't need gun control because criminals will obtain guns if they want to" is kinda like saying "We don't need locks because burglars will find their way in anyway".




You're talking about a country where a Prohibition on liquor caused the genesis of organized crime and a major violent crime wave that lasted a decade before the gave up and made liquor legal again. The prohibition on 'drugs' has created a gang violence and drug cartel crisis that results in thousands of murders a year both in the US and in the supplier countries. I think it's reasonable to expect that a prohibition on firearms would follow this trend.

Ending/reforming the federal prohibition on recreational drug use and the black market industry it creates would be the best way to cut gun crime in the US. I doubt it would do much for the 'mass shooting' incidents, but statistically they're not significant.


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## WD_GASTER2 (May 9, 2019)

In other words it sounds like we are stuck with the status quo.


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## Hanafuda (May 9, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> In other words it sounds like we are stuck with the status quo.



I added an edit just above your post and suggested what I think is the main problem causing gun crime in the US. It would definitely change the status quo. Recreational drug use is a personal issue. Drug abuse is a healthcare issue. Treating either as criminal just makes for a business opportunity for people not concerned with laws. And people not concerned with laws are willing to defend their crimes with violence.


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## WD_GASTER2 (May 9, 2019)

If you think that de-criminalization is going to happen anytime soon...I think you may end up waiting a very long time.
Ultimately that is my point. Nobody wants to try ANYTHING. Just rabble rousing and people going into immediate defensive postures when these tragedies happen.

I dont mean to be flippant but people saying thoughts and prayers every time a tragedy happens is just as flippant if you were to ask me.


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## supersonicwaffle (May 9, 2019)

wurstpistole said:


> As a European, I fail to understand why weapons are still sold freely there.
> In my opinion it is of course the #1 reason for school shootings - without easy access to guns, no shootings, simple as that.
> Fuck your second amendment. That needs to be revoked.
> 
> ...



I will assume you're German because of your username. I used to feel the same way but these days I feel the conflict is much more complex and as Germans we don't really have a good grasp on it.
For example hunting seems to be much more ingrained in American culture. Population density is also an eighth of what it's here in Germany and we're often not considering how firearms are a necessity in really remote areas because we virtually have none.
You making an argument as a European is also quite misleading as countries like Finland are opposed to stricter EU wide gun regulation in a similar way, there's also division on the issue here much like rural vs urban areas in the US.

That the sheer amount and availability of firearms in civilian possession up until now would fuel the black market for decades is also a very real concern, which leads me to believe that any type of regulation would probably have to be objectively evaluated over multiple decades.
I don't want to argue for or against it as I'm well aware that I don't know enough about the issue. It's a messy situation.


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## JoeBloggs777 (May 9, 2019)

Don't Schools in the USA have a zero tolerance policy to bullying at school ?. many schools claim to have in the UK but still kids are bullied ending with some taking their own life.


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## Deleted User (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Err, first-world countries other than the US.  Didn't think that was unclear.


But the US isn't first-world


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## Grmmish (May 9, 2019)

Ok. I know I will be hated for saying this and I know it is not welcome and labalbla.... But I speak truthfully and freely:

I wish there were HD videos of this.... I just want to see some helpless little kids get their face shot up with shot guns and looking like swiss cheese....
If there was an HD game like Mortal Kombat X that just featured me running around killing helpless man, women, children men and children woman and it had ragdoll physics and stuff and I could blow off their heads and be covered in blood.....


Ok I am getting carried away here.... *AHEM* ... Hope the injured kids are ok so they can..... Live to see that game I envisioned come to life one day.


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## duwen (May 9, 2019)

Memoir said:


> Hmm... another person whose mental state was all but destroyed leading to a violent streak... Weird... WEIRD. Let's see how many of you blame the gun.... instead of the real issue.


I agree - the 'real' issue is almost always ignored in the aftermath of these tragic events... however, the 'real' issue affects school kids all over the world, yet it's only territories with lax gun control that have to endure school shootings on the scale seen in North America.


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## Subtle Demise (May 9, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> If you think that de-criminalization is going to happen anytime soon...I think you may end up waiting a very long time.
> Ultimately that is my point. Nobody wants to try ANYTHING. Just rabble rousing and people going into immediate defensive postures when these tragedies happen.
> 
> I dont mean to be flippant but people saying thoughts and prayers every time a tragedy happens is just as flippant if you were to ask me.


Honestly I've started wondering if it will take organizing a militia and declaring war against the DEA. They keep calling it a war in a vain attempt to distance it from the Prohibition era, might as well give them a real one, right? Decriminalization is already happening for more than just weed on a state-by-state basis. The feds will eventually want to start anither civil war over it, I'm sure, but that's what the Second Amendment is for.

Which circles around to the topic of school shootings. I thought that was why we started putting police in schools, to prevent those from happening. Where was the school officer(s) when this one went down? Probably hiding in the squad car like they did during Sandy Hook. What else would you expect from a profession where shooting a chihuahua out of fear for your life is justified?

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wurstpistole said:


> As a European, I fail to understand why weapons are still sold freely there.
> In my opinion it is of course the #1 reason for school shootings - without easy access to guns, no shootings, simple as that.
> Fuck your second amendment. That needs to be revoked.
> 
> ...


Yeah you all banned guns and now you get bombs and acid attacks and driving vans into crowds, among many other things that have the potential to rack up a higher body count than any gun ever could. Hell, the UK has all but banned all knives, and that isn't ending violence either. How far are you willing to take this? Put everyone in a stasis chamber like in The Matrix so we can't kill each other with our bare hands?


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## supersonicwaffle (May 9, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> Yeah you all banned guns and now you get bombs and acid attacks and driving vans into crowds, among many other things that have the potential to rack up a higher body count than any gun ever could. Hell, the UK has all but banned all knives, and that isn't ending violence either. How far are you willing to take this? Put everyone in a stasis chamber like in The Matrix so we can't kill each other with our bare hands?



What kind of stupid ass argument is that? Are you saying that because you have liberal gun laws you have planes flying into buildings instead of vans driving into crowds?

We also haven’t banned guns. Most of the incidents of school shootings here in Germany happened with legally acquired guns.


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## Glyptofane (May 9, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> driving vans into crowds


Trucks of peace!


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## leon315 (May 9, 2019)

MURICANS fight Russia, China and every countries which refuses to join them, muricans shot muricans, muslims shot muricans, then blame Russia for cospiracy and blame China for dictatorship.

Meanwhile muricans look down their canadian cousins without realizing they have so much to learn from them: PEACE, HARMONY AND PROPER USE OF GUNS

They are really funny and so hypocrite thogh lul


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## Subtle Demise (May 9, 2019)

supersonicwaffle said:


> What kind of stupid ass argument is that? Are you saying that because you have liberal gun laws you have planes flying into buildings instead of vans driving into crowds?
> 
> We also haven’t banned guns. Most of the incidents of school shootings here in Germany happened with legally acquired guns.


I don't usually keep up with gun laws around the world, so forgive me for assuming they were completely banned. My argument still stands because even if they aren't banned, they are still limited, regulated, and probably even monitored and tracked to some degree. My point was that you can keep banning (or limiting in your country's case) the instruments, but you'll never end violence. Like I said before, there are plenty of ways to kill lots more people without a gun. Arson and homemade explosuves can be done with supplies from the local hardware store. Not to mention if someone managed to weaponize fentanyl, which is still easy and cheap to get from the Chinese black market


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

Gun-control advocates have been pushing for a ban on assault weapons for more than 25 years. A federal ban was in place between 1994 and 2004, but Congress declined to renew it after studies showed it had no crime-reducing impact.
 I am stunned as to why this keeps happening and it feels like a gut punch whenever another shooting does happen. Can't put my finger on it but it feels like there's more behind these shootings. 
 I don't really have an answer for how to stop it and I know people have mentioned we have police in our schools but I can tell you at least in our small town, although we have police, it is normally only one officer and no matter how good he is, he can't be everywhere at the same time.
 What if, similar to some larger schools, we implemented only one or 2 areas in each school where you must enter and at each entry point they have a guard with a scanner you must walk through to check for weapons? Also add more policemen and lock those schools down like a fortress.
Yes it won't stop other types of violence but maybe they could detect guns and knives.


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## Clydefrosch (May 9, 2019)

As long as you don't limit normal citizens access to guns, criminals will always have a giant pool of guns to acquire. 

But considering there's always a powerful and rich lobby working against that, I don't see criminals being priced out of gun access...


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## JaapDaniels (May 9, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> As long as you don't limit normal citizens access to guns, criminals will always have a giant pool of guns to acquire.
> 
> But considering there's always a powerful and rich lobby working against that, I don't see criminals being priced out of gun access...


maybe, but most shootouts are not real die hard criminals, just poor teens who can'tcommune, who are disapointed in thier enviroment, who're dumped, got bad grades or just bloodlust.
criminals like you describe are to damn aware they can't escape alive for too long when they organise a shootout.


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## DCG (May 9, 2019)

@Clydefrosch 
Criminals will always have acces to guns...


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## supersonicwaffle (May 9, 2019)

Subtle Demise said:


> I don't usually keep up with gun laws around the world, so forgive me for assuming they were completely banned. My argument still stands because even if they aren't banned, they are still limited, regulated, and probably even monitored and tracked to some degree. My point was that you can keep banning (or limiting in your country's case) the instruments, but you'll never end violence. Like I said before, there are plenty of ways to kill lots more people without a gun. Arson and homemade explosuves can be done with supplies from the local hardware store. Not to mention if someone managed to weaponize fentanyl, which is still easy and cheap to get from the Chinese black market



Of course you’re not going to stop someone who is as determined as a terrorist or school shooter but that’s not even half the story.

No one is even suggesting that violence can be „ended“ but it’s also fair to acknowledge that the murder rate in the US is more than five times the one of Germany.


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## Clydefrosch (May 9, 2019)

JaapDaniels said:


> maybe, but most shootouts are not real die hard criminals, just poor teens who can'tcommune, who are disapointed in thier enviroment, who're dumped, got bad grades or just bloodlust.
> criminals like you describe are to damn aware they can't escape alive for too long when they organise a shootout.



those teens also get their weapons from the same place a criminal would get them in most of the cases.
From some dumbass leaving it around accessibly.


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## JaapDaniels (May 9, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> those teens also get their weapons from the same place a criminal would get them in most of the cases.
> From some dumbass leaving it around accessibly.


nope most of them just buy them at the gun store.


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## darcangel (May 9, 2019)

I don't get school shootings
..
...
....
Guess it's for a younger audience


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## Clydefrosch (May 9, 2019)

supersonicwaffle said:


> Of course you’re not going to stop someone who is as determined as a terrorist or school shooter but that’s not even half the story.
> 
> No one is even suggesting that violence can be „ended“ but it’s also fair to acknowledge that the murder rate in the US is more than five times the one of Germany.



And to put that into context, us population is just a bit more than three times as high as germanies.

also, our cops don't even kill a fraction of the people theirs do, because ours, despite a weapon owning rate of about 30% of all adults, don't think that every movement anyone makes at any time is 'reaching for a gun'


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## supersonicwaffle (May 9, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> And to put that into context, us population is just a bit more than three times as high as germanies.



Which is completely irrelevant, rates are per capita.


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## Kioku_Dreams (May 9, 2019)

duwen said:


> I agree - the 'real' issue is almost always ignored in the aftermath of these tragic events... however, the 'real' issue affects school kids all over the world, yet it's only territories with lax gun control that have to endure school shootings on the scale seen in North America.


Unfortunately, this is true. My overall stance has changed within the past year or so... There needs to be better gun laws in place, but something pushes these people to do such terrible things..


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## kumikochan (May 9, 2019)

Clydefrosch said:


> And to put that into context, us population is just a bit more than three times as high as germanies.
> 
> also, our cops don't even kill a fraction of the people theirs do, because ours, despite a weapon owning rate of about 30% of all adults, don't think that every movement anyone makes at any time is 'reaching for a gun'


edit : nvrm this comment lol i misread, sorry. Anyway i know the gun laws aren't gonna change soon or at all but it should be changed how you can aquire one. Maybe also go to school to get some sort of degree that makes it so that you can only buy or own when wheb you do have that certain degree


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## notimp (May 9, 2019)

Maybe I interject.

Those people are neglected, stipped of any opportunities, usually singled out, devoid of attention, maybe selfcentered, and suffering from an allure of grandiosity, but thats just one factor.

Their mind (subconscious) then looks for a way out. (We are talking severe mental health stuff here.) So they are drawn to power fantasies.

Guns. Make people feel powerful. Just touching one, does (apparently  ).

Then the entire cultural stuff america has prepped up around gun ownership and soldier heroes comes in, and also makes some of the difference.

(My understanding concerning that stuff is, that those are necessary myths within your society to deal with or integrate the part of your society, thats out in the world fighting almost neverending battles. Through coping with that over years, your society is structured a little differently, than that of other nations. (If you tell someone just returning from a war to check their weapon at the counter and then play happy family life, shortly thereafter - it usually doesnt work out so well, so you have groups and organisations that take this personality and the weapons they are accustom to - and form little subs societies, that slowly guide the transition into a more civil life.. Something along those lines. Weapon culture is more of a thing in america than in other developed parts of the world, partly because of it - in my opinion.))

Then you've maybe come to realize, that the potential shooter jumps another gap, where the anger he has stored up gets projected towards the people that "did him wrong", or that have the opportunities he'd liked to have. And then he jumps another step, where he acts on it.

None of this develops "silently" - there are warning singns all over the place. People around them are ignoring them.

The motivation then culminates into the following. "No way out" thinking. Powerwish. Anger projected towards peers. Feels power in the form of handling weapons. Has a societal image of death near or related to glory (that warped in their minds). And knows, that they will be important for that day, and maybe that week. Also - punishing the people that hurt them. When the shooting begins, they probably get into a blood frency I dont know - I don't deal with military psychology, I just assume, thats why they pick out victims randomly after the first few.

Now you probably have a decent understanding of whats causing it. Does it help you directly? I'm not sure.

Reducing the numbers of automated weapons around reduces the number of victims. Thats a first step.


edit: If its racially motivated, the anger projects towards an "enemy" group. The cause is not relevant at that point. Its - something.


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

notimp said:


> Maybe I interject.
> 
> Those people are neglected, stipped of any opportunities, usually singled out, devoid of attention, maybe selfcentered, and suffering from an allure of grandiosity, but thats just one factor.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind, I'm not in favor of gun confiscation but some of your observations are interesting. 
Do you know where gun culture really ramped up? Not it's roots in America but where it really became cool? First, in reference to the roots of the gun culture, this nation was liberated, won and founded with guns. After America won her independence from England, guns were still vitaly important. The land was so harsh and so untamed that you needed those firearms almost constantly. It was a time when there was no electricity, no running water and no ready made food. Every man old enough to use a gun, had to use it to kill food to feed his family. Also, there were the natives. That is too deep of a topic to cover here, but every man of fighting age found his gun a necessity to defend his very life and those of his family. They could not just call the police in those days. 
 Now, as to the time when guns became the object of every starry eyed boy and a few girls too. Was, after our fighting men had helped to assure world peace in the wake of world wars one and two, after they returned, they were national heroes and every young man wanted to be like them. Later, when television programming began, there were shows that further glorified the US GI and also the cowboy shows and movies because in that age, that was what the American public wanted to see. 
 As time has progressed, television programming has grown steadily more violent, and movies, not to mention games. So it makes sense in a way that, without proper guidance, if you allow television or games to raise your children, this is one possible outcome.


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## kumikochan (May 9, 2019)

zomborg said:


> Keep in mind, I'm not in favor of gun confiscation but some of your observations are interesting.
> Do you know where gun culture really ramped up? Not it's roots in America but where it really became cool? First, in reference to the roots of the gun culture, this nation was liberated, won and founded with guns. After America won her independence from England, guns were still vitaly important. The land was so harsh and so untamed that you needed those firearms almost constantly. It was a time when there was no electricity, no running water and no ready made food. Every man old enough to use a gun, had to use it to kill food to feed his family. Also, there were the natives. That is too deep of a topic to cover here, but every man of fighting age found his gun a necessity to defend his very life and those of his family. They could not just call the police in those days.
> Now, as to the time when guns became the object of every starry eyed boy and a few girls too. Was, after our fighting men had helped to assure world peace in the wake of world wars one and two, after they returned, they were national heroes and every young man wanted to be like them. Later, when television programming began, there were shows that further glorified the US GI and also the cowboy shows and movies because in that age, that was what the American public wanted to see.
> As time has progressed, television programming has grown steadily more violent, and movies, not to mention games. So it makes sense in a way that, without proper guidance, if you allow television or games to raise your children, this is one possible outcome.


Already millions of research has been donr and always has the same outcome. Games and movies don't cause people to do attrocities so i really don't know why you would even bring that up. Research has actually proven that games make people less violent since they work out their rage and so forth in their games so what you're saying is 100 percent false


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> Already millions of research has been donr and always has the same outcome. Games and movies don't cause people to do attrocities so i really don't know why you would even bring that up. Research has actually proven that games make people less violent since they work out their rage and so forth in their games so what you're saying is 100 percent false


From my previous post, this quote:
"So it makes sense in a way that, *without proper guidance*, if you allow television or games to raise your children, *this is one possible outcome" *


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## kumikochan (May 9, 2019)

zomborg said:


> From my previous post, this quote:
> "So it makes sense in a way that, *without proper guidance*, if you allow television or games to raise your children, *this is one possible outcome" *


How so ? There hasn't been a single case where people became agressive and disturbed because of that. No just no


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## cots (May 9, 2019)

It seems that the Liberal policies in Colorado of promoting mental illness (pushing the trans movement on children) and legalizing drugs is really working out well for them. Best of luck when these kids start using mushrooms!


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## notimp (May 9, 2019)

Games and Movies and violence.

All the meta studies that I've read show, that there is an effect, but that its only temporary (goes away within the hour (at max)).

So thats the "being pumped after leaving a movie" or "being aggravated after a specific game over" part. Thats all that was measured. 

There might still be long term effects, but those are almost impossible to measure. 

Also - other countries, also into videogames, dont have those numbers.

The reason videogames pop up in the media, is politicians and media outlets searching for "simple solutions".

People are after politicians ("You do nothing"), politician looks for scapegoat, some parent tells them its videogames - those have not a huge political lobby, so videogames it is...  (Look at those graphic images!)

Media also likes simple here is whats causing it stories, and videogames are their direct competition, and politicians agree, so videogames it is.. 

That all originates with parents btw. Parents hate stuff their kids are into and they dont understand. They think it must be evil.  Be it books, or certain kinds of music, or snapchat...


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

cots said:


> It seems that the Liberal policies in Colorado of promoting mental illness (pushing the trans movement on children) and legalizing drugs is really working out well for them. Best of luck when these kids start using mushrooms!


This is just as stupid as blaming video games as the cause, I hope you realize.  Nobody's "pushing" transgenderism on anybody in Colorado, that's dumb.  We simply aren't bigoted against trans individuals like the South.

Because we're centrally located, we get crazies moving here from every part of the country.  You can imagine that the ones from Florida are bad enough on their own.


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## notimp (May 9, 2019)

cots said:


> It seems that the Liberal policies in Colorado of promoting mental illness (pushing the trans movement on children) and legalizing drugs is really working out well for them. Best of luck when these kids start using mushrooms!


You are mentally deranged.

Pushing the trans movement onto children. Are you high? By what showing imagery that its at least accepted, but still a bit... off kilter?

Also drugs arent drugs arent drugs. Did they take cannabis or alcohol? (Havent heard the news reports.) Those can temporarily induce psychosis in people, other medical drugs shouldnt. I mean, with the US medical system who knows, you've literally got people pushing heroin derivates via prescription to a mass population. For profit. Legally.

Just in short, there is a way to handle the "drug" issue, without shouting that all drugs themselves are the source of all evil. (And the argument is actually more varied, than with guns, because there are different drugs, doing different things. So what drugs where they on?)


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> How so ? There hasn't been a single case where people became agressive and disturbed because of that. No just no


My meaning is, you can allow your children to play violent games and watch violent programming, IF it is in moderation and if it is mixed with guidance and common sense. A well rounded young person who has many experiences and varied interests vs one whom the parent never has time for and never makes their child a priority or even a significant part of their life, never invests the time to guide them in how life works, but instead, let's telly and games mentor their child. Then gun violence is a significant possible result.


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## cots (May 9, 2019)

zomborg said:


> Keep in mind, I'm not in favor of gun confiscation but some of your observations are interesting.



Guns are made to kill. I have no problem with this.

What I have a problem with is morons using guns. The thing is that if you take the guns away the morons will still find something to use to kill with. I mean, before we had guns what did people use? In Europe they have a "knife" murder problem. What's next, take away knives?

There's a lot of blame to go around. 

I admit that guns are partly to blame, but the percentage of blame is so minute compared to things like irresponsible parenting, exposure to extreme forms of media, lack of faith, idealistics that result in "triggered" people who can't control their own emotions, etc ... There are a lot of things that contribute to mentally unstable people, but you just can't go around blaming an intimidate object for something as complex as "why did the transititiong teenager go on a shooting spree"?

Clearly Liberal policies hold a really big percentage when it comes to figuring out "why" this happened. They encourage violence by teaching our kids the wrong ways to deal with being bullied, they encourage people who don't fall under their own clinical exemptions list to transition based solely on "how they feel" and not some underlying medical condition (which I remind you is very rare to begin with), they encourage hate and bigotry and allow it to happen as long as it's against someone else who doesn't share their own "only valid point of view", they teach people that science is the only logical and valid replacement for Religious Beliefs and in Colorado they encourage the use of addicting substances (nicotine, alcohol, marijuana and mushrooms) that have a higher potential for misuse and abuse (especially among children who do not understand addiction, but unfortunately are going to find out the hard way). Liberals policies also take aim at the traditional family unit which has in the past, in most cases, produced valued citizens that want to and do help
society.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> Just in short, there is a way to handle the "drug" issue, without shouting that all drugs themselves are the source of all evil. (And the argument is actually more varied, than with guns, because there are different drugs, doing different things. So what drugs where they on?)



Drugs like marijuana, when used in a controlled environment in small doses which are regulated can benefit a person. I don't argue this. However, when you are abusing a substance which is known to induce psychosis and lead to other permanent mental disorders and this abuse is being done by a child you're only asking for trouble. Have you ever seen anyone on a "bad" mushroom trip? If not, you'll be soon(tm) be seeing them if you're a citizen of Denver, Co. (In which case if I ever visit Denver I'll make sure I'm strapped to take care of any nut job that tries to physically assault me).

Yeah, it's not clear which drugs these kids were taking, but Marijuana is a likely culprit since it's been legalized in Colorado. I also don't doubt they were probably smoking more than just weed.


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## kumikochan (May 9, 2019)

zomborg said:


> My meaning is, you can allow your children to play violent games and watch violent programming, IF it is in moderation and if it is mixed with guidance and common sense. A well rounded young person who has many experiences and varied interests vs one whom the parent never has time for and never makes their child a priority or even a significant part of their life, never invests the time to guide them in how life works, but instead, let's telly and games mentor their child. Then gun violence is a significant possible result.


Then it is because of a developmental disorder and not because of tv. Lack of care causes developmental disorders and is the cause of what.you're saying and again not tv or anything else.


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

I whole heartedly agree with your statement. One area that the liberal mindset permeates a young adults mind is at institutions of higher learning. They are no longer teaching them how to think but instead they are teaching them what to think and instead of reasoning problems out for themselves, they are being taught that how they feel is more important.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

cots said:


> Drugs like marijuana, when used in a controlled environment in small doses which are regulated can benefit a person. I don't argue this. However, when you are abusing a substance which is known to induce psychosis and lead to other permanent mental disorders and this abuse is being done by a child you're only asking for trouble.


You know these drugs aren't being legalized for ages 0 and up, right?  And that decriminalization doesn't mean shrooms are going to be sold in stores?  Just checking.



cots said:


> Yeah, it's not clear which drugs these kids were taking, but Marijuana is a likely culprit since it's been legalized in Colorado. I also don't doubt they were probably smoking more than just weed.


You gotta be the only person left in this country that believes Reefer Madness was an objectively true documentary.  

This type of exaggeration and hysteria is the reason anti-drug programs like DARE failed.  They weren't truthful about the effects and potential dangers of recreational drugs.


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## cots (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> You know these drugs aren't being legalized for ages 0 and up, right?  And that decriminalization doesn't mean shrooms are going to be sold in stores?  Just checking.
> 
> You gotta be the only person left in this country that believes Reefer Madness was an objectively true documentary.



No, but by decriminalizing mushrooms it sends a message to the public that they are "okay" to consume which is going to lead to more abuse. Kids emulate older adults. The decision will end up with more children than before tripping on shrooms.

I used to smoke weed, but I abused it and I learned first hand on how addiction worked. I wish there was some way to convey to these kids that addictions aren't a good thing so they wouldn't have to experience it first hand. I don't think sending them the message that it's okay to do addicting substances is the right answer.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



zomborg said:


> I whole heartedly agree with your statement. One area that the liberal mindset permeates a young adults mind is at institutions of higher learning. They are no longer teaching them how to think but instead they are teaching them what to think and instead of reasoning problems out for themselves, they are being taught that how they feel is more important.



Yeah, "How you feel" is important, but it shouldn't considered the main factor in how you act. I mean, maybe you're not hungry so you shouldn't eat for 10 days due to this? Or you're having problems with transitioning and abusing drugs so you "feel" bad and it's okay to go shooting up a school?


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> Then it is because of a developmental disorder and not because of tv. Lack of care causes developmental disorders and is the cause of what.you're saying and again not tv or anything else.


Ummm, you could call it that. Developmental disorder is what is has been changed to in modern psychological dialect but basically it's called the parents didn't do their job.
By the way, I have friends who raised their children with zero exposure to modern forms of entertainment. No TV and no games. They let them watch limited programming from the past which was much less violent and they only played old nes and pc games. 
Their children are some of the most rational, level headed, courteous young people I've ever met.


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## cots (May 9, 2019)

zomborg said:


> Ummm, you could call it that. Developmental disorder is what is has been changed to in modern psychological dialect but basically it's called the parents didn't do their job.
> By the way, I have friends who raised their children with zero exposure to modern forms of entertainment. No TV and no games. They let them watch limited programming from the past which was much less violent and they only played old nes and pc games.
> Their children are some of the most rational, level headed, courteous young people I've ever met.



There is a reason why there are warning labels and age ratings on movies, music and video games. They do have a negative impact on people and mostly on younger audiences. If you think letting your child play violent video games that are rated M all day long is good because you can have more time to post selfies on facebook you're a really shitty parent.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

cots said:


> No, but by decriminalizing mushrooms it sends a message to the public that they are "okay" to consume which is going to lead to more abuse. Kids emulate older adults. The decision will end up with more children than before tripping on shrooms


Not true, teenage use of marijuana declined in Colorado after its legalization.  Not to mention that, following this logic, every pre-teen would already be an alcoholic and addicted to cigarettes.



cots said:


> I used to smoke weed, but I abused it (most likely because it's addicting) and after some years the effects weren't positive and eventually I was able to kick the addiction. I currently consume CBD and I'd still smoke weed (THC) if it didn't experience negative effects. Although, I learned first hand on how addiction worked. I wish there was some way to convey to these kids that addictions aren't a good thing so they wouldn't have to experience it first hand. I don't think sending them the message that it's okay to do addicting substances is the right answer.


The message is, and since legalization, always has been "wait until you're 21."  You seem to think dispensaries are handing out free samples to kids or something.  The reality is that marijuana is now more heavily regulated, and there are fewer dealers on the streets that kids can illegally obtain weed from.

Again, not that this has anything to do with school shootings.  More than half the country has weed legal in recreational or medicinal form now.


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## cots (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Not true, teenage use of marijuana declined in Colorado after its legalization.  Not to mention that, following this logic, every pre-teen would already be an alcoholic and addicted to cigarettes. The message is, and since legalization, always has been "wait until you're 21."  You seem to think dispensaries are handing out free samples to kids or something.  The reality is that marijuana is now more heavily regulated, and there are fewer dealers on the streets that kids can illegally obtain weed from.



Not many people listen to that message as we have been given an example with this situation. Free samples? Plenty of drug users encourage and get younger kids hooked on them - that's how it works. Sort of like how Liberals start grooming children starting in Elementary school.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

cots said:


> Not many people listen to that message as we have been given an example with this situation.


I just gave you a link that proves you wrong.  There's less teenage use after legalization than there was before it.



cots said:


> Free samples? Plenty of drug users encourage and get younger kids hooked on them - that's how it works.


Sounds like another DARE line.  As you grow up you realize nobody is giving out drugs for free.  You might as well be saying there are people out there handing out free money.

As I said, with marijuana legal, cheap, and more heavily regulated, the illegal dealers have to focus more on other drugs.  Even opioid use declined after marijuana legalization, however, and Colorado is at half the national average for testing positive for opioids.



cots said:


> Sort of like how Liberals start grooming children starting in Elementary school.


I don't know why you tried to slip this bullshit in, it's not remotely related to the subject you were discussing previously.  Liberal parents raise children in a liberal environment, and vice versa for conservative parents.  No pre-school is teaching your children advanced political theory, Jesus.


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## ChokingVictim87 (May 9, 2019)

Far left shooter, one of whom is trans-watch this get memory holed and the MSM ignore it as it doesn't fit their Anti Trump narrative


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## cots (May 9, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I just gave you a link that proves you wrong.



It seems you haven't spent many years actually dealing with the illegal drug trade. 

... and I totally forgot I'm arguing with someone who never can clearly state his stance on anything and is never wrong. So I'm done with you (and should make a mental note that talking with my dead cat is more productive).

It's nice outside. Not going to sit on my ass, eat a lot of crappy food and blame my obesity on some rare generic disorder called "fat lazy bitch syndrome".

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ChokingVictim87 said:


> Far left shooter, one of whom is trans-watch this get memory holed and the MSM ignore it as it doesn't fit their Anti Trump narrative



The Liberal "news" is just entertainment for ratings meant to control others and get them (the Liberal leaders) more power (and your money). They rarely post about anything that doesn't attune to their agenda (which is proof by itself that they are trying to take over this country and turn us into a modern age Socialist shit-topia). It basically breaks down to this - they want money and power and don't care what they have to do or say to get it.


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

cots said:


> It seems you haven't spent many years actually dealing with the illegal drug trade.


I've interacted with my share of drug dealers, not that it has anything to do with the statistics you're ignoring.



cots said:


> ... and I totally forgot I'm arguing with someone who never can clearly state his stance on anything and is never wrong.


I've reinforced all my points with evidence.  God forbid you ever do the same, right?  Maybe I should just start throwing out random reactionary bullshit like you instead?

Here, let me give it a shot.  "CONSERVATIVES ARE BRAINWASHING YOUR CHILDREN IN CHURCH AND GIVING THEM HEROIN!  THE CAUSE OF ALL MASS SHOOTINGS IS TOOTHPASTE!"


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## Delerious (May 9, 2019)

Another day, another school shooting.

Just another day in Russia the US!


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## Xzi (May 9, 2019)

ChokingVictim87 said:


> Far left shooter, one of whom is trans-watch this get memory holed and the MSM ignore it as it doesn't fit their Anti Trump narrative


> Literally every mainstream outlet covers the shooting.

> "MSM is ignoring it."

Every single time.  It's become a cliche at this point.

Yes, we'll forget about it as soon as the next mass shooting occurs.  That has nothing to do with media, and everything to do with the fact that much of America has the memory/attention span of a goldfish.  Too many people simply tune it out altogether at this point.


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## lukands (May 9, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> How can there be so many school shootings in the USA?



Lots of schools and easy access to guns.


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## zomborg (May 9, 2019)

Delete double post


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## notimp (May 10, 2019)

You guys collectively are pretty horrible, do you know that? No, no - its my single aspect theory that causing it, no its mine - no I have a friend, who raised his kids without exposure to the real world, and they turned out so cortious... No - there is a reason, why there are labels on movies, because they are bad for them children...

I wouldnt want to get caught with you on a long trainride, If I had do listen to stuff like that..

The only thing we pretty much agree on, is that its an issue, if folks get raised just to follow whatever the dogma of the day is, an not to apply critical thinking. 

Here is my perspective on a few things here.

Limiting you childrens access to media is something you can do. Should it be hyped to the heavens as the perfect mode of parenting, because you are preventing them from all the negative impulses of modern media (what?) probably not. If your kids turn out level headed, great - if they turn out asocial, because you hawk over them going to the cinema with their friends, while they are never able to talk about favourite TV shows with their peers, and have a culture shock later in life, when they expose themselves to some of the stuff - you failed at parenting. You know that, right? But oh his kids where so level headed.

There are ratings on products for a reason. Ha - yeah. Lets pull those two arguments together and let me present you with a story to set both of them in context.

I actually set through a presentation of a ratings board once, and through a lecture of a TV censor at another time, that explained why and to what extent they censor motherflipping scenes, in motherflipping movies on TV.

Here is the jinx of it. The people that got drawn to the ratings board presentation, where all in all - entirely horrible morons. That where of the impression, that exposure of their children to violent or 'horror' content would ruin their poor existences. I raised my hand on the panel to ask how censors would react to ironic content in something like zombie games (I believe Dead Rising had come out right around that time), which can be rather camp and self reflective, and the answer pretty much was, that they couldnt account for that - within their set of rules. All the other questions, and I kid you not - where all about how to better save them youths from all those violence out there. In them action movies, and videogames. So I got a pretty good understanding of what "part" of humanity drives those ratings and censorship attempts. Again, people who might be somewhat detached, sheltered, and for what ever reason have made their single point of focus to prevent others from experiencing certain aspects of humanity. I talked to the actual censors, afterwards, they were pretty ok, actually - probably because they saw all kinds of movies - uncut, for living..  We joked around a bunch.

Now am I a splatter and horror fanatic? Far from it. I saw horror flicks in cinema, when I was far too young for them (with the disgression if the cinema clerks that where on ticket duty at the time), I probably watched Event Horizon while staring at the outer edge of the cinema screen half of the time, just to calm me down, I saw Scream when it was fresh at the cinemas (enjoyed it), and I saw Takashi Miike flicks, just for the experience, later on in life. Those I wouldnt even recommend for you to look up if you are near the mindset of the save our children through censorship crowd. All those were experiences. All those didnt warp my mind to where I... Finish the rest of the sentence on your own. 


Parenting. Yes, yes - everything is bad parenting in your minds. And with just the proper education, and with just the proper parenting style - this would never happen to your children. Good. As long as you pay attention to them you are probably right. What we havent talked about is the school environment. Take an intellectually gifted person, stick them into a class with a bunch of morons, and you've got yourself a drifter. Take a socially challenged person, and stick them in an environment where chocks rule the earth, and you've got yourself someone with a target on their back, take a child of a helicopter style parent - and expose them to an active youth scene - and they may become shellshocked. Then add all kinds of moronic societal pressures of what defines a "proper" child of that age, and you get self doubts, segmentation by rank, social outcasts, mobbing, ... All of that to a larger degree in the american school system - at at least from what your movies like to represent (liberal hollywood, I know..) is dysfunctional as can be. Yes, teach your child to become a cheerleader, and they will bring it far in life.

I dont know - has anyone of you ever seen "The Breakfast Club" (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1). I really liked that movie. And not once have I sat through watching it and thought to myself - well, how well adjusted could those children have been, if only they got proper parenting.

So that tagline - is for morons.

The threshhold, not to produce a psychotic mass murderer of a child is so low - that any properly adjusted family or friends circle as an environment will do. Dont fancy yourself and your "proper" children education methods, just for fucks sake - pay attention to your child - and you should be ok.

Now - in the case of the person with a different body image, than what they were born with. That stuff might get more complicated, because in that case its not only environment. In other school shooter cases it might not be as well. I dont know where to take this one. Maybe - if your child has special needs, dont neglect them either. I dont know.

Cannabis, isnt known to induce violent psychosis very often either, alcohol is. Apart from that I have no opinion on that matter, I'm not a pro legalization advocate. (De-criminalization, sure - if your bar is "we have the biggest prison population in the world by a factor of 3-4x" again, you are failing as a society.)

Trump in this thread? Why. Does that guy even follow you to your sleep by now? Or do you get the narratives drilled in by Fox and friends to an extend, where you think that talking about your president in each and every thread makes it more political? (Even your late night hosts seem to have that problem..  ) Have some decency. Leave some of the agitation potential untouched.

Also - just to get this straight - if you want to shelter your children while they are growing up, by all means do. But if they seek out other experiences by themselves, dont become what I see you becoming in my minds eye - because you fashion yourself a perfect parent. You have a strong impact/grasp over the first 12 years of your childs upbringing. You dont have so much over the second 12. The art in my mind, much rather is to find a balance there - than to fancy yourself the perfect parent. Chances are that you make this up for show on online forums anyhow.

I dont believe a word of it. 
Also - maybe no automatic rifles in the living room.


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## kumikochan (May 10, 2019)

zomborg said:


> Ummm, you could call it that. Developmental disorder is what is has been changed to in modern psychological dialect but basically it's called the parents didn't do their job.
> By the way, I have friends who raised their children with zero exposure to modern forms of entertainment. No TV and no games. They let them watch limited programming from the past which was much less violent and they only played old nes and pc games.
> Their children are some of the most rational, level headed, courteous young people I've ever met.


Still tv or games.don't make children school shooters. So you gonna keep denying all that research done by professionals with the same outcome over and over. Not watching tv a lot or games isn't the cause of that good behaviour you described but is getting constant care and education from your parents vs a lack off. That's what it's about and not what you're describing. If a kid gets the same care and still can watch a lot of tv the result isn't going to be so much different


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## zomborg (May 10, 2019)

notimp said:


> You guys collectively are pretty horrible, do you know that? No, no - its my single aspect theory that causing it, not its mine - no I have a friend, who raised his kids without exposure to the real world, and they turned out so cortious... No - there is a reason, why there are labels on movies, because they are bad for them children...
> 
> I wouldnt want to get cought with you on a long trainride, If I had do listen to stuff like that..
> 
> ...


You have some interesting theories. I do not agree with them but still they are interesting. 
So let's use your methodology in a probable scenario. Let's say child A is allowed to be exposed to whatever influences the world has to offer. She is allowed to drink at a very early age. She is allowed to smoke cigarettes at a young age. She is allowed to use profanity when she wants. She is allowed to watch adult themed movies (Rated R, X, whatever) as a child and she is allowed to dress provocatively while still a youth. Because she exhibits this type of behavior and lives this lifestyle, child A's circle of friends are of the same caliber.
 On the other hand, let's take a look at child B. Child B is denied the opportunity to immerse herself in those same worldly pleasures. No drinking, smoking, adult movies, provocative attire or profanity. Instead she is shielded from those things until her adolescent mind is mature enough to handle them. But she does get to go to the theatre and watch movies carefully screened by her parents with friends who are similarly shielded. She gets to go skating, hiking, biking and have friends over for slumber parties and movie nights. She dresses conservatively and is taught to be respectful to her elders and kind and polite to friends, teachers, etc. She is taught to use polite, respectful words in her language.
 So which one of these children, A or B, is the most likely to end up becoming pregnant at a young age and not married? Which one is most likely to be caught drinking and driving? Which one is most likely to become addicted to drugs? Which one is most likely to end up in trouble at school, in trouble with authorities or even in jail?
 Hmmmm, I wonder.


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## cots (May 10, 2019)

notimp said:


> You guys collectively are pretty horrible, do you know that?



For decades people had rifles sitting in unlocked gun cases and we didn't see their kids going to school to kill other students because they were being bullied due to the fact that they are trying to become another sex, were stoned to shit and couldn't deal with it. I suppose now a days it would be wise if you didn't want your guns used in such a manner to lock them up from the children you and society are failing or totally remove the guns and they will simply use whatever other means they have access to.

I can't imagine the stress, frustration and other mixed up emotional problems the trans person was experiencing and in his (or her?) mind what he-she did was probably justified. It's sort of like natural selection at work. The weak produce offspring that are even more weak and kill the other weak ones and what do you have left? Less weak people? It's kind of a harsh thing to say due to the loss of life, but the nature of all life is to die and if you're a Liberal this freedom is freely taken away from babies before they even get a chance to open their eyes and see their mother (not to mention being sucked out of said mother and being processed into small bits). So don't go pulling the "life is precious crap" - at least I have the balls not to hide behind this and say something.

Is watching an single R rated film a guarantee that you child is going to become a murderer? No, but if you expose them these sorts of things that desentualization them to the violence, cursing and other things that the movie ratings warns the parents of isn't going to help the situation and there is clear evidence that media does harm a child's development hence the creation of the rating systems. It's not the fault of the creators that the parents of these children chose to ignore the ratings. Did you think I was joking when I mentioned mothers that sit their children down in front of a video game and let them play for 8 hours straight so they can update their status of Facebook and did you think this is happening to 5 year olds? It is and more than it should be.

Cannabis, specifically the chemical compound THC is known to cause episodes of psychosis and I admit that it doesn't cause them as often as alcohol does, but it is an addicting substance with a high rate of abuse and you do realize that the entire "legalization" effort and the business model behind it is to get people "hooked" for return business. Don't kid yourself about the negative impact the misuse and abuse of the drug has on the person using it. It's not as addictive as opium based products (or chemicals similar to them) as it won't kill you to suddenly quit smoking it, but it does have a lot of negative drawbacks (like being worse on the lungs than tobacco, being addictive, costing a lot of money and the negative mental health consequences when abused).

People with Trump Derangement Syndrome are the same as the people that had Obama Derangement Syndrome - they are fed so much bullshit fake gossip news from their so called "news" outlets (who are entertainers with an agenda hiding behind the press) that they can't think for themselves. They lost and can't get over it. I dealt with this crap for 8 years after Obama won and now the "other" side is doing the exact same thing that they accused the mislabeled racist oppressors they hate so much (you know, their love, peace and tolerance at work). I'm not sure what the point is of bringing up someone that had nothing to do with the school shooting does exactly, but as you said these idiots see Trump in their sleep.

If you ignore your child, expect the schools to raise them, don't even pay for their lunches, but walk around with an iphone and Nike sneakers and are more worried about your "online status" then you are a big part of the problem.


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## kumikochan (May 10, 2019)

cots said:


> For decades people had rifles sitting in unlocked gun cases and we didn't see their kids going to school to kill other students because they were being bullied due to the fact that they are trying to become another sex, were stoned to shit and couldn't deal with it. I suppose now a days it would be wise if you didn't want your guns used in such a manner to lock them up from the children you and society are failing or totally remove the guns and they will simply use whatever other means they have access to.
> 
> I can't imagine the stress, frustration and other mixed up emotional problems the trans person was experiencing and in his (or her?) mind what he-she did was probably justified. It's sort of like natural selection at work. The weak produce offspring that are even more weak and kill the other weak ones and what do you have left? Less weak people? It's kind of a harsh thing to say due to the loss of life, but the nature of all life is to die and if you're a Liberal this freedom is freely taken away from babies before they even get a chance to open their eyes and see their mother (not to mention being sucked out of said mother and being processed into small bits). So don't go pulling the "life is precious crap" - at least I have the balls not to hide behind this and say something.
> 
> ...


The M rating came about because of angry parents. Not by psychologists saying it is bad for you but solely by angry parents. Also decades ago it also happened. News wasn't just as widespread as it is now and it didn't travel around that much making also statistics not accurate when looking from year to year base


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## cots (May 10, 2019)

zomborg said:


> You have some interesting theories. I do not agree with them but still they are interesting.
> So let's use your methodology in a probable scenario. Let's say child A is allowed to be exposed to whatever influences the world has to offer. She is allowed to drink at a very early age. She is allowed to smoke cigarettes at a young age. She is allowed to use profanity when she wants. She is allowed to watch adult themed movies (Rated R, X, whatever) as a child and she is allowed to dress provocatively while still a youth. Because she exhibits this type of behavior and lives this lifestyle, child A's circle of friends are of the same caliber.
> On the other hand, let's take a look at child B. Child B is denied the opportunity to immerse herself in those same worldly pleasures. No drinking, smoking, adult movies, provocative attire or profanity. Instead she is shielded from those things until her adolescent mind is mature enough to handle them. But she does get to go to the theatre and watch movies carefully screened by her parents with friends who are similarly shielded. She gets to go skating, hiking, biking and have friends over for slumber parties and movie nights. She dresses conservatively and is taught to be respectful to her elders and kind and polite to friends, teachers, etc. She is taught to use polite, respectful words in her language.
> So which one of these children, A or B, is the most likely to end up becoming pregnant at a young age and not married? Which one is most likely to be caught drinking and driving? Which one is most likely to become addicted to drugs? Which one is most likely to end up in trouble at school, in trouble with authorities or even in jail?
> Hmmmm, I wonder.



Yeah, the odds greatly favor your level headed example. Liberals will be quick to bring "but, in a few cases" as like they are all about defending the minority, but then ask them how they feel about the minority who voted for Trump and how that's an exception and you'll start to see the blantant bullshit they call a thought process. The odds are, in your example, that the person who was raised differently than the drinking, smoking, fucking, slut of a women will end up not doing those sorts of things.

Oh, I'm back  I went for a 22 mile bike ride. I would have gone for a longer one, but the trail ended. See, when the doctor told me that being overweight would kill me and told me I need to take 5 different pills a day due to problems caused by being a fat lazy idiot I chose to exercise and eat better - so no pills, diabetes almost in remission, less risk of a sudden heart attack or stroke and there are also a ton of other benefits I'm experiencing. I could have blamed being fat on all of the conditions that the doctor told me I had, but I decided to skip the bullshit sympathy clause and do something about it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



kumikochan said:


> The M rating came about because of angry parents. Not by psychologists saying it is bad for you but solely by angry parents. Also decades ago it also happened. News wasn't just as widespread as it is now and it didn't travel around that much making also statistics not accurate when looking from year to year base



Well, do what you want. You can sit your child down in front of sex, violence and profanity and allow them to "play games" with online predators all you want. Hey, they are your kids. I'm not going to tell you what to do with them, but I will tell you it's not a good idea and it's proven not to work out well.

I mean, I could also tell you that inserting a Nintendo 64 game cartridge into an stock/unmodified Atari 2600 isn't going to work and you'll never going to get the Nintendo 64 game to play, but I'm not going to stop you from doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results in the process. I'll just sit back and experience the emotions someone experiences when they see a helpless idiot do their thing (because it's all about "how you feel", right?)


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## Xzi (May 10, 2019)

cots said:


> Cannabis, specifically the chemical compound THC is known to cause episodes of psychosis and I admit that it doesn't cause them as often as alcohol does, but it is an addicting substance with a high rate of abuse and you do realize that the entire "legalization" effort and the business model behind it is to get people "hooked" for return business. Don't kid yourself about the negative impact the misuse and abuse of the drug has on the person using it. It's not as addictive as opium based products (or chemicals similar to them) as it won't kill you to suddenly quit smoking it, but it does have a lot of negative drawbacks (like being worse on the lungs than tobacco, being addictive, costing a lot of money and the negative mental health consequences when abused).


If cannabis was found in the bloodstream of nine out of ten mass shooters, do you think it ever would've been legalized to begin with?  The only thing you're very likely to kill after smoking a bowl is a bag of Cheetos.  There's a reason Nazis used meth pills as combat stimulants in WW2, and not weed.

I'm truly puzzled as to why you thought you needed to bring it into this conversation in the first place.

Edit: He must've put me on ignore, rofl.  Just another alt-right snowflake that can't handle any dissenting opinion.


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## kumikochan (May 10, 2019)

cots said:


> Yeah, the odds greatly favor your level headed example. Liberals will be quick to bring "but, in a few cases" as like they are all about defending the minority, but then ask them how they feel about the minority who voted for Trump and how that's an exception and you'll start to see the blantant bullshit they call a thought process. The odds are, in your example, that the person who was raised differently than the drinking, smoking, fucking, slut of a women will end up not doing those sorts of things.
> 
> Oh, I'm back  I went for a 22 mile bike ride. I would have gone for a longer one, but the trail ended. See, when the doctor told me that being overweight would kill me and told me I need to take 5 different pills a day due to problems caused by being a fat lazy idiot I chose to exercise and eat better - so no pills, diabetes almost in remission, less risk of a sudden heart attack or stroke and there are also a ton of other benefits I'm experiencing. I could have blamed being fat on all of the conditions that the doctor told me I had, but I decided to skip the bullshit sympathy clause and do something about it.
> 
> ...


If that would the case then all people in Belgium would be alcoholics, agressive and so forth seeing the drinking age is 16 but you can easily get drunk in a bar as a 12 year old and get cigarettes as easily from that age 2 and so forth. But ey guess by that logic we're all drunks, agressive and school shooters.


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## cots (May 10, 2019)

kumikochan said:


> If that would the case then all people in Belgium would be alcoholics, agressive and so forth seeing the drinking age is 16 but you can easily get drunk in a bar as a 12 year old and get cigarettes as easily from that age 2 and so forth. But ey guess by that logic we're all drunks, agressive and school shooters.



Well, most people I know at least use alcohol and are aggressive, but that doesn't guarantee you're going to shoot someone - it just doesn't help the situation and probably in your country the parents won't allow their kids to go the bars or buy smokes. You know, they are actually doing their job? That might have something to do with it.


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## kumikochan (May 10, 2019)

cots said:


> Well, most people I know at least use alcohol and are aggressive, but that doesn't guarantee you're going to shoot someone - it just doesn't help the situation and probably in your country the parents won't allow their kids to go the bars or buy smokes. You know, they are actually doing their job? That might have something to do with it.


actually they do exept the smoking part. Not a lot of people do smoke and everyone is quitting because the goverment jacking up prices. But the bars, parties thing they do. People have a more open minded mindset here. It's best to do everything at a younger age and be done with it at a younger age than to do everything at a later age. Most people stop consuming alcohol and going out completely around the age of 21-24 and solely focus on their future


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## VartioArtel (May 10, 2019)

y'know. I thought of something, simple but brilliant:

Take all the CURRENT guns, and melt 'em. Yes. Melt 'em. Give a voucher for up to 3 guns based on how many you gave up.

Then make new ones. These are chipped so that they can be tracked by local law enforcement, and won't operate without the chip. What does this mean? Well with the right systems, you could make it so when some dumbass walks close enough to a school with a chipped gun, it alerts the school. If the idiot keeps it in his glove compartment and drives by a school, then WTF is he doing bringing a gun like that so close to a school?

This would drastically make tracking crime easier. It would help prevent School shootings because excluding illegally obtained old guns, they would not be able to get close enough to cause mass havoc usually. And the NRA? Gets to sell guns at a huge price hike, making guns even LESS desirable as a 'hobby' because of the higher prices into making 'em.

And if anyone says "But my freedom" they can go suck it at this point, because there is no better alternative available other than "Let's maintain the status quo".

Edit: And removing these chips would probably cause them to send off a nice loud signal, allowing law enforcement to contact you about replacing your gun.

ACCOUNTABILITY MATTERS.


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## cots (May 10, 2019)

VartioArtel said:


> y'know. I thought of something, simple but brilliant:
> 
> Take all the CURRENT guns, and melt 'em. Yes. Melt 'em. Give a voucher for up to 3 guns based on how many you gave up.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a practical idea, except who controls access to the gun? If the Government controls if and when you can use a gun than there would be no point in owning a gun and it would be in violation of the second amendment which was made to protect us from the government. I find the loss of life acceptable from shootings that are influenced by a lot of other things than just access to a gun to maintain our freedom to protect ourselves. Bad things happen and there are bad people in this world. The difference is if/when they come for me I'm going to fight them, not ask them to wait for me to take out my cellphone so I can call 911 and then ask them to wait for the police to show up when I stand in a "safe space" before they shoot me and take all of my money. I honestly don't think the people who are against arming themselves have ever been in a situation where they had to defend themselves.


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## supersonicwaffle (May 10, 2019)

cots said:


> In Europe they have a "knife" murder problem. What's next, take away knives?



Oh please, the US has as much of a knife murder problem as Europe.
Roughly 13% of per capita murder victims in the US have been murdered with a knife (not even including other non gun related murder weapons like blunt objects).
The *total *per capita murder rate of the EU is roughly 19% of the US.


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## notimp (May 10, 2019)

To the argument, that there always were guns around.

Please remember, that statistically we are talking about an issue that maybe kills 3 times as many people in the US every year as beestings.

So we are constantly surfing on the verge of is this an issue at all - just based on numbers (But the americans made a heck of a deal out of 9/11, changing all our societies, .. ok I save myself the speech there..  ).

So you really are talking about isolated cases. But you are talking about them, because they are isolated cases of mass murder, in an environment, where most people would have maybe the strongest expectation of safety they can have (I give my children to those institutions).

So essentialy the Situation is a mindfuck on its own. Cat nip for  emotion junkies. But then actual mass murder. But also only in isolated cases - that kind of kept trending upwards.

On the macro level - maybe even doing nothing about it is ok. But no parent ever in that, or near that situation will ever agree to that. And you could do so much better - if the 'importance of guns' wasnt so essential in your societies. Presumably.

But then some of you still see weaponized resistance against collective political action as a viable means of politics - so you really have fractions there.

And yes, you've probably have it all but normalized at this point. That said, the NRA lost large amounts of contributor numbers (membership fees) and sponsor last year, so something is moving. But - you will always deal with a very motivated minority - thats against changing anything in that context (gunrights), because it restricts their supposed freedoms.

And if you go with Freud, the guns really are what make those people "man".  And if you go with military culture aftermath, its important, that that kind of "rough and tumble" also is allowed in certain segments of your culture - if you are playing military world police.

So maybe 300x the victim numbers of Canada really is the answer.

But then we are back that parents literally give their children out of their hands to be safe in those institutions.

One more thing the "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun" is completetly bogus. In principal, logically - its just... its not real. If push comes to shove the gun carrying teacher will probably cover behind a desk sucking on his pistol, and in all the 99.9% of other cases he will fancy himself a strong man with borrowed authority - which is exactly the wrong thing to teach children in their puberty. Maybe. Also, you have to count on misuse of that authority.

Its a tough issue, but its not going away, so eventually - something will probably change. Banning assault rifles (outside of fireing ranges f.e.) is probably a good thing to do. In case you are up against your own military, those dont help anyways (drones?), and no man really needs the ability to mow down a gaggle of humans (not even animals, they arent made for that), in 6 seconds flat.
If you are into that because of "power"... Well, I dont know what I can tell you.


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## DarthDub (May 10, 2019)

Mental Health Issues, that is all.


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## VartioArtel (May 10, 2019)

cots said:


> Sounds like a practical idea, except who controls access to the gun? If the Government controls if and when you can use a gun than there would be no point in owning a gun and it would be in violation of the second amendment which was made to protect us from the government. I find the loss of life acceptable from shootings that are influenced by a lot of other things than just access to a gun to maintain our freedom to protect ourselves. Bad things happen and there are bad people in this world. The difference is if/when they come for me I'm going to fight them, not ask them to wait for me to take out my cellphone so I can call 911 and then ask them to wait for the police to show up when I stand in a "safe space" before they shoot me and take all of my money. I honestly don't think the people who are against arming themselves have ever been in a situation where they had to defend themselves.



Government law, but maintained at a state level, would be the ideal solution. Basically put the government has no control, but does have the authority to hold states responsible for not properly managing their guns, similar to an amendment. States control how guns are managed per state (as I remember), but it's the 2nd amendment that dictates that guns must be legitimate.

Least, this is how I envision it.

(Tired so not replying to most of your post)


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## notimp (May 10, 2019)

DarthDub said:


> Mental Health Issues, that is all.


Nice words bro.

Now how do you want to treat them, and how do you want to prevent them acting out in that way?

You have two options. Like the greek, that included them in their daily lives gave them respect and honored them, or like the english, who locked them away, never to see the light of day again.
(read Michel Foucault)
edit: I have to state, that we are talking -before- they do something like going on a shooting spree or rampage.

This is the other part we havent looked at. Whenever we say "how can this be prevented", we (left leaning folks) talk about socialization efforts essentially.

All that your thought process is circling around is family upbringing, and then prouding yourselves over not offering your children a broken home experience. Again, thats pretty low bar. I dont know, why you folks even like to talk about is so much. Again - its probably a "4/5 stars, I bought it, so mine is better" thing - that has really not that much to do with the issue at hand.  (Whose is the better parenting method - usually doesnt play that much of a role in who becomes the next mass shooter.)

Again, look at other countries, do you think, that your parenting methods on average are 300x worse?

In any case - that behavior triggering, is always a combination of nature, and nurture (upbringing), which I tried to offer you a bit of a deeper look into (what are the motivators, what are the logic jumps, how does the internal logic look like, how does it develop..).

So just giving them a name (clinically insane), which we do, btw - solves nothing.

Next thing you come up with is "giving them proper attention", which means calling up some institution. Guess what, thats failing as well.

So what do those words mean in that context? Look away and do nothing. Single out some individual, just because we dont like them. Then call a phone number, if they overreact. Those things develop over time. You maybe could have had 20 opportunities, to do something, to integrate such a person somehow. But instead you uttered that sentence.

I wont even call you dumb, because you really are the majority position on that - but you arent adding to any solution. You know that, right?

In the end you are just namecalling. But thank you for bringing it up in this thread, so I could address it.


edit: To condense it down even further, before they do something we call them silent, but very friendly people - and afterwards we call them clinically insane. What a help indeed.


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## DarthDub (May 10, 2019)

notimp said:


> Wall of text


Ever noticed that a majority of mass school shooters are mentally unstable? What I said is a real issue.


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## notimp (May 10, 2019)

Ever noticed that water is wet? Real issue.

But thanks for the contribution.



> Approximately 1 in 5 adults in the U.S. (46.6 million) experiences mental illness in a given year.1


https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-By-the-Numbers

edit: Maybe a little more text.  The thing is, that its really hard to tell from the outside, if a person suffers from a (even mild) depression, or has gone hostile towards their peer group, and plans to act on it. People usually reach out multiple times at least trying to share their situation, and if they withdraw entirely - they usually are still responsive to attention and care. Thats part one. Part two is, that even if you have people with a previous history of mental illness, and maybe even a known aggressive slant, there is still too many of them to keep them on check - and doing so, sometimes even would be non conducive for their health (stigma). You cant predict when a person will "flip" in that way, but you usually can prevent it with simple attention, care, friendly attendance, and yes - medical care, if people are open to it.

More condensed down. There is no predictive magic you can pull here to give professional attention to exactly the ones who need it.


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## Hanafuda (May 10, 2019)

DarthDub said:


> Ever noticed that a majority of mass school shooters are mentally unstable? What I said is a real issue.



That's a given. What I'd like to see is an honest, objective investigation of what percentage of mass school shooters were currently taking prescribed SSRI's when they did it.


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## notimp (May 10, 2019)

Probably average to low. Based on a feeling.  You hear the "they were such nice and helpful guys, I would have never thought..." story far too often. Then they are young, so thats a lower probability as well. And they havent been through psychological screenings (they are usually still in development). Thats general probability. If you would like to infer a statistical grouping, I'm not touching that one. 

Facebook by the way has an algorithmic test for suicide prevention live (see: h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hpo6HFe5xw), but the threshhold towards action is always immediate danger or self harm, because they will essentially inform the police.

Also I wouldnt count on that (algorithmic screening on facebook) to be much of a solution to be honest, simply because of failure rate. (Even at 99% validity, they would constantly trigger false positives, and send police everywhere - so we are still standing at - this is not something you can solve with prediction magic. Also folks can simply stay away from facebook (- once this gets more known), which the younger generation seems to be doing more and more anyhow. )


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