# PS4 release 'imminent' if the developers had their own way



## ComeTurismO (Oct 7, 2012)

> more developers seem to be agreeing that *the **PS4 **release should be imminent because the PS3 is maxed out*. This debate has been going on for a while now, *but it’s good to finally get an opinion from some of the biggest developers in the business.*


What do you guys think, about this?
I'm not sure what to say.. But: ...I'm laughing how they say that the PS3 is maxed out..

See this pic:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Source

Definition of imminent: About to happen


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 7, 2012)

2013 seems pretty good.

The PS3 still has some titles to dump out, like The Last of Us. But the PS3 is definitely in the homestretch.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 7, 2012)

I think that Sony should upgrade the GPU and add a ton of RAM to the PS3 and call it the PS4, release it price competitive or undercut the Wii-U. 

The PS3 and 360 have been maxed out for a while now its just a testament to the skills of the coders that they have managed to squeeze what they have out of the machines.

It's time to give the poor guys some more hardware to work with.


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## raulpica (Oct 7, 2012)

That is, if Sony _*HAS*_ a PS4 in development.


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## ComeTurismO (Oct 7, 2012)

raulpica said:


> That is, if Sony _*HAS*_ a PS4 in development.


That is a true fact... 
But.............


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

I'm not sure really. However, the ps3 is bottlenecked primarily by the ram and the poor optimization of the system os. That is largely why most multiplat games play better on the 360. The ps3 may have had a lot of potential, but it's completely lost when a weak link, or rather an oversight, prevents the system from reaching it. However, I think gamers need to prepare themselves for the cost of next gen.  I personally hate the idea of processing power and graphics determining the success or failure of a console. That is why games like final fantasy xiii were trash; the dev(s) spending too much money on everything but making the game an enjoyable experience.


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## notmeanymore (Oct 7, 2012)

raulpica said:


> That is, if Sony _*HAS*_ a PS4 in development.


Let's ask Kevin Butler.

Oh wait.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 7, 2012)

raulpica said:


> That is, if Sony _*HAS*_ a PS4 in development.



I am sure they have some idea of what they are going to do by now, the biggest problem I can see is.... Does Sony have the cash to launch a new system?


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > That is, if Sony _*HAS*_ a PS4 in development.
> ...



at sony, even the vp is sued.


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## KingVamp (Oct 7, 2012)

You think they will try a new thing or do the power game again and change their controller later?


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## raulpica (Oct 7, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > That is, if Sony _*HAS*_ a PS4 in development.
> ...


I'm not sure that investors will back up a PS4 right now. Vita still has to prove its worth and conquer the customers' hearts, and PS3 took way too long to turn to profits. Not exactly the brightest situation for Sony.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 7, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> You think they will try a new thing or do the power game again and change their controller later?



The rumors I have heard to be honest, are that the PS4 is going to be another 599 dollar machine, an incredible piece of hardware but very expensive.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

If you mean going with sheer processing power, I don't believe so. Sony has already stated that they won't be using the cell due to cost. That likely means no ps3 b.c. as well. I'd imagine they'd keep the console no higher than $400 at launch, but will probably release multiple skus like they did originally creating an incentive for buyers to purchase the higher end version. As for the controller, I have no idea.  I haven't heard Sony mention it. Though, considering the 360's controller is often referred to as the best this gen and Nintendo essentially copying it with the wii-u, I'd imagine Sony would release something similar.


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## Walker D (Oct 7, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > You think they will try a new thing or do the power game again and change their controller later?
> ...


Sony already said something on that tone:

"We've never been first. We've never been cheapest.  It's about being the best. If you can build a better machine, and it's going to come out a little bit later, that's better than rushing something to market that's going to run out of gas for the long term”"Ideally, in a perfect world, you want the best machine that ships first, that's cheapest. But the number one goal is to be the best machine, and that's what we're always focused on," says Trenton at 2012’s E3 press conference.​So probably will be expensive.​


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

Letting Nintendo launch first is essentially like handing them the crown which is what's happened with the vita and the 3ds. Plus, I can't really say Sony creates the best machines.  I've had multiple Sony optical drives fail (4)--one even died within a year's time. The company fashions itself as expensive, but they seem to use cheap parts.  I've had a 360 fail (refurbished), and I repaired it three times (reflowing once, but it wasn't worth it in the end (****y xenon garbage), so it's not necessarily Sony.  However, I can say I've never encountered these kinds of problems with a Nintendo console.


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## Giga_Gaia (Oct 7, 2012)

If the PS3 is maxed out (which is still isn't), then an inferior piece of hardware like the 360 has been for years.

However, the PS3 isn't maxed out yet, first party devs still think they can push it further. The PS3 being maxed out is obviously 3rd party talk, since those companies don't know better.


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## Ace Overclocked (Oct 7, 2012)

It'll only be maxed out when versus comes out.


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

PS3 (and 360) have been maxed out already. Developers achieve better graphics by using a sub-native resolution, no anti-aliasing, no AF and running the game at ~30FPS. That's what you guys don't realize.


I think it's due time for a new console.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

Console lifespans should be decreasing rather than increasing considering the pace of tech evolution. The fact of the matter is that the 360, the wii and even the ps3 were obsolete within moments of being released. If gamers want "true power" they're going to have to "pay for it.". That's why I say such things should rest with the pc not with console gaming otherwise you'll be sorely disappointed or broke. I mainly play emulators at this point.


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## KingVamp (Oct 7, 2012)

godreborn said:


> I mainly play emulators at this point.





Tbh,While I didn't believe the amount would be as huge as the wii, I do worry that the others
will try just enough power to swing some games away. That said, who is willing to spend $530-600
on a console when you can get a good PC at that point?


I think that enough for a good PC at that
point.


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## GameWinner (Oct 7, 2012)

Ace Overclocked said:


> It'll only be maxed out when versus comes out.


If that's the case, it'll never be maxed out.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

I just mainly care about the gameplay. Though graphics are important to an extent, I don't need realistic graphics; that just drains the budget. Personally, some of the best games I've played were on the nes, snes, or ps1.


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## chyyran (Oct 7, 2012)

That concept pic is cool


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## Ace Overclocked (Oct 7, 2012)

GameWinner said:


> Ace Overclocked said:
> 
> 
> > It'll only be maxed out when versus comes out.
> ...


Quite the optimist are we?


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## KingVamp (Oct 7, 2012)

godreborn said:


> I just mainly care about the gameplay. Though graphics are important to an extent, I don't need realistic graphics; that just drains the budget. Personally, some of the best games I've played were on the nes, snes, or ps1.


Speaking of budgets, I hope game prices wouldn't go up for the other consoles.


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## Janthran (Oct 7, 2012)

If the PS4 actually looks like that I might have to buy one.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

They're getting up there while also cutting back other costs. The 3ds instruction manuals are just a disgrace. I have seven or eight 3ds games and most, if not all, are nothing but a fold out of like eight pages; some of them don't even explain important game mechanics and they're not even explained in the games themselves.


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

godreborn said:


> They're getting up there while also cutting back other costs. The 3ds instruction manuals are just a disgrace. I have seven or eight 3ds games and most, if not all, are nothing but a fold out of like eight pages; some of them don't even explain important game mechanics and they're not even explained in the games themselves.


3DS manuals have gone digital.







Look at the bottom-left.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

You mean the manual option is present with every game? I never noticed it... that is pretty damn cheap. I guess now we only have to wait for the game cartridge or game disc to be lost in a box instead of providing a game package or disc case. At that point, it might as well go all digital.

kid icarus' options has caused issues since the combining of weapons is not covered in the manual or the game as far as I know.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

godreborn said:


> You mean the manual option is present with every game? I never noticed it... that is pretty damn cheap. I guess now we only have to wait for the game cartridge or game disc to be lost in a box instead of providing a game package or disc case. At that point, it might as well go all digital.
> 
> kid icarus' options has caused issues since the combining of weapons is not covered in the manual or the game as far as I know.


...uhh... no.

A paperback manual is not a make-or-break part of the physical medium distribution deal, it never was. It's fun to read them, they're nice collectibles but I can make do without them easily as long as I have the physical medium itself.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

It's likely to go that way if the console or the portable series is to survive. Many may not like it, but it's really necessary at this point. I personally never plan to buy another console game again digital or otherwise, but it's really at the point of cutting power or going digital.  I guess the consumers will decide. It's kinda foolish though for gamers to think that they can get the best for so little. Either prices are going to become ridiculous or the portable, but especially the console, industry will die. Unfortunately, it's just the way things are. bluray wasn't released to allow consumers to access hd movies on a disc but rather to charge a premium price since dvds had become so cheap. The same is true with all technology so, eventually, the console industry won't be able to keep up with the demands of tech at an affordable price.  that is y I don't think this gen should've opted for the tech race.

@Ace Overclocked, I'm not expecting a walkthrough.  I don't like using walkthroughs for games as it takes the fun out of it. However, the manual doesn't even mention the melding of weapons unless I missed it. Turning a weapon into hearts or whatever?  wtf does that do?  neither the game nor manual mention either. That is just lazy as hell.  if the manual is all digital, why even supply this crappy version with every game?


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

godreborn said:


> bluray wasn't released to allow consumers to access hd movies on a disc but rather to charge a premium price since dvds had become so cheap.


BluRay was released as a result of research into the use of blue laser diodes rather than red laser diodes (which at the time reached the limits of their wavelenght properties) in order to reach higher capacities on a storage medium of similar size. While there was certainly business to be made, first and foremost it was a matter of progress. A single-layer BluRay disc has the capacity of 25GB - it's practically over five 4,7GB single-layer DVD's. This means that using over five times less base materials you can reach the same capacity, and all at just one disc, meaning less hassle with disc-swapping. It's an investment for the future.


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## Giga_Gaia (Oct 7, 2012)

People need to get used to the idea that things will go fully digital eventually. Not for the next generation, but expect the one after that to go digital.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

Giga_Gaia said:


> People need to get used to the idea that things will go fully digital eventually. Not for the next generation, but expect the one after that to go digital.


Maybe some day, but here's for hoping that said day is still far away.


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## Skelletonike (Oct 7, 2012)

Giga_Gaia said:


> People need to get used to the idea that things will go fully digital eventually. Not for the next generation, but expect the one after that to go digital.


I find the digital thing as more of a trend, I had downloading games when I can get a physical copy for the same price or cheaper, steam for example doesn't make any games cheaper, just expensive for me (why buy Skyrim for 49€ for a digital copy, when I got it for 30€ physical? the same applies for pretty much every other game), besides, I enjoy collecting stuff, I like looking and reflecting back, digital stuff aren't as durable and won't last as long, eventually, like it or not, the cloud server will be shut down, even if it's just a long time from now, things'll just disapear, whereas physical copies, as long as you keep them safe, can always be accessed without a need to worry about that.


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## godreborn (Oct 7, 2012)

Except business is the primary motivation for progress. Bluray is not worth the added cost as a media player can do the same without the added cost of discs.

Plus, if a movie sucks it sucks and it's not going to become magically better through hd. The same problem is happening with games: Final fantasy xiii, for example, sucks according to most. It may have great graphics, but that doesn't make for a great game.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 7, 2012)

The whole physical VS Digital distribution thing has been going on since the days of 2800 baud modems.... (Early 80's) and about 30 years later it still has not happened.

The issue is that both technologies are advancing, if physical media stops advancing then digital distribution would eventually over take it....


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## crazyj3ss (Oct 7, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> Giga_Gaia said:
> 
> 
> > People need to get used to the idea that things will go fully digital eventually. Not for the next generation, but expect the one after that to go digital.
> ...



You speak words of extreme wisdom here. +1

That's why I'm gonna keep buying physical copies even if digital does eventually get a discount.


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## AlanJohn (Oct 7, 2012)

We need a new console since developers are forced to lower the quality of their games due to console limitations.


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## tbgtbg (Oct 7, 2012)

It's a poor dev who blames the lower quality of his games on the lack of power of the console.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

With the NextBox, it's pretty obvious that it will be released sometime in 2013 - we already have rumoured specs, leaked photos of the dev unit, reports of the dev unit being used and so-on and so-forth.

Sony on the other hand intends to push the PS4 around 2014 - there's no devkit to speak of, no base design, no nothing - we're looking at at least a 1-year R&D cycle before they're ready with a base infrastructure - we'll be lucky to hear more about the upcoming successor mid-2013, and don't expect a release anytime sooner than 2014.


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## Westside (Oct 7, 2012)

tbgtbg said:


> It's a poor dev who blames the lower quality of his games on the lack of power of the console.


Amen
SNES... amazing collection, less powerful than your modern day wrist watch.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

Westside said:


> SNES... amazing collection, less powerful than your modern day wrist watch.


Don't compare software of the 90' to the software of 2012 and onwards, this isn't about the fun factor but about the hardware requirements for contemporary software solutions.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

For god sake the PS3 is as good as any one might imagine even the Wii U isn’t near that level yet , and yes don’t tell me I’m wrong there is no Game Console in the market today that uses BD discs but the PS3 why would they end the life of game system that is still flourishing.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Westside said:
> 
> 
> > SNES... amazing collection, less powerful than your modern day wrist watch.
> ...



I disagree it is about the fun factor, I did not buy the PS3 until the start of 2009 and that's 3 years ago and every body knows why the BD was so expensive which takes out the fun factor; it's not easy buying a game and most the ps3 game are really short and expensive to make.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

MegaBassBX said:


> I disagree it is about the fun factor, I did not buy the PS3 until the start of 2009 and that's 3 years ago and every body knows why the BD was so expensive which takes out the fun factor; it's not easy buying a game and most the ps3 game are really short and expensive to make.


...and you think that SNES cartridges were not expensive back in '90? The average price for a SNES game was about $60. Not to mention that cartridge-based storage was quite expensive, so the developer got a smaller "cut" as far as profits were concerned.


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## Veho (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ...and you think that SNES cartridges were not expensive back in '90? The average price for a SNES game was about $60.


...and that's before adjusting for inflation. They cost the equivalent of today's $100. 


http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time/


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> MegaBassBX said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree it is about the fun factor, I did not buy the PS3 until the start of 2009 and that's 3 years ago and every body knows why the BD was so expensive which takes out the fun factor; it's not easy buying a game and most the ps3 game are really short and expensive to make.
> ...



No it was like 30 to 40 with some exceptions like Chrono Trigger went to 50 and 60 as you say so it was about the game not the game system


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

MegaBassBX said:


> No it was like 30 to 40 with some exceptions like Chrono Trigger went to 50 and 60 as you say so it was about the game not the game system.


You're comparing two very different markets.

Video game companies were much smaller at the time, the mediums the games were stored on were expensive to produce, the sales of games were considerably lower than nowadays, the developers got smaller cuts, adding the forementioned inflation, the prices *were* high, if not higher than the ones we're paying now. I said that the average price was $60 because some games were available for $40, fair play, but some were sold for $70. If you feel that my assesment is unfair, let's say $50 and leave it there - it's still a high price, especially considering the exchange rates of currency then and now. The 1990's "$50" is easily today's "$80", which is more than you'd pay for your average video game.

Technology went onwards, mediums are cheaper, studios are larger, sales numbers are higher, income is higher and the end product requires more work - it's natural progression and nothing to be feared.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 7, 2012)

I don't really know how this got on the topic of game prices. People simultaneously complain about game prices when they're better (with inflation counted) than older game prices and absolute go gah-gah over great sales like Steam does every day.

If you're really going to "overpriced games" as your argument towards next gen consoles then you're choosing a very bad argument.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> MegaBassBX said:
> 
> 
> > No it was like 30 to 40 with some exceptions like Chrono Trigger went to 50 and 60 as you say so it was about the game not the game system.
> ...



True I do agree it’s just that sony is out of ideas and I know it they pushed the PS3 so hard that there is no space for an upcoming brand new game system.


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## emigre (Oct 7, 2012)

In relation to the price of SNES games in relation to today, here's a good illustration of the prices in relation to the UK.






To put this into context, that above amounts to around £45. A brand new game today in the UK tends to cost £44.99.

EDIT: VAT is 20% now. Fuck you Tories.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

emigre said:


> EDIT: VAT is 20% now. Fuck you Tories.


Oh, don't worry. Poland uses a 23% VAT. EU regulations state that the lowest possible VAT is 15%, so yay!


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I don't really know how this got on the topic of game prices. People simultaneously complain about game prices when they're better (with inflation counted) than older game prices and absolute go gah-gah over great sales like Steam does every day.
> 
> If you're really going to "overpriced games" as your argument towards next gen consoles then you're choosing a very bad argument.



*It count as really big factor , the PS3 was around in late 2006 but I bought it 3 years ago when a Company builds a game system they must think of the whole cost of the game system including the game medium and distribution,also if you notice nintendo never pushed for HD since they know that the consumers can’t afford it, and as history tells us how did nintendo lost the battle at first then won the whole war at the end because they thought about it carefully.*


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

MegaBassBX said:


> True I do agree it’s just that* sony is out of ideas* and I know it they pushed the PS3 so hard that there is no space for an upcoming brand new game system.


Y'see, they _don't need to create anything innovative at this point_. Dual Shock controller scheme works just fine, SIXAXIS adapts into gameplay very well, PSMove can be developed further for Wii-like games, the system already has a camera in the form of an EyeToy since the PS2, it features cross-connectivity with their handheld system, PlayStation's are also media hubs since the PS2... so what more do you really want?

Their consoles already *do a lot of stuff* don't try to fix what ain't broken.



MegaBassBX said:


> It count as really big factor , the PS3 was around in late 2006 but I bought it 3 years ago when a Company builds a game system they must think of the whole cost of the game system including the game medium and distribution,also if you notice nintendo never pushed for HD since they know that the consumers can’t afford it, and as history tells us how did nintendo lost the battle at first then won the whole war at the end because they thought about it carefully.


Nintendo didn't push for HD because *they couldn't afford another failure* after the N64 and the Gamecube flopped - they had some left-over R&D from the Gamecube times and used it in designing the low-cost Wii. I had this discussion a hundred of times, sorry.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

Shit this topic is getting out hand any way back to PS4 my answer is there will never be a PS4 because the market is going Handheld now !!


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> emigre said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: VAT is 20% now. Fuck you Tories.
> ...


And I thought the 15% HST here was bad.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

By the way guys did you know that the next big thing will be I’m augmented reality,and do you know whats after that is mind control it exits but its so in development stage and really expensive when we reach this far what can happen, just imagine.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

MegaBassBX said:


> Shit this topic is getting out hand any way back to PS4 my answer is there will never be a PS4 because the market is going Handheld now !!


It's totally going handheld seeing that we currently have the well-selling 3DS, the Vita which is still in the slow-start phase and the... oh, right, Microsoft doesn't have a portable platform as of yet and isn't in a hurry to enter the market.

Portable games are very different from home console and PC games, they're different markets for different kinds of gamers. Of course, the markets do overlap, but people expect different things from games they play on the go and different things from games they play while they sit in front of a TV or a monitor. The two don't cancel each other out - they complement each other.




MegaBassBX said:


> By the way guys did you know that the next big thing will be I’m augmented reality,and do you know whats after that is *mind control it exits* but its so in development stage and really expensive when we reach this far what can happen, just imagine.


Err...


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

MegaBassBX said:


> By the way guys did you know that the next big thing will be I’m augmented reality,and do you know whats after that is mind control it exits but its so in development stage and really expensive when we reach this far what can happen, just imagine.


Augmented reality is already done with the cameras on the 3DS and Vita.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 7, 2012)

There will always be a distinct handheld and home console market I think. No company would abandon one for the other (if they already had a holding in both markets). Until we reach a point when handheld technology is equal to console technology, it won't happen. The Vita may have good graphics but it isn't nearly as powerful as a PS3 for example. And devs will still want power on consoles and accessibility on handhelds.


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> MegaBassBX said:
> 
> 
> > By the way guys did you know that the next big thing will be I’m augmented reality,and do you know whats after that is mind control it exits but its so in development stage and really expensive when we reach this far what can happen, just imagine.
> ...



Thats way I said the nest step us Mind controller go watch this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH9N2-mLXzg


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> Augmented reality is already done with the cameras on the 3DS and Vita.


Hell, "Augmented Reality" is an uber-old concept - it was done on the PS2 and PSP as well, albeit in a limited fashion.





MegaBassBX said:


> Thats way I said the nest step us Mind controller go watch this video.


Yeah, that's a 2008 video. You probably wanted to say "Mind Controlled", not "Mind Control" - two different concepts, really.  Ah, how phrasing things can change the context...


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## MegaBassBX (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > Augmented reality is already done with the cameras on the 3DS and Vita.
> ...



*Yah and still in development , and yes I did correct myself !!*


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## Fear Zoa (Oct 7, 2012)

Yea the next generation of consoles should be rolling around sometime soon, probably late 2013 - early 2014. For some reason it seems people are mad that this generation of consoles has lasted so long but its not a bad thing. They can't possibly make a new console whenever someone hits the limits of the current ones, nor can they when something better comes around. They simply wait till they've had time to sell a lot of the current ones and start making a new one once its been a while.


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## SinHarvest24 (Oct 7, 2012)

....wasn't it confirmed that the ps4 won't be confirmed for release until 2013....and once that's done it won't be till a year or 2 after, that it'll start production. So basically developers still have to squeeze the ps3 for yet another possible 2-3 years.


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

SinHarvest24 said:


> ....wasn't it confirmed that the ps4 won't be confirmed for release until 2013....and once that's done it won't be till a year or 2 after, that it'll start production. So basically developers still have to squeeze the ps3 for yet another possible 2-3 years.


The PS4 is already in development. If I had to guess, it's probably going to come early 2014 with the Nextbox coming late 2013. They can't give Nintendo too much of a head start.


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## SickPuppy (Oct 7, 2012)

I cannot see purchasing a Sony gaming system. Sony need to lower the price; the new slim that was just released is priced the same as the old slim, or higher. Surely they figured a way to lower manufacturing and hardware costs, and the fact that some features are missing should also lower the cost. Lowering game prices would be a plus too. What about that TOS, Sony needs to add to their TOS that they cannot sue me for anything, and remove the part about me not being able to sue them. Sony needs to up their internet security too, quit being so cheap and protect their customers best interest (private info and credit card numbers). Sony blu-ray movies have ps3 updates hidden in them, is that a low thing to do or what. I look at Sony as a top notch company, but there are some improvements that need to be made my them before I invest my moneys in Sony products.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 7, 2012)

Well low ram, interesting attitudes to storage (on top of being an "instant on" console game) and slightly higher end directX9 vintage graphics hardware..... I am surprised they have managed to string it along for as long as they have (it certainly helped the 360 was in the same boat though).

On developers and their tools.... I am of two minds there 
1) I agree- great times have been had and nobody has yet managed to transcend gameplay design (or indeed consistently do that well at the basics), nor would I be convinced if you said tech is holding back gameplay design per se (faster for more physics and AI I could get behind but it is so far from the only option/possibility).
2) DX11 and equivalent versions of opengl hardware add quite a bit and architecture did change somewhat as well, very much for the positive too, so I can agree that progress might have been held back. Indeed the cross platform development has possibly even started to trouble PC games which is not awesome.

On the slightly more cynical side with the trend being away from optimisation (and if that means a "safe" language is now fast enough that is not all bad) then a refresh that sees some more overhead might not be amiss.

"Games cost more to develop"
I have very serious issues with this statement, I can certainly agree if you are going to hire several kinds of texture artist where you might have not even had one (just got your 3d modeller to do textures) and push things to the very limit then it will certainly cost more, but "great times have been had" means you do not necessarily need all that. I could possibly be persuaded that the new shiny is all that sells and is necessary as a result, but I would want you to demonstrate you are not stuck in a loop and demonstrate that handhelds, mobile phone/tablet games, "indie games" and plain lower cost games are a figment of my imagination, I also hope it is not the case as I am not yet jaded and cynical enough to handle living in that world.

Re games as digital only.
I am reminded of a thread I made a couple of weeks back http://gbatemp.net/topic/331306-discussion-open-source-games-in-a-collapsed-game-industry/ and I would also want to bring in discussion of game monetisation as a whole if I was going to push it further. Saying the industry as it is presently understood is necessary just seems like saying Hollywood as it is presently understood is necessary for video to be made which given I imagine several of us reading barely watch TV or go to the cinema (or indeed may consume more video type stuff from the internet) and such a situation does not even warrant the raising of an eyebrow.....


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## ComeTurismO (Oct 7, 2012)

Agreed with  SinHarvest24. I do think that support for the PS3, Wii, 3DS, and the Vita should still remain. Oh, but I can't forget the NDS.





SickPuppy said:


> I cannot see purchasing a Sony gaming system. Sony need to lower the price; the new slim that was just released is priced the same as the old slim, or higher. Surely they figured a way to lower manufacturing and hardware costs, and the fact that some features are missing should also lower the cost. Lowering game prices would be a plus too. What about that TOS, Sony needs to add to their TOS that they cannot sue me for anything, and remove the part about me not being able to sue them. Sony needs to up their internet security too, quit being so cheap and protect their customers best interest (private info and credit card numbers). Sony blu-ray movies have ps3 updates hidden in them, is that a low thing to do or what. I look at Sony as a top notch company, but there are some improvements that need to be made my them before I invest my moneys in Sony products.


I agree, I don't get crazy for getting games for the PS3 anymore, or for the Vita, I just don't appreciate the pricing.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> I cannot see purchasing a Sony gaming system. Sony need to lower the price; the new slim that was just released is priced the same as the old slim, or higher. Surely they figured a way to lower manufacturing and hardware costs, and the fact that *some features are missing* should also lower the cost. Lowering game prices would be a plus too. What about that TOS, *Sony needs to add to their TOS that they cannot sue me for anything*, and remove the part about *me not being able to sue them*. Sony needs to up *their internet security too*, quit being so cheap and protect their customers best interest (private info and credit card numbers). *Sony blu-ray movies have ps3 updates hidden in them*, is that a low thing to do or what. I look at Sony as a top notch company, but there are some improvements that need to be made my them before I invest my moneys in Sony products.



What features are missing, pray tell?
TOS is not law.
TOS is not law.
They have, it's about time we got over the PSN hacking incident.
Source? I Google'd it, but couldn't find anything.
I only have issues with the bolded parts, the rest has been proven to be a load of croak - PS3 games cost as much as games for competing systems etc. etc.


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## Giga_Gaia (Oct 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> SinHarvest24 said:
> 
> 
> > ....wasn't it confirmed that the ps4 won't be confirmed for release until 2013....and once that's done it won't be till a year or 2 after, that it'll start production. So basically developers still have to squeeze the ps3 for yet another possible 2-3 years.
> ...



Give Nintendo a headstart? Nintendo is like one entire generation late. Seriously, the WiiU is barely a little above the ps3 and 360. Its CPU is apparently worse than current gen and it seems they can't even put the same amount of enemies on screen than ps3/360. The GPU does allow better graphics though, but barely.

Once the real next-gen starts, by that I mean PS4 and NextBox, no offense, but they will be miles ahead of the WiiU. The two of them will probably be capable of better graphics at launch than the WiiU in its entire lifespan. The two of them and the WiiU will be so different, it would be like comparing apples and oranges.

So yeah, Nintendo can get a headstart all they want, since it's not really competition for the other 2.

Beside, Nintendo this time is aiming for the hardcore audience. Well, no offense, this is a big mistake, considering the hardcore audience will wait for a ps4 and nextbox. You won't win them with games like Bayonetta 2. The first one did terribly and it was on ps3 and 360, which by the time of its release, had a much bigger fanbase than the WiiU will have when the second game will be released. Nintendo basically bought rights to a game that will do very bad.


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## SickPuppy (Oct 7, 2012)

Missing from the new slim:
Well, I've read that the IR sensor is missing, so that would be a hardware price reduction.
The little motor that turns on when the disc is inserted or removed, surely a money saving investment.

I cannot remember anything else now from the top of my head, but will dig further.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

Giga_Gaia said:


> Give Nintendo a headstart? Nintendo is like one entire generation late. Seriously, the WiiU is barely a little above the ps3 and 360. Its CPU is apparently worst than current gen and it seems they can't even put the same amount of enemies on screen than ps3/360. The GPU does allow better graphics though, but barely. Once the real next-gen starts, by that I mean PS4 and NextBox, no offense, but they will be miles ahead of the WiiU. The two of them will probably be capable of better graphics at launch than the WiiU in its entire lifespan. The two of them and the WiiU will be so different, it would be like comparing apples and oranges. So yeah, Nintendo can get a headstart all they want, since it's not really competition for the other 2. Beside, Nintendo this time is aiming for the hardcore audience. Well, no offense, this is a big mistake, considering the hardcore audience will wait for a ps4 and nextbox. You won't win them with games like Bayonetta 2. The first one did terribly and it was on ps3 and 360, which by the time of its release, had a much bigger fanbase than the WiiU will have when the second game will be released. Nintendo basically bought rights to a game that will do very bad.


PS2 versus Gamecube versus XBox. 'nough said.

If Nintendo plays this right, the headstart they have now may as well tip the scales to their side. You don't necessarily need to have_ the strongest platform_ - you need to have a platform_ with sufficient power to support current-gen and next-gen games for an affordable price with a nice library of games_. Nintendo has a year to create a fanbase - if they use this time right, the WiiU could be the next PS2. Besides, the CPU is *not* worse than the PS3/360 CPU's, the GPU is *far stronger* than the PS3/360 GPU's and it has far more memory overall - the rest is just a matter of developers getting used to the new SDK.



SickPuppy said:


> Well, I've read that the IR sensor is missing, so that would be a hardware price reduction.
> The little motor that turns on when the disc is inserted or removed, surely a money saving investment.


Never met a single person who actually used an IR port, but fair play - it's missing. As for the motor, that's not really a "feature" you get a higher-capacity HDD to make up for the lower production costs, hence the price remained the same.


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

Giga_Gaia said:


> Give Nintendo a headstart? Nintendo is like one entire generation late. Seriously, the WiiU is barely a little above the ps3 and 360. Its CPU is apparently worse than current gen and it seems they can't even put the same amount of enemies on screen than ps3/360. The GPU does allow better graphics though, but barely.
> 
> Once the real next-gen starts, by that I mean PS4 and NextBox, no offense, but they will be miles ahead of the WiiU. The two of them will probably be capable of better graphics at launch than the WiiU in its entire lifespan. The two of them and the WiiU will be so different, it would be like comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> ...


You sound like one of those Sony PR reps who claimed that the Vita isn't competing against the 3DS. No shit, the Wii U will be competing against the PS4 and Nextbox. They're all home consoles.


Foxi4 already tackled your other points just fine so I won't go on.


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## SinHarvest24 (Oct 7, 2012)

Giga_Gaia said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > SinHarvest24 said:
> ...


My thoughts exactly.

The WiiU will sell well, only because of the fan-base the Wii built.

By the time the ps4/nextbox is release it'll be as Foxi put it "PS2 versus Gamecube versus XBox." all over again.


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## Deleted_171835 (Oct 7, 2012)

SinHarvest24 said:


> By the time the ps4/nextbox is release it'll be as Foxi put it "PS2 versus Gamecube versus XBox." all over again.


I think you missed his point. He means that if Nintendo plays their cards right, the Wii U could be the _PS2_ of the coming gen.


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## SickPuppy (Oct 7, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Giga_Gaia said:
> 
> 
> > Give Nintendo a headstart? Nintendo is like one entire generation late. Seriously, the WiiU is barely a little above the ps3 and 360. Its CPU is apparently worst than current gen and it seems they can't even put the same amount of enemies on screen than ps3/360. The GPU does allow better graphics though, but barely. Once the real next-gen starts, by that I mean PS4 and NextBox, no offense, but they will be miles ahead of the WiiU. The two of them will probably be capable of better graphics at launch than the WiiU in its entire lifespan. The two of them and the WiiU will be so different, it would be like comparing apples and oranges. So yeah, Nintendo can get a headstart all they want, since it's not really competition for the other 2. Beside, Nintendo this time is aiming for the hardcore audience. Well, no offense, this is a big mistake, considering the hardcore audience will wait for a ps4 and nextbox. You won't win them with games like Bayonetta 2. The first one did terribly and it was on ps3 and 360, which by the time of its release, had a much bigger fanbase than the WiiU will have when the second game will be released. Nintendo basically bought rights to a game that will do very bad.
> ...



well, to be honest about hdd prices, the price of a 500GB hdd today probably isn't costing anymore than a 320GB hdd from the past, probably cheaper today for more hdd space, who how really knows since the hdd prices were affected.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

SickPuppy said:


> well, to be honest about hdd prices, the price of a 500GB hdd today probably isn't costing anymore than a 320GB hdd from the past, probably cheaper today for more hdd space, who how really knows since the hdd prices were affected.


The Slim got a price cut recently (before the Super Slim was released) and seeing that for the same price it offers a lower capacity HDD, I'd say that the Super Slim is a good deal for those who value saved space on their shelves as well as higher capacity higher than, say, an IR sensor.


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## SickPuppy (Oct 7, 2012)

What about manufacturing costs? More than likely the new super slim costs less to manufacture, I cannot imagine it costing more as Sony would not produce a new product that cost more to maufacture than the old product, isn't that the purpose of retooling the manufacturing factory. Then there is the size of the product, surely the smaller size has reduced shipping costs.

Reguardless, I already have a slim 160GB with a 2TB attached. I think that the PS3 needs to drop to $200 before I buy another.


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## Gahars (Oct 7, 2012)

Well, sounds good to me. Whatever gets us to the Playstation 9 the fastest.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 7, 2012)

soulx said:


> SinHarvest24 said:
> 
> 
> > By the time the ps4/nextbox is release it'll be as Foxi put it "PS2 versus Gamecube versus XBox." all over again.
> ...



If the PS4 and the next Xbox launch at over $400 the Wii-U will win by default. The world economy is in the dumps and people will want something new and exciting but affordable. 
PS2 sales levels? I can see it depending on what Microsoft and Sony do.... At this point in time its a tough call. 

One thing to consider is that if the Wii-U does sell incredibly well its first year with no competition from Microsoft or Sony, Nintendo will have a chance at doing a price drop right at the launch of the competitions systems... That could prove decisive in overall sales.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 7, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Well, sounds good to me. Whatever gets us to the Playstation 9 the fastest.


Gotta love that ad.


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## Gahars (Oct 7, 2012)

Also, an earlier release date isn't a guaranteed victory. We've seen it this generation (360 released first, the Wii goes on to dominate sales) and last generation (the Dreamcast is released first, the PS2 goes on to dominate sales).

The Wii U may very well benefit from the head start, but nothing is set in stone yet.


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## porkiewpyne (Oct 7, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Well, sounds good to me. Whatever gets us to the Playstation 9 the fastest.


Ahhh good times. I still remember seeing this ad(?) many years back.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Oct 7, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Also, an earlier release date isn't a guaranteed victory. We've seen it this generation (360 released first, the Wii goes on to dominate sales) and last generation (the Dreamcast is released first, the PS2 goes on to dominate sales).
> 
> The Wii U may very well benefit from the head start, but nothing is set in stone yet.



Very true, this is going to be a very interesting generation to watch.


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## narutofan777 (Oct 7, 2012)

im sure sony has been working on the ps4 for awhile now. they'll let wii u take over the next gen for 1 year. its more than enough time for FF Versus to be released by then. tetsuya nomura will be able to start KH 3 after, he has been real busy. I feel sorry for his wife. if the ps4 doesn't have a lot of sales, sony might as well ask se for an updated exclusive final fantasy 7 with the luminous engine. they'll be making big $$$$$. also versus has been in development for more than 5+ years thats why nomura's focus is on the game so they can finish it and start KH 3.


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## Gahars (Oct 7, 2012)

narutofan777 said:


> im sure sony has been working on the ps4 for awhile now. they'll let wii u take over the next gen for 1 year. its more than enough time for FF Versus to be released by then. tetsuya nomura will be able to start KH 3 after, he has been real busy. I feel sorry for his wife. if the ps4 doesn't have a lot of sales, sony might as well ask se for an updated exclusive final fantasy 7 with the luminous engine. they'll be making big $$$$$. also versus has been in development for more than 5+ years thats why nomura's focus is on the game so they can finish it and start KH 3.



...Narutofan, I think you just might be the Michael Pachter of GBAtemp.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 8, 2012)

Gahars said:


> narutofan777 said:
> 
> 
> > im sure sony has been working on the ps4 for awhile now. they'll let wii u take over the next gen for 1 year. its more than enough time for FF Versus to be released by then. tetsuya nomura will be able to start KH 3 after, he has been real busy. I feel sorry for his wife. if the ps4 doesn't have a lot of sales, sony might as well ask se for an updated exclusive final fantasy 7 with the luminous engine. they'll be making big $$$$$. also versus has been in development for more than 5+ years thats why nomura's focus is on the game so they can finish it and start KH 3.
> ...



Or the NarutoFreak of GBAtemp.

Oh wait...


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## Valwin (Oct 8, 2012)

narutofan777 said:


> im sure sony has been working on the ps4 for awhile now. they'll let wii u take over the next gen for 1 year. its more than enough time for FF Versus to be released by then. tetsuya nomura will be able to start KH 3 after, he has been real busy. I feel sorry for his wife. if the ps4 doesn't have a lot of sales, sony might as well ask se for an updated exclusive final fantasy 7 with the luminous engine. they'll be making big $$$$$. also versus has been in development for more than 5+ years thats why nomura's focus is on the game so they can finish it and start KH 3.



i dont think FF7 rehash would be a System seller  and FF Versus was cancelled


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## AceWarhead (Oct 8, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > How did this topic turn to Kid Icarus?
> ...


For a second, I thought Kid Icarus was being ported to the PS4...


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## DSGamer64 (Oct 8, 2012)

Sony never seems to consider the economy or what the market will truly take when it comes to pricing, which is why the PS3 was such a colossal failure for the first few years. The PS2 at release was marketed at a higher price point then the competition which released a bit later, but it also offered DVD playback capability, something Nintendo wasn't offering at the time. I think that in the long run, if Sony intends on being profitable, they need to release a console that is competitively priced and offers the same kind of functions that other systems don't have. No doubt they will be using Blu Ray again since it seems to be the future of digital media, but the PS4 needs to have backwards compatibility at launch (though that would mean using a POWER8 or similar CPU in order to emulate the Cell processor of the PS3). Sony also needs to have a considerably faster Blu Ray drive at release, the one in the PS3 is far too slow for how large future discs will be.


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## Rasas (Oct 8, 2012)

DSGamer64 said:


> Sony never seems to consider the economy or what the market will truly take when it comes to pricing, which is why the PS3 was such a colossal failure for the first few years. The PS2 at release was marketed at a higher price point then the competition which released a bit later, but it also offered DVD playback capability, something Nintendo wasn't offering at the time. I think that in the long run, if Sony intends on being profitable, they need to release a console that is competitively priced and offers the same kind of functions that other systems don't have. No doubt they will be using Blu Ray again since it seems to be the future of digital media, but the PS4 needs to have backwards compatibility at launch (though that would mean using a POWER8 or similar CPU in order to emulate the Cell processor of the PS3). Sony also needs to have a considerably faster Blu Ray drive at release, the one in the PS3 is far too slow for how large future discs will be.


Pretty much this and I fear a similar situation with the PSP might happen where people won't adopt the newer system or go for another one like a Nintendo product. With most of Sony's studios making western style games the Japanese market will lose even more reason to purchase one with multiplatform games that might be on the probably cheaper Wii U.


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