# Sony patents the "EyePad"



## IBNobody (Feb 16, 2013)

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/16/sony-patents-eyepad-a-move-enabled-ps3-tablet-controller/









> The device Sony refers to as an "EyePad" in its patent application, seen in the sketch above, would theoretically come equipped with the usual trappings you'd expect from a PS3 controller: D-Pad, buttons, analog stick, SIXAXIS motion sensors, etc.


 
Awesome! Sony managed to copy Nintendo AND Apple in one fell swoop! Hats off to you, Sony.

Good luck with calling it an "EyePad".

EDIT:

Here's a quote from the patent...



> Referring now to Figure 2, an input device 1000, hereafter referred to as the EyePad, is typically a panel, tablet or slab-like device comprising one or more illuminated regions 1010, two stereoscopic video cameras 1030A(L,R) and 1030B(L,R), and optionally a touch sensitive surface 1020(hereafter referred to as a touchpad).


 
And remember folks - Something patented may never see the light of day.


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## Janthran (Feb 16, 2013)

Did they actually name it that?
Since when are Sony _THAT_ stupid?


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## narutopet112 (Feb 16, 2013)

wiiu ripoff


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## Rizsparky (Feb 16, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> Awesome! Sony managed to copy Nintendo AND Apple in one fell swoop! Hats off to you, Sony.
> 
> Good luck with calling it an "EyePad".


Its obvious it wont be called the EyePad.. its probably just a placeholder name and when did Nintendo own the designs for analogue based tablet?


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## narutopet112 (Feb 16, 2013)

Rizsparky said:


> Its obvious it wont be called the EyePad.. its probably just a placeholder name and when did Nintendo own the designs for analogue based tablet?


 
well a controller with screen for gameplay is nintendo idea


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

Where's the L1/R1 and L2/R2?

Also it's a patent people. There's about a thousand of them and most of them are nothing.

Also the name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Eye

EDIT: Or it's predecessor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EyeToy



narutopet112 said:


> well a controller with screen for gameplay is nintendo idea


 
Minus multiple other analog tablets.


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## IBNobody (Feb 16, 2013)

Rizsparky said:


> Its obvious it wont be called the EyePad.. its probably just a placeholder name and when did Nintendo own the designs for analogue based tablet?


 
I don't care about the whole Sony copying thing. I just had to salute them. Someone in their R&D department has huge balls. "I patented the EyePad!"


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 16, 2013)

surprise surprise $ony once again ripping Nintendo's ideas off. I hope apple sues the fuck out of them for using that name 



Janthran said:


> Since when are Sony _THAT_ stupid?


 
they've always been


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## Rizsparky (Feb 16, 2013)

narutopet112 said:


> well a controller with screen for gameplay is nintendo idea


 
You just defined almost every single handheld portable gaming system and said it was Nintendo's idea


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## Janthran (Feb 16, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> they've always been


Maybe this is them finally giving up on the gaming industry


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 16, 2013)

Janthran said:


> Maybe this is them finally giving up on the gaming industry


not likely as long as nintendo keep coming up with ideas they'll be there to steal them. They're fucking scum and I will never buy a playstation ever again. It's getting real close to I won't ever buy $ony products ever again too.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 16, 2013)

The name wouldn't fly - they'd lose the very first trial against Apple _(as such trial would be inevitable)_ simply because _"iPad"_ and _"EyePad"_ sounds exactly the same.

As for copying claims:

Who cares?
It's just a patent.
Everyone is entitled to manufacture a tablet with gaming-related controls _except_ Sony - in their case it's copying.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

God why the fuck do these threads even exist.

Like seriously, they're patents. I can't remember the last patent that actually turned into anything tangible.

Before complaining about the name, it's probably based off the (as I previously posted) EyeToy line, so having a tablet EyeToy type product is called EyePad. It makes sense.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Feb 16, 2013)

narutopet112 said:


> well a controller with screen for gameplay is nintendo idea








As for the patent, who gives a shit? As said, there are thousands of patents released all the time and half of them don't mean shit.


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## Joe88 (Feb 16, 2013)

problem apple?


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## Gahars (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Also it's a patent people. There's about a thousand of them and most of them are nothing.


 
But Sony's putting advertisements in our games! And blocking our used games! It said so in patents!

They're worse than Hitler; at least Hitler had nothing to do with DRM.


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## Xuphor (Feb 16, 2013)

Does this already exist on PS3? Called the uDraw tablet?



Spoiler: Yes, yes it does exist.


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## chartube12 (Feb 16, 2013)

Now where is my eye phone? Just make sure you guys are not momsters when you release it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

Xuphor said:


> Does this alreayd exist on PS3? Called the uDraw tablet?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Yes, yes it does exist.


 
STOLEN FROM NINTENDO EVEN THOUGH IT PREDATES IT.


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## Janthran (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Like seriously, they're patents. I can't remember the last patent that actually turned into anything tangible.


There were some patents for the Wii U before it was announced


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

Janthran said:


> There were some patents for the Wii U before it was announced


 
Out of how many patents? I saw a patent for a fucking horse riding simulator peripheral for the Wii. It was literally a fucking virtual saddle.


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## narutopet112 (Feb 16, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> As for the patent, who gives a shit? As said, there are thousands of patents released all the time and half of them don't mean shit.


 
For the patent part, I agree


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## Janthran (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Out of how many patents? I saw a patent for a fucking horse riding simulator peripheral for the Wii. It was literally a fucking virtual saddle.


That isn't the point, though. The point is you said none, which was wrong


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

Janthran said:


> That isn't the point, though. The point is you said none, which was wrong


 
You know what I mean. Don't argue semantics.


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## Gahars (Feb 16, 2013)

narutopet112 said:


> please quote to say something useful. but for the patent part, I agree


 
A picture's worth a thousand words, and that emoticon's worth a hundred insults. Consider it a mercy.



Janthran said:


> That isn't the point, though. The point is you said none, which was wrong


 
Hyperbole? In my GBAtemp? It's more likely than you think.


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## Janthran (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> You know what I mean. Don't argue semantics.


Then say what you mean.


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## IBNobody (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> God why the fuck do these threads even exist.
> 
> Like seriously, they're patents. I can't remember the last patent that actually turned into anything tangible.
> 
> Before complaining about the name, it's probably based off the (as I previously posted) EyeToy line, so having a tablet EyeToy type product is called EyePad. It makes sense.


 
It doesn't matter if they are just patents. It doesn't matter if Sony has previously used the Eye* nomenclature. It doesn't matter that they'll never be able go to market with that name.

If they had called it something else, like the EyeTab, the patent wouldn't have caught my attention.


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## narutopet112 (Feb 16, 2013)

wow this thread become corrupt only for 1 patent that isn't used yet or never will


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> It doesn't matter if they are just patents. It doesn't matter if Sony has previously used the Eye* nomenclature. It doesn't matter that they'll never be able go to market with that name.
> 
> If they had called it something else, like the EyeTab, the patent wouldn't have caught my attention.


 
It does matter because you're making a thread about it. It's basically non-news that's just for getting a bunch of panties in a bunch.


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## IBNobody (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It does matter because you're making a thread about it. It's basically non-news that's just for getting a bunch of panties in a bunch.


 
It's not for getting a bunch of panties in a bunch. I think it's hilarious that they called it the EyePad. Don't you think that's a funny thing to call a (edit: Non-Apple) tablet?

EDIT: I added a disclaimer to the OP reminding people that patents are patents.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 16, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> It's not for getting a bunch of panties in a bunch. I think it's hilarious that they called it the EyePad. Don't you think that's a funny thing to call a (edit: Non-Apple) tablet?


Isn't it funny that Apple called their phone an "iPhone" when Sony clearly made an "EyeToy" earlier?

I'm pretty sure they're just following the namesake here. That said, it's not the best of ideas, Apple would go on their usual lawsuit frenzy and it'd be a pretty well-motivated one too.


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## narutofan777 (Feb 16, 2013)

wtf is wrong with sony?


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## IBNobody (Feb 16, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Isn't it funny that Apple called their phone an "iPhone" when Sony clearly made an "EyeToy" earlier?
> 
> I'm pretty sure they're just following the namesake here. That said, it's not the best of ideas, Apple would go on their usual lawsuit frenzy and it'd be a pretty well-motivated one too.


 
Well... Technically, the iMac came out before the EyeToy. But, yeah. Nobody blinked an eye when Sony came up with the EyeToy.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 16, 2013)

wow sony just WOW. If I recall you can sue over patents too (I might be wrong if it sounds exactly the same and if it functions the same). Crystal monsters is more interactive than Pokemon (Ie the attack rings to gain chain attacks) so gamefreak can't sue Gameloft because even though you capture monsters in both different battle systems

you think that's stupid read the tpb lawsuit article

this ain't the year of the snake. it's the year of the game industry retards )


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## totalnoob617 (Feb 16, 2013)

kinda stupid unless the sides  and control stick, pad and buttons ca be removed


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

totalnoob617 said:


> kinda stupid unless the sides and control stick, pad and buttons ca be removed


 
...So make it like a thousand other tablets?

Protip: It's not meant to be like a thousand other tablets.


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## gamefan5 (Feb 16, 2013)

... yeah Lawsuit is inevitable.


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## totalnoob617 (Feb 16, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> ...So make it like a thousand other tablets?
> 
> Protip: It's not meant to be like a thousand other tablets.


no the sides could be detachable  other tablets dont have that,  have them come of and be able to use it like a regular tablet and put them on for games


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## gamefan5 (Feb 16, 2013)

totalnoob617 said:


> no the sides could be detachable other tablets dont have that, have them come of and be able to use it like a regular tablet and put them on for games


And if you lose the sides accidentally, you just cannot play the game?





Seriously bro, leave the sides as it is. It's not meant to be a traditionall tablet, but a gaming tablet.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 16, 2013)

they should have called it the "WiiCanDoItTooPad"


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## iFish (Feb 16, 2013)

narutopet112 said:


> wiiu ripoff


You're implying that the Wii U was an original concept.


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## gamefan5 (Feb 17, 2013)

NahuelDS said:


> they should have called it the "*Wii*CanDoItTooPad"


But then Nintendo would have a right to sue them. XD


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## DSGamer64 (Feb 17, 2013)

It's a patent application, they probably wouldn't use that name. And I'd like to see them use that design, Nintendo would be all over them with a lawsuit for copyright infringement over controller design and if they used that name, Apple would sue them because of like-ness in name.


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## GameWinner (Feb 17, 2013)

Hey guys, whatever happened to the detachable controller patent Sony filed last year!?
..Guys...?


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## McHaggis (Feb 17, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> The name wouldn't fly - they'd lose the very first trial against Apple _(as such trial would be inevitable)_ simply because _"iPad"_ and _"EyePad"_ sounds exactly the same.
> 
> As for copying claims:
> 
> ...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anybody is claiming Nintendo invented tablets with gaming controls. I think the copying argument stems from using a tablet with gaming related controls *as a primary controller for a home console* being an original Nintendo idea. But yes, it's not the first time you and Guild have rushed to Sony's defense like this 

It certainly does seem like a twist on Nintendo's GamePad, used as a move controller for the home console. Sure, it doesn't mean they'll do it but Move followed the Wii remote and nunchuk in a very similar manner.  You cant really blame people for thinking its a little bit of history repeating.  Besides, i think they probably have this in mind for if the GamePad becomes popular and their innovation doesn't.


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## FireGrey (Feb 17, 2013)

Sony vs Apple incoming!
Well this is certainly exciting!


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 17, 2013)

FireGrey said:


> Sony vs Apple incoming!
> Well this is certainly exciting!


 
Can't believe I'm saying this but I hope apple wins


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 17, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> It's a patent application, they probably wouldn't use that name. And I'd like to see them use that design, Nintendo would be all over them with a lawsuit for copyright infringement over controller design and if they used that name, Apple would sue them because of like-ness in name.


 
Because Nintendo invented touchscreen and button controllers?

Considering that these devices are quite similar in looks and tech and only similar in the core concept, they have no leg to stand on.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 17, 2013)

gamefan5 said:


> But then Nintendo would have a right to sue them. XD


do you think they will notice?


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## pwsincd (Feb 17, 2013)

Sounds like it's intended to be used as some form of AR (aside from all the other obvious tablet style features), in conjunction with the eyetoy and the ps3 .

Sounds like there's a fair amount of DEV gone into it although we only see a naff sketch.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 17, 2013)

pwsincd said:


> Sounds like it's intended to be used as some form of AR (aside from all the other obvious tablet style features), in conjunction with the eyetoy and the ps3 .
> 
> Sounds like there's a fair amount of DEV gone into it although we only see a naff sketch.


 
I was thinking the same, something kinda like Wonderbook but a bit more expansive.


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## pwsincd (Feb 17, 2013)

dunno wtf a wonderbook is tbh ...   I just read through the patent .

Snippet :

Hence, based on the above features, using the PS3, the EyeToy and the EyePad it is possible for the PS3 to obtain data regarding:

the absolute position of the EyePad with respect to an image captured by the EyeToy;
the relative orientation of the EyePad in six axes from motion sensors;
The status of any button or joystick controls on the EyePad;
The location of one or more touch points on the EyePad touchpad; and
The appearance and 3D shape of an object within the common volume occupying the space immediately above the touchpad.
Given this information, it is then also possible to calculate the position and orientation of the common volume as this has a fixed relationship to the EyeToy, and from this it is also possible to calculate the position and orientation of an object within the common volume.

In use, the EyePad can be treated firstly as an active augmented reality (AR) marker; the combination of the illuminated regions detected by the PS3 using the EyeToy and the telemetry from the EyePad itself provide accurate position and orientation information that is advantageously robust to common environmental problems that affect normal AR markers, such as adverse lighting conditions, partial occlusion or temporary complete occlusion, and small viewing angles.

The detection of the position of the EyePad using its own illumination, together with telemetry from the motion sensors within the EyePad, make the location and orientation of the surface of the Eyepad (e.g. the touch pad area) possible even in complete darkness.


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## FireGrey (Feb 17, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> Can't believe I'm saying this but I hope apple wins


I want either of them to get hurt badly.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 17, 2013)

FireGrey said:


> I want either of them to get hurt badly.


 
Good to know GBAtemp isn't spiteful at all.


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## narutopet112 (Feb 17, 2013)

iFish said:


> You're implying that the Wii U was an original concept.


 
Damn you'r right. What's going on lately with me


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## Psionic Roshambo (Feb 17, 2013)

Nintendo might not have invented the whole analog controls on a tablet thing, but they sure were close to it... The first Game And Watch things hit in 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_&_Watch

The screen might be better and there might be more buttons and CPU's beyond the wildest dreams of the day. But the basic concept is all there. Sound, Graphics, Portable, fun? Maybe... lol

There might be some sort of earlier portable game systems with controls and an LCD screen but I am not aware of them off hand.


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## Chary (Feb 17, 2013)

LAWSUITS. Lawsuits everywhere.


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## EthanObi (Feb 17, 2013)

Chary said:


> LAWSUITS. Lawsuits everywhere.








Good going sony


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## air2004 (Feb 17, 2013)

In March the patent system is changing for the better in the US.


> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/16/first-to-file-a-primer/ One of the main changes resulting from the passage of the America Invents Act (AIA) is the transition of U.S. patent law from a “first-to-invent” system to a “first-to-file” system on March 16. With the transition a mere four weeks away, it is important to understand what this change to the patent system means for inventors and companies.


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## Sterling (Feb 17, 2013)

They should call it the Eye Tab.


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## aalokishere (Feb 17, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Out of how many patents? I saw a patent for a fucking horse riding simulator peripheral for the Wii. It was literally a fucking virtual saddle.


Nicely said






Giddy up


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## RedCoreZero (Feb 17, 2013)

They are obviously trying to get sales from the ipad by confusing consumers by naming it eyepad, or they would name it PlayPad.


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## Taleweaver (Feb 17, 2013)

Christ, almighty. Is it really that hard to see what sony is doing here? No, this isn't some evil scheme, a ripping off game or anything like that. At best, it's hidden advertisement, but TBH I doubt that too.


Think about it for a moment. Patents are obviously made public (if not, there would be no way to sue anybody about it...those others can just say they didn't know about it). But, as a company, if you're only going to patent the things you're really going to make, the competition (and nowadays the media as well) knows what you're going to be making. And start thinking and making a similar thing (say...just different enough to get around the patent).

So how are you going to make an innovative product? Easy: by patenting more than you're going to make. Guild and others have already pointed out that there are thousands of these patents flying around. And TBH...with a new console from microsoft and sony being prepared, it's only normal that "false" patents are filed*. It's smoke and mirrors, really. The only way to keep things surprising for the audience nowadays is to influence the rumor mill with these kinds of stories.

And when looking at the picture or the name, I'd say someone thought it was a good idea to cause a bit of controversy, thus ensuring people are talking about it. I can't say it isn't effective. A sketch that's probably drawn in ten minutes and a name that draws the attention of any apple-users out there...good going. All they really need now is piss of xbox users. I guess that's something for another patent. 

And what's with all these "lawsuit" screams? It's a patent, damnit. If there was anything wrong legally, it would never have passed the (internal) certification in the first place. And it's not like apple or nintendo can file a lawsuit for a piece of paper (well...perhaps they can. But at best, they can get the patent voided, which isn't exactly profitable).






*it's between brackets because those patents are most likely as real as can be. But that doesn't mean the company thinks for a second that they're really going to make the product.


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## mario5555 (Feb 17, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> not likely as long as nintendo keep coming up with ideas they'll be there to steal them. They're fucking scum and I will never buy a playstation ever again. It's getting real close to I won't ever buy $ony products ever again too.


 
Please  tell us how you really feel.


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## pwsincd (Feb 17, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> Christ, almighty. Is it really that hard to see what sony is doing here? No,
> 
> And when looking at the picture or the name, I'd say someone thought it was a good idea to cause a bit of controversy, thus ensuring people are talking about it. I can't say it isn't effective. A sketch that's probably drawn in ten minutes and a name that draws the attention of any apple-users out there...good going. All they really need now is piss of xbox users. I guess that's something for another patent.
> 
> .


 
I don't think they actually sat there, drew a sketch, named it eyepad and thought let the fun and games begin, I think they probably put a lot of thought into the tech involved in such a concept, wrote a report on the possibilities, theoretically devved it, wrote a patent and submitted it .

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP2557482A2.html

The "Apple of my eye" is calling for a morning coffee, I must go make her one before I get sued for saying such a thing...bbiab


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## Qtis (Feb 17, 2013)

It's great to see that most people have no idea how the patent system works in the US or let alone the rest of the world. Also the patent was filed in 2012 (with development having taken place a long time before). If something is patented, the time and effort made to dev that device is protected. Have you people seen the iPhone design patents for example? They basically just outline the screen and anything else is just optional. This patent at least looks quite a bit like many other devices. Even a big PSP/PSVita. It's really amazing how much people look at the consumer market patents (phones, computers, tablets, game consoles, etc) compared to industrial applications. Everything and the kitchen sink (probably multi-sinks too!) are patented in one way and the other with copied concepts from every other manufacturer. A patent gives some levy to the first inventor, but it doesn't mean that they have to use that device straight away. It could just as well be a so called placeholder for a future design. It could even be a new gaming tablet from Sony, *gasp*! If some kind of Android/whatever tablet device was capable of integrating with PSN and able to play the games on a big screen without needing a TV, I'd imagine quite a few people would be interested.

So technically the device can be a big ass PSVita sans 1 analog (strictly according to the patent images), but everyone is screaming "WIIUUUUUU CLONNEE, IIIPPAAAD CLOONEE, LAWSUITS LOLL!".. Great job guys, great job..


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## ferofax (Feb 17, 2013)

Stereoscopic cameras. GAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sony is giving me the giggles. Also, R-analog only? Dafuq is up with that?


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## McHaggis (Feb 17, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> Christ, almighty. Is it really that hard to see what sony is doing here? No, this isn't some evil scheme, a ripping off game or anything like that. At best, it's hidden advertisement, but TBH I doubt that too.
> 
> 
> Think about it for a moment. Patents are obviously made public (if not, there would be no way to sue anybody about it...those others can just say they didn't know about it). But, as a company, if you're only going to patent the things you're really going to make, the competition (and nowadays the media as well) knows what you're going to be making. And start thinking and making a similar thing (say...just different enough to get around the patent).
> ...


That's possibly the dumbest thing I've read all week.  Patents aren't filed to throw other companies and the media off the scent.  They're filed during the course of R&D as a means to protect a potential future invention (patent trolls aside).  Filing a patent costs money. For the average person, this ranges for a few hundred dollars upwards to a couple of thousand.  For companies with the best intellectual property lawyers money can buy, the patent search alone will cost a few thousand.  That's not including the money being plowed into R&D in the first place.  Yes, not every patented idea gets made, but they're filed so that nobody else can do it first.


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## Taleweaver (Feb 17, 2013)

Interesting posts there, Qthis and McHaggis. It sure puts some context in this thread. 

However...McHaggis...


McHaggis said:


> Yes, not every patented idea gets made, but they're filed so that nobody else can do it first.


this sentence kinda ruins the rest of your post. I'm honestly trying to take it seriously, as I know you mean it that way. But...do you agree this sounds a bit...strange in this case?


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## Kouen Hasuki (Feb 17, 2013)

narutopet112 said:


> well a controller with screen for gameplay is nintendo idea


Actually based on your definition right there... WiiU ripped off Dreamcast as some games involved parts played on the VMU when plugged into the controller... I.E. Quake 3 Arena had one

Regardless of the quality of the game on the VMU based on what you put there Game on Controller


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## FireGrey (Feb 17, 2013)

Hey guys I had an idea, maybe this patent has nothing to do with Playstation products.
They make mobile gaming devices too you know (Xperia Play).


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## IBNobody (Feb 17, 2013)

FireGrey said:


> Hey guys I had an idea, maybe this patent has nothing to do with Playstation products.
> They make mobile gaming devices too you know (Xperia Play).


 
A true tablet would compete with the Vita. (Have you noticed that they haven't refreshed the Xperia Play?) Sony would have to give up on the Vita before they came out with another device that had gamepad controls.


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## Qtis (Feb 17, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> A true tablet would compete with the Vita. (Have you noticed that they haven't refreshed the Xperia Play?) Sony would have to give up on the Vita before they came out with another device that had gamepad controls.


Not unless the new device is a big ass tablet. Big ass tablets always have their own market. Otherwise we wouldn't have an iPod, iPod Touch, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle, iPhone, iPad, iPad Mini, etc. All are basically the same thing with some added or missing features compared to the others.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Feb 17, 2013)

haha...Apple is going to tear them a new anus with that name..

and ..once again..Sony has to copy what others do first...


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## Foxi4 (Feb 17, 2013)

stanleyopar2000 said:


> and ..once again..Sony has to copy what others do first...


You mean like how they created the first console which adopted the DVD format and played movies, the first controller to use a dual analog setup which then became a staple of video game controllers, also equipped with pressure-sensitive buttons unlike any controller before, the first camera Add-On which was actually _used in games_ rather than just for taking photos _(like the Dreamcast's camera)_ and how they were the first to introduce HDD's in consoles with their HDD and Network adapter and more? Oh yeah, Sony doesn't innovate.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 17, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> You mean like how they created the first console which adopted the DVD format and played movies, the first controller to use a dual analog setup which then became a staple of video game controllers, also equipped with pressure-sensitive buttons unlike any controller before, the first camera Add-On which was actually _used in games_ rather than just for taking photos _(like the Dreamcast's camera)_ and how they were the first to introduce HDD's in consoles with their HDD and Network adapter and more? Oh yeah, Sony doesn't innovate.



Depending upon how you phrase that I should note the Philips CD-i did play VCD back in 1991.
Dual analogs... to the best of my knowledge I will give you standard games consoles but various flight sims and some arcade stuff might have to appear if we are going for true firsts.
Pressure sensitive.... assuming DC triggers do not count then some of the arcade stuff had fully depress and half depress options for buttons.
On cameras if I was being cheap I should say the GB Camera but that was texturing so that does not really count vs eyetoy stuff which was an actual game controlled with a camera. The functionality was not alien to webcams though.
HDD - I want to say amiga but that would be an actual debate to hold that up.

Still I will +1 you as they did take it and make it work (aka the Apple model but done well enough and even more DRM heavy) where everybody before was largely a pack of unguided types.


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## smf (Feb 17, 2013)

narutopet112 said:


> well a controller with screen for gameplay is nintendo idea


 
No, Sega Dreamcast had it first. The Wii remote was a rip off of the Samba Da Amigo maracas. Nintendo never think of anything original.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 17, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Still I will +1 you as they did take it and make it work (aka the Apple model but done well enough and even more DRM heavy) where everybody before was largely a pack of unguided types.


With the analog sticks I was thinking about _"nubs"_, meaning _"not joysticks"_ that are used on a gamepad, that narrows the field a lot. 

As for Dreamcast's triggers, I see a difference between a trigger and a button - they serve slightly different functions _(for example a trigger like this would be great for accelerating in racing games wheras a button wouldn't work the same way since it has less travel. On the other hand, a pressure-sensitive button is great for pulling out a gun when lightly pressed and shooting when pressed all the way, like in MGS2 - in this case, a trigger would have too much travel and could cost you a shot)_ and the electronics behind them are different as well.

I haven't thought of VCD to be honest, I was thinking strictly about DVD's - VCD never reached a high level of popularity as far as I know and the CD-i... well... it tries to be a console really hard but it looks and feels like a _"media player"_ of sorts, including the base controller. Wikipedia classifies it similarily - as a media player with the capacity to play video games, aka an _"interactive CD player" _rather than as a console with the capacity to play video.

I excluded the Game Boy Camera since it's a handheld console and, as I said, I meant a camera used for actual control of the game proper, not a device for taking and fiddling with photos.

Finally, the Amiga... I do believe it's a home computer, not really a console even though its primary use was video games.

I won't lie, Sony takes a lot of _"ideas"_ from other companies and they do apply them in their products, but they do so in their own, very specific way. They take something that works and make it work _"better"_, plus they add their own flair of innovation - that's hardly a bad thing. There are certain concepts, certain devices and certain designs that are meant to become common place - if not for all the _"copying"_ we'd live in a world of monopoly. If a given concept can be utilized in a way that will in the long run make gaming _better_, I applaud using this concept by all three competitors - how else is gaming going to progress? I get the feeling that people put too much stress on _"who did it first"_ without really thinking of _"who does it well"_.

_//Almost a "FAST-Post" in terms of length _


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## IBNobody (Feb 18, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I get the feeling that people put too much stress on _"who did it first"_ without really thinking of _"who does it well"_.


 
I'm all for blatant ripoffs and improvements. I own a Samsung Galaxy S3, after all. I think that Sony isn't "doing it well" these days. (Move? Vita connectivity? All-Stars?) Maybe they are copying the wrong things?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> I'm all for blatant ripoffs and improvements. I own a Samsung Galaxy S3, after all. I think that Sony isn't "doing it well" these days. (Move? Vita connectivity? All-Stars?) Maybe they are copying the wrong things?



PSMove is hardly a copy of anything - it was in the works even back in the PS2 days. If they _"copied"_ anything then perhaps it was the form-factor, but the core concept was born before the WiiMote, since that's what you think it _"copies"_, right? Not only that, the WiiMote is not the first controller of its kind - Midway had an incredibly similar one in the works for the Dreamcast. That, and... well, the _"WiiMote"_ technically _"copies"_ every TV Remote in existence, going by that logic.
What's wrong with Vita connectivity? Can you be more specific? If you mean _"online"_ then damn, it's probably the best _"online"_ portable to ever grace the planet, and I'm saying that with full certainty. PSN on the PSVita is _da bomb_ and nobody's going to convince me otherwise.
All-Stars is hardly a rip-off, it's part of a genre of games that's actually very popular in Japan. I had this conversation before and I think I managed to list, like, 20 titles that are very _"Smash-Like"_ in 5 minutes. Not only that, the core mechanics of Smash Bros. and All-Stars are completely different. They may be riding on the popularity of Smash Bros., but don't you think that it's a little late for that? I mean, Smash Bros. was popular for eons and _now_ they come up with the idea to_ "rip it off"?_ That's debatable.
Galaxy S3 copies something?  I find the design to actually be relatively original. To be perfectly honest, I'd be _glad_ if it _"copied"_ the iPhone more accurately as I'm not a fan of the shape - I like _"sharper"_ rectangles better than the curved ones... but that's a matter of taste, I suppose.


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## IBNobody (Feb 18, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> PSMove is hardly a copy of anything - it was in the works even back in the PS2 days. If they _"copied"_ anything then perhaps it was the form-factor, but the core concept was born before the WiiMote, since that's what you think it _"copies"_, right? Not only that, the WiiMote is not the first controller of its kind - Midway had an incredibly similar one in the works for the Dreamcast. That, and... well, the _"WiiMote"_ technically _"copies"_ every TV Remote in existence, going by that logic.
> What's wrong with Vita connectivity? Can you be more specific? If you mean online then damn, it's probably the best _"online"_ portable to ever grace the planet, and I'm saying that with full certainty. PSN on the PSVita is _da bomb_ and nobody's going to convince me otherwise.
> All-Stars is hardly a rip-off, it's part of a genre of games that's actually very popular in Japan. I had this conversation before and I think I managed to list, like, 20 titles that are very _"Smash-Like"_ in 5 minutes. Not only that, the core mechanics of Smash Bros. and All-Stars are completely different. They may be riding on the popularity of Smash Bros., but don't you think that it's a little late for that? I mean, Smash Bros. was popular for eons and _now_ they come up with the idea to_ "rip it off"?_ That's debatable.
> Galaxy S3 copies something?  I find the design to actually be relatively original. To be perfectly honest, I'd be _glad_ if it _"copied"_ the iPhone more accurately as I'm not a fan of the shape - I like _"sharper"_ rectangles better than the curved ones... but that's a matter of taste, I suppose.


 

You missed my point on #1/#2/#3. The Move, Vita connectivity, and All-Stars were not the right things to copy because they didn't lead to critical successes. Vehemently defending Sony isn't going to get us anywhere, especially because I'd like to see Sony have a big win just as much as you do. 

You got closer on #4. If Sony is going to copy more and innovate less, they need to be like Samsung and copy the RIGHT things.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> You missed my point on #1/#2/#3. The Move, Vita connectivity, and All-Stars were not the right things to copy because they didn't lead to critical successes. Vehemently defending Sony isn't going to get us anywhere, especially because I'd like to see Sony have a big win just as much as you do.
> 
> You got closer on #4. If Sony is going to copy more and innovate less, they need to be like Samsung and copy the RIGHT things.


Oh, I'm not defending Sony, by no means - _I see what they're doing_. I'm far from religiously defending them - I like to take a neutral stance in those disputes.

I merely misunderstood you a little, I though you were criticizing the products/features for all the _"wrong"_ reasons. For example, you think that the Vita's connectivity is _"rather meh"_ when I find it stellar, unless you mean something else, for example Remote Play... in which case I expect Sony to improve upon it when the PS4 - the intended Home Console counterpart of the PSVita is released. I really do hope that they'll introduce connectivity good enough to entice future buyers to own both products - it's a win-win situation when the feature is _"worth it"_. I agree with you, a company and its developers need to have the ability to select popular trends and innovate upon them to create better products_._


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 18, 2013)

smf said:


> The Wii remote was a rip off of the Samba Da Amigo maracas. Nintendo never think of anything original.


the powerglove says HI. learn the facts 1st before you spout BS


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## tatripp (Feb 18, 2013)

I remember how ps3 copied the motion controls with their original controllers and now this. Ps3 is like turkey. Turkey tastes delicious when it is turkey. Turkey is not delicious when it tries to be beef or bacon.


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## Yumi (Feb 18, 2013)

Soooo...tablets will be the new way to go now? ;p



tatripp said:


> I remember how ps3 copied the motion controls with their original controllers and now this. *Ps3 is like turkey. Turkey tastes delicious when it is turkey. Turkey is not delicious when it tries to be beef or bacon.*


 
Mitch Hedberg


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## Qtis (Feb 18, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> the powerglove says HI. learn the facts 1st before you spout BS


While I find this argument kinda moot, the Power Glove wasn't a Nintendo product in the first place and it wasn't a mote. It was a huge augmented hand device and licensed for Nintendo's NES by Mattel/AGE (who was the developer for the thing. Nintendo didn't have anything to do with it other than licensing). It's like saying the iPhone is a copy of a Sharp TV from the 70s if the Power Glove is closer to the WiiMote than the Samba Da Amigo Maracas..


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## pwsincd (Feb 18, 2013)

Sony did try to innovate once I recall......   ya remember Betamax right


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## Veho (Feb 18, 2013)

pwsincd said:


> Sony did try to innovate once I recall......   ya remember Betamax right


No I do not. I'm 12 and what's this? 

I do remember Blu-ray, though.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> the powerglove says HI. learn the facts 1st before you spout BS


*MOTION CONTROLS? TOTALLY COPIED FROM DataSoft Inc., OH THE HUMANITY! ;O;*

Also, as Qtis said, _"not a Nintendo product"_, merely a licensed one.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 18, 2013)

tatripp said:


> Ps3 is like turkey.



Extremely stupid when it is alive, with a bit of effort can be passable, if bland, when prepared by someone half skilled at it, gorged on a couple of times a year by certain parts of the world and treated with a resounding "meh" by most of the rest of it?

Wait... I was trying to make it seem a bad analogy.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 18, 2013)

Why can't we stop playing the "Who dun it first" circlejerk and actually care about products? People here are so fucking obsessed with saying "MY COMPANY DID IT FIRST" that the stop giving a shit about quality. We can keep going back to who did what first but the real question we should ask is who did what better.


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## Arm73 (Feb 18, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> *MOTION CONTROLS? TOTALLY COPIED FROM DataSoft Inc., OH THE HUMANITY! ;O;*
> 
> Also, as Qtis said, _"not a Nintendo product"_, merely a licensed one.


Guys, all you are doing is pointing out _"peripherals"_ or _"prototypes"_ controllers and patents that look good on paper but never saw the light of the day.
I'm sorry but I find most of these arguments totally useless and OOT.

Nobody can deny that touch screen technology was already available before the DS came out, or motion controllers before the Wii, or even dual shock setups ( like my Microsoft Sidewinder PC controller had it years ago prior to the PS2 or at the very least at the same time of the PSX ).

Sure you can have a 3rd party awesome controller, heck, I had a light pen and a Kempston mouse for my ZX Spectrum back in the 80s that were awesome peripherals but mostly used only by a handful of titles that came out with it !
Never saw too much support, and you know why ? Because they were peripherals, additional, optional controllers that the user had to purchase _separately_ if wanted.
Naturally, every peace of software supported the ZX Spectrum keyboard, _none_ to my knowledge required a joystick to work, and you know why ? Because the computer came with the frigging Keyboard !

My point is, Nintendo has balls and guts to release new systems and _force_s us ( and developers to develop for ) to use whatever control method they think is the best at the time, by releasing as standard controller out of the box.
Remember when the Wii came out had a WII remote and nunchuck included in the box as _main_ controller and the option to buy a CC for those who wished to have a classic controller, but being the Wii remote what was included in the box, 99% of the titles made use of it, making motion controls the standard for that generation.

When Sony released MOVE, they where doomed to fail not because they clearly ripped off Nintendo trying to ride on the wave of success of motion controls, but because it was just that, a peripheral, optional controller, that developers may choose do support or _not_.
And please stop mentioning the frigging PS2 eye toy or PS2 wand whatever was called, truth is, if nintendo didn't make motion controls cool and popular with the Wii, Sony would have never invested millions of dollars to release Move !

In that regard, speaking of innovation, Nintendo leads the market because it's the only company that really puts itself 100% behind an idea and pushes it down our throat whether we like it or not until eventually we get used to it and becomes the new standard.

Like the Wii U controller for instance: Nobody is saying that the technology inside is proprietary and exclusive to Nintendo, but have it as a main controller for an home systems and required to even boot said system, is certainly revolutionary in it's own.
Nintendo knows very well that optional peripherals are bound to see limited success, even in the good old N64 days, they had to come up with some ingenious idea and bundles to sell us the N64 memory expansion which was only supported by a certain number of games and ONLY mandatory for DK64 and Perfect Dark I believe.

The trick is, if you want to sell it and make it the standard, has to be shipped with the system to begin with.
But who has the guts to take such enormous risks and gamble on it for the sake of innovation ?
As long as Sony keeps on releasing systems with a dual shock type of controller as main input method, they can release whatever add on they think it's cool later on , however they'll never innovate shit.


Guild McCommunist said:


> Why can't we stop playing the "Who dun it first" circlejerk and actually care about products? People here are so fucking obsessed with saying "MY COMPANY DID IT FIRST" that the stop giving a shit about quality. We can keep going back to who did what first but the real *question we should ask is who did what better.*


So you are saying that Sony is better then Nintendo because the technology inside Move is better then a Wii motion plus ?
And how many games do support Move ( vs how many Wii games support Wii remote )and how many people do you know who actually even owns one ?
Really, I never saw that coming from you........


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## KingVamp (Feb 18, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> So you are saying that Sony is better then Nintendo because the technology inside Move is better then a Wii motion plus ?
> And how many games do support Move ( vs how many Wii games support Wii remote )and how many people do you know who actually even owns one ?
> Really, I never saw that coming from you........


To be fair, he didn't say anything, one way or the other...


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## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> Nobody can deny that touch screen technology was already available before the DS came out.


For example the Game.com which happened to compete with the Game Boy. No prototype, actual console.



> And please stop mentioning the frigging PS2 eye toy or PS2 wand whatever was called, truth is, if nintendo didn't make motion controls cool and popular with the Wii, Sony would have never invested millions of dollars to release Move !


Even though they invested millions to create a working prototype. They like throwing money into mud, y'see.



> In that regard, speaking of innovation, Nintendo leads the market because it's the only company that really puts itself 100% behind an idea and pushes it down our throat whether we like it or not until eventually we get used to it and becomes the new standard.


Oh, but the Dual Analog setup did just that. Heck, even Nintendo uses it on its controllers.



> So you are saying that Sony is better then Nintendo because the technology inside Move is better then a Wii motion plus ?


I'm saying that the PSMove is factually a better controller than the WiiMote. I mentioned nothing about compatible games.

That, and we're actually on the same front - I was _ridiculing_ the _"who did it first"_ approach because at the end of the day, what truly matters is _"who does it right"_, so you misunderstood me.  Nobody questions whether or not Nintendo is an important innovator in the industry - it's pretty obvious that they are.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 18, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> So you are saying that Sony is better then Nintendo because the technology inside Move is better then a Wii motion plus ?
> And how many games do support Move ( vs how many Wii games support Wii remote )and how many people do you know who actually even owns one ?
> Really, I never saw that coming from you........


 
I'm not really saying that, I haven't tried the PS Move so I can't attest to it, but I'm saying we shouldn't grade products purely on originality, but on quality. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and no matter what way you put it, it's an iPhone rip off. Most smartphones are. But tons of S3 owners would say that their S3 is a bagillion times better than an iPhone.

Also it's unfair to compare the PS Move to the Wii console as a whole. The Move is a peripheral and not mandatory. You NEED to develop for the Wiimote on a Wii.


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## Arm73 (Feb 18, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'm not really saying that, I haven't tried the PS Move so I can't attest to it, but I'm saying we shouldn't grade products purely on originality, but on quality. I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 and no matter what way you put it, it's an iPhone rip off. Most smartphones are. But tons of S3 owners would say that their S3 is a bagillion times better than an iPhone.
> 
> Also it's unfair to compare the PS Move to the Wii console as a whole. The Move is a peripheral and not mandatory. You NEED to develop for the Wiimote on a Wii.


 
Ok, you make a fair point and I agree with you to some extent.
But the fact that even you don't own a Move, sort of proves my point.

Speaking of quality and who does better what, I must say that currently I have a DSiXL and a PSP as main handheld systems and  I go back and forth between playing them ( with the recently released Corpse party BoS I'm playing mostly PSP at the moment ), but in the whole life cycle of both systems I must have spent 75% of my time on DS games vs 25% on the PSP, simply because of a matter of preference in games styles.

Now I've been itching to upgrade to something better  for some time, and while I can't argue over the quality or gorgeous looks or even quality vs quantity as in who offers more bang for your buck, I must say that I'm leaning more toward purchasing a 3DSXL and not so excited over the (more bang for your buck ) Vita.
I really enjoyed games like Ace Attorney or Layton on the DS ( sequels now are only on 3DS sadly), and one of my favorite games of all times is now  also coming for the 3DS ( Mario & Luigi ), so I'm seriously thinking of picking up one soon.
As for the Vita, as much as I like it, there is virtually nothing on it yet that would justify the purchase for me.

I guess the games do make a difference then ?


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 18, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> Ok, you make a fair point and I agree with you to some extent.
> But the fact that even you don't own a Move, sort of proves my point.
> 
> Speaking of quality and who does better what, I must say that currently I have a DSiXL and a PSP as main handheld systems and I go back and forth between playing them ( with the recently released Corpse party BoS I'm playing mostly PSP at the moment ), but in the whole life cycle of both systems I must have spent 75% of my time on DS games vs 25% on the PSP, simply because of a matter of preference in games styles.
> ...


 
Well there are a fair share of Move-supported games. Both inFamous titles support it, Killzone 3 supports it, Heavy Rain supports it, House of the Dead: Overkill Extended Cut and Dead Space: Extraction support it. I don't think it's terribly worthwhile myself as it is rather pricy but it has supported games.


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## IBNobody (Feb 18, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well there are a fair share of Move-supported games. Both inFamous titles support it, Killzone 3 supports it, Heavy Rain supports it, House of the Dead: Overkill Extended Cut and Dead Space: Extraction support it. I don't think it's terribly worthwhile myself as it is rather pricy but it has supported games.


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_Move_games

The game flow has slowed to a trickle, which can be expected for a peripheral. 

(Honestly, the best thing about the Move was the Navigation Controller. That thing rocks when used for PC gaming. Nav in one hand, mouse in the other.)


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## Arm73 (Feb 18, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_Move_games
> 
> The game flow has slowed to a trickle, which can be expected for a peripheral.
> 
> (Honestly, the best thing about the Move was the Navigation Controller. That thing rocks when used for PC gaming. Nav in one hand, mouse in the other.)


You know I wanted to try that for a long time !
I was looking for an alternative to play PC keyboard and mouse games without sacrificing the mouse accuracy.
I'm currently playing most games with the 360 controller, but some fps are so much better with the mouse, only problem is my wrist gets really tired pretty quickly as I'm playing on a laptop and can't move the keyboard around to a more comfortable position.

The Navigation controller sounds just perfect for that purpose.
Was it hard to set up ? Can you link me to a good guide ?


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## IBNobody (Feb 18, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> You know I wanted to try that for a long time !
> I was looking for an alternative to play PC keyboard and mouse games without sacrificing the mouse accuracy.
> I'm currently playing most games with the 360 controller, but some fps are so much better with the mouse, only problem is my wrist gets really tired pretty quickly as I'm playing on a laptop and can't move the keyboard around to a more comfortable position.
> 
> ...


 
It's as easy as setting up a PS3 Dualshock/Sixaxis. Just google "MotionJoy Tutorial".

If you want a copy of MotionJoy without the annoying ads / slowness, download the MotionJoy Offline mode here. Your anti-virus may flag it because it is a packed exe, but the file is safe. Also consider buying a $10 BT dongle that is compatible with MotionJoy. It frees you from a cord.

I've used it for FPS games and for Terraria. Move with the Navigation, aim with the mouse.

Honestly, I hope other companies "copy" the design. It's the only one-handed controller I've seen with analog.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 18, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> Honestly, I hope other companies "copy" the design. It's the only one-handed controller I've seen with analog.


This looks like something perfect for you, shame that it wasn't released...


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## IBNobody (Feb 18, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> This looks like something perfect for you, shame that it wasn't released...


 
Hmm... Maybe... The Nav has more buttons, a full D-Pad, and an analog trigger. Sony may have "copied" the WiiMote, but it's a darn good copy for single-handed play.


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## Arm73 (Feb 18, 2013)

IBNobody said:


> Hmm... Maybe... The Nav has more buttons, a full D-Pad, and an analog trigger. Sony may have "copied" the WiiMote, but it's a darn good copy for single-handed play.


I must agree on this one.
Although the navigator lacks motion controls ( like the nunchuck ) it more makes up to it with the analog stick + dpad and buttons.
My PC has bluetooth and I don't think I need a dongle, but I have a spare one around anyway.
I'm just worried about this motion joy drivers 'cause I've read it somewhere that once installed, it's a pain to remove the drivers.
But yeah, it looks great to move around with the analog and change weapons on the dpad and jump/reload/use with the other buttons, and let's not forget a good gaming mouse has typically 5 buttons so all together I guess we got all the basic controls covered....
So if I buy the navigator I won't have to buy Move with it right ? After installing motion joy the PC should be able to pick it up as a blue tooth device ? Correct ?
Sorry to go way OT..........and thanks.


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## IBNobody (Feb 19, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> I must agree on this one.
> Although the navigator lacks motion controls ( like the nunchuck ) it more makes up to it with the analog stick + dpad and buttons.
> My PC has bluetooth and I don't think I need a dongle, but I have a spare one around anyway.
> I'm just worried about this motion joy drivers 'cause I've read it somewhere that once installed, it's a pain to remove the drivers.
> ...


 
I'll send a PM


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## krazykracker1288 (Feb 19, 2013)

psp + 250% larger screen - shoulder buttons = eyepad


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## Maxternal (Feb 19, 2013)

Troll patent



click for Apple's troll patent response ...


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## smf (Feb 19, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> the powerglove says HI. learn the facts 1st before you spout BS


 
Are you talking about the Mattel power glove?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Glove

"The Power Glove was originally released in 1989.[1] Though it was an officially licensed product, Nintendo was not involved in the design or release of this accessory."

What facts should I be learning and what BS have I spouted?


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