# CNN Opinion Piece About Being Obese



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

So, I was fat recently. I weighed close to 300 lbs and it wasn't muscle. I had high blood sugar, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and was taking 5 medications just to address the issues. So I decided to start eating healthy and exercising in an attempt to lose weight and after finding the Keto diet and starting to go on 20-30 mile bike rides twice a week I dropped 100 lbs I no longer require the medication and my levels are better than normal. I was never really bothered by what other people thought of my image, but I suppose people notice the change because they are constantly telling me that I look better and I feel better overall - so I guess that's a good thing.

So it sort of makes me sick to my stomach when I came across this opinion piece on CNN that is basically saying that being obese is okay and trying to justify not losing weight due factors like that going to a gym (which isn't required to lose weight) might embarrass you or that actually trying to change your lifestyle would be too hard for the average person. The article is about stores now displaying obese mannequins instead of the normal skinny ones. I'm not sure how long some of you have been around, but when I was growing up people would notice the obese person in the room as they were very rare to come across. Now skinny people are the rarity. While there are some exceptions to being big and healthy (like body builders), simply being fat, eating a poor diet and not exercising isn't healthy and it was literally killing me and will do the same thing to you. I don't see how this article that tries to justify this kind of negative life style and bad choices people are making is in any way helping the situation. 

I agree that being as thin as the normal mannequins is probably an unreachable goal for most people in the past or currently, but being obese and promoting acceptable and tolerance for it is just wrong. I understand that some people have disorders, but most of their disorders are caused by being obese and if you remove that sole factor the disorders are no longer disorders. Only a few rare people have actual physical disorders that make them no be able to lose weight - the rest are simply fat fucking lazy people who don't give a shit about their own body or health and are going to die young and I don't think that this is okay or should be supported just because it makes someone feel bad? How will you feel when you're dead?

Once again, another brilliant CNN article. /s

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/17/opinions/nike-new-mannequins-thomas/index.html


----------



## Ryccardo (Jun 17, 2019)

cots said:


> [...] don't give a shit about their own body or health and are going to die young and I don't think that this is okay or should be supported [...]


I firmly believe any adult*, reasonably informed of the risks, and capable of understanding, should be able to do anything they want with their own person

* quite a bit could be argued on why (the majority of people) get a quite comprehensive set of rights and responsibilities and lose others literally overnight at a fixed age set by their politicians, but that's for another discussion

Now that's a tangential issue too from the one you started on the ethics (which are inherently subjective) of "promoting" being fat (which I intentionally cut out of the quote), but I kinda answered that one too - give everyone access to facts (after giving them a lecture on how science works, namely "fact" really meaning consensus which although extremely improbably could change overnight), even give them access to opinions clearly identifiable as such (I haven't read the article but from the address alone that seems well done, props to your post too), then let them decide for themselves...


----------



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

Ryccardo said:


> I firmly believe any adult*, reasonably informed of the risks, and capable of understanding, should be able to do anything they want with their own person
> 
> * quite a bit could be argued on why (the majority of people) get a quite comprehensive set of rights and responsibilities and lose others literally overnight at a fixed age set by their politicians, but that's for another discussion
> 
> Now that's a tangential issue too from the one you started on the ethics (which are inherently subjective) of "promoting" being fat (which I intentionally cut out of the quote), but I kinda answered that one too - give everyone access to facts (after giving them a lecture on how science works, namely "fact" really meaning consensus which although extremely improbably could change overnight), even give them access to opinions clearly identifiable as such (I haven't read the article but from the address alone that seems well done, props to your post too), then let them decide for themselves...



I agree if you want to be obese than you should be able to be obese. I agree if you want to support an unhealthily life style and promote it by writing articles on a website you should also be able to. I also agree that I should be allowed to point out the fact that's it's unhealthy and going to kill you. I don't see any difference with my suggestions to how to lose weight compared to the CNN article suggestions on why not to lose weight are any different. Both are suggestions - you don't have to read them let alone follow them. If you'd like to live longer and feel better (because it's all about "how you feel", right?) then losing weight is the key, but if you don't want to move and just play video games for 8 hours a day while stuffing you face with comfort food and die young so be it. It's not going to make me stop suggesting that you shouldn't do the latter and it's probably not going to stop this particular CNN author from promoting a destructive lifestyle.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 17, 2019)

cots said:


> I don't see how this article that tries to justify this kind of negative life style and bad choices people are making is in any way helping the situation.



Money, mostly. 

Don't forget, during 200?-2016, there was a campaign to make people eat healthier....but.....you want some McD's at the Orange House? We got hamburders out the ass with pizza-flavored cofeve.

Other than that, good on you for realizing a goal you set.


----------



## Kigiru (Jun 17, 2019)

I mean, there are people that are rude motherfuckers and bully other for being fat, lets don't try to hide it. *BUT* it's actualy people that are glorifying and normalizing the state of being obese that in my opinion are hurting overweight people. There's nothing beautiful, good or right in being obese and IT FUCKING KILLS. People normalizing it are responsible for death of multiple people, they are no better than crazy person with a gun ffs.

Also CNN's opinion is probably least correct and reasonable and it's obvious that more and more people are aware of it, considering their ever-dropping ratings. It's their swan song and they are in panic mode before hitting the ground lol.


----------



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

Kigiru said:


> I mean, there are people that are rude motherfuckers and bully other for being fat, lets don't try to hide it. *BUT* it's actualy people that are glorifying and normalizing the state of being obese that in my opinion are hurting overweight people. There's nothing beautiful, good or right in being obese and IT FUCKING KILLS. People normalizing it are responsible for death of multiple people, they are no better than crazy person with a gun ffs.
> 
> Also CNN's opinion is probably least correct and reasonable and it's obvious that more and more people are aware of it, considering their ever-dropping ratings. It's their swan song and they are in panic mode before hitting the ground lol.



I'm guilty of fat shaming. Not against other people, but myself. I openly admit I was a lazy, fat, ugly, etc ... When I see obese people (which is every time I leave my house) I do a hella lot of fat shaming in my head though. I'm just not the type of person who would start shit with someone over how they look (well, unless they ask me or it's someone that I care about). As for CNN, they post mostly trash and news they call opinion pieces they don't label as opinions (or "Guess what this person said about this person today")? If I want to read gossip I'll stick with those magazines in the grocery store checkout lines.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 17, 2019)

Kigiru said:


> There's nothing beautiful, good or right in being obese









I'd stand strong saying, "Beauty is subjective."

Everyone likes different things, but to say that not-one obese person is beautiful is like saying, "Earth is a shining planet, full of fair, just, and wonderful people who will make you feel so good!"--it sounds awesome, but it's not true.

To be fair, I've seen people lose weight, get fat, act like asses and get praised like a god/dess.

People are people. 


That whole thing about CNN is a little more objective and I'll agree with you. I'd explain why, but that's literally something I have to wait to comment on....for reasons.


----------



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> I'd stand strong saying, "Beauty is subjective."
> 
> Everyone likes different things, but to say that not-one obese person is beautiful is like saying, "Earth is a shining planet, full of fair, just, and wonderful people who will make you feel so good!"--it sounds awesome, but it's not true.
> 
> ...



Yeah, well, I don't find obese people attractive. I understand some people might, but I don't. I see more than just their outward appearance. Sort of like how how people who don't smoke look at or treat people who do smoke. I don't find anything attractive about someone inhaling a substance that is killing them. I understand, because I used to smoke, but as of right now I don't find smokers or obese people attractive. So, maybe, stating "I don't find obese people attractive" instead of "all obese people attractive" would be more appropriate in situations were people can't seem to be able to interpret words and need their hands held to make what you said cover every fucking possibility under the sun (aka, they are up tight nitpickers).

"Dude, you know that suitcase you are carrying has wheels right?"

Maybe I wan't to carry it?


----------



## Kigiru (Jun 17, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> I'd stand strong saying, "Beauty is subjective."
> 
> Everyone likes different things, but to say that not-one obese person is beautiful is like saying, "Earth is a shining planet, full of fair, just, and wonderful people who will make you feel so good!"--it sounds awesome, but it's not true.
> 
> ...



Now the question for you - Is what makes her beautiful is her weight or tons of makeup, tatoos, expensive costume and way too much photoshop? Exactly - without these things she would be just another not so pretty blob, saying that it's her obesity being beautiful is rather misunderstanding. But yeah, it's subjective because even with these things i don't fancy her...


----------



## Clydefrosch (Jun 17, 2019)

You're not everyone. 
Your mileage may vary. 
You seriously have worse problems.


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 17, 2019)

Some people do like round and not skinny... Not saying it's healthy. *because it's definitely not* But... if the person themselves truly believe that they look better fat then let them. It's their body they are putting at risk.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 17, 2019)

cots said:


> Sort of like how how people who don't smoke look at or treat people who do smoke.


Holy fuck! That's a thing? Seriously? Wow....I literally never knew. 





cots said:


> o, maybe, stating "I don't find obese people attractive" instead of "all obese people attractive" would be more appropriate



Oh, you--lost 100 lbs, moved to a new place, and then you treat everyone like shit....how nice.

Errnyway, what you said was a subjective thought--should I hold your hand to show you why you have to watch what you say? If I really wanted to nitpick you, I'd go after your grammar and syntax, but I don't care.

What I do care about, is the feelings others may have towards people you don't find attractive, rather than let your shitty-ass blanket ideas cover the land.--See, that's something I didn't have to do, like 



Spoiler: this






cots said:


> more appropriate in situations were people can't seem to be able to interpret words and need their hands held to make what you said cover every fucking possibility under the sun (aka, they are up tight nitpickers).











Kigiru said:


> Now the question for you



Sorry, bro--none of that really appeals to me. I like people for who they are.
I really,really like no-makeup women--I really dislike fake things and fake people.

Talk to more people outside of "who" "you think" you "should" talk to and you'll realize that there are a multitude of people, of all backgrounds, but generally, there are straight-up pieces of shit, jerks, wanna-bes, cool people, smart-asses, etc,.The important part is: everyone is different.


You know, I wrote a blog titled, _hersona_--read it if you think I made these beliefs up on-the-spot to make you look like shit.








Both of you guys......are odd with respect to life lessons. Remember, the world is funny, and I'm right 99.99%--not because I want to, but because everyone else is so damn stupid. No offense.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 17, 2019)

On the one hand "my body, my rules", same as many other debates.

On the other I have a very big issue with a lot of the fat acceptance stuff, especially the "healthy at every size" variation on the theme. Chat whatever bollocks you like but even more than usual don't be upset when people come down on you hard.

Lines get a bit blurrier with regards to workplace discrimination here -- two otherwise identical people show up and for most things I am involved with, not all of which require physical strength or stamina, I will not pick the fat cunt. I don't see a problem with that one, and could even justify it with regards to work done, sick days taken and so forth. Also happy for workplace initiatives as far as bikes to ride to work, afternoon off to go do some exercise and so forth.

The article in question. Does seem to be a position in search of a justification, and though they do label it an opinion piece that is not a great shield. At one point in the article they mention the current mannequin standard, one that is apparently likely to be too thin to be healthy, and then leap immediately to the average American. If they wanted to ditch the too skinny one and go for a healthy one then that is one thing, however if the average American is overweight then that is a different matter. As much as I detest BMI they say the average US female is 5 3 and 170 pounds (can't visualise either really as it is stupid measurements but I can still look it up on a chart), looking at a BMI chart then that is well into the obese range for that height -- I somehow doubt the US has a hidden crop of muscle bound body building women.


----------



## xenon (Jun 17, 2019)

cots said:


> [..] the rest are simply fat fucking lazy people who don't give a shit about their own body or health [..]


I agree with most of your opinions, but here's where I think you're wrong. Those people are not lazy, they are dopamine addicts. Or, if you prefer, simply addicts - as all addictions seem to be about dopamine dynamics after all. Food becomes the favorite source of "satisfaction" (experts could provide a better definition) and through the vicious circle of addiction, it tends to become the only viable source. Overeating is a behavioral addictions which happens to have obvious, visible consequences - as such it's a strong source of shame, which itself is part of the addiction cycle.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 17, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I somehow doubt the US has a hidden crop of muscle bound body building women.



Yes, you'd be surprised--they even make porno. It's mostly women lifting dudes, but....don't knock it till you try it.




FAST6191 said:


> not all of which require physical strength or stamina, I will not pick the fat cunt.


You might want to--it could be a catalyst for change. Maybe that will be the day they say, "No more! I'm gonna bike 10-20 miles and eat healthy so Fast picks me for dodgeball work."


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 17, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> Yes, you'd be surprised--they even make porno. It's mostly women lifting dudes, but....don't knock it till you try it.
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to--it could be a catalyst for change. Maybe that will be the day they say, "No more! I'm gonna bike 10-20 miles and eat healthy so Fast picks me for dodgeball work."



They could, however it does not seem a great bet to make. Seldom do I see employees gain skills at more than the baseline repetition rate.

As for muscle bound women I know they exist, however enough to influence the average? I have wandered around many states, cities and rural, rich and poor areas, at all times of day and night. Did not see enough to offset things. As for knocking it before I have tried it then that would be poor form. I imagine it would however be more enjoyable than the bag of spanners approach, and almost certainly more than the give it a slap and ride the wave in approach.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 17, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Seldom do I see employees gain skills at more than the baseline repetition rate.



This is a sad fact, but you can't make people change--you can only make them realize they need to change.
-H1B1Esquire



FAST6191 said:


> As for muscle bound women I know they exist, however enough to influence the average?



Soon™. It's still niche, but it's gaining. Check xvideos or other porno sites.


----------



## Delerious (Jun 17, 2019)

There are two different extremes: Fat shaming and fat encouraging. CNN and a lot of other leftist outlets tend to do the second quite a bit these days. People in Western societies didn't get fat overnight, but it did certainly happen fast. Over the course of thousands of years, we've had to work to survive. Now we really only work to pay bills and make our lives more convenient when we're not working, and much of the work out there involves sitting at a desk. It's not necessarily a bad thing that have reached such a point in society, but there are consequences to being physically idle and eating processed and/or greasy food. I realize that for some people, it's harder to lose weight than others (I would know, my family has the same issue). But people who use that as an excuse aren't justifying anything, and calling obesity a beautiful thing does more harm than good, especially given the harmful outcomes to that person's health. Another sad truth is that a lot of poorer families have to resort to whatever's affordable, which is often lacking in any significant nutrition, apart from calories, so kids become obese at a young age as a result, especially when they're not encouraged to go outside and run around or ride their bike.

All said, you shouldn't shame people about it, but encouraging others to be healthy and be the best person they can be also shouldn't be viewed in a negative light. Sadly, we live in a world where expressing any concern about someone's health is now considered "fat shaming", and for the first time in a while, between high depression rates and high obesity, the average lifespan of people in western society is actually going down. In the end though, it all comes to people's life choices the moment they become adults.

Maybe Bill Burr has the right idea about letting dogs go un-neutered and un-fixed. More wild dogs in the streets chasing people would be good for all of us - encourage us to run a lot more anyway.


----------



## kuwanger (Jun 17, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> though they do label it an opinion piece that is not a great shield. At one point in the article they mention the current mannequin standard, one that is apparently likely to be too thin to be healthy, and then leap immediately to the average American.



This is basically my problem with it.  People have an opinion?  Sure.  People push hard that opinion on others, like demanding others accept them as they are?  Uh, yea, that doesn't always work.  I don't accept serial killers "as they are".  Same with using "the average American" as a basis for anything.  When did it become the ideal of America to strive for "average" or use "average" to justify things?  Either you're a healthy weight or you're not.  Either the mannequins are displaying an unhealthy weight (over or under weight) or they're not.  At least with the mannequins I'd buy the idea that one should display an unhealthy weight for some because that's what many customers are like, but that's not really an argument of accepting the overweight as much as spelling out that overweight people buy clothes too.

Really, this reminds me of just how much the story of Hunter McGrady was pushed and totally missed the point.



monkeyman4412 said:


> Some people do like round and not skinny...



Yea, most men like "round".  "Round" != overweight.  As just invoked above, it's normal that most women have wider hips.  Having a roundness that inherently disqualifies you from modeling is insane.  That doesn't mean any weight is healthy or attractive.  It does mean that an attractive weight is one that considers a certain amount of roundness that conforms to each person.  That's a large part of the reason "healthy" weight is actually a pretty bit range.  Yes, some few people will be overweight because of specific reasons that aren't unhealthy, but it's very rare--invoking the incredibly tiny number of people who engage in professional sports is the exact opposite of invoking "average American".

Of course at its core, most people aren't models.  They shouldn't be worrying so much about being attractive or not.  They should be worried about health.  They shouldn't be worried if the mannequins never well represent how the clothes on them.  Yes, that's definitely an opinion too, but it's also an opinion that one should strive to not suffer an early death or the strains of being overweight.  It's not an opinion, though, that an unhealthy weight does very often lead to those things, the latter of quick with a much lower quality of life for many by mere fact of carrying around and dealing with that excess bulk.  No amount of societal acceptance will fix that.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 17, 2019)

Well, firstly, it's an opinion piece, you don't have to agree with it.  Secondly, I struggle to see the relevance of this in relation to 'world news, current events and politics.'  At best this seems to be self-congratulatory, at worst it seems to be thinly-veiled fat shaming.  Losing weight is not incredibly hard, but keeping yourself from gaining it back can be.  Keep that in mind.


----------



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

xenon said:


> I agree with most of your opinions, but here's where I think you're wrong. Those people are not lazy, they are dopamine addicts. Or, if you prefer, simply addicts - as all addictions seem to be about dopamine dynamics after all. Food becomes the favorite source of "satisfaction" (experts could provide a better definition) and through the vicious circle of addiction, it tends to become the only viable source. Overeating is a behavioral addictions which happens to have obvious, visible consequences - as such it's a strong source of shame, which itself is part of the addiction cycle.



Overeating isn't the only cause of obesity. Some people just have poor diets and don't exercise. I had a friend who was overweight, who only ate like twice a day, but his choice in food were lousy and he would spend most of his time playing video games.


----------



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

Delerious said:


> Another sad truth is that a lot of poorer families have to resort to whatever's affordable, which is often lacking in any significant nutrition, apart from calories, so kids become obese at a young age as a result, especially when they're not encouraged to go outside and run around or ride their bike.



Considering the average amount of nutrition assistance is far less than what it actually costs to buy the type of food the same people who are giving you the money say to eat I understand the poor aspect. It's really hard to buy fresh produce and healthy meats when 1 meal takes away a large percentage of the money they give you compared to buying ultra-processed junk. Heck, that's if you have an actual kitchen to cook the food in. I understand that the assistance is meant as a stop gap while you try to better your financial situation, but that's rarely the case with people who are poor as most of them are poor for life(tm). If you're not receiving any assistance at all it's even harder to eat properly when you're just eating whatever you can to stay alive. I understand too that it's the parents fault for not encouraging their children to be physically active, but what type of example are they setting by spending hours updating their facebook status or when in public doing nothing, but staring at their expensive phone? I don't care if it's a social norm as there are things as harmful social norms.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



H1B1Esquire said:


> Oh, you--lost 100 lbs, moved to a new place, and then you treat everyone like shit....how nice.



I don't think I'm treating anyone like shit as how I treat people hasn't changed or been influenced by any sort of recent events in my life (which I lost the weight over a year ago), but thanks for paying attention. I treat others based on how I would like to be treated and think I'm a lot more respectful than some other people. I just don't pander to snowflakes so they won't go all bat shit crazy when they encounter the slightest form of criticism or something that isn't politically correct for them. I don't go up to people and tell them they insulted me by having a conversation about something that I wasn't involved due to the fact that the subject matter offended them or start calling people names in public due to the fact I disagree with their opinions. I mind my own damn business.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Well, firstly, it's an opinion piece, you don't have to agree with it.  Secondly, I struggle to see the relevance of this in relation to 'world news, current events and politics.'  At best this seems to be self-congratulatory, at worst it seems to be thinly-veiled fat shaming.  Losing weight is not incredibly hard, but keeping yourself from gaining it back can be.  Keep that in mind.



The article I referenced was posted on the front page of a political news website, so clearly it has nothing to do with current events or politics, correct? You're correct about losing the weight, it wasn't that difficult, the keto diet is dead simple. The article is justifying not even trying to begin with let alone addressing the second issue - keeping it off. I wonder what type of excuses the author would present to not stick to your diet?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 17, 2019)

I tend to agree, if someone is personally OK with being unhealthy and overweight, that is their choice and they're free to pursue that life, but they should not maintain to others that their lifestyle is in their best interest or one that can't be changed.  People just want to excuse away the effort it takes to maintain a healthy life, because that requires extra work, and work is harder than doing nothing.  I'm not saying we should fat shame people, but we definitely shouldn't be telling our children that growing up to be fat is OK (conversely we shouldn't make them believe they need to be skinny as a rail either, there is large spectrum here, and really maintaining a healthy BMI is what our children should be taught and understood at a young age), nor should we be feeding them fast food and the like on a regular basis.  Healthy living starts with yourself, but as a child, you're kinda at the mercy of your parents for awhile, and they too share a responsibility up to a point for how your body turns out in this regard.


----------



## cots (Jun 17, 2019)

Xzi said:


> At best this seems to be self-congratulatory, at worst it seems to be thinly-veiled fat shaming.



So let me guess, next on the agenda is to include simply thinking that being obsese is fat shaming to try to justify not having to take any sort of responsibility for yourself?


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 17, 2019)

cots said:


> thanks for paying attention.


You're welcome.




cots said:


> I treat others based on how I would like to be treated and think I'm a lot more respectful than some other people.





cots said:


> *I'm guilty of fat shaming. Not against other people, but myself. I openly admit I was a lazy, fat, ugly, etc ... When I see obese people (which is every time I leave my house) I do a hella lot of fat shaming in my head though. I'm just not the type of person who would start shit with someone over how they look*



I dunno, man; life is brief.....maybe now you'll lead by example and get others to eat healthy and make "positive" lifestyle choices?

If not, then it was a sneaky approach at giving yourself a trophy for the thread--I'm indifferent to the why.

I'd like to know how you do in the next few weeks.

Enjoy my YT recs for ASMR


that's actually a funny mindfuck--get an obese girlfriend who wants to work on getting healthy and motivates you _or_ get a girlfriend who will keep you fat and makes horrible choices, everyday.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> The article I referenced was posted on the front page of a political news website, so clearly it has nothing to do with current events or politics, correct?


Correct, not everything they post on CNN's website is about current events or politics.  Especially when it comes to opinion pieces.  It's literally just someone's opinion, probably not even a writer on their staff.  Use your head.



cots said:


> So let me guess, next on the agenda is to include thinking that being obsese is fat shaming to try to justify not having to take any sort of responsibility for yourself?


There is no 'agenda.'  Again I simply don't see the purpose of this post, it's like you're combing the web just to find things to be offended about.  You don't see me posting about every blatantly stupid opinion piece on Fox News, now do you?


----------



## Harumyne (Jun 18, 2019)

Anything that makes more money is good, buy that burger, order those pizzas, do what you want with your life, it's yours.

Yes the government is pushing new stereotypes and reinforcing those which are profitable.

On topic: 

Being obese is like being a drug addict, drug addicts enjoy the effects of the drugs they take and live out the side effects they bring about.

I would wish it not on anybody to feel the way the fat presses down on the lungs and makes breathing a constant labor.

Neither the shooting pains that run from your heart down the arteries of your right arm and legs.

Not to mention the cancer you're likely going to get.

Each to their own tho, orz.

Live fat die young.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> There is no 'agenda.'  Again *I simply don't see the purpose of this post,* it's like you're combing the web just to find things to be offended about.  You don't see me posting about every blatantly stupid opinion piece on Fox News, now do you?



I get it, this is far from the first piece posted on a news website trying to tell the reader that it's OK to be overweight, and it's nothing to be ashamed about, and should be celebrated, etc. etc.  Like it's great if an obese person is happy with their body image, but they definitely shouldn't get so caught up with their own self-image that they feel the need to try and make the way they see themselves the way that everyone should see all obese people.  Simply put, the lifestyle isn't healthy, and such puff pieces should not be spread around online like some sort of gospel and certainly not promoted by what are supposed to be credible news organizations, opinion piece or otherwise.  I'm not saying let's make fat little Billy or fat little Jenny feel bad for their lifestyle, but they shouldn't be reading things or getting told things that give them the impressions that their current path in life is in their best interest (again conversely though, they also shouldn't be getting fed the idea that being skinny as a toothpick is in their best interest either), what CNN and the like should be reporting and promoting, more often at that, are the benefits of living a healthy life and maintaining a healthy BMI, and the various ways that one can do so.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> I get it, this is far from the first piece posted on a news website trying to tell the reader that it's OK to be overweight, and it's nothing to be ashamed about, and should be celebrated, etc. etc.  Like it's great if an obese person is happy with their body image, but they definitely shouldn't get so caught up with their own self-image that they feel the need to try and make the way they see themselves the way that everyone should see all obese people.  Simply put, the lifestyle isn't healthy, and such puff pieces should not be spread around online like some sort of gospel and certainly not promoted by what are supposed to be credible news organizations, opinion piece or otherwise.  I'm not saying let's make fat little Billy or fat little Jenny feel bad for their lifestyle, but they shouldn't be reading things or getting told things that give them the impressions that their current path in life is in their best interest (again conversely though, they also shouldn't be getting fed the idea that being skinny as a toothpick is in their best interest either), what CNN and the like should be reporting and promoting, more often at that, are the benefits of living a healthy life and maintaining a healthy BMI, and the various ways that one can do so.


So it's a rant about how some fat people think it's okay to stay fat.  Still seems like EOF material to me.  Americans have been fat for decades, so this isn't a "current event," it's not news to anybody, and it has nothing to do with politics.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> So it's a rant about how some fat people think it's okay to stay fat.  Still seems like EOF material to me.  Americans have been fat for decades, so this isn't a "current event," it's not news to anybody, and it has nothing to do with politics.



Nah, again, I'd say its a rant against pieces like this in general, especially appearing on what are supposed to be credible news sites.  Like I said this is far from the first to appear on a site like CNN and in America where obesity is already a large problem, the last thing impressionable kids should be seeing and hearing from what are supposedly trustworthy sources is that living such an unhealthy lifestyle isn't just OK, but should be celebrated.  Yes, they may be opinion pieces, but many younger readers and viewers wont pick up on that.  I definitely believe this is something that should be addressed and spoken out about.  You're zeroing in on this one article as if it's a needle in a haystack, and I wish that were true, but really pieces like this are way too commonplace in American media.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Nah, again, I'd say its a rant against pieces like this in general, especially appearing on what are supposed to be credible news sites.


I'm not picking up on that vibe at all.  The title and content of the post would have to be completely different.



MikaDubbz said:


> Yes, they may be opinion pieces, but many younger readers and viewers wont pick up on that.


And exactly how many children do you think take time out of their day to read CNN articles of any kind, let alone opinion pieces?  Not quite their target audience, and AFAIK CNN doesn't advertise inside of Fortnite.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I'm not picking up on that vibe at all.  The title and content of the post would have to be completely different.
> 
> And exactly how many children do you think take time out of their day to read CNN articles of any kind, let alone opinion pieces?  Not exactly their target audience, and AFAIK CNN doesn't advertise inside of Fortnite.



Back in middle school, around 11 and 12 years old every day in social studies we'd start out the class by reading the paper (we'd each grab a paper and read an article of our choosing to ourselves independently), any part of the paper aside from the comics and puzzles, and then different kids would tell the class what they had read and what that means for the town, state, world, etc. etc.  If you're in even a decent school system that promotes the importance of current events, then a fair amount of children will definitely read the likes of this, more than I think you're imagining.


----------



## Chary (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> and it has nothing to do with politics.













I don't think this is so offbase that it belongs in the EOF, because it can at least garner some conversation and thought from members, and at least it isn't the 904th "is abortion bad or good" thread.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 18, 2019)

Chary said:


> 904th "is abortion bad or good" thread.


905th was a good read, 911th was an inside jerb.

Anyhow, maybe general off-topic would be a better solution?


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

Chary said:


> I don't think this is so offbase that it belongs in the EOF, because it can at least garner some conversation and thought from members, and at least it isn't the 904th "is abortion bad or good" thread.


It's definitely social commentary, but I don't see the political aspect of this regardless of how CNN (mis)labeled it.  Fat people aren't strictly liberal or conservative.


----------



## Cylent1 (Jun 18, 2019)

CNN is the most UnTrusted name in the news network! They have all become racist conspiracy theory opinionist's!
They will tell you that is not a cheeseburger you are eating, when you know damn well it is!
And then they get mad and call you a racist and a Nazi for believing otherwise.  And to top it all off, the rest of the other so called news stations will agree with them just because it fits their narrative!
And if anybody believes any different, you are part of the problem!


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Back in middle school, around 11 and 12 years old every day in social studies we'd start out the class by reading the paper (we'd each grab a paper and read an article of our choosing to ourselves independently), any part of the paper aside from the comics and puzzles, and then different kids would tell the class what they had read and what that means for the town, state, world, etc. etc.  If you're in even a decent school system that promotes the importance of current events, then a fair amount of children will definitely read the likes of this, more than I think you're imagining.


If it's relevant to current events, absolutely.  A good social studies teacher isn't going to let you get away with reading from the 'style' or 'for sale' sections, though, and I think the same discretion would apply here.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> If it's relevant to current events, absolutely.  A good teacher isn't going to let you get away with reading from the 'style' or 'for sale' sections, though, and I think the same discretion would apply here.



Opinion pieces can definitely be relative to current events, obesity is a problem in America that isn't going away, making it an ongoing current event much like the homeless problem, so it can be beneficial to find opinion pieces on how to deal with such issues, some people can really be insightful and help us think in ways not often considered.  But its a double-edged sword, for any great opinion piece there can be 10 pieces of garbage like this.  So hell, I'm not even saying kill the idea of opinion pieces altogether, just that they need a way better filter in regard to what gets published or not.  Stuff like this isn't beneficial to anyone, and as such should not be published by any news organization's opinion sections, yet time and again they do, and sometimes even venture into actual news sections and not strictly stuck in the opinion section.  So again, I think this kind of stuff absolutely should be called out on.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 18, 2019)

Cylent1 said:


> CNN is the most UnTrusted name in the news network! They have all become racist conspiracy theory opinionist's!
> They will tell you that is not a cheeseburger you are eating, when you know damn well it is!




Cheeseburgers don't exist; it's a burger with cheese.

Anyhow, yes, welcome to "what it is".
Fox and friends is the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen and if it weren't for Ann Coulter, I'd just call it, "Hannity Sucks Dick for an Hour".

The best news source I've come across is tied between_ NHK and BBC *world*_--straight to the point, minus the "this is what I think and so should you"-bullshit.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Opinion pieces can definitely be relative to current events, obesity is a problem in America that isn't going away, making it an ongoing current event much like the homeless problem, so it can be beneficial to find opinion pieces on how to deal with such issues, some people can really be insightful and help us think in ways not often considered.  But its a double-edged sword, for any great opinion piece there can be 10 pieces of garbage like this.  So hell, I'm not even saying kill the idea of opinion pieces altogether, just that they need a way better filter in regard to what gets published or not.  Stuff like this isn't beneficial to anyone, and as such should not be published by any news organization's opinion sections, yet time and again they do, and sometimes even venture into actual news sections and not strictly stuck in the opinion section.  So again, I think this kind of stuff absolutely should be called out on.


If opinion pieces had to be thoroughly vetted and fact-checked, they wouldn't be opinion pieces any more.  Besides, you can just as easily get a piece published with a contrary opinion.  Ultimately the point I'm trying to get across is that I don't think we need a new thread every time somebody finds an opinion on the internet they disagree with, it would quickly become a mess.  We should try to stick to subjects that are objectively newsworthy in this subforum.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> If opinion pieces had to be thoroughly vetted and fact-checked, they wouldn't be opinion pieces any more.  Besides, you can just as easily get a piece published with a contrary opinion.  Ultimately the point I'm trying to get across is that I don't think we need a new thread every time somebody finds an opinion on the internet they disagree with.  We should try to stick to subjects that are objectively newsworthy in this subforum.



Not vetted, they just need a better filter for what they publish in that section or not, they clearly have some sort of filter, as not just any opinion piece gets published.  They just need to say no to more stories, and if their site isn't as full as it can be, so be it, god forbid these sites don't get those precious clicks and ad revenue.  And yes, a contrary piece can get published, but this is a case where any piece not to the contrary simply shouldn't be published at all.  Simple as that.  If you (the royal you, not you you) think being obese is good or OK, that's great, but keep those thoughts to yourself because you're delusional, and CNN and other news organizations: do better, say no to garbage like this.  That's ultimately what my point that I'm trying to get across is.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> do better, say no to garbage like this. That's ultimately what my point that I'm trying to get across is.



They can't.

They literally can't. It's a long story, but.....basically, the "clicks" they get are from......."the new generation"....and they are really hard to work with.  It's "easier" to appeal to them and their "needs".

Anyhow, everything will be worked out Soon™.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> And yes, a contrary piece can get published, but this is a case where any piece not to the contrary simply shouldn't be published at all.


Why not?  Just because you have a different opinion?  Even CNN's editor might have a different opinion, but a good editor isn't going to censor someone else for that reason alone.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Why not?



In so many word(s): money and money.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> In so many word(s): money and money.


I don't think opinion pieces are the bread and butter of any news organization.  Then again, print news in general isn't doing so hot these days.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Why not?  Just because you have a different opinion?  Even CNN's editor might have a different opinion, but a good editor isn't going to censor someone else for that reason alone.



Because it's an opinion piece that benefits no one.  It helps create and spread the idea that being obese is an alright way to live, should be celebrated, and anyone telling you otherwise should be ignored.  Might as well be an opinion piece trying to sell you on the idea to not vaccinate your kids or that the earth is flat.  Like I get it, those idiots are out there, but shame on any supposedly reputable news organization that actually even entertains such opinion pieces.  And I wouldn't be shocked if the likes of CNN has published opinion pieces on that nonsense as well, but again, this is where better filters should be put in place, that is if these organizations wish to continue to be considered reputable in any way.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I don't think opinion pieces are the bread and butter of any news organization.  Then again, print news in general isn't doing so hot these days.



Agreed--news is in a weird position.

I kind of want to blame AOC for this, but I also want to DFK her after a 110°F shower...I'm so torn. 

Seriously, this is.......the world we live in. Everyone has this weird mentality and I'm just trying to figure it all out, day-by-day. 

Truthfully, this thread was a good time waster, but if you've ever seen 



Spoiler: Relaxer







; same time spent with the same results.

I don't know, but it helps draw some lines--maybe you'll all see what this is about, in a deeper sense, a much deeper sense.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Because it's an opinion piece that benefits no one.


And an opinion piece that says, "get off your fat ass and go for a jog" is somehow beneficial?  I think people should be comfortable in their own bodies, and that's going to mean different things for different individuals.

I know one guy with a little bit of influence that would certainly agree with the idea that it's okay to be fat:


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> There is no 'agenda.'  Again I simply don't see the purpose of this post, it's like you're combing the web just to find things to be offended about.  You don't see me posting about every blatantly stupid opinion piece on Fox News, now do you?



Nope, you mainly post about every move Trump makes that offends you. At least I'm presenting a variety of topics.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> Nope, you mainly post about every move Trump makes that offends you. At least I'm presenting a variety of topics.


The president breaking the law and violating the constitution is very much within the realm of both politics and current events.  Finding excuses to rant about why you hate this group or that group of people, not so much.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> The best news source I've come across is tied between_ NHK and BBC *world*_--straight to the point, minus the "this is what I think and so should you"-bullshit.




I really enjoy reading BBC, including the "Why you can trust us" page and related material on what they consider proper journalism. CNN or Fox could learn a lesson or two from them if they ever want to consider themselves as a news outlets instead of entertainment companies seeking a profit.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> I really enjoy reading BBC, including the "Why you can trust us" page and related material on what they consider proper journalism. CNN or Fox could learn a lesson or two from them if they ever want to consider themselves as a news outlets instead of entertainment companies seeking a profit.


I agree.  BBC has opinion pieces too, however.  And you're very unlikely to agree with all of them.

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170525-opinion-getting-rich-has-more-to-do-with-luck-than-talent


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The president breaking the law and violating the constitution is very much within the realm of both politics and current events.  Finding excuses to rant about why you hate this group or that group of people, not so much.



So, that justifies doing the same thing you accuse me of? If you dislike that I'm posting about things I disagree with maybe the next topic I create will be about something I agree with. I don't see the point in addressing if this topic is valid or not as a moderator already decided on that. It would be okay though, if I were simply bashing Fox and talking crap about our President. Sorry that I don't follow that group of lemmings.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> So, that justifies doing the same thing you accuse me of?


I accused you of posting an opinion piece that has nothing to do with current events, politics, or world news.  I've not done that here once.



cots said:


> If you dislike that I'm posting about things I disagree with maybe the next topic I create will be about something I agree with.


That's not the issue.  I'm all in favor of you posting an actual news article from CNN that you don't like for one reason or another.  Opinion pieces, however, are much too close to tabloid-esque garbage for my tastes.  You don't have to pluck it just because it's low-hanging fruit.  Feel me?


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Because it's an opinion piece that benefits no one.  It helps create and spread the idea that being obese is an alright way to live, should be celebrated, and anyone telling you otherwise should be ignored.  Might as well be an opinion piece trying to sell you on the idea to not vaccinate your kids or that the earth is flat.  Like I get it, those idiots are out there, but shame on any supposedly reputable news organization that actually even entertains such opinion pieces.  And I wouldn't be shocked if the likes of CNN has published opinion pieces on that nonsense as well, but again, this is where better filters should be put in place, that is if these organizations wish to continue to be considered reputable in any way.



CNN's reporting quality is pretty much common knowledge to anyone that follows politics. They are slanted to one side and their daily headlines include "What this person said about this person" with half of the article repeating what they've already posted in 100 other "Guess what this person did today" tabloid style posts. I'm not attacking CNN in particular, that's not needed. They do that to themselves. I'm trying to focus on the entire fact that it's suddenly okay to promote acceptance of being obese. I don't take polls, but I'm pretty sure that fat cells don't care who you voted for.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> And an opinion piece that says, "get off your fat ass and go for a jog" is somehow beneficial?  I think people should be comfortable in their own bodies, and that's going to mean different things for different individuals.
> 
> I know one guy with a little bit of influence that would certainly agree with the idea that it's okay to be fat:



Frankly opinion pieces in general about how one should exercise are pointless.  This shit should be common knowledge, not debatable opinions.  There certainly should be actual news pieces that explain the benefits of healthy living for everyone, what a healthy BMI is, and why everyone should strive for one, and sure, acknowledge activities one can do to maintain the healthy lifestyle, but that too should be pretty common knowledge: eat healthy and exercise regularly.  There isn't some secret here that makes being obese a healthy option, this isn't some grey area where we should accept everyone for who they are, this is about living a healthy life that will help you avoid medical problems in the future and live a more fulfilling life.  If you're obese and are trying to look for excuses to make that OK to more likely than not bring on medical problems in the future and make for a less fulfilling life, then by all means live that life, but don't you dare try to push that onto other people as if that's something to even be seriously considered for a second. You can ask me to not judge you for being overweight, but I have every reason to judge you for being so if you aren't even trying to combat and are actively trying to further live that life.  Might as well be trying to argue the merits of Russian Roulette, these aren't things we should be entertaining in our news outlets.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Frankly opinion pieces in general about how one should exercise are pointless.


You seem to think opinion pieces in general are pointless, and that's fine.  Nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you read them.  Reading them with the goal of finding something to be outraged about is a particularly pointless exercise in futility, thus the reason I think this thread was unnecessary.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Frankly opinion pieces in general about how one should exercise are pointless.  This shit should be common knowledge, not debatable opinions.  There certainly should be actual news pieces that explain the benefits of healthy living for everyone, what a healthy BMI is, and why everyone should strive for one, and sure, acknowledge activities one can do to maintain the healthy lifestyle, but that too should be pretty common knowledge: eat healthy and exercise regularly.  There isn't some secret here that makes being obese a healthy option, this isn't some grey area where we should accept everyone for who they are, this is about living a healthy life that will help you avoid medical problems in the future and live a more fulfilling life.  If you're obese and are trying to look for excuses to make that OK to more likely than not bring on medical problems in the future and make for a less fulfilling life, then by all means live that life, but don't you dare try to push that onto other people as if that's something to even be seriously considered for a second. You can ask me to not judge you for being overweight, but I have every reason to judge you for being so if you aren't even trying to combat and are actively trying to further live that life.  Might as well be trying to argue the merits of Russian Roulette, these aren't things we should be entertaining in our news outlets.



To be fair some people don't get the greatest education so what is considered a healthy diet, what the suggested BMI, etc ... might not have been taught to them, but I agree that the media should be talking about healthy living and about these things instead of promoting the opposite because they consider their audience to be stupid and want to make sure they don't hurt their feelings. I like to think that people in general aren't stupid and some people say I'm dumb for thinking like that, but that only goes to show that sort of thought process is creating a destructive cycle. "People are stupid, don't want to learn and are going to end up obese so we should just adjust the way we entertain them so we can still profit" doesn't fly with me.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> You seem to think opinion pieces in general are pointless, and that's fine.  Nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you read them.  Reading them with the goal of finding something to be outraged about is a particularly pointless exercise in futility, thus the reason I think this thread was unnecessary.



No, you're not getting it.  I think opinion pieces on things that are objective facts are a cancer on the news industry and dumbs it all down and makes it all less reputable.  An opinion piece on how the Earth is flat, should not be published by any organization attempting to portray themselves as reputable, because its common knowledge that it isn't, it is factually true and accepted that the Earth is a sphere, and the people trying to argue otherwise are clearly idiots that should not be entertained.  Let those opinion pieces get pushed to the edge of the internet where awful opinions can go to rot like Buzzfeed or the National Enquirer.  If however you want to run an opinion piece on the benefits of Communism, then by all means, please fill up the Opinion sections with pieces like that.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Reading them with the goal of finding something to be outraged about is a particularly pointless exercise in futility, thus the reason I think this thread was unnecessary.



That's assuming I was scouring the Internet webs in hope to find something to be outraged about. That's not the case.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> That's assuming I was scouring the Internet webs in hope to find something to be outraged about. That's not the case.



Yeah I totally get that, I see pieces like this far too often in various news outlets across the country.  This shit shouldn't be up for debate, being obese is unhealthy, and no one should be looking for (or giving out) excuses to maintain that kind of lifestyle.  End of story.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I accused you of posting an opinion piece that has nothing to do with current events, politics, or world news.  I've not done that here once.



No, you just post stuff like "Guess what someone told someone else over the phone". Quality stuff right there.

Obesity is a current event (when I was growing up it wasn't a big issue) and the opinion piece was posted under the Political section on a website for a major self proclaimed news organization. Clearly, posting about global warming isn't a current event because it's been happening "for decades" and we should all stick to posting gossip related to bashing the president. How about addressing the subject matter instead of trying to discredit the way it was delivered.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Obesity is absolutely a problem that continues to be a current event in America, just because it isn't new and has been ongoing for years doesn't make it any less of a current event.  Again, just like the homeless problem, it is a current event that persists.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> I think opinion pieces on things that are objective facts are a cancer on the news industry and dumbs it all down and makes it all less reputable.


This isn't about objective fact, and it's not a black and white issue.  Fat people don't have to be stupid or uneducated to be comfortable in their bodies, most of them are fully aware of the detrimental effects on their health.  And who are you to tell them they have to be angry or disappointed with themselves?  Unless taken to an extreme, over-eating certainly won't kill you faster than alcohol or tobacco vaping, both of which continue to be glorified in our society.



cots said:


> No, you just post stuff like "Guess what someone told someone else over the phone".


Now you're just being reductionist out of spite, and you know it.  It wasn't a phone call, it was a letter, and it was between the Special Counsel and the United States Attorney General.  Not two random nobodies.  Again very much relevant to the topic of politics.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Obesity is absolutely a problem that continues to be a current event in America, just because it isn't new and has been ongoing for years doesn't make it any less of a current event.  Again, just like the homeless problem, it is a current event that persists.



"In 1990, obese adults made up less than 15 percent of the population in most U.S. states. By 2010, 36 states had obesity rates of 25 percent or higher, and 12 of those had obesity rates of 30 percent or higher" [Source]. I'd say if we solved the current epidemic back in the 50's it wouldn't be considered current news. Two of out 3 people are overweight. Why not try to focus on how to address and solve the problem instead of try to promote it as being normal and okay?


----------



## kuwanger (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> It's literally just someone's opinion, probably not even a writer on their staff.



Yet CNN chose to publish it.  That alone is, if not an endorsement of the piece at least an endorsement of discussion about the piece.  I doubt CNN would be so willing to publish an opinion I wrote.



Xzi said:


> don't see the political aspect of this regardless of how CNN (mis)labeled it. Fat people aren't strictly liberal or conservative.



Politics aren't strictly liberal or conservative.  There's clearly a political agenda by many to normalize obesity.  That political agenda may be a small, fringe group, but they definitely exist.  No doubt, that's part of why CNN put it on their website which, as noted, was probably the click-bait nature of it to drawn in money.  More specifically, mannequins go hand-in-hand with models, and plus-size models are very much a current events thing.  Does it rise to the level of news?  Probably no more than a lot of other news articles which are 10% news and 90% speculation and opinion.



Xzi said:


> I don't think opinion pieces are the bread and butter of any news organization.



News organization?  Maybe not.  CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News?  Absolutely.  Covering 24/7 with actual news is hard.  Dragging in 5 people with polar opposite opinions and letting them shout at each other Jerry Springer style is cheap.  Consider that local news (~2.5/day, 6 days/week) only represents ~9% of that 24/7 cycle.  And local news is often heavily padded with weather + sports + repeating content earlier reported in the day.  Now imagine if any one of the three cable news channels actually spent a considerable amount of resources collection information on and reporting news in the world without every "breaking story" being 10 minutes of news and 1 hour before and after of speculation.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> This isn't about objective fact, and it's not a black and white issue.  Fat people don't have to be stupid or uneducated to be comfortable in their bodies, most of them are fully aware of the detrimental effects on their health.  And who are you to tell them they have to be angry or disappointed with themselves?  Unless taken to an extreme, over-eating certainly won't kill you faster than alcohol or tobacco vaping, both of which continue to be glorified in our society.



I'm not saying fat people are stupid or uneducated at all.  I'm saying that pieces like this shouldn't be promoted on News sites because it is an objective fact that being obese isn't healthy.  Now you can live that way if you want, by all means, that is fine.  I'm not telling them to be angry or disappointed in themselves, I'm just saying don't lie to yourselves and especially others by reading and eating up such pieces that promote being obese as if it is a healthy way to live, when it simply objectively isn't.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



cots said:


> "In 1990, obese adults made up less than 15 percent of the population in most U.S. states. By 2010, 36 states had obesity rates of 25 percent or higher, and 12 of those had obesity rates of 30 percent or higher" [Source]. I'd say if we solved the current epidemic back in the 50's it wouldn't be considered current news. Two of out 3 people are overweight. Why not try to focus on how to address and solve the problem instead of try to promote it as being normal and okay?



Why are you quoting this to me, I totally agree with you that it's a current event and isn't normal and shouldn't be considered OK, I've been saying as much this whole time.  It's also been a current event for some years that is only getting worse as time goes on... which is exactly what you are saying here...


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> Why not try to focus on how to address and solve the problem instead of try to promote it as being normal and okay?


I seem to remember a particular first lady who tried to tackle the issue of childhood obesity head on.  She probably could've gotten a lot more done on that front if the other party didn't treat the issue like a political football.



MikaDubbz said:


> I'm saying that pieces like this shouldn't be promoted on News sites because it is an objective fact that being obese isn't healthy.


Opinion pieces don't get front page promotion, or much of any promotion at all.  You have to seek out the opinion section or Google a specific headline from it.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Opinion pieces don't get front page promotion, or much of any promotion at all.  You have to seek out the opinion section or Google a specific headline from it.



You literally scroll down on the front page and there is the Opinion section with a big headline right next to the Sports section, and bizarrely, above the World and US sections (On CNN anyway).


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> You literally scroll down on the front page and there is the Opinion section with a big headline right next to the Sports section, and bizarrely, above the World and US sections. (On CNN anyway)


That's the way websites work, scrolling down is the equivalent of flipping the page.  I count nine sections in front of their opinion section.



MikaDubbz said:


> I'm just saying don't lie to yourselves and especially others by reading and eating up such pieces that promote being obese as if it is a healthy way to live, when it simply objectively isn't.


The article doesn't say anywhere that obesity is good for your health.  The closest I can find to that is, "a fat person who exercises can be healthier than a slim person who does not, and exercise can counterbalance risks -- such as cardiovascular disease -- normally associated with being overweight."  There's nothing incorrect about that statement.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> That's the way websites work, scrolling down is the equivalent of flipping the page.  I count nine sections in front of their opinion section.


Oh brother  that's all I gotta say to that.  



Xzi said:


> The article doesn't say anywhere that obesity is good for your health.  The closest I can find to that is, "a fat person who exercises can be healthier than a slim person who does not, and exercise can counterbalance risks -- such as cardiovascular disease -- normally associated with being overweight."  There's nothing incorrect about that statement.



I'm not attacking this opinion piece specifically, like I said this is but one of many, and so many of them go on and on about how one should celebrate their obesity, not be ashamed about it, not be too concerned about it being unhealthy, etc. etc.  We need to stop dressing this shit up and just acknowledge it for what it is: unhealthy.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

MikaDubbz said:


> Oh brother  that's all I gotta say to that.


I don't know what you expect, this isn't the 90s any more, website design is far more streamlined than it used to be.  Everything is on one page, that doesn't mean it's all on the front.



MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not attacking this opinion piece specifically, like I said this is but one of many, and so many of them go on and on about how one should celebrate their obesity


I doubt you have any specific examples of an article directly stating that obesity is healthy.  That's not the same as telling people they don't have to feel like shit over how they look in the mirror.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> I seem to remember a particular first lady who tried to tackle the issue of childhood obesity head on.  She probably could've gotten a lot more done on that front if the other party didn't treat the issue like a political football.
> 
> Opinion pieces don't get front page promotion, or much of any promotion at all.  You have to seek out the opinion section or Google a specific headline from it.



I hope it wasn't Mrs. Obama because she sure as hell isn't setting a good example with her own weight.

Funny as I simply loaded the page, didn't scroll down and it was included in with the other headliners. I would have probably missed it as the last place I'm going to browse is the opinion section on CNN.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> I hope it wasn't Mrs. Obama because she sure as hell isn't setting a good example with her own weight.


Holy Christ, what?  Michelle Obama is not overweight by any standard, and by your own admission, you're the last person who should be calling anyone fat.

Edit: not to mention it completely undermines your own opinions on the matter when you don't acknowledge others' efforts to curb the obesity rate.



cots said:


> Funny as I simply loaded the page, didn't scroll down and it was included in with the other headliners.


Bullshit.  I'm on a 4K display and I still have to scroll down a fair amount for the opinion section.


----------



## osaka35 (Jun 18, 2019)

there are a few separate issues that can be sub-categorized from "being fat".

- Health issues
- Society Issues
- Personal issues
- Rights issues
- Work Issues

Personal and societal issues are close, but probably deserve their own category. How you feel about someone being overweight is a personal issue, same as how they feel about themselves. Obviously you can be whatever size you want, eat whatever you want, and look however you want. Other folks are also perfectly okay to feel a certain way about how you look. The problem comes when folks decide "how I feel" is the same thing as "how you should be". Just because you don't like the way someone looks, that doesn't mean you can throw all the other categories I mentioned at them to force them to change into something you like better. That's just manipulative.

If you want to discuss the other categories as separate topics to how you it makes you feel, then you should. I personally want people to live long, healthy, productive lives. This is best done by everyone getting proper sleep, eating quality foods (but not more than needed), working out, continuing education, continuing growth of emotional maturity, and not being a tool. Generally if you live life to maximize happiness and minimize suffering, you tend to be more fit and not fat. But not always, and everyone's mileage varies. My attraction to someone doesn't really enter into the picture. 

But in the "work" and "society" categorize, perceptions of other people influences a lot of decisions, so how folks are treated based on how they look is important. Definitely should be discussed, just not conflated with other categories, that's all.


----------



## th3joker (Jun 18, 2019)

what disgusts me is fat parents feeding their kids crap and making them fat too. its one thing to be a adult and choose to buy crap food, its child abuse to be a lazy fuck and feeding crap to kids who have no choice. mother fuckers who free their kids mac and cheese all the time becuase its easy to make.    i think it should be legal for the state to take away kids from shitty parents like that.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

th3joker said:


> what disgusts me is fat parents feeding their kids crap and making them fat too. its one thing to be a adult and choose to buy crap food, its child abuse to be a lazy fuck and feeding crap to kids who have no choice. mother fuckers who free their kids mac and cheese all the time becuase its easy to make.    i think it should be legal for the state to take away kids from shitty parents like that.


There's a direct correlation between poverty and childhood obesity.  You can't feed your kids healthy foods if you can't afford them or they aren't available in your area.  Often it's both.  The country as a whole is just too deep into the pockets of big sugar and big corn, and has been for a long time.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Holy Christ, what?  Michelle Obama is not overweight by any standard, and by your own admission, you're the last person who should be calling anyone fat.
> 
> Edit: not to mention it completely undermines your own opinions on the matter when you don't acknowledge others' efforts to curb the obesity rate.



She's not overly obese, but she's definitely overweight (aka fat). I've also got some more work to go (aka I'm still fat, don't have any problems admitting it and don't take offense if you call me fat), but at least I'm not obese anymore. It's good that she tried to implement something relating to losing weight (if she's the women you were referring to), but it would probably come across better if she was setting an example to follow.



> Bullshit.  I'm on a 4K display and I still have to scroll down a fair amount for the opinion section.



Great, doesn't change the fact that I simply loaded cnn.com and the opinion piece I linked to was featured in the main headlines. I never scrolled down or loaded another page to find it. It was located in the link block to the right of the main headline on the top of the page. No scrolling down to any sub-section was necessary.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> She's not overly obese, but she's definitely overweight (aka fat).


Dude, that's probably the worst picture you could find of her, and her belly still isn't protruding at all.  I seriously doubt she's considered overweight for her height.



cots said:


> Great, doesn't change the fact that I simply loaded cnn.com and the opinion piece I linked to was featured in the main headlines.


I see which section you're talking about, 'news and buzz,' but those aren't the main headlines.  Seems to be a random sampling of their content from all sections, probably based on what's trending at the moment.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> There's a direct correlation between poverty and obesity.  You can't feed your kids healthy foods if you can't afford them or they aren't available in your area.  Often it's both.  The country as a whole is just too deep into the pockets of big sugar and big corn, and has been for a long time.



Yes, it's really hard to maintain a diet when you can't afford to buy food in the first place. For me, Keto works out great. I've never tried any other diets so I'm no expert, but you can get away with eating 1 meal a day which drastically cuts down the overall grocery bill. You can do it for really cheap if you don't mind limiting your food intake to the same basic things every week as the less money you spend the less variety you're going to get. I don't think it would be feasible if you're only source of income for food is nutrition assistance, which is funny because the government tells you that you need to eat better, but then only gives you enough money to buy junk with, but is okay with spending thousands of dollars per month on your medical bills because your health then deteriorates. It also doesn't help the people who don't have a kitchen, are living in shelters or depend on food boxes or food pantries for meals. Although, with 2 out of 3 people being obese I don't think that the problem only effects poor people as I don't see any major difference between the amount of obese people when I travel around the ghettos to when I'm in some expensive restaurant in a rich suburb full of multi-million dollar homes.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> I don't think it would be feasible if you're only source of income for food is nutrition assistance, which is funny because the government tells you that you need to eat better, but then only gives you enough money to buy junk with, but is okay with spending thousands of dollars per month on your medical bills because your health then deteriorates. It also doesn't help the people who don't have a kitchen, are living in shelters or depend on food boxes or food pantries for meals. Although, with 2 out of 3 people being obese I don't think that the problem only effects poor people as I don't see any major difference between the amount of obese people when I travel around the ghettos to when I'm in some expensive restaurant in a rich suburb full of multi-million dollar homes.


78% of US workers live paycheck to paycheck, 12% more than those who are obese.  Kind of eye-opening in regard to our distribution of wealth, eh?  We have more than enough resources to solve the problem of healthy food scarcity, but not if those resources continue to go to tax breaks for Jeff Bezos and other ultra-wealthy people in the top 1% instead.  Comes down to what we choose to prioritize.


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> 78% of US workers live paycheck to paycheck, 12% more than those who are obese.  Kind of eye-opening in regard to our distribution of wealth, eh?  We have more than enough resources to solve the problem of healthy food scarcity, but not if those resources continue to go to tax breaks for Jeff Bezos and other ultra-wealthy people in the top 1% instead.  Comes down to what we choose to prioritize.



Living pay-check to pay-check doesn't mean you're poor if you're making 31k a year, but spend it all on stuff you don't need. Drop the smart phone, lose the car, cut off the cable tv, cook your own food, buy used clothes, don't buy garbage shoes because they have a swoosh on them, skip the coffee shop, bring your own lunch to work, buy less stuff, shop at thrift stores, don't buy a house that takes up half on your monthly income, only use credit cards in emergencies. 

If you're making 11k (the poverty level) a year (that means you're working roughly 20 some hours a week) or don't have a job then I could understand using being poor as a valid excuse.

If you're going to cut taxes for the rich you should cut taxes for the poor and the people in between. Rich people shouldn't have to pay less taxes then anyone else, but they also shouldn't have to pay more taxes than anyone else. There shouldn't be any penalties for being rich or any free passes.


----------



## kuwanger (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> 78% of US workers live paycheck to paycheck



The problem with surveys like that is it doesn't really address *why* people live paycheck to paycheck.  Is it because the make little money?  Is it that food is expensive?  Is it because over 25% put nothing aside in savings?  The US subsidizes food production, so the issue isn't per se that food is unusually expensive compared to other countries.  If anything, it's heavily that people just expect to eat cheap food and spend more on other things.

Now, that's not wholly it.  The opposite side of that coin is the number of people who buy into organic products for health reasons--something that's dubious for most products, at best.  Most States, AFAIK, that offer subsidized housing are required to provide appliances like a stove + refrigerator, so it's not an inability to cook.  There's plenty of cook books, internet instructions/videos, etc, so that's not it either.

No, I imagine it's that people (I'm very much included) are lazy when it comes to cooking food.  That it's cheaper and tastes "better" because of all the sugar+salt only double downs on why it's a major part of many peoples diets.  Also, as much as people don't seem to budget their money (only 32% of their 3,500 full-time employee survey), I'd imagine the numbers are just as bad when it comes to budgeting their nutritional needs.

I'd say the biggest practical issues are (1) areas where there isn't fresh food available within a relatively short distance and (2) an inability to access those places.  There are actually community programs in many areas that try to mostly address this--even in rural communities with populations in the 30,000 range and 400 square mile area (although admittedly practically it's closer to 10,000 locally and probably only 10-20 square mile usable service area).


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

kuwanger said:


> No, I imagine it's that people (I'm very much included) are lazy when it comes to cooking food.  That it's cheaper and tastes "better" because of all the sugar+salt only double downs on why it's a major part of many peoples diets.  Also, as much as people don't seem to budget their money (only 32% of their 3,500 full-time employee survey), I'd imagine the numbers are just as bad when it comes to budgeting their nutritional needs.



It's definitely easier to not cook and drive to McDonald's.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> Living pay-check to pay-check doesn't mean you're poor if you're making 31k a year, but spend it all on stuff you don't need.


Yeah, stuff like student loans and transportation.  Nobody needs that stuff.  

31k might be decent for an individual, but it's still gonna be poverty wages if you have to use it to support a family of four.



cots said:


> If you're going to cut taxes for the rich you should cut taxes for the poor and the people in between. Rich people shouldn't have to pay less taxes then anyone else, but they also shouldn't have to pay more taxes than anyone else. There shouldn't be any penalties for being rich or any free passes.


A flat tax rate would only make things worse.  Jeff Bezos could pay 75% of his profits in taxes and still make billions per year.  If somebody making minimum wage had to pay 75% of their income in taxes, they'd be homeless or dead within months.  Conversely, if you make it a low flat tax rate, government has far less funding to work with, and the first things Republicans are going to want to cut are food stamps and healthcare assistance.  Which would be sure to exacerbate the issue since minimum wage workers rely on those programs.



kuwanger said:


> The US subsidizes food production, so the issue isn't per se that food is unusually expensive compared to other countries.


Right, and the food that is subsidized/cheap is almost all junk with a ton of sugar and corn in it.  Certainly doesn't help.


----------



## kuwanger (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> It's definitely easier to not cook and drive to McDonald's.



Easier but not cheaper.  It's funny how that argument is always invoked--not saying you are.  Maybe it's cheaper from an opportunity cost perspective if you could be make hundreds of dollars per hours instead, but for the rest of us cooking is very cheap and it's possible to regularly get cheap hamburger, buns, condiments, etc.  It also probably won't taste as good, but it probably will be healthier for precisely that reason.



Xzi said:


> Yeah, stuff like student loans and transportation. Nobody needs that stuff.



There's definitely some people this applies to.  For most people, though, I am very doubtful those are the things that are crippling peoples ability to spend a little more (or possible even less if they're willing to substantially change their diet).



Xzi said:


> 31k might be decent for an individual, but it's still gonna be poverty wages if you have to use it to support a family of four.



Then live with family.  Live with roommates.  If possibly maybe look for a better paying job or ask for a raise.  The point is, it's an over simplification to point at a family of four to explain away figures.  A family of four represents around 14% of households or around 21% of the population (figures are from 2006, but the percentage has been slowly shrinking).


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Yeah, stuff like student loans and transportation.  Nobody needs that stuff.



I consider having a car being a luxury which I haven't partaken in over 20 years. Not to mention they are the #3 cause of death and one of the most contributing factors to pollution. College is also a luxury and taking out a bad loan on something for a good reason doesn't change the fact it was a bad financial move. It's just easier to have a car and sign a couple of papers and be done with it than put in any real effort.



> 31k might be decent for an individual, but it's still gonna be poverty wages if you have to use it to support a family of four.



Yeah, that sucks, but it's still possible to eat healthy, just takes a lot of trading off to do. Which is why I listed the average income because I know people that have been single parents with children and no spouses that do just fine with around that amount of money. Wouldn't be possible if they actually were at the poverty level without help though.



> A flat tax rate would only make things worse.  Jeff Bezos could pay 75% of his profits in taxes and still make billions per year.  If somebody making minimum wage had to pay 75% of their income in taxes, they'd be homeless or dead within months.



Well, that's why you don't pay 75% of your income. Right now, it's about 33% (in my state). If I'm paying 33% then the middle class and rich people should pay the same. No exceptions because you're rich. If it's too much (which I think it is, then lower it - across the board). Supposedly we're supposed to treat everyone the same based on their race so I see no reason why that shouldn't apply to taxing people.


----------



## th3joker (Jun 18, 2019)

fresh produce is always cheaper than processed crap. a $0.99 head of lettuce is better than $0.10 top ramen.   but thats not even a valid arguement.  all anyone has to do is go grocery shopping on the first day of each month, and just see how much junkfood EVERY PERSON ON FOODSTAMPS / Wic Gets.....  seriously i wont go shopping on the first week of a month. all these broke ass people living off the government.   heres a radical idea make the strait up crap food no longer eligable for food stamps... poof americas obesiety problem solved. if people wanna eat crap food then they have to get a actual job. boom unemployment in america fixed lol


----------



## Xzi (Jun 18, 2019)

cots said:


> I consider having a car being a luxury which I haven't partaken in over 20 years.


It's only a luxury in big cities.  In most parts of the country it's a necessity, you aren't getting to/from work without one.  Or you'll just spend way more on Ubers than you would have on a car payment.



cots said:


> Yeah, that sucks, but it's still possible to eat healthy, just takes a lot of trading off to do. Which is why I listed the average income because I know people that have been single parents with children and no spouses that do just fine with around that amount of money. Wouldn't be possible if they actually were at the poverty level without help though.


Indeed.  And the middle class is continually shrinking at a time of record profits when it should be growing.



cots said:


> Well, that's why you don't pay 75% of your income. Right now, it's about 33% (in my state). If I'm paying 33% then the middle class and rich people should pay the same. No exceptions because you're rich. If it's too much (which I think it is, then lower it - across the board). Supposedly we're supposed to treat everyone the same based on their race so I see no reason why that shouldn't apply to taxing people.


Read again.  A low flat tax rate is an equally terrible idea, but that's really only because minimum wage isn't enough to live on.  If companies like McDonald's and Wal-Mart started to pay living wages, their employees wouldn't be forced to rely on food stamps and healthcare assistance, nor would they be forced to buy food from their employer.



th3joker said:


> fresh produce is always cheaper than processed crap. a $0.99 head of lettuce is better than $0.10 top ramen.


Scarcity of healthy food is a bigger problem in poor neighborhoods than the pricing.  A lot of places literally have gas stations as the only thing even remotely resembling grocery stores, and it goes without saying that they don't carry produce.

https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/americans-still-lack-access-to-healthy-food.htm

I'm not saying scarcity of healthy foods and poverty are the _only_ factors causing the high US obesity rate, but they are contributing factors none the less.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 18, 2019)

On eating healthily in the US. I found it very difficult every time I have been there and doing for myself.

I can cook. I do cook. I like food I have cooked, far more than cheap and easy crap both in taste and the effects it has on my body.

Trying to do that in the US it cost quite a bit* and I really had to work at it, this includes places with decent ports and where it is actually grown either in state or nearer to where I was than other parts of said state. This in addition to how hard not having a car is there in many/most places. Similarly the native recipes I did see there often included sugar or similar for no real reason, for quite some time as well (I might have rinsed thrift stores and such of their 20s through 50s cooking books in my recent trip there, as well as current stuff from the internet) -- I have previously railed on sugar in general bread but I even saw it in things like meatloaf, and upon questioning such things I was met with odd looks.

*I was mainly doing things I eat in the UK. Nothing there in what I was doing was now an expensive exotic import item though, give or take certain spice combinations when I wanted a curry (found a few spice shops though that did it well) and the lack of lamb.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 18, 2019)

Wow, you guys are charged up.

I want to try something.

@notimp ,what do you think?


----------



## notimp (Jun 18, 2019)

Meh, I've just eaten... 

What I think about the concept of obesity and tolerance in society rides around the following concepts.

If you are obese and you can pull it off - all power to you. If you need a social support group for tolerance for your condition - you are doing everything wrong that you could possibly do wrong. 

Reasoning:

1. As Mrs. Anderson of Baywatch fame recently said in another video I posted in here before - "in relationship(s) (implied 'forming'), everyone uses everything that they've got" - and if thats your support group carrying you to social acceptance - you are doing it wrong.

2. As you might have noticed - I can sometimes be a rather anti social individual (and other times a very social one..  ) - and in everything support group that isn't steps program related (i.e. getting you removed from an unhealthy habbit or addiction) - I'm firmly against support groups. Especially ones that tell people how great they are - and then take turns. Where is the excellence in that? 

3. Being judged because you are overweight is more a social construct than an actual reality - again, there are so many ways around it - to make you something other than "the obese dude/gal" - just pick one, and run with it. Just do it.  And if the doctor says  that you have to get weight down, there are inspirational models for that as well. Kevin Smith, to name a dude.

All this said - I'm a little on the chubby side myself (*you dont say, keyboard hero*) but I'd still curse out everyone that would offer me a stepcounter or a gamified app exercise routine - like a mofo.

Because *live in the moment, die young* approach to life. And as a typical hypocrite - I like my women not too chubby. Which brings us back to 1.

Life concepts and plans are freaking different for people. The rest is mostly in your mind. Unless - immediate health issue.

edit: One more thing - the hero of my favourite book series as a child was a little obese. And I'll not ever besmirch his virtual, nonexisting honor - by even thinking that he could have lost a few pounds - not even as an adult. 

(Look for Jupiter Jonas in this wikipedia entry.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Investigators )


----------



## cots (Jun 18, 2019)

th3joker said:


> fresh produce is always cheaper than processed crap. a $0.99 head of lettuce is better than $0.10 top ramen.   but thats not even a valid arguement.  all anyone has to do is go grocery shopping on the first day of each month, and just see how much junkfood EVERY PERSON ON FOODSTAMPS / Wic Gets.....  seriously i wont go shopping on the first week of a month. all these broke ass people living off the government.   heres a radical idea make the strait up crap food no longer eligable for food stamps... poof americas obesiety problem solved. if people wanna eat crap food then they have to get a actual job. boom unemployment in america fixed lol



In my area it's much cheaper to buy junk food. There's no way you could buy healthy cuts of fresh meat, fish, fresh produce, healthy grains, cheeses with on food stamps, but it would be totally viable to buy a bunch of junk to survive. Real non-processed fresh food is much more expensive then mass produced processed crap. Some people can't work or working for them would cost society more money then having them simply not work. I know it's like taboo and unaccepted to say "I can't work", but it's a reality. Would you rather spend $5k a month for supportive services for a disabled person to work and make $200 a week in which they pay 30% of that in taxes back into the community just because "everyone should work"? I thought the thought process behind having a job was to make a profit for yourself and your community. The system isn't design to work for everyone and I don't think giving people less money to do something you're saying they should do when they can't do it is any sort of solution. If you're going to tell people they need to eat healthy and they can't work then you should give them enough money to eat healthy or shut the fuck up and stop telling them to eat healthy. That's like me walking up to a guy with no legs and telling him he has to to run, jump into and cross the nearest river otherwise he can't eat dinner with us.


----------



## xenon (Jun 19, 2019)

cots said:


> Overeating isn't the only cause of obesity. Some people just have poor diets and don't exercise. I had a friend who was overweight, who only ate like twice a day, but his choice in food were lousy and he would spend most of his time playing video games.


Personally I doubt that a sedentary life and a bad diet alone can make people obese, especially at a young or relatively young age.


----------



## cots (Jun 19, 2019)

xenon said:


> Personally I doubt that a sedentary life and a bad diet alone can make people obese, especially at a young or relatively young age.



Your doubt doesn't change how to human body works. Per my example, my friend who would not over eat, would eat 2 meals a day. He was Puerto Rican and his meals consisted of lots of unhealthy fats and way too many calories. So you're taking in substances that unless you exercise will usually be converted into fat and stored in your body. So then what did he do? He played video games all day long. He was 12 and was the second largest kid at school. It's pretty simple, if you intake stuff that makes you fat and don't get rid of it you'll end up fat. Meaning, simply eating bad and not exercising will make you fat just like eating too much and not exercising will make you fat. While how much bad food intake required to make you fat due to your metabolism varies from person to person it's just the basic way the body works. If you eat poorly, which in this example is taking in more of a substance that your body stores as fat and then got getting rid of it by exercising you'll end up obese.

I mean, you could pick it apart and get into case by case studies to try to prove there are exceptions and such, but that's simply nitpicking. You're not going to tell me that sitting on your ass all day while eating only at McDonald's isn't going to make you not be overweight. If that was the case then obesity wouldn't be a problem. Oh, what about mental conditions or diseases? Having a mental condition doesn't change how the body works, it's still the same thing, eat like shit (for whatever reason) and don't exercise (for whatever reason) and you'll end up fat. The diseases? It's very, very rare for someone to have a body that can't process fat after exercising, the rest who have diseases have them because they are fat. If they would eat better and exercise the diseases would go away.

Oh, an example of a meal he'd eat was this: Yellow Rice, 1 lb. Bacon Cooked, Grease from Bacon, Large Black Beans, Can of Spam and BBQ Chicken Legs (all mixed together).

(Man, the shit was good, but it's not something you should be eating every day.)


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 19, 2019)

cots said:


> Oh, an example of a meal he'd eat was this: Yellow Rice, 1 lb. Bacon Cooked, Grease from Bacon, Large Black Beans, Can of Spam and BBQ Chicken Legs (all mixed together).



What. The. Fuck.
He willingly ate Spam?
Friends don't let friends eat Spam, man.

Are you still in touch with him? Has he changed his diet?


----------



## xenon (Jun 19, 2019)

cots said:


> [...] Meaning, simply eating bad and not exercising will make you fat just like eating too much and not exercising will make you fat.
> Oh, an example of a meal he'd eat was this: Yellow Rice, 1 lb. Bacon Cooked, Grease from Bacon, Large Black Beans, Can of Spam and BBQ Chicken Legs (all mixed together).


Apologies. I was speaking of European levels of "eating bad", not that kind of fast-food suicide. Still, such a diet implies seeking extreme pleasure from each bite of each meal you have, so I'd say it still relates to my first post. And by the way, you would consider the "meal" you listed above "bad eating" and not "overeating"?


----------



## cots (Jun 19, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> What. The. Fuck.
> He willingly ate Spam?
> Friends don't let friends eat Spam, man.
> 
> Are you still in touch with him? Has he changed his diet?



Spam is some good stuff. I knew the recipe because I liked it so much I sometimes make it myself (minus including the bacon grease). I have no clue where he's at now.



xenon said:


> Apologies. I was speaking of European levels of "eating bad", not that kind of fast-food suicide. Still, such a diet implies seeking extreme pleasure from each bite of each meal you have, so I'd say it still relates to my first post. And by the way, you would consider the "meal" you listed above "bad eating" and not "overeating"?



That recipe isn't healthy nor was most of the food his family cooked so it's bad if you eat it all of the time. His mother would make a gigantic pot of the stuff and it would last for days. He wasn't overeating it at all and if he was he would have been the #1 fattest kid at the school (in my grade at least). We had two overweight people out of our entire grade and it was a medium sized school. Which is why I don't buy that 2 out of 3 kids being overweight is any sort of normal.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 19, 2019)

cots said:


> Spam is some good stuff.



I don't know, man; "ham" in a can just doesn't sit right with me. In fact, the only canned meat I'll willingly and knowingly ingest:






Seriously, I like to take Hormel Corned Beef Hash with some really good steamed cabbage. 
If I feel like walking on the wild side, I add some crispy onions and toasted bread.


----------



## Kurt91 (Jun 20, 2019)

Spam's not too bad, depending on what you do with it. My family would get out a potato peeler, use it to slice a block of Spam into really thin slices, then fry it in place of bacon for breakfasts. Why? Bacon was too expensive.

My family lives in a rural area. There is no possible way we'd be able to survive without a vehicle, it's a 15 minute drive to get to town. We've had to go though being broke, with our pride being the only thing keeping us from getting food stamps.

I know first-hand that when you're broke as hell, you can't afford healthy food. You bought stuff in bulk that would last you as long as possible. Big bags of dried beans and rice, boxes of ramen packages and mac&cheese that you had to improvise when making because you couldn't afford either milk or butter. That pretty much means that every meal is going to be insanely heavy in carbs and sugars, which mean you're probably going to be gaining weight.

Yeah, there was a push towards healthier eating at schools and stuff, but that didn't work because there wasn't an increased budget or anything to actually pay for the healthier stuff. Instead, the schools would cut as many corners as possible to 'technically' meet the recommendations.

I've honestly been thinking about moving out of the country to somewhere where I'd have an easier time getting healthier foods. The college I go to has a program where we can teach English in Japan. Japanese food seems pretty healthy compared to what's in the United States, and I've seen videos showing how you can easily get less-processed, freshly-made foods even in places like 7-Eleven.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Jun 20, 2019)

Hmm, I'm a fat fuck but the doctor says my blood sugar, cholesterol, blood pressure etc. is normal any time I get a checkup. The only thing that wasn't normal was my vitamin D3 (not much sunlight during the winter here...) so I started taking a supplement for that.


----------



## xenon (Jun 20, 2019)

cots said:


> Spam is some good stuff. I knew the recipe because I liked it so much I sometimes make it myself (minus including the bacon grease). I have no clue where he's at now.
> 
> 
> 
> That recipe isn't healthy nor was most of the food his family cooked so it's bad if you eat it all of the time. His mother would make a gigantic pot of the stuff and it would last for days. He wasn't overeating it at all and if he was he would have been the #1 fattest kid at the school (in my grade at least). We had two overweight people out of our entire grade and it was a medium sized school. Which is why I don't buy that 2 out of 3 kids being overweight is any sort of normal.


I'm not sure I got your point here, but I guess we both expressed our general points of view, so all good.


----------



## cots (Jun 20, 2019)

xenon said:


> I'm not sure I got your point here, but I guess we both expressed our general points of view, so all good.



My point was that the meal was unhealthy and he wasn't overeating and then I also pointed out that have 2 out of 3 kids being obese isn't normal. So simply eating unhealthy meals and playing video games all day long does lead to being fat (which, I'm not even sure why this was in question, it's simply how things work).

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



The Real Jdbye said:


> Hmm, I'm a fat fuck but the doctor says my blood sugar, cholesterol, blood pressure etc. is normal any time I get a checkup. The only thing that wasn't normal was my vitamin D3 (not much sunlight during the winter here...) so I started taking a supplement for that.



Some people's bodies are stronger then others, but after some time you'll probably end up with high cholesterol and blood pressure (as those are commonly relating to being overweight). Not sure about diabetes, depends on how strong you pancreas it as if you don't lose weight you may or may not get it. My pancreas is a piece of shit, I want a new one.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Jun 21, 2019)

cots said:


> My point was that the meal was unhealthy and he wasn't overeating and then I also pointed out that have 2 out of 3 kids being obese isn't normal. So simply eating unhealthy meals and playing video games all day long does lead to being fat (which, I'm not even sure why this was in question, it's simply how things work).
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I've been staying around this weight for 10 years. It should have happened by now.


----------



## cots (Jun 22, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> I've been staying around this weight for 10 years. It should have happened by now.



Not really. If you have a strong body you might not see the effects until you're much older. Similar to leading a bad lifestyle that contributes to dying from a heart attack when you're older. I would be happy that you're not experiencing abnormal levels yet, but it'll catch up to you sooner or later, unless you shred some pounds now.


----------



## xenon (Jun 22, 2019)

cots said:


> My point was that the meal was unhealthy and he wasn't overeating and then I also pointed out that have 2 out of 3 kids being obese isn't normal. So simply eating unhealthy meals and playing video games all day long does lead to being fat (which, I'm not even sure why this was in question, it's simply how things work).


Ok. Are you able to estimate the calories provided by such meal?


----------



## notimp (Jun 22, 2019)

xenon said:


> Ok. Are you able to estimate the calories provided by such meal?


This - I want to remind everyone - is named a forum for political discussion.

Discussion is also a medium of public interaction - by which people try to win arguments in the most outrageous forms possible, using flaws in human psychology and judgement.

Sorry - I think I interrupted you wanting to win an argument based on making your opponent name the calories count of a meal. Because internet.

There are moments, when even Godwins law is too tame to describe whats going on in social interactions between people on the net.


----------



## xenon (Jun 22, 2019)

notimp said:


> This - I want to remind everyone - is named a forum for political discussion.
> 
> Discussion is also a medium of public interaction - by which people try to win arguments in the most outrageous forms possible, using flaws in human psychology and judgement.
> 
> ...


I don't understand the spirit of your intervention. Mine was not a personal attack, nor is the discussion with cots a personal one. My question about the calories relates to the debate we were having about the eating habits of a (unnamed) person he knows. The debate is about overeating vs. bad eating and I find the calories count of a person's typical meal very relevant to the conversation. Conversation which I found civil and constructive and not "because Internet". I suggest you read a few posts back and reconsider the context of my latest post.


----------

