# Muslim Brotherhood: ‘Prepare Egyptians for war with Israel'



## TLSS_N (Feb 1, 2011)

A leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt told the Arabic-language Iranian news network Al-Alam on Monday that he would like to see the Egyptian people prepare for war against Israel, according to the Hebrew-language business newspaper Calcalist.

Muhammad Ghannem reportedly told Al- Alam that the Suez Canal should be closed immediately, and that the flow of gas from Egypt to Israel should cease “in order to bring about the downfall of the Mubarak regime.” He added that “the people should be prepared for war against Israel,” saying the world should understand that “the Egyptian people are prepared for anything to get rid of this regime.”

Ghannem praised Egyptian soldiers deployed by President Hosni Mubarak to Egyptian cities, saying they “would not kill their brothers.” He added that Washington was forced to abandon plans to help Mubarak stay in power after “seeing millions head for the streets.”[/p]

source


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## SPH73 (Feb 1, 2011)

Both sides just want to destroy the world.

F*** them both. They've both brought nothing but suffering to the world.

There is no holy land.


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## Etalon (Feb 1, 2011)

How many % of the poulation might follow the Muslim Brotherhood?

10& or 30%..? I'm not sure about that.

People need education...


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## Jakob95 (Feb 1, 2011)

A big fuck you to these muslim people.


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## Slyakin (Feb 2, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> A big fuck you to these muslim people.


I take that quite offensively, asshole.


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## etraininnj (Feb 2, 2011)

Israel would wipe Egypt off the map in about 10 minutes if that happened.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 2, 2011)

Slyakin said:
			
		

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How is it offensive?  I said to *these* muslim people, not ALL.


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## Oveneise (Feb 2, 2011)

I really hope this doesn't happen... the Middle East could sure use some peace right about now. Hopefully the civilians will be able to find solace in something.


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## golden (Feb 2, 2011)

etraininnj said:
			
		

> Israel would wipe Egypt off the map in about 10 minutes if that happened.


Then Iran would wipe out Israel in about 10 minutes and then World War 3 would begin. Then 20 minutes later, the world would cease to exist. 

So with that unfortunate reality, I don't think Israel would be able to take down Egypt that quick since no one dares use nukes.


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## petspaps (Feb 2, 2011)

golden said:
			
		

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I actually lolled at that


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## mehrab2603 (Feb 2, 2011)

There's nothing to lol about. That actually scares me.


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## petspaps (Feb 2, 2011)

i guess it might be kinda scary that were gonna be cockroach food if this happens but meh


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## GeekyGuy (Feb 2, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Both sides just want to destroy the world.
> 
> F*** them both. They've both brought nothing but suffering to the world.
> 
> There is no holy land.



I agree with most of what you said, except I do believe there is a holy land. It resides, however, in the spiritual realm. Either way, Israel has a big role to play, I think, in whatever it is that needs to take place during the major changes this world will inevitable see and experience.


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## SPH73 (Feb 2, 2011)

golden said:
			
		

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That's something I can agree with.


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## Uncle FEFL (Feb 2, 2011)

This religious mumbo-jumbo never makes sense to me. Then again, maybe it's not supposed to for someone who can think as an individual.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 2, 2011)

I really don't understand why they hate Israel so much...


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## Uncle FEFL (Feb 2, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> I really don't understand why they hate Israel so much...


Muslims and Jews dun mix.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 2, 2011)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

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There are like 100x more Muslims then Jews I don't understand why they hate each other anyways for.  Why can't they just live their life's normally religion shouldn't be forced upon you but an optional thing.


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## Etalon (Feb 2, 2011)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

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Yeah. And Sony and Nintendo don't mix as well.

But the truth is: There are quite a lot that play Sony and Nintendo. 

Although I prefer Nintendo.


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## Evo.lve (Feb 2, 2011)

Middle East militaries suck.

The people are trying to look tough and go "ZOMG LOOK AT ME I PWN U". In all reality every single country in the Middle East, half of Asia and most of Africa could attack Israel. Israel would win, that's practically guaranteed.

They want to keep looking tough and have an impact on the rest of the world.


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## Uncle FEFL (Feb 2, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

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Muslims and Jews don't hate each other. _Extremist_ Muslims and _extremist_ Jews hate each other. Reasons why they hate each other shouldn't even be thought about because they're blind extremists. Or just stupid.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 2, 2011)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

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Doesn't the reasons have to do with what Israel(Jews) do to the Palestinians(Muslims)?
But I will agree that extremists pretty much hate everyone who doesn't think like them.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 2, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

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Just wondering something but if the Palestinians right now are saying they want there land back which is right now Israel then what will happen to the Jews?  Where are the Jews supposed to go.  The Palestinians are saying that the Jews took their land when Israel was the Jews land back in BC times.


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## Etalon (Feb 2, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> Just wondering something but if the Palestinians right now are saying they want there land back which is right now Israel then what will happen to the Jews?  Where are the Jews supposed to go.  The Palestinians are saying that the Jews took their land when Israel was the Jews land back in BC times.



There are actually a lot of Jews that never have been in Israel.

So it's better to say Israelis. These are the people that live in Israel. Together with Palestinians and whatever kind of people.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 2, 2011)

Etalon said:
			
		

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Anyway, Jews are a member of a religion. They can go wherever the fuck they want. The Hebrews lost their "Holy Land". It's not theirs anymore especially over 2000 frickin years later! Get over it. The Palestinians were there and the Israelis just went and took their land. Worse, they separated them in two instead of making a single territory for them. And they make them unable to get resources like food and medication.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 2, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

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Well that could be said the same for the Palestinians now why couldn't they just go to any other Arab nation and live there?  Its different for jews because nobody accepts them almost, in Israel they can actually practice their religion and be someones.  As you say that the Hebrews lost their "Holy Land" I can say the same thing now the Palestinians lost their land now right back at you.  What are you saying that they make them unable to get resources like food and medication, Israel isn't some jewish government that gets there rules from there holy book.  A Jew probably couldn't even be able to live or even allowed inside in any of those Islamic governed countries.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 2, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

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You can't throw that argument back because these events happened thousands of years ago. They aren't the descendants of the Hebrew either. The Jews of today have absolutely no right over that land and yet it was handed to them because they share the same thoughts about God and life as an ancient people that doesn't exist anymore. And Jews can practice their religion wherever they want. A religion doesn't necessarily need a country. The Jews are people who follow a religion. They don't deserve a country because of that. And Jews are pretty well accepted in a whole lot of countries. The issue isn't the same. It isn't about religion. The Palestinians are a *people* while the Jews are followers of a religion. They had their country and then out of the blue, others decided that the place was now to be called Israel.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 2, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

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Your not thinking this the correct way.  Jews are also PEOPLE not just a religion.  Their religion makes them who they are.  Again there are a lot of factors you have to think about like if its the Jewish holy land then why can't they live their?  Where are all the Israelis that live in Israel right now have to go to now just get kicked out of the country?  Their are also lots of Jewish races that got kicked out of their original countries and they fled to Israel and made it there new home were all their relatives live and friends.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 2, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> Your not thinking this the correct way.  Jews are also PEOPLE not just a religion.  Their religion makes them who they are.  Again there are a lot of factors you have to think about like if its the Jewish holy land then why can't they live their?  Where are all the Israelis that live in Israel right now have to go to now just get kicked out of the country?  Their are also lots of Jewish races that got kicked out of their original countries and they fled to Israel and made it there new home were all their relatives live and friends.


Does the fact they got kicked out of their home countries grant them the right to kick out the Palestinians just because the land was the Hebrew's two thousand years ago? Thus making the Palestinians a bunch of refugees. Now what do the Palestinians have? A few small territories that you can't even call a country. What Israel needs to do is give back some of the territory they stole from the Palestinians so they can call it a country and so they can have authority on their land. And it may be their holy land in their beliefs, but Israel isn't owned by Jews. It is the Holy land of the muslims, the christians and the jews. No one has more right over it than the other. That's why the Holy land argument is complete bullfuck.


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## Nathan Drake (Feb 2, 2011)

The Jewish people are not actually a race. Judaism is a system of beliefs followed by a (large) group of people. That is pretty much the definition of a religion. It is, for one reason or another, a common misconception that those of the Jewish faith are of a different race than others due to references referring to them vaguely as so for their struggles in the past as a group.

Saying Judaism is a separate race makes about as much sense as saying that Christians or Catholics are an entirely different race. Doesn't work that way.


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## Maz7006 (Feb 2, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> I DO NOT support Israel but the truth is, every surrounding nation combined could attack Israel and Israel would still win. They wouldn't even have to use their nukes. *The military in the surrounding nations are pure sh*t. They've already tried to take down Israel and they failed. *
> 
> you speak as if that is the case right now (yes that argument would be valid some 30 years ago), you really believe that Israel alone can stand up to Iran, Syria and the various 'terrorist", as they are dubbed, groups around the area ? I highly doubt it.
> 
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no, what Jews do to plaestinians isn't the MAIN issue. 

the real reason is basically about land issues - as in this "promised" land basically wasn't intended for the jews as they say/argue (not that i condone such claims or deny them but that's generally why they are fighting) the palestininas were living there, and then the jews came along and settled in, and unfortunately this has lead to years of blood bathes and conflicts with the other arab nations; a shame ? - yes indeed.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

> Does the fact they got kicked out of their home countries grant them the right to kick out the Palestinians just because the land was the Hebrew's two thousand years ago? Thus making the Palestinians a bunch of refugees. Now what do the Palestinians have? A few small territories that you can't even call a country. What Israel needs to do is give back some of the territory they stole from the Palestinians so they can call it a country and so they can have authority on their land. And it may be their holy land in their beliefs, but Israel isn't owned by Jews. It is the Holy land of the muslims, the christians and the jews. No one has more right over it than the other. That's why the Holy land argument is complete bullfuck.



The Palestinians didn't have a country before Israel captured the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip either. Check your history before you make accusations such as Israel 'stole' land from the Palestinians. _One day_ after Israel was made a country by the UN they were attacked by Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria. It took months but Israel won. But after that war the so-called 'Palestinian territories" were not occupied by Israel - they were the property of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. And nobody in those Arab countries seemed to have a problem with 'occupying' the land in question. It wasn't until 1967 that Israel captured the disputed lands, and once again it was because they got ganged-up on by their neighbors and in response they hit back, hard. When the war was over (it only took six days), Israel didn't shrink back and return anything to the bastards, and why should they? And since then they have returned the Sinai Peninsula (long time ago) and they've completely withdrawn from the Gaza Strip (2005). They probably shouldn't have, but they were pressured by the West and assured it would be an aid to peace. Instead, Hamas is now the government in Gaza and they launch rockets into Israel all the time (over 3,000 in 2008). Both Egypt and Israel have enforced an economic blockade of Gaza since its government is literally a terrorist organization, but only Israel gets the blame for the consequences. This is what comes of trying to play ball. Israel has literally nothing to gain from giving away anything they captured in war against their enemies.  

As for the "Holy Land" argument, I don't really care since Israel is a nation that was established by the UN and has the right to be there and defend itself. But to the extent that religious claims make a difference, find me one mention of Jerusalem in the Koran.


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## Nottulys (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm thinking things are coming to fruition, from some books that I have read.


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## DarkLG (Feb 2, 2011)

The reason the Israelis and Palestenians hate each other and fight is not because they lost their land and are pissed. They fight be cause they continue to believe that way back in the day their first desendents fought over the land that was rightly given to to only one.( Basically Abraham sons Isaac and Esau from the Bible).


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## Frogman (Feb 2, 2011)

Why was this moved??


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## GundamXXX (Feb 2, 2011)

So, the Egyptians decide to revolt against an oppressing regime and then replace it with a religion based regime, one that will make the coutnry a secular Muslim country? When in fact a large portion of the Egyptians are Christian or Koptic?

Well all I can say is this is NOT going to fly


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## Hanafuda (Feb 2, 2011)

Coreyfrog7 said:
			
		

> Why was this moved??




Good question. The other thread about Mubarak's announcement that he wouldn't seek reelection (duh) was moved too.


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## DSGamer64 (Feb 2, 2011)

golden said:
			
		

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If Iran tried to do anything against Israel, they would get bombed. No one should be screwing around with Israel, not when you have over half the western world supporting them and the US government loathes Iran to no end. Anyone who thinks a war between Egypt and Israel is going to bring down the Egyptian government is fooling themselves, it's falling on it's own and more pressure from the people will ensure that. I don't think the majority of Egyptians would support going to war just to bring down their own government and it's certainly something Israel does not need right now. Egypt and Israel have been at relative peace because of the current government though, and if they bring in a Muslim backed government in Egypt, that could really break things.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 2, 2011)

I would like to know why this was moved as well, this is news and I for one believe it does not belong in the edge of the forum.


side note, Netanyahu said  himself he was up for a land trade, but that was depending on the situation at hand.


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## monkat (Feb 2, 2011)

News belongs in the EoF?

Could we at least get an explanation? I'm extremely curious...


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 2, 2011)

This just shows that I was right. Egypt is not ready for a democracy, to many religious people and fanatics! On the other hand Tunisia, for example, has a very enlightened, good educated and western orientated middle class.
Tunisia wins, Egypt lose. 
I will cancel my holidays to Egypt if this muslim brotherhood gets into parliament.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 2, 2011)

ManFranceGermany said:
			
		

> This just shows that I was right. Egypt is not ready for a democracy, to many religious people and fanatics! On the other hand Tunisia, for example, has a very enlightened, good educated and western orientated middle class.
> Tunisia wins, Egypt lose.
> I will cancel my holidays to Egypt if this muslim brotherhood gets into parliament.


I went to Egypt several times and have family that live there and there aren't that many extremists and fanatics. And just how does having religious people make a country unable to have a democracy?


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## Jakob95 (Feb 3, 2011)

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That kind of scares me...


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 3, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

> I went to Egypt several times and have family that live there and there aren't that many extremists and fanatics. And just how does having religious people make a country unable to have a democracy?
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The fact that there aren't many extremists and lunatics in Egypt scares you?


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## Jakob95 (Feb 3, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

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No its the way he said it lol.


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## Glyptofane (Feb 3, 2011)

Hanafuda said:
			
		

> The Palestinians didn't have a country before Israel captured the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip either. Check your history before you make accusations such as Israel 'stole' land from the Palestinians.


Old Maps of Palestine

The Maps Tell the True Story


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## Stevetry (Feb 3, 2011)

Israel is very powerful they beat countless army's in the past  the beat 6 different army  and if i remember correction the 50s to 60s Egypt declare war on them again and Israel almost march to there capital to take them over they ere stop by the usa and other nations.


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## BlueStar (Feb 3, 2011)

The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood isn't particularly popular amongst the Cairo protesters either.  The main problem is that if democracy is brought to Egypt, any party voted into power won't be running on a platform of maintaining the Egypt side of the Gaza blockade, which is why the West, for all its lauding of democracy, hasn't been very keen on removing the dictatorship in Egypt.


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 3, 2011)

SPH73 said:
			
		

> Both sides just want to destroy the world.
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> F*** them both. They've both brought nothing but suffering to the world.
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> There is no holy land.




Not true. This world is full of suffer.. include America full of criminal and things like that. Not only them. Stop being a racist, man!


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 3, 2011)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> Not true. This world is full of suffer.. include America full of criminal and things like that. Not only them. Stop being a racist, man!



How is he being racist?


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## Pyrmon (Feb 3, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

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What about it?


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 3, 2011)

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Iran?Saudi-Arabia? Yemen? Do you call this Democracies or Countries where Tourist love to go, hu?
Even the own People don't call it democracies (as u see in the many protests in Iran for example) and Tourism is almost nonexistent.
*Laicistic Democracies* are not only the most stable, but also the most fair Goverments. *Religion has nothing to search in Politics. *
I went 2 times to Egypt and I can tell u that their are a lot more religious people than in Tunisia(laicistic), Turkey (laicistic but not arabic, I know) and even Algeria and lets not talk about the middle class which is completely different.
If this guys (for example muslim brotherhood) rule the country, begin to make war with Israel, adopt sharia law or just talk like our _friends_ from hamas, Hisbollah or the Iranian Government, Tourists will not come anymore, Europe and USA will not help with billion of Dollars and the Country will get even more poor and unstable.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 3, 2011)

ManFranceGermany said:
			
		

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OK, but you are talking about when religion occupies a place in the government. The way you said it, it sounded like having religious people in a country made the country unable to have a democracy.
As for Egypt, yes the people there are mostly religious, but how does that affect their government? They have had a dictator for nearly 30 years, that's where the problems come from. If they had had a real democracy from then, they would have a middle class. And the Egyptians don't want the Muslim Brotherhood in power, they want freedom. I should know as I am Egyptian.


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## Saken (Feb 3, 2011)

Lol i love the irony in here.
You people are arguing amongst each other for the smallest of reasons, one of them being that the Egyptians and Muslims can't settle a quite large dispute.
If you people can't even agree with each other, how do you expect them to?
And their issues are on a much bigger scale.


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## Pyrmon (Feb 3, 2011)

Saken said:
			
		

> Lol i love the irony in here.
> You people are arguing amongst each other for the smallest of reasons, one of them being that the Egyptians and Muslims can't settle a quite large dispute.
> If you people can't even agree with each other, how do you expect them to?
> And their issues are on a much bigger scale.


I don't see how us arguing for the sake of arguing means the Egyptians can't take care of themselves. And most Egyptians agree with each other that Mubarak has to go.


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## Gh0sti (Feb 3, 2011)

is this what has been happening in Egypt? i dont really understand what is going on there right now


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 3, 2011)

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I don't say that Mubarak is a good guy, he is corrupt and doesn't give people the freedom they want, *BUT* you talk like the Muslim Brotherhood will not be a strong party and their ideology is peaceful, but we both know that they will win every election with over 40-50% and that they would love to destroy Israel. Aside from that  el baradei isn't a strong leader as he was never in a political position and didn't live in Egypt since many years.
We will see if he (or someone from his party) can calm the Muslim Brotherhood down and work with moderate people from this party.
I doubt that, but I wish for sure that I am wrong...we will see what will happen in the next 6 Month.


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 3, 2011)

*Journalists get f*cked by pro- and anti-mubarak mobs*


			
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> CAIRO — Foreign journalists were beaten with sticks and fists by pro-government mobs on the streets Cairo on Thursday and dozens were reported detained by security forces in what the U.S. called a concerted attempt to intimidate the press.
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> Foreign photographers reported a string of attacks by Mubarak supporters near Tahrir Square, the scene of vicious battles between supporters of President Hosni Mubarak and protesters demanding he step down after nearly 30 years in power. The Egyptian government has accused media outlets of being sympathetic to protesters who want Mubarak to quit now rather than complete his term.
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source

I would also like to add German TV Stations N-TV, ZDF and the magazine Spiegel. 
I was not thinking that even pro-mubarak guys would beat our journalists.


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## Orel (Feb 3, 2011)

But there's a peace agreement, it has no point of it's so easy to take off.. We gave lots of land for that. (I'm for Israel). Another war would be bad..


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## Hop2089 (Feb 3, 2011)

There really is no Holy Land, it's not a promised land, it's been a warfield and bloodbath area for millennia (even someone with limited knowledge of history will realize this), millions have died violently there over the past 5000 years.


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## undercoverjamil (Feb 3, 2011)

all that has to happen is USA getting blown up, israel getting blown up and the world will be peaceful again.
Israel causes war in the middle east and has no right to be there.
USA causes terror everywhere. They have over 1000 military bases in places where it is not needed. They should either F*** off or get blown up.


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## Sterling (Feb 3, 2011)

undercoverjamil said:
			
		

> all that has to happen is USA getting blown up, israel getting blown up and the world will be peaceful again.
> Israel causes war in the middle east and has no right to be there.
> USA causes terror everywhere. They have over 1000 military bases in places where it is not needed. They should either F*** off or get blown up.


Hey, that's not nice. Israel just defends itself (I know they do attacks occasionally), and the US keeps presence everywhere. I wonder how many of those bases contain British troops, or random other UN countries troops?


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## Hanafuda (Feb 3, 2011)

undercoverjamil said:
			
		

> all that has to happen is USA getting blown up, israel getting blown up and the world will be peaceful again.
> Israel causes war in the middle east and has no right to be there.
> USA causes terror everywhere. They have over 1000 military bases in places where it is not needed. They should either F*** off or get blown up.




So, what else did they teach you in the eighth grade?


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## BlueStar (Feb 3, 2011)

Interesting looking documentary about Israeli extremists on at 9pm for Brits and those with access to BBC iPlayer

Louis Theroux: My time among the Ultra-Zionists
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12347050


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## Mid123 (Feb 3, 2011)

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Just defends itself?Are you being serious?


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 3, 2011)

undercoverjamil said:
			
		

> all that has to happen is USA getting blown up, israel getting blown up and the world will be peaceful again.
> Israel causes war in the middle east and has no right to be there.
> USA causes terror everywhere. They have over 1000 military bases in places where it is not needed. They should either F*** off or get blown up.



Are u Arab or Pakistani...something like this?
If so, what the hell are u doing in the western world with ur ideology, maybe ur place is somewhere in the desert, but not in europe?
For the case you're a "real" British guy, shame on u!

I would say, "blow up" all hate mongers in the world, no difference if european, american, asian, arab or whatever...and u could be the first one.

But I would also like to say, that I think that Israel is doing many mistakes and that it takes land which is not theirs.
*But War or Terrorism can't be an answer, for both sides*.


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## Sterling (Feb 3, 2011)

Mid123 said:
			
		

> Just defends itself?Are you being serious?


Yes, I was being quite serious. They are all religious nuts, but Israel has the worst terrorism in any other country. Car bombings are just as common as car crashes. So you tell what is Israel supposed to do? They do whatever quietly.


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## BlueStar (Feb 3, 2011)

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Oh well, guess they should kick people out of their homes, illegally take land, bomb civllians with banned weponry and create a prison ghetto where they slowly starve people to death, that sounds like the reasonable course of action and something which will surely calm the situation.


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## Sterling (Feb 3, 2011)

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Hell yea! That sounds totally reasonable, and just as effective as the Holocaust!! /sarcasm.


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 3, 2011)

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If u want to be in Europe, u act educated and European. We don't want people here which like to blow up other people, no difference if its an Arab which say this against israel, or a jew against an muslim.
I mean we had enough hate and wars here, enough people died because of religions or sick ideologies in my part of the world and we will not let Nazis or Religious extremists to grow hate against other people,as both are dirt and rubbish, we don't want them here.
If he would have said the same but against Arabs or Asians, I would have reacted the same and branded him as a Nazi.


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## Rogue_Syst3m (Feb 3, 2011)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> This religious mumbo-jumbo never makes sense to me. Then again, maybe it's not supposed to for someone who can think as an individual.




maybe someday they can figure out more wars start over religion, rather than the USA, its always our fault until they need our help, its sad we invest in more foreign countries than we do our own. sometimes we need to let people settle things themselves, instead of us jumping in, then it always gets into yea yea infidels trying to invade the holy land.

let them settle their own issues.


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## BlueStar (Feb 3, 2011)

ManFranceGermany said:
			
		

> If u want to be in Europe, u act educated and European.



Just like 'u'!


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 3, 2011)

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This is quoted out of context, but as u have nothing else to say to what I write, I will answer it as simple as ur mind works:

*yes, just like me.*

You guys can hate somewhere else.


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## Hop2089 (Feb 3, 2011)

Wars or any conflict with a large religious emphasis should be banned under the Geneva Convention.  It has gotten out of hand.


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## Mid123 (Feb 3, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Israel is an illegal and racist state.They try to justify the taking of land that isn't theirs and the oppression of palestinians by saying that according to a book that's thousands of years old, they belong there.


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## steve-p (Feb 3, 2011)

just remember that the rabies in israel say that any non-jew only exists to be their slaves.

these talmudic bastards have been murdering & desroying everything around them since recorded history.
so it's safe to assume they where even doing it before then!

about egypt, they got themselves an israeli terrorist today - i hope they hang him.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/163427.html


more from egypt here:
http://www.presstv.ir/section/351020502.html


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## BlueStar (Feb 4, 2011)

There's certainly a distinction between 'normal' Israelis and Settlers by the way (ie the people in tonight's documentary who believe they are a superior, god-chosen race of people who have been given land by God and anyone who is currently living in that land is just the equivalent of the vermin you must clear out to move into a derelict property)  But that crazed minority hold a disproportionate amount of sway within the political system, and the more moderate Israelis in government are fearful of stepping on their toes.  And there's a similar problem on the other side.


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## Game Dragon (Feb 4, 2011)

Simple solution let the people speak let there be an election controlled by the UN so that it is a fair election


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 4, 2011)

Game Dragon said:
			
		

> Simple solution let the people speak let there be an election controlled by the UN so that it is a fair election



As long as Zionists hold power and sway with the UN there that would never work unfortunately.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 4, 2011)

undercoverjamil said:
			
		

> all that has to happen is USA getting blown up, israel getting blown up and the world will be peaceful again.
> Israel causes war in the middle east and has no right to be there.
> USA causes terror everywhere. They have over 1000 military bases in places where it is not needed. They should either F*** off or get blown up.
> You fucking retard why would you say that your mind is as fucked up as the people that caused 911.  Israel doesn't cause shit in the middle east its all those Arab countries that are causing problems with Israel.  What would you have thought if I said that the UK should have gotten blown up...
> ...


How isn't it their land?  I am telling you this right now if it wasn't Israel there and Palestine then you would see that it would have been a even worst country.  Just look at Israels economy its the best in the middle east, just look at Israels army, and everything it seems like the other arab countries are jealous that they can't get that far because of their stubbornness, the only think they blame is Israel why the fuck can't they do anything themselves in their only fucking country.   Have you heard the saying about the person who couldn't do anything wright always has to blame someone else...


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 4, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> *You fucking retard* why would you say that your mind is as fucked up as the people that caused 911.  Israel doesn't cause shit in the middle east its all those Arab countries that are causing problems with Israel.  What would you have thought if I said that the UK should have gotten blown up...
> 
> You wanna watch the way you speak to other people.  What I've highlighted in bold is not acceptable.
> 
> ...



No they're not patriotic to their country, they're patriotic to their race.  They believe in a "master race" ideology similar to Hitlers "Aryan Nation".  Do you think the extermination of another ethnicity/religious belief is "patriotic"?  Would you praise Hitler for what he did, after all he was only being "patriotic"?  You should actually do some research on Zionism dating back to the early 1900's, from before the nation of Israel existed, before making comments on what Zionism is.


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## GreatCrippler (Feb 4, 2011)

Actual true "Zionists" are extremely rare. It is a fun slur used by Arabs to degrade a people they believe inferior. Israel is a modern country with modern goals. A lot more than can be said for most of their neighbors. Sorry, but try telling me someone in this world has been more persecuted than Jews, and I call BS.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 4, 2011)

GreatCrippler said:
			
		

> Actual true "Zionists" are extremely rare. It is a fun slur used by Arabs to degrade a people they believe inferior. Israel is a modern country with modern goals. A lot more than can be said for most of their neighbors. Sorry, but try telling me someone in this world has been more persecuted than Jews, and I call BS.



It doesn't matter how rare they are, they are in power.  And no, "Zionist" isn't a fun slur used by Arabs, "Zionism" is a documented racial and political ideology.  The Jews may have been heavily persecuted in the past, but does that really give them the right to persecute others?


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## GreatCrippler (Feb 4, 2011)

Persecute those who would destroy their race as opposed to look at them? Not saying it's right, but seems like sound logic to me.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 4, 2011)

GreatCrippler said:
			
		

> Persecute those who would destroy their race as opposed to look at them? Not saying it's right, but seems like sound logic to me.



Defend yes, persecute no.  And if you study the documentation available on the Zionist ideology you'll see that even before the nation of Israel had been created they already had plans to drive Arabs out of the area through any means necessary.


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## GreatCrippler (Feb 4, 2011)

Not uncommon to drive people from what you believe is your promised land. To call the Arabs in the region the persecuted ones is a little much though. Palestinians within the Israel borders? Maybe, but that is an internal conflict, and none of the U.S, or British's concern.


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## Etalon (Feb 4, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> GreatCrippler said:
> 
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You know, I'd prefer to hear something about Video Games from you.

Because you're not educated or inteligent enough for world politics. Sorry.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





"Zionist ideology" is a Nazi term.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 4, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> GreatCrippler said:
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GreatCrippler is write they do want to destroy the race.  Every time on Yahoo Answers or something people always say stuff like "All the arabs should create one military to wipe all the Jews out of Israel and then the whole world"  and the answers people give mostly are Yes you are right we should do that the people that write no they get low ratings and Yahoo hides their posts.  I see more Muslims hating on jews then Jews even caring about muslims in my school.  Plus their are like 1.5 billion muslims and only about 13 million Jews. It is shocking of how the Israelis built up their country of how it is wright now with so little Jews in the world.  Also I don't think any Israeli would want to kick the Arabs out of their land and who cares if they do all the arabs already kick out the Jews from their lands.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 4, 2011)

GreatCrippler said:
			
		

> Not uncommon to drive people from what you believe is your promised land. To call the Arabs in the region the persecuted ones is a little much though. Palestinians within the Israel borders? Maybe, but that is an internal conflict, and none of the U.S, or British's concern.
> 
> I'm not saying all Arabs are persecuted, just the ones living in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.  The ones denied outside help.  And you're right, it isn't a British or US concern - but it is a humanist concern.
> 
> ...



Is it now?  So care to explain how it existed before the founding of NSDAP?


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## GreatCrippler (Feb 4, 2011)

Suppose that's my issue here. No faith in humanity, and a belief that people should handle their own dirty laundry. I am far from a Humanist. :-P


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## Etalon (Feb 4, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> *"Zionist ideology" is a Nazi term.*
> 
> Is it now?  So care to explain how it existed before the founding of NSDAP?



Hardcore Antisemitism was not invented by the Nazis. 

This is the foundation of "Zionist ideology" - and it's a well known fake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols..._Elders_of_Zion

This is the real foundation of Israel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

And Herzl wanted peace and harmony between all people that live in Israel. He didn't even care about his own religion. Nobody does...


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## princefarzan (Feb 4, 2011)

@jakob95


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> GreatCrippler is write they do want to destroy the race.  Every time on Yahoo Answers or something people always say stuff like "All the arabs should create one military to wipe all the Jews out of Israel and then the whole world"  and the answers people give mostly are Yes you are right we should do that the people that write no they get low ratings and Yahoo hides their posts.  I see more Muslims hating on jews then Jews even caring about muslims in my school.  Plus their are like 1.5 billion muslims and only about 13 million Jews. It is shocking of how the Israelis built up their country of how it is wright now with so little Jews in the world.  Also I don't think any Israeli would want to kick the Arabs out of their land and who cares if they do all the arabs already kick out the Jews from their lands.
> You sir, clearly have no background info on what has happened and what is happening in the middle east in regards to Isreal because reading your posts make my eyes get cancer. It's like I'm talking to a fanboy(of Isreal) at least put some logic into your posts. Please also learn to write english for the benefit of others so they can actually understand what the hell your trying to say and to not make you look like a complete retard.
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, you clearly are stupid, you would justify kicking out the Arabs out of Isreal which was once there land because the Arabs kick them out of there lands. Flawless logic.


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## GreatCrippler (Feb 4, 2011)

Prove neighboring Arabs want to kill Jews... Umm... 6 day war? Anything the Iranian, Syrian, or former Jordanian government have said about Israel, pretty much... ever?


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## princefarzan (Feb 4, 2011)

GreatCrippler said:
			
		

> Prove neighboring Arabs want to kill Jews... Umm... 6 day war? Anything the Iranian, Syrian, or former Jordanian government have said about Israel, pretty much... ever?



Hmm... I wonder why? Maybe, just maybe if the Jews hadn't claimed territory that wasn't there's to begin with this conflict wouldn't even have risen? Or maybe it's because I don't know, the Jews are on a propaganda campaign trying to lower the status of all Arabs that are in Isreal, suppressing the Palestinians for claiming what was their land? Please do some research further into this topic without a bias toward either side.


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## GreatCrippler (Feb 4, 2011)

Don't talk to me about Bias while using words like "Propaganda." False governments who oppress their people to all sides of Israel pumping their people's heads full of words like "Jihad." Last I checked stealing land is the way most countries are formed. To include yours, and mine. It's not right. That said, way after the fact you can move on, or you can grow old and die. Either way, your own bias is clear. Great thing about politics. You have two sides completely secure in their own ideals, and in the end all sides are nice and full of it.


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## Etalon (Feb 4, 2011)

princefarzan said:
			
		

> GreatCrippler said:
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90% of all Jews live at home - far away from Israel.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 4, 2011)

Etalon said:
			
		

> princefarzan said:
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New York is like second Israel we got millions of Jews here.  Hm now it makes me think why the terrorists chose the World Trade Center for the 911 bombing, then again I am just thinking.  And probably more then 70% of Jews do live in Israel.

Also I would think there are much more Jews in Israel then anywere in the World.  If Israel has a population of 7,653,600 and 75% of them are Jews and there are 13million jews in the world then calculate it.  I don't want to do the math here.


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## ManFranceGermany (Feb 4, 2011)

steve-p said:
			
		

> just remember that the rabies in israel say that any non-jew only exists to be their slaves.
> 
> these talmudic bastards have been murdering & desroying everything around them since recorded history.
> so it's safe to assume they where even doing it before then!



*This are extremists and they don't represent all Jewish settlers in Israel.*
Gosh, how can u generalize like a child? The World is not Black or White, but has many Colors.

We should also not forget that Jews got murdered since thousand of years, don't forget the middle age in Europe, Nazi Germany and collaborators in Europe and later than the Arab countries. U can understand peoples mind, if you know the history of them.

This saying, doesn't intend to be an excuse for the situation of Gaza.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 4, 2011)

princefarzan said:
			
		

> GreatCrippler said:
> 
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So now you think we have to give Arizona, Texas and all those other states back to Mexico because we stole their land?


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## BlueStar (Feb 4, 2011)

Etalon said:
			
		

> "Zionist ideology" is a Nazi term.



No, it's a Zionist term.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Congress


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## Jakob95 (Feb 4, 2011)

Also it feels great for the Jews that they know they have their own country if it wasn't for Israel they wouldn't have their own country.


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## BlueStar (Feb 4, 2011)

Would feel great for the Palestinians to have their own country as well I imagine.  Would feel great if I had my own country as well, can I have yours?


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 4, 2011)

Etalon said:
			
		

> Hardcore Antisemitism was not invented by the Nazis.
> 
> I know that.  But what you said was that "Zionist ideology" was a term coined by the Nazi's.  If it was a term coined by the Nazi's then it would not have existed before either the writing of Mein Kampf nor the creation of NSDAP.  And for what it's worth the Nazi's usually referred to them simply as "The Jewry" or "The Jewish problem".
> 
> ...



So if the US was told to give one of the states in the US back to the Native Americans you would be fully supportive of that?  After all, it is their homeland.


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## Cloak519 (Feb 4, 2011)

I totally understand all of this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 4, 2011)

I've been sitting back and watching this for a while, In part because I was busy and couldn't participate and I also wanted to see where this would go. People seem to forget their history all to quick. and I hope to remind people of the influence it can have on a society. Now, what exactly do I mean by that? well, lets start with the muslim brotherhood.. did you know of there founding influences? I do, they where radicalized by NAZI Germany! Do you not believe me, then have a read. You would be surprised! but that's not all, there are reports of iran having informal ties to the muslim brotherhood. Essentially, Iran has it's tentacles spread throughout the region. But what about Iran, how did this all come to be? If peanut's Hadn't assisted in the overthrow of the shah of iran, there would be not tentacles to spread! Not to forget, they wouldn't be able to fund major terrorist groups!

If Iran wasn't radicalized, they wouldn't be able to finance al-Qaeda! If it wasn't for there funding and the ACLU filing of a lawsuit objecting to national security in preference to the right's of 3 people who raised red flags at the airport, 3 out of 3 Billion! Last time I checked, it wasn't 3>3,000,000,000 its 3


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## princefarzan (Feb 4, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> I've been sitting back and watching this for a while, In part because I was busy and couldn't participate and I also wanted to see where this would go. People seem to forget their history all to quick. and I hope to remind people of the influence it can have on a society. Now, what exactly do I mean by that? well, lets start with the muslim brotherhood.. did you know of there founding influences? I do, they where radicalized by NAZI Germany! Do you not believe me, then have a read. You would be surprised! but that's not all, there are reports of iran having informal ties to the muslim brotherhood. Essentially, Iran has it's tentacles spread throughout the region. But what about Iran, how did this all come to be? If penut's Hadn't assisted in the overthrow of the shah of iran, there would be not tentacles to spread! Not to forget, they wouldn't be able to of funded major terrorist groups!
> 
> If Iran wasn't radicalized, they wouldn't be able to finance al-Qaeda! If it wasn't for there funding and the ACLU filing of a lawsuit objecting to national security in preference to the right's of 3 people who raised red flags at the airport, 3 out of 3 Billion! Last time I checked, it wasn't 3>3,000,000,000 its 3


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## TLSS_N (Feb 4, 2011)

princefarzan said:
			
		

> The Living Shadow said:
> 
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yea, right.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 5, 2011)

There was a couple of regiments of the SS made up of Muslims although I'm not sure of their connection to the Muslim Brotherhood (if they are linked at all) as I've never looked into it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#1943


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## TLSS_N (Feb 5, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> There was a couple of regiments of the SS made up of Muslims although I'm not sure of their connection to the Muslim Brotherhood (if they are linked at all) as I've never looked into it.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#1943



well, it's not like I am going out on a limb here, it's spoken of on the official Wikipedia article.

specifically, references 35 & 36



Spoiler: reference 35



See Ian Johnson, A Mosque in Munich: Nazis, the CIA and Rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in the West (New York: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2010); Matthias Küntzel, Jihad and Jew-hatred: Islamism, Nazism and the Roots of 9/11 (New York: Telos Press, 2007); Klaus-Michael Mallmann and Martin Cüppers, Halbmond und Hakenkreuz: Das 'Dritte Reich', die Araber und Palästina (Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, 2006), and Klaus Gensicke, Der Mufti von Jerusalem und die Nationalsocialisten: Eine politische Biographie Amin el-Husseinis (Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, 2007).





Spoiler: reference36



In addition to the studies listed in the previous note, see the detailed and richly documented analysis by Jeffrey Herf, Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World (New Haven, London: Yale University Press, 2009).



Do I wear a tin foil hat now, do I?

edit: that last line wasn't directed @ you TD, it was just in general.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 5, 2011)

@TrolleyDave 





			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> So if the US was told to give one of the states in the US back to the Native Americans you would be fully supportive of that?  After all, it is their homeland.


Exactly my point.  I wouldn't give it back to the Native Americans because its already our land.  The same goes for Israel now doesn't it.  You just proved me correct.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 5, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> @TrolleyDave
> 
> 
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No I haven't, in effect you've just proven the Palestinians point.  Going by your very own logic the land for Israel should never have been given to the Jewish people because it was already the Palestinians land.

@Living Shadow : Cheers for that info, will have a read of it when I get back from work tomoz.


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## pitman (Feb 5, 2011)

First the Turks start on hating us and now Egypt(only a part of it I believe) wants to destroy us, sigh.

War never changes.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 5, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> Jakob95 said:
> 
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But you never said anything about the US taking the Native Americans land.  You said about the US giving their land back to the Native Americans...


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## BlueStar (Feb 5, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> yea, right.



Yes, right.  You sound like a frothing tin-foil hat wearer, do you actually read what you're typing?

The Muslim Brotherhood is only being spoken of because it's the only opposition party that was partially tolerated by Mubarak, it's not a shoe-in to be the replacement if the US-backed dictatorship crumbles.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 5, 2011)

pitman said:
			
		

> First the Turks start on hating us and now Egypt(only a part of it I believe) wants to destroy us, sigh.
> 
> War never changes.
> 
> ...



I did indeed.  You don't see the flaw in your logic?  You're focusing solely on the settlements captured by Israel, what about the land before the modern state of Israel was formed?  That was owned by the Palestinians and they were ordered to hand it over to the Jewish people.  So if going by your logic that no land should be given back to the Native Americans because it was already yours, then no land should have been given to the Jewish people because it was already the Palestinians.  You see?  In effect you have proven the Palestinians point.


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## BlueStar (Feb 5, 2011)

6 days left to watch:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ybyxp

And an interesting clip.  Chose to believe this guy or not
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00dpljk


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## Jakob95 (Feb 5, 2011)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> pitman said:
> 
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So by your logic the Native Americans shouldn't have given their land the United States because they were forced give it to them.


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## TrolleyDave (Feb 5, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> So by your logic the Native Americans shouldn't have given their land the United States because they were forced give it to them.



For a start there's no logic in your post.  The Native Americans didn't exactly give their land to the Spanish/French/British/USA, the majority of it was taken by force.  Secondly, what exactly does that have to do with the price of a bag of chips, or what I was even talking about?  What I'm saying is that the UN ordering the USA to give say California back to the Native Americans would be no different than the Palestinians being ordered to give land to the Jewish people to form the modern state of Israel.  You support Israel being given the Palestinians land but you wouldn't support the Native Americans being given some of their land back because it's already yours.  You see the flaw in your logic yet?


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## TLSS_N (Feb 5, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> The Living Shadow said:
> 
> 
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What I type is thoroughly researched, If you do not like what I suggest then that is your problem, not mine. I particularly trust the sources I use, and I am not the only one who does. What exactly do you find questionable? That the September 11th terrorist attacks could have been prevented? or that "Mr. president" has radicalized ties? YES, there is corruption in the government, YES the people are unhappy about it, the prices of food, and the poverty! BUT, but you have to remember this, the egyptian government was no where near as bad as other governments in the region! do you hear about hands being amputated for stealing something? NO, but it happens in IRAN. How can you sit there and defend a group who want's the same goals as al-Qaeda, yet chooses to reach them through non violent means? what happens when they are in power? TELL ME, what happens!? they have to turn to violence eventually, Not everyone want's to follow their rules, it is their right to choose what they do, not have someone else choose for them! where where you people when iran was having there protests!?


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## Anj (Feb 5, 2011)

"And the Lord spoke unto *Obama*, go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord, Let my people go, that they may serve me"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




In other news, recent UFO sightings. Here to help Egyptians build more pyramids?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xb9JoGyy98&feature=


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## BlueStar (Feb 5, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus Christ, you sound like a rambing drunk on a street corner, it's painful reading such a frenzied rant from someone who can't spell even basic words.  You could say that for anyone who tries to achieve anything through non-violent means, can't you?  

What's your solution then, install another dictator?  Have the army fire on the peaceful protesters?

For what it's worth I supported the protests in Iran against the conservative regime as well.


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## Theraima (Feb 5, 2011)

I wonder how far this thing with Egypt will go.. Probably to a war tho.


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## GH0ST (Feb 5, 2011)

Oil on fire ... the poor will pay  as ever...



_Why did God let children die ?_


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## BlueStar (Feb 5, 2011)

Why are people assuming that if Egypt gets democracy they will attack Israel?  Iran is run by nutters with an even more fearsome army and haven't attacked.  The main problem for Israel is that anyone elected is unlikely to maintain the Egyptian side of the Gaza blockade, which will impinge on their tactic of punishing Palestinians by starving them until they vote for the right people.  It's more likely that Israel will attack Egypt.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 5, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3440283:date=Feb 5 2011, 05:43 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 5 2011, 05:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3440283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All this "OMG Obama is a sekrit muslim sleeper agent" stuff is paranoid, delusional fantasy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said he was a muslim, I said he had radical ties, Do you want proof? I can offer up proof through the nose! Why dont we look back at his childhood. he was <a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/12/poet-advised-young-obama/" target="_blank">influenced</a> by a <a href="http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/davis.FBI.File.pdf" target="_blank">communist</a> "father figure" at the tender <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/2601914/Frank-Marshall-Davis-alleged-Communist-was-early-influence-on-Barack-Obama.html" target="_blank">age of 10</a>! need I go on?

here is a list of obamas czars:



Spoiler: czars



Afghanistan Czar: Richard
Holbrooke- Ultra liberal anti gun former Gov.of
New Mexico. Pro Abortion and legalize drug use.
Believes capitalism causes most wars
strongly supports Amnesty for illegal aliens
no military or counter insurgency experience

AIDS Czar: Jeffrey Crowley
Homosexual. A Gay Rights activist.
Believes in Gay Marriage and Special Status
for gays. "Gay men are usually more intelligent".
Supports NAMBLA

Auto recovery Czar: Ed Montgomery
Black radical anti business activist. Affirmative Action and
Job Preference for blacks. Univ of Maryland Business
School Dean teaches US business has caused world poverty.
ACORN board member. Believes US should pay slave reparations
Communist DuBois Club member.

Border Czar: Alan Bersin-
failed former superintendent of San Diego.
Ultra Liberal friend of Hilary Clinton. Served as
Border Czar under Janet Reno - to keep borders open to
illegals. Member of chicanos unidos.

California Water Czar: David J. Hayes Sr.
Fellow of radical environmentalist group,
"Progress Policy". supports Kyoto protocal
No training or experience in water management.
Thinks US should pay reparations for Hiroshima

Car Czar: Ron Bloom- Longtime UAW activist
Believes Capitalism the cause of terrorism and global warming.
Has worked hard to force US auto makers out of business.
Sits on the Board of Chrysler which is now owned by UAW.
How did that happen?

Central Region Czar: Dennis Ross
Believes US policy has caused Mid East wars.
believes in open borders Anti gun and pro abortion.
Believes in eradication of "violence gene"

Domestic Violence Czar:Lynn Rosenthal
Director of the National Network to End Domestic Violence.
Vicious anti male feminist. Supported male castration-
testosterone should be controlled substace
Believes Bush knew about 9/11 beforehand
Masterbation should be taught in Sex ed.

Drug Czar:Gil Kerlikowske- devoted lobbyist
for every restrictive gun law proposal
Former Chief of Police in Liberal Seattle.
Believes no American should own any firearm.
Supports legalization of narcotics.
Believes Crack "designed" to target blacks

Economic Czaraul Volcker Head of Fed Reserve
under Jimmy Carter when US economy nearly failed.
Obama appointed head of the Economic Recovery Advisory Board
which engineered the Obama economic disaster to US economy.
Member of anti capitalist "Progressive Policy" organization.
Supports Kyoto accord, cap and trade

Energy and Environment Czar:Carol Brower- Former head of EPA
known for anti-business activism.Strong anti-gun ownership.
Out spoken supporter of "earth first"
believes GW bush invaded Iraq at "behest" of oil companies
Supports kyoto protocol, cap & trade, anti- nuclear
strongly opposes any more oil exploration/drilling

Faith-Based Czar:Joshua DuBois
Political Black activist Degree in Black Nationalism.
Supports slave reparations
Believes GW Delayed Katrina response
Anti gun ownership lobbyist.
Stated engineered AIDS virus "genocide" of black africa

Great Lakes Czar:Cameron Davis
Chicago radical anti capitalist environmentalist.
Blames GW Bush for"Poisoning the water that minorities drink."
No experience or training in water management.
Former ACORN Board member

Green Jobs Czar: Van Jones-(since resigned).
Black activist Member of American communist
Party and San Francisco Communist Party who said Geo
Bush caused the 911 attack and wanted Bush investigated by
the World Court for war crimes. Black activist with
strong anti-white views.

Guantanamo Closure Czaraniel Fried -Rights activist
for Foreign Terrorists. called Israel "American colony"
Believes America the cause of war on terrorism.
Believes GW bush planned 9/11 attacks

Health Czar: Nancy Ann DeParle.Former head Medicare / Medicaid.
Strong Health Care Rationing proponent.
Believes guns are a "health risk"
strongly favors govt subsidy for abortion on demand
married to a New York Times reporter
stated "poverty the cause of most preventable deaths"

Information Czar:Vivek Kundra- born in New Delhi,India.
believes all public information, including labels and news
releases and advertising should be controlled. favors
large expansion of ongoing "echelon" intelligence monitering
of private e-mail by foreign intelligence services
favors wider "discretionary" wiretap powers for local law
enforcement

International Climate Czar: Todd Stern Anti-business
former White House chief of Staff- Strong supporter
of the Kyoto Accord. Pushing hard for Cap and Trade.
Blames US business for Global warming.
Believes fossil fuels are a "war crime"

Intelligence Czar: Dennis Blair- Ret Navy.
Stopped US Anti- missile program as "provocative".
Chair of ultra liberal "Council on Foreign Relations"
which blames American organizations for regional wars.
wants end of any support for Israel

MideastPeace Czar: George Mitchell
Former senator from Maine- Left wing radical. Has
said Israel should be split up into "2 or 3 "smaller
more manageable plots". increased funding for Gaza
US should fund large re-building effort in southern Lebanon
US Should force Israel to make half of knesset muslim
Anti-nuclear anti-gun & pro homosexual.

Pay Czar: Kenneth Feinberg- Chief of Staff to TED KENNEDY.
Trial Lawyer who got rich off the 911 victims payoffs.

Regulatory Czar: Cass Sunstein- Liberal activist judge
believes free speech needs to be limited for the "common good".
Rules against personal freedoms many times- anti 2nd amend.
Animal rights advocate (animals have right to vote!) and
anti-hunting (hunting is murder) Advocate of radical environmetal Animal Liberation Front (ALF)

Science Czar: John Holdren- Fierce ideological
environmentalist, Sierra Club, Anti business activist.
Claims capitalism has caused world poverty,global warming.
supports slave reparations, cap and trade,kyoto protocol,
"earth first!" abortion, open borders, cloning and zero
population growth. No degrees in Science.

Stimulus Accountability Czar: Earl Devaney
spent career trying to take guns away from American
citizens.Believes in Open Borders to Mexico.
Author of statement blaming US gun stores for
drug war in Mexico.

Sudan Czar: J. Scott Gration-
Native of Democratic Republic of Congo. Believes
US does little to help Third World countries. Council
on foreign relations, demands higher US taxes to support UN
Thinks US should "do more" to stop spread of AIDS in africa

TARP Czar: Herb Allison- Fannie May CEO responsible
for the US recession by using real estate mortgages to back
up the US stock market. Caused millions of people
to lose their life savings.

Terrorism Czar:John Brennan- Anti CIA activist.
No training in diplomatic, gov. affairs or intelligence
Believes Open Borders to Mexico and has suggested "dialog"
and diversity training as a way to deal with terrorists
suggested Obama disband US military and intelligence agencies.

Technology Czar:Aneesh Chopra- No formal education in
Technology. Worked for the Advisory Board Company,
a health care think tank for hospitals. Anti doctor activist.
Openly Supports Health care Rationing as "obvious" and
salaried doctors working exclusively for the Gov.health care plan.
Supports "Homeopathic, chiropractic, acupuncture, vitamin therapy
and other "nontraditional" treatments

Urban Affairs Czar:Adolfo Carrion Jr.- Puerto Rican.
Anti American activist and leftist group leader in Latin America.
Millionaire "slum lord" of the Bronx, NY. Owns many lavish homes
and condos which he got from "sweetheart" deals with labor unions.
Wants higher taxes to pay for minority housing and health care.

Weapons Czar: Ashton Carter- Leftist.
Wants all private weapons in US destroyed. Supports UN
ban on firearms ownership in America.No Other "policy"

WMD Policy Czar:Gary Samore- Former US Communist.
believes US should pay reparations to Japan for Atomic bombs
Wants US to destroy all nuclear weapons unilaterally
as a show of good faith. Has no other "policy".



<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There was NO freedom of speech NO democracy or elections and they lived under 'emergency rule' for 30 years!  The US can't say "Oh we want democracy in countries, unless they might vote for someone we don't like, then we'd prefer a dictatorship"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

There was such a thing! But when Hitlers influence came into the region, it all turned for the worse. You would know that if you would have read my sources, instead of calling me crazy. it's called foresight, learn to use it! 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From someone who lives in a country that executes people with a mental age of six?  Have you ever head the expression "People in glass houses"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

sure, avoid the question and try to distract. it's a known <a href="http://badgerherald.com/news/2001/10/11/execution_of_mentall.php" target="_blank">fact</a> that only 35 people have been executed since 1976, and it was ruled by the <a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_DN_0000_8452_ZD1.html" target="_blank">supreme court</a> that it's unconstitutional in 2002. so, obviously it's not going to happen any more! Yes, I have heard that phrase, but the difference is, the united states isn't an oppressive regime who punishes people in such a barbaric manner. 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can you defend a president who runs a dictatorship *omg just leik Hitler!!*  I'm not supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, I'm saying Egypt should have free and fair elections and elect anyone they want.  ElBaradai is not particularly popular amongst the demonstrators in relatively liberal Cairo, because they see him as part of the old government system.  The Muslim Brotherhood was basically a jobber party who was the most tolerated by Mubarak, that's the only reason people are looking at them to fill the void, there's no guarantee they would get a solid majority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes, free=stolen and turn into the next iran! again, foresight. It's ironic that it's the only opposing political party, and you claim that Mubarak's the real hitler in the situation. Where as the real hitler in this situation is the brotherhood.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jesus Christ, you sound like a rambing drunk on a street corner, it's painful reading such a frenzied rant from someone who can't spell even basic words.  You could say that for anyone who tries to achieve anything through non-violent means, can't you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Says you, who honestly gives a damn that everything is spelled to a meticulous T? you can never know what goes on on the other side of the computer so when you misspell something such as "rambing" I don't hold you to it, and you should do the same. I've constantly got a 4 year old stalking me to help him with mario 64 ds, don't you think that can get distracting? I try my best, but it's hard to concentrate! finally, that's the difference between a brutal theocracy, and a democracy! Mubarak didn't run a brutal theocracy, did he? The muslim  brotherhood will!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's your solution then, install another dictator?  Have the army fire on the peaceful protesters?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No and no. Jail the radicals, scrub the region of all the hard liners and terrorists "that includes the terrorists who attack moderate muslims" introduce the teachings of <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Voltaire" target="_blank">Voltaire</a>, <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/John_Locke" target="_blank">Locke</a>, <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Charles_de_Secondat,_baron_de_Montesquieu" target="_blank">Montesquieu</a> to the masses and then move from there.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For what it's worth I supported the protests in Iran against the conservative regime as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

as did I.


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## Stevetry (Feb 5, 2011)

undercoverjamil said:
			
		

> all that has to happen is USA getting blown up, israel getting blown up and the world will be peaceful again.
> Israel causes war in the middle east and has no right to be there.
> USA causes terror everywhere. They have over 1000 military bases in places where it is not needed. They should either F*** off or get blown up.




look at his flag he want us to get blow up so lame ass Britain can be the most powerful nation


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## Nathan-NL (Feb 5, 2011)

It doesn't seem that the Arabs defended their countries good enough and they still haven't got it back, so Israel must be a very strong nation and yes, they are.
No-one should underestimate Israel or the surrounding countries, we should just try to retain peace and try to give everyone what they essentially need.

Ontopic: I am quite concerned about the current situation and unfortunately I expect that there will happen more bad things concerning these matters in the near future.


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## BlueStar (Feb 5, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> Do you want proof? I can offer up proof through the nose!



No, all you can offer is the delusional fantasies of paranoid extremist websites, which feed on gullible young men like yourself who take everything they say as gospel.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 5, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> The Living Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



somehow, I doubt that the Washington times is an extremist website, and so it would seem the telegraph is an extremist website as well? please, enlighten me to a "moderate and mainstream" site then.


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## BlueStar (Feb 6, 2011)

The 'normal' sites you link to don't say what you claim, the sites you link to and quote which say "OMG, Obama appointed a homosexual!" are laughable.

You are the person who wants dictatorship over democracy, censorship over freedom of expression.  The people have spoken, and they have spoken against you.  Suck it up.


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## iMasaru (Feb 6, 2011)

Jakob95 said:
			
		

> Also it feels great for the Jews that they know they have their own country if it wasn't for Israel they wouldn't have their own country.


sooo, would you say it's ok for a homeless guy to break into your house and take it over? just because he doesn't have a house to call his own?

The thing some people aren't getting is that the reason the people of Palestine are angry at the Israeli, isn't because they came to Israel, its due to the fact that the Israeli's have been slowly stealing more and more land from them.
It's quite similar to if your friend was to live in your house and starting calling your things his. You wouldn't be angry that he's in your house, but you would about him taking your things.

Just because the people of Palestine allowed the Israeli's to have some land, doesn't mean its ok for them to start taking more land only because they're not being accepted anywhere else. (Which isn't true as there are majority or them living outside of Israel.)


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## TLSS_N (Feb 6, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> The 'normal' sites you link to don't say what you claim, the sites you link to and quote which say "OMG, Obama appointed a homosexual!" are laughable.
> 
> You are the person who wants dictatorship over democracy, censorship over freedom of expression.  The people have spoken, and they have spoken against you.  Suck it up.



you must really having a blast with this, aren't you. I never linked to a website saying "OMG, OBAMA APPOINTED A HOMOSEXUAL!" infact, none of the links I referenced mention the word homosexual, gay, bi-sexual or any other term. I assume you are referring to the listed czars then. Specifically AIDS Czar: Jeffrey Crowley. I don't care what people do with there lives, if there gay straight or bi-sexual. What I do have a problem with is someone who condones child molestation, and by the looks of it.. you do, otherwise you wouldn't be making a big stink about this. Do you even know what NAMBLA is? no, because you search for material to flame with. For your education and the education of those reading this topic. NAMBLA is an acronym for North American Man Boy Lovers Assosiation, *A PEDOPHILE* front group. Where is it based? In one of the most liberal cities in the nation, San Fransisco. Quit trying to start crap You wont win and you only prove how low your IQ level is to the rest of the forum. 

BTW, HALF of the country wants him out, and HALF of the country wants him to stay we can't put a specific number on either side. Some people actually consider the cause and effect of what they do before they do it, and they fight on.


EDIT! I was just looking at pictures of the protest and I came across this picture. take from it what you will, it's in the spoiler below. the image is of higher resolution when right clicked.



Spoiler












so go ahead and tell me there not extremists, tell me they don't have a radicalized past!

view more high resolution pictures of the even here.


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## Jakob95 (Feb 6, 2011)

iMasaru said:
			
		

> Jakob95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember as soon as Soviet Union broke the majority of Jews all went straight to Israel.  Half of all my relatives live in Israel.


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## BlueStar (Feb 6, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, some angry people burning pictures of their leader and painting him with Israeli and American flags because he's done more for those countries than his own people.  Oh no!  How terrible, we should invade.

I can find some pretty horrible signs held by Tea Partiers if you like?  I imagine most of the world wouldn't like Sarah Palin to become President, does that mean the US shouldn't even be allowed to have Democracy and vote for her?

Let me guess, you were all for bringing 'democracy' to Iraq?  Hypocrite.


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## dryo (Feb 6, 2011)

OK guy HERE'S THE THING,Egypt doesn't give a crapper about Israel,what happens is that Israel doesn't want Egypt to be freed because of "freedom of religion", they think judaism will not prevail befor muslims and muslim religion will cover all of the middle east....and that's a wrong very wrong asumption,the bad thing is...i mean,the bad things are...three things,  EXTREMISTS,OIL andMUBARAK they all link each other all the way from 1990,the SHA of iran ,U.S as you may noticed DOESNT want egypt to let mubarak go,why? because of the OIL!,we know that when we reach the final 5 years of petrolleum something will happen either right, or wrong. What it's logiclly to happen is, that EGYPT extremist will not go trough the extreemes,and will not fight,the U.N will intervene in 1 month and mubarak will be relieved,but democracy will not continue in egypt,what we need is a global legislation over alternative fuels PRONTO,that's the only thing that'll prevent the middle east to go to war...again.


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## BlueStar (Feb 6, 2011)

Basically, to get firmly back on topic, it is naive in the extreme to think an 'emergency rule' brutal dictatorship could be propped up indefinitely, this was always going to happen at some point.  Egyptians are eventually going to look at countries progressing around them and gaining free elections, freedom of the press, not living in fears of thugs like Mubarak's enforcers (who are mostly drug-addicted ex-policemen) and say they want those basic rights as well.  The reason there aren't any traditional political parties to to replace Mubarak is because they were all outlawed!  Of course that's going to mean fringe groups like the Brotherhood are going to try and fill the void, it's another completely predictable outcome of the unsustainable Egyptian system.  But saying that, considering the Brotherhood regularly denounces violence, condemns terrorist attacks and is committed to achieving its aims through peaceful means, I think its fair to say there are far, far worse Islamist ground that could be in the wings.

The best thing that could happen would be to set up a Government of National Unity to restore stability, allow parties like Hizb al-Ahrar and the PDP to re-establish, hopefully along with some new ones.

This is quite encouraging:
http://en.rian.ru/world/20110206/162476811.html



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> The Egyptian youth movement plans to found its own opposition party to "preserve the achievements" of nearly two weeks of the anti-government protests.
> 
> The party demands holding constitutional reforms in Egypt, forming a transitional government, releasing political prisoners and abolishing court-martials for civilians, ending the state of emergency and ensuring democratic freedoms.
> 
> The party's emblem and possible candidates for its leadership are available on Facebook.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 6, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3441761:date=Feb 5 2011, 07:03 PM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 5 2011, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3441761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes,m I know what NAMBLA is, yes I know the slurs and lies aimed at Jeffrey Crowley by homophobic Christian fundamentalists.  No, I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever to support it, no, I don't like being accused of 'supporting child abuse' simply by not agreeing with your that Obama is the devil and anyone he appoints must be some kind of monster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I just said <b>I DO NOT CARE</b> what someone does or what there sexual preference is! <u>WHAT I SAID</u> was that I had a problem with people who supported such groups! stop toting the party line, It would be different if you denounced his actions, but you support him all the way. What am I supposed to take from this conversation other than that! just how much do you want me to go on here? How about Robert Decheine, ring a bell? he was <a href="http://www.politickernj.com/max/22186/decheine-accepts-role-senior-advisor-obama-campaign" target="_blank">Obama's senior adviser</a>, But what the media didn't tell you was that he was recently <a href="http://nation.foxnews.com/justice/2010/11/23/former-obama-advisor-arrested-child-sex-charges" target="_blank">arrested</a> for soliciting sex from a minor. you have no standing.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That entire 'Obama's Czars'" list would be hilarious if the frothing morons forwarding it to each other didn't actually believe the absolute pulled-out-of-the-ass bollocks it contains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yea, right. I fail to see any sources to argue your point. your a sick individual, no wonder the united kingdom is in the shape it is.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BTW, HALF of the country wants him out, and HALF of the country wants him to stay

Followed immediately by

we can't put a specific number on either side.

You just did!  how can you say "Half the country wants him out" and then say "We don't know how many want him out"?  Seems to me like the vast majority of Egyptians aren't happy with him and that was evidenced by the huge protests which were not countered until the government paid hired goons to be bussed in with professionally made signs. 

Maybe if a democracy was installed in Egypt we'd find out what the people want, hm?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What I meant was, there is no way to have an exact number, that it would seem that there are allot of people on both sides. so do not go and claim a victory for one side without having a rough guess as to how many people are actually citizens, and how many people aren't. If you would happen to open your eyes and read every once and a while you would know that The united states <a href="http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/US-Announces-Additional-Palestinian-Aid--107047048.html" target="_blank">gave $600 million dollars</a> in total to the Palestinian Authority, isn't it a co-incidence that hamas has a majority in political power? I think not! Oh, and what's <a href="http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20110129-red-alert-hamas-and-muslim-brotherhood" target="_blank">this</a>? the muslim brotherhood and Hamas seek to increase role in egypt. There already in the <a href="http://www.debka.com/article/20612/" target="_blank">region</a>. So, why wouldn't they follow through with there plans? 

I have already told you, I guess I will have to tell you again. you can't push democracy without teaching it's ideas! why didn't people learn this from the revolution in iran? Its beyond me!


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, some angry people burning pictures of their leader and painting him with Israeli and American flags because he's done more for those countries than his own people.  Oh no!  How terrible, we should invade.

I can find some pretty horrible signs held by Tea Partiers if you like?  I imagine most of the world wouldn't like Sarah Palin to become President, does that mean the US shouldn't even be allowed to have Democracy and vote for her?

Let me guess, you were all for bringing 'democracy' to Iraq?  Hypocrite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

YOU ARE A DAMNED FOOL, did you know that? happen to realize what the man was wearing? that T-shirt? oh yea, it was <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Che_Guevara" target="_blank">CHE GUEVARA</a>! A radicalized communist leader of the 20th century! I've already documented the radicalization of the muslim brotherhood, how egypt is being duped into another theocracy thanks in part to the fake protestor provided by hammas, and how this all was planned from the start. these people don't care about egypt, they only want power in the region to wipe out israel, THAT'S ALL! and they will get it no matter what has to happen.

First of all, Sahrah Palin would not win in an election against Obama, and neither would any of the other republicrat nominees. Secondly the united states doesn't have a democracy. It has a constitutional republic, and it's split up into a trifecta of balanced powers. the people have the right to vote as they see fit! Third, George bush should have went through with a different rout, by installing a democracy in iraq, he effectively gave power over to iran, and once we leave the region for good. Iran will take over through the election cycle. don't believe me? have a look at the constitution of  <a href="http://www.uniraq.org/documents/iraqi_constitution.pdf" target="_blank">iraq</a>, you will note in section one, article two. 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Article 2:
<u>First</u>: <b><u>Islam is the official religion of the State and is a foundation source of
legislation:</u></b>
A. No law may be enacted that contradicts the established provisions of Islam
B. No law may be enacted that contradicts the principles of democracy.
C. No law may be enacted that contradicts<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

lets look back, what religious branch of islam did Saddam Hussein practice? answer: Orthodox Sunni Islam and what was the practiced majority of islam in iraq? answer: shia. what religion does iran practice in the majority? answer:shia. so would it be to much of a stretch that once we leave the region, Iran would put in place a favorable politician that would work with them, and in effect join together to fight the "great satin" America? Saddam Hussein kept iran from gaining power in the region, and now that he's gone, guess what? they just have to bide there time until we leave the region and then they can act! George Bush made a huge mistake when he set out on this plan, sure they have a democracy now! but how long will it last!

<!--quoteo(post=3442628:date=Feb 6 2011, 06:29 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 6 2011, 06:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3442628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically, to get firmly back on topic, it is naive in the extreme to think an 'emergency rule' brutal dictatorship could be propped up indefinitely, this was always going to happen at some point.  Egyptians are eventually going to look at countries progressing around them and gaining free elections, freedom of the press, not living in fears of thugs like Mubarak's enforcers (who are mostly drug-addicted ex-policemen) and say they want those basic rights as well.  The reason there aren't any traditional political parties to to replace Mubarak is because they were all outlawed! Of course that's going to mean fringe groups like the Brotherhood are going to try and fill the void, it's another completely predictable outcome of the unsustainable Egyptian system.  But saying that, considering the Brotherhood regularly denounces violence, condemns terrorist attacks and is committed to achieving its aims through peaceful means, I think its fair to say there are far, far worse Islamist ground that could be in the wings.

The best thing that could happen would be to set up a Government of National Unity to restore stability, allow parties like Hizb al-Ahrar and the PDP to re-establish, hopefully along with some new ones.

This is quite encouraging:
<a href="http://en.rian.ru/world/20110206/162476811.html" target="_blank">http://en.rian.ru/world/20110206/162476811.html</a>

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Egyptian youth movement plans to found its own opposition party to "preserve the achievements" of nearly two weeks of the anti-government protests.

The party demands holding constitutional reforms in Egypt, forming a transitional government, releasing political prisoners and abolishing court-martials for civilians, ending the state of emergency and ensuring democratic freedoms.

The party's emblem and possible candidates for its leadership are available on Facebook.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

you said 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason there aren't any traditional political parties to to replace Mubarak is because they were all outlawed! Of course that's going to mean fringe groups like the Brotherhood are going to try and fill the void, it's another completely predictable outcome of the unsustainable Egyptian system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

everything is so crazy right now, how do we know who can be trusted? also, I have also documented the radicalization of the brotherhood, I am not going back into it again. But if they truely had changed, they would have had some type of reform with there stated goals.

edit: it would seem that the egyptian army has chosen a side, they are apposed to throwing out Mubarak.

<p align=" " class="none">Behind the attempts to restore life in Egypt to normal for the first time since protesters took to the streets 13 days ago, three contests with the potential for triggering the resurgence of violent clashes were simmering Sunday, Feb. 6, in the high army command, the fractured opposition camp and President Hosni Mubarak's governing circle.

debkafile's military sources disclose exclusively that the army, which has been standing on the sidelines of the anti- and pro-Mubarak standoff till now, has decided to stand against the president's premature removal before his term runs out in 200 days' time.

It has come down to a matter of national pride. "We can on no account permit an Egyptian general, hero of the October (1973) War against Israel, to be humiliated, whatever the political price may be," the generals now say.
(A former fighter pilot, Mubarak rose to become Egyptian Air Force Chief of Staff who modernized the air force after its 1967 defeat  by Israel and was later acclaimed a hero of the October (Yom Kippur) war of 1973. Two years later, he became Anwar Sadat's Vice President and succeeded him after the 1981 assassination).

President Gen. Omar Suleiman was influenced by the army's position when he faced opposition leaders Sunday, Feb. 6, at the start of their dialogue on constitutional reform. The Muslim Brotherhood, which initially refused to take part, finally decided to attend, but then announced that the reforms on the table were not enough. It is not clear if they are participants in the constitution reform panel the meeting established.

Suleiman rejected the calls for him to arbitrarily assume President Mubarak's powers and explained to the opposition leaders that their primary demand for the president to resign could not be met. Under the present constitution, Mubarak's signature must be affixed to every constitutional amendment; no other authority has that competence.
If Mubarak is forced to resign before September, the next presidential election at the end of 2011 will be conducted according to the current laws, which the opposition rejects, and the reforms will not be introduced until his successor is elected in 2016, Suleiman explained. Therefore, if the factions insisted on political reforms they would have to cooperate in keeping Mubarak in office and persuade him to sign the new laws.
debkafile's Cairo sources report that most of the opposition leaders were not convinced. He therefore offered a compromise: Mubarak would step down in June "on grounds of ill health" and, against a pledge of safety for himself and his family, he would sign into law the constitutional amendments agreed by the army and opposition factions.
This proposal split the opposition camp. It was rejected out of hand by the protesters conducting a continuous sit-in at Tahrir Square, including Mohamad ElBaradei and the pro-democracy champion Ayman Nour (who was jailed by Mubarak for fraud) as well as parts of the young April 6 movement, some of the Democratic Change faction and sections of the Muslim Brotherhood. They all stand by their unconditional demand for Mubarak to step down at once.

It is not clear if Suleiman and opposition leaders have set a date for another meeting to continue their dialogue.

Furthermore, many members of the president's inner circle object to Gen. Suleiman's approach to the crisis. They suspect him of aiming for middle ground, so far unsuccessfully, between the Mubarak camp and the opposition and army.

Our Cairo sources further report that the effort to restore normal activity in the country was only partly successful. There were long lines outside the banks which had been closed for most of last week. And when account-holders finally reached a teller they were dismayed to find a $10,000 cap on withdrawals. Many of the ATM cash machines shut down after a short time. The markets reported deliveries of no more than 40 percent of their regular produce.
The police presence was patchy, consisting mainly of traffic cops and officers on the beat at markets and stores. The Interior Ministry's security squads, the government's main law and order enforcers, were nowhere to be seen on the streets of Cairo. They feared a settling of scores for their brutal crackdown in the early stages of the protest.</p>

<a href="http://www.debka.com/article/20639/" target="_blank">source</a>


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## BlueStar (Feb 7, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you capable of actually having a single thought of your own, or are you limited to just copying and psting from far right blogs?  How can you learn about democracy without experiencing it?  Whata re you suggesting, the US goes over and educates the 'savages' and when they agree to put into power someone a foreign force tells them to, then they can have 'democracy'?

Going to have to split this because I'm going over the allowed number of quotes.


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 7, 2011)

God damn it, I wrote an enormous post, edited it to add a video of a diplomatic car plowing into peaceful demonstratos and now it's gone.  Wish there was an undo button.

Short version: The protests are not organised by Hamas or anyone else, they eruputed because a poster campaign implied that Mubarak's hated son was being groomed to take over.  You can only oppress people and steal billions from them for so long before they have enough. You have no right at all to insist people half way across the world live under dictatorship because you're scared they might elect someone you don't like.  Claiming they're 'extremists' because one of them was wearing a Che t-shirt and you've been brought up to see him as some kind of demonic figure is hilarious.  You realise hard-core Islamists like the Taliban have been fighting against communists for years?

As for the army 'apposing' throwing out Mubarak, that's a seriously dubious source and that's not even what they're saying in the quotes.  They're saying they want him gone soon, rather than now.  You must have missed scenes like these?






Time will tell if that article has any substance or, like the one you posted about Hamas fighting in Sinai, it turns out to be invented propaganda.

But, like it or not, the genie is out of the bottle and Egypt will never be the same.  The brave anti-government protestors have stood up for their liberty in the face of tyranny and violence and they know that the international community, save for a small lunatic fringe in the US, is behind them.

I don't agree with much on your favourite sites like American Thinker, but maybe you should give this a read and understand why even many of the professional Obama-bashers on the right shirk at the idea of propping up Mubarak.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/sup..._dictators.html

The longer Mubarak oppresses the people of Egypt, the easier it is for the Muslim Brotherhood to play at being the liberators and party of the people.  It's completely counter productive to continue this charade.


----------



## TLSS_N (Feb 8, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3444137:date=Feb 7 2011, 01:08 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 7 2011, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3444137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->WHAT actions?  I haven't supported anything!  Please feel free to quote where I did.  You've not given any proof he 'supports' NAMBLA apart from a cut and paste from a rabid anti-Obama email forward!  Please, do elaborate on how he 'supports' NAMBLA.]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

by refusing to denounce his actions, you in effect support him! and your right, It was from a locked <a href="http://oathkeepers.ning.com/main/authorization/signIn?target=http%3A%2F%2Foathkeepers.ning.com%2F%3Fz%3D1" target="_blank">forum</a> so it was linked <a href="http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/060313-2009-10-23-know-the-obama-czars-by-shawn-roberts.htm" target="_blank">here</a>. Obviously, the sender didn't want to get kicked from the forum so he chose to be anonymous in divulging the information to non forum participants! Even if you don't trust me on this, there is always school safety czar  <a href="http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/obama-appointee-lauded-nambla-figure" target="_blank">kevin jennings</a> he has his own connections to nambla!


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What?  I have no standing because a chief of staff to a politician was arrested on sex charges?  What kind of world are you having this argument in?  Do you want me to go and find various members of the GOP who have done thnigs like solicit sex from an undercover cop in a public toilet, cybered with underaged boys at work or want to redefine r.ape to include only forceful r.ape and exclude statutory [censored]?  What exactly does this nonsense bring to a debate about the future of Egypt?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What I am getting at here is, that he either has a really bad judge in character which is what he wants people to think or, he chooses the people that surrounds him on purpose because he enjoys there company because they are like minded individuals! I also assume you are referencing the check pants republican's Larry Craig and Mark Foley? You seem to miss one important aspect about both of those individuals. They are both Republicans In Name Only, or RINO! do I need to go on to explain what that means? why don't we have a look at some liberals who happen to have the same issues. dubbed "The Lion of the Left" Bernie Ward was arrested for <a href="http://dig.abclocal.go.com/kgo/PDF/oakdale-police-report.pdf" target="_blank">distributing</a> child pornography. what does this have to do with Obama you ask? well, it turns out that Bernie ward worked as  her chief legislative assistant from 1982 to 1985! but it gets better, right before the election, she <a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/neutral_senators_the_nominee_h.php#more" target="_blank">endorsed</a> Obama, A month after the election cycle had passed <a href="http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/11/14/boxer-aide-arrested-distributing-child-porn-media-mostly-mum" target="_blank">ANOTHER</a> aid was arrested on for distributing child porn! He doesn't denounce the endorsement afterwords nor does he acknowledge it, but he ignores it, and two years later he <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=64144" target="_blank">throws a fundraiser</a> for her to get re-elected! would you vote for someone like that over in europe? at the very least, he should have suggested for her to resign! but he needs all the power in congress he can get to push through his radical agenda.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, if I accuse you, or anyone else, of being a paedophile then it's up to me to provide evidence, not you to prove otherwise.  

God, this is going to be a long read if you're going to continue using this bizarre straw man argument and refuse to learn the difference between "your" and "you're" and "there" and "their", I'll have a look at the rest later.

EDIT: Sigh, right, let's try and untangle the rest of this semi-literate mess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

again, the evidence is above, why is it so hard to denounce something such as this? have you ever tried to type with a child jumping all over your back, unless you have you need to back the hell off, it's distracting as hell and I can not help it!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you capable of actually having a single thought of your own, or are you limited to just copying and psting from far right blogs?  How can you learn about democracy without experiencing it?  Whata re you suggesting, the US goes over and educates the 'savages' and when they agree to put into power someone a foreign force tells them to, then they can have 'democracy'?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

where have I "copy and ' "psted" ' " anything? I do not copy anything, I read the article and use it as a source to prove my point, I have never copied a whole article or part of one and used it as my own! What I am suggesting is, that you can't teach a child to sail a boat by leaving him alone at the helm of a cruise ship while you go below deck. the region must learn the same way we have, and not have it thrust onto them! they need to be taught the ideals of a free society from the basics! I never claimed that anyone in the region was "savages" idiot!

<!--quoteo(post=3444192:date=Feb 7 2011, 02:03 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 7 2011, 02:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3444192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->God damn it, I wrote an enormous post, edited it to add a video of a diplomatic car plowing into peaceful demonstratos and now it's gone.  Wish there was an undo button.

Short version: The protests are not organised by Hamas or anyone else, they eruputed because a poster campaign implied that Mubarak's hated son was being groomed to take over.  You can only oppress people and steal billions from them for so long before they have enough. You have no right at all to insist people half way across the world live under dictatorship because you're scared they might elect someone you don't like.  Claiming they're 'extremists' because one of them was wearing a Che t-shirt and you've been brought up to see him as some kind of demonic figure is hilarious.  You realise hard-core Islamists like the Taliban have been fighting against communists for years?

As for the army 'apposing' throwing out Mubarak, that's a seriously dubious source and that's not even what they're saying in the quotes.  They're saying they want him gone soon, rather than now.  You must have missed scenes like these?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

let me <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41452744/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/" target="_blank">source</a> you a new counter point, shall I? "OMG THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON NUKES!!!?!!!" now that you have one free shot to go at me with, I will patiently wait for you to respond on  this one. do you remember that source I mentioned earlier? oh, you know the one, stating that obamas thugs worked back in 2008 with an individual to overthrow the government? well.... the new york post, yes that's right <a href="http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/web_rousers_aid_egyptians_5SuASF4LkN5VawVDjo0asN" target="_blank">the new your post</a> just ran an article confirming my source! This has been in the works as I have been telling you! Back on the subject at hand, I do not support theocracy, I don't know how many times I have to drive it through your skull before you hear what I am saying, I DO SUPPORT DEMOCRACY! but it has to be approached cautiously so that we do not create a threat for the future! remember what I said about the boat and the cruise ship? have you seen the latest article on <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,743825,00.html" target="_blank">der spiegel</a>? <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei" target="_blank">Mohamed ElBaradei</a> said several things, including that he doesn't have any interest with the muslim brotherhood, that the brotherhood is in the minority politically, that if the people wanted him  to run, that he would consider it. He also stated: 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ElBaradei: No. Something the Israelis also need to grasp is that it's impossible to make peace with a single man. At the moment, they have a peace treaty with Mubarak, but not one with the Egyptian people. The Israelis should understand that it is in their long-term interest to have a democratic Egypt as a neighbor, and that it is prudent to acknowledge the legitimate interests of the Palestinians and to grant them their own state."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

what der spiegel fails to call into question is why he <a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/31/elbaradei-as-nuclear-watchdog-was-foe-of-us/" target="_blank">prevented</a> the inspection of irans nuclear facility.

<img src="http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/51020000/jpg/_51020796_011150963-1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Time will tell if that article has any substance or, like the one you posted about Hamas fighting in Sinai, it turns out to be invented propaganda.

But, like it or not, the genie is out of the bottle and Egypt will never be the same.  The brave anti-government protestors have stood up for their liberty in the face of tyranny and violence and they know that the international community, save for a small lunatic fringe in the US, is behind them.

I don't agree with much on your favourite sites like American Thinker, but maybe you should give this a read and understand why even many of the professional Obama-bashers on the right shirk at the idea of propping up Mubarak.
<a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/supporting_dictators.html" target="_blank">http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/sup..._dictators.html</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it wasn't for this moron in the white house starting the whole situation in the first place, our involvement in the whole situation would not have occurred! And it's not a "favorite" website, it's just a source!  

Right, that's why the <a href="http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2011/me_hamas0079_01_31.asp" target="_blank">world tribune</a> and <a href="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/article/0frkcHo6Tf4WX?q=Hamas" target="_blank">the times of india</a> picked up on the story.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The longer Mubarak oppresses the people of Egypt, the easier it is for the Muslim Brotherhood to play at being the liberators and party of the people.  It's completely counter productive to continue this charade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

then don't you think it shouldn't have been instigated in the first place? We could have went through this whole ordeal without violent protests, but it's to late now! Instead, we now have situations such as <a href="http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=40230" target="_blank">this</a> coming into play thanks to the radicals!


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 8, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> by refusing to denounce his actions, you in effect support him! and your right, It was from a locked forum so it was linked here. Obviously, the sender didn't want to get kicked from the forum so he chose to be anonymous in divulging the information to non forum participants! Even if you don't trust me on this, there is always school safety czar  kevin jennings he has his own connections to nambla!
> 
> So, by refusing to believe anonymous, politically motivated bloggers with no evidence whatsoever I support child abuse?  Do you even listen to yourself?  Did you believe everything anyone ever said about Bush and his cronies?  That list you link to has been forwarded for the last 3 years and I've still not seen any evidence at all to say Jeffrey Crowley supports NAMBLA - what 'actions' of his would you like me to condemn, specifically, please?  Top tip, before you try, googling "Jeff Crowley supports NAMBLA" the top result will be this very thread.   Aside from that list I can't even find an _accusation_ that he supports NAMBLA, nevermind any evidence to support it.  So how come you believed it, based on just that one, unsubstantiated line?  I've not seen anything to suggest it's any more than a pulled-out-the-ass smear due to the fact he's connected with Obama.  I'm pretty sure if I was appointed to something by Obama by the next day I'd find out I was a Satan worshipping Nazi whose hobbies included drowning puppies.  Do you think if the person who made that Czar list couldn't really find anything wrong with one of the appointees, they'd have an entry saying "Actually, this one's fine"?  No, it'd be "Right, can we find?  Hmm, voted for a funding grant to a primarily black school?  Didn't say anything against the assault rifle ban? Favourite food - Chinese? ANTI-WHITE RACIST AND BLACK NATIONALIST, ANTI-GUN RADICAL AND SUSPECTED COMMUNIST!"
> 
> ...



You've not given any evidence whatsoever, just lies, rumours, hearsay and scurrility.

The simple fact you keep trying to avoid by using google to do your arguing for you and trying to move the argument to paranoid anti-Obama conspiracy theories is that Egypt is NOT going to go back to how it was.  Simple as that.  You can either keep living in denial and hoping you can keep propping up Mubarak (And it's going to take a Tiananmen Square style event to even keep him in power till the end of the week) so that when he finally falls there is no political opponents to take his place, and only religious ones like the Muslim Brotherhood, or you can stop playing into their hands, stop supporting an evil dictatorship and accept he has to go.

Obama has not being trying to get rid of Mubarak, he has been absolutely complicit in Mubarak's rule since he got into power.  He runs a centre right party and he's too bothered about pandering to the far right to do anything as noble as that.  It took him about a week after the bloodshed started to say pretty much ANYTHING constructive about it.  Obama didn't start this problem, the 'problem' started 30 years ago and it's only now coming to its inevitable conclusion - because of events in Egypt, not in America. 

If you think Egypt is 'ready' for democracy or not (which is a laugh in itself, Egypt isn't one of these Johnny come lately countries like the US) is a complete irrelevance.  Reform is coming to Egypt, and the idea that somehow they are not deserving of democracy and the choice is simply between autocratic tyranny and theocracy is either ignorant or disingenuous.  If the west cared about Islamic theocracies, they wouldn't be propping up the rulers of Saudi Arabia with huge oil and defence deals, when the country is run by Islamist nut-cases, where women can't drive, where you can be put to death for 'sorcery' and whipped for 'blasphemy'.  It's fear-mongering because some neo-cons don't like the idea of another country getting Western values and freedoms if it means they lose a vice-like grip on them.  We've spent decades talking about the *universality* of those values and ideals.


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## Mid123 (Feb 8, 2011)

I just wanna thank Blue Star for bringing a bit of common sense to this thread.


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## BlueStar (Feb 8, 2011)

Looks like there's still no sign of the people's will being broken, the biggest show of support for the protests yet and Egyptians from all walks of life standing firm  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12394941


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians have poured into Cairo's Tahrir Square for the latest protest calling for Hosni Mubarak's government to step down.
> 
> Correspondents say it is the biggest demonstration since the protests began on 25 January.
> 
> ...



Meanwhile, wikileaks has released cables showing that Vice-President Omar Suleiman is Israel's favoured choice for the next leader.  Think it's fair to say he'll struggle to take control of the country
http://www.wikileaks.ch/cable/2008/08/08TELAVIV1984.html


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## steve-p (Feb 8, 2011)

the egytian people are brave peace-loving fools.

they should have learned from the iranian revolution that when you decide it's time, you have to have the enemy hung from streetlamps beaten & burned the same day!!!

all that's happened by standing and shouting is they have given the enemy time.
time to import israeli death squads,
time to off-shore as much wealth as possible,
time for many "behind the scenes" people to escape - maybe to return in the future.
and most importantly, time for the u.s. to prepare something.
right now a naval groupe (1 nuclear carrier + 3 support ships) are on route to egypt - i dont think they have friendly intentions.

this is gonna get very bad soon - i'm sure of it.


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## Sterling (Feb 8, 2011)

steve-p said:
			
		

> the egytian people are brave peace-loving fools.
> 
> they should have learned from the iranian revolution that when you decide it's time, you have to have the enemy hung from streetlamps beaten & burned the same day!!!
> 
> ...


Where is your source for this?


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## steve-p (Feb 9, 2011)

which bit?
the "exodus" of egyptian elite is no secret, many went to the u.k.

re:the death squads,
i posted a link earlier to an israeli military person grabbed by the people in egypt.

btw, it now looks like that bastard suleiman was behind the church bombings!
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/02/07/136723.html
http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/crime-a-a...rch-attack.html

here's your battle group:
http://www.businessinsider.com/senior-us-m...2#ixzz1DHoWjcCa
and this may be related - whatever this is about is big!
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/399/615/All...Washington.html


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## BlueStar (Feb 9, 2011)

Looks like Glenn Beck's position on this whole deal may be too zany even for Fox.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/08/gl...ut-of-the-coop/


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## steve-p (Feb 9, 2011)

look at this scum, he needs to be taken out!
http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011...assacre-of.html


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## Blood Fetish (Feb 9, 2011)

steve-p said:
			
		

> look at this scum, he needs to be taken out!
> http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2011...assacre-of.html


LOL "taken out"?

He is just a troll, and not a very good one at that. Do you want everyone you disagree with to be murdered?


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## steve-p (Feb 10, 2011)

he's not a troll,
he's an adviser to a *very* powerfull lobby group that virtually owns the british government!


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## BlueStar (Feb 10, 2011)

Egypt's President Mubarak 'To Step Down' 
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201102115927730

Army commander tells cheering protestors Mubarak will go, that the army is ready to protect the "legitimate demands of the people" and says "everything you want will be realised" as members of the military are hugged and kissed in the streets.  So much for the army choosing to side with Mubarak.  Secretary general of Mubarak's own party says the right action is for Mubarak to step aside and for an election open to all parties, regardless of their politics.  Mubarak is going to make a statement to Egypt this evening. Bye bye, Hosni!
















Let's hope he's not got another trick up his sleeve






EDIT:  Seems like the army may have stepped in to prevent Mubarak trying to hand power to his vice president.  Seeing as they've got the presidential palace surrounded by tanks, it's fair to say the army are holding the cards at the moment.


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## dryo (Feb 10, 2011)

LOl the second one looks pimpin


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## steve-p (Feb 10, 2011)

or he's buying time for the u.s. navy to make the distance,
time will tell.
i still say mubarak & suelimen should have been killed on day1

the egyptian people are up against insrael & america, mubarak was just there man, to be replaced by there next man - just like iraq.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 11, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3445940:date=Feb 8 2011, 01:06 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 8 2011, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3445940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, by refusing to believe anonymous, politically motivated bloggers with no evidence whatsoever I support child abuse?  Do you even listen to yourself?  Did you believe everything anyone ever said about Bush and his cronies?  That list you link to has been forwarded for the last 3 years and I've still not seen any evidence at all to say Jeffrey Crowley supports NAMBLA - what 'actions' of his would you like me to condemn, specifically, please?  Top tip, before you try, googling "Jeff Crowley supports NAMBLA" the top result will be this very thread.   Aside from that list I can't even find an <i>accusation</i> that he supports NAMBLA, nevermind any evidence to support it.  So how come you believed it, based on just that one, unsubstantiated line?  I've not seen anything to suggest it's any more than a pulled-out-the-ass smear due to the fact he's connected with Obama.  I'm pretty sure if I was appointed to something by Obama by the next day I'd find out I was a Satan worshipping Nazi whose hobbies included drowning puppies.  Do you think if the person who made that Czar list couldn't really find anything wrong with one of the appointees, they'd have an entry saying "Actually, this one's fine"?  No, it'd be "Right, can we find?  Hmm, voted for a funding grant to a primarily black school?  Didn't say anything against the assault rifle ban? Favourite food - Chinese? ANTI-WHITE RACIST AND BLACK NATIONALIST, ANTI-GUN RADICAL AND SUSPECTED COMMUNIST!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

alright, ALRIGHT my source was wrong, I am only one man! I do not have the resources to check every single line, word for word. <a href="http://www.regrettheerror.com/" target="_blank">No one</a> is perfect, but that doesn't mean that one should never denounce such actions! No, I don't believe every thing I am told, It's not "republican good, democrat bad" for me!! I preach the mantra of republicrats and demicans, the two headed snake with one body!

Bush financed foreign banks to come over and <a href="http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/12/banking-giants-leaned-heavily-on-fed-in-crisis.html" target="_blank">buy</a> businesses in the united states. He ripped the door <a href="http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40417" target="_blank">off of its hinges</a> when it comes to illegal immigration! He pushed the <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11494815/ns/us_news-security/" target="_blank">dubai ports deal</a> And I objected to it, the people of <a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3399491,00.html" target="_blank">dubai</a> are not our friends, remember where the time square bomber was <a href="http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-04/us/new.york.car.bomb_1_bombing-attempt-law-enforcement-investigators?_s=PM:US" target="_blank">going back to</a>?

should I go on? how about his patriot act? the fact that the government <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-17-librarian-edit_x.htm" target="_blank">demands</a> the names of people who check out books on OBL? or that bush pushed ahead for truck drivers from mexico to participate in his <a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41065" target="_blank">pilot tests</a> despite opposition from congress? Is this enough to convince you that I am not an individual who screams "BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH , BACK BUSH BACK BUSH"!? I certainly hope so. At least he could dodge a shoe.



Spoiler: new, corrected list of czars



 <a href="http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/29391/" target="_blank">link!</a>




<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course not, it's a well known tactic.  It means that as soon as someone does something bad, they're not "real" Republicans, the same way Fox puts a "D" in front of the names of disgraced politicians, even if they're Republicans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes, yes it's all true I lie about everything. /sarcasm! should I list some of his more liberal voting records?

<p align=" " class="none">
Voted YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research.
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman.
Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent.
Voted YES on keeping moratorium on drilling for oil offshore.
Voted YES on prohibiting oil drilling & development in ANWR.
Voted YES on starting implementation of Kyoto Protocol.
Supports immediate reductions in greenhouse gases
Voted NO on keeping Cuba travel ban until political prisoners released
</p>

I could go on, but I am going to stop. I think you get the picture.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Link, link, link, link, link, link, link after irrelevant link. I'm not having this 'debate' if this is all you're going to do, I already know what's on wing-nut blogs thank you very much.  Bernie Ward for fucks sake, it's not even anything remotely connected to the topic!  It's just "hurr-durr left wingers are child abusers."  I could sit here and copy and paste left-wing sites back at you, about what someone who once worked with a Republican might have done in 1984 but what's the point in arguing by proxy?  I could go google a load of similar bedroom blogs on the other side of the political spectrum about what folk like Palin, O'Donnell, Murdoch, Rove and Cheney, and anyone even remotely conencted to them have been accused of, everything from things proved in court to plausible rumours to stuff like "Bush did 9/11", you wouldn't read any of them, you can come back with a site saying Obama was born in Kenya and he's secretly planning North American Monetary Union and it would get us where, exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I didn't say that at all, I said that instead of denouncing it, he chose power and influence instead of morality and character... probably because he doesn't have any.

have a watch of this video, an interview on the B cast.<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->http://i49.video2.blip.tv/7000004915716/Breitbarttv-TheBCastInterviewWasObamaACommittedMarxistInCollege308.m4v<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

what  about Obama's relations to <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&pagewanted=1" target="_blank">bill Ayers</a>?

[youtube]0xBlTdsnOh8[/youtube]

it would seem that obama's connections with ayers go <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-ayers-and-the-annenberg-challenge-cover-up/" target="_blank">far beyond</a> that of some guy in the neighborhood. Bill <a href="http://backyardconservative.blogspot.com/2009/10/bill-ayers-no-dream.html" target="_blank">blurted out</a> to a conservative blogger that he had wrote obamas "dreams". previously it was <a href="http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/did_bill_ayers_write_1.htm" target="_blank">speculated</a> that he had been a ghost writer for the book!


How about that? is that enough for you? I had more, but you don't seem to care to  read it because it's "right wing hate machine".

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You've not given any evidence whatsoever, just lies, rumours, hearsay and scurrility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Have a read of those articles I posted above.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The simple fact you keep trying to avoid by using google to do your arguing for you and trying to move the argument to paranoid anti-Obama conspiracy theories is that Egypt is NOT going to go back to how it was.  Simple as that.  You can either keep living in denial and hoping you can keep propping up Mubarak (And it's going to take a Tiananmen Square style event to even keep him in power till the end of the week) so that when he finally falls there is no political opponents to take his place, and only religious ones like the Muslim Brotherhood, or you can stop playing into their hands, stop supporting an evil dictatorship and accept he has to go.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, yes, I have been googleing for the last few days, but not what you think I have been googeling, want to know what I was looking for? I will tell you what I was looking for, the videos of Saddam Hussein's cronies violent torture of innocent people. I had a look at the first two videos after I found them, and I must say comparings of the Brutal egyptians police smacking peoples heads repeatedly, hanging them by there knees and arms "non violently"... oh, why not just link a video, you will see what I mean.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dsn4tUKcEU" target="_blank">Link</a>

I realize there is corruption, and that people need to held accounted for there actions but!

<u><b>THIS IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT SADDAM HUSSEIN DID!</b></u>

dont believe me? send me a pm, I will send you a link to the videos!  




Yes, I just "google" and everything magically comes up. I would be interested to see some of your sources, it's not like you have been very liberal with them. And the ones you do link to, are hit pieces with no sources, just pure opinion! 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obama has not being trying to get rid of Mubarak, he has been absolutely complicit in Mubarak's rule since he got into power.  He runs a centre right party and he's too bothered about pandering to the far right to do anything as noble as that.  It took him about a week after the bloodshed started to say pretty much ANYTHING constructive about it.  Obama didn't start this problem, the 'problem' started 30 years ago and it's only now coming to its inevitable conclusion - because of events in Egypt, not in America.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Look! Wikileaks doesn't lie, again, have a look at the <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289698/Egypt-protests-secret-US-document-discloses-support-for-protesters.html" target="_blank">cable</a>!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you think Egypt is 'ready' for democracy or not (which is a laugh in itself, Egypt isn't one of these Johnny come lately countries like the US) is a complete irrelevance.  Reform is coming to Egypt, and the idea that somehow they are not deserving of democracy and the choice is simply between autocratic tyranny and theocracy is either ignorant or disingenuous.  If the west cared about Islamic theocracies, they wouldn't be propping up the rulers of Saudi Arabia with huge oil and defence deals, when the country is run by Islamist nut-cases, where women can't drive, where you can be put to death for 'sorcery' and whipped for 'blasphemy'.  It's fear-mongering because some neo-cons don't like the idea of another country getting Western values and freedoms if it means they lose a vice-like grip on them.  We've spent decades talking about the <b>universality</b> of those values and ideals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Isn't it funny how a johnny come lately country like the USA did in 300 years what Europe hasn't been able to do in over 500 years? the us starting from scratch, we went from pure farmland to the industrial capitol of the world, we where the first to land on the moon, man! If we where able to do that, just imagine what europe.... wait, nevermind. there still stuck on paying there crack addict neighbors house payments. Yes, reform. what happens when your "reform" brings to power a radical? what happens when that radical moves on the nuclear material? what happens when that nuclear information and material is discussed with other radicalized regimes in the immediate area? Did you know that a vast majority of oil used by the united states is not from the middle east, but from canada and mexico? those are the <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html" target="_blank">top two</a>. SA was @ No. 3 and it barely went over 1,100. at it's peak, it was 1,119! 

how can you spread the "universality" of those ideas when the media is all state owned, hmm?


BTW, do you think that Howard Stern is insane to?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rTza8rqcw" target="_blank">Link</a>


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 11, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3451764:date=Feb 11 2011, 06:46 AM:name=The Living Shadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Living Shadow @ Feb 11 2011, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3451764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->alright, ALRIGHT my source was wrong, I am only one man! I do not have the resources to check every single line, word for word. <a href="http://www.regrettheerror.com/" target="_blank">No one</a> is perfect, but that doesn't mean that one should never denounce such actions!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I tend not to denounce people's actions unless they've actually made them, funny that.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bush financed foreign banks to come over and <a href="http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/12/banking-giants-leaned-heavily-on-fed-in-crisis.html" target="_blank">buy</a> businesses in the united states. He ripped the door <a href="http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40417" target="_blank">off of its hinges</a> when it comes to illegal immigration! He pushed the <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11494815/ns/us_news-security/" target="_blank">dubai ports deal</a> And I objected to it, the people of <a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3399491,00.html" target="_blank">dubai</a> are not our friends, remember where the time square bomber was <a href="http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-04/us/new.york.car.bomb_1_bombing-attempt-law-enforcement-investigators?_s=PM:US" target="_blank">going back to</a>?

should I go on? how about his patriot act? the fact that the government <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-17-librarian-edit_x.htm" target="_blank">demands</a> the names of people who check out books on OBL? or that bush pushed ahead for truck drivers from mexico to participate in his <a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41065" target="_blank">pilot tests</a> despite opposition from congress? Is this enough to convince you that I am not an individual who screams "BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH , BACK BUSH BACK BUSH"!? I certainly hope so. At least he could dodge a shoe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've seen a lot of this since Obama took over from the right, how all politicians are bad - I saw very little of it when Bush was in power and people on the left were being demonised as traitors for questioning things like the patriot act.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->



Spoiler: new, corrected list of czars



 <a href="http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/29391/" target="_blank">link!</a>


<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Glenn Beck?  Come on, you're better than that.  But too be fair, there's nothing in that list that makes you say anything but "so what".


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes, yes it's all true I lie about everything. /sarcasm! should I list some of his more liberal voting records?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If you like, I could reply with some of their anti-gay rights votes if you like, again, it wouldn't get us anywhere.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't say that at all, I said that instead of denouncing it, he chose power and influence instead of morality and character... probably because he doesn't have any.

have a watch of this video, an interview on the B cast.<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->http://i49.video2.blip.tv/7000004915716/Breitbarttv-TheBCastInterviewWasObamaACommittedMarxistInCollege308.m4v<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

what  about Obama's relations to <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&pagewanted=1" target="_blank">bill Ayers</a>?

[youtube]0xBlTdsnOh8[/youtube]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've seen more wingnut obamaisapinkomarxistsocialistcommie videos than I've had hot dinners thanks, they're all full of shit.  Again, I can come back with similar videos about Palin, Beck, Murdoch, you wouldn't believe any of them.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it would seem that obama's connections with ayers go <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-ayers-and-the-annenberg-challenge-cover-up/" target="_blank">far beyond</a> that of some guy in the neighborhood. Bill <a href="http://backyardconservative.blogspot.com/2009/10/bill-ayers-no-dream.html" target="_blank">blurted out</a> to a conservative blogger that he had wrote obamas "dreams". previously it was <a href="http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/did_bill_ayers_write_1.htm" target="_blank">speculated</a> that he had been a ghost writer for the book!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Again, I know all the paranoid conspiracy theories about Obama the TERRIST!!!111.  A lot of things have been "speculated", come back when you have evidence rather than speculation.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about that? is that enough for you? I had more, but you don't seem to care to  read it because it's "right wing hate machine".

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You've not given any evidence whatsoever, just lies, rumours, hearsay and scurrility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Have a read of those articles I posted above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Looked at them all, all full of shit, empty on evidence.  You have a serious problem with .  This means how reliable you think a source is is dependant on how much it enforces your pre-conceived ideas that Obama is the devil.  That's why you'll accept an anonymous, throwaway line of "His HIV czar supports NAMBLA" with no evidence whatsoever and accuse anyone who doesn't jump on the "OMG WHAT A TERRIBLE MAN" lynchmob of being a supprter of chil abuse.  How about reading news sites instead of the blogs of basement dwelling Obama bashers?


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, yes, I have been googleing for the last few days, but not what you think I have been googeling, want to know what I was looking for? I will tell you what I was looking for, the videos of Saddam Hussein's cronies violent torture of innocent people. I had a look at the first two videos after I found them, and I must say comparings of the Brutal egyptians police smacking peoples heads repeatedly, hanging them by there knees and arms "non violently"... oh, why not just link a video, you will see what I mean.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dsn4tUKcEU" target="_blank">Link</a>

I realize there is corruption, and that people need to held accounted for there actions but!

<u><b>THIS IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT SADDAM HUSSEIN DID!</b></u><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Why do you keep bringing up irrelevances?  What Obama's doing isn't as bad as what Pol Pot did, does that mean he can declare emergency rule and make himself leader for the next 30 years, outlawing the Republican Party in the process?  Saddam is another example of a US backed dictator who oppressed his people, how come it was OK to kick him out but not Mubarak?  Oh, that's right, he didn't toe the line from the White House later in his rein.



<hr><b><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Posts merged<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, I just "google" and everything magically comes up. I would be interested to see some of your sources, it's not like you have been very liberal with them. And the ones you do link to, are hit pieces with no sources, just pure opinion!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The ones you link to are just attack sites by anonymous, bitter conservatives.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look! Wikileaks doesn't lie, again, have a look at the <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8289698/Egypt-protests-secret-US-document-discloses-support-for-protesters.html" target="_blank">cable</a>!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's fair to say that the propping up of Mubarak has been a problem for Washington for quite a while now, but they certainly weren't ready for this kind of hugely supported demand for immediate change.  That came from the people of Egypt.  Obama isn't responsible for absolutely everything you don't like, you know.  I bet you blame him for leaving the cap off your toothpaste and tangling your headphones as well.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it funny how a johnny come lately country like the USA did in 300 years what Europe hasn't been able to do in over 500 years? the us starting from scratch, we went from pure farmland to the industrial capitol of the world, we where the first to land on the moon, man! If we where able to do that, just imagine what europe.... wait, nevermind. there still stuck on paying there crack addict neighbors house payments.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What the fuck are you on about?  For a start, the people who went over and founded America were, oh, that's right Europeans.  Romans, Egyptians, the British Empire, all kinds of countries were doing all kinds of amazing shit hundreds of years before the USA was even a dot on the horizon.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, reform. what happens when your "reform" brings to power a radical?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

More radical than a crazed dictator?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what happens when that radical moves on the nuclear material? what happens when that nuclear information and material is discussed with other radicalized regimes in the immediate area? Did you know that a vast majority of oil used by the united states is not from the middle east, but from canada and mexico? those are the <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html" target="_blank">top two</a>. SA was @ No. 3 and it barely went over 1,100. at it's peak, it was 1,119! 

how can you spread the "universality" of those ideas when the media is all state owned, hmm?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The media is currently state owned in Egypt, but that's now changing.  A good thing, no?  Talking about how if Egypt gets democracy they'll start nuking people makes you sound absolutely insane, you've got no basis for opposing liberty for Egypt other than your own paranoid fears.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BTW, do you think that Howard Stern is insane to?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rTza8rqcw" target="_blank">Link</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Howard Stern is an entertainer and a troll, not a political expert.  I know when you watch channels like Fox the line gets blurred.

Any rate, your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant.  When a population gets tired of their dictatorship, you're not going to make them act like good little sheep and go home by pounding on your ketboard about how much you really, really, hate your president and how he's a marxist, a communist (which is a laugh, there are no left-wing political parties in the US, you've admitted you'reself they're identical on almost all issues).  They don't care if Obama knew someone in school who was a bit of a nutcase, they care about the fact they're having the internet shut down, the press restricted, they're being beaten and murdered by government forces


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 11, 2011)

Here's a thread where you can talk about the goings on in Egypt, rather than throwing as much mud at Obama on any random topic you can find, without checking your sources,  and hoping some of it sticks.  Try actually sticking to the topic without going off on OMGBILLAYERSJEREMIAHWRIGHTMARXISMMINDCONTROLAGGRRRGRGR

http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=278...p;#entry3451879

Do you remember during the Bush years that whenever he did anything some people would do nothing but link to sites offering what they claimed were pages and pages and video after video of proof about how Bush stole the election, how he arranged for Bin Laden's allies to be flown out the country after 9/11, how he was a coke addict in high school, how Barbara Bush deliberately murdered her boyfriend?  Does that not appear familiar when you get into your comfort zone of "But Bill Ayers!  But communism!  But somone he appointed might have once said something nice about something someone did when that person did something nasty in a totally unrelated event decades later!  But a radio commentator on the same side of the political spectrum as the president had child porn!"

Meant to put this in my previous post, which I can't edit now thanks to board restrictions, but the obama-ayres connection is simply not as exciting as you've been led to believe http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ayers.asp.  It's just more guilt by association.  Judge a man on what he actually _does_.

By the way, is your implication that obama planned mubarak's fall and your insistence that, as a result, egypt will become a theocracy (which I'm perfectly happy to remind you of once we  see the shape of the new egypt) mean you believe obama wants an egypt run by anti-west islamists? Why?

One final thought - was the US ready to elect their own representatives when they got that right?  Bearing in mind things like women not being allowed to vote, and the constitution specifying that slaves were worth only three-fifths of a person?  Maybe the British should have kept control for the purposes of "stability" until you guys were ready for it.  You know, just in case confederates or or anyone like that ended up seizing control.


----------



## TLSS_N (Feb 12, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3451901:date=Feb 11 2011, 04:53 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 11 2011, 04:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3451901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I tend not to denounce people's actions unless they've actually made them, funny that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh my god, I am going to skip this one, like you have done to me when it was convenient for you but I freely let it go!

*Shock* I screwed up once! I still don't see anyone denouncing climate-gate.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen a lot of this since Obama took over from the right, how all politicians are bad - I saw very little of it when Bush was in power and people on the left were being demonised as traitors for questioning things like the patriot act.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Like I could vote at what, 10? If George Bush was anything other that the check pants republican he was, maybe we would have had some real done for a change. thanks to him, the border stayed open, drug smugglers where able to smuggle sleeper cells into the country, and setup base so that when the signal was given, they could act. It's a tough call, don't get me wrong. If israel attacks iran, BOOM, there goes the cells, if the united states attacks iran, there goes israel. why can't they arrest the sleeper cells? Because of liberal groups such as the ACLU,CAIR and the like. I can source all of that, but you don't give a crap, so long as Iman Anjem Choudary and other like minded individuals can preach there radical doctrine of hate and oppression, it's all cool with you, right?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glenn Beck?  Come on, you're better than that.  But too be fair, there's nothing in that list that makes you say anything but "so what".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I beg to differ; but no matter what I say, now matter how much I source why I seem to have that opinion. I provide reasons for my theory, you denounce it without any proof, just pure opinion. no sources, just outright lies.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you like, I could reply with some of their anti-gay rights votes if you like, again, it wouldn't get us anywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

what, the right for gay individuals to get married? to start a family? please elaborate.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, I know all the paranoid conspiracy theories about Obama the TERRIST!!!111.  A lot of things have been "speculated", come back when you have evidence rather than speculation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I do have "evidence" did you even watch that first video? I doubt it. If you had, you would have seen the photo's of obama back in the day, his fellow student turned NYT blogger discuss his own radicalism and his conversations on marxism with B/O. Not to mention that obama "<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully, The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

ring a bell? 

let me go through this one more time, he was radicalized at the at of ten by a known communist, by his own admission he "sought out" Marxists in college, had long conversations about marxism with fellow marxists while he was still in school. Claimed on camera that the people of the united states "cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." Claimed that we need to "spread" the "wealth" around. absolutely refuses to release any records from his college years, and yet "I am crazy" for making the basic distinction that if it walks like a marxist, if it talks like a marxist, it must be a marxist. can you provide some form of proof that he is, in fact not a marxist? Please, I am begging you, and ... while your at it, mind sending Neil Abercrombie the long form birth certificate? He seems to be having trouble finding it.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looked at them all, all full of shit, empty on evidence.  You have a serious problem with .  This means how reliable you think a source is is dependant on how much it enforces your pre-conceived ideas that Obama is the devil.  That's why you'll accept an anonymous, throwaway line of "His HIV czar supports NAMBLA" with no evidence whatsoever and accuse anyone who doesn't jump on the "OMG WHAT A TERRIBLE MAN" lynchmob of being a supprter of chil abuse.  How about reading news sites instead of the blogs of basement dwelling Obama bashers?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


see my first response. 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you keep bringing up irrelevances?  What Obama's doing isn't as bad as what Pol Pot did, does that mean he can declare emergency rule and make himself leader for the next 30 years, outlawing the Republican Party in the process?  Saddam is another example of a US backed dictator who oppressed his people, how come it was OK to kick him out but not Mubarak?  Oh, that's right, he didn't toe the line from the White House later in his rein.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Why do I? hmm, didn't you bring up Iraq first? I was making a point that there where allot worse situations in the region. they should thank allah that they didn't have to live with what the people of iraq went through. do you want the link that I promised or not? I watched the last two videos today, and I have found that the last video is the least graphic. Didn't polpot study marxist theory in france? Besides that, are you making the claim that obama could possibly be, by some extension a marxist? I mean, your the one who made the comparison, not me. The subconscious speaks without bias, it doesn't have a political ideal. 

you seem to forget that the united states has had a democratic stronghold


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The ones you link to are just attack sites by anonymous, bitter conservatives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

so, national news papers, online only political news organizations, who have access to the press secretary on white hose grounds are "anonymous" eh? I realize that a few of the smaller sites can be considered just that by some. but the others sure aren't.


<hr><b><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Posts merged<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's fair to say that the propping up of Mubarak has been a problem for Washington for quite a while now, but they certainly weren't ready for this kind of hugely supported demand for immediate change.  That came from the people of Egypt.  Obama isn't responsible for absolutely everything you don't like, you know.  I bet you blame him for leaving the cap off your toothpaste and tangling your headphones as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

OH GAWD, YOUZ KNOWZ MEH SEKRETZ! well, I guess the cats out of the bag on this one. what ever shall I do? so, it's just a weird co-incidence that this guy came over here? and that he met with a bunch of people and discussed such things as revolutions? ///right!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What the fuck are you on about?  For a start, the people who went over and founded America were, oh, that's right Europeans.  Romans, Egyptians, the British Empire, all kinds of countries were doing all kinds of amazing shit hundreds of years before the USA was even a dot on the horizon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

hey, your the one who insulted my nation, not me. what I am supposed to do, sit back and take it? I would love to see that space ship from the <strike>1500's</strike>,<strike>1600's</strike>,<strike>1700's</strike>,<strike>1800</strike>,<strike>1900's</strike>,<strike>2000-2011</strike> WAIT... there still paying there crack head neighbors mortgage, come back when you've done something useful.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More radical than a crazed dictator?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I would like to see video of such atrocities as those that occurred in iraq, happen to have any lying around?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The media is currently state owned in Egypt, but that's now changing.  A good thing, no?  Talking about how if Egypt gets democracy they'll start nuking people makes you sound absolutely insane, you've got no basis for opposing liberty for Egypt other than your own paranoid fears.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

that's yet to be determined, the "elections" have yet to happen. I never said that they would start nuking people, I said they would share secrets, research and materials.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Howard Stern is an entertainer and a troll, not a political expert.  I know when you watch channels like Fox the line gets blurred.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes, the same fox news channel who promoted single payer health care, backed a radical anti-israel extremeist and still to this day, employs a left wing cook in "conservative" clothing by the name of bill o'reilly. that same fix new network? thanks... I will pass.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any rate, your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant.  When a population gets tired of their dictatorship, you're not going to make them act like good little sheep and go home by pounding on your ketboard about how much you really, really, hate your president and how he's a marxist, a communist (which is a laugh, there are no left-wing political parties in the US, you've admitted you'reself they're identical on almost all issues).  They don't care if Obama knew someone in school who was a bit of a nutcase, they care about the fact they're having the internet shut down, the press restricted, they're being beaten and murdered by government forces<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

everyones opinion matter's ever yours, you think I am wrong, I think your wrong, If I wish to put in my 2 <strike>euro's</strike> cents, that's my decision. No one expected that hamas would win the elections that they did, but they had a landslide victory, who's to say the same thing won't happen in this situation? All that I said was that this was a push to have this done by obama. you can believe what ever you want, but the facts are quite clear in my honest opinion, and obama said himself that he would like to see the brotherhood take power. Even Ahmadinejad sees what is going to happen.

<!--quoteo(post=3451906:date=Feb 11 2011, 04:59 AM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 11 2011, 04:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3451906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's a thread where you can talk about the goings on in Egypt, rather than throwing as much mud at Obama on any random topic you can find, without checking your sources,  and hoping some of it sticks.  Try actually sticking to the topic without going off on OMGBILLAYERSJEREMIAHWRIGHTMARXISMMINDCONTROLAGGRRRGRGR<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

*skips* see above, first response.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://gbatemp.net/t278732-mubarak-steps-down-as-president?view=findpost&p=3452368" target="_blank">I see what you did there.</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not about to go and hijack a thread like you attempted to do, and have done with this one.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you remember during the Bush years that whenever he did anything some people would do nothing but link to sites offering what they claimed were pages and pages and video after video of proof about how Bush stole the election, how he arranged for Bin Laden's allies to be flown out the country after 9/11, how he was a coke addict in high school, how Barbara Bush deliberately murdered her boyfriend?  Does that not appear familiar when you get into your comfort zone of "But Bill Ayers!  But communism!  But somone he appointed might have once said something nice about something someone did when that person did something nasty in a totally unrelated event decades later!  But a radio commentator on the same side of the political spectrum as the president had child porn!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nice try, pass!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meant to put this in my previous post, which I can't edit now thanks to board restrictions, but the obama-ayres connection is simply not as exciting as you've been led to believe <a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ayers.asp" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ayers.asp" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ayers.asp" target="_blank">http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ayers.asp</a></a></a>.  It's just more guilt by association.  Judge a man on what he actually <i>does</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

that's why he launched his political career in Ayers living room... ///right.

so, it's ok to let a child die after a botched abortion, and the child dies? What about reparations for something that happened over a hundred years ago? Should we really be playing politics with peoples lives? Why not denounce the black panthers endorsement? knowingly bankrupting companies that don't agree with you on "environmental" grounds?
stabbing israel in the back, WINNER! shall I go on? apologizing to every crook he can find, or hugging and kissing dictators?

what's with the blackberry, who does he talk to that the united states need not know about?


<hr><b><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Posts merged<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, is your implication that obama planned mubarak's fall and your insistence that, as a result, egypt will become a theocracy (which I'm perfectly happy to remind you of once we  see the shape of the new egypt) mean you believe obama wants an egypt run by anti-west islamists? Why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

just keep an eye on Yussuf al-Qaradawi, watch him closely.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One final thought - was the US ready to elect their own representatives when they got that right?  Bearing in mind things like women not being allowed to vote, and the constitution specifying that slaves were worth only three-fifths of a person?  Maybe the British should have kept control for the purposes of "stability" until you guys were ready for it.  You know, just in case confederates or or anyone like that ended up seizing control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

are there not 15th century throwbacks in the middle east who do much,much worse things? It was a compromise made to get the states to fight for independence. It was still just as tough of a pill to swallow then as it is for me to swallow now with mubarak. it's not that I enjoy my position, It could and might be a lot worse than it already is. Remember, I called it, and so have others.

--Forgive my absence for the next few days, I have some personal things to attend to, and I will not be able to logon to reply until at least monday night.


----------



## Chaosruler (Feb 12, 2011)

Noooooooooooooooooot scary
Egypt got more peeps then cash to feed `em, even they are not stupid enough to use the food $ to draw a war, because even if they win, they lose


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 12, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> I still don't see anyone denouncing climate-gate.
> 
> 
> Climate-g... What?  Seriously, what the ever loving fuck are you on about?  What does climategate have to do with fucking anything at all?  And I've seen lots of people denouncing climate-gate, left, right, up, down, British, American.  But I honestly give up, I'm not going to sit here and respond to epic post after epic post having to defend anything and everything anyone to the left of Ghengis Kahn has ever done or ever been accused of doing, as if it's in anyway relevant to the goings on in Egypt. Believe what you want to believe, Obama is a lizard person who wants to destroy America and turn you into the USSR, better stock up on assault rifles before it's too late.
> ...



Honestly, I don't even...


----------



## mcp2 (Feb 12, 2011)

The Living Shadow, we use Pound Sterling not Euro. kthxbai.


----------



## DSGamer64 (Feb 13, 2011)

dryo said:
			
		

> OK guy HERE'S THE THING,Egypt doesn't give a crapper about Israel,what happens is that Israel doesn't want Egypt to be freed because of "freedom of religion", they think judaism will not prevail befor muslims and muslim religion will cover all of the middle east....and that's a wrong very wrong asumption,the bad thing is...i mean,the bad things are...three things,  EXTREMISTS,OIL andMUBARAK they all link each other all the way from 1990,the SHA of iran ,U.S as you may noticed DOESNT want egypt to let mubarak go,why? because of the OIL!,we know that when we reach the final 5 years of petrolleum something will happen either right, or wrong. What it's logiclly to happen is, that EGYPT extremist will not go trough the extreemes,and will not fight,the U.N will intervene in 1 month and mubarak will be relieved,but democracy will not continue in egypt,what we need is a global legislation over alternative fuels PRONTO,that's the only thing that'll prevent the middle east to go to war...again.



This is so wrong it's not even funny. For one, it was Mubarak who kept Israel and Egypt at peace for so many years, though it was a pretty hard thing to do and at times a pretty shaky peace agreement. Secondly, if you are in Israel's shoes, do you really want the plague of hatred filth that is the Islamic extremist movement spreading even further through the Middle East? Do you want these insane clerics preaching even more hatred towards Israel as well as the western world? You have Palestine, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq and the United Arab Emirates all chalk full of Muslim people, and a lot of Muslim people hate Israel. Do you have any clue what the consequences of a war between Israel and Egypt would bring with them? Think America is going to sit idly by as countries wage a war against Israel and in turn get half the world involved in support of Israel which in turn could destroy massive amounts of oil production facilities and inflate prices even further. 

If the Muslim Brotherhood gets elected into power through nothing less then rigged voting which will no doubt be an issue, things are going to go to hell in a bucket real fast. The last thing the Middle East needs is more psychotic Muslims running countries and starting more shit with Israel, and that's something Israel doesn't need with Hamas constantly bombing their country and Iran basically threatening them as well.


----------



## Sterling (Feb 13, 2011)

mcp2 said:
			
		

> The Living Shadow, we use Pound Sterling not Euro. kthxbai.


I'm a 300lb Sterling, and I use a dollar. The UK is part of Europe whether or not you use the Euro.


----------



## mcp2 (Feb 13, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> mcp2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But does that have anything to do with currency? No.


----------



## TLSS_N (Feb 14, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Climate-g... What?  Seriously, what the ever loving fuck are you on about?  What does climategate have to do with fucking anything at all?  And I've seen lots of people denouncing climate-gate, left, right, up, down, British, American.  But I honestly give up, I'm not going to sit here and respond to epic post after epic post having to defend anything and everything anyone to the left of Ghengis Kahn has ever done or ever been accused of doing, as if it's in anyway relevant to the goings on in Egypt. Believe what you want to believe, Obama is a lizard person who wants to destroy America and turn you into the USSR, better stock up on assault rifles before it's too late.
> 
> I was drawing a comparison, what's wrong with that? It was part sarcasm, part truth. Of course there are people who have denounced it, but the big players sure haven't.
> 
> ...




I was speaking of the currency with the majority of power in your region.

@BlueStar, one question before we "go".

Rupert Murdoch or George Soros?


----------



## TheViolentOne (Feb 14, 2011)

sorry but I dont see israel nor anyother as muslim.if there are any other muslims dont take me siriously.
Im just saying that my little mindless brain doen't understands the fact a muslim can "kill in the name of God.I dont get the fact  that muslims are muslim when they wear weird clothes. I dont get the fact that "those muslims" are showing their cultures as Kur'an ...and this really pisses me off.


----------



## steve-p (Feb 15, 2011)

islam is a religion, "they" dress like that because it's the culture of the country - christans and muslims often look the same - but each country is different.

as for killing for god,
catholic's ran up a pretty good bodycount during the enquisition,
an christians had the crusades,
and then there are all the smaller battles between religious groups in india and china.
and dont even get me started on fucking Zionists and the number of people they have killed!


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 15, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> I was drawing a comparison, what's wrong with that? It was part sarcasm, part truth. Of course there are people who have denounced it, but the big players sure haven't.
> 
> Which 'big players'?  Some of the harshest criticism over here was from climate change activists and left-leaning press such as The Guardian.
> 
> ...



I prefer George Soros thanks.  Go on, off you pop, I want 500 links to how he's a baby killing family hating Stalinist socialist Nazi collaborator on my desk by lunchtime.  What's your feelings about how the protests in Egypt have sparked support from similar anti-government demonstrations by like-minded social-networking-savvy youth in Iran, by the way?


----------



## TLSS_N (Feb 15, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Which 'big players'?  Some of the harshest criticism over here was from climate change activists and left-leaning press such as The Guardian.
> 
> al gore and the like.
> 
> ...



Source in his own words.

edit two:

have a read, see how he topples nations, sound familiar?


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## TheViolentOne (Feb 15, 2011)

steve-p said:
			
		

> islam is a religion, "they" dress like that because it's the culture of the country - christans and muslims often look the same - but each country is different.
> 
> as for killing for god,
> catholic's ran up a pretty good bodycount during the enquisition,
> ...



well about the clothes ..you dont get what I mean.I am saying that arabs are showing their clothes as a part of islam to us -turks I mean we are muslim too you know-  
and as a result of that terror and rightist occur.Dont say there's no connection and just look at my sig -_-'''  I hope you understand what I mean cuz this is something important and you have to live here to know what it really is.Besides consider the fact that I am a muslim too before you answer ok? and also I know about the zionists and the number of people that have killed ok?


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 16, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> so, when he says only government can fix jobs, it's wrong?
> 
> Wrong what?  You googled "Only goverment can solve" words I can't find him saying, ever.  The closet he came was a speech where, before he said that in the current climate ( a disaster which finally buried the myth of self-regulation) that the federal government was the only entity which was currently in a position to get businesses back on their feet so _they_ could rebuild the economy, he SPECIFICALLY SAID
> 
> ...



Wow, someone on the American right attacking someone for supporting the toppling of nations, there's irony for you.

90% of the world is absolutely delighted and proud of what the Egyptian people have done, stop being a sourpus because your best mate and his thugs are not in power any more.

The Eygptians got sick of being oppressed, got their asses on Facebook and did something about it, toppled a 30 year dictator in less than 30 days.  _Deal with it_.


----------



## TLSS_N (Feb 16, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Wrong what?  You googled "Only goverment can solve" words I can't find him saying, ever.  The closet he came was a speech where, before he said that in the current climate ( a disaster which finally buried the myth of self-regulation) that the federal government was the only entity which was currently in a position to get businesses back on their feet so _they_ could rebuild the economy, he SPECIFICALLY SAID
> 
> *"we cannot depend on government alone to create jobs or long-term growth"*
> 
> ...



It's not like I can do anything about it, now can I? The egyptians should count themselves lucky, Iran is calling for the execution of the leaders of the protesters there.

@ soros, that link was to explain the way he works, happen to realize most of that is going on in europe? he even states that CHINA has a better government than the us, would you agree with him there?


----------



## BlueStar (Feb 16, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> no matter where I source, its wrong, so.. let me provide a "better" response.
> 
> Wait, we're going onto things like TSA now?  How rich congressmen are? Does this thread actually have a topic, or is it just your version of your personal talk radio show where you rage vaguely against every Democract and imagined left-wing conspiracy?  You still keep putting things in quotes Obama hasn't said, and you've still not shown him saying anything like that the government should take control of all industry and outlaw privately owned businesses.  This is because you can't actually find any quotes of Obamas which follow Marxist ideology.
> 
> ...



At the moment, their economic record show they've been very efficient at boosting the economy.  However, I don't think the growth is sustainable.  Certainly, their focus on manufacturing, rather than shutting down manufacturing industry and concentrating on jobs where you move around money that doesn't really exist has been the clever choice.  i like the way that link points out how much Soros has donated to the anti-communist movement in China.


----------



## Blood Fetish (Feb 16, 2011)

When you have to quote more than one thing at a time the argument is too fragmented. You both need to focus your debate on a single issue, otherwise you will not convince anyone reading of anything, other than both of you being crazy.


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## TLSS_N (Feb 18, 2011)

<!--quoteo(post=3461118:date=Feb 16 2011, 05:54 PM:name=BlueStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlueStar @ Feb 16 2011, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3461118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, we're going onto things like TSA now?  How rich congressmen are? Does this thread actually have a topic, or is it just your version of your personal talk radio show where you rage vaguely against every Democract and imagined left-wing conspiracy?  You still keep putting things in quotes Obama hasn't said, and you've still not shown him saying anything like that the government should take control of all industry and outlaw privately owned businesses.  This is because you can't actually find any quotes of Obamas which follow Marxist ideology.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Obama has no right to do any of the things listed above, he's a tax and spend democrat of the worse order, and he wants a double dip recession, THAT'S ALL. last I checked A VAST majority of the country is in this agreement with me. there is no more use in beating a dead horse, the federal government is not the answer, it never has been and it never will be. LOOK at Greece, look at Ireland. THEY ARE BANKRUPT! Europe is following suit weather you like it or not, inflation is already at 4 percent in the united kingdom alone! You people are screwed, and Obama is enabling the whole of Europe like the crack addicts they are, except it's not crack, it's spending. 



Spoiler



[youtube]WdcQGJF_jmY[/youtube]



<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which has WHAT to do with the topic, or even the three thousand random tangents you've taken it on?  Or do you think Marxism means just any inefficient and/or meddling government in a mixed economy?  Because if the US Democrat Party is a Marxist organisation, then I hate to break it to you, but you didn't win the Cold War because practically every country in the world is governed by a Marxist government.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg" target="_blank">link</a>

HE GETS IT, <b>YOU DON'T!</b> and you never will, you'll end up just like carl marx, starving in a pos house with your  children starving to death! just as long as the government can take care of everything, your fine with that!  

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You've still not given any example of anything Obama has said or done which is Marxist.  The best you've got is the occasional centre-left position, in amongst a speech littered with capitalist doctrine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

like he's going to come out now that he's president and blatently state "I am a marxist", he's going to run again. He wants to have a chance to at least win! IF IT <u>WALKS</u> LIKE A MARXIST, IF IT <u>TALKS</u> LIKE A MARXIST, <b>IT MUST BE A MARXIST</b>!

I've already provided the evidence, if your to sick to realize the truth, then your beyond reason.

they say you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep: 
BILL AYERS
JEREMIAH WRIGHT
FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS
and about a blue million others!

he even said it himself.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Judge me by the people with whom I surround myself<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

well, I have judged! your a fool bluestar,
have a good life working twords the destruction of others!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you talking about your position in this thread or... What?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Your a fool, a demented fool.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you think the people of Egypt, one of the oldest civilisations in the world, are stupid enough to get this far in acheiving freedom only to allow someone to swan along and set up a religious theocracy?  So what if the Muslim Brotherhood start a political party?  I'm sure pretty much every interest will start one, that's what a democracy is about.  What exactly can they do or say anyway as far as you're concerend?  They "claim" they aren't going to run for president, you don't believe them,  Mubarak "claimed" he was going to step down in September, his people didn't believe him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

"<u><b>SO WHAT</b></u> if the Muslim Brotherhood starts a political party?" 

Youssef al-Qaradawi, The Voice of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood... so <i>what</i>, if he praises <b><u><a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,745526,00.html" target="_blank">adolf hitler</a></u></b>!?

SO LONG AS EVERYONE GETS A FARE SKAKE, WHO CARES? 

you don't think they have people on the inside already, you don't think they would try to steal the election?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Compared to the way many countries have acheived democracy, this is not a bloody road.  You can NEVER make an environment when someone you don't like has no chance of gaining power in free elections.  ou will be waiting forever.  Which is easy for you to do, sitting around the world in a country with free elections and freedom of the press.  You may have less patience if you lived in Egypt or Bahrain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

the obama team seams to <a href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100075628/the-muslim-brotherhood-gets-a-pr-makeover-%E2%80%93from-the-us-director-of-national-intelligence/" target="_blank">praise</a> the Muslim brotherhood, but "doesn't" have a bias <a href="http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/16/in_major_reversal_us_to_rebuke_israel_in_security_council" target="_blank">against</a> israel, not at all! /sarcasm.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You've just spent half this thread slagging off Obama for not supporting Mubarak enough!  True stability comes from democracy, true democracy comes from WITHIN.  You can't just put democracy onto a country where the PEOPLE aren't demanding it, like the US attempted to put democracy into Iraq like you put a postage stamp on a letter.

The "stability" brought by a deeply unpopular dictator like Mubarak is a FALSE stabilty.  This has been demonstrated bny the fact he was toppled by a facebook campaign.  If you quelled these portests, what's to say that your hated Muslim Brotherhood couldn't have toppled him just as easily?  Once people were sick of his shit and took to the streets, your plan is... What?  Support Mubarak's gestapo when they beat the protestors?  Send in UN troops to fire rubber bullets at them until they shut up and go back to work?

If the transition can be framed as foreigners and the UN forcing something on Egypt, it's very easy for extremists to frame themselves as 'defenders' against opposing forces.  As far as I'm concerned, there is far more chance of Egypt falling into chaos or another Mubarak under your plan of outside interference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Where was MR. OBAMA last time the Iranians revolted? ANSWER: nowhere!
Where was MR. OBAMA when egypt revolted? ANSWER: everywhere!
Where is MR. OBAMA now that Iranians are going for a second attempt? ANSWER: nowhere!

I THOUGHT he was the LEADER of the FREE world, it turns out he's the leader of HIS OWN INTERESTS!
WHERE IS THE BACKBONE? where is the spine now that irans moving? HE'S A COWARD, even Michael more says he url="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/11/13/michael_moore_to_obama_take_off_the_pink_tutu.html"]needs to take off the pink tutu![/url] 

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope, the people have spoken.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

and there in incredible danger, not now, but down the road.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At the moment, their economic record show they've been very efficient at boosting the economy.  However, I don't think the growth is sustainable.  Certainly, their focus on manufacturing, rather than shutting down manufacturing industry and concentrating on jobs where you move around money that doesn't really exist has been the clever choice.  i like the way that link points out how much Soros has donated to the anti-communist movement in China.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I thought as much.

this is the same George sores who wants al-Qaida back <a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=264153" target="_blank">in control</a> of government.



you go on ahead, push your leftist IDEAS, I am <u>done</u> with idiots like you, and apparently, by the powers being held in some European governments, so are the people.
FRANCE has Nicolas Sarkozy
GERMANY has Christian Wulff
U.K. has David Cameron
ITALY has Silvio Berlusconi
ARMENIA has Serzh Sargsyan
CZECH REPUBLIC has Václav Klaus
LIECHTENSTEIN has Klaus Tschütscher
NETHERLANDS has Mark Rutte
POLAND has Bronisław Komorowski
SWEDEN has Fredrik Reinfeldt
IRELAND has Mary McAleese

ALL OF THEM ARE <u>CENTER RIGHT</u>!

all the rest are either former communist party members, or are new to the political field.

I am <u>done</u> with this conversation, no matter how I phrase something, you will just rebuke it.

<a href="http://fdd.typepad.com/fdd/2006/01/alert_saddams_c.html" target="_blank">Here</a> is the link to the torture video's, take it for what you want, I told you the truth, EGYPT had it on easy street compared to others in the region! --TD or anyone who wishes to remove it, do as you wish.

Mubarak was practically a saint, but you don't care, no one cares! as long as you see a moderate muslim ousted so that a radicalized government can take power, persecute the christians, the jews and anyone else who doesn't tote the extremeist line. 

ONE last question, when is the last time you heard a story out of egypt like <a href="http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2004/676/" target="_blank">this one</a>? thought so, Mubarak kept the RADICALS at bay! 



Spoiler: BlueStar, your dreams have come true.



<img src="http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/gallery/devrx/revenge15.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />




Don't bother responding, I wont reply!

edit for the road, LOOK who's coming to <a href="http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/02/17/138093.html" target="_blank">preach</a> friday!


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## BlueStar (Feb 18, 2011)

The Living Shadow said:
			
		

> Obama has no right to do any of the things listed above,
> 
> Yes he does, he was elected as president of the United States.
> 
> ...


*

OK, so if Obama's personal thugs were treating tea partiers like Mubarak treated protesters and dissidents you would think this was OK because it wasn't as bad as Saddam? Have you seen the videos of Mubarak's enforcers sodomizing a bus driver as punishment?  But that's OK, yeah, you're fine with that?  you seem to think you're being oppressed because you were given a tax cut and you get patted down at the airport, you're telling me you'd put up with Obama if he treated dissent like Mubarak did?

Speaking of the war in Iraq, have you seen this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/1...d-lies-iraq-war

Mubarak was practically a saint, but you don't care, no one cares! as long as you see a moderate muslim ousted so that a radicalized government can take power, persecute the christians, the jews and anyone else who doesn't tote the extremeist line. 

He was an extremist despot who slaughtered moderates, but you don't care as long as YOU have rights and freedoms because you are a coward and a hypocrite.

ONE last question, when is the last time you heard a story out of egypt like this one? thought so, Mubarak kept the RADICALS at bay!

That's the same reason the US supported Saddam, because his secular government saw Islamists as a personal threat. 

Don't bother responding, I wont reply

I don't believe you on this more than I believe everything you repeat from Beck and Limbaugh.*


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## Stevetry (Feb 18, 2011)

guys i am worried Iran move two of it Warships to Syria i have a bad feeling about this they have enver done something like this


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