# Workers in Chinese Apple Factories Forced to Not Kill Selves



## Nathan Drake (May 16, 2011)

Factories making sought-after Apple iPads and iPhones in China are forcing staff to sign pledges not to commit suicide, an investigation has revealed.

At least 14 workers at Foxconn factories in China have killed themselves in the last 16 months as a result of horrendous working conditions.

Many more are believed to have either survived attempts or been stopped before trying at the Apple supplier's plants in Chengdu or Shenzen.

After a spate of suicides last year, managers at the factories ordered new staff to sign pledges that they would not attempt to kill themselves, according to researchers.

And they were made to promise that if they did, their families would only seek the legal minimum in damages.

An investigation of the 500,000 workers by the Centre for Research on Multinational Companies and Students & Scholars Against Corporate Misbehaviour (Sacom) found appalling conditions in the factories.

They claimed that:

Excessive overtime was rife, despite a legal limit of 36 hours a month. One payslip showed a worker did 98 hours of overtime in one month, the Observer reported.
During peak periods of demand for the iPad, workers were made to take only one day off in 13.
Badly performing workers were humiliated in front of colleagues.
Workers are banned from talking and are made to stand up for their 12-hour shifts.
[/p]




Soruce

I'm sure those iPads are totally worth it.


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## m3rox (May 16, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

> I'm sure those iPads are totally worth it.



No, but the iPhones/iPod touch's are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (seriously, they're awesome)

Sucks the dudes can't kill themselves, they'll probably get fired if they do.


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## Raika (May 16, 2011)

This is pretty ridiculous. Instead of doing this sort of shit, maybe the factories could at least _try_ to improve the working conditions?

Morons.


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## CarbonX13 (May 16, 2011)

And I guess the worst part about this is that the factories _can_ improve the working conditions of their employees. They're making all the electronic devices that are pushed out from Sony, Apple, Nintendo, Microsoft, and much more. I highly doubt they don't have enough money to at least give their workers some attention to their working conditions.


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## Lucifer666 (May 16, 2011)

Raika said:
			
		

> This is pretty ridiculous. Instead of doing this sort of shit, maybe the factories could at least _try_ to improve the working conditions?
> 
> Morons.



+1


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## Dangy (May 16, 2011)

Wow, this is a grave situation.


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## Uzumakijl (May 16, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> [...]
> Sucks the dudes can't kill themselves, they'll probably get fired if they do.



What the fuck i did just read


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## Schlupi (May 16, 2011)

Ugh... I know they aren't the only ones, but...


YET ANOOOOOTHER THING TO HATE ABOUT APPLE'S BUSINESS PRACTICE. I hate everything about them.

Just wait until the Humancentipad comes out...






WHY. WON'T. IT. READ?!?!?


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## Snailface (May 16, 2011)

I wonder what consequences workers face if they do not follow this policy? 
Overheard at FoxConn:
Time to give that disrespectful corpse a write-up! Drag him in here!


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## Rock Raiyu (May 16, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> Sucks the dudes can't kill themselves, they'll probably get fired if they do.


Um...what?

What's the point in getting fired if they are already dead?


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## GreatZimkogway (May 16, 2011)

m3rox said:
			
		

> Nathan Drake said:
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I seriously hope you're joking.  I also wonder if you read the topic at all. And no, iPhones/iPods are FAR from worth it.  For one thing, there are cheaper, better alternatives.  But this isn't an iBash topic.  NOTHING is worth something like this.  

I'm only surprised that some corporations in the US haven't tried doing this yet.  Talk about kicking you when you're down.


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## donelwero (May 16, 2011)

Isn't that something REALLY personal? Like it is my OWN choice to keep living or not? 

That's why Apple sucks.


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## Snailface (May 16, 2011)

Rock Raiyu said:
			
		

> m3rox said:
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I used to work at Wal-mart. It's company policy there to file a termination paper (green sheet) even if an 'associate' dies.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



To be fair, I'm sure this is common practice in any business, but still . . . it's a little creepy.


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## GreatZimkogway (May 16, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> Rock Raiyu said:
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Well of course they do.  They can't just keep a random person still on their payroll, even if he's dead.  That's kind of obvious...logic, even.  Otherwise shenanigans can happen.


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## KingAsix (May 16, 2011)

This is a fucking shame....I can't wait to get rid of my iphone....I refuse to support a company that does this to its worker. I know just me saying/doing this means nothing, but unless this policy goes away or they do something about their working conditions I refuse to support Apple.


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## ShinyLatios (May 16, 2011)

ummm, the workers can still kill each other?

this is pretty damn ridiculous. an agreement to not suicide? really?


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## dragonkid6 (May 16, 2011)

Has anyone seen the movie Buried???


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## doyama (May 16, 2011)

You guys need to step back and think about the WHY instead of simply reacting to the information.

1) As has been pointed out repeatedly suicide rates at the factory were pretty much in line with average in China. The rates are not in any way anomalous when taken in aggregate.
2) Foxconn is one of THE BEST employers in China for unskilled labor. It is the kind of job people are lining up for. They actually charge the LEGAL wage required and pay overtime. Note literally no other company does this in China. In Foxconn people WANT to work overtime because they get paid for it. At other companies they are FORCED to work with no pay on top of being paid less than the minimum wage required by law. 
3) Many employess were using the suicide clause as a way to pay off debts. Foxconn, again being a 'nice' company compared to others, paid a small stipend to families of employess that committed suicide. Almost all non skilled workers are migrants that are sending money back to their families in destitute villages. If they needed a big lump sum of money for medical, education or other expenses, then suicide looks like an appealing choice. Especially since the company you work for IS ACTUALLY GOING TO PAY. Note that this is the exception. Thousands of coal miners die in China on a nearly monthly basis. Their families are almost never compensated since the local government covers up these events, due to overwelming pressure from the central government to have 'no mining accidents'.


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## RupeeClock (May 16, 2011)

I want you guys to consider this savage hypocrisy.
http://www.apple.com/uk/environment/reports/



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> The way our products are manufactured, used and recycled represents the largest percentage of Apple’s total greenhouse gas emissions. That’s why we design them for better environmental performance. We measure that performance in Product Environmental Reports. Here you’ll find detailed information on how every Apple product performs in these categories:



Has it come to it that the general public may be more concerned with the environmental footprint it leaves, rather than the well-being of the people it employs, including those outside of the country?


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## ShadowSoldier (May 16, 2011)

"Yeah... hey listen. Um, Bob? Yeah, uh just letting you know, we have a new policy that, if you kill yourself, your family suffers."

"What? But if I kill myself, my family is already suffering."

"Oh believe me, I'm with you, just throwing it out there, we don't think they're suffering enough. Anyways, see you at the party on Friday."

"Party?"

"Ooh... ouch. Sorry."


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## Thesolcity (May 16, 2011)

doyama said:
			
		

> 2) Foxconn is one of THE BEST employers in China for unskilled labor. It is the kind of job people are lining up for. They actually charge the LEGAL wage required and *pay overtime*.
> 
> *OBJECTION!*
> 
> ...



This contract was passed to protect their own profits and everyone knows it. They're full of shit and that's why they only want to pay minimum. Think about it, why would workers kill themselves to allegedly pay off debt if they were working at a fair wage?


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## GreatZimkogway (May 16, 2011)

RupeeClock said:
			
		

> I want you guys to consider this savage hypocrisy.
> http://www.apple.com/uk/environment/reports/
> 
> 
> ...



Hasn't it ALWAYS been this way?


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## SamAsh07 (May 16, 2011)

Factories need better working conditions, or best, all the workers should go on strike at once, that will teach the factories a lesson.


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## Deleted member 473940 (May 16, 2011)

These sort of things arent unknown in China.
BUT with Apple


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (May 16, 2011)

I found this part of the article to be especially twisted:


			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> [The Centre for Research on Multinational Companies and Students & Scholars Against Corporate Misbehaviour (SACOM)] said the company initially responded to the spate of suicides by bringing in monks to exorcise evil spirits.


What spineless, criminal mockery!
SACOM released a report on the conditions at FOXCONN if anybody's interested: http://sacom.hk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05...l-promises1.pdf


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## Frogman (May 16, 2011)

You all say this despising apple but a large majority of us own flashcards, just imagine how good the conditions of those factories are.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 16, 2011)

Coreyfrog7 said:
			
		

> You all say this despising apple but a large majority of us own flashcards, just imagine how good the conditions of those factories are.




Probably not bad at all. They're probably cheap as hell to make and require very little work.


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## qlum (May 16, 2011)

why does everyone make it like foxconn only makes apple stuff they don't they make a lot better products than the i-crap you keep hearing about.
foxconn for example also makes nintendo, sony, microsoft stuff.


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## KingdomBlade (May 16, 2011)

It's China. Of course this is happening.

This is probably the same in a lot of companies.


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## 8BitWalugi (May 16, 2011)

What.
The. 
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!?

The fact that this is even necessary shows whats wrong...


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## Deleted member 473940 (May 16, 2011)

Coreyfrog7 said:
			
		

> You all say this despising apple but a large majority of us own flashcards, just imagine how good the conditions of those factories are.


I am sure most people are aware how things work in China, but this is sort of unexpected from a big corparation like Apple.
Guess this is why they manufacture stuff in china


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## art-101 (May 16, 2011)

RupeeClock said:
			
		

> I want you guys to consider this savage hypocrisy.
> http://www.apple.com/uk/environment/reports/
> 
> 
> ...



The most environment friendly company in the world, it just so happens the least ethical.

When I look at Steve Jobs I picture the villain from Temple of Doom.


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## nutella (May 16, 2011)

Why is everyone blaming Apple? Apple just produces their products at the factories. They're not in control over the factories' policies.


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## Ravte (May 16, 2011)

nutella said:
			
		

> Why is everyone blaming Apple? Apple just produces their products at the factories. They're not in control over the factories' policies.



By boycotting Apples products, they'll eventually notice the drop in sales, ask the customers wassup, notice that people don't like this situation in the factories, Apple does something because Jobs is just another greedy person looking for more money. (I don't mean it's all Jobs fault lol)

Honestly, money makes the world go round, you got the power, you go for it. It's been seen throughout the history, you abuse the weak to make profit and humans seem to be obsessed with this thing called money, so why ever stop?

Too bad this situation can't be solved in a blink of an eye. Imo this was a d*ck move from the factory owners, just another way of saving/getting money while disguising the attempt as a way to improve the workers life quality.

I don't know how much a person who's in the state of mind to commit a suicide, cares about the money his or hers relatives could milk from the situation. So in the end what good does this pledge do then?


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## nutella (May 16, 2011)

Ravte said:
			
		

> nutella said:
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Had the article not even mentioned Apple, most people wouldn't really care as much. It just adds shock value to grab attention. It doesn't make sense to boycott Apple specifically when Foxconn produces and assembles a variety of tech products for many different companies.


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## BlueStar (May 16, 2011)

Next time you want to moan about trade unions because subway workers are on strike or whatever, consider what your working life would be like without the labour movement.


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## Miss Panda (May 16, 2011)

nutella said:
			
		

> Why is everyone blaming Apple? Apple just produces their products at the factories. They're not in control over the factories' policies.


Apple have immense power. They can do a lot but they care more about money than kicking Foxconn into touch. The only way I can see this changing is through boycotts and continued pressure through the media/social networking sites etc. Public pressure can change this. And the same goes for the other companies that use Foxconn facilities.


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## nutella (May 16, 2011)

mabilouz said:
			
		

> nutella said:
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Fair point.


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## naved.islam14 (May 16, 2011)

My mind is at a fight with its self thinking whether this is good or bad.


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## The Catboy (May 16, 2011)

I am so glad I don't use Apple products.


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## Ikki (May 16, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> I am so glad I don't use Apple products.


Same here.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (May 16, 2011)

naved.islam14 said:
			
		

> My mind is at a fight with its self thinking whether this is good or bad.


I would suggest that it is bad. These "anti-suicide" pledges serve two functions. First, FOXCONN acknowledges that working conditions are intolerable, militaristic, and cruel, but that no significant measures will be taken to improve their lot besides arbitrary wage increases when the mainstream media gets wind of it. This is not to mention the "suicide nets" that have been installed at these factories before this. Second, these pledges will force the families of the deceased to only seek minimum restitution. In effect, these pledges enable FOXCONN to hold their workers responsible for their misery that the company itself created. If possible, don't look at this as a matter of defending the "right" to life or death. It is essentially FOXCONN trying their hardest to stifle worker protest against their conditions to make them liable for how they are treated by management.


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## terminal_illness (May 16, 2011)

nobodys putting a gun to thier head, if they dont like their job they can quit, 
AND illegal overtime doesnt mean not paid overtime, it means more overtime hours than what is limited by law. not familliar with chinas overtime laws tho.


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## ByteMunch (May 16, 2011)

Uh, Foxconn make, like, everything. Not just apple stuff, although that may be the most well-known company... and Apple, Foxconn, or any other company involved really do not care. They just want their money.



			
				terminal_illness said:
			
		

> nobodys putting a gun to thier head, if they dont like their job they can quit,



If they quit, their family lose their primary source of income. The country is already overpopulated enough, and I guess every job has 100 guys going for it. It's not that easy


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## Necron (May 16, 2011)

terminal_illness said:
			
		

> nobodys putting a gun to thier head, if they dont like their job they can quit,
> AND illegal overtime doesnt mean not paid overtime, it means more overtime hours than what is limited by law. not familliar with chinas overtime laws tho.
> In China the situation is not that easy like other countries. Being so many people, if they quit, the chances of founding another job a pretty close to 0, so don't go saying "just quit"
> 
> ...


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## regnad (May 16, 2011)

The awesome thing about globalization is that we all join countries like China and India in a race to the bottom.

Why is the middle class disappearing in America? Why is union-busting becoming so common? 

How else can the US remain competitive? At least that's the idea. I bet China and India can outdo anyone in the horrible, exploitative working conditions department, though, and I bet Chinese workers can outdo anyone in the silently tolerating it department.


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## GameWinner (May 16, 2011)

Damn, I got an iPod to hack it. Now I feel bad for even wanting to get one in the first place..


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (May 17, 2011)

GameWinner said:
			
		

> Damn, I got an iPod to hack it. Now I feel bad for even wanting to get one in the first place..


FOXCONN is at fault. Not you.


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## Hakoda (May 17, 2011)

I know Foxconn is the company that is in charge of the factory but doesn't Apple have a saying this? I'm not saying its Apple's fault; mostly Foxconn's but Apple could do _something_.


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## Foxi4 (May 17, 2011)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> doyama said:
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Umm... no.

Illegal overtime means that the time a given employee spent working during one week exceeds the maximum ammount of hours he can work according to the law.

In China, a person can work a maximum of 36 hours weekly plus one hour of overtime each day, which comes down to a maximum of 184 monthly.

Additionally to this standard, if extension of working hours is needed due to special reasons an employer may extend working hours for no more than 3 hours a day and no more than 36 hours a month.

Foxconn is paying those people for their overtime and is helping them get out of poverty, so instead of pointing at them and saying they're meanies, go on ahead and point at the companies who do the exact same thing to their workers, only in exchange for a bowl of rice.


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## DJ91990 (May 17, 2011)

Thus is one of the many reasons why I do not like apple products. THEY ARE THE MACHINES THEY WANT TO ENSLAVES US ALL!

No really though, that's just outrageous. Now I am starting to understand why Japan was formed. China is full of jerks!


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (May 17, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> Foxconn is paying those people for their overtime and is helping them get out of poverty, so instead of pointing at them and saying they're meanies, go on ahead and point at the companies who do the exact same thing to their workers, only in exchange for a bowl of rice.
> It's true that the overtime is paid. But the overtime is also mandatory, despite FOXCONN's claims to the contrary. If the workers decide not to take part in the overtime, they will be chided for "work stoppage." The *amount* of overtime that they work is illegal, or approaches illegal levels. It's remarkably clear in this document: http://sacom.hk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05...l-promises1.pdf
> QUOTE3. Working hours
> Article 41 of the Labour Law in China stipulates that overtime should not exceed 3 hours per day and 36 hours per month. The Electronics Industry Citizenship Coalition (EICC) and Apple also have codes to regulate the working hours at electronics suppliers. Apple manifests that all the overtime work should be voluntary and the working hour should be comply with local labour laws. “Under no circumstances shall workweeks exceed the
> ...


The fact that FOXCONN pays in wages rather than bowls of rice does not excuse their conduct toward their workers. I believe there are also some errors in your conception of Chinese labor law. For example, the maximum is 36 hours *monthly*, not weekly. Oh well, it's all here, anyway: http://www.usmra.com/china/Labour%20Law.htm


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## BedtimeGuy (May 17, 2011)

Do you think Foxconn is doing this to protect the workers or it's profits?  
profits, obviously.

Do you think Apple is aware of this requirement to employees? 
of course they are, why would we know if they don't?

Do you think Apple will attempt to improve the conditions?
of course not, when have any of these big corporations who have so little scruples as to outsource all of their work to the cheapest companies possible in the first place?


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## stanleyopar2000 (May 17, 2011)

...it's no better.


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## datroubler (May 17, 2011)

This is capitalism and we all know that capitalism kills. Nothing new. Look at the tantalum mines, this material is also needed for this devices (mobile phones). Tantalum can be found in the democratic republic of kongo and german companies like bayer buy it from the "rebels" and they buy weapons for this money to surpress people.
The only thing we can do is to smash this barbarien system.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (May 18, 2011)

Foxconn is at fault, not apple...Foxconn produces items for several hundred other companies which include Intel, Nintendo, Sony, Dell, and Nokia. If you're going to boycott Apple you should boycott all of the other comapnies that have their products made by Foxconn as well because to only boycott Apple is pure stupidity.

Yes, the workers do get paid overtime but they're are forced to work it if they want to keep their jobs! Also they wouldn't need to work so many hours if they were getting paid a decent wage. I seriously think people need to boycott any company who condone such practices while they sit back in their corporate offices with their pockets lined with money! Take half of what the big wigs are making and they'll still have tons of money to throw around! They need to sort their priorities and realize that without their "Unskilled Workers" they have nothing.

I'm glad to say that I almost never buy anything new, I always get my tech 2nd hand because it's not only cheaper for me but also saves 1 more product from coming of the shelf, therefore is 1 more product that doesn't have to be made in the factory.


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## thegame07 (May 18, 2011)

The same people moaning about this would probably complain when their apple product goes up by £50.  I'm afraid that's life if we want things for cheaper we need to accept people get treated like a slave when making it. You could say apple products are overpriced but if they where more expensive to make I guarantee you it would be the customer that gets hit with the bill.

Treating their workers better = more cost. 

It's shitty but if you want it to change expect higher prices.

I don't condone what they are doing btw.


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## _Chaz_ (May 18, 2011)

I remember reading that the Apple employees were prone to suicide, but making them sign a contract?

Signing a deal with the devil has never been so literal.


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## nando (May 18, 2011)

they better not kill themselves, we need lots of Wii 2s at launch


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## doyama (May 18, 2011)

You have to also remember that most people WANT to work overtime. Mostly because they are paid the legal minimum wage (which is the exception since most other places don't even bother to pay you that), and with high costs to live in the large cities where such factories are located, most need to work overtime in order to pay rent/food/etc and send money back to relatives. Again the fact they even get overtime pay is the exception and thus makes Foxconn one of the more desireable places to work. 

You can contrast that with say being a coal miner, where you are given no safety equipment and your remains are uncermoniously concealed during the ever frequent mine collapses and no compensation paid to your family. Or working for one of the e-waste companies, where children and families use mercury/arsenic to melt off gold/silver/palladium/copper off of electronic circuits, then dump the toxic waste that's left over which poisons their drinking water. 

I'm not saying there aren't improvements to be made at Foxconn. But to single them out is really missing the forest for the trees. There are much WORSE human rights, employee abuses going on that would be better served. The safety of coal miners would save THOUSANDS of lives a year if proper safety measures were implemented and enforced. Compare that with the maybe 10-15 suicides that are being contained per year at Foxconn.


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## DeadLocked (May 18, 2011)

Won't it cost them less to improve working conditions than it does in legal fees?!
And not only that, it would eliminate the controversy surrounding this.

So from apple's point of view it's a win, yes?


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## doyama (May 18, 2011)

DeadLocked said:
			
		

> Won't it cost them less to improve working conditions than it does in legal fees?!
> And not only that, it would eliminate the controversy surrounding this.
> 
> So from apple's point of view it's a win, yes?



Firstly Foxconn is not an "Apple" company. they make stuff for pretty much every major consumer electronics company in the world.

Secondly it's not like Apple or other companies can simply move manufacturing even if it was to the point of employers whipping employees in Viking style ships and feeding them gruel like in Oliver Twist. The high volume, high quality merchandise that is made there can only be done in a small number of places in the entire world. Apple also doesn't have the luxury of having their own factories like Sony or Motorola does to manufacture goods. Since they have to outsource it, their options are pretty limited. And moving production at this point would be hugely disruptive and would cost them more in lost sales than any 'good will' gained.

There aren't many 'legal fees' associated with this anyways. Even if employees were jumping off the buildings onto floors with metal spikes on them by the truck load, they simply pay the family the stipend associated in their contract and go out to the huge line outside and pick 100 other people who want that job. There are no shortage of people who want to do this kind of work, espeically with the local agriculture being ravaged the way it is by the ecological disasters from actual unscrupulous factories that pump out toxic waste like it's 1920.


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