# Deportations Up in Midwest Under Trump



## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 26, 2018)

I saw this earlier in one of my local papers and forgot to post it, but here we are:

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/i...cle_99f75429-aa92-5c62-af8d-9fc86acc83c2.html



> ... enforcement did not just focus on immigrants with a criminal history. The number of deportations of immigrants without a criminal conviction jumped 74 percent from the 2016 to 2017 budget years, and the number of arrests nearly tripled.





> Immigration arrests are up 67 percent and deportations 55 percent in the region that includes Iowa, according to the data.
> 
> 
> “I can only speak for the Latino immigrants and the undocumented, and there is a lot of fear, a lot of apprehension and uncertainty,” Michael Reyes, who is from Davenport and is the state director of Iowa’s chapter of the League of United Latin American Citizens, told the bureau last year. “There are things that are happening now as a result of this current administration, and it’s got (immigrants living in the country without full legal status) in fear.”


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## nero99 (Feb 26, 2018)

Good. If you're not here legally, then you don't need to be here. Wonder how many people this is going to trigger


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 26, 2018)

nero99 said:


> Good. If you're not here legally, then you don't need to be here. Wonder how many people this is going to trigger


I'm not "triggered," but I guess I'm going to ask you to defend your position


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## Kioku_Dreams (Feb 26, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I'm not "triggered," but I guess I'm going to ask you to defend your position


There's nothing to defend. The law applies to everyone.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 26, 2018)

Memoir said:


> There's nothing to defend. The law applies to everyone.


There are plenty of things that can be defended by "because it's legal" or "because it's illegal"

Jaywalking and marijuana possession both come to mind, both of which are incredibly non-violent offences


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## tivanh (Feb 26, 2018)

We live on a planet where some see us as human being on a planet called earth and others see as a planet devided by race, religion, class etc.

The division is propagated and fueled by the less than 1% who control 99% of the worlds money and resources. They keep us divided to maintain power and control otherwise we would unite in love for eachother and our host planet earth. They would lose everything, corporations would need to change to support life and the environment halting the mass consumerism we see today and also the disparity between the rich and the poor would be leveled. Land rights and mortgages would be squashed giving people more time with eachother and to develope them selves internally.

We are nothing more than free range slaves to the less than 1% and many of us blindly support that with great conviction due to the propaganda. There is no need to argue about this and cause more division. People are slowly waking up to the world and them selves.

Try to be good to eachother and have compassion. Put your self in others shoes and try to understand all our core values are the same. We all want to be loved, exprees love, livevin peace with a stable roof over our head and a steady food supply for ourselves and family. Surely if strip away the propaganda we have taken on, these cores we share should help promote  unity and change for the betterment of all. Your politicians and corperation will never support you and these ideas. They are out for themselves and know if they keep you devided you will scapegoat eachother for the worlds ill, instead of focusing on them and the truth.

Anyway, something to think about.
My Love to you all.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

What is a law but a idea agreed upon by the many. It is nothing more. It is easy for those in control to present an idea and spin it to the many under the guise of betterment, security, etc when they use your already grown fears that they instilled with deception.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Feb 26, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> There are plenty of things that can be defended by "because it's legal" or "because it's illegal"
> 
> Jaywalking and marijuana possession both come to mind, both of which are incredibly non-violent offences



Don't go grasping for straws.


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## Xzi (Feb 26, 2018)

nero99 said:


> Good. If you're not here legally, then you don't need to be here. Wonder how many people this is going to trigger


Thing is, I'd prefer keeping the illegals who actually contribute to society and deporting the useless fucking Trump supporters who are mostly welfare/disability recipients mooching on the system.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Feb 26, 2018)

tivanh said:


> We live on a planet where some see us as human being on a planet called earth and others see as a planet devided by race, religion, class etc.
> 
> The division is propagated and fueled by the less than 1% who control 99% of the worlds money and resources. They keep us divided to maintain power and control otherwise we would unite in love for eachother and our host planet earth. They would lose everything, corporations would need to change to support life and the environment halting the mass consumerism we see today and also the disparity between the rich and the poor would be leveled. Land rights and mortgages would be squashed giving people more time with eachother and to develope them selves internally.
> 
> ...


Nonsense like this is why chaos runs rampant.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Thing is, I'd prefer keeping the illegals who actually contribute to society and deporting the useless fucking Trump supporters who are mostly welfare/disability recipients who mooch on the system.



Just one thread without your biased hatred, thanks.

Say what you want. If they have made no attempt to become a citizen, or are here unlawfully they need to leave. The uneducated responses that only stem from personal belief are not beneficial.


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## Xzi (Feb 26, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Just one thread without your biased hatred, thanks.


It's biased to believe these people deserve to be deported when they've done nothing criminal.  There's a new MAGA tard shooting up a school every other week it seems, so IMO deportation would solve a lot.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Feb 26, 2018)

Xzi said:


> It's biased to believe these people deserve to be deported when they've done nothing criminal.  There's a new MAGA tard shooting up a school every other week it seems, so IMO deportation would solve a lot.


"done nothing criminal"

Just broke the law. Don't worry about it. Trumps issues have nothing to do with the immigration problem. It's been happening since well before Trump even thought of running for president. I have no issue with immigrants following due process. There are some that just come here and just live like they've been here their whole lives.


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## Xzi (Feb 26, 2018)

Memoir said:


> "done nothing criminal"
> 
> Just broke the law. Don't worry about it.


AKA walked across the border.  That was their illegal act.  Compare that to the president laundering money for foreign countries and lining his pockets with taxpayer money.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know who deserves to be deported more in this comparison.

And fuck, that's just Trump.  His supporters like to send death threats to high school shooting survivors.  We don't need these people in America.  Let them go live in Russia if they love it so much.


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## DeslotlCL (Feb 26, 2018)

Just wondering... how difficult is for a poor family, who is seeking for better life oportunities that its own country couldnt give, to get proper documentation? Do they actually give them a chance to get proper documentation or to seek for help in that matter?


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## nando (Feb 26, 2018)

Memoir said:


> There's nothing to defend. The law applies to everyone.




this one in particular seems to apply mostly to brown people


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## Xzi (Feb 26, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> Just wondering... how difficult is for a poor family, who is seeking for better life oportunities that its own country couldnt give, to get proper documentation? Do they actually give them a chance to get proper documentation or to seek for help in that matter?


It depends on the country, but in most places poor people are even worse off than they are in America, and they're afforded no help in immigrating legally.


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## DeslotlCL (Feb 26, 2018)

Xzi said:


> It depends on the country, but in most places poor people are even worse off than they are in America, and they're afforded no help in immigrating legally.


Then there is the point i was looking for. The US is not giving the chance or helping families that could need documentation to be legally there. From what it sounds like, they just deport everyone ilegally non american out of the country without even helping the ones who really need to be there and have no other options.


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## Joe88 (Feb 26, 2018)

Xzi said:


> It's biased to believe these people deserve to be deported when they've done nothing criminal.  There's a new MAGA tard shooting up a school every other week it seems, so IMO deportation would solve a lot.





Xzi said:


> AKA walked across the border.  That was their illegal act.  Compare that to the president laundering money for foreign countries and lining his pockets with taxpayer money.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know who deserves to be deported more in this comparison.
> 
> And fuck, that's just Trump.  His supporters like to send death threats to high school shooting survivors.  We don't need these people in America.  Let them go live in Russia if they love it so much.


This is what liberal insanity looks like


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## Xzi (Feb 26, 2018)

DeslotlCL said:


> Then there is the point i was looking for. The US is not giving the chance or helping families that could need documentation to be legally there. From what it sounds like, they just deport everyone ilegally non american out of the country without even helping the ones who really need to be there and have no other options.


Paths to citizenship have been proposed of course (by Democrats), and always rejected (by Republicans).



nando said:


> this one in particular seems to apply mostly to brown people


Yes it's sad how quickly people forget.  It wasn't that long ago in history that Irish people were being turned away from America's shores.  Now they're afforded all the same rights as any white people in America, which unfortunately means turning Trump supporter for a lot of them.  That in turn means they're suppressing another nationality of people just trying to get in and live the American dream.  Though I suppose that mostly died for brown/black people the night Trump was elected.



Joe88 said:


> This is what liberal insanity looks like


I should note that's all like half /s, I shouldn't have to explain which parts.


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## ThisIsDaAccount (Feb 26, 2018)

I'm not gonna blame Trump for deporting anyone who is here illegally, just because when they are here as such we don't get a chance to see their past (i.e. criminal) history. I don't think illegal immigrants are more prone to criminal behavior (if anything, I think they are less likely to be criminals) but it's still a necessary process. 

That said, I see no reason why we shouldn't increase the amount of legal immigration slots available to them. This country's success was built on the hard work of immigrants, they've always done great things. We should give them all a chance to come legally.


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## CallmeBerto (Mar 7, 2018)

Sounds good to me. The US along with any other country has the right to decide who comes here.

However I do believe that we need to streamline the immigration process. No reason it should take years to become legal.


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## smf (Apr 4, 2018)

Memoir said:


> There's nothing to defend. The law applies to everyone.



I hope you're made illegal. Man made laws are not sacred.

"_First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist._

_Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist._

_Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew._

_Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
_


ThisIsDaAccount said:


> That said, I see no reason why we shouldn't increase the amount of legal immigration slots available to them.




That wouldn't be exploitative enough. You need to keep up the idea of us and them caused by a genetic lottery that you happened to be born where they want to go, so that you can keep them as an under class. It's all part of the power play.

What you don't get is that you are also part of the under class and you're playing your part for rich white men like Trump. Not only that, but people actually voted for it like it's something you would want.


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## MadonnaProject (Apr 15, 2018)

Well done. Immigrants are all well and good if they come to a country to enjoy its privileges and accept its values. However most of them run from their home countries to get away from that culture but end up bringing the baggage and damage from such cultures to the west. Sorry, go back.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 15, 2018)

MadonnaProject said:


> Well done. Immigrants are all well and good if they come to a country to enjoy its privileges and accept its values. However most of them run from their home countries to get away from that culture but end up bringing the baggage and damage from such cultures to the west. Sorry, go back.


What? Give an example?


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## Captain_N (Apr 15, 2018)

Good. I'm all for immigration. I'm for LEGAL Immigration. My family came to the USA in the 1920's to oppressive governments. They game over legally. I still have my grand parents documents from Ellis Island. They came to America got jobs and wanted to speak English. They wanted to melt in the pot. Doing so made them feel American. These are not my words but my grand parents.


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 15, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> Good. I'm all for immigration. I'm for LEGAL Immigration. My family came to the USA in the 1920's to oppressive governments. They game over legally. I still have my grand parents documents from Ellis Island. They came to America got jobs and wanted to speak English. They wanted to melt in the pot. Doing so made them feel American. These are not my words but my grand parents.


It's completely different now. Do you think these people want to be "illegal"? If there was a way to do it legally, they would do it. The problem is it's next to impossible for a Mexican living in poverty to immigrate legally.

This picture sums it up.


Spoiler


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 15, 2018)

Captain_N said:


> Good. I'm all for immigration. I'm for LEGAL Immigration. My family came to the USA in the 1920's to oppressive governments. They game over legally. I still have my grand parents documents from Ellis Island. They came to America got jobs and wanted to speak English. They wanted to melt in the pot. Doing so made them feel American. These are not my words but my grand parents.


It's a LOT harder to immigrate now. You can't just take a boat to Ellis Island and have your name documented after having a few questions asked, now you have to submit a request (and in many cases an appeal), have your papers sit in a stack for ages, get a background check done and submitted, and then wait for an open slot which can take over 20 years in some cases


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## Captain_N (Apr 15, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's a LOT harder to immigrate now. You can't just take a boat to Ellis Island and have your name documented after having a few questions asked, now you have to submit a request (and in many cases an appeal), have your papers sit in a stack for ages, get a background check done and submitted, and then wait for an open slot which can take over 20 years in some cases



I'm with ya. The main reason there is so much illegal immigration  on is likely due to our failing immigration system.
There needs to be a good immigration system in place so the immigration that want to be part of our great nation can get in legally.


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## The Catboy (Apr 15, 2018)

I often find it sad that a country run entirely on immigrants and the children of immigrants feel so superior over other immigrants. Not to mention so many people are defending a very alarming practice when you look to history about mass deportation.


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## smile72 (Apr 19, 2018)

Seriously my position is gonna be attacked. But if you are in America questionably you should at least live in a sanctuary county or city (in the Midwest only Cook (in Illinois) and 3 or 4 counties in Iowa are sanctuary areas) However Scott County (Davenport) is not one of them. It's at least slightly less risky I imagine. However my belief is that our immigration system is horrible and extremely confusing. It's also broken. Which is why there are such long wait times. And also the fees. The fees are horrible as well.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 19, 2018)

smile72 said:


> Seriously my position is gonna be attacked. But if you are in America questionably you should at least live in a sanctuary county or city (in the Midwest only Cook (in Illinois) and 3 or 4 counties in Iowa are sanctuary areas) However Scott County (Davenport) is not one of them. It's at least slightly less risky I imagine. However my belief is that our immigration system is horrible and extremely confusing. It's also broken. Which is why there are such long wait times. And also the fees. The fees are horrible as well.


Considering Davenport is home to the German American Heritage Center and Museum, which celebrates the hardships of and path of immigration up the Mississippi River, which it sits on, I would EXPECT them to be accepting of both documented and undocumented immigrants, especially if I were one of them. I suppose that's a trap that one would fall into, though


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## WiiUBricker (Apr 19, 2018)

What does it take exactly to be classified as legal immigrant in america?


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## The Catboy (Apr 19, 2018)

WiiUBricker said:


> What does it take exactly to be classified as legal immigrant in america?


The USA.gov gives the world's most vague qualifications.
Seriously


> A person of good moral character


Fucking so clear ;O;
From the countless immigrants I've met, the process is just a long and needlessly tedious process that is just all over the place with no real logical method.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 19, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The USA.gov gives the world's most vague qualifications.
> Seriously
> 
> Fucking so clear ;O;
> From the countless immigrants I've met, the process is just a long and needlessly tedious process that is just all over the place with no real logical method.


Oh it gets better. Follow the rabbit hole of links down to look at what the requirements for getting a Green Card are


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## The Catboy (Apr 19, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Oh it gets better. Follow the rabbit hole of links down to look at what the requirements for getting a Green Card are


I've seen the tests they have to take, most basically can be summed up with, "You have the be more American than any American, ever!" It's just shocking how much they have to invest, considering most Americans would fail to be American.


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## CMDreamer (Apr 19, 2018)

nero99 said:


> Good. If you're not here legally, then you don't need to be here. Wonder how many people this is going to trigger



Imagine just for a moment, how many illegal people are in that country that do a job that those who are legaly there don't want to do. Now imagine that all of them get deported, do you really think all legal people will take those jobs?



Memoir said:


> There's nothing to defend. The law applies to everyone.



I'm not defending anything, I'm just using my common sense, something that most people who judge this matter doesn't.

And let me add that a wall is by no means an answer for that, its just a concept to justify their limited understanding of the real fact. And by extension, their limitation to offer better solutions. Pretending to build a wall just proves their limited thinking, by creating limits instead of taking advantage of them.


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## Joe88 (Apr 19, 2018)

CMDreamer said:


> Imagine just for a moment, how many illegal people are in that country that do a job that those who are legaly there don't want to do. Now imagine that all of them get deported, do you really think all legal people will take those jobs?


If companies are actually willing to give a decent wage those jobs then yes.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 19, 2018)

Joe88 said:


> If companies are actually willing to give a decent wage those jobs then yes.


There's no incentive for them to with such a low minimum wage


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## invaderyoyo (Apr 19, 2018)

Joe88 said:


> If companies are actually willing to give a decent wage those jobs then yes.


What would you consider a decent wage for picking fruit?


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## spotanjo3 (Apr 19, 2018)

The illegal immigration really exist here as well in Europe. The fault is the law system. They should know better that many people fly anywhere for vacation then decided to staying anywhere illegally. The travel agency should notify that people overstayed anywhere should be arrest. Well, the law was weak and still today. Trump is not going to deportation illegal immigration back to South America and in Europe 100 percent anyway. That's difficult. Sorry about my English. Arggh!


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 19, 2018)

azoreseuropa said:


> The travel agency should notify that people overstayed anywhere should be arrest.


That's already somewhat the case. If you fly anywhere, you have to fill out a form with your passport number and identifying info so they can both send lost luggage to you and I assume notify immigration control when a person has landed back in their home country


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## spotanjo3 (Apr 19, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> That's already somewhat the case. If you fly anywhere, you have to fill out a form with your passport number and identifying info so they can both send lost luggage to you and I assume notify immigration control when a person has landed back in their home country



Nope. I have seen few people I knew came here for the vacation then decided to overstayed and became illegally. They still are here illegally so far. They didnt notify immigration control at all.


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## fatherjack (Apr 19, 2018)

I wish we had Trump in the Uk, it might achieve two good things:

1. A good clear out of all our illegals
2. Stop you US liberals bitching about him so much - most of you did vote him in don't forget


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## Subtle Demise (Apr 19, 2018)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The USA.gov gives the world's most vague qualifications.
> Seriously
> 
> Fucking so clear ;O;
> From the countless immigrants I've met, the process is just a long and needlessly tedious process that is just all over the place with no real logical method.


Weird that the UK's is pretty much the same. 


Lilith Valentine said:


> I've seen the tests they have to take, most basically can be summed up with, "You have the be more American than any American, ever!" It's just shocking how much they have to invest, considering most Americans would fail to be American.


And Canada 
And have fun with Japan's


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## The Catboy (Apr 19, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> Weird that the UK's is pretty much the same.
> 
> And Canada
> And have fun with Japan's


Reading through them, they all do actually share that one vague note, which is dumb. At the same time the rest of the requirements are still a lot clearer than the US. Canada actually seems to put a bit more effort into being a helpful site.


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## x65943 (Apr 19, 2018)

Bottom line. If we don't want to deport illegal immigrants we should change the law.

As the law stands, undocumented immigrants are breaking the law - and we should uphold it.

If we want to change that, we should do it while staying true to the rule of law. Trump hasn't changed anything except asking law enforcement to do their job.

Look, this is a democracy. If it offends people they need to vote in people with whom they share values - who will champion their agenda and effect change they believe in.

Turns out that happened to be Trump - so it seems like Americans want the laws upheld.

If that upsets you - you have a battle to fight. Vote, tell friends and neighbors to vote - make your voice heard.

Edit: Did not vote for Trump and never would. But as far as he upholds the law of the land - you can't blame him for it. Next time the demis are in power let's see them change the system instead of ignoring it. Because ignoring the issue sets the nation up for a situation like it's in right now - where the policies are unclear and people don't know how laws will be followed from one day to the next.


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## Pacheko17 (Apr 19, 2018)

Good! No illegals in there. If I ever go there I want to be safe.


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## x65943 (Apr 19, 2018)

Pacheko17 said:


> Good! No illegals in there. If I ever go there I want to be safe.


The vast majority of our crime is home grown. Some studies have shown mexican illegal immigrants tend to be more law abiding than average. 

http://www.politifact.com/californi...-true-undocumented-immigrants-less-likely-co/

The "mexicans breed crime" talking point isn't accurate.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> And have fun with Japan's


Bad example, Japan has an incredibly xenophobic history when it comes to immigration, or so I've heard


Pacheko17 said:


> Good! No illegals in there. If I ever go there I want to be safe.


See the post below yours; the legal residency status of a person does not correlate to their threat to you any more than any other US resident. In some cases, one might say you'd actually be SAFER around an undocumented immigrant; any crime that lands them in jail, no matter how minor, will see them being deported. If a migrant has been their long enough for you to interact with them, chances are you're gonna be fine


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## Subtle Demise (Apr 20, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Bad example, Japan has an incredibly xenophobic history when it comes to immigration, or so I've hear


I'm just saying the requirements in the USA really aren't that different than other places.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> I'm just saying the requirements in the USA really aren't that different than other places.


We're different from other places that share borders with our neighboring countries


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## ov3rkill (Apr 20, 2018)

How much is the reward though if you're going to snitch on someone?
Because, how else would the government know without someone pointing in the illegal immigrant's direction unless they do random checking on people?
But I don't think they have enough resources for that, hence my bet is on snitching on somebody's ass.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

ov3rkill said:


> How much is the reward though if you're going to snitch on someone?
> Because, how else would the government know without someone pointing in the illegal immigrant's direction unless they do random checking on people?
> But I don't think they have enough resources for that, hence my bet is on snitching on somebody's ass.


Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if, on top of more ICE raids, the heightened statistics were from Trump voters taking it upon themselves to locate "suspicious" individuals and report them to ICE


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## Kigiru (Apr 20, 2018)

If its about illegal immigrants then you all should be glad. This is one of the very few things that Trump is doing right and as legal citizens of US you realy should support it.

Tho on the other hand, building a physical wall is kind of retarded and wasteful.


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## sarkwalvein (Apr 20, 2018)

azoreseuropa said:


> The travel agency should notify that people overstayed anywhere should be arrest.


Travel agency? Do people still even use those?
Last time I used a travel agency was back in 2001.
And I've done plenty travelling since then.


TotalInsanity4 said:


> That's already somewhat the case. If you fly anywhere, you have to fill out a form with your passport number and identifying info so they can both send lost luggage to you and I assume notify immigration control when a person has landed back in their home country


What? Really, I don't remember having filled any form like that in the last times.
Last time I traveled to America, I only had to ask for an ESTA, and that thing just states "you can travel whenever your want for the next 2 years". And for other places I've traveled to, I wasn't even asked to fill anything, I just showed my passport in migrations at the airport, they put a stamp on it, and let's a go!


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## spotanjo3 (Apr 20, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> Travel agency? Do people still even use those?
> Last time I used a travel agency was back in 2001.
> And I've done plenty travelling since then.
> 
> ...



Yes, I always do it online. Some people still used a travel agency as an old fashion. 

Anyway, yes. You are right. Nobody filled any form like that in the last times so the illegal immigration will always come here and in Europe no matter what. Unless they find a way to prevent that like filled any form would be a good idea.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> Travel agency? Do people still even use those?
> Last time I used a travel agency was back in 2001.
> And I've done plenty travelling since then.
> 
> ...


It's on the return flight when you're coming back to your home country. Is that not a thing other countries do?


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## sarkwalvein (Apr 20, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's on the return flight when you're coming back to your home country. Is that not a thing other countries do?


At least not in either of my home countries, Germany and Argentina.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> At least not in either of my home countries, Germany and Argentina.


Interesting


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## Pacheko17 (Apr 20, 2018)

x65943 said:


> The vast majority of our crime is home grown. Some studies have shown mexican illegal immigrants tend to be more law abiding than average.
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/californi...-true-undocumented-immigrants-less-likely-co/
> 
> The "mexicans breed crime" talking point isn't accurate.



Well, I think that's kinda funny. Isn't being an undocumented immigrant a crime?


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## x65943 (Apr 20, 2018)

Pacheko17 said:


> Well, I think that's kinda funny. Isn't being an undocumented immigrant a crime?


It is. However you talked about feeling safe.

You are statistically safer around these so called "criminals"

That's my point. If you want to be pedantic you can.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

Pacheko17 said:


> Well, I think that's kinda funny. Isn't being an undocumented immigrant a crime?


Legally it is, but given that it's one of the most non-violent offenses one could commit, and given that there are still ways of receiving identifying info that can be used to at least track employment (undocumented immigrants can still be issued tax IDs, but can neither pay into or receive social security benefits with it), I'd say that it's the law and system that's unjust, rather than necessarily a problem with the people coming through


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## the_randomizer (Apr 20, 2018)

So if they have a right to be here illegally, by that justification, I have every right to enter Mexico or any other country illegally. I'm not being violent, I'm just breaking the law, right?

And before anyone uses the "we came here illegally in the 17th century", well based off of what? There were no immigration laws to break then.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 20, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> So if they have a right to be here illegally, by that justification, I have every right to enter Mexico or any other country illegally. I'm not being violent, I'm just breaking the law, right?
> 
> And before anyone uses the "we came here illegally in the 17th century", well based off of what? There were no immigration laws to break then.


I mean, not necessarily a RIGHT, but I'd say you'd be more than justified to if you were running away from something, for instance. Unfortunately our current system punishes people for trying to notify the State that they have entered by deportation, rather than adding them to a registry to note that they're here, which seems to be the thing most people are up in arms about in the first place, correct?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 20, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I mean, not necessarily a RIGHT, but I'd say you'd be more than justified to if you were running away from something, for instance. Unfortunately our current system punishes people for trying to notify the State that they have entered by deportation, rather than adding them to a registry to note that they're here, which seems to be the thing most people are up in arms about in the first place, correct?


We need a better immigration policy. Not necessarily a stricter one. Just one that can keep better tabs on who enters. So many illegal criminals getting deported and coming back is an issue. I've got nothing against legitimate, hard working people wanting a "piece of the pie" so to speak.


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## Windaga (Apr 20, 2018)

The worst part about any of this (outside of displaced families) is the sheer vileness and ilk that it draws out of people. You can sit on either side of the debate, give your opinion, and listen to others without devolving into hatred spewing monsters. I get it - you have a strong opinion. But the disgusting vehement blabber that spews out of people's mouths just because they disagree with someone is embarrassing to humans as a species.

Mind you, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I haven't read through this thread, and I'm sure there are some great, insightful comments here. But if I have to hear another parent complain their kid's future is at risk because the wetback menace isn't being stopped fast enough, I might legitimately puke. Likewise, regardless of your beliefs, calling everyone who supports it a MAGA enthusiast is equally as useless. If we could all just drop the sarcasm, the haughty attitudes, and the "I know everything" demeanors and instead work together on a viable, humane solution, we might get something done.


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## the_randomizer (Apr 21, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I mean, not necessarily a RIGHT, but I'd say you'd be more than justified to if you were running away from something, for instance. Unfortunately our current system punishes people for trying to notify the State that they have entered by deportation, rather than adding them to a registry to note that they're here, which seems to be the thing most people are up in arms about in the first place, correct?



I personally don't see either party agreeing to finding a solution that would be conducive to fixing the very broken system. Yes, it should be fixed, badly, but will it?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 21, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> I personally don't see either party agreeing to finding a solution that would be conducive to fixing the very broken system. Yes, it should be fixed, badly, but will it?


I mean. That's really on the politicians who vote in alignment and proclaim that immigrants are stealing "American" jobs and are in some way violent and dangerous to drop the act and stop funneling donor money for two seconds


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## the_randomizer (Apr 21, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I mean. That's really on the politicians who vote in alignment and proclaim that immigrants are stealing "American" jobs and are in some way violent and dangerous to drop the act and stop funneling donor money for two seconds



I'm not worried about whether or not they are violent, I know they're usually not. What pisses me off is that politicians always act as though they have every single rights as legal citizens have, they they have to be in sanctuary cities. Not to mention that the mayors of those cities have to be arrogant douchebags to the point of willingly defy and sue the government, "but muh sanctuary cities", blah blah blah. Just wish they weren't so sanctimonious and act like they're the victims.


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## Lacius (Apr 21, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm not worried about whether or not they are violent, I know they're usually not. What pisses me off is that politicians always act as though they have every single rights as legal citizens have, they they have to be in sanctuary cities. Not to mention that the mayors of those cities have to be arrogant douchebags to the point of willingly defy and sue the government, "but muh sanctuary cities", blah blah blah. Just wish they weren't so sanctimonious and act like they're the victims.


But they should have the same rights as legal citizens.


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## weatMod (Apr 21, 2018)

Memoir said:


> There's nothing to defend. The law applies to everyone.


actually it doesn't i can guarantee you that Trump will do nothing  about the immigration invasion and that this is selective enforcement at best
only certain people are allowed to to exploit  them then they use the government t bust their  competition if they try and to do the same   to unlevel the paying field 
just like  the drug cartels the government busts one to help out the other , same thing with immigration


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 21, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm not worried about whether or not they are violent, I know they're usually not. What pisses me off is that politicians always act as though they have every single rights as legal citizens have, they they have to be in sanctuary cities. Not to mention that the mayors of those cities have to be arrogant douchebags to the point of willingly defy and sue the government, "but muh sanctuary cities", blah blah blah. Just wish they weren't so sanctimonious and act like they're the victims.





Lacius said:


> But they should have the same rights as legal citizens.


Like Lacius said, even if they don't have the same PRIVILEGES as an American citizen (again, virtually NO benefits that come from tax money), the fact that the people who wrote the amendments to the Constitution saw them as either inalienable rights to a human being or reasonable limitations to life in America makes it kind of glaring when people say that that they shouldn't apply to non-US citizens. What's worse is that our Bill of Rights is actually kind of awful when compared to the UNs Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which in theory should apply to every human being on the planet


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## Lacius (Apr 21, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Like Lacius said, even if they don't have the same PRIVILEGES as an American citizen (again, virtually NO benefits that come from tax money), the fact that the people who wrote the amendments to the Constitution saw them as either inalienable rights to a human being or reasonable limitations to life in America makes it kind of glaring when people say that that they shouldn't apply to non-US citizens. What's worse is that our Bill of Rights is actually kind of awful when compared to the UNs Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which in theory should apply to every human being on the planet


I think illegal immigrants should also have the benefits that come from tax money, given that they pay a lot of taxes.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 21, 2018)

Lacius said:


> I think illegal immigrants should also have the benefits that come from tax money, given that they pay a lot of taxes.


I kind of both agree and disagree. Yes, they pay into the pot, but one could also see that as the reasonable cost of living here without legal status. However, again, that "punishment" would be more reasonable if the system for legalizing one's documents was more comprehensive


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## Lacius (Apr 21, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I kind of both agree and disagree. Yes, they pay into the pot, but one could also see that as the reasonable cost of living here without legal status. However, again, that "punishment" would be more reasonable if the system for legalizing one's documents was more comprehensive


Immigrants should have an easy path to legal status and/or citizenship.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Apr 22, 2018)

Lacius said:


> Immigrants should have an easy path to legal status and/or citizenship.


Correct


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