# The Future is Going to Suck



## Hop2089 (May 9, 2012)

> And I don’t just mean because you’re going to lose your hair and put on a few pounds – here’s why gaming is set to get a lot worse.
> 
> *Sony Can’t Afford To Take Big Risks*
> Sony spent billions making the cell chip for the PS3 and sunk further billions into selling the console at a loss. Sony can’t afford to do that again after four years of heavy losses. The company also no longer employs anyone like Ken Kutaragi, who used his position and power to create an amazing device seemingly without taking profits into consideration. That’s why rumors suggest the PS4 will basically be a PC, and not even a very impressive one.
> ...



Source

I'm not too concerned about the PS4's specs if those rumors are true it won't be as bad as they think.  I'm semi-impressed with the Wii-U and not impressed with MS console.

As for used games, I'm an importer and no longer deal with the used market, but I'm still not happy at the fact that the Next Gen may be blocking used games, not all of us are rich.  The used game market is a main reason consoles sell especially in the intermediate and long term.

Singleplayer dying is not really a concern for me since there will be offerings of this in Japan for many gens to come, however elsewhere seeing it go is disappointing, I like singleplayer games especially RPGs, the things that should be online only are Monster Hunter Style games like PSO and Ragnarok, it's nearly impossible to play those well with out a partner or 2-3 other people.  Everything else should have online as an option, not a requirement.  Singleplayer passes are bullshit and uncalled for, the practice of online and singleplayer passes should be banned.

Subscriptions, I do not like them when they are required, optional ones like PS+ are ok and welcome, you can play online for free, but required subscriptions like Live eventually going on the PSN and Nintendo Wi-Fi, it's uncalled for.

Game costs are going to go up no surprise, but this will be at the cost of innovation because devs don't want to take a few risks which is bad on both markets, good innovation means more customers wanting to play your games and there's a danger of oversaturation (FPS in the West, uninnovative RPGs and VNs in Japan, oh and it's got worse with the VNs, they are going overboard with them on handhelds especially).  This could lead to a third video game crash.

Social games well the good news is that in Japan they may be cutback due to the compu-gacha ban if it passes, however in the West no such law exists and devs might leave the console industry for the social gaming market since it is profitable due to the item transaction profits.  There needs to be a crackdown in the West, it's cutting into the innovation potential of the consoles.

"West is sadly best", I strongly disagree, it's "West is almost completely uninteresting", There are no western games that give me any interest whatsoever for next gen heck Western games that interest me are few and far between this gen.  I expect it to be zero next gen, I'm disappointed beyond belief.


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## notmeanymore (May 9, 2012)

> *Developing Next-Gen Games Will Be Even More Expensive*
> In 1982, Namco spent approximately $100,000 (now around $237,000) on _Pac-Man_. PS1 games cost around a million dollars, PS2 5-7 million and PS3 15-30 million for the average title. Logic dictates that next-gen dev costs will be even higher – after all, better detail, more complicated AI, more realistic engines all require more developers and longer dev cycles. More expensive games means that there will be less titles, possibly higher prices, and far less risk taking (innovation).


This is one of the biggest factors in the rise of indie developers.
Indies keep the production costs small to keep the game price small. If Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo maximize on this growing culture in the coming generation, they've got a new cash cow to milk, and a way to get their hands on Apple's money.


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## Rydian (May 9, 2012)

1 - Well maybe Sony should pay some attention to what people want?

2 - This is going to suck.  It's not just passes, there's tons of ways to make used games not be as much fun (such as non-deleteable saves).

3 - This generally ties into wanting to make things a service instead of a good, because then they can make you pay more than once.

4 - Yeah Freemium can bite a donkey's turd as far as I'm concerned the way it's heading.  It was a good idea in principle, but when the paid features became "core" instead of "extra", it went to shit.

5 - yar.

6 - Yet indie games made at home can rack up a million dollars or more?  The gaming industry is becoming like the movie industry, companies think tossing more money at something means it'll be a better product.  There are some things where more money spent actually does give good returns (such as advertising, which way too many games don't do on TV and such even once), but a lot of the budgets are retarded.

7 - Apple's like, making it's own NES thing here.  Small games that can be surprisingly-fun to play without million-dollar budgets.

8 - People buy what they like to play, but yeah the way some companies shovel out sequels without many changes is sort of annoying.

9 - I sorta' agree on the graphics part.

10 - Yeah this kind of deceptive advertising irks me.

11 - Meh.  If it gets people moving and it's fun to play, more power to it.  Of course it needs fun games first...


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## alphamule (May 9, 2012)

"Sony Can’t Afford To Take Big Risks"
Hmm, they should sell modified versions of their chips.  You'd be surprised how much people would pay to be able to use them in certain applications.  Then again, they'd probably find themselves competing against their own silicon.

"It’s Going To Be Hard To Be A Used Gamer"
It's going to be hard to sell games at $60+, then.

"The Death of Singleplayer"
Ditto.  This combined with the next two will likely be the death of selling $60+ games.  Remember:  People in Australia pay at least twice that for the exact same game.

There's a resemblance to the people claiming calculators would make there be no new engineers and mathematics but the computer lets people learn even FASTER and some major parts of number theory depend on computers simply because it would take billions of years for humans to do.  Who knows, maybe multiplayer will improve a lot and they'll find a happy medium between "need an army to enjoy" and "sit in your box and play".

"Developing Next-Gen Games Will Be Even More Expensive
Self-induced pain.  Sigh, and there's not much to do.  Plenty of blame to go around for this one.  Buyers, sellers, makers, investors...  I guess the only solution is either to reuse a lot of the effort or depend on AI to write most of the game.  (LOL, Westworld was a great movie and Star Trek:TNG was a good show but this is not likely to happen anytime soon)

"The Apple Has Landed"  Even Apple is facing some stiff competition.  And this is even with all their market share.  I'll be curious to see how Apple handles this in the next 5 years.  We'll see if Apple drops the ball or rides this for all it's worth.  History has shown both happen to them.  

"What Is Wrong With People?"  Just the way it works.  I never got why people paid full price for each Madden or NHL release on the SNES.  We always just rented it to play our favorite or the most recent season.

"West Is Sadly Best"  How is this bad in and of itself?  And this is highly subjective.  I grew up on the Apple II and other systems like that and practically all the games were from North America or Europe with the rare exception of stuff like arcade games such as Pac-Man.  No one can own a market forever and there's always some specialization.  What made me so happy with the SNES was how much better the gameplay was compared to the NES and Atari's.  The graphics were practically identical to an Apple IIgs as well - this was a major thing for a console back then - it was as good as a computer and without all the load times or failing discs!  The cartridges were a damn site better than the NES so far as reliability goes, as well.

The big problem I see is mentioned above.  The fact that the games... mostly look the same, mostly play the same, are barely different than all the "me, too" console games, and just generally seem like less fun versions of books and movies.  It's one thing to have similar controls - it's another to make the entire game seem like it could have been made at the same time and place, and by the same team.  Remember the Atari 2600?  Don't let this happen, people!    At least on the plus side, I remember how the industry rebounded with 'outsider' Japanese help.  NES, SNES, Genesis, Sega CD...  At the time, these were obviously way better than the Atari, hardware wise.  They still had the 90% of games that you'd only rent for a weekend and then never want to play again, but at least it wasn't 9*9*%!


"Facebook My Tweet And Share It With Your Circle"  And they wonder why people release hacks for stuff like that.  It'll only get harder as they find a financial incentive to screw us.

Video:  Haha, that's so funny and it's not even supposed to be.  I see an untapped market in selling gym software.

Oh, and GOTCHA!  Meh, they'll just switch to a trade-in points system.  You get the items that will only help you do it easier, instead of giving you a 'lottery ticket/chance'.  Say, they merely make it less boring by effectively doubling ingame money.  The real reason for this is gambling addiction.  Random rewards are actually more addicting than surefire ones.  This is classic *operatant* conditioning ala Skinner.


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## awssk8er (May 9, 2012)

I agree with most of the points you named. 

As long as my console can play great single player games, I'll be happy. If not, looks like I'll be sticking to my Wii and previous generation consoles.


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## SpaceJump (May 9, 2012)

The best thing for Sony and MS is to sit down and decide together to not release any "Next-Gen" consoles anymore...


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## 324atk (May 9, 2012)

awssk8er said:


> I agree with most of the points you named.
> 
> As long as my console can play great single player games, I'll be happy. If not, looks like I'll be sticking to my Wii and previous generation consoles.


I agree with you completely on this. If the industry does go to shit I'd happily stay in this generation until it gets sorted out, IF it gets sorted out.


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## godreborn (May 9, 2012)

personally, consoles shouldn't be in a power-struggle with pcs.  and, they should stick to gaming.  these days, multimedia features r being touted off far more than the games.  after all, the new metro dash of the 360 has the gaming section pushed off to the side.  I think the industry took a wrong turn when graphics became the end all and be all of gaming.  sure, it might be nice to have great graphics, but the cost will undoubtedly be passed on to the consumer.  I really don't want to take out a loan just to buy a game next gen.


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## Yatashi Strife (May 9, 2012)

just realized this? i have given up on anything regarding the future. in the future the earth will try to go super sayain 9000, but fail miserably and we will all die from the earth exploding within a time frame of 8 secs, and while we are dying we will hear the mario gameover sound. after death we will be cast into a dimension where we will hear elevator music wherever we go for the rest of our lives and we wont be able to say S#%$ about it, or u get falcon punched right in the nuts by chuck norris, because chuck norris survives super sayain 9000. PS: chuck falcon punch = death, unblockable, infinite invincibility frames, and 9 billion damage, and armor breaking. if u some how manage to stop it, you become the new chuck norris and the old one dies.

this is how i imagine the future. :/


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## alphamule (May 9, 2012)

SpaceJump said:


> The best thing for Sony and MS is to sit down and decide together to not release any "Next-Gen" consoles anymore...


Not exactly a bad idea... but highly questionable from a legal point-of-view if they collude.  Morally, they might just do this independently, anyways.  After all, if it's logical to one of them...  2-5 years to concentrate on helping developers reach gamers instead of competing on losing economic grounds.  I don't know how this would work, though.


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## Bladexdsl (May 9, 2012)

the future is going to suck? it already sucks this has been the worst gen yet for me nearly all the games out were lame fucking shooters or them dumb ass idiotic button combo mashing games. there was very few games out that interested me at all. most of the games focused solely on fucking making the gfx da best eva and gameplay took a backseat. and if next gen is going to be about the same than i am just going to quit altogether and not waste my time or $.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (May 9, 2012)

My PS3 is going to be my last console, I'm sticking with PC gaming. Not really because of the reasons listed, but the article is very convincing


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## Bladexdsl (May 9, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> My PS3 is going to be my last console, I'm sticking with PC gaming. Not really because of the reasons listed, but the article is very convincing


but pc gaming isn't much better most of the games are lame console ports


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## ZAFDeltaForce (May 9, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> ZAFDeltaForce said:
> 
> 
> > My PS3 is going to be my last console, I'm sticking with PC gaming. Not really because of the reasons listed, but the article is very convincing
> ...


My PC is more functional than consoles.

Is that better?


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## godreborn (May 9, 2012)

after playing the emulators on the ps3, 360, and wii, I bought a retron to play actual carts.  I can honestly say I've had more enjoyment with it than any of the main three consoles.  though, I might say I've also enjoyed the wii since it does focus on single-player (never liked online).  the sad thing is that the retron will likely outlast all three consoles considering the relatively low-build quality of any newer console.


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## FireGrey (May 9, 2012)

All of this is made by diehard fans that can't let go of the past so they are using rumors to back up their reasoning for why the next gen is going to suck.
Also, they say that it's sad that people pre-order BOII without knowing anything about it, but that is similar to what they are doing in that post.


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## ferofax (May 9, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> "West is sadly best", I strongly disagree, it's "West is almost completely uninteresting", There are no western games that give me any interest whatsoever for next gen heck Western games that interest me are few and far between this gen.  I expect it to be zero next gen, I'm disappointed beyond belief.


coming from a very small, singular point of view: yours.

They obviously view the point differently, like in the shoes of a developer, staring at something like how Call of Duty prints money, how iOS and Android apps prints money, and so on. who cares if you find CoD uninteresting, or if a million gamers out there find it uninteresting? fact of the matter is, it's a very pregnant cash cow, and that's what they see. 
nothing speaks volume than sales, no matter how mindboggling it may be.


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## Sterling (May 9, 2012)

Personally, I'm enjoying the shift to online games. Playing with other people is not only enjoyable, but many people I've played Call of Duty with have become great friends. While single player is indeed important, if games companies would add online capabilities and such they could potentially make much more. For example, I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to play Skyrim with a friend, or several friends. If Bethesda had made an online Co-Op mode where it requires an online pass to access, they'd have made much more money while still keeping the single player mode intact.


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## Nathan Drake (May 9, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> "West is sadly best", I strongly disagree, it's "West is almost completely uninteresting", There are no western games that give me any interest whatsoever for next gen heck Western games that interest me are few and far between this gen.  I expect it to be zero next gen, I'm disappointed beyond belief.


To be entirely blunt, even on this forum, you're somewhat of a minority in regards to your taste in games. I don't see you post a whole lot, mainly because I just don't read as much on here anymore, at least not nearly as much as I did for my first six months here, but I still have a fairly good idea of your taste in games. Anyways, as was pointed out, you may not like CoD, but millions of other gamers do. You may not like western RPG's, but millions of other gamers do. There's money to be made with conforming to western gaming trends for developers, especially as these trends begin to catch on in other parts of the world. 

Let's face it, Nintendo is the only one anymore who's games have a strong foundation in Japanese game making. Everything I played and enjoyed when I had a PS3? Made in the west. On the 360? Made in the west. I feel like half of it is because western developers are finally able to compete when in a market where development takes time, tastes have shifted, and patience wanes when it comes to waiting for everything you want to play from Japan being translated. Japanese gaming trends also either were never big over here (see: every dating sim ever), or have hit a sharp decline (see: JRPG's). Sure, JRPG's are no more repetitive than FPS games, but we haven't been hit by solid FPS games by the dozen for the past two or three decades.

You can't deny that the west is becoming the big region for games. They will never be entirely dominant, but it seems that at least for the next decade I'd presume, they've pretty much secured their spot as the dominant developers in the market, just as Japan was for a very long time.

Edit: I should probably mention that I can't really argue with anything the author put forth. They're all very valid points, or very valid worries. None of it is for sure, of course, but they have reasonably backed up their ideas well enough that I won't argue.


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## emigre (May 9, 2012)

I opened his thread expecting it to be about the economy.

Oh, how wrong was I?


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## godreborn (May 9, 2012)

I recall a quote by the great Miyamoto who said that whenever u pick up a controller of an established gaming series u should know what series ur playing within the first few seconds otherwise the developer has failed.  I think that is the reason y Nintendo still makes fantastic games regardless of whether or not an eastern or western dev develops the game in question.  however, some eastern devs, such as Square-Enix, have tried too hard to emulate their Western counterparts.  I honestly can't say I'd know that Final Fantasy XI, XII, XIII, or XIV were Final Fantasy games if not for the title screen or the enemies.  none of them r like the series' games that were on the NES, SNES, or PS1.  to me, that is the problem with Eastern devs.  it's not their failure to change, but it's rather their attempt to make Western-style games that fails.  that's my opinion anyway.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 9, 2012)

godreborn said:


> personally, consoles shouldn't be in a power-struggle with pcs.  and, they should stick to gaming.  these days, multimedia features r being touted off far more than the games.  after all, the new metro dash of the 360 has the gaming section pushed off to the side.  I think the industry took a wrong turn when graphics became the end all and be all of gaming.  sure, it might be nice to have great graphics, but the cost will undoubtedly be passed on to the consumer.  I really don't want to take out a loan just to buy a game next gen.



While agree with the Xbox's new terrible layout, I certainly don't agree with "shouldn't be multimedia devices". Nowadays we have the technology to do so many things with our electronics that not having these features is pretty stupid. Having Netflix, internet browsing capabilities, On Demand TV, music and video playback, they don't detract from games. I enjoy my Xbox because it has all these features and it has the games I want. To say that "gaming consoles should be purely for gaming" is just being dated.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that people complaining about "outrageous prices" only did so when the Wii was pushed as "cost affordable", even though it was completely gimped compared to other consoles. Gaming is a luxury, get over it.

EDIT 2: But my responses to the article:
*Sony Can’t Afford To Take Big Risks *- I don't care nor do I want them to. I don't want a "Playstation Move console" or some other crap like that. I want a PS4 with higher graphics, a traditional controller, and new features. If they really want to experiment, use the Vita. It's got everything you want or need. Touchscreens, motion controls, 3G, augmented reality, go fool around there. At least they blended traditional play styles with new ones there, I don't want a console that only emphasizes on retarded new controls.
*It’s Going To Be Hard To Be A Used Gamer *- Eh. I buy a lot of used games but I'd have no issue going new and simply keeping my nose out of questionable games until their prices are lowered. Plus with digital distribution on the rise, I can expect used gaming to not even be worth it when you can get games at Steam-level prices. People just bitch about this because they enjoy trading games in to buy more games.
*The Death of Singleplayer *- First, this is bullshit. There are plenty of games which have been able to blend multiplayer and singleplayer well. Assassin's Creed gave us a good singleplayer with a multiplayer. I know Rockstar has really be emphasizing on multiplayer recently but still give us large, story driven single player games. And honestly, if a game is multiplayer focused, I don't need a single player.
*Free-to-Play Might Be The Future *- If anything, recent developments in how F2P games work means this will be better than paying $15/month for one MMO.
*Subscriptions Are Too Lucrative *- But they're unpopular with the fanbase. Sony has been using an optional subscription plan, which has worked well, but mandatory subscriptions? I doubt it.
*Developing Next-Gen Games Will Be Even More Expensive *- So it cuts the crap out and "smaller" games that can't afford this budget can just develop for digital services. Big whoop.
*The Apple Has Landed *- "Exploring" but not "ingraining". I doubt many devs will convert completely to Apple.
*What Is Wrong With People? *- Typical CoD hate. BlOps 2 looks cool and I don't give a fuck if people hate it. You're not buying it, deal with it.
*West Is Sadly Best *- Weaboo bullshit. Ever think western games are "the best" because they offer the most? Expansive open worlds, gripping story telling, memorable characters. They don't focus on being "kawaii" or "quirky" like some of these ridiculous Japanese games. Japan has a few titles that redeem themselves by debunking this "stereotype" (like Nier and their non-RPG action games) but for every Nier and Platinum Games game they have 5 Love Pluses and Hatsune Miku games.
*Facebook My Tweet And Share It With Your Circle *- Who gives a fucking shit? Don't like the advertisement on Facebook? Don't like their fucking page. And since when is social networking integration "bad"? Oh no, I can share my accomplishments with my friends, it's killing gaming!
*It’s Watching You *- That's a pretty large leap there.
All in all, just a stupid article for people who are too close minded to accept that gaming evolves constantly and that the best games are made every year.


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## godreborn (May 9, 2012)

while I might agree to an extent, the point is we have to much crap that does the same thing.  I don't think many bought the ps3 to play netflex.  the point is that gaming devices should live up to their nomenclature.


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## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> While agree with the Xbox's new terrible layout, I certainly don't agree with "shouldn't be multimedia devices". Nowadays we have the technology to do so many things with our electronics that not having these features is pretty stupid. Having Netflix, internet browsing capabilities, On Demand TV, music and video playback, they don't detract from games. I enjoy my Xbox because it has all these features and it has the games I want. To say that "gaming consoles should be purely for gaming" is just being dated.


Pretty much. Saying that there is some necessity to have numerous devices for numerous purposes next to your TV is like saying that having a multiprocessor in the kitchen is pointless when you could have a blender, mixer, ice crusher, grater, juice squeezer, slicer 'n dicer... (goes on for an hour).

The point is, a console is no longer just for gaming - it's a hub for entertainment. Who doesn't like to listen to their favourite music while playing a game? Music player should be added then. Who doesn't like to watch a good movie after a nice gaming session? Video support should be added. Who hates having to get up and check online where this one secret you just can't find on your own is? A browser should be added. Who hates running back and forth with storage media when you want to run some of your content using one of the previously mentioned functions? LAN support should be added then.

You end up with a media hub, no matter how you slice it. Either people will accept this simple fact and realize that this makes their lives convenient or they will carry on living in the stone age.

We used to carry numerous devices on us not so long ago - we needed mp3 players/cd players/casette players for music, a GPS Nav for finding our way in unfamiliar terrain, a phone for calling and texting other people, an organizer to keep our tasks in-check, we needed a camera to take photos. That's a lot of stuff... and look at us now - all we need is a smartphone, most of them have all those functions and more built-in. Why? Because having one device that does it all is far better than having multiple - it's convinient and cost-efficient.


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## godreborn (May 9, 2012)

call me crazy but I use my gaming devices for gaming.  after all, u have samsung tvs integrated with facebook.  who'd buy a tv just so u could access facebook?  that is the problem with the gaming industry.  the gaming portion is merely an afterthought to a multimedia hub.


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## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

godreborn said:


> call me crazy but I use my gaming devices for gaming.  after all, u have samsung tvs integrated with facebook.  who'd buy a tv just so u could access facebook?  that is the problem with the gaming industry.  the gaming portion is merely an afterthought to a multimedia hub.


People don't buy TV's with Facebook to use Facebook - they focus on the primary function while the added functionality is a cherry on-top of an already delicious cake.

Same with consoles - gaming is the primary purpose, however the more functionality the better, and sometimes this extra functionality or its lack may determine whether someone will buy a given console or not. It's not since yesterday - it's always been like this. Why do you think the GameCube died? It offered virtually nothing other than the gaming portion while its competitors were far more robust and thus won the race.


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## Pleng (May 9, 2012)

324atk said:


> awssk8er said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with most of the points you named.
> ...



Funny, this generation and a half is the first time I've owned a 'current gen' system (Wii, DS then 3DS) since the Sega Megadrive; and it looks like it's the last time I'll be owning a current gen system for a while! 

I doubt I'll buy any more 'next-gen' hardware until it's already been hacked and is emulating dreamcast games (in a handheld form)


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## Deleted member 473940 (May 9, 2012)

Melodramatic title..
I actually took my time since this morning to read this article bits by bits.

Sounds so sure o.O like wtf.. we barely know fully about the WiiU and already speculating, saying stuff about MS and Sony's console -.-

I would just wait and see 

Although,  a valid point about development costs...


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## godreborn (May 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> godreborn said:
> 
> 
> > call me crazy but I use my gaming devices for gaming.  after all, u have samsung tvs integrated with facebook.  who'd buy a tv just so u could access facebook?  that is the problem with the gaming industry.  the gaming portion is merely an afterthought to a multimedia hub.
> ...



except, that companies, such as $ony, focus on multimedia features to hide a lack of innovation.  the ps vita may be nice, but I don't need something that can perform the same function as any cellphone. people want devices that r solely designed to perform what they were designed to perform.  do I really need four devices in my pock to tell me the time or the number of steps I've walked?  that is y $ony is failing.  gaming devices should focus on games.


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## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

godreborn said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > godreborn said:
> ...


Nice try, but the Vita is not a phone and isn't marketed as one - Sony already has a gaming phone and it's called the Xperia Play. One of the models has 3G functionality surely for internet purposes. Moreover, it doesn't hide any flaws behind its multimedia functions, it just has those functions. Finally, it's not failing. Try again.


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## Rayder (May 9, 2012)

And people wonder why I'm fading from gaming.  I've listed more-or-less the same reasons for quitting mainstream gaming years ago.   So apparently, I'm years ahead of the people who are just now realizing this. 

I've got my DS (Dead System) and PSP (Pirated Software Player) to play old-school emulated games from my past that were actually fun, as opposed to just being big elaborate productions with little to no substance (or fun), as most games seem to be nowadays.


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## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

Rayder said:


> And people wonder why I'm fading from gaming.  I've listed more-or-less the same reasons for quitting mainstream gaming years ago.   So apparently, I'm years ahead of the people who are just now realizing this.
> 
> I've got my DS (Dead System) and PSP (Pirated Software Player) to play old-school emulated games from my past that were actually fun, as opposed to just being big elaborate productions with little to no substance (or fun), as most games seem to be nowadays.



It's called progress. Music suffers from the same problems - the golden generation thought that rock was the music of the devil while the rock generation thought they're open-minded and revolutionary. The same rock generation condemned metal music as too violent while the metal generation rejected techno for not being "organic". Accept the fact that you and many others just... became old farts who are unable to cope with the changes occuring around them. You may have arguments for your statements and they will be valid... for the members of your generation and for those who enjoy retro gaming.

Gaming just like cinema, literature, music and other forms of creative works is subject to change. What you grew to love is no longer in the spotlight and you're having a hard time accepting that.

You have two options - you can try and accept the new while looking at it with a new perspective... Or you can be that old fart yelling at the kids outside from your porch that "Back in your day...!". The choice is of course yours.


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## The Catboy (May 9, 2012)

Quite honestly I gave up hope on video games after about a month into owning a Wii.
Personally I modded my xbox so I could pay old video games on it and I am planning on buying PSP to play old games on the go because the DS sucks at emulation.
@Rayder, I agree


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## Eerpow (May 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Gaming just like cinema, literature, music and other forms of creative works is subject to change. What you grew to love is no longer in the spotlight and you're having a hard time accepting that.
> 
> You have two options - you can try and accept the new while looking at it with a new perspective... Or you can be that old fart yelling at the kids outside from your porch that "Back in your day...!". The choice is of course yours.


Don't talk to gramps like that Foxi4!! 

I agree with Rayder about mainstream gaming and big production blockbuster games though.


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## Black-Ice (May 9, 2012)

Bring back ps2.
Thats when gaming was gaming.


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## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> Don't talk to gramps like that foxi4!!


I'm quite the old fart myself, the term is acceptable among the eldery.

I take a different approach though. I cherish my old games for what I would cherish them back in the day... but do not reject the new ones and praise them for what is valued nowadays. Every game, big production or not, has the potential of being a gem. Every game just may do something "right".

It's easy to criticize - everyone's a critic... but to accept innovation and change? Now that is a huge challenge!


----------



## DarkStriker (May 9, 2012)

Gogo let the next console generation die. Their moving to fast anyways with their console developement etc.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> Gogo let the next console generation die. Their moving to fast anyways with their console developement etc.


According to Moore's Law they are moving at the correct pace, actually.


----------



## DarkStriker (May 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> According to Moore's Law they are moving at the correct pace, actually.


According to my law, its moving too fast.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > According to Moore's Law they are moving at the correct pace, actually.
> ...


We haven't seen a _huge _development as far as consoles are concerned in 7 years (XBox 360 release), how long of a life-span do you expect? This generation already overstayed its welcome, it's about time to move on.


----------



## DarkStriker (May 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> We haven't seen a _huge _development as far as consoles are concerned in 7 years (XBox 360 release), how long of a life-span do you expect? This generation already overstayed its welcome, it's about time to move on.


*looks at everyone that prefers old consoles* Nah, dont think so.


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## BORTZ (May 9, 2012)

Thats it. Im buying one of these


Spoiler



http://imgur.com/6LGMh


And start collecting my long laundry list of NES/SNES games.


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## Flame (May 9, 2012)

This will root out the bad from the good.


----------



## 59672 (May 9, 2012)

Gaming isn't only on consoles and handhelds, PC gaming's gonna keep going strong. I can easily see a lot of console devs switching to making pc games due to fewer hardware limitations. Consoles and handhelds have yet to get digital distribution done truly right, something I think steam has pretty much perfected and origin (although I hate it) is also doing a fairly decent effort at it.

Gaming has just gotten to the point where many just can't justify buying a console for just games unless they're really into gaming, unfortunately for those who just want to play games on their consoles it doesn't really help when they talk about adding all these features that aren't about gaming.


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## Hop2089 (May 9, 2012)

59672 said:


> Gaming isn't only on consoles and handhelds, PC gaming's gonna keep going strong. I can easily see a lot of console devs switching to making pc games due to fewer hardware limitations. Consoles and handhelds have yet to get digital distribution done truly right, something I think steam has pretty much perfected and origin (although I hate it) is also doing a fairly decent effort at it.
> 
> Gaming has just gotten to the point where many just can't justify buying a console for just games unless they're really into gaming, unfortunately for those who just want to play games on their consoles it doesn't really help when they talk about adding all these features that aren't about gaming.



I like the offering of Indie titles on Steam, most of the titles they offer that are indie are good or at least decent and the fact they offer localized Japanese indie games is an absolute plus.

As for the other features like Facebook on consoles and handhelds, I just don't bother with them.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 9, 2012)

ferofax said:


> They obviously view the point differently, like in the shoes of a developer, staring at something like how Call of Duty prints money, how iOS and Android apps prints money, and so on. who cares if you find CoD uninteresting, or if a million gamers out there find it uninteresting? fact of the matter is, it's a very pregnant cash cow, and that's what they see.
> nothing speaks volume than sales, no matter how mindboggling it may be.


Only a rare few of iOS and Android apps print money.







iOS and Android are not sustainable platforms and are certainly not killing handheld gaming in any-way.



Foxi4 said:


> Finally, it's not failing. Try again.


The Vita actually is bombing hard. Even the Wii is doing better than it.


```
|System |  This Week  |  Last Week  |		YTD  |			LTD  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  WII  |	 15,789  |	  9,200  |	206,117  |	12,369,338  |
|  PSV  |	 10,583  |	 12,299  |	250,773  |	 690,758  |
```


----------



## Foxi4 (May 9, 2012)

soulx said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Finally, it's not failing. Try again.
> ...


That's really cute, but Sony as a company is nowhere near keeling over plus the 3DS had a rough start too, so it's no surpise that the Vita does.

EDIT: By the way, according to your chart, the Wii sold better only during one week. It doesn't seem to be a trend to me.


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## Gahars (May 9, 2012)

How does the fact that western developers are outperforming their eastern counterparts "suck" for everyone?


----------



## Deleted_171835 (May 9, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


For one, I'm talking about the Vita although Sony as a company isn't doing too well either. And second, the 3DS's sales were never as bad as the Vita's even with the sluggish start.

My point was that the Wii is pretty much a dead console. The fact that it sold better than the Vita speaks of a major problem with the platform.



Gahars said:


> How does the fact that western developers are outperforming their eastern counterparts "suck" for everyone?


Honestly, I'm not seeing this decline in quality of eastern games. I've seen just as much stellar games from Japanese devs as I've seen great games from Western devs. With this gen, it's not so much of a decline in Japanese games as it is an increase in great Western games.


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## Hop2089 (May 10, 2012)

Gahars said:


> How does the fact that western developers are outperforming their eastern counterparts "suck" for everyone?



Present mainstream gaming mentality of the West

Graphics>Gameplay

Shooters>All

Little room for innovation or variety


----------



## Gahars (May 10, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > How does the fact that western developers are outperforming their eastern counterparts "suck" for everyone?
> ...








Oh yes, of course it is. Gotcha.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 10, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> Present mainstream gaming mentality of the West
> 
> Graphics>Gameplay
> 
> ...



Present mainstream mentality of Japan

Graphics>Gameplay

Fanservice>All

Little room for innovation or variety.


----------



## Foxi4 (May 10, 2012)

soulx said:


> Only a rare few of iOS and Android apps print money.


I just noticed this and thought I'd comment since I don't really have anything to add to the "poor Vita" argument that's unrelated to the thread anyways.

Have you considered that this is simply because most of the games on App Stores are horrible? And I don't mean just "bad", I mean "sh*t and broken"?

Look at companies like Gameloft. For years on end, Gameloft's only source of income are mobile games. Only recently have they released a 3DS title which has its roots in their mobile franchise anyways. They release quality games, at least for mobile standards, and profit from it. Others release nasty, unfinished titles and don't. Today's market belongs to the concious customer who knows what he/she wants and gets that. Unless something doesn't seem up-to-par we just don't get it. Rovio set its bar high with Angry Birds and they quickly became a multi-million dollar business. The forementioned Gameloft lives off of mobile gaming for years already. Glu's in the exact same situation - they're doing fine.

What doesn't sell on the App Stores are unfinished and broken indie games that simply shouldn't be there yet, and they're high in number thus they're dragging the proffitable "rest" down in statistics, but this by no means mean that there is no money to be made here - there's plenty to go around if you have quality products to offer.


----------



## jalaneme (May 10, 2012)

Hop2089 said:


> *Sony Can’t Afford To Take Big Risks*
> Sony spent billions making the cell chip for the PS3 and sunk further billions into selling the console at a loss. Sony can’t afford to do that again after four years of heavy losses. The company also no longer employs anyone like Ken Kutaragi, who used his position and power to create an amazing device seemingly without taking profits into consideration. That’s why rumors suggest the PS4 will basically be a PC, and not even a very impressive one.
> 
> i really couldn't care less about sony's demise, good riddance to this terrible company, all they will bring is more restrictions and control and it will come to a point when no one will care anymore any boycott them.
> ...


----------



## jalaneme (May 10, 2012)

retro gaming is the future for new and old gamers, people will relive old classics and remember the good old days where you brought a game and it was 100% COMPLETE not this BS we get now, i am simply done with current gen, the only hope i have is nintendo (i started gaming with nintendo and i guess i will finish with them) i hope they don't let me down with the Wii U.

why do you think people keep on emulating old games on new consoles? because they are classics and timeless, they never get old, as soon as the gaming industry start to realise this the better but imo it will be way too late for that, the damage has already been done, game developers/publishers try to rectify that with HD remakes (and lock out backwards compatibility so they don't loose money) but that is not the way to go about it.

edit: i will leave you with a few videos to recap this whole topic in one.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (May 10, 2012)

in short - corporations are becoming greedy fucks?


----------



## Foxi4 (May 10, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> why do you think people keep on emulating old games on new consoles? because they are classics and timeless, they never get old, as soon as the gaming industry start to realise this the better but imo it will be way too late for that, the damage has already been done, game developers/publishers try to rectify that with HD remakes (and lock out backwards compatibility so they don't lose money) but that is not the way to go about it.


The problem with this logic is that 10-15 years from now people will be emulating 360/PS3 titles - will that make them timeless classics too?

Read my "Old Farts" post, it might shed some light on why you feel that way.

http://gbatemp.net/t...ost__p__4215891

Believe it or not, there really is nothing wrong with today's gaming industry - it's just your perspective that hasn't changed while everything else moved forward.



> retro gaming is the future for new and old gamers, people will relive old classics and remember the good old days where you brought a game and it was 100% COMPLETE not this BS we get now, i am simply done with current gen, the only hope i have is nintendo (i started gaming with nintendo and i guess i will finish with them) i hope they don't let me down with the Wii U.



You accuse "current generation games" of being incomplete upon release due to (I assume) DLC, however you fail to see the positives, or perhaps you don't even want to see any. Not only that, you're somewhat hypocritical. Did Command and Conquer not recieve numerous Mission Packs that were sold separatelly? Didn't numerous games go through the exact same process years and years ago, just via physical mediums? Of course they have! Did that mean that they were incomplete or sold with only part of the content? Perhaps in some cases, but in most, DLC as well as physical Mission Packs are simply enhancing the experience and adding new content.

Are you willing to go as far as to say that Starcraft: Brood War was essentially just a ploy by Blizzard to get some more money from the players? Do you really think that Duke Nukem 3D: The Atomic Edition was just a trick up 3D Realm's sleeve to sell you the same game twice? That's a really silly claim.


----------



## jalaneme (May 10, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The problem with this logic is that 10-15 years from now people will be emulating 360/PS3 titles - will that make them timeless classics too?
> 
> Read my "Old Farts" post, it might shed some light on why you feel that way.
> 
> ...



i personally think that emulating 360/ps3 games would be a difficult thing to do for a few simple reasons:

games will not be complete
games will require online passes to access servers which will not be accessible in 15 years time.
games that require to be online won't have servers running in 15 years, EA is a good example of that by shutting down servers after 2 years even when people are paying for the online passes.
some games require patches to fully work, they will not be available in 15 years to download from their servers, therefore games like skyrim is completely unplayable in it's vanilla state without patches.

with these problems the games would be a waste of time to play as they will be so broken and incomplete, the reason people still emulate old games from 20 years ago is because those games back then were complete, no patches, no dlc, no online or passes, just load and play, emulating current gen games in 15 years won't be as easy as it has in the past.



> You accuse "current generation games" of being incomplete upon release due to (I assume) DLC, however you fail to see the positives, or perhaps you don't even want to see any. Not only that, you're somewhat hypocritical. Did Command and Conquer not recieve numerous Mission Packs that were separatelly sold? Didn't numerous games go through the exact same process years and years ago, just via physical mediums? Of course they have! Did that mean that they were incomplete or sold with only part of the content? Perhaps in some cases, but in most, DLC as well as physical Mission Packs are simply enhancing the experience and adding new content.
> 
> Are you willing to go as far as to say that Starcraft: Brood War was essentially just a ploy by Blizzard to get some more money from the players? Do you really think that Duke Nukem 3D: The Atomic Edition was just a trick up 3D Realm's sleeve to sell you the same game twice? That's a really silly claim.



you are entitled to your own opinions as well as i am entitled to mine, but you are seriously kidding yourself and trying to justify game developers robbing you blind straight out, yes "DLC" existed back in the day on pc, but they were full expansion packs that even had their own software disc and own packaging, now "DLC" are a 100kb download that is on the disc already locked out intentionally to make you pay more money, you got your moneys worth back then, what i am trying to say is there is a difference between pure green $_$ greed and quality content that is worth your money.


----------



## ZAFDeltaForce (May 10, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> *It’s Watching You*
> Sure, Sony might have pioneered the EyeToy, but Microsoft mainstreamed the motion controlled camera with Kinect. As you’d expect, Sony wants a piece of that lucrative market, and is probably creating their own 3D camera. Which leads to this:
> 
> see my reply above, with facebook everywhere, and cameras in your face 24/7 you will be known to the world and everyone will know excatly what you are doing 24/7, you won't be able to be anonymous anymore, no privacy e.t.c i don't like the way gaming is going super social and intrusive... there are so many risks involved with this especially with nutcases on the internet i am sure people have heard of stories of people been killed from facebook after meeting up (online bullying too all sorts of trouble), and that call of duty player who traced that kid and tried to beat him up after he swore at him, look up the story for yoursself it's not too hard to find.


To be honest, there's always loopholes in the system. Don't want everyone to know what you are doing 24/7? Then don't update your Facebook wall. Personally, I never update my Facebook wall or Twitter account because I personally don't believe that updating everyone about my every action and thought throughout the day is wise or worth reading in any sense. That doesn't stop me from socialising with my friends by posting on their walls and the occasional commenting on their statuses however.

Don't want gaming to be socially intrusive? Then don't integrate Facebook with your gaming consoles. 3 years ago, I foolishly integrated my PS3 with Facebook and that fucker was constantly updating my wall with trophies I have unlocked and games I purchased on PSN. So I stopped the integration and my gaming patterns or happenings isn't posted on my Facebook wall.

Guess what - NOTHING is posted on my Facebook wall. I enjoy full privacy of my daily affairs that way.

I've heard about online bullying too, and it's truly unfortunate, but this can be minimized if people: treated friend invites from unknown people more seriously and with greater scrutiny, ignored "friends" who were posting cruel remarks on their walls, don't run around insulting and hurting everyone's feelings (The door swings both ways) and take everything they get from people online at face value. Feeling insulted from some random stranger on the Internet over a game or comment is beyond silly to me.

Thing is, no one is shoving social networks down our throats, and there are workarounds. GBATemp for instance, does not force us to use Facebook log in. So lighten up, I too hate how everything is going "social" these days. But that doesn't mean I should sit in a corner and suck my thumb


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## Foxi4 (May 10, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> games will not be complete *What do you even mean?*
> games will require online passes to access servers which will not be accessible in 15 years time. *Name some console games that require online passes to play Singleplayer.*
> games that require to be online won't have servers running in 15 years, EA is a good example of that by shutting down servers after 2 years even when people are paying for the online passes. *Server emulation. Not that much of an issue. Moreover, again, this is mostly for Multiplayer.*
> some games require patches to fully work, they will not be available in 15 years to download from their servers, therefore games like skyrim is completely unplayable in it's vanilla state without patches. *Do you expect all the consoles with said patches to magically disappear? They can be "removed" from a pre-patched game and implanted into another if needs be.*
> ...


----------



## jalaneme (May 10, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> To be honest, there's always loopholes in the system. Don't want everyone to know what you are doing 24/7? Then don't update your Facebook wall. Personally, I never update my Facebook wall or Twitter account because I personally don't believe that updating everyone about my every action and thought throughout the day is wise or worth reading in any sense. That doesn't stop me from socialising with my friends by posting on their walls and the occasional commenting on their statuses however.
> 
> Don't want gaming to be socially intrusive? Then don't integrate Facebook with your gaming consoles. 3 years ago, I foolishly integrated my PS3 with Facebook and that fucker was constantly updating my wall with trophies I have unlocked and games I purchased on PSN. So I stopped the integration and my gaming patterns or happenings isn't posted on my Facebook wall.
> 
> ...



i had this problem too on my ps3 and some of my friends didn't like it so i had to turn it off, lol, you may think you have a choice not to get involved, but in my case just today i got a email from a facebook app requesting details and asking me to confirm, i never gave said app and permission to email me requesting my personal information but in this case they did, there are numerous cases like this on facebook where your information is stored, it's even in facebooks terms and conditions that they can access personal information without your consent.



Foxi4 said:


> jalaneme said:
> 
> 
> > games will not be complete *What do you even mean?* you just have to look at todays games and see for your self, that is what i mean, without all the DLC to make the game complete you are missing out on content.
> ...


----------



## Sterling (May 10, 2012)

I completely support DLC. I don't support DLC that should have been in the game. Many times the whole reason why there is such types of DLC is because the publisher pushes a game because of their desire for profit. Sometimes though, there is planned DLC. This is where a separate team within the core developers write and develop DLC before the release of the game. These could be put into the game, but their content dictate they would be better as a separate package, but not deserving of a whole other game.


----------



## Just Another Gamer (May 10, 2012)

The concept of DLC is fine as long as its free and not needing to be paid for otherwise it seems like a real rip off cause its usually just a small addition to the game and nothing special that needs to cost anything.


----------



## Tsuteto (May 10, 2012)

No, I see where DLC should be paid for.  The thing is though, not every single piece of DLC should be paid for.  There's portions where it's like, "Yeah, okay, that's a healthy contribution to the game" or "yay bonus stuff that I really don't need to enjoy the game but want any way", fine, put a pricetag.  But then there's like, "Inclusion into the story that makes better sense of the plot" where it's something that should be a gift.  But, hey, marketing works, people will pretty much pay for that stuff anyway, so why not be money-grubbers and get everything that you can.

The future of gaming is only bleak because people either settle for the same thing over and over (and yet for some reason complain about remakes and how they need to stop as they're pulling out $100 bills to pay for said remake), or because they expect everything to be utterly perfect in one game.  The reason for games being amazing "back in the day" was because things weren't defined FOR the people by graphics, with some aspect of interaction to make the "story" move.  No, back then, the player defined the finer details themselves, while being immersed in a heavy storyline or worthwhile gameplay that was truly entertaining to the imagination.  Let's face it: as each generation moves into the next, people are less and less imaginative and thrive on those who are imagining things to provide the next "big thing" to keep them occupied until the next "big thing."  Society, itself, is more to blame, IMO, since they're moving like mindless cattle in this funnel of shelling out cash for monthly payments and such for the best experience.

Late night, rant doesn't make much sense in and of itself.  Kick on your thoughts and think about it and perhaps it might make a little more sense.  Nonetheless, it's only my two cents on the subject at hand, and I know by no means has much weight to a good number of people possibly.


----------



## Rockhoundhigh (May 10, 2012)

1. Sony just needs to be careful, to do better than they are with the Vita for sure.
2.Used games have never been an issue for me, I'd gladly pay 5 more bucks to support a company that makes a great game then give all the profit to a bunch of assholes like Gamestop.
3. That's what Nintendo is for it seems, Zelda multiplayer isn't exactly practical. There's nothing really wrong with multiplayer though.
4. Free-to-play is a weird concept, when used to make the game playable it's absolute garbage though.
5. If they're gonna charge for online then the service better be reasonably priced, comprehensive, and NOT loaded with ads like Xbox Live.
6. This is actually kind of the PC sectors fault, they exponentially increase the power of hardware in so little time that making a game that utilizes it continually gets more expensive to make.
7. Fuck touchscreen gaming, for Angry Birds, sure; for anything I take seriously no; those controls will never adhere to many game genres at least properly.
8. CoD is not a bad game, but holy crap, frantic fanboyism combined with the intelligence of 5 year olds who shouldn't even be playing this game are really ruining diversity in the industry.
9. It's like natural selection but in the game industry, I guess this is the parallel to what happened with CoD in the West, in the EAst all they ever seem to play are dating-sims and rpgs, I really hope Japanese developers don't die out though.
10. I don't social network, so this is garbage to put it mildly.
11. Not more gimmicky casual market appealing bullcrap, even if this stuff is utilized in an innovative way it' snot like anyone's gonna buy anything other than fitness/dance games.

I am looking towards the future in anticipation, but I don't like how inaccessible it's becoming to make a unique well-made game; when the industry was smaller it wasn't an issue, I just hope the industry never completely stagnates.


----------



## Taleweaver (May 10, 2012)

Note: didn't read all the responses

Seems to me the noted issues are true (or at least a well-founded argument). However, I disagree with the conclusion. I'd say the games industry as a whole is going to change. There are real threats out there, as profits are dwindling. The mentioned points are all attempts to tackle that just to keep making profits*. Some of those will prove successful, others will be rejected by the public (read: it won't bring in enough money to make it worth it).
It's possible some people will quit their gaming hobby alltogether if they dislike the changes too much, but I doubt the industry as a whole will collapse. At best, the whole "THE NEXT GEN NEEDS TO HAVE BETTER SPECSSSSSSSS" race collapses and the focus of new games shifts more to other aspects. Perhaps Indy games even grow up to be the standard in gaming (seriously: what makes "indy" developpers diferent from mainstream ones if not for the amount of cash they pump into their games?).


*this isn't an attack, by the way: all companies try to make a profit. If a game can't make that basic premise, it'll reflect on the following games the company will make


----------



## Pleng (May 10, 2012)

jalaneme said:


> i personally think that emulating 360/ps3 games would be a difficult thing to do for a few simple reasons:
> 
> games will not be complete
> games will require online passes to access servers which will not be accessible in 15 years time.
> ...



While you make some valid points, there's an even bigger obstacle in emulating the current gen: Processing power is not really increasing. Increase in computer speeds is coming from having multiple cores so more tasks can be performed in parallel. This doesn't really work out well with the way emulators are coded. Sure, you could conceivably have one core used to handle the processor emulation, one to handle the gfx emulation etc and then one or 2 cores used to try and sync the whole lot up; but if one core isn't even powerful enough to emulate the CPU alone you come across a big stumbling block.

Maybe some day a clever emu dev will find a way of efficiently splitting the emulation of one CPU across multiple cores; but until that happens it's going to be very difficult indeed.


----------



## Rasas (May 10, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Only a rare few of iOS and Android apps print money.
> ...


Ya, the terrible and broken games are a problem for the statistics just look at X-Box indie like 2500 games and only 50 are good. Half of them are to buggy or terrible to warrant a purchase. The numbers are bad because of them but if you just look if and do the math of all ps3/360 games and see where they land. I say it will be a little bit better but still terrible. There will usually be some gems and the rest aren't as good.


ZAFDeltaForce said:


> yes "DLC" existed back in the day on pc, but they were full expansion packs that even had their own software disc and own packaging, now "DLC" are a 100kb download that is on the disc already locked out intentionally to make you pay more money,...which cuts down the download times significantly. The same DLC could be on a server, it's just more convinient to put it on the disc. I personally dislike this practice but I can see how it makes "sense". Moreover, that kind of DLC's usually contain what? Bonus costumes? Big whoop. Pretty much only Capcom does it, it's not common practice. i can't argue with your own opinion, by all means keep supporting devs that do such things


You can always make a fake facebook account
Capcom isn't the only one but they get the most publicity doing it. Same with their cannot delete save data on Mercs yet others have the same thing on 3ds. They seem to take the most damage even though some companies do worse or about the same.

Gaming is evolving or changing for better or worse. Some gamers will just buy it anyway. Your going to just have to wait to the point it collapses and some people survive or someone new puts it back together,


----------



## ShadowSoldier (May 10, 2012)

I agree with the multiplayer argument. I hate that so many games are doing it now and put the single player to the side. It's ridiculous and totally ruins the games replay value. I play a game to learn the story, live the story, and for the characters. Not mindless killing of some person I'll never meet in life.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I agree with the multiplayer argument. I hate that so many games are doing it now and put the single player to the side. It's ridiculous and totally ruins the games replay value. I play a game to learn the story, live the story, and for the characters. Not mindless killing of some person I'll never meet in life.



In all honesty a lot of games that have introduced multiplayer into a single player franchise haven't compromised a lot. Assassin's Creed added it and Brotherhood and Revelations had the most features and side stuff for single player than any of the other ones. Red Dead Redemption really helped pushed a more open world multiplayer game and still had up to 40 hours of single player content. Mass Effect 3 had a good multiplayer section but it still offered an expansive, story-driven single player experience that's better than the others (ending aside if you disliked it but generally everyone enjoyed the game up until the last 5 minutes). I can't think of any franchises that introduced multiplayer and had their single player seriously take a hit because of it (I'm sure there's a few and I'd like people to list them but generally multiplayer just seems like a great addition rather than a terrible compromise).

Plus with tech nowadays, multiplayer is a natural evolution. Now you can play it online at any time, so why not take advantage of this?


----------



## alphamule (May 11, 2012)

Rayder said:


> And people wonder why I'm fading from gaming.  I've listed more-or-less the same reasons for quitting mainstream gaming years ago.   So apparently, I'm years ahead of the people who are just now realizing this.
> 
> I've got my DS (Dead System) and PSP (Pirated Software Player) to play old-school emulated games from my past that were actually fun, as opposed to just being big elaborate productions with little to no substance (or fun), as most games seem to be nowadays.


Matter of _taste_.  I like the older games but then again, they're mostly what I've played.  Looking at the 3DS and 360 kind of makes me jealous, but I need to play them to really form much of an opinion (on them).  That being said, the trend in gaming seems to be more fluff, less core.  With 2D games, you could get away with a lot of gameplay features without all the consequences that you'll get in a 3D game with a similar level of gameplay.  There's actually some mathematics behind that theory - it's harder to find all possible linear paths in 3 or higher dimensions, for example.



soulx said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Finally, it's not failing. Try again.
> ...


To be fair, wait about 2 years.  If it hasn't taken off after 2 years, it never will.  Or at least not as it was originally intended.



jalaneme said:


> retro gaming is the future for new and old gamers, people will relive old classics and remember the good old days where you brought a game and it was 100% COMPLETE not this BS we get now, i am simply done with current gen, the only hope i have is nintendo (i started gaming with nintendo and i guess i will finish with them) i hope they don't let me down with the Wii U.
> 
> why do you think people keep on emulating old games on new consoles? because they are classics and timeless, they never get old, as soon as the gaming industry start to realise this the better but imo it will be way too late for that, the damage has already been done, game developers/publishers try to rectify that with HD remakes (and lock out backwards compatibility so they don't loose money) but that is not the way to go about it.
> 
> edit: i will leave you with a few videos to recap this whole topic in one.



Techically, they do get old.  You can only play the same game so many times before you get bored with it.  What doesn't get old is the library of games for people who've never played them and the gameplay they can enjoy.  They'll still be the same game 3000 years from now.  It'll be like people watching movies from the 30's or reading books from the middle ages.  They'll show obvious dating, but a good movie will still be a good movie.  Once the systems currently being sold are 30 years old, come back and look at your perspective.  Quite a few people will like retro games simply because of taste, while others will hate them for the same reason.  Also, someone's definition of retro will have to include the genre and decade and system, which is a bit like how movies work.  You can like Steamboat Willy, and hate Costello.

BTW:  Without new gameplay and graphics, I somehow doubt Nintendo could get away as much as they do, with selling Super Mario Bros remakes.

Talking about releasing patches and charging for the full game again, I think we should look at the example of Warcraft II.  The expansion pack (green disc) was new gameplay with hardly any patches at all.  You got a few new heroes but the gameplay was identical and all the bug fixes were backported to the non-'x' (eXpansion set) so you got them either way.  The real advantage was single-player campaign levels.  When BNE (BattleNet edition) came out, you were mainly paying for online play and totally rewriting the game's engine for Windows.  It was worth it to most players.  You got a single-step install that worked on 98 and XP a lot better, and it cost $20 for the full thing, instead of like with the older game making you buy *2* $60 discs on release date.  Notice something - they didn't try to charge full price for essentially a redeveloped game with 99% the same content and they didn't charge you monthly fees to use your own Internet connection to other players.  The matchmaking service only needed to consume their bandwidth on finding a player.  IRC servers needed more bandwidth to do their job, giving the number of users.

A lot of the problems with PC CPU's not getting any faster at emulating game system CPUs is related to the fact that from a hardware perspective, using JUST a (serial/multicore in other words, instruction queue) CPU has become a lot like older computers that didn't have an instruction decoder.  Current CPU's (heck, every one since AMD64 at least) are actually designed in ways that break efficient instruction-set emulation.  FPGA's are expensive but they're one possible solution to emulation since you can highly optimize the logic, if the prices drop enough like they did on GPU's.  $200 can get you a pretty powerful streaming processor (GPU).  Also, the limitations caused by a lack of local storage will be lessoned as CUDA and such mature.  Right now, it doesn't make economic sense to have tons of cache in them when it's cheaper (for the given performance) for the applications they're designed for, to just double the number of cores and keep the same amount of RAM per core.  This has the unfortunate side-effect of limiting their power on some applications.


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## triassic911 (May 12, 2012)

If this is all indeed true, at least I have PC gaming to fall back on. This post feels like the worse is yet to come. :/


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## chains_of_androm (May 15, 2012)

I think the market is definitely geared towards the casual gamer now, so companies will develop thos time killing games more than in-depth, but I still see quite a demand from the hardcore gamers so hopefully it won't be too bad. Look on the brightside though, you now have more time to focus on studying...


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## alphamule (May 18, 2012)

Answer to hardcore gamers:  You'll have to make your own content or get used to buying lots and lots of expansion packs (or a subscription to a pack channel with commissions).  I mean heck, it worked on Quake and Unreal.  Of course, those were usually just really, really good one-offs of single levels or small (3-6 levels) packs.  

Also, this.  2042 looks pretty much like 1942.  At least it's not as bad as 2077.  In related news, instead of flying cars, we have flying robots and nuclear fusion seems *as always in my lifetime* to be just a few years off.  Sadly, flux capacitors are not in stock and are on backorder for the foreseeable future.


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## zuron7 (May 22, 2012)

I fear that gaming on consoles will soon die with products such as ONLIVE releasing.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 22, 2012)

zuron7 said:


> I fear that gaming on consoles will soon die with products such as ONLIVE releasing.



Doubtful, OnLive does well enough but it's not nearly as big as a Xbox 360/PS3/Wii/etc.

It'll take years before OnLive can get a grasp. Not everyone has unlimited internet connections and such.


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## Deltaechoe (May 22, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> zuron7 said:
> 
> 
> > I fear that gaming on consoles will soon die with products such as ONLIVE releasing.
> ...


Agreed, until unfettered internet access becomes more affordable, mainstream cloud gaming is going to be a pipedream.  The problem is while the providers love things like this (for the nickle and diming to death) the consumers are ultimately going to lose.  This isn't due to cloud services but instead completely the fault of the service providers.


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## machomuu (May 22, 2012)

Single Player's not going to die, just because Elder Scrolls is going online and CoD's Single Player has sucked since after 4 (which, coincidentally, is when the series started to dip into milk as well) doesn't mean Single Player's going to die.


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