# USA - Russia is mocking you for bringing home a junkie!



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

Well in yet another failure from the Biden admin, you traded a black lesbian junkie that hates America, and swapped her for an arms dealer. But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying.....

Now the world Russia is laughing at you:


Read the captions.


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## xBleedingSoulx (Dec 10, 2022)

Makes a change from the rest of the world laughing at Russia.


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## qqq1 (Dec 10, 2022)

Best part is she's still a criminal federally and in many states here in the USA.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

I know russian propaganda is hard to identify some times... but come on guys, youre not even trying.


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## smf (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Well in yet another failure from the Biden admin, you traded a black lesbian junkie that hates America, and swapped her for an arms dealer. But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying.....
> 
> Now the world Russia is laughing at you:
> 
> ...



Why would you try to troll USA using Russian TV, when nobody literally cares what those retards put out?

I guess you're struggling for trolling material. Maybe you should try trolling the Russians, they are snowflakes and get all huffy at the slightest thing.


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## wartutor (Dec 10, 2022)

Im not happy about this trade. If i smuggle in drugs from another country here in the USA i am preaty damn sure it is still a crime punishable by jail time. Yet these political figures want to go on television and Twitter talkin how she was wrongly detained. It is still a crime here in America so how the fuck is she wrongfully detain. Lets get down to it she was traded for because she was a black lesbian. And to top it off we traded the merchant of death for this fuckin criminal. So how many are going to die because democrats believe certain people dont have to follow laws.


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## lokomelo (Dec 10, 2022)

The world indeed laughs a lot of Joe Biden, and his decisions, I really mean it. There is no respect for his figure either, at least here, he is portrayed as a person with senile dementia.

But there was a period on USA's history where the world laughed much muuuuuuuuuch more, and that was the Trump administration. He was on the news every day, on every country always portrayed as dumb, and very often used as reinforcement of all American bad (and even xenophobic) stereotypes (fat, racist, uneducated, unaware of any other culture and so on).

Biden administration is a disaster, but a disaster in a much smaller scale.

As for the exchange itself. There lady is famous, that's what saved her. Black and homosexuals don't even need to smuggle drugs to Russia to be killed. They get killed just by walking on the Murica streets (a sad fact also true in other places on earth, like where I live for example). What saved that lady was not PR or social justice. It was solely fame.


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## SG854 (Dec 10, 2022)

The world is laughing at Putin more


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## Reploid (Dec 10, 2022)

Be mindful that there is a fine line between the whole country and one crazy usurper and his lackeys.


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## RustInPeace (Dec 10, 2022)

GBATemp adding a politics section will forever be the biggest mistake made here.


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## CMDreamer (Dec 10, 2022)

Biden is such a puppet, but "The People" are not his puppeteers, but all the "third party" money invested on getting him into the white hostel.

Most -if not all- news on YT are false and completely for framing naives, that's how US politicians (or most politicians all over the world) do their "job". But there are some that not even try to improve and will keep doing the same crap over and over, as long as "The People" believe it.


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## Smoker1 (Dec 10, 2022)

Biden has no room to talk about Gun Control with this crap.


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## Hayato213 (Dec 10, 2022)

I am American and I do think this is a bad trade.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

wartutor said:


> Im not happy about this trade. If i smuggle in drugs from another country here in the USA i am preaty damn sure it is still a crime punishable by jail time. Yet these political figures want to go on television and Twitter talkin how she was wrongly detained. It is still a crime here in America so how the fuck is she wrongfully detain. Lets get down to it she was traded for because she was a black lesbian. And to top it off we traded the merchant of death for this fuckin criminal. So how many are going to die because democrats believe certain people dont have to follow laws.


If she'd have pulled that drug trafficking stuff in a middle eastern coutry or somewhere like Thailand she'd be lucky not to be put to death. If you do the crime, do the time and face up to the consequences for your actions. Still hopefully that stint in prison has knocked some sense into the stupid bint.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 10, 2022)

Sooo... Why should we care about what Russian propaganda churns out?

But ey... Congrats. You've found a news source that's even less reliable than fox News.
...
I guess it's not easy being against Biden if you've got to dig this deep to find some dirt.


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## Xzi (Dec 10, 2022)

Lmao that's a new one, naive child thinks smoking weed makes you a "junkie."

Meanwhile, Russia can't even afford shirts and socks for their soldiers.  Not exactly in a position where their criticisms will be taken seriously.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Sooo... Why should we care about what Russian propaganda churns out?


It's not propoganda though is it, it's just a fact that a convicted black junkie woman that was smuggling drugs into another country (because she couldn't do without them for a few days) was swapped in a prisoner exchange for someone far more dangerous. What you don't seem to realise now is that countries throughout the world will be arresting Americans and putting them in prison and will let them rot until they can swap them out with people they want released from prison. If you don't think people throughout the world are looking on at this weakness, you are mistaken. Also all this woke stuff going on in USA just makes you guys look like pathetic losers.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It's not propoganda though is it, it's just a fact that a convicted black junkie woman that was smuggling drugs into another country (because she couldn't do without them for a few days) was swapped in a prisoner exchange for someone far more dangerous. What you don't seem to realise now is that countries throughout the world will be arresting Americans and putting them in prison and will let them rot until they can swap them out with people they want released from prison. If you don't think people throughout the world are looking on at this weakness, you are mistaken. Also all this woke stuff going on in USA just makes you guys look like pathetic losers.


What you don't seem to realise is that i don't give a damn about Russian television.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It's not propoganda though is it, it's just a fact that a convicted black junkie woman that was smuggling drugs into another country (because she couldn't do without them for a few days) was swapped in a prisoner exchange for someone far more dangerous. What you don't seem to realise now is that countries throughout the world will be arresting Americans and putting them in prison and will let them rot until they can swap them out with people they want released from prison. If you don't think people throughout the world are looking on at this weakness, you are mistaken. Also all this woke stuff going on in USA just makes you guys look like pathetic losers.


"Black junkie woman". A vape pen with thc that you forgot was in your bag doesn't make you a junkie. So you're only factually pointing out thats shes black and a woman. And if you think that is enough to make her unworthy of being rescued by her country, then you're racist and sexist.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> What you don't seem to realise is that i don't give a damn about Russian television.


I don't really care what you think about Russian TV, what I do care about is the image the USA is giving out to other countries, and it's not good. In the last few years USA has looked weak and pathetic and this is just another one of those many things that has happened in the last few years that is making the USA look like the laughing stock of the world just now.

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WeedZ said:


> "Black junkie woman". A vape pen with thc that you forgot was in your bag doesn't make you a junkie. So you're only factually pointing out thats shes black and a woman. And if you think that is enough to make her unworthy of being rescued by her country, then you're racist and sexist.


She is still a convcited drug smuggler and will be carrying that around with her for the rest of her life now. I have zero time for druggies, and zero time for this American Hating wretch who wouldn;t even stand for your national anthem and openly told people how she despised being American. They should have left her to serve out her sentence, that way justice would have been done. There's many people in your prisons that were convicted for smoking drugs - they are still in prison though. Maybe Biden can get them all released as well, but they are not known so they will languish away while this wretched hag is walking about free.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I don't really care what you think about Russian TV, what I do care about is the image the USA is giving out to other countries, and it's not good. In the last few years USA has looked weak and pathetic and this is just another one of those many things that has happened in the last few years that is making the USA look like the laughing stock of the world just now.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022
> 
> ...


Oh yes, quite a drug smuggler with that vape. Such a danger to russian society. No way she could have been given such a stiff sentence simply for being a national of the country they are in a proxy war with. No, Russia is well known for being fair and rational in justice and war. And thank you, non-american, for looking out..

At least try to hide your prejudices..


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> At least try to hide your prejudices..


Prejudice against what - junkies? Drug smugglers? or people that claimed to hate the USA, then begged it for help when faced with a cold dose of reality? And at the same time made your country look even more weak and pathetic?


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## g00s3y (Dec 10, 2022)

OP seems to be the only thing weak and pathetic. But what else should you expect from an incel?


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## lolcatzuru (Dec 10, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> What you don't seem to realise is that i don't give a damn about Russian television.



I think the larger question is why doesnt he realize you have a sickness and nothing anyone says to you is going to change your mind, you are happy she's home you don't care what happens and you dont care what anyone says, and im sure you are foaming at the mouth waiting for the tell all book.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

g00s3y said:


> OP seems to be the only thing weak and pathetic. But what else should you expect from an incel?


I've been married for 35 years, I'll let the wife know I'm an incel later and ask her where those damn pesky kids came from.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Prejudice against what - junkies? Drug smugglers? or people that claimed to hate the USA, then begged it for help when faced with a cold dose of reality? And at the same time made your country look weak and pathetic?


Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you honestly believe a successful professional athlete is a junkie? Or that a vape with no intent to distribute is smuggling, or that not wanting the national anthem played means you hate your country? I'm gauging your mental maturity here.


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## Hanafuda (Dec 10, 2022)

I think this tells Russia and other terror-sponsoring and/or despotic states that if they can detain or imprison an American citizen, especially one who will pull sympathy from left-leaning Americans, then the US government is willing to let the most despicable mass-murdering devils go free and go home, just for the positive optics of securing the poor darling-child's release. 

So expect it to happen again.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you honestly believe a successful professional athlete is a junkie?


Anyone that can't travel to another country without needing to smuggle their drugs through customs so they can get their hit - is by definition a junkie in my book.

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Hanafuda said:


> I think this tells Russia and other terror-sponsoring and/or despotic states that if they can detain or imprison an American citizen, especially one who will pull sympathy from left-leaning Americans, then the US government is willing to let the most despicable mass-murdering devils go free and go home, just for the positive optics of securing the poor darling-child's release.
> 
> So expect it to happen again.


You get it dude, this is exactly what is going to happen.


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## KingVamp (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying.....


So did Trump.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Anyone that can't travel to another country without needing to smuggle their drugs through customs so they can get their hit - is by definition a junkie in my book.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022
> 
> ...


Any definition that is "by my book" is the opposite of a definition. Its a prejudice. Clearly you have no idea how thc affects people. Because her forgetting it was in her bag is FAR more likely than "needing a hit". Its not heroin dude.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

Just in case any of you forum readers are thinking it's OK to be a drug smuggler - here's a list of countries where you could be put to death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking

Expect some heavy duty prison time in other countries if caught. Just remember that the world is not the USA, and the crap you can get away with in USA doesn't cut it in most other parts of the world.


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## AmandaRose (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> She is still a convcited drug smuggler and will be carrying that around with her for the rest of her life now. I have zero time for druggies, and zero time for this American Hating wretch who wouldn;t even stand for your national anthem and openly told people how she despised being American. They should have left her to serve out her sentence, that way justice would have been done. There's many people in your prisons that were convicted for smoking drugs - they are still in prison though. Maybe Biden can get them all released as well, but they are not known so they will languish away while this wretched hag is walking about free.


What on earth are you on about? She was found with less than 0.7 grams of cannabis oil. You know cannabis oil that is legal in 47 states in America and is prescribed by doctors around the world for medical reasons. Using cannabis oil does not make you a Junkie or indeed a druggie as you keep claiming.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Just in case any of you forum readers are thinking it's OK to be a drug smuggler - here's a list of countries where you could be put to death.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking
> 
> Expect some heavy duty prison time in other countries if caught. Just remember that the world is not the USA, and the crap you can get away with in USA doesn't cut it in most other parts of the world.


You know whats more illegal in other countries? Espionage. But you think the spy is more deserving of freedom?


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Any definition that is "by my book" is the opposite of a definition. Its a prejudice. Clearly you have no idea how thc affects people. Because her forgetting it was in her bag is FAR more likely than "needing a hit". Its not heroin dude.


That's no defence, the drug smuggling hag was caught fair and square, convicted in a court of law and brought your country, her team mates and herself into disrepute. She is now a forever convicted drug smuggler. Mabye now she can turn her life around and thank god that Russia let her go and people helped her to come home without fininshing her sentence. Now hopefully she can be forgotten by the masses as she isn't a good example to set for young people, she's quite the opposite in fact.

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AmandaRose said:


> What on earth are you on about? She was found with less than 0.7 grams of cannabis oil. You know cannabis oil that is legal in 47 states in America.


The stuff that's legal in USA is illegal elsewhere - you follow the laws of the country you are in and if you don't you should expect to be dealt with and face justice. Guns are legal in USA, however if I was to have one in my country I'd be looking at 5 years in prison. Go figure.....

	Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022



WeedZ said:


> You know whats more illegal in other countries? Espionage. But you think the spy is more deserving of freedom?


I've not said anything of the sort - so don't try and put words into my mouth, stick to factual posts - not some made up stuff you just thought up in your head,


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> That's no defence, the drug smuggling hag was caught fair and square, convicted in a court of law and brought your country, her team mates and herself into disrepute. She is now a forever convicted drug smuggler. Mabye now she can turn her life around and thank god that Russia let her go and people helped her to come home without fininshing her sentence. Now hopefully she can be forgotten by the masses as she isn't a good example to set for young people, she's quite the opposite in fact.


So you're being deliberately obtuse. Its prejudice and political bias that drives your opinions. Theres no point in even arguing with someone that doesn't value the truth.


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## AmandaRose (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> The stuff that's legal in USA is illegal elsewhere - you follow the laws of the country you are in and if you don't you should expect to be dealt with and face justice. Guns are legal in USA, however if I was to have one in my country I'd be looking at 5 years in prison. Go figure.....


So you totally missed my point didn't you. So let me say it again she had something that is used as a medicine. Using medicine does not make you a junkie or a druggy as you keep falsely claiming.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> So you're being deliberately obtuse. Its prejudice and political bias that drives your opinions. Theres no point in even arguing with someone that doesn't value the truth.


The only truth was that this woman was caught fair and square at customs in Russia,trying to bring drugs into the country, got caught, was tried and convicted and sent to prison for her crime. There's nothing prejudice about stating the facts.


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## AmandaRose (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> The only truth was that this woman was caught fair and square at customs in Russia,trying to bring drugs into the country, got caught, was tried and convicted and sent to prison for her crime. There's nothing prejudice about stating the facts.


The prejudice from you is you felt some need to point out that she was both black and a lesbian when neither has anything at all to do with the supposed actual crime. 

Why you thought the need to meantion either in your original post says more about you than anything else.


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## WeedZ (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> The only truth was that this woman was caught fair and square at customs in Russia,trying to bring drugs into the country, got caught, was tried and convicted and sent to prison for her crime. There's nothing prejudice about stating the facts.


Then I hope you have the integrity to stand by your convictions and ask the courts for the maximum prison sentence the next time you accidently walk out a store with a candy bar, or have car accident, or any number of things that happen every day that typically get a slap on the wrist. Wouldnt want you to be hypocrite.


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## AmandaRose (Dec 10, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Then I hope you have the integrity to stand by your convictions and ask the courts for the maximum prison sentence the next time you accidently walk out a store with a candy bar, or have car accident, or any number of things that happen every day that typically get a slap on the wrist. Wouldnt want you to be hypocrite.


Exactly not a single person on this site can say they have never accidentally or unknowingly broke a law at some point in their life.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> So you totally missed my point didn't you. So let me say it again she had something that is used as a medicine. Using medicine does not make you a junkie or a druggy as you keep falsely claiming.


It was still illegal to smuggle it into a country though, she tried to smuggle it by concealing it so she knew it was wrong. If she required medicine, perhaps she shouldn't have been flying in and out of countries and hiding her "medicine". I've no doubt she survived in prison without taking her "medicine". Still 10 years in a Siberian gulag might have shown her the error of her ways, meh - maybe the next time if she's caught she won't be so lucky.

Look at the problems she has caused, she's made USA look weak and now we have an international arms dealer roaming around the world again, all thanks to the self entitlement of this wretched harridan.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022



AmandaRose said:


> The prejudice from you is you felt some need to point out that she was both black and a lesbian when neither has anything at all to do with the supposed actual crime.
> 
> Why you thought the need to meantion either in your original post says more about you than anything else.


Haha, you never watched the video did you! The TV presenters clearly started this was the reason the Biden admin wanted this junkie drug smuggler released, If you are going to post - at least know what you are talking about.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022



WeedZ said:


> Then I hope you have the integrity to stand by your convictions and ask the courts for the maximum prison sentence the next time you accidently walk out a store with a candy bar, or have car accident, or any number of things that happen every day that typically get a slap on the wrist. Wouldnt want you to be hypocrite.


I certainly won't be trying to smuggle drugs through customs in some foreign country where if caught I will likely be jailed or killed.


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## AmandaRose (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It was still illegal to smuggle it into a country though, she try to smuggle it by concealing it so she knew it was wrong. If she required medicine, perhaps she shouldn't have been flying in and out of countries and hiding her "medicine". I've no doubt she survived in prison without taking her "medicine". Still 10 years in a Siberian gulag might have shown her the error of her ways, meh - maybe the next time if she's caught she won't be so lucky.
> 
> Look at the problems she has caused, she's made USA look weak and now we have an international arms dealer roaming around the world again, all thanks to the self entitlement of this wretched harridan.


So I see you still won't admit you are wrong with you false claim the  she is druggy/Junkie.

Answer me this in your original post you said she was a black lesbian junkie. If she was white and straight would you have posted that she was a white straight junkie??

We both know the answer to that is no you wouldn't so once again the fact you felt some kind of need to point out she was black and a lesbian says more about you than it does about her.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> So I see you still won't admit you are wrong with you false claim the  she is druggy/Junkie.


Why would I admit I am wrong??? She's the one that was caught smuggling the drugs through customs so she could get her hit. If you can't accept that as a fact, well there's no hope for you. That's just what junkies do, like it of lump it, that's just life.


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## TraderPatTX (Dec 10, 2022)

So I guess it's safe to say that Biden is Putin's puppet and since Saudi Arabia helped facilitate this trade, he is also a puppet of the Saudis too.

I feel so much at ease with the adults in charge. It takes smart people to release the Merchant of Death just in time for World War III to break out.

On the plus side, countries now have the green light to arrest and detain virtual nobodies and trade them for high value people. At least the Marine who is still languishing in a Russian gulag can rest easy knowing that a black female was placed before him because of how much money she has.

Trump had over 30+ people released from foreign prisons and never had to make a trade. Biden should read The Art of the Deal. He has much to learn.


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## AmandaRose (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Why would I admit I am wrong??? She's the one that was caught smuggling the drugs through customs so she could get her hit. If you can't accept that as a fact, well there's no hope for you. That's just what junkies do, like it of lump it, that's just life.


So she was caught with cannabis oil which has been scientifically proven NOT to be addictive ok so look at the definition of a Junkie. A Junkie is someone who is ADDICTED to something. 

Who the heck is she then a Junkie?


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I feel so much at ease with the adults in charge. It takes smart people to release the Merchant of Death just in time for World War III to break out.


You also forgot to mention that the Biden admin left $80 billion worth of weapons in Afghanistan for the taliban (including night vision equipment) and now there's heaps of weapons bein sold on the black market in Europe and Ukraine thanks to USA sending a whole bunch of weapons to a corrupt county with loads of corrupt politicians and a dictator running the show. Many of these weapons have been found in other parts of Europe now, not to mention the Russians will be wanting retaliation for the Nord stream pipeline at some point. There's also the fact that since the west is weak now - Russia has been arming Iran, so I expect something to kick off there as well at some point in the near future.


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## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

Not buying this "oh, I forgot that this controlled substance won't make it through customs."

I think she honestly thought her privilege would extend to Russia.  I guess, now, it provably does, but not without some jail time first.

I wouldn't call her a junkie, and I wouldn't say that just because marijuana isn't innately addictive that people cannot form an addiction (ie unhealthy dependence) on it.

Whether it's Russian propaganda or American (ie "Western") propaganda, there are salvageable facts/points.  

The American soldier.  Why does America appear to forget him?

If you want to dismiss what Russia says because they are the enemy or something, don your boots and save the world; quit pretending that you are apart of an open conversation.


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## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

"Junkie" with that size of a hash cartridge.  That's Russian propaganda for you.


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## Xzi (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> "Junkie" with that size of a hash cartridge.  That's Russian propaganda for you.


Don't worry, conservatives love America.  They just hate 95% of the people living here and would prefer if Russia falsely imprisoned them for life.  That's _true_ freedom.


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## g00s3y (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I've been married for 35 years, I'll let the wife know I'm an incel later and ask her where those damn pesky kids came from.


You can be an incel and married, example: you.

"pesky kids", LMAO. You sound like a scooby doo villain. Boomer in every way.


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## TraderPatTX (Dec 10, 2022)

You can tell the left's priorities when the only comments on this thread are people concerned about her being called a junkie instead of the guy who has threatened and enabled the killing of Americans.

Hey leftists, the nickname of the guy who was just traded is "The Merchant of Death". It's probably safe to say that he earned that nickname for a reason.


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## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> "Junkie" with that size of a hash cartridge.  That's Russian propaganda for you.



If you are willing to jeopardize your life over something that you think shouldn't be a big deal, the point of an unhealthy reliance has merit.  The other side of the coin is that it is a form of protest.  I guess negligence would be neutral.

Some cultures are more stringent about drugs than others.  In Japan, for example, having THC in your system is legally decided as "possession" and can get you jail time.  (Exile if you are a foreigner.)  It's not exactly propaganda if the media accurately represents the culture.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

g00s3y said:


> You can be an incel and married, example: you.
> 
> "pesky kids", LMAO. You sound like a scooby doo villain. Boomer in every way.


I'll take your word for it, you seem to know far more about incels than me, I had to look that word up on the internet to see what it meant.


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## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you are willing to jeopardize your life over something that you think shouldn't be a big deal, the point of an unhealthy reliance has merit.  The other side of the coin is that it is a form of protest.  I guess negligence would be neutral.
> 
> Some cultures are more stringent about drugs than others.  In Japan, for example, having THC in your system is legally decided as "possession" and can get you jail time.  (Exile if you are a foreigner.)  It's not exactly propaganda if the media accurately represents the culture.


Are you really trying to debate me if that size of a hash cartridge makes her a junkie?  Because that's all I'm addressing here, and it's not even a question, she's not one at all lol.  Now if the question is was she smart to have even that small of a cartridge on her in a place like Russia, well that's another question entirely that I wasn't even addressing.


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## Viri (Dec 10, 2022)

It was a pretty shitty deal. I'd rather keep the "merchant of death" locked behind bars. If anything, we should have executed him.


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## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Are you really trying to debate me if that size of a hash cartridge makes her a junkie?  Because that's all I'm addressing here, and it's not even a question, she's not one at all lol.  Now if the question is was she smart to have even that small of a cartridge on her in a place like Russia, well that's another question entirely that I wasn't even addressing.



My point is that it may not matter how much it was.  By Russian standards, she might be a junkie.  If that's an accurate portrayal of Russian sentiment, I don't really know.  I know that it is kind of like that in Japan.  Also, I don't know the veracity of the translation.  The "propaganda" you see may be coming from the English.


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## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> My point is that it may not matter how much it was.*  By Russian standards, she might be a junkie. * If that's an accurate portrayal of Russian sentiment, I don't really know.  I know that it is kind of like that in Japan.


Yes, and by Russian standards, the Ukrainian people are Nazis.  I'm strictly speaking in terms of what words actually mean, she doesn't fit the description of an actual junkie at all.  Hence my decry of it being Russian propaganda.


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## Xzi (Dec 10, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Hey leftists, the nickname of the guy who was just traded is "The Merchant of Death". It's probably safe to say that he earned that nickname for a reason.


A washed up old man whose connections are all dead or in jail, being sent to what's currently the most isolated and heavily-sanctioned country on Earth.  Ooh, scawwy.  

Dude's already spilled his guts to the feds, literally his only remaining worth was as an exchange.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yes, and by Russian standards, the Ukrainian people are Nazis.  I'm strictly speaking in terms of what words actually mean, she doesn't fit the description of an actual junkie at all.  Hence my decry of it being Russian propaganda.



Are you trying to be ironic by using propaganda to make the point that people who do drugs are not junkies?  Culturally speaking, doing drugs at all can make one a junkie.  Again, the veracity of the translation is questionable too.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Are you trying to be ironic by using propaganda to make the point that people who do drugs are not junkies?  Culturally speaking, doing drugs at all can make one a junkie.  Again, the veracity of the translation is questionable too.


I'm not being ironic at all, I'm pointing out that the government dictating that even the smallest amount of drugs on you makes you an automatic junkie, is propaganda by it's very definition, I'm not sure what's to even debate on this matter.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not being ironic at all, I'm pointing out that the government dictating that even the smallest amount of drugs on you makes you an automatic junkie, is propaganda by it's very definition, I'm not sure what's to even debate on this matter.



If you are willing to stake your safety and your entire future on a small dose of THC oil, you may have a problem.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you are willing to stake the safety of your entire future on a small dose of THC oil, you may have a problem.


Again, not what I'm debating.  I'm simply stating the label of junkie on her is pure propaganda.

I wonder if they've arrested any 'junkies' over the years over there whose drug of choice was caffeine via their daily coffee.  Wouldn't be surprised at all.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yes, and by Russian standards, the Ukrainian people are Nazis.


To be fair, there is a lot of Nazi types in Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> To be fair, there is a lot of Nazi types in Ukraine.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY


K, ultimately inconsequential to my actual argument.  But noted I guess.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm simply stating the label of junkie on her is pure propaganda.



I'm stating that your view of "culture being different" being "propaganda" is a little broken.



MikaDubbz said:


> I wonder if they've arrested any 'junkies' over the years over there whose drug of choice was caffeine via their daily coffee. Wouldn't be surprised at all.



Coffee junkies exist everywhere.  I don't know where they get arrested.  People normally get arrested for possession, not being a junkie.  The notion she was willing to risk so much for so little is more of a case of her being a junkie than if she had pallets of it.



MikaDubbz said:


> K, ultimately inconsequential to my actual argument



Which was the irony of you putting out your own propaganda to "call out propaganda".


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'm stating that your view of "culture being different" being "propaganda" is a little broken.


The government telling you that any amount of a controlled substance instantly makes you a junkie is pure propaganda, you can try and argue around that all you want, but it is what it is.  Just as those anti-drug PSAs back in the 80s in America were pure propganda too.  Yes drugs can be bad, and yes you can get addicted to them, but what makes a junkie a junkie is not dictated by the government, it's dictated by the body with the addiction.  And again, she is not a body with an addiction that would qualify her as a junkie.  Sure by "Russian standards" she is, but in reality, she is not at all.



tabzer said:


> Coffee junkies exist everywhere.  I don't know where they get arrested.  People normally get arrested for possession, not being a junkie.  The notion she was willing to risk so much for so little is more of a case of her being a junkie than if she had pallets of it.\


Well no wonder you have such a messed up view of what makes a junkie a junkie.   A 'coffee junkie' isn't a real thing.  You want to know what a junkie is?  It's someone that will suck your dick in an alleyway for their next fix.  It's someone that will break into their neighbor's house and steal their TV and sell it at a pawn shop for their next fix.  I know you know what a real junkie is, and I hope to God you actually do recognize that she isn't a real junkie at all, but she is, sure, by "Russian standards," another name for which would clearly be Propaganda.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> You want to know what a junkie is?  It's someone that will suck your dick in an alleyway for their next fix.


And by that same standard, someone that will try to conceal and smuggle drugs through a foreign countries customs so they can get their next fix.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> And by that same standard, someone that will try to conceal and smuggle drugs through a foreign countries customs so they can get their next fix.


You think if she didn't have that cartridge and had no money on her, that she was seriously going to go into a back alley to suck off a stranger to get enough money to buy more marijuana?  Seriously!?

She was just a cocky idiot and thought she could get away with it, I guarantee she didn't _need _it.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> You think if she didn't have that cartridge and had no money on her, that she was seriously going to go into a back alley to suck off a stranger to get enough money to buy more marijuana?  Seriously!?
> 
> She was just a cocky idiot and thought she could get away with it, I guarantee she didn't _need _it.


Well one things for sure - she's not had many drugs in the last few months unless she's been on her knees sucking on a prison guards purple oboe.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Well one things for sure - she's not had many drugs in the last few months unless she's been on her knees sucking on a prison guards purple oboe.


Yeah, I find it hard to believe she's shivering in the fetal position in the corner because she hasn't had her fix of weed.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> The government telling you that any amount of a controlled substance instantly makes you a junkie is pure propaganda, you can try and argue around that all you want, but it is what it is.  Just as those anti-drug PSAs back in the 80s in America were pure propganda too.  Yes drugs can be bad, and yes you can get addicted to them, but what makes a junkie a junkie is not dictated by the government, it's dictated by the body with the addiction.  And again, she is not a body with an addiction that would qualify her as a junkie.  Sure by "Russian standards" she is, but in reality, she is not at all.
> 
> Well no wonder you have such a messed up view of what makes a junkie a junkie.   A 'coffee junkie' isn't a real thing.  You want to know what a junkie is?  It's someone that will suck your dick in an alleyway for their next fix.  It's someone that will break into their neighbor's house and steal their TV and sell it at a pawn shop for their next fix.  I know you know what a real junkie is, and I hope to God you actually do recognize that she isn't a real junkie at all, but she is, sure, by "Russian standards," another name for which would clearly be Propaganda.



I admit that there is propagandic messaging in labelling people as junkies for simply using, but the other side of the argument is that breaking a law with heavy consequences for a "proclivity" is comparable to someone sucking dick in an alleyway for their previous fix.

I would smoke marijuana in a place where it is legal, but I wouldn't ever do it in Japan.  In one situation I can do it without being a junkie and the other I cannot do it without substantial risk to my life.

The laws can be artificial and even stupid, but the actual consequences are where the weight is.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yeah, I find it hard to believe she's shivering in the fetal position in the corner because she hasn't had her fix of weed.


She was probably lying in a corner in the fetal position crying because she tried to have her fix of weed - and got caught!


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I admit that there is propagandic messaging in labelling people as junkies for simply using, but the other side of the argument is that breaking a law with heavy consequences for a "proclivity" is comparable to someone sucking dick in an alleyway for their previous fix.
> 
> I would smoke marijuana in a place where it is legal, but I wouldn't ever do it in Japan.  In one situation I can do it without being a junkie and the other I cannot do it without substantial risk to my life.
> 
> The laws can be artificial and even stupid, but the actual consequences are where the weight is.


I'm not saying laws weren't broken and that none of this should have happened or anything like that.  I've only been arguing that the label of junkie put upon her is not true to what she really is, and as such it reads as propaganda.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022



mrdude said:


> She was probably lying in a corner in the fetal position crying because she tried to have her fix of weed - and got caught!


In reality marijuana withdrawal just isn't a thing, not like hard drugs anyway, which is probably why junkies of the plant aren't really a thing.  Probably one of the easier things to quit in life cold turkey, sure you'll have cravings but let's not pretend that's the same as the heroine addict balled up in a corner drenched in a cold sweat with a bucket full of vomit as they try and shake the habbit once and for all.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not saying laws weren't broken and that none of this should have happened or anything like that.  I've only been arguing that the label of junkie put upon her is not true to what she really is, and as such it reads as propaganda.



I think I'd argue that the label of junkie is not true to what anybody is.  You may see a culture as being obtuse to American progressivism, but if they are being honest about their cultural views, I can't call it propaganda.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I think I'd argue that the label of junkie is not true to what anybody is.  You may see a culture as being obtuse to American progressivism, but if they are being honest about their cultural views, I can't call it propaganda.


Well, living in the world where the term junkie applies to a certain kind of people, I would say there is a pretty clear distinction between what qualifies and what does not.  Brittney simply does not.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Again, not what I'm debating.  I'm simply stating the label of junkie on her is pure propaganda.
> 
> I wonder if they've arrested any 'junkies' over the years over there whose drug of choice was caffeine via their daily coffee.  Wouldn't be surprised at all.


You do know that the label of the other person in the trade is "Merchant of Death". Is that propaganda or do you think he might have earned that label?

So the propaganda threw in a word you didn't like and that is what the left is focused on. You literally fell for the propaganda that you claim to notice and all of a sudden nobody is talking about the arms dealer responsible for 10's of thousands or more American deaths.

Understanding > reacting


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> You do know that the label of the other person in the trade is "Merchant of Death". Is that propaganda or do you think he might have earned that label?


None of this matters to what I've been debating.  I love how people want me to argue about other aspects, when all I want to address is the fact that she is not a junkie by any definition and for Russia to be declaring her as such, is propaganda.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not saying laws weren't broken and that none of this should have happened or anything like that.  I've only been arguing that the label of junkie put upon her is not true to what she really is, and as such it reads as propaganda.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022
> 
> ...


Well I am sure Viktor Bout & Mr Putin aren't concerned whether she's a junkie or not - but thanks to her poor life choices we now have every government with a beef to grind with the USA looking to jail US citizens so they can do their own prisoner swapping deals. Still they could have got Paul Whelan (ex-marine) out instead, but he wasn't a gay, he was the wrong sex and he wasn't coloured enough, so the Biden admin have left him to rot away and USA now have another convicted drug smuggler walking the streets instead of a patriot. It just show's what the Biden admin think about their ex-forces. You can see why people are laughing, because for USA identify politics trumps all. This will be your own downfall.


----------



## Nothereed (Dec 10, 2022)

When is it ever acceptable during a rescue/trade to go "nah actually, we want only this one. This one doesn't deserve it"
She went into russsia SEVERAL times. It was only until the last Russia decided to take action,and odds are it was for a political trade like this. Is it a bad trade?
Yeah. But, It's better get the person home than stuck in Russia. And your only making a fuss about it now, we done shit like this before.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Well I am sure Viktor Bout & Mr Putin aren't concerned whether she's a junkie or not - but thanks to her poor life choices we now have every government with a beef to grind with the USA looking to jail US citizens so they can do their own prisoner swapping deals. Still they could have got Paul Whelan (ex-marine) out instead, but he wasn't a gay, he was the wrong sex and he wasn't coloured enough, so the Biden admin have left him to rot away and USA now have another convicted drug smuggler walking the streets instead of a patriot. It just show's what the Biden admin think about their ex-forces. You can see why people are laughing, because for USA identify politics trumps all. This will be your own downfall.


Maybe I'd pay more attention to the other aspects of this if I could get past the BS they're putting up front.  This was a terrible deal, I don't disagree with that, but that doesn't change how she's simply not a junkie lol.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> None of this matters to what I've been debating.  I love how people want me to argue about other aspects, when all I want to address is the fact that she is not a junkie by any definition and for Russia to be declaring her as such, is propaganda.



I love how Americans think only their culture matters, and the rest is just propaganda.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> but that doesn't change how she's simply not a junkie lol.


That's just your personal opinion, my opinion differs from yours. Anyone willing to smuggle drugs into a coutry so they can take them later is a junkie in my opinion.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I love how Americans think only their culture matters, and the rest is just propaganda.


So you think while she was in prison over there without any weed, she was balled up, in a cold sweat, shivering and vomiting because she hasn't had her fix?  Cuz that would make her a junkie, I'll give you that, but I think we both know she wasn't having weed withdrawal at all.  She's not a real junkie, she's a "Russian standards" junkie as you put it, but not an actual junkie.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> So you think while she was in prison over there without any weed, she was balled up, in a cold sweat, shivering and vomiting because she hasn't had her fix?  Cuz that would make her a junkie, I'll give you that, but I think we both know she wasn't having weed withdrawal at all.  She's not a real junkie, she's a "Russian standards" junkie as you put it, but not an actual junkie.


Would you class her as arrogant, stupid, narcissistic and convicted drug smuggler criminal instead?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Would you class her as arrogant, stupid, narcissistic and convicted drug smuggler criminal instead?


Sure.  Anyone to bring in any amount of drugs into Russia is an idiot, I've been saying as much from the start.  But she's not a junkie.


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## Xzi (Dec 10, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I love how Americans think only their culture matters, and the rest is just propaganda.


Almost like invading a neighboring country unprovoked after insisting for months that it wouldn't happen reduces your international credibility to zero, or something.  Shocker.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Sure.  Anyone to bring in any amount of drugs into Russia is an idiot, I've been saying as much from the start.  But she's not a junkie.


Yep I agree, she's a total mong. That's why putin is laughing that he got to swap such a pathetic wretch for a high value prisoner.


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## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> So you think while she was in prison over there without any weed, she was balled up, in a cold sweat, shivering and vomiting because she hasn't had her fix?



Nope.  But I'm sure when she got back home she was excited to go back to it.  By American standards, she'd probably be an enthusiast.  But willing to break the law for something that is "trivial" indicates something more than that.

I think people can be addicted to things mentally, and therefore, physically.  Just because the subject itself isn't considered "addictive", some people are capable of doing some bad things for their obsessions.  She was disrespectful, but she wasn't malicious, and I wouldn't necessarily conclude she has an obsession for THC.  She may have forgot she had it, but I doubt it.  

I don't call people junkies, but I understand that many cultures do and they have different thresholds.


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## mrdude (Dec 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Almost like invading a neighboring country unprovoked after insisting for months that it wouldn't happen reduces your international credibility to zero or something.  Shocker.


Are we talking the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq here - or Syria, "insert country here", etc.


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## MikaDubbz (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Yep I agree, she's a total mong. That's why putin is laughing that he got to swap such a pathetic wretch for a high value prisoner.


Pretty pathetic that they still have to add the extra propaganda to that point though. Like if I were a Russian living in Russia, that headline would just make me think all the less of my government, though I'm sure they're pretty used to the amount of propaganda over there as it is.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 10, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Almost like invading a neighboring country unprovoked after insisting for months that it wouldn't happen reduces your international credibility to zero, or something. Shocker.



I love how self-unaware you are.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 10, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Are we talking the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq here - or Syria, "insert country here", etc.


The credibility of GWB and the Republican party was zero even before the invasions, as far as I'm concerned.  Anybody currently cheerleading for Putin after the tens of thousands of war crimes he's committed in Ukraine: also zero credibility (or morality).


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Like if I were a Russian living in Russia, that headline would just make me think all the less of my government



Here's the thing though.  You are an American pretending to empathize with Russians.  I can tell you, in Japan, that even though the Government has harsh stance and messaging about controlled substances, most people would still fault the person doing the drugs than they would of government "propaganda".  From the outside, it may look oppressive, but from the inside, it looks like what the people want.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Here's the thing though.  You are an American pretending to empathize with Russians.  I can tell you, in Japan, that even though the Government has harsh stance and messaging about controlled substances, most people would still fault the person doing the drugs than they would of government "propaganda".  From the outside, it may look oppressive, but from the inside, it looks like what the people want.


Well when I read propaganda in our headlines in America, it makes me think less of our Government.  So I'm not pretending, I'm completely relating lol.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> From the outside, it may look oppressive, but from the inside, it looks like what the people want.


If this was true, tens of thousands wouldn't have fled the country following the announcement of mobilization.  Russia hasn't held a legitimate election since Putin seized power, so it's impossible to gauge what the people there actually want.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Well when I read propaganda in our headlines in America, it makes me think less of our Government.  So I'm not pretending, I'm completely relating lol.



When was the last time you had any relationship with Russian citizens?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> When was the last time you had any relationship with Russian citizens?


My boss when I worked at Verizon had lived for 2 years in Russia actually, met his wife there.  He definitely had drank the Russia Kool-Aid, was always singing praises of Putin, even though he was actually arrested by the police and they planted a small amount of weed on him, and he had to call his dad in America to pay essentially blackmail of I believe $10K, or else he was gonna get locked up pretty much for life.  Yeah, I didn't mention it earlier, but this whole situation is familiar to something a person I knew actually went through.


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## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> My boss when I worked at Verizon had lived for 2 years in Russia actually, met his wife there.  He definitely had drank the Russia Kool-Aid, was always singing praises of Putin, even though he was actually arrested by the police and they planted a small amount of weed on him, and he had to call his dad in America to pay essentially blackmail of I believe $10K, or else he was gonna get locked up pretty much for life.  Yeah, I didn't mention it earlier, but this whole situation is familiar to something a person I knew actually went through.



Lol.  Even if you feel bad for him, would you call that empathizing?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  Even if you feel bad for him, would you call that empathizing?


He was actually a pretty good friend, I'm happy he met his wife there, and it sucks that he went through what he did and his family was essentially robbed of $10k.  Yeah I definitely feel for him, I don't wish for anyone to be set up like that, that would suck.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> He was actually a pretty good friend, I'm happy he met his wife there, and it sucks that he went through what he did and his family was essentially robbed of $10k.  Yeah I definitely feel for him, I don't wish for anyone to be set up like that, that would suck.



I find it kind of admirable that he still had love for his *adopted country despite his experience.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I find it kind of admirable that he still had love for his country despite his experience.


Yeah I was never sure what to make of that.  Kinda felt like he was a bit brainwashed in some regards.  But the fact that he somehow looked past the country that set him up to potentially go to prison for life, definitely says _something_.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yeah I was never sure what to make of that.  Kinda felt like he was a bit brainwashed in some regards.  But the fact that he somehow looked past the country that set him up to potentially go to prison for life, definitely says _something_.



Maybe he found it endearing, like the country loved him so much that they tried to keep him.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Maybe he found it endearing, like the country loved him so much that they tried to keep him.


Honestly, knowing him as well as I did, I think he just kinda gives all credit to the country for finding the love of his life, and just brushed everything else aside.  I mean if I went to North Korea and found my soulmate, I might be so blinded to say that North Korea is a wonderful country lol.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Honestly, knowing him as well as I did, I think he just kinda gives all credit to the country for finding the love of his life, and just brushed everything else aside.  I mean if I went to North Korea and found my soulmate, I might be so blinded to say that North Korea is a wonderful country lol.


Generally people don't blame the entire country when they have a run-in with corrupt law enforcement.  Plenty of that to go around in the US as well.  The only difference in the Griner case being that Russia was looking for a political prisoner as leverage during wartime.  She shouldn't have given them any excuse to detain her, but even if she hadn't there's a reasonable chance they would've simply made one up instead.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 11, 2022)

The ones that are mad about this, I wonder if they or someone they love was saved, would they still be calling this a bad deal?


tabzer said:


> I love how Americans think only their culture matters, and the rest is just propaganda.


Isn't that what America First is about?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Isn't that what America First is about?



My impression was that that "America First" perpetuated the idea that nationalism is a duty of the country, and that the primary role of America was not to tell other countries that their culture is wrong.  I get that you are trying to be witty, but it appears that you are supporting a more aggressive interventionist policy.


----------



## anhminh (Dec 11, 2022)

Well, American can't just keep their big purchaser in jail forever.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> None of this matters to what I've been debating.  I love how people want me to argue about other aspects, when all I want to address is the fact that she is not a junkie by any definition and for Russia to be declaring her as such, is propaganda.


Because the aspect you are debating is the least important aspect of the story meant to distract from the more important parts of the story. Like the part that Russia offered to trade the Marine also, but Biden declined and the fact that Biden gave up a high value prisoner capable of killing US service members in the thousands for a basketball player who plays for a league nobody watches. You are right though, them calling her a junkie is propaganda. So why are you focusing on the propaganda instead of the real story? I'll spell it out again:

Understanding > reacting

We have all been taught to react to stories instead of actually understanding them. It's a hard habit for me too, so I get it.


----------



## TimPV3 (Dec 11, 2022)

Not sure why you put "junkie" instead of "2 Time Olympic Gold Medalist"


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## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

TimPV3 said:


> Not sure why you put "junkie" instead of "2 Time Olympic Gold Medalist"



They didn't jail her for being a 2 time olympic gold medalist.  Or maybe they did?  Who knows...

Besides, if they exchanged for the soldier, it might appear like they support whistleblowing.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

TimPV3 said:


> Not sure why you put "junkie" instead of "2 Time Olympic Gold Medalist"


The point of calling her a junkie is to dehumanize her and make it easier to condone her injustice. Same reason he made it a point to point out that she's black.


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## Jayro (Dec 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I don't really care what you think about Russian TV, what I do care about is the image the USA is giving out to other countries, and it's not good. In the last few years USA has looked weak and pathetic and this is just another one of those many things that has happened in the last few years that is making the USA look like the laughing stock of the world just now.
> 
> Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2022
> 
> ...


You're pathetic, and have a twisted view of reality. I wish you'd just leave the forums, it's disgusting how toxic you are as a person.


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## mrdude (Dec 11, 2022)

Jayro said:


> You're pathetic, and have a twisted view of reality. I wish you'd just leave the forums, it's disgusting how toxic you are as a person.


I don't bow to cancel culture - and if you don't like what I post, don't read my posts. You have an ignore button for a reason. Now I suggest you grow up and start acting like an adult as you sound like a whiney wench!


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## Jayro (Dec 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I don't bow to cancel culture - and if you don't like what I post, don't read my posts. You have an ignore button for a reason. Now I suggest you grow up and start acting like an adult as you sound like a whiney wench!


I rest my case, LOL. You're disgusting.


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## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> The point of calling her a junkie is to dehumanize her and make it easier to condone her injustice. Same reason he made it a point to point out that she's black.



The point of calling her a junkie was, yes, to somewhat dehumanize her--but also to draw attention to her crime.  I am curious by what motivation you call it "injustice".  It's a law, and something she should have respected.  

The reason they pointed out she was black was not to dehumanize her.  I'm calling foul on that, lol.  It was to draw attention that the act of choosing her may have been affirmative action.


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## H1B1Esquire (Dec 11, 2022)

Politics section is a place where a lot of differing opinions are raised. *You may not like what you read here but it is someone's opinion. As long as the debate is respectful *you are free to debate freely. Also, the views and opinions expressed by forum members may not necessarily reflect those of GBAtemp. 
We should hold ourselves to a higher standard--we all have differing opinions, but ultimately, if you're not able to effectively communicate your idea, hang it up.

Nobody.gives.a.fuck.
If you can change the situation, do it.
If not, you're as worthless as your ideas and ambitions to have actual change.

The truth of this: its all about money, and that's as American as hot dogs and apple pie.
If you think you need proof: watch how many people end up going to WNBA games in 2023.




mrdude said:


> She is still a convcited drug smuggler and will be carrying that around with her for the rest of her life now. I have zero time for druggies


TBF, you should state "Illegal drugs" or "(ab)users of (Il)legal drugs", because you seem to hate: coffee drinkers, cigarette smokers, Viagra users, Taylor Swift fans who have too much dopamine/oxytocin, Trans ____ who have HRT, and I guess the cancer children at Shriners Hospital.

Although....I guess they could be picky about how they feel about drugs, too.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> The point of calling her a junkie was, yes, to somewhat dehumanize her--but also to draw attention to her crime.  I am curious by what motivation you call it "injustice".  It's a law, and something she should have respected.
> 
> The reason they pointed out she was black was not to dehumanize her.  I'm calling foul on that, lol.  It was to draw attention that the act of choosing her may have been affirmative action.


Do you think all laws are just? How about serving a decade for a barely measurable amount of a non-harmful substance? Thats why you have to label her a junky, because you guys know she didn't do anything to justify that punishment.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Do you think all laws are just? How about serving a decade for a barely measurable amount of a non-harmful substance? Thats why you have to label her a junky, because you guys know she didn't do anything justify to that punishment.



I don't think all laws are just.  And again, I'm not calling her a junkie.  Please pay more attention when you read me.

I think it's a little strange that you call this the injustice.  If you are advocating for Russians, that would be one thing, but you are advocating someone who willingly went into this "land of injustice", broke the law of the land, and got treated like a normal person, as injustice.  Can you follow?  Maybe she even got treated better than a "normal person".  If you are asking if driving off a cliff warrants falling off of the cliff, then yes.

Also, I want to know why you think being black is dehumanizing.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> My impression was that that "America First" perpetuated the idea that nationalism is a duty of the country, and that the primary role of America was not to tell other countries that their culture is wrong.  I get that you are trying to be witty, but it appears that you are supporting a more aggressive interventionist policy.


Except it used to say other people's culture in their own country is wrong and suddenly not "America First", if it means justifying or distracting from everything Russia is doing.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I don't think all laws are just.  And again, I'm not calling her a junkie.  Please pay more attention when you read me.
> 
> I think it's a little strange that you call this the injustice.  If you are advocating for Russians, that would be one thing, but you are advocating someone who willingly went into this "land of injustice", broke the law of the land, and got treated like a normal person, as injustice.  Can you follow?  Maybe she even got treated better than a "normal person".  If you are asking if driving off a cliff warrants falling off of the cliff, then yes.


Except she didn't get treated like a normal person, did she?








tabzer said:


> Also, I want to know why you think being black is dehumanizing.


Nice try


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> Except it used to say other people's culture in their own country is wrong



Is it?  Do you have an example?



WeedZ said:


> Except she didn't get treated like a normal person, did she?



Didn't see smuggling there.



WeedZ said:


> Nice try



You are the one that suggested that the reason she was called black was to dehumanize her, and not for the reason that is obvious.  Either cough off that *oops* or don't.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 11, 2022)

So.... we traded someone who smoked a joint for a arms dealer...... sounds like a shit trade


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are the one that suggested that the reason she was called black was to dehumanize her, and not for the reason that is obvious.  Either cough off that *oops* or don't.


He said she didn't deserve to be freed because she's a "black junkie woman". Any logical person would infer his racism. But seeing the mental gymnastics youre jumping through in this thread, im not surprised you got it backwards.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> So.... we traded someone who smoked a joint for a arms dealer...... sounds like a shit trade


We traded an arms dealer for a innocent american prisoner of war


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> He said she didn't deserve to be freed because she's a "black junkie woman". Any logical person would infer his racism. But seeing the mental gymnastics youre jumping through in this thread, im not surprised you got it backwards.



He assumes that those are facts, and while she being black and a woman still remain definitive facts (maybe), the major disagreement is over what qualifies as a "junkie".  Contextually speaking, the problem is about the idea of pushing wokeism to the extent of abandoning the country, so the idea of inferring racism is rooted in affirmative action.  Nobody believes that this person doesn't deserve justice because she is black, a woman... or even a junkie.  _Inferring_ that this trade is undoing injustice somehow is impalpable.

Your idea of "innocence" seems to apply to Americans being "persecuted" in countries, that they should have the right to do as they please, anywhere.  Subtle imperialism on your part.  But you have years of brainwashing to be undone, so I don't fault you.

If you honestly have a problem with the logic I engage, please point it out directly, and specifically.  I'd be more than happy to clear up any misconceptions you have.


----------



## Valwinz (Dec 11, 2022)

the guy is gonna help in the murder of Ukrainians well done Biden you clown that trade was not worth it


----------



## KitChan (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> We traded an arms dealer for a innocent american prisoner of war


The prisoner of war is the guy they didn't free.

She was a prisoner of her own stupidity.


----------



## Hanafuda (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> We traded an arms dealer for a innocent american prisoner of war



She pleaded guilty to multiple criminal offenses under Russian law, so I guess youre relying on a nuanced definition of "innocent." It doesn't really matter what anyone's personal opinion of their laws may be, what she did was a crime there. And she admitted to it.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Dec 11, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> worth it


Yes--where do you think money for Ukraine comes from?
All that WNBA merch is seriously taxable.

To add spices, the US probably has parabolic mics on Viktor B. 24/7

P.W. deserves to get out, yes, but *the geo-political struggle is real.*..so real, Putin may try to make the U.S. trade other people for other people from other places, i.e. trade a European dude for an American, to trade that European for a Russian to trade for an American.

Also, let's not forget PW is accused of espionage--something neither America or Russia take lightly...or anyone, anywhere, at any time period, unless you want to be a 



Spoiler: tiny











dick and miss the hole.


What won't be a deal: when we two-for-one.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

@WeedZ, instead of coming out of the woodwork to defend this person of privilege, can you petition my government on their injustice towards me?  I want to smoke weed, legally.

Also, would your obsession with weed to the point of compromising your logical faculties deem you a "junkie"?   If you aren't black or a woman, then it might be more forgivable, as you suggest. 


It's obvious that you look like a tool at this point, but I just wanted to apply some salt.


----------



## Viri (Dec 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> The credibility of GWB and the Republican party was zero even before the invasions


It's pretty irrelevant who is in charge of the US in the eyes of the people in the middle east. The only thing they see is America destroying their homeland(Afghanistan), and then fleeing from a militant group after being there for 10 or so years. And then leaving said militant group a bunch of equipment to oppress them even more.


If I lived in the middle east, I'd fucking hate America. After what happened to the translators in Afghanistan, I'd never help out any American military.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> @WeedZ, instead of coming out of the woodwork to defend this person of privilege, can you petition my government on their injustice towards me?  I want to smoke weed, legally.
> 
> Also, would your obsession with weed to the point of compromising your logical faculties deem you a "junkie"?   If you aren't black or a woman, then it might be more forgivable, as you suggest.
> 
> ...


Youre not applying salt, its irony. One of us is definitely a tool. I'm not one to clamber for fake internet points, but in this case I think the comparison of my post's reactions to your lack of any might be the anchor in reality you need to break your delusion. You've obviously confused being articulate with being intelligent.

But you have one thing right. Though I dont personally use marijuana (but I can see how my username recycled from my childhood nickname might confuse you), I do advocate for the legalization of marijuana. Its an infringement on personal freedom. Something the people of my country value. Like liberating their countrymen from tyrannical superpowers.

Just like how your country historically values supporting tyrannical superpowers.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Youre not applying salt, its irony. One of us is definitely a tool. I'm not one to clamber for fake internet points, but in this case I think the comparison of my post's reactions to your lack of any might be the anchor in reality you need to break your delusion. You've obviously confused being articulate with being intelligent.
> 
> But you have one thing right. Though I dont personally use marijuana (but I can see how my username recycled from my childhood nickname might confuse you), I do advocate for the legalization of marijuana. Its an infringement on personal freedom. Something the people of my country value. Like liberating their countrymen from tyrannical superpowers.
> 
> Just like how your country historically values supporting tyrannical superpowers.


I know that sounded cool in your head, but what was missing was an actual rebuttal.  You don't need to actively be using marijuana for your obsession of it to compromise your intellect.

Good for you to look beyond the who of your "internet points".


----------



## Jayro (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I know that sounded cool in your head, but what was missing was an actual rebuttal.  You don't need to actively be using marijuana for your obsession of it to compromise your intellect.
> 
> Good for you to look beyond the who of your "internet points".


It sounds like you've never smoked weed in your life, because you're spouting baseless assumptions about things.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

Jayro said:


> It sounds like you've never smoked weed in your life, because you're spouting baseless assumptions about things.


Cite the assumption that you think you saw, because it sounds like you are high right now.


----------



## KitChan (Dec 11, 2022)

Viri said:


> It's pretty irrelevant who is in charge of the US in the eyes of the people in the middle east. The only thing they see is America destroying their homeland(Afghanistan), and then fleeing from a militant group after being there for 10 or so years. And then leaving said militant group a bunch of equipment to oppress them even more.
> 
> 
> If I lived in the middle east, I'd fucking hate America. After what happened to the translators in Afghanistan, I'd never help out any American military.


I think both Biden and Trump are to blame.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I know that sounded cool in your head, but what was missing was an actual rebuttal.  *You don't need to actively be using marijuana for your obsession of it to compromise your intellect.*
> 
> Good for you to look beyond the who of your "internet points".


This part, highlighted in bold for you. Absolutelybonkers bullshit.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

Jayro said:


> This part, highlighted in bold for you. Absolutelybonkers bullshit.



So you think that if I smoked marijuana, it would change the facts behind what I said?

Let me say it again.

You don't need to actively be using marijuana for your obsession of it to compromise your intellect.

That's a fact, and you can replace "marijuana" with anything and it would still be true.

Thanks for being an exhibit of the original statement.



KitChan said:


> I think both Biden and Trump are to blame.



Can't forget Bush and Bush Sr, as well as the other presidents that kept the war money machine well-oiled in the interims.

Don't worry though, you've legalized weed and therefore are not the world's asshole.  (That's for @WeedZ)


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Because the aspect you are debating is the least important aspect of the story meant to distract from the more important parts of the story.


Yes, that's my point entirely, I'm here strictly to call out the BS right in the headline, she's not a junkie no matter how you slice it.  You want to debate other aspects of this? There are plenty of other people here interested to dissect those aspects of this, not me.

You don't get to dictate which parts of a story I can be interested in breaking down or not.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

A lot of "junkies" are apathetic to the fact that their country is driving the world into WW3.  The pots are more important, obviously.  "I can't be a junkie, marijuana isn't addictive bro."  *forgets bills*, *forgets children*, *forgets they voted for this*

Yeah, it definitely is a problem if you think the taboo associated with marijuana is what is pressing.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> A lot of "junkies" are apathetic to the fact that their country is driving the world into WW3.  The pots are more important, obviously.  "I can't be a junkie, marijuana isn't addictive bro."  **forgets bills*, *forgets children**


Classic Marijuana junkies, they're always doing that!


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Classic Marijuana junkies, they're always doing that!


Dude, where's my car?


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Dude, where's my car?


You ever seen that movie?  They were hungover, the reason they can't remember where they parked is because they drank too much.  Also great call using a movie to back up the idea of what a 'marijuana junkie' is.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> You ever seen that movie?  They were hungover, the reason they can't remember where they parked is because they drank too much.  Also great call using a movie to back up the idea of what a 'marijuana junkie' is.


Kelso is a stoner.  Don't lie to me.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Kelso is a stoner.  Don't lie to me.


Yes, all the kids in that '70s show were stoners, none of them were junkies though.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yes, all the kids in that '70s show were stoners, none of them were junkies though.


I'd argue it is because they were dependents.  Not because they were voting for the war machine just to secure marijuana rights.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'd argue it is because they were dependents.  Not because they were voting for the war machine just to secure marijuana rights.


Hell, if Russia were calling Brittney a stoner instead of a junkie, I probably wouldn't have even posted in here to begin with. I can't even say definitively if she is a stoner, but that's more than feasible with someone foolish enough to try and sneak any amount of weed into a country like Russia, and as such I wouldn't really feel much a desire to debate against that label.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Hell, if Russia were calling Brittney a stoner instead of a junkie, I probably wouldn't have even posted in here to begin with. I can't even say definitively if she is a stoner, but that's more than feasible with someone foolish enough to try and sneak any amount of weed into a country like Russia, and as such I wouldn't really feel much a desire to debate against that label.


I, too, would prefer it if the whole world was on the same page.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I, too, would prefer it if the whole world was on the same page.


Would be nice, but it is what it is.  Russia wants to make their win in this case seem all the bigger than it already is, so America got a junkie out of the deal, not a 2-time gold medal winning Olympian possible stoner.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

Viri said:


> It's pretty irrelevant who is in charge of the US in the eyes of the people in the middle east. The only thing they see is America destroying their homeland(Afghanistan), and then fleeing from a militant group after being there for 10 or so years. And then leaving said militant group a bunch of equipment to oppress them even more.
> 
> 
> If I lived in the middle east, I'd fucking hate America. After what happened to the translators in Afghanistan, I'd never help out any American military.


True, and it's all the more reason nobody should ever be in favor of imperialism.  Conservatives seem to be under the false impression that supporting Putin somehow harms Biden, rather than simply making themselves and their party look like sociopaths consistently on the wrong side of history.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Would be nice, but it is what it is.  Russia wants to make their win in this case seem all the bigger than it already is, so America got a junkie out of the deal, not a 2-time gold medal winning Olympian possible stoner.


I mean, yeah, any news that you see was somehow cultivated and sponsored so that it would reach you somehow.  Everything is propagandic.  My takeaway is that some pretentious American thought her rights extend into other countries, and she was proven correct.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I mean, yeah, any news that you see was somehow cultivated and sponsored so that it would reach you somehow.  Everything is propagandic.  My takeaway is that some pretentious American thought her rights extend into other countries, and she was proven correct.


Yes indeed, and that has been my point from the start, for Russia to be calling her a junkie is indeed propaganda.  I'm frustrated that it took us so long to get on the same page on the thought, but I'm glad we're finally here haha.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yes indeed, and that has been my point from the start, for Russia to be calling her a junkie is indeed propaganda.  I'm frustrated that it took us so long to get on the same page on the thought, but I'm glad we're finally here haha.



You may not relate, and that's fine, but see both sides.  There is a point where she fed the self-fulfillment prophecy of becoming a junkie.

She literally jeopardized her career and her life over a small amount of drugs.  Before American intervention, "jeopardized" would be closer to "sacrificed".


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> There is a point where she fed the self-fulfillment prophecy of becoming a junkie.


What a load of horse-shit.  She'd be a self-fulfilling junkie if she actually became a junkie.  Again, were she to lose everything over night, she's not about to such dicks in a back alley for a fix, she's not going to rob her neighbors and sell that shit to a pawn shop for her next fix.  If she goes a week, a month, or even a year without weed, she wont be balled up in a corner, drenched in a cold sweat, hugging her bucket of vomit.

Now when I see any of that shit happen with her, then I'll concede that she is a real junkie, but she's not, and she's not this silly notion of a 'self-fulfillment prophecy of becoming a junkie.'


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> What a load of horse-shit.  She'd be a self-fulfilling junkie if she actually became a junkie.  Again, were she to lose everything over night, she's not about to such dicks in a back alley for a fix, she's not going to rob her neighbors and sell that shit to a pawn shop for her next fix.  If she goes a week, a month, or even a year without weed, she wont be balled up in a corner, drenched in a cold sweat, hugging her bucket of vomit.
> 
> Now when I see any of that shit happen with her, then I'll concede that she is a real junkie, but she's not, and she's not this silly notion of a 'self-fulfillment prophecy of becoming a junkie.'


Well, putting yourself in prison for how many years is the equivalent of sucking dick in an alley?

Maybe she didn't think she was really risking anything.  But she did give a lot more than you or I would, for that hit.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Well, putting yourself in prison for how many years is the equivalent of sucking dick in an alley?
> 
> Maybe she didn't think she was really risking anything.  But she did give a lot more than you or I would, for that hit.


I wouldn't put it past her to just be a cocky idiot that didn't think she would be caught.  That does not automatically make her a junkie.   Furthermore, I think about my buddy's story I mentioned earlier, and from the very start I have questioned if she even had any actually on her person at all and they didn't instead just plant it there.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I wouldn't put it past her to just be a cocky idiot that didn't think she would be caught.  That does not automatically make her a junkie.   Furthermore, I think about my buddy's story I mentioned earlier, and from the very start I have questioned if she even had any actually on her person at all and they didn't instead just plant it there.



It's even possible that America and Russia are working together.  Who knows?  

For some cultures, the result is more important than the intent, so putting yourself in prison for a hit would qualify as being a junkie.  If they believe that, it doesn't make it propaganda.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's even possible that America and Russia are working together.  Who knows?


Could be, but not really the aspect I'm here to dissect.  Just the propaganda in the headline.


tabzer said:


> For some cultures, the result is more important than the intent, so putting yourself in prison for a hit would qualify as being a junkie.  If they believe that, it doesn't make it propaganda.


Yes, that's definitely propaganda, that's adhering to a government's definition of a word, and not what the word actually means.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Could be, but not really the aspect I'm here to dissect.  Just the propaganda in the headline.
> 
> Yes, that's definitely propaganda, that's adhering to a government's definition of a word, and not what the word actually means.



What came first, the government or a culture?

It's only propaganda because you don't share the same values.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What came first, the government or a culture?
> 
> It's only propaganda because you don't share the same values.


No, it's propaganda because of what I explained earlier: 

Yes drugs can be bad, and yes you can get addicted to them, but what makes a junkie a junkie is not dictated by the government, it's dictated by the body with the addiction.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> No, it's propaganda because of what I explained earlier:
> 
> Yes drugs can be bad, and yes you can get addicted to them, but what makes a junkie a junkie is not dictated by the government, it's dictated by the body with the addiction.



And the body "that's not addicted" chose 5+ years in jail for a hit


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> And the body "that's not addicted" chose 5+ years in jail for a hit


Yeah, and plenty of people have gone to prison for small amounts of weed in America too for absurd amounts of time, doesn't make all of them automatic junkies either.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yeah, and plenty of people have gone to prison for small amounts of weed in America too for absurd amounts of time, doesn't make all of them automatic junkies either.


Not to you, maybe.

To Russians who view drug use (controlled substance), to any extent, as "junkie behavior", you'd find disagreement.

You seem to have a problem with the fact that other cultures exist.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Not to you, maybe.
> 
> To Russians who view drug use (controlled substance), to any extent, as "junkie behavior", you'd find disagreement.
> 
> You seem to have a problem with the fact that other cultures exist.



This whole 'to you' or by 'russian standards' thing you do, is just another word for propaganda, its funny that you can't recognize that.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Dude, where's my car?


I sold it for a few new parts


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> This whole 'to you' or by 'russian standards' thing you do, is just another word for propaganda, its funny that you can't recognize that.



Is it okay that I rest my case that you think other cultures are propaganda?


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> And the body "that's not addicted" chose 5+ years in jail for a hit


Which is like being sentenced for murder after being found guilty of jaywalking.  It's typically 15 days in jail by Russian law, when the Kremlin isn't in need of a political prisoner anyway.



tabzer said:


> Not to you, maybe.
> 
> To Russians who view drug use (controlled substance), to any extent, as "junkie behavior", you'd find disagreement.
> 
> You seem to have a problem with the fact that other cultures exist.


I can 100% guarantee you that Russians don't call stoners "junkies."  The people addicted to harder drugs fit that bill much better no matter where you are in the world.  This isn't their "culture," it's just you being pedantic and desperate to get the last word in.  Only state-sponsored media benefits from trying to weave this kind of ridiculous narrative, and that's why it's propaganda.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Is it okay that I rest my case that you think other cultures are propaganda?


You can rest your case however wrongly you want.  What you want to attribute as just how other cultures view drugs, is just another word for propaganda by that country. She's not a real junkie, I know that, and I know you know that too, pretty sure the Russian government actually knows as much as well.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> It's typically 15 days in jail by Russian law, when the Kremlin isn't in need of a political prisoner anyway.



15 days for murder?



Xzi said:


> I can 100% guarantee you that Russians don't call stoners "junkies


What do Russians call people who are willing to risk jail time for their proclivities?



MikaDubbz said:


> You can rest your case however wrongly you want.  What you want to attribute as just how other cultures view drugs, is just another word for propaganda by that country. She's not a real junkie, I know that, and I know you know that too, pretty sure the Russian government actually knows as much as well.



I mean, I see where you are coming from, and I do really wish that Russia would also see it that way, but I cannot believe that they do.



Xzi said:


> The people addicted to harder drugs fit that bill much better no matter where you are in the world.



How much of the world have you traveled?  I can tell you that you are already wrong, based on Japan's approach to the subject.  In some countries, defying your government isn't automatically admirable; it's a symptom of something wrong with you.  In some places, defying your government and entertaining a controlled substance automatically puts you into "junkie" territory.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I mean, I see where you are coming from, and I do really wish that Russia would also see it that way, but I cannot believe that they do.


If my government declared me a murderer because I smoked a small amount of weed, that does not automatically make me a murderer, and others from other countries shouldn't look at that instance and say, 'well that's just the culture,' we may not see it that way, but they smoked weed so by 'America standards' they're a murderer; no it's just pure bullshit and we can all recognize that for what it is and call it out if we want whether we're from that country or not.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> If my government declared me a murderer because I smoked a small amount of weed, that does not automatically make me a murderer, and others from other countries shouldn't look at that instance and say, 'well that's just the culture,' we may not see it that way, but they smoked weed so by 'America standards' they're a murderer; no it's just pure bullshit and we can all recognize that for what it is and call it out if we want whether we're from that country or not.


You are asking me to compare a world that doesn't exist to a world that does.  If the world that you suggested could exist, did, then it would change the logic of everything else.  There is no possible way to determine the veracity of your proposal.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> 15 days for murder?


Possession of marijuana.



tabzer said:


> What do Russians call people who are willing to risk jail time for their proclivities?


I'd assume they have a word that closely enough translates to "stoner" or "reefer."  And clearly they don't live in fear of their government if they're willing to keep the habit going.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are asking me to compare a world that doesn't exist to a world that does.  If the world that you suggested could exist, did, then it would change the logic of everything else.  There is no possible way to determine the veracity of your proposal.


I'm only taking your reasoning to an extreme to point out how inherently flawed it is.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

Xzi said:


> Possession of marijuana.
> 
> 
> I'd assume they have a word that closely enough translates to "stoner" or "reefer."  And clearly they don't live in fear of their government if they're willing to keep the habit going.


Okay, you are assuming for the benefit of your doubt.  Not surprising, really.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Okay, you are assuming for the benefit of your doubt.  Not surprising, really.


Drugs are the same the entire world over, bud.  Nobody with an ounce of life experience is worried about getting robbed and stabbed by a stoner like they are with a tweaker.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 11, 2022)

This is the worst of social media in one thread.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm only taking your reasoning to an extreme to point out how inherently flawed it is.


If it was flawed, you'd be able to point it out without the use of fantasy.

America and Russia are at odds with each other for the same reason that their cultures are very different.  You want to pretend that there is an objective culture and Russia is defying it.



Xzi said:


> Drugs are the same the entire world over, bud. Nobody with an ounce of life experience is worried about getting robbed and stabbed by a stoner like they are with a tweaker.



Incorrect.  Thanks for proving to me, again, that you are uncultured.


----------



## kevin corms (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> No, it's propaganda because of what I explained earlier:
> 
> Yes drugs can be bad, and yes you can get addicted to them, but what makes a junkie a junkie is not dictated by the government, it's dictated by the body with the addiction.


I don't think you guys even know what propaganda is, it doesn't have to be false information.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

kevin corms said:


> I dont think you guys even know what propaganda is.


This article was done to make it seem like Russia got the best deal ever while all America got was garbage.  Calling her a junkie in this regard when she very clearly isn't in any real sense of the word, is nothing but propaganda.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2022



tabzer said:


> If it was flawed, you'd be able to point it out without the use of fantasy.


Bro I did point it out, and now you're trying to weasel out of the corner you've found yourself in. Face it, your reasoning is absolute garbage as to why calling her a junkie is not propaganda.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> This article was done to make it seem like Russia got the best deal ever while all America got was garbage.  Calling her a junkie in this regard when she very clearly isn't in any real sense of the word, is nothing but propaganda.



You are propaganda.  Sucks, but you measured the mete.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> This article was done to make it seem like Russia got the best deal ever while all America got was garbage.  Calling her a junkie in this regard when she very clearly isn't in any real sense of the word, is nothing but propaganda.


Literally anything from Russian media is propaganda, it's all entirely state sponsored and controlled.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are propaganda.  Sucks, but you measured the mete.


Whether I'm propaganda or not is irrelevant to the question of if the Russian media calling Brittney a junkie is propaganda.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Whether I'm propaganda or not is irrelevant to the question of if the Russian media calling Brittney a junkie is propaganda.



Lol.  I mean, if you recognize that you are a tool, that's cool, I guess.  I wouldn't call it irrelevant though.  If you are propaganda and proposing the question of Brittney being a junkie, it would make everything you have to offer here complete shit, no?



Xzi said:


> Literally anything from Russian media is propaganda, it's all entirely state sponsored and controlled.



Go back to twitter.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  I mean, if you recognize that you are a tool, that's cool, I guess.  I wouldn't call it irrelevant though.  If you are propaganda and proposing the question that Brittney is a junkie, it would make everything you have to offer her complete shit, no?


I'm not recognizing my self as a tool or not a tool, because it's completely inconsequential to the topic I'm actually discussing.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not recognizing my self as a tool or not a tool, because it's completely inconsequential to the topic I'm actually discussing.


I'm curious if we agree on how to approach "propaganda" and if the label is even necessary, as opposed to being a propagandic device to begin with.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'm curious if we agree on how to approach "propaganda" and if the label is even necessary, as opposed to being a propagandic device to begin with.


I'm not curious about that at all, it's very clearly propaganda as I just explained: This article was done to make it seem like Russia got the best deal ever while all America got was garbage.  There is no mystery at all as to why they've labeled her as a junkie in this regard.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Incorrect. Thanks for proving to me, again, that you are uncultured.


Lmao alright bud, I'll go hang out in a Russian stoner's basement, you go hang out in a crackhouse run by the Russian mafia.  After a week we'll see which one of us still has his kidneys.  _Culture_, he says.



tabzer said:


> Go back to twitter.


Go back to 8chan.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not curious about that at all, it's very clearly propaganda as I just explained: This article was done to make it seem like Russia got the best deal ever while all America got was garbage.  There is no mystery at all as to why they've labeled her as a junkie in this regard.


You are suggesting that it is unnatural for Russia to label her as a junkie, but I simply don't agree.

Just because you are confident doesn't mean I ought to be.



Xzi said:


> Lmao alright bud, I'll go hang out in a Russian stoner's basement, you go hang out in a crackhouse run by the Russian mafia.  After a week we'll see which one of us still has his kidneys.  _Culture_, he says.
> 
> 
> Go back to 8chan.



Yep.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are suggesting that it is unnatural for Russia to label her as a junkie, but I simply don't agree.


Russian state-sponsored media labeled her a junkie.  So unless you're saying MSNBC speaks for you, let's not assume their media speaks for every individual in Russia.  The only person we definitively know it speaks for is Putin.


----------



## Cooler3D (Dec 11, 2022)

I'm from Russia. And I very much regret that, being a citizen, I was not able to prevent the spread of the plague - beyond the borders of the country. I offer my deepest apologies for myself, and for every citizen of my country who has lost his human appearance. Believe me, they lost it not of their own free will, but due to a long and purposeful dehumanization by propaganda. Aggression and xenophobia that you observe in my fellow citizens is not so much their fault as their tragedy, which happened due to the malicious intent of certain individuals. One day, they will sober up, and they will be horrified by the seditiousness of the ignorance in which they were. You can’t tell this from them now, but almost all of them were once simple, honest, sympathetic people, and alas, naive.
I hope that someday we will be able to make amends with the outside world, and wash away the shame that our inaction has led to.
And let my apologies be nothing, but they are sincere, and according to the laws of my country, it can cost me up to 20 years in prison, and yet I had to say it.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I know that sounded cool in your head, but what was missing was an actual rebuttal.  You don't need to actively be using marijuana for your obsession of it to compromise your intellect.
> 
> Good for you to look beyond the who of your "internet points".


First of all, that did sound cool. Second, if you reach any further youre going to fall over. youre absolutely ridiculous. You just keep retroactively modifying your already false syllogism until what you say doesn't even make sense.

(Too much marijuana affects intellect --> weedz is obsessed cause of his nickname --> weedz intellect has been affected)

"I dont use merijuana"

Ok so let's modify that as if it were always my point, let's see..

(Just thinking about marijuana affects intellect --> weedz is arguing with me about marijuana --> weedz is obsessed with mariuana therefor has affected his intellect)

Its like arguing with a toddler.


----------



## Xzi (Dec 11, 2022)

Cooler3D said:


> I'm from Russia. And I very much regret that, being a citizen, I was not able to prevent the spread of the plague - beyond the borders of the country. I offer my deepest apologies for myself, and for every citizen of my country who has lost his human appearance. Believe me, they lost it not of their own free will, but due to a long and purposeful dehumanization by propaganda. Aggression and xenophobia that you observe in my fellow citizens is not so much their fault as their tragedy, which happened due to the malicious intent of certain individuals. One day, they will sober up, and they will be horrified by the seditiousness of the ignorance in which they were. You can’t tell this from them now, but almost all of them were once simple, honest, sympathetic people, and alas, naive.
> I hope that someday we will be able to make amends with the outside world, and wash away the shame that our inaction has led to.
> And let my apologies be nothing, but they are sincere, and according to the laws of my country, it can cost me up to 20 years in prison, and yet I had to say it.


Thank you for this.  Succumbing to propaganda is easy and brings a false sense of security.  Fighting against it is difficult but necessary in order to shed ourselves of oppressive leadership that does not value human life or dignity.


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Dec 11, 2022)

Smoking weed doesn't make you a junkie, fuck-wit.


----------



## KingVamp (Dec 11, 2022)

Don't see it mentioned here. I totally forgot they already saved someone, Trevor Reed.


----------



## AncientBoi (Dec 11, 2022)

[ at Russia for taking back [a newly converted] spy]


----------



## mrdude (Dec 11, 2022)

Jokey_Carrot said:


> Smoking weed doesn't make you a junkie, fuck-wit.


Smuggling drugs through international borders so you can get your next hit rather than waiting until you go back home - that does! It also gets you prison time, or the death sentence in most countries, as this moron found out.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Smuggling drugs through international borders so you can get your next hit rather than waiting until you go back home - that does! It also gets you prison time, or the death sentence in most countries, as this moron found out.


We've already established thats not what happened. You're just going in circles. Next it'll be about if laws are inherently just, then you'll give a wordy speech about integrity, then it'll come back to marijuana causing clouded thinking, which becomes marijuana users are junkies, then round again..


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 11, 2022)

Fat bet this threads gonna be locked soon


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Dec 11, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Smuggling drugs through international borders so you can get your next hit rather than waiting until you go back home - that does! It also gets you prison time, or the death sentence in most countries, as this moron found out.


Junkies do heroin. Ask literally anyone from Glasgow.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 11, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> We've already established thats not what happened.


You might have established that in your head, however in the real world that's what happened.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 11, 2022)

Jokey_Carrot said:


> Junkies do heroin. Ask literally anyone from Glasgow.


You have confused Glasgow with Dundee my friend. Nobody in Glasgow can afford heroin. Trust me I live in Glasgow


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 11, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Yes, that's my point entirely, I'm here strictly to call out the BS right in the headline, she's not a junkie no matter how you slice it.  You want to debate other aspects of this? There are plenty of other people here interested to dissect those aspects of this, not me.
> 
> You don't get to dictate which parts of a story I can be interested in breaking down or not.


I'm not trying to dictate anything to you. Just trying to show you that there are more important things than what Russians call somebody.

It's weird that you are taking it so personally. Is she your girlfriend or something?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> First of all, that did sound cool. Second, if you reach any further youre going to fall over. youre absolutely ridiculous. You just keep retroactively modifying your already false syllogism until what you say doesn't even make sense.



Your prioritization of marijuana over your country's serviceman, international relations, and cultural understanding was established with the first comment you made on this thread.  Sure, being "WeedZ" doesn't help your case, but it's not the point of contention, lol.  You might as well hop off this thread, smoke a bowl, and consider the veracity of what I have been saying.  

People shouting "propaganda" are literally debating the English and the nuances existing in their own culture. 

If you think there has been a shift in my stance, it's probably because you are confusing my point of view with your own.



Xzi said:


> Russian state-sponsored media labeled her a junkie.  So unless you're saying MSNBC speaks for you, let's not assume their media speaks for every individual in Russia.  The only person we definitively know it speaks for is Putin.



I'm saying that MSNBC probably represents a good part of Americans.  If US media and Russia media are comparable on any definite metric, I'd like to know.  Unfortunately the rest of the world's understanding of America stems majorly from likes of CNN (same thing?), so it's probably safe to say that nobody knows wtf is up with America.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 12, 2022)

This meme sums up the situation pretty well.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Your prioritization of marijuana over your country's serviceman, international relations, and cultural understanding was established with the first comment you made on this thread.  Sure, being "WeedZ" doesn't help your case, but it's not the point of contention, lol.  You might as well hop off this thread, smoke a bowl, and consider the veracity of what I have been saying.
> 
> People shouting "propaganda" are literally debating the English and the nuances existing in their own culture.
> 
> ...


Youre the one prioritizing marijuana over servicemen. You think someone who had a vape in their bag should serve a decade in a foreign country simply because its "their law". You know whats more illegal internationally? Espionage, yet you think we should have brought him home instead. So your logic doesn't compute no matter which way you spin it.


----------



## SG854 (Dec 12, 2022)

Laws are meant to be broken. I joke, but somtimes not really.

Some laws are stupid and you shouldn't blindly follow them just because they are the law. People make dumb ass laws all the time.

People that lack critical thinking won't understand this.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 12, 2022)

I knew this was the next step


----------



## jordash25 (Dec 12, 2022)

SG854 said:


> Laws are meant to be broken. I joke, but somtimes not really.
> 
> Some laws are stupid and you shouldn't blindly follow them just because they are the law. People make dumb ass laws all the time.
> 
> People that lack critical thinking won't understand this.


"You're so stupid for obeying the law that you lack critical thinking"


----------



## SG854 (Dec 12, 2022)

jordash25 said:


> "You're so stupid for obeying the law that you lack critical thinking"


You failed to read my comment correctly. It is you that lacks critical thinking.


----------



## jordash25 (Dec 12, 2022)

SG854 said:


> You failed to read my comment correctly. It is you that lacks critical thinking.


"You" deem it a dumb ass law so apparently that's all that matters to "you"


----------



## tabzer (Dec 12, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Youre the one prioritizing marijuana over servicemen. You think someone who had a vape in their bag should serve a decade in a foreign country simply because its "their law".



I do not think that someone should serve a decade in prison and I think even the laws in Japan seem harsh.  To suggest that she is innocent because you support her entering another country and breaking their laws is rooted in imperialism.  She (he?) broke another country's law by her own volition vs the spy who was either framed or in service of his country.  The fact that both Trump administration and Biden administration has little or nothing to say on the matter is troubling.



WeedZ said:


> You know whats more illegal internationally? Espionage, yet you think we should have brought him home instead. So your logic doesn't compute no matter which way you spin it.



This needs to be addressed, because if espionage was being carried at the behest of US government, there'd need to be need accountability for that.  Either the US knows he isn't guilty, and has abandoned him, or they do know he was caught and they do not want to acknowledge it, yet still abandon him.

Considering how much America lies about Russia, it wouldn't be surprising if it is the latter.  I'm slightly amused, yet disappointed, that someone as intelligent as yourself would be willing to forgo all the lies your government is involved in (for the sake of breeding global instability) just to keep the "Russia is evil" dream alive.  Is learning even of interest to you?


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Dec 12, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> You have confused Glasgow with Dundee my friend. Nobody in Glasgow can afford heroin. Trust me I live in Glasgow


It's shite being scottish!


----------



## mrdude (Dec 12, 2022)

Jokey_Carrot said:


> It's shite being scottish!


You do know that you can move to another country, It's not like you are a prisoner and there's border walls surrounding the country keeping you in. If you don't like it - leave! Aeroplanes, cars, trains and boats etc were invented to make it easier to travel.......just saying.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 12, 2022)

mrdude said:


> You do know that you can move to another country, It's not like you are a prisoner and there's border walls surrounding the country keeping you in. If you don't like it - leave! Aeroplanes, cars, trains and boats etc were invented to make it easier to travel.......just saying.


Chill @mrdude it is a line from a very famous Scottish film called Trainspotting. The main character of the film Renton goes on an epic rant about how its shite being Scottish.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 12, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> Chill @mrdude it is a line from a very famous Scottish film called Trainspotting. The main character of the film Renton goes on an epic rant about how its shite being Scottish.



I know what Trainspotting is. I know the line from the film, still if you don't like being Scottish or living in Scotland or anywhere else - stop whining about it and do something about it. Nobody likes listening to a whiney bitch.


----------



## AmandaRose (Dec 12, 2022)

mrdude said:


> I know what Trainspotting is. I know the line from the film, still if you don't like being Scottish or living in Scotland or anywhere else - stop whining about it and do something about it. Nobody likes listening to a whiney bitch.


Nobody has posted a single thing it this thread moaning or whining about being Scottish. You are just trying to start an argument where there isn't one.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 12, 2022)

AmandaRose said:


> Nobody has posted a single thing it this thread moaning or whining about being Scottish. You are just trying to start an argument where there isn't one.


He has no chill, he only has racism


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> He has no chill, he only has racism


Point out a racist post I have made, you can't because that stuff only exists in your head. In my experience the people that go on about racism are the true racists.


----------



## titan_tim (Dec 13, 2022)

I think Russia has enough to worry about within their own country.


----------



## izy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Point out a racist post I have made, you can't because that stuff only exists in your head. In my experience the people that go on about racism are the true racists.


the part where you used race in your rant when it shouldn't matter at all then proceed to be also unhappy about the fact a white male was left
", you traded a black lesbian junkie that hates America, and swapped her for an arms dealer. But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying....."


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

izy said:


> the part where you used race in your rant when it shouldn't matter at all then proceed to be also unhappy about the fact a white male was left
> ", you traded a black lesbian junkie that hates America, and swapped her for an arms dealer. But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying....."


That's what the news article is about, maybe you should watch it. God there's some dumb f*cks in this section.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Point out a racist post I have made, you can't because that stuff only exists in your head. In my experience the people that go on about racism are the true racists.





mrdude said:


> you traded a black lesbian junkie that hates America, and swapped her for an arms dealer. But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying.....


The races of the individuals involved did not need to be brought up, but you felt the need to do so.
You called her a "junkie" over a THC vape pen and then continued dragging her through the mud by saying she "hates America." Doing any research shows that's just propaganda made by Russians and is intended to be a jab at her character
https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-why-brittney-griner-hates-america-trending-all-need-know
You then include their sexualities, which again have nothing to do with this.
Why is this all a problem? Because none of these details are needed and were only included to appeal to racist and homophobic people looking to drag her down. The only people being mocked are people like you who took the bait and showed the world your true colors.


----------



## izy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> That's what the news article is about, maybe you should watch it. God there's some dumb f*cks in this section.


well first things first based on your prejudiced opinions from this thread and lack of quoting it is easily assumable that you said it yourself considering your opinions heavily match the "quote" regardless of watching the video.

quick to call me a dumb fuck, quick to have some very based opinions with little care of others

	Post automatically merged: Dec 13, 2022



The Catboy said:


> The races of the individuals involved did not need to be brought up, but you felt the need to do so.
> You called her a "junkie" over a THC vape pen and then continued dragging her through the mud by saying she "hates America." Doing any research shows that's just propaganda made by Russians and is intended to be a jab at her character
> https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-why-brittney-griner-hates-america-trending-all-need-know
> You then include their sexualities, which again have nothing to do with this.
> Why is this all a problem? Because none of these details are needed and were only included to appeal to racist and homophobic people looking to drag her down. The only people being mocked are people like you who took the bait and showed the world your true colors.


as much as the very minor disdain this catboy gives me for being a catboy lmao their opinion is completely correct and valid


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

izy said:


> as much as the very minor disdain this catboy gives me for being a catboy lmao their opinion is completely correct and valid


If it makes you feel any better, I am actually a demon that looks like a catboy. Do with that information as you will.


----------



## Viri (Dec 13, 2022)

We traded a WNBA player for someone who can actually shoot.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

I do find it rather impressive that people continue to fall for Russian propaganda. Honestly, it's almost always safe to assume any media coming out from Russia is going to be propaganda. Russia has a long history of information warfare and that's something always worth considering when approaching any information, media, and really anything released from Russia to the rest of the world.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I do find it rather impressive that people continue to fall for Russian propaganda. Honestly, it's almost always safe to assume any media coming out from Russia is going to be propaganda. Russia has a long history of information warfare and that's something always worth considering when approaching any information, media, and really anything released from Russia to the rest of the world.


What's that to do with the thread - nothing.

Propoganda comes out of every country - remember the non existent weapons of mass destruction? Also the Trump Russian collusion hoax, etc, etc, etc....... USA and others are constantly pumping out propoganda. So it's literally the same as the pot calling the kettle black.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> What's that to do with the thread - nothing.


Maybe the fact that you opened the thread with such obvious russian propaganda that it almost seemed parody.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> What's that to do with the thread - nothing.


You made a thread that revolves around Russian propaganda, so that has everything to do with the thread.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You made a thread that revolves around Russian propaganda, so that has everything to do with the thread.


It's not propoganda if it's true though, it's just facts. An example of propoganda is the FBI colluding with Twitter and the main stream media to say that Hunter Bidens Laptop was Russian dissinformation - when we all knew that they were trying to gaslight the population.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> It's not propoganda if it's true though, it's just facts. An example of propoganda is the FBI colluding with Twitter and the main stream media to say that Hunter Bidens Laptop was Russian dissinformation - when we all knew that they were trying to gaslight the population.


Is it possible to have a conversation without changing the subject? What is the truth in this that stops it from being propaganda?


----------



## Soraiko (Dec 13, 2022)

sorry to say this....but damn how stupid you have to be to trade a fucking arms dealer with a drug importing weirdo...ok cannabis oil is not the worst.......but still not worth to exchange her for some DANGEROUS ARMS DEALER


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Is it possible to have a conversation without changing the subject? What is the truth in this that stops it from being propaganda?


Here you go I suggest you read this, because this is what most Americans and the rest of the world feel about the propoganda that comes out of the USA and the US media:

https://mronline.org/2022/08/02/pol...dia-after-decades-of-war-propaganda-and-lies/


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Here you go I suggest you read this, because this is what most Americans and the rest of the world feel about the propoganda that comes out of the USA and the US media:
> 
> https://mronline.org/2022/08/02/pol...dia-after-decades-of-war-propaganda-and-lies/


That didn’t answer my questions but ok. So basically it stops being propaganda when it’s something _*you*_ agree with.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That didn’t answer my questions but ok. So basically it stops being propaganda when it’s something _*you*_ agree with.


And yet and I've already given you a reply here:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/usa-rus...ng-home-a-junkie.623007/page-12#post-10023098

It's not my fault your brain can't comprehend that answer.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> And yet and I've already given you a reply here:
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/usa-rus...ng-home-a-junkie.623007/page-12#post-10023098
> 
> It's not my fault your brain can't comprehend that answer.


I am knowledging your answer, which is that it stops being propaganda when it’s something you agree with. To the rest of us living in reality it’s obvious propaganda. Putin was a major figure in the KGB, you literally can’t trust anything that comes out of Russia. Noting her race, sexuality, and dragging her through the mud through this broadcast was deliberately made to appeal to racists, homophobes, and sexist people, it’s bait and propaganda. No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you fell for this.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Noting her race, sexuality, and dragging her through the mud.


Actually that's what the video points out isn't it, Your Government prioritises the following:

Blacks over Whites.
Gays over straight people.
Females over Males.
Drug Smugglers over partriotic Spys.

Your WOKE politicians play identity politics and it's destroying your country, everyone with an ounce of common sense (including most people in USA) can see this. You think it's propoganda when you don't like what other say and you fail to see the hypocrisy and double standards coming out of the USA. I and many others are pointing out your government are becoming the laughing stock of the world and are now see as a bit of a bananna republic to most, you are certainly in no position to lecture others on how they should behave as you don't hold the moral high ground. People have seen through the crap that comes out of the white house nowadays and how you prioritise your people. As far as the world is concerend in USA being a straight white working male puts you at a major disadvantage on lots of fronts. The rest of the world is not like this and we pity those men for having to put up with it. They should never give up their guns, and they should take back control of your country and sling a huge percent of your politicians in prison for their treasonous actions against them.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

We need a remake of "We Didn't Start the Fire", but racism.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> We need a remake of "We Didn't Start the Fire", but racism.


In the last few years it seems that most racism and discrimination in the USA is against white people, especially against straight white males. It started with politicians trying to divide the popultation so they could play divide and conquer and stop people from paying attention to the corruption they were getting up to.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

Listening to Americans decry propaganda as if they wrote the book.    The reason the Russian propaganda works is because of the gems of truth that it contains.  The appearance of choosing affirmative action over loyalty is so easy to frame because very few words are needed to spell it out.  Russia going ham on it is entirely unsurprising.  American propaganda *often works like this: take an inconvenient fact, have someone you don't like say it; voila, no more inconvenient fact.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Listening to Americans decry propaganda as if they wrote the book.    The reason the Russian propaganda works is because of the gems of truth that it contains.  The appearance of choosing affirmative action over loyalty is so easy to frame because very few words are needed to spell it out.  Russia going ham on it is entirely unsurprising.  American propaganda *often works like this: take an inconvenient fact, have someone you don't like say it; voila, no more inconvenient fact.


The reason russian propaganda works so well is that they appeal to racists. Mrdude spelled it out a couple posts back. 

"Surely the only reason they traded to liberate this American citizen that most believe is being unjustly held is because she is a black woman. Look at her, she's such a dangerous drug trafficker with that enormous supply of a harmless drug in that little vape pen. This is obviously a bias against oppressed white men."

Its so stupid. Anyone that believes this is both a racist and projecting their racism. Literally no one else cares about her race or gender. Only that she was serving a decade by an enemy country for a minor crime.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> The reason russian propaganda works so well is that they appeal to racists. Mrdude spelled it out a couple posts back.
> 
> "Surely the only reason they traded to liberate this American citizen that most believe is being unjustly held is because she is a black woman. Look at her, she's such a dangerous drug trafficker with that enormous supply of a harmless drug in that little vape pen. This is obviously a bias against oppressed white men."
> 
> Its so stupid. Anyone that believes this is both a racist and projecting their racism. Literally no one else cares about her race or gender. Only that she was serving a decade by an enemy country for a minor crime.



It's not racist to acknowledge the fact that America practices affirmative action and that it looks like the option they elected for over taking responsibility for and demonstrating loyalty to a service member who pledged their life to serve the country.  

If anything, this does prompt an informative response from the administration.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not racist to acknowledge the fact that America practices affirmative action and that it looks like the option they elected for over taking responsibility for and demonstrating loyalty to a service member who pledged their life to serve the country.
> 
> If anything, this does prompt an informative response from the administration.


Considering trump said that he was presented with a deal to have Paul whelan released during his presidency and actively refused, you think maybe, just maybe, there's a political or national security reason that we don't know about that has prevented his release? Or is trumps administration racially and gender biased as well? I'm interested to see if you try to have it both ways here. How are you going to spin this so that trumps admin was justified but biden's wasnt?


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> this American citizen that most believe is being unjustly held is because she is a black woman.


That's what happens when you break the laws of another country - everyone knows when you smuggle drugs through another country you will be dealt with if caught. You can try and spin this as much as you want, but she's a criminal, she now has a criminal record and she's done jail time in a foreign country for drug smuggling. 
Personally I am happy she was caught and paid for her crimes, I am just a little miffed she didn't spend longer in jail.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> That's what happens when you break the laws of another country - everyone knows when you smuggle drugs through another country you will be dealt with if caught. You can try and spin this as much as you want, but she's a criminal, she now has a criminal record and she's done jail time in a foreign country for drug smuggling.
> Personally I am happy she was caught and paid for her crimes, I am just a little miffed she didn't spend longer in jail.


I've looked and only Americans have served decades or more. Everyone else pays a fine and/or spends a few weeks in jail. So its an unjust imprisonment by their own laws.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> I've looked and only Americans have served decades or more. Everyone else pays a fine and/or spends a few weeks in jail. So its an unjust imprisonment by their own laws.


Well when you are stupid enough to go to another country and especially Russia at a time when there's so much tension between USA/Russia, and then break their laws by smuggling drugs through their border, you should accept the consequences when caught. Only a complete idiot or someone that thought they were above the law would be so stupid to think there wouldn't be any consequences when caught.

Still swapping a druggie instead of a spy for an Arms dealer.......

Mind you the Biden admin has shown how pathetic it is, this is just another thing in a long list of failures and I expect more failures from them worse than this. Luckily the brakes are on that admin now that they are no longer control the house.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Well when you are stupid enough to go to another country and especially Russia at a time when there's so much tension between USA/Russia, and then break their laws by smuggling drugs through their border, you should accept the consequences when caught. Only a complete idiot or someone that thought they were above the law would be so stupid to think there wouldn't be any consequences when caught.
> 
> Still swapping a druggie instead of a spy for an Arms dealer.......
> 
> Mind you the Biden admin has shown how pathetic it is, this is just another thing in a long list of failures and I expect more failures from them worse than this. Luckily the brakes are on that admin now that they are no longer control the house.




let me just recap for a sec for my own clarity here. 

So, you're not racist. 

But dems are racist.

You think this woman should spend more than decades in a Russian prison which is already way more time than anyone else 

and the guy that committed a more serious crime threatening their national security should have been released.

Because she's black and he's white...

Because the dems are racist....

Wtf are you talking about?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> How are you going to spin this so that trumps admin was justified but biden's wasnt?



Maybe read what I say?



tabzer said:


> The fact that both Trump administration and Biden administration has little or nothing to say on the matter is troubling.






WeedZ said:


> Or is trumps administration racially and gender biased as well?



If you are suggesting that he, too, practiced affirmative action over loyalty, share those goods.  Not because it defeats my argument, but because I would find it interesting and maybe diffuse some diehard Trump loyalists.

If you want to know how Trump might have rationalized it, read what he says yourself:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...isoner-swap-for-michigans-whelan/69720831007/

My initial thought was that he could have been trying to be hands off Russia because even when he wasn't interacting with Russia, he was actively being accused of working with Russia; so maybe he had to be hands off.

But he says it's because he doesn't think trading a criminal responsible for many deaths for innocent people is a good deal.



WeedZ said:


> you think maybe, just maybe, there's a political or national security reason that we don't know about that has prevented his release?



Yeah, like admitting that they sent someone to spy on them.  As I already stated.



WeedZ said:


> and the guy that committed a more serious crime threatening their national security should have been released.



You are an idiot if you are going to pretend that he spied on Russia of his own volition.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Maybe read what I say?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So it stands to reason that racial motivation is the least likely factor.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> let me just recap for a sec for my own clarity here.
> 
> So, you're not racist.
> 
> ...


Haha, typical lefty - goes about calling everyone a racist when they  don't like something another person says or posts in the hope of trying to silence them or to divert from the subject being discussed.

I haven't posted anything racist, but you seem to see racism in everything you disagree with.

If you were in a zombie appocalypse - this would be you.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> So it stands to reason that racial motivation is the least likely factor.



It looks like affirmative action was easier than doing the responsible thing.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Haha, typical lefty - goes about calling everyone a racist when they  don't like something another person says or posts in the hope of trying to silence them or to divert from the subject being discussed.
> 
> I haven't posted anything racist, but you seem to see racism in everything you disagree with.
> 
> If you were in a zombie appocalypse - this would be you.



Took you long enough to not even dispute what I said..


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Took you long enough to not even dispute what I said..


Maybe I was busy doing other stuff, did you consider that?


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Maybe I was busy doing other stuff, did you consider that?


Well, whenever you get around to it, im still waiting..


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It looks like affirmative action was easier than doing the responsible thing.


If he was off the table that makes her the only deal. So there is no one to compare her to. Which makes her race irrelevant, no?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> If he was off the table that makes her the only deal. So there is no one to compare her to. Which makes her race irrelevant, no?



He wasn't off the table.  So far, both administrations haven't admitted that or even suggested that it is a matter of national security.  Until those words come out, how things look is the most acceptable.  Are you entertaining a conspiracy theory?

Hiding behind "national security" to rationalize anything is pretty authoritarian btw.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So far, both administrations haven't admitted that or even suggested that it is a matter of national security.  Until those words come out, how things look is the most acceptable.


You just defined prejudice. Thats how it looks to "you". You took incomplete information, filtered through your biases, reinforced by cheap Russian propaganda, and used the word "fact" a couple dozen times in this thread.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> You just defined prejudice. Thats how it looks to "you". You took incomplete information, filtered through your biases, reinforced by cheap Russian propaganda, and used the word "fact" a couple dozen times in this thread.


Do you know what's prejudice? You are, you have shown it over and over in this thread.

Also, you have constantly tried to brush this womens crime off as not really a crime, where's your outrage over all the people in your countries prisons that are in there for possession of cannabis, you do know in USA you can get 5 years in prison for that, yet you seem to think every countries laws should be the same as USA and that their (other countries) laws are unjust, either you have prejudice against those countries (which you cleary do in the case of Russia), or you're basically just a troll.

Anyway, whatever the case it makes no difference - you've got your junkie back, so hopefully you'll be happy about that now.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> You just defined prejudice. Thats how it looks to "you". You took incomplete information, filtered through your biases, reinforced by cheap Russian propaganda, and used the word "fact" a couple dozen times in this thread.



If you want to dispute a matter in how I used the word "fact" specifically, that would be very welcomed.

I know we don't have complete information.  I am concerning myself with available information.

If you have reason to believe that your country has stopped lying to you and is no longer a beacon of propaganda, I am open to hear why your "bias" is more reasonable.  

I'd also be interested in hearing how your non-existing claims of "threats of national security" would rationalize keeping the soldier in Russian possession.

To me, it just looks like you are getting upset and are pivoting.

To a lot more people than just "me", it looks like the Biden administration chose affirmative action over confronting a greater scandal, like sending a spy into Russia.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Do you know what's prejudice? You are, you have shown it over and over in this thread.
> 
> Also, you have constantly tried to brush this womens crime off as not really a crime, where's your outrage over all the people in your countries prisons that are in there for possession of cannabis, you do know in USA you can get 5 years in prison for that, yet you seem to think every countries laws should be the same as USA and that their (other countries) laws are unjust, either you have prejudice against those countries (which you cleary do in the case of Russia), or you're basically just a troll.
> 
> Anyway, whatever the case it makes no difference - you've got your junkie back, so hopefully you'll be happy about that now.


How is a single THC vape pen a greater crime compared to espionage?


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> How is a single THC vape pen a greater crime compared to espionage?


Who said it was?

Drug smuggling is a serious crime though, and swapping a junkie for an Arms Dealer is a poor deal.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you want to dispute a matter in how I used the word "fact" specifically, that would be very welcomed.
> 
> I know we don't have complete information.  I am concerning myself with available information.
> 
> ...


Ok.. you use the word fact in place of "my bias". Also, this wasn't American propaganda, its russian propaganda. Theres literally no statement from the US that had been discussed in this thread. I'm not using bias. I'm looking objectively. A famous American was held in Russia, charges outrageous, and they brought her home. I didn't have to jump a bunch of hoops to make it racially motivated. Most of the logic behind youre guys' theory is non sequitur. 

Who knows why they didn't take the other dude instead, maybe Russia just wouldn't let him go because he's a spy. Makes more sense to me. If you think its race you'd have to believe that there would have been a meeting "are we gonna save that spy guy that's been there forever too?" "Nah, he's too white". Really?


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Who said it was?
> 
> Drugg smuggling is a serious crime though, and swapping a junkie for an Arms Dealer is a poor deal.


You seem to keep banging on as if she was smuggling fuck tons of drugs. It was THC cartridges that were less than a gram. That’s not even a crime in most places and a small fine in other places. No one would consider that to be “drug smuggling” nor see someone with such a low amount as a “druggie.” You seem to really want to portray her as a greater threat compared to a dude who was described as “The Merchant of Death.”


----------



## djnate27 (Dec 13, 2022)

Hayato213 said:


> I am American and I do think this is a bad trade.


Worst trade since the Red Sox traded Babe Ruth to the Yankees for $100,000 cash.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You seem to keep banging on as if she was smuggling fuck tons of drugs. It was THC cartridges that were less than a gram. That’s not even a crime in most places and a small fine in other places. No one would consider that to be “drug smuggling” nor see someone with such a low amount as a “druggie.” You seem to really want to portray her as a greater threat compared to a dude who was described as “The Merchant of Death.”


You can try and brush off her crimes as much as you want - but the facts are the facts.

She purposely concealed drugs and tried to smuggle those concealed drugs through another countries border so she could take those drugs while in that country. She's a convicted drug smuggler and as much as this grips your shit, it doesn't change anything. What you see as a misdemeanor in your country is not what another country sees. You seem to think that your countries laws should extend beyond its borders and your citizens shouln't be subject to the laws of another country, so did this junkie woman that was caught and she soon learned that was not the case.

You should learn to respect other countries, their customs and their laws and see the world from their point of view, because currently you don't seem to and maybe one day with that attitude you'll end up in trouble yourself.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Ok.. you use the word fact in place of "my bias".



That's not being specific.  That's generalized.  I disagree with your analysis completely, so let's try with one example.



WeedZ said:


> Also, this wasn't American propaganda, its russian propaganda.



I was referring to your esteem in that America had a good reason to not choose the "spy" despite the lack of provision of one.



WeedZ said:


> I'm not using bias. I'm looking objectively.



You literally invented reasoning on behalf of the US government, but you are not an acting official.  I would say that you are deluded in your capacity.



WeedZ said:


> I didn't have to jump a bunch of hoops to make it racially motivated. Most of the logic behind youre guys' theory is non sequitur.



Affirmative action appears to be the easiest conclusion without escalating the scenario to higher degrees of scandal.  If you think you can rationalize the trade for one person over the other, without making excuses on behalf of the US Government, I'm listening.



WeedZ said:


> Who knows why they didn't take the other dude instead, maybe Russia just wouldn't let him go because he's a spy.



This needs clarity.  Are you introducing the argument that the US didn't have the option offered to them?



WeedZ said:


> If you think its race you'd have to believe that there would have been a meeting "are we gonna save that spy guy that's been there forever too?" "Nah, he's too white". Really?



The only application of race would be in the act of affirmative action.  In such case, it wouldn't be a matter of spy guy being too white.  It'd be a matter of WNBA all-star being more of a minority.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Ok.. you use the word fact in place of "my bias". Also, this wasn't American propaganda, its russian propaganda. Theres literally no statement from the US that had been discussed in this thread. I'm not using bias. I'm looking objectively. A famous American was held in Russia, charges outrageous, and they brought her home. I didn't have to jump a bunch of hoops to make it racially motivated. Most of the logic behind youre guys' theory is non sequitur.
> 
> Who knows why they didn't take the other dude instead, maybe Russia just wouldn't let him go because he's a spy. Makes more sense to me. If you think its race you'd have to believe that there would have been a meeting "are we gonna save that spy guy that's been there forever too?" "Nah, he's too white". Really?


You’ve been deeply involved in this thread and I am glad to see that. Has mrdude at any point elaborated on why it was important to bring up their races and sexualities? I still fail to see why it was relevant for those matters to be brought up, outside the propaganda purposes


----------



## Jayro (Dec 13, 2022)

This may come as a shock to some of you (tabzer, namely) but there is no such thing as a "weed junkie".  
Cope and seeth as needed.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You’ve been deeply involved in this thread and I am glad to see that. Has mrdude at any point elaborated on why it was important to bring up their races and sexualities? I still fail to see why it was relevant for those matters to be brought up, outside the propaganda purposes


No need to ask others as I've already answered this very thing, you should re-read the thread as this point has already been brought up and answered, but I guess you're too lazy too read back a few pages.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 13, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Cope and seeth


Those commands were removed in firmware versions 2.1 due to several exploits that could load malware


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

Jayro said:


> This may come as a shock to some of you (tabzer, namely) but there is no such thing as a "weed junkie".
> Cope and seeth as needed.



People compromise themselves for things less useful than weed.  "Attention whore" comes to mind.


----------



## Luke94 (Dec 13, 2022)

Tabzer's avatar reminds me somehow of younger infant baby Elon Musk.


----------



## GlueSniffinEd (Dec 13, 2022)

It's never about what is right or wrong, it's about good PR for your voting base.

We have long left behind the idea of electing who is 'best' for the country, it's now all about voting for your 'team' as to not have your 'team' lose, and the politicians know this; hell, the politicians engineered this.  Do you really think that almost half of the voting base in GA actually believed that Herschel Walker would be a great, intelligent and wise choice to represent their state?  There's no way, it had to be about trying to make sure your team wins and the party knows the right buttons to push on the voters.  It's all propaganda no matter how you look at it and the USA is no different.  Our oligarchs are called 'Innovative Business Leaders', rather than the more negative term of 'oligarch'; same circus, different monkey, but they are the ones that really run the country, not 'The People'.

Dividing people into groups that can't get along - Check

Allowing oligarchs to make all of the laws and reap all of the benefits while raping the peasants for everything they have and having the balls to say "well, I'm only doing what's legal" - Check

Creating a separate common and ominous enemy for each of the above listed groups as to bind the 'team' dynamic even more firmly - Check

We're well on our way to having authoritarian rule here, hopefully it's after my time.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> No need to ask others as I've already answered this very thing, you should re-read the thread as this point has already been brought up and answered, but I guess you're too lazy too read back a few pages.


So why did you feel the need to bring them up? I am not going through 14 pages. 


mrdude said:


> You can try and brush off her crimes as much as you want - but the facts are the facts.
> 
> She purposely concealed drugs and tried to smuggle those concealed drugs through another countries border so she could take those drugs while in that country. She's a convicted drug smuggler and as much as this grips your shit, it doesn't change anything. What you see as a misdemeanor in your country is not what another country sees. You seem to think that your countries laws should extend beyond its borders and your citizens shouln't be subject to the laws of another country, so did this junkie woman that was caught and she soon learned that was not the case.
> 
> You should learn to respect other countries, their customs and their laws and see the world from their point of view, because currently you don't seem to and maybe one day with that attitude you'll end up in trouble yourself.


So less than a gram of weed is suddenly a major offense? That’s a gross overreaction to an offense that barely warrants a fine in some places.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 13, 2022)

Luke94 said:


> Tabzer's avatar reminds me somehow of younger infant baby Elon Musk.


Oh god it dose look like that. is that true @tabzer ?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Oh god it dose look like that. is that true @tabzer ?



It reminded me of Trump.  Did Elon have red hair before getting plugs?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It reminded me of Trump.  Did Elon have red hair before getting plugs?


I have no clue but the face just reminds of elon now........


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> I have no clue but the face just reminds of elon now........



I hear that every time you mention his name, you get 5 more articles about him in your feed.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I hear that every time you mention his name, you get 5 more articles about him in your feed.


The funny twitter man


----------



## Jayro (Dec 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It reminded me of Trump.  Did Elon have red hair before getting plugs?


Hardly matters, they both have very punchable faces.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 13, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Hardly matters, they both have very punchable faces.


We can ALL have punchable faces


----------



## tabzer (Dec 13, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Hardly matters, they both have very punchable faces.



Punching a child in a face will only elevate your junkie status.


----------



## mammastuffing (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Well in yet another failure from the Biden admin, you traded a black lesbian junkie that hates America, and swapped her for an arms dealer. But you did leave a straight white male in Russia that's been convicted of spying.....


What does skin color and sexuality have to do with anything?


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

mammastuffing said:


> What does skin color and sexuality have to do with anything?


Watch the video in the OP and find out for yourself. It shouldn't but the Biden admin chose to follow identity  politics so they made it a thing.


----------



## Luke94 (Dec 13, 2022)

Mrdude's avatar reminds me of Jesus Christ from South Park.


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 13, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Watch the video in the OP and find out for yourself. It shouldn't but the Biden admin chose to follow identity  politics so they made it a thing.


You mean the propaganda that you posted? I am still wondering you specifically felt the need to include them?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 13, 2022)

This has to be the only biggest news in WNBA history in the US..... kinda sad ngl


----------



## mrdude (Dec 13, 2022)

Luke94 said:


> Mrdude's avatar reminds me of Jesus Christ from South Park.


It's based on the Jesus Christ action figure playset, as seen here:


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You mean the propaganda that you posted? I am still wondering you specifically felt the need to include them?



Do you believe America's obsession and utilization of identity politics doesn't exist, or do you think it isn't racism?


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 14, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Do you believe America's obsession and utilization of identity politics doesn't exist, or do you think it isn't racism?


That’s not relevant to this conversation


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 14, 2022)

15 pages of people arguing over the word junkie. Stand up and take a bow everybody. That's fucking impressive.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That’s not relevant to this conversation



The subject of identity politics is the main point of the video.  It is their conclusion that identity politics is the reason why WNBA star was traded for.


----------



## TimPV3 (Dec 14, 2022)

Funny how we went from "it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, America is the best!" when we were mocked for Trump for 4 years, but now we're supposed to give a shit what Russia thinks


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 14, 2022)

tabzer said:


> The subject of identity politics is the main point of the video.  It is their conclusion that identity politics is the reason why WNBA star was traded for.


I literally don’t care what’s said in the video as I couldn’t care less what Russian propaganda has to say on any matter.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 14, 2022)

tabzer said:


> The subject of identity politics is the main point of the video.  It is their conclusion that identity politics is the reason why WNBA star was traded for.


There are any number of possible reasons they made the trade for her and not him. Maybe he wasn't considered, maybe russia refused, maybe its a national security issue, maybe he's already dead, maybe because she's famous. Maybe its for pr and nobody really knew this dude existed. Endless possibilities and you land on one of racial motivation and call it fact. Why? Simple, you're racist. You're scared to death that there is a conspiracy in the us to elevate the minority, homosexual and the non-typical gender over the established norm of hetero white males. And this propaganda, from the enemy of the traded no less, is designed to target and exploit that fear.  The simplest explanation is typically the right one. Do I think there's a dem conspiracy to push favor to minorities? Not entirely. Its just politicians doing what they do, pandering to what they believe their base wants in order to gain support. At the end of the day they are going to do what they intended to do with little regard for the people. Your lens of bias has distorted your reasoning. And now you are doing exactly what they wanted you to do. Make an issue of it, divide into opposing groups, and spread more hate.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 14, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I literally don’t care what’s said in the video as I couldn’t care less what Russian propaganda has to say on any matter.



It's the topic, and you are here, and the "conversation" you are having is based on it.



WeedZ said:


> There are any number of possible reasons they made the trade for her and not him. Maybe he wasn't considered, maybe russia refused, maybe its a national security issue, maybe he's already dead, maybe because she's famous.



Using information we don't have to deflect from information that we do have is untenable.  It is also possible that Brittney is also not black or a woman.



WeedZ said:


> Endless possibilities and you land on one of racial motivation and call it fact.



I don't know how many times I have to request this of you.  Quote me calling something fact, and why you don't think it is a fact.  Every time I ask you to do that, you accredit me saying something you make up in your head.



WeedZ said:


> Simple, you're racist. You're scared to death that there is a conspiracy in the us to elevate the minority, homosexual and the non-typical gender over the established norm of hetero white males. And this propaganda, from the enemy of the traded no less, is designed to target and exploit that fear. The simplest explanation is typically the right one. Do I think there's a dem conspiracy to push favor to minorities? Not entirely. Its just politicians doing what they do, pandering to what they believe their base wants in order to gain support. At the end of the day they are going to do what they intended to do with little regard for the people. Your lens of bias has distorted your reasoning. And now you are doing exactly what they wanted you to do. Make an issue of it, divide into opposing groups, and spread more hate.



Addressing the topic of identity politics and its use in American politics/media is not racist.  Saying that it looks like they prioritize utilizing it over being honorable to its people is a sentiment that you echo.

Or, I'll use your words:

"Its just politicians doing what they do, pandering to what they believe their base wants in order to gain support. At the end of the day they are going to do what they intended to do with little regard for the people."

The rest of what you say is just you being unhinged.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 15, 2022)

Sucks when Russia "propaganda" has a point that you don't like.


----------



## scroeffie1984 (Dec 15, 2022)

iam stil going to vote for biden he can do it we believe in him !! america joe biden fuck YEAHH !!!


----------



## sombrerosonic (Dec 15, 2022)

scroeffie1984 said:


> iam stil going to vote for biden he can do it we believe in him !! america joe biden fuck YEAHH !!!


Yea like debt crippling inflation!!!!! And keeping the insulin bill held back!!!!


----------



## mrdude (Dec 15, 2022)

scroeffie1984 said:


> iam stil going to vote for biden he can do it we believe in him !! america joe biden fuck YEAHH !!!


Haha, go for it. The longer the Dems are in charge the less powerful your country becomes. Soon you'll be taking your orders from China & living under a social credit system.


----------



## RedColoredStars (Dec 15, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> Biden has no room to talk about Gun Control with this crap.



Sure he does. Plenty of room. Given the fact gun control is part of The Constitution. I mean, unless of course, you're not a fan of The Constitution? Do you want to be like Trump and eliminate the parts of it you don't like?


----------



## Jayro (Dec 15, 2022)

mrdude said:


> Haha, go for it. The longer the Dems are in charge the less powerful your country becomes. Soon you'll be taking your orders from China & living under a social credit system.


That 2nd part sounds LIT!


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Sucks when Russia "propaganda" has a point that you don't like.


I love how no matter how much evidence you guys are given to the contrary, you just ignore it and keep spewing the same nonsense. If affirmative action is one in a about hundred possible reasons why they made this trade, then what is their point if not to reveal the racists that will cling to this one thing like a life preserver?

This is fear mongering of white genocide, and nothing more.


----------



## mrdude (Dec 15, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> I love how no matter how much evidence you guys are given to the contrary, you just ignore it and keep spewing the same nonsense. If affirmative action is one in a about hundred possible reasons why they made this trade, then what is their point if not to reveal the racists that will cling to this one thing like a life preserver?
> 
> This is fear mongering of white genocide, and nothing more.


Haha, you probably think cows are racists because the milk they produce is white......don't you have anything better to come up with, you've spouted that same racist line over and over as it's your default mode when you can't come up with anything coherent to say.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> *Using information we don't have to deflect from information that we do have* is untenable.  It is also possible that Brittney is also not black or a woman.


You dont have any information. theres no evidence whatsoever that this is affirmative action, other than this clip of the people that have every reason to mislead saying so.



tabzer said:


> I don't know how many times I have to request this of you.  Quote me calling something fact, and why you don't think it is a fact.  Every time I ask you to do that, you accredit me saying something you make up in your head.


I was going to go through the thread and quote every post where you use the word fact, but i see another opportunity here. pointing out that you dont even have the conviction to stand by it. youve been so fervently pushing this narrative, but when pressured your reply is "i didnt say it was *factually* happening" im beginning to think you know this is bullshit and youre just being annoyingly obstinate.



tabzer said:


> Addressing the topic of identity politics and its use in American politics/media is not racist.  Saying that it looks like they prioritize utilizing it over being honorable to its people is a sentiment that you echo.
> 
> Or, I'll use your words:
> 
> "Its just politicians doing what they do, pandering to what they believe their base wants in order to gain support. At the end of the day they are going to do what they intended to do with little regard for the people."


You missed my point. they will echo things like trans rights when trying to get votes, but name one thing theyve actively done that could be considered affirmative action.



mrdude said:


> Haha, you probably think cows are racists because the milk they produce is white......don't you have anything better to come up with, you've spouted that same racist line over and over as it's your default mode when *you can't come up with anything coherent to say.*


you are really good at not disputing my point. i asked what the point of this propaganda is if its not to get racists fired up and you respond with some nonsense about cows milk and how i keep calling you racist for falling for it. guess you have no defense...


----------



## Smoker1 (Dec 15, 2022)

RedColoredStars said:


> Sure he does. Plenty of room. Given the fact gun control is part of The Constitution. I mean, unless of course, you're not a fan of The Constitution? Do you want to be like Trump and eliminate the parts of it you don't like?


Where does it state Gun Control in the 2nd Amendment???????

_A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.

Please, do specify where Hunting, or Gun Control, Limiting, or ability to Deny is Listed. Also, there is a idiot in New Jersey claiming that the 2nd Amendment is for the Rich. So by that "Logic", that means anything that says The People, means the Rich, right???? So we dont have Rights???????? What does that make us? Dirt?????


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 15, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> Where does it state Gun Control in the 2nd Amendment???????
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.
> 
> Please, do specify where Hunting, or Gun Control, Limiting, or ability to Deny is Listed. Also, there is a idiot in New Jersey claiming that the 2nd Amendment is for the Rich. So by that "Logic", that means anything that says The People, means the Rich, right???? So we dont have Rights???????? What does that make us? Dirt?????


_A *-->well regulated<--* Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.


----------



## Jayro (Dec 15, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> _A *-->well regulated<--* Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.


Shhhhhh..... They don't wanna see that part.


----------



## Smoker1 (Dec 15, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> _A *-->well regulated<--* Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.


So where was Gun Control back then????????? Also, look at how it was back in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. No Incidents at Schools, until the 90s, and 2000s. People were able to get so many Firearms back in the 1900s, even by Mail. Yet no Reports my Parents heard of.
Plus, here is a few Examples of why the 2nd Amendment is Important:
UK Banned Firearms, and now dealing with Stabbings like crazy
New Jersey Woman, Carol M Bowne. She had a Restraining Order, but that did nothing to prevent her Death. She was waiting for a Firearm, and even called to find out what was taking so long. 4 Days later, she was Stabbed to Death. But hey, at least there was Gun Control. Curious to know how many others have Died while they waited, or how many Died because of some bull that caused them to be Denied.
Shooter that went to the Movie Theater went to that specific place, because it was a Gun-Free Zone, apparently. Same with a lot of other Shootings that happened. Because they knew no one would be able to Shoot back.
JAN 6th Capital : What if Trump and his Followers had succeed??? Apparently Trump was wanting to get the US out of NATO, also idolized China's Leader for being able to be President for Life, and hinted that we might have that at some point. He loved how North Korea's leader had a Military Parade, and wished our Military could do that for him. Along with Trump's Wife had connections to Putin, prior to Trump becoming Friendly with Putin (got a Joke about the Wife bit+90s Emails that always went around  ). So with Trump being Friendly with Communist Leaders/Countries, and wanting out of NATO, what if Trump started doing that, resulting in having Communist Countries starting influencing Laws and starting crap???? How would those Gun Haters-Grabbers Defend against that?????
My Mother was by herself at Home, Father was Visiting Family, and at around 6 at Night, dark out, someone tried opening the Front Door. This was NOT my Father. Due to CA (otherwise known as Kommiefornia) Laws, would be pretty hard for my Mother to Protect herself. She can not fight back, to do being smaller, Back Injury, and not strong. Cant use a Object like you would a Baton, because that is Illegal in CA. Pepper Ball Gun is Illegal. Also, what would stop a Criminal from ending someone to make sure they can not give a Description of the Criminal????? Also, unless you have Police on every Street Corner, it can take Police anywhere from 15-45 Minutes depending on various factors, if they show up at all. Especially since a few Court Cases have concluded that Law Enforcement are not Obligated to do anything.
Finally.......what about the fact that Criminals Steal or acquire Firearms from Illegal Sources????? FBI Vehicle that was broken into Years ago in the Bay Area, Southern CA Evidence where hundreds of Ammunition went Missing, Sacramento Club Shooting was done with Stolen Firearms, not to mention Black Market. The US, UK, China, Russia and France all deal in Arms Sales. You are telling me that none of those Weapons end up on the Black Market????? And that is just the Legal stuff they do.

	Post automatically merged: Dec 15, 2022

Oh, you know Gun Control was started up to prevent Blacks and others who were not White from getting Firearms, right??????

Also, Educate yourself, and watch some Videos
https://www.youtube.com/@ColionNoir/videos


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 15, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> So where was Gun Control back then????????? Also, look at how it was back in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. No Incidents at Schools, until the 90s, and 2000s. People were able to get so many Firearms back in the 1900s, even by Mail. Yet no Reports my Parents heard of.
> Plus, here is a few Examples of why the 2nd Amendment is Important:
> UK Banned Firearms, and now dealing with Stabbings like crazy
> New Jersey Woman, Carol M Bowne. She had a Restraining Order, but that did nothing to prevent her Death. She was waiting for a Firearm, and even called to find out what was taking so long. 4 Days later, she was Stabbed to Death. But hey, at least there was Gun Control. Curious to know how many others have Died while they waited, or how many Died because of some bull that caused them to be Denied.
> ...





RedColoredStars said:


> *you're not a fan of The Constitution? Do you want to be like Trump and eliminate the parts of it you don't like?*


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> You dont have any information. theres no evidence whatsoever that this is affirmative action, other than this clip of the people that have every reason to mislead saying so.



MSNBC reported that the Biden admin had a choice between the two, and Trump admin admits they had the option but turned it down.    The history and the current obsession with identity politics in America makes it the most likely conclusion based on the evidence provided.  If there is better information to explain why this trade makes more sense, I'm listening.  So far you offered a bunch of unsubstantiated "what ifs" that serve to encourage an unreasonable amount of faith in your government.



WeedZ said:


> I was going to go through the thread and quote every post where you use the word fact, but i see another opportunity here. pointing out that you dont even have the conviction to stand by it. youve been so fervently pushing this narrative, but when pressured your reply is "i didnt say it was *factually* happening" im beginning to think you know this is bullshit and youre just being annoyingly obstinate.



I asked for one, so that you could see that you were making things up.  Seems that it's working, because you are backpedaling.  If you want to keep doing the things you accuse me of, then by all means, keep pretending I'm afraid of white genocide, "you racist".



WeedZ said:


> _A *-->well regulated<--* Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.



The militia should be well-regulated, (implicitly) by the state--as in not federally.  People's right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.  It's weird how often you trip over English.  Must be that "education".


----------



## The Catboy (Dec 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Sucks when Russia "propaganda" has a point that you don't like.


What’s the point? That conservatives are sexist, racist, and homophobic?


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> What’s the point? That conservatives are sexist, racist, and homophobic?



That you are broken/dysfunctional.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> MSNBC reported that the Biden admin had a choice between the two, and Trump admin admits they had the option but turned it down.    The history and the current obsession with identity politics in America makes it the most likely conclusion based on the evidence provided.  If there is better information to explain why this trade makes more sense, I'm listening.  So far you offered a bunch of unsubstantiated "what ifs" that serve to encourage an unreasonable amount of faith in your government.


both political sided sources for you.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-n...en-choice-between-griner-whelan-prisoner-swap

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ned-russia-says-warned-brittney-gri-rcna60732

"*CORRECTION* (Dec. 8, 2022, 4:09 p.m.): An earlier version of this article misstated the choice the Biden administration was given over hostages. It was to swap for Griner or no one, not a choice between Griner or Whelan."

You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of. again, there is no evidence that this is affirmative action, its just your bias that leads you to this conclusion.


tabzer said:


> I asked for one, so that you could see that you were making things up.  Seems that it's working, because you are backpedaling.  If you want to keep doing the things you accuse me of, then by all means, keep pretending I'm afraid of white genocide, "you racist".


I almost quoted you again, but i dont want you to sidestep this. it comes down to two choices here..

do you believe?
A. This russian report is factually true and biden chose a deal for prisoner exchange based on race and gender, therefore this isnt propaganda.

or

B. We don't know the specifics of how or why this deal was made, therefore this is russian propaganda.

Thats all there is to it...



tabzer said:


> The militia should be well-regulated, (implicitly) by the state--as in not federally.  People's right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.  It's weird how often you trip over English.  Must be that "education".


First of all, "a free state" doesn't mean Ohio or Georgia. That is the most juvenile take i've heard so far.

It doesn't even say "regulated by (the state)" it says "necessary to the security of".

Not to mention, that's not a period between "..free state" and "the right of..." That's a comma.
By the rules of English..

"A comma *indicates a pause between the ending of an introductory word, phrase, or clause, and the beginning of the main part of the sentence*. The most common introductory word groups are clauses or phrases which function as adverbs, telling how, why, when, where, or under what conditions something happened.

furthermore, to join two independent clauses you need a conjunction (and, or, but, because, for, if, and when). Which this does not have. These are not independent clauses.

So in other words: "The right to bear arms, in a well regulated militia, for the securty of the state (not ohio), shall not be infringed."

"Must be that education"? I'm cringing from the irony..


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> First of all, "a free state" doesn't mean Ohio or Georgia. That is the most juvenile take i've heard so far.
> 
> It doesn't even say "regulated by (the state)" it says "necessary to the security of".
> 
> ...



State isn't only Ohio.  State is aggregating, including everything from the individual, up to unions and companies, accumulating to your preferred (constrictive) definition of state.  There is a potential for an unlimited number of states, and it's not by accident that the 50 states are also called states.  For the purpose of the amendment, and its limitation of the government to rule top-down (dictatorial) vs bottom-up (aggregating), the second amendment is not explaining how the government shall regulate gun control, per your stroke.  It is not suggested that the right to bear arms is dependent on the militia being well regulated by the government, but that a well regulated militia relies on its people who have their freedom to bear arms and is developed by the aggregate.

More later.  Keep breathing.


----------



## Osakasan (Dec 16, 2022)

Don't kid yourself, we're all mocking the USA for electing a conman as their presient and allowing themselves to be cheated by the annoying orange idiot.

What's more, they formed a CULT around him, the very same cunt that just revealed a NFT set of him as if were the biggest news ever. AND PEOPLE FALL FOR HIS SHIT.

The US (Not America) is already the world's laughting stock, but that country has its head too far into their own ass to realize.

EDIT: We would also laught about the almost daily school shootings if they weren't so sad. You fuckers have both the culprit and the means to mitigate it, but wont do it because MUH WEPONS


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> _A *-->well regulated<--* Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.


Say you don't understand commas without saying you don't understand commas.


----------



## tabzer (Dec 16, 2022)

Osakasan said:


> Don't kid yourself, we're all mocking the USA for electing a conman as their presient and allowing themselves to be cheated by the annoying orange idiot.
> 
> What's more, they formed a CULT around him, the very same cunt that just revealed a NFT set of him as if were the biggest news ever. AND PEOPLE FALL FOR HIS SHIT.
> 
> ...



America has "freedom" and every other country kow-tows or is an enemy of "the state".  So there's that..

Embrace our freedom or you are a racist and/or terrorist.



TraderPatTX said:


> Say you don't understand commas without saying you don't understand commas.



Commas don't even matter.  There are people who can see, clearly, the intention of the bill of rights---and then there are those who think it is the bill of government rights.  They are already owned, if the nuance wasn't obvious.


----------



## GlueSniffinEd (Dec 16, 2022)

The Constitution is the law of the land federally and lays out the base rules for all States at the federal level.  Individual States are allowed to make their own laws and rules, but none of them can uphold laws that are contradictory to The Constitution.

In the 2nd Amendment, the word 'state' does not refer to individual States in the union, it refers to a status, e.g. "Johnny hasn't cleaned his room in weeks, it's in a terrible state."

The whole reason for the 2nd Amendment isn't for hunting or self defense, the reason is to allow the people to rise up against an oppressive government should the need arise again (Great Britain and the King in this case) in the future.

"_This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding._"


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Say you don't understand commas without saying you don't understand commas.





WeedZ said:


> Not to mention, that's not a period between "..free state" and "the right of..." That's a comma.
> By the rules of English..
> 
> "A comma *indicates a pause between the ending of an introductory word, phrase, or clause, and the beginning of the main part of the sentence*. The most common introductory word groups are clauses or phrases which function as adverbs, telling how, why, when, where, or under what conditions something happened.
> ...


Tell me you don't understand commas without saying you don't understand commas.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> State isn't only Ohio.  State is aggregating, including everything from the individual, up to unions and companies, accumulating to your preferred (constrictive) definition of state.  There is a potential for an unlimited number of states, and it's not by accident that the 50 states are also called states.  For the purpose of the amendment, and its limitation of the government to rule top-down (dictatorial) vs bottom-up (aggregating), the second amendment is not explaining how the government shall regulate gun control, per your stroke.  It is not suggested that the right to bear arms is dependent on the militia being well regulated by the government, but that a well regulated militia relies on its people who have their freedom to bear arms and is developed by the aggregate.
> 
> More later.  Keep breathing.


There is something wrong with you...

You have not responded to anything I've said. Just trying to save face because you misquoted it as "regulated by the state". Maybe you should own up to not knowing what you're talking about, then learn and grow as a person. Instead of sticking to your ignorant naive guns and being an annoying bigoted pain in ass to everyone.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Tell me you don't understand commas without saying you don't understand commas.


I bet you think the General Welfare Clause means the government gives welfare to the citizens because leftists always try to interpret text through a modern lens instead of how the author intended it.

But if it really does mean what you want it to mean, we can go back to the private ownership of warships and cannons. Meet you on the high seas, Scooter.


----------



## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I bet you think the General Welfare Clause means the government gives welfare to the citizens because leftists always try to interpret text through a modern lens instead of how the author intended it.
> 
> But if it really does mean what you want it to mean, we can go back to the private ownership of warships and cannons. Meet you on the high seas, Scooter.


I bet you think the government made an ammendment to the constitution to allow the people to fight itself. Only a conservative would think treason were patriotic.


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> I bet you think the government made an ammendment to the constitution to allow the people to fight itself. Only a conservative would think treason were patriotic.


I'll let the Founders speak for themselves.

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
-George Washington

The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.
-Thomas Jefferson

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-Benjamin Franklin

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.
-Patrick Henry

The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.
-Thomas Paine

And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.
-Samuel Adams

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.
-Alexander Hamilton

(C)onceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular States, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend by force of arms, their rights, when invaded.
-Roger Sherman

The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them.
-Zachariah Johnson


----------



## Mythrandir (Dec 16, 2022)

With all of the discourse regarding propaganda, I thought this video may be relevant since brother Dayz and brother Brad discuss domestic psychological warfare. It's a two hour long video that will likely require a few sessions to complete, but it's a fun and interesting discussion.



Spoiler: Video







Previewing my post suggests that the video is not available unless watching directly on YouTube. I'm not sure why that is.


----------



## J-Machine (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'll let the Founders speak for themselves.
> 
> A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
> -George Washington
> ...


this was for defending against invaders, not your fellow man. we have a USA history class up here in canada and let me tell ya; your country really sucks at interpreting it's own past


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

J-Machine said:


> this was for defending against invaders, not your fellow man. we have a USA history class up here in canada and let me tell ya; your country really sucks at interpreting it's own past


Can you at least back your claim up with a quote? I'm not going to take the word of somebody who still bows to a king and whose prime minister parades around in blackface.


----------



## J-Machine (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Can you at least back your claim up with a quote? I'm not going to take the word of somebody who still bows to a king and whose prime minister parades around in blackface.


https://www.teachforamerica.org/one-day/magazine/when-will-history-be-taught-honestly

also we don't bow to the king. we have a representative of the monarchy that has no real power and acts merely as an observer in our politics


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

J-Machine said:


> https://www.teachforamerica.org/one-day/magazine/when-will-history-be-taught-honestly
> 
> also we don't bow to the king. we have a representative of the monarchy that has no real power and acts merely as an observer in our politics


There wasn't a single quote from any Founder or anybody who helped write or ratify the Bill of Rights. 

Maybe you are French-Canadian and English is your second language?


----------



## J-Machine (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> There wasn't a single quote from any Founder or anybody who helped write or ratify the Bill of Rights.
> 
> Maybe you are French-Canadian and English is your second language?


if your country refuses to get colombus right it's not a stretch to believe they got the wars wrong or the founding fathers. but hey i'll indulge:


----------



## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

J-Machine said:


> if your country refuses to get colombus right it's not a stretch to believe they got the wars wrong or the founding fathers. but hey i'll indulge:



Look up who was considered part of the militia in 1791. It was every able bodied male citizen.

The Continental Army and Navy was made up of private ownership of arms and warships.

Arms = any kind of weapon, not even necessarily a gun

Go read the quotes from the Founders that I shared earlier. There is a reason why your video neglected to mention their thoughts on the subject. The same reason why you neglect to mention their thoughts on the subject.

If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.

-Alexander Hamilton
No. 29 - The Federalist Papers (1787–1788)


----------



## J-Machine (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Look up who was considered part of the militia in 1791. It was every able bodied male citizen.
> 
> The Continental Army and Navy was made up of private ownership of arms and warships.
> 
> ...


all that quote means is the military is not allowed to coup the gov and become the ruling party. the nra really has you drinking the cool aid


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## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> I'll let the Founders speak for themselves.
> 
> A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
> -George Washington
> ...


In the 1780's the US was a newly born country under threat of European monarchs. It didn't have, nor could afford, a standing army. The 2nd amendment was to ensure that armed citizens could be called on to form militia under regulation by the government to fight on its behalf. When they say that it includes the right of people to fight their own government, they are talking about those still immigrating from those monarchs (as in their homeland governments). To think that an infant country, still frail and under threat from every European tyrant would suggest that its people overthrow them with force of firearms is absolute lunacy.


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## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> In the 1780's the US was a newly born country under threat of European monarchs. It didn't have, nor could afford, a standing army. The 2nd amendment was to ensure that armed citizens could be called on to form militia under regulation by the government to fight on its behalf. When they say that it includes the right of people to fight their own government, they are talking about those still immigrating from those monarchs (as in their homeland governments). To think that an infant country, still frail and under threat from every European tyrant would suggest that its people overthrow them with force of firearms is absolute lunacy.


All that you need to do now is provide a quote from a Founder to back up your claim. It's real easy to do, as I have already shown. I'll even repost one because you obviously didn't read any of the quotes I shared.

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
-George Washington

	Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2022



WeedZ said:


> In the 1780's the US was a newly born country under threat of European monarchs. It didn't have, nor could afford, a standing army. The 2nd amendment was to ensure that armed citizens could be called on to form militia under regulation by the government to fight on its behalf. When they say that it includes the right of people to fight their own government, they are talking about those still immigrating from those monarchs (as in their homeland governments). To think that an infant country, still frail and under threat from every European tyrant would suggest that its people overthrow them with force of firearms is absolute lunacy.


All that you need to do now is provide a quote from a Founder to back up your claim. It's real easy to do, as I have already shown. I'll even repost one because you obviously didn't read any of the quotes I shared.

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
-George Washington


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## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> All that you need to do now is provide a quote from a Founder to back up your claim. It's real easy to do, as I have already shown. I'll even repost one because you obviously didn't read any of the quotes I shared.
> 
> A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
> -George Washington





WeedZ said:


> In the 1780's the US was a newly born country under threat of European monarchs. It didn't have, nor could afford, a standing army. The 2nd amendment was to ensure that armed citizens could be called on to form militia under regulation by the government to fight on its behalf. *When they say that it includes the right of people to fight their own government, they are talking about those still immigrating from those monarchs (as in their homeland governments).* To think that an infant country, still frail and under threat from every European tyrant would suggest that its people overthrow them with force of firearms is absolute lunacy.


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## TraderPatTX (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> In the 1780's the US was a newly born country under threat of European monarchs. It didn't have, nor could afford, a standing army. The 2nd amendment was to ensure that armed citizens could be called on to form militia under regulation by the government to fight on its behalf. When they say that it includes the right of people to fight their own government, they are talking about those still immigrating from those monarchs (as in their homeland governments). To think that an infant country, still frail and under threat from every European tyrant would suggest that its people overthrow them with force of firearms is absolute lunacy.


Pay particular attention to the bolded and underlined part. Also note that it is a quote from George Washington, the first president in this newly born country.

All that you need to do now is provide a quote from a Founder to back up your claim. It's real easy to do, as I have already shown. I'll even repost one because you obviously didn't read any of the quotes I shared.

A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, *which would include their own government*.
-George Washington


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## Smoker1 (Dec 16, 2022)

As per the Supreme Court, looking at the History and the Text of the Amendment......

The 2nd Amendment was Established, so that The People, which is EVERYONE in the US, has the Right to Protect, and Defend themselves, their Families, their Homes, others, and if needed, Protect this Country from Threats both Foreign and Domestic, to keep this Country Free, and for The People. Meaning to keep this Country Free and Secure from other Countries, like how it was with England wanting to Rule over the People, and also, to ensure the Country remains Free, make sure the People can stand up against the Government, if they ever decide to force their will against the People, stripping us of our Rights, and trying to Rule over us with a Iron Fist.

Also Love how some Officials support only some Amendments, but want to completely ignore, or want to get rid of others. Like Republicans wanting to do a Abortion Ban, because it is against their Religion, which would Violate the 1st Amendment, in where No Law Establishing Religion.......MEANING any Laws forcing or pushing Religious Views or Beliefs are Null and Void. It was known how Religion can go against People's Rights. Hence why it was put in there, but also includes that People can follow whichever Religion they want. But then again, that Abortion Ban also is making Men Dominant over Women, when Women can do damn near anything a Man can, so they should be viewed as Equals.

But you have this Idiot, trying to put out there that the 2nd Amendment was for the Rich. Well, the Text reads, "...The People....." so.....he is saying that the Rich are the People only, huh? So what does that make us???? Dirt????? Less than Dirt??????


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## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

TraderPatTX said:


> Pay particular attention to the bolded and underlined part. Also note that it is a quote from George Washington, the first president in this newly born country.
> 
> All that you need to do now is provide a quote from a Founder to back up your claim. It's real easy to do, as I have already shown. I'll even repost one because you obviously didn't read any of the quotes I shared.
> 
> ...


YOU'RE not accounting for the time.

Let me slow this down for you..

Its late 1770s. You are an English man, born and ruled over by king George. You sail to the new world. A land mostly unsettled without any centralized rule. You hope to find freedom and eventually you meet George Washington. 

He says to you, "Good form 'ol chap. We could surely use thyself amongst our ranks in our most righteous rebellion against the crown, cheerio."

"But good sir!" You reply. "My allegiance  is with the great majesty the king! I am a man of England. Though I have come to be free, I haven't the fortitude nor the armaments to assist you in such a noble feat. Simple English folk aren't allowed to carry glocks all willy nilly."

So George replies "You daft fool, A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."

Now what government to do you think he's referring to?


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## tabzer (Dec 16, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> You have not responded to anything I've said. Just trying to save face because you misquoted it as "regulated by the state". Maybe you should own up to not knowing what you're talking about, then learn and grow as a person. Instead of sticking to your ignorant naive guns and being an annoying bigoted pain in ass to everyone.



I wasn't quoting the second amendment.  I was attempting to explain it.  Yes, militia is to be regulated by the state (not only Ohio), raised from a people who are free to bear arms, to contribute to the security and the freedom of the nation  (bottom-up).  It isn't, as you suggest, a centralized authority saying who can carry what guns while enlisted in their army (top-down).  Also, guns aren't naive.  They have no will at all.

It isn't racist or bigoted to point out racism in America.  I don't care what race Brittney is, as she was a bad trade regardless.  American policies demonstrably do care about people's races and it isn't a stretch to assume that America hasn't stopped its identity politics campaign just for this situation.  I'm astutely arguing that to assume that America has turned a new leaf and dropped identity politics _is the stretch._  To believe that everything your government says is true, that doubt and criticism is propaganda, is just moronic.  Maybe you are afraid of your government and you think that whoring yourself out to it is better than possibly being branded a "traitor".  TBF, I don't blame you, but it is pathetic.

Let me know if I forgot to address something.


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## J-Machine (Dec 16, 2022)

Smoker1 said:


> As per the Supreme Court, looking at the History and the Text of the Amendment......
> 
> The 2nd Amendment was Established, so that The People, which is EVERYONE in the US, has the Right to Protect, and Defend themselves, their Families, their Homes, others, and if needed, Protect this Country from Threats both Foreign and Domestic, to keep this Country Free, and for The People. Meaning to keep this Country Free and Secure from other Countries, like how it was with England wanting to Rule over the People, and also, to ensure the Country remains Free, make sure the People can stand up against the Government, if they ever decide to force their will against the People, stripping us of our Rights, and trying to Rule over us with a Iron Fist.
> 
> ...



the people who actually study the documents of that time would disagree with the supreme courts decision. if the argument was "does the 2nd ammendment currently mean everyone can carry a gun to defend themselves?" the answer is yes but only very recently. the argument though is what did the fore fathers mean when they wrote the second amendment and what they meant was "we can give people guns and make them fight the British to assert our freedom of rule."


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## WeedZ (Dec 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I wasn't quoting the second amendment.  I was attempting to explain it.  Yes, militia is to be regulated by the state (not only Ohio), raised from a people who are free to bear arms, to contribute to the security and the freedom of the nation  (bottom-up).  It isn't, as you suggest, a centralized authority saying who can carry what guns while enlisted in their army (top-down).  Also, guns aren't naive.  They have no will at all.
> 
> It isn't racist or bigoted to point out racism in America.  I don't care what race Brittney is, as she was a bad trade regardless.  American policies demonstrably do care about people's races and it isn't a stretch to assume that America hasn't stopped its identity politics campaign just for this situation.  I'm astutely arguing that to assume that America has turned a new leaf and dropped identity politics _is the stretch._  To believe that everything your government says is true, that doubt and criticism is propaganda, is just moronic.  Maybe you are afraid of your government and you think that whoring yourself out to it is better than possibly being branded a "traitor".  TBF, I don't blame you, but it is pathetic.
> 
> Let me know if I forgot to address something.


Where do you keep getting that it says a militia should be regulated by the state?


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## TraderPatTX (Dec 17, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> YOU'RE not accounting for the time.
> 
> Let me slow this down for you..
> 
> ...


What government is he not referring to? Back up your answer with quoted evidence in his own words.


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## smf (Dec 17, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Where do you keep getting that it says a militia should be regulated by the state?


https://theconversation.com/why-the...itia-but-not-a-private-citizen-militia-162489


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## Smoker1 (Dec 17, 2022)

Sorry to burst your Bubble, but yes, the People do have the Right to Weapons. Due to a item in the Constitution, that even some idiots in Office say we dont have.



Spoiler: Declaration of Independence Text......



*THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE*​
*In Congress, July 4, 1776
THE UNANIMOUS DECLARATION
of the
THIRTEEN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA*

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.--That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate, that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these States. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operations till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them, and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the State remaining, in the meantime, exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies, without the consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing taxes on us without our consent:

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:

For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries, so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:

For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection, and waging war against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is, at this time, transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow-citizens, taken captive on the high seas, to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, and conditions.

In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them, from time to time, of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They, too, have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, _free and independent States;_ that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that as _free and independent States,_ they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which_ independent States_ may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honour.


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## tabzer (Dec 17, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Where do you keep getting that it says a militia should be regulated by the state?



I don't understand why you think "state" means federal situation, but not the state of everything else.  Free state is bill, bob, and john agreeing with each other and forming a colony to eventually enter a mutually-beneficial union with others, not top-down tyranny telling how people need to behave and what qualifies them to be "free".  Hence the bill of rights, and why the 2nd amendment is not a roadmap for the fed to remove rights, as you suggest.

"You have not responded to anything I've said"


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## Ettino (Dec 17, 2022)

Lmao at all the drama. Weed is legal here in canada, I literally just came back from the dispensary. Also Hawaiian pizza is the bomb yo!


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## tabzer (Dec 17, 2022)

Ettino said:


> Also Hawaiian pizza is the bomb yo!


I just pour pineapple juice all over my pizza if I want to ruin it.  I see no reason to mock the pizzeria.


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## WeedZ (Dec 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I don't understand why you think "state" means federal situation, but not the state of everything else.  Free state is bill, bob, and john agreeing with each other and forming a colony to eventually enter a mutually-beneficial union with others, not top-down tyranny telling how people need to behave and what qualifies them to be "free".  Hence the bill of rights, and why the 2nd amendment is not a roadmap for the fed to remove rights, as you suggest.
> 
> "You have not responded to anything I've said"


Bro. I dont care what you're defining state as in order to save face.

Read this:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Then tell me where it says its regulated by the state (regardless of what your definition of the word 'state' may be..)

You were literally quoting the amendment. I know it, you know it, and everyone reading this thread knows it. Its only couple pages back. The fact that you're now trying to play it off as just a coincidental choice of words shows you have no integrity, and everything you say is suspect. You now have absolutely no value in this debate.

Youre defaulting to that retroactively changing your argument as if it were your point the whole time again.


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## mrdude (Dec 17, 2022)

It seems we have a lot of "Expert Armchair lawyers" in here. One week they are experts in Russian/Ukraine geo politics, Human biology the next, Vaccine efficacy the next, The American Bill of Rights the next, Brexit and the UK, Who's racist and who's not, etc.... I wonder what you'll be experts in next week???


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## tabzer (Dec 17, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Bro. I dont care what you're defining state as in order to save face.
> 
> Read this:
> 
> ...



"Bro."

Everyone knows what a quote is, and when I chop it into pieces, paraphrase it, and spoon-feed it to you; that ain't it.

The argument never changed.  You simply are deflecting from the point that you argued that the 2a is about federal gun control while everything about the text says you are wrong.

And yes, it's for the state.

Pretty bad when @Nothereed is agreeing with you.  That stamp is like poison.

Everything you say is trash.  I win.


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## Mythrandir (Dec 17, 2022)

This is all quite a bit off topic from the original post, but it provides an opportunity for a fun exercise.



J-Machine said:


> all that quote means is the military is not allowed to coup the gov and become the ruling party.


I'm not quite so sure that is correct. We can use hermeneutics to come to an exegetical interpretation of the text. Although hermeneutics and exegesis are terms usually used in biblical interpretation, this is not the exclusive application. They may be and are applied to any form of communication. If you observe any error in my exegesis of the Alexander Hamilton quote provided by @TraderPatTX, please let me know what my error is so that I may avoid repeating it in the future. Such instruction would permit the opportunity for me to improve myself as a student of biblical literature.



TraderPatTX said:


> If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude


This is referring to any situation that the government deems it necessary to form a standing army of any size.


TraderPatTX said:


> that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people


The term "people" is referring to civilian individuals rather than government body officials. We can conclude this is the case because, in it's context, it is distinct from the term "government" used previously. These are two distinct nouns.


TraderPatTX said:


> while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms


This large body of citizens is referring back to the term "people." The term "them" is referring to the army formed by the government. The term "inferior" is referring back to the large body of citizens. The terms "discipline" and "use" are referring to "arms." Arms in this context would mean weapons, not exclusively black powder projectile firearms.


TraderPatTX said:


> , who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.


This clause is referring back to "people."


TraderPatTX said:


> This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.


"Me" is referring to Alexander Hamilton, the author of the written correspondence this is quoted from. The substitute for a standing army that he is referring to is one that is not formidable to the large body of citizens in regard to the discipline and use of arms. Hamilton also asserts that this lack of formidability is the best defense against an oppressive regime if it is determined that a standing army ought to exist.

In other words, Alexander Hamilton claimed that if the government should determine that a standing army ought to exist, then that army ought not be superior to a large body of civilians in regard to the discipline and use of arms because such superiority in arms poses a threat to the liberty of the civilian population.

Please let me know if I made any errors in my analysis. Thank you @J-Machine and @TraderPatTX for providing the opportunity for this exercise.


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## TraderPatTX (Dec 17, 2022)

Mythrandir said:


> This is all quite a bit off topic from the original post, but it provides an opportunity for a fun exercise.
> 
> 
> I'm not quite so sure that is correct. We can use hermeneutics to come to an exegetical interpretation of the text. Although hermeneutics and exegesis are terms usually used in biblical interpretation, this is not the exclusive application. They may be and are applied to any form of communication. If you observe any error in my exegesis of the Alexander Hamilton quote provided by @TraderPatTX, please let me know what my error is so that I may avoid repeating it in the future. Such instruction would permit the opportunity for me to improve myself as a student of biblical literature.
> ...


I think you nailed it. Good analysis.

I'm sure biblical text that has been translated to English is much harder to decipher than text from the 18th and 19th centuries. The Founders purposefully wrote in plain English so everybody could understand what they were trying to say.

Well... almost everybody, as you can see on this forum.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Dec 17, 2022)

Weed = JuNKiE

okay buddy. get that reefer madness shit out of here and go back to 1998...or 1936


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## tabzer (Dec 17, 2022)

A junkie can be anyone who'd compromise their well-being, or someone else's, for a particular interest.  Weed shouldn't be something that people will lie, cheat, and steal, for... but there are people who do, so it is.  Marijuana, by itself, is mostly harmless.  It's ironic because the people who are most vocal about weed being the issue here are prioritizing their ideals over the fact that someone went a great distance to break another country's laws.  It wasn't just any country, but an "enemy" country.  You wouldn't sneak a beer into Qatar, or you should at least know better.  If you are willing to risk prison, or worse, for a thing, it's arguable that you have a dependency and have comprised your rationality for it.

My conclusion here, is that Brittney's choice was at the expense of something better being negotiated.  It was a shit deal and I truly wonder what optics the Biden administration was going for.  Unfortunately for America, Russian "propaganda" offers more of an explanation than Biden.


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## mrdude (Dec 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> A junkie can be anyone who'd compromise their well-being, or someone else's, for a particular interest.  Weed shouldn't be something that people will lie, cheat, and steal, for... but there are people who do, so it is.  Marijuana, by itself, is mostly harmless.  It's ironic because the people who are most vocal about weed being the issue here are prioritizing their ideals over the fact that someone went a great distance to break another country's laws.  It wasn't just any country, but an "enemy" country.  You wouldn't sneak a beer into Qatar, or you should at least know better.  If you are willing to risk prison, or worse, for a thing, it's arguable that you have a dependency and have comprised your rationality for it.
> 
> My conclusion here, is that Brittney's choice was at the expense of something better being negotiated.


There's no point pointing out the obvious to these people, they will do mental gymnastics to try and justify their stance on drugs....and yes, will try and turn the topic away from the drug smuggling and make that out to be a non-issue. They don't respect others or other countries laws, they are all about themselves. That's how narcissists operate. it's their way or they get all screetchy and start looking for a safe space and someone that thinks like them so they can feel that they are the bastion of truth and justice. I've also noticed when they don't get their way they will call you names, usual ones are Racist/Bigot etc, In my experience they think everyone thinks like them and because they are the true racists and bigots they think everyone else is as well and they start calling others that to try and divert the heat away from themselves.


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## J-Machine (Dec 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> "Bro."
> 
> Everyone knows what a quote is, and when I chop it into pieces, paraphrase it, and spoon-feed it to you; that ain't it.
> 
> ...


not "the free state" but "free state" as in a state of being free. this isn't about california or texas and their rights as a landmass of governance.


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## tabzer (Dec 18, 2022)

J-Machine said:


> not "the free state" but "free state" as in a state of being free. this isn't about california or texas and their rights as a landmass of governance.


This is how you misquote something @WeedZ.  Notice how @J-Machine quoted text that isn't there.

For @J-Machine "the state" could be interpreted as being California if I said "the state of California".  The way I am using it is not specifying a political territory or a specific condition of someone or something.  You, like @WeedZ, are attempting to fill in the blanks and arriving at your own conclusions.  It's a little ironic, considering the way he started on this thread, arguing the benefit of the doubt for the Biden administration.


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## Luke94 (Dec 18, 2022)

Today I drink Cannabis/Marijuana in drinkable liquid. Still no hallucinations.


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## mrdude (Dec 19, 2022)

Luke94 said:


> Today I drink Cannabis/Marijuana in drinkable liquid. Still no hallucinations.


Give yourself a clap on the back.


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## WeedZ (Dec 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> This is how you misquote something @WeedZ.  Notice how @J-Machine quoted text that isn't there.
> 
> For @J-Machine "the state" could be interpreted as being California if I said "the state of California".  The way I am using it is not specifying a political territory or a specific condition of someone or something.  You, like @WeedZ, are attempting to fill in the blanks and arriving at your own conclusions.  It's a little ironic, considering the way he started on this thread, arguing the benefit of the doubt for the Biden administration.







WeedZ said:


> _A *-->well regulated<--* Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed_.





tabzer said:


> The militia should be well-regulated, (implicitly) by the state--as in not federally.  People's right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.  It's weird how often you trip over English.  Must be that "education".



Or you can be like @tabzer and just pretend like you didn't say what you said because you were wrong..

Tried to interpret the 2nd for me, even said i couldn't English, but when I called him out on it not saying anything about being regulated by the state or not being regulated federally, he says he wasnt quoting the 2nd... but yet here he is, doing just that...

So again I ask you. If I'm the one tripping over English, then were does it say its regulated by the state?


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## tabzer (Dec 19, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Tried to interpret the 2nd for me, even said i couldn't English, but when I called him out on it not saying anything about being regulated by the state or not being regulated federally, he says he wasnt quoting the 2nd... but yet here he is, doing just that...



Interpretation is not quotation, by definition.

If you don't like the word "state", try typing out the second amendment without it.


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## Luke94 (Dec 19, 2022)

Do poppyseeds noodles and poppyseeds cakes contains Marijuana too as well? Are those drugs too?


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## tabzer (Dec 19, 2022)

Luke94 said:


> Do poppyseeds noodles and poppyseeds cakes contains Marijuana too as well? Are those drugs too?


Anything can be a drug.  The only reason it matters is how it is defined by the government and what qualifies as a "controlled substance", and that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.


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## Luke94 (Dec 19, 2022)

I guess same goes for alcohol,electronics,drugs,medicines,carbonated drinks,food,sleeping,technology,religion,politics,celebrities,rituals/obssessions,fetishes,magic.


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## WeedZ (Dec 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Interpretation is not quotation, by definition.
> 
> If you don't like the word "state", try typing out the second amendment without it.


Fucking hell you're ridiculous. Its a simple question.



tabzer said:


> The militia should be well-regulated, (implicitly) by the state


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Where did you see that?


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## City (Dec 19, 2022)

Despite everything, she's still an American citizen. It's the government's duty to bring their people back to safety, especially if she's in a country like Russia.


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## Luke94 (Dec 19, 2022)

I guess reading Books,watching sports(on TV,newspapers,internet,playing videogames,computer Games as modern entertainment),hygiene could be addictive.


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## mrdude (Dec 19, 2022)

Luke94 said:


> I guess reading Books,watching sports(on TV,newspapers,internet,playing videogames,computer Games as modern entertainment),hygiene could be addictive.


So is mastrubabation, most people start that young and carry on doing it for most of their lives - however it's not illegal and it's not a drug & you aren't going to be arrested for smuggling your hands through customs. Drug smugling on the other hand and breaking the laws of another country because you feel "entitled" and above the law is not going to end well for anyone that's caught, so I advise you if you ever get caught doing that to not waffle on about playing video games to the judge when stating your defence as they will probably lock you up for longer for your cheek.


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## tabzer (Dec 19, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Fucking hell you're ridiculous. Its a simple question.
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Where did you see that?


In the interest of a free state a militia should be well regulated. It's in the 2a.




Luke94 said:


> I guess reading Books,watching sports(on TV,newspapers,internet,playing videogames,computer Games as modern entertainment),hygiene could be addictive.



Yes.  Any one of those things could be indulged at unhealthy degrees.


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## Luke94 (Dec 19, 2022)

I guess fashion and money could be also addictive.


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## WeedZ (Dec 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> In the interest of a free state a militia should be well regulated. It's in the 2a.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats not even how it goes.. its so weasely how you won't just admit you made a mistake. I can disagree with someone and still respect them, but I dont respect deliberate disingenuousness. Its hypocritical. You're words mean absolutely nothing because you've revealed your intentions. I'm just done with you dude.


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## tabzer (Dec 19, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> Thats not even how it goes.. its so weasely how you won't just admit you made a mistake. I can disagree with someone and still respect them, but I dont respect deliberate disingenuousness. Its hypocritical. You're words mean absolutely nothing because you've revealed your intentions. I'm just done with you dude.



I don't care how you define state, it's literally in the 2nd amendment. You want to focus on how _you _define state, but you don't want to argue the core disagreement; which is that a free state should be able to regulate itself in matters of militia without top-down tyranny telling people what weapons they can and cannot own.


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## WeedZ (Dec 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I don't care how you define state, it's literally in the 2nd amendment. You want to focus on how _you _define state, but you don't want to argue the core disagreement; which is that a free state should be able to regulate itself in matters of militia without top-down tyranny telling people what weapons they can and cannot own.


I know you desperately want that to be true, to the point you would sacrifice your integrity and reputation. But sadly, its not true, its not written anywhere in the bill of rights. Especially not in 2a.


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## mrdude (Dec 19, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> I know you desperately want that to be true, to the point you would sacrifice your integrity and reputation. But sadly, its not true, its not written anywhere in the bill of rights. Especially not in 2a.


Luckily there's proper lawyers in the Supreme Court that can interpret the constitution, so you can leave that to them and not worry about it as it seems to be beyond your skill level. Also this thread seems to have drifted away from it's topic, isn't it your job as a mod to keep thread drifting to a minimum, maybe you should worry about that more and leave the law to the lawyers.


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## Hanafuda (Dec 19, 2022)

"well-regulated" in 1700's English meant well equipped, well tuned, well calibrated. It was a phrase most commonly used in reference to clocks. I work on antique alarm clocks when I've got lots of free time (like during Covid) and can tell you that "regulate" is still used as a verb by clock people even now to mean getting a clock back into tune. A modern equivalent phrase would be "like a well-oiled machine," but there weren't many machines around to oil in the 1700's so they said "well-regulated." Its use in the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with regulations imposed by a bureaucratic administrative agency. The USA didn't have any such agencies at its founding, and there's nothing in the Constitution about them.

Not on-topic for this thread, but several pages is enough.


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## tabzer (Dec 19, 2022)

WeedZ said:


> I know you desperately want that to be true, to the point you would sacrifice your integrity and reputation. But sadly, its not true, its not written anywhere in the bill of rights. Especially not in 2a.



Your point of failure is that you somehow think that the bill of rights is a bill of rights for the federal government, and not for the free state.

It's plainly communicated that a healthy militia relies on people being free to arm themselves, and that it is for a free state.  Free state, not a static form of government, is recognition between participants--not a decree, by politicians, on what qualifies them.  The bill of rights explicitly exists to limit jurisdiction over the rights of a free people from these entities, and what kind of overstepping jeopardizes that.  You toss out the whole point of the bill of rights existing so that you can pretend it's an instruction manual on how to be an effective tyranny.  I know that I'd like to convince you, but if you needed convincing to begin with, maybe you are already too broken.

Maybe you should smoke some pot and think introspectively for a change.  You have the freedom to do so.  The fact you don't is such a waste.


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## Luke94 (Dec 19, 2022)

Here’s my own voice impressions parody of Gadget Hackwrench Russian Cultists.


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