# Pirating vs. Purchasing



## leiger (May 25, 2009)

I posted this in another thread, then had it edited rather quickly by a moderator:


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> This post has been removed by a moderator.
> _Reason: That's not what the discussion is about, take your opinion somewhere else._



I can see where they're coming from and happen to agree with them. Perhaps simply quoting the post and replying to it wasn't the best idea.

So I'll post this here, as this seems to be the next best place to put a thread like this, even if it doesn't fit into the "emulation" category perfectly.
Thoughts, opinions, discussion wanted and encouraged. My original post is below.



			
				Rayder said:
			
		

> You can't imagine how ridiculous it sounds to complain about the price of a flashcart.  Even if the cart was $100, you put 4 or 5 games on it that you didn't buy and you just essentially made your money back.  When you consider the hundreds, neigh thousands of games now available to you for free because of the flashcart you bought, the whining about cost is even more ridiculous.



It's pirates such as yourself that drive game developers into making half-assed sequels to their games.

Actually *pay* for the game, and support those that make it.

Possible response: _But why would I bother paying such a huge amount of money for a good flash cart, if I'm still paying for my games?_

* Pay for what you enjoy playing --- Support the game developers
* Extra games and apps --- Ability to play/use homebrew
* Extra features --- Ability to use cheats, RTS, and other features that can't necessarily be done with retail carts
* Convenience --- Ability to take your whole (legal) game collection with you on a single cart, instead of carrying all of them with you

There's something else, but it slipped my mind when I was writing the other points. Will edit this if I remember.

You may be thinking that if I have the money to spend on a flash cart and a whole heap of games, that's my choice. Yet the reality is I can afford very little. A game collection totalling 6 DS games and a few GBA games is sitting on my CycloDS cart, and that's more than enough. I'd rather pay for what I can afford, and miss out on the rest. People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.


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## BlackNeedle (May 25, 2009)

Good points.
But you missed out the "I-only-try-those-games-out"-argument. For me, that always sounded like a dull excuse, because if you follow the line most of those guys would actually never have enjoyed any game, because they never bought one. I actually only know of very few people who stated "I bought that game after I realized it's enjoyable while playing it off my flashcard.". Of course no offense meant, there ARE some of those honourable men.
I completely agree to
purchase game = more money for developers = better games
But we still got one alternative left: abolish money, work out of social awareness- get friendly, people! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




[That was me joking, y'know?]
~BlackNeedle


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## Minox (May 25, 2009)

I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.

When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.


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## Heran Bago (May 25, 2009)

What if you do both? Then you're hated or "doing it wrong" by both sides.



I have discussed the legal ramifications in many threads here and it never sinks in...
Based on legal precedent _in the US_, piracy isn't theft, but it's copyright infringement which is worse. I'm yet to hear a logical argument based on law that it is not.


Honestly, are there any other law students or practitioners on this board?


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## Whizz (May 25, 2009)

Minox_IX said:
			
		

> I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.
> 
> When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.



I definitely agree with you on that, DS games should be atleast half the price they are now. And they can be, look at budget titles and promotions at retail stores (Pokemon Diamond/Pearl was only €15 in a recent store promotion). I get pretty pissed when I spend €45 on a DS game I don't like when I can get atleast 4 PC games for the same amount. Nintendo should have lowered their prices when flashcards got cheaper than newly released DS games, no wonder people pirate. Afterall, we are in an economic crisis and people can use their money on other stuff.


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## thunder7child (May 25, 2009)

I also agree that the prices on DS games (but on other games consoles as well) are way too high, especially compared to prices of pc games. Come on, DS games don't have such a high production budget to justify these prices. And i believe that that has also much to do with what companies have to pay to the consoles parent company (and i'm not only talking about nintendo) to get licences in order to release titles on these consoles. How is it possible for the same game to be 30-35$ cheaper on pc's compared to their brother console releases? And where does that money go? 
To be honest however, i think i would still be into piracy even if the prices did drop, simply because it's always going to be cheaper to do so. But i would have second thoughts if game developers gave me more incentives (collectors editions, better packagings, better online services or something else to make me buy their games instead of simply downloading them. An original is always going to be an original. And i see that now when i go every week searching for game cartridges on the original game boy just for the heck of it.


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## Maz7006 (May 25, 2009)

Minox_IX said:
			
		

> I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.
> 
> When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.



Couldn't agree any more

YES. DS games are overpriced, i'd rather spend my money on something else more worth it

and Nintendo complains about bad sales


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## jesterscourt (May 25, 2009)

Once everyone adopts a system like Steam (and no, WiiWare doesn't count) I think the piracy rate would be moot.


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## Toni Plutonij (May 25, 2009)

Yeah, come to Croatia, and spend $60 on one game.

Also:


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.
> says person with this sig:
> QUOTE1 x DSLite, 1x DSPhat, 1x CycloDS Evo, 1x Acekard 2i, 1x EZ Flash V 3-in-1 Plus



Stop being hypocrite and sharing your opinion on forum full of pirates..

This thread still has no flames, but I'm guessing it will happen, and I'll keep an eye on it..

This matter has been debated many many times, and it never ends well!

This is more of a General Offtopic thread, then NDS - Emulation..


MOVED..


EDIT:And just to point out, I agree that flashcarts should be more expensive, and not accessible to everyone!


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## Guild McCommunist (May 25, 2009)

I really fail to see the relevance of this post. A good portion of this site is dedicated to info about flashcarts, emulators, roms (not downloads, of course). So, honestly, if you're trying to go on some white knight crusade to destory evil, you're at the wrong place. And welcome to the internet. A good portion of people who have half a brain about using the internet pirate things. That's life.


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## UltraMagnus (May 25, 2009)

Honestly, how much of the money you pay for a game actually goes to the people that programmed it?  I would be very surprised if more than 1% did, with the rest going to corporate fat cats and lawyers.

not to mention, us pirates get games earlier, get games that don't come out in our region at all, and don't have to faff around with carrying dozens of easily losable little cartridges.


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## omatic (May 25, 2009)

UltraMagnus said:
			
		

> Honestly, how much of the money you pay for a game actually goes to the people that programmed it?  I would be very surprised if more than 1% did, with the rest going to corporate fat cats and lawyers.
> 
> not to mention, us pirates get games earlier, get games that don't come out in our region at all, and don't have to faff around with carrying dozens of easily losable little cartridges.



Good point. Unless the developer is self-publishing, they have to split the income with the publisher. In addition, when bought at retail, the publisher and the retailer have to split income from a game sale (assuming there wasn't a distributor in the middle).

In addition, if you buy a game used, or second-hand (such as on eBay or Amazon from user-made shops), the developer gets nothing. Re-sale of games is a much bigger detriment to game devs than piracy, as demonstrated by Gamestop recently announcing that they're making bundles of money off of used games (it was in their recent annual earnings summary).

When the "legit" hardware allows me to not have to carry around 40 carts at a time, then I'll stop using the flashcart. Until then, I'm gonna keep my games nice and clean in their boxes and use my Cyclo.


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## IchigoK2031 (May 25, 2009)

I literally have like a bajillion ds boxes in my room, I've probably spent like 3-4 hundred on ds games but only on ones that were gud, if I try them out at all I use an emulator, then if they're good, go to gamestop and buy them, then I go home and download and play, the game might not ever be opened but its gud for the developers.


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## Deleted member 110780 (May 25, 2009)

I only buy PC games lol.


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## Law (May 25, 2009)

These threads should be locked the second they're made, not only have we had hundreds of them but they always end the same way. People trying to justify, people flaming nonsensically, and everybody thinking that what they believe is what everybody should believe.



			
				Op said:
			
		

> People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.



No they don't, and please just stop this nonsense because nobody really cares. This may be a gaming forum (which was originally a rom site), but we still have discussions on things such as flash carts, and because of this there will be pirates. Nobody cares what you think of them, don't complain about them here. If you want to talk about how piracy is wrong then go to GameFAQs, where all of the zealots will agree with you and you will have a huge fun party and a lot of cake.


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## Vidboy10 (May 26, 2009)

It depends on the game really.
If its's something like GTA:CW than i wouldn't pirate it.


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## Moots (May 26, 2009)

I'll throw down on this.  From a pro pirating stand point.

Why I pirate.

-Game quality for all platforms has diminished significantly over the past 10 years. 

-Game Companies are putting out games that are practically unfinished (Next gen mostly) (Leaving game modes out until later, see fable, and Bad company I believe) 

-Game prices in no way shape or form represent a games quality. I refuse to pay 70 dollars on a game I play once and can't even stomach finishing. 

-PIRACY DOES NOT HAVE AS BIG OF AN IMPACT ON GAMING COMPANIES AS, SAY GAMESTOP OR EB.
They are a pawn shop, and are having record year after record year of profits, and not one of those dollars go to game companies. 

Consider this aswell, even if I do buy a legit copy of a game. I'll go pick it up at EB used for half the price and the Dev still doesn't see a dollar of it. 

Gamestops last few financial years?

Total sales for the full year increased 24.1% to $8.8 billion, in comparison to $7.1 billion in fiscal 2007. Comparable store sales increased +12.3% for the full year. 

In 1 year a 1.7 BILLION DOLLAR increase, most of it from the used game market. They are the biggets game retailer in the world because of it.  Now like I said, not all of that is from used games, but I bet a majority of it is. 


So if you want to fight for the people who make games, so they can make more quality games (Which astill wouldn't happen if we stopped pirating)  fight companies like GS or EB. They do more damage than piraters do. 

Just wait, what will be the big headline in the next couple years? Not about anti piracy I can tell you, but about the outrage that either a tax/charge will be applied to used game purchases, or an outrage that that charge cannot be implemented.

Just wait. That and Canada will become extremely wealthy due to our large supply of fresh water.

Note:I do buy certain games, especially of franchises I am a fan of (Ex CT, FF, NHL, etc)


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## Cermage (May 26, 2009)

you can't possibly have a decent reason for pirating anything.  a try-before-you-buy reasoning okay if the publishers don't release a demo but then most of the time they release adequate in game videos and screenshots. if it has bad controls or the controls are just bad most reviews will cover it so you can expect bad controls.

only reason you don't buy games is simply cause you dont want to pay for them. simple as that. there is no reinforcing the fact you dont want to spend money on games. 

then there is also the downside to everyone buying full marked retail game. a reasonable amount of sales is okay but if too much the dev's get a bit greedy and think that they can pass off half-assed sequels and still make a tonne of money. and which most of the time, they do.


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## Deleted User (May 26, 2009)

Yay, another discussion about piracy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Just so you know, I buy a lot of games but I would be pissed if there wasn't a way to pirate them too. Fun fact: In the last 5 months I bought 17 (!) XBox 360 games + several DS and GBx games.



			
				leiger said:
			
		

> ...
> * Convenience --- Ability to take your whole (legal) game collection with you on a single cart, instead of carrying all of them with you
> ...
> That's still illegal where I live.
> ...


Strangely enough I paid about 200 EUR for each one of my 3 GBA flashcarts (64Mb, 256Mb and 512Mb) back in the days and I didn't even know anyone that had one (personally - of course GBAtemp was another case).


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## Toni Plutonij (May 26, 2009)

mishra said:
			
		

> you can't possibly have a decent reason for pirating anything.  a try-before-you-buy reasoning okay if the publishers don't release a demo but then most of the time they release adequate in game videos and screenshots. if it has bad controls or the controls are just bad most reviews will cover it so you can expect bad controls.
> 
> only reason you don't buy games is simply cause you dont want to pay for them. simple as that. there is no reinforcing the fact you dont want to spend money on games.
> 
> ...


I remember paying for my EZ-Flash II Power Star 512Mb a bit more then 100 EUR, it would probably be even more if I hadn't buy it from a German shop..
And as you say, they weren't so spread out..People now complaint over price of AK or DSTT, and that's only few bucks..


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## BlackNeedle (May 26, 2009)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> And as you say, they weren't so spread out..



What's that talk about flashcards not beeing aviable to everyone? You think of piracy becoming kind of a privilege? And who do you think those privileged guys should be? You?
That's just pointless gossiping.

And for the argument of games beeing only aviable at very high prices (and they for sure are, even croatia must have a mail delivery service, so get yourself some imports): does that change a thing? It's just a spin-off of the general "I-won't-buy-that-expensive-shit" argument.

What I found to be a lot more interesting is how you showed that the game developers actually have the money to make better games. I checked, and it's actually the same for many of them, i.e. Square Enix, who have a growing net income as well as they just took over Eidos.
~BlackNeedle


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## Lily (May 26, 2009)

Warning: This is probably going to be a bit of a long post. If you don't like reading long posts, move to the next post!

#1. You're on a forum chock full of pirates. You're not going to have a reasonable discussion about the morality of pirating in such a place. At best you're going to get lots of justification, because many people feel guilty or called out when you try and impress the belief upon them that piracy is flat out wrong. There's a lot of automatic defensiveness, because most people know that they're doing something that's (not right/not legal/whatever). They don't need or want the morality police coming around and raining on their parade. You're more than welcome to your opinion, but remember where you are. What you're doing is like being a black person and walking into a KKK convention to say: "Hey guys, what's up?". You have to know your audience.


#2. Everyone has a different reason for pirating:

-Games are too expensive in their native country, or aren't available at all;
-Import costs are unbearable;
-It's easier and faster to download than it is to walk to the store and purchase it;
-Can't afford to buy what they want;
-Demo isn't available (and no, specially edited videos and screenshots are not enough);
-Don't see the value of a game on a particular platform (i.e. people see DS games as being worth less than games on other platforms);
-DRM hinders the games experience, and the cracked version is free of that DRM;
-Want to be able to take more than one game with you comfortably on the go;
-Want to preserve the original copies they do buy;
-Just want free games;
-Have kids that destroy everything they touch, and a pirated copy removes that worry.

There are tonnes more. The point is, it *doesn't matter* what your reasoning is, as long as your own personal moral compass isn't offended by your choices. *You* may not agree with any reason for pirating, but you are not everyone, and most people really hate the person that comes around and tries to force their opinion down everyone's throat, like it's the only opinion that matters. The spectrum of reasons why people pirate is awfully large and many shades of gray. There is never going to be a single right and single wrong answer.


#3. My personal opinions: I've pirated just about everything my entire life. The very first 'online' access I had was to bulletin board systems, and the private sections were full PC software and games, pictures of nekkid ladies, etc. It's learned behaviour. I was literally the kid in the candy store, who suddenly realized she could have anything she wanted for free. That's a hard (if not downright impossible) pattern to break. I download movies, music, books, games, whatever I feel like partaking in. It's easier and faster to download these things. To buy a phsyical copy of something leaves me needing to store it somewhere. I don't care about collectables and art books and all that nonsense. If I really wanted to see the art book or listen to the soundtrack, guess how I would do it? A $50 modchip gives me access to a system's game library for free? Done. A $12 cartridge gives me access to all the DS games for free? Done. There is no incentive for me personally to buy anything, when a quick search on the internet brings up what I want. Why am I going to buy it when I can get it for free, and have the same (or better) experience as the person who bought it? Most of the time, movies are available before their DVD release date, games are available before their street date, music albums are available sometimes *months* before their street date. Why wait? It's there, ready for the watching/playing/listening with a couple of clicks.

However, I will note some exceptions to my pirate everything rule. I buy the PC games I'm interested in on Steam now. It's easier than waiting for a crack, (there really aren't too many active PC groups with great crackers these days) and it's better than waiting for a proper of that crack. I have access to any of the games I purchased on any computer I'm on, as long as I have access to an internet connection. I can download them as many times as I want. I don't have to store them on my shelf, on discs, or on an external hard drive. The prices (in North America) are more than fair, and undercut retail stores pretty heavily most of the time, most definitely during their weekly sales. I don't have to worry about keeping a disc in the drive to satisfy some anti-piracy check. The convenience of pirating the game has been brought to me in a package where I have to dole out a few bucks for each game. That's OK. PC game piracy has been a pain the past few years. I also now have time to play the PC games that I spend money on. As a dirty rotten pirate, I used to download everything that looked remotely interesting. I'd play maybe 25% of what I downloaded, burn and store the rest, and maybe finish 3% of the 25% I bothered to play. Now that I've decided to fork out some money, I pay greater attention to my choices, and play each one through to the end. I've actually regained my enjoyment of PC games, go figure. Now if it's not on Steam, I won't buy it.

The other exception is eBooks. I've always been a Palm person, and they have a piece of software called eReader. The Fictionwise book store is a great place to buy eBooks for eReader, with frequent sales, discounts, rebates, etc. I used to pirate books (i.e. JPG scans, poorly typed copies), but with Fictionwise, I've been able to buy the books I want to read and be able to read them how I prefer--on my Palm Treo. I just load up my SD card with the books, and away I go. I can download the books I've puchased whenever I want, as long as I have an internet connection. Convenient. Easier (and way better quality) than pirating.

Everything else though, I still pirate. It's all about convenience for me. It's too easy to pirate nearly everything. I don't make excuses for it, I don't try to justify it. I don't care if anyone else likes it or not. I don't feel entitled to any of the things I download, or that it's my right to have them. I don't feel that if they're too expensive, I'm entitled to steal a copy because I still want to play. I personally pirate because it's easier and more convenient than the alternative. It's not about right or wrong for me. If we end up in a situation where there are laws preventing pirating, and the ISPs, etc comply, I simply won't play the new games or watch the latest movie. I wasn't going to buy them anyway. The end.


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## Toni Plutonij (May 26, 2009)

BlackNeedle said:
			
		

> Toni Plutonij said:
> 
> 
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> ...


Haha, no..

Flashcars were always available for everyone, but only if you knew where to look....Now, you can find them anywhere, and in my opinion, it kinda ruins the whole thing..
I'm not saying it's a privilege, I'm saying it's too easy....

And you are aware that shipping costs $20 from any place to Croatia AT VERY BEST!
Name me one game that is worth paying $60 (no matter where I buy it)..Not to mention risk of getting it lost during the shipping, or waiting for a game for two weeks or more..

Any anything I said above isn't exaggerating.....It's really how things are..

And after all that said, I'm not even trying to justify me being a pirate..I would pirate even if I had games here at the price of $30..Because in my opinion, it's still too much..
If games are priced $10-$15, of course I'd buy them..

And besides, we have no strong laws against piracy.....I could literally approach a police officer and show him my DVD collection or NDS with a flashcart, and he'd probably ask me where could he get the same thing for his kids..


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## Cermage (May 26, 2009)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

> mishra said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the Price and unavaliability of games still doesnt justify pirating. You just dont want to fork out your money to buy the game. you do have options of importing from other countries, which is what i do when i can't wait or a game doesnt came out to PAL terrotries. But you don't take that option, instead choose the easier, cheaper choice of piracy. bottom line is people just don't want to shell out the money, regardless of how much it is when they can pirate it instead.


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## Minox (May 26, 2009)

mishra said:
			
		

> the Price and unavaliability of games still doesnt justify pirating. You just dont want to fork out your money to buy the game. you do have options of importing from other countries, which is what i do when i can't wait or a game doesnt came out to PAL terrotries. But you don't take that option, instead choose the easier, cheaper choice of piracy. bottom line is people just don't want to shell out the money, regardless of how much it is when they can pirate it instead.


You see, most people here don't try to justify pirating. They know that what they're doing is wrong, but they still choose to do so anyway due to many kind of different reasons. Now if you don't feel like pirating stuff and buying everything then sure, do so. I don't care, that guy over there don't care in fact I'm pretty sure that most people here don't care if you buy your games or not. And if you think that pirating is wrong then just avoid doing it yourself and stop trying to force others to stop with what they're doing. Then you'd at least feel somewhat good for not doing something you see as wrong while others can continue to do what they do without having to be annoyed by preachers such as you.


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## Toni Plutonij (May 26, 2009)

mishra said:
			
		

> bottom line is people just don't want to shell out the money, regardless of how much it is when they can pirate it instead.


I would agree completely......Only, I'm saying (and that's just my opinion) if one game is $10-$15 I'd buy games no thinking twice..

But there is no way I'm giving $60 for a game..

And again, I'm not justifying my habit of pirating..There is no need, I love pirating..


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## da_head (May 26, 2009)

i don't try to justify pirating. i know it's wrong, but i do it anyways


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## Cermage (May 26, 2009)

Minox_IX said:
			
		

> mishra said:
> 
> 
> 
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This is an discussion about piracy/purchasing no? what i originally did was put my opinion across stating you cant justify piracy by any means. but Toni put out the point that pricing/unavailability or the conditions the person is living is a (sorry if i took it wrong) a valid reason for them to pirate. i just further stated the only reason people really pirate is because they dont want to pay for it =\.


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## Domination (May 26, 2009)

If the opportunity is right in front of your eyes... why not grab it? I'm not saying piracy is good but buying games can take a toll on your wallets.

We'll talk about buying games when KH, spirit tracks, soul silver are released in english 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and next month when I have $ (starfy is worth a purchase)


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## zuron7 (May 26, 2009)

What should I do in a country like mine.


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## Toni Plutonij (May 26, 2009)

mishra said:
			
		

> This is an discussion about piracy/purchasing no? what i originally did was put my opinion across stating you cant justify piracy by any means. but Toni put out the point that pricing/unavailability or the conditions the person is living is a (sorry if i took it wrong) a valid reason for them to pirate. i just further stated the only reason people really pirate is because they dont want to pay for it =\.


Well, I'm just saying that it's easier to pirate then spend too much money, on the item, wait for it two or more weeks (risk of not getting it at all), and then in the end realize that game is crap!


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## Minox (May 26, 2009)

mishra said:
			
		

> Minox_IX said:
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You can have your reasons for downloading copyrighted material illegally without justifying it at all, that is what I'm trying to get through to you


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## MaHe (May 26, 2009)

I have been pirating games as long as I can remember, but recently stopped. What was becoming an increasingly larger problem was _the pirate syndrome_. I had so many games for my DS and my Xbox 360, I couldn't decide what to play - and the moment I got bored or frustrated, I switched to another game. And that's where metaphorical shit hit the fan. I only finished the games I really, really liked from the start (for instance, Call of Duty series and GTA), but gaming was eventually no fun at all.
Then I got banned on Live! and I just decided to try and play bought games for a while. I had original Mass Effect, that I've hated the first time I tried it. Today, I've replayed it three times already and am in my fourth run. It just grew on me (maybe it was also the fact I spent 70 € on it, which was a highway robbery). I still pirate movies and TV shows, but there's no pirate syndrome there.


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (May 26, 2009)

jesterscourt said:
			
		

> Once everyone adopts a system like Steam (and no, WiiWare doesn't count) I think the piracy rate would be moot.


Steams been cracked for about along time and then theres always nonsteam versions of games somebodies going to find a way just like they did with steam and the cracking servers than the vac attacks


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## Da Foxx (May 26, 2009)

The only games I pirate are the ones that I'm not sure are worth the money. Also, reviews don't really help nowadays because they are all bias so you always get to sides of opinions on the game. I buy games that I think are worth to add to my collection. Same goes for my DVD's.


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## leiger (May 27, 2009)

*BlackNeedle*
_you missed out the "I-only-try-those-games-out"-argument. For me, that always sounded like a dull excuse, because if you follow the line most of those guys would actually never have enjoyed any game, because they never bought one. I actually only know of very few people who stated "I bought that game after I realized it's enjoyable while playing it off my flashcard.". Of course no offense meant, there ARE some of those honourable men.[/quote]_

Exactly - that was the one I'd forgotten!

*Toni Plutonij*
_
People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.
says person with this sig:
1 x DSLite, 1x DSPhat, 1x CycloDS Evo, 1x Acekard 2i, 1x EZ Flash V 3-in-1 Plus
Stop being hypocrite and sharing your opinion on forum full of pirates.._

I use those to play the games that I personally dumped, as well as for homebrew when I'm bored with those. How is that hypocritical?

_EDIT:And just to point out, I agree that flashcarts should be more expensive, and not accessible to everyone!_

Price is the big issue. If they were more expensive, people might be more willing to pay for games. In that respect, I agree.

*Guild McCommunist*
_I really fail to see the relevance of this post. A good portion of this site is dedicated to info about flashcarts, emulators, roms (not downloads, of course). So, honestly, if you're trying to go on some white knight crusade to destory evil, you're at the wrong place. And welcome to the internet. A good portion of people who have half a brain about using the internet pirate things. That's life._

I'm merely making a point and stating my opinion. This thread is called "Pirating vs. Purchasing", not "Purchase your games!! 1337 haxxors burn in hell!!" ... I wanted a *discussion*.

*UltraMagnus*_
Honestly, how much of the money you pay for a game actually goes to the people that programmed it?  I would be very surprised if more than 1% did, with the rest going to corporate fat cats and lawyers.
not to mention, us pirates get games earlier, get games that don't come out in our region at all, and don't have to faff around with carrying dozens of easily losable little cartridges.
_

True, the developers get very little. That makes my point about supporting them more important, as they need every bit of income they can get if they're going to be convinced to continue developing games.

As someone posted below you, there is evidence that these developers are rich yet still not producing better games. Well, what's the point when creating a better game will just mean more pirates to download it? All I'm trying to say is that piracy is definitely a big business decision with developers and the big N, and influences the types of games they create. When creating a better game will result in the same amount of income or less, some don't bother. Thankfully, there are still good quality games being developed, so I haven't lost hope in the industry.

*IchigoK2031*_
I literally have like a bajillion ds boxes in my room, I've probably spent like 3-4 hundred on ds games but only on ones that were gud, if I try them out at all I use an emulator, then if they're good, go to gamestop and buy them, then I go home and download and play, the game might not ever be opened but its gud for the developers.
_

Some people (including anti-piracy law) would disagree with that, but I can see the point. The actual decision to buy the game, despite having a pirated copy already, is the action of someone that is not a pirate, in my opinion. I was doing this myself for a few weeks at one point, then decided to just go back to reading reviews as the temptation to keep them was too much. And I'd already made the decision that I would buy anything that was good enough.

I can always sell the games I don't like on eBay as "like new with manual and box" and get back almost what I paid for it.

*Law*_
These threads should be locked the second they're made, not only have we had hundreds of them but they always end the same way. People trying to justify, people flaming nonsensically, and everybody thinking that what they believe is what everybody should believe.
People that pirate games just annoy me, because they have more of an effect on the market than they suspect.
No they don't, and please just stop this nonsense because nobody really cares. This may be a gaming forum (which was originally a rom site), but we still have discussions on things such as flash carts, and because of this there will be pirates. Nobody cares what you think of them, don't complain about them here. If you want to talk about how piracy is wrong then go to GameFAQs, where all of the zealots will agree with you and you will have a huge fun party and a lot of cake.
_

The cake is a lie! (portal reference for those that don't realise)

Anyway... I'm not trying to force my opinion on people. I'm explaining why I don't pirate, and I'm explaining why you shouldn't pirate either. If you continue to do it that's your choice, we'll just agree to disagree on this.

*Moots*_
Why I pirate.
-Game quality for all platforms has diminished significantly over the past 10 years. 
-Game Companies are putting out games that are practically unfinished (Next gen mostly) (Leaving game modes out until later, see fable, and Bad company I believe) 
-Game prices in no way shape or form represent a games quality. I refuse to pay 70 dollars on a game I play once and can't even stomach finishing. 
_
I've given my reasons for game quality being so low. And as for the price reflecting the game - consider that different people have different tastes. Those games are marketed based on popularity, so some little kiddy game that is popular will have a much higher price tag than a good, quality game that noone knows about.

_So if you want to fight for the people who make games, so they can make more quality games (Which astill wouldn't happen if we stopped pirating)  fight companies like GS or EB. They do more damage than piraters do._

True, EB Games and Gamestop and a ton of other stores are in the preowned games market and are making a killing off of it. And true, that money doesn't touch the developer's wallet at all. Obviously that doesn't apply to the point I made because it doesn't give the developers anything -you're right.

_Note:I do buy certain games, especially of franchises I am a fan of (Ex CT, FF, NHL, etc)_

Then I won't be sitting here wishing you'd burn in hell or something then will I?


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## Maktub (May 27, 2009)

Minox_IX said:
			
		

> I definitely would buy DS games if they weren't so god damn expensive, but as the pricing is set atm a completely new PC game is much cheaper than let's say a 3 year old DS game. There's something wrong with that logic.
> 
> When it comes to PC games however I tend to buy most if not all games I find enjoyable/awesome.


I think I'll be voting PiratPartiet, min vän


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## leiger (May 27, 2009)

*lilsypha*_

#1. You're on a forum chock full of pirates.

#2. Everyone has a different reason for pirating:
(...)
There are tonnes more. The point is, it *doesn't matter* what your reasoning is, as long as your own personal moral compass isn't offended by your choices. *You* may not agree with any reason for pirating, but you are not everyone, and most people really hate the person that comes around and tries to force their opinion down everyone's throat, like it's the only opinion that matters. The spectrum of reasons why people pirate is awfully large and many shades of gray. There is never going to be a single right and single wrong answer.

#3. My personal opinions: I've pirated just about everything my entire life. (...) It's learned behaviour. (...) That's a hard (if not downright impossible) pattern to break. However, I will note some exceptions to my pirate everything rule. I buy the PC games I'm interested in on Steam now. (...) Now that I've decided to fork out some money, I pay greater attention to my choices, and play each one through to the end. I've actually regained my enjoyment of PC games, go figure. Now if it's not on Steam, I won't buy it. The other exception is eBooks.(...) I can download the books I've puchased whenever I want, as long as I have an internet connection. Convenient. Easier (and way better quality) than pirating.

Everything else though, I still pirate. It's all about convenience for me. It's too easy to pirate nearly everything. I don't make excuses for it, I don't try to justify it. I don't care if anyone else likes it or not. I don't feel entitled to any of the things I download, or that it's my right to have them. I don't feel that if they're too expensive, I'm entitled to steal a copy because I still want to play. I personally pirate because it's easier and more convenient than the alternative. It's not about right or wrong for me. If we end up in a situation where there are laws preventing pirating, and the ISPs, etc comply, I simply won't play the new games or watch the latest movie. I wasn't going to buy them anyway. The end.
_

Wow lilsypha, and amazing post! Wish everyone would write like this.

1. I get your point, so if people that pirate feel morally wrong then they should do something about it. Either contribute to the discussion as you have (without flaming or mindlessly using CAPS in their post), just read along and follow what's said, or rethink the way they do things.

2. Reasons for pirating:
_
-Games are too expensive in their native country, or aren't available at all;
-Import costs are unbearable;
-Can't afford to buy what they want;
_
Okay, I can see the point that some people are making here. Obviously the gaming companies don't like any excuse, but this is one they can fix by having a greater presence in those countries, I suppose. If it's a good game, I'd suggest importing it whatever the cost may be. If it's just a maybe, would pay for it if I could afford it, etc ... then I can see why the games are pirated. Half tempted to agree that I might do the same thing in that situation.
_
-It's easier and faster to download than it is to walk to the store and purchase it;
-Just want free games;
_
I'll be blunt. That just sounds lazy. I'll admit that I've been in the situation where I've suddenly decided to buy a game but it's in the middle of the night,when everything's closed. Pirating the game is only a short download away. Sometimes I've pirated it,then went out and got it the next day, or the day after. So I can understand certain reasons for downloading vs. buying, but not because it's  "easier" than walking or driving to the store.
_
-Want to be able to take more than one game with you comfortably on the go;
-Want to preserve the original copies they do buy;
-Have kids that destroy everything they touch, and a pirated copy removes that worry.
_
Which is the reason I use flash carts. I back up my games for the simple reason that it's convenient, don't need to carry all of the games with me, just the flash cart and that's it. There's something very satisfying about buying a game, and about knowing that you're playing on a rom that you personally dumped from your own cartridge. Guess my consience (spelling?) is at work there.

I think the point you're making is that doing this is still considered "pirating". Well, true, it is in places such as the USA. Yet I put that down to idiots trying to take away what you should rightfully be allowed to do (I mean.. you bought the game .. why not make backups? The US law states that as game cartridges aren't as volatile as the older memory storage methods, backups aren't needed - but that fails to take into account what I believe is a right to make copies of your own games so that you can use them all on one flash cart)

As an example to that last point, I know someone that runs on a similar ethical stand-point as me. He buys his games (and a lot of them, rich bastard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and backs them up. Immediately after that the originals are locked away where they can't be touched by anyone unless he needs to re-dump the game onto the flash cart. A "pirated copy" as you put it. Well, like I said I don't consider that to be piracy, even if US law does. I don't live in the US, and pity any gamer that does feel threatened by those laws.

3. Okay, I've already responded to most of that. I agree somewhat with what you say and have mentioned where I don't. No intend to flame anyone or make them feel guilty, but if guilt does come up people seriously should think about why they pirate games, and whether they'll consider buying a few good quality games brand new (not preowned from EB/Gamestop)

*mishra*_
This is an discussion about piracy/purchasing no? what i originally did was put my opinion across stating you cant justify piracy by any means. but Toni put out the point that pricing/unavailability or the conditions the person is living is a (sorry if i took it wrong) a valid reason for them to pirate. i just further stated the only reason people really pirate is because they dont want to pay for it =\.
_

And some of those arguments about the conditions someone is living in make sense. I agree somewhat. Good points.

Although I'm definitely not rich, I'm not as poor or as unfortunate as some (ie. I actually have access to games in my country). Brand new price here is about $65 AUD each (that's $51 USD). I buy what I can afford to try, and the rest I rely on a gaming community and review websites to try out. If they don't like the game, I won't buy it.



Thank you to those that posted about their country not having proper support from nintendo. Having to rely on stores to import then sell at exceedingly high prices, I can see where you're coming from. Don't know enough to make a proper opinion on what I think about that reason for piracy though, so I won't comment much.

*x.domination*_
If the opportunity is right in front of your eyes... why not grab it? I'm not saying piracy is good but buying games can take a toll on your wallets.
_

Then buy what you can afford, and miss out on the rest? I mean, who needs a collection of 10+ games when they only play a few of them at a time? Buy a handful, play them, then buy some more once you're able to afford them. That's my opinion (and it's open to discussion, not trying to force it onto people)

*Jeez, all of these disclaimers are giving me a headache 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


*edge199715*_
What should I do in a country like mine.
_

I don't know, what is a country like India like?
- Do you have game stores? What price do they sell the games for?
- Do the game stores offer games such as final fantasy, mario kart on DS, and GTA, etc?

*Da Foxx*_
The only games I pirate are the ones that I'm not sure are worth the money. Also, reviews don't really help nowadays because they are all bias so you always get to sides of opinions on the game. I buy games that I think are worth to add to my collection. Same goes for my DVD's.
_

Good point. Though if you can find some good, honest reviewers (not the main websites like IGN or GameFAQs), I find that it's usually a good guide to read those and see what they think.


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## leiger (May 27, 2009)

Minox_IX said:
			
		

> mishra said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to "preach" anything, and it seems to me that Minox is just explaining why people pirate (well, maybe a bit of preaching too once I re-read it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

I think that however many times this discussion has already been started, it needs to be done again. The most important issue relating to flash carts and mod chips is anti-piracy laws. That's why I created this thread.


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## juggernaut911 (May 27, 2009)

I has teh long postzorz 2 gaiz!11.1.1 Skip ahead if you can't read. dun worry, it's in teh Impact!! jk


My pirating policies are the following:
-If it is a decent multilayer game or a game developed by Valve, purchase via Steam.
-If it is a decent single player game, purchase via GameStop or whatever as I like to share my games with my brothers, saves us moneez!
-If it is a game with bad reviews but appeals to me, find a demo. If there was no demo (which pisses me off because companies either don't make a demo, the demo sucks by lasting 5 minutes, or it is better than the full, legit game.) Pirate. If the demo was good and I enjoyed it, got feedback, etc., purchase it via whatever means.
-If it is crap game that is just the common shovelware, pirate if I'm bored, which usually doesn't happen.

Nowadays, games have really lost their touch. The only games That I have purchased recently (via Steam or other means) were Fallout 3, Far Cry 2, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, and Left 4 Dead (but that's because it had a Valve logo on it which means SERIUS BIZNUS!!!). I even pirated an indie game (which I plan on purchasing when I get money) called Braid. Braid was a fantastic puzzle/time-bending game that I have yet to beat. I simply love it. The sad part is that Braid is better than most of the trash titles that are published today *cough* EA *cough*.

Speaking of _ coughing_, they are one of the biggest video game cash cow companies around. They suddenly jump on the "Mac is a gaming platform too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 " bandwagon which consists of Mac users too arrogant to use a Windows OS or game publishers or developers looking to port junk for more moneez. Now looking at the Windows OS point, there are actual games whether it be from a flash site or the "Windows Ultimate Extras". Better yet, there are actual not crap companies (barely, which reverts back to the "rushing of the games of the shovel of the ware of the wha'chu talkin' abou', Willis?!" point.) such as Bethesda, Valve, Bungie (kinda pushing it), and more. Mac has a couple ports that look like junk on the "beautiful Mac" (wtf is that fagballs?!). The EA ports are mainly shovelware in themselves, but when it is not a shovelware game, it is just a cruddy one, especially after the porting process causes it to looking like the color palette was assembled from raccoon turd (RA3 Mac water details, hello?). /end mac mini-rant. /end EA mini-rant.

But yeah, I only pirate when I have to or feel like it... which is self-contradicting in a way. I like to purchase games with the boxes and manuals and junk because it is satisfying. I buy single player games because I share with my brothers (if you call that illegal distribution, suck my balls!). Lastly, I buy games because they are entertaining. I hate buying a PC game that you can't return only to find it sucked because a bias reviewer gave it a 8/10 and there wasn't a demo, but there *was* some tweaked out footage of the best scenes from the game, only to find out that it was a bigger lie than the cake. What crap is that?! It is basically false advertising the way they do it. They stage it to look good, take all your money, then slap you in the face and tell you to go home.

Hitting the false advertisement point, IIRC, Madden release a commercial of one of their lame games that quickly hits the $5 bin at your local gas station that basically showed PS3 (or 360, I don't remember nor do I care) footage, scaled to the PSP to make up for the scrotum licking graphics. This was uncovered but the people who wanted the game didn't care, they either loved the game and were too stingy to return it or knew they could return it because it was NOT a PC game scam. Now I don't know of any PC games that screw their commercial hard enough to make Mario Wars look like Crysis but I bet there is that marketing business going on. You know, where they totally steal your money by releasing crappy balls and then topping it off with Douche Retainment Malware (DRM, lolz, cleverness). Well, I'm not going to point any fingers but frick, EA.

Now I'm not going to try to be bias but... Just forget I just said that... My hatred for EA comes from their DRM which is a reason for piracy (more of a newer excuse). My brother was obsessed with Mass Effect, which he had a good reason to be, it has a great plot, great graphics (minus the annoying lens flare), and to top it off, well the first two points covered it in a small proportional way, it was a quality game. It good over the neck shooter that banged an RPG who's baby was the gorgeous Mass Effect. He convinced me to buy it. Cool, but soon after I learned about the DRM for Mass Effect, nearly constant internet connection required to frikin play offline?! No way. Well _thankfully_, EA _fixed_ that by removing the unlimited install limit to a 5 install limit that still required internet to activate (after that you're fine). I lucked out and they patched the activation before I bought so I just used one of my installs without minding, but not wanting to share. Now my hard drive died on me, cool... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EA was kind enough to release a "Deauthorization" tool for the other games that were punished by DRM. The thing is, it was about 2 years after the initial release. Now after reinstalling my game, I had only 3/5 installs left. They way I understood is that the No-CD patch (I love those dearly!!!!!) bypassed the online activation as well. Too late, it also had a lot of flaws such as crashing on the entrance to the galaxy map. After a dispute with the EA customer support demanding my activation limit be replenished to 4/5 to recover from my HD death, they said no can do. I used the leash removal tool/Deauthorizer on my Mass Effect which it then told me I had 5 installs available. WTF EA, can you tell me when you be semi-honest?!

But yeah, I have laundry to do, peace out!
Hurray Pirates!
Juggernaut911


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## 1NOOB (May 27, 2009)

no free game , i woudnt  buy the console...


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## War (May 27, 2009)

My reason for pirating is simple; I just can't afford to buy the games.

I don't get an allowance, I can't find a job, and my mom is unemployed. I still want to be able to enjoy games, even if I can't afford to buy them. That's why I just download them. But if I DID have a job, and if I wasn't in such a crappy economical situation, I would definitely buy games. In fact, about 2 years ago, I had about 15 or so DS games. Things just haven't gone too good for my mom and I, so I've resorted to pirating.


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## wchill (May 27, 2009)

War said:
			
		

> My reason for pirating is simple; I just can't afford to buy the games.
> 
> I don't get an allowance, I can't find a job, and my mom is unemployed. I still want to be able to enjoy games, even if I can't afford to buy them. That's why I just download them. But if I DID have a job, and if I wasn't in such a crappy economical situation, I would definitely buy games. In fact, about 2 years ago, I had about 15 or so DS games. Things just haven't gone too good for my mom and I, so I've resorted to pirating.



Stole the words out of my mouth. Except my mom is employed. But she's stuck in a $550k debt hole. Not good.
Plus using a flashcard is more convenient as I don't have to have all my games at once.
Plus there are thieves all over the place, so I have to make things as inconspicuous as possible (i.e. not having 500 DS games jiggling around in my pack)


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## Heran Bago (May 27, 2009)

Maybe we should have a serious legal discussion thread for people who have studied law?


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## juggernaut911 (May 27, 2009)

Heran Bago said:
			
		

> Maybe we should have a serious legal discussion thread for people who have studied law?



But who studies law better than pirates?!?!


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## aragon (May 27, 2009)

Interesting thoughts being shared here. Here are my two cents.

One reason for using a flashcard is being able to play hacked or translated roms. Starmen's translation of Mother 3 is a shining example for a fan powered release of a brilliant game. I think the big companies should pay more attention to their audience, not only looking for sales numbers, but for what the gamers would like to play.

I really despised SE for taking down the Crimson Echoes project. If you take a close look at the games released, there are lots of shamelessly recycled titles (like, how many releases of FF or Ys?). OTOH, games which have not been released outside of Japan for decades find their way mostly by fan translations.

Innovative titles like "Big Bang Mini" or "Soul Bubbles" get lost in a sh*tload of carelessly ported games and movie licences or Im*gine crap. If I go to my store, there are lots of titles missing that I would prefer to buy.

Release strategies will always be a complete mystery to me. Why can't I buy "Dark Spire" in Europe now? Why would I have to wait? 

All this adds up to why I see people using flashcards.


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## BlackNeedle (May 27, 2009)

aragon said:
			
		

> One reason for using a flashcard is being able to play hacked or translated roms. Starmen's translation of Mother 3 is a shining example for a fan powered release of a brilliant game.



I'd also like to say that despite there already were some "uhh rep3torz alr34dy g0t tha 100 timez" I found it quite nice to hear other peoples' opinion on the topic.
And to continue riding the homebrew-wave, you also wouldn't be able to use emulators without flashcards. By the way, emulating the GBC for example is also piracy. If we were to follow Ninty, none of us would be able to play Dragon Quest Monsters nowadays!
~BlackNeedle


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## quepaso (May 27, 2009)

The truth is, the games being released are not worth their asking price, not by a long shot.  Also, hardware is overpriced.  Its really the only reason to own a Xbox 360, since the hardware is made out of straw, the software is buggy and overpriced, and their customer support is a joke.  No one should support such douchery, but burning the games is a good way to tell microsoft how you feel.


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## Islay (May 28, 2009)

Who says it pirates doing all the damage, to be honest pirates are just a focus point as there easy to blame.


heres an example:
A store buys new game/DVD, from there owners, Say MGS12 or something *we all know it will get to 12 or something lame like that*
Any bunch rich people walk in buy load of copys for friend and what not, then then trade them in for cash *which a lot of place do*

Do u buy the second hand copy for 40e(A) or a new one at 70e(B).

I think we all know that were going to pick (A) right, lowering the number of new games that are need to keep up with sales.

this is just my 2 cents.


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## IzzehO (May 29, 2009)

I have never been fully convinced that piracy leads to a lost sale. I can honestly say that of the few hundred odd games I've booted up on my DS - I would not have bought ANY of them. I would simply borrow from a friend or well.. sell my DS. 

The example fits on any platform, be it PC games, which has always been a more clear example of this as there are many free alternatives to playing games on a PC. Movies (Seriously how many out there would have just waited for it to air on TV?), TV shows (the same) and so on. 

I just can't justify piracy stealing any where near as many sales as Nintendo would have you believe.


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## DSGamer64 (May 29, 2009)

I buy games worth paying the money for, and my issue is that especially with a new game that potentially could be a series and in the case of the DS, a lot of games seem iffy to me at first until I play them, I mean I played GTA Chinatown Wars before my cart bricked on me and while I was waiting for a new one I bought it and have purchased other games in the past after trying them out on my flash card as well. Really though, these days I am disgruntled as a gamer because while there are good games for any console, major developers still constantly put out tripe games. Nintendo continues to put out crap that a real gamer like me doesn't give two shits about like Wii Fit, honestly their idiotic mentality has also ruined their big name franchises or they just turn around and milk them. Ubisoft, Nintendo, EA and a number of other developers are guilty of just ripping off consumers with sequals or "new" games, I laughed at anyone who thought Assassin's Creed was a new idea cause it's just Prince of Persia with some stealth fighting involved and a different character. Seriously, give me something new to play that is challenging to the point where it's almost impossible, I mean like Super Mario Bros 2 difficult, not half assed rehashes with slightly better graphics. I was expecting more out of games like Super Mario Galaxy and LoZ:TP but instead they disappointed me because they were easy, simple and lacked the challenge and depth that their predecessors had. I remember when Ocarina of Time and SM64 actually challenged me, maybe because I was younger but they were still hard regardless, I pretty much threw a fit trying to clear the Spirit Temple back then.

I don't feel developers deserve to get supported with the constant flow of garbage games being released like movie and TV show tie-in's or rehashes of the same old game *coughGuitarHerocough*, the idiots will actually buy them, the smart people won't until developers lose sales and get it through their skulls that people don't want crap. Sadly as long as people are gullible enough to buy the garbage games (especially parents), they will continue to exist and publishers are too dumb to not publish them even if they suck cause it's all about making a buck.


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## silent sniper (May 30, 2009)

maybe paying $50 for a game is just a douchebag price


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## crookedmouth (May 30, 2009)

I know this is about piracy but I think we should remember that just using a flashcard on the DS is illegal according to Nintendo so, where should our "morals" direct us? To stop using homebrew altogether? I think not, I don't play commercial games really,  I own three commercial games for the DS, Space Invaders Extreme, New Super Mario Brothers and Jam Sessions.


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## Rayder (May 30, 2009)

You know, I could make up a bunch of excuses as to why I pirate instead of purchase.  The fact that you can't take a game back if it sucks, the fact that a game not working in your PC isn't a good enough reason for a return. The fact that some programs (particularly PC apps) are priced far beyond insane.  I could come up with a million excuses as to why I pirate that, from a certain perspective, might even sound valid.  

But I'd be lying.  I pirate simply because I can.  Free better than pay.   I don't care about the companies producing the software or their profit margins, nor do I care what anyone thinks about me. I'm just an immoral rat-bastard who finds it more ridiculous to pay for something you can get for free so easily. God knows no one gives a rat's-ass about my wants or needs.


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## Pizzaroo (May 30, 2009)

I buy games if I want to play the multiplayer. Literally no games today let you play multiplayer if you pirate it. So I'm planning on buying Damnation and Bionic Commando when it comes out


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## Lazycus (May 30, 2009)

Bah, this is the same troll post that shows up every other week.  This entire site is based on piracy.  If the OP really wanted to read discussion of Pirating Vs. Purchasing he could go back and read the numerous threads already posted here and across the internet.  Nothing has been added that hasn't been posted before.

@ OP - You are a pirate.  There is no grey area.  If you have one mp3 you are as guilty as a pirate who has every rom/iso for every system out there.  Using backups of games you already own on a flashcart is the same as a game you don't own.  You may 'feel better' about it but it's all the same.  I pirate DS/Wii games because I can't afford to buy them.  Piracy makes games available to me that I would never have the opportunity to play.  Same with MAME and other emulators - games I could never play again or never had the chance to play in arcades are all available to me.  At the very least I'm honest with myself.  Look down on me and continue with your smug replies, but at the end of the day I know you're as dirty as me.


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## leiger (May 31, 2009)

Lazycus said:
			
		

> Bah, this is the same troll post that shows up every other week.  This entire site is based on piracy.  If the OP really wanted to read discussion of Pirating Vs. Purchasing he could go back and read the numerous threads already posted here and across the internet.  Nothing has been added that hasn't been posted before.
> 
> @ OP - You are a pirate.  There is no grey area.  If you have one mp3 you are as guilty as a pirate who has every rom/iso for every system out there.  Using backups of games you already own on a flashcart is the same as a game you don't own.  You may 'feel better' about it but it's all the same.  I pirate DS/Wii games because I can't afford to buy them.  Piracy makes games available to me that I would never have the opportunity to play.  Same with MAME and other emulators - games I could never play again or never had the chance to play in arcades are all available to me.  At the very least I'm honest with myself.  Look down on me and continue with your smug replies, but at the end of the day I know you're as dirty as me.



I'm not attempting to be "smug" with my replies.

As far as whether I am a pirate, in Nintendo's eyes, of course I am. Simply owning a CycloDS puts me in that position, even if I didn't use it. I'm lucky enough to live in a country that isn't so tough on 'piracy' for game consoles. Americans can be arrested for making copies/dumps of their own games, whilst Australians cannot under current law. That doesn't make it wrong or right, it's just fact.

Obviously, piracy is a huge topic, and almost anything discussed on this website could be considered to be piracy-related as it covers so many different aspects of gaming, movies, etc. For this particular topic I'm assuming that making personal copies of your own games is perfectly legal, and owning a flash cart or other device that cracks the DS security is also perfectly legal. I'm assuming that downloading and playing games that you did not pay for is illegal and morally wrong (except those, I guess, that download them just to test the games then buy or delete them).

All of that is actually against the law in 99% of the countries represented by GBAtemp members, but for the purposes of this topic I'm making a few exceptions. Otherwise this topic would turn into exactly what others have said it would, a flame war.

I purchase a CycloDS, and recently bought an Acekard 2i as well. I dump my own games, and play those. I download homebrew games, and play those. The only homebrew app I use is Moonshell, apart from a few dedicated to backing up games and game saves. The reason? *a* To keep all of my games in one, easy to access place *b* To keep my games in perfect condition, stored away in a cupboard *c* To have some fun with cheat codes whenever I want to try something different for a while. *d* To play my game dumps that haven't been translated to English _*I consider that, for the purposes of this thread, to be legal.*_ Of course, it's actually something that I could be arrested for in a country like the US.


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## blueskies (May 31, 2009)

Rayder said:
			
		

> I pirate simply because I can.  Free better than pay.   I don't care about the companies producing the software or their profit margins, nor do I care what anyone thinks about me. I'm just an immoral rat-bastard who finds it more ridiculous to pay for something you can get for free so easily. God knows no one gives a rat's-ass about my wants or needs.


This. I've read through this thread, thinking about why I pirate. Rayder sumed it up nicely, I pirate because I can. It's easy, convenient, and free. My only justification is that I rarely finish games I download because of the 'pirate syndrome'. I have too many games to play, and don't care much about the ones I download. If I spent the money on the game, I'll make an effort to finish it.

On a side note, I recently got rid of my XBOX360, Wii, and PSP, all hacked, because I just didn't have time/energy to play the multitude of games I had for them. I've been buying PS3 games recently, and I notice that I dedicate more time to them, and actually want to play them. I still have DS and GBA flashcards though.


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## DSGamer64 (May 31, 2009)

silent sniper said:
			
		

> maybe paying $50 for a game is just a douchebag price


Prices for video games have been drastically inflated over last gen. GC/PS2 and Xbox games were like 40-50 dollars, now next gen games sell for 59.99 and up, I am glad I don't own a PS3 or 360 because the prices are retardedly expensive. I don't care if the cost of development has gone up, the price of a game shouldn't be inflated by 30 dollars. PC games are still pretty cheap by comparison to console games, at most you wind up paying 40 dollars for most games, however there are some games like Elder Scrolls IV was like 80 dollars here when it originally came out.


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## FAST6191 (May 31, 2009)

Flaregon said:
			
		

> Who says it pirates doing all the damage, to be honest pirates are just a focus point as there easy to blame.
> 
> 
> heres an example:
> ...


Two words:
VPN - (hamatchi is one)
hacked servers.
Most will support one or the other in some form. You also have the option of waiting 3 months by which time the game should be patched and likely on sale for pocket change (then you can just grab the serial if a keygen has not already appeared).

Back on topic we have had this debate many times over the last few months/years and I am not up for tapping out a wall of text right now. I will say the game industry as a whole has rather little sense of business:
"this game cost us X million to make and we may not get that back"
Any other industry:
If your return on investment is less than 1:1 and you are not doing it as a loss leader then you messed up; if there is a next time spend less/do it better/pay attention to your projections.

I guess my response will be something like:
"I pirate therefore I am"; his whole game features some of the best programmers, engineers and the like anywhere and giving that up would be a mightily foolish decision.


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## Islay (Jun 4, 2009)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> Flaregon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I only buy second hand games, its the only way to get good ps2 game like Kingdom hearts.
I was just pointing out that pre-owned game would lower sales on bran new game after a free week, would make sales look smaller then they really are.

Second hand games are need to stop new games going off the deep end price wise.
Look at the lean mean grilling console, the ps3, it games started at 70euro, (100) Dollars.
they would never of gone down to 40-50 in a year if there were no second hand version.


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