# Minneapolis School District Will Lay Off White Teachers Before Other Races



## City (Aug 18, 2022)

> White teachers in the Minneapolis Public School District will be fired before minority teachers, according to the stipulations of a recently negotiated union agreement. Alpha News reported that a deal between the Minneapolis Federation of Teachers and Minneapolis Public Schools on March 25 includes a provision allowing minority teachers to be “exempted from district-wide layoff outside seniority order.”
> 
> Conversely, the agreement dictates that if a minority teacher would otherwise be subject to layoffs, “the District shall excess the next least senior teacher, who is not a member of an underrepresented population.” Previously, the seniority of teachers in the district was the only factor that determined whether or not they would be laid off. The reinstatement of minority teachers will also be given a greater priority than the reinstatement of white teachers.



https://spectator.org/minneapolis-school-district-will-lay-off-white-teachers-first/

Solving racism with more racism, nice.

Do the water fountains next!


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## SG854 (Aug 18, 2022)

The bloodlust is imesurable


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## Creamu (Aug 18, 2022)

'“It is the public policy of this state to secure for persons in this state, freedom from discrimination,” including on the basis of race and color. According to James Dickey, the senior trial counsel of the Upper Midwest Law Center, the agreement also violates the United States Constitution since it “openly discriminates against white teachers based only on the color of their skin, and not their seniority or merit.”'

Not enough people will care if white people bitch and cry about things like this. If they want to improve their situation they will have to have their own civil rights movement.


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## Maximumbeans (Aug 18, 2022)

This is such a backwards way to try and counter racist bias. I know they think this is progress, but it's absolutely not, and I don't say that as a white person outraged on behalf of white rights or any shit like that.

It's objectively stupid. I get why they've done it; they think it's egalitarianism as opposed to equality, but what they've ended up with now is neither. Making decisions concerning layoffs with zero regard for ethnicity is equality. Factoring in ethnicity and race so as to ensure you don't happen to lay off, say, five Black teachers because none of them were senior enough, that would be egalitarian.

This is just 'bias but for "good"'. I highly doubt it's what the people who fought and bled for civil rights had in mind.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

I checked the document and that isn't what it says. There's a racial component, but its aim is to rebalance prior discriminations. It'll be a white teacher because they're overrepresented and non-white candidates weren't hired on the basis of colour. But it doesn't target people for being white...







P.S.: this also comes in an agreement between the schools and the teachers, who were striking for better working conditions. It's not something imposed on teachers, it's something they requested.


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> I checked the document and that isn't what it says. There's a racial component, but its aim is to rebalance prior discriminations. It'll be a white teacher because they're overrepresented and non-white candidates weren't hired on the basis of colour. But it doesn't target people for being white...
> 
> View attachment 323095
> 
> ...


"Prior discrimination"? What are you talking about? Can you prove that those teachers were originally hired because white?

The page you show literally says that "if excessing a teacher who is a member of POPULATION UNDERREPRESENTED among licensed teachers in the site, the Discrict shall excess the next least senior teacher, who is not a member of an UNDERREPRESENTED POPULATION". It literally discriminates people based on race.

And this agreement comes between the school and the union. BIG difference.

I wondered how long it'd take until someone would try to justify this monstrosity.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> It's not something imposed on teachers, it's something they requested.


So discrimination is fine as long as people* vote for it?

*presumably a majority, two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch and all that.


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## Creamu (Aug 18, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> So discrimination is fine as long as people* vote for it?
> 
> *presumably a majority, two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch and all that.


Hey, they've won the election fair and square!


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> So discrimination is fine as long as people* vote for it?
> 
> *presumably a majority, two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch and all that.



You're probably being biased on purpose, but let me explain in other terms. The system is: if there's an excess of teachers, those with fewer years of service are taken off. But what at least some schools were doing was, instead of doing that, they were taking off teachers of colour. This is a correction.


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## Valwinz (Aug 18, 2022)

Bidens Racist America


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## FAST6191 (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> You're probably being biased on purpose, but let me explain in other terms. The system is: if there's an excess of teachers, those with fewer years of service are taken off. But what at least some schools were doing was, instead of doing that, they were taking off teachers of colour. This is a correction.


So two wrongs (assuming the earlier firing policies even were racially motivated) made a right?

I also find seniority as a method for running things a dubious one, though I suppose thrusting lifetime teachers out into the real world as might be the case with a meritocratic approach will see them starving where someone else could reskill.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

@FAST6191 the world isn't made on rights, there's a balance to manage. Or else you'd be out of the staff at this point.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> @FAST6191 the world isn't made on rights, there's a balance to manage. Or else you'd be out of the staff at this point.


I am still not sure of your particular objection to me but I think I like it and is probably one of those examples of the if everybody likes you then something is wrong thing (*hopes to get a flame thread one day*).

As far as balance if said balance is some perverse every conceivable strata, subdivision and the like in society must reflect the baseline makeup or irrelevant traits (save for the mathematically impossible bonus for "historically/previously disadvantaged" groups in desirable roles) rather than everybody gets the same shot to make something of themselves then you can keep it.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

I see no problem with a mostly-black community wanting to have mostly-black teachers in their schools.  Firing people probably isn't the best way to go about it, though, they should at least be giving them the opportunity to transfer to another school district or state.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I see no problem with a mostly-black community wanting to have mostly-black teachers in their schools.  Firing people probably isn't the best way to go about it, though, they should at least be giving them the opportunity to transfer to another school district or state.



I wager that letting go of teachers who are in excess, because there aren't enough students for everyone, is a regular process. I doubt the teachers would be receptive to an agreement that fired them based on race.


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I see no problem with a mostly-white community wanting to have mostly-white teachers in their schools.  Firing people probably isn't the best way to go about it, though, they should at least be giving them the opportunity to transfer to another school district or state.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> I wager that letting go of teachers who are in excess, because there aren't enough students for everyone, is a regular process. I doubt the teachers would be receptive to an agreement that fired them based on race.


It's generally the other way around in the US, the student-to-teacher ratio is ridiculous.  Like 30+ to 1 per classroom.  And of course we pay teachers almost as badly as our fast food workers.


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> You're probably being biased on purpose, but let me explain in other terms. The system is: if there's an excess of teachers, those with fewer years of service are taken off. But what at least some schools were doing was, instead of doing that, they were taking off teachers of colour. This is a correction.


You're being in bad faith on purpose, but let me explain in other terms: IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT, IF THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GTFOING A WHITE AND A BLACK TEACHER, THEY WILL LAY OFF THE WHITE ONE.

Again, this was decided between the school and THE UNION. An union that I'm sure will stop existing after this.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> You're being in bad faith on purpose, but let me explain in other terms: IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT, IF THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GTFOING A WHITE AND A BLACK TEACHER, THEY WILL LAY OFF THE WHITE ONE.
> 
> Again, this was decided between the school and THE UNION. An union that I'm sure will stop existing after this.



It clearly says? Then quote me where it says.


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> It clearly says? Then quote me where it says.


It's in my previous post you conveniently ignored. It's even in the document you posted.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> You're being in bad faith on purpose, but let me explain in other terms: IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT, IF THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GTFOING A WHITE AND A BLACK TEACHER, THEY WILL LAY OFF THE WHITE ONE.
> 
> Again, this was decided between the school and THE UNION. An union that I'm sure will stop existing after this.


Oh man, if only one questionable decision was enough to dissolve police unions, specifically the Minneapolis police union.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> It's in my previous post you conveniently ignored. It's even in the document you posted.



Right, it doesn't say what you mean. I ignored you because I ignore trolls. Your post that I quoted only appeared because it was the most recent in the thread - I wasn't even notified.


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## mrgone (Aug 18, 2022)

hmm

i would say those white teachers would get a new job more easily that others


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

mrgone said:


> hmm
> 
> i would say those white teachers would get a new job more easily that others


Facts.  Though teachers in general are underappreciated and underpaid in this county.  Hopefully that changes a bit after DeSantis' experiment with allowing enlisted vets with zero teaching experience into classrooms with teenage girls inevitably blows up in his face.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

They should probably focus more on their students than on racial quotas of their teachers. Maybe fire teachers based on merit instead of race.

https://www.fox9.com/news/testing-show-achievement-gaps-in-minneapolis-public-schools

Our public education system is a failure, especially for minorities, but at least parents are noticing and taking appropriate action.

https://www.americanexperiment.org/...re-students-leave-minneapolis-public-schools/


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Facts.  Though teachers in general are underappreciated and underpaid in this county.  Hopefully that changes a bit after DeSantis' experiment with allowing enlisted vets with zero teaching experience into classrooms with teenage girls inevitably blows up in his face.


I spent the bulk of my time as an NCO teaching. That's what we do. Who do you think teaches basic training, Advanced Individual Training and leadership courses?

But imagine rooting for failure for vets and kids so you can "own the cons".


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> Right, it doesn't say what you mean. I ignored you because I ignore trolls. Your post that I quoted only appeared because it was the most recent in the thread - I wasn't even notified.


You're mentally unhinged. I don't mind that, but please stop spreading misinformation just for the sake of it. Thank you.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I spent the bulk of my time as an NCO teaching. That's what we do. Who do you think teaches basic training, Advanced Individual Training and leadership courses?
> 
> But imagine rooting for failure for vets and kids so you can "own the cons".


Officers are one thing, especially officers whose job classifications include teaching as a primary duty.  Any enlisted schmuck who did nothing but pump gas in Iraq for four years will tell you they would not trust their buddies unsupervised around teenagers, let alone teenage girls.  The rate of sexual assault is already bad enough on military bases with a lot of younger personnel.

Even taking that out of the equation, these guys do not have the patience or education necessary to excel at teaching most subjects.  DeSantis wants to make kids both dumber and more blindly nationalist, that much is obvious.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

>arguing race relations with ancaps
lol, lmao even
You'd have a more fruitful conversation with someone literate.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> >arguing race relations with ancaps
> lol, lmao even
> You'd have a more fruitful conversation with someone literate.


"But muh reverse racism."


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> You're mentally unhinged. I don't mind that, but please stop spreading misinformation just for the sake of it. Thank you.



I disproved your point, with information missing from your clearly biased source and from your post, and now you're just pursuing ad hominem. Maybe the sort of reasoning you're using now has worked to radicalize you in the past, or it's something you grew up with.


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> I disproved your point, with information missing from your clearly biased source and from your post, and now you're just pursuing ad hominem. Maybe the sort of reasoning you're using now has worked to radicalize you in the past, or it's something you grew up with.


You didn't disprove anything. You're spreading misinformation and hoping to get away with it. Too bad, you aren't.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> "But muh reverse racism."


Lmao, white people wanna be oppressed so fucking badly I guess.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> You didn't disprove anything. You're spreading misinformation and hoping to get away with it. Too bad, you aren't.



What misinformation am I spreading? If it were whites who were underrepresented, they'd be favored in the aforementioned process. It's not targeting one specific race.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Lmao, white people wanna be oppressed so fucking badly I guess.


Not all of us, but the ones who like to oppress others gotta try to justify it somehow.  Like wife beaters telling women "you made me do this."


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## Creamu (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Not all of us, but the ones who like to oppress others gotta try to justify it somehow.  Like wife beaters telling women "you made me do this."


It's a weird corner to be in. Haha


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> What misinformation am I spreading? If it were whites who were underrepresented, they'd be favored in the aforementioned process. It's not targeting one specific race.


You must be trolling. Off to the troll list you go.


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## Dark_Phoras (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> You must be trolling. Off to the troll list you go.



You're not used to opposite points of view, are you? You live in a little bubble that says you're the persecuted victim.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

idk who this City guy is but man he is mad LMAO


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Officers are one thing, especially officers whose job classifications include teaching as a primary duty.  Any enlisted schmuck who did nothing but pump gas in Iraq for four years will tell you they would not trust their buddies unsupervised around teenagers, let alone teenage girls.  The rate of sexual assault is already bad enough on military bases with a lot of younger personnel.
> 
> Even taking that out of the equation, these guys do not have the patience or education necessary to excel at teaching most subjects.  DeSantis wants to make kids both dumber and more blindly nationalist, that much is obvious.


Way to paint entire groups with a broad brush. The left assumes others are all the same because they themselves are all the same. That's not how individuality works.

Do you think there's not going to be an interview or vetting process? Nowhere in that announcement does it say that simply having a DD-214 is the only prerequisite for employment.

Judging by the reading, writing, and math scores across the country, the teachers who do have the necessary patience or education necessary are failing epically. And there's also the 160 teachers who have been charge with child sex crimes this year alone.

In other words, your argument does not hold water, as it often doesn't on any thread you comment on.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Way to paint entire groups with a broad brush.


Just arguing the other side of "all enlisted are perfectly equipped and prepared to become teachers without any additional training," which is obviously ridiculous.  _Most_ are not, but there are some exceptions.  Setting up a program which is designed to find a needle in a haystack is a good way of ensuring that program fails.



TraderPatTX said:


> Do you think there's not going to be an interview or vetting process?


Being that it's Florida and they're paying just above minimum wage for these positions, my expectations for that are not particularly high.



TraderPatTX said:


> Judging by the reading, writing, and math scores across the country, the teachers who do have the necessary patience or education necessary are failing epically.


No, the system of standardized testing and paying teachers peanuts without providing them any additional resources is a failure.  We've had Republicans sabotaging the public education system for decades so they can profit more from private schools.  Betsy DeVos has to be just about the dumbest motherfucker I've ever heard speak publicly, aside from Trump and Palin anyway.  That's about the only facet of government that really does "trickle down."



TraderPatTX said:


> And there's also the 160 teachers who have been charge with child sex crimes this year alone.


Guess you're wanting to pump those numbers up, eh?  I'm sure Florida can manage 160 charges of that type annually on its own.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I see no problem with a mostly-black community wanting to have mostly-black teachers in their schools.



Now do white.

Anyway, whole thread is pointless. This is Minnesota we're talking about. They're never gonna lay off any public school teachers.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Just arguing the other side of "all enlisted are perfectly equipped and prepared to become teachers without any additional training," which is obviously ridiculous.  _Most_ are not, but there are some exceptions.  Setting up a program which is designed to find a needle in a haystack is a good way of ensuring that program fails.
> 
> 
> Being that it's Florida and they're paying just above minimum wage for these positions, my expectations for that are not particularly high.
> ...


Opinion

Opinion

Taxpayers have thrown trillions toward education for decades with diminishing returns. More money will not suddenly make teachers start caring about their students' education.

Even worse opinion than the previous three. You are on a roll today.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Now do white.
> 
> Anyway, whole thread is pointless. This is Minnesota we're talking about. They're never gonna lay off any public school teachers.


Reminds me of the infamous "rubber rooms" in NYC.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/nyc-pledged-to-ban-teacher-rubber-rooms-they-went-underground-instead/


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> Now do white.
> 
> Anyway, whole thread is pointless. This is Minnesota we're talking about. They're never gonna lay off any public school teachers.


I don't have to, because we both know the history and context surrounding that.  These neighborhoods continue to be so marginalized and segregated precisely because of rich white people making decades of decisions for them with no input from the actual residents.  Don't start acting as ignorantly racist as City on me.



TraderPatTX said:


> Opinion


Fact: reducing and/or dropping requirements for any job is going to get you less qualified candidates.  You want to live in a fantasy world where every 18 year old who enlists so they can buy a Dodge Charger suddenly becomes morally/ethically infallible and the perfect role model, that's on you.  The rest of us have to live in the real world, where Florida is a cesspool of methed-out pedos and retired grifters.  If anything, the requirements to teach should be going up, and so should the pay associated with the job.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I don't have to, because we both know the history and context surrounding that.  These neighborhoods continue to be so marginalized and segregated precisely because of rich white people making decades of decisions for them with no input from the actual residents.  Don't start acting as ignorantly racist as City on me.
> 
> 
> Fact: reducing and/or dropping requirements for any job is going to get you less qualified candidates.  You want to live in a fantasy world where every 18 year old who enlists so they can buy a Dodge Charger suddenly becomes morally/ethically infallible and the perfect role model, that's on you.  The rest of us have to live in the real world, where Florida is a cesspool of methed-out pedos and retired grifters.  If anything, the requirements to teach should be going up, and so should the pay associated with the job.


I don't see you offering any solutions besides throwing more money at failing teachers and keeping the status quo.

If you raised the requirements to teach, most teachers would have to be fired because they have been failing for so long. Wait, maybe you're on to something there...


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I don't see you offering any solutions besides throwing more money at failing teachers and keeping the status quo.


Your reading comprehension is at a kindergarten level if you think I've been arguing in favor of keeping the status quo.  Standardized testing doesn't work, nor does cutting funding that supports the arts and sciences.  We need a reform of the public education system, but the answer is not giving up on it just so the billionaires you worship can make a few extra bucks while kids get taught more selectively about historical events and America's "exceptionalism."  There's not many clearer signs of a failing empire than that.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

Here's a question: Should someone dislike the United States after reading its history?


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## Dark_Ansem (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Here's a question: Should someone dislike the United States after reading its history?


The only good thing the US ever did was kick Britain's sorry backside. So if someone stopped at that, the answer is no. If you read pretty much the past 30 years, then I suppose anyone is entitled to their own decisions.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Here's a question: Should someone dislike the United States after reading its history?


Assuming a full, uncensored education on the country's history, absolutely.  Most people still remain ignorant to the fact that the US government bombed its own citizens multiple times in the past.  I think we should also teach kids that progress and change is possible, but a continuing struggle, and without committing to that struggle, regress is instead inevitable.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Your reading comprehension is at a kindergarten level if you think I've been arguing in favor of keeping the status quo.  Standardized testing doesn't work, nor does cutting funding that supports the arts and sciences.  We need a reform of the public education system, but the answer is not giving up on it just so the billionaires you worship can make a few extra bucks while kids get taught more selectively about historical events and America's "exceptionalism."  There's not many clearer signs of a failing empire than that.


Education spending has increased year over year for decades and the results are getting worse.

Standardized testing doesn't work for teachers who are failing at their jobs, but still can't get fired.

Calling for reform is not offering up solutions. That's a tagline with no meaning. Maybe Congress can pass an education bill to see how it will work like they did with the Inflation Reduction Act that the CBO says will not reduce inflation.

You have no details because you lack any original thought.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Education spending has increased year over year for decades and the results are getting worse.
> 
> Standardized testing doesn't work









Almost like these two things are connected or something.


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## Marc_LFD (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Phoras said:


> It's not something imposed on teachers, it's something they requested.


Oh, ok. They just requested... Wtf.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Almost like these two things are connected or something.


If you have to alter my words to prove a point, you didn't really prove a point. All you did was pull a Kevin Clinesmith or a @LainaGabranth. I'm not sure why you people keep insisting on changing and removing words that I typed when people can just scroll up and see what I initially said. It makes you look childish and foolish.

Here's an idea. Try devising a solution on your own instead of the generic "We need reforms now", because guess what, we did reforms in the 1970's by creating the Department of Education and it's only made things worse.


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## Kraken_X (Aug 18, 2022)

This "controversy" is yet another irrelevant distraction.  There is a teacher shortage.  Teachers should not be getting laid off at all right now unless they are doing a bad job, regardless of race.  Teachers are underpaid, unsupported, and they are leaving in droves.  You can make more at McDonalds than teaching in my town, and with far less hassle.  Teachers are expected to handle discipline problems, buy supplies for poor students out of their already meager paychecks, deal with irate idiot parents, deal with COVID, and somehow teach real information in addition to spoon feeding the answers to standardized tests so that their paychecks that are tied to said tests don't get any lower.  With class sizes approaching 40 kids, teachers are basically becoming babysitters, and their role as that because very apparent during the pandemic. 

In a modern specialized world, education is THE most important thing.  The USA has been so successful because inventions and innovations happened here.  What things will a population that can barely read, has no critical thinking skills, and can't tell fact from lies, invent to compete with countries that do fund education?


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## Dark_Ansem (Aug 18, 2022)

Kraken_X said:


> This "controversy" is yet another irrelevant distraction.  There is a teacher shortage.  Teachers should not be getting laid off at all right now unless they are doing a bad job, regardless of race.  Teachers are underpaid, unsupported, and they are leaving in droves.  You can make more at McDonalds than teaching in my town, and with far less hassle.  Teachers are expected to handle discipline problems, buy supplies for poor students out of their already meager paychecks, deal with irate idiot parents, deal with COVID, and somehow teach real information in addition to spoon feeding the answers to standardized tests so that their paychecks that are tied to said tests don't get any lower.  With class sizes approaching 40 kids, teachers are basically becoming babysitters, and their role as that because very apparent during the pandemic.
> 
> In a modern specialized world, education is THE most important thing.  The USA has been so successful because inventions and innovations happened here.  What things will a population that can barely read, has no critical thinking skills, and can't tell fact from lies, invent to compete with countries that do fund education?


Babysitters who are somehow supposed to be completely neutral while tolerating partisan shit from students and parents.


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I see no problem with a mostly-black community wanting to have mostly-black teachers in their schools.  Firing people probably isn't the best way to go about it, though, they should at least be giving them the opportunity to transfer to another school district or state.



How do you not see this as being racially biased, prejudiced or straight up racist?


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Try devising a solution on your own


Just for a start: more guidance counselors, career counselors, and therapists in schools.  More individual attention for students, smaller class sizes.  Stricter requirements for teachers, much higher pay, and school-funded resources for obtaining supplies, textbooks, etc.  More funding for the arts and sciences.  Expanded extracurricular programs.  Fewer classes per day to allow for a wider scope in lessons and more cool-down time in-between.  Individualized testing to highlight students' strengths and help them work on their weaknesses.

Take 5% out of the military budget or corporate welfare to pay for my proposals, done.  I can keep going, but let's be honest: I've already put far more thought into this than what was attached to DeSantis' "plan."


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> cope


You probably don't even remember changing my words. Maybe I should go and screenshot it for you since it happened more than a few hours ago.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You probably don't even remember changing my words. Maybe I should go and screenshot it for you since it happened more than a few hours ago.


I didn't change your words, I simply stated them as intended :^)


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Just for a start: more guidance counselors, career counselors, and therapists in schools.  More individual attention for students, smaller class sizes.  Stricter requirements for teachers, much higher pay, and school-funded resources for obtaining supplies, textbooks, etc.  More funding for the arts and sciences.  Expanded extracurricular programs.  Fewer classes per day to allow for a wider scope in lessons and more cool-down time in-between.  Individualized testing to highlight students' strengths and help them work on their weaknesses.
> 
> Take 5% out of the military budget or corporate welfare to pay for my proposals, done.  I can keep going, but let's be honest: I've already put far more thought into this than what was attached to DeSantis' "plan."


Except guidance counselors, career counselors and therapists do not solve the teacher shortage. I do think teachers need access to therapists thought. Their TikTok videos are absolutely insane.

I can agree with you about the schools paying for teacher supplies.

What good are arts and sciences if students can't read, write or do math.

We could have spent $60 billion on education this year alone. Instead it went to Ukraine where it "disappeared".

We managed to find a little bit of common ground. Not bad. And without insults and name calling. I call that progress.


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## smf (Aug 18, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> So two wrongs (assuming the earlier firing policies even were racially motivated) made a right?.


You're assuming there is a way to be right. But sure, if there was a racially motivated hiring strategy then saying "well we're going to be good from now on and be fair, so goodbye all black teachers who only just managed to get hired" is a bit disingenuous.


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> I see no problem with a mostly-black community wanting to have mostly-black teachers in their schools.  Firing people probably isn't the best way to go about it, though, they should at least be giving them the opportunity to transfer to another school district or state.


That kinda gose against equality.........

Just to let you know, cause if you mixed them up you let them experience more races.


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## TraderPatTX (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I didn't change your words, I simply stated them as intended :^)


You stated my thoughts as you intended.

If you don't know why that is wrong, you are mentally deranged.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> How do you not see this as being racially biased, prejudiced or straight up racist?


How do you have an issue with wanting to install more teachers who have similar life experiences to those of their students?  The easier it is for them to relate, the easier it is for them to create lesson plans that keep students' attention and focus.  Like I said, I'm not in favor of firing the existing teachers, or removing _all_ diversity, but what works for one school district isn't going to necessarily work for another.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You stated my thoughts as you intended.
> 
> If you don't know why that is wrong, you are mentally deranged.


idk why you're getting so pressed about me stating what you said :^)


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## SScorpio (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> idk why you're getting so pressed about me lying about what you said :^)


We'll also see more of what this article is about. It looks like Affirmative Action is next on the Supreme Court chopping block.


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> How do you have an issue with wanting to install more teachers who have similar life experiences to those of their students?  The easier it is for them to relate, the easier it is for them to create lesson plans that keep students' attention and focus.  Like I said, I'm not in favor of firing the existing teachers, or removing _all_ diversity, but what works for one school district isn't going to necessarily work for another.


How do you believe that skin color is the deciding factor in "similar life experiences"? Why does race matter that much TO YOU? 

Did you ever care what color your teacher's skin was in school? Did it have any impact on their ability to teach? 

If your argument is that people relate better to people of the same skin color, I offer the idea that that concept, itself, is prejudiced, biased and borderline racist. 

Skin color has never meant anything to anyone EXCEPT for racists.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> How do you believe that skin color is the deciding factor in "similar life experiences"? Why does race matter that much TO YOU?
> 
> Did you ever care what color your teacher's skin was in school? Did it have any impact on their ability to teach?
> 
> ...


Hey just a quick question, do you think that black people might have some different experiences to white people after being denied equal rights not even 100 years ago? Or do you think all racism historically was erased along with its generational impacts with the signing of the civil rights act?


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Except guidance counselors, career counselors and therapists do not solve the teacher shortage.


Better pay solves the teacher shortage.  Even fast food workers do not have to put in all the unpaid hours that teachers do, which makes the former a more appealing job than the latter right now.  That should never be the case.  Some people genuinely love teaching, but they can only live below the poverty line for so long.



TraderPatTX said:


> We could have spent $60 billion on education this year alone. Instead it went to Ukraine where it "disappeared".


A drop in the bucket.  We have the money to both resist imperialist dictators and also improve our quality of education, we're one of the richest nations on Earth.  Corporations do not need welfare, and the military budget does not need to be so bloated that millions disappear into thin air annually.


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## Dark_Ansem (Aug 18, 2022)

LOL at the rightwingers coping with Ukraine resisting their favourite dictator's unwanted advances, claiming that somehow money given to Ukraine "disappears"


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## FAST6191 (Aug 18, 2022)

smf said:


> You're assuming there is a way to be right. But sure, if there was a racially motivated hiring strategy then saying "well we're going to be good from now on and be fair, so goodbye all black teachers who only just managed to get hired" is a bit disingenuous.


Which is one of many reasons why seniority is not a favoured method of mine for governing a workforce, though would be a case of sucks to be you I guess and probably get people to cry racism when none was involved (granted that seems to be inevitable regardless of action in a heads I win tails you lose fashion so best ignored pending actual evidence).

As far as way to be right then there is; don't factor in race (plus all the other list of relevant isms) to your hiring/firing policies. Depending upon your setup then can be harder (might have to auto remove names and photos from any CVs you get if you want to be extra sure*, and probably disregard anybody that mentions their race in their CV as anything other than a subject they studied somewhere) but far from an insurmountable problem/pretty much already a solved problem.

*the wastes of oxygen that form most HR departments having been shown to be all flavours of biased when doing the identical CV with different name/photo in the past. Think my favourite was the fat woman, skinny woman, fat man, skinny man in Mexico one.


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 18, 2022)

Dark_Ansem said:


> LOL at the rightwingers coping with Ukraine resisting their favourite dictator's unwanted advances, claiming that somehow money given to Ukraine "disappears"


How dose this have to do with thread?


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Which is one of many reasons why seniority is not a favoured method of mine for governing a workforce, though would be a case of sucks to be you I guess and probably get people to cry racism when none was involved (granted that seems to be inevitable regardless of action in a heads I win tails you lose fashion so best ignored pending actual evidence).
> 
> As far as way to be right then there is; don't factor in race (plus all the other list of relevant isms) to your hiring/firing policies. Depending upon your setup then can be harder (might have to auto remove names and photos from any CVs you get if you want to be extra sure*, and probably disregard anybody that mentions their race in their CV as anything other than a subject they studied somewhere) but far from an insurmountable problem/pretty much already a solved problem.
> 
> *the wastes of oxygen that form most HR departments having been shown to be all flavours of biased when doing the identical CV with different name/photo in the past. Think my favourite was the fat woman, skinny woman, fat man, skinny man in Mexico one.


I can't help but think about how much I hate Toby every time I see "HR". 

Combo breaker.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> How do you believe that skin color is the deciding factor in "similar life experiences"?


That can't be a serious question.  The Minneapolis Police Department is one of the worst offenders in the nation when it comes to racially-motivated attacks and murders.  The poor neighborhoods are mostly black because of redlining and past segregation (which continues to inform current policy).  Of course you're going to have a different experience living there as a white person.



Neo Draven said:


> Did you ever care what color your teacher's skin was in school? Did it have any impact on their ability to teach?


I went to a high school with about 2100 students, and precisely 2 of them were black.  Every teacher was white.  So how am I to know whether including a couple black teachers would've improved my education or not?  The teachers I did have told a lot of lies of omission, certainly.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That can't be a serious question.  The Minneapolis Police Department is one of the worst offenders in the nation when it comes to racially-motivated attacks and murders.  The poor neighborhoods are mostly black because of redlining and past segregation (which continues to inform current policy).  Of course you're going to have a different experience living there as a white person.


Don't you know? Racism stopped! That means no one was ever hurt by anything ever once segregation ended!


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> That can't be a serious question.  The Minneapolis Police Department is one of the worst offenders in the nation when it comes to racially-motivated attacks and murders.  The poor neighborhoods are mostly black because of redlining and past segregation (which continues to inform current policy).  Of course you're going to have a different experience living there as a white person.
> 
> 
> I went to a high school with about 2100 students, and precisely 2 of them were black.  Every teacher was white.  So how am I to know whether including a couple black teachers would've improved my education or not?  The teachers I did have told a lot of lies of omission, certainly.


Completely serious. 

Please tell me how skin color contributes to your personality. How does being born with a specific level of melanin in your skin and hair AUTOMATICALLY dictate and guarantee specific character or personality traits? 

Culture has nothing to do with skin color, and everything to do with character. 

Keep in mind that the Minneapolis Police Department had a black police chief a black attorney general and most of its leadership were black, all throughout the 2020 riots. So... it was the black leaders responsible for racially-motivated attacks and murders? How does THAT compute? 

I went to a high school with 1,300 students. Precisely 200 of them were white. 90% of the teachers were black. So, I CAN tell you that race has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of a good teacher to relate to their students. Not that anecdotal evidence amounts to anything. Since YOU brought it up, though, we can play tit-for-tat. 

You are supporting the idea that it's okay for people to factor in race when it comes to the human species' natural ability to relate to their fellow humans. I firmly disagree with you. 

Race has only ever mattered to racists. And sufferers of White Guilt, desperate for an invite to the cookout.


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> ^^^ least racist republican post


Your not wrong


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

Starting to think that LainaGabranth is a russian bot trying to make the american left worse than it already is. It would make sense because the only people IRL I've seen being serious about ACAB/other retarded takes are furries and they aren't really people to begin with.


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> Starting to think that LainaGabranth is a russian bot trying to make the american left worse than it already is. It would make sense because the only people IRL I've seen being serious about ACAB/other retarded takes are furries and they aren't really people to begin with.


He is a rare and special unicorn, that one.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

City said:


> Starting to think that LainaGabranth is a russian bot trying to make the american left worse than it already is. It would make sense because the only people IRL I've seen being serious about ACAB/other retarded takes are furries and they aren't really people to begin with.


supporting police reform = furry, I guess??


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Completely serious.


Then you're completely tone deaf both to historical and modern context, which means there's no reasoning with you.  You're just another fragile white guy looking to play the victim over something that doesn't affect you in the slightest.


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Then you're completely tone deaf both to historical and modern context, which means there's no reasoning with you.  You're just another fragile white guy looking to play the victim over something that doesn't affect you in the slightest.


Dude for real, the white fragility from the far right posters on this forum is unbelievable.

Legit all you have to say is something innocuous like "segregation and redlining negatively affected an entire population of people" and you get flooded with replies from coping whitoids.


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> supporting police reform = furry, I guess??


I thought you were a 5th gen Anti-Shadow weapon powered by fusion cores..... man was i wrong....


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## tabzer (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Then you're completely tone deaf both to historical and modern context, which means there's no reasoning with you.  You're just another fragile white guy looking to play the victim over something that doesn't affect you in the slightest.



Says the privileged white guy from an insulated white neighborhood.  Let him tell you.


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Then you're completely tone deaf both to historical and modern context, which means there's no reasoning with you.  You're just another fragile white guy looking to play the victim over something that doesn't affect you in the slightest.


Well, you would first need to start using reason and not ignorance, buzzwords, trigger phrases, regurgitated arguments and logic.

I presented facts. The Chief of Police in Minneapolis during the 2020 riots? Black. The Attorney General? Black. Most of the police force? Black. All of this is easily verifiable. I provided evidence, logic and reason. 

Your response is, "You're a tone deaf white guy and you're fragile."

No one acted like a victim. You are speaking from your own imaginary platform of privilege, WHITE BOY who went to an all-white school and has never once understood what it's like to live on the streets. 

You have no clue who you are talking to. Stick to the actual topic and the facts presented, rather than trying to attack me personally. Ad hominem is a terrible fallacy.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Says the privileged white guy from an insulated white neighborhood. Let him tell you.


The high school I went to was preppy as hell, that doesn't mean I grew up in the same area or even fit in there.  Are you good for anything other than trying to get a rise out of people?


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> Well, you would first need to start using reason and not ignorance, buzzwords, trigger phrases, regurgitated arguments and logic.
> 
> I presented facts. The Chief of Police in Minneapolis during the 2020 riots? Black. The Attorney General? Black. Most of the police force? Black. All of this is easily verifiable. I provided evidence, logic and reason.
> 
> Your response is, "You're a tone deaf white guy and you're fragile."





Xzi said:


> That can't be a serious question.  The Minneapolis Police Department is one of the worst offenders in the nation when it comes to racially-motivated attacks and murders.  The poor neighborhoods are mostly black because of redlining and past segregation (which continues to inform current policy).  Of course you're going to have a different experience living there as a white person.
> 
> 
> I went to a high school with about 2100 students, and precisely 2 of them were black.  Every teacher was white.  So how am I to know whether including a couple black teachers would've improved my education or not?  The teachers I did have told a lot of lies of omission, certainly.


Hmmmmmmmmmm. Definitely seems like all Xzi said was "tone deaf white guy."


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> The Chief of Police in Minneapolis during the 2020 riots? Black. The Attorney General? Black. Most of the police force? Black. All of this is easily verifiable. I provided evidence, logic and reason.


You provided evidence of nothing, this still doesn't change the fact that they can't control their officers.  Nor does it change the fact that a mostly-black school wanting to have mostly-black teachers has no affect on you whatsoever.



Neo Draven said:


> No one acted like a victim.


You're crying "racism" when there's none to be found.  That's playing the victim card.


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## tabzer (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The high school I went to was preppy as hell, that doesn't mean I grew up in the same area or even fit in there.  Are you good for anything other than trying to get a rise out of people?



Oh.  So you were a minority and can empathize with people facing racial injustice.  That's cool.


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The high school I went to was preppy as hell, that doesn't mean I grew up in the same area or even fit in there.  Are you good for anything other than trying to get a rise out of people?


And I was homeless from age 15 to 17 because my alcoholic mother was whoring around on the streets and getting beaten, so I had to go to school just to be able to EAT at least once per day. As one of the only white kids in an all-black school, how do you think that went for me? Do you think I was drenched in privilege and all doors were kicked down for me? 

Hunger doesn't care about your skin color. AGAIN, not that anecdotal evidence accounts for anything, but if we had to compare which of us lived the "black experience", as you imagine it, more closely, which of us do you think it would be? 

You're Zack Morris. I was a street rat begging in front of a Food Lion so I could get something to eat at night, breaking into people's garages that I knew had heat so I wouldn't freeze to death. 

My race didn't shield or protect me. 

Your parents' MONEY is what shielded and protected YOU. And you have the gall and audacity to attempt to condescend to me. 

Grow up. Get over your White Guilt. Go live some ACTUAL life and see what it's like to have to steal to eat. Pick up your mother from the floor after she got her ass beaten again by her drunken boyfriend. THEN tell me all about how you know about the "black experience".


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## LainaGabranth (Aug 18, 2022)

YEP THERE IT IS LMAO

"Bad things happened to me, how can *I* be privileged!?"

I swear to god the word privilege is just totally misunderstood by these people.


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## sombrerosonic (Aug 18, 2022)

Creamu said:


> Not enough people will care if white people bitch and cry about things like this. If they want to improve their situation they will have to have their own civil rights movement.


HOLY SHIT CREAMU CURSED


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## CraddaPoosta (Aug 18, 2022)

Xzi said:


> You provided evidence of nothing, this still doesn't change the fact that they can't control their officers.  Nor does it change the fact that a mostly-black school wanting to have mostly-black teachers has no affect on you whatsoever.
> 
> 
> You're crying "racism" when there's none to be found.  That's playing the victim card.


It isn't about it having an affect on me. I already made it clear, RACE ONLY MATTERS TO RACISTS. 

You do not LIKE being called a racist, do you, son? 

That is exactly you are, when you suggest that RACE helps people to relate to others because of SHARED LIFE EXPERIENCES. 

We are the same race, kiddo. Our life experiences could not be more different. You are a privileged white boy suffering from terminal TDS and White Guilt. I am a grown man who never gave a damn about skin color. We aren't the same.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Oh.  So you were a minority and can empathize with people facing racial injustice.  That's cool.


I lived in some neighborhoods where white people were the minority, yes.  I've had mostly good experiences and a few bad ones when interacting with people of other races/ethnicities.  Unfortunately, all it took was a few bad experiences growing up to turn my brother into a fucking neo-nazi, so I'm sure you and him would get along well.


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## tabzer (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> "Bad things happened to me, how can *I* be privileged!?"



Unless you can one-up him with a sob-story of your own, you are speaking from a place of privilege, bigot.



Xzi said:


> I lived in some neighborhoods where white people were the minority, yes. I've had mostly good experiences and a few bad ones when interacting with people of other races/ethnicities. Unfortunately, all it took was a few bad experiences growing up to turn my brother into a fucking neo-nazi, so I'm sure you and him would get along well.




"My life is like american history x."  Ya ya, shut it.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2022)

Neo Draven said:


> That is exactly you are, when you suggest that RACE helps people to relate to others because of SHARED LIFE EXPERIENCES.


So you've been called the n-word a whole lot as a white guy, eh?  Been pulled over by cops for absolutely nothing?  Had your application for jobs automatically thrown out just because of your first or last name?  Didn't fucking think so.  Certain experiences are far more common to certain racial/ethnic groups than others.  It's not racist to acknowledge that, it's reality.  Deal with it.


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## City (Aug 18, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I appreciate your seething leading to more fanart of me.


"More"?

Someone did this already? Fuck I thought I was original


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## Flame (Aug 18, 2022)

another thread goes the way of the dodo. well done boys and girls.

talking is cool, personal attacks are not.


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