# PS3 hackers can ban legitimate users and unban consoles



## Deleted_171835 (Feb 18, 2011)

I gone through a funny theory, I won't publish any details tho:

1) The bans are based on the users’ account and console ID’s.
2) We can modify all traffic sent and received by the PlayStation3

What if some kiddies start to modify their sent traffic to appear as another user and use backups?

The PSN servers would recognize the TOS violation and check the online user database for known connections based on the ID’s. The user and his consoles who really owns the ID’s would be banned.

Even a simple Windows application which goes through ALL ID’s may be possible. 24 hours and any console worldwide would be banned.

This should definitely be double-checked by SONY.[/p]




 Source

Sony is screwed, now.


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## Schlupi (Feb 18, 2011)

Wow... This is fucked up.

I kinda feel bad for Sony.

LET THE BAN TROLLING BEGIN!


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## benno300 (Feb 18, 2011)

I hope this won't be used by most hacker!


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## Clydefrosch (Feb 18, 2011)

sony isnt screwed.
its more like people will now go and lynch hackers and geohot


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## Koumori_Knight (Feb 18, 2011)

If I had a ps3, I'd probably do this just to force Sony to stfu and start being reasonable about their policies. 
Piracy is bad, but playing backups of games you own should be allowed. It would be nice if they would get ahead of this issue and publish a tool set that allows for the registry of backups to avoid piracy but permit registered fair use.


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## ByteMunch (Feb 18, 2011)

Ehehehehehe... If someone gets EVERYONE banned, some people _might_ be REALLY pissed...


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## Clydefrosch (Feb 18, 2011)

we all know that 95% of all "backups" usually end up in a friends game console.

also, bet you 500$ that everyone would still find a "good reason" to backup games which they arent supposed to do, when sony gave you a 10 year replacement guarantee for broken/scratched games


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 18, 2011)

Clydefrosch said:
			
		

> we all know that 95% of all "backups" usually end up in a friends game console.
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> also, bet you 500$ that everyone would still find a "good reason" to backup games which they arent allowed to do, when sony gave you a 10 year replacement guarantee for broken/scratched games



Yeah you are, you're allowed to back up your legally purchased games.



Also, how the hell are you guys able to type anything other than: "LOL!"?


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## SifJar (Feb 18, 2011)

Wow, just got round to reading the Call of Privacy thing. A bit ridiculous that Sony send credit cards details etc. unsecured. Unless I'm much mistaken, that means anyone using one of those DNS update bypass things (or who has used one) could potentially have had all their credit card details sniffed, as well as console ID and PSN credentials. And I'm gonna assume it wouldn't be too hard to setup a proxy or something to change the console ID and PSN credentials sent by your PS3, to get online back on if you're banned. 

Also, seeing as what you run etc. is sent over the same connection I assume, could it be modified to remove the homebrew entries?


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

Let me ask you something:

Do you guys know your own PS3 Id?

Do you guys REALLY THINK they can get the ID's of other people (who never used CFW or DSN tricks)??

Please, stop saying Sony sends the information unsecured, THAT'S NOT TRUE! READ THE DAMN pdf, it's like this ONLY WITH MODIFIED CONSOLES, they CAN make a CFW which can make these data readable. IF you don't use CFW, you don't have NOTHING to get upset by this. They use SSL, it's as secure as buying from a virtual store like Amazon or Ebay.


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## WiiUBricker (Feb 18, 2011)

This is..no....damn..


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## Rydian (Feb 18, 2011)

HOLD UP.

1 - Where the hell is "unban console"?  I don't see that, and this doesn't involve it.

2 - The IP would be different, and that's a tipoff something's not right.

3 - As said before, you'd need the other person's ID and such.


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

This program (Charles Proxy) really exists, and from what I've read, it really works.


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## Sterling (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Let me ask you something:
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The fact that it is relatively unsecured is worrying enough. Someone with malicious intent could easily sniff my info. Not only is this proven, but it could also cripple the HB scene if there is a lot of CFWs that are legit, but just a few that provide the same services with malicious intent. That would be the way people would get the info to Spoof.


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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No, they couldn't sniff your info, unless you let them modify your console. The only ones who can do malicious things with your console without CFW are Sony themselves.
Stop using Google man, they know everything about you too. =)


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 18, 2011)

Its cruel.. I dont like this program! Not very nice!


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## Sterling (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> No, they couldn't sniff your info, unless you let them modify your console. The only ones who can do malicious things with your console without CFW are Sony themselves.
> Stop using Google man, they know everything about you too. =)


So you think the only way to access data through your network is through a hacked PS3? Wow. All it takes is someone bugging your network. Since the stuff is relatively unsecured, it easily decrypted and used by someone else.


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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LOL, study SSL and answer that again. Do you really think it's easy do break a encryption? The info being sended on PSN is encrypted, it's not something you can open on the notepad.


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## Sterling (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> LOL, study SSL and answer that again. Do you really think it's easy do break a encryption? The info being sended on PSN is encrypted, it's not something you can open on the notepad.


Man, who do you think I am? Notepad, that rarely ever works. Lol, go back and read the article, the hackers were apparently able to decrypt the info with relative ease. Its easy to break an encryption if it isn't implemented properly. Z.Z I don't have the knowledge, but the tools and info is out there for anyone that does and wants to cause mayhem.


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## Maz7006 (Feb 18, 2011)

Lol. 

why are these PS3 "hacking" people such saw loosers. 

so much for your PS3/X "scene" - really all i wanted was a backup loader of course for me PS3 *wink* *wink* /sarcasm

- seriously the way the "hacking" of the PS3 came about just caused shit like this to happen, quite sad, imagine if some of the people that were really into DS homebrew and the kind of things they could do with the PS3


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## jorpor (Feb 18, 2011)

PS3 hackers are the lamest hackers I've ever seen. Sheesh, don't blame this on Sony. They're finally doing stuff for us, legit gamers, to ban these lame ass hackers, and now these g*ddamn hackers can do shit like this.

Seriously, GET A F***ING LIFE!


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## WiiUBricker (Feb 18, 2011)

Well there's a chance this could be fake.


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## Sterling (Feb 18, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> PS3 hackers are the lamest hackers I've ever seen. Sheesh, don't blame this on Sony. They're finally doing stuff for us, legit gamers, to ban these lame ass hackers, and now these g*ddamn hackers can do shit like this.
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> Seriously, GET A F***ING LIFE!
> No, Sony brought this on themselves because they removed features. They asked for it, and they got it. I don't agree with people hacking and stuff on the PSN, and games.
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I don't put much stock in it myself.


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## Gitaroo (Feb 18, 2011)

was on PSX-Scene earlier, they confirmed you need to extract a real ID from a clean console in order to works. You can't randomly generate one and match a real ID, just like 360.


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

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This come from PSX-SCENE. The SCENERS themselves are saying this is only concern for CFW, ANYONE with malycious intent CAN MAKE A CFW to do all this shit. They're not saying OFW has this possibility.
SSL encryption means it IS SECURE. If it wasn't the e-commerce on all the world would be fucked by anyone who could break it.


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## jorpor (Feb 18, 2011)

Yes, removing Other OS was a stupid mistake, but is all shit that's happening now really worth it? They're just screwing things up for the other gamers.


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## Sterling (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh okay, I see. I missed that part. My bad.

(I guess I need to work on my reading skills.)

Wow, you too SifJar. >,


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## SifJar (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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Thanks for posting that quote I understand it now. That's much better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Yes, removing Other OS was a stupid mistake, but is all shit that's happening now really worth it? They're just screwing things up for the other gamers.


Well, we don't know the truth about why they removed Other OS. Maybe it was a bad move, maybe not (if it ended on the same thing it's happening now).


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## Kayouu (Feb 18, 2011)

But I'm just curious if you could technically generate the ID if the other console is already on PSN I would think it would notice identical ID's on PSN and do something, not sure what. lol


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 18, 2011)

Looks like Sony relied a bit too much on platform security....

Maybe they weren't just overreacting if PSN has almost no security


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## Joe88 (Feb 18, 2011)

Kayouu said:
			
		

> But I'm just curious if you could technically generate the ID if the other console is already on PSN I would think it would notice identical ID's on PSN and do something, not sure what. lol


and thats the whole problem with this endeavor

both systems would receive a ban if they go online

if you only allow one system to go online then the system that does needs to be fully removed of all homebrew, hacks, and iso's and what not, then upgraded to 3.56 and hope it doesnt ban the system

its the same exact situation with the 360


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## Maedhros (Feb 18, 2011)

Kayouu said:
			
		

> But I'm just curious if you could technically generate the ID if the other console is already on PSN I would think it would notice identical ID's on PSN and do something, not sure what. lol


Technically, someone could bruteforce generate ID's... but do you know that this would be really ridiculous slow, right?

The other way they could harm innocent people is if they really can discover your ID. This info is not on the back of a PS3 box or anywhere easily available. It's only disponible with CFW or jailbreak.

@Fear Zoa
PSN is secure. I don't know what you're talking about.


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## Hop2089 (Feb 18, 2011)

Sony is screwed big time.


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## SPH73 (Feb 18, 2011)

Dear God, the PS3 is ruined.


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## Jamstruth (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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They make it sound like they can easily get a list of the banned IDs etc. using a piece of PS3 homebrew.


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## shakirmoledina (Feb 18, 2011)

this is a intelligent but cruel way of getting back at sony as it would put the lives (literally) of PSN account holders in a very difficult position
u could make multiple IDs and there would be more IDs on the database than PS3s sold


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## gokujr1000 (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm so glad I sold my PS3 for my XBOX 360. Sony manages to find a way to ban all hackers and in the end the hackers can easily win by banning other people's consoles.

At least with Xbox 360 Piracy Microsoft doesn't go all Rambo and try to ban everyone moving if they use a suspicious program. Sure Microsoft can be just as bad as Sony at times but seriously...


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## nando (Feb 18, 2011)

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves


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## qlum (Feb 18, 2011)

so this can put an ( temp) end to the ban wave when released since sony can't just ban a console if it doesn't know if it really is that console.


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## Joe88 (Feb 18, 2011)

gokujr1000 said:
			
		

> I'm so glad I sold my PS3 for my XBOX 360. Sony manages to find a way to ban all hackers and in the end the hackers can easily win by banning other people's consoles.
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> At least with Xbox 360 Piracy Microsoft doesn't go all Rambo and try to ban everyone moving if they use a suspicious program. Sure Microsoft can be just as bad as Sony at times but seriously...


did no one even read the thread...

they cant just ban everybody else's systems
it requires another hacked PS3 system to obtain a unbanned ID and even then there is a slim chance that they system will not be banned

people did this with JTAG 360's also, they obtain an unbanned system key from another JTAG 360 to uban the system but if they go online hey are banned within minutes
and microsoft does ban people using hacks as well, MS just has to find a way to detect LT+ like they did with the last dvd firmware hack, they cant seem to detect it right now


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## Giga_Gaia (Feb 18, 2011)

This is impossible. There is no way they can obtain a list of PS3 IDs other then the ones for the PS3 they have. They'd need to hack PSN for that and PSN isn't hacked.

They could do that with the console of someone on CFW, but if the person has never gotten online, it's impossible. It's also pointless if the user upgrade to 3.56.

There is also the fact that the trick used at the moment to bypass the firmware check to log on PSN won't last forever. So even if they can unban their consoles, what is the point if they can't even get on PSN because they don't have the firmware?


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## SifJar (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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What makes you think it'd be slow? There are millions of VALID possibilities, so it should be pretty fast. Its not like a common or private key where there are millions of possibilities but only one valid one. I'm guessing its not just a string of random numbers, there's probably some sort of algorithm used to generate them. But I don't think it'd take too long to bruteforce a couple of console IDs (sadly).


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## Rydian (Feb 18, 2011)

SifJar said:
			
		

> But I don't think it'd take too long to bruteforce a couple of console IDs (sadly).


It's a 1 in 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 chance.

Assuming there's a couple million proper IDs (we'll go with 50 mil), that's a one in 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 change of generating a proper ID.  On average the person will need to try that many IDs in order to find a proper one, and since testing one involves connecting to PSN, which takes at least a second or two per try, we can safely assume it's Just Not Happening™.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 18, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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I'll admit, I didn't read the thread, nor do I want to after seeing you and Argentum or whatever his name is bicker and constantly go "LOL DID YOU READ THE THREAD?" "LOL DID YOU READ THE POST?!" "LOL WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!" "LOLOLOL"

but if someone can bruteforce a regular password depending on the speed of their computer in a decent amount of time, it probably isn't that hard with the PS3. And lets be honest, there are A LOT of people in the world today who have great rigs because it's so cheap to get them now.


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## Rydian (Feb 18, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> but if someone can bruteforce a regular password depending on the speed of their computer in a decent amount of time


A regular password is around 8-10 characters long.  A PSN/console ID (from what we can tell) is 64 characters long, and each additional character multiples the number of the previous by 16...

I have no clue why Sony decided to use a *64-digit* hex number, but we can be glad they did.


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## SifJar (Feb 18, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

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Surely it's a *50000000* in 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 change of generating a proper ID, not one. And yeah, OK, that's fairly bad odds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Didn't realise it was 64-bit IDs. That's good I guess. Let's hope no one figures out an algorithm to generate valid IDs.


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## Rydian (Feb 18, 2011)

Yeah, I pasted the original number the second time instead of the result of the division, whoops.


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## SifJar (Feb 19, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Yeah, I pasted the original number the second time instead of the result of the division, whoops.


Regardless, it's slight a really big number


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 19, 2011)

Rayder pointed this article out in the shoutbox this morning (technically yesterday morning (or maybe afternoon) now; just crossed midnight); couldn't submit it myself as I was out. Certainly quite a blunder, yet again, though whether this is as possible in such a short time span as has been claimed, I don't know. It would surprise me if that part was 100% true.



Still, I can imagine the situation if this wasn't being exaggerated at all...

1. Wait 24 hours.
2. Every PS3 is banned.

PROBLEM, SONY?




Probably reversible from Sony's end, but that's certainly close to the ultimate troll. It would only take one person...


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

SifJar said:
			
		

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Anyone who makes an algorithm like this can be called a genious.

And if one is made someday (which I doubt), then Sony is fucked™. That, or if the hackers can discover another way to discover another console IDs... that would only testify to the common user which side is the bad one.

I can't even understand why the people who uses CFW wants to use PSN... there's no reason for it, just use the damn console for homebrew.

@ShadowSoldier
What I was arguing with Argentum was necessary, because he was making wrong assumptions (that was just because he didn't read properly).
You always have to research before you make a post affirming something.


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## Rydian (Feb 19, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> I can't even understand why the people who uses CFW wants to use PSN... there's no reason for it, just use the damn console for homebrew.


You honestly believe that everybody who uses homebrew never plays official games or uses any of the PSN's services? :|


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## iFish (Feb 19, 2011)

I don't know what kinda cunt would want to do these kinda things, but they're the reason Sony, Apple, Nintendo, MS are scared about homebrew and hacks. Since you never know when shit like this may happen....

This is ruining the PS3.


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

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Of course not, but most don't. And because of the most, the "honest" ones pay the price.

Even without PSN, CFW is still interesting. If they really want to use PSN, they'll have to buy 2 PS3's (as I've saw some people on gaf doing) or choose between CFW or PSN. Nothing wrong at all.


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## DJPlace (Feb 19, 2011)

the weird thing that happend to me yestreday is i got kicked off online and then it asked me to accept the terms of sercvies again i mean wth?!?


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## BlueStar (Feb 19, 2011)

iFish said:
			
		

> I don't know what kinda cunt would want to do these kinda things



Presumably the plan behind this concept (which it doesn't seem the person who had the idea is able to impliment) is that if computers are sitting all day spoofing random IDs and sending fake naughty-boy reports to Sony then they won't be able to ban anyone because they won't know who's actually hacked their consoles and whose IDs have been spoofed.


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## Rydian (Feb 19, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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Your sentence focused on whether people had a _reason_ for _wanting_ PSN or not, that's what I was responding to.


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## iFish (Feb 19, 2011)

BlueStar said:
			
		

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Oh... I thought it was to be a cunt and ruin peoples gaming experience.
But knowing Sony, they'll still just ban everybody.

The present and future:
>This tool is made
>Sony bans everybody
>Hackers steal our credit cards
>Sony makes an update that sets our PS3 on fire~

The end.


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## _Chaz_ (Feb 19, 2011)

Hacking a console is not supposed to be like this.

I weep for the scene.


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

There are plans to make a custom PSN, for the users of CFW.


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## Rydian (Feb 19, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> There are plans to make a custom PSN, for the users of CFW.


I have to laugh at that idea.

Who's willing to put up the money?


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

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Apparently, them:
http://pskinect.com/


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## heartgold (Feb 19, 2011)

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Where there is a will, there is a way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





but money...who's fucking loaded?


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## zeromac (Feb 19, 2011)

Koumori_Knight said:
			
		

> If I had a ps3, I'd probably do this just to force Sony to stfu and start being reasonable about their policies.
> *Piracy is bad, but playing backups of games you own should be allowed*. It would be nice if they would get ahead of this issue and publish a tool set that allows for the registry of backups to avoid piracy but permit registered fair use.


The problem is that 99% of people play back-ups they DONT own

EDIT: BTW this isn't news, this is only a theory made by some dude


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## KingVamp (Feb 19, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

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So um, where do you possibility get this data/statics?


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## zeromac (Feb 19, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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People on this here fourm


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## Rydian (Feb 19, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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I'd hate to see their monthly bill.


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## KingVamp (Feb 19, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

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Not only do I not see how you got the data from the forum,but also the forum =/= world.


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

90% of statistics are wrong.


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## Deleted_171835 (Feb 19, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> 90% of statistics are wrong.


This statistic is part of that 90%.
owait.


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## Rydian (Feb 19, 2011)

Sarcasm; done.


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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## notmeanymore (Feb 19, 2011)

So much for Kevin Butler's 2-in-1 Miracle Machine.


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## gameandmatch (Feb 19, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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I don't know, someone on the psp found out about my PSN ID from PSP2 (which does not show it to others, only your character name) when I went in the room, so I think it is possible for them to do the same on PS3


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## Maedhros (Feb 19, 2011)

gameandmatch said:
			
		

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## Sterling (Feb 19, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> I'll admit, I didn't read the thread, nor do I want to after seeing you and Argentum or whatever his name is bicker and constantly go "LOL DID YOU READ THE THREAD?" "LOL DID YOU READ THE POST?!" "LOL WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!" "LOLOLOL"
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I have to admit, this post made me laugh. Will you be here all week?


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 19, 2011)

No way brah, I'm in town for the day, then I'm back out to seattle for a taping of my sitcom.


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## TheDarkSeed (Feb 19, 2011)

All I can imagine is a Sony Fanboy getting banned and asking them why they're doing this. then becomes an angry videogame nerd.


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## Sausage Head (Feb 19, 2011)

they should keep this for themselves. Scriptkiddies do no good.


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## SifJar (Feb 19, 2011)

Sausage Head said:
			
		

> they should keep this for themselves. Scriptkiddies do no good.


No one has released anything. They have just pointed out that it is theoretically possible for a bad CFW to steal your details.


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## GundamXXX (Feb 20, 2011)

SifJar said:
			
		

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which is in its own bad enough

when someone tells you you can easily do something ... dont you give it a shot and try? what if one of those annoying little pricks succeeds?


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Script kiddies wouldn't be able to make it with only the info given.


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## boktor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

This is crap. Thank you Hackers+Geohot for Fucking up the PS3, dicks.


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## SifJar (Feb 20, 2011)

boktor666 said:
			
		

> This is crap. Thank you Hackers+Geohot for Fucking up the PS3, dicks.


No one has done anything to harm your PS3 experience in any way. If you are on OFW, which I must assume judging by your comments towards geohot et al, you have NOTHING to worry about, no one can get your console ID or credit card details, they could only randomly guess your console ID, which has something like a 0.000000000000000000001% chance of happening or something. i.e. it will NOT happen. And they could only get you banned if they did that.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

boktor666 said:
			
		

> This is crap. Thank you Hackers+Geohot for Fucking up the PS3, dicks.


Please read the thread before you post.


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## ThePowerOutage (Feb 20, 2011)

Console IDs are supposed to be random aren't they? 

Since Sonys random no. Generator is broken they probably go up in ones.


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## SifJar (Feb 20, 2011)

ThePowerOutage said:
			
		

> Console IDs are supposed to be random aren't they?
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 True. But I'd say it was a proprietary algorithm used to generate the codes, so they'd have implemented it properly. It wasn't that they couldn't generate random numbers possibly, it was that they failed at implementing the security algorithm, and used the same random number each time.


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## Marlonguppy (Feb 25, 2011)

Well, this is one of the 100 threads of GBATemp why I did never buy a Sony PS3 or PSP.
Yay, Nintendo. I think Sony's (web-)protection really fails now. I think the security is even worse than GBATemp with protection (not that GBATemp is worse).


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## Kayouu (Feb 25, 2011)

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yeah really like say I used my quad 12core server to figure out some algorithmic equation to rdmly gen ids. connect to sony and test them there must be some piece of data that they reply with saying id is right or wrong.


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