# Apparently paddling kids is an okay school punishment in Georgia



## Chary (Sep 9, 2018)

Make sure to check your calendars, because yes, it is actually not 1853, and yes, people still think physical punishment is an okay method to "train" kids. A school in Georgia is showing that the south still has some backwards mindsets even in the modern day, as they've brought back corporal punishment for misbehaving kids.



> “In this school, we take discipline very seriously,” school Superintendent Jody Boulineau told WRDW. “There was a time where corporal punishment was kind of the norm in school and you didn't have the problems that you have.”



The superintendent of this hot mess school dares to claim that "kids these days" are causing more problems than ever, and a good ol' smack ought to fix things back to normal, and save the children's futures. Totally.

Permission slips were given to kids to bring home to their parents, so that their parents could sign off on the school's draconian policy. Oh, but don't worry, the school "promises" that troubled kids will only be hit a maximum of three times! Paddlings will occur to kids who've caused a problem on three occasions. Once those three strikes are up, the child is brought into a closed room, where they're smacked three times on the backside.



> “A student will be taken into an office behind closed doors,” the form states, WRDW reported. “The student will place their hands on their knees or piece of furniture and will be struck on the buttocks with a paddle.



Of course, if you're a parent and don't wish for some old man to be slapping your kid on the butt with a wood stick, you can deny this form of punishment, and your kid will obtain 5 days of suspension as alternative punishment. Where then they'll be up for truancy due to unexcused abscences.

 Source


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## Coto (Sep 9, 2018)

"kids these days" subdued to technology does not justify violence. There are other ways:

teach them, "this is how it's done". Retry a few times. People is different.

There are edge cases where the violence is within a circle. That's where education helps to stop the violence, providing tools for the circle to stop (and people that actually cares staying out of that circle). If such people continue to be violent, that violence will eat him/her alive. But that won't be our problem anymore. So you give people choice and tools.


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

THIS THING only happens in 2 places: the 1st is North korea then.... Murica


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## ChaosEternal (Sep 9, 2018)

It's not really being brought back; it never stopped to begin with. Corporal punishment is still popular among a decent portion of the population, especially the black community. Not sure where you're getting the truancy bit from though. As far as I know, truancy only applies when you are voluntarily skipping school. If you're suspended, then you aren't allowed to attend classes by the school. Punishing you for that would just be silly.


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## mrdude (Sep 9, 2018)

Some kids need a slap, kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions, otherwise when they grow up they will think they can do anything - until someone punches them in the face and they are totally shocked.

Bloody snowflake generation....bah...complain about everything.


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## Chary (Sep 9, 2018)

ChaosEternal said:


> If you're suspended, then you aren't allowed to attend classes by the school


Many school districts count out of school suspensions as unexcused abscences on your record. Get only a handful more of those, or even be late a few times on top of that existing 5 days, and a strict district would easily pursue a truancy case. I know, because it happened to me. Be late to class six times through the school year alongside that, or two days without a doctor's note to cover it, and you'll hit 7 days unexcused (texas' cap) where you're subject to a truancy officer giving you and your parents an evaluation. It ranges in a lot of states, from 3-10 days.



ChaosEternal said:


> It's not really being brought back;


This particular school is bringing it back, though, which sets an unnerving precedent.


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## Kingy (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> Some kids need a slap, kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions, otherwise when they grow up they will think they can do anything - until someone punches them in the face and they are totally shocked.
> 
> Bloody snowflake generation....bah...complain about everything.


"Damn this generation who don't want to beat their kids but instead develop a decent relationship with them, and keep their kids emotionally and mentally stable!"


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## ChaosEternal (Sep 9, 2018)

Chary said:


> Many school districts count out of school suspensions as unexcused abscences on your record. Get only a handful more of those, or even be late a few times on top of that existing 5 days, and a strict district would easily pursue a truancy case. I know, because it happened to me. Be late to class six times through the school year alongside that, or two days without a doctor's note to cover it, and you'll hit 7 days unexcused (texas' cap) where you're subject to a truancy officer giving you and your parents an evaluation. It ranges in a lot of states, from 3-10 days.


Huh, good to know. I guess my school district wasn't like that. I think one year I had over a dozen unexcused absences and I didn't get in any trouble at all. Or perhaps they were excused with a note from my parents, I can't quite recall. Anyway, seems like a silly system to have.


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## Lucifer666 (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> Some kids need a slap, kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions, otherwise when they grow up they will think they can do anything - until someone punches them in the face and they are totally shocked.
> 
> Bloody snowflake generation....bah...complain about everything.



How about raising them to be disciplined enough to listen out for a lesson in a calm discussion, without having to beat them to get their attention? When you learn something because of fear of consequences as opposed to really understanding why, you end up with an emotionally stunted child. Please don't be a parent until you get that.


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## Chary (Sep 9, 2018)

ChaosEternal said:


> Huh, good to know. I guess my school district wasn't like that. I think one year I had nearly two dozen unexcused absences and I didn't get in any trouble at all. Seems like a silly system to have.


Yeah. I had it happen three times, actually. One time, I had the school board threaten to expel me in elementary school for attending my grandfather's funeral and missing 7 days. Another time I received a suspension, and then was late a few times, (7 days) and had a truancy officer applied to me in middle school. In high school, they just quietly kicked me out when I had 5 unexcused abscences at the end of the school year. It doesn't take much if you have a strict school or district, and you get suspended, it's going to start a snowball into truancy case. Having such a policy makes it almost appealing to take the physical punishment instead, which is especially disgusting. 



mrdude said:


> Some kids need a slap, kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions, otherwise when they grow up they will think they can do anything - until someone punches them in the face and they are totally shocked.
> 
> Bloody snowflake generation....bah...complain about everything.


There is no reason to hit a child to teach them a lesson. They don't learn from that. They'll certainly learn that pain is bad, and instead be afraid of what causes the pain, namely, the parent. Which leads to a damaged relationship with their parents when they grow up. Why do you THINK parents these days don't hit their kids? Because THEY were hit as kids and it taught them that it didn't work, and that kids can be taught peacefully and with care and words, rather than abusive physical harm.


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## Meteor7 (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> Some kids need a slap, kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions, otherwise when they grow up they will think they can do anything - until someone punches them in the face and they are totally shocked.
> 
> Bloody snowflake generation....bah...complain about everything.


Certainly, but "consequences" shouldn't equate to physical abuse. What does that teach? Act a certain way and we'll hurt you? That's not how the world works, and it isn't how it should work. If an idea or behaviour is unacceptable or harmful, the reason needs to be addressed directly, not have it pushed down to fester as fear and resentment by Pavlovian conditioning. If there's no manner of reasoning that actually halts the action, as can often be the case, then it should be physically halted, though that still doesn't equate with inflicting physical pain. People who commit crimes are sent to prison, not physically tortured. The point is to cease the pain they bring by removing them from society, not to flog them until they behave themselves.


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## ChaosEternal (Sep 9, 2018)

Meteor7 said:


> People who commit crimes are sent to prison, not physically tortured. The point is to cease the pain they bring by removing them from society, not to flog them until they behave themselves.


That's one of the points, yes. However, it is not the only point. Criminal Justice is built upon several pillars: retribution, incapacitation, deterrence, rehabilitation, and restoration are all key components of the justice system and different people value different pillars different amounts. Retribution is often one of the strongest pillars here, along with deterrence. How often do you hear people gleefully talking about how certain convicts are going to be brutalized by other inmates? Far from not being the point, flogging them into behaving is a key component of our criminal justice system. I'm not a fan of it as I believe it just makes things worse, but that's the current state of our system; it is how the world we constructed does work.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Hey what the fuck!


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## DinohScene (Sep 9, 2018)

Me mum n dad had physical punishment in school like ruler slaps etc.
They turned out fine.

It's true that the majority of children are foul mouthed brats.
Teaching them a little more respect is up to the parents tho.


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## bandithedoge (Sep 9, 2018)

REEEEEEEEEE DAMN MILLENIALS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALWAYS COMPLAINING REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WE NEED TO TORTURE THEM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

No, but seriously. I'm pissed when I hear something like this. Sure, kids need to learn some respect, but absolutely not this way. And knowing that Georgia is a typical southern shithole, they'll "punish" kids for the smallest thing ever. I'm waiting for them to start doing this because of not being Christian, being gay, etc. I mean, come on, adjust your clocks for once.


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## JellyPerson (Sep 9, 2018)

tbf paddling is still common in certain parts of the world, namely Asian countries. Corporal punishment is even legal here in good ole Virginia, but no one here does it for obvious reasons.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> Me mum n dad had physical punishment in school like ruler slaps etc.
> They turned out fine.
> 
> It's true that the majority of children are foul mouthed brats.
> Teaching them a little more respect is up to the parents tho.


Curious, but did your parents also punish you by force if you "stepped out of line"?


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## AutumnWolf (Sep 9, 2018)

when did we went back in time?


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## chrisrlink (Sep 9, 2018)

Coto said:


> "kids these days" subdued to technology does not justify violence. There are other ways:
> 
> teach them, "this is how it's done". Retry a few times. People is different.
> 
> There are edge cases where the violence is within a circle. That's where education helps to stop the violence, providing tools for the circle to stop (and people that actually cares staying out of that circle). If such people continue to be violent, that violence will eat him/her alive. But that won't be our problem anymore. So you give people choice and tools.


what if the kid has a really high pain tolerance (or a really smart mouth or both) would make it sound like some BDSM shitty porno in the principals office


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> what if the kid has a really high pain tolerance (or a really smart mouth or both) would make it sound like some BDSM shitty porno in the principals office


Hey yeah no.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 9, 2018)

on second though if it was me being paddled idc if he's teh principal or not his ass would be on the floor,also this is public school system we're talking bout right i can just imagine one parent not signing the rlease then sues the school system, and yes i have an authority problem hate cops hate lawmakers even our damn president


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## mrdude (Sep 9, 2018)

FFS, Some of the comments on here - just prove to me that USA (the west) is now firmly turned into a poncy land of snowflakes and tree hugging namby pambies. God help you lot come WW3, it's not like playing on the xbox/playstation - some of you lot need to man up and get some testosterone injections as it seems you don't have any.

If you can't handle a few slaps - how will you be able to handle the harsh reality of war when the next one starts (probably in your lifetime). Grow up and grow a pair of balls FFS you girly mincers.


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## DinohScene (Sep 9, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Curious, but did your parents also punish you by force if you "stepped out of line"?



Never said they should do it with physical force.
Besides, that's none of your beeswax you pervert.


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## kumikochan (Sep 9, 2018)

I studied development psychology and there's nothing wrong with a physical punishment as long as it is justified and it doesn't relate to brutality and so forth and by that i mean like a really soft tap that doesn't make the kid feel pain. You're all forgetting that the mind also evolves over the years and especially with how a kid thinks. I don't know the English name for it but you can look at it like chess. At first a kid learns consequence through action hence why they always want to touch everything and try everything out. Then they learn that certain actions have consequences so they yeah think 1 move ahead. Your mind is fully matured around the age of 24 and that's the age we truly really start to rationalize. A teenager learns how to do this to but it's more a basic form of rationalizing but nowhere to be compared to a mature form. I believe it is okay to give a kid a tap so they learn through actions, their mind learns best that way but it shouldn't be through pain. It is literally impossible for a kid to learn through thinking it through and rationalizing since we only start to develop that around the age of 16 sort off.


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## Coto (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> FFS, Some of the comments on here - just prove to me that USA (the west) is now firmly turned into a poncy land of snowflakes and tree hugging namby pambies. God help you lot come WW3, it's not like playing on the xbox/playstation - some of you lot need to man up and get some testosterone injections as it seems you don't have any.
> 
> If you can't handle a few slaps - how will you be able to handle the harsh reality of war when the next one starts (probably in your lifetime). Grow up and grow a pair of balls FFS you girly mincers.



Yeah bitchslap these girly mincers until they might end up killing your family in some school shooting, that's how it works by your keyboard warrior logic


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## JiveTheTurkey (Sep 9, 2018)

I got spanked by the principal with the consent of my mom back in '01. Till this day I wish to run into her and pummel her face with my steel-toes but there are two people who I'm saving my life sentence for.
I would never let anyone spank my child because I wouldn't do that myself. If mine needs discipline I take away her privilege to play games, watch tv, use her tablet.


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## Xzi (Sep 9, 2018)

On the one hand, hitting kids isn't going to teach them anything except how fucked up and backwards this country is becoming.  On the other hand, that's an important lesson going forward given that we'll probably soon be without many of the freedoms we're used to having, like separation of church and state.  Kavanaugh's confirmation will mark us as a purely regressive country for generations to come.

I mean, not to sound dismissive or anything, but Trump is currently pushing for the indefinite jailing of immigrant children, so for the time being a school paddling a child seems quite tame in comparison.  People just don't give a fuck until it's something that affects them (or their children) directly.


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## The Real Jdbye (Sep 9, 2018)

This is allowed in Singapore (and has always been, I think), which is otherwise a pretty civilized place.
But there's a catch, only the principal can do it, and they have to send a written message to the parents.


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 9, 2018)

This needs more attention. There is nothing good about hurting kids, no matter how much of a little shithead they are. I saw a video about that deplorable subhuman daddyofive the other day, and the presenter said that in Maryland, a certain degree of physical abuse is legal and considered "corporal punishment." They don't even allow corporal punishment in the US Military anymore! I think these lawmakers should experience some corporal punishment themselves. I bet they'd change their minds real quick.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> FFS, Some of the comments on here - just prove to me that USA (the west) is now firmly turned into a poncy land of snowflakes and tree hugging namby pambies. God help you lot come WW3, it's not like playing on the xbox/playstation - some of you lot need to man up and get some testosterone injections as it seems you don't have any.
> 
> If you can't handle a few slaps - how will you be able to handle the harsh reality of war when the next one starts (probably in your lifetime). Grow up and grow a pair of balls FFS you girly mincers.


......

And what exactly is "a few slaps" meant to teach a child?


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## VinsCool (Sep 9, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> ......
> 
> And what exactly is "a few slaps" meant to teach a child?


That you can resort on violence to get what you want.
Clearly this is a mentality that does good.


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> FFS, Some of the comments on here - just prove to me that USA (the west) is now firmly turned into a poncy land of snowflakes and tree hugging namby pambies. God help you lot come WW3, it's not like playing on the xbox/playstation - some of you lot need to man up and get some testosterone injections as it seems you don't have any.
> 
> If you can't handle a few slaps - how will you be able to handle the harsh reality of war when the next one starts (probably in your lifetime). Grow up and grow a pair of balls FFS you girly mincers.


Oh young children are going to be fighting WW3 now? Just because we don't beat the fuck out of our kids makes us pussy snowflakes now? Whatever you say dude.


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## Deleted User (Sep 9, 2018)

Some schools are the complete opposite with a low tolerance policy,which means if you get into a fight or your involved in one,they throw you out instantly which encourages verbal abuse in the school untill someone snaps.either way it sucks.


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## ChaosEternal (Sep 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> On the one hand, hitting kids isn't going to teach them anything except how fucked up and backwards this country is becoming.


What do you mean becoming? This isn't some kind of new trend, this has been the status quo for decades if not centuries. To date, more than 50% of people in basically every racial, regional, and religious category in the US support some form corporal punishment. That number has generally been trending downwards over the years however, not upwards. As for the rest of the comment (except for the child bit, I need to read up on the policy change still), let's try to keep the fear-mongering to a minimum. No offense intended, but you sound a bit like those people who said that Obama would instate Shariah law or take everyone's guns away.


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## JellyPerson (Sep 9, 2018)

Hitting children is wrong in my opinion, but remember it's still legal in most US states, even the more liberal ones.


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## Xzi (Sep 9, 2018)

ChaosEternal said:


> That number has generally been trending downwards over the years however, not upwards. As for the rest of the comment (except for the child bit, I need to read up on the policy change still), let's try to keep the fear-mongering to a minimum. No offense intended, but you sound a bit like those people who said that Obama would instate Shariah law or take everyone's guns away.


Obama didn't get to put his final justice on the Supreme Court, and even if he had, Merrick Garland is nowhere near the extremist that Brett Kavanaugh is.  You don't have to take my word for it, just watch the confirmation hearings.  He's all but directly stated that he wants to repeal Roe v Wade and that we shouldn't have separation of church and state.  Elect regressive leaders/judges and you have to expect regressive policy, they've never been subtle about their intentions.

Let's not be disingenuous about this, either.  Trump can't really be compared with Obama or any other "normal" president.  Of course the people suggesting Obama was going to take guns were nutters, he never stated anything like that.  Trump OTOH *did* flat-out state that he wants to take guns without due process, yet he's given a pass because people know he's a fucking moron.  The bar for Obama was far higher.  For Trump it's below the lowest point of the ocean floor.


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## Carnelian (Sep 9, 2018)

leon315 said:


> THIS THING only happens in 2 places: the 1st is North korea then.... Murica



You forgot muslims country, like Moroncco and Shitty Arabia.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



mrdude said:


> Some kids need a slap, kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions, otherwise when they grow up they will think they can do anything - until someone punches them in the face and they are totally shocked.
> 
> Bloody snowflake generation....bah...complain about everything.



Like autistic kids?


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## jt_1258 (Sep 9, 2018)

It's not good but there is no denying how affective the belt is in making a child strive to stay in line o.o


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## Clydefrosch (Sep 9, 2018)

sounds like they should round up the superintendent and the teachers and smack some sense into them


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## leon315 (Sep 9, 2018)

Carnelian said:


> Shitty Arabia.


WHY SO much HATE against arabia, man, they are wealthy as fff, i don't think teachers dare to beat kids


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## 8BitWonder (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> FFS, Some of the comments on here - just prove to me that USA (the west) is now firmly turned into a poncy land of snowflakes and tree hugging namby pambies. God help you lot come WW3, it's not like playing on the xbox/playstation - some of you lot need to man up and get some testosterone injections as it seems you don't have any.
> 
> If you can't handle a few slaps - how will you be able to handle the harsh reality of war when the next one starts (probably in your lifetime). Grow up and grow a pair of balls FFS you girly mincers.


> Sees one school re-introducing paddling
> Hears a few people don't like it
> Determines the country is unfit for war
wut

On topic though; I don't think one school re-introducing the concept is going to make paddling catch on and spread again.
There were reasons paddling faded from schooling systems (even though it was still legal), and I'm sure with time GSIC will reconsider their decision.


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## Lucifer666 (Sep 9, 2018)

mrdude said:


> FFS, Some of the comments on here - just prove to me that USA (the west) is now firmly turned into a poncy land of snowflakes and tree hugging namby pambies. God help you lot come WW3, it's not like playing on the xbox/playstation - some of you lot need to man up and get some testosterone injections as it seems you don't have any.
> 
> If you can't handle a few slaps - how will you be able to handle the harsh reality of war when the next one starts (probably in your lifetime). Grow up and grow a pair of balls FFS you girly mincers.



Just WTF. This comment was a thrill of a ride from start to finish.

I had a really fun time imagining what you looked like while writing that and it inspired me to make an MS paint rendition of what just went down:







Edit: I realised quoted is British and not American after drawing it but point very much still stands. The simple fact is that kids going to school are, in fact, not at war. Go smell a flower or pet a cat or something.


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## ChaosEternal (Sep 9, 2018)

Xzi said:


> Obama didn't get to put his final justice on the Supreme Court, and even if he had, Merrick Garland is nowhere near the extremist that Brett Kavanaugh is.  You don't have to take my word for it, just watch the confirmation hearings.  He's all but directly stated that he wants to repeal Roe v Wade and that we shouldn't have separation of church and state.  Elect regressive leaders/judges and you have to expect regressive policy, they've never been subtle about their intentions.
> 
> Let's not be disingenuous about this, either.  Trump can't really be compared with Obama or any other "normal" president.  Of course the people suggesting Obama was going to take guns were nutters, he never stated anything like that.  Trump OTOH *did* flat-out state that he wants to take guns without due process, yet he's given a pass because people know he's a fucking moron.  The bar for Obama was far higher.  For Trump it's below the lowest point of the ocean floor.


Well, I have no interest in getting into a long discussion about Kavanaugh, so all I will say is that I personally have seen little evidence that he would be anything but a qualified justice. Any further discussion would just be getting off-topic anyway. I will say that I believe that Garland should have had a hearing and that the maneuvering to prevent that was reprehensible.


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## snails1221 (Sep 9, 2018)

On one hand, I guess physical punishment could teach a child a lesson "quicker". On the other hand this could lead to them hating school/the teachers even more. Plus, it's 2018 and everyone and their mother has access to an AR-15 or similar at this point.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 9, 2018)

ITT: People confusing disciplinary actions with physical abuse.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



snails1221 said:


> On one hand, I guess physical punishment could teach a child a lesson "quicker". On the other hand this could lead to them hating school/the teachers even more. Plus, it's 2018 and everyone and their mother has access to an AR-15 or similar at this point.


It's a double edged blade. Physical discipline (ie Spanking) isn't so much the issue. There's a world of subsequent consequences that stem from this. It can breed fear rather Than respect. Hm..


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## dAVID_ (Sep 9, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> what if the kid has a really high pain tolerance (or a really smart mouth or both) would make it sound like some BDSM shitty porno in the principals office


memorable quote


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## Xzi (Sep 9, 2018)

ChaosEternal said:


> Well, I have no interest in getting into a long discussion about Kavanaugh, so all I will say is that I personally have seen little evidence that he would be anything but a qualified justice. Any further discussion would just be getting off-topic anyway. I will say that I believe that Garland should have had a hearing and that the maneuvering to prevent that was reprehensible.


It is a bit off-topic, but the composition of the supreme court has a far-reaching impact that likely will include educational issues at some point.  I'm no legal scholar, but attempting to become a supreme court justice with the intention of overturning established law seems like it should be disqualifying.  Assuming all the perjury Kavanaugh committed during his confirmation hearings isn't disqualifying enough.


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## chrisrlink (Sep 9, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> ......
> 
> And what exactly is "a few slaps" meant to teach a child?



more violence people don't think that one bad kid corperal punishment could send over the edge an well look at the number of school shootings you wouldn't think of a few blows could wind up costing innocent lives the next day or so


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## Whole lotta love (Sep 9, 2018)

friendly reminder that there is no evidence suggesting corporeal punishment to be an effective way of raising children. In fact there is a lot of evidence to suggest it causes the problems it's supposed to correct.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27055181


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Whole lotta love said:


> friendly reminder that there is no evidence suggesting corporeal punishment to be an effective way of raising children. In fact there is a lot of evidence to suggest it causes the problems it's supposed to correct.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27055181


God I love it when you come into a thread with statistics just on hand. It puts a smile on my face


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## ChaosEternal (Sep 9, 2018)

Whole lotta love said:


> friendly reminder that there is no evidence suggesting corporeal punishment to be an effective way of raising children. In fact there is a lot of evidence to suggest it causes the problems it's supposed to correct.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27055181


Well cited! Now we just wait a generation or two for the information to filter out into the general public and we'll see some change.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

Memoir said:


> ITT: People confusing disciplinary actions with physical abuse.


I guess I don't see how they can't just be the same thing, ESPECIALLY for the younger kids. If they can't understand why what they're doing is wrong, they won't understand why they're being paddled/slapped/beaten/screamed at, other than "that's just what happens when I do this around this person." It's both physical and psychological abuse and doesn't correct the behavior, it only ensures that if they continue to behave that way they do it when the disciplinarian isn't watching


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## rileysrjay (Sep 9, 2018)

Georgian here, and while growing up, it was incredibly common for parents to spank children for their actions during elementary school. By the time I got into middle and high it was much more common for parents to go the grounding route (take away tv, phone, car, etc.). That was probably due to most of the parents that did use physical punishment taking their children out of the school I was in (it was a private school) and placing them into the public school system. My parents always went the grounding route since they couldn't bring themselves to physically hurt a child, and I'm with them on that. If I ever had a child I don't think I could bring myself to physically harm them. Back on topic, afaik all the public schools around me haven't had corporal punishment for years, and even a lot of parents have tended to stop using it (except for the occasional redneck in walmart yelling/ beating their child, which still unfortunately happens). On the one hand I find it utterly bizarre that they'd bring corporal punishment back, but on the other hand, there are probably a few extremely rural places (especially in certain parts of south georgia and a couple of the mountain counties) that I could see them unfortunately bringing it back. I'm in a fairly rural community, and even if they brought it back out here, there would probably be major backlash from parents.


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## DiscostewSM (Sep 9, 2018)

Paddle the parents. If anyone is to blame for a child's misbehaving, it's them. Maybe then the parents will take more responsibility in raising their children to be more respective.

Now in a odd switch of focus, spanking never really worked on my younger brother. When he got spanked, he laughed.


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## BiggieCheese (Sep 9, 2018)

“Talking out of turn? That's a paddlin'. Lookin' out the window? That's a paddlin'. Staring at my sandals? That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin’.”


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## Hanafuda (Sep 9, 2018)

They had paddling at my elementary school, as a final recourse before being suspended. In other words, it didn't get to that point until you'd been in trouble many times. But for those of us who avoided getting in trouble in the first place, it was a hell of a deterrent actually. More because it would be humiliating for everyone to know you got spanked, than just because of the spanking itself.


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## jimmyj (Sep 9, 2018)

leon315 said:


> THIS THING only happens in 2 places: the 1st is North korea then.... Murica


dude literally every parent in the world still spanks their kids


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 9, 2018)

jimmyj said:


> dude literally every parent in the world still spanks their kids


They really don't though, and I think there's a good argument against doing so for those that DO


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## Captain_N (Sep 9, 2018)

Good. Them little shits think they can get away with anything. Paddling whips them into shape.


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## jimmyj (Sep 9, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> They really don't though, and I think there's a good argument against doing so for those that DO


does literally hitting me on the head sound fair for when I couldn't solve a maths division? I can count hundreds of times my dad hitting me for no good reason


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## JellyPerson (Sep 9, 2018)

jimmyj said:


> does literally hitting me on the head sound fair for when I couldn't solve a maths division? I can count hundreds of times my dad hitting me for no good reason


Your parents suck.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

jimmyj said:


> does literally hitting me on the head sound fair for when I couldn't solve a maths division? I can count hundreds of times my dad hitting me for no good reason


No???? And that's what I'm saying?


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## Viri (Sep 10, 2018)

When I was a kid, I'd rather get my ass kicked by my parents than punished, lol. Getting hit only hurts for a few minutes, not being allowed to go outside with your friends all day, or no video games for the day is much worse.


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## mrdude (Sep 10, 2018)

jimmyj said:


> does literally hitting me on the head sound fair for when I couldn't solve a maths division? I can count hundreds of times my dad hitting me for no good reason



It sounds like you never got hit enough for your English punctuation. All sentences start with an uppercase letter and end in a full stop/period.

Children get hit generally when teachers have just had enough and telling children to be quiet or stop being disruptive, giving lines and such other measures have failed. Snowflakes seem outraged when they need to face consequences for their actions - well maybe it's about time they started being punished again rather than those non physical punishments.

If you think this is outrageous, think about life in the real world - for example a dictator is using chemical weapons on people, do you send in the Army/Drones to kill the mother f*cker or do you give him lines?

The example is extreme, but their are various levels of punishment, if the lesser one fails - you move up to the next level. Getting belted/paddled is a last resort when other options have failed. So you learn to take the punishment for the crime.

FFS - USA still have the death penalty, and yet snowflakes are complaining about getting punished for something they obviously deserve to be punished for......if the crime deserves the punishment, man up and take it like you deserve.


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## JellyPerson (Sep 10, 2018)

mrdude said:


> It sounds like you never got hit enough for your English punctuation. All sentences start with an uppercase letter and end in a full stop/period.
> 
> Children get hit generally when teachers have just had enough and telling children to be quiet or stop being disruptive, giving lines and such other measures have failed. Snowflakes seem outraged when they need to face consequences for their actions - well maybe it's about time they started being punished again rather than those non physical punishments.
> 
> ...


Dude, chill the fuck out.

So you're saying serial murder shouldn't be charged with death? I think a murder should be punished with, well, murder. But they have to be sure who did it.


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## mrdude (Sep 10, 2018)

JellyPerson said:


> Dude, chill the fuck out.
> 
> So you're saying serial murder shouldn't be charged with death? I think a murder should be punished with, well, murder. But they have to be sure who did it.



And where in my post did you read that? you never, and instead threw a tantrum like a little snowflake schoolgirl. I am all for the death penalty - and would give it to more people than currently get it (All pedo's/rapists/murderers). I think people deserve to be punished for crimes they commit - starting from childhood so they grow up knowing there are consequences for actions.


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## JellyPerson (Sep 10, 2018)

mrdude said:


> And where in my post did you read that? you never, and instead threw a tantrum like a little snowflake schoolgirl. I am all for the death penalty - and would give it to more people than currently get it (All pedo's/rapists/murderers). I think people deserve to be punished for crimes they commit - starting from childhood so they grow up knowing there are consequences for actions.


Look man, I don't know what kind of Sharia law you're living under, but I don't want to beat my kids. They're just kids. They're innocent. Taking away their video games would be a better punishment, or making them do chores or do something they don't like would be better.


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 10, 2018)

According to Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, time and space are two sides of the same coin, both can be traversed to the point it can actually be 1853 in some other point of space.

Disclaimer: not actually how it works™


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## mrdude (Sep 10, 2018)

JellyPerson said:


> Look man, I don't know what kind of Sharia law you're living under, but I don't want to beat my kids. They're just kids. They're innocent. Taking away their video games would be a better punishment, or making them do chores or do something they don't like would be better.


Unfortunately teachers at school can't take away a pupils video game or ground them or make them do chores - and some parents wouldn't enforce this if the school asked them, hence the school teachers needing to resort to punishing the kids themselves. Maybe if some people taught their kids better they wouldn't need to be punished in school at all - but they don't, hence the measures schools are re-introducing.


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## JellyPerson (Sep 10, 2018)

mrdude said:


> Unfortunately teachers at school can't take away a pupils video game or ground them or make them do chores - and some parents wouldn't enforce this if the school asked them, hence the school teachers needing to resort to punishing the kids themselves. Maybe if some people taught their kids better they wouldn't need to be punished in school at all - but they don't, hence the measures schools are re-introducing.


Ever heard of "detention"? It's a new concept.


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## mrdude (Sep 10, 2018)

JellyPerson said:


> Ever heard of "detention"? It's a new concept.



I'm pretty sure the schools that are reintroducing the paddle, have this already and it's failed for some pupils - hence the need to resort to physical punishment.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 10, 2018)

A sad affair. Corporal punishments used to be popular and widely accepted. The reason they got eventually cancelled wasn't so much of humanitarian reasons but because it was scientifically proven that it did not solve the underlying problems. In other words: schools that used it had (at best) the same amount of troublemakers, issues and misbehaving students, but the latter usually had a much better relationship with their students.

So...I honestly don't have a clue what that superintendent is thinking or hopes to achieve (aside perhaps making worldwide news).

Unfortunately, that isn't the worst news. We can complain all we want about that school, but they are implementing it correctly. They only do it on the third strike, and only with the willing consent of the parents.

Honestly: I'm more worried about the sort of parents that say _"I've heard 'great, it's about time, 'we're so glad that this is happening again, they should've never taken it out of schools"_ than schools that at least are consistent about it. Or to put it different: what's the point of schools not using corporal punishments if being suspended means they'll only get beaten by their parents? 

But all in all: you've got to fight this way of thinking. Corporal punishments never achieves better students in the long run. It's stupid to attempt it because (again) it's been proven not to work. As such, I have no doubt that it WILL lead to lawsuits from these very students somewhere in the future.



chrisrlink said:


> what if the kid has a really high pain tolerance (or a really smart mouth or both) would make it sound like some BDSM shitty porno in the principals office


Okay...as a BDSM practicer, I can honestly answer that question: no. And that's putting it mildly.

A masochist isn't simply "turned on by pain". I can explain more to those that are genuinely interested, but suffice to say that in a non-sexual setting, pain is just that: pain. Something to avoid.

(NOTE: it's a common debate on whether corporal punishments create more future BDSM aficionados. As it stands, plenty of people who were never punished that way - among which yours truly, btw - can turn out that way. So I'm inclined to believe it at best triggers something within those who already had it in them to begin with).


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## alevan (Sep 10, 2018)

Actually, I think physical violence helps in the growing of the kids. If it's not overused.


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## Coolsonickirby (Sep 10, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> what if the kid has a really high pain tolerance (or a really smart mouth or both)


I was (and kinda am) one of those kids. Every time my parents or grandma used to hit me, I'd just take the hit and honestly not care about the reason they hit me (although I understand they hit me to become a better person as some of the reasons they hit me I understand why when I think about it nowadays.)


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## x65943 (Sep 10, 2018)

It's a private school. It's not uncommon for these places to have policies where they can whack kids (although the paddle in particular is kinda out there.)

At my Catholic middle school the principal used to hit us just for fun (as far as I can tell).


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## Jayro (Sep 10, 2018)

Oh great, here come the anti-spanking SJWs...

I was spanked as a kid, and now I suffer from a disorder called "respect for others". Oh darn, end of the world.


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## KiiWii (Sep 10, 2018)

TLDR: what % of parents signed that slip to allow that?


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 10, 2018)

Just as a mirror of a reality I often refuse to see, GBATemp comes and saddens me.
Damn bubbles and distorting safe spaces, looking outside the world is still a messy nest of hate perpetuated by people discharging their frustration yet feeling enough comfort in the acceptance of their actions by their close circle, their own bubble, already indoctrinated themselves for ages. An everlasting Stockholm-syndrome.

Yeah, it saddens me.


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## jimmyj (Sep 10, 2018)

mrdude said:


> It sounds like you never got hit enough for your English punctuation. All sentences start with an uppercase letter and end in a full stop/period.
> 
> Children get hit generally when teachers have just had enough and telling children to be quiet or stop being disruptive, giving lines and such other measures have failed. Snowflakes seem outraged when they need to face consequences for their actions - well maybe it's about time they started being punished again rather than those non physical punishments.
> 
> ...


dude chill out almost nobody on the internet uses proper punctuation. plus when I'm having a test or writing something do you really think I write internet way? No,so shut the fuck up dude.


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## DeadlyFoez (Sep 10, 2018)

Corporal punishment should never go away. Because parents are too afraid to give their child a good lesson in showing respect, you get children that act like this...

and then they grow up doing this...


I don't agree with beating a child or whooping them just because you are angry with them, but children that do not have proper respect need to be taught it.

My child once went and starting kicking and spitting on her bus driver. Damn straight I took her inside the house and she got the belt across her ass for it. She never acted that way again. She still absolutely loves me, but she knows that she acted wrong and needed to be punished.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

Jayro said:


> Oh great, here come the anti-spanking SJWs...
> 
> I was spanked as a kid, and now I suffer from a disorder called "respect for others". Oh darn, end of the world.


That sounds exactly like something a pro-spanking BOFA would say


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## BlueFox gui (Sep 10, 2018)

schools whouldn't do that, parents should do that e.e


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## Xzi (Sep 10, 2018)

DeadlyFoez said:


> Corporal punishment should never go away. Because parents are too afraid to give their child a good lesson in showing respect, you get children that act like this...
> 
> and then they grow up doing this...
> 
> ...



There's a very real possibility that the people in those videos _were_ hit as children and now they lash out any way they can.  You act like strippers with abusive parents aren't a dime a dozen as well.  Respect and good manners can be taught without hitting/spanking.  The parents who do have to resort to that are typically either ill-tempered or short-tempered, so it's not a surprise when the kids grow up and act the same.


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## DeadlyFoez (Sep 10, 2018)

Xzi said:


> There's a very real possibility that the people in those videos _were_ hit as children and now they lash out any way they can.  You act like strippers with abusive parents aren't a dime a dozen as well.  Respect and good manners can be taught without hitting/spanking.  The parents who do have to resort to that are typically either ill-tempered or short-tempered, so it's not a surprise when the kids grow up and act the same.


I disagree. I got spanked as a kid and i dont treat people poorly now. Hell, you can even hear the woman saying in the first video that she wont hit her child.


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## Xzi (Sep 10, 2018)

DeadlyFoez said:


> I disagree. I got spanked as a kid and i dont treat people poorly now. Hell, you can even hear the woman saying in the first video that she wont hit her child.


That's anecdotal, though.  I guarantee that spanking and hitting are some of the issues that come up most in therapy when discussing parents.  It's a given that children do need boundaries, but IMO hitting/spanking represent a real lack of creativity in how you can establish those boundaries.


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## puss2puss (Sep 10, 2018)

i would meet the teacher with my Lucille..she is a vammmmmpire bat!


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## SonowRaevius (Sep 10, 2018)

DeadlyFoez said:


> I disagree. I got spanked as a kid and i dont treat people poorly now. Hell, you can even hear the woman saying in the first video that she wont hit her child.


I know many people that were spanked, with belts and paddles, as children/teenagers who treat everyone like shit and either became druggies or domestic abusers themselves. Hell, have even seen a girl a knew from school slap her mother in the face and call her a dumb bitch. 

Meanwhile I know many more people that were never spanked, treat people like they want to be treated,and their kids behave quite well because they properly discipline them. 

Hell was never spanked myself and I never acted out, the worst thing I even did as a teenager was show up 5 minutes late for dinner.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 10, 2018)

Gods, America is f'n backwards. I got my ass spanked by my parents as a kid when I was being a little shit, and I'm okay with _that_, but corporal punishment in schools, by officials... Fuck no, _*ESPECIALLY*_ not as they justify it.
America's problem isn't violent media, video games or any of that junk. Our problem is, plain and simple, that we don't address our issues. We have a media circus, where people say America needs to talk about gun violence/access to weapons, mental health, the education system, all manner of things, and then NOTHING comes from it until the next wave of killings, police violence, whatever. Then the circus starts again and it all gets buried all over again, only to have the same non-starter conversations again. We have no follow-through. Either through ignorance, fear or manipulation, we fail to fix what is plainly, clearly broken.


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## Attacker3 (Sep 10, 2018)

Hey, as long as the parents sign off on it, it's absolutely fine in my book. It's only a max of 3 times, come on people. If you're being a little shit and disturbing on multiple occasions, you'll get a few smacks on the ass. It's called operant conditioning, and it works.


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## bitjacker (Sep 10, 2018)

I was horrified of my elementary principal. He was known to whop ass with a yardstick. That was being phased out just as i was starting 2nd grade. Mr. Wicks= your fucked.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 10, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Hey, as long as the parents sign off on it, it's absolutely fine in my book. It's only a max of 3 times, come on people. If you're being a little shit and disturbing on multiple occasions, you'll get a few smacks on the ass. It's called operant conditioning, and it works.





Whole lotta love said:


> friendly reminder that there is no evidence suggesting corporeal punishment to be an effective way of raising children. In fact there is a lot of evidence to suggest it causes the problems it's supposed to correct.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447048/
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27055181


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## Arecaidian Fox (Sep 10, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Hey, as long as the parents sign off on it, it's absolutely fine in my book. It's only a max of 3 times, come on people. If you're being a little shit and disturbing on multiple occasions, you'll get a few smacks on the ass. It's called operant conditioning, and it works.


Yeah, no, the first person to try and discipline my kid like that, that isn't me will feel _my_ hand across them. Respect for the rules and how to not be a societal nightmare to your fellow human beings starts, as always, at home. Schools have no business laying their paws on other people's kids like this. You send 'em to detention and/or suspend them. Then the _PARENTS_ decide what happens. If that's a whuppin' at home, it's a whuppin' at home (if you do that, and FFS, be reasonable). If that's a stern talking to and having privileges stripped, that's what happens there. And if the parents want to work _with_ the school to determine a punishment, that's fine, too. But there is *ZERO* fucking excuse (save for extreme circumstances) for a teacher or other official deciding to physically assault a child. Again, fuck no.


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## Song of storms (Sep 11, 2018)

Newsflash to all the people in this thread defending the punishment: if you can't educate your kids without violence, you shouldn't have kids.


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## Empu1 (Sep 11, 2018)

I always think of this one gif here when people start discussing whether some sort of physical punishment is okay or not ​


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## Attacker3 (Sep 11, 2018)

Very nice meta-analysis, where they qualify "spanking" as "smacking, slapping, or hitting" anywhere on the body, as long as it not meant to cause harm. Truly an amazing piece. Oh, and it also excluded schools and other institutions in that analysis. It also excluded studies where spanking was combined with other types of discipline. No shit you're going to be a little screwed up if you get spanked every time you screw up, but this analysis excluded studies where it was used as a last measure. This meta-analysis has it's place, but the fact that you're using it against spanking as a whole does not make sense.

Edit: Oh, and it also excluded studies that had threats of spanking, meaning that this analysis looked at when a child did something wrong, they were immediately spanked without warning at all.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 11, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Very nice meta-analysis, where they qualify "spanking" as "smacking, slapping, or hitting" anywhere on the body, as long as it not meant to cause harm. Truly an amazing piece. Oh, and it also excluded schools and other institutions in that analysis. It also excluded studies where spanking was combined with other types of discipline. No shit you're going to be a little screwed up if you get spanked every time you screw up, but this analysis excluded studies where it was used as a last measure. This meta-analysis has it's place, but the fact that you're using it against spanking as a whole does not make sense.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and it also excluded studies that had threats of spanking, meaning that this analysis looked at when a child did something wrong, they were immediately spanked without warning at all.


Where on earth are you seeing that said studies were excluded? Or are those hypothetical studies that you wish existed, but don't know what the real-world outcome would be?


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## Joe88 (Sep 11, 2018)

DeadlyFoez said:


> Corporal punishment should never go away. Because parents are too afraid to give their child a good lesson in showing respect, you get children that act like this...
> 
> and then they grow up doing this...
> 
> ...



Dont forget this one, guy even says he needs his ass whooped


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## lexarvn (Sep 11, 2018)

This is just anecdotal, but I was spanked a couple of times as a kid, and I would say that it was 100% ineffective. My parents were reasonably good parents so I must have done something they considered very terrible to be spanked, but I have no idea what it was back then or now. I would suspect that most kids even if they are told why they are being spanked don't *understand* why and only recall the bad experience, not the lesson they were supposed to learn.


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## gameboy (Sep 11, 2018)

i was very violent to other kids in elementary school and getting my ass whooped was the only solution. Same thing with my cousin LOL. 

BUT if it was a teacher that spanked me instead of my parents i wouldve come at her like a spider monkey


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## gnmmarechal (Sep 11, 2018)

lmfao what


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## Ericthegreat (Sep 11, 2018)

Chary said:


> Make sure to check your calendars, because yes, it is actually not 1853, and yes, people still think physical punishment is an okay method to "train" kids. A school in Georgia is showing that the south still has some backwards mindsets even in the modern day, as they've brought back corporal punishment for misbehaving kids.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay so this is a private school? Because I think for private schools this isn't that rare(well im sure still rare but there are other private schools that did this).


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## Song of storms (Sep 11, 2018)

Joe88 said:


> Dont forget this one, guy even says he needs his ass whooped


The kid clearly has issues. The last thing you want to do to a kid with issues is making him a violent thug for all the abuse.

I've seen all the videos and gifs posted here to "prove" that kids need corporal punishment but all I've seen were uneducated kids and their parents not giving a shit about what they were doing.


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## Attacker3 (Sep 11, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Where on earth are you seeing that said studies were excluded? Or are those hypothetical studies that you wish existed, but don't know what the real-world outcome would be?



In the actual study itself, not the abstract. Maybe read the full meta-analysis instead of the abstract?


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 11, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> In the actual study itself, not the abstract. Maybe read the full meta-analysis instead of the abstract?


I skimmed the full study and I didn't see anything explicit exclusions? I'm not gonna lie I've got college classes so unless I decide to write a paper on this (which I just might) there's not much incentive for me to sit down and read in-depth, especially when I could be studying


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## Attacker3 (Sep 11, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I skimmed the full study and I didn't see anything explicit exclusions? I'm not gonna lie I've got college classes so unless I decide to write a paper on this (which I just might) there's not much incentive for me to sit down and read in-depth, especially when I could be studying



It's the last page


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 11, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> It's the last page


Thanks, I'll check


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## Attacker3 (Sep 11, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Thanks, I'll check


Almost 1500 studies we excluded, which is fine, but they excluded the ones where spanking was only one of the disciplinary measures, and ones where spanking was a threat, and ones where it was used in school. Very misleading abstract I must say


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 11, 2018)

Attacker3 said:


> Almost 1500 studies we excluded, which is fine, but they excluded the ones where spanking was only one of the disciplinary measures, and ones where spanking was a threat, and ones where it was used in school. Very misleading abstract I must say


Ok can you directly quote the text you're looking at? I don't know if we're mixing signals here but I'm not seeing anything like that in the linked publication


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## Deleted User (Sep 12, 2018)

I'm generally okay with paddling, but this is ridiculous. The school should not, under any circumstances, physically punish the child.

If your going to paddle your kid, do it yourself. You know your kid best, and can decide the best way to punish them. Don't toss responsibility to the school.


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## Attacker3 (Sep 12, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Ok can you directly quote the text you're looking at? I don't know if we're mixing signals here but I'm not seeing anything like that in the linked publication



Appendix Number and Percent of Studies Excluded from the Meta-Analyses by Exclusion Code Reason for exclusion from meta-analyses Number of studies excluded Percent Spanking not linked with child outcomes (e.g., prevalence only). 238 16 Not an empirical article (e.g., a literature review). 221 15 Definition of physical punishment included harsh methods of physical punishment beyond spanking, slapping, or hitting. 194 13 Spanking was not measured in the study. 171 11 Study was an unpublished dissertation. 104 7 Article was not relevant. 85 6 Attitudes toward, and not use of, physical punishment was assessed. 82 5 Study was of physical punishment in schools or other institutions. 73 5 Study did not include a bivariate association between spanking and the child outcome. 61 4 Study was of an intervention to reduce physical punishment. 47 3 Available statistics were unclear, insufficient, or inappropriate for the meta-analyses. 46 3 Spanking was combined with yelling or some form of psychological aggression. 44 3 Study was not available in English. 32 2 Spanking was combined with other types of discipline. 30 2 Study was published as a book chapter or conference presentation. 23 2 Study used same dataset as another study in the meta-analysis. 23 2 Dependent variable did not fit into other outcome categories. 11 1 Spanking was of animals, not children. 5 1 Article was unavailable through interlibrary loan. 3 1 Spanking measure included threats of spanking. 3 1 Physical punishment measure was nontraditional (i.e., aversive noise; washing mouth out with soap). 2 1 Study involved a special population of children (chromosomal abnormality). 1 1 Total number of excluded studies 1,499 100%


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## Taleweaver (Sep 12, 2018)

DeadlyFoez said:


> ...
> I don't agree with beating a child or whooping them just because you are angry with them, but children that do not have proper respect need to be taught it.
> 
> My child once went and starting kicking and spitting on her bus driver. Damn straight I took her inside the house and she got the belt across her ass for it. She never acted that way again. She still absolutely loves me, but she knows that she acted wrong and needed to be punished.


This is an interesting post, because I agree with it. It is IMHO, however, a different scenario than a corporate punishment by a school.


The difference is in that "She still absolutely loves me" that you mentioned. That implies an obvious love (or respect) before the punishment. And that's where I think the problem is with a school. From what I can tell, those "good old schools" didn't incite love nor respect from their students but fear. Getting caught meant getting punished, but that only fueled hate or spite of getting caught, rather than learning why their actions were wrong to begin with.

That's why my stance against the school isn't changed: I simply don't believe that they can instill love/respect or inspiration in their students with it. I might be wrong on that, which ironically would mean that I'd be okay with the punishment as described as being a last option. But as it stands, I think they'd just punish children who won't learn anything from it to begin with.






Empu1 said:


> I always think of this one gif here when people start discussing whether some sort of physical punishment is okay or not ​


The interesting part in this gif isn't so much in how the kid acts, but in how the parent (behind the child) DOESN'T act.  She could've avoided the whole thing, but she just let it escalate like that. If the guy on the left is a stranger, that just might've been his only way to prevent himself from getting attacked like that (from sites like notalwaysright.com, I've read many instances where parents act in pretty weird ways when being criticized for their children).


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## Empu1 (Sep 12, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> The interesting part in this gif isn't so much in how the kid acts, but in how the parent (behind the child) DOESN'T act.  She could've avoided the whole thing, but she just let it escalate like that. If the guy on the left is a stranger, that just might've been his only way to prevent himself from getting attacked like that (from sites like notalwaysright.com, I've read many instances where parents act in pretty weird ways when being criticized for their children).



Parents can't really do much nowadays anyway. As soon as they do, people around them will freak out because "oh no, they're yelling at a kid! the poor child will be traumatized for life! you monster!"


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## Taleweaver (Sep 12, 2018)

Empu1 said:


> Parents can't really do much nowadays anyway. As soon as they do, people around them will freak out because "oh no, they're yelling at a kid! the poor child will be traumatized for life! you monster!"


Yes...and in doing so, these "well meaning" bystanders cause more harm than the parent. It's also shown in the first video @DeadlyFoez posted: the parent literally said that she couldn't discipline her kid because then she'd be sent to jail. That obviously won't happen, but that doesn't remove the fear that it MIGHT happen.

I'm not a parent, but I see this same thing with dogs. I immediately correct her when she even attempts to bark during a walk (no matter if it's at a human, another dog, animal or...well...anything). Without exception, the most noisy dogs we meet are ones where the owner just lets them get away with it. Maybe they're embarrassed to correct their dog in public. Maybe they're too afraid to harm their dog (or worse: their feelings). Either way: in the long run, this kind of negligence costs more than overcoming what amounts to being the responsible one.
Now...I obviously can't say that raising children works the same way. But there is certainly some merit in that you need to correct your child as soon as it misbehaves, and within reason and discipline.

To get back at this school. I made the notion earlier that somewhere in the future, people will sue the school for receiving spankings. They might even win. But that wouldn't be because spankings itself cause trauma, but in the hysterical way that the environment might talk the persons into believing they're traumatized.


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 12, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> I'm not a parent, but I see this same thing with dogs. I immediately correct her when she even attempts to bark during a walk (no matter if it's at a human, another dog, animal or...well...anything). Without exception, the most noisy dogs we meet are ones where the owner just lets them get away with it. Maybe they're embarrassed to correct their dog in public. Maybe they're too afraid to harm their dog (or worse: their feelings).


Do you bring a stick and hit your dog with it every time it tries to bark during a walk?
Honest question.
I mean, for my dog usually a direct strong gaze is more than enough. I guess he catches up very quickly with the disgust of its owner.


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## Taleweaver (Sep 12, 2018)

sarkwalvein said:


> Do you bring a stick and hit your dog with it every time it tries to bark during a walk?
> Honest question.
> I mean, for my dog usually a direct strong gaze is more than enough. I guess he catches up very quickly with the disgust of its owner.


Hmm...the fact that you have to ask this question tells me you don't (want to) see what I mean. Sorry...I probably communicated it wrong. 

Let's start by answering your question: no. We've had her since she was a puppy, and in that time she grew to love and respect my girlfriend and me. To my own surprise, she listens even better to me than my girlfriend (who grew up with dogs...it's my first one). I can speculate on reasons, but especially in her first weeks, she was always punished for misbehaving. It was pretty exhausting, and especially my girlfriend had to learn (from her mother, who did the actual raising of "my girlfriend's" dogs) to be firm and direct to her. But in the end, it was certainly worth it. We could've been more firm or severe, and perhaps even train her like in a dog's school, but we think she's (mostly) fine the way she is.

So that she's behaving when being walked isn't so much something you "have or do not have", but is the result of all the previous experiences. She doesn't just "know" she's not allowed to bark during walks: she knows it until her deepest self (meaning: she won't pull that sort of stuff when e.g. my mother walks her). It's been a while since she made any attempt at barking/growling at another dog, but she knows (correctly) that that immediately puts me in a "you are NOT allowed to do that" mode. Turning my attention toward her is usually enough to make her stop, perhaps with a bit of "towering above her" (us humans are about five times taller than the average dog*...that alone should be enough to remind dogs not to mess with us).
Having a stick would be both wrong and ineffective. Wrong because it constantly signals to the dog that she better not misbehaves (you want to encourage what you want to achieve, not remind them of what NOT to do, which would put her on edge for what is meant to relax her). Ineffective because I read about a better way. If you curve your hand like a claw and pinch her behind the ear/neck for about a quarter second, it directly focuses her attention. The feeling is apparently akin to how mother dogs grab their children by the neck to pull them away from danger, but in any case: I've only had to do it a couple of times in her lifetime, and it's almost stupidly effective (and far less likely to cause physical harm than a stick would do)**.



Anyhow...to get back at the actual school situation: the teachers don't walk around with sticks in the schoolyard either. It would be better if they could just commandeer respect by that "undivided attention" thing, but you don't just GET that on a whim (heck...lots of parents struggle with that, and they spent entire years longer with their children).


*I've got a beagle, btw.
**I'm obviously not going to test the effect of multiple uses.


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## Empu1 (Sep 12, 2018)

Taleweaver said:


> ... The parent literally said that she couldn't discipline her kid because then she'd be sent to jail. That obviously won't happen, but that doesn't remove the fear that it MIGHT happen.



Perhaps not sent to jail, but others will call CPS on you for the weirdest of reasons. It's a thing that happenes, which is why we have websites such as cpsdefense telling you what to when they come knocking at your door. False accusations are terrible and I'd imagine parents don't wanna have to deal with anything like that, hence why you get kids doing whatever they want


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