# Wii U, PS3 and X360 won't be getting Unreal Engine 4



## Deleted_171835 (Mar 29, 2013)

> Epic has been unclear about the Wii U's support for UE4 in the past, with Epic co-founder Mark Rein telling Videogamer that Epic doesn't intend to bring the engine to Wii U, but that "if a customer decides they want to port an Unreal Engine 4 game to Wii U, they could." I asked Rein, "Will UE4 run on the Wii U?"
> 
> "Hahaha no." Rein said, with expert comedic timing. The room erupted with laughter. As the laughs died down, Rein continued: "I mean, sorry, it's not really a correct answer. We're not… we have Unreal Engine 3 for the Wii U. Right? And Unreal Engine 3 is powering all kinds of amazing games, still lots of games are being made with Unreal Engine 3. We announced today about a new Unreal Engine 3 license. Unreal Engine 3 doesn't disappear because of Unreal Engine 4. But our goal for Unreal Engine 4 console-wise is next-gen consoles. That's really what our energies are focused on. If you want to make a Wii U game, we have Unreal Engine 3, and it's powering some of the best games on the Wii U already.
> 
> "Nothing controversial, guys," he jokingly chided.


 
http://kotaku.com/the-wii-u-wont-be..._source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

With sluggish sales, lack of third-party support and now no UE4 support, the Wii U situation truly is unreal.


UPDATE:
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...-support-for-wii-u-ps3-or-xbox-360-says-rein/

XBOX360 and PS3 won't be getting it either.

In an update to this recent development, CVG said: no fucking shit.


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## Chary (Mar 29, 2013)

Boo-Hoo. I am sobbing sadly about the horrors of no UE4. /sarcasm

The Wii-U might be in trouble right now, but can you honestly say that other consoles haven't started out bad, only to come back with a bang?


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## Rydian (Mar 29, 2013)

Is UE4 relying on some later API version or something?


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## GameWinner (Mar 29, 2013)

Ouch.
Nintendo better do something otherwise this thing will be the next Gamecube once PS4 and NextBox arrive.


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## Eerpow (Mar 29, 2013)

I thought we knew this already, that the Wii U could run it but that they just wouldn't support it themselves.


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## BenRK (Mar 29, 2013)

People at Epic acting like assh[family friendly filter activated]? That has never happened before!


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## Gahars (Mar 29, 2013)

Chary said:


> Boo-Hoo. I am sobbing sadly about the horrors of no UE4. /sarcasm


 
Well, if UE 4 becomes an industry standard the same way UE 3 has, then yeah, that's kind of a horrific proposition for the Wii U's library.

So yeah, this is some pretty bad news - it looks like the Wii U has a serious engine stall.


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## KingVamp (Mar 29, 2013)

They can still port it, it seems. So, isn't more like, not getting it officially?


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## The Catboy (Mar 29, 2013)

I'd take time to defend the Wii U, but I have hardly even touched mine since I got it and every game I wanted won't be coming out any time soon.
I would have to say that I really have buyers remorse and should have waited on this one. It's not a bad system, but it's not what I expected it to be.


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## pokefloote (Mar 29, 2013)

I love how they say "No, it won't be on Wii U, we are planning it for Next-Gen consoles only."


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## Hielkenator (Mar 29, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Well, if UE 4 becomes an industry standard the same way UE 3 has, then yeah, that's kind of a horrific proposition for the Wii U's library.
> 
> So yeah, this is some pretty bad news - it looks like the Wii U has a serious engine stall.


What, only for the coming 4 to 5 years, no big deal.
Just look at the UE4 games, lol...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4
3 games in total so far!


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> What, only for the coming 4 to 5 years, no big deal.


4 to 5 years being the entire lifespan of the Wii U?


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> What, only for the coming 4 to 5 years, no big deal.


 
Because not getting industry standard tech for 4-5 years is no big problem.

Don't say "Well the Wii didn't need it" because right now the Wii U is in an entirely different boat. If the Wii U really wants to cater to "core gamers" it's missing out a ton on UE4.


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## Rydian (Mar 29, 2013)

pokefloote said:


> I love how they say "No, it won't be on Wii U, we are planning it for Next-Gen consoles only."


Well, it's definitely not "next-gen" hardware...


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## Hielkenator (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Because not getting industry standard tech for 4-5 years is no big problem.
> 
> Don't say "Well the Wii didn't need it" because right now the Wii U is in an entirely different boat. If the Wii U really wants to cater to "core gamers" it's missing out a ton on UE4.


For the announced 3 unreal engine4 games? Not a ton in my book.



soulx said:


> 4 to 5 years being the entire lifespan of the Wii U?


yes, just like all other Nintendo homeconsoles


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> For the announced 3 unreal engine4 games? Not a ton in my book.


 
It's not like UE3 came out with a thousand games. It became the industry standard over time.


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## KingVamp (Mar 29, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> I'd take time to defend the Wii U, but I have hardly even touched mine since I got it and every game I wanted won't be coming out any time soon.
> I would have to say that I really have buyers remorse and should have waited on this one. It's not a bad system, but it's not what I expected it to be.


Wait, so you didn't want any, not even one game that out now?


I honestly didn't think it's really Nintendo's fault. There are too many, for a lack of a better term, jerks for higher ups.


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## chyyran (Mar 29, 2013)

WiiU is console Vita?

Anyways, this isn't especially new news, I thought we've known about it for some time already, that WiiU won't officially get UE4.


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## Hielkenator (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It's not like UE3 came out with a thousand games. It became the industry standard over time.


Not all games run from the UE. Granted most shooters do.
It nice to work with also but, still has it boundries without heavy modification of the developers to do something original.


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## The Catboy (Mar 29, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Wait, so you didn't want any, not even one game that out now?
> 
> 
> I honestly didn't think it's really Nintendo fault. There are too many,for a lack of a better term, jerks for higher ups.


Oh there are games like New Super Mario U and Zombi U that I enjoyed, but that being said I feel like the system was a bit of a bait n switch. We were promised one thing and got another thing instead.
If anything Nintendo needs to be more aggressive on 3rd parties. Right now it seems like every 3rd party developer is just crapping on their system and Nintendo just isn't doing anything about it. If they don't want this to be like Wii (weak system with mostly shovelware) then they need to step up their game.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> Not all games run from the UE. Granted most shooters do.


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3

Justa lot of fucking games run on UE.


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## Hielkenator (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
> 
> Justa lot of fucking games run on UE.


Oh fucking games...that's right I suppose.
Still these are not from UE4.
No one knows how UE4 will sell to devs or what will be developed.
I'm not worried look what shi'nen can do just on Wiiware( ! ) games in regards to graphics.
http://www.shinen.com/games/ 
Also this thread: http://gbatemp.net/threads/monster-hunter-3-ultimate.345404/#post-4596460
I can tell if a game is UE a mile away, it's a shame what some devs do to the multi use engine in regards to what is possible. I've pulled of very interesting things myself with the engine. It can do a lot more than those brown FPS games if you put your mind to it and not think about cashing in fast by sending subliminal messages through ULTRA violent games, making the 'young' hungry for blood violence and war, creating a generation of hate. No wonder the Wiiu sells badly.
+ these are not shooters thank god. Peace.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 29, 2013)

Ahhh, this nice. Sometimes it's nice to just sit back and read all of the "nintendoomed!" type comments this forum makes, it's good for a laugh. Stay smart Gbatemp, stay smart.


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## Hielkenator (Mar 29, 2013)

Nintendo=Friends and Family=Love=Fun=What it all comes down to in the end.


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## The Catboy (Mar 29, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Ahhh, this nice. Sometimes it's nice to just sit back and read all of the "nintendoomed!" type comments this forum makes, it's good for a laugh. Stay smart Gbatemp, stay smart.


I don't believe Nintendo is doomed or any of that shit, in fact I have always loved Nintendo and their products. My real concern is that the Wii U was promised to have heavy focus on 3rd Party and Indie games, but it doesn't seem like that. It seems more like Nintendo is just letting devs walk all over their system and not doing anything about it.
They can't allow this to happen again, obviously it's not going to kill them, but it's a real concern to me about the future of 3rd party games on the Wii U. I really hope Nintendo starts stepping up their game and starts pushing for more 3rd party games because if they don't, it's going to be the Wii all over again. Amazing 1st party games, shit 3rd party games.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 29, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> I don't believe Nintendo is doomed or any of that shit, in fact I have always loved Nintendo and their products. My real concern is that the Wii U was promised to have heavy focus on 3rd Party and Indie games, but it doesn't seem like that. It seems more like Nintendo is just letting devs walk all over their system and not doing anything about it.
> They can't allow this to happen again, obviously it's not going to kill them, but it's a real concern to me about the future of 3rd party games on the Wii U. I really hope Nintendo starts stepping up their game and starts pushing for more 3rd party games because if they don't, it's going to be the Wii all over again. Amazing 1st party games, shit 3rd party games.


 
Uh.... there are great third party games out and coming out...


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> It can do a lot more than those brown FPS games if you put your mind to it and not think about cashing in fast by sending subliminal messages through ULTRA violent games, making the 'young' hungry for blood violence and war, creating a generation of hate. No wonder the Wiiu sells badly.
> + these are not shooters thank god. Peace.


 
Funny considering the most popular FPS games on the market don't run on Unreal Engine. Call of Duty runs on its own engine, Battlefield runs on Frostbyte, Halo runs on its own engine, Counterstrike and TF2 run on Source, shall I continue on?

If you're talking about "brown shooters" like Bioshock then yes, they run on Unreal Engine.

EDIT: Let's not forget the most war promoting Unreal Engine game though:







But tl;dr your post:


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## J-Machine (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
> 
> Justa lot of fucking games run on UE.


not gonna lie, 7 games outta that list were games I had enjoyed and 9 were games I actually heard of looked like a lot of shooters and the occasional fighting/action game. I think the wii U will survive not getting the new version of this engine since we won't really see the fruits of that tree till a good 5-6 years into the next gen.


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

Maybe if some of these companies made good enough games they wouldn't feel threatened by competing with "Nintendo" games.


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## heartgold (Mar 29, 2013)

Haha, the devs lol'ed when the question was asked. 

Wii U.... is errr dead for core gamers. It will sell around gamecube level to its fans.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Maybe if some of these companies made good enough games they wouldn't feel threatened by competing with "Nintendo" games.


 
Most Unreal Engine games I've played are better than Nintendo games.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 29, 2013)

heartgold said:


> Haha, the devs lol'ed when the question was asked.
> 
> Wii U.... is errr dead for core gamers. It will sell around gamecube level to its fans.


 
Honestly, I was waiting for that dumbass narutofan to come in and make the dumbest post of the thread, but I think you just beat him. Now he's gonna come in dumber than ever and out-dumb you.

Dis gon' be gud


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## The Catboy (Mar 29, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Uh.... there are great third party games out and coming out...


It's a concern of mine, maybe once more games get flowing and the system starts selling better my concerns can be put to rest and I will be very optimistic about the system I bought.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Sorry ShadowSoldier but like the Wii U has _nothing_ coming out in terms of third parties. Like its got some multiplats but why would I buy a Wii U for games I can already get on my current console?

It's basically a Gamecube. Not necessarily a bad system but it won't do well outside of the Nintendo fanbase. You'll buy it for Nintendo games and a few other things, not a whole lot else.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Sorry ShadowSoldier but like the Wii U has _nothing_ coming out in terms of third parties. Like its got some multiplats but why would I buy a Wii U for games I can already get on my current console?
> 
> It's basically a Gamecube. Not necessarily a bad system but it won't do well outside of the Nintendo fanbase. You'll buy it for Nintendo games and a few other things, not a whole lot else.


 
my response:



Spoiler






ShadowSoldier said:


> Honestly, I was waiting for that dumbass narutofan to come in and make the dumbest post of the thread, but I think you just beat him. Now he's gonna come in dumber than ever and out-dumb you.
> 
> Dis gon' be gud


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> my response:


 
No offense but you're literally in flat out denial. "No guys, the Wii U is getting games, trust me! Don't listen to the tons of games not coming out for it! Ignore Saints Row IV, GTA V, Battlefield 4, even recent titles like Bioshock Infinite, it's getting third party support!"

But whatever helps you sleep at night man.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 29, 2013)

I have to wonder with all the shootings and the government wanting to crack down on "video game violence" how this will harm the industry and somewhat by extension engines like this one. 

Could end up being a moot point if any more shootings happen soon.  

Also Nintendo is doomed!!!! Heheheheh


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> No offense but you're literally in flat out denial. "No guys, the Wii U is getting games, trust me! Don't listen to the tons of games not coming out for it! Ignore Saints Row IV, GTA V, Battlefield 4, even recent titles like Bioshock Infinite, it's getting third party support!"
> 
> But whatever helps you sleep at night man.


 
Look at that hate wagon go. Wheeeee!


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## Rizsparky (Mar 29, 2013)

I though unreal engine 4 was extremely scalable anyway?


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Halo runs on its own engine


I could've sworn Halo ran on Havok, didn't it? At least Halo 4 does...


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> I could've sworn Halo ran on Havok, didn't it? At least Halo 4 does...


 
Havok is only a physics engine, not a game engine.



ShadowSoldier said:


> Look at that hate wagon go. Wheeeee!


 
Well I don't hate the Wii U at all, I'm just saying there's no point denying its faults. There's a thin line between optimism and ignorance.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> No offense but you're literally in flat out denial. "No guys, the Wii U is getting games, trust me! Don't listen to the tons of games not coming out for it! Ignore Saints Row IV, GTA V, Battlefield 4, even recent titles like Bioshock Infinite, it's getting third party support!"
> 
> But whatever helps you sleep at night man.


 
If only Nintendo had one of the largest publishers on the planet with some of the best selling games of all time to release games only for its system!!! 

Wait doesn't Nintendo also publish some sort games too, I could have sworn I heard of some games they make somewhere.... Hehehehe *troll face*


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## Deleted member 473940 (Mar 29, 2013)

Just skimmed through the list of UE3 games. WOW a variety of genres and really well executed stuff.

All these Wii U is doomed comments are silly though. Although the Wii U is pissing me off to death.. in terms of its optimization and hardware both. Even its OS is slow as fuck and I wouldn't think that its purely due to bad optimization.. but also shitty hardware.

But if UE4 really isnt coming to the WiiU, it will miss out on a LOT of good games. Just look at the list of UE3 games again o.o


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## Fluto (Mar 29, 2013)

Ummm, An April Fool's joke? ...maybe? ...hopefully...


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> If only Nintendo had one of the largest publishers on the planet with some of the best selling games of all time to release games only for its system!!!
> 
> Wait doesn't Nintendo also publish some sort games too, I could have sworn I heard of some games they make somewhere.... Hehehehe *troll face*


 
Yeah, Nintendo will do just fine with their own games! The N64 and Gamecube showed that!

The Wii sold because it was interesting and inventive tech. But that fad has kinda passed and obviously the userbase isn't finding the Wii U to be worth the investment.


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## Gahars (Mar 29, 2013)

I forgot that any criticism equals "fanboy hatred" now.

Stay classy, folks.


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Most Unreal Engine games I've played are better than Nintendo games.


 
Except that numbers prove that to be -extremely- false. Not only that.... Developers themselves have stated that they stay away from Nintendo's consoles so that they don't have to compete with Nintendo games.

So my response... Make better games... quit yer bitching.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Havok is only a physics engine, not a game engine.


I figured there was some detail like that I was missing.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Except that numbers prove that to be -extremely- false. Not only that.... Developers themselves have stated that they stay away from Nintendo's consoles so that they don't have to compete with Nintendo games.
> 
> So my response... Make better games... quit yer bitching.


 
Oh, what numbers? Critic numbers? Well there goes that argument down the tubes.

I'd like to see this quote on "Developers are scared of the big mighty Nintendo".


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## Deleted member 473940 (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Except that numbers prove that to be -extremely- false. Not only that.... Developers themselves have stated that they stay away from Nintendo's consoles so that they don't have to compete with Nintendo games.
> 
> So my response... Make better games... quit yer bitching.


source?


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

ShawnTRods said:


> source?


I was gonna ask the same thing.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 29, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> my response:


What? No mention of Bayonetta 2? 

Why wait for third party support if you can just make those games yourself? 


Ahem...on the topic, though...this isn't good. Yes, there are only 3 games using it coming out right now. But this number will only grow. And it will only take one or two huge successes (say, the bioshock of UE4) to make nintendo really wish they kept their relations with Epic on a better level. C'mon...being laughed at? That's pretty bad press. Especially since nintendo at one point made some points about increasing third party support. It's hard to keep THAT seriously, now, right?


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 29, 2013)

The Wii U isn't a Gamecube because that actually got _some_ support. At this point, N642 is more apt.



Guild McCommunist said:


> Most Unreal Engine games I've played are better than Nintendo games.


Guild, I agree with you for the most-part but now you're just trolling here.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Yeah, Nintendo will do just fine with their own games! The N64 and Gamecube showed that!
> 
> The Wii sold because it was interesting and inventive tech. But that fad has kinda passed and obviously the userbase isn't finding the Wii U to be worth the investment.


 
I am pretty sure Nintendo made a pretty good profit during the N64 and GC days, not to mention the total ownership on the portable market at the time. 

Nintendo does need some more games for the Wii-U and a price drop, where those games come from doesn't really matter at the end of the day. If EA says we will not make anything for the Wii-U that leaves an entire market open to a new developer who might make some innovative games that are not forced to stick to the same old tired formula's for fear of pissing off the fan base. 

I almost hope the larger 3rd party devs do stay off the Wii-U, I would like some fresh talent and fresh idea's.  (By almost, I would like to play GTAV on the Wii-U but I also own a PS3 so either way I will get to play it.) 

Like a forest the old must die to let the sun reach the new saplings.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Mar 29, 2013)

I dont wanna make this sound like a "trollish post".. but Nintendo console to me = Pokemon + Mario lol (that's actually enough to keep their sells good?)

Only reason I bought DS was pokemon, only reason I bought Wii was Pokemon(was hoping for a better Pokemon RPG) and Mario Kart, same goes for Gamecube. Not just me, I know BUNCH of people who only go for Pokemon. It doesn't mean I don't buy other games for Nintendo consoles but I just stated the purpose of Nintendo consoles to me.

With the Wii U, I had high hopes... still do! Its not the end of the world. Hopefully I can be more excited about other(THIRD PARTY) games and not just wait on mario and pogeymanz.

Most ports so far are far from anything I would consider "next-gen". Haven't touched the Wii U well over a month now. 360 still the way to go for me .
The couple of games that I would want for the Wii U is also available for 3DS.. such as monster hunter and I just went for the 3DS version.


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

Okay... Here are some numbers and links.

Obviously there is some margin of error.. And yes I know... VGcharts lol.... but I couldn't find another set of numbers.

Super Mario Galaxy - Super Mario Galaxy (5.04 million)
New Super Mario Brothers Wii - New Super Mario Bros. Wii (8.86 million)

Source - http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/08/nintendo-in-february-mario-galaxy-2-passes-5-million-wii-and-3/

And the most popular of the UR3 engine games I could think of *please feel free to prove me wrong*

Mass Effect 3 - Global Total as of 16th Mar 2013 (units): *2.70m*
Source - http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44118/mass-effect-3/Comments/


Also http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...es_surpass_combined_totals_on_ios_and_android

So it's even beating out other consoles on the Indie Market as well.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Okay... Here are some numbers and links.
> 
> Obviously there is some margin of error.. And yes I know... VGcharts lol.... but I couldn't find another set of numbers.
> 
> ...


_"Gears of War_ sold over three million copies in just ten weeks and was the fastest-selling video game of 2006 as well as the second-most played game over Xbox Live during 2007. It currently stands as the 5th best selling Xbox 360 game of all time."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gears_of_War


2 sold even better. And there is 3 too...


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

Fastest selling rarely means most selling.

Most of the PS3 and Xbox games sell a -shit ton- in the first three or four days... Then stall out. Now... there are exceptions.


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## Gahars (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Fastest selling rarely means most selling.


 
While that can be true...



> As of November 7, 2008, the game has sold 5.88 million copies worldwide.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Fastest trolling rarely means most trolling.


Fix'd. Don't know why I made that edit, but I did...


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

Gahars said:


> While that can be true...


 
Yes... But how many copies total.. as that is the real answer.


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## Gahars (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Yes... But how many copies total.. as that is the real answer.


 
...5.88 million as of 5 years ago? You know, the number in the quote.

Also, I think this is a misleading argument. The point isn't that individual Unreal Engine games sell the best - it's that there are tons of Unreal Engine games, and when their sales are all combined, they make up a significant part of the market overall.

Individual Nintendo games may sell well, but Nintendo still loses out by not having that wide selection of titles.


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

So a game released in 2006...

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/843/gears-of-war/

Was still outsold by a "Inferior" game in 2010.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35084/super-mario-galaxy-2/


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> So a game released in 2006...
> 
> http://www.vgchartz.com/game/843/gears-of-war/
> 
> ...


What part of...


Gahars said:


> ...5.88 million as of 5 years ago? You know, the number in the quote.
> 
> Also, I think this is a misleading argument. The point isn't that individual Unreal Engine games sell the best - it's that there are tons of Unreal Engine games, and when their sales are all combined, they make up a significant part of the market overall.
> 
> Individual Nintendo games may sell well, but Nintendo still loses out by not having that wide selection of titles.


...did you not get?


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## mightymuffy (Mar 29, 2013)

They also showed off the fancy UE4 Skyrim wannabe again, this time apparently running in real time on the PS4. Me want! But then, is this news gonna have me ripping my Wii U out from under my telly and clodding it into the nearest bin? Of course not, the Wii U, just like the Wii, will make for a great little secondary machine alongside the, er, 'PS4-361'?? I don't give 2 shits about it not managing to run UE4 ['officially'] - *for me* if we still get the top quality Ninty titles I know and love it'll still be a rip-roaring success! Like the Wii was. And the Gamecube - which I'll always love to bits, don't give a toss how poorly it did!
Pikmin 3's coming. Wind Waker HD, new 3D Mario, new Zelda, Mario Kart, etc etc.... I can do without an UE4 game on my Wii U thank you very much.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> So a game released in 2006...
> 
> http://www.vgchartz.com/game/843/gears-of-war/
> 
> ...


Briefly go through the list of UE3 games that you recognize and see the sales figures. Just from the ones you recognize 
To counter that, HOW MANY nintendo titles are out there?(that sell well?)


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

I get it.. But the point remains.. The UR engine does not inherently make better games.

And the 3rd Parties are scared because they can't make games to match Nintendo.... so in many cases they literally try everything in their power to damage the company/system.


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## Gahars (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> The UR engine does not inherently make better games.


 
Is anyone arguing this?

The closest that comes to mind was Guild's post, and he wasn't saying they were better games _because_ they're on the Unreal Engine - he was saying they were better _and_ on the Unreal Engine. There's a world of difference.



> And the 3rd Parties are scared because they can't make games to match Nintendo.... so in many cases they literally try everything in their power to damage the company/system.


 
lol no


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

Tigran said:


> I get it.. But the point remains.. The UR engine does not inherently make better games.


Your point? I don't recall anyone here claiming otherwise.


Tigran said:


> And the 3rd Parties are scared because they can't make games to match Nintendo.... so in many cases they literally try everything in their power to damage the company/system.


Still waiting for a source.


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## 2ndApex (Mar 29, 2013)

Nintendo is doomed.


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## Eerpow (Mar 29, 2013)

Only thing that could happen now is if Nintendo stepped in and put in some cash to secure UE4 support, if they truly are concerned about third party support this time like they've been saying they are. It's not like it's an engine the Wii u can't run in the first place, which was the main complaint many devs had with the Wii.

Again how is this news? We've known this a looong time already.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 29, 2013)

_*Someone says a Nintendo console is underpowered*_



...this is going to turn Golden eventually, shall watch the thread.


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## p1ngpong (Mar 29, 2013)

This thread is a sad little child playground argument that makes me ashamed to be a member of this forum.


Also fuck all the UnrealE haters, CHAINSAW BAYONET MUDAFUCKA YEAHHHHHHHH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## emigre (Mar 29, 2013)

Me thinks criticism of Nintendo can harm an individual's mental state and transform them into an irrational mess.


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## Janthran (Mar 29, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> It's not a bad system, but it's not what I expected it to be.


lol'd


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## Qtis (Mar 29, 2013)

While I can understand the idea of "This UE4 engine doesn't matter for Nintendo", it's not something I'd like to hear as a customer. Sure Nintendo makes and publishes fantastic games (just like everyone else in the console business), but this will surely leave some games out on the long run. If UE3 is something to go along, I'd hate to miss Arkham Asylum/City, Borderlands, Mass Effect, Dishonored, Spec Ops and a bunch of other games on a console. Especially if multiplat games happened to run on UE4..


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## Minox (Mar 29, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> I could've sworn Halo ran on Havok, didn't it? At least Halo 4 does...


Havok Engine is a physics engine, not a graphics engine.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 29, 2013)

Minox said:


> Havok Engine is a physics engine, not a graphics engine.


Guild already ninja'd you. Thanks though.


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## Tigran (Mar 29, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> Your point? I don't recall anyone here claiming otherwise.
> 
> Still waiting for a source.


 
I would honestly love to find it again.. But considering you cannot do a google search with "Third partie" and "Nintendo" without 20 million "Nintendo going Third Party" responses.. chances are I'll never find the source.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 29, 2013)

So Epic is not porting over UE4 themselves because they are focusing on (what they define as) next-gen systems, but that doesn't mean Wii U can't run it, because it can, just like PS3 and 360 can as well, not to mention smart phone of all things. That is what's great about it being scalable.

So, if Nintendo really wanted UE4 on the Wii U, couldn't they get themselves licensed and port it over themselves, and then other developers that are properly licensed with Epic, use Nintendo's port of it for their games so they wouldn't have to port it themselves?


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 29, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well I don't hate the Wii U at all, I'm just saying there's no point denying its faults. There's a thin line between optimism and ignorance.


 
You? Don't hate the WiiU? Oh no no no no Guild. Silly silly silly Guild. You flat out hate Nintendo. You can say that you don't hate them and that you like them and all that stuff all you want, but you have a loooong history of your posts saying otherwise. Any chance you get to bash or mock or just outright say "Well, Nintendo's fucked", you take it.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> You? Don't hate the WiiU? Oh no no no no Guild. Silly silly silly Guild. You flat out hate Nintendo. You can say that you don't hate them and that you like them and all that stuff all you want, but you have a loooong history of your posts saying otherwise. Any chance you get to bash or mock or just outright say "Well, Nintendo's fucked", you take it.


In all fairness, he does have that history. Funny how when the Wii U isn't doing so hot, he says "no point in ignoring its flaws" (or something to that effect in this thread), but whenever the same was said about the Vita he's been "OMG I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT!!!"

That said, Guild hasn't done a lot of that lately, so he's on my bro list.


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## Gahars (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> You? Don't hate the WiiU? Oh no no no no Guild. Silly silly silly Guild. You flat out hate Nintendo. You can say that you don't hate them and that you like them and all that stuff all you want, but you have a loooong history of your posts saying otherwise. Any chance you get to bash or mock or just outright say "Well, Nintendo's fucked", you take it.


 
Dude, seriously?

I get it, you put a good chunk of change into a console that's struggling at the moment. It's a crappy situation, but you've gone full blown McCarthy. Blindly accusing anyone critical of Nintendo of being a hater and lashing out like this isn't a healthy response; it's irrational, desperate, and just a little bit sad. Come on, you're better than that.

Guild's more critical than most, sure, but he still owned the DS, owns a Wii, and has mentioned that he's considering the 3DS. He still gushes about Super Mario Galaxy whenever it gets brought up. I don't know, maybe there's room for nuance here.

Just a thought.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

www.computerandvideogames.com/398618/no-unreal-engine-4-support-for-wii-u-ps3-or-xbox-360-says-rein/

So you all stop being morons, it's not coming to the Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii U.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> In all fairness, he does have that history. Funny how when the Wii U isn't doing so hot, he says "no point in ignoring its flaws" (or something to that effect in this thread, but whenever the same was said about the Vita he's been "OMG I DONT WANT TO HEAR IT!!!"
> 
> That said, Guild hasn't done a lot of that lately, so he's on my bro list.


 
I'm not saying Guild is a bad guy. I'm saying that with his post history, I don't understand how anyone can take him seriously anymore. As you said with the vita, when someone bashes it or Soulx points something out about the Vita sucking or something, he goes full on defense, shields up, brick wall built, moat made, canons ready to fire to protect the Vita, and basically mocks people who point out the Vita is failing and that it doesn't really have any games.

To be honest, this forum and a lot of it's members just seem one sided to me. They think "oh! NINTENDO DOESN'T HAVE THE BEST HARDWARE! THEY CAN'T COMPETE! THEY'RE DOOMED! THEY SHOULD GO THE WAY OF SEGA! THEY DON'T HAVE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT! THEY NEED TO GO MATURE!"

But they've never been about having the best hardware. The only console they made that had third party support was the NES and SNES. They make decent strengthed (apparently that's not a word?? I can't think of another one) consoles that isn't meant to outperform Sony's or Microsofts, but instead to just play games. You think Nintendo gives a shit about console wars? Pft, no. They just care about making a profit, and so far, they've been doing that with every console.

Hell all the talk (Yes, Guild has said this a lot) about Nintendo needing to go Mature is just dumb. People grew up with Nintendo and they want Nintendo to grow up with them. That's just dumb. Nintendo's never going to do that. Nintendo has been, and always be, Family oriented.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I'm not saying Guild is a bad guy. I'm saying that with his post history, I don't understand how anyone can take him seriously anymore. As you said with the vita, when someone bashes it or Soulx points something out about the Vita sucking or something, he goes full on defense, shields up, brick wall built, moat made, canons ready to fire to protect the Vita, and basically mocks people who point out the Vita is failing and that it doesn't really have any games.
> 
> To be honest, this forum and a lot of it's members just seem one sided to me. They think "oh! NINTENDO DOESN'T HAVE THE BEST HARDWARE! THEY CAN'T COMPETE! THEY'RE DOOMED! THEY SHOULD GO THE WAY OF SEGA! THEY DON'T HAVE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT! THEY NEED TO GO MATURE!"
> 
> ...


 
I'd like to meet this fictional me. I'll defend the Vita where it's being unjustly attacked but I won't go into flatout denial that it's struggling or accuse anyone who thinks otherwise of being a "Sony hater".

I'm not saying Nintendo needs to get Mature, I'm saying they need to _support_ Mature. They're fine with their E-T rated games, but when they're getting snubbed by third parties who do produce mature games, it's an issue. I think Nintendo games are fine but buying a console that'll play a couple of Nintendo games and probably gather dust? Hell no. It's not like Nintendo was always this way, the Gamecube had its raft of mature titles and was, out of all their consoles, the most multiplat friendly.

Like this whole image of me being a brainless "Nintendo hater" is just completely false. I've owned Nintendo systems, I've ENJOYED Nintendo systems, and I'm giving legitimate complaints and concerns about the Wii U. You can't just discredit my supported opinion with "You just hate Nintendo!" and walk away. Facts are showing the Wii U is selling poorly and it's not getting software. That's my basis for an opinion.


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## Sefi (Mar 30, 2013)

Many people that grew up with the NES and SNES as kids are now craving Nintendo to "go mature" as people put it.  They then doom Nintendo for not doing so.  Meanwhile Nintendo sits back and collects profits, continuing making more affordable hardware then their competition, coupled with their own game franchises that you can't play on anything else.  It seems to still be working for them, I don't see why they would want to change things unless they suddenly have huge drops in sales.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I'd like to meet this fictional me. I'll defend the Vita where it's being unjustly attacked but I won't go into flatout denial that it's struggling or accuse anyone who thinks otherwise of being a "Sony hater".
> 
> I'm not saying Nintendo needs to get Mature, I'm saying they need to _support_ Mature. They're fine with their E-T rated games, but when they're getting snubbed by third parties who do produce mature games, it's an issue. I think Nintendo games are fine but buying a console that'll play a couple of Nintendo games and probably gather dust? Hell no. It's not like Nintendo was always this way, the Gamecube had its raft of mature titles and was, out of all their consoles, the most multiplat friendly.
> 
> Like this whole image of me being a brainless "Nintendo hater" is just completely false. I've owned Nintendo systems, I've ENJOYED Nintendo systems, and I'm giving legitimate complaints and concerns about the Wii U. You can't just discredit my supported opinion with "You just hate Nintendo!" and walk away. Facts are showing the Wii U is selling poorly and it's not getting software. That's my basis for an opinion.


Uh...

How is this different than the PS3 was at launch?

Facts are showing that the WiiU has more games and sold more than the PS3 did at launch, and look what happened with the PS3, it sold like 75 million. It took a while but it got there. And now only what.. 7 months into the WiiU's lifecycle, it's okay to write it off and say that it's failing as a console and will be left behind? Makes sense.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Uh...
> 
> How is this different than the PS3 was at launch?
> 
> Facts are showing that the WiiU has more games and sold more than the PS3 did at launch, and look what happened with the PS3, it sold like 75 million. It took a while but it got there. And now only what.. 7 months into the WiiU's lifecycle, it's okay to write it off and say that it's failing as a console and will be left behind? Makes sense.


 
Well yeah, but the PS3 was also getting extensive multiplat support and wasn't behind the curve techwise.

Price was really the big PS3 issue. It's not so much the big Wii U issue. That's the difference.


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## The Milkman (Mar 30, 2013)

Stop trying to be Gahars! You're not punny enough!

Oh and also, #nintendoomed

Also why is everyone attacking Guild? Hes not a Nintendo hater, hes just a cynical Sony fan. There's a difference.


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## Seraph (Mar 30, 2013)

It's been a long while since I've been back at GBAtemp so my memory is pretty hazy. But I seem to remember similar situations/arguments when the 3DS was first released vs the Vita, this is where ShadowSoldier is coming from...

You were saying the Nintendo/Wii U did need it if they didn't want to miss out on the "core gamer" demographic. It would help if UE4 did support Wii U, but that definitely won't help its current sales situation. Or the problem of targeting this "core gamer". Many games will continues to use UE3 for couple/few years as there is still a lot of potential shown from things like the Samaritan demo. It doesn't "need" UE4. It needs/needed more support from developers now/soon which is a problem that has little to do with this engine.

I just wanted to point out how awful the PS4 demo of Elemental was compared to the PC. It seems they still need more time to be able to optimize this engine for consoles anyway.


----------



## The Catboy (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> www.computerandvideogames.com/398618/no-unreal-engine-4-support-for-wii-u-ps3-or-xbox-360-says-rein/
> 
> So you all stop being morons, it's not coming to the Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii U.


So kotaku did their normal thing and left out other details like always?

Can we please make a rule not use kotaku as a source because they always do this.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well yeah, but the PS3 was also getting extensive multiplat support and wasn't behind the curve techwise.
> 
> Price was really the big PS3 issue. It's not so much the big Wii U issue. That's the difference.


 
Huh, well I didn't know Need for Speed, Mass Effect, Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Tekken, Assassin's Creed 3 and 4, Arkham City, Black Ops 2, Darksiders 2, Deus Ex, Disney Infinity, Epic Mickey 2, Fifa, Injustice, Just Dance 4, Lego Batman 2, Madden NFL 13, NBA 2K13, Ninja Gaiden 3, Resident Evil Revelations, Scribblenauts Unlimited, Skylanders Giants, Sonic and AllStars Racing Transformed, Splinter Cell won't be on the WiiU...


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## weavile001 (Mar 30, 2013)

Well, I guess the wii u won't be getting most 3rd party games at all, just the old fifa/cod, etc.
at least it will get good games like injustice, bayonetta 2 and others.

Well, I don't care for the support or anything, if it is a videogame, then i like it, just like the vitaeople are saying that it was a big flop, but it has very good games and that's what makes me buy the console.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Huh, well I didn't know Need for Speed, Mass Effect, Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Tekken, Assassin's Creed 3 and 4, Arkham City, Black Ops 2, Darksiders 2, Deus Ex, Disney Infinity, Epic Mickey 2, Fifa, Injustice, Just Dance 4, Lego Batman 2, Madden NFL 13, NBA 2K13, Ninja Gaiden 3, Resident Evil Revelations, Scribblenauts Unlimited, Skylanders Giants, Sonic and AllStars Racing Transformed, Splinter Cell won't be on the WiiU...


 
How about Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, GTA V, Saints Row IV, Battlefield 4, and a dozen future releases?

It's getting some third party support but it's not nearly as close as the Xbox 360 or PS3 currently.


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## The Milkman (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Huh, well I didn't know Need for Speed, Mass Effect, Rayman Legends, *Watch Dogs*, Tekken, Assassin's Creed 3 and 4, Arkham City, Black Ops 2, Darksiders 2,* Deus Ex*, Disney Infinity, Epic Mickey 2, Fifa, *Injustice*, Just Dance 4, Lego Batman 2, Madden NFL 13, NBA 2K13, Ninja Gaiden 3,* Resident Evil Revelations*, Scribblenauts Unlimited, Skylanders Giants, Sonic and AllStars Racing Transformed, *Splinter Cell* won't be on the WiiU...


 
You got a source for these buddy? I havent heard ANYTHING about WatchDogs being on Wii U.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Well yeah, but the PS3 was also getting extensive multiplat support and wasn't behind the curve techwise.
> 
> Price was really the big PS3 issue. It's not so much the big Wii U issue. That's the difference.


 
I would call the PS3 one of gaming's biggest failures of all time, no not the hardware, no not the software, the profits. I don't think Sony ever made a dime from the machine over all. I would speculate that the PS3 actually put Sony several billion dollars in the red...  

Hard to call something that makes no profit for a company a success.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> How about Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, GTA V, Saints Row IV, Battlefield 4, and a dozen future releases?
> 
> It's getting some third party support but it's not nearly as close as the Xbox 360 or PS3 currently.


 
ps3 didn't get support either for the longest time. It took a while before it started seeing games. And no shit it's not nearly as close. When console sales rise, which they will, then it will.



The Milkman said:


> You got a source for these buddy? I havent heard ANYTHING about WatchDogs being on Wii U.


 
Ubisoft said.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> I would call the PS3 one of gaming's biggest failures of all time, no not the hardware, no not the software, the profits. I don't think Sony ever made a dime from the machine over all. I would speculate that the PS3 actually put Sony several billion dollars in the red...
> 
> Hard to call something that makes no profit for a company a success.


 
UHHHHHHH.

The console (post price cut/selling at a loss) began turning a profit in 2010.


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## Gahars (Mar 30, 2013)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> I would call the PS3 one of gaming's biggest failures of all time, no not the hardware, no not the software, the profits. I don't think Sony ever made a dime from the machine over all. I would speculate that the PS3 actually put Sony several billion dollars in the red...
> 
> Hard to call something that makes no profit for a company a success.


 
Hard to call baseless speculation anything but, well, baseless speculation.

The PS3 certainly had its woes, but that's quite a leap to come to without any evidence whatsoever.


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> UHHHHHHH.
> 
> The console (post price cut/selling at a loss) began turning a profit in 2010.


 
Per console sold they started to make a profit in 2010... I don't think Sony turned a profit on those initial machines that cost $800+ to make and had to be reduced down to like 400 before they started shifting.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Per console sold they started to make a profit in 2010... I don't think Sony turned a profit on those initial machines that cost $800+ to make and had to be reduced down to like 400 before they started shifting.


 
Can you please cite this? Because if Sony wasn't turning a profit on the PS3 they'd have *stopped making the damn thing. *Profit also incorporates software sales.


----------



## The Catboy (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> www.computerandvideogames.com/398618/no-unreal-engine-4-support-for-wii-u-ps3-or-xbox-360-says-rein/
> 
> So you all stop being morons, it's not coming to the Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii U.


I am quoting Guild's post again because I would like to point out that there is some kotaku trolling going on here and like most of their articles they left out details to get attention and start conflict like this.
I suggest this thread be updated to include these details as well so we can stop this confusion.

I would also like to mention that when it comes down to kotaku to take their information with a grain of salt, they commonly leave out details to gain attention and often misquote people. This is common with that site and really should bring question to any news posted from them.


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Can you please cite this? Because if Sony wasn't turning a profit on the PS3 they'd have *stopped making the damn thing. *Profit also incorporates software sales.


 
Oh gladly, but do I really need too? Considering BluRay players where going for over $100 dollars more than the PS3 at launch does it take a rocket scientist to figure out they bled tons of cash?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10448137-17.html

Didn't you say it started to make a profit in 2010? Looks like Cnet said they where still taking an 18 dollar hit per console in 2010, and that was on the lite model. The old phat model was way more expensive?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/127906/article.html

In 2006 when the system launched it was just bleeding money for the company.... Horrendous amounts of cash per system sold.

So yeah there are some links and its not hard to prove....

Edit: I wonder how much software I would have to buy before a launch PS3 becomes profitable... If the games cost nothing to make and nothing to print I would need to buy at least 6 of them.... Even saying they have a 100% mark up I would still need to buy 12... That's just painful to do the math on.

So pretty much all of the PS3 phats would need to have rather large libraries of software just to break even. That's millions of consoles times how much software? The math racks up to billions pretty fast.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> You got a source for these buddy? I havent heard ANYTHING about WatchDogs being on Wii U.


 
Ohh.. just saw you bolded games,

Watch Dogs Ubisoft confirmed.
Injustice comes out next month,
Deus Ex square enix confirmed is the directors cut or whatever coming out in.. may?
Capcom said in January Resident Evil is coming to the WiiU
Ubisoft released a press statement saying Watch Dogs is coming to the WiiU along with the other consoles,
And Ubisoft also said Splinter Cell is coming to the WiiU as well in August


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Mar 30, 2013)

The Catboy said:


> I am quoting Guild's post again because I would like to point out that there is some kotaku trolling going on here and like most of their articles they left out details to get attention and start conflict like this.I suggest this thread be updated to include these details as well so we can stop this confusion.
> I would also like to mention that when it comes down to kotaku to take their information with a grain of salt, they commonly leave out details to gain attention and often misquote people. This is common with that site and really should bring question to any news posted from them.


No one expected UE4 on the PS360, only the Wii U was in question. I don't see any wrongdoing on Kotaku's part.


----------



## The Catboy (Mar 30, 2013)

soulx said:


> No one expected UE4 on the PS360, only the Wii U was in question. I don't see any wrongdoing on Kotaku's part.


Leaving out details is an issue. Even if no one expected it, it should still be brought up nonetheless, instead they only mentioned the Wii U and left it at that.
If you are going to report the news, give all the details not part of them.


----------



## chyyran (Mar 30, 2013)

To be fair, the WiiU is underpowered compared to the PS4. Perhaps not as much as the Wii was to the other 7th generation consoles, but still by a large enough margin to be noticeably outclassed, perhaps in a few years when compared to the other 2 8th gens (Excluding Android 8th gens such as OUYA or GameStick, ofc). Though, if, which I assume they will in the future, port UE4 to iOS, I see no reason as to why Epic, or a third-party won't on the WiiU if the demand is high enough.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

Ron said:


> To be fair, the WiiU is underpowered compared to the PS4. Perhaps not as much as the Wii was to the other 7th generation consoles, but still by a large enough margin to be noticeably outclassed, perhaps in a few years when compared to the other 2 8th gens (Excluding Android 8th gens such as OUYA or GameStick, ofc). Though, if, which I assume they will in the future, port UE4 to iOS, I see no reason as to why Epic, or a third-party won't on the WiiU if the demand is high enough.


 
What's funny, in that Kotaku article, it says "The Wii U uses hardware that's more or less as powerful as the current Xbox 360 or PS3." Which is dumb because with that sentence alone, they give off the impression that Unreal Engine 4 is coming to the PS3/360.


----------



## The Milkman (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Ohh.. just saw you bolded games,
> 
> Watch Dogs Ubisoft confirmed.
> Injustice comes out next month,
> ...


 
Ok, just wondering.



Ron said:


> To be fair, the WiiU is underpowered compared to the PS4. Perhaps not as much as the Wii was to the other 7th generation consoles, but still by a large enough margin to be noticeably outclassed, perhaps in a few years when compared to the other 2 8th gens (Excluding Android 8th gens such as OUYA or GameStick, ofc). Though, if, which I assume they will in the future, port UE4 to iOS, I see no reason as to why Epic, or a third-party won't on the WiiU if the demand is high enough.


 
iOS can't handle Unreal. iOS could barely run Unity mobile back when it first came out.


----------



## chyyran (Mar 30, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> What's funny, in that Kotaku article, it says "The Wii U uses hardware that's more or less as powerful as the current Xbox 360 or PS3." Which is dumb because with that sentence alone, they give off the impression that Unreal Engine 4 is coming to the PS3/360.


 
The WiiU is a beast compared to the PS360. Though, funny you mentioned the Kotaku article, because I wasn't even referring to that in my post. 



The Milkman said:


> iOS cant handle Unreal. iOS could barely run Unity mobile back when it first came out.


This is technically UE3. It runs fine on my iPod touch 4
I assume they'll port over UE4 to more powerful iOS devices in the future.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> iOS cant handle Unreal. iOS could barely run Unity mobile back when it first came out.


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade


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## Deleted_171835 (Mar 30, 2013)

Ron said:


> The WiiU is a beast compared to the PS360.


Exaggeration of the century. The Wii U is marginally more powerful than the PS360 and is able to produce small improvements in areas such as textures and framerate but isn't anywhere close to the so-called "next-gen leap".


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## Gahars (Mar 30, 2013)

Since this is related, I'll just post it here...

The Wii U won't support Frostbite 3 either.


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## GameWinner (Mar 30, 2013)

So the Wii U won't be getting games like Dragon Age 3 and the next Mass Effect?
N64-2.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade


 
That game actually made me go "Whoa that's a phone game???"  

Amazing what they where able to pull off with that. 

Hat's off to the developers on that one!


----------



## chyyran (Mar 30, 2013)

soulx said:


> Exaggeration of the century. The Wii U is marginally more powerful than the PS360 and is able to produce small improvements in areas such as textures and framerate but isn't anywhere close to the so-called "next-gen leap".


 
I'll admit that it's an exaggeration, but still, the WiiU is more powerful than the PS360 by quite a large margin. Perhaps not a "next-gen leap" margin, however, it is still, quite a bit, and even then, console generations have always depended on their release window, and not by specs alone.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Mar 30, 2013)

Ron said:


> I'll admit that it's an exaggeration, but still, the WiiU is more powerful than the PS360 by quite a large margin. Perhaps not a "next-gen leap" margin, however, it is still, quite a bit, and even then, console generations have always depended on their release window, and not by specs alone.


 
I'd say if the PS3 and 360 were 7th generation systems and the PS4 and 720 are 8th generation systems, all based on power, then Wii U would be around 7.5 generation. More powerful than 7th generation, but not powerful enough to be called 8th generation. Kinda reminds me of the Dreamcast only in that regard.


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## chyyran (Mar 30, 2013)

DiscostewSM said:


> I'd say if the PS3 and 360 were 7th generation systems and the PS4 and 720 are 8th generation systems, all based on power, then Wii U would be around 7.5 generation. More powerful than 7th generation, but not powerful enough to be called 8th generation. Kinda reminds me of the Dreamcast only in that regard.


 
Console Generations were always based on release window. Therefore, the Dreamcast is a 6th gen console, along with the PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube, and the Wii is a 7th generation console, along with the PS3 and 360, despite the difference in power. By this logic, the current OUYA is an 8th gen console, despite not listed at Wikipedia, and so is the WiiU and PS4. While a new generation almost certainly means an increase from power from the last generation, this doesn't necessarily have to be the case. For more information, see History of video games on Wikipedia. There is no 7.5th gen.


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## The Milkman (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade


 
Ohhh yeah, I forgot about that. But don't you think Unreal 4 is pushing it a bit?


----------



## Hielkenator (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Funny considering the most popular FPS games on the market don't run on Unreal Engine. Call of Duty runs on its own engine, Battlefield runs on Frostbyte, Halo runs on its own engine, Counterstrike and TF2 run on Source, shall I continue on?
> 
> If you're talking about "brown shooters" like Bioshock then yes, they run on Unreal Engine.
> 
> ...


 
At least mention the proper engine, sheesh. No reason to get offensive...
You just said what I said, no problem for future Wiiu games.
Oh you forgot to mention the Dead engine ( deadspace ) just look what that achieved on Wii.
Also the avalanche engine is promising.
Infinity's ward engine does what it does I suppose since what? COD2, lol?
Anvil engine is also nice, Assasin's creed for instance.
Sega internal engine ( Sega & Sonic allstars racing did a good job in the graphics departementon Wii)
Sega Hedgehog engine
Capcoms MT Framework
Xenogear 1-2 engine, proven to do things on Wii nobody thought possible and since Monolith soft in First party now....
Cryengine? Anyone?
And then there's Nintendo's own engine. We all know that those games are packed with innovation for years.
I mean MarioGalaxy had more gameplay elements in 1 level than most games had in a complete game.
Also in the end it still comes down to what the developer can do.
Games that were from those engine's were a lot more fun to play IMO.
It's a bit easy to say a system fails because a NOT EVEN IMPLEMENTED(no games atm) engine, with all other options wide open.
Bit narrow minded in my book.
Currently Microsoft and Activision took interest in the engine, also it's rumoured EPIC games is on the market for sale. It's nowhere near the standard engine for game development as you put it up to be. A bit biased for a reporter would'nt you say?

But that might be just my cup of tea, Hell I even like the POPCAP engine....
So I do NOT see any trouble like I said from the beginning, in an unbiased way.
(Except for war promoting shooters and alike, war propaganda, just speed courses in hate and killing for the not so minded, blood hungry, indoctrinated by money hungry corps.among us. No matter what engine. These are not realistic games but, make money of it and 'amusing' them with the worst thing on the planet, WAR. HOW original... )* is your Member ID mccommunist for a reason?* You know it also stand for a 'classless' hierarchy?

Just something to think about:

To achieve a communist utopia:
*Phase 1*: *A revolution must take place in order to overthrow the existing government*. Marx emphasized the need for total destruction of the existing system in order to move on to Phase 2.
*Phase 2*:* A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat*. During this phase, the new government exerts *absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment and even marriage.* Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place.
*Phase 3*: Achievement of utopia. *This phase has never been attained because it requires that all non-communists be destroyed in order for the Communist Party to achieve supreme equality*. In a Marxist utopia, everyone would happily share property and wealth, free from the restrictions that class-based systems require. The government would control all means of production so that the one-class system would remain constant, with no possibility of any middle class citizens rising back to the top.

Starting to see your urge for violent games, and ways of thought.
There's more to the world you live in, me and others.
Also a nice way to back yourself up, if those are your ways of life.
Wich you are entitled to by the way, just makes it a lot easier to communicate with you for other people. Some people are more 'open' you know....and like to distinguish themselves.


----------



## emigre (Mar 30, 2013)

I've just read the entirety of thus thread and this is one pathetic thread. And that Nintendo fail hard.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Mar 30, 2013)

oh no the wii u won't be getting boring, generic run and gun shooters that will use this engine yeah no LOSS there!


----------



## Hielkenator (Mar 30, 2013)

emigre said:


> I've just read the entirety of thus thread and this is one pathetic thread. And that Nintendo fail hard.


I thanked you for your contribution.
I mean a lot a valid points you made, at least for people that have the same standards as you.
A true  example. 
I reckon you love your Sony products?


----------



## kisamesama (Mar 30, 2013)

no support for UE4 and frosbite 3 for wii u... looks like wii u ending up as  the wii with sub par third party games just as I feared....


----------



## Hielkenator (Mar 30, 2013)

kisamesama said:


> no support for UE4 and frosbite 3 for wii u... looks like wii u ending up as the wii with sub par third party games just as I feared....


Nothing points to this conclusion you make.

See it the other way, imagine ALL other systems won't get a single NINTENDO game,
And EPIC is owned by Microsoft and Sony. Did that ease you mind?

Difference is, the first statement is fact.


----------



## Nah3DS (Mar 30, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> oh no the wii u won't be getting boring, generic run and gun shooters that will use this engine yeah no LOSS there!


my thoughts here 


ShadowSoldier said:


> To be honest, this forum and a lot of it's members just seem one sided to me. They think "oh! NINTENDO DOESN'T HAVE THE BEST HARDWARE! THEY CAN'T COMPETE! THEY'RE DOOMED!* THEY SHOULD GO THE WAY OF SEGA!* THEY DON'T HAVE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT! THEY NEED TO GO MATURE!"


funny how, probably, most of them never played a Sega console


----------



## kisamesama (Mar 30, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> Nothing points to this conclusion you make.
> 
> See it the other way, imagine ALL other systems won't get a single NINTENDO game,
> And EPIC is owned by Microsoft. Did that ease you mind?


 
same goes for ps exclusives and xbox exclusives... nintendo won't get them.. major difference though is third parties .... wii u has got only hd remakes so far.... and the future does not looks good.. sales are low, hesitation by the big third parties to publish their games on wii u.. if nothing is done ... wii u could end up like gamecube or will just continue to create gimmick tablet motion games aiming for kids


I have a wii..enjoyed it for one year with wii sports and wii fit but then eventually stopped playing it due to lack of games... I only do pc gaming now


----------



## TheDarkSeed (Mar 30, 2013)

There may be a change of plans somewhere down the line...


----------



## emigre (Mar 30, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> I thanked you for your contribution.
> I mean a lot a valid points you made, at least for people that have the same standards as you.
> A true example.
> I reckon you love your Sony products?


 
Don't hate the player hate the game. Or at least in the case of the Wii U, hate the no gaems.


----------



## FAST6191 (Mar 30, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> oh no the wii u won't be getting boring, generic run and gun shooters that will use this engine yeah no LOSS there!



Much as I dislike leaning on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3

Had we still been on unreal 2 then maybe that might have carried some weight but unreal 3 was used by an awful lot of interesting titles, a fact epic is anything but oblivious of, and everything points to unreal 4 going even further down that path to say nothing of games coming the other way to meet it.


----------



## raulpica (Mar 30, 2013)

This thread is complete crap and I'll lock it soon if people don't understand that there's no Nintendo hate in here, but just the blatant fact that Epic Megagames is too freaking lazy to port Unreal Engine 4 to something that isn't x86 (I'll remember the audience that the PC, the PS4 and probably the 720 too are x86) - it's just the most cost effective thing to do.

If the WiiU sells, it'll get ported to it. Or if iOS devices get a down-scaled version of it, the WiiU should be getting the down-scaled version.

But NOT before the massive profiting iOS version comes out. Either that happens, or the WiiU needs to reach 25 millions sold by next month (which WON'T happen).


----------



## Issac (Mar 30, 2013)

If they are smart, they make UE4 "backwards compatible" so that it's relatively easy to port UE4 games to UE3 while nerfing some of the more advanced functions that UE4 brings. I think one large part of the new engine would be some new innovative multithreaded gpu operatings that the Wii U, Xbox 360 and PS3 gpu just can't handle. Just like some graphics cards just don't have support for OpenGL 4...


----------



## Seraph (Mar 30, 2013)

raulpica said:


> This thread is complete crap and I'll lock it soon if people don't understand that there's no Nintendo hate in here, but just the blatant fact that Epic Megagames is too freaking lazy to port Unreal Engine 4 to something that isn't x86 (I'll remember the audience that the PC, the PS4 and probably the 720 too are x86) - it's just the most cost effective thing to do.
> 
> If the WiiU sells, it'll get ported to it. Or if iOS devices get a down-scaled version of it, the WiiU should be getting the down-scaled version.
> 
> But NOT before the massive profiting iOS version comes out. Either that happens, or the WiiU needs to reach 25 millions sold by next month (which WON'T happen).


The doom and gloom posts may not be Nintendo hate, but they sure as hell comes off as it. So better lock this thread now.

However, I've already said UE4 is irrelevant to people's current reasons for doom and gloom. You think this engine will save the Wii U from its current state? It'll be a good few years before UE4 is the standard and devs take full advantage of it. Hell, they couldn't even optimize the PS4 Elemental demo before showing it off and UE3 still has a lot of potential (see Samaritan demo). So can you blame people for accusing others of "Nintendo hate" when this new engine is pretty unrelated to the Wii U's problems? Why bring up not supporting Frostbite 3 when the bigger/real problem is likely Nintendo's current relationship with EA?


----------



## Fear Zoa (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm trying as hard as I can but I just can't manage to care. Anyone who buys a Nintendo console expecting good 3rd party support is an idiot. I mean yea it would be nice but its not what a lot of people buy the system for.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> At least mention the proper engine, sheesh. No reason to get offensive...
> You just said what I said, no problem for future Wiiu games.
> Oh you forgot to mention the Dead engine ( deadspace ) just look what that achieved on Wii.
> Also the avalanche engine is promising.
> ...


 
My point is that SO MANY games run on Unreal Engine that not having it is a seriously bad thing. Yeah, it might get some non-Unreal games, but to say it'll be getting just as much support as its competition when it's not running Unreal Engine is just flat out wrong. You're just trying too hard to promote the Unreal Engine as just "brown shooters" when in reality it runs everything from Arkham Asylum to Bioshock to Alice: Madness Returns to Mass Effect to Lollipop Chainsaw.

Also I just threw down the complete opposite of a "war promoting propaganda shooter" so take off the tin foil hat.


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 30, 2013)

I really don't see what the huge fuss is all about, none of the last generation consoles is getting an Unreal Engine 4 port since they simply can't handle it and whether you like it or not, the WiiU is based off last generation hardware and a larger amount of RAM isn't going to help here. The WiiU is only _slightly_ more powerful than the PS3/360, that's the only reason why it's not getting it.


----------



## shakirmoledina (Mar 30, 2013)

All the more of a reason for people to shift to the IMHO better engine called Unity4. It's free for indies and has a great community.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Well, it's definitely not "next-gen" hardware...


It's better than the current gen though.


----------



## Rydian (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> It's better than the current gen though.


Yeah, but if it lacks things that the engine needs that other newer consoles will have, it's sort of a killer.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Yeah, but if it lacks things that the engine needs that other newer consoles will have, it's sort of a killer.


I wish they had been clearer on that.  Does it really lack the ability, or do they just not want to work on making it compatible with a console that can run games fine with UE3?


----------



## Rizsparky (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> It's better than the current gen though.


Marginally, not enough for the masses to jump ship from the PS360.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> I wish they had been clearer on that. Does it really lack the ability, or do they just not want to work on making it compatible with a console that can run games fine with UE3?


 
Honestly it'd just be such a dumbed down version of UE4 you might as well use UE3.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Honestly it'd just be such a dumbed down version of UE4 you might as well use UE3.


Unless the PS4/720 are going to be a lot more expensive than the Wii U, they can't be that much more powerful.  I can see the PS4 doing that (what did the PS3 cost originally, $600 or something?), but not the next Xbox.


----------



## Rydian (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Unless the PS4/720 are going to be a lot more expensive than the Wii U, they can't be that much more powerful.  I can see the PS4 doing that (what did the PS3 cost originally, $600 or something?), but not the next Xbox.


If it's not about power then it's about features, in which case I agree with Guild.

To use an extreme example, if you use Word but are limited to no formatting or markup at all in the end result, you might as well just fire up Notepad, it'll be faster and easier.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

kisamesama said:


> wii u has got only hd remakes so far
> 
> I have a wii..enjoyed it for one year with wii sports and wii fit but then eventually stopped playing it due to lack of games... I only do pc gaming now


 
Wait. WiiU only has HD remakes? lol

And you only had WiiSports and WiiFit and complained about there being a lack of games on the console? lol


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

Rydian said:


> If it's not about power then it's about features, in which case I agree with Guild.
> 
> To use an extreme example, if you use Word but are limited to no formatting or markup at all in the end result, you might as well just fire up Notepad, it'll be faster and easier.


What features is the Wii U lacking that UE4 needs?


----------



## Rydian (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> What features is the Wii U lacking that UE4 needs?


If we knew that, we wouldn't be complaining that no details were given. 

However it's not out of the question.  Newer parts include newer technologies that eventually become required.  CPU instruction sets were one historical example, but as far as GPUs go some things require a certain API level in order to use certain functions, etc.


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Unless the PS4/720 are going to be a lot more expensive than the Wii U, they can't be that much more powerful. I can see the PS4 doing that (what did the PS3 cost originally, $600 or something?), but not the next Xbox.


 
Relatively reliable rumors (alliteration!) put the PS4 at $400 for standard ant $500 for premium.

The Nextbox... we're still totally in the dark with it but rumors do peg it to be pretty powerful last time I checked.

The gap between the launch Xbox 360 and the Wii was what, $150? Narrow that down to $100 for the PS4 to Wii U and it's not farfetched, especially with Sony's recent business practice of selling at a loss.

Although price-to-power ratios aren't exactly what they used to be with Sony's selling at a loss strategy.


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## kristianity77 (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> What features is the Wii U lacking that UE4 needs?


 
Hardware from more recently than the past 6 or 7 years I'm guessing


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## weavile001 (Mar 30, 2013)

kisamesama said:


> I have a wii..enjoyed it for one year with wii sports and wii fit but then eventually stopped playing it due to lack of games... I only do pc gaming now


the consoles that have no games are the ps vita and the wii u, not the wii.


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## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

Hardware is not features, software is.


kristianity77 said:


> Hardware from more recently than the past 6 or 7 years I'm guessing


You got a source for the hardware age?


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## kristianity77 (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Hardware is not features, software is.
> You got a source for the hardware age?


 
Nope!  Just going off what I've seen.  The hardware in the Wii U is just slightly better than a console like the 360, which is hardware from 2005.  Basically, the Wii U is too under powered.  It worked for the Wii for obvious reasons, it will send the Wii U to the bargain bin by the time the actual next gen consoles come out.  If you're going to bring a console out 7 years after the 360 (less for the ps3), you've got to at least make it look like it performs better than a console available at half the price, which, of course, it doesn't (or hasn't yet, 6 months into its life).


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Hardware is not features, software is.
> You got a source for the hardware age?


 
It'd be best to ignore kristianity, literally. You'd get a better conversation talking to an empty chair.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

kristianity77 said:


> Nope!  Just going off what I've seen.  The hardware in the Wii U is just slightly better than a console like the 360, which is hardware from 2005.  Basically, the Wii U is too under powered.  It worked for the Wii for obvious reasons, it will send the Wii U to the bargain bin by the time the actual next gen consoles come out.  If you're going to bring a console out 7 years after the 360 (less for the ps3), you've got to at least make it look like it performs better than a console available at half the price, which, of course, it doesn't (or hasn't yet, 6 months into its life).


Lol, what do you mean it hasn't preformed better? Games run smoother and look better. It's also the first console to run 1080p natively. Besides, you are comparing launch games to those at the end of a generation, which is hardly fair. Compare current Wii U titles to launch titles of the PS3/360 if you want something accurate.

I'll probably take ShadowSoldier's advice.


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## kristianity77 (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Lol, what do you mean it hasn't preformed better? Games run smoother and look better. It's also the first console to run 1080p natively. Besides, you are comparing launch games to those at the end of a generation, which is hardly fair. Compare current Wii U titles to launch titles of the PS3/360 if you want something accurate.
> 
> I'll probably take ShadowSoldier's advice.


 
Ahh I stand corrected then, I honestly wasn't aware that the Wii U ran games natively in 1080p. So yes, I'll apologise for my lack of knowledge on that. Out of interest though, which games for the Wii U do run natively in 1080P?


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

kristianity77 said:


> Ahh I stand corrected then, I honestly wasn't aware that the Wii U ran games natively in 1080p. So yes, I'll apologise for my lack of knowledge on that. Out of interest though, which games for the Wii U do run natively in 1080P?


I don't think that any games do yet, but it has the ability.  I'm not too surprised, most everything has been ports so far.

I don't doubt that the Wii U will fall behind in this next generation, but I seriously doubt it will be like the Wii vs 360/PS3.


----------



## DSGamer64 (Mar 30, 2013)

Of course the PS3 and 360 aren't getting games that use UE4, they are old as fuck systems with welfare hardware, even a 400 dollar computer would probably run Unreal Engine 4. Considering the engine hasn't even been used in any games yet, we don't know what the true requirements for it are.


----------



## heartgold (Mar 30, 2013)

I just saw the PS4 vs PC running unreal 4 demo, oh boy does the PS4 struggle against a PC. So much details missing and performance issues. It's okay, but a high end PC is taking more advantage of unreal 4 engine. I don't know what the issue is with the PS4, it has good specs too.

In saying that, Epic said a dev could port unreal 4 engine to Wii U, but they are not going to. It's possible I suppose but will take some time, effort and a lot more missing features than the PS4


----------



## zanfire (Mar 30, 2013)

People are crazy not to expect this, we all knew it was just a slightly better than what we have now. IF you bought this thing for ANYTHING but Nintendo exclusives, you're sort of stupid IMHO.

It's the only reason I got it, MH3U, smash bros, mario, zelda, metroid..ect

I have a PC and eventually ps4 for everything else.


----------



## Rydian (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Hardware is not features, software is.


Uh, DirectX says differently?


----------



## Eerpow (Mar 30, 2013)

Nothing will get done until there's a market for it. As of now developing for it is just a waste of money as a third party developer. I doubt they know on what level the system could run it on. Seriously have Nintendo been hibernating since launch? They're too confident everything will work out eventually which it won't until we see some games from them.
I'm not planning to get a Wii U for the third party support (who did?), if there are third party games I'll probably get some sure, but it's not what I bought the system for. However the games we know Nintendo are making for it won't be released until who knows when, which is why their main market are holding out or ignoring them for the time being. Seriously, I would have bought one already if Pikmin 3, wonderful101 etc. were on it launch day.

Nintendo need to back up their statements about "third party support on Wii U and how the situation is different" asap to have a chance on the market. 1 year headstart? More like 1 year too early leading to a lot of negative talk. It wouldn't have hurt holding out a little more saving money and having additional devtime for both 123 parties, I mean working devkits have been around for only half a year and studios like platinum games are working their ass off to make something happen. They still would have the 3DS to make profits off during that time, probably making their efforts on that system even better.

No offense but in the consumers eyes they do a terrible job managing their company.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Mar 30, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Uh, DirectX says differently?


The folks at Unity recently confirmed that the Wii U GPU has DirectX 10.1 level features. Given how scalable the engine is supposed to be, it's certainly capable of supporting it.


----------



## Mantis41 (Mar 30, 2013)




----------



## Rydian (Mar 30, 2013)

soulx said:


> The folks at Unity recently confirmed that the Wii U GPU has DirectX 10.1 level features. Given how scalable the engine is supposed to be, it's certainly capable of supporting it.


Not mentioning DirectX as what's limiting (as we don't know what the limit is, human or otherwise), I'm mentioning DirectX as just one example that support is not all software.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Mar 30, 2013)

soulx said:


> The folks at Unity recently confirmed that the Wii U GPU has DirectX 10.1 level features. Given how scalable the engine is supposed to be, it's certainly capable of supporting it.


DirectX 11 actually.

Looks like Nintendo was supporting Unity Engine anyway:
Wii U's GPGPU Squashes Xbox 360, PS3; Capable Of DirectX 11 Equivalent Graphics


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Mar 30, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> DirectX 11 actually.
> 
> Looks like Nintendo was supporting Unity Engine anyway:
> Wii U's GPGPU Squashes Xbox 360, PS3; Capable Of DirectX 11 Equivalent Graphics


If you read the actual quotes from the article, he doesn't actually specify "DirectX 11". It's DX10.






http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20130327_593473.html


----------



## DiscostewSM (Mar 30, 2013)

> Gaming Blend: While the Wii U doesn't specifically use DirectX functionality, will the Unity Engine for the Wii U allow for DirectX 11 equivalent functionality in regards to shaders, soft and self shadowing as well as potential scalability for shader 5.0 (or higher)?
> 
> Helgason: Yeah. We'll do a – we'll make it potentially possible to do.


 
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Interview-Why-Unity-Engine-Good-Fit-Wii-U-47173.html


----------



## Foxi4 (Mar 30, 2013)

shakirmoledina said:


> All the more of a reason for people to shift to the IMHO better engine called Unity4. It's free for indies and has a great community.


How is Unity 4 in any way better than Unreal Engine 4? Just because it's Indie?

Okay.


----------



## Rydian (Mar 30, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> it's Indie?


lolwut


----------



## Guild McCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> How is Unity 4 in any way better than Unreal Engine 4? Just because it's Indie?
> 
> Okay.


 
Because Unreal Engine 4 isn't on the Wii U and everyone wants to believe that the Wii U is somehow still getting superior support.

So let the fapping over Unity, which everyone previously discredited as a shitty "casual mobile engine", begin.


----------



## Mantis41 (Mar 30, 2013)

UE4 should look nicer than Unity but at the end of the day won't it come just down to the artists working on the particular game or is Unity actual missing a lot of features that will result in loss of eye candy in game?

Edit: 
I think I found the answer to my question


> Look at the feature videos and besides that it's got dynamic occlusion culling, dynamic global illumination, deferred detail, and a lot of integrated special effects like subsurface-scattering, physical GPU particle systems, fully automatic PhysX destruction, just to name a few things Unity 5 and 6 won't even have.


----------



## shakirmoledina (Mar 30, 2013)

occlusion culling is there, global illumination is there, particle systems are there, etc.
its free and bossy over who gets it.

its much easier and there are so many tutorials concerning it. android v ios all over again. ios is sharper, more stable and faster but which is in more demand?
it's not always about features.


----------



## Eerpow (Mar 30, 2013)

Yeah as we said already, they aren't supporting the Wii U because of *cough* sales *cough* and the possibility that the Wii U third party support ends up being like the Wii.



> *"You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can! If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen." - Mark Rein *


 
Link


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Mar 31, 2013)

Guys, just stop. The "Unity indie shitty casual engine" are some "ShitGBAtempSays" worthy comments right there.


----------



## spotanjo3 (Mar 31, 2013)

Wait a minute... Dont listen to stupid comments about it.. Read here which released today:


*Rein says you can do Unreal Engine 4 on Wii U, but Epic isn't*



> *"You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can! If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen." - Mark Rein*


 
Look:


```
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/29/mark-rein-interview-gdc-2013/
```


----------



## xwatchmanx (Mar 31, 2013)

bearmon2010 said:


> Wait a minute... Dont listen to stupid comments about it.. Read here which released today:
> 
> 
> *Rein says you can do Unreal Engine 4 on Wii U, but Epic isn't*
> ...


Well we already knew that. The problem is they aren't going to do it themselves. :\


----------



## Joe88 (Mar 31, 2013)

and that it actually requires 3rd party developers


----------



## KingVamp (Mar 31, 2013)

zanfire said:


> IF you bought this thing for ANYTHING but Nintendo exclusives, you're sort of stupid IMHO.It's the only reason I got it, MH3U, smash bros, mario, zelda, metroid..ectI have a PC and eventually ps4 for everything else.


Say what?

Assuming you meant didn't only buy it for Nintendo games, that makes no sense.


----------



## zanfire (Mar 31, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Say what?
> 
> Assuming you meant didn't only buy it for Nintendo games, that makes no sense.


meaning if you bough the console thinking it was gonna be your lead platform for 3rd party, you're an absolute fool (if you have any sense of the gaming world); Nintendo has always had piss poor third party on the home consoles and we all knew this wasn't a true next gen system. That would mean all the games made for ps4/xbox720 would either have to be down ported or would skip the WiiU entirely. If anything the wii itself should have taught people that lesson.

People call it the "Nintendo Box" for a reason, it's only really there for the great first party games, then it goes back in the closet.


----------



## xwatchmanx (Mar 31, 2013)

"Always" had poor 3rd party support? NES and SNES say "hi."

You were fucking kidding, right? I mean, yeah, Nintendo having poor 3rd party support has been a trend since the N64, no denying that. But to say that Nintendo has "always" had poor 3rd party support and was only about 1st partygames is just objectively false.


----------



## Rydian (Mar 31, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> Edit:
> I think I found the answer to my question


Of those, many are helpful for speedy development (dynamic global illumination saves a lot of light work in certain scenes, etc.), and others like subsurface scattering are mainly for nice graphical effects and wouldn't be required for a game to run on a technical level.  They're not things that would exactly be killers in porting a game, this is stuff designers have to deal with anyways when porting games around varying systems.

But that's where something useful about Unity comes in, sharing is encouraged (and they even have a sharing center).  For example DOC can be added via this plugin, subsurface scattering can be added as well though most implementation appear to use DX10 because realtime subsurface scattering just became feasible with the major API changes there, etc.

Just an example how lack of native support in an engine isn't always a killer, it just means a bit more work on the devs.



xwatchmanx said:


> "Always" had poor 3rd party support? NES and SNES say "hi."


To be fair, that's like saying Ford is world-changing and mentioning the assembly line when talking about getting a modern car of theirs versus another manufacturer's.

It doesn't actually affect people getting their modern products.  That was years ago.


----------



## ShadowSoldier (Mar 31, 2013)

So ... you know, out of curiosity. Am I the only one who thinks this thread has overstayed it's welcome?


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## kisamesama (Mar 31, 2013)

weavile001 said:


> the consoles that have no games are the ps vita and the wii u, not the wii.


lack of hardcore games sorry...



ShadowSoldier said:


> Wait. WiiU only has HD remakes? lol
> 
> And you only had WiiSports and WiiFit and complained about there being a lack of games on the console? lol


 
yup only hd remakes and again i am talking about third parties (not nintendo first party games like mario)

nopes I have like 150 titles and I end up only playing wiisports and wiifit from time to time with friends.. and oh I forgot new super mario  bros; that's a cool game but the other games are fine for the first 2-5 hours and then it gets damn boring and most games you have to admit are for kids


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## Mantis41 (Mar 31, 2013)

kisamesama said:


> lack of hardcore games sorry...


The Wii has some hardcore games. They just look as if they have been ported from 1998.


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## kisamesama (Mar 31, 2013)

Mantis41 said:


> The Wii has some hardcore games. They just look as if they have been ported from 1998.


haha exactly!! a lot of people say buy wii/wii u just for the nintendo titles! Yeah the nintendo exclusives are great but is it wrong for me to expect better third party support? xbox and ps3 also have their exclusives but that does not mean they are not getting quality third party games


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 31, 2013)

kisamesama said:


> yup only hd remakes and again i am talking about third parties (not nintendo first party games like mario)
> 
> nopes I have like 150 titles and I end up only playing wiisports and wiifit from time to time with friends.. and oh I forgot new super mario  bros; that's a cool game but the other games are fine for the first 2-5 hours and then it gets damn boring and most games you have to admit are for kids


 
What are you talking about HD remakes?!?! There's what... Wind Waker being the only one?


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## T3GZdev (Mar 31, 2013)

From what I read the wii u will not get unreal engine 4. Though it is possible to run they're (Epic) just not making it. However others could make their game with u4 if they are willing to put in the legwork.
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/30/unreal-engine-4-not-designed-to-work-on-wii-u/


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## Foxi4 (Mar 31, 2013)

t377y000 said:


> From what I read the wii u will not get unreal engine 4. Though it is possible to run they're (Epic) just not making it. However others could make their game with u4 if they are willing to put in the legwork.
> http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/30/unreal-engine-4-not-designed-to-work-on-wii-u/


Sure, you can _castrate_ anything _if you want to_ as a developer - all you gotta do is cut some of the more demanding features.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 31, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Sure, you can _castrate_ anything _if you want to_ as a developer - all you gotta do is cut some of the more demanding features.


NintenDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...


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## ForteGospel (Mar 31, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Sure, you can _castrate_ anything _if you want to_ as a developer - all you gotta do is cut some of the more demanding features.


and you are basing that you have to cut demanding features because....?


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## Qtis (Mar 31, 2013)

ForteGospel said:


> and you are basing that you have to cut demanding features because....?


Because Google could tell the same thing in a matter of seconds. Epic said it themselves that it is entirely possible to make the UE4 work on the WiiU. Epic isn't the one saying no. They're not going to make the engine work on the WiiU themselves since UE3 is already at the bottom of quite a few of the best WiiU third party games.

Source, Source, etc.

Also the situation is in no way different to the Wii situation. Epic didn't make a Wii version of the UE3, but it doesn't mean it's not possible. It's just that Epic didn't want to dedicate resources into it if the console didn't meet their expectations.

Source


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## ForteGospel (Mar 31, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Because Google could tell the same thing in a matter of seconds. Epic said it themselves that it is entirely possible to make the UE4 work on the WiiU. Epic isn't the one saying no. They're not going to make the engine work on the WiiU themselves since UE3 is already at the bottom of quite a few of the best WiiU third party games.
> 
> Source, Source, etc.
> 
> ...


I read all three of your sources... and none of those said you will need to strip down features from the engine to make it run on a wii u... the only part closely to that was from the second source


> "You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U," he said. "If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can! If they wanna ship an Unreal Engine 4 game on Xbox 360, they could make it happen."* While that game might not look as pretty as it would on a "true" next-gen console*, the new engine is scalable to a variety of platforms, including mobile.


which by itself wasn't quoted by rein but just an add up from the editor... which is based on his own opinion...

I say close this thread as its confusing even with the new title... according to the title wii u *won't get* UE4 while in reality epic won't be porting the engine officially, but anyone else who wants to can do it...


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## Rydian (Mar 31, 2013)

Removing features to make engines lighter so they run on older hardware doesn't need a source.

It's like, asking for a source that bikes are generally ridden with your butt on the seat instead of your face.

Nobody would write an article stating that because Fucking Duh™.


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## ForteGospel (Mar 31, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Removing features to make engines lighter so they run on older hardware doesn't need a source.
> 
> It's like, asking for a source that bikes are generally ridden with your butt on the seat instead of your face.
> 
> Nobody would write an article stating that because Fucking Duh™.


The problem is that I am talking about the wii u and not the wii...

They could state that it is indeed a must to remove features from the engine for the wii u, but they didn't...

also just for the lol:


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## Rydian (Mar 31, 2013)

ForteGospel said:


> The problem is that I am talking about the wii u and not the wii...


But the Wii U's old tech too as far as the CPU goes supposedly.


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## ForteGospel (Mar 31, 2013)

Rydian said:


> But the Wii U's old tech too as far as the CPU goes *supposedly*.



the wii u right now is the newest piece of hardware... saying it's old tech comparing to unannounced specs is useless


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## Veiva (Mar 31, 2013)

Game engines like Unreal are inherently scalable. That's the beauty of these beasts. Unreal 4 is made to be as scalable as possible (it can run on HTML5, mobile, consoles, and PC--all these platforms have very different needs and capabilities, but Unreal manages). To say they would have to strip out features shows a lack of understanding. The proper term is they would have to scale back on features. Textures may not be able to be 4096 x 4096, and you may not be able to run at 1080p. However, I'm sure that most features of Unreal would be able to be implemented on the Wii U, especially considering it has DirectX 10.1 level features.

To clarify, it may not support hardware tessellation and other features that are necessary for the hardware to support, but anything else, it surely can. In fact, because the hardware is accessed at a much lower level on consoles than on the PC, a developer could very well implement features not natively supported. This is true especially so with GPGPU technology. For example, Microsoft's DirectX feature set on the Xbox 360 has features not present on a consumer-level equivalent card. I believe one of these features is multisampled render targets.

So, while Epic may not be porting Unreal to the Wii U, it does not mean that another developer has to port a bastardized version of the engine. On the contrary, it would just mean they have to scale back on things like textures, resolution, etc.


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## Rydian (Mar 31, 2013)

ForteGospel said:


> the wii u right now is the newest piece of hardware... saying it's old tech comparing to unannounced specs is useless


But we do have enough specs to know it's old tech.  Both official and unofficial data says the CPU is in the 750 family.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/wiiu-clockspeeds-found-by-marcan-wii-hacker.338319/#post-4466329
We don't know which exact model, but the 750 family is an old architecture by today's standards.

It's like how Firefox, starting with version 5.0, requires SSE2, so processors without that instruction set won't be able to run it properly.  Even if something like a Pentium-III was produced brand-new today and ran at 4GHz, it still would lack SSE2 and thus not run it.  New CPU, but old tech.



Veiva said:


> To say they would have to strip out features shows a lack of understanding. The proper term is they would have to scale back on features.


M'kay, so how do you do SSAO in a software rasterizer in HTML5 while maintaining a playable framerate?   Just using that as an extreme example...


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## Veiva (Mar 31, 2013)

Rydian said:


> M'kay, so how do you do SSAO in a software rasterizer in HTML5 while maintaining a playable framerate?  Just using that as an extreme example...


 
You can do SSAO in WebGL. This is because WebGL supports all OpenGL ES 2.0 features. It's not something that is truly that demanding in modern hardware.

Example 1: http://alteredqualia.com/three/examples/webgl_postprocessing_ssao.html
Example 2: http://codeflow.org/entries/2011/oct/25/webgl-screenspace-ambient-occlusion/

I consider WebGL a "HTML5" feature, in any case.


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## Eerpow (Mar 31, 2013)

Wish we knew how capable the GPU is exactly, I'm thinking that the things needing scaling down aren't visual effects but rather things like polygon count and textures due to the CPU. Much like the 3DS which is capable of excellent shading and effects like bumpmapping but still don't match the Wii when it comes to raw computational power.


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## Rydian (Mar 31, 2013)

Veiva said:


> You can do SSAO in WebGL. This is because WebGL supports all OpenGL ES 2.0 features. It's not something that is truly that demanding in modern hardware.
> 
> Example 1: http://alteredqualia.com/three/examples/webgl_postprocessing_ssao.html
> Example 2: http://codeflow.org/entries/2011/oct/25/webgl-screenspace-ambient-occlusion/
> ...


Assuming that the hardware supports OpenGL 2.0.
_<EDIT> Though I did specify just a software rasterizer... </EDIT>_

But this situation is about what to do when the hardware doesn't support certain things.  Do you leave those features in the engine anyways, or remove them to reduce the size of the game and increase performance?  To which level for both of those depends on the feature in question, but it's not uncommon for differing hardware sets to work differently enough that one has a decided disadvantage versus another, even if the disadvantaged one is newer.

Like the loading times in the FF Anthology games for the PSX, whereas the SNES had no loading times due to being cart-based.



Eerpow said:


> things like polygon count and textures


Those would fall in the court of the people making the individual game, not the people who head the engine, so unfortunately I think it's not the case.


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## Veiva (Mar 31, 2013)

Rydian said:


> Assuming that the hardware supports OpenGL 2.0.
> _<EDIT> Though I did specify just a software rasterizer... </EDIT>_
> 
> But this situation is about what to do when the hardware doesn't support certain things. Do you leave those features in the engine anyways, or remove them to reduce the size of the game and increase performance? To which level for both of those depends on the feature in question, but it's not uncommon for differing hardware sets to work differently enough that one has a decided disadvantage versus another, even if the disadvantaged one is newer.


 
In regards to you specifying a software rasterizer, nothing serious in use today uses software rasterizers. Even then, Unreal could be ported to use a software rasterizer--it just wouldn't be in any way playable. So I don't see the point... Unreal is a very scalable engine, and features don't have to be "removed" to increase performance. Rather, they can just be unused. That's the great thing about modern rendering pipelines.

Also, hardware that doesn't support OpenGL 2 is hard to find nowadays. My netbook supports OpenGL 3 (to be exact, OpenGL 3.3) reasonably well. Embedded devices largely use ES2 chips. Even Intel IGP from the past few years have at least supported OpenGL 2 (much of the more recent ones, such as the embedded GPUs on i3/i5/i7 hardware even supports OpenGL 3). You can assume pretty well that any hardware worth targeting supports OpenGL 2 features, if not OpenGL 3. Similarly, if hardware supports GL3 it surely supports DirectX 10.1 if not higher (in the case of Intel's embedded GPUs).


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## Hielkenator (Apr 1, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> My point is that SO MANY games run on Unreal Engine that not having it is a seriously bad thing. Yeah, it might get some non-Unreal games, but to say it'll be getting just as much support as its competition when it's not running Unreal Engine is just flat out wrong. You're just trying too hard to promote the Unreal Engine as just "brown shooters" when in reality it runs everything from Arkham Asylum to Bioshock to Alice: Madness Returns to Mass Effect to Lollipop Chainsaw.
> 
> Also I just threw down the complete opposite of a "war promoting propaganda shooter" so take off the tin foil hat.


We were talking about the fourth UE generation, the games you mention are the third generation, which is fully supported.
I'm not fortune telling like you do. time will see how UE4 will be implemented for all home consoles.
In the end developers choose what they'll use.



Eerpow said:


> Wish we knew how capable the GPU is exactly, I'm thinking that the things needing scaling down aren't visual effects but rather things like polygon count and textures due to the CPU. Much like the 3DS which is capable of excellent shading and effects like bumpmapping but still don't match the Wii when it comes to raw computational power.


From a PC standpoint it's nothing fancy but, remember it's NOT a PC, Nintendo has always used it's own structure which could compensate the system in terms of what the system can do comparing to other home consoles.


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## JoostinOnline (Apr 1, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> I don't think that any games do yet, but it has the ability. I'm not too surprised, most everything has been ports so far.


I was wrong on this.  I know AT LEAST these games run in native 1080p:
Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate
Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition
ZombiU
Assassin's Creed 3

There are probably more, I just checked and found those four.


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## Rydian (Apr 1, 2013)

Veiva said:


> In regards to you specifying a software rasterizer, nothing serious in use today uses software rasterizers.


The fact that you need to limit the discussion to an objective word like "serious"... isn't that a bit one-sided?   For example I have handled a few servers in my time, and outside a Linux distro built on an Ubuntu base or something, the majority of servers tend to have nothing but a framebuffer driver installed.

Consider Minecraft.  It's a multiplayer game, with dedicated server software.  This software can be run on home computers and dedicated servers just as easily, and is cross-platform.  So this server software often needs to run in an environment with no graphical hardware acceleration, including a total lack of OpenGl support.

Now, unlike most games, light levels play a critical role in the game.  They determine where and when monsters can spawn, and affect plant growth for food.  However in a multiplayer environment, the server needs to be able to do and pass block light calculations to the players.  _So all the original lighting calculations need to be done on the CPU, without any GPU assistance_.  Once those original calculations are done the clients can just take that info and use their GPUs to display it in varying levels of niceness.







This screenshot was taken in an older version of Minecraft, multiplayer.  Nobody else was in the area I was in, so the are wasn't loaded by the server.  I went over there, so the server started loading up those chunks of land and doing the light calculations.  And it fucked up, as you can see.  The right line of torches does not give out light as far as the left line.

This is not just graphical, however.  The server messed up the lighting calculations, and until my client causes a recalculation (affecting the lighting near that area somehow), monsters will be able to spawn in it, if there were crops there they wouldn't grow there at night, etc.

And to get back to the main point, stripping versus disabling...
minecraft.jar for 1.5.1 is 5.3MB.
minecraft_server.jar for 1.5.1 is 2.3MB.
A few megabytes is not much and asset removal is likely a good bit of it (don't need the textures on the server implementation, etc.), but it is over 50% savings on disk space for just the binary.

And hey, what about GBC/GBA games?  Stereo was only available via headphones for a long time, so most games went with mono sound, because stereo was more expensive (speaking in terms of resources, not specifically cost).



Veiva said:


> Even then, Unreal could be ported to use a software rasterizer--it just wouldn't be in any way playable.


... _unless they removed certain features_.

For example, I played Quake II with the software rasterizer (yes, games back then had that natively) on my Windows 98 machine because my SiS 530 didn't support the right stuff for hardware acceleration.  And it ran playably on my AMD K6-2 clocked at 475MHz.

Now, granted, I was presented with this...






Opposed to this...






Because features like dynamic lighting and texture smoothing were not supported on my hardware.  Also note the lack of the decal on the window to the right, water transparency was missing, etc.

_But the game ran, it ran playably, and I beat it multiple times like that._  This is an example where stripping features out of the just renderer makes it run playably on simpler hardware, while keeping the option for the features in the game itself, so people with better hardware could use them.



Veiva said:


> So I don't see the point... Unreal is a very scalable engine, and features don't have to be "removed" to increase performance. Rather, they can just be unused. That's the great thing about modern rendering pipelines.


Okay, I think this is the source of the confusion.  Here's what I'm talking about.

Removed: Not done by default _in the distributed binary_, and no options added to enable it.  Akin to minecraft_server.jar not doing rendering and presenting a totally different UI.
Disabled: Optionally removed for compatibility with older/weaker systems.  Akin to having multiple rendering options.

And I think what you're talking about is removing the ability to add heavier features from the SDK/development environment in total.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Look at that hate wagon go. Wheeeee!


Dude... There's _"Hate Train"_ and there's _"truth"_ - the WiiU owners _are_ missing out on a lot of third-party core games these days, it's hard to deny that.


xwatchmanx said:


> "Always" had poor 3rd party support? NES and SNES say "hi."


Except y'know, that was ages ago. N64 had no third-party support, the Gamecube had no third-party support, the Wii had third-party support in the form of Shovelware and the WiiU is in agony.


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## emigre (Apr 4, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Dude... There's _"Hate Train"_ and there's _"truth"_ - the WiiU owners _are_ missing out on a lot of third-party core games these days, it's hard to deny that.
> 
> Except y'know, that was ages ago. N64 had no third-party support, the Gamecube had no third-party support, the Wii had third-party support in the form of Shovelware and the WiiU is in agony.


 
Christ Foxi4Sony, I don't know what planet you're on but third party support on a consoles released over twenty years ago, is completely relevant to today's market.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 4, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Dude... There's _"Hate Train"_ and there's _"truth"_ - the WiiU owners _are_ missing out on a lot of third-party core games these days, it's hard to deny that.
> 
> Except y'know, that was ages ago. N64 had no third-party support, the Gamecube had no third-party support, the Wii had third-party support in the form of Shovelware and the WiiU is in agony.


 
It's missing out on some games, not all of them. It's still getting and has good third party support so far.


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 4, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Except y'know, that was ages ago. N64 had no third-party support, the Gamecube had no third-party support, the Wii had third-party support in the form of Shovelware and the WiiU is in agony.





emigre said:


> Christ Foxi4Sony, I don't know what planet you're on but third party support on a consoles released over twenty years ago, is completely relevant to today's market.


I wasn't arguing that third party support on 20 year old consoles meant anything today. I was simply pointing out that the person I was responding to was objectively wrong when he said "Nintendo has _never_ had third party support." Keyword, "never."

This might astound you guys, but "forever" and "20 years ago" are not synonymous.  Plus I specifically mentioned in the exact same comment, "Nintendo has had shoddy 3rd party support since the N64, there's no denying that."


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## emigre (Apr 4, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> I wasn't arguing that third party support on 20 year old consoles meant anything today. I was simply pointing out that the person I was responding to was objectively wrong when he said "Nintendo has _never_ had third party support." Keyword, "never."
> 
> This might astound you guys, but "forever" and "20 years ago" are not synonymous.  Plus I specifically mentioned in the exact same comment, "Nintendo has had shoddy 3rd party support since the N64, there's no denying that."


 
Dude, hyperbole.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> It's missing out on some games, not all of them. It's still getting and has good third party support so far.


 
"Some games".

Just most of them.

Its missed so many crucial releases since its launch.

Like I'm sorry but you're REALLY going into straight up denial when it missed SO MANY releases.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 4, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "Some games".
> 
> Just most of them.
> 
> ...


 
OH HAI GUILD HOW U DEWIN!? BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE HERD FRUM U


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 4, 2013)

So to sum up this thread, nintendo's doomed?


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 4, 2013)

emigre said:


> Dude, hyperbole.


Yeah, I know. Just felt like pointing it out, just in case.


Guild McCommunist said:


> "Some games".
> 
> Just most of them.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I gotta agree with Guild here, Shadow. There's just no way to deny that the Wii U is missing so many freaking 3rd party titles... Is it understandable for a console launch? Maybe partially. But regardless of the reason, there's just no way to deny that the Wii U's third party support is just terrible right now.


soulx said:


> So to sum up this thread, nintendo's doomed?


You have to say it in a really growly Christian-Bale-as-Batman voice. NintenDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED...


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## Eerpow (Apr 4, 2013)

And just to add nothing to a conversation that shouldn't have been here in the first place:
Nintendo has had great 3rd party support on portables.


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## Gahars (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> OH HAI GUILD HOW U DEWIN!? BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE HERD FRUM U


 
Is this the new coping mechanism?


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 4, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Is this the new coping mechanism?


 
Not really because he's counting all the multiplatform games while I said that there are third party games available and coming out. But nope, BioShock Dead Island Grand Theft Auto and Tomb Raider is all that matters


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 4, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> And just to add nothing to a conversation that shouldn't have been here in the first place:
> Nintendo has had great 3rd party support on portables.


This is what irks me about Nintendo. It's like there are two completely different companies working on Nintendo home consoles and portables. The portable sector knows how to manage third-party relations, can get their shit to sell and releases actual competent hardware while home console Nintendo knows fuck-all about maintaining third-party support, struggles to get their stuff to sell (aside from the Wii) and releases hardware that pales in comparison to competitors.


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 4, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> And just to add nothing to a conversation that shouldn't have been here in the first place:
> Nintendo has had great 3rd party support on portables.





soulx said:


> This is what irks me about Nintendo. It's like there are two completely different companies working on Nintendo home consoles and portables. The portable sector knows how to manage third-party relations, can get their shit to sell and releases actual competent hardware while home console Nintendo knows fuck-all about maintaining third-party support, struggles to get their stuff to sell (aside from the Wii) and releases hardware that pales in comparison to competitors.


That's because they practically monopolize the handheld market. Same as the console market back in the NES days. The PSP was successful, but nowhere near as successful as the DS (outsold 10 to 1, if I remember what I read correctly), and we all know how the Vita is doing right now. The only major 3rd party exclusives that the Vita seems to get are the ones where hardware power is of importance and/or the franchise is more popular amongst the Sony audience (CoD and AssCreed, for example).


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Not really because he's counting all the multiplatform games while I said that there are third party games available and coming out. But nope, BioShock Dead Island Grand Theft Auto and Tomb Raider is all that matters


 
Because the Wii U not getting multiplats doesn't count towards third party support?

Riiiiiggghhhtttt...


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## Gahars (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Not really because he's counting all the multiplatform games while I said that there are third party games available and coming out. But nope, BioShock Dead Island Grand Theft Auto and Tomb Raider is all that matters


 
Not to mention Dead Space, DmC, Crysis, MGR: Revengeance, and more. The list is worryingly large.

These are some high profile titles that generate a lot of sales - and Nintendo is losing out by not having them. If that's not concerning, I don't know what is.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 4, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Because the Wii U not getting multiplats doesn't count towards third party support?
> 
> Riiiiiggghhhtttt...


 no the reason why I don't take you seriously is because you come off saying that it's getting NO support. And that's not true.


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## Eerpow (Apr 4, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> That's because they practically monopolize the handheld market. Same as the console market back in the NES days. The PSP was successful, but nowhere near as successful as the DS (outsold 10 to 1, if I remember what I read correctly), and we all know how the Vita is doing right now. The only major 3rd party exclusives that the Vita seems to get are the ones where hardware power is of importance and/or the franchise is more popular amongst the Sony audience (CoD and AssCreed, for example).


Yeah but it's weird, as soulx said, why are the portable and home console management so different? Nintendo has practically had monopoly in the portable space for a long time and why is that?
They've had worthy competitors over the years with Sony being the only one who has kept their spot in the portable market, why are their relations on the console side of things so different?


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> no the reason why I don't take you seriously is because you come off saying that it's getting NO support. And that's not true.


When did he say that...? I think it kind of goes without saying that "no third party support" is a pretty generalized statement.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 4, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> no the reason why I don't take you seriously is because you come off saying that it's getting NO support. And that's not true.



No, but definites are almost never true. You can't so no one in the world has never died by ripping out their own rectum because I bet at least one person has.


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 4, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> You can't say no one in the world has ever died by ripping out their own rectum because I bet at least one person has.


The more you know.


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## Dork (Apr 4, 2013)

I love the Wii U, I love what is has to offer and it has great potential, I don't regret being an early adopter.

But there is no denying that this is a huge loss, Nintendo really needs to step it up, Cry Engine 3 and now this? You have to be delusional to shit if you think the Wii U is only missing out on 'some games'.


----------

