# Nazi Black Ops symbol  adopters Slammed by MS



## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2010)

QUOTE(http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=276956) said:
			
		

> Microsoft has warned Call Of Duty: Black Ops players that they risk being banned from Xbox Live if they adopt the Swastika as their logo during online matches. Because, you know, some people can't come to that conclusion themselves.
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> Stephen Toulouse, the Director of Policy and Enforcement at Xbox Live, took to his blog yesterday to discuss enquiries from gamers who wished to use the emblem online.
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## monkat (Nov 26, 2010)

Cool story, bro.

To be honest, I'd prefer that it not matter. I mean...WWII was quite a while ago, with few living people who were old enough to remember it.

*waits to be flamed...sigh...*


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## Advi (Nov 26, 2010)

i think we all know nobody is using the swastika as a religious symbol.

stupid kids


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Nov 26, 2010)

This reminds me to change my symbol.


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## Scott-105 (Nov 26, 2010)

My brother used it, and I got REALLY mad at him.


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## BlueStar (Nov 26, 2010)

The _Nazi_ swastika is a very specific type of swastika.  It's fair to say I've not seen anyone running around with this on their gun.






A black, boxy swastika rotated 45 degrees and on a backdrop of red and white, however...


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## BobTheJoeBob (Nov 26, 2010)

To be perfectly honest, this guys right. Most people just like the swatstika simply because they think it makes them look "hard"


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## jaxxster (Nov 26, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> The _Nazi_ swastika is a very specific type of swastika.  It's fair to say I've not seen anyone running around with this on their gun.
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Buddhist swastika?


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## Paarish (Nov 26, 2010)

Advi said:
			
		

> i think we all know nobody is using the swastika as a religious symbol.
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> stupid kids



I use it for a religious symbols. I include it some of my home-made diwali cards


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## Deleted-247497 (Nov 26, 2010)

eh who cares let em be assholes, the reason people do it is to get reactions, so lets just not feed the trolls and ignore it.


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## Primenay13 (Nov 26, 2010)

When do they start the bans because ive seen numerous people today that had it.


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## Thoob (Nov 26, 2010)

I completely agree. Nobody is using a swastika on CoD for "religious" reasons. Yes, it does have religious connotations from the past, but after being used by the Nazis in WW2, it is now seen as a symbol of racism and genocide.


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## ManFranceGermany (Nov 26, 2010)

Good decision!


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## Zerousen (Nov 26, 2010)

jaxxster said:
			
		

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I saw this on a Buddha statue at my Buddhist temple, and asked my mom about it. Apparently, it's supposed to stand for peace and harmony, while the swastika the nazis used was ORIGINALLY for peace and wealth, but now for hatred and racism.


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## Thesolcity (Nov 26, 2010)

What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering I have to pay for "XBOX LIVE", but seriously none of you were in ww2, none of you went through that, the nazis are done for, they're gone. And MS is already ban-crazy enough as it is. Now I have to pay for online play, and then be censored and banned because some bastard doesn't like the swastika? Fine, here, using MS's logic and banning symbols having to do with groups that kill an ass load of people.....why don't we censor anything China related? What about North Korea? If you can't go through your life without crying when you see the swastika you probably should just kill yourself now, you weren't around during that time and its over with.


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## ChaosBoi (Nov 26, 2010)

Heard about this some weeks ago, so it's pretty old news to me. Although I don't really care if anyone uses the swastika as their symbol, they shouldn't just use it so casually. Even if there are few who were involved in WWII still living today, the symbol still carries a bloodstained history because of the Nazis. I'm glad I'm on the PS3 since this doesn't affect us, but I'm pretty sure Sony will soon adopt this policy as well.


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## Zerousen (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering I have to pay for "XBOX LIVE", but seriously none of you were in ww2, none of you went through that, the nazis are done for, they're gone. And MS is already ban-crazy enough as it is. Now I have to pay for online play, and then be censored and banned because some bastard doesn't like the swastika? Fine, here, using MS's logic and banning symbols having to do with groups that kill an ass load of people.....why don't we censor anything China related? What about North Korea? If you can't go through your life without crying when you see the swastika you probably should just kill yourself now, you weren't around during that time and its over with.
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uhh, what he said xD


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## Thesolcity (Nov 26, 2010)

I could understand if someone had a relative die in war. But that's no reason to censor games, and then ban you from online play you had to pay for. To me that is a load of crap, there is far more offensive things than a swastika out there, if you don't like swastikas, don't buy the game. Don't make me pay $60+ for censored crap and then ban me from multiplayer cause somebody just HAD to complain. This is the internet, not your mom's house.


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## DJ91990 (Nov 26, 2010)

Well it is a Good thing the Dylvanian Symbol looks NOTHING like a swastika. There is nothing wrong with a backwards "k" with a " ~ " over the top-right side of it is there? THERE BETTER NOT BE! (Starts to rage)

Speaking about Swastikas...Anyone here remember LEVEL 3 - MANJI from THE LEGEND OF ZELDA from the NES? THAT THING LOOKS LIKE A SWASTIKA! All in favor for bashing Miyamoto? Say aye! AYE!


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## BobTheJoeBob (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering I have to pay for "XBOX LIVE", but seriously none of you were in ww2, none of you went through that, the nazis are done for, they're gone. And MS is already ban-crazy enough as it is. Now I have to pay for online play, and then be censored and banned because some bastard doesn't like the swastika? Fine, here, using MS's logic and banning symbols having to do with groups that kill an ass load of people.....why don't we censor anything China related? What about North Korea? If you can't go through your life without crying when you see the swastika you probably should just kill yourself now, you weren't around during that time and its over with.


What reason does someone have to use the swatstika? And some Germans would find it offensive. (ironic I know) But still, I dobubt anyone who used used it as a religious symbol. If the swatstika wasn't the nazi's symbol, nobody would use it in the game.


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## Thesolcity (Nov 26, 2010)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> What reason does someone have to use the swatstika? And some Germans would find it offensive. (ironic I know) But still, I dobubt anyone who used used it as a religious symbol. If the swatstika wasn't the nazi's symbol, nobody would use it in the game.



I think all of germany finds it offensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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And I don't know why someone would use it, maybe they just like the design? Bah, but the point is why would you ban somebody over it when most people don't really care?


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## Paarish (Nov 26, 2010)

It's funny how rotating it 45 degrees makes it a symbol of fascism/rascism


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## BobTheJoeBob (Nov 26, 2010)

30084pm said:
			
		

> It's funny how rotating it 45 degrees makes it a symbol of fascism/rascism


Since when is that the sign of islam? And that celt one doesn't even look like a swatstika. And it doesn't even matter what it was before, point is, when people see it nowwdays, they think nazi, genocide, fascism, etc.


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## Scott-105 (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering I have to pay for "XBOX LIVE", but seriously none of you were in ww2, none of you went through that, the nazis are done for, they're gone. And MS is already ban-crazy enough as it is. Now I have to pay for online play, and then be censored and banned because some bastard doesn't like the swastika? Fine, here, using MS's logic and banning symbols having to do with groups that kill an ass load of people.....why don't we censor anything China related? What about North Korea? If you can't go through your life without crying when you see the swastika you probably should just kill yourself now, you weren't around during that time and its over with.


You mad bro?

Man, you should settle down. The reason they're doing this is because, the the symbol itself is now viewed as racist.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

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You said yourself; the Germans care.


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## Paarish (Nov 26, 2010)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

> Since when is that the sign of islam? And that celt one doesn't even look like a swatstika. And it doesn't even matter what it was before, point is, when people see it nowwdays, they think nazi, genocide, fascism, etc.



It's not the religious symbols but the religious deriatives of the swastika. I know that isn't the Islamic symbol (moon and star right) and that's definitly not the hindu one (which is the "Om" symbol)


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## Thesolcity (Nov 26, 2010)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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Ok let me rephrase that, German government. Its just irritating how everything is being censored for damn stupid reasons nowadays. -_-


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## BlueStar (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering I have to pay for "XBOX LIVE", but seriously none of you were in ww2, none of you went through that, the nazis are done for, they're gone.
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> You don't think there are any Nazis any more?
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What kind of broken logic is that?  You pay to participate in something hosted by a private company so you should be entitled to do whatever you want?  "Hey, I paid to get into this movie, why the hell can't I spent the whole time making straight arm salutes and shouting Seig Heil!"  "I paid to get into this club, why are you telling me to leave just because I took my clothes off and started throwing my own excrement at the wall, just because some people don't like it?!"

If you don't like Microsoft's rules, take your business elsewhere and stop being such an entitled little crybaby.


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## redact (Nov 26, 2010)

why do they get up in arms about this and not about the hammer and sickle?
or an eagle? or the american flag?

every country has a bloodstained history
if you're playing as a nazi then i don't see why you wouldn't be able to use the symbol...

(note: i haven't played much online of this game so i'm not sure if you actually can play as a nazi but i know there were some in that snow base in the single player campaign)


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## BlueStar (Nov 26, 2010)

mercluke said:
			
		

> why do they get up in arms about this and not about the hammer and sickle?
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No, you don't.  The people running around with swastikas on their guns are playing as Russian spetsnaz, American marines etc.  It's disingenuous to pretend it's role playing, people are using it as an expression of their own personal views, not their character's.


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## BobTheJoeBob (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

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But it's not a "damn stupid reason". If my country had a bad history due to a certain organisation that did terrible things on the same level or worse then what the nazi's did. I sure as hell would be offended it some brain dead idiot had it as a symbol for no good reason.


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## Thesolcity (Nov 26, 2010)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> What kind of broken logic is that?  You pay to participate in something hosted by a private company so you should be entitled to do whatever you want?  "Hey, I paid to get into this movie, why the hell can't I spent the whole time making straight arm salutes and shouting Seig Heil!"  "I paid to get into this club, why are you telling me to leave just because I took my clothes off and started throwing my own excrement at the wall, just because some people don't like it?!"
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> If you don't like Microsoft's rules, take your business elsewhere and stop being such a crybaby.



What are you talking about? Being naked and throw shit at a wall or going to a movie and spewing out nazi propaganda isn't even comparable to a little icon you can have while you're playing a game.


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## BlueStar (Nov 26, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

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You're saying you paid for something as if it's a valid argument that means you should be able to have anything you want as your symbol, I'm pointing out that's utter bollocks.  Microsoft are not compelled to allow you to display your support for fascism, neo-nazism and racial superiority on their service, no matter what sense of entitlement you may have from paying five dollars a month.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Nov 26, 2010)

>90% of the people using the swastika as their icon don't even follow the nazi ideology.
They just want to see how many people they can piss off.


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## Tanas (Nov 26, 2010)

Vulpes Abnocto said:
			
		

> >90% of the people using the swastika as their icon don't even follow the nazi ideology.
> They just want to see how many people they can piss off.


90%? more like 99.99


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Nov 26, 2010)

Tanas: You're probably right, but I'm sure there are a few that actually think that they're nazis. 
We've even had a few here.


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## BlueStar (Nov 26, 2010)

Vulpes Abnocto said:
			
		

> >90% of the people using the swastika as their icon don't even follow the nazi ideology.
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> And logging on to XBL with the intention of seeing how many of Microsoft's paying customers you can piss off has been a reason for banning since the service existed, according to the rules you agreed to when you signed up.
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## Thesolcity (Nov 26, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

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Bah, I was just pointing out how BS it is for nothing but an icon can cause someone to cry so MS can bring out the same overused banhammer again. Its all crap, I could understand if they wouldn't shut the hell up about nazis and Hitler then maybe you'd want to report them.....but really....an icon?


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## Scott-105 (Nov 26, 2010)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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I care. I hate the Nazis. What they did was unforgivable.


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## monkat (Nov 27, 2010)

Scott-105 said:
			
		

> I care. I hate the Nazis. What they did was unforgivable.



And they're mostly dead now (and the ones that aren't are old and feeble), so concerning yourself with what they did is a futile effort that serves to do nothing but waste time.

It is important to learn from their mistakes, not make a symbol taboo.


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## BlueStar (Nov 27, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

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And what's the point of your personal icon?  To express something about yourself.  If it's a picture of beer it means "I like beer" if it's a swastika it means "I believe in aryan supremacy and I hate blacks, jews and homosexuals", even if you don't _really_ hate them and you just want to imply that to annoy people.  Microsoft, being a business, does not want its paying customers to be faced with that when it logs on and it has the right to ban people for it.  People have been warned by the rules when they signed up, they've been explicitly told now.  There's no use whining about it and acting all entitled.


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## Zerousen (Nov 27, 2010)

Scott-105 said:
			
		

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not all nazis are bad. I knew a man, he was my grandpa's friend, and he was a Nazi, probablly the nicest guy in the world, but then he died 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's like saying that all communists are evil, power crazy people.


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## BlueStar (Nov 27, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

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Uh, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism


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## Scott-105 (Nov 27, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

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It may be futile, but most of the people using these symbols are simply trying to get attention. That REALLY bugs me. That symbol offends me, simple as that.


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## Thesolcity (Nov 27, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

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Implying an icon you can change at any time represents "you".


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## monkat (Nov 27, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

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Aye - but did they have anything to do with the holocaust?

No? They just have ridiculously horrible beliefs?

Oh. Then I don't see how it has anything to do with what Scott or I were talking about.


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## BlueStar (Nov 27, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

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Oh well, neo-nazis may go around calling for the elimination of non-white races, attacking and killing people, planting nail-bombs in gay clubs, decapitating immigrants and glorifying the holocaust, but as long as they weren't actually there at the holocaust I guess it's fine.  In that case, Microsoft should be forced to allow people to use their icons to support neo-nazism, that sounds only fair.


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## Scott-105 (Nov 27, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

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Monkat, he has a point. They directly support the holocaust.


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Nov 27, 2010)

BobTheJoeBob said:
			
		

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Its not the sign of islam its an example of a swatsika used in islam.


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## monkat (Nov 27, 2010)

Scott-105 said:
			
		

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No.

Anyone can protest for all they want, be it abortion (or lackthereof), reform, or something more twisted. Attacking and killing people is a person-by-person element - being part of a movement does not force one to commit murder or violence. 

As for 'glorifying the holocaust', many factions do not - only the fundamental beliefs of nazism (which have very little to do with the holocaust - it was just a means to a financial end).

Microsoft should not be forced to do anything, and I am in no way conveying that - I am talking about the societal role of the symbol. Making that symbol unpopular amongst ... people does not solve anything that you hold as bad.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Nov 27, 2010)

We're beginning to stray from the topic, fellas.


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## BlueStar (Nov 27, 2010)

And how do we get from 'people should be allowed to celebrate the holocaust' to 'people should be allowed to display racist insignia on xbox live in spite of it being explicitly against the terms of service'?


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## Knyaz Vladimir (Nov 27, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> And how do we get from 'people should be allowed to celebrate the holocaust' to 'people should be allowed to display racist insignia on xbox live in spite of it being explicitly against the terms of service'?


Claim that it's part of your religion.

On that image a few posts above, the hindu one confuses me the most.


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## GeekyGuy (Nov 27, 2010)

Good job, TC. Thanks for spreading this garbage to the GBATemp forums. This isn't news. This is a bunch of racists kids attempting to make their voice heard by a community that will now and always reject the mindset brought forth by the Nazi regime. 

And to those who posts pics and text regarding "other" possible symbolism of the swastika, GTFO. Worldwide, unless you're mentally handicapped in some way, that symbol is now well associated with one of terror, murder and a general hatred for those outside of a particular race. No amount of cutesy pictures with labels attached to other races and religions will change that.

And to those who argue free speech, you obviously have little to know clear understanding of the American Bill of Rights (which is at the heart of this argument, as MS are a US based corporation). Even if they didn't have the rights to (which they do) prohibit certain speech under privacy agreements you entered into when signing up for XBLA, US freedom of speech is not unlimited. Feel free to visit your local library (not Google) for a more accurate understanding of the laws you're (US citizens) beholden to.

Thanks!


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## Domination (Nov 27, 2010)

Yeah and the Christians killed many through the witch hunts and crusades, so should the cross be banned too? And next they'll be claiming Muslims killed many people through terrorist acts and ban the star and crescent? And maybe, they'll ban the hammer and the sickle for all the deaths the communists cost? And also the US flag for all the soldiers dead in all the wars?

Really, this is just hypocritical and discriminatory. 

Plus, the people who want to use the insignia are most probably ignorant teenage wankers who don't mean any ill-will and antisemitism and were just like "hey, this is cool!". And the symbol has many variations, Buddhists use swastikas too and they are one of the most peaceful religions.


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## Zerousen (Nov 27, 2010)

ignore this ;-;


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## Sterling (Nov 27, 2010)

Domination said:
			
		

> Yeah and the Christians killed many through the witch hunts and crusades, so should the cross be banned too? And next they'll be claiming Muslims killed many people through terrorist acts and ban the star and crescent? And maybe, they'll ban the hammer and the sickle for all the deaths the communists cost? And also the US flag for all the soldiers dead in all the wars?
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No, the symbol itself is widely denounced, and demonized. For obvious reasons, it offends people to the point of anger. For a bit of reference of how many people used it: I have seen one Christian Cross, no Star and Crescents, maybe a few Hammer and Sickles. I have however, seen more Nazi Swastikas than I can count. Along with several emblems that have no place in a FPS than one where you play fully naked, and with ballistic dildos or something. Also, the OP has the punishment all wrong. According to the blog on the official website, the most that can be denied to you is a permaban from the Emblem editor, only in rare cases Live. Obviously, these first few are used as examples.


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## MelodieOctavia (Nov 27, 2010)

So, someone came in here saying since they pay for Live they should be able to display whatever symbol they want. Yeah ok.


I'll tell you what, walk into any place of business with a swastika cuff on your arm and see how long you stay there. Seriously get your head out of your ass.


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## Canonbeat234 (Nov 27, 2010)

Hahahahaha, so Tempers here actually have a sensitive side. How trivial are we? 

Symbolism is only used to gain a cultural, media, and religious influence among the masses of weak-minded individuals who can't think for themselves. Albeit, this may anger some, its true to the rest of the world. Let's keep on topic, ok.

This so-called symbol is being banned by MS due to the fact they own the company of the Xbox360, they are the owners of Xbox LIVE, they will still make money even if they ban your pathetic existance on their server, AND they can! You can yell, troll, and do the 'famous' internet last-call. It will make no difference since thousands of other players will enjoy the game w/o the symbol their gameplay.


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## Zerousen (Nov 27, 2010)

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It depends on the symbol's meaning if it is offensive or not, but I guess people nowadays consider every swastika a bad one.


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## GeekyGuy (Nov 27, 2010)

Domination said:
			
		

> Yeah and the Christians killed many through the witch hunts and crusades, so should the cross be banned too? And next they'll be claiming Muslims killed many people through terrorist acts and ban the star and crescent? And maybe, they'll ban the hammer and the sickle for all the deaths the communists cost? And also the US flag for all the soldiers dead in all the wars?
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Normally, I enjoy a good volley of semantics, but your logic is out and out flawed, my friend. Neither Christian nor Muslim religion fundamentally teaches hatred and murder of other races, in spite of a few fanatics here and there. Nazism, on the other hand, built its movement upon the foundation of hatred and murder. You really should fucking think before you speak.


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## cwstjdenobs (Nov 27, 2010)

TBH they should just ban any show of political or religious belief. EDIT: Just to be safe I better point out I count atheism and humanism as religious beliefs.



			
				GeekyGuy said:
			
		

> Neither Christian nor Muslim religion fundamentally teaches hatred and murder of other races



A lot of people would argue that they do. Maybe not of different races, but both say at some point it's expected to kill people who don't agree with them. You just have to listen to any argument on gay rights to see them quote some of the relevant sections.

And I know they also say different in other places.

EDIT: Also do you get the symbol from the game? If so then MS should have seen this coming and not allowed it before it went to press.


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## Fabis94 (Nov 27, 2010)

If it's that bad, why is it in the game in the first place?


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## Snorlax (Nov 27, 2010)

Fabis94 said:
			
		

> If it's that bad, why is it in the game in the first place?


It's not in the game, but it can be created in the game by users using the ingame Emblem Editor (or whatever it's called).


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## Deleted User (Nov 27, 2010)

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Yes it is, in the zombie mode swastikas are hung all over the place.


Also, what if someone wanted to make a manji, will they get banned too?
?


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## Chaosruler (Nov 27, 2010)

monkat said:
			
		

> Cool story, bro.
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> *waits to be flamed...sigh...*


Personally, being a Jew with quite a lot of his family "reduced" during WWII, it's kinda hard to forget that symbol, but it's not like I can't deal with it, I am just full of anger when I see it


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## BlueStar (Nov 27, 2010)

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On the people you're fighting and on a Nazi building, not as the logo you choose to represent yourself with.  If one of the factions was nazis it would be fine to have a swastika armband, but you're fighting as marines and spetsnaz, it's not role play, it's a display of racial hatred.  And, surprise surprise, a company doesn't want its paying customers subjected to that.  All this "But, but, but..." is being deliberately disingenuous.  It's like saying "Why can't I call my clan Cunts?  Maybe I just like German footballer Stephan Kuntz.  What about the guy whose gamertag is cocktail, cock's a swearword!  How come cunt is a bad word and xbox isn't, they're just a collection of four letters, how come I'm allowed to set my location as S*cunt*horpe, why is that allowed, I don't understand etc etc etc."

Anyone who thought MS's ToS would allow you to run around with a swastika avatar is seriously thick as pigshit, and if they think playing dumb is a legitimate defence then they've got no-one but themselves to blame when they go crying to their parents about getting banned.  If you walk into a bar with an Al Quaeda t-shirt or a White Power tattoo, the owner has every right to weigh up if he wants you to stay there and risk pissing off a good proportion of his other paying customers or if he wants to kick you out.  That does not mean you are being oppressed or your right to free speech is being curtailed ("Free speech" to some people meaning "I can say whatever I like and no-one is allowed to call me a bigot for it")


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## Deleted User (Nov 27, 2010)

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Gordon Brown objects to this.


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## Paarish (Nov 27, 2010)

tigris said:
			
		

> Gordon Brown objects to this.


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## SPH73 (Nov 27, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering yappity yappity yap yao yap...
> 
> What kind of society do we live in where idiot children look lightly upon a war that cost the lives of 55 million people?
> 
> ...



Mao Ze-Dong 49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin 23,000,000
Adolf Hitler 12,000,000
Pol Pot 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung 1,600,000
Benito Mussolini 300,000

Actually atheists have killed more people in this century than Christians have killed in every century combined.

It must be great to be totally ignorant of history and lacking in any shred of morality. I imagine its just like being an animal. I mean seriously, who needs a conscience?

inb4umadbro,nazilovers,appoligists,haters,etc


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## petspaps (Nov 27, 2010)

my thoughts, people are idiots. history in not being taught properly these days. people who are intelligent are being stamped out by the idiots.


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## George Dawes (Nov 27, 2010)

Lets hope they start banning people who also use the swastika in Forza, I've seen more than a few cars with it.

If this is MS' official position then I'm going to go report any I see in all games featuring an emblem/logo editor.


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## Sterling (Nov 27, 2010)

I guess y'all missed my post about the official punishment:


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Also, the OP has the punishment all wrong. According to the blog on the official website, the most that can be denied to you is a permaban from the Emblem editor, only in rare cases Live. Obviously, these first few are used as examples.



Not to mention there are more than just offensive swastikas floating around.


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## Deleted User (Nov 27, 2010)

what happened to freedom of speech?


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## Law (Nov 27, 2010)

tigris said:
			
		

> what happened to freedom of speech?



I think what people have been saying is that it doesn't really apply because it would fall under hate speech (due to how the symbol has come to be recognised).

For example: If you were walking down the street calling everybody you see a derogatory term and swearing. You'd probably be charged with a breach of public order (or whatever they call it).


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## GeekyGuy (Nov 27, 2010)

Law said:
			
		

> tigris said:
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To be more accurate (as it pertains to US law, anyway), it would likely fall under "fighting words." Most people don't seem to have even a moderate grasp on the whole "freedom of speech" thing in America.

Nonetheless, the swastika does enjoy freedom to be shown within certain contexts, but that's not the point. People seem to think that laws related to freedom of speech somehow supplant the agreement they sign when logging onto XBLA -- they don't -- end of story. You don't like it, you can get online service for gaming somewhere else. You ain't gonna win a legal battle on the matter when MS is doing nothing illegal.

Forget for a second that the swastika is a completely abhorrent symbol. You cannot define XBLA as a service for MS. Just get the fuck over it, people. Go do your racism thing in private, and we'll gladly leave you alone.


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## BlueStar (Nov 28, 2010)

tigris said:
			
		

> what happened to freedom of speech?


Freedom of speech doesn't apply in a private place.  If I come into your house and call your mom a slut, you can tell me to leave.  If you post rom links on gbatemp, the people who own the forum can ban you.  If you create a swastika as your logo, the people who own the service you play on can remove it.


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## Midna (Nov 28, 2010)

Haha, people bitching about censorship and freedom of speech. You guys are funny.


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## DeathStrudel (Nov 28, 2010)

I think it's kinda messed up that he assumes everyone against this policy doesn't really care about the swastikas original meaning. He says nobody would wear a swastika t-shit, but I, being a buddhist, have a swastika tattoo, because even though it was at one point used as a symbol of evil, it did, and still does, hold great significance to many religions today. I also consider myself an educated human and have to say that I DO look at the swastika and feel that it's twisted meaning SHOULD be ignored. If it was ignored no one would ever be offended by it. It's one thing if someone is using a swastika image from the Nazi Germany era and is in someway clearly disrespecting those whom it might offend, but if it's a religious image and the user isn't screaming death to jews and such, there should be no problem with it. There are plenty of swastikas in the Call of Duty games, how is that different? If just seeing something like that offends you, then you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. The game is rated M, the people playing it should be MATURE enough to handle seeing it just like they do in games, on TV, in books, etc.


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## Maplemage (Nov 28, 2010)

My friends call me Hitler just because im German >.> then some new kid came over school and his German and they call Hitlers >.>


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## BlueStar (Nov 28, 2010)

DeathStrudel said:
			
		

> It's one thing if someone is using a swastika image from the Nazi Germany era and is in someway clearly disrespecting those whom it might offend, but if it's a religious image and the user isn't screaming death to jews and such, there should be no problem with it.



It's not being used in a religious way, the Nazi swastika is unique and different in style, colour and rotation to other ones.  Microsoft has no compulsion to provide a platform for people to exercise their 'freedom of speech' with nazi symbols.  MS has decided that they don't want the display of extremist views detracting from their entertainment service and they've decided that if something is likely to be offensive to many of their paying customers, they want it removed.  That's their right, welcome to free market capitalism.


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## Evo.lve (Nov 28, 2010)

Just a little bit of trivia:
Millions of people joined the Nazi party, but their means were not always criminal. Joining the Nazi party gave you many privileges in Nazi Germany.

The swastika is seen as a symbol of terror, of racism, of anti-homosexuality, etc. And it's total bullshit that someone could be so retarded that they would go "OMG YOU CAN USE A SWASTIKA AS AN EMBLEM I'M SO USING THAT SO I CAN PISS MY NEIGHBOUR OFF".


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## impur1ty (Nov 28, 2010)

They are totally justified in not allowing particular symbols, but they should at least be consistent and disallow Stalinist and Maoist symbols.


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## cwstjdenobs (Nov 28, 2010)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Adolf Hitler 12,000,000
> Benito Mussolini 300,000



Those two where Catholics not atheists. Prayers used to be said for Hitler at the Vatican every year on his birthday. EDIT: Almost all of the top Nazi's where confessing Catholics and the only one to get excommunicated was Goebbels for marrying a protestant.


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## SpiritBoy (Nov 28, 2010)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> What kinda society do I live in where this is ok? Geez, really? I should be free to have whatever symbol I choose considering I have to pay for "XBOX LIVE", but seriously none of you were in ww2, none of you went through that, the nazis are done for, they're gone. And MS is already ban-crazy enough as it is. Now I have to pay for online play, and then be censored and banned because some bastard doesn't like the swastika? Fine, here, using MS's logic and banning symbols having to do with groups that kill an ass load of people.....why don't we censor anything China related? What about North Korea? If you can't go through your life without crying when you see the swastika you probably should just kill yourself now, you weren't around during that time and its over with.



No, but our famillies, grandfathers, and all of out ancestors were.

NEWS FLASH PEOPLE - There are millions of Jews everywhere living. Pretty much all of them have some connection to the holocaust. Pretty much all of us see this symbol and, guess what, we are reminded of the Nazis. Of 6 million. And guess what? Nazis aren't gone yet. Neo-Nazis, using your precious fucking freedom of speech right still exist in America. Israel is surrounded by Arab governments who want to finish us completely. Whenever Jews cemeteries and Synagogues are vandalized with the swastika, trust me it's not in the Buddhist meaning of it.
I realize this is the internet so people are dumb as fuck by default but jesus fucking christ guys. You need to draw the line somewhere.


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## MelodieOctavia (Nov 28, 2010)

DeathStrudel said:
			
		

> I think it's kinda messed up that he assumes everyone against this policy doesn't really care about the swastikas original meaning. He says nobody would wear a swastika t-shit, but I, being a buddhist, have a swastika tattoo, because even though it was at one point used as a symbol of evil, it did, and still does, hold great significance to many religions today. I also consider myself an educated human and have to say that I DO look at the swastika and feel that it's twisted meaning SHOULD be ignored. If it was ignored no one would ever be offended by it. It's one thing if someone is using a swastika image from the Nazi Germany era and is in someway clearly disrespecting those whom it might offend, but if it's a religious image and the user isn't screaming death to jews and such, there should be no problem with it. There are plenty of swastikas in the Call of Duty games, how is that different? If just seeing something like that offends you, then you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. The game is rated M, the people playing it should be MATURE enough to handle seeing it just like they do in games, on TV, in books, etc.



Nazi Swastika:
http://imgur.com/6xJUm.jpg

Buddhist _Svastika_:
http://imgur.com/N113y.jpg



The styles are very different, and they can be told apart easily. There is NO ONE on BO that I have seen that utilizes the Buddhist _Svastika_. No one. Your point is moot.


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## Law (Nov 28, 2010)

Evo.lve said:
			
		

> And it's total bullshit that someone could be so retarded that they would go "OMG YOU CAN USE A SWASTIKA AS AN EMBLEM I'M SO USING THAT SO I CAN PISS MY NEIGHBOUR OFF".



No it isn't. That sounds incredibly plausible.


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## Crass (Nov 28, 2010)

ITT: Ignorant and self-righteous white kids getting upset @ Microsoft for stifling their "civil rights/freedom" of speech because Microsoft won't let them use a flag in their gay shooty game that is universally derided as a symbol of hate. Basically, no one gives a shit. Just because you pay for a service does not mean you get to set the rules for the service.


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## Livin in a box (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm not saying for one moment that it should be allowed to have the Swastika as an emblem but it's used in the Zombies part of the game so I think it's a bit hypocritical of them.


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## MelodieOctavia (Nov 28, 2010)

Livin in a box said:
			
		

> I'm not saying for one moment that it should be allowed to have the Swastika as an emblem but it's used in the Zombies part of the game so I think it's a bit hypocritical of them.



Not really. The zombies are Nazi. Now if you can tell me where in the Multiplayer portion of the game you play as a Nazi, you will have proven your point. But as it stands it's comparing apples to an orange smoothie.

In certain contexts, using the swastika is appropriate (Displaying Nazis in a video game, or Nazi zombies if your prefer)

In multiplayer there is and will never be an appropriate context to use that symbol. There is no instance where you play a Nazi. ever.


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## GreatZimkogway (Nov 28, 2010)

What's funny about this is that, if it's on Xbox Live, Microsoft approved it.  Way to approve something then go turning around and banning people for using a GODDAMN IMAGE.  THAT'S NOT EVEN OBSCENE.


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## Law (Nov 28, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> What's funny about this is that, if it's on Xbox Live, Microsoft approved it.  Way to approve something then go turning around and banning people for using a GODDAMN IMAGE.  THAT'S NOT EVEN OBSCENE.



It's an emblem editor, anybody can draw anything. If you seriously can't use your own common sense to realise what is okay to use and what isn't, you deserve to get banned.


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## GreatZimkogway (Nov 28, 2010)

Law said:
			
		

> shinkukage09 said:
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I start corrected.  I assume that emblem editor is BO only?  How sucky.  And either way.  It's only because people are too sensitive over every.  little.  thing. that this is happening.  "Oh my god, he's using a symbol like that, lets all get him banned boo-freaking-hoo."  Cy me a river.  And all those that used it...Successful Trolls are Successful.


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## MelodieOctavia (Nov 28, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> What's funny about this is that, if it's on Xbox Live, Microsoft approved it.  Way to approve something then go turning around and banning people for using a GODDAMN IMAGE.  THAT'S NOT EVEN OBSCENE.



That's just like banning Photoshop because people can do various illegal things with it. Or banning cameras because they are capable of filming counterfeit movies.

MS Approved the use of an image editor of sorts. There isn't much yu can do to prevent people from using their imagination (or lack thereof)


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## Crass (Nov 28, 2010)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> There isn't much yu can do to prevent people from using their imagination (or lack thereof)



Sure you can, thats why people are getting banned/warned. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.


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## Evo.lve (Nov 29, 2010)

Law said:
			
		

> Evo.lve said:
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Worded incorrectly on my behalf. I meant people that don't know/think about the meaning it has.


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## MelodieOctavia (Nov 29, 2010)

Crass said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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That would be a consequence. You can't really take preventative measures with an image editor without some pretty nifty scripting. Bans/warns are not a preventative measure.


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## George Dawes (Nov 29, 2010)

impur1ty said:
			
		

> They are totally justified in not allowing particular symbols, but they should at least be consistent and disallow Stalinist and Maoist symbols.


Why?  Those regimes didn't set out to persecute people based on their ethnicity or mental health.  Yes, the purges of political opponents were terrible (unforgivable, even) but don't even begin to compare to the persecution from the NSDAP.


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## Fabis94 (Dec 1, 2010)

George Dawes said:
			
		

> impur1ty said:
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Are you serious? Who the fuck cares why did they kill people? What matters is HOW MANY did they kill!
And Stalin killed a whole lot more.


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## George Dawes (Dec 1, 2010)

Fabis94 said:
			
		

> Are you serious? Who the fuck cares why did they kill people? What matters is HOW MANY did they kill!


One death is too many.  What matters is WHY they killed.  Killing people because they are of a different race to you is evil - have you learned nothing from the defeat of fascism in the 30-40s?  Obviously not, and this is why it is on the rise again.


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