# 14 reported dead, 20 injured in shooting at Dark Night Rises showing.



## DrOctapu (Jul 20, 2012)

Several people were just killed in a shooting during a midnight screening of Dark Night Rises. Police are still apparently responding.


> [1] http://www.9news.com...ting-in-Aurora-
> [2] MSNBC
> Also here : [3] http://www.khow.com/...rticle=10283158
> One more for the list of news articles: [4] http://www.koaa.com/...-movie-theatre/
> ...






Source


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## RupeeClock (Jul 20, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> *snip*


Not appropriate dude.


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## yuyuyup (Jul 20, 2012)

I was watching the coverage on 9-News Denver just now, a fucking PRANK CALLER pretending to be a Police Chief called in and got on air, mentioned Howard Stern, I can't fucking believe some people.

edit: at the time of that prank call, 9-News upped the death count to 15, now it's back down to 14 so I'm assuming the prank caller reported a fake death.

edit: police are saying they are confident it was a lone gunman.

edit: confirmed that a 3 month old child is being treated who was injured in the incident.

edit: for whatever it's worth, I heard on the news someone say the shooter is 24 years old, I don't know if that's confirmed.

edit: multiple sources confirmations vary, but KNUS (radio) reduced the counts to 12 injured and 38 injured which seems to be more of a consensus.

edit: Aurora police say 14 dead.

Witness says the shooter kicked in the door, threw gas canisters, and waited calmly for them to go off before shooting. 3 weapons total found.

The name of the shooter is James Holmes.

edit: Police said he was not resisting arrest, but is currently not cooperating with investigators.  They are entering his apartment through the window, I'm guessing because they are worried for a boobie-trap which is understandable considering the massive damage he caused on his own.

edit: (changed) KNUS confirming TWELVE dead

*EDIT: THE 3 MONTH OLD WAS DISCHARGED FROM THE HOSPITAL.*  I would imagine the child is ok, that's all I just heard.


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## Saddamsdevil (Jul 20, 2012)

plasma dragon007 said:


> *snip*



I liked this and swiftly realised I am going to hell.

I don't get the point of this though, is it just an attempt to cause terror? I'll wait for the investigation to be over to see what the statement will be.


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 20, 2012)

who does this guy think he is the joker shooting people and planting bombs? there's some sick fucks in this world.


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## RupeeClock (Jul 20, 2012)

yuyuyup said:


> I was watching the coverage on 9-News Denver just now, a fucking PRANK CALLER pretending to be a Police Chief called in and got on air, mentioned Howard Stern, I can't fucking believe some people.


Why do I get the sick feeling he was pretending to be James Gordon?
What's next, someone impersonating a district attorney like Harvey Dent?

No, really, this is kinda odd. The prank caller, the style of shooting and bomb placement, like someone is deliberately staging all this awful shit.


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## Bladexdsl (Jul 20, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> No, really, this is kinda odd. The prank caller, the style of shooting and bomb placement, like someone is deliberately staging all this awful shit.


maybe the joker is REAL? it's creepy cos it's actually sounds like something he would do.


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## Hadrian (Jul 20, 2012)

It's a damn shame that a total waste of life felt like they had to do this to people who just wanted to watch a film and have a good time.


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## RupeeClock (Jul 20, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> It's a damn shame that a total waste of life felt like they had to do this to people who just wanted to watch a film and have a good time.


I've heard of many senseless attacks on business, the public and schools, but never anything like an attack on a place of entertainment.

I wouldn't call the Lincoln assassination an attack on entertainment, that location was incidental and not a senseless attack.


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## DrOctapu (Jul 20, 2012)

Newer sources saying 16 dead, suspect in custody.


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## lostdwarf (Jul 20, 2012)

Whoever this wanker turns out to be.  He should be hung, drawn and quartered and his name forgotten for the rest of time.
Erase this looser.


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## Hadrian (Jul 20, 2012)

Just heard that some children in the theatre were shot too.


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## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> I've heard of many senseless attacks on business, the public and schools, but never anything like an attack on a place of entertainment.


Stadiums have long been "terrorist targets" and have occasionally suffered politically motivated attacks.  At present, though, this one doesn't seem to be politically driven.  It "just" seems to be a mass murder.


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## BrightNeko (Jul 20, 2012)

A confirmed bombing  plus teargas, some fucked up people in the world man.


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## yuyuyup (Jul 20, 2012)

DrOctapu said:


> Newer sources saying 16 dead, suspect in custody.


9-news still saying 14.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Jul 20, 2012)

My condolences to the families.

Shooting children is not cool man. I hope the gunman gets more than what he deserves.


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## Satangel (Jul 20, 2012)

Let's hope they make an example of him, and I would prefer life sentence instead of death sentence.
I'm going to watch a the new Batman film pretty soon too, it'll be only out for 3 days at that moment, so it's kind of a similar situation where this happened.


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

the journals are saiyng that 50 people injured and 14 dead


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## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

ZAFDeltaForce said:


> My condolences to the families.
> 
> Shooting children is not cool man. I hope the gunman gets more than what he deserves.


Unfortunately, if the guy's a freaking psycho, he may wind up like the perpetrator of the Tucson shooting in January 2011.  (The one which injured a congresswoman -- Gabrielle Giffords -- and President Obama visited Tucson expressly to make a special (memorial) address to the press about it)
http://en.wikipedia....ed_Lee_Loughner
http://en.wikipedia....Tucson_shooting

I was living 4 miles away from that shooting when it happened.  One of the murder victims was a 9-year old girl.  His court process is especially messed up because he succeeded in killing a Judge though.


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## IBNobody (Jul 20, 2012)

At least the killer didn't kill himself and take the easy way out.


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## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

IBNobody said:


> At least the killer didn't kill himself and take the easy way out.


I really couldn't imagine what jailing Loughner and providing him with a defender has cost taxpayers thus far, and he isn't even close to seeing justice.  I'm not saying I wish these criminals killed themselves, but it would have been a small favor to the cantankerous justice system.


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## IBNobody (Jul 20, 2012)

exangel said:


> I really couldn't imagine what jailing Loughner and providing him with a defender has cost taxpayers thus far, and he isn't even close to seeing justice.  I'm not saying I wish these criminals killed themselves, but it would have been a small favor to the cantankerous justice system.



I was speaking about this new killer (James Holmes), but I felt the same way about Loughner. Yes, it's going to cost us money, but it makes it harder for certain people to blame this on video games or movies if the justice system can question the guy.


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## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

IBNobody said:


> exangel said:
> 
> 
> > I really couldn't imagine what jailing Loughner and providing him with a defender has cost taxpayers thus far, and he isn't even close to seeing justice.  I'm not saying I wish these criminals killed themselves, but it would have been a small favor to the cantankerous justice system.
> ...


I realized that, but I hadn't seen a name for the suspect of the original topic.  And good point.


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## shadowgauge (Jul 20, 2012)

From the reports I've read it sounds like this guy reenacted a scene from Uwe Boll's movie RAMPAGE,
sick mofo whats wrong with ppl.


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## lostdwarf (Jul 20, 2012)

The most sickening thing is he shot a BABY at point blank.  Seriously, you guys have the death penalty still right?  USE IT.


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## Guild McCommunist (Jul 20, 2012)

lostdwarf said:


> The most sickening thing is he shot a BABY at point blank.  Seriously, you guys have the death penalty still right?  USE IT.



It varies on state. A quick Google shows that Colorado only executed one man though since 1977. But with casualties this high, unless he pleads insanity (which sounds very likely considering he would like shoot a baby at point blank), I really see them breaking out the ol' needle.


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## giavol (Jul 20, 2012)

This is the reason why gun control is necessary! It is scary to know that you could go in a public place and get shot for no reason. I don´t thing that the guy had a beef with all of the persons present in that room. He was just plain crazy with a gun. It is a scary world if you can buy bullets at sales prices. I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.


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## Sheimi (Jul 20, 2012)

The guy should get life in prison or be put in a mental facility.


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## Hadrian (Jul 20, 2012)

lostdwarf said:


> Seriously, you guys have the death penalty still right?  USE IT.


I'd rather the dickhead suffer, death would be the easy way out.




giavol said:


> This is the reason why gun control is necessary! It is scary to know that you could go in a public place and get shot for no reason. I don´t thing that the guy had a beef with all of the persons present in that room. He was just plain crazy with a gun. It is a scary world if you can buy bullets at sales prices. I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.


Totally agree, ok while people will still get hold of bullets (we still have shootings here but nowhere near as frequent) there will still be a lot less to go around.


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## narutopet112 (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh my god even kids where involved 
What the hell is wrong with people these days


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## chartube12 (Jul 20, 2012)

Bullets are ridiculously easy to make. The only way to raise the cost of bullets effectively would be to raise the cost of the materials to make them. If they did that everything else would skyrocket in price.


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## The Milkman (Jul 20, 2012)

If this guy gets off with an insanity plea that's when you know the justice system is fucked. I don't care if you were insane or not in your right mind, you fucking kill someone, you deserve to die. And no matter who you are, NOBODIES life is worth more then another, you kill more then one person, you deserve worse. That's how they did it in ancient times, that's how they did it in medieval times, that's how they did it in the colonial and victorian age. That's how they should do it now.


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## trumpet-205 (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> This is the reason why gun control is necessary! It is scary to know that you could go in a public place and get shot for no reason. I don´t thing that the guy had a beef with all of the persons present in that room. He was just plain crazy with a gun. It is a scary world if you can buy bullets at sales prices. I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.



I prefer simply outlaw all gun sales. 2nd amendment does not have the intention of giving you the rights to bear arm. Its original intention is to give states militia the rights to bear arm when states lacks federal protection. Due to poor wording, most people believe it did.


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## Seaking (Jul 20, 2012)

trumpet-205 said:


> I prefer simply outlaw all gun sales.



that is pretty funny actually.and the 2nd amendment was made so people can protect themselves from any threat, pretty much.

pretty fucked up what that guy did, but...at a batman movie showing? i kinda chuckled.


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## narutopet112 (Jul 20, 2012)

Seaking said:


> trumpet-205 said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer simply outlaw all gun sales.
> ...


this is the last batman movie and look what happend


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## InuYasha (Jul 20, 2012)

Sadly another pointless act of violence,i'm sure we could think of plenty of evil things to do to this idiot...


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## DrOctapu (Jul 20, 2012)

Seaking said:


> trumpet-205 said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer simply outlaw all gun sales.
> ...


The purpose of the second amendment is to give guns to law abiding citizens to protect themselves from people who wouldn't care about the laws anyway.

And apparently this guy's house was rigged to blow when police entered it. Freaky shit.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jul 20, 2012)

trumpet-205 said:


> giavol said:
> 
> 
> > This is the reason why gun control is necessary! It is scary to know that you could go in a public place and get shot for no reason. I don´t thing that the guy had a beef with all of the persons present in that room. He was just plain crazy with a gun. It is a scary world if you can buy bullets at sales prices. I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.
> ...



If it's been said once, it's been said a million times before. If you outlaw guns and the sale of guns, only the outlaws will have guns. If you outlaw bullets, people will start making their own.

There really is no simple solution that you can just say "We should do X" and it would make it all better. The only way to keep this sort of violence down is to keep certain types of people away from guns, but even a solution like that has it's problems.


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## trumpet-205 (Jul 20, 2012)

Seaking said:


> trumpet-205 said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer simply outlaw all gun sales.
> ...



This is exact clause of Second Amendment



> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



A lot of people will tell you that Second Amendment is supposed to give state militia the right to bear arm, not individual.


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## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

There's tons of gun ownership in Canada and you don't see stuff like this there.  If you really think guns are the problem you're missing the fact that American culture and media overemphasize crime, politics, and reality TV yet provide approximately fuck-all for the arts and humanities, national parks, and youth programs.  There's currently a bill in the works that could literally kill PBS,  NPR, and AmeriCorps.  That means killing Sesame Street, nonprofit News radio, and one of the biggest volunteer organizations in our country.

America is a couple generations behind in culture and that is why our citizens go berserk with guns when people in other countries do not (or rather, they do it for political reasons, not just to commit a senseless crime because they're psychotic).  Although the film "Bowling for Columbine" is very liberal documentary, it helps to illustrate the real problems with respect to gun control and media perception of crimes in the US.

Ultimately this attack is not the fault of a lack of gun control, it is a lack of responsibility, which isn't something that can be measured by anything beyond a background check when a permit is issued.  
If guns were more tightly regulated, some people would more eagerly seek illegal/unregistered firearms, and likely, the theft of (legally-acquired) firearms from citizens would go up.  I don't personally own a gun, but I've dated men who did own them and other weapons and I'm against tighter controls on them because again, legal availability is not the problem, our whole damn culture is infected with the opportunity to breed this kind of insanity.


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## TheDreamLord (Jul 20, 2012)

Not trying to sound like a bastard, but... if you want to cause harm, you don't exactly choose a batman movie to cause it. Still feel sorry for everybody there though, and to all of the children especially. That would be quite the traumatising event.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 20, 2012)

Americans actually believe that if guns were outlawed then this stuff wont happen...


Spoiler



AHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
I CANT STOP LAUGHING!


Spoiler



On a serious note I give my condolences to all of the people who got involved in this tragedy.


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## Seaking (Jul 20, 2012)

trumpet-205 said:


> This is exact clause of Second Amendment
> 
> 
> > the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
> ...



yep, alright then.


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

that guy must have liked the movie so badly that he wants to be an actual hero villain


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## Blaze163 (Jul 20, 2012)

So this lunatic just bursts into a cinema, throws gas canisters then starts shooting kids for no reason?

I would post what I'd like to happen to him, but I can guarantee the mods wouldn't want that sort of language on the boards.

Seriously though, WTF? Such a senseless act. What possible motive could there be for this? Any idea what went wrong in this guy's brain yet?


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## AlanJohn (Jul 20, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> that guy must have liked the movie so badly that he wants to be an actual hero villain


Actually, that reminded me a hypothesis going on in the internet right now...


Spoiler



Basically, the guy(s) went to the theatre to create a real batman.


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## chavosaur (Jul 20, 2012)

Its times like this that just make me happier to pursue a career in law enforcement. To make a difference and protect people from monsters like this. I can admit, our law system is horrifyingly stupid sometimes, when it comes to the defenses a person can use (by defense i mean excuse...)


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## Zaertix (Jul 20, 2012)

trumpet-205 said:


> Seaking said:
> 
> 
> > trumpet-205 said:
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But you're forgetting the clause the Supreme Court issued in '08, (DoC v. Heller  554 U.S. 570) where the Second Amendment also protects an individuals right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in militia. (only for lawful purposes, like self-defense) So......


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

AlanJohn said:


> weavile001 said:
> 
> 
> > that guy must have liked the movie so badly that he wants to be an actual hero villain
> ...


and the killer wiil be the joker


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## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> If this guy gets off with an insanity plea that's when you know the justice system *works okay*. I don't care if you were insane or not in your right mind, you fucking kill someone, you deserve to *either be sent to jail for life or put in a mental hospital*. And no matter who you are, *NOBODY has the right to choose whether or not someone lives or dies*, you kill more then one person, you deserve worse. *People were fucked up* in ancient times, *people were still fucked up* in medieval times, *People were getting better but still bad* in the colonial and victorian age. That's *Definaetly not* how they should do it now.


fixed.  I can't believe some people still believe in the death penalty.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

That's... horrible news. At first I thought it was a hoax that was supposed to promote the movie, but as I kept reading I realized that it's the truth. Just on the side note...



> Death penalty was reinstated in Colorado on January 1, 1975. (...) Currently there are three people awaiting execution: 1) Nathan Dunlap who was condemned for shooting and killing four people at a Chuck E. Cheese restaurant, 2) Sir Mario Owens who was convicted and received a jury's death determination in 2008 for the murder of a young couple, Javad Marshall-Fields and his fiancee, Vivian Wolfe who were prosecution witnesses in a murder trial involving Owens, and 3) Robert Ray who ordered the murders, committed by Sir Mario Owens, of witnesses Javad Marshall-Fields and Vivian Wolfe in his pending murder trial.


Here's your no.4, these people can't be re-socialized.


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > If this guy gets off with an insanity plea that's when you know the justice system *works okay*. I don't care if you were insane or not in your right mind, you fucking kill someone, you deserve to *either be sent to jail for life or put in a mental hospital*. And no matter who you are, *NOBODY has the right to choose whether or not someone lives or dies*, you kill more then one person, you deserve worse. *People were fucked up* in ancient times, *people were still fucked up* in medieval times, *People were getting better but still bad* in the colonial and victorian age. That's *Definaetly not* how they should do it now.
> ...


just shot at the killer head , then poof a death penalty


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > If this guy gets off with an insanity plea that's when you know the justice system *works okay*. I don't care if you were insane or not in your right mind, you fucking kill someone, you deserve to *either be sent to jail for life or put in a mental hospital*. And no matter who you are, *NOBODY has the right to choose whether or not someone lives or dies*, you kill more then one person, you deserve worse. *People were fucked up* in ancient times, *people were still fucked up* in medieval times, *People were getting better but still bad* in the colonial and victorian age. That's *Definaetly not* how they should do it now.
> ...


There is nothing that can be _fixed _about a criminal of this caliber, no amount of therapy will "fix" him, all it amounts to is feeding and clothing him for tax payer's money.


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## BlueStar (Jul 20, 2012)

Seaking said:


> That is pretty funny actually.and the 2nd amendment was made so people can protect themselves from any threat, pretty much.



And yet, for all the legal guns in the US, these things always end with suicide or armed police, never some gun packin' patriot.

Dispatcer audio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFuNDOQ3b-0


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## chavosaur (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > If this guy gets off with an insanity plea that's when you know the justice system *works okay*. I don't care if you were insane or not in your right mind, you fucking kill someone, you deserve to *either be sent to jail for life or put in a mental hospital*. And no matter who you are, *NOBODY has the right to choose whether or not someone lives or dies*, you kill more then one person, you deserve worse. *People were fucked up* in ancient times, *people were still fucked up* in medieval times, *People were getting better but still bad* in the colonial and victorian age. That's *Definaetly not* how they should do it now.
> ...


While i can sort of agree i can also disagree. I think some people deserve to rot in a cell for the crimes they committed. And others, the truly evil and demented human beings, truly deserve death. We cant seriously sit here, and think that the world would be better off without certain individuals in it. Just think, do you really think bin laden would have been able to keep his life had he not been gunned down?


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
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> 
> > Zantigo said:
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Foxi4 said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Zantigo said:
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maybe he was hired for the job... or was threatened to do it.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jul 20, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> AlanJohn said:
> 
> 
> > weavile001 said:
> ...




Actually the killer would be Joe Chill.

But seriously, where this theory falls apart is Wayne's parents were killed OUTSIDE the theater, not gunned down inside. Also, Wayne's parents were mugged, being shot in the process. This incident shares no similarity besides taking place in or around a movie theater.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> maybe he was hired for the job... or was threatened to do it.


Or maybe he just killed 14 people, planted and detonated several explosive devices and now, if he goes away with an insanity plea even though the witnesses clearly state that he was calm and collected, you will feed and clothe him till the end of his life.

How come rabid dogs are put to sleep when they so much as bite someone and people simply state "I was insane at the time" and go away with the biggest atrocities?


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> weavile001 said:
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> 
> > AlanJohn said:
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maybe a victim will seek for revenge...


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## AlanJohn (Jul 20, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> weavile001 said:
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> 
> > AlanJohn said:
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Spoiler



As I said it's a hypothesis (not a theory, keep in mind) from the depths of 4chan and le reddit.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jul 20, 2012)

Fucking disgusting. The mass shooting in Toronto _just_ happened a couple days ago and now this.

My condolences to the families affected by this.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jul 20, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> TwinRetro said:
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> 
> > weavile001 said:
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There will be no revenge. This psycho is going to die one of two ways. 

1. By the hands of the state through Death Penalty OR
2. By the hands of a relative of one of the victims he's bound to meet in prison.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

weavile001 said:


> maybe a victim will seek for revenge...


The system is supposed to prevent that - that's not how it's supposed to work. A  crime in revenge is still a crime - motivation pays no role here.


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## Seaking (Jul 20, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> And yet, for all the legal guns in the US, these things always end with suicide or armed police, never some gun packin' patriot.


its not "gun packin' patriot"'s (what the fuck is that anyway, some southern hick?) duty to take down someone that is doing shit like that, its the police, because if someone else with a gun tried to help, the cops would try shooting him too, thinking he was helping the crazy fuck.

if the crazy fuck tried breaking into my home, on the other hand, blow his brains out.


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## AlanJohn (Jul 20, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> weavile001 said:
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> 
> > TwinRetro said:
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3. By committing suicide.


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

i saw the news now,where the killer made a trap for the police at his home


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## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

chavosaur said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
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> > Zantigo said:
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I guess I can sort of agree with you on that.


Foxi4 said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
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I disagree.  Mental illnesses can almost always be fixed, provided the proper treatment is given.


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## Blaze163 (Jul 20, 2012)

While I'm all for trying to rehabilitate people who can genuinely be helped and most importantly WANT to be helped (and it has to be a genuine desire to be a better person, not just play acting to get away with it), there has to be a cut-off point. There has to be a point in the process where you recognise that some people are simply beyond all hope. They don't want help, they don't want to be decent members of society, they just want to act on animal instincts to kill and do whatever they want without consequence. People like that give the entire species a bad name. I say the law needs to be a LOT tougher on people like that. Not to the point of a death penalty, but hear me out on this.

My old man and I were watching one of those cop chase shows a few years back. We calculated the ammount of money incurred by your average joy riding prat teenager. We ran up the costs of every consequence of such an idiotic move, like fuel costs for the helicopter and police cars, wages, damages caused to the area and any cars he smashed along the way, etc. We came to a conservative estimate of £20K for a fifteen minute chase. The kid got a few hundred quid fine, a slapped wrist and sent on his merry way. FUCK THAT. Make them work doing the jobs too menial for upstanding members of society until they pay off every single penny. Kids would think twice about stealing cars if it meant spending months of their lives cleaning public urinals for no money.

And don't go bleating on about 'human rights' and 'respect for people who have lost their way'. No matter how bad your life is, there's always the choice to do something about it or just give up and turn to crime. Unless you suffer from a genuine and proven medical condition that robs you of your conscience, you should forfeight your human rights the moment you choose to endanger others just to satisfy your own selfish desires. Harsh, but it's the only real way to make things work. Right now the law is a limp-dicked waste of space that most serious criminals laugh at. Make the criminals fear what will come to them if they make the choice to turn to crime.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> chavosaur said:
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> > mrnintendo15 said:
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And what would happen when and if this "fixed" individual decides to pull the same shit again? It it really worth the risk of putting more people in danger, no matter how small the chance?


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

"The U.S. president, Barack Obama, said the shooting was "bad and meaningless."


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## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
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> > chavosaur said:
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If they were truly "fixed" than they wouldn't do something like this again.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> I disagree.  Mental illnesses can almost always be fixed, provided the proper treatment is given.





> If they were truly "fixed" than they wouldn't do something like this again.


Your naivety is baffling. Read Blaze's post - there's a lot of truths in it. Some people are beyond the reach of any "help", moreover, they don't even want it. Humans aren't special - they're animals like any other and sometimes they just "snap". There's nothing you can do to prevent it and nothing you can do to fix it, and prolonged therapy leads to one thing - those people "fake" their recovery - they tell the doctors what the doctors want to hear and in the event of being discharged they go right back to their old habbits.

Want to keep them alive just because it tickles your sense of morality? Alright, but make them work for their own food and shelter, because I sure as hell don't want to fund their paid vacation.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> > mrnintendo15 said:
> ...



That's absurd. Mental health is not an exact science. Any doctor that tells you they know completely and without a doubt that an individual is "cured" is full of shit.


----------



## Hells Malice (Jul 20, 2012)

There are plenty of crimes that are borderline, and one could say these people should be rehabilitated, and can be.

This is not one of those cases. This is a pathetic and disgusting act, and I really hope this idiot is executed or killed in prison in a brutal fashion. Trash like him deserves it. There's absolutely no point wasting jail space with his presence.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

I strongly agree with TwinRetro -_ this is not a guessing game, the stakes are far too high._ You have a killer of 14 people on your hands (12? I didn't read the updated info yet) that injured 30, at whom he opened fire, he also detonated explosives in a public, crowded place.

Let's say he goes to rehab. Let's imagine for a moment that the rehab fails and he does it again. What do _you _do? Say _"Oupsie! Well, he wasn't "fully cured", let's put him on some more rehab."_ and try again?

Are you willing to carry those 14 deaths and 30 injuries that may turn into a higher deathtoll in, say, 20 years on your conscience because you wanted to be noble and you value life?


----------



## Blaze163 (Jul 20, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> There are plenty of crimes that are borderline, and one could say these people should be rehabilitated, and can be.
> 
> This is not one of those cases. This is a pathetic and disgusting act, and I really hope this idiot is executed or killed in prison in a brutal fashion. Trash like him deserves it. There's absolutely no point wasting jail space with his presence.



Exactly. How many times do we hear that prisons are overcrowded? There are always going to be people like this who take advantage of a lenient legal system. They're not afraid to do whatever they want whenever they damn well please because the consequences are so disproportional to the action. I did a project on this in college years ago, and while researching I found that in some countries you get less time for [censored] than you do for stealing a car. The law is fucked up, simple as that. Needs a total redesign from the ground up to remove all the loopholes that criminals abuse for a free ride. Make it a solid wall that you only get past by either obeying the rules or by having a genuine condition and wanting to deal with it so you can follow said rules in the future.


----------



## Luigi2012SM64DS (Jul 20, 2012)

Where did this happen?


----------



## AlanJohn (Jul 20, 2012)

Luigi2012SM64DS said:


> Where did this happen?


Open your eyes and see the OP


----------



## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I strongly agree with TwinRetro -_ this is not a guessing game, the stakes are far too high._ You have a killer of 14 people on your hands (12? I didn't read the updated info yet) that injured 30, at whom he opened fire, he also detonated explosives in a public, crowded place.
> 
> Let's say he goes to rehab. Let's imagine for a moment that the rehab fails and he does it again. What do _you _do? Say _"Oupsie! Well, he wasn't "fully cured", let's put him on some more rehab."_ and try again?
> 
> Are you willing to carry those 14 deaths and 30 injuries that may turn into a higher deathtoll in, say, 20 years on your conscience because you wanted to be noble and you value life?


Since I know this argument could go on forever, I'll end it now.  you win.


----------



## LightyKD (Jul 20, 2012)

Is it me is is there just something messed up in the drinking water in Colorado? First Columbine and now this. Some sick fucks in that state.


----------



## chartube12 (Jul 20, 2012)

Reports keep changing. I see various news outlets saying 14/50, 12/20/, 16/60 and 18/75. So which is the truth?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> Since I know this argument could go on forever, I'll end it now.  you win.


There really are no winners and losers, no rights and wrongs in an argument like this because either way everybody loses - someone died and there is no solution and no suitable retribution since nobody can bring the victims back to life.

I too am not a huge fan of the Death Penalty, as silly as it may sound coming from me - a life is a life, but a line needs to be drawn between a human and a monster.

In my opinion, prisoners that are found to be beyond help, guilty of highly-atrocious crimes such as this one who pose a threat to society should be "canditates" for the Death Penalty with a choice of Life Imprisonment while working within the compound to fund their own living - this makes everybody happy since it's up to the prisoner then.

This kind of sentence should only be given by an impartial judge and a board of psychologists that are trained in the field of criminal psychology - only that kind of a combination can assert the potential for rehab, if there is any, and the state of mind of the offender.

...sounds good?


----------



## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

chartube12 said:


> Reports keep changing. I see various news outlets saying 14/50, 12/20/, 16/60 and 18/75. So which is the truth?



in sometime the news will say : the whole city was killed


----------



## rad140 (Jul 20, 2012)

Some more updated facts:
At least 12 dead, 38 59 injured
Suspect is 24 year old James Holmes, apparently a former medical student (dropout, my guess) EDIT: former medical student at the University of Colorado Denver School of Medicine, PhD neuroscience candidate at University of Colorado School of Medicine, withdrew in June.
Four weapons have been recovered: a 12-gauge shotgun with 3-round capacity (may be modified), a "AK-47" AR-15 knock-off (30 rounds, .223, likely semi-auto) and two Glock .40 handguns (one he used, other was in his car).
Federal agents found "items of interest" at his apartment, unclear what.
Bomb tech experts surveyed his apartment via camera through the window and have determined that it is booby-trapped with various sophisticated explosives.  Said it would take "hours or days" to clear.
The gas used seems to be some kind of tear-gas, unsure if home-made or a commercial product.
Pentagon confirmed US military service members were among the victims, unknown how many and if killed or injured.
Colorado does have the death penalty (1 executed, 4 on death row) and Holmes would meet at least one of the 17 criteria required to be eligible.  Seeing as this tragedy involved children, I see a jury likely to suggest it.


Source: CNN


----------



## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Since I know this argument could go on forever, I'll end it now.  you win.
> ...


sounds good.


----------



## LightyKD (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Since I know this argument could go on forever, I'll end it now.  you win.
> ...



Foxi, for once I agree with you. The whole prison system needs to be revamped. Also, corporations need t STAY AWAY from prisons. Here in America, corporate prisons are doing nothing more than trying to get law makers to make people into criminals for every little thing so they can line up their pockets. Our country is quickly becoming a police state and you're better off just staying in your house than going outside where you can be bullied by the police ans arrested for anything just because a cop says so. I feel sad for the victims and there really needs to be greater effort placed on Mental health in this country.


----------



## jonesman99 (Jul 20, 2012)

When I first read about this story, all I could do was shake my head. This is just sad. What was the point of it all? Guess they are going to start installing metal detectors in movie theaters now.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

jonesman99 said:


> When I first read about this story, all I could do was shake my head. This is just sad. What was the point of it all? Guess they are going to start installing metal detectors in movie theaters now.


You can't impose inconvenience on the entirety of the society when you only want to target a tiny fraction of it - bah! A few particles. This is also what was done "wrong" after 9/11 - the entire world was fed propaganda of fear and security measures went through the roof to the point that they were actually endangering ordinary citizens - on a Canadian airport, a Polish citizen who was waiting for his relatives and didn't know the language became restless and after countless attempts at trying to find a translator, he started yelling - clearly upset. The security tazed him to death - his heart just stopped. Incidents like this were re-occuring and are a staple example of why this never works. Moreover, it also instigated fear and discrimination againts Muslims and Arabs in many countries - many people after the attacks started to automatically assume that every Muslim and every Arab is a terrorist, when it's obviously not the case.

What this world needs is putting respect of law back where it's supposed to by inflicting harsh and swift judgement that will make the criminal think twice before comitting a crime. That, and financing the Police better. Right now, the financing is poor and the officers are prone to become corrupt simply because they too need to save money for retirement. A well-paid officer will be far too afraid of losing his/her chair to accept a bribe. Same goes for the entirety of the Justice System - it needs to be a well-oiled and properly maintained machine so that it is free from outside influence.

We're not talking about a police state - we're talking about a system that works the way it's intended to.


----------



## chartube12 (Jul 20, 2012)

jonesman99 said:


> When I first read about this story, all I could do was shake my head. This is just sad. What was the point of it all? Guess they are going to start installing metal detectors in movie theaters now.



When is the last time you been to a movie theater? Even before 9/11 they all were getting metal detectors...In PA at least. Than again in PA everyone is marked as a criminal at birth til they graduate college.


----------



## Fear Zoa (Jul 20, 2012)

*sigh* and I bet he'll be out in 3 years due to "good behavior". 

We really need to learn to punish criminals more, its always the same people.


----------



## giavol (Jul 20, 2012)

Ok. Gun control wont work, but how can it be legal to buy an AK47? Who can think than owning such weapons is for protection.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jul 20, 2012)

lostdwarf said:


> Whoever this wanker turns out to be.  He should be hung, drawn and quartered and his name forgotten for the rest of time.
> Erase this looser.



May this bloody wanker rot in hell.  He has no right to exist on this planet.


----------



## rad140 (Jul 20, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> *sigh* and I bet he'll be out in 3 years due to "good behavior".
> 
> We really need to learn to punish criminals more, its always the same people.



Colorado has the death penalty.

I think it's interesting how discussions about tragedies always seem to veer off into something else entirely.  Here, it's about prisons/mental illness/metal detectors, on CNN it was pro-gun/anti-gun law people arguing over whether an armed bystander would have helped or caused more harm and on IGN it's about religion/atheism.


giavol said:


> Ok. Gun control wont work, but how can it be legal to buy an AK47? Who can think than owning such weapons is for protection.



I believe as long as it's semi-automatic it's okay.  I don't know.  The AK-variant they recovered had a capacity for 30 rounds in .223 but it's unknown if it was a semiautomatic or fully automatic.  He also had a shotgun (civilian legal) and 2 handguns.

EDIT: Wasn't an AK.  CNN and others reports it was some kind of AR-15 knock-off.  Same capacity and ammunition tho.


----------



## injected11 (Jul 20, 2012)

This is completely and utterly disgusting. I can't even fully wrap my head around it. This guy has got to go. Lock him up in prison, make sure the inmates know he opened fire on small children, then send in a mop to clean up what is left the next day.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> Ok. Gun control wont work, but how can it be legal to buy an AK47? Who can think than owning such weapons is for protection.


It depends on your definition of "protection" - some people get a simple gun to defend themselves from thugs, other people live in an imaginary world where World War 3 is upon us and they need to prepare.

The sensible solution would be to limit the caliber of handguns available to citizens to 9mm unless a citizen requires a higher-caliber weapon for work-related purposes, for example is a police officer and preferes it over his standard-issue.

As for rifles, only hunting ones should be allowed. Shotguns? Buck and rubber slugs only.

Automatic? No chance.


----------



## Fear Zoa (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> giavol said:
> 
> 
> > Ok. Gun control wont work, but how can it be legal to buy an AK47? Who can think than owning such weapons is for protection.
> ...


If I recall correctly ak-47's and other rifles are actually pretty easy to convert to full auto. Also bump fire stocks are legal which accomplish the same thing in a different way.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> If I recall correctly ak-47's and other rifles are actually pretty easy to convert to full auto. Also bump fire stocks are legal which accomplish the same thing in a different way.


What you're thinking about is a combat rifle. What I'm thinking about is a hunting rifle. Two different things.


----------



## yuyuyup (Jul 20, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> *sigh* and I bet he'll be out in 3 years due to "good behavior".
> 
> We really need to learn to punish criminals more, its always the same people.


This is America, I don't really know why you would assume he would ever be released.  We jail more people than anyone in the world including China.


----------



## KingVamp (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Humans aren't special - they're animals


Except we are since we have more things then they do, like the ability to reason and not just follow instincts.
Also despite people like the shooter(s) in this sad event, we have created great things that no other animal can't
possibility do.



I'm pming.


----------



## Fear Zoa (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Fear Zoa said:
> 
> 
> > If I recall correctly ak-47's and other rifles are actually pretty easy to convert to full auto. Also bump fire stocks are legal which accomplish the same thing in a different way.
> ...


Oh like single fire hunting rifles, my bad. The point still stands about combat rifles being easy to turn back to full auto though, they are designed that way then limited for civilian use as an afterthought.


----------



## giavol (Jul 20, 2012)

In other countries you have to go through a big hassle and spend thousand´s of $$$ to get a permit to own a hunting rifle.You also need to be member of a hunting club (and the existing members will judge if it is OK for you to own a gun).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

yuyuyup said:


> Fear Zoa said:
> 
> 
> > *sigh* and I bet he'll be out in 3 years due to "good behavior".
> ...


That's the problem. You jail them, but you don't do anything *with* them - they just sit on their asses. Utilize them, make them work for their own living, if they refuse, let them starve on bread and water.

Prison is not scary anymore - some people treat it like a commodity. Hell, I know of cases when poor people commit petty crimes just to get to jail because petty crime offenders go to relatively low-security prisons, these are giving them a *better standard of life than outside*. It's a pathological situation.


----------



## yuyuyup (Jul 20, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Is it me is is there just something messed up in the drinking water in Colorado? First Columbine and now this. Some sick fucks in that state.


If you're going to judge my state based on mass shootings, will you give us credit for the 12 years between massacres?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Except we are since we have more things then they do, like the ability to reason and not just follow instincts.
> Also despite people like the shooter(s) in this sad event, we have created great things that no other animal can't.
> possibility do.


Show me all those things you mentioned. I want irrefutable proof that animals only act upon instinct and humans follow reason only.

They're not physical - you *think* that animals follow instinct and people follow reason, but you never asked a dog for his point of view, have you?

You're a mammal, an advanced primate, get used to that thought.


----------



## jonesman99 (Jul 20, 2012)

chartube12 said:


> jonesman99 said:
> 
> 
> > When I first read about this story, all I could do was shake my head. This is just sad. What was the point of it all? Guess they are going to start installing metal detectors in movie theaters now.
> ...


In all honesty, I haven't been to a movie theater since last year. And not all movie theaters have metal detectors, old or new, from what I've seen at least.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Fear Zoa said:
> ...


True, it's entirely possible to convert them, but far easier to get a working full-auto on the black market so why bother?

Commiting a crime using a marked and registered weapon is retarded. Wepons used in crimes are usually either stolen or from the black market.


----------



## giavol (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Fear Zoa said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


And how do those weapons get on the black market. Were do they get weapons to sell on the black market?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> And how do those weapons get on the black market. Were do they get weapons to sell on the black market?


Smuggling from the far east - mostly post-USSR and China which have huge depots of weapons that see barely any use and nobody "misses" them if they disappear. Corrupt eastern generals and other heads of military and police departments like dollars and euro, you see. These are huge transactions - there's always the dark zone and if you dig deep enough, you will find it.


----------



## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Fear Zoa said:
> ...


stealing from the police


----------



## Jamstruth (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> And how do those weapons get on the black market. Were do they get weapons to sell on the black market?


Buy from place with little firearms control (possibly stolen), smuggle into United States, sell there. Also possibly just find somebody willing to sell you one without registering it (for a premium)


----------



## giavol (Jul 20, 2012)

Jamstruth said:


> giavol said:
> 
> 
> > And how do those weapons get on the black market. Were do they get weapons to sell on the black market?
> ...


Like the U.S.A?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> Like the U.S.A?


Please, don't be ridiculous. Weapons that can be purchased in stores are all marked and have a registered user - their rifling marks are collected and stored, they're portable evidence and "smuggling" them anywhere to sell them is writing your own sentence.


----------



## SSVAV (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> giavol said:
> 
> 
> > Like the U.S.A?
> ...



Still, for a madman whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible (since he booby-trapped his apartment too) and doesn't care about the outcome (both for him or the other people involved), the fact that weapons are registered is of no importance.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

SSVAV said:


> Still, for a madman whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible (since he booby-trapped his apartment too) and doesn't care about the outcome (both for him or the other people involved), the fact that weapons are registered is of no importance.


A "madman" will stab someone with a spoon if that's the only option, a "madman" is entirely capable of producing his or her own explosives with simple ingredients that are in circulation.

A baby could make gunpowder from a simple mix of sulphour, coal and saltpeter (niter) and I've already seen people make their own semi-automatic and automatic weapons. Restrictions like this do not affect "madmen" because "madmen" will kill anyways.

Besides, using the term "madman" in the context of careful planning, preparation and expert execution is not in place. There's "mad", also known as_ "I can see flying ponies"_ and there's "f*cked up in the head sick puppy", also known as _"I like your eyes. I will gauge them out and save them for later."_. I see a huge difference.


----------



## Jamstruth (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> Jamstruth said:
> 
> 
> > giavol said:
> ...


The USA has firearms controls. It has to have really serious firearms controls actually since owning a gun is legal there (in fact its a right). Its not as good as banning them outright but it gives the Police an easy way of tracing legally purchased guns. Any black-market one is a lot harder though since they'll have been sold without a registration, probably smuggled into the country.


----------



## giavol (Jul 20, 2012)

We can also ask the question how did they get as f*cked up as they are? I really do think that society has a role in it. I grew up in a small town of 20000-30000 people.And there was never a reason to lock the doors.In fact i remember once a my 65 ear old grand father caught  a guy in his yard steeling a chicken.He started talking and told him that he can com inside and he will give him some food.The guy ate and afterwards he offered to help around the house.


----------



## Zetta_x (Jul 20, 2012)

Great, that guy graduated from my university in 2010 and I may have seen him a few times when he went here. I was trying to figure out why he would do such a thing then it hit me:

Med school...shit does horrible things to you.

---

People get like this when they are fed up of humanity. These are intelligent people who are way above the average individual. They see the filth our society has came to. People have no tolerance at all, they must have the perfect lives. It makes me sick looking at how smug the average person is and how much perfection they need in their lives. Especially in the Medical field, so much competition. I'm glad my university didn't have a full fledge medical program, he may have been doing his PH.D. over here and me being in another PH.D. program would maybe have met him.


----------



## LightyKD (Jul 20, 2012)

yuyuyup said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > Is it me is is there just something messed up in the drinking water in Colorado? First Columbine and now this. Some sick fucks in that state.
> ...



OK, will do! *giggle*


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Jul 20, 2012)

What the fuck?


----------



## gusmento01 (Jul 20, 2012)

59 injured so far, this is terrible.


----------



## rizzod (Jul 20, 2012)

soulx said:


> Fucking disgusting. The mass shooting in Toronto _just_ happened a couple days ago and now this.
> 
> My condolences to the families affected by this.



This lady here was one of the victims that got killed. https://twitter.com/JessicaRedfield/status/226189043078152192 She tweeted 20 minutes before the film started, they say that he came in half an hour into the movie.

The reason I quoted you was because she was a survivor of the Toronto mass shooting. Her twitter is heartbreaking to read.
Her brother flew out to Colorado to find out what happend. Here was what he found out from a friend who was with her:




> @jordanghawi:
> 
> This is what I have been told by Brent, who was with my sister at the time of the shooting. This will be the only statement that I will make on the events surrounding what appears to be her death.
> 
> ...


----------



## jonthedit (Jul 20, 2012)

LOL!
Look at this! Tempers are turning into conspirators 

@OnTopic
Notice they didn't report the guy's race...


----------



## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 20, 2012)

lostdwarf said:


> Whoever this wanker turns out to be.  He should be hung, drawn and quartered and his name forgotten for the rest of time.
> Erase this looser.


WTF dude? It always disgusts me to see news about a horrific act, and then someone suggesting doing more awful things as the solution. That's not justice, it's borderline sociopathic behavior. It's people that think this way that commit crimes like this in the first place.


----------



## Zetta_x (Jul 20, 2012)

School email:

Today I join with you and others across the nation in expressing my profound sadness over the horrific shootings that occurred in Aurora, Colorado.  On behalf of the entire University community, I extend our deepest sympathy to the victims, their families, and all of those impacted by this tragedy.

The alleged shooter has been identified by police as James Eagan Holmes.  Mr. Holmes was a student at , graduating with honors in spring 2010 with a B.S. in neuroscience.

We have already received many media inquiries about Mr. Holmes.  If you are contacted by the media, please feel free to refer any calls or requests for interviews to  in the Office of Strategic Communications.
--

Drama day at my school yay


----------



## Dann Woolf (Jul 20, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> School email:
> 
> Today I join with you and others across the nation in expressing my profound sadness over the horrific shootings that occurred in Aurora, Colorado.  On behalf of the entire University community, I extend our deepest sympathy to the victims, their families, and all of those impacted by this tragedy.
> 
> ...



Neuroscience? Ironic, seeing as he's the one who should have someone tinker with his thinker.


----------



## bowser (Jul 20, 2012)

giavol said:


> I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.


I think it was Dave Chapelle.



Blaze163 said:


> Any idea what went wrong in this guy's brain yet?


Obviously his sanity module short-circuited.



chartube12 said:


> Reports keep changing. I see various news outlets saying 14/50, 12/20/, 16/60 and 18/75. So which is the truth?


Do the numbers really matter? What matters is that bad shit happened and this lunatic should be brought to justice. Fuck, he shot kids!


----------



## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 20, 2012)

Dann Woolf said:


> Neuroscience? Ironic, seeing as he's the one who should have someone tinker with his thinker.


It's actually not as strange as you might think. For example quite a few psychologists see psychologists themselves.


----------



## Dann Woolf (Jul 20, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> Dann Woolf said:
> 
> 
> > Neuroscience? Ironic, seeing as he's the one who should have someone tinker with his thinker.
> ...


Hmm. Reminds me of that phrase "the cobbler's children have no shoes".


----------



## The Milkman (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > If this guy gets off with an insanity plea that's when you know the justice system *1.works okay*. I don't care if you were insane or not in your right mind, you fucking kill someone, you deserve to *2.either be sent to jail for life or put in a mental hospital*. And no matter who you are, *3*.*NOBODY has the right to choose whether or not someone lives or dies*, you kill more then one person, you deserve worse. 4*.People were fucked up* in ancient times, 5*.people were still fucked up* in medieval times, 6*.People were getting better but still bad* in the colonial and victorian age. That's 7*.Definaetly not* how they should do it now.
> ...



1. No. If I kill your entire family, all your friends, or any other people you care for in anyway. How would you feel if I just got to sit in a cell that YOUR paying for, eating food that YOUR giving me are you going to tell me that on no level you would want me to suffer in some way?

2. No. thats like ignoring a problem instead of fixing it. What if we just took all the worlds problems the put them in a nice little box instead of fixing them?

3. Like the man who shot a baby point blank? Who did the baby ever hurt or kill, I bet the kid couldnt even TALK yet. But no, he choose who lives and dies, and whats his punishment for playing god? Food and shelter, not having to work to eat, even having the chance to get things such as education and therapy that a child who could actually grow up and DO something with it is deprived of. Oh, but at least we can hope he leaves and *DOESNT SHOOT ANOTHER BABY IN THE FACE*.  

4-6. >Implying were still not fucked up, whats changed since then? We know a little more, does that mean the basis of society suddenly is outdated and uneeded? Is an eye for an eye suddenly too brutal? How dare we want the eye of the man who took our own, who dare we want fairness.

7. Im not saying we should cut off the hands of thieves or put prositutes or adulters in chasity or kill bastard children. But its not that hard to say if a man kills someone the LEAST of his punishment should be a painless death.


----------



## DigitalDeviant (Jul 20, 2012)

trumpet-205 said:


> giavol said:
> 
> 
> > This is the reason why gun control is necessary! It is scary to know that you could go in a public place and get shot for no reason. I don´t thing that the guy had a beef with all of the persons present in that room. He was just plain crazy with a gun. It is a scary world if you can buy bullets at sales prices. I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.
> ...



Sadly people will always find a way to get a hold of guns and do wicked things with them. My thoughts are with the victims and their families. It would
be a good gesture for someone or Warner Bros. to set up a fund for the victims or scholarship' something positive in the wake of this tragedy.


----------



## DigitalDeviant (Jul 20, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Zantigo said:
> ...



I think its a question as citizens of the world that we must ask. If the death penalty is legal then should it be painless? If it isn't should we make the perpetrator suffer? To what degree? What are the ramifications of torturing those who make others suffer? Should we try it? I don't know.


----------



## AlanJohn (Jul 20, 2012)

I heard on the news that this guy has a high education degree, and his apartment is filled with booby-traps.
Woah, he sure does sound like a real-life super-villain...


----------



## Zetta_x (Jul 20, 2012)

We have news vans flooding my school; the guy just had to graduate here.



Spoiler


----------



## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Zantigo said:
> ...





Zantigo said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Zantigo said:
> ...


tl;dr I don't want to start another argument.   We share different opinions, end of story.


----------



## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

soulx said:


> Fucking disgusting. The mass shooting in Toronto _just_ happened a couple days ago and now this.
> 
> My condolences to the families affected by this.


Wow, I missed out on that news.  Horrible.  



LightyKD said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > There really are no winners and losers, no rights and wrongs in an argument like this because either way everybody loses - someone died and there is no solution and no suitable retribution since nobody can bring the victims back to life.
> ...


Agreed, but also I think a greater effort needs to be placed on the importance of things that were once taken for granted as a cultural achievement and source of civic pride -- rather than on politics and corporate profits. Those things we once believed were integral to America are being eroded by the mighty dollar and corporate lobbyists -- i think one of the biggest problems is how much money has been diverted from public education, and how poorly rewarded good teachers are in the crop of bad teachers.  As I said in a previous post, our whole culture is infected and this gives opportunity to breed this very kind of insanity, but the culture issue goes back a few generations now.
If America was a country worth a tenth of its own pride, maybe we wouldn't have disillusioned psychopaths trying to destroy it in these ways.



Foxi4 said:


> jonesman99 said:
> 
> 
> > When I first read about this story, all I could do was shake my head. This is just sad. What was the point of it all? Guess they are going to start installing metal detectors in movie theaters now.
> ...


Though I agree with youm I think the Justice system and police making procedural errors, is a bigger problem than actual police corruption, in the US.  Police corruption is a HORRIBLE problem in Mexico, I live right on the border with Juarez which is a major cartel border crossing -- but US police do get pensions -- they just aren't always trained enough to avoid making mistakes that let criminals get off on technicalities.



Zetta_x said:


> People get like this when they are fed up of humanity. These are intelligent people who are way above the average individual. They see the filth our society has came to.


I agree and find it heartbreaking that any talented mind would turn out this way.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

> Though I agree with youm I think the Justice system and police making procedural errors, is a bigger problem than actual police corruption, in the US.  Police corruption is a HORRIBLE problem in Mexico, I live right on the border with Juarez which is a major cartel border crossing -- but US police do get pensions -- they just aren't always trained enough to avoid making mistakes that let criminals get off on technicalities.


It's all a matter of funding in my opinion. More funding equals better training, better training equals better officers.


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## The Milkman (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> tl;dr I don't want to start another argument.   We share different opinions, end of story.



:/ But I spent a half hour articulating those arguements, you could atleast TRY.


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## weavile001 (Jul 20, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> We have news vans flooding my school; the guy just had to graduate here.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


go ask them to find a job for you


----------



## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> > Though I agree with youm I think the Justice system and police making procedural errors, is a bigger problem than actual police corruption, in the US.  Police corruption is a HORRIBLE problem in Mexico, I live right on the border with Juarez which is a major cartel border crossing -- but US police do get pensions -- they just aren't always trained enough to avoid making mistakes that let criminals get off on technicalities.
> 
> 
> It's all a matter of funding in my opinion. More funding equals better training, better training equals better officers.


Yeah, not necessarily even more funding overall, just better distributed funding, in my opinion.  The war on drugs is a major issue where I live (El Paso, being a major trafficking corridor) but some decriminalization (which could be both a state and federal matter) would free up a LOT of money for more important things than jailing kids caught with one too many joints in their stash.  Like police training, or even higher police pensions (I don't know that their salaries should be increased, I think increasing their retirement and other benefits for their families would be a stronger incentive to stay clean of corruption than simply paying them more.)


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## The Milkman (Jul 20, 2012)

DigitalDeviant said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > mrnintendo15 said:
> ...



That's why I said least. In my honest opinion the more people you kill, and by the means you kill them should decide the way your exacuted and how long you death is.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

exangel said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > > Though I agree with youm I think the Justice system and police making procedural errors, is a bigger problem than actual police corruption, in the US.  Police corruption is a HORRIBLE problem in Mexico, I live right on the border with Juarez which is a major cartel border crossing -- but US police do get pensions -- they just aren't always trained enough to avoid making mistakes that let criminals get off on technicalities.
> ...


Changes take time, of course. Even a treasury filled to the brim won't help if it's badly managed - I fully agree. You just need to have those lesser trained officers trained by other, more organized forces so that they can mimic the good habits and weed out the bad ones from their own units. Money definitely isn't all, but it helps. I'd say an exchange program between various departments all across the country would surely help, as well as an international exchange of officers. To combat organized drug trafficking as well as illegal immigration, the U.S and Mexico should work together.


----------



## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > tl;dr I don't want to start another argument.   We share different opinions, end of story.
> ...


 hahaha I actually did read it, I just like pissing people off.  You made a few good points there, but I still disagree with you.  Don't you hate it whenever you're talking to your friends on facebook or whatever and you type a really long story/response and they just say "tl;dr" or give a one word answer like "cool" or "yeah"?


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## SifJar (Jul 20, 2012)

jonthedit said:


> @OnTopic
> Notice they didn't report the guy's race...


Didn't report his hair or eye colour either. What's your point?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

SifJar said:


> jonthedit said:
> 
> 
> > @OnTopic
> ...


Curiousity or implied racism, pick your poison. 

*EDIT: *They sure have reported his race:







Sort of hard to miss the huge photo, eh?


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## SifJar (Jul 20, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Curiousity or implied racism, pick your poison.


I assumed the later, my point was to highlight this.

EDIT: I dunno if they should have released that image. That smirk will surely haunt the nightmares of the families of the deceased for years


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## The Milkman (Jul 20, 2012)

mrnintendo15 said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > mrnintendo15 said:
> ...


So your just avoiding the argument all together then? Alright, I'm gone.


----------



## mrnintendo15 (Jul 20, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Zantigo said:
> ...








  Lighten up man, I didn't mean for you to take it personally.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 20, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> mrnintendo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Zantigo said:
> ...


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## Zetta_x (Jul 20, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> Zantigo said:
> 
> 
> > mrnintendo15 said:
> ...



Prisons are overcrowded, I would think that it costs more keeping someone alive for the rest of their life than to just kill them? Where is your source?

The world is overpopulated


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 20, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Prisons are overcrowded, I would think that it costs more keeping someone alive for the rest of their life than to just kill them? Where is your source?
> 
> The world is overpopulated


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
Seriously man, take five minutes to do some research for yourself.

edit: I'll make it even easier for you:



> Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.
> The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.
> The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.
> The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.


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## DrOctapu (Jul 20, 2012)

There was no dead baby. A 3-month-old got injured but is recovering fine. Might've been teargas but that's just speculation.


----------



## InuYasha (Jul 20, 2012)

It's a double edged sword really,the majority of people would say kill the bastard which the idiot would be getting off easy,then theres the other side where basically he'll get whats coming to him in jail no doubt one way or another...


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## Foxi4 (Jul 20, 2012)

SifJar said:


> I dunno if they should have released that image. That smirk will surely haunt the nightmares of the families of the deceased for years


Yeah, it does look quite nasty given the circumstances, but that's the one the two news services I checked posted, so... yeah.



Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> I'll make it even easier for you:
> 
> 
> > Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.
> ...


I will show you a way to reduce that cost.

Do you know what bumps the cost so much? Years upon years of Death Row - the criminal is not immediately executed, it usually takes a year or two, sometimes more, before the execution takes place. Costs of Death Row are tallied up to the cost of the Death Penalty, costs of standard prison cells are not tallied up to the costs of life imprisonment, even though the cost is the same per day.

If you are trying to convince me that an injection of toxins is somehow more expensive than feeding, clothing, giving routine medical check-ups and overall care to a person for the entirety of his/her life then you should probably re-think what you're saying. The costs are high, but not because it's an expensive procedure - it's because the law allows people to whine and plea for years before the actual sentence is carried out.


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## exangel (Jul 20, 2012)

There's more complicated court/appeals procedures for the death penalty that aren't employed with a life sentence though and that also significantly adds to the cost.  His source is disappointingly legit.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
> 
> 
> > I'll make it even easier for you:
> ...


You should have read some of the info from the link I posted. The main reason it's so much more expensive are the court and appeals's process being much more costly. One study showed cases where the death penalty is sought cost around $70 million more of the states money than non-death penalty cases where the outcome was life or long-term imprisonment.

edit:


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> You should have read some of the info from the link I posted. The main reason it's so much more expensive are the court and appeals's process being much more costly. One study showed cases where the death penalty is sought cost around $70 million more of the states money than non-death penalty cases where the outcome was life or long-term imprisonment.


So, as I said, it's not the Death Penalty by itself that's expensive but the crude legislature behind it, isn't it? Or was that not clear? The right to appeal shouldn't always be given - in cases where the offender is guilty and it's clear as day, where you have multiple eye witnesses and camera feeds to back the claims of the persecution up, when there's the offender caught red-handed, the execution doesn't need to wait more than until after the original trial, which shouldn't take longer than 24 hours because there is no way in hell that one could somehow wiggle out of a situation like this.

The Death Penalty is not expensive, it's crude execution of this penalty that costs money.


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## exangel (Jul 21, 2012)

This just brings us back the the point that the justice system in the US is big problem in and of itself.  We are so many years and so many precendents tacked onto a basic system that started out pretty solid and after 230some years, is now a bloated beast of burden kept alive through transfusions of political leverage.

It really shouldn't cost taxpayers so much more to execute as opposed to imprison, but the way our government currently works, that's the unfortunate reality.

edit: Doesn't help that puritanism tainted the early American justice ideals, either.  Puritanism is really making a comeback under the guise of conservativism this year.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

It's not just the government that's at fault - the citizens have their own two cents in this issue.

Do you know how much money it costs to hire additional security whenever a mob of protesters storms a prison building in protest of the Death Penalty? How many protests like this have we seen throughout the years? How much money is wasted on conferences in defense of a decision that was made by a judge, how much money goes down the drain to keep the public calm just because one person has to be put down for what he or she has done?

We complain about high costs, but in a way, we increase them all by ourselves thinking that we're noble.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
> 
> 
> > You should have read some of the info from the link I posted. The main reason it's so much more expensive are the court and appeals's process being much more costly. One study showed cases where the death penalty is sought cost around $70 million more of the states money than non-death penalty cases where the outcome was life or long-term imprisonment.
> ...


Sorry, i misread what you were saying. But in cases like you're describing the process usually is much swifter and less costly, but those cases where the evidence is incontrovertible are very rare. People have been exonerated after being given the death sentence; if it wasn't for the time between the sentence and the execution they would have been murdered for a crime they didn't commit, and no matter how rare those instances are as well they cannot just be disregarded for the sake of saving money.


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## Linkiboy (Jul 21, 2012)

If you're suggesting to implement a system where you can execute a criminal immediately after conviction, even if it's "obvious", there is going to be a LOT of abuse.

The system fails a lot as it is. Don't make it even more exploitable.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> Sorry, i misread what you were saying. But in cases like you're describing the process usually is much swifter and less costly, but those cases where the evidence is incontrovertible are very rare. People have been exonerated after being given the death sentence; if it wasn't for the time between the sentence and the execution they would have been murdered for a crime they didn't commit, and no matter how rare those instances are as well they cannot just be dismissed for the sake of saving money.


In such cases the Death Penalty is rarely, if ever, used. There's Life Imprisonment for those cases with shreads of doubt, and it's easy to distinguish the ones with and without a shadow of a doubt.




Linkiboy said:


> If you're suggesting to implement a system where you can execute a criminal immediately after conviction, even if it's "obvious", there is going to be a LOT of abuse.
> 
> The system fails a lot as it is. Don't make it even more exploitable.


The system fails the other way around too. Meet O.J Simpson - the guy who killed his wife and her lover, got away with it and practically admitted it in his autobiography.

Not being able to take a person to court once the highest authority found said person not guilty even after new evidence surfaces is another cancer on your judicial system you should take care of, but I digress. My point is - no system is perfect, but some are more efficient than others. Yours isn't efficient - it costs too much, it overcrowds your prisons and it's filled with procedures that are not always necessary.

I'm not saying that a Death Penalty should be carried out due to circumstancial evidence. I'm saying that when there is no doubt, there is also no reason at all to wait.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, i misread what you were saying. But in cases like you're describing the process usually is much swifter and less costly, but those cases where the evidence is incontrovertible are very rare. People have been exonerated after being given the death sentence; if it wasn't for the time between the sentence and the execution they would have been murdered for a crime they didn't commit, and no matter how rare those instances are as well they cannot just be dismissed for the sake of saving money.
> ...


No, it's easy for a case to appear as though it was perpetrated by the accused without a shadow of a doubt. Cases were the evidence is actually incontrovertible almost never happen. I've taken a forensic science class and one of the main things we learned about is evidence can be misconstrued by prosecutors to the point that even a completely innocent man's words can be used to condemn him.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
> ...


I'm not saying that it can't, I'm saying that the convoluted system you currently use is not working correctly and needs to be revamped to speed up proceedings, case closed. We may stand on two oposite sides of the barricade, but we both very well realize that your Judicial system simply isn't performing anymore.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Actinopterygian Melospiza said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Ok, yeah, I certainly can agree that the US legal system is pretty awful and needs to be changed

edit: I think I was just a bit confused at what you were getting at the whole time, sorry about that


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Actinopterygian Melospiza said:


> Ok, yeah, I certainly can agree that the US legal system is pretty awful and needs to be changed


Please read my earlier posts in this thread - I said that the choice between Death Penalty and Life Imprisonment should be up to the sentenced offender, however Life Imprisonment would also mean that the offender is supposed to work for his own living within the prison walls, otherwise no commodities and minimal quality food rations await.

I hate to think that prisons all around the world (we're speaking civilized countries here) are funding paid vacation to criminals - it's not bed and breakfast, it's supposed to be punishment, and left and right I hear complaints coming from inmates, some of them ridiculous, such as "our break room has no DVD player, my family keeps on sending me movies that I can't watch!". I mean, really? That's a valid complaint? In reply, I would hand the guy a shovel and show him what space-time continuum means in practice - digging a hole from Point A till Midnight.


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## Alexander_86 (Jul 21, 2012)

in Denver they have death penalty?


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Alexander_86 said:


> in Denver they have death penalty?


Yes, we probably wouldn't be discussing it so feverently if they haven't.


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## Linkiboy (Jul 21, 2012)

> The system fails the other way around too. Meet O.J Simpson - the guy who killed his wife and her lover, got away with it and practically admitted it in his autobiography.
> 
> Not being able to take a person to court once the highest authority found said person not guilty even after new evidence surfaces is another cancer on your judicial system you should take care of, but I digress. My point is - no system is perfect, but some are more efficient than others. Yours isn't efficient - it costs too much, it overcrowds your prisons and it's filled with procedures that are not always necessary.
> 
> I'm not saying that a Death Penalty should be carried out due to circumstancial evidence. I'm saying that when there is no doubt, there is also no reason at all to wait.


I understand, but it's just not going to be plausible to do that in actuality. Who gets to decide what "no doubt" means? The same jury that acquitted OJ? Like you said, the system isn't perfect and what you're suggesting is a recipe for abuse.

"Not being able to take a person to court once the highest authority found said person not guilty even after new evidence surfaces" this was one of the reforms that America did back when it declared it's independence from Britain. If you have a system with double jeopardy, it's going to be abused, no matter how you implement it

I agree with you that reforms to the system need to be made, but I disagree strongly with your suggestions on how due to the above. Other developed countries with more efficient judicial systems don't even have a death penalty.


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## Alexander_86 (Jul 21, 2012)

Right I just wanted to know cuz no idea of that place. thanks.


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## Actinopterygian Melospiza (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I would hand the guy a shovel and show him what space-time continuum means in practice - digging a hole from Point A till Midnight.


lol, and that actually made me laugh out loud, I'm not just contributing to the overuse of the term "lol" because I chucked on the inside


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Linkiboy said:


> Err, should probably quote posts, this was from page 11...
> 
> I understand, but it's just not going to be plausible to do that in actuality. Who gets to decide what "no doubt" means? The same jury that acquitted OJ? Like you said, the system isn't perfect and what you're suggesting is a recipe for abuse.
> 
> "Not being able to take a person to court once the highest authority found said person not guilty even after new evidence surfaces" this was one of the reforms that America did back when it declared it's independence from Britain. If you have a system with double jeopardy, it's going to be abused, no matter how you implement it


Sure sweetie-plums. When new evidence surfaces, the case not only deserves but should be re-opened, wheras nowadays the only instance when a case can be re-opened like this, avoiding double jeopardy, is when the persecutor finds sufficient evidence to change the category of the offense, for example from "attempted murder" to "murder" when the victim dies in the hospital and such.

As for the first part - "no doubt" means "we caught you on camera, the whole town square saw you, you were arrested during the shooting, you sort of can't defend yourself - choose, death or life of hard work". Like I said, re-read my posts, I'm talking about an implementation of the Death Penalty that I previously proposed while you think about the implementation used during the French Revolution.


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## reshx (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah , i heard that a friend of mine was a victim in this incident .... she is in the hospital


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## exangel (Jul 21, 2012)

Linkiboy said:


> > The system fails the other way around too. Meet O.J Simpson - the guy who killed his wife and her lover, got away with it and practically admitted it in his autobiography.
> >
> > Not being able to take a person to court once the highest authority found said person not guilty even after new evidence surfaces is another cancer on your judicial system you should take care of, but I digress. My point is - no system is perfect, but some are more efficient than others. Yours isn't efficient - it costs too much, it overcrowds your prisons and it's filled with procedures that are not always necessary.
> >
> ...



I'd say a guilty plea, would be a start.  *Insanity category (mental defect, etc) pleas are an admission of guilt*, and whether consideration for imprisonment or execution is given should be up to the jury.  Usually with guidelines in place based on precedent.
"No doubt" would really have to do with what kind of defense is in place if there is a not guilty plea in the first place.  

(A regular guilty plea would not go through the same extensive court processes, that should be obvious.)

edit:




reshx said:


> Yeah , i heard that a friend of mine was a victim in this incident .... she is in the hospital



I am so sorry to hear that, my sympathies.


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## Zetta_x (Jul 21, 2012)

Lets start with the guy who did the shooting.

Death penalty with immediate death or not? Is it too expensive to kill him in a week or keep him alive for the rest of his life?


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## exangel (Jul 21, 2012)

I hope he just pleas guilty and gets multiple life sentences, knowing that losing a court battle would quite likely put him in death row.  The gravity of his crime would surely put him in a federal prison and he probably won't fare well, even if he does live long.
I personally think that the entire country would be better off if he just pleas guilty, so that no sensation comes of the trial, and the victims don't have go through the trauma of aiding prosecution.


..Honestly I think the guy should be executed immediately but realistically speaking that isn't the answer.


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## AngryGreek766 (Jul 21, 2012)

fry him, he shot at children. We dont need vermin like that on this planet.


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## AceWarhead (Jul 21, 2012)

AngryGreek766 said:


> fry him, he shot at children. We dont need vermin like that on this planet.


Once again, by doing/thinking this stuff, you are no better than him. You're fighting fire with fire, essentially.


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## Zetta_x (Jul 21, 2012)

To be honest, I would like to study his mind =(


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## RemixDeluxe (Jul 21, 2012)

http://news.blogs.cn...eople/?on.cnn=3





> {At least 12 people were killed and another 58 wounded when a gunman opened fire during an early Friday morning screening of the new Batman movie at an Aurora, Colorado, theater, Police Chief Dan Oates told reporters. (Earlier, police said 14 were dead and 38 wounded.)
> The heavily armed suspect has been identified as James Holmes, a 24-year-old Aurora resident who had been a doctoral student at the University of Colorado. He was arrested without putting up a fight at the theater moments after police arrived, Oates said.
> Chaos broke out during the showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" at the Century Aurora 16 theater when the shooting began, police and witnesses said. A man told CNN affiliate KUSA that people were confused when the shooting started because many believed the sound of gunfire was coming from the movie.
> According to Oates, Holmes' apartment housed a device with "incendiary devices, some chemical elements linked together with all kinds of wires."




I hope for the most part the wounded are ok. Noone deserved to have this happened to him. Certainly wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 21, 2012)

Had a friend who was in the theater when this happened. Scared the living shit out of her, she says she'll never go to another movie ever again.


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## BrightNeko (Jul 21, 2012)

There is a long going talk about it already in user news. Really horrible thing -_- puts batman into bad luck territory for me.


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## RemixDeluxe (Jul 21, 2012)

BrightNeko said:


> There is a long going talk about it already in user news. Really horrible thing -_- puts batman into bad luck territory for me.




Link please? I wouldnt have made a topic if I knew there was one already in existance.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jul 21, 2012)

RemixDeluxe said:


> BrightNeko said:
> 
> 
> > There is a long going talk about it already in user news. Really horrible thing -_- puts batman into bad luck territory for me.
> ...


http://gbatemp.net/topic/331027-14-reported-dead-20-injured-in-shooting-at-dark-night-rises-showing/


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## BrightNeko (Jul 21, 2012)

http://gbatemp.net/topic/331027-14-reported-dead-20-injured-in-shooting-at-dark-night-rises-showing/

same thing with the various news sources being talked about early on


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## MelodieOctavia (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm merging this topic with the original news post. I don't think we need two separate threads about this.


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## tlyee61 (Jul 21, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> Had a friend who was in the theater when this happened. Scared the living shit out of her, she says she'll never go to another movie ever again.


Good thing she wasn't injured.


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## shakirmoledina (Jul 21, 2012)

anger has no limits. ppl are not happy, solving this problem will (hopefully) solve the emotional crisis of people.


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## Blaze163 (Jul 21, 2012)

I've been reading through the comments about gun control and I've always been curious about that. In a way I can understand people feeling the need to protect themselves, even if there are better ways of doing it than a gun, since from what I've seen they only escalate the problem. But the comments about people wanting bigger and bigger guns because they think World War 3 is imminent....why are lunatics like that allowed to carry guns?

You want my idea on gun control? Only sell guns to people smart enough to use them only when necessary. Not people who want assault rifles over the fireplace just in case the 'Commies' attack. People so delusion and paranoid have no business being around heavy weaponry.

Personally I've always been against guns as a combat asset anyway. They're far too impersonal. The action has become too divorced from the consequences. You fire off a few rounds at someone, you don't see the results up close any more. Back in the old days when swords were the weapon of choice, you were up close and personal for every blow. You knew the consequencesof every action. You saw the lights leave your target's eyes, felt the tension in the air as you crossed blades. These days it's too easy to detatch yourself from the realities of battle. It's become more like a sport than a matter of life and death. A true warrior knows the reality of his actions. That's why gangster rappers that glorify guns and drugs piss me off. Having a gun doesn't make you 'hard'.


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## Zetta_x (Jul 21, 2012)

Here is the thing about gun control;

Yes, if we had enforced a greater gun control... this incident could have been prevented.

However, think back at all of the incidents where a civilian having a gun was actually a good thing and take those away. It's a double edge sword.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> Here is the thing about gun control;
> 
> Yes, if we had enforced a greater gun control... this incident could have been prevented.
> 
> However, think back at all of the incidents where a civilian having a gun was actually a good thing and take those away. It's a double edge sword.


How do you know that the accident could have been prevented if harsh gun control was in place? I haven't read a single article stating that the guns were registered and legal, I'm willing to wager that they were not.

Harsh gun control affects only those who want to legally buy firearms. I agree that gun control in the U.S is too lenient, but you have no guarantee that different regulations would prevent incidents like this. As I said, a madman will kill you with a spoon if there is no other option.

That said, selling submachine guns and combat rifles in stores is beyond me, automatic and high-caliber weapons should not be in circulation unless you pass additional psychological testing.


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## DJ91990 (Jul 21, 2012)

Yet another reason to just pirate the movies you want to see. You get to watch it at the safety of your home with an AK-47 held tight, just in case. But this is friggen terrible! Just goes to show you how much of a craphole the world has become as of late. First school shootings and now movie theater shootings!? What the duck man!? WHAT THE DUCK!?

Also, gun control only works on law-abiding citizens, not criminals. Unless your idea of "Gun Control" is a big red sign on the movie theater that says; "WARNING! STAFF OF THIS FACILITY IS ARMED WITH LOADED ASSAULT RIFLES AND ARE TRAINED TO AIM FOR THE KILL!"

If I had a city in America, I would require EVERYONE to have a gun! Even of a psychopath had a gun, they won't even dare to fire if everyone else had a gun! Even if he did, everyone would be armed and be able to exterminate the problem before multiple casualties occur!


edited because: -screw it! I can't get the Youtube function to work properly!


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## Zetta_x (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Zetta_x said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the thing about gun control;
> ...



Touche, I post just because I like to hear my keyboard rattle.

I couldn't even think of a situation where a civilian gun saved the day.

I realized how stupid I was for posting that, I don't have anything better to do and I post just for the sake of debating.


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## BlueStar (Jul 21, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I haven't read a single article stating that the guns were registered and legal, I'm willing to wager that they were not.



"All the weapons that he possessed, he possessed legally," Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said. "And all the clips that he possessed, he possessed legally. And all the ammunition that he possessed, he possessed legally."
http://abcnews.go.co...88#.UArvEKDaWfw

Same with Virginia Tech.  In fact spree killings tend to be carried out with legally owned guns.  The killers often have a clean criminal record and are the introvert types unlikely to have the connections to buy them illegally.  Not that they usually need to.


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## Sterling (Jul 21, 2012)

giavol said:


> This is the reason why gun control is necessary! It is scary to know that you could go in a public place and get shot for no reason. I don´t thing that the guy had a beef with all of the persons present in that room. He was just plain crazy with a gun. It is a scary world if you can buy bullets at sales prices. I cant remember what comedian once sad that bullets should be very expensive, but he was right, you need a gun for protection you get 5 bullets for 1000 $. It is for your protection after all.


No, gun control is fucking dumb. Most sane people treat guns with respect. You don't outlaw something because of a few nutcases.

EDIT: Apologies for the old quote, I only read a few pages, and I just couldn't let this one slip by.

This one's for Foxi4:


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## Strength (Jul 21, 2012)

How stupid were the people, they knew if u try to make an exit youl be shot, but they kept on trying to live when death awiats


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## gage astronomer (Jul 21, 2012)

I am a sociopath… I am also a former GBAtemp member… if you know or figure out who I am please keep it to yourself.
The main thing here to point out is that I lack empathy and for the past 15+ years have thought…and even at one point came very close to doing something similar. The world I saw revolved around me…I was the center and when I closed my eyes… everyone else just stopped…

I often wonder how many people there are out there like me who identify with this shooter or other shooters in the past and yet are currently functioning members of society.  It baffles me why nobody can see the obvious and instead focus on what the media and politicians want to shove down your throat. Unlike Columbine and unlike Virginia Tech this mass murder comes closest to home for me because while he had his guns I firmly believe that if he did not this day would still have occurred. A while back there was a story where a father took his kids into his home and chopped them up with a hatchet and the point here is that where there is a will there is a way. This mass murder had the knowledge of explosives and chemicals and for whatever reason chose to get up close and personal rather than just blow the theater up for a racking death count. If he wanted to though…he probably could have.

So let’s pause for a moment here and get to the point. Gun control… like I said if there is a will there will be a way. Whether we are talking about hatchets or explosives or guns. Someone earlier said something along the lines of, “Why do we not have a story of one of our armed citizens ending this shooter’s life?” Well being a legal concealed gun owner I can tell you that when I go to eat there is a sign outside that says, “No guns allowed.” A girl was raped on her way to her car from campus… her gun was in her car because gun’s are not allowed…imagine 15 steps away from possible salvation yet being a law abiding citizen wrecked her life. You go to watch Batman and leave your gun in the car… too strict of gun laws stop you from protecting yourself from these criminals yet they go where they please and do what they want.

Now let’s get to the solution or at least the possibility of one. The problem in America is the fifty dollar band-aid. Besides growing up as a sociopath I also have PTSD and MDD which I did not know any of this until I was in my late 20’s because I could never afford to go to the doctor. Let’s be honest I had a hunch but when I started taking my meds and I realized the world did not revolve around me…it blew my mind…It was like I was a horse and someone took of my blinders for the first time. However America’s health system is expensive. $200 to therapist, $250 for my psychiatrist, and about $400 for meds a month. Honestly as screwed up as I am/was? I think I should see a doctor weekly (at least the therapist) but in order to stay sane… well really how many can afford such a thing. So minutes after the shooting we have Bloomberg on his soapbox wanting a call for better gun control… Terrorist of 911 used box cutters to end a little fewer than 3000 lives, Timothy McVeigh used explosives to kill 168 people, the Boston Stranger killed 13 with his nylons…as I said in the beginning… if you are messed up in the head enough to want to do these things you will find a way and banning guns will not stop them.  Allowing these people to afford to get the medical help they need is the solution…you talk about a “trigger” something to push someone over the edge…image you’re a sociopath and on meds because your job offers great medical insurance but do this economy you lose your job…trigger….and then you lose access to your doctors and medicine…. That is not even a trigger, that is your body going into shock because you’re not supposed to go off your meds cold turkey… want to know a secret… I have had two doctors that I stopped seeing where they have not followed up with me to make sure I was still medicated…and they know all my dark and dirty secrets. Fixing the health care system in America so people can get the help they need should be priority number one if you really want crap like these to be reduced. I do realize that not all of America’s deranged would have gotten the help they needed but you have to ask yourself, what if they could…  if they wanted to?


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## BlueStar (Jul 21, 2012)

gage astronomer said:


> too strict of gun laws stop you from protecting yourself from these criminals yet they go where they please and do what they want.



That'll be why more guns equals improved safety from guns.

Oh, wait, it's the exact opposite because the theory doesn't work at all in practice.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 21, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read a single article stating that the guns were registered and legal, I'm willing to wager that they were not.
> ...


Thank you for the link, I did not know that.


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## AceWarhead (Jul 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


It's kinda crazy that such weapons can be bought legally. Those are pretty dangerous things.


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## Foxi4 (Jul 22, 2012)

Sterling said:


> This one's for Foxi4:


+10 points for Griffindor Sterling for recognizing the reference I had to use twice for someone to notice it. 

Continuing the chat though, yes, it is true that registered firearms are rarely used in criminal activity simply because they're registered - it takes a madman who doesn't care whether he/she's caught or not to disregard this, they're mostly used in self-defence and I assure you that they are useful.

Gun control where I live is ridiculously harsh, in fact, there are a few paradoxical cases where the burglar gets killed while breaking and entering someone's house and the person who defends the house stands before court because "they have to decide whether lethal force was the only answer". For god's sake - someone came into your house wearing a ski mask, surely his intentions weren't to greet you in the neighbourhood and bring cake, and in stressful situations like this things "happen". The burglar should know that the owner of the house may be inside and he or she will not be happy of his presence, eh?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Everybody has the right to defend themselves and their own property, and if it takes firearms to make someone feel safe and comfortable then so be it. Low-caliber guns that are non-automatic to minimize the possibility of unintended casualties, sure, but weapons none the less.




AceWarhead said:


> It's kinda crazy that such weapons can be bought legally. Those are pretty dangerous things.


I agree. I fail to understand why combat rifles are in active circulation for "anyone" without a good reason or proper weapons training and psychological testing beforehand. There should be limitations of what kinds and what amounts of weapons a single household (not citizen) can posses - I mean, two handguns, a combat rifle and a shotgun? This isn't self-defense anymore, and an AK-47 is not exactly a hunting rifle - it's a combat rifle. Handguns (low-cal) I can understand, shotguns too since you actually use those in hunting (unless it was an auto-shotgun) but a friggin' combat rifle? Sold to a student? Please.




BlueStar said:


> Oh, wait, it's the exact opposite because the theory doesn't work at all in practice.


You're not taking one thing into account. A simple equation. Size of the country / Average wealth of a citizen Ratio. Weapons aren't cheap, plus the more people the more potential firearms users. Need I add that the U.S.A is quite wealthy and quite huge?


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## BlueStar (Jul 22, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> You're not taking one thing into account. A simple equation. Size of the country / Average wealth of a citizen Ratio. Weapons aren't cheap, plus the more people the more potential firearms users. Need I add that the U.S.A is quite wealthy and quite huge?



You realise that the murder stats are per 100,000 people and the amount of households with guns is a percentage, which means the size of the country is indeed taken into account?  And that just because weapons are expensive in the US, it doesn't mean they're equally expensive in other countries?

And how is the _reason_ (cost, legal restrictions, culture) for the amount of gun ownership relevant for a graph that's simply showing that more legal guns = more gun murders, in contradiction of the theory that if people have legal guns it deters criminals and allows people to defend themselves, making society safer?


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## DSGamer64 (Jul 22, 2012)

RupeeClock said:


> Hadrian said:
> 
> 
> > It's a damn shame that a total waste of life felt like they had to do this to people who just wanted to watch a film and have a good time.
> ...



The whole story sounds like a slightly larger scale version of the attack on a block party full of people earlier in the week in Toronto. Then again, that was gang motivated and it was two dudes shooting at eachother with a few dozen people caught in the crossfire. No idea what the motivation for this attack is, but it's disturbing what I have been hearing. The bastard had bombs in his car and in his house, like what kind of people sell bombs or even things used to make bombs? Sounds like the dude is completely fucked in the head.



Zetta_x said:


> Here is the thing about gun control;
> 
> Yes, if we had enforced a greater gun control... this incident could have been prevented.
> 
> However, think back at all of the incidents where a civilian having a gun was actually a good thing and take those away. It's a double edge sword.



I can't think of any situation where a civilians having guns in this day and age makes sense. The problem is the logic of gun ownership, sorry but there shouldn't be a constitutional right to own a gun, however gun ownership should be a method of protection so long as you aren't concealing a weapon. I figure these days, everyone should have a pistol in their bed side drawer in case of a robbery, and with all the gangs out there these days it doesn't hurt to protect yourself. That said, you shouldn't be walking around in public with a gun, unless all bets are off and everyone is allowed to carry a gun, at which point I'd say everyone should carry a gun exposed in a holster. Guns for protection makes sense, guns for anything else is fucking stupid. No one should be allowed to own rifles unless they are legally using them for hunting.



BlueStar said:


> gage astronomer said:
> 
> 
> > too strict of gun laws stop you from protecting yourself from these criminals yet they go where they please and do what they want.
> ...



That's a pretty old statistic sheet now. Gun crime in Canada I can tell you has gone up in the last 12 years. Hopefully before too long all these gangster kids are just going to kill one another off though, it's been a tough summer here in Ontario for gun crimes.


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## giavol (Jul 22, 2012)

I don´t think that a gun protects yo more than a stunning dart gun. And if the normal population would not own guns than fewer gangsters would do armed robbery. Because you would get less punishment if you robed somebody with an empty gun. A regular sane robber wants your money not to kill you. I would make guns and car horns illegal.


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## Sterling (Jul 22, 2012)

@[member='DSGamer64']

I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Civilians owing guns is a good thing in my mind. The founding fathers had good reasons for the second amendment. Sure, there are nutcases who hold no value in human life. However, I fully believe that if someone there had a concealed weapon, there wouldn't be so many injured and dead. Senseless violence like this is why I'll soon be applying for my own hidden handgun liscense. Next time I could be the person who'd save lives.

At any rate, stricter gun control may or may not be the answer. Sure, it could be tightened, but too much and people will start to turn to illegally obtained arms. That would be bad.


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## epicdude17 (Jul 22, 2012)

God damnit. This is just sad. I want to see this movie too. This better not happen again. Anyone know if in the past repeated actions have occured from other people?


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## hatredg0d (Jul 22, 2012)

someone can mow down 25 people with their legal owned car, does that mean we need stricter vehicular laws? no. IMO same applys for guns.


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## BlueStar (Jul 23, 2012)

hatredg0d said:


> someone can mow down 25 people with their legal owned car, does that mean we need stricter vehicular laws? no. IMO same applys for guns.



Car are designed for transport, guns are specifically designed to kill.  You could use the same argument to say backpack bombs and IEDs should be legal.

Or just about anything.  "People could kill themselves by drinking bleach.  You gonna make bleach illegal?  No?  Then why make crack illegal?"


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## Minox (Jul 23, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Senseless violence like this is why I'll soon be applying for my own hidden handgun liscense. Next time I could be the person who'd save lives.


Last time I checked a gun was designed to take lives, not save them. Sure, a gun could possibly help protect someone in rare occasions but at the same time - the more guns that are in circulation the more likely it is that said guns will be misused.


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## Hadrian (Jul 23, 2012)

Zetta_x said:


> However, think back at all of the incidents where a civilian having a gun was actually a good thing and take those away. It's a double edge sword.


What's wrong with tasers, tranq darts etc?


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## MelodieOctavia (Jul 23, 2012)

Hadrian said:


> Zetta_x said:
> 
> 
> > However, think back at all of the incidents where a civilian having a gun was actually a good thing and take those away. It's a double edge sword.
> ...



If a person is on heavy drugs, that person can easily shrug off a TASER shot, and tranq darts take time to take effect, by that time you could already be dead.


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## Sterling (Jul 23, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> Sterling said:
> 
> 
> > Senseless violence like this is why I'll soon be applying for my own hidden handgun liscense. Next time I could be the person who'd save lives.
> ...


Doesn't matter to me. I won't be pointing a gun at another human unless lives are at stake. Just because something is designed to take lives doesn't mean you can't use it to save them. I live by a code, and whatever the person wielding the weapon wants is just what the weapon does.


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## reshx (Jul 23, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> Hadrian said:
> 
> 
> > Zetta_x said:
> ...


wow , i didnt knew this.
but never mind , my friend who was shot in this "event" already got back from the hospital.


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## DSGamer64 (Jul 23, 2012)

Sterling said:


> @[member='DSGamer64']
> 
> I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Civilians owing guns is a good thing in my mind. The founding fathers had good reasons for the second amendment. Sure, there are nutcases who hold no value in human life. However, I fully believe that if someone there had a concealed weapon, there wouldn't be so many injured and dead. Senseless violence like this is why I'll soon be applying for my own hidden handgun liscense. Next time I could be the person who'd save lives.
> 
> At any rate, stricter gun control may or may not be the answer. Sure, it could be tightened, but too much and people will start to turn to illegally obtained arms. That would be bad.



I won't argue with that, but many reasonings I see from people around the Internet for owning guns is exactly what the 2nd Ammendment states, to protect the people from the government and invaders. Those ideologies are a bit old and anyone who thinks that even today, the American government would send it's army on it's own people is absolutely nuts.

I don't believe in permits to own concealed weapons, and at least having an exposed weapon would make any criminal think twice about attempting to rob you or shoot you. That said, gun regulation in America seems to be a huge problem, as well as proper enforcement of gun permits, consistent inspection to ensure that legal guns are stored properly and more thorough screening of applicants are things that could be done to control guns better.

Gun control does work, in many countries that do have gun regulations including Canada and the UK, there is not only a considerably lower gun ownership percentage, but there is also a lower gun related murder rate compared to the USA. Yes, you can make the case that there is a considerably larger population in America compared to either country, or even combined there is both a lower ownership rate and gun related death rate compared to the USA. I can't find the source, but I was reading on another forum yesterday that there were something like 240 million legally owned guns in America at last check, it's something like 65 people in every 100 own at least one gun and gun related deaths are something like 84%. Regardless, the numbers were pretty high and very shocking.

Banning guns outright isn't the solution, I'd certainly feel safer walking around with a pistol on me just for protection, but there is ultimately a very fine line that has to be walked when it comes to the morality of carrying a gun for protection, as it's nearly impossible to determine whether someone is going to go nuts and start a killing spree or not.


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## Sterling (Jul 24, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> Sterling said:
> 
> 
> > @[member='DSGamer64']
> ...


No kidding. Especially since this guy had no record or anything. He had extensive explosive knowledge too. I'm all for some gun control, but I don't trust the government to do it right; they screw up everything else.


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