# Russian vlogger gets 3.5 year sentence for playing Pokemon GO in a church



## The Catboy (May 11, 2017)

It's like Russia is just trying to prove to the world just how shitty a place it is.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 11, 2017)

Uhhhhhhh.. Jail time for playing a game in church? K


----------



## 8BitWonder (May 11, 2017)

Prans said:


> Was the verdict fair in finding Sokolovsky guilty who on top of clearly the country's anti-blasphemy law, additionally breached the terms of his house arrest?



I mean yeah, the law was there saying you couldn't. But that doesn't make it more fair and not as ridiculous of a law.


----------



## Taffy (May 11, 2017)

uhhhhh...

Okay so this is...unusual.

society, why are you going downhill like this????


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 11, 2017)

I don't know.
I am not a believer, I just don't believe in Russia.
As long as Putin is in the head I can only see it as a more resourceful version of North Korea and the Hezbollah-aiding Argentine-Jewish-Community-Bombing Iran combined. Salutes to the good people of Russia, Iran and North Korea! /s

<and the next day sarkwalvein was found mysteriously dead of natural causes after drinking some polonium-210 sweetened cup of coffee>


----------



## _v3 (May 11, 2017)

Lycanroc said:


> -snip-



Even though I'm not a believer myself I don't think it's fair to mock someone's beliefs.

But yea, if there's a law in place that says you should NOT be doing something, then you should NOT do it, no matter how stupid it is.


----------



## Deleted User (May 11, 2017)

This religion crap is getting out of everyone's hand.
I mean, why go to church in first place? It's nothing than random 'sacred' relics [Aka plastic figurines and other stuff] but I'm a atheist so i shouldn't comment.
And thanks god that Government isn't abusing too much power here, this is what happens when you treat your presidents as lord of the whole world.
/end of debate


----------



## Madridi (May 11, 2017)

I don't get it.. Sure, the law may or not be dumb. That's a separate discussion.

BUT:

I mean, what does he expect? Regardless of his feelings towards the law, but if he think he's "all that" by publicly breaking the law and bragging about it by posting videos and such, then what does he really expect?

Even after all that, it's a SUSPENDED sentence (Really, @Prans, you should probably highlight that.)

I would say he gets what he deserves for breaking the law. The fact that he doesn't agree with the law doesn't give him the right to break it.


----------



## Flame (May 11, 2017)

In Soviet Russia team Rocket wins and sends you to prison.


----------



## dragonmaster (May 11, 2017)

quote :In Soviet Russia team Rocket wins and sends you to prison.

you may need to do a little history research there is no soviet russia, the other point to pinpoint is that the other pole usa is acting like a spoiled brat,well both of them do. There is a word for everything propaganda of both sites and we are caught in the middle...


----------



## retrofan_k (May 11, 2017)

Typical religious crap again, causing more harm than good and if it wasn't Russia, it be somewhere else in the world and they always need a fall guy to blame.  Ridiculous


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 11, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Uhhhhhhh.. Jail time for playing a game in church? K



>  a 3.5-year suspended sentence.

At least he didn't go to prison, how long was in jail? Looks like he was out on bail since he breached the bail agreement.


----------



## Flame (May 11, 2017)

dragonmaster said:


> quote :In Soviet Russia team Rocket wins and sends you to prison.
> 
> you may need to do a little history research there is no soviet russia, the other point to pinpoint is that the other pole usa is acting like a spoiled brat,well both of them do. There is a word for everything propaganda of both sites and we are caught in the middle...



1st learn to quote like me.

2nd you are from greece where you would get hanged for doing such thing it wasnt for you being part of E.U. knowing how strong the church is in greece.


3rd: no shit they is not Soviet Russia do you even internet?


----------



## Hayleia (May 11, 2017)

dragonmaster said:


> quote :In Soviet Russia team Rocket wins and sends you to prison.
> 
> you may need to do a little history research there is no soviet russia, the other point to pinpoint is that the other pole usa is acting like a spoiled brat,well both of them do. There is a word for everything propaganda of both sites and we are caught in the middle...


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-soviet-russia


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 11, 2017)

Madridi said:


> Even after all that, it's a SUSPENDED sentence (Really, @Prans, you should probably highlight that.)
> 
> I would say he gets what he deserves for breaking the law. The fact that he doesn't agree with the law doesn't give him the right to break it.



Agreed misleading title. Some people and I think they are probably privileged/entitled feeling, think they can break laws they don't agree with. You can't. You need to fight the law in a legal way. Being a "vlogger" he likely never expected the law would turn against him. If he were a black american he'd know better.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (May 11, 2017)

wolfmankurd said:


> >  a 3.5-year suspended sentence.
> 
> At least he didn't go to prison, how long was in jail? Looks like he was out on bail since he breached the bail agreement.


Okay, technical details aside. The only thing that should have mattered was him breaking house arrest. Him playing a game in church shouldn't have been so much of a problem. 


"Inciting hatred".. Yeah, okay.


----------



## smile72 (May 11, 2017)

I'm honestly not shocked by this. Russia is increasingly getting worse and Putin is using the church as a way to secure power. Russia is incredibly scary.


----------



## eduall (May 11, 2017)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> It's like Russia is just trying to prove to the world just how shitty a place it is.


u're right!


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 11, 2017)

eduall said:


> u're right!


You certainly know about those things being from Vergüenzuela and all. /s


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

I don't know If we should spare Satanism after purging Christianity and Islam.


----------



## Deleted User (May 11, 2017)

lolololol he deserves it. this church is more then a religious place. its inapropriate to play this fucking shitty game in such a place..  (and I am not a christian, in fact im non believer


----------



## Clydefrosch (May 11, 2017)

jesus would you fix the title to be less inaccurate and clickbaity??

playing pokemon in church is just one thing next to the clearly more serious violation of house arrest (in case that was some kind of state side punishment for another delict) and insulting religions on his channel.
now i can't say how badly he insulted religion, or if those were literally just off-hand comments. but people living in russia would know that this kind of stuff is taken somewhat serious over there.


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> jesus would you fix the title to be less inaccurate and clickbaity??
> 
> playing pokemon in church is just one thing next to the clearly more serious violation of house arrest (in case that was some kind of state side punishment for another delict) and insulting religions on his channel.
> now i can't say how badly he insulted religion, or if those were literally just off-hand comments. but people living in russia would know that this kind of stuff is taken somewhat serious over there.


I don't really understand how Christianity survived SU's purge.


----------



## rastsan (May 11, 2017)

Okay so just last week and the weekend before it both kids that are part of my life had religious events.  the 13 years old went through confirmation
the 8 year old communion.  
I agree whole heartedly with no games or electronic distractions in church.  The 13 year old had just went through confirmation and there he was 2 days later with his nintendo switch in the church thinking it would be okay to play while his brother went for/through communion... 
I have a grandmother who is a care taker for a church.  the only games anyone should be playing in the church are games that support the church or the greater community.  ANYTHING that shows even a hint of disrespect should not be done.  
He went out of his way to be disrespectful.  I don't care if he apologized or not.  There are other things he can do to get attention than being as disrespectful as he was being.  while one could argue that he brought attention to that church he did do it the wrong way.  If the company who deals with pokemon sees this I strongly hope you remove any events that deal with pokemon caught on religious land.  Especially in countries that have that expressly put into law.  

wow just wow... its one thing for kids who don't know better another for an adult purposely breaking the law.


----------



## Windowlicker (May 11, 2017)

I'm an atheist, but the guy was fucking retarded if you ask me. He did all this just to provoke the church if you search about it a little more. I wouldn't jail him, but he still knew his actions would have repercussions.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> I agree whole heartedly with no games or electronic distractions in church.


I agree with that, it is just disrespectful, and if you don't care and are not going to pay attention just don't go to the church.
That said, I don't think this is a matter to be taken care by the law.
Still the guy is either a disrespectful jerk, or a rebellious overgrown teen.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Elysium420 said:


> I'm an atheist, but the guy was fucking retarded if you ask me. He did all this just to provoke the church if you search about it a little more. I wouldn't jail him, but he still knew his actions would have repercussions.


He was clearly making a statement. He expected them and wanted them to come after him to bring attention to how fucked this is. How is that retarded? By this logic Rosa Parks and MLK are retarded too.


----------



## Hayleia (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> He was clearly making a statement. He expected them and wanted them to come after him to bring attention to how fucked this is. How is that retarded? By this logic Rosa Parks and MLK are retarded too.


Not a bullshit argument, but MLK and Rosa Parks were fighting for a cause that they could win. Fighting with the church is pointless. You can't convince them. It's not that they know they're wrong and just don't want things to change, they just believe you're wrong.


----------



## rastsan (May 11, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Okay, technical details aside. The only thing that should have mattered was him breaking house arrest. Him playing a game in church shouldn't have been so much of a problem.
> 
> 
> "Inciting hatred".. Yeah, okay.


If you don't feel it I am telling you - he just inspired hatred in me.  Its a place of worship where former heads of state were killed in.  some guy takes a video of him playing a video game FOR THE PURPOSE OF BEING DISRESPECTFUL.  disrespectful to his country, to a any who are part of that religion, to any who like me feel that there are just some things you don't do.


----------



## Wolfvak (May 11, 2017)

Prans said:


> [...]Pokémon*s*[...]


... sigh

I mean, he was fully aware it's against the law, it's not like he can blame anyone for what happened. Then again, it's kinda... ridiculous?


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> If you don't feel it I am telling you - he just inspired hatred in me.  Its a place of worship where former heads of state were killed in.  some guy takes a video of him playing a video game FOR THE PURPOSE OF BEING DISRESPECTFUL.  disrespectful to his country, to a any who are part of that religion, to any who like me feel that there are just some things you don't do.


Do you not believe in free speech and the right to offend another person?


----------



## MrJason005 (May 11, 2017)

dragonmaster said:


> quote :In Soviet Russia team Rocket wins and sends you to prison.
> 
> you may need to do a little history research there is no soviet russia, the other point to pinpoint is that the other pole usa is acting like a spoiled brat,well both of them do. There is a word for everything propaganda of both sites and we are caught in the middle...


Don't make this political please (Ξέρεις...).


----------



## Vipera (May 11, 2017)

Law and religion should be completely different.

He was a jackass in the house of the Lord? Great! Kick him out, excommunicate him, anything but _arrest_ him. At the very extent, he should have been sued for defamation. Then again, they did have this shitty law in place and that's just wrong.


----------



## matthi321 (May 11, 2017)

that was stupid of him he can only blame himself


----------



## rastsan (May 11, 2017)

For me this isn't about free speech its about a guy who knew better about doing something really disrespectful and against the law.  For some reason the videos are still up... Part of the sentence should have been to take them down.  In fact I get the free speech thing but wasn't about free speech or his tactic would have been different.  Organize a protest, other legal and perfectly good ways to change the law were available.  Does this article talk about that in any way?  NO.  That right there is pretty telling.  its a disrespectful guy.  Now me going to request this thread being shut down.


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 11, 2017)

Hayleia said:


> Not a bullshit argument, but MLK and Rosa Parks were fighting for a cause that they could win. Fighting with the church is pointless. You can't convince them. It's not that they know they're wrong and just don't want things to change, they just believe you're wrong.



He's just entitled he didn't expect any serious backlash. MLK and Rosa Parks did expect backlash.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> Now me going to request this thread being shut down.


LOLNO. Safe space too much.


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> For me this isn't about free speech its about a guy who knew better about doing something really disrespectful and against the law.  For some reason the videos are still up... Part of the sentence should have been to take them down.  In fact I get the free speech thing but wasn't about free speech or his tactic would have been different.  Organize a protest, other legal and perfectly good ways to change the law were available.  Does this article talk about that in any way?  NO.  That right there is pretty telling.  its a disrespectful guy.  Now me going to request this thread being shut down.


Free speech is not about protecting speech you agree with, it is about protecting speech you don't agree with. Speech that everyone agrees with does not need protection. 

Yes he did this knowing it was illegal, but this was to challenge the ridiculous law. 

If someone offends you, all you have to do is stop listening. It's not like he physically damaged the church, he just spoke his mind and recorded himself. A law that restricts you from voicing your own opinions is an unjust law.

Can these people seriously not stand to have their feefees hurt?


----------



## flame1234 (May 11, 2017)

There aren't blasphemy laws in the United States. It's not like we (in the United States) don't have WAY more prisoners per capita than the next closest nation. Also, our constitution means blasphemy laws are unconstitutional. Our politicians make religion-based decisions all the time, but you'll never have people going to jail in this country for defaming or denouncing the name of god. Defacing places of worship is a property crime (damaging someone else's property). Playing Pokemon Go there - because places of worship are sometimes public places - would probably just get you asked to leave and nothing more.

By the way, Russia is #2 for prisoners per capita. It's like 2/3 of the amount the USA has. This isn't a race you want to win, folks.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Hayleia said:


> Not a bullshit argument, but MLK and Rosa Parks were fighting for a cause that they could win. Fighting with the church is pointless. You can't convince them. It's not that they know they're wrong and just don't want things to change, they just believe you're wrong.


There were plenty of people who didn't believe they were wrong throughout history and they ended up on the wrong side of history because people spoke up. Nothing will change if no one protests. MLK spoke up to people who believed he was wrong and he got jailed for it. This guy is doing the same thing: fighting for a minority being discriminated against. Its like the Master in fallout. He was set in the belief he was right until he was shown why his deep set beliefs were hsrmful.


----------



## tatumanu (May 11, 2017)

Excuse me but after what happened to Pussy Riot this does not shock me at all. It's highly unfair and vengeful his sentence non the less.


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

By the way, in case anyone was curious. The church did not exist at the time that the Romanovs were killed. They were murdered in the basement of a house (which the soviets later demolished). The church was built after the fall of the Soviet Union to commemorate the Imperial family. The location of the altar is supposedly situated exactly where Nicholas II was shot.


----------



## Windowlicker (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> He was clearly making a statement. He expected them and wanted them to come after him to bring attention to how fucked this is. How is that retarded? By this logic Rosa Parks and MLK are retarded too.


You don't fight an oppressive government by playing Pokemon inside a church, I am pretty sure of that.


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

Elysium420 said:


> You don't fight an oppressive government by playing Pokemon inside a church, I am pretty sure of that.


You don't fight an oppressive government by playing Pokemon inside a church _*sitting on a bus*_, I am pretty sure of that.


----------



## leonmagnus99 (May 11, 2017)

this is way too harsh :l


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Elysium420 said:


> You don't fight an oppressive government by playing Pokemon inside a church, I am pretty sure of that.


What hes doing is irrelivent. The point is that he is spitting in the face of the oppressive government and encouraging others to follow suit.


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> What hes doing is irrelivent. The point is that he is spitting in the face of the oppressive government and encouraging others to follow suit.


Has There been any rebillion that ended with self-disbanding rather than seazing power after winning?


----------



## Windowlicker (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> What hes doing is irrelivent. The point is that he is spitting in the face of the oppressive government and encouraging others to follow suit.


Guess what. No one followed him because his act was pathetic, that's why. Want rights? Go fight for them.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 11, 2017)

It's Russia, what did you expect? They respect freedoms as much as a vegan and vegetarian enjoys enjoys meat. Not the ideal location for human rights IMO.


----------



## death360 (May 11, 2017)

Welp thats what happens when you break the law.  Although three years would be a bit too much.


----------



## rastsan (May 11, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Free speech is not about protecting speech you agree with, it is about protecting speech you don't agree with. Speech that everyone agrees with does not need protection.
> 
> Yes he did this knowing it was illegal, but this was to challenge the ridiculous law.
> 
> ...




Would you go to a church that allowed someone to break the law in it?  That allowed a guy to be disrespectful to his own country?  how about this if he didn't like his country that much he should have done the smart thing wait out his sentence and then left.  AGIAN I don't see anywhere in this "this is my legal fight I think this law is wrong help me fight it.".  I see a guy playing a game in church when he had better options than that.  sure he is playing a game... sure I would politely ask the guy to stop playing and or leave, I would even offer to take him somewhere else that that activity would be more acceptable but aiding him breaking a law?  NO. 
You see the law as ridiculous.  I see this as way more than that.  
As a conservator (museum conservator) that church is not just a religious site its historical one as well.  he is not just being disrespectful to that religion he is being _disrespectful to the history that happened in that church_.  He went out of his way to do this when that same effort could have been better spent on better approaches.  Is he putting any effort now into fighting that law?  put the link up if he is!   is there a petition?  is there a protest?  is there any activity designed to raise money to fight the law?  is there a lawyer or lawyers helping him fight the law?  Or is this just some guy getting attention and continuing to be disrespectful to the people he just apologized to by letting that/those video(s) stay up?  
his point was made "as part of my apology I am taking the video down. "   has that happened?  

Its just him playing a video game doesn't cover this.   If you think I sound furious its because I am.  
I will fully support a thread started to help fight x law in x country but a thread that openly disrespects religion or people no...  that should be enough said


----------



## Skelletonike (May 11, 2017)

As a religious person and someone who loves his own country, I find what that guy did rude as hell.

While I am a Christian, I would not do things that would be rude to other religions, nor would I be rude to customs and cultures as a whole.

If you're an atheist, good for you, you're free to believe or not believe in whatever you want, however, that does not give you the right to insult other religions and cultural beliefs, that is exactly what he was doing.

Also, while government and religion are separate, the majority of the population in most western countries is religious. A country's leader cannot do something that would offend that majority.

While I do not agree that he should get jail sentence just for what he did, he should make amends somehow.


----------



## duffmmann (May 11, 2017)

If a place is deemed sacred by any country, just respect it.  You may not think the place is anything special, but others understandably do.  I'm actually siding with Russia on this one.  I feel for the guy, but if you feel weird taking your smartphone out to play Pokemon Go, which I would think most people would inside of a church, then you should probably recognize those weird feelings and not play the game there.


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> Would you go to a church that allowed someone to break the law in it?  That allowed a guy to be disrespectful to his own country?  how about this if he didn't like his country that much he should have done the smart thing wait out his sentence and then left.  AGIAN I don't see anywhere in this "this is my legal fight I think this law is wrong help me fight it.".  I see a guy playing a game in church when he had better options than that.  sure he is playing a game... sure I would politely ask the guy to stop playing and or leave, I would even offer to take him somewhere else that that activity would be more acceptable but aiding him breaking a law?  NO.
> You see the law as ridiculous.  I see this as way more than that.
> As a conservator (museum conservator) that church is not just a religious site its historical one as well.  he is not just being disrespectful to that religion he is being _disrespectful to the history that happened in that church_.  He went out of his way to do this when that same effort could have been better spent on better approaches.  Is he putting any effort now into fighting that law?  put the link up if he is!   is there a petition?  is there a protest?  is there any activity designed to raise money to fight the law?  is there a lawyer or lawyers helping him fight the law?  Or is this just some guy getting attention and continuing to be disrespectful to the people he just apologized to by letting that/those video(s) stay up?
> his point was made "as part of my apology I am taking the video down. "   has that happened?
> ...


While I agree that the guy is offending people - the bottom line is that I believe free speech should be protected.

I can understand if you don't believe in the right to free speech (or if you believe in specific limitations of free speech) - after all morals and ethics are relative.

But you should accept that you are not a supporter of free speech (and civil disobedience).

I think you were spot on though when you said the correct solution was asking this guy to leave. Think about this, what is the purpose of imprisonment and jail? It's for a man to pay his dues for the crime he committed - therefore it should be proportional to the crime that he committed and the people that he hurt. But how do you quantize hurting someone else's feelings? If anything the most proportional punishment should be community service. Don't you think a 3.5 year sentence is a bit disproportionate?


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Yil said:


> Has There been any rebillion that ended with self-disbanding rather than seazing power after winning?


Yes.


Elysium420 said:


> Guess what. No one followed him because his act was pathetic, that's why. Want rights? Go fight for them.


Not to harp on MLK but I guess hes pathetic too because he protested rather than fighting people lol.


----------



## Windowlicker (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Not to harp on MLK but I guess hes pathetic too because he protested rather than fighting people lol.


You literally compare someone who played Pokemon inside a church to someone who actually protested while putting his life on the line. Think before you speak, please.


----------



## DjoeN (May 11, 2017)

I don't agree, but there are laws for a reason.
If i would be playing Pokemon GO in church, i would only get a warning and bad looks from other people in church.
Cities here can have there own laws regarding disturbing the neighbourhood, but those are little fines you have to pay.
Like for example €20 euro for sitting on a public bench on the backrest with your feet on the seating part, €25 for Walking in the grass where it's not allowed 
etc... but that all depend on the city you're in and the mood of the police or local politicians


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Elysium420 said:


> You literally compare someone who played Pokemon inside a church to someone who actually protested while putting his life on the line. Think before you speak, please.


Because its comparable lmao. Think before you speak please. They both were being oppressed by unfair governments and decided to speak out by doing what their government told them they arent allowed to. They both were arrested for doing this. MLK faced more violence for sure but that doesnt mean this guy is a pussy. Please just stop trying to insult a guy for speaking out against oppressive leaders.


----------



## Vipera (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> As a conservator (museum conservator) that church is not just a religious site its historical one as well.  he is not just being disrespectful to that religion he is being _disrespectful to the history that happened in that church_.


It's a Christian church in Russia. What kind of history do you think you would find? As an European, I laugh at that. Being born in a country with double the percentage of Christians as Russia, I laugh even harder.

If you really are a conservator, you should know better that the only thing that should be punishable by law is vandalism. That's the only way you are truly damaging the historical sites, not by playing a game in a church. We heavily criticize Muslims for wanting to impose their ways on people and then we allow such retarded laws to take place. This is not right.


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

Vipera said:


> It's a Christian church in Russia. What kind of history do you think you would find? As an European, I laugh at that. Being born in a country with double the percentage of Christians as Russia, I laugh even harder.
> 
> If you really are a conservator, you should know better that the only thing that should be punishable by law is vandalism. That's the only way you are truly damaging the historical sites, not by playing a game in a church. We heavily criticize Muslims for wanting to impose their ways on people and then we allow such retarded laws to take place. This is not right.


The history he is referencing is that the church was built over the site where the last Tsar was murdered with his family.


----------



## Windowlicker (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Because its comparable lmao. Think before you speak please. They both were being oppressed by unfair governments and decided to speak out by doing what their government told them they arent allowed to. They both were arrested for doing this. MLK faced more violence for sure but that doesnt mean this guy is a pussy. Please just stop trying to insult a guy for speaking out against oppressive leaders.


Problem is, anyone can support a just cause. What matters is HOW you show your support for that exact cause. That guy didn't prove anything. Putin didn't move an inch by what he did. Anyone can be a pseudo rebel. He does not deserve praise.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Elysium420 said:


> Problem is, anyone can support a just cause. What matters is HOW you show your support for that exact cause. That guy didn't prove anything. Putin didn't move an inch by what he did. Anyone can be a pseudo rebel. He does not deserve praise.


Someone has to do something first. Maybe people will follow in his footsteps and it will start a change. Maybe it wont. But hes trying which is more than you or I are doing.


----------



## samcambolt270 (May 11, 2017)

Are they actually trying to make russia sound worse than people already think it is?


----------



## Windowlicker (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Someone has to do something first. Maybe people will follow in his footsteps and it will start a change. Maybe it wont. But hes trying which is more than you or I are doing.


"Trying" could mean "wanting to gather tons of views", but to be completely honest, I can't prove that.


----------



## Hayleia (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> There were plenty of people who didn't believe they were wrong throughout history and they ended up on the wrong side of history because people spoke up. Nothing will change if no one protests. MLK spoke up to people who believed he was wrong and he got jailed for it. This guy is doing the same thing: fighting for a minority being discriminated against. Its like the Master in fallout. He was set in the belief he was right until he was shown why his deep set beliefs were hsrmful.


But did they really believe MLK was wrong? Maybe they knew he was right but didn't want to acknowledge it. So yeah, people had to speak up and get jailed for telling the truth until everyone realizes that yeah, that's actually the truth.
That guy here on the other hand fought against people who really believe he was wrong, and got problems for not agreeing with _their_ truth. And you can't change _their_ truth, you're going to do it with your arguments? They have _their_ """arguments""".

Now yeah, I don't disagree with you on the fact that I'm not against people speaking up if it works. I just don't think it does in that particular case.


----------



## x65943 (May 11, 2017)

Hayleia said:


> But did they really believe MLK was wrong? Maybe they knew he was right but didn't want to acknowledge it. So yeah, people had to speak up and get jailed for telling the truth until everyone realizes that yeah, that's actually the truth.
> That guy here on the other hand fought against people who really believe he was wrong, and got problems for not agreeing with _their_ truth. And you can't change _their_ truth, you're going to do it with your arguments? They have _their_ """arguments""".
> 
> Now yeah, I don't disagree with you on the fact that I'm not against people speaking up if it works. I just don't think it does in that particular case.


Many people in the US _still_ think that MLK was wrong. Rampant racism is widespread here. 

MLK was fighting against racist people at a time when black americans were still being lynched for looking at a white girl wrong.


----------



## ned (May 11, 2017)

That's what you get for not playing Tetris.


----------



## Benuno (May 11, 2017)

If not mentioned before: I don't think this is some kind of anti-freedom thing. I mean there are f.e. landlords who do not allow you to bring pets into their apartment. If you don't agree with that you just go to an other place. How I see it Russia just shows some respect to religious people by this penalty (although it's too excessive IMO).


----------



## Bladexdsl (May 11, 2017)

jeez they don't fuck around in russia!


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 11, 2017)

rastsan said:


> Would you go to a church that allowed someone to break the law in it?


I wouldn't go to a church without a reason actually.
Well, if I went to a church it would be with some certain purpose and being respectful.
And to be completely honest, my judgement of the given church would depend on what law was being broken, but most probably I wouldn't like the idea.



rastsan said:


> That allowed a guy to be disrespectful to his own country?


I couldn't care less about this. I don't like this whole idea of nationalism TBH, and I expect to receive backlash but who cares.



rastsan said:


> how about this if he didn't like his country that much he should have done the smart thing wait out his sentence and then left.  AGIAN I don't see anywhere in this "this is my legal fight I think this law is wrong help me fight it.".  I see a guy playing a game in church when he had better options than that.  sure he is playing a game... sure I would politely ask the guy to stop playing and or leave, I would even offer to take him somewhere else that that activity would be more acceptable but aiding him breaking a law?  NO.


Asking him to leave is the most appropriate thing IMHO.
The guy seems like a dumb overgrown rebellious teenager in my eyes.



rastsan said:


> You see the law as ridiculous.  I see this as way more than that.
> As a conservator (museum conservator) that church is not just a religious site its historical one as well.  he is not just being disrespectful to that religion he is being _disrespectful to the history that happened in that church_.  He went out of his way to do this when that same effort could have been better spent on better approaches.  Is he putting any effort now into fighting that law?  put the link up if he is!   is there a petition?  is there a protest?  is there any activity designed to raise money to fight the law?  is there a lawyer or lawyers helping him fight the law?  Or is this just some guy getting attention and continuing to be disrespectful to the people he just apologized to by letting that/those video(s) stay up?
> his point was made "as part of my apology I am taking the video down. "   has that happened?
> 
> ...


I don't see that much reason to be furious.
The guy is a disrespectful jerk, true.
Take him out, don't let him enter again.
Actually, I really don't think being furious would be a logical reaction.
Feeling pity, seeing this person is dumb as fuck and thinks he is not, I understand.
Feeling impotence, as you can't make him reason and turn into a better person, I understand.
But fury? It is not like he was breaking property, he was just being a disrespectful asshole that could be put outside.


----------



## borka (May 11, 2017)

Well, as it is seen from the inside. After the collapse of the Communism/Marxism religion there was a so-called ideological "vacuum" - everybody believed in what he liked. It was terrible since it could lead to the freedom of speech, to the strong thinking citizens and even to the democracy (but it doesn't exist - it is another topic though).

And now the government tries hard to find a state ideology. And it turns back to the pre-communist history, to the Russian Orthodox Church always being a second (if not first) state power. Russian Church always supported any regime, any government, communist or Tatar-and-Mongol, and doing now this actively.

2016-2018 year. My sub-district. 10 schools are planned to be build from the state budget and (hold on) 26 churches.

So, this case and previous - with some girl band playing in the church. It is a clear and precise message to the plebs that the Church is Government and should be treated as such. With all respect and fear. And if you want to be a "patriot" and "good citizen" you should go to the Church (for your mind to be conditioned).


----------



## DarkGabbz (May 11, 2017)




----------



## Hells Malice (May 11, 2017)

As stupid as Russia's laws are, he's the fucking idiot for KNOWING them and yet still VIOLATING them.
What a moron.


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Not to harp on MLK but I guess hes pathetic too because he protested rather than fighting people lol.


Mind giving an example? No fiction. Also not one of those 'fuck order' kind of guy.


----------



## RustInPeace (May 11, 2017)

Denny don't plan too much, it may not come out right...


----------



## Joe88 (May 11, 2017)




----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Yil said:


> Mind giving an example? No fiction. Also not one of those 'fuck order' kind of guy.


I dont remember women taking over after protesting for rights, or black people, or many other groups throughout history. I dont say why atheists in Russia would be any different.


----------



## EmanueleBGN (May 11, 2017)

Correct! A Church is not a park, it's not a too hard law, it's common sense


----------



## osaka35 (May 11, 2017)

If you want to know why most countries like their very rigid "Separation of church and state", this is why.

When a law that boils down to "this offends me" is the sole reason someone gets jail time, then something is really borked with your laws.


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> I dont remember women taking over after protesting for rights, or black people, or many other groups throughout history. I dont say why atheists in Russia would be any different.


Okay I was talking about any group that went through war.


----------



## kuwanger (May 11, 2017)

Amazing amount of boot lickers, here.  There is something fundamentally wrong with blasphemy laws for many reasons.  One major one is they tend to be disingenuous.  As noted, in Soviet Russia officially something like 98% of the populace was atheist.  Now, we have most people claiming to be Christian?  This sort of thing can and has lead to bloody purges:  English history has just awesome stories of repeated Catholic/Protestant purges as a new King/Queen took over.  The other major reason blasphemy laws are absurd is that there's no reason Nintendo shouldn't claim a disrespect of Pokemon is blasphemy or claims of immaculate conception are a blasphemy of atheism.  Ie, it is more a political tool than anything else.

It's why the argument that Ruslan Sokolovsky was "uppity" or "had it coming" are absurd.  The law is wrong.  That he got a 3.5 year sentence that was promptly suspended just proves the point.  That it is so rarely enforced proves the point.  The law is a club to punish dissent.  Dissent is an inherent part of human nature, though.  People rarely agree on anything and using the law to punish people for it is merely a means of arbitrary abuse of individuals.

So, no matter the size of the injustice, be it the oppression of a whole group of people or merely dissenting views, this should not be tolerated.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Yil said:


> Okay I was talking about any group that went through war.


How is war relevant? No one is talking about war, just protest.


----------



## Hayleia (May 11, 2017)

x65943 said:


> Many people in the US _still_ think that MLK was wrong. Rampant racism is widespread here.
> 
> MLK was fighting against racist people at a time when black americans were still being lynched for looking at a white girl wrong.


Eh, true story, sadly. Well it's kind of the same already with religion. A lot of people don't believe (as seen in this thread) but then stuff still happens (as seen in this thread...).


----------



## Haider Raza (May 11, 2017)

Cool! I mean like you have to respect others belief. If he didn't knew what church means for Christians. Then I can say it was wrong sending him jail.


----------



## chrisrlink (May 11, 2017)

don't forget this is a place that jails/executes homosexuals kills political opponents meddle in other countries elections AND HAS A NUKE STOCKPILE and an evil wackjob/ex KGB agent as a "president"


----------



## GhostLatte (May 11, 2017)

While I am an atheist myself, I do think that there have been good things to come out of religion. Instead of blatantly attacking religion, we should discuss whether the action of him being arrested was justified or not. Some people on this forum need to mature and learn to respect others who are different than them


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

I am Russian. I know what he told in the video and I know a little extra about this situation. In the video he is, basically, said that he KNOWS that this is legally become a crime but gone to the church with exact purpose to "break the rules" since he thinks that this rule is stupid. Well, he is anarchist, I didn't seen much of his videos, but in every one I seen (about 8-9) there is some of anarchistic, hmm, propaganda. How people "can do whatever they wan't", how all "you guys" should "f the system", how "if somebody do it, then it's justice that we all can do it", stuff like this. I'm assured that this is anarchist who are not so successfully trying to mask himself as democrat.

In this video he is also use filthy language in the parody of church recitative. So, is it offend somebody? Of course it is. The fact that this is Christians now is not really matter.

So, fact of violation of law is not only confirmed, it's can't be more oblivious.

Also note that this 3,5 years sentence is conditional term, he not jailed for 3,5 years, this 3,5 years going to be added to his sentence IF he breach law again seriously enough. So he is get off lightly.


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

chrisrlink said:


> don't forget this is a place that jails/executes homosexuals kills political opponents meddle in other countries elections AND HAS A NUKE STOCKPILE and an evil wackjob/ex KGB agent as a "president"


And in 20 years they will collipse and China can reclaim Alaska. Then China and America will share boarders. Their tech is at best Cold war era and lot's of UV's factories shut down. And in a sense they cannot afford having low population and repopulation rate.


----------



## Yil (May 11, 2017)

We need to take out people behind the scene before dealing with idiots.


----------



## kuwanger (May 11, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> I am Russian. I know what he told in the video and I know a little extra about this situation. In the video he is, basically, said that he KNOWS that this is legally become a crime but gone to the church with exact purpose to "break the rules" since he thinks that this rule is stupid. Well, he is anarchist, I didn't seen much of his videos, but in every one I seen (about 8-9) there is some of anarchistic, hmm, propaganda. How people "can do whatever they wan't", how all "you guys" should "f the system", how "if somebody do it, then it's justice that we all can do it", stuff like this. I'm assured that this is anarchist who are not so successfully trying to mask himself as democrat.
> 
> In this video he is also use filthy language in the parody of church recitative. So, is it offend somebody? Of course it is. The fact that this is Christians now is not really matter.
> 
> ...



Yea.  An "anarchist".  Playing "Pokemon Go".  Got off "lightly".  If all it takes is for a person to use filthy language or be disrespectful to things you respect to think they deserve any sort of punishment, then God knows most of humanity should be in jail for life.  Get back to me when you have people doing actual violent acts upon others.  Like Putin.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

Yil said:


> I don't really understand how Christianity survived SU's purge.


Stalin restored it. Unexpected, yeah?


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

-snip-


Haider Raza said:


> Cool! I mean like you have to respect others belief. If he didn't knew what church means for Christians. Then I can say it was wrong sending him jail.


You think jail is a proper sentence for not respecting someone? Not causing any harm, not harassing, just disrespect?


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

kuwanger said:


> Yea. An "anarchist". Playing "Pokemon Go". Got off "lightly". If all it takes is for a person to use filthy language or be disrespectful to things you respect to think they deserve any sort of punishment, then God knows most of humanity should be in jail for life. Get back to me when you have people doing actual violent acts upon others. Like Putin.


He arrested not for playing Pokemon... And not for only one single "misstep" either...


----------



## Haider Raza (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> You think jail is a proper sentence for not respecting someone? Not causing any harm, not harassing, just disrespect?


Try going out & disrespecting police on street & they'll show you love in jail. It's kind of illegal.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Try going out & disrespecting police on street & they'll show you love in jail. It's kind of illegal.


No, its not. Theres a famous song called Fuck the Police. I know many videos making fun of them or other songs making fun of them. Thats disrespecting and its 100% legal. Theres laws against harming the police or putting them or others in danger, but not for disrespect.


----------



## Haider Raza (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> No, its not. Theres a famous song called Fuck the Police. I know many videos making fun of them or other songs making fun of them. Thats disrespecting and its 100% legal.


Try saying f-ck the police in front of police & you'll know.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Try saying f-ck the police in front of police & you'll know.


Thats not illegal and any police officer that tries to arrest you for it will get nowhere.


----------



## kuwanger (May 11, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> He arrested not for playing Pokemon... And not for only one single "misstep" either...



"Misstep" indeed.  Did he burn down a church?  Punch someone?  Steal something?  Nope?  Just some moron say not nice things in filthy words about people?  Yea, put that bastard in jail!  Right after Putin is put on trial for all his murders.  Oh, right, he didn't do it "obviously" so it's okay.


----------



## Haider Raza (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Thats not illegal and any police officer that tries to arrest you for it will get nowhere.


But they'll have fun with you till you get out.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Thats not illegal and any police officer that tries to arrest you for it will get nowhere.


Oh, so thats why they shot first?


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> But they'll have fun with you till you get out.


And then get fired for attempting to void a constitutional right and then harming you in jail. Everyone should be able to disrespect however they want as long as there is no actual harm caused, and that includes playing pokemon in a church unless the church is in session and they are causing an actual disruption after being asked to put the phone away.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (May 11, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> I am Russian. I know what he told in the video and I know a little extra about this situation. In the video he is, basically, said that he KNOWS that this is legally become a crime but gone to the church with exact purpose to "break the rules" since he thinks that this rule is stupid. Well, he is anarchist, I didn't seen much of his videos, but in every one I seen (about 8-9) there is some of anarchistic, hmm, propaganda. How people "can do whatever they wan't", how all "you guys" should "f the system", how "if somebody do it, then it's justice that we all can do it", stuff like this. I'm assured that this is anarchist who are not so successfully trying to mask himself as democrat.
> 
> In this video he is also use filthy language in the parody of church recitative. So, is it offend somebody? Of course it is. The fact that this is Christians now is not really matter.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. Also, this seems to violate disruption of public order laws more than anything. Regardless on your thoughts of Russian laws (I somehow see people putting a spin on this and bring up their anti-gay laws), this is someone that behaved like a dick in a place were behaving like a dick is frowned upon. It would be the equivalent of walking into a religious building and screaming at the top of your lungs "FUCK YOU <relevant religion>". At that point it'd make sense to be arrested, since at best you are breaking public order laws and at worst be commiting a hate crime (which one depends on how much said religion has gotten the 'marginalized' description by the media). You just are not supposed to do that. So, despite that Russia remains an ass-backwards country, in this case, I think that being on probation (which is what this is if I'm not mistaken) for a few years is appropriate.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

kuwanger said:


> Just some moron say not nice things in filthy words about people? Yea, put that bastard in jail!


Based on article 282 of criminal code he can be senteced for up to six years for insults alone.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> Based on article 282 of criminal code he can be senteced for up to six years for insults alone.


Which is a horrible law and helps show why Russia and its government has such a negative connotation.


----------



## Haider Raza (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> And then get fired for attempting to void a constitutional right and then harming you in jail. Everyone should be able to disrespect however they want as long as there is no actual harm caused, and that includes playing pokemon in a church unless the church is in session and they are causing an actual disruption after being asked to put the phone away.


But it's a sacred place for Christians. It might be illegal in Russia. If something is illegal you can't & do illegal stuff because it's against the country rules. Every country have there own rules. You have to obey them to live there. If you don't want to then you can go to some other country or stay where you are & do illegal stuff & go to jail for it.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Which is a horrible law and helps show why Russia and its government has such a negative connotation.


This law saving, let's say, Americans from being insulted on every turn. (This one in the political TV shows receiving money for it so he isn't mind it much.)
Russia is multi-religious, multicultural and multinational place. But you are supposed to respect other people, traditions and believes here. You are not suppose to publicly insult others views and suggest that others should do it too.


----------



## SWRosetta (May 11, 2017)

i wish these crazy religious authorities put that same passion and effort into actualy giving jail time to murderers and rapists , not this bullshit.

How messed up it's the world we live in.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> But it's a sacred place for Christians. It might be illegal in Russia. If something is illegal you can't & do illegal stuff because it's against the country rules. Every country have there own rules. You have to obey them to live there. If you don't want to then you can go to some other country or stay where you are & do illegal stuff & go to jail for it.


"But black people are slaves in the US. Maybe where you live its different but thats what they do there. If something is illegal you can't & do illegal stuff because it's against the country rules. Every country have there own rules. You have to obey them to live there." I didnt realize its ok to discriminate against minorities (in this case atheists) and wrong to protest just because putin says so. Apparently he is the arbiter of morality and if he made it illegal to be a woman in Russia, it wold be ok to kill all women because "Every country have there own rules"


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

SWRosetta said:


> i wish these crazy religious authorities put that same passion and effort into actualy giving jail time to murderers and rapists , not this bullshit.


And if he tries it on the territory of military base then you yet going to wish that this crazy militaristic authorities put that same passion and effort into actually giving jail time to murderers and rapists?


----------



## DeslotlCL (May 11, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> This law saving, let's say, Americans from being insulted on every turn. (This one in the political TV shows receiving money for it so he isn't mind it much.)
> Russia is multi-religious, multicultural and multinational place. But you are supposed to respect other people, traditions and believes here. You are not suppose to publicly insult others views and suggest that others should do it too.


If it is multicultural and you are suppossed to respect others there, why is russia so shit over nonstraight people? Hypocrisy at it finests.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> This law saving, let's say, Americans from being insulted on every turn. (This one in the political TV shows receiving money for it so he isn't mind it much.)
> Russia is multi-religious, multicultural and multinational place. But you are supposed to respect other people, traditions and believes here. You are not suppose to publicly insult others views and suggest that others should do it too.


Thats dumb. If a Russian insults america, that should be their right. If a Russian insults russia, that should be their right. I get that isnt the law, but it SHOULD be. You shouldnt be forced to respect others, just to not cause them harm.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

DespyCL said:


> why is russia so shit over nonstraight people? Hyprocite at it finests.


In reality it's not shit over nonstraight people. It's shit over gay-parades and propaganda that one-sex relationship is normal. Since this is against traditions of almost any ethnic group here, especially between man. If all that Western media telling about of this has been true, then all gays in Russia has been dead for years already... But no, there is plenty.
Now there is even other fairy-tales about Chechnya, lol.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> If a Russian insults america, that should be their right. If a Russian insults russia, that should be their right.


It is alright then it is not on sole reason that this is America, Russia, Armenia, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, black, yellow, white and so on, but because opponent is a bastard himself.


----------



## Haider Raza (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> ...


I am a Muslim by the way. Atheists are kind of dumb they think what they have everyone should obey them. Now a days atheism is becoming like a anti-religious group. Claiming what they have is right & what religious people have is wrong. They forgot how fox news brainwash them every single day. They forgot what reality is because some of them who join anti-religious groups don't have a little bit of understanding. A religion never teaches anyone to do bad. People who do bad & claim themselves to be part of religion is a lame claim. Because they have same brain f-cked understanding like anti-religious groups. Also people from anti-religious group forgot that there are 99% more bad cases from people who have no religion then there are from 1% religious people. You can check wikipedia for murder cases around the world. You will find 99% non-religious people & 1% religious people in those cases. Look how media brainwash you people every day. Open your eyes before you also join the side of anti-religious group for nothing.


----------



## Ev1l0rd (May 11, 2017)

I see everyone screaming "HE GOT JAIL TIME! NO FREE SPEECH LOLZ", but keep in mind, it is SUSPENDED jail time. This means he is effectively on probation. As long as he doesn't commit any major crimes in the next few years, he doesn't even have to serve it. After those 3 years, the judge will dismiss the sentence. Of course, if he does break the law, then things get tricky (and suspended jail time can also have strings attached to it).

IANAL ofc.


----------



## eworm (May 11, 2017)

I'm a Christian and, well, everything about this is stupid.
Playing Pokémon GO in a church is pretty stupid and also insensitive if not rude.
Filming oneself playing Pokémon GO in a church is also stupid, especially when its illegal.
Playing Pokémon GO in a church being illegal is also stupid.
All "sides" in this story seem incredibly stupid.


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> I am a Muslim by the way. Atheists are kind of dumb they think what they have everyone should obey them. Now a days atheism is becoming like a anti-religious group. Claiming what they have is right & what religious people have is wrong. They forgot how fox news brainwash them every single day. They forgot what reality is because some of them who join anti-religious groups don't have a little bit of understanding. A religion never teaches anyone to do bad. People who do bad & claim themselves to be part of religion is a lame claim. Because they have same brain f-cked understanding like anti-religious groups. Also people from anti-religious group forgot that there are 99% more bad cases from people who have no religion then there are from 1% religious people. You can check wikipedia for murder cases around the world. You will find 99% non-religious people & 1% religious people in those cases. Look how media brainwash you people every day. Open your eyes before you also join the side of anti-religious group for nothing.


Ok let me try to piece this apart:
1. Fox News is one of the most religious major news stations ever, and consistently align themselves with conservatives, who on average are far more religious than liberals. I dont think they brainwash people to be atheist lol.
2.Saying "people should be able to disrespect WHOEVER they want (including atheists) is not "anti religion", its anti oppression. Taking away my right to say whatever I want is inherently oppressive.
3. The 99% thing is blatantly false. The crusades was a series of wars fought between religious groups over god and ISIS is a group dedicated to killing for god. I am positive atheists and religious people commit on average a proportion of murders equal to how many of each there are.


----------



## Deleted User (May 11, 2017)

Knowingly commiting a crime for views on camera wasn't the best idea. No matter how stupid a law is there are better ways of protesting.


----------



## zerofalcon (May 11, 2017)

Fanatism in both ways, gaming and beliefs.


----------



## chrisrlink (May 11, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> I am a Muslim by the way. Atheists are kind of dumb they think what they have everyone should obey them. Now a days atheism is becoming like a anti-religious group. Claiming what they have is right & what religious people have is wrong. They forgot how fox news brainwash them every single day. They forgot what reality is because some of them who join anti-religious groups don't have a little bit of understanding. A religion never teaches anyone to do bad. People who do bad & claim themselves to be part of religion is a lame claim. Because they have same brain f-cked understanding like anti-religious groups. Also people from anti-religious group forgot that there are 99% more bad cases from people who have no religion then there are from 1% religious people. You can check wikipedia for murder cases around the world. You will find 99% non-religious people & 1% religious people in those cases. Look how media brainwash you people every day. Open your eyes before you also join the side of anti-religious group for nothing.



oh i agree  but some people  like me who was muslim for a breif time to marry somebody (technicly lied to her cause i wasn't praying (go figure she rarely wears her hijab recently and is bisexual you cant pick and choose what you do in islam it's all or nothing but i can say this i became angrier as a muslim than an aitheist i do not force shit down others throats w/e they believe in i respect ik a lot of taxi drivers locally who are muslim of arab origin  it's not aitheist that you must fear it is the white supremisist and neo nazi's they are not religious groups just hate groups (I despise most republicans (that I've met) cause of trump it's like a damn light switch turned on since trump took office I even am scared for my life cause i had 1 or 2 threats on my life just for being muslim for a while


----------



## Kolyasisan (May 11, 2017)

He said nothing about believers in his video. It's just our stupid people can be easily pissed off with the goverment together. There was also not a single word about the religion itself nor the church, he was mocking the goverment only. Yes, it's pretty stupid of him, but come on, how more shitty can we get? Also, Simpsons' age rating has been changed here from 16 to 18 because of a mocking scene. The goverment says it's "not safe for CHILDREN to watch it".


----------



## leon315 (May 11, 2017)

lets get over with this guys, it'll just bring us to nowhere, and we are unable to change what makes russia, let's go back to where all we started, on how absurd that russia sentenced that poor vlogger


----------



## RaMon90 (May 11, 2017)

What the hell, why not 1 to 3 months? I mean wow 3n half years just because of a smartphone videogame.
Edit: At least he isn't going to jail, he's gonna work for free. Still exaggerated


----------



## MoonUsotsuki (May 11, 2017)

As a good citizen, you should know the law, it was a foolish move om his part... that been said, that law is amoral, given the fact that it alienates the people who don't share those beliefs. The state should care for all the citizens.


----------



## Deleted-379826 (May 11, 2017)

Geez, I mean it's true he shouldn't have done it and I guess it can be slightly rude to some but geeez. This is very strict, in no way did he deserve this even though he shouldn't have done it. rip


----------



## FAST6191 (May 11, 2017)

Ah Russia.

I am curious that some here seem so quick to throw free speech out of the window though.



the_randomizer said:


> They respect freedoms as much as a vegan and vegetarian enjoys enjoys meat.



I don't think being vegetarian/vegan precludes you from liking meat. I mean I find some tomato based dishes delicious (chilli, lasagne, spaghetti bolognese, not all pizzas need tomatoes but there are delicious examples of those with them) but as it invariably ends with me sitting on the can the next day/in about 6 hours with the following going round in my head I tend to avoid dishes using them





ned said:


> That's what you get for not playing Tetris.


For giggles I was going to redo all the guy's "crimes", however that would have necessarily involved playing pokemon go and my remaining street cred (nor any mobile phone I have here) could handle that. Being as it involved Russia though my next choice would have been gay sextris.
That and I looked up a picture of this Patriarch Kirill guy and while my beard can match his I am going to need to put down the books and get back to the mats for a couple of months before I take on a guy waving around flaming sticks like he owns the place








Haider Raza said:


> If something is illegal you can't & do illegal stuff because it's against the country rules. Every country have there own rules. You have to obey them to live there. If you don't want to then you can go to some other country or stay where you are & do illegal stuff & go to jail for it.


Civil disobedience is a viable strategy at times. If you want to live in peace and quiet it probably is a good plan to obey any laws, no matter how awful/contrary to general principles that govern whatever ethics/morality you want to follow. In this case I am not surprised something happened (as others said it is Russia) but as the guy seemed to want to make a statement, and because of him I am seemingly now aware of some other suspect law making and enforcement in Russia. Likewise if Russia wants to put itself forward as a forward thinking country then having enforced laws like this would seem to be a bit hypocritical.


----------



## duffmmann (May 11, 2017)

People keep saying this is free speech, but I really don't see it that way.  I mean is it free speech if you urinate on someone's grave?  I suppose you could argue as much, but the family of that person's grave you urinated on will understandably be devastated and pursue whatever legal action they can, and frankly I'd hope that such a person would end up in jail.  People need to learn that free speech doesn't mean that you can do ANYthing you want, you still have to have some respect and be rational.  That holocaust museum understandably banned Pokemon Go there, if you don't like it, too bad, just respect it and don't be an asshole, you can play the dumb game just about anywhere else in the world, you're not banned from playing the game entirely just in certain places.  You wouldn't walk in a place that says no trespassing, and if you did, its understandable why you could then find yourself in legal trouble, or worse shot and killed depending on where you are.


----------



## cthompson80 (May 11, 2017)

It's quite simple. A law is in place. You violate it. You pay the consequences for those actions you made. How to avoid this problem? Don't be dumb enough to break the law and then even more so recording yourself doing it for all the world to see. I say it's justified until the law changes, if ever.

Life lesson to all the kiddies out there. If you don't break the laws of the land then you don't get in trouble. It doesn't matter if you don't like it or that it's irrational. Obviously laws can be followed otherwise they'd never have gotten passed. Common sense goes a long way in life and today's generations don't have much sense, let alone common sense, at all.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> It's quite simple. A law is in place. You violate it. You pay the consequences for those actions you made. How to avoid this problem? Don't be dumb enough to break the law and then even more so recording yourself doing it for all the world to see. I say it's justified until the law changes, if ever.
> 
> Life lesson to all the kiddies out there. If you don't break the laws of the land then you don't get in trouble. It doesn't matter if you don't like it or that it's irrational. Obviously laws can be followed otherwise they'd never have gotten passed. Common sense goes a long way in life and today's generations don't have much sense, let alone common sense, at all.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


Guess you don't understand what a protest is since you seem to believe he is some kid just refusing to follow their laws. He deliberately broke it to send a message, stop painting young people with some "kids these days" brush just because they won't deal with speaking out against religious being illegal like you will.


----------



## Sketchy1 (May 11, 2017)

It's retarded I'll admit, but he did break the law so......

Justice is served


----------



## cthompson80 (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Guess you don't understand what a protest is since you seem to believe he is some kid just refusing to follow their laws. He deliberately broke it to send a message, stop painting young people with some "kids these days" brush just because they won't deal with speaking out against religious being illegal like you will.


A kid in my eyes is under the age of 25. I've met very few younger that actually acted older than their age. At least in a mature sense.

It doesn't matter if it was a protest. He broke the law. Tough shit.

Oh and I could give a rats ass about religion. I don't practice it myself. It's a personal choice. Not a requirement. He done the crime. The idiot deserves the time. Besides it's only 3.5 years. I'm sure he could have gotten more. Hopefully he'll learn a lesson. I doubt it though.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bi388 (May 11, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> A kid in my eyes is under the age of 25. I've met very few younger that actually acted older than their age. At least in a mature sense.
> 
> It doesn't matter if it was a protest. He broke the law. Tough shit.
> 
> ...


But this is his intended result. It isn't tough shit for him. People around the world, like us, who would otherwise not know about this are now talking about it. He brought attention to an issue. He won the battle from the moment he started discussion, whether they arrested him or not.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 11, 2017)

Glad I don't live there lol, granted yes, it was stupid for him to play Pokemon Go in a church, but being punished with jail time is a douche move on Russia's part, considering their absurd laws and stances on religion as a whole.


----------



## SG854 (May 11, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I couldn't care less about this. I don't like this whole idea of nationalism TBH, and I expect to receive backlash but who cares.


Nationalism Pride is stupid. We should be able to criticize and praise, the goods and bad's of our own country. And why shouldn't you criticize your own country, just because you're from there?


----------



## Justinde75 (May 11, 2017)

This is old news. Happened over 2 weeks ago


----------



## cthompson80 (May 11, 2017)

bi388 said:


> But this is his intended result. It isn't tough shit for him. People around the world, like us, who would otherwise not know about this are now talking about it. He brought attention to an issue. He won the battle from the moment he started discussion, whether they arrested him or not.


Well I guess he's satisfied with the result then. I personally don't want to spend time in any jail. It doesn't seem pleasant but hell what do I know, right?

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## FAST6191 (May 11, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> People keep saying this is free speech, but I really don't see it that way.  I mean is it free speech if you urinate on someone's grave?  I suppose you could argue as much, but the family of that person's grave you urinated on will understandably be devastated and pursue whatever legal action they can, and frankly I'd hope that such a person would end up in jail.  People need to learn that free speech doesn't mean that you can do ANYthing you want, you still have to have some respect and be rational.  That holocaust museum understandably banned Pokemon Go there, if you don't like it, too bad, just respect it and don't be an asshole, you can play the dumb game just about anywhere else in the world, you're not banned from playing the game entirely just in certain places.  You wouldn't walk in a place that says no trespassing, and if you did, its understandable why you could then find yourself in legal trouble, or worse shot and killed depending on where you are.



Pissing on a grave (or anywhere) could count as an act of vandalism, damage or something similar. After this dude was done doing what he was doing there was... absolutely nothing broken or changed, or at least nothing tangible. If he had disrupted a service or something then there may be more scope for something, though we still may get to argue some kind of protest.
A museum, presumably being a private building, would in turn be free to ban what it likes so that does not make such a great comparison here. Had he been done for some kind of disturbing the pace, disruption of an event or something similar then I am sure we would still have some kind of discussion, this however was not that and a prosecution under a law that would not and possibly even could not exist in many countries of the world that people tend to desire to live in, and its existence in this case speaks to a rather fundamental difference in the philosophies of law governing the countries and some would argue not a good one (here sanctions are being visited upon someone that has arguably done no harm at all*).

*if my saying Buddhists are a bunch of violent shitheads is indeed enough to cause a breakdown in civil order, or harm enough to note, and thus would want to be stopped then so it goes. Generally though if you are big enough and ugly enough to have a religion then you are similarly able to see it questioned or insulted. It might not be that useful as a mode of discourse (I mean I would like to make fun of religion but they do a better job of that themselves than anything I can ever pull off), and might not get anywhere fast but you can hardly regulate against that sort of thing.



cthompson80 said:


> It's quite simple. A law is in place. You violate it. You pay the consequences for those actions you made. How to avoid this problem? Don't be dumb enough to break the law and then even more so recording yourself doing it for all the world to see. I say it's justified until the law changes, if ever.
> 
> Life lesson to all the kiddies out there. If you don't break the laws of the land then you don't get in trouble. It doesn't matter if you don't like it or that it's irrational. Obviously laws can be followed otherwise they'd never have gotten passed. Common sense goes a long way in life and today's generations don't have much sense, let alone common sense, at all.



Nobody here thus far is surprised that violating a law has consequences; it is the existence of the law, prosecution taken seriously under it and the sentence it incurred that is under discussion and causing eyebrows to be raised.


----------



## seam (May 11, 2017)

good.


----------



## duffmmann (May 11, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Pissing on a grave (or anywhere) could count as an act of vandalism, damage or something similar. After this dude was done doing what he was doing there was... absolutely nothing broken or changed, or at least nothing tangible. If he had disrupted a service or something then there may be more scope for something, though we still may get to argue some kind of protest.
> A museum, presumably being a private building, would in turn be free to ban what it likes so that does not make such a great comparison here. Had he been done for some kind of disturbing the pace, disruption of an event or something similar then I am sure we would still have some kind of discussion, this however was not that and a prosecution under a law that would not and possibly even could not exist in many countries of the world that people tend to desire to live in, and its existence in this case speaks to a rather fundamental difference in the philosophies of law governing the countries and some would argue not a good one (here sanctions are being visited upon someone that has arguably done no harm at all*).
> 
> *if my saying Buddhists are a bunch of violent shitheads is indeed enough to cause a breakdown in civil order, or harm enough to note, and thus would want to be stopped then so it goes. Generally though if you are big enough and ugly enough to have a religion then you are similarly able to see it questioned or insulted. It might not be that useful as a mode of discourse (I mean I would like to make fun of religion but they do a better job of that themselves than anything I can ever pull off), and might not get anywhere fast but you can hardly regulate against that sort of thing.



If a place you don't own that you're a guest at has rules.  Even if you don't agree with them, I don't give a shit, follow the rules, and everything will be fine.  A sign says don't trespass, then don't trespass, if you're at a waterpark and the rules for the rides say don't stand on this ride, don't stand.  You always can do these things that you're told not to, but if you do, then you have to face the consequences yourself and I feel no sympathy for you.  That guy knew the rules and broke them anyway, he deserves to be punished.


----------



## cthompson80 (May 11, 2017)

> Nobody here thus far is surprised that violating a law has consequences; it is the existence of the law, prosecution taken seriously under it and the sentence it incurred that is under discussion and causing eyebrows to be raised.



I see that but why talk about something that won't change? Oh right, I forgot, freedom of speech. There's no reason to raise anything up on this. Except  concerns that people shouldn't make poor choices or abuse their rights. This can be argued until the end of time but here in about a week this discussion will be swept under the rug as old news since justice has served it's purpose. The decision was made and now little boy 22 gets to spend 3.5 in the pokey.

To add insult to injury. His Pokemon catching skills were just shit. Maybe if he's lucky they'll let him take a Pikachu plush with him into his cell. What a waste at 22.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## 0100100001001001 (May 11, 2017)

Geesh!  Wonder what they would have done to this guy 



Spoiler



PS:  This Church must be cool!  Wait till the end and you will hear clapping


----------



## dimmidice (May 11, 2017)

_v3 said:


> But yea, if there's a law in place that says you should NOT be doing something, then you should NOT do it, no matter how stupid it is.


That's nonsense. If your country passed a law saying the internet is now banned would you just stand for it? Where do you draw the line? Or a law saying every sunday at 13:00 everyone has to stand on their hands for half an hour? What he did wasn't wrong at all. It's just against the law. And regardless of it being the law doesn't mean the punishment is just. Punishing someone just because the law says it's what's required doesn't mean its morally justified.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 11, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> If a place you don't own that you're a guest at has rules.  Even if you don't agree with them, I don't give a shit, follow the rules, and everything will be fine.  A sign says don't trespass, then don't trespass, if you're at a waterpark and the rules for the rides say don't stand on this ride, don't stand.  You always can do these things that you're told not to, but if you do, then you have to face the consequences yourself and I feel no sympathy for you.  That guy knew the rules and broke them anyway, he deserves to be punished.


Then we have radically different approaches on how the law should work, and seemingly philosophies on law making. A logical conclusion to your position would seem to be against the idea of fundamental laws that other laws may go against and thus get dismissed (or in American parlance an example might be when a law gets struck down for violating a given amendment). Going further what if there are bad rules in place? Ones that maybe can not be worked to, or ones you find abhorrent under other governing principles; I am sure we could find some religious book that governs somewhere in the world that would say something both of us find utterly unpalatable, possibly one commanding us to harm someone else because of something that harmed nobody (because they are gay, because they have an unpopular religion, because the slept with someone outside marriage, because they did not pay the religion of the state), would you do something under that situation?
Had the person been done for disruption of an event then we may still be having a discussion, had he just been asked to leave and not it again then that works too, this however was being charged under laws I find to actually be quite illogical, even barbaric. I want laws the world over to be fair and logical, when I see otherwise I find myself inclined to question things. The standards are indeed my own but I would hold not too far out of line with those that govern the systems at work in countries that get all the nice quality of life scores. Whether that is a good position to argue from is possibly up for debate, however comparing the legal systems of other countries against those of others, and the tenets that underpin them, is if nothing else a popular one to go for.

Or if you prefer it is not an unexpected result of violating the law there, deserving of sanction for the actions taken is a rather different matter.

If you want to feel the way you do then feel free, however I have no idea how we are going to reconcile this enough to have a useful conversation, at least not without going to fundamental principles and why we each hold them.



cthompson80 said:


> I see that but why talk about something that won't change? Oh right, I forgot, freedom of speech. There's no reason to raise anything up on this. Except  concerns that people shouldn't make poor choices or abuse their rights. This can be argued until the end of time but here in about a week this discussion will be swept under the rug as old news since justice has served it's purpose. The decision was made and now little boy 22 gets to spend 3.5 in the pokey.



It is a suspended sentence. All the job prospect ruining fun with none of the cost to the state.
Talking about it in this case would seem to serve to make people aware of things that are happening in the world, because of it my opinion of Russia has dropped somewhat and with it my desire to use services or goods from there, visit the place or accept its positions/opinions as part of international negotiations and organisations.
Has justice served its purpose? From where I sit the law is there to see sanctions given to those that have or would harm others in some manner. As I have a hard time seeing any harm done in this case I am now seeing sanctions given to someone that did no harm, and that is not justice from where I sit.
I agree that in the end that little change will happen as a result of my actions, or indeed the existence of the thread here. That has seldom stopped anything in the past though.


----------



## AndreTrek (May 11, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> If a place you don't own that you're a guest at has rules.  Even if you don't agree with them, I don't give a shit, follow the rules, and everything will be fine.  A sign says don't trespass, then don't trespass, if you're at a waterpark and the rules for the rides say don't stand on this ride, don't stand.  You always can do these things that you're told not to, but if you do, then you have to face the consequences yourself and I feel no sympathy for you.  That guy knew the rules and broke them anyway, he deserves to be punished.


Can you not see that this is an incredibly dangerous mindset to have?
Speaking in hypothetics, let's say I'm the owner of a room and that for whatever reason, you have something you need to do in it. However, I, as the absolute authority and law of the room have placed a sign in it that reads "1. Breathing in this room is forbidden, 2. It is forbidden to leave this room without waiting 5 minutes after entry". I am also legally enabled to sentence anyone who breaks either of those rules to a slow and painful death.
Would you:
1. Abide by the rules and possibly die of asphyxiation?
2. Break the rules but accept your punishment and feel that "you deserved" this absurdly disproportionate retribution?
3. Realize the insanity of this situation and fight back against it?
This might be an extrapolation of the issue at hand, but the core of the problem is the same.


----------



## cthompson80 (May 12, 2017)

AndreTrek said:


> Can you not see that this is an incredibly dangerous mindset to have?
> Speaking in hypothetics, let's say I'm the owner of a room and that for whatever reason, you have something you need to do in it. However, I, as the absolute authority and law of the room have placed a sign in it that reads "1. Breathing in this room is forbidden, 2. It is forbidden to leave this room without waiting 5 minutes after entry". I am also legally enabled to sentence anyone who breaks either of those rules to a slow and painful death.
> Would you:
> 1. Abide by the rules and possibly die of asphyxiation?
> ...


I'd just go somewhere else. If I can't breathe in that place I'll find another place. Same principle applies to that boy. He could have went anywhere to play Pokemon Go but he chose a place that was against the law to practice Pokemonism in. Here's another example. Drinking beer is legal for me as I'm old enough to do so. Now let's say I want to drink this said beer in a police station. Let's say I felt the need to go in there because I have a friend that works there and I needed to tell him something important. Now think for a moment. Do you think the police would allow me to come inside their building with an open alcohol container and drink it? I know for a fact that they wouldn't and I'd be charged on several accounts.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## WhiteMaze (May 12, 2017)

_v3 said:


> Even though I'm not a believer myself I don't think it's fair to mock someone's beliefs.
> 
> But yea, if there's a law in place that says you should NOT be doing something, then you should NOT do it, no matter how stupid it is.



I agree that if it is illegal, you shouldn't do it. Even if it is stupid. I also agree that it is not fair to mock people's beliefs. 

The problem here, is how *severe* the sentence is.

3.5 years? For playing Pokemon Go in a church and offending a priest? The fuck!?

How about catching *real* criminals like drug dealers, murderers and child molesters? I believe society would benefit far more.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 12, 2017)

If indeed it was done as an act of protest against the rules of the land, as it appears to be and as the laws of the land there appear to also be punishing him for, then there is scope to argue something. You are allowed to protest laws (or at least anywhere with some measure of free speech you are), and while not likely to be pleasant the act of forcing a case involving them and in doing so highlighting the ridiculous nature of the laws in question (or indeed maybe not getting the case despite attempting to force them) is a fairly potent form of protest.

If you wanted to frame your booze drinking as an act of protest then there is also scope. The idea in the US though seems to be that they are allowed to restrict what you put in your body, and further place restrictions on how, where and in some cases when. The idea of open container laws also being a somewhat unique concept to the US. With that said drunken people are fairly easily shown to have negative effects and thus possibly warranting some regulation, the harm done by someone doing a "mockery of the immaculate conception," ''denial of the existence of Jesus and Prophet Muhammad" and "giving an offensive description of Patriarch Kirill," is rather more tricky to demonstrate, and indeed is held to be so low or so important a thing to be able to do that it in turn the US has highly enshrined rules to allow people to do.
Would not be surprised at your being sanctioned at some level, would find it a bit sad that the state of laws in that country led to that.


----------



## bi388 (May 12, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> I'd just go somewhere else. If I can't breathe in that place I'll find another place. Same principle applies to that boy. He could have went anywhere to play Pokemon Go but he chose a place that was against the law to practice Pokemonism in. Here's another example. Drinking beer is legal for me as I'm old enough to do so. Now let's say I want to drink this said beer in a police station. Let's say I felt the need to go in there because I have a friend that works there and I needed to tell him something important. Now think for a moment. Do you think the police would allow me to come inside their building with an open alcohol container and drink it? I know for a fact that they wouldn't and I'd be charged on several accounts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


The issues are different because the protester doesnt want to be able to play pokemon in church as an end goal, he wants blasphemy laws to be removed as they are discriminatory. He just chose that as a way to show their ridiculousness. The police have a good reason to keep alcohol out of their work place, where as non disruptively playing pokemon (anytime church is not actively going on) gets in no ones way.


----------



## duffmmann (May 12, 2017)

AndreTrek said:


> Can you not see that this is an incredibly dangerous mindset to have?
> Speaking in hypothetics, let's say I'm the owner of a room and that for whatever reason, you have something you need to do in it. However, I, as the absolute authority and law of the room have placed a sign in it that reads "1. Breathing in this room is forbidden, 2. It is forbidden to leave this room without waiting 5 minutes after entry". I am also legally enabled to sentence anyone who breaks either of those rules to a slow and painful death.
> Would you:
> 1. Abide by the rules and possibly die of asphyxiation?
> ...



If you don't need to be in that room, and are there by choice, then adhere to the rules, simple as that.  If you're forced to be somewhere, then sure, all bets are off.  But we're not talking about anyone being held somewhere against their will.  This guy willfully entered the church by choice, by no means did he have to be there and no one was forcing him to stay there, he knew the rules and deliberately disobeyed them.  Your example is incredibly poor and is not what I was talking about.


----------



## grossaffe (May 12, 2017)

Shouldn't be too surprising when someone who intentionally breaks the law and broadcasts it goes to jail.  Comes with the territory of Civil Disobedience.


----------



## bi388 (May 12, 2017)

jimbo13 said:


> snipt.



This is the first time ive ever agreed with you. Calling Jenner a man, while offensive to her, should be 100% legal, as should insulting the russian church or government. Making expressing your opinion illegal is fascism and oppression.


----------



## duffmmann (May 12, 2017)

Let me put it this way.  It is illegal to smoke pot in my state, I may want to go outside and smoke a big old blunt in an act of Free Speech.  But I wouldn't be surprised for a second, and would understand why, if I get a fine or even jail time for doing that.  Even though I disagree with the rule, I get it, and I'd certainly understand why if a video of me doing just that could get me into trouble.  This isn't hard shit to understand.


----------



## Xzi (May 12, 2017)

Memoir said:


> Uhhhhhhh.. Jail time for playing a game in church? K


IKR, what else is there to do in a church?  When the craze was at its pinnacle, most churches in the US were very welcoming to pogo players, it's not like they're seeing record attendance these days lol.


----------



## SG854 (May 12, 2017)

Calling Bruce Jenner a man should be 100% legal. And and being able to call those people dicks, that call her a man should be 100% legal too. We should let human societal decency norms govern and not the law in this situation. Getting enough people gather to make the person feel bad for calling her a man, enough to make them stop, is the way to go. Freedom of expression, and freedom to make the person feel guilt. Preventing certain feelings from being felt should not be enforced or be part of the law, but enforced by common people, without involving jail and fines.


----------



## Subtle Demise (May 12, 2017)

_v3 said:


> Even though I'm not a believer myself I don't think it's fair to mock someone's beliefs.
> 
> But yea, if there's a law in place that says you should NOT be doing something, then you should NOT do it, no matter how stupid it is.





Madridi said:


> I don't get it.. Sure, the law may or not be dumb. That's a separate discussion.
> 
> BUT:
> 
> ...





wolfmankurd said:


> Agreed misleading title. Some people and I think they are probably privileged/entitled feeling, think they can break laws they don't agree with. You can't. You need to fight the law in a legal way. Being a "vlogger" he likely never expected the law would turn against him. If he were a black american he'd know better.


 I don't know if it's because I was born in a country founded by rebellion, but I think that unjust laws should be broken at every opportunity by as many people as possible. The last quote above mentions something about being a black American and I thought back to the Civil Rights movement. Does history remember all the blacks who followed the Jim Crow laws? Were they the ones that made a difference? No, not at all. It was the ones who openly disobeyed the evil laws that actually contributed the most to today's mostly-tolerant society.

A good modern example of unjust laws being openly broken is the State Legislatures who are in violation of Federal law by legalizing medical (and in some cases recreational) marijuana use. If it people found it an important enough issue, there would be another civil war between the States and Federal government (the first one was not truly about slavery, but about the power of the States over the Federal government).

Also, a civilized world should be based on human liberty, religion being one of the important ones. Not just freedom to have religion, but freedom FROM religion for those who do not wish to participate. No civilized nation can create laws based on the will of religious leaders and doctrines. Nor should they be able to ban all or any particular religion.

Basic human rights, people. Why is it that none of the world's governments in the entire history of mankind have been able to figure this out? Even my 4 year old daughter knows that people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else and that most people are generally good.


----------



## Haider Raza (May 12, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> ...


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-blogger-pokemongo-idUSKBN1870L7

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Here is a short info.

Ruslan Sokolovsky was found guilty of inciting religious hatred after posting a video on YouTube where he is seen playing Pokemon Go on his cell phone in the church.

In the video, which contains strong language mocking Christianity, Sokolovsky likens Jesus Christ to a Pokemon character and says he had decided to play the popular game inside the church because he had seen a news report saying people who did so could be fined or jailed.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/wo...emon-church/UNCa5O99yWSwarjR39CJbM/story.html

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

His quote in the video.

*‘‘But, you know, I didn’t catch the rarest Pokémon that you could find there — Jesus,’’ Sokolovsky, says at the end of a YouTube video he posted of himself playing the game. ‘‘They said it doesn’t even exist, so I’m not really surprised.’’*


----------



## FAST6191 (May 12, 2017)

Your point? As much was said in the opening post.

That said you did remind me of a favourite comedy sketch


----------



## endoverend (May 12, 2017)

Doesn't it seem like a large part of that 3.5 year sentence would be more for breaching the terms of a house arrest?


----------



## Madridi (May 12, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> I don't know if it's because I was born in a country founded by rebellion, but I think that unjust laws should be broken at every opportunity by as many people as possible. The last quote above mentions something about being a black American and I thought back to the Civil Rights movement. Does history remember all the blacks who followed the Jim Crow laws? Were they the ones that made a difference? No, not at all. It was the ones who openly disobeyed the evil laws that actually contributed the most to today's mostly-tolerant society.
> 
> A good modern example of unjust laws being openly broken is the State Legislatures who are in violation of Federal law by legalizing medical (and in some cases recreational) marijuana use. If it people found it an important enough issue, there would be another civil war between the States and Federal government (the first one was not truly about slavery, but about the power of the States over the Federal government).
> 
> ...


Without going into much detail, "unjust law" is subjective. Black Americans such as Rosa Parks or MLK were prepared to face the consequences for their actions. It was about them being slaves, treated like slaves, and beneath all people. They knew what they were doing was breaking the law, but enough was enough. Now, I hardly think a guy playing pokemon Go would receive any kind of sympathy lol. It's apples and oranges

In the end, he did a crime (regardless of whether it's a fair law or not), he breached his house arrest agreements, and simply tried to act rebellious through the whole ordeal. Result was still a suspended sentence. How can this be anymore of a slap on the wrist?

As for this particular case, like someone mentioned before on here, his action was provocative one. A church is a place of worship. Consider it as "house rules". If he does not believe in a religion, then why go there to begin with? 

But anyway, to put it plain and simple: He broke the law willingly, he kept insisting on breaking them, then he should be also be prepared to face the consequences. It's as simple as that.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 12, 2017)

I have not yet read any breakdown of the sentencing decisions, actually don't know if Russia has such things.

Still in evidence law there is a concept called fruit of a poison tree; if your argument or evidence rests of something later thrown out, possibly because it was collected improperly, you don't get to continue like it existed and if that initial evidence was what led to further searches/tests they get thrown out even if their results are not in question. I would apply a similar logic in this instance if the base charge was itself a silly one, though "breaking out of jail" is arguably a separate offence and might warrant further looking into.


----------



## duffmmann (May 12, 2017)

The guy knowingly broke the law and got punished, simple as that.   There are all sorts of harmless laws in the world you can break and get punished for, get over it.   Loitering, jaywalking, smoking weed, depending where you are you can get fined or jail time.  If you want to rebel, awesome then go ahead and do so, but be prepared to face the consequences if you do and get caught, and don't expect any sympathy from me.  That guy knew exactly what he was doing and now he has to face the consequences.


----------



## GhostLatte (May 12, 2017)

Madridi said:


> Without going into much detail, "unjust law" is subjective. Black Americans such as Rosa Parks or MLK were prepared to face the consequences for their actions. It was about them being slaves, treated like slaves, and beneath all people. They knew what they were doing was breaking the law, but enough was enough. Now, I hardly think a guy playing pokemon Go would receive any kind of sympathy lol. It's apples and oranges
> 
> In the end, he did a crime (regardless of whether it's a fair law or not), he breached his house arrest agreements, and simply tried to act rebellious through the whole ordeal. Result was still a suspended sentence. How can this be anymore of a slap on the wrist?
> 
> ...


Slavery ended before the start of the 20th century. Are you aware of that?


----------



## Haider Raza (May 12, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Your point?


Point is you can't mock someone's believe & say it's ok & it's a freedom of speech. He did wrong. It's kinda like for example your taking a shower & some stranger comes breaks into your house finding some digital pokemon sh-t (Which is obviously stupid thing) & says what a strange pokemon you are & makes video of you of being naked & you say it's ok for him to break in my house & make video of me being naked & call me a strange pokemon because it's freedom of speech. Man grow up! I know you wouldn't allowed such thing to happen in your house & if it happens you'll call the police for sure.


----------



## Madridi (May 12, 2017)

GhostLatte said:


> Slavery ended before the start of the 20th century. Are you aware of that?


I said without going into much detail. I'm well aware of that. The fact that slavery "officially" ended before the 20th century didn't stop them from being treated like trash sadly.


----------



## GhostLatte (May 12, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Point is you can't mock someone's believe & say it's ok & it's a freedom of speech. He did wrong. It's kinda like for example your taking a shower & some stranger comes breaks into your house finding some digital pokemon sh-t (Which is obviously stupid thing) & says what a strange pokemon you are & makes video of you of being naked & you say it's ok for him to break in my house & make video of me being naked & call me a strange pokemon because it's freedom of speech. Man grow up! I know you wouldn't allowed such thing to happen in your house & if it happens you'll call the police for sure.


Sorry to break it you buddy, but hate speech is still considered freedom of speech.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 12, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Point is you can't mock someone's believe & say it's ok & it's a freedom of speech. He did wrong. It's kinda like for example your taking a shower & some stranger comes breaks into your house finding some digital pokemon sh-t (Which is obviously stupid thing) & says what a strange pokemon you are & makes video of you of being naked & you say it's ok for him to break in my house & make video of me being naked & call me a strange pokemon because it's freedom of speech. Man grow up! I know you wouldn't allowed such thing to happen in your house & if it happens you'll call the police for sure.



You can, though seemingly not in Russia and the fact that it is the case (in multiple senses of the term) puts Russia at odds with many of the legal systems elsewhere in the world where a law against that is not only not a thing but actually a law that runs contrary to principles governing laws. If we believe in the principles of Westphalian sovereignty then Russia is free and clear to do that, however if Russia also wants to call itself a wonderful country with good laws and whatnot then all this is a clear mark against them.

Your example is not even a strawman, it is completely absurd as there are a bunch of other rules that would be broken in the process of that example (trespassing and possibly worse if they do not leave requested, violation of privacy and more besides).


----------



## Benja81 (May 12, 2017)

Breaking the law you are trying to protest is not a good idea, because it will be more than simple for them to lock you up, problem solved for them.


----------



## Pluupy (May 12, 2017)

I blame the priest for not keeping his attention or giving him proper guidance to prevent such rudeness in the house of The Lord.



SG854 said:


> Calling Bruce Jenner a man should be 100% legal. And and being able to call those people dicks, that call her a man should be 100% legal too.


Bruce Jenner was a very handsome man, though. Like, he was one of the most attractive men out there back in the day.


----------



## SonicCloud (May 12, 2017)

Even through im a believer and a christian , this is completely stupid. Yeah it could have been a law saying you shouldn't play games there (especially a dead 2016 game) however , putting in jail someone for 3.5 years for this reason is absolutely stupid. I wouldn't like to imagine how Russia can be.


----------



## the_randomizer (May 12, 2017)

duffmmann said:


> The guy knowingly broke the law and got punished, simple as that.   There are all sorts of harmless laws in the world you can break and get punished for, get over it.   Loitering, jaywalking, smoking weed, depending where you are you can get fined or jail time.  If you want to rebel, awesome then go ahead and do so, but be prepared to face the consequences if you do and get caught, and don't expect any sympathy from me.  That guy knew exactly what he was doing and now he has to face the consequences.



Something being law doesn't make it moral, legality and morality don't always go hand in hand.


----------



## Deleted member 377734 (May 12, 2017)

....You gotta play when you gotta play....only he did it in the wrong place this time..


----------



## SG854 (May 12, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> I blame the priest for not keeping his attention or giving him proper guidance to prevent such rudeness in the house of The Lord.
> 
> 
> Bruce Jenner was a very handsome man, though. Like, he was one of the most attractive men out there back in the day.


lol, I meant as an insult now. To be honest I don't know if she will be insulted. I got it from a previous post #198 that its an insult. I don't really follow Bruce Jenner or any other celebrities, don't really care for them. I do know Jenner is trans though.


----------



## pastaconsumer (May 12, 2017)

Could have sworn I heard about this almost a year ago...


----------



## CodyMKW (May 12, 2017)

they put Mewtwo in that Churchthe guy just wanted to find it :'(


----------



## Pluupy (May 12, 2017)

SG854 said:


> lol, I meant as an insult now. To be honest I don't know if she will be insulted. I got it from a previous post #198 that its an insult. I don't really follow Bruce Jenner or any other celebrities, don't really care for them. I do know Jenner is trans though.


People consider it an insult because it invalidates their current identity as trans. Personally, I wouldn't mind but whatever. Rue Paul used to look beautiful as a man or woman. That dude had it going on.


----------



## Natural (May 12, 2017)

YoshiB said:


> uhhhhh...
> 
> Okay so this is...unusual.
> 
> society, why are you going downhill like this????



LOL. The expression your avatar is wearing is very fitting for this topic.


----------



## duffmmann (May 12, 2017)

the_randomizer said:


> Something being law doesn't make it moral, legality and morality don't always go hand in hand.



Sure, but I'm just saying if you know the potential consequences of your actions and go though with them anyway, then you shouldn't be surprised nor look for sympathy when you find yourself in hot water.


----------



## SG854 (May 12, 2017)

Pluupy said:


> People consider it an insult because it invalidates their current identity as trans. Personally, I wouldn't mind but whatever. Rue Paul used to look beautiful as a man or woman. That dude had it going on.


Ha ha, Well I ain't gay so no comment from me on a mans looks or use to be man.

?


----------



## rikumax25! (May 12, 2017)

not to be harsh, but he's publicly showing hes breaking the law


retrofan_k said:


> Typical religious crap again, causing more harm than good and if it wasn't Russia, it be somewhere else in the world and they always need a fall guy to blame.  Ridiculous


----------



## rt141 (May 12, 2017)

Sounds to me like Russia has laws that prohibit you from using technology/cameras in churches for purposes other than preaching.

Of course this is outrageous and dumb. On the other hand, if you know what the law is, idiotic as it might be, you kinda have to respect it or else this happens.


----------



## Soulsilve2010 (May 12, 2017)

"denial of the existence of Jesus and Prophet Muhammad",so Islam rules Russia too?Thought it was just Europe and Sweden.Hope the guy isn't murdered over this.I heard someone was killed over a pork sandwich prank once.Oh and you can also go to jail for "violating religious feelings".I have quite a few very rude things to say but won't say them.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 12, 2017)

Soulsilve2010 said:


> so Islam rules Russia too?


 Not "rules" but with strong presence. 
Has always been the case since centuries. 
I find it laugh inducing how people only realize some centuries long status quo as if it was news or something.


----------



## Soulsilve2010 (May 12, 2017)

rastsan said:


> For me this isn't about free speech its about a guy who knew better about doing something really disrespectful and against the law.  For some reason the videos are still up... Part of the sentence should have been to take them down.  In fact I get the free speech thing but wasn't about free speech or his tactic would have been different.  Organize a protest, other legal and perfectly good ways to change the law were available.  Does this article talk about that in any way?  NO.  That right there is pretty telling.  its a disrespectful guy.  Now me going to request this thread being shut down.


Are..Are you trolling?No one is this wrapped up in their religion.And no the thread won't go away because your mad,GBATemp is not your safespace.


----------



## deinonychus71 (May 12, 2017)

Russia please don't give ideas to Mike Pence...
BTW: Some laws are just as stupid in the US, and pretty much everywhere else.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 12, 2017)

deinonychus71 said:


> Russia please don't give ideas to Mike Pence...
> BTW: Some laws are just as stupid in the US, and pretty much everywhere else.


Singapore laws say hi!


----------



## Bladexdsl (May 12, 2017)

why is chewing gum there 4 times?


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 12, 2017)

Bladexdsl said:


> why is chewing gum there 4 times?


No idea, buy you're also fined for spitting, singing, feeding pigeons, etc.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 12, 2017)

I spoke to someone that lived in Singapore once; apparently they are pretty hot on such things there too.
Still
Chewing gum does result in a fair amount of cleanup, fining for its use in public would seem to be in line with other disruptive activities you might be free to do at home (see also places that might say no being drunk in public). The litter laws there are also quite strict so this could play into that.
Pigeons are considered pests and wild animals. There are laws here about not feeding seagulls ( http://www.eadt.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.4161282!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg ), despite them otherwise being fairly well protected. US has a bunch of similar ones for wild animals http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=19392 , and searching around similar things exist in many countries.
Spitting is an interesting one and may have to contemplate China (of which the vast majority of the population is ethnic Chinese) where spitting, as in straight up hocking a loogie, is/was a popular pastime among those of a certain age.

I think most of those are "you all live in a city less than 1000km squared, and there 5 million of you (making it the third most densely populated state on earth), maybe try keeping it clean and not disrupting things for other people". In this case I am not so big on corporal punishment for vandalism but other than that most of those would not seem to violate a right considered as fundamental in many places as free speech, as was the case with this Russian law.


----------



## grossaffe (May 12, 2017)

I worked with a guy who would be arrested if he went back to Singapore.


----------



## Subtle Demise (May 12, 2017)

Haider Raza said:


> Point is you can't mock someone's believe & say it's ok & it's a freedom of speech. He did wrong. It's kinda like for example your taking a shower & some stranger comes breaks into your house finding some digital pokemon sh-t (Which is obviously stupid thing) & says what a strange pokemon you are & makes video of you of being naked & you say it's ok for him to break in my house & make video of me being naked & call me a strange pokemon because it's freedom of speech. Man grow up! I know you wouldn't allowed such thing to happen in your house & if it happens you'll call the police for sure.


Well here in the USA you can go into a church and say "Jesus was a hook-nosed kike!" but it's the church's responsibility to throw you out or press trespassing charges if you don't leave. That's way different than the government saying you can't say the phrase in question.


----------



## smile72 (May 12, 2017)

dimmidice said:


> That's nonsense. If your country passed a law saying the internet is now banned would you just stand for it? Where do you draw the line? Or a law saying every sunday at 13:00 everyone has to stand on their hands for half an hour? What he did wasn't wrong at all. It's just against the law. And regardless of it being the law doesn't mean the punishment is just. Punishing someone just because the law says it's what's required doesn't mean its morally justified.


About the internet being banned this is such a huge irony given that we are talking about Russia and Russia has the lovely neighbors China and North Korea. But yeah, I agree with you this law is shit..like so many other Russian laws especially now with their attempts to force Facebook, Google and Youtube to either leave the country or give data about their Russian customers to the government.....I really hope something can be done for this guy.


----------



## raulpica (May 12, 2017)

I'll remind you guys that:
1. Flaming is not okay and will get you banned from a thread, and also receive a warning.
2. Discussing religion is fine, OFFENDING it is not. You don't believe in something, that's cool, but mocking other people's beliefs (e.g.: by saying stuff like "religion sucks / it should be destroyed / caused all the evils in the world") is EXTREMELY rude and against the rules.

Thanks.


----------



## AboodXD (May 12, 2017)

That's why I say, _*don't get yourself involved with religion stuff!*
Everyone has their own opinion, which doesn't mean you can go and criticize other people's beliefs._


----------



## smile72 (May 12, 2017)

AboodXD said:


> That's why I say, _*don't get yourself involved with religion stuff!*
> Everyone has their own opinion, which doesn't mean you can go and criticize other people's beliefs._


Exactly,even if you don't believe what the other person believes it doesn't matter. There is no need to criticize religion in this instance.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 12, 2017)

If criticising is taking what something says and running it through various trials of logic and understandings of the world, as it is when we do it for games, films, books, tools, cars, food... then religion is certainly not protected, and I would have serious opposition to it even being considered for such a thing.

For the sake of maintaining some kind of civil discourse I guess we can say if you are going to make a claim then prepare to back it up. I mean how can religion be the cause of all evils when it could be argued to be a symptom of the underlying human condition, or indeed that of many animals (they want to eat, and to continue eating, some kind of cohesive and shared philosophy, often based around a leader, then helping facilitate that). I also quite dislike seeing people state "you are ? therefore you believe *", it might well be the case but you have to first let someone express that really, or have it a logical conclusion from what they said (I believe every word in this book is true and that forms my philosophy sort of thing). If nothing else it prevents discourse and if your aim is to demonstrate how something might be false a death by a thousand cuts is more effective than a mass assault -- planting the seeds of doubt vs transplanting a whole forest.

Personally I find the idea that someone would willingly surrender their agency to a "higher power" utterly mind boggling, give or take my understanding of developmental psychology and other aspects of psychology, but from what I have experienced you can still get some good done with those which have.


----------



## Angely (May 12, 2017)

Hmmm, interesting.

I don't think it's religion that ruins things, but the people that make bad choices. you can try to use religion as an excuse for making a bad choice, doing something bad, but it's still won't change the fact you did/chose to do something bad. I personally really dislike it when religion is being used as excuse to enforce law/punish people. It especially gets complicated when someone does not belong to the same religious group or is forced to live with peole that force their relgion on them despite not believing the same & yet accepts the religions exisitence.

I think it's stupid/pointless they sent him to jail, since it's the people that'll have to pay then & the state won't earn much from him being in jail. The should've given him a community service sentice or so, eventhough it's kind of childish what he did & this whole trial is childisch in my eyes. So much drama for someone playing a game in a church really I think it's also a bit sad that people believe it's offensive to god etc. (who kows god was having a blast watching him play too, idk).

Also something else I dislike it when people often speak on behalf of a deity/someone else & feel entitled to harm others on behalf on that deity/person too, that is also harmful & bad in my opnion.-.-'

 I dont hate religion, but I dislike when it's being forced on you leaving you with no other option, but to rebel if you're feeling oppressed/trapped etc. I was actually raised strict religious & often parents forced me to church & even threatned to throw me out if I didn't go (no church = no home, luckily my parents changed later) & I can say that it's behaviours like this that can cause people that don't believe/don't unserdtand faith feel hate or disrepect towards anyone who believes in a deity etc. I actually think everyone is a believer/ believe in something or else it'd be hard to live in this world. Though it doesn't mean that you should force your believes on others, this is what causes wars etc. In the end people still can't handle the subject of beliefs well without feeling, offended, hurt etc. at some point. There's always something negative that caused another negative reaction, when something like this happens it's sad.

I also think it's people that chose to feel offended sometimes. That's also something to keep in mind. I always try not to get  offended, especially when they're trying to offend me i'll just ignore them if possible. Got to use my ability to believe to turn those people nonexistant, right? If they want  my attention, they'd have to try diffenrtly then if they don't like being ignored by me. It solved some attempt at bullying/humilation I had to sometimes endure as a kid.

I have to say I don't get the whole anti-blasphemy in law enforce ment either. I think state & religion should be seperated or we'll keep seeing these kind of mess. It'd get blasphemy law if we were in say heaven & there was a real god ruling or so. Leave law enforcement/punishments regarding to deity/holy beings etc. to themselves, that's the only way to prevents these kind of things. I mean what's the point of a human punishing a human for offending a deity...do you still get it?


----------



## efflucas (May 12, 2017)

Wow, Just wow... I don't even know what to say


----------



## Subtle Demise (May 12, 2017)

Bottom line, it should have been a matter between the church and the guy, no government intervention was needed.


----------



## SG854 (May 12, 2017)

Religion is one giant mess.

Heres my problem with religion, many religions contradict each other, many claim that they are correct, and not to believe other false religions or Gods because its a sin. With your soul at stake here you have to make a right choice, and pick the right religion so you won't suffer for eternity. With over 4,000 religions, none of them able to prove the existence of God or if their religion is the true correct one, which one do you pick? Why doesn't God/s tell you which is the correct religion? Its all like winning the lottery, its all just guessing games. If your God really loved you why would he leave your life to a gamble and not tell you? Your God/s sounds like a complete asshole treating your life like a game.

Some people say that God/s doesn't tell anyone because no one would believe it. Some people also claim that God/s is all knowing, so wouldn't an all knowing God/s KNOW exactly what to do to get us to believe, if not then he's not all knowing. Maybe he can make it dark outside during the day time, if a God can create a world wide flood, then I'm sure he can do something extraordinary to get people to believe. Some say that God doesn't want to meddle in human affairs and remains hidden for reasons. Does this sound like a smart decision from an all knowing loving God, especially when religious wars breaks out, and suffering happens.

So why even bother with religion? Especially if your just guessing. Every religion is just as valid. Do you really want to research and shuffle through 4,000 religions to find one, or do you pick randomly without researching other religions? Would your choice be taken seriously especially if your just picking randomly and without researching many of the other beliefs? Will you be punished or your soul suffer for not following Gods specific rules? In this case your not allowed to interpret religion how ever you want, you have to interpret how God wants you to interpret it, or else if you do something God doesn't like then your doomed for suffering. Is it the God of Abraham or some other God? For hope of an afterlife? Does guessing religions sound like a good chance of hope to you. For morals from religious stories? Well I get my morals from Mickey Mouse, Humpty Dumpty, Pinocchio, and the 3 little pigs. Pinocchio has good morals on not lying. I get my morals from an imaginary rat. Theres no need for religion from the morals department. If you like getting morals from religion then fine. But to actually believe in the religion, especially if your religion has an all powerful God that is treating your life like a gamble, and is the one dishing out the punishments without telling you the correct one, why even bother with an unloving asshole of a God?

My take from religion is the family and community it brings more so than the actual beliefs. People love interacting with others. But can't that be done without religion. Many people have attended anime, comic, ect, conventions and also many non nerdy events without religion being the main focus, so a family community can be done without religion. Especially if your religion has an F'd up God and its all just guessing games.


----------



## Eirikr (May 12, 2017)

SG854 said:


> Religion is one giant mess.
> 
> Heres my problem with religion, many religions contradict each other, many claim that they are correct, and not to believe other false religions or Gods because its a sin. With your soul at stake here you have to make a right choice, and pick the right religion so you won't suffer for eternity. With over 4,000 religions, none of them able to prove the existence of God or if their religion is the true correct one, which one do you pick? Why doesn't God/s tell you which is the correct religion? Its all like winning the lottery, its all just guessing games. If your God really loved you why would he leave your life to a gamble and not tell you? Your God/s sounds like a complete asshole treating your life like a game.
> 
> ...



What you said *SG854 *in many ways sums up my way of thinking. I was born and raised a Catholic but as I matured, went to college and university and developed critical thinking, I realized that I could no longer believe in this god of the Bible, at least not with the knowledge I had acquired. It seems this place that we live in is far more complex and different than we ever imagined. There may be something more, yes, however whatever it is remains at best unknown right now.

I feel cannot be blamed for failing to believe in a god(s) that has chosen to reveal himself to me through such poor means and amidst contradiction.
If He/She/It/They want me to follow their word then they are going to find a better means to talk to me than by some thousand year old books written by men whom I don’t know, about events I cannot verify. Think of it this way: Do you believe EVERYTHING that is written in the newspapers or said on the news? Obviously not. Why? Most likely because you are aware that information can easily be manipulated or created to fit certain purposes. The same doubt should be exercised for anything man has written.

However there is one thing I would like to point out to you *SG854* or anyone else reading. Not all religions are intolerant of others. In today’s world, religious intolerance seems to be a particularly “Abrahamic” problem though in no way limited to those religions. The seed of intolerance in the Abrahamic religions lies in the fact that central to their belief is the idea of the One True God, which is in their view the only valid truth (yes, I’m generalizing a bit). To them, there is NO other truth beyond this god and his Holy Word. Belief in this is crucial, it relies on what they call faith, something that cannot be questioned. And thus dies critical thought and therein is born intolerance and perfect coercion weapons for the powerful to use...

Returning to the vlogger, religious authorities should question themselves as to why they have to so vehemently enforce and protect God. Isn’t there suppose to be final Judgment Day after all? Why not let god take care of that abominable heretic PokymanGo player? God’s been pretty silent for sometime now. Also import things have been happening in his “_name_” for thousands of years!! Why so silent, why so indifferent this loving Father??!!
Yes, I deem it is finally time to see him act!! After all, why should we humans always have to do all of God’s dirty work??? 'Oh wait’ says the believer, 'hmmm...?? If we didn’t act in his name, maybe _He_ wouldn't either... “Not good!” says the believer. “That could possibly negate his existence, and this thought process my faith does not permit”.

Our potential cosmic insignificance and the seemingly ever pervasive silence of the Universe is, I’ll admit, in some ways quite scary. Rather than facing this very real possibility, many choose religion instead. In the end, despite all that I just said, can we really blame them for doing so?

The human in it's current limited state is a problem. We function on old hardware that so desperately needs an upgrade. Science & Transhumanism might offer a solution.


----------



## supergamer368 (May 12, 2017)

Prans said:


> catching Pokémons


 Plural of Pokemon is also Pokemon.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 12, 2017)

Wow I didn't expect this kind of deep conversation here. Thanks, *SG854 *and *Eirikr**.

SG854*, you said that some people think God doesn't reveal himself because then no one would believe. Isn't it the opposite? If he revealed himself - with a mircale everyone could witness (like a writing in the sky saying: "'I'm God, believe in me") - then everyone would believe and everyone would fear him and go to paradise. But that would mean God wants people to go to hell or at least test them. Otherwise he would show himself. But if he likes to test people, then the naive ones are better off. Critical thinking would be risky.

*Eirikr, *what you said about Abrahamic religions is true. Interestingly even the Jewish faith was not monotheistic in the beginning. During the Babylonian Exile the Jewish faith was in danger. During (and right after this time) most of the Old Testament was written or at least redacted. I personally think the Babylonian Exile caused the emergence of Abrahamic monotheism in the following way: The Jews were defeated and exiled even though they believed in their God. So they had 2 choices: accept that their God is weaker than others or negate the existence of other Gods altogether (i.e. there is only one God - our God - and he punished us because we weren't obeying him well enough).


About the case: Scary development. First Russia bans Jehova's Witnesses (they aren't violent, I wonder if they are called extremists because of the refusal of blood transfusion) and now this. Offending religious feelings is not a crime. It's an idea/ideology. Ideas can be called into question. By using this logic the Russian government puts itself on the same side as the people who rejoiced in the killing of Charlie Hebdo. And calling the existence of Jesus or Muhammad into question is illegal? This must be a joke/misunderstanding.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 12, 2017)

supergamer368 said:


> Plural of Pokemon is also Pokemon.


In Japanese perhaps, because there are no plurals in Japanese.
But in English with English grammar?

Example of a portmanteau in English:
Fan Magazine = Fanzine
Plural = Fanzines

Another portmanteau:
Pocket Monster = Pokemon

Following English grammar...
Pocket Monsters = Pokemons


----------



## bi388 (May 12, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> In Japanese perhaps, because there are no plurals in Japanese.
> But in English with English grammar?
> 
> Example of a portmanteau in English:
> ...


People still say Pokemon as a plural in English. We don't have very consistent pluralizations.


----------



## SG854 (May 12, 2017)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Wow I didn't expect this kind of deep conversation here. Thanks, *SG854 *and *Eirikr**.
> 
> SG854*, you said that some people think God doesn't reveal himself because then no one would believe. Isn't it the opposite? If he revealed himself - with a mircale everyone could witness (like a writing in the sky saying: "'I'm God, believe in me") - then everyone would believe and everyone would fear him and go to paradise. But that would mean God wants people to go to hell or at least test them. Otherwise he would show himself. But if he likes to test people, then the naive ones are better off. Critical thinking would be risky.
> 
> ...


I have actually heard the argument from believers, that the reason God doesn't reveal himself is because no one would believe. If some guy walked around and claimed he was God would you believe him? Which is why I brought the counter argument, if he's an all powerful God like some claim, then why not do some extraordinary miracle to prove he, she or it is God. If God wants to test people, supposedly being all knowing, knowing that there's over 4,000 religions in the world, he must know that its very hard for us to know which religion is the true one. So having a test to stay faithful, to not believe in false religions, and to believe in his true religion, is a very stupid test by God, because without any help or evidence, which one do we pick to stay faithful? We might've been believing in the wrong religion this whole time, we were faithful but faithful to the wrong God. Truly a God can't be this stupid and have a stupid test.

Also I would like to add. People say that morals from religion are the best type of morals, because other morals are man made and can be subjected to corruption. But the problem with this is, people pick and choose what things to believe in the bible, and what not to believe. If God made morals are better than man made, then why not follow everything in the Bible exactly? If your picking and choosing what to believe in the book, then your basing it on your own man made beliefs, not Gods beliefs, and your corrupting Gods morals. Your destroying the whole purpose of religion, and furthering my point that its not needed for morals, because you already have your own idea what good morals are from sources you got elsewhere.

Many religions have been through so many revisions throughout history, including the abrahamic ones. When you read the Christian Bible there are a few moral stories in there, probably used to make the bible not seem so horrible. But its mostly a book of rules of things you can and can't do, and in the Old Testament stories of God punishing people for not following specific rules. The theme of believing in God is rampant in the bible. If its a book of mostly rules then obviously its there for a purpose. The purpose being to try control people, and using fear to accomplish that. Because why else would you have commandments in there and having God torture people? Many political powers throughout history have used religion to control the population. During US slavery, slave owners tried to convince the common person that owning slaves was ok, using the curse of ham story from the bible, saying that black people are cursed, and it worked.

It seems the most logical conclusion is that some religions were used by political hustlers and they revised it to suit there purpose. Many would not follow everything a political person tells you to do, but if you come up with a religion and create fear to believe in it, then you can control the masses easier.
If this isn't a book used to try to control people the why are there so many rules, and punishments involved for not following? If its not a book created and used by political people, then why doesn't God reveal that it actually came from him, and the rules are from him? It should be an easy task for an almighty God.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 13, 2017)

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I hadn't heard that argument before. It's a silly one.

What you said is correct. However, there is a way for a Christian not to follow everything in the Bible while still believing in divine morals: He will argue that he is no longer under the old covenant. The problem with this is of course the fact that God still seems like a brutal/immoral God by today's standards. He is actually morally perfect and the source of morality but there was a "limited" time when stoning, raping, genocide etc was ok/mandatory.
In principal though: if unchangeable morality exists, it would be an argument for the existence of an eternal God (not necessarily the Christian one). I'm just not sure whether unchangeable morality does exist or not.


----------



## SG854 (May 13, 2017)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> Ok, thanks for the clarification. I hadn't heard that argument before. It's a silly one.
> 
> What you said is correct. However, there is a way for a Christian not to follow everything in the Bible while still believing in divine morals: He will argue that he is no longer under the old covenant. The problem with this is of course the fact that God still seems like a brutal/immoral God by today's standards. He is actually morally perfect and the source of morality but there was a "limited" time when stoning, raping, genocide etc was ok/mandatory.
> In principal though: if unchangeable morality exists, it would be an argument for the existence of an eternal God (not necessarily the Christian one). I'm just not sure whether unchangeable morality does exist or not.


If it would be an argument for the existence of God, then which religions God will it prove to be the true God. Is it the greek gods? The Christian God? Any other? Theres still the I don't know which religion is the correct one, and it goes back to the top post I made, #202. They are shooting in the dark with that argument. And goes to the, why doesn't God reveal himself, and putting our lives in a gamble, which is the most F'd up thing ever. There are so many religions so which one? The people arguing for their religion don't even know, you can't without proof to point in the right direction, and are basically playing guessing games, so why bother with this mess?


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 13, 2017)

SG854 said:


> If it would be an argument for the existence of God, then which religions God will it prove to be the true God. Is it the islamic religion? The Christian God? Any other? Theres still the I don't know which religion is the correct one, and it goes back to the top post I made, #202. They are shooting in the dark with that argument. And goes to the, why doesn't God reveal himself, and putting our lives in a gamble, which is the most F'd up thing ever. There are so many religions so which one? The people arguing for their religion don't even know, you can't without proof to point in the right direction, and are basically playing guessing games.



FWIW Islam, Christianity and Judaism have the same god.

Edit Also Rastafarianism!

Rough timeline is prehistory monotheistic religion  --reformation--> juadism claim there will be two further commings of profets --> Jesus claims to be first coming -- reformation --> christianty claims there will be a further coming --> Mohammed Claims final profet of this god and cancels second coming.
|
--> Rastarfians claim Haile Selassie I is second coming -- reformation --> form Rastarfarianism


----------



## SG854 (May 13, 2017)

wolfmankurd said:


> FWIW Islam, Christianity and Judaism have the same god.


whoops my bad i meant to say greek gods, I'll edit my post.


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 13, 2017)

SG854 said:


> whoops my bad i meant to say greek gods, I'll edit my post.


It's confusing so I edited my post to have a rough timeline of where Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Rastafarianism (and who knows how many more religions) diverge.


----------



## Most-Wanted (May 13, 2017)

I would burn that church down if i lived in russia


----------



## bi388 (May 13, 2017)

Most-Wanted said:


> I would burn that church down if i lived in russia


Hate doesn't counter hate


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 13, 2017)

bi388 said:


> Hate doesn't counter hate


Exactly, that would be about as effective as book burnings are.


----------



## SG854 (May 13, 2017)

wolfmankurd said:


> It's confusing so I edited my post to have a rough timeline of where Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Rastafarianism (and who knows how many more religions) diverge.


Its a big mess isn't it with all these religions. The God of Abraham, Yahweh, came from some proto religion and he had a wife Ashera in that religion. So there was a Religion before it evolved into the current Abrahamic religions. Who know how far back it goes? Too many revisions and changes.

The goddess Ashera was mentioned in the bible, till she was almost fully edited out. Hebrew scriptures mentions Yahweh and his Ashera. Too many edits in religion.


----------



## Deleted User (May 13, 2017)

Didn't a church compare Mewtwo to Christian values? Jailing him for playing a game featuring a popular and powerful Christian character is blasphemous.


----------



## Monado_III (May 13, 2017)

UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> *The Jews were defeated and exiled even though they believed in their God.* *So they had 2 choices: accept that their God is weaker than others or negate the existence of other Gods altogether (i.e. there is only one God - our God - and he punished us because we weren't obeying him well enough).*


Did you read the OT? Like half of the OT is prophets telling the jews that they will be exiled/taken over if they don't start following God and that it doesn't mean crap if you 'believe' in God if you don't follow any of his commands. That's why the Judeans survived the Assyrians unlike the Israelites, because they were following God (see here) at the time Israel fell.


----------



## kuwanger (May 13, 2017)

Madridi said:


> Without going into much detail, "unjust law" is subjective.



Morals are subjective.  Yes, lots of morals lots of people agree with, but we're right now having a discussion of the morality of freedom of speech even if we aren't outright framing it in those terms.  Then we're extrapolating our belief in morality to the codification in laws.  Which is, at least in a democracy, a large basis on what is law, just or unjust.

So, it seems oddly dismissive to point out that the unjustness of a law is subjective.



Madridi said:


> As for this particular case, like someone mentioned before on here, his action was provocative one. A church is a place of worship. Consider it as "house rules". If he does not believe in a religion, then why go there to begin with?



You mean like Martin Luther?  Honestly, as far as Christianity goes I'm an atheist*.  But a large part of the way in which churches change is precisely from people internal to the church who disagree with the majority who work to convince them or who splinter off into sub-denominations.  In any case, the notion of a church as a place of worship is pretty hilarious given how little actual worship I ever saw at any church.

* Strictly speaking I'm an agnostic--for all I know we've got a Loki-like creator God.  I just don't believe in the Christian God (or really any of the related ilk) because of basically guilt by association (the Old Testament is absurd and any claim any of it as a basis for the authority of their religion is also absurd); haven't really seen any other religions that don't fall into the same trap of absurd ancient text** and possibly newer tangent revisions that are the same guilt by association.  But atheism is something of a spectrum and I have no idea if Ruslan Sokolovsky is a hardcore atheist (belief in no Gods, possible disdain of all religions, etc) or a softcore atheist (perhaps just doesn't believe in the teaches of the current Russian Orthodox Church (especially with its State ties) but may well agree with some previous incarnation).  Which reminds me of the joke of the person who became an atheist precisely because they attended Catholic School. There's also the whole point of agnostic Christians who take the statement of agnosticism more literally and recognize that salvation comes from faith/grace/whatever, not secret knowledge.

** Scientology isn't a religion...yet.  Wait until its text our ancient.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (May 13, 2017)

Monado_III said:


> Did you read the OT? Like half of the OT is prophets telling the jews that they will be exiled/taken over if they don't start following God and that it doesn't mean crap if you 'believe' in God if you don't follow any of his commands. That's why the Judeans survived the Assyrians unlike the Israelites, because they were following God (see here) at the time Israel fell.



Sorry but you are naive if you think prophecies are always written before the events.

"Some scholars hypothesize that Judaism was originally a form of monolatrism or henotheism. In this hypothesis both the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah had YHWH as their state god, while also acknowledging the existence of other gods.[27] In this hypothesis, beginning with the fall of *Judah to Babylon*, when a small circle of priests and scribes gathered around the exiled royal court developed the *first idea of YHWH as the sole God of the world*.[17]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism#Judaism


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 13, 2017)

kuwanger said:


> ** Scientology isn't a religion...yet.  Wait until its text our ancient.



This bullshit is my biggest problem with religions. They always want beneficial treatment. It's never about equal respect to other religions. Scientology is just as much a religion as the Abrahamic ones.


----------



## FAST6191 (May 13, 2017)

wolfmankurd said:


> This bullshit is my biggest problem with religions. They always want beneficial treatment. It's never about equal respect to other religions. Scientology is just as much a religion as the Abrahamic ones.



That gets tricky. The problem with scientology being called a religion tends to be with governments and how they classify things for tax purposes, mainly as they don't want cults to benefit from such things. Scientology then has trouble as it meets some of the definitions of cult, though at the same time they have some very good lawyers and are not afraid to use them.

Regarding not respecting other religions I can't really blame them. One of the reasons given for the decline of polytheism was economic -- you have 1000 people worshipping the god of the day, and 1000 for the god of the night and they present a less cohesive front than 1500 going in for some singular boss god. Knowing this and needing retention you kind of have to start otherising people.

That said special treatment strikes me as odd. I was stateside once and the news was crying over how one church was going bankrupt. They then showed some pictures inside it. Fully gym, massive pool, cinemas, concert hall... basically one of the best leisure centres I have ever seen, and apparently this was a small one (it was fall smaller than what gets dubbed a mega church elsewhere there). I went past it a few weeks later and it was better than the news people had shown. Was not a tax bill which ultimately did them in, don't know if it was completely tax free but were that my house I would be paying more, but the bills for building it caught up with them.


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 13, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> The problem with scientology being called a religion tends to be with governments and how they classify things for tax purposes, mainly as they don't want cults to benefit from such things.



IMHO they are all cults with mostly negative effects. I would want them all to be stripped of tax benefits. They should have to go the non-profit route for tax benefits and prove themselves charities like atheistic organisations do.


----------



## cthompson80 (May 13, 2017)

You guys are getting way off topic. Why not end this thread? There's no reason why this kid needs to be defended for his actions. If you feel laws need to be broken then you'd have all ready went and broken one. Being rebellious and all. However you remain posting on here not practicing what you preach. Hurry up, break that law, stand your ground and get arrested. Once you get back please post on here how your time in jail went. Also please don't indulge us with nonsense if you didn't get arrested.

If you feel this kid was unjustfully condemned then do as he did. At least he did it. What have you done? Nothing but post your opinion on here. Those of us who agree with the law and their actions speak facts and true common knowledge. Not opinion. It doesn't take a lot of thought to not do something when you know you may face bad consequences for doing it.

Whatever though. This is what separates the smart from the dumb. Don't think though that your efforts are noble or revolutionary or will make a good impact. All you will accomplish is becoming a drain on society. Get off your soap box and doing something more productive than cry and complain about the laws of the land. I have no sympathy for those that break the law, well knowing that they've done so. Those people deserve whatever punishment is coming to them regardless of the reasons behind their actions.

This law isn't hurting anyone. If anything it's protecting people and giving them the peace of mind to practice their religion in a religious place without impeding upon their belief system. If the tables were turned I'm sure this kid wouldn't appreciate it if religious people came into his home or establishment and imposed their religious beliefs upon himself and those who share the space in his establishment. All the while there's rules posted saying "No religious practices or discussion allowed. Violators will be prosecuted." If they did he would be offended and pursue legal matters. Assuming he would of course.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bi388 (May 13, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> If you feel laws need to be broken then you'd have all ready went and broken one. Being rebellious and all. However you remain posting on here not practicing what you preach. Hurry up, break that law, stand your ground and get arrested.
> ...
> This law isn't hurting anyone


I won't get arrested because free speech and playing games in church is legal here. They would just ask me to leave. Don't tell me that because I don't break a law that doesn't exist here I don't care about it existing somewhere else, that's a non sequitur and in general a shitty argument. Also the law is hurting someone, it's hurting anyone who wants to use their human right of free speech to say anything bad about the church. That's called fascism and don't tell me it's not harmful.


----------



## Elveman (May 14, 2017)

Well, this law in particular is absurd, no denies. Sometimes it seems that it exists purely to trigger non-believers. However, regarding this vlogger, he did all those things knowing about this law and breaking it on purpose, so, disregarding the absurdity of this law, that's the logical consequence here (although jeez, 3.5 years). Honestly, I don't really care if something supernatural exists out there or not (the only thing I believe in is the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics because the Copenhagen interpretation sucks) but this situation bothers me because the Pokemon community got involved again, and it's pretty harmful for the main series' players and non-Pokemon GO fans. For most people in our country that heard about Pokemon, the Pokemon franchise only means two things: the cartoon from 2000s and the Pokemon GO. They don't know anything about 2+ Gen Pokemon, and the standard reaction for playing pokemon (main series) is "You still play Pokemon?" implying the wave of hype when Pokemon GO was released, and nothing more. Take everything you know about genwunners, people saying that Pokemon is for kids etc., exponentiate that and you'll get the consequences of this game on Russian Pokemon community.
And now there's that. That means, more hatred towards Pokemon. Oh well


----------



## cthompson80 (May 14, 2017)

bi388 said:


> I won't get arrested because free speech and playing games in church is legal here. They would just ask me to leave. Don't tell me that because I don't break a law that doesn't exist here I don't care about it existing somewhere else, that's a non sequitur and in general a shitty argument. Also the law is hurting someone, it's hurting anyone who wants to use their human right of free speech to say anything bad about the church. That's called fascism and don't tell me it's not harmful.


I never said for you to go into a church to break a law. I just said go break a law.

Free speech has its limits and common sense goes so far when using it. Dumb decisions get dumb rewards. Argue it as much as you want. The kid is stupid. He's in jail now so it doesn't matter. One less punk kid to deal with. Maybe when he's 25 he'll have grown up some. I doubt it though. He seems to lack a fair amount of intelligence. Oh well. Peace be with you little boy 22. Lol

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## bi388 (May 14, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> I never said for you to go into a church to break a law. I just said go break a law.
> 
> Free speech has its limits and common sense goes so far when using it. Dumb decisions get dumb rewards. Argue it as much as you want. The kid is stupid. He's in jail now so it doesn't matter. One less punk kid to deal with. Maybe when he's 25 he'll have grown up some. I doubt it though. He seems to lack a fair amount of intelligence. Oh well. Peace be with you little boy 22. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


1. Why would I break a law to protest a different law that doesn't even exist in this country? What the hell would that accomplish? Tell the government "I robbed Wal-Mart because I don't like Russia infringing on free speach?" Also he seems way smarter than you. He understands that in order to make a change you have to work, fight and sacrifice unlike you who seem to think if you ignore other people being discriminated against, nothing will ever happen to you. 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


----------



## Dominator211 (May 14, 2017)

2 words - BULL SHIT


----------



## cthompson80 (May 14, 2017)

bi388 said:


> 1. Why would I break a law to protest a different law that doesn't even exist in this country? What the hell would that accomplish? Tell the government "I robbed Wal-Mart because I don't like Russia infringing on free speach?" Also he seems way smarter than you. He understands that in order to make a change you have to work, fight and sacrifice unlike you who seem to think if you ignore other people being discriminated against, nothing will ever happen to you.
> 
> First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
> Because I was not a Socialist.
> ...


The problem with all of this is that nothing will change. It's Russia. Do you really think they will change. Honestly?

As far as you comment on my intelligence. I could care less about your opinion there. I know what I am, my capabilities and what I'm about.

What I'm about to do now is leave this discussion because I've wasted too much time all ready.

Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## wolfmankurd (May 14, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> I never said for you to go into a church to break a law. I just said go break a law.
> 
> Free speech has its limits and common sense goes so far when using it. Dumb decisions get dumb rewards. Argue it as much as you want. The kid is stupid. He's in jail now so it doesn't matter. One less punk kid to deal with. Maybe when he's 25 he'll have grown up some. I doubt it though. He seems to lack a fair amount of intelligence. Oh well. Peace be with you little boy 22. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk




He's not in jail. Shows how little you know.


----------



## bi388 (May 14, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> The problem with all of this is that nothing will change. It's Russia. Do you really think they will change. Honestly?
> 
> As far as you comment on my intelligence. I could care less about your opinion there. I know what I am, my capabilities and what I'm about.
> 
> ...


Do you understand how fallacious your argument is an how many counter examples there are of nations that did change once people spoke out and protested? And before you say "one person does nothing" there always has to be a first. Provide me evidence no one will follow him.


----------



## SG854 (May 14, 2017)

Russia's anti blasphemy laws are very stupid.

Basically if one goes out their way to insult a religion they can be jailed. With this law you are prioritizing the beliefs of some citizens over others. Basically you are prioritizing the feelings of believers over non believers, saying that believers feelings are more valid, and non believers should shut the hell up. This doesn't sound like freedom of speech at all. There can be many valid reasons why one would criticize a religion. And criticizing may result in insulting a persons religious feelings, but this is something that shouldn't be enforced by law. Religion should not get special treatment. Criticizing a church, the punishment should be no more severe than criticizing an old rusty car. You are protecting the freedom of believers to speak out their beliefs, but the not the freedom of non believers to speak out their disbelief's.

You can't even say that you deny the existence of God in Russia or else you will be jailed. Which is stupid. Because everyone in Russia is denying the existence of someone else's God. If your a Catholic you obviously don't believe in Greek Gods, so therefore denying the existence of Greek Gods, so should Catholics be jailed? Also vice versa for people that believe in Greek Gods. So should everyone be jailed. Who makes these dumbass laws? So a Catholic gets a free pass when denying the existence of Greek Gods, or any other Gods besides there own, but an Atheist gets jailed for denying any Gods. What the fuck kind of shit is this? Religious conversations must be awkward as fuck in Russia. Be careful how you deny or else jail time for you. In my Catholic religion there is only one God and all other Gods are false Gods. Whoops you insulted other peoples Gods by calling them fake false Gods, jail time for you, oh wait they don't get jail time for preaching it at their church, but an atheist does get jailed on some website?

About the vlogger, he went in the church peacefully, he wasn't kicking, screaming, or breaking anything. He played Pokemon Go peacefully and left, no one said a word to him, many people didn't even notice what he did. So who was he offensive too? Was he really that offensive. It was a silent protest on Russia's stupid law, a protest done in a way many people would consider a mature way to protest, compared to people breaking things and burning buildings down. There was no kicking and screaming at all. It was so silent that people didn't even notice protesting. People didn't even notice till he put videos up. What he posts online is his beliefs and his right to point of view. He should not be punished for that. You expect him to respect other peoples beliefs, but hypocritically your not respecting his by giving him a sentence. If you don't respect him saying his disbeliefs then fine, but using it as part of his 3.5 year sentence is too far.


----------



## SS4 (May 15, 2017)

Pokémon Go is really dumb but it can't even begin (or hope) to compete with religion in the dumbness department


----------



## Captain_N (May 15, 2017)

gees. kinda harsh. but it is russia. and this is the type of government some want in the USA..... Imagine how many people would be jailed because they upset another. all you have to do is say trump is amazing or mac sux and the fragile snowflakes will get violent and burn down their own streets.....


----------



## Vipera (May 15, 2017)

BetaXenon said:


> This law saving, let's say, Americans from being insulted on every turn. (This one in the political TV shows receiving money for it so he isn't mind it much.)
> Russia is multi-religious, multicultural and multinational place. But you are supposed to respect other people, traditions and believes here. You are not suppose to publicly insult others views and suggest that others should do it too.


Such open-minded, professional country.


----------



## BetaXenon (May 16, 2017)

*Vipera,*
Well, yeah, or UK Embassy is full of trolls. Even before Jonson become UK premiere minister. Open-minded and professional trolls. With highest education on trolling.
But, honestly, we keep trolling in politic since before Cold War, thought only on diplomatic channels that deems already lost or unefective.
Cuba didn't count, we has been serious here.


----------



## sarkwalvein (May 16, 2017)

Oh, Russian homophobia...


----------



## OldGnashburg (May 19, 2017)

To comment on the historical side of the church, I believe the Tsar's were murdered for being immensely cruel, greedy, and downright terrible monarchs. From what I learned in school, in World War 1 I believe the Tsar's sent out their military to fight without guns, shoes or even food. This was one of the reasons for the Russian Revolution and, if you think about, the bastards kind of deserved it. I don't think any of their children should have been killed, though.


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 9, 2017)

He *KNEW* it was illegal, he *RECORDED* himself doing it... Gets arrested and sent to jail... Ridiculous laws or not can't say he didn't ask for it... Specially when he *had broken other laws and broke his house arrest rules already*... SMH...


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2017)

Wow such a necrobumo


----------



## Dionicio3 (Sep 9, 2017)

Tony_93 said:


> He *KNEW* it was illegal, he *RECORDED* himself doing it... Gets arrested and sent to jail... Ridiculous laws or not can't say he didn't ask for it... Specially when he *had broken other laws and broke his house arrest rules already*... SMH...


This was said multiple times, and this is a few months old


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 9, 2017)

1) I don't know why this showed up on my main paige as if it was a new article then...

2) I posted my opinion on the matter because that was how the author ended it, asking people to share their opinions in tge comments.

3) Just because other people thought the same things as me does it mean I should read thru 12 pages looking for similar comments and then avoid posting them? 

4) The guy was sentenced to 3.5 years, this article was posted just a few months ago... It hasn't become %100 irrelevant considering the laws are the same and guy still has 3 years plus to do in prison.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2017)

Tony_93 said:


> 1) I don't know why this showed up on my main paige as if it was a new article then...
> 
> 2) I posted my opinion on the matter because that was how the author ended it, asking people to share their opinions in tge comments.
> 
> ...


Every news thread has an expiry date. No thread has a shelf life of more then 3 months (the exceptions are rare and far between and this isnt one of them) and this thread ia was on its way out... 
There are only 12 pages, and even if you dont wanna read all this- jump to the last page to look at the last post before you post you own opinion...
About your 4, there are ppl who are sentenced for life. Thats not a reason to necrobump a thread about em for the rest of their lives... one of the forum's rules is to never necrobump...


----------



## Aletron9000 (Sep 10, 2017)

About 4 months back


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 10, 2017)

natanelho said:


> Every news thread has an expiry date. No thread has a shelf life of more then 3 months (the exceptions are rare and far between and this isnt one of them) and this thread ia was on its way out...
> There are only 12 pages, and even if you dont wanna read all this- jump to the last page to look at the last post before you post you own opinion...
> About your 4, there are ppl who are sentenced for life. Thats not a reason to necrobump a thread about em for the rest of their lives... one of the forum's rules is to never necrobump...



Do you have a source on the 3 month thread life spam rule? Do you have an official guide list on what constitues those "exeptions" and what not? How about you also get me a source on that rule to never necrobump while you are at it?

I read all the https://gbatemp.net/help/terms and didn't find a single mention to all your imaginary rules... So if I'm wrong please point me in the directiom of those rules and I will abide to them.


----------



## Aletron9000 (Sep 10, 2017)

Tony_93 said:


> Do you have a source on the 3 month thread life spam rule? Do you have an official guide list on what constitues those "exeptions" and what not? How about you also get me a source on that rule to never necrobump while you are at it?
> 
> I read all the https://gbatemp.net/help/terms and didn't find a single mention to all your imaginary rules... So if I'm wrong please point me in the directiom of those rules and I will abide to them.



From the rules
"Avoid bumping (reviving) old or new topics; they'll be replied to when they're replied to"


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 10, 2017)

-snip-


----------



## grossaffe (Sep 10, 2017)

Aletron9000 said:


> From the rules
> "Avoid bumping (reviving) old or new topics; they'll be replied to when they're replied to"


That's a bit ambiguous.  Could be aimed at people "bumping" a thread to get back to the top rather than just replying to the topic.


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 10, 2017)

Aletron9000 said:


> From the rules
> "Avoid bumping (reviving) old or new topics; *they'll be replied to when they're replied to*"



This is not about "necrobumping" but instead people bumping threads for the sake of it... you know those people who literally type "BUMP" instead of discussing the topic.

Don't know how I missed that the first time around lol


----------



## Subtle Demise (Sep 10, 2017)

cthompson80 said:


> If you feel laws need to be broken then you'd have all ready went and broken one. Being rebellious and all. However you remain posting on here not practicing what you preach.


I break laws I don't agree with on an a nearly daily basis.


cthompson80 said:


> This law isn't hurting anyone. If anything it's protecting people and giving them the peace of mind to practice their religion in a religious place without impeding upon their belief system. If the tables were turned I'm sure this kid wouldn't appreciate it if religious people came into his home or establishment and imposed their religious beliefs upon himself and those who share the space in his establishment.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelism


cthompson80 said:


> Free speech has its limits


No it doesn't.


As for bumping the thread, what was @Tony_93 supposed to do, make a whole new thread to comment on the topic? Don't be dumb you guys.


----------



## GhostLatte (Sep 10, 2017)

This incident reminds me of this for some reason.


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 10, 2017)

@Subtle Demise while I do agree that freedom of speech "doesn't have limits" I do agree that it should have repercussions (and it does)... I mean you can tell your boss that he should f*** himself if you want and he can tell you to look for a new job...

We also have to have in mind that this happened in a different country with different laws, freedom of speech isn't a global right.


----------



## bi388 (Sep 10, 2017)

Tony_93 said:


> @Subtle Demise while I do agree that freedom of speech "doesn't have limits" I do agree that it should have repercussions (and it does)... I mean you can tell your boss that he should f*** himself if you want and he can tell you to look for a new job...
> 
> We also have to have in mind that this happened in a different country with different laws, freedom of speech isn't a global right.


Freedom of speech has repercussions, not limits. A person or company can treat you differently because of something you say, but unless you are threatening someone's safety, the government cannot. Hence no there is no limit to freedom of speech besides when it is an issue of safety. As for whether it's a global right, legally no, but u firmly believe it is a universal human right which means I will stand by anyone in any nation who exercises the right, legal there or not.


----------



## Deleted User (Sep 10, 2017)

Tony_93 said:


> Do you have a source on the 3 month thread life spam rule? Do you have an official guide list on what constitues those "exeptions" and what not? How about you also get me a source on that rule to never necrobump while you are at it?
> 
> I read all the https://gbatemp.net/help/terms and didn't find a single mention to all your imaginary rules... So if I'm wrong please point me in the directiom of those rules and I will abide to them.


Avoid bumping (reviving) old or new topics; they'll be replied to when they're replied to.
Edit- sorry I just saw somebofy already said that...
Its not just the rules, thats part of the forum- people understand that replying to old threads isnt good...


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 10, 2017)

natanelho said:


> Avoid bumping (reviving) old or *new* topics; *they'll be replied to when they're replied to.*



And we already covered this rule previously, this is about people who make threads and when they see no one is replying they will bump it on purpose to get more attention... *"They will be replied to when they're replied to" *means that people discussing the actual topic will eventually comment on it and aren't the target of the rule...

By your logic you shouldn't be making comments in new threads neither as it clearly states *new* topics too...


----------



## Tony_93 (Sep 11, 2017)

natanelho said:


> Its not just the rules, thats part of the forum- people understand that replying to old threads isnt good...



Dat backpedaling tho


----------

