# [PPOTW] What is the best video game genre?



## T-hug (Nov 3, 2013)

So this week poll asks; What genre best represents gaming?  If you had to define gaming, what genre would you personally say is the best example?
If you were talking with a non-gamer and wanted to show them the definition of gaming, what genre would you choose to introduce them to it?
In a nutshell, what is the best genre of games?



Spoiler: Previous Polls



Previous Week - Is Vita TV a good idea?
Week 17 - Have you got Pokemon X or Y? 
Week 16 - Do you keep trade or sell your games?
Week 15 - Are you interested in Valve's new Vision for Steam 
Week 14 - Do you think GTAV is the game of the generation?
 Week 13 - Have you ever backed a Kickstarter project?
 Week 12 - Will you be buying a 2DS? 
 Week 11 - After last weeks Gamescom are you more or less interested in the PS Vita? 
 Week 10 - Are you looking forward to Gamescom this week? 
Week 9 - Which company has the best online infrastructure? 
 Week 8 - Which is better android or ios? 
Week 7 - Which August game release are you most looking forward to? 
 Week 6 - Will you be buying GTA V?
 Week 5 - Will you buy a Gateway 3DS Flashcard?
 Week 4 - Which system has the best controller? 
 Week 3 - Have you preordered a nextgen console yet? 
 Week 2 - Now MS has backtracked, will you? 
Week 1 - Who will sell the most hardware next gen? 


 
If you have an idea for a poll you would like to see on the portal just send me a PM with PPOTW in the title and your questions and answers for the poll.


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## TheBlueSky (Nov 3, 2013)

Platformers till the end!


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## emigre (Nov 3, 2013)

I can't help but feel this poll is amazingly flawed. There is no particular genre which best represents gaeming and I would tell that to a non-gaemer.


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## jacksprat1990 (Nov 3, 2013)

I couldn't choose one genre. They all represent gaming. It's like asking which colour represents colours the best? Is it red, blue or yellow. It makes no logical sense to me.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 3, 2013)

I shall also have to find issue with the concept of the poll, I will play anyway though.

If I go by pure (heh) mathematical definitions I would probably find the clearest examples in a lot of turn based or other strategy games. However just because it is clearer there does not mean it does not exist elsewhere.

Right now for me the genre side of things seems to have collapsed and everything there is all mixing with each other. I notice this most in the not quite indy world with my favourite thing right now being roguelike elements.

Being a bastard I would then have to say as the title did not include video or computer then board games are still where it is at. After that I would go back to the not quite indy world, barring a radical change in how genre is defined as it applies to games, probably to bring it more into line with other things but genre there is equally troublesome ( http://blip.tv/brows-held-high/why-i-hate-the-word-arthouse-6671094 ), in which case I am back where I started with the "not a great term thing" but for different reasons.


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## Sop (Nov 3, 2013)

emigre said:


> I can't help but feel this poll is amazingly flawed. There is no particular genre which best represents gaeming and I would tell that to a non-gaemer.


 
i think he meant, what is the best genre in your opinion (your favourite)


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## Silverthorn (Nov 3, 2013)

I also feel like it should be called what is your favorite video game genre rather than the best. 
Categories make it easier to compare things that belong in it, but it's hard to compare categories themeselves.


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## Langin (Nov 3, 2013)

What genre best represents gaming? If you had to define gaming, what genre would you personally say is the best example?

Well I voted for FPS, why? Ask a random person on the street what they think when you say the word video games: most of them will say Call of Duty and Battlefield. I really dislike FPS's but they define gaming. :/


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## Taleweaver (Nov 3, 2013)

As said: there is no "the best" game type. Only favorites, and I can't even answer that for myself (I'm back into FPS'es nowadays). If anything, I should probably answer "sandboxing", as they kind of throw all sorts of gametypes in there.

But in terms of introducing a non-gamer to a game: platforming all the way.


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## mightymuffy (Nov 3, 2013)

Not really the best Poll we've ever had if you don't mind me saying (sorry!)
Genre that best defines gaming? For me if I think gaming the first thing that'll pop into me head is Mario or Sonic... most of the current gaming population would probably (casual gamers that they are) say Call of Duty, so do I vote FPS or Platform?
...instead I thought sod it and went for my current fave genre anyway, which are racing games. Not what you asked by the looks of things, but tough


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## Arras (Nov 3, 2013)

There is no one genre that defines games... but I'm sad to see that my personal favorite, rhythm games, is not in that list.


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## TwilightWarrior (Nov 3, 2013)

T-hug said:


> So this week poll asks; What genre best represents gaming? If you had to define gaming, what genre would you personally say is the best example?
> If you were talking with a non-gamer and wanted to show them the definition of gaming, what genre would you choose to introduce them to it?
> In a nutshell, what is the best genre of games?
> 
> ...


 


change it to what if your FAVORITE video game genre


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## Zeliga (Nov 3, 2013)

I love JRPG's and platformers.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Nov 3, 2013)

I voted for Other so I could explain...

I love almost every one of the options listed as long as it's a great game in that genre.


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## Walker D (Nov 3, 2013)

I would never be as narrow-minded to choose one (and only one) item from that list


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## ov3rkill (Nov 3, 2013)

It's a tie between action/adventure and JRPG for me. 
I always enjoy playing those genre of game whether it's good or bad.


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## The Catboy (Nov 3, 2013)

In my opinion, platform is the best genre. Just a style I grew up enjoying and always fun when they mix in other features like Castlevania and Metroid did.
Also of course Yoshi's Island


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## Kuragari Ryo (Nov 3, 2013)

I couldn't find SHMUP on the poll, so I went with other. I'd like to believe SHMUPS is the purist form of gaming aside maybe platformers. They test your reflexes, focus, endurance, memory and hand-eye coordination to the limits. Others may feel different, but to each his own.


I don't mean CoD, Buttfield, Gears and etc, I'm talking about Contra, Gradius, Raiden, Dodonpachi and etc.


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## Gahars (Nov 3, 2013)

Are you a fisherman? Because I think you're baiting us.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 3, 2013)

Kuragari Ryo said:


> [shmups] test your reflexes, focus, endurance, memory and hand-eye coordination to the limits. Others may feel different, but to each his own.


The question is surely then are tests of reflexes, focus, endurance, memory and hand eye coordination necessary to be in a game? Chess for example is considered a game but you could be quadriplegic and still be a world class player.


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## Xexyz (Nov 3, 2013)

I picked Sandbox because a certain game sold so much in 24 hours.


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## grossaffe (Nov 3, 2013)

Easy: There is no best genre.


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## Nathan Drake (Nov 3, 2013)

If I had to pick one, I'd go with action/adventure. No particular reason other than I like the freedom that comes with action games in terms of combat and mobility, but with the linearity of your general adventure game in that even with freedom, your next point of interest is abundantly clear (I'm one of those people who sees sandbox as simply too much choice). JRPG's have become kind of stale in the sense that, really, if you've played one, you've played absolutely all of them. There are much better games out there that incorporate RPG elements into a more action/adventure game (see: Ys 7 - the best PSP game ever).


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## trumpet-205 (Nov 3, 2013)

Rather than best genre, I tend to avoid FPS, fighter, sports, beat them up, hack and slash, and simulation game.

If I really have to name best genre, rhythm games.


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Nov 3, 2013)

JRPG has too many votes.


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## emigre (Nov 3, 2013)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:


> JRPG has too many votes.


 

GBAtemp has too many weeaboos.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 3, 2013)

This poll is indeed pretty flawed, asking which genre of video games is _"the best"_ practically means being unfamiliar with what a genre is.

A genre is a category, a part of a classification system, it doesn't carry the notion of _"quality"_, it's a device constructed of criteria. The purpose of using genres is to categorize content, not to judge whether the content is _"good"_ or _"bad"_ because that's not its purpose. What I'm saying here that genres aren't _"good"_ or _"bad"_ in and out of themselves and as such there can't be _"the best"_ or _"the worst"_ genre.

Quality transcends genre - there are good and bad RPG's as well as good and bad FPS'es and the particular genre criteria have little impact on the overall experience - it's the extent to which those criteria were met and the overall execution that are deciding factors of quality.

Genres are umbrella terms which serve no other purpose than to help the user in browsing through content. A user who likes games with plenty of character development can use this particular taste as a criterion in his or her search which will eventually lead him or her towards the RPG genre which specifically focuses on role-playing... and here we stumble upon the magical word _"taste"_, and tastes are not universal.

You can say that Shakespear's _"Romeo and Juliet"_ is a better love story than Stephenie Meyer's _"Twilight"_, you can measure that if you apply certain criteria and those works will have qualities that either fulfil them or don't. You can also apply different criteria and reach a completely different conclusion, but at the end of the day, the deciding factor of which piece is better lays in the execution of the chosen criteria.

At the same time, you can't really say that drama is better than novels or vice-versa because _"drama"_ and _"novel"_ don't have qualities of their own - they're labels attached to given works that fulfil certain criteria. As a reader, you are more _"likely"_ to enjoy one over the other depending on which of those criteria appeal to you, but this appeal is entirely a matter of taste. In and out of themselves, neither novels nor drama execute any criteria at all - they are the criteria.

The argument over which genre is _"the best"_ is an argument over lables, not over measurable content and as such it's pointless. Games are either good or bad, _"fun"_ or _"not fun"_ and more often than not, their genre is completely irrelevant. Asking _"what is your favorite genre?"_ would be far better since here we're asking about the subjective opinion, not an objective judgement.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 3, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> If I had to pick one, I'd go with action/adventure.



Given that action adventure has now had criticism of a sort levelled at it for many years for being a generic term that encompasses an awful lot and says very little as a result I think you have just stumbled upon the alternative way of expressing the sentiments others have shared in the thread thus far.


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## Issac (Nov 3, 2013)

I can't answer this either. My favourite game series is (the first four parts of) Silent Hill. And I also love Alan Wake. But I don't really like survival horror games in general. I love Final Fantasy games, and a few other (J)RPG's but many of other games in that genre bores me to bits. Action RPG are awesome if made right, but not all. 

But I guess Platforming games really are those I would show a non-gamer for the sheer joy of gaming. Like Mario Galaxy, it's just fun. Quick to get into, no overwhelming story etc. 

*Did not vote*


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## TyBlood13 (Nov 3, 2013)

emigre said:


> GBAtemp has too many weeaboos.


 
That's rich coming from you. (And no, it's not b/c you're black! )

@Topic *Looks at avatar* Yup, going with that. Classic JRPGs forever!


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## CompassNorth (Nov 3, 2013)

jRPGs and wRPGs aren't actual genres.  
The only difference between the two is the country of where the game was developed, not mechanics.


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## Arras (Nov 3, 2013)

Kuragari Ryo said:


> I couldn't find SHMUP on the poll, so I went with other. I'd like to believe SHMUPS is the purist form of gaming aside maybe platformers. They test your reflexes, focus, endurance, memory and hand-eye coordination to the limits. Others may feel different, but to each his own.
> 
> 
> I don't mean CoD, Buttfield, Gears and etc, I'm talking about Contra, Gradius, Raiden, Dodonpachi and etc.


 
Reflexes, focus, endurance, memory and hand-eye coordination... Yup, rhythm games got all that and more. (Shmups are awesome too though)


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## Kirito-kun (Nov 3, 2013)

CompassNorth said:


> jRPGs and wRPGs aren't actual genres.
> The only difference between the two is the country of where the game was developed, not mechanics.


 
They differ significantly. WRPGs tend to be open-world and allow for more player-choice than JRPGs. WRPGs are usually real-time and often emphasizes immersion. JRPGs tend to be more linear and story-driven. They tend to be turn-based and push players into an already-established role.

I personally prefer WRPGs. I haven't played a single JRPG which couldn't have been simulated by an Excel spreadsheet, some grid paper, and a scientific calculator.


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## CompassNorth (Nov 3, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> They differ significantly. WRPGs tend to be open-world and allow for more player-choice than JRPGs. WRPGs are usually real-time and often emphasizes immersion. JRPGs tend to be more linear and story-driven. They tend to be turn-based and push players into an already-established role.


Yes, I know the pattern in jRPGs and wRPGs, but again this doesn't make the two genres real.  
Any game from any country can follow either pattern,  it's not exclusive to a country for example look at all the games Zeboyd have made and all the games From Software has made. Zeboyd doesn't makes jRPGs and From Soft



Kirito-kun said:


> I personally prefer WRPGs. I haven't played a single JRPG which couldn't have been simulated by an Excel spreadsheet, some grid paper, and a scientific calculator.


Etrian Odyssey, Class of Heroes, the modern Japanese Wizardry games, and many other jRPGs who payed homage to first person dungeon crawlers which became a hit in Japan such as Wizardry.  

Still not a genre.


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## migles (Nov 3, 2013)

first person shooters, third person shooters, are they a diferent genre? IMO its the same thing "shooters" and some of them actually let you play with both cameras

why is there not a such thing as second person camera?


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## Kirito-kun (Nov 3, 2013)

CompassNorth said:


> Etrian Odyssey, Class of Heroes, the modern Japanese Wizardry games, and many other jRPGs who payed homage to first person dungeon crawlers which became a hit in Japan such as Wizardry.
> 
> Still not a genre.


 
Those games are still turn-based or pseudo-turn-based, meaning that they still can be simulated by Excel, paper, and calculator. Sure, you can't simulate the 3D visuals, but the gameplay is more-or-less still turn based. And um... Wizardry is not a JRPG. It's developed by a North American studio, Sir-Tech.


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## CompassNorth (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> Those games are still turn-based or pseudo-turn-based, meaning that they still can be simulated by Excel, paper, and calculator. Sure, you can't simulate the 3D visuals, but the gameplay is more-or-less still turn based. And um... Wizardry is not a JRPG. It's developed by a North American studio, Sir-Tech.


Oh, I read the question wrong.
Also the newer Wizardry games were made in Japan, but the western games became a hit in Japan and is very influential to the jRPGs. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Megami Tensei, other series all cite Wizardry as an influence.

And again not all turn-based games are jRPGs. Including the grid based first person that Etrian Oddysey, Class of Heroes, ect all pay a tribute to.


Edit: I'm not sure if you know this but western RPGs are *way* older than eastern ones, and they were turn-based. Turn-based RPGs aren't exclusives to eastern/jRPGs because wRPGs did them first.

Not only that but you said


Kirito-kun said:


> I personally prefer WRPGs. I haven't played a single JRPG which couldn't have been simulated by an Excel spreadsheet, some grid paper, and a scientific calculator.


You know that western developers also made first-person dungeon cralwers first years before the eastern/Japanese did ? And that they were grid-based just like the Etrian Odyssey series and people mapped out the games the same way you did.


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## grossaffe (Nov 4, 2013)

migles said:


> first person shooters, third person shooters, are they a diferent genre? IMO its the same thing "shooters" and some of them actually let you play with both cameras
> 
> why is there not a such thing as second person camera?


 
2nd person would be seeing through the eyes of someone else, such as perhaps a potential victim of  yours.  Not really an ideal camera, but someone really clever could potentially make a game that somehow made good use of the concept.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> Those games are still turn-based or pseudo-turn-based, meaning that they still can be simulated by Excel, paper, and calculator. Sure, you can't simulate the 3D visuals, but the gameplay is more-or-less still turn based. And um... Wizardry is not a JRPG. It's developed by a North American studio, Sir-Tech.


 
Feel free to try and simulate Ni No Kuni in Excel, on paper or a calculator. If you can, then you can use your shit argument for any game/genre.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 4, 2013)

>JRPGs
>winning







I knew GBAtemp had bad taste but I didn't think it was THAT bad.

(puzzle game master race)


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## KingBlank (Nov 4, 2013)

I think MMO's are the best, because MMO just means Massive/ly multiplayer online... soo any of the other Genres can be tied onto it, Games are more fun with friends after all.
But yeah, stupid poll, but what did I expect?


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## Kirito-kun (Nov 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Feel free to try and simulate Ni No Kuni in Excel, on paper or a calculator. If you can, then you can use your shit argument for any game/genre.


 
I bring to your attention the TI-Nspire CX CAS. An powerful graphing calculator with a 320x240p color LCD screen, 64 mb of RAM, a 150 MHz ARM processor, and 100mb of flash storage. It's capable of running a fully-fledged port of Doom and GBC emulators. Your argument is invalid.


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## grossaffe (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> I bring to your attention the TI-Nspire CX CAS. An powerful graphing calculator with a 320x240p color LCD screen, 64 mb of RAM, a 150 MHz ARM processor, and 100mb of flash storage. It's capable of running a fully-fledged port of Doom and GBC emulators. Your argument is invalid.


 
I don't get what point you're trying to make here.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 4, 2013)

This is kinda like asking what the best colour is.
It's a lot safer just to ask what peoples favorites are.

My favorite is jRPG. I enjoy stories above all else and that's what a majority of jRPGs focus on and excel at.

But really I enjoy a little of every genre. But i'm one of those people that loves anything with proper RPG elements. I just enjoy that progressive feeling.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> I bring to your attention the TI-Nspire CX CAS. An powerful graphing calculator with a 320x240p color LCD screen, 64 mb of RAM, a 150 MHz ARM processor, and 100mb of flash storage. It's capable of running a fully-fledged port of Doom and GBC emulators. Your argument is invalid.


 
...so are you just going to completely change the topic? That's how you work? Gotcha. Drop one thought and go right onto the next as soon as someone says your argument is shit.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> They differ significantly. WRPGs tend to be open-world and allow for more player-choice than JRPGs. WRPGs are usually real-time and often emphasizes immersion. JRPGs tend to be more linear and story-driven. They tend to be turn-based and push players into an already-established role.
> 
> I personally prefer WRPGs. I haven't played a single JRPG which couldn't have been simulated by an Excel spreadsheet, some grid paper, and a scientific calculator.


 
Weeaboo name
Anti-japanese opinion.

Are you attempting to crash the universe?

I have so much more to say but your horrid attempt at a joke hardly qualifies for a response...at least any more than it has gotten.


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## calmwaters (Nov 4, 2013)

It appears that people on here like a variety of games, but the first person shooters are a minority. Just pointing that out.


emigre said:


> I can't help but feel this poll is amazingly flawed. There is no particular genre which best represents gaeming and I would tell that to a non-gaemer.


Exactly. I love JRPG's, but I love the action and adventure in them. That's why I love grinding so much. It's not challenging, technically, but that's what makes it easy to grind. If it were challenging like puzzle games, then I'd hate JRPG's. (I like Monopoly on the Wii; that's cool...)




ShadowSoldier said:


> ...so are you just going to completely change the topic? That's how you work? Gotcha. Drop one thought and go right onto the next as soon as someone says your argument is shit.


Dude, your avatar. What gives?


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## Kirito-kun (Nov 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> ...so are you just going to completely change the topic? That's how you work? Gotcha. Drop one thought and go right onto the next as soon as someone says your argument is shit.


 
...just how bored are you? Why do you always feel the need to flame me without attempting to target the topic itself? You didn't even provide evidence of how I "completely" dropped the topic. The previous poster said I couldn't simulate the gameplay of Ni No Kuni on a calculator. I provided a calculator capable of running a real-time game. Maybe read the entire thread next time? If you're going to flame me every time you find me on the forum, at least make your flames interesting. Have a nice day.


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## calmwaters (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> ...just how bored are you? Why do you always feel the need to flame me without attempting to target the topic itself? You didn't even provide evidence of how I "completely" dropped the topic. The previous poster said I couldn't simulate the gameplay of Ni No Kuni on a calculator. I provided a calculator capable of running a real-time game. Maybe read the entire thread next time? If you're going to flame me every time you find me on the forum, at least make your flames interesting. Have a nice day.


 
Hey, attention is good. But you getting attention because someone's flaming you isn't exactly desirable.  And I wondered why you posted a picture of a calculator... (I like how you say he feels the need to flame you whenever he sees you on the forum.  That's so awesome...)


Guild McCommunist said:


> >JRPGs
> >winning
> 
> I knew GBAtemp had bad taste but I didn't think it was THAT bad.
> ...



Y... y... you *waggles finger offensively* And JRPG's are full of action and definitely adventure (which is what I voted for since I like action/adventure games; JRPG's just have a good balance of them.)

And it's better than having a bunch of CoD retards on here. (No offense, CoD: MW2 Wii clan)


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## Satangel (Nov 4, 2013)

RPG's really, that's what the biggest stereotype of games is (living in an other world, escaping reality, imagining you're a powerful knight in some fantasy world) . 
I picked WRPG's because I like those more than JRPG's.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 4, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> >JRPGs
> >winning
> 
> 
> ...



I think a sentence along the lines of "it is what we deserve, not what we need" is appropriate at this point in time.


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## Veho (Nov 4, 2013)

Point and click adventures.


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## xThrice (Nov 4, 2013)

In our gaming era of next gen consoles and online gaming most "new" gamers or non-gamers that are joining the gaming world would probably say that if you cant play online then you suck....so moba is the best genre at the moment or micro transaction games as they are all the rage nowadays i mean who hasnt spent some money on some card trading game or even a browser game.

My Favourite is still jrpg but thats just me and everyone deserves to have his own opinion.
Hopefully we see more from indie gaming industries and also i would like a revamp on the star ocean series x)
Cheers!


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## FAST6191 (Nov 4, 2013)

xThrice said:


> so moba is the best genre at the moment or micro transaction games as they are all the rage nowadays i mean who hasnt spent some money on some card trading game or even a browser game.



*raises hand*
If I can not invest a reasonable amount of time and beat the game I usually turn around and dub it pay to win and then write it off with the next breath.


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## ilman (Nov 4, 2013)

Kirito-kun Tried 'The World Ends with You'?
How about Xenoblade Chronicles?
Ever heard of Monster Hunter?
Or even Final Fantasy:Crysis Core for something more Japanese?
I'd really like to see you run Kingdom Hearts 3D on that calculator.
I think I've proven my point.

Btw, I find it kinda funny how much against the genre of the game your username/avatar comes from. Yeah, I know the game based on the anime, but, still, it's kinda ironic.


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## Blaze163 (Nov 4, 2013)

Games are ultimately about escapism, killing time in between more important matters in life. Since I've killed the most time in the Final Fantasy series, by definition it did the job of gaming in general the best, it's a series of JRPG's, therefore it's the best genre.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 4, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> >JRPGs
> >winning
> 
> I knew GBAtemp had bad taste but I didn't think it was THAT bad.


 



Kirito-kun said:


> They differ significantly. WRPGs tend to be open-world and allow for more player-choice than JRPGs. WRPGs are usually real-time and often emphasizes immersion. JRPGs tend to be more linear and story-driven. They tend to be turn-based and push players into an already-established role.
> 
> I personally prefer WRPGs. I haven't played a single JRPG which couldn't have been simulated by an Excel spreadsheet, some grid paper, and a scientific calculator.


Diffferences in style and overall execution don't necessarily lead to differences in the essence. RPG is the _"mother-genre"_ which encompasses sub-genres such as JRPG, SRPG, WRPG and so on and so forth.

JRPG and WRPG are not separate genres, they're separate sub-genres, however both refer to role-playing games, meaning RPG's. Similarly you have Sitcoms and Sketches, but at the end of the day they're just types of comedy which is a bigger, broader, more general entity.

As for the whole pen-and-paper plus calculator _"point"_, I'd like to remind you that _all_ RPG's are descendants of RPG's played on _"spreadsheets"_. You may _think_ that, say, _"Fallout: New Vegas"_ is entirely real-time, but the truth of the matter is that each character has a number of stats which determine their strengths as well as action points which determine their turn, all set within the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system.

Your point is valid, but goes far beyond JRPG's - it refers to video games in general which are governed by maths, especially RPG's, even if their surface doesn't give it away


ilman said:


> The World Ends with You'?
> How about Xenoblade Chronicles?
> Ever heard of Monster Hunter?
> Or even Final Fantasy:Crysis Core for something more Japanese?
> I'd really like to see you run Kingdom Hearts 3D on that calculator.


_"Monster Hunter"_ is not a JRPG.

As for _"Xenoblade Yawnicles"_, I am _so_ not opening that can of worms again.


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## Kirito-kun (Nov 5, 2013)

ilman said:


> Kirito-kun Tried 'The World Ends with You'?
> How about Xenoblade Chronicles?
> Ever heard of Monster Hunter?
> Or even Final Fantasy:Crysis Core for something more Japanese?
> ...


 
Maybe not on the Nspire CX, but there is a calculator capable of running said games. The HP Prime graphing calculator. It has a 3.5in 240p LCD-TFT multi-touch capacitive touchscreen, a 400 MHz ARM processor, 32 MB of RAM, and 256 MB of flash storage. It's capable of 3D graphing and is more powerful than the 3DS in terms of CPU power.


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## CompassNorth (Nov 5, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> The previous poster said I couldn't simulate the gameplay of Ni No Kuni on a calculator.


Oh, that's what you meant. I thought you were talking about mapping dungeons.

Okay, you're obviously high and I doubt you know anything you're talking about.


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## grossaffe (Nov 5, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> Maybe not on the Nspire CX, but there is a calculator capable of running said games. The HP Prime graphing calculator. It has a 3.5in 240p LCD-TFT multi-touch capacitive touchscreen, a 400 MHz ARM processor, 32 MB of RAM, and 256 MB of flash storage. It's capable of 3D graphing and is more powerful than the 3DS in terms of CPU power.


 
Durr hurr, calculators have CPUs so you can play games on them so I'm technically right about one genre being able to be simulated on calculators even though at this point you're basically just playing a computer game that has nothing to do with math.

Go home, you're drunk.


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## YayMii (Nov 5, 2013)

Kinda disappointed how the genre that has taken the most of my time (Rhythm games) isn't on the list 
And the objective thread title poses as a problem too. I guess I'm out then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Kirito-kun said:


> /snip


Posting calculators with powerful specs is completely evading the question. There are no big-name JRPGs that have ever been released on a calculator, and there never will be. Unless you have access to a calculator app that completely and fully replicates the experience of a game like Ni no Kuni, your argument is completely invalid.


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## Kirito-kun (Nov 5, 2013)

YayMii said:


> Kinda disappointed how the genre that has taken the most of my time (Rhythm games) isn't on the list
> And the objective thread title poses as a problem too. I guess I'm out then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> Posting calculators with powerful specs is completely evading the question. There are no big-name JRPGs that have ever been released on a calculator, and there never will be. Unless you have access to a calculator app that completely and fully replicates the experience of a game like Ni no Kuni, your argument is completely invalid.


 
I'm not saying it has been replicated. I'm saying that it's *possible* to replicated it. As in, most JRPG have very mathematical gameplay, the turn-based ones especially. Even the ones which aren't turn-based tend to be restrictive and linear. I'm proposing that such a game can be ran on the rather weak hardware of a calculator.


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## YayMii (Nov 5, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> I'm not saying it has been replicated. I'm saying that it's *possible* to replicated it. As in, most JRPG have very mathematical gameplay, the turn-based ones especially. Even the ones which aren't turn-based tend to be restrictive and linear. I'm proposing that such a game can be ran on the rather weak hardware of a calculator.


The problem is, your proposal claims that JRPGs are _only_ mathematical gameplay. There's a lot more to them than just battles, and to fit a full world from a modern game into a calculator is simply not possible.

Hell, since we're talking about Ni no Kuni, you wouldn't even be able to fit the game's companion book into the calculator. The DS version of the game came with a physical 343-page hardcover book because the 512-megabyte cartridges they used weren't big enough to fit all of its information (meanwhile, the digital copy of the book can be found in the PS3 version's files, and it alone is 400+ MB).


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## grossaffe (Nov 5, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> I'm not saying it has been replicated. I'm saying that it's *possible* to replicated it. As in, most JRPG have very mathematical gameplay, the turn-based ones especially. Even the ones which aren't turn-based tend to be restrictive and linear. I'm proposing that such a game can be ran on the rather weak hardware of a calculator.


 
just like a first person shooter CAN be replicated on a calculator.  Hell, I played Wolfenstein 3D on my TI-83 back in high school.  Oh, and platformers can be played on a calculator.  Oh, and rhythm games can be played on a calculator.  Oh, and adventure games can be played on a calculator.  ANYTHING can be played on a calculator which is just a pocket PC with a built-in screen with controls and happens to be pre-programmed to work as a calculator.

Long story short, your argument is bad and you should feel bad but you won't because you are a troll.  Go back under your bridge and try to collect some tolls.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 5, 2013)

Kirito-kun said:


> I'm not saying it has been replicated. I'm saying that it's *possible* to replicated it. As in, most JRPG have very mathematical gameplay, the turn-based ones especially. Even the ones which aren't turn-based tend to be restrictive and linear. I'm proposing that such a game can be ran on the rather weak hardware of a calculator.


As I mentioned earlier, all RPG's can be replicated with a calculator, a pen, a piece of paper and some dice because they all stem from their _"pen, paper, dice and maybe a costume if you're THAT hardcore"_ forefathers.

What you are mentioning is the so-called _"human element"_ where the protagonist has the option to choose paths and influence the overall story _(non-linearity, branching story)_ which is commonplace in western RPG and not so much in eastern RPG due to a different approach towards storytelling.

Western RPG's are more focused on the _role-playing_ aspect and how the story is moulded by the characters involved wheras japanese RPG's focus on the often grandiose and _"epic"_ plot with the characters only tagging along for the ride.


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## Dork (Nov 5, 2013)

No 3D platformers option? Absolutely disgusting.


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## BORTZ (Nov 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> As I mentioned earlier, all RPG's can be replicated with a calculator, a pen, a piece of paper and some dice.


 
 And most of the time, thats way more fun anyways


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## trumpet-205 (Nov 5, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> What you are mentioning is the so-called _"human element"_ where the protagonist has the option to choose paths and influence the overall story _(non-linearity, branching story)_ which is commonplace in western RPG and not so much in eastern RPG due to a different approach towards storytelling.


 
Story branching is mostly for visual novel in eastern market.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 5, 2013)

trumpet-205 said:


> Story branching is mostly for visual novel in eastern market.


 
That's mostly because Visual Novels are composed almost entirely of the story element wheras in traditional JRPG, a lot of the _"substance"_ is replaced with repetitive grinding for the sake of grinding rather than smooth progression to artificially increase the length of the game. //Criticism


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## Deleted member 473940 (Nov 5, 2013)

Any ways of removing that MASSIVE poll from the main home screen?
I wanna be able to see all recent posts of forum :/ annoying to see this every time I go back main screen or refresh..


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## BORTZ (Nov 6, 2013)

I wonder how many pokatards i voted with to get the JRPG to the top of the list. Looking down, /waves at the 3rd person shooter category, I like 3PS, but there arent a lot of games that lend them selves well to a 3PS well.


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## Setsaya (Nov 6, 2013)

_I really love MMOs since there free to play for the most part, and I cant afford a console atm._


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## Hells Malice (Nov 6, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> That's mostly because Visual Novels are composed almost entirely of the story element wheras in traditional JRPG, a lot of the _"substance"_ is replaced with repetitive grinding for the sake of grinding rather than smooth progression to artificially increase the length of the game. //Criticism


 
I haven't grinded in a jRPG in years.

Some games do do what you say, however most jRPGs these days you only have to grind if you suck and need to decrease the skill level required by making the game easier.
If you'd like to avoid grinding I suggest you turn the difficulty down till you can handle harder


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## Foxi4 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> I haven't grinded in a jRPG in years.


Either you have been extremely lucky with your choices or you have already been psychologically conditioned to accept this bad practice. By grinding I don't necessarily mean having to backtrack for the sake of leveling up - I mean bad pacing which is _"fixed"_ by means of combat.

JRPG's are prime offenders in this regard, not all of them, but the great majority. There's a difference between providing an acceptable level of challenge and throwing enemies that the player has no chance of defeating at him. One of the more commonly-known JRPG tropes are so-called _"invisible enemies"_ or _"random encounters"_, in some games you can't make two steps without running into a bunch of baddies.

This is a remnant of the olden days when video games were unable to show an excessive number of detailed sprites, today it serves no purpose other than extending the gameplay time and preparing you for possible upcoming boss battles. Running from those encounters will lead the characters to be underpowered when the time for the final encounter comes, not running from them is a massive waste of time.

This is poor pacing - the game should establish a balance between combat and exploration. Role-playing games are about playing roles - throwing enemies at the players at completely random times, especially overpowered ones is a sign of poor DM'ing in real life and bad game design in computer games. There's more to adventure than just combat while you're getting from one place to the other.

There are JRPG's which nullify this problem by introducing visible enemies or visible groups of enemies so that the player can avoid them when the purpose of entering the world map is not leveling up but exploration - this is done in _"Ni No Kuni"_ or the _"Dragon Quest"_ games. There are also games which introduce items that allow you to avoid battles when you do not wish to run into them, such as _"Pokemon"_ and its _"Repel"_, however this begs the question how well the game is actually made if it has items specifically designed to combat its own battle system.

With good pacing, a moderate number of battles should be able to prepare you for the boss you're about to encounter. This is because in a good RPG experience isn't only gained from battle, but primarily for questing and other interaction the DM deems worthy of rewarding. Moreover, a good RPG gives the player rewards not only in the form of experience but also items.

With JRPG's, especially early on, I find myself grinding outside of a town ahead of schedule either to build up my stats or my abilities or to gain enough gil for the most expensive weapon in the town's store - as a player I shouldn't be doing that, the game should offer me opportunities to gain these abilities and equipment by a variety of means.

Of course this is just the tip of the iceberg - you could write a whole essay about common JRPG problems. You might say that this is a few isolated cases, but you and I both know that's not true. In a lot of ways, this kind of structure is somewhat expected, this is what the target audience actually _"likes"_ - I suppose it stems from the traditional _"systematicness" _of Asians in general. These _"problems"_ are especially apparent in Korean MMORPG's which are more often than not completely fixated on the idea of _"grinding outside of the town"_, or at least that's my impression.


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## calmwaters (Nov 6, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> *snip*


 
At what point does it become a pain to grind in the Final Fantasy games? Eight? They progressively get babied up as well. There comes a point where the adventure gets boring and so do the action/battles.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 6, 2013)

calmwaters said:


> At what point does it become a pain to grind in the Final Fantasy games? Eight? They progressively get babied up as well. There comes a point where the adventure gets boring and so do the action/battles.


_"Final Fantasy"_ tries really hard to nullify the problems plaguing JRPG, but it does so awkwardly. By creating the so-called _"Final Hallway"_ they completely destroyed an important aspect of RPG's in general - exploration. The player is lead through the games on a string and even though the stretches between battles have become more sensible, there is nothing that you can do in-between of those battles - you must follow the hallway. It's as if Square-Enix was screaming _"please give us a break, we just want to make movies"_. The times when people used _"Final Fantasy"_ as an example of a _"good"_ JRPG are in the distant past, clamwaters.


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## calmwaters (Nov 6, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> _"Final Fantasy"_ tries really hard to nullify the problems plaguing JRPG, but it does so awkwardly. By creating the so-called _"Final Hallway"_ they completely destroyed an important aspect of RPG's in general - exploration. The player is lead through the games on a string and even though the stretches between battles have become more sensible, there is nothing that you can do in-between of those battles - you must follow the hallway. It's as if Square-Enix was screaming _"please give us a break, we just want to make movies"_. The times when people used _"Final Fantasy"_ as an example of a _"good"_ JRPG are in the distant past, clamwaters.


 
I am not and never have been a part of those people who claim that, foxxi. So have they always been bad or did they gradually get bad? Plus they got into the movie industry in VII... Uh, stretches between battles have become sensible? You mean the difficulties have become more sensible. I don't care if battles happen every 4 steps. As long as I have the power to defeat them, that's fine with me. (Plus it'll make it easy to level up without having to grind... and as long as I have enough items or gotten them from the last battle *rambling*)


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## Foxi4 (Nov 6, 2013)

calmwaters said:


> I am not and never have been a part of those people who claim that, foxxi. So have they always been bad or did they gradually get bad?


The problem isn't with whether they got bad or not _(although the quality did drop as time went on)_ but with the fact that times moved on, and they moved on one way while _"Final Fantasy"_ went the other, kind of.


> Plus they got into the movie industry in VII...


They've gone into the movie industry before that with _"Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within"_ and before that they also released a _"Final Fantasy"_ TV series, but you're missing my point.


> Uh, stretches between battles have become sensible? You mean the difficulties have become more sensible.


The difficulty isn't as much a problem as the fact that you have to go through the whole song and dance that comes with the battle - the intro sequence, the battle itself and the outro sequence. This doesn't improve the game - this wastes your time _(and often times it does so deliberately to artificially increase the length of a game without a whole lot of substance)._


> I don't care if battles happen every 4 steps.


Well then you enjoy grinding. If that's what you're looking for, fine, but do know that this is not _"good RPG"_, this is a turn-based action game.


> As long as I have the power to defeat them, that's fine with me. (Plus it'll make it easy to level up without having to grind... and as long as I have enough items or gotten them from the last battle *rambling*)


There has to be a balance between the level of the enemy and your own level. The battle has to provide a challenge to mentally engage you, when you're not engaged and start tapping the button waiting for the battle to be over then you're already bored. If the whole battle revolves around _"pressing A to win"_ then there is no game and the design is poor. Your choices in battle have to matter. If they don't matter because your characters are overpowered at a given point then there are no stakes and as such there is also no tension and the game just wastes your time. If you are underpowered not because of ineptitude but because the game wants to stall you with an overpowered enemy that's not a boss, the game is simply punishing you for playing it. A good RPG shouldn't reach either of those extreme ends of the spectrum.


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## calmwaters (Nov 6, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> There has to be a balance between the level of the enemy and your own level. The battle has to provide a challenge to mentally engage you, when you're not engaged and start tapping the button waiting for the battle to be over then you're already bored. Your choices in battle have to matter. If they don't matter because your characters are overpowered at this point then there are no stakes and as such also no tension and the game just wastes your time. If you are underpowered not because of ineptitude but because the game wants to stall you with an overpowered enemy that's not a boss, the game is simply punishing you for playing it. A good RPG shouldn't reach either of those extreme ends of the spectrum.


 
Right, I walked into this cave in Xenoblade and got my ass kicked by a creature 3 times my level. Annoying. I didn't know I was *supposed* to be grinding before that.


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## grossaffe (Nov 6, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Either you have been extremely lucky with your choices or you have already been psychologically conditioned to accept this bad practice. By grinding I don't necessarily mean having to backtrack for the sake of leveling up - I mean bad pacing which is _"fixed"_ by means of combat.
> 
> JRPG's are prime offenders in this regard, not all of them, but the great majority. There's a difference between providing an acceptable level of challenge and throwing enemies that the player has no chance of defeating at him. One of the more commonly-known JRPG tropes are so-called _"invisible enemies"_ or _"random encounters"_, in some games you can't make two steps without running into a bunch of baddies.
> 
> ...


 

We've been agreeing on a whole lot lately (even if I haven't explicitly posted my agreement).  Personally, I've only been recently really getting into jRPGs, though I had played a couple when I was younger.  The two main issues you bring up in grinding and random encounters are pretty big for me when looking for a game in the genre to play.

I tried playing Earthbound, for example.  It had visible enemies, and even a nice feature where if you snuck up on an enemy from behind you'd get a free attack.  Unfortunately, though, it could be rather difficult to avoid enemies even though you could see them, and if they caught you from behind, _they'd_ get a free attack.  To go along with that, the game required grinding as there wasn't much you could do with the battle system to compete against higher-leveled opponents and you'd be under-leveled if you didn't grind.  As a result, it wasn't a game I very much enjoyed.

Chrono Trigger, on the other hand, had visible enemies that were quite avoidable, the battle system was deep enough that you could overcome a level disadvantage, and there wasn't much need for grinding.  It was well-paced, non-linear, and a game that showed what the genre was capable of.

Quite a number of games, at least older ones, are more along Earthbound's lines, which are not to my preference, but I've also played a few games more along Chrono Trigger's lines, which has gotten me digging through the genre to find more of the ones that are done right.  I like the genre, it's just unfortunate that so many of the games in the genre have random encounters and unbalanced leveling.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 6, 2013)

calmwaters said:


> Right, I walked into this cave in Xenoblade and got my ass kicked by a creature 3 times my level. Annoying. I didn't know I was *supposed* to be grinding before that.


 
_"Xenoblade Yawnicles"_ makes the cardinal mistake of giving the player freedom of movement but no _direction_, at least not beyond the tutorial section. You're just thrown into the world and this works fine in sandbox games like _"Grand Theft Auto"_, but not necessarily RPG, at least this is the impression I got when I played the game _(which is why I stopped)_. You probably weren't even supposed to be there at your level.


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## grossaffe (Nov 7, 2013)

calmwaters said:


> Right, I walked into this cave in Xenoblade and got my ass kicked by a creature 3 times my level. Annoying. I didn't know I was *supposed* to be grinding before that.


 
I doubt the issue was that you weren't grinding, but rather you were trying go somewhere you shouldn't be (yet), or you just happened to come across a strong creature in an otherwise docile area (like those Goliaths that roam around the Gaur Plains).  There are places that you'll have to come back to after you've gotten stronger and progressed in the game if you want to explore the area.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 7, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Either you have been extremely lucky with your choices or you have already been psychologically conditioned to accept this bad practice. By grinding I don't necessarily mean having to backtrack for the sake of leveling up - I mean bad pacing which is _"fixed"_ by means of combat.
> 
> JRPG's are prime offenders in this regard, not all of them, but the great majority. There's a difference between providing an acceptable level of challenge and throwing enemies that the player has no chance of defeating at him. One of the more commonly-known JRPG tropes are so-called _"invisible enemies"_ or _"random encounters"_, in some games you can't make two steps without running into a bunch of baddies.
> 
> ...


 

Random encounters are crap, but some games do it properly enough that they aren't that noticeable. Typically SMT I find don't just throw dozens of random encounters at you.
It's an old mechanic and it's not even widely used anymore, most of the more dominant jRPG series have thrown out that system. So it's not a great argument to try stand on, especially since you blew it away by noting all the ways games have fixed the issue.

Your last point is kind of a joke because I could say the same thing about Neverwinter nights. There were times I just repeatedly threw myself at the same enemies in order to level up my teammies a little bit more because I needed a skill here or there.
Skyrim itself is one gigantic grind for pretty much every skill, there was no proper pacing at all for most of the skills.
It's not a problem with jRPGs, it's a problem with the genre, or more specifically the player. You don't NEED to buy every item, you don't NEED that skill, you WANT those things. If you NEED them, you're probably going to want to knock the difficulty down a notch until you can play at a more competent level. Like I said, grinding is for people to make up for a lack of skill, or to get their OCD fix. I don't NEED that next lockpicking skill, but hell, I want whats in that chest, so i'll sit there and grind for it so I can do so. That's just how RPGs work, and western RPGs don't just throw everything at you at once either.
Also just a random note but i've never played a Final Fantasy game and had a problem with money. Those games gives you fistfuls of cash if you don't blow it all on potions and phoenix downs to begin with, and considering how easy they are, you shouldn't need to. Not to mention a majority of RPGs will actually give you these items if you just continue on a little bit.

Lastly, a good RPG doesn't need to reward you with experience,_ or_ items. I'm happy doing sidequests in some jrpgs simply for the knowledge I gain from it. Tales games reveal a lot of stuff in their sidequests. Nier had a crapton of odd jobs to do and most of the time I didn't even care what they were paying me, I just wanted to get some more info out of the game. That poor doggy 
This is a very foreign concept in western RPGs. I can't even really name one that has lore sidequests. They're almost always slay x, find y, or go to z, and gain your exp pool, items and money...yay. Typically they have the depth of a spoon.

It's all just preference, it's easy to bitch about things western RPGs do too, but it's just redundant and pointless for both of us to continually go back and forth and poke at things one does better than the other.


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## grossaffe (Nov 7, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> Random encounters are crap, but some games do it properly enough that they aren't that noticeable. Typically SMT I find don't just throw dozens of random encounters at you.


I'm playing the first SMT on the SNES right now and it seems to have quite a few random encounters.  Do the later games in the series tame it down?


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## PROTOBOY (Nov 9, 2013)

SURVIVOR HORROR THE BEST!!!!!!!!!


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## grossaffe (Nov 9, 2013)

PROTOBOY said:


> SURVIVOR HORROR THE BEST!!!!!!!!!


 
it is nice to see the genre making a bit of a comeback on the PC with developers like Frictional Games.  Unfortunately the consoles are pretty barren of the genre.  I was really looking forward to Winter which was supposed to be developed for the Wii, but no publishers were willing to give it a chance.


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## PsyBlade (Nov 11, 2013)

other: roguelike (meaning: extreme replayability, high difficulty, high randomness, permadeath)
both the classical ones (turn based dungeon crawler e.g. DC Stone Soup) and the new roguelikelikes (sic) like FTL

love the Doom rougelike DoomRL


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## zeello (Dec 7, 2013)

Where's racing?

*scans poll options for a 4th time*



> Simulation - Flying/Racing/Sports/Life etc.


 
...


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