# Nintendo files two new lawsuits against TX-related resellers



## x65943 (May 18, 2020)

Curious how this will play out. The SX doesn't exactly sell with any preloaded games and the assertion that there is no legitimate use (like homebrew capabilities) is false.


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## AlphaSapphire (May 18, 2020)

Oof wonder what will this will impact in the hacking scene


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## NoNAND (May 18, 2020)

I can see where this is going
Hopefully they won't sue the atmosphere cfw makers..


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

lol irreparable damages.
Selling SX devices isn't even illegal in most country and it's not because it is in Japan that they can impose their laws on the whole planet.


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## NoNAND (May 18, 2020)

x65943 said:


> Curious how this will play out. The SX doesn't exactly sell with any preloaded games and the assertion that there is no legitimate use (like homebrew capabilities) is false.


Remember the ROM sites lawsuit?
I sure hope this won't end as bad as that one


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## mrgone (May 18, 2020)

who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


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## x65943 (May 18, 2020)

NoNAND said:


> Remember the ROM sites lawsuit?
> I sure hope this won't end as bad as that one


Well those are legitimate claims. Rom sites sell copyrighted nintendo software.

TX sells the means to play such software, but not the software itself.


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## Jayro (May 18, 2020)

All we can do is support TX right now in these trying times.


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## ShadowOne333 (May 18, 2020)

Oh what is this?
A device that offers users to do whatever the fuck they want with the device they purchased?
How is that illegal?

The device itself doesn't come with pirated content of any kind.
Consumers and users have the right to do WHATEVER THE FUCK they want with the device, it's not Nintendo's choice to make what the users do or don't with the Switch.

It's obvious they only seek to gain more money. Nintendo's well known for being greedy fucks, as they aren't losing shit giving how the Switch is selling by the millions.

Seriously, I am amazed and disgusted as to why laws in certain countries defend companies over the rights of the consumers.
Shit like this shouldn't be happening anymore.

Fuck Nintendo ad infinitum.


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## callmebob (May 18, 2020)

End of hard mods and or physical solutions. Only soft mods if any at all going forward.


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## grey72 (May 18, 2020)

NoNAND said:


> I can see where this is going
> Hopefully they won't sue the atmosphere cfw makers..


Nintendo can't touch Atmosphere. It goes out of its way to not let you pirate out of the box.


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## Deleted User (May 18, 2020)

this reminds me of the r4 cards


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## Ericzander (May 18, 2020)

Don't mind me, I'm just here to read all the comments by armchair lawyers talking vaguely about how evil Nintendo is and how the fact that Team Xecuter's SX allows you to do homebrew stuff in addition to pirating games makes them 100% in the clear.


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## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

ShadowOne333 said:


> It's obvious they only seek to gain more money.


It's almost like they're doing what literally any other company's goal is.


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## Bladexdsl (May 18, 2020)

fucking nintendo at it again. first it was fan made games than it was rom sites because they want you to pay $20/y to access 4 shitty OLD games each month and never release ANYTHING actual good instead of providing an actual VC. and now it's the actual chip sites... what will they try to shut down next? places that do repairs on their shitty under-powered consoles because people don't want to mail their shit to nintendo HQ where they sneakretly install the latest updates for you?!

 NINTENDO


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## antiNT (May 18, 2020)

Ericzander said:


> Don't mind me, I'm just here to read all the comments by armchair lawyers talking vaguely about how evil Nintendo is and how the fact that Team Xecuter's SX allows you to do homebrew stuff in addition to pirating games makes them 100% in the clear.


SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.


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## kingaz (May 18, 2020)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Oh what is this?
> A device that offers users to do whatever the fuck they want with the device they purchased?
> How is that illegal?



Bypassing copy protection mechanisms is illegal under both US and Mexican law (and these are far from the only countries that have such a provision).



antiNT said:


> SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.



Because of the DMCA (and equivalent laws in other countries), SX OS is quite illegal.


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## Reecey (May 18, 2020)

Could you imagine how much jail time as well as money tx’s head honcho would get, if they caught up with the individual! I hate to think... scary thought!


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## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

This wont stop anything if people really want something they will get it. (Dark Web) They can easily set shop where US has zero Jurisdiction


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## MrCokeacola (May 18, 2020)

lol Nintendo continuing to waste money on legal battles that could go towards you know. Making games.


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## Reecey (May 18, 2020)

grey72 said:


> Nintendo can't touch Atmosphere. It goes out of its way to not let you pirate out of the box.


lol what side of the court room have you come from, you’re joking right? They would lube Michael up so much ready for some serious penetration...


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## ChaosEternal (May 18, 2020)

MrCokeacola said:


> lol Nintendo continuing to waste money on legal battles that could go towards you know. Making games.


It's only a waste if they spend more money pursuing the legal case than they earn from having more people purchase games. If making these dongles harder to get earns them more money overall, then it's the logical thing to do. I don't know whether this case in particular meets that burden, but it's surely possible to do so.



Reecey said:


> lol what side of the court room have you come from, you’re joking right? They would lube Michael up so much ready for some serious penetration...


Just like how the went after Luma or any of the half-dozen other 3DS CFWs, eh?


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

Ericzander said:


> Don't mind me, I'm just here to read all the comments by armchair lawyers talking vaguely about how evil Nintendo is and how the fact that Team Xecuter's SX allows you to do homebrew stuff in addition to pirating games makes them 100% in the clear.


They're not but they're kind of...
Theoretically, they are only in the clear because of SX's stupid marketing, advertising it's use for piracy.
This is the same things for R4s.
If they don't market it as a piracy device, then Nintendo has no rights whatsoever to make them illegal.


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## SkittleDash (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> This wont stop anything if people really want something they will get it. (Dark Web) They can easily set shop where US has zero Jurisdiction



You really think the Dark Web is safe from the law? You couldn't be more wrong.


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## kingaz (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> This wont stop anything if people really want something they will get it. (Dark Web) They can easily set shop where US has zero Jurisdiction



First, just putting something on the dark web does not remove it from US jurisdiction (Silk Road says hi from the grave). Second, even if they could make a stealthier shop, it would also make it harder for customers to find, which would be a win for Nintendo.


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## Paulsar99 (May 18, 2020)

Not surprised really but nothing is really going to change since people could just buy one directly from chinese online shops.


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## tech3475 (May 18, 2020)

I'm surprised TX don't try and separate the homebrew aspect from the pirate aspect, especially now that they have a hardware device which people may need even if they don't intend to pirate.

That way at least Nintendo can't argue that it's purely piracy and the defendant can try to plead innocence which may or may not help them.


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## JayPea (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


I still have one of their t-shirts in storage somewhere that they sent with my Panasonic Q! (I got blind drunk one night and woke up to an email invoice receipt for £499, quite an expensive night in lol)

Also bought some pretty decent 3rd party Samba De Amigo controllers for my Dreamcast from them back in the day.

Damn you, Sony!

I still miss Lik Sang to this day or perhaps it's the frivolous spending I miss - having a mortgage & family is expensive.


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## MrCokeacola (May 18, 2020)

ChaosEternal said:


> It's only a waste if they spend more money pursuing the legal case than they earn from having more people purchase games. If making these dongles harder to get earns them more money overall, then it's the logical thing to do. I don't know whether this case in particular meets that burden, but it's surely possible to do so.
> 
> 
> Just like how the went after Luma or any of the half-dozen other 3DS CFWs, eh?


Spite is a wonderful thing. You stop these dongles, there will be more then enough people to step up and continue.


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## pkmnTobi (May 18, 2020)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Oh what is this?
> A device that offers users to do whatever the fuck they want with the device they purchased?
> How is that illegal?
> 
> ...



You have a huge lack of intellectual honesty in this post if you are trying to assert that these aren't being used for 90% piracy, if not more. Also saying that Nintendo is doing this simply for the "money" is highly laughable. You do realize the amount they are suing for is a drop in the bucket for them? That their legal fees themselves aren't cheap to pursue this. They are suing these resellers because they can't sue the creators, so they go after supply. They are trying to protect their intellectual properties, something all companies have to do otherwise they will lose that property in a sense.

And yeah yeah yeah I'm all for users having control over their devices they bought, but don't be so upset when a majority of users ruin that by violating copyright infringements with that ability, and it is SXOS's main selling point. There's a reason Atmosphere is safely sitting on Github and this is being sued, and it isn't because "Nintendo evil! Money give".


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## Ericzander (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> If they don't market it as a piracy device, then Nintendo has no rights whatsoever to make them illegal.


This is the armchair lawyering I'm talking about. Say it with confidence and it'll sound correct! (Even when it's not...)


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## ChaosEternal (May 18, 2020)

MrCokeacola said:


> Spite is a wonderful thing. You stop these dongles, there will be more then enough people to step up and continue.


It doesn't matter if people continue. The only thing that matters is making it just enough of a bother to get one that people don't pursue them. The average person just doesn't care enough one way or another to bother. Just think of how many frivolous sales are made every day where something happens to catch a person's eye and they buy it. Had they never seen it in the first place, then they wouldn't have purchased the doodad. It just isn't that important to them. The interested, perhaps spiteful, person will still pursue it, but that doesn't matter because the vast majority of people are ambivalent. Either way, Nintendo isn't going after the people making these because they can't. Those guys are in China and China only cares about its own markets, everyone else be damned. They're playing wack-a-mole with the distributors instead.


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## mrgone (May 18, 2020)

JayPea said:


> I still have one of their t-shirts in storage somewhere that they sent with my Panasonic Q! (I got blind drunk one night and woke up to an email invoice receipt for £499, quite an expensive night in lol)
> 
> Also bought some pretty decent 3rd party Samba De Amigo controllers for my Dreamcast from them back in the day.
> 
> ...



if i rememeber right, my dreamcast broadband adapter and my flash2advance gba flashcarts came from lik sang.
those were the good ol' times....


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## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

@SkittleDash & kingaz

With due diligence and research you can buy almost anything off the dark-web without being detected. As for the shops I'm saying the site owners need to do something for them not to be traced or host somewhere where the US cant claim legal actions against them. Each time I buy something I don't supposed to be buying I always make sure I receive it but I can't be legally traced. That is what I mean it may be extra work but doing illict activities you have to cover your bases that's why SXOS is still in the game.

Same thing applies when pirating something cover your basis. I learned my lesson from my 1st and only DMCA notice.


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

Ericzander said:


> This is the armchair lawyering I'm talking about. Say it with confidence and it'll sound correct!


It isn't, the only way Nintendo can even legitimately make them illegal would be using SX's piracy marketing.
You can compare the switch hacking scene to the iOS jailbreak, where it was deemed legal for consumers to use their hardware to do anything, it was deemed legal for users to unlock their phones that they paid for and install the software they want on it..

One good argument would be that "it's circumventing copyright protection" which can easily countered by the preservation, archiving and just using the hardware that you paid for like you want to. Which is why nobody, even Apple used that in in the past... Can easily be countered. This argument could work because, again, SX is marketing it as a piracy device and Nintendo can always just sue them for promoting illegal activities on their behalf.


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## JayPea (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> if i rememeber right, my dreamcast broadband adapter and my flash2advance gba flashcarts came from lik sang.
> those were the good ol' times....



I'll drink to that  Cheers!


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## weatMod (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


who here is old enough to know who bung is


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## pkmnTobi (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> @SkittleDash & kingaz
> 
> With due diligence and research you can buy almost anything off the dark-web without being detected. As for the shops I'm saying the site owners need to do something for them not to be traced or host somewhere where the US cant claim legal actions against them. Each time I buy something I don't supposed to be buying I always make sure I receive it but I can't be legally traced. That is what I mean it may be extra work but doing illict activities you have to cover your bases that's why SXOS is still in the game.
> 
> Same thing applies when pirating something cover your basis. I learned my lesson from my 1st and only DMCA notice.



You are talking about the "Dark Web"...which is deep end of the pool, while switch hacking is kiddy pool stuff legally. I really don't know what your point is by just shouting "dark web" as if you're so sinister and off the radar. This kind of stuff isn't what you go to "dark web" for, just order from China. Lmao.


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## hippy dave (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?





weatMod said:


> who here is old enough to know who bung is


Lik Sang and Bung Enterprises were the fucking glory days


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## kingaz (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> It isn't, the only way Nintendo can even legitimately make them illegal would be using SX's piracy marketing.
> You can compare the switch hacking scene to the iOS jailbreak, where it was deemed legal for consumers to use their hardware to do anything, it was deemed legal for users to unlock their phones that they paid for and install the software they want on it..
> 
> One good argument would be that "it's circumventing copyright protection" which can easily countered by the preservation, archiving and just using the hardware that you paid for like you want to. Which is why nobody, even Apple used that in in the past... Can easily be countered. This argument could work because, again, SX is marketing it as a piracy device and Nintendo can always just sue them for promoting illegal activities on their behalf.



Because jailbroken cellphones were deemed to have legitimate uses, the practice was granted an exemption under the DMCA. Video game consoles, by contrast, were denied such an exemption under the DMCA. 

You really should learn more about this stuff before you make such bold claims.


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## mrgone (May 18, 2020)

weatMod said:


> who here is old enough to know who bung is


that is the followup question
my original bung xchanger is sadly broke, but my gbxcart still works


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## NoNAND (May 18, 2020)

x65943 said:


> Well those are legitimate claims. Rom sites sell copyrighted nintendo software.
> 
> TX sells the means to play such software, but not the software itself.


Fair point. But who knows what Nintendo might do. They surely have a lot of lawyers behind them.


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## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

pkmnTobi said:


> You are talking about the "Dark Web"...which is deep end of the pool, while switch hacking is kiddy pool stuff legally. I really don't know what your point is by just shouting "dark web" as if you're so sinister and off the radar. This kind of stuff isn't what you go to "dark web" for, just order from China. Lmao.



lol I know I was just saying anything can be done if someone really want something... I dont know if the website was based in the US that's why they got sued but there are plenty places in China still sell RCM-Loaders and etc that enable piracy. Nintendo sueing the little guy solves nothing.

People dont realize that Nintendo would sue Atmosphere if they knew who they were. Atmosphere may not condone piracy but they left the door open.


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## SaltyDog (May 18, 2020)

x65943 said:


> Curious how this will play out. The SX doesn't exactly sell with any preloaded games and the assertion that there is no legitimate use (like homebrew capabilities) is false.


Likely their goal is to tie these companies up in litigation. They won't have the time or money to fight it in court. Oddly enough, they'll dissolve and form a new company.


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

kingaz said:


> Because jailbroken cellphones were deemed to have legitimate uses, the practice was granted an exemption under the DMCA. Video game consoles, by contrast, were denied such an exemption under the DMCA.
> 
> You really should learn more about this stuff before you make such bold claims.


Except they didn't got denied. Though you're right, the exception only mentions cellphones. But you can still use that argument in court as no laws have been made on game consoles hacking (this is why it is considered a gray area). Hacking your consoles does have legitimate uses in the homebrew department, but there was no such case to add homebrewing as an exception yet...
Problem for this case is though, that SX used a bad marketing which means that their products can easily get deemed illegal as they're promoting the act of copyright circumvention...


Also EDIT: Technically, you could also argue that the Switch is also a tablet, which it is. Meaning that you could always fall in the legal territory by marking it as an exception x)


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## JuanBaNaNa (May 18, 2020)

I think it's fine.
I don't have a Nintendo Switch... but I'm assuming that as well as the 3DS, when you first turn on the console and agree to the User License Agreement, you hereby accept that the use of illegal hardware and software is prohibited by Nintendo.

So... to the people claiming: "Nintendo go fuck yourself because I can do whatever I want with my console" then you're wrong by this User Agreement that you accepted when you turned on your console for the first time.

Does it matter? Yes, because it's an agreement that you (the user) have with Nintendo.


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## RHOPKINS13 (May 18, 2020)

Actually I think Nintendo has a pretty good case this time. If memory serves me correctly, SX OS includes proprietary keys that Atmosphere doesn't, keys that specifically enable piracy, and the keys themselves are Nintendo's property. So while they have a case against SX OS, I don't think they'd have a case against other dongle manufacturers like xkit's RCMLoader.


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

JuanMena said:


> I think it's fine.
> I don't have a Nintendo Switch... but I'm assuming that as well as the 3DS, when you first turn on the console and agree to the User License Agreement, you hereby accept that the use of illegal hardware and software is prohibited by Nintendo.
> 
> So... to the people claiming: "Nintendo go fuck yourself because I can do whatever I want with my console" then you're wrong by this User Agreement that you accepted when you turned on your console for the first time.
> ...



Nope. In most countries, EULAs aren't very effective anyways. Plus, please note that those EULAs apply to the use of online services, warranty and other things considered a service. It cannot apply to a product, like you cannot do a thing like "By buying and using this product, you agree to give me 90% of your revenue" and you could also argue that CFWs reset the EULA file anyways and that you never accepted those terms (which Nintendo doesn't have a proof otherwise as you reinstalled a FW).


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## JayPea (May 18, 2020)

weatMod said:


> who here is old enough to know who bung is



I still have my Doctor V64 (with memory upgrade!). For some reason I have the adapter on my desk at the moment lol






Before anyone points it out, yes it's orange. I went through a phase of taking my kit apart and custom spraying everything so I ended up with a powder blue N64, with a sunset yellow V64. No, I don't know why, either.


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

RHOPKINS13 said:


> Actually I think Nintendo has a pretty good case this time. If memory serves me correctly, SX OS includes proprietary keys that Atmosphere doesn't, keys that specifically enable piracy, and the keys themselves are Nintendo's property. So while they have a case against SX OS, I don't think they'd have a case against other dongle manufacturers like xkit's RCMLoader.


They do but not for those keys, Nintendo cannot (obviously) copyright a serie of numbers...
Though, they still have a good case as Nintendo will probably use the argument of the "piracy marketing".


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## kingaz (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> Except they didn't got denied. Though you're right, the exception only mentions cellphones. But you can still use that argument in court as no laws have been made on game consoles hacking (this is why it is considered a gray area). Hacking your consoles does have legitimate uses in the homebrew department, but there was no such case to add homebrewing as an exception yet...
> Problem for this case is though, that SX used a bad marketing which means that their products can easily get deemed illegal as they're promoting the act of copyright circumvention...
> 
> 
> Also EDIT: Technically, you could also argue that the Switch is also a tablet, which it is. Meaning that you could always fall in the legal territory by marking it as an exception x)



https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ht-protection-systems-for-access-control#h-22

As far as I know, this was the most recent ruling done for jailbreaking video game consoles *specifically.* And as you might notice, the library of congress rejects homebrew as an argument to grant an exemption.

Note that there were later DMCA exemptions granted for video game preservation, but that's outside of the purview of our discussion.

Edit: In their 2015 review, the Library of Congress reaffirmed the 2012 ruling.


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## GoldenBullet (May 18, 2020)

We shouldn't be mad or even surprised about this. 70% of the people buying these and even the ones hacking their consoles are doing so to pirate games.


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## hippy dave (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> that is the followup question
> my original bung xchanger is sadly broke, but my gbxcart still works


My Doctor MGD3 card has Prince of Persia for gameboy colour on it, annoyingly I must have just left it with one game rather than a multi choice menu, and now I can't reflash it...


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## Jayinem81 (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?



Liksang was awesome, bought a lot of cool peripherals from there.


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## huma_dawii (May 18, 2020)

Nintendo is so anti-consumer... what is wrong with them. They end up selling more overpriced Switches anyway...

My pre order got cancelled and now I don't know how TX is going to go about this... I guess I shouldn't have sold my hackeable Switch lol (I sold it because it I got a V2 Switch and TX chip was going to be my way out).

Long story short, Fuck You Nintendo.


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## Amadren (May 18, 2020)

To be fair, if nintendo were making a better console, I won't buy an SX Lite at all. I'm just gonna be using it for emulators and probably android + stadia because I love the format of the console and I'm used to it. If they gave us that from the beginning, maybe less people would buy hardware to hack ?


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## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

GoldenBullet said:


> We shouldn't be mad or even surprised about this. 70% of the people buying these and even the ones hacking their consoles are doing so to pirate games.



Almost everyone uses CFW to pirate games if things were so peachy you wouldn't be hearing "my sigpatches dont work" lol. Nintendo is wasting time, resources , and money that can be used to develop kick ass games. They already have a good retaliation ring which is the banwave so all of this is pointless. 

Not everyone is going to use the modchip such as the fuse-glee and I don't see people risking voiding their warranty on this anyway. Give SXOS their bone and just accept that security wasn't great. This isn't going to stop game sales because Animal Crossing and Pokemon Sword/Shield and Zelda still sold record breaking numbers despite the games getting leaked.


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## Enryx25 (May 18, 2020)

"Nintendo is EvUL because they won't let me pirate games!!!!111!!"
Fuck most of you


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## GoldenBullet (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Almost everyone uses CFW to pirate games if things were so peachy you wouldn't be hearing "my sigpatches dont work" lol. Nintendo is wasting time, resources , and money that can be used to develop kick ass games. They already have a good retaliation ring which is the banwave so all of this is pointless.
> 
> Not everyone is going to use the modchip such as the fuse-glee and I don't see people risking voiding their warranty on this anyway. Give SXOS their bone and just accept that security wasn't great. This isn't going to stop game sales because Animal Crossing and Pokemon Sword/Shield and Zelda still sold record breaking numbers despite the games getting leaked.


Yes but even though that people are going to be banned, that is still a loss in revenue as a lot of nintendo games are offline based anyways. Unfortunately for the people that really just want to customize their switch or do more legal things, they are in the very small minority. If you want to be mad at someone, people should be mad at TX for allowing backup loading, and everyone that asks for it.


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## MrCokeacola (May 18, 2020)

Enryx25 said:


> "Nintendo is EvUL because they won't let me pirate games!!!!111!!"
> Fuck most of you


I can't in good faith buy Nintendo games.


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## Jonna (May 18, 2020)

I'm so disappointed.

I came into this thread hoping to find some enlightenment on how TS is going to handle this, or if there's anything we can do. 

Instead, it's just a bunch of people who possibly have no experience in law arguing about law.


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## SG854 (May 18, 2020)

Pirating is bad


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## Bladexdsl (May 18, 2020)

this is why i love my shield tv pro. google don't give a fuck what you do on android! got all the emus ready to go on the play store just install (and with roms) away you go


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## BaamAlex (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


Who was liksang?


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## Justinde75 (May 18, 2020)

I mean I never used SX before and I dont really think I ever will. So I dont really think this will affect me personally. Might suck for SX users though


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

kingaz said:


> https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...ht-protection-systems-for-access-control#h-22
> 
> As far as I know, this was the most recent ruling done for jailbreaking video game consoles *specifically.* And as you might notice, the library of congress rejects homebrew as an argument to grant an exemption.
> 
> ...


This case seems to be an isolated case, which is old by atleast 5 years old at this point.
The problem was that the defendant's side failed to come with arguments to counter Sony's words, although,  Sony's words where countable. The argument was made that unlocking especially allows for piracy, and while this is true, a counter-argument would be that the piracy stays illegal (obviously) and that the legality of pirating games doesn't matter to a lot of pirates anyways...

We need a proper case made for that, with good arguments. Though it won't be this one... And might not be in the near future... As you can see Nintendo only goes after SX because if they attack Atmosphere which doesn't include keys or doesn't even allow the unlocking of piracy by default, they know they're gonna lose and make console hacking legal.

Edit: You can see that this special exception request was declined, but it wasn't declared illegal.


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## Deleted User (May 18, 2020)

antiNT said:


> SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.


AFAIK the xci loader contains copyrighted material


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## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

GoldenBullet said:


> Yes but even though that people are going to be banned, that is still a loss in revenue as a lot of nintendo games are offline based anyways. Unfortunately for the people that really just want to customize their switch or do more legal things, they are in the very small minority. If you want to be mad at someone, people should be mad at TX for allowing backup loading, and everyone that asks for it.



Piracy isn't the problem Nintendo is making a big deal out of nothing i doubt if a million switches gotten hacked maybe 250k but not even a million and out of that 250k half of those are banned so suing resolves nothing. 



Justinde75 said:


> I mean I never used SX before and I dont really think I ever will. So I dont really think this will affect me personally. Might suck for SX users though



This will effect you if SXOS goes down Atmosphere will go down too.


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## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> This will effect you if SXOS goes down Atmosphere will go down too.


Considering Atmosphere doesn't brand itself as a piracy tool nor bundle the necessary patches to pull that off, very unlikely.

If Nintendo wanted to/had grounds to get rid of Atmosphere they'd have probably contacted github by now and had it removed.


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## banjo2 (May 18, 2020)

MrCokeacola said:


> I can't in good faith buy Nintendo games.



Does that still apply? Since they ended the Creator's Program. I'm not into the YouTubesphere for that kind of stuff, so I dunno.


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## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

voddy said:


> AFAIK the xci loader contains copyrighted material


Possibly, but it could also be obtained through reverse-engineering, which can be permitted. Although, as SX is obviously closed-source, there's no way to be completely sure...




Goku1992A said:


> This will effect you if SXOS goes down Atmosphere will go down too.


Except, no. SX is known to be promoting piracy through their marketing, which would be one of the big arguments for Nintendo. Atmosphere in itself doesn't have any keys or bootloader modifications to run pirated games by default, they know that if they go against Atmosphere, they will just lose the case and make console hacking completely legal instead of being in a gray area.


----------



## Justinde75 (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Piracy isn't the problem Nintendo is making a big deal out of nothing i doubt if a million switches gotten hacked maybe 250k but not even a million and out of that 250k half of those are banned so suing resolves nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> This will effect you if SXOS goes down Atmosphere will go down too.


But why should atmosphere go down? It normally doesnt support piracy.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

As far as I know you are allowed to install custom OS on your devices. Things like installing a custom rom on a phone isnt illegal either


----------



## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

@HRudyPlayZ  & @8BitWonder

They will sue Atmosphere too because they didn't make the proper security features on their CFW to block piracy. With SXOS you need a license so if Nintendo stopped them then SXOS dies.. Atmosphere doesn't die because it is free and out in the wild. SXOS and Atmosphere all know each other so if you catch one of them they will flip on the other team.

If Nintendo actually catches SXOS the whole switch scene dies (such as future CFW support) Nintendo may end up like 5.05 PS4 scene that's why teams need to stay discreet and not get caught.


----------



## J-Machine (May 18, 2020)

the solution is simple: stop having your warehouses in america


----------



## Reecey (May 18, 2020)

ChaosEternal said:


> Just like how the went after Luma or any of the half-dozen other 3DS CFWs, eh?


Eh...yeah! a huge difference let’s start with the fact that every cfw on the Nintendo Switch is based on Atmosphere code..


----------



## ciaomao (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


They used my money to pay the bill


----------



## mrgone (May 18, 2020)

BaamAlex said:


> Who was liksang?


ah, a young one
let me tell you of ye olde times
Lik_Sang


----------



## Stealphie (May 18, 2020)

Chary said:


> View attachment 209580​
> The never-ending legal battle that sees Nintendo face off against the latest copyright circumventing piracy device continues with two brand new lawsuits. On May 15th, Nintendo filed a couple of lawsuits involving entities responsible for reselling devices used for the "sole purpose of which is to hack the Nintendo Switch video game console in order to allow people to play pirated video games." The first lawsuit is against a group of websites and their respective "John Doe" owners, for anxchip.com, axiogame.com, flashcarda.com, mod3dscards.com, nx-card.com, sxflashcard.com, txswitch.com, and usachips.com, while the second suit specifically targets Tom Dilts Jr. and their company Uberchips.
> 
> 
> ...


While i don't like Team Xecuter, they're not doing anything wrong, no preloaded games, or anything like that.


----------



## mrgone (May 18, 2020)

Jayinem81 said:


> Liksang was awesome, bought a lot of cool peripherals from there.


the picture of the resident evil chainsaw controller is forever burned in my mind

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



hippy dave said:


> My Doctor MGD3 card has Prince of Persia for gameboy colour on it, annoyingly I must have just left it with one game rather than a multi choice menu, and now I can't reflash it...


ha, full multicart
i liked to fill small holes with demos from pouet.net


----------



## HideoKojima (May 18, 2020)

Two years from now there will be people on this forum arguing about which exploit is better for the new Nintendo console ...


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> @HRudyPlayZ  & @8BitWonder
> 
> They will sue Atmosphere too because they didn't make the proper security features on their CFW to block piracy.


You mean like in Atmosphere v0.11.0 where they reflected the changes to HOS 10.0.0 that moved ACID checks into loader?


----------



## Deleted User (May 18, 2020)

I'm slightly surprised at how quickly Nintendo's acted but I guess it's not totally unexpected.

These devices will just end up on aliexpress - what can Nintendo do then?


----------



## Rahkeesh (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> Possibly, but it could also be obtained through reverse-engineering, which can be permitted. Although, as SX is obviously closed-source, there's no way to be completely sure...



Its not "possible", TX is absolutely using Nintendo code in their XCI loader, not sure how most here forgot that. Nintendo may not be able to prove it in court,  but such things have happened in the past, BnetD comes to my mind when Blizzard claimed they could reproduce some bugs from their code in BnetD's server emulators and they won.


----------



## Deleted User (May 18, 2020)

8BitWonder said:


> You mean like in Atmosphere v0.11.0 where they reflected the changes to HOS 10.0.0 that moved ACID checks into loader?



What does that mean in layman's terms?


----------



## Technicmaster0 (May 18, 2020)

Shouldn't it be easy to argue that SXOS isn't an actual operating system? I mean it's just patches and partly reimplementations for the official OS.


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

blissbeef said:


> What does that mean in layman's terms?


People need to recompile loader without the check, or make loader patches alongside sigpatches to circumvent the changes.
Otherwise (illegitimate) installed content won't work.


----------



## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

8BitWonder said:


> You mean like in Atmosphere v0.11.0 where they reflected the changes to HOS 10.0.0 that moved ACID checks into loader?



Atmosphere should just stop making CFW all together because honestly it's for piracy. Let SXOS be the face of piracy. When it comes down to them being in court they can say that they stopped producing CFW

Besides these end users are not loyal anways lol once atmosphere stop supporting future CFW its going to lead people into getting SXOS anyway if they want to continue to enjoy future games


----------



## Deleted User (May 18, 2020)

8BitWonder said:


> People need to recompile loader without the check, or make loader patches alongside sigpatches to circumvent the changes.
> Otherwise (illegitimate) installed content won't work.



Which makes piracy more difficult, right?


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> When it comes down to them being in court they can say that they stopped producing CFW


Again, Nintendo is not going to take them to court because Atmosphere does not outright enable piracy or use copyrighted code.


Goku1992A said:


> Besides these end users are not loyal anways lol once atmosphere stop supporting future CFW its going to lead people into getting SXOS anyway if they want to continue to enjoy future games


Funny you say that, considering more than half of SXOS compatibility updates are ripped straight from Atmosphere.

That aside, Atmosphere is open source. There have been plenty of forks and if active development were to come to a close I can assure you another group would pick it up pretty fast.


blissbeef said:


> Which makes piracy more difficult, right?


Yes.


----------



## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Atmosphere should just stop making CFW all together because honestly it's for piracy. Let SXOS be the face of piracy. When it comes down to them being in court they can say that they stopped producing CFW
> 
> Besides these end users are not loyal anways lol once atmosphere stop supporting future CFW its going to lead people into getting SXOS anyway if they want to continue to enjoy future games


If you really want to turn this thread into another SXOS VS Atmosphere post, Atmosphere has sysmodules and support for more homebrew. XCI can also be installed legitimately by using a custom made extractor instead of Big N's code. Also, there's a high chance that A, Atmosphere will continue to update to future firmwares, as Nintendo cannot patch the vulnerability on older switches, B, a lot of people might just use multiple emunands for higher FWs anyways and C, Atmosphere isn't SX, and where SX is objectively illegal by their marketing and their use copyrighted code, Atmosphere is still in the gray area of console hacking, like i said, if Nintendo attacked Atmosphere, they wouldn't have a lot of arguments as the keys and sigpatches aren't included in it, which means that it doesn't allow piracy, which also means that they would lose the case and would make console hacking legal, which Nintendo doesn't want.


----------



## BaamAlex (May 18, 2020)

mrgone said:


> ah, a young one
> let me tell you of ye olde times
> Lik_Sang


Not young. 25 years old dude.


----------



## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

@8BitWonder & @HRudyPlayZ 

This isn't a who's CFW is better im only saying Nintendo would sue either of them. Technically speaking you are not supposed to use sigpatches with atmosphere because its not included  people are not using atmosphere as intended. Atleast with SXOS you know what you get vs Atmosphere some people have to dig a tunnel (sigpatches) to use a CFW that isn't intended to be used. Atmosphere isn't designed to run piracy but its manipulated to run it so it makes thier group liable for legal action. If no piracy could be enabled on their CFW nintendo wouldn't care about them because they aren't a threat. I'm a pirate and I understand the game I have no issues with SXOS all I'm saying don't be surprise if Atmosphere step out the scene like Kosmos when people feel the heat they drop out.


----------



## kingaz (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> This case seems to be an isolated case, which is old by atleast 5 years old at this point.
> The problem was that the defendant's side failed to come with arguments to counter Sony's words, although,  Sony's words where countable. The argument was made that unlocking especially allows for piracy, and while this is true, a counter-argument would be that the piracy stays illegal (obviously) and that the legality of pirating games doesn't matter to a lot of pirates anyways...
> 
> We need a proper case made for that, with good arguments. Though it won't be this one... And might not be in the near future... As you can see Nintendo only goes after SX because if they attack Atmosphere which doesn't include keys or doesn't even allow the unlocking of piracy by default, they know they're gonna lose and make console hacking legal.
> ...



1) This isn't "an isolated case." This is a regulation, and it has the weight of law behind it. It can be challenged, and it undergoes periodic review, but this ruling has been upheld and is in effect to this day.

2) "The special exception request was declined, but it wasn't declared illegal?" What does that even mean? The reason that an exemption was being sought in the first place is because the practice of jailbreaking is presumed to be illegal under the DMCA without one. 

Maybe you or someone else could make a more convincing argument to reverse this ruling, and you are welcome to do so when this comes up for review next year. However, my whole point is that jailbreaking video game consoles is illegal under the DMCA, and your argument that it is legal as long as you don't market it for piracy doesn't have a leg to stand on.


----------



## SpiffyJUNIOR (May 18, 2020)

They aren't doing this to get money, they are doing this in the hopes that the legal fees will force the resellers to shut down.


----------



## weatMod (May 18, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Pirating is bad


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Atmosphere isn't designed to run piracy but its manipulated to run it so it makes thier group liable for legal action.


That's like saying if I downloaded/ran Nintendo ROMs on Windows; an OS not intended to allow piracy that mind you, I wouldn't even need to make modifications to, then Microsoft can be sued for my actions.
That's completely asinine.


----------



## Astoria (May 18, 2020)

Seems like a lot of people aren't really understanding why Nintendo does this...

It doesn't matter if it's illegal or not, it doesn't matter if they win at the end of not, Nintendo knows the operators of those websites don't have the money or resources to engage in a legal fight that may last years, they will just choose to settle before any trial begins.


----------



## HRudyPlayZ (May 18, 2020)

kingaz said:


> 1) This isn't "an isolated case." This is a regulation, and it has the weight of law behind it. It can be challenged, and it undergoes periodic review, but this ruling has been upheld and is in effect to this day.
> 
> 2) "The special exception request was declined, but it wasn't declared illegal?" What does that even mean? The reason that an exemption was being sought in the first place is because the practice of jailbreaking is presumed to be illegal under the DMCA without one.
> 
> Maybe you or someone else could make a more convincing argument to reverse this ruling, and you are welcome to do so when this comes up for review next year. However, my whole point is that jailbreaking video game consoles is illegal under the DMCA, and your argument that it is legal as long as you don't market it for piracy doesn't have a leg to stand on.



1) It is an isolated case because it's one of the first and only times where there was an official legal response to it, there was only one court analyzing this case.

2) If it's not forbidden in the law, it is automatically accepted. Jailbreaking your console is still in a gray area because there's still no official law to make it illegal. The case you linked to was about adding jailbreaking as an exception, making it legal. Though, the case ended with a decline of the exception, making console hacking still in a gray area.


I have a lot of counter-arguments but i wouldn't take the risk to face Nintendo and their army of 10 billion advocates, i might write a list here at some point if i have the time...
Please also note that the DMCA can only apply in the US, making all external websites unaffected by it.
And yes my argument that the piracy marketing is what will Nintendo use in the case is pretty valid. Even if you consider hacking as infringing on the DMCA, which as of now hasn't been proved... As SX was marketed as a piracy device, Nintendo will win for sure as it is 100% illegal to promote illegal activities such as piracy, though, Atmosphere which doesn't do that and doesn't even include the keys to do so cannot be attacked as as of now, Atmosphere has a lot of counter-arguments to Nintendo and some of which being that it only aims at running homebrews, and that it still wasn't proved as illegal, where SX can't really be saved as they were proved to purposely market it as a piracy-device.


----------



## psxfun (May 18, 2020)

pkmnTobi said:


> You have a huge lack of intellectual honesty in this post if you are trying to assert that these aren't being used for 90% piracy, if not more. Also saying that Nintendo is doing this simply for the "money" is highly laughable. You do realize the amount they are suing for is a drop in the bucket for them? That their legal fees themselves aren't cheap to pursue this. They are suing these resellers because they can't sue the creators, so they go after supply. They are trying to protect their intellectual properties, something all companies have to do otherwise they will lose that property in a sense.
> 
> And yeah yeah yeah I'm all for users having control over their devices they bought, but don't be so upset when a majority of users ruin that by violating copyright infringements with that ability, and it is SXOS's main selling point. There's a reason Atmosphere is safely sitting on Github and this is being sued, and it isn't because "Nintendo evil! Money give".




Finally someone who can talk sense. I never react on this site cause its flooded with no brainers and kids, but thank you for doing so. 
This is gonna be an interesting lawsuit indeed.


----------



## MrCokeacola (May 18, 2020)

banjo2 said:


> Does that still apply? Since they ended the Creator's Program. I'm not into the YouTubesphere for that kind of stuff, so I dunno.


Never forgive, never forget.


----------



## chrisrlink (May 18, 2020)

this is why I'm babying my OG switch and keeping my lite unhacked for NSO you guys better not brick your hacked switches or your gonna be in for a tough time to hack any switch


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 18, 2020)

antiNT said:


> SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.


 
SX OS sells a license (which these mods likely come with) to use their OS, which comes preloaded with the sigpatches (or whatever they call it) required to install roms IIRC. That's promoting piracy. This is why atmosphere makes sure to never bundle sigpatches.


----------



## RHOPKINS13 (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> Nintendo cannot (obviously) copyright a serie of numbers...



Actually I think they can. Wouldn't be the first time...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime


----------



## kingaz (May 18, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> 1) It is an isolated case because it's one of the first and only times where there was an official legal response to it, there was only one court analyzing this case.
> 
> 2) If it's not forbidden in the law, it is automatically accepted. Jailbreaking your console is still in a gray area because there's still no official law to make it illegal. The case you linked to was about adding jailbreaking as an exception, making it legal. Though, the case ended with a decline of the exception, making console hacking still in a gray area.



1) It wasn't a court analyzing this case. It was the Librarian of Congress, under the statutory authority granted by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, determining whether or not to grant an exemption to video game consoles. It isn't like court rulings where there are split opinions between the courts. This is effectively the law of the land.

2) https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

This is the relevant law that makes jailbreaking expressly illegal, provided that no exemption has been granted. Give it a read.

The only thing that makes console hacking a gray area is the lack of enforcement over less explicit infringements. The law itself is quite clear.

Edit: As for your point about this applying to the US, the suit in question has been raised in the US. That being said, many other countries have similar legislation.


----------



## PatrickD85 (May 18, 2020)

Well ... this is going to spiral into;
- A] Nintendo is evil, f them for wanting to protect the ecosystem they created.
- B] SXOS cant be touched, they themselves are not doing anything bad.
- C] Everyone suddenly will be a lawyer  with an expertise in the field of piracy protection, bypassing OS, user agreements and all that
- D] All of the above.

Ehhh ... Im going with D. Yes, that is my final answer.

As for my personal stance;
In regard to A; Nintendo has every right to take action on this. They created the Nintendo Switch ecosystem.
Modification of hardware and / or software voids both warranty and violates end user agreements in a lot of cases, probably if you really take the time to check them out you would have to agree on that.

In regard to B; well ... im not going into this as this will get flame comments from each and every angle. Im not here for that.
But short answer; it ain't vanilla legal for sure.

In regard to C; im not a lawyer, and in 98% of cases probably neither are the other people here. So let's not pretend we are.
But also let's not pretend we are ignorant people as well. In a LOT of countries what the device does is considered illegal. But there probably are some wonderful countries they can put up shop and call home base, which makes things a whole lot different when it comes to law.

And most important I guess; it's a never ending battle; there will always be something new.
Even IF they can take out TX, or their resellers, a new product could pop up ...
Simply put where people see a way to profit ... ways will be found to get to that profit ...one way or another ... just look at history.


----------



## Deleted member 512337 (May 18, 2020)

PatrickD85 said:


> In regard to A; Nintendo has every right to take action on this.


they only have legal rights to take this down and nothing else.


----------



## PatrickD85 (May 18, 2020)

ChicoPancho said:


> they only have legal rights to take this down and nothing else.


Well as noted that is my opinion. 
You and everyone can have their own opinion on the matter, but that does not mean I have to agree with you or anyone on it.
As quite frankly it really boils down to law ... and besides that not being universal perhaps ... well see the rest of my post.


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Atmosphere isn't designed to run piracy but its manipulated to run it so it makes thier group liable for legal action.



lolwut, no, they aren't. Atmosphere folks aren't the ones manipulating it do this. This is like trying to suggest Nintendo could sue Sony or Microsoft because people can hack their consoles to run Nintendo games.


----------



## Brayton1-7 (May 18, 2020)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Oh what is this?
> A device that offers users to do whatever the fuck they want with the device they purchased?
> How is that illegal?
> 
> ...


There is terms of service and everything, but I get where you are coming from.


----------



## Jayro (May 18, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> fucking nintendo at it again. first it was fan made games than it was rom sites because they want you to pay $20/y to access 4 shitty OLD games each month and never release ANYTHING actual good instead of providing an actual VC. and now it's the actual chip sites... what will they try to shut down next? places that do repairs on their shitty under-powered consoles because people don't want to mail their shit to nintendo HQ where they sneakretly install the latest updates for you?!
> 
> NINTENDO


Don't forget the part where they've illegally renigged on their deal of new games every month. I'm pretty sure we have legalglegal to sue them since we're not getting everything we're paying for with the subscription.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (May 18, 2020)

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

This is the fourth TX related lawsuit if I'm not mistaken, fifth if you include the legal request to block TXs site in the UK.

Also, SX OS isn't defendable from a legal perspective, there's large segments of Nintendo's own FS module in it, as well as fragments of their gamecard headers (look for LOTUS in the decompiles), which makes providing the software in any form illegal.


----------



## Jonna (May 18, 2020)

So... who here actually has significant experience with law?

Raise your hand so I can pick you out from the crowd and give you a high five.


----------



## Deleted User (May 18, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> this is why i love my shield tv pro. google don't give a fuck what you do on android! got all the emus ready to go on the play store just install (and with roms) away you go



my uh switch runs android as well tho...so there’s that...

also for the folks thinking atmosphere team safe.  No one is safe.  Something I began to realize monitoring youtube.  It’s not really so much revenue loss lately.  It is a concerted effort to dumb people down.  Most people don’t realize it.  They literally don’t want people to hack or mod.  Look at the mass amounts of garbage on the platform.  But high level hacking /modding channels?  Nothing but problems.  Time to wake up folks.  You may not like them but if you let the system take away this ability from you then none of us are safe...

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 18, 2020)

x65943 said:


> Curious how this will play out. The SX doesn't exactly sell with any preloaded games and the assertion that there is no legitimate use (like homebrew capabilities) is false.


Neither did the R4 and legitimate use meant nothing then.

It's a device that's been advertised to circumvent DRM and allow for piracy. No amount of "muh homebrew" is going to change the fact that (much like the R4) it's a device aimed at pirates.

Also, this seems to be aimed directly at resellers and not TX themselves. So, it's not like the mods are going to magically become unpurchasable.


----------



## HarveyHouston (May 18, 2020)

If you're developing homebrew for a device, you have to make sure you're not doing anything outright illegal. The problem is that homebrew is a gray area, meaning that it can be used for both good and bad. Yes, it exploits the console in question, but for what purpose? If it is to run something you downloaded that is already free, or to mess around with something that you bought for yourself personally, that is considered fair use. Apparently, this company wanted to use these devices to run games unofficially that you are supposed to buy, but didn't. Under copyright laws, that's very much illegal.

I'm not against homebrew. I'm not against adding games by unofficial means. However, I encourage anyone who wants to play paid games in ways different than their intended means to *always have a retail copy of the game, and keep proof (receipts, invoices, etc.) that you paid for a digital copy of the game legally.* Yes, this even includes Rock Band.


----------



## Dax_Fame (May 18, 2020)

I'd be shook. TX is at the front of the canon on this one. 
Better get those chips out so they can get re'd and cloned before they're belly-up 

@Chary 5 articles between your last? Did finally you start sleeping?


----------



## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

@8BitWonder  & @Mrperson0

Atmosphere and SXOS are all tied together you can pirate games on either one so Nintendo can sue either. The whole point is "enabling" you to do something this is what the lawsuit is about "enabling" No matter what CFW it is it enables you to run pirated games on it. Not one company I know wants you to have that type of access to the system. 

Look at Xbox One as an example you have to pay $20 to access the DEV menu they dont care if you want to play retroarch and run code they already took your $ to do what you want... until the day someone actually find a way to pirate games they will take it away like how Sony did otherOS.


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> @8BitWonder  & @Mrperson0
> 
> Atmosphere and SXOS are all tied together you can pirate games on either one so Nintendo can sue either. The whole point is "enabling" you to do something this is what the lawsuit is about "enabling" No matter what CFW it is it enables you to run pirated games on it.


Atmosphere does not allow you to run pirated content.
Adding sigpatches to it, a *user* action that is outside of Atmosphere devs' control allows running pirated content.

SXOS does allow running pirated content, they package all necessary patches within their product and this is completely within their control.

It's pretty clear why they target SXOS and not Atmosphere, my friend.


----------



## frankGT (May 18, 2020)

Go go Nintendo!
Time to squash some more cockroaches...


----------



## Jayinem81 (May 18, 2020)

Does Nintendo have Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney as their lawyer? If so errerybody is screwed.

OTTH, if one of these websites would hire Phoenx Wright Acey Attorney Nintendo is screwed.


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Atmosphere and SXOS are all tied together



No, they are not. SXOS ships with sigpatches or whatever that allow you to install games, whereas Atmosphere does not. That is the clear difference between them.



Goku1992A said:


> No matter what CFW it is it enables you to run pirated games on it.



Atmosphere does not allow you to do this if you download it from the official Github.


----------



## Astoria (May 18, 2020)

Don't know if already posted but UberChips is complying and has canceled every SX order:

https://www.uberchips.com/


----------



## Bladexdsl (May 18, 2020)

seanp2500 said:


> my uh switch runs android as well tho...so there’s that...


but you have to hack it to run it. shield tv does everything straight out of the box. fuck the switch for emulation who cares if the shield tv isn't portable it does everything i need it to do. and it will never be in danger of nintenDMCA


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 18, 2020)

Bladexdsl said:


> but you have to hack it to run it. shield tv does everything straight out of the box. fuck the switch for emulation who cares if the shield tv isn't portable it does everything i need it to do. and it will never be in danger of nintenDMCA


I wish Nvidia would make another shield tablet

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Goku1992A said:


> @8BitWonder  & @Mrperson0
> 
> Atmosphere and SXOS are all tied together you can pirate games on either one so Nintendo can sue either. The whole point is "enabling" you to do something this is what the lawsuit is about "enabling" No matter what CFW it is it enables you to run pirated games on it. Not one company I know wants you to have that type of access to the system.
> 
> Look at Xbox One as an example you have to pay $20 to access the DEV menu they dont care if you want to play retroarch and run code they already took your $ to do what you want... until the day someone actually find a way to pirate games they will take it away like how Sony did otherOS.


Atmosphere does not include the patches that allow a user to run pirated Switch titles. Xbox Dev mode is also different in that regard. Being able to run Retroarch is the not same thing as installing a pirated version of Halo MCC.


----------



## Goku1992A (May 18, 2020)

@8BitWonder . @Mrperson0 

I have a feeling in future updates Atmosphere is going to permanently stop sigpatches in future updates. I personally want them to do that because if they are going to label themselves as anti piracy they need to block their firmware from being cracked for future liabilities. If you want to pirate buy a SXOS License or stay on legacy firmware where you can downgrade. Turning a blind eye isn't good enough anymore. 

@Memoir 
I never found DEV Mode appealing I don't want to spend $20 to play retroarch when I can play for free on my phone or computer lol.


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> I have a feeling in future updates Atmosphere is going to permanently stop sigpatches in future updates.


I'll personally wait for Scires to say he's blocking ips patches before assuming that, but you do you.


Goku1992A said:


> I personally want them to do that because if they are going to label themselves as anti piracy they need to block their firmware from being cracked for future liabilities. ... Turning a blind eye isn't good enough anymore.


They really don't need to block them, they just need to continue not packaging sigpatches with it like they're doing currently.

If what they've been doing isn't enough then Nintendo's legal team would have gone after the project by now.


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 18, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> I personally want them to do that because if they are going to label themselves as anti piracy they need to block their firmware from being cracked for future liabilities....Turning a blind eye isn't good enough anymore.



Why? It's more than enough for them to not allow you to pirate by downloading Vanilla Atmosphere. As long as they keep on doing that, Nintendo has nothing on them.


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## SG854 (May 18, 2020)

I'm a lawyer that got my education from the Pheonix Wright Ace Atorney Games so I know better then all of you and I say Nintendo is evil & wants money and can't shut this down because it's not within their legal right.


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## Fred Molyneux (May 18, 2020)

You are being very naive about Atmo. If Nintendo were to go after Atmo and SciresM in a country with big companies lobbying like USA, you can be 100% certain SciresM will end up in jail. There was plenty of blank or homebrew only R4 type cards etc. that never held up in court in USA. The only reason they go after TX is because when you ask real end users at a high school or whatever what they use, you have 20 TX users for 1 atmo. Gbatemp doesn't represent at all the Switch market. Atmo is peanuts for piracy (because Atmo and SX OS are used for exactly the same thing: piracy, get them to block sigpatch for real and see how many topics will be updated here about Atmo suddently -i.e.: almost none), so right now they don't bother. But just like this lawsuit came at once, don't be surprised if one morning you wake up and you hear about SciresM and al. being all under arrest.
And in general, because of the high cost, lawsuits always target the big guys, and the big guys are TX.
They know they have no hope to stop them, but their move makes sense, they go after resellers in key markets where law is in their favor or where they can bend the law with money (USA and UK are 2 good examples). This way they keep piracy under control. And they are really clever, because they know in those countries, piracy won't really improve their sales, when for example in China or India, no piracy means no sales, so anyway, they don't want to stop people there, they will be shooting themselves in the foot.


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## Kubas_inko (May 18, 2020)

antiNT said:


> SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.


The xci mounting uses some copyright stuff iirc.


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## Mrperson0 (May 18, 2020)

Fred Molyneux said:


> But just like this lawsuit came at once, don't be surprised if one morning you wake up and you hear about SciresM and al. being all under arrest.



Just like how we should have been expecting smea to get arrested for leading the way to homebrew for the 3DS? Or the loads of CFW out there for that console?


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## Kubas_inko (May 18, 2020)

> @Mrperson0
> No matter what CFW it is it enables you to run pirated games on it.



One can (and most of the time will) argue, that it's not for piracy, but for legally owned backups. But if you market it for piracy, that's a different story.

As stated before, atmosphere itself does not come with sigpatches, but sx os does. Thats where the problem lies, as sigpatches circumvent the device's "security" (not to mention the xci loading).


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## anth4m (May 18, 2020)

Don't forget that Nintendo collaborates with Tencent in China now. It may no longer be that easy for modchips and dongles to be manufactured and shipped out from China.


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## samcambolt270 (May 19, 2020)

I guess they still don't get that modding your device is legal. First sale doctrine, guys. Selling something that allows copies of a proprietary format to be made, sure, but something that simply allows unsigned code to be run is not. Just because someone _could  _use it for piracy does not make it illegal. That would make damn near everything illegal. 
Dvd burners? Didn't you know? You can use those to play pirated movies on your dvd player! BAM! illegal. And don't get me started on computers. Did you know that computers allow people to have complete access to the internet where they can pirate whatever they want!


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## MasterJ360 (May 19, 2020)

Big oof but something like this was bound to happen. I'd be a fool to say go underground, but that wont aid product sales.
Saltyendo has been purging sxos videos for a long time halting media advertisement, but that switch lite chipset was the last straw for them I guess.


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## antiNT (May 19, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> SX OS sells a license (which these mods likely come with) to use their OS, which comes preloaded with the sigpatches (or whatever they call it) required to install roms IIRC. That's promoting piracy. This is why atmosphere makes sure to never bundle sigpatches.


That's not promoting piracy at all. It also lets us play custom .nsp


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## alepman90 (May 19, 2020)

Probably Nintendo should focus on making games instead of porting WiiU library and charge $60 for it
honestly even investing for a hacked switch isn't worth it


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## anth4m (May 19, 2020)

alepman90 said:


> Probably Nintendo should focus on making games instead of porting WiiU library and charge $60 for it
> honestly even investing for a hacked switch isn't worth it


Isn't Nintendo developing new games? Those WiiU ones are just for people who never tried it since WiiU was a failure.


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## chrisrlink (May 19, 2020)

remember these are the assholes (scratch that the entire Japanese government) that made cheating in a video game a jailable offence i mean come on thats so rediculus


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## Pokemon_Tea_Sea_Jee (May 19, 2020)

alepman90 said:


> Probably Nintendo should focus on making games instead of porting WiiU library and charge $60 for it
> honestly even investing for a hacked switch isn't worth it


I do not understand why there is not a single Call of Duty title available for Switch, given how popular the platform apparently is (judging by overall worldwide sales). Ports of any CoD title before Modern Warfare 2019 would definitely have been doable.

And I agree, Nintendo platform games are always too toooooooooooooo expensive. It's annoying. PlayStation does not have that problem, I mean it has that problem on PS Store but not for physical copies.


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## Meepers55 (May 19, 2020)

Can't wait to see how this one turns out.


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## 64bitmodels (May 19, 2020)

just stop nintendo... hackers are like hydras
sue one of them and 2 more will start reselling tx chips


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## Clovus (May 19, 2020)

It's not purely for piracy. I hate it when people use that argument. You can use it for running other operating systems like Linux and Android which isn't illegal, while also using it for modding games, backing up your games and hundreds of other functions that come with all the Homebrew out there. Homebrew that doesn't use any copyrighted code and is licensed under general public licenses.


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## 64bitmodels (May 19, 2020)

Enryx25 said:


> "Nintendo is EvUL because they won't let me pirate games!!!!111!!"
> Fuck most of you


I'm just here so i can get retroarch on my switch... it's the only reason i'm getting an sx lite
also how ironic, youre saying that while youre on a pirating forum
hell, you have over 600 posts
talk about hypocritical


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## kg2 (May 19, 2020)

I see alot of people defending Atmos. No piracy out of the box, blah blah. We know what it's used for, don't be gullible.
I'm curious, why does Nintendo not go after those that make sigpatches for Atmosphere?


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## 64bitmodels (May 19, 2020)

kg2 said:


> I see alot of people defending Atmos. No piracy out of the box, blah blah. We know what it's used for, don't be gullible.
> I'm curious, why does Nintendo not go after those that make sigpatches for Atmosphere?


welcome to gbatemp
i just wanted to say that haha
and yeah, Nintendo should be suing the people making sigpatches


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## Goku1992A (May 19, 2020)

@8BitWonder . @Mrperson0
Sigpatches make CFW such as atmosphere relevant removing the sigpatches would not only clear thier image but it will indeed decrease in popularity so in a way piracy keeps atmosphere alive. I'm not a saint because I myself pirate games but lets keep it real most people would have zero interest if they couldn't pirate games that is the highlight of CFW. You can emulate almost anything off your phone or PC.

The point is this SXOS and Atmosphere need each other if one fail they all fail just remember what I said.


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## Tatsuna (May 19, 2020)

It's just some ol' role-play.

Nintendo does what it needs to do in order to be seen as an authoritarian business, conscious that in most countries this won't serve any purpose. They can protect themselves though by saying that they did all they could;
Pirates and distributors play the victim cards with which they strengthen their customers' allegiance -- helpful for the legal expenses, all the while the end-users choose on their own whether they want to hack their console or not. Some get scared and give up, some others stick with it;
Boards and sites fill their threads with messages and opinions (including myself right now) for days and days and everything ultimately comes full circle.

Just another day in our boring little world.


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## 8BitWonder (May 19, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> The point is this SXOS and Atmosphere need each other if one fail they all fail just remember what I said.


Just how like Gateway and Luma3DS need each other, otherwise they'd both fail.


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## fst312 (May 19, 2020)

NoNAND said:


> I can see where this is going
> Hopefully they won't sue the atmosphere cfw makers..


I don’t think they can actually do that because doesn’t atmosphere actually need those patch files not actually made by them to actually run switch games. Unless they try suing them based on the homebrew browser to be able to play emulators but I can’t recall if they are the ones that even developed that for the switch.


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## RedBlueGreen (May 19, 2020)

HRudyPlayZ said:


> lol irreparable damages.
> Selling SX devices isn't even illegal in most country and it's not because it is in Japan that they can impose their laws on the whole planet.


They just might be able to get you for copyright infringement though. Countries like the US enforce copyright pretty heavily, and bypassing DRM or even having the ability to do that is illegal there.


kingaz said:


> Bypassing copy protection mechanisms is illegal under both US and Mexican law (and these are far from the only countries that have such a provision).
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the DMCA (and equivalent laws in other countries), SX OS is quite illegal.


That depends on whether such country has a law (in this case it's the US, so it does) and whether or not it's actually enforced.

If SX allows you to bypass DRM then it's illegal in the US. That's why I don't get why people sell this stuff in the US. Let the guys in China or Hong Kong sell them with international shipping, since they're in a country where you're not gonna be punished just because something can circumvent DRM. I've seen online stores sell flashcarts and stuff in Canada as well, which makes a bit more sense since copyright laws aren't as strong up here (this is why you used to be able to find the "lawsuit guitars" up here, you're also unlikely to be punished for being sold or returning a counterfeit product up here because according to the relevant laws it's a crime to traffic them for sale or rent, I don't know if you'll actually be punished in the US, but we all know how the government organizations in charge of copyright related stuff there like to use severe scare tactics, YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR).

Now personally I don't think that they should be able to be sued and lose just because something can be used for piracy, the fault for that should be on the users end. After all even aluminum foil has been used to get into recovery mode.


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## TunaKetchup (May 19, 2020)

Pretty lame for them to go after the resellers.

The resellers are just honest folk trying to make a buck. They didn't create the TX modchip.

Once again Nintendo going after family-run businesses instead of the root of the problem

Fuck you Nintendo.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



8BitWonder said:


> Just how like Gateway and Luma3DS need each other, otherwise they'd both fail.



Gateway and Luma3DS are irrelevant to the Nintendo Switch

You need to take a symbolic logic class

It will teach you how to build arguments


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## RedBlueGreen (May 19, 2020)

TunaKetchup said:


> Pretty lame for them to go after the resellers.
> 
> The resellers are just honest folk trying to make a buck. They didn't create the TX modchip.
> 
> ...


Not really. They're selling something that's illegal in the US (because it can bypass copy protection) so they're being sued. They know what they're selling. It's not like they're buying or making 3D printed jigs and selling them for cheap.


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## TunaKetchup (May 19, 2020)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Not really. They're selling something that's illegal in the US (because it can bypass copy protection) so they're being sued. They know what they're selling. It's not like they're buying or making 3D printed jigs and selling them for cheap.



And like I said. these are family-run businesses

They didn't create the modchip and suing them won't stop the modchip

Nintendo is like an angry kid looking to make anybody pay


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## 64bitmodels (May 19, 2020)

alepman90 said:


> Probably Nintendo should focus on making games instead of porting WiiU library and charge $60 for it
> honestly even investing for a hacked switch isn't worth it


I swear to god if i hear another "MAkIng WIi U PortS Is baD!!!1111!!!" sentence i'm going to go on a killing spree
the console literally failed, not many people played the games on there!!
If the wii u was a success you wouldnt be seeing ports on switch! It's not that hard to understand people!!!
not everyone, hell, nearly no one wants to spend 300 dollars on a mediocre console that failed and has a very low playerbase just to play 1 game!! that's what these ports are for!!


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

TunaKetchup said:


> And like I said. these are family-run businesses
> 
> They didn't create the modchip and suing them won't stop the modchip
> 
> Nintendo is like an angry kid looking to make anybody pay


Me no lawyer, but by that logic, anyone can sell weed and get away since they ain't the one who grow plants and manufacture the end product, nor they use it on themselves.

Promoting, and distributing may be what is being implied here.

Edit: Without US/NA distributors, buyers would be more skeptical paying someone overseas to ship it. Reputable overseas distributors again would be on blacklist. Remember you're purchasing prohibited items, so when you can't rely on credit card/Payapal protection. Add trade war, pandemic, and you see it quite a hassle to buy the modchip from overseas without being scammed. Without easy access to modchip, there would be less modchip users = Nintendo's aim.


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## RedBlueGreen (May 19, 2020)

TunaKetchup said:


> And like I said. these are family-run businesses
> 
> They didn't create the modchip and suing them won't stop the modchip
> 
> Nintendo is like an angry kid looking to make anybody pay


Nintendo knows that it won't stop the modchip, that's not possible at this point, and trying would be like pissing in the wind. What they want is to stop the individual resellers they can get while getting some cash, and hoping it'll scare everyone else to keep them from selling it. It doesn't matter that it's a family owned business, because it's an illegal product to begin with, and they're knowingly selling it.

Remember when Nintendo sued the first guy to upload an ISO of New Super Mario Bros. Wii for a cool million? They knew it wasn't going to stop people from downloading that ISO, they wanted to stop sites from hosting it and stop other uploaders. They know they can't stop the end user, and they know it's a waste of time to try to sue everybody hosting the ISO, that's why they go after a big but feasible target, they want to scare everyone else.

For the record I don't think things like this should be illegal any more than I think a cable splitter should be illegal. It's the end user who can use it to pirate, though a lot of people will just use it for homebrew (I'm considering a second switch just for homebrew and rom hacks of games I own, also Skyrim mods), just like how a lot (dare I say most) of the people buying cable splitters in the early and mid 2000s were doing it because the cable company would only give you one box for one TV included in the price of your package.



64bitmodels said:


> I swear to god if i hear another "MAkIng WIi U PortS Is baD!!!1111!!!" sentence i'm going to go on a killing spree
> the console literally failed, not many people played the games on there!!
> If the wii u was a success you wouldnt be seeing ports on switch! It's not that hard to understand people!!!
> not everyone, hell, nearly no one wants to spend 300 dollars on a mediocre console that failed and has a very low playerbase just to play 1 game!! that's what these ports are for!!


Disagree here. Some games get ported because they did well. (Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition anyone?) The first party titles did sell pretty well. Super Mario 3D Wolrd sold 5.84M units, New Super Mario Bros. U sold 5.8M, Mario Kart 8 sold 8.45M. They're not porting their first party games because they didn't do well. They're doing it because they sold very well. Guess which first party titles didn't do to well? The remakes of GameCube and Wii games. The people who really wanted to play the new Mario and Zelda games (before all of the BoTW delays) got the Wii U. The first party support was pretty good at first, but Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot by not making a new main 3D Mario game for it (3D  World was like a better version of 3D Land, Wii got Galaxy 1 and 2), delaying Breath of the Wild so much that it became a Switch launch title with a Wii U version, no Fire Emblem, and no decent Pokémon spin off (Rumble doesn't count, GC got Colosseum and XD, Pokken was cool but it was a fighting game with a limited roster). Also no decent Kirby game.


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## 8BitWonder (May 19, 2020)

TunaKetchup said:


> And like I said. these are family-run businesses
> 
> They didn't create the modchip and suing them won't stop the modchip


It doesn't matter if the business is family-run, that doesnt make breaking the law ok.

Obviously Nintendo won't be able to eliminate all providers, but pursuing imminent distributors in countries where that kind of product is illegal would be plain stupid not to take advantage of.



TunaKetchup said:


> Gateway and Luma3DS are irrelevant to the Nintendo Switch.


I see that neither allusion or sarcasm are your strong-suit.
Don't worry, you'll understand those some day.


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

@RedBlueGreen

I edited, and adding point to my last post.

What I can see is by stopping onshore distributors, there would be no easy access to modchip thus less buyers. Dealing directly with overseas sellers is risky, especially for prohibited items.


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## Mrperson0 (May 19, 2020)

antiNT said:


> That's not promoting piracy at all. It also lets us play custom .nsp



These are not necessary whatsoever, as they could be placed as normal homebrew. Then, there's the fact that it can run .xci's.



Goku1992A said:


> I'm not a saint because I myself pirate games but lets keep it real most people would have zero interest if they couldn't pirate games that is the highlight of CFW.



I highly doubt that SciresM cares about popularity since they don't even make any money off of atmosphere. It doesn't matter when one or many people use it.



TunaKetchup said:


> And like I said. these are family-run businesses
> 
> They didn't create the modchip and suing them won't stop the modchip



Doesn't matter. Team Xecuter advertised their mod for piracy, and these resellers sold these items knowing that. It's pretty clear that Nintendo can't go after Team Xecuter directly, so the most they can do is stop resellers.


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## XDel (May 19, 2020)

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. 
Big business will some day reap what all it has sown.


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Doesn't matter. Team Xecuter advertised their mod for piracy, and these resellers sold these items knowing that. It's pretty clear that Nintendo can't go after Team Xecuter directly, so the most they can do is stop resellers.


It's easier to go after the distributors since they're small businesses and they are violating the country law.

Filing an international lawsuit against an entity hiding in loose country would be lengthy and costly even if one certainly win.

Nintendo's aim is making it tough for regular Joe to obtain modchip. Which is easy task by taking on distributors.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



XDel said:


> Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
> Big business will some day reap what all it has sown.


Not backing Nintendo, but if anything what you're saying is being applied to TX's business model.

Nintendo would be on a goose chase if they go after Atmosphere and the likes. Nintendo knows and they don't do that.

Here TX making profit using some code from public project. Then sugarcoating it as a business charging money for piracy. Now TX has the real legitimate business going after their shady business. Can't complain here.


----------



## smf (May 19, 2020)

x65943 said:


> Curious how this will play out. The SX doesn't exactly sell with any preloaded games and the assertion that there is no legitimate use (like homebrew capabilities) is false.



They tried that argument with flashcards and the courts rejected it.

Like they would reject a claim that you purchased 10 kilos of cocaine to use as an ornament.



kg2 said:


> I'm curious, why does Nintendo not go after those that make sigpatches for Atmosphere?



It's easier to go after companies that you can track down and the courts are more likely to understand the case. They can throw in the "organised crime" angle, which goes down well in court.

If they shut down the thread here, then it would likely show up somewhere else. It's kinda weird how people here go crazy about keys being posted, which legally aren't copyrightable (you can't copyright a number, it has no artistic merit etc) but do violate DMCA/EUCD, but allow the sig patches which fall into the same boat.


----------



## TunaKetchup (May 19, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Doesn't matter. Team Xecuter advertised their mod for piracy, and these resellers sold these items knowing that. It's pretty clear that Nintendo can't go after Team Xecuter directly, so the most they can do is stop resellers.



Yes. Why do you think I don't understand that? That's the exact thing I'm complaining about.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Nintendo suing this random reseller will do nothing but hurt the person who runs the site

TX is unaffected
Modchips are unaffected
Piracy is unaffected

Really all Nintendo is doing is setting out to destroy some random guys' life.


----------



## pkmnTobi (May 19, 2020)

TunaKetchup said:


> Yes. Why do you think I don't understand that? That's the exact thing I'm complaining about.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...



Excuse me while I play the worlds' tiniest violin for the "random guys" who are selling/dropshipping products that are illegal in their country.

They knew the risks, Nintendo isn't hurting honest people.

Sueing distributions means less products available in reasonable amounts of times, which means less willing customers. They are doing what they can and it will have an effect - albeit not a permanent solution obviously.


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## Mrperson0 (May 19, 2020)

TunaKetchup said:


> Really all Nintendo is doing is setting out to destroy some random guys' life.



They aren't destroying an innocent person's life. The seller knows that they selling illegal things to make a profit.


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## XDel (May 19, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> It's easier to go after the distributors since they're small businesses and they are violating the country law.
> 
> Filing an international lawsuit against an entity hiding in loose country would be lengthy and costly even if one certainly win.
> 
> ...



I'm kind of looking at it like this. First off, Piracy does not hurt the industry, so going after and ruining the lives of small guys with small businesses like TX is evil, plain and simple. Secondly, I am pretty sure that TX never had a problem with employees jumping off its roof to their deaths, and then simply placed safety nets around the business as a prevention measure.


----------



## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

XDel said:


> I'm kind of looking at it like this. First off, Piracy does not hurt the industry, so going after and ruining the lives of small guys with small businesses like TX is evil, plain and simple. Secondly, I am pretty sure that TX never had a problem with employees jumping off its roof to their deaths, and then simply placed safety nets around the business as a prevention measure.


Piracy does hurts the industry, especially those smaller game studios. Imagine you start up, and release your game on a platform which got compromised and can't make sale. Piracy is the reason, it comes into the era that you have to pay for hundreds of stupid DLCs, addons, and game studios decided to split toward certain platform leading gamers having to purchase other consoles & theirs services, instead of focusing on building library for their preferred console.

Distributors ain't employees. If these people are indeed TX employees, prove that, and they're clear. They're employees to do their job, and the company as an entity is the one to deal with the lawsuit, with employees act as witnesses. Calling TX a business is sarcastic in case you still don't get it.

No distributors, then it's checkmate for TX hide and seek business model. TX either distribute these device themselves or they make little sale. Nintendo goes after the distributors for a reason: Nobody would be able to help you against a giant. Is it worth the risk, having your life fucked up for some cowards to taking the big chunk of profits?


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## weatMod (May 19, 2020)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Nintendo knows that it won't stop the modchip, that's not possible at this point, and trying would be like pissing in the wind. What they want is to stop the individual resellers they can get while getting some cash, and hoping it'll scare everyone else to keep them from selling it. It doesn't matter that it's a family owned business, because it's an illegal product to begin with, and they're knowingly selling it.
> 
> Remember when Nintendo sued the first guy to upload an ISO of New Super Mario Bros. Wii for a cool million? They knew it wasn't going to stop people from downloading that ISO, they wanted to stop sites from hosting it and stop other uploaders. They know they can't stop the end user, and they know it's a waste of time to try to sue everybody hosting the ISO, that's why they go after a big but feasible target, they want to scare everyone else.
> 
> ...


it's not an illegal product though


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> it's not an illegal product though


https://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

The end of page 3 and most of page 4 would refute your claim.

Modchip is not in exception list.


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## Essasetic (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> it's not an illegal product though


This is a debate I don't want to start up again.

But it is.


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## smilodon (May 19, 2020)

How Nintendo dare trying to make those thing hard to buy? This a totally legit product used for totally legit means. TX products should be sold alongside other games in stores and become a top seller.


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## Enryx25 (May 19, 2020)

64bitmodels said:


> I'm just here so i can get retroarch on my switch... it's the only reason i'm getting an sx lite
> also how ironic, youre saying that while youre on a pirating forum
> hell, you have over 600 posts
> talk about hypocritical


Come on don't act like most of the users here don't actually use SX to pirate games.
This is a emulating/hacking forum btw, not a pirating one. I admit of pirating 3DS games but I acknowledge I'm in the wrong and Nintendo is right in this situation.


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## MasterJ360 (May 19, 2020)

Well maybe if Nintendo didn't have a shitty service that charges us to backup our saves for "certain" games we wouldn't need to hack our switch let alone dump games for other reasons.


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## Juggalo Debo (May 19, 2020)

Dont need darkweb for that just sell from china based store (or other like countries) ship as something inconspicuous like pc parts (like they did with ps3 usb sticks)


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## Tere Valentin (May 19, 2020)

Well heres hoping Xenoblade leaks early before things get much worse.
What surprised me is that Nintendo didnt do sh*t when ACNH leaked early. But hey, I guess thru their eyes, suing resellers and Team Xecute gets them way more $.


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## RedBlueGreen (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> it's not an illegal product though


It's sole purpose is to bypass copy protection, which is illegal in the US. Under the DMCA that makes it an illegal product.

"Section 1201 proscribes devices or services that fall within any one of the
following three categories:
- they are primarily designed or produced to circumvent;
- they have only limited commercially significant purpose or use other
than to circumvent; or
- they are marketed for use in circumventing."

It's an illegal product, at least in the US. The reason blank storage mediums (CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray discs, etc) aren't illegal there is because they have legitimate legal uses. I used cable splitters as an earlier example, they have legitimate uses, like plugging in an extra modem or cable box, so they're legal even though they could also be used to "steal" cable.


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## subcon959 (May 19, 2020)

I didn't read all the thread but since it has TX in the title I have a pretty good idea. What I don't get is how it's so many pages. Surely, going after *re-sellers* of modchips/cfw is a well-established (and defendable) practice by now. It doesn't really change much in the end though.


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## RedBlueGreen (May 19, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> I didn't read all the thread but since it has TX in the title I have a pretty good idea. What I don't get is how it's so many pages. Surely, going after *re-sellers* of modchips/cfw is a well-established (and defendable) practice by now. It doesn't really change much in the end though.


Yes, but it's Nintendo we're talking about who has also tried to sue individuals who modded their Wiis.

This is the best way to go about it. There's no point in suing the end user of mod chips and flash carts because that won't stop anything. Suing the resellers actually makes it more difficult for said products to make their way into the wild (of course they'd probably have to file an injunction to stop the sales of the TX products to actually stop the things from being sold).


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## kumikochan (May 19, 2020)

antiNT said:


> SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.


it is, the xios loader is entirely that so they do have a case


----------



## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

x65943 said:


> Curious how this will play out. The SX doesn't exactly sell with any preloaded games and the assertion that there is no legitimate use (like homebrew capabilities) is false.


Actually, it's probably been answered. But they have right according to the DMCA. 



> (A) to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and



Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention

They got the law on their side.


----------



## Kadji (May 19, 2020)

From this forum:

"Since the latest SXOS contain illegal numbers in plaintext, it will no longer be allowed to link to TX or SX.
Also SX Installer aren't allowed to link either since containing keys, if even lightly encrypted.

It's however fine to talk about but not link to them."

I guess this is still the case? If so, then...

Compare it to the case Nintendo vs. Tengen from back in the days of the NES.
Atari circumvemted the NES copy protection (NES10 Lockout Chip) by using the patents from Nintendo, to build a clone of the Lockout Chip. A court later ruled in favor of Nintendo.

Tengen would have been fine if they had not used any properitary Nintendo Code.

Now, the big question is: Are encryption keys / decryption keys the property of Nintendo?
Think back to when BluRays came to the market and someone posting the magic hexadecimal numbers everywhere (they were even on T-Shirts), yet Programs to RIP a BluRay did not include the magix hexadecimal numbers, because then they would be breaking law.

SX-OS seems to have encryption keys from Nintendo backed into the software.
Nintendo does have the right to fill a lawsuit in my opinion.

Oh, and the money they want? Peanuts compared to the money they make by selling soft/hardware, yet it is a big amount for a smal reseller. They want to scare them so they don't sell the product.


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## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

Kadji said:


> From this forum:
> 
> "Since the latest SXOS contain illegal numbers in plaintext, it will no longer be allowed to link to TX or SX.
> Also SX Installer aren't allowed to link either since containing keys, if even lightly encrypted.
> ...


They do have those keys baked in. Why you don't need to use a tool for example Lockpick RCM. However, they got propitary code for the firmware of the cart slot. Thats why they can emulate a inserted card in the Switch. Why people also haven't done a opensource software yet. Even if it's possible to make one without Nintendo code, it will be a lot harder plus people don't wanna bring in Nintendo's wrath.


----------



## zxr750j (May 19, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?



"Thank you for your Order at Lik-Sang.com! Did you know that you can see the status of your order, track your package, print an invoice or update your personal information on our web site?"

And no: No flashcards, I just bought some Pokemon figures...


----------



## eriol33 (May 19, 2020)

I think one of the terms and conditions of using a copyrighted device is, you must not tamper. I think it's okay for Nintendo to pursue this as they want to keep the faith of third party developers, although I am yet to know what's the impact of piracy to video game software sales. PS Vita was safe from piracy and it still failed anyway, and I assume only very few people actually tamper their video game consoles as majority just want to play video games with online features.

I am yet to buy a switch, but when I have one, I probably will not jailbreak it or anything since being offline all the time seems a tough trade off for me these days.


----------



## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

eriol33 said:


> I think one of the terms and conditions of using a copyrighted device is, you must not tamper. I think it's okay for Nintendo to pursue this as they want to keep the faith of third party developers, although I am yet to know what's the impact of piracy to video game software sales. PS Vita was safe from piracy and it still failed anyway, and I assume only very few people actually tamper their video game consoles as majority just want to play video games with online features.
> 
> I am yet to buy a switch, but when I have one, I probably will not jailbreak it or anything since being offline all the time seems a tough trade off for me these days.


I always think there is a minority that pirates. Most of them would never bought a game anyway most of the time.


----------



## Pokemon_Tea_Sea_Jee (May 19, 2020)

People can do whatever they want with their own property.

I mean, other than using their property to attack other persons or something like that.


----------



## XDel (May 19, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> Piracy does hurts the industry, especially those smaller game studios. Imagine you start up, and release your game on a platform which got compromised and can't make sale. Piracy is the reason, it comes into the era that you have to pay for hundreds of stupid DLCs, addons, and game studios decided to split toward certain platform leading gamers having to purchase other consoles & theirs services, instead of focusing on building library for their preferred console.
> 
> Distributors ain't employees. If these people are indeed TX employees, prove that, and they're clear. They're employees to do their job, and the company as an entity is the one to deal with the lawsuit, with employees act as witnesses. Calling TX a business is sarcastic in case you still don't get it.
> 
> No distributors, then it's checkmate for TX hide and seek business model. TX either distribute these device themselves or they make little sale. Nintendo goes after the distributors for a reason: Nobody would be able to help you against a giant. Is it worth the risk, having your life fucked up for some cowards to taking the big chunk of profits?







tivu100 said:


> Piracy does hurts the industry, especially those smaller game studios. Imagine you start up, and release your game on a platform which got compromised and can't make sale. Piracy is the reason, it comes into the era that you have to pay for hundreds of stupid DLCs, addons, and game studios decided to split toward certain platform leading gamers having to purchase other consoles & theirs services, instead of focusing on building library for their preferred console.
> 
> Distributors ain't employees. If these people are indeed TX employees, prove that, and they're clear. They're employees to do their job, and the company as an entity is the one to deal with the lawsuit, with employees act as witnesses. Calling TX a business is sarcastic in case you still don't get it.
> 
> No distributors, then it's checkmate for TX hide and seek business model. TX either distribute these device themselves or they make little sale. Nintendo goes after the distributors for a reason: Nobody would be able to help you against a giant. Is it worth the risk, having your life fucked up for some cowards to taking the big chunk of profits?



Let me ask you this,"why do you care, really?"


----------



## ChokingVictim87 (May 19, 2020)

Sucks this is happening but not surprised. I was more shocked Nintendo managed to get UK internet providers to block access to the Team Xecuter site and forum (seemed pretty Orwellian but then again the powers that be here are chomping at the bit to ban anything and everything).

Wonder if this will affect the upcoming mod for the newer units and lite?

As for piracy, I would argue it doesn't harm the industry, rather it helps it. Ive lost tracked of how many games I wouldn't have gone out and bought had it not been for R4 cards, 3DS CFW or SXOS.  Personally, it allowed me to try before I bought and discover games I may never have given a 2nd look at. Then there is the main reason I hack my console-save backups and editing.


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

XDel said:


> Let me ask you this,"why do you care, really?"


Did you even read?

Spend more money on console, since pirate ridden console would be phased out, by game makers, and console maker.

Spend more service, and add-ons as battling piracy, and cheaters, they put extra layers of protection to cover the loss made by those kind of people.

The consumer is the one who lose.

 So back at you, if you don't care, then why you're here? Just for piracy?


----------



## JoeBloggs777 (May 19, 2020)

linuxares said:


> I always think there is a minority that pirates. Most of them would never bought a game anyway most of the time.



I can't find the article at the mo, but this will do for now 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-downloaded-The-Vatican-says-games-maker.html

also I've read somewhere, it could be regarding this game , that many people only played it a couple of times


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## XDel (May 19, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> Did you even read?
> 
> Spend more money on console, since pirate ridden console would be phased out, by game makers, and console maker.
> 
> ...




 Well, it's just that I study a lot of history, and while there are many things I do not understand, I do understand that there were and in some remote places, still are, people who get along in life just fine without this market place that were are all told we are dependent upon for our well being. Surely they are not the most sacred thing in life that we must be defending, and surely we have the capacity to create other means to survive and find peace and happiness through. And as I see it, trade marks and intellectual property laws often times seem like another means of oppression as well as a means to consolidate power. After all, the majority of popular culture today comes not from our parents, our elders, or from the silent place within, but from those who control the satellites. I dunno... so much to factor in, but I don't feel sorry for Nintendo, but I am grateful for those people who happen to work for them as some of them have truly made an art form out of what they do. As for me though, I don't know if I could make profit off of my art, it would add unwanted pressures, and often times if you are trying to say something or evoke certain feelings or thoughts within people through your medium, that you find your self censored because of the market place and its interests once more.


----------



## rmorris003 (May 19, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


Yep, I got my JAP PSP from them way before North America had it. I miss them for all the cool gadgets they sold. I also bought a original xbox looking a/v switcher from them for my crt back in the day.


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## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

JoeBloggs777 said:


> I can't find the article at the mo, but this will do for now
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-downloaded-The-Vatican-says-games-maker.html
> 
> also I've read somewhere, it could be regarding this game , that many people only played it a couple of times


So does that make it a religious exemption if you're a catholic?


----------



## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

ChokingVictim87 said:


> Sucks this is happening but not surprised. I was more shocked Nintendo managed to get UK internet providers to block access to the Team Xecuter site and forum (seemed pretty Orwellian but then again the powers that be here are chomping at the bit to ban anything and everything).
> 
> Wonder if this will affect the upcoming mod for the newer units and lite?
> 
> As for piracy, I would argue it doesn't harm the industry, rather it helps it. Ive lost tracked of how many games I wouldn't have gone out and bought had it not been for R4 cards, 3DS CFW or SXOS.  Personally, it allowed me to try before I bought and discover games I may never have given a 2nd look at. Then there is the main reason I hack my console-save backups and editing.


It works both way. Try the games. Don't like it. Not buying.

Demo is there for a reason. With limited gameplay to incite curiosity even if initial impression fails. Give everyone access to full game, then more often than not, a wrong move by game developer, the game would bomb.

If some hidden gem games failed their sale, the game studio can learn and improve. A game totally bombs for the mass would be a mountain for the game studio to climb in their next project, especially the new kid in block game studios.


XDel said:


> Well, it's just that I study a lot of history, and while there are many things I do not understand, I do understand that there were and in some remote places, still are, people who get along in life just fine without this market place that were are all told we are dependent upon for our well being. Surely they are not the most sacred thing in life that we must be defending, and surely we have the capacity to create other means to survive and find peace and happiness through. And as I see it, trade marks and intellectual property laws often times seem like another means of oppression as well as a means to consolidate power. After all, the majority of popular culture today comes not from our parents, our elders, or from the silent place within, but from those who control the satellites. I dunno... so much to factor in, but I don't feel sorry for Nintendo, but I am grateful for those people who happen to work for them as some of them have truly made an art form out of what they do. As for me though, I don't know if I could make profit off of my art, it would add unwanted pressures, and often times if you are trying to say something or evoke certain feelings or thoughts within people through your medium, that you find your self censored because of the market place and its interests once more.


Unless everything and everyone are totally the same, it's all but a pipe dream. Hot weather would require cooling, while cold weather would require heating. One live all their lives in one area can't be the same as another in different area. If they are to leave to experience different then this are would lose a person, and somehow to replace that person, or eventually it's a dead area. Naturally things "trade". To get one thing you have to give something in return = market.

It's impossible for everyone to be the same and to allow everyone to access everything to their heart's desire. Individual, small community can afford some sort some equality ideal; yet history has proven over and over again this would fail on large scale.


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## shanefromoz (May 19, 2020)

It will depend country by country how the law is applied
Nintendo will never stop mod chips


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

shanefromoz said:


> It will depend country by country how the law is applied
> Nintendo will never stop mod chips


They're protecting their income from their biggest consuming market.


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## Xzi (May 19, 2020)

The results of this will be really interesting.  IIRC a US judge recently struck down the idea that a warranty can be voided because of attempted repair/disassembly by the end user, so it _is_ legal to repair or modify devices for personal use.  I also think it'll be somewhat difficult for Nintendo to prove that the sole purpose of TX devices is piracy.  OTOH, where they might have TX backed into a corner is the OS.  If SX OS has any small bit of Horizon's code left in it, the judge may very well rule in Nintendo's favor based on that alone.


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## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The results of this will be really interesting.  IIRC a US judge recently struck down the idea that a warranty can be voided because of attempted repair/disassembly by the end user, so it _is_ legal to repair or modify devices for personal use.  I also think it'll be somewhat difficult for Nintendo to prove that the sole purpose of TX devices is piracy.  OTOH, where they might have TX backed into a corner is the OS.  If SX OS has any small bit of Horizon's code left in it, the judge may very well rule in Nintendo's favor based on that alone.


The thing is TX is not here to defend their 'product', to counter argue against Nintendo (of America). Even that, it's a uphill battle. If this is a genuine product, TX wouldn't need these distributors in the first place! These distributors are royally screwed, unless they have something on TX, they can turn in the big boss for their own safety.

The big corporation has money to go all the way in legal battle. They're not alone in this since if Supreme Court rule in consumers' favor, they big corporations are gonna lose their cake.


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## XDel (May 19, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> It works both way. Try the games. Don't like it. Not buying.
> 
> Demo is there for a reason. With limited gameplay to incite curiosity even if initial impression fails. Give everyone access to full game, then more often than not, a wrong move by game developer, the game would bomb.
> 
> ...



True true, there has always been trade, but there has not always been the market place, just as strictly materialistic values have not always superseded other values. We missed something along the way and it has crippled out ability to be self sufficient, rational, and in accord with this natural creation and it's natural technologies.


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## MetoMeto (May 19, 2020)

Let the people play video games whatever way they want, pirated or legitimate, for fucks sake!!!
Who *WANT *they will buy your fucking games for the love of....the ones that won't buy, they wont buy, no matter if pirates exist or not!
Jesus christ with these lawsuits already....

_Nintendo is really becoming annoying company as of lately. _


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## Xzi (May 19, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> If this is a genuine product, TX wouldn't need these distributors in the first place!


That's not necessarily true, everyday products are sold through resellers all the time.  Hell, even Amazon is just one big reseller.  OTOH I will concede that resellers shouldn't have to mask their identities if they truly believe their products are free of legal issues.



MetoMeto said:


> the ones that won't buy, they wont buy, no matter if pirates exist or not!


I mean, that's kinda the point.  Nintendo would rather have people who refuse to buy their products not be able to play them.  The same is true of every AAA developer/publisher.  Indie games are _sometimes_ the exception because their developers are just happy to get more exposure one way or another.


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## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

MetoMeto said:


> Let the people play video games whatever way they want, pirated or legitimate, for fucks sake!!!
> Who *WANT *they will buy your fucking games for the love of....the ones that won't buy, they wont buy, no matter if pirates exist or not!
> Jesus christ with these lawsuits already....
> 
> _Nintendo is really becoming annoying company as of lately. _


Well... the same would be said for any store. They rather people never visited it if they didn't intend to buy anything. Especially if they gonna steal a Milk carton, they rather never set foot there in the first place.

I do understand why they do these lawsuits. They kind of have to do it.


----------



## SuperDan (May 19, 2020)

Nintendo is on a roll this month as much as I love my hacked switch and other consoles... I can't blame them for doing this... If it was. My company I'd probably do the same.... But still I'm interested in how this will work out...  But this won't stop the glorious hackers out there....   But I bet the people involved with TX are shit scared...  As I would be


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## MetoMeto (May 19, 2020)

linuxares said:


> Well... the same would be said for any store. They rather people never visited it if they didn't intend to buy anything. Especially if they gonna steal a Milk carton, they rather never set foot there in the first place.
> 
> I do understand why they do these lawsuits. They kind of have to do it.


I think you misinterpreted the point...that's all i will say.


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## leerpsp (May 19, 2020)

Same thing happened with R4 cards back in the day something will happen with other modchips from now tell the day we die its a cat and mouse game that can not be won. When the successor to the switch comes out I think I will go full legit and stop with the cfw and all, Hell I got an unhacked switch lite that I plan on keeping that way and been buying my games legit I only have the hacked switch to transfer a few items/pokemon I need and really don't use it anymore since I got the switch lite and I'm in a good place in life to were I have the money to buy my games without a problem and witch is what Iv been doing and I find the games I buy I beat unlike the ones I had on my hacked switch.


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## MetoMeto (May 19, 2020)

SuperDan said:


> Nintendo is on a roll this month as much as I love my hacked switch and other consoles... I can't blame them for doing this... If it was. My company I'd probably do the same.... But still I'm interested in how this will work out...  But this won't stop the glorious hackers out there....   But I bet the people involved with TX are shit scared...  As I would be


That's probably why you understand them, because you would do the same... to me that's a problem, when someone justify someone because they sympathies with them.

You know what, laws are made by humans, humans are imperfect, so just because its their right it doesnt mean they are in the right.
There are many ways, many better ways to do the same thing.

This is just aggressive and bad way imo. It's a temporary good, but in long run i dont think it will be or it will attract completly different audience to nintendo. Eather way, Nintendo is not what it used to be. Im not saying they wherent sueing, but they where not this greedy and sue focused even though internet wasnt that big before, still, politics of a company was different and i dont need to know details i can just see that they changed. After iwata nothing is the same tbh.


----------



## tivu100 (May 19, 2020)

Xzi said:


> That's not necessarily true, everyday products are sold through resellers all the time.  Hell, even Amazon is just one big reseller.  OTOH I will concede that resellers shouldn't have to mask their identities if they truly believe their products are free of legal issues.
> 
> 
> I mean, that's kinda the point.  Nintendo would rather have people who refuse to buy their products not be able to play them.  The same is true of every AAA developer/publisher.  Indie games are sometimes the exception because their developers are just happy to get more exposure one way or another.


I know what you meant I am sure you would know my angle too.

Nintendo sells their new consoles via retailers, so we don't need to go far for an example. Manufacturers are the one who are dealing all kind of paperwork for their products to be permitted to be sold to consumers.  Retailers provide infrastructure, the know how to direct the interact and support consumers. The middleman (retailer) are that good at what they're doing, or all manufacturers would just sell directly to increase profit margin.

Onto TX, are they business legal in the first place? Their distributors ain't exactly licensed retailers either. These sites popped up to sell and disappeared sometime later. Not the kind of infrastructure and consumer-retailer relationship, that real manufacturers would require their service to build a market for their product. This kind of set up results in what we see right now with these lawsuit. These distributors are the fall guy, where they have nothing to fight back, while TX can just ditch them like they never knew each other.

 No licensed retailer, reseller would submit their businesses to this kind situation where they're on their own to deal with all legal stuffs. This is just smuggling.


----------



## depaul (May 19, 2020)

-Nintendo will pay millions for lawyers
-TX will pay millions for lawyers
-Courts will make the case take longer and longer ... maybe years... so that every party pay more lawyer fees. Not to talk about probable bribes and courts expenses.

I hate law because it's working like this.


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## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

depaul said:


> -Nintendo will pay millions for lawyers
> -TX will pay millions for lawyers
> -Courts will make the case take longer and longer ... maybe years... so that every party pay more lawyer fees. Not to talk about probable bribes and courts expenses.
> 
> I hate law because it's working like this.


TX won't pay shit. This isn't their issue, it's the stores that sells them.


----------



## SuperDan (May 19, 2020)

MetoMeto said:


> That's probably why you understand them, because you would do the same... to me that's a problem, when someone justify someone because they sympathies with them.
> 
> You know what, laws are made by humans, humans are imperfect, so just because its their right it doesnt mean they are in the right.
> There are many ways, many better ways, to do the same thing.
> ...


Fair enough.. But if someone stole from you & you found out... What would you do about it?...  Anyways I would find them and deal with them...  One way or another.. But I do see your point I grew up playing Nintendo games as a broke kid from a broken home for me its a karma flex.. Nintendo prices for games has always been a joke over the years... But that's enough Ranting for me.. I'm at work


----------



## placez (May 19, 2020)

just get a warehouse outside the US


----------



## Tatsuna (May 19, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> Piracy does hurts the industry, especially those smaller game studios. Imagine you start up, and release your game on a platform which got compromised and can't make sale. Piracy is the reason, it comes into the era that you have to pay for hundreds of stupid DLCs, addons, and game studios decided to split toward certain platform leading gamers having to purchase other consoles & theirs services, instead of focusing on building library for their preferred console.
> 
> Distributors ain't employees. If these people are indeed TX employees, prove that, and they're clear. They're employees to do their job, and the company as an entity is the one to deal with the lawsuit, with employees act as witnesses. Calling TX a business is sarcastic in case you still don't get it.
> 
> No distributors, then it's checkmate for TX hide and seek business model. TX either distribute these device themselves or they make little sale. Nintendo goes after the distributors for a reason: Nobody would be able to help you against a giant. Is it worth the risk, having your life fucked up for some cowards to taking the big chunk of profits?



Sorry but no matter how much you ramble, lots of studies have been made and it's always been noticed how piracy doesn't really affect the industry. What you may lose in one-not-paying-customer is overrun by word of mouth and spreading of same game which makes other people actually buy it.

I repeat: several studies and researches, not just a random one. I always smile thinking people could really believe that gaming studios wouldn't spam all over their pages how bad piracy is if only they could and studies were on their same page.


----------



## JustBrandonT (May 19, 2020)

kingaz said:


> Bypassing copy protection mechanisms is illegal under both US and Mexican law (and these are far from the only countries that have such a provision).
> Because of the DMCA (and equivalent laws in other countries), SX OS is quite illegal.



This is false. By-passing/Circumventions is completely legal when done correctly. IE: Blackbox by-passing is just one example.

One famous case of reverse engineering was the first non-IBM implementation of the PC BIOS which launched the historic IBM PC compatible industry that has been the overwhelmingly dominant computer hardware platform for many years. Reverse engineering of software is protected in the U.S. by the fair use exception in copyright law.[16] The Samba software, which allows systems that are not running Microsoft Windows systems to share files with systems that are, is a classic example of software reverse engineering,[17] since the Samba project had to reverse-engineer unpublished information about how Windows file sharing worked, so that non-Windows computers could emulate it. The Wine project does the same thing for the Windows API, and OpenOffice.org is one party doing this for the Microsoft Office file formats.

- Wikipedia​It is true. Wine is very famous for emulating and reverse engineering WinAPI which is copyrighted work. OpenOffice exists by literally reverse engineering and by-passing all of the copy protections to write an open version of Microsoft Office for Linux and other operating systems..
Perhaps the most famous of all is *ReactOS *which is literally Windows OS reverse engineered fully.. Likewise Hackintosh is only illegal by Eula and wouldn't stand up in court as Apple refuses to support hardware such as Nvidia GPUs and certain CPUs. You are allowed to reverse engineer stuff for compatibility.

One reason *rdpwrap* got taken down for is because Microsoft literally owns Github and enforced their Eula. That's about it.

The only problem is that TX actually markets their shit for piracy and even ships with *signature patches*? IIRC. If that statement is true, they are fucked.

- 
As a company, I'd be reasonable and offer a trial.. but the fight will still be there for a licensed version of anything I make. It would suck if someone came into my house and stole my game collections. Likewise, companies feel the same.


----------



## medoli900 (May 19, 2020)

Tatsuna said:


> Sorry but no matter how much you ramble, lots of studies have been made and it's always been noticed how piracy doesn't really affect the industry. What you may lose in one-not-paying-customer is overrun by word of mouth and spreading of same game which makes other people actually buy it.
> 
> I repeat: several studies and researches, not just a random one. I always smile thinking people could really believe that gaming studios wouldn't spam all over their pages how bad piracy is if only they could and studies were on their same page.


https://www.greenheartgames.com/201...lator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/


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## weatMod (May 19, 2020)

RedBlueGreen said:


> It's sole purpose is to bypass copy protection, which is illegal in the US. Under the DMCA that makes it an illegal product.
> 
> "Section 1201 proscribes devices or services that fall within any one of the
> following three categories:
> ...


but it isn't it allows you to run linux and android among other things


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> but it isn't it allows you to run linux and android among other things



Doesn't matter. It comes shipped with SX OS, which runs a modified Nintendo OS, and uses Nintendo's code to emulate carts.


----------



## weatMod (May 19, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Doesn't matter. It comes shipped with SX OS, which runs a modified Nintendo OS, and uses Nintendo's code to emulate carts.


it comes with no software in the box


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> it comes with no software in the box



Both the old variant and the new modchip come with their bootloader and SX OS.


----------



## Tatsuna (May 19, 2020)

medoli900 said:


> https://www.greenheartgames.com/201...lator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/


Yeah, yeah.
Let's take one case and make it real for everything and everyone.
This, this and this. Enjoy.


----------



## SoulOfGazza (May 19, 2020)

Ripped off by uberchips ?

get your money back now from the owner

https://gbatemp.net/members/game_over_tom.470551/

message to gary bowser - tell Max your boss I have passed on all the details to the law firm involved linking him and you to axiogame so expect some papers through the door any day soon
Told you I wouldn't forget you ripping me off


----------



## RedBlueGreen (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> but it isn't it allows you to run linux and android among other things


It includes SX OS which circumvents copy protection and it's entire purpose is for installing that CFW, which allows you to pirate things. So it's illegal under the DMCA. It doesn't matter that it also allows you to run homebrew, it was designed to circumvent copy protection, which it does.

It's objective fact that it violates the DMCA, and falls under what they define as a prohibited product.


----------



## TVL (May 19, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?



They did survive the lawsuits filed against them for selling modchips and premodded consoles though... Sony killed them four years later with their lawsuit for selling the PSP to markets where it wasn't released yet. You probably knew that though.

Regarding what is happening with this case I don't think they need to be right, they just let the company they are after bleed to death in court, like Sony also did with the people who made Bleem.


----------



## realtimesave (May 19, 2020)

MaxConsole aka Gary OPA got into the bad business habit of selling pirated software through service and USB stick (True Blue, not the Madonna album though).

I got perm banned from maxconsole after refusing to review the True Blue and deleting my post of some software that allowed you (for pay) to illegally download copyrighted material possibly directly from Nintendo's servers.

A user called xaiNiax on there recovered my deleted review and re-posted it without my permission but who cares, that shit probably doesn't work any more anyways.

Furthermore, it is funny that everyone knows Max L. owns all of this.  Gary has not much money so it doesn't help to go directly after him (nor would I wish anything to happy to Gary anyways, or Max for that matter).  These guys have brought us some excellent products and updates.

I can't say that the SX products are not illegal and should be allowed in the US because everyone knows about the DMCA and what it contains so I won't go into that.

I cannot be responsible for anyone purchasing pirated software nor am I dumb enough to sell mod chips and similar items in the US.  Just let someone else do that and get busted for it.  I don't sell software that I do not own and never will.

p.s. those tempers whom think Gbatemp doesn't cater to computer piracy shouldn't even be using this website.  I'm not saying that gbatemp hosts pirated material (they don't, and I know for a fact that they do NOT have a back door or anything hosting any pirated material whatsoever)  Let me briefly elaborate.  Once GBATEMP disassociated itself from efnet IRC, they no longer had ties at all to any pirated games.  Also I don't believe that the owner of this website uses copyrighted material, he has a family and is too busy to pirate computer games.  but this web site was founded on piracy and circumvention of copy protection devices.  Just be thankful that this website is even allowed to exist.


----------



## MagnesG (May 19, 2020)

linuxares said:


> I always think there is a minority that pirates. Most of them would never bought a game anyway most of the time.


Well it will certainly doesn't spark confidence to the investors and devs, and having the option would limit the growth of purchase rate from the casuals.


----------



## Spider_Man (May 19, 2020)

they do know sx dongles do not contain any software that circumvents nintendo technological protection.

it as a dongle that exploits a flaw, resellers do not supply dongles with the os software pre loaded.

the user must obtain said os/cfw themselves.

tho cfw and sx os "could be used" it also can be used without pirating, down to the user.
some may want sx os for homebrew/cheats


----------



## Hambrew (May 19, 2020)

Nintendo Switch Online Outage when?????


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 19, 2020)

Retroboy said:


> the user must obtain said os/cfw themselves.



All purchases come with an SX Pro license, which is the issue. From what I heard, it's the same for these modchips.



Retroboy said:


> some may want sx os for homebrew/cheats



Doesn't matter, SX OS still has Nintendo's code such as how XCIs are loaded.


----------



## eyeliner (May 19, 2020)

Gotta get one ASAP, then.


----------



## Switch_Maniac (May 19, 2020)

RedBlueGreen said:


> It includes SX OS which circumvents copy protection and it's entire purpose is for installing that CFW, which allows you to pirate things. So it's illegal under the DMCA. It doesn't matter that it also allows you to run homebrew, it was designed to circumvent copy protection, which it does.
> 
> It's objective fact that it violates the DMCA, and falls under what they define as a prohibited product.



Wait, Atmo isn't also CFW which also allows you to play pirated games?! I didn't know that! Thank you for clarify that only SX allows pirated games to run. I guess from Nintendo's point of view it's all about the charging people for the hack part, right? If SX was free I guess they wouldn't care.

And before you say, but "SX stole from Atmo and then charged people?. That literally has nothing at all to do with this legal action. Nintendo could give 2 shits about what pirates steal from other pirates.


----------



## xiaNaix (May 19, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> MaxConsole aka Gary OPA got into the bad business habit of selling pirated software through service and USB stick (True Blue, not the Madonna album though).
> 
> I got perm banned from maxconsole after refusing to review the True Blue and deleting my post of some software that allowed you (for pay) to illegally download copyrighted material possibly directly from Nintendo's servers.
> 
> ...



Nice revisionist history there, Dennis.  You wrote MaxConsole's review for StargateNX and then decided you wanted, in your own words, "compensation" for writing the review.  After they refused your ransom, and both Gary and I told you paying for reviews was unethical (and you had received the subscription to the service for free) you freaked out and deleted the review.  I recovered the article from Google's cache at Gary's request, not even knowing what had transpired.  As a result, you decided to punish me by filing a PayPal dispute with your bank and robbing me of the money that you paid for my son's banned Switch.  I also threw in a couple of SX Pro's, since you were helping me out by buying the banned console so I could get him a new one.  A transaction that had nothing to do with MaxConsole, Gary, or the situation.  Luckily, I didn't have any money in that PayPal account and it still sits in the negative because of your sperg out.  You also didn't seem to have any problems with "piracy" when you were receiving free product and reviewing numerous items for Gary over at MaxConsole under your numerous pseudonyms.  And, given the places you are currently hanging out, you still don't.  How's Arb, btw.


----------



## eyeliner (May 19, 2020)

Also, guys, Ninitento is not targetting TX, but the resellers, so Athmosphere is fine.


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 19, 2020)

eyeliner said:


> Also, guys, Ninitento is not targetting TX, but the resellers, so Athmosphere is fine.



Atmosphere was fine anyway because they are not charging people along with not allowing piracy out of the box. Team Xecuter is harder to get to since they are likely in a country that is hard for them to reach through the court system.


----------



## DSAndi (May 19, 2020)

Ah well, its the same old story with nintendo. Instead of suing the manufactors, they sue the small shops.
The same reason as always, device to play pirated stuff. 
I wonder where all thouse pirates come from. The mean copyed software.

The thing is, no one would copy games if they where cheap and afordable.
Nintendo sells hardware and software most of the time very expensive (cables anyone?).
They can do this and i dont need to buy it. Thats the point i dont need Nintendo stuff.

Granted im a PC player, i get cheap games on GOG.com without DRM. I get cheap games on Steam, i get free Games from Epic and other companys. I get so many games for free or cheap, i dont need to copy a game. I wont bother with it at all, because i cant even play all thouse free games. 
If i really want a new game i could go and buy it at full price, but why ? Just wait some time the price will go down.

Actually i dont miss any of Nintendos new games, i dont care about em. I dont care for the switch and the software libary on it.

I get better games , better looking and playing for free. Just this week GTA5 at Epic.

Why ppl still bother with Nintedo, a company that sells you old ROM games for much money again and again on different systems to show there costumers how they valure them?
A company that does sue small ppl selling legal devices, because they know they wont go into lawsuit and they are unable to sue the makers.
They even sell you cardboards for a lot money with questionable funny software.

Not to mention the old hardware, already outdated when it comes out new.

Really i dont really get why ppl still buy consoles and games from Nintendo. 
For the few exclusive games, that are basicly the same as always with some changes  ?

Ah well dont really matter and i dont care.  
Its up to the people who they support and if they like what Nintendo does with those legal actions agains small business ppl.
If they kill all remembering of the old games, because they still want to make profit out of them and offer no fair use on all systems once you did buy it.
Im glad im not missing Nintendo and i dont feel to buy any game or console off em.


----------



## kingaz (May 19, 2020)

JustBrandonT said:


> This is false. By-passing/Circumventions is completely legal when done correctly. IE: Blackbox by-passing is just one example.
> 
> One famous case of reverse engineering was the first non-IBM implementation of the PC BIOS which launched the historic IBM PC compatible industry that has been the overwhelmingly dominant computer hardware platform for many years. Reverse engineering of software is protected in the U.S. by the fair use exception in copyright law.[16] The Samba software, which allows systems that are not running Microsoft Windows systems to share files with systems that are, is a classic example of software reverse engineering,[17] since the Samba project had to reverse-engineer unpublished information about how Windows file sharing worked, so that non-Windows computers could emulate it. The Wine project does the same thing for the Windows API, and OpenOffice.org is one party doing this for the Microsoft Office file formats.
> 
> ...



I was speaking broadly, but yes, there are narrow exemptions like for reverse engineering. 

That being said, these exemptions do not pertain to this case.


----------



## Gerd_Mueller (May 19, 2020)

My opinion is that this is owsome. Nintendo reached out to the right people! TX is a bunch of suckers since ever, steal soft and hardware ideas and then sell them as there own. And as uber is one of the long members of TX that's only reasonable to do so.


----------



## darkriku2000 (May 19, 2020)

Curious what way this will go. Sony was never able to take action against DarkAlex, M33, Yifanlu, etc. Yet they were able to get GeoHot to back away from the PS3. Maybe Nintendo will get more success since TX is actually selling something.


----------



## Chimech0 (May 19, 2020)

8BitWonder said:


> Atmosphere does not allow you to run pirated content.
> Adding sigpatches to it, a *user* action that is outside of Atmosphere devs' control allows running pirated content.
> 
> SXOS does allow running pirated content, they package all necessary patches within their product and this is completely within their control.
> ...



Actually, the new SX Core/SX Lite and the old SX Pro Dongle per se, don't do anything.
As you say, it requires the *user* to purposely download a file, put it on a microSD card, boot the system and even then the *user* has to do additional steps in order to access pirate games.

Also, the SX Core/SX Lite doesn't have the XCI Loader everyone is talking about, that loader is on the software part on the file that the *user* has to put on the microSD, otherwise it won't do jack.


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 19, 2020)

Chimech0 said:


> Actually, the new SX Core/SX Lite and the old SX Pro Dongle per se, don't do anything.
> As you say, it requires the *user* to purposely download a file, put it on a microSD card, boot the system and even then the *user* has to do additional steps in order to access pirate games.
> 
> Also, the SX Core/SX Lite doesn't have the XCI Loader everyone is talking about, that loader is on the software part on the file that the *user* has to put on the microSD, otherwise it won't do jack.


You're absolutely correct that it doesn't include those features.
Which is why I was talking about SXOS, and not SX Core or SX Lite modchips.

SX Core and SX Lite however are not legal in the US under current DMCA laws. (Or so Nintendo will once again be pleading)


----------



## smf (May 19, 2020)

antiNT said:


> SX OS isn't copyrighted material, right ? So, there's nothing illegal in it.



Murder doesn't violate copyright either. It actually does violate copyright as the XCI loader includes copyright code from HorizonOS, but it would be illegal anyway.



XDel said:


> I'm kind of looking at it like this. First off, Piracy does not hurt the industry, so going after and ruining the lives of small guys with small businesses like TX is evil, plain and simple.



If you are going to believe that piracy doesn't hurt the industry then why not also believe that the resellers won't get hurt by nintendo suing them.

Why do you want to believe one of those things and not the other.



weatMod said:


> it's not an illegal product though



It depends on the country of course, but in the US, EU & Australia it is illegal.



Chimech0 said:


> Actually, the new SX Core/SX Lite and the old SX Pro Dongle per se, don't do anything.
> As you say, it requires the *user* to purposely download a file, put it on a microSD card, boot the system and even then the *user* has to do additional steps in order to access pirate games.
> 
> Also, the SX Core/SX Lite doesn't have the XCI Loader everyone is talking about, that loader is on the software part on the file that the *user* has to put on the microSD, otherwise it won't do jack.



When you buy a TX mod chip then it comes with the license, no court is dumb enough to accept the argument that by selling something in two parts, that the user then assembles, will get round the law.

For legal purposes, it's sold as one product so it is one product.


----------



## magico29 (May 19, 2020)

F***  updatendo.


----------



## linuxares (May 19, 2020)

Now I don't have a screenshot of the website. But how did they advertise the product? If they really posted the PR from TX. It's is very clear that it's a piracy device and not a simple tool.


----------



## Chimech0 (May 19, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Both the old variant and the new modchip come with their bootloader and SX OS.



No, they don't.


----------



## realtimesave (May 19, 2020)

xiaNaix said:


> Nice revisionist history there, Dennis.  You wrote MaxConsole's review for StargateNX and then decided you wanted, in your own words, "compensation" for writing the review.  After they refused your ransom, and both Gary and I told you paying for reviews was unethical (and you had received the subscription to the service for free) you freaked out and deleted the review.  I recovered the article from Google's cache at Gary's request, not even knowing what had transpired.  As a result, you decided to punish me by filing a PayPal dispute with your bank and robbing me of the money that you paid for my son's banned Switch.  I also threw in a couple of SX Pro's, since you were helping me out by buying the banned console so I could get him a new one.  A transaction that had nothing to do with MaxConsole, Gary, or the situation.  Luckily, I didn't have any money in that PayPal account and it still sits in the negative because of your sperg out.  You also didn't seem to have any problems with "piracy" when you were receiving free product and reviewing numerous items for Gary over at MaxConsole under your numerous pseudonyms.  And, given the places you are currently hanging out, you still don't.  How's Arb, btw.



feel free to dox me on public forum, I don’t really care. Gary decided to hide from me after all that happened and not contact me any more. What are you guys so afraid of?  Shouldn’t be me anyway.


----------



## andyhappypants (May 19, 2020)

weatMod said:


> who here is old enough to know who bung is


I got all of my bung stuff from Liksang back in the day. Awesome days of internet shopping! Had all the kits back then sadly of no use these days with the lack of parallel ports. 
Good times indeed...


----------



## realtimesave (May 19, 2020)

magico29 said:


> F***  updatendo.


Oh yea dude f** people for trying to profit in a capitalist society. Lol.  Come on.


----------



## magico29 (May 19, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> Oh yea dude f** people for trying to profit in a capitalist society. Lol.  Come on.


who cares about that? you? what are you doing in here then.


----------



## xiaNaix (May 19, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> feel free to dox me on public forum, I don’t really care. Gary decided to hide from me after all that happened and not contact me any more. What are you guys so afraid of?  Shouldn’t be me anyway.



That's between the two of you, which why I still don't understand why you insist on dragging me into it.


----------



## Tumbleweed (May 19, 2020)

It's totally understandable that Nintendo would take some kind of harsh action, when they patched the newer units they kind of "solved" the problem so I hardly imagine this would be happening if it wasn't for the upcoming mod chip which will make every console on planet hackable. 

If you think like a Nintendo company man, who have a product that sold ~55 million units and let's say it will be around for more 2 years before being updated, it would be a sizeable profit loss with upcoming products + the embarrassment of allowing this to happen and have millions of hackable consoles around.


----------



## XDel (May 19, 2020)

smf said:


> Murder doesn't violate copyright either. It actually does violate copyright as the XCI loader includes copyright code from HorizonOS, but it would be illegal anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well aside of Sega's old Dreamcast era report that stated this, and an old government article from 2008 that also reflected this, yes piracy does not kill the industry. Matter of fact many rappers like KRS-ONE who are not doing what they are doing for clout and bling, will tell you the same thing. He says that he makes little to no money off CD's but rather off his shows, and besides he says that its about getting the knowledge and wisdom out there, so bootleg all you want. 

That aside, look a how the Gay,Trans,Repressed Female agenda has absorbed Disney and everything else at this point.... 
...they are making musick, movies, video games, etc. that are trying to cram their agenda and historical revisionism into everything and its pissing off a lot of people for the fact that they are ruining and not respecting the franchises that they have hijacked as a platform. They are loosing millions of billions of dollars, and have acquired the sort of organization and power that the ex-slave of America of the nearly extinct native American have strived towards for over a hundred years, and still, despite the fact that they are burning money, they refuse to stop doing what they are doing, and they are certainly loosing more money than the piracy of their products will ever cost them.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (May 20, 2020)

Xzi said:


> The results of this will be really interesting.  IIRC a US judge recently struck down the idea that a warranty can be voided because of attempted repair/disassembly by the end user, so it _is_ legal to repair or modify devices for personal use.  I also think it'll be somewhat difficult for Nintendo to prove that the sole purpose of TX devices is piracy.  OTOH, where they might have TX backed into a corner is the OS.  If SX OS has any small bit of Horizon's code left in it, the judge may very well rule in Nintendo's favor based on that alone.


From what I understand from those data mining SX OS, apparently there's large chunks of fs (the system module that handles filesystem stuff) in it, as well as gamecard headers (which aren't a part of Horizon but are copyrighted material either way). Both are used in their XCI loading shite.

Those have been in there since 1.0, so if the OS is bundled on the device (anecdotal evidence from here seems to suggest yes?), these people are screwed.


----------



## Mrperson0 (May 20, 2020)

Chimech0 said:


> No, they don't.



Might not be in the actual modchip, but it is part of the purchase you make (at least with the regular SX Loader, assuming this will be the case with the modchip), seeing that they send you a key/download for SX OS Pro.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 20, 2020)

magico29 said:


> who cares about that? you? what are you doing in here then.


Not everyone on the temp is a self absorbed man child who just happens to pirate.


----------



## Zyvyn (May 20, 2020)

Chary said:


> View attachment 209580​
> The never-ending legal battle that sees Nintendo face off against the latest copyright circumventing piracy device continues with two brand new lawsuits. On May 15th, Nintendo filed a couple of lawsuits involving entities responsible for reselling devices used for the "sole purpose of which is to hack the Nintendo Switch video game console in order to allow people to play pirated video games." The first lawsuit is against a group of websites and their respective "John Doe" owners, for anxchip.com, axiogame.com, flashcarda.com, mod3dscards.com, nx-card.com, sxflashcard.com, txswitch.com, and usachips.com, while the second suit specifically targets Tom Dilts Jr. and their company Uberchips.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure selling modded game consoles/modding tools is only illegal in Japan.


----------



## RedBlueGreen (May 20, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> Wait, Atmo isn't also CFW which also allows you to play pirated games?! I didn't know that! Thank you for clarify that only SX allows pirated games to run. I guess from Nintendo's point of view it's all about the charging people for the hack part, right? If SX was free I guess they wouldn't care.
> 
> And before you say, but "SX stole from Atmo and then charged people?. That literally has nothing at all to do with this legal action. Nintendo could give 2 shits about what pirates steal from other pirates.


The CFW in question is SX OS, what Atmosphere lets you do is irrelevant to this lawsuit. And yes, there are CFWs that don't allow piracy, but if you can install unsigned packages, odds are it's circumventing copy protection, thus violating the DMCA.

Again, I have no issue with these products and don't think they should be illegal any more than cable splitters and blank writable discs, I think it's on the end user whether they use it to pirate. But the fact of the matter is it's illegal because it violates the DMCA and falls under their prohibited (read: illegal) product classification. This isn't a matter of opinion (I'm pro CFW, I think it's the users using it to pirate who are at fault), it's objective fact that it is illegal, and that's what they're suing over.

There were cases in Europe of Nintendo suing individual users in the Wii modding days, and they lost because Nintendo couldn't prove that they were pirating anything (my guess is said countries didn't have laws against circumventing copy protection unless it's to pirate).

Nintendo isn't going after Atmosphere (yet). I doubt they will, because unless it circumvents copy protection, they won't really have a case (I mean, it's up to the jury or judge, but Atmosphere if it doesn't come with sigpatches or game cart emulation would be legal as long as there's no copyrighted material being included).



Zyvyn said:


> I'm pretty sure selling modded game consoles/modding tools is only illegal in Japan.


If it circumvents copy protection it's illegal in the US as well.


----------



## Switch_Maniac (May 20, 2020)

RedBlueGreen said:


> The CFW in question is SX OS, what Atmosphere lets you do is irrelevant to this lawsuit. And yes, there are CFWs that don't allow piracy, but if you can install unsigned packages, odds are it's circumventing copy protection, thus violating the DMCA.
> 
> Again, I have no issue with these products and don't think they should be illegal any more than cable splitters and blank writable discs, I think it's on the end user whether they use it to pirate. But the fact of the matter is it's illegal because it violates the DMCA and falls under their prohibited (read: illegal) product classification. This isn't a matter of opinion (I'm pro CFW, I think it's the users using it to pirate who are at fault), it's objective fact that it is illegal, and that's what they're suing over.
> 
> ...



Shop wasn't selling SX OS. It was selling a mod chip that will also be able to run atmosphere from the claims of TX and with patches and can do the same thing as SXO after a user gets the files. If you choose to go to the internet and download the boot.dat file that's on you, just like if you choose to get the patches..... the lawsuits came about because of the sale of the chip if you actually read through the documents. None of the orders were for SXOS.


----------



## Sintrial09 (May 20, 2020)

TX did nothing wrong, These sellers did nothing wrong.


----------



## realtimesave (May 20, 2020)

magico29 said:


> who cares about that? you? what are you doing in here then.



lmfao you are totally clueless.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



xiaNaix said:


> That's between the two of you, which why I still don't understand why you insist on dragging me into it.


Ok I won’t

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Memoir said:


> Not everyone on the temp is a self absorbed man child who just happens to pirate.


Who said I don’t pirate and *chuckle* man child... lol

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sintrial09 said:


> TX did nothing wrong, These sellers did nothing wrong.


This is the biggest crock of shit I’ve seen in this entire

/thread


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 20, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> lmfao you are totally clueless.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I pirate, too. I just don't think it overrides morality under an obscure justification.


----------



## realtimesave (May 20, 2020)

I'll say again:

/thread


----------



## the_randomizer (May 20, 2020)

*Waits for a permanent softmod*


----------



## realtimesave (May 20, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> *Waits for a permanent softmod*



I'm good with sx pro for now.  Moving on to PS5 when it gets released, rumor is that FFVII is going to be ported to it so I'll buy that (oh heaven forbid me buying games *hides stack of legit Nintendo Switch games that are in my closet*)


----------



## Legend Of Kay (May 20, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> I'm good with sx pro for now.  Moving on to PS5 when it gets released, rumor is that FFVII is going to be ported to it so I'll buy that (oh heaven forbid me buying games *hides stack of legit Nintendo Switch games that are in my closet*)


Surely ff7r will work right away on the ps5, right?


----------



## realtimesave (May 20, 2020)

Gary I know you are reading this thread but no ill will toward you 

Also, xaiNiax why aren't you on skype? past your bed time?


----------



## tivu100 (May 20, 2020)

Tatsuna said:


> Yeah, yeah.
> Let's take one case and make it real for everything and everyone.
> This, this and this. Enjoy.


Just as I thought. You read but don't think.

Look at your your so called studies. Where are studies specified for games? Gaming on console is very different from other media form. Not every piracy is the same.

Streaming movie, TV show, music you can move your account to new devices. The contents is the same. In long run pirate would purchase these content when these would be offered for dirt cheap, or via some kind of subscription. The

Gaming console has life cycle. New console would need upgrade to meet demand of improved graphic, improved gaming experience... Old game most of the time ain't compatible on new console in its original format. Letting piracy run wild, then game studios can't make money. No fund to continue on new console.


----------



## nintenbrolluseless (May 20, 2020)

Is there anywhere where we can grab the SX Core/Lite in the US right now?


----------



## linuxares (May 20, 2020)

nintenbrolluseless said:


> Is there anywhere where we can grab the SX Core/Lite in the US right now?


I really recommend you wait. No need to pre-order it. Wait until it's done.


----------



## nintenbrolluseless (May 20, 2020)

linuxares said:


> I really recommend you wait. No need to pre-order it. Wait until it's done.


Makes sense. When do they actually go on sale anyways?


----------



## linuxares (May 20, 2020)

nintenbrolluseless said:


> Makes sense. When do they actually go on sale anyways?


No idea to be honest. Pre-orders are a norm today. Always good to get extra cash I guess?


----------



## Seraphic (May 20, 2020)

In light of this news, I think I better pick up a SX ASAP. Have a launch edition Switch on FW 2.0 with the microSDXC update and I take it I want the Pro and not the Lite/Core version, correct? Thanks


----------



## nintenbrolluseless (May 20, 2020)

Seraphic said:


> In light of this news, I think I better pick up a SX ASAP.
> Have a launch edition Switch on FW 2.0 and I take it I want the Pro and not the Lite/Core version, correct?
> Thanks


Depends. The Pro isn't a modchip, its an SX OS dongle. If you're taking that route I recommend using Atmosphere CFW with an RCMLoader OneB dongle. If you want a modchip, get the SX Core.


----------



## Seraphic (May 20, 2020)

nintenbrolluseless said:


> Depends. The Pro isn't a modchip, its an SX OS dongle. If you're taking that route I recommend using Atmosphere CFW with an RCMLoader OneB dongle. If you want a modchip, get the SX Core.



Actually not sure what I want, lol. Have not followed the scene, what's the latest and greatest option?
Purchased the Switch Day1, updated to 2.0 with the microSDXC update , downloaded a game demo and then put back into the box.


----------



## nintenbrolluseless (May 20, 2020)

Seraphic said:


> Actually not sure what I want, lol. Have not followed the scene, what's the latest and greatest option?
> Purchased the Switch Day1, updated to 2.0 with the microSDXC update , downloaded a game demo and then put back into the box.


As of now, I'm using the RCMLoader OneB, it's pretty convenient, I'm happy with it. All I have to do is slot the RCM jig that comes with it into the right Joy-Con rail, boot RCM, and plug in the dongle. Also, I'm not absolutely sure so don't take my word for it and do some research, but I believe you're free to update to the latest firmware with no losses.


----------



## SoulOfGazza (May 20, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> Gary I know you are reading this thread but no ill will toward you



When you read this one Bowser ask your boss max to post some photos of the TX production & packing line of this now defunct product
I bet you don't
and we know why you won't don;t we 
Come on big boy Bowser let's see you disprove the fact of having the factory injuncted
I believe the programmers are due to be served sometime this week as well 

Bet Max is sooo glad he ripped me off 

Remember kids if you have preordered this item do a chargeback now while you can it's the only way you will recover funds as you wll NOT ever be seeing this product


----------



## skinnyBIGGS (May 20, 2020)

Chary said:


> View attachment 209580​
> The never-ending legal battle that sees Nintendo face off against the latest copyright circumventing piracy device continues with two brand new lawsuits. On May 15th, Nintendo filed a couple of lawsuits involving entities responsible for reselling devices used for the "sole purpose of which is to hack the Nintendo Switch video game console in order to allow people to play pirated video games." The first lawsuit is against a group of websites and their respective "John Doe" owners, for anxchip.com, axiogame.com, flashcarda.com, mod3dscards.com, nx-card.com, sxflashcard.com, txswitch.com, and usachips.com, while the second suit specifically targets Tom Dilts Jr. and their company Uberchips.
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck


Ericzander said:


> Don't mind me, I'm just here to read all the comments by armchair lawyers talking vaguely about how evil Nintendo is and how the fact that Team Xecuter's SX allows you to do homebrew stuff in addition to pirating games makes them 100% in the clear.


Ohh theres always one of you around take her pompus head and shove it up ur arse... when we purchase a console we have everyright to do with it as we please... shit theyre just being greedy fucks 100$ for a fucking joycon that drifts in a matter of weeks.. no compensation  no new design they know its fsulty no recall just keep pumping out that shit design ohh and they made a newer console WITH THE EXACT SAME FLAW ONLY THIS TIME THERE  NOT DETACHABLE.. take your nintendo cheerleading a d SHOVE IT!!!!!! NINTENDO HAS SOLD 33million consoles prolly 3x that for joycons that are faulty... and no i dont mash my controller only people who claim it hasnt happened dont game long enough or have girl size hands maybe dont register and be a reviewer for a site that shares modding tips to circumvent  devices..... hows nintendo taste!!!


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## Scarlet (May 20, 2020)

skinnyBIGGS said:


> Fuck
> 
> Ohh theres always one of you around take her pompus head and shove it up ur arse... when we purchase a console we have everyright to do with it as we please... shit theyre just being greedy fucks 100$ for a fucking joycon that drifts in a matter of weeks.. no compensation  no new design they know its fsulty no recall just keep pumping out that shit design ohh and they made a newer console WITH THE EXACT SAME FLAW ONLY THIS TIME THERE  NOT DETACHABLE.. take your nintendo cheerleading a d SHOVE IT!!!!!! NINTENDO HAS SOLD 33million consoles prolly 3x that for joycons that are faulty... and no i dont mash my controller only people who claim it hasnt happened dont game long enough or have girl size hands maybe dont register and be a reviewer for a site that shares modding tips to circumvent  devices..... hows nintendo taste!!!


God you make so many well-articulated and original points. Idk about you guys but my opinion has changed. Godspeed friend, godspeed.


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## Deleted User (May 20, 2020)

uh ... i never had that drift problem and i m gaming the hell out of my switch(es) :x i dont have girl sized hands i guess... oh well..
nintendo just tries to protect their copyrighted material and ip.. so i can understand it.


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## Pippin666 (May 20, 2020)

*GO FOR IT NINTENDO ! *

Pip'


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## Zaiphon (May 20, 2020)

Love it!
Finally got what they deserve.


----------



## Switch_Maniac (May 20, 2020)

Zaiphon said:


> Love it!
> Finally got what they deserve.



Who did? They aren't going after TX and the chips will for sure be available from other sellers


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## Zaiphon (May 20, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> Who did? They aren't going after TX and the chips will for sure be available from other sellers


"Who did?" TX of cause. Yeah Chips may get sold, but who will keep updating it?


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## Switch_Maniac (May 20, 2020)

Zaiphon said:


> "Who did?" TX of cause. Yeah Chips may get sold, but who will keep updating it?



I'm not following. So the resellers are also the ones developing and updating SX? Not really making much sense here. These lawsuits only involve resellers who sell mod chips among other things. They have nothing to do with SX development....Just another hater who has no idea what they are even saying. Try reading the lawsuits maybe if it's not to hard for you.


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## Deleted User (May 20, 2020)

I'm curious - why can't Nintendo go after TX? If it's because of anonymity/different country, surely Nintendo has enough money to find a workaround?


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## Switch_Maniac (May 20, 2020)

blissbeef said:


> I'm curious - why can't Nintendo go after TX? If it's because of anonymity/different country, surely Nintendo has enough money to find a workaround?



Depends on the country. Extradition isn't a policy everywhere among other laws in said countries. So it might not be worth the money. They'll just keep going after resellers. If they could have gone after TX directly, I would imagine they would have by now and that Microsoft would have back in the xbox/360 days.


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## Deleted User (May 20, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> Depends on the country. Extradition isn't a policy everywhere among other laws in said countries. So it might not be worth the money. They'll just keep going after resellers. If they could have gone after TX directly, I would imagine they would have by now and that Microsoft would have back in the xbox/360 days.



Makes sense, but resellers will just keep popping up and it'll be very time consuming for Nintendo to go after them all. Nintendo probably has infinite money so the costs aren't an issue to them.


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## the_randomizer (May 20, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> I'm good with sx pro for now.  Moving on to PS5 when it gets released, rumor is that FFVII is going to be ported to it so I'll buy that (oh heaven forbid me buying games *hides stack of legit Nintendo Switch games that are in my closet*)



Switch will never have permanent  softmods anyway


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## Switch_Maniac (May 20, 2020)

blissbeef said:


> Makes sense, but resellers will just keep popping up and it'll be very time consuming for Nintendo to go after them all. Nintendo probably has infinite money so the costs aren't an issue to them.



Agreed. So I am assuming money isn't the issue then since the original hack came out, what 3 years ago now, and TX is still around. Time will tell I guess, but I imagine if they have enough info to go after resellers like this, they have all the info they need for TX directly.


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## realtimesave (May 20, 2020)

TX isn't going to die out, trust me on this. Just a minor hindrance is all.


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## magico29 (May 20, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> lmfao you are totally clueless.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Yes i am sometimes.Thank you!!


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## Goku1992A (May 20, 2020)

I just want to start on my Atomic Purple Switch Lite with the modchip inside with dualboot that's going to look so sweet I'll get a guy to do the housing and the modchip it's a shame Nintendo cant make nice things and you have to get things modded to achieve greatness I want mines to look like the swich lite below.


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## chrisrlink (May 20, 2020)

wierd that your getting refunded i thought i read Nintendo was trying to freeze and collect assets from sales meaning no body should be getting refunded


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## Steinyamite (May 20, 2020)

NoNAND said:


> I can see where this is going
> Hopefully they won't sue the atmosphere cfw makers..


I do not think they will sue atmosphere devs because they are not selling or pirating anything. They just create CFW, no dongles or even tutorials about how to homebrew the switch. So there is not anything to go after them for currently and I do not see that happening in the future. SX OS is selling devices and making money on a fault of nintendo's hardware and that is where the lawsuit comes in.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Goku1992A said:


> I just want to start on my Atomic Purple Switch Lite with the modchip inside with dualboot that's going to look so sweet I'll get a guy to do the housing and the modchip it's a shame Nintendo cant make nice things and you have to get things modded to achieve greatness I want mines to look like the swich lite below.
> 
> View attachment 209777


Who are you having install the modchip I would love to know!


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## Goku1992A (May 20, 2020)

Steinyamite said:


> Who are you having install the modchip I would love to know!



I know a guy in California that does housings and mod chips he can get it done. All I need to do is send the mod-chip and housing with my switch lite and he will do it for $80


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## Dvdxploitr (May 20, 2020)

I can understand them going after ROM sites because they were distributing games that they owned (even if they weren't making money off them any more).  But the TX device doesn't include any Nintendo code.  It's a device designed for users to run home brew apps and games....yes, it does also allow for piracy, but not everyone that uses it will be using it for piracy. (although I am sure more than 50% of users will be using it for piracy...but it's up to the user on how they want to use it...).  Anyone remember the beginning days of PS3 hacking?  It was SOLELY designed for home brew.  The teams were making it to NOT play pirated games, but of course, that ended up happening anyway.


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## Mrperson0 (May 20, 2020)

Dvdxploitr said:


> The teams were making it to NOT play pirated games, but of course, that ended up happening anyway.



Team Xecuter advertised their device as a way to play pirated games when it came out at first, especially when there was no way for normal users to create backups at the time.

Also, their OS, which is sold alongside the device, contains Nintendo's code to run XCI files.


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## nintenbrolluseless (May 20, 2020)

"sole purpose of which is to hack the Nintendo Switch video game console in order to allow people to play pirated video games."

That's just incorrect... It's like saying that emulators are for the sole purpose of playing pirated games.


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## Switch_Maniac (May 21, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Team Xecuter advertised their device as a way to play pirated games when it came out at first, especially when there was no way for normal users to create backups at the time.
> 
> Also, their OS, which is sold alongside the device, contains Nintendo's code to run XCI files.



You need to actually download the boot.dat to even boot SX OS and you have activate the license to use XCI loading. You could choose not to activate the license and only run homebrew just like Atmo. So actually it comes with no software to pirate anything. From what you are saying if it only supported running atmo it would be ok?


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## Mrperson0 (May 21, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> You could choose not to activate the license and only run homebrew just like Atmo. So actually it comes with no software to pirate anything.



Just because you choose to not activate the XCI features doesn't mean the code to use XCIs isn't still there.



Switch_Maniac said:


> From what you are saying if it only supported running atmo it would be ok?



As long as Team Xecuter doesn't tell you to use SX OS, then you technically should be okay. However, I'm pretty sure that they tell all buyers to use it, just like how they were forced to back when it was first released.


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## weatMod (May 21, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Just because you choose to not activate the XCI features doesn't mean the code to use XCIs isn't still there.
> 
> 
> 
> As long as Team Xecuter doesn't tell you to use SX OS, then you technically should be okay. However, I'm pretty sure that they tell all buyers to use it, just like how they were forced to back when it was first released.


so if they decouple the chip from the licence then...


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## BenRocha (May 21, 2020)

Hi y'all,

I am in USA.  Where can I buy R4i flash carts for my sons' DSi with version 1.4.1?   Their old acekard 2i are no longer working.   Please help.  I am having a really hard time finding good online stores that can sell and ship to US customers.   Will they just sell blank R4i cards and I still need to look for the kernel/firmware?  Sorry, I am  a newbie here and do not know about about games/consoles.  thanks


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## Legend Of Kay (May 21, 2020)

Zaiphon said:


> Love it!
> Finally got what they deserve.


Hahahahahahhaha


Zaiphon said:


> "Who did?" TX of cause. Yeah Chips may get sold, but who will keep updating it?


oh wait. You’re serious. Let me laugh even harder

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Coming into a thread acting like you know anything, bragging about someone getting their apparently “deserved” comeuppance and making a total fool of yourself. Lmao.


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## smf (May 21, 2020)

Zyvyn said:


> I'm pretty sure selling modded game consoles/modding tools is only illegal in Japan.



104 countries signed up to the 1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyright_Treaty which makes it illegal to sell a product which can bypass DRM.

https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ShowResults.jsp?lang=en&treaty_id=16



blissbeef said:


> I'm curious - why can't Nintendo go after TX? If it's because of anonymity/different country, surely Nintendo has enough money to find a workaround?



Resellers are far easier to find and pursue in court. A few thousand dollars out of a standard legal office and they can set an example to others that might resell.

It would be harder to shut down distributors and factories further up the chain and actually trying to identify the engineers and people at the top would be practically impossible.

Whether Nintendo have enough money or not, they aren't the world police & it's unlikely that they'd get as good a return on their investment going after the resellers in any case.


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## MySwitchLite2020 (May 21, 2020)

anyone know why TX prefer hardmod??


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## banjo2 (May 21, 2020)

BenRocha said:


> Hi y'all,
> 
> I am in USA.  Where can I buy R4i flash carts for my sons' DSi with version 1.4.1?   Their old acekard 2i are no longer working.   Please help.  I am having a really hard time finding good online stores that can sell and ship to US customers.   Will they just sell blank R4i cards and I still need to look for the kernel/firmware?  Sorry, I am  a newbie here and do not know about about games/consoles.  thanks


Maybe try asking here?


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## Fred Molyneux (May 21, 2020)

MySwitchLite2020 said:


> anyone know why TX prefer hardmod??


They don't prefer hard mods. In fact, their sales will be lower with such device than with SX Pro which is very simple to use and for anyone. Now we talk about a product for real geeks.
But this is the only solution they found. And most likely no one else will find another. So it is either that or nothing.


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## Goku1992A (May 21, 2020)

Fred Molyneux said:


> They don't prefer hard mods. In fact, their sales will be lower with such device than with SX Pro which is very simple to use and for anyone. Now we talk about a product for real geeks.
> But this is the only solution they found. And most likely no one else will find another. So it is either that or nothing.



More than likely the majority is going to take it to a guy to get it done for a fee. I have zero soldering skills whatsoever so I'm just going to take it to a guy and do mines. The modchips are also a good thing because you dont have to limit yourself to an older console. It's probably best to buy the lite new in the box and get the installation done without coming hard out of pocket. 

Downside about the modchip is that you void your waranty but on the flip side for the unpatched units you had no warranty to begin with since it's old.


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## Switch_Maniac (May 21, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Just because you choose to not activate the XCI features doesn't mean the code to use XCIs isn't still there.
> 
> 
> 
> As long as Team Xecuter doesn't tell you to use SX OS, then you technically should be okay. However, I'm pretty sure that they tell all buyers to use it, just like how they were forced to back when it was first released.



So I'll say it again. The chip itself does not come with SXOS on it. Neither does SX Pro or SX Gear. You have to go to the website and download the boot.dat or payload file. So the chip is just a chip. Telling you to use SX means absolutely nothing and if they said to use Atmo it would be fine? I'm not following your logic here.


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## Mrperson0 (May 21, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> Telling you to use SX means absolutely nothing and if they said to use Atmo it would be fine? I'm not following your logic here.



The logic is that your purchase includes an SX Pro license, which is to use their OS, which contains Nintendo's code. You are not solely buying a modchip (or payload + rcm jig for the initial variant). If they never sold a license, this likely wouldn't be as big of an issue.


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## Switch_Maniac (May 21, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> The logic is that your purchase includes an SX Pro license, which is to use their OS, which contains Nintendo's code. You are not solely buying a modchip (or payload + rcm jig for the initial variant). If they never sold a license, this likely wouldn't be as big of an issue.



So why is the Sx Gear treated the same then? It does not come with a license.


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## Mrperson0 (May 21, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> So why is the Sx Gear treated the same then? It does not come with a license.



In that case, if this were to actually go to court, it likely wouldn't hold up. Nonetheless, I looked through both preliminary statements, and I do not see a mention of the SX Gear at all.That document always makes sure to mention circumvention devices *and* SX OS from what I see.


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## Switch_Maniac (May 21, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> In that case, if this were to actually go to court, it likely wouldn't hold up. Nonetheless, I looked through both preliminary statements, and I do not see a mention of the SX Gear at all.That document always makes sure to mention circumvention devices *and* SX OS from what I see.



Right, SX gear was an example of a device that does the same exact thing. Circumventing Nintendo's protections. They also don't mention SX Pro specifically if I remember correctly. Which is the exact same as the chip, but external. So the point I'm making is that without the boot.dat or some type of payload, these devices don't do anything.


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## Mrperson0 (May 21, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> Right, SX gear was an example of a device that does the same exact thing. Circumventing Nintendo's protections. They also don't mention SX Pro specifically if I remember correctly. Which is the exact same as the chip, but external. So the point I'm making is that without the boot.dat or some type of payload, these devices don't do anything.



So this discussion has been pointless, seeing that in both statements, Nintendo has always referred to SX OS, and not solely the devices. The main thing is an SX OS license is always sold with these devices.


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## medoli900 (May 21, 2020)

Tatsuna said:


> Yeah, yeah.
> Let's take one case and make it real for everything and everyone.
> This, this and this. Enjoy.


Thank you for more article that strengthen my argument. Don't know why your pissy about it though. It was the only article I knew on the subject, no need to be aggressive.


tivu100 said:


> Just as I thought. You read but don't think.
> 
> Look at your your so called studies. Where are studies specified for games? Gaming on console is very different from other media form. Not every piracy is the same.
> 
> ...


You're bashing on peer reviewed article, but uh... Where are _your_ proof. You can spout anything you want from your mouth, but without proof, it means absolutely nothing.


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## Switch_Maniac (May 21, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> So this discussion has been pointless, seeing that in both statements, Nintendo has always referred to SX OS, and not solely the devices. The main thing is an SX OS license is always sold with these devices.



I guess it was pointless because they don't specify anything about it coming with a license. Only SXOS cfw. So I don't get your point. You can't use SX without the boot file, which doesn't come with any of the devices.


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## Mrperson0 (May 21, 2020)

Switch_Maniac said:


> You can't use SX without the boot file, which doesn't come with any of the devices.



The point you keep on ignoring is, at the point of sale, they give you a license for SX OS as well. If resellers were only selling the modchip on its own, Nintendo wouldn't have a case.


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## realtimesave (May 21, 2020)

Everyone needs hugs <3 <3 <3


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## tivu100 (May 22, 2020)

medoli900 said:


> Thank you for more article that strengthen my argument. Don't know why your pissy about it though. It was the only article I knew on the subject, no need to be aggressive.
> 
> You're bashing on peer reviewed article, but uh... Where are _your_ proof. You can spout anything you want from your mouth, but without proof, it means absolutely nothing.


Dude. In this age of time, we still do the quote a bible kind of method? We're not paid to do research. You're free to Google research done by researchers.

Anyways, for those who recycled the EU study, you would have known this famous Google funded research soon afterward.

https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/documents/USPTO-Piracy Landscape-03-20-2020nr.pdf
https://torrentfreak.com/images/global-online-piracy.pdf

Did you people fail to understand all these recent trade war, with intellectual property patents, trademarks, copyright infringement are the main talking point?

These study was summarized in my previous post. Each industry got different impacted by piracy. Now what you can see with your own eyes (the ultimate proof). Since the Google funded study, the music industry in particular had shift their approach. They know physical media format would suffer. Many artists stream their own content for free on Youtube to promote their product, and earn those the small income from Youtube. Incentives promotion to boost sale for music streaming service. Demography of paid consumers is not surprising at all, adult in good income countries with income! It's understandable that the industry pay less attention in less developed countries since they don't make much revenue there.

However, if one generalizes every industry, then you're missing the point by mile. Music industry is robust with much more content release, easier to adapt to new approach, and having shelf life. Box office depends heavily on initial tickets sale. If you're Okay with producers waiting for years to film a new movie after they get even with their investment, then it's only way piracy can work. Gaming is similar. Smaller studio would went bankruptcy before sale evens out. They don't have money for their next project if their game ain't a hit. Promotion wise, big bad corporation would play it safe and promote their love child franchises. The majority of game consumers are younger people. So their budget is small, so after the promoted franchises get their part of the cake, there is little left for smaller studios, start up. Let piracy roam free, then the first to suffer is these small guys. Ironically, many of the same pirates would start complaining about not having enough good games and pricing. Games getting butchered with paid addons. The reality is looking back at you.


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## medoli900 (May 22, 2020)

tivu100 said:


> Dude. In this age of time, we still do the quote a bible kind of method? We're not paid to do research. You're free to Google research done by researchers.
> 
> Anyways, for those who recycled the EU study, you would have known this famous Google funded research soon afterward.
> 
> ...


Wait, are you defending or against piracy. Your statements are very confusing. All those article that we posted are against piracy, why are you even opposing us if you are also against piracy?


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## tivu100 (May 22, 2020)

medoli900 said:


> Wait, are you defending or against piracy. Your statements are very confusing. All those article that we posted are against piracy, why are you even opposing us if you are also against piracy?


Feel like you're confusing me to the one who jumping in going gung-ho about piracy boost sale.

Read my post, and you can tell. I did my part explaining why anyone who read but don't think can be tricked into thinking piracy has no harm on sale. Music industry can play around, however it's not the same with gaming and box office.


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## yoyoyo69 (May 22, 2020)

SuperDan said:


> "Anyways I would find them and deal with them...  One way or another..



Lol, we got a gangster here


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## SoulOfGazza (May 22, 2020)

Another day still radio silence from Max and his shill Bowser
I believe we and the world are awaiting for pics of the production and packing line of these goods.
Come on Bowser you are always quick to get your selling posts up why so quiet now I know you have been on here and reading posts.

Still waiting for you to disprove the factory got served with injunctions and I believe Max got one on his nice island home this morning

Told you Max you would regret ripping me off


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## Chimech0 (May 22, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> The point you keep on ignoring is, at the point of sale, they give you a license for SX OS as well. If resellers were only selling the modchip on its own, Nintendo wouldn't have a case.



If I sell you a PC with a free Windows License (but don't include the CD/DVD/USB installer), you still have the choice as an user to use any other OS you want, for instance, you can use any Linux distro and never install Windows on that PC. It's your choice. And if you want to use Windows, you have to actually download it, install it and use it.

My point being that even if it comes with a license, the user STILL has to download the boot.dat and even then, to play pirate games the user has to download them and install them.


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## Mrperson0 (May 23, 2020)

Chimech0 said:


> If I sell you a PC with a free Windows License (but don't include the CD/DVD/USB installer), you still have the choice as an user to use any other OS you want, for instance, you can use any Linux distro and never install Windows on that PC. It's your choice. And if you want to use Windows, you have to actually download it, install it and use it.



Not a fair comparison seeing that the Windows License is actually an official OEM one (most likely). A better comparison would be if they sell you a PC with a modded Windows license that gave you the ability to install other programs (such as Office) for free, which simply wouldn't fly with Microsoft.

And my point is, Team Xecuter is still selling a modded version of Nintendo's OS, which is why Nintendo constantly mentions SX OS in the documents. If they didn't sell the license, then Nintendo really wouldn't have a case.


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## MrPeach2 (May 23, 2020)

mrgone said:


> who is old enough in here to know who liksang was?


I bought a ton of stuff from Lik Sang!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Bladexdsl said:


> fucking nintendo at it again. first it was fan made games than it was rom sites because they want you to pay $20/y to access 4 shitty OLD games each month and never release ANYTHING actual good instead of providing an actual VC. and now it's the actual chip sites... what will they try to shut down next? places that do repairs on their shitty under-powered consoles because people don't want to mail their shit to nintendo HQ where they sneakretly install the latest updates for you?!
> 
> NINTENDO


"places that do repairs on their shitty under-powered consoles"
You haven't been following the whole "right to repair" issue, I guess.


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## Legend Of Kay (May 24, 2020)

SoulOfGazza said:


> Another day still radio silence from Max and his shill Bowser
> I believe we and the world are awaiting for pics of the production and packing line of these goods.
> Come on Bowser you are always quick to get your selling posts up why so quiet now I know you have been on here and reading posts.
> 
> ...


Oh god.. the cringe.. it’s almost... unbearable


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## realtimesave (May 24, 2020)

All I know is Gary oPa needs our <3 and hugs and nice things.


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## aarti (May 24, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> All I know is Gary oPa needs our <3 and hugs and nice things.


are you a troll


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## urbanman2004 (May 24, 2020)

So let me get this straight, Ninty is suing guys who sell mod chips in the US?


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## realtimesave (May 24, 2020)

aarti said:


> are you a troll


hey whyyy what do you mean?


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## Mrperson0 (May 24, 2020)

urbanman2004 said:


> So let me get this straight, Ninty is suing guys who sell mod chips in the US?



Nah, they are suing people who are selling modchips and an OS that contains Nintendo's code to run pirated software. Note that Nintendo lists the issue as SX OS in both documents.


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## weatMod (May 24, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Nah, they are suing people who are selling modchips and an OS that contains Nintendo's code to run pirated software. Note that Nintendo lists the issue as SX OS in both documents.


does Doug pay you by the word or by the post?


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## Mrperson0 (May 24, 2020)

weatMod said:


> does Doug pay you by the word or by the post?



Is it wrong to point out facts when groups/companies are outright for piracy, especially when users try to defend it?


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## urbanman2004 (May 25, 2020)

Mrperson0 said:


> Nah, they are suing people who are selling modchips and an OS that contains Nintendo's code to run pirated software. Note that Nintendo lists the issue as SX OS in both documents.


Ok, just making sure. If only they had sold the software separately, lol


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## realtimesave (Oct 3, 2020)

realtimesave said:


> MaxConsole aka Gary OPA got into the bad business habit of selling pirated software through service and USB stick (True Blue, not the Madonna album though).
> 
> I got perm banned from maxconsole after refusing to review the True Blue and deleting my post of some software that allowed you (for pay) to illegally download copyrighted material possibly directly from Nintendo's servers.
> 
> ...



...... I had a feeling that this would happen.  Let's pray for the Gary Berry Gary OPA and let him have a safe journey back to his home in the Dominican.


----------

