# did piracy really kill the dreamcast?



## CJL18 (Apr 19, 2010)

i know this has been discussed so many times, but makes you wonder did piracy really kill the dreamcast?


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## JohnLoco (Apr 19, 2010)

Didnt they kill themselves with those fancy expensive CDs to start with?


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## Cyan (Apr 19, 2010)

Isn't the DS more pirated than the dreamcast was ? though, it didn't die. Piracy has nothing to do with success.


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## camurso_ (Apr 19, 2010)

PS2 killed Dreamcast


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## Rosales (Apr 19, 2010)

It contributed.
The DS is a very kid friendly system, and a lot of parents are against pirating, so they buy the games for their kids. Kids is how Nintendo makes most of their money. Then Nintendo has a lot of "Nintendo purist fanboys" who will buy anything that says Nintendo on it.
Moving on topic. Yes the piracy contributed as I said. But there's two factors that really killed the DC.

1) DVD's. The lack of DVD support really killed the system's use. Meanwhile people who waited for a PS2 got both a high-tech system capable of much more and a DVD player.

2)Sega's infamously bad marketing. It seems mid-genesis/mega-drive's lifespan, they sort of... forgot how to advertise. The advertising wasn't nearly as bad as the Sega Saturn, another good system kept in the shadows. But it wasn't good. The PS1 had been excelling in advertising, beating all of the console competition before the DC. In the end, Sega could of done better marketing.

Long story short; Sega killed the Dreamcast.


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## BlueStar (Apr 19, 2010)

One thing about Dreamcast piracy was that it was so easy to play  back-ups and the exploits to do this were found pretty early in its life.  Yeah, DS piracy isn't exactly rocket science, but you have to buy a card, put firmware on, keep it updates etc - you basically have to make a concious decision to pirate and buy a device to enable it.  Plus when I first got my SuperCard SD it was too much of a ballache for most gamers to bother with and the DS built up a solid userbase before the R4 came along.Same with PS2 chips.  With the Dreamcast anyone who had one, even the parents/kids who make up the usually solid userbase of people too daunted by technology to pirate stuff didn't have to have their system long before they found themselves being offered games for a few quid on market stalls or from slightly more savvy friends, without any of the usual stuff about having to give their machine to someone to fit a dodgy bit of kit into it first.


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## Rosales (Apr 19, 2010)

Well it is as you said. With DC pirating, the only thing you had to buy was a fat stack of CD's. With DS? Gotta pick the right cart (Like I picked a DSTT). PS2? Right modchip, piracy method, or whatever. Same even applied to Sega's prior system, Saturn; you had to buy NOT ONLY A CERTAIN FUCKING MODEL but had to buy a modchip.
Still; the internet wasn't as "in" back then. Back then piracy wasn't as much of an issue. Had the DC been released EXACTLY how it was back then today? Piracy would of completely killed it.  As I keep saying.

Sega killed the Dreamcast.


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## thaddius (Apr 19, 2010)

Rosales said:
			
		

> Long story short; Sega killed the Dreamcast.


Agreed.

People already distrusted Sega for the blunder that was releasing the Saturn soon after the 32X. And the Saturn's surprise release date didn't help matters.

The fact that the DC could played burned games right out of the box in an age when everyone had a CD burner was not great. I think piracy was a major problem, but most people attribute it to the fact that the PS2 was coming out soon.


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## Cyan (Apr 19, 2010)

What I remember is that Internet wasn't that spread while Dreamcast was out. I never managed to pirate it correctly (I couldn't find the Games to be copied, and my utopia didn't work correctly (maybe a bad copy)).
With the DS, I converted everyone I know to use a flashcard (up to 54 years old collegue and her dad (~80)), internet is everywhere and the roms are easy to find.

I think there's a lot more possibilities to pirate with DS than Dreamcast had.


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## r3dfaction (Apr 19, 2010)

Rosales said:
			
		

> Sega's infamously bad marketing. It seems mid-genesis/mega-drive's lifespan, they sort of... forgot how to advertise. The advertising wasn't nearly as bad as the Sega Saturn, another good system kept in the shadows. But it wasn't good. The PS1 had been excelling in advertising, beating all of the console competition before the DC. In the end, Sega could of done better marketing.


I agree, it was poorly mentioned in retails, and I think you forgot that they released the system too early which made an impact as well.


I think the dreamcast would've been a success, if it was properly advertised.


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## Arm73 (Apr 19, 2010)

I agree with everything so far, included that Sega ultimately killed the Dreamcast with bad design decision and poor marketing, and the PS2 with DVD player wasn't far away....
That said, I still play my DC, it sits on top of my Desktop PC and is constantly hooked to my monitor with a VGA box.
I wish I could do that natively with my Wii !
I don't think I will ever quit the DC altogether, there are too many arcade-like games that can be played over and over again for a quick rush...( even Ikaruga feels better on the DC + computer monitor then on the GC ) all I need to do is switch my monitor input and I'm set..... 
Too bad they never accomplished a way to use a hard drive with the DC ( sort of USB Loader for Wii ) , that would have been awesome and I bet that loading times would have been super duper fast.....


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## Bloodgod (Apr 19, 2010)

-no 3rd party support
-PS2 was being released "Soon"
-No DVD drive
-Piracy 

All in that order. BUT what really killed it was Sega giving up on it. They stopped production all together. Consumers eventually lost trust and took the jump to the PS2 camp.

G4's Icon "The History Of Sega Dreamcast" if you got 16mins to waste, use these links. Def a great watch if your a DC fan 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3NfgF08EQE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e27kjhZXQqE

Side Note. I have 2 DCs sitting at home. Problem is I lost all my "games" I recently got from the interwebs. *facepalm* miss placed my cd folder


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## BORTZ (Apr 19, 2010)

Arm73 said:
			
		

> I agree with everything so far, included that Sega ultimately killed the Dreamcast with bad design decision and poor marketing, and the PS2 with DVD player wasn't far away....


This


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## OuTee (Apr 19, 2010)

Cyan said:
			
		

> Isn't the DS more pirated than the dreamcast was ? though, it didn't die. Piracy has nothing to do with success.


PSX1 was also pirated everywhere and it did great so i just dont get the "piracy is killing us" stuff...


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## ganons (Apr 19, 2010)

considering the fact that dc required hardly any effort to pirate. self boot disc or a boot cd. it was piratable out of the box


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## Rosales (Apr 19, 2010)

PS2 is a shining example of shining over piracy. The PS2 has piracy everywhere. Sure you have to mod the motherfucker, but the point is, piracy didn't kill it. Nothing did, nothing could. The PS2 STILL isn't dead yet, and has been around during a day of huge piracy. And as said, so has the DS. If piracy hurts any current system, it's the PSP in America and Europe. I have to be the only fucker I know that'll actually buy a PSP game anymore, it's fucking rediculous, it really is. EVEN THEN the PSP is healthier than the DC ever was.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 19, 2010)

The reason the dreamcast is dead is because of the release of the PS2. All of the 3rd party developers went "fuck your shit" to the Dreamcast and headed to the PS2.


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## _Chaz_ (Apr 19, 2010)

I thought it went for a while in Japan...


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## Maz7006 (Apr 19, 2010)

camurso_ said:
			
		

> PS2 killed Dreamcast
> QUOTE(Rosales @ Apr 19 2010, 03:48 PM) Sega killed the Dreamcast.



Both of these at the same time

Dreamcast was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and had shit to offer when it came to games. May get a lot of hate for this, but it was complete and utter fail to start off with. Developers just saw much more money and opportunity with the PS2, simple as that.


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## TrolleyDave (Apr 21, 2010)

Like Maz said, Sega and the launch of the PS2 contributed towards the demise of the Dreamcast.  Piracy may have been a factor but it was a very small one.  Sega's claims that piracy killed it were just a lazy ego protecting denial that they fucked up.  Not everybody had high speed internet back then and very few people would be willing to spend a week (with call charges as well) downloading a game.  It would have been cheaper to pick it up second hand.

One of the major contributing factors to the death of the Dreamcast was how they pissed off alot of developers when the canned the Saturn.  They killed it off pretty early in it's life and forced a bunch of developers (like EA) to part ways with them.  Hence the reason there were no really decent 3rd party sports titles.  In a way you could say the Sega Saturn killed the Dreamcast as well.

The PS2 was also a huge contributing factor.  Alot of Sony fanboys back then were rabid, and I mean proper foamers.  They made Xbox360 fanboys look intelligent.  So many of them refused to accept that any other console would be good.  The amount of times I heard "Nope, I'm waiting for the PS2 cos I know it's going to be the best console ever" was ridiculous.


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## chartube12 (Apr 21, 2010)

the old about dreamcast thing on g4 tv had info on this. They lost sales in japan to the ps2. The PS2 was Japan's first real afordable DVD player. By not including dvd play back, there sales dropped like a rock. This proves graphic are not everything. For the most part dreamcast had great graphics for the time.

The whole thing makes me wonder. If nintendo wouldnt of included internet support, wouldn't it have sold as well?


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## yuyuyup (Apr 21, 2010)

hell no


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## Finishoff (Apr 21, 2010)

No the other gaming system did.


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## UltraMagnus (Apr 21, 2010)

Piracy never killed anything, that is just capitalist propaganda.


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## impur1ty (Apr 21, 2010)

Bloodgod said:
			
		

> -no 3rd party support



Very wrong, outside of EA, there was tons of 3rd party support.



PS2 killed the Dreamcast. Simple.


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## chartube12 (Apr 21, 2010)

DreamCast had the most 3rd party support of all the console. Even more so than  the gbc. PS2's dvd ablity killed dreamcast sales.


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## Njrg (Apr 21, 2010)

Dreamcast was destined to fail.


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## fgghjjkll (Apr 21, 2010)

Sega still makes the Arcade machines we play on today though. Being back on topic, Sega really was selling technology the was possible earlier. When the released it, it was too late. Sure they could sell it still if they had good marketers and advertisers (Like the Gamecube. It still sorta counts as a success due to exclusive titles and the homebrew scene but i think the lack of native dvd playback that PS2 had let it down a little and the fucked up netplay because GCN used mini dvd and had no ethernet port.) Dreamcast has great online features however.


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## MMX (Apr 21, 2010)

I think bad marketing, the failure of the Saturn and not having EA killed it.  They had neither FIFA nor Pro Evolution Soccer on it - a major mistake in europe.


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## antimatter (Apr 21, 2010)

well... creating backups wasnt as easy as everyone is saying in this thread. you had to have that special adapter in your dreamcast to actually transfer the "GD-ROMS" content to your computer. Which took ages if i remember correctly, cause it was sending the data over the modem port. The burning of the iso you get can be done by an idiot though. however, the internet was pretty different 10 years ago. wasnt that easy to find isos of already converted games. ultimately it wasnt the piracy, but the other consoles that killed the DC imo.


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## r3dfaction (Apr 21, 2010)

People.... stop thinking that pirate/warez users are billions of people, there just a couple million people who download games (not sure about movies and PC programs), let me clarify this, frequently (such as everyone who visits this site). Not everyone pirates games, most people don't even know what an emulator or a .rar extension even is. Let alone download games (specially ISO's).



			
				UltraMagnus said:
			
		

> Piracy never killed anything, that is just capitalist propaganda.


Agreed


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## Assassination (Apr 21, 2010)

No it didnt...


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## prowler (Apr 21, 2010)

r3dfaction said:
			
		

> People.... stop thinking that pirate/warez users are billions of people, *there just a couple million people who download games* (not sure about movies and PC programs), let me clarify this, frequently (such as everyone who visits this site). Not everyone pirates games, most people don't even know what an emulator or a .rar extension even is. Let alone down download games (specially ISO's).


And then there is others that pay for people to do it for them.


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## r3dfaction (Apr 21, 2010)

Prowler485 said:
			
		

> r3dfaction said:
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Exactly why I had to clarify :look at Bold:


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## Arm73 (Apr 21, 2010)

r3dfaction said:
			
		

> Prowler485 said:
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Yeah...think about the current health care system in the USA..........the vast majority of people have a private health insurance, which pays for nearly everything, and then there is a minority of people ( like immigrants ) that can't benefit of that insurance.......
Now prices here if you go to a doctor are out of this word !
My brother went for a gastroscopy ( or whatever it's called ) without insurance and the doctor said it was gonna be like $ 1000 !
A simple check ( 5 minutes ) by a doctor can be like $ 300 and up !
So basically we are in this situation because people with insurance don't worry about it, so the doctors and hospitals charge whatever they want, and it's usually a lot more then it should be.....because ( I heard ) they take in account also those who don't have insurance and never pay their bills anyway ( like giving fake information , address and so on ).
So the point is that much like the health system, piracy gets off by millions of people that buy legitimate products.
The good overweights the bad IMO.


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## playallday (Apr 21, 2010)

If you ask me piracy has really only hurt the PC.


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## TrolleyDave (Apr 22, 2010)

Arctic said:
			
		

> If you ask me piracy has really only hurt the PC.



It badly affected the Amiga as well.  The claims that piracy killed the Amiga were exaggerated because it started to lose out to consoles like the MegaDrive and SNES, but near the end of it's lifespan piracy was like a plague.  Similar to how the DS is now.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 22, 2010)

I loved the Dreamcast! Until Sonic Adventure came out on the Gamecube I didn't need that system anymore.


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