# America: everyday life vs that YouTube video



## Deleted User (Sep 5, 2017)

By now most of us have seen that viral youtube video of the nurse getting arrested.

The comments on the video seem to portray America as some fucked up place where the cops think themselves kings and this is the one occasion where their corruption was exposed. I doubt this is true, YouTube comments are not a very reliable source of information.

But I've never been to America before. What do people who actually live in America have to say about this incident?

Remember to keep the comments civilised.


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## Jayro (Sep 5, 2017)

leafeon34 said:


> By now most of us have seen that viral youtube video of the nurse getting arrested.
> 
> The comments on the video seem to portray America as some fucked up place where the cops think themselves kings and this is the one occasion where their corruption was exposed. I doubt this is true, YouTube comments are not a very reliable source of information.
> 
> ...


I live in the USA, and our country is becoming a "police state". Cops are killing unarmed people left and right, using brute force, and seeing the corruption as it happens, while the cops go unpunished and with paid leave leaves us pissed off. Now, I'll be the first to admit, I have a bias against cops... My girlfriend was assaulted by an older man, and when we called the cops, they took the assaulter's side "because there weren't any bruises or video evidence" according to them. So FUCK COPS. They weren't there for us when we needed them. In my opinion, cops should be treated just the same as Fire fighters and paramedics, in the regard that "if we need you, we'll call you."


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 5, 2017)

Disturbing, but the sentiment of those comments are not true. America is a very large country, and one thing that happens in one part of the country might be very different in another. I live in Seattle, and the police I know here are very well trained and organized. Personally, I know two cops in training, and when I was on the streets during the inauguration day protests/riots, they were very diligent and did their jobs well. See, all the various town/city police departments operate independently for the most part. It is impossible to generalize what happened among one police department to another anywhere else in the US. That's just how this country works.

Honestly, there's been so much mass-hysteria over police brutality due to an over-reporting of incidents like the one in question with the nurse. Nevertheless, violent confrontations with police have been on a general downward trend across the US over the past many decades. While things _are_ getting better, cases of police brutality are being reported more and more, and so it _seems_ like the situation is getting worse when it is in fact improving. I'm hoping that something good can come of this and whatever issues certain police departments face can be rooted out much quicker knowing they'll have the public ire if they fail. But no, the whole "America is a fucked up place where cops think themselves kings" is pure hysteria.


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## th3joker (Sep 5, 2017)

Cops tend to think of themselves as above the laws they enforce. They also have ticket quotas and look for excuses to fuck with people. Watch the show cops


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## Jayro (Sep 5, 2017)

th3joker said:


> Cops tend to think of themselves as above the laws they enforce. They also have ticket quotas and look for excuses to fuck with people. Watch the show cops


Yeah, exactly.  Cops are public servants, but they act like they are above the law and constitution at all times.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 5, 2017)

Jayro said:


> I live in the USA, and our country is becoming a "police state". Cops are killing unarmed people left and right, using brute force, and seeing the corruption as it happens, while the cops go unpunished and with paid leave leaves us pissed off. Now, I'll be the first to admit, I have a bias against cops... My girlfriend was assaulted by an older man, and when we called the cops, they took the assaulter's side "because there weren't any bruises or video evidence" according to them. So FUCK COPS. They weren't there for us when we needed them. In my opinion, cops should be treated just the same as Fire fighters and paramedics, in the regard that "if we need you, we'll call you."


Thanks for this reply! OP, if you look here, you'll see that opinions _vastly_ differ from place to place, person to person here in the US. I agree with Jayro's sentiment on cops that commit wrongdoing going unpunished. I don't know what happens internally at police departments, but it seems counter-intuitive to stamping out whatever problems that department has. Corruption? Maybe.

I do have to address one thing though, Jayro. The police have a duty to uphold the law. If they can't find evidence that a crime was committed, their hands are tied. While I feel for you, I don't think you can hold it against the cops unless there _was _evidence and the cops ignored it. Also, you could press charges if you wish.



th3joker said:


> Cops tend to think of themselves as above the laws they enforce. They also have ticket quotas and look for excuses to fuck with people. Watch the show cops



Ticket quotas are stupid. Memorize the police schedules and you'll notice that at the end of the month, police are everywhere pulling people over for anything they can to meet their quotas.


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## Jayro (Sep 5, 2017)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> Also, you could press charges if you wish.


I honestly don't care enough to press charges, he's gonna die soon anyways. He's gotta be in his 80's. He beats his wife too. The assault happened at a friend's apartment complex, and it was years ago.

(I also live in Washington state, Vancouver WA to be exact. Basically, Portland Jr.)


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 5, 2017)

Jayro said:


> I honestly don't care enough to press charges, he's gonna die soon anyways. He's gotta be in his 80's. He beats his wife too. The assault happened at a friend's apartment complex, and it was years ago.
> 
> (I also live in Washington state, Vancouver WA to be exact. Basically, Portland Jr.)


Jeez, if some 80-year-old wife beater did that to my girlfriend, I don't think I'd have the discipline to not sock him in the face at first sight.


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## Jayro (Sep 5, 2017)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> Jeez, if some 80-year-old wife beater did that to my girlfriend, I don't think I'd have the discipline to not sock him in the face at first sight.


Trust me, it took a lot to keep me from grinding his face into my next meal.


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## GhostLatte (Sep 5, 2017)

While yes that brutality was uncalled for, not all police officers are like that and some people need to learn that they are essential for preserving law and order.


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## leerpsp (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm from the usa this kind of stuff happens a lot only one case i know of in Kentucky were i'm from and if one cop gets in trouble because of you then most of them from then on that know that one cop are out to get you the rest of the time going out of there way to pull you over run you out of coffee shops you name it.
If you call one an ass or flip then off and yes its not agents the law to do that its freedom of expression but they get you with there catch all disorderly conduct.
Some in Kentucky still don't have a body cam or some will turn them off or brake them so they can trump charges on people.
It is starting to get really bad in the usa not all cops are like this but its starting to get more and more common so the usa people have to set and watch it all unfold and are not able to do anything about it most of the time.
The video's you see online here and there showing this is only 1% of this going on a lot more of this happening that no one has proof of so its more like 45% if not more.


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## Quantumcat (Sep 5, 2017)

I can understand why it happens. Consider life from the perspective of a police officer. Anybody could be carrying a gun, and have no hesitation about using it on you.

If you value your life, you have to start every encounter in an aggressive way because of the risk. Even if someone clearly can't logically have a gun (they're in a swimming suit or naked for instance) it would be force of habit - you don't start by determining whether there might be a gun involved or not (by then it could be too late and you are shot), you just have to automatically approach every situation aggressively.

The only solution is to have less guns, but the NRA seems to own the government and it won't happen. This is a large reason why I would never want to live in the U.S. I could get shot as an innocent bystander by police or criminals alike. And then go bankrupt from the medical bills as salt in the wound.

Edit : I used to wonder how so many American police could just be so evil, until I understood this perspective. It really doesn't make any sense that somehow, all of the thousands of police officers recruited each year from all different backgrounds could all be a bit evil in the same way. But once you realise it's the environment they are working in that causes it, it makes so much more sense. All of these different sorts of people end up the same because they have to all go through the same horrors which shapes the way they do their job.


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## StarTrekVoyager (Sep 5, 2017)

From what I see, America is a butchery. People die everyday because of this shameful healthcare system that puts money before human lives. Cops are more violent than in any other state, people die from being arrested. Everyday I want less and less to go to the US in the future.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Quantumcat said:


> The only solution is to have less guns, but the NRA seems to own the government and it won't happen. This is a large reason why I would never want to live in the U.S. I could get shot as an innocent bystander by police or criminals alike. And then go bankrupt from the medical bills as salt in the wound.


The fact the NRA, which is basically a group that supports children being murdered, exists, is a shame for the USA.


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## Quantumcat (Sep 5, 2017)

StarTrekVoyager said:


> From what I see, America is a butchery. People die everyday because of this shameful healthcare system that puts money before human lives. Cops are more violent than in any other state, people die from being arrested. Everyday I want less and less to go to the US in the future.


France is a little bit scary too. I was in Nice a few weeks after the truck incident, and on the train to Monaco, there were scary armed military guards at all the train stations.
Edit: but then at one train station there was a public piano, and someone was playing the Song Of Storms and Kakariko Village on it, so that kind of made up for it!


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## StarTrekVoyager (Sep 5, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> France is a little bit scary too. I was in Nice a few weeks after the truck incident, and on the train to Monaco, there were scary armed military guards at all the train stations.


Actually, this was only due to the terrorist attack. And keep in mind the militaries patrol to protect people. Even cops can't do shit woth guns because they'd get sued and end up in jail. And civilians aren't allowed to have guns otherwise. France also has Social Security which basically means you don't pay essential medical services, and only pay ~30% of the less important ones.


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## RustInPeace (Sep 5, 2017)

I'll only address the everyday life and touch a bit on the cops here. Starting with the latter, I haven't had many brushes with them, the only thing of note is that, without going into detail because it's nobody on here's business, a crime scene happened, my laptop and external hard drive were taken in as evidence for really no reason other than a detective seeing me type on the laptop. I was modding a porn forum at the time and I had to quickly inform the rest of the staff that I'll probably be going away for a while. I explained that I was "posting a message" to someone, saying I have to leave. That's it, but yet they took my stuff, and I still haven't gotten them back, it's been 5 years. I've tried calling them about getting it back and it went nowhere. Non-personal times, whatever, they do stuff. I can't assess if they're good or bad on any other situation other than the one involving me 5 years ago. No "fuck the cops" or "praise the cops" basically. I'd say fuck that detective and their evidence retrieving ways. My equipment and the computer in the living room that was also confiscated, had no evidence at all about the crime scene. Nothing, so what the fuck?

Everyday life, I'm in my house all the time. I'm in a part of the city where 9 times out of 10, I see a fellow Latino or a black person. I rarely see white people, it's become a humorous thing with me that I flip out in my head that I saw a white person. They just don't live around these parts. There are some white neighbors, but I hardly see them anyways. It's a small city, you get crime, underbelly sections, shady people, but that's in every town and city that has a busy population. Big cities get more attention, Baltimore, Chicago. Small cities get it too when something goes viral, but nothing here qualifies as viral. In some ways you can't classify all of America as this and that, because it's very diverse, and continues to be so. In other ways you can, but even so, can't go overboard with that. Such as that all cops are horrible, that's not true. Liberals are ruining the country? No. Conservatives are? No, how about both? I don't want to get political here, but I feel like people on all sides are fucking up the country, conversely people from many walks of life remind that there's still some good in it. It's that diverse, I feel like no middle ground can come of it, only that the country is just, I don't know, divided. In shambles if you only read the news and don't look outside your neighborhood or city if you live in the States as well. What I see? Normal everyday shit. Perhaps that's in the majority, but the media doesn't bother covering that, for obvious reasons (which are not really pleasant to me). I've heard recent podcasts from people overseas who give the country a visit and love it so much, so as a tourist place, America's highly recommended. To live there permanently? Give it a try, if you find the right place for you. Here, so many Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, this is practically a haven for Latino Americans, specifically this central part of the city. So for them, I'd say come here and we'll enjoy a lot of local Dominican little food joints. There's even a cargo service here that delivers stuff from this general area to Dominican Republic only. In that respect, the transition from one of those countries to here, is seamless.

Anyways, rambled on too much. As for that nurse thing, really horrible what happened to her. I do wonder if it wasn't recorded, would it even get so much attention. Pros and cons to the fact that the current society is obsessed with recording everything and with that, cops getting bodycams. I was shocked mostly that this took place in Utah! What the hell? The act itself, horrible yes, but it can happen, cops pushing their weight against someone and being aggressive when resisted. That it happened in Utah blew my mind.


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## DinohScene (Sep 5, 2017)

HAHAHAHA murricah.

I'm sorry but the US is portrayed as a laugh over here.
It's the land of burgers, fastfood, fat pigs on scooters and other nonsense.

Also, no, I have not seen that video, nor do I care.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 5, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> If you value your life, you have to start every encounter in an aggressive way because of the risk. Even if someone clearly can't logically have a gun (they're in a swimming suit or naked for instance) it would be force of habit - you don't start by determining whether there might be a gun involved or not (by then it could be too late and you are shot), you just have to automatically approach every situation aggressively.
> 
> The only solution is to have less guns, but the NRA seems to own the government and it won't happen. This is a large reason why I would never want to live in the U.S. I could get shot as an innocent bystander by police or criminals alike. And then go bankrupt from the medical bills as salt in the wound.



That's the whole conversation going around about a lack of training for many police officers. Officers who are poorly trained lack the capability for better mental judgment that could decrease violent encounters and fatalities. As you said, someone who can't logically have a gun shouldn't be hossled. That said, it's absolutely a hard job, especially in crime-ridden areas. Speaking specifically about the nurse in the video in question, that absolutely should not have happened, but for a cop working in the Bronx? Yes, approaching situations aggressively is an understandable position given the nature of the area they work in.

Also no, I don't think a solution is as clear as simply barring the sale of guns. 2nd amendment debates aside, there's just no conclusive evidence that this would work. If we're talking about causation, while gun manufacturing nearly doubled between 2007 and 2011, gun murders in 2012 were at their lowest rates since 1981 and drastically declining. Same with robbery and aggravated assault involving firearms (Source). Rising gun production with drastically declining gun violence would suggest that there is another factor at play and at the very least, it cannot just be gun control that needs to be examined in order to deal with violent crime.



StarTrekVoyager said:


> From what I see, America is a butchery. People die everyday because of this shameful healthcare system that puts money before human lives. Cops are more violent than in any other state, people die from being arrested. Everyday I want less and less to go to the US in the future.



Healthcare needs to be fixed, no doubt. But calling America a "butchery"? Rates of murder and violent crime have been drastically declining over the past many decades. The reason things look so bad now is because violent crimes and police confrontations are reported more often and on bigger platforms, giving the illusion that things are going to hell when the actual facts show that the situation is actually getting better and better. America's homicide rates are too high, for sure, but you also have to consider geography since America is so vast -- high homicide and violent crime rates happen in concentrated, densely-packed areas, thereby driving up the number of potential victims. Meanwhile, other places in the US have extremely low crime rates due to a multitude of factors. You really cannot generalize anything in this country, there's just too much diversity of everything to do that.


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm going to have to give it up to Halo here as I basically agree with everything he has said.

Are there bad eggs? sure people are people and power has never made a human being a better person however I believe that most people become police officers in order to help others.
I will also agree that there are bad eggs who deeds never go unpunished however saying that the ENTIRE police force is racist or bad or whatever bad label you want to slap on them is NOT the answer.


The answer is that both sides need some work.

One side needs to chill and stop calling everything police do violence and for him/her them to hang like some crazy mod mentality until ALL the facts come out.
The other side needs some serious internal review to get rid of all the bad eggs.


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## RustInPeace (Sep 5, 2017)

CallmeBerto said:


> sure people are people



I popped reading that because...


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## CallmeBerto (Sep 5, 2017)

Another thing I'd like to add is my own personal experience with the police force.

I am 26 years old and I've had 2 encounters with the police.

1. Got my first ticket at 17 for speeding while I was mad about it, it was also my vault for speeding and the cop was respectful about it.
2. I was out really late in a bad part of town and I got ID asking me what I was doing I was 18 at the time. Again after this exchange and checking my ID and looking me up they went ahead and let me go. Again no issues here.

Overall I've never had any issues with them and I have personally never seen them act like the mad men the media makes them out to be.

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RustInPeace said:


> I popped reading that because...



lol I mean people are assholes


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## Quantumcat (Sep 5, 2017)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> That's the whole conversation going around about a lack of training for many police officers. Officers who are poorly trained lack the capability for better mental judgment that could decrease violent encounters and fatalities. As you said, someone who can't logically have a gun shouldn't be hossled. That said, it's absolutely a hard job, especially in crime-ridden areas. Speaking specifically about the nurse in the video in question, that absolutely should not have happened, but for a cop working in the Bronx? Yes, approaching situations aggressively is an understandable position given the nature of the area they work in.
> 
> Also no, I don't think a solution is as clear as simply barring the sale of guns. 2nd amendment debates aside, there's just no conclusive evidence that this would work. If we're talking about causation, while gun manufacturing nearly doubled between 2007 and 2011, gun murders in 2012 were at their lowest rates since 1981 and drastically declining. Same with robbery and aggravated assault involving firearms (Source). Rising gun production with drastically declining gun violence would suggest that there is another factor at play and at the very least, it cannot just be gun control that needs to be examined in order to deal with violent crime.
> 
> ...


It's true the could be another reason why there are so many police brutality attacks. But the fact that the US has way more guns than any other first world country, the police are brutal there, and there's a logical connection between the two, makes it unlikely there's another explanation. Like if you have two dogs, one of whom eats a banana peel and is really sick the next day, and the other doesn't and is healthy, you'd immediately assume it is caused by the banana peel. Of course it could be something unrelated (like he was already sick and is having an acute episode of whatever it is), and the banana peel won't harm him, but that seems unlikely.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 5, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> It's true the could be another reason why there are so many police brutality attacks. But the fact that the US has way more guns than any other first world country, the police are brutal there, and there's a logical connection between the two, makes it unlikely there's another explanation. Like if you have two dogs, one of whom eats a banana peel and is really sick the next day, and the other doesn't and is healthy, you'd immediately assume it is caused by the banana peel. Of course it could be something unrelated (like he was already sick and is having an acute episode of whatever it is), and the banana peel won't harm him, but that seems unlikely.


That's correlation, not causation. It's a logical fallacy to assume that, especially given the statistics that show dramatically decreased gun violence during a period of dramatically increased gun production. Because that statistic is true, we cannot assume there is direct causation between an increase in guns and gun violence (even if it may play a role). Rather, there is at least one other very important factor in play somewhere that has to be examined. At the very least, an increase in gun ownership is not the sole cause and so banning gun sales will not alleviate the issue. And so no, the facts show the exact opposite of what you say --- that it is actually very likely there's another explanation, or another factor in gun violence and therefore police violence other than increased gun sales/gun ownership.


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Sep 5, 2017)

America does a lot of dumb things, and smart things, but mostly unfair things. Being in a country that doesn't seem to be more caring to the people they get hired to protect, seem like everyone is concerned for their own lives. I understand that but as people who gets paid to protect others, their job is protecting the innocent, the line of betrayal is there and makes it uncomfortable for me and unappealing for others who are observing this state. Sometimes i feel others are laughing at us and how destructive we are, maybe planning things against us, I'm just a common person, I do simple things, i socialize, i try to be nice and try to live a happy life without inconveniencing others. 

I do not feel comfortable being outside in the open most of the time, I don't feel safe at all even in my own house. I don't like waking up to news of disaster of people killing every day. That doesn't give hope for me or show others that usa is a good place, I honestly encourage people not to come here because in honestly I don't wanna be here. New york? Don't come, if i could I would move but unfortunate circumstances seem to impact a lot of people and prevent such actions as if intentional. People here are not friendly most of the time, not sure of the reasons, maybe sadness, depression, stress, other personal matters they put on to others as inconvenience, I want to be able to have a nice life where people I can feel comfortable around, but this place just isn't it. Can't walk the street without someone glaring or having something shady going on and giving you chills. 

At times like this, i wish i was Phillip J Fry from futurama just frozen in cryogenically until the future is a better place.


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## GalladeGuy (Sep 5, 2017)

Are some police like that? Yes, of course. There will always be a few bad apples. But the majority of cops are good people who are just doing their job. Of course it is terrible what happened to that nurse, but we have to remember that it was a single incident. Police arrest hundreds of people a day, most of them being justified. Even if some of them aren't, cops are people too. People make mistakes.


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## orangy57 (Sep 5, 2017)

some cops are cool and others are power tripping douches that think they're all cool because they have a gun and the law on their side


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## Deleted User (Sep 6, 2017)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> the statistics that show dramatically decreased gun violence during a period of dramatically increased gun production


You raise a very good point, but I still prefer to live in Australia with our brutal knife and gun laws.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 7, 2017)

leafeon34 said:


> You raise a very good point, but I still prefer to live in Australia with our brutal knife and gun laws.


I don't blame you, haha.


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## HamBone41801 (Sep 7, 2017)

well, I'd say everyone is wholeheartedly against what happened to that nurse. however, most people either think that america is one incident away from becoming a police state, or they refuses to accept that a problem exists. far too many people take their opinion on the matter to such extremes. 

there is definitely a problem in some places, in fact it was ruled that a specific police station was absolutely training its officers to profile based on race (as for which one, I think it was the one where the mentally handicapped man with the toy train was shot, but I might be wrong). but for the most part, its bad people in the field, not the field itself that is to blame.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 7, 2017)

Hadn't seen the video (this one, right?), but I can see why this thread is being made. And to be honest, I've got those doubts as well.

As someone who has never even been on US soil, my view obviously depends on the media and home video's. And of course neither go viral or make the news if nothing's amiss ("next up on the news: local US cop goes to investigate a neighbor dispute and totally calms everyone by being diplomatic and nice to all involved, thus allowing for them to settle their differences in a civilized manner! Shocking images at seven o'clock!!!"), so my view is obviously one-sided.

Still, I can't but help notice that things are polarizing. Before 9/11 I never heard anything on xenophobia, but since then it slowly dripped in, it seems. And the financial crisis clearly left a large group frustrated and/or in a victim role (rightfully so, but that's a different matter). Mostly, people are people and tend to keep their problems to themselves. But that doesn't mean the frustration is gone. Again: it may be me, but stories like told in not always right seem like external outings of that frustration.
And cops? They get to deal with these people on a daily basis. The sort of people who want to sue a coffee bar for them not parking correctly or want a problem on their porch solved without giving away their address. I imagine they're under a lot of stress. And the polarization isn't helping. It's as if everyone is put against everyone. Christ, it's like you as a country just WANT to get everyone against you. Immigrants, children of former immigrants, black people, believers in climate change, North Korea, the European Union...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know: the far majority of inhabitants just want a decent job, not being at war, a freshly mowed lawn in front of the house and Turkey for thanksgiving. Shouldn't you focus on having that instead of on what's going on?

(note: the polarization didn't start with Trump. Him even making it to candidate was already a sign of things being wrong)

*sigh*

Believe me, I hate cops as well. I know I can't count on them if I need them, and I've had my share of problems for retarded offenses (got a ticket for driving through a red light when there's no car ANYWHERE...with a freaking bike). I know they're just being human, and that means being realistic: they probably didn't join the police to harass people about stupid things, but it just so happens that if they have a job ahead of them, they tend to do it (they get a quota on ticket fines that have to be met? So be it). I tend to think that this incident is in the same vein: the agent assumed he was right because being right is what being a police is about (that's sarcasm), so the nurse must've been wrong. The nurse was wrong, so she was in the way of the investigation. She was in the way of the investigation, therefore she should've been arrested. From that sort of logic, it all fits.

...and I think I rambled more than made any cohesive post. Sorry about that. 



HaloEliteLegend said:


> That's correlation, not causation. It's a logical fallacy to assume that, especially given the statistics that show dramatically decreased gun violence during a period of dramatically increased gun production.


I'd like to see those statistics. Because for one thing, I don't believe this world is becoming a safer place now that North Korea is doing that increased gun production thing.


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## Blebleman (Sep 7, 2017)

America is a third-world country.
They use Imperial measurements, Fahrenheit...
People can't pay for education, can't pay for healthcare, don't earn enough to retire...

"Make America Great Again" ... America never was "Great" to begin with...

Go to Canada if you want to see what America should be like. 

EDIT: OH LOL AND GUNS. How could I forget guns? Oh right -- it's because they're not an issue here.


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## GalladeGuy (Sep 7, 2017)

Blebleman said:


> America is a third-world country.
> They use Imperial measurements, Fahrenheit...
> People can't pay for education, can't pay for healthcare, don't earn enough to retire...
> 
> ...


I'd rather not live in a country where I can get arrested for "misgendering" someone.


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## Stephano (Sep 7, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> HAHAHAHA murricah.
> 
> I'm sorry but the US is portrayed as a laugh over here.
> It's the land of burgers, fastfood, fat pigs on scooters and other nonsense.
> ...


Well, you are not wrong. Obesity is a problem. I honestly don't know how and why some people let themselves go like that. It's disgusting. Not to mention, the whole body positivity movement. 
While that is something to laugh at, its not exclusive to the US. Although its bigger here.
Aside from obesity, i don't think there is that much to laugh at that can't be found anywhere else.
I feel like a lot of the news that leaves the US is just over the top stuff. I like in small city where life is just normal. Nothing out of the ordinary and plenty of business to keep the place nice and it's citizens happy. Life in most places is just like everywhere else. 
But to be fare, i live in the south. It's different here than most places. People are kind and respectful. That's where the phrase "Southern Hospitality" comes from. There are places like West Memphis and Little Rock which have a lot of crime, but that's inevitable when you have large cities.


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## WeedZ (Sep 7, 2017)

Why have I been finding these so late recently. Cops in the US are crooked. End of story. I was having a discussion about this in the shout box last weekend.

A cop here can walk up to an unarmed guy, not announce himself as an officer, and shoot the dude in the chest while on camera. And all that will happen is he'll be put on a paid suspension while his friends "internal affairs" investigate, and ultimately, put him back to work. This example was literally on the local news here yesterday morning.

They always end in paid leave and return to duty.



Quantumcat said:


> I can understand why it happens. Consider life from the perspective of a police officer. Anybody could be carrying a gun, and have no hesitation about using it on you.
> 
> If you value your life, you have to start every encounter in an aggressive way because of the risk. Even if someone clearly can't logically have a gun (they're in a swimming suit or naked for instance) it would be force of habit - you don't start by determining whether there might be a gun involved or not (by then it could be too late and you are shot), you just have to automatically approach every situation aggressively.
> 
> ...


Cops take an oath to uphold the constitution and preserve law and order as a public servant. Not to go home safe every night. That's why law enforcement is suppose to be a position of honor.

But you have cops like the one that pulled a gun on my 15 year old sister while questioning why she was out so late. Fucking cowards like that have no business being in uniform. They want to be heroes and figures of authority, but they'd rather threaten a little girls life than honor their position. Fuck em.

It's not all cops, sure. But it's too god damn many. That stuff happens here all the time. They ALWAYS get away with it.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Sep 7, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> The only solution is to have less guns, but the NRA seems to own the gogvernment and it won't happen.





StarTrekVoyager said:


> The fact the NRA, which is basically a group that supports children being murdered, exists, is a shame for the USA.


I don't know where these borderline libelous statements came from, but without guns there is nothing stopping this nation from being a total police state. It's the threat of the militia and an armed revolution that keeps the federal government somewhat in check. That's why it was important enough to be the 2nd amendment to the constitution, right under freedom of speech.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

GhostLatte said:


> While yes that brutality was uncalled for, not all police officers are like that and some people need to learn that they are essential for preserving law and order.


Honestly I hate the "not all cops" argument, because while, yes, the majority of officers are not brutalizing or assaulting people, the majority ARE letting it slide... and the ones that are speaking out against it get fired, which shows just how corrupt people who wield power tend to get


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## SG854 (Sep 7, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> HAHAHAHA murricah.
> 
> I'm sorry but the US is portrayed as a laugh over here.
> It's the land of burgers, fastfood, fat pigs on scooters and other nonsense.
> ...


You mean like this.





HaloEliteLegend said:


> Disturbing, but the sentiment of those comments are not true. America is a very large country, and one thing that happens in one part of the country might be very different in another. I live in Seattle, and the police I know here are very well trained and organized. Personally, I know two cops in training, and when I was on the streets during the inauguration day protests/riots, they were very diligent and did their jobs well. See, all the various town/city police departments operate independently for the most part. It is impossible to generalize what happened among one police department to another anywhere else in the US. That's just how this country works.
> 
> Honestly, there's been so much mass-hysteria over police brutality due to an over-reporting of incidents like the one in question with the nurse. Nevertheless, violent confrontations with police have been on a general downward trend across the US over the past many decades. While things _are_ getting better, cases of police brutality are being reported more and more, and so it _seems_ like the situation is getting worse when it is in fact improving. I'm hoping that something good can come of this and whatever issues certain police departments face can be rooted out much quicker knowing they'll have the public ire if they fail. But no, the whole "America is a fucked up place where cops think themselves kings" is pure hysteria.



Pretty much. Most of the stuff about cops brutality is exaggerated. Cops get such a bad rep. Its mostly due to BLM spreading lies about cops.

When you look at criminal records most shootings are justified. With eye witness testimonies, criminal history, whether they were a threat, radio trafficking, recording devices like phones (since everybody records everything), forensics, ballistics (science of firearms and projectiles), ect. There plenty of evidence to show most shootings are justified.

Black communities are less policed. Cops are more hesitant with blacks then with whites. Which is why crime is so high among blacks.
This is also true historically when racism was big in America. Racist whites didn't want to police black neighborhoods because they wanted blacks to keep killing each other. Nowadays they want to avoid being called a racist. Black cops kill blacks more than white cops do. Blacks kill blacks more than whites kill blacks.

Police reduces crime. This study shows with more cops the less crime happens. This is also true for many places around the world.
Countries with less police have higher rates of crime. People that are tying to get rid of the police force and trying to reduce police budget, "because they think they're making the place safer from cops," are actually making the place more dangerous for themselves.

Because of mass delusional people who shout crazy things without empirical evidence, and just making assumptions about police, now we have a country that thinks police are a source of evil. Those same people that say the police force is racist, goes around and break into buildings and burn cities to the ground, crying about an imaginary oppression thats all in there head. They take a few cases of bad cops and apply it to every cops. Im really tired of their shit tbh.

Instead of blaming cops we should be thanking cops. They put their life on the line to protect us. And instead people treat them like shit.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 7, 2017)

SG854 said:


> Pretty much. Most of the stuff about cops brutality is exaggerated. Cops get such a bad rep. Its mostly due to BLM spreading lies about cops.
> 
> When you look at criminal records most shootings are justified. With eye witness testimonies, criminal history, whether they were a threat, radio trafficking, recording devices like phones (since everybody records everything), forensics, ballistics (science of firearms and projectiles), ect. There plenty of evidence to show most shootings are justified.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's pretty sad when people are retaliating against the folks that keep their communities safe while basically ignoring actual criminal activity. BLM is a big umbrella, but they have a lot of nutjobs who basically play criminal apologists, saying it's the cops fault that crime occurs. At the end of the day, we all want safer neighborhoods and less crime, right? Well it's a shame people don't keep an open mind to seek out solutions that actually work or improve things and instead cling to their unfounded beliefs and just seek to confirm their biases instead of thinking critically to find actual solutions.


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## SG854 (Sep 7, 2017)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> Yeah, it's pretty sad when people are retaliating against the folks that keep their communities safe while basically ignoring actual criminal activity. BLM is a big umbrella, but they have a lot of nutjobs who basically play criminal apologists, saying it's the cops fault that crime occurs. At the end of the day, we all want safer neighborhoods and less crime, right? Well it's a shame people don't keep an open mind to seek out solutions that actually work or improve things and instead cling to their unfounded beliefs and just seek to confirm their biases instead of think critically to find actual solutions.


They are more destructive instead of being constructive. Instead of breaking into buildings and burning cars, why not help blacks get a better education or do something that can make there situation better.


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## RevPokemon (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Honestly I hate the "not all cops" argument, because while, yes, the majority of officers are not brutalizing or assaulting people, the majority ARE letting it slide... and the ones that are speaking out against it get fired, which shows just how corrupt people who wield power tend to get


Lord Acton warned us about this and it turns out he is true especially in the case of policing where they hold a state issued monopoly on the use of force....


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## SG854 (Sep 7, 2017)

When it comes to education blacks are less educated then any other race. They also have extremely high rate of growing up in homes with single mothers.
Father absence is a big predictor of whether or not they will go into crimes. Father absence leads to more crime, less likely to graduate, more likely to be poor, more likely to develop attention deficit disorder, less likely to be empathetic, more drug and alcohol use, ect. Kids need male role models and in black communities they are not getting it.

I find it hard to believe the single mother hood rate that sky rocketed since the civil rights movement, and that 13% of the population that commits about 50% of the crimes, which leads to blacks going to jail more is due to racism. I also find it hard to believe that America is more racist now than it was in the 1960's when the single motherhood was a lot lower.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

SG854 said:


> They are more destructive instead of being constructive. Instead of breaking into buildings and burning cars, why not help blacks get a better education or do something that can make there situation better.


You uh... realize they DO do stuff like that, right?...

This may blow your mind, but I've heard that even the Black Panthers organized free dinners and protection and emergency care to impoverished members of their community back in the day


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## SG854 (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> You uh... realize they DO do stuff like that, right?...
> 
> This may blow your mind, but the Black Panthers organized free dinners and protection and emergency care to impoverished members of their community


I'm talking about ones that don't do that. And instead being destructive.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 7, 2017)

Taleweaver said:


> I'd like to see those statistics. Because for one thing, I don't believe this world is becoming a safer place now that North Korea is doing that increased gun production thing.


http://www.factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/
I linked to that in my earlier post, it has the statistics I'm citing.
There's an excerpt from the analysis below the statistics:
"In 2008, we explored the issue of whether more gun ownership meant more or less gun violence. What we found, and it still holds true, was that some studies had shown a statistical relationship between those factors — areas with a higher prevalence of guns had higher prevalence of gun homicides and homicides in general. But studies haven’t been able to show a causal relationship — that the mere presence of guns, as opposed to other factors, caused the higher rates of gun violence."

Using the statistics and this analysis, I argue there's no way to determine causality between increased gun production and increased gun violence and therefore there are likely other factors also at play that need to at least be considered to get the whole picture.



Stephano said:


> Well, you are not wrong. Obesity is a problem. I honestly don't know how and why some people let themselves go like that. It's disgusting. Not to mention, the whole body positivity movement.
> While that is something to laugh at, its not exclusive to the US. Although its bigger here.
> Aside from obesity, i don't think there is that much to laugh at that can't be found anywhere else.
> I feel like a lot of the news that leaves the US is just over the top stuff. I like in small city where life is just normal. Nothing out of the ordinary and plenty of business to keep the place nice and it's citizens happy. Life in most places is just like everywhere else.
> But to be fare, i live in the south. It's different here than most places. People are kind and respectful. That's where the phrase "Southern Hospitality" comes from. There are places like West Memphis and Little Rock which have a lot of crime, but that's inevitable when you have large cities.



I like small city life. I don't live in Seattle proper, in the big metropolitan area with tall buildings and busy streets; I live in a quiet city/suburb in the area surrounding Seattle, and it's MUCH nicer than the big city. Nice people, good community, and basically a really pleasant place to live like you describe your city. If you want, check out this stark contrast: Seattle has a pretty high crime rate, but where I live not too far from Seattle, it's one of the safest towns in the country. You're right -- media will gobble up major stories from big cities while overlooking the entire rest of the nation's towns and cities where people generally live pretty peaceful lives.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

SG854 said:


> I'm talking about ones that don't do that.


Considering the fact that BLM is a fractured organization grounded in raising awareness and peacefully protesting, I'd blame the vocal and destructive minority creating factions counterproductive to the original movement and the press covering them rather than the organization itself


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## SG854 (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Considering the fact that BLM is a fractured organization grounded in raising awareness and peacefully protesting, I'd blame the vocal and destructive minority creating factions counterproductive to the original movement and the press covering them rather than the organization itself


The media always fucks up our perception about the world. 

If they are protesting the police force then they are protesting the wrong group.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

SG854 said:


> The media always fucks up our perception about the world.
> 
> If they are protesting the police force then they are protesting the wrong group.


... I mean, clearly if you're protesting a group of people who is systematically murdering your own people, I'd say you're protesting the right group


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## SG854 (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> ... I mean, clearly if you're protesting a group of people who is systematically murdering your own people, I'd say you're protesting the right group


Black cops kill blacks more then white cops do. If it was racism then why do black cops kill more then white cops. And no they are not being systemically attacked by cops for no reason. Many blacks are not in prisons for small crimes like jay walking, but for worse crimes. Just because there is a disparity in Prison populations doesn't automatically mean racism. Its much more complicate then that with many factors at play.

Blacks kids are less likely to graduate High School. Black shoot each other at rates much much higher then whites shoot each other. Single motherhood jumped from 20% to 70% since the civil rights movement. In 1950 it was 17%. Children growing up in single mother homes is more likely to lead to more crimes, lower graduation rates, more homicides, more likely to be poor, more likely to do drugs. Did racism cause all this. I find it really hard to believe that we are more racist as a country now then we were during Martin Luthers Kings time when he was fighting for black rights.

I also find it hard to believe that the government planted drugs in the black communities to try to arrest more blacks, like some claim. Thats like saying someone planted a gun in my car so that lead me to shoot people. There is no evidence that the government did that, and even if there was, its still their choice to sell drugs. No one forced them to sell drugs, its all their choice.


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## WeedZ (Sep 7, 2017)

@TotalInsanity4 I think this is the first time we've been in total agreement


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## WeedZ (Sep 7, 2017)

Oh wait. I have to argue a couple points



TotalInsanity4 said:


> You uh... realize they DO do stuff like that, right?...
> 
> This may blow your mind, but I've heard that even the Black Panthers organized free dinners and protection and emergency care to impoverished members of their community back in the day


The black panthers ended in the early 80s


TotalInsanity4 said:


> Considering the fact that BLM is a fractured organization grounded in raising awareness and peacefully protesting, I'd blame the vocal and destructive minority creating factions counterproductive to the original movement and the press covering them rather than the organization itself


BLM has been a violent movement from the beginning. It's well documented. That's why they're referred as a domestic terrorist organization.


TotalInsanity4 said:


> ... I mean, clearly if you're protesting a group of people who is systematically murdering your own people, I'd say you're protesting the right group


The police aren't systematically killing blacks. They kill everyone, it's not disproportionate for blacks either. The only reason the statistic is so high, and this might surprise you, but blacks commit more crime and kill far more than any other race in the US combined. Look at the latest gun death statistics. Something like 90% are black on black. If black lives matter they should do something about the violence in their own communities.

This is why I fucking hate BLM. You take a serious issue like police brutality, that we were gaining headway with, then you have another branch of the snowflake generation come in and fuck it up. Every group has their own victim niche, they chose one that made things a lot worse, cause now people support cops more than ever. Fucking over this generation "me" bullshit.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> @TotalInsanity4 I think this is the first time we've been in total agreement


No it's not, we've liked each other's posts before  I believe we also strongly agree on issues of ableism and vaccines 'n stuff



SG854 said:


> Black cops kill blacks more then white cops do. If it was racism then why do black cops kill more then white cops. And no they are not being systemically attacked by cops for no reason. Many blacks are not in prisons for small crimes like jay walking, but for worse crimes. Just because there is a disparity in Prison populations doesn't automatically mean racism. Its much more complicate then that with many factors at play.
> 
> Blacks kids are less likely to graduate High School. Black shoot each other at rates much much higher then whites shoot each other. Single motherhood jumped from 20% to 70% since the civil rights movement. In 1950 it was 17%. Children growing up in single mother homes is more likely to lead to more crimes, lower graduation rates, more homicides, more likely to be poor, more likely to do drugs. Did racism cause all this. I find it really hard to believe that we are more racist as a country now then we were during Martin Luthers Kings time when he was fighting for black rights.
> 
> I also find it hard to believe that the government planted drugs in the black communities to try to arrest more blacks, like some claim. Thats like saying someone planted a gun in my car so that lead me to shoot people. There is no evidence that the government did that, and even if there was, its still their choice to sell drugs. No one forced them to sell drugs, its all their choice.


'Scuse you, I've said absolutely nothing about racism so far, only of abuse of positions of power. I mean we can talk about that if you want, but don't project your own insecurities about how you view racial profiling by throwing unnecessarily defensive strawmen at me


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

If you look for any kind of news source for the general idea of what american cops are like, your view is corrupted.

The media itself can't cover every single act a police officer or "cop" does, so when drama happens they are the first to report it. You never see them talking about the police officer that didn't shoot a black person, did you?

I know 8 police officers and none of them act like this, none of them act above the law (well, one was riding is motorcycle on the sidewalk but I called him on it  ). Now, 8 compared to to thousands, maybe millions that live in this country is nothing. Hardly a drop in the bucket.
Well, that also means that what people see as "above the law" or "corrupt" is not even a drop in the bucket.

Also, notice how if it is anything *but* a white officer then they aren't found at fault? Just thought I'd note that.

And also this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...econd-guessing-themselves-20161006-story.html

If they are afraid to defend themselves and others because of the scrutiny they will get, then this country truly is pure hell.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> The black panthers ended in the early 80s


It's a timely parallel, though. And that's why I edited it to say "back in the day"


> BLM has been a violent movement from the beginning. It's well documented. That's why they're referred as a domestic terrorist organization.


Except it isn't, or at least not by any government organization that lists domestic terror groups that I'm finding


> The police aren't systematically killing blacks. They kill everyone, it's not disproportionate for blacks either. The only reason the statistic is so high, and this might surprise you, but blacks commit more crime and kill far more than any other race in the US combined. Look at the latest gun death statistics. Something like 90% are black on black. If black lives matter they should do something about the violence in their own communities.


The first bit is a fair, and I should have been clearer on my part as I always let my emotions lead with stuff like this; what I mean to say is that there is a very clear, objective problem of police officers panicking and killing unarmed civilians, black or otherwise, and then using their position of power to protect them from any repercussions of what is literally straight up murder by any other definition. BLM focuses on Black lives, because... well... it's theirs. Yes, "all lives matter," but as you've just demonstrated people tend to go out of their way to justify or rationalize why a black civilian was shot, while that is markedly not the case for white victims


> This is why I fucking hate BLM. You take a serious issue like police brutality, that we were gaining headway with, then you have another branch of the snowflake generation come in and fuck it up. Every group has they own victim niche, they chose one that made things a lot worse, cause now people support cops more than ever. Fucking over this generation "me" bullshit.


I guess I don't quite get what you're saying here

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



blujay said:


> The media itself can't cover every single act a police officer or "cop" does, so when drama happens they are the first to report it. You never see them talking about the police officer that didn't shoot a black person, did you?


"This just in: random-ass chemical plant in Utah is functioning properly and DOESN'T explode, leaving everyone in surrounding area living peacefully for another day."


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "This just in: random-ass chemical plant in Utah is functioning properly and DOESN'T explode, leaving everyone in surrounding area living peacefully for another day."


What I meant to get across is that they only focus on the drama, which heavily influences others opinions. I'm not saying the news is fake, or that it is always wrong, it just isn't a very reliable source unless you use different sources.


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## Quantumcat (Sep 7, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> I don't know where these borderline libelous statements came from, but without guns there is nothing stopping this nation from being a total police state. It's the threat of the militia and an armed revolution that keeps the federal government somewhat in check. That's why it was important enough to be the 2nd amendment to the constitution, right under freedom of speech.


Lol. Somehow Japan manages to be completely peaceful with nearly no guns and Australia very peaceful with very few guns. In Japan policemen are friends and you go to them for help, and in Australia at least you aren't generally afraid of them because you can trust them to only hurt bad guys. It's only in the US that the general public needs to fear for their life whenever a cop is around. Gun lovers hugging that second amendment is just like extremist Christians hugging particular awful statements in the bible that happen to align with their views. It's leftover from a previous era. Maybe in the 1800s a tyrant government was a risk, and maybe in the year 100 you really should behead someone who lay with someone of the same sex, but those things aren't relevant today. I can't prove that there's a link, but it seems unlikely to be a coincidence that the US has ten times more guns than anyone else and it's the country where police are scary and brutal, not trustworthy guardians like anywhere else. Maybe there's a third factor that is causing both of them.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> What I meant to get across is that they only focus on the drama, which heavily influences others opinions. I'm not saying the news is fake, or that it is always wrong, it just isn't a very reliable source unless you use different sources.


I'm not saying it's fake, I'm saying it's not worth it to report on things when they go as they should 

Since, you know, the idea of a police officer is to ensure the wellbeing of the people they serve


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Since, you know, the idea of a police officer is to ensure the wellbeing of the people they serve


I agree. But when the media focuses on the drama *and nothing good at all* that persuades people that police officers are all bad.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> I agree. But when the media focuses on the drama *and nothing good at all* that persuades people that police officers are all bad.


Well, are bad police officers bad?


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Well, are bad police officers bad?


_looks like I'm in a loop here
_
Bad police officers are bad. But the media only shows those, unintentionally sending the message that all cops are bad because that's all they show.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> _looks like I'm in a loop here
> _
> Bad police officers are bad. But the media only shows those, unintentionally sending the message that all cops are bad because that's all they show.


Humor me here, I'm tryin'a get a point across

Are cops that aren't doing something objectively harmful, but are aware of a bad cop's actions and will protect them and make excuses for them in a way that ensures there are no negative repercussions for them, bad?


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Humor me here, I'm tryin'a get a point across
> 
> Are cops that aren't doing something objectively harmful, but are aware of a bad cop's actions and will protect them and make excuses for them in a way that ensures there are no negative repercussions for them, bad?


No.

If I am a lawyer, and I defend another lawyer for murder, am I bad for defending them? (consider this in a court scenario)


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## RevPokemon (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> No.
> 
> If I am a lawyer, and I defend another lawyer for murder, am I bad for defending them? (consider this in a court scenario)


That is a question of law but the point is whether it is okay from a moral/ethical sense


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> No.
> 
> If I am a lawyer, and I defend another lawyer for murder, am I bad for defending them? (consider this in a court scenario)


That's an entirely different scenerio; the constitution gives citizens right to legal council, while the constitution does not protect law enforcement from legal repercussions from abuse of power

Edit: and what Rev said


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

RevPokemon said:


> That is a question of law but the point is whether it is okay from a moral/ethical sense


Just take out the courtroom sense and then tell me again.

If a cop defends another cop, regardless of their decision, I feel they are *not* bad because if they put them down, openly state they were wrong, it will only demean the police force.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> Just take out the courtroom sense and then tell me again.
> 
> If a cop defends another cop, regardless of their decision, I feel they are *not* bad because if they put them down, openly state they were wrong, it will only demean the police force.


Now hold on, I said "protect," not defend. And by that I mean anything from staying silent about morally gray issues to straight up fudging evidence in an internal investigation


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Now hold on, I said "protect," not defend. And by that I mean anything from staying silent about morally gray issues to straight up fudging evidence in an internal investigation


oh that's  not ok. i misread


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> oh that's  not ok. i misread


So we can agree there. Do you think it's fair to say that, in the case at least of the police officers that have shot someone and merely get paid leave, that such a thing would have to happen on a fairly regular basis in those specific departments?


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> So we can agree there. Do you think it's fair to say that, in the case at least of the police officers that have shot someone and merely get paid leave, that such a thing would have to happen on a fairly regular basis in those specific departments?


Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you mean that that needs to happen in those departments all the time just switching the officers?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 7, 2017)

blujay said:


> Can you elaborate a bit more? Do you mean that that needs to happen in those departments all the time just switching the officers?


No, I mean cover-ups and minor penalties for major offenses


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## Deleted User (Sep 7, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> No, I mean cover-ups and minor penalties for major offenses


Honestly, I think it is unfair to give them major penalties for major crimes. They work in such a gray area, that nobody can really say for sure what went through their mind when they shot the person, except the officer themself.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 8, 2017)

blujay said:


> Honestly, I think it is unfair to give them major penalties for major crimes. They work in such a gray area, that nobody can really say for sure what went through their mind when they shot the person, except the officer themself.


Except body cams


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## Deleted User (Sep 8, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Except body cams





blujay said:


> nobody can really say for sure *what went through their mind*


Body cams can't do that. They can just show what they registered. And certain things may only be found after hours of watching the footage, whereas the officer had 1 singular moment to do so with only one set of eyes, not multiple. Body cams don't really justify anything unless it provides evidence the offer knew everything about the situation before hand


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 8, 2017)

blujay said:


> Body cams can't do that. They can just show what they registered. And certain things may only be found after hours of watching the footage, whereas the officer had 1 singular moment to do so with only one set of eyes, not multiple. Body cams don't really justify anything unless it provides evidence the offer knew everything about the situation before hand


I mean, when you're in a line of work that requires rigerous training and the knowledge that there's the potential for your own death before you sign up, reactions really should be pretty consistent across the board with a given stimulus. There should realistically be no scenario in which an officer gets so panicked by an unarmed civilian that their first instinct is to drop them


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## Deleted User (Sep 8, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I mean, when you're in a line of work that requires rigerous training and the knowledge that there's the potential for your own death before you sign up, reactions really should be pretty consistent across the board with a given stimulus. There should realistically be no scenario in which an officer gets so panicked by an unarmed civilian that their first instinct is to drop them


I see your point.

In all honesty, I'm kind of tired of arguing this today.

Don't get me wrong, I would have quit a *long* time ago if you hadn't been so respectful while arguing.


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## Quantumcat (Sep 8, 2017)

blujay said:


> Body cams can't do that. They can just show what they registered. And certain things may only be found after hours of watching the footage, whereas the officer had 1 singular moment to do so with only one set of eyes, not multiple. Body cams don't really justify anything unless it provides evidence the offer knew everything about the situation before hand


If they don't know what's going on, their first choice shouldn't be to shoot though.
Edit: Ninja'd better by @TotalInsanity4


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 8, 2017)

blujay said:


> Don't get me wrong, I would have quit a *long* time ago if you hadn't been so respectful while arguing.


'preciate it, man, thanks


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## osaka35 (Sep 8, 2017)

leafeon34 said:


> By now most of us have seen that viral youtube video of the nurse getting arrested.
> 
> The comments on the video seem to portray America as some fucked up place where the cops think themselves kings and this is the one occasion where their corruption was exposed. I doubt this is true, YouTube comments are not a very reliable source of information.
> 
> ...


The standards aren't the highest. Just be fit and be able to know how to enforce the law. And even those aren't exactly enforced if they're really hurting for new hires. That attracts mainly two kinds of people. People who want to serve and protect, and people who want the power. You're never sure which is which, because it's hard to keep cops. It's a hard job. 

So the cops will try and protect their own because they never know when the next person they pull over is going to pull a gun on them. From the civilian's perspective, you never know if the cop talking to you is the person who wants to help people, or the bully in highschool who still wants to give people swirlies. Only instead of sticking their head in toilets and flushing, they want to pull their guns and be a badass. Or they're in way over their head, under-trained and unprepared, and shoot because they get scared. Same result.

It's bad here. We keep our nose clean because we don't want to die at the hands of our police officers. It's bad.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 8, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> The standards aren't the highest. Just be fit and be able to know how to enforce the law. That attracts mainly two kinds of people. People who want to serve and protect, and people who want the power. You're never sure which is which, because it's hard to keep cops. It's a hard job. So they try and protect their own because you never know when the next person you're going to pull over is going to pull a gun on you. From the civilian's perspective, you never know if the cop talking to you is the person who wants to help people, or the bully in highschool who still wants to give people swirlies. Only instead of sticking their head in toilets and flushing, they want to pull their gun and be a badass.
> 
> It's bad here. We keep our nose clean because we don't want to die at the hands of our police officers. It's bad.


That's honestly one of the best analysis I've ever read on the subject


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## Quantumcat (Sep 8, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> you never know when the next person you're going to pull over is going to pull a gun on you.


Exactly


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## Deleted User (Sep 8, 2017)

osaka35 said:


> The standards aren't the highest. Just be fit and be able to know how to enforce the law. And even those aren't exactly enforced if they're really hurting for new hires. That attracts mainly two kinds of people. People who want to serve and protect, and people who want the power. You're never sure which is which, because it's hard to keep cops. It's a hard job. So they try and protect their own because you never know when the next person you're going to pull over is going to pull a gun on you. From the civilian's perspective, you never know if the cop talking to you is the person who wants to help people, or the bully in highschool who still wants to give people swirlies. Only instead of sticking their head in toilets and flushing, they want to pull their gun and be a badass.
> 
> It's bad here. We keep our nose clean because we don't want to die at the hands of our police officers. It's bad.


shit this was my opinion all along i just can't express myself D:


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## rileysrjay (Sep 8, 2017)

I guess part of it depends where you live. Here in small town north GA it's pretty quiet and the city cops are a bunch of good ol boys who don't really do anything. I have a lot of respect for the county ones though, we have a lot of meth heads and Marijuana growers in our county and they do a lot of drug busts and risk their lives everyday. But when it comes to Atlanta area, it's a different story. I'm scared for my life sometimes down there from both criminals and cops. Granted down there you probably see a lot more action as a cop and deal with some pretty messed up stuff. Probably the higher crime rate and higher likelihood of getting shot or attacked as a cop there make cops more "jumpy" or "trigger happy"/ likely to use their gun since they really don't know what they're walking into. Still not a good excuse for the gun violence from cops like mentioned earlier in the thread though. Also acting like the entire country is like the areas where cop violence is a thing is a bunch of crap.


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## Xzi (Sep 8, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> I guess part of it depends where you live.


Very much so.  The cops in my area are great...up until the point where you ask them to deal with homeless people walking down the middle of the street in two lanes.  Being too lenient is definitely preferable to shooting first and asking questions later, though, and that's known to happen in much of the country.  A lot of the bad cops feel empowered with Trump as president, especially after the speech he gave to police.  Worse is Jeff Sessions giving them military equipment again, after that experiment failed badly once already.  The country as a whole is more a police state now than we were two, three years ago.  Two, three years ago cops were already being let off the hook for any crimes they commit as well.


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## rileysrjay (Sep 8, 2017)

Xzi said:


> Very much so.  The cops in my area are great...up until the point where you ask them to deal with homeless people walking down the middle of the street in two lanes.  Being too lenient is definitely preferable to shooting first and asking questions later, though, and that's known to happen in much of the country.  A lot of the bad cops feel empowered with Trump as president, especially after the speech he gave to police.  Worse is Jeff Sessions giving them military equipment again, after that experiment failed badly once already.  The country as a whole is more a police state now than we were two, three years ago.  Two, three years ago cops were already being let off the hook for any crimes they commit as well.


Most of the bad cops in my area are actually state patrol officers, not city or county. I've heard two or three stories of gsp officers who let power get to there head. Granted most of those in the stories have been fired since but I'm sure there's more out there.


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## Deleted User (Sep 8, 2017)

I largely agree with @RustInPeace said.  The U.S. is a big country, bigger than many countries combined, and unironically classifying it in terms of black and white is flawed, misleading, and all-around ignorant.  This should go for all countries, not just the U.S.

I haven't had much experience with the police here in America, however, most cops I've met seem like decent human beings.  The media here tends to distort facts and make mountains out of molehills for ratings.  Fox News typically got flak for this, but nowadays, CNN is the more acceptable target.  They're both hugely biased and trying to push their own agendas, which is insufferable, considering they are _news _organizations, and should be supplying people with news.

I understand the argument that cops need to be cautious, lest the person they're investigating be brandishing a knife or a gun.  I guess this falls back to the controversial Second Amendment, which argues the right to bear arms.  The Founding Fathers kept this in the Constitution in case the government grow corrupt and rebellion necessary.  However, I believe at that point, 

the government would have banned guns already, and  

the rebels likely wouldn't have much regard for the government's laws at that point anyways.
I wouldn't feel myself impacted by gun control laws, in all honesty.  No one I know owns a gun, and I don't have guns at my place anyways.  Considering this is the direction developed countries seem to be going in, I think it would be for the better, in the long run.


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## Quantumcat (Sep 8, 2017)

B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> most cops I've met seem like decent human beings.





B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> I wouldn't feel myself impacted by gun control laws, in all honesty.  No one I know owns a gun, and I don't have guns at my place anyways


Maybe the reason police in your area seem to be good people is the very fact that there aren't a lot of guns around where you live?


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## Deleted User (Sep 8, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Maybe the reason police in your area seem to be good people is the very fact that there aren't a lot of guns around where you live?


Perhaps that could be a factor.

I live in this neighborhood fairly close to Boston, and the people here in Boston are very liberal-minded, so that could be another factor.


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## Viri (Sep 8, 2017)

I live in a major city, and never had any issues, or seen anyone have any issues with the cops, might be my area. There are much much shittier areas in the city, but, I stay away from those areas obv. I have only seen the cops pull out a gun on a person once in my life. Once there was a guy fleeing the cops, I forgot why(this was in 2006). The guy banged on our door, I didn't think much of it, it was around 5ish pm, I answer it, he shoves me out of the way, and seconds later,  the cops are aiming a gun at him to get on the ground. He got arrested, and that's that.


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## rileysrjay (Sep 8, 2017)

Viri said:


> I live in a major city, and never had any issues, or seen anyone have any issues with the cops, might be my area. There are much much shittier areas in the city, but, I stay away from those areas obv. I have only seen the cops pull out a gun on a person once in my life. Once there was a guy fleeing the cops, I forgot why(this was in 2006). The guy banged on our door, I didn't think much of it, it was around 5ish pm, I answer it, he shoves me out of the way, and seconds later,  the cops are aiming a gun at him to get on the ground. He got arrested, and that's that.


Probably the area your in. In Atlanta areas like Buckhead are really nice and don't have too many issues but other areas around downtown are terrible. I wouldn't go out in those areas at night due to the fear of getting mugged or shot.


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Sep 8, 2017)

leafeon34 said:


> By now most of us have seen that viral youtube video of the nurse getting arrested.
> 
> The comments on the video seem to portray America as some fucked up place where the cops think themselves kings and this is the one occasion where their corruption was exposed. I doubt this is true, YouTube comments are not a very reliable source of information.
> 
> ...


Can't speak for everyone, since the US is a very diverse place (only slightly smaller than Europe, and European countries can be very different, just like different states) but the people in Florida, where I live, are all good folks that would never do something like that. We've been prepping for a hurricane all week and everyone's been so neighborly that I feel blessed to be around them. And I think it's worth mentioning that my next door neighbor is a cop, and he's the kindest person in the entire neighborhood, very different from the guy who arrested that nurse (just like most cops probably are).

Apart from my neighborhood, Florida has always been a great place to live. I'm sure it's different in other parts of the US, but everyone here seems to respect one another, whether we be white, black, Hispanic, Muslim, or anything else (and just to tackle the issue, even the people who voted for trump respect others, I hate the guy but don't believe that everyone who likes him is horrible). I wasn't born in the US but I still feel like I have a part here, and that's thanks to the wonderful folks around me.

Those cops in the video are terrible, but please don't let them represent all the other 320 million of us. Most of us are good people who love one another and our country.


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## tatripp (Sep 8, 2017)

That was a bad incident, but that is extremely rare. We just see so much of the few bad incidents that happen that everyone think the cops are bad. Officers in America have to deal with some of the worst crap. 

For example some guy with an axe was approaching random people at Burger King in my town.The cops had to shoot him for everyone's safety. http://www.pe.com/2016/09/17/beaumo...h-hatchet-near-burger-king-police-say-update/ 
 Some other guy was driving around town shooting people at random. He killed two people and injured others. Oh yeah, and this was the friend of my mom's son. http://ktla.com/2015/09/26/2-dead-1-injured-in-banning-shootings-1-person-in-custody-official/
 Someone who I had classes with in high school decided to murder someone (probably for drugs). https://patch.com/california/bannin...transients-arrested-1-sought-details-released 
They locked down the high school on a weekend because a crazy guy nearby locked himself in his house and was armed. He killed himself.
If you drive in the bad side of town, you see a lot of gang members. Some of them have the teardrop tattoo which means they killed someone.
There is a huge drug problem, poverty, theft, domestic abuse, etc. in my town.
There was a high speed chase near the high school a few days ago.
I saw a drug deal outside a small liquor store. One of the parties brought his children with him in strollers.
Another friend from high school got arrested for having a lot of explosives in his car. He also had a ton in his house in some underground bunker. He wasn't a bad guy though. He was more of a doomsday prepper type of person. I ironically had chemistry with him in high school.
Some ghetto guy was threatening to beat his girl outside of my house. She may have been a prostitute. He didn't even mind that I was standing outside. I called the cops. I currently live in a nicer part of town.
There is an illegal "massage" parlor in town (if you know what I mean).
There are a ton of homeless people coming to town. I think big cities are sending them to us. These homeless people are definitely on all kinds of drugs. One of them was speaking crazy talk to me one time.
Some guy stole a 5 foot tall statue from a local church and tried to sell it at his yard sale.
People steal daily from the local outlet stores and no one does anything about it.
This is a small quiet town in beautiful southern California. Imagine what cops in the cities have to deal with.


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 8, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> Lol. Somehow Japan manages to be completely peaceful with nearly no guns and Australia very peaceful with very few guns. In Japan policemen are friends and you go to them for help, and in Australia at least you aren't generally afraid of them because you can trust them to only hurt bad guys. It's only in the US that the general public needs to fear for their life whenever a cop is around. Gun lovers hugging that second amendment is just like extremist Christians hugging particular awful statements in the bible that happen to align with their views. It's leftover from a previous era. Maybe in the 1800s a tyrant government was a risk, and maybe in the year 100 you really should behead someone who lay with someone of the same sex, but those things aren't relevant today. I can't prove that there's a link, but it seems unlikely to be a coincidence that the US has ten times more guns than anyone else and it's the country where police are scary and brutal, not trustworthy guardians like anywhere else. Maybe there's a third factor that is causing both of them.


The US government is a tyranny sorry to say. Look at the controlled substances act, the federal government has control over your body and mind. Let's not forget the many provisions of the Patriot Act that allow the government to imprison someone on the suspicion of terrorism without due process. I could be arrested right now for suggesting a violent overthrow is the only solution to any form of liberty in this godforsaken country.


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## tatripp (Sep 8, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Honestly I hate the "not all cops" argument, because while, yes, the majority of officers are not brutalizing or assaulting people, the majority ARE letting it slide... and the ones that are speaking out against it get fired, which shows just how corrupt people who wield power tend to get


No they are not. What proof do you have of that? Police brutality is not a widespread issue in America.


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## rileysrjay (Sep 8, 2017)

tatripp said:


> No they are not. What proof do you have of that? Police brutality is not a widespread issue in America.


Um, I'm confused. he said police brutality wasn't a widespread problem in that post (please correct me if I'm wrong @TotalInsanity4 ). What part are you asking about? The part where he said police weren't calling each other out?


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## Quantumcat (Sep 8, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> The US government is a tyranny sorry to say. Look at the controlled substances act, the federal government has control over your body and mind. Let's not forget the many provisions of the Patriot Act that allow the government to imprison someone on the suspicion of terrorism without due process. I could be arrested right now for suggesting a violent overthrow is the only solution to any form of liberty in this godforsaken country.


If that's the case, and the guns are supposed to stop that from happening, haven't they failed?


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## rileysrjay (Sep 8, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> The US government is a tyranny sorry to say. Look at the controlled substances act, the federal government has control over your body and mind. Let's not forget the many provisions of the Patriot Act that allow the government to imprison someone on the suspicion of terrorism without due process. I could be arrested right now for suggesting a violent overthrow is the only solution to any form of liberty in this godforsaken country.


Some older guys at the local waffle House got arrested on terrorist charges recently because they were talking about building a bomb. From what I've heard they were just curious about it, they weren't actually planning to do anything with it.


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 8, 2017)

Quantumcat said:


> If that's the case, and the guns are supposed to stop that from happening, haven't they failed?


Maybe no one's felt things are bad enough to say "what gives you the right?" yet. I hope that day comes soon. It would take a rather long campaign to gather enough supporters not to mention acquiring the firearms capable of defending against the US Military.

As for the police, I blame the lack of proper training. Isn't the sidearm supposed to be the last resort? In most encounters with the police, I've noticed they like to put their hand on their gun while talking to you. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be some intimidation tactic, or if they're just hoping for some "action." There are plenty of nonlethal options available to officers that a gun should be the absolute last thought in their head.

And what is it with every cop treating every citizen like they're some sort of criminal no matter the encounter? I remember the greeters at Wal-Mart used to do the same shit until they realized it was bad for business.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 8, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Um, I'm confused. he said police brutality wasn't a widespread problem in that post (please correct me if I'm wrong @TotalInsanity4 ). What part are you asking about? The part where he said police weren't calling each other out?


Nope, you understood it correctly


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## rileysrjay (Sep 8, 2017)

Subtle Demise said:


> Maybe no one's felt things are bad enough to say "what gives you the right?" yet. I hope that day comes soon. It would take a rather long campaign to gather enough supporters not to mention acquiring the firearms capable of defending against the US Military.
> 
> As for the police, I blame the lack of proper training. Isn't the sidearm supposed to be the last resort? In most encounters with the police, I've noticed they like to put their hand on their gun while talking to you. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be some intimidation tactic, or if they're just hoping for some "action." There are plenty of nonlethal options available to officers that a gun should be the absolute last thought in their head.
> 
> And what is it with every cop treating every citizen like they're some sort of criminal no matter the encounter? I remember the greeters at Wal-Mart used to do the same shit until they realized it was bad for business.


The day when the people would be able to stand up against the government is a long ways off. I also think that a "revolution" would end poorly for both sides due to the likelihood of a foreign power taking advantage of a revolution and taking over the u.s. when it's at its weakest.


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## Viri (Sep 8, 2017)

The thought of a US uprising has China and Russia licking their chops.


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## tatripp (Sep 9, 2017)

rileysrjay said:


> Um, I'm confused. he said police brutality wasn't a widespread problem in that post (please correct me if I'm wrong @TotalInsanity4 ). What part are you asking about? The part where he said police weren't calling each other out?


Yep. I dun goofed. I meant the part about that cops aren't calling each other out. My bad.


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## brickmii82 (Sep 9, 2017)

I literally just got out of jail. Most cops aren't bad. Most are just doing their job and want to go home at the end of their shift. This shit gets over-sensationalized by the media in regards to rate of occurrences. Do some cops pull BS? Yeah, mostly due to poor screening and training. Do most cops? Hell no. Most are pretty cool, even if you're on the opposite side of the law.

 

Ijs....


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