# Onlive Bankrupt



## Snailface (Aug 17, 2012)

Today Onlive is laying off its staff and declaring bankruptcy. Shocking news, but many sites are reporting it. It is also reported the service will probably be acquired by a new company and continue operations, so don't panic if you are a subscriber. Do panic if you're an investor.

 
  Source
 Source


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## emigre (Aug 17, 2012)

So they're not onlive anymore?


TAKE THAT GAHARS!


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## Wabsta (Aug 17, 2012)

Oh damn, I was just going to try it on my little brothers tablet since he won't be able to pay for a gaming PC. Oh well..


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## Deleted member 473940 (Aug 17, 2012)

I am not surprised to be honest.
We are simply not at that level yet..


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 17, 2012)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And this is why I won't buy games from these cloud services. They shut down and all your games are gone.


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## KingVamp (Aug 17, 2012)

emigre said:


> So they're not onlive anymore?
> 
> 
> TAKE THAT GAHARS!


Yeah, they are offdead.

Is this News creditable?


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## Arras (Aug 17, 2012)

Looks like Onlive didn't live on.


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## yuuna (Aug 17, 2012)

> OnLive: "We Are Not Going Out Of Business"


http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2012/08/17/onlive-we-are-not-going-out-of-business/


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## Fear Zoa (Aug 17, 2012)

That really sucks for all the people who bought games on there. 

This is why I still prefer physical media with no drm...because that will always work.


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## EZ-Megaman (Aug 17, 2012)

soulx said:


> They shut down and all your games are gone.





Snailface said:


> It is also reported the service will be probably be acquired by a new company and continue operations, so don't panic.


So no, people still have their games.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 17, 2012)

Glad I only rented games from Onlive. 

But it seems they aren't going out of business, so that's good I suppose.


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## Snailface (Aug 17, 2012)

I've always wondered how they could afford putting top-notch gaming tech on a server and have it available for each and every subscriber for a tiny monthly fee. I guess the answer is that they couldn't. Maybe it was the bandwidth cost that killed them, who knows.


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## Coto (Aug 17, 2012)

I kinda prefer MY hardware running games. Not being streamed off somewhere.



Spoiler



Offlive


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## Vanth88 (Aug 17, 2012)

It's kind of funny if you think about it considering I just posted 2 things about how they'e giving away free indie games. Still... the onlive service is still up so that says something.


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## raulpica (Aug 17, 2012)

I was expecting this news from months. OnLive's business model couldn't possibly allow them to turn to profit, considering the MASSIVE costs the entire infrastrcuture needed.


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## Snailface (Aug 17, 2012)

yuuna said:


> > OnLive: "We Are Not Going Out Of Business"
> 
> 
> http://www.forbes.co...ut-of-business/


Article updated.


> [UPDATE 1: A source familiar with the matter has told Kotaku that OnLive is preparing to file for bankruptcy.]
> [UPDATE 2: Gamasutra reports that an internal source has confirmed mass layoffs inside OnLive.]


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Aug 17, 2012)

They're OnLifeSupport.


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## Clarky (Aug 17, 2012)

poor guys, great idea really, just far too immature to work right now


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## notmeanymore (Aug 17, 2012)

I bet they filed bankruptcy just so all these puns would happen.


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## emigre (Aug 17, 2012)

TehSkull said:


> I bet they filed bankruptcy just so all these puns would happen.



I have a lingering suspicion, Gahars has played a role in Onlive's bankruptcy.


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## DiscostewSM (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't doubt that in time, cloud gaming in this fashion will be viable. It just isn't right now.


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## Bladexdsl (Aug 17, 2012)

knew this wouldn't last half the world can't even use it so their market was very slim


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## Gahars (Aug 18, 2012)

OnLive was a company just a little too ahead of its time... and was doomed for it. It's a shame, but hopefully this experiment will give way to more successful attempts in the future.

If that's the case, then OnLive lives on.


...What? They can't all be zingers. I'm only human, damn it!


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## Wintrale (Aug 18, 2012)

OnLive will, indeed, LiveOn. But I'm just glad I never bought into the service 'cause, obviously, nobody is getting a refund.


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## Janthran (Aug 18, 2012)

Gahars said:


> I'm only human, damn it!


Humans are the top thing right now, though. Being human isn't an excuse.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 18, 2012)

http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/17/confirmed-onlives-assets-sold-to-another-company/

Assets sold to other company.


Oh well.


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## Gahars (Aug 18, 2012)

Janthran said:


> Gahars said:
> 
> 
> > I'm only human, damn it!
> ...



Ah, got it. I'll remind myself that I'm an apex (or would that be a-pecs?) predator the next time I'm making with the word play.


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## Centrix (Aug 18, 2012)

Today Onlive is laying off its staff and declaring bankruptcy. Shocking news, but many sites are reporting it. It is also reported the service will probably be acquired by a new company
"*Shocking news*" ummm no not really did any one even care about Onlive, oh wait their Bankrupt! I guess not. I personally saw no reason for this and can see and understand why this has happened to the company!


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

First off _*snippity*_ Seriously, you sound like PS360 gamer hating on everything Nintendo does.

secondly, eat this statement from OnLive.

_We can now confirm that the assets of OnLive, Inc. have been acquired into a newly-formed company and is backed by substantial funding, and which will continue to operate the OnLive Game and Desktop services, as well as support all of OnLive's apps and devices, as well as game, productivity and enterprise partnerships. The new company is hiring a large percentage of OnLive, Inc.'s staff across all departments and plans to continue to hire substantially more people, including additional OnLive employees. All previously announced products and services, including those in the works, will continue and there is no expected interruption of any OnLive services.

We apologize that we were unable to comment on this transaction until it completed, and were limited to reporting on news related to OnLive's businesses. Now that the transaction is complete, we are able to make this statement._

**snippity* OnLve isn't going anywhere!*


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## Deleted-236924 (Aug 18, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Seriously, you sound like PS360 gamer hating on everything Nintendo does.



What Nintendoes, or what Nintendon't.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 18, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> First off _*snippity*_ Seriously, you sound like PS360 gamer hating on everything Nintendo does.


One, chill out. And two, there's a reason people aren't fond of it versus traditional PC gaming.

- Input lag/Compression
- No modding support
- Can't adjust graphical settings
- No way to play offline, reliance on their servers

It's a pretty flawed idea.


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

For a community of people who claim to have a love of gaming, you all get very xenophobic when a company dares to present to you something outside of your bubble. I expected more mature reactions from members of this forum. 50% of the company lost their jobs today. Show some fucking empathy! Get your heads out your asses and stop hating on shit just because you don't use or understand it!


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 18, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> For a community of people who claim to have a love of gaming, you all get very xenophobic when a company dares to present to you something outside of your bubble. I expected more mature reactions from members of this forum. 50% of the company lost their jobs today. Show some fucking empathy! Get your heads out your asses and stop hating on shit just because you don't use or understand it!


I beg you don't cry ;O;

No one said it wasn't a good idea, no one said it was bad. We said it was to be expected, because the company is *ahead of it's time. *With the average internet connection speed and the average bandwidth costs there's absolutely no way OnLive would ever turn a profit in this age. Is it a shame? Sure. Does it mean OnLive was a bad idea? Nope, and not a single person in this thread said it was. So please, wipe the tears from your eyes.

EDIT: Sorry, *one *person said it was.


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## Hyro-Sama (Aug 18, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> For a community of people who claim to have a love of gaming, you all get very xenophobic when a company dares to present to you something outside of your bubble. I expected more mature reactions from members of this forum. 50% of the company lost their jobs today. Show some fucking empathy! Get your heads out your asses and stop hating on shit just because you don't use or understand it!



Seriously, why are you talking this so personally?  Shit, it's like no one around here can take a joke anymore.


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## Deleted_171835 (Aug 18, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> Does it mean OnLive was a bad idea? *Nope, and not a single person in this thread said it was.* So please, wipe the tears from your eyes.





soulx said:


> One, chill out. And two, there's a reason people aren't fond of it versus traditional PC gaming.
> 
> - Input lag/Compression
> - No modding support
> ...



But I'm pretty sick of your condescending attitude. it just makes you seem like a giant asshat.



Suprgamr232 said:


> I'm pretty sick of you pushing your opinion as fact. Makes you look like a giant asshat.


wut


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## Tom Bombadildo (Aug 18, 2012)

soulx said:


> Suprgamr232 said:
> 
> 
> > Does it mean OnLive was a bad idea? Nope, and not a single person in this thread said it was. So please, wipe the tears from your eyes.
> ...


I'm pretty sick of you pushing your opinion as fact. Makes you look like a giant asshat.


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > For a community of people who claim to have a love of gaming, you all get very xenophobic when a company dares to present to you something outside of your bubble. I expected more mature reactions from members of this forum. 50% of the company lost their jobs today. Show some fucking empathy! Get your heads out your asses and stop hating on shit just because you don't use or understand it!
> ...




Not crying bro  I AM very disappointed in the reaction here. This is the shit that makes me want to stop calling myself a gamer and the type of action that makes us all look like a bunch of duchebags.


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## the_randomizer (Aug 18, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> For a community of people who claim to have a love of gaming, you all get very xenophobic when a company dares to present to you something outside of your bubble. I expected more mature reactions from members of this forum. 50% of the company lost their jobs today. Show some fucking empathy! Get your heads out your asses and stop hating on shit just because you don't use or understand it!



Not liking something and not understanding something are *TWO very different things*.  Just because you worship cloud gaming like it's some deity somehow makes you better than those who would prefer physical (and DRM-free) media? Wow. Looks like someone had their lunch money stolen today.

Reasons cloud gaming isn't viable yet:
DRM-restrictions (which are evil in all circumstances)
No ability to backup your saves
No configuration options to chose from
If your connection sucks balls and drops frequently, you're SOL
Input lag
If a cloud gaming service goes under or their servers experience a DDOS attack, no game for you

Until companies allow people to disable DRM, download the game and not have a required internet connection to play said game, cloud gaming will never be viable.


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## KingVamp (Aug 18, 2012)

soulx said:


> One, chill out. And two, there's a reason people aren't fond of it versus traditional PC gaming.
> 
> - Input lag/Compression
> *From what I heard, as long as if you have decent internet, it runs well.*
> ...



I think it is just young. People are going for it. It not something I would want to use tho. The best thing for me is to stream from my own storage from home.'

I would say, this could have been a mass of games lost to people. It didn't happen this time, what about the next?
I guessing they have a no compensation policy.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Aug 18, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> soulx said:
> 
> 
> > - No modding support
> > *As far as I know, that isn't official feature for any game.*



Well, there are the Elder Scrolls games which are all pretty much open to modding. 
Surely there are others as well.

But I digress.

Now people, please keep the flaming to a minimum and knock off the image posts.


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

OK Now I'm going to say WTF...

http://www.engadget....nlive-confirms/

Apparently, they decided to say "reset the damn game" to their business. They basically decided to downsize, which makes sense but had to "disappear" as a company to do so  Smart and cruel at the same time. Either way it's business as usually and the games aren't going anywhere so I'll continue playing "LOTR: War in the North" after I'm done watching SmackDown!


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## LINK289 (Aug 18, 2012)

I enjoy the service o.o

I got Arkham Asylum for $2 and Deus Ex HR for $1. My Internet is horrible and my computer is old so I can only play them at friends houses and hotels while traveling. I am still glad I have the option to play good games whenever I get the chance xD


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

LINK289 said:


> I enjoy the service o.o
> 
> I got Arkham Asylum for $2 and Deus Ex HR for $1. My Internet is horrible and my computer is old so I can only play them at friends houses and hotels while traveling. I am still glad I have the option to play good games whenever I get the chance xD



A trick for slower connections (aside from making sure you're using a wired connection) is to drop your screen resolution (600x480). That tends to help people with really crappy hardware or "barely making it" connections.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Aug 18, 2012)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2012/08/17/onlive-we-are-not-going-out-of-business/

check it out.

What OnLive is saying and what is going on..is not adding up.


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## jalaneme (Aug 18, 2012)

ShawnTRods said:


> I am not surprised to be honest.
> We are simply not at that level yet..



the technology is simply not there, not everyone has unlimited internet and high speeds with good pings.


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

Looks like we're going to have a OnLive vs Gaikai patent war...

http://m.joystiq.com/2012/08/17/source-onlive-ceo-showed-no-remorse-when-announcing-layoffs/

Considering that Pearlman is acting without remorse (for the mass layoffs) I cant honestly say that I will be dropping any more major purchases in the service. I'll still use my account but cautiously.


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## shadow1w2 (Aug 18, 2012)

I've been covering this stuff lately myself for my own game news site.

Plus being on of the original Onlive Fans Cast members helps a little. (podcast thing)

From what I've gathered, the service is not shutting down.
Not to mention any playpass has a contract of which they are abligated to host it for a minimum of three years.
So they can't shut it down without some sort of compensation.

It all sounded like the worse but it seems they are just changing hands and moving around shares.
All beit a little weird as they fire half thier staff and such.
Bizaire really.

Overall the service is still operational, though I'd be wary to purchase a game till things calm down a bit.

See if they might start to get things straight for once.
Lack of communication has been one of their biggest flaws over the years for instance.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 18, 2012)

Not an OnLive user (except to test it with free demos), but I'm genuinely surprised, and a bit disappointed. I really thought they had something, there.


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## Arm73 (Aug 18, 2012)

Now that I have a very good internet connection and I was seriously thinking of getting onlive...this happens !
I purchased ( so to speak ) the free game last week and I'm very happy and thrilled with the service,as it runs on my netbook nearly flawlessly, alto ugh I have a very good connection ( >25mbps ) I still get a slightly choppy framerate that could be due to my weak netbook hardware.
I was actually thinking of getting a middle-of-the road laptop or even the onlive microconsole and get their playpack.
But now, even though the service is not even remotely close to being shot down, the future doesn't seem so bright anymore and I'm not too sure I should invest money in this, or get a better PC capable of playing today's games.......Mhmmmm


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## Attila13 (Aug 18, 2012)

Snailface said:


> *Do panic if you're an investor.*



This is the reason I like to buy my games as physical or digital copies.....Because There's always the risk that a service like this has a big chance to fail, and if you purchased any games from them you won't get the game files, so if they fail, you remain with nothing.
Oh no, you remain with something....with a hole in your pocket.



EZ-Megaman said:


> Snailface said:
> 
> 
> > It is also reported the service will be probably be acquired by a new company and continue operations, so don't panic.
> ...


Yeah, don't panic if you're a subscriber. But if another company buy a business it's not guaranteed that they'll continue with the same thing...
So....if you're a subscriber, then yes, you don't have to panic, because you'll still receive news from them and newsletters, but if you invested in the program and the whole thing is changed by the new owner company, than you're pretty much screwed.


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## gifi4 (Aug 18, 2012)

Coto said:


> I kinda prefer MY hardware running games. Not being streamed off somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This. I built a gaming computer so I could game using my hardware.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 18, 2012)

I've been an OnLive user (not for a while but I used to use it frequently) and it's a quality service, it'd be a shame to see it vanish. It was a great idea that worked surprisingly well, all things considered, and I enjoyed playing on it a lot. I beat Bioshock on it, I beat Arkham Asylum on it, I beat W40K: Space Marine on it, as well as a multitude of other titles. It works well and some of the deals were really good too.

Hopefully they'll be sticking around or absorbed into a larger company like Gaikai did with Sony.


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## Rasas (Aug 18, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> Looks like we're going to have a OnLive vs Gaikai patent war...
> 
> http://m.joystiq.com...uncing-layoffs/
> 
> Considering that Pearlman is acting without remorse (for the mass layoffs) I cant honestly say that I will be dropping any more major purchases in the service. I'll still use my account but cautiously.


I wonder if the 1800 number is true. If it is I don't see the company doing any better except maybe having less expenses maybe....


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## Janthran (Aug 18, 2012)

Gahars said:


> Janthran said:
> 
> 
> > Gahars said:
> ...


Okay, that one made me chuckle.


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## LightyKD (Aug 18, 2012)

shadow1w2 said:


> I've been covering this stuff lately myself for my own game news site.
> 
> Plus being on of the original Onlive Fans Cast members helps a little. (podcast thing)
> 
> ...



I agree with he lack of communication situation. It looks like Steve Pearlman sole the company to (wait for it, wait for it) ... himself. Crazy because apparently it was to get out of a few contracts that was killing business. I'm glad to see that the service is still going. Hopefully, not that they have downsized, they can focus more on what's important... THE GAMES!

Quick Edit: I'm sure the will make some of that money back once OnLive sues the shit out of Gaikai because of the patents OnLive now holds!


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## shakirmoledina (Aug 18, 2012)

Good idea not practical like others said


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## The Milkman (Aug 18, 2012)

...but I just bought Saints Row 3 and Bioshock on it...


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## Minox (Aug 18, 2012)

Zantigo said:


> ...but I just bought Saints Row 3 and Bioshock on it...


If you had read the topic as well as other follow-up stories you would've known that they're downsizing through a rather sly method, they're not really going out of business.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 18, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> If you had read the topic as well as other follow-up stories you would've known that they're downsizing through a rather sly method, they're not really going out of business.


If you had read his comment, you would realize he never specified whether or not he thought that he would lose his games.


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## Snailface (Aug 18, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> If you had read the topic as well as other follow-up stories you would've known that they're downsizing through a rather sly method, they're not really going out of business.



They did go out of business.
http://kotaku.com/59...-expect-the-end
tldr: It wasn't officially declared a bankruptcy, but they were instead bought out by investors and are being reorganized. They failed, ran out of money and are now a completely new entity.

8000 servers, 1600 concurrent subscribers at any given time. That isn't a business model.
It's just amazing they lasted as long as they did. I hope the layed-off employees find work soon.


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## Minox (Aug 18, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Minox_IX said:
> 
> 
> > If you had read the topic as well as other follow-up stories you would've known that they're downsizing through a rather sly method, they're not really going out of business.
> ...


That sad smilie implied something bad had happened, which really is not the case for normal customers as we're unlikely to notice a difference.



Snailface said:


> They did go out of business.
> http://kotaku.com/59...-expect-the-end
> tldr: It wasn't officially declared a bankruptcy, but they were instead bought out by investors and are being reorganized. They failed, ran out of money and are now a completely new entity.


Since OnLive still exists as an entity I'd hardly call that going out of business. The sly method I mentioned was that they were able to downsize the company and getting rid of excess resources with minimal resources.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 18, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> That sad smilie implied something bad had happened, which really is not the case for normal customers as we're unlikely to notice a difference.


I know I would be sad if I were an OnLive customer. If I just purchased some new games, who knows how whoever takes over will handle things compared to the original guys? Imagine if Apple suddenly went bankrupt and Microsoft took over. How would you feel about the iPhone you just bought?


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## hatredg0d (Aug 18, 2012)

i hope google got them /dreams


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## SifJar (Aug 18, 2012)

Glad they're not gone completely, I was just planning on starting to use the service to play a few games I'll not be able to otherwise (not going to pay for an expensive gaming PC or a PS3 or a 360 for 2 or 3 games I want to play), as I should soon have an Internet connection capable of running it well.


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## Rasas (Aug 19, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> snip


Only the really stupid or lazy spend that much. Plus with Steam and sales you pay like 5-50 usually and 400-800 on a decent PC to run them.


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## LightyKD (Aug 19, 2012)

Rasas said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...



I know. I was being a tad bit dramatic and sarcastic with my post. I'm just making fun of PC gamers who whine about how they think that OnLive ruined PC gaming. Not OnLive's or its user's fault that this faction need to justify their purchase  with some false sense of superiority. It's like PS/360 gamers getting all mad because the little 250 dollar Wii was kicking ass and taking names, Reggie style.


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Aug 19, 2012)

Also not too long ago they were offering a game for free


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## Minox (Aug 19, 2012)

LightyKD said:


> I know. I was being a tad bit dramatic and sarcastic with my post. I'm just making fun of PC gamers who whine about how they think that OnLive ruined PC gaming. Not OnLive's or its user's fault that this faction need to justify their purchase  with some false sense of superiority. It's like PS/360 gamers getting all mad because the little 250 dollar Wii was kicking ass and taking names, Reggie style.


Last time I checked OnLive didn't kick anyone's ass, it's an option just like the PC and all the consoles out there.

Each and every person out there has their own preference when it comes to gaming platform of choice, it doesn't get much simpler than that.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2012)

This is the danger of _streaming content_ - if there _wasn't_ another company that would continue the service, all the subscribers_ "magically" lose their purchases_. This is why I'm such an advocate of physical mediums - you never know what's going to happen. Streaming company goes under - your content, your property, goes under along with it - it's like a risky investment on Wall Street. You're going to come out with services like Steam which offer downloadable content rather than streamed, but I'll tell you what - what if someone hacks the servers? What if said service goes under and you will find yourself unable to re-download all your titles? What about the titles with DRM that require you to connect to a global server to even work?

I'll have my games on a disc, thank you very much. With a disc, I know that the game will last proportionally long to how much I care for it, plus I can back it up if needs be. Some of my disc-based games are nearly as old as I am and they're still in pristine condition - what's there to complain about?

Sure, the prices on such services are lower, but for good reasons. No box, no manual, no disc, no collectioner's value - just the barebones game. If I don't care for a title enough to put it on display - fine, but this begs the question why would I buy it if I don't care for it?

I know I'm just rambling now, but I had the Download vs. Stream vs. Physical Medium so many times and this was one of my prime arguments - the unreliability of the service. I hope this tips the scales and boosts physical medium sales, because I'd hate to wake up one day, go shopping and *not* see a game store in the mall. Progress is essential and it's good to advance to new technological heights, but... some things just shouldn't change.

It's an okay _alternative _for people that are not collectors or are not passionate about gaming... but for me and people like me... not so much.


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## thegame07 (Aug 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> This is the danger of _streaming content_ - if there _wasn't_ another company that would continue the service, all the subscribers_ "magically" lose their purchases_. This is why I'm such an advocate of physical mediums - you never know what's going to happen. Streaming company goes under - your content, your property, goes under along with it - it's like a risky investment on Wall Street. You're going to come out with services like Steam which offer downloadable content rather than streamed, but I'll tell you what - what if someone hacks the servers? What if said service goes under and you will find yourself unable to re-download all your titles? What about the titles with DRM that require you to connect to a global server to even work?
> 
> I'll have my games on a disc, thank you very much. With a disc, I know that the game will last proportionally long to how much I care for it, plus I can back it up if needs be. Some of my disc-based games are nearly as old as I am and they're still in pristine condition - what's there to complain about?
> 
> ...



Until your disc comes with steamworks or Activation limit securom... Which most disc based games have these days. The days of drm free disc based content is long gone or The drm where the disc needs to be in the tray. You could say you can just use a crack but then you might aswel download the game in the first place.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 19, 2012)

thegame07 said:


> Until your disc comes with steamworks or Activation limit securom... Which most disc based games have these days. The days of drm free disc based content is long gone or The drm where the disc needs to be in the tray. You could say you can just use a no cd crack but then you might aswel download the game in the first place.


Personally, I'd MUCH rather deal with "disc needs to be in the tray" DRM than any other kind of DRM.


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## thegame07 (Aug 19, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> thegame07 said:
> 
> 
> > Until your disc comes with steamworks or Activation limit securom... Which most disc based games have these days. The days of drm free disc based content is long gone or The drm where the disc needs to be in the tray. You could say you can just use a no cd crack but then you might aswel download the game in the first place.
> ...



My point is 95% (pulling stats out my arse but I can't be to far off) of new games don't use that drm anymore. Disc content = Securom or steamworks or something similar.

The only big release recently I can think of that was drm free is The witcher 2 and even then it had securom at first with activation limits until they removed it.

Thinking you're safe to play your games in 10 years because you bought a disc these days isn't true. It's even more dodgy than buying games off steam imo.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 19, 2012)

thegame07 said:


> My point is 95% (pulling stats out my arse but I can't be to far off) of new games don't use that drm anymore. Disc content = Securom or steamworks or something similar.
> 
> The only big release recently I can think of that was drm free is The witcher 2 and even then it had securom at first with activation limits until they removed it.
> 
> Thinking your safe to play your games in 10 years because you bought a disc these days isn't true. It's even more dodgy than buying games off steam imo.


Oh, I agree. I'm just saying, that's my preference (if I was a serious PC gamer, which I'm not). Shame it's rarely the case, especially when it can be just as effective.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2012)

Downloading a Crack for a game you legally purchased _does not equal_ downloading it. I'm prefectly fine with giving credit to the developers and putting money in their basket for a job well done (when I have the money - I'm not saying that I don't pirate - I do), what I'm not fine with is saying that if I am a legitimate user of given software, I shouldn't crack it. I have full rights to modify it in any way I deem necessary and produce as many backup copies of it as I deem fit, and if that means that I'll have to download the works of some hacker and use them just to avoid some pitiful excuses at anti-piracy or some game-breaking "innovations" that are supposed to "enhance" my gaming experience via making means of making it uncomfortable _then so be it_. I paid for the game, I can crack it - don't equate that with downloading a game for free from an illegitimate source.


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## thegame07 (Aug 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Downloading a Crack for a game you legally purchased _does not equal_ downloading it. I'm prefectly fine with giving credit to the developers and putting money in their basket for a job well done (when I have the money - I'm not saying that I don't pirate - I do), what I'm not fine with is saying that if I am a legitimate user of given software, I shouldn't crack it. I have full rights to modify it in any way I deem necessary and produce as many backup copies of it as I deem fit, and if that means that I'll have to download the works of some hacker and use them just to avoid some pitiful excuses at anti-piracy or some game-breaking "innovations" that are supposed to "enhance" my gaming experience via making means of making it uncomfortable _then so be it_. I paid for the game, I can crack it - don't equate that with downloading a game for free from an illegitimate source.



So you support a developer that blocks you out of your game and forces you to download a crack for the game you purchased? I'm sorry but When companys think it's ok to treat their customers like that , I say "Pirate away". This is coming from someone with over 900 items on steam and I don't pirate pc games.  I've been wanting to play Batman Arkam City for so long but I refuse to the drm, They don't get my money and they never will.  I don't care how good their game is they won't get my money.

My point was if you're downloading a crack for your legit game you're being treated like crap from the people you paid to support. It won't be long before they drop the fucked up drm if people stopped buying it. Drm only restricts the paying customers not the pirates.

You misread my post/got me wrong from what I was saying and I can see why.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2012)

thegame07 said:


> So you support a developer that blocks you out of your game and forces you to download a crack for the game you purchased? I'm sorry but When companys think it's ok to treat their customers like that , I say "Pirate away". This is coming from someone with over 900 items on steam and I don't pirate pc games.  I've been wanting to play Batman Arkam City for so long but I refuse to the drm, They don't get my money and they never will.  I don't care how good their game is they won't get my money.
> 
> My point was if your downloading a crack for your legit game you're being treated like crap from the people you paid to support. It won't be long before they drop the fucked up drm if people stopped buying it. Drm only restricts the paying customers not the pirates.


The DRM and AP were put there BECAUSE piracy is rampant. If you think that any self-respecting programmer would deliberately put code that hinders the inner workings of their program into it then you are wrong - those are orders from the top of the ladder my friend.

I'm not a supporter of AP or DRM - I believe that the customer is entitled to do whatever he or she wants with the software he or she purchased legitimately, but at the same time I'm the last person to support a piss-poor excuse just to download games. I understand why the AP's and DRM's are out there and I know that I have to deal with them because people don't feel like buying games, I know that people don't buy games because they're expensive, I know that they're expensive because people don't buy enough of them to cover the production costs and I'm well-aware that I am a part of the problem since I download as well. This is what they call a vicious cycle - nobody will make the first move because in this scenario everybody loses anyways.

Companies don't make games - artists do. Programmers, sound editors, CG artists, designers, actors and so-on and so-forth, and I'm more than willing to put food on their table because I know that making a great game is no small feat, especially with the competition they have nowadays from other studios and the ever-expanding capabilities of the hardware. I can see where you're coming from and I agree that even if the pirates are the great majority, companies shouldn't put hurdles in the way of legitimate users, but from their perspective, it's their money put into the product and their hard work and sweat put into its development. They're not excused, by no means - AP should be designed in a way that does not impede normal use of the applications, but hackers are crafty - we all know that.

*EDIT: *I read your edit now and I figured that we're talking about the same thing, just in two different ways. I see what you mean now, sorry if I sound patronizing or if I'm ranting, I'm just trying to voice my opinion in a clear way.


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## thegame07 (Aug 19, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> thegame07 said:
> 
> 
> > So you support a developer that blocks you out of your game and forces you to download a crack for the game you purchased? I'm sorry but When companys think it's ok to treat their customers like that , I say "Pirate away". This is coming from someone with over 900 items on steam and I don't pirate pc games.  I've been wanting to play Batman Arkam City for so long but I refuse to the drm, They don't get my money and they never will.  I don't care how good their game is they won't get my money.
> ...



Well I will have to say we are going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not into conspiracy theory's but in my mind it's clear Drm has been put in place to control the users of the software. It has nothing to do with piracy. Developers aren't stupid and they know their Drm doens't work at all. Their game is cracked within the hour of release sometimes even before.

I understand your point about paying the people who actually made the game but that's not my problem if they went with a publisher that screws me over.


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## xwatchmanx (Aug 19, 2012)

thegame07 said:


> I'm not into conspiracy theory's but in my mind it's clear Drm has been put in place to control the users of the software. It has nothing to do with piracy. Developers aren't stupid and they know their Drm doens't work at all.


I disagree with most of the other points you presented here, but this one is really thought provoking. It's kind of hard to buy the idea that devs use DRM to protect their games, when it's obvious to anyone they really don't work.


thegame07 said:


> I understand your point about paying the people who actually made the game but that's not my problem if they went with a publisher that screws me over.


Two wrongs really don't make a right at all, especially if it harms the innocent. Just saying. But like you said, agree to disagree.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2012)

thegame07 said:


> I understand your point about paying the people who actually made the game but that's not my problem if they went with a publisher that screws me over.


Thing is that in these economy and times, no independent studio is capable of producing a high-end product and then distributing it on a global scale out of their own pocket - that's just not going to happen. Sure, there are exceptions to that rule - games like Minecraft make a whole lot of money, but only because they're innovative products that show a new approach towards a given subject - or even a new subject entirely - not because they're high quality, but you get my drift.

Studios require publishers to fund and distribute their content and publishers require the studios to put DRM and AP into their products to protect their interests - another vicious cycle. These aren't the DOS times anymore where a bunch of kids could code a brilliant game in their basement - this is full-on HD gaming we're talking about, and it takes hell of a lot more resources than the average gamer thinks it does.


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## thegame07 (Aug 19, 2012)

> *EDIT: *I read your edit now and I figured that we're talking about the same thing, just in two different ways. I see what you mean now, sorry if I sound patronizing or if I'm ranting, I'm just trying to voice my opinion in a clear way.



I just seen your edit. 

I didn't take your posts that way, I like having discussions like this and it's nice to have a discussion like this without someone trolling or taking things to far. It's ok to debate things here and there in a civilised matter. Which I respect, I can take people disagreeing with me and you've backed up everything you've said with your opinion which is great.

Yeah, I get what you're saying about the makers of the game.


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## Rasas (Aug 19, 2012)

One really has to question how bad is piracy, how much does it cost to add DRM usually, does it increase sales to add DRM since some people would be impatient and buy it instead of waiting for a crack, is DRM there for more then one reason and how many customers does a company lose when adding DRM to their games? I guess a lot of this questions have different answers considering the game/company.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

It looks like OnLive might be on OnLife support.

@[member='Gahars']


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## Quietlyawesome94 (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It looks like OnLive might be on OnLife support.
> 
> @[member='Gahars']



@[member='Gahars']

Dude, like my post! I posted the shitty pun first. 

http://gbatemp.net/topic/332784-onlive-bankrupt/page__view__findpost__p__4352928


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## The Milkman (Aug 19, 2012)

xwatchmanx said:


> Minox_IX said:
> 
> 
> > That sad smilie implied something bad had happened, which really is not the case for normal customers as we're unlikely to notice a difference.
> ...



This is what I ment. I know ill still have my games and all but as is I could just barely get OnLive to work right on my moblie and I was looking forward to the Service on Ouya. What if this changes all that?


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Rasas said:


> One really has to question how bad is piracy, how much does it cost to add DRM usually, does it increase sales to add DRM since some people would be impatient and buy it instead of waiting for a crack, is DRM there for more then one reason and how many customers does a company lose when adding DRM to their games? I guess a lot of this questions have different answers considering the game/company.



The DRM isn't here to be a nuisance, it's here because it's just part of the technology. The games need an internet connection to stream the games so you must be always online. There's no point complaining about the DRM since it's not even intentional here, it just becomes part of the tech.

Although I think OnLive has been taking a pretty decent cut from each game sale on there because of the 0% piracy rate they have.


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## Pleng (Aug 19, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> knew this wouldn't last half the world can't even use it so their market was very slim



half the world isn't a very slim potential market by any means.


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## EZ-Megaman (Aug 19, 2012)

Quietlyawesome94 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like OnLive might be on OnLife support.
> ...


You might want to copyright that joke. This site used it too.
My PC isn't very strong, but I'd be reluctant in using this as my internet is even worse.


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## LightyKD (Aug 19, 2012)

Minox_IX said:


> LightyKD said:
> 
> 
> > I know. I was being a tad bit dramatic and sarcastic with my post. I'm just making fun of PC gamers who whine about how they think that OnLive ruined PC gaming. Not OnLive's or its user's fault that this faction need to justify their purchase  with some false sense of superiority. It's like PS/360 gamers getting all mad because the little 250 dollar Wii was kicking ass and taking names, Reggie style.
> ...



Never said that OnLive "Kicked anyone's ass". I was stating that PC gamers were as butthurt as PS/360 gamers because they were forced to re-evaluate their purchase, which is true. No longer could they say that you HAD to buy high end hardware to play some of the best looking games.

@[member='Zantigo']: I'm sure the OnLive/Ouya deal is still on. I doubt hey would be stupid enough to drop such a promising deal.

EZ-Megaman: You only need a 2 Mb/s connection to login to the service. You can also drop your screen resolution to help with connection issues.


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## Rasas (Aug 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Rasas said:
> 
> 
> > One really has to question how bad is piracy, how much does it cost to add DRM usually, does it increase sales to add DRM since some people would be impatient and buy it instead of waiting for a crack, is DRM there for more then one reason and how many customers does a company lose when adding DRM to their games? I guess a lot of this questions have different answers considering the game/company.
> ...


I meant PC gaming in general not Onlive since you need to stream it but I suppose it doesn't really matter since the numbers will probably never be known and other things.


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## Guild McCommunist (Aug 19, 2012)

Rasas said:


> I meant PC gaming in general not Onlive since you need to stream it but I suppose it doesn't really matter since the numbers will probably never be known and other things.



DRM has never been that popular and has actually been less popular as of late. I mean, Diablo III aside, there hasn't been a lot of it. At least in terms of your typical "always online required" variety.


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## Rasas (Aug 19, 2012)

I know it isn't popular and DRM has caused problems for certain games like Batman to not work sometimes. Never mind going to drop it. I'm not trying to argue anything and my wording most likely extremely poor and confusing you. I just would really like to see facts on if DRM actually helps at all or does more harm then good. I like to think it does more harm since people might not buy it but maybe a would be pirate would wait for a sale or just buy it to avoid the hassle etc.


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## LightyKD (Aug 20, 2012)

It's official. OnLive has been purchased by a new company but the name still stays "OnLive" and for consumers, it's business as usual.

http://onlivefans.com/news/2012/08/20/onlive-acquired-by-newly-formed-company/


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