# Trump now in hospital



## x65943 (Oct 2, 2020)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5894256002

Trump is now in a local hospital

The white house says this is out of extreme caution for his health, but it's unclear if the president's condition has changed

He has received an antibody slurry that has not been tested for safety or efficacy by any government body

Trump has not communicated with the world via Twitter or otherwise directly since he announced his positive COVID-19 test result last night around 1 AM EST


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## AirbusX (Oct 2, 2020)

Poor guy! I feel so not sorry for him....


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## KiiWii (Oct 2, 2020)

If he doesn’t inject himself with bleach I will feel cheated.


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## th3joker (Oct 2, 2020)

Guess he didnt take his buddy putins vaccine tisk tisk


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## Veho (Oct 2, 2020)

x65943 said:


> He has received an antibody slurry that has not been tested for safety or efficacy by any government body


Convalescent plasma?


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## KingVamp (Oct 2, 2020)

I didn't think they would go experimental with his treatment.


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

here's live coverage, will anyone teach me how to properly incorporate Twitch links here?? The streamer is PRO BIDEN and he's having orgasm, MAGA supporters are advised.

www.twitch.tv/hasanabi


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## Spring_Spring (Oct 2, 2020)

talk about being hoist by his own petard


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## VinsCool (Oct 2, 2020)

Mr Trump probably feels incredibly vulnerable after so many years claiming he was invincible.

I don't wish death to anyone so hopefully he gets better soon.

Still cannot dismiss karma's role here.


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## mehrab2603 (Oct 2, 2020)

Why would they use something untested/experimental if his condition was not serious?


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## leon315 (Oct 2, 2020)

Now Trump has to buy vaccine from China to secure his ass XD

What a historical moment to be alive!


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## ILuvGames (Oct 2, 2020)

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/believe-in-me-now-bitch-asks-covid-20201002201083


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## Viri (Oct 2, 2020)

He'll be fine.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2020)

leon315 said:


> here's live coverage, will anyone teach me how to properly incorporate Twitch links here?? The streamer is PRO BIDEN and he's having orgasm, MAGA supporters are advised.
> 
> www.twitch.tv/hasanabi



He just said "Joe Biden won the debate because he didn't die on stage".... wow, to be pro Biden he sure has some low esteem for him to set the bar so low on "why he won".... fanatics and their rhetoric...


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## leon315 (Oct 3, 2020)

sarkwalvein said:


> He just said "Joe Biden won the debate because he didn't die on stage".... wow, to be pro Biden he sure has some low esteem for him to set the bar so low on "why he won".... fanatics and their rhetoric...


After all this is the Better that USA can offers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, and this STREAMER  was also very disappointing after BBC showed him Trump walked into Chopper....on his feet. Mediocre indeed.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

I'm a Trump supporter, and even if Biden was in the hospital I wouldn't be doing a little dance hoping he dies. But Dems have no souls so it's not a surprise.


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## IncredulousP (Oct 3, 2020)

Fine, I'll say it. I hope he joins the 200,000 he's responsible for.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Fine, I'll say it. I hope he joins the 200,000 he's responsible for.



Not a surprise at all. China started the virus you ignorant piece of crap not Trump. No matter what you think there wouldn't have been 0 deaths no matter who the president was so your comment is so dumb. In fact the first estimation was 2.2 million deaths in America. That points to Trump doing an excellent job. But stay in your delusional safe space if it makes you happy.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I'm a Trump supporter, and even if Biden was in the hospital I wouldn't be doing a little dance hoping he dies. But Dems have no souls so it's not a surprise.


I don't think it is Democrats in general but just some fanatics, anyway it's quite a shame to act like that.


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## mat128 (Oct 3, 2020)

Wow, China sent over a virus to kill the President for imposing trade sanctions on them, that's crazy. Xi's probably partying right now.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

sarkwalvein said:


> I don't think it is Democrats in general but just some fanatics, anyway it's quite a shame to act like that.



No I honestly think a majority of Democrats don't just want Trump to lose they want him dead. I know it's a small sample size but just look at the comments. Not a decent person to be found.


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## emigre (Oct 3, 2020)

Considering the guy is in one of the biggest at risk groups, this really isn't much of a surprise.


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## Chains (Oct 3, 2020)

Hmm, if Trump had to be hospitalized this soon after the debate, chances are that it was already contagious by the time the debate happened.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 3, 2020)

mehrab2603 said:


> Why would they use something untested/experimental if his condition was not serious?




To speed recovery, from what I gathered reading. He walked out to the helicopter for the ride, looked ok. They say mild symptoms .. cough and headache. Immediate access to care and constant monitoring does make sense, a lot more sense than Boris Johnson who waited until he was serious before doing anything about it.




Chains said:


> Hmm, if Trump had to be hospitalized this soon after the debate, chances are that it was already contagious by the time the debate happened.



Pretty sure I've read that all participants, staff, etc for the debate were tested and negative. Can't remember where I saw that, but I can't imagine they would have even had it without same day testing. He isn't 'being hospitalized' because he_ needs _to be, that was pretty obvious when he walked out on camera today. He also posted a short video on Twitter today and looks fine.

pic.twitter.com/B4H105KVSs— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 2, 2020


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## omgcat (Oct 3, 2020)

we'll have to see how this turns out, it took Herman Cain less than 2 weeks to go from fine to "Very Not Fine".


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## Hanafuda (Oct 3, 2020)

omgcat said:


> we'll have to see how this turns out, it took Herman Cain less than 2 weeks to go from fine to "Very Not Fine".




Very true and he's not the only one. Losing John Prine had me down for days.


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## RichardTheKing (Oct 3, 2020)

leon315 said:


> here's live coverage, will anyone teach me how to properly incorporate Twitch links here?? The streamer is PRO BIDEN and he's having orgasm, MAGA supporters are advised.
> 
> www.twitch.tv/hasanabi



"Misconfigured embed".


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## FAST6191 (Oct 3, 2020)

I would be curious to see the timeline if he did kick the bucket or otherwise get taken out of play at this juncture. As it stands it will probably be reasonably fun -- at his age and weight I can't imagine this will be a quick recovery and so much does depend upon how you look and your appearance of health (they have known that for about 60 years at this point https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-debate-that-changed-the-world-of-politics ). Probably got some good uppers, choice camera shots and whatnot though to fake it as and when, and posting silly one liners from a phone (or having someone else do it) is not too demanding. If this last run up to the big day is already looming and whatever feelings people have will be cemented during it then yeah.

If the democrats had such a hard time finding a suitable candidate (and arguably still failed) I can only imagine the last minute arrangements the other guys would have to pull here.
Rino takeover, neocons re establish, religious types return to the fore, did he truly change the party long term and thus someone else in his mould, libertarian?

Re: "untested"
In what regard? Such things have been a protocol for quite some time in a lot of different things, and have a pretty substantial basis behind them. Whether this particular concoction is that good (and I can only imagine the protocols in place here for treating el presidente, indeed I would be shocked if they did not have a nice recovered victim of otherwise matching whatever you need matching in these scenarios waiting in the wings as it were) I would say it has a basis in reality, unlike huffing or shooting bleach and random not even previously noted as being antiviral medicines.


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## PiracyForTheMasses (Oct 3, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Fine, I'll say it. I hope he joins the 200,000 he's responsible for.


The failure of your state and local government is not the failure of the federal government sweet cheeks. You could argue, oh state and local were not prepared and I can argue that being prepared has nothing to do with it. It is not a matter of being prepared, its a matter of doing your job as a leader and your political party failed at being leaders.


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## Smoker1 (Oct 3, 2020)

When I read he had Covid..........LOL


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## TheCasualties (Oct 3, 2020)

While it's never good when a virus spreads.. it's pretty clear that karma is coming to smack him in the ass.

Too bad he's got the entire US $$$ to keep him alive while poor folk have to die.


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## notimp (Oct 3, 2020)

> 04:34 Trump's campaign manager Bill Stepien, has also tested positive for the coronavirus.
> 
> Campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh confirmed the news on Saturday, which was first reported by Politico.
> 
> ...





> 04:00 Alongside Remdesivir, Trump is being treated with an experimental drug


Drugs Trump is treated with:
https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-the-experimental-drug-that-trump-is-being-treated-with/a-55141918
Antibodies, Remdesivir;



> The White House has stated that both the president and the first lady are showing mild symptoms. However, the virus may start showing worse effects during the second week, which is when patients usually deteriorate.


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## komabear (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> No I honestly think a majority of Democrats don't just want Trump to lose they want him dead. I know it's a small sample size but just look at the comments. Not a decent person to be found.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Not a surprise at all. China started the virus you ignorant piece of crap not Trump. No matter what you think there wouldn't have been 0 deaths no matter who the president was so your comment is so dumb. In fact the first estimation was 2.2 million deaths in America. That points to Trump doing an excellent job. But stay in your delusional safe space if it makes you happy.



Who the fuck are you trying to convince?

Look... I don't know what kind of solitary fantasy world you live in and frankly I don't care, but in this world Trump publicly estimated the virus death toll always extremely low. Even at the sharpest peak in April, he estimated the death toll at most at 60'000.

So don't act as if Trump did anything he could because he did the exact opposite. And while you're entitled to your fantasy, at least understand that it's YOUR 'delusional safe space'. America is in a worse spot than it should have been because he sowed division and withheld information, and it's only normal that people are pissed at him for it. That's why so many aren't sorry for him. Again : you don't have to agree with them... Just show some goddamn sympathy, okay? The US lost more people than in most modern wars combined,so a little leadership shouldn't have been too much to ask for.


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## TimPV3 (Oct 3, 2020)

Where are all the shill accounts saying Covid is a hoax now? Oh right, they've shifted to "Democrats want Trump to die they're such meanies"

Hydroxychloroquine


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## Seliph (Oct 3, 2020)

poggers dude


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## Smoker1 (Oct 3, 2020)

TimPV3 said:


> Where are all the shill accounts saying Covid is a hoax now? Oh right, they've shifted to "Democrats want Trump to die they're such meanies"
> 
> Hydroxychloroquine


Also.........LOL


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## scroeffie1984 (Oct 3, 2020)

#SAVETHEKIDS


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## SG854 (Oct 3, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Just show some goddamn sympathy, okay? The US lost more people than in most modern wars combined,so a little leadership shouldn't have been too much to ask for.


This might be messed up but with you mentioning the war bit " @TheCasualties  " liked your comment ha ha


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## Jayro (Oct 3, 2020)

I hope COVID makes his death long and painful... Just like how it felt living under him for the last 4 years. Karma's a bitch.


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## SG854 (Oct 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> I hope COVID makes his death long and painful... Just like how it felt living under him for the last 4 years. Karma's a bitch.


Was your feeling reality? Life was the same for me. Nothing change when he became president.


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## UltraSUPRA (Oct 3, 2020)

RBG abused her power to give herself legislative privileges as well as judicial. When she died, we celebrated.
Trump stayed in his league.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 3, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> RBG abused her power to give herself legislative privileges as well as judicial. When she died, we celebrated.
> Trump stayed in his league.


Something about kids spitting BS makes me sad; but then I guess I shouldn't come around this thread to watch kids write BS. There's some masochism to it.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> I hope COVID makes his death long and painful... Just like how it felt living under him for the last 4 years. Karma's a bitch.



^ Defintely not a peace loving liberal. More like an evil modern day Democrat.

Please explain what he did to you personally that you would wish this? Personally, that means to you. Like you say though karma's a bitch and who knows exactly how deep it goes when you're wishing for another human's long and painful death. Reap what you sow.


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## Jayro (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> ^ Defintely not a peace loving liberal. More like an evil modern day Democrat.
> 
> Please explain what he did to you personally that you would wish this? Personally, that means to you. Like you say though karma's a bitch and who knows exactly how deep it goes when you're wishing for another human's long and painful death. Reap what you sow.


He didn't shut down the country in February like he should have, believing it was a hoax. We could have been done with Covid by now if he hadn't downplayed the severity of this virus. Now he caught the hoax virus, and he gets to swallow a hot dose of irony. I would like to get back to a normal maskless life as soon as possible, but it won't be possible any time soon with him in charge. If he does, he can't be re-elected, so it's a win/win.

And for the record, I'm not Liberal OR Democrat. I'm not Republican either. Both have good and bad ideas, but I guess I'm a bit more left-leaning.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

Jayro said:


> He didn't shut down the country in February like he should have, believing it was a hoax. We could have been done with Covid by now if he hadn't downplayed the severity of this virus. Now he caught the hoax virus, and he gets to swallow a hot dose of irony. I would like to get back to a normal maskless life as soon as possible, but it won't be possible any time soon with him in charge. If he does, he can't be re-elected, so it's a win/win.



Dr Fauci, a liberal, was his adviser. He said masks weren't necessary in February and he didn't apologize for it later. Trump is not a doctor. When Fauci said we need to close in March, he listened. If Fauci was going around telling everybody he told Trump to shut down the country but Trump didn't listen, you got me. But that isn't what happened. BTW it's been said the first covid cases in America were actually in December. So your plan fails too. Should I wish death on you? Nah, I won't stoop that low like you.

BTW that same month February Biden called him a racist for shutting down China. That is a fact. If he didn't shut down China there would have been a LOT more death. The first estimation was 2.2 million deaths, there's only been 200K. So Biden was clearly against closing China, we would have had more death under Biden. So either Biden or Trump there's absolutely no reason to believe this thing would be over today and those are the two candidates.

It's likely going to last years and would have unless we did like China and locked everyone down where you can't leave your homes for 2 months but that doesn't fly in America.  You should be blaming China but that would take critical thought and you trying to hold accountable the actual guilty party, which in your biased mind you have no desire to do.


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

SG854 said:


> Was your feeling reality? Life was the same for me. Nothing change when he became president.



Trump must have inplanted needles in liberals brains. It's the only logical thing that fits their irrational hate for him. He was a Democrat 3 times. If he was a Democrat today he would be a rockstar in the White House.


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## TimPV3 (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trump must have inplanted needles in liberals brains. It's the only logical thing that fits their irrational hate for him. He was a Democrat 3 times. If he was a Democrat today he would be a rockstar in the White House.


I know I shouldn't waste my time with a 2-month old account that is obviously here to sow discord, but if you want to see some really ugly hate, why don't you see what the right is tweeting at AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib. You snowflakes wouldn't last a day with that type of harassment and hate. "I hope you both hang for TREASON!" "you should be tried for treason and i hope they hang you"


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## weatMod (Oct 3, 2020)

x65943 said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5894256002
> 
> Trump is now in a local hospital
> 
> ...


he don't have  COVID
 he was not given any experimental treatment
and he does not even  man his own Twitter account and never has

i can't believe people  still buy into these blatant lies

nobody in the media  or DC  ever had COVID ,  they just keep lying to sell you on the vax
and on the lockdowns which are to accomplish the agendas of the great reset ,agenda 21, agenda 2030
ID 2020
"everybody here has already been vaccinated anyways"


COVID 19 is a bioweapon that was deliberately released
bioweapons of the viral variety are  developed in conjunction with a cure/vaccine or else they are no good
because of blowback
see event 201
this was all planned to bring down the world economy


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

weatMod said:


> he don't have  COVID
> he was not given any experimental treatment
> and he does not even  man his own Twitter account and never has
> 
> i can't believe people  still buy into these blatant lies



I know right, he's not even human he's a reptilian. Can't believe idiots think he's human.


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## weatMod (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I know right, he's not even human he's a reptilian. Can't believe idiots think he's human.


presidents have no power at all , it's ticular position
 they make NO decisions at all they only read the teleprompter 
they are only PR people and only there to be messengers to deliver the  dictates and agendas of the  ruling global cabal all
the decisions are made   years in advance in  think tanks and by international bodies , banks   NGO's organizations and think tanks
everything you see in the media is nothing more than a trivial reality TV show
anyone who thinks otherwise had the intellect of a 3rd grader


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## Deleted User (Oct 3, 2020)

You're right he's not even human.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 3, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Trump must have inplanted needles in liberals brains. It's the only logical thing that fits their irrational hate for him. He was a Democrat 3 times. If he was a Democrat today he would be a rockstar in the White House.


Where have you been the last four years? Let's see...

* supportive of rightward militia groups
* constant attacks on the press
* longest shutdown in recent memory
* withdrawal from many international treaties with barely an alternative
*  trade war with China
* planting executive figures in government departments with the aim of dismantling them (weather service and postal office are the most known) 
* tax shift that overwhelmingly benefits the wealthiest
* full on support for Israel at the expense of Palestinians
* abandonment of Kurdish asked (other als as well, but the kids the worst)
* a barely avoided war with Iran over the cowardice assassination of Soleimani
* blackmailing  Ukraine into digging up dirt on his political opponent
* downplaying /ignoring his own federal agencies on inference in the 2016 election
*... And on that note : taking Putin's word over his own agencies as well
* canceling a nationwide covid plan because the states that were hit hardest (initially) were Democrat owned
* publicly pretending the virus is mostly James while being fully aware of its danger
* tax evasion to mask that he's actually a couple hundred million dollars in debt

Perhaps you've got the memory of a gold fish, but the majority remembers these things... And don't just forgive him because he jumps to a new scandal to distract the attention.


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## TheCasualties (Oct 4, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Where have you been the last four years? Let's see...
> 
> * supportive of rightward militia groups
> * constant attacks on the press
> ...



While I'm pretty sure the post you were replying to was more joke/troll stuff,  let's not forget his hatred of Anit-Fascists..  and him wanting to use a damn Heat Ray on a peaceful protest (not that tear gas is any less cruel)! And appointing a new Supreme who will help him win if the election is close.

Most  embarrassing  4 years of the US ever (hopefully). I really hope I get to come home and see my parents eventually.


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## omgcat (Oct 4, 2020)

TheCasualties said:


> While I'm pretty sure the post you were replying to was more joke/troll stuff,  let's not forget his hatred of Anit-Fascists..  and him wanting to use a damn Heat Ray on a peaceful protest (not that tear gas is any less cruel)! And appointing a new Supreme who will help him win if the election is close.
> 
> Most  embarrassing  4 years of the US ever (hopefully). I really hope I get to come home and see my parents eventually.




its an account that seems to be following the "alt-right playbook".


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## Taleweaver (Oct 4, 2020)

TheCasualties said:


> While I'm pretty sure the post you were replying to was more joke/troll stuff,  let's not forget his hatred of Anit-Fascists..  and him wanting to use a damn Heat Ray on a peaceful protest (not that tear gas is any less cruel)! And appointing a new Supreme who will help him win if the election is close.
> 
> Most  embarrassing  4 years of the US ever (hopefully). I really hope I get to come home and see my parents eventually.


Yeah, I'm probably missing more controversies. To paraphrase Stalin: one controversy is a tragedy, a million ones are statistics. 

The problem is that he MIGHT be a troll account. But it's just as likely he comes from a bunch of circle jerking rightwing group and has honestly no idea why others don't sympathize with Trump. A slim chance, but I'm not going to trash our ignore people because they might be ignorant (or a foreign social engineer, though I think the chances of that are rather small).


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## FAST6191 (Oct 4, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> Where have you been the last four years? Let's see...
> 
> * constant attacks on the press
> *  trade war with China



The others we could debate the merits of (some are anything but clear cut negatives) but are those two unqualified bad things?


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 4, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> The others we could debate the merits of (some are anything but clear cut negatives) but are those two unqualified bad things?


I believe constant attacks on the press is without a doubt a bad thing, even though the quality of the press is bad and it should be criticised under clear terms, it should not be a target of random attacks that really look like trying to  sow even more disinformation.

I don't think the trade war is bad, but I believe it was a failure. More or less this:


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## Godofcheese (Oct 4, 2020)

Friendly reminder 
If you wish someone else harm (or even death) 
Especially a political person that you disagree with.
You sir are trash  

Have a nice day


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## IncredulousP (Oct 4, 2020)

Godofcheese said:


> Friendly reminder
> If you wish someone else harm (or even death)
> Especially a political person that you disagree with.
> You sir are trash
> ...


Pretty sure lots of people wished harm on Hitler.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 4, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Pretty sure lots of people wished harm on Hitler.


Yeah, this again is a symptom of impotence and frustration. Wishing harm to anybody, even Hitler, won't do you or anybody any good. Back in the day it would have been great to just coldly and calmly find a way to remove him from power as fast as possible so that he stopped doing harm... but then would just removing Hitler have ended the systemic antisemitism in Europe? Did it even end? Hmmmm.... a worry for another post.

Sure frustration is what comes when you fail to do that, e.g. stopping the harm.


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## Godofcheese (Oct 4, 2020)

IncredulousP said:


> Pretty sure lots of people wished harm on Hitler.



Are you comparing the two?


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## Deleted User (Oct 4, 2020)

So now Trump is Hitler. I don't remember the gas chambers, killing Jews or any of that. But maybe I missed it.


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## leon315 (Oct 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> He didn't shut down the country in February like he should have, believing it was a hoax. We could have been done with Covid by now if he hadn't downplayed the severity of this virus. Now he caught the hoax virus, and he gets to swallow a hot dose of irony. I would like to get back to a normal maskless life as soon as possible, but it won't be possible any time soon with him in charge. If he does, he can't be re-elected, so it's a win/win.
> 
> And for the record, I'm not Liberal OR Democrat. I'm not Republican either. Both have good and bad ideas, but I guess I'm a bit more left-leaning.


TRUMP will get the best medical treatments available, highly probable he will survive but considering his current physical conditions, probably won't able to walk or run as he was before. GUESS EVERYONE EXPECTS WHEN HE RETURNS, he will certainly shit it on like:
_
See this is nothing but a Chinese flu....even Kung-flu is never able to beat me so neither BIDEN, etc.etc....._


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## SG854 (Oct 4, 2020)

omgcat said:


> its an account that seems to be following the "alt-right playbook".



A few people take politics too seriously like its their identity and get radicalized. I assume its a few minority as the majority of people don't have time for politics other then a few basic stuff, they are too busy working a job taking care of their kids to get into this stuff. Its really the people that have no life that go to deep into it that get radicalized. 

You can agree with right wing points or left wing points. But some people take it too seriously. Get a life and you won't have time for political nonsense.


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## MadonnaProject (Oct 4, 2020)

I am British so don't care much but Trump is the first president in america to not get into a war or bomb a middle east country.

That makes him far better than obama and bush in my book.


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## IncredulousP (Oct 4, 2020)

Godofcheese said:


> Are you comparing the two?


My point was to present an extreme case to see where the lines are drawn between okay and not okay to wish harm.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I don't believe in revenge or torture, but I do believe the world would be a better place if certain people expired. Trump won't redeem himself or improve as a person. As long as he is alive, he will continue to contribute to the suffering and deaths of many people. Ideally he should be imprisoned and rendered harmless, but we don't live in an ideal world. Corruption prevented him from being removed from power. Maybe you can change my mind, but this is becoming off-topic.


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## Jayro (Oct 4, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I am British so don't care much but Trump is the first president in america to not get into a war or bomb a middle east country.
> 
> That makes him far better than obama and bush in my book.


He's also the first president to not own a dog... that should tell you everything you need to know about him, right there.


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## leon315 (Oct 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> He's also the first president to not own a dog... that should tell you everything you need to know about him, right there.


Why a dog is so important for president of USA?


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## Jayro (Oct 4, 2020)

leon315 said:


> Why a dog is so important for president of USA?


It's just tradition mostly, but it's also a trust factor. People who don't like dogs are typically terrible people.


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## SG854 (Oct 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> It's just tradition mostly, but it's also a trust factor. People who don't like dogs are typically terrible people.


Uh Oh I know a few cat people here that'll chase you with pitch forks.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 4, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I am British so don't care much but Trump is the first president in america to not get into a war or *bomb a middle east country*.
> 
> That makes him far better than obama and bush in my book.


?
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/projects/drone-war/yemen
https://www.ft.com/content/6346dd78-322d-11ea-9703-eea0cae3f0de
Now whether such things were justified, good or justifiable is a different matter but if we are talking in absolutes/did-did not fling some explosives around then most definitively did, and not even as a hangover from the last guy to be wrapped up.

We may also see one in Kenya before too long https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-strikes-kenya-that-might-increase-violence/
Though that is not the middle east so I guess that does not count.


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## x65943 (Oct 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> It's just tradition mostly, but it's also a trust factor. People who don't like dogs are typically terrible people.


I like pets, but I don't like owning them because it hurts too much when they die.

Maybe he is a real softy.

Also this "test" doesn't really make sense since Hitler loved dogs.


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## leon315 (Oct 4, 2020)

Jayro said:


> It's just tradition mostly, but it's also a trust factor. People who don't like dogs are typically terrible people.


SAYS A CAT PERSON muhauahuahuha XD
And the guy above was right: Hitler also had dogs, but doesn't make him a good guy.
I love pandas, but it doesn't make me *furry!*


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## Jayro (Oct 4, 2020)

leon315 said:


> SAYS A CAT PERSON muhauahuahuha XD


The only reason I have 2 cats and no dog is because this new apartment I'm in only allows 2 pets minimum. And apartment life isn't fair to the dog, so I'll just wait until we get a house before we get a dog.


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## SG854 (Oct 4, 2020)

leon315 said:


> I love pandas, but it doesn't make me *furry!*


I disagree


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## leon315 (Oct 4, 2020)

SG854 said:


> I disagree


dO You love panda too? Are you furry 0.o?


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 4, 2020)

leon315 said:


> dO You love panda too? Are you furry 0.o?


How did this turn into a discussion about hairy bodies?


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## leon315 (Oct 4, 2020)

sarkwalvein said:


> How did this turn into a discussion about hairy bodies?


Cauz politics make people angry.


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## KingVamp (Oct 4, 2020)

Seems like a waste of energy, but OK. Link


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## gregory-samba (Oct 4, 2020)

I'm just a pet person. Dogs, cats, ferrets, rats, mice, hamster, bunnies, tarantula, etc ... As for Trump the news media is saying he might be back in the White House by tomorrow (Monday the 5th). Seems he didn't get that sick at all. The oxygen drops are serious though, if your oxygen drops too low you can have a heart attack or stroke. Hopefully he stays stable and can return tomorrow.


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## notimp (Oct 4, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Seems like a waste of energy, but OK. Link


It is, because photo op is not Trump specific.  At Walter Reed they seemingly even have flags for that purpose.. 

And as its not Trump specific, it says nothing about health condition. That part is conjecture.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



gregory-samba said:


> I'm just a pet person. Dogs, cats, ferrets, rats, mice, hamster, bunnies, tarantula, etc ... As for Trump the news media is saying he might be back in the White House by tomorrow (Monday the 5th). Seems he didn't get that sick at all. The oxygen drops are serious though, if your oxygen drops too low you can have a heart attack or stroke. Hopefully he stays stable and can return tomorrow.


Watched the first press conference, and him addressing the nation.

Trump: I was told I have to sit in a room for two weeks and not meet anyone, so I thought to myself, thats not a fine public image for a sitting president, lets go to Walter Reeds. (More or less..  )

Walter reeds spokespeople: He is fine, his symptoms are mild, he gets treatment, we are watching to see if his symptoms get much worse starting week 2 of the infection (as they do for other people), but at the same time, as soon as we do know - we can ship him back to the White House, where there is a medical facility anyhow - that will treat him if he doesnt need an emergency room.

Basically.


edit: Read up more on it. There were mixed messages.

On saturday and today personal physician Sean Conley basically said, everything is rosy. Treatment works, no side effects, good condition, mild symptoms.

On friday allegedly, his chief of staff Mark Meadows told press, that he had high temperature, and low blood oxygen levels, and needed oxygen. Apparently his condition improved on friday, as Conley stated that he hasnt had fever since friday.


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## sarkwalvein (Oct 4, 2020)

KingVamp said:


> Seems like a waste of energy, but OK. Link


Uh, then you think he's in a meeting with Kim Jong Un? /s (wearing tinfoil hat)


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## MadonnaProject (Oct 4, 2020)

leon315 said:


> Why a dog is so important for president of USA?



I think he's doing that american thing where they try to be ironic to be funny and think its intelligent.

Apparently he doesn't have a dog but has two cats.

These americans are lost.



FAST6191 said:


> ?
> https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/projects/drone-war/yemen
> https://www.ft.com/content/6346dd78-322d-11ea-9703-eea0cae3f0de
> Now whether such things were justified, good or justifiable is a different matter but if we are talking in absolutes/did-did not fling some explosives around then most definitively did, and not even as a hangover from the last guy to be wrapped up.
> ...



It is the hallmark of the corrupt to find justifications in their wrong behaviour. How would you feel if the people who did 911 tried to justify the same?

Did no one ever teach you people that two wrongs do not make a right?

I know these americans who seem to have this childish/infantile thing where they will say "yeah obama didn't do much, but so did this other guy". No wonder you people never get anywhere recently.


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## FAST6191 (Oct 4, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> It is the hallmark of the corrupt to find justifications in their wrong behaviour. How would you feel if the people who did 911 tried to justify the same?
> 
> Did no one ever teach you people that two wrongs do not make a right?
> 
> I know these americans who seem to have this childish/infantile thing where they will say "yeah obama didn't do much, but so did this other guy". No wonder you people never get anywhere recently.



Not sure why that was directed at me or deals with the points there. You say he had not bombed anywhere in the middle east, as that is factually inaccurate (Yemen being within that whole classification) I provided evidence to the contrary.

The people who did the whole 11th of September bit (and a whole bunch before and after) did try to justify it. Whole document about it any everything. Interesting reading if you want to go read it and contemplate the mindset and world view that led to it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver
https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/handle/10066/4746
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/20/heres-osama-bin-ladens-letter-to-the-american-people/
Some other writings
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/03/us-releases-trove-of-osama-bin-laden-letters/

Two wrongs might not make a right but what is right and what is wrong, especially for decisions taken with incomplete information is a different matter. Though again I am not sure what that pertains to in my initial response. This is also before we contemplate "what is right?" and what standards do we use there.

I am really at a loss for the last paragraph as well. I have seen the mindset too (it is a concept, and what might loosely be called a debate strategy, called "whataboutism") both in the US and all over the place, and is usually pretty weak. What it has to do with my reply or a generalised case I am not sure.


----------



## omgcat (Oct 4, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I am British so don't care much but Trump is the first president in america to not get into a war or bomb a middle east country.
> 
> That makes him far better than obama and bush in my book.



I don't know about that one bud, he extrajudicially killed an iranian general on iraq soil, after asking iraq to broker a 3rd party peace truce meeting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleimani

Also bush and obama never betrayed their allies and left them for dead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_offensive_into_north-eastern_Syria

The betrayal of the kurds was insane.

Both of these actions were highly advised against by his own generals.


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## MadonnaProject (Oct 4, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> Not sure why that was directed at me or deals with the points there. You say he had not bombed anywhere in the middle east, as that is factually inaccurate (Yemen being within that whole classification) I provided evidence to the contrary.
> 
> The people who did the whole 11th of September bit (and a whole bunch before and after) did try to justify it. Whole document about it any everything. Interesting reading if you want to go read it and contemplate the mindset and world view that led to it.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver
> ...



The response about justifying obama's meddling with other countries was directed at you. Trump has come nowhere close to obama in this regard. Whilst two wrongs don't make a right, there is such a thing as the lesser of two evils. Obama did Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia and let's not forget Syria. The longest legacy of war for an american president in history, and a peace prize too.

You seem to be agreeing with me on the crucial points, so us debating this anymore is not really necessary. You're uncertain how it relates to what you said but that is a difference of personal perspective. Going on about it wouldn't help anyone.

As for the links to Osama's letters....I mean....what are we even doing?



omgcat said:


> I don't know about that one bud, he extrajudicially killed an iranian general on iraq soil, after asking iraq to broker a 3rd party peace truce meeting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Qasem_Soleimani
> 
> Also bush and obama never betrayed their allies and left them for dead.
> 
> ...



Read above.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 4, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> The response about justifying obama's meddling with other countries was directed at you. Trump has come nowhere close to obama in this regard. Whilst two wrongs don't make a right, there is such a thing as the lesser of two evils. Obama did Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia and let's not forget Syria. The longest legacy of war for an american president in history, and a peace prize too.
> 
> You seem to be agreeing with me on the crucial points, so us debating this anymore is not really necessary. You're uncertain how it relates to what you said but that is a difference of personal perspective. Going on about it wouldn't help anyone.
> 
> ...


So trump holding funding from Ukraine, funding that was approved by both senate and house. For political favors is okay?
Asking Russia to find Hilary's emails okay? I don't care what stance your on about Hilary ( I don't like her) but another country having influence on our elections, due to a man asking for it, is more than bad enough. Oh wait, your going to claim fake news aren't you. Since it doesn't fit your political views.  My point being, Trump has been worse with his meddling, and rather than being another country, the united states is the target.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 4, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> So trump holding funding from Ukraine, funding that was approved by both senate and house. For political favors is okay?
> Asking Russia to find Hilary's emails okay? I don't care what stance your on about Hilary ( I don't like her) but another country having influence on our elections, due to a man asking for it, is more than bad enough. Oh wait, your going to claim fake news aren't you. Since it doesn't fit your political views.  My point being, Trump has been worse with his meddling, and rather than being another country, the united states is the target.



CNN and other media outlets have been caught over and over lying about Trump. There is no legitimacy in them. Even if they said Biden was a druggie I wouldn't believe them. Not that they ever would disparage a Democrat.

But go ahead and keep believing everything you hear on the idiot box if it comforts you. it's not reality. You're the one believing in a conspiracy theory if you believe Russia interfered in the election. Just because it's on Television in this day and age does NOT mean it's true. They push lie after lie to try to get Trump kicked out of office and every time they failed. If he's reelected you mark my words there will be new things they come up with that were never mentioned before that Trump did. He has been harassed like no President in the history of our country and he's beaten it every time. None of you haters would be able to endure what he has he has half the country wanting him dead celebrating him getting the virus plus the media against him. There is no law against a news outlet lying because we have freedom of press if there were you wouldn't hear any of these lies.


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## Lacius (Oct 4, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> CNN and other media outlets have been caught over and over lying about Trump. There is no legitimacy in them. Even if they said Biden was a druggie I wouldn't believe them. Not that they ever would disparage a Democrat.


What's the single most egregious lie?


----------



## manuGMG (Oct 4, 2020)




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## Deleted User (Oct 4, 2020)

Lacius said:


> What's the single most egregious lie?



Here's 10, there's hundreds of more where that came from 

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20...-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/


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## Lacius (Oct 4, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Here's 10, there's hundreds of more where that came from
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20...-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/


I've taken a new approach where I take points one at a time. Please present your single most egregious lie presented by CNN, and please provide the source.


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## Deleted User (Oct 4, 2020)

3 CNN writers resign after they were caught lying

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40414886https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40414886

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> I've taken a new approach where I take points one at a time. Please present your single most egregious lie presented by CNN, and please provide the source.



Oh so you can't read past 1. Sorry that's not my problem. You clearly didn't even read what I posted because you replied too fast to give it enough time so why should I bother giving my opinion of which is the biggest lie to make you happy? I don't want to do anything to make you happy. Frankly I don't give a shit about your approach it's not my job to cater to your personal approach. 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Liberals are so lazy these days they won't even read the articles that prove your point and they automatically in their mind just discredit them without reading. If you want to not even read the links that I'm posting don't ask me for specifics because you're too damn lazy to read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies


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## Lacius (Oct 4, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> 3 CNN writers resign after they were caught lying
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40414886https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40414886
> 
> ...


If all you can do is paste and dash, I'm uninterested. Please present the single most egregious lie presented by CNN, and we can have a conversation about it. I'm not particularly interested in responding to a scattershot approach to an argument that requires zero thought on your part and a lot of thought on mine.

FYI, your bbc link is dead.


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## Deleted User (Oct 4, 2020)

Request denied. Lies are lies every link I'm posting with every lie is all tied for first. But you're too damn lazy to read so piss off with your request. And I will say the same thing when you keep asking for it.

You're completely worthless.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> If all you can do is paste and dash, I'm uninterested. Please present the single most egregious lie presented by CNN, and we can have a conversation about it. I'm not particularly interested in responding to a scattershot approach to an argument that requires zero thought on your part and a lot of thought on mine.



Do you think I give a shit about what your response is? You're one of the most worthless posters here I'm glad you're not responding it just proves my point you're lazy won't read what's posted and automatically in your mind discredit every link posted because you're completely biased. You have no interest in being proven wrong the only thing you're attempting to do is get my "#1 worst lie" so you can try to discredit it which you would do even if it was proven to you to be true so there's no point. I proved my point you proved you're too lazy to read.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 4, 2020)

Lacius said:


> FYI, your bbc link is dead.




It's not dead it's broken, as in he posted it twice end-on-end for some reason. Just cut it in half and

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40414886


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## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

Must of accidently hit ctrl v twice.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

*CNN insider blows whistle on Network President Jeff Zucker’s personal vendetta against President Trump*
Posted: October 14, 2019

https://www.kusi.com/cnn-insider-bl...rs-personal-vendetta-against-president-trump/

The proof is everywhere, CNN is fake news. They had credibility when it was run by Ted Turner but those days are long gone.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------






An Insider caught this and exposed their sorry asses.

CNN Worldwide President Jeffrey Zucker has been accused of waging a vendetta against President Trump, and undercover footage released Monday by Project Veritas did nothing to dispel that view.

The self-described guerilla journalism outlet released a hidden-camera report featuring audio of a man identified as Mr. Zucker pushing for coverage advancing the Trump impeachment narrative and blasting Fox News for its “fake conspiracy nonsense.”

“Jeff Zucker, basically president of CNN, has a personal vendetta against Trump,” said a man identified as Nick Neville, media coordinator for CNN in Washington, D.C., adding, “It’s not going to be positive for Trump. He [Zucker] hates him. He’s going to be negative.”

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/oct/14/cnns-zucker-accused-by-staffer-of-personal-vendett/

Those that control the news control a lot of the population's minds. You are sheep, and your minds are too weak to change your own biases.


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## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

Anyone who attacks CNN on behalf of Fox News, or vice versa, is in serious need of deprogramming.


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## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Must of accidently hit ctrl v twice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did a little research, have some problems with your claim.
So, perhaps I should ask you a very important question. Who is the manager who founded "project Veritas"
and let's see if you can find the issue with your link. I'll give you a bit of time before I spell out the issue.
But I do agree with @Lacius
your not bringing up what is the single worst thing they did. You moved the conversation to "CNN is a liar" rather than answering his question. And so I won't tell you what the issue is until you point it out,


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

You two seem to think you're more important to me than you really are. I don't care about your input or any of that. I don't want it, I don't need it, I have no desire to hear it. And again request denied I'm not going to cater to you two. I don't want your approval. I would think I'm doing something wrong if I had it.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> You two seem to think you're more important to me than you really are. I don't care about your input or any of that. I don't want it, I don't need it, I have no desire to hear it. And again request denied I'm not going to cater to you two. I don't want your approval. I would think I'm doing something wrong if I had it.


Someone is getting uncomfortable. Again, point the single worst thing they did. This is the burden of proof. So provide it.We aren't going to move past this conversation until you do so. Either you answer or don't.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Someone is getting uncomfortable. Again, point the single worst thing they did. This is the burden of proof. So provide it.We aren't going to move past this conversation until you do so. Either you answer or don't.



I will not answer because you're not going to tell me what to do or think or any of the above. They've been doing it for 4 years my opinion on what the worst one they did is irrelevant. The point is they lie it's proven you are too biased to see even when it's in front of your face even I admit my own opinion on which one is the worst is not that important. The point is they lie it's all big because they're lying about the President of the United States. If you don't accept my answer GOOD! And sorry to tell you I'm not uncomfortable at all. I'm just not going to cater to requests of biased Democrats. I will post the way I want to post no small minded Democrat will dictate how I post.

The real question that I will throw back to you is why aren't you saying they don't lie instead of trying to get my opinion which shouldn't matter to you at all. The argument went from there's no such things as fake news to trying to back me in a corner and say what I think is worst. It is just a stupid thing to request over  and over.  You two are the ones deflecting the discussion was "there's no fake news" I prove there's fake news your only rebuttal has been "well what do you think is the worst thing they lied about" Why aren't you responding to the fake news that they indeed do lie or even trying to defend it.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> I don't. They've been doing it for 4 years my opinion on what the worst one they did is irrelevant. The point is they lie it's proven you are too biased to see even when it's in front of your face even I admit my own opinion on which one is the worst is not that important. The point is they lie it's all big because they're lying about the President of the United States. If you don't accept my answer GOOD! And sorry to tell you I'm not uncomfortable at all. I'm just not going to cater to requests of biased Democrats. I will post the way I want to post no small minded Democrat will dictate how I post.


Clearly to me with your previous answer, you got in a corner and then screamed like a angry barking dog. I hit a nerve with you clearly
"You two seem to think you're more important to me than you really are."

So the issue with your source by the way, and also I'm still going to ask you to answer the single worst lie CNN provided. Is that your source linked to Project Veritas , with a little digging, Project Veritas founder is James O'Keefe, who is a provocateur. Also Project Vertias is not news, it's a right-wing activist group. With KUSI linking it for their source, it's already screwed over.

Now I'll ask again, now that I just pretty much stated your source is not worth a damn, what is the single most egregious lie CNN has made.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Clearly to me with your previous answer, you got in a corner and then screamed like a angry barking dog. I hit a nerve with you clearly
> "You two seem to think you're more important to me than you really are."
> 
> So the issue with your source by the way, and also I'm still going to ask you to answer the single worst lie CNN provided. Is that your source linked to Project Veritas , with a little digging, Project Veritas founder is James O'Keefe, who is a provocateur. Also Project Vertias is not news, it's a right-wing activist group. With KUSI linking it for their source, it's already screwed over.
> ...



Stop deflecting and stop asking me for my opinion which shouldn't even matter to you. The topic is is there fake news or not I proved there is stop being childish and asking for my opinion of the worst that is so typical of a Democrat can't even stay on topic don't even read whats posted and instead try to turn it into a childish banter of "but you need to say what YOU THINK IS THE WORST" What are you 10 years old? Stay on topic or shut the fuck up about it.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

actually let's rephrase since
"CNN and other media outlets"
so what is the worst egregious lie they made?


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> actually let's rephrase since
> "CNN and other media outlets"
> so what is the worst egregious lie they made?



Number 1-1,500 are all tied.

There I answered your question.

You can't even think for yourself you have to take over Lacius' own childish "BUT SAY WHAT'S THE WORST" You want my opinion yet you've done very little to discredit the links I've posted, probably because you are too lazy like Lacius to read. Keep asking me the same question please, see how far it gets you. You two are the ones really backed into a corner because you have nothing but "say what is the worst lie" that is so weak.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Number 1-1,500 are all tied.
> 
> There I answered your question.


Nice dodging, let's try this again.
What is their most egregious lie they made. Please, enlighten me. Because here's the thing. You give me that supposed lie, and I look into it, and multi fact check sources.  Which is what I do. Or you don't and I am going to assume that your lying.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> Nice dodging, let's try this again.
> What is their most egregious lie they made. Please, enlighten me. Because here's the thing. You give me that supposed lie, and I look into it, and multi fact check sources.  Which is what I do. Or you don't and I am going to assume that your lying.



Ok I get it now you're 19 years old you're not old enough to think for yourself so you're repeating what another poster says because your brains haven't grown enough to come up with your own responses. It's ok, I was your age once too. I wasn't THAT stupid, but I was not as smart as I am today.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> Ok I get it now you're 20 years old you're not old enough to think for yourself so you're repeating what another poster says because your brains haven't grown enough to come up with your own responses. It's ok, I was your age once too. I wasn't THAT stupid, but I was not as smart as I am today.


Again you just keep dodging. 

Also another issue your bbc article you pointed to as proof. Perhaps you didn't read all the way through it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40414886
"The story was written based on the account of a single anonymous source. Many news outlets require at least two sources before running a story."
Fact this is pointed out is important. News writers do fuck up, that's well past known. And CNN fired those who were bad actors. Which goes against your idea that CNN and everyone is fake news. If they were, they wouldn't care to take down the factually incorrect article.
So i must bare repeating myself, point out the single most egregious lie.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

CNN is fake news. They know it, I know it, Trump knows it, practically everybody knows it. Most Democrats know it too but their irrational hate for Trump makes you believe in the lies. Keep believing in the lies. 

I posted an insider that was working inside CNN and they said "we the media created the Trump monster and we feed it everyday" No matter how hard you want to believe it's not reality. Keep taking the blue pill you can't handle the red pill.


----------



## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 5, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> The US lost more people than in most modern wars combined,so a little leadership shouldn't have been too much to ask for.


What makes war so dramatic with regards to population is that potentially reproductive people die before they have children. Russia could have double the population today, Jews possibly even more.
The 200.000 deaths are - as tragic as they are - not comparable to war where young people die.
In fact, there was a conspiracy theory that China invented the virus to kill off its aging population... (obviously ridiculous)


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> CNN is fake news. They know it, I know it, Trump knows it, practically everybody knows it. Most Democrats know it too but their irrational hate for Trump makes you believe in the lies. Keep believing in the lies.
> 
> I posted an insider that was working inside CNN and they said "we the media created the Trump monster and we feed it everyday" No matter how hard you want to believe it's not reality. Keep taking the blue pill you can't handle the red pill.


"CNN and other media outlets"
You stated other media outlets, I am asking you for the burden of proof. you keep saying things without a quality source. Keep moving away from the question. your not really fooling anyone here. You have not provided a quality source, the BBC article debunked your own point. So, are you just going to keep yelling without thinking or actually discuss. 
Because I'm waiting.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Oct 5, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I am British so don't care much but Trump is the first president in america to not get into a war or bomb a middle east country.
> 
> That makes him far better than obama and bush in my book.


He bombed Syria and ordered a clear act of war against Iran. Not saying Clinton would have been better.


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 5, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> The response about justifying obama's meddling with other countries was directed at you. Trump has come nowhere close to obama in this regard. Whilst two wrongs don't make a right, there is such a thing as the lesser of two evils. Obama did Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia and let's not forget Syria. The longest legacy of war for an american president in history, and a peace prize too.
> 
> You seem to be agreeing with me on the crucial points, so us debating this anymore is not really necessary. You're uncertain how it relates to what you said but that is a difference of personal perspective. Going on about it wouldn't help anyone.
> 
> As for the links to Osama's letters....I mean....what are we even doing?



We can debate relative merits of actions of different people if you like, however you initially said the current el presidente was the first one in quite some time not to lob some bombs on the middle east.
Seen as Yemen (right next door to Saudi Arabia and Oman on the same peninsula so definitely middle east) had a whole bunch of bombs dropped during that timeframe that is demonstrably untrue. None of this was about the justification for such acts (some might well have been justified, some not) or relative volumes compared to previous administrations (there is more than just Yemen) but that is a different discussion.

You then said what if the person who did the whole 11th of September 2001 attacks attempted to justify their actions what would I think. A bizarre tangent really given the previous discussion but OK. The person ultimately held as financing, motivating and whatnot such things is known and their part in such acts is accepted by just about everybody. He did then release various documents attempting to justify the attacks, and general hostilities before and after, which is what I linked.


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## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

*Trump briefly leaves hospital to greet supporters; Walter Reed doctor calls it ‘insanity’*
https://chicago.suntimes.com/corona...pporters-walter-reed-doctor-calls-it-insanity

“Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die,” Dr. James P. Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed, tweeted.


----------



## IncredulousP (Oct 5, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> *Trump briefly leaves hospital to greet supporters; Walter Reed doctor calls it ‘insanity’*
> https://chicago.suntimes.com/corona...pporters-walter-reed-doctor-calls-it-insanity
> 
> “Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die,” Dr. James P. Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed, tweeted.


Lmao what a brilliant man.


----------



## KingVamp (Oct 5, 2020)

Danger aside, I guess he really doesn't like being cooped up and staying in one place for too long.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 5, 2020)

*QAnon supporters push baseless theory that Trump isn’t in the hospital *
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...supporters-push-baseless-theory-trump-isnt-h/


----------



## MadonnaProject (Oct 5, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> We can debate relative merits of actions of different people if you like, however you initially said the current el presidente was the first one in quite some time not to lob some bombs on the middle east.
> Seen as Yemen (right next door to Saudi Arabia and Oman on the same peninsula so definitely middle east) had a whole bunch of bombs dropped during that timeframe that is demonstrably untrue. None of this was about the justification for such acts (some might well have been justified, some not) or relative volumes compared to previous administrations (there is more than just Yemen) but that is a different discussion.
> 
> You then said what if the person who did the whole 11th of September 2001 attacks attempted to justify their actions what would I think. A bizarre tangent really given the previous discussion but OK. The person ultimately held as financing, motivating and whatnot such things is known and their part in such acts is accepted by just about everybody. He did then release various documents attempting to justify the attacks, and general hostilities before and after, which is what I linked.



How is it a bizarre tangent when you  mentioned justification initially. I've been pretty clear, I think you may be confused because what you're saying is reading like a college assignment. Lots of citations out of left field and phrases such as "motivating and whatnot such things is known and their part in such acts is accepted by just about everybody".

You seem like an intelligent person but why feign confusion? Also, intelligent people do not resort to technicalities to prove their point. Its feeble. If not for the Obama administration supporting the coalition against Yemen, Trump, as his successor would not have had to follow through. Yet when Trump did, the Obama camp suddenly decided the matter was ill-advised.

Its the same as the whole "children in cage" debacle. Obama set up those facilities in the first place.

Need I remind you of the horrific human rights breaches in guantanamo the Obama administration is responsible for?

I am not a trump supporter and neither an obama fan - they're equally as bad. I just said Trump, in my personal opinion is the lesser of two evils. Now I know you're probably baffled, or befuddled, or perplexed or nonplussed (not confused because that's too simple a word, dear me) by what I just said but remember, we don't all need to be at the altar of saint barack to be good.



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> He bombed Syria and ordered a clear act of war against Iran. Not saying Clinton would have been better.



Read above.



monkeyman4412 said:


> So trump holding funding from Ukraine, funding that was approved by both senate and house. For political favors is okay?
> Asking Russia to find Hilary's emails okay? I don't care what stance your on about Hilary ( I don't like her) but another country having influence on our elections, due to a man asking for it, is more than bad enough. Oh wait, your going to claim fake news aren't you. Since it doesn't fit your political views.  My point being, Trump has been worse with his meddling, and rather than being another country, the united states is the target.



I have no political views on this, I am not American. Just stating my opinion on the matter, which where I come from is perfectly allowed. As for the whole "political favours" is concerned, please, not like he got a box of chocolates in return. Same for the russia meddling thing. I deal with facts not wives tales for the bored and mediocre.


----------



## leon315 (Oct 5, 2020)

manuGMG said:


>


"TRUMP used CLOROX."
"IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!


----------



## chrisrlink (Oct 5, 2020)

I wish him well and wish he gets slammed by the NY DA after he leaves the white house no one should be above the law not even trump and all the evidence suggest he's guilty of many financial crimes i'd lose even more faith in our country if biden wins but pardon's trump of any tax crimes but this isn't like nixon where his vp pardoned him


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I have no political views on this, I am not American. Just stating my opinion on the matter, which where I come from is perfectly allowed. As for the whole "political favours" is concerned, please, not like he got a box of chocolates in return.


And from where I come, stopping funds or redirecting them when they have already been agreed by congress is illegal.And yes he was asking for a political favor, which was to find dirt on Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. Essentially, you get no money, money that congress agreed on (aka went through house and senate), unless you dig up dirt on my political opponent was what Trump was doing.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> And from where I come, stopping funds or redirecting them when they have already been agreed by congress is illegal.And yes he was asking for a political favor, which was to find dirt on Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. Essentially, you get no money, money that congress agreed on (aka went through house and senate), unless you dig up dirt on my political opponent was what Trump was doing.



I know what trump did. He also got impeached. What do you think the proper punishment would have been?


----------



## FAST6191 (Oct 5, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> How is it a bizarre tangent when you  mentioned justification initially. I've been pretty clear, I think you may be confused because what you're saying is reading like a college assignment. Lots of citations out of left field and phrases such as "motivating and whatnot such things is known and their part in such acts is accepted by just about everybody".
> 
> You seem like an intelligent person but why feign confusion? Also, intelligent people do not resort to technicalities to prove their point. Its feeble. If not for the Obama administration supporting the coalition against Yemen, Trump, as his successor would not have had to follow through. Yet when Trump did, the Obama camp suddenly decided the matter was ill-advised.
> 
> ...



I don't know if you started off misinterpreting me and caused a whole chain of confusion.

Still from where I sit.

You made a simple statement that he had not lobbed any bombs onto a middle eastern country.

This was untrue. The first citations were for that.

I don't know if you saw the word justification and assumed something (the initial phrase was about not discussing justification at this point). Either way you then went off about the 11th of September 2001 attacks and what if the people responsible attempted to justify it. They did, I linked said attempt at justification.

Cause and effect is a fun one. I did marginally broach the concept there but from where I sit it was not just a leave office and take office affair whilst it was all going on. Definite demarcation there and options to cease hostilities if it was deemed prudent.
If we do play the cause and effect game though where do we stop? Sykes-picot?
This is also ignoring the non middle eastern countries that had such fun and games too. Plus if Yemen is somehow not enough then earlier this yeah in Baghdad there was the whole killing of that general
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50979463
That was a standalone act as far as I can tell. One made years after any previous efforts or not as a continuation of anything in particular.

Lobbing bombs is not inherently immoral either. There are reasons to be doing it under most takes on morality, certainly those in common play in most of the world (pure pacifism does not) and used by the US, the UN, NATO and allies thereof, as well as various places in the middle east (though this can get murkier).
Whether it was or was not here, or was forced, was as yet undiscussed. I am less familiar with all this but can do a bit of reading to get properly up to speed if you really want to go there.

Guantanamo you say. Can't say I was a fan of the methods, results or justifications. For one that decried whataboutism in a previous post it is amusing that you would bring it up however.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

MadonnaProject said:


> I know what trump did. He also got impeached. What do you think the proper punishment would have been?


to get remove from office. His actions severely violated what a United States president is supposed to do. He got impeached ,but the senate decided to say "oh well, he learned his lesson" and give a free pass, and then he started doing more illegal shit. Like for example, diverting funds that should of gone to the pentagon to his wall. In the executive branch you don't have the power to do that, and the courts agreed on that fact he couldn't do that. And this is just one example.


----------



## Hanafuda (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> to get remove from office. His actions severely violated what a United States president is supposed to do. He got impeached ,but the senate decided to say "oh well, he learned his lesson" and give a free pass, and then he started doing more illegal shit. Like for example, diverting funds that should of gone to the pentagon to his wall. In the executive branch you don't have the power to do that, *and the courts agreed on that fact he couldn't do that*. And this is just one example.



The Supreme Court said he _could_ do that.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 5, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> The Supreme Court said he _could_ do that.


Just checked, wow, yeah they did. Welp, looks like separations of powers really don't exist anymore.


----------



## notimp (Oct 5, 2020)

Probability wise its now a little clearer what happened, still no confirmation by the white house.


Two scenarios:

- President faked stronger symptoms, used Walter Reed as a PR opportunity to be in the press. And refused to self isolate, when he knew a close member of staff tested positive

- President has refused testing for at least a week or so, and then refused to self isolate, when he knew a close member of staff tested positive.


The first scenario just became more unlikely, because apparently you only get the antibody cocktail, when you have shown heavier symptoms, like problems with breathing, and low oxygen levels. Dexamethasone also is reserved for later stage treatment. The antibody cocktail is currently in clinical trials (about 200 people have gotten it) and was shone to be the cause of a worse outcome if prescribed too early. So your bodies immune system needs to fire and start producing, and then - when overwhelmed, you are go to take it.

The president reportedly has taken it. In general those symptoms (problems breathing) develop in the second week of you having the virus, not the first. Which is also an indication that Trump might have had the virus for a while.

Before the debate he arrived late and could not be tested (the broadcaster went ahead based on an honor system).
--

For the first scenario to be true (president was tested daily and the infection was caught early), treating with the antibody drug would be malpractice, but its still possible that that happened, because of 'VIP patients get what they want', so a slight tendency to overtreatment.
--

In any case, the white house refused to report, when Trump last tested negative, and there were time discrepancies in the statements by his personal physician. (He likely lied.)
---

In any case, Trump went to his last fundraiser, boarding a plane, knowing that his closest adviser tested positive, 'feeling groggy' and having a sore voice (as per staff comments), without protective equipment - and then held the fundraiser without protective equipment.

As a result republican party advisers, and campaignmanagers are droping like flies, being tested positive for Covid, and the White House has announced, that it will not make public the names of further people that get tested positive.

Clusterf.


----------



## notimp (Oct 5, 2020)

Makes NO sense:

Trump to be released from Walter Reed.


No mention of the antibody drug (which would indicate which stage of infection he was on), a slight uncomfortable 'nudge' to "president got his treatments 'very early'", which would be nonstndard treatment and potentially dangerous,

BUT at the same time releasing him from hospital, prior to the one week deadline, when people would know how treatment was working going into the crucial second week, where most people show worsening of symptoms.

And again another refusal to answer when the president had his last negative test.

Bunch of liars.

Still maintain, that the most likely scenario is, that Trump skipped covid testing for at least a week, and was infected 7+ days from now.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Oct 5, 2020)

monkeyman4412 said:


> to get remove from office. His actions severely violated what a United States president is supposed to do. He got impeached ,but the senate decided to say "oh well, he learned his lesson" and give a free pass, and then he started doing more illegal shit. Like for example, diverting funds that should of gone to the pentagon to his wall. In the executive branch you don't have the power to do that, and the courts agreed on that fact he couldn't do that. And this is just one example.



Your own supreme court ruled he was within his remit. I think your feelings about the matter are valid but let's respect the decision of the highest court in your country shall we? They might know a bit more about this.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

About the Impeachment - There's nothing wrong with a President renegotiating a trade deal.

About Trump's ride around - The Secret Service agents in the car and Trump were wearing masks and the agents volunteered to be in the car. I don't see why it would be okay for tens of thousands of people to go protest without masks, but it's wrong for consenting adults wearing masks to be in the same car. Makes you wonder how the protestors got the protests especially since none of them really are wearing masks. Hmm.....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'm also glad to see Trump hasn't fallen severely ill and will be returning to the White House today. That's the plan at least. Remember, even with the obesity and age the odds of him getting really sick or dying are extremely low.


----------



## MadonnaProject (Oct 5, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> I don't know if you started off misinterpreting me and caused a whole chain of confusion.
> 
> Still from where I sit.
> 
> ...



Oh no, lobbing bombs isn't inherently immoral. Its whom they land on and how many they kill, and what social/political nightmares they set into motion that counts.

I find when people try to be intelligent and dissect things to the very basic (but undeniable) technicality, it belies that very intelligence they're trying to convey desperately. Its insincere and you're doing yourself a disservice.

The manner in which you're failing to see why I said what I did, it is clear, perhaps you're so intelligent that what I say is simply flying under your radar, or smart but not quite enough to catch my drift. I know what I think, I am certain you think the opposite - and that's ok.

To harken back to Sykes-Picot agreement is infantile, irrelevant and unnecessary. You CAN judge the current situation on its own merit. This may come as a surprise, but not everything needs a citation, reference or precedent. One should, on occasion, try thinking for themselves.


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## notimp (Oct 5, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> About the Impeachment - There's nothing wrong with a President renegotiating a trade deal.


A president doesnt negotiate a trade deal.

Trade deals are negotiated on the administration level, in this case bilaterally, for months and years, by mid level diplomatic grunts going back and forth, then when everything is ready - you have the PR part (signing...).



gregory-samba said:


> I don't see why it would be okay for tens of thousands of people to go protest without masks, but it's wrong for consenting adults wearing masks to be in the same car.


Same reason why its wrong to have Covid parties.

More in depth explaination, if people are out in the open aerosol based infections are 'close to zero' (there have not been high infection rate bumps correlated with mass protests). When people are working in meat processing plants (close proximity, inside, higher humidity) - they, likely, are more problematic. Now, sitting in the same hermetically sealed car is closer to the second one.



> Dr. James Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed who is also chief of disaster medicine at George Washington University, lambasted the move as being made for "political theater."
> 
> "That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID-19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play," he wrote on Twitter.


https://www.npr.org/sections/latest...mp-waves-to-supporters-outside-of-walter-reed

Which brings us to the logic step you love to ignore.

If you have a potentially fatal (to others) illness, you dont shop it around. Even if there is only 5% (or lower) risk of infection - do you really want to be the person, that has to say to yourself later in life - I guess I killed a guy, because I wanted to take a stroll?

Consenting is BS, if your job depends on being a yesman to a baphoon. There are pressures at work here - that make 'consenting' - not so 'consenting'. The next argument then is, but the secret service guys, are putting their lives at risk every day anyhow, thats their job, and the rebuttle there is - YES, but in this case its the president shooting bullets at them. This is entirely irresponsible.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

notimp said:


> A president doesnt negotiate a trade deal.
> 
> Trade deals are negotiated on the administration level, in this case bilaterally, for months and years, by mid level diplomatic grunts going back and forth, then when everything is ready - you have the PR part (signing...).



There's nothing stopping a President to renegotiate a trade deal and yes some are indeed initiated with promises from Presidents. Obama set the terms and conditions on the large cash payment to Iran and that's probably not the only trade deal he had his hands in. What Trump did wasn't illegal and it wasn't close to quid pro quo. The Senate acquitted him because the case against him was utter bullshit. We do however have Joe on record bragging about quid pro quo and since it's now customary to impeach a President simply for winning the election I would support an early effort to impeach Biden, because you know, guilty isn't necessary and all.


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## notimp (Oct 5, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> There's nothing stopping a President to renegotiate a trade deal


A president doesnt negotiate a trade deal. This is not how trade negotiations work.

If its wrong or not, doesnt matter - it doesnt happen.

Its 'easy speak, max condensed down' for - 'the administration that came into place, when a new president was voted in'.

Reason: Highly complex stuff, very nitty gritty, not at all for the guy that has to keep an eye on the bigger picture, und in general too complex for one guy to handle. I think (not sure) it wouldnt even be common for a president to set 'red lines' (until there and no further) here.


edit: Here, read this:
https://psmag.com/economics/the-president-recently-gained-power-over-trade-deals

Trump imposed tariffs using emergency powers to influence procedure - otherwise he wouldnt be involved at all.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

notimp said:


> A president doesnt negotiate a trade deal. This is not how trade negotiations work.
> 
> If its wrong or not, doesnt matter - it doesnt happen.
> 
> ...



There's nothing stopping a President from negotiating trade deals and it's not uncommon for them to do so. The problem was the Liberals claimed there was quid pro quo when there was none. I also believe if you're trading that one side gives you something based on what you want and what you're willing to give them in return. What did the Liberals who supported the impeachment expect? Did they expect us just to give Ukraine aid and get nothing in return? LOL.


----------



## notimp (Oct 5, 2020)

Presidents never influenced trade policy up to 1930 says my source, and after that, they started to get a bit more politically involved. But they never negotiated trade deals.

Their administration does.

The president signs.


You cant be so naive that you think, that trade deals are done on 1 on 1 negotiation basis with handshake agreements. The formalities surrounding them alone would make your head explode.  And there is back and forth on legal points and definitions for months, sometimes years. Thats nothing a president does.

edit: Here is the extend the president is involved in the UK trade deal thats currently being wrapped up:


> Trade negotiations with the US have slowed partly because of the imminent November Presidential elections. It will not be simple.  Agriculture is much more sensitive and the Farm Bureau (NFUS equivalent but bigger!) hold a lot of influence over the Senate.  If farmers and ranchers are not listened to, there will not be a deal nor votes. The US ambassador in the UK, Woody Johnson made this very clear to me in discussions I had with him.
> 
> Recently the Farm Bureau set a series of questions for the two presidential candidates on international trade. Biden never gave any direct comment on UK/US trade negotiations and Trump said he was eager to finalise a new US/UK trade agreement that includes significant agricultural access and will pave the way for progress with the EU, which he described as “one of the most unfair markets to many of our America farmers”.  This came at the tail end of all his other trade comments and does not feel like a US priority.





> Nevertheless, negotiations are ongoing and entering round four.  The current thinking is we will be lucky if talks are concluded by next summer and it may be further away if Senator Biden gets elected as he has stated he wants a review of all current trade deals.


https://www.nfus.org.uk/news/blog/talking-trade-deals--presidential-blog--16-september-2020

He says 'very unfair' for a bit, otherwise 'get it done'.


----------



## elm (Oct 5, 2020)




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## Ferris1000 (Oct 5, 2020)

the most bleech is bought buy Donald Trump, that's why it's hair is so white


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 5, 2020)

Welp, Trump got into his helo and is flying back to the White House. That's the first time I've seen someone leave the hospital in a helicopter as usually they are landing for emergency services. Trump still isn't out of the woods yet, but like I've keep stating his odds of getting seriously ill let alone die from the covid are really low.


----------



## daifunai (Oct 5, 2020)

He was actually released on Monday (today).

He's going to go far - way better than ol' Sleepy Joe. Dude can't keep his speech fluent, can't stay awake... The idiot actually took an interview from CARDI B! Aka the most degenerate hoebag in pop music today. Why? She's not even relevant!


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 6, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> There's nothing stopping a President to renegotiate a trade deal and yes some are indeed initiated with promises from Presidents. Obama set the terms and conditions on the large cash payment to Iran and that's probably not the only trade deal he had his hands in. What Trump did wasn't illegal and it wasn't close to quid pro quo. *The Senate acquitted him because the case against him was utter bullshit.* We do however have Joe on record bragging about quid pro quo and since it's now customary to impeach a President simply for winning the election I would support an early effort to impeach Biden, because you know, guilty isn't necessary and all.


The Senate acquitted Trump because the GOP had more votes.  Had this case been made against Obama, we'd have the same script, only flipped.  The impeachment process is nothing more than an exercise in polarity.


----------



## Deleted User (Oct 6, 2020)

daifunai said:


> He's going to go far - way better than ol' Sleepy Joe. Dude can't keep his speech fluent, can't stay awake... The idiot actually took an interview from CARDI B! Aka the most degenerate hoebag in pop music today. Why? She's not even relevant!



I guess young people like her? I don't know.

It reminds me that I read MTV was targeting young girls.  I could not believe it, the channel that used to show Headbangers Ball. But whatever I haven't watched it since the 90's so nothing is lost in my book.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 6, 2020)

daifunai said:


> He was actually released on Monday (today).
> 
> He's going to go far - way better than ol' Sleepy Joe. Dude can't keep his speech fluent, can't stay awake... The idiot actually took an interview from CARDI B! Aka the most degenerate hoebag in pop music today. Why? She's not even relevant!


Indeed, Biden's meeting with Cardi B was nowhere near as elegant as Kanye taking a leave of absence from the Mensa society to visit Trump.  And of course there was also this whopper of a meeting:

*Kanye West met with Kushner as rapper eyes 2020 election spot*
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-rapper-eyes-2020-election-spot-idUSKCN2582KM

Can anyone guess why Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner coordinated a black rapper's run for President instead of someone like, say, a Ted Nugent or a Garth Brooks?


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> The Senate acquitted Trump because the GOP had more votes.  Had this case been made against Obama, we'd have the same script, only flipped.  The impeachment process is nothing more than an exercise in polarity.



I don't believe they would have even tried to impeach Obama over made up bullshit. Both Trump and the Ukraine President, the only two people that were on the phone together regarding the deal both claimed no quid pro quo. I read the transcripts and there was none. The Democrats swore to impeach Trump regardless of guilt and that's exactly what they did. I don't think the Senate gave Trump a pass because he's a Republican now. I think they like mostly every other person saw right through the partisan bullshit. 

What Trump did wasn't illegal and he was in his right to renegotiate a trade deal with another country. He's the President. If he wants to deal directly with another President then that's his right. By nature "trade" deals go like this; both sides exchange (trade) something with each other. Did you expect we'd just give out all sorts of money and assets and get nothing in return? If you do then I encourage you to go look up the definition for "trading" and get back to me.


----------



## Viri (Oct 6, 2020)

He'll be a-okay!


----------



## UltraSUPRA (Oct 6, 2020)




----------



## LumInvader (Oct 6, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I don't believe they would have even tried to impeach Obama over made up bullshit. Both Trump and the Ukraine President, the only two people that were on the phone together regarding the deal both claimed no quid pro quo. I read the transcripts and there was none. The Democrats swore to impeach Trump regardless of guilt and that's exactly what they did. I don't think the Senate gave Trump a pass because he's a Republican now. I think they like mostly every other person saw right through the partisan bullshit.
> 
> What Trump did wasn't illegal and he was in his right to renegotiate a trade deal with another country. He's the President. If he wants to deal directly with another President then that's his right. By nature "trade" deals go like this; both sides exchange (trade) something with each other. Did you expect we'd just give out all sorts of money and assets and get nothing in return? If you do then I encourage you to go look up the definition for "trading" and get back to me.


This higher standard you speak of -- it doesn't exist.  Both parties play dirty and use up their political capital as soon as they get it.

*The Trump–Ukraine Transcript Contains Evidence of a Quid Pro Quo*
https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...anscript-contains-evidence-of-a-quid-pro-quo/

I find this article useful due to a couple reasons:

- It's a conservative website
- The author tweeted a paragraph-by-paragraph breakdown of the quid pro quo, here:

https://twitter.com/davidafrench/status/1176869185009459200?s=21



> David French
> @DavidAFrench
> 
> The sequence is plain. Trump wants Ukraine to be "reciprocal." Zelensky raises his nation's defense needs, and Trump raises his investigation demands, including the request that Ukraine look into Joe and Hunter Biden. This is completely unacceptable. /end


I agree with David French.  Mick Mulvaney does, too!


----------



## KingVamp (Oct 6, 2020)

He is having a hard time breathing. Even if he beats the virus, I'd be surprised if there's no issues afterwards.


----------



## gregory-samba (Oct 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> This higher standard you speak of -- it doesn't exist.  Both parties play dirty and use up their political capital as soon as they get it.
> 
> *The Trump–Ukraine Transcript Contains Evidence of a Quid Pro Quo*
> https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...anscript-contains-evidence-of-a-quid-pro-quo/
> ...




I'm going to take the word of the two people involved in the phone call over some 3rd party. They do happen to be two men who are Presidents of entire countries and all. I also read the transcript and there's no quid pro quo and even if there was I don't see why it should be illegal for someone to want something in return in a trade deal.


----------



## LumInvader (Oct 6, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I'm going to take the word of the two people involved in the phone call over some 3rd party. They do happen to be two men who are Presidents of entire countries and all. I also read the transcript and there's no quid pro quo and even if there was I don't see why it should be illegal for someone to want something in return in a trade deal.


Taking the word of Donald Trump?  Well there's your problem right there.  No matter how Trump and his allies spin it, the proof is in the pudding.
So, this is the key statement near the start of the transcript. Note the Trump says Ukraine hasn't been "reciprocal" -- which is fine for presidents to say -- yet then the rest of the transcript lays out Trump's requests. /1 pic.twitter.com/23eaeSaqo8— David French (@DavidAFrench) September 25, 2019

Trump's next two paragraphs are two distinct requests -- first, to look into 2016 and Crowdstrike: /3 pic.twitter.com/b9f1iRH0HG— David French (@DavidAFrench) September 25, 2019

The sequence is plain. Trump wants Ukraine to be "reciprocal." Zelensky raises his nation's defense needs, and Trump raises his investigation demands, including the request that Ukraine look into Joe and Hunter Biden. This is completely unacceptable. /end— David French (@DavidAFrench) September 25, 2019


*GAO: Trump administration violated the law by withholding approximately $214 million appropriated to DOD for security assistance to Ukraine*
https://www.gao.gov/about/press-center/press-releases/press-statement-b-331564-omb-ukraine.htm

In summary:

- Trump wants Ukraine to be "reciprocal"
- Zelensky raises his nation's defense needs
- Trump raises his investigation demands, including the request that Ukraine look into political opponent Joe Biden and son Hunter
- Trump administration withholds $214 million earmarked to Ukraine by congress -- illegally

The most transparent case of quid pro quo in recent memory.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Kudos to Rudy Giuliani for doing everything in his power to highlight the quid pro quo:

*Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani was trying to ‘dig up political dirt’ on Trump political opponent, Trump appointee Kent testifies*


*Lev Parnas' Full Video of Trump Telling Associates To "Get Rid Of" Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch (Sound byte @ 42:08 mark)*


*"I needed Yovanovitch out of the way": Rudy Giuliani made admission about his role in ousting a former US ambassador*
https://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-i-needed-yovanovitch-out-of-the-way-2019-12

*New fraud charges against Lev Parnas might involve Trump's lawyer Giuliani*
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/09/rudy-guiliani-lev-parnas-fraud-guarantee/


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## gregory-samba (Oct 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Taking the word of Donald Trump?  Well there's your problem right there.  No matter how Trump and his allies spin it, the proof is in the pudding.
> https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1176869185009459200
> https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1176869192437571585
> https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1176869198053724160
> ...




I was heavily involved in reading about and watching the debate/trail in Congress. I painfully watched the testimony. There's nothing you can say or show me to convince me Trump was guilty of quid pro quo and *even if he was I wouldn't care*. When I negotiate with someone over a trade, like swapping a phone for whatever I always want something in return. I just don't go around giving people free phones that I paid for.

Yes, I'll take the word of the two President's involved in the phone call over bits and pieces of the conversation thrown together to paint a picture of something that never happened. The context and the rest of what said is important. Sure, you can pick out a couple things someone said out of pages of material and tie them together to form something they never said, but that's fabrication ... nothing more than made up lies.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to read your links or sources, there's nothing new to be learned. I mean, when the Democrats main witness claims he doesn't have access to his records so he has to *assume most of what he says *and then after the fact you learn he had access to those records you'll see how thin and lousy a case the Democrats had against Trump.

There's nothing wrong with Trump renegotiation a trade deal or wanting something in return in a trade deal. That's sort of how a trade deal works, you give something and get something.


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## LumInvader (Oct 6, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> I was heavily involved in reading about and watching the debate/trail in Congress. I painfully watched the testimony. There's nothing you can say or show me to convince me Trump was guilty of quid pro quo and *even if he was I wouldn't care*. When I negotiate with someone over a trade, like swapping a phone for whatever I always want something in return. I just don't go around giving people free phones that I paid for.
> 
> Yes, I'll take the word of the two President's involved in the phone call over bits and pieces of the conversation thrown together to paint a picture of something that never happened. The context and the rest of what said is important. Sure, you can pick out a couple things someone said out of pages of material and tie them together to form something they never said, but that's fabrication ... nothing more than made up lies.
> 
> ...


Was the illegal withholding of the $214 million earmarked to Ukraine taken out of context too?  Most conservatives on this website would've called for Obama's impeachment had he done the same thing.

Indeed, there's nothing wrong with negotiating a trade deal, but when money is withheld as leverage to investigate a political rival, that's not just wrong, but illegal.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 6, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Was the illegal withholding of the $214 million earmarked to Ukraine taken out of context too?  Most conservatives on this website would've called for Obama's impeachment had he done the same thing.
> 
> Indeed, there's nothing wrong with negotiating a trade deal, but when money is withheld as leverage to investigate a political rival, that's not just wrong, but illegal.



Obama had the FBI spy on Trump who was the RNC candidate while you accuse Trump of holding up funds to get dirt on Biden, who wasn't even the candidate, but a potential one at the time. The answer to your statement I would have not supported impeaching Obama due to the fact he won the election and my side couldn't take the loss and move on. The plan was to impeach regardless of guilt.

I also wouldn't have not supported impeaching Obama over a trade deal.  I wasn't the sorts to be suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome either. I respect whomever may be the President of the USA because they earned that title and it's one of the most important positions on Earth and I do so regardless of what their political affiliation is. Obama did good things and bad things and so has Trump.


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## LumInvader (Oct 7, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> *Obama had the FBI spy on Trump* who was the RNC candidate while *you accuse Trump of holding up funds to get dirt on Biden, who wasn't even the candidate*, but a potential one at the time. The answer to your statement I would have not supported impeaching Obama due to the fact he won the election and my side couldn't take the loss and move on. The plan was to impeach regardless of guilt.
> 
> I also wouldn't have not supported impeaching Obama over a trade deal.  I wasn't the sorts to be suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome either. I respect whomever may be the President of the USA because they earned that title and it's one of the most important positions on Earth and I do so regardless of what their political affiliation is. Obama did good things and bad things and so has Trump.


Where do you get your news from?  You're claiming Obama had the FBI spy on Trump (ala Spygate), but this is a widely debunked conspiracy theory:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-spying-trump-campaign/
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-trump-repeats-false-claim-obama-spied-his-c/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...ntial-debate-trump-biden-n1241282/ncrd1241514

Regarding Biden's candidacy:

- Biden announced his 2020 presidential campaign on April 25th, 2019.
- Trump discussed the Bidens in a phone call with Zelensky on July 25, 2019 -- exactly 3 months later to the day.

Thus, Biden was a candidate.  If you meant that Biden wasn't THE candidate as a nod toward Sanders, then you may want to check this out:

During the week leading up to the infamous phone call (Sept. 17-24), polling showed that Biden was Trump's strongest Democratic rival, with an aggregate polling average 8+ points higher than Trump:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natio..._the_2020_United_States_presidential_election

This explains why Trump and his lawyer were so obsessed with Joe Biden in 2019.  Biden was destroying him in head-to-head polls, and now that he's the Democratic nominee in 2020, is still destroying him by the same 8+ points just 4 weeks before the election.


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## Sizednochi (Oct 7, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> This explains why Trump and his lawyer were so obsessed with Joe Biden in 2019.  Biden was destroying him in head-to-head polls, and now that he's the Democratic nominee in 2020, is still destroying him by the same 8+ points just 4 weeks before the election.



We all know that polls lost all the credit they had in 2016 when "Hillary had upwards of 90% chance of winning".

Republicans had internal polling that showed the actual outcome of the election months ahead of election day.


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## x65943 (Oct 7, 2020)

Sizednochi said:


> We all know that polls lost all the credit they had in 2016 when "Hillary had upwards of 90% chance of winning".
> 
> Republicans had internal polling that showed the actual outcome of the election months ahead of election day.


538 put Trump at around 1/3 chance of winning in 2016 - polls that go into projections with good statistical modeling are still good


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## LumInvader (Oct 7, 2020)

Sizednochi said:


> *We all know that polls lost all the credit they had in 2016* when "Hillary had upwards of 90% chance of winning".
> 
> Republicans had internal polling that showed the actual outcome of the election months ahead of election day.


According to fivethirtyeight.com, Hillary had an aggregate 3.6 point lead in the final polling ahead of the 2016 election.  She ultimately lost the election, but still carried the popular vote by 2.1 points -- 1.5 points lower than predicted, but well within the margin of error.

The problem is that Hillary's 3.6 points lead wasn't as insurmountable as some members of the media may have conveyed.  A 3.6 point lead gave her a 71.4% probability to win, whereas a drop to 2.1 would've actually favored Trump, which proved to be true since he won.

With regard to the 2020 election, Trump is facing a candidate who now holds a* 9 point aggregate lead* across hundreds of polls. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

Trump might want to lower that by, say, 5-6 points over the next 4 weeks if he wants to be competitive come election day.  As it stands right now, even if we were to double the 1.5 points Trump gained back on election day 2016, Biden would have a 98% chance to win.  If we tripled them to 4.5, Biden would still have an 89% chance to win.  Hillary's lead was small -- Biden's is currently gargantuan.

My previous discussion on this topic can be found here:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/trump-the-tax-fraudster.574624/page-3#post-9216989


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## Viri (Oct 7, 2020)

UltraSUPRA said:


> View attachment 227271


My dip shit Mayor/Gov did the same thing. Our old people's home got wiped by Cov19. When I check the stats on cases to deaths, my state has less cases but way more deaths, because my dumb ass Mayor/Gov couldn't protect the elderly. I think it's like 8 out of 10 of the old people's home got infected.


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## _abysswalker_ (Oct 7, 2020)

ForgotWhoIam said:


> blah


Begone troll.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Where do you get your news from?  You're claiming Obama had the FBI spy on Trump (ala Spygate), but this is a widely debunked conspiracy theory:
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-spying-trump-campaign/
> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-trump-repeats-false-claim-obama-spied-his-c/
> ...



Biden wasn't the final candidate, he was only a potential candidate. The DNC didn't pick their final candidate for the President until a much later date. Unless Trump is some divine being who can tell the future he had no idea who would win the DNC nomination. Obama had the FBI spy on Trump's campaign. I'm not sure where you're getting your news from, but there have been firings at the FBI over forged FISA warrants and there's an open investigation now that's been all over the news with Barr and crew going after the people responsible for the Russian Collusion Hoax. The same investigation that Trump keeps tweeting about.


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## LumInvader (Oct 7, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Biden wasn't the final candidate, he was only a potential candidate. The DNC didn't pick their final candidate for the President until a much later date. Unless Trump is some divine being who can tell the future he had no idea who would win the DNC nomination. Obama had the FBI spy on Trump's campaign. I'm not sure where you're getting your news from, but there have been firings at the FBI over forged FISA warrants and there's an open investigation now that's been all over the news with Barr and crew going after the people responsible for the Russian Collusion Hoax. The same investigation that Trump keeps tweeting about.


As I already stated, Spygate is a widely debunked conspiracy theory.  Sourcing a right-wing extremist website (thefederalist.com) underscores my point.

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/federalist
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-federalist/

Barr is a Trump loyalist, so the investigation doesn't surprise me.  Liberals are upset with it, but as long as the investigation is conducted fairly, I don't have a problem with it.

Where do I get my news?

For basic news, I stick with the old school AP\Reuters.  I want just the news, not someone telling me how to think, which is why I avoid websites like CNN\Fox News.  I also use aggregators like Yahoo\Google News, which exposes me to a balance of articles from across the political spectrum.  I dig around Google search for everything else.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> As I already stated, Spygate is a widely debunked conspiracy theory.  Sourcing a right-wing extremist website (thefederalist.com) underscores my point.
> 
> https://www.allsides.com/news-source/federalist
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-federalist/
> ...



Trump, Barr and the Conservative Media would beg to differ. They are all currently still pressing the investigation into the FBI and what motivated the agents to fabricate warrants and information. While the investigations are ongoing, it does seem to point to Obama and Hillary. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were responsible for the Russian Collusion Hoax. Guess I'll just have to wait to see the results of the various investigations that are ongoing.

I also wasn't seriously asking where you get your news from, but responding in kind to your original snip at me. Since we're sharing though I get my news from tons of sources. I've got like a full tab of bookmarks and that includes both CNN and FOX, as even if they are biased as fuck they still sometimes do have the correct information posted. It also helps to know what each side is thinking or the bullshit they are trying to pull. Just because a page happens to lean one way doesn't mean everything they post is wrong. You can learn from your enemies you know.


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## LumInvader (Oct 7, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> Trump, Barr and the Conservative Media would beg to differ. They are all currently still pressing the investigation into the FBI and what motivated the agents to fabricate warrants and information. While the investigations are ongoing, it does seem to point to Obama and Hillary. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were responsible for the Russian Collusion Hoax.* Guess I'll just have to wait to see the results of the various investigations that are ongoing.*
> 
> I also wasn't seriously asking where you get your news from, but responding in kind to your original snip at me. Since we're sharing though I get my news from tons of sources. I've got like a full tab of bookmarks and that includes both CNN and FOX, as even if they are biased as fuck they still sometimes do have the correct information posted. It also helps to know what each side is thinking or the bullshit they are trying to pull. Just because a page happens to lean one way doesn't mean everything they post is wrong. You can learn from your enemies you know.


Indeed, we need to wait for the results.  It'll be interesting to see how a November Biden victory would effect the investigations.  I fully expect Biden to fire Barr on his first day.  Of course, that assumes Trump accepts defeat.  On that note, do you expect widespread support among conservatives if Trump refuses to accept election defeat?


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## ov3rkill (Oct 7, 2020)

China will offer him a cure and Trump will lift the ban.


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## gregory-samba (Oct 7, 2020)

LumInvader said:


> Indeed, we need to wait for the results.  It'll be interesting to see how a November Biden victory would effect the investigations.  I fully expect Biden to fire Barr on his first day.  Of course, that assumes Trump accepts defeat.  On that note, do you expect widespread support among conservatives if Trump refuses to accept election defeat?



The only way I could see Conservatives supporting Trump contesting the election is if there's some major revelation of wide spread fraud in the election. Even then I only expect the official/real results will be delayed. I highly doubt Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses because there has never been major proof of enough voter fraud that would sway a Presidential election. I predict all this assumptive behavior on the Liberals part that Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses fairly is all overblown speculation with no basis in reality. We're already being told due to the ballots in the mail being late that we might not get the results for days or weeks after the final voting deadline, but I highly doubt either Joe or Donald will refuse to accept the results.


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## LumInvader (Oct 8, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> *The only way I could see Conservatives supporting Trump contesting the election is if there's some major revelation of wide spread fraud in the election.* Even then I only expect the official/real results will be delayed. I highly doubt Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses because there has never been major proof of enough voter fraud that would sway a Presidential election. I predict all this assumptive behavior on the Liberals part that Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses fairly is all overblown speculation with no basis in reality. We're already being told due to the ballots in the mail being late that we might not get the results for days or weeks after the final voting deadline, but I highly doubt either Joe or Donald will refuse to accept the results.


Well, then this may surprise you.

According to a recent survey conducted by Pew Research Center, nearly half of all Republicans (43%) believe that voter fraud is a major issue compared to 11% among Democrats.  Among Republicans who consider the Trump campaign a major source of news, 61% believe that voter fraud is a major issue.  If Trump loses the upcoming election, which is very likely, I fully expect that 43% figure to nudge past 50%.

But just how extremist are Republican views becoming?

The survey also shows that 41% of Republicans who have heard something about QAnon say it is somewhat or very good for the country.  41%! 

This is precisely why I avoid MSM news sources like CNN\Fox News.  They're brainwashing people into complete morons.

https://www.journalism.org/2020/09/...gent-news-sources-heading-into-2020-election/


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