# Opinions re: ANTIFA?



## Hanafuda (Oct 8, 2018)

This isn't peaceful protesting, isn't anti-nazi, isn't civil, isn't right. And this is just the most recent video I've seen like this and probably you too.

Why does anyone defend these people??? They should be treated as rioters / domestic terrorists.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 8, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> This isn't peaceful protesting, isn't anti-nazi, isn't civil, isn't right. And this is just the most recent video I've seen like this and probably you too.
> 
> Why does anyone defend these people??? They should be treated as rioters / domestic terrorists.



Antifa are losers who like to try to take peoples rights away... the commie pricks.


----------



## Plstic (Oct 8, 2018)

Why are they shouting that they are white males when they themselves are white males?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 8, 2018)

Plstic said:


> Why are they shouting that they are white males when they themselves are white males?


Exactly!


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 8, 2018)

It seems you mean the modern incarnation and for the sake of the pedants* the general west coast US and New York approaches.

*there are those that will tell you it is a thing you do rather than a thing you belong to. At a very technical level this could be true, and amusingly on a practical one this could be as well (you frequently see amusing comments where they only learn of things because they follow people they don't like -- while I am no fan of taking orders I still see the value of a command structure).

For the most part people with an imaginary enemy and the inability, and perhaps unwillingness, to control the violent shithead element of their crowd. I did wonder if it was tightly edited stuff I saw so I watched hours of raw footage instead, still left with the same opinion.

I have seen their "manual" and philosophy, even seen those that think it good try to explain it. There are some good ideas, even beyond "blind pig/broken clock" but there are any number of aspects which depart from things I would consider baseline civility and as such those good things are negated and then some. The authoritarian and anti speech/discussion bent really serving to annoy.

As such very much a net negative in the world.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 9, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> It seems you mean the modern incarnation and for the sake of the pedants* the general west coast US and New York approaches.




Yes, I intended the current-day "movement." I'm aware it goes back to the 30's, when "the Nazis" was actually a thing that resulted in mass genocide, not feelings hurt on Twitter.


----------



## DarthDub (Oct 9, 2018)

Domestic terrorism.


----------



## DeadlyFoez (Oct 9, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> Yes, I intended the current-day "movement." I'm aware it goes back to the 30's, when "the Nazis" was actually a thing that resulted in mass genocide, not feelings hurt on Twitter.


I am currently doing a "movement" as well.

That is my opinion of antifa... absolute shit.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

This is just as pointless as asking what people's opinions are on ISIS or neo-nazis.  I'd hope you're not going to see a lot of support for extremism regardless of the political/religious ideology behind it.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

They are just extremist fanatics.
They might be not as well-funded as ISIS, but they are the same shit. And if they got the same funding probably they will be as hurtful also.
The same goes for PETA and the like.
All of them terrorists!


----------



## Reploid (Oct 9, 2018)

Good, let's destroy another gaming site


----------



## enarky (Oct 9, 2018)

Congratulations on falling for rightwing whataboutism. Again. Why do I open these politic topics every time, anyways?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

enarky said:


> Congratulations on falling for rightwing whataboutism. Again. Why do I open these politic topics every time, anyways?


Well, perhaps just to post a comment seeking attention. At least that's what the evidence leads me to believe.


----------



## barronwaffles (Oct 9, 2018)

People (destructively) grasping at something to *belong* to in societies that are becoming increasingly cold and isolated.

Accelerationism in action.

It's pretty neat, can't wait for someone to bring a gun.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

barronwaffles said:


> People (destructively) grasping at something to *belong* to in societies that are becoming increasingly cold and isolated.


Sad, but sounds like a probable motive.


----------



## Viri (Oct 9, 2018)

I don't think anyone likes them.

My only question about the video is, where the hell are the police?! Why are domestic terrorist directing traffic and blocking roads in your city?


----------



## yuyuyup (Oct 9, 2018)

People worried about antifa are the same people who are fine with the government permanently orphaning hundreds of migrant children.  Antifa is such a nothing, there are so many headlines with alt-right violence, and barely ANY from the antifa side, it's an absolute joke.  I'm far more worried about your average gun-toting woman-hating Trump supporter going nuts, happens twenty times more often than ANYTHING from the left.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

yuyuyup said:


> People worried about antifa are the same people who are fine with the government permanently orphaning hundreds of migrant children.


That's not true at all.


----------



## barronwaffles (Oct 9, 2018)

yuyuyup said:


> People worried about antifa are the same people who are fine with the government permanently orphaning hundreds of migrant children.  Antifa is such a nothing, there are so many headlines with alt-right violence, and barely ANY from the antifa side, it's an absolute joke.  I'm far more worried about your average gun-toting woman-hating Trump supporter going nuts, happens twenty times more often than ANYTHING from the left.
> 
> EDIT: that video is fake as hell, I'll bet money on it.  FAKE



This is what I like to see - people painting the _opposition_ as cartoon villains. We definitely need more of it.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> This isn't peaceful protesting, isn't anti-nazi, isn't civil, isn't right. And this is just the most recent video I've seen like this and probably you too.
> 
> Why does anyone defend these people??? They should be treated as rioters / domestic terrorists.




Antifa??? Let`s see...

Am I allowed to say we need a "final solution" for these idiots? I have plenty of propane.

Same for them momentum idiots.


----------



## Navonod (Oct 9, 2018)

yuyuyup said:


> People worried about antifa are the same people who are fine with the government permanently orphaning hundreds of migrant children.  Antifa is such a nothing, there are so many headlines with alt-right violence, and barely ANY from the antifa side, it's an absolute joke.  I'm far more worried about your average gun-toting woman-hating Trump supporter going nuts, happens twenty times more often than ANYTHING from the left.


I'll have to disagree. It's every other day some loony from the lift is attacking someone or trying to ruin lives with false accusations. Just recently some dude "fighting for women's rights" kicked a woman for disagreeing with abortions. I'm prochoice myself but I wont kick you for having the opposite opinion. Also those kids wouldn't be separated from their parents if those parents didn't break the law. When an American breaks a law they are separated from their kids to. And depending on the situation those kids are put in foster homes to.


----------



## enarky (Oct 9, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> Well, perhaps just to post a comment seeking attention. At least that's what the evidence leads me to believe.


I guess you're right about that. It's a bit like knocking on windows of Zoo animals. Most people know they shouldn't do it, but do it anyways.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Oct 9, 2018)

Sounds to me like you're mainly arguing against the right wing fantasy of Antifa.
Even with your more aggressive variant (a direct result of your also much more aggressive far right protesters) they're still the much smaller of two evils.
Even if you sprinkle in the x% of crazies you find in any group of people.

Also, if you don't like Antifa, solve your right nationalist problem.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DrGreed said:


> I'll have to disagree. It's every other day some loony from the lift is attacking someone or trying to ruin lives with false accusations. Just recently some dude "fighting for women's rights" kicked a woman for disagreeing with abortions. I'm prochoice myself but I wont kick you for having the opposite opinion. Also those kids wouldn't be separated from their parents if those parents didn't break the law. When an American breaks a law they are separated from their kids to. And depending on the situation those kids are put in foster homes to.



There's so much bs here.
Every day shit happens all over the place. People spraypaint synagogues, people attack  migrants, right wing facebook groups dox people on the left and send them death threats for weeks.

And no, while you're separated, you still have visitation rights. You can write letters, you can communnicate. You're not entirely separated from your children and family to the point where they can't even reunite you again. Separation is rarely an option taken when the childs life or health is in danger and the parents are the cause of that. And even then, in your system, hundreds of children die at home because child services don't do anything.
And crossing a border is not breaking the law. You need to cross a boarder to ask for refuge. It's how it works.


----------



## barronwaffles (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Also, if you don't like Antifa, solve your right nationalist problem.



Why? The last thing 'right nationalist' groups want (not the moronic neo-nazi caricatures you see plastered in news media)  is for Antifa to disappear - content like this is better propaganda then anything they could spin up internally.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

barronwaffles said:


> Why? The last thing 'right nationalist' groups want (not the moronic neo-nazi caricatures you see plastered in news media)  is for Antifa to disappear - content like this is better propaganda then anything they could spin up internally.


So I take it you are against nationalism then?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

enarky said:


> I guess you're right about that. It's a bit like knocking on windows of Zoo animals. Most people know they shouldn't do it, but do it anyways.


Yeah, and also in that case one will wonder if the animals knocking the window hold some kind of perversion and extract pleasure from annoying the animals being kept captive. Sure there is a reason for the repeated behavior.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Sounds to me like you're mainly arguing against the right wing fantasy of Antifa.
> Even with your more aggressive variant (a direct result of your also much more aggressive far right protesters) they're still the much smaller of two evils.
> Even if you sprinkle in the x% of crazies you find in any group of people.
> 
> ...


Coming from Germany I can really see why you're acting this way. German leftists just love having illegal immigrants flooding their country and having them ruin it. Antifa is much worse than the far right by using violence, smashing up storefronts, stopping traffic so people can't get to work, etc. These people are lunatics. Don't even try to compare the two because you will lose the debate. Don't do it.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Sounds to me like you're mainly arguing against the right wing fantasy of Antifa.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

Right wing?

Are you being sarcastic or thick?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

mattytrog said:


> So I take it you are against nationalism then?


Not sure about him, but I am. As it stands in modern society it is just another blanket term justifying mob-mentality, not so different from religion in the middle age and a common excuse to justify similar inhumane behavior.


----------



## barronwaffles (Oct 9, 2018)

mattytrog said:


> So I take it you are against nationalism then?



Not really, it's a pretty nebulous term anyway.

I'm just enjoying the show.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> Not sure about him, but I am. As it stands in modern society it is just another blanket term justifying mob-mentality, not so different from religion in the middle age and a common excuse to justify similar inhumane behavior.


I really disagree here, but I respect your opinion. I am a nationalist, I love my country, and would defend it to my last breath if need be.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> Not sure about him, but I am. As it stands in modern society it is just another blanket term justifying mob-mentality, not so different from religion in the middle age and a common excuse to justify similar inhumane behavior.


Well, not being funny, but you are German. Nationalism is frowned upon in Germany. I think it suddenly became unpopular there at the end of the 1930s for some reason.

But who in Germany needs nationalism? Germans can be continentalist - you know... At top of the EU ladder. The EU is theirs. Not a bullet fired.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I really disagree here but I respect your opinion. I am a nationalist and I love my country and would defend it to my last breath if need be.


To be honest, I have a weird love/hate relationship with my own country, yet I would defend it to my last breath also. But any vision of "nationalism" that makes a nationality seem better than any other, bans or reduce minorities or any other group of people, I am against that. Just trying to state there is some kind of reason that makes <insert nation here> superior is BS to me.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> To be honest, I have a weird love/hate relationship with my own country, yet I would also defend it to my last breath also. But any vision of "nationalism" that makes a nationality seem better than any other, bans or reduce minorities or any other group of people, I am against that. Just trying to state there is some kind of reason by <insert nation here> is superior is BS to me.


I think we have differing meanings of Nationalism.

Nationalism here, means celebrating your countries' history, culture, democracy and all the things that make you, you.

It is about not having your history wiped from memory. About being proud of where you are from. Nothing to do with whom is better or not. All countries have different merits.

If it is about who is "better" then us British are probably way down the list thanks to several socialist governments since WW2.

And yes, I`m ready to die for my country if it ever came to it, just like my forefathers were.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> To be honest, I have a weird love/hate relationship with my own country, yet I would also defend it to my last breath also. But any vision of "nationalism" that makes a nationality seem better than any other, bans or reduce minorities or any other group of people, I am against that. Just trying to state there is some kind of reason by <insert nation here> is superior is BS to me.


I wouldn't agree with a nationalist who would try to reduce a minority and say they are better but some cultures are better than others. It's just true. You can't compare the culture of Europe to the culture of Africa. That's a joke. I don't want my country or Europe turning into Africa, Mexico, or the middle east.


----------



## DinohScene (Oct 9, 2018)

Protests back in the 60's where peaceful.
Antifa has stooped to the same level as the opposite group they're trying to "protest" against.

Me opinion?
I couldn't care less if they all died out.
Society is disgusting anyway.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

Society is disgusting nowadays.

Can you imagine if there were another world war? 
With all the fairies and snowflakes in the world today?

Can you imagine Geldof on the front line? Or even that twinkletoes "Gok-Wan" whatever his name is?

Western style democracy would be screwed.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Everything that is extreme isn't good regarding belief and politics. Be it extreme left or extreme right. Not saying right or left is bad just the extreme left/right groups are. I myself am more of a centralist right wing person but in no way an extremist


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

This is why I love being an American, This is why I am a nationalist, this is why I love my freedom, and this is why I would defend my country and my countrymen until my last breath. Everything we worked so hard for is being destroyed by commie pricks but sooner or later the American patriots will stand up to the corruption of our government and antifa! We defeated the British and we will defeat anybody else! Haha sorry but I'm very patriotic.


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> This is why I love being an American, This is why I am a nationalist, this is why I love my freedom, and this is why I would defend my country and my countrymen until my last breath. Everything we worked so hard for is being destroyed by commie pricks but sooner or later the American patriots will stand up to the corruption of our government and antifa! We defeated the British and we will defeat anybody else! Haha sorry but I'm very patriotic.



Nah... We let you win. It`s too lonely when you are the only winner 







...jk


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> This is why I love being an American, This is why I am a nationalist, this is why I love my freedom, and this is why I would defend my country and my countrymen until my last breath. Everything we worked so hard for is being destroyed by commie pricks but sooner or later the American patriots will stand up to the corruption of our government and antifa! We defeated the British and we will defeat anybody else! Haha sorry but I'm very patriotic.



You didn't defeat the British btw. A thing most Americans like to forget that it was mostly because of the French that you could become independent hence why the statue of liberty was a present from France. That's quite a big thing to forget don't you agree ? If there was no France to help you wouldn't even be the United States of America you are right now and still be under British rule


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

mattytrog said:


> Nah... We let you win. It`s too lonely when you are the only winner
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See? We can joke about this and still be friendly! That's what being a man is! Haha!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



kumikochan said:


> You didn't defeat the British btw. A thing most Americans like to forget that it was mostly because of the French that you could become independent hence why the statue of liberty was a present from France. That's quite a big thing to forget don't you agree ? If there was no France to help you wouldn't even be the united states of america you are right now and still be under british rule


They helped us win our independence but that doesn't mean they were the ONLY reason we have it. I would stand by with anybody who would want their independence from a corrupt government!


----------



## mattytrog (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> You didn't defeat the British btw. A thing most Americans like to forget that it was mostly because of the French that you could become independent hence why the statue of liberty was a present from France. That's quite a big thing to forget don't you agree ? If there was no France to help you wouldn't even be the united states of america you are right now and still be under british rule



The French flag... White cross on a white background right?


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 9, 2018)

I honestly support them. Anyone fighting against the rebranded Neo-Nazi movement (alt-right) has my support.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I honestly support them. Anyone fighting against the rebranded Neo-Nazi movement (alt-right) has my support.


You support a group that vandalizes, smashes storefronts, promotes violence against people who disagree with them, stops innocent people from getting to work by stopping traffic, etc? You're entitled to your own opinion. I support groups that denounce that type of behavior.


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> You support a group that vandalizes, smashing storefronts, promotes violence against people who disagree with them, stops innocent people from getting to work by stopping traffic, etc? You're entitled to your own opinion. I support groups that denounces that type of behavior.


Looking into it, I've found very few actual acts of vandalism and even then I am not going to hold everyone accountable for those acts. The traffic incident wasn't Antifa, that was BLM. Equally they aren't attacking people who disagree with them, they are going after Nazis and people who support Nazis. Which yes, I am perfectly fine with attacking Nazis. Personally I think the only good nazi is a dead one.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Looking into it, I've found very few actual acts of vandalism and even then I am not going to hold everyone accountable for those acts. The traffic incident wasn't Antifa, that was BLM. Equally they aren't attacking people who disagree with them, they are going after Nazis and people who support Nazis. Which yes, I am perfectly fine with attacking Nazis. Personally I think the only good nazi is a dead one.


There is plenty of evidence of antifas acts of vandalism, attacking people who disagree with them, and stopping traffic that can be found of Youtube and elsewhere. They think anybody who disagrees with them is a "NAZI". While I don't agree with the whole Nazi ideology, I do agree that European people should be able to defend themselves, their families, and their countries from hostile groups such as Antifa and their own governments from wrongdoing.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Oct 9, 2018)

As stupid as their opinion is, they have a right to have it. If they aren't out there actually hurting people, they've done nothing wrong in my opinion. That goes for both groups; the Nazis and antifa.


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> There is plenty of evidence of antifas acts of vandalism, attacking people who disagree with them, and stopping traffic that can be found of Youtube and elsewhere. They think anybody who disagrees with them is a "NAZI". While I don't agree with the whole Nazi ideology, I do agree that European people should be able to defend themselves, their families, and their countries from hostile groups such as Antifa and their own governments from wrongdoing.


I am not saying they aren't doing extreme things, but that doesn't stop me supporting them.


Subtle Demise said:


> As stupid as their opinion is, they have a right to have it. If they aren't out there actually hurting people, they've done nothing wrong in my opinion. That goes for both groups; the Nazis and antifa.


Expect Neo-Nazis literally support killing innocent people for simply being alive. They support a group that has already committed genocide and plan on continuing that genocide. Saying that Nazis have done nothing wrong isn't just false, it's flat out stupid.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I am not saying they aren't doing extreme things, but that doesn't stop me supporting them.
> 
> Expect Nazis literally support killing innocent people for simply being alive. They support a group that has already committed genocide and plan on continuing that genocide. Saying that Nazis have done nothing wrong isn't just false, it's flat stupid.


I think that says a lot about you.
Absolute bull! You have to understand that Nazi's don't exist anymore and these people who claim to be are full of it. I have never seen any of these people claiming to want to kill someone just for being alive or supporting genocide and if they did I would denounce them as well. Antifa has done so much worse when it comes to actions instead of words that these Nazi posers can't even live up to it. What's stupid is supporting a group of people that have done extremist activities, harmed innocent people, and think that everyone that disagree's with them is a Nazi and still supporting them. That's just my opinion.


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I think that says a lot about you.
> Absolute bull! You have to understand that Nazi's don't exist anymore and these people who claim to be are full of it. I have never seen any of these people claiming to want to kill someone just for being alive or supporting genocide and if they did I would denounce them as well. Antifa has done so much worse when it comes to actions instead of words that these Nazi posers can't even live up to it. What's stupid is supporting a group of people that have done extremist activities, harmed innocent people, and think that everyone that disagree's with them is a Nazi and still supporting them. That's just my opinion.


It says I am against Neo-Nazis, I feel like that shouldn't be a controversial statement nor should I have to defend that mindset.
Equally one complaining to be a Neo-Nazi is complaining to support the Nazi movement and thus support what they've done. As well several of them have more than spoke out about their support for genocide. Someone like Richard B. Spencer for example has been more than public with his support for Nazi movement.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> It says I am against Neo-Nazis, I feel like that shouldn't be a controversial statement nor should I have to defend that mindset.


It's not controversial but that doesn't mean you have to support Antifa just because you are against Neo-Nazis and so are they. You're allowed to do anything you want though.


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It's not controversial but that doesn't mean you have to support Antifa just because you are against Neo-Nazis and so are they. You're allowed to do anything you want though.


I have my own reasons beyond just one reason alone. That being said, you are right that I am allowed to support who I want and equally as are you.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I have my own reasons beyond just one reason alone. That being said, you are right that I am allowed to support who I want and equally as are you.


That's fine and glad we agree. c:


----------



## Taleweaver (Oct 9, 2018)

Hanafuda said:


> This isn't peaceful protesting, isn't anti-nazi, isn't civil, isn't right. And this is just the most recent video I've seen like this and probably you too.
> 
> Why does anyone defend these people??? They should be treated as rioters / domestic terrorists.



Hmm...I don't know antifa (maybe they're called different in these parts?  ), but the opening post certainly isn't helping anything. I basically read it as

"How do you feel about <blank>? Before you answer: here's a video of some people that identify as <blank> misbehaving!!!"

Yeah...no, sorry. That's neither a discussion nor a debate but just starting a 2-minute hate session. Your video doesn't even say anything on why they block the road in the first place!


Note: I've wikipedia'ed things a bit, but couldn't tell more than "they're politically extreme left". If so, that puts me in nearly the same opinion as the extreme right. Both of 'em are "against" things. In itself, I can attest to that (I'm against a lot of things as well), but without proper answers an independent someone can believe in (and I do consider myself such someone) then it's not my cup of tea. The difference is perhaps how I feel for them. Extreme right (or alt right) often angers me because they twist or downright invent "facts" to follow their agenda, even though history has already shown that these ideas are counterproductive. For extreme left, I mostly feel pity. I _want_ to believe their idea of world view, but I can't. They're at best a naive bunch of dreamers who lost touch with reality. And at worst...well...again: I don't know antifa. But I would estimate that video is the potential of it at worst: street protest where the message they want to bring to the world is overshadowed by acts of lone nuts who have no clue about anything (the video almost painfully shows how the woman tries to send the drivers away from the protesters while that white "black man" just enrages the crowd).


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> Hmm...I don't know antifa (maybe they're called different in these parts?  ), but the opening post certainly isn't helping anything. I basically read it as
> 
> "How do you feel about <blank>? Before you answer: here's a video of some people that identify as <blank> misbehaving!!!"
> 
> ...


I always think its best to do research about both parties and draw your conclusions from there. The main difference is that antifa promotes violence, vandalism, destroying property of the opposition, stopping traffic so people can't go to work, etc. The alt-right denounces that type of behavior and wants their countries to remain European but some tend to have a Neo-Nazi ideology.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Expect Nazis literally support killing innocent people for simply being alive. They support a group that has already committed genocide and plan on continuing that genocide. Saying that Nazis have done nothing wrong isn't just false, it's flat out stupid.


Not really. Neo-nazism is such an extremely fringe ideology, and the majority don't actually have the balls to follow through with their beliefs. Don't forget that the modern incarnation is based on fear. They're scared that somehow their race is in danger. There is also very little chance that such a movement would ever gain any political traction within our lifetimes, and if it did, I would condone violence against whatever government adopts Nazi ideals. I don't condone violence against people who are basically just saying racist shit (and until they gain an actual politcal foothold, that's all they'll be). There is also a huge difference between actual Neo Nazis and your racist redneck neighbor. I'm sure if you searched, you can find a number of examples where neo nazis have commited some violent act (in which case violence in self-defense is justified), but that is the case with every group with extreme beliefs, antifa included. It's also a minority among those groups.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I always think its best to do research about both parties and draw your conclusions from there. The main difference is that antifa promotes violence, vandalism, destroying property of the opposition, stopping traffic so people can't go to work, etc. The alt-right denounces that type of behavior and wants their countries to remain European but some tend to have a Neo-Nazi ideology.


The problem i have with most people especially people in America is that they call everything right winged well extreme right wich it isn't. Neo nazi's and stuff like that is extreme right but in no way right wing politics. The problem is they classify everything as extreme right while not doing the same with lefties. Like i previous said, extreme right and extreme left is bad but normal right wing politics and left wing politics ain't. It's just stupid that they call everything extreme right these days.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Not really. Neo-nazism is such an extremely fringe ideology, and the majority don't actually have the balls to follow through with their beliefs. Don't forget that the modern incarnation is based on fear. They're scared that somehow their race is in danger. There is also very little chance that such a movement would ever gain any political traction within our lifetimes, and if it did, I would condone violence against whatever government adopts Nazi ideals. I don't condone violence against people who are basically just saying racist shit. There is also a huge difference between actual Neo Nazis and your racist redneck neighbor. I'm sure if you searched, you can find a number of examples where neo nazis have commited some violent act (in which case violence in self-defense is justified), but that is the case with every group with extreme beliefs, antifa included. It's also a minority among those groups.


The European race is the minority of the world and Europeans are said to be a minority in their own countries by 2040. They're not wrong on that and I feel that is something to be worried about.


----------



## The Catboy (Oct 9, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Not really. Neo-nazism is such an extremely fringe ideology, and the majority don't actually have the balls to follow through with their beliefs. Don't forget that the modern incarnation is based on fear. They're scared that somehow their race is in danger. There is also very little chance that such a movement would ever gain any political traction within our lifetimes, and if it did, I would condone violence against whatever government adopts Nazi ideals. I don't condone violence against people who are basically just saying racist shit (and until they gain an actual politcal foothold, that's all they'll be). There is also a huge difference between actual Neo Nazis and your racist redneck neighbor. I'm sure if you searched, you can find a number of examples where neo nazis have commited some violent act (in which case violence in self-defense is justified), but that is the case with every group with extreme beliefs, antifa included. It's also a minority among those groups.


I do agree with a lot of what you are saying and I am not saying what you are saying is wrong. But the notion that they haven't done anything "wrong" isn't inherently correct. People who actually follow the actual neo-NAZI movement still follow a movement that is based on the NAZI movement and want to continue what the Nazis started. Plus there actually has been attempts to gain a potential footing with more recent cases like Patrick Little and Arthur Jones. Even though they lost, they still got rather far and that's something worth being concerned about. These are the kinds of issues that actually concern me because you are right when you say that they shouldn't gain political traction, but they have. Saying something like, "they've done nothing wrong," about a group of people who deny the Holocaust, want to strip rights away, and so much more comes off as a bit of dog whistle to say that these ideas are acceptable.


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Oct 9, 2018)

Opinions re: Extremism

It's bad. Both sides have it. Both sides (the reasonable ones) are ashamed of it. Doesn't reflect the views of the majority on either side. Common sense and logic, people, come on.


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The European race is the minority of the world and Europeans are said to be a minority in their own countries by 2040. They're not wrong on that and I feel that is something to be worried about.


oh boy...




PanTheFaun said:


> I think that says a lot about you.
> Absolute bull! You have to understand that Nazi's don't exist anymore and these people who claim to be are full of it.



https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/photos/neo-nazi-groups-attend-day-honor-budapest-hungary-53553273

it doesn't matter. they've adopted the ideology. if they wanna be real Nazis, they should be treated like real Nazis. we should run them out of their towns, report their activities to their employers, and make it abundantly clear nobody wants them.




PanTheFaun said:


> I have never seen any of these people claiming to want to kill someone just for being alive or supporting genocide and if they did I would denounce them as well.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/28/idaho-robocalls-sandpoint-reader-neo-nazi
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rgh-peter-morgan-defence-league-a8494746.html
https://www.dw.com/en/more-neo-nazi-crimes-celebrating-terrorist-cell-nsu/a-45040198
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...sted-allegedly-plotting-terror-attack-n915331


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The European race is the minority of the world and Europeans are said to be a minority in their own countries by 2040. They're not wrong on that and I feel that is something to be worried about.



Why would one be afraid to be a minority? It's almost like minorities are mistreated and abused disproportionately or something...

hmmm...

Maybe looking into that would be a good place to start.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> oh boy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh boy, what? I would like to preserve my race. 
I disagree with you but the same can be said about the antifa and black lives matter commie pricks!
As I have said I denounce them but the extreme left causes much more violence and such compared to the Alt-Right.


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> As I have said I denounce them but the extreme left causes much more violence and such compared to the Alt-Right.


we didn't murder a counter-protester.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> we didn't murder a counter-protester.


And what are you referencing exactly? I hope it's not how those commie pricks were attacking someone in their car and the driver fled out of fear for their lives.


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Oct 9, 2018)

DrGreed said:


> I'll have to disagree. It's every other day some loony from the lift is attacking someone or trying to ruin lives with false accusations. Just recently some dude "fighting for women's rights" kicked a woman for disagreeing with abortions. I'm prochoice myself but I wont kick you for having the opposite opinion. Also those kids wouldn't be separated from their parents if those parents didn't break the law. When an American breaks a law they are separated from their kids to. And depending on the situation those kids are put in foster homes to.



Not sure if someone clued you in yet, but this happened in Canada and shouldn't be used to describe the current affairs in the US.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 9, 2018)

yuyuyup said:


> People worried about antifa are the same people who are fine with the government permanently orphaning hundreds of migrant children.  Antifa is such a nothing, there are so many headlines with alt-right violence, and barely ANY from the antifa side, it's an absolute joke.  I'm far more worried about your average gun-toting woman-hating Trump supporter going nuts, happens twenty times more often than ANYTHING from the left.



Are they executing the parents these days?

Headlines wise in some cases that might be a problem and a lot of news seems blind to their actions and tweak headlines accordingly. Amusing one I saw was a news site complaining that the police went after them but when I loaded up the hours of raw footage, broadcast live in some cases, they were the ones chanting nasty stuff, throwing stuff, not following police direction... In that case we were spared the vandalism and the violence (others not so much) but it speaks to something. I have seen them derided as kids LARPing as revolutionaries and that sounds about right. To that end worries about an individual going nuts, absolutely the right wing gun nut set would be the concern (up there with the disaffected college/university student). In terms of groups then I am not worried about a few right wing types wandering around a park/some streets. The antifa types are however a risk both in terms of groups and politics for those promising stability will do better... anyway if Noam Chomsky (not one that might be called a bit player in left wing politics) calls them a gift to the alt right https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-donald-trump-white-nationalist-a8044526.html then yeah.


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> And what are you referencing exactly? I hope it's not how those commie pricks were attacking someone in their car and they fled out of fear for their lives.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlo...es-alex-fields-jr-murder-charge-civil-rights/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...lle_vehicle-ramming_attack.webm.360p.vp9.webm

The full, terrifying video for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.


----------



## Taleweaver (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I always think its best to do research about both parties and draw your conclusions from there. The main difference is that antifa promotes violence, vandalism, destroying property of the opposition, stopping traffic so people can't go to work, etc. The alt-right denounces that type of behavior and wants their countries to remain European but some tend to have a Neo-Nazi ideology.


If they promote it, then the video in the opening post is very poorly chosen  as it doesn't show any spokesman whatsoever. 
Alt right angers  me because they're fencing with arguments I know to be wrong. But I was actually comparing extreme left with extreme right with each other. And those guys tend to do promoting that violence thing you're talking about.


----------



## WeedZ (Oct 9, 2018)

A group of thugs bum rush my car like that, people are getting shot.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlo...es-alex-fields-jr-murder-charge-civil-rights/


Antifa was wrong for blocking and attacking peoples cars and he was wrong for plowing through them but this isn't a new thing. It's illegal to block traffic and there are plenty of videos showing angry drivers driving through these guys because they are wrong. I'm not saying its right because it is wrong but so is blocking traffic and harming peoples property.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Taleweaver said:


> If they promote it, then the video in the opening post is very poorly chosen  as it doesn't show any spokesman whatsoever.
> Alt right angers  me because they're fencing with arguments I know to be wrong. But I was actually comparing extreme left with extreme right with each other. And those guys tend to do promoting that violence thing you're talking about.


The problem here is that the extreme left have caused much more chaos and violence than the extreme right. Those arguments to you are wrong but that's your opinion.


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Antifa was wrong for blocking and attacking peoples cars and he was wrong for plowing through them but this isn't a new thing. It's illegal to block traffic and there are plenty of videos showing angry drivers driving through these guys because they are wrong. I'm not saying its right because it is wrong but so is blocking traffic and harming peoples property.


I don't think you understand how protests work. They got a permit from the city. They were allowed to be there. They were not in the wrong AT ALL.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> I don't think you understand how protests work. They got a permit from the city. They were allowed to be there. They were not in the wrong AT ALL.


They weren't wrong for attacking peoples cars? Here is a video of antifa damaging the car -


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> They weren't wrong for attacking peoples cars? Here is a video of antifa damaging the car -



you get that he was already trying to run them over, right? he tried to kill them. But yea, lets try to blame domestic terrorism victims for denting the car that was attempting to kill them.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> you get that he was already trying to run them over, right? he tried to kill them. But yea, lets try to blame domestic terrorism victims for denting the car that was attempting to kill them.


He was trying to get out of there so he wasn't killed himself. Look at the other video I posted in my previous comment and it shows how they were attacking beforehand. This one -


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Look at the other video I posted in my previous comment and it shows how they were attacking beforehand. This one -




He was also being chased with a rifle before this. Perhaps he thought it was a gunshot when he was struck, causing him to accelerate.

Anyways, I'm fine with Antifa attacking people, it's just going to cause the whole left vs right debate to boil over and end in righteous violence with one winner. Gonna be pretty brutal.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> He was also being chased with a rifle before this. Perhaps he thought it was a gunshot when he was struck, causing him to accelerate.
> 
> Anyways, I'm fine with Antifa attacking people, it's just going to cause the whole left vs right debate to boil over and end in righteous violence with one winner. Gonna be pretty brutal.


Antifa are lunatics. They like to try to silence peoples free speech, take guns away, and allow the borders to be open to violent criminal thugs. They will never win.


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> He was also being chased with a rifle before this. Perhaps he thought it was a gunshot when he was struck, causing him to accelerate.
> 
> Anyways, I'm fine with Antifa attacking people, it's just going to cause the whole left vs right debate to boil over and end in righteous violence with one winner. Gonna be pretty brutal.


that was a conspiracy theory that was already proven wrong.



PanTheFaun said:


> He was trying to get out of there so he wasn't killed himself. Look at the other video I posted in my previous comment and it shows how they were attacking beforehand. This one -



he fully intended to kill before he was ever struck.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> that was a conspiracy theory that was already proven wrong.
> 
> 
> he fully intended to kill before he was ever struck.


He did not intend on running people over to murder. Stop it.


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It wasn't proven wrong and no he did not. Stop it.


no?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Alex_Fields_Jr.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> no?
> 
> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Alex_Fields_Jr.


I already changed my last post because I thought you were saying it was a conspiracy that he wasn't trying to harm anyone. I didn't even know about the gun thing.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> that was a conspiracy theory that was already proven wrong.


It was proven wrong?





He admitted it on facebook.


HamBone41801 said:


> he fully intended to kill before he was ever struck.


that was a conspiracy theory that was already proven wrong. :^)


----------



## HamBone41801 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I already changed my last post because I thought you were saying it was a conspiracy that he wasn't trying to harm anyone. I didn't even know about the gun thing.


he was absolutely trying to harm people. read the rest of that link. also, his charges have since been upgraded to first degree murder (premeditated).


----------



## J-Machine (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> you get that he was already trying to run them over, right? he tried to kill them. But yea, lets try to blame domestic terrorism victims for denting the car that was attempting to kill them.


If you are ok with violence being a pancea for violence then you are gonna get a rude awakening when the gov has to step in.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> he was absolutely trying to harm people. read the rest of that link. also, his charges have since been upgraded to first degree murder (premeditated).


I did read it and nowhere does it state he did it on purpose or as far as I can see.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> no?
> 
> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Alex_Fields_Jr.





HamBone41801 said:


> he was absolutely trying to harm people. read the rest of that link. also, his charges have since been upgraded to first degree murder (premeditated).



Then why would he be crying and sobbing when he learned someone was killed? That's either mental illness or an accident. 

"
"He did appear to be very shocked," Young said.

"Did he cry and sob?" Lunsford asked.

"Yes," the detective replied.
"


----------



## J-Machine (Oct 9, 2018)

HamBone41801 said:


> he was absolutely trying to harm people. read the rest of that link. also, his charges have since been upgraded to first degree murder (premeditated).


this is what one should expect when you can't protest peacefully. it was only a matter of time and i highly doubt its the last of this kind of event happening in the future. Antifa needs to grow up and take pages from real protestors like ghandi and martin luther king jr.


----------



## WeedZ (Oct 9, 2018)

Tone it down guys


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

WeedZ said:


> Tone it down guys


I apologize.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

WeedZ said:


> Tone it down guys


Why the hell would you delete my defense of myself against a person claiming I'm a racist? Are you ok with racism in some form? It looks really bad for you to do something like that.

Word of advice, let us political guys debate it out and defend ourselves. Mods don't really need to come in unless someone is spamming the N-Word. If that person wants to think like that, let them, but DELETING POSTS IS NOT THE WAY TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE DEBATE.

If a person thinks that I hate a certain race, let them say that, and let me defend myself.


----------



## Whole lotta love (Oct 9, 2018)

antifa is good.


----------



## J-Machine (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Why the hell would you delete my defense of myself against a person claiming I'm a racist? Are you ok with racism in some form? It looks really bad for you to do something like that.
> 
> Word of advice, let us political guys debate it out and defend ourselves. Mods don't really need to come in unless someone is spamming the N-Word. If that person wants to think like that, let them, but DELETING POSTS IS NOT THE WAY TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE DEBATE.
> 
> If a person thinks that I hate a certain race, let them say that, and let me defend myself.


with all due respect the mod took care of the offending post proving it was wrong of them and thus you need not defend yourself. also i feel like that was a bait anyways.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Whole lotta love said:


> antifa is good.


Simple answer: No.


----------



## WeedZ (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Why the hell would you delete my defense of myself against a person claiming I'm a racist? Are you ok with racism in some form? It looks really bad for you to do something like that.
> 
> Word of advice, let us political guys debate it out and defend ourselves. Mods don't really need to come in unless someone is spamming the N-Word. If that person wants to think like that, let them, but DELETING POSTS IS NOT THE WAY TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE DEBATE.
> 
> If a person thinks that I hate a certain race, let them say that, and let me defend myself.


I deleted his post, not because he was making accusations, but because it was clearly racism. You quoted it so yours was removed as well. Rules are already in place and I have guidelines to follow. This wasn't going anywhere productive anyway.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

J-Machine said:


> with all due respect the mod took care of the offending post proving it was wrong of them and thus you need not defend yourself. also i feel like that was a bait anyways.



Yeah it was factually incorrect but it was still their opinion. I guess looking back it was bait, but I don't like the idea of mods deleting parts of debates once they get a bit heated.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Yeah it was factually incorrect but it was still their opinion. I guess looking back it was bait, but I don't like the idea of mods deleting parts of debates once they get a bit heated.


It's fine. We knew we were in the right and that's all that matters. 
The MOD did what he had to do.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It's fine. We knew we were in the right and that's all that matters.
> The MOD did what he had to do.


Bleh, I hope this doesn't happen too often, then.


----------



## whaty671 (Oct 9, 2018)

Antifa is forbidden.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> The protester killed by a right wing protester


Even this can be debated. Heather Hayes was obese and actually died from a heart attack after being hit. While I am not saying that the man driving the car had no part in this, if Hayes was not obese she probably would not have had the heart attack that killed her. It is a shame that she died, but the average person would not have died from what he did, it just so happened that he hit an obese woman who likely had heart issues.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Even this can be debated. Heather Hayes was obese and actually died from a heart attack after being hit. While I am not saying that the man driving the car had no part in this, if Hayes was not obese she probably would not have had the heart attack that killed her. It is a shame that she died, but the average person would not have died from what he did, it just so happened that he hit an obese woman who likely had heart issues.



if we're going to be medical, heart attack is quite a normal reaction to being run over and many many other severe mutilation like events.
also, stop pretending like driving into a 20 people crowd was ok if no one was seriously injured.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> heart attack is quite a normal reaction to being run over


Citation needed


Clydefrosch said:


> stop pretending like driving into a 20 people crowd was ok if no one was seriously injured.


It's not, but it wouldn't be a murder either.



whaty671 said:


> I am not that good at speaking English,


Why are the in US then? Unless you're in the far south by the border you need English to function normally.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Sounds like all you know is fox news nonsense.
> 
> And you're saying that right wing on left wing demonstrator attack was an accident? He just accidentally ran into a group of 20 people?
> Come on are you kidding me? Next you're telling me George Zimmermann accidentally kill that kid he killed.
> ...



If you want to debate that Heather Hayes thing I already did and suggest you look back at my previous posts. George Zimmerman is not of concern to me and he actually defended himself because he feared for his life.

Europeans are getting tired of their governments allowing these violent illegal immigrant thugs into their country when the greater populace doesn't want it. They are slowly standing up to the onslaught that is upon them. Really? My statistics say that migrant European crimes are getting worse. Hmm...

https://www.newsweek.com/migrants-europe-violence-crime-germany-study-770105
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...e-germany-rises-50-per-cent-new-figures-show/
https://www.constitutionparty.com/illegal-alien-crime-and-violence-by-the-numbers-were-all-victims/


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha is that the best you can do? I do know about Germany and Europe. c:
> 
> You mean the thing we were literally just debating about? You mean the thing that wasn't done on purpose? That Heather Hayes? And is that the only example you guys can use against the right? Not looking too good at the moment for you guys. The extreme left have done so much more.
> 
> I don't think so. You're the reason that the world looks down on Europeans because the European men like you are the literal definition of CUCK. Why don't you shut up and defend your country from people who are hell bent on destroying it! You're ancestors would be ashamed of you!


BLM are killing people


Snipers are killing cops. Ever since Ferguson cop killings have risen.


Cops are 18 1/2 times more likely to be killed by a Black, then a unarmed black is killed by a cop. Cops are targeted and killed more by blacks then blacks by cops. Of course does this get out. Does this stop BLM from lying.

12% of White homicide victims are killed by cops. While 4% of Black homicide victims are killed by cops. BLM should be instead called WLM (White Lives Matter) for accuracy.

So yes extreme leftist groups are murdering people just like extreme right. I see the recent rise in Nazi and White supremacy in retaliation to leftist groups like BLM and Antifa. Racism Breeds Racism. Lies breeds racism also. All these groups Nazi's, BLM, Antifa, Feminist's are a bunch of morons.


----------



## whaty671 (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Citation needed
> 
> It's not, but it wouldn't be a murder either.
> 
> ...


I am NOT from another country! I am just confused as to why this thread exists. 
And honestly, I think antifa is a stupid group just like dems and liberals.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> BLM are killing people
> 
> 
> Snipers are killing cops. Ever since Ferguson cop killings have risen.
> ...



I agree with this. 
Most people don't talk about but I have explained before in another thread that minorities tend to commit more violent crimes.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> heart attack is quite a normal reaction to being run over


Nevermind, you just pulled at out of your ass. Damage to the heart is different from a heart attack, so even with this analysis it's more likely that she died of overexertion. I say this because the parents would know that it was a heart attack after the autopsy, and them saying that it's a heart attack almost confirms that he was not the actual cause of death.



PanTheFaun said:


> minorities tend to commit more violent crimes.


Which can be for a variety of reasons, most common is poverty. The thing is people think that welfare and such will pull people out of poverty when it only prolongs it. It's fucking sad seeing some of the poorer parts of the US.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Yeah how about you fuck yourself, you know nothing about germany or europe. And apparently, nothing about your own
> 
> And remember heather hayes? The protester killed by a right wing protester when he DROVE A CAR INTO A GROUP OF 20 PEOPLE?
> And please, don't ignore violence on the right, they break shit, they attack people just as much, likely more.
> ...


Extreme right and not normal right wing, okay ? No need to put everybody that is right-winged in the same group. Have been countless of left terrorists in the past that murdered people so should we also put the entire left in that same group now ? Stop putting everybody with a right wing mind like myself as an example in that extremist group like you just did with that comment. Always with the generalizing, gee ur basically doing the same as racists do and act like one terrorist represents everyone.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I agree with this.
> Most people don't talk about but I have explained before in another thread that minorities tend to commit more violent crimes.


Look up the Knock Out Game, where black minorities beat up people for fun and laugh.
Or Beat Whitey Night. Or polar bear hunting aka lets beat up white people. And people wonder why White Supremacy is on the rise. And Antifa is suppose to counteract this and counteract nazism? This is only going to make problems worse. And make racism's between both groups worse.



Attacker3 said:


> Nevermind, you just pulled at out of your ass. Damage to the heart is different from a heart attack, so even with this analysis it's more likely that she died of overexertion. I say this because the parents would know that it was a heart attack after the autopsy, and them saying that it's a heart attack almost confirms that he was not the actual cause of death.
> 
> 
> Which can be for a variety of reasons, most common is poverty. The thing is people think that welfare and such will pull people out of poverty when it only prolongs it. It's fucking sad seeing some of the poorer parts of the US.


I would say its more culture then poverty. Blacks prior to 1960 had higher poverty rates but lower crime rates. Today blacks have less poverty but higher crime rates. Poverty doesn't explain this. But a culture that idolizes violence does. Look at gangsta rap.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Look up the Knock Out Game, where black minorities beat up people for fun and laugh.
> Or Beat Whitey Night. Or polar bear hunting aka lets beat up white people. And people wonder why White supremacy is on the rise. And Antifa is suppose to counteract this and counteract nazism? This is only going to make problems worse. And make racim's between both groups worse.
> 
> 
> I would say its more culture then poverty. Blacks prior to 1960 had higher poverty rates but lower crime rates. Today blacks have less poverty but higher crime rates. Poverty doesn't explain this. But a culture that idolizes violence does. Look at gangsta rap.


I can agree with that last part since black people don't act the same way here as black people in the US. You almost never hear any crime done by them untill well the African migrants but that's a whole different case by itself seeing most blacks that already reside here were Christian blacks while refugees are mostly Africans who are Muslim. Yeah now i am generalizing a bit but you can't deny that is what is happening tho


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Nevermind, you just pulled at out of your ass. Damage to the heart is different from a heart attack, so even with this analysis it's more likely that she died of overexertion. I say this because the parents would know that it was a heart attack after the autopsy, and them saying that it's a heart attack almost confirms that he was not the actual cause of death.
> 
> 
> Which can be for a variety of reasons, most common is poverty. The thing is people think that welfare and such will pull people out of poverty when it only prolongs it. It's fucking sad seeing some of the poorer parts of the US.






SG854 said:


> Look up the Knock Out Game, where black minorities beat up people for fun and laugh.
> Or Beat Whitey Night. Or polar bear hunting aka lets beat up white people. And people wonder why White supremacy is on the rise. And Antifa is suppose to counteract this and counteract nazism? This is only going to make problems worse. And make racim's between both groups worse.
> 
> 
> I would say its more culture the poverty. Blacks prior to 1960 had higher poverty rates but lower crime rates. Today blacks have less poverty but higher crime rates. Poverty doesn't explain this. But a culture that idolizes violence does. Look at gangsta rap.



I understand the whole poverty thing but I don't think that justifies it because you don't see whites commiting the same amount of violence and such if they are in poverty. I agree that a culture that idolizes violence probably does add to it. We need to fix our cultures.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Stop putting everybody with a right wing mind like myself as an example in that extremist group


The thing is it makes it easier to attack a unified group of evil instead of tackling individuals. It's a lazy way to feel good about yourself when you say that a certain group of people is truly evil, and that you're against them. It makes people feel good on the inside, which is why a lot of people in university and around that age opt for it. You're in a stressful time making huge life decisions, and you need to feel like you're having some effect on the world in order to cope.



SG854 said:


> But a culture that idolizes violence does. Look at gangsta rap.



I suppose. The death of the nuclear family has affected African Americans more than anyone. I don't know the exact statistic but it's over 50% of black children don't have a father. So yeah, they end up looking up to rappers and athletes for a father figure.


----------



## whaty671 (Oct 9, 2018)

I don't even know anymore. I'm scared.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> I can agree with that last part since black people don't act the same way here as black people in the US. You almost never hear any crime done by them untill well the African migrants but that's a whole different case by itself seeing most blacks that already reside here were Christian blacks while refugees are mostly Africans who are Muslim. Yeah now i am generalizing a bit but you can't deny that is what is happening tho


Yes, even Blacks in Germany don't act like American Blacks. Blacks that migrate to the U.S. with very little money from Nigeria and Jamaica are off put by American Blacks. They don't understand why they act the way they do.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Yes, even Blacks in Germany don't act like American Blacks. Even Blacks that migrate to the U.S. with very little money from Nigeria and Jamaica are off put by American Blacks. They don't understand why they act the way they do.


Basically the music, Run DMC did an entire rant video about it.
That's the reason why the black community is different compared to other black communities. Also, i think it also has to do that the black community in the US being a lot more racists against whites than anywhere else in the world. Black people don't mind the n-word here, it's a normal thing to say here and they don't get offended. I never got why it was okay in the states to not use the n-word but it is okay to say white cracker and shit like that


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Basically the music, Run DMC did an entire rant video about it.
> That's the reason why the black community is different compared to other black communities. Also, i think it also has to do that the black community in the US is a lot more racists against whites than anywhere else in the world. Black people don't mind the n-word here, it's a normal thing to say here and they don't get offended. I never got why it was okay in the states to not use the n-word but it is okay to say white cracker and shit like that



The Knock out Game is a very small minority of Black Teens that do it. So most black aren't doing this. But it is more common from blacks then any other group.  And Black mob violence too, where hundreds of black teens send a text message to meet up and rampage stores stealing stuff and beating people up.

I saw the Run DMC video before. What's Ironic that talking Black in America comes from White people. Ebonics (or talking black) originates from Europe. Blacks got their culture of violence and way of speaking from southern whites, from the Irish and the Scotts that immigrated to America. And not surprising the Irish were also discriminated against. No Irish Need Apply signs. The same things used to criticize the Irish, like being lazy and violent, was also used for Blacks. Now the Irish are respected in America after changing their ways.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> The Knock out Game is a very small minority of Black Teens that do it. So most black aren't doing this. But it is more common from blacks then any other group.  And Black mob violence too, where hundreds of black teens send a text message to meet up and rampage stores stealing stuff and beating people up.
> 
> I saw the Run DMC video before. What's Ironic that talking Black in America comes from White people. Ebonics (or talking black) originates from Europe. Blacks got their culture of violence and way of speaking from southern whites, from the Irish and the Scotts that immigrated to America. And not surprising the Irish were also discriminated against. No Irish Need Apply signs. The same things used to criticize the Irish, like being lazy and violent, was also used for Blacks. Now the Irish are respected in America after changing their ways.


Could be but in this day and age it still has more to do with the music and racism against white people i find. Atleast over there in the US since black people are mostly different here and didn't grow up with rap music since it was never as popular here as in the states. I must say that rap became a lot more popular the last 20 years and you see more and more the same violence and ghetto's springing up like in the states and i see that mostly because of the influence of rap and hip hop. I just see how rap and hip hop becomes more and more popular and at the same time young adults and teenagers become more and more violent at the same time so it is pretty connected


----------



## Subtle Demise (Oct 9, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I do agree with a lot of what you are saying and I am not saying what you are saying is wrong. But the notion that they haven't done anything "wrong" isn't inherently correct. People who actually follow the actual neo-NAZI movement still follow a movement that is based on the NAZI movement and want to continue what the Nazis started. Plus there actually has been attempts to gain a potential footing with more recent cases like Patrick Little and Arthur Jones. Even though they lost, they still got rather far and that's something worth being concerned about. These are the kinds of issues that actually concern me because you are right when you say that they shouldn't gain political traction, but they have. Saying something like, "they've done nothing wrong," about a group of people who deny the Holocaust, want to strip rights away, and so much more comes off as a bit of dog whistle to say that these ideas are acceptable.


Believe me, I don't agree with anything the Nazis stand for. I don't support their views. I believe in personal liberty above all else. Nazi idealogy does not line up with that. But because I believe so heavily in personal liberty, I also believe they have a right to say these things. They don't have a right, however to follow through. I've actually never heard of Patrick Little and Arthur Jones until now. It is very concerning that they got somewhere politically, but that's a big reason I support the Second Amendment. Imagine how different history would have been if the German people had the means to take up arms against Hitler.

I think "doing nothing wrong" was the wrong choice of words to use in this case. I find it morally wrong to hold Nazi views, and even moreso to speak them out loud, but I also feel those should not be illegal. Not every immoral action should be illegal.

Anyway, another point I forgot to bring up in my earlier posts was in relation to neo-nazis being a fringe element. I feel that in order to stay that way, they shouldn't be in the public eye. While antifa's intentions may be noble, they are hurting the cause by making nazis something to be feared again, instead of them fearing rational people and the groups they despise so much. The best way to fight these people is by destroying their work and social lives. Out them to friends and family and their employers, boycott any businesses they own. These are valid and effective strategies to discredit any radicalist movement. Violence and vandalism should be a last resort, amd only when there is a threat to your own life or someone else's.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Believe me, I don't agree with anything the Nazis stand for. I don't support their views. I believe in personal liberty above all else. Nazi idealogy does not line up with that. But because I believe so heavily in personal liberty, I also believe they have a right to say these things. They don't have a right, however to follow through. I've actually never heard of Patrick Little and Arthur Jones until now. It is very concerning that they got somewhere politically, but that's a big reason I support the Second Amendment. Imagine how different history would have been if the German people had the means to take up arms against Hitler.
> 
> I think "doing nothing wrong" was the wrong choice of words to use in this case. I find it morally wrong to hold Nazi views, and even moreso to speak them out loud, but I also feel those should not be illegal. Not every immoral action should be illegal.
> 
> Anyway, another point I forgot to bring up in my earlier posts was in relation to neo-nazis being a fringe element. I feel that in order to stay that way, they shouldn't be in the public eye. While antifa's intentions may be noble, they are hurting the cause by making nazis something to be feared again, instead of them fearing rational people and the groups they despise so much. The best way to fight these people is by destroying their work and social lives. Out them to friends and family and their employers, boycott any businesses they own. These are valid and effective strategies to discredit any radicalist movement. Violence and vandalism should be a last resort, amd only when there is a threat to your own life or someone else's.


I don't fully agree with that. Not so long ago there was an article in the news paper here about a guy who worked as a busdriver for over 30 years. Never were any complaints about him and people of all colour said he was a great human being and a nice busdriver untill there was an office party and he showed up with a t-shirt instead of his regular bus clothing and he got fired because he had the German eagle wich is a reference to Nazi gerrmany as a tattoo on his arm and he got fired because of that. I don't agree with that tattoo but there was no reason to fire that guy while there were never any complaints about him and he did his job the best he could and was good at it. So you agree that a person like that should be fired for having a tattoo that he covered up all his entire life but not in his free time ? Not saying you do but i was wondering


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> I don't fully agree with that. Not so long ago there was an article in the news paper here about a guy who worked as a busdriver for over 30 years. Never were any complaints about him and people of all colour said he was a great human being and a nice busdriver untill there was an office party and he showed up with a t-shirt instead of his regular bus clothing and he got fired because he had the German eagle wich is a reference to Nazi gerrmany as a tattoo on his arm and he got fired because of that. I don't agree with that tattoo but there was no reason to fire that guy while there were never any complaints about him and he did his job the best he could and was good at it. So you agree that a person like that should be fired for having a tattoo that he covered up all his entire life but not in his free time ? Not saying you do but i was wondering


I know I'm probably in the minority here but I would prefer if Europe stayed European and America stayed European also. Just my opinion.


----------



## whaty671 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I know I'm probably in the minority here but I would prefer if Europe stayed European and America stayed European also. Just my opinion.


But america isn't european. It would be a different country


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I know I'm probably in the minority here but I would prefer if Europe stayed European and America stayed European also. Just my opinion.


I think you meant to write American instead of Europan tho .
This is sadly a real cover of national geographic


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I know I'm probably in the minority here but I would prefer if Europe stayed European and America stayed European also. Just my opinion.


It's literally never been a European nation.  We killed a bunch of natives and then boated over a bunch of Africans.  We're all immigrants here except the very small number of remaining native Americans.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

whaty671 said:


> But america isn't european. It would be a different country


America has been majorily European for a long time now. The reason America was so great was because of European culture and society and things got worse when minorities came here.



kumikochan said:


> I think you meant to write American instead of Europan tho .
> This is sadly a real cover of national geographic
> View attachment 146160


Haha no I meant to say European and trust me I know.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Could be but in this day and age it still has more to do with the music and racism against white people i find. Atleast over there in the US since black people are mostly different here and didn't grow up with rap music since it was never as popular here as in the states. I must say that rap became a lot more popular the last 20 years and you see more and more the same violence and ghetto's springing up like in the states and i see that mostly because of the influence of rap and hip hop. I just see how rap and hip hop becomes more and more popular and at the same time young adults and teenagers become more and more violent at the same time so it is pretty connected


Northerners would say; I Am, You Are, She Isn't, It Doesn't, I Haven't. 

While Antebellum White Southerners would say; I Be, You Be, She Ain't, It Don't, I Hain't
This way of talking they usually call talking Black, but they are regional dialects that originated from South and West of England in the 17th century.

Same for words saying Axe instead of Ask, Yaller for Yellow, Acrost for Across, Y'awl for You, Bile for Boil, Dis for This, Dat for That.
It all came from Europe England. 

The term redneck comes from Europe. And White Redneck Culture is what the Irish and Sotts brought with them to America. This culture started to die among blacks. But its usually blamed on the Welfare State that this cracker culture is maintained and on the rise in black ghettos after the 60's. Rap music is an extension of cracker culture.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> It's literally never been a European nation.  We killed a bunch of natives and then boated over a bunch of Africans.  We're all immigrants here except the very small number of remaining native Americans.


I have no problems with the Native Americans and am sad to see their numbers diminished but America wasn't a country before Europeans came here. When we made this our country it was a society created by Europeans for Europeans.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> We're all immigrants here


That's really disrespectful to your ancestors. America was a nation of imperialists, pioneers and colonists from Europe. They built the USA up and then fought against their tyrannical rulers.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Northerners would say; I Am, You Are, She Isn't, It Doesn't, I Haven't.
> 
> While Antebellum White Southerners would say; I Be, You Be, She Ain't, It Don't, I Hain't
> This way of talking they usually call talking Black, but they are regional dialects that originated from South and West of England in the 17th century.
> ...


So mostly English then you mean seeing in the rest of Europe those words aren't used and not even in Dutch seeing a ton of settlers were also Dutch


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> That's really disrespectful to your ancestors. America was a nation of imperialists, pioneers and colonists from Europe. They built the USA up and then fought against their tyrannical rulers.


The Europeans that came here weren't even immigrants but colonizers.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I have no problems with the Native Americans and am sad to see their numbers diminished but America wasn't a country before Europeans came here. When we made this our country it was an society created by Europeans for Europeans.


You mean Europe hadn't declared it a country.  It was still a country.  Vikings had discovered it long before Colombus.  Convenient you ignore that we brought "minorities" here by force, too.  If our forefathers wanted to keep it a white European nation then it still would be.


----------



## whaty671 (Oct 9, 2018)

i'm shocked


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You mean Europe hadn't declared it a country.  It was still a country.  Convenient that you ignore that we brought "minorities" here by force, too.  If our forefathers wanted to keep it a white European nation then we still would be.


It really wasn't a country. It was free land that had people fighting for different territories and Jews brought the African slaves here not Europeans. They did want it to stay European.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> So mostly English then you mean seeing in the rest of Europe those words aren't used and not even in Dutch seeing a ton of settlers were also Dutch


Words usually die from there place of origin while they are maintained well after in countries other then there origin. Canadian French is an archaic form of French from France. Latin American Spanish is an archaic form of Spanish from Europe. Same with American English. Old archaic words are still used in these countries while they largely die out in their place of origin. Same goes for culture.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It really wasn't a country. It was free land that had people fighting for different territories and Jews brought the African slaves here not Europeans. They did want it to stay European.


Well to be fair it were mostly Dutch that brought the slaves over. Well jewish Dutch but still Dutch


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It really wasn't a country. It was free land that had people fighting for different territories and Jews brought the African slaves here not Europeans. They did want it to stay European.


Everybody bought slaves back then, it was definitely not just history's favorite punching bag the Jews.  If we didn't want the slaves we wouldn't have brought them here, and ever since then we've just been trading one source of slave labor for another in order to artificially prop up our economy.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Well to be fair it were mostly Dutch that brought the slaves over.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> View attachment 146162


Yeah they were Jewish but also Dutch since it was the Dutch West indies company that brought over the slaves started by indeed jews that resided in The Netherlands


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Everybody bought slaves back then, it was definitely not just history's favorite punching bag the Jews.  If we didn't want the slaves we wouldn't have brought them here, and ever since then we've just been trading one source of slave labor for another in order to artificially prop up our economy.


My point is that the slaves were used for labor and weren't meant to be citizens.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> View attachment 146162


Even if I believe this is a complete list and accurate, it's destroying your own argument.  If we had so many Jewish people from the start, then this was never going to be the "pure white European" nation you suggested it was meant to be.  Also the people who owned the ships were not the only people involved in the slave trade or using slave labor (obviously).


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Even if I believe this is a complete list and accurate, it's destroying your own argument.  If we had so many Jewish people from the start, then this was never going to be the "pure white European" nation you suggested it was meant to be.  Also the people who owned the ships were not the only people involved in the slave trade or using slave labor (obviously).


Jews weren't meant to be citizens either but like other races Americans did business with them and a lot of Jews changed their names to be European so they wouldn't be found out.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Jews weren't meant to be citizens either but like other races Americans did business with them.


Yeah true that, because there wasn't a law that stated you couldn't trade with native americans so they did and took advanttage of that and got land that way


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Yeah true that, because there wasn't a law that stated you couldn't trade with native americans so they did and took advanttage of that and got land that way


I agree but we also fought for the land.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Yeah they were Jewish but also Dutch since it was the Dutch West indies company that brought over the slaves started by indeed jews that resided in The Netherlands


Whats amazing to is that West Indies Black's that also have a history of slavery are more successful in the United States then American Blacks. They have higher educational attainment and higher pay. As far back as the 1980's Black couples who are both college educated earned more then their White peers.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Whats amazing to is that West Indies Black's that also have a history of slavery are more successful in the United States then American Blacks. They have higher educational attainment and higher pay. As far back as the 1980's Black couples who are both college educated earned more then their White peers.


Didn't know that, you learn something new everyday xp


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> My point is that the slaves were used for labor and weren't meant to be citizens





PanTheFaun said:


> Jews weren't meant to be citizens either but like other races Americans did business with them.


In other words, the slave trade had no foresight.  Hard to disagree with that, but it doesn't really make a difference at this point since we've brought several other races and cultures into the equation since then, knowing full well we'd have to honor their human rights.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Didn't know that, you learn something new everyday xp


Black immigrants perform much better then American Blacks. 

If you want a source it's in the book Please Stop Helping Us by Jason Riley.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> In other words, the slave trade had no foresight.  Hard to disagree with that, but it doesn't really make a difference at this point since we've brought several other races and cultures into the equation since then, knowing full well we'd have to honor their human rights.


The founding fathers wanted America to stay white and that's just the truth and I linked a video to prove it. They were meant to be slaves and no more and some were even deported from America.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> In other words, the slave trade had no foresight.  Hard to disagree with that, but it doesn't really make a difference at this point since we've brought several other races and cultures into the equation since then, knowing full well we'd have to honor their human rights.


I don't think there was such a thing as human rights back then. Well depends when tho since the first decleration was in 1776 but that wasn't really enforced


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The founding fathers wanted America to stay white and that's just the truth and I linked a video to prove it. They were meant to be slaves and no more and some were even deported from America.


Good thing the founding fathers are 10 feet under and America is now a country filled with many different cultures now


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Good thing the founding fathers are 10 feet under and America is now a country filled with many different cultures now


Nope. It was a better country with them and their beliefs around. c:


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Good thing the founding fathers are 10 feet under and America is now a country filled with many different cultures now


That i also don't agree with. It used to be in the past like that but after so many years mixing together it created an American culture instead of a mix mash of cultures. That's the reason why you survived this long with a mix mash of cultures. Because a culture clash is never good. Americans took patriotism wich created an American identity. The reason why Europe also is having all those problems is because there isn't really an European identity


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> That i also don't agree with. It used to be in the past like that but after so many years mixing together it created an American culture instead of a mix mash of cultures.


American culture is European culture.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The founding fathers wanted America to stay white and that's just the truth and I linked a video to prove it. They were meant to be slaves and no more and some were even deported from America.


That may be what some of them wanted, but again it was self-sabotage and lack of foresight that eliminated any possibility of it happening.  The slave era was always going to come to an end.  I'm with Lincoln over our founding fathers on that one.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> American culture is European culture.


I edited my post tho, you were a bit 2 fast


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> That i also don't agree with. It used to be in the past like that but after so many years mixing together it created an American culture instead of a mix mash of cultures. That's the reason why you survived this long with a mix mash of cultures. Because a culture clash is never good. Americans took patriotism wich created an American identity


Yeah it's a beautiful things when cultures mix together and create brand new things like japanese x mexican food


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That may be what some of them wanted, but again it was self-sabotage and lack of foresight that eliminated any possibility of it happening.  The slave era was always going to come to an end.


It was a mistake to allow the slaves here but like I have said before the slaves were meant to just work for us and never be citizens and meant to be deported.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

wait you edited your post


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Yeah it's a beautiful things when cultures mix together and create brand new things like japanese x mexican food


The Japanese still have Japan and the Mexicans still have Mexico. Why is it only European countries that have to be subjected to other races flooding into their countries?


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The Japanese still have Japan and the Mexicans still have Mexico. Why is it only European countries that have to be subjected to other races coming to their countries?


True, most Asian countries don't allow foreigners to invade their countries. Look at South Korea constantly protesting about the goverment accepting a super tiny amount of refugees. The entire country is protesting against that while also most Japanese outside of Tokyo are racist against non Japanese.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The Japanese still have Japan and the Mexicans still have Mexico. Why is it only European countries that have to be subjected to other races coming to their countries?


America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It was a mistake to allow the slaves here but like I have said before the slaves were meant to just work for us and never be citizens and meant to be deported.


Right, they were "meant" to remain slaves until they were all very near death, then deported.

If you want to remain a white European nation, that means it's white Europeans who would have to do all the work.  It's because they took the easy out and used slave labor instead that they killed their own vision for this country.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?


And the Ainu inhabited Japan before the Japanese came there and the Japanese took over. What's your point? Different peoples fight for land and win them over. The difference here is that when Europeans did it it was to colonize and such but this is being done systematically.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?


Politics wise they didn't. There wasn't a country to begin with so politics wise Europeans thought they were not doing anything wrong. Also a lot of native americans sold their land against a small portion wich they thought was a good deal but it wasn't.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> I don't think there was such a thing as human rights back then. Well depends when tho since the first decleration was in 1776 but that wasn't really enforced



The concept of human rights started forming in 1715ish and was caused by the Enlightenment. Of course, it took a while for these things to take root, and it grew throughout the century as philosophers debated on what it meant to have human rights. It's not that human rights don't exist, it's just that nobody had even considered that human rights might exist in the first place. It was a foreign concept that ended up with the US declaring independence and many wars in Europe against the monarchs. The freeing of the slaves came later, because of many deep rooted expectations and such. Considering that the freeing of slaves happened quite soon after (except in confederate states), people were quite quick to realize that African slaves were people too. Slavery in the US was fairly quickly abolished in many of the states, and then in order to get the confederates to stop they had to bypass the 10th amendment that limits the federal government's power. And that little civil war... almost forgot that...

The thing is, the day America died was the day that the Union armies trampled all over the confederate states' right to rule themselves.




Eddypikachu said:


> America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?



This argument is based on the idea of private property, and I'm sorry, in order to actually own previously unowned land, you have to work and improve the land and stay on it, which most tribes did not do. They moved around, forfeiting any land they could have owned. Some actually stayed in one spot and I really disagree with them being taken out, but many of the other tribes had no land that could be taken at all.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> And the Ainu inhabited Japan for the Japanese came there and the Japanese took over. What's your point? Different peoples fight for land and win them over. The difference here is that when Europeans did it it was for conquest and such but this is being done systematically.


Like to say that america was ONLY a european nation is ahistoric because there have been multiple multiple people from different countries migrating over to the US obtain land.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> The concept of human rights started forming in 1715ish and was caused by the Enlightenment. Of course, it took a while for these things to take root, and it grew throughout the century as philosophers debated on what it meant to have human rights. It's not that human rights don't exist, it's just that nobody had even considered that human rights might exist in the first place. It was a foreign concept that ended up with the US declaring independence and many wars in Europe against the monarchs. The freeing of the slaves came later, because of many deep rooted expectations and such. Considering that the freeing of slaves happened quite soon after (except in confederate states), people were quite quick to realize that African slaves were people too. Slavery in the US was fairly quickly abolished in many of the states, and then in order to get the confederates to stop they had to bypass the 10th amendment that limits the federal government's power. And that little civil war... almost forgot that...
> 
> The thing is, the day America died was the day that the Union armies trampled all over the confederate states' right to rule themselves.
> 
> ...


It was established in other countries but not in the states since the first written decleration was made in 1776. Also that decleration didn't talk about human rights but that all were equal and freedom and all of that. As long as it wasn't written and signed there wasn't a law to begin with really


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> The thing is, the day America died was the day that the Union armies trampled all over the confederate states' right to rule themselves.


You mean they trampled over their "right" to own slaves.  Which never should've been a right in America to begin with.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> I don't fully agree with that. Not so long ago there was an article in the news paper here about a guy who worked as a busdriver for over 30 years. Never were any complaints about him and people of all colour said he was a great human being and a nice busdriver untill there was an office party and he showed up with a t-shirt instead of his regular bus clothing and he got fired because he had the German eagle wich is a reference to Nazi gerrmany as a tattoo on his arm and he got fired because of that. I don't agree with that tattoo but there was no reason to fire that guy while there were never any complaints about him and he did his job the best he could and was good at it. So you agree that a person like that should be fired for having a tattoo that he covered up all his entire life but not in his free time ? Not saying you do but i was wondering


I was actually thinking more along the lines of the hardcore skinheads and Klansmen are the ones that need ostricized. I don't agree with ruining a guy's life over a tattoo he probably got as a teenager to be edgy.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Like to say that america was ONLY a european nation is ahistoric because there have been multiple multiple people from different countries migrating over to the US obtain land.


America is a European nation because before Europeans colonized there was no America. It was a society built for Europeans.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> America is a European nation because before Europeans colonized there was no America. It was a society built for Europeans.


Well i agree with a lot of stuff you said on here but i don't agree with that. You have American culture and identity and you have European culture and identity wich aren't alike at all anymore. America and Europe is both considered the west but they're not alike at all. I see more and more fighting between Europeans and Americans wich is because of that culture clash between the 2. Both continents are getting less and less alike


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> It was established in other countries but not in the states since the first written decleration was made in 1776. Also that decleration didn't talk about human rights but that all were equal and freedom and all of that










Xzi said:


> You mean they trampled over their "right" to own slaves. Which never should've been a right in America to begin with.



Sure and you can argue that, but they did have a right to own slaves in those states. I disagree with it, but sooner rather than later they would have abolished it too due to social pressures within the state and from outside of the state. No need for a war.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Well i agree with a lot of stuff you said on here but i don't agree with that. You have American culture and identity and you have European culture and identity wich aren't alike at all anymore. America and Europe is both considered the west but they're not alike at all.


The Europeans that came here based a society that was similar to Europe such as morals and values but also made a new culture that would make it much more prosperous and free than Europe.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> I don't think there was such a thing as human rights back then. Well depends when tho since the first decleration was in 1776 but that wasn't really enforced


Native Americans were enslaving and killing each other way before Whites set foot on American land. 95% of the Native American population was wiped out through diseases brought from Europe. So Whites did not commit mass genocide. And many times Native Americans teamed up with Whites to take revenge or to conquer other Native American Tribes. Cortez had about 500 conquistadors, while 50,000 Native Americans joined him to conquer the Aztecs. Human Sacrifice on War Captives, Aztecs weren't peaceful themselves. Both Whites and Indians were brutal. 

Read any history book and you'll see that slavey is told in a lopsided way in mainstream media. Every race was a slave. Slavery was commonly practiced in the world. No one really questioned it until the 18th century. Europeans were the first. White's also ended slavery for much of the world. Not just in European countries but in non European countries also. 

The only reason they were able to accomplished this was because they had more advance gun powder weapons. And because of colonization they controlled about 1/4 of the world. Europeans went on a mission to end slavery around the world and it took them over 100 years to do it because non western countries still wanted slavery. Slavery still exists in places they were unable to end it, but a lot less then if they decided to do nothing.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> America is a European nation because before Europeans colonized there was no America. It was a society built for Europeans.


It was a society that was built around the idea "that all man are created equal" not for just Europeans.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> It was a society that was built around the idea "that every man are created equal" not for just Europeans.


When they said that all men are created equal they meant Europeans. All men are equal but they owned slaves? Watch the video to answer that question


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Native Americans were enslaving and killing each other way before Whites set foot on American land. 95% of the Native American population was wiped out through diseases brought from Europe. So Whites did not commit mass genocide. And many times Native Americans teamed up with Whites to take revenge or to conquer other Native American Tribes. Cortez had about 500 conquistadors, while 50,000 Native Americans joined him to conquer the Aztecs. Human Sacrifice on War Captives, Aztecs weren't peaceful themselves. Both Whites and Indians were brutal.
> 
> Read any history book and you'll see that slavey is told in a lopsided way in mainstream media. Every race was a slave. Slavery was commonly practiced in the world. No one really questioned it until the 18th century. Europeans were the first. White's also ended slavery for much of the world. Not just in European countries but in non European countries also.
> 
> The only reason they were able to accomplished this was because they had more advance gun powder weapons. And because of colonization they controlled about 1/4 of the world. Europeans went on a mission to end slavery around the world and it took them over 100 years to do it because non western countries still wanted slavery. Slavery still exists in places they were unable to end it, but a lot less then if they decided to do nothing.


Did you also know there weren't any bee's in the US before the Spanish came to the continent. They used to have it but became extinct many many ages ago but Europeans took them accidently to the states. Just a fun fact for the people always claiming the world would die without bee's


----------



## spAik (Oct 9, 2018)

@BORTZ @Issac @tj_cool @Depravo


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Did you also know there weren't any bee's in the US before the Spanish came to the continent. They used to have it but became extinct many many ages ago but Europeans took them accidently to the states. Just a fun fact for the people always claiming the world would die without bee's


Here'a a bit of History of Europeans trying to end slavery around the world.

British Navy went into Brazilian waters to destroy Brazilian Slave Ships. British pressured the Ottoman Empire to Ban the African Slave trade, and boarded their ships if they didn't do a good job enforcing the ban. Americans ended slavery in the Philippines. The Dutch stamped it out in Indonesia. Russians in Central Asia. French in their West African and Caribbean Colonies. Germans in East African Colonies and they hung slave traders if they caught them in the act. 1873 British ships threatened to blockade the Island of Zanzibar unless they ended the slave market.

British bribed Spain and Portugal to get their help to end the international slave trade. Royal Navy patrolled the Atlantic to try to catch any ships carrying slaves. Arab slave traders used more streamlined ships to try to outrun the British Navy. And sometimes when there was a threat of being boarded, they would throw African slaves overboard to drown so it won't look like they weren't transporting slaves. Arab slave traders would also castrate males because Eunuchs were worth more that way.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

spAik said:


> @BORTZ @Issac @tj_cool @Depravo


Why are you calling supervisors when everybody is talking respectfully against each other in a proper manner ?


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

spAik said:


> @BORTZ @Issac @tj_cool @Depravo



Why are you calling the mod on our debate? They're very busy, and we're being respectful and civil. You can't just call a mod because you disagree with what's being said. Also, there's a thing called a report button.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also his last post before this one was from 2009 and somehow knows all the supervisors and just so happened to stumble on our debate. Sockpuppet much?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Sure and you can argue that, but they did have a right to own slaves in those states. I disagree with it, but sooner rather than later they would have abolished it too due to social pressures within the state and from outside of the state. No need for a war.


By that time the South was claiming that slave labor was 100% essential to their economy, I don't think a war was avoidable if we were going to change their outlook on that.  It's kind of like suggesting a big oil company will eventually transition to green energy because of their own morals and social pressure.  I don't expect I'll ever see something like that happen in my lifetime.  In the same vein, I'm willing to bet that some areas of the country would still have slavery if not for the Civil War.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> When they said that all men are created equal they meant Europeans. All men are equal but they owned slaves? Watch the video to answer that question



Yep, they thought that, and if you go further into American history people being question the reality of the blanket statement that all men are created equal and fought for better rights so that everyone can actually be treated as an equal person.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Big Brother is coming. Haha.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> By that time the South was claiming that slave labor was 100% essential to their economy, I don't think a war was avoidable if we were going to change their outlook on that.  It's kind of like suggesting a big oil company will eventually transition to green energy because of their own morals and social pressure.  I don't expect I'll ever see something like that happen in my lifetime.  In the same vein, I'm willing to bet that some areas of the country would still have slavery if not for the Civil War.


Most big cities don't allow diesel cars anymore in cities or older gasoline cars and by 2022 i think it was only electrical cars would be allowed in big cities across Europe so i see that happening rather soon. Also Belgium will no longer use nuclear energy by 2025 and most European cities won't anymore


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> slave labor was 100% essential to their economy,


CITATION NEEDED


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Yep, they thought that, and if you go further into American history people being question the reality of the blanket statement that all men are created equal and fought for better rights so that everyone can actually be treated as an equal person.


But that's actually not happening when you have Europeans being forced to deal with these illegal immigrants when they don't want them in their country. Now you have things being called whitewashed, white people are all racist, nazis if they don't want their culture and countries taken over, etc. Try this in any Asian country and you'll see they will never go for it. The races were segregated from each other from the beginning because there is infighting like this. Multicultural societies have never worked in a peaceful way.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> CITATION NEEDED





			
				NPS said:
			
		

> In 1860, the South was still predominantly agricultural, highly dependent upon the sale of staples to a world market. By 1815, cotton was the most valuable export in the United States; by 1840, it was worth more than all other exports combined. But while the southern states produced two-thirds of the world's supply of cotton, the South had little manufacturing capability, about 29 percent of the railroad tracks, and only 13 percent of the nation's banks. The South did experiment with using slave labor in manufacturing, but for the most part it was well satisfied with its agricultural economy.


https://www.nps.gov/resources/story.htm?id=251

Note that I did say "100% essential" to their economy, not "100% of their economy."  It's the same thing when somebody claims the Civil War was fought over the economy or states' rights.  Technically true, but still disingenuous because it was fought over the _slave_ economy and states' right to use _slave labor_.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> But that's actually not happening when you have Europeans being forced to deal with these illegal immigrants when they don't want them in their country. Now you have things being called whitewashed, white people are all racist, nazis if they don't want their culture and countries taken over, etc. The races were segregated from each other from the beginning because there is infighting like this. Multicultural societies have never worked in a peaceful way.


Again America isn't comprised of ONLY Europeans, the times have changed whether you like it or not and people of other ethnicities have lived here for a very long time and will continue living for a very long time here. And also you're blowing everything out of proportion because I sense you have some huge unnecessary paranoia, like, no ones gonna do a Trail of Tears for white people, that's just not even realistic and kinda absurd to think that.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Again America isn't comprised of ONLY Europeans, the times have changed whether you like it or not and people of other ethnicities have lived here for a very long time and will continue living for a very long time here. And also you're blowing everything out of proportion because I sense you have some huge unnecessary paranoia, like, no ones gonna do a Trail of Tears for white people, that's just not even realistic and kinda absurd to think that.


Haha this isn't a debate as to what races will be here and such the point is that it was meant to be European and in my opinion was a much better country when it was a European society ran by Europeans. It was safer, our own people worked American jobs and not other countries, and we had much better freedoms. America and Europe are now turning into 3rd world countries thanks to 3rd world peoples flooding in who don't care about the culture, history, etc.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha this isn't a debate as to what races will be here and such the point is that it was meant to be European and in my opinion was a much better country when it was a European society ran by Europeans. It was safer, our own people worked American jobs and not other countries, and we had much better freedoms. America and Europe are now turning into 3rd world countries thanks to 3rd world peoples flooding in.


The fact that we're turning into a third-world country has nothing to do with immigration.  We elect greedy corporatist oligarch-like figures and then act surprised when workers get treated like shit from both corporations and the government.  We simply don't have enough Socialist influences or inclinations right now, and we have too many authoritarian influences and inclinations.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha this isn't a debate as to what races will be here and such the point is that it was meant to be European and in my opinion was a much better country when it was a European society ran by Europeans. It was safer, our own people worked American jobs and not other countries, and we had much better freedoms. America and Europe are now turning into 3rd world countries thanks to 3rd world peoples flooding in who don't care about the culture, history, etc.


It absolutely was not better back then, we had the entire Gilded age, child labor, unsafe working conditions, working for poverty wages, it was not as glamorous as you're attempting to romanticize it.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> https://www.nps.gov/resources/story.htm?id=251
> 
> Note that I did say "100% essential" to their economy, not "100% of their economy."  It's the same thing when somebody claims the Civil War was fought over the economy or states' rights.  Technically true, but still disingenuous because it was fought over the _slave_ economy and states' rights to use _slave labor_.



Already your source shows why they would end up moving away from slave labour.



> But while the southern states produced two-thirds of the world's supply of cotton, the South had little manufacturing capability, about 29 percent of the railroad tracks, and only 13 percent of the nation's banks. The South did experiment with using slave labor in manufacturing, but for the most part it was well satisfied with its agricultural economy.



The issue with the south is that their entire agricultural sector was out of date, and the less labour intensive manufacturing wasn't really available to the south.


> Southern agriculture remained labor intensive while northern agriculture became increasingly mechanized



The only reason that the south kept slaves was because they were behind on the tech side of things. Once they caught up with more things to reduce labour, it would be more valuable for the economy to allow the Africans to go free and educate them in order to actually work the manufacturing jobs (you can't just throw anybody into one of those and expect them to do well at all, their experiment with manufacturing most likely failed because of that.)

Once the southern states actually caught up to the north, they would have abolished slavery most definitely, just because they had 14 million less people, and you need as many of those as possible to be educated when you have an economy based on manufacturing, which the South would end up moving to when they had less and less people working the fields.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> It absolutely was not better back then, we had the entire Gilded age, child labor, unsafe working conditions, working for poverty wages, it was not as glamorous as you're attempting to romanticize it.


Haha trust me it was a lot better and I rather have dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> The fact that we're turning into a third-world country has nothing to do with immigration.  We elect greedy corporatist oligarch-like figures and then act surprised when workers get treated like shit from both corporations and the government.  We simply don't have enough Socialist influences or inclinations right now, and we have too many authoritarian influences and inclinations.


I also agree with this. I believe they are both responsible in different ways.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Once the southern states actually caught up to the north, they would have abolished slavery most definitely, just because they had 14 million less people, and you need as many of those as possible to be educated when you have an economy based on manufacturing.


That's fair, but there's also no way of knowing if they would've kept slaves and used them for different work in that case.  After all, we've just jumped from one source of cheap labor to the next since then, and it's still happening today with our clothing and our electronics.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That's fair, but there's also no way of knowing if they would've just kept slaves and used them for different work in that case.  After all, we've just jumped from one source of cheap labor to the next since then, and it's still happening today with our clothing and our electronics.


Maybe we should just get back to the Antifa stuff. We got off track. :c


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha trust me it was a lot better and I rather have dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.


Haha trust me you wouldn't want to die in the coal mines (where you're only earning pennies a day) because your boss decided they didn't want to pay for any safety measures, you deserve better tbh, we all deserve safe working conditions and above poverty pay.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Haha trust me you wouldn't want to die in the coal mines where you're only earning pennies a day because your boss decided they didn't want to pay for any safety measures, you deserve better tbh, we all deserve safe working conditions and above poverty pay.


Even today a lot of people are paid close to nothing but I rather just get back to the Antifa stuff which is what this thread is about. :c


----------



## Issac (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> also his last post before this one was from 2009 and somehow knows all the supervisors and just so happened to stumble on our debate. Sockpuppet much?


There is a page that lists all staff members, so that's nothing weird.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

Issac said:


> There is a page that lists all staff members, so that's nothing weird.


OH SNAP!


----------



## gameboy (Oct 9, 2018)

and this is why i laughed when that guy ran over 30 people at that rally in the carolinas a few years ago. people need to get out of the street or get run over in hopefully brutal gore spilling fashion


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Again America isn't comprised of ONLY Europeans, the times have changed whether you like it or not and people of other ethnicities have lived here for a very long time and will continue living for a very long time here. And also you're blowing everything out of proportion because I sense you have some huge unnecessary paranoia, like, no ones gonna do a Trail of Tears for white people, that's just not even realistic and kinda absurd to think that.


White Galley Slaves. Captured by Barbary Pirates and taken to North Africa. Many Whites died on slave ships while being transported to Africa. Then taken to slave markets to be sold at auction. Male Slaves were used in hard manual labor. Women were used for housework and sexual servitude. Even worse slaves were assigned to oars  of galleys. They were shackled and they had to eat, sleep, defecate and urine where they were chained. And were whipped if they didn't work hard enough. Whites also had their mistreatment and share of slavery. Every race did. White Americans and Europeans were being captured during Black slavery in America.

Slavery itself was never based on racism. Many people would enslave their own for most of history. It wasn't until the advancement of technology that they were able to transport slaves from one continent to another. Racism came after. Whites were still being enslaved in other parts of the world years after after Blacks were freed in America with the Civil War and the 13th Amendment.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

gameboy said:


> and this is why i laughed when that guy ran over 30 people at that rally in the carolinas a few years ago. people need to get out of the street or get run over in hopefully brutal gore spilling fashion


They really shouldn't be disturbing innocent people for their protests.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Socialist influences or inclinations right now, and we have too many authoritarian influences and inclinations.



I agree with the second part, but you forget that socialist is quite authoritarian too. You're telling people that they are not entitled to the fruits of their labour, and instead the government will take some of your fruit and give you something that you might not even want.




Xzi said:


> After all, we've just jumped from one source of cheap labor to the next since then, and it's still happening today with our clothing and our electronics.



See, the countries where this happens are dirt fucking poor, and in order for them to actually increase their wealth, they have to work and create capital. Capitalism is a wealth creator, and as long as there's no outside influences messing with it, a nation will get more wealthy. The example I like to give is in Europe with children of farmers. They did not go to school, they helped their parents work the land in order to get food on the table. But then, all of a sudden, the industrial revolution reared it's beautiful head, and thus the child went to work in the factory. But then, something happened. Because of the wealth that was being created by rampant capitalism, it wasn't very valuable for a child to be working at a factory when they could employ educated workers instead of dumb children. So it made for sense for children to _invest_ their time into school in order to get into one of these jobs.

The "moral" of the story is that a lot of times people work out of neccesity in these poor countries, and if you tried to institute some measure to prevent companies from paying them so little, they'd either stop making things altogether, or fire a lot of people, and that's going to end up with a lot families dead from starvation. Let capitalism do it's thing, and you'll see the benefits.


----------



## gameboy (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> They really shouldn't be disturbing innocent people for their protests.



they shouldnt be standing in the middle street


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

gameboy said:


> they shouldnt be standing in the middle street


Haha that too.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

gameboy said:


> they shouldnt be standing in the middle street


I don't know why i'm laughing because of that lol probably because it sounds a bit like darkish humor


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> I don't know why i'm laughing because of that lol probably because it sounds a bit like darkish humor


They wouldn't get hit if they weren't intentionally blocking others from passing on the street. They should learn from their mistakes and get the hell out of street.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> The fact that we're turning into a third-world country has nothing to do with immigration.  We elect greedy corporatist oligarch-like figures and then act surprised when workers get treated like shit from both corporations and the government.  We simply don't have enough Socialist influences or inclinations right now, and we have too many authoritarian influences and inclinations.


We are not turning into a 3rd world country, we are are actually getting richer. There is great income mobility in America.

Nordic Countries became wealthy through free market competition capitalism, before welfare programs were ever introduced. Socialist Welfare programs actually stunted their economic growth, so they are moving away from it. They fund their generous welfare by heavily taxing the middle class and poor, while give benefits to the rich. Thats how they make it work. They know if they tax the rich too much they will leave the country, and their economy will fail.


----------



## gameboy (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> They wouldn't get hit if they weren't intentionally blocking others from passing on the street. They should learn from their mistakes and get the hell out of street.



exactly, andif youve ever driven throug one of these things there are no warning signs or police to patrol, you drive and then theres a mob of peoplepeople. Idiots ran a protest near the freeway one time and it was almost a disaster many times over


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> We are not turning into a 3rd world country, we are are actually getting richer. There is great income mobility in America.
> 
> Nordic Countries became wealthy through free market competition capitalism, before welfare programs were ever introduced. Socialist Welfare programs actually stunted their economic growth, so they are moving away from it. They fund their generous welfare by heavily taxing the middle class and poor, while give benefits to the rich. Thats how they make it work. They know if they tax the rich to much they will leave the country, and their economy will fail.


Maybe the 1% are getting richer but not the American middle class. No way. Nope.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> I agree with the second part, but you forget that socialist is quite authoritarian too. You're telling people that they are not entitled to the fruits of their labour, and instead the government will take some of your fruit and give you something that you might not even want.


We already have taxes taken from every check, and we've already got Socialism-inspired programs in place, such as social security, medicare/medicade, welfare, etc.  What I mean by "Socialist influences" more than anything is respecting our workers and paying them fair wages based on the value that their labor produces.  We're one of the richest nations on Earth, but you definitely wouldn't know it based on observing how your average middle or lower class citizen lives.



Attacker3 said:


> The "moral" of the story is that a lot of times people work out of neccesity in these poor countries, and if you tried to institute some measure to prevent companies from paying them so little, they'd either stop making things altogether, or fire a lot of people, and that's going to end up with a lot families dead from starvation. Let capitalism do it's thing, and you'll see the benefits.


I mean, a lot of people die while working for slave wages too.  Just as often from suicide as starvation.  If a corporation is going to exploit a certain population, they should have to pay them a living wage for the region from the start.  Even if that would be lower than the American minimum wage in many cases, it'd still be better than $0.05 an hour or whatever.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> We are not turning into a 3rd world country, we are are actually getting richer. There is great income mobility in America.
> 
> Nordic Countries became wealthy through free market competition capitalism, before welfare programs were ever introduced. Socialist Welfare programs actually stunted their economic growth, so they are moving away from it. They fund their generous welfare by heavily taxing the middle class and poor, while give benefits to the rich. Thats how they make it work. They know if they tax the rich to much they will leave the country, and their economy will fail.


Ur not becoming richer. You used to be but now other nations are taking that spot like China, Europe and so forth. If you would become richer then the dollar wouldn't haven sunken so low compared to the Euro. European union has all these social benefits while still supporting the richest countries in the world.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Ur not becoming richer. You used to be but now other nations are taking that spot like China, Europe and so forth. If you would become richer then the dollar wouldn't haven sunken so low compared to the Euro


Tis a real tragedy. :c


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Maybe the 1% are getting richer but not the American middle class. No way. Nope.


The middle class is getting richer. Middle Class is shrinking because they are moving up into the upper class. More people are in the upper class then were 40 years ago. When you have more people in the upper class and less on the bottom it will create a growing gap between the rich and the poor.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/eco...is-shrinking-and-heres-why-thats-a-good-thing


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> The middle class is getting richer. Middle Class is shrinking because they are moving up into the upper class. More people are in the upper class then were 40 years ago. When you have more people in the upper class and less on the bottom it will create a growing gap between the rich and the poor.
> 
> https://thefederalistpapers.org/eco...is-shrinking-and-heres-why-thats-a-good-thing


Where do you live because I don't see that anywhere. I could be wrong but I'm not thriving from this richness!


----------



## Purple_Shyguy (Oct 9, 2018)

A bunch of dumb lefty morons


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> fair wages based on the value that their labor produces.


But how do you decide that? Is through the marxist way of "if it takes longer to make it's worth more"? Because that's really dumb, and we can get into a debate about that too.



Xzi said:


> I mean, a lot of people die while working for slave wages too. Just as often from suicide as starvation. If a corporation is going to exploit a certain population, they should have to pay them a living wage for the region from the start. Even if that would be lower than the American minimum wage in many cases, it'd still be better than $0.05 an hour or whatever.


But what does a minimum wage mean? The fact that many people are surviving with their family working shows that they are in fact living. Again, we get into an issue of how to define how much labour is worth.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Ur not becoming richer. You used to be but now other nations are taking that spot like China, Europe and so forth. If you would become richer then the dollar wouldn't haven sunken so low compared to the Euro. European union has all these social benefits while still supporting the richest countries in the world.





PanTheFaun said:


> Where do you live because I don't see that anywhere. I could be wrong but I'm not thriving from this richness!


Check Out my last blog I go into it in a lot more detail about the poor and rich in America. It'll save me a lot of typing time. And if there is anything you need to know then just ask me in this thread.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> We are not turning into a 3rd world country, we are are actually getting richer. There is great income mobility in America.


We're on the brink of another worldwide economic crash.  Debts have never been higher.  We haven't been stockpiling a surplus or paying down debts at all, so I don't know how well America is going to recover afterward.



SG854 said:


> Nordic Countries became wealthy through free market competition capitalism, before welfare programs were ever introduced. Socialist Welfare programs actually stunted their economic growth, so they are moving away from it. They fund their generous welfare by heavily taxing the middle class and poor, while give benefits to the rich. Thats how they make it work. They know if they tax the rich too much they will leave the country, and their economy will fail.


They don't need welfare programs because they do smart stuff like taxing gasoline at 70% and put that money to use in the green energy sector.  Or paying their workers the wages they actually deserve.  If we want to become more prosperous like those countries, it's a lot more complicated then ending welfare and facetiously saying "good luck" to those who were dependent on it.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> We're on the brink of another worldwide economic crash.  Debts have never been higher.  We haven't been stockpiling a surplus or paying down debts at all, so I don't know how well America is going to recover afterward.
> 
> 
> They don't need welfare programs because they do smart stuff like taxing gasoline at 70% and put that money to use in the green energy sector.  Or paying their workers the wages they actually deserve.  If we want to become more prosperous like those countries, it's a lot more complicated then ending welfare and facetiously saying "good luck" to those who were dependent on it.


Debt a lot of it was caused by Obama's spending much more then what bush did. 

But they do have welfare programs.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 9, 2018)

I'm not debating anymore as far as I know but I will spectate. c:


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Debt a lot of it was caused by Obama's spending much more then what bush did.
> 
> But they do have welfare programs.


Much of Obama's spending was a necessity to pull us out of the economic recession GWB put us in.  Republicans were always supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility," but we're in the same deep hole regardless of whataboutism.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Much of Obama's spending was a necessity to pull us out of the economic recession GWB put us in.


Funny how the government has to fix the issues that government makes. Most of the issues in the world wouldn't exist if the government didn't meddle.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

Obama is a capitalist idiot. To do a 5 minute speech at the university in ghent he asked 600 000 Euro wich is almost 700 000 dollar wich they thankfully declined afterwards


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> But how do you decide that? Is through the marxist way of "if it takes longer to make it's worth more"? Because that's really dumb, and we can get into a debate about that too.


In 2018 we obviously have more accurate ways of tracking value produced than that.  McDonald's knows how much profit they're making per sandwich.  If I had to guess, an average employee there on an average day isn't earning even 1% of the profits they've made for the company.  Somewhere in the 5-10% range would be far more fair, and then the rest of us wouldn't have to pay our taxes toward the food stamps that fast food employees are forced to use to make end's meet.



Attacker3 said:


> But what does a minimum wage mean? The fact that many people are surviving with their family working shows that they are in fact living. Again, we get into an issue of how to define how much labour is worth.


Labor is always worth more than what a company/corporation is going to want to pay for it.  CEO profits have never been higher.



Attacker3 said:


> Funny how the government has to fix the issues that government makes. Most of the issues in the world wouldn't exist if the government didn't meddle.


GWB's spending was out of control, but government didn't crash the economy.  It was a lack of regulation that allowed the housing and banking industries to crash the economy.  If government didn't exist then all the dominoes would've fell and we never would've recovered from the '08 crash.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> We're on the brink of another worldwide economic crash.  Debts have never been higher.  We haven't been stockpiling a surplus or paying down debts at all, so I don't know how well America is going to recover afterward.
> 
> 
> They don't need welfare programs because they do smart stuff like taxing gasoline at 70% and put that money to use in the green energy sector.  Or paying their workers the wages they actually deserve.  If we want to become more prosperous like those countries, it's a lot more complicated then ending welfare and facetiously saying "good luck" to those who were dependent on it.


When you look a figures from 2016 the richest 400 have lost $19 billion dollars. If they rigged the system then they are doing a horrible job at it.

51% of Americans will be in the top 10% at some point in their lives for at least one year. This shows great income mobility. So static charts between upper class and bottom tells you nothing of the individuals in those brackets. Most people in the top and bottom aren't the same people 5 years ago

Poor in America is however statisticians want it to mean. What we call poor in America is what they call middle class in Mexico. Most poor in America have smart phones.

This is how United States compares to the world.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/09/how-americans-compare-with-the-global-middle-class/


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> If I had to guess, an average employee there on an average day isn't earning even 1% of the profits they've made for the company. Somewhere in the 5-10% range would be far more fair, and then the rest of us wouldn't have to pay our taxes toward the food stamps that fast food employees



But if you raise wages based on profit, then the increase in wages will drive profit down, and then it will drive wages down with it :c


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> But if you raise wages based on profit, then the increase in wages will drive profit down, and then it will drive wages down with it :c


You lost me.  If you increase wages, people have more money to spend, and thus can provide more profit to companies.  It doesn't add to inflation because that was money that was going to exist anyway, it just would've gone to the CEO instead of the workers.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Much of Obama's spending was a necessity to pull us out of the economic recession GWB put us in.  Republicans were always supposed to be the party of "fiscal responsibility," but we're in the same deep hole regardless of whataboutism.


The recession was caused by government intervention in the housing market. Forcing loans to people that couldn't afford it because they were being sued from apparently discriminating against blacks which isn't even true. Whites where being rejected more from loans then Asians. And most Blacks were authorized for loans.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> The recession was caused by government intervention in the housing market. Forcing loans to people that couldn't afford it because they were being sued from apparently discriminating against blacks which isn't even true. Whites where being rejected more from loans then Asians. And most Blacks were authorized for loans.


People were taking loans they couldn't afford, yes, but banks were also extremely deceptive about those loans and made people believe they could afford them.  Then Wall Street couldn't help but gamble with the junk bonds that these loans were rolled into despite knowing that there was no real value backing them.  If it means a big short-term spike in profits, the corporate world is always willing to crash the economy because they believe they have enough capital in reserve to insulate themselves.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> If government didn't exist then all the dominoes would've fell and we never would've recovered from the '08 crash.


Well that's wrong. The banks would have failed and new ones that didn't take risks would take their places. Just giving money to companies doesn't fix and issue. It's like giving a treat to a dog who just pissed on the carpet, telling it "Ok I'll give you this if you promise not to do it again"



Xzi said:


> CEO profits have never been higher.


If we take Walmart's CEO's salary of 21 million and divide that by 30 thousand and it looks like if he didn't get paid that much he would be able to help 733.3 of his 1.5 million employees be $8000 over the poverty line.



Xzi said:


> You lost me. If you increase wages, people have more money to spend, and thus can provide more profit to companies. It doesn't add to inflation because that was money that was going to exist anyway, it just would've gone to the CEO instead of the workers.



Inflation would take root then. You'd have Cost-Push, caused by the increased cost of production, as well as Demand-Pull inflation, caused by the increased demand of goods by the people who have more money to blow.




Xzi said:


> banks were also extremely deceptive about those loans and made people believe they could afford them.


You're correct but you missed the point. The government was doing extensive investigations on them to see if they were discriminating against minorities. In fear that they would be hit by a huge lawsuit, they decided to give out loans to literally everyone just so they could say "hey look government you don't have to sue us, look at us giving loans to all races!".


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> People were taking loans they couldn't afford, yes, but banks were also extremely deceptive about those loans and made people believe they could afford them.  Then Wall Street couldn't help but gamble with the junk bonds that these loans were rolled into despite knowing that there was no real value backing them.  If it means a big short-term spike in profits, the corporate world is always willing to crash the economy because they believe they have enough capital in reserve to insulate themselves.


It was not caused by the Free Market it was caused by government intervention. If government never intervened in the first place this would've never happened.
Free market does not take risky loans because they wouldn't survive long. It was government backing them that they were able to do this. And law suits meant they were forced to make these loans.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Attacker3 said:


> But how do you decide that? Is through the marxist way of "if it takes longer to make it's worth more"? Because that's really dumb, and we can get into a debate about that too.
> 
> 
> But what does a minimum wage mean? The fact that many people are surviving with their family working shows that they are in fact living. Again, we get into an issue of how to define how much labour is worth.


The average medium family income for a minimum wage worker is more then $44,000 a year, way more then a minimum wage worker can make alone. 42% of minimum wage workers live with a parent or some other relative. Only 15% support themselves and a dependent. 3.6 million people earning no more then minimum wage in 2012, over half were from 16-24 years old. 64% worked part time. Only 3% of minimum wage workers are over 24 years old. Most minimum wage workers are not supporting a family of 4. And most likely to be teenagers and a young adult.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Free market does not take risky loans because they wouldn't survive long.


 Well, some bank would give out risky loans but it would get to a point where they lose it all because they gave them to the wrong people. Then they would fail, as they should. Failing businesses are not a bad thing, it allows new ones to rise up from their ashes and perhaps do something better.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Well, some bank would give out risky loans but it would get to a point where they lose it all because they gave them to the wrong people. Then they would fail, as they should. Failing businesses are not a bad thing, it allows new ones to rise up from their ashes and perhaps do something better.


Loan Banking use to be one of the safest investments you could make in history. The traditional way is a 20% down payment and fixed interest rate. It wasn't until government intervention that the problem was caused.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Loan Banking use to be one of the safest investments you could make in history. The traditional way a 20% down payment and fixed interest rate. It wasn't until government intervention that the problem was caused.


It's true. I also find it charming how basic of an investment it is. It's probably safer to go to a friend doing this nowadays than a bank lol


----------



## J-Machine (Oct 9, 2018)

kumikochan said:


> Obama is a capitalist idiot. To do a 5 minute speech at the university in ghent he asked 600 000 Euro wich is almost 700 000 dollar wich they thankfully declined afterwards


he's that expensive cause he's a high profile person who needs security everywhere he goes


----------



## SG854 (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> It's true. I also find it charming how basic of an investment it is. It's probably safer to go to a friend doing this nowadays than a bank lol


A lot of problems you can trace back to government intervention.

Living in San Francisco is so expensive because people are paying more for land then the actual house due to land restriction laws. Rising population and unable to build houses equals more money to pay for homes, supply and demand. If we get government out and allow people to build more houses, housing prices will fall.

Open Space Laws, Zoning Laws, Height Restrictions, Minimum Lot Size Laws, Historical Preservation Laws, Building Permit Limits, Farmland Preservation Laws. All are factors.

Dallas and Houston has some of the cheapest housing prices and they have no laws restricting land. The same house in San Francisco built in Houston would be a lot cheaper.

This was the beginning of the cause of the 2008 recession. People becoming desperate then government intervening in the housing market to increase home ownership to fix a government created problem.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Well that's wrong. The banks would have failed and new ones that didn't take risks would take their places. Just giving money to companies doesn't fix and issue. It's like giving a treat to a dog who just pissed on the carpet, telling it "Ok I'll give you this if you promise not to do it again"


If it was just the couple of banks at stake I'd agree with you, but as I said before, they were the first couple dominoes.  If we had let them fall it was potentially _all_ banking at risk and thus a total worldwide economic collapse at risk.  In that sense they were literally "too big to fail."  I agree it's a failure on our part for letting them get that big and influential in the first place.



Attacker3 said:


> If we take Walmart's CEO's salary of 21 million and divide that by 30 thousand and it looks like if he didn't get paid that much he would be able to help 733.3 of his 1.5 million employees be $8000 over the poverty line.


I suggested taking from total profit though, not directly from the CEO's pocket.  That's where it would go otherwise.



Attacker3 said:


> Inflation would take root then. You'd have Cost-Push, caused by the increased cost of production, as well as Demand-Pull inflation, caused by the increased demand of goods by the people who have more money to blow.


That sounds largely like a boost to the economy.  Maybe slightly pricier goods, but everybody can still buy a lot more, and thus we have to produce more.



Attacker3 said:


> You're correct but you missed the point. The government was doing extensive investigations on them to see if they were discriminating against minorities. In fear that they would be hit by a huge lawsuit, they decided to give out loans to literally everyone just so they could say "hey look government you don't have to sue us, look at us giving loans to all races!".


Government did not tell them to issue predatory loans, that was of their own volition.  Not that GWB's governmental policies helped the situation, I'm sure, but as usual it was more about the corporate world trying to find a way to skirt the rules placed on them.



SG854 said:


> It was not caused by the Free Market it was caused by government intervention. If government never intervened in the first place this would've never happened.
> Free market does not take risky loans because they wouldn't survive long. It was government backing them that they were able to do this. And law suits meant they were forced to make these loans.


Government had to put regulations in place to keep these industries from doing the exact same thing again right afterward.  Trump has already repealed some of those regulations.  Of course they'll take risks if it means potentially larger profits, the resulting fines/payouts are never large enough to be a deterrent.


----------



## kumikochan (Oct 9, 2018)

J-Machine said:


> he's that expensive cause he's a high profile person who needs security everywhere he goes


There are tons of other high profile leaders who don't do that or ask that amount of money.


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> If it was just the couple of banks at stake I'd agree with you, but as I said before, they were the first couple dominoes. If we had let them fall it was potentially _all_ banking at risk and thus a total worldwide economic collapse at risk.



But it wasn't all of them, and an economic collapse wouldn't be as bad as you think. Catastrophic, yes, but not apocalyptic. We might see a huge recession even, but after that we'd see a fucking huge economic boom as everything returns to normal. The thing is, you can't coddle the economy, it will sort itself out. The "invisible hand" is actually just the wants and needs of the consumer, and those wants and needs will set the economy straight.



Xzi said:


> That sounds largely like a boost to the economy. Maybe slightly pricier goods, but everybody can still buy a lot more, and thus we have to produce more.



You heavily misunderstand supply and demand economics. There's a reason that Demand-Pull inflation happens, and it's because companies cannot keep up with the increased demand with their supply. Doing that would probably require up to a decade of pre-planning, and that's just not gonna work out. You can't just introduce more money into the customer's hands and not also increase the amount of goods the business have. They're gonna raise prices to make sure that they don't ever run out of goods.

I'll talk to you later, some thing just came up. It's always fun debating with you Xzi.


----------



## AkikoKumagara (Oct 9, 2018)

Wew, by the time I hit page 6 it became a bunch of racial things not even relevant to the topic and certainly not something I'd like to try and change anyone's opinion on...
I'm pulling out before I'm tempted to read more and melt my brain cells.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 9, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> But it wasn't all of them, and an economic collapse wouldn't be as bad as you think. Catastrophic, yes, but not apocalyptic. We might see a huge recession even, but after that we'd see a fucking huge economic boom as everything returns to normal. The thing is, you can't coddle the economy, it will sort itself out. The "invisible hand" is actually just the wants and needs of the consumer, and those wants and needs will set the economy straight.


The economy would no longer exist in its current form if all banking was to collapse.  Which might be a good thing in the long-term, I'm not sure, but I'm just saying that there would have been no "recovery" in any sense of the word.



Attacker3 said:


> You heavily misunderstand supply and demand economics. There's a reason that Demand-Pull inflation happens, and it's because companies cannot keep up with the increased demand with their supply. Doing that would probably require up to a decade of pre-planning, and that's just not gonna work out. You can't just introduce more money into the customer's hands and not also increase the amount of goods the business have. They're gonna raise prices to make sure that they don't ever run out of goods.


Well it's not like demand for _everything_ magically goes up with wage increases.  Everybody still eats the same amount of food they did before.  There'd still be a pretty big gap between rich and poor, just not _as_ big.  McDonald's employees still wouldn't be able to afford yachts, but they'd no longer be dependent on government assistance either, and that's the big takeaway.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 10, 2018)

The crazy extreme left is a huge problem, Antifa and BLM, they are getting real violent.
Rand Pauls wife has to sleep with a gun. And Rand Paul was assaulted and ended up in a hospital with 6 broken ribs by an angry liberal. 

College campuses end up in riots all because a conservative wanted to share his views. Maybe about how Affirmative Action leads to less blacks to graduating because they get mismatched to colleges. They are pushed into a prestigious college to meat quotas by lowering the test standard, but they end up failing all courses because its moving at a pace they can't keep up with, and waste thousands of dollars. And getting rid of affirmative action in California actual lead to more blacks graduating college because they are in colleges that matches their learning pace. Will the extreme left know this view point from a Republican? No, because they are to busy screaming them down and taking Affirmative Action away from Blacks because Republicans are evil.

A Bernie Sanders supporter shot a republican congressman with a rifle. These people think they are doing good for this country. Instead of a simply my beliefs are different from yours they form mobs and attack people.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 10, 2018)

SG854 said:


> The crazy extreme left is a huge problem, Antifa and BLM, they are getting real violent.


Please.  Two-thirds of terrorist acts in 2017 came from people classified as right-wing extremists, with the remaining ~33% split between Muslim and left-wing terrorist acts.



			
				SPL Center said:
			
		

> Researchers and journalists for the news site Quartz said they used data compiled by the Global Terrorism Database that has tabulated terrorist events around the world since 1970. The database is supported by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), affiliated with the University of Maryland.
> 
> Globally, terrorist attacks dropped from about 17,000 in 2014 to about 11,000 in 2017, including a 40 percent decline in the Middle East, according to Quartz's analysis of the START data.
> 
> ...



https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch...hirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists

Again, nobody is endorsing any form of extremism, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the facts on where it's coming from and how many attacks there have been.  Right-wingers are obviously going to feel emboldened to live out whatever ghoulish power fantasies they might have with "their guy" in office.


----------



## brickmii82 (Oct 10, 2018)

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...k-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/

I'll just leave this here ...


Edit: In regards to the OP, if Antifa is supposed to be an ideological movement rather than a bunch of thugs looking for excuses to punch people and hit them with bike locks, then the non-violent need to become the vocal majority within it. As it stands they look like simple criminals.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 10, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...k-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/
> 
> I'll just leave this here ...
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more. c:


----------



## Attacker3 (Oct 10, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Please. Two-thirds of terrorist acts in 2017 came from people classified as right-wing extremists, with the remaining ~33% split between Muslim and left-wing terrorist acts.


I don't know, the GTD doesn't have an entry about the teenagers in Chicago kidnapping an autistic boy and screaming "FUCK DONALD TRUMP" with him tied up while they beat him so I'm not sure how accurate it is when it comes to recording both left versus right terrorist incidents.

And the weird thing is about your source, is that I did the exact same search on the GTD while checking all the criteria for terrorism and excluding ambiguous cases, while also including unsuccessful attacks, and lo and behold, there are 49 total incidents in 2017 in the USA. Yes, there are very many right wing terrorist incidents, but most of them amount to vandalism. What I really find funny is things where the only evidence was a note which just screams insurance fraud to me. Taking those out of the equation, as well as the unknowns, you have 28 total terror attacks where the group of the perpetrator isn't a guess or isn't known. The thing is most of the right wing stuff on here is terrorism for sure, but some retard shooting a pellet gun at a mosque's windows? That's 3 of the right wing terrorist attacks. Islamic and left wing is on average more violent and cause more deaths than right wing terrorism.

Also I disagree with this report's classification of the incel. He was mentally ill and was very lonely, classifying himself as an incel. Because of this, he probably gravitated towards many of the more nasty political groups on the right just so he could feel accepted. Do I think he was a white supremacist? I don't know, but he definitely joined these groups and repeated these ideas due to social ostracization. When you see incel, don't think "oh man a white supremacist" or "oh what a loser", invite them to play a fucking match of fortnite or something and build them up, because they're putting up a false facade of hate to mask their loneliness. That's how you fix most issues in life. Tirade over.

And I have to ask, when ANTIFA arrives and starts attacking groups like the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer or even people who aren't part of a group it isn't considered a terrorist attack? How much do you want to bet that this will be included in 2018's terrorist report if they don't add literal kidnapping and torture of autistic people to their list?


----------



## Clydefrosch (Oct 13, 2018)

So, this apparently happened.
Fox News cries wolf on Antifa for the nth time, with the only crazy person in sight being right wing neo-nazi proud boys founder Gavin Mcinnes swinging a sword (and police just letting him drive off). 
Antifa attacks again — swords and vandalism at New York GOP office @FoxNewsNight pic.twitter.com/N4Q5MWKuK0— Fox News (@FoxNews) October 13, 2018


Also, about 20 more of his proud boys attacking 3 people.
But yeah, the left is so bad and scary.
Right from their Facebook page: Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/leftkist/status/1050973870511939584


----------



## the_randomizer (Oct 13, 2018)

ANTIFA can burn in hell for all I care. What a waste of oxygen those lowlifes are.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 13, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> So, this apparently happened.
> Fox News cries wolf on Antifa for the nth time, with the only crazy person in sight being right wing neo-nazi proud boys founder Gavin Mcinnes swinging a sword (and police just letting him drive off).
> https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1050953019708375041
> 
> ...


Do you realize how annoying you are? The video shows no proof that they started what happened but they sure as hell finished it.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Oct 13, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Do you realize how annoying you are? The video shows no proof that they started what happened but they sure as hell finished it.


Annoying? Of course the truth is annoying. It always interferes with your bullshit narratives. 

But of course, you are saying the most likely story here is three people just viciously attack a group of 20! people known for their violent behavior, out of the blue, despite them being just 3 and unarmed and everything. So all the poor selfidentifying neo nazi white nationalists did was they defend themselves while sluring like the neo nazi scum they are, ultimately kicking people as they lay on the ground and then boast about it on their online meeting place.
That is what you believe happened here. Because what else would you believe when you're the same type of scum as they are.

And your propaganda network implying that violent left wing protesters were bringing out swords, when it clearly was the right, that is not at all concerning. And doesn't put the whole right wing 'antifa is terrorism' fear campaign into perspective.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 13, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> Annoying? Of course the truth is annoying. It always interferes with your bullshit narratives.
> 
> But of course, you are saying the most likely story here is three people just viciously attack a group of 20! people known for their violent behavior, out of the blue, despite them being just 3 and unarmed and everything. So all the poor selfidentifying neo nazi white nationalists did was they defend themselves while sluring like the neo nazi scum they are, ultimately kicking people as they lay on the ground and then boast about it on their online meeting place.
> That is what you believe happened here. Because what else would you believe when you're the same type of scum as they are.
> ...


What's annoying are your lies and the propaganda you spread. The left are much more violent than the right has ever been. The left verbally and physically attack people who don't agree with their ridiculous and violent rhetoric, destroy private property, block traffic, promote illegal immigrants swarming into the country, etc. The proud boys are not neo-nazi's and have different racial groups in their organization. The only scum is antifa, black lives matter, and the people who agree with their ideology. American patriots and European patriots have waited long enough and we will defend ourselves. The left hates white people and I am here to say that I am a proud white man as well and I have no guilt but pride in my race and my country.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 14, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> What's annoying are your lies and the propaganda you spread. The left are much more violent than the right has ever been. The left verbally and physically attack people who don't agree with their ridiculous and violent rhetoric, destroy private property, block traffic, promote illegal immigrants swarming into the country, etc. The proud boys are not neo-nazi's and have different racial groups in their organization. The only scum is antifa, black lives matter, and the people who agree with their ideology. American patriots and European patriots have waited long enough and we will defend ourselves. The left hates white people and I am here to say that I am a proud white man as well and I have no guilt but pride in my race and my country.


You don't get to cry about Antifa if you're saying we should support another extremist group.  You don't get to bully others and then claim yourself as the victim.  I'm fully aware that the Republican leadership uses this tactic all the time, but the general populace isn't supposed to be as ass-backward as congress is.

If you support extremism in any form, you're encouraging extremism in opposition to that as well.  Hypocrisy and double-standards won't benefit you in the end.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You don't get to cry about Antifa if you're saying we should support another extremist group.  You don't get to bully others and then claim yourself as the victim.  I'm fully aware that the Republican leadership uses this tactic all the time, but the general populace isn't supposed to be as ass-backward as congress is.
> 
> If you support extremism in any form, you're encouraging extremism in opposition to that as well.  Hypocrisy and double-standards won't benefit you in the end.


When have I said that I or anyone should support extremism?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 14, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> When have I said that I or anyone should support extremism?


You just said you're all for the "Proud Boys" attacking people without provocation, like what occurred in New York.  Basically you're just mirroring Fox News' opinion when they tried to frame these nutjobs as the victims.  Well, first they tried to suggest that the Proud Boys were Antifa, and then switched to the victim narrative when that lie didn't work.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You just said you're all for the "Proud Boys" attacking people without provocation, like what occurred in New York.  Basically you're just mirroring Fox News' opinion when they tried to frame these nutjobs as the victims.  Well, first they tried to suggest that the Proud Boys were Antifa, and then switched to the victim narrative when that lie didn't work.


I said that I don't know who started the fight but it looked like the Proud Boys finished it. I never said that I supported people fighting in any way. Don't make assumptions. It would be better next time to ask if that was my intention.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 14, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I said that I don't know who started the fight but it looked like the Proud Boys finished it. I never said that I supported people fighting in any way. Don't make assumptions. It would be better next time to ask if that was my intention.


Still sounds like praise to me, but that's fine if you want to walk it back.  Both sides of the political spectrum are equally capable of buying into an extremist mindset, and the 'Proud Boys' fit that distinction just as well as Antifa.  FYI the Proud Boys have ludicrous restrictions on masturbation (although butt stuff is apparently fine), they walk around chanting the names of cereal brands, and their leader showed up with a sword at this event, supposedly to recreate a historical Japanese murder on stage.  They've all gone off the deep end, and that's what makes them dangerous.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Still sounds like praise to me, but that's fine if you want to walk it back.  Both sides of the political spectrum are equally capable of buying into an extremist mindset, and the 'Proud Boys' fit that distinction just as well as Antifa.  FYI the Proud Boys have ludicrous restrictions on masturbation (although butt stuff is apparently fine), they walk around chanting the names of cereal brands, and their leader showed up with a sword at this event, supposedly to recreate a historical Japanese murder on stage.  They've all gone off the deep end, and that's what makes them dangerous.


It seems like you are making an assumption that I somehow support the Proud Boys? I don't. I don't know enough about them to even give it any thought. I agree with you that both political parties are capable of having extreme mindsets. No doubt about it.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 14, 2018)

The left treats antifa thugs like they aren't a problem. Then they pretend to give the opposite treatment whenever a nutcase from the right does the same thing. And then they're surprised when the middleground shifts to the right.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 14, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It seems like you are making an assumption that I somehow support the Proud Boys? I don't.


Okay, I was just kinda wondering because this post:



PanTheFaun said:


> What's annoying are your lies and the propaganda you spread. The left are much more violent than the right has ever been. The left verbally and physically attack people who don't agree with their ridiculous and violent rhetoric, destroy private property, block traffic, promote illegal immigrants swarming into the country, etc. The proud boys are not neo-nazi's and have different racial groups in their organization. The only scum is antifa, black lives matter, and the people who agree with their ideology. American patriots and European patriots have waited long enough and we will defend ourselves. The left hates white people and I am here to say that I am a proud white man as well and I have no guilt but pride in my race and my country.


Seemed to imply you thought it was only the left/Antifa which is capable of extremism.  I also don't agree with the idea that the left "hates white people," they've made a white person president all but one time, and we still have a lot of white people left in the various branches too.  The right isn't threatened only by racial equality in politics/law though, they're also threatened by gender equality.   You can't always take everybody's feelings into account, but I think the victim mentality is driven largely by various online/cable right-wing media outlets.



Song of storms said:


> The left treats antifa thugs like they aren't a problem. Then they pretend to give the opposite treatment whenever a nutcase from the right does the same thing. And then they're surprised when the middleground shifts to the right.


You could shift around a couple words and it would make just as much, if not more sense:


Song of storms said:


> The right treats proud boys thugs like they aren't a problem. Then they pretend to give the opposite treatment whenever a nutcase from the left does the same thing. And then they're surprised when the middleground shifts to the left.


Not that this is necessarily true.  However, left-leaning viewpoints are a vast majority in this country.  They just don't often come out to vote in big enough numbers, especially in mid-terms.  At least it looks like they have a good shot at taking a majority in Congress, maybe some state governor's races.  I suppose in the end it depends on how, to steal a phrase, _rigged_ the election turns out to be.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Okay, I was just kinda wondering because this post:
> 
> 
> Seemed to imply you thought it was only the left/Antifa which is capable of extremism.  I also don't agree with the idea that the left "hates white people," they've made a white person president all but one time, and we still have a lot of white people left in the various branches too.  The right isn't threatened only by racial equality in politics/law though, they're also threatened by gender equality.   You can't always take everybody's feelings into account, but I think the victim mentality is driven largely by various online/cable right-wing media outlets.
> ...


Alrighty. Let's agree to disagree.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Okay, I was just kinda wondering because this post:
> 
> 
> Seemed to imply you thought it was only the left/Antifa which is capable of extremism.  I also don't agree with the idea that the left "hates white people," they've made a white person president all but one time, and we still have a lot of white people left in the various branches too.  The right isn't threatened only by racial equality in politics/law though, they're also threatened by gender equality.   You can't always take everybody's feelings into account, but I think the victim mentality is driven largely by various online/cable right-wing media outlets.
> ...


The difference is that any person will look at the nutcases and treat them as such, while the left will go on with whataboutism, effectively putting people on a double standard.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 14, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> The difference is that any person will look at the nutcases and treat them as such, while the left will go on with whataboutism, effectively putting people on a double standard.


You'd have to give an example.  I often see a lot of whining about a victim complex from the extreme right.  That feeling of "oppression" seems to stem mostly from their inability to express racism/sexism in public, so it's hard to feel sympathy for them, that being the case.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You'd have to give an example.  I often see a lot of whining about a victim complex from the extreme right.  That feeling of "oppression" seems to stem mostly from their inability to express racism/sexism in public, so it's hard to feel sympathy for them, that being the case.


You make a lot of assumptions. Whites are openly talked down upon in the media and such. It happens with no other race. Its racist and white people on the right are justified in their anger.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 14, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Whites are openly talked down upon in the media and such. It happens with no other race. Its racist and white people on the right are justified in their anger.


All whites =/= extreme right.  And again, give an example, I've got no idea what you're talking about.  Everybody gets "talked down upon" in various forms of media, that's pretty much what the entire tabloid business is about and most of social media.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You'd have to give an example.  I often see a lot of whining about a victim complex from the extreme right.  That feeling of "oppression" seems to stem mostly from their inability to express racism/sexism in public, so it's hard to feel sympathy for them, that being the case.


- Mere hours after a terrorist attack in France, people feel the need to tweet #fuckparis for daring to stir attention away from the Black Lives Matter movement
http://www.citypages.com/news/the-fuckparis-hashtag-sends-the-internet-into-a-fury-7836574
- Feminists force scientist that has just landed a comet to apologize in tears for a shirt a female friend of his made
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-comet-dr-matt-taylor-apology-sexist-shirt
- Google sued for discriminating white and asian men
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/2/1...cruiter-hiring-reverse-discrimination-lawsuit
- Woman getting pepper-sprayed during protest while being interviewed
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/...prayed-at-u-c-berkeley-riot-but-not-by-police
- Vice "journalist" making an article claiming that you can't be racist towards white people
https://www.vice.com/sv/article/kwz...please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real
- South african politican Julius Malema says that he didn't call for a white genocide "for now" and that he "can't guarantee what happens in the future"
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/20...-of-white-people-at-least-for-now_a_23456601/
- Minority waitress gets "we don't tip terrorists" written on bill. Turns out she made it up for attention
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-...ip-terrorist-note-on-receipt-restaurant-says/
- Antifa attacks police and journalists during riot
https://www.vox.com/identities/2018...s-protests-charlottesville-dc-unite-the-right
- Andrew King admits of drawing swastikas by himself after claiming racist attack by the right
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/New-York-man-admits-to-painting-swastikas-on-his-own-home-504391
- White people "invited" to pay drinks for black people in a campaign for "reparation"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...drinks-free-bar-oregon-portland-a8371786.html
- Black Lives Matter demands things from white people (mostly money)
https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/
- Man attacked in subway for "being white"
http://www.fox5ny.com/news/man-attacked-on-bus-for-being-white-
- Woman shouts "I hate white people" before starting an attack on the bus
https://wjla.com/news/crime/black-woman-ride-on-bus-attack-white-people


Various trash articles:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/13/...ticing-something-new-their-own-whiteness.html
https://www.theroot.com/white-people-are-cowards-1826958780
https://medium.com/@beyondtherobot/hey-white-people-heres-what-we-owe-people-of-color-77ca16f1797b
https://arrow-journal.org/why-people-of-color-need-spaces-without-white-people/




Now, try to play the reverse game with these articles and imagine what would have happened have the roles been switched. I can assure you that many of these "journalists" wouldn't have a job anymore and there would be worldwide rage. I have a lot of articles against feminism too, but I don't want to be called an incel by a staffer again and have her boyfriend white knighting me for posting facts.

People are tired of double standards and to be misrepresented by clearly racist people that claim that whites can't be the target of racism. Of course the right is winning: you fucked up. You can't swift these things under the rug in the name of "not everyone is like this" while bashing white people as a whole whenever there is a single episode of racism in the entire country. This is why the left is losing support.

Do you want to fight for inequality? Stop pretending that the other side isn't being viciously attacked.


EDIT: let's not forget that calling a black person a "n****" is (rightfully) wrong, but calling a white person a "cracker" isn't. And it's apparently OK to assault people for calling someone a n****.
https://blackamericaweb.com/2018/08...the-n-word-and-ends-up-in-the-hospital-video/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/11/n-word-not-same-as-cracker/


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 14, 2018)

Xzi said:


> All whites =/= extreme right.  And again, give an example, I've got no idea what you're talking about.  Everybody gets "talked down upon" in various forms of media, that's pretty much what the entire tabloid business is about and most of social media.


Do you see the entirety of the blacks, Asians, Arabs, Jews, etc. told that they should have guilt? That their DNA is an abomination? That if they love their race or try to defend it that they are a supremacist? Nope. Only white people.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Do you see the entirety of the blacks, Asians, Arabs, Jews, etc. told that they should have guilt? That their DNA is an abomination? That if they love their race or try to defend it that they are a supremacist? Nope. Only white people.


This whole thing about trying to see which side is more violent to prove not to vote for the other side is ridiculous. This is why I don’t choose any political sides. I don’t call myself a Democrat or a Republican. I focus more on policies and debating those policies. That way I avoid party association and assumptions.

Like for example I support Trumps tax cuts since it brings more tax revenue. But I don’t support his tarrifs. I’m sometimes for Trump and against him. 

It’s obvious mainstream media, Hollywood and Universities are more left leaning. Having this power and support is hugely influential. The fact that you don’t get to hear equal representation of Republican values, and have to look for their opinions on your own. From hearing many Republican values they seem very sensible and based on facts. And many are not racist at all.



Song of storms said:


> - Mere hours after a terrorist attack in France, people feel the need to tweet #fuckparis for daring to stir attention away from the Black Lives Matter movement
> http://www.citypages.com/news/the-fuckparis-hashtag-sends-the-internet-into-a-fury-7836574
> - Feminists force scientist that has just landed a comet to apologize in tears for a shirt a female friend of his made
> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-comet-dr-matt-taylor-apology-sexist-shirt
> ...


Everyday feminism is a funny site. I sometimes go there to see what wacky thing they have going on there. I remember they were offering a paid training class service where they heal you from “Toxic Whitness.” And yes they called it that.

I sometimes go to feminists sites because they make me laugh.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> This whole thing about trying to see which side is more violent to prove not to vote for the other side is ridiculous. This is why I don’t choose any political sides. I don’t call myself a Democrat or a Republican. I focus more on policies and debating those policies. That way I avoid party association and assumptions.
> 
> Like for example I support Trumps tax cuts since it brings more tax revenue. But I don’t support his tarrifs. I’m sometimes for Trump and against him.
> 
> ...


Well I'm not Republican so that really doesn't matter. I was talking about race related issues.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

except that the USA went to war with Nazi's before. And a lot of wonderful American people fought them and gave up their lives in WW2.

to compare one to the other 2 is a little Jarring.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> except that the USA went to war with Nazi's before. And a lot of wonderful American people fought them and gave up their lives in WW2.
> 
> to compare one to the other 2 is a little Jarring.


Except the fact that these people aren't the nazi's.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

no but they worship and live by the ideology begging for the day where they can return to having power. quite terrifying if you ask me.

and with all due respect, i would not go to bat for them under any circumstances, not sure you would be batting for them.

also if they call themselves Nazi's why should i think any different?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> no but they worship and live by the ideology begging for the day where they can return to having power. quite terrifying if you ask me.
> 
> and with all due respect, i would not go to bat for them under any circumstances, not sure you would be batting for them.


I don't agree with them at all but I also don't agree to shoot them for their ideology.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

im not talking about shooting.
but comparing one group to the other 2 is jarring. go read my first post again.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> im not talking about shooting.
> but comparing one group to the other 2 is jarring. go read my first post again.


I can compare anything together just like anybody else can. Antifa loves communism and communism took more lives than Nazi's ever did.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

I am not saying you cant compare. I am just saying it is Jarring.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> I am not saying you cant compare. I am just saying it is Jarring.


That's your opinion. c:


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

thats correct hence why is i said "I am saying"
I do not understand why the defensive posture?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> thats correct hence why is i said "I am saying"
> I do not understand why the defensive posture?


Because I'm allowed to defend my opinions? I'm not understanding why you think it's jarring to compare neo-nazi's that support nazism to antifa that supports communism?


----------



## SG854 (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Well I'm not Republican so that really doesn't matter. I was talking about race related issues.


I was mostly talking about the topic of this thread. They usually make a distinction far left and far right when associating different groups like Nazis, Blm and Antifa.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> I was mostly talking about the topic of this thread. They usually make a distinction far left and far right when associating different groups like Nazis, Blm and Antifa.


All I'm saying is that Antifa has done a lot of horrible things and that they just so happen to identify as the left.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

you are absolutely allowed to defend your position. However that is different from getting defensive.
when you said "thats your opinion" you seemed to be stating the obvious (the name of this thread)

as for my issue is that 2 groups do not compare to the other. There could be essays written as to why, but to keep my story short and sweet and to an ultimately strong and valid point:

This country went to literal war with one ideology. where thousands of people lost their lives to make sure such ideology did not continue doing more damage. Also only one of them literally attempted Genocide.

Also i do not think all elements of BLM or ANTIFA are saints but to compare them to a group that took pride in trying to commit genocide. seems odd to me.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> you are absolutely allowed to defend your position. However that is different from getting defensive.
> when you said "thats your opinion" you seemed to be stating the obvious (the name of this thread)
> 
> as for my issue is that 2 groups do not compare to the other. There could be essays written as to why, but to keep my story short and sweet and to an ultimately strong and valid point:
> ...


Haha whether you give it the name genocide or not more people were murdered during WW2 with communism. The Jewish Bolsheviks murdered millions of white Christians for just that reason alone. I also don't believe that there were gas chambers either but that's just from evidence I have found. Just my opinion. c:


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 15, 2018)

Ah, i see. you do not believe the holocaust happened. I do not believe anything i could ever say to someone over the internet could change their heart or opinion on something such as that. 
I bid you a good day.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> Ah, i see. you do not believe the holocaust happened. I do not believe anything i could ever say to someone over the internet could change their heart or opinion on something such as that.
> I bid you a good day.


Alrighty then. c:


----------



## SG854 (Oct 15, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> you are absolutely allowed to defend your position. However that is different from getting defensive.
> when you said "thats your opinion" you seemed to be stating the obvious (the name of this thread)
> 
> as for my issue is that 2 groups do not compare to the other. There could be essays written as to why, but to keep my story short and sweet and to an ultimately strong and valid point:
> ...


People get too caught up on comparisons. Blm and Antifa are bad for many reasons on their own. From lying about cop killings, to riots without evidence. And it has produced negative effects.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> People get too caught up on comparisons. Blm and Antifa are bad for many reasons on their own. From lying about cop killings, to riots without evidence. And it has produced negative effects.


There is nothing wrong with comparing.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> There is nothing wrong with comparing.


I guess so. It provides context.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> I guess so. It provides context.


Exactly. c:


----------



## the_randomizer (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> This whole thing about trying to see which side is more violent to prove not to vote for the other side is ridiculous. This is why I don’t choose any political sides. I don’t call myself a Democrat or a Republican. I focus more on policies and debating those policies. That way I avoid party association and assumptions.
> 
> Like for example I support Trumps tax cuts since it brings more tax revenue. But I don’t support his tarrifs. I’m sometimes for Trump and against him.
> 
> ...



Isn't it also the left-wing/progressive nutjob minority groups the ones that get so easily asshurt that we have to censor every damn thing the majority of people say?  Let's all just agree that either side of the political extreme is something that should be shunned.


----------



## Captain_N (Oct 15, 2018)

If i ever get stuck in my car surrounded by them jack ass protesters and they start rocking my car and/or hitting it, im pressing the gas and driving over them. I have the right to protect myself.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Do you see the entirety of the blacks, Asians, Arabs, Jews, etc. told that they should have guilt? That their DNA is an abomination? That if they love their race or try to defend it that they are a supremacist? Nope. Only white people.


This is simply delusional on so many levels.  I've never been told to feel guilt over my whiteness by anybody, so clearly that's a narrative being fed to you by certain media.



Song of storms said:


> Now, try to play the reverse game with these articles and imagine what would have happened have the roles been switched. I can assure you that many of these "journalists" wouldn't have a job anymore and there would be worldwide rage.


The roles _are_ switched in far-right wing media.  Those "journalists" continue to have a job specifically for that reason, and the world already hates us for our authoritarian tendencies.  Many of your examples can be classified as extremism, and that I do denounce in any form.  However, to paint fringe elements and some opinion pieces/magazine articles as a majority of the left's mindset is silly.  It'd be like painting the majority of the right as neo-nazi Q-believing nutjobs, which you'd obviously be against.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> This is simply delusional on so many levels.  I've never been told to feel guilt over my whiteness by anybody, so clearly that's a narrative being fed to you by certain media.
> 
> 
> The roles _are_ switched in far-right wing media.  Those "journalists" continue to have a job specifically for that reason, and the world already hates us for our authoritarian tendencies.  Many of your examples can be classified as extremism, and that I do denounce in any form.  However, to paint fringe elements and some opinion pieces/magazine articles as a majority of the left's mindset is silly.  It'd be like painting the majority of the right as neo-nazi Q-believing nutjobs, which you'd obviously be against.


Yeah... that's what I said. The media displays news to millions of people and of course most people are going to believe what they are being told. I have also gotten into disputes with people before where they told me I should feel shameful that my people did certain acts in the past. No guilt for me. c:


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> This is simply delusional on so many levels.  I've never been told to feel guilt over my whiteness by anybody, so clearly that's a narrative being fed to you by certain media.
> 
> 
> The roles _are_ switched in far-right wing media.  Those "journalists" continue to have a job specifically for that reason, and the world already hates us for our authoritarian tendencies.  Many of your examples can be classified as extremism, and that I do denounce in any form.  However, to paint fringe elements and some opinion pieces/magazine articles as a majority of the left's mindset is silly.  It'd be like painting the majority of the right as neo-nazi Q-believing nutjobs, which you'd obviously be against.


Except that the examples I posted were episodes that all went unpunished. That south African politician is still in charge of his position, hoards of nazisheeps are still attacking anyone over something as petty as fucking clothes trying to move attention away from their outstanding work and so on. These things happen and go vastly unpunished, but the left never says anything about it. That south african asshole should have been thrown in jail for inciting a genocide while in a position of power but instead an act this awful goes unnoticed. But the left media flourish on the shit carpet that's reports about what Trump ate for dinner.

Again, this is why a lot of people would rather go with the part of the government that they would never vote, but they have to choose between someone who makes a fool of himself on Twitter and someone who doesn't mind if whites get the rope. And the more people downplay or ridiculise these issues, the more commonmen will switch to the far right.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> These things happen and go vastly unpunished, but the left never says anything about it.


Most of the outlets you posted were traditionally left-leaning, so we wouldn't know about those stories without the left saying something about it.



Song of storms said:


> Again, this is why a lot of people would rather go with the part of the government that they would never vote, but they have to choose between someone who makes a fool of himself on Twitter and someone who doesn't mind if whites get the rope. And the more people downplay or ridiculise these issues, the more commonmen will switch to the far right.


Hillary Clinton is white.  There was never any threat of whites "getting the rope" from either candidate, again this is a victim delusion.  Which is precisely what drives people away from the far right, hypocrisy in how they treat actual victims of crimes versus playing the victim card whenever it's convenient to cover for some controversial social views.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 15, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Isn't it also the left-wing/progressive nutjob minority groups the ones that get so easily asshurt that we have to censor every damn thing the majority of people say?  Let's all just agree that either side of the political extreme is something that should be shunned.


Ya, that’s a problem especially in college campuses.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Most of the outlets you posted were traditionally left-leaning, so we wouldn't know about those stories without the left saying something about it.
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton is white.  There was never any threat of whites "getting the rope" from either candidate, again this is a victim delusion.  Which is precisely what drives people away from the far right, hypocrisy in how they treat actual victims of crimes versus playing the victim card whenever it's convenient to cover for some controversial social views.


They only went for Hillary Clinton because she was appealing to the things they wanted and that she was the only candidate at the time representing them. You're not always right so stop acting like you have the answers for everything. It's annoying.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Most of the outlets you posted were traditionally left-leaning, so we wouldn't know about those stories without the left saying something about it.
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton is white.  There was never any threat of whites "getting the rope" from either candidate, again this is a victim delusion.  Which is precisely what drives people away from the far right, hypocrisy in how they treat actual victims of crimes versus playing the victim card whenever it's convenient to cover for some controversial social views.


You mean the same person that said that "women have always been the primary victims of war"?

Or someone like this democrat that used a racial slur as an attempt to hurt another candidate?
https://eu.freep.com/story/news/loc...ettie-cook-scott-stephanie-change/1010651002/

Make no mistake that, had the left no opposition, we would have a situation the same as South Africa. This happens when you let one side take everything, with part of it doing its best to oppress the other as an attempt to fight a bogey man. The fact that you're talking about "victim mentality" makes me think that you haven't read any of the links I posted earlier.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> They only went for Hillary Clinton because she was appealing to the things they wanted and that she was the only candidate at the time representing them. You're not always right so stop acting like you have the answers for everything. It's annoying.


What?  I didn't say anything about which votes went for Clinton.  Yeah, she won the popular vote, but she definitely didn't win a majority of whites.



PanTheFaun said:


> Make no mistake that, had the left no opposition, we would have a situation the same as South Africa.


I can only use the term 'delusional' so many times, jesus man.  Whites are still a vast majority of representation in both parties.  Being a Democratic Republic is what is supposed to keep us from a South Africa situation, but AFAIK even they don't have children in interment camps so at the moment the US has little moral authority to reprimand any other country for human rights abuses.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> What?  I didn't say anything about which votes went for Clinton.  Yeah, she won the popular vote, but she definitely didn't win a majority of whites.


My point is that a white woman like Hillary tells people that white people are wrong if they support their race and throws us under the bus to get the votes. She tells the liberals what they want to hear at the expense of whites. No other people get backlash like us so openly in the media, newspapers, etc.


----------



## brickmii82 (Oct 15, 2018)

What’re we even discussing anymore? Is it time to shoot someone yet? I bought extra rounds for this civil war so can we get it started already?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> My point is that a white woman like Hillary tells people that white people are wrong if they support their race and throws us under the bus to get the votes. She tells the liberals what they want to hear at the expense of whites. No other people get backlash like us so openly in the media, newspapers, etc.


Yeah...no.  I've never heard her shit talk whites.  You're talking about a fictionalized version of Hillary Clinton that would somehow be more incompetent (yet also more efficiently evil) as president than the reality TV star that currently occupies the white house; that Hillary doesn't exist.  She's a bureaucratic centrist and would've governed as such.  Also, please stop pretending there aren't plenty of white people on the left, because there are.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 15, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> What’re we even discussing anymore? Is it time to shoot someone yet? I bought extra rounds for this civil war so can we get it started already?


Bang Bang

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> What?  I didn't say anything about which votes went for Clinton.  Yeah, she won the popular vote, but she definitely didn't win a majority of whites.
> 
> 
> I can only use the term 'delusional' so many times, jesus man.  Whites are still a vast majority of representation in both parties.  Being a Democratic Republic is what is supposed to keep us from a South Africa situation, but AFAIK even they don't have children in interment camps so at the moment the US has little moral authority to reprimand any other country for human rights abuses.


Popularity doesn’t equate goodness. And doesn’t mean fit to run. You can ask gossiping high school girls about that.

Abraham Lincoln had the lowest approval rating in history. Even lower then Trump.

Hitler had the popular vote.

Jesus Christ was not the most popular. Crowds turned against him. Popularity means nothing.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Yeah...no.  I've never heard her shit talk whites.  You're talking about a fictionalized version of Hillary Clinton that would somehow be more incompetent (yet also more efficiently evil) as president than the reality TV star that currently occupies the white house; that Hillary doesn't exist.  She's a bureaucratic centrist and would've governed as such.  Also, please stop pretending there aren't plenty of white people on the left, because there are.


That version of Hillary does exist and she does talk about whites and of course there are whites on the left. A lot of whites on the left tend to have "white guilt" and talk about how they have to get rid of whiteness. You make way too many assumptions. You don't ask me if I think there are no whites on the left but assume that I think that way. STOP IT! It really hurts your argument when you act like that.


----------



## Pachee (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Ya, that’s a problem especially in college campuses.


I hate it how politics were forced by these people even on private campuses now. My college never had a single bs thing about politics aside from the teachers jokes in classes, it was pretty calm and nice there... Until 2 years ago when i was going to class at night and what i find in front of the building was a pack of idiots with signs protesting IN FAVOR of some politician.
And most of them were students that were getting FREE tuition thanks to a partnership with the gov, so you can see how the bad apples with free time got in.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2018)

SG854 said:


> Popularity doesn’t equate goodness. And doesn’t mean fit to run.


Well then we should probably rework our entire political process, because popularity is how both candidates got through primaries.  This is a good argument against reality TV star candidates though, so I definitely agree to that extent.

If I had my way we'd have roughly twelve political parties and ranked choice voting, which would elect far more representative leaders.  The problem is that this country has largely been far too apathetic in the voting and political process to make even a third party become viable.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

Haha come on. The photo didn't need to be removed. It may not be an image board but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to post a photo here or there.


----------



## Quantumcat (Oct 15, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha come on. The photo didn't need to be removed. It may not be an image board but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to post a photo here or there.


Image-only replies are acceptable only in EoF.



			
				https://gbatemp.net/help/terms said:
			
		

> When replying to a topic, don't; unless you have something meaningful to say or something that will contribute to the discussion. Posts such as "Yes", "I agree", "LOL", "When will it be dumped?" or "When will it be translated?"; and nothing but images/emoticons or internet memes are useless and are wasteful on the servers. This is not GameFAQs or 4chan!


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 15, 2018)

Quantumcat said:


> Image-only replies are acceptable only in EoF.


Alright, alright. My bad.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 15, 2018)

Xzi said:


> What?  I didn't say anything about which votes went for Clinton.  Yeah, she won the popular vote, but she definitely didn't win a majority of whites.
> 
> 
> I can only use the term 'delusional' so many times, jesus man.  Whites are still a vast majority of representation in both parties.  Being a Democratic Republic is what is supposed to keep us from a South Africa situation, but AFAIK even they don't have children in interment camps so at the moment the US has little moral authority to reprimand any other country for human rights abuses.


I mean, I've been citing sources and posting links from the beginning but you keep telling me I'm delusional. Ok then.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 15, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> I mean, I've been citing sources and posting links from the beginning but you keep telling me I'm delusional. Ok then.


None of your sources back the claim that the US is on the verge of white genocide.  That's an extreme level of hyperbole beyond any reasonable line of thought.  About 90% of our government is white.  About 90% of CEOs for major corporations too.  If you want to make such ridiculous claims, you'll have to come up with better examples of white persecution, because opinion pieces hurting the fee-fees of a few white people is not equivalent to genocide.

Now, if DJT were to set policy for whites the way he does for other races/ethnicities, then I'd be more inclined to take your side on this.  There's been no whites-only travel ban, no lying about the death toll of whites from hurricanes, no white people internment camps on the Texas border, no white children being separated from their parents, and no generalizations that whites are all criminals and drug smugglers.  Ya feel me?  Republicans elected a racist and now they want to play the victim card while others are simultaneously being victimized by the government.  The threat of genocide doesn't come from a few fringe individuals, it comes from despotic leaders in government who believe there is no limit to their power.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> None of your sources back the claim that the US is on the verge of white genocide.  That's an extreme level of hyperbole beyond any reasonable line of thought.  About 90% of our government is white.  About 90% of CEOs for major corporations too.  If you want to make such ridiculous claims, you'll have to come up with better examples of white persecution, because opinion pieces hurting the fee-fees of a few white people is not equivalent to genocide.
> 
> Now, if DJT were to set policy for whites the way he does for other races/ethnicities, then I'd be more inclined to take your side on this.  There's been no whites-only travel ban, no lying about the death toll of whites from hurricanes, no white people internment camps on the Texas border, no white children being separated from their parents, and no generalizations that whites are all criminals and drug smugglers.  Ya feel me?  Republicans elected a racist and now they want to play the victim card while others are simultaneously being victimized by the government.  The threat of genocide doesn't come from a few fringe individuals, it comes from despotic leaders in government who believe there is no limit to their power.


Don't change the subject. You requested proof that we are having double standards towards white people and I did it. Now you're claiming that there is no proof for a white genocide? Really?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> None of your sources back the claim that the US is on the verge of white genocide.  That's an extreme level of hyperbole beyond any reasonable line of thought.  About 90% of our government is white.  About 90% of CEOs for major corporations too.  If you want to make such ridiculous claims, you'll have to come up with better examples of white persecution, because opinion pieces hurting the fee-fees of a few white people is not equivalent to genocide.
> 
> Now, if DJT were to set policy for whites the way he does for other races/ethnicities, then I'd be more inclined to take your side on this.  There's been no whites-only travel ban, no lying about the death toll of whites from hurricanes, no white people internment camps on the Texas border, no white children being separated from their parents, and no generalizations that whites are all criminals and drug smugglers.  Ya feel me?  Republicans elected a racist and now they want to play the victim card while others are simultaneously being victimized by the government.  The threat of genocide doesn't come from a few fringe individuals, it comes from despotic leaders in government who believe there is no limit to their power.


White genocide is happening and pretty swiftly at that. With only European countries being flooded by non European peoples systematically, the number of murder rates of whites, low birth rates, and being the minority race on the planet. They publicly announce we will be gone soon.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

while i admittedly dont buy into your whole Genocide idea 

what does "being the minority race on the planet" have to do with the rest of your premise?

legit curious (to probably my own detriment here)


----------



## weatMod (Oct 16, 2018)

Plstic said:


> Why are they shouting that they are white males when they themselves are white males?


because they are not white


----------



## SG854 (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Well then we should probably rework our entire political process, because popularity is how both candidates got through primaries.  This is a good argument against reality TV star candidates though, so I definitely agree to that extent.
> 
> If I had my way we'd have roughly twelve political parties and ranked choice voting, which would elect far more representative leaders.  The problem is that this country has largely been far too apathetic in the voting and political process to make even a third party become viable.


Abraham Lincoln was an interesting case. He was not well liked during his presidency. People thought he was an idiot, uneducated, a threat to American Republic, part of the corrupt politics, and said Abraham Lincoln made us the laughing stock of the world. People printed fake news about him.

He won presidency with only 39.8% of the popular vote. His approval rating was 25%. It wasn’t till he got shot that his popularity went up.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/evidence-unpopular-mr-lincoln

https://knowledgenuts.com/2014/01/02/abraham-lincoln-was-actually-hated-when-president/


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

more like it made sense. the nation was fresh off a civil war sadly.
despite what the media says we are not to the point that most normal every day folk are going to hurt each other.

Also to all of you... Thanksgiving is coming soon. give a hug to someone on the opposite spectrum when they come over for dinner.

The reality is if you only believe in your politics because you "are right everyone else is wrong" you are missing the point. You ought to believe what you do to make the lives better of everyone.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> while i admittedly dont buy into your whole Genocide idea
> 
> what does "being the minority race on the planet" have to do with the rest of your premise?
> 
> legit curious (to probably my own detriment here)


It has nothing to do with white genocide. It has to do with the fact that because we are already the minority of the world it makes it worse when we allow thousands of non European peoples into our countries systematically and who murder whites at record numbers doesn't help with our declining numbers.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Don't change the subject. You requested proof that we are having double standards towards white people and I did it. Now you're claiming that there is no proof for a white genocide? Really?


There are double standards on both sides, I've already conceded that.  I've been directing my replies toward your "white genocide" comment for a bit now.



PanTheFaun said:


> White genocide is happening and pretty swiftly at that.


Then there's always one of you to double down on absolutely ridiculous claims.  Nobody can take you seriously when you say shit like this.  At least you probably have strong enough common sense to not make such outlandish claims in public.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It has nothing to do with white genocide. It has to do with the fact that because we are already the minority of the world it makes it worse when we allow thousands of non European peoples into our countries systematically and who murder whites at record numbers doesn't help with our declining numbers.


that is non-sequitur though...


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There are double standards on both sides, I've already conceded that.  I've been directing my replies toward your "white genocide" comment for a bit now.
> 
> 
> Then there's always one of you to double down on absolutely ridiculous claims.  Nobody can take you seriously when you say shit like this.  At least you probably have strong enough common sense to not make such outlandish claims in public.


Hey! It's the guy that always makes assumptions! How are you? Here is some info for you -


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Hey! It's the guy that always makes assumptions! How are you? Here is some info for you -
> View attachment 146801 View attachment 146799


Going from a claim of white genocide in the US to blaming all of white people's problems on the Jews (who themselves are white) is not helping me take you more seriously.  In general terms, an increase in global immigration can be linked to a rise of regional crises/chaos across the world.  And while other global powers like Russia and China certainly deserve their share of the blame, the US hasn't exactly been shy about stirring various hornet's nests in the Middle East or South America.  Immigration is only going to spike further as climate change causes some areas of the globe to slowly become uninhabitable.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Going from a claim of white genocide in the US to blaming all of white people's problems on the Jews (who themselves are white) is not helping me take you more seriously.  In general terms, an increase in global immigration can be linked to a rise of regional crises/chaos across the world.  And while other global powers like Russia and China certainly deserve their share of the blame, the US hasn't exactly been shy about stirring various hornet's nests in the Middle East or South America.  Immigration is only going to spike further as global warming causes some areas of the globe to slowly become uninhabitable.


You're not always right! Stop! You have to stop this mentality. I don't blame everything on the Jews but it is the Jews that are the leading cause of non European immigrants into white countries. You can say whatever you want but you have no basis for your claims. It's being done on purpose!


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> You're not always right! Stop! You have to stop this mentality. I don't blame everything on the Jews but it is the Jews that are the leading cause of non European immigrants into white countries.


You're just doing anything you can to avoid owning up to the reality that white people cause a majority of our problems.  That's pretty much the case for every race and ethnicity, so there's no need to run from it.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You're just doing anything you can to avoid owning up to the reality that white people cause a majority of our problems.  That's pretty much the case for every race and ethnicity, so there's no need to run from it.


Haha I think you mean the Jews but to each their own. I will agree in years past Europeans have done terrible things but so have other races throughout history. What the Jews are doing now makes what Europeans did look like a picnic. No white guilt buddy. c:


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There are double standards on both sides, I've already conceded that.  I've been directing my replies toward your "white genocide" comment for a bit now.


The "double standard" is mostly done by the left and you haven't said anything about it. I have posted my proof. Where is yours that claims that the right does worse? Where are nazis spreading propaganda using mass media like the left did? Where are all the white politicians calling for a black genocide? Where are all the assaults done to minorities "because they are minorities"?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha I think you mean the Jews but to each their own. I will agree in years past Europeans have done terrible things but so have other races throughout history. What the Jews are doing now makes what Europeans did look like a picnic. No white guilt buddy. c:


I never suggested you feel guilt over being white, you're probably not someone at the top causing problems for the entire nation.  That doesn't mean you should ignore it every time a white guy commits a crime or makes the entire race look bad.



PanTheFaun said:


> Where are all the assaults done to minorities "because they are minorities"?


Obviously you aren't paying attention to current events if you don't realize that type of thing is institutionalized, under this administration more than most previous.  Not to mention I've already posted terror statistics for 2017 showing that right-wing inspired attacks outnumbered left-wing inspired attacks by quite a bit.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I never suggested you feel guilt over being white, you're probably not someone at the top causing problems for the entire nation.  That doesn't mean you should ignore it every time a white guy commits a crime or makes the entire race look bad.


I don't. I'll call them out just like I would anybody else.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I never suggested you feel guilt over being white, you're probably not someone at the top causing problems for the entire nation.  That doesn't mean you should ignore it every time a white guy commits a crime or makes the entire race look bad.


Oh, now white people should feel guilty whenever another white person does something stupid? I wonder if you're putting black people accountable as well. Or people sharing the same political tendencies. Have we ever condemned the African tribes slaughtering villages and catching people of other tribes to sell as slaves?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Oh, now white people should feel guilty whenever another white person does something stupid?


Not even remotely what I said, stop arguing in bad faith please.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Not even remotely what I said, stop using bad faith arguments.


Stop ignoring proven facts claiming that we are delusional


----------



## grossaffe (Oct 16, 2018)

This thread is cancer.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Not even remotely what I said, stop using bad faith arguments.


I see Eddypikachu liking Xzi's comments. He loves white genocide. Haha just kidding.


grossaffe said:


> This thread is cancer.


Much like the third world immigrants coming into Europe and the USA illegally. WOOP!


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Stop ignoring proven facts claiming that we are delusional


You _are_ delusional because you never back off an argument when presented with contrary evidence.  Instead you double down on talking points like "white genocide, woe is me" bullshit.  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but you aren't going to win anybody over by playing the victim card.  Yeah, there are some left-wing nutjobs.  That doesn't outweigh the fact that there's a right-wing nutjob in the white house and plenty more controlling the majority of government.  Just be thankful that the left keeps our extremists from running for president, a courtesy not granted by the right.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You are delusional because you never back off an argument when presented with contrary evidence.  Instead you double down on talking points like "white genocide, woe is me" bullshit.  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but you aren't going to win anybody over by playing the victim card.  Yeah, there are some left-wing nutjobs.  That doesn't outweigh the fact that there's a right-wing nutjob in the white house and plenty more controlling the majority of government.  Just be thankful that the left keeps our extremists from running for president, a courtesy not granted by the right.


What facts? I have been the only one posting sources lol


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You _are_ delusional because you never back off an argument when presented with contrary evidence.  Instead you double down on talking points like "white genocide, woe is me" bullshit.  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but you aren't going to win anybody over by playing the victim card.  Yeah, there are some left-wing nutjobs.  That doesn't outweigh the fact that there's a right-wing nutjob in the white house and plenty more controlling the majority of government.  Just be thankful that the left keeps our extremists from running for president, a courtesy not granted by the right.


I already showed you evidence that it is happening my dawg. Take a chill pill and relax. Love you boo.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> What facts? I have been the only one posting sources lol


Which I already acknowledged.  Your "sources" back very few of the claims they were intended to back, though.  All they did was provide examples of fringe individuals on the left, which is easy to do for either political leaning.



PanTheFaun said:


> I already showed you evidence that it is happening my dawg. Take a chill pill and relax. Love you boo.


And your sources were just pictures with text, probably from 4chan's /pol/.  Absolute garbage.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Which I already acknowledged.  Your "sources" back very few of the claims they were intended to back, though.  All they did was provide examples of fringe individuals on the left, which is easy to do for either political leaning.


Really? I dunno man...


----------



## grossaffe (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Much like the third world immigrants coming into Europe and the USA illegally. WOOP!


No, more like the tribalist sheep that cheer on everything "their" side does because it's their side and their side can do no wrong, so obviously whatever their side does must be right, and what the other side does must be wrong.  No matter how contradictory that is to everything they claimed to believe days prior.
Like the sheep who resort to xenophobia because their side says immigrants are bad because their dear tribe leader scapegoats them.
Like the though-police who go around crucifying anyone who holds an opinion they find offensive.
Like the people who will support a sexual predator because that person identifies with their team.

Cancer.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Really? I dunno man... View attachment 146806 View attachment 146807 View attachment 146808


Okay?  A few more fringe individuals.  Is there a left-wing equivalent of Q?  How many right-wing crazies believe in that internet rando like he's a god?  A lot more than the ~10 examples you and SongofStorms have provided, that much I can guarantee.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

I am sure quite a few of those tweets were meant to be sarcastic.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Okay?  A few more fringe individuals.


Do you REALLY think that celebrities and politicians are the same as common individuals? An old redneck can go to a bar and ramble about anything he wants and will be considered next to nothing. But if someone in a position of power does it, it's completely different. I think we've found the delusional person here.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WD_GASTER2 said:


> I am sure quite a few of those tweets were meant to be sarcastic.


We had one guy making sarcastic tweets about rape and he got fired from his multimillion dollar job. Why should this be any different?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

grossaffe said:


> No, more like the tribalist sheep cheer on everything "their" side does because it's their side and their side can do no wrong, so obviously whatever their side does must be right, and what the other side does must be wrong.  No matter how contradictory that is to everything they claimed to believe days prior.
> Like the sheep who resort to xenophobia because their side says immigrants are bad because their dear tribe leader scapegoats them.
> Like the though-police who go around crucifying anyone who holds an opinion they find offensive.
> Like the people who will support a sexual predator because that person identifies with their team.
> ...


You okay? Humans are tribal and that's why the majority are so close to their extended family which is our race.



WD_GASTER2 said:


> I am sure quite a few of those tweets were meant to be sarcastic.


They weren't.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

yeah if someone in a position of power does it, a lynch mob usually makes sure they lose their job the next day. not sure what that has to do with the previous point.
however i know plenty of left leaning people that got mob lynched as well.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> yeah if someone in a position of power does it, a lynch mob usually makes sure they lose their job the next day. not sure what that has to do with the previous point.


Only if they are white. c:


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> I am sure quite a few of those tweets were meant to be sarcastic.


Yeah they definitely read that way.  You can't underestimate the fragility of some white people though, so they really shouldn't have said it either way.



Song of storms said:


> Do you REALLY think that celebrities and politicians are the same as common individuals? An old redneck can go to a bar and ramble about anything he wants and will be considered next to nothing. But if someone in a position of power does it, it's completely different. I think we've found the delusional person here.


The irony is palpable.  Trump is both a (niche) celebrity and a politician and talks shit about other races all the time.  If the president can do it, then other celebrities are certainly allowed to joke about it, even if it's in poor taste.  First amendment ensures that.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

orly?

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/23/suck...t-which-cost-an-intern-her-dream-job-7874411/


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> orly?
> 
> https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/23/suck...t-which-cost-an-intern-her-dream-job-7874411/


I'm talking about racial discrimination.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> orly?
> 
> https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/23/suck...t-which-cost-an-intern-her-dream-job-7874411/


Nice try, but she got her internship back. After telling someone to suck her dick and balls, mind you. After all the pressure from the SJW demanding NASA to get someone this disrespectful there.


----------



## WD_GASTER2 (Oct 16, 2018)

oy vey.

she said she might, but she did not. not sure why that tweet counts as evidence.

regardless

I am brown and quite frankly think the vast majority of white people in this country are pretty awesome(with the exception of the loons that wish me or my family any harm)

minorities are not out to get you dude.

hopefully you dont hate me because of my skin pigment tho.

either way i am done with the thread man. this is just going in circles.

bless you all though.


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> The irony is palpable.  Trump is both a (niche) celebrity and a politician and talks shit about other races all the time.  If the president can do it, then other celebrities are certainly allowed to joke about it, even if it's in poor taste.  First amendment ensures that.


Please, do provide proof where the president said that all black people should be killed, or that there is black privilege, or all the nosense the left is constantly spreading without any consequences.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> oy vey.
> 
> I am brown and quite frankly think the vast majority of white people in this country are pretty awesome(with the exception of the loons that wish me or my family any harm)
> 
> ...


I'm not saying minorities are out to get us or that I don't like people of different races. All I'm saying is that there is a global plot to destroy European nations and peoples. That's it.
I have no problems with anyone that disagrees with me.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Please, do provide proof where the president said that all black people should be killed, or that there is black privilege, or all the nosense the left is constantly spreading without any consequences.


You're shitting me right?  The president literally has Mexican children sleeping on concrete floors in detainment centers.  He has implemented a Muslim travel ban.  He put Ben Carson in charge of HUD and cut the funding to it drastically.  The list goes on and on.  Celebrities can send out sharp-witted tweets, but the president actually has the power to _act_ on his racist tendencies and does so quite often.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You're shitting me right?  The president literally has Mexican children sleeping on concrete floors in detainment centers.  He has implemented a Muslim travel ban.  He put Ben Carson in charge of HUD and cut the funding to it drastically.  The list goes on and on.  Celebrities can send out sharp-witted tweets, but the president actually has the power to _act_ on his racist tendencies and does so quite often.


1: Those detainment centers were in place before Trump became president.
2: He put a ban of Muslim countries that are a threat to us.
3: That's not racist.


----------



## grossaffe (Oct 16, 2018)

I have said all I will say on this thread.  I have no intention of being dragged into an argument.  I have better things to do with my life than wrestle pigs.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

grossaffe said:


> I have said all I will say on this thread.  I have no intention of being dragged into an argument.  I have better things to do with my life than wrestle pigs.


Do you feel better now? You hurt my feelings...
Relax. There are no hard feelings here.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> 1: Those detainment centers were in place before Trump became president.
> 2: He put a ban of Muslim countries that are a threat to us.
> 3: That's not racist.


I'm sure some people defended the idea of Japanese internment camps too.  You can make excuses for anything, but that doesn't mean history is going to back kindly on this period.  God knows that by the year 2018 we should've been past petty racial divisions keeping us from focusing on the nation's more pressing problems.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I'm sure some people defended the idea of Japanese internment camps too.  You can make excuses for anything, but that doesn't mean history is going to back kindly on this period.  God knows that by the year 2018 we should've been past petty racial divisions keeping us from focusing on the nation's more pressing problems.


The Japanese internment camps were put into place because we were at war with Japan. We had to make sure that the Japanese here wouldn't try to attack us. It was for protective reasons.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> The Japanese internment camps were put into place because we were at war with Japan. We had to make sure that the Japanese here wouldn't try to attack us. It was for protective reasons.


You're literally advocating for the government's ability to round up any race/ethnicity (including whites) and put them in camps.  You don't see how that power could be abused at all?  And you don't see it as a violation of human rights?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You're literally advocating for the government's ability to round up any race/ethnicity (including whites) and put them in camps.  You don't see how that power could be abused at all?  And you don't see it as a violation of human rights?


I'm telling you their reasoning. I never said I agree with it which I don't.


----------



## brickmii82 (Oct 16, 2018)

@PanTheFaun I think your crazy with these beliefs you hold, however just because I disagree doesn’t mean I think you’re a disagreeable person. You’ve been quite respectful actually and I commend that. @Xzi you and I agree on much, however we don’t always see eye to eye on issues. However, you’ve gotten so much better to have these kinds of discussions with and that’s really awesome bro. What I think we all can agree on (I THINK) is that this topic has gotten severely derailed and we should steer it back to the thoughts about Antifa which I also believe at the core, we all kind of agree that violence is unethical and is a trait the Antifa “movement” is mostly known for. So, can we try and get this back on track fellas? Please?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> @PanTheFaun I think your crazy with these beliefs you hold, however just because I disagree doesn’t mean I think you’re a disagreeable person. You’ve been quite respectful actually and I commend that. @Xzi you and I agree on much, however we don’t always see eye to eye on issues. However, you’ve gotten so much better to have these kinds of discussions with and that’s really awesome bro. What I think we all can agree on (I THINK) is that this topic has gotten severely derailed and we should steer it back to the thoughts about Antifa which I also believe at the core, we all kind of agree that violence is unethical and is a trait the Antifa “movement” is mostly known for. So, can we try and get this back on track fellas? Please?


Haha thanks and I agree. Lets go back to the main topic which is Antifa. c:


----------



## invaderyoyo (Oct 16, 2018)

I can't help but think that anyone who doesn't believe there were gas chambers or thinks people are trying to start a "white genocide" is a troll or, frankly, dumb. Sorry.

I haven't been keeping up with Antifa stuff, but I'm definitely against them if they've been committing indiscriminate violence. That goes for any group regardless of their political affiliation.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> I can't help but think that anyone who doesn't believe there were gas chambers or thinks people are trying to start a "white genocide" is a troll or, frankly, dumb. Sorry.
> 
> I haven't been keeping up with Antifa stuff, but I'm definitely against them if they've been commiting indiscriminate violence. That goes for any group regardless of their political affiliation.


You have a right to your own opinion and I don't think you're that intelligent either. Let's agree to disagree. c:


----------



## invaderyoyo (Oct 16, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> You have a right to your own opinion and I don't think you're that intelligent either. Let's agree to disagree. c:


Not much point in telling me it's my opinion or that I have a right to it since that's what my username next to the post means, but you're right.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> Not much point in telling me it's my opinion or that I have a right to it since that's what my username next to the post means, but you're right.


You want a cookie or something? A hug?


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 16, 2018)

Xzi said:


> You're shitting me right?  The president literally has Mexican children sleeping on concrete floors in detainment centers.  He has implemented a Muslim travel ban.  He put Ben Carson in charge of HUD and cut the funding to it drastically.  The list goes on and on.  Celebrities can send out sharp-witted tweets, but the president actually has the power to _act_ on his racist tendencies and does so quite often.


Again, you're changing the subject.

Please provide proof of what I asked.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 16, 2018)

*Portland mayor stands by decision to allow antifa to block traffic, hassle motorists*
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/14/ted-wheeler-portland-mayor-stands-decision-allow-a/


----------



## SG854 (Oct 16, 2018)

brickmii82 said:


> @PanTheFaun I think your crazy with these beliefs you hold, however just because I disagree doesn’t mean I think you’re a disagreeable person. You’ve been quite respectful actually and I commend that. @Xzi you and I agree on much, however we don’t always see eye to eye on issues. However, you’ve gotten so much better to have these kinds of discussions with and that’s really awesome bro. What I think we all can agree on (I THINK) is that this topic has gotten severely derailed and we should steer it back to the thoughts about Antifa which I also believe at the core, we all kind of agree that violence is unethical and is a trait the Antifa “movement” is mostly known for. So, can we try and get this back on track fellas? Please?


Back on topic

So it turns out Proud boys didn’t start the fight. Antifa launched the first attack.

Antifa was harrassing the proud boys for a few days. And we’re throwing bottles at them filled with urine. So they were itching for a fight and the attack from Antifa is what triggered them to retaliate.

They didn’t start it but they sure did end it.


----------



## Pachee (Oct 16, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Please, do provide proof where the president said that all black people should be killed, or that there is black privilege, or all the *nosense the left is constantly spreading without any consequences*.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...otline-record-calls-donald-trump-victory-lgbt
Just dropping this here. The left politics is all based on divide and conquest, either by fear or hate hysteria, they don't give a rat ass about what will happen to the people being brainwashed.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 16, 2018)

Pachee said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...otline-record-calls-donald-trump-victory-lgbt
> Just dropping this here. The left politics is all based on divide and conquest, either by fear or hate hysteria, they don't give a rat ass about what will happen to the people being brainwashed.


The fisa memo. The DNC and the Clinton Campaign even tried to falsely connect Trump to Russia, to turn people against him and rig the election. The Russian Bots and the 13 Russian Trolls.

The Democratic Party claimed that the documents are lies and not to trust the Republicans, and tried whatever they can to discredit it, but with the memo and the fisa application in hand it was all mostly true. And this wasted millions of our tax dollars to investigate this Russian connection, and to spy on Trumps team, even though they had no evidence to begin with.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fisa-warrant-application-supports-nunes-memo?_amp=true

There is some shady things going on with the DNC and Hillary Clinton. Especially with the Bret Kavanaugh case.

With all the crime efforts of the Obama administration, the intelligence community, the FBI, Department of Justice, the DNC, and mainstream media to try to get Hillary Clinton elected as president, Trump still won the election. Karma is a Beyotch.

Hilary lost because she had no clear message, because she kept playing into identity politics, more and more states are becoming Republican especially if you compare to the 2008 election, and many Democrats didn’t vote for her because they just didn’t trust her, especially after what they did to Bearnie Sanders.

It’s just all divide and conquer tactics, hysteria, and manipulation. With all this Antifa, SJW non sense, people saw through it and got tired of it, and it’s why Trump is president.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 16, 2018)

SG854 said:


> It’s just all divide and conquer tactics, hysteria, and manipulation. With all this Antifa, SJW non sense, people saw through it and got tired of it, and it’s why Trump is president.


Trump is president because we're living in an Idiocracy where people believe reality TV stardom qualifies you to run the country.  The reason you have to keep looking to the past is because Trump has made a fucking moron out of himself throughout his entire presidency and you want to avoid owning up to that.  Republicans will still be screaming "HILLARY" ten presidential elections from now just to avoid taking responsibility for the ass-backward leaders they elect.

The Obama administration had no major scandals unless you're the type to count dijon mustard and tan suits as scandals.  We're up to 37 indictments and 7 convictions for the Trump administration, and we haven't even gotten through his second year in office yet.

Lastly, you couldn't be any more disingenuous by pretending that division hasn't been Trump's strategy from the very beginning of the campaign.  He's the most divisive president in history, we've never had someone in the white house who attacks private citizens on twitter before.  The guy is president, but even that title couldn't do anything to help his extreme level of insecurity.  Likely the same reason it's so easy for his supporters to relate to him, they're all stuck in a middle school mentality.

Back on topic, the NYPD is pursuing charges against nine proud boys members for assault:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/proud-...oup-for-new-york-city-brawl-today-2018-10-15/

A net positive for anybody who's truly against any form of extremism, and not just against extremism on one side.  Violent acts should always be prosecuted.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Trump is president because we're living in an Idiocracy where people believe reality TV stardom qualifies you to run the country.  The reason you have to keep looking to the past is because Trump has made a fucking moron out of himself throughout his entire presidency and you want to avoid owning up to that.  Republicans will still be screaming "HILLARY" ten presidential elections from now just to avoid taking responsibility for the ass-backward leaders they elect.
> 
> The Obama administration had no major scandals unless you're the type to count dijon mustard and tan suits as scandals.  We're up to 37 indictments and 7 convictions for the Trump administration, and we haven't even gotten through his second year in office yet.
> 
> ...


Trump is president because Americans were tired of tons of interracial violence and murder, illegal immigrants flooding American borders, having our jobs taken away from said illegal immigrants who can barely if not at all speak English, etc.

Here is some of the Obama administration scandals - https://www.heritage.org/political-process/commentary/obamas-scandal-free-administration-myth, https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2017/01/02/18-major-scandals-obama-presidency/

Middle school mentality? Are you serious? Come on.

Staying on topic -


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 18, 2018)

Trump became president because some idiots implemented the Electoral College because they thought that there needed to be a safety net in case the people "were too stupid to make the right decision," if we elected the president through popular vote only then Hillary would've won because she got the popular vote. (I really don't care for either)




PanTheFaun said:


> illegal immigrants flooding American borders, having our jobs taken away from said illegal immigrants who can barely if not at all speak English, etc.



None of the jobs that immigrants are being employed in are jobs that other American citizens even want, like this case in California where in the amidst of mass deportations of immigrants led to a labor shortage on farms and they continue to raise the wages of these jobs but the average Americans still do not want them. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/


----------



## invaderyoyo (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Trump is president because Americans were tired of tons of interracial violence and murder, illegal immigrants flooding American borders, having our jobs taken away from said illegal immigrants who can barely if not at all speak English, etc.
> 
> Here is some of the Obama administration scandals - https://www.heritage.org/political-process/commentary/obamas-scandal-free-administration-myth, https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2017/01/02/18-major-scandals-obama-presidency/
> 
> ...



This might have been posted here before, but it's basically how I see the immigration thing. You can't really blame the immigrants themselves for trying to live.



Spoiler


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> This might have been posted here before, but it's basically how I see the immigration thing. You can't really blame the immigrants themselves for trying to live.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


If they enter this country illegally then they can be blamed. They are breaking the law.



Eddypikachu said:


> Trump became president because some idiots implemented the Electoral College because they thought that there needed to be a safety net in case the people "were too stupid to make the right decision," if we elected the president through popular vote only then Hillary would've won because she got the popular vote. (I really don't care for either)
> 
> 
> 
> None of the jobs that immigrants are being employed in are jobs that other American citizens even want, like this case in California where in the amidst of mass deportations of immigrants led to a labor shortage on farms and they continue to raise the wages of these jobs but the average Americans still do not want them. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/


You would have to be pretty stupid to vote for the other candidates who were worse. Like I have said before if you enter this country illegally you have no right to be here and should be deported. These people have no respect for our laws or culture. As for the shortage on farms, I used to work on a farm along with other Americans and the owners couldn't handle all the workers trying to get jobs. I can't see how that is accurate.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Trump is president because Americans were tired of tons of interracial violence and murder, illegal immigrants flooding American borders, having our jobs taken away from said illegal immigrants who can barely if not at all speak English, etc.


That makes no sense.  "Immigrants are taking our jobs, so I'm going to vote for Trump who employs illegal immigrants in his businesses all the time."  Granted, Republican voters almost never think it through that far, or they'd also realize that they're voting to suppress their own wages.



PanTheFaun said:


> Here is some of the Obama administration scandals.


The Heritage Foundation and Breitbart are partisan opinion rags at best, not news organizations or fact-checkers.



PanTheFaun said:


> Middle school mentality? Are you serious? Come on.


It is absolutely a middle school mentality, believing that all that matters is "winning."  The national debt is at unsustainable levels, people who work two jobs still need food stamps to support their families, and several states are now underwater because responding to climate change would slow profits?  Oh well, at least we get to keep believing we "owned the libs" that one time.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That makes no sense.  "Immigrants are taking our jobs, so I'm going to vote for Trump who employs illegal immigrants in his businesses all the time."  Granted, Republican voters almost never think it through that far, or they'd also realize that they're voting to suppress their own wages.
> 
> 
> The Heritage Foundation and Breitbart are partisan opinion rags at best, not news organizations or fact-checkers.
> ...


I have seen very little of Donald Trump actually hiring illegal immigrants and if he does he is wrong. You're making this a right vs left issue which is not what I'm doing. 

Haha that's your opinion, buddy. You don't have to be an news organization or fact checker to find evidence of wrong doing. 

It's about the best candidate winning for American needs. Hillary and the others didn't speak for what the majority of Americans wanted.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Haha that's your opinion, buddy. You don't have to be an news organization or fact checker to find evidence of wrong doing


That's not my opinion, it's simply not evidence of anything without facts.  You can make any ridiculous claim if your source is tabloids.

If the Republicans had anything to go after Obama with, you can bet damn sure that they would've done so during his time in office.



PanTheFaun said:


> It's about the best candidate winning for American needs. Hillary and the others didn't speak for what the majority of Americans wanted.


According to the popular vote she did.  And most people agreed that neither candidate was that great in the 2016 election, which is why it's hilarious to now see people try to deify Trump as if he isn't half-orangutan with a vocabulary of less than 100 words.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That's not my opinion, it's simply not evidence of anything without facts.  You can make any ridiculous claim if your source is tabloids.
> 
> If the Republicans had anything to go after Obama with, you can bet damn sure that they would've done so during his time in office.
> 
> ...


Do you know how many times the media and news outlets have been caught lying about "facts"? Let's not talk about credibility. Please let's not do this because I'll have to put you in your place.

Obama was one of the worst presidents in United States history.


----------



## brickmii82 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Do you know how many times the media and news outlets have been caught lying? Let's not talk about credibility. Please let's not do this because I'll have to put you in your place.
> 
> Obama was one of the worst presidents in United States history.


Hardly. Not that he was great, or even good, but he was an average politician President. Same as the 9 before him imo. Nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> If they enter this country illegally then they can be blamed. They are breaking the law.
> 
> 
> You would have to be pretty stupid to vote for the other candidates who were worse. Like I have said before if you enter this country illegally you have no right to be here and should be deported. These people have no respect for our laws or culture. As for the shortage on farms, I used to work on a farm along with other Americans and the owners couldn't handle all the workers trying to get jobs. I can't see how that is accurate.


There's multiple multiple Reliable sources covering the labor shortages in farm in california due to deportation http://fortune.com/2018/06/18/immigration-policy-farm-labor-shortage/ https://www.npr.org/2018/05/03/607996811/worker-shortage-hurts-californias-agriculture-industry http://www.cfbf.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/CFBF-Ag-Labor-Availability-Report-2017.pdf


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Do you know how many times the media and news outlets have been caught lying? Let's not talk about credibility. Please let's not do this because I'll have to put you in your place.


Calling other outlets not credible does not make biased opinion pieces from known partisan sources suddenly more credible.



PanTheFaun said:


> Obama was one of the worst presidents in United States history.


Seriously?  Does your knowledge of history only go back ten years?  Because I'm pretty sure that most people would agree GWB was significantly worse for putting us in two wars with countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 (a terror attack his administration failed to protect us from), and then following that up with a massive economic crash.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 18, 2018)

jesus this world has gone fucking bonkers heres some real talk

[Verse 2: R.A. the Rugged Man]
Oh yes, I'm a little bit old and a little bit bitter
I could have sold more and been a little bit bigger
They claimed that I am the next rapper to get slain
Come on, shoot me in my head, put a bullet in my fat brain
I got explosives, guns, knives, weapons of all types
Ninja stars, nunchucks, bats, pipes, looking for fights
(This is shit, can't you talk about something more positive like the environment or something important like politics?) Yeah, sure
Bill O'Reilly he would hate my guts, so what?
Katie Couric she would hate my guts, so what?
Barbara Walters or Whoopi; which one's the dumber slut?
Keith Olbermann, bitch, could get a knife in his gut
Obama nation, the Bushs, the Clintons or 80's Reaganomics
It don't matter, the government always be taking your profits
The Republicans ain't shit, the Democrats ain't shit
What would make you think that either side is ever gonna change shit?
Nancy Pelosi, that bitch crazy, before Obama she was water-
Boarding terrorists and blowing Dick Cheney
Think they was looking for Bin Laden, that's a croc, they was looking for him
Like they looking for the murderers of Biggie and Pac
Fuck this, I ain't talking politics no more
Instead I'll walk in your office and shit on your floor
How my crazy ass look spitting political themes?
When I ain't even had beef with Bush till New Orleans
Hmm, strictly spitting that horribleness
Anybody that don't like it, they can gargle my piss
Rugged Man need love, I'ma grab Obama with that
Three trillion dollar budget and head to the strip club
I'm the last one they should ever let speak
I should save politics for _dead prez_ and _Immortal Technique_


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Calling other outlets not credible does not make biased opinion pieces from known partisan sources suddenly more credible.
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Does your knowledge of history only go back ten years?  Because I'm pretty sure that most people would agree GWB was significantly worse for putting us in two wars with countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 (a terror attack his administration failed to protect us from), and then following that up with a massive economic crash.


https://thehill.com/homenews/news/k...ever-know-if-hillary-clinton-won-popular-vote


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I have given you sources on why Republicans have gone after the Obama administration. Stop making this a left vs right debate.


There is nothing to debate.  Obama's administration had no indictments and no convictions.  I'm sure Republicans would've loved to get him on something, _anything_, but in the end they couldn't.  Compare that to 37 indictments and 7 convictions so far for the Trump administration.



PanTheFaun said:


> https://thehill.com/homenews/news/k...ever-know-if-hillary-clinton-won-popular-vote


This is Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State who made the statement that "we may never know."  Obviously this far past the election we do know, and even that very article states Hillary won the popular vote by about 2.9 million.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There is nothing to debate.  Obama's administration had no indictments and no convictions.  I'm sure Republicans would've loved to get him on something, _anything_, but in the end they couldn't.  Compare that to 37 indictments and 7 convictions so far for the Trump administration.
> 
> This is Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State who made the statement that "we may never know."  Obviously this far past the election we do know, and even that very article states Hillary won the popular vote by about 2.9 million.


I'm not acting as if Trump has done nothing wrong because trust me he has but I'm telling you that Trump won for a reason that you can't accept. - https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37918303

Okay. You have a right to your opinion.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I'm not acting as if Trump has done nothing wrong because trust me he has but I'm telling you that Trump won for a reason that you can't accept.


He won for the same reason any Republican has won in the last fifty years or so: the Southern Strategy.  It's not like it's something new or unique, and it really goes to show how little progress we've made as a nation since the 1950s.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> He won for the same reason any Republican has won in the last fifty years or so: the Southern Strategy.  It's not like it's something new or unique, and it really goes to show how little progress we've made as a nation since the 1950s.


Alrighty then. I'm not about the right vs left thing. I believe as the founding fathers have that there shouldn't be any political parties for reasons like this. It is a way to divide the people.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> Alrighty then. I'm not about the right vs left thing. I believe as the founding fathers have that there shouldn't be any political parties for reasons like this. It is a way to divide the people.


Well, united under authoritarian rule isn't exactly the best alternative.  Political parties are fine, but we should have way more than two.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Well, united under authoritarian rule isn't exactly the best alternative.  Political parties are fine, but we should have way more than two.


We obviously disagree on a lot of issues. Haha.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> We obviously disagree on a lot of issues. Haha.


That's why we need more than two parties, so you can find one that better represents your exact viewpoints and everyone else can do the same.  There's a lot in the Democratic platform that I agree with, but a lot more views I have which don't fit into either party.


----------



## 210modz (Oct 18, 2018)

Praising Obama I see. He was scum along with anyone that supported him. The worst thing that ever happened to the U.S.

-Murica


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> That's why we need more than two parties, so you can find one that better represents your exact viewpoints and everyone else can do the same.  There's a lot in the Democratic platform that I agree with, but a lot more views I have which don't fit into either party.


You don't have to have different political parties to discuss different viewpoints.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> You don't have to have different political parties to discuss different viewpoints.


Obviously not, I'm only saying it would make government that much more representative of constituents' views.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> You don't have to have different political parties to discuss different viewpoints.


True, but it would be great if we could somehow have our ideas represented on a national level - however that's not really possible unless you fell hook, line and sinker for the Ds or Rs.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Obviously not, I'm only saying it would make government that much more representative of constituents' views.


So those Antifa, huh?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> So those Antifa, huh?


Well, you'd have a party which Antifa would heavily identify with, and a party that Proud Boys and other extreme right-wing groups would heavily identify with.  Neither of these parties would have as much representation as the more 'mainstream' viewpoints and parties, though.  With so little true representation at current, people on either side are being pushed toward the fringes, believing that's the only way to make their voices heard.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Well, you'd have a party which Antifa would heavily identify with, and a party that Proud Boys and other extreme right-wing groups would heavily identify with.  Neither of these parties would have as much representation as the more 'mainstream' viewpoints and parties, though.  With so little true representation at current, people on either side are being pushed toward the fringes, believing that's the only way to make their voices heard.


While I understand I disagree due to arguing instead of working towards the greater good of the country


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> While I understand I disagree due to arguing instead of working towards the greater good of the country
> View attachment 146956


The thing is despite the founding fathers being against parties, they exist

And further they will always exist

So in that respect it's better if we could have many parties - this way no party could become too strong, as the electorate would always be split amongst smaller groups - thus creating a government with a higher degree of checks and balances


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> The thing is despite the founding fathers being against parties, they exist
> 
> And further they will always exist
> 
> So in that respect it's better if we could have many parties - this way no party could become too strong, as the electorate would always be split amongst smaller groups - thus creating a government with a higher degree of checks and balances


I feel like that would just cause greater division. I don't see it as a strength at all. Just my opinion.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> While I understand I disagree due to arguing instead of working towards the greater good of the country


What I'm saying is that ironically, a lot more parties would probably reduce the amount of bickering by a significant amount.  If you've got 12-16 parties in the Senate and Congress as many countries do, you're going to be forced to learn to work together with a lot of different people who have viewpoints different from yours.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> What I'm saying is that ironically, a lot more parties would probably reduce the amount of bickering by a significant amount.  If you've got 12-16 parties in the Senate and Congress as many countries do, you're going to be forced to learn to work together with a lot of different people who have viewpoints different from yours.


With so much division in parties I don't think there would be any working together.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> With so much division in parties I don't think there would be any working together.


thing is you literally create a situation where parties HAVE to work together when you have multiple parties

this is because no party could gain a majority, and thus coalition governments would have to be formed

Look at European democracies - coalitions are the norm. This makes it necessary that the ruling party hear the voices of smaller parties - as they need their support to pass any laws

Now contrast this with the US where there are only two parties - and they try to obstruct the other party as much as possible hoping to get a majority. This is what leads to years of lost progress and inaction in Washington.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> With so much division in parties I don't think there would be any working together.


Because we're divided right down the center at the moment.  It's "us vs them."  If you've got so many different parties, people are going to have to consider the similarities between them as well as the differences.  They'd also have to do a bit more research on which party is most in line with their personal views and what all the parties stand for, so it would hopefully encourage more engagement with the entire political process.  As opposed to the mostly-apathetic voter base the US has now.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> thing is you literally create a situation where parties HAVE to work together when you have multiple parties
> 
> this is because no party could gain a majority, and thus coalition governments would have to be formed
> 
> ...


It's just not my cup of tea.  I really don't agree with the European thing because that's the very thing we walked away from when becoming Americans but to each their own. Everybody has a right to their own opinions. I believe in no parties.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It's just not my cup of tea.  I really don't agree with the European thing because that's the very thing we walked away from when becoming Americans but to each their own. Everybody has a right to their own opinions. I believe in no parties.


When this country became a republic we were arguably the only free nation in the world
You've got it wrong, european democracy is completely based on our system

thing is - they took what we had and moved forward

our form of government has barely changed since we created modern democracy over 200 years ago

They updated, and we didn't - but to be clear, when we walked away, we were walking away from monarchy


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> It's just not my cup of tea.  I really don't agree with the European thing because that's the very thing we walked away from when becoming Americans but to each their own. Everybody has a right to their own opinions. I believe in no parties.


We walked away from taxation without representation.  With the two political parties together representative of only the half of the country which votes, we're pretty much back to that same situation in the US already.  Having multiple political parties has nothing to do with being a Monarchy, plenty of Republics and Democracies the world over have the same.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> We walked away from taxation without representation.  With the two political parties together representative of only the half of the country which votes, we're pretty much back to that same situation in the US already.  Having multiple political parties has nothing to do with being a Monarchy, plenty of Republics and Democracies the world over have the same.


Let's not forget DC, Puerto Rico and several other us territories are currently being taxed without representation


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> When this country became a republic we were arguably the only free nation in the world
> You've got it wrong, european democracy is completely based on our system
> 
> thing is - they took what we had and moved forward
> ...


To each their own. I don't have much else to say about the matter. Haha.
You guys know where I stand. if Americans want to do that then so be it.


----------



## the_randomizer (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Because we're divided right down the center at the moment.  It's "us vs them."  If you've got so many different parties, people are going to have to consider the similarities between them as well as the differences.  They'd also have to do a bit more research on which party is most in line with their personal views and what all the parties stand for, so it would hopefully encourage more engagement with the entire political process.  As opposed to the mostly-apathetic voter base the US has now.



What irks me most about the party system, is that if I happen to voice an opinion, even if factually correct, people bitch and attack me for it. It's the entire reason why I abhor politics.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> What irks me most about the party system, is that if I happen to voice an opinion, even if factually correct, people bitch and attack me for it. It's the entire reason why I abhor politics.


The party system resembles football more than democracy


----------



## the_randomizer (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> The party system resembles football more than democracy



No matter how much one voices opinions or beliefs, there just has to be someone who calls you out on it ad infinitum, telling you you're wrong, blah blah blah freaking blah. I'm
so bloody sick of it, why can't people just agree to disagree instead of trying to shove their beliefs down our tailpipes?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> The party system resembles football more than democracy


By the way I forgot to mention that when I said about us leaving Europe I meant because of the monarchy. I'm saying I don't really like using Europe as an example for the USA.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> What irks me most about the party system, is that if I happen to voice an opinion, even if factually correct, people bitch and attack me for it. It's the entire reason why I abhor politics.


Well, opinions are opinions and facts are facts, but I get where you're coming from.  There are 'snowflakes' on both sides of the aisle that won't accept anything contrary to their pre-concieved biases on any given topic.



x65943 said:


> The party system resembles football more than democracy


I wish, (US) football has 32 teams and equal spending caps across them all.  That would be great for our political system.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> By the way I forgot to mention that when I said about us leaving Europe I meant because of the monarchy. I'm saying I don't really like using Europe as an example for the USA.


Here's what I think

Their system leads to less deadlock

Our system? Is there an advantage? Why not change some aspects if they aren't working?

As far as I'm concerned it shouldn't matter where an idea came from as long as it's sound. And there's no shame in amending things. You know that's why the founding fathers created a constitution that could be amended - and proceeded to amend it 10 times in quick succession.

And you know it's not just the Europeans, there have been many parties in US history too. It hasn't always been 2 party rule. There was a time when there was only 1 dominant party, and times when there were 3 or more. You know the Republican party was a relative newcomer when Lincoln won the presidency. Parties came and went for a long time. It's only more recently that the two parties passed restrictive rules to make it almost impossible for other parties to win elections. IMO this is very undemocratic.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> Here's what I think
> 
> Their system leads to less deadlock
> 
> ...


Like I have said if the mass populace of this country are in favor of this sort of system, that's fine. It's their right to do what they want to do. I will still hold my opinions while respecting everyone else's. c:


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

x65943 said:


> When this country became a republic we were arguably the only free nation in the world
> You've got it wrong, european democracy is completely based on our system
> 
> thing is - they took what we had and moved forward
> ...


People do look up to our constitution and got inspiration from it. The Swedish, Japanese...

Individual liberty and freedoms is why we jumped from making 2 dollars a day to over 100.



x65943 said:


> Here's what I think
> 
> Their system leads to less deadlock
> 
> ...


The problem is misinformation or uniformed people making political decisions. I even caught politicians that are wrong. They just put out ideas that sound good on the surface but lead to negative consequences. 

I do see people that claim to go by the facts only pay attention to facts that go by their preconceived notions, but are against facts that doesn’t line up with their beliefs. They pick and choose to which facts to follow, like how a religious person chooses which passages in a bible to follow and ignore negatives like they don’t exist.


----------



## the_randomizer (Oct 18, 2018)

Here's my opinion, any and all extremist groups, should all be sterilized.


----------



## x65943 (Oct 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Here's my opinion, any and all extremist groups, should all be sterilized.


Like, they can still do whatever extremist stuff they want - but they have to have their balls chopped off?


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Here's my opinion, any and all extremist groups, should all be sterilized.


There are certain circumstances which would make anyone an extremist, so I'm of two minds about an act, _itself_ so extreme as that.  Many of us might face circumstances like that going forward, not in the least part due to climate change (water shortages, relocation, etc).


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Here's my opinion, any and all extremist groups, should all be sterilized.


I think that's a bit extreme.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I think that's a bit extreme.


He would be in the extremist category himself.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

SG854 said:


> He would be in the extremist category himself.


Exactly.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I think that's a bit extreme.





SG854 said:


> He would be in the extremist category himself.


He was probably half-joking though, to be fair.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> He was probably half-joking though, to be fair.


We should of let him explain himself first before giving him a scapegoat...


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> He was probably half-joking though, to be fair.


What about that other half.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

SG854 said:


> What about that other half.


In that half I get the _sentiment_ of what he's saying, he doesn't gaf about what happens to political extremists, but IMO prison time is always sufficient.  Depends on how many convictions, but assault doesn't typically carry long sentences unless it's with a weapon, only manslaughter or above possibly gets you life.  You're not gonna have (any more) kids if you go away for life either way.


----------



## Nerdtendo (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> In that half I get the _sentiment_ of what he's saying, he doesn't gaf about what happens to political extremists, but IMO prison time is always sufficient.  Depends on how many convictions, but assault doesn't typically carry long sentences unless it's with a weapon, only manslaughter or above possibly gets you life.  You're not gonna have (any more) kids if you go away for life either way.


In that case, I'd say it's about 83% joking and 17% sentimental. You can check my math, it's there.


----------



## Xzi (Oct 18, 2018)

Nerdtendo said:


> In that case, I'd say it's about 83% joking and 17% sentimental. You can check my math, it's there.


Thank you, but all these percentages just make me want Smash for Switch sooner.


----------



## Coto (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There are certain circumstances which would make anyone an extremist, so I'm of two minds about an act, _itself_ so extreme as that.  Many of us might face circumstances like that going forward, not in the least part due to climate change (water shortages, relocation, etc).



I think someone turned extremist by accident is a bit more forgivable than extremist on purpose. You could say the trick was casted upon haha.

In any case, pointing out people is an extremist stance to take, that would be judging, and judging before you can't even follow your own rules, makes you hypocrite (I don't mean you, Xzi. You are right most of the time on this subject).

Hypocrites I see too much now. But these kind of people can't even stand on their own given some time.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

Coto said:


> In any case, pointing out people is an extremist stance to take, that would be judging, and judging before you can't even follow your own rules, makes you hypocrite


When you point 1 finger at someone you point 3 fingers back at yourself. That makes you 3 times as guilty.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Coto said:


> I think someone turned extremist by accident is a bit more forgivable than extremist on purpose. You could say the trick was casted upon haha.
> 
> In any case, pointing out people is an extremist stance to take, that would be judging, and judging before you can't even follow your own rules, makes you hypocrite (I don't mean you, Xzi. You are right most of the time on this subject).
> 
> Hypocrites I see too much now. But these kind of people can't even stand on their own given some time.


Romans 2:1-3
"You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?"


----------



## seren3 (Oct 18, 2018)

Antifa a shit


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Oct 18, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There are certain circumstances which would make anyone an extremist, so I'm of two minds about an act, _itself_ so extreme as that.  Many of us might face circumstances like that going forward, not in the least part due to climate change (water shortages, relocation, etc).



Could you define "extremism" in your perception to me? Trying to look it up it seems like it's a very imprecise term in english language and basically amounts to "beliefs at the far end of the political spectrum". Which is much more lax than its German definition for example.

The German Office for the Protection of the Constitution distinguishes between extremism and radicalism in this way:

Radicals want to handle an issue at the root (latin: radix) of it. Radicals, however, operate within the constitution and are not opposed to the constitutional state. Being critical of capitalism or the economic and societal structure does not make an extremist and have a legitimate place within a pluralistic soceity
Extremists' actions directly attack the values of a liberal democracy
Going by this definition it would be VERY hard for me to agree that there's circumstances that would make me oppose democracy.

----------------

Going back to ANTIFA it seems very difficult to give an opinion specifically about ANTIFA for the average joe over here.
The way I understand it is that left radicalism and extremism is very nuanced, disorganized and that there's a lot of different movements within it. Some local ANTIFA may be very different from the next for example (all would be radical only some would be extreme).
What does seem to happen though is that for bigger occasions they shove their differences aside to protest / riot together. Another thing that seems to happen is that the radical side of the movement tends to tolerate the extremists.

So here's my opinion: let people be radical if they want, a healthy democracy has to be able to deal with them, being violent towards radicals in an effort to deprive them of their constitutional right to participate in the democractic proccess makes you much worse than what you're fighting.

I would say I support the "sterilization of extremism" as @the_randomizer has put it. This "sterilization" proccess should be very nuanced though and should take into account that freedom of speech IS the ultimate good and should weigh the argument for freedom of speech very heavily.
The German Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution has the capability to outright ban extremist organizations


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 18, 2018)

Are people still bitching that Trump won by whining that a couple percentage of votes were "muh electoral college" while ignoring the fact that the mass media have gone all out to drive people away from voting him and also making some illegals vote as well? Really? Get over it, kids.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 18, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Are people still bitching that Trump won by whining that a couple percentage of votes were "muh electoral college" while ignoring the fact that the mass media have gone all out to drive people away from voting him and also making some illegals vote as well? Really? Get over it, kids.


Someone's pissy that Hillary was the one that got the popular vote huh (aka you)


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Someone's pissy that Hillary was the one that got the popular vote huh (aka you)


https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_9972312


----------



## Song of storms (Oct 18, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> Someone's pissy that Hillary was the one that got the popular vote huh (aka you)


Less time flaming and more time checking if your claims are true or not plz


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_9972312


If you actually read the article you linked, you'd see that it's talking about Bernie vs Hillary votes, not Hillary vs Trump votes.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> If you read the article it's talking about Bernie vs Hillary votes, not Hillary vs Trump votes


I'm talking about in general and not exclusively about Trump.


----------



## Eddypikachu (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I'm talking about in general and not exclusively about Trump.


What are you talking about exactly? You just linked an article and didn't say anything else.


----------



## supersonicwaffle (Oct 18, 2018)

Song of storms said:


> Are people still bitching that Trump won by whining that a couple percentage of votes were "muh electoral college" while ignoring the fact that the mass media have gone all out to drive people away from voting him and also making some illegals vote as well? Really? Get over it, kids.





Eddypikachu said:


> Someone's pissy that Hillary was the one that got the popular vote huh (aka you)



Allow me to get to the root of this problem as I understand it.

To me the electoral college has played an important role to protect local interests such as agriculture or industry based around certain natural resources against population dense areas. I believe this is important to an economy. If either of you were to change the system, how would you change it? If you disagree with the protection of local interests, please explain why?


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

Eddypikachu said:


> What are you talking about exactly? You just linked an article and didn't say anything else.


I was talking about that she didn't always win the popular vote. When it comes to the whole Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton popular vote the numbers were very close.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I was talking about that she didn't always win the popular vote. When it comes to the whole Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton popular vote the numbers were very close.


They tried to blame the Russians for interference. But even if they did at most they would only have a 3% effect of the vote according to political scientist Levin.

538 total electoral votes

Hilary got 232
232/538 = 43%

Trump got 306
306/538 = 57%

57-43 = 14%
14% minus 3% from Russia’s intervention = 11%

So even if Russia did interfere with the election and we take away the the 3% boost (based on the study Levin did) Trump would have still won with 11% more. This should be the end of the Russian interference debate.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

SG854 said:


> They tried to blame the Russians for interference. But even if they did at most they would only have a 3% effect of the vote according to political scientist Levin.
> 
> 538 total electoral votes
> 
> ...


I never brought up Russia though...


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

PanTheFaun said:


> I never brought up Russia though...


I wasn't saying you. Just people who still trying to pin it on a rigged election as the reason for Trump winning. Even if Russia did interfere Trump would have still won.


----------



## PanTheFaun (Oct 18, 2018)

SG854 said:


> i wasn’t saying you. Just people who still trying to pin it on a rigged election as the reason for Trump winning. Even if they did interfere Trump would have still won.


Haha I just woke up from a nap so I'm just trying to figure this all out. Haha.


----------



## Coto (Oct 18, 2018)

SG854 said:


> When you point 1 finger at someone you point 3 fingers back at yourself. That makes you 3 times as guilty.



If 3 hypocritical people point at me, I raise the middle finger back to them.


----------



## Pachee (Oct 18, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> This might have been posted here before, but it's basically how I see the immigration thing. *You can't really blame the immigrants themselves for trying to live*.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


I find this bullshit. Most people entering the US illegally were people who were not being persecuted nor facing any kind of extreme poverty, they are just cheaters trying to skip ahead of others who spend years taking a degree, learning english, getting a decent job and moving there legally.
Promotion and rewarding of this kind of behavior is the reason why most third world countries will be always shitholes. No accountability, no push to fix their mistakes and corruption.


----------



## invaderyoyo (Oct 18, 2018)

Pachee said:


> I find this bullshit. Most people entering the US illegally were people who were not being persecuted nor facing any kind of extreme poverty, they are just cheaters trying to skip ahead of others who spend years taking a degree, learning english, getting a decent job and moving there legally.
> Promotion and rewarding of this kind of behavior is the reason why most third world countries will be always shitholes. No accountability, no push to fix their mistakes and corruption.


Any source? If you're a poor Mexican without close family members who are US citizens, it's close to impossible to legally immigrate to the US. They're not really "skipping" some sort of process because there is none. Idk about other countries, though.


----------



## Pachee (Oct 18, 2018)

invaderyoyo said:


> Any source? If you're a poor Mexican without close family members who are US citizens, it's close to impossible to legally immigrate to the US. They're not really "skipping" some sort of process because there is none. Idk about other countries, though.


I am a poor person without any close family members in the US nor in Japan, is that a reason for me to invade their countries illegally? Really? Why i am not surprised this mindset is coming from california/ny.... This is why their corrupt gov ( along with others) will never fix those problems.
You can immigrate legally to pretty much everywhere in the world, either by getting a legal job, buying land, getting transferred by your company.
https://borgenproject.org/about-the-poverty-rate-in-mexico/


> The rate of extreme poverty has dropped 0.3 percent from 2010 and is now at 9.5 percent. Extreme poverty is defined as 1,243 pesos in cites and 868 pesos a month in rural areas. Government services have been successful in supporting the least well off in the country. Government programs such as a conditional cash transfer program, Oportunidades, and expansion of health care coverage have reduced the rates of extreme poverty. The majority of people in extreme poverty are the indigenous population of the country.


----------



## invaderyoyo (Oct 18, 2018)

Pachee said:


> I am a poor person without any close family members in the US nor in Japan, is that a reason for me to invade their countries illegally? Really? Why i am not surprised this mindset is coming from california/ny.... This is why their corrupt gov ( along with others) will never fix those problems.
> You can immigrate legally to pretty much everywhere in the world, either by getting a legal job, buying land, getting transferred by your company.
> https://borgenproject.org/about-the-poverty-rate-in-mexico/


Ahh, yes. Why didn't they just think to buy some land or get transferred by their company? That makes no sense for a person living in extreme poverty. Going by your quote, that's almost one out of every ten people.

I want to add that I definitely believe the law SHOULD be enforced and I'm absolutely NOT saying "just let them in". What I'm against is the justification a lot of people seem to use. They falsely vilify these people and sometimes even borderline dehumanize them. It's obvious to me that they're either racist or ignorant. These people are just desperate. They're at their wits end and they didn't make the decision to cross a desert into a foreign land where they'll have no legal status and don't know the language lightly. You can't blame them for taking whatever jobs they're given. That's why we should concentrate on the employers. Without any jobs they'll have no reason to even attempt to cross over.

Yes, a few are bad people, but that only means that they're like any other group of people that ever existed.

Anyway, this isn't really about Antifa anymore.


----------



## SG854 (Oct 18, 2018)

Coto said:


> If 3 hypocritical people point at me, I raise the middle finger back to them.


That’s not very nice


----------



## Waygeek (May 3, 2020)

So weird that there would be anti-Mexican trumpers in a thread *about Antifa*.

I love the fake pearl clutching in regards to antifa, it is the biggest and funniest radicalized right dogwhistle. Never mind those guys swinging confederate flags in people's faces, *look at these guys instead please*.

As we learned this week from reading about Michigan, where armed vigilantes turned up to a government session, the radicalized right are fucking psychotic and dangerous. And Trump defended their actions, surprise surprise. I'm glad there is a group that acts as the physical arm of moderate and progressive values. It didn't exist before the radicalized right emerged in 2014, because duh, moderates are moderate and that's not really our thing. But Richard Spencer and his fellow twats forced our hand and I'm glad they exist. They don't instigate, just react. That's cool with me. And they often outnumber RR protesters, well, with counter protesters they do at least, which I find hilarious and triggers the RR so much.

Antifa over these clowns all day erryday;






These cucks can't even go on a few weeks lockdown. It's been hard on everyone, myself included. Doesn't mean I'm enough of a bitch to grab a rifle and head down to my local government lmfao.


----------



## notimp (May 3, 2020)

Ok, here we have:

First paragraph:  Certain people not allowed in the thread I didn't start. (Bad form, dont do that.  )

Second paragraph:  I love (insinuating, not meant that way), the fake reactions (after having presented a fake emotion yourself, also declarative - we dont know if that observation is true), which are not real, but are a dogwhistle (insinuating meaning the opposite, using the term wrong). They are similar to people who swing confederate flags (softer version of calling someone a Nazi on an online forum, suggestive (are they really similar?)). 

Third paragraph: Extrapolating from one example to an entire population group. Feigned surprise. Then ending at at least Anifa are not as problematic as something close to modern day Nazis. (Comparison fallacy. (Point out a worse thing, to have the one you are arguing for look less worse.))
--

All in all I'm left leaning, from a country near germany, where the antifa movement has a far longer history than in the US, and have argued online in the past, that even smashing store windows in some cases could be covered as non violent political expression, at least in political theory.

But please - the argument above is a little heavy on the constructed side, uses almost exclusively rhetorical tricks, tries to cover them up with access emotion, and still ends up being a bad argument in the end.

Activism is fine, but dont overdo it, and dont always be stuck in that mode. Everything about your argument shouts 'I've read a rhetorics manual' but I havent though in depth about the issue (lack of nuance). You can become better at arguing, if an argument comes to you more naturally. 

(If anyone wants to read up on some of the methods used - I personally liked Schopenhauers "The Art of Being Right". Read it if you are interested. The book I mean.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Being_Right )


----------



## Waygeek (May 3, 2020)

Oh good, here comes my stalker.












notimp said:


> Second paragraph:  I love (insinuating, not meant that way), the fake reactions (after having presented a fake emotion yourself, also declarative - we dont know if that observation is true), which are not real, but are a dogwhistle (insinuating meaning the opposite, using the term wrong). They are similar to people who swing confederate flags (softer version of calling someone a Nazi on an online forum, suggestive (are they really similar?)).



Have we got any psychology majors in here that are experts in deranged ranting to translate please?



notimp said:


> Third paragraph: Extrapolating from one example to an entire population group. Feigned surprise. Then ending at at least Anifa are not as problematic as something close to modern day Nazis. Comparison fallacy. (Point out a worse thing, to have the one you are arguing for look less worse.))



One exists BECAUSE of the other. Zero 'fallacy'. They're directly connected. You haven't got two fucking braincells to rub together.
--


notimp said:


> All in all I'm left leaning



Not a single left leaning individual on the face of the earth uses the term 'SJW'. Lying radicalized right do though, as well as calling themselves 'left leaning'.

They, including you, have been fooling no one since 2014.



notimp said:


> (If anyone wants to read up on some of the methods used - I personally liked Schopenhauers "The Art of Being Right". Read it if you are interested. The book I mean.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Being_Right )



LMFAO if I was the author of this book I would ask you don't associate with it. Being mentally ill is not 'being right'.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 3, 2020)

When did I post in this thread and why does it keep coming back in alerts.... oh wait, 2 years ago, it's stale.


----------



## notimp (May 3, 2020)

@Waygeek: Turn your shouting down, I was active almost daily in this forum long before you.

Also stop your passion and constant need for personal attacks. Learn how to have arguments on the 'factual' level, without always feeling the need to call the person you are confronting either deranged, mentally ill, or your stalker. 

You wierdo.  You'll become better at arguing, if you do. 



Waygeek said:


> One exists BECAUSE of the other. Zero 'fallacy'. They're directly connected. You haven't got two fucking braincells to rub together.


Still comparison fallacy. 

Because most people arent part of either of those groups, so the Idea, that both of them might not be needed, or optimal - is the actual societal default.

Not one has to exist, because of the other - and look, my preffered on is less worse. Thats a fallacy. 

If you dont understand, that in my entire post, I looked at the methodology you used to form an entirely fabricated argument badly - I've now spelled that out for you as well. I listed the rhetorical methods you used. And you decided to respond selectively.

Mocking the ones you had no rebuttle for..


----------



## Waygeek (May 3, 2020)

notimp said:


> Still comparison fallacy.



Only to a mind that should have several feet of concrete between it and society. 

To sane people, no. We see the fucking connect.



notimp said:


> Not one has to exist, because of the other



"Just because we have criminals doesn't mean that's why we have the police!"

Literally mentally unwell.


----------



## notimp (May 3, 2020)

Waygeek said:


> Only to a mind that should have several feet of concrete between it and society.
> 
> To sane people, no. We see the fucking connect.


You have misunderstood the argument.

There is a connection. It doesnt mean though, that you can rectify the behavior of one (extreme), with the behavior of the other extreme.

Maybe we dont need either extreme (very prevalent in society), is actually the sensible position most people in society would hold.

Comparison fallacy - because you insist, that its only "either/or" - its not. No societal development only has one other alternative. 


Waygeek said:


> "Just because we have criminals doesn't mean that's why we have the police!"


False comparison. Antifa is not the police (state regulated).


----------



## Waygeek (May 3, 2020)

notimp said:


> You have misunderstood the argument.



Because I am sane, and it is an insane 'argument' (really, deranged rambling).



notimp said:


> There is a connection. It doesnt mean though, that you can rectify the behavior of one (extreme), with the behavior of the other extreme.



No one is arguing for any kind of rectification. You can't reform these psychos, just like no one can fix you. Antifa is a matter of defence, for regular people, against these gun toting psychos, as a last line when there are not enough officers or, when officers sympathise with these psychos, which is the most usual case.



notimp said:


> False comparison. Antifa is not the police (state regulated).



It's not a false comparison, it's an analogy. Antifa don't have to be state sponsored for the analogy at all. Bad actors, and the people who fight against them. It's a good analogy, you're arguing against it because it curb stomps the bullshit coming out of your mouth.

I can only hope you and these gun toting psychos have padded cells next to each other one day; you can entertain each other.


----------



## notimp (May 3, 2020)

Waygeek said:


> Because I am sane, and it is an insane 'argument' (really, deranged rambling).


It is not. You are saying, because there is an extreme movement on the right, it is rectified, that there is also an extreme movement on the left, and look - its even better than the one on the right because it isn't that extreme.

That argument is a rhetoric fallacy. 


Waygeek said:


> No one is arguing for any kind of rectification. You can't reform these psychos, just like no one can fix you.


The entire penal (and healthcare) system in western societies is based on the princpal that you can change, and fix people (/peoples behavior). People deserve resocialisation and second chances. If you are strictly against that, you are an outsider.



Waygeek said:


> It's not a false comparison, it's an analogy. Antifa don't have to be state sponsored for the analogy at all.


It is a broken analogy. Antifa in no way, form, or image tries to replace, enhance, or collaborate with the executive branch. It isn't "like the police" (analogy) in any way or form.


----------



## Waygeek (May 3, 2020)

notimp said:


> That argument is a fallacy.



Nope. And no one is making it besides. Nowhere have I posited the concept of 'rectification'. These are the inventions of your unwell mind.



notimp said:


> The entire penal (and healthcare) system in western societies is based on the princpal taht you can change, and fix people.



Now *HERE* is a fallacy.

Watch enough sentencing on youtube, and you'll know this is complete fucking bullshit. Judges frequently say that while reformation is one of the aims, sometimes that doesn't seem likely given the severity of the evidence, and then there's the factor of retribution for the victims. There's also the concept of deterrence. So the only one bringing fallacies in here is *you*, in fact.

The analogy stands, irrespective of whether you like it or not.

There's another one to be hand though.

"Just because we have had a few burglaries doesn't mean that's why we have the neighbourhood watch!"

Yeah love a good curb stomp.


----------



## Calyptor (May 3, 2020)

Antifas are vermin cowards


----------



## Waygeek (May 3, 2020)

Calyptor said:


> Antifas are vermin cowards



Great argument, UKIP voter. Lots to think about.


----------



## DinohScene (May 3, 2020)

This thread has outlived its usefulness, discussion pretty much ended 2 years ago.


----------

