# Hulk Vs Superman



## ryukyus (Jan 30, 2009)

My brother, and I  we've been arguing for a while now,about who would come out victorious, if Hulk, and Superman were to have a throw down, in my opinion I think Hulk would totally pulverize Superman, reason why 1) Hulk  is a rage machine, the angrier he gets the stronger he gets, don't get me wrong super would give him a good  fight, but Hulk would still come out  victorious.2) Superman  almost got destroyed by doomsday which Hulk could have easily taken down, and in my opinion Doomsday has a fixed strength,and can not get any stronger like Hulk can. So please give me  your educated opinion about who would win, don't just  say something because you like or dislike one of them, I like them both, but I still say Hulk would win.


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## DarkSpace (Jan 30, 2009)

I've read that doomsday just gets stronger every time he's defeated, so if he's defeated by hulk, than he'll just get stronger.


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## Joey Ravn (Jan 30, 2009)

It's been done. _Marvel Vs. DC_. Superman easily defeated Hulk. He's not only stronger, but faster, smarter and has long-ranged attacks, something Hulk lacks.

PS: If you think Hulk could have taken down Doomsday so easily, you don't know Doomsday... Heck, it's obvious you don't know him if you say he has a "fixed strength".


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## UltraMagnus (Jan 30, 2009)

well, the Hulks power increases in proportion to his anger, with no limit, IIRC he even got angry enough to tear a hole in reality once....


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## Toni Plutonij (Jan 31, 2009)

Superman would win because his range of powers is much greater while Hulk has only anger/pure strength on his side!

Only if Hulk has cryptonite with him, then he would defeat Superman, otherwise he stands no chance!


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## VVoltz (Jan 31, 2009)

Problem for Superman is, the more damage Hulk takes the stronger he gets. However I like neither, I hope Batman would kill both.


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## Toni Plutonij (Jan 31, 2009)

VVoltz said:
			
		

> Problem for Superman is, the more damage Hulk takes the stronger he gets. However I like neither, I hope Batman would kill both.


Yeah, but if he gets beaten really hard and fast, he won't have time to get stronger, but will be defeated..
And Batman is actually weakest of them all, he doesn't have any super powers, he just has cool gadgets, but he's the coolest I give you that!


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## imz (Jan 31, 2009)

superman can lift a football stadium, fly up high, then drop it on the Hulk


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## Prime (Jan 31, 2009)

imz said:
			
		

> superman can lift a football stadium, fly up high, then drop it on the Hulk



The Hulk can smash it into two pieces


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## VVoltz (Jan 31, 2009)

Toni Plutonij said:
			
		

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Wanna read a cool fight between Batman and the flying kryptonian?, read Batman Hush, awesome story.
Do you know how many times Hulk and Superham actually fought?, I remember reading the second cross over and the battle between both was pretty lame, Hulk was down by the second page.


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## fateastray (Jan 31, 2009)

Superman could fling Hulk into outerspace, or drag him there, either way, Hulk can't breath in space, Superman can.


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## JoseGabriel (Feb 1, 2009)

I think Hulk. Superman can fly, and has superforce. balh blah..

Hull has more strenght than Superman. Greater body. and could easily take down Superman's flying with those big jumps.


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## layzieyez (Feb 1, 2009)

If I was Superman, I'd just take Hulk's green ass to the surface of the sun and see how he does.  I don't think anger is going to keep him from cooking.


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## fateastray (Feb 1, 2009)

fateastray said:
			
		

> Superman could fling Hulk into outerspace, or drag him there, either way, Hulk can't breath in space, Superman can.



Dammit, last night i dreamt Hulk could fly into outer space. Nvm that..


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## Raestloz (Feb 1, 2009)

Superman can fly to outer space and spray Hulk with Particle cannon wile Hulk can do nothing but increasing his strength while swearing

Result?
Simulation Program A: Battle between hul and Superman

Char A: Superman
HP: 10000
Armor Type: Superman, instant KO from kryptonites
Attacks:
Attack 1: Melee, 500 dps
Attack 2: Ranged(12000, IMBA??) , 250 dps

Strength: 100
Agility: 75
Intelligence: 86

Char B: Hulk
HP: 25000
Armor type: Hulk, increases strength depending on amount of damage taken
Attacks:
Attack1: Rage, 750 dps, flexible number (up to unlimited??)

Strength: 250
Agility: 15
Intelligence: 5

Battle simulation?

Step 1: Superman flies to Outer Space
Step 2: Hulk: DO Nothing
Step 3: Superman: laser, deals damage to Hulk
Step 4: Hulk receives damage, Rage activates, strentgh increases, increasing damage, max HP, and HP regen
Step 5: hulk: target is out of range: do nothing

chorus: 
Step 6: Superman: laser, deals damage to Hulk
Step 7: Hulk receives damage, Rage activates, strentgh increases, increasing damage, max HP, and HP regen, regenerates HP due to high strength point
Step 8: hulk: target is out of range: do nothing
chorus...

And so, the winner is nobody lol


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## Harumy (Feb 1, 2009)

Raestloz said:
			
		

> Superman can fly to outer space and spray Hulk with Particle cannon wile Hulk can do nothing but increasing his strength while swearing
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> Result?
> Simulation Program A: Battle between hul and Superman
> ...




He's right...


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## juggernaut911 (Feb 1, 2009)

Prime said:
			
		

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With his penis.








mthr has his own smiley = 1337


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## falcon64z8 (Feb 2, 2009)

Easy Superman can live forever and he would just out live the Hulk.  Or when Hulk becomes bruce banner he is done.  

Or you could just read the crossover and see how Superman wins!


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## mysticwaterfall (Feb 3, 2009)

As Joey already said, it has already been done in DC vs. Marvel which was like 10 odd years ago. Fans voted on the outcomes and people voted for Supes. Was a good fight though, they destroy the grand canyon in the process. The worst fight in that was Robin vs. Jubilee, that was pathetic.


Edit: Full results, c/p from wiki (winner first):

* Aquaman vs. Namor the Sub-Mariner

* Elektra vs. Catwoman

* Flash vs. Quicksilver

* Robin vs. Jubilee

* Silver Surfer vs. Green Lantern

* Thor vs. Captain Marvel

Fan voted:

* Batman vs. Captain America

* Spider-Man vs. Superboy

* Storm vs. Wonder Woman

* Superman vs. Hulk

* Wolverine vs. Lobo


WW would have beat Storm, since she managed to get Thor's Hammer. She foolishly gave it up though because she didn't think it was fair.


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## Moots (Feb 3, 2009)

Lets look at this from a different angle.

Superman, is an jerk. Least interesting super hero of all time. 

"Look at me I am invincible, well with the exception of some obscure fucking space mineral.

He always wins. He can't lose, he has one weakness. Thats boring as shit. 

Sure he dies, but that was just a ploy because DC realizes that nowadays a character with 1 weakness/flaw just isnt interesting. Especially one as clean cut as superman.

Now the Hulk, I hate him. Atleast he's different though, has issues, is big and green, and rejected by people. And I must say, the new movie really made me like the hulk. 

So Clean Cut douche bag who bores me to tears, or guy i used to hate, but is infinitely more interesting.

I declare hulk the winner. Give him some kryptonite gloves and hed punch that clean cut prick's torso clean from his limbs.

Superman and Batman are the worst super heroes of all time.


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## m3rox (Feb 3, 2009)

Let's look at this realistically.

Superman's only weakness is kryptonite.

Hulk's can actually be beaten via physical damage (Superman rarely takes damage from physical attacks). 

In the latest Hulk movie, the Hulk got his ass kicked and have to have help from the military.

Superman would definitely win in a fight.


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## Hitto (Feb 3, 2009)

Totally Superman. Grabs the hulk, sends him into outerspace, hulk can't breathe, gets angry at void and incapability to move while bring hurled into the next galaxy.
Also, Superman shags BB's wife.


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## mysticwaterfall (Feb 3, 2009)

Technically, Superman has 2 weaknesses: Kryptonite and Magic. Not that it really changes anything.


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## imz (Feb 3, 2009)

Prime said:
			
		

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He won't have time to, superman will fly up and throw it at the speed of light


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 3, 2009)

I haven't read any of the other posts in this topic, but it's a good question. Who WOULD win in a fight, The Hulk, or Superman?

There's one thing you need to know before we get started. Hulk's power is _NOT_ just "The angrier I get, the stronger I get". No, in actuality Hulk's power is reactive/adaptive evolution. What that means is that his body physically evolves to counteract whatever threat he's facing.

So, a few examples: If he's thrown into space or trapped under water his lungs will reform to be able to breath in those situations. If you ripped off his arms and legs they'd grow back stronger and more resistant than before (presumably until he de-Hulks). And of course, if he's not strong enough to face a particular enemy, over the course of the fight he will evolve to be.

Onto the question at hand. Superman and Hulk both have a similar weakness: Magic. There are situations where they can overcome this, but on the whole magic can take them down. It doesn't matter how strong or impervious you are if, say, a warlock steals your soul. But since neither Superman nor Hulk USE magic that's a non-factor.

After careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that it would likely be the Hulk that won. My reasons are as follow: 

*1)* If Superman was fighting the Hulk straight on, it doesn't matter how much Superman pounds him, he'll heal and get stronger (rip off his head, he'll heal). Eventually he would surpass Doomsday level strength due to the reactive evolution. Doomsday, as you may or may not known, killed Superman by beating him to death

*2)* If Hulk reverted to Bruce Banner he could be killed if he wasn't conscious. However if Bruce Banner knows what's happening to him, so would the Hulk side of his personality. Which is why Bruce has never committed suicide. He can't because any time he tries the Hulk side wakes up and he can no longer die.

On the flipside, if Bruce WAS conscious, being a certified genius AND a radiation specialist he'd use Kryptonite to win the fight. All that said, Superman could likely only win if he had Hulk in Bruce Banner form AND unconscious. Which isn't impossible, but in a straight fight Hulk would evolve until he was strong enough to beat Superman.

*In summary:* Whatever you may think of the Hulk, his powers are cheap. He cannot be killed in Hulk form, and he'll constantly evolve until he's powerful enough to take down any enemy. He'll evolve back from death if you can even get him to that point.


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## Raestloz (Feb 4, 2009)

Superman sprays laser to bruce Banner from afar lol, instant KO


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## Deleted member 110780 (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't like Superman. He's way overpowered and is only weak against Kryptonite and magic? Lame. He would win but it doesn't count.

But let's say Thor comes in and busts his kneecaps with Mjollnir. That's how Thor rolls bitches.


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## LivingToDie (Feb 6, 2009)

it would be a draw... and after they are exhausted iron man will come and kill them both


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## Depravo (Feb 6, 2009)

Superman would chop off Hulk arms and legs with his heat vision but the furious Hulk would still demand to fight, rather reminiscent of a certain scene in a certain Monty Python movie.


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## Toni Plutonij (Feb 6, 2009)

Depravo said:
			
		

> Superman would chop off Hulk arms and legs with his heat vision but the furious Hulk would still demand to fight, *rather reminiscent of a certain scene in a certain Monty Python movie.*







I love that scene!









And Ace, are you sure that Hulk can just re-grow parts of his body, and that they would be much stronger?! I didn't know that he's invincible like that?!


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## Cablephish (Feb 6, 2009)

Hey, which Monty Python movie is that?

And more to the point, let's say these 2 heroes don't know anything about each other, it's clear that Superman would win. He might get a little nosebleed, but he's still gonna be the last one standing.


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 6, 2009)

That is incorrect. Superman can be killed by a brute force that's more powerful than him. Hulk can't be killed unless he's Bruce Banner. So if they knew nothing about eachother, none of their weaknesses, in a straight fight hulk would constantly evolve to be stronger until he was capable of beating Superman to death (which has been done before). 

Whereas the Hulk can't be beaten in Hulk form. His power to evolve constantly means he has a healing factor that's more powerful than even that of Wolverine. The Hulk could and HAS literally healed back from being a skeleton.


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## Joey Ravn (Feb 6, 2009)

Ace Gunman said:
			
		

> That is incorrect. Superman can be killed by a brute force that's more powerful than him. Hulk can't be killed unless he's Bruce Banner. So if they knew nothing about eachother, none of their weaknesses, in a straight fight hulk would constantly evolve to be stronger until he was capable of beating Superman to death (which has been done before).
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> Whereas the Hulk can't be beaten in Hulk form. His power to evolve constantly means he has a healing factor that's more powerful than even that of Wolverine. The Hulk could and HAS literally healed back from being a skeleton.



But Superman can move at the speed of sound. Hulk will have a really rough time landing a punch if Superman fights at his best. Besides, Hulk is all about raw power, while Superman has the advantage of long-ranged powers and, above all, fighting tactics. He could grab Hulk from behind and, in a matter of seconds, he'd be outside Earth. He could throw Hulk to outer space and then the green biggie would have nothing to do. Will he evolve space flying abilities? Even being able to breathe in outer space, he would wonder aimlessly across the universe. Besides, if we'll base this argument on what has been done, Superman has already beaten Hulk, twice at least. And if Superman is the pre-Man of Steel version, there's nothing he could not do.


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 6, 2009)

Joey Ravn said:
			
		

> But Superman can move at the speed of sound. Hulk will have a really rough time landing a punch if Superman fights at his best. Besides, Hulk is all about raw power, while Superman has the advantage of long-ranged powers and, above all, fighting tactics. He could grab Hulk from behind and, in a matter of seconds, he'd be outside Earth. He could throw Hulk to outer space and then the green biggie would have nothing to do. Besides, if we'll base this argument on what has been done, Superman has already beaten Hulk, twice at least. And if Superman is the pre-Man of Steel version, there's nothing he could not do.


Well that's an interesting point. It depends what the outcome of the fight is. If we're saying who would win in a fight to the death, it would be Hulk. But if it's purely defensive, an regular superhero fight, then Superman could just, as you said, throw him into space and have him float around.

One must keep in mind though that if he did throw him into space Hulk would be able to breath, and would eventually re-enter Earth's orbit. And, if recent stories are any indication, he'd be pissed and hunt Superman down (See: World War Hulk).

So yes, in fight to the death, no "I'll drop him off in space and run away" tactics; a full out brawl. No running, no hiding, no avoiding... the Hulk would win. In a defensive regular superhero fight Superman would win as he could throw him into space, the phantom zone, etc. 

One must keep in mind however that Hulk always comes back. Dr. Strange trapped him in the Astral plain... he came back. He went to Asgard... he came back. They shot him into another part of the universe... he came back. So in that sort of fight, as long as Hulk could come back it may never actually be over. There'd just be long lulls in between. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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As for their previous fights, we can't really count older incarnations of Hulk or Superman. Way back when they had those fights Hulk's power hadn't been written as reactive/adaptive evolution yet, and Superman was in his god-like power phase until DC decided to make his abilities a little bit more modest.

*EDIT:* And yes, eventually he likely would evolve the ability to fly in space. When you fight him he gets stronger, when he's not intelligent enough to deal with a situation he gets smarter, when you kill him he comes back. And on top of that he has multiple other forms such as Devil Hulk:






These are formed by his subconscious mind, so it can be argued that not only is his power reactive evolution, but also, on some level, shape shifting. Not in the Mystique sort of way, more in that he can manifest in a near endless level of forms that are only limited by his subconscious mind and ability to evolve.


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## Joey Ravn (Feb 6, 2009)

Yeah, Ace is right: this discussion is based on pure speculation. In the end, as fictional characters and landmarks on the history of comics books, they are immortal in their own ways. But still...


Batman > All.


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## cosmo2389 (Feb 6, 2009)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Problem for Superman is, the more damage Hulk takes the stronger he gets. However I like neither, I hope Batman would kill both.



Seconded!

I think that with the right equipment, Batman could defeat them all... 

Let's see, Kryptonite to take down Superman, a couple of highly concentrated tranquilizers to take down the Hulk (remember, Batman is a chemist, he could make his own if he had to) and as for Spiderman, I think Batman could defeat him in an old fashion beat down, let's face it, Spiderman is pretty puny.

So I think Batman FTW! Lol!


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 6, 2009)

Joey Ravn said:
			
		

> Yeah, Ace is right: this discussion is based on pure speculation. In the end, as fictional characters and landmarks on the history of comics books, they are immortal in their own ways. But still...
> 
> 
> Batman > All.


That's true, Batman could take them all... at once!


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## jaxxster (Feb 6, 2009)

batman is a shit superhero.


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## WildWon (Feb 6, 2009)

Pfft. Iceman wins. Isn't he the "most powerful mutant" or something like that? Untapped high levels of power? 

Nah, really Hulk Vs Supes. Hulk wins. Superman has one MAJOR drawback. Yes, hes super powered, but that helps against normal "earthly" things, because they don't have powers. Put him against a Kryptonian, and its close. Put him against other high-powered enemies, and its close. How many times has he been thrown around? Smashed? Left bloody on the floor as a villain walks away? More times than i can count. He gets lucky.

Hulk is one with growing powers. Also, Hulk isn't the complete retard as he once was. Banner has a bit more hold on whats going on. (mind you, this is all 3rd hand info. I don't read the comics myself, anymore (stupid not having time or money for htem), but i'm involved in convos ALL the time... hell, 3 friends host a comicbook podcast heh, so i'm not 100% on my info, but i think i'm pretty damned close)

I think it'd be a close battle, but as Hulk gets more powerful, Supes would have a tougher and tougher time fighting him.

But, you don't have to take my word for it! *Buh dum bum!*


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## Tanas (Feb 6, 2009)

Superman could cheat and just burp the Hulk into space.


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 6, 2009)

Didnt you guys notice ? He only comment once and there are 3 pages now. Obvious, he decide not to say anything because it does make a sense which some of you mentioned Superman would outsmart Hulk. I guess ryukyus was wrong.


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## WildWon (Feb 6, 2009)

RockmanForte said:
			
		

> Didnt you guys notice ? He only comment once and there are 3 pages now. Obvious, he decide not to say anything because it does make a sense which some of you mentioned Superman would outsmart Hulk. I guess ryukyus was wrong.



Check 3 posts up for my last post. I don't think he WOULD outsmart Hulk.

We need to get some comic writers in here to discuss this. ...hmm... i wonder if i could talk to a few and see what they'd say.

I smell a project!


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## Raestloz (Feb 7, 2009)

So in conlcusion: 

1. Wild, stupid, brainless, full of rage battle
Condition: No defensive stance, all-out attacks are to be taken in full

Winner: Hulk
Reason: Not even a Superman can withstand the punch of the mighty Hulk, since his pucnh wil only make Hulk stronger. If he evolves to Hyperman, then maybe something can be done

2. Tactical, full of brain, boring battle
Condition: Using tactics is not a must, but doing so will give you advantage

Winner: Superman

eason: Superman can go to outerspace, now even the ever-evolving Hulk can't escape Black Hole. Hulk can't catch the light, and light can't escape Black Hole. If he evolves into Black Hole itself, then maybe something can be done


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## SirSweeps (Feb 7, 2009)

I Don't believe that the majority rule here has gone along with Super ... And for those of you who don't know Superman has two weaknesses ... Kryptonite and Magic (as outlined by his confrontations with Myxlplyx and blatantly stated in MK V. DC)...
And in a fight with Hulk ... that all depends on which hulk your talking about... The Original hulk... yeah superman would best him but the most recent iteration of the Hulk, not even close.. 
Not only does the post "World War" Hulk contain a better intellect but thanks to his time on Planet Sakaar has also learned how to fight (both hand to hand and with weapons)
So simply put the Hulk would hands down Destroy Superman ...

And for those of you who claim that Superman Can breath in space ... sorry, your wrong! Not a single issue of Superman ever eludes to that fact (and if you can find it ... Prove it!). But they both have giant lung capacity and with such can go without breathing for a long time.

Now A list of powers for you (Using the actual comics for a reference):

Shared powers-

Super Strength: 
Both the Hulk as well as Superman have super human strength (but given that the Hulks Strength is rage based this basically allows him limitless strength so the point goes to the Hulk)

Super metabolisms and body chemistry: 
Both the Hulk and Superman are able to go long periods without having to eat (Superman in particular is almost able to sustain himself on pure sunlight alone).
Both can hold their breaths for an extended amount of time. 
Now the most important thing to take into account here is their individual (to use a Marvel term) Healing factor... Superman has proven to recover from almost any mortal wound inflicted on him but as stated in various comics takes quite a bit of time if not in direct sunlight (Specifically Earth's yellow sun) whereas the Hulk can recover from almost any sort of damage instantaneously regardless of where he is... I do believe Hulk also has the upper hand here, so another point to Hulk.

Resistance to extreme temperatures and the Vacuum of space:
Both have this and as far as I can tell are Pretty equal ... as there is no definite winner no point will be given.

And that pretty much ends the similarities (and come to think of it, Hulks powers) 

So all thats left is Superman specific powers

Flight:
It has been shown that Superman can fly right up to the lower stratus without much trouble but once he hits the outer stratus has the added strain of extreme cold, the simple need to breath and the Vacuum of space  (for the record the Hulk at base power is able to jump to heights nearing the upper stratus and for those of you who think Superman could simply fling him from space toward Earth and kill him sorry again ... the Hulk is able to with stand a fall from the upper stratus without much trouble "and applying what we know about terminal velocity that simply means it wont work"
So advantage Superman, bottom line "Does it matter?"  If Superman can stay away from Hulk then yeah it helps ... but you have to take into account that although he is "Super" he is only a kryptonian and there for gets tired where as the Hulk doesn't ...
all that being said, I can't honestly give a point to anyone here as it gives Superman an advantage but in a true fight to the death it wouldn't really matter...

Super freeze/power breath: 
Ok so its cold, and able to blow buses around ... In this fight does it matter ... NO, the Hulk can take extreme temperatures and can withstand sonic blasts (without budging) way stronger then anything Superman can breath out ... So, bottom line its a nuisance but will never really do any damage to the Hulk...  again no point given as it would play no real roll in a the battle...

X-ray vision: 
Well I guess Superman could use it to spot Hulk coming while he cowers behind a building or something  (provided its not made of lead) ... so advantage Superman but I can't give a point to Superman because he has never really used this power in any major fight he has been in ...

Heat vision: 
I guess it would sting the Hulk but isn't really that powerful to do any real damage to him or even push him back  (like say a blast from cyclops or a sentinel for that matter) and it loses strength when used from a distance... so again a nuisance but wouldn't really matter ...

Super speed:
Well it helps ... If running away ...


So the Bottom line is Hulk 2 ... Superman 0

and to please all those crying about Superman's tactical fighting style (I can hear you now) "he could just keep away from him (flying or running) to avoid getting hit and then strike while the Hulk tries to catch up  (or run around him and catch him from behind) and use his little laser beam eyes or blow on him" Boo Hoo sorry ... you have to remember even Superman has his limits (all that would do is prolong the fight) eventually he would get tired and have to face Hulk head on and there he cannot win.

Long story short the Hulk wins because he is a mutant with (precieved) limitless power ... as stated before the more damage he sustains the stronger he gets not to mention his healing factor and Superman's inevitable tiring simply makes this fight almost one sided ...
Superman dies pummeled to death by The Hulk...


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## Raestloz (Feb 7, 2009)

Super Strength: does that mean Superman can throw Hulk to outer space?

A head-on fight is surely impossible for Superman, the only way to beat Hulk is by using cheap tactics. Flinging Hulk to Mars is enough to indirectly beat him. hulk may as well be alive, but he won't be able to jump high enough to get back to earth, where the tournament is held.

That being said, once the count reaches 10, Superman is standing, and Hulk is nowhere to be found lol


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## SirSweeps (Feb 7, 2009)

Raestloz said:
			
		

> but he won't be able to jump high enough to get back to earth



Now you have a point ... If Superman was able to get him to Mars quick enough at the beginning of the fight 
"the Hulk at base power is almost able to jump into orbit"


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## Raestloz (Feb 7, 2009)

Getting back to earth is no easy task, it takes days for a rocket (which is faster than Hulk's jumping speed) to get to Mars, if Hulk can go back to earth from the Moon it might be possible, but getting back to Earth from Mars is something not easy to do. Superman might be able to get to Mars thanks to his speed, but our lovely Hulk can barely match his speed, let a meteor impede him on his way and he might get to Saturn rather than earth


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## Hehe Moo (Feb 7, 2009)

Superman > Hulk

Superman can fly. He has his breath... he has super speed, he has his x-ray vision eyes, his super hearing, as well has his heat vision.

Hulk... no match. Superman's only weakness is Kryptonite... which Hulk also lacks.


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## SirSweeps (Feb 7, 2009)

Raestloz I like you ... lol you seem to enjoy comics as much as I do and thus far have been the only one aside from Ace to make me rethink my position ... Raestloz v. SirSweeps Draw ... I still say it would never be that easy to get rid of hulk tho I doubt Superman could even take Red Hulk


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## jufasi (Feb 7, 2009)

HULK SMASH-Enough Said


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 7, 2009)

*SirSweeps 1:* The overall picture and outcome over your scenario is fairly spot-on. If I may make one correction though. Hulk isn't a mutant. He's mutated, yes, but not a born mutant. In Marvel continuity characters that gain their powers from and outside external element rather than being born with an X-gene are called "genetic mutates".


*SirSweeps 2:* Batman can beat any opponent, it's part of the benefit of being a genius, rich enough to come up with anything he needs to take someone down, master of most forms of martial arts, and the world's greatest detective. And I'm not trying to hype up Batman, those are his actual abilities. Much like Hulk, writers have wrote him cheaply.

There have been stories where Batman has had to taken down the entire Justice League. Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, you name it. He took them all down... at once. He has a contingency plan for all outcomes. It may be off-topic, but yes, Batman could beat them all because he fights with his mind rather than some sort of super power.


*Raestloz:* You make some good points as well. I never considered Hulk being able to jump from planet, to asteroid, to moon, etc to come back from another planet. I'm still not completely sure it could be done, but with the right objects in space combined with his adaptive evolution it might just be possible.

One thing we need to take off the table is this idea of Superman throwing Hulk into space though. That's not really a "fight", nor is that the end of the fight. Eventually Hulk would return with a vengeance. If anything that sort of tactic is purely defensive and I believe it's more akin to running away or hiding than actually facing the threat.


*Hehe Moo:* You inadvertently nulled your own statement. _Hulk... no match. Superman's only weakness is Kryptonite... which Hulk also lacks._ That's a good thing. It means Hulk doesn't have the same weakness. Actually, in point of fact Kryptonite would make the Hulk _stronger_. Hulk, being a radiation-based mutation actually absorbs radiation. It only makes him stronger.


*Overall:* The conclusion most of us have reached by now is that in a offensive fight, Hulk wins as Superman can be physically beaten (Doomsday has beaten him to death, Darkseid has beat him to a bloody pulp, etc etc) whereas the Hulk is ageless and invulnerable while in Hulk form Superman is not if an opponent is powerful enough (and Hulk never stops getting more powerful).

In a defensive fight Superman can delay the inevitable over and over again by throwing him into space, locking him in the Phantom Zone, etc, but it's not a "victory". It's also not very Superman-like to simply run away. So I don't believe we should count that sort of outcome.

Finally there's a battle of wits. This one is probably the most interesting. If both Superman and Hulk were aware of eachother's weaknesses the outcome is a draw. It could go either way. Hulk/Bruce Banner could take Superman down with kryptonite (especially being a radiation specialist). 

And Superman could take Hulk down if he was in Banner form and unconscious or if he figured out that if you gas Hulk he temporarily reverts to Banner form and passes out. The gassing doesn't work long term as the reactive evolution adapts to it, and it takes a notoriously large amount to do so, but it's possible for a short period of time.

For the record, both of them could be defeated by a power inhibitor (be it in collar form, cage form, or what have you).  If you could get it on them/get them in it, of course.

*Conclusion:* Offensive fight = Hulk. Defensive fight = Superman. Battle of wits = Draw.


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## SirSweeps (Feb 7, 2009)

Correction Bruce Banner was born a mutant thanks to his fathers genetic manipulation of himself (if only meaning that he has a few things extra that regular humans don't) ... tho he has no perceived powers (and specifically to your remark about the x-gene, nowhere in marvel history has it been stated that he does not have it ... plus he has come up during during the time when Xavier used cerebro and nearly killed all mutants) ...   his latent abilities are what manifested themselves as the Hulk (its been said that Bruce is believed to have a sort of Mutant Adaptive ability which is what allows Bruce in Hulk form to change height and appearance when faced with stronger adversity)... (Much like the stipulation that Captain America was also a Mutant prior to having received the super soldier serum)


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 7, 2009)

Being born with abilities doesn't make you a mutant. If that was the case all of the Inhumans, Eternals, etc would be mutants.  In Marvel continuity mutant applies to only those born with the x-gene, which Bruce Banner does not have. What he is is a genetic mutate.

A genetic mutate is a mutation of the genes that's not caused by the evolutionary x-gene. The x-gene is a completely natural occurrence. Being born with powers doesn't make you a mutant, it just makes you the child of a genetic mutate who passed their externally altered genes on to their offspring.

In reality any human or creature of a species that differs from the norm is a mutant. However in 616 Marvel continuity this term applies exclusively to those with the X-gene by birth. For more information on genetic mutates see here: here and here.


On your second point about how Hulk hasn't been confirmed as a mutant, well, this could apply to anyone. Daredevil, Moon Knight, Giant-Man. You name it. The absence of confirmation doesn't prove that he's a mutant. 

In fact, in this case the absence of confirmation absolutely proves that he isn't. After the House of M and decimation of mutant-kind all of the mutants were catalogued. There are now somewhere between 200 and 300 mutants. 198 was the arbitrary number they assigned before they knew all of the remaining mutants "around 300" is the number the government officially came to, and several have died since then.


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## SirSweeps (Feb 7, 2009)

Ace, I step down from this topic in awe of your knowledge and hope that someday in some convention we can meet and discuss all matters Marvel as you seem to be as well read (if not more) then I am ... it would be intriguing to know your out look on matters such as which was Galactus strongest Herald or how would cloak and dagger be if their powers had matured normally ...


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## ball2012003 (Feb 7, 2009)

superman would definitely win
the hulk is no match


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## Ace Gunman (Feb 7, 2009)

SirSweeps said:
			
		

> Ace, I step down from this topic in awe of your knowledge and hope that someday in some convention we can meet and discuss all matters Marvel as you seem to be as well read (if not more) then I am ... it would be intriguing to know your out look on matters such as which was Galactus strongest Herald or how would cloak and dagger be if their powers had matured normally ...


High praise, as you seem equally well-read. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I love a good discussion about comic material. Hence why I've posted so frequently in this topic. Alas, if only there were more topics of this sort. Anywho, I suppose I should be steering this back on topic, you and I sort of digressed, SirSweeps.


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## Raestloz (Feb 8, 2009)

Ace Gunman said:
			
		

> *Raestloz:* You make some good points as well. I never considered Hulk being able to jump from planet, to asteroid, to moon, etc to come back from another planet. I'm still not completely sure it could be done, but with the right objects in space combined with his adaptive evolution it might just be possible.
> 
> One thing we need to take off the table is this idea of Superman throwing Hulk into space though. That's not really a "fight", nor is that the end of the fight. Eventually Hulk would return with a vengeance. If anything that sort of tactic is purely defensive and I believe it's more akin to running away or hiding than actually facing the threat.



Yes, that's true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




However, in battle, it's not all about the last one standing, it's the last one remaining. "If you can't kill it, then remove it!" Trying to kill Modern Hulk is one heck of an imposibillity, no one can deny that fact. Better off with the second idea then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Kinda like "If you can't destroy an in-flight missile, then redirect it to somewhere else"


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## Joey Ravn (Feb 8, 2009)

jufasi said:
			
		

> HULK SMASH-Enough Said



Damn, this guy knows what he's talking about!


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