# Sony drops PS4 Bundle prices ahead of Switch launch



## Imacaredformy2ds (Feb 9, 2017)

WOAH


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## Reyn_the_Insane (Feb 9, 2017)

Nice try Sony


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 9, 2017)

Pfff good job. They aren't even running the discount through the Switch launch, where it would have made the most sense competition-wise


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## Robert McCoy (Feb 9, 2017)

Mother. F***ers. I just got the uncharted bundle last week. Are you kidding me. Wtf. I still have the receipt... possibly return for full refund then buy it $50 cheaper??? lol be nice if I can.


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## Depravo (Feb 9, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Pfff good job. They aren't even running the discount through the Switch launch, where it would have made the most sense competition-wise


No, they want impatient people to spend their savings before the Switch is even out but too soon to save up for Switch launch day.


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## Reyn_the_Insane (Feb 9, 2017)

Depravo said:


> No, they want impatient people to spend their savings before the Switch is even out but too soon to save up for Switch launch day.


You'd have to have an IQ of -4 to even consider doing that.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 9, 2017)

Too bad, already have a PS3, which has backwards compat, nice try Sony XD


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 9, 2017)

We are proud of PS3 and PS4 owner (Sorry Wii U). Anyway.. Nice try, Sony and it is still ugly than we have for PS4 2 years ago. So ugly slim looking, sorry.


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## Yil (Feb 9, 2017)

I'd be happy to grab a ps4 pro or psvr at this price without game.


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## baller4eva14 (Feb 9, 2017)

https://media.giphy.com/media/1M9fmo1WAFVK0/giphy.gif

If it were the PS4 Pro, you might have had something there.


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## tbb043 (Feb 9, 2017)

Robert McCoy said:


> Mother. F***ers. I just got the uncharted bundle last week. Are you kidding me. Wtf. I still have the receipt... possibly return for full refund then buy it $50 cheaper??? lol be nice if I can.



Some places will price match rather than make you do a full return if the price on something drops like that. Check the store policy.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 9, 2017)

Depravo said:


> No, they want impatient people to spend their savings before the Switch is even out but too soon to save up for Switch launch day.


I can _kind_ of understand that, but from a marketing/competition perspective wouldn't it be best for them to have a PS4 sitting on a shelf next to the Switch at $50 less? That way they could at least do the marketing bs of "Ooo we have the most powerful system on the market* and our console is cheaper than the newest ones**"

*PS4 Pro
**PS4 Bundle


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## Master_Jorn (Feb 9, 2017)

WiiUBricker said:


> View attachment 77704​
> Starting from February 12th  through February 25th, Sony is dropping the prices of select PS4 Slim bundles in the US to $249. You can get the Uncharted 4 and Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare bundles with the updated Dualshock 4 and 500GB HDD at that price. No info so far on a price reduction in Europe.
> 
> The Nintendo Switch launches on March 3rd in the US for a suggested retail price of $299.
> ...


Poor Sony, there's nothing to be scared of... BOO, hehe.


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## duffmmann (Feb 9, 2017)

I'm surprised they end the promotion before the Switch launches.  It seems like if Sony really wanted to hurt Nintendo here, they'd have the promotion last another week or so.


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## osaka35 (Feb 9, 2017)

I'll pick up a pro when those prices go down, but not before.


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## duffmmann (Feb 9, 2017)

Robert McCoy said:


> Mother. F***ers. I just got the uncharted bundle last week. Are you kidding me. Wtf. I still have the receipt... possibly return for full refund then buy it $50 cheaper??? lol be nice if I can.



Most retail chains will let you come in within 2 weeks after you bought your product with your receipt, point them to the new promotional price and they'll pay you back the difference so you wouldn't have to return it and buy it again.  Target definitely does this, and I'm pretty sure plenty of other bigger chains do as well.


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## DarkCoffe64 (Feb 9, 2017)

Lol, they're trying to tempt the people that saved money for the switch-
Nice try, $ony.


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## Robert McCoy (Feb 9, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> Most retail chains will let you come in within 2 weeks after you bought your product with your receipt, point them to the new promotional price and they'll pay you back the difference so you wouldn't have to return it and buy it again.  Target definitely does this, and I'm pretty sure plenty of other bigger chains do as well.



Well. I picked it up from Walmart.


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## duffmmann (Feb 9, 2017)

Robert McCoy said:


> Well. I picked it up from Walmart.



They should definitely have a very similar policy.  Give them a call if you're unsure though.


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## Deleted User (Feb 9, 2017)

PS4 Slim? Lmao I guess they really aren't promoting the new boost mode and PS4 Pro.

Fuck off consoles. Take your exclusives with you.


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## duffmmann (Feb 9, 2017)

VinLark said:


> PS4 Slim? Lmao I guess they really aren't promoting the new boost mode and PS4 Pro.
> 
> *Fuck off consoles. Take your exclusives with you.*



That's literally what they've always done lol.


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## DrkBeam (Feb 9, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> I'm surprised they end the promotion before the Switch launches.  It seems like if Sony really wanted to hurt Nintendo here, they'd have the promotion last another week or so.


Maybe is the saturn effect, they cut the price of ps1, after the saturn did the same they went on the price contest until sega became third party


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## Joe88 (Feb 10, 2017)

Robert McCoy said:


> Mother. F***ers. I just got the uncharted bundle last week. Are you kidding me. Wtf. I still have the receipt... possibly return for full refund then buy it $50 cheaper??? lol be nice if I can.


depends who the retailer is, you might be able to get a price adjustment (give you the $50 back in store gift card) or just return it as you said assuming it hasnt been opened yet


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## duffmmann (Feb 10, 2017)

DrkBeam said:


> Maybe is the saturn effect, they cut the price of ps1, after the saturn did the same they went on the price contest until sega became third party



Well Nintendo has enough money for at least 3 or 4 more failed consoles before they have to worry about going third party.  Beyond that, no matter how badly the Switch may do, there is no way it will ever be as obscure as the Saturn, for starters the Switch already has a long of very strong games coming to it.  Only Saturn game of note I can think of is Nights.


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## DrkBeam (Feb 10, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> Well Nintendo has enough money for at least 3 or 4 more failed consoles before they have to worry about going third party.  Beyond that, no matter how badly the Switch may do, there is no way it will ever be as obscure as the Saturn, for starters the Switch already has a long of very strong games coming to it.  Only Saturn game of note I can think of is Nights.


Im Just saying Sony might done this tactic before, I'm not sure if it was intentional to ruin more the other company by doing that, but what I read I think Microsoft is more provable to leave the console market


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Feb 10, 2017)

They seem like they give up on the pro, no discount is disappointing. for 300 I might have bought it. Some bad marketing decisions, i already mentioned that before.


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## anthony001 (Feb 10, 2017)

what did sony update on the DS4?


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## Hells Malice (Feb 10, 2017)

Would be nicer if they put a Pro bundle on sale. I need one exclusively to play Nier Automata.
So much sadness in my world not being able to play that game at launch.

I can't stand buying a shitty PS4 when the better one exists and isn't much more expensive.


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## flame1234 (Feb 10, 2017)

The light bar is visible from the front, through the touch pad. This does not matter at all for games. It helps slightly: 1) making sure the controller is charging 2) making sure the controller is connected at the start of a play session
The way the controller communicates when connected via USB has changed, but I'm not sure how. I think now it works the way you would expect - the radio is turned off and commands are passed bidirectionally over USB, and that wasn't the case before, but I'm not exactly sure.

PS4 controller has a gyroscope and a touchpad that the Xbox One controller does not have, and a whole lot less battery life, about half, as compared to the Xbox One controller.
I would rather have the battery life as multi-platform games, which is most of them, can't use the touchpad or gyroscope because of least common denominator. PS4 exclusive games will usually use both the touchpad and gyro, but they don't make a huge difference for gameplay.

When I bought the Pro is was $400 for the Pro and $300 for the Slim + a game I don't want.
Now you could consider purchasing the Slim during this special sale because the price gap is big enough. You could get half a switch for that price difference.

Lowering price increases demand! News at 11.


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## netovsk (Feb 10, 2017)

OMG Sonya is desperate!!!

Nah not really, 2017 is going to be the first decent year for the ps4 regarding exclusives. Switch or not, they should be good

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



flame1234 said:


> The light bar is visible from the front, through the touch pad. This does not matter at all for games.
> 
> PS4 controller has a gyroscope and a touchpad that the Xbox One controller does not have, and a whole lot less battery life, about half, as compared to the Xbox One controller.


 
Front light bar helps a lot for certain games. In RE revelations 2, for instance, light is your health indicator and I often found myself rotating the controller to check health.

Saying that PS4 controller battery life is half Xbox would be too much generosity towards Sony. With the official Xbox One Battery pack (play and charge kit) we are talking about 20-30 hours battery life here.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Feb 10, 2017)

Lower prices is always good for the consumer, not sure how this will affect (effect?) Switch sales... 

I get the feeling that Sony is actually kind of worried about the Switch if they are doing this.


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## linuxares (Feb 10, 2017)

netovsk said:


> OMG Sonya is desperate!!!
> 
> Nah not really, 2017 is going to be the first decent year for the ps4 regarding exclusives. Switch or not, they should be good


Well it's 22 as far as cheatsheet.com mentions. And on that list personally only one game speaks to me and it's Persona 5. Rest is meh (I know I know, the last of us 2 but I haven't played the first one and I'm not a superfan of stealth games.)


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## netovsk (Feb 10, 2017)

linuxares said:


> Well it's 22 as far as cheatsheet.com mentions. And on that list personally only one game speaks to me and it's Persona 5. Rest is meh (I know I know, the last of us 2 but I haven't played the first one and I'm not a superfan of stealth games.)



I'm also excited for Ni No Kuni 2, Divide and Nier Automata, let alone titles released in January like Gravity Rush 2 and Tales of Berseria. As much as I despised my PS4 until now, 2017 is looking good.


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## Hielkenator (Feb 10, 2017)

Seems SONY is afraid, lol!
Could this be another "Wii" hit? they are thinking....

It's time for something else, something different, it;s time for a switch!!!!!


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## Foxi4 (Feb 10, 2017)

I don't understand the complaints. You get a good deal on a system bundle with games, guaranteed support and an extensive library - if you don't want it, don't buy it.


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## Pachee (Feb 10, 2017)

Hielkenator said:


> Seems SONY is afraid, lol!
> Could this be another "Wii" hit? they are thinking....
> 
> It's time for something else, something different, it;s time for a switch!!!!!


They are not afraid of anything, they are doing exactly what they did with the PS2: Make sure it will not just win, but crush anything Nintendo has to offer.


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## mgrev (Feb 10, 2017)

azoreseuropa said:


> We are proud of PS3 and PS4 owner (Sorry Wii U). Anyway.. Nice try, Sony and it is still ugly than we have for PS4 2 years ago. So ugly slim looking, sorry.


who needs a wii u when you have a pc and cemu anyway


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 10, 2017)

mgrev said:


> who needs a wii u when you have a pc and cemu anyway



That's true. I am waiting for the Mac version.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Feb 10, 2017)

I got a idea, no one buy it and then see if sony drop price on the pro system.


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## thorasgar (Feb 10, 2017)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> I got a idea, no one buy it and then see if sony drop price on the pro system.


Better idea. Everyone buy it on 24-25th and then return it after picking up your Switch.  

/jk


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## Foxi4 (Feb 10, 2017)

Hielkenator said:


> Seems SONY is afraid, lol!
> Could this be another "Wii" hit? they are thinking....
> 
> It's time for something else, something different, it;s time for a switch!!!!!


Something else, something different, a... tablet with HDMI Out? C'mon now. They have a 50 million unit lead over Nintendo, they have nothing to fear - even if Nintendo gains a substantial market share, developers will still develop for a userbase that large, and with games come unit sales. They're simply trying to cut the branch the Switch is sitting on.


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Something else, something different, *a... tablet with HDMI Out*? C'mon now. They have a 50 million unit lead over Nintendo, they have nothing to fear - even if Nintendo gains a substantial market share, developers will still develop for a userbase that large, and with games come unit sales. They're simply trying to cut the branch the Switch is sitting on.


.... and two HD rumble dildos with extra- smooth vibrations

srsly tho the switch is worse then a shitty tablet with hdmi- the tablet has android with its huge library and popularity (DONT TELL ME HOW SHITTY THE SMARTPHONE LIBRARY IS, most ppl dont care)


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## foob (Feb 11, 2017)

Sony, I know Vita is just a recent death, but please get back into portable gaming with a MicroSD-based unit.

It's so odd to see the manufacturer that has pushed visuals & sound quality improvements in portables more than anyone (ever since the Walkman & then the PSP & then the Vita) not make gaming portables in 2017. Besides, the card-making King Of Love Hotels needs some healthy direct competition.


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

foob said:


> Sony, I know Vita is just a recent death, but please get back into portable gaming with a MicroSD-based unit.
> 
> It's so odd to see the manufacturer that has pushed visuals & sound quality improvements in portables more than anyone (ever since the Walkman & then the PSP & then the Vita) not make gaming portables in 2017. Besides, the card-making King Of Love Hotels needs some healthy direct competition.


The portable console market is pretty dead- only 2% of gamers game on them. Compare this to smartphone, which iirc has 35% including tablets, and you get the picture that its not that smart business wise to make another portable console...


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Feb 11, 2017)

PS4 has an amazing library of games so this price drop will just make it even sweeter for newcomers who're pondering between a PS4 or a Switch. I really want to play Crash Bandicoot but haven't bought a PS4 yet.


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## foob (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> The portable console market is pretty dead- only 2% of gamers game on them. Compare this to smartphone, which iirc has 35% including tablets, and you get the picture that its not that smart business wise to make another portable console...


The latest Australian statistics show 15% (but yes, dropping).
http://www.igea.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Digital-Australia-2016-DA16-Final.pdf

4 euro countries range from 8% (GB) to 16% (France) according to these guys: 
http://www.isfe.eu/industry-facts/statistics

It can't be just 2% overall wordwide, can it?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> The portable console market is pretty dead- only 2% of gamers game on them. Compare this to smartphone, which iirc has 35% including tablets, and you get the picture that its not that smart business wise to make another portable console...


Simple fix - make the portable a smartphone. And I don't mean like the Xperia Play, I mean a full-on console with phone functionality and AAA titles. It's really not that hard. The reason portables are dying is because smartphones are taking their place - merge the smartphone with the console and you have an unbeatable deal.


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## foob (Feb 11, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> merge the smartphone with the console and you have an unbeatable deal.


How? Outside of disappearing/collapsible thumbsticks and disappearing tactile controls, I don't see any gaming portable matching the convenience of any phone that slips in your pocket (without protrusions) or that slips in a thin tablet case. So the question to me is: how would they do it while maintaining the physical dimensions of the typical phone or tablet. No wider. No fatter. Just a convenient. Yet with tactile controls that a 'true gamer' will demand?

Otherwise it's just another phone / tablet.


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Simple fix - make the portable a smartphone. And I don't mean like the Xperia Play, I mean a full-on console with phone functionality and AAA titles. It's really not that hard. The reason portables are dying is because smartphones are taking their place - merge the smartphone with the console and you have an unbeatable deal.


problems-
1. people would buy samsung s(something) and hack nintendo stuff there then buy a nintendo smartphone. and it is inevitable unless ninty will make some dual boot or something. also unlikely.
2. someone who buys a phone and isnt a gamer wont buy a handheld but a simple smartphone, and play on it.

but other then that thats exactly what I think... but for some reason I dont see it happening...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



foob said:


> The latest Australian statistics show 15% (but yes, dropping).
> http://www.igea.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Digital-Australia-2016-DA16-Final.pdf
> 
> 4 euro countries range from 8% (GB) to 16% (France) according to these guys:
> ...


actually in china and Africa the gaming consoles are pretty unpopular afaik, and smartphone and pc- the only option. and considering that they have large populations that could decrease it to 2% overall...
sad but true


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## Foxi4 (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> problems-
> 1. people would buy samsung s(something) and hack nintendo stuff there then buy a nintendo smartphone. and it is inevitable unless ninty will make some dual boot or something. also unlikely.
> 2. someone who buys a phone and isnt a gamer wont buy a handheld but a simple smartphone, and play on it.
> 
> but other then that thats exactly what I think... but for some reason I dont see it happening...


That's not a problem if your dedicated software is hardware specific instead of coded for Android, which is entirely doable. If the games require a specific chip to run and the OS reports that chip as missing, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and since consoles run on dedicated SoC's, it'd be easy to achieve. Tegra exclusives are a good example here. Android allows you to code specifically in C++, using the Android wrapper as a booting mechanism for your native binary.


foob said:


> How? Outside of disappearing/collapsible thumbsticks and disappearing tactile controls, I don't see any gaming portable matching the convenience of any phone that slips in your pocket (without protrusions) or that slips in a thin tablet case. So the question to me is: how would they do it while maintaining the physical dimensions of the typical phone or tablet. No wider. No fatter. Just a convenient. Yet with tactile controls that a 'true gamer' will demand?
> 
> Otherwise it's just another phone / tablet.


Clearly you've missed the 3/DS line entirely then. Or the PSP Go for that matter. Analog sticks can be very easily hidden inside inside case indentations to allow for a slider or clamshell design, it's a matter of case design, hardly an issue. Besides, a console phone would have to be a console first, a phone second - the main purpose is still gaming.


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## Clydefrosch (Feb 11, 2017)

they just need to get rid of the left over oldps4 stock


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## Foxi4 (Feb 11, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> they just need to get rid of the left over oldps4 stock


Those are PS4 Slims, they're not the old-style PS4's.


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> That's not a problem if your dedicated software is hardware specific instead of coded for Android, which is entirely doable. If the games require a specific chip to run and the OS reports that chip as missing, there's nothing anyone can do about it, and since consoles run on dedicated SoC's, it'd be easy to achieve. Tegra exclusives are a good example here. Android allows you to code specifically in C++, using the Android wrapper as a booting mechanism for your native binary.
> Clearly you've missed the 3/DS line entirely then. Or the PSP Go for that matter. Analog sticks can be very easily hidden inside inside case indentations to allow for a slider or clamshell design, it's a matter of case design, hardly an issue. Besides, a console phone would have to be a console first, a phone second - the main purpose is still gaming.


 - tegra software on non tegra hardware.
Im not a specialist, but if they make a conventional processor/gpu, then people will find out how to run it on non-nintendo devices. also out of interest- about the android software, does it run directly on hardware and different architectures just cant run the games or on a software layer? if the first is true then how do normal android games run on tegra deevices, and if the second is true- then why the performance isnt so bad?

also clamshell/slider designs arent popular nowdays, and arent as convenient as  the "one-block" design (idk the real name). that will make them a lot more thick or make the controllers less convenient (yes the 3ds thumb stick aint that great)...


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## foob (Feb 11, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Clearly you've missed the 3/DS line entirely then. Or the PSP Go for that matter. Analog sticks can be very easily hidden inside inside case indentations to allow for a slider or clamshell design, it's a matter of case design, hardly an issue. Besides, a console phone would have to be a console first, a phone second - the main purpose is still gaming.



Several ways tactile controls are an issue:
Putting them in requires room & also adds weight to do it reliably. You either make the screen(s) smaller to fit them in (3DS) for a certain size of device or you have to make a sliding mechanism (PSP Go). Both are less than ideal and both aren't used by 99.99% of phone/tablet users today (let alone desired). A design like this is not ideal for both gaming and practical phone usage - it's a mish-mash of compromises as we can tell from the 3DS analogue sticks and the PSP Go's control design. Plus they are both thicker. A clamshell design and sliding design all adds to thickness of an equivalently-sized phone or tablet.

Size, shape and weight all influence convenience and whether or not something is slipped into your pocket (or not) versus another device that's just more practical (even if it has all the phone and communication apps, any gaming console with tactile controls loses out on convenience). It may not be an issue for some enthusiasts, but I think it's an issue for most of the population.


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## Bonestorm (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> The portable console market is pretty dead- only 2% of gamers game on them. Compare this to smartphone, which iirc has 35% including tablets, and you get the picture that its not that smart business wise to make another portable console...


Absolute nonsense.

The 3DS will sell over 70mil whens all said and done. How exactly is that "pretty dead"

Do i need to list the amount of exclusive games that can only be played on 3DS/DS/PSP/VITA systems?

The people who buy crappy cell phone games are not the same people who buy actual games for portable consoles


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Absolute nonsense.
> 
> The 3DS will sell over 70mil whens all said and done. How exactly is that "pretty dead"
> 
> ...


1. do you really compare the 3ds' sales to smartphone sales? really? it runs for 6 years already and sold 70mil units... please dont compare...
2. I meant the design is dead for mobile phones, nobody will buy a slider/clamshell smartphone nowdays, that will be very thick and heavy... or smaller screen.
3. as all of us can see, the portable gaming is dying. compare the sales of both 3ds and psvita to ds alone if you dont believe me. or to gba. sad but true...
4. even "REAL GAMERS" have different considerations when buying a phone and when buying a console. not everybody will buy a smartphone which is only good for gaming and worse in any other respect...


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## Bonestorm (Feb 11, 2017)

Yeah nothing your saying is making any sense.

A phone is a phone...i have a phone and i've never played a single game on it and i play games everyday. No i don't see portable gaming dying at all actually 70 mil sales is fantastic because those 70 million people are actual gamers who buy software with actual money. The DS sold so much because it had a "gamer" base and a "casual" base the casual base is gone and were left with the 70mil number which is fantastic. Every portable Nintendo releases is not going to sell 150 mil that's completely unreasonable. 

Every portable besides the Vita has sold very well historically...i don't buy this theory at all


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Yeah nothing your saying is making any sense.
> 
> A phone is a phone...i have a phone and i've never played a single game on it and i play games everyday. No i don't see portable gaming dying at all actually 70 mil sales is fantastic because those 70 million people are actual gamers who buy software with actual money. The DS sold so much because it had a "gamer" base and a "casual" base the casual base is gone and were left with the 70mil number which is fantastic. Every portable Nintendo releases is not going to sell 150 mil that's completely unreasonable.
> 
> Every portable besides the Vita has sold very well historically...i don't buy this theory at all


again, compare the 3ds to (pretty much) any portable gaming console that nintendo ever made.... the GBA beat it, and it was running for far less years


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## Bonestorm (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> again, compare the 3ds to (pretty much) any portable gaming console that nintendo ever made.... the GBA beat it, and it was running for far less years


I don't think you understand what i'm saying so let me break it down for you.

Smart phones weren't a thing when the GBC/GBA/DS/PSP were around so a large amount of the "CASUAL" base bought and played on those because what else are they going to play on? now phones are a thing so portables have lost that crowd but the foundation the actual "gamers" are still around. 70 mil sales is fantastic any way you cut it, i understand your trying to compare it to the DS phenomenon but like i just explained that comparison makes no sense.

Nintendo is about the release the strongest portable ever.


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## Deleted User (Feb 11, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> I don't think you understand what i'm saying so let me break it down for you.
> 
> Smart phones weren't a thing when the GBC/GBA/DS/PSP were around so a large amount of the "CASUAL" base bought and played on those because what else are they going to play on? now phones are a thing so portables have lost that crowd but the foundation the actual "gamers" are still around. 70 mil sales is fantastic any way you cut it, i understand your trying to compare it to the DS phenomenon but like i just explained that comparison makes no sense.
> 
> Nintendo is about the release the strongest portable ever.


when the 3ds was released the smartphones weren't a thing as they are now. so some casuals still bought it back then.
i'm comparing it also to gba and gb/c. that's a serious drop.
the switch isn't the most powerful gaming tablet (yes, gaming tablet). you can just search a little to find more tablets that are made for gaming, and are more powerful then the switch. also the switch doesn't have a lot of launch-day titles (or first year titles) that's why not that much people, even Nintendo fanboyz, are going to buy it at launch. and it isn't as powerful as ps4/pc/xb1 so not that much of the gamers will buy it, and I don't see it appealing to casuals...


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## Bonestorm (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> when the 3ds was released the smartphones weren't a thing as they are now. so some casuals still bought it back then.
> i'm comparing it also to gba and gb/c. that's a serious drop.
> the switch isn't the most powerful gaming tablet (yes, gaming tablet). you can just search a little to find more tablets that are made for gaming, and are more powerful then the switch. also the switch doesn't have a lot of launch-day titles (or first year titles) that's why not that much people, even Nintendo fanboyz, are going to buy it at launch. and it isn't as powerful as ps4/pc/xb1 so not that much of the gamers will buy it, and I don't see it appealing to casuals...


smart phones were VERY MUCH a thing in 2011... also no one even remembers how bad the 3ds did in the first year because of how expensive it was with no great launch games

anyway i made my point, which refutes all of the ones you brought up

The Switch is a Nintendo portable console with TV OUT capability's not a tablet. Being shaped like a square or having a touch screen doesn't make it a tablet. I don't think the Switch will do well because it's too expensive and the launch titles are lacking but "power" has nothing to do with it. History has shown time and time again the weaker consoles consistently win console wars sales wise exception being this gen with the PS4. All Nintendo has to do is stay competitive "power" wise so we'll see.


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## Pacheko17 (Feb 11, 2017)

This is pretty good, I feel like grabbing a PS4 now.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> - tegra software on non tegra hardware.
> Im not a specialist, but if they make a conventional processor/gpu, then people will find out how to run it on non-nintendo devices. also out of interest- about the android software, does it run directly on hardware and different architectures just cant run the games or on a software layer? if the first is true then how do normal android games run on tegra deevices, and if the second is true- then why the performance isnt so bad?
> 
> also clamshell/slider designs arent popular nowdays, and arent as convenient as  the "one-block" design (idk the real name). that will make them a lot more thick or make the controllers less convenient (yes the 3ds thumb stick aint that great)...


Not all features are available on non-Tegra GPU's, it depends on the implementation of the technology. Besides, these are still Android binaries, that's not what we were talking about. As for physical design, there is nothing comfortable or convenient about modern phones which are 90% screen and 100% useless - they're a triumph of style over substance. They're far too thin for comfort, introducing a slider would not make them much thicker and would make them a hell of a lot more comfortable to hold.


foob said:


> Several ways tactile controls are an issue:
> Putting them in requires room & also adds weight to do it reliably. You either make the screen(s) smaller to fit them in (3DS) for a certain size of device or you have to make a sliding mechanism (PSP Go). Both are less than ideal and both aren't used by 99.99% of phone/tablet users today (let alone desired). A design like this is not ideal for both gaming and practical phone usage - it's a mish-mash of compromises as we can tell from the 3DS analogue sticks and the PSP Go's control design. Plus they are both thicker. A clamshell design and sliding design all adds to thickness of an equivalently-sized phone or tablet.
> 
> Size, shape and weight all influence convenience and whether or not something is slipped into your pocket (or not) versus another device that's just more practical (even if it has all the phone and communication apps, any gaming console with tactile controls loses out on convenience). It may not be an issue for some enthusiasts, but I think it's an issue for most of the population.


It's not a compromise, it's a different form factor. There's no unwritten rule saying that all phones necessarily need to be thin, buttonless slabs - that's not appealing to the target customer *or* fit for purpose. You're saying that this is an "issue" when it could be better-described as a niche. Long story short, it's entirely possible to merge the two devices, and very easily at that. A "gamer phone" could shake things up in the industry.


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## DarthDub (Feb 11, 2017)

$250 would be amazing...If it was the Pro.


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## LinksAsleeping (Feb 12, 2017)

Robert McCoy said:


> Well. I picked it up from Walmart.



Give them a call, you have nothing to lose, and $50 to gain.


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## foob (Feb 12, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> A "gamer phone" could shake things up in the industry.


Tactile controls have no place on a phone in today's market though. So we disagree. I think acceptance will be extremely low (much lower than a dedicated device). Niche is right. Very small niche. There are too many compromises with both phone design and gaming design when converging the two, in my opinion. Plus it's been attempted by various companies, NOKIA included. Not to mention price. People want more than a rudimentary camera in their phones, for instance. Particularly when paying top-dollar. So the Vita and DSi/3DS approach to cameras (ie. cheap) would have to be changed too. I'd hate to see the cost of the device & I know that I'd hate to use it.

I think if it were that simple to converge the two, it would have been done already - successfully. Instead we have a string of failures. A dedicated device would do much better (and has so far).


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## Foxi4 (Feb 12, 2017)

foob said:


> Tactile controls have no place on a phone in today's market though. So we disagree. I think acceptance will be extremely low (much lower than a dedicated device). Niche is right. Very small niche. There are too many compromises with both phone design and gaming design when converging the two, in my opinion. Plus it's been attempted by various companies, NOKIA included. Not to mention price. People want more than a rudimentary camera in their phones, for instance. Particularly when paying top-dollar. So the Vita and DSi/3DS approach to cameras (ie. cheap) would have to be changed too. I'd hate to see the cost of the device & I know that I'd hate to use it.
> 
> I think if it were that simple to converge the two, it would have been done already - successfully. Instead we have a string of failures. A dedicated device would do much better (and has so far).


Tactile controls have no place on a phone today? The number one, primary complaint of every single person who's ever gamed on a phone is the *lack of tactile controls*. The issue is so big that it spawned an industry in and out of itself - the industry of detachable USB/Bluetooth controllers and keyboards for phones. The supposed "additional cost" is next to zero - pre-existing phone hardware is more than sufficient to support gaming, it's merely lacking buttons, which cost pennies. It works both ways - a portable console has everything it needs to support average smartphone functionality *except* a GSM module, which costs a buck if you buy them in bulk. You are correct, it has been tried before, however the technology wasn't quite there yet. Just because a certain design failed doesn't mean that the concept was bad - it might've just been a bad design. I sincerely don't understand what your issue is here - all that separates a contemporary smartphone from a gaming console is software support and buttons, the latter can be added at very little expense in terms of unit thickness thanks to tactile domes.


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## foob (Feb 12, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> Tactile controls have no place on a phone today? The number one, primary complaint of every single person who's ever gamed on a phone is the *lack of tactile controls*.



Let me clarify.

Of course gamers want tactile controls. It's just that designing them in & attracting *the masses* to them in a phone is - _I think _- a heavily compromised situation that will not gain any *mass market* acceptance - let alone be profitable for any company that attempts this. It's convergence gone too far, basically. That's what I meant by tactile controls have no place on a phone today: not for the masses & not for the companies who make them. In other words, they don't sell. And won't.

Think about this: you want a decent gaming device but you also want a decent camera (_not an afterthought camera like we currently see in dedicated portables_). A dedicated camera is one of several things people want at x price today. And you want a decent, convenient size yet that has a large enough screen (which today is pretty easy to get) but also want very ergonomic controls for long hours of gaming without pain. Speaking of hours of gaming, how is that battery life? And you want a decent all-round phone that doesn't make you look like a dork or make you feel like one, nor compromise with size/ weight/ camera specs / responsiveness, etc.

A device with tactile controls add to manufacturing complexity & servicing costs. And probably adds a lot more risk to the company regarding patents too.

Not only do you have more design challenges, you have serious pricing challenges - assuming you want to attract the masses and be profitable. What price point do you want to hit? And who will be buying your machine? Will they buy a competitor product instead (which already has heaps of games?). What about games pricing? If you want to make your own games (not do the typical Android/iOS thing) then you have to attract third parties too. Lots have tried and failed. I think it's one of the hardest things to do - converging gaming and phone and being successful at it. I'm not talking about add-ons, I'm talking about all-in-one devices that are both convenient and functional phones while being convenient and functional & comfortable gaming devices with good battery life & other specs. Without sticking out like a sore thumb or being harder to pocket. And yet being affordable.

I don't think it's easy to pull off at all. There are way too many challenges. I'd much rather be using a dedicated device selling for a reasonable sum & not trying to be all things to everybody.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 12, 2017)

foob said:


> Let me clarify.
> 
> Of course gamers want tactile controls. It's just that designing them in & attracting *the masses* to them in a phone is - _I think _- a heavily compromised situation that will not gain any *mass market* acceptance - let alone be profitable for any company that attempts this. It's convergence gone too far, basically. That's what I meant by tactile controls have no place on a phone today: not for the masses & not for the companies who make them. In other words, they don't sell. And won't.
> 
> ...


That's not how the phone market works - it's not a spaghetti factory. The only phone designed to appeal to the mass market is the iPhone, and even Apple has distanced itself from the "one size fits all" approach by introducing the C and Plus ranges. Phones are designed for demographics, not mass appeal - "spec phones" are for hardware geeks, budget phones are for mums who don't care, Blackberries are for business etc. - gamers are a viable demographic that could be marketed to effectively. It doesn't take much to figure that out either - the PS4 is on track to be selling as well or better than the PS2, the demand for dedicated gaming platforms is there. If you could take that experience on the go through 4G connectivity with an adequate control scheme and add exclusive games to boot, I'd be first in line to pick a handset like that. The current trend in smartphones is detrimental to users - the race to the thinnest slab is a race to the bottom, as the size restraints are reflected by low battery life and underperformed SoC's due to poor cooling. Making phones just a little bit thicker would improve functionality tremendously, it just takes one brave designer to actually go through with an idea like that.


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## foob (Feb 12, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> That's not how the phone market works - it's not a spaghetti factory. The only phone designed to appeal to the mass market is the iPhone,


To me it's a niche. It just happened to introduce some finger-friendly technologies years before anyone else and also happened to benefit from coming off the back of the iPods. So it gained tremendous success. Other phones are mass-market much more than this boutique range of phones.



Foxi4 said:


> and even Apple has distanced itself from the "one size fits all" approach by introducing the C and Plus ranges.


They had to; sales are down & the competition is up. Plus those billions in offshore profits that are never repatriated to avoid the tax man & those tax havens must be doing some good some of the time.



Foxi4 said:


> Phones are designed for demographics, not mass appeal - "spec phones" are for hardware geeks, budget phones are for mums who don't care, Blackberries are for business etc.


Phones have become so commoditized today. That _'this phone is for business users, this is for entertianment-centric people, this is for email_'..etc)...that fake segmentation stuff was old back when NOKIA were doing it - trying to segment users by the pre-installed apps on the phone. Sony Ericsson and the rest were at it too with their Walkman branded phones, camera-centric phones, etc. It's forced segmentation & it was rubbish back then & thank god we see less of this fakery now. Blackberry are fighting for survival, so I don't know what 'business' they are in today if they don't get more mainstream success. Less and less people are seeing their 'business' interests taken care of with Blackberries.



Foxi4 said:


> - gamers are a viable demographic that could be marketed to effectively. It doesn't take much to figure that out either - the PS4 is on track to be selling as well or better than the PS2, the demand for dedicated gaming platforms is there.


Of course it's there. But the PS4 is a home console. Not a phone.



Foxi4 said:


> If you could take that experience on the go through 4G connectivity with an adequate control scheme and add exclusive games to boot, I'd be first in line to pick a handset like that.


I'd love to see 1) what form it takes 2) what price it sells for 3) what battery life it has  4) whether or not enough people have this 'enthusiast' type of thinking to make the product profitable. The track record so far is filled with various attemps full of failure. I think we'd have at least one popular gaming phone now if this were viable.



Foxi4 said:


> The current trend in smartphones is detrimental to users - the race to the thinnest slab is a race to the bottom, as the size restraints are reflected by low battery life and underperformed SoC's due to poor cooling. Making phones just a little bit thicker would improve functionality tremendously, it just takes one brave designer to actually go through with an idea like that.



Agree (to some extent). Though thinnest is not really my point. My point is that once users are used to thin they often don't go fat. Unless they have a specific reason to. Most uses are actually satisfied, I would say. The market has matured and tech has improved a fair bit. Gaming controls make just about every device less appealing to hold and use as a phone - from budget devices to higher-end designs. I think designing half-decent tactical controls makes the phone experience worse. And having a half-decent phone experience makes the gaming side worse. In my opinion these two should never meet because they work against each other. And I think the market has proven it so far. Though it would be interesting to see if someone has the guts to do it again.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 12, 2017)

foob said:


> To me it's a niche. It just happened to introduce some finger-friendly technologies years before anyone else and also happened to benefit from coming off the back of the iPods. So it gained tremendous success. Other phones are mass-market much more than this boutique range of phones.
> 
> They had to; sales are down & the competition is up. Plus those billions in offshore profits that are never repatriated to avoid the tax man & those tax havens must be doing some good some of the time.
> 
> ...


Gamers are gamers - you provide them with games and they'll pick up your platform. They go outside too, and many would like to take their gaming with them. As I said before, past performance is not indicative of future results - previous attempts failed because of poor execution, not because the idea is bad. In fact, gaming on smartphones is inevitable - people want all-in-one devices. Phones already consumed PDA's, PNA's, media players and, to a large extent, cameras for amateur use - portable consoles are next. They're powerful portable computers that could be used for gaming and are currently underutilised. We'll have to agree to disagree on this so that we don't detract from the conversation at hand, we're straying really off-topic here.


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## XDel (Feb 12, 2017)

Can I take it with me?


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## foob (Feb 12, 2017)

Foxi4 said:


> In fact, gaming on smartphones is inevitable - people want all-in-one devices. Phones already consumed PDA's, PNA's, media players and, to a large extent, cameras for amateur use - portable consoles are next. They're powerful portable computers that could be used for gaming and are currently underutilised. We'll have to agree to disagree on this so that we don't detract from the conversation at hand, we're straying really off-topic here.


I agree we all want it. I just wonder what form that would take. Because I can't even imagine one being good without making the other side bad. And vice versa. With cameras, often the typical tactile controls and dials are not integrated into phones and tablets - for obvious reasons. Here we are asking tactile controls to be integrated. So that's why I'm negative on this sort of convergence. Doing so takes away from the other tasks. It doesn't always, but it does here, I think. 

Anyway, Sony massages PS4 prices. This is good


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## Foxi4 (Feb 12, 2017)

foob said:


> I agree we all want it. I just wonder what form that would take. Because I can't even imagine one being good without making the other side bad. And vice versa. With cameras, often the typical tactile controls and dials are not integrated into phones and tablets - for obvious reasons. Here we are asking tactile controls to be integrated. So that's why I'm negative on this sort of convergence. Doing so takes away from the other tasks. It doesn't always, but it does here, I think.
> 
> Anyway, Sony massages PS4 prices. This is good


My point was that the controls can be hidden. Hell, even detachable - look at the Switch. I'm sure it could be done in a smart way. Phones adapted to the functionality they took over, they would change once more once they reach the next point of convergence, at least that's what I believe. The phones we use now look nothing like phones from 10 years ago, and in another 10 years future phones will look nothing like the ones we use now.

Speaking of phones from a decade ago, I was always partial towards the Sidekick form factor - it was very functional. It'd work for a console, and if the exposed buttons would bother users, just hide them under the screen just like the keyboard - there's plenty of space there.


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## Deleted User (Feb 12, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> smart phones were VERY MUCH a thing in 2011... also no one even remembers how bad the 3ds did in the first year because of how expensive it was with no great launch games
> 
> anyway i made my point, which refutes all of the ones you brought up
> 
> The Switch is a Nintendo portable console with TV OUT capability's not a tablet. Being shaped like a square or having a touch screen doesn't make it a tablet. I don't think the Switch will do well because it's too expensive and the launch titles are lacking but "power" has nothing to do with it. History has shown time and time again the weaker consoles consistently win console wars sales wise exception being this gen with the PS4. All Nintendo has to do is stay competitive "power" wise so we'll see.


"My" galaxy tab ISNT A TABLET, but a touch screen-enabled square- shaped portable console with TV-Out capabilities. How silly does it sound to you? When you add a bt controller to it, some of which look and act like the switch's joy-cons the only diffrence from the switch is the price and game library. And as I see it, the tab takes it as of right now, because- look at the 3 games that the switch got- and compare with the MILIONS that the tab has. Dont say "android games are shitttt"- even if only 0.1% of them are good AAA games its still more then 1000 games, and I suspect there are far more then that. And I dont even talk about the nvidia shield tablet. I didnt only talk about the power of the hardware- but also about the software. What the switch has to offer (from what were shown right now, in the first year)? Zelda, mario oddysey and a milking simulator? And a few indie multiplats? Also times change, now the devs prefer a good hardware to work with and gamers - good graphics. Of course, not more then the fun factor, but its not a small thing. there are lots of devs (indies especially) who use lots of computing power for their games and dont want to optimize it for every platform (see minecraft, no mans sky etc... ) so they just wont port it to weaker console instead of optimizing it. 

The portable consoles will die if they wont merge with the smartphones or do something. 

I say that the switch is a tablet with hdmi and not home consike with portable capabilities because its leans more toward the smartphones and tablets then toward console/pc power-wise. Its comparable to ps3 which was long ago beaten by smartphone processors. You cant make a true portable with the processing power of a stationary device- you either make it hot, heavy (for battery) or short battery life. The switch isnt an exception.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Feb 12, 2017)

Bye bye Switch. Honestly, just get the superior PS4 device with still better hardware than the pathetic Nintendo 2017 console. Nintendo is literally dead after the Wii U failure and the Switch being on par if not worse than the Wii U (less 3rd party support, less launch titles, paid online, crappy multiplayer by default, no innovative games, barely multiplayer games, cumbersome friend list system, more expensive accessoires, etc.). Inform yourself before you ride the "The Switch is going to save Nintendo" train


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## DeslotlCL (Feb 13, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Bye bye Switch. Honestly, just get the superior PS4 device with still better hardware than the pathetic Nintendo 2017 console. Nintendo is literally dead after the Wii U failure and the Switch being on par if not worse than the Wii U (less 3rd party support, less launch titles, paid online, crappy multiplayer by default, no innovative games, barely multiplayer games, cumbersome friend list system, more expensive accessoires, etc.). Inform yourself before you ride the "The Switch is going to save Nintendo" train


This. Just this.


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## Bonestorm (Feb 13, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> Bye bye Switch. Honestly, just get the superior PS4 device with still better hardware than the pathetic Nintendo 2017 console. Nintendo is literally dead after the Wii U failure and *the Switch being on par if not worse than the Wii U *(less 3rd party support, less launch titles, paid online, crappy multiplayer by default, no innovative games, barely multiplayer games, cumbersome friend list system, more expensive accessoires, etc.). Inform yourself before you ride the "The Switch is going to save Nintendo" train


Why do people just make stuff up and past it as fact?


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Feb 13, 2017)

natanelho said:


> and two HD rumble dildos with extra- smooth vibrations


Soft-core/hentai-like games with the glorious HD Rumble of the Joy-Cons would bring most of Vita's customers to the Switch.

Grab that, Nintendo!


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## Bonestorm (Feb 13, 2017)

foob said:


> *To me it's a niche.* It just happened to introduce some finger-friendly technologies years before anyone else and also happened to benefit from coming off the back of the iPods. So it gained tremendous success. Other phones are mass-market much more than this boutique range of phones.
> 
> 
> They had to; sales are down & the competition is up. Plus those billions in offshore profits that are never repatriated to avoid the tax man & those tax havens must be doing some good some of the time.
> ...


Did you just say the iPhone was a niche?... LOL

People live in their own little worlds sometimes...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



natanelho said:


> "My" galaxy tab ISNT A TABLET, but a touch screen-enabled square- shaped portable console with TV-Out capabilities. How silly does it sound to you? When you add a bt controller to it, some of which look and act like the switch's joy-cons the only diffrence from the switch is the price and game library. And as I see it, the tab takes it as of right now, because- look at the 3 games that the switch got- and compare with the MILIONS that the tab has. Dont say "android games are shitttt"- even if only 0.1% of them are good AAA games its still more then 1000 games, and I suspect there are far more then that. And I dont even talk about the nvidia shield tablet. I didnt only talk about the power of the hardware- but also about the software. What the switch has to offer (from what were shown right now, in the first year)? Zelda, mario oddysey and a milking simulator? And a few indie multiplats? Also times change, now the devs prefer a good hardware to work with and gamers - good graphics. Of course, not more then the fun factor, but its not a small thing. there are lots of devs (indies especially) who use lots of computing power for their games and dont want to optimize it for every platform (see minecraft, no mans sky etc... ) so they just wont port it to weaker console instead of optimizing it.
> 
> The portable consoles will die if they wont merge with the smartphones or do something.
> 
> I say that the switch is a tablet with hdmi and not home consike with portable capabilities because its leans more toward the smartphones and tablets then toward console/pc power-wise. Its comparable to ps3 which was long ago beaten by smartphone processors. You cant make a true portable with the processing power of a stationary device- you either make it hot, heavy (for battery) or short battery life. The switch isnt an exception.


I would take 1 Nintendo game over 1000 android/ios titles. 

Complete lunacy to think they even compare to each other


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Feb 13, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Why do people just make stuff up and past it as fact?


According to the facts that's the outcome so no, it's not made up if you bothered reading the rest of the post. The Switch is worse than the Wii U in many aspects and better in other hence about equal if not worse overall.


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## Bonestorm (Feb 13, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> According to the facts that's the outcome so no, it's not made up if you bothered reading the rest of the post. The Switch is worse than the Wii U in many aspects and better in other hence about equal if not worse overall.


Please tell me one way the Wii U is better than the Switch, tech wise? please i would love to know.


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Feb 14, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Please tell me one way the Wii U is better than the Switch, tech wise? please i would love to know.


None because by default it uses more modern tech but that's besides the point, every console is expected to advance technologically which still doesn't make it better overall. Games like Mario Kart 8 have better graphics than Mario Kart Wii but other then that it's better at virtually nothing making it the worse game.


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## Pachee (Feb 14, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Why do people just make stuff up and past it as fact?


Hardware wise the Switch is a Wii U 1.3, just read the Tegra x1 specs. Ram speed is almost 1:1.

And, considering price/no Gamepad/Zelda also on wii u, yeah, only the most desperate nintendo fanboys are going to bite on a switch. If Nintendo didn't forbid Tecmo from releasing Fire Emblem Warriors on the Wii U, it would have been even worse. (I greatly hope that dick move of skipping Wii U and releasing on the shitty N3DS will bite them back )

If this thing is already having trouble to run a generic indie sandbox Wii U cartoon labeled as Zelda at [email protected], think how hard it will be for it to run anything made for the PS4/Xbone... wait, you don't even need to imagine that, just look at that Skyrim trailer on Switch lol. 
Despite what is left of the Gawker crowd and its desperate members at kotaku/polygon/etc screaming "Switch is all you wanted" while fearing for their jobs if they lose yet another source of clickbaits, no sane player is going to pass his pc/ps4/xbone to play downgraded ports on a expensive 2015 Nintendo tablet.


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## Bonestorm (Feb 14, 2017)

Pachee said:


> Hardware wise the Switch is a Wii U 1.3, just read the Tegra x1 specs. Ram speed is almost 1:1.
> 
> And, considering price/no Gamepad/Zelda also on wii u, yeah, only the most desperate nintendo fanboys are going to bite on a switch. If Nintendo didn't forbid Tecmo from releasing Fire Emblem Warriors on the Wii U, it would have been even worse. (I greatly hope that dick move of skipping Wii U and releasing on the shitty N3DS will bite them back )
> 
> ...


Yes, fantastic point.

Not completely ridiculous at all.


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## Pachee (Feb 14, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Yes, fantastic point.
> 
> Not completely ridiculous at all.


Take the Zelda characters out and you have a generic indie sandboxing game in which you can almost go straight for the final boss. Where is the Zelda in that?
Same thing if you take Zelda characters out of Hyrule Warriors, you have a generic musou game.


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## geodeath (Feb 14, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> History has shown time and time again the weaker consoles consistently win console wars sales wise exception being this gen with the PS4.



Excuse me, but this is not right at all. The Snes was more powerful, yet it won the race. The N64 was the more powerful of the 3 at the time, but lost, not because of power though, to the Ps1 for many reasons to list here (nintendo's strict licensing did not help, choice of cartridges too), then the Gamecube was still not the most powerful one or the weakest but still did not finish 1st because of the sheer supremacy of the Ps2 line up and support. The wii was hugely successful not because of low or high power again, but because it sold to many different target groups that would not buy video games at all, plus motion controls at the time was 'the thing'. 

So not sure where this "history" has shown us the weaker consoles consistently win console wars. Console wars are won by library alone. All of the winners in each generation had an excellent software library. I am going back to my retro games these days and trying to collect all of the games i did not buy back then and want to do now, and i can very easily see why the snes, ps1, ps2 were the winners of the game. It is their library. But the simple fact people forget these days, is that less power today means EXCLUSION from AAA titles, simply because you do not "fit" in the roadmap and no self respecting investor will put millions towards a half assed port that might not get their return back, as we have seen time and again.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



foob said:


> Let me clarify.
> 
> Of course gamers want tactile controls. It's just that designing them in & attracting *the masses* to them in a phone is - _I think _- a heavily compromised situation that will not gain any *mass market* acceptance - let alone be profitable for any company that attempts this. It's convergence gone too far, basically. That's what I meant by tactile controls have no place on a phone today: not for the masses & not for the companies who make them. In other words, they don't sell. And won't.
> 
> ...



Nintendo could really make their own phone with no attached controllers, then you attach the joycons to the left and right - BOOM.
Nope, instead, they will half-ass a home console and provide a portable with a TV out. A nintendo phone with joycon attachment possibility. Yes please. Non gamers can stick to their phones. Gamers would pick this up in a heartbeat, Nintendo could profit massively from their back catalog in an app-store included with the phone and we all know how nice controllers nintendo makes...


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## death360 (Feb 14, 2017)

Meh I'm happy with my PC and XOne


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## foob (Feb 14, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Did you just say the iPhone was a niche?... LOL
> 
> People live in their own little worlds sometimes...



Yes, we do.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/03/goog...early-9-in-every-10-smartphones-using-it.html

Obviously this depends on your definition of niche, but to me it's always been a range of hideously overpriced phones. Phones that are popular, granted, but still not dominating OS-wise.

And it's obviously not fair comparing one range of phones with the rest of the market consisting of several manufacturers, but OS-wise, the sales speak for themselves. The rest of the manufacturers hit every price point imaginable and are generally far more 'open' for a spyware OS. Apple is a far less open spyware OS and their phones are far more 'boutique' to me. Always have been. Niche might not be your favourite term, but to me they are. OS-wise, they make up a relatively tiny portion of the smartphone OS market.


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## Bonestorm (Feb 14, 2017)

foob said:


> Yes, we do.
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/03/goog...early-9-in-every-10-smartphones-using-it.html
> 
> Obviously this depends on your definition of niche, but to me it's always been a range of hideously overpriced phones. Phones that are popular, granted, but still not dominating OS-wise.
> ...


Yes, i understand you don't like iphones that's why your saying what your saying. 

iPhones being niche is probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard on here even if you don't like iphones.

BTW android phones are fucking terrible. But to each his own.


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## WiiUBricker (Feb 14, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> The Switch is worse than the Wii U in many aspects and better in other hence about equal if not worse overall.


Can you point out at least three aspects in which the Switch is worse than the Wii U and three aspects in which the Switch is better than the Wii U?


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## Deleted User (Feb 15, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Did you just say the iPhone was a niche?... LOL
> 
> People live in their own little worlds sometimes...
> 
> ...


Hmm maybe youre right, 4 gta titles and minecraft (sorry, I cant remember more from the top of my head) are WORSE then one zelda game and a milking simulator

And people who have 300$ for spending will always compare all the options they have/things they need even from diffrent categories- a new smartphone/ that switch/ some other shit
People dont have infinite cash, of course people will compare things...

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Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Soft-core/hentai-like games with the glorious HD Rumble of the Joy-Cons would bring most of Vita's customers to the Switch.
> 
> Grab that, Nintendo!


Is that really a thing? I was just kidding, nintendo! Dont why you always take things literaly?


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Feb 15, 2017)

natanelho said:


> Dont why you always take things literaly?


I thought the "_grab that_" would have made it obvious.


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## Spider_Man (Feb 15, 2017)

i dont think sony or ms have anything to worry about, the switch is yet again another system with weak hardware and its storage.... 32Gb is just a laughing stock.

sony already have the lead this gen, ms are doing good also.

nintendo better hope that this doesnt repeat like the wii u did (tho i cant really see a difference), merging portable console market with home console market is a big risk, nintendo are hoping merging the two will allow them to boast high sales targets.... which to be fair looking at it logically is worse, because now its not just one market sector that the shareholders would be interested in, say xxx sales home console, xxx sales portable, theyre now combined.

this system really needs to be a success considering the fact that it is nintendo's 2nd console during the same console generation..... if it doesnt get its heels stuck firmly into the ground and actually provide better third party support (i do not expect this to happen), come the launch of sony/ms's next gen console, the switch (which is already inferior to the ps4/xbx1) will again be left behind..... so nintendo will have to release another next gen system early...... reminds me of sega rushing to be first one on the market.


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## Imacaredformy2ds (Feb 15, 2017)

Retroboy said:


> i dont think sony or ms have anything to worry about, the switch is yet again another system with weak hardware and its storage.... 32Gb is just a laughing stock.
> 
> sony already have the lead this gen, ms are doing good also.
> 
> ...


Do you even know what you're talking about kappa?
There's some things wrong with what you said there, but for the most part I agree with you


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## Spider_Man (Feb 15, 2017)

Imacaredformy2ds said:


> Do you even know what you're talking about kappa?
> There's some things wrong with what you said there, but for the most part I agree with you



Not sure whats wrong with it?

The wii u didnt get teh dev support for the fact it was old hardware and their focus was on the new hardware (PS4/XBX1) so what support it had, was last gen ports.

If the console doesnt improve its support, then it will reflect on sales, something nintendo do not want to admit the truth.

All the fans and lovers seem to buy the BS that all of a sudden gamers didnt know the wii u was a new console, that it was an addon to the wii..... yet Playstation and Xbox gamers never had this problem.... Its just an excuse because if they stated the real reason to its shareholders, then they wont back the company or invest in them.

I cant see anything different that nintendo have done, they have copied again off the tablet concept.... even its design, already tablets on the market exactly like it.

I think people will defend it saying its the first console that you can take with you on the move, which is rather risky if its to get damaged.

I know regardless i wouldnt buy the console, simply because i know nintendo never provide what i want to play, now i wouldnt want to pay that price even if i wanted the console, just to play mario/zelda and other 3+ games on the move.


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## DeslotlCL (Feb 16, 2017)

Retroboy said:


> Not sure whats wrong with it?
> 
> The wii u didnt get teh dev support for the fact it was old hardware and their focus was on the new hardware (PS4/XBX1) so what support it had, was last gen ports.
> 
> ...


This.


Pachee said:


> Hardware wise the Switch is a Wii U 1.3, just read the Tegra x1 specs. Ram speed is almost 1:1.
> 
> And, considering price/no Gamepad/Zelda also on wii u, yeah, only the most desperate nintendo fanboys are going to bite on a switch. If Nintendo didn't forbid Tecmo from releasing Fire Emblem Warriors on the Wii U, it would have been even worse. (I greatly hope that dick move of skipping Wii U and releasing on the shitty N3DS will bite them back )
> 
> ...


And this.

Come on people. The switch still looks like it will perform better than the wii u, but are you that desesperate to pay full retail price for one? For only one or two new titles? For a port of the previous console? For a sequel for a game that looks almost the same than the previous one? (yet people trash on cod... how ironic). Can't you wait for a bundle at a lower price?

FFS, the switch will cost less and i mean LESS if you wait till the holidays or next year, so you will have more games to judge the console and see if you really want one... AND AT A LOWER PRICE!

see?


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## foob (Feb 16, 2017)

Bonestorm said:


> Yes, i understand you don't like iphones that's why your saying what your saying.


Quite the contrary. I link to that because it's fact.



Bonestorm said:


> iPhones being niche is probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard on here even if you don't like iphones.


When the smartphone market is around 90% android, I don't know what you can call iOS but a niche. By extension, iPhones. I couldn't give 3 shakes about fanboy arguments about which is better. Both are modern spyware for muppets as far as I'm concerned. iPhones were always priced and marketed as 'premium' devices, so I don't think they can penetrate into the market as much as they could.



Bonestorm said:


> BTW android phones are fucking terrible. But to each his own.


Yes, indeed. It seems you got hurt at some of my opinions about iPhones, which is why you responded. I think by default both are terrible: terrible spyware; terribly restrictive; terrible standard spyware apps from the OS manufacturers and others. Except one has a little more freedom & choice (if you like to tinker), both in terms of hardware choices and software.


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