# thaddius' Console Roast 2014 Edition - Round 5



## thaddius (Mar 13, 2014)

Welcome back to _thaddius’ Console Roast 2014 Edition_. For those of you who are not aware this is a poll where you, the GBATemp user, get to vote on what GBATemp thinks is the worst console ever is. For more information check out the Rules section below.

*Recap:*

Not even a fair competition, if you ask me. After another flurry of votes a definite 'winner' has emerged. Congratulations to:






*The Watara/QuickShot SuperVision!* Despite the general ire toward the Game Gear or the Lynx it wasn't enough to distract people from what was really bothering them in the late 80s, early 90s: The Watara SuperVision. Maybe it's because it looks like supervision, which is a dumb name for a system (believe me, there are worse ones!), maybe it's because it offended the sensibilities of those who actually owned a Game Boy, of which the SuperVision was a pale comparison. Whatever the reason it has been selected as GBATemp's least favourite handheld of the fourth generation.

For more information on how the voting went, you can check out last week's thread here.

*Intro:*

As we ease out of the handhelds of the fourth generation we throw you toward the consoles. And thus we enter the great Console Wars of the early 90s. You might recognize a few of these but this generation was all about just two competitors in the Western market: The Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Both had their flaws, and both had a dearth of amazing games. It's going to be very hard to say negative things about them, but then again I don't expect they'll make it to the next round.

My predictions: there's one obvious eyesore of a console that stands out this generation. And unlike previous generations where people would (most likely) blindly vote for the system they had never heard of, I think everyone here knows what it is and may have heard a thing or two about it. As always I encourage you to head out to YouTube and watch a few reviews on these consoles. You just might learn something. 

But before we get to that, let's recap the rules no know ever reads!

*Rules:*



Spoiler



There can only be one!

Each week I pit each console generation against itself to determine what the worst console of that generation was. Updates will hopefully be up every Thursday from now till the end.

We’re going to work our way up through consoles and handhelds until we reach the current generation. Once that’s all done, we’ll determine the worst console and the worst handheld. From there we choose the definitive GBATemp-approved WORST CONSOLE EVER.

Your only job, Mr. or Miss GBATemper, is to cast your vote for what you think the worst of the generation is. Please try to do some research, watch some videos, maybe play a few of these games on a (completely legitimate) emulator, and you just might learn a little about the weird amorphous blob that is video game history. But I can't (and won't) keep you from just shooting from the uninformed hip. You're also encouraged to explain your choice in the form of a response to this topic. 

In the event of a tie, I (Sir thaddius prigg) will cast the deciding vote. It is my Roast after all...

Aggressive discussion is allowed, but please try to keep within the rules of the forums. Just try to have fun and don’t be a jerk, k?


Enough of that crap, time to get started!

*This Week's Challengers:*

*The NEC PC Engine/Turbo GrafX-16/TurboGrafX*




This machine with the a million names was released way back in 1987 in Japan as the PC Engine, in 1989 in North America as the TurboGrafX-16, and in 1990 in Europe as simply the TurboGrafX.

While it performed quite well in Japan, it never quite made a foothold anywhere else… You’d be very hard pressed to find anyone in the West who owned one growing up.


I’ve had very little experience with this console and am left with the impression that it’s a system only for Bonk and shmups.

NEC would end up releasing a bunch of peripherals, add-ons, and so many different versions of this console (mostly in Japan where people actually played the thing) that I'm not going to recount them here.

*The Sega Mega Drive/Genesis*




Sega just couldn’t get a break. The NES rustled their Master System jimmies and when Sega released its Genesis in Japan it was in direct competition with the PC Engine, which it never really fared well against. The release of the Super FAMICOM just made things worse and relegated the Genesis to third place there.

Sega managed to eke out a portion of the North American and European (called the Mega Drive there) markets with their aggressive ad campaigns but could never quite catch up with the Super Nintendo. Sega would go on to released a dearth of versions of the console and add-ons for the system, none of which are worth getting into, IMHO.

I have always been kind of fascinated by the sound synthesizer on this machine. It sounds really odd. Kind of in a grating way. I’m sure that sound means nostalgia for some, but for me it was too heavy in the saw waves.

*The SNK Neo Geo AES*




Arcade games? At home?! On your TV?! How can you lose?? Well… when you launch the system at $650US you can kind of go wrong there.

The quality of the software was never in question - Neo Geo machines were some of the best machines at the local arcade. But the buy-in was just too much. The individual games and extra controllers weren’t cheap either. You really have to wonder what they were thinking.

*The Super FAMICOM/Super Nintendo Entertainment System*




Despite being 4 years late to the next gen party the SNES managed to outsell… well… everyone. Building off the raucous success of the NES, the SNES seemed to have been released at the right time.

Unlike Atari, Nintendo didn’t really suffer from the release of their second major console and was not stigmatized by lack of backwards compatibility and no one was really complaining about the system being released too soon after the NES. If anything people were clamouring for an update by 1991.

Nintendo’s adherence to a self imposed code of not wanting to offend anyone left the public with the impression that Nintendo was a very ‘kiddy’ company, in addition to video games being considered a 'childs' market at the time. This mentality rose to the surface at the height of the ‘console wars’ that Sega spurred in North America when Mortal Kombat was released on both the SNES and the Genesis. The SNES version lacked blood and gore, while the Genesis relished in what it spun as a more faithful port of the arcade hit. In the end it didn’t matter which game had blood and which didn’t - the game was violent no matter what. The ensuing parental rage led to the creation of a ESRB in North America - a system that parents would either ignore or be wholly ignorant of for decades.

Last time around the SNES made it to the semi-finals as GBATemp’s most preferred console, so I’d be very surprised to see it garner too many votes this time.

*The Phillips CDi*




Spawned from a failed deal between Nintendo and Sony, the Phillips CDi was supposed to be the Super Nintendo’s CD add-on to compete with the Sega CD. I guess Nintendo figured that they didn’t need it (they didn’t) and cut Phillips loose.

The CDi is fondly/notoriously remembered for its Mario and Zelda games whose licences they were awarded as part of their deal with Nintendo.


Now… those of you who weren’t really around for this generation might not be able to appreciate the horror that was CD-based console games, a large portion of which fell into the ‘edutainment’ category (it bothers me that edutainment is a word that isn’t being picked up by my spellcheck). CDs meant that the use of Full Motion Video (FVM, usually in MPEG-1) was now possible in video games. And a lot of people who would not normally have made video games decided to start. The CDi, as the only CD-based console I’m going to talk about this generation, will be a herald of the things to come: when the market became flooded once again by mediocre titles.

*Outro:*

So there you have it. For your consideration, GBATemp, the fourth generation of consoles. I have nothing else to say on the matter. Happy voting!

*Current Standings:*



Spoiler


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2014)

No contest and no explanation required, I think.


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## thaddius (Mar 13, 2014)

Shall I call it?


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## Nah3DS (Mar 13, 2014)

just look at the dust on that console


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## DinohScene (Mar 13, 2014)

CDi.
Dat full motion.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 13, 2014)

Finally...a poll where I have actually some knowledge on each of the contenders. 

-Never seen the turbografx in real life, but going from emulators, the games weren't that bad. It's my runner-up in the 'worst console', but I have a feeling it's mostly for marketing reasons.
-the mega drive and the SNES really need no introduction. While it was certainly a time where as a kid you couldn't stay neutral in the field, it had to be said that they both had a solid line-up and performed well. The SNES had Mario and Zelda while the mega drive had Sonic and somehow felt more mature (while things like the no-blood mortal kombat were true, it was mostly something used in furious pre-teen arguments).
-the neo geo was something for the rich kids. But I think that anyone my age who even glanced at it through electronic's store windows would admit that the quality of games were above what the consoles were doing. It also serves as the prime example that the best console doesn't win the generation. In the end, it simply cost too much (Christ...at one point, I had an ambition of "when I grow up, I want to buy a neo geo. And MY OWN TV FOR IT". It sorta ended when I calculated just how long I would have to wait until I would be able to buy it on pocket money).

Which leaves the clear winner...
-the CDi. If someone that day and age had said his parents bought him* a turbografx, we would have been interested. Perhaps for mocking it for not being as good as sega/nintendo, but at least for something interesting. If said person would have said he had gotten a CDi, we would feel sorry for him, as getting that console meant that you wouldn't get an ACTUAL console (getting more than one console as a kid was unheard of in my area). Yes...I remember "edutainment". It meant learning instead of having fun. On hindsight, philips probably marketed it to parents, but those were more concerned with the social stigma a CDi would give their child they didn't buy it. Or at least that I know of**. I remember being curious about that 7th guest which looked suspiciously "like a game", but anything else was something to stay away from.
I must admit never having seen or even heard of the atrocities that were Hotel Mario and that "Excuuuuuuuse me"-Zelda game until much later. But by then, the CDi was already dead and buried...







*this was in that time period where girls were these critters you DO NOT SPEAK TO. And generally you didn't, as they didn't do anything interesting anyway.
**Christ...I should ask this at my next re-union. It's quite possible that some of 'em HAD a CDi but wisely kept their mouth shut about it.


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## Gahars (Mar 13, 2014)

I voted Neo Geo because I want to know if I can make emigre mad.

Wish me luck!


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## frogboy (Mar 13, 2014)

I knew the moment I saw "Phillips"...


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2014)

Essentially the Mega Drive/Genesis was the unquestionable leader of the generation until the SNES/Super Famicom came along _(although nobody *really* knows how many Mega Drive/Genesis systems were actually sold, all we have is estimates)_, the Turbo Grafx-16/PC Engine showed that there's still a lot of steam in 8-bit and was popular in the east, the Neo Geo was the expensive system that everybody secretly wanted and salivated over, but never reached popularity since it was incredibly expensive... and then there's the CD-i...

The Philips CD-i's problem was that... it just wasn't a good _console_. It was a a sign of things to come, it was a big step up from VHS in terms of home entertainment, but the whole _"gaming"_ part of the equation became grossly overlooked. Moreover, developers started cutting corners big time - just because you can scan a painting, add a collision map and call it a level doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Long story short, it was more so a proto-DVD player than a console, really... which makes it a terrible console - perfect choice for this kind of a poll.


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## tbgtbg (Mar 13, 2014)

> Maybe it's because it looks like supervision, which is a dumb name for a system (believe me, there are worse ones!), maybe it's because it offended the sensibilities of those who actually owned a Game Boy, of which the SuperVision was a pale comparison.



Maybe because it's an obscure piece of junk almost no one had ever even heard of and shouldn't have even been in the poll.   


This round, I'd be shocked if CDI didn't win (deservedly so out of this bunch), but at least all these systems are ones people heard of before.



BTW, what's with the logo on that TurboGrafx? Looks totally different than the one usually on the system.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> Maybe because it's an obscure piece of junk almost no one had ever even heard of and shouldn't have even been in the poll.  This round, I'd be shocked if CDI didn't win (deservedly so out of this bunch), but at least all these systems are ones people heard of before.


If a system was mainsteam, aka _"available in your local electronics store"_ then it has a place in the poll, and the Supervision was mainstream in that sense. It wasn't popular, but it was available, so there.


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## XDel (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm REALLY not sure how anything but the CD-i gets any votes. There was only 1 good game for the system. That Cyber Punk game... hmm, what was it called?

Anyhow, it's a shame the CD-i did not remain a SNES add on as intended. With the SNES's horse power, that CD-ROM expansion could have really sung, especially with Square and Enyx developing for it!


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## cdoty (Mar 14, 2014)

1 Neo Geo vote was a joke, but what about the other 5? Console envy, I'm guessing.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2014)

cdoty said:


> 1 Neo Geo vote was a joke, but what about the other 5? Console envy, I'm guessing.


Pretty much. The Neo Geo was like fine wine - expensive and not for the plebeians who wouldn't understand why it's so exquisite.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 14, 2014)

Ahh finally a poll were I have had some hands on time with all of the consoles in question. (Hell I still own 3 of them now...)

Really it breaks down to well ummm just the CD-i... Anyone who voted for anything else that wasn't joking should be burned at the stake.

ALL of the other consoles are worth owning and have redeeming qualities, I mean sure the NeoGeo is over priced for what it was but oh for that sweet sweet Nam 1975... It's worth it all just for that game alone lol

TG-16 doesn't need anything more than Blazing Lazers to justify it's existence!!! lol (But honestly it had a lot of great games.)

Genesis and Super Nintendo? Where do you even start talking about some of the best games ever made, games that are still fun to play to this day?

That reminds me, I need to schedule some time to complete the Genesis Phantasy Star games.... Was too busy back in the day with my SNES with FFIII, Chrono, Zelda, SMW, Metroid, Castlevania IV to dig too deep into the Genesis (Loved Sonic, Road Rash, Herzog, and some other games though.)


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## Qtis (Mar 14, 2014)

I think this round was a fair game. 

"And the winner is...!"


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## TemplarGR (Mar 14, 2014)

Seriously, there are people here that voted SNES and Mega drive/Genesis as the worst? The worst? AKA all the others were better?

For some people it seems the console war never stopped....

CDi is the obvious choice here, although i don't really believe it is a direct comparison. CDi was more of a media player/entertainment device than a dedicated gaming console.

So if we excluded it and focused on gaming machines, the worst would be chosen between Neo Geo and Turbo Grafx.

Since both had less than stellar gaming libraries*, i would pick Neo Geo since it was far too expensive for what it offered. Seriously, more costly doesn't always mean better product, and you do not always get what you pay for...

*Unless you think stupid arcade games designed to be flashy and difficult in order to get your coins are good games and suitable for a home console...


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## codezer0 (Mar 14, 2014)

The TG-16's biggest failures were simply...

It came out too late to compete effectively against the 8-bit NES. It was an 8-bit machine with a 16-bit GPU.
It lacked then-advanced A/V output options; nowadays, it almost requires hardware soldering mods to be done.
It was marketed in the US the same way it was marketed in Japan. While NEC & Hudson's marketing strategy to show ads in the major cities was effective in Japan, they tried to do the same thing in a country that is more than 20x its landmass (USA). The only reason I even know _of_ the Turbografx-16 was from magazines like _EGM_ and _GamePro_.
And in Japan, there were over a dozen re-releases and new models made 
As for the Sega Genesis?

Newer models were progressively worse
The add-ons, man. The add-ons.
The original model couldn't give you stereo from the A/V out; it had to be extracted from the headphone jack.
The only way to get the optimal video quality from the machine was by bypassing the stupid video encoder chips and get RGB... which of course was never available here in America.
As for the Neo Geo, simply... it was ludicrously expensive.

For the SNES? The original intent was to have a separate slot to support NES games, which would have been fantastic. The more frustrating thing about the SNES was that it like the majority of Nintendo consoles had yet another mystery expansion port that was never used - or at least, used here in the states.

Finally, for the CD-i... it wasn't even really a _console_. It seemed like an early multimedia PC that had been converted to a console system.


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## cracker (Mar 14, 2014)

The 3DO was totally forgotten about in this poll. Maybe that makes it the honorary winner? Actually it was a really good system for its time but was put to an early death by the PSX.  I have one that I keep for a very occasional play. The controllers were pretty bad but there were some pretty fun games: Road Rash, NFS (very first one), Return Fire, Way of the Warrior (so bad in so many ways but it has nice graphics and White Zombie), ...


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## orcid (Mar 14, 2014)

The CD-I wanted to be the "all-in-one entertaiment system" many years before microsoft created this slogan for the xbox one, but it was far too early in matters of the technical possiblities and a poor attempt. It is an easy vote. But I give my respect to the CD-I for having all the features of a modern consoles 20 years ago: games, movies, karaoke, music, internet.


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## TemplarGR (Mar 14, 2014)

One thing i forgot to mention: The CD-i shouldn't be included with this generation. It was early fifth generation, not fourth, together with the 3DO, Jaguar, Amiga32 etc...


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## cracker (Mar 14, 2014)

That's true. I guess the 3DO will be on the next poll and will probably survive what with the Jaguar on the list.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> For the SNES? The original intent was to have a separate slot to support NES games, which would have been fantastic.


That sounds terrible, actually _(unless it was one-slot-fits-all, which would be acceptable)_. So it's not a recent trend and Nintendo was always clinging to the past? Duly noted. 




TemplarGR said:


> One thing i forgot to mention: The CD-i shouldn't be included with this generation. It was early fifth generation, not fourth, together with the 3DO, Jaguar, Amiga32 etc...


That's incorrect. The CD-i was released in 1991 and it was a console of the fourth generation.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 14, 2014)

As a devoted Zelda fan, the very existence of the CDi offends me. No contest.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 14, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> As a devoted Zelda fan, the very existence of the CDi offends me. No contest.


 

You haven't been fully offended by it until you actually play the machine.... Then you will know what real pain is. lol


Edit: I wonder what gen the Pioneer Laser Active is and what console would it be considered? I mean it had TG-16 as an expansion or Sega Genesis or it's own games then games on Laser disk for both of those systems. (I keep checking all the local thrift stores and I still have never seen the machine or any parts or any of the laser disk games.)

Edit 2: I guess I could just break down and ebay the thing... lol 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LD-Console-...pt=FR_Jeux_Vidéo_Consoles&hash=item23370b193d


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## cracker (Mar 14, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That's incorrect. The CD-i was released in 1991 and it was a console of the fourth generation.



It was considered "next-gen" back then by most. Though it didn't have a competitor for a while (3DO being the first).


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 14, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> You haven't been fully offended by it until you actually play the machine.... Then you will know what real pain is. lol


 
Don't remind me... The Unholy Triforce is still on my to-play list.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 14, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Don't remind me... The Unholy Triforce is still on my to-play list.


 

For some reason I had a vision pop into my head of Pinhead from Hellraiser saying "We have such sights to show you!"


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2014)

cracker said:


> It was considered "next-gen" back then by most. Though it didn't have a competitor for a while (3DO being the first).


By that logic, so should the Super Nintendo _(1990)_ and the Neo Geo _(1991)_. The general consensus is that the fifth generation started in 1993 with the release of the 3DO.

Honestly though, the status of the CD-i as a console in and out of itself is somewhat debatable - it was more of an interactive media player standard than a console even more so than the 3DO, the whole console part was tacked onto, which is reflected by the design of the various CD-i's out there.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 14, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> By that logic, so should the Super Nintendo _(1990)_ and the Neo Geo _(1991)_. The general consensus is that the fifth generation started in 1993 with the release of the 3DO.
> 
> Honestly though, the status of the CD-i as a console in and out of itself is somewhat debatable - it was more of an interactive media player standard than a console even more so than the 3DO, the whole console part was tacked onto, which is reflected by the design of the various CD-i's out there.


 

Yeah I always considered the 3DO as that system that tried to jump ahead of the competition but costed way too much in the process. I mean it was awesome and did give me my first taste of Road Rash like I had never seen before... but that price tag about made me pass out. I am not sure exactly but I think the store near me that was selling it wanted something like $749.99 or some super crazy price (Walmart, might have had some pack in games or a spare controller or something.) and I about shit myself lol God that was so long ago....

Edit: Weird to me that the NeoGeo holds it's value pretty well, while the 3DO is almost dirt cheap these days. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001BO2O1C/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Yeah I always considered the 3DO as that system that tried to jump ahead of the competition but costed way too much in the process. I mean it was awesome and did give me my first taste of Road Rash like I had never seen before... but that price tag about made me pass out. I am not sure exactly but I think the store near me that was selling it wanted something like $749.99 or some super crazy price (Walmart, might have had some pack in games or a spare controller or something.) and I about shit myself lol God that was so long ago....
> 
> Edit: Weird to me that the NeoGeo holds it's value pretty well, while the 3DO is almost dirt cheap these days.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001BO2O1C/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all


Everything depends on the state of the machine - a lot of 3DO's out there no longer function properly and the systems vary in build quality. Counting on a tested and working 3DO under $100 is counting on a miracle, which do happen sometimes, but that's a matter of luck and auctions.

The big problem the 3DO had was that there wasn't really an original 3DO system - the 3DO was a design that was sold to other companies which made the consoles themselves. A lot of people simplify things to _"Panasonic 3DO"_, but that's not really accurate - the 3DO was designed by... The 3DO Company, and manufactured by Panasonic, Sanyo and GoldStar. It was a license-based system, and this caused massive inconsistencies in design of the systems. Panasonic 3DO's happen to be the best out of the bunch, or so I hear, but 3DO as a _"system"_ was a standard rather than one specific console, kinda like the CD-i, but to a much larger extent.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 14, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Everything depends on the state of the machine - a lot of 3DO's out there no longer function properly and the systems vary in build quality. Counting on a tested and working 3DO under $100 is counting on a miracle, which do happen sometimes, but that's a matter of luck and auctions.
> 
> The big problem the 3DO had was that there wasn't really an original 3DO system - the 3DO was a design that was sold to other companies which made the consoles themselves. A lot of people simplify things to _"Panasonic 3DO"_, but that's not really accurate - the 3DO was designed by... The 3DO Company, and manufactured by Panasonic, Sanyo and GoldStar. It was a license-based system, and this caused massive inconsistencies in design of the systems. Panasonic 3DO's happen to be the best out of the bunch, or so I hear, but 3DO as a _"system"_ was a standard rather than one specific console, kinda like the CD-i, but to a much larger extent.


 

Yeah I always think of the 3DO as the Panasonic one (it's honestly the only one I have seen in person and played.) they seemed like really high quality machines at the time. Of course they probably where suffering from bad caps that the industry seems to have problems with every few years, or maybe cheap optical drives? Or maybe some combination of those problems and some others that I don't know about lol Maybe that M2 chip is a pile of crap (I think it was a 32bit M2 chip or something in it, I am trying to resist looking it up lol)

Edit: My curiosity got the best of me... lol the M2 was the unreleased 3DO 2 machine (what ever it would have been called.) The 3DO had an ARM CPU wild that has to be the earliest ARM CPU in a machine I am aware of... (I didn't think they existed back then.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3DO_Interactive_Multiplayer


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Yeah I always think of the 3DO as the Panasonic one (it's honestly the only one I have seen in person and played.) they seemed like really high quality machines at the time. Of course they probably where suffering from bad caps that the industry seems to have problems with every few years, or maybe cheap optical drives? Or maybe some combination of those problems and some others that I don't know about lol Maybe that M2 chip is a pile of crap (I think it was a 32bit M2 chip or something in it, I am trying to resist looking it up lol)


There's a number of things that go wrong, they mostly concern the optical drive. As for the M2 chip, don't you mean the 3DO's successor, sold to Matsushita and never released in console form?

*EDIT:* Come to think of it, I've just remembered Creative Labs' take on the 3DO... the 3DO Blaster:


Spoiler















That's right, son! 3DO Quality* games on your PC!



*Mostly arse. _;O;_


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## trumpet-205 (Mar 14, 2014)

Is that ISA expansion card?

Geez, never seen that before.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2014)

trumpet-205 said:


> Is that ISA expansion card?
> 
> Geez, never seen that before.


Yep, that's an entire 3DO system on an ISA card, along with a compatible CD-ROM drive and a gamepad. With this thing in your rig you could play 3DO software on your PC, no emulation required.


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## codezer0 (Mar 15, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Yep, that's an entire 3DO system on an ISA card, along with a compatible CD-ROM drive and a gamepad. With this thing in your rig you could play 3DO software on your PC, no emulation required.


 
I would actually entertain that. Though seeing the fact that it is an ISA card implies that it's going to be limited by _really_ old hardware, too.

I know there were some oddball games on the 3DO that I would have played, and looked interesting/impressive/awesome/amusing. Problem is, growing up around that time, I don't recall any stores even carrying anything for it. Probably had a lot to do with the fact that the 3DO was released for the ludicrous price of $750USD... in 1993. Accounting for inflation, that's over $1000 for just the *expletive* console. Same with the Neo Geo. Everyone _knew_ how mindblowingly powerful it was at the time. Even to this day, its design enabled it to be a formidable 2D powerhouse. But yea, $650 MSRP at launch, plus $200~300 _per game?_ hell no.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 15, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> I would actually entertain that. Though seeing the fact that it is an ISA card implies that it's going to be limited by _really_ old hardware, too.
> 
> I know there were some oddball games on the 3DO that I would have played, and looked interesting/impressive/awesome/amusing. Problem is, growing up around that time, I don't recall any stores even carrying anything for it. Probably had a lot to do with the fact that the 3DO was released for the ludicrous price of $750USD... in 1993. Accounting for inflation, that's over $1000 for just the *expletive* console. Same with the Neo Geo. Everyone _knew_ how mindblowingly powerful it was at the time. Even to this day, its design enabled it to be a formidable 2D powerhouse. But yea, $650 MSRP at launch, plus $200~300 _per game?_ hell no.


Pretty much. Two things killed the system - incredibly high price tags put on by the manufacturers _(who probably wanted to make up for the license fee they paid to 3DO for the right to manufacture the system which was an expense on top of the already expensive components)_ and 3DO's very lenient approach to video game licensing. Nintendo and SEGA were both very restrictive in terms of what games were released on their systems _(even though many terrible titles did slip by anyways)_ and making games for their consoles did not come cheap _(hence the loads of unlicensed games like EA Games on the Genesis/Mega Drive or "Wonder Tree" games on the SNES)_ - they had a very hands-on approach to keep the quality bar relatively high_._ On the Neo Geo, the majority of the library was a first-party SNK festival of arcade titles. In the case of the 3DO, all that was required was a small fee, not to mention that CD's were a cheaper medium, which resulted in a tsunami of poor quality software. I'm assuming that Creative thought that by releasing the 3DO system as a PC expansion card, they could cut the price tag of the system down substantially - the card _"only"_ cost $399 in the states _(and $600 in Europe... __for whatever reason)_, which was less than the other 3DO systems - that's one hurdle less.


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## thaddius (Mar 15, 2014)

cracker said:


> The 3DO was totally forgotten about in this poll.


 
The 3DO is considered part of the 5th Generation (according to Wikipedia anyway, which is what I set my watch to apparently). It'll be up there in two weeks. 

Similarly the CDi is on the list for 4th Generation on Wikipedia, hence it's place in this poll.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 15, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Pretty much. Two things killed the system - incredibly high price tags put on by the manufacturers _(who probably wanted to make up for the license fee they paid to 3DO for the right to manufacture the system which was an expense on top of the already expensive components)_ and 3DO's very lenient approach to video game licensing. Nintendo and SEGA were both very restrictive in terms of what games were released on their systems _(even though many terrible titles did slip by anyways)_ and making games for their consoles did not come cheap _(hence the loads of unlicensed games like EA Games on the Genesis/Mega Drive or "Wonder Tree" games on the SNES)_ - they had a very hands-on approach to keep the quality bar relatively high_._ On the Neo Geo, the majority of the library was a first-party SNK festival of arcade titles. In the case of the 3DO, all that was required was a small fee, not to mention that CD's were a cheaper medium, which resulted in a tsunami of poor quality software. I'm assuming that Creative thought that by releasing the 3DO system as a PC expansion card, they could cut the price tag of the system down substantially - the card _"only"_ cost $399 in the states _(and $600 in Europe... __for whatever reason)_, which was less than the other 3DO systems - that's one hurdle less. I'm not entirely sure how much the games cost at launch, but $200-$300 seems like a stretch to me - I'll have to look it up.


 

The 3DO games where normal priced compared to the SNES or Genesis, when he was talking about 200-300 dollar each games he was talking about the NeoGeo. I had a friend who actually owned a small stack of those games at the time... I wouldn't touch it myself for those prices but play it at a friends house? Sure call me over I will bring the snacks! lol


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## Foxi4 (Mar 15, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> The 3DO games where normal priced compared to the SNES or Genesis, when he was talking about 200-300 dollar each games he was talking about the NeoGeo. I had a friend who actually owned a small stack of those games at the time... I wouldn't touch it myself for those prices but play it at a friends house? Sure call me over I will bring the snacks! lol


Oh yeah, I totally misread his post, my bad! 

_*Edits post appropriately*_

Well, to be fair, Neo Geo cartridges had a lot of customized _"guff"_ on them, they were practically miniaturized MVS cartridges _(on a side note, the home console Neo Geo is totally compatible with arcade MVS cartridges if you use a pass-through, which is *insane* - it's as close as you can get to having an arcade at home without actually owning arcade cabinets)_ - think NES mappers, except on cocaine and steroids, plus they were all imported goods so naturally the prices were uber-high. The Neo Geo was something you salivated over because your wealthy neighbour had one while you were forced to punch quarters into an arcade machine, weeping, dreaming of owning one yourself, not something you actually owned.


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## cracker (Mar 15, 2014)

I have a Goldstar 3DO that is in very good condition and plays everything perfectly. I just can't bring myself to selling it because I would probably miss it and want to play one of the handful of games on it that weren't crap.


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## TemplarGR (Mar 15, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That's incorrect. The CD-i was released in 1991 and it was a console of the fourth generation.


 

Nope, it is your position that is incorrect... 

1) Saying the CD-i was released in 1991 is kind of misleading. Since it was released 28 days before the end of the year, almost 1992, rushed for Christmas...

2) A generation of consoles is not about the time of release, but about a relative performance bracket. The CD-i was vastly more powerful than the rest of the systems, there was absolutely no comparison. 32 bit, 1mb main ram, cd rom, it is a joke to compare this to the 16bit systems released a few years earlier... It could only be compared to the likes of PSX and 3DO...

Another way to measure this, is by comparing the games. Suppose there was a CDROM AAA game that used 100% of the CDI's power, could it be ported to any other of the 16bit systems? The answer is obvious i believe...

For example, i don't consider the Wii a seven generation system. It was not, it was just an overclocked gamecube with a bit more RAM and a disk format that cought up PS2 and XBOX a few years late. It could never hope to play AAA multiplatform titles of the seventh generation without massive alterations to quality.

3) Since it was mentioned on this thread, the CD-i's classification as "4rth gen" comes from Wikipedia, hardly the absolute authority on the matter, let alone any matter... It is simply wrong. The CD-i was definately early fifth gen.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 15, 2014)

TemplarGR said:


> A generation of consoles is not about the time of release, but about a relative performance bracket.... The CD-i was definately early fifth gen.


 
Both of these statements are false beyond belief. I don't think there's an "official" definition of a console generation in a dictionary anywhere, but the general consensus among people is more than enough. Beyond that, the very word "generation" _implies_ a time frame, not performance bracket. if it was about power and performance, it wouldn't be _called_ a generation at all. To suggest otherwise is more than a little bit ridiculous.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 15, 2014)

I'm afraid that your personal feeling does not change the global consensus, sorry.

The CD-i was originally intended as a SNES expansion, not a brand-new system, that's for starters. The performance bracket has very little to do with system generations, it's more about the cycle of succession within given console families, and since the CD-i was Philips's first foray into the console business _and_ it was released within the time frame of the fourth generation, it's considered to be a fourth generation system, succeeded by Philips's version of the 3DO.


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## cdoty (Mar 15, 2014)

There's only one console worse that the CD-i (during this time period), and it was the Memeorex/Tandy VIS. The CD-i had a couple (literally two or three) good games; but with the VIS there isn't one good game.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 15, 2014)

cdoty said:


> There's only one console worse that the CD-i (during this time period), and it was the Memeorex/Tandy VIS. The CD-i had a couple (literally two or three) good games; but with the VIS there isn't one good game.


R-Zone kthxbye. _;O;_


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## Pleng (Mar 16, 2014)

Getting back off topic for a while, the thing I really liked about the 3D0 was the daisychaining of gamepads. I remember seeing one on a TV show and all controllers had an additional port for a new controller, alleviating the need for multitaps. It's a shame this never caught on; I find it criminal how few USB peripherals have built in hubs. I've seen a couple of keyboards on ebay but none in stores... no gamepads, modems, or cams ever featured USB hubs/'passthroughs' as far as I'm aware. Even a single USB port in a keyboard would be insanely useful.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (Mar 16, 2014)

These polls are always a joke with 1 choice being the stand out worst no matter what anyone says. I'm just speculating here but any of the votes that were for any system other than CDi were jokes and people having a good laugh.


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## TyBlood13 (Mar 16, 2014)

RchUncleSkeleton said:


> These polls are always a joke with 1 choice being the stand out worst no matter what anyone says. I'm just speculating here but any of the votes that were for any system other than CDi were jokes and people having a good laugh.


 
What possibly mean? The SNES was a complete shitbox and didn't have a _single thing _going for it. /sarcasm

Not trolling now: Yeah, the CD-i is barely a console, but at least we're at the point where the contenders are known, so I'm not calling shinanigans


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## thaddius (Mar 17, 2014)

You're all too young for some of the previous consoles, I suppose.

I'm sorry that video game history is so disappointing for you folks.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 17, 2014)

It's not a matter of age, really. Every generation, whichever it may be, always has underdog system - that's what makes them bad, and this is a poll about the worst systems in each generation. It's not thaddius's fault that in this generation every system except the CD-i was either good or at least salvagable, that's just how it actually was.


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## TemplarGR (Mar 18, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm afraid that your personal feeling does not change the global consensus, sorry.
> 
> The CD-i was originally intended as a SNES expansion, not a brand-new system, that's for starters. The performance bracket has very little to do with system generations, it's more about the cycle of succession within given console families, and since the CD-i was Philips's first foray into the console business _and_ it was released within the time frame of the fourth generation, it's considered to be a fourth generation system, succeeded by Philips's version of the 3DO.


 
It's not a "feeling". It is_* thinking *_

I explained the reasons why. No need to repeat them.

But i will ask you this:

If i release an 8 bit console today, similar to the NES, will it be a current gen system? What about all those second rate consoles that are sold for cheap? Are those 8th gen?

CD-i was 5th gen. Get over it



xwatchmanx said:


> Both of these statements are false beyond belief. I don't think there's an "official" definition of a console generation in a dictionary anywhere, but the general consensus among people is more than enough. Beyond that, the very word "generation" _implies_ a time frame, not performance bracket. if it was about power and performance, it wouldn't be _called_ a generation at all. To suggest otherwise is more than a little bit ridiculous.


 

Well, it is simple, really. The CD-i marked the beginning of the 5th generation... Who made 1993 the beginning? On what basis?

No 16 bit system (except the Jaguar) was released after 1991. So all you need to do is say that the CD-i with an almost 1992 release was the first 5th gen console. Problem solved...


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## Foxi4 (Mar 18, 2014)

TemplarGR said:


> It's not a "feeling". It is_* thinking. *_I explained the reasons why. No need to repeat them. But i will ask you this: If i release an 8 bit console today, similar to the NES, will it be a current gen system? What about all those second rate consoles that are sold for cheap? Are those 8th gen? CD-i was 5th gen. Get over it


Only according to your completely arbitrary reasoning. The system was not made to compete with any of the 5th generation systems - in fact, it was quickly abandoned due to being a commercial failure, at which point Panasonic bought the license to manufacture 3DO hardware and jumped ship to the Panasonic 3DO, which is their entry in the 5th generation. Performance gaps are completely irrelevant when it comes to console generations - the TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine is 8-bit and can't hold a candle to the processing power of the SNES or the Mega Drive, but it's a 4th generation system because it was released with the explicit intention of being competitive in that particular time frame. Similarly the N64 is 64-bit and greatly overpowers the PlayStation and the Sega Saturn in terms of raw processing power, however it's a fifth generation system just like the other two. The Wii U is a whole generation behind the XBox One and the PS4 in terms of processing power and at least two generations behind in terms of hardware, but it's a current generation system nonetheless. So yes, if there was a company that would release an 8-bit, retro-style system this generation that would be unique and not a clone of previous hardware, it would be considered a current generation system. An oddball, sure, but a current generation system nonetheless. Processing power is not a measurement of whether or not a system belongs to a given generation - they never were and they never will be considered the make or break argument.


TemplarGR said:


> Well, it is simple, really. The CD-i marked the beginning of the 5th generation... Who made 1993 the beginning? On what basis? No 16 bit system (except the Jaguar) was released after 1991. So all you need to do is say that the CD-i with an almost 1992 release was the first 5th gen console. Problem solved...


The year 1993 was picked on the basis of the release date of the 3DO, the first 5th generation system. This was the point in history when previous generation systems have reached their limits and works on new systems were either complete or in the final stages. The CD-i didn't mark the beginning of anything other than Panasonic's short-lived career in making video game systems. In addition, the Atari Jaguar is _not_ a 16-bit system - it can execute 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit code and although arguably, it's considered a 64-bit system. The contemporary trend of creating consoles and computers alike was to spread given types of operations to separate chips or ALU's and you can see that in the Jaguar - it's powered by three major chips, two of them divided into several ALU's. The first chip named Tom is separated into a 32-bit graphics processing unit, a 64-bit Object Processor, a 64-bit Blitter for high-precision logic and a DRAM controller which can work in 8, 16, 32 and 64-bit modes. The second chip, Jerry, houses a 32-bit DSP and some additional hardware for joystick control and sound-related functionality. The last processor, the well-known and loved Motorolla 68000 chip is a 16/32-bit general purpose processor which acts as a manager between the former two, but could be used for game logic _(and in fact effectively was used to drive logic in most of games, which is why they're so terrible - developers were not familiar enough with the Jaguar architecture to effectively utilize its 32-bit and 64-bit functionality, so they did what they did best - programmed for the 68000 because they knew it well)_. In any case, no matter how you look at it and whether you believe that the Jaguar is a 32-bit console or a 64-bit one, it's certainly not a 16-bit system by any stretch of the imagination. I personally hold the view that if a system can perform a 64-bit operation, it's a 64-bit system, point. I've had this conversation a hundred of times by now, I think.

In any case, we can have this conversation for the next few decades and we'll still stand by our opinion, so we'll have to agree to disagree. Being late to a given generation doesn't meant that you're starting a new one - it just means that you're late for the party.


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## Mythrix (Mar 19, 2014)

Why use randomly found photos of consoles, when you can find super-high res photos of them here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Evan-Amos/VideoGames

*The NEC PC Engine/TurboGrafX-16/TurboGrafX*




*The Sega Genesis/Mega Drive*
*

*

*The Super FAMICOM/Super Nintendo Entertainment System*
*

**

*

*The SNK Neo Geo*
*

*

*The Phillips CDi*
*

*


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## mkdms14 (Mar 19, 2014)

ok clearly someone was high when they voted for the snes that or there trolling.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 19, 2014)

mkdms14 said:


> ok clearly someone was high when they voted for the snes that or there trolling.


The 16-bit console war never really ended, fanboys on both sides of the conflict are still at eachother's throats.


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## cracker (Mar 19, 2014)

Maybe trolling or maybe their parents only got them the core system and crap titles like Shaq Fu, Boogerman, Barbie, Ballz 3D, etc.


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