# Piracy not a crime in European Union



## MaHe (Apr 17, 2007)

From now on, piracy is legal in European Union, if you're not making any profit with it (and I think most of us here don't).

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/.../default_en.htm

Hooray for Europe!


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## aj421 (Apr 17, 2007)

Yay Scurvy


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## Jax (Apr 17, 2007)

YEAH!

This is awesome news!


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## MaHe (Apr 17, 2007)

Actually, after a more throurough reading, it's not a criminal act anymore (and therefore legal).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Maybe a lawyer can explain things better.


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## aj421 (Apr 17, 2007)

must put on digg


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## hanman (Apr 17, 2007)

maybe i misunderstood the article, but i think it was just saying that piracy and other non-profit crime was exclude from this particular directive; not that it was now legal.  wouldn't each country still have their own laws against piracy?


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## pottageb (Apr 17, 2007)

Yeah all those words in there mean nothing to me :S

Can someone translate lol?


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## Harsky (Apr 17, 2007)

Whoo... the idea of police bursting in through my door because I burned and played an ISO or played a ROM on my DS is less likely. Even though I have a massive CD wallet full of pirate stuff, I have never sold any for profit. Just loaned them to friends in return for their legit DVDs which I then copy...


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## aj421 (Apr 17, 2007)

lol sounds like me


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## MaHe (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm not much of a lawyer to understand this stuff. However, somebody more experienced told me, that piracy won't be prosecuted anymore and since it's a directive of European Union, it automatically makes each country's invidual laws against piracy obsolete.

Don't ask me.


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## Hadrian (Apr 17, 2007)

Well at first I didnt think it mattered to me as I pay for most of the stuff I like (if its worth the money that is) but I do have a absolute ton of MP3's on my PC so looks like I wont be fined if I ever got caught 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




It does say non-profit, but wouldnt NOT buying something give you profit if you've would've bought it if you couldnt download something?

Sorry if that sense dont make.


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## aj421 (Apr 17, 2007)

Podted it on digg http://digg.com/business_finance/Non_Profi..._European_Union everyone digg away


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

According to this new directive, piracy with no personal profit (like downloading ROMs or ripping DVDs for your own use) will be decriminalized; it will still be illegal, but prosecuting kids for having a few ROMs is more trouble than it's worth. Anti-piracy efforts will be turned towards counterfeit CDs/DVDs, which are a greater loss for the industry, and towards people making profit (and I'm talking _major_ profit) off bootleg software. 


Bah, I don't care either way; I have to pay a piracy fee on any mass storage device I buy, which means I can use bootleg all I want. I'm still pissed at that. There are ads in the yellow pages advertising pirate games and software, yet _I_ (well, _everyone_) have to pay a piracy fee.


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## MaHe (Apr 17, 2007)

Huh. Can a mod change the topic title to something more appropriate?
In the heat of excitement, I wrote _legal_ in it, which may not be correct, according to veho.


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## Cyberdude93 (Apr 17, 2007)

Um...I'm no lawyer, but from what I make it, all this does is make for-profit piracy criminal in all EU countries.  It just says that non-profit piracy isn't included in the directive, EU countries CAN still carry out their own criminal laws on this.

Am I wrong?

Also, this is a month old.  If it did decriminalise piracy, methinks we'd have all heard of it by now in non-legalese


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## OrR (Apr 17, 2007)

That piracy is not a criminal offence doesn't mean that they can't sue you for compensation through civil law, though, does it?
Well, at least it sounds like sane legislation.


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## Da-Huntha (Apr 17, 2007)

Wait, piracy was ever enforced here?


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## MaHe (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Cyberdude93 @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> It just says that non-profit piracy isn't included in the directive, EU countries CAN still carry out their own criminal laws on this.
> 
> No, it's say only profit-based piracy should be prosecuted ... read the fine print (I know that this last sentence carries a certain weight of hipocrisy...
> 
> ...


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Da-Huntha @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Wait, piracy was ever enforced here?


Enforcing _piracy_?   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





GBATEMP: "Hey, _you_! What's that in your GBA?" 
Kid: "Um, um, a... a... flashcard?" 
GBATEMP: "No it isn't!"
Kid: "It's a flashcard, I swear!"
GBATEMP: "Let's see that. Hmmm, this _isn't_ a flashcard, now _is_ it?" 
Kid: "Um..."
GBATEMP: "In fact, this is a legitimate, legal copy of Pokemon Ruby, _isn't it_?" 
Kid: "No, no, I just put my M3 Lite in that so I could play it in my GBA SP..." 
GBATEMP: "_Don't_ give me that crap, kid. This is a legally bought cartrige. Don't you know we enforce piracy around here?" 
Kid: "No, it's not even mine! I borrowed it! I got it for Christmas! From my Grandma!" 
GBATEMP: "I'm not buying that! Let's go, sonny!" 
Kid: "Noooo! I have a flashcard! I have ROMs at home! Tons of them!" 
GBATEMP: "Save it for the rabbit spider monkey." 
Kid: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" 


REMEMBER, KIDS   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



WE ENFORCE _PIRACY_ HERE   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





(We'll allow software Ninjitsu, though   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  )


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## Da-Huntha (Apr 17, 2007)

Here = europe.
Context. Context.

And with enforce, I mean the force acting properly to it.

The force = Police.


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

I got what you were saying, but the joke was too good to miss. 

And the police _enforce_ the law. That means, they make sure it's obeyed, by force if neccessairy.


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## Da-Huntha (Apr 17, 2007)

Yeah I just said that.


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

The police enforce the law, they don't enforce piracy. Enforcing piracy would mean they _make_ people use pirate software (on pain of pain).


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## Da-Huntha (Apr 17, 2007)

Sure, why not.


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## Icarus (Apr 17, 2007)

Did anyone actually get into trouble from pirating ever ? 
Everyone downloads their music or movies from the internet, there's absolutly nothing they can do about this.


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## adgloride (Apr 17, 2007)

Fitting a mod chip or modifying a console in anyway is still illegal.  This you need in order to run pirate software.  I don't know if this counts for things like the R4 which you don't need to modify anything at all.


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(filozof @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Did anyone actually get into trouble from pirating ever ?


Well, yes. 

(Okay, this wasn't in Europe, Google hates me. But there were occasions in Europe too.)


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## megabug7 (Apr 17, 2007)

Maybe they will ban DVD/CD writers or basically anything that can copy media of any type.... 

Problem solved.

Or... not?


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## Sinkhead (Apr 17, 2007)

Awesome news. I'm sure there's technicalities though

- Sam


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## Bowser128 (Apr 17, 2007)

Am I reading something different to everyone else here?

From what I can see, the proposed directive is just to make 'for-profit piracy' prosecution uniformly harsh throughout the EU. It says piracy for private use is excluded from the directive, as they have no plans to make it any more harsh, or to impose any EU wide measures against it. *They aren't proposing decriminalisation*, they are just making clear that current legislation on 'private use piracy' is not something they want to change in their directive.





QUOTE(filozof @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Did anyone actually get into trouble from pirating ever ?



Actually yes, recently there were quite a few legal cases (and subsequent massive fines) against some Limewire users.


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## Codemasterflex (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(adgloride @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Fitting a mod chip or _modifying a console in anyway_ is still illegal.


I doubt painting your console is illegal anywhere.


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## MajinGohan (Apr 17, 2007)

Why should modifying/altering  your property be illegal?
Modchips don´t necessarily have to be used for piracy, either.


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## ishin (Apr 17, 2007)

And it piracy IS illegal >_> Here in the Netherlands anyway.
Why else would almost all dvd's feature an intro mentioning the 160.000 euro fine ( somewhere in that direction anyway ) you'll get for piracy


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## MaHe (Apr 17, 2007)

Interesting enough, piracy isn't illegal in Slovenia. We do have a Anti-Piracy Association, but it's just a bunch of morons making lawsuits and stuffing the profits in their pocket (if they win lawsuits, anyways). In short - they don't do any good.


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## thegame07 (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Fission @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Maybe they will ban DVD/CD writers or basically anything that can copy media of any type....
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Or... not?



Dvd writers and cd writers are not just made to burn illegal stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Lets just say the gbatemp members wish to put thier song on a cd. Now you sayed they might ban writers i dont think so because then the gbatemp song could not be put on a disc. Also people like to back up thier files from a pc to a disc. Writers dont need to be used for piracy.


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## ishin (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(thegame07 @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Fission @ Apr 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe they will ban DVD/CD writers or basically anything that can copy media of any type....
> ...



What you're saying is true, who says a writer or dvd's will be used for piracy, it's legal to make a back-up of your own stuff, it get's illegal when you sell it


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(ishin @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> it's legal to make a back-up of your own stuff, it get's illegal when you sell it


Depends from country to country. In some countries it's even illegal to have or make backups of stuff you own.


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## xbman (Apr 17, 2007)

It's a waste of time and money to go after someone downloading music, roms, etc. They aren't the ones "costing" the industry. It those that dump, rip, duplicate, etc that are the main contributors as without them people wouldn't have such easy access to "pirated" goods.

Not to mention that all these losses are "perceived" losses - not real. I guarantee that most people who download stuff had no intentions of purchasing them in the first place - so companies are not losing potential sales as those sales never would have happened in the first place - but there is a loss and of course they need to protect themselves.

Aside from hearing about some people in the US that received "notification" about illegal mp3 downloads, etc. it does not appear to be common that anyone here gets into any sort of trouble just for downloading something. Not sure about other countires, but the point is, I don't think this announcement really means anything. 

It's like the war on drugs. You can focus on and arrest people who buy them for thier own use, but unless you go after the dealers, etc you aren't doing anything to win the war - same with piracy.


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## Codemasterflex (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(xbman @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> It those that dump, rip, duplicate, etc that are the main contributors as without them people wouldn't have such easy access to "pirated" goods.


And also release those dumps, rips, and duplicates to the public, otherwise it would just be making a personal backup.


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## xbman (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Codemasterflex @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(xbman @ Apr 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > It those that dump, rip, duplicate, etc that are the main contributors as without them people wouldn't have such easy access to "pirated" goods.
> > And also release those dumps, rips, and duplicates to the public, otherwise it would just be making a personal backup.



Correct - I was referring to publicly realeasing / duplicating / selling, as you point out otherwise it would just be a backup.


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## jumpman17 (Apr 17, 2007)

What's the European Union? Is that just Europe?


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## Harsky (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> What's the European Union? Is that just Europe?


It's a l33t group... oh and Switzerland and Norway can't join. They peed in the punch bowl last time they got invited


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## jaxxster (Apr 17, 2007)

Its a collection of various European countries. Im not sure how it works but they all have a set of rules for each country to follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union


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## Veho (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(jaxxster @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Its a collection of various European countries.


Collect'em all!


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## Scoobos (Apr 17, 2007)

EU rule is only enforced in countries with the Euro - so not the UK, Turkey or Switzerland to name the ones I can remember.
A good guide to this is probably the Schengen_Agreement - whos in is in, and whos out is half in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo/en/Wi...t/Schengen.html or http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/...engen/13508.stm for those real fact freaks (like me)

It makes sense and a more sensible explanation (as a search of the BBC will find) is aimed more at those that copy 24 off the tv using a DVD Recorder; rather than participating in what is an organised and co-ordinated duplication ring. (It is my view that activity such as ripping, duping, downloading as a community is a definition of a Piracy Ring)

infringements deliberately carried out to obtain a commercial advantage

Is a pretty ambigious term - do not be too mislead by that sentence, although it can be implied as it is here, it could also be implied that there is no commercial advantage to recording , say, Coronation Street - as there is no point of sale charge for it.

Copying a hot new Wii game (after its in the shops, before its retail falls into the area above, no point of sale charge) is definately at "commercial advantage" - to exactly 39.99 in Great British Pounds.

My "half educated" two cents !


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## OrR (Apr 17, 2007)

No, EU law doesn't have anything to do with the €uro. The UK definitely has to follow EU laws even though they want to keep their crappy currency...


QUOTE(MaHe @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> Interesting enough, piracy isn't illegal in Slovenia. We do have a Anti-Piracy Association, but it's just a bunch of morons making lawsuits and stuffing the profits in their pocket (if they win lawsuits, anyways). In short - they don't do any good.
> 
> Sounds like everywhere else to me...
> 
> ...


Well, the new EU law might change that and it's probably bullshit to begin with.


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## MajinGohan (Apr 17, 2007)

EU law applies to any country in the European Union, not just the ones with the Euro.


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## Strider (Apr 17, 2007)

QUOTE(MajinGohan @ Apr 17 2007 said:


> EU law applies to any country in the European Union, not just the ones with the Euro.




Agreed.

Also I agree to several posts which state that what the thread starter stated is not true. The (local) laws haven't changed, and are not touched by the new rule in discussion. That's all.

On banning burners: Let me just say that banning knives will not stop murderers. Never.

So, sorry to say, this thread is quite pointless (not at the thread starter's fault  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## Scoobos (Apr 18, 2007)

Whilst I agree with the sentiment regarding the EU laws, it is pretty much the case that it is ignored in most of the non agreement countries. In the UK its terrible how the EU law really doesn't mean anything.

Continuing to contribute to this "Pointless Thread"... (why pointless? its actually one of the few sensible discussions on this site)


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