# Sony Comes Clean- Personal Data Stolen



## Livin in a box (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm not going to just copy everything over, but I do suggest you read everything over at PlayStation.Blog here.

Essentially, Sony has admitted what we though for ages- whoever got into the servers took whatever they could in terms of account information and Sony cannot rule out the possibility that credit card information may have been taken too.

They have hired the expertise of an external company to do the investigating and it is looking unlikely that PSN will resume service tomorrow like previously expected; Sony say that it will be up again within a week.

It took them 6 days to tell us this- is that good enough? Should they have told us sooner?


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## SinHarvest24 (Apr 26, 2011)

i read this a few days ago somewhere else...


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## VashTS (Apr 26, 2011)

this was told to us a while back by someone.  they reported that the information is not encrypted and sent over secure servers.  i hope tons of people report fraud and sue the SHIT out of sony. teach them a major lesson for sure. 

and to think they could have paid hotz to work on better security after the flaws were found.


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## doyama (Apr 26, 2011)

Seems to add credence to the hack not being part of the ReBug PSN issue, which I always found a rediculous concept.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> i read this a few days ago somewhere else...



Find that hard to believe considering that blog was posted today.


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## Yuan (Apr 26, 2011)

They should have told this EARLIER.


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## doyama (Apr 26, 2011)

VashTS said:
			
		

> this was told to us a while back by someone.  they reported that the information is not encrypted and sent over secure servers.  i hope tons of people report fraud and sue the SHIT out of sony. teach them a major lesson for sure.
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> and to think they could have paid hotz to work on better security after the flaws were found.



This has very very very little to do with the security on the client side.


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## sergster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

The SECOND sony realized this it should have been reported. Even if it was JUST speculation it SHOULD have been announced that personal data and credit card info may have been leaked. I foresee a HUGE drop in sony's stocks today and I see a class action lawsuit on its way.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 26, 2011)

Anyone sense an inside job.


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## RupeeClock (Apr 26, 2011)

Yuan said:
			
		

> They should have told this EARLIER.


You're right, it may already be too late to cancel some credit cards.
In Sony's half-assed attempt to cover this up to save face, they've ultimately lost a lot more.


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## doyama (Apr 26, 2011)

sergster1 said:
			
		

> The SECOND sony realized this it should have been reported. Even if it was JUST speculation it SHOULD have been announced that personal data and credit card info may have been leaked. I foresee a HUGE drop in sony's stocks today and I see a class action lawsuit on its way.



You don't know what you don't know. Forensic analysis like this can take weeks even if you throw tons of money at it. Generally the way you approach things from a tech standpoint is that everything is compromised until you know otherwise. then you whiddle down what is and isn't clean. There's really no point in 'speculating' at the beginning, and it also depends on how the compromise was detected. If the intrusion is initially detected on a system that is not storing or communicating with other systems with customer data, then there's no point in even bringing it up since it's not relevant at that time.


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## Nujui (Apr 26, 2011)

I could see someone suing sony over this.

But I think this should have been told ever since the PS3's release.


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## sergster1 (Apr 26, 2011)

Rumor has it when sony does get its act together and reboots psn its gonna be a paid service.


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## RupeeClock (Apr 26, 2011)

sergster1 said:
			
		

> Rumor has it when sony does get its act together and reboots psn its gonna be a paid service.


Didn't this news just come to light within the past hour or two?
Ahh...the digital age huh? Rumours can spread faster than ever.


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## LunaWofl (Apr 26, 2011)

*sigh* Oh sony, what ever would we do without your crazy shenanigans.


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## tommzy2 (Apr 26, 2011)

its both sony and the hackers fault. sony should have encrypted files smarter and made them un modifiable by other people, and the hackers shouldn't do this to Sony. its terrible.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 26, 2011)

$ony should know that they cant pull a watergate on us.


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## MrDiesel (Apr 26, 2011)

Pff, hackers have done more evil than good the last few weeks. It's always the same damn song... When will this FINALLY stop?! This is hurting the fucking customers more than helping them...

And this all because of OtherOS that got removed --' Get a fucking PC to fuck with --'


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

MrDiesel said:
			
		

> Pff, hackers have done more evil than good the last few weeks. It's always the same damn song... When will this FINALLY stop?! This is hurting the fucking customers more than helping them...
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> And this all because of OtherOS that got removed --' Get a fucking PC to fuck with --'



Calm down on the swearing.

Also customers don't have to get a PC if the PS3 was advertised as being able to use OtherOS.

Sony brought this upon themselves. They went lawsuit crazy, took features away from people, and said "oh well". While I don't condone what the hackers are doing, as I said, Sony brought this upon themselves.


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## RupeeClock (Apr 26, 2011)

Senator Richard Blumental of the US is already calling this into question.
http://blumenthal.senate.gov/press/release...18-39E5937C9361
Here's an excerpt.



			
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> April 26, 2011
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Remember, the security breach was supposedly at April 20th, and it's now April 26th.


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## johnny1233465487 (Apr 26, 2011)

Only a "possibility" that credit information were stolen, Sony had no idea what's going on.
They're only blaming hackers as a scapegoat.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 26, 2011)

Oh, I also forgot to say that my brother got a call from his friend whose a hardcore PSN user.

And he said he got an e-mail from Sony saying that the servers will be down for about another month.

I don't know if this is true but I don't think my brothers friend would lie.


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## Slyakin (Apr 26, 2011)

TheDarkSeed said:
			
		

> Oh, I also forgot to say that my brother got a call from his friend whose a hardcore PSN user.
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> And he said he got an e-mail from Sony saying that the servers will be down for about another month.
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> I don't know if this is true but *I don't think my brothers friend would lie.*


You can never be sure.

I really would hate having to wait, and I would REALLY hate to have my information (like my credit cards) stolen by this. Fuck PSN.


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## awssk8er (Apr 26, 2011)

sergster1 said:
			
		

> Rumor has it when sony does get its act together and reboots psn its gonna be a paid service.


Honestly... Sony just doesn't think.


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## Sterling (Apr 26, 2011)

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Especially since one of the only advantages PSN has over XBox Live is the fact that it's free.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

TheDarkSeed said:
			
		

> Oh, I also forgot to say that my brother got a call from his friend whose a hardcore PSN user.
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> And he said he got an e-mail from Sony saying that the servers will be down for about another month.
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> I don't know if this is true but I don't think my brothers friend would lie.



Only one way to find out, did anybody else get such an email? If not, your brothers friend would, and is, lying.


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## Nujui (Apr 26, 2011)

TheDarkSeed said:
			
		

> Oh, I also forgot to say that my brother got a call from his friend whose a hardcore PSN user.
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> And he said he got an e-mail from Sony saying that the servers will be down for about another month.
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> I don't know if this is true but I don't think my brothers friend would lie.


I haven't gotten any such email.


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## Slyakin (Apr 26, 2011)

I did not get any type of email like that.

So it is probably false.


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## jorpor (Apr 26, 2011)

Slyakin said:
			
		

> I really would hate having to wait, and I would REALLY hate to have my information (like my credit cards) stolen by this. Fuck PSN.


You mean fuck the hackers.
Sony can't help this. I bet people will say: "Sony should have protected it better!",
but seriously, hackers can hack anything these days, so don't say this is Sony's fault.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

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In a way it is though.


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## jaxxster (Apr 26, 2011)

This isnt false! Its an offical statement from Sony! 

Plus i highly doubt they would change to a paid only service when it reboots! Could you imagine that, "oh sorry we put your personal/credit card info at risk last time....this time to use our service you must enter your credit card info!" 

MS must be loving the start to the year! After all this things couldnt be worse for Sony!

It makes me wonder, did the same idiots who programmed the ps3's security to have a unsecure algrorithim also program the security on the psn servers?

Either way Sony should fire alot of people over this.

And if AnonOps didnt do this? Then who the heck did?


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 26, 2011)

MrDiesel said:
			
		

> Pff, hackers have done more evil than good the last few weeks. It's always the same damn song... When will this FINALLY stop?! This is hurting the fucking customers more than helping them...
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> And this all because of OtherOS that got removed --' Get a fucking PC to fuck with --'Nice generalization.....
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Someone who doesn't live in their mom's basement.


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## jaxxster (Apr 26, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

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Not entirely! Sony should have better protected thier servers. I'm not 100% how it works but knowing sony they kept the info in some sore of plain text easily readable format, no hashes or anything.


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## jorpor (Apr 26, 2011)

Now that was sarcastic, twiztidsinz. The security worked, untill the hackers started to fuck with it.
Hackers who started doing this all because of the removal of Other OS. That's just pathetic. They didn't get what they wanted, so they screw it up for gamers all around the world.

So yeah, don't blame the hackers for any of this, it's all Sony's fault!!


Die hackers, just die.


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## jaxxster (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Now that was sarcastic, twiztidsinz. The security worked, untill the hackers started to fuck with it.
> Hackers who started doing this all because of the removal of Other OS. That's just pathetic. They didn't get what they wanted, so they screw it up for gamers all around the world.
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> So yeah, don't blame the hackers for any of this, it's all Sony's fault!!
> ...



Just wanted to add that apparently some people who did research into stuff that was sent across the network was sent in an unencrypted plain text format!


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Now that was sarcastic, twiztidsinz. The security worked, untill the hackers started to fuck with it.
> Hackers who started doing this all because of the removal of Other OS. That's just pathetic. They didn't get what they wanted, so they screw it up for gamers all around the world.
> 
> So yeah, don't blame the hackers for any of this, it's all Sony's fault!!
> ...


Group A and Group B are not the same.

The ones who hacked the PS3 after OtherOS was removed *AND FOUND THE PAPER THIN SECURITY THAT SONY USED TO TRANSMIT YOUR INFORMATION* *ARE NOT* the ones responsible for this.
But hey! Don't let a thing like logic and rational stop your erage.


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## jan777 (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Now that was sarcastic, twiztidsinz. *The security worked, untill the hackers started to fuck with it.*
> Hackers who started doing this all because of the removal of Other OS. That's just pathetic. They didn't get what they wanted, so they screw it up for gamers all around the world.
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> So yeah, don't blame the hackers for any of this, it's all Sony's fault!!
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Self contradiction.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 26, 2011)

jan777 said:
			
		

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The part in blue is sarcasm in response to my sarcasm.
But the thing is, had Sony NOT been sending *YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION* across the internet *UNENCRYPTED* things would be very different.


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## DJPlace (Apr 26, 2011)

should of never sold my wii for mortal kombat wtf was i thinking... i bet my money it will be up next wenesday i bet my money... this is what happens when i switch loyaltly it bites me in ass. i don't care who's fault it is just let my have my psn and if psn is going be a paid service the end of the world for sony that's sure!!

and i'm going lose a bet for this cause i'm buying back my damn wii...


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## Jamstruth (Apr 26, 2011)

Whoever did this did it entirely maliciously. They wouldn't have been able too though had the PS3 not had the most broken security ever.
As for the PSN data transfer it was https secured. The files themselves weren't scrambled though so it was a lot easier to read the info than it should have been.

Whoever did this was a complete greedy arse though


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## jorpor (Apr 26, 2011)

I was not trying to say that it's 100% the hackers fault :')
It's just that people here are blaming it all on Sony, while it isn't 100% their fault either.
If hackers didn't mess with the system, none of this would have happened.
If the hackers who hacked the PS3 after the removal of OtherOS didn't hack the system, it would be a lot harder to hack the PSN(atleast, I suppose so).

But yeah, since people on this forum(including me) just won't bend their opinions, it's pretty useless to keep this discussion going.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Now that was sarcastic, twiztidsinz. The security worked, untill the hackers started to fuck with it.
> Hackers who started doing this all because of the removal of Other OS. That's just pathetic. They didn't get what they wanted, so they screw it up for gamers all around the world.
> 
> So yeah, don't blame the hackers for any of this, it's all Sony's fault!!
> ...



Again, you can't blame it all on the hackers.

Sony brought this upon themselves. Notice how nobody really messed with the PS3 at all really until recently? Because of the way Sony became this year. 

They had no right to remove OtherOS. I mean how often do you hear of Microsoft or Nintendo updating their console, but getting rid of features people loved? Sony had no right (and it's illegal) to look at people's IP from watching a YouTube video or getting personal information, but somehow they did. 

As Stephen Colbert said in an episode: "They stuck their penis in a hornets nest."


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## Deleted User (Apr 26, 2011)

I have so much rage right now, I don't even know.


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## jorpor (Apr 26, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Again, you can't blame it all on the hackers.
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> Sony brought this upon themselves. Notice how nobody really messed with the PS3 at all really until recently? Because of the way Sony became this year.
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I do agree with you. Sony acted like they were God, and it was wrong.
But that doesn't give hackers the right to mess everything up for us gamers.
The way this whole situation turned out to be is just... I think childish is the word.
Both sides are just trying to show off how powerfull they are.


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## Pyrmon (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> I was not trying to say that it's 100% the hackers fault :')
> It's just that people here are blaming it all on Sony, while it isn't 100% their fault either.
> If hackers didn't mess with the system, none of this would have happened.
> If the hackers who hacked the PS3 after the removal of OtherOS didn't hack the system, it would be a lot harder to hack the PSN(atleast, I suppose so).
> ...


The started messing around the PS3 and PSN security BECAUSE Sony removes OtherOS. Had they not done that, people wouldn't have had an interest in hacking it. And Sony didn't protect their shit enough. It is 100% their fault.


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## jaxxster (Apr 26, 2011)

Regardless if they brought it upon themselves, they still should have better protected personal info. Espically a multi billion pound company like sony who should have known that with the amount of info they have on thier servers that it would be a jackpot to hack into


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

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Probably not. But again, Sony got away with a lot of illegal shit in the whole thing against Hotz. So how is that any different from this? They looked at our personal information, so the hackers looked at the personal information.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 26, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Sony had no right (and it's illegal) to look at people's IP from watching a YouTube video or getting personal information, but somehow they did.While it was a 100% bullshit move, it's not illegal.
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> It was Google who handed over the information, not Sony who 'obtained' it. And Google handed it over based on a court order (subpoena) for the information. It would have been illegal for Google to NOT hand it over.
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What exactly did Sony do that was illegal?


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## DSGamer64 (Apr 26, 2011)

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If they stopped suing everyone they wouldn't be getting backlash from the community. Sony deserves everything they have been getting lately.


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## jorpor (Apr 26, 2011)

pyrmon24 said:
			
		

> The started messing around the PS3 and PSN security BECAUSE Sony removes OtherOS. Had they not done that, people wouldn't have had an interest in hacking it. And Sony didn't protect their shit enough. It is 100% their fault.


Sony removed OtherOS for security reasons, since I believe HACKERS found a way to hack it.
What would you do? Risk your console for being hacked and keep it, or remove it?


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

That's what sony says, it was a security reasons. But we're talking about a company who knowingly installed rootkits on peoples computers when they popped a CD in, and then lied about it. Said they brought out a program, but they lied about the program getting rid of it too.

You can't trust Sony no more than you can trust a hacker.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> It was Google who handed over the information, not Sony who 'obtained' it. And Google handed it over based on a court order (subpoena) for the information. It would have been illegal for Google to NOT hand it over.



I thought it was illegal no matter what, but yet Sony somehow convinced the judge to give the ok....


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## BloodyFlame (Apr 26, 2011)

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Viewing IP addresses of everyone who watched/commented on a specific YouTube video.


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## Joe88 (Apr 26, 2011)

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once again thats not illegal
and also its just an IP address, they can only see generic information about it (what state did it come from) they cant find your address, name, ect... from it


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 26, 2011)

Rofl, you guys should blame these anonymous bastards, not Sony. And no, I'm not a Sony fanboy. I do not own a single Sony product.


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## macgeek417 (Apr 26, 2011)

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Yes, but they can find out your ISP, and get that info from your ISP.


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## Dimensional (Apr 26, 2011)

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They can do a reverse DNS on that IP address, and if you still use that address, then they will get your ISP, and in some cases your full name. I used to use a 3G broadband, and an IRC chatroom had my name, IP address, followed by the @ and the ISP I use. With that, they can get more about you than you realize.


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## BloodyFlame (Apr 26, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> Rofl, you guys should blame these anonymous bastards, not Sony.



Anonymous was not behind this. They are, in no way, related to this. Also, Sony left much sensitive information unencrypted. I'm pretty sure the consumers can get pissed at Sony for this.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> once again thats not illegal
> and also its just an IP address, they can only see generic information about it (what state did it come from) they cant find your address, name, ect... from it
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> Uh, yeah they can. You'd be surprised what you can find out from an IP address (assuming it's a real one, which in all likely cases, it is).
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Anonymous didn't do it. Please, go read the articles about this mess before you comment -__-


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## Dimensional (Apr 26, 2011)

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They might get pissed if they know about it. But so far, I haven't heard about this on Fox News, ABC News, or NBC News. I saw something on the CBS News website, but that was it. Nothing on the other major networks I know of. So the general public isn't being made aware about this. At least, most of the PS3 and PSP owners.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 26, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Anonymous didn't do it. Please, go read the articles about this mess before you comment -__-



That's hilarious. Anonymous are anonymous groups, right? Who can surely tell that they are not behind this? Have you proof? Really I cant understand why people defend an anonymous group in the internet. All they have done is criminal activity and now people are blaming the victim of these criminial activities. Oh crazy world...


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## Nujui (Apr 26, 2011)

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Do you have proof that they did it?

And they are not defending them, they're just saying it wasn't them.


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 26, 2011)

So what's the problem here? PSN Users' Credit Card info is with the hackers? Hm...


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 26, 2011)

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You're talking about proof? Oh good, then I assume you have proof that it was them?


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## BloodyFlame (Apr 26, 2011)

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AnonOps said they were not responsible for these attacks, though they said themselves that individuals may have done the attacks themselves.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

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My "proof" is their anonymity. They can claim that they didnt do it, but in the end, nobody knows who they are and if they said the truth. You cant trust anonymous and criminal people. That's just..no..


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

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Here's a different answer to "who did it"

We don't know, and probably will not know unless they somehow find the people who did it, or some ponies up.

So let's stop arguing about who did it.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

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And I'm assuming you can trust Sony now?

But hey, if you don't want to provide "proof", then keep your mouth shut unless you have actual facts.


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## Dimensional (Apr 27, 2011)

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How exactly is that proof? Because they are annonymous, you can't tell who they are and if they are telling the truth. To be honest, your claim is a logical fallacy called "Argumentum ad Ignorantiam", or "Argument from Ignorance". Because the claim they didn't do it can't be proven true, you assume they lied and they DID do it. And if you can't trust criminal people, then how come the US government employees some of them? You know that some of the nation's most dangerous hackers actually work for the FBI to fight cyber crimes? Your statement says that they can't be trusted, that once your a criminal your always breaking the law and there is no chance to change. I'm not defending them, but I'm not jumping to conclusions either. I'll wait until more Evidence is presented before I start pointing fingers.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

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That's not proof, that's conjecture and assumption based on anonymity.


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## giratina16 (Apr 27, 2011)

Meh, they can have my card details. I never have money in my bank account nowadays anyway.


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## Dimensional (Apr 27, 2011)

giratina16 said:
			
		

> Meh, they can have my card details. I never have money in my bank account nowadays anyway.


I wouldn't rest easy. If they have your card details, then they can use buy things on your credit. Just because you have no money in the account doesn't mean you won't owe money if it's used.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

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Of course I trust Sony. It is a company that provides services to its users and it's not its fault that some criminal bastards hacked its servers. It's just wrong to trust a criminal group more than a  company like Sony.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

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If you put proof in quotations for any other reason than to make emphasis or to clarify, which it usually signifies in cases such as this, then I question your reasoning.


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## duffmmann (Apr 27, 2011)

Yeah, based on his logic, you can point to any person thats got a criminal background, say that because they have criminal background they therefore can't be trusted and are guilty of taking out the Playstation network.

His reasoning is the same for why the US went to war in Iraq the second time, claiming that even though we can't find weapons of mass destruction, Sadam can't be trusted and therefore they have weapons of mass destruction.  Of course they didn't, yet we had an illegal war based on the assumption that they did anyway.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> If you put proof in quotations for any other reason than to make emphasis or to clarify, which it usually signifies in cases such as this, then I question your reasoning.



Honestly I dont mind, you are free to question what you want.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

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Yeah because Sony hasn't done anything to screw people over and have their personal info at risk right?

You can't trust Sony any more than you can trust a hacker. Not to mention it's been proven that Sony hasn't encrypted personal data at all, so it's not hard to hack the stuff and look at the personal data, not to mention they have... I'm sorry, HAD crap security that anybody who put a bit of effort into it could get into their system.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

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Thank you for spelling out my rights. But if you don't mind why did you reply to my initial post?


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Apr 27, 2011)

I wonder what Kevin Butler has to say about all this?


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 27, 2011)

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Neither did I. I hope this isn't true either. 

Why couldn't the hackers be like robin hood, steal from the rich($ony) and give to the poor(Psn users). It would've been nice for everyone to automatically see $1000 in their wallet hen they sign into Psn.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Yeah because Sony hasn't done anything to screw people over and have their personal info at risk right?
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> You can't trust Sony any more than you can trust a hacker. Not to mention it's been proven that Sony hasn't encrypted personal data at all, so it's not hard to hack the stuff and look at the personal data, not to mention they have... I'm sorry, HAD crap security that anybody who put a bit of effort into it could get into their system.



I see, so you equate a leading company with some anonymous criminals in the internet. That damn Sony, what are they thinking to ddos sites and steal private data


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

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See you still haven't given any proof as to why you can't trust Anonymous. First of all, they don't rob or anything. Anything bad they do, it's actually for the good, so this goes against what the whole point of the group is, it goes against what they believe in.

I on the other hand have proven that Sony can't be trusted.


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

According too you two you can't trust anybody that has done wrong.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

I know this may be Off Topic but I won't have anywhere else to say it.
Shadow Soldier and WiiBricker, you guys remind me of Guild McCommunist and King Vamp.

Just throwing that out there.


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## duffmmann (Apr 27, 2011)

plus, does anyone even think Anonymous were really capable of taking the PSN out for this long and getting ahold of each member's info?  They've shown some hackery know how in the past but never anything as big as this.  Plus yeah, it wouldn't be in the Anonymous mantra to steal credit card info, even if they had access to it, they'd be more interested in stealing from Sony, not its users.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 27, 2011)

duffmmann said:
			
		

> plus, does anyone even think Anonymous were really capable of taking the PSN out for this long and getting ahold of each member's info?  They've shown some hackery know how in the past but never anything as big as this.  Plus yeah, it wouldn't be in the Anonymous mantra to steal credit card info, even if they had access to it, they'd be more interested in stealing from Sony, not its users.


Anonymous is a bunch of ebullies, not some noble defender of justice like they'd have you believe.
Remember "For the lulz" became popular/mainstream once a news story covered their harassment of a kid.


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## GreatZimkogway (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> According too you two you can't trust anybody that has done wrong.



You...100%...cannot trust everyone.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> WiiBricker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There hasnt been anything proven. Your logic has flaws. Sony has been trying with *legal methods* to defend its rights and the security of its console. GeoHot lives in the US and there it is strictly illegal to violate the DMCA. So Sony has every right to do legal actions.

Your anonymous group in the other hand are just some criminals, who dont know otherwise. Who knows what perverted humans they may are. And they didnt hesitate to insult people who post their opinions in news blogs if they are against them.

If anything has been proven, then that Anonymous cant be trust. You cant trust random guys on the internet.


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Duskye said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you can't trust anybody, than why does the word "trust" even exist?


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## duffmmann (Apr 27, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> duffmmann said:
> 
> 
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> ...



Oh, I'm aware that they are bullies, but even so, their whole reason for wanting to attack Sony in the past was for their treatment of Hotz.  It doesn't seem like a group going after a company because that company wont let its users have access to homebrew is out to get the same users.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> According too you two you can't trust anybody that has done wrong.









Everybody lies.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> shinkukage09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So we know not to do it?


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> I know this may be Off Topic but I won't have anywhere else to say it.
> Shadow Soldier and WiiBricker, you guys remind me of Guild McCommunist and King Vamp.
> 
> Just throwing that out there.


Oh yeah that was necessary.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







@OP That isn't good at all!


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Duskye said:
> 
> 
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> ...


But still, I don't understand why you can't trust anybody.

Like if you buy something online. You have to trust that the person that you're buying from is not gonna screw you over.

If you can tell me why I can't trust anybody, than do please tell me. Don't get me wrong, I don't trust a majority of people, but that doesn't mean I don't trust everybody.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> But still, I don't understand why you can't trust anybody.



He apparently was joking. If you really cant trust anybody, then there is no point in sociality.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
> 
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Duskeye...I was kidding.  I think it's best to be cautious, though.


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Duskye said:
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> 
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Than maybe you shoud have said you were kidding?

I just get it too often that I can't trust anybody from my Parents, so I took both of your post as that.

Sorry.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
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> 
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Nah, it was a pretty subtle joke anyway.
Not that it matters though, because at the very heart it is technically what they mean.


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## chrisrlink (Apr 27, 2011)

this is why i never used credit on PSN always used PSN cards


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## 777kidis777 (Apr 27, 2011)

Ahaha, good thing I got rid of my information on my account then!

Well, I would say it really isn't Sony's fault. They may have not known that information was taked UNTIL a later date. This MAY be possible, but it's just my theory.

Another note, I believe I saw a post about someone who changed security, but left an algorithm the hacker could have accessed. Now, this could be possible, as we don't know the status of the person. Fired due to something, and took out their anger by doing so? Just a thought.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

777kidis777 said:
			
		

> Ahaha, good thing I got rid of my information on my account then!
> 
> Well, I would say it really isn't Sony's fault. They may have not known that information was taked UNTIL a later date. This MAY be possible, but it's just my theory.
> 
> Another note, I believe I saw a post about someone who changed security, but left an algorithm the hacker could have accessed. Now, this could be possible, as we don't know the status of the person. Fired due to something, and took out their anger by doing so? Just a thought.




Chances are Sony still had all your personal information on file stored away somewhere. Just because you delete it, doesn't mean they did.


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## Dimensional (Apr 27, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> There hasnt been anything proven. Your logic has flaws. Sony has been trying with *legal methods* to defend its rights and the security of its console. GeoHot lives in the US and there it is strictly illegal to violate the DMCA. So Sony has every right to do legal actions.
> 
> Your anonymous group in the other hand are just some criminals, who dont know otherwise. Who knows what perverted humans they may are. And they didnt hesitate to insult people who post their opinions in news blogs if they are against them.
> 
> If anything has been proven, then that Anonymous cant be trust. You cant trust random guys on the internet.


It was originally illegal to jailbreak the iPhone because it violated the DMCA. Then there was the exemption that made Jailbreaking legal. This proves your first statement flawed by the fact that the law can be changed. Exemptions can be made.

Annonymous isn't a group of criminals. Yes, they do things that do damage, but not in the long term. They might be bullies, attacking people who's opinions are against them, but who in this world doesn't do that? We all have our opinions, and we don't like people who's opinions are against us. Some of us just don't bother to attack back. And most of us who do attack, just try to argue over and over again. A criminal on the other hand only does things for personal gain that also isn't for others, while Annonymous only goes after people they feel violates their rights and the rights of others. So your second statement is flawed.

Your right, you can't trust a random guy on the internet. In my eyes, YOUR a random guy on the internet, so I guess I can't trust you or anything you say, which in turns makes your last statement flawed. 

Immediately I used your own logic against you. I do apoligize if I'm offending you. I did get caught up in this. But you need to think things through logically, see it from others point of view. Don't jump to conclusions without having as much of the facts as possible.


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## 777kidis777 (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Chances are Sony still had all your personal information on file stored away somewhere. Just because you delete it, doesn't mean they did.



I doubt it, huge chance. It MUST be re-entered if it were to be used again.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

777kidis777 said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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Yeah but that doesn't matter because they still have it, re-entering it doesn't really seem like it would be a difficult task at all.


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## 777kidis777 (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> 777kidis777 said:
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I know it wouldn't, but what if they deleted the data after you remove it? I mean, there HAS to be a reason WHY you have to re-enter it, correct? I'm not trying to stand by my point, but it's also a theory. Aha.


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 27, 2011)

Dimensional said:
			
		

> Annonymous isn't a group of criminals. Yes, they do things that do damage, but not in the long term. They might be bullies, attacking people who's opinions are against them, but who in this world doesn't do that?
> I'm not talking about bullying someone or sending pizzas to the house of a companies president. Last time I checked, ddosing servers was a criminal act that can get you in prison.
> 
> 
> ...



Dont worry, I'm not offended at all. I actually appreciate people that express and defend their opinions. This makes discussions more interesting.


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## Rayder (Apr 27, 2011)

Now maybe people will understand why I don't want any "internet-happy" game systems.  It's bad enough to have to be diligent with your computer against spyware and viruses, let alone having to worry about identity theft through your game console.

77 million people will now have to keep a special watch on their bank statements for who knows how long.  Isn't that fun?


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

Because you have to used the internet and this happens consistently.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Because you have to used the internet and this happens consistently.


Doesn't have to happen constantly...
Identity theft just once can be enough to screw a person over for a good number of years.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> 
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While that true, that doesn't make internet play (lack of a better word) stupid. 

Mean the internet itself or anything can be a/at risk.

Just losing a social security card can mess you up. Just have to do everything cautiously...

I didn't really like Sony methods, but they are not going to just sit there and let your stuff get taken.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well this was amusing (both the thread and this whole iteration of the saga)- I appreciate those trying to bring a measure of sanity to it. Others the short version of what follows is the world is a hugely complex place and computer security is certainly no exception. Blindly generalising just serves to make you appear very foolish and/or misinformed.

Some points

Hacking- it is a skillset in much the same way that writing is a skill. Similarly there are many shades of grey and well others have already pulled people up for generalising.

Sony's fault- certainly there is blame for the perpetrators of the hack but if I may use an analogy; if you leave your front door open and someone walks in and subsequently relieves you of all your stuff they are at fault but you are equally at fault for effectively allowing it to happen and your insurance company are not likely to do much other than laugh at you if you try to claim for such acts.
Key would here would be negligence- initial evidence does point to Sony not operating with the greatest care but everybody loves a bit of spin so waiting might be a better thing.

On the credit card side of things I am not sure where the excess falls these days but if you can prove fraudulent use (not necessarily the easiest thing) you do not have to pay anything. Equally and returning to the initial analogy if you are carefree with your numbers then you might also get to watch your monies disappear. I should also mention credit score is not a concept that has a huge amount of traction outside the US and Canada, do not get me wrong it is not ideal to have a low one but it does not tend to trouble you quite as much.

Trust- even among those in the security trade there is a phrase along the lines of "trust but verify". Along the same lines is it not worth considering what gains a carefully worded statement or outright lie might serve to gain?

"Can't trust a criminal"- surely this only applies if the law is flawless which by the very existence of one of the fundamental components of the law alone (case law) it is prone not to be.

People mentioned stocks- those things love rumours and speculation like this (or indeed do not depending on what you have riding on them) so consider anything official from Sony to have been picked over with a fine tooth comb for words that can trigger mass sales of stock. Indeed if it was not looked at by PR, legal and several other divisions with similar mandates then there probably is a precedent for stockholders and the like to sue Sony (similar idea to the negligent practice mentioned above).

The last few months of Sony vs the world- letter of the law maybe although I can see things coming undone if pushed (not that anybody probably will at this point), spirit and general nicety to/playing fair with others will take some serious convincing for me to get there.

"If hackers didn't mess with the system, none of this would have happened."
Beyond taking words at face value then this statement is dangerous at best- I argue it is akin to saying "I believe my gods will protect me" and expecting it to actually do something.

I will +1 that forensic investigation of this magnitude takes serious time and manpower.

I have nothing really to say on the matter of Anonymous that was not already covered in some way in the rest of this post. Sure it could be an affiliate but by the looks of things it was not a sanctioned action if their mouthpiece can be taken at their word. The very lack of cohesion/traditional structure is something quite interesting though and to my mind quite an ingenious response to various concepts and it seems to be something people and especially news companies and some legal types have a hard time wrapping their heads around. I am reminded at some level of the "video game killers*" I occasionally hear about.

*"We have it on good authority that someone somewhere with some connection might have played or even owned a method by which to play games."

I think I will close with- pay close attention people as the echoes of this whole saga will be felt for decades to come although not necessarily in ways anybody wherever they might happen to fall was hoping for. It is a very nice case of the emperor has no clothes and at the same time a nice example of a large company being completely out of the depth with no idea how to react effectively in the modern world.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Rayder said:
			
		

> Now maybe people will understand why I don't want any "internet-happy" game systems.  It's bad enough to have to be diligent with your computer against spyware and viruses, let alone having to worry about identity theft through your game console.
> 
> 77 million people will now have to keep a special watch on their bank statements for who knows how long.  Isn't that fun?



77 million people have to. I say maybe about 10 million actually will.


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## antwill (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Rayder said:
> 
> 
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You shouldn't think all the people with PSN accounts actually entered CC details into it, I for one didn't, and I can't imagine I'm the only one.


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## Wintrale (Apr 27, 2011)

Meh, it's no big deal for me. I used a PayPal Top Up Card and those were all deactivated at the beginning of the month.

I really feel sorry for Sony, though... Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out. Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system. Hackers get pissed and hit the PS3 even harder, which culminates in that key being found. As if that wasn't enough, the hackers turned to PSN itself and ruined it for everyone. Now none of us can use our PS3s online, our personal information has been stolen -- ohwait, no. Sorry. Identity theft isn't stealing, I forgot. You still have the original, after all, so anyone copying it and using it themselves hasn't actually _stolen_ anything. So it's perfectly fine.

Where was I? Oh yeah. Thank you, whoever out there decided to be a smart arse and ruin everything for the consumer. We owe you a lot. Like an penectomy.


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## Joe88 (Apr 27, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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I didnt either

you have to exclude all the variables also
like I have 3 different PSN accounts (different regions) to get items from the PSN store that arnt offered in other regions 

accounts that arnt used anymore
and accounts that never entered any cc information


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## shakirmoledina (Apr 27, 2011)

well if a firmware that isnt authenticating logins is passed around, that becomes a really dangerous issue. I hope the ppl exploited are either none or few, a thousand should be max

since the actual hack, every part of their security seems to fall apart and it increased after the geohot case. they won but left a bad mark for others to come again.


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## 777kidis777 (Apr 27, 2011)

Wow, so does anyone know a time PSN will be back on, or can estimate one?


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## Nathan Drake (Apr 27, 2011)

777kidis777 said:
			
		

> Wow, so does anyone know a time PSN will be back on, or can estimate one?



As none of us are Sony, no.


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## BloodyFlame (Apr 27, 2011)

777kidis777 said:
			
		

> Wow, so does anyone know a time PSN will be back on, or can estimate one?



The current situation is much more important than whether PSN will be back on or not.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> Meh, it's no big deal for me. I used a PayPal Top Up Card and those were all deactivated at the beginning of the month.
> 
> I really feel sorry for Sony, though... Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out. Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system. Hackers get pissed and hit the PS3 even harder, which culminates in that key being found. As if that wasn't enough, the hackers turned to PSN itself and ruined it for everyone. Now none of us can use our PS3s online, our personal information has been stolen -- ohwait, no. Sorry. Identity theft isn't stealing, I forgot. You still have the original, after all, so anyone copying it and using it themselves hasn't actually _stolen_ anything. So it's perfectly fine.
> 
> Where was I? Oh yeah. Thank you, whoever out there decided to be a smart arse and ruin everything for the consumer. We owe you a lot. Like an penectomy.


Think the OtherOS was taken away first and this haven't even been confirm. We don't know the whole story on this either. 

Plus stop trying to make all hackers look bad.  

Plus Identity theft is going around like you someone else pretty much owning everything that person has is stealing. Trying hard to lump privacy into this. 

You always jumping the gun.


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## 777kidis777 (Apr 27, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> As none of us are Sony, no.
> 
> QUOTE(BloodyFlame @ Apr 26 2011, 08:35 PM) The current situation is much more important than whether PSN will be back on or not.




Well, even then, I asked for an estimate, like, what do you guys think? IF and WHEN it may come back on?


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## MrCooper (Apr 27, 2011)

That is extremely over exaggerated


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## FireGrey (Apr 27, 2011)

BloodyFlame said:
			
		

> 777kidis777 said:
> 
> 
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no cause killing ppl on cod is much more important...


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## 777kidis777 (Apr 27, 2011)

MrCooper said:
			
		

> That is extremely over exaggerated
> 
> Well, they're facing a LOT. Potential lawsuits, loss of customers, all of that.
> 
> QUOTE(FireGrey @ Apr 26 2011, 08:48 PM) no cause killing ppl on cod is much more important...



+1.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 27, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> Meh, it's no big deal for me. I used a PayPal Top Up Card and those were all deactivated at the beginning of the month.
> 
> I really feel sorry for Sony, though... Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out. Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system. Hackers get pissed and hit the PS3 even harder, which culminates in that key being found. As if that wasn't enough, the hackers turned to PSN itself and ruined it for everyone. Now none of us can use our PS3s online, our personal information has been stolen -- ohwait, no. Sorry. Identity theft isn't stealing, I forgot. You still have the original, after all, so anyone copying it and using it themselves hasn't actually _stolen_ anything. So it's perfectly fine.
> 
> Where was I? Oh yeah. Thank you, whoever out there decided to be a smart arse and ruin everything for the consumer. We owe you a lot. Like an penectomy.



Where to start- your entire post is loaded with misused terms and inaccuracies and I would encourage you to read up on the technical side of things as well as history and computer security in general. It will be long and boring but if you wish to be taken seriously in a thread (you are dangerously close to making a fool of yourself) such as this it looks like it will be something you need to do.

"Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out"
They have now?- most of the stuff only really came to the fore in the last 12 months (considerably less than half of the PS3 lifetime). Granted there were a few things over the years but it mainly came to a head with some of the glitch attacks and later (more prominently) with the USB jailbreak. Now my memory might be hazy on occasion but that was only last year, this current round of stuff really kicked off with the 27C3 conference.

"Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system"
That might be the present assumption but I will do a call for proof and cite the counter examples of the slim lacking such things in a timeframe that does not match up. Equally Sony managed to lock it down once before (see the early otheros graphics hack).

"As if that wasn't enough, the hackers turned to PSN itself and ruined it for everyone. Now none of us can use our PS3s online"
You seem to be confusing hackers with an amorphous mass of people- this is very bad form as hackers as previously mentioned are just people with a few choice skills (often quite varying skills too). Those that identify themselves as hackers (leaving aside the whole debate as to the definition of the term) quite often has a very well thought out plan for morals too and there will be certain activities and methodologies that they have no wish to partake in- I know I used it before in another thread but do have a look at the debate surround the timing of disclosure of security holes as it is a great example of this mindset.

Equally do not Sony share some of the blame- this is the real world with comes with real world rules and consequences- Sony have in the last few months been repeatedly demonstrated not to be keeping up with or paying enough heed to.

"Sorry. Identity theft isn't stealing, I forgot. You still have the original, after all, so anyone copying it and using it themselves hasn't actually _stolen_ anything. So it's perfectly fine."
If this is some almost satirical dig at a rather weak pro piracy argument I applaud you, if it is not and you are again confusing terms then first I doubt anybody will claim such a thing or even has claimed such a thing in earnest as it were or could even justifiably do as such. The address, names, details and numbers for electronic payment cards are valuable data and although there is an element of it is only valuable if you know how to use it (see some of the broadsides against those on carding forums that have "thousands" of numbers and no idea how to do anything with them) few will try to understate the potential for bad present in such a situation as we now see.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

777kidis777 said:
			
		

> Wow, so does anyone know a time PSN will be back on, or can estimate one?



Sony's probably thinking this:

"It will be up when it's up."


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## Rydian (Apr 27, 2011)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> "Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system"
> That might be the present assumption but I will do a call for proof and cite the counter examples of the slim lacking such things in a timeframe that does not match up.


To elaborate, this is referring to the fact that the Slim was released without OtherOS at all, and this was before Geohot even announced his famous "hack" (which, BTW, was to re-add OtherOS support), and was before they removed it from the Fat models.

http://www.osnews.com/story/22073/Why_N...im_Sony_Answers

They said it was due to costs, not security.


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## omgitsmisha (Apr 27, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> Meh, it's no big deal for me. I used a PayPal Top Up Card and those were all deactivated at the beginning of the month.
> 
> I really feel sorry for Sony, though... Hackers have been terrible with the PS3 ever since it first came out. Sony gives OtherOS, hackers try to crack it wide open and force Sony to take it away to protect the system.



And that's where I stopped reading. Why even talk about something you clearly know nothing about?

God, I always wondered why anti-piracy smear campaigns weren't going away ("This game is cancelled because of pirates! This system sucks because of pirates! Don't let your pirate friends use your 3DS or it'll get bricked! We're removing OtherOS because of pirates!") when they were all so easy to see through. Like, there's no way someone genuinely believed Sony removed OtherOS because of security concerns, no freaking way... but I guess I was wrong. Some people really are naive enough to fall for that.

Seriously, read a book. Introduce basic economic principles into your life. Be conscious of the truth behind what people are telling you. Uninformed, complacent, naive and stupid consumers are all just tools for corporations to sway public opinion and maximize profits. Nowadays all it takes is a couple buzzwords and you're in hook, line and sinker. Sad, really.


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## Anakir (Apr 27, 2011)

Didn't bother reading 9 pages.

Sony should have seen this coming. The people who hacked the ps3 have already stated that the customer's credit card information may be easily accessed and the hackers proved their point. Sony didn't bother listening and decided to go after them; believe me, I understand they're trying to protect their product but you can obviously tell that Sony does not care much about the customers unless we look like dollar signs to them.

Learn your lesson, Sony. Don't make your customers angry.


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## antwill (Apr 27, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> FAST6191 said:
> 
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Source.


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## Rydian (Apr 27, 2011)

The only hack I'm aware of was the one released after OtherOS.


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## godreborn (Apr 27, 2011)

perhaps, the hacker(s) breached psn security to show everyone how bad the security of the ps3 really was.  personally, I think they need to clean house at sony by getting rid of the entire ps3 engineering staff and ceo's responsible for some many PR blunders such as Jack Tretton.


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## gifi4 (Apr 27, 2011)

FUCK! I don't know what to tell my dad, he used his credit card on my account once to buy Scott Pilgrim, I deleted the details off my account so is it safe or do I have to tell him to cancel the card?


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## TheLostSabre (Apr 27, 2011)

omgitsmisha said:
			
		

> Wintrale said:
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People are gullible and cooperation exploits that to their advantages. That's 101 for them, not so much to the general populace. Wonder when the general populace will ever catch on to this...

Mmm give them a few decades, centuries, or dare I say millennium?


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## antwill (Apr 27, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> The only hack I'm aware of was the one released after OtherOS.


I'm not quite sure I remember it correctly but I remember he originally made one that would tap into the hypervisor or something in the OtherOS and posted the video for proof on youtube and told everyone they needed OtherOS installed to use it.


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## Snailface (Apr 27, 2011)

Lol, this is hilarious and sums things up quite nicely:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/DrF...thComputers.gif
(For slow internet connections: it's a 9MB gif!)


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## ecko (Apr 27, 2011)

a great example(the 2nd one actually) by a big company why security through obscurity doesn't work.


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## ultimate.fake.ac (Apr 27, 2011)

Tales will be sung
for generation to come
of the woe and war
which Sony has done.



			
				gifi4 said:
			
		

> FUCK! I don't know what to tell my dad, he used his credit card on my account once to buy Scott Pilgrim, I deleted the details off my account so is it safe or do I have to tell him to cancel the card?


Just tell him the situation matter of fact and let him decide what to do. Better yet you could point at one of the numerous news reports that have been released.

I would cancel my card if I ever used it on the psn. Cancelling a credit cards is no big deal, everything is streamlined. Tell your bank you want it cancelled, they ask why then say alright, then you get a new card in the mail about a week later.

EDIT: If there is even a chance that one of my credit cards is compromised I just get a new one, then I can sleep a lot easier at night.


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## Princess Rozalin (Apr 27, 2011)

Ok I know everyone is saying about credit card information being stolen but have you guys checked about what The Moderator at PSX-Scene has said?

"Ok, I've seen a bunch of speculation of why people think PSN is down, and I thought I should just post what the community knows in comparison to what Sony is telling everyone. The truth is, there was a new CFW (custom firmware) released known as Rebug (http://rebug.me ). It essentially turns a retail console into a dev console (not 
fully, but gives you a lot of the same options that usually dev's only have access to). Anyway, this new CFW was quickly figured out by 3rd parties (not Rebug) to give CFW users access to the PSN network again via the dev networks. With a little manipulation of the URL's through a proxy server you could get your hacked console back online. Not that big of a deal, right? Well, it also turns out that some people over at NGU found out that you could provide fake CC# info and the authenticity of the information was never checked as you were on Sony's private developer PSN network (essentially a network that Sony trusted). What happened next was extreme piracy of PSN content. Sony realizing the issue here shut down the network. Now, before you go freaking out about the latest information posted about Kotaku, no ones personal information was accessible via this hack. Not to say they couldn't get it, but no one is admitting to it being available. Anyway, that's the real reason for the PSN downtime. Sony is now rebuilding all of it's PSN servers to be more secure and (hopefully) make sure the CFW users cannot get online anymore.

Edit #1: To those of you saying that this is speculation, you are correct. But, it is speculation based on a lot of facts and the outcome seems to make the most sense.

Rebug was released on 3/31/11.

First guides of how to use the dev network to get back on COD games on 4/3/11.

Word of NGU users finding a way to pirate PSN content via the dev networks on 4/7/11 (basing this on posts I had to delete on the website. Update: Users have pointed out to me that these posts existed on NGU as of 4/2/11).

PSN goes down on 4/20/11

Now, you can believe Sony's PR team which has kept you completely in the dark, or you can see the list of events above and come to your own conclusion. Now, this isn't the first time Sony has fought back against the PS3 modders from getting on PSN. A couple of months ago we had a utility called f*ckPSN that changed the necessary header information that was being sent to Sony to allow modified consoles back online. We were able to use it for about a month. Then came the new TOS, the mass e-mail to PS3 customers, and software update 3.56 and 3.60. So, once again, yes this is all speculation, but it is speculation based on previous actions and known facts.

Edit #2: Mathieulh just mentioned that he has been in contact with someone that has official access to the SCE devnet servers and it was posted to them today that only 3.60+ debug firmwares will be allowed on the dev network anymore. All earlier versions will be cut. If you want to retain your access you need to contact Sony and upgrade to 3.60 debug firmware.

Edit #3: Ok, it looks like some various news sites have picked up this story and taken it out of context. Once again, this is all speculation and information gathered from various devs in the PS3 scene. It might very well not be the real reason PSN is down, but as the timeline fits, it's a reasonable explanation. Now, as to Rebug directly allowing this to happen, that's not the case at all. Different CFW's have had access to the dev network the whole time. This is not new news for people in the PS3 scene. It's what people have figured out what to do with the said network that has caused all the recent issues. Saying that Rebug is what did this is like saying a gun manufacturer is responsible for every death that happens with a gun.
'
Edit #4: Looks like Sony is finally admitting that people have been able to get into their network and users personal info has possibly be compromised. See: Official Sony Blog  for the latest update"

From: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/gx...necom_the_real/

EDIT: Not saying I don't believe this but it's a possibility


----------



## Snailface (Apr 27, 2011)

This story is really going mainstream, it's now on CNN's front page.


----------



## jaxxster (Apr 27, 2011)

Also this happened beween the 16th-19th April. shame its take sony nearly 2 weeks to come clean. Also how the hell did sony not figure out automatically that someone was downloading a HUGE amount of data from thier servers!?


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## TheLostSabre (Apr 27, 2011)

jaxxster said:
			
		

> Also this happened beween the 16th-19th April. shame its take sony nearly 2 weeks to come clean. Also how the hell did sony not figure out automatically that someone was downloading a HUGE amount of data from thier servers!?



Keeping face is a must for cooperation though I see no point in it since it further shows they value themselves more than their customers. Secrets aren't meant to be secret for long, you dig?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





With their lax security, it's no wonder why they didn't find out their servers were compromised until it already happened.


----------



## jaxxster (Apr 27, 2011)

Just goes to show Sony really dont have a clue when it comes to Security or Public Relations. 

I wonder how much thier PSN user base will drop by after this!


----------



## Fluto (Apr 27, 2011)

On Aussies Channel Ten News.
got some details wrong, but i cant remember wat


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## Miss Panda (Apr 27, 2011)

jaxxster said:
			
		

> Also this happened beween the 16th-19th April. shame its take sony nearly 2 weeks to come clean. Also how the hell did sony not figure out automatically that someone was downloading a HUGE amount of data from thier servers!?


According to German news sources earlier today they knew but kept their mouth shut. Which means they willingly put their users at risk by not informing people straight away. Can you say lawsuit?


----------



## jaxxster (Apr 27, 2011)

Plus they also kept a log of your TV, ps3 model, usb devices attached. This is beyond a fuck up

Isnt it some consumer law stating that as soon as personal info is comprimised customers must be informed straight away?


----------



## TheLostSabre (Apr 27, 2011)

But big cooperation don't need to follow teh rulez! With teh power they attain, they can bend teh rules teh way they see fit!


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## Miss Panda (Apr 27, 2011)

jaxxster said:
			
		

> Plus they also kept a log of your TV, ps3 model, usb devices attached. This is beyond a fuck up
> 
> *Isnt it some consumer law stating that as soon as personal info is comprimised customers must be informed straight away?*In 2009 the EU was going to update and enforce uniform rules across EU states regarding privacy laws. This was the proposed clause that would be relevant here.
> QUOTEIn the case of a personal data breach, the provider of publicly available electronic
> ...


I cannot find out if this was implemented. It would seem not.

http://www.privacylaws.com/Documents/data_..._conference.pdf


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## ultimate.fake.ac (Apr 27, 2011)

jaxxster said:
			
		

> Plus they also kept a log of your TV, ps3 model, usb devices attached. This is beyond a fuck up
> 
> Isnt it some consumer law stating that as soon as personal info is comprimised customers must be informed straight away?


This isn't what is in the news, so unfortunately only a small few will know about this. I'm not surprised about this in the least though. I'm glad I chose to not buy sony products.


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## Miss Panda (Apr 27, 2011)

The relevant section of the law for EU ers is 
Article 17 of Directive 95/46/EC it would appear (and I'm willing to be corrected here) that the duty to notify was discussed at EU level but never incorporated into Article 17.
It was decided that each EU countries Data Protection Authority (they are required to have one) gets to police their own country.

In other words Sony may get away with this. Surely this has to prompt a change in the law. Too late for Sony's victims mind you.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/privacy/index_en.htm
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/priva...ukingdom_en.pdf
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAll...amp;language=EN


----------



## Satangel (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, I don't even want to know how much more secure the next PlayStation will be and how much it will cost. This is a mistake they won't make twice.


----------



## ultimate.fake.ac (Apr 27, 2011)

Thought I would look up some of the bigwigs of Sony just to be a little more informed, I thought some of the comments Jack Tretton President and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment of America had to say were quite humorous:


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> Jack Tretton is known for making a number of controversial comments, which detractors claim are belittling and uninformed, including referring to the Wii as a "lollipop" and the Xbox 360 an "unreliable cook."[5] Most recently, in touting Sony's upcoming portable gaming device (currently dubbed the NGP), Tretton noted that the competing Nintendo 3DS provides a "Game Boy experience", claiming adults would not want to be seen using one.
> "Our view of the 'Game Boy experience' is that it's a great babysitting tool, something young kids do on airplanes, but no self-respecting twenty-something is going to be sitting on an airplane with one of those," Tretton said. "He's too old for that."


from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Tretton

Looks like Howard Stringer has the biggest wig of them all though.


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## exentro (Apr 27, 2011)

Satangel said:
			
		

> Well, I don't even want to know how much more secure the next PlayStation will be and how much it will cost. This is a mistake they won't make twice.



It's a mistake that should have never happened. You don't store personal user information carelessly. It'll take more than a "we're sorry" this time.


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## leeday100196 (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't care how badly the PSN is affected, as long as it gets back up stronger than before. I'm patient. Heck, this was just the break I needed to get more better cars in Split/Second before going online. I'm not about to PAY for online anyway, so I would not DARE think about getting an XBox just because PSN spends a few days down. I pity the impatient that can't last more than a few days without their CoD (or other addictive game) online service. They need to grow up.


----------



## overlord00 (Apr 27, 2011)

best thing i heard all day


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## Miss Panda (Apr 27, 2011)

The worst thing about this apart from Sony's inexcusable delay in warning it's users. Is that Anon have stated that they are not responsible. They had promised vengeance for Sony's lawsuit against George Hotz. At least if it was Anon we could (I think) be fairly assured that the credit card data would not be misused.

But as it stands those banking details are not safe. And just because no one touches your account in the next month does not make it safe. If six months down the line your banking details are misused it wouldn't be the first time  banking detail thieves have waited. 

Lulling people and the banks themselves into a false sense of security by waiting before going in for the kill just when you think you are in the clear is a known tactic.


----------



## Zorua (Apr 27, 2011)

Wow, this is bad for people who had stored credit card numbers on their PS3.
Doesn't really make a difference for me because I never entered any personal info.
Sony should give everyone a free game/ free playstation plus subscription to compensate for the lost time and data.
Being the greedy giant they are, I don't think they would give away anything.

EDIT: Is pix down?


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## leeday100196 (Apr 27, 2011)

Zorua said:
			
		

> Wow, this is bad for people who had stored credit card numbers on their PS3.
> Doesn't really make a difference for me because I never entered any personal info.
> Sony should give everyone a free game/ free playstation plus subscription to compensate for the lost time and data.
> Being the greedy giant they are, I don't think they would give away anything.
> ...


If this happens, let's hope thhey don't put a value on it, I'll grab the next BLOPS map pack free!


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## jonesman99 (Apr 27, 2011)

I took time out of writing a 20 page paper just to comment on this... Even though I have and use an XBox 360 with XBL, this is sad... but funny at the same time.

Its sad because innocent people are getting caught up in this, the issue is with the corporate office, not the users.

On the other hand, its funny because this is getting Sony to address all the security issues they have been avoiding since the beginning.

But still, something has gotta give. Does this little situation effect PSN users worldwide or just in America?


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## Miss Panda (Apr 27, 2011)

jonesman99 said:
			
		

> Does this little situation effect PSN users worldwide or just in America?


Worldwide


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## exentro (Apr 27, 2011)

Here in Belgium it's the same. Local newspapers even put it on their website front page.


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## luminalace (Apr 27, 2011)

I still don't understand why Credit card numbers need to be stored on PS3 and X-Box 360!  It's a pain to re-enter credit card details when purchasing stuff on Wii but at least the information disappears when the power is off.

I am kinda pissed off but fortunately changed credit cards recently and did not update my PS3.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

This is why you use PSN cards not credit cards, it's going to suck for Japanese users more since they tend to wire their credit cards onto the network more than US users.  Never used a credit card (since I'm from the US using a JP account and used PSN cards), so CC is safe.


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## SnAQ (Apr 27, 2011)

So Sony relies on the PS3 to be safe enough so they skipped any security on the PSN... That seems fair for as long as the PS3 wasnt hacked.

But shouldn´t Sony have done something about the nonexistant security on the PSN when the PS3 was hacked?
That´s it for me, i´ll pass on future Sony products. (I know you dont care)


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

SnAQ said:
			
		

> So Sony relies on the PS3 to be safe enough so they skipped any security on the PSN... That seems fair for as long as the PS3 wasnt hacked.
> 
> But shouldn´t Sony have done something about the nonexistant security on the PSN when the PS3 was hacked?
> That´s it for me, i´ll pass on future Sony products. (I know you dont care)



or you just not go online, try some Japanese games, the majority of them have no infrastructure online and good 1 player modes, they still in the local MP age.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 27, 2011)

@luminalace if it was just on the console it would not be half as bad- this appears to be someone accessing it all from Sony's servers.
There is (or appears to be) the secondary issue of it not being encrypted properly when transferred around but that is not so much the issue right now- there might have been something along the lines of using a PS3 as a trusted platform as part of the hack or perfecting the hack there/using info gleaned from the PS3 but that is speculation at this point.

Re firing their engineers- and do what replace them with a bunch of grad students that will do the same thing? There is something to be learned from an experience as painful as this.

Also PSN fraudulent purchases- I take it the ability to run PSN content similar to some of the stuff on the 360 (JTAG and the like- download as per usual rom/iso type methods and install on system) never happened. Granted the lack of any scene releases like it tends to attest to it not being the case but I thought I would ask anyway.


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## Joe88 (Apr 27, 2011)

jaxxster said:
			
		

> Plus they also kept a log of your TV, ps3 model, usb devices attached. This is beyond a fuck up


do you really care if they know your TV?
HDMI transmits a TV id when it does a handshake
im pretty sure microsoft does the same thing, they even asked me what my TV model was on dashboard beta signups

the ps3 model
isnt that dam obvious already? of course they are gonna log your ps3 model for error reporting purposes
im pretty sure every system does this

and the USB
your computer is logging this stuff all the time, I cant see how this is any different
especially after the jailbreak fiasco


welcome to the digital age, nothing is private anymore


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## Maz7006 (Apr 27, 2011)

im not usually the pessimistic type, but if i lost all the stuff purchased in my private account then seriously sony have to find a damn good copensation or a way to see what each account has bought or some log shit i dunno

then again i neer used CC #'s with PSN nor my real name .


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## DrOctapu (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm pretty pissed. Sony really, really fucked up and is probably going to lose a lot of customers from this, plus someone's probably going to try to sue. 
There seems to be some profanity on the wiki page.


Spoiler


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Apr 27, 2011)

What a way to "come clean".


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

Anyone suspect an inside job in this (directly or indirectly)?


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## 10_0ARMY (Apr 27, 2011)

I hope the rebuild makes psn more secure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW is psn back up yet?


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

10_0ARMY said:
			
		

> I hope the rebuild makes psn more secure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope, closed indefinitely.


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## cwstjdenobs (Apr 27, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> and the USB
> your computer is logging this stuff all the time, I cant see how this is any different
> especially after the jailbreak fiasco



Ok, but on the PC *I know there are logs and I'm the one in control* and can even turn the logging off, and aren't only told about the data collection after shit goes wrong. Also whenever it tries to "phone home" it lets me know and even asks if it can send the logs, and lets me see what's in them. After an opt-in. Even on Windows.


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## ultimate.fake.ac (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

> Anyone suspect an inside job in this (directly or indirectly)?


I wouldn't rule out the possibility. It would be very likely that in a large corp like sony their would be individuals not particularly happy with how things are being handled.


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## BlueStar (Apr 27, 2011)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/DrF...eyGotAtSony.gif


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## RupeeClock (Apr 27, 2011)

*PSN data leak cost could top $24 billion - Report*
*Data-research firm tells Forbes price tag of PlayStation Network outage could be catastrophic; Sony offers FAQ, timeline as UK gov't readies enquiries. *

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6310436.html

[youtube]NwYUY-Y-vYw[/youtube]


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## coolness (Apr 27, 2011)

thanks to geohot everyone can lose there creditcard data have a nice day


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## Fudge (Apr 27, 2011)

Does this effect PSP PSN?


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## NiGHtS (Apr 27, 2011)

Should I get a new debit card...? Like completely cancel my old one and request a new one?


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## BlueStar (Apr 27, 2011)

coolness said:
			
		

> thanks to geohot everyone can lose there creditcard data have a nice day



Thanks to Sony not bothering to encrypt anything and just assuming that because only the PS3 can access the service and the PS3 was "unhackable" that it didn't need to bother and security through obscurity was enough.  You really think if some kid in his bedroom hadn't done this that organised criminals wouldn't have?


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## coolness (Apr 27, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> coolness said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yea ok but still the ps3 was the best nicest system i ever seen geothot have hacked it and sinds that time hackers are also attacking innocent people and thanks to the hackers ps3 have been a mess and people cannot play COD and kill people online -_-


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## OmegaVesko (Apr 27, 2011)

Exactly how is this Geohot's fault? Sony are the ones who _assumed_ the PS3 is unhackable, so they sent credit card data using EFFING PLAIN TEXT.

Come on, if Geohot hadn't hacked it, _someone_ would've done it eventually.


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## Snailface (Apr 27, 2011)

Lol, there's an article that quotes a research firm, the Ponemon Institute (not a typo), as saying this security breach could cost consumers about $24 _billion_ (not a typo). This is Forbes, so I guess it's legit.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/04/26/...ng_8436469.html


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Sony egged all the hackers on. And when you don't encrypt personal data, and you do that, you're to blame just as much as the hackers.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

coolness said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe this will make CoD less mainstream and overrated.  *Hooray!*

Anyway, it was Sony's choice to not encrypt their crap, and while Geohot may be the indirect cause, it is directly Sony's fault.


----------



## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

Live also has a hacking problem (MW2 only)

http://support.xbox.com/en-gb/Pages/xbox-l...x?wa=wsignin1.0


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## BlueStar (Apr 27, 2011)

Messaging people with phishing mails in a game isn't really in the same league though, is it?  It's a pretty unavoidable consequence of being able to interact with other players that people could send "Hai, I'm from this game's support staff, please to confirm ur CC number kekeke." and quite easily automate the process.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

> Live also has a hacking problem (MW2 only)
> 
> http://support.xbox.com/en-gb/Pages/xbox-l...x?wa=wsignin1.0



That's ridiculously old. All CoD games are terrible games for security. They're hacked to no end and they don't get fixed.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Hop2089 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



serious lolz


----------



## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Hop2089 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, that's what they get for milking their series so much.  Seriously, I wouldn't mind if CoD 8 were original, but 5-7 just didn't add enough and they screamed "Generic Online FPS" and "Mainstream Fodder"


----------



## imz (Apr 27, 2011)

Everyone with a PS3 should sue Sony


----------



## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

imz said:
			
		

> Everyone with a PS3 should sue Sony



That's what California did this morning, the topic is already posted.

Edit: goofed on location


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## DrOctapu (Apr 27, 2011)

coolness said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does anyone else notice that every single person blaming this on Geohot plays Call of Duty? Food for thought.


----------



## Joe88 (Apr 27, 2011)

technically this whole chain of events was his fault, he is at the root of it


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> technically this whole chain of events was his fault, he is at the root of it



Doesn't mean he's the one we should be crucifying.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> technically this whole chain of events was his fault, he is at the root of it


Well if we're gonna be technical, it's Sony's fault for making it easy enough for Geohot to hack.


----------



## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Joe88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Plus it not like he is the one doing the data stealing. 

(That would be something...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> technically this whole chain of events was his fault, he is at the root of it



While youre at it, blame the inventor of the Rice Cooker. If it had never been invented, Sony would have no initial product to sell, thus Sony would have never existed. The inventor of the Rice Cooker is the root of it.

Get real.


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## coolness (Apr 27, 2011)

why is there no poll to see is people are thinking if its sony there fault or geohot
i think its geohot his fault for hacking the ps3 and now people cannot play normal games online and there creditcards are maybe hacked now


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

coolness said:
			
		

> why is there no poll to see is people are thinking if its sony there fault or geohot
> i think its geohot his fault for hacking the ps3 and now people cannot play normal games online and there creditcards are maybe hacked now


Because if we add a poll there will only be more trolling and flaming, and I hate flaming trolls.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Joe88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now, that's just stupid.

Using that logic,
It's Nintendo's fault that the DS and Wii got hacked
It's Microsoft's fault that the 360 got hacked
It's Apple's fault that the iPhone got hacked

Why don't we just sue all of them?
After all, it's their fault that they got hacked


----------



## coolness (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Na if the hackers dont hack than there is no one to give fault to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





@machomuu aah okey then


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well it's true if we're talking technical.  I know it's stupid, that's why I usually don't use logic that technical.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

Sure is circular reasoning in here.


----------



## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Sure is circular reasoning in here.


It's simple:
Joe posts -> I respond using Joe's logic
I prefer to think of it as a line.


----------



## BlueStar (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You don't see the difference between failing to stop someone from pirating their games and failing to protect the personal data of their users, which they are bound to protect by law, by doing something as utterly stupid and unprofessional as keeping them unencrypted, violating a multitude of laws across the globe including data protection services?

That's why they're being sued.  You leave your car at a valet and instead of driving it to a garage and locking it up, they drive it to the ghetto and leave it unlocked with the windows open.  When it gets stolen, you wouldn't be annoyed at them, just the people who stole it?

Funny to see that the Champions League game Real Madrid vs Barcelona is sponsored by Playstation and Mastercard. 
Thanks to one, someone has the other.


----------



## loco365 (Apr 28, 2011)

Seeing as I have a PSN Account that I never use, I got an email, just now. I'll share it as it don't have any personal data:


Spoiler



Add [email protected] to your address book 

=================================== 

PlayStationÂNetwork

=================================== 

Valued PlayStation Network/Qriocity Customer:

We have discovered that between April 17 and April 19, 2011, 
certain PlayStation Network and Qriocity service user account 
information was compromised in connection with an illegal and 
unauthorized intrusion into our network. In response to this 
intrusion, we have:

1) Temporarily turned off PlayStation Network and Qriocity services;

2) Engaged an outside, recognized security firm to conduct a 
full and complete investigation into what happened; and

3) Quickly taken steps to enhance security and strengthen our 
network infrastructure by rebuilding our system to provide you 
with greater protection of your personal information. 

We greatly appreciate your patience, understanding and goodwill 
as we do whatever it takes to resolve these issues as quickly 
and efficiently as practicable.

Although we are still investigating the details of this incident, 
we believe that an unauthorized person has obtained the following 
information that you provided: name, address (city, state/province, 
zip or postal code), country, email address, birthdate, PlayStation 
Network/Qriocity password, login, password security answers, and handle/PSN 
online ID. It is also possible that your profile data may have been obtained, 
including purchase history and billing address (city, state/province, zip 
or postal code). If you have authorized a sub-account for your dependent, 
the same data with respect to your dependent may have been obtained. 
While there is no evidence that credit card data was taken at this time, 
we cannot rule out the possibility. If you have provided your credit card 
data through PlayStation Network or Qriocity, out of an abundance of caution 
we are advising that your credit card number (excluding security code) and 
expiration date may also have been obtained.

For your security, we encourage you to be especially aware of email, 
telephone, and postal mail scams that ask for personal or sensitive 
information. Sony will not contact you in any way, including by email, 
asking for your credit card number, social security, tax identification 
or similar number or other personally identifiable information. If you 
are asked for this information, you can be confident Sony is not the 
entity asking. When the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services are 
fully restored, we strongly recommend that you log on and change your 
password. Additionally, if you use your PlayStation Network or Qriocity 
user name or password for other unrelated services or accounts, we 
strongly recommend that you change them as well. 

To protect against possible identity theft or other financial loss, 
we encourage you to remain vigilant, to review your account statements 
and to monitor your credit or similar types of reports. 

We thank you for your patience as we complete our investigation of 
this incident, and we regret any inconvenience. Our teams are working 
around the clock on this, and services will be restored as soon as 
possible. Sony takes information protection very seriously and will 
continue to work to ensure that additional measures are taken to 
protect personally identifiable information. Providing quality and 
secure entertainment services to our customers is our utmost priority. 
Please contact us at 1-800-345-7669 should you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,

Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Network Entertainment

===================================

Cher utilisateur du PlayStation Network et des services Qriocity:

Nous avons découvert qu'entre le 17 et le 19 avril 2011, certaines 
informations provenant des comptes PlayStation Network et des services 
Qriocity ont été compromises suite à une intrusion illégale et non 
autorisée dans notre système. En conséquence nous avons dû:

1) Arrêter temporairement les services PlayStation Network et les services Qriocity; 

2) Engager une société extérieure reconnue dans la sécurité pour mener une enquête 
complète sur ce qu'il s'est passé; 

3) Améliorer notre sécurité rapidement et renforcer nos infrastructures réseaux 
en reconstruisant notre système avec une protection accrue des données personnelles. 

Nous vous remercions de votre patience alors que nous travaillons dur pour résoudre 
ces difficultés. 

Alors que nous enquêtons sur les détails de cet incident, nous pensons 
qu'une personne non autorisée a eu accès aux informations que vous nous 
avez transmises: nom, adresse (ville, état, code postal), pays, adresse email, 
date de naissance, logins et mots de passe du PlayStation Network et des 
services Qriocity, et PSN ID. Il est aussi possible que vos informations 
de profil aient été touchées, incluant l'historique de vos achats et l'adresse 
de facturation (ville, état, code postal) ainsi que la réponse a votre question 
de sécurité pour votre mot de passe. Si vous possédez des comptes secondaires, 
les mêmes données sont concernées. Si vous avez fourni vos données de carte 
bancaire au travers du PlayStation Network ou des services Qriocity, il est 
prudent de vous avertir que votre numéro de carte bancaire (excluant le code 
de sécurité) et sa date d'expiration sont concernés. Il n’y a pas de preuve 
d’obtention des données de cartes de crédit mais nous ne pouvons pas écarter 
cette possibilité.

Pour votre sécurité, nous vous encourageons à être vigilant au sujet 
d'emails, appels téléphoniques, et courriers postaux qui pourraient 
demander des informations personnelles. Sony ne vous contactera d'aucune 
façon, incluant les emails, en vous demandant vos numéros bancaires, 
de sécurité sociale, ou d'autres numéros ou informations d'identification 
personnelle. Si l'on vous demande ces informations, soyez sûr que cette 
demande ne provient pas de Sony. De plus si vous utilisez les mêmes noms 
d'utilisateur et mot de passe pour des services non liés au PlayStation 
Network ou aux services Qriocity, nous vous recommandons fortement de les 
changer. Quand le PlayStation Network et les services Qriocity seront réactivés, 
nous vous recommandons également de changer vos identifiants.

Pour se protéger contre de possibles vols d'identité ou des pertes financières, 
nous vous encourageons à rester vigilant sur l'évolution de vos données de compte, 
votre crédit ou toutes autres données.

Nous vous remercions de votre patience pendant l'investigation de cet incident, 
et nous regrettons la gêne occasionnée. Nos équipes travaillent sans relâche 
sur ce problème, et nos services seront de retour dès que possible.

Sony prend la question de la protection des informations très au sérieux 
et continuera à travailler afin que des mesures additionnelles soient 
prises pour protéger les informations personnelles. Fournir des services 
de loisirs de qualité et sécurisés pour nos utilisateurs restent notre 
priorité. Merci de nous contacter sur 1-800-345-7669 si vous avez d'autres questions.

Sincèrement,

Sony Network Entertainment et Sony Computer Entertainment


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## matt382 (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't think this attack has anything to do with the war between hackers and Sony, I mean ultimatly it's the PSN users who get their credit card details stolen that are the victims here. I just think this attack was to steal details, rather than to attack Sony.


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## cwstjdenobs (Apr 28, 2011)

matt382 said:
			
		

> I don't think this attack has anything to do with the war between hackers and Sony, I mean ultimatly it's the PSN users who get their credit card details stolen that are the victims here. I just think this attack was to steal details, rather than to attack Sony.



True, and TBH if people are not just working out how the system works but also doing this they aint hackers, they are fraudsters pure and simple. Fraudsters with some technical know how, but still just cunts. I wish people would learn the various meanings of the word hacker, and notice only people who don't know anything about the culture see this as hacking.


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## Makoto03 (Apr 29, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> MrDiesel said:
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it amazes me to no end how many of you people will blindly defend those douchey hackers despite all the wrong they've done to average ps3 owners, whether it be the inconvience of not having online service or the illegal breaching of their personal security information.

I hope they start making arrests soon. can't imagine why they even let that Geo-Ass free to begin with.


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## KingVamp (Apr 29, 2011)

Because Geohot had nothing to do with this and he didn't break any laws.


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## TheLostSabre (Apr 29, 2011)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

> matt382 said:
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That's what people get if they're uneducated about anything techno-related.


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## Abbafan1972 (May 11, 2011)

Is the Playstation Network back up and running yet?


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## Schlupi (May 11, 2011)

Abbafan1972 said:
			
		

> Is the Playstation Network back up and running yet?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/09/s...-_n_859345.html

WTF... no, it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't believe they are going to take that long. They BETTER fix it in that amount of time...


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## Makoto03 (May 12, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Because Geohot had nothing to do with this and he didn't break any laws.


excuses, excuses...


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## KingVamp (May 12, 2011)

Makoto03 said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
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Say... say what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I guess it be better if he went to jail for no reason.


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## Makoto03 (May 12, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Makoto03 said:
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yes it would. wouldn't lose sleep over one less douchebag on the streets. especially one whose actions indirectly lead to me not being able to play on psn for past 3 weeks.


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## KingVamp (May 12, 2011)

Makoto03 said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
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I didn't understand how it is his fault when there no connection between him and these hackers.

All this could be completely two different groups of hackers and hack methods.


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## Sterling (May 12, 2011)

Makoto03 said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
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Dude, no offense, but you do know how much of a douche bag you sound like right? Geoego had nothing to do with this. Sure he figured out the system, but after that it was only a matter of time that illegitimate fraudsters (with know-how) figured out that Sony was incredibly lax with security. Sony NEEDS to take most of this heat, and receive it's share of Justice. Not only has it been long in coming, but the have blatantly insulted their customers by claiming that, "You will buy it anyway." I swear, brandboys are all blind sheep.


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## KingVamp (May 12, 2011)

Sterling said:
			
		

> "You will buy it anyway."


They said that?

All I remember on the lines is "it not your system" or something like that.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 12, 2011)

Hey, how about we stop talking about Geo*hot*. Seriously. He doesn't have anything to do with this discussion at all. Also, guys, grow up and be mature and just call him Geohot.


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