# Is the Wii U the next TurboGrafx-16?



## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

I bet you weren't expecting that, huh? 
I was thinking about the Wii U's situation today and after reading the "Wii U Rant - Is the name to blame?" thread here and "The Crew won't get a release on the Wii U because of technical differences" on Nintendo Life and suddenly I made this connection, I will give 3 similarities between them and I will let you decide if the Wii U is the next TG16.

*1st - The Wii U and TG16's hardware are weaker than their rivals:*


Spoiler: Console Specs






			
				TurboGrafx-16 Specs said:
			
		

> The TurboGrafx-16 has an 8-bit CPU and a dual 16-bit GPU; and is capable of displaying 482 colors simultaneously, out of 512.





			
				Wii U Specs said:
			
		

> The Wii U uses a custom multi-chip module (MCM), the MCM combines an "Espresso" central processing unit (CPU) and a "Latte" graphics chip (GPU), as well as an SEEPROM memory chip. The Espresso CPU, consists of a PowerPC 750-based tri-core processor with 3 MB of shared L2 cache memory and clocked at approximately 1.24 GHz. Despite belonging to the PowerPC family, the Espresso also shares some architectural concepts with the POWER7 architecture such as the use of eDRAM cache and being manufactured at a 45 nm node. The Latte graphics chip contains both a "GX2" GPGPU, which runs Wii U applications, and a "GX" GPU, which enables backwards-compatibility with previous generation Wii games. The GX2 is based on the Radeon R600/R700 architecture and is clocked at approximately 550 MHz. It is manufactured at a 40 nm node and contains 32 MB of eDRAM cache memory, which can also act as L3 cache for the CPU. The GX, contains a 1 MB and a 2 MB banks of eSRAM cache memory. The Latte chip also includes a secondary custom ARM9 processor with 96 KB of SRAM memory that handles system tasks seamlessly in the background during gameplay or while the system is in sleep mode, and dedicated hardware audio DSP module.
> The console contains 2 GB of DDR3 system memory consisting of four 512 MB (4 Gb) DRAM chips with a maximum bandwidth of 12.8 GB/s. This is 20 times the amount found in the original Wii. However, 1 GB is reserved for the operating system and unavailable to games. The memory architecture allows the CPU and GPU to access both the main DDR3 memory pool and the eDRAM cache memory pool on the GPU, removing the need for separate, dedicated memory pools. The console includes either an 8 GB (Basic) or 32 GB (Premium (WW) / Deluxe (NA)) internal eMMC flash memory, expandable via SD memory cards up to 32 GB and USB external hard disk drives up to 2 TB.
> The Wii U features 802.11 b/g /n wireless network connectivity and Fast Ethernet (although it requires an accessory), Bluetooth 4.0, four USB 2.0 ports (two in the rear and two in the front of the console) and an SD/SDHC memory card slot. An additional power port is also included to power the Wii Sensor Bar, an auxiliary infrared emitter which communicates with the Wii Remote first introduced on the Wii. Video output options include 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 576i, 480p and 480i, through HDMI 1.4 and component video (YPBPR and D-Terminal) or 576i, 480i anamorphic widescreen through composite video (S-Video, RGB SCART and D-Terminal). Audio output options include six-channel 5.1 linear PCM surround sound or analog stereo. The console also supports stereoscopic (3D) images and video.





Both the Wii U and the TG16 were the first on the "nextgen" market and both got a weaker hardware than the competition. The TG16 started the 16-bits era with a 8-bits CPU and 2 16-bits GPU, he was released to beat the NES/Famicom on Japan as the PC-Engine, but later on, its main rivals became the SNES and the Genesis/Mega Drive, both with a full 16-bits CPU and better specs. The situation is similar on the Wii U's side, he started the 8th generation of video games with better specs than the Xbox 360 and PS3, but after the release of the PS4 and the Xbox One, most people started calling it a "non-newgen" console and most developers won't make games for it because of its specs difference.

*2nd - They tried to innovate the VG market:*






And we got another similarity, the TG16 had/was the first CD addon/console with the TurboGrafx-CD, which later started the CD addon/console wave with the Sega CD, CDi, 3DO, Neo Geo CD and the Atari Jaguar CD, it was also the first console with a handheld (TurboExpress) that could play the same games as its home counterpart. The Wii U got its gamepad with a touchscreen, it allows you to stream your games to its screen and play them without a TV, later on, the PS4 got the Remote Play with a PSVita, it also allows you to stream games and play them without a TV.

*3rd - They stayed in the 3rd place on the sales and got a cult following:*

It is a bit early right to say that about the Wii U, however, the TG16 stayed in the 3rd place(2nd place on Japan, but a bit distant from the Super Famicom) in the console wars, with most good games being Japan only. They also got a strong cult following because of their games, the TurboGrafx-16 is the console of choice for shooters and some arcade conversions, also it was the only console to receive Street Fighter I(As Fighting Street) back in the day. The Wii U got the classic Nintendo franchises like Mario, Zelda, Pokémon and good exclusives like Bayonetta 2, Sonic Lost World and a few others.

Alright, so what do you think about this crazy idea? Do you think it is valid? I hope I can get some feedback on this idea!


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## chavosaur (Aug 15, 2014)

I think no matter how you spin it, the Wii U's fucked, everyone knows it, and we don't need 15thousand threads telling us it's boned


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## Clarky (Aug 15, 2014)

I do see the similarities, nice article Mat


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## darkseekerliu (Aug 15, 2014)

Nice article.


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## TheCasketMan (Aug 15, 2014)

I think you could also compeared the Wii U to the Dreamcast.  The Dreamcast was weaker than the PS2, GC, and Xbox, it tried to innovate the the VMU, web browser, and online multiplayer, and it stayed last place but its cult following is over 9000!


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

TheCasketMan said:


> I think you could also compeared the Wii U to the Dreamcast. The Dreamcast was weaker than the PS2, GC, and Xbox, it tried to innovate the the VMU, web browser, and online multiplayer, and it stayed last place but its cult following is over 9000!


Except the Dreamcast didn't sell poorly until the PS2 came around - it had a very successful launch wheras the Wii U's reception has been lukewarm from the get-go.


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## SLiV3R (Aug 15, 2014)

perhaps. TurboGrafx-16 sold 10 millions..

Wii U has sold 6.8 so far.. I love my Wii U. But the console will never be mainstream like the NES, SNES, DS & Wii..


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## Oxybelis (Aug 15, 2014)

Wii U is GameCube 2 (even hardware wise), but even worse selling.


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## Nintendofanboy (Aug 15, 2014)

I looked again to the figures of sold consoles and what I saw there the Xbox one is the third behind PS4 and Wii U. So the last argument is not the true. 
And now my opinion: why we need so many silly compare threads? We all know that the Wii U is not the best, but to compare to absolutely different things don't make the hole thing better.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> Wii U is GameCube 2 (*even hardware wise*), but even worse selling.


 

*Cough* Bullshit *cough*


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

Nintendofanboy said:


> I looked again to the figures of sold consoles and what I saw there the Xbox one is the third behind PS4 and Wii U. So the last argument is not the true.
> And now my opinion: why we need so many silly compare threads? We all know that the Wii U is not the best, but to compare to absolutely different things don't make the hole thing better.


It was a thought that I was discussing in the shoutbox and someone said "You should make a thread about it".
Anyway, I haven't seen any data on Wii U sales, but I have only checked Wikipedia.
And FYI I think the Wii U got a chance and I see potential on it, I am sure if Nintendo gets some people on their marketing and some devs on the board the Wii U will start to kick ass.


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## Oxybelis (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> *Cough* Bullshit *cough*


CPU is more or less 3 GC cores slapped together.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> CPU more or less is 3 GC cores slapped together.


 

Because CPU power is all about the GHz, right? Clearly I should seek your knowledge about hardware more often. More GHz != more power. Come back to me when you learn more about IBM PPC vs Intel x86-64 architecture.


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## Oxybelis (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Because CPU power is all about the GHz, right? Clearly I should seek your knowledge about hardware more often. More GHz != more power.


Where did I mention GHz?


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> CPU is more or less 3 GC cores slapped together.


I recommend you to read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> Where did I mention GHz?


 
By stating it was three GCN CPUs together, when that's utterly false and pure bullshit, it was implied, so do your research about CPU architectures and that CPUs aren't powerful from clock speed alone.  Come back to me when you learn that wording that it's 3 CPUs slapped together is spurious and sophomoric, maybe then I'll give a damn.


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## Oxybelis (Aug 15, 2014)

matpower said:


> I recommend you to read this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth





the_randomizer said:


> By stating it was three GCN CPUs together, when that's utterly false and pure bullshit, it was implied, so do your research about CPU architectures and that CPUs aren't powerful from clock speed alone.


Where did I mention clock speed?
Wii U CPU core IS a GC core.

Do you not believe fail0verflow? "The Wii U isn’t a particularly interesting device. It has the same old Wii CPU, times three." https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2013/espresso.html


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> Where did I mention GHz?


Well, the GC's CPU is an IBM PowerPC Gekko running at 485MHz, multiplying that by 3 equals 1.4GHz-ish, which is nearly the same as the Wii U clock speed, which is a Tri-Core IBM PowerPC "Espresso" at 1.24GHz.
Also you are ignoring the extra cores, bro.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> Where did I mention clock speed?
> Wii U CPU core IS a GC core.
> 
> Do you not believe fail0verflow? "The Wii U isn’t a particularly interesting device. It has the same old Wii CPU, times three." https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2013/espresso.html


 

But that doesn't mean it's a bad CPU or bad architecture, people just use it as a bullshit excuse to bash the console. Those who focus more on the hardware of a console than the games shouldn't be getting up in arms about it. That's not the only thing the Wii U has, GPGPU for instance. Marcan is also one to over-dramatize.


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## LegendAssassinF (Aug 15, 2014)

Yes the Wii U is doing bad but Nintendo has plenty of money to suffer a lost after the huge success of the Wii. They don't plan on dropping support like Sega did with its consoles either (That is what ultimately killed them even though the Dreamcast was amazing). Nintendo has plenty of games coming out for it and sadly the Xbox One is in the same boat right now. The sales are terrible for it as well and people just gloss over it. Nintendo is the only company people are willing to bash even when another is doing poorly. I really don't think the X1 is going to pass the Wii U anytime soon even with exclusive games. Nintendo has plenty of ways to make people buy a Wii U but might need another small price drop now that Mario Kart 8 is out. Hyrule Warriors will push sales in Japan mainly but Smash 4 is going to do it worldwide again. Big mistake was releasing Smash 3DS before the Wii U version.


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## Oxybelis (Aug 15, 2014)

matpower said:


> Well, the GC's CPU is an IBM PowerPC Gekko running at 485MHz, multiplying that by 3 equals 1.4GHz-ish, which is nearly the same as the Wii U clock speed, which is a Tri-Core IBM PowerPC "Espresso" at 1.24GHz.
> Also you are ignoring the extra cores, bro.


 Do you know why Gekko is  485MHz? It's a bus frequency multiplied by 3. And I did not forget about 3 cores if you read my posts.

Wii U has 2 multipliers (for Wii and Wii U modes)  and 2 bus modes. 3x in Wii mode and 5x in Wii U.



the_randomizer said:


> But that doesn't mean it's a bad CPU or bad architecture, people just use it as a bullshit excuse to bash the console. Those who focus more on the hardware of a console than the games shouldn't be getting up in arms about it. That's not the only thing the Wii U has, GPGPU for instance. Marcan is also one to over-dramatize.


 It has decent general purpose perfomance but very outdated and poor SIMD perfomance.  GPGPU method is old and not versatile. Context switching likely kills perfomance benefits of using it.


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

LegendAssassinF said:


> Yes the Wii U is doing bad but Nintendo has plenty of money to suffer a lost after the huge success of the Wii. They don't plan on dropping support like Sega did with its consoles either (That is what ultimately killed them even though the Dreamcast was amazing). Nintendo has plenty of games coming out for it and sadly the Xbox One is in the same boat right now. The sales are terrible for it as well and people just gloss over it. Nintendo is the only company people are willing to bash even when another is doing poorly. I really don't think the X1 is going to pass the Wii U anytime soon even with exclusive games. Nintendo has plenty of ways to make people buy a Wii U but might need another small price drop now that Mario Kart 8 is out. Hyrule Warriors will push sales in Japan mainly but Smash 4 is going to do it worldwide again. Big mistake was releasing Smash 3DS before the Wii U version.


Yeah, I agree on that one. But releasing the 3DS version first was a smart move IMO, since there are cross-linking features and releasing them at the same time would be something like "Do I pick a game for the console that I already own or do I buy another console for a single game?"
This one was just a crazy idea of mine and I wanted to see what people think of that theory, again, I believe on Wii U's potential
Also the only reason Sega went 3rd party was because the CEO changed and he said "We will get more profit if we go 3rd" iirc.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 15, 2014)

Couldn't the same thing have been said about the 3DS in its first year or two?

I sometimes wonder how things would have played out if Nintendo had dropped backwards compatibility, or Sony/MS had retained it.  Being on an outdated processor family makes a big difference.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

Why are people contesting the statement that the Wii U is within the exact same hardware family as the Gamecube and the Wii when it is _literally_ based on the exact same structure?

The Wii U's CPU _does_ consist of _"three GC cores"_ running at a higher clock with some minor adjustments such as a smaller lithography, much like the Wii _does_ run on a _"GC core"_ running at a higher clock speed - it's a known fact. The three systems are literally siblings in this regard, and it's not a matter of the _"Megahertz Myth"_, it's a matter of natural progression of the same structure.

It all started with PPC7xx CPU + AMD GPU, the Wii _"innovated"_ by adding an ARM co-processor and the Wii U _"innovated"_ by making the set multicore.


Spoiler: Wii U's Architecture











This must be the third time I'm posting this - you can _see_ everything the Wii U inherited from the Gamecube and the Wii right there. Hell, if not for the disc drive, this thing would be natively compatible with Gamecube software - there's no technological reason why it wouldn't be. You've got MEM0, you've got MEM1, you've got Starbuck _(Wii U's equivalent of the Wii's Starlet)_, you've got a compatible AMD graphics chip, you've got a PPC-based CPU - it _is_ the same structure.


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## cobleman (Aug 15, 2014)

I don't give a crap about this 1 is better than this 1 and this 1 has this and that 1 had that. I simply bought the console for 1 game only ZELDA that's it. I played the arse out of CODBO2 got Mario Kart 8 <--Played 3 times since I got it 2 months ago Played my FREE download game Monster Hunter not a complete ONCE only booted made sure it worked then quit the game. I have bought every kind of game console released by Nintendo from Game and Watch 1st Wide screen release Parachute, NES, SNES ,N64, Gamecube,Wii, and now Wii U. I can tell you 1 thing though BUILD quality I have never had a YELLOW LIGHT OF DEATH OR A RED RING OF DEATH ON A Nintendo product. The only time I have even had trouble is because "I" didn't clean contacts or lasers on a regular basis.
Have you ever considered Nintendo may have tried BIGGER SPECS but found the FAILURE rate DUE to OVER HEATING unacceptable for there STANDARDS. Where as other company's released their console's knowing full well of the over heating and Failure rates at the time but thought hey we will just release a new model in a few month's let's just get them on the shelves and make a shiv ton of money.


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

cobleman said:


> I don't give a crap about this 1 is better than this 1 and this 1 has this and that 1 had that. I simply bought the console for 1 game only ZELDA that's it. I played the arse out of CODBO2 got Mario Kart 8 <--Played 3 times since I got it 2 months ago Played my FREE download game Monster Hunter not a complete ONCE only booted made sure it worked then quit the game. I have bought every kind of game console released by Nintendo from Game and Watch 1st Wide screen release Parachute, NES, SNES ,N64, Gamecube,Wii, and now Wii U. I can tell you 1 thing though BUILD quality I have never had a YELLOW LIGHT OF DEATH OR A RED RING OF DEATH ON A Nintendo product. The only time I have even had trouble is because "I" didn't clean contacts or lasers on a regular basis.
> Have you ever considered Nintendo may have tried BIGGER SPECS but found the FAILURE rate DUE to OVER HEATING unacceptable for there STANDARDS. Where as other company's released their console's knowing full well of the over heating and Failure rates at the time but thought hey we will just release a new model in a few month's let's just get them on the shelves and make a shiv ton of money.


Wow, calm down, I didn't make this thread to bash the Wii U, and I like the Wii U myself if you check my other posts here in this thread.
And yes, Nintendo got the best quality hardware here, my 22 years old SNES still kick ass. 
And please, if you ever want to rage, at least try to grammar. :/


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

cobleman said:


> I don't give a crap about this 1 is better than this 1 and this 1 has this and that 1 had that. I simply bought the console for 1 game only ZELDA that's it. I played the arse out of CODBO2 got Mario Kart 8 <--Played 3 times since I got it 2 months ago Played my FREE download game Monster Hunter not a complete ONCE only booted made sure it worked then quit the game. I have bought every kind of game console released by Nintendo from Game and Watch 1st Wide screen release Parachute, NES, SNES ,N64, Gamecube,Wii, and now Wii U. I can tell you 1 thing though BUILD quality I have never had a YELLOW LIGHT OF DEATH OR A RED RING OF DEATH ON A Nintendo product. The only time I have even had trouble is because "I" didn't clean contacts or lasers on a regular basis.
> Have you ever considered Nintendo may have tried BIGGER SPECS but found the FAILURE rate DUE to OVER HEATING unacceptable for there STANDARDS. Where as other company's released their console's knowing full well of the over heating and Failure rates at the time but thought hey we will just release a new model in a few month's let's just get them on the shelves and make a shiv ton of money.


Don't be ridiculous - a number of Nintendo systems were reported as DoA. The Wii's suffered from BGA damage which resulted in the Blue Slot of Death, much like the 360 suffered from the Red Ring of Death and the PS3 suffered from the Yellow Light of Death. The early NES systems chronically suffer from bent 72-pin slots as well as damage to the loading mechanism, hence the later top-loaded model. SNES sound circuits often just _"blow up"_ on a per-chip scale, which is why you sometimes get to see auctions of SNES'es with video but _"no audio, I don't know why"_. The shoulder buttons on the DS Lite blow and the hinges on the DS and the DS Lite break if you look at them funny. There's a number of problems with Nintendo systems, don't pretend that there aren't, people just aren't talking about them for some reason _"because Nintendo"_.


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## LegendAssassinF (Aug 15, 2014)

matpower said:


> Yeah, I agree on that one. But releasing the 3DS version first was a smart move IMO, since there are cross-linking features and releasing them at the same time would be something like "Do I pick a game for the console that I already own or do I buy another console for a single game?"
> This one was just a crazy idea of mine and I wanted to see what people think of that theory, again, I believe on Wii U's potential
> Also the only reason Sega went 3rd party was because the CEO changed and he said "We will get more profit if we go 3rd" iirc.


 

I meant the Wii U version should of came out first to push the Wii U sales since I think the 3DS version will harm the Wii U sales since they are the same. I just see this as the same problem Sony had with the Vita pushing it by only giving it cross play and ports of games on the PS3.


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Don't be ridiculous - a number of Nintendo systems were reported as DoA. The Wii's suffered from BGA damage which resulted in the Blue Slot of Death, much like the 360 suffered from the Red Ring of Death and the PS3 suffered from the Yellow Light of Death. The early NES systems chronically suffer from bent 72-pin slots as well as damage to the loading mechanism, hence the later top-loaded model. SNES sound circuits often just _"blow up"_ on a per-chip scale, which is why you sometimes get to see auctions of SNES'es with video but _"no audio, I don't know why"_. There's a number of problems with Nintendo systems, don't pretend that there aren't, people just aren't talking about them for some reason _"because Nintendo"_.


Wow, never heard about the SNES Sound Chip issue, but about the NES 72-pin, there are easy fixes(The boiling trick for example) for that and it is an effect of old age and usage too.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

matpower said:


> Wow, never heard about the SNES Sound Chip issue, but about the NES 72-pin, there are easy fixes(The boiling trick for example) for that and it is an effect of old age and usage too.


Maybe if Nintendo didn't make a loading mechanism akin to a VCR in a _video game console_ this wouldn't be an issue, but it is an issue. As for the sound chip issues, you're in luck if you have an early SNES with a removable sound board - if you have a late one, you are most definitely _out_ of luck if the sound circuitry blows. Not sure if you've ever seen a blown IC, it essentially looks normal except there's a _hole_ in the black compound covering it. I'll try to find some photos of the issue to demonstrate.


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Maybe if Nintendo didn't make a loading mechanism akin to a VCR in a _video game console_ this wouldn't be an issue, but it is an issue. As for the sound chip issues, you're in luck if you have an early SNES with a removable sound board - if you have a late one, you are most definitely _out_ of luck if the sound circuitry blows. Not sure if you've ever seen a blown IC, it essentially looks normal except there's a _hole_ in the black compound covering it. I'll try to find some photos of the issue to demonstrate.


Well, they had to make it like a VCR, else there won't be this discussion to start with it. 
tbh I wonder why Nintendo didn't replace the Toaster model with a Top-Loader model early, since it would fix the bent 72-pin issue.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Aug 15, 2014)

I doubt the Wii-U will end up in the same position as the TG16. Xbox One maybe? Only with out the luxury of selling really well in Japan like the PC Engine did. 

It's also a bit early to be predicting this kind of thing. We have to wait pretty much till the end of the gen before this could be said. Last gen would have been 360 firmly in the lead in the first year (only system on the market.) and the rest just trying to play catch up. The PS3 would have been firmly in last place with almost no sales in the first year so yeah... Things can change over a 3-4 year period.


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## cobleman (Aug 15, 2014)

Wii BGA don't leave it in standby mode it turns into a toaster because no fan to cool it(Fan is sufficient for cooling it just does not come on in STANDBY MODE). NES Bent 72 pin easy fix loading mechanism also an easy fix. Never heard of SNES sound chip problem sounds like a Sony product (lol it is a Sony chip)


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

cobleman said:


> Wii BGA don't leave it in standby mode it turns into a toaster because no fan to cool it. NES Bent 72 pin easy fix loading mechanism also an easy fix. Never heard of SNES sound chip problem sounds like a Sony product (lol it is a Sony chip)


Sony stuff is pretty good, also, the sound chip was so good that Nintendo teamed up with Sony to make the SNES-CD addon.
Wii BGA still is an issue, since you just said that the early Wii models didn't have proper cooling.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

As promised, here it is:






This chip is called the S-MIX. As you can see, it likes to explode - if you Google "SNES S-Mix" or "SNES U10" _(location of the chip on the motherboard)_, you'll see lots of cases and even auctions of that particular chip. The result of it blowing is no sound for no immediately apparent reason and the only solutions are to replace it or to bypass it.


cobleman said:


> Wii BGA don't leave it in standby mode it turns into a toaster because no fan to cool it. NES Bent 72 pin easy fix loading mechanism also an easy fix. Never heard of SNES sound chip problem sounds like a Sony product (lol it is a Sony chip)


It's not the Sony component that's breaking, it's a generic chip that's at fault. It doesn't matter how easily shit design can be fixed - it's still shit design. If the system has a standby mode like all modern electronics except that mode downright kills it then perhaps it _should_ have a fan on the heatsink. Besides, I'm only naming a couple of issues over the years - I can go on, but what's the point. Nintendo is no holy cow - they make mistakes in their design as well, which is what I'm demonstrating.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Aug 15, 2014)

cobleman said:


> Wii BGA don't leave it in standby mode it turns into a toaster because no fan to cool it. NES Bent 72 pin easy fix loading mechanism also an easy fix. Never heard of SNES sound chip problem sounds like a Sony product (lol it is a Sony chip)


 

Probably one of those more rare issues. Probably could make a list of semi rare issues... 

5200 Joysticks, joysticks, joysticks... did I mention the joysticks are garbage? 
NES original front loaders always had problems after a couple of years. Top loaders from what I hear are built like tanks.
SNES/Genesis/TG16 I didn't really hear about or experience any specific issues with any of them. (The sound thing has to be one of those rare issues.) 
PS1 Turn the system upside down because something wears out really fast on the launch models. 
PS2 Launch system laser issue for me would not read CD's also  laser burn out issues (is that one rare? all I know is that I have 3 PS2's right now and 2 will not read disks and 1 is kinda iffy on it...) Xbox had some capacitor that goes bad or something that keeps it from remembering the date and time. 
PS3/360/Wii    My PS3 gets oven hot but it's a launch unit and it still works so maybe? 360 famous so no need to mention it. Wii had issues with standby mode but I turned it off as that blue light was annoying as hell little did I know I was doing the right thing instinctively lol 

This gen should be one of the most reliable in years.... No one is using super cutting edge tech so there is that going for them.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 15, 2014)

For the Wii U to be the next TG16 it would have to get some good games, possibly even the best versions of a given game (it had some of the best arcade ports and its versions of bomberman are usually held up there with the Saturn one).

That said if the Wii U wants to become a shmups machine of similar potency to the PCE/TG16 then I will buy one and be quite happy with the purchase. If it also does as well on the puzzles and platformer front then even better still.

However I am not expecting much out of the Wii U library at this point, indeed I would probably be shocked if there was something marginally collectible in the years to come.



Psionic Roshambo said:


> This gen should be one of the most reliable in years.... No one is using super cutting edge tech so there is that going for them.



No super cutting edge stuff, still plenty of lead free BGA though.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

The thing about console reliability _"prior to the spread of the great interwebs"_ is that everybody always thought that they're _"the isolated case"_ since communication with other gamers was effectively limited to those in your immediate vicinity. The _"dead on arrival"_ ratio or the issues of early revisions are not more common these days - they're more _inflated_ because one person experiences the issue and 10.000 share the story and blowing it completely out of proportion. Now, I still think that older systems were more _"reliable"_, but that's because they were much simpler than today's machines that are littered with surface mounted modules of all-sorts so densly that you can barely find empty spots on PCB's. Old consoles _had_ issues, just like new consoles do and remembering them fondly doesn't change that.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

If the Turbografx was weaker than the Genesis, how come the Genesis port of Bomberman 94 sucked so bad? It has less detailed sprites and crappy music

And then there's the PC Engine Valis games which crap all over the Genesis versions


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## matpower (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> If the Turbografx was weaker than the Genesis, how come the Genesis port of Bomberman 94 sucked so bad? It has less detailed sprites and crappy music


Bad porting job...?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

It's hard to judge whether the TurboGrafx-16 was stronger or weaker than the competition based solely on the fact that the CPU was 8-bit, the length of the word does not equate processing power. You could still get comparable and often times superior results on the hardware, especially after connecting the numerous peripherals.

http://www.sega-16.com/2009/12/side-by-side-ys-iii-genesis-snes-tg-16/

Just a few side-by-sides to demonstrate my point.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 16, 2014)

More comparisons:

http://itscoolfromsaturn.blogspot.com.br/2013/04/graphics-showdown-turbografx-vs-mega.html


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## matpower (Aug 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's hard to judge whether the TurboGrafx-16 was stronger or weaker than the competition based solely on the fact that the CPU was 8-bit, the length of the word does not equate processing power. You could still get comparable and often times superior results on the hardware, especially after connecting the numerous peripherals.
> 
> http://www.sega-16.com/2009/12/side-by-side-ys-iii-genesis-snes-tg-16/
> 
> Just a few side-by-sides to demonstrate my point.


I was comparating the system alone besides on the 2nd point, but yeah, the CD ROM addon was pretty powerful AND could be upgraded via cards, thanks to the Arcade Card that it got some nice arcade(duh ) conversions.
Also the Mega Drive had a small color pallete, it could only display 64 colors on screen vs 482 from the TurboGrafx-16, so a lot of stuff look better on it.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

You'd have to really, really, _really_ dig into the details of each of those systems to make heads or tails of which one was factually _"the best"_ overall - the TurboGrafx's shortcoming was the 8-bit CPU which limited the length of the word, but overall it was pretty capable and comparable to its competitors, really.


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## GamerzHell9137 (Aug 16, 2014)

The thing is devs DON'T WANT to make games for the Wii U.
Its not cause it doesn't make money, i mean Vita is in similar situation but still gets games, new ones and ports but Wii U isn't getting anything.
I guess the reasons could be cause its hard to make games, expensive to make games or just Nintendo's fault for not letting the dev unleash their full potential in some kind of way(Wii U specs,Policy,Online etc)

The gamepad got outwinded by Sony and maybe Micrsoft is gonna do the same with Shield(?), the only reason for having a Wii U are the exclusives.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 16, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> More comparisons:
> 
> http://itscoolfromsaturn.blogspot.com.br/2013/04/graphics-showdown-turbografx-vs-mega.html



I just read that... turns out, assuming it is accurate, that I should probably not comment on graphics ever again. I can spot the differences, however I do have to wonder for the calls of oversaturation and the like what goes as far as capture (I know Brazil is PAL which helps it but that old and PAL is not great). Afraid I shall have to accuse the article of a slightly milder version of matching evidence to a point and/or going into very subjective territory.

Also as much as I love PCE bomberman the megadrive version is by no means a bad game, certainly objectively worse by most measures but that does not make it bad. This is to the point that should I need a bomberman fix then a megadrive emulator is probably what I will go for, mainly as it is likely to be the least aggro to get the best results (Saturn, PCE/TG16 and Super Game Boy emulators being less easy to come by and probably more fiddly).


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## matpower (Aug 16, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> I just read that... turns out, assuming it is accurate, that I should probably not comment on graphics ever again. I can spot the differences, however I do have to wonder for the calls of oversaturation and the like what goes as far as capture (I know Brazil is PAL which helps it but that old and PAL is not great). Afraid I shall have to accuse the article of a slightly milder version of matching evidence to a point and/or going into very subjective territory.
> 
> Also as much as I love PCE bomberman the megadrive version is by no means a bad game, certainly objectively worse by most measures but that does not make it bad. This is to the point that should I need a bomberman fix then a megadrive emulator is probably what I will go for, mainly as it is likely to be the least aggro to get the best results (Saturn, PCE/TG16 and Super Game Boy emulators being less easy to come by and probably more fiddly).


Brazil uses PAL-M, which is closer to NTSC than PAL actually.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 16, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> (I know Brazil is PAL which helps it but that old and PAL is not great).


PAL-M, but most TVs were dual PAL-M/NTSC. Consoles released here were all NTSC and fully compatible with North America, and the ones that weren't released here were all imported from NA (PS1 and PS2 for example). Converters were famous for TVs that did not support NTSC consoles.

Also, on the Bomberman thing. It's not terrible, but it's certainly bad enough. The one thing that's indeed completely awful was the music which they composed a new OST and it's just... Poop:



Spoiler



PC Engine:


Mega Drive/Genesis:


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 16, 2014)

These similarities are kind of broad, to be honest. Any of those similarities could be tagged to a number of other consoles, not just the Wii U.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

Music on the Mega Drive/Genesis was specific in general - the system has an easily recognizable _"metallic", "grunge"_ sound to it which is somewhat charming, actually. Its sound is one of a kind, different than anything else from its time, so any and all ports _"suffer"_ or _"benefit"_ from the sound tracks being re-worked or made from scratch, depending on how you look at it.


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## cracker (Aug 16, 2014)

The PSP did Remote Play first with the PS3 well before the Wii U.


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## matpower (Aug 16, 2014)

cracker said:


> The PSP did Remote Play first with the PS3 well before the Wii U.


It was kinda limited iirc, Nintendo fully fleshed the concept and that fully fleshed concept was integrated between the PS4 and the Vita AFAIK.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Aug 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's hard to judge whether the TurboGrafx-16 was stronger or weaker than the competition based solely on the fact that the CPU was 8-bit, the length of the word does not equate processing power. You could still get comparable and often times superior results on the hardware, especially after connecting the numerous peripherals.
> 
> http://www.sega-16.com/2009/12/side-by-side-ys-iii-genesis-snes-tg-16/
> 
> Just a few side-by-sides to demonstrate my point.


 

For me that gen pretty much broke down to 2 technical differences, number of colors on screen and sound. That left the Genesis in 3rd place on both counts. 64 colors VS hundreds for the other two and the sound while not horrid.... was not equal to the other two and required really talented people to not make your ears bleed. Really the sound issue on the Genesis still blows my mind to this day, I rented the system at launch and probably like 20 times before the SNES launched. Game sound ran from awesome like Sonic or meh like Herzog Zwei (Yeah I had to look up the spelling lol) then as the system aged it's like the sound actually got worse. Like they forgot how to program the damned sound chip or something lol

I have come to the conclusion looking at the games I liked on the Genesis, they all had great sound. I guess in my opinion terrible sound can ruin a good game.

Edit: I would say that gen counted the NeoGeo too but really that wasn't a main stream system.


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## matpower (Aug 16, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> For me that gen pretty much broke down to 2 technical differences, number of colors on screen and sound. That left the Genesis in 3rd place on both counts. 64 colors VS hundreds for the other two and the sound while not horrid.... was not equal to the other two and required really talented people to not make your ears bleed. Really the sound issue on the Genesis still blows my mind to this day, I rented the system at launch and probably like 20 times before the SNES launched. Game sound ran from awesome like Sonic or meh like Herzog Zwei (Yeah I had to look up the spelling lol) then as the system aged it's like the sound actually got worse. Like they forgot how to program the damned sound chip or something lol
> 
> I have come to the conclusion looking at the games I liked on the Genesis, they all had great sound. I guess in my opinion terrible sound can ruin a good game.


The sound thing was a model issue, Model 1 had the best sound, it got muffled and distorted on late model 1/early model 2 and got better on late model 2, model 3 had high quality sound on the same level as the Model 1, Sega CDX is a bit lucky based, there are ones with the best non Model 1 sound or some shitty ones.


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## cracker (Aug 16, 2014)

It is about who did it first, not who did it better (which is still questionable). This thread is supposed to be based on facts to support a credible argument.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> I have come to the conclusion looking at the games I liked on the Genesis, they all had great sound. I guess in my opinion terrible sound can ruin a good game.


Any of the constituents can break the whole in my opinion. If you sh*t into a strawberry shake, it's still made of milk, ice cream and strawberries, but it'll smell and taste of sh*t no matter what you do. The same applies to games - if they sound off, play off or _look_ off _(controversial argument, I know)_, you're going to notice it and once you notice it, there is no unseeing, unhearing or unplaying it - there is a problem. 


cracker said:


> It is about who did it first, not who did it better (which is still questionable).


I disagree. Let's assume that Company X makes a solution far superior to dual analog, whatever that solution might be, but the controller would be a literal dildo and to play with it you'd have to shove it deep into your butt. You wouldn't have a good time, would you? They'd be the first to implement butt controls, clearly they're the best in innovation! Nobody could possibly use their newly-invented alternative to dual analog better, for instance without the whole butt penetration thing! 

It totally is about who does what better - if we were to argue about who did what _first_ then there wouldn't be a whole lot of crowns in console land, most solutions used in video games are used earlier in other industries.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Aug 16, 2014)

matpower said:


> The sound thing was a model issue, Model 1 had the best sound, it got muffled and distorted on late model 1/early model 2 and got better on late model 2, model 3 had high quality sound on the same level as the Model 1, Sega CDX is a bit lucky based, there are ones with the best non Model 1 sound or some shitty ones.


 

That would be a problem if I had actually ever played on anything other than a launch system  

I would probably have cut off the sound completely if I had to suffer actually worse sound of one of the other models...


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## matpower (Aug 16, 2014)

cracker said:


> It is about who did it first, not who did it better (which is still questionable). This thread is supposed to be based on facts to support a credible argument.


This whole crazy thing was thought while I was going to school, I was expecting some flaws, but for that point, I wanted to show who made the actual concept, the remote play on PS3 was only for a few games and didn't work really well iirc, while Nintendo remade the concept and it got implemented on the PS4.


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## tbb043 (Aug 16, 2014)

matpower said:


> The sound thing was a model issue, Model 1 had the best sound, it got muffled and distorted on late model 1/early model 2 and got better on late model 2, model 3 had high quality sound on the same level as the Model 1, Sega CDX is a bit lucky based, there are ones with the best non Model 1 sound or some shitty ones.


 

Isn't model 3 mono sound only (unless you mod it)? I know it's got a lot of other issues.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 16, 2014)

it's nintendo and their archaic ways that's the fault and why the wiiu is failing.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 16, 2014)

Bladexdsl said:


> it's nintendo and their archaic ways that's the fault and why the wiiu is failing.


Well to be fair, they weren't "archaic" until Sony and Microsoft decided not to include backwards compatibility.

I say we group all these "What's wrong with the Wii U" threads together and throw them into the EoF or sun.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 16, 2014)

their archaic because their still using dated hardware, region codes (peeps who say these don't matter is BS) and won't meet the market. the days of doing whatever the fuck they want ARE OVER!


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## [MLG]xX420NoScopeBlazeXx (Aug 16, 2014)

Nah the Wii U's problem isn't power, or marketing, or no games. It's because no one plays CoD on Wii U. I mean when was the last time someone bought a Wii U for CoD? Almost never. If not for CoD, what's the point of buying a Wii U at all?

So yeah, the Wii U is figuratively the new Wii. Why? Cause the Wii had no CoD that people want to play. You can't say that's it's the new turbografx cause CoD didn't exist back then. So you can't compare.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 16, 2014)

Bladexdsl said:


> their archaic because their still using dated hardware, region codes (peeps who say these don't matter is BS) and won't meet the market. the days of doing whatever the fuck they want ARE OVER!


The hardware is only outdated to keep compatibility with Wii games. Wii games can't run natively on an up-to-date processor family.

@[MLG]xX440NoScopeBlazeXx I'm pretty sure you're joking, but the CoD audience is fine.  At least it was last time I played.  I got tired of Ghosts because I'd been playing it (or an equivalent of it ) for like a decade.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 16, 2014)

[MLG]xX420NoScopeBlazeXx said:


> Nah the Wii U's problem isn't power, or marketing, or no games. It's because no one plays CoD on Wii U. I mean when was the last time someone bought a Wii U for CoD? Almost never. If not for CoD, what's the point of buying a Wii U at all?
> 
> So yeah, the Wii U is figuratively the new Wii. Why? Cause the Wii had no CoD that people want to play. You can't say that's it's the new turbografx cause CoD didn't exist back then. So you can't compare.


 
10/10, best post ever.

EDIT: To stay on topic sort of, the biggest problem with the Wii U is an amalgamation of most of the issues already mentioned. It was absolutely horridly marketed, Nintendo completely flip flopped on their intended market (when it was revealed, it was a system for hardcore gamers. Now it's back to the same old casual/Nintendo fanbase), their gimmick was horribly executed (the gamepad), they still haven't blown any third party developers to get more than Mario/Zelda on their system, etc etc. Nintendo have been doing pretty terribly home console-wise for years now, and so far they _still_ haven't learned from their mistakes.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 16, 2014)

it's damn name by itself is about 50% of the problem peeps still think it's a wii!


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## Ulieq (Aug 16, 2014)

Bladexdsl said:


> it's damn name by itself is about 50% of the problem peeps still think it's a wii!


 

Na, that's just a myth. If it came with a pro controller and not a gamepad, it would have sold better.

What's wrong:

REQUIRES 2 AC ADAPTERS - why have a gamepad with a separate AC Adapter. Plus, if you need an external HD, you may need 3 AC adapters! That is mind blowing.

USB 2.0. If you require external HD, why in the world would you not use USB 3.0?

GAMEPAD: It's Heavy, it has a crap battery, it has a crap low def screen, the Analog buttons are stiff and short.

SYSTEM: Horrible black plastic that gets dusty after 5 minutes

OS: At launch, was the worst OS ever created. Startup was a pain in the ass.

GAMES: Decided to rerererererererelease NSMB instead of a new game.

NINTENDOLAND: What in the world is it, why cant you play multiplayer online when half the games require multiplayer? Why can't you use a gamepad and another procontroller? Why do you need Wiimotes when those were for the Wii??????????


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 16, 2014)

Bladexdsl said:


> it's damn name by itself is about 50% of the problem peeps still think it's a wii!


I called that the moment they announced the name.  I still meet people who think it's just a new controller.


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## wolf-snake (Aug 16, 2014)

I still think EA and somewhat Nintendo themself are to blame. EA wanted to force Origin on the Wii U which Nintendo said no to them they started to go apeshit and were the first ones to unleashe the Wii U hate bandwagon, people saw that a mayor studio was saying how bad the Wii U was and pretty much said the themself "Well if EA say it's true then it probably is" and more people started to jump on the EA Wii U hate Banwagon starting to hurt the brand. But still for a good while Nintendo didn't do anything to stop that from hapening and when they started to heavly market their stuff it was too late, the damage was allready done and the Wii U couldn't recover like everyone expected to recover. Does this mean the Wii U is doomed? No, not by a long shot. Does Nintendo need to change their tactics? Well i think it's safe to say that they have been trying to market the Wii U like never before and it seems to be working. People seems to start to raise interest on the Wii U after this past E3 and really right now is on second place in between the Xbox One and the Ps4 and it has earned that place.


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## matpower (Aug 16, 2014)

[MLG]xX420NoScopeBlazeXx said:


> Nah the Wii U's problem isn't power, or marketing, or no games. It's because no one plays CoD on Wii U. I mean when was the last time someone bought a Wii U for CoD? Almost never. If not for CoD, what's the point of buying a Wii U at all?
> 
> So yeah, the Wii U is figuratively the new Wii. Why? Cause the Wii had no CoD that people want to play. You can't say that's it's the new turbografx cause CoD didn't exist back then. So you can't compare.


 
There is CoD for the Wii and the Wii U, bro. 10/10 post btw.


tbb043 said:


> Isn't model 3 mono sound only (unless you mod it)? I know it's got a lot of other issues.


Don't forget that the Model 1 was Mono only too, unless you use the headphone jack. Also most of Model 3 issues are fixable with mods.


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## mightymuffy (Aug 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's hard to judge whether the TurboGrafx-16 was stronger or weaker than the competition based solely on the fact that the CPU was 8-bit, the length of the word does not equate processing power. You could still get comparable and often times superior results on the hardware, especially after connecting the numerous peripherals.
> 
> http://www.sega-16.com/2009/12/side-by-side-ys-iii-genesis-snes-tg-16/
> 
> Just a few side-by-sides to demonstrate my point.


Dear me I can't believe they chose that game!  Or more to the point, just one game! Especially the SNES version of that game, which I can remember the reviews at the time (I was freelancing back then) was comparable to the PS3 port of Bayonetta...... it's like the official Xbox 360 site doing a comparison review of Bayonetta and saying "OMG just look, the 360 is clearly at least twice as powerful as the PS3!!!11!' Were the game developed with the SNES (or MD for that matter) in mind the result would've been far different - Y's 3 was designed for the TG, ported to MD, and quick-port-for-launch-period SNES....

Anyway OP, your first post claiming the TG was inferior due to less bits? I suspect you've already been corrected with that one, plus extra fact: the SNES cpu was a custom 8bit one.... yet the machine was technically a league above the Megadrive (which was 16bit)
Otherwise an interesting point... the TG did well in Japan, where the Wii U is performing better than in other regions - which is the SNES and which is the Gen/MD though ehh?! I think better comparisons can be made to a closer generation though - this looks like being a repeat of the PS2/Xbox/GC if you look at the 3 main regions, and Wii U is definitely the GC - if it's lucky.....


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

mightymuffy said:


> SNES cpu was a custom 8bit one.... yet the machine was technically a league above the Megadrive (which was 16bit)


The SNES is based on a 16-bit CPU, you must be getting your specs mixed up. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDC_65816/65802
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_5A22


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## Taleweaver (Aug 16, 2014)

(note: I'm skipping over the whole debate going on. I've read it a dozillion times already)


matpower said:


> *1st - The Wii U and TG16's hardware are weaker than their rivals:*
> ...
> *2nd - They tried to innovate the VG market:*
> ...
> ...


 
While I agree with those 3 points, I think it's invalid to draw the conclusion.

1st is the easiest: since you can rank every console by their horsepower (compared to the competition in that generation), by the very definition there will always be a weakest console. However, that in itself isn't saying anything of popularity or sales.

2nd: that 'innovation' line is used with every console ever sold. Especially during E3-days. And while nintendo certainly does more than the competition with their wii and u, I really don't see how the turbografx was anything outside what is currently the norm.

3rd: can't argue much about this one. But draw a sales charts and there'll always be one in third place (assuming you're graphing more than 2, obviously).



Basically, what I'm saying is, is that I do see the similarities, but not what you're getting at. The similarities are true, but so broad that it's hard to draw anything from it. You can as well include things like "4th - they are both connected to the television" or "5th - they both have some good games and some not so good". It isn't that it's wrong, but it's true for the majority of the consoles on the market.


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Aug 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The SNES is based on a 16-bit CPU, you must be getting your specs mixed up.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDC_65816/65802
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_5A22


 

The GPU on the Genesis/Megadrive SNES and the Turbografx, this is entirely seperate from the CPU, get your facts straight


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

TeamScriptKiddies said:


> The GPU on the Genesis/Megadrive SNES and the Turbografx, this is entirely seperate from the CPU, get your facts straight


What are you on about? We weren't talking about the GPU's at all.


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## TeamScriptKiddies (Aug 16, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> What are you on about? We weren't talking about the GPU's at all.


 
Sorry didn't mean to sound snappy. Also I'm not entirely awake yet, so I didn't see those links you provided XD. I'm not too bright before I consume all my morning coffee, carry on


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

TeamScriptKiddies said:


> Sorry didn't mean to sound snappy. Also I'm not entirely awake yet, so I didn't see those links you provided XD. I'm not too bright before I consume all my morning coffee, carry on


Well, just to make things clear:

*SNES CPU:* 16-bit Ricoh 5A22 _(65C__816 core)_
*Mega Drive/Genesis CPU:* 16-bit Motorola 68000 _(16/32-bit)_  + 8-bit Zilog Z80 co-processor
*Turbografx-16 CPU:* 8-bit Hudson Soft HuC6280

Again, if we were to go by bits only, we'd have to crown the Mega Drive/Genesis as the beefiest of all three machines in terms of general processing since its main CPU can handle 32-bit operations _(despite being on a 16-bit bus)_, but we all know that's not the case. _"Bits"_ help with precision maths, but they do not directly translate to the performance of the chip.


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## GameWinner (Aug 16, 2014)

The Wii U is dead. Time to move on. :/


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## stanleyopar2000 (Aug 16, 2014)

wow...after thinking about this more and more...I wholeheartedly agree with this


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## [MLG]xX420NoScopeBlazeXx (Aug 16, 2014)

matpower said:


> There is CoD for the Wii and the Wii U, bro. 10/10 post btw.


 
Yeah but it's an inferior port that no one actually plays. You hop onto CoD4 on Xbox or PC, there's still people who play. You hop onto CoD4 for Wii, technically MW Reflex, no one plays any more. Actually, I think Nintendo shut down internet services for the Wii.

See, this is the problem with Nintendo. The Wii came after the Xbox, yet it becomes irrelevant sooner. That's retarded. Games are still coming out for the Xbox, but the Wii has been abandoned completely.

But whatever, Nintendo's probably not going to put out another home console after the Wii U. I mean the CONCEPT of a home console in Nintendo's eyes is obsolete anyways. They're turning into set-top boxes and multimedia boxes. Probably all to be replaced with Steamboxes one day.


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## Hop2089 (Aug 16, 2014)

Actually, the Vita is the next TG-16 especially when it comes to games, the WiiU has few games anywhere and almost no third party support, the Vita has games but almost all of them are in Japan (same with the TG-16/PCE). Both my Duo and Vita share the distinction of systems being utilized for mostly imports, I don't own a single Western game on either system to date and I don't recall ever owning any on my Duo as a child either unlike the 3DS in which I have some (since I have a US 2DS).


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## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2014)

Hop2089 said:


> Actually, the Vita is the next TG-16 especially when it comes to games, the WiiU has few games anywhere and almost no third party support, the Vita has games but almost all of them are in Japan (same with the TG-16/PCE). Both my Duo and Vita share the distinction of systems being utilized for mostly imports, I don't own a single Western game on either system to date and I don't recall ever owning any on my Duo as a child either unlike the 3DS in which I have some (since I have a US 2DS).


All things considered, the TG-16 was still the runt of the litter that generation which was released a bit late and used technology which belonged to the previous generation _(although it did use it extraordinarily well)_. The PSVita on the other hand steamrolled over most portab;e hardware at the time of its release, rivaling mid-to-high-end tablets. Library-wise you are correct though - not a whole lot of western-oriented software on the system, which is a shame.


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## WiiCube_2013 (Sep 11, 2014)

Does TurboGrafx16 have a cult following? No one really talks about it, it's more about NES, SNES, NGC or rare/expensive games for the Sega consoles (Saturn, Dreamcast).

Wii U will turn into a cult console but that's due to how poorly Nintendo handled it.


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## matpower (Sep 11, 2014)

WiiCube_2013 said:


> Does TurboGrafx16 have a cult following? No one really talks about it, it's more about NES, SNES, NGC or rare/expensive games for the Sega consoles (Saturn, Dreamcast).
> 
> Wii U will turn into a cult console but that's due to how poorly Nintendo handled it.


I have seen a lot of love for the TG16 in most retrogaming communities, since it got some exclusive titles and a lot of nice shooters.


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## Pleng (Sep 12, 2014)

Taleweaver said:


> I think it's invalid to draw the conclusion.
> 
> 1st is the easiest: since you can rank every console by their horsepower (compared to the competition in that generation), by the very definition there will always be a weakest console. However, that in itself isn't saying anything of popularity or sales.
> 
> ...


 
Umm except points 1 and 3 there are clearly _not_ true from the majority of the consoles on the market...


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## Taleweaver (Sep 12, 2014)

Pleng said:


> Umm except points 1 and 3 there are clearly _not_ true from the majority of the consoles on the market...


 
Sorry, but I really have no idea what you're saying here. Are you disagreeing with MY points 1 and 3 or the ones from the OP?


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## Pleng (Sep 12, 2014)

You are saying that the similarities the OP listed are so broad that they could be applied to any console...

but "it's the weakest of its generation" and "it's the worst selling console of its generation" (clearly) can't be applied to any console...


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## WiiCube_2013 (Sep 19, 2014)

Regardless of what becomes of it -- It'll certainly be another of Nintendo's cult consoles which people in years will want to own and its games, so this time around I've gotten them early.

Still haven't bought Wind Waker HD but there's no hurry anyway.


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