# Nintendo files $40 Million Dollar lawsuit against Japanese mobile game company "Colopl"



## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 10, 2018)

I can't see this going anywhere...


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## KingVamp (Jan 10, 2018)

Sounds kind of weird, tbh. Kind of like they are lashing out after being sued themselves. 

Anyway, even if they are in the right, that's a lot of money just for this.  After looking at the video, reminds me of Zelda Hourglass too, but still doesn't look like much to patent over.


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## AutumnWolf (Jan 10, 2018)

The pdf document doesn't say which - other- patents have been violated


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## WiiUBricker (Jan 10, 2018)

Sinon said:


> The pdf document doesn't say which - other- patents have been violated


Looks like a google translation. But yeah, it’s clear now that the document doesn’t reveal anything new.


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## kumikochan (Jan 10, 2018)

Just Nintendo using their power as a big company to bully smaller companies now that they entered the mobile market just as they're doing with YouTube and so on.


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## skawo (Jan 10, 2018)

Sounds bullshit. Besides, the control scheme sucks.


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## AutumnWolf (Jan 10, 2018)

WiiUBricker said:


> Looks like a google translation. But yeah, it’s clear now that the document doesn’t reveal anything new.


 I used this to translate it: https://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/translationform
It uses google translate to translate documents


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## SaiTheOHaireDeliveryGuy (Jan 10, 2018)

Looks like they're just trying to make money after their recent loss to iLife Technologies.


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## Alkéryn (Jan 10, 2018)

That's bullshit i hope they loose the lawsuit
idk the game but it is unfair
So i hope the noise they made make free advertisment for them


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## BlueFox gui (Jan 10, 2018)

LOL nintendo made a thingy to play with "analog" on mario 64 DS
that's so weird XD


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## GoldenSun3DS (Jan 10, 2018)

Fuck Nintendo.


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## Bladexdsl (Jan 10, 2018)

animal crossing mobile micro$ sales must be falling


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## Bubsy Bobcat (Jan 10, 2018)

fuckin' capitalism. gotta try to suck money out of smaller companies because you're not rich enough.


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## TVL (Jan 10, 2018)

I hope Nintendo loses and gets embarrassed in court. But I have no idea. I think it's stupid that you can have such a patent to begin with. Lost some respect for Nintendo with this news.


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## bi388 (Jan 10, 2018)

Where was Nintendo when chrono trigger was ported to iOS? Unlike this company, square enix actually has 40 million to lose.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 10, 2018)

Sorry Nintendo but you don't own on screen buttons. Should any company who made a touch screen device that used a stylus be suing Nintendo? Should tablet manufacturers be suing Nintendo? The answer is clearly no. This is just Nintendo being greedy. If Nintendo wins this thing I hope another company sues them over something to teach them a lesson. Or that this company sues and wins.


bi388 said:


> Where was Nintendo when chrono trigger was ported to iOS? Unlike this company, square enix actually has 40 million to lose.


Square Enix probably owns the IP. Nintendo probably only holds the copyright for the SNES version.


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## wiewiec (Jan 10, 2018)

For me it is same as apple lawsuits.


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## dAVID_ (Jan 10, 2018)

Just Nintendo being a dick.

As always with these copyright things.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 10, 2018)

dAVID_ said:


> Just Nintendo being a dick.
> 
> As always with these copyright things.


They're the Apple of gaming..

Still love my Switch though..


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 10, 2018)

wiewiec said:


> For me it is same as apple lawsuits.


Just companies being greedy and trying to sue companies for money even though other companies aren't suing them for using similar ideas.


dAVID_ said:


> Just Nintendo being a dick.
> 
> As always with these copyright things.


Well if you're suing people for illegally uploading your copyrighted content it makes sense, but a lot of these patent infringement cases are jokes.


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## xBleedingSoulx (Jan 10, 2018)

There's gotta be more to it? Sounds too low, even for Nintendo.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 10, 2018)

xBleedingSoulx said:


> There's gotta be more to it? Sounds too low, even for Nintendo.


I doubt it. Nintendo's mad that they've been sued over the Wii remote, the glasses free 3D technology in tbe 3DS, and the Wii U gamepad. The former two the plaintiffs won (I'm not well informed on the Wii remote,but the glasses free 3D one was suspect, even the judge drastically lowered the amount Nintendo had to pay in damages).

I don't know how it works in Japan but I hope it doesn't have a jury for lawsuits like this, because a judge is probably less likely to tolerate the bullshit in these claims.

Because there's a lot more to this than "Yeah it's a joystick on a screen".


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## wiewiec (Jan 10, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Just companies being greedy and trying to sue companies for money even though other companies aren't suing them for using similar ideas.
> 
> Well if you're suing people for illegally uploading your copyrighted content it makes sense, but a lot of these patent infringement cases are jokes.



And we have absurds like that, as i remember one of Apple lamsuits was scrolling thing and how the look of reaction is.

But stupid kind of lawsuit - often used by Apple was to sue another company in Germany and they block releasing product not only in Germany but also in rest of Europe.

Strange law they have got. Germany where carmageddon have dinosaurs rather than people or even Zombies


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## proflayton123 (Jan 10, 2018)

Typical ninty just wanting money out of people


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## wicksand420 (Jan 10, 2018)

proflayton123 said:


> Typical ninty just wanting money out of people


Yeah, I would imagine that Nintendo is fighting to stay alive right now because everybody is stealing all there software, I love nintendo, and have since I was a kid, and I think it is fucked up to steal there shit with one hand and talk shit about them with the other hand. I think when a corporation is pushed into a corner, and has to fight to stay alive, you will see them lash out, this is a taste of things to come.


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## MeowMeowMeow (Jan 10, 2018)

GoldenSun3DS said:


> Fuck Nintendo.


nin here, forget about your golden sun 4.


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## KingVamp (Jan 10, 2018)

Want to point out again, that Nintendo has been sued with seemly the same kind of nonsense. Recently by Gamevice suing over the Switch because of the Wikipad.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 10, 2018)

KingVamp said:


> Want to point out again, that Nintendo has been sued with the seemly the same kind of nonsense. Recently by Gamevice suing over the Switch because of the Wikipad.



Gamevice can fuck a cactus.


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## WhiteMaze (Jan 10, 2018)

Memoir said:


> They're the Apple of gaming..
> 
> Still love my Switch though..



You know what the sad thing is?

The sad thing is that you're *100%* correct. Nintendo *IS* the Apple of the video game world.

It's incredible how much their *actions as companies mirror each other*, everything from a very notorious conservative nature, a lot of times unwilling to adhere to progress like the rest of the world, to the incredibly strict company standards and the way it operates based on a *politic of fear and secretism.
*
Now, Nintendo reminds me even more of the Apple way, by flexing it's muscles and making lawsuits after lawsuits against smaller companies. 

It comes to mind *when Apple filed a patent for rounded corners on smartphones and tablets. Meaning Apple wanted to be the only one to be able to make smartphones and tablets with rounded corners*. Yeh. What a joke.

What a shame. I love Nintendo and their games but I can't be a double standards person. I *hate Apple* for what it stands for, so I just lost a lot of respect for my favorite gaming company..

What a shame Nintendo...what a shame.


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## chrisrlink (Jan 10, 2018)

now I'm hoping the switch gets hacked wide open GO TX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Spectral Blizzard (Jan 10, 2018)

Nintendo for you.
FUCK YEAH!


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## wicksand420 (Jan 10, 2018)

WhiteMaze said:


> You know what the sad thing is?
> 
> The sad thing is that you're *100%* correct. Nintendo *IS* the Apple of the video game world.
> 
> ...


If nintendo was in fact the apple version of the gaming industry, then they would be selling there consoles at ridiculous prices. when the xbox 1 and ps4 came out, they where well over 500 bucks, but the switch, as well as all the other consoles nintendo come out with are reasonably priced on launch.


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## WhiteMaze (Jan 10, 2018)

wicksand420 said:


> If nintendo was in fact the apple version of the gaming industry, then they would be selling there consoles at ridiculous prices. when the xbox 1 and ps4 came out, they where well over 500 bucks, but the switch, as well as all the other consoles nintendo come out with are reasonably priced on launch.



And *heavily outclassed in power and performance* by its rivals from Sony and Microsoft.

The Switch's price was never reasonably priced. That in my eyes is a complete *fallacy*.

It was overpriced for technology that is years old, *precisely like Apple does*.


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## DSAndi (Jan 10, 2018)

The usual Nintendo vs small ppl lawsuit.
I hope they will loose and have to pay 60Mil to Colopl.


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## Deleted User (Jan 10, 2018)

To paraphrase something I heard somewhere (can't quite remember where):

As a game-maker, the people at Nintendo are geniuses.
As a company, the people at Nintendo are pieces of shit.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 10, 2018)

wicksand420 said:


> Yeah, I would imagine that Nintendo is fighting to stay alive right now because everybody is stealing all there software, I love nintendo, and have since I was a kid, and I think it is fucked up to steal there shit with one hand and talk shit about them with the other hand. I think when a corporation is pushed into a corner, and has to fight to stay alive, you will see them lash out, this is a taste of things to come.


Nintendo's not fighting to stay in business. Nintendo has been in business for over 100 years and they're not going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think you get just how much money Nintendo has. They didn't sink even though DS flash cards were around for a long time at cheaper prices than games, they didn't sink even though the Wii was easily hackable, and there aren't nearly as many people pirating 3DS games as people seem to think.


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## wicksand420 (Jan 10, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Nintendo's not fighting to stay in business. Nintendo has been in business for over 100 years and they're not going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think you get just how much money Nintendo has. They didn't sink even though DS flash cards were around for a long time at cheaper prices than games, they didn't sink even though the Wii was easily hackable, and there aren't nearly as many people pirating 3DS games as people seem to think.


you might want to check your math on that "over 100 years" statement, I'd say they have been in business since the early 80's


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## bi388 (Jan 10, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Square Enix probably owns the IP. Nintendo probably only holds the copyright for the SNES version.


That's not my point. My point is it uses a touch screen analogue stick to move with.


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## Deleted User (Jan 10, 2018)

wicksand420 said:


> you might want to check your math on that "over 100 years" statement, I'd say they have been in business since the early 80's


They've been around since the 1800s.  To quote Wikipedia:


> Nintendo was founded as a card company by Fusajiro Yamauchi on 23 September 1889. Based in Kyoto, the business produced and marketed a playing card game called "_Hanafuda_". The handmade cards soon became popular, and Yamauchi hired assistants to mass-produce cards to satisfy demand. In 1949, the company adopted the name Nintendo Karuta Co., Ltd., doing business as The Nintendo Playing Card Co. outside Japan. Nintendo continues to manufacture playing cards in Japan and organizes its own contract bridge tournament called the "Nintendo Cup". The word _Nintendo_ can be translated as "leave luck to heaven", or alternatively as "the temple of free hanafuda".


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## Itachi_hoshigaki (Jan 10, 2018)

Isn't that kind of unfair? I mean, there's a lot of games out there that are LITERALLY using a Mario-like character, Mario-like engine, Mario-like level design, and they go and file a lawsuit because this game uses a freaking emulated Joystick that look like theirs? I love Nintendo, but sometime they're too big of an A-holes in general.


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## Foxi4 (Jan 10, 2018)

This is why the patent process needs to be revised globally. "Touchscreen analog" predates the DS, as does the use of touchscreens in gaming. This isn't something that even should be patentable, it's pretty obvious that if you have a device that uses a touchscreen, you will use the touchscreen, and this includes controlling characters in gaming.


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## wicksand420 (Jan 10, 2018)

jt_1258 said:


>


Opera's going to sue you now.


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## Subtle Demise (Jan 10, 2018)

wicksand420 said:


> Yeah, I would imagine that Nintendo is fighting to stay alive right now because everybody is stealing all there software, I love nintendo, and have since I was a kid, and I think it is fucked up to steal there shit with one hand and talk shit about them with the other hand. I think when a corporation is pushed into a corner, and has to fight to stay alive, you will see them lash out, this is a taste of things to come.


Wat. Nintendo is fine. Even if they actually are losing software sales (the fact that maybe 3 people in the entire world are able to pirate games on the Switch right now says this isn't the case), unlike Sony and Microsoft, they are not taking a loss on the hardware, instead they are staying a generation or two behind so at the least they are able to sell the hardware at a profit.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 10, 2018)

wicksand420 said:


> you might want to check your math on that "over 100 years" statement, I'd say they have been in business since the early 80's


Nintendo has been around since 1889. They weren't making video games, but they were still a business.


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## wicksand420 (Jan 10, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Nintendo has been around since 1889. They weren't making video games, but they were still a business.


Technically they weren't called nintendo untill the 50's, so i would say nintendo hasnt been around for 100 years

In 1949, Hiroshi Yamauchi was attending Waseda University in Tokyo, however, after his grandfather died he left to take office as the president of Nintendo.[5] In 1951, he renamed "Marufuku Co. Ltd." to "Nintendo Playing Card Co., Ltd


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## jumpman17 (Jan 10, 2018)

How is this worthy of a lawsuit but all the apps using Pokemon to sell their app isn't? I don't know how many times I've come across apps that say things like "true Pokemon mobile experience!" and the app icon is literally a Pokeball. Granted the actual game has nothing to do with or look remotely like Pokemon, but still.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 10, 2018)

wicksand420 said:


> Technically they weren't called nintendo untill the 50's, so i would say nintendo hasnt been around for 100 years


It's still the same company so my point is still valid.


jumpman17 said:


> How is this worthy of a lawsuit but all the apps using Pokemon to sell their app isn't? I don't know how many times I've come across apps that say things like "true Pokemon mobile experience!" and the app icon is literally a Pokeball. Granted the actual game has nothing to do with or look remotely like Pokemon, but still.


It would be pretty hard to sue the Chinese developers of those games. Given how much counterfeiting there is there I'm sure copyright and the like isn't much of a big deal.


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## jt_1258 (Jan 10, 2018)

jumpman17 said:


> How is this worthy of a lawsuit but all the apps using Pokemon to sell their app isn't? I don't know how many times I've come across apps that say things like "true Pokemon mobile experience!" and the app icon is literally a Pokeball. Granted the actual game has nothing to do with or look remotely like Pokemon, but still.


woo boy, all the trailers in youtube ads I've seen on youtube that brazenly steel clips from actual pokemon trailers and try to use is for there knock off pkmn game


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## DarthDub (Jan 10, 2018)

There's probably more to this than we know. Maybe that mobile game somehow used source code from Super Mario 64 DS for the controls.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 10, 2018)

Well, now they know how Nintendo feels when some asshole company sues them.


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## Deleted User (Jan 11, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Well, now they know how Nintendo feels when some asshole company sues them.


If you take that attitude towards everything, you'll only bring about pointless pain and conflict.


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## the_randomizer (Jan 11, 2018)

B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> If you take that attitude towards everything, you'll only bring about pointless pain and conflict.



Well, it's true, companies are always suing Nintendo, now they know how Nintendo feels.



B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> So the moral of the story is "if you feel bad about getting bullied, pick on someone small and vulnerable?"



I'm done here.


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## Deleted User (Jan 11, 2018)

the_randomizer said:


> Well, it's true, companies are always suing Nintendo, now they know how Nintendo feels.


So the moral of the story is "if you feel bad about getting bullied, pick on someone small and vulnerable?"


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## Emenaria (Jan 11, 2018)

Colopl stock BTFO xD


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## jt_1258 (Jan 11, 2018)

Emenaria said:


> Colopl stock BTFO xD


oh no


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 11, 2018)

Emenaria said:


> Colopl stock BTFO xD


Now they have *debatably*  reason to sue Nintendo for damages.



DarthDub said:


> There's probably more to this than we know. Maybe that mobile game somehow used source code from Super Mario 64 DS for the controls.


I highly doubt that. Super Mario 64 isn't open source so there would be a lot of reverse engineering. A lot of mobile app SDKs would allow you to have touch screen buttons so programing a touch joystick wouldn't be hard with programing knowledge. This is literally just Nintendo acting shitty because they've been getting sued.


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## Sketchy1 (Jan 11, 2018)

I don't know what surprises me more.

The fact that you can copyright a control scheme
Or the fact that someone is actually trying to sue for it

Let alone the fact that they somehow lost money over this? How in the hell does this cost them any sales or money?


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## FAST6191 (Jan 11, 2018)

Sketchy1 said:


> I don't know what surprises me more.
> 
> The fact that you can copyright a control scheme
> Or the fact that someone is actually trying to sue for it
> ...


It's a patent. To confuse it for a copyright is to such things what saying sega playstation would be around here. Also https://www.gamnesia.com/news/SEGA-...o-and-Sony-Over-Certain-Camera-Features-in-Th and https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=598894

Anyway as ever I find software patents a travesty (Japan and the US are about the only places to support them, everywhere else says software = maths and you can't patent maths).

That said I am struggling to think of prior art. Normally I could fire off a list of them but here I struggle. That said I am not amazingly familiar with palmtop gaming (HP, Sony and more had touchscreen devices for years before the DS came along), though if someone made an effort to port battlezone to it I imagine I would have done a similar thing.

It's still completely obvious (analogue responses to distance moved) to anybody vaguely versed in control design. Going to have to look up when my drawing tablet was created as it has relative and absolute modes, has a scroll mode and respects speed. Unless they are going to try for something really cute like saying "for a game" or "has a graphical overlay" then that probably goes to both prior art and obviousness. Ebay listing for the similar device says 2005 on the box ( https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Serif-Br...940296?hash=item2136995948:g:CmYAAOSw8i9aU-kF ) which is the year after game's release, never mind filing date for patent but that was a later model and there are ps/2 ones.

With all that though then while I can do English speaking countries + Europe as far as dissing patents goes I am less familiar with what I need to do for Japan. Going to have to return to this when it is not 3am and having had a crash course in Japanese patent law.


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## ertaboy356b (Jan 11, 2018)

Sketchy1 said:


> I don't know what surprises me more.
> 
> The fact that you can copyright a control scheme
> Or the fact that someone is actually trying to sue for it
> ...



Well if you can copyright the shape of the phone and the word "react", then why not?


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## Deleted User (Jan 11, 2018)

i hope ninty loses


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## anhminh (Jan 11, 2018)

On one hand, we have a big company pick on smaller company. On the other hand, we have quality game company pick on a free2play mobage company.

Since I hate f2p garbage more than capitalism so I will be on Ninty side this time.

Oh, and the joystick are just one of 5 charges, maybe they just add it in for more charges pressure instead of actually pursuit it.


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## 330 (Jan 11, 2018)

jumpman17 said:


> How is this worthy of a lawsuit but all the apps using Pokemon to sell their app isn't? I don't know how many times I've come across apps that say things like "true Pokemon mobile experience!" and the app icon is literally a Pokeball. Granted the actual game has nothing to do with or look remotely like Pokemon, but still.


It's very likely that those apps get C&D letters before anything happens. The article says that they've been negotiating privately for a year before suing.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WiiUBricker said:


> Details are lacking since the lawsuit is fresh and everything official is in Japanese, but it is speculated Nintendo may be referring to the emulated analogue stick used in _Super Mario 64 DS_ as an optional control method.
> 
> View attachment 110881


By the way, I don't think that speculations like this should be part of news.


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## chrisrlink (Jan 11, 2018)

Sony was only bad bout when cfw first started on the ps3 -cough- Geohotz -cough- I haven't heard of any rumblings of lawsuits since then.....odd


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## Subtle Demise (Jan 11, 2018)

Nintendo would have to sue every developer for 80-90% of any action game on the Play Store and the Apple app store. Not to mention any emulators (even the ones that aren't emulating Nintendo consoles) that use an emulated joystick. Shit, I'd like to see them just try to sue Google or Apple and go bankrupt.

For what it's worth, the touchscreen joystick emulation was annoying as hell in SM64DS and I ended up just using the D-pad. With the DS D-pad being as terrible as it is, my hand cramped up and I didn't play much more than an hour of the game, and so the feature wasn't really worth patenting in the first place.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 11, 2018)

Sketchy1 said:


> I don't know what surprises me more.
> 
> The fact that you can copyright a control scheme
> Or the fact that someone is actually trying to sue for it
> ...


Bad publicity and coverage lowers share prices. No idea how it works though, maybe investors pull out and shareholders sell their stock making the value go down.


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## Subtle Demise (Jan 11, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> Sony was only bad bout when cfw first started on the ps3 -cough- Geohotz -cough- I haven't heard of any rumblings of lawsuits since then.....odd


He only got in trouble for leaking encryption keys. I personally feel however that randomly generated letters and numbers shouldn't be able to be copyrighted.


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## Spider_Man (Jan 11, 2018)

fuck nintendo, they have the nerve to attack small companies for using the same idea.

well fuck a duck and come back quacking, everything nintendo do is based off old inferior tech that has already been used.

ohh please let the company that did the morphus x300 take nintendo to court for not only stealing the same idea, but even basically copying its same design and features. hell let all the other tablets.


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## Garro (Jan 11, 2018)

Despise I hope for Nintendo's success in general, I do agree this lawsuit is ridiculous.

But then again, it's not the first nor the last time bit companies sue or get sued for the most dumbest patents registered, which just bring the point that the current patenting system is not working. (I still faintly remember a lawsuit from Apple's patent of "circled edges" on devices).


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 11, 2018)

none of you know what they sue against specifically, yet you all hate on nintendo.

its just as with everything else, they have a patent and they will lose it unless they defend it. clearly, this time there is  good reason to do so. what if it turns out they actually took code from sm64ds?


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## Sketchy1 (Jan 11, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> none of you know what they sue against specifically, yet you all hate on nintendo.
> 
> its just as with everything else, they have a patent and they will lose it unless they defend it. clearly, this time there is  good reason to do so. what if it turns out they actually took code from sm64ds?


I might not know a lot, but i think that would actually constitute a lawsuit for copyright issues, considering they own the copyrights to all their code. This specific case is a patent issue.

Unless I'm mistaken though, i thought copyright refers to protection for An expression of an idea (like computer games, paintings, songs) and a patent is a government given authorization that absolutely no one can use your invention at all, including the expression of it, without your permission at all. In a way, it could be considered a temporary monopoly for your invention.
That being said, Nintendo is saying that they practically invented that joystick (in japan) 

At least this is what I'm getting out of it


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## Haloman800 (Jan 11, 2018)

Bubsy Bobcat said:


> fuckin' capitalism. gotta try to suck money out of smaller companies because you're not rich enough.


Capitalism is the reason we have Nintendo consoles, commie.


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## k-key (Jan 11, 2018)

Retroboy said:


> fuck nintendo, they have the nerve to attack small companies for using the same idea.
> 
> well fuck a duck and come back quacking, everything nintendo do is based off old inferior tech that has already been used.
> 
> ohh please let the company that did the morphus x300 take nintendo to court for not only stealing the same idea, but even basically copying its same design and features. hell let all the other tablets.



Again this story? Stop spreading lies.
Nintendo did *NOT* copies/based anything from the Morphus. The Morphus application patent is from 2015 while Nintendo had Switch prototypes in early 2014. I can't post links so google "freepatentsonline" and search "AIKUN (CHINA) ELECTRONICS COMPANY (Shenzhen, CN)". Then google "japanesenintendo 168891059724".

Stop being such a troll.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 11, 2018)

k-key said:


> Again this story? Stop spreading lies.
> Nintendo did *NOT* copies/based anything from the Morphus. The Morphus application patent is from 2015 while Nintendo had Switch prototypes in early 2014. I can't post links so google "freepatentsonline" and search "AIKUN (CHINA) ELECTRONICS COMPANY (Shenzhen, CN)". Then google "japanesenintendo 168891059724".
> 
> Stop being such a troll.


The Switch had a ton of different patents though, and that still doesn't change the fact that it's a tablet, meaning that if Nintendo is suing over a touch screen joystick then it's fair Apple, Google, Samsung, Sony, and whoever else makes tablets to sue Nintendo for using a tablet design for the Switch.


Clydefrosch said:


> none of you know what they sue against specifically, yet you all hate on nintendo.
> 
> its just as with everything else, they have a patent and they will lose it unless they defend it. clearly, this time there is  good reason to do so. what if it turns out they actually took code from sm64ds?


And how exactly would they do that with a closed source game? I really doubt they reverse engineered Super Mario 64 DS enough that they actually got the code for the analog stick on the touch screen.

It wouldn't be that hard for someone who can program to make touch buttons with an SDK designed for making mobile apps. So the chances that they used SM64DS code is almost 0%.

We didn't see the manufacturers for arcade parts or Atari (for including joysticks on consoles) suing Nintendo for using an analog stick on the N64. And if they have it hasn't been pursued in mentioned in a very long time.

I hope this company sues Nintendo and wins. They have much more grounds for a lawsuit here actually. The fact that Nintendo waited so long and hasn't been going after everyone else already means that they weren't defending the patent, which I guarantee wasn't infringed on because these touch joysticks are different from the big ass circle you drag on SM64 DS. This company however has seen a 20% decrease in share price and will probably be getting negative news coverage meaning they could sue for damages and claim something defamation.

Nintendo's obviously in the wrong here.


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## Clydefrosch (Jan 11, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> The Switch had a ton of different patents though, and that still doesn't change the fact that it's a tablet, meaning that if Nintendo is suing over a touch screen joystick then it's fair Apple, Google, Samsung, Sony, and whoever else makes tablets to sue Nintendo for using a tablet design for the Switch.
> 
> And how exactly would they do that with a closed source game? I really doubt they reverse engineered Super Mario 64 DS enough that they actually got the code for the analog stick on the touch screen.
> 
> ...



thats for judges to decide.
you can be sure that its not just because they used a run of the mill 'touch analog stick'. because if that was the case, it would've been a whole flock of lawsuits.
its not like its a random nintendo employe who filed this suit, but a lawyer. someone with a degree who looked into it and saw an actual case.

in addition, they talk of a number of violations, meaning there's more than the joystick


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 11, 2018)

Clydefrosch said:


> thats for judges to decide.
> you can be sure that its not just because they used a run of the mill 'touch analog stick'. because if that was the case, it would've been a whole flock of lawsuits.
> its not like its a random nintendo employe who filed this suit, but a lawyer. someone with a degree who looked into it and saw an actual case.
> 
> in addition, they talk of a number of violations, meaning there's more than the joystick


It's probably an in-house attorney filing the lawsuit, and the degree really doesn't matter since it makes them no less likely to represent a frivolous lawsuit. This is also not a criminal offense, it's infringement, so it's not as open and shut as if somebody committed assault or theft.

It doesn't matter that there weren't a flood of lawsuits either. It's pretty suspicious that Nintendo waited a long time and is only suing now after they've been sued a few times.

There's also the fact that people can apply to patent and copyright whatever they want, meaning that there could be tons of similar patents already, or they could just patent whatever. Whether or not the patent can actually be enforced is also important. Like apple trying to patent rounded edges on phones. It's ridiculous and I doubt it's enforceable.

Like a lot of other people seem to think I agree that this is Nintendo trying to seem powerful or just get money after they've been sued. $40 million is ridiculous anyway since they were only sued for $10 million about the Wii Remote.


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## Tony_93 (Jan 12, 2018)

I see everybody whining "Nintendo suing for a digital analog, how could they, clearly a bunch of bullies, hope they loose, no respect for them anymore, wahh, wahhh, wahhhhh" 

Did you guys ever stopped and thought for a second that this digital analog might be using Nintendp's propietary code and that could be the reason for the lawsuit? Easier to bandwagon when we don't know the facts I guess...


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 12, 2018)

Tony_93 said:


> I see everybody whining "Nintendo suing for a digital analog, how could they, clearly a bunch of bullies, hope they loose, no respect for them anymore, wahh, wahhh, wahhhhh"
> 
> Did you guys ever stopped and thought for a second that this digital analog might be using Nintendp's propietary code and that could be the reason for the lawsuit? Easier to bandwagon when we don't know the facts I guess...


Except that Nintendo's games are all closed source and it would cost more and take more time to allocate people to reverse engineering the game than it would to program an on screen joystick. I'm sure a lot of mobile game SDKs would make it really simple to make on screen buttons that would control movement and actions, so they wouldn't even need to steal the code.

Nintendo wouldn't be able to tell if they had used the code without reverse engineering the game anyway, which could land them in hot water as well.

Besides you have no right to criticize people for criticizing Nintendo here since you can't back up what you're suggesting.


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## DarthDub (Jan 12, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Except that Nintendo's games are all closed source and it would cost more and take more time to allocate people to reverse engineering the game than it would to program an on screen joystick. I'm sure a lot of mobile game SDKs would make it really simple to make on screen buttons that would control movement and actions, so they wouldn't even need to steal the code.
> 
> Nintendo wouldn't be able to tell if they had used the code without reverse engineering the game anyway, which could land them in hot water as well.
> 
> Besides you have no right to criticize people for criticizing Nintendo here since you can't back up what you're suggesting.


Have you ever thought that maybe someone in that company used to work for Nintendo? Just food for thought.


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## zoogie (Jan 12, 2018)

Colopl better have nuts the size of King Kong to face off against the Big N in court and if the judge says, "Show me the receipts", they had better be ready.

I applaud anyone that caught my reference.


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## YugamiSekai (Jan 12, 2018)

I hope Nintendo wins


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## Tony_93 (Jan 12, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> Except that Nintendo's games are all closed source and it would cost more and take more time to allocate people to reverse engineering the game than it would to program an on screen joystick. I'm sure a lot of mobile game SDKs would make it really simple to make on screen buttons that would control movement and actions, so they wouldn't even need to steal the code.
> 
> Nintendo wouldn't be able to tell if they had used the code without reverse engineering the game anyway, which could land them in hot water as well.
> 
> *Besides you have no right to criticize people for criticizing Nintendo here since you can't back up what you're suggesting.*



Wait... Are you really telling me that I have no right to criticize people because I can't backup my suggestions, yet the people I'm criticizing can criticize Nintendo without backing up their claims?...


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## Spider_Man (Jan 12, 2018)

k-key said:


> Again this story? Stop spreading lies.
> Nintendo did *NOT* copies/based anything from the Morphus. The Morphus application patent is from 2015 while Nintendo had Switch prototypes in early 2014. I can't post links so google "freepatentsonline" and search "AIKUN (CHINA) ELECTRONICS COMPANY (Shenzhen, CN)". Then google "japanesenintendo 168891059724".
> 
> Stop being such a troll.


yea nintendo filed many, it was later when the switch design came, ironic.

but you chose what you like, nintendo tried copying the tablet market with the wii u..... ohh wait your going to claim it was patented first before tablets came.

point being, did nintendo invent touch screen, did nintendo invent the button, did nintendo invent the analogue, did nintendo.... now nintendo want to sue a small dev for having a touch screen control, well fuck a duck.

unless its code is a direct mirror of ninteno's shitty DS code, then yea, but not because it is the same concept.


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## k-key (Jan 12, 2018)

Retroboy said:


> yea nintendo presentato molti, it was later when the switch design came, ironic.
> 
> but you chose what you like, nintendo tried copying the tablet market with the wii u..... ohh wait your going to claim it was patented first before tablets came.
> 
> ...



Did you read what I told you to look for or are you trolling on purpose?
I DID NOT CHOOSE ANYTHING and there is nothing ironic. You're wrong about Morphus PERIOD

I didn't mention the Wii U concept or anything, the rest of your post is a delirium in broken english to divert attention to the fact that you are wrong and a troll.

Moderation in this site does not work.


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## zeveroth (Jan 12, 2018)

This doesn't seem to out of place for Nintendo, seeing as people are always ripping their stuff off any way.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 12, 2018)

We seem to be speculating now, though still fairly on topic which is impressive.

Given however the spotty nature of most Japanese translations in game world and the general lack of knowledge of IP law... everywhere I think it is time for primary sources. I tried my best and only found the Japanese mirrors of this story, and if they link anything it is just the statement from the defendants. No patent numbers I can look up and I am not going to spend a Friday evening trying to find a potentially relevant one. Likewise the defendants appear to be quite big in Japan and are seldom out of the news there for more than a couple of days.

I did however find https://gamebiz.jp/?p=167880 which makes me wonder if Japanese software/game patents are worse than the US ones (an impressive feat if so).

For the time being I am going to have to wonder if this is one of those "go hard at the start" things that lawyers are so fond of and can then be removed as part of negotiations later.


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## RedBlueGreen (Jan 12, 2018)

Tony_93 said:


> Wait... Are you really telling me that I have no right to criticize people because I can't backup my suggestions, yet the people I'm criticizing can criticize Nintendo without backing up their claims?...


You can't bitch at other people if you're going to do the exact same thing. You're the one who started complaining about other people doing it, nobody was complaining at you, so you can't criticize other people while also saying things that can't be backed up. If you're going to say stuff that can't be backed up, don't bitch at other people for doing the same.


FAST6191 said:


> For the time being I am going to have to wonder if this is one of those "go hard at the start" things that lawyers are so fond of and can then be removed as part of negotiations later.


That could very well be, but they should be more reasonable because if this went to trial they're going to lose a lot of credibility for having such ridiculous demands.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 12, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> That could very well be, but they should be more reasonable because if this went to trial they're going to lose a lot of credibility for having such ridiculous demands.



Is it a ridiculous demand? I can see something like this existing in a US software patent (despite it being at least obvious, probably also a bit of prior art but I am still working on that) and that article I linked in the previous post has me believing Japan is no better*. To that end if they have a valid patent and reckon they can claim infringement then while intellectually a judge might want to tell them to grow up they still have to go through the motions..
If it turns out the patent gets destroyed then big whoop (have you seen the Mario 64 DS control scheme used by them much of late?). Also it was 2004 that SM64DS hit so assuming it was filed that year then as Japanese patent terms are 20 years then they are losing out on 6 whole years at worst if it is invalidated.

*if the example about the battle system is "ripped from the headlines" (it is one of Square Enix's legal team talking to devs in a proper Japanese game developer conference) then yeah.


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## Ethan34 (Jan 12, 2018)

WiiUBricker said:


> View attachment 110880
> 
> Colopl is a Japanese mobile game company that has been running _Shiro Neko Project_, a pretty successful Action-RPG, since 2014 in Japan. The game was marketed as a true "one-finger RPG", allowing players, as the name suggests, to play the game with one finger. It uses an emulated analogue stick to accomplish tasks such as moving the character, attacking and using skills.
> 
> ...


this the stupid because the many games are using this type of controls... and in facts even other game f the nitendo boys are using this method of the controll, such as bayosnetta on wii u... so not suing the platinum game sir? and why not sue&desist mr sony and mr xbone because they have the dpads control on their controllers?


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## DarthDub (Jan 12, 2018)

Ethan34 said:


> this the stupid because the many games are using this type of controls... and in facts even other game f the nitendo boys are using this method of the controll, such as bayosnetta on wii u... so not suing the platinum game sir? and why not sue&desist mr sony and mr xbone because they have the dpads control on their controllers?


Cause it's not on a touch screen. Please reread the thread before commenting.


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## Ethan34 (Jan 12, 2018)

DarthDub said:


> Cause it's not on a touch screen. Please reread the thread before commenting.


bayonetta uses touch screen controls like dpad; and nintendo actually owns the physical dpad patent if i recall properly


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## Axido (Jan 12, 2018)

Quality journalism:
"The information is there, but it's in Japanese, so nobody will ever know."

Shouldn't be too much of a task to get a translation. That said I'll get back to my Kanji recognition training.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 12, 2018)

Ethan34 said:


> bayonetta uses touch screen controls like dpad; and nintendo actually owns the physical dpad patent if i recall properly


The dpad stuff expired in 2005 (though there may have some some other things that lingered).

Anyway we are still lacking patent numbers so we can pull them up to see what is being claimed, to that end I will have to go more general.

Most places in the world have patents. Originally they were designed for real world inventions that worked (so no perpetual motion machines), were novel (which is to say have not been done before) and were non obvious to someone versed in a field but more on that in a bit. Later in life the US and Japan gained the ability to patent software which most of the rest of the world finds horrific and opposes at a fundamental level (software is just maths and you can not patent maths, can copyright software though). They exist though so we get to consider them.

If what the speculation on the opening post/sources say then mobile company infringed upon something Nintendo has a patent for and was seen in Mario 64 DS. For those that have not seen it the touch screen is pressed, at the point of pressing a circle is displayed and that circle acts as something of an analogue stick representation (more further from the initial press point and it corresponds to more movement on the virtual analogue stick). Let go and press somewhere else and a new virtual stick is made.

Normally when I am trying to call a patent nonsense I look for prior art as I find it easiest. That is to say examples of it happening before the patent was filed. I am troubled here as the DS popularised the touch screen in games (I would say it was an inevitability but different discussion for another thread) so there are not too many examples of such things before 2004 when SM64DS hit. There were touch screen devices -- they used to be called palmtop computers, pocket electronic organisers and similar such things. HP had a range of palmtops, Sony had one called the clie and plenty of others existed. 
If a computing device exists it probably has games on it (I have an old 2003 HP thing I got given and it has a wonderful version of solitaire on it) and thus we have something to look for. I don't however know much of what goes here. One of the earliest 3d games was Battlezone (if you have seen a game with a wireframe 3d tank then it was probably that) and for a while it got ported to/remade on everything under the sun. If any game used some kind of relative motion in that then it gets hard for Nintendo.
Alternatively my drawing tablet from a similar era has the ability to do something similar -- they tend to call it relative mode and absolute mode.
Alternatively anything like a mouse gesture would also be something I argue. http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=3908 for a 2003 thread on the matter and talking about earlier things still.

If I can't do prior art then I would look at obviousness. I fail to see how any UI designer would only have set analogue movement to the middle/some fixed point of the screen. Indeed looking at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iNSQIyNpVGHeak6isbP6AHdHD50gs8MNXF1GCf08efg/pub?embedded=true there are some very old games indeed that consider position of actor on the screen.

There are further things we could look at but I don't know the specifics of Japanese law here. For an example of UK law as a kind of example of the ways things can go then https://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-property/defences-to-patent-infringement/


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## Tony_93 (Jan 13, 2018)

RedBlueGreen said:


> You can't bitch at other people if you're going to do the exact same thing. You're the one who started complaining about other people doing it, nobody was complaining at you, so you can't criticize other people while also saying things that can't be backed up. If you're going to say stuff that can't be backed up, don't bitch at other people for doing the same.


And who are to decide what I can and can't do again?... Oh yeah, no one ...


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## KingVamp (Jan 13, 2018)

Did we just get to the point of complainers complaining about complainers complaining about complainers?


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## Sketchy1 (Jan 13, 2018)

Tony_93 said:


> And who are to decide what I can and can't do again?... Oh yeah, no one ...


In a much nicer way, hes just saying its just a tad hypocritical considering even in the OP, most of it isnt backed up with 100% concrete info anyway


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## Ryccardo (Jan 13, 2018)

Subtle Demise said:


> He only got in trouble for leaking encryption keys. I personally feel however that randomly generated letters and numbers shouldn't be able to be copyrighted.


They aren't; however the DMCA (which despite its name, has only tangentially to do with real copyright, focussing instead on other anti-consumer measures) forbids stuff that "defeats or bypasses an 'effective' protection system" and Geohot happened to be an American doing stuff in the USA, said stuff being high profile, qualifiable as the above definition, and inconvenient to a megacorp



Clydefrosch said:


> they have a patent and they will lose it unless they defend it.


Only trademarks work that way (as it usually happens for romhacks or originally developed fangames that get too big)



KingVamp said:


> Did we just get to the point of complainers complaining about complainers complaining about complainers?


https://xkcd.com/1220/


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## YuseiFD (Jan 14, 2018)

Copyright of Ideas needs to die asap.


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## Yepi69 (Jan 14, 2018)

I guess the Switch isn't getting them the amount of money they were expecting


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## WiiUBricker (Jan 14, 2018)

Axido said:


> Quality journalism:
> "The information is there, but it's in Japanese, so nobody will ever know."


Except it isn’t. Stop making stuff up for a quick troll attempt and pay more attention to what was written.


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## FAST6191 (Jan 14, 2018)

YuseiFD said:


> Copyright of Ideas needs to die asap.


Except it seems this is a patent case. Unless you are making an argument that patenting of software is tantamount to copyright of ideas, in which case tell me more.


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## Axido (Jan 14, 2018)

WiiUBricker said:


> Except it isn’t. Stop making stuff up for a quick troll attempt and pay more attention to what was written.



The OP sure seems different now from what I read earlier. 

Just kidding, though what about the lawsuit being in Japanese? Maybe I didn't understand that correctly, but that's what I referred to.


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## WiiUBricker (Jan 14, 2018)

Axido said:


> The OP sure seems different now from what I read earlier.
> 
> Just kidding, though what about the lawsuit being in Japanese? Maybe I didn't understand that correctly, but that's what I referred to.


Again, pay more attention. The date of your post was yesterday. The last edit date of the OP was wednesday.

The document provided from Colopl is in japanese which has been google translated minutes after the OP was posted and proven to not contain anything new. I at least considered the possibility that the document may provide new information unlike other news outlets that chose to completely ignore it.


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## Deleted User (Jan 16, 2018)

Might be worth noting a patent only applies in the country it is filed. The company could be infringing a patent that Nintendo has only filed in Japan.


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## Gizametalman (Jan 17, 2018)

Makes no sense to me.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 17, 2018)

Snugglevixen said:


> Might be worth noting a patent only applies in the country it is filed. The company could be infringing a patent that Nintendo has only filed in Japan.


Has anymore information come to light as to what this patent or infringement is?


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## FAST6191 (Jan 17, 2018)

Snugglevixen said:


> Might be worth noting a patent only applies in the country it is filed. The company could be infringing a patent that Nintendo has only filed in Japan.


While in this case it probably is just Japan that is tricky.
Many places will have international filing options. Europe tends to have individual states with their own patents for their own countries but there is also the European patent office which covers lots. Australia and New Zealand have something ( https://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/abou...torney-regulatory-regime-new-zealand-commence ) and there are some similar arrangements the world over between closely related countries.
Technically there is also an international filing option of a sort called the PCT but that is weak enough/hard enough to pull off to ignore it here. Going further there are all sorts of international laws regarding filing dates and how things might get backdated.


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## YuseiFD (Jan 17, 2018)

FAST6191 said:


> Except it seems this is a patent case. Unless you are making an argument that patenting of software is tantamount to copyright of ideas, in which case tell me more.


I have no idea how to explain this, but in this case, nintendo is doing the old "i did it first hurr!!!!1!!11!!1" case.


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