# Windows 10 ARM teased running unofficially on a Nintendo Switch



## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 3, 2019)

While this is cool. Windows ARM is utterly useless...


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## MrBareBones (Mar 3, 2019)

I remember having this thought a few months back about this exact idea, and to see it being worked on is kinda surreal. So I really hope this gets fleshed out a lot more!


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## TR_mahmutpek (Mar 3, 2019)

LMAO, just LMAO


(way to go devs)


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## Rabbid4240 (Mar 3, 2019)

Ok den


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## The Real Jdbye (Mar 3, 2019)

Memoir said:


> While this is cool. Windows ARM is utterly useless...


Well, you can run .NET apps on ARM, so you can actually do quite a lot on Windows ARM, as long as they don't need any native libraries (or said native libraries are open source so you can recompile them)
It's not at all comparable to full blown PC Windows though. And the touchscreen experience on Windows is still not great, you really need a keyboard at minimum if you want to use it seriously. And obviously you can forget about running games, but it may be good for some things, you could probably run full fat Office on it, and use it for web browsing and video watching, but I think almost anything you can do on Windows ARM could be done better on Android which is more tailored to touchscreen devices.


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## ry755 (Mar 3, 2019)

Might not be very useful, but it would still be fun to mess around with!


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## Shrike (Mar 3, 2019)

At least there are browsers with HTML5 and JavaScript support for ARM Windows... So.. yay?


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## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Mar 3, 2019)

Shrike said:


> At least there are browsers with HTML5 and JavaScript support for ARM Windows... So.. yay?


I doubt spyware chrome or firefox would work on win10 arm


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## Deleted-351540 (Mar 3, 2019)

Memoir said:


> While this is cool. Windows ARM is utterly useless...


It's not utterly useless at all. It's way beyond.

I have ran Windows 10 on my Pi 3. It took well over 10 minutes to boot up to the desktop and a full five more minutes to become usable. It took exactly 3 minutes and 47 seconds to open the Edge browser. Yes, I timed it. Typing is a chore because of the lag between button presses and the time it took to display those presses on screen. 

Yes, the Switch is more powerful than a Pi 3. But I don't expect a ton of performance gains from the Switch.

It's cool, yes. But useless doesn't describe how bad it'll run.


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## Shrike (Mar 3, 2019)

Idontknowwhattoputhere said:


> I doubt spyware chrome or firefox would work on win10 arm



https://www.windowscentral.com/mozilla-releases-first-nightly-build-firefox-windows-10-arm


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## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Mar 3, 2019)

Shrike said:


> https://www.windowscentral.com/mozilla-releases-first-nightly-build-firefox-windows-10-arm


Its not for the end user


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## emmanu888 (Mar 3, 2019)

Android would make more sense as an alt OS for the Switch over Windows. 

You know since Android already has support for the X1 SoC


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## Kubas_inko (Mar 3, 2019)

So we have horizon, linux (and laka), android and windows. Cool.


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## Alkéryn (Mar 3, 2019)

Cool yeah maybe
but definitely useless ^


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## Minox (Mar 3, 2019)

Idontknowwhattoputhere said:


> Its not for the end user


I highly doubt this early port of Windows 10 for the Switch is for the end user either.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 3, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Well, you can run .NET apps on ARM, so you can actually do quite a lot on Windows ARM, as long as they don't need any native libraries (or said native libraries are open source so you can recompile them)
> It's not at all comparable to full blown PC Windows though. And the touchscreen experience on Windows is still not great, you really need a keyboard at minimum if you want to use it seriously. And obviously you can forget about running games, but it may be good for some things, you could probably run full fat Office on it, and use it for web browsing and video watching, but I think almost anything you can do on Windows ARM could be done better on Android which is more tailored to touchscreen devices.


Office is the only positive out of this. Most ARM based Windows emulators aren't that great. So I can't see this benefiting anyone that isn't in it to say "cuz I can"

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Idaho said:


> -snip-


If only it were. That'd be great. Give me one objective reason this will prove useful to any end user.

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bobdamnit said:


> It's not utterly useless at all. It's way beyond.
> 
> I have ran Windows 10 on my Pi 3. It took well over 10 minutes to boot up to the desktop and a full five more minutes to become usable. It took exactly 3 minutes and 47 seconds to open the Edge browser. Yes, I timed it. Typing is a chore because of the lag between button presses and the time it took to display those presses on screen.
> 
> ...


I can see that happening. Of course if it becomes a properly optimized project, it would be fun to mess with. I'd rather see the Android project take off.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 3, 2019)

bobdamnit said:


> It's not utterly useless at all. It's way beyond.
> 
> I have ran Windows 10 on my Pi 3. It took well over 10 minutes to boot up to the desktop and a full five more minutes to become usable. It took exactly 3 minutes and 47 seconds to open the Edge browser. Yes, I timed it. Typing is a chore because of the lag between button presses and the time it took to display those presses on screen.
> 
> ...


People are so obsessed with Pi 3, the Atomic Pi is so much better, and would be better if it was more popular. Windows ARM just seems, wrong.


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## BlueFox gui (Mar 3, 2019)

switch is for games son
i already have windows on PC
stop
please


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## Deleted-351540 (Mar 3, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> People are so obsessed with Pi 3, the Atomic Pi is so much better, and would be better if it was more popular. Windows ARM just seems, wrong.


I like the Pi 3 because of the massive amount of support available to it. I also own (and like) a Rock64Pro 4Gb board, but support on that board is only slightly better than nil. Although, I must admit that the Atomic Pi is very appealing in that it runs an Intel Atom at almost 2Ghz. I'd buy one tonight if it had a version that had 4Gb RAM.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 4, 2019)

bobdamnit said:


> I like the Pi 3 because of the massive amount of support available to it. I also own (and like) a Rock64Pro 4Gb board, but support on that board is only slightly better than nil. Although, I must admit that the Atomic Pi is very appealing in that it runs an Intel Atom at almost 2Ghz. I'd buy one tonight if it had a version that had 4Gb RAM.



2 GB is an odd choice for them to put on it.


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## guily6669 (Mar 4, 2019)

Last Person I know that bought a device with this garbage came to me to reinstall OS since he said he couldnt use anything or install anything he wanted in it when I saw it was Windows ARM lool...

Same day he run into the store returned it and bought an actual laptop...


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## lordelan (Mar 4, 2019)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Well, you can run .NET apps on ARM, so you can actually do quite a lot on Windows ARM, as long as they don't need any native libraries (or said native libraries are open source so you can recompile them)


Exactly this.
Still Painless Linux and Android may be the better choices for the Switch but it's awesome how many operating systems are being ported lol.
At some point we might have:

Horizon
Painless Linux (Arch afair)
Ubuntu Linux
fail0verflow's Linux (was Arch as well, wasn't it?)
Lakka (Linux RetroArch distribution)
Android
Windows 10 ARM
That's insane, when you think about it. The Switch is just two years old now and look where we are already.


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## Deleted-351540 (Mar 4, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> 2 GB is an odd choice for them to put on it.


Not really. They wanted to keep it under the $35 price point. I don't see a way of doing that without skimping the RAM. 4Gb probably would have brought the price up to around $60-80.


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## the_randomizer (Mar 4, 2019)

bobdamnit said:


> Not really. They wanted to keep it under the $35 price point. I don't see a way of doing that without skimping the RAM. 4Gb probably would have brought the price up to around $60-80.



Still would be worth the price, oh well.


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## spotanjo3 (Mar 4, 2019)

Cool but useless, really.


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## Deleted-351540 (Mar 4, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Still would be worth the price, oh well.


I agree. I'd be willing to pay more for more RAM. Wish they'd done two boards. An Atomic Pi, and an Atomic Pi Pro with 4Gb. I'd have bought it.


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## MiiJack (Mar 4, 2019)

Is this the first console to run Windows unofficially?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 4, 2019)

MiiJack said:


> Is this the first console to run Windows unofficially?


Nintendo 3DS could run older Windows iirc


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## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 4, 2019)

Memoir said:


> Nintendo 3DS could run older Windows iirc


Using emulators, sure, but none I'm aware of run directly on console hardware, this would be a possible first.

Regarding the news though, first comment hit it perfectly; neat and all, but Windows on ARM is all but useless currently.


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## franciscomaianunes (Mar 4, 2019)

can't wait to play gta 5 on my switch


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 4, 2019)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Using emulators, sure, but none I'm aware of run directly on console hardware, this would be a possible first.
> 
> Regarding the news though, first comment hit it perfectly; neat and all, but Windows on ARM is all but useless currently.


Oh, right. Native vs emulation. Oops


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## Foxi4 (Mar 4, 2019)

I don't understand why the community expects every single release to be useful to broad swathes of users, or to be useful at all. People forget that amateur developers release this kind of stuff for fun. They're, by and large, not getting paid for any of this. Speaking from my own experience, sometimes you code something just because "you can", there's no long-term goal at all, the project is the challenge in and out of itself. Let's not forget that Doom got ported to Honeywell thermostats. Are you going to play Doom on your thermostat? No. Is this application useful at all and is anyone ever going to use it in earnest? No. Is it cool? Hell yeah it's cool. As for the release above, just the bootloader alone can help developers in the future and guide them in the right direction when booting other OS'es besides Android, the code has inherent value, and even if it didn't, it's still impressive and noteworthy that this was achieved at all.


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## sblast3 (Mar 4, 2019)

Cool, can't wait to play ARMS on my Nintendo Switch.


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## RandomNameAndNumber (Mar 4, 2019)

Foxi4 said:


> Are you going to play Doom on your thermostat?


I probably would....not to be contrary, but that is cool as hell.  Or is it the new hotness?


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## Deleted User (Mar 4, 2019)

This is starting to become like the HTC HD2, not like that's a bad thing.


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## InsaneNutter (Mar 4, 2019)

Jack54782 said:


> This is starting to become like the HTC HD2, not like that's a bad thing.



What a device, anyone who purchased the HD2 certainly got their moneys worth.


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## Condemned87 (Mar 4, 2019)

Wow, Windows on Switch would be nice!


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## iyenal (Mar 4, 2019)

Near future: Office suite on Nintendo Switch


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## Bedel (Mar 4, 2019)

Idk if there is a Visual Studio version for ARM W10 (there sould be one), or at least a jdk and a jre. Would be fun to do some shit with the switch if we can connect a keyboard with the usb port.


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## DSpider (Mar 4, 2019)

x86 programs - which is 99.99% of Windows programs (and games) do not run on ARM. If you were hoping for a browser on Windows 10 ARM, just go with Linux. The Switch is closer to an Nvidia Shield and at least you'll get more driver support that way.


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## NoNAND (Mar 4, 2019)

Finally something that isn't Linux!
looking forward to this one.


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## Idaho (Mar 4, 2019)

Memoir said:


> If only it were. That'd be great. Give me one objective reason this will prove useful to any end user.



It has the same potential of being useful as Android or Linux, it just needs proper driver support and for now, none of these ports do, it's a shame, especially for Linux as it'd be my OS of choice if it were usable without hassles (lack of many drivers including audio make it unattractive to me and a lot of other people). Linux is still probably the most advanced but I have more faith in the Android switch port as there is more popular demand on this one than on all the others...


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## DaveLister (Mar 4, 2019)

Would be nice to see one switch on Kali one on win 10 . Script wars, watch as one switch slays the other .


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 4, 2019)

great now you'll be able to get windows malware installed on your switch. better come up with an adblockplus for switch boyz


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## Minox (Mar 4, 2019)

DSpider said:


> x86 programs - which is 99.99% of Windows programs (and games) do not run on ARM. If you were hoping for a browser on Windows 10 ARM, just go with Linux. The Switch is closer to an Nvidia Shield and at least you'll get more driver support that way.


I think you're missing something about Windows 10 on ARM. It's specifically built to be native Windows running on an ARM architecture *with* an x86 emulator layer allowing for normal Windows applications to run as well. Since it's emulation it's not going to be fast, but they do run.


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## Seriel (Mar 4, 2019)

DSpider said:


> x86 programs - which is 99.99% of Windows programs (and games) do not run on ARM. If you were hoping for a browser on Windows 10 ARM, just go with Linux. The Switch is closer to an Nvidia Shield and at least you'll get more driver support that way.


But they do? x86 applications (NOT x86_64 ones) run on Windows 10 ARM with moderate degrees of success. Anything graphically intensive probably won't work so don't expect Steam or Firefox/Chrome, but anything else should work without too many problems. Also Windows 10 ARM is pretty new at the moment, given time I'm sure most of these issues will be resolved (Probably when ARM Windows laptops hit mainstream more than they already have and third-parties start supporting them with ARM builds. As an example, Chrome on Windows ARM is already under development.)
Also, Microsoft Edge is a browser. Which supports ARM. So there is a browser, just maybe not one you agree with (But still a browser!).

None of this justifies any reasonable use for a functioning Windows on ARM, but why should that matter in the first place. Most of these ports are just developers having fun, leave them to it and use whatever results of that which you want to use.


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## Tomobobo (Mar 4, 2019)

People confuse Windows 10 ARM with Windows Mobile and get all snarky.


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## DinohScene (Mar 4, 2019)

Oh, this might be an excuse for me to take me switch out of its plastic wrapper!


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## Brayton (Mar 4, 2019)

Can I run microsoft bob on arm? hahaha


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## Idaho (Mar 4, 2019)

Brayton said:


> Can I run microsoft bob on arm? hahaha



Afaik Microsoft BOB works on Windows 95 and you can easily create a VM to run it from Linux, so you can theorically have it on your Switch, it should run properly


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## Brayton (Mar 4, 2019)

Idaho said:


> Afaik Microsoft BOB works on Windows 95 and you can easily create a VM to run it from Linux, so you can theorically have it on your Switch, it should run properly


Eh, too much work.


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## huntertron1 (Mar 4, 2019)

interesting...


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## gamesquest1 (Mar 4, 2019)

what, windows running on something that isn't windows 95 running on dosbox on a gba emulator running on a psp emulator, running on an android emulator at 1 frame per hour


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## Silent_Gunner (Mar 4, 2019)

emmanu888 said:


> Android would make more sense as an alt OS for the Switch over Windows.
> 
> You know since Android already has support for the X1 SoC



At this point, I have more hope for Android getting stable support for emulation and staying in homebrew with as few headaches as possible, so I hope that Android Q port gets to where we can download Retroarch and Reicast from the Play Store and skip all of the hassle and headache of waiting for ports developed for Horizon and jumping through its hoops to get the best performance out of homebrew when Android has more apps made for it than a proprietary OS.


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## Forgotten_Email (Mar 4, 2019)

Cool for a proof-of-concept thing but you'll get more use out of linux as linux devs tend to include ARM versions of their software. I'll pass on this but still impressive though

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BlueFox gui said:


> switch is for games son
> i already have windows on PC
> stop
> please


no one's gonna use this, it's more for seeing what random crap we can shove on the thing

If anyone uses this beyond seeing how good it is or messing around, you're pretty dumb just use the linux port dammit


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## moonblood666 (Mar 4, 2019)

How big is the impact on the performance due to emulating x86? I wonder if much less hardware consuming games like visual novels would run. I have a fairly weak and cheap Win 10 tablet, bought 3 1/2 years ago for 50€ and can run basically every VN I throw at it. But it would be nice if the Switch could do it as well.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 4, 2019)

moonblood666 said:


> How big is the impact on the performance due to emulating x86? I wonder if much less hardware consuming games like visual novels would run. I have a fairly weak and cheap Win 10 tablet, bought 3 1/2 years ago for 50€ and can run basically every VN I throw at it. But it would be nice if the Switch could do it as well.


It's not great, CPU-based tasks are incredibly slow on a Snapdragon 835 which is basically the Qualcomm equivalent of a Tegra X1 (CPU wise anyways). You'll still need native GPU drivers, too, to take advantage of the X1's GPU, which probably won't happen all too soon.


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## Deleted User (Mar 4, 2019)

Now we have Windows 10 on ARM on the Nintendo Switch (yay i guess).
It may be not usefull because Windows and ARM are not really going together. But it is impressive that the switch can run so many Operating Systems already! The switch seems to be the best homebrew system ever in exsistence!


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## CaptainHIT (Mar 5, 2019)

I'd like to try that!


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## EmBlaze (Mar 5, 2019)

Something a lot of people don't know: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/porting/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation

But personally, I'd be a bit more excited for Chrome OS (Project Croissant). And for the many that don't know, Android and Linux programs are officially supported.


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## Deleted User (Mar 5, 2019)

EmBlaze said:


> Something a lot of people don't know: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/porting/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation
> 
> But personally, I'd be a bit more excited for Chrome OS (Project Croissant). And for the many that don't know, Android and Linux programs are officially supported.



Well, if it is so then a part of the OS would be usefull for not demanding apps (no games or emulators). Now i can use Microsoft Office 365 on the go on the nintendo switch. But hornestly, Windows is not really neccessary for the switch. But anyways it is cool that the switch can run soo many Operating Systems (like mentoried in my shitpost ehh i mean... my post earlier). Chrome OS with Android and Linux compatibility? Well, Chrome OS was for me always an useless system (because the apps were all in HTML5 and you would need a constant internet connection). Maybe i could try it out (on the switch maybe? Forgot to mention this in my shitpost).


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## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Mar 6, 2019)

Minox said:


> I highly doubt this early port of Windows 10 for the Switch is for the end user either.


Nor is the port of android


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## orangpelupa (Mar 9, 2019)

isnt that no longer correct? nowadays Chrome OS can run apps offline right?


saltyCake said:


> Well, Chrome OS was for me always an useless system (because the apps were all in HTML5 and you would need a constant internet connection).



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

anyway, Windows on ARM would be pretty neat on switch due to its included dock.

no longer i would need to bring my windows tablet to work. i can simply bring my switch and left the dock at workplace. Both to have fun, and do some lighter work.


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## RattletraPM (Mar 9, 2019)

*UPDATE:* The Switch is now reportedly able to boot Windows 10 (with limited device support). Bingxing Wang has uploaded a video of the console getting to the installation dialog:

​

(The OP has also been updated with the new info)


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## Convey12 (Oct 19, 2019)

I'm interesting to see where this ends up


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## Smashkid15 (Nov 18, 2019)

My Body Is Ready!


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## Imancol (Dec 31, 2019)

Memoir said:


> While this is cool. Windows ARM is utterly useless...





The Real Jdbye said:


> Well, you can run .NET apps on ARM, so you can actually do quite a lot on Windows ARM, as long as they don't need any native libraries (or said native libraries are open source so you can recompile them)
> It's not at all comparable to full blown PC Windows though. And the touchscreen experience on Windows is still not great, you really need a keyboard at minimum if you want to use it seriously. And obviously you can forget about running games, but it may be good for some things, you could probably run full fat Office on it, and use it for web browsing and video watching, but I think almost anything you can do on Windows ARM could be done better on Android which is more tailored to touchscreen devices.


Android is almost perfect ... only if I could fix the problem of the touch screen with the ghost touches, and some games have a poor performance despite its power, of course not done for that hehe ...

Windows 10 ARM on Nintendo Switch could be much more profitable than Android, because although the architecture is different and does not support most applications / games x86, it would work very well for a type of Pocket Windows where you can use native office applications, or even Edition or architecture, since it has .Net support as you mention, although it would be great to adapt the screen as if it were a Digital Tablet. The switch panel itself is designed to be blindly sensitive, perfect for design.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 31, 2019)

Ghost92 said:


> Windows 10 ARM on Nintendo Switch could be much more profitable than Android, because although the architecture is different and does not support most applications / games x86, it would work very well for a type of Pocket Windows where you can use native office applications, or even Edition or architecture, since it has .Net support as you mention, although it would be great to adapt the screen as if it were a Digital Tablet. The switch panel itself is designed to be blindly sensitive, perfect for design.


Except that's not what this is, Windows 10 ARM _does_ support x86 applications, via emulation. This is NOT Windows RT, which was the stripped down, ARM only version of Windows with virtually 0 support. 

The problem here is that the ARM->x86 emulation is _awful _on Windows 10 ARM. A relatively high end Snapdragon 835 (which is like the Snapdragon equivalent of the Tegra X1's CPU cores) was benchmarked to be _weaker_ than an entry level mobile Celeron when emulating any x86 application, which makes it effectively worthless as a Windows tablet for everyday use. The native ARM programs that are also available on Windows 10 ARM are also very few and far between, and in most cases aren't powerful enough to be useful as even an "occasional device" for drawing or web browsing and such. 

This is especially true when you also have to keep in mind that you'd still need native GPU drivers for the Maxwell based GPU, which don't exist for Windows 10 ARM.


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## DinohScene (Dec 31, 2019)

Heh.

Thought I'd never see that happen.


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## Imancol (Dec 31, 2019)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> Except that's not what this is, Windows 10 ARM _does_ support x86 applications, via emulation. This is NOT Windows RT, which was the stripped down, ARM only version of Windows with virtually 0 support.
> 
> The problem here is that the ARM->x86 emulation is _awful _on Windows 10 ARM. A relatively high end Snapdragon 835 (which is like the Snapdragon equivalent of the Tegra X1's CPU cores) was benchmarked to be _weaker_ than an entry level mobile Celeron when emulating any x86 application, which makes it effectively worthless as a Windows tablet for everyday use. The native ARM programs that are also available on Windows 10 ARM are also very few and far between, and in most cases aren't powerful enough to be useful as even an "occasional device" for drawing or web browsing and such.
> 
> This is especially true when you also have to keep in mind that you'd still need native GPU drivers for the Maxwell based GPU, which don't exist for Windows 10 ARM.


What about the UWP applications?

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Kubas_inko said:


> So we have horizon, linux (and laka), android and windows. Cool.


Only Hackintosh would be missing


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## Tom Bombadildo (Dec 31, 2019)

Ghost92 said:


> What about the UWP applications?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


So long as the UWP was built for ARM, it'll work, but again those are few and far between and the performance still isn't great. 

This is more a proof of concept type thing, not an actual, usable OS like Android or Linux.


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## Imancol (Dec 31, 2019)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> So long as the UWP was built for ARM, it'll work, but again those are few and far between and the performance still isn't great.
> 
> This is more a proof of concept type thing, not an actual, usable OS like Android or Linux.


Believe me there are ... being a Universal or Multiplatform compilation such as HTML5. In fact, I wonder how WebGL games will run.

When there is, if I did, a stable version of this, I will try to compile my games in that version.


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## wiewiec (Jan 1, 2020)

As M$ try use Arm Soc on their Surface line I think it could be great for future low power Windows products, but only after market fill with proper apps for this technology. Good that they try to make it to use Arm - little late, but still great.


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## Imancol (Aug 26, 2020)

For those who said that Windows 10 ARM does not run perfect for games. You can see this demo of a device with the same performance as Nintendo Switch.



https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/19/...dows-10-on-arm-apps-games-limitations-support

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## Kordru (Feb 18, 2021)

BlueFox gui said:


> switch is for games son
> i already have windows on PC
> stop
> please


they're breaking reality itself, they really need to stop


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