# Nintendo gives more details about its online service, cloud saves get deleted if you cancel your sub



## SomeGamer (Sep 14, 2018)

Nintendo: To show y'all just how generous we are, you get a FREE 7-DAY TRIAL of features that were absolutely free before!


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## Enryx25 (Sep 14, 2018)

SomeGamer said:


> Nintendo: To show y'all just how generous we are, you get a FREE 7-DAY TRIAL of features that were absolutely free before!


Cloud saves and NES games are new features though.


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## ShadowOne333 (Sep 14, 2018)

Iffy much?
Really people, if I were you I would not give a single cent to Nintendo.
The service itself is atrocious and the catalogue of games available from older consoles is a fucking joke.

I don't get why people keep supporting this kind of shit to be honest.
Besides it's not like there are many good online games on the console.
And those that are free to play will continue to be even after the Online Service goes live (like Fortnite and others).


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## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 14, 2018)

FFS Nintendo, even Sony gives you 6 months to download your cloud saves after you cancel your PS+ subscription, would it kill you to do the same? God forbid Nintendo lose out on that precious 100mb worth of space some guy used to store his saves!


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## Chary (Sep 14, 2018)

Nintendo's online really seems like a sham. 

Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.


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## Windaga (Sep 14, 2018)

Yeah....so if I switch credit cards and forget to update my payment method, ALL of my saves are gone? Or if I'm on a plane without WiFi during the crossover period, I'm just out of luck? 

That's crazy. Especially if they don't let you pre-purchase years in bulk. Imagine buying the one month period to test the service out, and then losing all of your data at the end of the period without warning. That's nuts.


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## ShadowOne333 (Sep 14, 2018)

Don't give Nintendo a cent, and put those $20 dollars into supporting something like Yuzu or whatever Switch emulator is in development.
I can guarantee you 100% that the online service the emulator will have will be an infinite amount of times better than what Nintendo's shit is.


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## SirNapkin1334 (Sep 14, 2018)

That’s pretty mean.


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## guitarheroknight (Sep 14, 2018)

Nintendo is so obnoxious sometimes...


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## Marco_Buns (Sep 14, 2018)

_Why are you doing this Nintendo?_


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 14, 2018)

Chary said:


> Nintendo's online really seems like a sham.
> 
> Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.


I'm going to pay for it because realistically, it's pocket change per month if you do the yearly subscription. I'm waiting until I actually update and start playing online again, though

I really hope that "special offers" thing will be along the lines of a true Club Nintendo 2.0


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## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

Cloud saves get deleted if you cancel your sub ? WTF Nintendo are you fucking kidding ??? You just like the bad publicity and be in the bad spotlight ?  They NEVER learn


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## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

There is simple no reason to have the online hostage for any of these features.



Chary said:


> Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.


If people actually stand up against it, like the PC gamers did and stop making excuses, this whole nonsense would be done.


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## DrayanoX (Sep 14, 2018)

Chary said:


> Additionally, if you ever lapse in your subscription, you will lose all cloud data. "Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership." If you cancel or let it expire, you'll lose all data saved on the cloud.


Fucking lol


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## wurstpistole (Sep 14, 2018)

Nes controllers only purchaseable with an active subscription... Black Market on eBay, here I come! My console is banned anyway, couldn't give any shits about this if I wanted but damn, they know how to make this as complicated as possible.


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## AutumnWolf (Sep 14, 2018)

Nintendo was doing so well, but now they are just shooting themselves in the foot

Don't get 'Switch online' people


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 14, 2018)

Well.. Guess I don't care at this point if I'm banned. More so the principle than the action.. The current state of affairs in gaming is ridiculous...


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

You know what else lets you back up your saves and play NES on your Switch? Homebrew!


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## x65943 (Sep 14, 2018)

Paid online is one of the main reasons consoles need to die


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## kuwanger (Sep 14, 2018)

I'm going to call it right now.  Within a year, they'll stop adding new NES games (except maybe one or two in the next 5 after).  All I can say is how pathetic this all sounds.


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## Arck (Sep 14, 2018)

I hope they'll fix all of this shit when they'll see the reactions of everyone...


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## ShadowOne333 (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> If people actually stand up against it, like the PC gamers did and stop making excuses, this whole nonsense would be done.


This is EXACTLY what needs to be done.
Customers need to fucking stand up to it put a stop to Nintendo and its bullshit.

Nintendo in all honesty doesn't give a shit about customer input nor its fandom, they just do whatever the fuck they feel like expecting everyone to go along with it. They really need a hit where it hurts them the most, and that's in the money.
Hit their greed, and they will have no other option but to start listening to their customers and fandom instead of just ignoring them like they have been doing for decades.


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## Catsinabucket (Sep 14, 2018)

I wonder if - presuming Nintendo offers an automatic renewal of the monthly sub - if the cloud saves will remain between the transition of one month to the next, or if the saves will be tied to the "current" month.

What really bums me out is that there's not even an option to download the cloud data.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> This is EXACTLY what needs to be done.
> Customers need to fucking stand up to it put a stop to Nintendo and its bullshit.
> 
> Nintendo in all honesty doesn't give a shit about customer input nor its fandom, they just do whatever the fuck they feel like expecting everyone to go along with it. They really need a hit where it hurts them the most, and that's in the money.
> Hit their greed, and they will have no other option but to start listening to their customers and fandom instead of just ignoring them like they have been doing for decades.


I WAS considering getting a Switch after the Direct today, but I think I'll give some money to Yuzu and Cemu instead.


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## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

Wait why is no one talking about this:


Chary said:


> Those two wireless NES controllers _are only purchasable if you have a current paid Nintendo Switch Online sub_.



The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?


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## leon315 (Sep 14, 2018)

One more reason to hack ur Switch and back urself ur precious saves!


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Wait why is no one talking about this:
> 
> 
> The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?


I saw one or two complaints earlier, but yes, also bullshit.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Wait why is no one talking about this:
> 
> 
> The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?


I would imagine the controllers can still be _used_ if you don't have a subscription, you'll just have to buy them from scalpers on ebay for 10x their normal price.


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## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Wait why is no one talking about this:
> 
> 
> The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?


Lol didn't even see that. Constant remasters and a lack of new games, their fucked up policies, losing your cloud saves when subscription stops and even wireless controllers not working without a subscription. And that after everybody thought Nintendo finally listened to their hardcore audience and that they finally maybe had changed. They're really doing their best to make their console be another fiasco again


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## BlastedGuy9905 (Sep 14, 2018)

w h y



*w    h    y*


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I would imagine the controllers can still be _used_ if you don't have a subscription, you'll just have to buy them from scalpers on ebay for 10x their normal price.


That unfortunately sounds plausible, given how Ninty's crap works. Buyers probably have to have some kind of confirmed NNID. One can only _HOPE_ that there's not some firmware killswitch built into it that goes off without an account and stops it from pairing. Or a LOT of secondhand buyers could get real pissed.


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## sup3rgh0st (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Wait why is no one talking about this:
> 
> 
> The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?


What? What are you talking about? It says that the controllers are "_only *purchasable *if you have a current paid Nintendo Switch Online sub_". The key word there is purchasable, not usable...


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## Pleng (Sep 14, 2018)

Chary said:


> If you play the NES games, you need to check in every 7 days by going online to verify your account.



Maybe I'm just tired but I don't understand what this is saying? If I play NES games then I need to go online and verify my account every 7 days... Or what?


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## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I would imagine the controllers can still be _used_ if you don't have a subscription, you'll just have to buy them from scalpers on ebay for 10x their normal price.


Yeesh. Seems like Nintendo and scalpers have almost a symbiotic relationship at this point.

Gonna quote myself because it's just as topical as it was a week or so ago:


OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Whether Nintendo likes it or not, they are directly competing with free community homebrew. And right now, they're losing.


--


sup3rgh0st said:


> What? What are you talking about? It says that the controllers are "_only *purchasable *if you have a current paid Nintendo Switch Online sub_". The key word there is purchasable, not usable...


The lack of specification confused me. Still, given Ninty's track record I would not even be surprised.


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## Enryx25 (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Wait why is no one talking about this:
> 
> 
> *The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?*


Why the hell would you want a NES controller if you cant play NES games?


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## kuwanger (Sep 14, 2018)

leon315 said:


> One more reason to hack ur Switch and back urself ur precious saves!



One more reason to abandon the Switch.  As ShadowOne333 put it, the only thing Nintendo understands is money. :/  Buying their systems just encourages them.  I sadly say this as nominally a Nintendo fan.


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## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

Enryx25 said:


> Why the hell would you want a NES controller if you cant play NES games?


RetroNX


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 14, 2018)

Pleng said:


> Maybe I'm just tired but I don't understand what this is saying? If I play NES games then I need to go online and verify my account every 7 days... Or what?


Yes, exactly that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



kuwanger said:


> One more reason to abandon the Switch.  As ShadowOne333 put it, the only thing Nintendo understands is money. :/  Buying their systems just encourages them.  I sadly say this as nominally a Nintendo fan.



I already have my Switch. Just going to stick with community support and updates at this point. I sincerely dislike the direction Nintendo has chosen with their services. I like the Switch as a system, but the support is (ironically enough) just not all there.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> RetroNX


8BitDo makes some decent hardware.


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## Pleng (Sep 14, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Yes, exactly that.



Exactly *what*?!

I asked "Or what" as is "what happens if I don't go online within 7 days?"


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 14, 2018)

Pleng said:


> Exactly *what*?!
> 
> I asked "Or what" as is "what happens if I don't go online within 7 days?"


You can't play them... You'll need to "validate" the game every 7 days, or else you'll just not have access to them. Unless Nintendo has a time bomb that Uninstalls said games. It's fairly simple...


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## Pleng (Sep 14, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You can't play them... You'll need to "validate" the game every 7 days, or else you'll just not have access to them. Unless Nintendo has a time bomb that Uninstalls said games. It's fairly simple...



Right. That makes sense then... To play the NES games you have to have been online at least once within the last 7 days.


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## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

For this instant, buying the Switch isn't the problem, the direct problem is people planning to still buy online because it "only $20". Just no.


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## sup3rgh0st (Sep 14, 2018)

Memoir said:


> You can't play them... You'll need to "validate" the game every 7 days, or else you'll just not have access to them. Unless Nintendo has a time bomb that Uninstalls said games. It's fairly simple...


Where is the source for this? I'm looking at the Nintendo page, but I'm not seeing anything about this 7 day thing.
https://www.nintendo.com/switch/online-service/nes/


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 14, 2018)

sup3rgh0st said:


> Where is the source for this? I'm looking at the Nintendo page, but I'm not seeing anything about this 7 day thing.
> https://www.nintendo.com/switch/online-service/nes/


Ask Chary...


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 14, 2018)

Yes...yes...let the hate flow through you!

I'm glad people are starting to see what I've been seeing for almost a decade now.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 14, 2018)

sup3rgh0st said:


> Where is the source for this? I'm looking at the Nintendo page, but I'm not seeing anything about this 7 day thing.
> https://www.nintendo.com/switch/online-service/nes/


https://www.nintendo.com/switch/online-service/faq/ 
http://prntscr.com/kufuwz


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Yes...yes...let the hate flow through you!
> 
> I'm glad people are starting to see what I've been seeing for almost a decade now.


I've been disillusioned with Nintendo for years now, especially as I've become more involved in scenes like this one, and not staying as an average consumer. It's frankly disgusting to see so many companies rolling out such crappy business practices.


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## Clydefrosch (Sep 14, 2018)

What exactly is your problem here? When do you ever need cloud saves outside of moving from one console to another? The safed save is still there on your console so just re-upload it after paying again.

Also, everyone being pissed when they got 18 months of a service they were originally meant to pay for months ago, God you guys piss me off sometimes.


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## MiiJack (Sep 14, 2018)

Can't we reach out Nintendo about the service, like how to make it better?


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## SomeGamer (Sep 14, 2018)

Enryx25 said:


> Cloud saves and NES games are new features though.


True but Online Play and Smartphone App are not so my statement still stands.


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## huma_dawii (Sep 14, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Iffy much?
> Really people, if I were you I would not give a single cent to Nintendo.
> The service itself is atrocious and the catalogue of games available from older consoles is a fucking joke.
> 
> ...



Seriously this service is just plain HORRIBLE. I can't understand how some people want to pay for it .___.


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## Clydefrosch (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> I've been disillusioned with Nintendo for years now, especially as I've become more involved in scenes like this one, and not staying as an average consumer. It's frankly disgusting to see so many companies rolling out such crappy business practices.



If you want that next zelda, you'll make sure Nintendo remains financially liquid.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 14, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Also, everyone being pissed when they got 18 months of a service they were originally meant to pay for months ago, God you guys piss me off sometimes.


A service that has been free for decades, a service which has only gotten easier to spin up and run in said decades (demands have remained fairly static for most things)... do you want to try that one again?


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## Darth Meteos (Sep 14, 2018)

This sounds pretty predatory. Nintendo has childhood characters, but the actual actions of the company are ludicrously harsh, and shit I would expect from companies like EA.

This is... Really bad.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> If you want that next zelda, you'll make sure Nintendo remains financially liquid.


If Nintendo wants my business, they can use more consumer-friendly practices. Give people a grace on their renewal and cloud saves, take away the absurd NNID restriction on the controllers. Oh, and stop maybe fucking over the fans in general?


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## MiiJack (Sep 14, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> A service that has been free for decades, a service which has only gotten easier to spin up and run in said decades (demands have remained fairly static for most things)... do you want to try that one again?


Better servers might be why it's now a paid service. Unless they just make you go peer-to-peer, that's just bad.


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## Jacklack3 (Sep 14, 2018)

It went from simple "pay us a month to play online" to now this confusing mess.


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## kuwanger (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> For this instant, buying the Switch isn't the problem, the direct problem is people planning to still buy online because it "only $20". Just no.



At this point in history, I'd say the online experience should be part of the "buying the Switch".  $20/year to play some NES games and have cloud backups of saves (that can be immediately lost if your subscription laps for a day)?  Steam offers the equivalent in games for free and basically unlimited cloud backup.  Other services cost more but offer a lot more features.  This would be a radically different thing if there were substantially more games or you could do save backups outside of this.

Of course, take all of this with a grain of salt since I don't even own a Switch.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 14, 2018)

MiiJack said:


> Better servers might be why it's now a paid service. Unless they just make you go peer-to-peer, that's just bad.


If Nintendo can't be bothered to spin up a few cheap VMs (they could probably fund years of most games/systems with a rounding error for them), give users the chance to run their own and so forth then they are worse than I thought (and I have been watching since the gamecube).


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## The Real Jdbye (Sep 14, 2018)

I hope they will at least give you a grace period in case you forget to renew. Something like 14 days would be good.


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## Clydefrosch (Sep 14, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> A service that has been free for decades, a service which has only gotten easier to spin up and run in said decades (demands have remained fairly static for most things)... do you want to try that one again?


A service with servers this community specifically has abused for its easy access during the freeshop years.
A service that has not really become much cheaper for the companies setting them up and won't become cheaper considering projected switch sales numbers. 
A service that's still cheaper than the other gaming giants. It's less than 2 bucks a month for Christ's sake


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## AshuraZro (Sep 14, 2018)

While Online is a low cost, they've done a very bad job justifying that cost. I would need to see exactly how cloud saves work on their platform though before I decide how just how poor their policy on deleting them is.


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## MiiJack (Sep 14, 2018)

Also, why couldn't they backup your saves like they did on the 3ds?


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## comput3rus3r (Sep 14, 2018)

why are you all hating on Nintendo? Don't they make fully hackable systems generation after generation for all your haxor needs?
I say thank you Nintendo!


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## FAST6191 (Sep 14, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> A service with servers this community specifically has abused for its easy access during the freeshop years.
> A service that has not really become much cheaper for the companies setting them up and won't become cheaper considering projected switch sales numbers.
> A service that's still cheaper than the other gaming giants. It's less than 2 bucks a month for Christ's sake


And?
The bandwidth, IO/db peformance, storage... costs of servers have plummeted. The demands of games they do have stayed the same. Switch sales numbers are high, games sold which is the bigger tell of server demand are not.
Still infinitely more than free which again has been demonstrably pulled off for decades now elsewhere. If they are going to be greedy cunts then I will call them on it.



comput3rus3r said:


> why are you all hating on Nintendo? Don't they make fully hackable systems generation after generation for all your haxor needs?
> I say thank you Nintendo!


Because that 3ds and Wii U homebrew was such a thing which could not have been obtained everywhere else?


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## Eddypikachu (Sep 14, 2018)

Hmm yeah I'm still skipping out on this


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## renes2 (Sep 14, 2018)

You.... You... You were meant to defeat the dark side! 
Not to join them!

Nah, But really, The switch could Do so mich more. 
But Nintendo itself reduces it to a Port and Old School Machine.
Why? Oh god, Why Nintendo?
It is Like everybody who owned a wiiU/3ds and bought a switch, is just here to play all of the games again and again.
I dont know how many Times Nintendo will offer US their old games again and again. 
I really really hope, Q4 and Q1/2019 are really bringing the old Nintendo Flair back, otherwise, I will well my Switch (Like it even matters, people will still buy all this Shit)


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## Windaga (Sep 14, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm going to pay for it because realistically, it's pocket change per month if you do the yearly subscription. I'm waiting until I actually update and start playing online again, though
> 
> I really hope that "special offers" thing will be along the lines of a true Club Nintendo 2.0




Agreed. This is what it actually comes down to. Their policies are asinine at times, but the vast majority of Switch owners and players won't care in the end, because, realistically, it doesn't personally affect them, they don't know, or they simply don't care.

I'm going to pay for the service because I want to play Smash Bros and Mario Kart online. It's inexpensive, and the majority of the downsides don't actually affect me, or my many family members who I'll be playing with. 

But the save data thing is a tad bothersome - especially for a handheld device. I'd understand it (slightly) more for a console that never leaves your living room, but handhelds are just more prone to breaking, dropping, getting forgotten, stolen, etc.


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## Hozu (Sep 14, 2018)

*Is my save data retained if I cancel my Nintendo Switch Online membership?*

We are unable to guarantee that cloud save data will be retained after an extended period of time from when your membership is ended. However, you can continue to use the save data that is saved to your system memory.

Source: https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22521/p/897

Sounds like the same thing as Pokémon Bank. ie. the space your data is in becomes available some short time after your subscription expires, and it's just up to chance as to whether or not it ends up being overwritten. Considering that this is a source directly from NoA, it should be added to the main post, hm?


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## DeslotlCL (Sep 14, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> A service with servers this community specifically has abused for its easy access during the freeshop years.
> A service that has not really become much cheaper for the companies setting them up and won't become cheaper considering projected switch sales numbers.
> A service that's still cheaper than the other gaming giants. It's less than 2 bucks a month for Christ's sake


You are the reason why nintendo keep pulling shit out of their butts like this one and throwing it in their costumers faces.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

x65943 said:


> Paid online is one of the main reasons consoles need to die


I'm actually okay with paid online, provided I have good incentives to pay for the service beyond just, "Give us money for multiplayer." Unfortunately, Nintendo's offerings here are paltry and borderline offensive.


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## VinsCool (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> I'm actually okay with paid online, provided I have good incentives to pay for the service beyond just, "Give us money for multiplayer." Unfortunately, Nintendo's offerings here are paltry and borderline offensive.


More like "our fans are so dedicated they will pay for garbage anyway!"


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## DarkSeele (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> Wait why is no one talking about this:
> 
> 
> The controllers won't work on the Switch if you don't have a current subscription? Wtf?





Arecaidian Fox said:


> I saw one or two complaints earlier, but yes, also bullshit.





Tom Bombadildo said:


> I would imagine the controllers can still be _used_ if you don't have a subscription, you'll just have to buy them from scalpers on ebay for 10x their normal price.



Do u guys even read?
Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/9fmglf/nintendoswitchonline_will_feel_even_more/


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## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> It's less than 2 bucks a month for Christ's sake


Just because something is cheap doesn't make it worth it.


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## MarkDarkness (Sep 14, 2018)

Well... I was holding off until this announcement to mod my Switch. Now I will. What is best right now? Rei's? Will get to it.

Nintendo has very fun innovators with good ideas working for it, but its commercial department, which always sucked, has become abhorent this year with the new administration. I cannot in good conscience support it. I will vote with my money and stop buying their things.

MY SAVES ARE MY PERSONAL PROPERTY, if you are walling them in your stupid server, at least freaking keep them in a semi-permanent fashion, you greedy fucks.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

DarkSeele said:


> Do u guys even read?
> Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/9fmglf/nintendoswitchonline_will_feel_even_more/


Do you even care that it's 60 freakin' dollars for two NES-style controllers that you can only get with an active account? I don't care who you are, needing a subscription just to buy/use a "special" controller is pretty damned idiotic.


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## Dubbicakes (Sep 14, 2018)

Honestly, the only thing that seems unreasonable is the controllers needing a subscription to purchase. I have an SN30 Pro so it's not the end of the world, those NES controllers are pretty neat though.


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## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> I'm actually okay with paid online, provided I have good incentives to pay for the service beyond just, "Give us money for multiplayer." Unfortunately, Nintendo's offerings here are paltry and borderline offensive.


Like I said, any and all "incentives" can be its own service. Instead of hijacking the online for absolutely no reason.


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## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Do you even care that it's 60 freakin' dollars for two NES-style controllers that you can only get with an active account? I don't care who you are, needing a subscription just to buy/use a "special" controller is pretty damned idiotic.


Yeah that price is over the top. I always said after the gamecube days nintendo stopped caring for their fans but everybody always said i was wrong. Glad people their eyes are finally getting opened how greedy Nintendo actually became and anti consumer they are


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## Localhorst86 (Sep 14, 2018)

I mean, yeah. That's to be expected. Of course a grace period would be nice, but it's not like N is "killing your saves". Only the backups on your cloud storage will be deleted, your local saves will still be there for you to play. Unless your grace period ends and you litterally break your switch the next day before you can renew your account and re-sync to the cloud to have fresh backups, I don't see this as a huge issue.

Will I purchase Nintendo Online? Absolutely not.


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## Dissaor (Sep 14, 2018)

Is there anyway to create a private server for MK8D for people with CFW?


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## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

To be honest I wouldn't even be that mad if we could do free local save backups.
PS4, PC, and Xbox can all do this, and then if you want online backups you can pay for that.

Why can't Nintendo do the same?


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## Glyptofane (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Do you even care that it's 60 freakin' dollars for two NES-style controllers that you can only get with an active account? I don't care who you are, needing a subscription just to buy/use a "special" controller is pretty damned idiotic.


I kind of feel like scum knowing I will buy the controllers.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> Like I said, any and all "incentives" can be its own service. Instead of hijacking the online for absolutely no reason.


That's probably a viable model, too.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Glyptofane said:


> I kind of feel like scum knowing I will buy the controllers.


*Shrug* If you like 'em and want 'em, no one is stopping you, I certainly won't judge you for it. Nintendo is the one I'm annoyed with.


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## kuwanger (Sep 14, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> A service that has not really become much cheaper for the companies setting them up and won't become cheaper considering projected switch sales numbers.
> A service that's still cheaper than the other gaming giants. It's less than 2 bucks a month for Christ's sake



Again, Steam does it free and do I mention that I bought a game (RAGE) for ~$2.50 that was ~21GB?  Lots of PC games are that sort of insanely massive.  By your argument Steam should be charging a monthly service fee in the $10/month range. 

PS - And to be fair the average size of my installed games is ~500MB-1GB (only a few games are actually in the 10GB+ installed size so not sure on their download size).


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

Private severs for Switch games, I would hack my Switch so quickly without ever looking back.


----------



## a9lh-1user (Sep 14, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> This is EXACTLY what needs to be done.
> *Customers need to fucking stand up to it put a stop to Nintendo and its bullshit.*
> 
> Nintendo in all honesty doesn't give a shit about customer input nor its fandom, they just do whatever the fuck they feel like expecting everyone to go along with it. They really need a hit where it hurts them the most, and that's in the money.
> Hit their greed, and they will have no other option but to start listening to their customers and fandom instead of just ignoring them like they have been doing for decades.




Realy?
MS Windows = do what they want and most people are using it!
Android = do what they want and many people are using it!
Apple = do what they want and many people are using it!
Most Software Companys = do what they want and all people are using it!

And you are thinking someone will stand up against it?

 Nice try but i dont think so


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Sep 14, 2018)

I just couldn't contain:


----------



## Hyborix3 (Sep 14, 2018)

It’s funny how Nintendo talks more about the online services, more crappy cons pile up and they think it’s okay/good cause’ it’s Nintendo


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> I just couldn't contain:


Yes, all the yes. The TV is Reggie.


----------



## Sonic Angel Knight (Sep 14, 2018)

OkazakiTheOtaku said:


> To be honest I wouldn't even be that mad if we could do free local save backups.
> PS4, PC, and Xbox can all do this, and then if you want online backups you can pay for that.
> 
> Why can't Nintendo do the same?


Probably because no one on xbox or playstation used their consoles in the past to modify their save data for exploiting the system for homebrew?

As much as I also would like to be able to back up save data for free, obviously that's not gonna happen, just look at the wii u. A whole console without any way to backup save data.

What would have been a nice addition to the services is maybe having all those game ports import the save data from the other systems so we don't have to start all over. Kinda bad enough the game ports cost a full $60 all over again but now I have to start all over too especially in some games like Bayonetta that takes some time to grind back all power ups from no save. Or just use my save data i have on wii u or something.


----------



## frankGT (Sep 14, 2018)

Those 2 controllers for 60$ just to use on the switch nes emulator seem like a waste... I would rather add a bit more money for 2 more joycons, less nostalgia, more function.

They really should extend the time of deletion of the save data... maybe they will after the bad press a measure so greed oriented creates... it's quite easy to implement something like that from a server standpoint.

Thinking of the online library of the switch and the added value in the form of old nes games, the "low" subscription value is looking more and more like a bad deal and showing how greedy nintendo really is.


----------



## Minox (Sep 14, 2018)

So why is it one should pay for Nintendo's online services? As far as I can tell they don't offer that many fantastic online games and their other online services seem subpar at most.


----------



## Closet Nerd (Sep 14, 2018)

N's laziness and ineptitude in this area has been evident for so long, these petty stipulations and strings they pull don't shock me anymore.

What would shock me is if pokemon gen 8 is online only. Only then will we have reached new levels of fuckery.

This is just more N ineptitude.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 14, 2018)

The fact that there are people out there defending this shit...


----------



## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Probably because no one on xbox or playstation used their consoles in the past to modify their save data for exploiting the system for homebrew?


I understand your point, but Microsoft and Sony don't have some magic strategy to prevent that. It's just a part of their security chain that prevents that situation. Nintendo is a competent enough company with enough resources. I'm sure they could work something out for their customers.


----------



## Billy Acuña (Sep 14, 2018)

Thinking if those NES controllers can be unlocked why some sort of homebrew/CFW Sysmodule  because I want to use those on RetroNX 

Enviado desde mi LG-X240 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Closet Nerd (Sep 14, 2018)

Also, was the NES classic a huge flop? Pretty sure it sold like hotcakes. Why then does nintendo shove these old nes games in our face like a Times Square hustler? We get it, you made some classics 30 years ago. Jeeze.


----------



## OkazakiTheOtaku (Sep 14, 2018)

Closet Nerd said:


> Also, was the NES classic a huge flop? Pretty sure it sold like hotcakes. Why then does nintendo shove these old nes games in our face like a Times Square hustler? We get it, you made some classics 30 years ago. Jeeze.


They're trying to monopolize people's nostalgia. Take down ROM sites, feed customers piecemeal, sell them a dedicated nostalgia console, etc.


----------



## DarkSeele (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Do you even care that it's 60 freakin' dollars for two NES-style controllers that you can only get with an active account? I don't care who you are, *needing a subscription just to buy/use a "special" controller is pretty damned idiotic*.





kumikochan said:


> Yeah that price is over the top. I always said after the gamecube days nintendo stopped caring for their fans but everybody always said i was wrong. Glad people their eyes are finally getting opened how greedy Nintendo actually became and anti consumer they are



Guys, No one’s forcing you to buy the controller 
*If you think about it, what reason should there be to get them with a subscription? Seems like a nice way to prevents scalpers stockpiling them*.

I already own a 8bitdo SF30Pro. It was way cheaper, and it works on everything I own.....including the Switch. 



Edit: I meant SF30Pro


----------



## cvskid (Sep 14, 2018)

MiiJack said:


> Better servers might be why it's now a paid service. Unless they just make you go peer-to-peer, that's just bad.


I feel like better servers won't matter too much since everyone who plays online on nintendo switch uses a wifi connection instead of hard wired.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

DarkSeele said:


> Guys, No one’s forcing you to buy the controller
> If you think about it, what reason should there be to get them with a subscription? Seems like a nice way to prevents scalpers stockpiling them.
> 
> I already own a 8bitdo NES30Pro. It was way cheaper, and it works on everything I own.....including the Switch.


I had to do this the other day...

Consumer Choice = Good
Forcing Consumers to Use Products/Services = Bad

It doesn't matter if I _want_ the damned things or not, people should have the freedom to purchase them without needing to go through hoops. Plus, it's all about presentation. If it had been something more like, "Hey, those who bought a subscription get to buy a pair early and for (maybe) a small discount," I'd be saying that's pretty nifty. But no, that's not what happened. Nintendo is trying to railroad people into using their services by dangling a carrot, rather blatantly. Yes, lots of companies dangle carrots, but this just reeks of greed that's approacing Take-Two Interactive levels of asshattery.


----------



## vbarros22 (Sep 14, 2018)

SomeGamer said:


> Nintendo: To show y'all just how generous we are, you get a FREE 7-DAY TRIAL of features that were absolutely free before!


We have been in free trial since March 3, 2017, but it's still a shame


----------



## Rune (Sep 14, 2018)

wurstpistole said:


> Nes controllers only purchaseable with an active subscription... Black Market on eBay, here I come! My console is banned anyway, couldn't give any shits about this if I wanted but damn, they know how to make this as complicated as possible.


To be fair, the NES controllers are supposed to be used with the NES games they're offering with their online subscription. Outside that there's no real use for them. And if you're interested in using them for emulators for some reason, you're better off buying 8bitdo's controllers, especially considering the price of the official ones.


----------



## A Plus Ric (Sep 14, 2018)

20 dollars a year. Ya'll upset are so fucking petty. hahaha. 20 dollars a year. that's like less than $.06 a day. literally.  could look in your couch and find a years sub in change. (if you can't afford 20 dollars for a full years sub *which is 40 dollars cheaper than ps4 and xbox live* you probably shouldn't even have a switch)


----------



## graeme122 (Sep 14, 2018)

MiiJack said:


> Better servers might be why it's now a paid service. Unless they just make you go peer-to-peer, that's just bad.


I thought it was p2p.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> 20 dollars a year. Ya'll upset are so fucking petty. hahaha. 20 dollars a year. that's like less than $.06 a day. literally.  could look in your couch and find a years sub in change. (if you can't afford 20 dollars for a full years sub *which is 40 dollars cheaper than ps4 and xbox live* you probably shouldn't even have a switch)


I don't think the issue is the _cost_, it's what you're getting. After paying for the console, the game, and now a service, you have the option to buy a pair of overpriced NES controllers. The cost of the service is affordable, there's just jack all for incentive, to the point it's almost insulting they're rolling this out as-is. Not to mention the BS of only being able to get the controllers with a subscription.


----------



## A Plus Ric (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> I don't think the issue is the _cost_, it's what you're getting. After paying for the console, the game, and now a service, you have the option to buy a pair of overpriced NES controllers. The cost of the service is affordable, there's just jack all for incentive, to the point it's almost insulting they're rolling this out as-is. Not to mention the BS of only being able to get the controllers with a subscription.




You don't have to buy them. You also get NES games to play for free. And from what some rumors say and from how that is looking (the icons photos i think i saw leaked somewhere), you will probably have some SNES games and maybe other systems later to play for free on the service. Don't act like the only thing is those cool controllers. Those controllers might have all the function as regular ones minus a thumb stick.  For all we know later on they will start a monthly free games part on it too who knows. You get a heck of a lot more than you got when Xbox Live first rolled out their service on the first Xbox.


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

Hozu said:


> *Is my save data retained if I cancel my Nintendo Switch Online membership?*
> 
> We are unable to guarantee that cloud save data will be retained after an extended period of time from when your membership is ended. However, you can continue to use the save data that is saved to your system memory.
> 
> ...


*After my Nintendo Switch Online subscription expires, will my Save Data Cloud files and Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online save data be erased?*

Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership. Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online also uses the Save Data Cloud, so the same applies. However, if you keep the Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online save data saved locally on your Nintendo Switch console, then you can use it again if you purchase another membership.

Source: https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Nintendo-Switch/Nintendo-Switch-Online/FAQ-1374625.html


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> 20 dollars a year. Ya'll upset are so fucking petty. hahaha. 20 dollars a year. that's like less than $.06 a day. literally.  could look in your couch and find a years sub in change. (if you can't afford 20 dollars for a full years sub *which is 40 dollars cheaper than ps4 and xbox live* you probably shouldn't even have a switch)





KingVamp said:


> For this instant, buying the Switch isn't the problem, the direct problem is people planning to still buy online because it "only $20". Just no.



Meanwhile, PC is still playing for free. If the console makers goal was to push people towards PC, they are doing a very good job.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> You don't have to buy them. You also get NES games to play for free. And from what some rumors say and from how that is looking (the icons photos i think i saw leaked somewhere), you will probably have some SNES games and maybe other systems later to play for free on the service. Don't act like the only thing is those cool controllers. Those controllers might have all the function as regular ones minus a thumb stick.  For all we know later on they will start a monthly free games part on it too who knows. You get a heck of a lot more than you got when Xbox Live first rolled out their service on the first Xbox.


And hey, if that happens, I'll be happy to have been wrong. But right now, as-is, this is a terrible set of incentives. And I'm not buying the controllers, there's better options if I want. My point was and has been that people shouldn't need to jump through an extra hoop to buy them. I'd much rather have seen subscribers get a discount on them or something, but still be available to everyone. Who knows, maybe other games will work with them besides the NES titles, maybe third-party devs want to have a nostalgia trip with their product. And what about collectors? There have to be collectors who don't have a subscription. And, really, you can't compare an online service that launched in 2002 to one coming out in kinda-late 2018.


----------



## A Plus Ric (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> Meanwhile, PC is still playing for free. If the console makers goal was to push people towards PC, they are doing a very good job.




Meanwhile a PC to play most of those free games good online costs well over 300 dollars. So if you took the extra 800 on average for a stocked pc setup for gaming at normal to medium visual level....and divided that by 20....That is 40 years of Switch online service u could pay for.


----------



## Nollog (Sep 14, 2018)

I remember when everyone lost their shit when Microsoft wanted people to check in online every month to verify their game purchases.

Nice move Nintendo.


----------



## A Plus Ric (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> And hey, if that happens, I'll be happy to have been wrong. But right now, as-is, this is a terrible set of incentives. And I'm not buying the controllers, there's better options if I want. My point was and has been that people shouldn't need to jump through an extra hoop to buy them. I'd much rather have seen subscribers get a discount on them or something, but still be available to everyone. Who knows, maybe other games will work with them besides the NES titles, maybe third-party devs want to have a nostalgia trip with their product. And what about collectors? There have to be collectors who don't have a subscription. And, really, you can't compare an online service that launched in 2002 to one coming out in kinda-late 2018.




What is the difference if the only thing the controllers work on is the NES library with the Subscription? If it won't work on other games why are you so upset? Because you want to use emulators on there and play all your pirated roms? Thats like you offering friends free BBQ, and some bums coming over and picketing because you are only offering BBQ to friends.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> 20 dollars a year. Ya'll upset are so fucking petty. hahaha. 20 dollars a year. that's like less than $.06 a day. literally.  could look in your couch and find a years sub in change. (if you can't afford 20 dollars for a full years sub *which is 40 dollars cheaper than ps4 and xbox live* you probably shouldn't even have a switch)


When the only redeeming quality about a "service" is that it's cheaper, maybe it's time to think twice about why you are defending it.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> What is the difference if the only thing the controllers work on is the NES library with the Subscription? If it won't work on other games why are you so upset? Because you want to use emulators on there and play all your pirated roms? Thats like you offering friends free BBQ, and some bums coming over and picketing because you are only offering BBQ to friends.


What makes you think my Switch is hacked? What makes you think anyone I know in real life has a hacked Switch? Stop assuming. In the end, you're right, it makes no difference to _me_. Like I said, I'M NOT GETTING A SET. It makes a difference to other people, though, and the way they've locked the purchase behind the paywall of their services is a shady as fuck move, considering they're fucking controllers.


----------



## neotank19 (Sep 14, 2018)

If I owned a switch, I would simply mod it and make my own gamesave backups. 

The reason I joined gbatemp was to learn how to do exactly that on my wii years ago.

The wii had saves you could not backup natively, yet homebrew did it with ease. Never did understand why the wii (or any game system) has locked gamesaves.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Sep 14, 2018)

Id rather just buy myself some pizzas with 20 dollars than give it to nintendo for this service


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

DarkSeele said:


> Guys, No one’s forcing you to buy the controller
> *If you think about it, what reason should there be to get them with a subscription? Seems like a nice way to prevents scalpers stockpiling them*.
> 
> I already own a 8bitdo NES30Pro. It was way cheaper, and it works on everything I own.....including the Switch.


So according to you consumers can't complain about a price and call them out for that ?We just have to keep quiet and keep our mouth shut and just be verbal by paying it or not ?? Hmm, if it were just so simple.


----------



## MeowMeowMeow (Sep 14, 2018)

Welp time to get my switch banned.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Chary said:


> Nintendo's online really seems like a sham.
> 
> Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.


Same goes with Apple products.


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

I feel like the prices of the controllers makes sense. Anything base on the Joy-Con is going be expensive.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> I feel like the prices of the controllers makes sense. Anything base on the Joy-Con is going be expensive.


But they don't have any of the features of the Joy-cons at all. AFAIK, they're literally just two wireless NES controllers that charge via the joycon rails.


----------



## Daisy (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> Meanwhile a PC to play most of those free games good online costs well over 300 dollars. So if you took the extra 800 on average for a stocked pc setup for gaming at normal to medium visual level....and divided that by 20....That is 40 years of Switch online service u could pay for.



You can easily get a system that'll play new games adequately for under 300 dollars. May have to set the settings on medium or low, but you can get something that does the job.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

Daisies said:


> You can easily get a system that'll play new games adequately for under 300 dollars. May have to set the settings on medium or low, but you can get something that does the job.


Good point, something like an AMD system with an APU is pretty cheap these days. And those are a great budget-friendly jumping-off point that offers a nice upgrade path.


----------



## Daisy (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Good point, something like an AMD system with an APU is pretty cheap these days. And those are a great budget-friendly jumping-off point that offers a nice upgrade path.



Hell, I have a secondary PC that has an i5 2400 and a GTX 1050Ti and it cost me about £200. Never had any problems with it. Medium settings, usually.


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

Daisies said:


> Hell, I have a secondary PC that has an i5 2400 and a GTX 1050Ti and it cost me about £200. Never had any problems with it. Medium settings, usually.


Dang, nice score. But yeah, that just goes to show that there are options.


----------



## Deleted member 412537 (Sep 14, 2018)

Thank god I wasn't impatient enough to sell my 3DS for extra cash. 
It still has its perks.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 14, 2018)

Daisies said:


> You can easily get a system that'll play new games adequately for under 300 dollars. May have to set the settings on medium or low, but you can get something that does the job.


Go one further.
While I can't predict too far into the future I am fairly confident in saying that you will really need a PC for the remainder of the Switch new releases lifetime. To that end the 300 for a nice refurb machine + cost of a switch + gearing it up gets you something nice.

Again though it is not the money but the principle. If you are going to charge for something which has been free and has not all of a sudden got more expensive then you had better be offering something of note for it.


----------



## Daisy (Sep 14, 2018)

Arecaidian Fox said:


> Dang, nice score. But yeah, that just goes to show that there are options.



Pretty easy to do, just grab an HP Elite 8200 (or better!) Office PC and throw the most powerful card that doesn't require supplemental power. Cheap but effective PC.


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> But they don't have any of the features of the Joy-cons at all. AFAIK, they're literally just two wireless NES controllers that charge via the joycon rails.


You might be right, but basically $30 for each wireless controller is fair, right?


----------



## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 14, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Go one further.
> While I can't predict too far into the future I am fairly confident in saying that you will really need a PC for the remainder of the Switch new releases lifetime. To that end the 300 for a nice refurb machine + cost of a switch + gearing it up gets you something nice.
> 
> Again though it is not the money but the principle. If you are going to charge for something which has been free and has not all of a sudden got more expensive then you had better be offering something of note for it.


Agreed, completely.


Daisies said:


> Pretty easy to do, just grab an HP Elite 8200 (or better!) Office PC and throw the most powerful card that doesn't require supplemental power. Cheap but effective PC.


Yeah, I have a buddy who pretty much exclusively budget games by repurposing old workstation units. Most of his stuff was free or absurdly cheap, which freed up money to sink into a nice 1440p ultrawide monitor. Spiffy stuff.


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> You might be right, but basically $30 for each wireless controller is fair, right?


How is that fair when i basically bought a snes mini and a nes mini for that price new with 2 controllers ?


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> Meanwhile a PC to play most of those free games good online costs well over 300 dollars.



Buy a GTX 1050 + a used HP Elite 8300 for ~$330 (today's price*) and you get a system that can play a lot of modern games on high/ultra.  In fact, that system is powerful enough to run cemu.  Also, a lot of Steam deal games or other bundles are really cheap compared to Nintendo offerings.  Add to that Steam offers free cloud backup and you can, you know, actually make your own backups too.

There's of course tons of other possible combinations.  You could buy all your games at thrift stores or ebay.  Plenty of people at garage sales sell ridiculously cheap laptops (sub $50) that are underpowered by modern standards but are as powerful as the Switch.  If you feel the need to buy new, you can find $200 laptops that aren't consider "gaming" worthy but really are if you set your target game year back 5 years (and use external storage, admittedly).

If all you care about is the latest games, though, you can always wait 5-10 years and I'm sure Nintendo will port it to their Switch successor as a "remake".



Daisies said:


> Pretty easy to do, just grab an HP Elite 8200 (or better!) Office PC and throw the most powerful card
> that doesn't require supplemental power. Cheap but effective PC.



Ninja'd.   I'd definitely say spring for the 8300.  The 8200's topped out at Intel Core i7-2600 (3.40 GHz, 8MB cache, 4 cores) but I think they're relatively rare and you're more likely to get an i5-2400.  With the 8300, it also varies but i5-3470 seem common and you can luck out and get an i5-3570 like I did.
https://ark.intel.com/products/68316/Intel-Core-i5-3470-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz
* I bought one for cheap for those components but also got an SSD and had an external HDD so the total is closer to ~$550 maybe.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 14, 2018)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Probably because no one on xbox or playstation used their consoles in the past to modify their save data for exploiting the system for homebrew?


This is simply not true.  Lets not forget the save data exploits to get access to both the PSP(with Lumines) and the Vita(can't remember the name)  so they can't use this excuse.  

I'm okay with the service,  I'm okay with the cloud data stuff too,  hell the only thing I'm not okay is the requirement of a subscription to buy the NES controllers.  may as well buy an 8bitdo (or two) and go with that.  you buy a year subscription and then have to buy the NES controllers, it turns out the same price as joycons...that can only be used for NES classics from what I'm gathering.


----------



## Pluupy (Sep 14, 2018)

Man...remember when Animal Crossing on gamecube CAME with free NES games? Those same free NES games now on switch paid online?


----------



## aerios169 (Sep 14, 2018)

Xbox made backups of your saves for free, also you need your phone to chat or talk with others,  I am very dissapointed.... nity can go to de hell in my opinion.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 14, 2018)

The bit about the save backups really irks me.  Not only do you have to aim for a paid subscription in order to even make save backups in the first place, but you also have no control over them once you lose your subscription.  Literally every other system allows you to back up saves locally for free, which leads me to believe that either Nintendo's head staff are impossibly out of touch, their IT staff are incompetent, or a combination of both.

Also, the trickling release schedule of older titles is a real punch to the gut, especially considering how we seem to be starting from scratch _again_, on top of Nintendo's recent crusade against ROM sites.


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> How is that fair when i basically bought a snes mini and a nes mini for that price new with 2 controllers ?


I was going to say that the controllers are wireless and compare them to the wired controllers price, but can't find a reliable comparison. I concede.


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> I was going to say that the controllers are wireless and compare them to the wired controllers price, but can't find a reliable comparison. I concede.


I would find 40 more a fair price so 20 a piece


----------



## Glyptofane (Sep 14, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> I was going to say that the controllers are wireless and compare them to the wired controllers price, but can't find a reliable comparison. I concede.


The extra controllers for NES Classic are $10. There may be some added value for wireless versions, but 3x the cost?


----------



## KiiWii (Sep 14, 2018)

Wow had to google the Yoshi game, never seen that one before 

The last two points suck the most...

Also: will the golf or any of those titles be motion controlled?!


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

Glyptofane said:


> The extra controllers for NES Classic are $10. There may be some added value for wireless versions, but 3x the cost?





kumikochan said:


> I would find 40 more a fair price so 20 a piece


Yeah, I was looking at wireless controllers in general, I have to agree.


----------



## Sonic Angel Knight (Sep 14, 2018)

mituzora said:


> This is simply not true. Lets not forget the save data exploits to get access to both the PSP(with Lumines) and the Vita(can't remember the name) so they can't use this excuse.


Let's not forget that I specifically said "CONSOLES" and those "PORTABLE" systems aren't their main focus right now nor does it lock features behind online subscription like the ps4 and xbox one does with their online multiplayer.

Why do you think the vita had the setup it has now? You saying that it wasn't at all cause psp had a save exploit system created by homebrew exploits? You can't do anything on vita without the content manager system on the pc or a ps3, and you can't even backup save data unless you back up the entire game with the content manager. Why would sony suddenly allow users on psp to put anything they want on a memory stick then turn around and need a exclusive memory card, content manager and more restrictions on vita?

This is why I said specifically their CONSOLES wasn't using save data to exploit for homebrew.


----------



## A Plus Ric (Sep 14, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Go one further.
> While I can't predict too far into the future I am fairly confident in saying that you will really need a PC for the remainder of the Switch new releases lifetime. To that end the 300 for a nice refurb machine + cost of a switch + gearing it up gets you something nice.
> 
> Again though it is not the money but the principle. If you are going to charge for something which has been free and has not all of a sudden got more expensive then you had better be offering something of note for it.




They are offering starting off NES games instead of having to buy them. So already you get all those NES games for the price yearly of what they were charging almost for 4 of those games to own.  Don't let playing roms via emulators cloud your judgement on what is "something of note" Xbox live used to offer playing with cheaters they couldn't catch for 60 a year and it was one of the most popular things ever.  Also don't have to worry about Windows or Apple or anyone else selling everything you say or do on the thing to every company around so you can see 50000 adverts on your Facebook or other pages about whatever you were talking with your wife that day or typing in a game. There is advantages to it all. Especially since its portable and 1/3rd the costs of all others. You think they are going to profit from 20 a year from people?  I highly doubt they will make any profits from their online service.  And If you think a 300 dollar refurbished machine is playing a lot of the new AAA games. Get out of here. Every new game has been requiring better specs and more and more out of ya. For a portable that plays well and has online 20 dollars a year is chump change.  Its literally nothing at all.


----------



## zoogie (Sep 14, 2018)

Glad this happened.

Now homebrew has another legitimate excuse


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Should update the article to reflect the fact it's stored for a period of time after cancellation.


----------



## zoogie (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Should update the article to reflect the fact it's stored for a period of time after cancellation.


How would an indeterminate length of time give you any piece of mind?
Is the grace period one day, or one year?

Not worth mentioning unless there's some sort of minimum grace period.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 14, 2018)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> Let's not forget that I specifically said "CONSOLES" and those "PORTABLE" systems aren't their main focus right now nor does it lock features behind online subscription like the ps4 and xbox one does with their online multiplayer.
> 
> Why do you think the vita had the setup it has now? You saying that it wasn't at all cause psp had a save exploit system created by homebrew exploits? You can't do anything on vita without the content manager system on the pc or a ps3, and you can't even backup save data unless you back up the entire game with the content manager. Why would sony suddenly allow users on psp to put anything they want on a memory stick then turn around and need a exclusive memory card, content manager and more restrictions on vita?
> 
> This is why I said specifically their CONSOLES wasn't using save data to exploit for homebrew.



While I see your point, since when are portables not consoles? Not to mention the Xbox also had a save data exploit seeing that you would prefer a home console example. (the OG xbox had a splinter cell save data exploit to allow unsigned code to run on it)

The Vita while yes, everything had to go through the content manager, there was still a way to back up your data locally without paying for cloud storage.  there is more to requiring content manager than just one exploit.  They wanted a complete lockdown so there wasn't any way of storing homebrew in general even if there was an available exploit.

Anyways without going out on a tangent, their cloud management stuff is ridiculous.  I hope we can agree on that one at least


----------



## TheMrIron2 (Sep 14, 2018)

This is really god damn disingenuous. It's a complete shambles especially compared to other services, holding standard features hostage behind a paywall and its only excuse is "it's cheap". Well, I guess you get what you pay for; a subpar service which is literally highway robbery at this stage.

What I like about Switch right now is that the online service is cheaper, but it's terrible - and the multiplatform games are even worse, being _more _expensive due to cartridges and being a markedly inferior experience. Why would anyone buy an unhacked Switch at this point?


----------



## Rabbid4240 (Sep 14, 2018)

Jesus christ just homebrew your switch and get an emulator. NES games are like the only reason you'll get it anyway. Cloud saves my ass.


----------



## ANTONIOPS (Sep 14, 2018)

Hey Nintendo, I'm banned so no online for my but I'm gonna pirate the shit outta you! Anyway, I was going to purchase the games I like BUT, you know, Nintendo won't allow me to update even my lovely purchased games, so.... there's no other way, I'm really sorry Nintendo.....


----------



## wurstpistole (Sep 14, 2018)

Rune said:


> To be fair, the NES controllers are supposed to be used with the NES games they're offering with their online subscription. Outside that there's no real use for them. And if you're interested in using them for emulators for some reason, you're better off buying 8bitdo's controllers, especially considering the price of the official ones.


Way ahead of ya. Sf30 pro and nes30 pro in my drawer


----------



## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 14, 2018)

Pluupy said:


> Man...remember when Animal Crossing on gamecube CAME with free NES games? Those same free NES games now on switch paid online?


Yeah, it is kind of annoying getting free games as a bonus for paying for an unrelated exclusive service for the console when you could be getting those same free games for paying for an unrelated exclusive game, but for an older console


----------



## DarkSeele (Sep 14, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> So according to you consumers can't complain about a price and call them out for that ? We just have to keep quiet and keep our mouth shut and just be verbal by paying it or not ?? Hmm, if it were just so simple.



Who said anything about consumers can't complain, keep quiet, etc. 
The guy I was responding to said, "Do you even care that it's 60 freakin' dollars for two NES-style controllers that you can only get with an active account?".
My point was you really don't have to buy them, It's as simple as that.



That said, they're definitely doing this to create another reason for people to buy the online service. Why would anyone buy these? I hate the NES controller as it is and tend to use my SF30 every time I play retro games.
Any Nintendo fanboy collecting everything from them is going to buy these controllers to use WITH the online service. They probably already own an NES classic too.
Collectors are always going to spend dumb $$$ on dumb shit, surprise surprise. 

They looked absolutely awful while attached the the   imo:
https://i.imgur.com/7nAOCMl.jpg


Famicom ver. of this from the Japanese Direct:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnAvbWpWsAIU2lf.jpg:large

My 8BitDo SF30 controller looks way better than those abominations. And it was $30 for full SNES layout, so you can use it for most 2D switch games and several 3D ones.




Sorry Nintendo but it looks like 8bitdo gets my business when it comes to retro controllers.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

zoogie said:


> How would an indeterminate length of time give you any piece of mind?
> Is the grace period one day, or one year?
> 
> Not worth mentioning unless there's some sort of minimum grace period.


We know there is, though. What that period is, is unknown. However, if you expect them to store it free of charge (even though I don't agree with us paying in the first place), you've got to be nuts.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ANTONIOPS said:


> Hey Nintendo, I'm banned so no online for my but I'm gonna pirate the shit outta you! Anyway, I was going to purchase the games I like BUT, you know, Nintendo won't allow me to update even my lovely purchased games, so.... there's no other way, I'm really sorry Nintendo.....



I don't think this is really the thread for you to be whining about this.


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

DarkSeele said:


> Who said anything about consumers can't complain, keep quiet, etc.
> The guy I was responding to said, "Do you even care that it's 60 freakin' dollars for two NES-style controllers that you can only get with an active account?".
> My point was you really don't have to buy them, It's as simple as that.
> 
> ...


Yeah def I agree with you on that but I must say that collecting well my personal opinion is becoming less and less as time passes on and games are also becoming less worth in price. Think the collecting bubble and retro bubble is almost gonna burst.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 14, 2018)

I mean, I'm glad that we finally know that we can actually download the NES games, but NES only is a huge turnoff IMO.


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Should update the article to reflect the fact it's stored for a period of time after cancellation.


That's not what Nintendo is saying though.



Supster131 said:


> *After my Nintendo Switch Online subscription expires, will my Save Data Cloud files and Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online save data be erased?*
> 
> Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership. Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online also uses the Save Data Cloud, so the same applies. However, if you keep the Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online save data saved locally on your Nintendo Switch console, then you can use it again if you purchase another membership.
> 
> Source: https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Nintendo-Switch/Nintendo-Switch-Online/FAQ-1374625.html


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Supster131 said:


> That's not what Nintendo is saying though.


https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22521/p/897



> We are unable to guarantee that cloud save data will be retained after an extended period of time from when your membership is ended. However, you can continue to use the save data that is saved to your system memory.



Confirms saves are at least stored for some time after you cancel. And even then, if you really wanted to keep your stuff backed up, why would you cancel membership anyway? Seems illogical to me.


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22521/p/897
> 
> 
> 
> Confirms saves are at least stored for some time after you cancel. And even then, if you really wanted to keep your stuff backed up, why would you cancel membership anyway? Seems illogical to me.


No it doesn't. It literally says '' we are unable to guarantee'


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22521/p/897
> 
> 
> 
> Confirms saves are at least stored for some time after you cancel. And even then, if you really wanted to keep your stuff backed up, why would you cancel membership anyway? Seems illogical to me.


Confirms nothing. That response is vague compared to Nintendo UK's answer.
"unable to guarantee that cloud save data will be retained after an extended period of time from when your membership is ended" vs "cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership"
Unless save data backups will work differently depending on your region, but that'd be weird.

Also, what if someone doesn't want to resub for a while? Can they not have that choice? RIP my backups, amiright?


----------



## Hanafuda (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Should update the article to reflect the fact it's stored for a period of time after cancellation.



It's probably come up somewhere in the thread already, but regardless of whether these cloud saves are retained or not, you still have the local save data too, yes? The online service feature of cloud saves is just backup, or is it actually that's where your only save goes? Cuz I'm kinda anti-cloud generally.

I know that question seems buffoonishly noober, but I'd like to know for sure because if this is just about having a _backup_ of your local save data, the outrage and hyperbole I've seen, from a few, over it being cut off when you cancel is just stupid.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> However, if you expect them to store it free of charge (even though I don't agree with us paying in the first place), you've got to be nuts


Xbox One saves are automatically backed up and restored from the cloud as needed, regardless of Xbox Live Gold subscription status.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> It's probably come up somewhere in the thread already, but regardless of whether these cloud saves are retained or not, you still have the local save data too, yes? The online service feature of cloud saves is just backup, or is it actually that's where your only save goes? Cuz I'm kinda anti-cloud generally.


No it's not fully cloud stored like Steam or Battle.Net.



Supster131 said:


> Confirms nothing. That response is vague compared to Nintendo UK's answer.
> "unable to guarantee that cloud save data will be retained after an extended period of time from when your membership is ended" vs "cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership"
> Unless save data backups will work differently depending on your region, but that'd be weird.
> 
> Also, what if someone doesn't want to resub for a while? Can they not have that choice? RIP my backups, amiright?



It confirms that they aren't immediately deleted and I'd trust the US site more than the UK one, which I've often found to have inaccurate answers (Just read the description for the Torna physical edition, it's a mess)

If they don't want to resub for a while, they shouldn't expect their save data to be stored. And what's more perplexing about that argument is that save data will be outdated anyway, so any additional progress will be lost if you don't resub. You're making a huge issue out of nothing.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Subtle Demise said:


> Xbox One saves are automatically backed up and restored from the cloud as needed, regardless of Xbox Live Gold subscription status.


I'm not saying what Nintendo is doing is consumer friendly, but it shouldn't be expected of a paid subscription to keep your stuff stored even after your status is no longer subscribed, it's like Netflix allowing you to keep your downloaded movies. 
I'm not too familiar with XBONE, are cloud saves paid?


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> No it's not fully cloud stored like Steam or Battle.Net.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


where does it confirm that ? It doesn't confirm whatsoever what you're saying. If it does confirm then please provide some information where it does state that because as long as it doesn't state that well then that means no confirmation.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> No it's not fully cloud stored like Steam or Battle.Net.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Regardless of Xbox Live Gold Status"  so no


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 14, 2018)

Ooh cloud saves, so reliable  Have fun when servers shut down and/or get DDOSed.


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> It confirms that they aren't immediately deleted and I'd trust the US site more than the UK one, which I've often found to have inaccurate answers (Just read the description for the Torna physical edition, it's a mess)


I guess we'll see next week.


TheDarkGreninja said:


> I'm not saying what Nintendo is doing is consumer friendly, but it shouldn't be expected of a paid subscription to keep your stuff stored even after your status is no longer subscribed, it's like Netflix allowing you to keep your downloaded movies.
> I'm not too familiar with XBONE, are cloud saves paid?


Cloud saves are 100% free on Xbox One (and games for Windows 10)

Anyways, then let's look at PS+ (as you only get local save backups for free, cloud backups are not free). If you decide not to resub, your backups are not lost.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



the_randomizer said:


> Ooh cloud saves, so reliable  Have fun when servers shut down and/or get DDOSed.


This is why we need local save backups, something other platforms offer.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Supster131 said:


> I guess we'll see next week.
> 
> Cloud saves are 100% free on Xbox One (and games for Windows 10)
> 
> ...



Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should be paid at all. 
Also, with PS+ it's a 6 month period before they're deleted, so not forever, and as said last time that data will be outdated anyway.
https://community.eu.playstation.co...o-PlayStation-Plus-Members-From/td-p/12558216


----------



## Yepi69 (Sep 14, 2018)

People complain about the shit Apple does but if you look closer, Nintendo is pretty much the same.
Apple does ''insert shitty feature here'' this, everyone complains and Apple keeps ignoring.
Nintendo does ''insert shitty feature here'' this, everyone complains and Nintendo keeps ignoring.


----------



## Sonic Angel Knight (Sep 14, 2018)

mituzora said:


> Anyways without going out on a tangent, their cloud management stuff is ridiculous. I hope we can agree on that one at least


I know it's ridiculous but my point was that perhaps their way of handling this was seen as a response to remove save modding as a possible homebrew is a potential reason for what they are doing. Not that it was a good excuse or a good idea. It wasn't about much else. Yes I would like to back up my save data without paying for it, yes it would be nice to keep the save data alive as long as possible cause there isn't anything worst than losing progress and having to start a long process of a game from square one no matter how much you enjoy the game and think it's worth playing again. 

Still I don't understand why a sudden break in the streak means losing save data. It's very daunting with such a thing. also that access to playing a bunch of nes classic games. Was buying them for $5 like we been doing for the last three systems not enough to play them, now we have to have sub to play them and then 7 day checkpoint for using it? This sounds way worst than Xbox one E3 announcement with their DRM policies. What's the chances of people connecting online for a system that is both console and portable, it's not a cellphone, internet is not easily accessible on the go.


----------



## Oschara (Sep 14, 2018)

what about 3rd party games? does that require a sub?


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should be paid at all.
> Also, with PS+ it's a 6 month period before they're deleted, so not forever, and as said last time that data will be outdated anyway.
> https://community.eu.playstation.co...o-PlayStation-Plus-Members-From/td-p/12558216


Yeah, I feel like if Nintendo offered a free alternative, this kind of stuff wouldn't matter.
Also, I'd like a more up-to-date source on that 6 month grace period for PS+ saves. I'm not saying it's wrong, but potentially outdated. I once went a bit over a year without PS+ (as I don't really play online much) and my saves were still intact when I resubbed. This was around 2015-2016 though.

Also, while you're right about the online saves being outdated, while it's very unlikely, shit can happen. Your console breaks or something. At least you'll have something to rely on rather than starting all over.


----------



## Tumoche (Sep 14, 2018)

I play competitive mk8. Now even worse i have to pay for a shitty p2p service instead of being free and also not a real server


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Supster131 said:


> Yeah, I feel like if Nintendo offered a free alternative, this kind of stuff wouldn't matter.
> Also, I'd like a more up-to-date source on that 6 month grace period for PS+ saves. I'm not saying it's wrong, but potentially outdated. I once went a bit over a year without PS+ (as I don't really play online much) and my saves were still intact when I resubbed. This was around 2015-2016 though.
> 
> Also, while you're right about the online saves being outdated, while it's very unlikely, shit can happen. Your console breaks or something. At least you'll have something to rely on rather than starting all over.



Couldn't find a much more recent source, I'll probably have to contact sony for a more up to date answer.
But yeah, I understand wanting to have at least something, but keeping subbed continuously isn't too difficult, (£20 a year is nothing in comparison to most of other subscription services)


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

TheDarkGreninja said:


> Couldn't find a much more recent source, I'll probably have to contact sony for a more up to date answer.
> But yeah, I understand wanting to have at least something, but keeping subbed continuously isn't too difficult, (£20 a year is nothing in comparison to most of other subscription services)


I found this link from Polygon, probably the closest thing we have for an answer: https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/PS-Plus-Information
Going by this plus my anecdote, it seems like it stays in the cloud forever.

I get that it's not expensive compared to the competition (which realistically you can get for $40. I never pay MSRP for PS+ or XBL), but life can happen. I talked about this with some friends earlier today. God forbid your credit card expires when it's about to renew or you just can't afford $20 when your sub is about to end due to some real life stuff.


----------



## godreborn (Sep 14, 2018)

I'm edging towards not supporting their online service.  way to give the finger to your fans, Nintendo.


----------



## V-Temp (Sep 14, 2018)

No service auto deletes data, these things happen in routine intervals. Like PokeBank it will have some grace window before data deletion and reallocation which hhappensin batches.

Probably weeks+ unless you get really unlucky and unsubscribe right at the trash window.


----------



## Treeko (Sep 14, 2018)

Worst online paid service confirmed, reasons-:

1. Worst paid multiplayer service, still utilises p2p connection in this day and age, you're literally paying to use your own internet, compared to other services that use dedicated servers for their games.

2. Classic free games we've all played 100 times already on previous nintendo consoles compared to competing paid services that offer triple AAA and exclusive titles for free.

3. Worst cloud save implementation, pay or you're shit out of luck if you missed out on your renewal date, no manual save backup aswell compared to the competition.

4. Only a few games will support clould saves, huge titles missing from cloud save support pokemon and splatoon 2.

5. Still using friend codes to add people to your friend list in this day and age, no voice or text chat on console.

6. You need to have a smartphone to have any kind of voice chat support, if you don't have one, that's one less feature you're getting out of the 20$ yearly subscription.

This is probably the most atrocious and malicious business decision nintendo has ever made as a company, and if you're supporting them on this venture then you're a problem to the gaming industry, one which is as big as microtransactions and dlc season passes.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 14, 2018)

Treeko said:


> Worst online paid service confirmed, reasons-:
> 
> 1. Worst paid multiplayer service, still utilises p2p connection in this day and age, you're literally paying to use your own internet, compared to other services that use dedicated servers for their games.
> 
> ...



I agree with all but 1... Nintendo aren't the only ones using P2P for multiplayer. Xbox does this as well. They're only recently moving toward dedicated servers. Unsure about Playstation.


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I agree with all but 1... Nintendo aren't the only ones using P2P for multiplayer. Xbox does this as well. They're only recently moving toward dedicated servers. Unsure about Playstation.


p2p isn't much of a problem in *most *games, but whatever algorithms Nintendo uses to match up players is absolute garbage.


----------



## godreborn (Sep 14, 2018)

I think the phoning home every 7 days may be the worst of the lot.  we've not all pirates, Nintendo, yet we're all treated as such.  if you didn't trust us with your hardware, you shouldn't have released the switch.


----------



## Treeko (Sep 14, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I agree with all but 1... Nintendo aren't the only ones using P2P for multiplayer. Xbox does this as well. They're only recently moving toward dedicated servers. Unsure about Playstation.


Halo uses dedicated servers on xbox I am pretty sure about that, on playstation there's GT sport using dedicated servers, both sony and Microsoft have modernised their online infrastructure, and pretty much all major triple AAA shooters and sports games are using dedicated servers on both consoles.


----------



## Zeldaplayer67 (Sep 14, 2018)

wurstpistole said:


> Nes controllers only purchaseable with an active subscription... Black Market on eBay, here I come! My console is banned anyway, couldn't give any shits about this if I wanted but damn, they know how to make this as complicated as possible.


I just cant grasp that. You cant buy a controller without buying the online. I just cant understand.


----------



## XDel (Sep 14, 2018)

So no NES controllers in the store then?


----------



## godreborn (Sep 14, 2018)

maybe the nes controllers stop functioning if you don't renew your subscription.


----------



## Captain_N (Sep 14, 2018)

The only reason i would buy the Nintendo switch online subscription is because of monster hunter Generations ultimate. It might not even use Nintendo's servers. I think capcom runs the monster hunter servers. The dlc is handled by capcom servers. The nes games dont interest me. I have many nes consoles and all the carts i could ever play. I have had all the roms and emulators years ago. I dont need nintendo's online nes service. The nes controllers are cool but not for $60. Most id pay is $30

The reason these old games get re-released is because they are popular and noobs keep buying them. All they had to do was keep their old nes consoles (for the older generation that is ) for the new gen, just use emulators. or buy a nes and a flash cart. You can just use a wii for emulation. Or gee i dont know a pc. any old pc will do. Only noobs dont know what roms and emulation is. Since the noobs dont go above and beyond what a company tells them is available they deserve to get ripped off by nintendo's greed. 

To all the hard core hackers and homebrew creators out there: This is the time for you to get back at nintendo. Create your own switch server software. Then release that shit. Once its released Nintendo cant stop it. Host that shit deep on the dark web.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 14, 2018)

godreborn said:


> maybe the nes controllers stop functioning if you don't renew your subscription.



I mean, kinda they do.  From what I'm gathering on this forum, is that the NES controllers will support the NES titles only


----------



## godreborn (Sep 14, 2018)

mituzora said:


> I mean, kinda they do.  From what I'm gathering on this forum, is that the NES controllers will support the NES titles only



are these the $60 joycons?  do they work with other games?


----------



## TheDarkGreninja (Sep 14, 2018)

Zeldaplayer67 said:


> I just cant grasp that. You cant buy a controller without buying the online. I just cant understand.


What annoys me is that it's legitimately their solution for Virtual Console.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 14, 2018)

godreborn said:


> are these the $60 joycons?  do they work with other games?


They are 60 bucks.  As if they work on other games than just the NES library, I have yet to confirm or deny this, but other members have posted that they only work with the NES titles


----------



## Closet Nerd (Sep 14, 2018)

Zeldaplayer67 said:


> I just cant grasp that. You cant buy a controller without buying the online. I just cant understand.



DRM Gamepads...


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I agree with all but 1... Nintendo aren't the only ones using P2P for multiplayer. Xbox does this as well. They're only recently moving toward dedicated servers. Unsure about Playstation.


To my knowing it was always xbox using dedicated servers seeing they showed their massive server building when the 360 launched as an advertisement and it being playstation that always used p2p and only this generation moving towards dedicated servers. Also the reason why xbox live always had the upper hand compared to Sony because they used dedicated servers. Even Halo on the xbox classic had dedicated servers


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> They are offering starting off NES games instead of having to buy them. So already you get all those NES games for the price yearly of what they were charging almost for 4 of those games to own. Don't let playing roms via emulators cloud your judgement on what is "something of note"



Literally every game on their list that I cared to own, I already own.  Real cartridge.  Real NES.  Owned for 18+ years.  And I repeat "owned", not some sort of yearly rental.



A Plus Ric said:


> Xbox live used to offer playing with cheaters they couldn't catch for 60 a year and it was one of the most popular things ever.



Which goes to show being popular doesn't translate to being good.  This Switch online thing may be very popular.



A Plus Ric said:


> Also don't have to worry about Windows or Apple or anyone else selling everything you say or do on the thing to every company around so you can see 50000 adverts on your Facebook or other pages about whatever you were talking with your wife that day or typing in a game.



MS doesn't share its data with Facebook, and I've heard no evidence that Apple (which you wouldn't be getting on a cheap PC) even collects data.  Meanwhile, what makes you think Nintendo won't be pushing ads on the Switch eventually?  Meanwhile, as paranoid as I am, I don't believe Microsoft is tracking stuff I'm typing in a third party game launched through Steam.  I can/do block as much telemetry data as I can on Windows (which is a non-starter on Switch), and I don't use Windows for much more than gaming.  I also don't use Facebook because, golly, it's nothing more than one massive privacy invading platform.  If I did use Facebook, I wouldn't care at all about the ads or MS/Apple/whoever tracking me.



A Plus Ric said:


> There is advantages to it all. Especially since its portable and 1/3rd the costs of all others. You think they are going to profit from 20 a year from people?  I highly doubt they will make any profits from their online service.



Sure it's portable, and that's definitely an advantage over a desktop.  It's not 1/3rd the cost, though.  And as far as making a profit?  Yea, I imagine they'll make nearly $20/year more than they would otherwise.  The additional costs this specific service costs (they've already got online servers for a game shop and sales) is incredibly negligible.



A Plus Ric said:


> And If you think a 300 dollar refurbished machine is playing a lot of the new AAA games. Get out of here. Every new game has been requiring better specs and more and more out of ya.



Compare an i5-3570, a GTX 1050, and 8GB of RAM to minimal and recommended specs on Steam for a couple new AAA games and get back to me.  I'm seriously curious if you can find many games that run terribly or not at all on my system.



A Plus Ric said:


> For a portable that plays well and has online 20 dollars a year is chump change. Its literally nothing at all.



You what's even better?  $0/year.  And a 2DS.  That's actually 1/3 the price (of a Switch).


----------



## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

I'm pretty sure most games are still peer to peer. Not that I care about dedicated servers. I would pick free over dedicated servers every time.


----------



## Deleted member 331788 (Sep 14, 2018)

Closet Nerd said:


> Also, was the NES classic a huge flop? Pretty sure it sold like hotcakes. Why then does nintendo shove these old nes games in our face like a Times Square hustler? We get it, you made some classics 30 years ago. Jeeze.



It only sold like hot cakes because of the limited supply at the time ...now you can't give them away, it's the same for the SNES Classic!




DarkSeele said:


> Guys, No one’s forcing you to buy the controller
> *If you think about it, what reason should there be to get them with a subscription? Seems like a nice way to prevents scalpers stockpiling them*.



Well Nintendo are?? ...Nintendo's marketing strategy has already been tried and tested, over and over!




godreborn said:


> are these the $60 joycons?  do they work with other games?



They better have HD rumble for that price!


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

In


KingVamp said:


> I'm pretty sure most games are still peer to peer. Not that I care about dedicated servers. I would pick free over dedicated servers every time.


Cod has dedicated servers, overwatch has dedicated servers, battlefield has dedicated servers, halo has dedicated servers, destiny has dedicated servers, the division has dedicated servers, every mmo mmorpg has dedicated servers. Basically saying almost every multiplayer game these days has dedicated servers


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## osaka35 (Sep 14, 2018)

The cloudsaves merely sync with the ones on your device, correct? The ones on your device aren't delete are they? Then the cloud service is less "your saves are now online" and more "your saves are backed up online in case your device dies", right? Doesn't really change the situation, but pretty sure you'd still have your local copy.




kumikochan said:


> In
> 
> Cod has dedicated servers, overwatch has dedicated servers, battlefield has dedicated servers, halo has dedicated servers, destiny has dedicated servers, the division has dedicated servers, every mmo mmorpg has dedicated servers. Basically saying almost all multiplayer games these days have dedicated servers


Yeah, but you still need xbox live for dedicated services not owned by microsoft. Elder scrolls, pretty sure, use bethesda servers. Can't play the game without xbox/ps+ though. Not sure how many games are like this, but it is annoying when they act as gate keepers. I remember when netflix was for gold only. They finally allowed you to use netflix without xbox gold, but I've been wary ever since.


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## Ericthegreat (Sep 14, 2018)

Chary said:


> View attachment 143234​
> We got a glimpse of some new information about Nintendo's Switch Online Service yesterday during the Direct, but most of what was shown there was already known. To help shed a little more light on just what a subscription entails, Nintendo put a FAQ up on their site. The details are as follows:
> 
> 
> ...


Mother fuckers, not even a few months? So if you card exp date changes your fucked....


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## kumikochan (Sep 14, 2018)

osaka35 said:


> The cloudsaves merely sync with the ones on your device, correct? The ones on your device aren't delete are they? Then the cloud service is less "your saves are now online" and more "your saves are backed up online in case your device dies", right? Doesn't really change the situation, but pretty sure you'd still have your local copy.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but you still need xbox live for dedicated services not owned by microsoft. Elder scrolls, pretty sure, use bethesda servers. Can't play the game without xbox/ps+ though. Not sure how many games are like this, but it is annoying when they act as gate keepers. I remember when netflix was for gold only. They finally allowed you to use netflix without xbox gold, but I've been wary ever since.


True that but ir's the same now with Nintendo but they only use p2p while Sony and Microsoft basically say "" subscribe to us and we promise all our first party titles will have dedicated servers " So that's the big difference. Thing is you also get newer games while nintendo only offers games that are over 30 years old. And be honest, nobody pays 60 a year but more like 35 40 a year through 3th party websites. And you also get real voice chat, party invites, message system and voice messages plus more apps to use and a real friend invite system instead of using friend codes like we went back in time 20 years


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## DinohScene (Sep 14, 2018)

Saved games get deleted once subscription ends?
Oh wow...


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## Justinde75 (Sep 14, 2018)

I guess you could just make sure your saves are backed up before you decide to cancel it/before it runs out.


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## Deleted member 331788 (Sep 14, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> For a portable that plays well and has online 20 dollars a year is chump change.  Its literally nothing at all.



Congrats ...so your buying everyone on here a subscription? ...since like $20 is nothing to you ...how about 1 member a week?? ...I don't want to push it, but if it's still nothing to you 2 members a week??

For a portable "nice" the switch should be like the 3DS online service ...free!

But it should come with the cost of the price of the game ...I pirate switch games and buy used games "yeah I go all out" - I like to support the stores who sell them instead of the companies who make them! ...because of crap like this!


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## the_randomizer (Sep 14, 2018)

Supster131 said:


> I guess we'll see next week.
> 
> Cloud saves are 100% free on Xbox One (and games for Windows 10)
> 
> ...



Exactly, cloud saves are nice, but they aren't without major flaws, people sure are quick to defend it.


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## osaka35 (Sep 14, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> True that but ir's the same now with Nintendo but they only use p2p while Sony and Microsoft basically say "" subscribe to us and we promise all our first party titles will have dedicated servers " So that's the big difference. Thing is you also get newer games while nintendo only offers games that are over 30 years old. And be honest, nobody pays 60 a year but more like 35 40 a year through 3th party websites. And you also get real voice chat, party invites, message system and voice messages plus more apps to use and a real friend invite system instead of using friend codes like we went back in time 20 years



I don't think you can count discounts  but yeah, even at 1/3rd of the price, it does seem really lack luster. I'll probably wait until they offer something meaningful. I don't care much about voice chat or party invites, but I know they're pretty popular with most folk. 

I suspect it'll do well as long as it "just works".


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## KingVamp (Sep 14, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Cod has dedicated servers, overwatch has dedicated servers, battlefield has dedicated servers, halo has dedicated servers, destiny has dedicated servers, the division has dedicated servers, every mmo mmorpg has dedicated servers. Basically saying almost every multiplayer game these days has dedicated servers


Not going verify those, because it was a stupid separation on my part. AFAIK, PC doesn't pay for dedicated servers either. (Unless they are a non-ftp mmo.)


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## limpbiz411 (Sep 14, 2018)

why does Nintendo have to be so cringe worthy when it comes to online infrastructure? They made my decision on hacking my switch really easy on me. Much more worth it to have a hacked switch then online when it comes to Nintendo. Friend codes still? and that stupid phone app? Nintendo has gotten straight greedy lately and don't care about us as a consumer except for our wallets.


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## DarkIrata (Sep 14, 2018)

huh ok. still gonna buy it. Still interesting concept


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 14, 2018)

iQue said:


> I like to support the stores who sell them instead of the companies who make them! ...because of crap like this!


????

Yeah, you're sure showing them


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## ferret7463 (Sep 14, 2018)

nope, i'll just keep my 3DS . Online services tend to suck due to the fact after about 5 years, they just quite support and you're out of luck.... Also it has become clear why Nintendo attacked the rom sites so hard recently.....


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## deinonychus71 (Sep 14, 2018)

For the first time I might actually vote with my wallet and not pay for this subscription.

Nintendo has amazing IPs, amazing devs, but their corporate should really be let go. They're -insanely- outdated in just about everything they do.

Really, how did Steam beat piracy on PC? By being MORE convenient than playing pirated games. All social features, integration, achievements and all.
Same for PSN/XBOX, if you pirate, you're actually missing out by not having online features.

This? This is basically that annoying video that you're forced to watch when you buy a movie and that says "Hey thank you for buying our product, but remember stealing is bad".
Jeez. Nintendo, you're never gonna beat piracy by forcing such inconvenience on your customers.


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## PedroKeitawa (Sep 14, 2018)

> Additionally, if you ever lapse in your subscription, you will lose all cloud data. "Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership."* If you cancel or let it expire, you'll lose all data saved on the cloud*.



Ok since im not so savi about PS4 and is amazing Plus (not joking i really like their online program)...how much time Sony give you before they remove your cloud save data from the server after your registration expire?

I hope that a software solution, not necessarly free (since i have no problem in buy a usb cable), for mod the console will come. Beocuse i know if i inser that paper clip in the wrong place my Switch is gone. Speaking of this rapidly the R4 solution is any good?

EDIT: Also regarding the list of NES games....no Baseball. Nintendo what the actual hell?!?


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## Supster131 (Sep 14, 2018)

PedroKeitawa said:


> Ok since im not so savi about PS4 and is amazing Plus (not joking i really like their online program)...how much time Sony give you before they remove your cloud save data from the server after your registration expire?


There's no real concrete answer. It apparently used to be 6 months back in the PS3 days, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I was unsubbed for over a year and my cloud saves were still there when I resubbed.
https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/PS-Plus-Information

I guess we'd need someone to sub to PS+, upload a save to the cloud, then stay unsubbed until if/when the save is deleted from the cloud.


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## PedroKeitawa (Sep 14, 2018)

Supster131 said:


> There's no real concrete answer. It apparently used to be 6 months back in the PS3 days, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I was unsubbed for over a year and my cloud saves were still there when I resubbed.
> https://support.us.playstation.com/articles/en_US/KC_Article/PS-Plus-Information
> 
> I guess we'd need someone to sub to PS+, upload a save to the cloud, then stay unsubbed until if/when the save is deleted from the cloud.



Wow. Well time to spedn 60€ for re apply to the PS+ then. Thank you Sony.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 14, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> Saved games get deleted once subscription ends?
> Oh wow...



Yeah, it's pretty shitty on their part, cloud saves be damned, it's better to back them up to an actual HDD or SD card.


----------



## LightyKD (Sep 15, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Don't give Nintendo a cent, and put those $20 dollars into supporting something like Yuzu or whatever Switch emulator is in development.
> I can guarantee you 100% that the online service the emulator will have will be an infinite amount of times better than what Nintendo's shit is.



If we could a better setup for Wiimfi that includes a miiverse style site and proper connectivity with the many Nintendo emulators, I would toss money at that. Been thinking a lot about that idea.


----------



## Euphonique (Sep 15, 2018)

As I said in another Thread: The price is fair but thats not the problem. What people upset is the poor service we‘ll get. Come on: The miiverse was even better than that! We don‘t have any community functions, no chat, no voip on the console, no webbrowser, no other apps like Netflix, Youtube.. etc.
I wonder WHY I should pay for it.. For a handful games with online play?
And yes: The savegame backup in the cloud should be free, too.
Nintendo should do their homework and deliver a good online service BEFORE asking for money.
It‘s a pity.. It could be so much better than that. If I heard about the services we‘ll get I thought: Really?! Thats it?!


----------



## kumikochan (Sep 15, 2018)

Euphonique said:


> As I said in another Thread: The price is fair but thats not the problem. What people upset is the poor service we‘ll get. Come on: The miiverse was even better than that! We don‘t have any community functions, no chat, no voip on the console, no webbrowser, no other apps like Netflix, Youtube.. etc.
> I wonder WHY I should pay for it.. For a handful games with online play?
> And yes: The savegame backup in the cloud should be free, too.
> Nintendo should do their homework and deliver a good online service BEFORE asking for money.
> It‘s a pity.. It could be so much better than that. If I heard about the services we‘ll get I thought: Really?! Thats it?!


Well that's Nintendo. They usally rely on their name, branding and nostalgia and Fanboys to pull them through all the bullshit and make them money. Sadly they always succeed so they keep doing crap like this. It's like they always get a free pass for no reason at all while others have to defend themselves for the smallest things. Nintendo is like eminem, you just can't bash them


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 15, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Well that's Nintendo. They usally rely on their name, branding and nostalgia and Fanboys to pull them through all the bullshit and make them money. Sadly they always succeed so they keep doing crap like this. It's like they always get a free pass for no reason at all while others have to defend themselves for the smallest things. Nintendo is like eminem, you just can't bash them


This is exactly what I was thinking. Why does Nintendo get a free pass? Before the Xbox One launch, Microsoft was announcing some very anti-consumer stuff. Did people let them get away with it? Hell no. They fought back and spoke with their wallets. Look at Microsoft now. I'd say they are currently the most consumer-friendly of the three. Do people not want the same with Nintendo?


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## Euphonique (Sep 15, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Well that's Nintendo. They usally rely on their name, branding and nostalgia and Fanboys to pull them through all the bullshit and make them money. Sadly they always succeed so they keep doing crap like this. It's like they always get a free pass for no reason at all while others have to defend themselves for the smallest things. Nintendo is like eminem, you just can't bash them



I agree. Don‘t get me wrong: I like Nintendo for the games they make.. But online services are not their strength. Sometimes I think a community member whould do better decisions in making such a service as the nintendo managers. It seems they don‘t even hear what their fans want or the simply ignore them.


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## kumikochan (Sep 15, 2018)

Supster131 said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking. Why does Nintendo get a free pass? Before the Xbox One launch, Microsoft was announcing some very anti-consumer stuff. Did people let them get away with it? Hell no. They fought back and spoke with their wallets. Look at Microsoft now. I'd say they are currently the most consumer-friendly of the three. Do people not want the same with Nintendo?


It's because of all those American youtubers that blew Nintendo up because they saved the video game crash in the usa. Most reviewers and so forth are American so because of their nostalgia we have to deal with all of this bullshit and crap and because of them everybody gives them a free pass because god you dare say something different than those youtubers, you'll get struck down by an angry army of followers


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## Tweaker_Modding (Sep 15, 2018)

Wow nintendo you really fucked your online up


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 15, 2018)

deinonychus71 said:


> For the first time I might actually vote with my wallet and not pay for this subscription.
> 
> Nintendo has amazing IPs, amazing devs, but their corporate should really be let go. They're -insanely- outdated in just about everything they do.
> 
> ...


This, THIS right here. You're 100% right. You get and keep customers by having a friendly and easy experience, that encourages people to return to your platform. Paywalling a damned controller and archaic online offerings that feel right out of the early 2000's is NOT the way to do that. Piracy takes a bit out of revenue, yes, but they'd more than make up for it with new customers if these offerings were anything but the meager and draconian middle finger informed shoppers can see it all as.


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## Slim45 (Sep 15, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Don't give Nintendo a cent, and put those $20 dollars into supporting something like Yuzu or whatever Switch emulator is in development.
> I can guarantee you 100% that the online service the emulator will have will be an infinite amount of times better than what Nintendo's shit is.


or cfw for "legal" backups


----------



## dmace81 (Sep 15, 2018)

Wow im so glad Wii U was my last nintendo console im ever buying new.  Maybe once switch is long gone I will get one but not anything new to support this crap.  Ill wait till they are used and on ebay cheap when this online bullshit is all gone.  Im surprised they didn't make it so you couldn't play any games without having there service which would make the console worthless once there online service is gone.


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## Euphonique (Sep 15, 2018)

dmace81 said:


> Wow im so glad Wii U was my last nintendo console im ever buying new.  Maybe once switch is long gone I will get one but not anything new to support this crap.  Ill wait till they are used and on ebay cheap when this online bullshit is all gone.  Im surprised they didn't make it so you couldn't play any games without having there service which would make the console worthless once there online service is gone.


The switch itself isn‘t bad at all. I was very sceptic first but it‘s a really fun console with some great games so far.


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## codezer0 (Sep 15, 2018)

Marco_Buns said:


> _Why are you doing this Nintendo?_


Same reason they put out Other M and Skyward Sword. Because they knew dumb turds would buy anything with a given brand with indiscriminate force. And defend it like a good little fanboy. Just like that one steam group that was protesting the horrible state of the PC port of MW2 and then a screencap not two hours after launch showed the majority of its members all playing - you guessed it - Modern Warfare 2.

They already proved they can't handle criticism themselves, considering that they basically shut down the review system rather than deal with all the one-star reviews for their crap. Or how even a game that was around since launch digitally is _STILL_ selling at launch MSRP on their eShop.

This kind of practice is pretty much why I make a point of avoiding digital purchases for consoles... and why hopefully the EU will finally decide enough is enough, and force the console makers to allow third party storefronts to exist and serve their users. Then, and only then, will we see some real competition on quality and price, on the digital side of things.


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## goldensun87 (Sep 15, 2018)

And this is why Notendo nuked all ROM sites.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 15, 2018)

goldensun87 said:


> And this is why Notendo nuked all ROM sites.



They're just like that spoiled turd who hogs all the toys in preschool not because he or she wants to, but just for the sake of doing it out of nothing but spite. This makes me even more glad to have downloaded several GB of ROM sets.


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## TheMCNerd2017 (Sep 15, 2018)

So as soon as the subscription runs out, your backed up saves in the cloud get deleted? Very stupid in my eyes, it's not hard to give the user the chance to download their saves if their subscription runs out.


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## DJPlace (Sep 15, 2018)

it's cheap online price no wonder nintendo is not letting keep your online saves.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 15, 2018)

TheMCNerd2017 said:


> So as soon as the subscription runs out, your backed up saves in the cloud get deleted? Very stupid in my eyes, it's not hard to give the user the chance to download their saves if their subscription runs out.



You would think so, but stupid is is stupid does.


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## Kourin (Sep 15, 2018)

The NES selection is fucking terrible and slowly dripping more is awful.
They've killed piracy sites
They've killed Virtual Console
The *least *they could do is offer a large selection of NES, SNES, GB(C) and GBA games. They have emulators that run all of those perfectly and it's apparent that they don't want us buying them or pirating them in any other way. 

Why do they think NES games are some exciting selling point in the year 2018? Especially after they just relased the NES and SNES Classics.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 15, 2018)

Side note, why is it always NES games? I understand that they are trying to appeal to nostalgia, but stop it. It's always the same games and always the same features. Offer more games already!


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## DarkCoffe64 (Sep 15, 2018)

If there's one thing Nintendo always fails with, it's online crap :v
This has to be the worst online service there is (I dunno, I live under an effing rock)
And besides, how many online games there are for the switch? Bet you can count them on one hand.

Bah, imo, the switch is just a dumping ground of ports of old games.

Edit: Oh yes, and fuck you again Nintendo for your shit service of killing roms site, thank you for making it much harder to
find games that are nowadays almost impossible to find.
You'll never get a single cent from me anymore Ninty. I hope you go under as soon as possible.
Imo, the best Nintendo could happen to them is that they end up as Sega: a third party game developer.
At least then they would mostly focus on making games, I hope.


----------



## digipimp75 (Sep 15, 2018)

Is anybody really that surprised?  Nintendo of Japan is just a bunch of stubborn, clueless old men who are so far detached from reality.  The only thing they understand is money, so don't pay for this shit.


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## nWo (Sep 15, 2018)

All this paying for online is crazy. I remember back then when Xbox launched it, I thought it was going to be a temporal shit. But damn, people payed for it and they are happy as of today!!. It was only a matter of time before N did the same thing. But since the beginning of paying online, I think that's fucked up. You buy a console, you pay your internet, and then, you need to pay to play online? Crazy shit still to this day.


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## bowser (Sep 15, 2018)

So if your subscription expires they'll delete your saves.

I bet if you don't check in once every 7 days "to verify your account" they will delete your NES games too.


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## MushGuy (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm conflicted now. Will it be worth it for the upcoming Gen 8 Pokémon game for, you know, trading and battling? What about legit users who use homebrew for other things? My Switch is still sitting at 3.0.0., so I don't know what to do. If someone decides to make an alternate online server, I might be interested.


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## Taffy (Sep 15, 2018)

Hey hey hey who else wants to boycott Nintendo



ShadowOne333 said:


> Iffy much?
> Really people, if I were you I would not give a single cent to Nintendo.
> The service itself is atrocious and the catalogue of games available from older consoles is a fucking joke.
> 
> ...





Chary said:


> Nintendo's online really seems like a sham.
> 
> Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.





ShadowOne333 said:


> Don't give Nintendo a cent, and put those $20 dollars into supporting something like Yuzu or whatever Switch emulator is in development.
> I can guarantee you 100% that the online service the emulator will have will be an infinite amount of times better than what Nintendo's shit is.





Sinon said:


> Nintendo was doing so well, but now they are just shooting themselves in the foot
> 
> Don't get 'Switch online' people





Arecaidian Fox said:


> You know what else lets you back up your saves and play NES on your Switch? Homebrew!





x65943 said:


> Paid online is one of the main reasons consoles need to die



These people seem to agree

sorry for the mass-quote


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## Paulsar99 (Sep 15, 2018)

Wow this is like treating your save files like hostages and you either pay the ransom or see your save files gone.


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## Delerious (Sep 15, 2018)

I can't help but wonder how many people there are here who aren't yet banned and are still going to pay for the service and act like they aren't going to?


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## osaka35 (Sep 15, 2018)

Unleanone999 said:


> Wow this is like treating your save files like hostages and you either pay the ransom or see your save files gone.


I thiiiiink your saves should still be local. They're just backed up online as well. This is a redudancy service, from the wording, not a cloud service.


----------



## Jayro (Sep 15, 2018)

Hopefully hackers can find a way to inject ROMs into the VC titles and distribute them as installable NSP titles, or at the very least make a tool so we can do it ourselves.


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## ninjistix (Sep 15, 2018)

*"A Nintendo Account is required to access online services. Online play will be free until the Nintendo Switch Online membership launches on September 18, 2018. Not available in all countries. For the latest list of countries, please visit Customer Support."*

so that means move to a country not supported to continue having free online access? (until they decide to milk that market)


----------



## Naster (Sep 15, 2018)

Not gonna buy it. Airplane mode on.


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## Jonna (Sep 15, 2018)

Chary said:


> Those two wireless NES controllers _are only purchasable if you have a current paid Nintendo Switch Online sub_.


Purchasable?


So does this mean those controllers can only be sold by Nintendo themselves? Because I can tell you, the retailer I'm at, and several other electronic retailers, will not go through some rigorous process of identifying and verifying that some one _has a Nintendo Switch Online subscription_. ESRB ratings, yes, that is a standard for all games and is the same check as anything else for underage individuals. But to have to find out if the person has the subscription, and prove it, and...

yeah, no one is going to expect their staff to go the extra mile for Nintendo's weird discrepancy here - so I can only conclude it'll be on their online store or something.



iQue said:


> I like to support the stores who sell them instead of the companies who make them! ...because of crap like this!


Except buying the products from a store instead of directly from the company doesn't make a difference.

The store buys the product from Nintendo to put on their shelves. If you buy the product, even from the store, the inventory will go down and the store will see it needs to be replenished, ergo buying more of the product from Nintendo. You are essentially contributing to Nintendo getting their money whether you get it in the store or from the company or digitally.

If you want to not support the concept/product, the best thing to do is _not buy it at all_.


----------



## zacchi4k (Sep 15, 2018)

Time to enjoy online multiplayer on my 3DS more than ever!
... although knowing Nintendo that'll probably get shut down in a few years


----------



## bluhacks (Sep 15, 2018)

What the actual fuck? You'd thought Nintendo would do better, but no just make some crappy cloud save system that deletes your saves if you don't verify and those NES titles everyone and their mother played a thousand times instead of SNES, GB, GBC, N64, and other surperior Nintendo consoles that would made the online service way better. The worst offender is the NES controllers which can only be brought from having the online service, and I'm betting that it's only compatible with the NES titles anyway. Oh, and who can forget needing a *fucking smartphone app to communicate with friends and still having to use friend codes since the Wii. *

Like many other people I'm convinced to hack a Switch when I finally get my hands on one. Homebrew stuff most of the time are better than the official things anyways.


----------



## B.B.Link (Sep 15, 2018)

Y'all peoples trippin. Since when do _*anybody*_ give a fuck about cloud saving all of a sudden? Is your Switch THAT fragile that your saves are that exposed to danger? Bullshit. Once again y'all always gotta find some reason to justify pirating and hacking the Switch.


----------



## WhiteMaze (Sep 15, 2018)

x65943 said:


> Paid online is one of the main reasons consoles need to die



I am totally fine with paid online, as long as it is a quality service, with real world offers and better than the competition.

As it stands *right now*, it doesn't look like it.


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## radicalwookie (Sep 15, 2018)

The price on those controllers is absurd.


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## eworm (Sep 15, 2018)

*Why is everyone acting like the cloud saves vanishing would impact anyone in any way?* It's not like they allow for additional saved games that you can switch between and it's not like the saves disappear from the console upon being uploaded. It is not a hostage situation. Unless you wreck your Switch and then somehow forget to pay, you ain't losing jack. 

And *why is everyone acting as if Nintendo invented at this very moment the idea of paying for online play?* This has been a standard for consoles for a while now. Yes, it's an unfortunate and stupid standard, but Nintendo is the last company that could be faulted for it.

*And why do people complain in one breath about how stupid it is to release the old NES games again and about the price of the optional NES controllers?* The latter are for the biggest NES fans out there, an optional gadget for people who love the nostalgia these games bring. If you're rolling your eyes as a reaction to these games being given attention again, chances are you're not one of these people and the controllers are not for you. Just don't buy them, what's the big deal?

Yes, it's dumb to charge for online play. But that's the unfortunate direction console gaming has gone and Nintendo at least tries to lessen the blow by giving us exclusive content. No, it's nothing mind-blowing (yet?), but I can appreciate the attempts. I never played any NES game and while I'm not very interested in any of them, I might give some a shot, especially classics like Mario or Zelda. I'm also kinda expecting/hoping the Switch's version of Pokémon Bank will become a part of this paid subscription rather than requiring a separate fee, which would absolutely make it worth it for me.


----------



## BullyWiiPlaza (Sep 15, 2018)

This is so pitiful in many, many ways. About everything has been said. Just look at their dislikes.


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## Zumoly (Sep 15, 2018)

Late to the party but is this some kind of joke?
And I thought Nintendo was smart...
People paying for the online sub are legit!!!
So why annoy them like this?


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## anhminh (Sep 15, 2018)

Man, talk about clickbait title. 

The offical annoucement only said: "if your subscription lapses, we can’t guarantee your data will be saved for an extended period of time" so it not like they will down right delete all your save the moment the subcribse end.


----------



## godreborn (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm not too sure if I'll pay for this online service.  it's not like I'd use it much.  on top of that, there seem to be a lot of caveats that go with it.


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## goldensun87 (Sep 15, 2018)

DarkCoffe64 said:


> Imo, the best Nintendo could happen to them is that they end up as Sega: a third party game developer.


This should have happened to Ninty by now.  But the damn fanbois and fangirls keep the shitty console alive.  Nintendo IPs need to be on PC already, and console players can have the games on XBox/Playstation.


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## Wrathcaster (Sep 15, 2018)

ffs, Man I love Nintendo and even tho I usually pirate all their shit, I still support them but not this......there is no way I will even attempt to support this shitty service, my love for Nintendo is slowly dwindling and this crap certainly doesn't help.  Get a grip Nintendo!!


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## FAST6191 (Sep 15, 2018)

Why are people saying they took down all the ROM sites?
They took down one or two, scared another and that is about it. Such things are par for the course.


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## Justeego (Sep 15, 2018)

Pokébank doesn't delete your pokémon, but if you change console not doing the system transfer you lose all, I think that linking NNID to users will prevent this shit happening


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## mightymuffy (Sep 15, 2018)

eworm said:


> *Why is everyone acting like the cloud saves vanishing would impact anyone in any way?* It's not like they allow for additional saved games that you can switch between and it's not like the saves disappear from the console upon being uploaded. It is not a hostage situation. Unless you wreck your Switch and then somehow forget to pay, you ain't losing jack.
> 
> And *why is everyone acting as if Nintendo invented at this very moment the idea of paying for online play?* This has been a standard for consoles for a while now. Yes, it's an unfortunate and stupid standard, but Nintendo is the last company that could be faulted for it.
> 
> *And why do people complain in one breath about how stupid it is to release the old NES games again and about the price of the optional NES controllers?* The latter are for the biggest NES fans out there, an optional gadget for people who love the nostalgia these games bring. If you're rolling your eyes as a reaction to these games being given attention again, chances are you're not one of these people and the controllers are not for you. Just don't buy them, what's the big deal?



First - Sony allows 6 months after your sub ends, and since it's not a part of Gold, it's forever on Xbox. Your saves go with your account, and that could mean a weekend away at your mates on their console, what's your problem here - instant delete is a dick move by Nintendo, end of story.

Second - Nintendo's online stinks: compared to what Gold has always been, and what Plus has been since they started charging it's a shambles, almost hilariously bad.. certainly not worth paying for, whereas Plus and Gold are more of an evil necessity: you still begrudge paying for them, but at least you know you're getting a good service for your money. 

Third - How much is the rrp of the NES mini? I feel I need say no more... (and I don't see most complaining about the NES releases anyway..)


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## wiewiec (Sep 15, 2018)

Shit... I knew that this fuckers wanna delete saves... Even if it is 20$ it isn't worth it... Cloud saves just be free or possible to have it on media storage same as other have. Also i do not give shit about old NES games that I already have. Nice try Nintendo but you fucken miss.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 15, 2018)

How can anyone blindly defend them now?


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## godreborn (Sep 15, 2018)

this is like being talked into taking your friend's ugly sister to a dance.  you don't wanna do it, but I will if you pay me.  Nintendo should be paying me the $20.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 15, 2018)

and now i don't feel guilty of being banned or Pirating their shit wtg nintendo you lost a lot of sales and a whole lot of lost sales because of that dick move


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## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

eworm said:


> *Why is everyone acting like the cloud saves vanishing would impact anyone in any way?* It's not like they allow for additional saved games that you can switch between and it's not like the saves disappear from the console upon being uploaded. It is not a hostage situation. Unless you wreck your Switch and then somehow forget to pay, you ain't losing jack.
> 
> And *why is everyone acting as if Nintendo invented at this very moment the idea of paying for online play?* This has been a standard for consoles for a while now. Yes, it's an unfortunate and stupid standard, but Nintendo is the last company that could be faulted for it.
> 
> ...


Their online service is shit as hell. This is something that can't be defended or they will never get their shit together to work on a current gen online infrastructure.

Cant you see that even the dreamcast, a console from 1998 had better online features than the switch? THAT'S FUCKING SAD AS HELL.

How the hell can there be people defwnding this crap?


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## Deleted User (Sep 15, 2018)

While the complaints here are valid, I simply cannot get behind *any* of them. I just can't justify in my mind boycotting a service that I would need to pay for to play with my friends, or even people online, because it is going to cost me a grand total of near $1.67 (before taxes) a month. I just don't see how that is something worth the time to complain about. Sure, it is kind of awful that we had the service for free for a year and a half and now we half to pay for it, but does it really matter that much, as somebody earlier said (I don't remember who) it is literally pocket change if you pay in bulk. Just go a day without a coffee and you'll be able to pay for it that month.

Now, for the cloud saves, they should change it to be dependent on the amount of time you had the service (i.e. a year grants you a month afterward to download your saves). Otherwise, people would pay $4 for one month to get cloud saves and then they wouldn't ever have to pay again.

NOTE: I am not saying that Nintendo's service is any good. It certainly isn't, and not worth paying for, but I can't defend those saying that paying $1.67 a month for something is disturbing them. Hell, most people lose $1.67 in a month.


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## Essasetic (Sep 15, 2018)

Guys I know what happened to Luigi's saves.

Luigi cancelled his Nintendo online subscription so his save data got thwomped.

It all makes sense now


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## geodeath (Sep 15, 2018)

B.B.Link said:


> Y'all peoples trippin. Since when do _*anybody*_ give a fuck about cloud saving all of a sudden? Is your Switch THAT fragile that your saves are that exposed to danger? Bullshit. Once again y'all always gotta find some reason to justify pirating and hacking the Switch.



Well, I personally care as with an xbox account, not even a gold, all my saves are online. When I bought the x, all I had to do is login to the console and boom all my saves where there no subscription needed. If you want to transfer your saves on the switch it is impossible, and with the added worry of dropping it, losing or having it stolen, it means bye bye to all your saves. Was there a free alternative such as USB or sd card backup I would treat cloud saves as a luxury but as of now, it's the only way to get your hands on your saves other than hacking it.

Add to that, that when you send your console for ANY repair, even bend gate or joycons disconnecting, your console gets wiped. So yeah. There is a point about them.


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## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

blujay said:


> While the complaints here are valid, I simply cannot get behind *any* of them. I just can't justify in my mind boycotting a service that I would need to pay for to play with my friends, or even people online, because it is going to cost me a grand total of near $1.67 (before taxes) a month. I just don't see how that is something worth the time to complain about. Sure, it is kind of awful that we had the service for free for a year and a half and now we half to pay for it, but does it really matter that much, as somebody earlier said (I don't remember who) it is literally pocket change if you pay in bulk. Just go a day without a coffee and you'll be able to pay for it that month.
> 
> Now, for the cloud saves, they should change it to be dependent on the amount of time you had the service (i.e. a year grants you a month afterward to download your saves). Otherwise, people would pay $4 for one month to get cloud saves and then they wouldn't ever have to pay again.
> 
> NOTE: I am not saying that Nintendo's service is any good. It certainly isn't, and not worth paying for, but I can't defend those saying that paying $1.67 a month for something is disturbing them. Hell, most people lose $1.67 in a month.


That's not the point. If you are going to charge someone for a service, even if you charge 50 cents for it, you have to know that people expect something that justifies what they are paying for.

Nintendo's online multiplayer games were perfectly fine being free, but if they are going to charge you for what is the exact same online infrastructure, then there is no justification for that.


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## Deleted member 129634 (Sep 15, 2018)

You just get what you pay for then, a pretty poor and boring service for 20 bucks a year (cheap considering the competition prices).


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## PedroKeitawa (Sep 15, 2018)

ninjistix said:


> *"A Nintendo Account is required to access online services. Online play will be free until the Nintendo Switch Online membership launches on September 18, 2018. Not available in all countries. For the latest list of countries, please visit Customer Support."*
> 
> so that means move to a country not supported to continue having free online access? (until they decide to milk that market)



On this topic...what if my two user name i create have two different NNID? My major one is connect to a Euorpean accoun and the second is connect to a Japanese NNID. So what happen, only one can stay? Or i will be able to jump around if i have a NNID from Japan connect to the second user?


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## Spunky247 (Sep 15, 2018)

Come on Nintendo. This is really bullshit!
I will never ever pay for your online Service! 
What Nintendo offers sounds really poor to me :-(


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## eworm (Sep 15, 2018)

Okay, somebody needs to actually provide me with something to back up the "Nintendo's online is shit" claim. I've been playing Nintendo games online for quite a while now and I haven't encountered so much as a lag. It's hard for me to believe I'm just the luckiest player on planet Earth.


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## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

eworm said:


> Okay, somebody needs to actually provide me with something to back up the "Nintendo's online is shit" claim. I've been playing Nintendo games online for quite a while now and I haven't encountered so much as a lag. It's hard for me to believe I'm just the luckiest player on planet Earth.


Playing since the ds/wii days. Their p2p system is awful as hell and relies on the player connection. Brawl was a laggy mess, specially if you were outside of usa. Sm4sh still is a laggy mess. Mario kart wii played kind of fine, but the items awful hit detection and players teletransportation is still seen this day on mario kart 8. Mario sports mix was laggy as hell. Mario tennis open/ultra smash/aces are laggy as hell...


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## radicalwookie (Sep 15, 2018)

This is the most retarded thing Ive heard.
I really hope people dont buy their service and have them rethink what they are doing .


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## eyeliner (Sep 15, 2018)

Are the cloud saves mandatory? I mean, games with cloud saves only save in the cloud, or can we choose where to save?
The service still doesn't interest me one bit, and find the NES arcade a bit of a letdown. Heck, why not SNES games, and the same old NES games that we are tired of seeing being released in every Nintendo system? I was hoping they would present a surprise in the form of a SNES a month, or something.

Oh, well...


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## Deleted User (Sep 15, 2018)

And this is why I don't feel bad about pirating their games


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## MadMageKefka (Sep 15, 2018)

Why does everyone care about the cloud saves being deleted if your sub ends? The only way this would be a problem is if you're seriously too broke to afford $20 *AND* your Switch just happens to break while you're couch diving for your YEARLY internet fee. Besides, it's not like them being deleted deletes them off your console. Even deleting the game doesn't do that.



the_randomizer said:


> How can anyone blindly defend them now?





DeslotlCL said:


> Their online service is shit as hell. This is something that can't be defended or they will never get their shit together to work on a current gen online infrastructure.
> 
> Cant you see that even the dreamcast, a console from 1998 had better online features than the switch? THAT'S FUCKING SAD AS HELL.
> 
> How the hell can there be people defwnding this crap?



Because some of us realize that bandwidth doesn't grow on trees, and that with Nintendo doing what its fans asked for by adding TONS of 3rd party games to the eShop, some of those *3rd party games that Nintendo didn't make* use their online service to connect. Asking $20 for the ENTIRE YEAR really isn't unfair at all, and honestly anyone complaining CLEARLY doesn't have a job, or is EXTREMELY petty with their money.


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## AbyssalMonkey (Sep 15, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> That's not the point. If you are going to charge someone for a service, even if you charge 50 cents for it, you have to know that people expect something that justifies what they are paying for.
> 
> Nintendo's online multiplayer games were perfectly fine being free, but if they are going to charge you for what is the exact same online infrastructure, then there is no justification for that.


I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves.  It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.

I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free.  You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers.  To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too:  You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent.  It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run.  As time has gone on, this has changed.  More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased.  You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.

You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong.  You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such.  The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.


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## ut2k4master (Sep 15, 2018)

eyeliner said:


> Are the cloud saves mandatory? I mean, games with cloud saves only save in the cloud, or can we choose where to save?


they are saved locally as well as online


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## MadMageKefka (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves.  It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.
> 
> I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free.  You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers.  To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too:  You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent.  It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run.  As time has gone on, this has changed.  More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased.  You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.
> 
> You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong.  You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such.  The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.


I agree %100 with the 2nd part of what you said. These crybaby, broke-ass kids are annoying. "I deserve free stuff, wahhhh." They just clearly don't understand how bandwidth works, because I'm betting most of them have never paid a phone or internet bill before.

Read the first part of my above comment though. I just don't really see the huge issue with the save file thing. Am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, it could be better.... I just don't see why everyone is so upset.


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## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves.  It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.
> 
> I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free.  You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers.  To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too:  You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent.  It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run.  As time has gone on, this has changed.  More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased.  You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.
> 
> You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong.  You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such.  The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.


What servers are you talking about? If nintendo were actually using servers and not relying on shitty p2p crap we wouldnt be complaining about it (:


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## Supster131 (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves.  It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.
> 
> I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free.  You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers.  To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too:  You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent.  It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run.  As time has gone on, this has changed.  More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased.  You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.
> 
> You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong.  You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such.  The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.





DeslotlCL said:


> What servers are you talking about? If nintendo were actually using servers and not relying on shitty p2p crap we wouldnt be complaining about it (:


That and his claim on third party games using Nintendo's servers are just wrong. Let's look at a game like Rocket League on the Switch. That game uses dedicated servers hosted by its own developer, Psyonix. If we use AbyssalMoney's logic, online play for Rocket League should be free because it's not using Nintendo's servers, right?


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## kumikochan (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves.  It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.
> 
> I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free.  You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers.  To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too:  You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent.  It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run.  As time has gone on, this has changed.  More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased.  You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.
> 
> You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong.  You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such.  The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.


No you're not using their servers mostly since it's p2p. Why do you need to pay for p2p ?


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## AbyssalMonkey (Sep 15, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> I agree %100 with the 2nd part of what you said. These crybaby, broke-ass kids are annoying. "I deserve free stuff, wahhhh." They just clearly don't understand how bandwidth works, because I'm betting most of them have never paid a phone or internet bill before.
> 
> Read the first part of my above comment though. I just don't really see the huge issue with the save file thing. Am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, it could be better.... I just don't see why everyone is so upset.


Honestly, I don't know either.  I view the save file as added benefit and not a primary feature.  Sure it's shit compared to everyone else's cloud save system, but it's Nintendo, what did you expect?  They have just now started to crack down on fake tickets for their Eshop.



Supster131 said:


> That and his claim on third party games using Nintendo's servers are just wrong. Let's look at a game like Rocket League on the Switch. That game uses dedicated servers hosted by its own developer, Psyonix. If we use AbyssalMoney's logic, online play for Rocket League should be free because it's not using Nintendo's servers, right?


I have a very hard time believing you know anything about how authentication works, at all.  With rocket league, you are likely still accessing Nintendo servers to authenticate who you are, even if the game company isn't running their games off of Nintendo servers.  Nintendo is likely playing middle-man in some way acting as your guarantor.  Also, Nintendo isn't pure p2p.  I severely doubt they are using p2p for things like the now dead Miiverse, ghost replay leaderboards for Mario Kart, and any sort of hub worlds in their games.

Edit: How could I even forget the actual initial handshake for the matchmaking systems in the first place?  How the hell is that supposed to be p2p without a central server?  Are you blasting out open connections to the WAN?  You people have no clue how networking works at all do you?


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## Supster131 (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> Honestly, I don't know either.  I view the save file as added benefit and not a primary feature.  Sure it's shit compared to everyone else's cloud save system, but it's Nintendo, what did you expect?  They have just now started to crack down on fake tickets for their Eshop.
> 
> 
> I have a very hard time believing you know anything about how authentication works, at all.  With rocket league, you are likely still accessing Nintendo servers to authenticate who you are, even if the game company isn't running their games off of Nintendo servers.  Nintendo is likely playing middle-man in some way acting as your guarantor.  Also, Nintendo isn't pure p2p.  I severely doubt they are using p2p for things like the now dead Miiverse, ghost replay leaderboards for Mario Kart, and any sort of hub worlds in their games.


Authentication isn't worth shit. If you're paying for the privilege to get authenticated, then why will games like Fortnite not require you to pay for online?

Also, stop acting like you don't know what they meant when they said P2P. Obviously Miiverse wasn't p2p, but like you said, it's dead. They were talking about actual online multiplayer, ya know, the thing Nintendo is now blocking behind a paywall.

Edit: How can I even forget?! You mentioned PC previously:


AbyssalMonkey said:


> You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong. You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones


Steam can be considered the authenticator on PC and they don't charge you for the privilege to get authenticated when playing a game like Rocket League online which has its own dedicated servers.


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## eyeliner (Sep 15, 2018)

ut2k4master said:


> they are saved locally as well as online


So, if one's sub goes haywire, there's the local save? I don't really see a problem, there. It would basically mean paying 20$ for a kickass NES emulator, then, as I don't have the time to devote to online gaming. Still, no thanks.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (Sep 15, 2018)

Sony keeps cloud saves for up to six months yet Nintendo can't even be bothered with it. I'm not playing online anymore on my Switch and it's completely offline so Nintendo isn't getting any more of my dough, I've become a bit tired of paying for their overpriced games.


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## ut2k4master (Sep 15, 2018)

eyeliner said:


> So, if one's sub goes haywire, there's the local save?


correct


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## Huntereb (Sep 15, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> I agree %100 with the 2nd part of what you said. These crybaby, broke-ass kids are annoying. "I deserve free stuff, wahhhh." They just clearly don't understand how bandwidth works, because I'm betting most of them have never paid a phone or internet bill before.


It's OK, save backups are freely available with homebrew. No need to spend money for this feature. Could have easily been implemented in a similar method client-side, but nah. Better lock it behind our servers and pay wall!


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## Deleted member 331788 (Sep 15, 2018)

Kourin said:


> The NES selection is fucking terrible and slowly dripping more is awful.
> They've killed piracy sites
> They've killed Virtual Console
> The *least *they could do is offer a large selection of NES, SNES, GB(C) and GBA games. They have emulators that run all of those perfectly and it's apparent that they don't want us buying them or pirating them in any other way.
> ...



What i don't get is why do they care so much about the old roms after all these years??? ...yet with switch piracy you can find any switch game freely available on those other sites!


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## DJPlace (Sep 15, 2018)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> FFS Nintendo, even Sony gives you 6 months to download your cloud saves after you cancel your PS+ subscription, would it kill you to do the same? God forbid Nintendo lose out on that precious 100mb worth of space some guy used to store his saves!



that never happened to me before. i never lost my cloud saves even once.


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## Huntereb (Sep 15, 2018)

iQue said:


> What i don't get is why do they care so much about the old roms after all these years??? ...yet with switch piracy you can find any switch game freely available on those other sites!


Any and all roms can be obtained through _those_ torrent sites. Literally "ALL NES ROMS EVER" torrent packs exist, only amounting to a few gigabytes. Just grab them and never concern yourself about it ever again.


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## AbyssalMonkey (Sep 15, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> It's OK, save backups are freely available with homebrew. No need to spend money for this feature. Could have easily been implemented in a similar method client-side, but nah. Better lock it behind our servers and pay wall!


This is only from the opinion of someone who can't think like Nintendo.  Nintendo doesn't want any chance of someone tampering with saves to add a payload to crack the system going forward.  I can understand why they don't want user-side backups officially supported.  Though that doesn't mean that they couldn't solve this problem with encryption, but that's expecting too much from Nintendo.

I still hold that the cloud save is an added feature for the main portion of the package which is for their online services.  You aren't going to buy this for _just_ the cloud saves, and I don't think they expect it either.  Treating it as the main selling point is missing the point.


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## Huntereb (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> This is only from the opinion of someone who can't think like Nintendo.  Nintendo doesn't want any chance of someone tampering with saves to add a payload to crack the system going forward.  I can understand why they don't want user-side backups officially supported.  Though that doesn't mean that they couldn't solve this problem with encryption, but that's expecting too much from Nintendo.


The 3DS saved its save data to the SD card (Assuming it was a downloaded title) and could easily be backed up and restored, assuming you knew the title ID of the game in question. All of the save data was encrypted, and many games had features to detect if a save had been restored from a previous point by checking file dates.



AbyssalMonkey said:


> I still hold that the cloud save is an added feature for the main portion of the package which is for their online services.  You aren't going to buy this for _just_ the cloud saves, and I don't think they expect it either.  Treating it as the main selling point is missing the point.


I don't see any reason you'd be buying this beyond "because the features are walled off from me unless I pay for them!!". No virtual console, no save data backup, and no free _peer-to-fucking-peer_ online are all just shit they didn't implement because they knew suckers would pay for it. No other excuse.


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## AbyssalMonkey (Sep 15, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> The 3DS saved its save data to the SD card (Assuming it was a downloaded title) and could easily be backed up and restored, assuming you knew the title ID of the game in question. All of the save data was encrypted, and many games had features to detect if a save had been restored from a previous point by checking file dates.
> 
> 
> I don't see any reason you'd be buying this beyond "because the features are walled off from me unless I pay for them!!". No virtual console, no save data backup, and no free _peer-to-fucking-peer_ online are all just shit they didn't implement because they knew suckers would pay for it. No other excuse.


Save data is one more point of failure. Nintendo needs to keep that in mind when they are marketing this console to publishers. I won't claim to know much about how the 3DS did it, but seeing as how Nintendo already knows their console has been hacked in the first year of it's release, they're clamping down even harder.

Nintendo is charging you for a service.  All matchmaking in any online games does a handshake and authentication to their servers.  Even if the games themselves run P2P, that's still bandwidth.  Asking for free things that cost money is the pinnacle of entitlement.  I've already stated how whining about it is like an adult pretending to be a petulant child.

I refuse to engage in any argument comparing consoles to steam for paid services because Nintendo is a closed platform, they have no competitors.  Steam has to fight with people like GoG, Origin, Ubisoft, etc., so making a paid marketplace that is acting as DRM is suicidal.  Nintendo doesn't have this issue, they only need to compete with Sony and Microsoft, who both charge significantly more for their online services.  The other consoles manufacturers decided that they didn't want to have to pay for their bandwidth and are now charging for it, with Nintendo now following suit.  Even if they did decide to lock out virtual console behind it as a business move to force people to buy it, that's its own separate issue, and one to not be conflated with the asking to pay for your own bandwidth.

I'm done with this thread and with any other thread.  I'm just going to sit by the sidelines and laugh at the petulant, whiny, entitled children who refuse to grow up, think about why things are happening and sit there and one sidedly complain without looking at the issue from a larger perspective.  Enjoy waving your sticks at the shadows in the bottom of the cave, maybe you'll hit a bat.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 15, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Why does everyone care about the cloud saves being deleted if your sub ends? The only way this would be a problem is if you're seriously too broke to afford $20 *AND* your Switch just happens to break while you're couch diving for your YEARLY internet fee. Besides, it's not like them being deleted deletes them off your console. Even deleting the game doesn't do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry, but it's still shit, 20 NES games, and the fact that cloud saves get removed if you stop the service. People are certainly sycophantic.

If there were Snes games, I would reconsider my opinion, but NES games? Boring AF.


----------



## Dominator211 (Sep 15, 2018)

well, as long as the nes games save data is local, nintendo literally kinda screwed up their online even more


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> I'm done with this thread and with any other thread. I'm just going to sit by the sidelines and laugh at the petulant, whiny, entitled children who refuse to grow up, think about why things are happening and sit there and one sidedly complain without looking at the issue from a larger perspective. Enjoy waving your sticks at the shadows in the bottom of the cave, maybe you'll hit a bat.


While I'm going to laugh at those defending Nintendo and allowing Nintendo to fuck them over.

I've stated this before, but I'll say it again. Prior to the Xbox One launch, Microsoft was being very anti-consumer. Did people defend Microsoft and allow them to do whatever the fuck they wanted? NO! Instead, they fought back and spoke with their wallets. Now Microsoft is currently the most consumer-friendly company of out the three. Why do you not want the same thing to happen with Nintendo? Do you not want Nintendo Switch online to be a great service? Are you ok with it being mediocre? Why is Nintendo held to a different standard than Microsoft and Sony? This next line of yours show just that.


AbyssalMonkey said:


> Though that doesn't mean that they couldn't solve this problem with encryption, but that's expecting too much from Nintendo.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 15, 2018)

AbyssalMonkey said:


> Save data is one more point of failure. Nintendo needs to keep that in mind when they are marketing this console to publishers. I won't claim to know much about how the 3DS did it, but seeing as how Nintendo already knows their console has been hacked in the first year of it's release, they're clamping down even harder.


Save data was encrypted with a console-specific key. In order to modify save data for exploitation, another exploit is required.



AbyssalMonkey said:


> Nintendo is charging you for a service.  All matchmaking in any online games does a handshake and authentication to their servers.  Even if the games themselves run P2P, that's still bandwidth.  Asking for free things that cost money is the pinnacle of entitlement.  I've already stated how whining about it is like an adult pretending to be a petulant child.


It's bandwidth to connect to their connection test server when adding a network to the device. It's bandwidth to download game and system updates. It's bandwidth to access the eShop. It's bandwidth to access the News applet. Why do these services that have the potential of using monumental amounts of bandwidth continue to be free while peer-to-peer matchmaking, which requires mere kilobytes of data transfers and minimal server backends compared to other services, now cost money?



AbyssalMonkey said:


> I'm done with this thread and with any other thread.  I'm just going to sit by the sidelines and laugh at the petulant, whiny, entitled children who refuse to grow up, think about why things are happening and sit there and one sidedly complain without looking at the issue from a larger perspective.  Enjoy waving your sticks at the shadows in the bottom of the cave, maybe you'll hit a bat.


>I have no more arguments so I admit defeat! Fuck my ass Nintendo, here's $20 to do so!



the_randomizer said:


> Sorry, but it's still shit


What he said.


----------



## eyeliner (Sep 15, 2018)

To be fair, 20$ *is* pretty affordable, but considering that those who had the console before and *had most of* the now paid service, the paid service is now lacking. It's like they just went for the path of least effort. I mean, NES games, really? Why not Gameboy, while you are at it? Or better yet, Game and Watch.

Someone in this topic said that their games are overpriced. I agree. They don't make decent eShop deals for any decent Nintendo games, so there is little point in hoping to get a good deal on the eShop. Just buy physical and later resell.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

lmao



 

They deserve it.


----------



## wiewiec (Sep 15, 2018)

eyeliner said:


> So, if one's sub goes haywire, there's the local save? I don't really see a problem, there. It would basically mean paying 20$ for a kickass NES emulator, then, as I don't have the time to devote to online gaming. Still, no thanks.



They’re local, but only way to back them up is to pay for this shitty „paywall” or hack console... this are two ways


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 15, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> lmao
> 
> They deserve it.


Just fuck my shit up fam.


----------



## eyeliner (Sep 15, 2018)

wiewiec said:


> They’re local, but only way to back them up is to pay for this shitty „paywall” or hack console... this are two ways


Really, how many times did you have to back up your save in any console game? This seems a brand new feature to users: *complain for lacking save backups*.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 15, 2018)

eyeliner said:


> Really, how many times did you have to back up your save in any console game? This seems a brand new feature to users: *complain for lacking save backups*.


It's been an easily accessible thing since the Wii to be able to backup save data from the console itself to another storage medium. It may not be a requirement, but it's a thing we've had in the past that's only reason for non-inclusion is to lock it behind a paywall.


----------



## eyeliner (Sep 15, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> It's been an easily accessible thing since the Wii to be able to backup save data from the console itself to another storage medium. It may not be a requirement, but it's a thing we've had in the past that's only reason for non-inclusion is to lock it behind a paywall.


I can understand that, of course. It seems reasonable. I have never backed up a save, I believe.


----------



## SwaGoat (Sep 15, 2018)

I didn't check every comment,but I'm really curious: 

 where do these rumors come from? (I'm not being a lawyer of Nintendo,I'd hate it if that was true,but misinformation is also something I dislike)


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 15, 2018)

Price isn't the issue, the lack of compelling content and features is what sucks ass.


----------



## Supster131 (Sep 15, 2018)

SwaGoat said:


> I didn't check every comment,but I'm really curious: View attachment 143353 where do these rumors come from? (I'm not being a lawyer of Nintendo,I'd hate it if that was true,but misinformation is also something I dislike)






Source: https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Nintendo-Switch/Nintendo-Switch-Online/FAQ-1374625.html


----------



## SwaGoat (Sep 15, 2018)

Nintendo is either contradicting themselves or have different regulations depending on the region

source for my pic above: https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22521/p/897


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Price isn't the issue, the lack of compelling content and features is what sucks ass.


I mean, you are right. The price isnt the issue, is the lack of features that justifies it. But still, the price cant be defended for the same reason...


----------



## PedroKeitawa (Sep 15, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> lmao
> 
> View attachment 143348
> 
> They deserve it.



I have leave a like on that video...more becouse Bowser was show as a good father then the Online system it self. So good job Nintendo at least you know how to make your character amazing. To bad the online is terrible. But in some remote part of my brain o hope they can fix this...the only problem is how much time before this happen.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 15, 2018)

PedroKeitawa said:


> I have leave a like on that video...more becouse Bowser was show as a good father then the Online system it self. So good job Nintendo at least you know how to make your character amazing. To bad the online is terrible. But in some remote part of my brain o hope they can fix this...the only problem is how much time before this happen.


I liked the animation too. Hell, i even think they put more effort in the animation than on their online system, which is sad...


----------



## wiewiec (Sep 15, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Price isn't the issue, the lack of compelling content and features is what sucks ass.



Price is Ok, but what kind of crap they smole up there... I really do not wanna online play... but saves i really wishes that cloud backup be free since they do not give me another option and when i read today they delete it after not paying one month ehhhh sad


----------



## MushGuy (Sep 15, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> lmao
> 
> View attachment 143348
> 
> They deserve it.


What's your defense for that, AbyssalMonkey ?


----------



## WhiteMaze (Sep 16, 2018)

mightymuffy said:


> First - Sony allows 6 months after your sub ends, and since it's not a part of Gold, it's forever on Xbox. Your saves go with your account, and that could mean a weekend away at your mates on their console, what's your problem here - instant delete is a dick move by Nintendo, end of story.
> 
> Second - Nintendo's online stinks: compared to what Gold has always been, and what Plus has been since they started charging it's a shambles, almost hilariously bad.. certainly not worth paying for, whereas Plus and Gold are more of an evil necessity: you still begrudge paying for them, but at least you know you're getting a good service for your money.
> 
> Third - How much is the rrp of the NES mini? I feel I need say no more... (and I don't see most complaining about the NES releases anyway..)



The worst thing about PlayStation Plus, is the shit games no one wants that they offer for free each month..

But *even that is better *than what I'm seeing from Nintendo.


----------



## deSSy2724 (Sep 16, 2018)

"Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership."

*NINTENOD WHAT ARE YOU THINKING !!!!!
*
Man.... definitively the lost and damned of the big three. I would rather pay twice the price than supporting this anti consumer sh** practice they throw at us and yet they complain about piracy, WTF?!?!?!?!


----------



## godreborn (Sep 16, 2018)

Nintendo: "lick my ass, you little shits!"


----------



## Milenko (Sep 16, 2018)

deSSy2724 said:


> "Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership."
> 
> *NINTENOD WHAT ARE YOU THINKING !!!!!
> *
> Man.... definitively the lost and damned of the big three. I would rather pay twice the price than supporting this anti consumer sh** practice they throw at us and yet they complain about piracy, WTF?!?!?!?!



Yeah you show Nintenod who's boss


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 16, 2018)

WhiteMaze said:


> The worst thing about PlayStation Plus, is the shit games no one wants that they offer for free each month..
> 
> But *even that is better *than what I'm seeing from Nintendo.


Eh, this year have been pretty decent http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/08/guide_all_free_ps_plus_games_in_2018

That is something that nintendo will NEVER offer.


----------



## DSAndi (Sep 16, 2018)

Lol Nintendo, im kinda glad i dont buy anything from them anymore. The Wii was the last console from em ( and i skipped the Gamecube before ) and they could not deliver or offer the games i wanted to play.

Nintendo was always only after the money, kept customers pay premium on additional Hardware and paying serveral times for the same game.

This new online playing subsription is only another piece of example how Nintendo treats paying customers.


----------



## CeeDee (Sep 16, 2018)

Chary said:


> Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.


Thaaaaat's me. I don't give much of a shit, $20/y for Splatoon online and NES games seems cool by me.


----------



## SwaGoat (Sep 16, 2018)

CeeDee said:


> Thaaaaat's me. I don't give much of a shit, $20/y for Splatoon online and NES games seems cool by me.


I mean,I was thinking by that way too,but since I don't have Splatoon 2 (the only online game I have is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe,which frankly,I didn't play much,especially online) I think I'd rather avoid it,as a rebellion of some kind,even though 1 person not buying isn't probably going to change anything.If Nintendo sees however that people are dissatisfied by that service,I really do hope they change the terms of it.The NES games can probably wait,you get all of them,even if you get them 5 months after,and it's NES games,making it almost not worth to me,I'd prefer waiting untill SNES at WORST case scenario (not releasing n64 or gamecube VC is a dick move)


----------



## CeeDee (Sep 16, 2018)

SwaGoat said:


> I mean,I was thinking by that way too,but since I don't have Splatoon 2 (the only online game I have is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe,which frankly,I didn't play much,especially online) I think I'd rather avoid it,as a rebellion of some kind,even though 1 person not buying isn't probably going to change anything.If Nintendo sees however that people are dissatisfied by that service,I really do hope they change the terms of it.The NES games can probably wait,you get all of them,even if you get them 5 months after,and it's NES games,making it almost not worth to me,I'd prefer waiting untill SNES at WORST case scenario (not releasing n64 or gamecube VC is a dick move)


Nintendo isn't giving you GameCube games for $20 a year.


----------



## SwaGoat (Sep 16, 2018)

CeeDee said:


> Nintendo isn't giving you GameCube games for $20 a year.


Yes,but they're not giving me proper online service/cloud saves either


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 16, 2018)

CeeDee said:


> Nintendo isn't giving you GameCube games for $20 a year.


You're right, they're not giving us GameCube games _period_. Thanks for ditching virtual console for paywalled NES games, Nintendo!


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 16, 2018)

Don't worry, Gamecube is now a "classic" system.  You know what that means?  HD remakes!  Of a select few "best of" games, of course.  Mostly Nintendo games.  Especially the questionable quality ones.  But in HD!

I do find it funny, though, when it's considered "entitlement" to have some way to backup saves.  Yea, it's a relatively new concept, but it's also the sort of standard thing you would come to expect at the point where you have things like large internal rewritable storage.  The same with being able to backup your digital downloads and to be able to sell/trade them with another person.  The only reason people actual then complain about having to pay for cloud storage is because there's no local way to make backups (without hacking the console).

Hacking the console, of course, really shouldn't be the "expected" thing, but really the mentality of Nintendo really does argue it should be.  Then Nintendo will no longer have a "closed" system and of course their whole piracy fears are more magnified by their actions.  It's the sort of thing that reminds me of, "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

This really does make me wonder, just how viable would it be to make an open source Nintendo server clone?  I imagine it'd depend a lot on the game, as the p2p ones would be a lot more doable.  I do know that if such a project were attempted, it would have to be based outside the US.  The US courts have ruled pretty consistently that most server cloning is illegal, which seems outright insane to me.  *sigh*


----------



## A Plus Ric (Sep 16, 2018)

DSAndi said:


> Lol Nintendo, im kinda glad i dont buy anything from them anymore. The Wii was the last console from em ( and i skipped the Gamecube before ) and they could not deliver or offer the games i wanted to play.
> 
> Nintendo was always only after the money, kept customers pay premium on additional Hardware and paying serveral times for the same game.
> 
> This new online playing subsription is only another piece of example how Nintendo treats paying customers.




Nintendo has tried to have backwards compatibility on as many systems as possible up until the switch.  And instead of forcing you to buy all these games for 5 to 20 dollars Each, they offer you them free with their service which costs a literal 5 cents US per day to have. 5 Cents.  "oh noes my saves don't save"  Your saves will save on your switch. What is the problem here?  Ya'll just want more free shit. When they offered free shit on their old systems "oh they are trash they can't do online for shit" so they fix it and want some fees for the upkeep Probably not even profiting off it. So lets bash on em some more cuz we are sad at 5 cents a day.


----------



## Metoroid0 (Sep 16, 2018)

wow so many nes games, 20 games to be exact...from that amount idk how can i even choose...

also im so glad i will RENT them!

WOW!!!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Chary said:


> Nintendo's online really seems like a sham.
> 
> Except, people are going to pay for it regardless, because it's that, or never play online. Even if it's the worst service in the world, they still will get tons of people paying.


Yeah, pay to rent them...
also they always did get ton of people playing, thag was never an issue with nintwndo.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

They can easily fit ALL of their NES games ever made for the system onto one card and make that a collection of nes nes s to play offline. just stick a cartradge and choose ANY nes game you want. i would gladly pay for THAT!

But now, if i wan this handfull of nes games i MUST play online service just to rent them.... i just have no words, there is nothing to say if you defend this...


----------



## jimmyj (Sep 16, 2018)

welp I don't need it or want it and I'm banned anyway.


----------



## Metoroid0 (Sep 16, 2018)

_"Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership."_

Save data wont be available if i don't pay them?!
I got some GC, PS2, PS1 memory cards that has save files that last for years now and i don't pay monthly just to have them there!

*This is big, fat, stinky, wet, sticky BS that needs to be dumbed somewhere else, if you ask me!




*


----------



## Kigiru (Sep 16, 2018)

I have no problem with paying for online play, but not for service of this quality.
- Cloud Service is a horrible mess. Not only it does not work with all of the games, but also have no time to be downloaded after user stops using online services.
- NES Games? Like... these almost 40 years old games that are floating on the internet for completely free and can be easly played on some modern refrigerators and toasters?
- Lol these joypads.
- Lol this trial that is basicaly useless.

Like, i'm not angry because there's nothing to be angry about but comparing it to Sony's and Microsoft's services (way more expensive, but have way more ACTUAL BENEFITS) or even Steam (completely free and gives plenty of promotions and freebies, but without cloud storage) this is underwhelming as hell.


----------



## SwaGoat (Sep 16, 2018)

Kigiru said:


> I have no problem with paying for online play, but not for service of this quality.
> - Cloud Service is a horrible mess. Not only it does not work with all of the games, but also have no time to be downloaded after user stops using online services.
> - NES Games? Like... these almost 40 years old games that are floating on the internet for completely free and can be easly played on some modern refrigerators and toasters?
> - Lol these joypads.
> ...



Well Nintendo tried taking down some ROMs,but honestly,if they think they did (or will) get down every rom,they're laughably wrong.
On another note,steam does have cloud saves,but they're not on every game.
Nintendo's Online Service is something to be angry about for the sole reason of:
you pay for things that should be free


----------



## Kourin (Sep 16, 2018)

It's hillarious to see that the Wii U had
-Virtual Console complete with games up to N64 minus Gameboy and GBC
-Miiverse, included a way to *communicate with your friendslist*
-An internet browser
-Apps like Netflix and YouTube
-An eShop that seemed to have care put into it including optional music
-Probably more I can't think of

Yet the Switch doesn't have any of those things and Nintendo wants payment for this service. How do you as a company take a step this far bloody back?


----------



## Deleted-401606 (Sep 16, 2018)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Iffy much?
> Really people, if I were you I would not give a single cent to Nintendo.
> The service itself is atrocious and the catalogue of games available from older consoles is a fucking joke.
> 
> ...



Every nintendo generation is the same thing tbh. I bought the switch a year ago and own exactly one game on it.


----------



## Jonna (Sep 16, 2018)

Just thought I would post this interesting tidbit that Satoru Iwata said once:

"I don't think its reasonable to make someone pay for a game and then make them prepare a network connection and charge a monthly fee"


----------



## Taleweaver (Sep 16, 2018)

I haven't read the entire thread, but aside the - absolutely justified - complaint that your save games get hidden behind a pay wall, it's mostly personal taste. And for the price, I wouldn't mind.

But I'm turned off by the selection of games. NES games .. AGAIN. They pushed it on the wii, ds, 3ds and wiiu. Then yet again on the nes mini. It's amazing that the latter still sold, because I'm sure that there are toasters that can emulate the NES at this point. They've got a more than decent lineup of indie games in their library. Games that actually make use of this "exotic new online thingy", no less. Would it kill them to have a few of those in the mix?

But no ... Now you get games with your online service that were made before "internet" was a word. All so a few hardcore fans (assuming they still exist outside of Nintendo's staff) can have YET ANOTHER way to relive their childhood..


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 16, 2018)

Wtf ! Really Nintendo ? If I cancel my sub you just erase my saves ? How is that even legal ? It’s robbery plain and simple... At least PsN keep the saves for 6 months... We are in 2018 and Nintendo is making us pay 20$ a year to back up saves, wow...

Wow I didn’t believe you could be more shittier than this Nintendo but you did it! No online for me. F*** you Nintendo.


----------



## |<roni&g (Sep 16, 2018)

Many anti consumer morons on this forum argued against me when I told them the switch paid online is a disgrace and we shouldn't be paying for Nintendo online. We never have had to pay until now and look at the state of it.
People said things like "ok so tell us how you feel about ms and Sony" which is a completely different ball game.
Idiots, stupid idiots willing to bleed money on nothing. Behind the times tendo


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 16, 2018)

“It’s only 20$ so who cares... if you can’t afford 20$ a year it’s your fault”.

Do you understand that even if I can I might not want to do it just because it’s shit. It’s basically 20$ to backup saves and if you stop you lose everything.


----------



## pivix (Sep 16, 2018)

Kourin said:


> It's hillarious to see that the Wii U had
> -Virtual Console complete with games up to N64 minus Gameboy and GBC
> -Miiverse, included a way to *communicate with your friendslist*
> -An internet browser
> ...


Nobody liked Wii U xP. Now it is a time to praise it xD


----------



## TimeMaster (Sep 16, 2018)

Yeah cuz they totally can't afford that temporary server space.


----------



## DVSlayer42 (Sep 16, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> And instead of forcing you to buy all these games for 5 to 20 dollars Each,


Except they already did that. On Wii U and 3DS. Bought them on Wii? Too bad, you have to rebuy them on Wii U and 3DS. I wouldn't mind buying them outright on Switch. It's a perfect Virtual Console device. However, now we have to rent them and check-in every seven days. Imagine if Microsoft or Sony did that. Oh wait Microsoft tried to do that and Nintendo fanboys bashed the crap out of MS. If only they would do that with Nintendo instead of bending over.



A Plus Ric said:


> Your saves will save on your switch. What is the problem here?


You can't back them up. You have to pay Nintendo $20/year and hope that your games are compatible with cloud saves. What's beyond hypocritical is that you can backup your saves on Nintendo's own 3DS and Wii.


----------



## Nic:3 (Sep 16, 2018)

Normally, I don’t post here, nor use a big bold letter, but since many people seem to think this cloud save is a hostage situation,
*You only lose your backup save file on the cloud if you cancel you subscription, not the save on your switch itself!!!*
The wording seems misleading, but I believe that they meant to say what I said in bold.

The reason I believe so is that
1. The site does not state that you need your internet to use your save file. It only states that you only need internet for backing up and sharing your save with other consoles. How else will you play offline then?
2. Some games don’t support it. If they are gonna take hostages like everyone said, wouldn’t it be better to support every games instead?
3. They know law and have lawyers. Deleting saves from users’ console itself is same as sending malwares to delete files from computers. They wouldn’t want users around the world to sue them.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like this pay for online too, since most games are P2P. However, I feel that many people are bashing nintendo for the wrong thing. So, unless your subscription expires and you are so unlucky that your switch breaks on the same day, I wouldn’t worry about the savefiles. We should worry more about online gameplay quality.

Correct me if I’m wrong.


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 16, 2018)

Nic:3 said:


> Normally, I don’t post here, nor use a big bold letter, but since many people seem to think this cloud save is a hostage situation,
> *You only lose your backup save file on the cloud if you cancel you subscription, not the save on your switch itself!!!*
> The wording seems misleading, but I believe that they meant to say what I said in bold.
> 
> ...



Ofc you don’t lose the saves on the switch itself how horrible that would be... I don’t even think they could do something like that, but that doesn’t change the fact that if you can’t pay for another year or month and you break your switch your saves are gone...


----------



## TimeMaster (Sep 16, 2018)

Kafkaus00 said:


> Ofc you don’t lose the saves on the switch itself how horrible that would be... I don’t even think they could do something like that, but that doesn’t change the fact that if you can’t pay for another year or month and you break your switch your saves are gone...


I think this is an obvious fact also, who would even think they would remove the save from your console?


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 16, 2018)

TimeMaster said:


> I think this is an obvious fact also, who would even think they would remove the save from your console?



Ikr, i mean Nintendo is pretty bad but that would be another level of greed.


----------



## TimeMaster (Sep 16, 2018)

Kafkaus00 said:


> Ikr, i mean Nintendo is pretty bad but that would be another level of greed.


That would be too much greed. I don't think the person who posted that knows what an ONLINE service is


----------



## Ericthegreat (Sep 16, 2018)

Enryx25 said:


> Why the hell would you want a NES controller if you cant play NES games?


Because you can pirate them.


----------



## Deleted member 331788 (Sep 16, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> If there were Snes games, I would reconsider my opinion, but NES games? Boring AF.



Phase 1, nes games ...and $60 nes controllers that only work with the nes games! 
Phase 2, snes games ...and $80 snes controllers that only work with the snes games!
Phase 3, n64 games ...and $100 n64 controllers that only work with the n64 games!
Phase 4, Switch is dead!


----------



## DarthDub (Sep 16, 2018)

I'm hacking my Switch.


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 16, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> Then yet again on the nes mini. It's amazing that the latter still sold,



Just goes to show you how much people will pay for convenience + nostalgia.  That and presumably at least some of these people never owned a gba/ds, wii, 3ds, or wii u, so just buying the games as one bundle would be cheaper if that's all they wanted.  More, though, I think it's easier to argue that a fool and his money are easily parted--and I'm definitely not immune to that.  It also goes to show how Nintendo could make a killing if it sold a VM + $1 NES games on Steam.  Sega is doing something similar, and their biggest fault is excluding so many games.



Taleweaver said:


> Now you get games with your online service that were made before "internet" was a word.



Just to be needlessly technical, like most computer science stuff the word "internet" is from the 1970s.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 16, 2018)

Curious to see so many saying _now_ they will hack their Switch. Did you all expect something better than this?

As for cost of service possibly in some way justifying this

Just had a look.
To rent a dedicated server with a proper service level agreement
 Intel  Xeon E5-1650v3
6c/12t - 3.5GHz /3.8GHz
128GB DDR4 ECC 2133 MHz
SoftRAID 2x2TB 
500 Mbps bandwidth

Basically a higher end enterprise server. Might have to figure out limiting factors but that would be a lot of concurrent players in most of the sorts of games we see today. For your little indy game with the average player counts* it is possibly even overkill. Might go looking to see if another one has some better bandwidth (gig or 10 gig) or tacking on some kind of multicast service as that concerns me a bit. This also assumes server operations and not p2p/direct play.

Some £150 a month (more like 120 without VAT which companies don't pay/can claim back, consider also that most hosting providers would love a lump sum and will do you a deal there as well).

12 months, 5 years, 5 regions (NA, EU, Japan, maybe Australia/NZ, Russia maybe or split the US in two).
£45000 in UK prices (not a cheap country for this sort of thing by any means). Be under the wing of someone like EA or Ubisoft and you can probably drop that further if they most likely have their own in house setups.

Prices for that will go down too, if your player count drops then you can probably scale it back or up as necessary.

Have you seen the advertising budgets of some games lately? £45000 (remember this is 5 years all at once) is nothing really. Scale that up a few more times for redundancy or additional resources and it is still not much if your budget is several million, maybe not quite the rounding error of the initial things but eh.

* http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/83/nintendo-switch/ (VGChartz I know but I am going with it).
Super Bomberman R (I know FIFA 18 technically sold more but given football's lack of popularity in the US... also it was still only 1 million total) sold apparently 0.76 million worldwide and is thus one of the top non nintendo franchises with online play. Said fraction North America 0.23 Europe 0.31 Japan 0.17 and everywhere else 0.05. That is totals as well. Not sure what estimate we would use for concurrent player counts but after the initial surge I don't imagine it is more than a few thousand (I think I just heard a bomberman fan wish for that much as well), certainly vgchartz's page for the game lists sales in a "period" in the thousands.

For early months you might want to rent a few more servers. Many years ago my game of atomic bomberman ran on next to nothing (not sure if I want to claim dial up but I might) and functionally is just like this (atomic might have even had larger maps, more items, player counts and whatnot).


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 16, 2018)

iQue said:


> Phase 1, nes games ...and $60 nes controllers that only work with the nes games!
> Phase 2, snes games ...and $80 snes controllers that only work with the snes games!
> Phase 3, n64 games ...and $100 n64 controllers that only work with the n64 games!
> Phase 4, Switch is dead!



I wouldn't put it past them


----------



## Metoroid0 (Sep 16, 2018)

Jonna said:


> Just thought I would post this interesting tidbit that Satoru Iwata said once:
> 
> "I don't think its reasonable to make someone pay for a game and then make them prepare a network connection and charge a monthly fee"


I never thought id say this for anyone but... i miss that man..he was a true visionarry and a good man!

the one man i imagined if i meet him i will drink a sake with him...





truly great times under him.... he has many great quotes, he truly cared for gamers... he was one...


----------



## DSAndi (Sep 17, 2018)

A Plus Ric said:


> Nintendo has tried to have backwards compatibility on as many systems as possible up until the switch.  And instead of forcing you to buy all these games for 5 to 20 dollars Each, they offer you them free with their service which costs a literal 5 cents US per day to have. 5 Cents.  "oh noes my saves don't save"  Your saves will save on your switch. What is the problem here?  Ya'll just want more free shit. When they offered free shit on their old systems "oh they are trash they can't do online for shit" so they fix it and want some fees for the upkeep Probably not even profiting off it. So lets bash on em some more cuz we are sad at 5 cents a day.



Mate i dont know what you smokin. The SNES could not play NES Games. The N64 could not play SNES Games, the Gamecobe could not play N64 carts.
Well when i think about Wii and Gamecube well, for me the Wii was mainly a gamecube with motion controll and thats it.
I cant say anything about Wii U, i guess it emulates Wii Stuff quite well. Backward compatibility on switch with Wii U ? none.
You might have a point on handheld systems, but again i stopped at the DS Lite.
While i actually find the DS Lite game libary pretty good i get bored with Nintendos Home consoles, not offering games im interested it. I morly see the same game titels on any console again and again. Thouse might be different more and less, but basicly im not interesed in thouse anymore. Or in other words i cant stand em anymore.

As for the exsample of the NES games. Who really wants that crap ? i did not own a NES back then, i had an Comodore Amiga at that time and that was a lot better then the NES, that was released 1 year later in Europe.
Im sure there are a few nice games, but overall im not interested in any of them. 

Aside from that i did experience the Nintendo Online Service in the past and overall it was bad. Sure you coud play with and against other people, but buying online content again and again one a new system instead of binding it to an account, they bind it on a console.
There where other issues aswell.

See you can buy as many Nintendo producs you want and pay for online service, but i dont even buy any of Nintendos Hardware anymore, because Nintendo offers nothing interesting for me.

I bash on em because thats is how they treat customers too. FYI i also dont own a PS4 or XBO, mainly because most games come out on PC too in better quality. Games there are cheaper and really i dont have much time to play games anymore.
Getting me a console would be waste of money for me. 

If you think 20$ is worth it for playing online and a few games than go pay it. By doin so you show other companys that this a a good cash grab for usually free services.

Better option dont do it, dont support em more and maybe even sell the switch.

Actually Nintendo could offer a streaming service for 20$ a month and let you stream the Nintendo libery on other systems or do more porting on the Nvidia Shield ATV like in China.
But im still not interested.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 17, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Curious to see so many saying _now_ they will hack their Switch. Did you all expect something better than this?
> 
> As for cost of service possibly in some way justifying this
> 
> ...


Woah buddy! You seem to be implying the service isn't peer-to-peer! Now scale your costs back to a few raspberry pi's and a couple gigabit or two of bandwidth for the matchmaking and routing alone.


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## Kafkaus00 (Sep 17, 2018)

It’s just mind-blowing that some actual people thought this through. Are they actually aware of how bad it is ? How hard is it to make people happy ? 

I wish we could see a meeting at Nintendo Japan.


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## Deleted member 331788 (Sep 17, 2018)

What happens when Nintendo close down the server? ...in about 4-5 years time!


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## linuxares (Sep 17, 2018)

iQue said:


> What happens when Nintendo close down the server? ...in about 4-5 years time!


Lots of fire!


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## Metoroid0 (Sep 17, 2018)

Kafkaus00 said:


> It’s just mind-blowing that some actual people thought this through. Are they actually aware of how bad it is ? How hard is it to make people happy ?
> 
> I wish we could see a meeting at Nintendo Japan.


its actually not that hard, its its pretty simple...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



linuxares said:


> Lots of fire!


they dont need to close it, you just need to forget to pay for a year and its all gone


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## Kafkaus00 (Sep 17, 2018)

Metoroid0 said:


> its actually not that hard, its its pretty simple...
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Then why don’t they do it ? Their way of thinking is so damn weird, almost everything they do is anti-consumers, do you want our money or not ?


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## TimeMaster (Sep 17, 2018)

Anyone know what time this update is coming?


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## bluhacks (Sep 17, 2018)

TimeMaster said:


> Anyone know what time this update is coming?


Tomorrow


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## TimeMaster (Sep 18, 2018)

bluhacks said:


> Tomorrow


Time, not date haha


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## face235 (Sep 18, 2018)

I'm glad that I didn't buy a Switch back then, I'm even more so now.

The way I'm seeing it is: what benefits come with paid online? I'm a PS+ subscriber for the big discounts whenever there's a good sale going on, and there are a lot of those.

Nintendo, on the other hand, is content to keep their games at full price for years at a time. Example: Pokemon X/Y. Is there a reason for it to still be $39.99 after 5 years? Or Hyrule Warriors to still be $59.99 for the original Wii U version? Also, why are Wii Us still $299.99 anyway?

Will the new income coming in from Nintendo's paid online service motivate them to have sales and lower those prices?

A clue?
NO.


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## Rabbid4240 (Sep 18, 2018)

Chat with your friends! (or just skype them)
Play classic NES games! (or just hack your switch) and get a classic wireless NES controller that you can only use to play NES games!
Backup your save data in the cloud! (or just hack your switch and put it on your SD card)
Check in with your account every. fucking. week so you can play nes games on h̶o̶m̶e̶b̶r̶e̶w̶ nintendork switch online.
More games
More useless features
Less money

S p L a T n E t   2


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## Tiger21820 (Sep 18, 2018)

Today's the day... Good-bye world of video game convenience... It's been nice knowing you...
*Proceeds to play Last Day from Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask*


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## Kafkaus00 (Sep 18, 2018)

Even though i love my switch, a part of me regret buying it. It’s an awesome piece of hardware but Nintendo doesn’t deserve the praise honestly. It’s like one step forward two steps backward...


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## BiggieCheese (Sep 18, 2018)

Paid online in general is BS. Assuming people have an equal amount of bark and bite and don’t buy into this come tomorrow, I hope this will lead to some sort of consumer revolt to get the big three (Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft) to either reduce their prices (or improve their services in Nintendo’s case) or, preferably but as unlikely as it is; drop paid online entirely.
All this talk isn’t going to stop little Jimmy and Susan from using mommy’s/daddy’s credit card, though.


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## Trash_Bandatcoot (Sep 18, 2018)

Nintendo deletes your backups if you don't pay?

*What?!*


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 18, 2018)

Treeko said:


> Halo uses dedicated servers on xbox I am pretty sure about that, on playstation there's GT sport using dedicated servers, both sony and Microsoft have modernised their online infrastructure, and pretty much all major triple AAA shooters and sports games are using dedicated servers on both consoles.


Halo 5 started on dedicated servers. MCC just officially switched to it.. And it's not exactly working well.


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## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

i just had a idiot over on the facebook group try and tell me that "Save data stored via the Save Data Cloud backup is available for as long as you have an active Nintendo Switch Online membership." is vague.

like... Mother fucker, no its not.... it clearly states that it is only available FOR AS LONG AS YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP.

he then tried to go ahead and discredit the rest of Nintendo's websites, including the UK and Australia's, stating that "because of the way the United States Nintendo has worded their FAQ, that the rest of the FAQ's from Nintendo's around the world are now completely vague, and are not at all stating the same thing, ergo, it is all vague, and should not be listened to".

like.... what? This literally made me ask a separate group of people what he meant.... and it made me dumber for having to ask it.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> i just had a idiot over on the facebook group try and tell me that "Save data stored via the Save Data Cloud backup is available for as long as you have an active Nintendo Switch Online membership." is vague.
> 
> like... Mother fucker, no its not.... it clearly states that it is only available FOR AS LONG AS YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you encountered a delusional fanboy member of the Nintendo defence squad. They are commonly seen blowing smoke up Nintendo's arse and treating criticism of Nintendo as a personal attack on them and their way of life.

Don't know about facebook but around here bonus points if you can send one into a fit of rage and have them start twitching on the floor.

If you wanted to read things and do some serious mental gymnastics it could read as not a "we will delete your account 1 minute after expiry" as much as "we make absolutely no effort or commitment to storing your data, if you happen to expire one minute before the automated sweep then sucks to be you". Either way far short of the competition on an already incredibly dubious prospect.


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## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Sounds like you encountered a delusional fanboy member of the Nintendo defence squad. They are commonly seen blowing smoke up Nintendo's arse and treating criticism of Nintendo as a personal attack on them and their way of life.
> 
> Don't know about facebook but around here bonus points if you can send one into a fit of rage and have them start twitching on the floor.
> 
> If you wanted to read things and do some serious mental gymnastics it could read as not a "we will delete your account 1 minute after expiry" as much as "we make absolutely no effort or commitment to storing your data, if you happen to expire one minute before the automated sweep then sucks to be you". Either way far short of the competition on an already incredibly dubious prospect.



oh yes, he was a stupid fanboy. he went from calling it vague, to improper, to outright unsubstantiated, all the way down to calling me crazy, trying to correct my grammar, and trying to tell me to relax... lawl.

oh and he then lost it when i was telling him that he was playing devils advocate.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> i just had a idiot over on the facebook group try and tell me that "Save data stored via the Save Data Cloud backup is available for as long as you have an active Nintendo Switch Online membership." is vague.
> 
> like... Mother fucker, no its not.... it clearly states that it is only available FOR AS LONG AS YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP.
> 
> ...


You shouldnt be arguing in the first place with people that defends this shit of a service.


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## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> You shouldnt be arguing in the first place with people that defends this shit of a service.



all i did was mirror this post, and credited the original maker of this post... AND HOLY SHIT DID THEY COME THROUGH!...

in the last 48 hours alone i've had to block at least 30 of em.


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## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> all i did was mirror this post, and credited the original maker of this post... AND HOLY SHIT DID THEY COME THROUGH!...
> 
> in the last 48 hours alone i've had to block at least 30 of em.


oof, that sounds like a headache.


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## Kafkaus00 (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> i just had a idiot over on the facebook group try and tell me that "Save data stored via the Save Data Cloud backup is available for as long as you have an active Nintendo Switch Online membership." is vague.
> 
> like... Mother fucker, no its not.... it clearly states that it is only available FOR AS LONG AS YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE MEMBERSHIP.
> 
> ...



Fanboys are really dangerous because they are willing to oversee everything a publisher is doing just because they “love” it and then pay for a shitty service, fanboys is the reason they keep on doing bad stuff. Apple, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, fanboys pay so they don’t care about the minority like us. I’m not getting the Nintendo online because it’s a scam but that won’t make any difference... 

The best thing to do with them is to let them be and hope that they will grow out of it. One can love something deeply but true love is when you can see the flaws and criticize it. I love Nintendo but when they do bad shit i’m gonna say it.


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## radicalwookie (Sep 18, 2018)

MiiJack said:


> Can't we reach out Nintendo about the service, like how to make it better?


Yeah good luck with that man


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## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

Kafkaus00 said:


> Fanboys are really dangerous because they are willing to oversee everything a publisher is doing just because they “love” it and then pay for a shitty service, fanboys is the reason they keep on doing bad stuff. Apple, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, fanboys pay so they don’t care about the minority like us. I’m not getting the Nintendo online because it’s a scam but that won’t make any difference...
> 
> The best thing to do with them is to let them be and hope that they will grow out of it. One can love something deeply but true love is when you can see the flaws and criticize it. I love Nintendo but when they do bad shit i’m gonna say it.




damn...frakkin...STRAIGHT!


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## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Sorry, but it's still shit, 20 NES games, and the fact that cloud saves get removed if you stop the service. People are certainly sycophantic.
> 
> If there were Snes games, I would reconsider my opinion, but NES games? Boring AF.


Ok, well it's still a service. Nintendo is still a company who's bottom line is making money. If you don't like the service, don't pay for it. I'm just saying in my opinion, what they are asking and doing is fair. It's not like they are scamming us.



Huntereb said:


> It's OK, save backups are freely available with homebrew. No need to spend money for this feature. Could have easily been implemented in a similar method client-side, but nah. Better lock it behind our servers and pay wall!


Last I checked you can't even use homebrew on your system without flagging yourself for a ban next time you go online. This is a solution, yes (although you're being very mocking and childish about it) but not a good one if you plan to still use any of the online features.

The bottom line for anyone bitching is: the service is $20 per YEAR.... quit your bitching, leave your house for the first time ever, and get a damn job. $20 is nothing. I spend more on lunch sometimes, and you idiots are complaining about spending it once a year. As for the cloud service, its a SERVICE. It shouldn't be free. What *should* be free is the ability to dump encrypted saves like on the 3ds, but lets be honest.... everyone here knows why they didn't do that on Switch.

Honestly you all sounds like a bunch of spoiled fucking brats. "Gimmy free stuff."


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Ok, well it's still a service. Nintendo is still a company who's bottom line is making money. If you don't like the service, don't pay for it. I'm just saying in my opinion, what they are asking and doing is fair. It's not like they are scamming us.
> 
> 
> Last I checked you can't even use homebrew on your system without flagging yourself for a ban next time you go online. This is a solution, yes (although you're being very mocking and childish about it) but not a good one if you plan to still use any of the online features.
> ...



I have a job, I could pay the 20$, I just don’t like being robbed for something I should have day one on the console. This “service” is bad and that’s why i’m not gonna pay for it.


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## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

Kafkaus00 said:


> I have a job, I could pay the 20$, I just don’t like being robbed for something I should have day one on the console. This “service” is bad and that’s why i’m not gonna pay for it.


...and that's a perfectly acceptable way of going about it. I'm not trying to say everyone here should pay it, just stop bitching that it's not free.



JanoriaCorven said:


> AROOOOOGAH AROOOOOOOOOGAH! NINTENDO FANBOY ALERT! NINTENDO FANBOY ALERT! AROOOOOOOOOOOGAH


....and with those "sound effects" I can safely say 8-year-old detected.


----------



## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Ok, well it's still a service. Nintendo is still a company who's bottom line is making money. If you don't like the service, don't pay for it. I'm just saying in my opinion, what they are asking and doing is fair. It's not like they are scamming us.
> 
> 
> Last I checked you can't even use homebrew on your system without flagging yourself for a ban next time you go online. This is a solution, yes (although you're being very mocking and childish about it) but not a good one if you plan to still use any of the online features.
> ...



Now onto a real serious comment. There exist people out there that are medically incapable of getting a job, and survive on only 11k a year. and have given up a lot of their precious ownings in order to get a switch in the first place. 
Secondly. We're not asking for free shit. stfu with that comment. and anyone that is deserves to be ridiculed.
Thirdly. Why would you want to go online with homebrew? its common knowledge that if anyone went online with homebrew since the Nintendo Wii days, that their ass is gonna get banned. Hell... its been even earlier than that!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



MadMageKefka said:


> ...and that's a perfectly acceptable way of going about it. I'm not trying to say everyone here should pay it, just stop bitching that it's not free.
> 
> 
> ....and with those "sound effects" I can safely say 8-year-old detected.



30 going on 6. Grow older, not more mature.
Try it some time.


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## Kafkaus00 (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> ...and that's a perfectly acceptable way of going about it. I'm not trying to say everyone here should pay it, just stop bitching that it's not free.
> 
> 
> ....and with those "sound effects" I can safely say 8-year-old detected.



I’m not bitching because it’s not free, i’m bitching because the service is freaking bad but I need to have it if I want to play online or back up my saves. Easy as that.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> There exist people out there that are medically incapable of getting a job, and survive on only 11k a year. and have given up a lot of their precious ownings in order to get a switch in the first place.


You being handicapped (or anyone) is not an excuse for Nintendo to reprice their wares for the entire world. That is an insanely selfish way of thinking. I'm sorry if you're talking about yourself and it makes life hard, but that's no reason to bitch about a company charging for a service.




JanoriaCorven said:


> Secondly. We're not asking for free shit. stfu with that comment. and anyone that is deserves to be ridiculed.


Plenty of people are. The comments I quoted are from like 5 pages back, so relax. I've been gone for a few days. Used to be here every day, but cancerous people like you that try to turn every discussion into their own personal war chased me away, or these retards and their "I want free shit" attitude. Now I just stop in for news, mostly. Want me to "stfu?" ....block me. Easy.




JanoriaCorven said:


> Thirdly. Why would you want to go online with homebrew? its common knowledge that if anyone went online with homebrew since the Nintendo Wii days, that their ass is gonna get banned. Hell... its been even earlier than that!


....which is exactly why I said it. The person I quoted suggested it as a solution to the paid cloud service. I explained why that may not work for everyone. What don't you understand?


----------



## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> 30 going on 6. Grow older, not more mature.
> Try it some time.


No thanks, I focus on maturity more. I dislike people looking down on me like I do to you now.



Kafkaus00 said:


> I’m not bitching because it’s not free, i’m bitching because the service is freaking bad but I need to have it if I want to play online or back up my saves. Easy as that.


Did I quote you? No?.... move along then. Sounds to me like you just wanna fight someone.


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## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> You being handicapped (or anyone) is not an excuse for Nintendo to reprice their wares for the entire world. That is an insanely selfish way of thinking. I'm sorry if you're talking about yourself and it makes life hard, but that's no reason to bitch about a company charging for a service.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the moment you result to insults is the moment you lose any sort of semblance of debate.

Also, like Kafkaus said... we're complaining because of certain practices within the service, not the service or its pricing in of itself..


----------



## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> Also, like Kafkaus said... we're complaining because of certain practices within the service, not the service or its pricing in of itself..


...and as I said in response, I wasn't talking to either of you in my post. I quoted 2 people. You guys are just butthurt and wanna argue with what you consider a "Nintendo Fanboy" over it. The person(s) I was quoting DID bitch about having to pay, so what I said was relevant. Calm your man titties neckbeard.


----------



## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

Also, when i called you hypocritical. This was the point in question in which i was calling you hypocritical. You dislike the fact that i "looked down at you", which, i wasnt even doing in the first place. As it was just a simple SHIT POST... and then you went on the offensive... i've been nothing but smart ass and light hearted with you up until this point.



MadMageKefka said:


> No thanks, I focus on maturity more. I dislike people looking down on me like I do to you now.


----------



## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

... people are allowed to make light hearted posts that poke fun at a persons particular action... its not our responsibility to hold hands with your feelings. thats what i call shit post... making posts that are on topic, but are so light hearted and deliberately stupid, that its considered "Shit post"


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> I'm already online? Aaaaanyway, I quoted 2 people and others responded with their bullshit. This doesn't involve you, stop trying to GET involved if you don't like my attitude. I'm honestly not mad at all, though. Why would I be mad other people don't wanna pay Nintendo? Despite me bitching about others here, I'm really no Nintendo fanboy. I've stolen PLENTY from them. You guys go ahead and assume what you will though. This is why this site sucks now. Nothing but people like you that jump to conclusions and freak out over literally nothing. I'll say it again, I DIDN'T QUOTE YOU SO I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU. Go back to whatever it is you were doing if you dislike my opinions so much. You chose to argue with me over something you didn't understand. Now this is happening.
> 
> The reality of this situation is that I was saying people that bitch about the price need to shut up, and despite one of you even agreeing with me, you both still decide to turn it into an argument. You're trying to tell me what I said isn't related to how you see it, because you're bitching about the quality of the service, and not the price itself. THAT'S WHY I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU. YOU CLEARLY GET IT. So stop being so damn salty / stupid, realize what's ACTUALLY going on here, READ my comments, and then kindly go away.
> 
> ...



Well then my bad. I just thought it was a “discussion”. If you post something online be prepared that people might speak with you. I’m sorry I bothered you. I just think you’re a bit agressive that’s all.

I wish you a good day!


----------



## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> I'm already online? Aaaaanyway,



you also dont know how to obviously read. she said "get THE online" as in the online membership.

"Shitposting is posting large amounts of content of "aggressively, ironically, and trollishly poor quality""

which, i did.


Minus the fact i did it on a SMALL scale. To the scale of about... 3 - 4 posts? not many. and it was all in jest..

i would advise that you take the earlier advice. log off, get a coffee, go out and take a walk in the park... release your anger in a game or something. You're obviously pent up with it and releasing it in a heavily bad mannerism.

Also... take a joke.


----------



## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

Kafkaus00 said:


> I’m a boy xD (i’m now aware that my profile pic might give the wrong idea. I just love FLCL that much.)



HO SHIT! SORRY! D:


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> I'm not trying to say everyone here should pay it, just stop bitching that it's not free.


Why? If I look out into the world and see someone offering something better for free (and my reasoned estimates for costs are "if you must do it a silly way it is still a rounding error for you") I am going to question it when someone tries to sell the same product (or indeed an inferior one) for some money.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> you also dont know how to obviously read. she said "get THE online" as in the online membership.
> 
> "Shitposting is posting large amounts of content of "aggressively, ironically, and trollishly poor quality""
> 
> which, i did.


Which is also against the rules to post outside of "the edge of the forum." Besides, if you meant it as a joke, you wouldn't have continued. Stop trying to justify your childish behavior. "She" as you put it already realized her mistake and moved on. Your turn....


----------



## Kafkaus00 (Sep 18, 2018)

JanoriaCorven said:


> HO SHIT! SORRY! D:



Don’t worry! Doesn’t matter honestly


----------



## JanoriaCorven (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Which is also against the rules to post outside of "the edge of the forum." Besides, if you meant it as a joke, you wouldn't have continued. Stop trying to justify your childish behavior. "She" as you put it already realized her mistake and moved on. Your turn....



i truly wish you experience the day you let go of your anger and hypocrisies. its obviously not doing you any favors.

be safe and well. even though you will never interpret that as genuine. 

if you want to continue being hateful. and taking things the wrong way, then i have nothing more to say.


----------



## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Why? If I look out into the world and see someone offering something better for free I am going to question it when someone tries to sell the same product (or indeed an inferior one) for some money.


Finally, someone who actually wants to discuss and not argue. You have no idea how refreshing this is.... That being said, what platforms other than PC have free online?


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Daww, you're adorable. Yes, my words are aggressive, but I'm far from "angry." I'm just very blunt with people I don't respect. See it how you will, though. You got mad at the post I made that wasn't even directed at you, and "shitposted," as you put it, in response. You literally asked for this kind of reply. Don't want people to talk to you like this? Stop being a socially defective asshole. =)
> 
> 
> Finally, someone who actually wants to discuss and not argue. You have no idea how refreshing this is.... That being said, what platforms other than PC have free online?


Loads of historical ones, the other mobile devices (some of Nintendo's biggest competition at present) but why look further than the PC and general server costings?


----------



## MadMageKefka (Sep 18, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Loads of historical ones, the other mobile devices (some of Nintendo's biggest competition at present) but why look further than the PC and general server costings?


Historically speaking, I don't think that should count. Technology changes fast. As for other modern mobile platforms.... what others are there? I don't even know of any worth a damn. Then the server costs. I don't know how much each game costs to run, but Nintendo hosts a lot of 3rd party games. Wouldn't they have to cover the cost of those too? Seems to me like a small service fee isn't all that unreasonable.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> That being said, what platforms other than PC have free online?


Every other Nintendo console that's included online functionality to date.

His argument was not the cost of online multiplayer specifically, more so features included with said membership. $20 certainly isn't a lot, but for a service supplying multiplayer that has already been free for more than a decade and will continue to be peer-to-peer, purposefully discludes the ability to back up save data specifically to lock it behind a paywall, makes specific NES games (which can be played online in your browser or on your phone any time) playable for only a week offline, and brings only discounts on games rather than giving some out with the subscription like every other service available does, it just doesn't sound like a good deal.



MadMageKefka said:


> I don't know how much each game costs to run, but Nintendo hosts a lot of 3rd party games. Wouldn't they have to cover the cost of those too? Seems to me like a small service fee isn't all that unreasonable.


They do not. Third party games service their own content, Nintendo simply requires an account to access these services.



MadMageKefka said:


> Historically speaking, I don't think that should count. Technology changes fast.


>They've been supplying these services free for more than a decade and still made fucking boatloads of cash, but times are changing and I want to pay money for it instead!
Did you consider maybe that the purchase of a game contributes to a server backend for the multiplayer included with it? It is an advertised feature of the game, after all.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Ok, well it's still a service. Nintendo is still a company who's bottom line is making money. If you don't like the service, don't pay for it. I'm just saying in my opinion, what they are asking and doing is fair. It's not like they are scamming us.
> 
> 
> Last I checked you can't even use homebrew on your system without flagging yourself for a ban next time you go online. This is a solution, yes (although you're being very mocking and childish about it) but not a good one if you plan to still use any of the online features.
> ...





DeslotlCL said:


> When the only redeeming quality about a "service" is that it's cheaper, maybe it's time to think twice about why you are defending it.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> 1) Just because past systems were free doesn't mean they need to stay that way forever. I know you don't like that idea, but that's how the world works. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it. You may choose to not purchase a sub, however. Simple.


Again:


Huntereb said:


> >They've been supplying these services free for more than a decade and still made fucking boatloads of cash, but times are changing and I want to pay money for it instead!
> Did you consider maybe that the purchase of a game contributes to a server backend for the multiplayer included with it? It is an advertised feature of the game, after all.





MadMageKefka said:


> 3) Wow, another person who can't type without being a cunt. Your profile pic is a MS paint drawn anime girl, your self-given role is "GBAtemp psycho," and your sig is "lewd.pics".... Just go away. Your opinions are invalid by default. I never said I WANTED to pay smartass, I said I thought it was fair. Any chance you could possibly give facts and discuss this with me without getting your cotton panties in a bunch and giving me the sarcastic attitude? You did fine up until that 3rd section.


>I AM ANGERY and got my point refuted in a way I don't know how to reply to! I'll just attack your character instead!!



MadMageKefka said:


> This isn't a paid service for "free" stuff, this is a paid service to use the console's online features.


...That, beyond mere kilobytes of bandwidth for matchmaking, are hosted by yours and other people's consoles, not by the company you're paying the money to. This gripe applies to the majority of games with multiplayer capabilities on other consoles as well.


----------



## FAST6191 (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> 1) Just because past systems were free doesn't mean they need to stay that way forever. I know you don't like that idea, but that's how the world works. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it. You may choose to not purchase a sub, however. Simple.


If it was some rare and diminishing resource, or one which suddenly becomes harder to produce then sure. You know what is not that though? Bandwidth, server computing power, server storage and any other metric you care to list that you measure servers by. At the same time Nintendo is doing the same sorts of games sending the same sorts of data we have done since dial up (it is not like they suddenly shifted to 4k video from 360p -- it is still 8 players positional data, weapon info, weapon firing info, possibly pickup info and general score counts). If they were running some crazy mmo which needed loads of servers, stored terabytes of data, calculates loads of data, handles massive databases and generally does all that then we can talk further (though I figure there is a reason they have subscriptions or are pay to do much more than demo). 
I ran the numbers earlier for monthly rental of an enterprise server setup for every region of some potency that would probably handle it (never mind that things are still doing p2p and thus they don't even need that swish a setup) would be 40 to 50K GBP for the full 5 years which is a rounding error in game budgets, if they wanted to rent a year upfront that drops to 10K which if it is a good game will be made back in no time and fund the rest of the time. Furthermore end users have wanted to run their own servers for years now, and demonstrably do for many things (EA, activision, Microsoft and all those which run any popular FPS probably make a small chunk of change from those that want to "rent servers" rather than play on public ones).
If you are EA or ubisoft then you can probably rent some time on EA's/Ubisoft's server farms they likely have or pay for as part of being them (if they don't they are bigger fools than I thought) which is all nicely load balanced, scaleable, has someone to keep it running (probably for all the games as well which means you are not paying a team for one game as much as a bunch of them) for far less than that.

To that end they are gating off online to make people pay for something that confers them no real benefit for it. if they are thinking about charging it is because they are greedy bastards offering a poor deal and I will call that out when I see it.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

So much drama over $20/year.  Won't take long for all the faux outrage to die down just like it did after PSN switched to paid.  If you were already pirating Switch games then don't pretend that paid online was some sort of "breaking point."


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

It's crazy just how many people are so inept that they can't think for a second that, perhaps, they don't have to be loyal to a company for everything they produce, and that not buying a product or service and giving criticism for it may potentially benefit them in the outcome.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 18, 2018)

MadMageKefka said:


> Ok, well it's still a service. Nintendo is still a company who's bottom line is making money. If you don't like the service, don't pay for it. I'm just saying in my opinion, what they are asking and doing is fair. It's not like they are scamming us.
> 
> 
> Last I checked you can't even use homebrew on your system without flagging yourself for a ban next time you go online. This is a solution, yes (although you're being very mocking and childish about it) but not a good one if you plan to still use any of the online features.
> ...




There's no denying on how barebones it feels compared to the Wii U Online.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> So much drama over $20/year.  Won't take long for all the faux outrage to die down just like it did after PSN switched to paid.  If you were already pirating Switch games then don't pretend that paid online was some sort of "breaking point."


Once again:


DeslotlCL said:


> When the only redeeming quality about a "service" is that it's cheaper, maybe it's time to think twice about why you are defending it.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> When the only redeeming quality about a "service" is that it's cheaper, maybe it's time to think twice about why you are defending it.


Nintendo competes with Sony and Microsoft, not some other imaginary console.  Being _considerably_ cheaper (1/3rd) than the competition is a big plus no matter how you slice it.  Having exclusives that I actually want to play online is another big plus (Smash, Pokemon).

The "extras" for all three services (PSN/XBL/NXO) I could take or leave, so price really is the biggest determining factor for me and a lot of other people.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Nintendo competes with Sony and Microsoft, not some other imaginary console.  Being _considerably_ cheaper (1/3rd) than the competition is a big plus no matter how you slice it.  Having exclusives that I actually want to play online is another big plus (Smash, Pokemon).
> 
> The "extras" for all three services (PSN/XBL/NXO) I could take or leave, so price really is the biggest determining factor for me and a lot of other people.



Well, you get what you pay for. Low price, low content. There's no defending that it has a lot less content and is not very appealing compared to the competition, so...


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Well, you get what you pay for. Low price, low content. There's no defending that it has a lot less content and is not very appealing compared to the competition, so...


PSN would give me a bunch of indies I bought super cheap for PC a long time ago.  I might not play them a ton, but online-enabled NES games are still more of an appealing novelty than that.


----------



## kuwanger (Sep 18, 2018)

You forgot Android, which is clearly a pretty large competitor to Nintendo in the handheld/mobile space.  Not enough to displace Nintendo because of the inconsistent/shitty controls and latency issues, so it's mostly an easy win on Nintendo's end.  Yet those are things Google could fix and bury Nintendo. :/

Edit: To put it in perspective, Google Play store market for 2017 was $38.5 billion vs total Nintendo profits in 2017 of $1.6 billion.  Google obvious only takes [a substantial] cut of that and that doesn't include operating costs, but I imagine if they were to push for better controls, better latency on input/displays, and changed the ratio of developer:google revenue sharing to lure the likes of Fortnite back...  Honestly, given how Sony and MS have basically abandoned the handheld space it'd seem they too would like to get in on the Google Play store action (with better pay ratios).


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Nintendo competes with Sony and Microsoft, not some other imaginary console.  Being _considerably_ cheaper (1/3rd) than the competition is a big plus no matter how you slice it.  Having exclusives that I actually want to play online is another big plus (Smash, Pokemon).
> 
> The "extras" for all three services (PSN/XBL/NXO) I could take or leave, so price really is the biggest determining factor for me and a lot of other people.


It'a pretty sad when people are comformists with a terrible and mediocre service. I agree that nintendo games are fun and all, but paying for the same laggy p2p online experience? Lack of features that even a dreamcast had back then in 1999? For nes games with online? Sheesh, it isnt like there are free alternatives on pc with kaillera or even on androids.

It is nice to be loyal to a company, but there are _*limits*._


----------



## RattletraPM (Sep 18, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> It's crazy just how many people are so inept that they can't think for a second that, perhaps, they don't have to be loyal to a company for everything they produce, and that not buying a product or service and giving criticism for it may potentially benefit them in the outcome.


Corporate loyalty is cancer. Not just in gaming but in general. All it does is help already big companies grow even bigger and gain monopolies, then bite you in the ass by putting anti-consumer restrictions in place because they want to spill every single cent they can from your wallet.

You aren't supporting a small indie dev, charitable organization, local mom 'n pop shop or friend, you're giving money to a multimillion dollar corporation whose only objective is make more money. If you think they've made a great product and they deserve it, go on and buy it, otherwise jump ship. It's that simple.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> PSN would give me a bunch of indies I bought super cheap for PC a long time ago.  I might not play them a ton, but online-enabled NES games are still more of an appealing novelty than that.



I mean, sure, I'm glad that contrary to what I heard, they can actually be kept on your person (on the Switch), I just, well, wish there were more consoles, at least, Snes games, you know?


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> It is nice to be loyal to a company, but there are _*limits*._


There are limits, but $20/year isn't even remotely pushing those limits.  I make about six times that every week in tips alone.



the_randomizer said:


> I mean, sure, I'm glad that contrary to what I heard, they can actually be kept on your person (on the Switch), I just, well, wish there were more consoles, at least, Snes games, you know?


Can't disagree there, certain SNES games I'd love to play online.  We can't rule it out as a possibility in the future either, though.  It's not like the hardware is a limiter.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There are limits, but $20/year isn't even remotely pushing those limits.  I make about six times that every week in tips alone.


I don't know why you keep bringing this "Muh money!! It don't cost noffin!!" point up. No one is disputing that it is cheaper than alternatives. Anyone can afford $20 a year, this is not the problem being presented.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> I don't know why you keep bringing this "Muh money!! It don't cost noffin!!" point up. No one is disputing that it is cheaper than alternatives. Anyone can afford $20 a year, this is not the problem being presented.


The worst part is that they keep using the price point as an argument


----------



## CaptainSodaPop (Sep 18, 2018)

Now they are trolling at this point.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> I don't know why you keep bringing this "Muh money!! It don't cost noffin!!" point up. No one is disputing that it is cheaper than alternatives. Anyone can afford $20 a year, this is not the problem being presented.


Please clarify the problem being presented, then.  It's a bit late to complain about being charged for online console play.  If people had been more vocal about it with XBL and PSN then perhaps we wouldn't be in this position with Nintendo.  There's not much point in reflecting on what might've been, though.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Please clarify the problem being presented, then.  It's a bit late to complain about being charged for online console play.


The problem(s) have been stated and reiterated multiple times, feel free to look at one of the other 20+ pages of this thread.



Xzi said:


> If people had been more vocal about it with XBL and PSN then perhaps we wouldn't be in this position with Nintendo.


Points have been made previously in this thread relating to these services as well. I personally have not contributed to the use of services such as XBL and PSN, and I will continue not to do so.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> The problem(s) have been stated and reiterated multiple times, feel free to look at one of the other 20+ pages of this thread.


No thank you, I was more interested in what you and DeslotICL were presenting as "problems."  So far all I've got is that paying for an online service I intend to use makes me a "conformist."  I'm sure the high school me would be absolutely devastated to hear that. 



Huntereb said:


> Points have been made previously in this thread relating to these services as well. I personally have not contributed to the use of services such as XBL and PSN, and I will continue not to do so.


That's perfectly fine with me.  It's not like I wouldn't have preferred PSN and Switch online staying free too.  Again, the only reason I'm willing to pony up for Switch online is the price.  $40 or $60 a year would 100% be a deal-breaker without a lot more features, and probably then even still.  OTOH, if paid PSN had launched at $20/year, I probably would've subscribed even despite having interest in approximately zero online Playstation games.  1/3rd the price of the competition is always tempting no matter what product we're discussing.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> No thank you, I was more interested in what you and DeslotICL were presenting as "problems."  So far all I've got is that paying for an online service I intend to use makes me a "conformist."  I'm sure the high school me would be absolutely devastated to hear that.
> 
> 
> That's perfectly fine with me.  It's not like I wouldn't have preferred PSN and Switch online staying free too.  Again, the only reason I'm willing to pony up for Switch online is the price.  $40 or $60 a year would 100% be a deal-breaker without a lot more features, and probably then even still.


Forgive me for my not so good english, but i already presented some of the problems. The main issue is regarding the online infrastructure being exactly the same before being a paid service. The point isnt that it is still cheaper than the competition, but the fact that they are charing you for the SAME experience. The same, laggy, p2p experience. It doesnt justifies the price point.

Next we have the lack of features that have been available back then in 1999. Where is the ability to chat with the console? To create groups? To call them? To invite them? To add friends the normal way searching for a tag and not for friend codes... 

Then we gave the nes titles... Well, really? Are nes games really justificable for a service like this? 

They have presented to you mediocre features that doesnt even deserve the 20 usd price tag. This thing ahould be 10 bucks a year at best.


----------



## godreborn (Sep 18, 2018)

the Switch Online jokes never get old.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> No thank you, I was more interested in what you and DeslotICL were presenting as "problems."  So far all I've got is that paying for an online service I intend to use makes me a "conformist."  I'm sure the high school me would be absolutely devastated to hear that.


Within the last two pages I've stated my stance on the subject, I don't see any reason for you to continue interacting with this thread if you don't feel like it's worth the effort to glance back a couple pages.



Xzi said:


> $40 or $60 a year would 100% be a deal-breaker without a lot more features, and probably then even still.


$60 a year?! I make that in tips alone! That's nothing!


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> Forgive me for my not so good english, but i already presented some of the problems. The main issue is regarding the online infrastructure being exactly the same before being a paid service. The point isnt that it is still cheaper than the competition, but the fact that they are charing you for the SAME experience. The same, laggy, p2p experience. It doesnt justifies the price point.


On a 5GHz band I haven't had any issues with online play prior to the online service being implemented.  You're probably right about p2p still being featured heavily, but that's the case for a lot of games on XBL and PSN too, so no difference there.



DeslotlCL said:


> Next we have the lack of features that have been available back then in 1999. Where is the ability to chat with the console? To create groups? To call them? To invite them? To add friends the normal way searching for a tag and not for friend codes...


Not sure about adding friends, but the rest you can do with the app.  I've never been too big into voice chat myself, though, I'd rather play most online games without it.



DeslotlCL said:


> Then we gave the nes titles... Well, really? Are nes games really justificable for a service like this


For $1.60 a month I definitely wouldn't expect anything more than free SNES games at most.  Not the biggest fan of NES but Dr. Mario online seems like it'd be fun, among a few others.



DeslotlCL said:


> They have presented to you mediocre features that doesnt even deserve the 20 usd price tag. This thing ahould be 10 bucks a year at best.


This is entirely subjective.  If PSN/XBL were $30/year then yes, Nintendo would be forced to shift their pricing accordingly.



Huntereb said:


> $60 a year?! I make that in tips alone! That's nothing!


You make $60 per _year_ in tips?  Oof.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You make $60 per _year_ in tips?  Oof.


Meh, you know what I was getting at.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 18, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> Meh, you know what I was getting at.


$60/year isn't _terrible_ either, but only if there's enough content to justify the price.  Just about every online PS4 game is better played on PC without an online fee, and the free games they offer are cheap indies better bought individually if you have any interest in them.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There are limits, but $20/year isn't even remotely pushing those limits.  I make about six times that every week in tips alone.
> 
> 
> Can't disagree there, certain SNES games I'd love to play online.  We can't rule it out as a possibility in the future either, though.  It's not like the hardware is a limiter.



Yeah, the Switch is very powerful for emulation, but why they omitted Snes and other systems for launch is beyond me.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> $60/year isn't _terrible_ either, but only if there's enough content to justify the price.


Ding ding ding, we have a winner!



Huntereb said:


> ...$20 certainly isn't a lot, but for a service supplying multiplayer that has already been free for more than a decade and will continue to be peer-to-peer, purposefully discludes the ability to back up save data specifically to lock it behind a paywall, makes specific NES games (which can be played online in your browser or on your phone any time) playable for only a week offline, and brings only discounts on games rather than giving some out with the subscription like every other service available does, it just doesn't sound like a good deal.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> Ding ding ding, we have a winner!


Precisely, it takes a lot less content to justify $20/year than it does to justify $60/year.  Which is why having exclusives I want to play online is enough to push me over the edge for Switch.  There's nothing I want to play online on PS4 (that I can't also play on PC).


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2018)

Just because something is cheap, doesn't always necessarily indicate that it's good *shrug* .


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Precisely, it takes a lot less content to justify $20/year than it does to justify $60/year.  Which is why having exclusives I want to play online is enough to push me over the edge for Switch.  There's nothing I want to play online on PS4.


Not really the point I was making, but it's subjective to your opinion. I've seen a lot more criticism of the service than I expected, hopefully people will stick to their guns and get Nintendo's eyes open to the idea of making the service better in the future.

...Or better yet, cancel it.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Just because something is cheap, doesn't always necessarily indicate that it's good *shrug* .


I don't consider any paid online service to be a good thing, but it's just the reality of console gaming now.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I don't consider any paid online service to be a good thing, but it's just the reality of console gaming now.


The modern consumer, everyone. A cuckold to the corporations.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

Huntereb said:


> The modern consumer, everyone. A cuckold to the corporations.


Sure, in the sense that capitalism turns everyone into cuckolds for corporations.  Or do you live in a straw hut that you built yourself?


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I don't consider any paid online service to be a good thing, but it's just the reality of console gaming now.



Even worse is that there are a lot of sycophants and enablers out there for this.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Even worse is that there are a lot of sycophants and enablers out there for this.


Yeah, it was the XB360 generation that sealed our fate.  If only Sony had used more standardized hardware in the PS3, then maybe it wouldn't have been so overpriced and people would've flocked to the free online.


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Yeah, it was the XB360 generation that sealed our fate.  If only Sony had used more standardized hardware in the PS3, then maybe it wouldn't have been so overpriced and people would've flocked to the free online.



I'm just, ugh, gonna try out the trial period at least and make my judgment then.


----------



## Huntereb (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Sure, in the sense that capitalism turns everyone into cuckolds for corporations.  Or do you live in a straw hut that you built yourself?


I buy products that are equal the value I offer for them, not "Just because that's how it is". If people work together in capitalism, corporations can be forced to create and do what we want. Eg; not settling for dogshit because "Well, that's how it is so oh well!".


----------



## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2018)

Well, I mean, I'm glad that I don't have to pay for VC-like games, now, whether or not we can keep them "forever" without being forced to delete them or lose them, that may mitigate my doubts.


----------



## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm just, ugh, gonna try out the trial period at least and make my judgment then.


Certainly I'm not suggesting anybody buy it who doesn't see the value in it, but from my point of view the cost is justified when comparing it to the competition.  Particularly if there are any Nintendo IPs you like to play online regularly.  Smash has been my favorite fighting series since N64, so playing Ultimate online is essentially a must for me.



Huntereb said:


> I buy products that are equal the value I offer for them, not "Just because that's how it is". If people work together in capitalism, corporations can be forced to create and do what we want. Eg; not settling for dogshit because "Well, that's how it is so oh well!".


It's fine if you don't see the same value in it that I do, but pretending a boycott would do anything at this point is fairly naive.  Paid online for Nintendo was inevitable the second people started paying for PSN without much fuss.


----------



## Skeet1983 (Sep 19, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Well, I mean, I'm glad that I don't have to pay for VC-like games, now, whether or not we can keep them "forever" without being forced to delete them or lose them, that may mitigate my doubts.



Um, I don't think we can keep the games forever. If you are talking about the NES games that come with Nintendo Online. Here is what I read, according to nintendolife.com:

*What happens to the NES games if I cancel my subscription?*
As far as we understand it, you can only play these NES games as long as you have an active subscription. The moment your subscription ends, you'll lose access to them.

Even active subscribers will have to "check in" with their console online once per week or they'll lose the ability to play them. This allows Nintendo to verify that you have an active subscription.

Personally, I think this sucks.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2018)

Skeet1983 said:


> Um, I don't think we can keep the games forever. If you are talking about the NES games that come with Nintendo Online. Here is what I read, according to nintendolife.com:
> 
> *What happens to the NES games if I cancel my subscription?*
> As far as we understand it, you can only play these NES games as long as you have an active subscription. The moment your subscription ends, you'll lose access to them.
> ...



Indeed, I hope someone someday cracks the DRM and allows us to keep them forever.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I don't consider any paid online service to be a good thing, but it's just the reality of console gaming now.


You seem very fatalistic. I am not sure that is a good thing. I am certainly not inclined to roll over and take it, particularly not with something so blatantly a cash grab.


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## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> You seem very fatalistic. I am not sure that is a good thing. I am certainly not inclined to roll over and take it, particularly not with something so blatantly a cash grab.


Not really, it's not as though I'd tolerate year over year price increases or something like that.  As I've said, people can determine the value of the individual online services for themselves, but that's often going to be limited to the one console/platform they own.  Not a lot of people (on consoles) will pass on all of these services and stick to offline-only, but that's always an option too.  Just don't expect it to be enough to make capitalism suddenly change course.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 19, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Not really, it's not as though I'd tolerate year over year price increases or something like that.  As I've said, people can determine the value of the individual online services for themselves, but that's often going to be limited to the one console/platform they own.  Not a lot of people (on consoles) will pass on all of these services and stick to offline-only, but that's always an option too.  Just don't expect it to be enough to make capitalism suddenly change course.



People not buying a product has made people rethink things before.

Anyway I am struggling to the value in paying for things which have demonstrably been able to be done for free for decades, something which is only getting cheaper and easier to run and what miniscule costs there are able to be spread out over more users too. They try to offer a few enticements but it is things we have seen before done better by them and by those messing around in their free time, or again done not only for free but actually considered basic functionality in the past.

To open my wallet you have to offer me something, and not just a product of your walled garden that I am already trapped in. To keep being told I am just being cheap rankles somewhat, especially when those doing it seem to be ignoring that something is infinitely more than nothing. It would almost be easier to swallow if someone told me it was a charitable action that I am doing (or not doing as the case may be).


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## Xzi (Sep 19, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Anyway I am struggling to the value in paying for things which have demonstrably been able to be done for free for decades, something which is only getting cheaper and easier to run and what miniscule costs there are able to be spread out over more users too.


That's largely the same argument that's been made against any paid console online subscription since XBL.  It hasn't stopped it from growing and subsequently spreading to the competition.  I don't mind at all if Switch online has a low adopt rate, because that would push Nintendo to offer more benefits.  I don't believe they'll re-think the whole subscription service, though.


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