# 3DS XL Circle Pad Pro Expansion coming this year



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

3DS XL does not have a second Circle Pad. Not yet, at least.

Nintendo will be offering a 3DS XL version of the Circle Pad Pro some time this year. The company revealed plans for the accessory in a Q&A about the 3DS XL that appeared in Famitsu this week (you can view a sample page from the Q&A at Famitsu.com).
http://andriasang.co..._pad_expansion/

They couldn't have just added a second circle-pad to the XL to begin with? Fucking Nintendo.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> They couldn't have just added a second circle-pad to the XL to begin with? Fucking Nintendo.


Then they couldn't make tons of money.


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## Brian117 (Jun 28, 2012)

Can't wait to see what this next gimmick will look like. It'll probably be the size of a damn book.


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## KingVamp (Jun 28, 2012)

Oh wow... I didn't know what to say. 

That battery better be filling a lot of room when it comes to breaking it down. The rage if there is room. 

Hopefully it is a controller and not a slide pad attachment.

At this point, I'll wait for the 3DS XL Pro. :/


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> That battery better be filling a lot of room when it comes to breaking it down. The rage if there is room.


Well obviously there is room.


This is just greedy fucking Nintendo.


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## Snailface (Jun 28, 2012)

This is beyond my understanding...

It'll be the size of a dinner plate.


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## Deleted User (Jun 28, 2012)

Maybe my hands wont cramp, People make fun of the circle pad, but I have really huge hands.
The normal 3ds hurts to hold, I'm forced to used the KId Icarus stand.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

Snailface said:


> This is beyond my understanding...
> 
> It'll be the size of a surfboard.


If Nintendo was smart (and greedy), they would have planned for this so the CPP XL shouldn't be as big.


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## TheDarkSeed (Jun 28, 2012)

Why don't they just add a mouse and keyboard while they're at it?


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## BORTZ (Jun 28, 2012)

this makes me incredibly sad


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## pokefloote (Jun 28, 2012)

Damn, I came into this topic wanting to lol at maybe a preview picture or diagram.
I'm so sorry for all the left handed players...


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> Snailface said:
> 
> 
> > This is beyond my understanding...
> ...



Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan moan. I'm sorry, but unless you work with Nintendo or your a stock investor in theirs and shit, you don't know any of the reasons behind anything they do.

Anyways, this is pretty cool. A great way to not cut your userbase in half and shit. Still don't wanna get one because I find that there isn't anything much worth having the second pad for. I just want the XL and Kingdom Hearts on it


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan moan. I'm sorry, but unless you work with Nintendo or your a stock investor in theirs and shit, you don't know any of the reasons behind anything they do.
> 
> Anyways, this is pretty cool. A great way to not cut your userbase in half and shit. Still don't wanna get one because I find that there isn't anything much worth having the second pad for. I just want the XL and Kingdom Hearts on it


Speculation blah blah.


And to call this great just makes you seem like a Nintendo apologist.
They had the space to put it on the system.
It couldn't fragment the userbase because devs would make two control-schemes.
This is just them being greedy.


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## gamefan5 (Jun 28, 2012)

I can't wait to see the size of it. XD


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan moan. I'm sorry, but unless you work with Nintendo or your a stock investor in theirs and shit, you don't know any of the reasons behind anything they do.
> ...



Maybe it's the devs who didn't want it. Seriously, you saying them greedy is no different than me saying this is a good way to not cut the users in half.


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## Icealote (Jun 28, 2012)

Bigger is better is Ninty's motto this year.


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## chavosaur (Jun 28, 2012)

Im wondering if it will be a circle pad pro like the original shitastic one, or if nyko will develop the same circle pad/battery trippler for the xl.


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## The Catboy (Jun 28, 2012)

Why wasn't it just built into the system to begin with?
Nintendo what are you doing?


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## mrtofu (Jun 28, 2012)

deleted


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## VMM (Jun 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Maybe it's the devs who didn't want it. Seriously, you saying them greedy is no different than me saying this is a good way to not cut the users in half.



You're putting this fault on the devs?!
C'mon you are not paid to kiss Nintendo ass!


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## Justin121994 (Jun 28, 2012)

Does it at least have better cameras? I mean come on, the ones on the 3ds suck.


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## Midna (Jun 28, 2012)

The Catboy said:


> Why wasn't it just built into the system to begin with?
> Nintendo what are you doing?


The only reason the CPP exists is because Capcom demanded it for Monster Hunter. Nintendo hasn't advertised it one bit, and it's only being sold at one retailer. Nintendo just doesn't give a fuck about dual analog on the 3DS.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

VMM said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's the devs who didn't want it. Seriously, you saying them greedy is no different than me saying this is a good way to not cut the users in half.
> ...



Don't twist words around.


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## VMM (Jun 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Don't twist words around.



This is not the first time you blame the devs
Nintendo had plenty space to put a 2nd analog on 3DS XL
Devs make control schemes in order for you not need to use a 2nd analog

3DS not being released with a 2nd analog was already Nintendo's fault
Having XL not released with the 2nd analog is even more fault
This looks greedyness at it's finest


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## p1ngpong (Jun 28, 2012)

Well at the very least Nintendo were considerate enough to put the stylus slot on the right hand side of the 3DS XL. So a CPP XL will more than likely cover it up and restrict access to it once again. At least we have that.


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## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

VMM said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Don't twist words around.
> ...



What other time have I blamed the devs? You mean when I said that the devs could easily fix a camera thing? I didn't blame the devs this time, so again, don't twist words around. I said that for all we know, it could have been them that didn't want a second analog because then they'd have to do extra work putting in two control schemes.


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## DiscostewSM (Jun 28, 2012)

Having the room under the hood has nothing to do with the actual integration of an additional circle pad. People also forget that the CPP includes shoulder buttons.


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## chemistryfreak (Jun 28, 2012)

Midna said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Why wasn't it just built into the system to begin with?
> ...



Well, I play MH3G but I don't use the CPP at all. I know many MH3G players who also don't use the CPP. Just using the touch screen alone is enough.
The 3DS XL alone is big enough, with the CPP XL...it will become 3DS XXL!


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## Gaiaknight (Jun 28, 2012)

woot now i dont have to worry about how i was gonna play resident evil and metal gear solid


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## MelodieOctavia (Jun 28, 2012)

Well, I saw this coming from a mile away. P1ngpong, be sure to do comparison pics with the game gear this time. I think we might have a new contender.


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## Hells Malice (Jun 28, 2012)

CPP XL is going to be like strapping a brick to your 3DS XL.

As big as one, and about as useful as one as well.


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## chemistryfreak (Jun 28, 2012)

To be honest, I don't think there is a huge demand for a 2nd circle pad on the 3DS. There aren't many games out there that actually uses 2 circle pads.
If I am not wrong only MH3G, RE:R & Kid Icarus uses the 2nd circle pad. Plus these games actually offer the 2nd circle pad as an optional control option.


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## MelodieOctavia (Jun 28, 2012)

chemistryfreak said:


> To be honest, I don't think there is a huge demand for a 2nd circle pad on the 3DS. There aren't many games out there that actually uses 2 circle pads.
> If I am not wrong only MH3G, RE:R & Kid Icarus uses the 2nd circle pad. Plus these games actually offer the 2nd circle pad as an optional control option.



It's a chicken and egg conundrum. No one gives a shit about the CPP because there are no games that support it, and devs don't want to make games that support the CPP because no one gives a shit about it.


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## dgwillia (Jun 28, 2012)

TwinRetro said:


> chemistryfreak said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest, I don't think there is a huge demand for a 2nd circle pad on the 3DS. There aren't many games out there that actually uses 2 circle pads.
> ...



Quick! Everyone give shits!


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## Midna (Jun 28, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> CPP XL is going to be like strapping a brick to your 3DS XL.
> 
> As big as one, and about as useful as one as well.


No, it'll be like strapping a bit of extra brick to your brick


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## Deleted User (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan moan. I'm sorry, but unless you work with Nintendo or your a stock investor in theirs and shit, you don't know any of the reasons behind anything they do.
> ...


Here is what you don't understand, If they were to put a 2'ND pad on the 3DSa, It would alienate the people that already had a normal 3DS, It fucks over people and forces them to update, Its a VERY bad idea.


And seriously, What is wrong with a company trying to make money, nobody is forcing you to buy it.


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## The Milkman (Jun 28, 2012)

Aw man. Not this second circle pad shit. Nintendo clearly cant find enough fucks to give about it, its pretty much never happening, why must it still be a thing? The PSP scene got over it.


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## indask8 (Jun 28, 2012)

I actually liked the original CPP on my 3DS, especially for playing RE-R.

But if they don't offer more games supporting it (or update games to support it via patches) there's no point for me to buy the new one.


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## Nah3DS (Jun 28, 2012)

Midna said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Why wasn't it just built into the system to begin with?
> ...


THIS ^


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## RupeeClock (Jun 28, 2012)

Everyone seems to forget that the CPP adds two shoulder buttons as well.
I can see an obvious place for a second analogue on the 3DS XL, but not two more shoulder buttons.


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## ferofax (Jun 28, 2012)

Midna said:


> The Catboy said:
> 
> 
> > Why wasn't it just built into the system to begin with?
> ...


This. Really, just because a platform does not have a second analog stick does not mean it HAS TO. Granted, Nintendo considered adding it in its planning stages, but the fact that it was scrapped means they couldn't care less about something that a Sony console pioneered--they'd much rather work with something THEY pioneered.

Of course, seeing as they really wanted to make third-party partnership work, they gave in to Capcom and compromised--hence the CPP.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 28, 2012)

Hoping this backfires and blows up in Nintendo's   face.


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## Deleted User (Jun 28, 2012)

Hyro-Sama said:


> Hoping this backfires and blows up in Nintendo's   face.


10 million units sold later...


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## Pong20302000 (Jun 28, 2012)

brandonspikes said:


> Hyro-Sama said:
> 
> 
> > Hoping this backfires and blows up in Nintendo's   face.
> ...



well im glad there no extra circle pad on teh device

you dont need it for all games

so i like the CPP as i only use it for kid icarus

so i will only need the CPPXL for that game and maybe others in future

all other times it sits to the side


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## chris888222 (Jun 28, 2012)

Dont forget that

If a dual analog is added for the XL, that would make the CPP a compulsory item as many devs will definitely utilize it.

It will blast early adopters again.


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## LAA (Jun 28, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> brandonspikes said:
> 
> 
> > Hyro-Sama said:
> ...



Why wouldnt you want it on it? I doubt it'd mean the cost would like be added by much, ha ha, and even if it was, I think most people would prefer it built into 3DS anyway, instead of having to carry 2 things around. It'd just be there when you needed it or not. Just cause "Most games dont use it", doesnt mean they should abandon it. They made the peripheal, so they have a need to support it, they're really just screwing us off by not including, so they can charge us £20 for this ability. Its a litle laughable how they try and make it seem its not neccessary. Of course they are semi right, but its just a kinda loop hole they can use to get around not including it. As soon as 1 game releases which NEEDS the CPP though, nintendo should implement it, but even then, they'll probably just change the box to say "CPP needed." (Which they'd probably have to do for the older 3DS's anyway.)

Its just ridiculously stupid of nintendo to have not added it on. Now when I want to play KH3D with 2 analogues, (If I had an XL), It would be A MONSTER.
I think the next 3DS is probably what I want more, (As long as it include a CPP that is). I dont see much temptation in this, other than a bigger screen, better home/start/select. It seemed they havent really done anything for this really, its apparently all the same components for the most of it, just a slightly different design. I wouldnt even mind any of it, if the UK werent over charged for it, $199 in US, £180 most places here. I'm not an idiot, I'm being over charged and they actually GET a charger too. Why is it they gave us a reason they're not including a charger to save on costs, yet its somehow more expensive?


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## Pong20302000 (Jun 28, 2012)

LAA said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > brandonspikes said:
> ...



CPP isnt needed for Kingdom hearts
ive played it fien just on a normal 3DS

UK is more expenicve because the tax is 20%

also the UK alot of people already have chargers

but there only £7.99 if you want a charger so not a biggie


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## RupeeClock (Jun 28, 2012)

chris888222 said:


> Dont forget that
> 
> If a dual analog is added for the XL, that would make the CPP a compulsory item as many devs will definitely utilize it.
> 
> It will blast early adopters again.


We've basically been through all this shit before with the PSP, tons of people asking why it doesn't have dual analogues in all the revisions received.
It's not something you should add to the system after its release, it's like releasing a whole new system too soon after.
Think Gameboy Color, except it came way earlier and shafted all the early Gameboy adopters. It'd be like that.


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## Deleted-185407 (Jun 28, 2012)

Why do people assume that Nintendo release adapters etc. separately in order to make more money?

First off, you're not forced to buy anything. If they were to modify the design in order to incorporate the additional slider pad and trigger buttons, you'd probably be paying way more than a mere $20. It's not something that they're just going to simply pop on for free. There's a huge cost in research and development, as the design would have to be fundamentally changed. That's not easy. Businesses aren't charities.

By keeping the optional control schema separate from the device, not only does it not segment the market into multiple markets, but it's actually a benefit for their primary consumer who doesn't care about the second pad + trigger buttons. Why should the average consumer pay a huge additional cost for something they're not going to use in most of their games? That's pretty much the same reason why Nintendo most likely didn't include the charger in the Japanese release of the 3DS XL. Why should the consumer pay additional money for an additional charger when they already have one that works perfectly?

I also find it silly people are forgetting about the trigger buttons. If Nintendo was to just add a second slider pad, you'd forced developers to develop for 4 control schemas. Optimising for 4 different control schemas is not easy either, especially when 3 of those controls schemas won't be used by the majority. It's a waste of their time. The majority of Nintendo's customers are clearly happy with the current control schema. Those complaining are in the minority.


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## LAA (Jun 28, 2012)

Pong20302000 said:


> LAA said:
> 
> 
> > Pong20302000 said:
> ...



Ah, so thats why its more expensive... What a surprise its the government at blame...
And charger wise, I only have a DSLite charger, so I would have to buy another one. (If I traded in my 3DS which i would have done if I felt it was worth it)
I know CPP isnt required for KH, it isnt "Required" for anything. I think if anything, Kid icarus is a game that comes close to requiring it, if you're left handed at least, so I find it sad nintendo feels its OK for left handed users to suffer with awkward control for a game, and just dangle another accessory in front of them for purchase. So yeah, CPP isnt required for most things, but in most cases, the control scheme is likely better, I know KH definately will benefit with it for the camera controls.

@[member='Peps'], No I didnt forget about the trigger buttons, its really not that hard to include them, (And probably not that costly either, if its $20 for an add on, which is made from more plastic, an infa red transmittor, opening compartments, more circuits to accomodate for external battery source, its definately gonna be much cheaper to include it all in the same device).
Of course the 3DS XL would have to thicker to accomodate for them, but if you dont like big portables, why would you bother with XL anyway. But in the case that is a problem, an add on could just be made for the triggers instead. Without the circle pad being needed, that saves some length the add on increases, it'd just be for triggers. It'd be a little weird to do that, but its still making it as small as possible.
I see what you mean about "You dont think its fair to pay for something you may not need/use", but at the end of the day, you'd never even know how much money it added to the price with the CPP added and I seriously doubt it'd be enough to make you decide its not worth getting XL or not. You make it sound like adding 2 buttons and a circle pad is huge, ha ha, its not even a lot really. And about the charger, if you're gonna say you shouldnt pay for what you already have, why would you buy an XL? Its made of the same components, why not just sell the screens and case and attach the hardware inside?  And I doubt the majority owns the right type of charger either. I believe most people own a DSLite, which charger isnt compatible with the 3DS charger.
And, no, including a circle pad wouldnt force any developer to use a control scheme. They dont get a list of buttons they MUST use, ha ha. And the ones "Complaining" have every right to complain. If they bought a CPP for a better experience, only for nintendo to charge for it again in the next revision, when it could have so easily been included, they have EVERY right to complain, but of course they dont "Need" an XL, but it puts them at a greater loss if they do, which nintendo didnt seem to consider/ignored. Just because it doesnt affect you, doesnt mean they shouldnt think about helping the ones affected. And if the CPP was included, dont tell you would think of using it? Even if the benefits are small, its still a benefit


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## Arras (Jun 28, 2012)

LAA said:


> Pong20302000 said:
> 
> 
> > CPP isnt needed for Kingdom hearts
> ...


Why would KH benefit so much from a second analogue stick? KH games have been perfectly playable with only one for ages. I didn't hear anyone moaning about Birth By Sleep not having a second stick, and I think I hardly ever used it in KH2.

Besides, they couldn't "easily" have implemented a second Circle Pad. It'd have to be in the same relative position as the old one or you'd get issues where a particular control scheme could become very uncomfortable or even nearly unusable on either the regular 3DS or the XL. This means that they'd have had to place it next to the ABXY buttons, and there really isn't enough space there. The only alternative would've been to increase the size of the XL even further and add a ridiculous amount of unused space at the bottom right of the "handheld".


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## FireGrey (Jun 28, 2012)

Ok this needs to get through people's heads.
THIS IS A PERIPHERAL like the Nunchuk, it's not meant to be a standard for gameplay but rather an add-on that is utilised by particular games.
If they built it in then owners of the original 3DS who don't feel the need to throw their money at an updated product like me will be a bit annoyed at Nintendo.
People shouldn't be treating this is an essential piece to the 3DS.
Also I think I will be more satisfied with the nyko power grip pro


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## RupeeClock (Jun 28, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> Ok this needs to get through people's heads.
> THIS IS A PERIPHERAL like the Nunchuk, it's not meant to be a standard for gameplay but rather an add-on that is utilised by particular games.
> If they built it in then owners of the original 3DS who don't feel the need to throw their money at an updated product like me will be a bit annoyed at Nintendo.
> People shouldn't be treating this is an essential piece to the 3DS.
> Also I think I will be more satisfied with the nyko power grip pro



You cannot compare the Circle Pad Pro to the Nunchuk, which came included with every Wii system and is utilized by a great many games.
The detachable nature of the nunchuk did mean some game designers opted to forgo it though, when the game would have been much better with it.


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## LAA (Jun 28, 2012)

Arras said:


> LAA said:
> 
> 
> > Pong20302000 said:
> ...



I dont see why they "Have" to put it it in the same position. It'd probably be easier actually to have it under ABXY. You still only have 1 thumb in that position, you'd probably be closer to ABXY if the circle pad is under it. And I was just using KH as an example. Camera control in a game such as that can be very handy at times and I prefer using another circle pad dedicated for that than holding L+R and moving the circle pad. It means you can move the camera and move at the same time, so to me, I feel that can be a very beneficial feature. And BBS didnt have an analogue no, but it still would have benefitted from a 2nd anlogue.

@[member='FireGrey'], I know what you're saying, but the nuncuck is ESSENTIAL to many games. I think most games wouldnt exist on wii without it really and if they did, they probably wouldnt be considered as good as they are with it. And if they did add a circle pad to the XL, (And I bought 3DS day 1), I wouldnt feel betrayed at all. I'd feel joyed they're making the product better. Plus you dont "Need" to buy the XL just cause its built in, the CPP still works just as fine on the old one, but I personally would like it built in, same as most people who own CPP I would think. I just think having another circle pad is benefical and makes a wider variety of games available (e.g. FPS).
So I do think the day will come when it'll be built in, just a shame it wasnt in this revision.
And yeah, the nyko power pak pro does look very good! Considering to get that, just a shame I cant see any places for UK to buy from.


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## heartgold (Jun 28, 2012)

Waits for the inevitable 3DS pro/XL two years down the line.


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## Master Mo (Jun 28, 2012)

Not surprising at all imo, since the XL has absolutely the same functions as the regular 3DS, so it should have an CPP!

On the size-matter: Every persons that buys an XL is buying it because either he often plays at home or has a bag when he travels so size doesn't matter to him as long as it is still portable. That's why the bigger size shouldn't matter to those buying a XL.

Now people who buy an "normal" 3DS are maybe more aiming towards pocket-size, but that isn't acomplished by none of the current handhelds.

I'm also very glad they didn't include a second CP to the XL, simply because it would render the original 3DS obsolete. This way it is as good but just smaller!


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## TheDarkSeed (Jun 28, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Waits for the inevitable 3DS pro/XL two years down the line.


Until then, I'll keep my cargo pants ready...


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## spotanjo3 (Jun 28, 2012)

I am glad that they decided to adding 2nd Circle Pad built in soon. I will wait and see how it look like before I might buy it.


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## YayMii (Jun 28, 2012)

This was to be expected. The 3DS XL is supposed to be _functionally identical to the 3DS_, so why not release the same accessories for both?
(to anyone complaining about the 3DS XL not having it in the first place, read the italics)


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## spotanjo3 (Jun 28, 2012)

I dont want the accessory.. Just have it built in will save you from having an accessory is too much. That's reason why I dont buy 3DS with 2nd circle pad pro accessory.


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## GreatZimkogway (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan moan. I'm sorry, but unless you work with Nintendo or your a stock investor in theirs and shit, you don't know any of the reasons behind anything they do.
> ...



First point: How do you know?  Judging from the original XL, as well as how the 3DS is already laid out, *No, there is not room.  The 3DS XL has more battery life.  Know what that almost certainly means?  Bigger battery.  In the exact same spot.  Right where people are bitching that they want a second circle pad.*  There simply is not room for it.  I wouldn't be surprised that even if the battery is the same size, there still wouldn't be room. 

Second point: Okay, so because people keep bitching about something unnessesary, those of us early adoptors have to be fucked over with shitty control schemes for something because the second circle pad scheme got more attention?  *No.  Fuck you.*


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Jun 28, 2012)

To be fair, we can't really pass any credible judgement on Nintendo's failure of adding an additional analog nub unless we (and by that, I mean design specialists and electrical engineers) do a thorough inspection of the schematics and component placement in the 3DS XL.

While at first glance it makes perfect economic sense to sell a 3DS circle pad pro, we don't have access to said schematics to make a sound judgment on Nintendo's final design.

It's like accusing a little tike of stealing cookies. If we have no evidence, we just make ourselves look bad.


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## Gh0sti (Jun 28, 2012)

as if they couldnt make it bigger thanks nintendo


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 28, 2012)

Am I the only one who still isn't interested in the Circle Pad Pro since its very first announcement on the 3DS? I just don't see a reason to get it, especially when games won't require it.


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## Rasas (Jun 28, 2012)

Lucifer666 said:


> Am I the only one who still isn't interested in the Circle Pad Pro since its very first announcement on the 3DS? I just don't see a reason to get it, especially when games won't require it.


You might like the game a little bit more with it or maybe not and no your not the only one.


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## DjoeN (Jun 28, 2012)

The should bring out a 3DS Micro version (Like the GBA Micro) (and a Circle Pad Micro again then  )


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Maybe it's the devs who didn't want it. Seriously, you saying them greedy is no different than me saying this is a good way to not cut the users in half.


Are you seriously telling me devs wouldn't want more options?



brandonspikes said:


> Here is what you don't understand, If they were to put a 2'ND pad on the 3DSa, It would alienate the people that already had a normal 3DS, It fucks over people and forces them to update, Its a VERY bad idea.
> 
> 
> And seriously, What is wrong with a company trying to make money, nobody is forcing you to buy it.


God, what don't you understand? It wouldn't alienate anyone because devs would make _two control-schemes_.



alunral said:


> First point: How do you know?  Judging from the original XL, as well as how the 3DS is already laid out, *No, there is not room.  The 3DS XL has more battery life.  Know what that almost certainly means?  Bigger battery.  In the exact same spot.  Right where people are bitching that they want a second circle pad.*  There simply is not room for it.  I wouldn't be surprised that even if the battery is the same size, there still wouldn't be room.
> 
> Second point: Okay, so because people keep bitching about something unnessesary, those of us early adoptors have to be fucked over with shitty control schemes for something because the second circle pad scheme got more attention?  *No.  Fuck you.*


Do you know how big the goddamn 3DS XL is? There is more than enough to space for a second stick to fit in it. A battery would definitely not take up all the extra space, especially one that is only .5 hours longer than the existing one.

How the hell do early adopters get shafted? If you want a second analog stick, they can buy a CPP. Even if there wasn't a second stick, games that would benefit from the second stick are going to play like shit. Adding a second stick ain't going to change that but instead give people the option, to play a game the optimal way.


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## chartube12 (Jun 28, 2012)

My really big problem with the CCP?, it isn't in stock anywhere within 50 miles of me. Hell gamestop only stocks about 10-12 games at a time. Local walmarts are still only have the launch window games plus mario land and kid Icorus(sp). Do you know what this makes me think?, The 3DS is doing horrible in terms of selling games *in my area*. I know the 3DS is probably doing decent, But dam it feels like a much slower start then the DS.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

chartube12 said:


> My really big problem with the CCP?, it isn't in stock anywhere within 50 miles of me. Hell gamestop only stocks about 10-12 games at a time. Local walmarts are still only have the launch window games plus mario land and kid Icorus(sp). Do you know what this makes me think?, The 3DS is doing horrible in terms of selling games.


http://store.nintend...roductId=189708


But just wait until Nyko's superior version.


----------



## VMM (Jun 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> What other time have I blamed the devs? You mean when I said that the devs could easily fix a camera thing? I didn't blame the devs this time, so again, don't twist words around. I said that for all we know, it could have been them that didn't want a second analog because then they'd have to do extra work putting in two control schemes.






ShadowSoldier said:


> People like you make me sick, you really do. How can you call yourselves a gamer at all when people like you (and others on this site) bitch and say "yeah, im not buying it because there's no second analog". That is the dumbest reason ever not to buy a console. What a joke. The less there are of you in the world, the better.






ShadowSoldier said:


> Yeah,* that was the developers fault*. It's not that hard to put a decent camera system in a game, hell they did it with Peace Walker, and that game was awesome.



Need I to say more?


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

VMM said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > What other time have I blamed the devs? You mean when I said that the devs could easily fix a camera thing? I didn't blame the devs this time, so again, don't twist words around. I said that for all we know, it could have been them that didn't want a second analog because then they'd have to do extra work putting in two control schemes.
> ...



Ah, Forgot I said that, thanks for bringing that up. What I meant by that was it's their fault that they don't want to take the extra time to put in a working camera system. Tons of games on the 3DS already proved that it doesn't need a second analog. Majority of the DS Library did as well. Look at games like Mario Galaxy, or Zelda where the camera is perfect. It's not that hard. Hell, has Nintendo themselves even put a camera into a game where we need a second stick? I'm not sure, but I can't recall of any.


----------



## VMM (Jun 28, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> No, I'm saying devs these days don't want to put the extra work into a game, they just want to get it out as fast as possible.



It's not like that, making a port like MGS3 using just one analog, with perfect camera require's a lot time.
This game was out when we didn't have much options for 3DS.
Making this port, within this limited time,
I can't think of a game better in any way

Kid Icarus is one of the games that most require the 2nd analog, 
and is published by Nintendo,
proving that even Nintendo needs the 2nd analog,
and that it was a huge mistake to not put one on 3DS


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

VMM said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > No, I'm saying devs these days don't want to put the extra work into a game, they just want to get it out as fast as possible.
> ...


Well they should have spent the extra time. There was nothing stopping them. I'd rather a delayed game that gets good than a game that gets released on time and is crappy.



> Kid Icarus is one of the games that most require the 2nd analog,
> and is *published* by Nintendo,
> proving that even Nintendo needs the 2nd analog,
> and that it was a huge mistake to not put one on 3DS



But not developed. Uprising was made by Project Sora, and was their first title they made.


----------



## chartube12 (Jun 28, 2012)

I can't believe someone said the mario galaxy camera is perfect? WTF are you smoking? Mario 3D games have had cameras just as bad as the sonic games.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> Are you seriously telling me devs wouldn't want more options?



They really don't. It means further costs and ensuring each variation has an optimal experience. Pretty similar to why developers hate Android because of the ridiculous amount of fragmentation in the market. Usually it's easier to just target the lowest common denominator, which for the 3DS encompasses the majority of the market anyways.



soulx said:


> God, what don't you understand? It wouldn't alienate anyone because devs would make _two control-schemes_.


Four control-schemes you mean.

Scheme 1: Original 3DS
Scheme 2: Original 3DS + CPP with trigger buttons
Scheme 3: 3DS with built-in second circle pad only
Scheme 4: 3DS with built-in second circle pad + Adapter for trigger buttons



soulx said:


> Do you know how big the goddamn 3DS XL is? There is more than enough to space for a second stick to fit in it. A battery would definitely not take up all the extra space, especially one that is only .5 hours longer than the existing one.


Open up a 3DS XL and prove your point. You don't have the internal information to make this claim. The battery is also not just providing an extra 30 minutes battery life, it's also providing more power to power the larger displays. The larger the display, the more power that's required.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

Peps said:


> They really don't. It means further costs and ensuring each variation has an optimal experience. Pretty similar to why developers hate Android because of the ridiculous amount of fragmentation in the market. Usually it's easier to just target the lowest common denominator, which for the 3DS encompasses the majority of the market anyways.



It's not similar to Android..at all. With Android, devs have to deal with vastly different specs and displays among the various tablets and phones. This is just an extra analog stick and triggers. It is not difficult to add _one_ extra control scheme to accomodate original 3DS owners.



Peps said:


> Four control-schemes you mean.
> 
> Scheme 1: Original 3DS
> Scheme 2: Original 3DS + CPP with trigger buttons
> ...



It's only 2 control-schemes.

1: Original 3DS
2. Second Stick with trigger buttons (CPP too)

There's no need for an adapter with trigger buttons. Nintendo could just implement Classic Controller Pro-style triggers and that would fit on the system.



Peps said:


> Open up a 3DS XL and prove your point. You don't have the internal information to make this claim. The battery is also not just providing an extra 30 minutes battery life, it's also providing more power to power the larger displays. The larger the display, the more power that's required.



The system hasn't been released yet so we obviously don't have any teardowns. It's reasonable enough to assume that a second stick would fit given how large the 3DS XL is but we'll see when it gets released.


----------



## GreatZimkogway (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's the devs who didn't want it. Seriously, you saying them greedy is no different than me saying this is a good way to not cut the users in half.
> ...



Um...I think you have your facts wrong.  Last time I checked, the 3DS XL is supposed to have longer battery life, by a lot.  And you're also forgetting that in order to even have the same battery life, more power is needed to power the bigger screens.

Say what you want on the second circle pad.


EDIT: I realize Peps said the same thing I did.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

alunral said:


> Um...I think you have your facts wrong.  Last time I checked, the 3DS XL is supposed to have longer battery life, by a lot.  And you're also forgetting that in order to even have the same battery life, more power is needed to power the bigger screens.
> 
> Say what you want on the second circle pad.
> 
> ...


No, it's only .5 hours longer.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Jun 28, 2012)

The only way a 2nd circle pad could had ever be added to the hardware *at low cost* is if there was an existing connection for one in the first place. Without that, it would require a drastic change to the hardware, as well as a change to the software, both OS and games that made use of the current peripheral via IR port. Something like an additional circle pad is reserved for a major revision, much like from DS -> DSi, not DS-> DS Lite or DSi -> DSiXL.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> The only way a 2nd circle pad could had ever be added to the hardware *at low cost* is if there was an existing connection for one in the first place. Without that, it would require a drastic change to the hardware, as well as a change to the software, both OS and games that made use of the current peripheral via IR port. Something like an additional circle pad is reserved for a major revision, much like from DS -> DSi, not DS-> DS Lite or DSi -> DSiXL.


They could just as easily update the firmware for older games that use the CPP (connect via IR). IIRC, games accessed the OS when connecting the CPP.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> *snip*


You're missing the entire point from the developer's perspective. You're telling them that they should be wasting their time and money to modify their game engines to support additional functionality to satisfy a minority. There's a risk involved there. Adding a control scheme isn't just a simple mapping of buttons, but it also requires modifying the game engine itself to support those mappings. That's more work than you think it is. Why should I pay my software developers to design and implement something that I probably won't make my money back on? I have a feeling you don't come from a professional software background if you're making assertions like that. 

In regards to the control schemas, the majority of people in this thread are just asking for a second circle pad and nothing more. That's an extra market that doesn't exist at the moment that also has to be taken into account. Depending on how the 3DS API works, the fourth market may be a factor, or it may not. Are you implying that you want a 3DS variation that's extremely bulky and has the trigger buttons built-in as well?

Finally, don't make claims that you can't back-up. If you can't prove that the 3DS XL has free space in it, don't state it. It's not even close to a reasonable assumption. You're assuming that components, including the battery, have remained the same, which is ridiculous. The battery is probably at least double the physical size considering it has to power two screens that are double the original size. It's amazing that Nintendo actually managed to provide a significant increase in the battery life. 30 minutes might not seem significant to you as a consumer, but from a technical perspective, it's a great achievement.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

Peps said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > *snip*
> ...


No one is forcing developers to modify anything. The extra circle-pad would be used in future games, not tacked into existing games. You seem to think that developers would be forced to use a second stick in all of their games. They wouldn't. Developers would have the_ option_ to use a second stick and triggers for their games that would benefit from it. Options are nice.

When people mention the second circle pad in this thread, they're obviously referring to the extra triggers too. You're just grasping at straws here. I already said that they could implement CC-Pro style triggers so that it wouldn't be bulky.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> No one is forcing developers to modify anything. The extra circle-pad would be used in future games, not tacked into existing games. You seem to think that developers would be forced to use a second stick in all of their games. They wouldn't. Developers would have the_ option_ to use a second stick and triggers for their games that would benefit from it. Options are nice.
> 
> When people mention the second circle pad in this thread, they're obviously referring to the extra triggers too. You're just grasping at straws here. I already said that they could implement CC-Pro style triggers so that it wouldn't be bulky.


I am talking about future games. Future games will have to design complex engines that take all control schemas into account. Again, you're not thinking about it from the developer's perspective at all. Multiple target platforms are not nice for a developer to deal with. Ensuring the user has a good experience is an expensive task. Why should I waste my money satisfying you? You're a minority.

I doubt that majority of people are even thinking about the trigger buttons at all. Their Photoshop imagines of the 3DS with the additional slider contains no trigger buttons. By all means, feel free to design a 3DS that isn't bulky and contains the trigger buttons.


----------



## VMM (Jun 28, 2012)

Peps said:


> Open up a 3DS XL and prove your point. You don't have the internal information to make this claim. The battery is also not just providing an extra 30 minutes battery life, it's also
> providing more power to power the larger displays. The larger the display, the more power that's required.



There is no need to open that, with this area avaiable, and a little twist of position in the parts and it's done.
It may become a little thicker, but not much, and would be great for everyone



ShadowSoldier said:


> Well they should have spent the extra time. There was nothing stopping them. I'd rather a delayed game that gets good than a game that gets released on time and is crappy.



The game is far from crappy, but obviously it requires a 2nd analog to be played well, like every f****** MGS gam
Kid Icarus Uprising is one of the best games in history considering the rankings, but still need the 2nd analog to be played well

Not Mario, neither Zelda have propper cameras when it comes to 3D platform
To say the truth, both camera's suck, and are outdated when considering how dual analog makes huge difference
today and since PS1 implemented that




ShadowSoldier said:


> But not developed. Uprising was made by Project Sora, and was their first title they made.



That's not an excuse, and I guess you already know that


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 28, 2012)

Peps said:


> I am talking about future games. Future games will have to design complex engines that take all control schemas into account. Again, you're not thinking about it from the developer's perspective at all. Multiple target platforms are not nice for a developer to deal with. Ensuring the user has a good experience is an expensive task. Why should I waste my money satisfying you? You're a minority.
> 
> I doubt that majority of people are even thinking about the trigger buttons at all. Their Photoshop imagines of the 3DS with the additional slider contains no trigger buttons. By all means, feel free to design a 3DS that isn't bulky and contains the trigger buttons.


There are only two control-schemes to take into account. That isn't anywhere near as daunting as a task as you make it seem. In fact, if you seem to think that it's such a hassle for developers, then please do explain the multitude of games out already that take advantage of the CPP.  

As I said before, devs can implement second-stick support and triggers as needed. No one is forcing them to add that in. If they don't think it's worth the cost of adding it in, they don't have to.

And obviously, the Photoshop's wouldn't show the triggers as they only show the 3DS from the front. When they talk about the second stick, they're referring to the full-package (triggers and all).


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 28, 2012)

*Screw the size!*​


*I have the money!*​Seriously though, I can't wait to see the add-on. For a machine 90% bigger than the original 3DS, I'm really wondering why it's not embedded in the system and instead has to be attached to an already huge handheld.​


----------



## pasc (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > That battery better be filling a lot of room when it comes to breaking it down. The rage if there is room.
> ...



Go tell that any other video gaming company, Nintendo is just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Skelletonike (Jun 28, 2012)

LAA said:


> Ah, so thats why its more expensive... What a surprise its the government at blame...
> And charger wise, I only have a DSLite charger, so I would have to buy another one. (If I traded in my 3DS which i would have done if I felt it was worth it)
> I know CPP isnt required for KH, it isnt "Required" for anything. I think if anything, Kid icarus is a game that comes close to requiring it, if you're left handed at least, so I find it sad nintendo feels its OK for left handed users to suffer with awkward control for a game, and just dangle another accessory in front of them for purchase. So yeah, CPP isnt required for most things, but in most cases, the control scheme is likely better, I know KH definately will benefit with it for the camera controls.
> 
> ...



I've been left handed all my life and I have no problems playing Kid Icarus or any other 3DS game, it only seems awkward at first, it only took me 5mins to adapt to the controls, and well, that includes both land and sky controls. x3
I also have a CPP since it was released and I rarely use it, I mainly use it to play normal games just because it's comfortable to hold imho, and makes some games more enjoyable, holding wise, not control wise (I play DS games and some 3DS games that have no support for the CPP with the CPP attached).
Also... Have you seen the thickness of the second triggers? If Nintendo wanted to give a similar experience, they'd have to make the XL as large as the CPP. o.O


----------



## LAA (Jun 28, 2012)

Skelletonike said:


> LAA said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, so thats why its more expensive... What a surprise its the government at blame...
> ...



Yeah I'm not left handed, so I cant really understand sorry, but I'd imagine using the stylus in my left hand compared to my right hand to be much harder to me, ha ha.
And yeah it would be thcker, but it'd be even thicker if you wanted a CPP with it too. As I suggested, perhaps they could do a CPP just for the trickers in the case it is a problem to implement, the cpad however would have been much handier to just have on the 3DS XL.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Jun 28, 2012)

VMM said:


> There is no need to open that, with this area avaiable, and a little twist of position in the parts and it's done.
> It may become a little thicker, but not much, and would be great for everyone



If course there's a need to open it. You're making the claim, so back it up. "Twisting the position" of parts is not as simple as you're making it to be. It's an entire change to the architecture which takes time to design and implement. If you've ever worked on a technical project, you'd understand that design is a huge task in itself. If you're to add thickness, you're adding quite a substantial amount, not a "little". The trigger buttons themselves would add a substantial amount of thickness by themselves.



soulx said:


> There are only two control-schemes to take into account. That isn't anywhere near as daunting as a task as you make it seem. In fact, if you seem to think that it's such a hassle for developers, then please do explain the multitude of games out already that take advantage of the CPP.
> 
> As I said before, devs can implement second-stick support and triggers as needed. No one is forcing them to add that in. If they don't think it's worth the cost of adding it in, they don't have to.
> 
> And obviously, the Photoshop's wouldn't show the triggers as they only show the 3DS from the front. When they talk about the second stick, they're referring to the full-package (triggers and all).



Clearly those developers thought it would be worthwhile investing money into adding support for the device. Was it a good decision? Only they know, not us. We don't have their sale data, nor their cost data, nor their designs. Perhaps they even regret spending money providing that functionality. If you were a software developer, you'd understand perfectly where I'm coming from. If you were a project manager, you'd understand the risks that are involved in even the smallest of functionality. As it is, projects rarely finish on time and on budget, and there's very little time for gold-plating. (7 or so games isn't a "multitude of games" anyways)

If a revision of the 3DS was to include an additional circle pad, developers would feel forced to develop and optimise for both platforms. By keeping the control scheme as purely optional (as it is currently), developers don't feel that pressure whatsoever. Not to mention, if developers don't use the functionality, why would Nintendo release the product to begin with? Seems like a waste of Nintendo's time if developers don't develop for the new platform. Just look at the DSi, which from a developer's perspective, was a complete and utter failure. How many DSi-only games are sold in retail stores? How many DSi games take advantage of the faster CPUs and the big increase in RAM?

You know what, here's a task for you. I want you to make pictures of a 3DS variation, which shows all sides of the console, that includes all of the functionality that you want. With that, I want you to include a feasibility study with a statement as to what value it will provide to the business. You have to give reasons as to why developers want more work, and why Nintendo should invest in a product that would most likely only be used by a minority. On top of which, I want you to include some designs as to what the internal architecture would possibly look like. If you really want to convince me, include a full detailed diagram of all of the components and all of their connections. If you really think it's that easy, all of those tasks should be no problem for you.


----------



## Zerousen (Jun 28, 2012)

soulx said:


> They couldn't have just added a second circle-pad to the XL to begin with? Fucking Nintendo.



They only made the XL for, well, people who wanted it to be bigger. Wouldn't want to make the 3DS obsolete, would they?


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Jun 28, 2012)

VMM said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Well they should have spent the extra time. There was nothing stopping them. I'd rather a delayed game that gets good than a game that gets released on time and is crappy.
> ...


Please, the shitty frame rate and ugly visuals would have killed the game beyond repair of what a second analog would have done.


> Kid Icarus Uprising is one of the best games in history considering the rankings, but still need the 2nd analog to be played well
> 
> Not Mario, neither Zelda have propper cameras when it comes to 3D platform
> To say the truth, both camera's suck, and are outdated when considering how dual analog makes huge difference
> today and since PS1 implemented that



Then like I said before, you're playing those games wrong then. That's all there is to it.




> That's not an excuse, and I guess you already know that



That's a damn good excuse, you're just being a total hard ass now. Here's a question, are you running for the position of the conductor aboard the Nintendo Hate Wagon? You might get chosen.


----------



## VMM (Jun 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Please, the shitty frame rate and ugly visuals would have killed the game beyond repair of what a second analog would have done.



Crappy visuals?! Are you insane? This game has one of the best graphics for a 3DS game,
considering it's a port, they've done great.




ShadowSoldier said:


> Then like I said before, you're playing those games wrong then. That's all there is to it.



Man, I've being playing Super Mario 64 since I was 8,
every year I beat the game at least 5 times,
this is my favorite game,
but that does not blind.
I'm still able to see that the 2nd analog would be perfect suitable.
Zelda OOT needed even more the 2nd analog




ShadowSoldier said:


> That's a damn good excuse, you're just being a total hard ass now. Here's a question, are you running for the position of the conductor aboard the Nintendo Hate Wagon? You might get chosen.



If it wasn't for Nintendo, this game would never see the light of a day
Like Pokémon, Kirby, DKC and many others
Nintendo has huge influence on those games

I'm not a hater, I'm just not blinded by fanatism


----------



## Gahars (Jun 29, 2012)

Efficiency, thy name is the 3DS XL Circle Pad Pro!

...Wow, that title is a mouthful.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Jun 29, 2012)

VMM said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > Please, the shitty frame rate and ugly visuals would have killed the game beyond repair of what a second analog would have done.
> ...



They have an influence but they take no part in the development. There's a difference there.


----------



## klim28 (Jun 29, 2012)

Just for lulz

Found this pic haha


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 29, 2012)

The 3ds Tablet! 


If there is room, they matter well just add it on, if they going through that much trouble.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> ~ShadowSoldier ShadowSoldiering~


Okay, so here's the thing... Since the DS was released, which was the first Nintendo handheld to do *proper* 3D, unlike the crude 3D games of the GBA, the Nintendo fanbase was screaming and begging for an analog stick - the obvious choice of control in a three-dimensional space.

Since the PSP was released, its users were crying to the heavens for one thing and one thing only - a second analog stick to control camera movement.

The PS1 DualShock controller had two analog sticks and this setup turned out to work *brilliantly* - everybody else followed suit and thus the PS2, the XBox and the Gamecube also had two analog sticks, simply because it takes the camera control away from the game, which doesn't always angle it perfectly, and gives it to the player, enhancing the gaming experience. Twin analog sticks became a staple of gaming in general, but until now, they were not a necessity for handhelds as handhelds simply had "different" games compared to their home console equivalents.

Now that handheld games are at a similar level of 3D complexity to those games which necessitated the need for twin sticks in the first place, a need for a second analog stick has risen. The Vita comes equipped with two sticks and the 3DS was given a perhaptial to add a secondary slider _due to high demand._

Can you *please* stop arguing that a second stick is useless and doesn't enhance the control over the game, seeing that whole generations of gaming consoles appear to prove otherwise? VMM has a point - a twin-stick scenario in a three-dimensional space does improve overall control schemes.

Please stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a "Nintendo Hater" - constructive criticism is not blatantly riding the Hate Train. You're sounding like a fanboy when you automatically shoot down any form of Nintendo criticism, writing it down as Hating. Asking for two sticks is not a tall order - it's the 21st century, it's ABOUT TIME they added an analog slider and it's a SHAME that two aren't mounted stock on the console but at the very least it was given a useful perhaptial to add one.


----------



## ProtoKun7 (Jun 29, 2012)

It actually (kind of) makes sense to have the CPP added on, actually.
Having it included on the hardware would mean a wedge of sorts between original 3DS owners and XL owners. If they wanted an extra pad on the hardware, they should've added it to the 3DS hardware. They didn't, and they should live with the mistake until the next generation (unless it ends up in another eighth-generation revision and I kinda hope it doesn't). They should live with developers making games designed for only one stick.

Not that I think the implementation is fantastic.



Spoiler: Relevant


----------



## MakiManPR (Jun 29, 2012)

Can't imagine how big it will be with that added


----------



## VMM (Jun 29, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> They have an influence but they take no part in the development. There's a difference there.



They interfere a lot in development, 
I remember reading that Kirby got a lot different than the original project due to Iwata's interference


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 29, 2012)

Peps said:


> Clearly those developers thought it would be worthwhile investing money into adding support for the device. Was it a good decision? Only they know, not us. We don't have their sale data, nor their cost data, nor their designs. Perhaps they even regret spending money providing that functionality. If you were a software developer, you'd understand perfectly where I'm coming from. If you were a project manager, you'd understand the risks that are involved in even the smallest of functionality. As it is, projects rarely finish on time and on budget, and there's very little time for gold-plating. (7 or so games isn't a "multitude of games" anyways)
> 
> If a revision of the 3DS was to include an additional circle pad, developers would feel forced to develop and optimise for both platforms. By keeping the control scheme as purely optional (as it is currently), developers don't feel that pressure whatsoever. Not to mention, if developers don't use the functionality, why would Nintendo release the product to begin with? Seems like a waste of Nintendo's time if developers don't develop for the new platform. Just look at the DSi, which from a developer's perspective, was a complete and utter failure. How many DSi-only games are sold in retail stores? How many DSi games take advantage of the faster CPUs and the big increase in RAM?
> 
> You know what, here's a task for you. I want you to make pictures of a 3DS variation, which shows all sides of the console, that includes all of the functionality that you want. With that, I want you to include a feasibility study with a statement as to what value it will provide to the business. You have to give reasons as to why developers want more work, and why Nintendo should invest in a product that would most likely only be used by a minority. On top of which, I want you to include some designs as to what the internal architecture would possibly look like. If you really want to convince me, include a full detailed diagram of all of the components and all of their connections. If you really think it's that easy, all of those tasks should be no problem for you.


For one, adding support for a second stick and triggers is not as much of an investment or a cost risk as you seem to think. If that was true, developers would not have had support for the CPP (which had a very small userbase at the time of release).

How would developers feel forced to utilize an additional circle-pad? It's their choice as to whether to add support for it in their games. They have the option to leave the second-stick alone and utilize one control-scheme for both systems. Nintendo isn't putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to use a second stick. It's an _option_ just like the D-Pad on the 3DS which is not used in all games.

As for developers not using the functionality, it's not necessary for all games. There will be devs that won't use it but for the ones that are developing FPS, TPS and other game-types that benefit from a second stick (most notably, Monster Hunter), they would use it to improve their games control-scheme.

There is no reason for me to outline all of what you asked. I'm not a Nintendo product designer so it certainly isn't my job. I already explained above that it would _not_ force more work on to developers. Not to mention your conclusion that a second stick would only be used by a minority is flawed. If that was the case, Nintendo would not have come out with the Circle Pad Pro. They made that device because there was demand for one.

Since you seem to think that adding the triggers is impossible without adding a lot of bulk, look at these lovely triggers on the Classic Controller?






That would fit on the system without causing much bulk.


----------



## Deleted-185407 (Jun 29, 2012)

soulx said:


> For one, adding support for a second stick and triggers is not as much of an investment or a cost risk as you seem to think. If that was true, developers would not have had support for the CPP (which had a very small userbase at the time of release).
> 
> How would developers feel forced to utilize an additional circle-pad? It's their choice as to whether to add support for it in their games. They have the option to leave the second-stick alone and utilize one control-scheme for both systems. Nintendo isn't putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to use a second stick. It's an _option_ just like the D-Pad on the 3DS which is not used in all games.
> 
> ...



Your entire argument is flawed because you clearly don't have any experience in professional software development and have little to no understanding of software design and life-cycles (Before you ask, yes I do have professional software development experience). The developers who implemented the control scheme obviously thought that players like yourself wouldn't purchase the game unless it supported the device. They know how aggressive and picky the player-base can be, thus must have thought that it would be best to keep them happy. Now does the cost justify the reward? You don't know that, neither do I. The uninformed consumer will obviously think it's something that's simple to do, but even the smallest of features can be daunting tasks. Don't forget coding is just one step of a life-cycle for a feature, you have Requirements, Design, Unit Testing, Integration Testing, User Acceptance Testing, and so on.

If Nintendo put the second analog and triggers onto the console, they would most certainly be pressurising developers to take advantage of it. If Nintendo decided to spend lots of money modifying the architecture of their console, they most certainly want to see that money come back to them. Everyone keeps thinking it costs nothing to add new controls to the console. That's very misguided considering again, it lacks complete knowledge of development life-cycles and the amount of work that's involved in modifying hardware. Why should Nintendo spend lots of money when little to no developers are going to develop for it? Seems like a waste of money for Nintendo. The only reason they designed the 3DS XL is because they believe the cost of researching and developing a larger version of the 3DS with few modifications will be worth it.

The fact that Nintendo came out with an adapter that costs little to nothing to make is proof that the features would only be used by a minority. There's nothing complex about the design, and requires no modification to the complex design of the console. I don't get what's so hard for people to understand that modifying complex architectures is not easy. Once you have a design implemented, it's extremely hard to make modifications. They obviously released the product because it cost them little to nothing in terms of development, while it will actually bring plenty of new customers to the platform. If Nintendo truly thought the majority wanted an additional circle pad + triggers on the console, they would have ignored the millions of people who already bought their console and incorporated them as soon as possible. They didn't, meaning you are a minority, whether you like to admit it or not. Nintendo aren't idiots.

As for your "design", where are you getting the space for them? Stop looking at the outside of the console and start looking at the inside where it truly counts. Show me real designs, otherwise, your entire argument is baseless. You're just saying it's possible, without actually proving it. Give your argument some solid ground.

This is your argument in a nutshell: _"Oh hey Nintendo, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to hardware and software design. I think you're a bunch of idiots and you should follow my hand-drawn pictures of the exterior of the console. I know nothing about costs but I don't think it'll cost you much. You shouldn't be after profit, you should be trying to make every single one of your customers happy."_


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## raulpica (Jun 29, 2012)

I'll be a little non-intrusive strap-on () circle pad which will strap between the ABXY buttons and the Power button. Which will also somehow add the two additional triggers in the back in a similiar, elegant way.

I trust in you, Nintendo!


...who am I kidding, it'll be a huge, horrible beast carrying destruction and weight


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## Deleted User (Jun 29, 2012)

That's going to make it as big as a baguette.


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## ProtoKun7 (Jun 29, 2012)

raulpica said:


> *I'll* be a little non-intrusive strap-on


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## Foxi4 (Jun 30, 2012)

raulpica said:


> I'll be _a little non-intrusive strap-on_... ( )


I'm a little bit scared of the end result, I think_ I'm going to pussy out on this one_... ( )




HA!


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## raulpica (Jun 30, 2012)

ProtoKun7 said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > *I'll* be a little non-intrusive strap-on


Damn you, nightly-tiredness-derived-typos!



Foxi4 said:


> raulpica said:
> 
> 
> > I'll be _a little non-intrusive strap-on_... ( )
> ...


I'd gladly continue this awesome pun combo, but it'd steer into an awesome super-funny off-topicness that would derail the entire thread, so I'll stop here.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 30, 2012)

Peps said:


> Valid arguments.


You speak of the truth. Mmmmostly.

I'm not going to contest your long post as you have quite a valid and reasonable approach, but I'll give you food for thought. Since the dawn of time, it's been games that sold accessories, not accessories that sold games. I'm not even trying to begin counting how many otherwise useless plastic instruments and how many DDR mats were sold just because of DDR and Guitar Hero/Rockband, and those accessories are really only useful for the one game that they're trademarked with.

My point is, as a professional developer, (or so you claim) how do you think - what are the odds that Nintendo is going to push this new accessory onto developers, trying to promote it the best they can, especially since many get the impression that it was made due to fan demand rather than prior planning? How much are you willing to wager that the games that *could* utilize the CPP in a creative or simply comfortable way will do so simply because programming keybinds in isn't that much of an issue?

Secondly, the 3DS XL contains the exact same hardware as the 3DS, minus the screens which are obviously bigger, while being about 90% bigger from its predecessor. What do you think, do simple maths tell you that you can cram up some extra hardware in there if you have, practically, a bigger PCB to work with, a bigger case to work with and the same amount of guts that you have to put inside? I'm willing to bet that "it's going to fit perfectly fine".


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## Deleted-185407 (Jun 30, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> You speak of the truth. Mmmmostly.
> 
> I'm not going to contest your long post as you have quite a valid and reasonable approach, but I'll give you food for thought. Since the dawn of time, it's been games that sold accessories, not accessories that sold games. I'm not even trying to begin counting how many otherwise useless plastic instruments and how many DDR mats were sold just because of DDR and Guitar Hero/Rockband, and those accessories are really only useful for the one game that they're trademarked with.
> 
> ...



You're absolutely right that it's the games that sell consoles, not the hardware and accessories. Many people who are demanding for Nintendo to release a new variation of the 3DS with a built-in pad + triggers feel otherwise. However, I believe that once the console has a game they really want, they'll purchase the console anyway. If that happens, that just proves Nintendo is right to not waste money researching and developing a "revised" version of the console. Customers never usually know what they want. They think they want one thing, when actually it's something entirely different. Nintendo is perfectly aware of that.

As a result of the adapter costing little to nothing for Nintendo to make (compare the insides of the adapter, versus the insides of the 3DS), I don't think they really care if it succeeds or not. As I mentioned before, they know how picky the current generation of gamers can be. I would agree that it was made due to fan demand rather than prior planning, and that's why. It's clearly designed to be something that they could make cheaply and quickly in order to drastically improve sales. Has it been success in doing that? The only people who can answer that are those who bought the console once the adapter came out. Don't forget as well, that if Nintendo did incorporate the slider + triggers into a new variation, the increase in price would be much larger than $20 due to research, development and risk.

I'm not entirely sure what your second question is asking. But remember, a key-binding isn't just a simple remapping, your game engine actually has to support the binding and the new functionality. Take a simple example, say your camera has a clever algorithm to follow the player all of the time. Now let's say you want to let the user control the camera with the second circle pad. Doing so requires modifying and introducing a good few new algorithms (moving a camera isn't as simple as adding co-ordinates, you also have to do complex ray-tracing to ensuring the camera doesn't go through walls and so on). Then of course, you have to get your testers to test the functionality and constantly tweak it until it's comfortable, intuitive and perfected. I can't remember the exact percentage, but coding a feature is a minor task (like 30%, still a hefty task though), the majority of the work is in testing (50%) (Requirements and Design accommodate the remaining 20%. The Agile approach to software development is becoming more popular, which reduces the emphasis on documentation, and more emphasis on coding and testing to produce software quicker with better quality.).

Whether a lot of developers think it's necessary or not remains to be seen. I don't think many developers care about supporting the device considering only a few games support the device, while millions of 3DS consoles have been selling. If I was a 3DS developer, I wouldn't think it'd be wise to waste time focusing on something that only a minority would use. Rather, I'd focus on innovating and perfecting the standard control scheme that everyone can use. The existence of the touch-screen allows for many innovative possibilities. Think about some of the old DS shooter games. The touch-screen controls were far superior to dual-analogs since the accuracy was so much better. That's innovation. In software development, since you want to be on-time and on-budget (which for 70% of projects, doesn't happen), you simply just don't have the resources to keep a minority happy.

As for the last paragraph, it's not just the screens that changed, but also the batteries. To support those larger screens, you need a much bulkier battery. Like I said in a previous post, it's amazing that Nintendo actually increased the battery life at all. Supporting two massive screens, one of which being 3D, is really not easy. As a result, the battery will clearly be taking up a lot of room in the console. On any device, the screen is what takes up the majority of the power. The consumer wouldn't think that the battery changed at all, since it's an internal change, but it definitely has, and most likely is twice its original size. Mobile CPUs and GPUs are not that power hungry at all (yet are still very powerful).


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