# An indiegogo Campaign - GLideN64, a new generation, open-source graphics plugin for N64 emulators



## Surkow (Aug 6, 2014)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gliden64-graphics-plugin



​ 
Sergey "Gonetz" Lipskiy is working on a next generation graphics plugin for Nintendo 64 emulators and is currently targetting Windows, Linux and Android. It will bring more accurate frame buffer and depth buffer emulation and many other features currently not supported by existing graphics plugins. He hopes to be able to work fulltime on the project with the help of an Indiegogo campaign.



			
				Sergey Lipskiy said:
			
		

> The GLideN64 project started as a hobby. I spent my free time on it and
> achieved results unreachable with other similar plugins. However, the
> project remains in alpha stage, unusable for end users. To bring it to
> the new level I need to spend much more time on it. I call you to
> ...


 
Source

*UPDATE:*
*Main goal has been reached with $7646 at time of update, but there are more stretch goals to achieve! A bit more ($8000) and we will have support for android support, while $10000 goes for OS X support, better anti-aliasing, wide-screen hacks and more. If you're interested in the project, do donate. Less than 12 hours to go!*


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## uyjulian (Aug 13, 2014)

Been following this guy since he started GLideN64, this guy is amazing, but he needs some money so he has plenty of time.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 14, 2014)

Silentsurvivor don't even think about it.

This project amazing for sure, furthering N64 emulation, I mean, I'm glad that it's being worked on and not dead anymore lol.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 15, 2014)

...Why exactly do we need to fund a guy to do a plugin? All the other plugins I've seen for emulators have been done for free.


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## bobmcjr (Aug 15, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ...Why exactly do we need to fund a guy to do a plugin? All the other plugins I've seen for emulators have been done for free.


The money gives Gonetz an incentive and the ability to work on this plugin as if it were a full time job, allowing for a higher quality plugin to be produced much faster than if this were simply a hobby project. If it were easy to emulate N64 graphics completely, it would've been done by now.

Also, remember crediar's quadforce fund?

Edit: The threads should probably be merged.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 15, 2014)

bobmcjr said:


> The money gives Gonetz an incentive and the ability to work on this plugin as if it were a full time job, allowing for a higher quality plugin to be produced much faster than if this were simply a hobby project. If it were easy to emulate N64 graphics completely, it would've been done by now.
> 
> Also, remember crediar's quadforce fund?
> 
> Edit: The threads should probably be merged.


 

I just don't see the need to pay $6,000 for a graphics plugin for an emulator. Like, it's nice and all, but people do these things for free all the time. Hell the guy who made the N64 emulator that this plugin is for probably made it for free. It's not something that should be made a "full time job."

Also like any Kickstarter, paying upfront with no accountability is a dumb idea. He could easily say "I'm bored of this project or hit a wall" and abandon it but keep all the money.


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## Coto (Aug 15, 2014)

Gonetz have had helped with developing Glide 64, being a fan of 3dfx technology, on a 166mhz voodoo 3 3500 2x (PCI66 mode) agp card, I could feature motion blur framebuffer effects, and 1280x960 res using glide.. (aka no matter if you've got a p2 300, works wonder)

that is simply amazing.

I support this guy.


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## uyjulian (Aug 15, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I just don't see the need to pay $6,000 for a graphics plugin for an emulator. Like, it's nice and all, but people do these things for free all the time. Hell the guy who made the N64 emulator that this plugin is for probably made it for free. It's not something that should be made a "full time job."
> 
> Also like any Kickstarter, paying upfront with no accountability is a dumb idea. He could easily say "I'm bored of this project or hit a wall" and abandon it but keep all the money.


 
this guy is credible, he worked on Glide64


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 15, 2014)

julialy said:


> this guy is credible, he worked on Glide64


 

I'm not questioning credibility, I don't think he's scamming, but why does he need $6,000 to do a plugin? Most people do them for free. That's my point.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm not questioning credibility, I don't think he's scamming, but why does he need $6,000 to do a plugin? Most people do them for free. That's my point.


 

Maybe he doesn't have a job right now? Hard to say for sure really.


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## uyjulian (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Maybe he doesn't have a job right now? Hard to say for sure really.


 
Work = less time.
No work = no money.

That's why he needs the money.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

julialy said:


> Work = less time.
> No work = no money.
> 
> That's why he needs the money.


 

That's what I was thinking, but I didn't want to make an assumption without thinking. That being said, anything that furthers N64 is A-OK by me.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 15, 2014)

julialy said:


> Work = less time.
> No work = no money.
> 
> That's why he needs the money.


 

But the guy who made the emulator this is for probably put his own resources into it and made it while carrying on a job.

I just really hate Kickstarters (well this is an "indiegogo" but it's the same thing) and this one is no exception.


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## kristianity77 (Aug 15, 2014)

End of the day no one is forcing anyone to pay any money for anything. If at the end of it, we come out with near perfect N64 emulation then I'm all for it and fair play to the guy for putting aside months to work on this full time.

To be honest I'm surprised this sort of thing hasn't happened more.  I'd expect people would be all over donating if a group came out and said they could all work full time and perfect say a PS2 emulator which doesn't require sky high demands of PC hardware as it does currently.  I've no doubt people would contribute tens of thousands to see a project like that through to completion in total.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

IndieGoGo said:
			
		

> 10,000+ USD will allow me to spend time on experimental and user-demanded features(...) like Anti-aliasing, widescreen hack and native resolution support.


 
LOL


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

To sum this up, haters gonna hate.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

Getting Anti-aliasing and a Widescreen Hack behind a $4000 paywall is alerady strange enough, but why would you need that much money to get "native resolution support"? Isn't that taken for granted and rendering anything beyond that is the difficult part?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 15, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> End of the day no one is forcing anyone to pay any money for anything. If at the end of it, we come out with near perfect N64 emulation then I'm all for it and fair play to the guy for putting aside months to work on this full time.
> 
> To be honest I'm surprised this sort of thing hasn't happened more. I'd expect people would be all over donating if a group came out and said they could all work full time and perfect say a PS2 emulator which doesn't require sky high demands of PC hardware as it does currently. I've no doubt people would contribute tens of thousands to see a project like that through to completion in total.


 

The argument of "no one is FORCING you to do X" is a tired one. It doesn't stop the principle, it's just saying "W-well stay out of our business!"

I mean if people with technical skills like this want to make money from their skills they should get a job that does so. When numerous other plugins and other freeware has come out that dwarfs this, asking for $6,000 seems a bit ridiculous. People have done more for free out of their own passion and love for their respective hobby, you shouldn't have to pay someone for a plugin.


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## uyjulian (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> Getting Anti-aliasing and a Widescreen Hack behind a $4000 paywall is alerady strange enough, but why would you need that much money to get "native resolution support"? Isn't that taken for granted and rendering anything beyond that is the difficult part?


 
More money = less work = more time = more features


Guild McCommunist said:


> The argument of "no one is FORCING you to do X" is a tired one. It doesn't stop the principle, it's just saying "W-well stay out of our business!"
> 
> I mean if people with technical skills like this want to make money from their skills they should get a job that does so. When numerous other plugins and other freeware has come out that dwarfs this, asking for $6,000 seems a bit ridiculous. People have done more for free out of their own passion and love for their respective hobby, you shouldn't have to pay someone for a plugin.


 
How long does the freeware take to make without a job?


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## Arras (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> Getting Anti-aliasing and a Widescreen Hack behind a $4000 paywall is alerady strange enough, but why would you need that much money to get "native resolution support"? Isn't that taken for granted and rendering anything beyond that is the difficult part?


I think that means rendering at your monitors native resolution? And it's not so much a paywall, it's more of a "if I have more money, I can afford to work on this longer".


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 15, 2014)

julialy said:


> How long does the freeware take to make without a job?


 

Depends on what it is and what the scope is.

My point is I don't think a cash incentive should be needed to make a plugin for an emulator, especially at the tune of $6,000.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

julialy said:


> More money = less work = more time = more features


Features that have been implemented easily in any other emulator or plugin for free. Specially "Native Resolution Support" which is something trivial.



Arras said:


> I think that means rendering at your monitors native resolution? And it's not so much a paywall, it's more of a "if I have more money, I can afford to work on this longer".


 
"Rendering at your monitors native resolution" is High Resolution Rendering. By "Native Resolution" you mean rendering at the N64's Native 240p (There's already a pixel-perfect plugin that does this, made by HatCat, FOR FREE btw). And it is a PayWall yes, because what he means is that you're not getting such basic features if you guys don't get him +10,000 bucks.

Besides:



			
				IndieGoGo said:
			
		

> The project aims to provide to the public free of charge the most advanced N64 graphics plugin, with the full source code available under GPL.


Well, where is it then? He clearly did stuff already, he even has videos and screenshots. "B-but it's not done yet!"... Well, bullshit. If it's truly Open Source and under the GPL then it should be available right now, not after he gets the money.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Fan fact, the native res plugin is very CPU intensive and doesn't run full speed, nor will it ever run full speed, so there. Don't be so damned butthurt over it, if you hate him so much and hate his plugin, use the ones you've used before. Deal with it. Plugins take time, he doesn't work on it 24/7 so please, just get over yourself already.


Don't give him money then if you guys are so hellbent. Enjoy your slow-as-hell native res plugin from Hatcat then.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Fan fact, the native res plugin is very CPU intensive and doesn't run full speed, nor will it ever run full speed, so there. Don't be so damned butthurt over it, if you hate him so much and hate his plugin, use the ones you've used before. Deal with it.


 
HatCat's plugin has been running fullspeed since forever. And you want to argue system requirements?



			
				IndieGoGo said:
			
		

> System requirements are: graphics card with support of OpenGL 4.2 or better.


 
Well, tough shit. This won't run on toasters either, just like HatCat's plugin doesn't.

You know, I'm not being "so damned butthurt". It's just you guys are presenting something to me, to this forum, and asking us to donate. Sure. I'm questioning some very obvious and blatant things here, I'm not gonna donate to something blindly. If the best you can do is say "don't be so butthurt lol" you're not helping much.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> HatCat's plugin has been running fullspeed since forever. And you want to argue system requirements?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

O RLY? I have an MFing Core i5 3570 and that doesn't seem to be running full speed so, no. Native res is overrated, if I wanted native res I'd rather use the real thing, 240p on a 1920 x 1080 monitor looks like shit anyways. Don't blame me, I didn't make the OP, so you could just post on this thread, you don't have to read this or post on here. Then don't donate, no one is making you.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Aug 15, 2014)

On the subject of paying for emulation, I like this idea to be honest.

As long as the source code is put out so it can be improved where possible it could lead to the best of both worlds open source and paid development.

Interesting experiment and should be fun to see where it goes.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> O RLY? I have an MFing Core i5 3570 and that doesn't seem to be running full speed so, no.


For you.



the_randomizer said:


> Native res is overrated, if I wanted native res I'd rather use the real thing, 240p on a 1920 x 1080 monitor looks like shit anyways.


Yeah, it's an "user-demanded feature" so overrated that it needs $4000 to be made. I guess it's overpriced as well.



the_randomizer said:


> Don't blame me, I didn't make the OP, so you could just post on this thread, you don't have to read this or post on here. Then don't donate, no one is making you.


Well you're clearly supporting this thing hard and replying to every post by everyone, deflecting questions and giving likes to anyone who says nice things about it. Looks like one hell of an Astroturfing mob going on. But this is not the matter under discussion here.


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## kristianity77 (Aug 15, 2014)

End of the day N64 emulation is still pretty pants from where you would expect it to be these days.  And things like PS2 emulation and Gamecube/Wii etc all require pretty high end PCs in order to get things running smoothly.  

Its plainly obvious that if people took a job on like this on a full time basis that had undeniable talent, then they could bring these emulators to the mainstream, requiring much less powerful specs.  My laptop isn't good enough for PS2 or Wii, but is good enough for the rest.  But if some group of programmers told me that they could churn out an emu that requires a lot less specs and would be way more compatible purely on the basis that they could all take it up as a full time job for 6 months or so, I'd chuck money into it.  Not so much for the end product as much as for the kudos for someone who can do it, to take it on and spend all their time doing it for us to enjoy.

And as for the "You dont have to pay if you dont want to" getting old and boring, why is it?  Its a perfectly valid statement! Some people will pay for some things that others wouldn't.  Its no different here.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> End of the day N64 emulation is still pretty pants from where you would expect it to be these days. And things like PS2 emulation and Gamecube/Wii etc all require pretty high end PCs in order to get things running smoothly.
> 
> Its plainly obvious that if people took a job on like this on a full time basis that had undeniable talent, then they could bring these emulators to the mainstream, requiring much less powerful specs. My laptop isn't good enough for PS2 or Wii, but is good enough for the rest. But if some group of programmers told me that they could churn out an emu that requires a lot less specs and would be way more compatible purely on the basis that they could all take it up as a full time job for 6 months or so, I'd chuck money into it. Not so much for the end product as much as for the kudos for someone who can do it, to take it on and spend all their time doing it for us to enjoy.
> 
> And as for the "You dont have to pay if you dont want to" getting old and boring, why is it? Its a perfectly valid statement! Some people will pay for some things that others wouldn't. Its no different here.


 

I think we'd best leave the machinations and mentalities of those who are bitter to themselves and let it fester for a while, due to me having a bit of schadenfreude.


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## Arras (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> Features that have been implemented easily in any other emulator or plugin for free. Specially "Native Resolution Support" which is something trivial.
> 
> 
> 
> "Rendering at your monitors native resolution" is High Resolution Rendering. By "Native Resolution" you mean rendering at the N64's Native 240p (There's already a pixel-perfect plugin that does this, made by HatCat, FOR FREE btw). And it is a PayWall yes, because what he means is that you're not getting such basic features if you guys don't get him +10,000 bucks.


 
While he may not add them himself, he'll release the source, so there's nothing to stop someone else from doing it. He's not trying to make a profit or anything, just to enable him to actually spend more time working on this thing. Considering his old plugin took 10 years to develop, it seems to be a case of time = money.
Although honestly I don't understand the resolution thing? If it supports custom resolutions, couldn't you just set it to 240p anyway?



> Besides:
> 
> 
> Well, where is it then? He clearly did stuff already, he even has videos and screenshots. "B-but it's not done yet!"... Well, bullshit. If it's truly Open Source and under the GPL then it should be available right now, not after he gets the money.


I don't see what's wrong with not wanting to release a half-assed thing. Most devs don't.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

Arras said:


> Although honestly I don't understand the resolution thing? If it supports custom resolutions, couldn't you just set it to 240p anyway?


I don't understand it either: why would something so trivial need time and money to implement? That's what I'm asking, but I guess only Gonetz knows.



Arras said:


> I don't see what's wrong with not wanting to release a half-assed thing. Most devs don't.


All Open Source projects have the code available Day 1. Sure for the end user it doesn't matter. But if he's fully commited to the GPL, he should have done that. This only damages his image because he's holding code hostage at this point. 

It's not an issue that you or everyone else that is donating is supportive of this, it's ok - I don't hate it or anything like that. Just, I think this could have been handled better by him. There are a lot of things in the air and he's not sorting it out. The stretch goals don't make sense for example as I already discussed.

But I guess he doesn't care much since it's already past halfway funded.


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## Arras (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> I don't understand it either: why would something so trivial need time and money to implement? That's what I'm asking, but I guess only Gonetz knows.
> 
> 
> All Open Source projects have the code available Day 1. Sure for the end user it doesn't matter. But if he's fully commited to the GPL, he should have done that. This only damages his image because he's holding code hostage at this point.
> ...


I'm not donating, I'm a cheapass and I personally really don't care about N64 emulation.
Also, no - the GPL only ever requires you to make the code public the moment you actually release the work. There's no need to release everything the moment you announce it. The code hostage thing... eh. I don't really mind it myself, so I guess that's just an agree to disagree thing.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

Well, fair enough.


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## Vipera (Aug 15, 2014)

Good to know places that were born to give the chance to let the developers give the middle-finger to publishers have now become a place to make money off hobbies.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Vipera said:


> Good to kow places that were born to give the chance to let the developers give the middle-finger to publishers have now become a place to make money off hobbies.


 
Good to know that we have people willing to contribute to a discussion in a civil and non-sarcastic way while actually reading what it's all about, but who are we kidding?  Funny how people bitch about this but not about the fact people like Gateway rip people off.


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## uyjulian (Aug 15, 2014)

And the topic goes down the spiral...


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

julialy said:


> And the topic goes down the spiral...


 

I think I may weep openly at this point.


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## raulpica (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> "Rendering at your monitors native resolution" is High Resolution Rendering. By "Native Resolution" you mean rendering at the N64's Native 240p (There's already a pixel-perfect plugin that does this, made by HatCat, FOR FREE btw). And it is a PayWall yes, because what he means is that you're not getting such basic features if you guys don't get him +10,000 bucks.


This x9000. HatCat's plugin is the only decent plugin out there. Gliden64 feels terribly inaccurate when you compare them, and I'm pretty sure it is.

tl;dr, all these guys pouring money over an outdated plugin (it probably still has SO much code made to work on 3dfx...) when they could just send money to someone to create a REAL, ACCURATE plugin based on HatCat's work (which in turn is based on the MESS emulation).



the_randomizer said:


> O RLY? I have an MFing Core i5 3570 and that doesn't seem to be running full speed so, no. Native res is overrated, if I wanted native res I'd rather use the real thing, 240p on a 1920 x 1080 monitor looks like shit anyways. Don't blame me, I didn't make the OP, so you could just post on this thread, you don't have to read this or post on here. Then don't donate, no one is making you.


Sorry but it ran pretty much full speed on my E8400, so yeah, you're definitely wrong there.

And it looks AMAZING. While GlideN64 is just blurred and stretched stuff to make it look nice.

I want AUTHENTIC emulation, not "enhanced" crap.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

raulpica Yeah I think I'm done with this thread , I'll use emulation for >240p and real hardware for straight up 240p. *Hides*

I must be doing something wrong with the plugin, because I have rotten luck, and 240p makes my eyes hurt to be perfectly honest, and I can't uh, well, get it to work, maybe I need his RSP plugin as well, I don't know. That being said, I'm better off not participating in this discussion or having the audacity to voice my opinions on why I like native res on real hardware and filtering on emulation, because well, I'm only pissing people off. So I'll refrain from using my opinions to piss people off, that's the only option for me at this point. Mine are obviously of no worth, so why bother voicing them?

If it were up to people to focus on accuracy, we'd all have emulators that require hexacore processors like Bsnes. No thank you. Emulators shouldn't require super powerful CPUs to run.


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## raulpica (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> raulpica Yeah I think I'm done with this thread , I'll use emulation for >240p and real hardware for straight up 240p. *Hides*
> 
> I must be doing something wrong with the plugin, because I have rotten luck, and 240p makes my eyes hurt to be perfectly honest, and I can't uh, well, get it to work, maybe I need his RSP plugin as well, I don't know. That being said, I'm better off not participating in this discussion because I'm only pissing people off.


As long as you have a constructive dialogue, nobody would have anything to complain - you just started criticizing HatCat's plugin without much to back it up and that made you look like a GlideN64 fanboi.

I remember there weren't many configuration options to begin with, funny thing. Also I seem to remember that it's an entirely software plugin, so the GPU shouldn't matter. Maybe your emulator is incompatible with it? (Pretty sure I used 1964, I don't like Project64 because of their entire pay-for-the-betas thing). I might have used a different RSP plugin, can't remember.

Anyway, 240p is the way to go if you're emulating something which RUNS at 240p. Also, my monitor upscaled it pretty well and I didn't see anything wrong with it.


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## Arras (Aug 15, 2014)

raulpica said:


> This x9000. HatCat's plugin is the only decent plugin out there. Gliden64 feels terribly inaccurate when you compare them, and I'm pretty sure it is.
> 
> tl;dr, all these guys pouring money over an outdated plugin (it probably still has SO much code made to work on 3dfx...) when they could just send money to someone to create a REAL, ACCURATE plugin based on HatCat's work (which in turn is based on the MESS emulation).
> 
> ...


No, this is basically a completely rewrite based on glN64. It shouldn't have the old 3dfx code in there. While the name is extremely similar, the code should not be.


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## raulpica (Aug 15, 2014)

Arras said:


> No, this is basically a completely rewrite based on glN64. It shouldn't have the old 3dfx code in there. While the name is extremely similar, the code should not be.


I see. Still, I can't see how people are throwing money at him when there's clearly more skilled people out there, which have done a better work in a shorter lapse of time - that money could go to them to create an even better product.

Oh well, I suspect that most people don't even know about HatCat/MESS's work, so I suppose it's kinda expected.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

raulpica said:


> As long as you have a constructive dialogue, nobody would have anything to complain - you just started criticizing HatCat's plugin without much to back it up and that made you look like a GlideN64 fanboi.
> 
> I remember there weren't many configuration options to begin with, funny thing. Also I seem to remember that it's an entirely software plugin, so the GPU shouldn't matter. Maybe your emulator is incompatible with it? (Pretty sure I used 1964, I don't like Project64 because of their entire pay-for-the-betas thing). I might have used a different RSP plugin, can't remember.
> 
> Anyway, 240p is the way to go if you're emulating something which RUNS at 240p. Also, my monitor upscaled it pretty well and I didn't see anything wrong with it.


 

PJ64 no longer is in beta and is free, so that's no longer an issue, 2.1.0.1 is the most recent version, that being said, I am personally not a big fan of native res at all unless I use the real hardware, even if it is inaccurate, it makes my eyes bleed, unless there was a basic filter, then it wouldn't be so bad. I can't adjust his plugin resolution window size to very big, so it's a small window on a large screen so I'll pass. Those who like native can like native, those who like hi res like hi-res, agree to to disagree and leave it at that. I liked Glide64 and it's my plugin of choice, and if people call me a fanboi for that, so be it, I don't give a flying shit at this point, whatever people use, I don't care. I hate it when people come into this thread and started to bash Glide64 without any substantiation so I don't know how my bashing Hatcat's plugin was any more wrong than Gonetz bashing. Not justifying it, but people will never agree with this plugin and there will be those who won't agree with Hatcat's plugin.

I don't know what the hell I'm even doing on this thread to be honest. I use whatever the hell I want when it comes to plugins and if people don't force their ideals on me, I have no reason to convince them back to use GlideN64.

If I want native res, native 240p, I'll use the real hardware. If I want hi-res, I'll use the Glide-based plugins. I don't see why the people on this thread have to call people out for not wanting to use Hatcat's plugin, that's their prerogative, is it not?

It almost seems that if you admit to not liking native res on an emulator is tantamount to a crime or something. Dammit this is starting to irk me. Nothing will ever convince me to use native res, despite it being accurate.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer You keep talking about using Real Hardware for 240p, but in the other thread you said the Everdrive isn't worth it. Do you have a complete collection of N64 games or something?


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> the_randomizer You keep talking about using Real Hardware for 240p, but in the other thread you said the Everdrive isn't worth it. Do you have a complete collection of N64 games or something?


 

I do have a fair number of them actually, my N64 is at my home currently, so I don't have immediate access to it, but yes, a decent collection of games. I just thought the Everdrive is too expensive if you get it complete in a cartridge, and the lockout chip soldered on, etc.


Guess I'm just kinda biased that way for some reason.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

I see.

Regarding "Gonetz bashing" you should know his image wasn't very well mantained among the scene all these years. Just take a look at the thread on byuu's forum about the crowdfunding.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> I see.
> 
> Regarding "Gonetz bashing" you should know his image wasn't very well mantained among the scene all these years. Just take a look at the thread on byuu's forum about the crowdfunding.


 

I'm not particularly fond of Byuu either (long story, will save for a PM or other thread, don't want to elaborate here), I confess I haven't followed the scene at all for N64 emulation. On the other hand, I'm not a fan of native res/software rendering because I have fears of frying my CPU and as such, hate unnecessarily high system requirements for an 18 year-old console, or any old console for that matter. I shouldn't have to use all four cores to run a soft GPU plugin, or whatever it requires, and I can't get full speed, so I'm doing something wrong. Native res is too painful for me to look at, I'm so used to hi-resolution that I can't go back, and have no reason to go back. I wasn't aware of Gonetz past, or any developer's past for that matter, but again, I don't know much of the behind-the-scenes development. So, yeah.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Native res is too painful for me to look at, I'm so used to hi-resolution that I can't go back, and have no reason to go back.


Well to be honest here I wasn't talking about Native res being better or worse than anything, as this is a matter of preference. I was just questioning why he put that as a $10000 stretch goal since it was a trivial thing that would be in there all the time to begin with. Same thing for Anti-Aliasing, which the footage/screenshots he posted already have.

But nobody knows what's going on with him so it's not like you or anyone else would have an answer. It is weird though. My guess: Fine, he needs $6000 to develop it (don't think it's right but still). Whatever else he gets past that goes straight to his pockets because the stretch goals aren't really anything at all. Then there's the fact he's Russian, and while $6000 might not look like much for your average American, it's worth much more where he lives (heck it's more than double the value in Brazil).


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> Well to be honest here I wasn't talking about Native res being better or worse than anything, as this is a matter of preference. I was just questioning why he put that as a $10000 stretch goal since it was a trivial thing that would be in there all the time to begin with. Same thing for Anti-Aliasing, which the footage/screenshots he posted already have.
> 
> But nobody knows what's going on with him so it's not like you or anyone else would have an answer. It is weird though. My guess: Fine, he needs $6000 to develop it (don't think it's right but still). Whatever else he gets past that goes straight to his pockets because the stretch goals aren't really anything at all. Then there's the fact he's Russian, and while $6000 might not look like much for your average American, it's much more where he lives (heck it's more than double the value in Brazil).


 

I'm also not the biggest fan of plugins and/or emulators that require a super beefy processor to run at acceptable speeds. I don't mind accuracy, but to an extent. Like take Kega Fusion, one of the most accurate Genesis/Megadrive emulators, it runs all commercial ROMs, but doesn't require a Core i7 Extreme to run full speed, that's how it should be done, accurate and fast, not accurate and fry your CPU. Byuu is another interesting fellow, something must have ticked him off because well, yeah, he doesn't like me, long story,. Anyways, there has to be a balance between accuracy and speed; if the emulator is so accurate that only a small % of CPUs can run it, f**k it.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

I agree for the most part, but byuu had the right mentality with bSNES. Back in 2011 or so the requirements were astronomic, but right now they're really paltry. I have a laptop dedicated to Retro stuff that has a miserable Core i3 and it's capable of running bSNES Balanced just fine and over 100+ FPS.

I prefer accuracy overall. Sure graphical enhancements are fine, but I feel Accuracy is a priority over it. I'm not very found of N64 emulation since it's all HLE. I do use the real hardware for N64 games as I've had a decent sized collection as well over the years and the few games I want to play but I don't have are very cheap. I feel Gliden64 is still limited because it's just a plugin, there's only so much it can do by itself.

Overall it's just preference though, you just use what you like. I just think this crowdfunding stuff is very shoddy.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> I agree for the most part, but byuu had the right mentality with bSNES. Back in 2011 or so the requirements were astronomic, but right now they're really paltry. I have a laptop dedicated to Retro stuff that has a miserable Core i3 and it's capable of running bSNES Balanced just fine and over 100+ FPS.
> 
> I prefer accuracy overall. Sure graphical enhancements are fine, but I feel Accuracy is a priority over it. I'm not very found of N64 emulation since it's all HLE. I do use the real hardware for N64 games as I've had a decent sized collection as well over the years and the few games I want to play but I don't have are very cheap. I feel Gliden64 is still limited because it's just a plugin, there's only so much it can do by itself.
> 
> Overall it's just preference though, you just use what you like. I just think this crowdfunding stuff is very shoddy.


 

And I have to respect that instead of getting my panties in a twist as I had done earlier, people have different tastes and I need to realize that. I personally prefer Snes9x over Bsnes/Higan due to the GUI being too weird for my tastes. Just like Glide64 over other plugins as native res makes my eyes bleed lol.


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## raulpica (Aug 15, 2014)

You both make very good points - but it's obvious that accuracy is the way to go. Just look at what NESticle caused for NES translation and hacks.

Most were so reliant on imprecise emulation, that they won't work on modern emulators anymore. Nor they could ever run on real hardware!

So, someone now needs to spend the time fixing something which shouldn't have been broken in the first place.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

I think for NES it wasn't as bad as SNES honestly. So many hacks and translations made for ZSNES that have now gone to waste...


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

raulpica said:


> You both make very good points - but it's obvious that accuracy is the way to go. Just look at what NESticle caused for NES translation and hacks.
> 
> Most were so reliant on imprecise emulation, that they won't work on modern emulators anymore. Nor they could ever run on real hardware!
> 
> So, someone now needs to spend the time fixing something which shouldn't have been broken in the first place.


 

I believe there needs to be a balance however, between accuracy and speed, if an emulator is so accurate that it requires a super beefy CPU, then I don't think it's worth my time and effort to download and use it. Nestopia is a good example, extremely accurate and extremely fast, that's good way to do it. Same with Genesis Plug GX and Kega Fusion, very accurate and fast, that's the way to approach it IMHO.





Sizednochi said:


> I think for NES it wasn't as bad as SNES honestly. So many hacks and translations made for ZSNES that have now gone to waste...


 
Oh GOSH Zsnes is so bad it's terribad, the IE 6 of Snes emulators, very outdated and unfortunately popular.


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## raulpica (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> I believe there needs to be a balance however, between accuracy and speed, if an emulator is so accurate that it requires a super beefy CPU, then I don't think it's worth my time and effort to download and use it. Nestopia is a good example, extremely accurate and extremely fast, that's good way to do it. Same with Genesis Plug GX and Kega Fusion, very accurate and fast, that's the way to approach it IMHO.


You're forgetting that higan/bSNES is a *cycle-exact* emulator. That's the key here. "Really accurate" is not cycle-exact. What makes higan demanding is that the level of accuracy is down to every single frequency in the original motherboard. That's really important for some edge-cases which require utmost precision (like that Speedy Gonzales game).

About Kega Fusion, read this. It fails some tests which require cycle-exact timing. Someone needs to draw a line between "good enough for me" (ZSNES was, and many people used it because of that) and "100% accurate". That's why you get both kind of emulators. If your PC can't cope with the 100% accurate emulator, you just use a less accurate one.

But in 2 years, the more accurate one will be able to run even on low-mid range computers, and everyone will have a superior product to run.

If byuu just thought "lol screw this, it's too slow" 4 years ago, we wouldn't have higan now.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> I believe there needs to be a balance however, between accuracy and speed, if an emulator is so accurate that it requires a super beefy CPU, then I don't think it's worth my time and effort to download and use it. Nestopia is a good example, extremely accurate and extremely fast, that's good way to do it. Same with Genesis Plug GX and Kega Fusion, very accurate and fast, that's the way to approach it IMHO.


 
Well Nestopia for an NES emulator isn't extremely fast. When it came out it was also pretty demanding, but as time went on we're at a point that such requirements are no big deal anymore. The same thing will keep happening with bSNES as the years fly by. And for anyone else out there there's always SNES9X.

As for Genesis Plus GX, it's really great. It's not extremely accurate but it's as accurate as it needs to be, with chip-synchronization and 100% compatibility. I love the Retroarch port of it.

For the N64 scene, I think Cen64 looks really promising, and the way to go with it. After the rewrite was done, it's already reaching fullspeed on a number of games on stock Haswells.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeah, this is just a plugin, it's not worth the pledging or the attention. The scene lived for years prior to Kickstarter, it will be fine now without it today as well. People used to code this sort of thing not for money, but for the _"fame and glory"_, for the respect of their peers. It's interesting how people used to code without a worry on their mind for years and it's _now_ that _"work and real life are in the way, so they need donations"_. What happened to hobbyism? I thought a hobby was rewarding in and out of itself.

Here's a better idea - release the plugin _(which is obviously done by now, otherwise we wouldn't see any screenshots)_ and leave a PayPal donation button on the downloads page for those who value the coder's work enough to warrant a donation. Any other scenario hides something that's _already finished and ready to be released_ behind a paywall for no real reason.

Here's a different idea - if it's the money you're after, don't make a silly plugin, make a commercial emulator of your own. They're legal - Bleem! set the precedence in law, you're in the clear.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> Well Nestopia for an NES emulator isn't extremely fast. When it came out it was also pretty demanding, but as time went on we're at a point that such requirements are no big deal anymore. The same thing will keep happening with bSNES as the years fly by. And for anyone else out there there's always SNES9X.
> 
> As for Genesis Plus GX, it's really great. It's not extremely accurate but it's as accurate as it needs to be, with chip-synchronization and 100% compatibility. I love the Retroarch port of it.
> 
> For the N64 scene, I think Cen64 looks really promising, and the way to go with it. After the rewrite was done, it's already reaching fullspeed on a number of games on stock Haswells.


 

Well see I don't have a Haswell, and I don't plan on getting one in the foreseeable future due to not having a lot of money to throw around, maybe it'll work on an Ivy Bridge, I don't know, but yes, a balance between speed and accuracy is a good balance indeed. As for Nestopia, the Wii port on RetroArch is fantastic and way better than the FCEU port (no skipping issues), and runs full speed, which is outstanding. I personally use Snes9x because of the easier to navigate GUI, and the fact I can force the aspect to fill the entire screen. One thing is for sure, Genesis Plus is more accurate than Gens ever was lol.




raulpica said:


> You're forgetting that higan/bSNES is a *cycle-exact* emulator. That's the key here. "Really accurate" is not cycle-exact. What makes higan demanding is that the level of accuracy is down to every single frequency in the original motherboard. That's really important for some edge-cases which require utmost precision (like that Speedy Gonzales game).
> 
> About Kega Fusion, read this. It fails some tests which require cycle-exact timing. Someone needs to draw a line between "good enough for me" (ZSNES was, and many people used it because of that) and "100% accurate". That's why you get both kind of emulators. If your PC can't cope with the 100% accurate emulator, you just use a less accurate one.
> 
> ...




I guess I could use the Bsnes core via RetroArch and bypass the weird GUI that way.  I like cycle-accurate audio a lot, as I'm very picky about how emulators sound, like Snes9x and Bsnes, both use Blargg's S-SMP core, so they both sound like the real deal, but for graphics, not so much.


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## Sizednochi (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> I guess I could use the Bsnes core via RetroArch and bypass the weird GUI that way. I like cycle-accurate audio a lot, as I'm very picky about how emulators sound, like Snes9x and Bsnes, both use Blargg's S-SMP core, so they both sound like the real deal, but for graphics, not so much.


 
I personally use Retroarch for everything. I'd recommend using that too. You do have to get used to the GUI, but once you do it's really outstanding, so many amazing features that standalones don't have. And you can use Genesis Plus GX on Windows using it which is always great. I'd never dare using Higan standalone, since it has Game Folders and all that stuff.


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## SickPuppy (Aug 15, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> That's what I was thinking, but I didn't want to make an assumption without thinking. That being said, anything that furthers N64 is A-OK by me.



So how much will you be funding to the project?


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## the_randomizer (Aug 15, 2014)

Sizednochi said:


> I personally use Retroarch for everything. I'd recommend using that too. You do have to get used to the GUI, but once you do it's really outstanding, so many amazing features that standalones don't have. And you can use Genesis Plus GX on Windows using it which is always great. I'd never dare using Higan standalone, since it has Game Folders and all that stuff.


 

Genesis Plus GX is one of the best Genesis emulators all around, Nestopia is nice, so is Snes9x 





SickPuppy said:


> So how much will you be funding to the project?


Well, seeing as I have a negative account, I can't.


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## vayanui8 (Aug 20, 2014)

I'd rather see a new N64 emulator than just a plugin. Project 64 works okay, but its far from ideal


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## the_randomizer (Aug 20, 2014)

vayanui8 said:


> I'd rather see a new N64 emulator than just a plugin. Project 64 works okay, but its far from ideal


 

Better than it used to be though.


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## Minox (Aug 25, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> On the other hand, I'm not a fan of native res/software rendering because I have fears of frying my CPU and as such, hate unnecessarily high system requirements for an 18 year-old console, or any old console for that matter.


Unless your CPU is malfunctioning and your cooling is insufficient it should never fry from being fully utilized.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 25, 2014)

Minox said:


> Unless your CPU is malfunctioning and your cooling is insufficient it should never fry from being fully utilized.


 

Still not a big fan, if I wanted native res, I'd use real hardware instead, native res looks like garbage on a 1920 x 1080 monitor, but this is solely my opinion and stance on the matter. For cycle-accuracy, I'll stick to Mednafen PSX on RetroArch (very accurate), Nestopia, Genesis Plus GX/Kega Fusion, etc. For Snes, Snes9x, Mupen64 Plus for N64 to name a few. Never gonna use Higan again, not a huge fan, at all. I still get paranoid at overexerting the CPU in some instances.

I don't like it when the emulation accuracy is so accurate that it comes at such a cost, there has to be a balance between speed and accuracy.


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## NES_player4life (Aug 28, 2014)

Only $500 to go,
92% funded!


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## the_randomizer (Aug 28, 2014)

NES_player4life said:


> Only $500 to go,
> 92% funded!


 

Hell yeah!


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## NES_player4life (Aug 29, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Hell yeah!


Make that 94 100%


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## Surkow (Aug 30, 2014)

> $6,000_USD_
> raised of $6,000 goal


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## NES_player4life (Aug 30, 2014)

> $6,000_ $6,025USD_
> raised of $6,000 goal


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## uyjulian (Aug 30, 2014)

Let's reach for the skies!


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## granville (Sep 5, 2014)

It's reached its primary goal, but there's a little more time. The Android stretch goal at least is within reach. Less than 12 hours to go but only a few hundred $ more. $10,000 might not happen, but there are some other cool features if it reaches that including an OSX port, a new widescreen hack, better anti aliasing, and some other features.


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## uyjulian (Sep 5, 2014)

As of this post, 9 more hours.


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