# Writer's Guild list of best TV



## Chary (Jun 6, 2013)

A few days ago, the Writers Guild of America made a list of the 101 best TV shows of all time. Many good shows made the cut, and some were neglected entirely. I created this thread as a way to discuss your personal options on the list. Do you agree with most of the choices? Or did your favorite show not make it onto the list? I, myself, don't really care about the Writers Guild's opinions, but I'd like to see a discussion upon the choices they made.

Here is the list:


Spoiler



1. The Sopranos
2. Seinfeld
3. The Twilight Zone (1959)
4. All in the Family
5. M*A*S*H
6. The Mary Tyler Moore Show
7. Mad Men
8. Cheers
9. The Wire
10. The West Wing
11. The Simpsons
12. I Love Lucy
13. Breaking Bad
14. The Dick Van Dyke Show
15. Hill Street Blues
16. Arrested Development
17. The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
18. Six Feet Under
19. Taxi
20. The Larry Sanders Show
21. 30 Rock
22. Friday Night Lights
23. Frasier
24. Friends
25. Saturday Night Live
26. The X-Files
27. Lost
28. ER
29. The Cosby Show
30. Curb Your Enthusiasm
31. The Honeymooners
32. Deadwood
33. Star Trek
34. Modern Family
35. Twin Peaks
36. NYPD Blue
37. The Carol Burnett Show
38. Battlestar Galactica (2005)
39. Sex & The City
40. Game of Thrones
41. (tie) The Bob Newhart Show; Your Show of Shows
43. (tie) Downton Abbey; Law & Order; Thirtysomething
46. (tie) Homicide: Life on the Street; St. Elsewhere
48. Homeland
49. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
50. (tie) The Colbert Report; The Good Wife; The Office (UK)
53. Northern Exposure
54. The Wonder Years
55. L.A. Law
56. Sesame Street
57. Columbo
58. (tie) Fawlty Towers; The Rockford Files
60. (tie) Freaks and Geeks; Moonlighting
62. Roots
63. (tie) Everybody Loves Raymond; South Park
65. Playhouse 90
66. (tie) Dexter; The Office (US)
68. My So-Called Life
69. Golden Girls
70. The Andy Griffith Show
71. (tie) 24; Roseanne; The Shield
74. (tie) House; Murphy Brown
76. (tie) Barney Miller; I, Claudius
78. The Odd Couple
79. (tie) Alfred Hitchcock Presents; Monty Python's Flying Circus; Star Trek: The Next Generation; Upstairs, Downstairs
83. Get Smart
84. (tie) The Defenders; Gunsmoke
86. (tie) Justified; Sgt. Bilko (The Phil Silvers Show)
88. Band of Brothers
89. Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In
90. The Prisoner
91. (tie) Absolutely Fabulous (UK); The Muppet Show
93. Boardwalk Empire
94. Will & Grace
95. Family Ties
96. (tie) Lonesome Dove; Soap
98. (tie) The Fugitive; Late Night with David Letterman; Louie
101. Oz


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## FAST6191 (Jun 6, 2013)

A bit US centric (possibly also a bit old white TV/film buff centric) and several of those may or may not stand the test of time (or might not stand to be rewatched now -- I thought 24 was jingoistic nonsense but halfway watchable, rewatching is not going to happen) though such things are to be expected really, I have seen a grand total of 15 of those shows enough to say I have. A few more I have caught odd episodes here and there for and several others I would seriously disagree with their being put on the list (though I do not care so much for a lot of comedy) and the order is a strange one.

Following with the US centric thing and limiting it to US shows I am not sure what I would add... possibly NCIS and a couple of the law and order spinoffs depending upon the series.


Now if they were to make a timeline/family tree type thing similar to some of the ones I have seen for some types of games I would be quite interested. I would probably also spend a lot of time laughing at the silly censorship policies but I do that routinely as it is.


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## Gahars (Jun 6, 2013)

> 66. Dexter


 
lolokay

I loved Dexter in the beginning, but throwing it on a list of best tv after the last 2 seasons (if we're being generous)? Mighty suspect. Plus, putting Star Trek (which had a lot of awful episodes mixed in with the classics) above the vastly superior, much more consistent TNG? And only putting Louie at #99? Seriously?

Plus, this contains a lot of shows that haven't concluded (some of which have no end in sight). Shouldn't we be judging the entirety of a series, and not just a portion?


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## natkoden (Jun 6, 2013)

lol @ lost


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## Chary (Jun 7, 2013)

Heck, they've got shows on that list that have hardly been currently on for 2+ years. And I think they're giving Mad Men way too much credit. Number 7? Of all time? No way.


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## KingdomBlade (Jun 8, 2013)

Chary said:


> Heck, they've got shows on that list that have hardly been currently on for 2+ years. And I think they're giving Mad Men way too much credit. Number 7? Of all time? No way.


 
Well, to be fair, Mad Men is pretty fucking genius and incredibly consistent. If there was anything we have one right now that could match The Sopranos' level of brilliance, in terms of acting, production, and writing, it'd probably be Mad Men. One of the main problems with "best of" lists, be it movies or games or music or tv, is that they almost deliberately ignore the present works of art and unconditionally favor those that have received "classic" status, regardless of the quality of present works. I appreciate them putting more modern shows like The Wire, Breaking Bad, or Mad Men in, because it's easy to see that in terms of narrative maturity, production, or acting, that they greatly surpass many of their predecessors.

I fully expect Homeland to go to the crapper, even after 2 breathtaking seasons. A lot of those shows have insanely inconsistent quality. Dexter, Modern Family, Lost, House, The Office (US) and maybe even Saturday Night Live, but I'm not going to debate that it doesn't deserve a spot since it's insanely influential. I think that the top choices (maybe up until 25, or SNL, I guess?) weren't chosen for quality, but for sheer impact and influence in the industry and the fact that their best moments are some of the best ever on TV. The humor of Friends, or the drama of Friday Night Lights, or the sketches from SNL, might be fairly populist and lowbrow, but you can't deny how impactful those three shows where. Shows like The Sopranos, M*A*S*H, Cheers, or The Dick Van Dyke show have achieved a legendary status that's undeniable.

Also, too little children's programming and animation. The Simpons, South Park, The Muppets, and Sesame Street seems really bare. Mister Roger's Neighborhood, Electric Company, Futurama, Looney Toons, The Flinstones, Family Guy (regardless of turning bad around the same time The Simpons did), Rocko's Modern Life, and maybe even The Tick all deserve places there, in my opinion.


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## Chary (Jun 8, 2013)

KingdomBlade said:


> Well, to be fair, Mad Men is pretty fucking genius and incredibly consistent. If there was anything we have one right now that could match The Sopranos' level of brilliance, in terms of acting, production, and writing, it'd probably be Mad Men. One of the main problems with "best of" lists, be it movies or games or music or tv, is that they almost deliberately ignore the present works of art and unconditionally favor those that have received "classic" status, regardless of the quality of present works. I appreciate them putting more modern shows like The Wire, Breaking Bad, or Mad Men in, because it's easy to see that in terms of narrative maturity, production, or acting, that they greatly surpass many of their predecessors.
> 
> I fully expect Homeland to go to the crapper, even after 2 breathtaking seasons. A lot of those shows have insanely inconsistent quality. Dexter, Modern Family, Lost, House, The Office (US) and maybe even Saturday Night Live, but I'm not going to debate that it doesn't deserve a spot since it's insanely influential. I think that the top choices (maybe up until 25, or SNL, I guess?) weren't chosen for quality, but for sheer impact and influence in the industry and the fact that their best moments are some of the best ever on TV. The humor of Friends, or the drama of Friday Night Lights, or the sketches from SNL, might be fairly populist and lowbrow, but you can't deny how impactful those three shows where. Shows like The Sopranos, M*A*S*H, Cheers, or The Dick Van Dyke show have achieved a legendary status that's undeniable.
> 
> Also, too little children's programming and animation. The Simpons, South Park, The Muppets, and Sesame Street seems really bare. Mister Roger's Neighborhood, Electric Company, Futurama, Looney Toons, The Flinstones, Family Guy (regardless of turning bad around the same time The Simpons did), Rocko's Modern Life, and maybe even The Tick all deserve places there, in my opinion.



While I admit that Mad Men is an amazing show, I feel like it should be somewhere in the top 20's, not 7th place.

And now that you've mentioned Looney Tunes, I've noticed that Looney Tunes is not even on the list. I am appalled at that. Looney Tunes is a classic show, that almost everybody has watched. It's a cartoon from the 1930's, that still manages to make people laugh, to this day. 

I also agree with the fact that some shows in the top ten were chosen for the impact they've left on the viewers. The Simpsons affected a whole generation, in the 90's, with its great comedic writing. Twilight Zone was the first of its kind, back in the 50's. All in the Family did multiple revolutionary things, that still affect the industry today.

I think for a show to be on this list, it needs to be timeless. I can still watch I Love Lucy. The humor in the show is still watchable, 60 years after it has aired. Will shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm or Game of Thrones still be good when we look back on it, 20 years later?


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## Gahars (Jun 8, 2013)

Chary said:


> And now that you've mentioned Looney Tunes, I've noticed that Looney Tunes is not even on the list. I am appalled at that. Looney Tunes is a classic show, that almost everybody has watched. It's a cartoon from the 1930's, that still manages to make people laugh, to this day.


 

But those classic shorts aren't from television. They were theatrically released, playing just before the feature film. They've been rerun on television, sure, but that doesn't make them a television show.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jun 8, 2013)

Sex in the City beats Game of Thrones?

Really?

_Really?_


EDIT: Also Star Trek beating TNG is kinda laughable. Star Trek TOS had some good episodes but also its share of shit ones and TNG in general had better writing.


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## Chary (Jun 8, 2013)

Gahars said:


> But those classic shorts aren't from television. They were theatrically released, playing just before the feature film. They've been rerun on television, sure, but that doesn't make them a television show.


I was thinking of that exact same thing, but there was a "Looney Tunes Roadrunner Hour", back in the 70's. Wouldn't that count?

Edit: The Simpsons were also shorts, that were aired on the Tracy Ulman show.


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## Gahars (Jun 8, 2013)

Chary said:


> I was thinking of that exact same thing, but there was a "Looney Tunes Roadrunner Hour", back in the 70's. Wouldn't that count?


 
If they just reaired old shorts, then it's still not new content produced for television. If they did produce new content, it wasn't the classic shorts that you're referring to. Either way, no, not really.



> Edit: The Simpsons were also shorts, that were aired on the Tracy Ulman show.


 

...And? The Simpsons was expanded into a full fledged show separate from the original shorts. The Looney Tunes brand has had that, too, but really, is anyone seriously going to suggest that Baby Looney Tunes or The Looney Tunes Show are worthy of a spot on this list?


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## KingdomBlade (Jun 9, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Sex in the City beats Game of Thrones?
> 
> Really?
> 
> ...


 
Sex and the City is, bear with me here because I know that it is DEFINITELY not the kind of show gamers really like, a brilliant show. It's biting, it's hilarious, it had really good writing and acting, and it is extremely influential on current comedic television. It being better or worse than Game of Thrones is debatable, but what I do know is that Sex & the City was incredibly consistent and it was a very important piece of television and it still is. It was probably one of the first few shows at the time that freely explored relevant and modern issues from a feminine perspective and that highlighted female sexuality. Like I said, I feel that the list is more about influence and impact on the industry rather than actual quality. Sex & the City had both. Game of Thrones' impact is yet to be seen. Maybe in a few years, we'll see.



Chary said:


> While I admit that Mad Men is an amazing show, I feel like it should be somewhere in the top 20's, not 7th place.
> 
> I think for a show to be on this list, it needs to be timeless. I can still watch I Love Lucy. The humor in the show is still watchable, 60 years after it has aired. Will shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm or Game of Thrones still be good when we look back on it, 20 years later?


 
I don't think so. I don't think I've seen a show with as great a mix of writing, production, acting, and narrative and emotional maturity as Mad Men since The Sopranos. I think it became the next natural high point of television after The Sopranos.

Well, here's the thing. Shows have shifted from stories that lied within their own universe to stories that directly correlate to modern life. So our shows are more of a representation of our times than anything else. Game of Thrones is a landmark in production for our time. Curb Your Enthusiasm and other comedic shows greatly rely upon current cultural tropes and play upon that for humor. They're not made to be timeless, I think. For example, Community's humor is going to be almost entirely incomprehensible to a viewing audience in 20 years since it relies on current pop culture and media tropes.


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## Gore (Jun 9, 2013)

48. Homeland
101. Oz

Yeah, that makes sense. 
Except Homeland is fucking retarded and Oz is amazing.
I don't really know half of these shows so obviously I couldn't write my own list but I disagree fervently!


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## KingdomBlade (Jun 9, 2013)

Gore said:


> 48. Homeland
> 101. Oz
> 
> Yeah, that makes sense.
> ...


 
... Its Emmy's and highly positive critical reception and the fact that it's Obama's favorite show beg to disagree. I mean, you're free to state your opinion, but it's hardly the general consensus.


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## Ethevion (Jun 10, 2013)

The Simpsons, Friends, and Everybody Loves Raymond is all I like on that list.


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