# CFW and Piracy. What do you think about them?



## Deleted User (Sep 20, 2020)

So. CFW. A lot of people should know already what I'm talking about, but just in case. CFW (Custom Firmware) is an unofficial new or modified version of firmware created by third parties to to provide new features or to unlock hidden functionality. In Video Games consoles, normally is an altered version of the system firmware, also now as OFW (Original Firmware. Also, thanks Wikipedia) And, I suppose that all of you knows what piracy its. This takes me to, a, kinda of a big dilemma. 

The problem is that, a lot of times, people thinks that the only reason to get CFW is piracy. This has give a bad image to the homebrew community in general, even if a lot of the members there hate piracy. As we know, CFW can be obtained for a lot of reasons, like for emulation, homebrew, games fixes (Not counting cheats), custom apps, custom themes, etc. But, from the other hand, there is the people that only want CFW to install games without paying. Piracy is a pretty big dilemma in general. There is a lot of different opinions about if it affects or not a company, and depends a lot in your morals. For me, I'm in a grey area. Sometimes the economy of a country is going really bad and you can't buy new games cause they are super expensive. Or sometimes you are going bad economically speaking and you just want to feel better playing a new game. For example, here in Mexico, I have found triple A games at 80 or even 100 dollars. And yeah, I'm not a saint. I had pirated some game because they were super expensive, but when I can, I try to buy them legality. Specially Indie games, cause I know this people or little companies normally don't have the economic security as a company like Nintendo. And no, I'm not saying that cause of my economic situation piracy is automatically good. Like I said before, it depends of your morals to think if its good/acceptable sometimes or its always bad, and that is what I want to hear. So, I will ask a few questions: 

- ¿Do you use CFW?
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?

And please, be as polite as possible and respect each other while debating. Thank You


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## antiNT (Sep 20, 2020)

-Do you use CFW?
Yes
-Do you think CFW is wrong?
No ? It's not illegal to install a custom background lmao
-Do you think piracy is wrong?
Yes it is, unless you really can't afford video games because of your country's economy (ex: Brazil)
-Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. I know some people that would install CFW just to be able to use a PS4 controller with their Nintendo Switch


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## Alexander1970 (Sep 20, 2020)

Hello.

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Yes,I think so.
 
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
No,I want to do what I like with my Device. 
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Hmm,I have to ask Great Grandfather Jean Laffite.....
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Same,I have to ask Great Grandfather.......

Thank you.


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## Lacius (Sep 20, 2020)

Do you use CFW? Yes.
Do you think CFW is wrong? No.
Do you think piracy is wrong? Yes, but I do it anyway.
Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? Yes.


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## godreborn (Sep 20, 2020)

do you use cfw?

yes, on every system except the switch.

do you think cfw is wrong?

no, as it allows you to do things that should be possible to begin with, such as altering or backing up saved data.

do you think piracy is wrong?

not really.  I pirate on every system.  the problem with piracy, at least as it relates to me, is that I find no incentive to play those games, so most games remain unplayed.

do you think it is wrong to automatically relate cfw and piracy?

yes, though I'm sure most people on cfw pirate.  most doesn't mean all like the big three seem to believe.  to get around that belief (was banned on the ps3 three years ago), the companies will include the term "unsupported software" in case you're one of the few who doesn't pirate but uses homebrew.


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## battlecatsahead (Sep 20, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
yes
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
no, it allows people to learn to code for their favorite consoles
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
yes and no, i think if you have never paid for a game in your entire life, and dont plan to =, yes its wrong, but if you pirate games and buy games as frequently, then i think it isnt that wrong
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
yes, people who use cfw, dont always support piracy


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## Darkshadow1997 (Sep 20, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
I was it on my 3DS.
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
No, Because it allowed my 3DS to be region free with in turn helped me play games from other regions.
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
I am mixed on this. I used to pirate games all the time as a kid but nowadays I buy games to support the developers but in rare cases I download pirate games. So I can not give an honest opinion on this.
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes, I used CFW for region free support and Custom themes. The switch is everything similar to my CFW 3DS but without the option of themes (Just two basic themes.). I do not get why People think CFW = Piracy as I had a non modded PS2 that was capable of playing burned games.


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## IC_ (Sep 20, 2020)

I agree, piracy is just a side effect of CFW existing and it kind of gives a bad image to the homebrew community, in my opinion CFW should be used to run homebrew software (including your own software), mod the OS and games to do nice things that you normally wouldn't be able to do, cheat in your games if you really want to ruin the game for yourself (but please don't ruin it for others), and make backup copies of your legally owned physical games (because who trusts those optical discs to last forever?). But when there is a way to run unsigned code then someone will figure out how to use it for piracy and that's also what most other people will use it for.


Lang_Kasempo said:


> - ¿Do you use CFW?
> - ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?


1 - Yes, except on my stupid Nintendo Switch because I'm not ready to lose access to online services yet.
2 - No.
3 - Yes, but I also think that some companies don't deserve the money so I avoid directly giving money to them by buying used physical copies. Sometimes you have no choice if for example Nintendo is dumb enough to release a game for a limited time or the thing is old and just not available anymore.
4 - Yes, but when most people use it only for piracy then most people will also think that it's meant for piracy.


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## Nobody_Important4u (Sep 21, 2020)

Lang_Kasempo said:


> - ¿Do you use CFW?
> - ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?


1. Yeah i use it on my ds and when i buy a 3ds and Wii i am going to use it too
2. No, there's nothing wrong about that. If you bought something it is yours and you have the RIGHT to do whatever you want with it, it's yours after all.
3. There's no straith answer to that!
3.1 first is the definition of piracy to me it is: if you consciously chose to download the software instead of buying it and you hurt the developer when he doesn't deserve it you in fact pirated something.
3.2 so the most important part is that if i can't buy it legally, i can do whatever i want, it's not piracy if i can't give money do developer, but if the software is rerealised and i can buy it then i am in fact commit piracy when downloading the software (learn your lesson Nintendo).
3.3 when the software is avaible but it has been there for a longer amount of time then it depends:
1. If it is a indie title, DON'T i have a lot of respect for these guys and you should too, making game like that is hard work and those people deserve that money.
2. If it's not indie than it's up too you, if you like what the developer does you should support them but you aren't forced to do anything.
3.3 If the game Has been realised recently you shouldn't download it and you are in fact hurting developers and you are commiting piracy very clearly unless the developer is clearly doing something wrong like doing a half-assed job and being greedy or putting shitty drms in.
Addendum: you get extra pass if you live in a shitty country like brazil or something arabic country or if you are just poor.
4. Yes, majority of people use it for piracy but there are people who don't and i respect that so don't group people like that, ok?


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## Urbanshadow (Sep 21, 2020)

¿Do you use CFW?
Yes.

¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
Yes but not in the common sense. CFW is a natural response of people for being locked down. Every system should have a marketplace where everybody should have the possibility to publish it's home developed applications *for free* with a reduced SDK and after a probing process. If you want to develop with the full potential of the system, you are entitled to pay for the full SDK. Android does it. IOS does it. It's going fairly well. I should not be using a CFW to get apps from people to run on my system if I chose to do so. In that specific sense, using a CFW is wrong, I should not need to do that to get to do what I want. Jails are bad. Jailbreaks are for jails. Don't put me in a jail, I wont need a jailbreak. 

¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Yes. I will not dwelve with technicalities, but I should be entitled to dump my original games in my system (signed just for my system or whatever floats your boat, idc) so I can preserve the original media: cartridges, optical media or whatever in good shape. And be able to play with my dump whenever I want. The paywall should be obtaining the physical media. If I pay through a store, I should be entitled to recieve the physical media. I'll play when it gets home.

¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. A CFW is not a mean to run pirated games for the system. A CFW is a mean to run unsigned software. Again, we should not need to use it, we should be able to ask big N to probe and sign home developed applications FOR FREE. That's how you build a strong community foundation around a system. We should not need to develop CFWs but even if we do, CFW doesn't _have to _implement ways to enable piracy. Damn, we got some projects running and alive on 3DS of CFW allowing to run homebrew without disabling the system security, even piracy related homebrews like FBI wont work there. So yes, I think relating both is wrong but for the third time in a row, CFW is just a natural response for being locked down. We should not have been locked down in the first place.


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## Methanoid (Sep 29, 2020)

Do you use CFW? Yes.
Do you think CFW is wrong? No.
Do you think piracy is wrong? Yes but buy a game if its good and I do that...
Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? Yes, there are a few people who don't use CFW for piracy (about 0.0001% of them)


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## DinohScene (Oct 5, 2020)

*- ¿Do you use CFW?*

Yes, Everything that can have a CFW has a CFW one way or another.

*- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?*

No, it significantly improves the normal FW.
Allowing for backups to be made, easy save backups on locked down systems, ability to load testing homebrew to verify everything is working correctly.
There's a lot of upsides to having CFW installed.

*- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?*

Yes, pls don't pirate.
It hurts the video game industry and isn't justifiable in any way.

*- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*

98% of your avarage user associates CFW with piracy so it's natural to relate the two.
I could not care less if I got a device with CFW ability but no piracy.


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## The Real Jdbye (Oct 5, 2020)

I don't feel bad about pirating because I buy the vast majority of the games I actually _want_ to play and the ones I pirate are mostly ones I wasn't sure about and wasn't willing to pay for. Often times I end up buying them anyway on sale on Steam if I like them. Of course, that doesn't justify piracy, but I feel it keeps my morals intact.

I usually buy indie games (they're cheap enough), I'm just not willing to drop much more than $10 on a game I don't even know if I'll like. Might stretch that to $20 if I like what I see from gameplay but feel like I need to try it out to know. I can pretty quickly tell from gameplay if I'm going to love a game, or hate it, or somewhere in the middle, and it's the "somewhere in the middle" part where my purchase decision depends on the price.

I don't think it's a secret to anyone that 90% of CFW users would not bother with it if piracy wasn't possible. Homebrew is a nice bonus, but in the end, that gets used for piracy too (through emulation) as there is little original homebrew made for consoles these days. Still, there is nothing wrong about wanting full access to the hardware you own. That's why most of the homebrew devs do what they do - not for piracy. And why often the first thing we see or hear about running on a new console is Linux (was the case for the 360, and the Wii U, and the Switch, and probably others)


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## Iamapirate (Oct 5, 2020)

CFW is great. I use it and I like it. 

I do think piracy is wrong, especially with games you can still purchase legitimately and brand new. When possible, I like to support the developers of the games I like to play. When we are talking about games only available on the used market, I see no issue with piracy.


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## RedBlueGreen (Oct 5, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Yes, on a couple of my consoles.
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
No. It's completely possible to make one without signature patches, and they're out there, but they're not popular because it also stops the user from installing homebrew packages.
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
I'm indifferent. But you should support games and developers you like.
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. Piracy existed ages before CFW (You could pirate ZX Spectrum games very easily IIRC using tapes, and you could easily burn games for the early Dreamcast models). It's like saying blank CDs and DVDs are bad because they can be used to pirate things. But they  also have legitimate uses.


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## PalomPorom (Oct 5, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Yea. Often times I won't use a stock system until it's hackable.. Stock software is just boring to me
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong? 
Not at all. It makes OFW better and more customizable. 
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Not really. If I can't afford a game and I'm not going to buy it anyway then it doesn't hurt anyone for me the play the game. I'm a janitor so I don't make much money. $3 a month for vpn beats $65 for the game I'm not even sure I'm going to like. 
I buy what I like though. I've just been burned too many times in the past. 
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Definitely. Atmosphere doesn't include sig patches, NTR didn't have sig patches. CFW often times leads to piracy but that's just a side effect. Look at the ps3 scene. Screenshot functions, temperature and fan speed control, loading all your games from usb or internal straight from the xmb no need for disc swapping, all the Rebug cfw features. The list goes on.
Most of the time I'm only hacking the console to back up my save files or use simple ftp homebrew. Playing a backup copy of your game also prevents wear making your physical copy more valuable.

Can't tell you how many times I've pirated a game that led to me buying it. My switch got banned before the xenoblade dlc came out so I had to pirate it to get the product I already paid for.

Also piracy preserves games as they age. Who can really afford the prices that retro consoles and games go for?
Nintendo didn't offer a 60FPS Xenoblade mod, homebrew devs did thanks to cfw

Sent from my toaster running Rebug


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## zxr750j (Oct 5, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW? I do 
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong? I don't
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong? Yes, you should support the makers of the games and the industry. I own 2 switches, 1 with cfw and a legit one. I like to play pokemon and I buy the games and play them paid online. I might use cfw to hack a save to insert a unobtainable poke you can only get if you preorder a movieticket in japan... I also like the freedom to copy a savegame to a save location of my choice. I also like the whole technical background behind the hacks and to see if I can do it myself. 
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? No, without cfw there's no piracy on a switch


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## AkiraKurusu (Oct 10, 2020)

Lang_Kasempo said:


> - ¿Do you use CFW?
> - ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?


Huh, the Spanish upside-down question mark; don't often see those...

- No. It allows me to locally backup my game saves, create a FTP link between my 3DS/Switch and my laptop, and put custom themes on both systems. It also allows me to run modded games (...except for Xenoblade 2; haven't been able to figure out why it rejects edited files).
- Piracy...it really depends. Since games are quite expensive in Australia - costing $70-$80 for Switch games, and on the PlayStation 4 Store I've seen $100 _base_ games like Ghost of Tsushima (with deluxe editions costing more) - I'd like to be able to try shit out before actually buying it. Also, for 3DS games, I've already bought plenty; why shouldn't I be able to convert them into .cia files, copy them onto a different handheld, and have access to them again?
- Yes, because CFW isn't solely about piracy whatsoever; it's got a lot more to offer. 3DS plugins, Luma cheats, EdiZon cheats, save backups, file transfers, being able to browse and move and rename SD card contents directly from the system, LayeredFS...


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## Spidey_BR (Oct 10, 2020)

I do think that piracy is a big driver on the development of CFW, but I don't think CFW development is wrong.
I understand how using software developed by businesses and other people is wrong, they do their work to gain the profit from the selling of such software. But abusing this "right" by selling it only on specific stores, requiring internet connection to use it, hiding multiplayer behind proprietary servers even when the players host the games anyway and specially artificially limiting availability, for instance by shutting down a store or server that either costs basically nothing or has still a big community using it is also wrong.

I can't think of a way to equalize being able to lend a physical game/cd/dvd/bluray with digital purchases, even when going digital is more expensive than physical (can't buy second hand, can't buy on sales from various resellers, only on sales from the one and only reseller who gatekeeps the games). I don't think piracy is wrong per se, I think of it as sharing but using the internet. Maybe if that was a way to lend digital files in communities, but even that would be considered piracy anyway by the big companies.


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## Deleted User (Oct 13, 2020)

-Yeah, on my 3ds
-nope, you paid for the console, you should have whatever FW you want
-nope, most of the time, anyone pirating a product wouldnt buy it if they werent able to pirate it, my morals are that i will buy steam games, because valve has been the only major gaming storefront who has shown interest in my country, i try to avoid pirating games, and will often end up buying them even if i do, i used to buy 3ds games, but they are too much of a hassle in my area, that's all videogame-wise, i could ramble for hours if you asked me about music/series/movies
-yeah, CFW is a comunal effort, everyone has their motives to contribute, some may be against piracy, but its undeniable that some's goals are piracy, without pirate-driven people contributing CFW would take longer to develop, or possibly never come out due to not enough people working on it


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 13, 2020)

the problem is, that people only want to mod their  consoles to play free games without buying them, and to go online and cheat, very few people will actually use it for non piracy purposes, like media, emulators, homebrew games, the biggest thing is that android smartphones and tablets exists, back before then homebrew apps and code on consoles was more common, because a console was a computer that was cheap but had a good power to cost ratio


i blame all the people on youtube who copy and paste tuts : hack your sony/ninty/m$ console, and get free games!

this doesn't help

i'm not against piracy, it's going to happen, but I will say you should pay the developers and engineers, stop being a complete thief, you don't know how much they have to do to get  the game and console in your lap, how many sleepless nights debugging and re-tweaking

how can one be a fan of a company if they just steal their products and don't pay for them? that's just greed and an ego problem


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## Jayro (Oct 13, 2020)

I voted yes, because they obviously ARE related, but CFW isn't just for piracy, users like me believe we should have total freedom over our purchased hardware. CFW gives us that freedom. At least most of it.


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## seany1990 (Oct 13, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Yes
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
No
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
If you cant afford the game: No
If you can afford the game but wouldnt have bought it anyway: No
If you can afford the game and would buy the game: Yes
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
No


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 13, 2020)

seany1990 said:


> - ¿Do you use CFW?
> Yes
> - ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
> No
> ...




95% of people once they start using cfw, will likely not buy games even if it's one they will pay for, because they can now blow 60-70 bucks on something else instead, that is a will power issue, just go on a computer and download a file.....

not being able to afford the game isn't an excuse, when i was a kid, i made money by fixing people computers, cutting grass, helping my parents, if you want, earn it,

these are just excuses to make stealing something sound okay, stealing is stealing, just because you don't want to pay, or can't pay doesn't make it right, or legal, is still stealing, and if enough people do it, can bankrupt a company, or they will stop releasing physical media, and make everything download only, which can be made much harder to pirate

piracy/cfw is good for one thing, long term archival of software

look at my SIG, i have room talk in this department


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## BlueFox gui (Oct 13, 2020)

i think it's cool, free game goes woosh


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## Deleted User (Oct 13, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> when i was a kid, i made money by fixing people computers, cutting grass, helping my parents, if you want, earn it,


i hate this argument, not on every country people are willing  to hire kids for such things, and most parents feel reluctant to give their kids money, even if they do chores


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## ELY_M (Oct 13, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW? Yes 
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong? No
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong? Yes 
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? Yes 


piracy is what ruining homebrew scene!!!!!!!   
homebrew is make your own apps and use other homemade apps that one programmed.   
custom themes, cheat engine, weather app, video player, music player, more more


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## godreborn (Oct 13, 2020)

I will admit that I pirate games for all systems aside from the switch, but I don't ever play those games.  the only games I play are ones I legitimately bought like 3d world on the wii u, which I'm playing right now.  there's just no obligation to play games that I didn't buy.  I don't care what others do with their systems, but that's just the way I am with mine.  I don't believe hacked systems belong online in any shape or form, so don't bitch if you get banned.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 13, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> i hate this argument, not on every country people are willing  to hire kids for such things, and most parents feel reluctant to give their kids money, even if they do chores



i hate the argument that stealing and piracy is right because you can't afford it, yeah i understand that, but that's the cost of owning a game console,

just like owning a car, it's a money pit, if it cost too much, buy a smartphone


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## godreborn (Oct 13, 2020)

I can understand pirating if you live in certain countries.  I think I read that maybe three or four years ago final fantasy xii was finally released in some middle eastern country.  in that event, what can you do unless you want to spend a ludicrous sum of money?

though piracy might not be stealing, in some ways it is.  I was a part of the ps3 inner circle for a time, and I can tell you that duplex has a group of people who break into warehouses and steal games physically, so the games they release are usually not store bought.  in fact, one or more of them were caught at one point and arrested.  I'm sure they're still doing the same thing in the ps4 scene.  duplex also has control over what other groups release and what they release.


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## Deleted User (Oct 13, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> i hate the argument that stealing and piracy is right because you can't afford it, yeah i understand that, but that's the cost of owning a game console,
> 
> just like owning a car, it's a money pit, if it cost too much, buy a smartphone


except for the developer the difference between not buying and pirating financially mean the same, so you'd only screw over yourself bt not pirating


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## godreborn (Oct 13, 2020)

heh, money pit.  have you seen the movie with Tom Hanks?  when the kitchen explodes is classic.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

classic:


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 13, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> except for the developer the difference between not buying and pirating financially mean the same, so you'd only screw over yourself bt not pirating



not buying is not buying, pirating is stealing regardless, there's a difference, even if you weren't going to buy it it's still theft, because you wouldn't play it if you can't run a romloader, and download the pirated (illegal/ copyrighted) rom for free, because you won't buy the game, you'll play it only if you pirate (steal) a copy of it, it's called copyright law and IP theft

you can pirate roms and whatnot, like i say everyone does it to a degree, but when you get a DMCA notice, or a C&D from your isp, don't be surprised,  normally you're fine, but if companies really want to, you can be held liable just as much as tx, remember possession is 9/10 of the law


it may get to the point where they fuck it, if you run cfw we'll effectively brick/ban your console from running any of our software,  most people don't read terms of use anyway, hacking/and cfw is included on these


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## wormdood (Oct 13, 2020)

Lang_Kasempo said:


> - ¿Do you use CFW?
> - ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
> - ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?


 before I answer let me just say that I have some some weird (awful sus) answers in this thread


Spoiler



1.)  use it ?!?  no I abuse it. if it had a body I'd be in bed with it doing all types of things with it with the lights off, before smacking it on its rear parts before asking it to grab me another cold one.

2.)  hell yeah it's wrong anyone who says differently is just kidding themselves as others have mentioned it's not wrong to be able to do what you want with the product you paid for what is wrong is the fact that we pay for a product that we in fact cannot do anything we want on and expect it to do more then it's supposed to do so we jump through hoops to get out of a jail we bought our way into when in reality the best thing to do would be to use our purchasing power and let our money speak so that we can actually get the features we want in our devices let's get real although it would never happen if 90% of Sony customer sent a letter to Sony demanding Linux or they were going to go to Nintendo and not buy a PlayStation 5 then guess what Sony would be looking into (also I never got my cold one)

3.)   again hell yeah it's wrong anyone who says differently is again simply fooling themselves. other forms of theft people would consider wrong period, but because it's digital ones and zeros and all people presume that there's no actual theft. you know what else amounts to all ones and zeros cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin is still worth more than the US dollar ... so I'm not hearing anything about how ones and zeros don't equal money as long as cryptocurrency exists there will be no denying that 1's + 0's = $$$ and also no denying that digital theft is still theft

3. bonus) a pirate and a lot there's no other way to put that but I also like to support the Developers not all the developers mind you but when I pirate a game that I enjoy and would like to play a sequel to or movie that the same I enjoyed would like to see a sequel to or a book or an album Etc I then go out and buy a new copy of said movie book album film as I said earlier it's best to speak with your money or else how will companies know what it is they should produce

4.)  It's not wrong to relate them some consoles can only pirate after installing custom firmware what's more the first thing out of 90% of people's mouths who talked about how they installed custom firmware not to Pirate but just for Homebrew is the word emulation perhaps I'm mistaken but I really doubt they had the tools and the retro game carts available to rip every single rom that they play instead they're not even fooling themselves they know damn well that they went to a ROM site or the like to download all their retro ROMs


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 13, 2020)

wormdood said:


> before I answer let me just say that I have some some weird (awful sus) answers in this thread
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



tl;dr

any excuse that piracy is right and okay, and is fine, you're fooling yourselves, point blank, period.

do not become a software engineer or hardware engineer, or work in the computing field professionally with that attitude, you can go to prison for corporate espionage, also avoid jobs that require non-disclosure agreements too, you leak their secrets, they'll leak your ass


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## KhenemetHeru (Oct 13, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
If one is available for a console, even a brand new out of the box console, YES, every time.

- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
Not in the slightest, I think it's wrong that companies try to lock up their devices to prevent users from doing anything they choose to with them. I don't care what a EULA or any other agreement says. I spend that much money on a physical device, it and everything in or attached to it belongs to ME and ME ALONE. And I'll do with it as I like.

- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Absolutely not. Aside from being able to get and play/view games/movies/music/books that otherwise one might never get to access, there's also the fact that a "pirated" game/movie/album/book you have forever, and no company or individual can take access away from you, or remove it from your devices (or backup locations, either); alleviating the burden of artificially excessive under-supply or artificially ridiculous pricing and availability structures is also a perfect argument for "piracy". In short, "Piracy" is an institution that is an acceptable means of acquisition - and will always be here. It's the term "Piracy" that is wrong - it's liberation.

- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes, as there are plenty of people with moral sticks up their asses that simply want to put a custom theme or gamer picture on their console. And no, because if you're going to go through all the trouble to jump through hoops getting CFW working on a console, it's moronic to not avail yourself of the free games that go along with that. It's the term "Piracy" that is wrong in that instance as well. Liberation.


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## wormdood (Oct 13, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> you can go to prison for corporate espionage


 could you please do me a favor and show me where anything I said sounds like corporate espionage



aadz93 said:


> also avoid jobs that require non-disclosure agreements too, you leak their secrets, they'll leak your ass


 again for some reason you grasp at straws I'm not leaking Trade Secrets here I'm telling it as it is I'm simply telling people to speak with their money in order to get companies to produce the products they would like to buy in the first place

And lastly hell yeah my attitude sucks but but in your rebuttal you never said I was wrong on any point cuz you can't like I said I speak the truth

Geez bro these were all questions about people making illegal modifications to their consoles and yes at least here in the US it is illegal to modify your console you trying to hit me with how illegal I'm a sounding is just silly


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## godreborn (Oct 13, 2020)

I'll just say this:  I don't really care if people pirate.  I do it or have done it in the past.  It's naive to think that that's not the reason most people want a system hacked. Though I'd only hack my switch for the saves.  I have to spend money in my payee account.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


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## Deleted User (Oct 13, 2020)

Yes and no.

CFW allows you to "revive" a console to use for everything it can and more, but it can also be used to play pirated software so the two are connected.

It's very much like preserving media and piracy.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Azerus_Kun said:


> nope, you paid for the console, you should have whatever FW you want


Don't they say we're buying a license, not the hardware/software?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DinohScene said:


> pls don't pirate.


How are folks supposed to be able to play, like, The Simpsons Arcade? At an arcade? Most people don't have access to one, so their only option is to pirate it.

An arcade game I love which never had a proper Console/PC port (there was for PS1 except that sucked) was Radikal Bikers so I'm stuck to play the pirated version.







Though to be fair, you're right for the most part. Most people use it to pirate games available for sale.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 13, 2020)

wormdood said:


> could you please do me a favor and show me where anything I said sounds like corporate espionage
> 
> again for some reason you grasp at straws I'm not leaking Trade Secrets here I'm telling it as it is I'm simply telling people to speak with their money in order to get companies to produce the products they would like to buy in the first place
> 
> ...



first of all, you sound butthurt? its hilarious cuz i wasn't even referring to you in that post, i was speaking in general terms

geez read

btw

tl;dr = too long didn't read, mean i've summarized your point
 for those who aren't reading all of that

what im saying is a generalization
if you're taking it personal it's not my fault, you may be a bit insecure


its not illegal to mod your console, stealing is illegal, you can run all the open source homebrew you want, it's using that same knowlege to download rom copies you don't legally own, like you say 1's and 0s still has value, its called copyright theft, and intellectual property theft

second i'm just saying from a dev pov (i'm an independent dev for ninty so i can partly speak on this), they don't play with this kind of stuff, just saying companies in the computer and IT field won't hire you if you are knowingly open to piracy and things of such nature, if thats the career choice you want, and how secure is cybersecurity if they hire a bunch of pro piracy  programmers/engineers?

yeah i used to pirate everything, but i got older, and pay bills and work, so i buy my games, so the devs that write code make  a living that deal with debt and bills that have to get paid too


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## Deleted User (Oct 13, 2020)

Boesy said:


> Don't they say we're buying a license, not the hardware/software?


i think that only aplies to SW, as doing such a thing for HW would be leasing, and consoles arent leased, they are sold


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## godreborn (Oct 13, 2020)

I think where they get you is the terms of service when going through initial setup.


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## Deleted User (Oct 13, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> not buying is not buying, pirating is stealing regardless, there's a difference, even if you weren't going to buy it it's still theft, because you wouldn't play it if you can't run a romloader, and download the pirated (illegal/ copyrighted) rom for free, because you won't buy the game, you'll play it only if you pirate (steal) a copy of it, it's called copyright law and IP theft
> 
> you can pirate roms and whatnot, like i say everyone does it to a degree, but when you get a DMCA notice, or a C&D from your isp, don't be surprised,  normally you're fine, but if companies really want to, you can be held liable just as much as tx, remember possession is 9/10 of the law
> 
> ...


stealing would imply the original is lost, if i go to a retail store and take, lets say, a can of coke without paying, the store owner will not be able to sell that can of coke, its a loss, on the other hand, developers have infinite copies of whatever software, pirating still leaves them with infinite copies of whatever they are selling, they have the original


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> first of all, you sound butthurt? it hilarious cuz wasn't even referring to you in that post, i was speaking in general terms


 then why quote me genius



aadz93 said:


> tl;dr = too long didn't read, mean i've summarized your point
> for those who aren't reading all of that


 tldr means too long didn't read as in you didn't read but I assume you did because you try to summarize it for the rest of gbatemp emphasis on try



aadz93 said:


> what im saying is a generalization
> if you're taking it personal it's not my fault, you may be a bit insecure


 again why bother to quote me to say a generalization why use terms like you if you are not talking to me like those who consider emulation Homebrew and not piracy you are only lying to yourself bro I know anybody who actually reads this will believe that you weren't talking to me



aadz93 said:


> its not illegal to mod your console, stealing is illegal, you can run all the open source homebrew you want, it's using that same knowlege to download rom copies you don't legally own, like you say 1's and 0s still has value, its called copyright theft, and intellectual property theft


 this is again where things begin to clash yes it's perfectly legal to play legitimate Homebrew but not when playing said home bro forces you to circumvent anti-piracy measures inside a pre-existing console once you do that it becomes illegal. And guess what as X advance and consoles become more advanced they started putting anti-piracy measures into more than just the the games themselves they started including anti-piracy measures in the consoles and in case you still don't believe me you're still mistaken bro look at tx ... the FBI doesn't bust you for selling products that do legal things



aadz93 said:


> second i'm just saying from a dev pov (i'm an independent dev for ninty so i can partly speak on this), they don't play with this kind of stuff, just saying companies in the computer and IT field won't hire you if you are knowingly open to piracy and things of such nature, if thats the career choice you want, and how secure is cybersecurity if they hire a bunch of pro piracy programmers/engineers?


lol independent means not affiliated with so no you can't speak for Nintendo in any capacity and if you truly are affiliated with Nintendo in any fashion than you would realize that in hiring you they do hire people who used to Pirate so shut your trap bro



aadz93 said:


> yeah i used to pirate everything, but i got older, and pay bills and work, so i buy my games, so the devs that write code make a living that deal with debt and bills that have to get paid too


 yeah here's that proof that you used to pirate all I have to do is say that it's in my past as well and then guess what I can get that job thanks for the recommendation bro

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Azerus_Kun said:


> stealing would imply the original is lost, if i go to a retail store and take, lets say, a can of coke without paying, the store owner will not be able to sell that can of coke, its a loss, on the other hand, developers have infinite copies of whatever software, pirating still leaves them with infinite copies of whatever they are selling, they have the original


water water everywhere and not a drop to drink ... really you're example was a more tangible thing before cloning existed now I can make unlimited copies of my sheep and that doesn't mean that cheap clones have no value and you can steal my copied sheep


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## Risteing (Oct 14, 2020)

Do you use CFW?
Yes, every console I have runs a CFW (if enable). If not, then I use HEN (PS4) or some Flashcard (Primarly retro consoles)

Do you think CFW is wrong?
Absolutly not. CFW gives you some control over that is imposible by... oficial means (like controlling your Nintendo with SONY controllers or streams your screen to the PC).

Do you think piracy is wrong?
Not necesarly. Ok, from the legal point of view is completly wrong but... what about abandonware? or retro games? Now a lot of companies are re-releasing old games on some fashion and shining package (like mini consoles and stuff) or oficial emulators on their current consoles but... BUT they are not releasing all the games, not even closes.
And also we got world economi problems, like in my country any console and games has a 70% incress value only for taxes (plus shippong and stuff). It is imposible for me to keep buying newers games. But when I can, I do.
And unlisted games like Godzilla for PS4... they are a lot of reasons.

Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. I keep offering CFW to some relatives and friends and the normal answer is "but I dont wanna play Pirate games". Yeah, but you can purchase games if you want. CFW unlocks "another world". Multimedia players for the Wii. Streaming machines with the Switch. Restores features in the PS3. Use the device you like the most in the console you like the most.

And here's the normal "sorry for my english" and stuff.


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> water water everywhere and not a drop to drink ... really you're example was a more tangible thing before cloning existed now I can make unlimited copies of my sheep and that doesn't mean that cheap clones have no value and you can steal my copied sheep


because real life cloning isnt free, copying a file is free


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> because real life cloning isnt free, copying a file is free


 the first part of your statement is a fact the second part of your statement is the debate at hand you seem to believe it's free because it cost you yourself nothing for you to copy that file talk to the man who is pressing the button to copy that file and the company he had to pay countless workers to have that file constructed for him it's not free


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> the first part of your statement is a fact the second part of your statement is the debate at hand you seem to believe it's free because it cost you yourself nothing for you to copy that file talk to the man who is pressing the button to copy that file and the company he had to pay countless workers to have that file constructed for him it's not free


iboth phyisical and non-physical products take a lot of research, thing is, after all the money on research, physical products still spend money on materials


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> iboth phyisical and non-physical products take a lot of research, thing is, after all the money on research, physical products still spend money on materials


 semantics bro you're saying because one cost more to produce that it's okay to steal the cheaper one that's like saying it's wrong to steal Oreos but Double Stuffed chocolate cookies are perfectly fine for you to steal on the ground that they're cheaper in the version you're used to


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 14, 2020)

im still a developer, it still affects me too and any software dev, smartass, whether i directly work through ninty or indirectly, i have full sdk and devkit access to their dev network, i can release software that can and will be pirated.... i could leak their entire sdk, aswell as a free copy of unity engine, but i wont, because they can/will take legal action,

its a will power issue,

you still sound very butthurt, and i quoted you as a form of agreement,  that why i liked your post,

and keyword is used to pirate, and getting a job for finding exploits is different than for distributing/promoting illegal roms copies, thats why TX got shut down by nintendo, have you been under a rock? that what happens when you openly pirate (and sell it),sx os is a cfw that they sell, that allows you to load and install rom copies, and you have to buy a license key to install it, that's why atmosphere isn't in any heat, they don't support rom loading, you have to add it yourself

datel is the really the only company that has been able to get away with legal homebrew devices, but they cant load roms


btw you sound really douchey and you seem you're such a badass cuz you use cfw and pirate, in the end idc what you do, just don't complain when companies start bricking your consoles for using cfw

they already have clauses in their TOS that's why they can ban you, if you read the tos for any console, modding and hacking is covered, so just update the terms of use, and brick your system



plus learn what second person point of view is


plus you don't know what you're talking about: modding your console is legal
so is jail breaking your phone, obtaining and using pirated code is illegal, you can jtag, softmod your wii or wiiu and jailbreak your playstation thats completly legal to do, downloading rom's and commercial/consumer copyrighted software isn't

you can legally mod your console (in the USA)

but using that modded console to run pirated games is illegal, not because the console is modded, but you have received stolen goods...

its what you use the modded console for, modding it in itself is legal, except for the dev that makes the cfw, they can be held liable, that's why TX team is in jail, thats why atmosphere doesn't support piracy out of the box


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> semantics bro you're saying because one cost more to produce that it's okay to steal the cheaper one that's like saying it's wrong to steal Oreos but Double Stuffed chocolate cookies are perfectly fine for you to steal on the ground that they're cheaper in the version you're used to


nah, im saying that because one is infinite by its nature, its ok to take copies, one is limited, so its not ok


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> im still a developer, it still affects me


It doesn't help that this website as good as it is, helps folks in hacking their consoles which leads to piracy, but they'd look up a tutorial anywhere else, anyway.

Plus, GBATemp way back used to be a rom site. I still remember that and I _LOVED_ it!






I miss those days and the look GBATemp had.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 14, 2020)

maaan nolstalgia, but again hacking your console is legal, running and distributing roms isnt


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## Cryoraptor (Oct 14, 2020)

CFW? Nothing wrong with it whatsoever unless it's breaking laws.

Piracy? If you pirate a game like Minecraft, I'd say that's morally wrong because of the quality of the game and the amount of work the devs put in to making it. A 'game' like SM3DAS? Nintendo doesn't deserve money for that garbage especially when they allegedly used an unofficial emulation tool themselves. Repackaging 3 unmodified ROMs (while actually making them worse) is not £50's worth of work. I could do that in 5 minutes with free ROMs and software available on the internet if I wanted to.

At the end of the day, games that welcome modding stay alive for longer, MC being an example of that. Games that demonise modding end up turning people away, and they pirate the game. Nintendo got it's consoles pirated because it shunned unofficial modding, which incidentally fuelled hackers to mod the console harder as a middle finger which leads to more exploits that pirates can use coming to light. To this day, the Wii has to be one of if not the most modded console in existence. And it's all because Nintendo demonised it without putting in the necessary security to stop hackers from finding exploits. What happens when someone tells you not to do something? You do it. Games that stay pro-consumer and have no problem with mods have a more loyal fanbase and stay relevant for far longer, because the possibilities are endless. Even though Nintendo tried to crack down on it and failed, MKWii, 12 years later is still very much alive, almost entirely because of modding. MK8 and even MK8DX are dying (or long dead in MK8's case) because they have nothing more to offer. With no way to mod the game, people get bored and move on. I stayed interested in MKWii for a long time because I could mod custom textures, play on new custom stages, custom background music, and so on. Meanwhile, I completed 50-mirrorCC on MK8DX and barely picked it up ever again.


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

@aadz93 have you talked about me with a giant wall post TL DR at least have the decency to use a spoiler... it's not hard


Spoiler



first I never doubted you were developer  heck anyone over the age of 18 with an email account can be a developer for Nintendo if they wanted also relax dude no one's telling you to leak anything and I don't know I had requested from you if like I and I don't know I had requested from you when as I said before I could simply sign up if I wanted or download them from that ISO site where they're already available to pirate

Second if you truly liked my post you have an odd way of showing it coming in trying to be my life coach while not giving me any actual advice

3rd so now your job is what exploit squasher extraordinaire running Nintendo security team over there or something I thought you said you were a software developer developing software for them come on man make up your mind told  also you compare TX and atmosphere and they're really not comparable in this context yes they're both CFW for the switch but tx's for sale while atmosphere is not there is a big difference in the scale of the crime also your argument for the inclusion a way to pirate games as the deciding factor and then getting sued is absolutely silly because CFW was free for 3DS and every installation package included a CIA installer yeah. They didn't get sued and they were allowing me 2 install games that I never paid for could it be the fact that as I said tx's selling it and you're not allowed to sell things that are illegal and the reason CFW doesn't get the same treatment is because it's nearly impossible the countdown the number of stolen copies of anything through CFW like it is through TX which keeps a database of its customers

Datel gets away with this because they reverse engineer to allow their own software to be played the difference is CFW use brute force private keys in the system thus circumventing anti-piracy measures already in place I'm repeating myself now that's not legal

I am a douche and I am a badass thank you for noticing but it's not because I use CFW + pirate it's because I give it to you straight and unfiltered some people can't handle that also that's rich bro they are not going to break your console no matter how hard you hack why because in the UK they still have to honor all their service contracts because over there it is legal to install CFW as you on the device and can do whatever you want with it so anyone over there who gets their console bricked will have to get it replaced for free assuming it's still within warranty so a brick code is absolutely out of the question

And you sound silly trying to equate console hack into phone jailbreaking cell phone hasn't been a cell phone since we stopped using flip phones and judges agree with this statement they are computers more than they are phones and computers are open source environments but video game consoles have not been declared computers and are not open source environment in the US court systems eyes

And on your final  point i already explained all this but its summary time ... its illegal to install cfw in the usa depending upon the method used to achieve the desired result ie reverse engineering is ruled fair use the reason emulators and datel devices exist, if your cfw installation method is illegal than your operation of unlicensed code is illegal including legal homebrew and no the inclusion of a program to install games has no barring as 3ds cfw had this and the only people who were charged were those who profited like tx who keep good costumer records making it easy to estimate damages which is essential to guilt whereas cfw dev's are much harder targets as they keep 0 record of users and did not make mad money with which to pay court fees and potential restitution...not bundling with a game installation program is not the game changer but just I will agree it does help decrease the likelihood of loosing if a dev were to be sued


see I can say a lot without cluttering the thread its called a spoiler but seriously if you are gonna hit me with another text wall then have the decency to do it in PM or spoilers


aadz93 said:


> maaan nolstalgia, but again hacking your console is legal, running and distributing roms isnt


 again hacking your console is not legal because of the methods used to do so it is not reverse-engineered but brute force and there is a difference in the courts eyes ... yeah bleem beat Sony know why because they reverse-engineered (like datel)
 and had the program use original ps1 discs 


Azerus_Kun said:


> nah, im saying that because one is infinite by its nature, its ok to take copies, one is limited, so its not ok


not really infinite implies that you can do it forever and ever with no loss but as I said before these developers have to pay lots of people in order to get that perfectly replicable file and on top of that not every game continues to exist in a sellable fashion forever simply because of it being digital hence the large list of games delisted from sale on digital storefronts so no it's not infinite for the dev pressing the button it's only infinite for the Thief


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> @aadz93 have you talked about me with a giant wall post TL DR at least have the decency to use a spoiler... it's not hard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


again soft-modding your console to run homebrew code is legal, using that softmodded console to run pirated games copies is illegal, when i buy the console, i own any unique console specific keys, so that's not illegal, however leaking nintendo sony or m$ private signing key  is illegal (also consoles don't usually use just one key), i do not have right to posses it, the private key is Nintendo property, once you buy a console, you can legally run your own homebrew, i can use libctru and write any program i want and run it on my console legally, as long as it doesnt run pirated roms,  you can run any software legally that of your own original creation, exploiting a bug, which I would have to write my own code for, to properly utilize , isn't illegal, the software bug was there already when i purchased it.

you should learn copyright laws, and IP Laws,

apple tried to go the supreme court, to ban softmodding their devices (jailbreaking), they lost, that happend in 2010,  softmodding is legal,

if modding your console was illegal, GBAtemp what have been shut down by now, as many modding and hacking tuts are hosted

https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

you seem to act like you know what you're talking about, it's hilarious to me because you are wrong

plus i don't tell you how to write your posts so i'm not changing they way i write mine


hell google can tell you this:















seems to agree with what i'm saying

*you can legally mod your console, you cannot use a modded console to play pirated roms (illegal copies) this also includes romhacks*


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## Pokemon_Tea_Sea_Jee (Oct 14, 2020)

When the world becomes a more fair place with Bernie Sanders economics, maybe people will think it is worth buying games instead of pirating them.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 14, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?

On pretty much any device that has it (consoles and handhelds). Heck, I'd install it on my multipurpose oven if it was stable enough and had extra features. 

- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
It's dual (see also the answer below). For video game companies, I understand all too well why the creators want to have a "walled garden", as to keep piracy within check. And just throwing out the source code in the hopes that a community will provide the best possible firmware out there is naive (face it: it only attracts coders if it has a wide popularity, which won't happen if your product isn't up to snuff...so you've got to code a OFW anyhow).
However, not everything's consoles and handhelds. I guess I have to point at my old but still reliable sansa disk MP3 player. When I got it for jogging, it was "okay". Serves its purpose fine when you just want to load a playlist that plays MP3 tracks. Still...the OFW is clunky when you're in your jogging outfit wanting to select that one playlist, or when you're running and you "just" want to make a small adjustment.
Enter rockbox. This CFW (for quite some mp3 players, actually, so you might wanna check it out) overhauls the entire GUI to make it...well...what it was supposed to be in the first place, really. From starting to playing is only one or two clicks away. The screen is very small but screen estate is respected. The used color interface has much better contrast (so better readable in outdoor light) and it packs far more features than you'd think. A timer and chronometer are obvious benefits, but you can even play sudoku on that thing (not sure why anyone would want to with those controls, but ey...you can  ). Though it might be just me being enthousiast about it, but I swear even battery life and sound quality are better. All in all...that's one example where CFW is a great tool despite no piracy being involved whatsoever (*looks at collection* erm...well...not more than before, that is  ).

- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Short answer: yes. Developers deserve to be paid for their work. Especially if it's a lot of work.
But the sad truth: I pirate quite a bit. Perhaps not as much as others, and I have bought games because I liked them so much (hence why I've still got plastic wrapped copies of e.g. Xenoblade chronicles and the first fallout games), but I won't deny that I do things that are wrong(1). I also eat things that are wrong for my body (potato chips just now). I pretend a heavier workload at work than there is so I can renovate my house while getting paid from work. And I'm guilty of more of those things. Sorry, but I ain't no angel. In writing I try to be honest, but in actions I'm just a selfish asshole.

- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. See also my reply to the CFW firmware for MP3 players. But as probably said multiple times before (I haven't read much other answers): when I buy a device, it's mine. Manufacturers can go all "it's not intended to be used for XXX", but I say fuck that. Imagine a car salesman who sells you a car but has you sign a 115 page document that includes (among others) that you won't throw out the trash that's filling the trunk. Would you abide by it because you signed? Of course not.
Look...I get that for video games, piracy takes center stage for the reason for CFW. And...not really for bad reasons. Do you really use your 3DS or vita to watch shows on the go? Do you really need YET ANOTHER device to play doom on? And the non-ports for other devices are...well, some certainly outdo the "proof of concept" or "here's my resumé" phase, but still...there's not much of a killer app, if we're honest.

But on other devices? HP once had firmware in their printers that had the cartridges report as empty before they actually were empty so they sold more. I've read about CFW whose only real function was to save battery life. And this is from the top of my head. So no...CFW isn't "just" about piracy. It's foremost actually taking control of your device.




(1): fuck...I'm downloading something from a shady site as we speak 
EDIT: LOL...that download failed due to network error. That's karma for you


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 14, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> - ¿Do you use CFW?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



exactly the problem, CFW is great for long term unofficial support, but nowadays people rather focus on getting free games, and associate the scene on that basis, also blame smartphones, as before they came out, home brew kinda filled that niche,  i remember using my NDS as a voip phone, to check facebook, play scene made games, watch movies, music, and run  various apps, that's why i support homebrew and cfw/homebrew, as it is useful


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> @aadz93
> not really infinite implies that you can do it forever and ever with no loss but as I said before these developers have to pay lots of people in order to get that perfectly replicable file and on top of that not every game continues to exist in a sellable fashion forever simply because of it being digital hence the large list of games delisted from sale on digital storefronts so no it's not infinite for the dev pressing the button it's only infinite for the Thief


delisting is something the developer has to go out of their way to do, again, there is no extra cost to selling a new copy, and they most likely already made the money they put in back, so any sale after that is just extra money for no work


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

aadz93 said:


> again soft-modding your console to run homebrew code is legal, ...  when i buy the console, i own any unique console specific keys


this is true if you live in the UK but here in the US it's not just because the keys are present on the console you purchased does not make them your property again smartphones like the iPhone are deemed akin to computers hence follow its rules gaming consoles are not akin to computers and laws have not caught up with them in that fashion so it is not legal to make these modifications


aadz93 said:


> if modding your console was illegal, GBAtemp what have been shut down by now, as many modding and hacking tuts are hosted


 a tutorial is protected under the First Amendment it is simply a piece of literature they're not giving U CFW but explaining to you how to get it yourself



aadz93 said:


> you seem to act like you know what you're talking about, it's hilarious to me because you are wrong


 I'm sorry were you practicing this line in the mirror cuz it seems like you wrote it for yourself you tell me stupid things like to Google something and all the results you show me I from forums where absolutely anyone is allowed to give a response if you want to prove something is a legal definitively then how about a legal document



aadz93 said:


> plus i don't tell you how to write your posts so i'm not changing they way i write mine


 yes you can keep responding to me in the same foolish manner all you want but I'm going to cut it here and I'm going to stop responding to you have a good day bro

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Azerus_Kun said:


> delisting is something the developer has to go out of their way to do, again, there is no extra cost to selling a new copy, and they most likely already made the money they put in back, so any sale after that is just extra money for no work


 incorrect my man maybe you missed the news article gbatemp had about how Scott Pilgrim versus the world creator was pushing 4 years to get his game relisted I doubt he asked for it to be pulled and paid for it as you seem to make it sound like he would have had to


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> incorrect my man maybe you missed the news article gbatemp had about how Scott Pilgrim versus the world creator was pushing 4 years to get his game relisted I doubt he asked for it to be pulled and paid for it as you seem to make it sound like he would have had to


that is an exception, not the rule since scott pilgrim was a licensed game, those are not the majority of games being released todat


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 14, 2020)

Show me your proof, where are sourcing your "facts", when I dump my xbox 360 cpu key, I can legally do so, as it is specific and unique, no two console use the same key, I'm allowed  to have a copy, that key is physically stored on in hardware, which I own, the company doesn't have to support modding, but doesn't make illegal

First you say modding is completely illegal, I prove you wrong

Now you keep making excuses just so you can argue with someone who actually works as a computer/electrical engineer on a some internet forum.....

I don't care what else you have to rebute, its like I'm talking to a flat earther

First amendment only applies to people who are located in the USA and not other countries has nothing  to with this

Modding a console doesn't violate copyright, or dcma


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> that is an exception, not the rule since scott pilgrim was a licensed game, those are not the majority of games being released todat


man 1 makes point man 2 ignores it ... lol I can dig up more examples but to put in effort would be silly because man 1 makes point man 2 ignores it


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 14, 2020)

You haven't provided one example, just conjecture and opinion


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## Deleted User (Oct 14, 2020)

wormdood said:


> man 1 makes point man 2 ignores it ... lol I can dig up more examples but to put in effort would be silly because man 1 makes point man 2 ignores it


of all major unlisted games, only one of four was not licensed: Driver san francisco, and thats just ubisoft being ubisoft, the other three are Scott pilgrim, jojo HFTF and deadpool, all licensed, so they had to because they expired their licenses


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## wormdood (Oct 14, 2020)

Okay one last time I will pacify your need to hear from me





aadz93 said:


> First you say modding is completely illegal, I prove you wrong


 you didn't prove anything wrong you're only proof we're Google search has resulted in Forum post Forum post



aadz93 said:


> Now you keep making excuses just so you can argue with someone who actually works as a computer/electrical engineer on a some internet forum.....


 now you work as a computer engineer or electrical engineer whichever it is that you're claiming when previously you told me that you were a software developer for Nintendo and a Bug Hunter please bro make up your mind



aadz93 said:


> I don't care what else you have to rebute, it like I'm talking to a flat earther


 that's exactly what I'm saying next you'll be telling me that you work for NASA



aadz93 said:


> First amendment only applies to people who are located in the USA and not other countries has nothing to with this


 that is exactly what we're talkin about I've stated many times in the US meaning in the USA this is applicable I've stated many times that your statements are only true if you live in the UK but not the first amendment the applicable to crimes that are only considered crimes in the USA think before you speak genius



aadz93 said:


> Modding a console doesn't violate copyright, or dcma


 did I bring up the terms copyright or dcma why are you even... my God you're still not thinking

Anywho I'm just going to add you to my ignore list and that's going to stop this argument right here and there once again have a good day bro


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Oct 15, 2020)

Yeah you get a degree in something called computer engineering, to become a programmer, dipshit

I never said I was a bug bounty hunter, and yes I'm a nintendo dev, you keep making stuff up as you go


anything else to add to your butthurt report?

Ps: I Iive in the usa dipshit

@DinohScene is in the uk iirc, so he can speak on that better than me


You remind of this rush hour scene:


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## driverdis (Oct 15, 2020)

CFW and piracy will always be together on modern systems as you cannot have piracy without CFW anymore. Gone are the days of flashcarts and modchips that work on stock firmware.

The problem is that the general public and lawmakers associate CFW with piracy because you cant have piracy without CFW helping out since unsigned code is required to enable piracy on modern systems.

Having devs that denounce piracy helps on the legal side of things to keep CFW from being shut down but it will always be on a thin line because of piracy even most CFWs out of the box don't directly enable piracy.

once again, this applies to modern systems like the PS4, Xbox One, Switch, and PS Vita that can't use external modchips or flashcarts to enable piracy without software modifications hence CFW.


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## chrisrlink (Oct 15, 2020)

I'm probably the worst person on here to ask that

yes cause it allows alot of things cheats, homebrew ect

yes i pirate for the wrong reason i pirate first party to hurt them the reason? because of their "oh we must protect our IP from fan games" bullshit I'm sick of it why beat up some poor adult fuck even a teen in court for a Pokemon fan game? just put them on your payroll obviously they can make better games than the slackers you already hired but oh yeah their not japanese i can garentee you if the devs of a game was asian they'd hire them i swear the parent companies of Nintendo/sony are racist

yes i think its wrong to equate cfw with piracy same argument as the above people


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## saishowaguu2 (Oct 15, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Yes, but the extent and the number of times I actually use it these days has significantly decreased.

- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
No.

- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Yes.

- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
I think it is wrong to think that every person who is using CFW is participating in "piracy", but I also think that it is naïve to think that CFW does not eventually lead to "piracy" at some point in time.

Modchips and Custom Firmwares have done a lot for me over the years.
The main thing I have used them for was to get around Region Locking. I know companies have had varying legal (and a few technical) reasons for implementing region locks, but I have always found them to be silly. And now, for the most part, game companies do not even seem to be implementing region locks any more.

Something else that I frequently used custom firmware for was for converting my consoles into pseudo media centers. Back in the day, I had a lot of media that I ripped or recorded myself (and let's be honest, a lot that I downloaded) and wanted a way to view it on my TV. At the time, connecting a PC to a TV was not convenient, so a console was the best alternative.
[I know ripping my own DVDs is also still controversial.]
This usage has also gone away (for me) with the advent of mini PCs, mobile phones and tablets, and the fact that consoles have streaming apps like Netflix, Hulu, Plex, etc.

The final way I used (and still use) CFW for was playing retro games on consoles (both home and portable).
I don't use it much anymore for this purpose, as there are so many alternatives for playing retro games these days, but saying that I've *only* used CFW and/or emulators to play games that I own or have previously owned would be false.
I no longer use that argument that I am "broke", therefore I will download a game/ROM and "Delete it after 24 hours". I buy retro games where I can.
But to be honest, there are just some retro games that I will never be able to play without emulation due to the fact that they are no longer available. Is that legal? No, but if a company wants to come after me for playing an obscure Mahjong game from 1995, then I'll take the hit. It's their right according to the law.

CFW has done a lot for video games and mobile device market.
It has allowed companies to see what features the "hardcore" gamers feel are missing from their devices and has shown them that many gamers still want to be able to play older games on their newest consoles.
(Though I will still never think it's right that some companies force you to rebuy the same retro games so soon on their next generation consoles.)

I can say a lot of this now because I have the money to fund my gaming and media consumption habits, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't relied heavily on CFW and emulators in the past.

To sum up, I think CFW is and will continue to be important for the gaming and tech communities, but piracy will always be a direct result of it being available. Companies have the right to punish those who steal, and it is stealing, since playing a game you did not purchase or borrow legally is inherently illegal. However, I will never think that CFW itself should be illegal, because we should be able to mod hardware or software for our own personal use as long as it does not affect others.


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## techmuse (Oct 15, 2020)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Yes. Personally I don't use CFW for piracy/cheating online, I use it to have fun.
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
I don't think CFW is wrong. Since its our consoles we should be able to do whatever. Its the same thing as replacing periods in our book with commas since yes its weird but its your book do whatever.
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Yes because of how much it can hurt the homebrew community.
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes.


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## Kanakops (Oct 15, 2020)

*Do you use CFW? *
 In my 3ds/wii yes, not on my switch yet.


*Do you think CFW is wrong?*
  No.


*Do you think piracy is wrong? *
 It is but not the same as stealing. Anyway I pirate most of the games I can if it's safe for my computer or consoles. I also have no regret when it's from a multimillionaire company or if I already have bought the game somewhere else. 

Also my tought on piracy is it's better to pirate a game in the point of view of the dev than never play it. If I was a dev I would prefer to get the money but I also prefer to see someone playing my game than not at all.

Every people have an opinion on privacy, It's obviously not legal nor moral but a large majority of the people I know just don't care. I think it's because it's not exactly as stealing because it's just a copy.


*Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*
 No, everytime there is a cfw you will see piracy. I even think most of the people use them to launch pirated game even if of course it's not the case of everyone.


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## Deleted User (Oct 17, 2020)

* Do you use CFW?*
Yes! OFW gets boring after a while and I want things to stay varied.

* Do you think CFW is wrong?*
No! Not at all. After all, you've paid for your console and you should have the right to do what you want with it.

* Do you think piracy is wrong?*
Not really . I think you should do what you want. If someone does it then the person should expect the possible consequences.

* Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*



Urbanshadow said:


> Yes. A CFW is not a mean to run pirated games for the system. A CFW is a mean to run unsigned software.


I agree with @Urbanshadow on this point.


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## Tomato123 (Oct 17, 2020)

Do you use CFW?
Yes because I love the freedom it allows you. I enjoy customizing every little thing about my devices.

Do you think CFW is wrong?
No. It allows for some amazing things and I hate when a device is locked to a single purpose because it is extremely wasteful.

Do you think piracy is wrong?
No. I think everyone here has downloaded an MP3 before, how is it any different for what you are downloading? And many of the games I pirate are games that I would never have bought in the first place, only playing them because I have the option to play them for free. Typically if I enjoy a game, I will still buy it afterwards to support the devs. I don't want to buy a game only to realise I don't like it, which is what happened with me for Hyrule Warriors. If many developers still released free demos, I probably wouldn't feel the need to pirate. It also does have a place in countries that have a poor economy and simply cannot afford games.

Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes and no. CFW allows for so much more than just piracy, but it also enables it. Lets say your console is a farm with some sheep on it but you have a gate to stop the sheep from getting to a better part of your farm. It's like leaving the gate open and wondering why all the sheep are walking though it. Piracy is going to happen and there's no real way to stop it unless you lockdown the CFW but then what is the difference between it and an OFW.


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## Vovajka (Oct 17, 2020)

I am indifferent about CFWs, as for Piracy...It is complicated to say the least. Some people can't afford the stuff they pirate like me when I was a kid pirating PS2 games was the only way for me to get them. I lived in a very remote place that had no access to a legit source. Now that I can afford games and have no issues getting them I don't pirate anything anymore.


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## JaggerLagger (Oct 17, 2020)

Do you use CFW? Yes.
Do you think CFW is wrong? No. 
Do you think piracy is wrong? Yes it is wrong. However I can understand why some people would. For instance if you want a game but find a physical or digital copy, then some people find a pirating site and get the game. I've been the same situation where I couldn't find a DVD of an anime so I watched it online for free. I've also tried out games and bought them if I liked them a lot. 
Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? Yes because they're completely different as far as I can tell.


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## someguyonGBATEMP (Oct 6, 2021)

hello!

-¿Do you use CFW?
yes, all the time on my o3DS
-¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
hard no, cfw allows you to do something the original stock OS couldn't, so it's better to use
-¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
yes and no, it depends on how fucked up inflation is in your country, I use it occasionally to play 3DS games because it's very expensive here  (i only get pc and mobile games legitimately)
-¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
YES. I've been in the r/3DS and NH discord server and a lot of people come in and ask about piracy. someone even said "why are you telling me piracy is bad in the hacking channel", it's pretty bad to automatically relate cfw with piracy


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## Minox (Oct 6, 2021)

**Do you use CFW?*
Yes
**Do you think CFW is wrong?*
No
**Do you think piracy is wrong?*
Neither yes or no. I can afford to pay so I try to pay when possible
**Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*
No, CFW does make piracy more likely but ultimately it's up to the end user if they pirate or not


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## Stwert (Oct 6, 2021)

- ¿Do you use CFW?

Whenever possible. The homebrew community is frequently amazing.

- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?

Dear god no! Why should we feel bad for expanding upon the use scenario of devices we have paid good money for.

- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?

In a word, yes.

In a longer word, piracy has existed for almost as long as software has. Has the industry suffered as a result? To some degree yes, of course it has. Yet it has still managed to boom into a multi-billion dollar industry.

Your average punter in the street just buys games, it’s the way it has always been. The majority probably don’t know or care about piracy of software on the devices they own.

As an indie developer myself, I’ve been a victim of my software being pirated. Do I care? Not a jot. You learn one lesson fast, the vast majority of people who pirate software generally wouldn’t buy it no matter what, so why worry about a sale you never would have had in the first place.

Im happy when people pirate my software - I’ve never tried to prevent it. I’ve seen tens of thousands more people playing my games in the past than ever purchased it, y’know what, that makes me happy. It shows me that I’ve done my job right and made something people care enough about to pirate. And if that’s the case, it generally means I’m more likely to be making money from the people who don’t steal their software.

And for the record, yes, even I am guilty of borrowing a floppy or cassette back in the schoolyard days, to make a copy for myself.

I don’t pirate these days, with two exceptions - so, I guess that means I do  but I have rules. I love CFW and carts and so on because I love fan projects and custom ROMs - but only if I actually own the original.
The other exception is for old software (really old), where the developers and publishers just don’t exist anymore. If I can’t track down an original copy, I’ll sometimes play a ROM of it, but who am I to pay when they no longer exist? Instead, I donate the money to cancer research.

- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?

Absolutely. CFW and various other methods, are not immediately made available for the sole purpose of piracy. In most cases that’s far from the purpose intended by the person/people who open up our systems.

Piracy is a side effect of the work done to open up a system to perform functions it wasn’t designed to do. Want to run unofficial, unsigned software that expands a systems capabilities and pushes its boundaries? Awesome, but it will ultimately lead to people taking advantage of that goal in order to use software they haven’t purchased.


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## Dr_Faustus (Oct 7, 2021)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
Absolutely, on various devices.

- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
Not at all! I own the hardware, I deserve to use it to my means.

- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Depends on the scenario, if its a small dev/team I would feel more against the measure, but if its a huge studio thats probably making more money ripping people and kids off than they would ever lose any then I would not feel against that. Also depends on the availability of the media and if its being edited/censored in your area, making the original harder to get a hold of without the means of piracy. Its a complicated issue sure, but at the end of the day if I enjoy something greatly I have no problem giving money to those who made it.

- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Yes. Most of my use case with CFW is unlocking additional functions and mods that I could not do in the stock OS. Plus I just like having full control of my hardware. All of this has nothing to do with the ability to pirate media or not. Hell, I remember back in the day when people would mod their DVD players and game consoles just so they can play media that was region locked. Legit media, but was locked by the hardware. This is why mods and CFW got popular over time, the means to pirate just made the deal sweeter for those wanting to do that. 

People want and deserve to have full unrestricted control of their hardware. Restricting them for the sake of gains for the company is just anti-consumer and treats them like braindead children with deep pockets. Everyone should have the right to do everything they can do with their hardware and software, if they want to that is.


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## SuicideNotes (Jul 7, 2022)

Do you use CFW? 
Yeah on anything & Everything, 3ds Psp,Tablet,Xbox

Do you think CFW is wrong?
No I like the idea of having More controll over my devices,I hate stock 

Do you think piracy is wrong?
No I think Piracy Is Amazing, I have severe social angsiaty,I cant even go out, and i have alot of other problems so life for me is miserable.Heres the thing Game companys take the piss with prices, take nintendo full price for 3ds games years later, and the other rip off tactics for dlc, These people make money either way, If you have barly enough mony to survive aswell so id say its justifyed.

Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
Well from what ive seen most people who want cfw is for piracy thats from what ive seen, So i cant speculate for everyone.
But i dont know why it matters, I ve seen on discord people asking about cias and whatnot and imediatly told "oh buy that game i wont help you with piracy" or theyle respond i use cfw because i have kids and i need extra backup options incase my games get damged.....that really pisses me off, people rip and upload stuff anyway so why not make use of it. ps sorry about the late reply and spelling


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## Marc_LFD (Jul 8, 2022)

Do you use CFW?

Yes, on my DS Lite, 3DS XL, PS3 and Vita. Wish I could use a CFW of sorts on my 360, but the 360 is already open enough as it is with the OFW (listen to background music, make game backups, play demos downloaded on PC to 360, use game saves from other users, etc)

Do you think CFW is wrong?

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo do because they don't want you to have free access to more features.

Do you think piracy is wrong?

No, it's awesome.

Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?

The option is there, but you don't have to.


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## MicroNut99 (Jul 8, 2022)

Yes.
No.
No.
Yes.


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## InsaneNutter (Jul 8, 2022)

*Do you use CFW?*

Yes, I've used CFW since the WRT54G router days, then on my PSP and many other devices after that. If it counts as CFW I replaced my Xbox's dashboard with XBMC back in the day also!

I think it's great been able to make a device do more than what was originally intended.

*Do you think CFW is wrong?*

No, as per above I think its great been able to do more with a device than the manufacturer intended.

*Do you think piracy is wrong?*

I think the answer to that is complex, obviously if you like something then you should support the people who created that if possible. However *piracy is important for game preservation*, especially these days when even if you buy the game on disc or cartridge you don't get the finished game and often have to download a day 1 update before you can even play the game.

I don't think piracy is nearly as bigger problem as its made out to be, everyone I knew growing up who pirated games now buys them. So are most pirates kids who cant afford the game and would never be able to purchase the game anyway? Probably many other pirates live in countries where the game would simply be unaffordable, so again would never buy it anyway.

*Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*

Yes, most CFW's don't even allow piracy by default.


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## KimotoAkitoCCP (Jul 9, 2022)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
-No, cuz im justa scaredy cat and afraid of bricking my ONLY Old 2DS.
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
-It depends in what your using it for.
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
-Yes, and no, like i said , it depends.
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
-I don't know how to awnser that..


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## Tempesto (Jul 12, 2022)

*1. Do you use CFW?*
Yeah, I use it on my PSP and 3ds.
*2. Do you think CFW is wrong?*
No.
*3. Do you think piracy is wrong?*
I grew up in a family that pirated and burned hundreds, if not thousands, of DVDs. Hell, even back in 6th grade, I was pirating tons of games for OpenEmu on our school issued Macs. However, indie games are a big no no for me. Nintendo or Sega isn't going to lose millions if I pirate [insert random game] from, let's say, 2003 which can't be found on any modern storefronts, like Steam. Plus, piracy, in rare cases, is almost necessary if a game had such a limited release or is just way too costly (i.e, Kuon). 
*4. Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*
Yes. As InsaneNutter said, some CFW don't allow pirated games by default, like the Switch and 3DS; you need either some sort of patch or program to install them.


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## The Catboy (Jul 18, 2022)

- Do you use CFW? I do, having a CFW installed on my systems is something I pride myself in doing.
- Do you think CFW is wrong? Nope, I bought my systems and I can do whatever I want with them
- Do you think piracy is wrong? Not really. There are plenty of good reasons to pirate and I don't care what someone's reason is
- Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? I can see where the idea comes from but I do think it's wrong to say that they are connected. As someone who enjoys fucking about with my stuff, I do most of my hacking for research purposes. I know not everyone is the same but I also know plenty of people who hack their shit for non-piracy reasons, like removing region-locking for games they've imported to software exploit both to help the community and even to help the company.


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## sombrerosonic (Jul 19, 2022)

- ¿Do you use CFW? Yes
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong? Nope
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong? Yes and no, Why would i pirate a new game? That hurts the devs. I only pirate games for consoles that are abandoned by the devs and the company who 
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy? Nope cant have one without the other


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## Maximumbeans (Jul 26, 2022)

*1. Do you use CFW?*
Yep, recently installed on my N3DS.
*2. Do you think CFW is wrong?*
Not even remotely.
*3. Do you think piracy is wrong?*
I think it depends, and it's very easy to practice moral relativism with piracy. I think pirating games and never paying for them, even brand-new games from small studios, is wrong. I think pirating SNES ROMs so that you can play them on an emulator isn't wrong in the slightest. It really depends on the context.
*4. Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?*
I suppose you can install CFW without pirating games, but then the process kind of relies on hijacking Nintendo systems so in a sense they're irrevocably linked.


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## mrgone (Jul 26, 2022)

- ¿Do you use CFW?
YES
- ¿Do you think CFW is wrong?
NO
- ¿Do you think piracy is wrong?
Wrong if one could buy the games, but doesn't.
Gray area if not yet part of the working class, i.e. pupils/children/students
- ¿Do you think is wrong to automatically relate CFW with piracy?
No, because emulation is basically also piracy


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## LainaGabranth (Jul 27, 2022)

CFW and piracy are inseparably linked, and if I own a video game but my copy is damaged in some way, or I lost my arbitrary CD key, I as a consumer should have the right to continue to play the product either offline or without any multiplayer function whatsoever irregardless of what a bunch of cock mongling corporate lapdogs pay our senators to think.

Piracy is fine, and I think people shouldn't be such pussies about it. Big deal, someone stole a game. They can buy it down the line to make up for the sale, or in the case of DLC practices like Payday 2's, they'll become customers who steadily buy DLC if the game is good enough. More devs should make demos to alleviate this problem.

South America for example notoriously pirated arcade games (well, they notoriously pirate games in general but especially arcade games in the early days of gaming) and made so many changes and advancements to said games that we likely wouldn't have had revisions like Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, one of the most popular fighting games in Capcom's lineup, had piracy just never happened. Games like World of Warcraft are entirely playable at every possible version, from Vanilla, to TBC, all the way up to Cataclysm in near entire states (With WOD, Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands in heavily alpha states but still playable on pirated private server repacks), and even pre-alpha stuff! Piracy is hand in hand with preservation, and without it, we wouldn't have the millions upon millions of games that required dongles, stupid code discs, cd keys, and so on from the Amiga, Commodore, and ZX Spectrum eras of gaming, either.

Many of the games you have today were likely inspired by some games that were only playable through pirated copies and no-cd cracks. Need for Speed Carbon, a game I physically own on my goddamn shelf literally 3 inches from this monitor, is unplayable on modern Windows 10 and 11 installations without the use of a no-CD crack, due to problems with the DRM. This is just one of like, hundreds upon hundreds of games that use SafeDisc and SecuROM that are unplayable in the modern era without, you guessed it, piracy.

So yes, piracy is fucking awesome, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. If you're some Nintendo ring-licking fanboy who thinks piracy of a gamecube game is comparable to 9/11'ing their headquarters, don't even reply to my post, you have nothing of value to say on the subject.


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