# Corruption In Games Journalism, or "Five Guys Burgers and Fries"



## Gahars (Aug 19, 2014)

Just when you didn't think games journalism couldn't sink any lower... well, hold on tight.



http://imgur.com/a/4VOcx
https://i.imgur.com/NYEgyLe.png
http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/
http://kc-vidya-rants.tumblr.com/po...nns-kotaku-staff-cheating-scandal-and-how-she

TL;DR: News has come to light regarding Zoe Quinn, an indie developer. While in a relationship, she slept with at least five men (journalists for Kotaku, RockPaperShotgun, as well as fellow game devs) in exchange for promotion of her and her game. Any news of this or criticism of her and her actions is actively being suppressed.


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## ComeTurismO (Aug 19, 2014)

Don't you mean “TL;DW”?


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## Gahars (Aug 19, 2014)

ComeTurismO said:


> Don't you mean “TL;DW”?


 

No.


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## ComeTurismO (Aug 19, 2014)

Gahars said:


> No.


But, the video is the only thing there, other than the sourcé and štùff yõu said äbovë?


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## Gahars (Aug 19, 2014)

Bioware joins the fray:


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 19, 2014)

This thread made me hungry, so after I grab some burgers and fries for lunch I'll read through everything in depth.


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Aug 19, 2014)

Just came here to see if this was posted. Saw the thread on Reddit. EVERYTHING is getting deleted. The amount of censorship on different sites is just astounding. People are even getting banned on 4Chan of all places for discussing it.

Reddit thread in question: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/

/r/gaming is imploding: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dzrwf/what_the_hell_is_going_on_serious/ 

http://i.imgur.com/1fdvlxz.png[5]


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## ComeTurismO (Aug 19, 2014)

Quietlyawesome94 said:


> Just came here to see if this was posted. Saw the thread on Reddit. EVERYTHING is getting deleted. The amount of censorship on different sites is just astounding. People are even getting banned on 4Chan of all places for discussing it.
> 
> Reddit thread in question: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/
> 
> ...


Seems like internet world war 1 is coming


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Aug 19, 2014)

ComeTurismO said:


> Seems like internet world war 1 is coming


 

Pretty much. I'm loving every second of it too, I wonder where this will go.


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## raulpica (Aug 19, 2014)

Quietlyawesome94 said:


> Just came here to see if this was posted. Saw the thread on Reddit. EVERYTHING is getting deleted. The amount of censorship on different sites is just astounding. People are even getting banned on 4Chan of all places for discussing it.
> 
> Reddit thread in question: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/
> 
> ...


Really? I wonder what the heck reddit cares about Zoe Quinn?

And 4chan protecting a female "gamer/programmer" from the insults of its members? What's the world coming to?


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## Gahars (Aug 19, 2014)

Quietlyawesome94 said:


> Just came here to see if this was posted. Saw the thread on Reddit. EVERYTHING is getting deleted. The amount of censorship on different sites is just astounding. People are even getting banned on 4Chan of all places for discussing it.
> 
> Reddit thread in question: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/
> 
> ...


 








Spoiler: Karma










 


Spoiler: THE FIRE RISES



It seems that another person has been implicated, and there's rumblings that a writer from Forbes may have been involved as well.


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 19, 2014)

It's up to seven guys now? How many are actually confirmed?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2014)

Fortunately I don't give enough fucks _(no fucks, actually)_ about Indies to be affected by this in any shape or form.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 19, 2014)

What, she didn't offer to fuck any of us hard working Temper Reporters???

0/10.


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## Gahars (Aug 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Fortunately I don't give enough fucks _(no fucks, actually)_ about Indies to be affected by this in any shape or form.


 

Considering that games journalism as a whole is implicated here, it extends beyond indies. Zoe Quinn, as awful as she is, isn't even the main problem here. The problem is that this sort of practice of underhanded favors is allowed to continue in games journalism.

"Well, games journalism is shit. It's always been shit. Who cares?"

I mean, I don't disagree, but we're talking about major publications with millions of readers. We're talking about publications with pull and influence on developers and publishers. That power has been used to promote and attack games/series, and it's all too obvious that there are no ethical standards in place whatsoever. Ignore the indies and the personal drama, that has to be a little concerning.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Considering that games journalism as a whole is implicated here, it extends beyond indies. Zoe Quinn, as awful as she is, isn't even the main problem here. The problem is that this sort of practice of underhanded favors is allowed to continue in games journalism.
> 
> "Well, games journalism is shit. It's always been shit. Who cares?"
> 
> I mean, I don't disagree, but we're talking about major publications with millions of readers. We're talking about publications with pull and influence on developers and publishers. That power has been used to promote and attack games/series, and it's all too obvious that there are no ethical standards in place whatsoever. Ignore the indies and the personal drama, that has to be a little concerning.


Here's the thing. So-called _"real journalism"_ has long since been sectioned into reliable sources of news _(Reuters, for instance)_ and _non-reliable_ sources of news, such as _Chat! Magazine_. Video game journalism is yet to be sectioned along these lines, so that we have a clear distinction between what's a _The Times_ equivalent and what's a _The Sun_ equivalent. Anywho, if someone lacks journalistic integrity, said person should be ostracized by the readers/viewers and the industry alike and removed from the _"trust circle"_ - it's as simple as that. Stop visiting content created by those affected by the journalistic leprosy and they'll _have_ to leave, like it or not, as they will become expendable.


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## Sterling (Aug 19, 2014)

Isn't this a serious discussion topic?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Isn't this a serious discussion topic?


Five _(or more!)_ weiners pickled in one bun is anything but serious, it has passed the point at which it can be treated as anything other than a circus act.


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## Sterling (Aug 19, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Five _(or more!)_ weiners pickled in one bun is anything but serious, it has passed the point at which it can be treated as anything other than a circus act.


 
I see. Well we can still have discussion in the EoF anyway, circus act or not.


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## CompassNorth (Aug 20, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Zoe Quinn, as awful as she is, isn't even the main problem here.


You're right, clearly the focus here is that gamers hate women.


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## BORTZ (Aug 20, 2014)

In other news, I hate Five Guys lol


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## Gahars (Aug 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Here's the thing. So-called _"real journalism"_ has long since been sectioned into reliable sources of news _(Reuters, for instance)_ and _non-reliable_ sources of news, such as _Chat! Magazine_. Video game journalism is yet to be sectioned along these lines, so that we have a clear distinction between what's a _The Times_ equivalent and what's a _The Sun_ equivalent. Anywho, if someone lacks journalistic integrity, said person should be ostracized by the readers/viewers and the industry alike and removed from the _"trust circle"_ - it's as simple as that. Stop visiting content created by those affected by the journalistic leprosy and they'll _have_ to leave, like it or not, as they will become expendable.


 
That's all well and true - which is what makes news like this so important. It's a clear, appalling example of where games journalism stands, the kind that would motivate even casual observers to take action and/or demand changes.

The more people are aware of what's been going on, the more effective the reaction will be.



Sterling said:


> Isn't this a serious discussion topic?


 
I posted here for a few reasons. First, a lot of the subject matter isn't exactly "family friendly." A lot of what's available is dirt, and it's coming out an extremely fast pace, which means there is room for error; it's easier to track all of it in the EoF. As more comes to light, or if a huge new development breaks out, that might be posted elsewhere as well.

Also, more people seem to visit and participate in the EoF as compared to the GGD, so there's that.



CompassNorth said:


> You're right, clearly the focus here is that gamers hate women.


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## ComeTurismO (Aug 20, 2014)

Seems like someone will get herpes..


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## Pleng (Aug 20, 2014)

Is she fit?


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## Sterling (Aug 20, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Also, more people seem to visit and participate in the EoF as compared to the GGD, so there's that.


 
This sounds kinda ironic for some reason, but I think you're right lol.


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## Gahars (Aug 20, 2014)

The Sess wants to mess.


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## Qtis (Aug 20, 2014)

Reddit just got very personal.

This shit is absurd on so many levels. Instead of moderating, the mods of r/gaming just set automatic moderation on whole threads, admins are banning whole subreddits, discussion relating to the matter is being deleted.. Holy shit.

The personal attention one person is getting (banging reporters or not, it's partially irrelevant in the aftermath) on Reddit and other sites versus free speech is sad. If discussion forums are being suppressed at this level and doxxing has been irrelevant on 4chan and Reddit before, why the sudden change? Hopefully this gets done with, the people responsible on all sides doing something questionable being dealt with accordingly and new guidelines for gaming news sites, hell even Reddit. 

Ps would not give favourable journalism for banging. If someone expected something from sex, it should be mentioned in the article. All freebies should be mentioned in any case in order to inform the reader of bias


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## Foxi4 (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm surprised Reddit of all places would get nuked because of this. Then again, Reddit is about as moronic as any other social network.


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## Sterling (Aug 20, 2014)

Qtis said:


> Reddit just got very personal.
> 
> This shit is absurd on so many levels. Instead of moderating, the mods of r/gaming just set automatic moderation on whole threads, admins are banning whole subreddits, discussion relating to the matter is being deleted.. Holy shit.
> 
> ...


 
How shit, this sounds like complete crazy. What the hell?


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## Qtis (Aug 20, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm surprised Reddit of all places would get nuked because of this. Then again, Reddit is about as moronic as any other social network.


 
Huehuehue

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/


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## Sterling (Aug 20, 2014)

Qtis said:


> Huehuehue
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2dz0gs/totalbiscuit_discusses_the_state_of_games/


 
Considering he disables all his video's comments, Total Biscuit doesn't seem to have a great grasp on his internet fame in the first place.


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## Qtis (Aug 20, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Considering he disables all his video's comments, Total Biscuit doesn't seem to have a great grasp on his internet fame in the first place.


 
That's not posted by or done by him in any way. That was done by a single r/gaming moderator. It was on automatic moderation with all posts being deleted without a second look


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## Sterling (Aug 20, 2014)

Qtis said:


> That's not posted by or done by him in any way. That was done by a single r/gaming moderator. It was on automatic moderation with all posts being deleted without a second look


 
Oh I gathered that. I guess I should have been a bit more clear on what I was saying.

EDIT: I was more referring to this:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1/?


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## Foxi4 (Aug 20, 2014)

Now, now, Mr.Fish - we all know you don't have any projects whatsoever.


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 20, 2014)

It's high time for Phil Fish to get hit by a bus and never be heard from again. The majority has long since outgrown his manchild antics and moronic sense of humor.


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## Gahars (Aug 20, 2014)

Incompetent ain't the half of it.



Sterling said:


> Considering he disables all his video's comments, Total Biscuit doesn't seem to have a great grasp on his internet fame in the first place.


 

To be fair to him, that's only because of the new Youtube comment system, and he links to his own subreddit for discussion.

Anyway, it's kind of sad watching TotalBiscuit get shit heaped on him for urging caution. Even indie developers who he praised and promoted turned on him for daring to not white knight on Zoe Quinn's side, and they're vicious, too. For fuck's sake, when TotalBiscuit is the one telling you to calm down, you've gone off the deep end.

On the bright side, this whole debacle is serving as a great filter for which people/groups/sites to utterly disregard.

Also, food for thought.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 21, 2014)

Saw various things on this. It did not make it through my wall of indifference but if I can warm my hands/whine extract on some flames, be they flame posts of flames of a burned out site, I am good. I am mainly here to ponder that image just linked. Most of it reads like things you would want but I am not sure about some of them.

"No staff with journalism degrees"
Granted it is not like most of the staff are industry vets or anything (I am not sure most are even ex promoters or anything) so we can not come at it from the equivalent experience angle. However was it not most journalists being nothing but journalists (see also politicians being nothing but career politicos, maybe with a minor sideline in law and recruiters being career recruiters, even if there is some training in the thing they are supposed to be doing in the dim and distant past) that kind of got most news places dismissed for being out of touch? The cynical bastard within wonders if this is a bit of career protectionism at work, think modern equivalent of some of the more fun guilds.

"Always strive for balance and freedom from bias"
The latter is obvious, however balance is an odd one for me. Balance seems to be the giving equal weight to both all sides and given the amount of drivel that causes I am not in such a hurry.

"Always guard against opinion in a news story"
Maybe it is related to me liking to get my news from experts in a field but no thanks. If you want to make it a passive conveyance of information then fine, however if you want to speculate and opine then I see no great issue if it is within your remit.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 21, 2014)

It is actually somewhat against English language norms to _not_ give any opinion on the subject discussed.

The general status quo is to:

Introduce the subject matter in the introduction
Present it in the body
Provide:
A summary
A deduction _(based on the body)_
A comment about how issue may impact the future _(some might call it speculation)_
Additional information for the readers, such as facts, statistics and citations
_Personal opinion_

in the conclusion, preferably a little bit from all of these buckets.

If you are indifferent towards something, you might as well not report about it - indifference creates dry pieces. This is not to say that ranting is encouraged - personal opinions should be limited and contained within the conclusion, but there's no reason why they should be completely excluded from the pieces. This is not an invitation for bias, this is merely an opportunity to comment on given situations.

Imagine the reports with no personal opinions or comments whatsoever: _"Shots were fired in Gaza today, your reporter Sahara McSandmouth out!"_ - well gee whiz, Mrs.McSandmouth, care to tell us the significance of that event or what it means? 'Cause you know, that's a comment, apparently you're not supposed to do that, but it'd be nice.


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## CompassNorth (Aug 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> For fuck's sake, when TotalBiscuit is the one telling you to calm down, you've gone off the deep end.


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## Gahars (Aug 21, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> "No staff with journalism degrees"
> Granted it is not like most of the staff are industry vets or anything (I am not sure most are even ex promoters or anything) so we can not come at it from the equivalent experience angle. However was it not most journalists being nothing but journalists (see also politicians being nothing but career politicos, maybe with a minor sideline in law and recruiters being career recruiters, even if there is some training in the thing they are supposed to be doing in the dim and distant past) that kind of got most news places dismissed for being out of touch? The cynical bastard within wonders if this is a bit of career protectionism at work, think modern equivalent of some of the more fun guilds.


 
Since when was journalists being out of touch the issue?

Protectionism might be at play, I won't deny that, but there's definite merit in having journalists who have extensively studied the practices, history, and ethics of the field. Lawyers might be "out of touch" with the common man's understanding of the law, but when I'm in court, I'd much rather trust the expert than John Q. Public.



FAST6191 said:


> "Always guard against opinion in a news story"
> Maybe it is related to me liking to get my news from experts in a field but no thanks. If you want to make it a passive conveyance of information then fine, however if you want to speculate and opine then I see no great issue if it is within your remit.


 

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with opinion pieces on their own (and note, the rule doesn't forbid opinion pieces so long as they're not presented as news), but they should be distinguished from news reports; it's the blurring the line that people take umbrage with.



Foxi4 said:


> Imagine the reports with no personal opinions or comments whatsoever: _"Shots were fired in Gaza today, your reporter Sahara McSandmouth out!"_ - well gee whiz, Mrs.McSandmouth, care to tell us the significance of that event or what it means? 'Cause you know, that's a comment, apparently you're not supposed to do that, but it'd be nice.


 

Except detailing context and relevant surrounding info isn't really opinion. I mean, you could split hairs about how "subjective" that is, but the point is to strive for objectivity within the realm of human possibility. There's a clear difference between "Shots were fired in Gaza today, signaling an end to the most recent cease fire. The region has been embroiled in conflict since etc. etc." and "Shots were fired in Gaza today, as the fascist Israeli forces continued to wage war against Palestine and basic decency etc. etc."

The issue isn't that these reporters aren't meeting inhuman standards, it's that they have no standards and aren't trying at all.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Except detailing context and relevant surrounding info isn't really opinion. I mean, you could split hairs about how "subjective" that is, but the point is to strive for objectivity within the realm of human possibility. There's a clear difference between "Shots were fired in Gaza today, signaling an end to the most recent cease fire. The region has been embroiled in conflict since etc. etc." and "Shots were fired in Gaza today, as the fascist Israeli forces continued to wage war against Palestine and basic decency etc. etc."
> 
> The issue isn't that these reporters aren't meeting inhuman standards, it's that they have no standards and aren't trying at all.


There's a big difference between providing a mild personal opinion and being blatantly bias to either side of the conflict though. If the aforementioned _"Israeli forces"_ happen to _"open mortar fire on a helpless and unsuspecting village"_, the reporter can safetly say that the attack was _"unprovoked"_ because that's what factually happened - there was a village and it was fired upon for no apparent reason. A reporter could also conclude that _"such horrifying acts"_ happen everyday in the region, thus indirectly saying that he or she finds raining fire and shrapnel on a village without any provocation _"horrifying"_, because that's what it factually is - the military should know better than to randomly fire upon civilian targets.

Journalism is a lot like walking the tightrope - you're on the thin line between the objective and the subjective and you have to provide the news to the people while simultaneously cast judgements without burning either side. There is nothing wrong in condemning an act that is worthy of being condemned.

Of course everything depends on the news piece discussed, really - sometimes an opinion is not required, but a projection is still welcome. Say, for instance, with stockmarket news. _"Stock of Milky Way has gone up by 15% and it is likely to continue increasing according to analysts [citation needed]"_ is a thing. Then again, that's the analyst's opinion, not the reporter's.


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## Gahars (Aug 21, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> There's a big difference between providing a mild personal opinion and being blatantly bias to either side of the conflict though. If the aforementioned _"Israeli forces"_happen to open mortar fire on a village, the reporter can safetly say that the attack was _"unprovoked"_ because that's what factually happened - there was a village and it was fired upon for no apparent reason. A reporter could also conclude that _"such horrifying acts"_ happen everyday in the region, thus indirectly saying that he or she finds raining fire and shrapnel on a village without any provication _"horrifying"_, because that's what it factually is. Journalism is a lot like walking the tightrope - you're on the thin line between the objective and the subjective and you have to provide the news to the people while simultaneously cast judgements without burning either side. There is nothing wrong in condemning an act that is worthy of being condemned.


 
Who's to say it's the journalists job to cast judgement? Ideally, a journalist should provide all the information, all the cold, hard facts, so that the people can judge for themselves. We both agree that there's a tight line to be walked, and perfect objectivity is impossible (of course it is, we're all human), but it's important that journalists still strive to maintain our balance and remain above the fray.

I'm not dismissing the value of opinion entirely here. Like I said, there's definite value in opinion pieces, speculative pieces, etc. However, they're not news and should, ideally, remain wholly separate.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Who's to say it's the journalists job to cast judgement? Ideally, a journalist should provide all the information, all the cold, hard facts, so that the people can judge for themselves. We both agree that there's a tight line to be walked, and perfect objectivity is impossible (of course it is, we're all human), but it's important that journalists still strive to maintain our balance and remain above the fray.
> 
> I'm not dismissing the value of opinion entirely here. Like I said, there's definite value in opinion pieces, speculative pieces, etc. However, they're not news and should, ideally, remain wholly separate.


As I said earlier, everything depends on the particular news item discussed - some require the reporter's opinion to even make sense of whatever occured _(X happened, but give me a perspective of what does that mean to me and should I be mad about it)_, some should only be presented as cold facts. There are opinion pieces _(we were at the event X which we are covering, it: A) Blows and you shouldn't come - you're not missing much or B) Is amazing, you should totes hop in)_ and there are informative pieces _(Little Sally, aged 8 went missing on Street Boulevard Avenue - here is her picture. If you know anything about Little Sally's whereabouts, call the following number)_. Journalism as a whole is a quite big bucket and I'll easily agree that it has to remain unbias. Perhaps my choice of words when it came to _"judgement"_ was a bit too harsh, but certain pieces somewhat require seasoning before serving, otherwise they don't mean anything.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Since when was journalists being out of touch the issue?
> 
> Protectionism might be at play, I won't deny that, but there's definite merit in having journalists who have extensively studied the practices, history, and ethics of the field. Lawyers might be "out of touch" with the common man's understanding of the law, but when I'm in court, I'd much rather trust the expert than John Q. Public.


Being out of touch and potentially spouting drivel is always a potential issue, though some of the rest of that list is vital I would say you can probably still convey useful information in spite of not paying attention to those.
Maybe it is more that I care mainly about science and tech where stories tend to work best if they are actively written by those that might have otherwise done the peer review and a living, breathing sysadmin, programmer or one doing deployment.
There is a place for career journalists, probably even a sizeable one, however I am not sure I would treat it as a field in the same way I would law, medicine, accounting and, depending upon where you are in the world, things like engineering. I am definitely OK with reducing it to an additional skill rather than calling it something most people tend not to dual skill in. However we live in interesting times right now and journalism may end up some kind of protected field, or at least one with something like entry requirements, before too long -- the are bloggers journalists stuff, and related court cases, maybe seeing to some of that.

Potentially relevant at this point


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## raulpica (Aug 21, 2014)

Pleng said:


> Is she fit?


NOOOOOPE

And that just makes the people who banged her even sadder individuals.


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## Gahars (Aug 22, 2014)

Put on your conspiracy hats, everyone! This goes all the way to the top!



Spoiler











 


Spoiler










 
SERPICO!

Also...



Spoiler: Kojima, the mad prophet


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## Phyzoon (Aug 22, 2014)

Came here to see if this was posted. Was not disappointed. Also, this could make the front news, right? Specially the sell-out aspect of Kotaku and Co. since there are only a few websites reporting all this shitstorm, like Gahars said, the more people aware of this bs, the better.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 22, 2014)

raulpica said:


> [is she fit?]
> NOOOOOPE
> 
> And that just makes the people who banged her even sadder individuals.



That is not very nice, maybe she has a nice personality or something.


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## Pleng (Aug 22, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> That is not very nice, maybe she has a nice personality or something.


 
You don't bang a nice personality, not in this kind of deal, anyway.

Geeks desperate enough to give good reviews in exchange for banging an ug... why didn't they just take cash and spend it on a hooker instead?


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## FAST6191 (Aug 22, 2014)

Pleng said:


> Geeks desperate enough to give good reviews in exchange for banging an ug... why didn't they just take cash and spend it on a hooker instead?



If the events described thus far are true it is not like we are dealing with good journalists/terribly logical people.


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## Vipera (Aug 22, 2014)

This should NOT be in EoF. Just sayin'.


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## Flame (Aug 22, 2014)

You didn't fuck her....


You bring shame to your family.

I fucked her...





Twice.



In all seriousness good game.


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## raulpica (Aug 22, 2014)

Flame said:


> You didn't fuck her....
> 
> 
> You bring shame to your family.
> ...


wat


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## AlanJohn (Aug 23, 2014)

I returned to GBAtemp in the midst of this current situation looking for a post made by p1ngpong/raulpica/costello saying something like "Please don't hurt Zoe she's my gf". I am disappointed.
PS: Zoe if you want me to remove this post please PM me thanks.


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## Gahars (Aug 23, 2014)

InternetAristocrat returns.



Also: Operation Chemo

Here's the campaign if you'd like to pitch in.


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## Sterling (Aug 23, 2014)

Parts of 4Chan makes me so proud at times. Vivian James is so fucking cute.


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 23, 2014)

Pleng said:


> You don't bang a nice personality


 

Thanks for that. I needed a good giggle.


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## Subtle Demise (Aug 24, 2014)

CompassNorth said:


> You're right, clearly the focus here is that gamers hate women.


 
 Bitches ain't nothin but tricks and hoes.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 24, 2014)

Subtle Demise said:


> Bitches ain't nothin but tricks and hoes.



You mean the night I spent at young farmers magic appreciation evening was a representative experience?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 24, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Parts of 4Chan makes me so proud at times. Vivian James is so fucking cute.


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## Phyzoon (Aug 24, 2014)

Why aren't we seeing a front page news about this yet? Do gbatemp want to stay out of it? Because I doubt we could say all this crap isn't related to this website somehow.


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## Sterling (Aug 24, 2014)

Phyzoon said:


> Why aren't we seeing a front page news about this yet? Do gbatemp want to stay out of it? Because I doubt we could say all this crap isn't related to this website somehow.


 
I think Ryukokki might be sleeping around with a few staff members and Guild and Gahars. I suppose that it does make it related (if only tangentially related)

EDIT: Tom might be the wildcard in the orgies, I was asked not to reveal more. They have my family.

EDIT2: I now have a burrito bomb threat on my hands. Pray for me.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 24, 2014)

Phyzoon said:


> Why aren't we seeing a front page news about this yet? Do gbatemp want to stay out of it? Because I doubt we could say all this crap isn't related to this website somehow.


 
Because the front page is for significant _gaming/homebrew news_, not about some bitch who slept with a bunch of guys. This isn't TMZ, we don't give a shit. 



Sterling said:


> I think Ryukokki might be sleeping around with a few staff members and Guild and Gahars. I suppose that it does make it related (if only tangentially related)
> 
> EDIT: Tom might be the wildcard in the orgies, I was asked not to reveal more. They have my family.


 
I have no idea to what you are referring, and it's going to stay that way or else


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## Deleted-236924 (Aug 24, 2014)

Subtle Demise said:


> Bitches ain't nothin but tricks and hoes.


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## Veho (Aug 24, 2014)

Operation Chemo has hit a hurdle. 









"Funding a game is abhorrent."


----------



## Sterling (Aug 24, 2014)

Wuuuttttt. No seriously, what kind of shit is this? I can't wait to hear the excuse.


----------



## Veho (Aug 24, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Wuuuttttt. No seriously, what kind of shit is this? I can't wait to hear the excuse.


Someone hacked the campaign account (guessed the password). The campaign is not cancelled. 




> Apparently we have been hacked and silenced. Or more appropriately someone managed to guess our 8 character alpha numeric password. We have taken step to beef up security and will engage with Indiegogo to repair our service. I can not be sure that records have been properly kept for everyone that made a donation but I can’t be sure of this.



http://thefineyoungcapitalists.tumblr.com/post/95626418480/on-the-conspiracy


----------



## Sterling (Aug 24, 2014)

Veho said:


> Someone hacked the campaign account (guessed the password). The campaign is not cancelled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Ahahaha, really?


----------



## Gahars (Aug 24, 2014)

Veho said:


> Operation Chemo has hit a hurdle.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> "Funding a game is abhorrent."


 
"We don't like you "attacking" a woman in "games" development. Therefore, we will prevent you from supporting women in games development."

Well, we already knew that these people never wanted actual progress or advancement, but at least they're being forthright about it now.


----------



## Ryukouki (Aug 25, 2014)

Wat.


----------



## raulpica (Aug 25, 2014)

> to guess our 8 character alpha numeric password


8 characters alphanumeric passwords in 2014? Are they for real? I'd expect more from 4chan.


----------



## Veho (Aug 25, 2014)

raulpica said:


> 8 characters alphanumeric passwords in 2014? Are they for real? I'd expect more from 4chan.


Me too. I mean, "zoequinnsuxlol" is 14 characters   


And now for some objective, unbiased reporting:


----------



## raulpica (Aug 25, 2014)

Veho said:


> And now for some objective, unbiased reporting:


Dear sirs, please ignore the giant elephant in the room.


----------



## Gahars (Aug 27, 2014)

Slightly off topic, but an interesting take on the culture of "hype" in games journalism.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 27, 2014)

raulpica said:


> 8 characters alphanumeric passwords in 2014? Are they for real? I'd expect more from 4chan.


I'm willing to wager that it was "feminism".


----------



## Gahars (Aug 27, 2014)

Actual update time:



Spoiler: Yesh, the fire rises










 
Kotaku, in response to the criticism and backlash, is starting to make some concession. One of the first new policies is that its employees are not allowed to financially support the developers they're supposed to be covering. Seems fair, right?



Spoiler: Oh, the humanity!










 
Tim "The Wallet Chafer" Schafer sicced his fanbase on JonTron for the heinous crime of disagreeing. Then again, he also promotes fellow financial boondoggler "Kickstarter Entrepreneur" Anita Sarkeesian, so I guess the guy's just gotta stick up for his own.



Spoiler: ECH


----------



## Sterling (Aug 29, 2014)

http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witne..._source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow


----------



## Gahars (Aug 29, 2014)

Sterling said:


> http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witne..._source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow


 

Now that's what I call desperation. I guess no one ever told them about "biting the hand that feeds" and all that.

Speaking of "Stupidly lashing out and making yourself look like a chump," Neogaf's been getting pretty ban happy, evidently.



Spoiler: U wut, m8










 
And hey, you know those absurdly high scores and all the praise thrown at Gone Home? Yeah, funny thing about at least one of those reviews...



Spoiler










 
Also, here's an interesting piece on the online abuse and harassment that people have claimed.


----------



## Veho (Aug 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Spoiler: U wut, m8


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 30, 2014)

I have to say that abstracting oneself from the game creator is always hard. I too reviewed a game that was made by a close acquaintance of mine, but I had to forget about that and review it for what it was, and I think I gave it a fair review. It's difficult not to pander to a friend of yours and it's always hard to give constructive criticism, but it's necessary. I almost feel for the reviewers engulfed in all this, but at the same time I can't justify giving a 10/10 just because you know the creator - it's just not constructive at all. Nothing is perfect and poking holes in the product is necessary for the product to improve over time.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Aug 31, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I have to say that abstracting oneself from the game creator is always hard. I too reviewed a game that was made by a close acquaintance of mine, but I had to forget about that and review it for what it was, and I think I gave it a fair review. It's difficult not to pander to a friend of yours and it's always hard to give constructive criticism, but it's necessary. I almost feel for the reviewers engulfed in all this, but at the same time I can't justify giving a 10/10 just because you know the creator - it's just not constructive at all. Nothing is perfect and poking holes in the product is necessary for the product to improve over time.


 

The policy for this though in professional journalism is to either A) disclose your relationship with the person or, and preferably B) pass the story to someone else.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 31, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The policy for this though in professional journalism is to either A) disclose your relationship with the person or, and preferably B) pass the story to someone else.


I've stated very clearly that I know the creator in the introduction and I think I was a relatively fair judge, so hey. Passing the story on to someone else is always a good option since it _"looks better"_ for the viewer/reader, but I guess what really matters is staying true to your own colours rather than sugar-coating just because you know the author and don't want to hurt his/her feelings by criticizing too sharply.


----------



## Gahars (Aug 31, 2014)

Disagree with someone? Make fun of his appearance. This will surely put you on the moral highground.



Spoiler











Boogie is too good for this sinful Earth. Picking on him is crossing a motherfucking line.

And hey, you know that Devin Faraci guy?



Spoiler










"I have more respect for a genocidal militant group (one that also targets women for oppression, rape, and murder) more than people upset over a lack of journalistic integrity."

What an asshole. Of course, the man is nothing but talk, so...

ALSO

The Escapist is buckling down under pressure.



Spoiler: DESHI BASARA DESHI BASARA DESHI BASARA


----------



## Veho (Aug 31, 2014)

Gahars said:


> The Escapist is buckling down under pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: DESHI BASARA DESHI BASARA DESHI BASARA


"We do not believe gamer culture needs to die because non-gamers play video games" HOW FUCKING GRACIOUS OF YOU, YOU SELF-IMPORTANT FUCK 

IT'S DOWNRIGHT MAGNANIMOUS 

I AM HUMBLED BY YOUR GREATNESS


----------



## Gahars (Aug 31, 2014)

New Internet Aristocrat video is up. Get watchin'.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Aug 31, 2014)

Because 60% of the time, feelings outweighs facts. Every time. NOTE TO SELF: _"Stop scrolling down on YouTube Videos" _


----------



## Gahars (Sep 1, 2014)

Spoiler: DESHI DESHI BASARA BASARA DESHI DESHI BASARA BASARA










 
It's not much, but hey, it's something.

EDIT: Since we discussed harassment of Anita Sarkeesian before, I think this is relevant. It just goes to show that this sort of behavior is far from one-sided.

EDIT 2: Holy shit, they're getting desperate now.


----------



## Veho (Sep 4, 2014)

(This image brought to you by the chief editor of vidya.moe, probably.)


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 4, 2014)

Oh no, buzzfeed is not a good news source now?


----------



## CompassNorth (Sep 4, 2014)




----------



## zeello (Sep 4, 2014)

It is a death of an identity, though. It seems harder to ignore that a substantial chunk of gamers are a vile, immature, misogynistic bunch, and that until now we've been sweeping the harassment under the rug. I thought this was journalistic integrity issue, but once that is said and done, would you still want to associate with a group of such sad, despicable people? Would you give these people who send rape threats the satisfaction of being part of a community?


----------



## Gahars (Sep 4, 2014)

Anthony "Left in the Lurch" Burch seems a bit jelly of all the attention he's not getting.






First he's jealous of his sister being more talented and respected than he is, now he's mad at other women in general. When it comes to finding new lows, this guy is a professional miner.



Spoiler: Not super related, but hey, here's a list of women actually involved with games if you're interested













zeello said:


> It is a death of an identity, though. It seems harder to ignore that a substantial chunk of gamers are a vile, immature, misogynistic bunch, and that until now we've been sweeping the harassment under the rug.


 
Kotaku pls.



zeello said:


> I thought this was journalistic integrity issue, but once that is said and done, would you still want to associate with a group of such sad, despicable people? Would you give these people who send rape threats the satisfaction of being part of a community?


 
First, let's get something straight. The people sending those threats are an extreme minority. They do not represent the community as a whole. Saying you don't want to be associated with "Gamers" because of those individuals is like saying you wouldn't want to be associated with white people because of the Ku Klux Klan. (It's also hard to take all of these claims from people like Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn when they have a history of making shit up wholesale (See: Zoe Quinn and Wizardchan), but that's neither here nor there).

Even with the legitimate threats, the fringe on the other side is spewing just as much vile shit, whether it's through doxxing (and then justifying the doxxing, even if the victim is fucking 10 years old) or the standard harassment/bullying/threats (iirc, Jay3dfox or a similar channel shut down after threats for daring to make fun of Anita Sarkeesian, and she wasn't alone). It's not a "gamer" problem, it's an anonymity problem. Anytime people can act anonymously, a select few will abuse that privilege for the hell of it. That's bad, but doesn't reflect on everyone else.

Here's an article well worth reading.





Spoiler










 
And you know, for all the talk of "gamers" being mysoginistic and hating women, they seem to be doing a shit ton more for promoting women in game development than Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and all their ilk have ever accomplished.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 4, 2014)

Back in 2004 Penny Arcade did a comic regarding the "audience + anonymity" thing: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

Sadly this still holds true (I'm told Xbox Live voicechat in CoD is the place to be if one likes being insulted).

If shooting all extremists (and shitlords threatening or wishing someone to die are extremists in my book) wouldn't make me one myself I'd go out and do it (hey, I'm a gamer (and not dead yet), surely I know how to work a gun).


----------



## Gahars (Sep 4, 2014)

Spoiler: WHAT A LOVELY, LOVELY VOICE OF REASON










 
Also, interesting to note: This guy is Moviebob's boss. This guy is also an "anti-Cultural Marxist" libertarian. Bob's already had to apologize for one of his GamerGate Twitter rants, but he keeps posting on the topic regardless. This might get interesting...


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 5, 2014)

Gahars said:


> New Internet Aristocrat video is up. Get watchin'.




He's like the modern day gaming MLK.


----------



## Sterling (Sep 5, 2014)

Vengenceonu said:


> He's like the modern day gaming MLK.


 
I'm sure he would cringe at being compared to the civil right's movement since this is nothing compared to that.


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 5, 2014)

Sterling said:


> I'm sure he would cringe at being compared to the civil right's movement since this is nothing compared to that.


 
I meant more him being "the face" of the gamer's side of Gamer Gate then him being revered as some to look up to/saying what he's doing is just as good as the civil rights activists.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 5, 2014)

Vengenceonu said:


> I meant more him being "the face" of the gamer's side of Gamer Gate then him being revered as some to look up to/saying what he's doing is just as good as the civil rights activists.


 

I think mistakenly comparing this mess to "civil rights" is why this shitstorm is happening in the first place.


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm still confused though about how people expect this to end. One side wants it to go away quietly (while still keeping the publicity they're getting) while the other wants to wipe out corruption via murder akin to Assasains creed?


----------



## Sterling (Sep 5, 2014)

That's a false dichotomy. It's not one or the other. In fact, I'm not sure where you're getting that frankly ridiculous idea that the latter half of the movement wants murder and violent removal.


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 5, 2014)

Sterling said:


> That's a false dichotomy. It's not one or the other. In fact, I'm not sure where you're getting that frankly ridiculous idea that the latter half of the movement wants murder and violent removal.


 
That's an exaggeration on my part But you get what I mean . There's so much mudslinging on both sides (alleged death threats, doxing, fat/slut shaming, underhanded deals etc.) that pretty much guarantees this wont end up smelling like daisies when it reaches its conclusion. Readers distrustful of the gaming press, journalists declaring "Gamers are extinct" and saying gamers don't have to be their audience anymore? I just want to know where this is going because right now it's just a cloud of toxic smoke with no end in sight that no one benefits from.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 5, 2014)

There are idiots on both sides who threaten to "kill" and "rape" (extreme assholes pro gamergate) as well as demand the "white cisscum neckbeards" "go eat a bowl of knives and die" (extreme assholes contra gamergate). But surprise, thats the internet. And it has been this way as long as I can remember (Kids, back when we had CompuServe and Netscape Navigator...). Not saying that this is a good situation, but before this changes we'll get a female pope.

But now that Baldwin and Le Aristocrate have pulled the whole thing to the far right I think I will need more popcorn and predict a segregation (unless the whole "movement" doesn't destroy itself in the process).

Small tangent: does someone happen to know if "you know who" publicly distanced herself from those softcore pics she posed for or if she even tried to get them taken down? Nothing at all wrong with having those taken (heck, I even admire her for that bravery), it just makes my bullshit sense tingle to see everywhere that "her private nude pictures were leaked" (which implies some asshat stole them, especially with the whole fappening bs going on) when she had sold the rights on them to the softcore company in question.


----------



## zeello (Sep 8, 2014)

any new developments?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 8, 2014)

zeello said:


> any new developments?


Kotaku started playing nice, _"they love gamers"_ again, just the _"good gamers"_. Zoe is still considered loose, but nobody cares. No repercussions to any of the parties involved.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 8, 2014)

zeello said:


> any new developments?


 
alleged racketeering: Phill Fish is said to have received funding (for a cut of the profits) from people who have later been judges at IGF and indicade (where Fez won bigtimes).

If that holds true: Oh boy...


edit: link to writeup: http://lordkat.com/igf-and-indiecade-racketeering.html


----------



## Gahars (Sep 8, 2014)

Here's a video regarding the IGF situation/claims:



Here's another, earlier video as well.

Polygon is apparently creating a blacklist for those supporting #GamerGate. CameraLady has another video coming tonight, so I'll be sure to post that here when it's out.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 8, 2014)

So... uhm...

Where do we place bets that the whole Phil Fish situation was artificially-brewed just to get people talking about Polygon to increase the potential selling price? He is selling the company still, right?


----------



## Sterling (Sep 8, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Here's a video regarding the IGF situation/claims: *snip


 
Incoming shitstorm in...


----------



## bkifft (Sep 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> So... uhm...
> 
> Where do we place bets that the whole Phil Fish situation was artificially-brewed just to get people talking about Polygon to increase the potential selling price? He is selling the company still, right?


 
Well, Phillipe Poisson has kind of a reputation for tamper tantrums. So my money is on "No reasonable offer received, so I'll have to keep the company!". Oh, and unless troll he seems to have recreated a twitter account already.

In regards to the blacklist: the polygon headhoncho backpedaled once again ("unbanning right now"). Might be because a few people (pro and con GG) that the banlist contained quite a bunch of non white cis male healthy people.


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 8, 2014)

If anything good came out of this, its that more people realize how shitty Phil Fish's personality is.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 8, 2014)

Reddit information comes to light, or... What Bans May-May Come



> >10:30 "I was told if I released this I would be marked as someone who was helping in the distribution of child pornography on Reddit."
> 
> >>36:30 I know that there is automated code that exists to shadowban users from the website
> 
> ...


 
Ruh roh.

Also...



Spoiler: Feel the wrath of a "Weaponized Minority"











 
*EDIT (1):*

What "feedback" from IGF judges looks like.



Spoiler: Spoiler: It's Fucking Nothing















 
EDIT (2): It Keeps Happening Edition

http://hawpcast.podbean.com/e/keepin-it-real-with-edmund-mcmillen-and-tommy-refenes/

If you don't want to listen (and I can't blame you for that, because it's long and you have to sit through an hour or so of Anthony Burch)...



> TL;DR: Team Meat (of Meat Boy fame) have been participants and judges of IGF. According to them (and even Burch):
> 
> -Everyone has their own agenda and don't follow the set rules
> -The winners are not the best, but the ones who "need it the most".
> ...


----------



## bkifft (Sep 8, 2014)

popcorn time!


edit: and more backpedaling (while IMHO still being condescending): https://archive.today/y5xAe


----------



## Gahars (Sep 8, 2014)

Does the story go deeper? Oh, yeah. It looks like Ouya's involved with some shady shit, too.



Spoiler: Devin Faraci Status: Full recursive










 
If anyone's curious about the effect this has been having on traffic for the involved websites...



Spoiler


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 9, 2014)

USGamer weighs in on #GamerGate by not actually weighing in.

Savvy.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 9, 2014)

What were the equivalent changes last year? That could just as easily be the e3 rush and the drop off before games start coming out in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 9, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> What were the equivalent changes last year? That could just as easily be the e3 rush and the drop off before games start coming out in a couple of weeks.


 

I don't have that, unfortunately, and I'm a bit lazy. To be fair, though, this drop occurred right around both PAX, a popular, major convention, and the release hype for Destiny. Also, if this was really a post-E3 drop, then the drop should've taken place in mid-to-late June, not the end of August.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 9, 2014)

Even though the access graphs would need a year to year comparison: I think it's quite funny that alexa states that women visit 4chan (you know, that misogynistic cesspool) more often than other websites on average.
edit: also nice to see that the second most common search term that leads ppl to 4chan is "4chan b".

btw: Does someone happen to know a political correct version of "sand in his/her vagina?"

edit: shortfatotaku toggled the two yt vids private. C&D? doxxing? aliens?


----------



## Sterling (Sep 9, 2014)

bkifft said:


> btw: Does someone happen to know a political correct version of "sand in his/her vagina?"


 
Sand in xer genitals?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 9, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Sand in xer genitals?


You're disrespectful to all transsexuals in the world - it's not their fault that they have someone else's genitalia! Not only that, think of all the people who don't have genitalia at all! You're disgusting Sterling, such focus on the exterior when it's the interior that matters, xir!


----------



## Sterling (Sep 9, 2014)

Sand usually resides on the interior, it's true.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 9, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Sand usually resides on the interior, it's true.


Let's agree on _"sandy undisclosed, unidentified area"_ then.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 9, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Let's agree on _"sandy undisclosed, unidentified area"_ then.


 
Yeah, whilst this seems to be neither ableistic nor sexist it looses quite a bunch of its meaning, as having sand on the outside  of ones body isn't as itchy as having it on the inside.

oh and back to topic: someone stirred a shitstorm on the own side: ZQ tweeted a link to a blog post which doxxed a minor transgender woman. Oh snap! Screencap of the now deleted tweet http://t.co/xn6V7bPQeQ and a google search result as anti counterfeit measure https://archive.today/hX1Vn


----------



## zeello (Sep 10, 2014)

There is an article saying that gamergate is just a 4chan plot. I don't know whether it's true or not but I've been puzzled as to why this hasn't been brought up here at all.

examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan

mensrightsactivism.com/post/96890478238/this-is-too-simultaneously-pathetic-and-funny

gbatemp please tell me what to think
p.s. maybe I should read the gamergate Wikipedia page if it hasn't been deleted already


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 10, 2014)

zeello said:


> There is an article saying that gamergate is just a 4chan plot. I don't know whether it's true or not but I've been puzzled as to why this hasn't been brought up here at all.
> 
> examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan
> 
> ...


 

The official definition of gamergate before this controversy was this:


> A gamergate is a reproductively viable female worker ant that is able to reproduce with mature males when the colony is lacking a queen.


This is the true Gamergate that no one ever talks about.

As for those articles, I really hate it when websites or media that have no insight or foreknowledge of a topic but they have some breakthrough revelation (Ex. A cooking website writing about sports).


----------



## Gahars (Sep 10, 2014)

zeello said:


> There is an article saying that gamergate is just a 4chan plot. I don't know whether it's true or not but I've been puzzled as to why this hasn't been brought up here at all.
> 
> examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan
> 
> ...


 







I mean, it's a 4chan plot in the sense that people who post on 4chan are involved. It'd be just as accurate to say this is a Twitter plot.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 10, 2014)

Get all the popcorn you can get, we are entering 1984/Illuminati territory: http://pastebin.com/LAmZNVKn . Read it all, it's worth it (disclaimer: haven't fact checked it so take it with a whole shaker of salt).


----------



## FailName (Sep 10, 2014)

Vengenceonu said:


> The official definition of gamergate before this controversy was this:
> 
> This is the true Gamergate that will no one ever talks about.


Where did the term "GamerGate" even come from? When I first read it, I thought it had something to do with GamersGate.


----------



## zeello (Sep 10, 2014)

bkifft said:


> Get all the popcorn you can get, we are entering 1984/Illuminati territory: http://pastebin.com/LAmZNVKn . Read it all, it's worth it (disclaimer: haven't fact checked it so take it with a whole shaker of salt).


 
im not sure I understand any of it but it sounds really boring. Were acting like we're probing high levels of government, but its just indie game bloggers writing papers.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 10, 2014)

*SO.* For anyone who wants to get involved and contribute but isn't quite sure of how, here's a helpful infographic. Just by messaging these sites' sponsors and letting them know that you don't approve of their conduct, you're applying pressure.



Spoiler: Gawker Hypocrisy










 
On Twitter, The Fine Young Capitalists stated that women are better at getting pregnant than men. Seems like a benign statement, right?



Spoiler


----------



## bkifft (Sep 10, 2014)

FailName said:


> Where did the term "GamerGate" even come from? When I first read it, I thought it had something to do with GamersGate.


Adam Baldwin (Platoon, Firefly, Chuck, The last ship) used it and tweeted the two first burgers and fries vids by internet aristocrate.



zeello said:


> im not sure I understand any of it but it sounds really boring. Were acting like we're probing high levels of government, but its just indie game bloggers writing papers.


Well, it is quite boring, it's mostly academics stuff. The really really really compressed tl;dr: a few people crossreference each other to gain academic credibility and (warning, conspiracy theory ahead) seem to have their fingers up the butts of a few media outlets pushing their idea of social justice.

In regards to your prior question (what to think): well, sorry. but you'll have to reach your own conclusions, as all sides in this clusterfuck have multiple agendas. The current baseline of pro #gamergate is: gamingpress disclose every possible conflict of interest when you report and everyone be excellent to each other. Warning: the far right political wing wants to get the pros and instrumentalise this whole situation.
anti-GG seems to have no common agenda besides "go eat a bowel of knives and die".

I will not tell which side I'm on. Just that I've been called a "misogynistic" "basement dwelling" "white cis-male" a few times now. And I wasn't even trolling.


p.s.: Want to get away from all this SJW bullshit? Come to Germany. As I've told my coworkers, friends and family about this only one knew the broader concepts of equalism (edit: , the meaning of "Check your privieges") and social justice. And he just came back from a year in America.

edit: just in case an extra fair warning: I might be a Nazi (genetics n stuff).


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 10, 2014)

Gahars said:


> On Twitter, The Fine Young Capitalists stated that women are better at getting pregnant than men. Seems like a benign statement, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Would this be the wrong moment to bring up statistics?

That said if women are oppressed and they are the majority that might not be such a sound argument... hmm.


----------



## Flame (Sep 11, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I mean, it's a 4chan plot in the sense that people who post on 4chan are involved. It'd be just as accurate to say this is a Twitter plot.


 

if only we had nudes of Brooke Baldwin.


WHAT?!! IM SAYING WHAT EVERYONE IS WANKING!


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Sep 11, 2014)

bkifft said:


> Get all the popcorn you can get, we are entering 1984/Illuminati territory: http://pastebin.com/LAmZNVKn . Read it all, it's worth it (disclaimer: haven't fact checked it so take it with a whole shaker of salt).


 
Yeah I got bored by the first sentence. Maybe you guys take this a little _too _seriously.


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 11, 2014)

Flame said:


> if only we had nudes of Brooke Baldwin.
> 
> 
> WHAT?!! IM SAYING WHAT EVERYONE IS WANKING!


 
not gonna lie I was thinkin that 3 hours ago...


----------



## bkifft (Sep 11, 2014)

soulx said:


> Yeah I got bored by the first sentence. Maybe you guys take this a little _too _seriously.


TBH I don't care that much:
a) does this extreme SJW stuff only seem to happen in the USA. Now and then someone tries to bring up ableism and sexism free language including tons of underscores and asterixes over here, but those get ridiculed and shamed by everyone for it.
and
b) is it common in academics to cross reference each others works if there aren't hat many specialists around.

I'm  mostly in for the ride and enjoyment of drama (hence my call for popcorn). Getting an excuse for being titled pissbabie etc and more transparency would be a nice side bonus, but i can count the times I  was on sites like kotaku, rock paper shotgun or destructoid this year on one hand each, every time just landing on the article I was interested in from google.
Oh: And I'll open a bottle of bubbley if Phillipe Poisson really gets fucked (first figuratively then literally).

And somehow this thing feels like the usual 4chan hoax, just that this time it seems to have gained way more momentum than expected. Maybe its Zeitgeist, maybe it just struck a nerve for enough people. But twitter explodes and every day more and more people convert from anti to pro because the antis just are the louder assholes. I really hope someone does a documentary about this clusterfuck one day, narrated by David Attenborough, Morgan Freeman or Brian Blessed.

tl;dr: have two not racist at all vids by jad3fox moking the anti-#gamergaters:


----------



## Gahars (Sep 11, 2014)

Spoiler: Devin Faraci and co. picked up a new past time: Picking on the wizards










 


Spoiler: FLAWLESS VICTORY














 


bkifft said:


> TBH I don't care that much:
> a) does this extreme SJW stuff only seem to happen in the USA.


 

Sweden and some of the other Nordic countries have gone full cray cray in some respects. Canada has it really bad, too (some of the craziest activists in the US are actually Canucks, so blame Canada for that, too). The remixes are nice, though.


----------



## Veho (Sep 11, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Sweden and some of the other Nordic countries have gone full cray cray in some respects.


Regarding the first link: Debbie Does Dallas passes the Bechdel test. Just something to mull over. 
Regarding the second... 



> Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending *equal* political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women.



Even if the law passed, the activities of the tumblr brigade and the like (having _nothing whatsoever_ to do with equality) would still be a free target for criticism. And mockery.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 11, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Sweden and some of the other Nordic countries have gone full cray cray in some respects. Canada has it really bad, too (some of the craziest activists in the US are actually Canucks, so blame Canada for that, too). The remixes are nice, though.


 
Might be related to the mind boggling taxes on alcohol or the prolonged nights those high up in the north have to suffer. I still believe this type of "We are holier than thou!" type of social reformers will not catch on in Germany, as we now know a thing or two about fascism. (Oh snap! I didn't just compare SJ extremists to the NSDAP, did I?)

Didn't know about the "Big Red" yet, thanks for the link. Always nice to see intellectuals discus such topics.



Veho said:


> Even if the law passed, the activities of the tumblr brigade and the like (having _nothing whatsoever_ to do with equality) would still be a free target for criticism. And mockery.


HOW DARE YOU USE AN ACADEMIC DEFINITION YOU ABLEIST PIG!

Anyway, have another vid everyone. Today we learn that ZQ calls IRC mibbit and a friend of her message in an IRC chan tweets. Typical Apple hipsters.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 11, 2014)

I've learned several things today:

Some people actually treat the Internet seriously
Some people actually care about the current events and think that supporting either side will change the status quo
Twitter, Tumblr and other _"social websites"_ are still cancer
'Aight.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 11, 2014)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-fine-young-capitalists--2#home

Celebrate, gentlemen, for today is the day that the Patriarchy well and truly won.


----------



## Sterling (Sep 11, 2014)

Gahars said:


> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-fine-young-capitalists--2#home
> 
> Celebrate, gentlemen, for today is the day that the Patriarchy well and truly won.


 
I've got the paper plates and cups. We gonna do this?


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 12, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Canada has it really bad, too (some of the craziest activists in the US are actually Canucks, so blame Canada for that, too).



I'm a Canuck and I just wanna say that I don't think this way at all. ;O;


----------



## Gahars (Sep 12, 2014)

Sterling said:


> I've got the paper plates and cups. We gonna do this?


 
I'd recommend some rope to strap yourself down, because the wild ride's nowhere close to done.







Onto some more shenanigans...

So Zoe Quinn/Literally Who claimed that proceeds from her Depression Quest would be donated to iFred, a charity based around suicide prevention. That's all well and dandy... except that iFred says she never once donated anything. Oops.

And now the game's page has been altered to try and cover up the fact.

Picking on the wizards, lying about donating to charity... how low can one person go?



Hyro-Sama said:


> I'm a Canuck and I just wanna say that I don't think this way at all. ;O;


 

Of course not. Most Canadians are too busy with their hockey and their igloos to give a hootenanny.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 12, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Onto some more shenanigans...
> 
> So Zoe Quinn/Literally Who claimed that proceeds from her Depression Quest would be donated to iFred, a charity based around suicide prevention. That's all well and dandy... except that iFred says she never once donated anything. Oops.
> 
> ...


 
Hold your horses there, could all still be a mixup. Also it was changed on the domain landing page between the 20th and 24th:

2014-08-20: iFred https://web.archive.org/web/20140820180647/http:/www.depressionquest.com/

2014-08-24: NSPH https://web.archive.org/web/20140824180435/http://www.depressionquest.com/

Also this is not necessary sinister. Let's just see how this plays out.

edit: As usual: Popcorn time.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 12, 2014)

bkifft said:


> *snip*


 

The iFred reference was still up as of earlier today. There's no need to jump the gun right away, but it's all adding up to some shady looking shenanigans.


----------



## Sterling (Sep 12, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I'd recommend some rope to strap yourself down, but the wild ride's nowhere close to done.


 
Instructions unclear. Got dick stuck in ceiling fan.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 12, 2014)

Gahars said:


> The iFred reference was still up as of earlier today. There's no need to jump the gun right away, but it's all adding up to some shady looking shenanigans.


True, but thats the game page. the home/main/landingpage was changed in the timeframe I stated earlier. So this (different charities) might really be just a fuck up.



Sterling said:


> Instructions unclear. Got dick stuck in ceiling fan.


Thnaks, havent heard that one for quite some time. Put a smile to my face 

Have a triforce in return
▲
▲▲
Oops.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 12, 2014)

bkifft said:


> True, but thats the game page. the home/main/landingpage was changed in the timeframe I stated earlier. So this (different charities) might really be just a fuck up.


 

Except it looks like she has no ties to that organization either.

Also, I didn't know that I was capable of loving a gay Greek man this much.



Spoiler















 
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some, uh, feelings to explore...


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 12, 2014)

I feel like the farther we go down this rabbit hole, we're not gonna like the final answer. Sort of like the "The Ten O'Clock People"


----------



## Veho (Sep 12, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Some people actually treat the Internet seriously


Ah, the "it's just the telephone, don't take it so seriously" argument.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 12, 2014)

Veho said:


> Ah, the "it's just the telephone, don't take it so seriously" argument.


Of all the things in life Internet squabbles over video games are at the very bottom of the list.


----------



## Veho (Sep 12, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Of all the things in life Internet squabbles over video games are at the very bottom of the list.


Be more specific with your phrasing. 


And now for something completely different.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 12, 2014)

Veho said:


> And now for something completely different.


Yes, I'm sure the police would totally suggest someone to quit activism instead of doing their job and addressing the problem.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 12, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Of all the things in life Internet squabbles over video games are at the very bottom of the list.


Ok, gbatemp is over. Good bye everyone 



Veho said:


> And now for something completely different.


And we have reached batshit crazy. Has this guy also made this offer for Obama's birth certificate?


----------



## Veho (Sep 12, 2014)

bkifft said:


> And we have reached batshit crazy.


Demanding a shred of proof instead of blindly believing her outrageous claims is "batshit crazy"? I see.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 12, 2014)

Veho said:


> Demanding a shred of proof instead of blindly believing her outrageous claims is "batshit crazy"? I see.


Yeah. But we (or better they) already had this when Donald Trump offered a million (?) dollars if Obama would present his "real" birth certificate or something along these lines.

Granted, there is some indications that the august threats were a self fabricated fundraiser (time, neither logged in nor searched, etc. We've all seen the picture).

But investigations like this are not not handled by shouting "Prove it!" but checking the authorities if reports have been filed (which is currently happening). Innocent until proven guilty and not guilty until proven innocent.

Still: If this holds true (no report filed) I'm looking forward to her wiggle out of it.

edit: so goodgame.us went up, the new game review site born out of #gamergate's cry for less corruption.
And what's their first review?
CoC <3 (NSFW: http://www.goodgamers.us/2014/09/11/corruption-of-champions-review/).
(If you are no minor and are up for some really strange shit give the game a go, it's free).
Shoutout to /h/ and /v/ I suppose 

edit the second: Someone sitting on the fence and throwing stones at GG and anti-GG people tries to compile a list of GG and anti-GG statements. If you are anyway involved in this (or want to be) check out http://pixietalksgamergate.wordpress.com/


----------



## DCG (Sep 14, 2014)

Haven't seen any mention of this, but one of the cameralady video's has been removed and the other one has been made private :s
It's starting to get real quiet all of a sudden.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 14, 2014)

DCG said:


> Haven't seen any mention of this, but one of the cameralady video's has been removed and the other one has been made private :s


 
Apparently they fucked something up legally one way or another. The video's are supposed to be revised and reuploaded eventually, but that's not really important. The charges of favoritism in popular independent competitions are, as far as I know, still pretty legit. People are still looking into that.



DCG said:


> It's starting to get real quiet all of a sudden.


 

Partially my fault for not posting here for a few days, partially due to the fact that it's the weekend, so the information slows down. Milo and others are still investigating Zoe Quinn's potential donation fraud and Anita Sarkeesian's fake police calls, so we have to wait and see what else they turn up. The Gamergate hashtag is still on top of the charts, beating even Destiny, so the conversation's hardly died. Plus, Christina Sommers is supposed to come out with a video on the subject soon, so I imagine that'll be posted here as soon it's out.

I meant to post this before but forget, so... An actual, professional journalist (PhD, too!) discusses integrity in the field of journalism, backs up everything GamerGate has been calling for. It's still an interesting, insightful video on its own.



Also, a transwoman indie developer recounts her experience for being shunned and attacked for disagreeing with the Zoe Quinn/Leigh Alexander clique.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 14, 2014)

@Gahar Common misconception: those writing for kotaku, rps  & co are not "journalists" but "bloggers".

And crazy twist: One of the "innocent victims" of #GamerGate seems to be not the saint they were made to be:
http://theralphretort.com/gamergate-exposes-worst-critic-gaming/
http://theralphretort.com/gamergate-exposes-leigh-alexander-part-2/


----------



## Gahars (Sep 14, 2014)

bkifft said:


> @Gahar Common misconception: those writing for kotaku, rps & co are not "journalists" but "bloggers".


 

Except if they want press passes to industry events, conduct interviews, etc., of course. They call themselves journalists until they receive criticism/backlash/questions, and then they suddenly become bloggers.

There's a smattering of examples of these people waffling back and forth between calling themselves "journalists" and "bloggers." I don't have any on hand, but I'll be happy to post them as soon as I find them.

Also: The Best Gamers break character, deliver smackdown.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 14, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Except if they want press passes to industry events, conduct interviews, etc., of course. They call themselves journalists until they receive criticism/backlash/questions, and then they suddenly become bloggers.
> 
> There's a smattering of examples of these people waffling back and forth between calling themselves "journalists" and "bloggers." I don't have any on hand, but I'll be happy to post them as soon as I find them.



But if the link Hyro-sama made to http://www.usgamer.net/articles/lets-talk-about-gamergate-and-journalism is anything to go by then game journalism is at least partway comparable to what those doing reporting for Vice are enduring to report on the Isis stuff. I think we can give them some leeway in their definitions if that is the case.


----------



## Veho (Sep 14, 2014)

Tim Schafer is really bad with money.


----------



## raulpica (Sep 15, 2014)

If you say that Anita Sarkesiaan is faking the police calls just to get more notoriety UR FROM 4CHAN AND A MISOGINIST AZZH0L3 AND U SHUD DIE IN HEL

*FACT*


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 15, 2014)

OMG 

Someone read my shit. FAST no less. Hell yeah!


----------



## bkifft (Sep 15, 2014)

raulpica said:


> If you say that Anita Sarkesiaan is faking the police calls just to get more notoriety UR FROM 4CHAN AND A MISOGINIST AZZH0L3 AND U SHUD DIE IN HEL
> 
> *FACT*


 
Checking if she really reported it: journalism.
Demand for her to prove it herself: witchhunt.

Little known bonus fact: 100% of those I told about this story didn't know the word misogyny. You anglosaxons are crazy.


----------



## raulpica (Sep 15, 2014)

bkifft said:


> You anglosaxons latins are crazy.


Fix'd


----------



## bkifft (Sep 15, 2014)

raulpica said:


> Fix'd


Hold on just a second: so you want to tell me that in bella "bung-bunga" Italia third wave feminism is a vocal movement, too?

Holy shit, they are encircling me! I need to stock my "Man bunker" with canned food and porn right now!


----------



## raulpica (Sep 15, 2014)

bkifft said:


> Hold on just a second: so you want to tell me that in bella "bung-bunga" Italia third wave feminism is a vocal movement, too?
> 
> Holy shit, they are encircling me! I need to stock my "Man bunker" with canned food and porn right now!


Yes it is, even if you hear it pretty rarely. Pretty much only from young females who are disgusted at the situation in Italy. But you never read about it on the newspapers or see it in TV - the only things you can see on there are the asses and tits of the latest hot new local celebrities.

By the way I was sure that it came from Latin, instead it comes from Greek - my previous post is now invalid


----------



## Gahars (Sep 15, 2014)

Spoiler: Journalism











 


Spoiler: A woman who disagrees with me? "House n****"










 


bkifft said:


> Little known bonus fact: 100% of those I told about this story didn't know the word misogyny. You anglosaxons are crazy.


 

To be fair, I'm sure there's quite a lot of non-German words the average German wouldn't know.


----------



## Veho (Sep 15, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Spoiler: A woman who disagrees with me? "House n****"


TIL video games are rape.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 15, 2014)

Veho said:


> TIL video games are rape.



Were I a funnier person I might look up incidences of rape/rape references in computer games and compare those to film and TV, to give it a fighting chance I might have to exclude police procedurals.

Of course if, as I suspect, games come out lower in the percentages I suppose I will have to accept that by not talking about it that they are covering it up and making it harder to do things.

Only way to win is not to play?


----------



## DCG (Sep 16, 2014)

Hell, I even didn't know that word before this happened :s

I really do hope the gamers can successfully launch their own sites and keep them up 

Btw.
Looking at the alexa rating of kotaku they are a bit stable now.
However, quite a chunk of their visitors come from facebook and google search, which might indicate they can lose another 27% of visitors when the SJW's and anti-gamers have found another target XD


----------



## bkifft (Sep 16, 2014)

IMHO quite fair rant in regards to AZ's "Listen an believe":


----------



## Gahars (Sep 17, 2014)

Christina Sommers' new video is up:


Also, happening of note: Yesterday, Julian Assange participated in an AMA on Reddit. Somehow or another, a user that had been shadowbanned by mods for voting on GamerGate content managed to get a question through. Then he tweeted this to his 2.3 *million* followers.






The fire rises, indeed.

4chan, on the other hand, has been through the wringer. Any threads or posts on the subject on any board are swiftly deleted despite previous approval. People who asked questions on the IRC were banned. It seems that one or two of the mods has gone overzealous. Be careful, friends, for not even the Cathedral of Misogyny is safe.


----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 17, 2014)

My GOD your even censoring your own comments. IS THERE NO END TO THIS MADNESS!


----------



## DCG (Sep 17, 2014)

My god... is this shit going to end some day?

I seriously wonder why 4Chan mods would start banning people at this point, the initial shitstorm has already passed and the discussions (that I've seen) were normal.... Are they being paid off somehow?


----------



## Veho (Sep 17, 2014)

4chan is full mainstream nowadays. After its infamy turned to fame it stopped being the secret little club for nerds it started off as, and between that and the public scrutiny that made Moot ban everything for fear of lawsuits the site is now completely vanilla.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 17, 2014)

Veho said:


> 4chan is full mainstream nowadays. After its infamy turned to fame it stopped being the secret little club for nerds it started off as, and between that and the public scrutiny that made Moot ban everything for fear of lawsuits the site is now completely vanilla.


Are you talking about the famous hacker "4 chan"?


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 17, 2014)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-i-learned-as-internets-most-hated-person/

Somewhat amusing, I will leave it for others to read first.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 17, 2014)

So apparently second-wave feminist democrats are conservatives now. Huh.



Spoiler










 


Veho said:


> 4chan is full mainstream nowadays. After its infamy turned to fame it stopped being the secret little club for nerds it started off as, and between that and the public scrutiny that made Moot ban everything for fear of lawsuits the site is now completely vanilla.


 

As the prophets predicted, so it shall be.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 17, 2014)

CoNsPiRaCy AlErT!

warning: it's breitbart, yellow and rightwinged. Take with a bag of salt:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...t-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite

tl;dr: the "bloggers" are communicating IN SECRECY!!!!!!11111!!!11!!1


----------



## Gahars (Sep 17, 2014)

bkifft said:


> CoNsPiRaCy AlErT!
> 
> warning: it's breitbart, yellow and rightwinged. Take with a bag of salt:
> http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...t-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite
> ...


 

...Except collusion like the article claims is actually pretty damning, if everything checks out. Beyond exposing unethical behavior, it would be nice to have tangible proof that these sites are, in fact, actively working together to promote certain individuals and agendas. 

I personally don't agree with a lot of Breitbart's political stances but as long as they're accurately and truthfully reporting information, it's irrelevant.


----------



## DCG (Sep 18, 2014)

Well holy crap..
Moot has decided to ban all Gamergate related stuff...

IP range bans are in effect

And a mod seems to know ZQ o.O
Da hell is going on....
Do they really all know each other, every single one?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 18, 2014)

DCG said:


> Well holy crap..
> Moot has decided to ban all Gamergate related stuff...
> 
> IP range bans are in effect
> ...


Even the Internet is tired of this already.


----------



## DCG (Sep 18, 2014)

I've read people are switching to 8chan now.


----------



## Veho (Sep 18, 2014)

DCG said:


> Well holy crap..
> Moot has decided to ban all Gamergate related stuff...


4chan wants to avoid controversy. 




Spoiler


----------



## bkifft (Sep 18, 2014)

Veho said:


> 4chan wants to avoid controversy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, seeing as they also mod motherf-ing /b/.... Isn't this one of the signs of Jesuses second coming? Is the rupture near? BEing Agnostic I don't know for sure, better join a bible study group just to err on the safe side.

p.s.: sargon is on a hangout with a non rad feminist atm, quite interesting:


----------



## Gahars (Sep 18, 2014)

DCG said:


> Well holy crap..
> Moot has decided to ban all Gamergate related stuff...


 


Spoiler: Moot "saves" 4chan from GamerGate


----------



## bkifft (Sep 19, 2014)

shitizzle got real, milo of breitbart made a big bunch of the private gamejourno google group public (sans the phone numbers which were in milos post on his private blog before he took it down again): http://pastebin.com/h7AncZTE

one of my positive favorites:


Spoiler


----------



## Gahars (Sep 19, 2014)

> I would prefer not to be associated with this. It feels wrong to me. I think it feels very off to reach across the fence from journalist to subject in this way. I prefer professional distance, especially given the accusations being levied at us from outside.
> — Mike Futter, Game Informer


 
Not to repeat IA, but... It's crazy we live in a world where it's the Game Informer writer showing more integrity here. Man, Game Informer (a Gamestop publication), IGN (Mount Dewm), Geoff Keighley (His Holiness, The Doritos Pope) are all coming out of this squeaky clean. They're corporate through and through, sure, but at least they're honest about it. At least they can smell the bullshit.

And hey, give Geoff Keighley a break. He always looks sort of sad and defeated; he doesn't revel in it like these clowns.

*EDIT*:



			
				On Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend said:
			
		

> danielle Aug 30
> Re: [GameJournoPros] Re: Zoe Quinn
> I don’t care if this jilted moron walks around with sad puppy dog eyes for the rest of his life, the fact of the matter is that Zoe – and those closest to her – were put in very real danger by the things he posted online. As in, danger of physical violence. If he was with Zoe for any length of time, he would have known what a mob of angry insane misogynists were capable of, but his pissy little feelings were more important.


 
The fuck.


----------



## Veho (Sep 19, 2014)

How to get banned on 4chan: post this:


----------



## DCG (Sep 19, 2014)

Veho said:


> 4chan wants to avoid controversy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
My point being that they more or less decided not to purge the nude leaks and all other kinds of crap, but are purging this.
I'm kinda sad even Arstechnica is on the blacklist... They had some nice technical articles from time to time :/ but I'm not clickfeeding those fuckers anymore


----------



## Veho (Sep 19, 2014)

DCG said:


> My point being that they more or less decided not to purge the nude leaks and all other kinds of crap, but are purging this.


But they did purge the nudes   
Maybe not with this severity but they do delete threads and remove pics, even on /b/. 4chan is completely neutered.


----------



## FireGrey (Sep 21, 2014)

Since 4chan is kill, looks like we'll be taking over.
I'll do all the shitposting.


----------



## DCG (Sep 21, 2014)

More Doxxing by the SJW's. They even got the one who thought up the #notyourshield fired....
Mighty No.9 comunity manager blocking people from the page etc.

Every day a new controversy it seems :s


----------



## Gahars (Sep 21, 2014)

DCG said:


> More Doxxing by the SJW's. They even got the one who thought up the #notyourshield fired....
> Mighty No.9 comunity manager blocking people from the page etc.
> 
> Every day a new controversy it seems :s


 
Plus...

The Escapist got DDOS'd. They're sticking to their guns, thankfully, but it's still pretty ridiculous.

Some Neogaf users were trying to figure out how to get Milo arrested. 

EDIT: Okay, now this is getting weird...



Spoiler


----------



## raulpica (Sep 21, 2014)

I love how most of the guys partecipating in the "GamerGate" are just psychopaths.

If there EVER was a small bit of usefulness in this entire debate it's entirely drowned out by the shitheads who do all this weird stuff.


----------



## DCG (Sep 21, 2014)

hmmm, probably a sjw who wants to give him aids or something?


----------



## Gahars (Sep 21, 2014)

Can we take a second to acknowledge how great Hotwheels is?

Dude can barely eek out a living or even leave his apartment (though I guess he _does_ still have his cis white male privilege) and he's still putting all this work into 8chan. Already implementing new features (some of which 4chan doesn't even have), fixing the servers, allowing free discussion, etc.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 22, 2014)

raulpica said:


> I love how most of the guys partecipating in the "GamerGate" are just psychopaths.
> 
> If there EVER was a small bit of usefulness in this entire debate it's entirely drowned out by the shitheads who do all this weird stuff.


 
That's kinda what I like, as it gives me opportunity to troll extremists of both sides... WITH SCIENCE (and facts and logic).

Yet there's still a huge load of decent fellows involved, pro as well as contra. Had intellectually stimulating as well as side cracking funny convos resulting from the tag.



DCG said:


> hmmm, probably a sjw who wants to give him aids or something?


 
Nah, if it's from an SJW it's most likely a drug to turn him gay in order to let him experience homophobia first hand.
Wait a second...


Anyway: IMHO best contender for pro GG anthem yet:


----------



## FireGrey (Sep 22, 2014)

Guys I came up with something
What we do is join the SJWs and then be as toxic as we possibly can
Everyone will then hate the SJWs so much that they lose
GG


----------



## JoostinOnline (Sep 22, 2014)

Every time I see the word "corruption" I think of Metroid Prime 3, one of the greatest games ever made.


----------



## Sterling (Sep 22, 2014)

FireGrey said:


> Guys I came up with something
> What we do is join the SJWs and then be as toxic as we possibly can
> Everyone will then hate the SJWs so much that they lose
> GG


 
Pretty sure this isn't a new idea. The internet is such an huge place that it's laughably easy to join up with the other side to sow the seeds of discord.


----------



## FireGrey (Sep 22, 2014)

JoostinOnline said:


> Every time I see the word "corruption" I think of Metroid Prime 3, one of the greatest games ever made.


 
You don't even metroid avatar


----------



## Veho (Sep 22, 2014)

FireGrey said:


> Guys I came up with something
> What we do is join the SJWs and then be as toxic as we possibly can
> Everyone will then hate the SJWs so much that they lose
> GG


That already happened. 
In fact, Zoe Quinn is in reality a very determined, very good troll from 4chan.


----------



## Veho (Sep 22, 2014)

https://twitter.com/josswhedon/status/513808158998147072 

Still a better love story than Twilight   ;O;


----------



## DCG (Sep 22, 2014)

If you try to infiltrate them to flame from their side, you're no better than them :/
We've got to try to stick to facts and keep our dignity 

Oh, and even companies like Steelseries are reading up on everything it seems 
Every day gamergate lives is an victory as the companies are realizing this isn't just a fluke anymore.

Edit.
And yes, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption is a great game 
Got the trilogy myself (retail)


----------



## Gahars (Sep 22, 2014)

Additional e-mail logs have come to light. As it turns out, the GameJournoPros thing was inspired by the JournoList email chain... You know, the one that was widely lambasted as a breach of journalistic ethics and resulted in firings once it was unveiled.

And these are the "professionals" in the industry.


----------



## raulpica (Sep 22, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Additional e-mail logs have come to light. As it turns out, the GameJournoPros thing was inspired by the JournoList email chain... You know, the one that was widely lambasted as a breach of journalistic ethics and resulted in firings once it was unveiled.
> 
> And these are the "professionals" in the industry.


I don't know how this would fit, but as pretty much the entire internet says: ITS ALL ZOE QUINNS FAULT!11!!


----------



## Gahars (Sep 22, 2014)

Here's a list of all the people on the GameJournoPros mailing list.

Interestingly, there's also names from Ubisoft, Activision, Harmonix, and other companies here as well. Very interesting...



raulpica said:


> I don't know how this would fit, but as pretty much the entire internet says: ITS ALL ZOE QUINNS FAULT!11!!


 

Who?


----------



## bkifft (Sep 22, 2014)

raulpica said:


> I don't know how this would fit, but as pretty much the entire internet says: ITS ALL ZOE QUINNS FAULT!11!!


Interesting side note: quite a few people (some not even entangled in GG) start chiming in that ZQ seems to show abusive and manipulative behavior (based on the zoepost).  Thus disliking her might not necessary stem from my soggy knee.



Gahars said:


> Here's a list of all the people on the GameJournoPros mailing list.
> 
> Interestingly, there's also names from Ubisoft, Activision, Harmonix, and other companies here as well. Very interesting...


Nothing to see here, no corruption or collusion at all. Just like minded industry fellas chatting and sharing their favorite jam recipes.




> Who?


 
I suppose you mean that literally? (real talk: while I can see the fun of insider jokes, this one is IMHO plain silly).


----------



## Gahars (Sep 22, 2014)

Spoiler: Don't fuck with this senator/representative/staffer/intern















 
Thanks Obama Congress.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 24, 2014)

Saw a lot of people associated with IGN on that mailing list. Guess they weren't so squeaky clean after all.


----------



## Veho (Sep 24, 2014)




----------



## Vengenceonu (Sep 24, 2014)

That's a very strange way to spell slut.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 24, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Don't fuck with this senator/representative/staffer/intern]
> 
> Thanks Obama Congress.


 
Might just be the answer to the outcry https://twitter.com/congressedits/status/514051543830503425 created 

@Topic: the ex seems to have gotten a court order  and crowdfunded his legal fees to get it appealed  on GoFundMe, which got taken down for an unspecified ToS violation.
Mirror of his GoFundMe: https://archive.today/arqEi
Mirror of his short postmortem of this: https://archive.today/FpeWN


----------



## raulpica (Sep 24, 2014)

Veho said:


> <snip>


"*Cuties* killing videogames"

*looks at picture of Zoe Quinn*

LOLNO


----------



## Veho (Sep 24, 2014)

More like "_cooties_ killing videogames"


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2014)

Vengenceonu said:


> That's a very strange way to spell slut.


Coke Zero is a very strange way to spell Cocks Five too.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 24, 2014)

In case you missed it: Episode 1 of Milo's show Radio Nero, featuring Adam Baldwin, Internet Aristocrat, and Christina Sommers.

In other news, an anti-GG writer for IGN seems to have, uh, had a Phil Fish moment before deleting his Twitter. Also, some are saying he's been fired from his post, so there's that.

Good madam, if only you knew how oppressed you were!



Spoiler: Bows respectfully towards m'lady










 
Finally... new Internet Aristocrat video on Thursday. Get hype.


----------



## bkifft (Sep 27, 2014)

Attention! We've reached Memecon 2! The usual "Hitler reacts" resub of the rage clip from "Der Untergang" (Der Führer as anti-GG):


----------



## Flame (Sep 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


>






Its the 28th... WHERE IS MY FUCKING VIDEO!


----------



## Gahars (Sep 28, 2014)

Flame said:


> Its the 28th... WHERE IS MY FUCKING VIDEO!


 

As if the aristocracy has to explain itself to the common rabble.



Other tidbits...

Here's an excellent article from TechCrunch. If someone you know is curious/confused about this, it's a good recommendation.

And here's a post from Jonathan McIntosh, Anita Sarkeesian's boyfriend/producer/writer:


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 28, 2014)

I love video games with no control whatsoever. I think they call them _"movies"_.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I love video games with no control whatsoever. I think they call them _"movies"_.



That sounds suspiciously like you do not watch films with selectable angles.


----------



## Veho (Sep 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I love video games with no control whatsoever. I think they call them _"movies"_.


Pft, casual. Movies are rigidly controlled, there is no deviation from a set script. If you want entertainment with genuinely no control, watch a live feed of one of these guys:


----------



## Flame (Sep 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I love video games with no control whatsoever. I think they call them _"movies"_.


 

I'm pretty sure they called "_porno_".


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 28, 2014)

Flame said:


> I'm pretty sure they called "_porno_".



Like most aspects of technology you will find "porn" was the thing to really exploit it first. Not only can you have selectable angles but you have DVDs where you can choose the order of events, skip whole sections, have mixes with multiple audio tracks and have sections repeat a few times/for as long as you need.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 28, 2014)

Veho said:


> Pft, casual. Movies are rigidly controlled, there is no deviation from a set script. If you want entertainment with genuinely no control, watch a live feed of one of these guys:


It's obviously controlled by flow of air, which in turn is controlled by a fan or pump. Wake up, sheeple!


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's obviously controlled by flow of air, which in turn is controlled by a fan or pump. Wake up, sheeple!



So not only do you not do multiangle you are unfamiliar with Brownian motion...


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 28, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> So not only do you not do multiangle you are unfamiliar with Brownian motion...


Brownian? I support PoC. 






_;O;_


----------



## Veho (Sep 28, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> It's obviously controlled by flow of air, which in turn is controlled by a fan or pump. Wake up, sheeple!


Air turbulence is chaotic, you layman


----------



## DCG (Sep 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> As if the aristocracy has to explain itself to the common rabble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah, so that's how you spell his name.
I've heard his and sarkarian's name keeps popping up when they are checking connections etc.
In the lazy Thursday stream they were also talking about finding indications of money laundering....


I was also wondering about why "ZQ" would use a fake name... perhaps to cut links to herself if she would be arrested for something? as the name in the records would not be ZQ


----------



## bkifft (Sep 29, 2014)

DCG said:


> I was also wondering about why "ZQ" would use a fake name... perhaps to cut links to herself if she would be arrested for something? as the name in the records would not be ZQ


 
Nah, I don't think there is a sinister reason.

Some indie devs just believe they also need to be hipsters, thus taking on a hipster name (also see Philippe Poisson -> Phil Fish).

btw: compare the NIC/whois entry for the domains beesgo.biz and quinnspiracy.com and spot the differences.


----------



## DCG (Sep 30, 2014)

Although I think the guy is a jackass, his name actually makes sense :/

Poisson is fish in French  and I can imagine lots of people used to call him just Phil instead of Philippe.

But ZQ is nothing like her real name :s
Or the other name she used for the "porn" pics (which look like crap btw.)

I'll look the whois up in a moment


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2014)

DCG said:


> Poisson is fish in French


You don't translate proper nouns, this includes last names.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You don't translate proper nouns, this includes last names.



You think game devs are not worthy of having pen names, even if this is more like a porn name... poor form.


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> You think game devs are not worthy of having pen names, even if this is more like a porn name... poor form.


They can have pen names, sure. His is painfully unoriginal, but what can you do. I was merely underlining that you generally don't translate last names.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 30, 2014)

Originality in game devs... are you expecting superhumans now?


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Originality in game devs... are you expecting superhumans now?


Depends on the devs in question. Anywho, Phil Fish or Philippe Poisson, however you'd like to call him, is a duchebag I have zero interest in and I'm glad that he removed himself from the spotlight - he did the world a favour. Gamers will now remember him for two good deeds - making Fez and disappearing.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 30, 2014)

I don't know. I reckon he had the potential to cause some proper drama.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 30, 2014)

Phil Fish is gone for good? Amen!


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Phil Fish is gone for good? Amen!


He put the company for sale and _"left for good"_ as far as I know. I'm quite happy too, I got sick of his bitching and drama. There's only so much you can take before it stops being entertaining and starts being annoying.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hmm, either I am now remarkably tolerant or I stopped being a connoisseur of gaming whine and moved to a lesser form. One is unlikely and the other is disturbing.


----------



## Gahars (Sep 30, 2014)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Phil Fish is gone for good? Amen!


 

He's gone for good...again. Like a leaky toilet, I'm sure he'll return to stinking things up soon enough.

On a somewhat similar note...



Spoiler: The Why of the White Knight," or "White Knight Chronicles


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2014)

Believing that women even need white knighting in the 21st century is backwards and sexist to begin with - I'm pretty sure that a grown-ass woman can fend for herself in this day and age. White knighting only reinforces the stereotype that women are a weaker sex that requires constant protection.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Sep 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Believing that women even need white knighting in the 21st century is backwards and sexist to begin with - I'm pretty sure that a grown-ass woman can fend for herself in this day and age. White knighting only reinforces the stereotype that women are a weaker sex that requires constant protection.


 

Pfffft... 

You would know wouldn't you, you patriarchal cisscumbag. ;O;


----------



## Foxi4 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Pfffft...
> 
> You would know wouldn't you, you patriarchal cisscumbag. ;O;


I pride myself on being a heterosexual male and a great partner for my heterosexual girlfriend, we could be the poster couple for Cisscum Magazine. _;O;_


----------



## Gahars (Sep 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Believing that women even need white knighting in the 21st century is backwards and sexist to begin with - I'm pretty sure that a grown-ass woman can fend for herself in this day and age. White knighting only reinforces the stereotype that women are a weaker sex that requires constant protection.


 

That's the great irony, isn't it? Same with the "cultural appropriation" hullabaloo.

"I don't like different cultures intermingling and interacting... but YOU are the racist."


----------



## bkifft (Oct 1, 2014)

Disclaimer: I just got up and didn't do my morning rituals yet, so the following might be even more bitter than usual.



Foxi4 said:


> I pride myself on being a heterosexual male and a great partner for my heterosexual girlfriend, we could be the poster couple for Cisscum Magazine. _;O;_


 
Oh, so she is a neckbearded basement dweller, too? *duck and cover*



Gahars said:


> That's the great irony, isn't it? Same with the "cultural appropriation" hullabaloo.
> 
> "I don't like different cultures intermingling and interacting... but YOU are the racist."


 
Nah, it seems you misunderstand. All oppressed groups (be it now or sometimes in the past) have the right to get some time in the oppressive role now, because "Eye for an Eye". That's why PoC are allowed to keep white slaves, Muslims are allowed to do their holy crusades and statements like "Die cishets!" and #killallmen are A-OK.

And as those oppressed usually are believed to be quite undereducated they need white nights to tell them of those revenge oppression rights, just like ambulance chasing lawyers tell you how much money you can make.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 1, 2014)

Intel's dropped Gamasutra due to the "shifts in editorial posturing."



Spoiler: Nobody cared who I was until I put on the mass campaign.










 
Looks like we've got another rising figure in the pro-censorship, pro-corruption group: Alex Lifschitz



His full, crazy-town-banana-pants speech, if you're interested.



Spoiler: A winning personality in action










 
By the way, you know how he's promoting and praising Depression Quest in his speech? Well, guess who he's now dating?



Spoiler: Guess Who










It never ends, this shit.


----------



## raulpica (Oct 1, 2014)

Gahars said:


> By the way, you know how he's promoting and praising Depression Quest in his speech? Well, guess who he's now dating?
> 
> It never ends, this shit.


Okay, I guess that means Tom Bombadildo is next


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Oct 1, 2014)

raulpica said:


> Okay, I guess that means Tom Bombadildo is next


 
Ewww, no thanks, I saw Zoe Quinn's nudes thanks to Foxi  

0/10, no thanks


----------



## raulpica (Oct 1, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Ewww, no thanks, I saw Zoe Quinn's nudes thanks to Foxi
> 
> 0/10, no thanks


Wait, are there nudes of ZQ floating around?

It's time.

WE NEED TO BURN THE INTERNETS


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Oct 1, 2014)

raulpica said:


> Wait, are there nudes of ZQ floating around?
> 
> It's time.
> 
> WE NEED TO BURN THE INTERNETS


 
CoughCoughDon'tGoogleZoeQuinnhatesfemaleobjectification(unlessshe'spaid)CoughCough


----------



## bkifft (Oct 1, 2014)

Gentle[insertyourchoosengenderhere]: Blood has been spilled for real now.

In response to "a few" angry emails Intel pulled adds from gamasutra: https://twitter.com/Rinaxas/status/517389605394726914 (mirror: https://archive.today/99dEs)

confirmation by gamasutra: https://twitter.com/gamasutra/status/517415198492467202 (mirror: https://archive.today/m777R)


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 1, 2014)

I missed out on the gamasutra stuff, I shall have to find out what they did.

However I am more upset but the appalling language being used by our new friend bkifft
"insert your choos, engender here" indeed...

What filth, how can we aim to rise above those we aim to cover when we allow such things here.


----------



## bkifft (Oct 2, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> I missed out on the gamasutra stuff, I shall have to find out what they did.


IIRC they published the first "Gamers are over" article (written by the lovely Leigh Alexander who does in no way whatsoever behave like a bitch and never has). Also I believe they hosted the "I will defend every woman on the field of honor, choose your weapon" piece.

edit: Gamers are over by "Le Megaphoney": https://archive.today/l1kTW
Gamersgate: [sic] STFU : (mirror of a mirror because it was taken down again in a NY minute) https://archive.today/TshVv




> However I am more upset but the appalling language being used by our new friend bkifft
> "insert your choos, engender here" indeed...
> 
> What filth, how can we aim to rise above those we aim to cover when we allow such things here.


[/quote]

I humbly ask for ex_culpation for my my not up_standing behavior, but I'm st_ill a hu_man after all. I'd even be w_illing to let you/yis/squirrel educ_ate me in not triggering langu_age.

As a sign of good faith I'll even don_ate a few choos: "Choo choo"


----------



## Gahars (Oct 2, 2014)

Just in case anyone needs a reminder:



Spoiler: The Current State of Video Game "Journalism"















None of that is photoshopped, by the way.

I know the "We're just bloggers, so we don't standards!" argument is the go-to defense for these people, but honestly, that's just an insult to bloggers at this point.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Oct 2, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Just in case anyone needs a reminder:
> 
> None of that is photoshopped, by the way.
> 
> I know the "We're just bloggers, so we don't standards!" argument is the go-to defense for these people, but honestly, that's just an insult to bloggers at this point.


 
I like The Verge's post more.







WOOOOOO TORTURE AND TERRORISM!


----------



## Gahars (Oct 2, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I like The Verge's post more.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> WOOOOOO TORTURE AND TERRORISM!


 

TL;DR: I'm actually having fun, but I want to keep face with my peers and pretend to have some sort of moral high ground.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 2, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I like The Verge's post more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bugger, I was really looking forward to that game; I play games to escape real life, not re-enact an average Friday night.


----------



## DCG (Oct 2, 2014)

Yea Raul, there are, quite easily findable :s

Funny quote from a site which contains links to it XD
"Note that the first link contains the string "5inVag", which shows not even random name generators are willing to let this scandal go"


----------



## Gahars (Oct 2, 2014)

Alright, so there's a whole lot of mad right now. It's hard to keep track of it all!

So, the Gamasuitors are still flap-flustered over Intel removing its ads. As it turns out, choosing not to run ads on a website is literally censorship. Intel is denying them their right to money when they want it.



Spoiler










 
And here's the Verge's take. I'm sure they'll have a thoughtful, reasoned response to the consequences that obvious disregard for your target demographic can hav-



Spoiler










 
Never change!

Also... Another Milo article has hit Breitbart on the GameJournoPros list. It's a nice reminder of the professionalism, tact, and respect for consumers that the gaming press is so famous for.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 2, 2014)

Gahars said:


> And here's the Verge's take. I'm sure they'll have a thoughtful, reasoned response to the consequences that obvious disregard for your target demographic can hav-



Owing to my security setting hosing up the display (and me being too bone idle to click the few times it would take to fix it) I read most of that with about 13 characters per line. It made it even more amusing than the words themselves, which themselves caused no small amount of amusement.

The only question is if it is My First Conspiracy or Incompetence... normally Hanlon's razor would appear but I am not sure it is suitable here.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 2, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Owing to my security setting hosing up the display (and me being too bone idle to click the few times it would take to fix it) I read most of that with about 13 characters per line. It made it even more amusing than the words themselves, which themselves caused no small amount of amusement.
> 
> The only question is if it is My First Conspiracy or Incompetence... normally Hanlon's razor would appear but I am not sure it is suitable here.


 

Well, they've copied Tumblr's politics, so it fits that they've taken the Tumblr formatting, too.


----------



## bkifft (Oct 6, 2014)

Great (now finished) live stream featuring Erik Cain, Greg Tito (escapist), Janelle Bonanno (gamefront) and John Bain (totalbiscuit) regarding GamerGate:


----------



## Gahars (Oct 8, 2014)

Gather 'round, here comes the story of *Bear Senpai: Date The Bear of Your Dreams*.

On the surface, this just seems like a dumb joke at best and a shameless Hatoful Boyfriend clone at worst. Maybe the $18,000 price tag raises a few eyebrows, but it's not like overpriced Kickstarters are anything new. However, you're gonna want to glove up, kids, because this goes deep.

Now, who's running this Kickstarter. Why, it's Toni Rocca, the president of Gaymer X, a convention focused on being gay and playing video games. And hey, a person who holds a convention for games is interested in games. That's completely understandable, at least.

Well, you can look through the list of backers and... oh my, what's this?






Well, that's interesting, Toni. You say you're running GaymerX as a "full time thing" and GaymerX is contributing to your Kickstarter even though self-pledging is a suspension-worthy offense. (Also, kind of interesting that you're running a Patreon to make games while also running a Kickstarter to make games, but hey...)

What's also interesting is that you're developing for Ouya, Toni. Why is that interesting? Because Ouya matches funds 100% for successful Kickstarters. But don't just take my word for it!



> We're participating in OUYA's #FreeTheGames Fund, created by OUYA to support developers making new and creative console games. OUYA will match your pledge dollar-for-dollar up to your goal amount (and a max of $250,000), so help us get there and make a great game for everyone! To be eligible for this match, we commit that this game will be an OUYA exclusive for a period of time.


Well, gee, Toni, it almost seems as if you're using your own money to prop up your Kickstarter to earn an extra $18,000 for a game that would cost less than an Ouya to produce. I mean, of course you wouldn't, because that's seriously unethical and would be a blatant scam. Could you imagine, though?

Now for a little conspiracy theorizing.

Toni is also personal friends with people in the industry, which is to be expected. What you probably expect at this point is the company she keeps: folks like The Guess Who and Nathan Grayson, who also wrote articles promoting GaymerX. Interdasting, very interdasting.

Now, Nathan Grayson writes at Kotaku, which just so happened to write an article all about this specific project out of the blue, and a little before the deadline to boot. And my, look at that funding boost. The author of that Kotaku piece was Luke Plunkett, one of the writers for all those "Gamers are Dead" articles.

It goes all the way to the top!



Now... yeah, there's a lot of stuff not set in stone here. The Kotaku thing is suspicious, but who knows, maybe Luke Plunkett just happened to stumble upon the Kickstarter and decided to write the piece regardless of everything else. Perhaps there's some explanation for why Toni Rocca's own convention seems to be funding his own Kickstarter.

No matter what, though, it's a shitty, shady Hatoful Boyfriend cash-in. Keep an eye on how it goes.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 8, 2014)

Gahars, I wanted to thank you for keeping this thread bumped with updates. We may not agree on everything, but you're doing a damn fine job of reporting the compilations and such.

EDIT: I mean there's more than compilations too.


----------



## Veho (Oct 8, 2014)

Gahars said:


>


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 8, 2014)




----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


>



Does that mean as much when armchair activism is a thing, perhaps even the thing?


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 8, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Does that mean as much when armchair activism is a thing, perhaps even the thing?


Disgusting ableist attitude - disrespecting all the chairs without any arms!


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Disgusting ableist attitude - disrespecting all the chairs without any arms!



The only time I note deformities in the chair arm department is when I get a camping chair without a drink holder.

I would mention all the times I have fixed chairs but that might be troubled by my having brought one back, took its good arm off and stuck it in my room for several months with it facing its arms. I promise I had every intention of fixing it (I need to drill out a snapped bolt)


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 8, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> The only time I note deformities in the chair arm department is when I get a camping chair without a drink holder.
> 
> I would mention all the times I have fixed chairs but that might be troubled by my having brought one back, took its good arm off and stuck it in my room for several months with it facing its arms. I promise I had every intention of fixing it (I need to drill out a snapped bolt)


Pff-- chairogyny! That chair doesn't need your help, filthy ableist cisscum male!  #NotYourChair


----------



## Gahars (Oct 8, 2014)




----------



## FailName (Oct 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Pff-- chairogyny! That chair doesn't need your help, filthy ableist cisscum male!  #NotYourChair


Chair=chair
gyn=woman
So now you're going to oppress all the chairkin out there who do not happen to identify with a binary gender by assuming they all identify as female? Filthy ableist cisscum male!


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 8, 2014)

FailName said:


> Chair=chair
> gyn=woman
> So now you're going to oppress all the chairkin out there who do not happen to identify with a binary gender by assuming they all identify as female? Filthy ableist cisscum male!


Well-played, chairkin. You out-offended me.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 8, 2014)

I am torn at this point, on the one hand I want to link
[parsehtml]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HoycCt0gkXA&hl=en_US&start=396"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HoycCt0gkXA&hl=en_US&start=396" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/parsehtml]
On the other hand I am having something of a crisis of conscience as I once called someone a doormat.

Edit. Turns out it was just gas.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 9, 2014)

Aaaaand now the SJW crowd have turned on GaymerX. Is it for a potentially dodgy Kickstarter funding scheme? Nope, of course not, that'd be a legitimate concern.

The flock has descended upon GaymerX for... tweets that "seemed" to support GamerGate. This is a thought crime of the highest order and demands self-flagellation and public shaming.

https://archive.today/DXom4

And here's some of the lovely Twitter conversations for good measure.
http://imgur.com/6wDtXuc
http://i.imgur.com/JJgruOi.png

They really do eat their own.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 9, 2014)

I suppose it is the old adage -- people don't hate what is truly different to them, just those that are slightly different.


----------



## DCG (Oct 9, 2014)

These SJW's are batshit insane ...

I guess I'll go get myself involved :/
Been a "customer" of Autodesk (inventor) for almost 5 years (student licence), so I'll request them to stop advertising on the offending sites.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 9, 2014)

Big Man Tyrone lays it down.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 12, 2014)

Spoiler: Total KO











 
That smackdown is all the more impressive considering that TotalBiscuit just had surgery on Wednesday for his colon cancer. I guess the only thing that can stop him are absent/poorly implemented FOV sliders.



Spoiler: A sterling example










 
Why is it that some of the most vocal social justice-types began on the complete opposite end of the spectrum? First Jim Sterling makes tweets like these, and next thing he's denouncing gamergate (despite claiming the consumer advocate mantle for years) and working with people like Zoe Quinn. On Twitter, Anthony Burch talked about how he used to "hate" women before (essentially) being converted. It's weird seeing him spout out the Sarkeesian talking points about violence against women in media when he was writing scenes like this back in 2011.

They're like political pendulums, swinging from one extreme to the next. It's a little off-putting.


----------



## Rocc0 (Oct 14, 2014)

I know that TotalBiscuit likes Jim Sterling though, and if it weren't for TB, I probably wouldn't even know who Jim Sterling is. Curious to see if TB says anything about this.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 14, 2014)

Jim "The Jim-Jam Flim-Flam" Sterling is at it again.

Recently, the Escapist ran an article trying to capture different points of view on the whole GamerGate affair. It's basically just a collection of interviews and statements from different developers about their thoughts on the matter. The article's pretty evenhanded in terms of viewpoints, talking to people on both sides.

This, of course, is an outrage.



Spoiler: Don't let the door hit you on the way out










 
I find it funny how he seems to be under the impression that Escapist's editorial staff should've consulted with him on the article... even though it had nothing to do with him at all.



Spoiler










For a guy who's championed himself as a consumer activist for years now, it's pretty funny how little respect he has for the consumers he's supposed to be advocating for. Harumph.


Also, Bayonetta 2 came out, and guess who was there to cry "Muh Soggy Knees!" to all who would listen?



> BAYONETTA 2'S BLATANT OVER-SEXUALIZATION PUTS A BIG DENT IN AN OTHERWISE GREAT GAME


 
He seems to focus more on the perceived over-sexualization than the actual gameplay in that there review of his. Funny that.

Also funny: the writer of the review, Arthur Gies, subscribes to Suicide Girls. You're really sticking it to the patriarchy there, Arthur, huh?



Spoiler: Which, naturally, led to this amazing little picture...










 
Also, funny... for all the criticisms of Bayonetta's "sexist" design, her character designer is, in fact, a woman, Mari Shimazaki. I guess it's internalized misogyny?



Rocc0 said:


> I know that TotalBiscuit likes Jim Sterling though, and if it weren't for TB, I probably wouldn't even know who Jim Sterling is. Curious to see if TB says anything about this.


 
They might be personal friends even if their professional work is leagues apart. It doesn't really matter either way, though; Jim's making an ass out of himself, and that sort of behavior just speaks for itself.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 14, 2014)

Boogie1988 got banned from NeoGAF.



> Your time at NeoGAF has been spent consistently apologizing for -- and disingenuously ignoring the actions of -- a movement of harassment and hate, while diverting as much attention as possible away from the issues at hand and toward yourself. You are not the victim here for being thought less of in your tacit support of disgusting and illegal behavior.
> Individuals standing up for victims continue to receive thousands of hate messages and death threats, and a third member of the video game industry is forced out of her home and into hiding. People you claim are your friends are leaving social media behind in the wake of mass harassment by the movement you are championing. These are your people. This is your movement.
> As you've also expressed a strong desire to leave NeoGAF but continue to participate, you'll now have some more free time to reflect on your decisions of the past several weeks.
> -NeoGAF Administration


----------



## bkifft (Oct 14, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Also, Bayonetta 2 came out, and guess who was there to cry "Muh Soggy Knees!" to all who would listen?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, it seems that "crazy chick porn" isn't sexist but avant-garde, as those models aren't abused or objectified, but are free to act "crazy". Perhaps those enjoying this special smut genre want a strong womyn by their side who might kill them in their sleep, freeing them from their "alive privilege" *shrug*. Also, see Zoe "Locke" Quinn.

Oh and in case someone wants to know why I dub this stuff "crazy chick porn": search for and watch the 3ish min video (warning: NSFW nudity and softcore) "Stoya kills the bear", which was for me the genre defining piece.


----------



## Veho (Oct 14, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Spoiler: Which, naturally, led to this amazing little picture...


Are those quotes taken from his review of Bayonetta 2? The fact they can also be used to describe a porn photo session kind of prove his point that Bayonetta 2 looks like a porn photo session.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 14, 2014)

Never change, Hotwheels. Never change. 



Spoiler: So long and thanks for all the Fish










 
And now Phil Fish is getting thrown under the bus. I guess that's what happens when you outlive your usefulness...



Veho said:


> Are those quotes taken from his review of Bayonetta 2? The fact they can also be used to describe a porn photo session kind of prove his point that Bayonetta 2 looks like a porn photo session.


 

...Or puritanical hyper-sensitivity and hypocrisy with a healthy dash of "slut shaming" as the kids call it.

Whatever floats your boat.



Sterling said:


> Boogie1988 got banned from NeoGAF.


 

What a bunch of cowards. All adults and they're still afraid of the boogieman.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 14, 2014)

bkifft said:


> Well, it seems that "crazy chick porn" isn't sexist but avant-garde, as those models aren't abused or objectified, but are free to act "crazy". Perhaps those enjoying this special smut genre want a strong womyn by their side who might kill them in their sleep,* freeing them from their "alive privilege" *shrug**. Also, see Zoe "Locke" Quinn.
> 
> Oh and in case someone wants to know why I dub this stuff "crazy chick porn": search for and watch the 3ish min video (warning: NSFW nudity and softcore) "Stoya kills the bear", which was for me the genre defining piece.



You reminded me of one of my favourite Terry Pratchett quotes



			
				Terry Pratchett said:
			
		

> Fairly solid classroom rumour said that if he inhumed his examiner before the test, that was an automatic pass. He slipped a Number Three throwing knife from its thigh sheath and hefted it thoughtfully. Of course, any attempt, any overt move which missed would attract immediate failure and loss of privileges*. (* Breathing, for a start.)


----------



## Veho (Oct 14, 2014)

Gahars said:


> ...Or puritanical hyper-sensitivity and hypocrisy with a healthy dash of "slut shaming" as the kids call it.


Or, you know, porn   

Also, argumentum ad tu quoque or whatever.


----------



## bkifft (Oct 14, 2014)

HuffPost live talk with Brianna Wu, Erik Kain and Fredrick "Hotwheels" Brennan:
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/se...-video-game-culture-/5437df2b78c90a43d9000be8



FAST6191 said:


> You reminded me of one of my favourite Terry Pratchett quotes


Small tangent, but is it just me or does Sir Terry have quite a few references to SJ stuff like "The Campaign for Equal Heights"?


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Oct 15, 2014)

Suicide Girls is great. Not that I subscribe or anything... *cough*


----------



## Gahars (Oct 15, 2014)

We'll huff, and we'll puff, and we'll blow them the fuck out!



So a little context. Yesterday, Huffington Post held a Live segment on Gamergate. It brought together Hotwheels, the administrator of 8chan and wheelchair aficionado, Erik Kain, a prominent, respected journalist, and Brianna "Literally" Wu, an indie developer/anti-Gamergate crusader. Now, in theory, this was supposed to be a balanced discussion on what's going on. In actuality, Brianna Wu got the most screentime by a large margin (9 minutes to Hotwheels' 3, and Erik got even less), and she spent it throwing hissy fits and screaming over everyone else. Besides Hotwheels getting some good zingers in, it was a bloody awful affair.

So, HuffPo (as the cool kids call it) decided to give it another go. The same host now brought on several women for their view of GamerGate... and it was glorious.

Watch and bask in this habbening of habbenings.


*On another note...*

TotalBiscuit, still recovering from his cancer operation, posted about the phenemenon of online threats and the best way to respond to them. As a prominent Youtuber and controversial figure, he knows a good deal on the subject.

...Or so you think. Oh, if only he understood that his cis white male privilege was blinding him to the truth...



Spoiler


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't frequent Huffington Post, but I do remember one of their interviews that was quite entertaining:



God bless you Zepps, you did humanity a favour.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 15, 2014)

So I clicked the twitlonger thing and got some of the odder rules I have seen on the internet in a while



			
				twitlonger rules said:
			
		

> Report Content
> 
> If you believe this post is inappropriate, please report it. Inappropriate content includes:
> 
> ...



It is going to take me a while to fully digest this one. I would say design by committee but such endeavours do usually include at least one marginally competent lawyer and marginally competent tech. That it would appear to not even remotely harmonise with twitter proper's rules (twitter seems to do well for "adult content") seems all the odder.

As for Terry Pratchett I usually read it as skewing more towards taking the piss out of the class system (or at least what remains of it/the general notion of it) and political correctness (among many many other things), such things would seem to overlap with the Venn diagram of what many a tumblr type would claim to be their causes. Mind you pitting Mr Pratchett against the tumblr types would be a bit like pitting epidemiologists against anti vaccination types -- nothing to be gained save perhaps for some good humour.

Anyway with this increase in interest in having something approaching journalism for games have we had any stories of Hollywood accounting in the game industry yet? The closest I have seen was one of the people doing the longer form videos that came early did something on the Steam summer sale, being a promotion though it is not exactly the same thing.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 16, 2014)

If someone asks you for a run down on what this GamerGate commotion is about, or you'd just like to brush up yourself, this is a handy dandy telling of what's been going on.



FAST6191 said:


> Anyway with this increase in interest in having something approaching journalism for games have we had any stories of Hollywood accounting in the game industry yet? The closest I have seen was one of the people doing the longer form videos that came early did something on the Steam summer sale, being a promotion though it is not exactly the same thing.


 

The closest thing in terms of GamerGate has been Tim "The 3.3 million dollar man" Schafer and Double Fine's bungling of Broken Age/Spacebase DF-9's funding. There's also the _fish_y business with Fez and the supposed racketeering behind the scenes of IGF, but people are still looking into that, iirc.

We probably won't get much in terms of AAA devs since they're not really embroiled in this. That being said, I'd love to know how the hell EA is spending tens of millions of dollars (not including the marketing) on something that looks this awful.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Oct 16, 2014)

Gahars said:


> If someone asks you for a run down on what this GamerGate commotion is about, or you'd just like to brush up yourself, this is a handy dandy telling of what's been going on.


Well that was actually useful, was actually kinda curious about what all this ruckus was about after seeing Adam Baldwin and Seth Rogen feud about it on Twitter.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 16, 2014)

soulx said:


> Well that was actually useful, was actually kinda curious about what all this ruckus was about after seeing Adam Baldwin and Seth Rogen feud about it on Twitter.


 

It's more of starter guide than anything else, but considering all the noise and bickering, it's good to have a clear account out there.

KotakuInAction made up its own wiki, which is basically just a collection helpful videos, pictures, and articles, for anyone who wants to dig in deeper.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 17, 2014)

Surprise, surprise: The Guardian caught red handed pushing an Anti-GG agenda.







Also...

Eron, the ex-boyfriend of Literally Who/Franz Ferdinand/*Insert Other Nickname for Zoe Quinn here*, was recently interviewed over the past few months of controversy by Buzzfeed. Here's the interview.

Yeah, as it turns out, it looks like the interviewer heavily skewed his words. Here's the actual transcript, courtesy of Eron himself.



Spoiler: A good highlight



[10/14/14 2:29:03 PM] Eron Gjoni: Just a sec. I want to send an appraisal of why this personal thing became so cultural
[10/14/14 2:29:11 PM] Eron Gjoni: while the other personal things made only small blips
[10/14/14 2:29:11 PM] joseph_bernstein: okay
[10/14/14 2:29:22 PM] Eron Gjoni: I haven’t published it anywhere yet, so do with it as you wish
[10/14/14 2:29:32 PM] Eron Gjoni: Game Dev: ”Josh Mattingly was being a total fucking creeper on Facebook last night.”
Games Journalists: “HOLY SHIT LET’S PUBLISH THE CHATLOGS THIS IS TOTALLY INDUSTRY RELATED.”
Josh Mattingly: ”My bad, I was drunk. I’m gonna quit.”
———-
Someone Pseudonymously Known as Magz: “Max Temkin had not-entirely-consensual sex with me one time way back in college. Well, it was more like, a crime of opportunity, but yeah.”
Games Journalists: “HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK LET’S SIGNAL BOOST THIS IT IS TOTALLY INDUSTRY RELATED.”
Max Temkin: “I have no idea what’s going on but I’m sorry.”
———-
Former Employee of Stardock Entertainment: ”Brad Wardell sort of maybe sexually harassed me.”
Games Journalists: ”HOLY SHIT LET’S PUBLISH THE COURT DOCUMENTS AND EVERY ALLEGATION YOUR LAWYER MADE UP TO HOPE SOMETHING STICKS! THIS IS VERY INDUSTRY RELATED.”
Former Employee of Stardock Entertainment: “Oh oops, no I made it up, deleted a bunch of his files. Sorry for that.”
———
Me: “So uhhh, Zoe Quinn fired me to work for someone she was having an affair with. Also she doesn’t abide by like any of the virtues she has marketed herself as an activist for. Also, by her own definition, she violated my sexual consent. Also she claims to be a compulsive liar. Also (again quite contrary to her activist stances) she purposely stigmatizes mental illness whenever it suits her interests. Basically be careful around her?”
Games Journalists: “This isn’t industry related you’re such a shithead for airing dirty laundry these are all private matters grow up you angry jilted ex.”
Me: ” Wouldn’t ‘Jilted’ would require that she broke up with me? It was the other way around. Also, I don’t really get angry because I kind of depersonalize in stressful sit—”
Games Journalists: “Angry. Jilted. Ex.”
Wolf Wozniak: “Oh shit. Zoe? She sexually harassed me at a wedding.”
Games Journalists: “Sorry what? We couldn’t hear you over the sound of how private these matters are.”
Chloe Van Keenan: “Wait — she said infidelity is a violation of consent? Doesn’t that mean she was complicit in violating my consent when she was sleeping with my boyfriend?”
Games Journalists: “Are you guys seeing all of this harassment Zoe is getting? This is totally uncalled for. I can’t believe how misogynistic this community is.”
Abuse Survivors: “Uhh, guys? Has anyone read these chatlogs? She’s being like textbook psychologically abusive here. Like, this is pages and pages of triggering.”
Games Journalists: “RELATIONSHIP ABUSE IS A PRIVATE MATTER. THIS IS NOT INDUSTRY RELATED.”
“Games Enthusiasts”: “Uhh, but we want to know these things because we don’t want to support people who do these horrible sorts of things—”
Games Journalists: “JESUS CHRIST HOW MISOGYNISTIC CAN YOU GET??”
Zoe Quinn: “I’m still trying to come to terms with everything because I thought that false abuse / rape claims literally never happened up until now. Also, uhhh, 4chan is spreading nudes of me on the internet”
Games Journalists: “HOLY FUCK THEY’RE SPREADING NUDES OF YOU?? THIS IS OBSCENE WHY WOULD THEY BE SO MAD AS TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT AFTER WE’VE COMPLETELY IGNORED EVERY SINGLE THING YOU’VE DONE WRONG TO PROTECT YOU?? ARE YOU OKAY?? WE’RE COMING OVER TO MAKE SURE YOU’RE OKAY.”
Mallorie Nasrallah: “Uh, hi. Those nudes were from a porn pay site. They were back from when Zoe was doing porn. They’re not private or anything. I was her photographer at one point. Within an hour of meeting me she claimed she murdered someone who tried to rape her. These sorts of claims were not out of the ordinary for her… like I’ve met her and her ex is really right to have warned you. You guys should really be careful.”
Games Journalists: “EXCUSE ME WE’RE TRYING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT MISOGYNY HERE.”


 
Here's the TL;DR:


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

Polycock has published a letter from the editor about GamerGate. If you were expecting a fair and equal examination of Polygon's game's "journalism", you came to the wrong place.

http://pastebin.com/syQSgdAv

Full retard mode activated.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 18, 2014)

Reading that... should I feel bad that I never considered Kotaku a progressive outlet?


----------



## Gahars (Oct 18, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Polycock has published a letter from the editor about GamerGate. If you were expecting a fair and equal examination of Polygon's game's "journalism", you came to the wrong place.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/syQSgdAv
> 
> Full retard mode activated.


 






[FURY INTENSIFIES BEYOND MEASUREMENT]

Well, let's go back to talking about that corruption that so clearly doesn't exist.

http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/gamergate-destructoid-corruption-and-ruined-careers/

Gee, the GameJournoPros conspiring to have a man fired for daring to report honestly on an IndieGoGo racket? Nope, nothing fishy about that at all.

Also, Gawker's picked up on the story and, of course, slandering GamerGate with the usual accusations of sexism and "muh soggy knees." What's interesting, however, is what their writers have been posting.



Spoiler










 
Which other writers came right out and supported.

What a progressive bunch, huh?

Luckily, there's a happy ending here. Mercedes, along with other sponsors, have pulled out from Gawker due to the statements, and GamerGate started a donation page to promote an anti-bullying charity. As of right now, it's raised almost $14,500. 

But remember, _we're_ the assholes.


----------



## SparkFenix (Oct 18, 2014)

I saw a guy replying to his tweet, taking up his challenge. He was some kind of martial arts professional. Guess who wussed out.


----------



## Veho (Oct 18, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Also, Gawker's picked up on the story and, of course, slandering GamerGate with the usual accusations of sexism and "muh soggy knees." What's interesting, however, is what their writers have been posting.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


*>not posting the rest of it *


----------



## Quietlyawesome94 (Oct 18, 2014)

Veho said:


> *>not posting the rest of it *





Mercedes Benz withdrew their ads from Gawker due to that idiot's remarks on bullying.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jjb54/mercedes_benz_usa_is_removing_their/



Guild McCommunist said:


> Polycock has published a letter from the editor about GamerGate. If you were expecting a fair and equal examination of Polygon's game's "journalism", you came to the wrong place.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/syQSgdAv
> 
> Full retard mode activated.


 

I couldn't even finish that. At least it's coming back to bite them in the butt.

https://twitter.com/yesallgamers/status/523333479837470720/photo/1


----------



## Gahars (Oct 19, 2014)

We've reached the critical mass of crazy... you can "weaponize charity."



Spoiler










 
Now, Alex, by "donate to their victims," do you happen to mean "Fund their lifestyles on Patreon?" Because that seems less like charity and more life hipster welfare.



Spoiler: Bonus response










 
Now, let's be fair to Alex Lifschitz here. After all, it's easy to be dismissive of charity when you're dad's a millionaire. Now, would you mind telling me some more about _my_ privilege?


----------



## Frederica Bernkastel (Oct 19, 2014)

Gentlemen I come to you with the greatest of ideas.  You know how we are paid through sponsorship and advertising deals, both brought in through "gamers" reading our gaming-related content?  Well what if we were to, in the public eye, demonise those readers!  It's a genius plan that can't go wrong! - Oh well shit, what do you mean we need an audience in order to generate income?  THIS IS DISCRIMINATION.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2014)

Gahars said:


> But remember, _we're_ the assholes.



Can't I still be an arsehole, just one that is also right?


----------



## bkifft (Oct 19, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Can't I still be an arsehole, just one that is also right?


 
You aren't progressive through and through, therefore you already are a right (wing) arsehole. 

Welcome to our midst.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 19, 2014)

I did try, however it seems like I can not move out of the old mindset of "give everybody the same baseline and then go on their merits from there".

Maybe I am just a dinosaur.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 19, 2014)

A writer from Medium goes through 1500 tweets directed at Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, looking for rape and death threats. She finds none. The mental gymnastics that follows, trying to claim any criticism or negative language counts as "harassment," is definitely impressive.



> In those 20 hours neither Anita or Brianna received a serious rape or death threat (which doesn’t meant they never get them, just that they did not receive them in that time-frame). But what they did get was an endless stream of almost exclusive negativity.


 





This is what oppression looks like, everybody.

EDIT:

TotalBiscuit's got his voice back, and he's putting it to use.

If asscancer couldn't keep him down, what hope does anyone else have?


----------



## raulpica (Oct 19, 2014)

Gahars said:


> A writer from Medium goes through 1500 tweets directed at Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, looking for rape and death threats. She finds none. The mental gymnastics that follows, trying to claim any criticism or negative language counts as "harassment," is de'finitely impressive.


inb4 "that's because Twitter removed the tweets!1111"


----------



## _kbnft (Oct 20, 2014)

Can someone write about the anti-gg who was considering suicide because of the harassment she recieved. Turns out she/he was behind the indiegogo fraudraiser.
Im not sure if its connected with the dtoid journalist who was fired for writing about it.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 20, 2014)

_kbnft said:


> Can someone write about the anti-gg who was considering suicide because of the harassment she recieved. Turns out she/he was behind the indiegogo fraudraiser.
> Im not sure if its connected with the dtoid journalist who was fired for writing about it.


 

I actually haven't heard much on that. I'd be interesting in knowing more if anyone is privy to that info.

On that topic, though, here's a good summary of the Destructoid blackmail scandal. The article was a bit long, so this makes it a bit easier to swallow.






Look at this brave nobleman, valiantly leading the charge against... people with depression. Hmmm. Remember, it's the people calling for accountability and responsibility who are the bullies.

Also, you can pretty much ignore the GamerGate wikipedia article at this point. It's gone full recursive:



Spoiler













> Richard Nixon was not a crook^1.
> 
> ^1 Nixon, Richard. "I am not a crook!"


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 21, 2014)

http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/another-long-collection-of-thoughts_19.html#more

I see this guy's name come up in a lot of tangential discussions to all this and read that because I was bored. They may be the kernel of some interesting points in there but it did amuse me otherwise.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 21, 2014)

A lot of people have been calling GamerGate a "right wing" movement. They often claim that this is being led by fringe conservatives or Republicans or some other big bad boogeyman. This is a bit old, but some people decided to actually take a poll...



Spoiler: Muh right wing conspiracy










 
You can go to http://www.politicalcompass.org/test if you'd like to try it for yourself. Feel free to post the results here. I'm a level 5 left-leaning social libertarian!

*Also*, I know this is way, way, way overdue, but I finally found some of those tweets where the other side wafers between calling themselves bloggers and journalists. Only one month later!

*Also, also*... Another article from Milo "Greek Husbando" Yiannopoulos.



> There's the Intel vice president who told me via email that GamerGate was "doing great work" and that he was "sick of slander and self-loathing from the press". He was talking about male journalists who do misandrist feminists' work for them.
> 
> "I am pressing that team, it's not mine, but I am exerting influence when I can, to stop spending money with people who hate themselves and hate our clients," he added by phone later.
> 
> ...


 
*Insert stirring TTGL soundtrack here*



FAST6191 said:


> http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/another-long-collection-of-thoughts_19.html#more
> 
> I see this guy's name come up in a lot of tangential discussions to all this and read that because I was bored. They may be the kernel of some interesting points in there but it did amuse me otherwise.


 
Ah, good old MovieBob. That guy's got some issues. Like, serious issues. A bit funny to hear him lambast anyone for a "campaign of hate and harassment" when he's the guy who tried to get a teenager arrested for not liking his videos.

Then again, this is the guy who not only thinks that Other M is a near-flawless masterpiece (which I vehemently disagree with, but whatever, different folks, different strokes), but also that anyone who doesn't like it is Japanophobic and sexist. The guy's the master of bad opinions.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Oct 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Sense


 
I swear, 90% 100% of your posts go perfectly with that signature image of yours.


----------



## bkifft (Oct 21, 2014)

In regards to those "funny tweets" by Gawker higherups: turns out Adobe isn't a big fan of bullying and using their logo without their consent: https://twitter.com/Adobe/status/524625011919708160 (https://archive.today/AVz8m).


edit: take a guess what reaction that provoked. Right, 100% of all "creative Mac users" (read: hipsters) are proclaiming to switch to gimp: https://twitter.com/search?q=adobe gimp&src=typd (snapshot: https://archive.today/J7wuM)


----------



## Veho (Oct 22, 2014)

https://archive.today/O966o


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 22, 2014)

Veho said:


> https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6



But but but he played American football.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 22, 2014)

For a company that sure loves to profess about "social justice" (including how the term "Southern Belle" is racist because there were also slaves in the South, you ignominious shitlord), Gawker seems to have no problem working their interns like slave labor.

Who'da thunk?

Speaking of hypocrisy...



Spoiler: It's only okay when it's people I disagree with











 
It's also interesting to note that Johnathon McIntosh, her boyfriend/producer/writer/stand user, became famous for his own remix videos. Whoops.



Veho said:


> *snip*


 
Archive.Today that shit, son. God damn.


----------



## bkifft (Oct 22, 2014)

Quite the recurring theme it seems: Holier than thou person hasn't got an as clear vest as they want, in this case Mr. Kluwe: https://archive.today/2zbOd Confirmed rape jokes and alleged yet unrefuted "didn't care they had sex with underage girl". Oh my.

edit: sargon (warning: batshit crazy MRA tendencies) did another one of his funny as hell analysis vids about a recent interview:


----------



## Veho (Oct 22, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Archive.Today that shit, son. God damn.


Sorry, sorry. Edited.


----------



## DrOctapu (Oct 22, 2014)

Veho said:


> https://archive.today/O966o


 
who is this guy and why should anyone care
he writes like an angsty teenager, he seems completely unwilling to actually think, and he doesn't seem noteworthy whatsoever
as far as i can tell his greatest achievement is football
or something
what a champion


----------



## bkifft (Oct 22, 2014)

DrOctapu said:


> who is this guy and why should anyone care
> he writes like an angsty teenager, he seems completely unwilling to actually think, and he doesn't seem noteworthy whatsoever
> as far as i can tell his greatest achievement is football
> or something
> what a champion


 
He also played a Troll Rogue with one of the better US WoW Guilds for a few years. Therefore it's right to say: he was a troll on the internet.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 23, 2014)

She still thinks she makes games, that's cute. And there I thought that the word _"game"_ strongly implies the existence of _"gameplay"_ in the product.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 23, 2014)

Alex Lifschitz, the trust fund baby of a multi-millionaire, has become a master at the art of projection.



Spoiler










 
Quickly, someone get him to the local AMC before the next showing of Gone Girl!

Also, Gawker is in full damage control mode, and by that, I mean they're lashing out at anyone they can in what one hopes is a downward death spiral.

https://archive.today/n4OYz
https://archive.today/n4OYz

Grab some popcorn. It's gonna be nice.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 24, 2014)

Hey guys, I'm having trouble finding a image roundup of what Nathan Grayson/the rest of the bloggers did for Zoe Quinn. I know it was posted here but I can't find it.


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## Gahars (Oct 24, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Hey guys, I'm having trouble finding a image roundup of what Nathan Grayson/the rest of the bloggers did for Zoe Quinn. I know it was posted here but I can't find it.


 

This should help, at the very least. 

http://theralphretort.com/zoe-quinn-couldnt-have-made-depression-quest-without-grayson/

That's also an interesting lead.


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## Sterling (Oct 24, 2014)

They did, thanks. They should at least highlight the fact that these two go a bit deeper than a simple article.


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## Veho (Oct 24, 2014)

Gahars said:


> This should help, at the very least.



404


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## Gahars (Oct 24, 2014)

Veho said:


> 404


 
Hmm...

http://www.historyofgamergate.com/

The page seems to be working just fine, and you can click through the contents normally. Call Jerry Seinfeld because I have no idea what's up with that.


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## Veho (Oct 24, 2014)

They changed the title I guess, this one works:  http://www.historyofgamergate.com/a-peoples-history.html


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## Gahars (Oct 25, 2014)

Remember: There is no collusion. There are no blacklists. You're just crazy.






If you don't recognize the name, he's the founder of IGDA. What does IGDA do? Why, let's ask the New York Times.



> Still, game companies have made some progress in their depiction of women in games, said Kate Edwards, the executive director of the association, *who works with companies to discourage them from employing racial and sexual stereotypes in their games*.


 
Well, that doesn't sound vague and kinda ominous at all.

*In brighter news...* Colgate will severing any existing and future ties with Gawker. Another one bites the dust...

And guys, can we get a little serious here? Because this is some seriously disgusting shit.






https://archive.today/uDFR2

I don't even know what to say here. I don't like Anita; I think she's a swindler and a professional victim, but capitalzing on a horrific tragedy for easy points and pointing the finger at all males is a new low. I'm not even mad, just disgusted.

If you want some reading/watching for a little perspective, here's some. I don't know.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 25, 2014)

Gahars said:


>


Sure thing, Anita.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Dann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Technical_College#2008_shooting


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## Gahars (Oct 26, 2014)

August: Gamers are dead!
October: Games are dead!

https://archive.today/TYVSW

Long live video games.



> To me, these anti-intellectual players, who want games to be “just games” and want criticism of them to be devoid of things like political and social context, are almost as worrisome as the horrifying, and criminal, actions of the harassers.


 
TL;DR: People don't like corruption and people pushing authoritative agendas into video games; this is bad. If my cohorts and I can't use video games as a tool for our own ends, then video games have no value.






Don't let the door hit you on the way out, buddy.

Also... an interesting compilation about Chris Kluwe and Newsweek journalist Taylor Wofford. Spoiler alert: They're full of shit.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 27, 2014)

On advertisers vs the world has anybody done any analysis on what losing advertisers like this might do to gawker? I can't imagine they are terribly different to most other online companies, online news, gossip rags and newspaper style things in general (their parent company is a private Cayman Islands affair so public info is a bit thin on the ground) and the interrupting of cash flows tends not to be great for said styles of companies.

I do also like the "People don't like gawker? Well this is a thoroughly new affair." narrative as well.

I keep asking these sorts of questions, I might have to have a chat with some accountant/finance friends, pull some data and generally do some analysis. No doubt the results would be dry as anything but seen as we have now gone through the "people we long suspected of being inept/cretins not only confirmed as such but reconfirmed as such" stage it might be worth looking into. Some have queried why a "movement" wanting to look into ethics issues in games related fields has not done much in the way of certain things (a fair question, though still a redirect of sorts) but I have also long wanted to look into Hollywood accounting in the game industry but I do not have the full set of skills required for that sort of thing.


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## Gahars (Oct 27, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> On advertisers vs the world has anybody done any analysis on what losing advertisers like this might do to gawker? I can't imagine they are terribly different to most other online companies, online news, gossip rags and newspaper style things in general (their parent company is a private Cayman Islands affair so public info is a bit thin on the ground) and the interrupting of cash flows tends not to be great for said styles of companies.
> 
> I do also like the "People don't like gawker? Well this is a thoroughly new affair." narrative as well.
> 
> I keep asking these sorts of questions, I might have to have a chat with some accountant/finance friends, pull some data and generally do some analysis. No doubt the results would be dry as anything but seen as we have now gone through the "people we long suspected of being inept/cretins not only confirmed as such but reconfirmed as such" stage it might be worth looking into. Some have queried why a "movement" wanting to look into ethics issues in games related fields has not done much in the way of certain things (a fair question, though still a redirect of sorts) but I have also long wanted to look into Hollywood accounting in the game industry but I do not have the full set of skills required for that sort of thing.


 

I forgot if I posted it before, but one of the Gawker writers stated that the company stood to lose "thousands, potentially millions" of dollars from the sponsor pull-outs (the phrasing might've been slightly different). However, that's still pretty vague, and since Gawker is a privately owned company iirc, there aren't any reports to share holders for us to scour.


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## Tiffani (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm late to the party so anyone feel free to correct and explain things. What I've heard about Gamergate is

-Zoe Quinn slept with various men who likely gave her favorable reviews, publicity, etc. She was called out for it and exposed, as well as the places those men worked for.

However, Felicia Day was recently doxxed by Gamergate guys for saying she was afraid of speaking about Gamergate. She joins other women who have been harassed and doxxed by Gamergate guys, like Brianna Wu and I can't remember the others. I think there was another one, but I'm not sure. This creates a huge disconnect to me because I don't see the connection between Day and Quinn? Now, I would assume that those of you here who support Gamergate would disavow this type of behavior, at least publicly. This brings up 2 possibilities. The first is that there are people in the Gamergate movement who have done these things with or without the approval of the movement as a whole. The other is that this is a targeted attempt by outside forces to disable the Gamergate movement by associating it with such reprehensible behavior. 

Anita Sarkeesian is related, but also not, to Gamergate. I'm not a fan of her cherry-picked stuff or just the whole "Women in Refrigerators" concept as a whole. I do believe the argument has merit, but isn't as pervasive as they would have you believe. However, I noticed up above a few posts that her Tweet about school shooters all being men and boys was being "disproven" by a few incidents where the shooter was female. The numbers of school shooters are about 97% male, so I think that number speaks for itself. That more than qualifies as "it's always men and boys". I think this is a case where the messenger stains the message. If this were someone else saying this exact same thing, you likely wouldn't feel as strongly about it.

Anyhow, there's a lot there for you guys to respond to, so I'll just leave with a question I wonder about. This is serious, by the way, it's not meant to be snarky or anything. The Gamergate name has been so drug through the shit and mud that wouldn't it be better to distance yourselves from the name and choose a different one? It's not fair, but the truth is that you'll never be taken seriously because of the actions of those who have committed these horrible things in the name of Gamergate. Even if those aren't really Gamergate members, the damage has been done. This is like a company using a swastika in their logo now, and that's really saying something considering that the swastika was around for thousands of years before the Nazi's corrupted its meaning. Gamergate doesn't have that history to fall back on.


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## Tiffani (Oct 27, 2014)

Gahars said:


> A writer from Medium goes through 1500 tweets directed at Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, looking for rape and death threats. She finds none. The mental gymnastics that follows, trying to claim any criticism or negative language counts as "harassment," is definitely impressive.


 


Whether this is true or not (I'm guessing it is, but who has the time to look through a bunch of tweets), it becomes invalidated by this-

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/...culinity-on-twitter-heres-what-happened-next/

This was about a week after the first story, when Sarkessian made those "shooters are always men" tweets. There's several rape threats in there.


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## Gahars (Oct 27, 2014)

I should be sitting on the toilet because this is a huge dump. ANYWAY...



Tiffani said:


> I'm late to the party so anyone feel free to correct and explain things. What I've heard about Gamergate is
> 
> -Zoe Quinn slept with various men who likely gave her favorable reviews, publicity, etc. She was called out for it and exposed, as well as the places those men worked for.
> 
> However, Felicia Day was recently doxxed by Gamergate guys for saying she was afraid of speaking about Gamergate. She joins other women who have been harassed and doxxed by Gamergate guys, like Brianna Wu and I can't remember the others. I think there was another one, but I'm not sure. This creates a huge disconnect to me because I don't see the connection between Day and Quinn? Now, I would assume that those of you here who support Gamergate would disavow this type of behavior, at least publicly. This brings up 2 possibilities. The first is that there are people in the Gamergate movement who have done these things with or without the approval of the movement as a whole. The other is that this is a targeted attempt by outside forces to disable the Gamergate movement by associating it with such reprehensible behavior.


 
This is forgetting those on the GamerGate who have been harassed, doxxed, and threatened. KingofPol had a knife sent to his house, Milo received threats and a syringe in the mail, Mike Cernovich was driven from his home thanks to false police reports, Boogie, JonTron, Christina Sommers, TotalBiscuit, and countless other personalities have been attacked, slandered, and harassed. Of course, the mainstream media has yet to report on any of these, so I understand how that's easy to miss, but this isn't coming from one side.

You are right, though, that GamerGate does not endorse or condone those threats in any way, shape, or form. Even on 8chan, the image board "too extreme for 4chan," calls for threats, violence, etc. are immediately reported, dismissed, and laughed out. The problem is twofold. The first is that anyone can use a hashtag and say they're "Gamergate," much the same way that anyone could claim to be a member of "Anonymous." (Remember lulzsec?) The GamerGate harassment patrol does its best to report these people (and it's pretty fast about it), but it's an inherent vulnerability in any campaign. The second issue is that GamerGate is prominent. This is big news, especially when certain individuals get threatened; it's the sort of stage that trolls are naturally drawn to.

Besides, iirc, Felicia Day wasn't even doxxed. I recall that someone had just posted the address to her talent agency, which was publicly available on their website. If she was, it's that publicity problem again; she's a celebrity to a certain extent, which makes her a target for trolls. It happens to any major personality. It's not a GamerGate problem or a gamer problem; at its essence, it's an anonymity problem, one that will exist as long as people can be anonymous online. Any freedom, unfortunately, comes with those who would abuse that freedom. As the Japanese say, "Shikata ga nai."

TotalBiscuit, someone who's been dealing with this for years now, has a very helpful post on the matter: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sd042v



Tiffani said:


> Anita Sarkeesian is related, but also not, to Gamergate. I'm not a fan of her cherry-picked stuff or just the whole "Women in Refrigerators" concept as a whole. I do believe the argument has merit, but isn't as pervasive as they would have you believe. However, I noticed up above a few posts that her Tweet about school shooters all being men and boys was being "disproven" by a few incidents where the shooter was female. The numbers of school shooters are about 97% male, so I think that number speaks for itself. That more than qualifies as "it's always men and boys". I think this is a case where the messenger stains the message. *If this were someone else saying this exact same thing, you likely wouldn't feel as strongly about it.*


 
That's just wrong.

Anita Sarkeesian gets brought up mostly because she inserted herself in the conversation. The point was that saying these crimes are "always" by men is factually wrong, even if it is not the majority. The real issue, however, is that the very idea of pinning these crimes as something inherent to men because they are men is a bigoted, sexist statement. At it's core, it is little different than seeing that blacks are disproportionately more likely to commit robbery and arguing that it must be because of something inherent to their race.

The real problem is mental health and instability. Shamelessly ignoring that reality to score cheap political points on the eve of a tragedy (and acting oh so shocked, "Golly gee, I was just thinking out loud!" when people are understandably pissed) is beyond despicable, no matter who is saying it.



Tiffani said:


> Anyhow, there's a lot there for you guys to respond to, so I'll just leave with a question I wonder about. This is serious, by the way, it's not meant to be snarky or anything. The Gamergate name has been so drug through the shit and mud that wouldn't it be better to distance yourselves from the name and choose a different one? It's not fair, but the truth is that you'll never be taken seriously because of the actions of those who have committed these horrible things in the name of Gamergate. Even if those aren't really Gamergate members, the damage has been done. This is like a company using a swastika in their logo now, and that's really saying something considering that the swastika was around for thousands of years before the Nazi's corrupted its meaning. Gamergate doesn't have that history to fall back on.


 

Get out, shill.

Seriously, though, that'd be an awful idea. GamerGate has recognition. The hashtag has been used millions of times. It's lasted since August, far longer than anyone could have imagined. Its supporters have had their names dragged through the mud, but we're gamers; we're used to that by now. Any new moniker would be similarly slandered; all it would do is divide people and make them easier to marginalize.

Besides, it's working. For all these people may bluster and scream, you better believe they're taking this seriously; how else could you explain all the coordinated pushbacks? Honestly, I think they're scared. Gawker, Gamasutra, and the rest of these publications are bleeding sponsors; a few of them have even had to turn to Google Adsense. The longer it lasts, the more damage it'll do, and the more people it'll encourage to speak out. The emperor has no clothes, and now everyone's getting a full frontal look.

And if we're going to go to strong analogies here (Nazis, really?), saying that GamerGate is invalidated because of a small handful of trolls would be like saying the civil rights movement was invalidated because of the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers. It seems more like an excuse to dismiss it than anything else.



Tiffani said:


> Whether this is true or not (I'm guessing it is, but who has the time to look through a bunch of tweets), it becomes invalidated by this-
> 
> http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/...culinity-on-twitter-heres-what-happened-next/
> 
> This was about a week after the first story, when Sarkessian made those "shooters are always men" tweets. There's several rape threats in there.


 
Cherrypicked examples from how many thousands upon thousands of tweets? Besides, a lot of those "horrible" tweets aren't even inaccurate - if you make disgustingly ignorant statements, no shit people are going to take offense and lash back. Racists receive an avalanche of hate, so is it any surprise that it happens to sexists, too?

Also, I love how "Eat a dick" is sexual harassment now... and that "cunt" is held as the worst slur imaginable; imagine if these people went to Australia. God, they're even shocked by "Fuck." Is the author that desperate for material or just that sheltered?

Anyway, here's some reading: https://medium.com/@cainejw/a-statistical-analysis-of-gamergate-utilizing-newsweek-data-e2bada31ea7e


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## Foxi4 (Oct 27, 2014)

I've lost interests. Both parties have crossed the line at this point and both have forgotten what they're fighting for. SJW's will spit poison at anyone anyways because vaginas are at stake _(for some reason)_, #GamerGate supporters will support anything as long as they can cause some lulz and troll the SJW's. The number of people actually fighting for a cause is very limited, this is a problem with most kinds of activism. Lots of users participate on either side not because they honestly believe in the respective causes but because they just get to be a part of a group.



The big problem with GamerGate is that yes, advertisers retreat from certain outlets, but the consistent flow of GamerGate news amounts to tons upon tons of clickbait articles that both parties will visit either to support them or to find hooks against the other party - that's an effect opposite to the one GamerGate wants, thus their strategy is counter-effective. The whole argument has become a fight between two snow forts, much to the benefit of the media. The narrative has been effectively spun to their advantage, the best thing you can do is to stop visiting outlets that are somehow entangled in the corruption web.

Of course it goes without saying that I decry threatening any individual, be it by GamerGaters or by Anti-GamerGaters - that's just immature and it would be great if both parties shunned their members for stooping to that level, the argument of force is inferior to the force of an argument.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 27, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Gahars being Gahars


 
Once again, your signature is in full swing.


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## Gahars (Oct 27, 2014)

Spoiler: Lest we forget...











 
So playable female characters are sexist, and not having playable female characters is sexist. Gee, Jon, it's almost as if you have no actual interest in accomplishing anything and instead waste your time trying to turn everything into some sort of hidden misogynistic, patriarchal conspiracy.

Oh, you!



Foxi4 said:


> I've lost interests. Both parties have crossed the line at this point and both have forgotten what they're fighting for. SJW's will spit poison at anyone anyways because vaginas are at stake _(for some reason)_, #GamerGate supporters will support anything as long as they can cause some lulz and troll the SJW's. The number of people actually fighting for a cause is very limited, this is a problem with most kinds of activism. Lots of users participate on either side not because they honestly believe in the respective causes but because they just get to be a part of a group.


 
I understand where you're coming from, but I guess I'm just a bit more optimistic. There's people in it for the laughs (and boy, there are tons of them), but the fact that it's lasted for so long and shows no sign of losing momentum is a good indication that it's not just some flash in the pan. It would've expired a while ago if it was solely driven by people looking for a cheap laugh, but the level of output (from the ongoing boycotts and letter campaigns to the charity drives and ongoing investigations) persists. Enough of an actual, legitimate interest exists to drive people.

You have to remember, too, that gamers are the sort of people that will grind endlessly for a single raid; it's a group practically groomed for a campaign of attrition.



Foxi4 said:


> *le trashyman hates recycling*


 
It's a good point from a decent episode, and that no doubt happens. That's why it's crucial that people keep getting the info out, provide reliable sources, etc. so that people can be well-informed and come to their own conclusions.



Foxi4 said:


> The big problem with GamerGate is that yes, advertisers retreat from certain outlets, but the consistent flow of GamerGate news amounts to tons upon tons of clickbait articles that both parties will visit either to support them or to find hooks against the other party - that's an effect opposite to the one GamerGate wants, thus their strategy is counter-effective. The whole argument has become a fight between two snow forts, much to the benefit of the media. The narrative has been effectively spun to their advantage, the best thing you can do is to stop visiting outlets that are somehow entangled in the corruption web.
> 
> Of course it goes without saying that I decry threatening any individual, be it by GamerGaters or by Anti-GamerGaters - that's just immature and it would be great if both parties shunned their members for stooping to that level - the argument of force is inferior to the force of an argument.


 
All the traffic in the world doesn't mean a thing without ad money to keep things afloat. Some people may go to those sites out of curiosity, sure, but I think the total net effect is that readers will see the publications for what they are and take their viewership elsewhere. This is the sort of thing that does long term damage to credibility and reader trust, and the longer GamerGate goes on, the more is going to come to light and the more it's going to stick.

Besides, I'd argue that the responses we're seeing do not reflect advantage; they reek of desperation. You don't attack companies for leaving you and call them "craven idiots" if you're all snug and cozy. They've lost control of the narrative because they're dealing with people that won't back down no matter how many smear pieces they put out.

Worry not, brother. The fire rises.


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## Tiffani (Oct 28, 2014)

Gahars, you're being pedantic, and it takes away from valid points you make. Do you really want to argue over the use of "always" when it comes to 97% vs. 100%. Is that what you really want the discussion to be about? This is like the smokescreens that FOX News uses in their neverending effort to undermine President Obama. The fact that you put up so much resistance to the word "always" is a giveaway that your argument isn't as strong as you would like it to be. In this case you're fighting a losing battle. The facts are, men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crime. That's because women are responsible for the vast majority of emotional crime, ie emotional abuse. We can't use physicality like men can, so we have to do everything we can in other areas to fight dirty.

And you are absolutely dead wrong about Sarkeesian coloring the message for you. You know how I know that? Because you completely misunderstood what she was saying. She was calling out the culture that boys grow up in, this is something that has been said countless times before by many different people. Did they get rape threats? No. What did she say that was so sexist? She stated facts that men are responsible for school shootings? Is that cherry-picked? Hell yeah, it is, but any outrage from that is mitigated by the fact that she was wrong by 3%. Election polls get a higher margin of error than that. What she said is no different than when people call out the gun culture in this country.

And please get off your high horse with this "strong analogies" shit. You know damn well that I wasn't equating Gamergate with the Nazi's, you're just trying to prop yourself up with that strawman argument. I brought up the swastika because it's the most well-known symbol that's been misused and corrupted by outside forces. This is the equivalent to the Gamergate name being misused and corrupted by outside forces. This is more of that smokescreen shit that takes away from your argument. Yes, Gamergate has recognition, but it has more negative recognition than positive.

Gamergate has already been marginalized in the eyes of many. Public perception is such that you guys are just a bunch of doxxing thugs who pick on defenseless women. Is that accurate? No. Is it fair? No. But that's perception, and a reddit circle-jerk isn't going to help that. Hey, I wish you guys could bankrupt Gawker and all their shitty sites, but that's not going to happen. The best you guys can do is to make Gawker actually try to be better at what they do. Sponsers might leave Gawker, but that's because companies are so afraid of any negative publicity that they distance themselves from it as quickly as they can. 

One last thing. I'm glad you brought up The Black Panthers. They're a perfect example of what I'm talking about here, though on a much larger scale. The Black Panthers were a good group in the beginning, and they brought about a lot of needed changes. But then things changed, and now the Panthers are thought of negatively. The Black Panthers were for a good cause, just as Gamergate is. The Panthers are thought of negatively by a loot of people now, just as Gamergate is. There's a direct correlation here. One of the biggest problems facing you guys right now is that you lack a public leader. That's why your message has gone so astray.


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## Veho (Oct 28, 2014)




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## Gahars (Oct 28, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> Gahars, you're being pedantic, and it takes away from valid points you make. Do you really want to argue over the use of "always" when it comes to 97% vs. 100%. Is that what you really want the discussion to be about? This is like the smokescreens that FOX News uses in their neverending effort to undermine President Obama. The fact that you put up so much resistance to the word "always" is a giveaway that your argument isn't as strong as you would like it to be. In this case you're fighting a losing battle. The facts are, men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crime. That's because women are responsible for the vast majority of emotional crime, ie emotional abuse. We can't use physicality like men can, so we have to do everything we can in other areas to fight dirty.


 
It's not being pedantic to say that it doesn't solely happen by men especially when her argument is that it's something inherent to men that causes shootings. Besides, that wasn't even the main argument, more of a side note; you seem to be putting more emphasis on it than I did.

It's also worth pointing out that the number of school shootings over the past few decades is incredibly small, comparatively speaking. One is one too many, of course, but those committing these crimes represent only a percent of a percent of a percent of men. Considering the fact that the vast majority of men never once commit a school shooting, let alone a shooting of any kind, arguing that "masculinity" is inherently tied to shootings is an obviously spurious, baseless claim.



Tiffani said:


> And you are absolutely dead wrong about Sarkeesian coloring the message for you. You know how I know that? Because you completely misunderstood what she was saying. She was calling out the culture that boys grow up in, this is something that has been said countless times before by many different people. Did they get rape threats? No. What did she say that was so sexist? She stated facts that men are responsible for school shootings? Is that cherry-picked? Hell yeah, it is, but any outrage from that is mitigated by the fact that she was wrong by 3%. Election polls get a higher margin of error than that. What she said is no different than when people call out the gun culture in this country.


 
It's a repugnant claim no matter who makes it. Do you think I nodded along when others have said it, but only took offense when Sarkeesian made a tweet? "Wait, Anita Sarkeesian thinks that! Damn, I hate it now! Down with this sort of thing!"

You're forgetting that she didn't just say "Men are responsible for most school shootings." She was arguing that the root cause of these shootings was the fact that they were men, and that something had to be done to stop men from being, well, men. If you want to say that poor access to metal health services is a problem, that we need to make men with mental issues more willing to seek treatment rather than shrug it off, or anything like that, you'd better believe I'd be the first in line to support that, because it's a reasonable approach to a serious problem.

You seem to be focusing on the numbers when it's what the posts were actually suggesting, explicitly and implicitly, that people find so offensive.



Tiffani said:


> And please get off your high horse with this "strong analogies" shit. You know damn well that I wasn't equating Gamergate with the Nazi's, you're just trying to prop yourself up with that strawman argument. I brought up the swastika because it's the most well-known symbol that's been misused and corrupted by outside forces. This is the equivalent to the Gamergate name being misused and corrupted by outside forces. This is more of that smokescreen shit that takes away from your argument. Yes, Gamergate has recognition, but it has more negative recognition than positive.
> 
> Gamergate has already been marginalized in the eyes of many. Public perception is such that you guys are just a bunch of doxxing thugs who pick on defenseless women. Is that accurate? No. Is it fair? No. But that's perception, and a reddit circle-jerk isn't going to help that. Hey, I wish you guys could bankrupt Gawker and all their shitty sites, but that's not going to happen. The best you guys can do is to make Gawker actually try to be better at what they do. Sponsers might leave Gawker, but that's because companies are so afraid of any negative publicity that they distance themselves from it as quickly as they can.


 
Godwin's Law is a thing for a reason. 

Besides, of course GamerGate has a bad reputation; it's up against a press that will slander it at every available opportunity. Do you think that if everyone abandoned the hashtag and changed the name to "GamerGroupHug" that the notoriety would end? That the hit pieces would stop? That those trolling both sides would move on to greener pastures?

I'll let you decide, but the answer is no.

For whatever notoriety it may have, GamerGate is a brand that people recognize and one that only continues to grow. You don't retreat when you're winning.

Do some people get initial bad impressions? Sure, but that's why it's so crucial to collect as much information as possible and make it freely available so that others may decide for themselves. Of course, it also helps that GamerGate communities tend to skew towards free speech (compare r/KotakuInAction, where anti-GG posts are welcomed for discussion, to r/GamerGhazi, where anything less than abject hate for GamerGate, including ambivalence, is a banworthy offense).



Tiffani said:


> One last thing. I'm glad you brought up The Black Panthers. They're a perfect example of what I'm talking about here, though on a much larger scale. The Black Panthers were a good group in the beginning, and they brought about a lot of needed changes. But then things changed, and now the Panthers are thought of negatively. The Black Panthers were for a good cause, just as Gamergate is. The Panthers are thought of negatively by a loot of people now, just as Gamergate is. There's a direct correlation here. One of the biggest problems facing you guys right now is that you lack a public leader. That's why your message has gone so astray.


 

Except that's not the case here at all. The Black Panthers weren't a movement in and of themselves; they were a radical sect that split from the Civil Rights Movement their trappings in the pursuit of extreme, militaristic action. If anyone's the Black Panthers here, it's the trolls, though I doubt many of them look nearly as stylish as the Black Panthers.

Now, has the message gone astray? The focus may have expanded a bit from ethics in games journalism to some other journalism sources, but people have been laying into that pretty thick. Without a singular leader, it's risen and lasted longer than anyone could have ever expected. Sure, there's downsides; distractions happen, and it's easy for people to get too caught up in the happenings. However, by staying in the collective, it helps protect against the sort of coopting that destroyed the Occupy Wall Street movement, and it gives the press no easy target for character assassination. If a prominent figure in GamerGate does something stupid or goes extreme, they can easily be discarded and ignored as everyone else presses on.

The reason the press demands GamerGate choose a leader is because they want someone specifically they can go after. For once, they don't have that, and their old tactics aren't working for them. Why make it easy for them?


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## Tiffani (Oct 28, 2014)

No, you're missing the point. Sarkeesian said that it's the toxic culture of masculinity that causes these shootings. It's what also causes domestic abuse, rapes, etc. It's the whole "Be a man!" mentality that too many people have. When a young boy hurts himself on the playground, too many people say  "You're all right, stop crying." or "What's wrong with you? Why are you crying?"This leads to too many men internalizing their feelings and not learning to deal with them. The way we raise our boys directly leads to this kind of stuff. This is inherent to boys because we (as parents) make it inherent to them. Girls can cry but boys can't. Girls can play with dolls or trucks, but boys can only play with trucks. And on and on and on.

And obviously you don't know anything about The Black Panthers. They weren't violent, they worked hard to establish community programs for poor kids and health clinics and such. The murder and arrests of members led to a more violent group, but still nowhere near what some people think. 

And please spare me the "free speech" stuff. From what I've seen, both sides engage in rigorous censorship. I've been to the KotakuInAction reddit and there are exactly zero anti-Gamergate posts there. Anyone who expressed even the slightest hint of being against the movement is downvoted to hell. It's the same on GamerGhazi. Both sides are so fully dug in that they refuse to have anything to do with the other side.

And what's this about winning? Neither side is winning. And your quote here is very telling, " If a prominent figure in GamerGate does something stupid or goes extreme, they can easily be discarded and ignored as everyone else presses on." This isn't true at all. If someone you are associated with does something crazy, that reflects on you. If you refer someone to a job, and they do a shitty job and get fired, you better believe that reflects poorly on you. Part of your reputation comes from who you associate with. 

You're also forgetting that when you can't put a human face on something, it's harder to get attached to it and drum up support. It's why when they make those "feed starving kids in Africa" commercials they show the kids. The anti-Gamergate people can point to Felicia Day (who was really doxxed, btw) and use that against you guys, to try to paint you all as thuggish brutes who pick on defenseless women. Is that manipulative and dirty? Absolutely, but so is sending mass, form letter complaints in to Gawker advertisers in order to hurt them. Both sides have gotten their hands very dirty here.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 28, 2014)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

Apparently women are responsible for 70% of demestic violence in nonreciprocally violent relationships - good to know.

Tiffani, if we start segregating people by gender when it comes to violence, we might as well lock up all black males preemptively - after all, most offenders are black, right? Oh, wait... That's racism, we shouldn't do that, huh...

I don't like the idea that a lump of flesh between someone's legs is blamed for that person's poor life choices. Crime is a socio-cultural issue, gender has little biological impact on it.


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## Kalker3 (Oct 28, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> And please spare me the "free speech" stuff. From what I've seen, both sides engage in rigorous censorship. I've been to the KotakuInAction reddit and there are exactly zero anti-Gamergate posts there. Anyone who expressed even the slightest hint of being against the movement is downvoted to hell. It's the same on GamerGhazi. Both sides are so fully dug in that they refuse to have anything to do with the other side.


 

Sorry but no, that's wrong. There have been several AMAs (Ask Me Anything) by anti-gamergate redditors in r/KiA who are well received. On the other hand, any neutral statement in r/GamerGhazi and r/GirlGamers gets the user banned from the subreddit. Moreover, any post related to GamerGate submitted to r/Gaming and r/Games gets deleted.

I won't deny that anti-gamergate comments often get downvoted, however it's only that. They're downvoted, not banned from the sub.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 28, 2014)

Kalker3 said:


> I won't deny that anti-gamergate comments often get downvoted, however it's only that. They're downvoted, not banned from the sub.


 
Not to mention that this isn't a GamerGate-exclusive issue by any means. The general population of Reddit as a whole seems unable to grasp that downvotes aren't meant to express disagreement (speaking as an avid Redditor). Spend just a day in subreddits like /r/wiiu and /r/360, and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.


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## Kalker3 (Oct 28, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Not to mention that this isn't a GamerGate-exclusive issue by any means. The general population of Reddit as a whole seems unable to grasp that downvotes aren't meant to express disagreement (speaking as an avid Redditor). Spend just a day in subreddits like /r/wiiu and /r/360, and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.


 

Indeed, downvotes are only used, or rather, supposed to be used when the comment is irrelevant to the discussion. You even get a warning when downvoting stuff on /r/PCGaming telling you that.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 28, 2014)

Kalker3 said:


> You even get a warning when downvoting stuff on /r/PCGaming telling you that.


 
Tons of subreddits do that (including /r/wiiu), and it doesn't seem to mean anything to people.


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## Gahars (Oct 28, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> No, you're missing the point. Sarkeesian said that it's the toxic culture of masculinity that causes these shootings. It's what also causes domestic abuse, rapes, etc. It's the whole "Be a man!" mentality that too many people have. When a young boy hurts himself on the playground, too many people say "You're all right, stop crying." or "What's wrong with you? Why are you crying?"This leads to too many men internalizing their feelings and not learning to deal with them. The way we raise our boys directly leads to this kind of stuff. This is inherent to boys because we (as parents) make it inherent to them. Girls can cry but boys can't. Girls can play with dolls or trucks, but boys can only play with trucks. And on and on and on.


 
Yeah, when you call the very idea of being a man and being masculine toxic, there's the problem. When you're conflating "being masculine" with "being an asshole," there's the problem. This viewpoint is inherently wrongheaded because it views (general) male behavior through the lens of (general) female behavior, and assumes that men are suffering because they aren't like women. Men just express themselves in different ways from women (again, generally speaking), and to dismiss that as somehow inferior to the female standard is, frankly, pretty sexist.

Plus, I love how "being masculine" is so casually conflated with "being an asshole" now, as if we all look up to douchebags and think, "Damn, now that's how you be a man." Assumptions, assumptions...



Tiffani said:


> And obviously you don't know anything about The Black Panthers. *They weren't violent*, they worked hard to establish community programs for poor kids and health clinics and such. The murder and arrests of members led to a more violent group, but still nowhere near what some people think.


 
Attacks, robberies, shoot outs, etc. Many members were well-intentioned, sure, but let's not beat around the bush here.



Tiffani said:


> And please spare me the "free speech" stuff. From what I've seen, both sides engage in rigorous censorship. I've been to the KotakuInAction reddit and there are exactly zero anti-Gamergate posts there. Anyone who expressed even the slightest hint of being against the movement is downvoted to hell. It's the same on GamerGhazi. Both sides are so fully dug in that they refuse to have anything to do with the other side.


 
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jykfj/hiya_im_an_antigg_ama/
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2kiwyl/i_am_jesse_singal_a_journalist_who_has_been/
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jd1e0/hey_georgina_young_here_talking_about_why_im/ (On the fence, but such an AMA would've been banned on r/GamerGhazi)

There's downvotes from individual users, sure, but as others have said, that's an endemic problem to Reddit culture as a whole. The fact is, r/KotakuInAction will still host these discussions and allow them to go on while opposing subs will not.



Tiffani said:


> And what's this about winning? Neither side is winning. And your quote here is very telling, " If a prominent figure in GamerGate does something stupid or goes extreme, they can easily be discarded and ignored as everyone else presses on." This isn't true at all. If someone you are associated with does something crazy, that reflects on you. If you refer someone to a job, and they do a shitty job and get fired, you better believe that reflects poorly on you. Part of your reputation comes from who you associate with.


 
Neither side is winning? Gamasutra, Gawker, and other such publications are bleeding sponsors. They're having to resort to Google Adsense. The Fine Young Capitalists got their project funded and will help a female game developer get a footing in the industry. More and more stories of corruption and collusion, from the GameJournoPros list to the blackmailing of Allistair Pinsof, come out every day. Similarly, more and more devs and other crucial figures are speaking out. Hell, worthwhile charities are getting a helping hand. It's not a clean, decisive victory by any stretch of the imagination, but no one imagined there would be such a thing. It is steady, ongoing progress, though, despite all the setbacks and whatever else may come, and I've gotta be honest, it feels preeeeety nice.

Onto the other point... That is very true. These people might support GamerGate, these people might become notable within GamerGate, but the crucial difference is, they _aren't_ GamerGate. They're individuals in a large, faceless collective of people that have all managed to coalesce on this one particular matter. In a movement as fluid and freeform as this one, where anyone could pick up the mantle at any point and then discard it just as quickly (same with Anonymous, as mentioned previously), you can't really define it by cherrypicking individual members, and your analogy doesn't really reflect that fact at all. These are two entirely different situations and contexts.



Tiffani said:


> You're also forgetting that when you can't put a human face on something, it's harder to get attached to it and drum up support.


 
That certainly hasn't stopped GamerGate so far. Why change now?



Tiffani said:


> It's why when they make those "feed starving kids in Africa" commercials they show the kids. The anti-Gamergate people can point to Felicia Day (who was really doxxed, btw) and use that against you guys, to try to paint you all as thuggish brutes who pick on defenseless women. Is that manipulative and dirty? Absolutely, but so is sending mass, form letter complaints in to Gawker advertisers in order to hurt them. Both sides have gotten their hands very dirty here.


 
And that sort of defamation wouldn't stop if GamerGate elected a central figurehead. It'd only increase, and now have a specific person to target.

Besides, how is the letter writing campaign dirty or manipulative in any way? These messages just quote Gawker (or the other targeted sites) and its employees on what they've said. As far as consumer action goes, it's as direct and honest as it gets. If you show contempt for your audience and insult your readers, among other things, this is a natural, rational consequence.

If people were DDOSing the sites or using other means to take them down, those would be dirty targets. Here, the publications made their own grave and keep digging themselves in deeper. They're free to write and publish whatever they like, but they aren't entitled to sponsorship.



Foxi4 said:


> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
> 
> Apparently women are responsible for 70% of demestic violence in nonreciprocally violent relationships - good to know.
> 
> ...


 

WON'T SOMEBODY STOP THIS TOXIC FEMININITY? inb4 #NotAllWomen


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> WON'T SOMEBODY STOP THIS TOXIC FEMININITY? inb4 #NotAllWomen


This whole third-wave feminism shtick hangs on a thin thread claiming that _"men"_ despise women and imposed gender roles specifically to spite them wheras in reality that's obviously not the case - the entire society accepted gender roles as mutually beneficial in the initial stages of human civilization and those rules spring not from a fleeting fancy of men, but from the biological order pre-ordained for us by nature.

I've recently read an interesting comment specifically about the issue and I have to say, it made perfect sense. In a completely theoretical scenario, one man can impregnate a hundred women, but no woman can birth a hundred children, that's just biologically impossible. As such, men are actually _the expendable element_ of our society wheras women were, and in many cases still are, enveloped by a protective umbrella. Over the course of thousands of years men were responsible for one thing and one thing only - protecting and providing for their women, who are indispensable in order to survive as a species. This order was orchestrated not by men, but by our genetics. Century after century it was the men that fought territorial wars while women were revered for their fertility and, in certain cultures, wisdom, safe within human settlements. Men were the external force, women were the force of internal influence, the axis around which the whole mechanism revolved.

This order of things shifted in the recent centuries - men no longer fight territorial wars nor do they hunt for sustenance, those times are simply over. This opened up a world of opportunities for women, hence the feminist movement and the motion to give both genders equal rights - I'm all for that, the times have indeed changed. In a lot of ways, men as a sex have outlived their original purpose, evolution can't quite catch up with the rapid pace of human development, which is a sad prospect come to think of it.

The point I'm driving at here is that believing in the mantra that men and women are the same other than the reproductive organs is a load of croak. We should all have equal _rights_ and equal _duties_, but we should also embrace the fact that we're different and as such we have different natural predispositions and talents. This is not me being sexist, this is me being observant - thousands of years of survival have shaped our species in this way or another and that's just a fact.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...hy-men-are-better-at-map-reading-8978248.html

That's not to say that both men and women operate solely on the level of natural instincts - that's a preposterous and sexist claim, we're creatures of reason and we're better than that. With that in mind though, we're _"wired"_ differently, so yes - we'll think along different lines, we'll reach different conclusions and we'll often clash on many levels - that's what makes the two sexes perfect compliments of each other in the first place, that's the idea.

The answer to all of world's problems and more doesn't lay in feminism - to _(somewhat inaccurately)_ quote Thunderf00t, you can't fix problems of both sexes by focusing exclusively on one of them, social rules and standards should be set by means of compromise. The golden mean is usually somewhere in the middle.

[/tirade]


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## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I've recently read an interesting comment specifically about the issue and I have to say, it made perfect sense. In a completely theoretical scenario, one man can impregnate a hundred women, but no woman can birth 100 children, that's just biologically impossible. As such, men are actually _the expendable element_ of our society wheras women were, and in many cases still are, enveloped by a protective umbrella. Over the course of thousands of years men were responsible for one thing and one thing only - protecting and providing for their women, who are indispensable in order to survive as a species. This order was orchestrated not by men, but by our genetics. Century after century it was the men that fought territorial wars while women were revered for their fertility and, in certain cultures, wisdom. Men were the external force, women were the force of internal influence.


 
I'm going to go off on tangent here myself, but this is a good point. I know we're getting off topic here, but this is EoF, we can roll with it.

Sort of on this note... look at the oft-despised "Damsel in Distress" trope. A woman is captured and needs to be saved; the archetypical example is of a knight riding off to save a woman from the clutches from the dragon. On the one hand, one might argue that it "enforces" the idea that women are helpless and need to be saved by men... on the other hand, though, it also seems to be driven by a notion that men are expendable and have a duty to drop everything and protect women, even at the expense of their own lives. 

When "tropes" get brought up and discussed in the context of stories or old video games, I see a lot of people mistakenly assume that they're used to perpetuate gender roles or disenfranchise people, when instead they're used because they are basic storytelling traditions that have resonated with audiences for hundreds and hundreds of years. The damsel in distress is a cliche, sure, but it became a cliche because it's an easy device to weave a story around. Sometimes, simple is good, especially when the story isn't even the focus (like Double Dragon, where the establishing cutscene is 8 seconds long, give or take).

That's not to say it's always good, either. It can be lazy or hackneyed like anything. It all depends on the execution and the context. If we could talk about stories from this perspective, and also recognize that bad writing is more often to blame than any deliberate malice, we could probably have better, more enlightening discussions.

I mean, I know that doesn't get the clicks or the headlines, but it's nice to dream.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

That's the problem many people have with the damsel in distress trope. Everybody feels for the poor woman, nobody says _"well, that's a nice bloke!"_ anymore. Let's face it, if a f*cking dragon wants to kidnap you, it's gonna kidnap you regardless of what junk you have and you gotta to be either brave or stupid to go out of your way to save a person kidnapped by a dragon... the issue of dragons being mythical creatures aside. Huh... It's almost as if _we're designed to feel compassion towards the woman_, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.


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## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> That's the problem many people have with the damsel in distress trope. Everybody feels for the poor woman, nobody says _"well, that's a nice bloke!"_ anymore. Let's face it, if a f*cking dragon wants to kidnap you, it's gonna kidnap you regardless of what junk you have and you gotta to be either brave or stupid to go out of your way to save a person kidnapped by a dragon... the issue of dragons being mythical creatures aside. Huh... It's almost as if _we're designed to feel compassion towards the woman_, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.


 

Beyond that, it's not just what device or trope is used; what matters most is how it's used. Even a character in the "damsel" archetype can still be engaging, powerful, and compelling in her own right, while a "strong female protagonist" that effortlessly slaughters her enemies can be a rote, boring character.

When you look to certain arbitrary characteristics of writing (or art in general) to match a predetermined conclusion or to fit a checklist, you ignore the texture and nuances that matter most. And that's terrible.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Beyond that, it's not just what device or trope is used; what matters most is how it's used. Even a character in the "damsel" archetype can still be engaging, powerful, and compelling in her own right, while a "strong female protagonist" that effortlessly slaughters her enemies can be a rote, boring character.
> 
> When you look to certain arbitrary characteristics of writing (or art in general) to match a predetermined conclusion or to fit a checklist, you ignore the texture and nuances that matter most. And that's terrible.


You are absolutely right.

I need to head to the local game store and renew my Plus subscription - I've finished Mass Effect 1 and 2 last week and there's crewmates to be banged in Mass Effect 3. _;O;_


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## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

And before we get too off-topic on jolly cooperation...



Spoiler: The War on Fun











 
Who knew how prophetic this image would turn out to be?

*On Christina Sommers/The Factual Feminist/Based Mom...*

So, this is twofold. First, she published a new video on the GamerGate phenomenon.



Awesome!

Then she was scheduled to speak on MSNBC, which only gave her two minutes out of a promised five and tried to railroad her on soggy knees.



Spoiler







Oh, you!

On another note... Former Tory MP Louise Mensch has come in guns blazing.

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/527162616083668993
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/527163109283475457

For my fellow Americlaps, the Tory party is conservative (or, as I like to call them, "Righto-wing").


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

Lel, they mislabeled Dreamfall: Chapters as Bayonetta 2.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 29, 2014)

Gahars said:


> And before we get too off-topic on jolly cooperation...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That video hurt to watch... Good grief, he was trying SO HARD to steer what she had to say.


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## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> That video hurt to watch... Good grief, he was trying SO HARD to steer what she had to say.


 

Unfortunately, it's not even the first time she's had to deal with this. She gets laughed off for not following the groupthink, with the host literally citing "The Patriarchy" at 5:55 or so. (The rest of the video is an analysis/discussion. I'm not sure if it's any good, this is just the best video I could find of the segment.)

MSNBC is a joke, and I say that as a somewhat left-leaning Democrat. Give Fox News all the shit you want, but at least Bill O'Reilly can entertain.


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## DCG (Oct 29, 2014)

The "dox" on that Felicia was done by an account called internetaristocat, not internetaristocrat (note the R next to the C?)


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## Tiffani (Oct 29, 2014)

Well, if you guys want to start linking to abuse numbers we can do that all day.

http://www.ncadv.org/files/Domestic Violence Stylized--GS edits.pdf
1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experience some sort of violence within their lifetime.

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domestic_violence/resources/statistics.html
Intimate partner violence (IPV) made up of 20% of crime experience by men, 3% for men.

http://www.thehotline.org/resources/statistics/
30% of women and 10% of men have experienced rape, violence, or stalking.

See, the problem is you guys already have your minds made up, and all you want to do is try to find information that you think backs up what you're saying. You're not interested in finding truth, just something that validates your thoughts. 

Kalker3, is there any proof of what you're saying? I have yet to witness either side being anything but negative to the other. I want to see facts before we can declare something true. And not just some guy saying he got banned, let's see what he wrote and when. 
Foxi4, I never said anything about segregating men, that's ridiculous. Please don't put words in my mouth. I stated the fact that men are the vast majority when it comes to violent crime. I also stated what I believe to be fact (though there's no real way to quantify this) that women are the vast majority when it comes to what I call emotional crime.
Gahars, there's a very big difference between calling out a toxic culture and calling out an entire gender. I'll use the NFL as an example. There's plenty of people who have called out the toxic culture in the NFL locker rooms, but no one takes that as them damning the entire group of players. The fact that you don't see this shows how entrenched your views are, and how unwilling to accept anything else you are.
And who has ever said that being masculine is akin to being an asshole? Maybe a few bra-burning bitches, but then you associate that with all of us? And I'm the one who's assuming?
And I grew up in the time of the Panthers, so I know they weren't violent in the beginning. There were those who did violence in the name of the Panthers (sound familiar?) but those weren't true members.
Btw, your first link was pretty good, though one of the top comments is that that guy isn't so much anti-Gamergate as he is anti--asshole, which would describe me as well. Your second link is less useful. It's just some guy dodging questions and making the anti-Gamergate people look bad. Keeping it up does more harm to the other side than help them. In your 3rd link the chick is neutral,as you said. That doesn't prove your point. 
And you're wrong, Gawker isn't bleeding sponsors. I wish they were, but you're kidding yourself if you think that they're going away. 
Finally, come on, you can't act like having a form letter that people are supposed to use, and instructing them exactly how to change certain things "DO NOT COPY AND PASTE" isn't manipulative. The people doing that aren't doing it because they're legitimately offended, they're doing it in a thinly veiled attempt to hurt Gawker, etc. These people are instructing others on how to fabricate their emails to the sponsors, in order to be most effective. That's manipulative, you have to admit that. 
One final thing (for real this time), I do definitely agree that it's how the trope is used rather than what it is. My only quibble would be that if you make an interesting damsel then that rises above the damsel trope and thus is no longer a trope in my eyes. That's me, though.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 29, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> And who has ever said that being masculine is akin to being an asshole? Maybe a few bra-burning bitches, but then you associate that with all of us? And I'm the one who's assuming?


 
Aren't you doing the exact same thing when you point out that X percentage of men have committed Y crime more than women? As if that actually has any bearing on inherent masculinity as a whole.


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## Tiffani (Oct 29, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Aren't you doing the exact same thing when you point out that X percentage of men have committed Y crime more than women? As if that actually has any bearing on inherent masculinity as a whole.


 
No, not at all. I don't see how you get that. I'm pointing out the facts that men commit more violent crime than women do. You're assuming that I'm saying that X percentage of men who commit those crimes represent you all as a whole. I'm not saying that at all. The vast majority of those who commit those crimes are men, but they are the vast minority of all men in general. The fact that men are much more likely to commit violent crime then women speaks to the way that we, as parents, have failed some of them in how we raised them. It also speaks to the mental health issues that I believe Gahars spoke about (sorry, on mobile so hard to check right now). 
There's a large number of reasons why the men who commit these crimes do so. Maybe it's the way they were raised, maybe they got mistreated by a girl in their lives? We could go on and on and on because there's a huge number of reasons. 
There's a correlation between men and violent crime, there has to be. It's the only explanation as to why there is such a huge disparity between violent crimes committed by the 2 sexes. Perhaps that correlation is the mental health issues that Gahars brought up? Perhaps it's the parental issues that I've brought up? Maybe it's both? Maybe it's something else? Maybe it has to do with the differences between the brains of men and women? Maybe it just has to do with the fact that most men are bigger and stronger than women?
Foxi4 put the words in my mouth of segregation because of the increased percentage of black men committing violent crimes as opposed to white men. I know the correlation there, and it's poverty. Some of it is also racial. There's a litany of reasons more men commit violent crimes, and one of them happens to be gender. I think the problem is that you guys are misinterpreting my comments as somehow anti-men. There's a litany of reasons why your computer messes up, and one of them happens to be the hard drive. That doesn't mean that I want to get rid of hard drives or anything.
Anyone who says that masculinity is bad is an idiot, plain and simple. Just as those who say that femininity is bad are idiots.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 29, 2014)

That's fine and dandy, but i don't see what it has to do with GamerGate.


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## Tiffani (Oct 29, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> That's fine and dandy, but i don't see what it has to do with GamerGate.


 

Honestly, I have no idea. 
I think we got sidetracked with the whole Sarkeesian stuff. 
For the record, I agree with the "calling into question the ethics of certain sites" issue at the crux of the Gamergate movement. I don't really frequent that many sites, though, but I think it's a very important issue.


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## Kalker3 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> Kalker3, is there any proof of what you're saying? I have yet to witness either side being anything but negative to the other. I want to see facts before we can declare something true. And not just some guy saying he got banned, let's see what he wrote and when.


 
You want proof? Sure, I'll give you proof.

Proof that posting anti-GG comments on /r/KotakuInAction won't get you banned but doing the opposite on /r/gamerGhazi does. 

Pro-GG? BOOOM. Banned. 

I guess /r/GirlGamers don't feel like debating, even when the OP is a woman.

An AMA by an anti-GG redditor, gilded twice with nearly 600 upvotes.

Allistair Pinsof's AMA rejected by /r/Games. 

FEmale feminist banned from anti-GG sub for asking questions. 

I could go on, but if you need any more proof of "censorship" on ehm, both sides, please let me know.


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## Tiffani (Oct 29, 2014)

Well, those are troubling posts. I think the first one is too much of that "we don't want flamewars here so we'll just silence everyone" stuff that I hate. The second is a continuation of that. The 3rd and 5th ones, though, are on different subreddits, so I don't think they're fully applicable here. The 4th one is a fence-rider using a throwaway account who dodged questions. Definitely not a good look for any anti-Gamergate people.
The 6th one is something I really don't have time to read, but I'll assume is damning, based on the fact that you linked to it even though it's not on the Gamerghazi subreddit.
I hope you don't think me being critical of some of those links is me excusing anything. One time is too much, and there's no doubt that the stuff you showed me in those links is censorship. Whatever the reason, censorship is wrong. I hate when people say "we don't want any flamewar arguments here so we don't allow debate period". That's no way to conduct yourself, and gives you a bad name. Too bad we can't get those mods removed from their position.


----------



## Kalker3 (Oct 29, 2014)

I don't believe that anti-GG supporters are bad people. The actions of one person do not represent someone else.

I do believe however that many anti-GG supporters are uninformed either because of the constant attacks (<- NSFW by the way) from MSM or lack of research. For instance here's the the first paragraph on Wikipedia about it.



> Gamergate (sometimes referred to as GamerGate or as a hashtag #gamergate) is a controversy centering on misogyny and harassment in video game culture, the role of social commentary in game critiques, and ethics in video game journalism, particularly alleged conflicts of interest between video game journalists and developers. The controversy began in August 2014 and has occurred primarily over social media. A number of people, primarily women, working in the gaming industry in various capacities were subjected to an intense campaign of harassment and violent threats. It prompted increased attention to long-standing issues of sexism and misogyny in the gaming community.[1][2][3][4][5][6] A subsequent series of death threats against prominent women in gaming drew international media attention to the movement's association with violent harassment.[7][8][9] In response to what they considered attacks from the media, GamerGate supporters have increasingly focused on contacting companies advertising on gaming news outlets, resulting in several major companies pulling their support.[10][11]


 
Anyone who'd read this paragraph and wouldn't search anywhere else would automatically see GamerGate as an angry misogynist mob when in fact it's a consumer revolt.


----------



## Tiffani (Oct 29, 2014)

The biggest thing that sucks about this in my eyes is that the real issue has been obfuscated. This started as a discussion about journalist ethics, and now it's just about who's getting sexually harassed, threatened, etc. Both sides have had people behaving poorly. Many hours upon hours could be spent hashing out the fault and blame and who did what to whom first, but that's secondary. 
If the main issue is putting an end to the quid pro quo crap that's taken place, I'm all for it. I find that so reprehensible. Regardless of the other stuff, that's what I would like to see, honesty. Not favorable review scores or coverage in exchange for sex, or money, or early access to a game.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> The biggest thing that sucks about this in my eyes is that the real issue has been obfuscated. This started as a discussion about journalist ethics, and now it's just about who's getting sexually harassed, threatened, etc. Both sides have had people behaving poorly. Many hours upon hours could be spent hashing out the fault and blame and who did what to whom first, but that's secondary.


I agree with you here, 100%. I didn't care about _"Internet Harrasment"_ before GamerGate and I'm not going to start caring now. I don't care how many dicks Zoe Quinn can fit inside of her, that's none of my business. I don't care what horrible e-mails or tweets people face everyday - that kind of stuff is to be expected when you're a celebrity of any kind and if you can't stand the heat, perhaps you shouldn't put yourself in the kitchen. I want to hear about people dealing with the actual issue at hand, not faffing about, and it's the faffing that made me lose interest.

Imagine a scenario where the government has to pass a controversial bill, but instead of talking about the bill, they talk about the awful harassment they're facing everyday - poor victims, they need a hug. Jesus Christ, anyone would be upset over _that_, a normal human being would say _"just do your goddamn job, get on with it!"_, but that's not the case here strictly because both parties in the debate are more interested in throwing snowballs at each other than in having a sensible debate, and the media fueling the fire are not helping.

This is the problem of _"trending"_ and _"movements without representation"_ - if you don't have an imposed order in your movement, the ideology of the movement is open to debate and interpretation. If there's no official manifesto everyone's agreeing with, everyone's just going to follow their own ideals, and those aren't always as compatible as they seem.


----------



## war2thegrave (Oct 29, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> Finally, come on, you can't act like having a form letter that people are supposed to use, and instructing them exactly how to change certain things "DO NOT COPY AND PASTE" isn't manipulative. The people doing that aren't doing it because they're legitimately offended, they're doing it in a thinly veiled attempt to hurt Gawker, etc. These people are instructing others on how to fabricate their emails to the sponsors, in order to be most effective. That's manipulative, you have to admit that.


 
It doesn't really matter if it is.
The SJW's are using the video game journalism that we support with our clicks and our dollars
to belittle an entire group of people who don't like lazy, art house, liberal-arts degree propaganda
crammed in our faces, whenever some under-achieving trust fund baby decides that indie game
development is their flavor of the month.

They have a network of Journalists, multi-national media conglomerates, game developers, 
bloggers, secret e-mail lists, conferences, and public relations firms working for them.

How is that fair.

We are just a bunch of nobodies who happen to enjoy video games.

If you want to be in their club, you have to be a middle to upper middle-class white person 
with a liberal arts degree, pledge undying loyalty, and go to their cult meetings.

To be one of us, you can just rummage through gamestops $5.99 bargain bin until you find something you like.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

So I've written this all up, but I agree that we've got sidetracked. I think we have some fundamental differences in viewpoints, which is totally fine, but we're probably not going to settle them like this. We agree on a lot of the ethical concerns, and that's what really matters most.

I'll leave the politics in the spoilers just to show that I did consider your points and I'm not just brushing them off or anything like that. I'll be happy to agree to disagree, but we can keep on discussing them if that's what you prefer.



Spoiler






Tiffani said:


> Well, if you guys want to start linking to abuse numbers we can do that all day.
> 
> http://www.ncadv.org/files/Domestic Violence Stylized--GS edits.pdf
> 1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experience some sort of violence within their lifetime.
> ...


 
If we're playing the stats game, men make up almost 80% of all murder victims. That's kind of the be-all, end-all right there.

The point wasn't to seriously say, "This is something endemic to women!" It's that pulling these statistics for these cases and using them to make sweeping generalizations about all men or all women is a ludicrous, ridiculous argument.



Tiffani said:


> See, the problem is you guys already have your minds made up, *and all you want to do is try to find information that you think backs up what you're saying*. You're not interested in finding truth, just something that validates your thoughts.


 
Isn't that what you just did?



Tiffani said:


> Gahars, there's a very big difference between calling out a toxic culture and calling out an entire gender. I'll use the NFL as an example. There's plenty of people who have called out the toxic culture in the NFL locker rooms, but no one takes that as them damning the entire group of players. The fact that you don't see this shows how entrenched your views are, and how unwilling to accept anything else you are.


 
When you call masculinity a toxic culture, you are attacking the gender. We're not talking about sports teams or particular locker rooms, we're talking about half of the population being labeled toxic just because they're different from the other half.



Tiffani said:


> And who has ever said that being masculine is akin to being an asshole? Maybe a few bra-burning bitches, but then you associate that with all of us? And I'm the one who's assuming?


 


Tiffani said:


> No, you're missing the point. Sarkeesian said that it's the toxic culture of masculinity that causes these shootings. It's what also causes domestic abuse, rapes, etc. It's the whole "Be a man!" mentality that too many people have. ...The way we raise our boys directly leads to this kind of stuff. This is inherent to boys because we (as parents) make it inherent to them.


 
When you yourself link the "culture" of masculinity to crime and bullying, yeah, that's going to give readers that certain impression.



Tiffani said:


> This leads to too many men internalizing their feelings and not learning to deal with them... Girls can cry but boys can't. Girls can play with dolls or trucks, but boys can only play with trucks. And on and on and on.


 
And there comes the assumptions.

I'm sure you don't intend any malice, and please don't think I'm accusing you of "man-hating" or being a "bra-burning bitch" or anything like that. However, these sorts of claims are derogatory and, ultimately, ill-founded. Is it such a surprise that men take offense when they're called toxic for being men?



Tiffani said:


> And I grew up in the time of the Panthers, so I know they weren't violent in the beginning. There were those who did violence in the name of the Panthers (sound familiar?) but those weren't true members.


 
There's a reason they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but you can't "No True Scotsman" this away. If the Black Panthers were a hashtag or some internet moniker, that analogy would hold water, but these people were initiated into the organization and physically engaging in criminal activity with other members. There is a world of difference.


 


Tiffani said:


> Btw, your first link was pretty good, though one of the top comments is that that guy isn't so much anti-Gamergate as he is anti--asshole, which would describe me as well. Your second link is less useful. It's just some guy dodging questions and making the anti-Gamergate people look bad. Keeping it up does more harm to the other side than help them. In your 3rd link the chick is neutral,as you said. That doesn't prove your point.


 
I can't help that the respondent didn't reflect well on their side; however, the fact that they were still allowed to post and engage despite their behavior lends even more credence to the sub's commitment to free speech.

Like I said, the third one is relevant because neutrality is not tolerated on r/GamerGhazi and other such communities. Nothing short of complete vehemence is allowed.



Tiffani said:


> And you're wrong, Gawker isn't bleeding sponsors. I wish they were, but you're kidding yourself if you think that they're going away.


 
Colgate, Kelloggs, BMW, Nissan, Olympus, Adobe, etc. etc. Furthermore, their actions (like calling Intel "craven idiots") has likely soured potential future sponsorship deals with other companies.

No one's saying they're dead, but it's hurting them where it hurts and it's a powerful repudiation of their behavior. That's what matters most.



Tiffani said:


> Finally, come on, you can't act like having a form letter that people are supposed to use, and instructing them exactly how to change certain things "DO NOT COPY AND PASTE" isn't manipulative. The people doing that aren't doing it because they're legitimately offended, they're doing it in a thinly veiled attempt to hurt Gawker, etc. These people are instructing others on how to fabricate their emails to the sponsors, in order to be most effective. That's manipulative, you have to admit that.


 
Informing people how they can have an impact isn't manipulative. No one is forcing anybody to write up their own and send them out. Also, what makes you think that people aren't legitimately offended? GamerGate raised $16,000 in response to Gawker's bullying comments; you can't exactly fake that. It's even drawn in total outsiders. 



Tiffani said:


> The biggest thing that sucks about this in my eyes is that the real issue has been obfuscated. This started as a discussion about journalist ethics, and now it's just about who's getting sexually harassed, threatened, etc. Both sides have had people behaving poorly. Many hours upon hours could be spent hashing out the fault and blame and who did what to whom first, but that's secondary.
> If the main issue is putting an end to the quid pro quo crap that's taken place, I'm all for it. I find that so reprehensible. Regardless of the other stuff, that's what I would like to see, honesty. Not favorable review scores or coverage in exchange for sex, or money, or early access to a game.


 
While I agree there's certainly been obfuscation, I'd argue that's the fault of the publications pumping out smear piece after smear piece. Had they engaged people openly about their concerns with journalistic ethics and integrity, and had they not tried to censor opposing voices, this probably wouldn't have exploded in the first place.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

ALSO

Potential Habbeding: It looks like The Fine Young Capitalists might've been doxxed by a former Destructoid writer. As if its ties to Anthony "Left in the lurch" Burch weren't bad enough. It truly never ends, this shit.

"Guys, stop archiving what we say. It's very inconvenient, urr, illegal!" (Archived for your convenience, of course)



Spoiler










 
Stay classy.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

You know what the Internet Aristocrat should do? He should doxx himself. Tell everyone his address. No negotiating with terrorists - _"selling"_ personal information in this fashion is just immoral and the least he can do is make their little operation an unprofitable waste of time.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> You know what the Internet Aristocrat should do? He should doxx himself. Tell everyone his address. No negotiating with terrorists - _"selling"_ personal information in this fashion is just immoral and the least he can do is make their little operation an unprofitable waste of time.


So you're saying he should pull an Iron Man 3?


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 29, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> So you're saying he should pull an Iron Man 3?


I'm saying that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 29, 2014)

*Hot off the presses!*

https://archive.today/BPlJF

Now for a word from Ezra Klein, Editor in Chief of Vox (which is under the same umbrella as Polygon) and creator of the JournoList, the colluding discussion board that inspired the GameJournoPros list:


Spoiler











 
Never forget that we are dealing with full on cray-cray here.


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## DCG (Oct 30, 2014)

So, we should just lock up people because someone said they were raped by said person? Without a trail?
That's advanced stupidity (or going fullmcintosh ).....

It's not like people falsely accuse others of rape for personal gain :/

Offtopic.
Talking about herrasment, I've been bullied till the second half of my 4th year of highschool (which was five years long, I was about 17 years old at that time, now almost 23). I even got attacked once by the "main bully", but that didn't work out well for him  (He literally couldn't hurt me and he got suspended).
Be it for my red hair, my long build, being a geek, a nerd, getting higher grades.
One of the few places none of those things matter are games :/ The only thing you're judged on is your behaviour and skill.


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## Tiffani (Oct 30, 2014)

Hey guys, I'm not really sure if I should respond to stuff you all said because I'm really not interested in arguing anymore. Part of me really wants to, though, because I disagree with some stuff that was said, but it's the off-topic stuff, and I'm not sure if it would be best.
Anyhow, on topic, the form letters used to complain to Gawker advertisers is manipulation at its core. You're manipulating people into writing the letters in the best way possible for your cause. Instructions like "Don't mention Gamergate." and "Talk about how the ads make you feel." and "Mention you're offended." and stuff like that is the very definition of manipulation. HOWEVER (excuse the caps, but I wanted to make this clear so no one skips over this), I never said that was a bad thing. The anti-Gamergate side is using dirty and manipulative tactics, just as the pro-Gamergate side is. And please don't come back with saying that they started it because, again, I'm not saying these form letters are a bad thing. It's being done for a good reason.
Finally, war2thegrave, please don't try to make this class warfare stuff. That takes away from the issue and gives the anti-Gamegate side ammunition to throw up smokescreens and obfuscate the issue. This isn't about race, gender, political leaning, religion, or any other way to divide people. This is about journalistic ethics, and nothing else.
Also, please don't use the "SJW" term. It's condescending and inappropriate because I would classify Gamergate as a social justice movement. I don't want to offend you, but I've always found that term unsavory.

Edit- DCG, I'm very sorry to hear about your bullying. Unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with that (as do many others here, I'm sure). I'm glad you made it through.


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## xwatchmanx (Oct 30, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> Also, please don't use the "SJW" term. It's condescending and inappropriate because I would classify Gamergate as a social justice movement. I don't want to offend you, but I've always found that term unsavory.


 
I dislike the term SJW for the same reason I dislike the term MRA. They've become nothing but derogatory terms to dismiss tons of individual viewpoints as all being the same, basically.


----------



## bkifft (Oct 30, 2014)

Yet (at least for me) the term "SJW" seems perfect to describe a certain type of person: very proactive in regards to SJ, but being an asshole about it by dismissing everyone who doesn't agree 100% to their views as "misogynerds", "cishet scum", "modern day house niggers" who deserve to be bullied and should "go eat a bowl of knives and die". Someone who has the firm stance that everyone should just take over their believes right now without critical thinking or asking questions. Someone who has no problems using the same behaviors and slurs they pretend to work to get rid of against their perceived enemies, in other words someone "holier than thou!". Someone who excessively uses or willy-nilly redefines words like misogyny and rape (e.g. "He raped me with his eyes.": Unless he is a member of the crab people or can plop his eyes out from their sockets I believe that to be impossible) [Granted, that might be a language barrier caused misunderstanding]. Someone standing in front of the door behind which an MRA meeting is held, spewing insults through a megaphone and pulling the fire alarm ("They don't deserve free speech!")[side note: extremist MRAs are IMHO just as bad as extremist feminists].  Someone jumping stark naked on the altar of a filled to the last seat big catholic church (Cologne cathedral) during Christmas mass, shouting "I am God!" (because of tolerance I guess?).

Short tl;dr version: For me: SJW = SJ + asshole + extremism.

p.s. now that i think about it, "Social Justice Asshole" would be better suited, just like the less sexist "sand in his/her urethra" is better than "sand in his/her vagina".


----------



## Gahars (Oct 30, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> Anyhow, on topic, the form letters used to complain to Gawker advertisers is manipulation at its core. You're manipulating people into writing the letters in the best way possible for your cause. Instructions like "Don't mention Gamergate." and "Talk about how the ads make you feel." and "Mention you're offended." and stuff like that is the very definition of manipulation. HOWEVER (excuse the caps, but I wanted to make this clear so no one skips over this), I never said that was a bad thing. The anti-Gamergate side is using dirty and manipulative tactics, just as the pro-Gamergate side is. And please don't come back with saying that they started it because, again, I'm not saying these form letters are a bad thing. It's being done for a good reason.


 
Again, though, telling people how they can best get their point across and avoid being dismissed isn't manipulation, and again, people aren't being manipulated into sending these letters. There's nothing compelling people to do it other than personal motivation; there's no stigma or threat for not taking the time to write-in. "Manipulative" has very certain negative connotations, so that's why people object. 



Tiffani said:


> Also, please don't use the "SJW" term. It's condescending and inappropriate because I would classify Gamergate as a social justice movement. I don't want to offend you, but I've always found that term unsavory.


 
SJW is an apt description for a very particular type of person. I admit, it can be a problem for those unfamiliar with it ("Isn't fighting for social justice good?"). The problem with social justice warriors isn't that they "fight" for social justice, it's that they're authoritarians that hijack legitimate causes and fight for self-aggrandizement and panhandle for pity. I always thought "Social Justice Zealot" would be a more accurate term for those sorts, but it seems beyond changing at this point.


----------



## war2thegrave (Oct 30, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> please don't try to make this class warfare stuff. That takes away from the issue and gives the anti-Gamegate side ammunition to throw up smokescreens and obfuscate the issue. This isn't about race, gender, political leaning, religion, or any other way to divide people. This is about journalistic ethics, and nothing else.
> Also, please don't use the "SJW" term. It's condescending and inappropriate because I would classify Gamergate as a social justice movement. I don't want to offend you, but I've always found that term unsavory.


 
While journalistic ethics are most certainly at play here, the class of people involved in game journalism
and the cliques they associate with are a major cause of our problems.
If they had bothered to do the bare minimum of fact checking required of a journalist when Quinn made
her original overblown and inaccurate claims of harassment, instead of rushing to the aid of a damsel
in distress who happens to be a friend of a friend of a friend, than this whole event could have been
avoided nearly a year ago.

SJW is the term that they wish to identify themselves with and I think it is most fitting.
They aren't interested in any real justice, just the kind that involves no work, no change, and no risk.
the kind that sounds impressive to bleat out during social events or gatherings in order to project the image
of being involved in some kind of activism a la mode, but actually accomplishes nothing.

You don't have to tiptoe around me  I've evolved beyond being offended about stuff.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> Also, please don't use the "SJW" term. It's condescending and inappropriate because I would classify Gamergate as a social justice movement. I don't want to offend you, but I've always found that term unsavory.


 


*Hint #1:* Never tell other people what terms to use - that's entirely up to them. Unless the term is officially recognized as a slur, you have no grounds to complain. You don't have the moral authority to decide what's right and wrong, the fact that a term offends you is completely irrelevant and your _"correcting"_ is more condescending than using the term in the first place. Putting yourself on the moral pedestal makes you seem patronizing - that's not what you want in a debate. This hint is free of charge, I'll send you the bills for any future ones, so make the best of it!


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## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

The way I described it is that an SJW is someone who seeks to right the wrongs of everyone else and everything else. Their entire schtick is to be offended for everyone and proceed to change everything because something offends someone. Great change can come from behind a computer screen, but not from the likes of an SJW. Social Justice is a poor way to bring change in the first place and is the entire reason Not Your Shield exists.

You don't want to be seen as a derogatory item, then be reasonable. It's that simply really.

EDIT: And GamerGate is not a social justice movement. We seek accountability in an industry plagued by corruption. It's a consumer revolt pure and simple.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Sterling said:


> The way I described it is that an SJW is someone who seeks to right the wrongs of everyone else and everything else.


I would extend that definition by saying that Social Justice Warriors _"know better"_ when it comes to what should _"offend"_ the _"victim/s"_ and act accordingly, regardless of whether or not the group or person in question feels victimized or offended in any way. The usual explanation in those cases is _"he/she/they is/are brainwashed by the patriarchy so much that they don't even know"_, which is as good a reason to kick up a fuss as any other. If anything, that fuels their resolve even more.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I would extend that definition by saying that Social Justice Warriors _"know better"_ when it comes to what should _"offend"_ the _"victim/s"_ and act accordingly, regardless of whether or not the group or person in question feels victimized or offended in any way. The usual explanation in those cases is _"he/she/they is/are brainwashed by the patriarchy so much that they don't even know"_, which is as good a reason to kick up a fuss as any other. If anything, that fuels their resolve even more.


 
https://i.imgur.com/s6W7Dtp.jpg


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Sterling said:


> https://i.imgur.com/s6W7Dtp.jpg


Precisely the image I had in mind and didn't post since I didn't want to risk facing FAST's wrath regarding reposts. _;O;_


----------



## Veho (Oct 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Precisely the image I had in mind and didn't post since I didn't want to risk facing FAST's wrath regarding reposts. _;O;_


Find some OC, you lazy bum


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Veho said:


> Find some OC, you lazy bum


I could write a poem...?

_"Voeh" _by Lord Foxi4 _"Byron"_ Qnet

Roses are red
Violets are blue
This poem is madgay
And so are you

Thank you, thank you - you're a wonderful audience! _;O;_


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Precisely the image I had in mind and didn't post since I didn't want to risk facing FAST's wrath regarding reposts. _;O;_



Reposts when things are part of a response is quite fine -- see also reaction gifs. Reposts as a general addition to the topic, unless it somehow needed an actual bump (in which case many things would have gone wrong already), are not cool. Some might say I should probably try not to remember most posts in a given topic I follow, however those I shall accuse of being ableist scum as it is not like I can turn my memory off.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Reposts when things are part of a response is quite fine -- see also reaction gifs. Reposts as a general addition to the topic, unless it somehow needed an actual bump (in which case many things would have gone wrong already), are not cool. Some might say I should probably try not to remember most posts in a given topic I follow, however those I shall accuse of being ableist scum as it is not like I can turn my memory off.


 
I was just catching up on the womyn topic when I thought it was what Lord Foxi4 Byron was referring to.


----------



## Veho (Oct 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> _"Voeh" _by Lord Foxi4 _"Byron"_ Qnet
> 
> Roses are red
> Violets are blue
> ...


5/10, too derivative  ;O;


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

Gahars

Any comments of the recent Colbert Report interview with Anita?


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Veho said:


> 5/10, too derivative ;O;


I guess I'll have to be more original then

_"Veoh" _By Lord Foxi4 _"Byron"_ Qnet

Vindictive and mean
Dissects every post
Croatian regime
All kindness is lost
Being picky is his vow
What made him so heinous
I know it now
A ruptured anus

_;O;_

*EDIT:*


Sterling said:


> Gahars
> Any comments of the recent Colbert Report interview with Anita?


 
For context:
_ _


----------



## Veho (Oct 30, 2014)

No need to get upset at constructive criticism, Foksi  ;O;


----------



## Gahars (Oct 30, 2014)

Sterling said:


> Gahars
> 
> Any comments of the recent Colbert Report interview with Anita?


 

I actually posted this in the Strong Womyn thread. Probably should've been here, but whatever.

The long and short of it: It's another puff piece against GG with a few good Colbert liners. The big take away comes when Colbert asked Anita to name three games she objects to... and she couldn't. Reminds me of something...



Bonus Points: Guess who got extra salty about all this?



Spoiler: Enact this labor


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Veho said:


> No need to get upset at constructive criticism, Foksi ;O;


Pff-- I would never stoop so low, Vhoe. Don't misinterpret the fruits of my artistic process as slights at the size of your bumhole. Taking art at face value? I expected more from you, Voeh! Art has man levels! I'm exploring your depths using my empathy, that's all. _;O;_


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

What baffles my asshole is how the comments are disabled but the like/dislike bar on the video isn't. I suppose I should thank comedy central for making it hard to touch the poop, but I'm a little cranky I can't. I loves me some YT arguments and these kinds of videos make it easy.

I'm a little disappointed Colbert gave her such a tame interview when she was one of the people who supported #CancelColbert.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 30, 2014)

Veho said:


> 5/10, too derivative  ;O;



Excerpt from
 The Charge of the Testing Area Brigade 
....
"Forward, the TA Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not for the 'tempers knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Theirs to make snarky reply,
Theirs always to reason why,
Theirs but to eat more pie(.gbatemp.net):
Into the valley of flames
Rode the six hundred.

Corruption to right of them,
Morons to left of them,
Amusement in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Their nonsense library did swell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Pausing only to catch their breath
Into the valley of flames
Rode the six hundred.
....


----------



## Gahars (Oct 30, 2014)

Sterling said:


> What baffles my asshole is how the comments are disabled but the like/dislike bar on the video isn't. I suppose I should thank comedy central for making it hard to touch the poop, but I'm a little cranky I can't. I loves me some YT arguments and these kinds of videos make it easy.
> 
> I'm a little disappointed Colbert gave her such a tame interview when she was one of the people who supported #CancelColbert.


 

Well, too be fair, he already tackled the subject of her "listen and believers" more than ten years ago.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Well, too be fair, he already tackled the subject of her "listen and believers" more than ten years ago.


 
I'm afraid I don't get it.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 30, 2014)

Sterling said:


> I'm afraid I don't get it.


 

A slight crack at the Listen and Believe mob, a bit in bad taste, I'll admit, but also just a highlight of the content that Stephen Colbert's produced (that's his show Wilford Brimley and it's from his show, Strangers With Candy). The show played with a lot of offensive humor and repellant characters; it's the sort of thing that Sarkeesian and her contemporaries would attack if it aired today.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

Gahars said:


> A slight crack at the Listen and Believe mob, a bit in bad taste, I'll admit, but also just a highlight of the content that Stephen Colbert's produced (that's his show Wilford Brimley and it's from his show, Strangers With Candy). The show played with a lot of offensive humor and repellant characters; it's the sort of thing that Sarkeesian and her contemporaries would attack if it aired today.


 
It makes a little more sense, but does not ease my disappointment much.


----------



## Foxi4 (Oct 30, 2014)

Honestly, I heard more shots fired then just the problem of three titles - that's hardly what resonated me. He was subtle about his criticism, but from where I'm sitting, he criticized both sides. Three things I've noticed:

Anita claims that _"women are gamers too now and gaming has to be a shared space"_, he asks her _"if you want to share it, why deprive men of what men like instead of making games that women like, games specifically aimed at women"_ - no reply
Anita claims that perhaps damsels in distress should save themselves, he replies that _"there are games..."_ before the crowd takes over and he can't finish his thought. Clearly he meant to say that _"there are games with strong female protagonists out there if you want those"_, but he wasn't given the chance by his own audience
Colbert asks why is it that only women get these threats, Anita replies that _"people fear them because they're strong"_. Interesting - I guess the whole _"quitting the industry"_ shtick is all about how strong they are, Colbert probably shares my view there.
I don't think he's supporting Anita in any shape or form here - he's merely standing against the harassment of women, which is something we all find deplorable. His final pun was more so about people trying to save entertainment journalism when entertainment journalism is crooked almost by definition rather than claiming that GamerGate people are using this as an excuse to harass women online.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

True, but I'm rather used to the more overt side of Colbert. Subtle criticisms are the hardest to understand and honestly if you don't get them until they're explained to you, it's barely criticism at all. That's coming from me who thrives on criticism and would prefer for people to yell it out at the tops of their lungs since I'm an idiot who doesn't understand subtlety.


----------



## Veho (Oct 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Pff-- I would never stoop so low, Vhoe. Don't misinterpret the fruits of my artistic process as slights at the size of your bumhole. Taking art at face value? I expected more from you, Voeh! Art has man levels! I'm exploring your depths using my empathy, that's all. _;O;_


The proverbial low hanging fruit? 

Foksi, why do you refuse my help? Why do you spurn my guidance? I just want to help you grow. You need to grow, Foksi, or you'll stay tiny forever  ;O;


----------



## Gahars (Oct 30, 2014)

Sterling said:


> It makes a little more sense, but does not ease my disappointment much.


 

I meant it as a pretty over-the-top sort of thing, but I'm sorry if it landed wrong.



Foxi4 said:


> Honestly, I heard more shots fired then just the problem of three titles - that's hardly what resonated me. He was subtle about his criticism, but from where I'm sitting, he criticized both sides. Three things I've noticed:
> 
> Anita claims that _"women are gamers too now and gaming has to be a shared space"_, he asks her _"if you want to share it, why deprive men of what men like instead of making games that women like, games specifically aimed at women"_ - no reply
> Anita claims that perhaps damsels in distress should save themselves, he replies that _"there are games..."_ before the crowd takes over and he can't finish his thought. Clearly he meant to say that _"there are games with strong female protagonists out there if you want those"_, but he wasn't given the chance by his own audience
> ...


 
And yet he opens with a very, very slanted and inaccurate rundown of how GamerGate began, and a few of those questions came off more as him playing the foible and less as actual barbed inquiries.

To be fair, they only cite MSNBC and Newsweek as sources, so it's kind of a given.


----------



## Sterling (Oct 30, 2014)

Gahars said:


> I meant it as a pretty over-the-top sort of thing, but I'm sorry if it landed wrong.


 
I'm just _really_ dense.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 30, 2014)

You might not recognize the name David Pakman, but he's kind of become embroiled in this. He conducted an interview with Brianna Wu on Monday or so, and she attacked him for asking actual questions, calling it a hit piece. Milo went on the show the next day as a followup and to explain how Wu had sabotaged a planned Radio Nero segment. He's just published a new interview with John "Big Guy" Bain, aka TotalBiscuit.



Actual interviewing? Holding the interviewees accountable? Could it be?

Speaking of TotalBiscuit, he conducted a long interview with Stephen Totilo, Kotaku's Editor in Chief. Totilo does a whole lot of dancing around the issues and deflection, and I would've liked it if TotalBiscuit grilled him harder, but it's something, at least.

Also, here's an interesting case... Put on your boots, kids, 'cause we're going deep in the muck.



Spoiler







> SUMMARY :
> -Brazilian journo Mateus makes several accounts, tags #gamergate and makes disgusting threats to Anita
> -GamerGate stands up for Anita, GG'ers get graphic threats as well
> -In comes Mateus, a Brazilian game journo. His site uses same links as the spam accounts
> ...


 
http://imgur.com/e0Vwmnp 


http://imgur.com/e0Vwmnp[/spoiler]



Sterling said:


> I'm just _really_ dense.


 

If you were a lawyer, would you be Harvey Dense?


----------



## war2thegrave (Oct 30, 2014)

I think you guys are reading too much into this colbert thing.
It's a PR platform similar to other talk shows and "news" interviews.
Musician needs to plug an album?
Writer needs to plug a book?
Politician up for re-election?
Celebrity having legal issues?
Call up the PR firm you pay good money to and the next day you could be making the rounds on
whatever television, radio, print, or online media that you think will net you the best advantage.


----------



## Tiffani (Oct 31, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> *Hint #1:* Never tell other people what terms to use - that's entirely up to them. Unless the term is officially recognized as a slur, you have no grounds to complain. You don't have the moral authority to decide what's right and wrong, the fact that a term offends you is completely irrelevant and your _"correcting"_ is more condescending than using the term in the first place. Putting yourself on the moral pedestal makes you seem patronizing - that's not what you want in a debate. This hint is free of charge, I'll send you the bills for any future ones, so make the best of it!





First off, I never said it offended me. Secondly, why do you not understand what I'm saying here? I'm the one offering the free hint. When you say stuff like "SJW" or " MRA" you detract from whatever it is you're saying. xwatchmanx summed it up perfectly "They've become nothing but derogatory terms to dismiss tons of individual viewpoints as all being the same, basically."
Gahars, you objected to me using the term "manipulate" because of negative connotations. I understand that, so I won't use manipulate when discussing this. For the record, to manipulate someone is to guide them, which is what's happening with the form letters campaign. It's also what's happening with the coverage of the Gamergate crowd. I used the word even though it does have negative connotations because I was using it to describe both sides. But then you lost me because it seemed like you're ok with the use of the term "SJW" here. I understand your point about fanatical people ruining good points and arguments that others make,that's why I asked for people to not use the "SJW" phrase.
Foxi4, let me break it down for you as best I can. When you use "SJW" or the aforementioned "MRA", you immediately set a tone for the conversation, and it's one that detracts from your argument. It's like having a discussion about religion and in the first sentence you use the phrase "bible-thumper". No matter how good your argument, no matter how valid it is, it becomes secondary. Because the second you use that phrase, that becomes the main arguing point. When you attack someone in a debate, that becomes the focal point. And please refrain from giving me debate advice when you do such a shit job of debating yourself. 
I never put myself on a moral pedestal, your argument has more holes than FOX News. Tell me in what way I put myself on a moral pedestal? Was it when I asked someone to not use a certain phrase because it has negative connotations, and detracts from the main point? Because it seems to me that someone else in this thread asked me the same thing when it came to the word "manipulate", which isn't nearly the loaded phrase that "SJW" is. Did I respond to Gahars by telling him to not tell me what terms to use? Did I accuse him of being patronizing and putting himself on a moral pedestal? Did I get my panties in a bunch and tell him he was being condescending? I'll answer that for you, no.
Foxi4, if someone calls you a "MRA", how do you respond? You know that phrase has negative connotations, and is basically an insult. I don't know you, but I would imagine that you would be offended and on the defensive about it. You would likely respond negatively to the person who called you that, and dismiss any of their points as crap. That's how the other side sees you when you use the phrase "SJW". I'm speaking in the general "you" here, not the specific.


----------



## Gahars (Oct 31, 2014)

Spoiler: Guess Wu










 
Why are all these people telling me to check my privilege trust fund babies? Are they just projecting that hard? There's nothing wrong with coming from wealth or anything, but just have a little self-awareness.

Also, here's an interesting write-up on the subject of censorship from Penny Arcade's Tycho... back in 2013.



> It’s very weird to pull up a story about a game with frankly visionary art and hear why it shouldn’t exist, or to hear what I supposedly fantasize about, or what kind of power I supposedly revere, and any attempt to defend oneself from these psychotic projections or to assert that creators may create is evidence of a dark seed sprouting in the heart. It’s an incredible state of affairs. They’re not censors, though - oh, no no. You’ll understand it eventually; what you need to do is censor yourself.


 
Damn straight. Now if only they hadn't caved on "dickwolves."



Tiffani said:


> Gahars, you objected to me using the term "manipulate" because of negative connotations. I understand that, so I won't use manipulate when discussing this. For the record, to manipulate someone is to guide them, which is what's happening with the form letters campaign.


 


			
				From Google said:
			
		

> *ma·nip·u·late*
> 
> 2) control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.


 
It's guiding in the most general sense, but manipulation connotes a very specific type. That's just where my objection lies.



Tiffani said:


> But then you lost me because it seemed like you're ok with the use of the term "SJW" here. I understand your point about fanatical people ruining good points and arguments that others make,that's why I asked for people to not use the "SJW" phrase.


 

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with using it, it just depends on how you use it. I think there's a fair distinction between correctly labeling someone an SJW and trying to shut out dissention by dismissing them as SJWs. Then again, I've seen these sorts of people tear apart the comics and atheist community, so I'm probably just jaded at this point.


----------



## DCG (Oct 31, 2014)

I happen to be reading up a bit whilst watching Law and Order SVU (Love that series)
If you've got the time, look up episode 13 from season 11. It's somewhat fitting for the events happening now.

OT.
The reason TB didn't hammer him down was because he was going full in the brakes and by pushing him further he wouldn't have gotten anywhere (which I agree with him).
I can't seem to find the image link to the 8chan post he made about it, explaining what his stance is in the whole thing.

Btw.
Da fuck is wrong with certain people?
http://i.imgur.com/ph3qZjf.png


----------



## bkifft (Nov 1, 2014)

DCG said:


> Btw.
> Da fuck is wrong with certain people?
> http://i.imgur.com/ph3qZjf.png


 
And nope, those aren't doctored. But most likely those were jokes we just don't get.

Yet another example that a sound financial background allows one to think very creative thoughts.

Btw: Would I be crossing the line in implying that his literal left eye blindness also seems to be figuratively?

edit: Briana Wu is starting a defense fund to help women harassed by GG  to prosecute their harassers for libel and slander: https://archive.today/MEsdf

Besides my believe that this is just another case of (positive) sexism: Could someone versed in American law/investigation capabilities tell me how it's supposed to be possible to track down and serve someone who harassed, and not someone who threatened to rape or murder?


----------



## Veho (Nov 1, 2014)

DCG said:


> Btw.
> Da fuck is wrong with certain people?
> http://i.imgur.com/ph3qZjf.png


He said "I don't want to offend anyone" so that's okay.


----------



## Sterling (Nov 1, 2014)

DCG said:


> Btw.
> Da fuck is wrong with certain people?
> http://i.imgur.com/ph3qZjf.png


Fuck that guy.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 2, 2014)

A little follow up on David "Pacman Fever" Pakman. For the heresy of remaining neutral and giving hard questions to both sides of the conflict, he's under fire for, uh, "leading a hate mob." Because, you know, of course.









Spoiler










 
TL;DR:


*And hey, here's a flash from the past:* Anthony "Cites MayMays for Research" Burch and Jim Sterling were abusing Digg to promote Destructoid articles back when they worked for the site. Please, Jim, preach to me more about your stance on ethics.



Veho said:


> He said "I don't want to offend anyone" so that's okay.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Nov 2, 2014)

Gahars said:


> *And hey, here's a flash from the past:*Anthony "Cites MayMays for Research" Burch and Jim Sterling were abusing Digg to promote Destructoid articles back when they worked for the site. Please, Jim, preach to me more about your stance on ethics.


 
I'm confused here... What exactly are they doing, and why is it a problem?


----------



## Gahars (Nov 2, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> I'm confused here... What exactly are they doing, and why is it a problem?


 

This took place on Digg, which was kind of a precursor to Reddit. They were abusing the site, spamming Destructoid content to boost their traffic and voting it up to drown out other content. This was, of course, highly unethical.


----------



## DCG (Nov 3, 2014)

Over at KiA and full chan they might have found some code in gawker or kotaku's website that hides ads for some people right after they get loaded.
So they are trying to make ad revenue whilst keeping their advertisers hidden from some people?

At some times it's almost like these guys are cartoon figures.....
They blurt out really stupid things and some even act as if they are completely insane o.O

The discussions are shifting more and more towards a gamers Vs. extreme feminists :/
I know that's also due to the fact that they keep injecting themselves into the discussion, but I wonder how we should approach the entire thing. I have a feeling the "offending" media won't change a bit, unless they get damaged in a sustained way (no more review copy's, banned from adsense and amazon etc.) I read the normal advertisers will probably return once gamergate is ending (when we've won, lost, or they think it is ending) and I'd say that's probably true :/


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 3, 2014)

If so that is some odd stuff as I thought plain impression based advertising was basically in a death spiral, not to mention in what impression based stuff there still is then your click through rate was all important (the click through part being the dominant form).


----------



## Gahars (Nov 3, 2014)

This weekend, Double Fine (the company that couldn't afford to finish games paid for by customers... twice) held a giant party for all their San Francisco friends. I guess that was within the budget. Anyway, many indie developers and games journalists were there. Why, our favorite developer even made an appearance to show off his new career path.



Spoiler: Compare your life to mine and then kill yourself.













Of course, the good people at 8chan were happy to provide Phil Flounders with a few suggestions for his image.



Spoiler










*Now here's something a little enraging:* Someone made a Youtube video to point out who's been harassing Anita Sarkeesian and to try to encourage others to report that person to Twitter and Anita herself. The video was taken down for "harassment."

Here's the info if you have any interest: http://pastebin.com/WtEM0D0v

*Next...* It looks like IGN will be coming out with a Code of Ethics in a very short while. That's right: IGN has the moral high ground here. Ponder this and weep for the games journalism scene.

*Finally...* Think of this the next time someone tries to tell you that we're the ones holding the medium back as an art form. Remember: Games are art, unless I don't like them, in which case they shouldn't have the right to exist at all.



DCG said:


> I have a feeling the "offending" media won't change a bit, unless they get damaged in a sustained way (no more review copy's, banned from adsense and amazon etc.) I read the normal advertisers will probably return once gamergate is ending (when we've won, lost, or they think it is ending) and I'd say that's probably true :/


 

On the bright side, though, the longer this goes on, the more they expose themselves for the cultish hypocrites they are, which will drive more and more people away. These publications run very tight profit margins in terms of ad revenue, so stuff like that really matters.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Nov 3, 2014)

Disappointed he isn't calling himself DJ Philly Phil.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 3, 2014)

Someone linked the following up earlier 
http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s4e7-gamergate-7071206
http://j39.video2.blip.tv/15930013668955/Foldablehuman-S4E7GamerGate975.m4v?ir=71136&sr=1961

Off base does not quite begin to describe it, and some somewhat flawed assumptions and logic before all is said and done, but it brings up some nominally interesting things along the way (6 minutes 30 odd seconds or so of build). If a regular news channel had managed something like that then I would have been impressed, of course regular news does seem to shy away from words of more than two syllables.

Mind you if some of the points were as described I would probably have to consider some "ends and means" type things, or possibly whether the baby steps in the right direction were worth the faceplants in doing so.


----------



## Veho (Nov 3, 2014)




----------



## Gahars (Nov 5, 2014)

Arthur Chu went on David Pakman's show for an interview. It got... heated.



For someone complaining about attention brought to Zoe Quinn, he REALLY likes talking about her... even when the questions aren't related. At all.

For those curious, here are some of his #TweetLikeNotYourShield posts.


Spoiler



If you missed it, here is a list of lovely tweets by Arthur Chu compiled by samaritanmachine[1]

http://archive.today/qCYf4
http://archive.today/NU0cH
http://archive.today/Z2A3l
http://archive.today/CXSOu
http://archive.today/pFVsH
http://archive.today/endpP
http://archive.today/4h6J5
http://archive.today/CglXj
http://archive.today/ghRpa
http://archive.today/u3mPB
http://archive.today/4W35a
http://archive.today/16YkC
http://archive.today/o13aZ
http://archive.today/ER8sj
http://archive.today/gwFbO
http://archive.today/2p8Qh
http://archive.today/SJsFG



 
*HERE COMES DA BIG ONE:*

The GamerGate auto-block list. How many people are on it? *15,000.* Including David Pakman and Liana K, two people not even associated with the movement. Check it out and see who else you can find (I'm #5013!).

If you want a breakdown and/or want to someone who sounds suspiciously like Luigi, watch this.

Boogie had some choice words on the subject.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 5, 2014)

Sorry for the double post, but some happenings warrant it. And this, if verified, is... well, it'd be something spectacular.



Spoiler


----------



## Veho (Nov 5, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Boogie had some choice words on the subject.


Ah yes, the good old "if you're not vocally and vehemently with us, you're against us, and also a misogynist pig" argument. HOW DARE YOU BE IMPARTIAL, YOU SWINE!


----------



## DCG (Nov 5, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Sorry for the double post, but some happenings warrant it. And this, if verified, is... well, it'd be something spectacular.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Shit's going to a whole new level in a couple of hours/days I suppose?
Still, I wonder if it's Annita, ZQ or Wu.
We know at least one troll was after Anitta, so my money is at least on Wu (who doesn't keep quiet at all) and my other guess would be ZQ (who I also suspect using GG for financial gain).


----------



## Gahars (Nov 5, 2014)

Some more participants in the GameJournoPros list have been found:


Spoiler










 
And yes, that includes Leigh "I'm not even in that group" Alexander. Games Journalism, liar, the distinction is so blurred these days.

*200% MAD INCOMING:*

Nick Denton, one of the bigwigs over at Gawker, apparently posted this to his Facebook. In his post, he talks like a fucking supervillain while claiming to have hired people to shill and break up GamerGate from within. This comes from KingOfPol, who says that the source has to remain anonymous, but Hotwheels and others have claimed its confirmed and KoP sent the info to Milo for verification, so... yeah.

Though the posting of this seems to give it some authenticity.



DCG said:


> Shit's going to a whole new level in a couple of hours/days I suppose?
> Still, I wonder if it's Annita, ZQ or Wu.
> We know at least one troll was after Anitta, so my money is at least on Wu (who doesn't keep quiet at all) and my other guess would be ZQ (who I also suspect using GG for financial gain).


 

I'd err on the side of patience; shit like this can take a while to ferment. However, the fact that they're talking about it publicly hopefully means that they've got enough info already and/or they're looking to lure their targets into getting paranoid and making even more mistakes.



Veho said:


> Ah yes, the good old "if you're not vocally and vehemently with us, you're against us, and also a misogynist pig" argument. HOW DARE YOU BE IMPARTIAL, YOU SWINE!


 

This is all over Arthur Chu's interview. They seem to really be sticking their heads in the sand, as if refusing to engage with others who disagree will somehow make them go away. Just call anyone not on your side "harassers" and you're set.

GamerGate accepts and even encourages neutrals. Anti-GamerGate treats them like pariahs.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 5, 2014)

Gahars said:


> *200% MAD INCOMING:*
> 
> Nick Denton, one of the bigwigs over at Gawker, apparently posted this to his Facebook. In his post, he talks like a fucking supervillain while claiming to have hired people to shill and break up GamerGate from within. This comes from KingOfPol, who says that the source has to remain anonymous, but Hotwheels and others have claimed its confirmed and KoP sent the info to Milo for verification, so... yeah.
> 
> Though the posting of this seems to give it some authenticity.



I am trying to decide if someone read http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm , the art of war or just saw a bad spy film and extrapolated.

Mind you a full blown psy ops and counter ops (and counter counter) deal would serve to liven things up a bit.


----------



## Sterling (Nov 5, 2014)

LOLOL this is fucking hilarious. It's like watching a fish avoid the cat's paw. Eventually the cat is going to fall in and be just another wet pussy.


----------



## DCG (Nov 6, 2014)

I'm guessing Denton left his FB logged in somewhere?
Or he's trying to have us turn against each other thinking the other people might be "spies" :/

If it's the later he's just plain stupid XD


----------



## Gahars (Nov 7, 2014)

TW: E-celeb drama/shenanigans

So King of Pol, the guy behind that Nick Denton leak? All of what he said was bullshit. (The post was written by Hotwheels himself, explaining the entire situation)

After people called him out on his shit, KingOfPol apparently hosted a LiveStream where he lost all his spaghetti and claimed that Reddit "shills" created a Skype group to control GamerGate or something along those lines. This is pretty much as good of a TL;DR there is.

This is why you don't want leaders here, ladies and gentlemn.

On the brighter side, Gawker has lost yet another sponsor. 

#GamerGate has surpassed 3 million tweets and is still going strong.

And how could I neglect to mention Big Man Tyrone's latest video?


----------



## DCG (Nov 7, 2014)

I read that as well this morning (9 AM here) :/
This is indeed the main reason we don't want/need/have any leaders, if they come down the entire pyramid will fall, but since we don't have any real leaders this shouldn't be anything too serious.

And apparently IA also had a fuckup yesterday or so?
I read something on KiA that he was having sex with his GF during a stream? quickly looked trough some twitter posts, but I couldn't find any mentions in those, so I don't know if it's real or not.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 7, 2014)

Arthur Gies (coincidentally the guy behind that Bayonetta 2 review) engages in empty posturing on Twitter... until Brad Wardell calls him out.

"You gotta pretty developer going here. It'd be a shame if somethin' were to... happen to it."

In case you missed it, Brad Wardell is the chief executive for Stardock. His career was almost ruined after an employee falsely accused him of sexual harassment; sites like Kotaku and The PA Report (under Ben Kuchera) ran with the details, smearing his name. Milo wrote an article on the subject two months ago.

If you're wonder why we should even worry about these so-called "journalist" and what they can really do... well, here's yet another example.

Some emails from DiGRA members have leaked, and man, the pseudo-academics are in full force.



Spoiler: How can I approach the issue without letting my students think there's two sides?











 
DiGRA, if you've forgotten, is basically the academic counterpart of the SJW strain of games journalists we're dealing with. Their entire goal is to circumvent the traditional standards of peer review, with members approving each other's work without actual scrutiny to create the illusion of review.



DCG said:


> And apparently IA also had a fuckup yesterday or so?
> I read something on KiA that he was having sex with his GF during a stream? quickly looked trough some twitter posts, but I couldn't find any mentions in those, so I don't know if it's real or not.


 

Yup. He started dating Jay3d (or however you spell her name), he got drunk on a stream, and... well, yeah.

It's worth remembering that a lot of people in GamerGate, from the many writing emails to the megaphones and mouthpieces, are, at their core, spaghetti-spillers. I'd certainly say I fit the bill. It doesn't mean these people aren't smart, or helpful, or worth listening to, but it's only inevitable that every now and then some people are going to lose their grip on their spaghetti and it's just going to go flying everywhere.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 7, 2014)

So I made it through that PDF
If I was funnier I would try to undo some of the redactions; a lot of people have their names redacted but leave positions, articles they wrote and more left open. Beyond that the pen did not seem to be that accurate and I have always wanted to try my hand at word lengths, tails/loop analysis and ascender analysis.

Back on topic that was an odd read, though the taking of a default position on the matter and then maybe considering branching does rather seem to be at odds with what I was always brought to understand academia was about. I had always described the state of games academia as something along the lines of ramshackle ivory tower, that would seem to then risk something of a odd feedback loop should it be combined with the lesser, and sadly more numerous, types of game journalism.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 8, 2014)

Ryulonger, the top contributor of Wikipedia's totally "fair and balanced" article on GamerGate, is continuing to ensure that coverage remains comprehensive and accur-






Ah, good. Can't let facts and dissension disturb the circlejerk, can we?

Never forget that there are still smart, rational people in this industry. Case in point:


TotalBiscuit recently held an interview with Rhianna Pratchett, a writer for games, television, etc. (and, fun fact, daughter of Terry Pratchett), about diversity and representation in games. I don't agree with her on every point, and I think she gets some things wrong, but she approaches the subject in a reasonable, thoughtful manner, and TotalBiscuit definitely asks some good questions. It's well worth a listen if you have the time.


*In Happenings:* Yet another sponsor, Dyson, has pulled out from Gawker.

My fire rises, how about yours?
Gaming's reckoning isn't a bore.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 10, 2014)

*Sorry for the double post, but here's your daily dose of drama:*

It all began when Mattie Brice, a judge for IGF (which you might remember has been implicated in some shady dealings with indies in the past, particularly with Phil Fish and Fez), tweeted this. People were naturally taken aback and critical.

Then the sphincter seepage began. All of these tweets were made in a twenty minute span.



The IG finally got involved and simply asked her to refrain from making such comments. She decided to step down completely.

The calls of "GG scares away another woman!" are already coming out in full force. Truly we were only dealing with master trole 2014 right here.

*Also:* I don't know if this is confirmed yet, so treat it with some skepticism, but apparently there's a new push for internet censorship laws in the guise of "protecting women online." Because, you know, muh harassment and all that.

Good thing we have General Patton in the war effort.


----------



## DCG (Nov 11, 2014)

This just in:
WAM! banned Milo from twitter :s


----------



## Foxi4 (Nov 11, 2014)

He's been unbanned:
https://twitter.com/Nero/status/532133683210510336


----------



## Gahars (Nov 11, 2014)

*About that Mattie Brice thing*, people jumped on the IGF for... asking her not to make sexist statements. This got to the point that IGF was forced to apologize to Mattie Brice... for her choosing to resign her position.

Several other judges threatened to step down if concessions weren't made to Ms. Brice. Several of whom, like Christina Love and Brandon Keogh, support her on Patreon. The hip indie gaming scene is nothing if not incestuous, huh?

*On the topic of Milo*, it looks like some troll sent him an animal carcass in the mail. I guess roses are too cliche. On the bright side, at least he has his account back; agree with him or not, outright censorship is just the worst way to respond.


"Just leave me alone! What did I ever do to you?"


Spoiler


----------



## DCG (Nov 17, 2014)

Apparently radical supporting gamergate now gets you physically attacked by woman :s
https://twitter.com/RevueMage
Tweets are from around this time https://twitter.com/RevueMage/status/533985375866191872


----------



## Gahars (Nov 17, 2014)

DCG said:


> Apparently radical supporting gamergate now gets you physically attacked by woman :s
> https://twitter.com/RevueMage
> Tweets are from around this time https://twitter.com/RevueMage/status/533985375866191872


 

Trust, but verify here. If it is legitimate, though... man, wouldn't it be bitterly ironic that the only threats that came to actual violence happened to someone in _support_ of GamerGate? Wonder how many outlets will report on that.

Speaking of that... An ABC reporter admits they chose harassment angle over corruption (that's the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, if you're wondering)

This is another really strong piece by William Usher. If you don't recognize the name, he's the guy who leaked the GameJournoPros list to Milo, and he's been dropping great stuff left and right. Definitely a good guy to follow.

And now, aboot those Canucks... the CBC published a report on GamerGate, which was a typical smear piece calling its supporters harassers of women. Worse, though, it filed people like Milo and David Pakman under that same label.



First he's a white supremacist, then a dead gay teen, and now an agent of misogyny? Damn, Pakman fever is rough.

Finally, you might want to look into BasedGamer. The stranglehold of Metacritic on the industry is definitely felt by developers, and it's partially what makes review scores so contentious (Obsidian devs lost out on their bonuses for Fallout: New Vegas because it got an 84 on Metacritic, just one point shy of the needed threshold). What exacerbates this, as people like TotalBiscuit have pointed out, is that gaming lacks any sort of RottenTomatoes equivalent or other competitors. BasedGamer appears to be an attempt to fill in that gap.

There's no telling if it'll succeed or fail yet, but at least we're seeing an attempt. Hopefully it amounts to something good.

(Also, thanks DCG. I feel so awkward double posting in my own thread. If there's ever a lull in posting here, and you don't want to dip your toes in 8chan, r/KotakuInAction is a great source of news, updates, sensible chuckles, and the occasional freak outs)


----------



## Veho (Nov 17, 2014)

Spoiler












Reference.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 17, 2014)

Hey, Veho, you know, speaking of Leigh Alexander...

It turns out that she used Gamasutra to promote a friend and an organization that she was a member of, and all without any disclosure whatsoever. (Archive just in case, you never know with Reddit)

Gee, Miss Alexander, it looks like you have quite a big dog in this fight against ethics reform. Like, we're talking Saint Bernard-sized. Are you sure you're just "the megaphone" here?

Also from Reddit: A good recap of the previous week's happenings, habbedings, and hip-hoppenings. (No Archive here because... I'm lazy)

And finally...


----------



## DCG (Nov 18, 2014)

I've been reading on KiA a lot lately, it's more open than twitter etc.
Good and new stuff come floating up by its own, when a sufficient ammount of people respond or like it.

There seems to be a nice script someone developed, it takes sites from the blacklist and automatically archives their pages when you try to vistit them and redirect to the archives  and it seems to look if a page has been archived before to prevent duplicates XD

Edit.
And lets not forget KYM and the steam group


----------



## Gahars (Nov 18, 2014)

A Blizzard engineer calling for an actual, honest-to-God blacklist. Good thing that's not illegal as meth-encrusted shit, right?

It seems that someone told him, because here he is backpadeling fast enough to win the Tour De France.

On a more positive note, TotalBiscuit wrote a little TweetLonger regarding "social justice" and "privilege" and how American-centric it all is. It's not anything revolutionary for most posters here, I'm sure, but I'm glad that more and more people are recognizing this nonsense for what it is. It makes you think that maybe, just maybe, we might some day get over all these petty identity politics and actually make some actual progress. Providing adequate social services for the poor, enriching our schools and providing better educational opportunities, all that utopic stuff.

I know, I know, I'm a dreamer, but let me have this, damn it!

And finally, a file from the "Totally Unconfirmed and Unverified but Habbedings will be Habbedings" folder...


Spoiler: ...Bane?


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 18, 2014)

Gahars said:


> A Blizzard engineer calling for an actual, honest-to-God blacklist. Good thing that's not illegal as meth-encrusted shit, right?
> 
> It seems that someone told him, because here he is backpadeling fast enough to win the Tour De France.



So as well as potentially having to reveal facebook passwords I may also have to share twitter info.

This could get interesting for some, hopefully me being too antisocial to have such accounts does not hinder me.


----------



## Gahars (Nov 19, 2014)

MOUNTAIN DEW CODE RED ALERT: Jack Thompson lambasts Anita Sarkeesian



This must be what going mad feels like.


----------



## Foxi4 (Nov 19, 2014)

I thought I'd never see the day... Yes, Thompson is being reasonable, or at least more reasonable than our dear Anita. I am shocked.


----------



## DCG (Nov 19, 2014)

Even though the SJW's are mainly a USA problem, if they get what they want, the EU countries will follow :/ (they always do with the weird shit)
And The Netherlands are rather quick with these things :s
So that's what at stake for me.


----------



## DCG (Nov 21, 2014)

Since this is EOF, I'm not ashamed to double post.

KiA is watching digimon XD
And ghazi was complaining about it XD


----------



## Gahars (Nov 21, 2014)

Everyone, gather 'round: Big Man Tyrone needs our help.



You can watch the sort-of pilot here.

https://twitter.com/archon/status/535649411356180480
https://twitter.com/archon/status/535617480287600641

Jim Sterling left The Escapist in a tizzy over its allowance of GamerGate discussion. Can we replace Jim "the Alien Ant Farm cover of Smooth Criminal is better" Sterling with Tyrone, the King of GamerGate? Let's hope so.



DCG said:


> Since this is EOF, I'm not ashamed to double post.
> 
> KiA is watching digimon XD
> And ghazi was complaining about it XD


 

Milo went too far this time. He's a loose cannon!


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 21, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Jim Sterling left The Escapist in a tizzy over its allowance of GamerGate discussion.



Has there been any direct confirmation of that?


----------



## Foxi4 (Nov 21, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Has there been any direct confirmation of that?


 
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138617-Goodbye-to-Jim-Sterling


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## FAST6191 (Nov 22, 2014)

I knew he had left, I was more looking that what Gahars said was the reasoning behind it. Everything I saw just seemed to be the "he wants to go it alone" thing.


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## Gahars (Nov 22, 2014)

In "Foreboding, Ominous Tweets" today... "WikiLeaks for Tech Devs. It's coming." Plus an elaboration (courtesy of Reddit).





FAST6191 said:


> Has there been any direct confirmation of that?


 

He's basically said as much at this point. Credit where credit is due, though, it certainly seems to be working out of him; he's getting paid $9k/month now, and his old pay at the Escapist was apparently somewhere in the $6-7k/month range.

One can only hope MovieBob tries to follow suit. I'd love to see how that'd turn out.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 22, 2014)

Maybe it is just that I am often completely oblivious to subtext but I am not quite inclined to read that much into it. General admin policy at the escapist seems to be somewhere between "wing it", "it is only games" and "I am surprised this is not illegal; it is certainly not logical", however upper damagement seems to have their actions shielded by having some talent in their pond.

"on the wikileaks but for tech" is that not what regular wikileaks, sites like notalwaysright and the comment sections of tech websites in general are for?


----------



## Gahars (Nov 26, 2014)

Bro Team Pill has interviewed two developers (anonymously) about what it's actually like within the industry. They're definitely worth the watch.


----------



## Sterling (Dec 2, 2014)

It looks like Internet Aristocrat has left the game.



It kinda sucks because I loved listening to him in the background.


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## Gahars (Dec 2, 2014)

Sterling said:


> It looks like Internet Aristocrat has left the game.
> 
> It kinda sucks because I loved listening to him in the background.


 

"You either die a hero or live long enough to spill your spaghetti."

There is an archive of all his videos, even those that he made under earlier accounts: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOUFfqAMfqvDm5tYgDTvhmg/videos

Also, in case you missed it, Operation UV was a success, as the FTC has publicly announced it'll be reworking its regulations regarding affiliate links in articles. Here's a brief description of the problem from the OP...


> In short, affiliate links allow a website to monetize links from their site to online retailors like Amazon.com. If a reader of a website clicks on a link and purchases a product, the referring website receives a portion of the sale.
> 
> While legal, problems come about when these links are hidden in product reviews, news articles and things of that nature. If these links are undisclosed, the consumer is unaware that the referring website has a direct financial incentive for their readers to purchase the product being reviewed or discussed. This is why full and obvious disclosure of this financial relationship is necessary. And it is this specific problem that #OperationUV has been attempting to tackle through emails and correspondence with the FTC.


 
Operation UV involved people sending complaints and messages to the FTC regarding undisclosed affiliate links, citing specific examples (many from Kotaku and Gawker as a whole). It's had an impact, alright.

But remember: Nothing good has come of GamerGate.


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## DCG (Dec 3, 2014)

A couple of days ago kotaku seemed to be adding the disclosure to their articles 
So they do fear the FTC XD

About IA.
I still wonder how it's possible for people to get corrupted by power :/
I'm a moderator on a gaming server and I can't say I love every player on it, even get annoyed by some to be 100% honest.
But why would I ban/kick them if they aren't breaking any rules? To give myself a feeling of power/superiority?
If a match is so heavily sided that I really don't like it any more I just quit for that match, like any other player would probably do :/

I act towards others like I would like them to act towards myself.


In other news.
Seems the anti's have forced a female game dev to resign?
Saw a couple of posts about it on KiA.


----------



## Gahars (Dec 6, 2014)

TotalBiscuit just won the "Trending Gamer" award at Geoff Keighley's (praise His holy name brand product) The Game Awards. Do note that this was determined by a popular vote of people online, not just by a panel of judges.

The tears are still salty.



Spoiler














 





Who knew voting was so triggering?


----------



## xwatchmanx (Dec 6, 2014)

I almost threw up when I read the tweet from Luke Penny.


----------



## Tiffani (Dec 7, 2014)

I think Jeff Gerstmann should have won Trending Gamer, he's done more for the games industry. But I guess it's the nature of the beast with Internet polls.


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## Gahars (Dec 8, 2014)

David Draiman, lead singer of Disturbed, has come out in full support of GamerGate.










Also, it looks like /pol/ is getting purged at the moment. Hold on to your shekels, things might get interesting.

Also: An interesting essay on the economics of social justice and ivory nosers from Kazerad. I can't say that I've tried any of his comics, but his essays always make for good reads.



Tiffani said:


> I think Jeff Gerstmann should have won Trending Gamer, he's done more for the games industry. But I guess it's the nature of the beast with Internet polls.


 
I think with "Trending Gamer" they meant more along the lines of "hip now" rather than overall lifetime achievement. TotalBiscuit's popular enough that his Steam Curator page dominates the top spot by miles, so he's got numbers on his side. I don't think it's undeserved, though; he's maintained a pretty high standard of content and has been consistently honest with his audience. He's been big on pushing for ethical policies and transparency from developers and the press alike (he broke the Shadow of Mordor scandal, for example), so he's contributed to the industry in that way, too.

Bottom line, though, we're probably both very happy that PewDiePie did not take the prize.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 8, 2014)

I love how twitterites complain that he "doesn't represent them", lawl, of course he doesn't - he represents gamers and gamers have better things to do than sit on twitter - playing games, for instance. Good for him, I bet the award is uplifting for him after the recent health battle.


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## Tiffani (Dec 8, 2014)

Gahars said:


> Bottom line, though, we're probably both very happy that PewDiePie did not take the prize.


 

I'm actually surprised (and happy, for sure) he didn't, considering his legions of fans. I don't "get" his videos, I think I'm too old. I'm sure there's some humor to be had there, and maybe it's different now but I remember watching one of his videos a while back and it just reminded me of those annoying Fred videos that were popular years ago.


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## Gahars (Dec 8, 2014)

Tiffani said:


> I'm actually surprised (and happy, for sure) he didn't, considering his legions of fans. I don't "get" his videos, I think I'm too old. I'm sure there's some humor to be had there, and maybe it's different now but I remember watching one of his videos a while back and it just reminded me of those annoying Fred videos that were popular years ago.


 

Screaming and 12 year olds just go together like chocolate and peanut butter, I suppose.


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## Foxi4 (Dec 13, 2014)

This is why we can't have nice things and why social networking is cancer.


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## Gahars (Dec 13, 2014)

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAct...nos_tried_to_bribe_jennifer_daww_into/cmtj915

But remember, there's no problems with corruption in games journalism. It's just a smoke screen for mysogyny.


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## war2thegrave (Dec 13, 2014)

I can't copy/paste from psvita browser, but a small contingent of SJW have decided to break away from the main group and go after the "problematic" language used within the metal community.

So far, there is heavy resistance, but battle lines may be redrawn once the breakaway SJW group has decided on token female figureheads to recieve the fake rape/death threats which will be sure to mobilize the beta orbiters to save the damsels.

May the SJW drown in a sea of the metal communites apathy.


----------



## FAST6191 (Dec 13, 2014)

war2thegrave said:


> I can't copy/paste from psvita browser, but a small contingent of SJW have decided to break away from the main group and go after the "problematic" language used within the metal community.
> 
> So far, there is heavy resistance, but battle lines may be redrawn once the breakaway SJW group has decided on token female figureheads to recieve the fake rape/death threats which will be sure to mobilize the beta orbiters to save the damsels.
> 
> May the SJW drown in a sea of the metal communites apathy.



So having racked my brains I came up with nothing that I know of from metal but I am tangentially involved in most things so I thought I would look up slang terms, nothing again.

The best I have got is headbanging might be offensive to those that have seizures of the grand mal persuasion.

Edit.
Maybe long hair is gender appropriation?


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## Veho (Dec 14, 2014)

It's this, I think: 

http://www.academia.edu/6553886/Ext..._Metal_and_Grindcore_by_Sarah_Kitteringham_MA


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## FAST6191 (Dec 14, 2014)

Is every social studies or similar topic thesis/final year project required to be, or at least feature, "autobiography of a 20 something that has not done anything yet"?

Likewise I was always taught first person is to academic writing what goto is to programming, I guess I was lied to.

"Although the fields of psychology and musicology have yielded fascinating data on the metal scene, I will only analyze research from the fields of sociology and cultural studies, as they overlap both methodologically and theoretically with communication studies, the field which this thesis is being conducted in."
I think that probably says most things this thread and its sister thread need to know.

Anyway it is going to take me a while to make it through this one.


----------



## DCG (Jan 7, 2015)

http://pressfarttocontinue.com/2015/01/06/on-the-origins-of-gamejournopros/

Interesting read.
Skipped trough it a bit, cos I'm busy with work, but I'd say it's worth a read.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 7, 2015)

Nice link there DCG, perhaps not necessarily for the reasons the article claimed it was for, though I reckon it did do what it set out to do as well.

I have to do two things though
1) Sort out dates in my head 2005-2009 both seem like the dim and distant past and yesterday all at once, however my awareness of the passage of time is almost non-existent these days. 

2) Figure out if something got lost in the noise (rates of articles seem to be one or two a month there) or if people lost their way (the author of the article quotes several things that were great in light of all this).

Edit. It also linked me to the wonder that is http://www.gamestyleguide.com/VideoGameStyleGuideeBook.pdf
Many of you will be pleased to know they finally nailed down what an alpha (note that alpha build is not acceptable) and beta is, had I known the decades old debate was settled there in 2007 I might have slept better.

Edit 2. They even managed to provide a definition for casual and hardcore... I get a feeling there will be several more edits before I get to the end of this (and as you might have guessed I am only on C).

Edit 3. So Bullet Time was discouraged owing to it being a trademark of warner brothers (never actually knew that) and though it is not related per se I do bring it up in connection to the following
"Refer to digital distribution services by their official names, i.e. Xbox Live, Steam, Wii Shop Channel, PlayStation Store."
I am trying to figure out why this is.

The full quote would be
"digital distribution
The purchase
and/or delivery of a game or other piece of
content via a computer network."
and then that part above. I am unsure if this means use their official name if you are going to use one (the opening of the whole document leads with an example of naming consoles and the capitalisations needed) or a general suggestion to use them over a generic term.

Edit once more.
Apparently foe is an unacceptable synonym for enemy, as is baddie.

Editing, another time.

Apparently manual is the kind of technical term that first needs to be qualified by having the "instruction manual" in there beforehand.

I think I will leave it and just say read it.


----------



## Flame (Jan 11, 2015)




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## DCG (Jan 13, 2015)

Flame
Lol, hadn't seen that one yet 

Also, lots of things happening this week already :s
Ghazi seems to have picked a fight with an faction of the original anon's, which seems to be bound to end bad for them.


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## Gahars (Jan 13, 2015)

So, of course, McIntosh (Feminist Frequency producer and writer) had some... interesting things to say in the wake of the Charlie Habdo tragedy.
https://archive.today/0N22H#selection-4325.0-4577.4
https://archive.today/mtzVV

Now, we can both agree that threats of violence are deplorable, Jon, but when threats are actually carried out, you seem awful apathetic. "Eh, they were askin' for it."

Enter TotalBiscuit.



Spoiler










 
TotalBiscuit is pretty sick, what with the cancer and chemo, but he's definitely not suffering from erektile dysfunction.


----------



## Gahars (Jan 17, 2015)

I've been having pretty long shifts, so it's been hard for me to keep up with posting, but...

So, earlier this week or so, it was discovered that Tyler Wilde, a PCGamer writer (the guy who wrote the anti-PC Master Race article, funnily enough) was actually in a relationship with someone over at Ubisoft while he wrote several articles about the company and its games. #GamerGate raised awareness of this conflict of interest and potential breach of journalistic ethics.

And PCGamer responded... by acknowledging the breach, openly and honestly explaining the situation, and updating their disclosure rules to avoid any further problems. Everybody won here.

See, Kotaku, wasn't that easy? You could have avoided all of this months ago, but I guess "muh harassment conspiracy" was just more hip.

Of course, PCGamer making an honest effort to be transparent and serve its readers is now considered appeasement by the social justice zealot collective. "What if we had to admit that it's actually about ethics in journalism?"



Spoiler: terrorist group


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## FAST6191 (Jan 17, 2015)

Twitter is the gateway to terrorism? Glad I never started.


----------



## Rocc0 (Jan 18, 2015)

So ABC News recently ran an hit piece on Gamergate and interviewed Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu. Not only that, but they appear to be actively censoring the comments section of the Youtube video. I am surprised they just don't simply turn off the comments section all together like videos regarding Anita Sarkeesian usually tends to be (the Colbert report for example).

r/KotakuInAction thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2smddb/abc_news_is_actively_censoring_the_youtube/

Abc News:


Some of the censored comments
https://imgur.com/gallery/iX00h/new
Most of the comments in the imgur link have been hidden from the Youtube comment section, they are still available if you go through, for example, TotalBiscuit's or Thunderf00ts google+ account, so I guess they are not technically deleted, but it is still censorship in my opinion. Of course that comment section is private space and ABC News has every right to moderate their comment sections how they wish, but I still think this is very deplorable behavior coming from major news outlet. Most of you probably recognize some prominent Gamergate voices amongst the deleted comments.
I'm curious, how is ABC News regarded over there in US? Is it generally very respected/trusted news outlet? This is the first time I have seen their news reporting and it does not look too good. Not sure if they are lazy or corrupt.


----------



## bkifft (Jan 18, 2015)

Rocc0 said:


> Most of the comments in the imgur link have been hidden from the Youtube comment section, they are still available if you go through, for example, TotalBiscuit's or Thunderf00ts google+ account, so I guess they are not technically deleted, but it is still censorship in my opinion. Of course that comment section is private space and ABC News has every right to moderate their comment sections how they wish, but I still think this is very deplorable behavior coming from major news outlet. Most of you probably recognize some prominent Gamergate voices amongst the deleted comments.


 

AFAIK comments get autohidden when they accumulate enough spam reports. It's then up to the channel owner to sift through and tag those reported comments as ham or spam/ untagging or deleting them.

(edit: this is just meant as an alternate explanation, reducing "active purposeful deletion" to "can't be bothered to manage the channel")


----------



## DCG (Jan 21, 2015)

Alright, fresh from the battlefield:
http://theralphretort.com/intel-exp...eason-anitas-cashout-becomes-clearer-0120015/

It's getting funnier by the day, are these people all that dense?

Yesterday I read about that coffin guy (the one with the fake girlfriends) and also read that both he and "chris-chan" are anti's. Another former lol-cow (didn't know the word until yesterday) seems to be pro gamergate.
But the more I read about the anti's the more I'm losing hope in humanity...

A freaking 14 year old girl getting harassed after braiding her hair o.O
(for stealing the style from black people...)

I'm truly amazed almost every day about the shit some people spew....


----------



## Veho (Jan 21, 2015)




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## DCG (Jan 24, 2015)

Veho
Ah, seems I missed the friends part when I read this the first time....

I'm thinking we'd need some sort of Hippocratic Oath for journalists and reviewers :/
In which they either stay away of stuff with conflict of interest, or they just show al their cards at the beginning of the article...


----------



## Veho (Jan 24, 2015)

DCG said:


> I'm thinking we'd need some sort of Hippocratic Oath for journalists and reviewers :/


Too bad most of them take the H_y_pocr_i_tic oath instead


----------



## Veho (Feb 2, 2015)

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/561761720834592768


----------



## Gahars (Feb 3, 2015)

Veho said:


> *snip*


 

Come now, Veho, you're going to post that and not TotalBiscuit blowing her the fuck out? (Only figuratively, thank God)






https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/562028645813084162


----------



## Tiffani (Feb 4, 2015)

Gahars said:


> Come now, Veho, you're going to post that and not TotalBiscuit blowing her the fuck out? (Only figuratively, thank God)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I don't think words can properly express my anger at this. It's pretty obvious that someone told her this and she ran with it without checking it out. This is an open-world game, the entire fucking point is helping people out. Do you know how many men I've seen my husband save in this game, and he's only like 30% through? 
Wait a minute, why am I yelling? You guys know what's up with this chick. Oops, lol.
I don't know what's worse, her saying this or the sycophantic fools in her timeline agreeing with it.


----------



## Veho (Feb 5, 2015)




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## DCG (Mar 20, 2015)

Haven't been here for while now :s
(graduated in the mean time)

It's still going on, but it seems the focus is more on individual people now than the media itself (no more active digging and more bitching against people like harper (even though she deserves it))


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 20, 2015)

I see "Corruption In Games Journalism", I think there is an article on one of the greatest Wii games ever made.

PS: It also had a kickass trailer.


----------



## DCG (Mar 20, 2015)

XD
That reminds me.
The hufington post hadn't heard of Samus yet XD


----------



## bkifft (Mar 20, 2015)

Let my try to write a clickbaity headline:

"This "Anti Feminism Protest" prank started innocent enough. You won't be believe what happens at 2:20 ... [Triggerwarning: Violence against hats and cardboard]"


----------



## xwatchmanx (Mar 21, 2015)

DCG said:


> XD
> That reminds me.
> The hufington post hadn't heard of Samus yet XD


 
Who's she? Some obscure female character who's part of the problem, because reasons?


----------



## bkifft (Mar 21, 2015)

xwatchmanx said:


> Who's she? Some obscure female character who's part of the problem, because reasons?


 
She had to hide her gender in the first Metroid because patriarchal rape society and stuff.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Mar 22, 2015)

bkifft said:


> She had to hide her gender in the first Metroid because patriarchal rape society and stuff.


 
Remember, it's not about genocide, it's about ethics in ball morphing.


----------



## Veho (Mar 22, 2015)

DCG said:


> The hufington post hadn't heard of Samus yet XD


"-us" is a masculine ending, so Samus has to be a guy, but since the main character in that game is called Metroid (eh kills aliens and doesn't afraid of anything), Samus must be that pirate dragon guy. 
I'm not surprised Huff post haven't heard of Samus then, it would require that they finish the game and that's hard, man.


----------



## FAST6191 (Mar 22, 2015)

Relevant


----------



## DCG (Mar 23, 2015)

Veho said:


> "-us" is a masculine ending, so Samus has to be a guy, but since the main character in that game is called Metroid (eh kills aliens and doesn't afraid of anything), Samus must be that pirate dragon guy.
> I'm not surprised Huff post haven't heard of Samus then, it would require that they finish the game and that's hard, man.


 
It doesn't require them to finish the game 
She appears without a helmet in the first half an hour of Metroid Prime Corruption XD
Or in the intro of Metroid Other M


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 23, 2015)

DCG said:


> It doesn't require them to finish the game
> She appears without a helmet in the first half an hour of Metroid Prime Corruption XD
> Or in the intro of Metroid Other M


Or early mission logs in Fusion, where she mentions being called "Lady" by Adam. Even if they can't tell that she's female, that could be seen as a pretty progressive instance of her commanding officer/former gay lover referring to Samus by his preferred gender.


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## Veho (Mar 23, 2015)

Guys, guys...


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## bkifft (Mar 25, 2015)

FAST6191 said:


> Relevant
> [snip]


 
Let's see: everyone who likes this clip is a homophobe ableistic misandrist. Did I miss anything?


Anyway: I've stumbled about a great twitter user: https://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick.

Pure social justice/ antiGG satire genius (can't do good screencaps atm, will try and add some later unless someone else want's to).


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