# Did Nintendo just strengthen anti-piracy checks on their latest games? Discuss



## NeoSlyde (Aug 8, 2015)

Noooooooooo!!


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## Xenon Hacks (Aug 8, 2015)

Animal Crossing does not run because the source made a bad dump once someone gets there hands on the cart it will run just fine, also the CIA version works well on Gateway with a 9.5 Emunand if you have a console that matches the region of the ROM/CIA.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 8, 2015)

Not that the 3ds game library interests me but I wonder if we will see cheap sky3ds carts like the times that DVD flashed 360s were banned.

Anyway hope the sky3ds folks can get behind a custom firmware or something launched from a working game.


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## Costello (Aug 8, 2015)

Xenon Hacks said:


> Animal Crossing does not run because the source made a bad dump once someone gets there hands on the cart it will run just fine, also the CIA version works well on Gateway with a 9.5 Emunand.


noted, thanks


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## Xenon Hacks (Aug 8, 2015)

@WulfyStylez Can elaborate more on why the dump is bad and as to why it does not run.


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## WulfyStylez (Aug 8, 2015)

Xenon Hacks said:


> Animal Crossing does not run because the source made a bad dump once someone gets there hands on the cart it will run just fine, also the CIA version works well on Gateway with a 9.5 Emunand.


This is incorrect. The dump is broken because two bits are unset to disable antipiracy for Gateway users. Set 0x1FE to 0x03 to fix the dump, that's it (you can even RSA-verify the NCSD and all other headers fine afterward.) This game will never work with Sky3DS carts due to new hardware AP, as mentioned before.

Animal Crossing also won't run if you're out-of-region. Same situation here as with Majora's Mask and a few other Japanese versions of international titles. If CFW ever becomes region-free (not just removing icon flag checks for piracy), this will automatically fix itself in the future.


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## sweis12 (Aug 8, 2015)

Sky3DS purple button coming soon! NEW AP BYPASS!

Also, animal crossing was released years ago......


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## licalica13 (Aug 8, 2015)

sweis12 said:


> Sky3DS purple button coming soon! NEW AP BYPASS!
> 
> Also, animal crossing was released years ago......



Isn't the admin talking about Fire Emblem If and Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer??


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## duwen (Aug 8, 2015)

Yes - this is how to intelligently discuss this issue: Thread title poses a discussion, first post states known facts.
Can that inflamatory "PSA: Nintendo blocked the Sky3ds..." thread be moved/closed/killed with fire please?


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## Costello (Aug 8, 2015)

duwen said:


> Yes - this is how to intelligently discuss this issue: Thread title poses a discussion, first post states known facts.
> Can that inflamatory "PSA: Nintendo blocked the Sky3ds..." thread be moved/closed/killed with fire please?


thanks, that's exactly what I tried to do.  
reading up those huge threads took a while and I don't know if I missed something... it's a mess


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## xBleedingSoulx (Aug 8, 2015)

So, I'm assuming Gateway is unaffected? I've not heard anyone mention otherwise.


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## guitarheroknight (Aug 8, 2015)

The previous thread and this one will come to the same conclusion. The only difference is that this one is more organized.


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## sj33 (Aug 8, 2015)

xBleedingSoulx said:


> So, I'm assuming Gateway is unaffected? I've not heard anyone mention otherwise.


My understanding is that the games still won't work straight away, but will work fine if patched as long as you are using a minimum of 9.5 EmuNAND.

The problem with Sky3DS is that it cannot run modified roms - only unmodified roms, so the patched roms won't work.


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## Phil5004 (Aug 8, 2015)

Will be possible to install a CIA of a own dumped ROM to install on a 3ds (And will it be possible to install it on 9.9.0?)


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## Xenon Hacks (Aug 8, 2015)

Phil5004 said:


> Will be possible to install a CIA of a own dumped ROM to install on a 3ds (And will it be possible to install it on 9.9.0?)


No


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 8, 2015)

This makes me think perhaps Sky3DS can't be blocked via software. I mean else why would they put the AP checks in ROMs instead of the actual system itself? Or maybe it will be included in a future system update?


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## Xenon Hacks (Aug 8, 2015)

WiiUBricker said:


> This makes me think perhaps Sky3DS can't be blocked via software. I mean else why would they put the AP checks in ROMs instead of the actual system itself? Or maybe it will be included in a future system update?


The card can be blocked completely this was a jab at both cards but it failed to work on gateway (for the most part).


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## WiiCube_2013 (Aug 8, 2015)

In a year or two everyone will be able to play whatever 3DS game they want but also because by then they've perfected it and Nintendo moved to their next underpowered handheld. 

Anyway, just give the hackers sometime to crack it.


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## funnystory (Aug 8, 2015)

I dont own a sky3ds but they should really compensate their customers over this, I would feel scammed If my card couldn't load the games.Specially since the sky3ds sells for more than a used 2Ds.


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## ceelo (Aug 8, 2015)

Okay let's damage control this. I have both gateway and sky. Fire emblem just needed to be crytofixed, and I don't play AC but I'm sure just needs the same fix. Fe works fine and even has a translation patch out for it from fans. New games have new encryption, sure, but there's always a fix. If not right away, the usually very soon. FE been fixed since it's release.


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 8, 2015)

funnystory said:


> I dont own a sky3ds but they should really compensate their customers over this, I would feel scammed If my card couldn't load the games.Specially since the sky3ds sells for more than a used 2Ds.


They never guaranteed 100% compatibility for future games. Also Sky3DS is a shady business. Shady businesses don't do customer compensation!


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## sj33 (Aug 8, 2015)

funnystory said:


> I dont own a sky3ds but they should really compensate their customers over this, I would feel scammed If my card couldn't load the games.Specially since the sky3ds sells for more than a used 2Ds.


In that case, every flash card maker ever should compensate. It has always been well known that the Sky3DS could not run modified roms and the cart itself was not updatable. Even the Gateway requires the roms to be patched at the moment.


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## funnystory (Aug 8, 2015)

WiiUBricker said:


> They never guaranteed 100% compatibility for future games. Also Sky3DS is a shady business. Shady businesses don't do customer compensation!



I mean on my dslite I have a firecard(clone card) that works fine,not that Ive played it in 6 years. But point being here, sky3ds is shady. Gateway bricked consoles out of nerd rage which was completely unprofessional, I don't care if people bought cloned flashcarts. That is ridiculous that they would brick a 3DS that somebody worked hard to buy. I never bought either card, I just patiently waited for CFW and I couldn't be happier. I can't say I can complain about CFW since it is completely free so even if I could only play 50% of games I couldn't complain. However, sky3ds charges people for a sub-par product that at first could only load 10 games permanently. How can sky3ds justify their 90$ price tag if it isn't flawless and has more limitations than CFW?


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 8, 2015)

funnystory said:


> However, sky3ds charges people for a sub-par product that at first could only load 10 games permanently. How can sky3ds justify their 90$ price tag if it isn't flawless and has more limitations than CFW?


Well, you do that if you are a shady business!


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## Ashtonx (Aug 8, 2015)

This is one of those moments right. One of those where you're happy you bought gateway 3ds.


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## olshrimpeyes (Aug 8, 2015)

sweis12 said:


> Sky3DS purple button coming soon! NEW AP BYPASS!
> 
> Also, animal crossing was released years ago......


Why say something like that? Do you have anything substantiate that? Or are you just spreading speculation as fact?

Also Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer was released in Japan last month.


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## dfsa3fdvc1 (Aug 8, 2015)

olshrimpeyes said:


> Why say something like that? Do you have anything substantiate that? Or are you just spreading speculation as fact?



Joke
-----------
your head


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## olshrimpeyes (Aug 8, 2015)

dfsa3fdvc1 said:


> Joke
> -----------
> your head


I mean I figured it could of been a joke. It's just a really shitty way to make a joke, that's dumb rumors get started... I took the possibility that he already heard some rumor and was spreading it


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 8, 2015)

sj33 said:


> My understanding is that the games still won't work straight away, but will work fine if patched as long as you are using a minimum of 9.5 EmuNAND.
> 
> The problem with Sky3DS is that it cannot run modified roms - only unmodified roms, so the patched roms won't work.


So is there a way that new cards could be made to be able to run modified and unmodified roms? Or is that impossible?


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## funnystory (Aug 8, 2015)

Ashtonx said:


> This is one of those moments right. One of those where you're happy you bought gateway 3ds.



Why would anyone be happy to buy a card that bricked peoples 3DS. Gateway is a waste of money.


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## Ashtonx (Aug 8, 2015)

I think what broke the 3ds was cheap people and their stupidity. But hey, blame it on gateway


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## the_randomizer (Aug 8, 2015)

But, but, muh games that I didn't pay for to run on GW flashcard ;O; 

One of these days, ROMs will be able to be run without flashcards and will circumvent most, if not all AR protection.



Ashtonx said:


> I think what broke the 3ds was cheap people and their stupidity. But hey, blame it on gateway



That's a myth, piracy users are only a very very small % and negligible when it comes to affecting sales, in fact, there impact is almost nonexistent, I wish people stopped believing that piracy kills consoles or sales in the long run. They don't.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 8, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> But, but, muh games that I didn't pay for to run on GW flashcard ;O;
> 
> One of these days, ROMs will be able to be run without flashcards and will circumvent most, if not all AR protection.
> 
> ...


 He wasn't talking about sales but people bricking their consoles... Lol


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## the_randomizer (Aug 8, 2015)

RichHomieSupreme said:


> He wasn't talking about sales but people bricking their consoles... Lol



Oh...well, just woke up so my brain...yeah....my bad,


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## Bimmel (Aug 8, 2015)

funnystory said:


> Why would anyone be happy to buy a card that bricked peoples 3DS. Gateway is a waste of money.


I'm very happy and never had any problems with Gateway. They just delivered every time. Maybe not that fast, but they did.

And so should Sky3DS. If they don't, you still have a choice of buying another flashcart.


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## sj33 (Aug 8, 2015)

RichHomieSupreme said:


> So is there a way that new cards could be made to be able to run modified and unmodified roms? Or is that impossible?


Sky3DS by design will never run modified roms. It doesn't actually utilise any exploits at all, it just clones a retail cartridge. Not using an exploit means that the cartridge itself has no access to the hardware. It's impossible.

It might be possible that a fix is released for Gateway and CFW since they both have kernel-level access to the hardware, though they can also both use modified roms/


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## the_randomizer (Aug 8, 2015)

My only beef is that Gateway has a monopoly over the flashcard market, sure there are others, but they don't seem to be as good.


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## Phil5004 (Aug 8, 2015)

A New Japanse Game is released and the Sky3ds is Supported ( FW: 9.5+ ) ...
So.. Is Fire Emblem IF like Animal Crossing un-play-able for the Sky3ds?
(Link https://sky3dslatestupdates.wordpress.com/ )


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## thorasgar (Aug 8, 2015)

olshrimpeyes said:


> I mean I figured it could of been a joke. It's just a really shitty way to make a joke, that's dumb rumors get started... I took the possibility that he already heard some rumor and was spreading it


Calm down.   It was a good joke (albeit an old one that has been used many times) that anyone who has been in this scene for more than a few months fully gets.  (If you don't get it I or someone else will be glad to explain it to you.). As a new member I fully understand how a comment like that would be distressing for you but if you stick around you will start to understand our sense of humor around here.


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## loco365 (Aug 8, 2015)

I'm almost glad that I went with a gateway because I can update the card in the event that any new AP methods are formulated. However, something is telling me that it too will eventually meet an untimely end.


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## olshrimpeyes (Aug 8, 2015)

thorasgar said:


> Calm down.   It was a good joke (albeit an old one that has been used many times) that anyone who has been in this scene for more than a few months fully gets.  (If you don't get it I or someone else will be glad to explain it to you.). As a new member I fully understand how a comment like that would be distressing for you but if you stick around you will start to understand our sense of humor around here.


I'm completely calm. I understand the joke. I'm not really all that new I've been lurking for a while. It still feels misleading to people who are new, but I'm obviously the minority here so no point in discussing further.


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## guitarheroknight (Aug 8, 2015)

RichHomieSupreme said:


> So is there a way that new cards could be made to be able to run modified and unmodified roms? Or is that impossible?


You won't see a purple/red/green card which bypasses the new AP in a very very long time mainly due to the need of another kernel exploit or something like that. Sincerely, you have a greater chance seeing GW bypassing the 9.6 crypto than Sky bypassing the new AP.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 8, 2015)

sj33 said:


> Sky3DS by design will never run modified roms. It doesn't actually utilise any exploits at all, it just clones a retail cartridge. Not using an exploit means that the cartridge itself has no access to the hardware. It's impossible.
> 
> It might be possible that a fix is released for Gateway and CFW since they both have kernel-level access to the hardware, though they can also both use modified roms/


Thanks for the reply, I'm not too knowledgeable about these things.


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## duwen (Aug 8, 2015)

For some reason, while reading the posts in the two threads about Sky3ds' days being numbered, I keep thinking of the story of Chicken Licken...

*"Gracious goodness me!" said Chicken-licken, "the sky must have fallen; I must go
and tell the King."*

...it's like the prophecies of Nostradamus!

http://fairytales4u.com/story/chicken.htm


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## Reecey (Aug 8, 2015)

I'm sorry but all I can say on this subject is, why buy a Sky3ds card in the first place???, that runs of the systemnand itself and not an emunand based card and if you weren't dumb enough to think this was not coming one day then you were obviously dumb enough to buy the card in the first place so need I say more! Anyone with any brains upstairs would not of purchased one in the first instance!!!


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## Father Crilly (Aug 8, 2015)

Reecey said:


> I'm sorry but all I can say on this subject is, why buy a Sky3ds card in the first place???, that runs of the systemnand itself and not an emunand based card and if you weren't dumb enough to think this was not coming one day then you were obviously dumb enough to buy the card in the first place so need I say more! Anyone with any brains upstairs would not of purchased one in the first instance!!!



Maybe because not everyone has a 3DS with FW 4.0-4.5?


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## thorasgar (Aug 8, 2015)

Reecey said:


> I'm sorry but all I can say on this subject is, why buy a Sky3ds card in the first place???, that runs of the systemnand itself and not an emunand based card and if you weren't dumb enough to think this was not coming one day then you were obviously dumb enough to buy the card in the first place so need I say more! Anyone with any brains upstairs would not of purchased one in the first instance!!!



There are lots of reasons for having a sky. Btw I have 2 gateways, 1 sky, 3 N3DS and 1 O3DS.

Exploits.  Albeit I have not been keeping up the past couple of months it is more economical and convenient to use a sky than several copies of CN to run the various exploits that need different saves.

Friends.  Have a friend that doesn't have a particular game you want to play with him.  Hand him your sky and you are good to go.  

FW.  For whatever reason some do not have exploitable FW.

Been busy with moving the past few months so I haven't had a chance to set up my sky but I have one and once the weather turns crappy will get up and running.


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## duwen (Aug 8, 2015)

Reecey said:


> I'm sorry but all I can say on this subject is, why buy a Sky3ds card in the first place???, that runs of the systemnand itself and not an emunand based card and if you weren't dumb enough to think this was not coming one day then you were obviously dumb enough to buy the card in the first place so need I say more! Anyone with any brains upstairs would not of purchased one in the first instance!!!





Father Crilly said:


> Maybe because not everyone has a 3DS with FW 4.0-4.5?



Exactly! Afterall, it would be really sensible for anyone on firmware +9.2 to buy a Gateway, right?


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## FAST6191 (Aug 8, 2015)

thorasgar said:


> Calm down.   It was a good joke (albeit an old one that has been used many times) that anyone who has been in this scene for more than a few months fully gets.  (If you don't get it I or someone else will be glad to explain it to you.). As a new member I fully understand how a comment like that would be distressing for you but if you stick around you will start to understand our sense of humor around here.



You mean I will never get my R4 dual core hyper speed breadmaker gold deluxe pro ninja SDXC?

Edit. On an unrelated note. I am finding this if not lack of love then barely concealed dislike of the sky3ds to be odd.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 8, 2015)

Question: do you think it's still worth it to buy a sky3ds with this news?


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## Vengenceonu (Aug 8, 2015)

I can't believe I was right on the money. I can't find where but I'm definitely on the record saying "sky3ds will survive every 9.x update but Nintendo will put an end to them  pirating newer games before 10.0".

On another note: anyone hear from super card?


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## thorasgar (Aug 8, 2015)

FAST6191 said:


> You mean I will never get my R4 dual core hyper speed breadmaker gold deluxe pro ninja SDXC?
> 
> Edit. On an unrelated note. I am finding this if not lack of love then barely concealed dislike of the sky3ds to be odd.


I think it is understandable given the initial 10 game limit assuming it was a design feature and not a limitation of the tech they used.  I am also not surprised by sense of entitlement some express.  


the_randomizer said:


> My only beef is that Gateway has a monopoly over the flashcard market, sure there are others, but they don't seem to be as good.



Who is your beef with?  The only reason they have a monopoly is no one else with the skills has gone and developed their own card.



RichHomieSupreme said:


> Question: do you think it's still worth it to buy a sky3ds with this news?



Is having nearly the entire back catalog of 3DS games worth it to you?  



Vengenceonu said:


> I can't believe I was right on the money. I can't find where but I'm definitely on the record saying "sky3ds will survive every 9.x update but Nintendo will put an end to them  pirating newer games before 10.0".
> 
> On another note: anyone hear from super card?



You mean the Super Unicorn?


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## MidLevelCrisis (Aug 8, 2015)

I own a Sky3DS, and I was wondering when this would finally happen, but tbh, As long as all the games up until now keep working without having to modify my 3Ds software I'm fine with this.

I don't get people discussing the prices of these cards, Besides, the card cost me the same as 2 new 3ds games, and for that price I can try out any game, the good ones I actually buy.
For me the fact that it reads roms like an unmodified game cartridge is worth something most people don't seem to appreciate, I can understand their arguments, but still. I'm keeping mine, untill the point a card arrives that does the exact same (emulate a real cartridge) and more.

A lot is still to vague for me really, and hasn't any animal crossing game always been a problem because of the way they handle their save files storage?

I still have a second Untouched MM limited edition New 3DS XL with an exploitable Firmware version.. Depending on how this situation develops I might start using it, i'll be holding on to it a bit longer I guess.


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## LinkmstrYT (Aug 9, 2015)

sweis12 said:


> Sky3DS purple button coming soon! NEW AP BYPASS!
> 
> Also, animal crossing was released years ago......


Don't you mean, green button?


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## Father Crilly (Aug 9, 2015)

If the anti-piracy check is scanning the ROM then surely there must be a way around it without developing a new purple (or green, for that matter) card.

I'm thinking that it would have to do with "DiskWriter" but I'm probably wrong, I'm not familiar with that program's capabilities.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Time will tell what work-around will become more popular. As it stands today, the Sky3DS can work hand-in-hand with CFW just as easily as GW does - you can already launch Fire Emblem If on a Sky3DS via Pasta CFW. What's needed is another nice kernel exploit on post-9.2 firmwares, once that's out, the flood gates will open once more. We'll see if this new method will be widespread - so far it's only two games.


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## Deleted User (Aug 9, 2015)

You don't really need sky3ds for Pasta CFW, and the strength of sky3ds is that it works >9.2, but now that may become: sky3ds only works with games that use fw 9.9 or below.

EDIT: And it looks like Gateway just released an update that completely bypasses this new antipiracy check. They say it was very easy to fix. Will it be the same for Sky3ds or will they require a new cart?


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## Metoroid0 (Aug 9, 2015)

gateway rulez


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> That's a myth, piracy users are only a very very small % and negligible when it comes to affecting sales, in fact, there impact is almost nonexistent, I wish people stopped believing that piracy kills consoles or sales in the long run. They don't.


Golden Sun Dark Dawn (a random example, mind you) sold less than 800k copies worldwide (500k in Japan alone), yet it's the most downloaded non-pokémon game for the Nintendo DS (check your warez sites). It's very easy to kill a franchise.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35078/golden-sun-dark-dawn/


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## guitarheroknight (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> Time will tell what work-around will become more popular. As it stands today, the Sky3DS can work hand-in-hand with CFW just as easily as GW does - you can already launch Fire Emblem If on a Sky3DS via Pasta CFW. What's needed is another nice kernel exploit on post-9.2 firmwares, once that's out, the flood gates will open once more. We'll see if this new method will be widespread - so far it's only two games.



Actually its 9.6 or above  Sky on 9.2 really doesnt make sense. Those who are on 9.2 either use GW or a CFW.


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## duwen (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Golden Sun Dark Dawn (a random example, mind you) sold less than 800k copies worldwide (500k in Japan alone), yet it's the most downloaded non-pokémon game for the Nintendo DS (check your warez sites). It's very easy to kill a franchise.
> 
> http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35078/golden-sun-dark-dawn/



The Fact that Golden Sun released right at the end of the DS's life probably had as much to do with poor sales as piracy.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 9, 2015)

Piracy technically can't hurt sales ideally since people that pirate aren't gonna buy the game anyways. So even if piracy was removed from the equation, it wouldn't add up to more sales.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

duwen said:


> The Fact that Golden Sun released right at the end of the DS's life probably had as much to do with poor sales as piracy.


The 3DS was first released in 2011 and had low sales until 2012. On top of that, games like Pokémon Black/White and Art Academy were released at the same year and sold 15+ million units and almost 4 million units worldwide. A game that teaches you to draw sold more than one of the games people bitched most to get a sequel and then didn't sell too well. The name alone should've made at least two million units sold. But nope, because all the fans had a flashcard. gg


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

guitarheroknight said:


> Actually its 9.6 or above  Sky on 9.2 really doesnt make sense. Those who are on 9.2 either use GW or a CFW.


Either way it's not a problem that can't be dealt with using software or hardware. The same thing happened in every generation before - Nintendo makes new AP, pirates break that AP and move along. Considering the fact that both releases are by Nintendo, this might be some kind of proprietary AP that won't be in effect for all releases - only time can tell. Seeing that there were no worthwhile 3DS releases since March I'm not really bothered.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Golden Sun Dark Dawn (a random example, mind you) sold less than 800k copies worldwide (500k in Japan alone), yet it's the most downloaded non-pokémon game for the Nintendo DS (check your warez sites). It's very easy to kill a franchise.
> 
> http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35078/golden-sun-dark-dawn/



I figured the AP killjoy police would show up on the Temp sooner or later.  Go fig.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> I figured the AP killjoy police would show up on the Temp sooner or later.


Yup, useless sarcasm in response of facts. I figured the "STEALING ISN'T WRONG" killjoly police would show up on the Temp sooner or later.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Yup, useless sarcasm in response of facts. I figured the "STEALING ISN'T WRONG" killjoly police would show up on the Temp sooner or later.



Sorry, when were we supposed to care again? Nothing like AP sycophants showing up to ruin the fun, you're on the wrong site, buddy, go preach your antipiracy BS agenda elsewhere.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/piracy-common-myths.344858/

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...nally-admits-most-piracy-estimates-are-bogus/

Most people on here don't give a damn about piracy "affecting" sales, so.....spare me your sycophancy.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Sorry, when were we supposed to care again? Nothing like AP sycophants showing up to ruin the fun, you're on the wrong site, buddy, go preach your antipiracy BS agenda elsewhere.
> 
> http://gbatemp.net/threads/piracy-common-myths.344858/
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...nally-admits-most-piracy-estimates-are-bogus/


You are free to steal whatever you want as long as you sleep at night, but please don't try to justify yourself saying that piracy killing the industry is a myth when I literally proved you the opposite one page ago. Piracy can kill the small industries, we don't need more "oh I'm doing nothing wrong" around because of people like you. You want to steal? Good, do it yourself, don't push others to YOUR propaganda. All I did was proving you wrong.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Yup, useless sarcasm in response of facts. I figured the "STEALING ISN'T WRONG" killjoly police would show up on the Temp sooner or later.


"Copying is not theft - copying makes one more, stealing leaves you with one less". GS: Dark Dawn didn't sell because it was the DNF of the DS - it went through development hell from the release of the console till the game's release close to the end of the DS' lifespan and it was underwhelming garbage anyways. By the time it was out, not a lot of users remembered the series or wanted to buy the game - meanwhile pirating even a crap game costs nothing, so pirates had no reason not to try it out. The false idea you're pushing is that if not for the ROM, pirates would buy the game - they wouldn't. There is no such thing as a lost sale - a sale that wasn't made isn't lost, it's non-existant.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> You are free to steal whatever you want as long as you sleep at night, but please don't try to justify yourself saying that piracy killing the industry is a myth when I literally proved you the opposite one page ago. Piracy can kill the small industries, we don't need more "oh I'm doing nothing wrong" around because of people like you. You want to steal? Good, do it yourself, don't push others to YOUR propaganda. All I did was proving you wrong.



That's nice, but I'm still going to download the ROMs anyway, so really, I really don't give a damn.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> "Copying isn't theft - a copy makes one more, stealing leaves you with less".



An unpaid copy makes you less money.


Foxi4 said:


> GS: Dark Dawn didn't sell because it was the DNF of the DS - it went through development hell from the release of the console till its release close to the end of its lifespan and it was underwhelming garbage anyways. By the time it was out, not a lot of users remembered the series or wanted to buy the game - meanwhile pirating even a crap game costs nothing, so pirates had no reason not to try it out. The false idea you're pushing is that if not for the ROM, pirates would buy the game - they wouldn't. There is no such thing as a lost sale - a sale that wasn't made isn't lost, it's non-existant.



The game was announced the same year it was released. Try again?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



the_randomizer said:


> That's nice, but I'm still going to download the ROMs anyway, so really, I really don't give a damn. Don't push your AP bullshit either, and we won't push ours, sound good? Don't be such a sycophant.


:°D god you are so funny


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## Osha (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> the game's release close to the end of the DS' lifespan and it was underwhelming garbage anyways.


This so much. I can assure you the majority of the downloads were out of curiosity because so many people were surprised about the bad feedback of the game.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> An unpaid copy makes you less money.


That's no evidence that a pirate would buy the game. You can't talk about losses, nothing was lost.


> The game was announced the same year it was released. Try again?


I distinctly remember talks about a GS sequel as early as 2006. Nothing official, but hey.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> An unpaid copy makes you less money.
> 
> 
> The game was announced the same year it was released. Try again?
> ...



Blah blah blah, "Oh look at me,  I'm the Temp's official AP white knight SWJ and I can say whatever I want on the Temp, yadda yadda yadda, yammer yammer"

We don't care.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> That's no evidence that a pirate would buy the game. You can't talk about losses, nothing was lost.
> 
> Nonsense. I distinctly remember talks about a GS sequel as early as 2006.



Any link? I remember people wanting a new GS game, but never any announcement about it.
Also, remember when people say "I'd buy the game if it didn't cost X"? That's because they have the free alternative. If there were no free alternatives, they'd sell more.



the_randomizer said:


> Blah blah blah, I'm an AP white knight SWJ and I can say whatever I want on the Temp, yadda yadda yadda.


:°°D


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Any link? I remember people wanting a new GS game, but never any announcement about it.
> Also, remember when people say "I'd buy the game if it didn't cost X"? That's because they have the free alternative. If there were no free alternatives, they'd sell more.
> 
> 
> :°°D



Dude, cut it out, we don't care, you're not our mother,  so please, spare us your lectures


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Any link? I remember people wanting a new GS game, but never any announcement about it.
> 
> Also, remember when people say "I'd buy the game if it didn't cost X"? That's because they have the free alternative. If there were no free alternatives, they'd sell more.


Logical fallacy to the maximum degree. You can't assume pirates would magically conjure up non-existant money to give to Nintendo. If they wouldn't be able to pirate the game, the only thing you can be sure of is that they wouldn't pirate it - the rest is pure conjucture.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> Logical fallacy to the maximum degree. You can't assume pirates would magically conjure up non-existant money to give to Nintendo. If they wouldn't be able to pirate the game, the only thing you can be sure of is that they wouldn't pirate it - the rest is pure conjucture.



If I knew any game that didn't have any piracy I'd let you know. I know none though, so we'll never know. The only thing I know is that people bitched for years for a GS 2 and when it came out everyone (everyone) I knew that had a DS and a flashcard played it. Sure, I don't know the majority of the human population, but my guess is that, if they had no choice, at least half of them would've bought the game.



the_randomizer said:


> Dude, cut it out, we don't care, you're not our mother,  so please, spare us your lectures.


:°°°°°°°D


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

*Removed post for reasons*


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 9, 2015)

There are many people I've talked to who only pirate because the option is there and would buy if the option wasn't there but I don't think this is a piracy discussion thread...


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> If I knew any game that didn't have any piracy I'd let you know. I know none though, so we'll never know. The only thing I know is that people bitched for years for a GS 2 and when it came out everyone (everyone) I knew that had a DS and a flashcard played it. Sure, I don't know the majority of the human population, but my guess is that, if they had no choice, at least half of them would've bought the game.


Pretty sure GS: DD was GS3 - GS2 was on the Game Boy Advance. There were some platforms that didn't suffer from much piracy, but they weren't mainstream, so there's not much to talk about in that regard. Anywho, if all the evidence you have is anecdotal, you don't have a lot to support your theory. The way I see it, if pirates had any intention of buying video games, they would just buy them. It's not about having or not having free alternatives, it's about intended purpose. If you want anecdotal evidence, back when I was a young lad my console purchases were exclusively predicated by whether or not I could pirate on the system - I had no intention to buy games that I didn't collect. Now that I do have income, I don't pirate nearly as much - practically not at all, even though I can and I do have the necessary hardware to do so.


RichHomieSupreme said:


> There are many people I've talked to who only pirate because the option is there and would buy if the option wasn't there but I don't think this is a piracy discussion thread...


You have to consider the fact that because piracy comes free of charge, you can pirate hundreds of games. You wouldn't buy all of them - you'd buy maybe 1 each 10 games you download. Piracy inflates the issue due to its convenience.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> Pretty sure GSD was GS3 - GS2 was on the Game Boy Advance. There were some platforms that didn't suffer from much piracy, but they weren't mainstream, so there's not much to talk about in that regard. Anywho, if all the evidence you have is anecdotal, you don't have a lot to support your theory. The way I see it, if pirates had any intention of buying video games, they would just buy them. It's not about having or not having free alternatives, it's about intended purpose. If you want anecdotal evidence, back when I was a young lad my console purchases were exclusively predicated by whether or not I could pirate on the system - I had no intention to buy games that I didn't collect. Now that I do have income, I don't pirate nearly as much - practically not at all, even though I can and I do have the necessary hardware to do so.



People with a flashcard are more likely to pirate something they'd have bought without knowing about it because they don't see the point. I've seen many posts of pirates saying the only "good" thing about buying a game was having the physical cartridge, that's it. Forget about the company, right?



the_randomizer said:


> *More SJW insults*



:°°°[...]°°°°°D


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> People with a flashcard are more likely to pirate something they'd have bought without knowing about it because they don't see the point. I've seen many posts of pirates saying the only "good" thing about buying a game was having the physical cartridge, that's it. Forget about the company, right?


There are also pirates who download games because they're unwilling to pay $40-$60 blindly and prefer to test the game beforehand. Many a times I've bought games that I pirated simply because I liked them and I wanted to put them on my shelf.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> There are also pirates who download games because they're unwilling to pay $40-$60 blindly and prefer to test the game beforehand. Many a times I've bought games that I pirated simply because I liked them and I wanted to put them on my shelf.


I can believe they are a very small minority. A very small minority compared to pirates who pirate games permanently. Otherwise games like GS wouldn't have sold so little.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> I can believe they are a very small minority. A very small minority compared to pirates who pirate games permanently. Otherwise games like GS wouldn't have sold so little.


Why? The game wasn't fun. I pirated it, played it for an hour and deleted it - I value my free space. It wasn't even a fraction of what the original GS was. I would've been disappointed if I bought it and I would no doubt return it or trade it for something else. Don't blame low sales on pirates, blame them on developers who should be making games people want to buy. You have no evidence.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> Why? The game wasn't fun. I pirated it, played it for an hour and deleted it - I value my free space. It wasn't even a fraction of what the original GS was. I would've been disappointed if I bought it and I would no doubt return it or trade it for something else. Don't blame low sales on pirates, blame them on developers who should be making games people want to buy. You have no evidence.



I agree, the game was the weakest in the serious, I tried it for a couple hours, it was weak, boring, I wish I never wasted time on it.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> I agree, the game was the weakest in the serious, I tried it for a couple hours, it was weak, boring, I wish I never wasted time on it.


I bet Xenoblade Yawnicles sold poorly due to piracy too, even though I literally almost fell asleep the first time I played it. I pirated the game and I still felt bad - what a waste of time and bandwidth, that was a DVD-9 ISO, a pretty large file.


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> Why? The game wasn't fun. I pirated it, played it for an hour and deleted it - I value my free space. It wasn't even a fraction of what the original GS was. I would've been disappointed if I bought it and I would no doubt return it or trade it for something else. Don't blame low sales on pirates, blame them on developers who should be making games people want to buy. You have no evidence.


The reviews of the game are pretty good. Many would have bought it and kept it.

Also, there are many pirates who still play the games they download through the end even if they say they "don't pay it because it sucks" but then they complete it. They are the worst hypocrites of the genre.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> I bet Xenoblade Yawnicles sold poorly due to piracy too, even though I literally almost fell asleep the first time I played it. I pirated the game and I still felt bad - what a waste of time and bandwidth, that was a DVD-9 ISO, a pretty large file.


To each his own. I had a ton of fun with it. I thought it sold well though. Never checked.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> The reviews of the game are pretty good. Many would have bought it and kept it. Also, there are many pirates who still play the games they download through the end even if they say they "don't pay it because it sucks" but then they complete it. They are the worst hypocrites of the genre.


Sure. Still, you can't assume that someone who didn't buy a given good would've bought it if there was no alternative - such a person would have to be really dedicated to a given game, and that's a one in a million case. You know what people would do if they couldn't pirate DS games? They would buy PSP's and pirate PSP games.


RichHomieSupreme said:


> To each his own. I had a ton of fun with it. I thought it sold well though. Never checked.


Dropped like a lead zeppelin, didn't even reach the magical 1 million units sold milestone.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 9, 2015)

At least the psp doesn't require you to buy a card from some shady dudes on the internet to pirate


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## Vipera (Aug 9, 2015)

Foxi4 said:


> Sure. Still, you can't assume that someone who didn't buy a given good would've bought it if there was no alternative - such a person would have to be really dedicated to a given game, and that's a one in a million case. You know what people would do if they couldn't pirate DS games? They would buy PSP's and pirate PSP games.



Not necessarily dedicated, just pissed enough after he downloaded the 10th virus/Yahoo toolbar from the internet to drop 40 bucks to a game


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## gjac1 (Aug 9, 2015)

sorry , wrong product lol


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## Foxi4 (Aug 9, 2015)

Love me some off-topic advertising.


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## duwen (Aug 9, 2015)

Vipera said:


> The reviews of the game are pretty good. Many would have bought it and kept it.
> 
> Also, there are many pirates who still play the games they download through the end even if they say they "don't pay it because it sucks" but then they complete it. They are the worst hypocrites of the genre.



No, reviews for the game are average at best. Even on the page you linked to, the comments are pretty much all pointing out its flaws.

I played the first two Golden Sun games on my GBA - loved the first one, thought the second one was ok.
I too, just as Foxi4 pointed out, remember hearing of a third installment being in development at least 4 years before it was released...
...and even though I own several DS flashcarts, and downloaded the GS rom, I never, ever, got around to playing it because of how lack-lustre all the reviews had been. There are so many good rpg's for the DS, why would anyone waste their time and/or money on one that's not as good as others?
And, do you know what? Despite owning a flashcart I still bought plenty of games that deserved to be bought.

Same with my 3ds - even though I've only had my Sky3ds card for just over a month, and have been playing pirated games on a daily basis with it, I've still paid for several eshop titles and imported a Japanese retail release over the same period.


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## KashiToxicBlood (Aug 9, 2015)

Gateway Master Race!


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## MassiveRican (Aug 9, 2015)

@Vipera It makes no sense to say that if there was no piracy, any given product would sell more, I agree with Foxi4. If the pirate could not pirate the product they simply wouldn't buy it, which still equates to no sale. There is no way that half of the pirates would have bought the given product, that's ridiculous. Possibly a small percentage might purchase it if the game was actually really good, but most likely it's the same percentage people that have the capability to pirate and still pay for a worthwhile product regardless to support said franchise, company, developer.

The impact of piracy is miniscule at best to overall profits. AP is more to satisfy investors and shareholders, and for developer peace of mind that they're product won't be available for free on an insecure device.


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## gamesquest1 (Aug 9, 2015)

lol "half of all pirated games would have been sales if people couldnt pirate them" thats complete BS.....i think with the most optimistic of figures it would be 10% MAX, and even out of that 10% you can be sure at least 90% of those sales would be second hand sales, people who cant afford to buy the game legit, almost certainly wouldn't be buying them brand new anyway, so the only people being damaged to any sizable margin would be the gamestops of the world, and lets face it i doubt publishers will be sad about that considering second hand sales do more financial damage to publishers/developers than pirates ever could

truth is that when people can pirate they will try any game they can, they will download packs of hundreds of games simply because they can, they would almost certainly not have enough spare money to fund buying 50% of those games brand new even if they really really wanted to, think about it, if someone downloads even 100 games, to buy those games brand new retail would be in the region of £4000....i doubt most people have that kind of money to drop on games that they would probably never have the free time to play through them all anyway


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## haipro2001 (Aug 10, 2015)

I bought my N3ds  just for fire emblem if... But i had wasted all my money for the sky3ds................ ... ...Hope i can downgrade from 9.9


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## duwen (Aug 10, 2015)

haipro2001 said:


> I bought my N3ds  just for fire emblem if... But i had wasted all my money for the sky3ds................ ... ...Hope i can downgrade from 9.9



If you bought your N3ds just for FE:If, why would you even buy a Sky3ds when it would be cheaper to just buy the retail cart of FE?


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## Ashtonx (Aug 10, 2015)

Hate to repeat myself but i'm glad i bought gateway 3ds (3.4)



Vipera said:


> I can believe they are a very small minority. A very small minority compared to pirates who pirate games permanently. Otherwise games like GS wouldn't have sold so little.



You're naive and brainwashed, most pirates buy games they like. All pirates i know have tons of legit games.


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## Vipera (Aug 10, 2015)

Ashtonx said:


> You're naive and brainwashed, most pirates buy games they like. All pirates i know have tons of legit games.


AHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Ashtonx (Aug 10, 2015)

Thank you for proving my point.


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## Vipera (Aug 10, 2015)

If you think I'm going to waste my time trying to reason with some random idiot who called me "naive and brainwashed" think again.


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## MrJason005 (Aug 10, 2015)

I think it mostly boils down to: it's not worth buying games if you're into pirating.
Think about it, Pirates may be either cheap, or poor. If you're one of the poor pirates, even if you wanted to buy a game, you'd buy it used.
But if you bought it used, no money absoloutely would go to the developers. Therefore, if you try to enforce the "Devs need money to make good games!!!" logic in this scenario, it barely holds water.
Physical copies now are mostly a novelty, and are merely there for satisfaction.
I have 3 legit DS games, and I'd love to pick up all 6 Layton games. But I'd rather wait for them to be dirt cheap, than to buy them now.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 10, 2015)

MrJason005 said:


> But if you bought it used, no money absoloutely would go to the developers. Therefore, if you try to enforce the "Devs need money to make good games!!!" logic in this scenario, it barely holds water.
> Physical copies now are mostly a novelty, and are merely there for satisfaction.



I have never had much success in getting my head around the used games thing. Used games are a thing, have been a thing and will most likely to be a thing, moreover they are entirely legal* so accounting for them would seem to similar to hoping the magic money fairy floats on by and drops some funds into your account. Likewise I treat the words of those arguing against them using that argument in much the same way I would treat the financial advice of someone suggesting magic money fairies as a financial plan. Now I definitely think devs should design games for long term appeal, up to and including being worried by the toy maker's next Christmas problem, but that is perhaps a different discussion.

*I have to assume this as every anti second hand thing has been an appeal to the (potential?) customer, however anti piracy types are constantly seeking creative ways to interpret laws or push new ones.


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## KashiToxicBlood (Aug 10, 2015)

haipro2001 said:


> I bought my N3ds  just for fire emblem if... But i had wasted all my money for the sky3ds................ ... ...Hope i can downgrade from 9.9


impossible, gain ARM9 Kernel on 9.9 n3ds


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## Xenon Hacks (Aug 10, 2015)

KashiToxicBlood said:


> impossible, gain ARM9 Kernel on 9.9 n3ds


Tell that to yellows8 and smealum


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## insidexdeath (Aug 10, 2015)

This piracy check is pretty much pointless for the original 3DS though and the N3DS since people are able to crypto fix these games assuming you're on <9.2.


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## KashiToxicBlood (Aug 10, 2015)

Xenon Hacks said:


> Tell that to yellows8 and smealum


so i tell that to the same people? damn, because i recall yellows8 IS Smealum secretly


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## Lucifer666 (Aug 10, 2015)

KashiToxicBlood said:


> so i tell that to the same people? damn, because i recall yellows8 IS Smealum secretly


what.
what the hell is this.


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## KashiToxicBlood (Aug 10, 2015)

Lucifer666 said:


> what.
> what the hell is this.


it's an inside joke with people i know


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## tony_2018 (Aug 14, 2015)

funnystory said:


> I mean on my dslite I have a firecard(clone card) that works fine,not that Ive played it in 6 years. But point being here, sky3ds is shady. Gateway bricked consoles out of nerd rage which was completely unprofessional, I don't care if people bought cloned flashcarts. That is ridiculous that they would brick a 3DS that somebody worked hard to buy. I never bought either card, I just patiently waited for CFW and I couldn't be happier. I can't say I can complain about CFW since it is completely free so even if I could only play 50% of games I couldn't complain. However, sky3ds charges people for a sub-par product that at first could only load 10 games permanently. How can sky3ds justify their 90$ price tag if it isn't flawless and has more limitations than CFW?



Nerdy rage? HAHAHA!!! No they were protecting there product from being duplicated.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If you downloaded a pirated copy of a game than you are pirate.  Stop making up dumb excuses like, temporary pirate/permanent pirate.  Same damn difference, you pirated the game regardless.  Its really just stupid how some of these excuses are being made up just to justify the purchase of a card.


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## funnystory (Aug 14, 2015)

tony_2018 said:


> Nerdy rage? HAHAHA!!! No they were protecting there product from being duplicated.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> If you downloaded a pirated copy of a game than you are pirate.  Stop making up dumb excuses like, temporary pirate/permanent pirate.  Same damn difference, you pirated the game regardless.  Its really just stupid how some of these excuses are being made up just to justify the purchase of a card.



Im not justifying anything,but bricking someones console is unprofessional. I don't need to justify piracy to myself what are you talking about? You look ignorant when you quote me with this nonsense when did I say anything about piracy?


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## tony_2018 (Aug 14, 2015)

funnystory said:


> Im not justifying anything,but bricking someones console is unprofessional. I don't need to justify piracy to myself what are you talking about? You look ignorant when you quote me with this nonsense when did I say anything about piracy?



You retard....they don't allow double posts so as you can see, it auto merged.


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## funnystory (Aug 14, 2015)

tony_2018 said:


> You retard....they don't allow double posts so as you can see, it auto merged.



Your the retard here worrying about what people do with their consoles get of this thread your making yourself look stupid


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## tony_2018 (Aug 14, 2015)

funnystory said:


> Your the retard here worrying about what people do with their consoles get of this thread your making yourself look stupid



Oh shut your ass up. I guess you're of those who makes up excuses on why you have a sky3ds.


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## funnystory (Aug 14, 2015)

tony_2018 said:


> Oh shut your ass up. I guess you're of those who makes up excuses on why you have a sky3ds.



I got CFW Im not slow


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## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2015)

Take it to a hotel room, you two, or get back on topic.


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## funnystory (Aug 14, 2015)

the_randomizer said:


> Take it to a hotel room, you two, or get back on topic.



.


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 14, 2015)

He's a minimod. They don't have titles.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2015)

RichHomieSupreme said:


> He's a minimod. They don't have titles.



I asked people to knock it off and keep the thread on topic, which was better than watching those two go at it like an old, married couple. And I don't know what he wrote that he edited, but I'm sure it wasn't very nice.


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## VinsCool (Aug 15, 2015)

This thread is entertaining


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## MrJason005 (Aug 15, 2015)

haipro2001 said:


> はい.


Lovely! You can read hiragana!


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## RichHomieSupreme (Aug 15, 2015)

tony_2018 said:


> Nerdy rage? HAHAHA!!! No they were protecting there product from being duplicated.



Isn't that ironic? Pirates not wanting their work pirated/copied. :3


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## tony_2018 (Aug 16, 2015)

RichHomieSupreme said:


> Isn't that ironic? Pirates not wanting their work pirated/copied. :3



I guess, but than again how would you feel if someone duped your work to make it easy for them to cash in on it, knowing well that you and your team put some effort to be the first on the market and have put in more time  to expand on supported  firmware and additional hardware? I'd be pissed as fucked.


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## MidLevelCrisis (Aug 25, 2015)

ignored this tread a while since it was going terrebly off topic.
Soooo, any update on the SKy3DS situation? There is still nothing to be found on their website, and their template file lists all of the fire emblem lf games.


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