# atheism



## xcalibur (Nov 22, 2007)




----------



## dakeyras (Nov 22, 2007)

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, noone has claimed there was nothing that magically exploded. But instead it was always there only not in the same shape. That is, it was more compact and then expanded.

Also, tell me something that does happen for a reason.


----------



## Jax (Nov 22, 2007)




----------



## Veho (Nov 22, 2007)




----------



## Samutz (Nov 22, 2007)




----------



## BoneMonkey (Nov 22, 2007)

i belive in jebus ! 

thank you jebus !


----------



## jgu1994 (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Actually, if I'm not mistaken, noone has claimed there was something that magically exploded. But instead it was always there only not in the same shape. That is, it was more compact and then expanded.
> 
> Also, tell me something that does happen for a reason.



Stated really really well!!

Also, your poster is horribly wrong. The m theory states that the cause of the big bang is due to membranes rippling and touching each other, which than causes the big bang. Besides what makes more sense.  A particle explosion that can be explained by science, or the belief that one big ass guy said let there be light, and all of the sudden everything came to be.


----------



## Hitto (Nov 22, 2007)

Religious nuts always try so hard, and fail even harder because they don't realize one simple thing.

You can insult atheists all you want. But you'll always be the idiots in that battle, because atheism can be destroyed with only ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.

Go on, now. Present your evidence, and God wins. OR, you can keep looking like a dumbass religious zealot.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 22, 2007)




----------



## RayorDragonFall (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Religious nuts always try so hard, and fail even harder because they don't realize one simple thing.
> 
> You can insult atheists all you want. But you'll always be the idiots in that battle, because atheism can be destroyed with only ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.
> 
> Go on, now. Present your evidence, and God wins. OR, you can keep looking like a dumbass religious zealot.



Sorry... what?


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 22, 2007)

When you understand why *you* dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours...

- Sam

*PS:* No bad flaming, mmmkay... Sam's on the prowl


----------



## xcalibur (Nov 22, 2007)

as riled up as you guys might get... theres a reason i posted this in the testing area rather than off topic discussion
it was just some meaningless fun

also

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Atheism


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Religious nuts always try so hard, and fail even harder because they don't realize one simple thing.
> 
> You can insult atheists all you want. But you'll always be the idiots in that battle, because atheism can be destroyed with only ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.
> 
> Go on, now. Present your evidence, and God wins. OR, you can keep looking like a dumbass religious zealot.


Go on and live your pathetic and meaningless life.  You are one pessimistic, unhappy, jerk.  Religion is not all about believing that one entity that rules all, it's about guiding us in a righteous, ethical, and moral path.  Although there are many who claims to be "religious" and sin at the same time, they do not represent the rest of us, and those I do not respect.  However, you have no reason to look down on all religious people, as much as I do not look down on all atheists.  On top of that, can atheists themselves provide a solid evidence that God is not real?  Until aesthetics have complete evidence, what you said was completely useless.  You stand on the same ground as us.  I don not hate non-hypocritical atheists, and I look upon every human being in equal grounds no matter what background or religion they have, I am open minded.  You are almost the same as the very people you are trying to insult.  Believing in a religion does not make you a "dumbass".  I hate those hypocritical atheistic bastards who thinks religious people are automatically idiots.  The greatest minds in the history were religious.  Einstein once said: "Atheists Miss the Wonder of the World".  Although I do not completely agree with that comment, I've seen one too many pessimistic atheists.


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 22, 2007)

You don't need religion to be moral and ethical.  I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I think murder and adultery is okay.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's an insult to the humans to think that we need religion to be good people.

It's not about being pessimistic or optimistic ... it's about being realistic.  Just because it's optimistic to think I'll live an immortal life in heaven if I simply believe in a god ... doesn't mean I'll believe in it.  I'm totally fine with thinking that I will live a finite life ... the way every other animal/organism on earth has a finite life.  And even if I want to believe in God (or a god), I can't.  I can't bring myself into believing in mysterious, invisible, supernatural beings.  Belief is not a choice.


----------



## Jiggah (Nov 22, 2007)

How the heck does not believing in a magical being make you a pessimist?  I'm open to new ideas, just new ideas that have some sort of logical proof, which religion doesn't offer.  Religious folks like throwing out that pessimist bull, but if you really look at it...in the end, they are pessimists.  They believe they know the answers to the universe and how everything will end.  Why does the Sun burn?  Oh, because God did it...the end.  How did humans come to be?  Because God created us, we don't need to look back and see our evolution through the billions of years that the Earth has been here.

As an atheists, I don't need to prove the nonexistence of your God.  My atheism stems from the simple fact that there is zero proof of a God.  Hence, it's called faith.  If you want to phrase it that way, why don't you go disprove any other God, or anything imaginary.  Try proving that Leprechauns don't exists.

The use of Einstein is such a wrong frame of reference.  He didn't believe in organized religion either.  He was a Deist.  They don't believe in the same type of God that most monotheist religions believe.  God simply created the Universe, he doesn't care about you, he doesn't judge you, he's doesn't have a place for you in heaven.  He's like a father that just took off after having screwed your mother.


----------



## JPH (Nov 22, 2007)

-Edit- Well, the discussion isn't that bad...you fellas seem mature enough to discuss it in a proper manner.
Damn...I gotta stop backseat moddin'


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Nestea80 @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> You don't need religion to be moral and ethical.Â I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I think murder and adultery is okay.Â
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not what I'm saying, as I said I got nothing against atheists, there are many atheists who are good people (although I do not agree on their beliefs).  Religion is to guide sad people like him, however, there are good people who do not need to be guided.
I didn't judge atheists, I judged this person based on his post.
@Jiggah, I have muslim parents, but I also do not believe in organized religion.  However, I am not an atheist, just like Einstein.
I am religious, but not superstitious.  I don't believe in magical beings.


----------



## hanman (Nov 22, 2007)

Uncyclopedia said:
			
		

> Atheists believe that living in your parent's basement, playing video games, and insulting religious people on internet message boards all day is an excellent and fulfilling lifestyle. Atheists also believe that they are the only ones good enough to be scientists and that any other religion and science are completely incompatible. To get the general public to believe this, they spread the lie that all Christians are conservative Republicans who believe literally in the creation story.



QFT


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(hanman @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Uncyclopedia said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WHO ARE YOU TO POKE FUN AT MY LIFESTYLE.

- Sam


----------



## HellShade (Nov 22, 2007)

Atheism has only come to be because there is not a single viable shred of evidence proving god's existence.

However, every scientific advancement thus far has never supported what the bible says to be true. On top of that, some advancements contradicts the bible itself.

Holding religion to self in a passive manner is completely fine. However, being a zealous idiot is not.

Edit: Frankly, a passive-religious uses their religion more as a philosophy than a religion. Think about it.


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(HellShade @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Atheism has only come to be because there is not a single viable shred of evidence proving god's existence.
> 
> However, every scientific advancement thus far has never supported what the bible says to be true. On top of that, some advancements contradicts the bible itself.
> 
> Holding religion to self in a passive manner is completely fine. However, being a zealous idiot is not.


Again, zealous atheism is also wrong.  Those who believe that every person who has faith are complete idiots are also wrong.

Science has yet to prove anything.  Laws of physics relies more on kinematics, and are having a rather hard time on dynamics.  The worst part is to this day, no physicists or chemists can prove why things work the way they do.  The best they can do is dynamics.  For those of us who freely believe, we do not go strictly by that book, we borrow the good teachings of the book such as moral values and such.


----------



## BoneMonkey (Nov 22, 2007)

im a nihilist I BELIEVE IN NOTHING ! lol


ni·hil·ism    audio  (n-lzm, n-)  KEY  

NOUN:

1. Philosophy
1. An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
2. A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
2. Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief.
3. The belief that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future improvement.
4. also Nihilism A diffuse, revolutionary movement of mid 19th-century Russia that scorned authority and tradition and believed in reason, materialism, and radical change in society and government through terrorism and assassination.
5. Psychiatry A delusion, experienced in some mental disorders, that the world or one's mind, body, or self does not exist.


----------



## Hadrian (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(BoneMonkey @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> im a nihilist I BELIEVE IN NOTHING ! lol


Nihilists! [email protected] me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.


----------



## BoneMonkey (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Hadrian @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(BoneMonkey @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > im a nihilist I BELIEVE IN NOTHING ! lol
> ...



this isn't NAM there are RULES !


----------



## Hadrian (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(BoneMonkey @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Hadrian @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(BoneMonkey @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> ...


Wtf does Vietnam have to do with anything? 

A few posts for the Lebowski fans.


----------



## cubin' (Nov 22, 2007)

Cheers Westside, some very good points. 


Jesus was a really awesome dude. Helping out everyone he could and being nice to everyone..he probably smoked marijuana too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't confine myself to one religion I make up my own based on my own values and that sort of thing. 

I think the catholic church need to take a closer look at Jesus. For instance he wouldn't see anything wrong with gay people and he believed in treating people the way you'd like to be treated. Lots of catholics seem to have lost their way in that sense. I don't think he'd believe in taking the bible literately either! It's just a bunch of stories where you're meant to figure out the lesson, not a set of rigid rules. 

Totally respect whatever anyone else chooses though, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others. 

Well that was a random post. Enjoy.


----------



## 111111111 (Nov 22, 2007)

Atheists are as freaky as the religious nuts imo.  they all have their own little agenda they like to push.

a good 85% of atheists I've ever met have been big believers in science too which is just religion for the modern times.


Nihilism has always interested me, and I've known a few goffs who are (or at least claim to be) nihilists.  more power to them I say, even if in its traditional forms it isn't for me.


----------



## Jiggah (Nov 22, 2007)

Explain exactly why science is a religion?  With science, if you find any proof that contradicts what science already knows, science itself will change.  In fact, science is always changing.  I also find it odd that people like to distance themselves away from science but are willing to put up with the things that come out of it.  Like the computer one uses for example, or going to the hospital for vaccine shots.  Bash it like it's an unwanted step-child only to go beg it for money when it hits the lottery.


----------



## lagman (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(111111111 @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> ...
> 
> a good 85% of atheists I've ever met have been big believers in science too which is just religion for the modern times.
> 
> ...



The thing is that a scientist -a good one at least- would LOVE to be proven wrong.


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(HellShade @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Atheism has only come to be because there is not a single viable shred of evidence proving god's existence.
> 
> However, every scientific advancement thus far has never supported what the bible says to be true. On top of that, some advancements contradicts the bible itself.



1) Science only explains "How" not 'Why"

2)If there is no God we have to say that this happened by chance. But, before you think that is a straightforward explanation, let's look at what would be involved.

If we decide that the first life to occur was a self-replicating cell, we have accepted that something extremely improbable happened. The probability of the spontaneous production of just the 200 enzymes necessary for such a cell has been calculated as 1 in 10^40,000. That is 1 in 10 with 40,000 zeroes after it. This is a massive figure especially when compared with the largest estimate of the life of the universe (under the Big-Bang theory) which is around 10^17 seconds. So then, for there to have been just one step from lifeless chemicals to the simplest form of life known, it means that an event with the probability of 1 in 10^40,000 happened in 10^17 seconds.

_"That is about as ridiculous and improbable as the proposition that a tornado, blowing through a junkyard, could assemble a Boeing 747."_  Sir Fred Hoyle


----------



## 111111111 (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Jiggah @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Explain exactly why science is a religion?
> It has a hierarchy, it's primarily used now (although I'll agree not always) to make money for the moneyed, and to take money from the poor (oh look, more results from a scientist that confirm what the people paying his funding want found).
> 
> It's also blindly followed by people (your average person in the street) who'll oooh and aaah at the things they see in the media that science will do for them in xx amount of years (most of which never materialise), the scientists are of course receiving massive funding (both out of public money and from private corporations).  How is that different from preachers in the past promising people will goto heaven if they pay 10% of their wages to the church?
> ...


why do you assume people goto hospital for vaccines?  some of us can live life without medical treatment you know, it's not a vital necessity.

In the oldene days people would "bash" the religions of the time, and then use them as protection.

When fighting against an incumbent you'll use anything you can get. including the powers, protections and inventions of an enemy.


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Jiggah @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Explain exactly why science is a religion?Â With science, if you find any proof that contradicts what science already knows, science itself will change.Â In fact, science is always changing.Â I also find it odd that people like to distance themselves away from science but are willing to put up with the things that come out of it.Â Like the computer one uses for example, or going to the hospital for vaccine shots.Â Bash it like it's an unwanted step-child only to go beg it for money when it hits the lottery.


Nothing is wrong with Science, again what he is saying is the people who follow it religiously.  Idiots who think that they proved something using discoveries of real scientists.  Scientists who made discoveries about what life is admits that they know of what but will always have a hard time on why.  Before scientists prove both sides of the equation, these idiots use them as proofs to fend off others.  Can you explain why momentum and inertia works the way they do?  What drives things (especially inorganic) to form the way they are?  Scientists are great, but don't blindly missuse discoveries for proofs.
@TGBoy Outstanding reasoning.  Is it completely impossible that there is an exterior influence on this?


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> _"That is about as ridiculous and improbable as the proposition that a tornado, blowing through a junkyard, could assemble a Boeing 747."_Â Sir Fred HoyleÂ


But surely if the universe is infinite (or just very, very big) then everything has to have happened at every point at sometime during the course of history. That means that somewhere, at sometime, I am a n00b  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




- Sam


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(sinkhead @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > _"That is about as ridiculous and improbable as the proposition that a tornado, blowing through a junkyard, could assemble a Boeing 747."_Â Sir Fred HoyleÂ
> ...


Again, the infinity of Universe is yet to be PROVEN, it is a theory.  Mathematicians are going crazy, because infinity does not exists as a single entity, it takes on many forms rather.  Negative and positive is the most basic.  Even with absolute values, there are still many examples.  There are infinite amount of integers, there are infinite amount of Real numbers, there are more Real numbers than Integers, are they still the same infinity?


----------



## VVoltz (Nov 22, 2007)

Believing in nothing is kinda boring..., I have to admit that.


----------



## Mehdi (Nov 22, 2007)

What I find weird is that only humans believe in religion. I mean u don't see a bird flying into a church for prayer on sundays.

So if there is a God wouldn't everything he created worship him. 

I just wonder what religion aliens practice, cause if there is a similarity with one of ours we would find the right religion right?

But that's if Aliens exist.


----------



## Jiggah (Nov 22, 2007)

I'm just hoping now that some people have gone through college, or university for our friends overseas, and understand that scientific theory is not layman's theory.  For example, the theory of evolution in scientific terms is a theory because it's based on many different smaller different facts from a variety of different fields i.e. paleontology, genetics, geology, etc.  Same with the theory of gravity or germ theory.  In terms of physics, is given in proof by mathematics.

Theory of evolution at work = pesticide resilient insects.


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Jiggah @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> I'm just hoping now that some people have gone through college, or university for our friends overseas, and understand that scientific theory is not layman's theory.Â For example, the theory of evolution in scientific terms is a theory because it's based on many different smaller different facts from a variety of different fields i.e. paleontology, genetics, geology, etc.Â Same with the theory of gravity or germ theory.Â In terms of physics, is given in proof by mathematics.
> 
> Theory of evolution at work = pesticide resilient insects.


Who said evolution is wrong?  However, why would scientists themselves call it a theory?  The reason being that it suggests that human and all life originated from random chemical which even scientists are having a hard time believing by chance became organic.  That's the part of evolution that is questioned.  However, it is not entirely impossible, just like how the influential being or factor (that can be called this god that we refer to) on evolution is not entirely impossible.


----------



## modshroom128 (Nov 22, 2007)

the real truth to atheism.
snape kills dumblydore.


----------



## cubin' (Nov 22, 2007)

Evolution is easily the best theory we have compared to creationism and such.

You guys see so many benefits of science. Our life expectancy has doubled because of the advancements made in that area. Your grandmother or parents are probably alive because of science.


Science also feeds the poor. Genetically modifying wheat crops and the like to produce more wheat in a shorter amount of time in poor conditions without needing as much water.


----------



## Jiggah (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Westside @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Jiggah @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just hoping now that some people have gone through college, or university for our friends overseas, and understand that scientific theory is not layman's theory.Â For example, the theory of evolution in scientific terms is a theory because it's based on many different smaller different facts from a variety of different fields i.e. paleontology, genetics, geology, etc.Â Same with the theory of gravity or germ theory.Â In terms of physics, is given in proof by mathematics.
> ...



Evolution is easy to misunderstand and many people do.  They make this exact statement.  Unfortunately, evolution never claims that there is a beginning, it's simply the process that occurs after the beginning of life.  I believe you are talking about abiogenesis.  Some advancements in abiogenesis have already shown that the basic building blocks of humans i.e. amino acids can be produced under the same conditions seen during the early period of the Earth's formation.

And again, "theory" does not mean the same thing in science as it does in layman's term.  Evolution not simply a wild guess at how life goes about it's process.

And yes, cubin' even if evolution is not 100% correct it's still the best we've got at the moment.

Also, it sounds like people are saying well, science is wrong or doesn't know so let's default to God.  It should default to "we don't know."  See the pessimism here.


----------



## Westside (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(Jiggah @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Westside @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Jiggah @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> ...









 I've been taught at the wrong University then.  I've been told that evolution suggests that life had to evolve from something, I guess it's true; abiogenesis was a branch that was derived from evolution says if life was to originate from something, evolution from abiotics was it.  You are right however, the evolution theory that describes how life forms currently.


----------



## Osaka (Nov 22, 2007)

There are some scientists that there are an infinite amount of universes that exist within the 11th dimension. they beleive that if any of the universes happens to collide with one another, instead of the 2 universes like... blowing up... the second they touch, even a tiny bit, they are forced away from each other. at the point in which they did touch, matter is lost from the 2 universes and the lost matter creates a new universe.

thats is the explanation for the big bag theory that I have heard. and makes more sense than "nothing exploded into stuff"


----------



## Linkiboy (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(JPH @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Damn...I gotta stop backseat moddin'


Yes, you do. No one likes minimods.


----------



## JPH (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Linkiboy @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(JPH @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Damn...I gotta stop backseat moddin'
> ...



True that, sorry fellas.


----------



## 2cb2ct7 (Nov 23, 2007)

For those concerned about biogensis I suggest you have a look at Urey and Miller's famous experiment of the 1950's. The big problem with biogenesis is the self-organisation aspects. How can different molecules form complex architectures without violating the laws of thermodynamics (ie, entropy must always increase). This is completely different to _evolution_.

Evolution is a FACT. You take Staphylococcus aureus bacteria and give them methicillin over a number of bacterial generations (individual bacterium are very short-lived) and presto! You end up with an entire population of MRSA bacteria and a serious health-crisis. How (some) creationists can outright deny evolution is beyond a joke.

And to all the armchair scientists talking about which theories of the big bang make the most "sense"; you are dealing with some extremely high-order physics here. Things that make Newtonian "sense" do not make Einsteinian "sense". We all live in a Newtonian world and these are the only physics we understand intuitively. Sure, some people are gifted in mathematics and, through a lifetime of physics study, can become intuitive in the new physics. You are not one of them.


----------



## Bamboo (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Mehdi @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> What I find weird is that only humans believe in religion. I mean u don't see a bird flying into a church for prayer on sundays.
> 
> So if there is a God wouldn't everything he created worship him.
> 
> ...



Humans don't really know or understand what animals do....humans think they know everything about them intimately but they don't.
In my home town there are turkeys that live in the bush during the day they run around kind of separate then at about 5:30pm which is sunset you see them all coming out of the bush and congregate out on the beach right by the river mouth. 
Like about 60 of them it looks awesome. The stand there on the sand doing......what I dont know.
When the sun goes completely behind then horizon they go back into the bush. IT was strange to see the bush dwelling birds on the beach.
I at first thought like any dumb human it had something to do with food, but later I saw they weren't eating.
This spot is famous for humans going to watch the sunset as well.
There is a group of apes that get together at watch a waterfall swaying and making 'oooooo' sounds.
I think the animal mind is largely secret to most humans. Until we recognize that we are linked to them intimately (if it be evolution or a common creator) and stop thinking of them as objects that we own but individuals like us.


----------



## BoneMonkey (Nov 23, 2007)

lets just have everyone worship me ! 

bring me pizza and whores !


----------



## 2cb2ct7 (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(111111111 @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> It has a hierarchy, it's primarily used now (although I'll agree not always) to make money for the moneyed, and to take money from the poor (oh look, more results from a scientist that confirm what the people paying his funding want found).
> 
> It's also blindly followed by people (your average person in the street) who'll oooh and aaah at the things they see in the media that science will do for them in xx amount of years (most of which never materialise), the scientists are of course receiving massive funding (both out of public money and from private corporations).Â How is that different from preachers in the past promising people will goto heaven if they pay 10% of their wages to the church?
> 
> ...




You are the definition of "retard". As a research chemist (working for a not-for-profit pharmaceutical house) I am offended by your comments and their utter stupidity.

Now just jump in your deity-driven time machine and head back to the cromagnon dwelling you came from.


----------



## Bamboo (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Osaka @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> There are some scientists that there are an infinite amount of universes that exist within the 11th dimension. they beleive that if any of the universes happens to collide with one another, instead of the 2 universes like... blowing up... the second they touch, even a tiny bit, they are forced away from each other. at the point in which they did touch, matter is lost from the 2 universes and the lost matter creates a new universe.
> 
> thats is the explanation for the big bag theory that I have heard. and makes more sense than "nothing exploded into stuff"



well the big bang was commonly to be thought of as the beginning of everything.
but that new theory you mentioned still doesn't explain the beginning.
Only nothing can come from nothing. it was impossible for there ever to be nothing.
Something has existed forever. That is what we call god. IT is IMPOSSIBLE not to believe in god.


----------



## Osaka (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Bamboo @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Osaka @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > There are some scientists that there are an infinite amount of universes that exist within the 11th dimension. they beleive that if any of the universes happens to collide with one another, instead of the 2 universes like... blowing up... the second they touch, even a tiny bit, they are forced away from each other. at the point in which they did touch, matter is lost from the 2 universes and the lost matter creates a new universe.
> ...


they explained that they know this doesn't explains where everything came from in the first place, but it at least explains where WE came from.


----------



## Bamboo (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Osaka @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Bamboo @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Osaka @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> ...


I don't care where I came from. I care where mater itself came from. Atoms and the very existence of reality.


----------



## Osaka (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Bamboo @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Osaka @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Bamboo @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> ...


sometimes, you have to come to the conclusion that that question may never be answered.


----------



## VVoltz (Nov 23, 2007)

I won't post anything serious since this topic is in the Testing Area.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(VVoltz @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> I won't post anything serious since this topic is in the Testing Area.



The testing area doesn't mean this has to be silly, it just means the option exists to be silly.


----------



## VVoltz (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(VVoltz @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > I won't post anything serious since this topic is in the Testing Area.
> ...



Yeah sure, don't get me wrong, it's just that this matter would deserve to be on the off topic forum.


----------



## JPH (Nov 23, 2007)

What are the odds of the universe (planets, creatures, and so much complexity) coming into existence by a piece an exploding piece of matter...


That's like the odds of a tornado going thru a junkyard, creating an airplane.


----------



## Westside (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(VVoltz @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(VVoltz @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> ...


Not really, the original post wasn't meant to be General Off-topic.  It's just this topic expanded to a mass argument (euphemism for flaming).  So even now, it should stay testing.


----------



## VVoltz (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Westside @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> QUOTE(VVoltz @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> ...


You are probably right. To be really honest I have read only some of the postings.


----------



## Westside (Nov 23, 2007)

I was one of the flamers...


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 23, 2007)

I will let u in on a secret 
Directed Panspermia it is.
I tell u its those damn aliens they are experimentin wit us using earth as a test tube 
They brought us here.
They are planning to later mind control us to do their bidding...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





"All Your Base Belong to Us "


----------



## Deleted User (Nov 23, 2007)

I don't like religion because ... it's basically teaching people to believe in things blindly ... which leads to believing in lies.  Take 3 religions.  Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity.  Suppose, ten million people believe in Shiva.  Another ten million believe in Jesus.  Another ten million believe in Buddha.  Only one can exist (if one exists).  So that's at last twenty million people wasting their money/time/energy worshipping something that doesn't exist.  That's twenty million people teaching their children LIES.They are better off worshipping my toenail clippings, because I can show they exist.

Now which twenty million is the real deal?  Well, this is just an example.  There are really hundreds of religions out there.  It's really a lot easier to just see the big picture and realize that there is no ONE true religion.  Religion is a man made creation to answer the unexplained, to give people a reason to live, and for people to look to a higher being to guide them in their lives.

I'm not against religion because I enjoy it.  It's because I don't like seeing people devote their LIVES and TIME on things they have no proof of.  It makes me sad to see present humans at that level.  It is disgusting to teach children religion as FACT.  I could accpept religion maybe a few thousands years ago.  But now, we don't need religion anymore to explain why a rainbow appears in the sky.

And don't even say science is a religion.  That's a complete insult to science.  Don't even mix the two up.  Science has a method.  Science demands proof.  Science is logical.  

Talking bushes on fire,  is NOTHING close to science.  If you don't see anything absurd about talking bushes on fire, then you're a prime example of what religion does to people's minds.  You stop thinking critically and skeptically ... and accept the ridiculous as fact.  And in the bible, there's more than just one outrageous example of absurdity.  So to take the whole bible and accept it 100% ... is absolutely astonishing to me.  I can never imagine myself believing in such BS.  I can never bring myself to believe in that god.  My mind just doesn't allow me to do that.


----------



## Bamboo (Nov 23, 2007)

This post is directed at people who think science is unbiased.
And im talking about the majority here not ALL science.

Science is biased away from god when a discovery is made statements are made with the assumption there is no god or even to purposely disprove god. Science is not neutral as it should be. We live in a society that thinks that the idea of god is 'super natural' and 'magical' but why ? who the hell said ?
This maybe started When Darwin came up with the theory of evolution he was shocked that he had actually disproved god! He called himself 
"a naturalist", saying that god is unnatural, out of this world, the opposite of science. But really he didn't disprove god at all. His findings that he observed where animals adapting to different environments. He then added heaps of other theories one is the idea that god didn't create anything because it appears that it all made itself. He was so eager to disprove god that he jumped the gun.
The sad thing is though allot of people believed him even allot of the Christians. Such is science today. People ate up the "facts" that disproved god and went around telling Christian scientists that they were crazy. But today we now know that Darwin didn't actually disprove god  at all.

Why is man so  intent on disproving god ? why cant there be believers and just people who admit they don't know ? 
Because man doesn't know god. 
He thinks he does because people have told him what god is but most people out there who claim they know god dont,  and they make people think god hates gays hates people and all that stuff. Religion uses the word god for all kinds of horrible things and make people hate god or think the idea of god is crazy.


You don't know god you don't know what god is. so how can you say hes not real and that you don't believe or cant believe .


----------



## Bamboo (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Nestea80 @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> I don't like religion because ... it's basically teaching people to believe in things blindly ... which leads to believing in lies.Â Take 3 religions.Â Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity.Â Suppose, ten million people believe in Shiva.Â Another ten million believe in Jesus.Â Another ten million believe in Buddha.Â Only one can exist (if one exists).Â So that's at last twenty million people wasting their money/time/energy worshipping something that doesn't exist.Â That's twenty million people teaching their children LIES.They are better off worshipping my toenail clippings, because I can show they exist.
> Shouldn't the fact that so many people all believe in a god mean somthing to you ? not they fact that they are different gods ?
> No matter what man says he cant fully know god the biggest mistake is to say you are right and they are wrong. Nobody has all the answers not science and not any one religion. IT is impossible for man not to teach something that isn't true.
> Every year we learn that sumthing which where once thought as fact was actually not true.  Do you think you are exempt from lies because you believe in "facts" it was once taught that smoking was good for your health.
> ...



Have you read the whole bible ?
fact is you will only believe what you are willing to.
Edit: Just because you don't believe in a burning bush doesn't mean there is no god.


----------



## .TakaM (Nov 23, 2007)

serious discussion in the testing area?

Unacceptable


----------



## Bamboo (Nov 23, 2007)

hahhaaa


----------



## xcalibur (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(.TakaM @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> serious discussion in the testing area?
> 
> Unacceptable




they just wouldnt listen


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 23, 2007)

I keep tellin em its them aliens..
They watchin over us. There are in the moon. tats their spaceship. The pyramids of ghiza, and mayan pyramids. All theirs man.
Did u know they say the moon is older than earth...


----------



## 2cb2ct7 (Nov 23, 2007)

@Bamboo

You seem to take the fanatical Christian fundamentalist view of science. Usually this view denotes no actual understanding of what science is or where it came from, so let me tell you. Science has developed as a branch of what was known as natural philosophy. During the renaissance natural philosophy was but a branch of philosophy. It dealt with nature, the natural world, funnily enough. Natural philosophers concerned themselves only with natural phenomena that could be observed and measured. Many natural philosophers were in fact deeply religious (usually Christian).

So firstly, science does not equal atheism. Science does not ask questions about God because these are not appropriate questions for science to ask (natural philosopy, natural world, that which can be observed and measured).

Trust me, I have met some of the biggest religious zealots and freaks in the research arm of the pharma company I work at.

Secondly, the Bible is not literal truth. If you think that you are a moron. FACT.

The Old Testament is a collection of stories (told by whom? to who? in what language? when was this recorded? how many times has this printed collection been trasnlated to other languages?). The alteration of oral tradition through time and retelling is unavoidable. Think of a game of chinese whispers.

The New Testament is supposedly the (indirect) word of Jesus. What language did Jesus speak? Whom did he tell his stories to? When was the New Testament first recorded? How much long after Christ's life did this recording take place? Who recorded it? In what language? Why was a Council elected to choose which books to include? Is that the will of God?

That one really blew me away. The New Testament had books included based on decision by a collection of men. What about the forbidden books of the Bible? Is man just God's editor?


----------



## zeppo (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(.TakaM @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> serious discussion in the testing area?
> 
> Unacceptable



Now just wait until linky comes along with some comment about "stick it in Jesus' pooper" or some shit like that.


----------



## Veho (Nov 23, 2007)

Science.





The more you know the freakier it gets. Everyone's heard of the chaos theory? Does anyone know what it actually _means_? And if you mention butterflies, it means you have no idea, and are just blurting out buzzwords.


----------



## serious_sean (Nov 23, 2007)

regardless of what the conversation has devolved into, the fact remains that atheists don't necessarily accept the big bang theory, or science at all.

all atheism means is a lack of belief in supernatural gods.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(serious_sean @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> regardless of what the conversation has devolved into, the fact remains that atheists don't necessarily accept the *big band* theory








I DEFY YOU BIG BAND THEORY!


----------



## serious_sean (Nov 23, 2007)

nice catch. i edited that in less than 5 seconds


----------



## Veho (Nov 23, 2007)

THERE IS NO BAND! 


Or spoon. 


Or cake. 




The cake is a _lie_.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(serious_sean @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> nice catch. i edited that in less than 5 secondsÂ



Thanks.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(serious_sean @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> all atheism means is a lack of belief in supernatural gods.



What about natural gods?


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(serious_sean @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > all atheism means is a lack of belief in supernatural gods.
> ...


----------



## MrKuenning (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Nestea80 @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> You don't need religion to be moral and ethical.Â I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I think murder and adultery is okay.Â
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am just going to say one thing...   If there were no God, then there is no such things as morals.  It is only because there is a God that there is a diffrence between right and wrong.  If everything really happend by chance than ethicly you have as much value as a rock.   The very fact you believe murder to be wrong. Is proof of a God.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 23, 2007)

Are you being ironic?


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

Friends, Romans, Countrymen! Lend me your eyes and ears! I have before me, the answers to your questions...

*
For the atheist-type:*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o


*For the religious-type:*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO8SJmcXl6E


----------



## Dirtie (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(2cb2ct7 @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Secondly, the Bible is not literal truth. If you think that you are a moron. FACT.


That's a very generalised statement to make (and an arrogant one but I won't worry about that) - can you be more specific? The vast majority of experts (religious and non-religious) believe the Bible has at least some historical authenticity - or were you getting at something else?


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(2cb2ct7 @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, the Bible is not literal truth. If you think that you are a moron. FACT.
> ...



He probably means that the Bible has been translated and mistranslated so many times over the years that many of the true meanings and events have been turned into glorified fairytales. The current versions that most people are aware of today are essentially the products of hundreds of years of the telephone game.

Jill to Jim: I'm going to the mall.

Jim to Hailey: Jill's going to the mall to buy a present.

Hailey to Winston: Jill's going to the mall to buy you a present.

Winston to Freddy: Jill's going to get me a great gift!

Freddy to Lisa: Winston is getting a car!

Lisa to Jill: Winston's getting a Viper!


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> He probably means that the Bible has been translated and mistranslated so many times over the years that many of the true meanings and events have been turned into glorified fairytales. The current versions that most people are aware of today are essentially the products of hundreds of years of the telephone game.



Well most of the original documents still remains. Dead Sea Scrolls, etc


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > He probably means that the Bible has been translated and mistranslated so many times over the years that many of the true meanings and events have been turned into glorified fairytales. The current versions that most people are aware of today are essentially the products of hundreds of years of the telephone game.
> ...



I didn't say that they no longer exist, just that the copies most people have access to are horribly mistranslated. Examples: The story of Moses parting the "red sea" is actually a story about them walking across the "reed sea" a weird little area of water that was hip deep (or something) and could be walked right across. And the story of the fallen Angel Lucifer is actually a mistranslation of a story about a fallen king.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> He probably means that the Bible has been translated and mistranslated so many times over the years that many of the true meanings and events have been turned into glorified fairytales.



Impossible! It's the word of God!


----------



## Dirtie (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> ...


This is a myth that has been perpetuated over and over, but even some of the most anti-biblical debatists would not bother touching on this point because they know it's (for the most part) a fruitless argument. Almost every book of the Bible as we know it was assembled from multiple independent manuscripts, and in the case of the New Testament, different languages. These manuscripts are verified for their authenticity, translated and retranslated constantly, differences (if any) determined (and if any are found the most common one across manuscripts is used), and then it's all collated into that big black book. It's not a 110% fool-proof process, but there are a lot of scholars/experts who put a lot of work into getting the Bible as accurate as possible. There are other historical documents widely accepted as fact that have nowhere near as many sources (sometimes there is only one) and many of these don't certainly don't go through such a labourious and painstaking process.


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> And the story of the fallen Angel Lucifer is actually a mistranslation of a story about a fallen king.



Wrong. Ur referrin to Isaiah and Ezekiel passages and its seems its referin to the kings. However, it is to the power behind the kings that this is actually addressed. 
The passage in Ezekiel it is given, "the anointed cherub." These statements could never apply to a human king but apply to Lucifer who is behind the human king.  Readin the passages makes it obvious the statements do not apply to a human.


----------



## Dirtie (Nov 23, 2007)

Oh and...


QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Religious nuts always try so hard, and fail even harder because they don't realize one simple thing.
> 
> You can insult atheists all you want. But you'll always be the idiots in that battle, because atheism can be destroyed with only ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.
> 
> Go on, now. Present your evidence, and God wins. OR, you can keep looking like a dumbass religious zealot.


Well ok, let's say a God provides concrete proof of his existance that can't be denied by anyone; hang on, what's our reason for existing again? What are we but mere puppets if we can't make choice - in this case the choice to believe in a God. From this you could even say (and many people do) that the human ability to make decisions (based on a mix of logic and _conscience_) is the very meaning of life itself.

If heaven exists and a God wants people to live there, does he want mindless followers who have no choice but to believe, or does he want people who have faith in him even in the face of scoffing and adversary?

Many people would say there is evidence of God in nature, human behaviour, etc. If it's there, it's certainly not definitive from a scientific point of view, but that's the whole point - people can make their own minds up based on their own observation and experiences.


----------



## azotyp (Nov 23, 2007)

Im a scepticall type, but theory that universe was self created with some big bang is full of crap (if universe was like made by big explosion, so what created that explosion, if in previous time there were nothing), that's why i believe in GOD.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> These manuscripts are verified for their authenticity, translated and retranslated constantly



That was my point. No translation is fully accurate. Even now they continue to update everything with the latest findings. More importantly translation and interpretation would differ from scholar to scholar. It's an ever-evolving series of findings. The problem is these findings aren't widely known. It's not as if every Christian is willing to upgrade their Bible annually to the latest "version". If anything I would imagine a process like that would lower the number of people who are unwavering in their belief.

Version 1 of what we know as the modern Bible: "This is the Bible! It is the word of God. EVERYTHING IS ACCURATE. IF YOU AY OTHERWISE YOU GO TO HELL"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Version 2: "This is version 2, the last one was a bit off, our bad. But THIS version is 100% accurate, to doubt it is to commit the ultimate sin!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Version 3: "Ooookay, turns out our last version was WAAAAAAAAAAAY off. But this one, this is the real deal." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Version 4: "Uhhh... um... new version guys. Guys? Where are you going! I swear this FINAL version it's accurate! I SWEAR ON THE HOLY BIBLE." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Version 5: "You know what? F%#& this. I've been a religious devotee for years, preaching the word of this so-called book of ULTIMATE TRUTH." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





My point is, all these different versions, all these different interpretations, most of the general religious population probably doesn't even know what the CURRENT "truth" is.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(azotyp @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Im a scepticall type, but theory that universe was self created with some big bang is full of crap (if universe was like made by big explosion, so what created that explosion, if in previous time there were nothing), that's why i believe in GOD.



Not to try and defame your beliefs, but the reverse could be true as well. If the universe can't create itself without a big bang, caused by something before that, and something before that, and so on... then the same could be true of a deity. If God can create himself, so to can the universe. The theory goes both ways. Anyone who disagrees with that isn't giving an unbiased opinion. I'm not saying I subscribe to either theory, but if one thing can create itself, so can the other.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> From this you could even say (and many people do) that the human ability to make decisions (based on a mix of logic and conscience) is the very meaning of life itself.



Who says we can make decisions? That's a rather rash statement there. Free will is something that is hard to proof.

edit: And why would that just be a human ability? If we do make decisions, we make them all the time, just not about our stance on religion but also about what we eat, which direction we walk in, when/where we pee etc. It would be an ability of other animals as well.


----------



## Dirtie (Nov 23, 2007)

Ace: If new differences in translation are made, 99.99% of the time it is of no consequence to overall meaning of the passage of text. Professional modern translations all convey the same thing, and even the first Bible translated was pretty damn accurate.



QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's why I threw conscience in there. Not to mention our cognitive abilities are many orders of magnitude above any other animal living on Earth. These are what make us unique.


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 23, 2007)

Free will is something God gave u. You have ur choices. The choice u make is ur free will. 

God knows the future of what u choose. Free will does not stop becoming free because God knows what will happen.

Predestined and all starts to happen when we try to bring logic to something beyond our comprehension.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Wait it is? So all our actions (and therefore the actions of every single piece of matter, since it all has influence and is influenced) are pre-destined no matter what our brain is deciding on logically?



Actually, that was not what I meant. I meant that it is possible that free will is a farce. Something that we think we have but do not possess. I do not say everything is predestined, I'm saying that it is possible that we, ourselves, have no influence on our own behaviour/thoughts. That does not limit possibilities however. 

Is it my free will that decides I'm not sure about whether some kind of God exists or not? Or is that simply a chemical reaction in my body that balances that way?


----------



## Westside (Nov 23, 2007)

@veho, Chaos theory is the theory that states that everything can be mathematically modeled.  It's actually pretty cool.  The thinkers of this theory says that although it is chaotic, it is possible to graph and find pattern in everything in life, like weather and such.  It is called chaotic dynamics because scientists wanted to find pattern in nature which has a rather un-graphable, or chaotic pattern.
In a way, I guess it is trying to prove that destiny real.  If everything can be graphed, than what happens next will be predicted, and therefore everything was meant to happen, like how one day (IF, that's a big if), theory is true and scientists can predict the future, they will find out things like: "Westside will jerk off at exactly 18:37:12 today".  It will come ture...  Freaky, I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but this theory was often made fun of by the science community.


----------



## Hitto (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Westside @ Nov 22 2007 said:


> Go on and live your pathetic and meaningless life.Â You are one pessimistic, unhappy, jerk.Â Religion is not all about believing that one entity that rules all, it's about guiding us in a righteous, ethical, and moral path.Â Although there are many who claims to be "religious" and sin at the same time, they do not represent the rest of us, and those I do not respect.Â However, you have no reason to look down on all religious people, as much as I do not look down on all atheists.Â On top of that, can atheists themselves provide a solid evidence that God is not real?Â Until aesthetics have complete evidence, what you said was completely useless.Â You stand on the same ground as us.Â I don not hate non-hypocritical atheists, and I look upon every human being in equal grounds no matter what background or religion they have, I am open minded.Â You are almost the same as the very people you are trying to insult.Â Believing in a religion does not make you a "dumbass".Â I hate those hypocritical atheistic bastards who thinks religious people are automatically idiots.Â The greatest minds in the history were religious.Â Einstein once said: "Atheists Miss the Wonder of the World".Â Although I do not completely agree with that comment, I've seen one too many pessimistic atheists.


Hey, keep the attitude in check. I don't have anything against people with imaginary friends in the sky. Except when they plant bombs in the name of jihad. Or unleash their full-force nerd rage. Learn to parse sentences, dude! I was talking about the religious NUTS, not against any honest people who fear god. Go ahead, read at least once that post of mine you quoted!
But honestly, among most religious people I know, religion is a dangerous gateway toward surrendering personal responsibility and personal freedom. Deists like Voltaire or Einstein have typically more open minds than people who hate pork, women, gays, blacks, "outsiders to the flock", and it is true that a lot of atheists have simplistic reasonings; But to call out atheism because they can't bring proof of something that doesn't exist? What the fuck is wrong with you? I don't go around asking people to prove Superman doesn't exist. That would make me look stupid! Last, why call me a pessimist? Please prove why not believing in god makes you pessimistic? Because I said the only way to get rid of atheists is to present one, solid, *proof* of god's existence? Look at that poor kid just three posts up who thinks everything he will do in life is due to predestination. Tell me if *that* isn't pessimistic!


----------



## Veho (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Westside @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> "Westside will jerk off at exactly 18:37:12 today".Â It will come ture...Â Freaky, I know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See? _See?_ Some things man was not meant to know!!!!


----------



## Sonicslasher (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > These manuscripts are verified for their authenticity, translated and retranslated constantly
> ...



lol, so true....


----------



## xcalibur (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> ...



i dont want to start anything here but thats not the case with the koran
its always kept in the same arabic it was made in
and wheneevr its translated the original is right next to it


----------



## SpitfireInferno (Nov 23, 2007)

I believe that there is a huge dick floating in space far far away.

You can't prove me wrong, therefore I'm not wrong.


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > These manuscripts are verified for their authenticity, translated and retranslated constantly
> ...



We've done about this in RS recently... (GCSE level). There are 3 main ways to interpret the Bible, each denomination uses one or more of these methods. I'm not Christian, but I find it interesting to study them...

*Literalists*
These people believe that what the Bible says it truth, 100% truth and must be followed to-the-letter if you want to call yourself a Christian.

*Fundamentalits*
These people believe that the Bible is the _inspired_ word of God. This is because in (the New Testament of) the Bible, God doesn't actually say anything. The people who wrote the Bible are just writing what they _think_ God would approve of etc. They believe that contradictions or inconsistency in the Bible are down to lack of knowledge on our part.

*Liberalists*
They believe that the Bible contains spiritual truths, but it was written by Man and Man makes mistakes. The general ideas in the Bible are true, but following it to-the-letter all the time is not always possible. We have to look at the teachings in the Bible and apply them to our current situation as we see fit.

I'm not an expert, just a curious student. I believe this to the truth, take it as you will...

- Sam


----------



## Dirtie (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> Is it my free will that decides I'm not sure about whether some kind of God exists or not? Or is that simply a chemical reaction in my body that balances that way?Â


Why can't it be both? I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive (I think that's the right term). If there is a God who is the creator of nature itself, who says he didn't program it in to the way our very bodies work?

I don't even know if I believe this myself, but it's a possibility.


----------



## Westside (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Westside @ Nov 22 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Go on and live your pathetic and meaningless life.Â You are one pessimistic, unhappy, jerk.Â Religion is not all about believing that one entity that rules all, it's about guiding us in a righteous, ethical, and moral path.Â Although there are many who claims to be "religious" and sin at the same time, they do not represent the rest of us, and those I do not respect.Â However, you have no reason to look down on all religious people, as much as I do not look down on all atheists.Â On top of that, can atheists themselves provide a solid evidence that God is not real?Â Until aesthetics have complete evidence, what you said was completely useless.Â You stand on the same ground as us.Â I don not hate non-hypocritical atheists, and I look upon every human being in equal grounds no matter what background or religion they have, I am open minded.Â You are almost the same as the very people you are trying to insult.Â Believing in a religion does not make you a "dumbass".Â I hate those hypocritical atheistic bastards who thinks religious people are automatically idiots.Â The greatest minds in the history were religious.Â Einstein once said: "Atheists Miss the Wonder of the World".Â Although I do not completely agree with that comment, I've seen one too many pessimistic atheists.
> ...



Superman is a horrible example.  I do not believe that guy is necessarily a white dude with beard that lives on clouds.  The reason is the philosophical proof that there is always a greater being.  However, that greatness has to be finite, and the greatest is the one that we refer to as god.  I don't see any reason why that is impossible.  The other side of the god, "the creator" , I believe is more of a factor, an influential factor that is magnificent enough to be god.

Oh, and English is my fourth language, I'm not a linguistic genius.  I'm sorry if I had confused you with my horrible misunderstandings and bad grammar.


----------



## tongyan (Nov 24, 2007)

This is one of my first posts in the GBATemp forums.. but here goes.

As a Christian i trust the Bible because:
1. its unique in its continuity
2. It has the most existing manuscripts compared to all other historical documents
(There are other reasons, but i will broaden only on these 2...)

1. The Bible was written by more than 40 different authors in a course of more than 1000 years... AND it flows and doesnt contradict with each other.  In addition, all the 40+ authors all came from different backgrounds, classes, and walks of life. The Bible was also written in 3 different languages (Old Testament in Hebrew and Armaic and New Testament in Greek), in three different continents (Asia, Europe, and Africa), and in many different forms of writing (such as poetry, history, biography, autobiography, prophesy, etc...)  I don't see how that wouldnt prove that man could come up with it by himself, it has to be influenced by God.

2.  The New Testament has more than 24,000 manuscripts with the earliest that dates only 25 years after the original text was written.  Second place is the _Iliad_ by Homer and that only has 643 surviving manuscripts.  It was written about 900BC and the earliest copy available 400BC around a 500 year difference.  The average gap between the earliest available copy and the time written is around 1000 years (For example: The earliest substantial manuscript for the Seven Plays of Sophocles was written more than 1,400 years after his death).

Also, the NT contains ~20,000 lines, of which 40 lines are in question (0.5%), while The Iliad has ~15,600 lines, of which 764 lines are in question (5%).  Of those .5% only 1/8 are anything more than stylistic differences or misspellings--they involve nothing more than missing letter in a word, misspellings, or reversal of 2 words.  Only about 50 have real significance; not one essential point of Christian doctrine rests on those disputed readings.  If one could trust that the Iliad is reliable enough to tell of that story, why couldn't one trust the Bible?

As for the Old Testament, like someone said before, the Dead Sea Scrolls not only proved that the text was accurate (It was identical to the Modern Hebrew Bible in over 95% of the text.  The 5% mainly consisted of slips of the pen or variations in spelling), it also pushed the earliest manuscript back to around 100 BC.  

Although It has been edited and retranslated several times, it doesnt change any of the fundamental beliefs that christians believe.  Plus, all the different translations (NIV, ESV) are there to make it easier for different kinds of people to understand.

As for evolution, I cant deny it isn't there because animals and even people have to adapt to survive.  However, i do not think that it can be an explanation of how all the species came to be.  In a sense, if evolution is true, it means that every time you use antibacterial sanitizer, you are killing your "distant cousins"-- the bacteria.  Time + Met conditions + Bacteria doesnt = Humans...  Believing in creationism doesn't mean that God specifically made every single animal and thing both existing and extinct all in one go with a zap of his magic wand...  I think it might have been like.. the root of each different species (like 1 dog/wolf like animal that adapted to its different place after it was scattered and became different dog animals like foxes, wolves, etc...) was created and they changed into the different kinds and breeds that we see today, and not one single root for every living thing.  The Cambrian explosion proves this.

I can go on and on.. but this is getting sorta long... so yeaaa


----------



## zeppo (Nov 24, 2007)

you know, just because a whole lot of people believe in the same crap doesn't make it any more true. Besides, you didn't even give any reasoning to back up the idea that people were created purely through evolution. all you said was that time+met conditions+bacteria doesn't equal humans. How are you planning to prove this statement?


----------



## tongyan (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(zeppo @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> you know, just because a whole lot of people believe in the same crap doesn't make it any more true. Besides, you didn't even give any reasoning to back up the idea that people were created purely through evolution. all you said was that time+met conditions+bacteria doesn't equal humans. How are you planning to prove this statement?



Darwin stated that all species came from 1 common ancestor, and because bacteria were the earliest form of life, wouldn't that mean that humans came from bacteria? It has to have been something more than a whole mess of random mutations that occurred in such a simple life form to make a complex human being.  If you don't want to believe its up to you, but in the end, its cuz my Bible tells me so.


----------



## MrKuenning (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > These manuscripts are verified for their authenticity, translated and retranslated constantly
> ...




Wow dude, dont know were you think you got your "Facts" but you could hardly be further from the truth.

For starters you are right about one thing, there are religions that do exactly what you wrote.  There are religions (Wont name any) made in the past few centuries that throw out the old documents and rewrite them.

However the Bible is the most historicly accurate document excisisting.  Even atheist scolors admit it being historicly accurate to a the nth degree.  We have over 26,000 original manuscripts written in dozens of languages and when compared to each other they match learnly word for word. 

Pilates, and Sacretes, and other anchient scolors that we all believe, have maybe 5-19 original manuscripts.

The bible has been proven over and over to be the most accurate document.  Weather you believe in God, or that Jesus is who he said he is.  Thats up to you.  But the bible isnt some mosh of information that is revised over and over.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> It has to have been something more than a whole mess of random mutations that occurred in such a simple life form to make a complex human being.



Why? It might *seem* unlikely that random mutations resulted in human beings, but it does not have to be. It only is when you view humans as the only possible end result. We like to think of ourselves as oh so important. But maybe if the mutations had not resulted into us, they had resulted in smart spiders, smart frogs, or not a smart anything. We like to view ourselves as the best and end station of evolution. I'd say we should be careful in that. We're not any better than the other creatures on this world. Just different.

Edit: and yes, the bible is pretty accurate historically, however, the word historically means..that it's only historically so. All the..supernatural features, all the details..are disputed. The big lines aren't, but that's not what the bible is about. It's about the force of God behind it. It's about the details that make the stories.


----------



## MrKuenning (Nov 24, 2007)

How can you say we arnt any better than the other creatures of this world?    Oh sure the monkey can use a stick as a "tool" and the spider can make a web.  Comon, these things arent inventions, written language electronics.  We are not the same as animals at all..  Its reducilus to think that we just chanced out on being able to invent.


----------



## Hitto (Nov 24, 2007)

bible version one : God loves the jews, hates everyone else, forbids them to eat pork, promises them a country. OH AND MOST IMPORTANT god is perfect, can't make mistakes.
bible version two : God loves the christians, recants about that pork thing, recants about the promised land and settles for a sucky "it's in your mind" version of israel. OH AND MOST IMPORTANT god is perfect, can't make mistakes.
bible version three : God loves the muslims, hates everyone else, ESPECIALLY jews and christians, promises the muslims a country and delivers, goes back to hating pork, and decides that the last two versions are false. OH AND MOST IMPORTANT god is perfect, can't make mistakes. Except admitting that the last two versions were a big mistake...

Yeah, the bible sure is an accurate book.
You know what bothers me the most? If any of you were born a few thousand kilometers away from your birthplace, your "truth" would be different by a few orders of magnitude.


----------



## MrKuenning (Nov 24, 2007)

Wow, weather you agree with the bible or not, you cant throw muslem and christianity into one pot.  The are entirely diffrent religions, and they contridict each other. God doesnt.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(MrKuenning @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> Its reducilus to think that we just chanced out on being able to invent.
> 
> 
> Why? Our brains are pretty much a continuation of the brains you find in animals.
> ...



Why not? They have a common origin.


----------



## MrKuenning (Nov 24, 2007)

Probably cause the guy who invented them had somthing right.


----------



## enarky (Nov 24, 2007)

Yuck. Bible accurate? Come on! If you _believe_ in it, that is. Believe in what you want, but don't bother me with your beliefs. I'd recommend reading a _real_ history book instead.

EDIT: and I recommend closing this topic, as religious discussion tends to lead to nothing.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)

We lucked out on our brains. I'm not saying that a monkey is as smart as a human. I'm saying that the fact we have a bigger brain does not make us the best. I'm sure a monkey can't invent a car but they also don't rage wars, they also don't destroy that planet. For a 'chosen creature' we break a lot of stuff. And if you look at animal brains you can find the same parts in our brains. Our brains are animal brains, only a few things have been added. To think of ourselves as the chosen people and the end of the line..is just plain narcistic.


----------



## cubin' (Nov 24, 2007)

So about the bible being extremely accurate. Does that mean Noahs Arc and the whole adam + eve thing was real?


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(enarky @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> and I recommend closing this topic, as religious discussion tends to lead to nothing.



I've been keeping an eye on it. So have other staff members. It's actually been fairly civil. And by having it in the testing area people (such as I 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) are free to do as many random things in this topic as we like. At the risk of jinxing it, I'd actually like to say while we may not all share the same beliefs, the fact that we can discuss the topic openly (in the testing area no less) without some sort of a holy war of biblical proportions breaking out is nothing short of a miracle. Heh, religious puns.


----------



## azotyp (Nov 24, 2007)

If we would came from monkeys, there would be no purpose to live, because we would have no souls, so we couldnt go th hell, so we could kill anyone and dont feel bad about it (animals do that, if we are animals what keeps us from killing someone).
(I think it is concious, but if someone think that we have no souls, that man could kill anybody, because that would not be sin).


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> so we could kill anyone and dont feel bad about it
> 
> I'm not religious, I'd still feel bad if I would kill someone. We're more than pavlov dogs you know.
> 
> ...



No they don't. A lot of animals don't kill their own kind for no reason. Unlike humans. If you think religion STOPS people from killing, wake up, smell the coffee.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> If you religion STOPS people from killing, wake up, smell the coffee.


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)




----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:


>








  Oh Jesus! . . .


----------



## Veho (Nov 24, 2007)

Coffee.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)




----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)




----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)




----------



## MrKuenning (Nov 24, 2007)

Its slightly humours how the anti religous people really have no logic or backing to any of their arguments, they are just putting personal feelings and scarcasim mixed with crazy ilogical ideas, and tossing them up in the air.    When they are shot down they go, ah oh well who cares anyway.


I guess thats the truth isnt it.  If you have no faith.  You have no hope.  Nothing to look foward to.  So who cares.   You can say what you want, and it doesnt matter if it makes since.  When you die in your mind you compleatly dissapear.


----------



## Dack (Nov 24, 2007)

For a good bit of history of the different religions (and an eye-opener as to the sheer number of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) its worth a visit to http://www.godulike.co.uk/

Suffice to say I think "The God Delusion" is worth a read


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)




----------



## Veho (Nov 24, 2007)

Let's distinguish "faith" and "belief system" from "religion". Faith is good. _Religion_ boils down to:


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> If you have no faith. You have no hope. Nothing to look foward to. So who cares.



I care. I hope to make a difference, however small, in this world. I hope people will be more accepting of each other even if they have a religious dispute. I hope we will be more careful with both this world, the other animals living on this world and each others lives. I look forward to having children, to continue sharing my life with the ones I love, to continue trying to make the ones I love happy. I don't need religion for any of that. If I die, I die. I'll see what happens then. For me what happens to me after I die, has nothing to do with the way I stand in this world. 

I care. Just not about god(s). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









Jesuskitty loves everyone.


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 24, 2007)

@Ace Gunman

Bringin humour into an otherwise serious discussion eh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Some humour is needed here..


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> @Ace Gunman
> 
> Bringin humour into an otherwise serious discussion eh
> 
> ...



Heh, yep. Sure I have opinions like anyone, but I'm trying to keep the tension light and breezy.


----------



## Hitto (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(MrKuenning @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> Its slightly humours how the anti religous people really have no logic or backing to any of their arguments, they are just putting personal feelings and scarcasim mixed with crazy ilogical ideas, and tossing them up in the air.Â Â When they are shot down they go, ah oh well who cares anyway.
> 
> 
> I guess thats the truth isnt it.Â If you have no faith.Â You have no hope.Â Nothing to look foward to.Â So who cares.Â  You can say what you want, and it doesnt matter if it makes since.Â When you die in your mind you compleatly dissapear.


It's slightly humorous how religious zealots really can't read a whole thread, or even proof-read their own posts, they are just putting flamebait posts and incorrectly-spelled words along with the open admittance of a psychological disease (imaginary friends in the skyyyy...)
And when they are shot down they go, ah, oh, well, your life sucks, you have no hope, nothing to look forward to.




God gave you a brain. Start using it!


----------



## FrEEz902 (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(veho @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> THERE IS NO BAND!
> 
> 
> Or spoon.
> ...



Gwahaha true XD

(yes i'm new my first post)

I could rant about religion and stuff, but the thing is, aethists don't want to believe that god exists. I'm not gonna try to prove to someone who doesn't want to believe. It's useless.

Edit: Also i can't really rant about science and disprove it either, since i'm only 15, therefore my knowledge is limited (e.g. i  have never heard of the chaos theory, but since you mentioned butterflies, i'm guessing it's the butterfly effect? And all i know about that is that a butterfly fluttering it's wings could somehow cause a hurricane on the otherside of the world... or something like that. I'm too lazy to go wikipedia it, i just wanna read the rest of this thread, then go play DotA


----------



## FrEEz902 (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Oh and...
> 
> 
> QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> ...



The bing bang has many theories, but none can be proven, and i doubt they will ever be proven. *agrees with azotyp*


----------



## FrEEz902 (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Dirtie @ Nov 23 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > These manuscripts are verified for their authenticity, translated and retranslated constantly
> ...



exactly what i just said


----------



## FrEEz902 (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Free will is something God gave u. You have ur choices. The choice u make is ur free will.
> 
> God knows the future of what u choose. Free will does not stop becoming free because God knows what will happen.
> 
> Predestined and all starts to happen when we try to bring logic to something beyond our comprehension.




Well i believe that every choice you make, and every thing that happens has already been decided, yet, quote the matrix lol 'you just have to realise it'. Basically if someone found a way to look at their 'fate' i.e. it says that tomorrow he'll eat a cheese sandwich at 4:23 PM for example. Then he decides to deny his fate and *NOT* eat that sandwich. It would be 'written' that his fate was that he found out his fate about the cheese sandwich therefore did not eat it. So you *DO* have free will, but whatever choice you make, it has already been made, depending on what you choose (yes i know wtf).


----------



## Dack (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(FrEEz902 @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> I'm a muslim (don't flame me or call me a terrorist etc., even though i don't know if you do that here), so we have the 'Quran'. That only has one 'version', and has never been edited, so i have no idea wtf you're talking about. I *think* they found an ancient quran before, not sure though, i don't look into these things too much.



I think you'll find it was 'standardised' from various versions that were floating around 12 or so years after the death of the prophet by Kalipha Uthman.

Now about that never edited claim


----------



## FrEEz902 (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> bible version one : God loves the jews, hates everyone else, forbids them to eat pork, promises them a country. OH AND MOST IMPORTANT god is perfect, can't make mistakes.
> bible version two : God loves the christians, recants about that pork thing, recants about the promised land and settles for a sucky "it's in your mind" version of israel. OH AND MOST IMPORTANT god is perfect, can't make mistakes.
> bible version three : God loves the muslims, hates everyone else, ESPECIALLY jews and christians, promises the muslims a country and delivers, goes back to hating pork, and decides that the last two versions are false. OH AND MOST IMPORTANT god is perfect, can't make mistakes. Except admitting that the last two versions were a big mistake...
> 
> ...




They're not all 'bibles' >_>, they're different books for different religions gathered in different ways. It is possible that some are true some aren't. It's possible that none are true. They're different, they're not all 'the bible' (e.g. the muslim book is called the quran, and has nothing to do with the bible)


----------



## FrEEz902 (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> QUOTE(MrKuenning @ Nov 24 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Its slightly humours how the anti religous people really have no logic or backing to any of their arguments, they are just putting personal feelings and scarcasim mixed with crazy ilogical ideas, and tossing them up in the air.Â Â When they are shot down they go, ah oh well who cares anyway.
> ...



I suggest you stop mocking people for beleiving in god, or you'll probably get flamed  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Edit: I'm not 'threatening' you or anything, just giving you a heads up.


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> Edit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As do wild tigers and tabby cats. Here kitty kitty...

- Sam


----------



## Hitto (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(sinkhead @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit:
> ...



Actually, it's not a secret that the christian old testament is an evolution of the torah, and that the quran's beginning shares everything with the torah save for a few differences is names (Mosche->Moussa, for example). They each worship the same god with minor differences aside. I don't know why this is even argued about. This is not my opinion, it is a fact!

PS : I wish people posted with a bit of correct grammar, but I seriously think we should encourage people to read correctly. I dunno, a "READ SLOWLY" rule?


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> QUOTE(sinkhead @ Nov 24 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(dakeyras @ Nov 24 2007 said:
> ...


Yes, I understand that. The origins of tigers and cats are the same, but they are now completely different in both appearance and behaviour...

- Sam


----------



## xcalibur (Nov 24, 2007)

i just had a nasty experience with an antireligious nut...
i hate these people, they try to bully you out their beliefs.
I just dont get that, if you dont believe in god, why is everyone who does a moron?

I find atheism just a big word.. How can someone just believe that their life is their own and that their existence is just a fluke?
I do respect their right to do whatever the hell they want yet they keep trying to bully me out of my own religion(not all atheist btw)

I get that whenever someone says "join our religion" it sounds more like "jooooiiiiin uuuuusss or burn forever in the fires of hell" but you have to know that this is how people live their lives.
just like emos and just like chavs and any other stereotype, ITS THEIR LIFE and all you can do is sigh and ignore because no matter how hard you try, anyone with values isnt going to leave them as easily as that, so please stop with the retarded spam about how you say that theres a giant dick floating in space and noone can prove you wrong so youre right(just an example). People pray for the comfort that there is someone watching out for them and protecting them where no one else can.
little kids believe in santa claus just for the joy of the holiday and making it that much more special. Is it our job to go to them and tell them theyre retarded and that santa claus isnt real?
No. we let them figure it out for themselves.
so let religious people find out for themselves too then...
and as a muslim i can say that even if i find out that there is no afterlife or something like that, i wont have any regrets because i know i lived a good life and so far i wouldnt change anything.
i wouldnt drink, i wouldnt smoke, and i sure as hell wouldnt become as cynic as you are(anti religious nut).

P.S.: ace gunman, your attempts at putting this topic back off topic are great


----------



## Azimuth (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> i just had a nasty experience with an antireligious nut...
> i hate these people, they try to bully you out their beliefs.
> I just dont get that, if you dont believe in god, why is everyone who does a moron?
> There seems to be 2 kind of people in this thread, loud mouthed atheists and ignorant religious people. Quite sad that most people here can't argue on things without reducing themselves to the intellect of a 4 year old but thats what fundamentalism is I guess.
> ...


I assume your talking about the criticism of religion, people have every right to talk about anything they may want to. If you find it offensive, don't listen, just like how I change the channel every time fox news is on. If your faith is weak enough to be rattled by people trying to "bully you" then you must have already been doubtful of your own beliefs. The opposite is also true, religious people trying to convert atheists, it happens more frequently but of course that is excused because everyone knows they are just trying to save us


----------



## hollabackitsobi (Nov 24, 2007)

I wish we weren't on a forum and just all talking so I could express the gigantic volume of thoughts I have on this subject. But, let me condense it into as succinct a summary as a I can:

The universe is an incredible place, and the complexities of it and of those of life on earth just seem to incredible to have just happened by chance. Take for example, the properties of water. If almost everything couldn't dissolve in it (hence it's name the universal solvent) life could not exist. 

BUT then again, I could have said life AS WE KNOW IT could not exist. Perhaps some other form of life would have arisen? BUT, then why didn't it? We could be coexisting, or there could be proof that it existed once before but died out.

Another reason I sort of believe in the idea of a god but not in any religion is because looking at religion, you see the stupidity of humanity at it's worst. Death, destruction, hatred, all caused by peoples' radical beliefs about the afterlife and how life was created. Why so many religions preach peace and righteousness but practive violence, deception, lying, pedophelia (Catholic priests stun me...), etc. is just over my head. 

I think the idea of GOD is a good one. Something you believe in (it has been proven time and time again that belief that SOMETHING is looking after you, no matter how unfounded that belief may be, makes you a MUCH HAPPIER, SATISFIED person, and extends LIFE). I don't really believe in anything, though. 

Ok, damn. I'm just going to stop now, because I doubt any of this crap I just said makes any sense, as I'm just letting the ideas flow out of my head. This issue is one that I'm definitely not sure about, and I'm sure that's the case for 99.9% of humanity, if not EVERYONE.


----------



## MaHe (Nov 24, 2007)

Hmmm, I'm glad to be agnostic. No need to worry myself with all that stuff (yes, it sounds ignorant, but it's true).


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 24, 2007)

Islam, Christianity and Hinduism are similar. That much is true


----------



## Jiggah (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(xcalibur798 @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> i just had a nasty experience with an antireligious nut...
> i hate these people, they try to bully you out their beliefs.
> I just dont get that, if you dont believe in god, why is everyone who does a moron?
> 
> ...



I find religion a big hoax.  Something to keep people in line, also something that was used in the past to get people through the day.  However, like children, we should grow out of that.  (Do you still believe in Santa Claus?)  In order to progress, we should get out of the stupid religious dogmatism.  Prime example is the United States, where 50% of the population claims to believe in God and they take it literally.  Where the United States use to be one of the greatest nation in terms of schooling i.e. mathematics and science, we are now last.  It's not surprising when religious nut cases want to set up government programs to fund their religion, even if it's against the law, or try to put religion into science where it doesn't belong.

Also, it's interesting how this topic even started.  With the posting of that image.  If someone had posted say Jews burning in a concentration camp and made fun of it, I'd bet it would have been closed down ASAP because people find it offense.  Basically, it's okay to offend people who don't believe in a God, but not the other way around.

BTW, as an atheists I don't go around trying to convert people out of religion, but I do defend myself against it or when atheism gets a bad call, that's really the only time I even talk about atheism.


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 24, 2007)

STORY

A skeptic is about to enter the forest to conduct a scientific study of great importance. Just as he begins his hike, he is met by a six-year-old boy who frantically warns, "Mister! Don't go into those woods on account of there's a monster that lives there and he'll eat you for lunch!"

The skeptic condescendingly pats the boy's head and smugly explains that there are no such things as monsters, and then he enters the woods and promptly gets eaten by a bear.

ANALYSIS

Moral of the joke: The skeptic is smart enough to know that there are no such things as monsters but dumb enough not to take heed. Like the boy, Christians are attempting to describe that which they can't fully comprehend.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Interested ppl can read this debate
The 2002 Great Debate


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> Islam, Christianity and Hinduism are similar. That much is trueÂ


In what ways. I would have included Judaism instead of Hinduism, because those three religions only have one god and share origins...
Also, Hinduism dates back to before Christianity was around.

- Sam


----------



## TGBoy (Nov 24, 2007)

QUOTE(sinkhead @ Nov 25 2007 said:


> In what ways. I would have included Judaism instead of Hinduism, because those three religions only have one god and share origins...
> Also, Hinduism dates back to before Christianity was around.
> 
> - Sam



The highest written authorities in Hinduism are the Vedas of which there are four chief ones: Rig-Veda, Sama-Veda, Atharva-Veda, and Yajur-Veda.
These books prophezise the birth and death of Christ.

*Virgin Birth of Christ* 
Atharnava Veda 13-3-4 
Koumaro loko ajanishta' putrah nwarvhethan wai uttaravoth 

[Translation: A son will be born to a virgin in this world, take ye hold that (son) is what is superior (than everyone).] 

Rig Veda 355-1 
[no transcription given] . . . ' born in a cattle shed' 

Mahapurana Book 3. Chapter in 34 verses [?] 
Ko bhavaanithi tham praaha Sobhovaachamudaanwitha: 
Eshaputhram cha maam idhi Kumaareegarbha samahavam Aham easa Maseeha nama Bhavishya 

[Translation: (King Saka asked ) " May I know who you are ?" That man replied happily "I am the son of God born to a virgin. My name is Easa maseeha"]

The relevant Bible verses:
Luke 2:11-12 
"Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger." 

Isaiah 17:14 
Therefore the Lord himself will give you [plural] a sign: The virgin [*] will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. 

Matthew 1:23 
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

*Christ's Sacrifice* 
The sacrificial victim is to be crowned with a crown made of thorny vines (Rig Veda X:90:15, and Bruhadaranyakopanishad III:9:28)
His hands and legs are to be bound to a yoopa causing bloodshed (Ithareya Brahmanam 2 : 6)
None of His bones must be broken (Yajurveda XXXI)
Before death he should be given a drink of somarasa (Ithareya Brahmanam)
The very next verse [of item 1] (Rig Veda X:90:16) goes like this: Thamevam Vidwanamrutha iha bhavathy Nanya pandha ayanaya vidya 
[Translation: "Those who meditate and attain this man, believe in heart and chant with their lips, get liberated in this world itself and there is no other way of salvation."] 

The corleating scripture passage:

Romans 10:8-10 
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," [Deut. 30:14] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Apologize for making it this long. Since u asked ...


----------



## dakeyras (Nov 25, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> here seems to be 2 kind of people in this thread, loud mouthed atheists and ignorant religious people.
> 
> Then I doubt you've read through the entire thread. There are enough people who have stayed reasonable. Speaking your mind does not make you loudmouthed or ignorant.
> 
> QUOTEIf someone had posted say Jews burning in a concentration camp and made fun of it, I'd bet it would have been closed down ASAP because people find it offense. Basically, it's okay to offend people who don't believe in a God, but not the other way around.



You're not comparing the genocide of the second world war to a silly picture with a joke about atheism right? Seriously, it's alright to make fun out of people's religions or their lack off. If it had been a joke about a christian instead I doubt this topic would've been deleted.


----------



## Opium (Nov 25, 2007)

QUOTE(xcalibur798 @ Nov 25 2007 said:


> How can someone just believe that their life is their own and that their existence is just a fluke?



Oh, but what a wonderful fluke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I don't care what people believe as long as they don't try to force it on to me. Most people don't, but there are some big religious nuts out there. I may disagree with all organized religion, but if it works for you, go for it. Just don't kill any people along the way because of it.

My life has meaning and purpose without a need for religion to justify my existence. I understand religion gives people strength in life which is a wonderful thing. But I don't need it nor believe in it.


----------



## Ace Gunman (Nov 25, 2007)

QUOTE(Opium @ Nov 25 2007 said:


> QUOTE(xcalibur798 @ Nov 25 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > How can someone just believe that their life is their own and that their existence is just a fluke?
> ...



I feel the same way as Opium on this one. I'm not really the religious sort, but I find nothing wrong with it. It's when someone forces it on me that I dislike. For example there was a member of this forum, we talked on MSN frequently, nice guy. But the topic of religion would somehow come up almost every time we spoke, and each time he'd try to convert me to his way of thinking. I didn't care if he didn't agree with my views, I just wanted him to accept that I had them. Either way, because of that he and I grew apart, and now we rarely, if ever talk. Nice guy too, just a shame some people can't accept that other people have different views.


----------



## 111111111 (Nov 29, 2007)

QUOTE(2cb2ct7 @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> You are the definition of "retard".
> Ph I'm sorry, did I upset you?  poor diddums.  never mind eh.
> 
> QUOTENow just jump in your deity-driven time machine and head back to the cromagnon dwelling you came from.


Can you not read?  are you so stupid that you missed the very first thing that I said - your lot are as idiotic as the religios nuts.  I have no deity driven anything.

go back to worshiping your text book, you may find a life at the end of it.


----------



## 111111111 (Nov 29, 2007)

QUOTE(Bamboo @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Until we recognize that we are linked to them intimately (if it be evolution or a common creator) and stop thinking of them as objects that we own but individuals like us.
> 
> Probably the most sensible thing I've ever read on gbatemp - you make me smile, have a cookie..  =]
> 
> ...


And you.  :>  Compassion on a technology webforum, I'm amazed.  I also agree with pretty much everything you say in that post (well, except for any more children.  I've enough thanks =] ) - you've summed up how I feel without me having to type anything out - thanks.


----------



## zeppo (Nov 29, 2007)

Some people just spend too much of their time on earth obsessing about what happens after you die instead of focusing on what happens before. I mean, you won't know for sure what happens when you die until you die (assuming something happens at all). No matter what, it's always a possibility that nothing happens other than you sitting in your grave rotting. Due to this chance, people should just focus on the present and the near future instead of spending too much time dwelling on the afterlife.


----------



## captain^k (Nov 29, 2007)

Well said zeppo!

I whole-heartedly agree


----------



## zeppo (Nov 29, 2007)

QUOTE(captain^k @ Nov 28 2007 said:


> Well said zeppo!
> 
> I whole-heartedly agree



yay!


----------



## Sinkhead (Nov 29, 2007)

QUOTE(TGBoy @ Nov 24 2007 said:


> QUOTE(sinkhead @ Nov 25 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > In what ways. I would have included Judaism instead of Hinduism, because those three religions only have one god and share origins...
> ...


No problem. I didn't know about any of that, so thanks  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




- Sam


----------

