# (mini rant) "Hardcore" gamers are too concerned about physical copies



## Nerdtendo (Feb 27, 2020)

I know collections are nice, and it's always reassuring to know you have physical things that can't be lost with a hard drive crash, but it seems like most people are way too quick to dismiss digital games. When you buy digital, you don't have to worry about games getting lost or damaged. You also have the convenience of not having to take the time to put a disk into a console. 
I've heard the argument that "I don't want to pay $60 for access to some code that I can't actually own. Then I can't trade or resell games." This argument is pretty dumb. When you buy a game, you're never paying for the value of the actual physical good, you're paying for the code that makes up the game, i.e. the product. Discs are dirt cheap to manufacture. As for the whole "trading" thing, that's just an unfortunate side effect of the times.
Tl;Dr:
Digital games are way more convenient than physical even though physical looks nice


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## Taleweaver (Feb 27, 2020)

Well...at least you acknowledge it's a rant. 

I honestly don't care how many are dismissing digital games. I'm fine with it, and I've got no reason to talk anyone out of their hobby.

Truth of the matter: I can't even remember last time I opened my DVD tray to insert a disc in. Especially not when not counting windows discs. Nonetheless, I've not gamed less. Rather the contrary.
Besides: the arguments against it are well documented and solved for those who want it:
"no ownership" -> GoG
"your hard disk may crash" -> backup
"game servers may go offline" -> your disks will deteriorate faster than that
"steam may go bankrupt" -> GoG
"I like the physical presence" -> good for you 

That said: if there's a discussion, it has to be fair: some want to collect physical stuff and others want the option to trade. You can't throw both these groups in one large group and suggest they are hypocrites. There's different reasons, that's all.


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## Localhorst86 (Feb 27, 2020)

I understand the convenience of digital games and I know a handfull of people who went "all digital" with their PS4. It's convenient because you can purchase it instantly from your sofa, you don't have to get up to swap the discs, etc.

I myself will prefer a physical copy over a digital one most of the time. Quite often, physical games are cheaper than their digital storefront counterparts - at least in my experience (on all current platforms: Xbox One, PS4 and - to a lesser extent - the Switch). Especially when you're willing to buy used games. Heck, you can borrow a game from a friend for free if you like.
(Practical example: I purchased "Tearaway" or the PS4 for $5 brand new on disc, finished the game, cleaned up everything to get the platinum, then sold it for $7 to gamestop)

Some games don't have any replay value to me, so I can purchase them in a sale or used, play the game and then re-sell it once i'm done. If I purchase a game and it turns out that I don't actually like it, I can sell it and try to minimize my losses (Instead I now "own" 'Heavy Rain' digitally which I'll probably not continue playing.)

Additionally, I do not have the fastest Internet connection speed. So a disc dramatically cuts the ammount of data I need to download. It's faster for me to hop onto my bike, drive 10 minutes to the store and have ~50Gb of Data already "on disc" and only update incremental updates. Quite often, I can even play the game already without having to download anything (Games that don't work at all without an update are still the exception).

Even on current generation consoles, games are pulled because of licensing all the time. Try finding "Forza Motorsport 5" digitally as an example:
you can't. The only way to play that game is to get the disc. Now, in reality, this isn't really that big of an issue, because you can go out and buy the game on ebay for like $5. Unless, of course, you went for the Xbox One S All Digital.

tl;dr: The conveniences of digital games does not outweigh the positives of physical copies for me to go all digital. I'm still gonna buy the occassional title digitally, but will most likely continue using used physical games most of the time.


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## DANTENDO (Feb 27, 2020)

People should just bloody play games no matter what format the game is and anyone not wanting one or the other is just a fool - shit I'd play the game even if the box came out a horses arse though I'd keep the disc and bin the box lol


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## notimp (Feb 27, 2020)

Disneyland fan tells peers, why Disneyland is the perfect form of entertainment. 

nVidia: "We had to take down all Activision games, and all  Square games, apart from one, like you always do with streaming business models, game streaming is a boon.".

Rockstar: "We had to take down GTA4 because of licensing issues, after music licences ran out."

Blizzard: "Warcraft 3 remaster is so good, we took down the original from Battlenet and had everyone rebuy it!"

Microsoft: "Gamepass is the future. Have you also looked at Sea of Thieves? Also the future."

Steam: "Discoverability? Hold my beer."

Retrogamer in 2040: If I want to play a game from my youth, I hope that there is still a youtube video of it around...

Twitch Streamer: Gaming is great. Fortnight even has a checkbox to mute sound for all emotes, for us streamers, so we don't get hit by copyright strikes!

Games media: I drink doritos, and eat mountaindew, then can stream game - if the publisher likes me!

Me: I love easy! (Also buys digital only content.)

Gamestop: We had this exclusive agreement with Microsoft to remain as the only ones who could relicense used games - it was great. Before gamers decided "f'ck that" - now we are bankrupt. Unfair.

Teenager be like: I love Fortnight, it is the most bestest artistically integrity Ive seen in a pink, neon green blob of commercialism since me birth. Now if only I could pay for time slots to get licenses to play that game... Like in Disneyland!

Publisher: We will fix it with a patch.
--

If you dont understand any of that, just remember, that you dont own digital downloads, you only license them (for a period of time). And you dont own streams, which is a little easier for people to get their heads around.


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## FGFlann (Feb 27, 2020)

You can pry my physical games out of my cold, dead hands.


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## KleinesSinchen (Feb 27, 2020)

Taleweaver said:


> […]
> Truth of the matter: I can't even remember last time I opened my DVD tray to insert a disc in. Especially not when not counting windows discs. Nonetheless, I've not gamed less. Rather the contrary.
> Besides: the arguments against it are well documented and solved for those who want it:
> "no ownership" -> GoG
> ...


"gog.com" → Okay✓ Only way I accept games without physical medium. Not locked to a strange client application. No DRM. Will still be usable in decades.
"backup" → Has nothing to do if physical medium exists or not. Any time.
"your disks will deteriorate faster than that" → 1. Doubt it very much. Depends on both the actual disc(s)¹ and server(s). 2. There is more than discs (Mask ROM)
"Truth of the matter: I can't even remember last time I opened my DVD tray to insert a disc in. Especially not when not counting windows discs. Nonetheless, I've not gamed less. Rather the contrary." → good for you
===========

Some people – like myself – enjoy collecting stuff. Seeing children of my age at the beginning of the 1990s throwing away the cardboard packaging of Game Boy cartridges made me shake my little head. Some people cling to photos (digital or analogue). I hate photos. They don't give me anything. Lots of my memories are associated with *things*. VHS recorder and tapes, Super Nintendo carts, fairy tale MCs, books.
My method of keeping memories alive simply does not work with downloads because there is nothing to touch.
========



Slightly off-topic: Can somebody explain (very shortly) why *download only versions* of games are considered to be "*digital*". We are talking about computer programs… I mean… there is digital data on discs and ROM chips as well. "Physical" does not sound like the opposite of "Digital". Never understood this.



____________________
¹ I own two discs from the same pressing with disc rot. They only failed by now because of SafeDisc 2.x copy protection. Data is still usable. All other pressed disc (CDDA, DVD-Video, PlayStation1/2, GameCube, Wii, PC-CDROM/DVD-ROM) some are decades old, show no problems at all. I own over 1000 pressed discs and none of them – other than C&C Red Alert 2 have deteriorated so far. I guess this is a manufacturing defect/bad pressing.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 27, 2020)

OK, opposite-of-boomer.


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## Localhorst86 (Feb 27, 2020)

Hanafuda said:


> OK, opposite-of-boomer.


KO, remoob


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## FGFlann (Feb 27, 2020)

It's Zoomer, you actual boomers.


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## CactusMan (Feb 27, 2020)

The physical games at present time are a buggy mess without day one patch anyway. There are a few exeptations.
If you like collecting fine and if you refuse to play some great games becouse of stubornness. Just do it for all I care. If you want to spent tons of cash on scalpers also fine with me. I´m even fine with people wanting to own physical copys of Tiger Electronic devices. But comes across as mad behaviour to me.


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## FGFlann (Feb 27, 2020)

I would have thought a forum centered around homebrew would take more of a dim view of the current DRM fest of digital gaming.


KleinesSinchen said:


> Slightly off-topic: Can somebody explain (very shortly) why *download only versions* of games are considered to be "*digital*". We are talking about computer programs… I mean… there is digital data on discs and ROM chips as well. "Physical" does not sound like the opposite of "Digital". Never understood this.


It's referred to as the digital market because the entire transaction from purchase to play is done entirely in a "digital" space. No store to walk into and no product to handle.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 27, 2020)

Localhorst86 said:


> KO, remoob




LOL. Yeah can't help it, just a creature of another era. The days of renting games at Blockbuster, the excitement of finding Pikmin2 in good condition in a used bin, the indestructibility of old Nintendo carts, trading, etc. OP makes some good points but I think digital has its share of negatives too. After-release fixes, DRM, DLC, no residual value.


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## notimp (Feb 27, 2020)

CactusMan said:


> The physical games at present time are a buggy mess without day one patch anyway. There are a few exeptations.


Yes.

And thats because?

You all decided, that downloading a patch on day one is fine, so publishers extended development cycles well after the point they did in the past. And nowadays also just release unfinished stuff - because, you always could patch later, if people bought it (and it didn't flop) - and found its a broken mess (No Mans Sky).

Thats largely not the point though. The point is, that consumers loose pretty much every ownership right (culture for the most part), once physical copies vanish entirely.

So day one patches are 'ok' - as long as there is still the 'concept of ownership' - and you only get that with the physical good in play.

Because you cant have physical copies without property rights - that then also makes stuff like "art" possible (You give art away to be art. It has to become part of the public realm.).

If you are in the business to produce entertainment instead - you never let your product go.  Think of it like licensing a gamesbrand. But now apply the same logic to the game itself.

So think of it as it becoming normal, that 'your favorite game' will be unavailable - unable to be recreated, unable to be reused in a derivative fashion, stored away in a corporate rights silo, that then becomes part of that businesses economic evaluation - and never being more than that. If you are lucky, you might get a toy figurine as a token of rememberence, or something.  (Thanks Nintendo.  ) Like in Disneyland.

As 'enhanced by cloud' (wooow!) comes along, servers will always be down one day after the profitability curve demands it.
--


Now the issue is - Gamers.

Because you can always convince the idiots, that believe in popularity as a measure of something being good, that it is in their interest, because it is so easy.

But the key is, that you can convince that bunch of people always to be  entertained by whats popular anyhow - so those are never the people that would care about libraries, culture or conservation.


Now you can look at all digital first distrubution platforms (play store, apples iphone gaming model ..), recognize, that they are all pretty messy - and think that this is by chance. But you can also look at that and see it as what always has to happen, once you take ownership away from consumers. (Everyone looses interest as soon as hype is over, and everyone still tries to flog their games corpses five years after, in the most low effort way possible - because there still could be 20 USD in it.)

That (Entertainment model) is kind of not conducive to culture.

Culture is what you get, when people start recording shows off of TV (when the first VCR arrives).

Now gaming culture isnt the best thing since sliced bread. But at least its around, and at least its ours.

If its only 'theirs' - you will lose interest. And it will start to look bad - over time. Promised. 

CDs/DVDs or not is not the point. Thats mainly just 'people like what they grew up with'. If its cartridges, or discs never matters.

The issue is, that every company thats in the digital space will never sign away the ability to still profit from long tail (old, old) stuff, if they dont have to. And as a result you will end up with corporate content silos where you will always ask if you can pay them to look at it.

And they will always tell you - sure, if you sign this, this and this - and we can be bothered. (GTA4 - gone,...)


Same with gog.com or steam. Those only make sense as a competition model to physical media (steam seasonal sales f.e.). Thats not how digital first ('there only is a digital good of the thing') ecosystems look like.


So we dont have to have the conversation around 'whats best'? Because both (digital download and physical copy) is best. Obviously. But if you get into - no, whats really best - and digital download wins - its properties will change. Piece by piece to be worse, than it is now. 

For all I care you could buy all digital if you'd like to, but make a fuss at the release of every new console, that you will never buy it, if it doesnt also deliver you games as something you can also own. Would be totally fine with me.  (And with digital goods, sadly you have to read the fine print.)

The problem is, that publisher will notice - and once physical media demand falls under a certain threshhold, its content subscriptions and 'the scifi space attraction ride has opened - hype' all the way.  (They will control the environment, use - the entire market (no used games).They will take content away when its no longer profitable, they will lose interest if relicensing of music in a game isnt profitable, ... They will produce a poor kid Kenny (Southpark) consumption tier as an entry level, and thats it.

Remake 20 years later, to profit from nostalgia (thats multiple resale value). But maybe dont put that much effort in it, its not as if people could just as well play a rom of it...


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## Nerdtendo (Feb 27, 2020)

I should have made it clear that I think physical games are cool, and if you only buy physical, I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just the people who say that digital = bad all the time who this is towards. And I've still seen people in this thread say "You don't own the game if you buy digital. It's just a license" Like I said, this is not true. The actual files to the actual program are all present on your hard drive. It is no different than buying a disk with all of those files. Game streaming is buying a license, but that's not what this is about.


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## ghjfdtg (Feb 27, 2020)

I disagree.

Is "digital" convenient? Undoubtedly it is. But you are often paying more for this convenience than getting a physical copy. The physical copy has its license bound to it which allows you to resell it unlike digital and you are still paying more for not beeing able to resell. When the servers are down in the future or they decide to make room for new content you just can't get access to the game legally anymore if you deleted it previously. You can't get the updates for the physical copy either but it's still playable.

The ultimate evolution of this DRM/consumer control system is streaming where they can decide who plays what and when. You lose all control of your purchase and it still costs as much as a physical copy.


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## FGFlann (Feb 27, 2020)

Nerdtendo said:


> The actual files to the actual program are all present on your hard drive. It is no different than buying a disk with all of those files.


This is a point of contention because your ability to use those files can be removed entirely with the way the online services currently function. *NINTENDO* actually does this when they issue an eshop ban.


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Feb 27, 2020)

There are two types of physical: cartridges/SSD or a CD/DVD. The latter just annoying in terms of making sounds (i.e. the disc drive).


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## duwen (Feb 27, 2020)

There are pro's and cons to both. Personally, I prefer physical for a multitude of reasons, but I'm not averse to buying digitally if it's the only option (or cheap enough to not care).

What I am against is the idea that games become a digital *only* medium... essentially lost (or at least 'profile locked' to a specific bit of hardware) when the servers are down/title's delisted/etc. Anyone that wants 'this' future is essentially shitting on game preservation and paving the way for gaming to become 'disposable'.
We should all be rallying for the choice to have either digital or physical - regardless of our own preference.


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## CactusMan (Feb 27, 2020)

I don´t think you realy need phyical copys for Preservation. WiiWare like Final Fantasy : My life as King and Xbox arcade titles are well preserved. It´s just about distrubution and playing games. Gotto love you got multiple options in acomplishing that.


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## eyeliner (Feb 27, 2020)

One day I wanted to have a vast collection of physical games.
Then I got a girlfriend, house, then the girlfriend became my wife. One day, I woke up with two kids wrecking the house.

I don't care for physical games anymore. Whatever is more practical.


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## The Real Jdbye (Feb 27, 2020)

Nerdtendo said:


> I know collections are nice, and it's always reassuring to know you have physical things that can't be lost with a hard drive crash, but it seems like most people are way too quick to dismiss digital games. When you buy digital, you don't have to worry about games getting lost or damaged. You also have the convenience of not having to take the time to put a disk into a console.
> I've heard the argument that "I don't want to pay $60 for access to some code that I can't actually own. Then I can't trade or resell games." This argument is pretty dumb. When you buy a game, you're never paying for the value of the actual physical good, you're paying for the code that makes up the game, i.e. the product. Discs are dirt cheap to manufacture. As for the whole "trading" thing, that's just an unfortunate side effect of the times.
> Tl;Dr:
> Digital games are way more convenient than physical even though physical looks nice



"you don't have to worry about games getting lost or damaged." - You just have to worry about the store shutting down or delisting the game and no longer being able to download your purchases instead. I trust myself not to lose or damage a game more than I trust some storefront that I don't know the people behind.
"that's just an unfortunate side effect of the times." - That doesn't make it OK, that's just excusing their bullshit. They can only do that kind of thing because we let them.
I don't mind buying digital at all on Steam. It's convenient, it's often cheaper, the DRM is non intrusive, and doesn't require online to play games. Digital is pretty nice on PC, and even if you buy a copy in a physical store they're loaded with online-requiring DRM, and sometimes just contain a download code, so you still get the drawbacks of a digital copy, without any of the benefits.
I think very few people care about physical copies on PC anymore because digital has gotten so good, things are a bit different on consoles though.
For example, if the Nintendo eShop was as good as Steam, I might be more inclined to buy my Switch games digitally. There are just too many drawbacks that I would rather deal with the inconvenience of cartridges.


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## zfreeman (Feb 27, 2020)

https://delistedgames.com/about/


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## EmanueleBGN (Feb 27, 2020)

I still prefer to pay for have a material thing.
In digital, you don't buy the game but the licence to play it.
If they close the digital store, you cannot download it again.


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## deinonychus71 (Feb 27, 2020)

Maybe something to take into account in all this is the environmental impact.

I've read studies that it was about the same to buy digital or physical, but it was ages ago. I can't believe the whole manufacturing process + packaging + storing + transport would end up leaving a smaller environmental footprint versus download.


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## notimp (Feb 27, 2020)

deinonychus71 said:


> I've read studies that it was about the same to buy digital or physical, but it was ages ago. I can't believe the whole manufacturing process + packaging + storing + transport would end up leaving a smaller environmental footprint versus download.


Probably not in gaming.

It does in other forms of entertainment, because you have to factor in product generations, average livespan of a 'reader' device, vs. 'bo-ok' (book  ) and so on.

(But if you could be convinced to make individual life decisions based on whats best for climate, you have bigger problems.  (Man has demonstrated that he is master of everything except his own nature. (Henry Miller) kind of logic. ) If you reject personal, or group needs on behalf of needs of the world, you are following a religious concept. And furthermore one, that was proven never to work.

So if you start to pull that logic to guide other peoples actions, you are very close to pronouncing - people have to denounce personal goals, to feel gods love. So in any argument - this is probably the worst sort of reasoning you can provide. And wide spread popularity in your geographical region doesnt make it better.  But no, no - its not god, its science. Ok. Still doesnt change human nature.)


Current example of A+ corporate culture in action:


> Rian Johnson, the writer and director of "Knives Out," revealed that Apple will permit film productions to use its products onscreen, but bad characters can't have an iPhone on camera.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/app...hones-in-movies-says-knives-out-director.html

So be aware who you propose to be your "guardians of culture"..


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## JayMathis (Feb 27, 2020)

Case of someone worrying about what someone else does. If someone wants to have a huge collection of original games in mint shape that costs thousands of dollars total how does it hurt you at all?


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## DANTENDO (Feb 27, 2020)

I think gbatemp should introduce national buy a digital game day and national buy a physical game day


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## ghjfdtg (Feb 27, 2020)

I'm not strictly against digital. It has benefits but for me personally the advantages of physiical are still bigger than digital. And with the DRM cancer not getting better i don't see that changing. I want to use my bought content whenever and where i want without having to worry about losing access.


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## Hanafuda (Feb 27, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> It's Zoomer, you actual boomers.




Hey I'm at least 3 years short of the bracket. Gen X, tyvm.


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## deinonychus71 (Feb 27, 2020)

notimp said:


> Probably not in gaming.
> 
> It does in other forms of entertainment, because you have to factor in product generations, average livespan of a 'reader' device, vs. 'bo-ok' (book  ) and so on.
> 
> ...



I'll try to answer but I might be completely out of context cause I have no idea where any of that came from, especially since unlike OP post I wasn't trying to lecture anyone. I'm just pointing something out.

While it's indeed in our nature to see things in the short term, it doesn't mean we have to be completely oblivious of what's to come. Some of these things could be experienced in our lifetime and therefore impact us directly.

Also, "personal or group needs" are relative. Video games were not a need a century ago, they were not even a thing. We created more needs and with them, more habits. They are not set in stone and are meant to change over time.

Recycling. This is something that is a small bother to all of us, something that "we" weren't used to do, but now a lot of us are just doing it without really thinking about it. It takes us a little more time but we do it out of habit even though not doing it would not impact us one bit.
We don't have to be directly impacted nor even understand what's at stake to make small changes in our everyday lives that have a positive impact, however small it may be.

And I'm born European and have no idea what this so called god or anything religious have anything to do with any of that. It's got to do with politics, if anything.


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## The Catboy (Feb 28, 2020)

I actually prefer having my games digital nowadays, but that's because I had my entire collection stolen from me by my ex and that kind of made me realize how fragile a physical collection can be. Do note, this wasn't a small collection either, I had bookshelves upon bookshelves full of games, I could have opened up a small store with my collection. And it's now gone because I trusted he wouldn't take them when I was living with my friend waiting for my ex to move out of my old apartment. Now I am bit more prone to buy digital games because I really don't want to come home again and see 20+ years of work taken in a few days.


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## JaapDaniels (Feb 28, 2020)

i didn't care for phisical games until origin just stopped the license server of a few NFS games i paid full amount for.
i was blind for the difference it made.but there's no good reason they killed games from playing i bought same price as disc version.specially for it had no online functions.
i don't care for dropping support for patches and fixes, i can find my way around... i cracked the games no problem, but i shouldn't have to crack a legal bought game.
second what's not right about the digital download is that the price is too high for there's no resell valeu on digital downloads.
either rent a game and be honest about you don't wanna put effort in really making a good game.
or sell a game with promise to unlock DRM yourself if you wanna kill the fucking license service.


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## supernintendo128 (Mar 6, 2020)

I honestly just buy physical because I prefer to display my collection on the shelf. I'll buy digital if I absolutely have to but I prefer physical.


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## DarkFlare69 (Mar 6, 2020)

Reasons I like physical:
-Can't lose access to the games if anything happens to your account
-Easily trade or sell games, so there's not much risk to buying a game and wasting money
-My internet can't hold a connection for more than about 15 minutes without dropping and requiring me to restart the console or reconnect, or do something to fix it, so I have trouble downloading anything. This only happens with the Switch and my PC, so even if I wanted to I couldn't buy digital on the Switch, I wouldn't be able to download any games. The ones I do have digital I downloaded while in docked mode, and with Ethernet on PC
-Initial use is faster since no need to download the entire game
-It takes up less space, so why not save some space
-Cheaper (except for switch)


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## Deleted User (Mar 7, 2020)

I bought The Simpsons Arcade on my Xbox 360 when it was on sale, and because it's digital I can't play it right now. I'd need to update my console, go online and update the license or re-download. God dammit, all this to get a digital game working. 

If it was on disc, I'd pop it in and play.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Mar 7, 2020)

I'm not one to buy a physical copy.. However, the one time I do I can't get it because of scalpers.


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## Deleted User (Mar 7, 2020)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I actually prefer having my games digital nowadays, but that's because I had my entire collection stolen from me by my ex and that kind of made me realize how fragile a physical collection can be. Do note, this wasn't a small collection either, I had bookshelves upon bookshelves full of games, I could have opened up a small store with my collection. And it's now gone because I trusted he wouldn't take them when I was living with my friend waiting for my ex to move out of my old apartment. Now I am bit more prone to buy digital games because I really don't want to come home again and see 20+ years of work taken in a few days.


Digital games on the other hand are more like long-term rentals. Like, when the 360/PS3 servers are turned off all those that bought their digital games will at some point begin to require for the license to be renewed (connect to the servers), and then you can't really do that.

Plus, if it's XBLI you can only play them while connected to Xbox 360's servers.

Sigh.. I can always get the console hacked, I guess.


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## DANTENDO (Mar 7, 2020)

Boesy said:


> I bought The Simpsons Arcade on my Xbox 360 when it was on sale, and because it's digital I can't play it right now. I'd need to update my console, go online and update the license or re-download. God dammit, all this to get a digital game working.
> 
> If it was on disc, I'd pop it in and play.


You call tht frustration lol you got it to easy today- think about when some of us had a spectrum 48k and the game kept crashing on the loading screen thts fkin frustration lol


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## Deleted User (Mar 7, 2020)

DANTENDO said:


> You call tht frustration lol you got it to easy today- think about when some of us had a spectrum 48k and the game kept crashing on the loading screen thts fkin frustration lol


At least that eventually loads, digital games either work or don't. lol


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## The Catboy (Mar 8, 2020)

Boesy said:


> Digital games on the other hand are more like long-term rentals. Like, when the 360/PS3 servers are turned off all those that bought their digital games will at some point begin to require for the license to be renewed (connect to the servers), and then you can't really do that.
> 
> Plus, if it's XBLI you can only play them while connected to Xbox 360's servers.
> 
> Sigh.. I can always get the console hacked, I guess.


I kind of see it as a gamble no matter what I do, but this is from a personal hang up. I literally came home to see everything I owned and worked hard for taken from me and it was terrible. Now most of the stuff that was stolen has been ported digitally to different platforms, so I am able to remake my old collection and get some of my favorite games again thanks to the digital market. If something were to happen to this digital market, I do have other options.


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## Localhorst86 (Mar 8, 2020)

Boesy said:


> Digital games on the other hand are more like long-term rentals.



Thats the best way to describe them.for hat reason I usually only purchase digital titles when they are cheap enough. Don't consider them "your property".


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## Jayro (Mar 19, 2020)

I don't like the constant reliance of an internet connection to reinstall my games. reinstalling them from SSD or optical media (ISO mounted counts too) is way faster. I hate that everything requires internet just to play a game, especially when it's single-player and doesn't need to access the internet. I'm also the same type of person who has a vast FLAC music collection and MKV movie collection. I shouldn't need internet to watch movies or listen to music. It's just stupid. Sure, digital has it's advantage of preventing lost, stolen, or broken games, and I get that. But that's about all it has over physical media, besides maybe load times. I buy as many games for my Switch as I can, but I jumped the gun on Sonic Mania, because I din't know Mania Plus would get a physical release later. And I bought Splatoon 2 digitally because I played it so much, it just made sense. Now I can keep another game cart in my Switch at all times. It's a bit more inconvenient swapping carts, but it still feels good having cartridges, and actually owning the games you buy in person. (And I love the cases they come in)


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## RyRyIV (Mar 26, 2020)

I try not to knock digital media, because I recognize it's much more convenient and cost effective. But personally, I LOVE physical media. Movies, games, albums, books... I just love having shelves full of my media. It appeals to the collector in me. I don't downright refuse digital copies, but I will always take the physical option if available.


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## CactusMan (Apr 24, 2020)

https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/doraemon/doraemon-story-of-seasons


I just bought a physical copy of this game to own the libs


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 24, 2020)

I think if you consider yourself "hardcore" you owe it to gaming to be a bit of a preservationist to some degree. Unless you are trading in games you beat and deleting digital games from your system as soon as you play them, you are game collector to some degree whether you like the term or not. Can you really be "hardcore" if you haven't been gaming for some time? Nobody pics up a controller and decides to be a game collector. You just acquire games and before you know it, you have a collection to maintain.

To be frank it's none of your goddamn business what I do with my games or really anything that pertains to my personal enjoyment. If I want to have a shelf stacked with games, that's my burden and that's what it is, a burden. If I ever move, I will have to spend valuable time re-organizing my games and systems, set up all the proper switches and cables to play them and additional hardware to enable the ability to capture footage. It's a certain lifestyle that I have willfully adopted. I too have adopted the scorn that comes with it.

If another gamer has a problem with my collecting, that's tough. Nobody should worry about how I play my games or how I maintain my collection. Give me games and you get a say but I would rather have these very treasured titles collecting dust but bringing me fleeting pleasure than sitting in a dumpster behind Gamestop or soaking up soil in a landfill somewhere.

They are never going to unearth a landfill for a copy of your favorite game like they did with E.T.. If you love games, you have a personal responsibility to protect the games you love. Or simply don't. It's your life, right?


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## Deleted User (Apr 24, 2020)

digital games are cool, cuz you can get them even if physical is sold out. Also games like P3P are still in psn store, for a price lower than physical, but i like having physical, also gives me the ability to resell if wanted.


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 24, 2020)

Riyaz said:


> digital games are cool, cuz you can get them even if physical is sold out. Also games like P3P are still in psn store, for a price lower than physical, but i like having physical, also gives me the ability to resell if wanted.



That's kind of what people don't like about digital copies as well though. It's fine and dandy when your console still has active servers where you can download your game whenever.

It's another story when a game gets taken down or is no longer obtainable through *ahem* legitimate means. 

And that's not to say that great games are always going to be obtainable. Just look at P.T. or Scott Pilgrim, classic examples of games you can no longer legally obtain through online services. I guess the same could be said about hard to find physical copies since only so many are made. These are the pros and cons, the reason preservation is important. 

A completely digital world is a world where games go missing and disappear from existence.


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## Pacheko17 (Apr 24, 2020)

Fucking zoomers smh. Digital will always be better for PC, but fuck what the console manufacturers are doing.


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## gamesquest1 (Apr 24, 2020)

personally I find digital only gamers are much too concerned with physical only gamers preferences, I don't see any physical only gamers saying "We shouldn't have any digital games, and people asking for digital copies of games should shut their damn mouths and do what I prefer".......just "wouldn't it be nice to have a physical copy because there are legitimate reasons why people would prefer to have a copies of the game they can share and sell as they wish instead of being obligated to keep the game forever and never being able to get any of their money back unless they get a refund within 2 hours"

I don't think I have ever seen anyone legitimately argue there should be physical only releases, I don't give a crap if someone wants to buy a digital copy of a switch game when you can buy a second hand cart for less than half the price

but if/when its digital or nothing, don't be surprised when game prices are just stuck forever at the original launch RRP, without the free market to put pressure on devs to reduce prices over time the prices will stay higher for longer


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 24, 2020)

Pacheko17 said:


> Fucking zoomers smh. Digital will always be better for PC, but fuck what the console manufacturers are doing.



I think companies like Nintendo finally realize that by controlling the exclusivity of their games, it gives them leverage and the opportunity to get paid more than once for the same title.

It's a nasty practice but at least companies like Limited Run Games are making physical copies a thing, even if they are niche and inherently elitist.


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## Pacheko17 (Apr 24, 2020)

Wii_Shaker said:


> I think companies like Nintendo finally realize that by controlling the exclusivity of their games, it gives them leverage and the opportunity to get paid more than once for the same title.
> 
> It's a nasty practice but at least companies like Limited Run Games are making physical copies a thing, even if they are niche and inherently elitist.



I don't mind LRG being elitist at all, just wish it was easier to get them, specially down here.

And calling Nintendo when I lost my 3DS and was trying to transfer stuff over to my 2DS and finding out it couldn't be done because they don't support my region when it would've taken literally no extra effort was heartbreaking. I'm trying to go all-physical for expensive games, digital for cheaper games and pirated for games I can't get (not due to price but to availability).


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 24, 2020)

Pacheko17 said:


> I don't mind LRG being elitist at all, just wish it was easier to get them, specially down here.
> 
> And calling Nintendo when I lost my 3DS and was trying to transfer stuff over to my 2DS and finding out it couldn't be done because they don't support my region when it would've taken literally no extra effort was heartbreaking. I'm trying to go all-physical for expensive games, digital for cheaper games and pirated for games I can't get (not due to price but to availability).



It sounds like dealing with Nintendo's support where you are would be a living nightmare. I dealt with them once to transfer Wii games and it sucked. They truly are a stingy lot. 

Even in the states the limited physical copies are hard to get, unless you have the cash to pre-order everything you want, which isn't realistic. The more established collectors snatch them up immediately. You snooze, you lose, as they say.


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## WarioWaffles (Apr 24, 2020)

Digital games on consoles is horrible but if piracy was way harder and slower I'd be upset with digital games on PC too.


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 24, 2020)

WarioWaffles said:


> Digital games on consoles is horrible but if piracy was way harder and slower I'd be upset with digital games on PC too.


Totally. Pick your poison though. Eventually it will be easy as cake to crack modern consoles as they are more and more dumbed-down PCs each generation. I think hardware manufacturers are realizing this and starting to shit themselves a bit.

Also, I agree. Those hacky Russians are doing the lord's work.


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## jeffyTheHomebrewer (Apr 24, 2020)

I agree. Sure, it's nice to have a little gamebox to fiddle with, I'd just rather to 1, 2, 3, and done to switch between games instead of:
1. Get out of bed
2. Find two game boxes for both games
3. Put game 1 into its box
4. Take game 2 out of its box
5. Put game 2 into console (or pc/mac, i dont care)
6. start game

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Wii_Shaker said:


> Totally. Pick your poison though. Eventually it will be easy as cake to crack modern consoles as they are more and more dumbed-down PCs each generation. I think hardware manufacturers are realizing this and starting to shit themselves a bit.
> 
> Also, I agree. Those hacky Russians are doing the lord's work.


I also agree. Sure, when I "obtained" Sony Vegas Pro 14, the you know what I mean didn't have any chiptunes, but it was in all russian. Luckly I understood most of the buttons just from memory of other installshield-based installers. And no, I didn't get Bonzi Buddy's cousin, ether. And after that sony vegas was in full english so thats good

Anyway, the Russians are good at piracy, and Le french are good at porting windows to Le Nintendo DS


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 26, 2020)

jeffyTheHomebrewer said:


> Anyway, the Russians are good at piracy, and Le french are good at porting windows to Le Nintendo DS



I'm very interested in running Windows on DS. Is there a link for more info? I did a quick search on the DS forum but I might have been in the wrong board.


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## jeffyTheHomebrewer (Apr 27, 2020)

Search for Wintendos XP. You'll find it, but it's more of a recreation than anything, but File Explorer, Notepad, and Minesweeper work! (1st 2 really only work when ran via flashcart)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Plus back then the DSi wasn't out yet so they couldn't do a full port, but I think you can run XP on a switch


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## Wii_Shaker (Apr 27, 2020)

jeffyTheHomebrewer said:


> Search for Wintendos XP. You'll find it, but it's more of a recreation than anything, but File Explorer, Notepad, and Minesweeper work! (1st 2 really only work when ran via flashcart)
> 
> Plus back then the DSi wasn't out yet so they couldn't do a full port, but I think you can run XP on a switch


It makes sense on Switch. I'm not surprised it can run XP with a little tinkering. 

XP on DS looks pretty sweet though. I wonder if it's actually running the OS or just a program built to replicate the feel of it. Either way, pretty impressive to see something like that on DS.


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## jeffyTheHomebrewer (Apr 27, 2020)

Made to replicate the feel.


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## Krispyboi (May 13, 2020)

I think the reason people obsess over physical copies is because of a small sense of nostalgia.
Nostalgia of back in the ol' days when you had to go outside and buy games in person at a shop then come back home to open up the box and put it into the console. When you didn't have to just sit in front of a screen and plug in your credit card number for 5 minutes. Nostalgia is great, everyone loves memories of doing fun stuff as a kid but I think the people that obsess over physical copies just try way too hard to keep holding on to that nostalgic feeling.


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## FAST6191 (May 13, 2020)

Krispyboi said:


> I think the reason people obsess over physical copies is because of a small sense of nostalgia.
> Nostalgia of back in the ol' days when you had to go outside and buy games in person at a shop then come back home to open up the box and put it into the console. When you didn't have to just sit in front of a screen and plug in your credit card number for 5 minutes. Nostalgia is great, everyone loves memories of doing fun stuff as a kid but I think the people that obsess over physical copies just try way too hard to keep holding on to that nostalgic feeling.


How many people back then got given games as gifts? Or only played given games round a friend's house? Or maybe rented them? Like I don't think I technically ever owned (or pirated) a copy of GTA 3 or vice city but I played them enough that even all these years later I can still remember the cheats, story beats and probably most of the map (or at least where a bulk of the game took place).

Don't get me wrong I have even heard "I don't want flash carts because I want a label, smell and annoyances of carts", and any amount of people willing to put in some serious coin to get/make a repro for similar reasons, and could well see that being a factor for some. As anything close to a dominant factor in the debate? No chance.


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## linuxares (May 13, 2020)

Physical = I actually own it.
Digital = I hope I can always own it.


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## gamesquest1 (May 13, 2020)

its simply about freedom simply, am I free to do what I want with the game I bought, can I resell it and recoup part of my original investment, can I give it to a friend if I don't like it, can I "regift" it to someone else if I forget about their birthday and don't want to seem like a jerk, do I want to be able to play the game still in however many years or do I have to just hope Sony/Nintendo/MS are still supporting redownloading on older systems

not only that, its also about freedom to find a bargain or wait a few months to when people are reselling at a price im more willing to pay, if all games are digital only prices will stay inflated much longer, I have found some real good bargain on games a few weeks after release, where the brand new retail price is £60 and I get the game for £15/20 because the original owner needs some quick cash or something, both me and the seller are much happier to have that option than they be screwed and not have that quick cash to cover an unexpected bill and I would either have to pay the full £60 or wait 2 years till the devs finally drop the price, the only winner in a digital only marketplace are publishers and developers who get to rake in probably 5 times the cash over the life of the game as people have no freedom to choose second hand copies you gain nothing, the prices would be just as high, and stay that high much longer without any competition to buy from


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## nxwing (May 13, 2020)

I try and go physical as much as possible. Nostalgia plays a factor but my unstable and sometimes slow internet connection plays an even bigger factor. There's also the fact that if I want to, I can easily sell my copy or lend it to a friend for borrowing.


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## Hielkenator2 (May 13, 2020)

Clearly you did not experience the video game crash in the 80's.
Besides the fact this has nothing to do with the quality of games nowadays, the fact that ANY publisher can choose to delist or REMOVE the game YOU BOUGHT, just does not seem fair. What did you invest in AIR? It is like the game you bought is stolen, when that happens. And it has happened to me btw.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Nerdtendo said:


> I know collections are nice, and it's always reassuring to know you have physical things that can't be lost with a hard drive crash, but it seems like most people are way too quick to dismiss digital games. When you buy digital, you don't have to worry about games getting lost or damaged. You also have the convenience of not having to take the time to put a disk into a console.
> I've heard the argument that "I don't want to pay $60 for access to some code that I can't actually own. Then I can't trade or resell games." This argument is pretty dumb. When you buy a game, you're never paying for the value of the actual physical good, you're paying for the code that makes up the game, i.e. the product. Discs are dirt cheap to manufacture. As for the whole "trading" thing, that's just an unfortunate side effect of the times.
> Tl;Dr:
> Digital games are way more convenient than physical even though physical looks nice


You will still have to buy media to store your games on especially on Switch.


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## ::Phoenix:: (May 13, 2020)

I think here the issue over which people always discuss is not even physical vs digital. The real matter here is DRM. If digital was only DRM free, and *all* games were available digitally DRM free, most people in this thread would more easily converge to a consensus. DRM is the worst thing that could happen to gaming, not its digital distribution.


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## rmorris003 (May 13, 2020)

I prefer the cheapest price but I love the convenience of digital as my XB collection is mostly digital while my PS4 collection is half and half because I primary use my XB. PS4 has no tax for Canada so that is also a bonus.


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## gamesquest1 (May 13, 2020)

::Phoenix:: said:


> I think here the issue over which people always discuss is not even physical vs digital. The real matter here is DRM. If digital was only DRM free, and *all* games were available digitally DRM free, most people in this thread would more easily converge to a consensus. DRM is the worst thing that could happen to gaming, not its digital distribution.


being brutally honest I can see why they want DRM, if every game was DRM free (which would probably also cover piracy protection on game disks) they would certainly loose a lot of sales, the main issue is they want to have their cake and eat it, if they could just stop being greedy fucks and honour the system of being allowed to sell the item you purchased then everything would be fine DRM or not as long as it isn't obnoxiously overzealous DRM, instead its like buying clothes and being forced to chain them to your wardrobe for life, no your friend can't borrow your suit for a funeral, no you can't give your cousin those shoes he likes that don't fit anymore, it can only ever be worn by you EVER


rmorris003 said:


> I prefer digital when the games are on sale because it means I do not have to run out to get it and PS4 has no tax for Canada.


see this is the issue, here, I don't think anyone who prefers physical games cares in the slightest if someone prefers digital only, more power to you, if its what you prefer thats great, just some digital only advocates seem to want to remove the choice from other people out of spite or malice or something which is honestly kinda weird unless you own shares or something in the likes of EA


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## ::Phoenix:: (May 13, 2020)

gamesquest1 said:


> being brutally honest I can see why they want DRM, if every game was DRM free (which would probably also cover piracy protection on game disks) they would certainly loose a lot of sales, the main issue is they want to have their cake and eat it, if they could just stop being greedy fucks and honour the system of being allowed to sell the item you purchased then everything would be fine DRM or not as long as it isn't obnoxiously overzealous DRM, instead its like buying clothes and being forced to chain them to your wardrobe for life, no your friend can't borrow your suit for a funeral, no you can't give your cousin those shoes he likes that don't fit anymore, it can only ever be worn by you EVER



The problem is that keeping DRM would imply that even if you could transfer/sell your game to someone else, this would still be bound the storefront/service you are using. So if it goes down, your right of trasnferring the game disappears immediately. It is the inability of "physically" coping a digital game without relying on an online service the real issue.

I agree that DRM will never disappear, however, I don't find impossible the fact that having everything DRM free would, contrary to intuition, lower piracy, as most cracking groups crack games exactly for two reasons: removing DRM, and for the glory of being the first of cracking the DRM. With no DRM around, this would possibly go away, and storefront could still exist easing downloading and playing of games, rather than downloading some rar on a website.


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## Goku1992A (May 13, 2020)

Let's just say if you get banned you wont have access to redownload your digital games again. You cant even resell them neither. Its too many drawbacks with digital.


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## FAST6191 (May 13, 2020)

::Phoenix:: said:


> The problem is that keeping DRM would imply that even if you could transfer/sell your game to someone else, this would still be bound the storefront/service you are using. So if it goes down, your right of trasnferring the game disappears immediately. It is the inability of "physically" coping a digital game without relying on an online service the real issue.
> 
> I agree that DRM will never disappear, however, I don't find impossible the fact that having everything DRM free would, contrary to intuition, lower piracy, as most cracking groups crack games exactly for two reasons: removing DRM, and for the glory of being the first of cracking the DRM. With no DRM around, this would possibly go away, and storefront could still exist easing downloading and playing of games, rather than downloading some rar on a website.



Third party verification could be a thing, and while in some ways it shifts the burden it can be done in such a way as to either release things following storefront failure or be all but immune to it.

Likewise music was considered to be DRM encumbered if you went legit or did not rip your CDs yourself (though even then microsoft tried it on there), something no vendor nor record label would ever consider... right up until they didn't.
Maybe that was a function of storage size, bandwidth, side channels and mode of use but they are all going one way as a historical thing.


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## yoyoyo69 (May 13, 2020)

I know digital is nice, and it's always reassuring to know you don't have the risk of scratching discs, but it seems like most people are way too quick to dismiss physical games. When you buy physical, you don't have to worry about games being taken down or removed lost / damaged or the fact they are resalable. You also have the convenience of not having download the entire disc worth of contents onto a console.
I've heard the argument that "I don't want to pay $30 for access to some disc that I actually own. Then I can trade or resell games." This argument is pretty accurate. When you buy a game, you are not held to ransom (as much) by developers or publishers. Also when you pay for the code that makes up the game, i.e. the product. Discs are dirt cheap to manufacture (but a pointless example as you are not permitted to burn your own copy, so you are in effect buying the disc). As for the whole "trading" thing, that's just an unfortunate side effect of the times. (also nonsense, trading has ALWAYS been a thing with physical)
Tl;Dr:
Physical games are way more convenient than digital even though digital doesn't require a disc.

On a serious note:

Discs have benefits and digital downloads won't be around forever.

Once physical is gone, gaming will become much more expensive.

Once digital downloads are gone, future generations will be paying constant subscriptions to access content, for a limited time.

I suspect they will be repurchasing, remakes too after a while.

Money, it's all about money, as all things are.

I intentionally kept the formatting.


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## Jokey_Carrot (May 13, 2020)

The thing about digital game sis once the servers are gone they disappear and can only be found on romsites or on console harddrives. It's even worse when the game has always online drm and can't be played.


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## 64bitmodels (May 31, 2020)

digital all day everyday
people are talking about how once the shop goes down the games go down and thats bullshit, digital has way better preservation qualities than any other form of media
if a game goes down on steam youll always find a pirated copy on igg games
plus steam has the biggest modding community, has the most games, is the highest populated digital storefront, etc
Im sorry but you guys are really getting your tits tangled up over ownership and whatnot
Nintendo eshop, once you download the games theyre saved onto your sd card (or nand if youre a masochist) and you barely have to worry about updates, which unfortunately, may take a lot of time as most of them are of the long, long time of _*3 fucking seconds. *_
the only time where youd have to worry about download speeds is if youre downloading a newly bought game/transferring data, when in big chunks, yea it can take quite a while, but its way better than having a copy of the game that can break at any time assuming you dont take good care of it
i had a dvd copy of sonic generations back when i was 6,  loved that game so much, played it a lot on my 360 and then wham the god damned thing just stopped working due to being scratched, and i got sonic unleashed of all games as a replacement. you ever consider that children could break a copy and lose 10- 60 god damned smackeroos??
also, there's this little feature, im not sure if youve heard about it but on the switch it allows you to launch the software without having to download the update, i think that's right on the update screen when they show it to you.
the only defense people have is ownership and frankly i dont care, as long as i can play games with or without mods its good to me. its not like once the store closes down all the digital games youve bought will just dissappear or something unless youre using steam, which is still bullshit since you shouldve downloaded them before the shop closed!! companies usually announce this sort of stuff so people can prepare in advance!!! also knowing valve theyd probably release a utility or tool to remove the steam DRM from all your games after/before the storefront dies
and before anyone comes up and says " well then you should be supporting streaming" theres a difference, when the game goes down it gets removed from your library, unlike digital games which just stay until you uninstall them, also streaming has more latency, and is online all the time whereas digital has less latency and can be played offline


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## spinal_cord (May 31, 2020)

I prefer physical copied over downloads for one main reason. 'Big Videogame' have no way of preventing me from playing a 30 year old game if I want to. However, games downloaded from some sort of service will always rely on that service being there. If 'Big Videogame' decides to remove a game from there servers, or remove a back-end service that the game requires, the people simply can never play that game again. My enjoyment of gaming should not EVER depend on the publishing company/services still existing in a decades time. If I pay £30-£100 for a game, I want  to OWN that game and I want to play it even if I have no internet connection or the company has gone bust or my HDD has failed.


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## tech3475 (May 31, 2020)

Here's why I prefer physical on console:
1) I don't like all my games being tied to an account, if something were to happen to the account then I could lose my games.
2) I often find physical can be cheaper outside of maybe a sale (Doom Eternal Xbox One on Amazon is currently £39.99 but on XBL it's £54.99)
3) DRM, for example, when my internet went down on my non-home Xbone I was locked out of my games

On PC I'm more accepting but then I have less of a choice, although most physical releases I see are just codes and disc based DRM can be more of an issue, such as the time I tried to play a couple of disc based DRM games but the DRM prevented me and these days DVD drives are more rarely found internally on laptops.


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## FAST6191 (May 31, 2020)

64bitmodels said:


> digital all day everyday
> people are talking about how once the shop goes down the games go down and thats bullshit, digital has way better preservation qualities than any other form of media
> if a game goes down on steam youll always find a pirated copy on igg games



The lack of self awareness... that is impressive.



64bitmodels said:


> Im sorry but you guys are really getting your tits tangled up over ownership and whatnot


The option to buy games others are done with and resell those I am done with is a thing not worth pushing for?


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## 64bitmodels (May 31, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> The lack of self awareness... that is impressive.
> 
> 
> The option to buy games others are done with and resell those I am done with is a thing not worth pushing for?


I have no business with resale tbh, the only time id use it is when that particular game isnt getting made copies anymore and the digital storefront is dead, but in that case i would probably be able to emulate it on pc since the console would be old AF by the time that happens.
Also what's with me having a 'lack of self awareness'? Wasn't everything i stated right?? if a game goes down there will most likely be a site that helps with archiving the digital formats of those games- i mean look at wiiware and its closure in early 2019- there are sites up today with the wad files of these games readily available for download.


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## FGFlann (May 31, 2020)

There are several contradictions in your reasoning. Such as DVDs being breakable but not applying that same standard to SD cards, which are even more prone to data degradation. In the case of digital store fronts you also advocate downloading your entire library of games to preserve it, which is obviously limited by your ability to store data. Not always feasible depending on the size of your library, and subject to the same limitations of degradable physical media. Also your ability to use this data is often times limited by your ability to access that particular online service.

Perhaps the most egregious suggestion is that your solution to physical video game preservation is to break the law.


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## FAST6191 (May 31, 2020)

64bitmodels said:


> I have no business with resale tbh, the only time id use it is when that particular game isnt getting made copies anymore and the digital storefront is dead, but in that case i would probably be able to emulate it on pc since the console would be old AF by the time that happens.
> Also what's with me having a 'lack of self awareness'? Wasn't everything i stated right?? if a game goes down there will most likely be a site that helps with archiving the digital formats of those games- i mean look at wiiware and its closure in early 2019- there are sites up today with the wad files of these games readily available for download.



Your personal use of resale options is besides the point really. The lack of option to resell, and thus effective lack of ownership, is however one enjoyed by everything else in life and physical games, the only reason you don't in downloadable games is because lawyers or arsehole business types.

So downloadable games are generally (online only DRM might not be cracked in time, there are a few unplayable games already out there) made available by third parties, just like ROMs of physical games have been for... longer than the internet really.
Both represent a failure of the market and the market, or a segment thereof, working around it but it is still a failure. Downloadable games is not a solution to it though, and with the lack of resale also means that when things don't go in some hypothetical future (I do like to remind people at this point plenty of big companies have shuttered DRM encumbered services and also plenty of others have gone bankrupt) but 3 years later when some music owner, owner of car/gun/texture, general IP holder or whatever says nah not renewing.
That would be the lack of awareness.


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## 64bitmodels (May 31, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> There are several contradictions in your reasoning. Such as DVDs being breakable but not applying that same standard to SD cards, which are even more prone to data degradation. In the case of digital store fronts you also advocate downloading your entire library of games to preserve it, which is obviously limited by your ability to store data. Not always feasible depending on the size of your library, and subject to the same limitations of degradable physical media. Also your ability to use this data is often times limited by your ability to access that particular online service.
> 
> Perhaps the most egregious suggestion is that your solution to physical video game preservation is to break the law.


if a game can't fit on my current storage then tbh i probably don't need it, which isnt a problem in my eyes because adequate storage is easy to come across, and you probably already have it in your pc/console
ps4 and xbox one have 1tb models, and switch, while only at 32gigs, has readily available cards made specifically for the switch
Also maybe its because i havent been using them very much but SD cards have never broke on me once, unlike dvds which ive lost on multiple occasions.
this is why i have a bias against physical, its just too easy for me to lose
hell i lost a whole collection of wii u games when moving once, cant do that with digital


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## FAST6191 (May 31, 2020)

If a console has no games how can you lose a game collection?


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## Nerdtendo (May 31, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> There are several contradictions in your reasoning. Such as DVDs being breakable but not applying that same standard to SD cards, which are even more prone to data degradation. In the case of digital store fronts you also advocate downloading your entire library of games to preserve it, which is obviously limited by your ability to store data. Not always feasible depending on the size of your library, and subject to the same limitations of degradable physical media. Also your ability to use this data is often times limited by your ability to access that particular online service.
> 
> Perhaps the most egregious suggestion is that your solution to physical video game preservation is to break the law.


Yes SD cards are breakable, but it is infinitely easier to make a backup of your SD card contents than a DVD. Also, hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. The same is true for personal cloud storage services. The solution to video game preservation has always been to break the law. When push comes to shove, the best way to protect the content of games is to put it online in multiple places. That how it always has been. I'm not here to discuss the legality of it, merely the preservation factor. Like I said, I think physical games are great. If you have a huge collection that's great. I just can't stand seeing people actually demean others because they prefer playing digitally.


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## FGFlann (May 31, 2020)

Nerdtendo said:


> Yes SD cards are breakable, but it is infinitely easier to make a backup of your SD card contents than a DVD. Also, hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. The same is true for personal cloud storage services. The solution to video game preservation has always been to break the law. When push comes to shove, the best way to protect the content of games is to put it online in multiple places. That how it always has been. I'm not here to discuss the legality of it, merely the preservation factor. Like I said, I think physical games are great. If you have a huge collection that's great. I just can't stand seeing people actually demean others because they prefer playing digitally.


"Infinitely?" A little hyperbolic, also completely ancillary to the point that anything can be damaged. As far as long term storage goes, optical discs are still the best choice when stored in optimal conditions. They will last longer than any hard drive on the market and can't be erased at the whim of companies like Google. Video game preservation is more about preserving items in their original form. Cartridges and consoles, not simply the game data itself.

This is why it's now a problem, because the 'game', as it were, has changed and those cartridges/discs are disappearing. Leaving us at the mercy of a product without a physical form that we can't truly preserve in its original state.


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## Nerdtendo (May 31, 2020)

FGFlann said:


> "Infinitely?" A little hyperbolic, also completely ancillary to the point that anything can be damaged. As far as long term storage goes, optical discs are still the best choice when stored in optimal conditions. They will last longer than any hard drive on the market and can't be erased at the whim of companies like Google. Video game preservation is more about preserving items in their original form. Cartridges and consoles, not simply the game data itself.
> 
> This is why it's now a problem, because the 'game', as it were, has changed and those cartridges/discs are disappearing. Leaving us at the mercy of a product without a physical form that we can't truly preserve in its original state.


A little hyperbole never hurt anyone. Although I stand by the statement that it is infinitely easier to stick an SD card into my computer and make backups than try to circumvent the copy protection on a DVD. 

I disagree that video game preservation is about preservation in the original form. The form many games were originally presented in are now outdated and incredibly prone to failure. I think it's better that donkey Kong country is playable after the chunky gray plastic it was surrounded by is rotted away.

The same is true for something like music. We had records, cassettes, CDs, and now mostly MP3 files. The music is still preserved even though there are far fewer audio casettes these days. 

Also, I haven't seen anybody address the convenience factor of digital games which I believe is a huge draw.


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## FGFlann (May 31, 2020)

Nerdtendo said:


> A little hyperbole never hurt anyone. Although I stand by the statement that it is infinitely easier to stick an SD card into my computer and make backups than try to circumvent the copy protection on a DVD.
> 
> I disagree that video game preservation is about preservation in the original form. The form many games were originally presented in are now outdated and incredibly prone to failure. I think it's better that donkey Kong country is playable after the chunky gray plastic it was surrounded by is rotted away.
> 
> ...


It's not addressed because I doubt anyone would dispute it. It's obviously better to have them at hand than require extra steps to switch games. What matters to people is if that is worth the trade off of losing everything else.

I can't do much about your opinion of what preservation truly is, we will simply have to agree to disagree.


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## ReigningSemtex (May 31, 2020)

I would always rather buy physical and there's nobody that could change my mind on that. When a license expires a digital game is lost to time.


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## SrceJunacko (Jun 1, 2020)

Look, owning a disc copy is the real thing. You have it in your hands for the price you accept to pay. It remains forever. Share it, sell it, rent it, burn it do whatever you want to. Yet you have to change the disc every time you play another game on a disc version as a digital copy is ready to go once you have downloaded it. Furthermore, the disc version gives you the possibility to install the v1.00 of the game with the freeesh smell when opening it.


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## jeffyTheHomebrewer (Jun 5, 2020)

64bitmodels said:


> digital all day everyday
> people are talking about how once the shop goes down the games go down and thats bullshit, digital has way better preservation qualities than any other form of media
> if a game goes down on steam youll always find a pirated copy on igg games
> plus steam has the biggest modding community, has the most games, is the highest populated digital storefront, etc
> ...


I agree. Also, my dog (Bless 'im) chewed up my copy of sonic generations a few weeks ago, and I just replaced it a few days ago.


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## Deleted User (Oct 26, 2020)

Sorry for butting in.
Yea Digital is cool and its awsome for games you 
A. Cant find easily
B. Are expensive physically
And i respect that but man i cant really follow. Maybe cause i play casually, so rare copies dont matter but keeping track of them do and MAN do consoles bug out half the time and last for like 3 or 4 years? I guess thats what i mean sorry OP...


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Nov 10, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> If a console has no games how can you lose a game collection?


That’s why I prefer Xbox


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## jimbo13 (Nov 10, 2020)

I don't need a media disc perse but I will severe the chain a corporation is keeping on data I have acquired at every opportunity.  But fun packages were a good part of gaming. I still remember the smell of a cartridge, a quality manual dust sleeve that doesn't have oily finger prints all over it.   The unboxing was a experience.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 10, 2020)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> FAST6191 said:
> 
> 
> > If a console has no games how can you lose a game collection?
> ...



I will give the Xbone has no games, mainly as this last generation has produced nothing of terribly great note so far.
If you think the original xbox and 360 are lacking then you either have a very very very specific taste or have not been looking.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Nov 11, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> I will give the Xbone has no games, mainly as this last generation has produced nothing of terribly great note so far.
> If you think the original xbox and 360 are lacking then you either have a very very very specific taste or have not been looking.


Well I meant Xbox one


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## Stwert (Nov 12, 2020)

It’s a personal choice, buy from wherever you like and just enjoy gaming.

Personally, I like a physical copy wherever possible because I know in 40 years time, I can still use it - I don’t trust any digital services to still be around and still giving me access to my purchases.

But if there’s a digital only game I want, I’ll buy it. I’m reasonably sure that even in 40 years time, if a service has disappeared, the system will probably be hacked and my purchases can be obtained that way.


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## Deleted User (Nov 24, 2020)

from the preservation standpoint: i play on pc so piracy has the side effect of pretty much presering anything
from the trading standpoint: steam luckily has the sharing feature, sure, not as good, but it's something, would be nice if you could trade games using the same system in place for items, not really going to happen, but it would be nice
from a collectors standpoint: yeah, pieces of code are not that fun to collect


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## zxr750j (Nov 24, 2020)

When I buy games I like my pc games digital and my 3ds and Switch games physical. Having multiple console systems (3ds's and Switches) it makes switching the games much more convenient. But when I reinstall my gaming PC it's easier to re-download digital copies of the games (you've got to reinstall them anyway). I could talk about resell value but I never sell games I buy: I bought them for a reason...


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## shanks_ (Nov 24, 2020)

Digital is more convenient, but in terms of longevity physical copies are a must. Due to the fickle nature of digital media, especially as we near the DMCA era, games that aren't available physically may not be around for future generations to enjoy as retro entertainment (see P.T.) This would prevent them from seeing generational success in terms of resonating with players across multiple generations.


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

shanks_ said:


> Digital is more convenient, but in terms of longevity physical copies are a must. Due to the fickle nature of digital media, especially as we near the DMCA era, games that aren't available physically may not be around for future generations to enjoy as retro entertainment (see P.T.) This would prevent them from seeing generational success in terms of resonating with players across multiple generations.


so long as there is a pc version, it will be preserved due to piracy, PT (and scott pilgrim to add another example) were lost due to being only on console, the right path would be to ask for all games to have a propper pc version, even if you dont like pc gaming, at least there will be a preserved version that future generations will be able to play even years in the future (technically piracy does preserve console games too, but it has gotten too hard to remain viable)


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## gregory-samba (Nov 25, 2020)

Digital only sucks.


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## linkinworm (Nov 25, 2020)

i only really buy physical still when i plan on reselling the game, doom eternal for instance i knew it would drop in price almost instantly but i still paid £50 for it, and got £35 back a week later after 100% it. other physical copies i buy will only really be from work because i can get them for about half the price they sell anywhere else (mainly cex) and abuot 1/3 the prices of ebay, other than that i like to own nintnedo physical carts because ill end up playing that one game for longer if i have to put some effort into playing it in the 1st place


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

linkinworm said:


> i only really buy physical still when i plan on reselling the game, doom eternal for instance i knew it would drop in price almost instantly but i still paid £50 for it, and got £35 back a week later after 100% it. other physical copies i buy will only really be from work because i can get them for about half the price they sell anywhere else (mainly cex) and abuot 1/3 the prices of ebay, other than that i like to own nintnedo physical carts because ill end up playing that one game for longer if i have to put some effort into playing it in the 1st place


yeah, but you could always wait for a pricedrop, if you bought it for 50 gbp and got 35 gbp back, it means you paid 15 in escence, but take for example what i did for doom 2016, i had it in my wishlist for a while, and then on 2020/06/25 i bought it for 143 uyu (about 3 usd)


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## Jayro (Nov 25, 2020)

I like having something to show for my money. I also like physical media. The fact that some games for Switch only come out on cartridge thanks to third-parties like Limited Run Games is a bit upsetting. This transition to digital and god-forbid, "cloud streaming" is absolute trash in my eyes. Flash storage is cheap now, I just wish disc-based games would fuck off onto a USB C game card or similar for future consoles. Give us like 3 USB C ports on the console, so we don't have to change games out too often, and we'd be set. I'm just not a fan of digital games because eventually you won't be able to download what you purchased. The Nintendo Wii is a great example of this. Fuck anyone that spent money in the eShop I guess, right? I've been a physical collector since my very first Gameboy in 1991, and I'll be damned if I ever buy a "digital-only" console. Not on my life. PC went all-digital already, but that was for the best honestly. Steam isn't going anywhere, so I have confidence that my games are staying put. But I low-key do miss having these small game boxes above my desk to hold the installation and play discs.


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## linkinworm (Nov 25, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> yeah, but you could always wait for a pricedrop, if you bought it for 50 gbp and got 35 gbp back, it means you paid 15 in escence, but take for example what i did for doom 2016, i had it in my wishlist for a while, and then on 2020/06/25 i bought it for 143 uyu (about 3 usd)


yeah i could have waited but its still about £25 or wait till we got a copy come in at work which could take too long, and i just really wanted to play the game, i only do this with a select few games a year. 

but then theres also the fact that with digital if i know ill never replay it again, i dont play online much, dooms online mode isnt enough to keep me going back so ill see that as a bit of a waste when i could get some cash back still, or trade in for a film or something if im bored one weekend, im hoping with the series x consoles ms bring in some more 360 titles as i dont have all my digital library available yet, i had to get a 360 from work for £20 to play some older disc games like ridge racers 6 and N3


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## Jayro (Nov 25, 2020)

I always see Switch carts go on sale. I never see eShop games get the same sales for the games I like, especially first-party games. Walmart sells all the cart games for $10 cheaper than anywhere else, eShop included.

And if they REALLY wanted to push digital sales, then they need top provide more internal storage than a pathetic 32GB and an SD card slot. SD cards are slow, even the fastest ones. It's about tome we replace SD cards with SSD cards. A new formfactor around the same size and price would be sweet.


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

Jayro said:


> I always see Switch carts go on sale. I never see eShop games get the same sales for the games I like, especially first-party games. Walmart sells all the cart games for $10 cheaper than anywhere else, eShop included.
> 
> And if they REALLY wanted to push digital sales, then they need top provide more internal storage than a pathetic 32GB and an SD card slot. SD cards are slow, even the fastest ones. It's about tome we replace SD cards with SSD cards. A new formfactor around the same size and price would be sweet.


nintendo pretty much has a monopoly on handhelds so i dont really see them improving any time soon, so i'd say best we could hope for is an ssd dock (and if they are really nice, it could also have DP and Ethernet) to remain somewhat competitive to home consoles


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## Jayro (Nov 25, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> nintendo pretty much has a monopoly on handhelds so i dont really see them improving any time soon, so i'd say best we could hope for is an ssd dock (and if they are really nice, it could also have DP and Ethernet) to remain somewhat competitive to home consoles


DP is worthless for home TVs though, still needs an DP to HDMI cable to the TV.


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## atoxique (Nov 25, 2020)

I like to actually own my games, and by "own" I don't mean something like GoG where it's a digital copy of the game with no DRM. I mean own a physical disc that I can keep, sell or give away. You can't give a copy of a digital game to someone else (well, technically you can just copy the files for them, but that's not legal...; also this really only applies to console games since PC discs require product keys that are still locked to your Steam / Uplay / Origin / whatever account anyway)

Another thing I like about physical games is that you don't have to download anything. Some of us don't have fantastic internet connections and don't want to wait hours for a game to download, especially now more than ever since games are sometimes 90+ GBs (e.g. Final Fantasy VII Remake, that's 97GB - I'd be waiting a while to download that, but since I bought it on disc I just put it in my PS4 and wait a few minutes for it to install to the hard drive!). One thing that really disappoints me is that some PC physical copies don't even include the full game on the disc, or don't even include discs at all, just a product key in a box!!


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

Jayro said:


> DP is worthless for home TVs though, still needs an DP to HDMI cable to the TV.


Would be a nice option though, tvs are in this odd situation where they lack DP because no device intended for them supports it, and no device intended for tvs supports DP because they lack it.


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## Jayro (Nov 25, 2020)

Azerus_Kun said:


> Would be a nice option though, tvs are in this odd situation where they lack DP because no device intended for them supports it, and no device intended for tvs supports DP because they lack it.


Yeah, I hate it. DP is amazing. I love that they have locking mechanisms too, and the whole overall build feels way more durable. I got my first taste of DP this last month when I built my girl a new gaming PC and she wanted a new monitor too. I knew DP was the only way to go!


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## Deleted User (Nov 25, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Yeah, I hate it. DP is amazing. I love that they have locking mechanisms too, and the whole overall build feels way more durable. I got my first taste of DP this last month when I built my girl a new gaming PC and she wanted a new monitor too. I knew DP was the only way to go!


agreed, for pc, i pretty much jumped from VGA to DP, i only used HDMI temporarily for a few months and i didnt really like it


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## godreborn (Nov 25, 2020)

I was buying retail with the switch, but after being overly medicated, I developed a tendency to drop things quite often.  I was afraid of dropping the switch to replace carts, as it was too dark to do it while docked.  anyway, I don't have that issue anymore, but I decided to continue buying digitally for convenience.  plus, that fear is still stuck in the back of my mind.  I sold all 15 or so retail games for several hundred dollars recently on ebay.  I actually got more for hyrule warriors and ys viii than I bought them for new.  I guess they're out of production.  I did rebuy all games digitally.  I don't have any interest in exploiting my system, because I never played any games on past exploited systems.  those systems were always for testing and research.  plus, considering I'm on disability, I can't have more than $2,000 in my accounts at one time, so it felt like a good, healthy way to spend money and enjoy it in the process.  I do often help my mom with groceries and things, but this is for me personally.


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## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

That's cool you want to go digital.

Just don't cry when the games you want to play aren't available anymore.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



duwen said:


> There are pro's and cons to both. Personally, I prefer physical for a multitude of reasons, but I'm not averse to buying digitally if it's the only option (or cheap enough to not care).
> 
> What I am against is the idea that games become a digital *only* medium... essentially lost (or at least 'profile locked' to a specific bit of hardware) when the servers are down/title's delisted/etc. Anyone that wants 'this' future is essentially shitting on game preservation and paving the way for gaming to become 'disposable'.
> We should all be rallying for the choice to have either digital or physical - regardless of our own preference.


Ah, yes. There is profile locked and license.

"Profile locked" can apply to Nintendo Switch where the main user plays them, and the secondary Switch console can't.

"License" just requires to login to an account, download the game and works on all consoles (e.g. Xbox 360).

And yet there are people who make multiple accounts on PlayStation to buy from several countries just to get a game cheaper digitally. At that point it's just a rental without even having any sense of the word "owning" it anymore.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



UltraDolphinRevolution said:


> There are two types of physical: cartridges/SSD or a CD/DVD. The latter just annoying in terms of making sounds (i.e. the disc drive).


Cartridges? The last time they were used were for the Nintendo 64.






(Not my picture, I wish it was)

What you meant to say were SD Cards or the likes.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DANTENDO said:


> People should just bloody play games no matter what format the game is and anyone not wanting one or the other is just a fool - shit I'd play the game even if the box came out a horses arse though I'd keep the disc and bin the box lol


Okay. I want to play The Simpsons Arcade, how do I go about it if I hadn't purchased before it was removed from the Xbox Store? Only by piracy then.


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## City (Nov 26, 2020)

I love physical releases! You get so much out of a physical game! You get a big box with a great artwork, a fully colored instructions manual full of cool things inside...

This is why I don't buy physical releases.


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## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

To be fair, it depends on the type of physical media in question; I've owned and burned too many CD | DVD | Blu-ray to believe they last more than a few years, especially in hot and humid locales.

I do, however, trust storage devices that are stationary, so just like I trust my MicroSD card to last a good while, I also trust Nintendo's cartridges to.

I view digital releases much like I view Netflix; it depends on whether you trust the company will be there for a while. With the same logic, I would rather trust a Subscription service to play as many games for a fix sum than to pay for just one digital game.

The exception those digital copies you don't pay for; with nothing to lose it's easy to like them as they are.


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## SG854 (Nov 26, 2020)

City said:


> I love physical releases! You get so much out of a physical game! You get a big box with a great artwork, a fully colored instructions manual full of cool things inside...
> 
> This is why I don't buy physical releases.


You love em but you don't buy em. Ain't we all been there.


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## Deleted User (Nov 26, 2020)

City said:


> I love physical releases! You get so much out of a physical game! You get a big box with a great artwork, a fully colored instructions manual full of cool things inside...
> 
> This is why I don't buy physical releases.


Big boxes? That's history.

Now it's standard Blu-ray cases and smaller (Switch).

The big boxes were mainly for PC games.


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## Chary (Dec 1, 2020)

Being able to grab a game at midnight release, without having to leave the house or stand in a line for an hour at GameStop or something is fantastic. 

Had Amazon/BestBuy kept its 15% off pre-orders, I'd probably be buying more physical copies, but it's just so much easier to download a game and play it without any fuss. The only time I really buy physical anymore is if it's cheaper or there's a really cool limited edition.


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## Jayro (Dec 1, 2020)

Just puts more money into Limited Run games' pockets.


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## Daggot (Dec 1, 2020)

The isn't anything "unfortunate" about being able to resell or buy used games. Go and buy digital, it's your choice but I'll always buy a physical release whenever I can.


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