# Valve announces Steam OS, Steam Machines, and Steam Controller



## T-hug (Sep 23, 2013)

*Steam has announced its very own operating system; Steam OS, Steam Machines and Steam Controller:*

*




*​ 
Steam OS:


> As we’ve been working on bringing Steam to the living room, we’ve come to the conclusion that the environment best suited to delivering value to customers is an operating system built around Steam itself. Steam OS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen.It will be available soon as a free stand-alone operating system for living room machines.


 
Steam Machines:


> Entertainment is not a one-size-fits-all world. We want you to be able to choose the hardware that makes sense for you, so we are working with multiple partners to bring a variety of Steam gaming machines to market during 2014, all of them running SteamOS.


 
Steam Controller:


> We realized early on that our goals required a new kind of input technology — one that could bridge the gap from the desk to the living room without compromises. So we spent a year experimenting with new approaches to input and we now believe we've arrived at something worth sharing and testing with you.


 
* Steam OS Source *
* Steam Machines Source *
*Steam Controller*


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## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 23, 2013)

I kind of like it. It says you can stream games from an existing gaming PC to another PC, so this may be nice for those who don't want to have to lug their gaming PC between rooms to play on a big screen. I know I would totally use this with my craptop, so there's a market out there...just not a very big one. Meh, we'll have to see what happens I suppose


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## IBNobody (Sep 23, 2013)

And FAMILY SHARING !!!



> Family Sharing
> In the past, sharing Steam games with your family members was hard. Now you can share the games you love with the people you love. Family Sharing allows you to take turns playing one another’s games while earning your own Steam achievements and saving your individual game progress to the Steam cloud.


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## Ace Overclocked (Sep 23, 2013)

http://store.steampowered.com/sharing <You guys should sign up for the gamesharing beta!


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## Deleted member 473940 (Sep 23, 2013)

Saw that coming. Damn I should be the next sherlock Holmes


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## T-hug (Sep 23, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> Saw that coming. Damn I should be the next sherlock Holmes


Yeah I'm guessing announcement #2 will be the steambox and #3 will be Friday and be Half Life 3 / Left 4 Dead 3 / Portal 3?
The OS is big news, the steambox will be big news, but what could be the biggest news saved for #3?


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## IBNobody (Sep 23, 2013)

Bummer!






There's a Change.org petition against this, too.

https://www.change.org/petitions/va...access-different-games-at-the-same-time#share


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## DinohScene (Sep 23, 2013)

No HL 3?

Also, this will prolly be the next Android.


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## Gahars (Sep 23, 2013)

SteamOS?

More like SteamOP.


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## bowser (Sep 23, 2013)

If they don't announce Half-Life 3 by this weekend, I'm gonna be steamed.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 23, 2013)

so is steam OS built for PC? too bad i cant change windows 8 to this on fy family's desktop ( they'll be pissed)


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## WiiUBricker (Sep 23, 2013)

chrisrlink said:


> so is steam OS built for PC?


SteamOS is linux, so yes, you can install it on a PC.


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## PityOnU (Sep 23, 2013)

While this is neat, I'm not seeing how it's exactly groundbreaking...

Yet another Linux distro? I mean, that's fine, but it doesn't really change too much.

Just install Steam on another Linux distro?


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## EyeZ (Sep 23, 2013)

Not too sure if this will suit my needs, i'll be taking notice of further news but i can't see why i would want to pay out for a Steam box with a Steam OS when what i have now suits me.

Also, this is being targeted  towards living room gaming, which is not what i'm looking for.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Sep 23, 2013)

Thug said:


> Yeah I'm guessing announcement #2 will be the steambox and #3 will be Friday and be Half Life 3 / Left 4 Dead 3 / Portal 3?
> The OS is big news, the steambox will be big news, but what could be the biggest news saved for #3?


 
lol Cant really tell anything else.
But I was a gazillion percent sure that an OS is coming. That would be more convenient for people who dont buy the steambox. I know Windows has steam, but a OS specifically for gaming.. sounds amazing, doesnt it?
Now, I am thinking whether there will be a steambox announcement or not? Lets see.


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## Sakitoshi (Sep 23, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> lol Cant really tell anything else.
> But I was a gazillion percent sure that an OS is coming. That would be more convenient for people who dont buy the steambox. I know Windows has steam, but a OS specifically for gaming.. sounds amazing, doesnt it?
> Now, I am thinking whether there will be a steambox announcement or not? Lets see.


 
if boot as fast as a game console, then that could be my 2nd boot on my laptop.
I was also like 90% sure a dedicated OS was to be expected if they want a console experience for the SteamBox, since not all Steam games have gamepad support they'll have to work on that and you can't use Windows at all just with a gamepad.


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## Ritsuki (Sep 23, 2013)

Interesting. They should make an all entertainment (not only video games, but music and videos too) OS, that would be awesome


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## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 23, 2013)

Ritsuki said:


> Interesting. They should make an all entertainment (not only video games, but music and videos too) OS, that would be awesome


 
They're planning on bringing media services to the SteamOS. 



> Music, TV, Movies
> We’re working with many of the media services you know and love. Soon we will begin bringing them online, allowing you to access your favorite music and video with Steam and SteamOS.


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## Ritsuki (Sep 23, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> They're planning on bringing media services to the SteamOS.


Well, time to build a multimedia PC then  Honestly that's the only reason I needed to build one


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## Tom Bombadildo (Sep 23, 2013)

Ritsuki said:


> Well, time to build a multimedia PC then  Honestly that's the only reason I needed to build one


 
Well if the SteamOS is built on Linux, you could always just install XBMC or something, it's not like the thing will be locked down for gaming only.


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## SifJar (Sep 23, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> While this is neat, I'm not seeing how it's exactly groundbreaking...
> 
> Yet another Linux distro? I mean, that's fine, but it doesn't really change too much.
> 
> Just install Steam on another Linux distro?


 
I'm guessing this is an OS with all the non-essential parts stripped out in favour of performance and speed for gaming.


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2013)

As long as I don't need to even go NEAR DS3tools or anything of that variety, I'm in. 

In other words, SteamOS, PLEASE have PS3 controller support that doesn't suck.


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## cdoty (Sep 23, 2013)

Apex said:


> As long as I don't need to even go NEAR DS3tools or anything of that variety, I'm in.
> 
> In other words, SteamOS, PLEASE have PS3 controller support that doesn't suck.


 

If you're on Windows, the XInput Wrapper for DS3 is easy to install and use:
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-XInput-Wrapper-for-DS3-and-Play-com-USB-Dual-DS2-Controller


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## IBNobody (Sep 23, 2013)

cdoty said:


> If you're on Windows, the XInput Wrapper for DS3 is easy to install and use:
> http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-XInput-Wrapper-for-DS3-and-Play-com-USB-Dual-DS2-Controller


 

It is very easy to use.


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## back25 (Sep 23, 2013)

SifJar said:


> I'm guessing this is an OS with all the non-essential parts stripped out in favour of performance and speed for gaming.


and more importantly, optimized for controllers.


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## Hells Malice (Sep 23, 2013)

...wait, don't most games not work on Linux that steam has?
or am I mistaken


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## SnAQ (Sep 23, 2013)

I'm curious about the streaming, it would be really awesome if it used my gaming computer's power to do all the heavy lifting and just show it on my tv... 

Now, let's hope Half-Life 3 is announced next!


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## Thanatos Telos (Sep 23, 2013)

Thug said:


> Yeah I'm guessing announcement #2 will be the steambox and #3 will be Friday and be Half Life 3 / Left 4 Dead 3 / Portal 3?
> The OS is big news, the steambox will be big news, but what could be the biggest news saved for #3?


 
Why not Team Fortress 3?


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## SnAQ (Sep 23, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> ...wait, don't most games not work on Linux that steam has?
> or am I mistaken


I really don't think that's the case here, they'll make their whole library work when in SteamOS


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## SifJar (Sep 23, 2013)

back25 said:


> and more importantly, optimized for controllers.


 
Well no, that's irrelevant to the post I was responding to; Steam installed on another Linux distro would also support controllers (big picture mode).





Hells Malice said:


> ...wait, don't most games not work on Linux that steam has?
> or am I mistaken


There are a reasonable amount of Steam games available for Linux (including many of Valve's own big name games). See here: http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/

On top of this, Steam OS is capable of _streaming_ games from another PC running Steam (e.g. a Windows PC), so you can have a Windows gaming rig in one room and a cheap(ish) HTPC running Steam OS connected to your TV in another room, streaming the games (and also acting as a media centre, if you like).


SnAQ said:


> I really don't think that's the case here, they'll make their whole library work when in SteamOS


 
Absolutely not, they can't just "make their whole library work". Valve's first party games are, in the large part, available for Linux, but there are a great deal of titles on Steam that are not available for Linux, nor is it within Valve's power to make them available. I guess there's potential for some sort of Wine-derived compatibility layer, but that's not ideal and certainly not 100% compatibility.


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2013)

cdoty and Ibnobody:

I've messed with it before but to no avail, but this time I finally got it to work with my unsupported internal Bluetooth adapter by putting my hardware id into the inf like they recommended for Motioninjoy. FINALLY. Thanks for the tip and getting me to try again, glad it finally works!


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## Sakitoshi (Sep 23, 2013)

SifJar said:


> Absolutely not, they can't just "make their whole library work". Valve's first party games are, in the large part, available for Linux, but there are a great deal of titles on Steam that are not available for Linux, nor is it within Valve's power to make them available. I guess there's potential for some sort of Wine-derived compatibility layer, but that's not ideal and certainly not 100% compatibility.


 
we are are talking about linux, they can bump the compatibility up to 90% if they use WINE or similar software. they already use DOSBox for the old DOS games like DooM and friends.


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## raulpica (Sep 23, 2013)

SifJar said:


> I guess there's potential for some sort of Wine-derived compatibility layer, but that's not ideal and certainly not 100% compatibility.


Damn, I was going to waltz in there and post "lol, they'll be using WINE or something", but looks like you ninja'd my thought.

Anyway, I've heard around that WINE plays most Source-games flawlessly, so I guess that if they team up with the WINE team they could shape it up in a 99% compatibility wrapper in little to no time.


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## PityOnU (Sep 23, 2013)

Well, I guess we'll have to just see what happens, then.

This doesn't really offer any new capabilities beyond what is already out there, but I guess it makes using them much easier - which I guess means more people will take advantage of it? Maybe?

Eh, who knows. I'm apparently so far out of touch with hardcore gamers now that I'm probably missing something.


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## 3bbb7 (Sep 23, 2013)

ive been wanting to switch to linux for a while, but gaming has been keeping me on windows. Will this be a a livingroom gaming os only, or will it be optimized for daily desktop use too?


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## The Real Jdbye (Sep 23, 2013)

>Linux
>gaming


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## PityOnU (Sep 23, 2013)

The Real Jdbye said:


> >Linux
> >gaming


 
What do you think the PS3, Wii, and Wii U OS's are based on?

Clue: It's not Windows.


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## Kouen Hasuki (Sep 23, 2013)

Incoming Catboy comment!

also interesting about the OS I already knew about family sharing (have done a while now)


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## SifJar (Sep 23, 2013)

3bbb7 said:


> ive been wanting to switch to linux for a while, but gaming has been keeping me on windows. Will this be a a livingroom gaming os only, or will it be optimized for daily desktop use too?


 
I think it's designed to be pretty much "gaming only". Although Steam has started selling regular software as well, so maybe that will run on it too. Plus it's Linux underneath, so there'll probably be some way to run Linux programs, even if it's not an "official" way.

But you could dual boot it with another distro/Windows. For that matter you could dual boot Linux and Windows right now, and just reboot to Windows when you want to play games.


PityOnU said:


> What do you think the PS3, Wii, and Wii U OS's are based on?
> 
> Clue: It's not Windows.


Nor is it Linux. PS3's CellOS is "believed" to be a branch of FreeBSD, but the Wii and WiiU certainly aren't based on Linux. I don't know a whole lot about the WiiU, but in terms of the Wii - it doesn't even _have_ an OS, really.


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## TemplarGR (Sep 23, 2013)

Like SifJar said, PS3 uses a derivative from FreeBSD, which is a Unix-like system, like Linux, but no it is not Linux.

There is no real reason why Linux can't run games. Actually, Linux can run games faster than Windows, if both the distro and the game are optimized enough.

Although i believe this will be a bumpy ride, since the Linux's graphical stack has a lot of problems, and developers are reluctant to port to Linux. Although, since Android is a big thing, this is beginning to change...

Let's hope for this to succeed, this will be a BIG WIN for the consumer in the end...


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## PityOnU (Sep 23, 2013)

TemplarGR said:


> Like SifJar said, PS3 uses a derivative from FreeBSD, which is a Unix-like system, like Linux, but no it is not Linux.
> 
> There is no real reason why Linux can't run games. Actually, Linux can run games faster than Windows, if both the distro and the game are optimized enough.
> 
> ...


 
Yup yup


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## The Catboy (Sep 23, 2013)

Linux based you say?


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## Ericthegreat (Sep 23, 2013)

Shocker, good drivers and this may compete with Ubuntu, for me at least.


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## The Catboy (Sep 23, 2013)

Hells Malice said:


> ...wait, don't most games not work on Linux that steam has?
> or am I mistaken


 
They've been porting over games to Linux at a pretty rapid speed and I am pretty sure with this news they are going to start working harder to get more games on Linux.

Honestly I say this is great news for Linux gamers! It's about time someone knocked Windows down a peg!



The Real Jdbye said:


> >Linux
> >gaming



What are you from 2005?


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## The Milkman (Sep 23, 2013)

Eh, new Linux distro with the Steam Logo. If its really good, I'll bite and maybe dual-boot it. Other then that I'm good. This is a good step for Valve in general, they are finally suiting up to purge the gaming market of the console filth, and then they will all see the glory of the PC. We shall finally become the Ubermensch.


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## Satangel (Sep 23, 2013)

Was waiting for the announcement, and it didn't really disappoint. Would have liked to see some hardware though, but perhaps that will come later. 
Looking forward to some more information on this, especially the Youtube vid from TotalBiscuit.


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## Flame (Sep 23, 2013)

man i don't know what the fuck people that Linux is some bad thing thats going to cause world war 3. some People cant see what Linux can be, and how great. its a OS a FULL OS(not a OS that can be used to say hell world) that is not made by some big company so you that wants $$$ of you. Linux code is open to every to used how ever you see it fit and the code can be edit to fit the form you want, and its being improved every day. This OSes potential is limitless.

Valve is one smart company in investing in Linux. if Valve was in the stock market, i would invest.


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## KingBlank (Sep 23, 2013)

Oh gosh, I cant wait to play my games offline with this... In offline mode... Online...


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## Rydian (Sep 23, 2013)

TemplarGR said:


> There is no real reason why Linux can't run games. Actually, Linux can run games faster than Windows, if both the distro and the game are optimized enough.


Yeah, Valve's efforts to port to Linux showed what optimization of an existing product can do.  
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/



TemplarGR said:


> Let's hope for this to succeed, this will be a BIG WIN for the consumer in the end...


One of the biggest draws for a consumer is the number of titles available on a system, after all.



raulpica said:


> Damn, I was going to waltz in there and post "lol, they'll be using WINE or something", but looks like you ninja'd my thought.
> 
> Anyway, I've heard around that WINE plays most Source-games flawlessly, so I guess that if they team up with the WINE team they could shape it up in a 99% compatibility wrapper in little to no time.


Well it's more than likely that if they do go with WINE, it'll be hand-built configs per-game.

EDIT: Shh, I'm tired.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> What do you think the PS3, Wii, and Wii U OS's are based on?
> 
> Clue: It's not Windows.


 
It sure as hell isn't Linux either - the PS3 is running on CellOS which is believed to be based on FreeBSD, an OS on a completely different branch of UNIX-based _(or more appropriately UNIX-like)_ systems. The Wii's OS, which is a cluster of IOS'es _(Input/Output Systems/Internal Operating Systems, as coders call it)_ is a _convoluted mess_ and who the hell knows what's it based on - it's listed as proprietary and looks nothing like any listed OS out there. As far as the WiiU is concerned, I heard nothing but rumours about its origin and no solid evidence but I'm sure as hell willing to wager that it's an upgraded form of what was already seen on the Gamecube and the Wii. Why? Because why would they convolute the feature they strongy advertise - native Backwards Compatibility?


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## BrightNeko (Sep 24, 2013)

I wonder if it will have a launch title :V


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Sep 24, 2013)

Can this run XBMC though?


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## Dork (Sep 24, 2013)

Linux won't take off if developers keep using DirectX, hopefully this SteamOS will encourage developers to move to OpenGL.


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## The Milkman (Sep 24, 2013)

Flame said:


> man i don't know what the fuck people that Linux is some bad thing thats going to cause world war 3. some People cant see what Linux can be, and how great. its a OS a FULL OS(not a OS that can be used to say hell world) that is not made by some big company so you that wants $$$ of you. Linux code is open to every to used how ever you see it fit and the code can be edit to fit the form you want, and its being improved every day. This OSes potential is limitless.


 

Having potential and having support are two different things, and you tend to need both to get anywhere. Especially the mainstream.

Linux might be free and open-source, and highly flexible, but its also painfully difficult to get into. It lacks the support Windows has (which is the main reason everyone uses it to begin with) and while Open-source is cute and all, most open-source software isn't built to deliver depth, its made to get the job done, remain small and simple so the userbase can add what they want. Not to come out of the box usable and optimized, ready for whatever you can throw at it.

Most people would much rather not be bothered, and developers see this.

Think of it this way, food stamps are great and all, it keeps you alive and if your clever you can use them to make some great food for pretty damn cheap and large amounts of it too. But you also know you would much rather have a few hundred bucks extra so you can go out once in a while, or at least buy hot food.


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## Sop (Sep 24, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> Bummer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I find that really stupid, you can't both play the same console game either. So why should Steam be any different?


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## DSGamer64 (Sep 24, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I kind of like it. It says you can stream games from an existing gaming PC to another PC, so this may be nice for those who don't want to have to lug their gaming PC between rooms to play on a big screen. I know I would totally use this with my craptop, so there's a market out there...just not a very big one. Meh, we'll have to see what happens I suppose


 

That would be handy, I could put a little cheap rig together and hook it up to the TV in the basement to play games there and watch hockey without having to stream it


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## Taleweaver (Sep 24, 2013)

Am I the only one who feels kinda "meh" on this announcement?

Ubuntu...mint...Android...iOS...windows...mozilla's upcoming OS...why is it that all major players build their own OS nowadays? And it's pretty hard to say "to escape from the monopoly" when there are plenty of decent free linux distributions out there. And aside from the streaming feature, I don't see what the benefit over steam on linux is to begin with.

I mean...I like valve as a company. They make pretty decent quality titles and I've got a huge steam library as well. But with marketing bullshit like

_"Steam is not a one-way content broadcast channel, it’s a collaborative many-to-many entertainment platform, in which each participant is a multiplier of the experience for everyone else."_

I'm in doubt if people actually know what they're making.


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## Wisenheimer (Sep 24, 2013)

I have never been much into STEAM, but I am kind of intrigued with the ability to turn my Home Theater PC into a console. 

I built it four years ago, so it is hardly state of the art, but with an i7, 4GB of RAM, an entry-level gaming card from the era, and the ability to upgrade the components easily and cheaply, having the ability to turn off Windows and boot directly to a stripped-down OS that allows games direct access to the hardware would essentially turn it into a console with a lot more raw computing potential than a Wii U, Xbox One, or PS4.

All those people who are deriding the Wii U over having older hardware components than its soon to be released competitors should take a hard look at what they are actually spending their money on.  If it is really about hardware, they need to take that $600 and instead of spending it on a PS3, grab a $600 GPU, slap it into their PC.  They will not only have a STEAM console that is much more powerful than anything any of the big three home console makers are releasing, but it is upgradable, can play Windows games, and is already jailbroken, so they can boot to windows or Linux and play their favorite emulators, flash games, surf the internet, blurays, et cetera.


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## Rydian (Sep 24, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> And aside from the streaming feature, I don't see what the benefit over steam on linux is to begin with.


Money, ability to edit the OS, etc.


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## The Milkman (Sep 24, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Money, *ability to edit the OS*, etc.


 
Source?


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## Wisenheimer (Sep 24, 2013)

I should add, this is hardly going to be the death toll for the current big three home consoles.  Unlike PC's, they have the advantage of just working.  However, if STEAM is actually able to deliver, especially by certifying hardware manufacturers as compatible, they will reduce a lot of headaches associated with PC gaming and home theater.  Right now, even with all the nice things that Apple, Microsoft, and others are doing to turn your computer into a home theater entertainment center, the level of technical expertise to get it working well is much greater than an Xbox.  But with something like STEAM's planned OS, it might become much simpler. 

Lets be honest.  For the more technically-savvy among us, the only reason to buy a console these days is for the unique gameplay they offer.  I have owned every Nintendo console going back to the NES I received in preschool.  I will eventually buy the Wii U, not because the Wii U is a great piece of hardware that will do anything other than collect dust for the vast majority of its life, but because it is very likely to be the delivery system for some really great works of video game art.  Believe me, if there were an easy way to play the next Zelda or Metroid game on my PC, I would. 

Seeing as it will be nearly as easy to port a game to the new STEAM OS as the existing consoles, it might force the big three to spend more money backing independent gaming companies to bring some truly unique and exclusive experiences to their consoles.

And as for the Linux connection, the OS is largely irrelevant.  Obviously the point is to strip out as much unnecessary parts as possible, and Linux lends itself to doing that.  It is not unique to Linux though.  Embedded Windows could just as well have served as the Steam OS like it has done for three generations of Xboxes.  However, given the licensing costs, Linux was the obvious choice, because it is free and you can alter any part of the OS you want so long as you release the source code whereas Microsoft would get a licensing fee for every single installation and might put some unwanted restrictions. 

I look forward to this development and will strongly consider giving the company an look when they release the OS.



The Milkman said:


> Source?


 
Well, if it is based on Linux, they will have to release the source code to, at the very least, the OS parts of it which people will be able to edit and recompile.

Most likely they will support some kind of plugin system just like most Microsoft products for those not inclined to release their own "flavor", which would be redundant anyway.


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## Rydian (Sep 24, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Source?


I see what you did there. XD

But I more meant along the lines of swapping the desktop interface and other stuff that's supported and done all the time with Linux, but not done very often and/or not well-supported on Windows.



Wisenheimer said:


> Well, if it is based on Linux, they will have to release the source code to, at the very least, the OS parts of it which people will be able to edit and recompile.


Only for the parts that require it.


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## xBleedingSoulx (Sep 24, 2013)

Seems pretty pointless to me, my gaming PC is already in my living room and is connected to two 32" TV's...


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## Arras (Sep 24, 2013)

xBleedingSoulx said:


> Seems pretty pointless to me, my gaming PC is already in my living room and is connected to two 32" TV's...


But that does not apply to everyone.

I wonder if I can run this on a Raspberry Pi or something and use it exclusively for streaming. That might be neat.


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## grossaffe (Sep 24, 2013)

Shows they're serious about their commitment to Linux as a platform.  Hopefully the trend continues and Windows will no longer be a requisite of a gaming PC.


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## Flame (Sep 24, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Having potential and having support are two different things, and you tend to need both to get anywhere. Especially the mainstream.
> 
> Linux might be free and open-source, and highly flexible, but its also painfully difficult to get into. It lacks the support Windows has (which is the main reason everyone uses it to begin with) and while Open-source is cute and all, most open-source software isn't built to deliver depth, its made to get the job done, remain small and simple so the userbase can add what they want. Not to come out of the box usable and optimized, ready for whatever you can throw at it.
> 
> ...


 
there is long term support for picked Linux version, and if you are on rolling version you get the latest version. companies invest millions and millions into Linux, unlike windows the support is more likely if the team stop supporting the kernel some guy will probably just continue do his own thing. unlike windows once the support is over, its over and no one can continue the work, because its close source .


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## NinSyeiko (Sep 24, 2013)

Wait a moment..

You will be able to download steam digital games using this console, and playing it in your TV?

DONT KIDDING ME, IS F**KING AWESOME!


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## TemplarGR (Sep 24, 2013)

I don't get the hate on Linux. I have been using it as my main desktop OS for at least 10 years no, and as a secondary OS for at least 15...

Sure, it has its problems. Many problems in fact. But so do all Windows versions. Plus, Windows cost money and use anticonsumer practices to force you to upgrade...

People, having a Unified OS that can run on whatever hardware you like(not necessarily x86...), and is free, will be extremely good for gaming.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 24, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Money, ability to edit the OS, etc.


 
Erm...I'm not sure if you read my quote correctly here.  That sure goes for windows, but I said:

_And aside from the streaming feature, I don't see what the benefit over steam *on linux* is to begin with._

I can just install ubuntu or mint on this computer*, use the package manager to install steam on it and game that way. Why should I instead go for steamOS?
It's all nice and dandy that it's "built for gaming"...but aside from some interesting benchmarks when compared to windows**, I have no idea how it stacks up against other linux clients.

Or how the overall interface will look on an operating system that's built for a television screen to begin with... :-\



*the computer I'm currently working on will become my backup pc in a couple of days; I'm building a new one.
**besides...exactly how fair is such a comparison? On windows, I don't dare to disable my firewall or virusscanner. Kind of obvious that linux benchmarks better then.


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## rg (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm not sure if someone mentioned this before but

This will boost the Linux world like nothing has until today, if this OS is linux it means that games that run on Steam will need to be compatible with Linux.

This is going to do some damage!


----------



## WiiUBricker (Sep 24, 2013)

Not sure if this leak is legit but the guy sounds as if he knows what he's talking about.


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## Par39 (Sep 24, 2013)

A bit off-topic here, but am I the only one for whom the picture in the opening post refuses to load fully or even at all? Even on main page it's just trying to load, but it either "stops" in the middle, or just shows up as [ IMG ]


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## back25 (Sep 24, 2013)

SifJar said:


> Well no, that's irrelevant to the post I was responding to; Steam installed on another Linux distro would also support controllers (big picture mode).


 
Does steam OS only open steam or something?


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## SifJar (Sep 24, 2013)

back25 said:


> Does steam OS only open steam or something?


 
Yes, that's sort of the point. It's similar to Chrome OS; a Linux distro stripped down to one program. At least, that's my understanding of it.


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## back25 (Sep 24, 2013)

SifJar said:


> Yes, that's sort of the point. It's similar to Chrome OS; a Linux distro stripped down to one program. At least, that's my understanding of it.


That's kinda disappointing. I'd rather just use other distro.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2013)

WiiUBricker said:


> Not sure if this leak is legit but the guy sounds as if he knows what he's talking about.


 
Both FreeBSD and Linux have their roots in UNIX - once stripped down to the bare minimum of components required for gaming, they'll both use a similar amount of resources... sooo... no, the guy's full of it. As for the _"1440p - you name it, whatever"_ attitude, sure - at what price? Is the required setup going to be cheaper than the PS4? If so, I wonder how much fairy dust it requires.


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## Wisenheimer (Sep 24, 2013)

TemplarGR said:


> I don't get the hate on Linux. I have been using it as my main desktop OS for at least 10 years no, and as a secondary OS for at least 15...
> 
> Sure, it has its problems. Many problems in fact. But so do all Windows versions. Plus, Windows cost money and use anticonsumer practices to force you to upgrade...
> 
> People, having a Unified OS that can run on whatever hardware you like(not necessarily x86...), and is free, will be extremely good for gaming.


 
I do not think anyone hates Linux.  I have used it extensively at school and work.  If you need to set up a cheap computer cluster to run an intensive n-body simulation there is no point in even considering Windows (though it has gotten into the high performance computing market as well).

But when we are talking about an actual everyday desktop OS?  Everyone I know, including the most technically savy individuals boot to OSX or Windows.  Linux has come a long way in the desktop environment but it is still far from a viable replacement for a commercial OS for the vast majority of people.  Something simple on OS X or Windows, like installing a commercial software program, can take hours of Googling. 

Linux's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness.  You can configure the software however you want, even make modifications yourself and compile them.  However, with hundreds of different distributions out there, it is difficult to support because there is little consistency. 

What STEAM looks like it is doing is not making another full distribution.  That would be pointless.  There are already some great Linux distros out there.  What it looks like it is doing is creating a distro that is stripped down, like the embedded version of Windows included in the Xboxes.  That distro will run custom software designed to turn a PC box in your living room into the kind of experience you would get on a PS3 or Xbox.

In fact, the biggest issue I see is that of licenses.  If you buy a PC with Windows Media center installed you already have the licenses for things like DVD and Blu-ray playback.  As far as I know, there is no way to legally play most commercial DVDs and blurays on Linux.  Something as simple as watching a movie you legally bought could conceivably constitute a felony in the United States.  Since I assume that STEAM will want their distro to have the ability to play movies, we might actually see them offer the first Linux-licensed bluray player available for download for $10 or $20.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> I do not think anyone hates Linux.  I have used it extensively at school
> 
> In fact, the biggest issue I see is that of licenses.  If you buy a PC with Windows Media center installed you already have the licenses for things like DVD and Blu-ray playback.  As far as I know, there is no way to legally play most commercial DVDs and blurays on Linux.  Something as simple as watching a movie you legally bought could conceivably constitute a felony in the United States.  Since I assume that STEAM will want their distro to have the ability to play movies, we might actually see them offer the first Linux-licensed bluray player available for download for $10 or $20.


How things have changes, we were usually lumped with the last version of windows in various schools I bothered to attend.

Video stuff is an interesting issue though I do have to mention you run the risk of blurring the lines between software patents (not so much a thing outside the US and Japan), DRM (which does have its issues) and commercial use of standards (sometimes a separate gig to straight software patents). Game companies are already familiar with all three which is why instead of better formats (H264 would beat them all out) you tend to get old MPEG1 (I see it sometimes on Japanese games and mostly having its patents expired I believe), things like RAD-bink ( http://www.radgametools.com/binkgames.htm ), other middleware ( http://www.cri-mw.com/product/lineup/audio/criadx2/index.html ), OGG video or even having the developers make their own video formats or be provided one by the console makers (MS obviously have their WMV stuff, Nintendo purchased the people behind their VX/act imagine format and Sony does not do so badly either).


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## Wisenheimer (Sep 24, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> How things have changes, we were usually lumped with the last version of windows in various schools I bothered to attend.
> 
> Video stuff is an interesting issue though I do have to mention you run the risk of blurring the lines between software patents (not so much a thing outside the US and Japan), DRM (which does have its issues) and commercial use of standards (sometimes a separate gig to straight software patents). Game companies are already familiar with all three which is why instead of better formats (H264 would beat them all out) you tend to get old MPEG1 (I see it sometimes on Japanese games and mostly having its patents expired I believe), things like RAD-bink ( http://www.radgametools.com/binkgames.htm ), other middleware ( http://www.cri-mw.com/product/lineup/audio/criadx2/index.html ), OGG video or even having the developers make their own video formats or be provided one by the console makers (MS obviously have their WMV stuff, Nintendo purchased the people behind their VX/act imagine format and Sony does not do so badly either).


 
Well, to be fair, I do not think most Universities extensively use Linux, but it is widely used in natural and computer science departments. I do not remember any professors or students running around with laptops running Ubuntu, but an awful lot of time was spent logged onto Linux machines and supercomputer clusters, either in the lab or via SSH. Most commercial scientific software runs on Linux and there are a lot of open-source programs that scientists, engineers, and computer scientists have developed that do not have OS X or Windows ports.

The issue is not just software patents.  The companies charge royalties for the standards.  I do not believe it is necessarily illegal, per-se, for you to play back bluray movies you own without paying royalties for the drive (the royalties are due by the person who sells the capability).  The main issue seems to be the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which outlaws breaking the encryption keys used to play back commercial movies. 

We have this odd situation where it is probably legal to enable DVD or Bluray playback on a drive you own, rip the Bluray movie to whatever format you want, but since it requires hacking the encryption keys, you could potentially become a felon.  Since the Justice Department is not interested in prosecuting individual home users and since the media companies are not interested in suing them for breaking encryption, I doubt the unfairness of this has ever been addressed by a court, especially in a criminal case.


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## grossaffe (Sep 24, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> Well, to be fair, I do not think most Universities extensively use Linux, but it is widely used in natural and computer science departments. I do not remember any professors or students running around with laptops running Ubuntu, but an awful lot of time was spent logged onto Linux machines and supercomputer clusters, either in the lab or via SSH. Most commercial scientific software runs on Linux and there are a lot of open-source programs that scientists, engineers, and computer scientists have developed that do not have OS X or Windows ports.


 
I don't know what program you are/were in, but I see a lot of Linux users in the Electrical and Computer Engineering department (as well as the linux servers we can ssh into).  We also had computer labs with machines that dual-booted Windows and Fedora (Ubuntu was still fairly young and not as stable as it is today).


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## The Milkman (Sep 24, 2013)

Rydian said:


> I see what you did there. XD
> 
> But I more meant along the lines of swapping the desktop interface and other stuff that's supported and done all the time with Linux, but not done very often and/or not well-supported on Windows.


 

Oh wow. That was entirely unintentional. 

Fraid I still don't understand though, do you mean aspects of the GUI that you can normally change on Linux distros? Like for instance, Valve being able to make a Start button type thing that pulls up your game library instead? Or am I entirely missing your point?



Flame said:


> there is long term support for picked Linux version, and if you are on rolling version you get the latest version. companies invest millions and millions into Linux, unlike windows the support is more likely if the team stop supporting the kernel some guy will probably just continue do his own thing. unlike windows once the support is over, its over and no one can continue the work, because its close source .


 

Well, isn't that sort of like saying "Once Apple stops making iPods, Walkmans will sell like crazy!" (or at least its like saying it if we were all in the late 90s >_>) 

Its not like if iPods stopped selling it WOULDN'T happen, its just far from likely. Plus, if Linux development halted, it would be worse then in the case with Windows. The biggest problem with Open-Source (like I said before) is that it often depends on the userbase. Linux is already crazy with massive amounts of Shells and Distros. Imagine if you also had three or four Linux kernals to pick from too!

At the very least, if M$ goes broke and can't support Windows, other software developers will jump on and try to buy the source themselves and continue support. Windows brand is more powerful and well known then Microsoft itself!


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## Rydian (Sep 24, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> Erm...I'm not sure if you read my quote correctly here.  That sure goes for windows, but I said:
> 
> _And aside from the streaming feature, I don't see what the benefit over steam *on linux* is to begin with._
> 
> ...


Oh, well, I didn't get that at all since you asked about it on Linux, so I assumed that you meant Linux versus non-Linux.

Anyways it'll probably have some interface that's easily dealt with on the relatively large-size and low-resolution of TVs.  Most people that 



Taleweaver said:


> **besides...exactly how fair is such a comparison? On windows, I don't dare to disable my firewall or virusscanner. Kind of obvious that linux benchmarks better then.


Those aren't going to impact gaming unless a HDD scan is happening while you game, and most AVs are courteous enough to not do that anymore, especially since it's very obvious that disk I/O is the slowest part of any modern machine nowadays.



The Milkman said:


> Oh wow. That was entirely unintentional.
> 
> Fraid I still don't understand though, do you mean aspects of the GUI that you can normally change on Linux distros? Like for instance, Valve being able to make a Start button type thing that pulls up your game library instead? Or am I entirely missing your point?


Yeah, but it might be more limiting, think ChromeOS or the PS3's OS, or Android.  Linux distros generally have KDE, Gnome, XFCE, Blackbox/fluxbox, and more.  Therese desktop environments can have radical differences and change the way you interact with the system, something you can't really do on Windows (just launch a fullscreen program and try your best to stop it from being minimized).


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## Skelletonike (Sep 24, 2013)

I'll be sticking with my Windows 8 (gaming desktop) and Windows 7 (work laptop). I love my microsoft OS's and I'm not changing anytime soon.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 24, 2013)

god i hate linux compiling programs is NOT my fave thing to do


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## Wisenheimer (Sep 25, 2013)

chrisrlink said:


> god i hate linux compiling programs is NOT my fave thing to do


 
I have a Samsung Galaxy S4.  It runs Linux (Android OS) and I have never had to compile a program to get it to work.  Apple computers running OS X use an operating system is called Darwin.  It is based on a version of UNIX called Open BSD which is very similar to Linux. 

If you look at the primary tasks people use their computers for these days, user-friendly versions of Linux such as Ubuntu can do 95% of things fairly well.  It is that other 5% of things that prevent it from being a serious contender for desktops. 

But if you look at the kind of PCs people have these days, tablets and smartphones are starting to dominate.  Tablets use many different operating systems, such as Windows, Windows RT, iOS, et cetera.  One of the most popular tablet operating systems is a version of Linux called Android, which does a pretty good job of replacing a desktop computer for most people. 

You probably use Linux and do not even know it.  Almost everything these days contains a computer, from cash registers to cars.  Many of those run either Linux or embedded/CE Windows.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2013)

Wisenheimer said:


> I have a Samsung Galaxy S4. It runs Linux (Android OS) and I have never had to compile a program to get it to work.


Maybe because it's been covered with so many overlays that it's barely recognizable at this point and only really runs the kernel... somewhere deep, deep down. 


> Apple computers running OS X use an operating system is called Darwin. It is based on a version of UNIX called Open BSD which is very similar to Linux.


BSD and Linux have one thing on common - they're UNIX-like. That's it. OS X is a case similar to Android OS - there are so many overlays on top of the basic kernel that you don't really notice that it's UNIX.


> If you look at the primary tasks people use their computers for these days, user-friendly versions of Linux such as Ubuntu can do 95% of things fairly well. It is that other 5% of things that prevent it from being a serious contender for desktops.


Linux still isn't all that great for your everyday PC user though - you do have to compile things every now and then, updates are hardly an automated process as it is with Windows or OS X, and you do have to use the Command Prompt every now and then - none of these things are welcome by modern users.


> But if you look at the kind of PCs people have these days, tablets and smartphones are starting to dominate. Tablets use many different operating systems, such as Windows, Windows RT, iOS, et cetera. One of the most popular tablet operating systems is a version of Linux called Android, which does a pretty good job of replacing a desktop computer for most people.


Tablets and smartphones never really replaced desktops - they are portable companions to a full-blown PC.


> You probably use Linux and do not even know it. Almost everything these days contains a computer, from cash registers to cars. Many of those run either Linux or embedded/CE Windows.


That is true. Thing is, how often do you update a cash register's kernel? A cash register is designed to perform one particular function and if it does it well on the basic firmware, you never really build on top of that. PC's on the other hand are expandable in terms of features by proxy - you install and uninstall programs from them very often and when these operations are a pain, we have a problem... also your metaphorical register must be pretty damn fancy if it runs Linux - I would've expected some very basic program on a chip with no OS whatsoever... maybe you mean a POS station?


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## whinis (Sep 25, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Maybe because it's been covered with so many overlays that it's barely recognizable at this point and only really runs the kernel... somewhere deep, deep down.


You could say the same of Mint or Ubuntu, or even windows (look at the structure some time). However android is using a functional component of linux and has proven that one can in fact have automated updates, something you complain about later


Foxi4 said:


> BSD and Linux have one thing on common - they're UNIX-like. That's it. OS X is a case similar to Android OS - there are so many overlays on top of the basic kernel that you don't really notice that it's UNIX.


Actually they tend to have a lot more than that in common, surprisingly many of the api's are nearly the same and as far as graphics, they both use opengl. Also many of the file structures are similar, the many difference is down in the kernel where most users (even super users) won't care or delve much anyways. There is a reason many programs can quite easily and quickly be cross compiled for both


Foxi4 said:


> Linux still isn't all that great for your everyday PC user though - you do have to compile things every now and then, updates are hardly an automated process as it is with Windows or OS X, and you do have to use the Command Prompt every now and then - none of these things are welcome by modern users.


Command prompt or consoles are not necessary in linux for the average user any more than they are necessary in windows by the average user. What would end up happening is that if it ends up breaking to the point its needed one would take it to a repair shop just as they do with windows machines. For everything else one would be running mint or ubuntu where everything is in a package file or in the manager, no more difficult than downloading a EXE installer. Both of which have automated update processes that allow one to update to the latest version without much headache.


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## Rydian (Sep 25, 2013)

whinis said:


> Command prompt or consoles are not necessary in linux for the average user any more than they are necessary in windows by the average user.


Just wo years ago, in Ubuntu, I still needed the command prompt to chmod files in order to run an .exe that I downloaded via browser through WINE.

So uh.  You're pushing pretty hard...


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## whinis (Sep 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Just wo years ago, in Ubuntu, I still needed the command prompt to chmod files in order to run an .exe that I downloaded via browser through WINE.
> 
> So uh. You're pushing pretty hard...


We wouldn't be "average" users though, the average user would find a program like playonlinux and just press the play button


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## grossaffe (Sep 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Just wo years ago, in Ubuntu, I still needed the command prompt to chmod files in order to run an .exe that I downloaded via browser through WINE.
> 
> So uh. You're pushing pretty hard...


You should be able to right-click a file, go to properties, and set it as executable.


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## TemplarGR (Sep 25, 2013)

It is true that most Linux distros are not user-friendly. But this can change. See for example Android. Although not a Linux distro technically, but more of a Linux-kernel-based OS, Android is really user-friendly.

I am sure SteamOS will be "idiot-proof(tm)"...


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## Rydian (Sep 25, 2013)

whinis said:


> We wouldn't be "average" users though, the average user would find a program like playonlinux and just press the play button


http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/package_logs?page=2&type=ppas&vals=50
Reports that that wasn't available until 08-20 2011.

I mentioned the timeframe I did for a reason because it was about that time that a lot of Linux groups finally realized that "user-friendly" didn't just mean "Linux user-friendly" and they had to step up their game.



grossaffe said:


> You should be able to right-click a file, go to properties, and set it as executable.


Now, yes.  Then, no.  Even in Ubuntu, you still needed to use the command prompt and chmod executables to even run them through Wine just two years ago (as things downloaded via the browser were not marked as executable and while the "file properties" of the DE would give you the info, they would not change it).

It's a pretty big testament to how _slowly_ Linux becomes user-friendly, which is part of why the popular distro seems to shift around every few years (and major things built off of Linux include tons of customizations).  It's a whole 'nother discussion on why things work like that though.

At least WINE was already considered 1.0 by that time and the only issues I had with it were games with DRM (which WINE has issues with because it does user-mode translations and not kernel-mode, and while _technically_ the blame for games not running is often that reason, I'd rather _morally_ and _logically_ say it's the publishers unnecessarily including DRM in the first place).


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## grossaffe (Sep 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Now, yes. Then, no. Even in Ubuntu, you still needed to use the command prompt and chmod executables to even run them through Wine just two years ago (as things downloaded via the browser were not marked as executable and while the "file properties" of the DE would give you the info, they would not change it).
> 
> It's a pretty big testament to how _slowly_ Linux becomes user-friendly, which is part of why the popular distro seems to shift around every few years (and major things built off of Linux include tons of customizations). It's a whole 'nother discussion on why things work like that though.


 
I don't think progress has really been all that slow.  I've been running variants of Ubuntu since around 2007, which I guess is about three years after initial release, and it's made some huge leaps in that time-frame.  Mounting different partitions with proper permissions is easy, mounting USB drives, setting files as executable, multi-booting, flash videos... compared to when I was using Ubuntu for the first time, Ubuntu variants have become much easier for new users to assimilate to.


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## Rydian (Sep 25, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> I don't think progress has really been all that slow.  I've been running variants of Ubuntu since around 2007, which I guess is about three years after initial release, and it's made some huge leaps in that time-frame.  Mounting different partitions with proper permissions is easy, mounting USB drives, setting files as executable, multi-booting, flash videos... compared to when I was using Ubuntu for the first time, Ubuntu variants have become much easier for new users to assimilate to.


I'm not talking which flavor is going to get the "most improved" reward if they also got the worst user-friendly rating when the class started.   It's about absolutes here, not relative, and it even took major distros like Ubuntu far too many years to become user-friendly enough for common use.


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## Mythrix (Sep 25, 2013)

Streaming your games does sound cool! I tried to just pull a long HDMI cable from my PC to my living room TV (my apartment is not that big), but for some reason it stopped working after some nVidia update, and I basically gave up on it...

Family sharing is interesting but the fact that you can't even play *different* games at the same time makes it not really all that user friendly...


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## Sakitoshi (Sep 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Yeah, but it might be more limiting, think ChromeOS or the PS3's OS, or Android. Linux distros generally have KDE, Gnome, XFCE, Blackbox/fluxbox, and more. Therese desktop environments can have radical differences and change the way you interact with the system, something you can't really do on Windows (just launch a fullscreen program and try your best to stop it from being minimized).


 
you are a little wrong there.
on Windows you can change the shell to have a different desktop environment, back in the day of Windows 9x you could change the shell to the good'ol Program Manager.
I used to install Aston XP(XP like appearance and more without the need of install Windows XP when sucked and nothing was compatible) and men, what a change, wasn't that radical like compare Blackbox with a more traditional desktop like Gnome but the change was enough to make any tech-savvy wonder about what OS were you running. there are other shells out there but that is the only one I remember now and I don't really know if you can change the shell on Vista/7/8.

on-topic I can only hope this bring good driver support for graphic cards, some games doesn't run that well on Linux because drivers aren't optimized enough like Windows drivers.
and if this make Linux people put their shit together about install software(their are doing well with Ubuntu market but still there are complications) then Linux would be a hit like Android(lol since Android is Linux for cellphones) and make normal users shift from Windows.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 25, 2013)

Re Linux in schools. Oh if we are including tertiary education then that changes things somewhat.



Sakitoshi said:


> lol since Android is Linux for cellphones



To quote an article I once read



> android is linux somewhere under all that java



I think it is pretty apt.


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## SifJar (Sep 25, 2013)

chrisrlink said:


> i hate linux compiling programs is NOT my fave thing to do


I doubt Steam OS is going to require much compilation on the user's part. It's using Linux as a base, sure, but it's not going to be a "standard" Linux distro. The stuff you *need* to play games will either come with the OS or get installed from pre-compiled packages on Steam's servers. (The same way Steam on Windows will download and install any required run times etc. for any new game you install).

A number of posts above have mentioned how Android is Linux based, which was responded to with "yeah under all the overlays/java"; I'd say Steam OS is likely to be the same. It will be Linux at it's core, but to the end user, it'll just be Steam. In much the same way as Chrome OS does not require terminal access for a standard user (who is essentially wishing to just use the Chrome browser, which is what the OS is designed to do & which works perfectly without touching a terminal), despite being based on Linux, nor will Steam OS (or rather, " nor should"; obviously I haven't used Steam OS).


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## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2013)

SifJar said:


> I doubt Steam OS is going to require much compilation on the user's part. It's using Linux as a base, sure, but it's not going to be a "standard" Linux distro. The stuff you *need* to play games will either come with the OS or get installed from pre-compiled packages on Steam's servers. (The same way Steam on Windows will download and install any required run times etc. for any new game you install).
> 
> A number of posts above have mentioned how Android is Linux based, which was responded to with "yeah under all the overlays/java"; I'd say Steam OS is likely to be the same. It will be Linux at it's core, but to the end user, it'll just be Steam. In much the same way as Chrome OS does not require terminal access for a standard user (who is essentially wishing to just use the Chrome browser, which is what the OS is designed to do & which works perfectly without touching a terminal), despite being based on Linux, nor will Steam OS (or rather, " nor should"; obviously I haven't used Steam OS).


 
This is all very true, but there's only one question - will it easily dual boot with the user's current Windows/other OS installation or will it require him/her to stand on their heads and setup GRUB? Because if it's the latter, I sincerely doubt people will gladly forget about all the functionality offered by their predominantly Windows-based desktops just for a Steam-oriented OS and I do believe the vast majority of users isn't adept enough to create such a setup. If that part is automated, sure, makes sense - if not, it probably won't be a popular choice, especially since Windows-based Steam works just fine as it is.


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## Sakitoshi (Sep 25, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> > android is linux somewhere under all that java
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is pretty apt.


so it was truth after all. I know that Android runs apps on individual virtual machines and all that but I was reluctant to believe that the apps were java. I guess that's why Android run sluggish even with a quad-core processor and lots of RAM when the iPhone 4s has a moderate dual-core processor and 512mb RAM and still runs very smooth.
virtual machines and java are resource hogs(or at least RAM eaters) even after all the optimizations made over the years.


I just hope SteamOS doesn't use any sort of virtual machine or java implementation if they plan on make their own compatibility layer for Windows only games, that just drop the performance IMHO.


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## SifJar (Sep 25, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> This is all very true, but there's only one question - will it easily dual boot with the user's current Windows/other OS installation or will it require him/her to stand on their heads and setup GRUB? Because if it's the latter, I sincerely doubt people will gladly forget about all the functionality offered by their predominantly Windows-based desktops just for a Steam-oriented OS and I do believe the vast majority of users isn't adept enough to create such a setup. If that part is automated, sure, makes sense - if not, it probably won't be a popular choice, especially since Windows-based Steam works just fine as it is.


 
Well, it seems like there are two main use cases for Steam OS to me. The first is an HTPC-type device, connected to a TV in a living room. In this case, the machine is probably specifically built/purchased for Steam OS, and booting it exclusively. In this case, the device may ship with the OS pre-installed (if bought pre-built), or if being built by the user, they'll have the know-how to install it themselves.

The second case is on a regular desktop PC (or I guess, gaming laptop). In this case, I would imagine Steam will release some sort of Windows-based installer to automate the setup of a dual boot (something akin to "WUBI" for Ubuntu, if you're familiar with it). I certainly would in their position, and it stands to reason that they will too. It's in their best interests to make it as easy and straight-forward as possible for people to get the OS up and running.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2013)

SifJar said:


> Well, it seems like there are two main use cases for Steam OS to me. The first is an HTPC-type device, connected to a TV in a living room. In this case, the machine is probably specifically built/purchased for Steam OS, and booting it exclusively. In this case, the device may ship with the OS pre-installed (if bought pre-built), or if being built by the user, they'll have the know-how to install it themselves.
> 
> The second case is on a regular desktop PC (or I guess, gaming laptop). In this case, I would imagine Steam will release some sort of Windows-based installer to automate the setup of a dual boot (something akin to "WUBI" for Ubuntu, if you're familiar with it). I certainly would in their position, and it stands to reason that they will too. It's in their best interests to make it as easy and straight-forward as possible for people to get the OS up and running.


 
If they indeed bundle it with such a dual-boot solution then it has fair chances of success and they should make it a priority to make such an installer and design it in a user friendly way - they can't expect the average gamer to be adept in setting such a dual-boot setup up - I share your opinion in that regard.


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## Arras (Sep 25, 2013)

Quoting myself from the other thread before the announcement:


Arras said:


> Just look at that icon in the image for the second announcement. The first announcement, SteamOS, was an O. This one is [O] => SteamOS in a box => Steambox. This makes me think the last one might be connectivity/multiplayer/community related.


I was right about this, now let's see about the third one.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 25, 2013)

Steam OS + virtual machine now they are getting reasonable passthrough and talk to graphics card abilities + rdp/VNC now they are gaining similar options = I have no idea but it could possibly see me interested.


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## Rydian (Sep 25, 2013)

Sakitoshi said:


> you are a little wrong there.
> on Windows you can change the shell to have a different desktop environment, back in the day of Windows 9x you could change the shell to the good'ol Program Manager.
> I used to install Aston XP(XP like appearance and more without the need of install Windows XP when sucked and nothing was compatible) and men, what a change, wasn't that radical like compare Blackbox with a more traditional desktop like Gnome but the change was enough to make any tech-savvy wonder about what OS were you running. there are other shells out there but that is the only one I remember now and I don't really know if you can change the shell on Vista/7/8.


But that doesn't do anything to limit the user or change how the system works, it's just using a different program for file management.  Hell, you can even use SHIFT+F10 during the XP install to bring up a command prompt and run the task manager and mspaint and stuff while XP's in the "graphical installation" state, if that says anything to how much Windows is locked into it's way of doing things.


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## 3bbb7 (Sep 25, 2013)

guess it's not only streaming 




> What games will be available during the beta?
> The nearly 3,000 games on Steam. Hundreds already running natively on the SteamOS, with more to come. The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming.


 


from: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/


----------



## grossaffe (Sep 25, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> This is all very true, but there's only one question - will it easily dual boot with the user's current Windows/other OS installation or will it require him/her to stand on their heads and setup GRUB? Because if it's the latter, I sincerely doubt people will gladly forget about all the functionality offered by their predominantly Windows-based desktops just for a Steam-oriented OS and I do believe the vast majority of users isn't adept enough to create such a setup. If that part is automated, sure, makes sense - if not, it probably won't be a popular choice, especially since Windows-based Steam works just fine as it is.


 
When's the last time you used GRUB?  It used to give me headaches when I first started linux, but it's become super automated these days and should be able to find your other OSes on it's own.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 25, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> When's the last time you used GRUB? It used to give me headaches when I first started linux, but it's become super automated these days and should be able to find your other OSes on it's own.


 
It's been quite a while - back when ChromeOS first launched and I wanted to set it up alongside Windows for when I only want to browse for the sake of extended battery life... but decided against it after having a look at how ridiculously long the process was.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Sep 25, 2013)

steam machines


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## Satangel (Sep 25, 2013)

God show some hardware or images already! The things they are announcing aren't news to me, already knew the big picture (  ) of these, all I want now are specs, prices and design!

Although they have announced it'll come soon, that's something at least


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## raulpica (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm in the beta, ooohhh yeah. I'm sure I won't be winning one, but it's fun to participate


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## stanleyopar2000 (Sep 25, 2013)

licensing out the technology to 3rd party manufactures?...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_3DO_Company

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin


but with Steam and Valve I don't see where this could go wrong


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## Mythrix (Sep 26, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> steam machines


 
SteamOS must be the perfect OS for this casemod.


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## ut2k4master (Sep 26, 2013)

raulpica said:


> I'm in the beta, ooohhh yeah. I'm sure I won't be winning one, but it's fun to participate


 
then you aren't in the beta, but only a candidate for the beta


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## raulpica (Sep 26, 2013)

ut2k4master said:


> then you aren't in the beta, but only a candidate for the beta


...true


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## Devin (Sep 27, 2013)

New controller. Vita, Wii U, and Ouya controller baby hybrid.


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## YayMii (Sep 27, 2013)

Ooh, I think this is the first controller to use motor-free 'rumble' technology. I've seen demos of this kind of tech before (which allowed tactile feedback on touchscreens to more closely resemble the feel physical buttons, for example), so I'm looking forward to giving this controller a try.


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## SnAQ (Sep 27, 2013)

FUITA VALVE!

(fuck you in the ahole)

Who the hell gives a shit about a fucking controller?!?!?!?!?

Im really pissed right now (and drunk), i wanted a Half-Life 3 not a damned fucking controller!!!!


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## Gahars (Sep 27, 2013)

SnAQ said:


> FUITA VALVE!
> 
> (fuck you in the ahole)
> 
> ...


 


			
				Valve said:
			
		

> Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon *on the topic of input.*


 
So unless you were expecting Valve to give you HL3 up the pooper...


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## T-hug (Sep 27, 2013)

That controller is pretty interesting to say the least!
I'm unsure about it but if it's a viable replacement for KBM I may actually start trying out more PC games.


Spoiler: Click for Steam Control Pad


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## Ethevion (Sep 27, 2013)

I've always preferred controllers over keyboard and mouse, but I've always loved how much you can do with a keyboard and mouse. This controller is definitely interesting, hopefully it works as well as they make it seem. It's not very pretty though.


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## Satangel (Sep 27, 2013)

They said in their FAQ you can basically buy this controller for your regular Steam use too, so it's not bound to a specific console like device. 
And that's very interesting to me, and for all PC gamers I think, looking forward to trying it.
I already have 2 360 controllers though, to use on my PC, but this is of course something different with a different aim.


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## YayMii (Sep 27, 2013)

They did show a screenshot of Civ5 on the reveal page, so I think this is a controller designed to provide better use for games that don't work well with a traditional controller.


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## Vipera (Sep 27, 2013)

////


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## FAST6191 (Sep 27, 2013)

Vipera said:


> If I wasn't clear enough, let me rephrase this whole post: my keyboard is QWERTY, but then someone invented the DVORAK keyboard layout. It's much better than QWERTY, but I'm not going to use it because asking me to change keyboard layout is like asking, from now on, to walk around using only my toes.



But there are many that question how useful DVORAK is, even among those that learned to use it, and walking using only your toes is actually a training technique for various martial arts, dances and similar such things.

As for the controller I am curious to have a go as Valve seem to have been recruiting some interesting people over the last few years and I imagine this is part of what they came up with.


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## Vipera (Sep 27, 2013)

////


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## Wisenheimer (Sep 27, 2013)

I like the idea of being able to reboot my home theater PC into "console" mode, which will basically make it a more powerful version of a Wii U, XBone, or PS4, with a stripped down OS designed to act just like current consoles and maximize game performance, then boot back into windows to watch movies, stream music, and play emulators or PC games.


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## Arras (Sep 27, 2013)

The controller looks somewhat interesting. I probably wouldn't get one except if it's very cheap since I already have a wireless 360 controller though.


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## Veho (Sep 27, 2013)

I for one welcome out hapticky controller overlord.    



stanleyopar2000 said:


> licensing out the technology to 3rd party manufactures?...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_3DO_Company
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)


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## Qtis (Sep 27, 2013)

Not sure about the usability until I try it, but it looks interesting. Something that hasn't been done before (?). Thumbs up for Valve!


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## Mario92 (Sep 27, 2013)

Satangel said:


> They said in their FAQ you can basically buy this controller for your regular Steam use too, so it's not bound to a specific console like device.
> ...


 
Joys of PC gaming: being able to choose how to play 



Qtis said:


> Not sure about the usability until I try it, but it looks interesting. Something that hasn't been done before (?). Thumbs up for Valve!


 
This is the problem as of now. I guess nobody knows how the hell that thingy works outside valve and I see people comparing it to some f**king on-screen touchpads on mobile. It also scares people as now we have standart buttons which has been good since gamecube and ps2 then getting thing with buttons all places they weren't with big round shapes instead of sticks. 
I'm sure everyone had that "ugh" moment when they saw that but then realising it's customizable and by Valve and getting really confused. Definitly interesting times ahead and I'm already liking it.


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## Gabbynaruto (Sep 27, 2013)

Is it just me, or do people like this just because it's made by Valve?

Personally, I think the design is awful. For one, I don't understand what's the big idea with placing the ABXY buttons where they are. I still try to imagine myself controlling with the left thumb and trying to reach the X/Y button with the other thumb, and the simulations in my head aren't that pleasant. Now, I'm not sure how big it will be, bu personally, I have issues trying to reach the select button on a Dualshock with my right thumb, and the XY buttons on that gamepad look way closer to the former D-pad than the select button is on a DualShock.

And then comes the touch pad into the equation. Bringing back the former problem, with my thumbs being too short, I can imagine myself hitting a button on the touch pad more often than I actually desire, since I imagine it will be continuously responsive while in-game.

And finally, the holes that are supposed to replace the joysticks. I really like the idea of having far better accuracy while using a gamepad, since the lack of near perfect accuracy is what made me hate gamepads in the past, but, do those things really have to be that big and look that awful? Why can't we have the old dualshock design with the joysticks replaced by those things? That would look better and it wouldn't require people to get used to this new form of control after playing with a dualshock/x360 controller for decades. (I know they are patented, but still, they could have come up with a similar design to those two without breaking the law).

Also, are they really having the L2/R2 buttons under the gamepad? What's up with that? (I understand the position is a bit more accessible, but I'll still instinctively hold two fingers on the L1/R1 buttons for a while.)

Now, don't get me wrong here, this is just my first impression based off those three pics I saw on IGN. And, as always, first impressions can be deceiving. Maybe, in the future, I'll be using that without a problem, but for now, I say Valve sucks at designing gamepads. Great ideas, but, to me, currently, they are really awfully put into practice. Let's see if the future proves me wrong.


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## LightyKD (Sep 27, 2013)

Mario92 said:


> Joys of PC gaming: being able to choose how to play
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Since GameCube/PS2??? How young are you? You do know that the standard Controller setup started back with SNES right? Back on topic, I'm willing to give this controller a shot but man does it look....different. Hopefully it"s good different.


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## The Milkman (Sep 27, 2013)

I love it. I want one already.

Because it actually seems like a good idea, not because I love Valve.


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## del_delly (Sep 28, 2013)

I already know this is wrong, because each circle of the analog can be clicked. The image only accounts for Middle one working.
So there is 3 entire layers our clickable buttons, so you might be able to use the outer outer circle for a 8 directional dpad, for extra buttons. Not that its needed. Looks very good at second look.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 28, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> Since GameCube/PS2??? How young are you? You do know that the standard Controller setup started back with SNES right?


 
This statement is very arguable to say the least. What do you mean by the _"standard controller setup"?_ The horizontal orientation? That's from the NES. Shoulder buttons? In a lot of ways, you could classify Atari 7800 side buttons as shoulder buttons, but fair play, the traditional ones we know now were on the SNES. Do you mean the curved shape? That's all Genesis. Do you mean the grips? That's PlayStation's idea.

What I'm saying here is that the contemporary controllers are not just made from one blueprint - they're a collection of what _"worked out"_ in previous generations, which solutions turned out to be beneficial and which ones made the controllers inconvenient. This is why we're not seeing three-pronged N64 controllers with a single analog stick, the standard now is PlayStation's dual analog with two grips despite the fact that N64's analog nub came out earlier.


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## nando (Sep 28, 2013)

the controller sounds pretty awesome. the only downside i see so far would be remembering configurations.


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## gokujr1000 (Sep 28, 2013)

I need to stop expecting Valve to announce games otherwise they might announce the Steam Keyboard next.


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## Ubuntuの刀 (Sep 28, 2013)

DUUUUDE OMG AODBHFOSDRBOWERBOWEROWER THE BEST THING INVENTEDDDDD!

SDNGFOBNSIONTION4O ETHIE 4TH 4OHTT IM CRYING TEARS OF JOY WHILE SLAMMING MY PENIS ON MY KEYBOARD HYSTERICALLY CUZ THIS THREAD MADE ME HARD FOR GAMING SEORBWEOBROWEBOF GTORNE ONSO GHAREOH GRSAODH GAHORARY


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## Drenn (Sep 28, 2013)

Vipera said:


> I dislike the controller because it's too different.
> 
> When the iPhone started the touch-only buttons trend, everyone was bashing at iOS because we need buttons, period. And we need a D-Pad to walk around, or an analog stick, and maybe some pressure-sensitive buttons like the Game Cube controller had, but that's it. That's the way I think.
> Now we have a new design for something that doesn't really need to change, and a part of the internet is bashing the other saying that we should be grateful for Steam to come up with new ideas. I would agree if we were talking about something that wasn't attacking the basics of something that works. I DON'T MIND it, but there is no way that I'm considering this a revolution. That's like saying that the Wiimote changed the gaming technology forever.
> ...


 
The problem is, conventional controllers don't really work for a lot of PC games. Their goal is to make all steam games, which have been _designed_ to be played with a keyboard and mouse, playable with a controller. The real problem is the mouse... so they made their own controller with a mouse-like thing. We'll see if it works.
I don't think the dvorak analogy is relevant. It takes weeks, at least, to relearn how to type. But you can pick up a good controller and be competent with it in a short time.
- Typed on a dvorak keyboard.


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## The Catboy (Sep 28, 2013)

So I've liked pretty much everything they've shown/said thus far, then I saw the controller. What the actual fuck were they thinking? That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen! How do you hold that? How does it work? Why did they think that was a good idea? Everything about that controller hurts my brain! I really hope they either change it before release or pull a Nintendo and throw out a "Pro" controller with a more conventional look to it.


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## Gahars (Sep 28, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> How do hold that?


 
With your hands. On the grips. The obvious grips meant for hands.



The Catboy said:


> How does it work?


 
It's almost as if they didn't devote entire paragraphs detailing its functionality and potential for user modifications. And they definitely didn't offer any examples of how users can map PC controls to the device.



The Catboy said:


> Why did they think that was a good idea?


 


			
				The Horse's Mouth said:
			
		

> Whole genres of games that were previously only playable with a keyboard and mouse are now accessible from the sofa. RTS games. Casual, cursor-driven games. Strategy games. 4x space exploration games. A huge variety of indie games. Simulation titles. And of course, Euro Truck Simulator 2.


 


The Catboy said:


> Everything about that controller hurts my brain! I really hope they either change it before release or pull a Nintendo and throw out a "Pro" controller with a more conventional look to it.


 
If you're going to try to reinvent the wheel, this actually looks like a good attempt. Designing a controller entirely based around PC gaming and offering as much versatility as possible while keeping the modern form? That's pretty neato.

When it comes to fiddling around with the controller design, Valve's making the smart choices. We'll have to wait and see if it pans out, but come on. Really, this isn't that much of a mindbender.


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## The Catboy (Sep 28, 2013)

Gahars said:


> With your hands. On the grips. The obvious grips meant for hands.
> It's almost as if they didn't devote entire paragraphs detailing its functionality and potential for user modifications.And they definitely didn't offer any examples of how users can map PC controls to the device.


 
I've read and looked at everything for it before hand, it doesn't stop it from looking stupid in my opinion. Maybe you like it, but personally I don't like the looks of it.

It just doesn't look like a comfortable controller to me, maybe I could be wrong and when I do use it I will change my mind, but for now it looks dumb to me.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Sep 28, 2013)

I would love to know how Valve's controller holds up against conventional thumb stick controllers.

It doesn't hurt for the controller to have a good design too


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## 2ndApex (Sep 28, 2013)

I'm going to have nightmares about fighting games on this thing.


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## jacksprat1990 (Sep 28, 2013)

That controller is dogsh*t.


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## Mythrix (Sep 28, 2013)

The problem with the current generation of game controllers is that it's not really possible to use both the dual analog sticks and the ABXY buttons at the same time. That is quite likely why Steam wanted to try a new design with this controller, adding additional back buttons and putting the ABXY buttons closer to the trackpads. When looking at the Portal 2 example bindings, it seems like they intend for the L/R buttons to be used for "actions" (like jumps and attacks) while the ABXY buttons and the touch screen is intended for more "menuey" things.

I'm also very curious about the trackpads. According to that product page, they are supposed to have a more advanced form of haptic feedback to make it more useful/userfriendly compared to for example touch screens on smartphones with simple haptic feedback.

Both of the mentioned changes to the controller are major changes compared to traditional controllers, which may or may not work as well as Steam intends. But I do believe that unlike Microsoft and Sony, Steam really is a company driven by people who truly are interested in games. And I'm sure that before they decided to show the controller to the world, they have had "real gamers" test out the controller for a long time.

So I wouldn't dismiss the controller as a bad controller just because it looks too different or weird. At the very least I'm definitely interested in trying the controller out when I get the chance, or even buying it to give it a chance if it's not too expensive!


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## Mario92 (Sep 28, 2013)

LightyKD said:


> Since GameCube/PS2??? How young are you? You do know that the standard Controller setup started back with SNES right? Back on topic, I'm willing to give this controller a shot but man does it look....different. Hopefully it"s good different.


2 sticks, dpad, 4 shoulder buttons, 4 regular buttons, 1-3 menu buttons in middle, etc. Every controller after that time perioid has pretty much same amount of buttons in same position so they can be used on PC almost identically. That's what I meant. If we go to SNES era then there's no sticks. NES doesn't even have shoulder buttons. 
Yeah I shaped that sentence oddly. Not native english speaker so...


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## Arras (Sep 28, 2013)

I will admit that it doesn't look very pretty, but it looks rather nice to use to me.


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## Mythrix (Sep 28, 2013)

Oh I didn't even notice before now that I can try to join their beta for trying out the new hardware. I'm now "one out of 188,999 eligible beta candidates". :3


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## Qtis (Sep 29, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> It just doesn't look like a comfortable controller to me, maybe I could be wrong and when I do use it I will change my mind, but for now it looks dumb to me.


 
While I honestly respect your opinions and your personality, I think you have something that I call the "Wii syndrome" here. Valve is trying to make something new and I'm also quite skeptical about it. It honestly looks like shhieet. But still, after playing the Wii, a controller's esthetics mean basically jack. If it works for the games they've thought about, it could just as well make a whole new type of genre in some sense.

ps. #360MasterRace. So far the best controller I've used, but sadly I prefer the PS3 GUI. In other words, Valve, make all controllers work out of the box on top of all the controllers.


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## The Catboy (Sep 29, 2013)

Qtis said:


> While I honestly respect your opinions and your personality, I think you have something that I call the "Wii syndrome" here. Valve is trying to make something new and I'm also quite skeptical about it. It honestly looks like shhieet. But still, after playing the Wii, a controller's esthetics mean basically jack. If it works for the games they've thought about, it could just as well make a whole new type of genre in some sense.
> 
> ps. #360MasterRace. So far the best controller I've used, but sadly I prefer the PS3 GUI. In other words, Valve, make all controllers work out of the box on top of all the controllers.


 
Well when it comes down it, it could be like the Wii U gamepad, where I hated it before I used it. Sure the gamepad still looks silly to me, but it's actually really comfortable and works quite well. Maybe this will do the same thing. It looks like shit, then when I use it I like it how it functions more than I hate how it looks.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 29, 2013)

The thing with controllers is that you don't really LOOK at it while using it, in the same way you're not looking at your mouse and keyboard while browsing the web. As such, the looks of the controller really don't mean that much.

What I want to see is someone actually playing an RTS or a FPS on that thing. From where I stand, I'd say it is probably similar to gamepads: if the game adapts to it (read: aiming assist in shooting games), it is usable. Valve, however, claims that this should be able to replace actual keyboard and mouse on games that were designed for keyboard and mice. And that's a pretty bold claim. So I want to hear some third party opinions (in other words: from people not trying to sell the things). If I practice a couple weeks, will I be able to play games like Serious Sam, half life and sorts without being seriously crippled for playing with the controller?

(portal doesn't really count as an FPS in this case, as you don't have to make split-second aiming decisions)


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## urbanman2004 (Sep 29, 2013)

I would be willing to purchase one of those Steam boxes since I'm mainly into PC gaming but for Valve to compete with consoles it's system is gonna have to be at a comparable price point against the next gen consoles with functionality to back it up (valuable to the end user).


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## Taleweaver (Sep 29, 2013)

urbanman2004 said:


> I would be willing to purchase one of those Steam boxes since I'm mainly into PC gaming but for Valve to compete with consoles it's system is gonna have to be at a comparable price point against the next gen consoles with functionality to back it up (valuable to the end user).


Erm...that doesn't sound very likely. Consoles are cheaper to manufacture since they are built in large quantities of the same type. Since there are multiple types of steamboxes and users don't even have to buy one to begin with (making it much harder to estimate how many to manufacture), they'll be more expensive. On top of that, consoles are sold at a loss. And though there is certainly a fee to sell your game on steam, it's not like valve can compensate for all the manufacturers who make "steamOS certified" parts of the machine.


The functionality is probably already there. At least: I doubt steamOS will have much success if you can't install and use the linux program of your choice to begin with.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Sep 29, 2013)

Considering that I could just use my TV as a display for my PC and use a wireless keyboard/mouse combo, I'd say the Steam Box is largely irrelevant to me.

Besides, buying a console that plays Steam games alone when you already have a capable PC doesn't sound like the best of ideas. Granted, people who don't own gaming PCs would definitely appreciate the Steam Box.

I would love to check out that controller though, I hope it's competitively priced. Otherwise I'll just have to settle for my DualShock 3 or buy a cheap PC controller


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## Veho (Sep 29, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> What I want to see is someone actually playing an RTS or a FPS on that thing. From where I stand, I'd say it is probably similar to gamepads: if the game adapts to it (read: aiming assist in shooting games), it is usable. Valve, however, claims that this should be able to replace actual keyboard and mouse on games that were designed for keyboard and mice. And that's a pretty bold claim. So I want to hear some third party opinions (in other words: from people not trying to sell the things). If I practice a couple weeks, will I be able to play games like Serious Sam, half life and sorts without being seriously crippled for playing with the controller?


I imagine it would be like playing those games on a touchpad. Unless Valve has more stuff up their sleeves they're not telling us yet.


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## Mythrix (Sep 29, 2013)

Veho said:


> I imagine it would be like playing those games on a touchpad. Unless Valve has more stuff up their sleeves they're not telling us yet.


 
They did write on the Steam controller product page that the trackpads are supposed to have more advanced haptic feedback than regular touchscreens/smartdevices, "capable of delivering a wide range of force and vibration, allowing precise control over frequency, amplitude, and direction of movement".

But yeah, it's really hard to imagine how well this works without testing it. We'll at least have to wait for them to have a product demo at some game conference so we can get actual video reviews... (or reviews from those who get in the beta, assuming that they also get those gamepads with the Steam Machines.)


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## Veho (Sep 29, 2013)

Mythrix said:


> They did write on the Steam controller product page that the trackpads are supposed to have more advanced haptic feedback than regular touchscreens/smartdevices, "capable of delivering a wide range of force and vibration, allowing precise control over frequency, amplitude, and direction of movement".


But that's just feedback. 

I think the advantage over standard analog sticks is the large surface area (larger range of movement) plus a higher resolution, and the possibility of direct (absolute) position control (for better speed and precision in FPS games). I don't think it's fast enough for RTS games though.


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## Veho (Sep 30, 2013)

Moar info, yo. 

Developers who've tried the beta version of the gamepad had stuff to say: 

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/09/valve-steam-controller-hands-on-unusually-promising/ 
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/28/steam-controller-dev-reactions/ 
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...the_Steam_Controller_Heres_what_they_said.php 

It boils down to, "the haptic feedback works wonders", "it doesn't feel like a trackpad, it feels much better", and general cautious optimism.


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## Kouen Hasuki (Sep 30, 2013)

My friend passed me this and it scarred me... and what better way then to scar The Temp with it too xD


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## Mythrix (Sep 30, 2013)

Kouen Hasuki said:


> My friend passed me this and it scarred me... and what better way then to scar The Temp with it too xD


Cannot unsee! 

But I chuckled nevertheless.


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## GBA rocks (Sep 30, 2013)

I don't see this controller allowing super fast korean-grade micro-managing in RTS games and old fashioned fragging-like-it's-1999 in FPS games. Whoever thinks this is delusional. 

Still, very interesting and exciting. It's a pity they haven't find a way to implement a d-pad too. Maybe in the next iteration? Maybe with ejectable click-in modules? (swap out the 2 touchwheels and put in the d-pad module and the "thumb ABXY" module)


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## EyeZ (Oct 11, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> What I want to see is someone actually playing an RTS or a FPS on that thing.


 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-11-watch-valve-show-off-its-steam-controller-in-action


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## Taleweaver (Oct 11, 2013)

EyeZ said:


> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-11-watch-valve-show-off-its-steam-controller-in-action


Ooh...nice find. I love it! 

It certainly convinced me. While I reserve my doubts to have a true replacement for keyboard and mouse, it looks quite a bit over traditional gamepad controllers.


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## EyeZ (Oct 11, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> Ooh...nice find. I love it!
> 
> It certainly convinced me. While I reserve my doubts to have a true replacement for keyboard and mouse, it looks quite a bit over traditional gamepad controllers.


 
While i was watching it, i did think to myself "i wonder how long he had to practice with it before he became so proficient"


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## Taleweaver (Oct 11, 2013)

Long, probably. I remember when I played UT2004, it took me nearly a week to go from "incredibly much worse" to "a slightly bit better than before" when I made changes to my mouse accuracy or started using a N52. And that's child's play compared to a change like this. But that's not the point: gamepad controllers aren't criticized for being different but for their...clunkyness, by lack of a better word. It can either be high sensitive or low, but even with some extra axis inbetween, it just doesn't compare to a mouse you can swing hard and back to very slow in a fraction of a second. In that sense, the "floatiness" of the portal 2 controls were actually a good thing, IMO. I rather have a higher learning curve if it means the controller has the sort of flexibility that doesn't mean that games themselves have to make sacrifices (e.g. auto-aim).


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## virgildraco (Oct 12, 2013)

EyeZ said:


> While i was watching it, i did think to myself "i wonder how long he had to practice with it before he became so proficient"


 
Well, he is one of the designers, so he can be very proficient, the question is, will it be that easy for us to master that controler or not.


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## Veho (Oct 12, 2013)

virgildraco said:


> the question is, will it be that easy for us to master that controler or not.


It looks pretty intuitive, so it shouldn't be a problem to get used to and master.


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## McHaggis (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm definitely going to get one of these when they come out.  I think I'm probably not going to bother with PS4 or XBox One this generation.  I signed up to Steam a while ago but I've only bought 2 games so far, and that's because gaming on my laptop isn't very appealing.

Also... wah! I need more fwends to have a chance to participate in the beta.  If anyone would like to add me, my user ID is darth_stroyer.  Pwease add me cos I'm so vewy wonewy.


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