# Nintendo secures RCM loader ban in the U.S.



## FAST6191 (Apr 23, 2021)

Aw I thought it would be fun but just a default judgment.

Anyway curious to see it all going down in the US like this. Normally they are the last place as we watch the dance play out again in the various countries in Europe, Japan or Australia.


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## CeeDee (Apr 23, 2021)

Good luck seeing this ban fully enforced - I'm sure it'll be easy enough to get ahold of an RCM loader if ya want one, albeit through more shady storefronts than Amazon. Maybe AliExpress or somethin'


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Oh God can Nintendo stop bitching around with their ip. The cfw doesn't provide pirated games, just software which doesn't make you play pirated games. Nintendo is just whining about security even though they've already won. They sue an pointlessly arrested man. It's sad how companies act, however normal rcm jogs won't be banned as it's also used for troubleshooting

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Oh wow polls


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## Hells Malice (Apr 23, 2021)

Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Hells Malice said:


> Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
> GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH


I AM THE VICTIM I JUST WANT TO USE THEMES WAH WAH


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## CeeDee (Apr 23, 2021)

Hells Malice said:


> Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
> GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH


A lot of the anti-Nintendo crowd makes Nintendo's actions out to be the end of the world, when in most of these cases... if you want an RCM loader, you'll probably still be able to get one. Same deal with fangame C&D orders or ROM site shutdowns. Not the end of the world, in my opinion, Nintendo's doin' the Nintendo thing to protect their property / appease their shareholders, and you can still get your thing if you try hard enough.


WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I AM THE VICTIM I JUST WANT TO USE THEMES WAH WAH


You CAN use themes! Black... or white?


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 23, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Oh God can Nintendo stop bitching around with their ip. The cfw doesn't provide pirated games, just software which doesn't make you play pirated games. Nintendo is just whining about security even though they've already won. They sue an pointlessly arrested man. It's sad how companies act, however normal rcm jogs won't be banned as it's also used for troubleshooting
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Oh wow polls


Let's be real here, you put cfw on your console for piracy

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

And that's fine, i cfwed my 3ds for piracy, but just don't try to act like you cfw consoles for other reasons, you aren't fooling anybody


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Let's be real here, you put cfw on your console for piracy
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> And that's fine, i cfwed my 3ds for piracy, but just don't try to act like you cfw consoles for other reasons, you aren't fooling anybody


I have a (probably) patched switch.....

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



CeeDee said:


> A lot of the anti-Nintendo crowd makes Nintendo's actions out to be the end of the world, when in most of these cases... if you want an RCM loader, you'll probably still be able to get one. Same deal with fangame C&D orders or ROM site shutdowns. Not the end of the world, in my opinion, Nintendo's doin' the Nintendo thing to protect their property / appease their shareholders, and you can still get your thing if you try hard enough.
> 
> You CAN use themes! Black... or white?


I want cfw for a slightly darker theme


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## CeeDee (Apr 23, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I have a (probably) patched switch.....


Oh, so you _wish_ you could! Nice.


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## shanefromoz (Apr 23, 2021)

Oh well i will just use my usb-c to usb-c lead and my mobile phone


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## CeeDee (Apr 23, 2021)

shanefromoz said:


> Oh well i will just use my usb-c to usb-c lead and my mobile phone


Yeah, that's another reason why this ruling isn't a huge deal - there are other ways to inject payloads.


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## AkiraKurusu (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Let's be real here, you put cfw on your console for piracy
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> And that's fine, i cfwed my 3ds for piracy, but just don't try to act like you cfw consoles for other reasons, you aren't fooling anybody


Er, no. Piracy is already disincentivised by the online ban - which means losing access to the eShop and the NSO paywall.
I, for one, use CFW for game patching and EdiZon cheats and save file backups (and FTPD for save editing using my computer).


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## Nix_Lon (Apr 23, 2021)

What did you expect from Nintendo?
At this point, I'm not surprised that they took action, just surprised that it took them years to take immediate action.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

CeeDee said:


> Oh, so you _wish_ you could! Nice.


My switch is probably patched as I got 0x0000 on fusse test but a forum told me it might be because I didn't use Zadig but who knows

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Nix_Lon said:


> What did you expect from Nintendo?
> At this point, I'm not surprised that they took action.


True, they never give up


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 23, 2021)

AkiraKurusu said:


> Er, no. Piracy is already disincentivised by the online ban - which means losing access to the eShop and the NSO paywall.
> I, for one, use CFW for game patching and EdiZon cheats and save file backups (and FTPD for save editing using my computer).


My absolute lack of knowledge of the switch scene is really showing right now


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> My absolute lack of knowledge of the switch scene is really showing right now


I have a (probably) patched switch and I know everything about the scene

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I really want to link a loader I found on Amazon but I feel it's going to be taken down


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## Louse (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Let's be real here, you put cfw on your console for piracy
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> And that's fine, i cfwed my 3ds for piracy, but just don't try to act like you cfw consoles for other reasons, you aren't fooling anybody


i like playing quake.

also thanks nintie. now everyone is gonna find like 10 other leaky holes in your box


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

This reminds me of a poll I made about them abusing copyright.

I think I was right to rig the answers


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## Sonic Angel Knight (Apr 23, 2021)

Little_Anonymous_Hacker said:


> Nintendo's request for a default judgment.


What the heck is a default judgement?


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 23, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> This reminds me of a poll I made about them abusing copyright.
> 
> I think I was right to rig the answers


It's not "abuse", technically, it's just how the copyright system works


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> What the heck is a default judgement?


It's when a judgement is made automatically

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Scott_pilgrim said:


> It's not "abuse", technically, it's just how the copyright system works


But it's mean


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## Little_Anonymous_Hacker (Apr 23, 2021)

Sonic Angel Knight said:


> What the heck is a default judgement?


It's a judgment made when a party fails to respond to a lawsuit.


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## DaFixer (Apr 23, 2021)

That sucks, anyway I got mine from aliexpress.


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## banjo2 (Apr 23, 2021)

Hells Malice said:


> Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
> GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH


They're not pirated, they're backups that I'm missing the physical copy of


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## wolf-snake (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> My absolute lack of knowledge of the switch scene is really showing right now


I mean you're not wrong. People keep saying "Ohh i just use cfw for this random thing but i totally not pirate games" but we all know they have a couple of pirate games in the system cuz "I'm just trying up the game to see if i like it so i can officially buy it"

So yeah people in here can say whatever they want to believe but deep down we all know they do it for the piracy.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

wolf-snake said:


> I mean you're not wrong. People keep saying "Ohh i just use cfw for this random thing but i totally not pirate games" but we all know they have a couple of pirate games in the system cuz "I'm just trying up the game to see if i like it so i can officially buy it"
> 
> So yeah people in here can say whatever they want to believe but deep down we all know they do it for the piracy.


I mean some use it for other things but at least 95% uses it for piracy


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## CeeDee (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> It's not "abuse", technically, it's just how the copyright system works


Yeah but when something happens that I don't like it's abuse


wolf-snake said:


> I mean you're not wrong. People keep saying "Ohh i just use cfw for this random thing but i totally not pirate games" but we all know they have a couple of pirate games in the system cuz "I'm just trying up the game to see if i like it so i can officially buy it"
> 
> So yeah people in here can say whatever they want to believe but deep down we all know they do it for the piracy.


Hell, when people say "I just wanted emulators" that's piracy too, most of yall aren't dumping old cartridges, get real. At least own up to the fact that ya wanna be a little piratin' bitch, no one here's gonna judge you, it's _GBAtemp_ for heck's sake.


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## wolf-snake (Apr 23, 2021)

CeeDee said:


> Yeah but when something happens that I don't like it's abuse
> 
> Hell, when people say "I just wanted emulators" that's piracy too, most of yall aren't dumping old cartridges, get real. At least own up to the fact that ya wanna be a little piratin' bitch, no one here's gonna judge you, it's _GBAtemp_ for heck's sake.


Yeah that was going to be my response to the other comment about 95% using homebrew for piracy, the other 5% usually argues they use cfw for emulators but somehow have every game ever released dumped and ready to go even unreleased ones.


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## tabzer (Apr 23, 2021)

Did people forget the ambitious projects like L4T Ubuntu and Android LineageOS for the Switch?  I can now play Magic the Gathering Arena on Switch.  I can also pirate Smash Bros for local play.

Also, you can still buy RCM Loaders from Amazon.  This lawsuit defaulted against one guy on a brand we don't even know about.

Fake news.


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## MikaDubbz (Apr 23, 2021)

As someone who loves to hack out his consoles and is personally annoyed by moves like this. I can't deny that I understand the merit for the move. Sucks, but I get it.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

tabzer said:


> Did people forget the ambitious projects like L4T Ubuntu and Android LineageOS for the Switch?  I can now play Magic the Gathering Arena.  I also pirated Smash Bros for local play.
> 
> Also, you can still buy RCM Loaders from Amazon.  This lawsuit defaulted against one guy on a brand we don't even know about.
> 
> Fake news.


Let's just use tinfoil so they don't send Bowser to our house

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

_I swear this better be on tempcast @AlanJohn @relauby @Ericzander and that Jordan dude_


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## banjo2 (Apr 23, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Let's just use tinfoil so they don't send Bowser to our house
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> _I swear this better be on tempcast @AlanJohn @relauby @Ericzander and that Jordan dude_


@that Jordan dude


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## Jayro (Apr 23, 2021)

Cut off the head, three more will rise. Nintendo is fighting a losing battle here. What's next, banning trinkets? banning any and all FPGAs? Banning any and all micro controllers and Arduino boards? This shit is getting ridiculous, and Nintendo is over-reaching.


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## raxadian (Apr 23, 2021)

Good thing I don't live in the USA.


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## rimoJO (Apr 23, 2021)

inb4 nintendo bans tweezers


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## Goku1992A (Apr 23, 2021)

The RCM Loader was never the problem.  It is a very essential device to have if you have a modded switch. My personal take is Nintendo should let it go why focus on a small minority of people who are not even going to buy games in the first place if you are making record breaking console sales and your game sales are doing good.

But then again the lawyer fees are a tax write off so Nintendo has nothing to lose really

I love RCM Loader I had bought 2 recently life is so much easier with it.


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## chrisrlink (Apr 23, 2021)

i swear i need to move now soon Japanese laws (including a complete ban on 3rd party repair) might happen now i won't feel bad at all if nintendo has a hacking incident as big as psn was (or even better much worse than psn and thats why folks never buyin s nintendo product again MS all the way


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## AkiraKurusu (Apr 23, 2021)

Goku1992A said:


> The RCM Loader was never the problem.  It is a very essential device to have if you have a modded switch. My personal take is Nintendo should let it go why focus on a small minority of people who are not even going to buy games in the first place if you are making record breaking console sales and your game sales are doing good.
> 
> But then again the lawyer fees are a tax write off so Nintendo has nothing to lose really
> 
> I love RCM Loader I had bought 2 recently life is so much easier with it.


I just use a cable and that Windows RCM program; works very reliably, and portability's not a factor for many reasons.


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## Xzi (Apr 23, 2021)

Rofl they're still on Amazon for $17.  Just under a different brand name.


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## Tigran (Apr 23, 2021)

Jayro said:


> Cut off the head, three more will rise. Nintendo is fighting a losing battle here. What's next, banning trinkets? banning any and all FPGAs? Banning any and all micro controllers and Arduino boards? This shit is getting ridiculous, and Nintendo is over-reaching.




It's not only that.. Also it's about showing that they are defending their IPs. if there is not enough "Defense" it can actually cause issues down the line when other people attempt to use them.

That's why a lot of fan games and such that are kept low key have no real problem, it can be argued that they didn't know it existed adn all that. 

But once it's getting huge attention, the company can no longer claim ignorance of it. *hence why Blizzard went after the huge Free servers that advertised everywhere, while ignoring the smaller servers that didn't.*


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Dollar Tree sued for selling tinfoil and paper clips


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## CanIHazWarez (Apr 23, 2021)

AkiraKurusu said:


> I just use a cable and that Windows RCM program; works very reliably, and portability's not a factor for many reasons.


Great, now they're going to ban Windows PCs.


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## AkiraKurusu (Apr 23, 2021)

CanIHazWarez said:


> Great, now they're going to ban Windows PCs.


No, they'd first go after the cables - banning PCs would be self-harm, considering most devs use them to make Switch games. You can't make a game using a cable, though.


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## chrisrlink (Apr 23, 2021)

nintendo is the only company fighting homebrew now (even sony caved with hacker one allowing devs to share the exploits after a certain timeframe after being patched) and MS gave us homebrew use on a silver platter no wonder nintendo is the most hated of the 3


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 23, 2021)

rimoJO said:


> inb4 nintendo bans tweezers


Man, that hack's almost as old as me


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## CanIHazWarez (Apr 23, 2021)

Tigran said:


> It's not only that.. Also it's about showing that they are defending their IPs. if there is not enough "Defense" it can actually cause issues down the line when other people attempt to use them.
> 
> That's why a lot of fan games and such that are kept low key have no real problem, it can be argued that they didn't know it existed adn all that.
> 
> But once it's getting huge attention, the company can no longer claim ignorance of it. *hence why Blizzard went after the huge Free servers that advertised everywhere, while ignoring the smaller servers that didn't.*


That's a bs excuse for bullying. Nintendo could sell the developer a revokable license for a dollar.  That way no one could accuse them of abandoning an ip. They don't do that, because they would rather be bullies.


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## Tigran (Apr 23, 2021)

Defending an IP and Abandoning an IP are two different things... o.O

And please, I'm really not sure what you mean by selling the developer a revocable license bit? can you please elaborate?


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## Crazynoob458 (Apr 23, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> I AM THE VICTIM I JUST WANT TO USE THEMES WAH WAH


i NEeD TJEMNARS
WHERE IS IT NONTENDOPYRD
MY #DS LOOKS METTER THEN MY SWITCHJX




now in all serousness literally they are rcm loaders i heard you can just plug it in a computer and do it there


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## banjo2 (Apr 23, 2021)

Crazynoob458 said:


> i NEeD TJEMNARS
> WHERE IS IT NONTENDOPYRD
> MY #DS LOOKS METTER THEN MY SWITCHJX
> 
> ...


bro charge your system


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## fst312 (Apr 23, 2021)

I just have a regular copper jig for the longest time. I haven’t used since autorcm though.

Let’s ban the paper clip.


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## Undwiz (Apr 23, 2021)

NS-Atomosphere injector for sale make offer ..... LOL


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## Benja81 (Apr 23, 2021)

You can still do it from a computer and even a smartphone. They can't ban those.
(knocks on wood)


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## Undwiz (Apr 23, 2021)

Benja81 said:


> You can still do it from a computer and even a smartphone. They can't ban those.
> (knocks on wood)



 Really tho .... the real target is the jig


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## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 23, 2021)

The RCMLoader is just a piece of hardware that's absolutely useless on its own. How long until they go after exhumer or totaljustice for releasing the patches to run pirated titles? Are they possibly plotting a way to take aim at atmosphere? I mean, it doesn't allow for pirated titles and isn't built using copyrighted material... But it's a custom firmware, right? Following this absolutely busted logic.. 

What, exactly, is this tool doing wrong?


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## HarveyHouston (Apr 23, 2021)

Sounds like *The Team Xecuters Takedown - Part II*. 

Nintendo is being _reeaaallly_ touchy about Switch hacking, more-so than they were about hacks for the Wii U, 3DS, DSi, and even the Wii (of which the Wii is probably the most hacked console EVER, at least for Nintendo). At this point, I wouldn't touch Switch hacks with a ten foot pole (or even a six foot pole, nowadays?  ).

Good luck to everyone who decides to mod for the Switch; I guarantee that you're going to have a difficult time doing it. Nintendo has ramped up security for the Switch models, and circumventing even a small fraction will cause Nintendo to, as the All-American Rejects so eloquently put it, "give you hell". Even if they don't file a lawsuit against you, they could lock you out of your account, and possibly disable the modded Switch unit altogether. Until Nintendo doesn't support the Switch anymore, Switch hacks will be _EXTREMELY_ difficult to pull off proper without something going wrong.

...Not that I don't approve of Switch hacks, for I do, very much - and not because I approve of piracy (for I don't), but because the homebrew community is very creative. I'm just saying that Nintendo is fighting the homebrew community over Switch hacks. My prediction is that no matter how much they try, Nintendo will eventually lose, because hackers never quit.


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## Dust2dust (Apr 23, 2021)

AkiraKurusu said:


> No, they'd first go after the cables - banning PCs would be self-harm, considering most devs use them to make Switch games. You can't make a game using a cable, though.


My god, I hope they don't ban USB-C cables!  How am I gonna charge my Switch pro controller then? Lucky that Nintendo includes one in the box.


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## Benja81 (Apr 23, 2021)

Undwiz said:


> Really tho .... the real target is the jig


Thats wild. I was thinking of the RCM loader part, but now the paperclip jokes make more sense.
I guess they can go after because its specifically designed to hack the switch. Still lame but its their IP I guess.


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## HideoKojima (Apr 23, 2021)

Well one can always us Pc or even phone to enter RCM mode.


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## MasterJ360 (Apr 23, 2021)

So whats next? Ban jigs or physically tampering our own switch? lol Nintendo needs to put all that energy in making a better console/Online. Only the OG switch models can actually use an RCM loader this is crying over expired spilled milk.


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## godreborn (Apr 23, 2021)

I just bought an rcm loader.  I know nothing about the switch hacking scene, and I haven't hacked any of mine, but I figured better buy one before they're hard to find.  I have one hackable system based on serial number that I got in 2018.


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## XDel (Apr 23, 2021)

So again, Epstein list... prolly will never come to light, and at best a few sacrificial lambs will be selected from among the elite, and those will be the only names we hear of and the only people who will serve time in prison. 

This Le Hoang Minh fellow on the other hand... well now I know his name, and he's all the way over on the other side of the world, and to the best of my knowledge, never did a damn thing to hurt anyone including myself or my potential off spring. So what gives, why am I reading about this poor soul's plight, and why is it that Nintendo and others continue to present themselves as innocent victims time and time again.


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## Deleted User (Apr 23, 2021)

No sweat, rcm loaders are completely unnecessary. Never used one in my life yet had a hacked Switch since 2018.


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## DoctorBagPhD (Apr 23, 2021)

Hells Malice said:


> Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
> GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH



Nintendo are cunts, can't blame GBAtemp users for pointing that out ¯\_( ツ)_/¯


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## Tac 21 (Apr 23, 2021)

RCM loader?aeh


whats probably MUCH harder to obtain is a pre patched switch


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## limpbiz411 (Apr 23, 2021)

Paper clips are next, that's how i hacked my switch lol


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## Deleted member 397813 (Apr 23, 2021)

just wait, they will eventually get tinfoil, paperclips and 3d printers banned too.


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## Deleted User (Apr 23, 2021)

I don't know why anyone gets mad at Nintendo. There's no telling how much money they spend on stopping piracy and obviously what they're doing doesn't work they've never had a console or handheld not be hacked so they haven't stopped anything. I laugh at them.


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## Goku1992A (Apr 23, 2021)

AkiraKurusu said:


> I just use a cable and that Windows RCM program; works very reliably, and portability's not a factor for many reasons.



I used to use the computer too and also the phone but sometimes (for me) the RCM wasn't registering but I never had a problem with the box.



JustJay said:


> I don't know why anyone gets mad at Nintendo. There's no telling how much money they spend on stopping piracy and obviously what they're doing doesn't work they've never had a console or handheld not be hacked so they haven't stopped anything. I laugh at them.



I'm going to disagree with you here. Nintendo has been doing a GREAT JOB combatting piracy this generation, To date the V2 switches require a modchip and Nintendo already shut down SXOS and it is really hard to get a modchip nowadays nor find someone who is willing to risk it all to install them. We used to have a user here that used to install modchips however Nintendo hit him with a cease and desist. 

I think that guy ran off with a few people switches and never returned them. So Nintendo has been working overtime on this but in this situation the RCM loader is only for V1 switches you don't need a RCM loader for modchips and you can toggle into RCM for free from the computer or an android phone. That's why idk why Nintendo is pursing this. 

To even buy a RCM loader from aliexpress you need to wait 2 months to get one


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## bobmcjr (Apr 23, 2021)

inb4 Le is an agent of Nintendo playing the role of a modchip exporter so Nintendo could get a predictable legal ruling in their favor.


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## Teletron1 (Apr 23, 2021)

I had a feeling big N would eventually go after them , they come preloaded with sw    can’t give them an excuse


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## Viri (Apr 23, 2021)

Seems like a waste of effort, as you can RCM your Switch with your phone and PC.


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## Deleted User (Apr 23, 2021)

To be fair, if I were part of Nintendo's Management I also would recognise the breadth of the Corporation I'm working for. Even the smallest efforts to continually protect the company's IPs would also be on my agenda, despite it being repetitive.

Besides, the United States legal system has always been good to Nintendo, hence the immortalised Kirby of gratitude.

They didn't pursue this in the Vietnamese courts so, if anything, complaints should be directed appropriately, to the corresponding judicial system ...


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## NoobletCheese (Apr 23, 2021)

I suppose it's similar enough to a modchip to fall into a similar category, along with drug paraphernalia.

I probably disagree with the illegality of both.


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## wownmnpare (Apr 23, 2021)

Idc. As long as there is other ways like tegra rcm or rekado. I'm good.


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## BaamAlex (Apr 23, 2021)

What comes next? Smartphones? I mean, when you speak with nintendos words, you can send payloads to circumvent/compromise the switch's operating system xD


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## Steel-Winged_Pegasus (Apr 23, 2021)

This only reminds me of that time I was window shopping on Amazon for stuff, and I saw an RCM loader that advertised itself as a "Bluetooth audio receiver" for the Switch.  I get why the seller would do that, but... still, it gave me a good chuckle.

But meh, people have other ways of getting into RCM, anyways. First time I did, I used some tinfoil on a JoyCon rail. Decided to get an RCM loader eventually, though.


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## BaamAlex (Apr 23, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> My switch is probably patched as I got 0x0000 on fusse test but a forum told me it might be because I didn't use Zadig but who knows


It's not a driver issue. 0x0000 means, your unit is definitely patched.


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## DuoForce (Apr 23, 2021)

_Laughs in paperclip_


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## BitMasterPlus (Apr 23, 2021)

Digital Pirates: *Every time you strike us down, we just come back stronger!!!!!*


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## CloudStrife190100 (Apr 23, 2021)

I use my phone anyway


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## ZeroT21 (Apr 23, 2021)

Guess whoever needs one now would probably make one with a 3D printer


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## kumikochan (Apr 23, 2021)

The thing is that this is also the reason why Nintendo consoles get hacked way more as any other console. The more ill will you create with certain groups, the more likely they will do their utmost best to hack it. We've seen this with the ps3 when linux couldn't be installed anymore and seen this the most with Nintendo consoles due to many reasons. One being the miss use of fair use policy, taking down mods and fan games, constant sueing literally everyone and mostly their anti consumer stance. In the long run because of these actions we will see every single nintendo branded console being hacker future wise


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## Espen84 (Apr 23, 2021)

Oh no!! How the hell am I supposed to send payload to my switch now?? Oh, I forgot I own a computer, and a cell phone and another thing I do not live in the US.


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## DoubleDate (Apr 23, 2021)

kumikochan said:


> The thing is that this is also the reason why Nintendo consoles get hacked way more as any other console. The more ill will you create with certain groups, the more likely they will do their utmost best to hack it. We've seen this with the ps3 when linux couldn't be installed anymore and seen this the most with Nintendo consoles due to many reasons. One being the miss use of fair use policy, taking down mods and fan games, constant sueing literally everyone and mostly their anti consumer stance. In the long run because of these actions we will see every single nintendo branded console being hacker future wise



Not coming over as rude, but i dont agree. The most probably reason why, is because the security lacked way too much on the past consoles. Sony and Microsoft has  a very hard security mechanism that still to this day the case remains the same as back as 2013 with the PS3, only a certain firmware is exploitable while with Nintendo any firmware works. Nintendo is now trying to catchup and secure their system better and people get offended and angry because " muh warez"

They are doing what they are entitled to. Nintendo is changing with time and we are no longer around the era where all their system were easy exploidable and free online. The thing is Sony and Microsoft hits more harder the banhammer than Nintendo and nobody says anything about it but when Nintendo does it everyone saying how a bad company Nintendo is for defending and protecting their business.


----------



## DNStuff (Apr 23, 2021)

I am super glad he is in Vietnam and that there are counties where a DMCA means nothing but with this result I can already see that the SXOS outcome will be a very bad one too. It's my console, if I want to run homebrew on it let me. Nintendo never gave me the option to change wallpapers, only still two colours for the background in 2021. So I should be able to do with my console whatever I want, it doesn't always mean it's piracy but for them hacking always must mean piracy.


----------



## MiiJack (Apr 23, 2021)

Piracy bad. Where's my upvote.


----------



## DoubleDate (Apr 23, 2021)

DNStuff said:


> I am super glad he is in Vietnam and that there are counties where a DMCA means nothing but with this result I can already see that the SXOS outcome will be a very bad one too. It's my console, if I want to run homebrew on it let me. Nintendo never gave me the option to change wallpapers, only still two colours for the background in 2021. So I should be able to do with my console whatever I want, it doesn't always mean it's piracy but for them hacking always must mean piracy.



Come one mate, almost 98% of people put homebrew on Nintendo consoles to be able to play released games. I dont buy for it to be just homebrew. You put a few emulators on it and you play some old games from 20-30 years ago? People get bored pretty quickly of it because those games are old. Im sure to tell you that when the new Pokemon RPG is released next year here will be a lot of topics regarding the game.

Of course you can do what you want with your system but your are breaking the law by installing unauthorized software that doesnt have its intended legal purpose and that is where Nintendo steps in.

People needs just to admit that they like free warez and dont hide behind the homebrew or gaming preserving thing.


----------



## Naendow (Apr 23, 2021)

Glad you can use nearly every devices as a rcm loader.


----------



## AkiraKurusu (Apr 23, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Come one mate, almost 98% of people put homebrew on Nintendo consoles to be able to play released games. I dont buy for it to be just homebrew. You put a few emulators on it and you play some old games from 20-30 years ago? People get bored pretty quickly of it because those games are old. Im sure to tell you that when the new Pokemon RPG is released next year here will be a lot of topics regarding the game.
> 
> Of course you can do what you want with your system but your are breaking the law by installing unauthorized software that doesnt have its intended legal purpose and that is where Nintendo steps in.
> 
> People needs just to admit that they like free warez and dont hide behind the homebrew or gaming preserving thing.


A) Replaying games is a thing people tend to do, y'know, and there's been a good number of great games these last few years that don't need emulation. Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade: DE, Xenoblade 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Persona 5 Royal, Zero Escape: The Nonary Games, Pikmin 3, etc. So that "emulate decades-old games OR piracy" thing is totally inaccurate.

B) Pokémon will likely get new topics because of how shit it has become since moving to the Switch - not because people actually want to play them.

C) Some people legitimately do only use CFW for homebrew, not for piracy, so it's not "hiding behind an excuse", thank you very much.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Apr 23, 2021)

nintendo the new soviet union!


----------



## tabzer (Apr 23, 2021)

Memoir said:


> The RCMLoader is just a piece of hardware that's absolutely useless on its own. How long until they go after exhumer or totaljustice for releasing the patches to run pirated titles? Are they possibly plotting a way to take aim at atmosphere? I mean, it doesn't allow for pirated titles and isn't built using copyrighted material... But it's a custom firmware, right? Following this absolutely busted logic..
> 
> What, exactly, is this tool doing wrong?



NOTHING.  The guy didn't show up for court.  That's all.  Nintendo is using its right to intimidate people via law.


----------



## DoubleDate (Apr 23, 2021)

AkiraKurusu said:


> A) Replaying games is a thing people tend to do, y'know, and there's been a good number of great games these last few years that don't need emulation. Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade: DE, Xenoblade 2, Ghost of Tsushima, Persona 5 Royal, Zero Escape: The Nonary Games, Pikmin 3, etc. So that "emulate decades-old games OR piracy" thing is totally inaccurate.
> 
> B) Pokémon will likely get new topics because of how shit it has become since moving to the Switch - not because people actually want to play them.
> 
> C) Some people legitimately do only use CFW for homebrew, not for piracy, so it's not "hiding behind an excuse", thank you very much.



How do you know people dont want to play it? Have you seen the comments of the new upcoming Pokemon game Pokemon Arceus? 95% of the comments are positive about how people want to play the game and how well it looks, so that there contradicts your comment.

The games you mentioned are new full games released for the Switch, what i was referring too was to the homebrew emulators, what people who say they use homebrew for. Those games are fair old, and of course people tend to replay it because it has some personal and important value to their lives but we both know that homebrew, most of the case is to play the Switch libraries games.

There may be a select few who may just use it for themes and other things  yet that is something that is againts the ToS of the Nintendo Switch.

Look at the new topics of commenters here when a new firmware gets released, people wondering if Atmosphere or SX OS still works.

Nintendo has all the right to defend their console, same thing what Sony and Microsoft are doing.


----------



## ELY_M (Apr 23, 2021)

this ban is UNCONSTITIONUAL!!!!!    a company CAN NOT control what people do with the devices!!!!


----------



## urherenow (Apr 23, 2021)

CeeDee said:


> Good luck seeing this ban fully enforced - I'm sure it'll be easy enough to get ahold of an RCM loader if ya want one, albeit through more shady storefronts than Amazon. Maybe AliExpress or somethin'


Wait, what? What's wrong with AliExpress? I've used them many times for components. USB ports, Ethernet ports, capacitors, probably some Raspberry Pi stuff... Never had an issue. Never received a substandard product. One of the first entries I just got from Google was:

Contrary to popular belief, buying from AliExpress is very safe. In fact, it's probably safer than shopping from Ebay because of their buyer protection program. AliExpress guarantees that if your product doesn't arrive on time or as described in the listing, you can get a full refund.




AkiraKurusu said:


> Er, no. Piracy is already disincentivised by the online ban - which means losing access to the eShop and the NSO paywall.
> I, for one, use CFW for game patching and EdiZon cheats and save file backups (and FTPD for save editing using my computer).


Actually, the online ban FORCES piracy. I personally like to use emulators. I also don't have patience to grind through newer games, so I use cheats to get through them faster. I have been careful, so my console is not banned, but if it does get banned, piracy would be the only way to update games I already own. Not to mention, my local store has a new game that only comes with a download code in the box.

I can understand banning modified consoles from playing games online, but that should be a completely separate thing from the eshop. Preventing someone from being able to purchase a game and/or grab updates for it is a whole different level of stupid.


----------



## tabzer (Apr 23, 2021)

urherenow said:


> Wait, what? What's wrong with AliExpress? I've used them many times for components. USB ports, Ethernet ports, capacitors, probably some Raspberry Pi stuff... Never had an issue. Never received a substandard product. One of the first entries I just got from Google was:
> 
> Contrary to popular belief, buying from AliExpress is very safe. In fact, it's probably safer than shopping from Ebay because of their buyer protection program. AliExpress guarantees that if your product doesn't arrive on time or as described in the listing, you can get a full refund.
> 
> ...



You can get adrenochrome there too.


----------



## Jaxom (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Let's be real here, you put cfw on your console for piracy
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> And that's fine, i cfwed my 3ds for piracy, but just don't try to act like you cfw consoles for other reasons, you aren't fooling anybody


I actually put CFW on some of my console for different reasons.

When I was in high school, for instance, I put CFW on my PSP because I wasn't earning any money to buy games regularly, so ISOs were my best friend. This led to a lot of hours playing untranslated RPGs and helping me to improve a lot on my English reading and speaking skills.

I later put a CFW on my PSVita to have access to somes PSP games I bought legally on the PSStore (because yes, although I wasn't able to pay for all the games I played in high school, I still bought some of them to support the devs and services provided) and that weren't allowed to run "officially" on my Vita (Phantasy Star Portable was the main reason).

I CFWed my WII U to emulate my GameCube and use the HDMI output of the console to play games I do own and wanted to play with a better display, and also to dump my physical WII U games on my HDD to take advantages of shorter loading times.

And it was nearly the same reasons that motivated me for my 3DS (dump my physical games to have access to them without having to bring dozens of boxes with me, making the CPU run a little faster, build my own themes, etc.).

In the end I think that the people using CFW for piracy are the ones who aren't able to buy the games they want to play without sacrificing their access to food, health or something else that's more important. When money doesn't matter, you can spend it however you want, making piracy irrelevant, especially with the last console generation, for which you have to follow a lot of constraints before being able to throw yourself into piracy.


----------



## Skelletonike (Apr 23, 2021)

People are way too spoiled and complain about too much shit.
If people are afraid of getting sued, then don't dip your hands in grey areas. Simple.

I believe this is more about making an example than anything else and I see nothing wrong with it.
Feel free to sell whatever you want, but if it's a grey area, don't complain if something happens.


----------



## Dust2dust (Apr 23, 2021)

JustJay said:


> ... obviously what they're doing doesn't work they've never had a console or handheld not be hacked so they haven't stopped anything.





kumikochan said:


> In the long run because of these actions we will see every single nintendo branded console being hacker future wise


As a couple of users pointed out, Nintendo did a great job, actually, with the security of the Switch.  It only got hacked early because of a screw-up from Nvidia, not Nintendo's fault.  The later models (what's sold in stores now) is not hackable. Only a modchip can do it, and they have successfully shut down the plant making them... very wise of them!  I believe the next Nintendo console will probably be as secure as Fort Knox. They're getting good at this!  One thing is for sure... buy early and don't update, if you want a chance.


----------



## Deleted member 514389 (Apr 23, 2021)

Next ban Smartphones and Tablets, also PCs while you are at it.

Hmmm... 
Ah yes. Trinkets, need to ban those aswell.

Breaking news!
Nintendo banned everything




Dust2dust said:


> y're getting good at this!  One thing is for sure... buy early and don't update, if you want a chance.



Took em long enough...

Well.. 20 years I've been along for the ride.
And finally the Church of Nintendo managed to make me a devote Ninten-sumer.
By Iwata have I seen the light


----------



## anhminh (Apr 23, 2021)

No wonder everyone here pirate the shit out of everything. For one I glad to be a Vietnamese.


----------



## thesjaakspoiler (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Let's be real here, you put cfw on your console for piracy


Actually I put CFW on my console to also be able to use it as a portable videoplayer for my kids.
But putting the CFW on it also caused it to get banned.
And that was stupid of Nintendo because even if I wanted to buy some games online, they just prevent me from doing so.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Apr 23, 2021)

Tigran said:


> It's not only that.. Also it's about showing that they are defending their IPs. if there is not enough "Defense" it can actually cause issues down the line when other people attempt to use them.
> 
> That's why a lot of fan games and such that are kept low key have no real problem, it can be argued that they didn't know it existed adn all that.
> 
> But once it's getting huge attention, the company can no longer claim ignorance of it. *hence why Blizzard went after the huge Free servers that advertised everywhere, while ignoring the smaller servers that didn't.*


Pretty sure that's trademark law. With copyright, you could wait 30 years to sue somebody and still win. K


----------



## SkittleDash (Apr 23, 2021)

I bet even their lawyers are getting tired of the lawsuits. Next thing in the morning, they're going to have a request asking them to fight for the ban of 3D printers.


----------



## WiiMiiSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

SkittleDash said:


> I bet even their lawyers are getting tired of the lawsuits. Next thing in the morning, they're going to have a request asking them to fight for the ban of 3D printers.


Paper clips and tinfoil


----------



## Der_Blockbuster (Apr 23, 2021)

Can't wait for Nintendo to ban Phones because it can inject payloads...


----------



## VashTS (Apr 23, 2021)

guess they have to ban Android phones next, since they do the SAME EXACT THING. 

this precedent is garbage. its not what you do with the RCM loader, they should be judging how it functions - by itself, it cannot cause piracy or circumvent any copy protections. 

an RCM loader plugged in a switch does absolutely nothing to it. i had 2 of these, i should've held onto them lol


----------



## Goku1992A (Apr 23, 2021)

thesjaakspoiler said:


> Actually I put CFW on my console to also be able to use it as a portable videoplayer for my kids.
> But putting the CFW on it also caused it to get banned.
> And that was stupid of Nintendo because even if I wanted to buy some games online, they just prevent me from doing so.



More than likely your switch wasn't dual booted if it was you wouldn't have gotten banned. 

For me personally I have bought games and I do pirate games. Some games I purchased was because the games I pirated and I really enjoyed it so I had bought a physical copy to support the DEVS. I think the main problem with this is the price point if the games were a little cheaper some people wouldn't be inclined to pirate. All my PS4/XB1 games I own the prices for those games are dirt cheap but ironally Nintendo games are super expensive and they hardly/never go on sale.  

I still prefer the RCM loader over the android the box is more efficient it's a good thing that I bought 2 because I knew something like this was going to happen!


----------



## linuxares (Apr 23, 2021)

This ruling is following the DMCA. So it aint surprising really.


----------



## lemonmaster (Apr 23, 2021)

If we take every "exploitative" tool and just immediately justify it for piracy so it can be taken down, what would we have left?


----------



## Spider_Man (Apr 23, 2021)

Nintendo should focus more on making better/new games.

All this money and effort to stop people pirating old shit ports, when its dead cheap to buy on the original console.

Bet any money we will hear the same bullshit lie when it comes to the next console.... we promise to improve our games and better support.


----------



## godreborn (Apr 23, 2021)

lmao.  my rcm loader has shipped.  I should get it in a week or so.  I won't mention where I got it in case Nintendo is reading these posts.


----------



## RednaxelaNnamtra (Apr 23, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> There may be a select few who may just use it for themes and other things  yet that is something that is againts the ToS of the Nintendo Switch.
> 
> Look at the new topics of commenters here when a new firmware gets released, people wondering if Atmosphere or SX OS still works.
> 
> Nintendo has all the right to defend their console, same thing what Sony and Microsoft are doing.


In many countries the tos is not really that importent, exept for using the online service, since you don't need to agree to the tos to buy the switch.
I also don't think its just "a few selected modders", I helped mutliple friends to mod their consoles, and most of them did it for things like save game backups, custom themes,  overclocking or streaming, those are just some nice features, nintendo doesn't deliver.
Another thing is, that people modding their console to pirate most of the time just don't earn the money to buy games regurlarly, so its not even really a lost sale.
I don't think its good that hardware that just allows custom firmware gets banned, when its not actively promoted to be used for piracy like sxos was, but thats atleast just the us in this case.

Also to the people saying paperclips and smartphones will be next, and don't say it as a joke, the difference is, that this rcm loader is specifically designed for switch modding, while smartphones being able to inject payloads is just a byproduct of its feature set.


----------



## BvanBart (Apr 23, 2021)

2500 or the risk for a higher fine? I would know what I would choose


----------



## SkyDX (Apr 23, 2021)

How's the legal status of these in the EU?


----------



## TomSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Why they didn't go after the jig seller, that is more essential to going into RCM mode.


----------



## cucholix (Apr 23, 2021)

Will buy one just in case

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



TomSwitch said:


> Why they didn't go after the jig seller, that is more essential to going into RCM mode.


They can fill a case against paper clips makers too


----------



## TomSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

Anyway atmosphere is so stable, injection isn't needed that often, no need to be able to do that on the go.


----------



## digipimp75 (Apr 23, 2021)

Meh, just install a trinket.   It's better than a clunky dongle anyway.


----------



## TomSwitch (Apr 23, 2021)

cucholix said:


> Will buy one just in case
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


Paper clips makers can't be sued successfully otherwise there will be no guns in USA for the crazy. If you can remove paper clips for this reason you can remove anything.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Der_Blockbuster said:


> Can't wait for Nintendo to ban Phones because it can inject payloads...


Phone is a serious threat to Nintendo. I used to laugh at Steve Job when he said iphone will be the gaming platform of choice. I think it is now.

By the way I think people jailbreak their iPhone for many reasons just like people who inject payload into their switch for many reasons.


----------



## |<roni&g (Apr 23, 2021)

So these RCM loaders play backups? Surprised I hadn't heard of these yet. I have newer model that I don't play because I only play 'hacked" Nintendo consoles for the most part


----------



## cucholix (Apr 23, 2021)

These dongles ship with Gateway payload, the ban doesn't seem unreasonable. I think that's the main issue here.


----------



## BigOnYa (Apr 23, 2021)

Enable auto RCM, change your "reboot to payload.bin" to "hekate.bin", and you hardly ever need the Jig and injector again. I haven't had to use it in almost 4 months now.


----------



## The Real Jdbye (Apr 23, 2021)

shanefromoz said:


> Oh well i will just use my usb-c to usb-c lead and my mobile phone


Sshhh, they're gonna ban phones next.


----------



## SaberLilly (Apr 23, 2021)

well i'm not surprised nintendo went for a ban on this loader, i'm also not surprised the only thing they used as an argument boils down to "this is purely a piracy device, and we don't like it." I mean i wouldn't use it for piracy, i like buying games. I just want the homebrew.


----------



## CanIHazWarez (Apr 23, 2021)

Tigran said:


> Defending an IP and Abandoning an IP are two different things... o.O
> 
> And please, I'm really not sure what you mean by selling the developer a revocable license bit? can you please elaborate?


If someone is developing a fan game, and Nintendo finds out, they will send them a cease and desist order.  People will defend that by saying that Nintendo can legally lose their copyright by not defending against infringement (technically true).  But Nintendo could sell the developer a license to use Nintendo IP and then Nintendo would not be at risk of losing their copyright because the developer is longer infringing (they have a license to use the IP from Nintendo).  Now obviously, this isn't an actual business deal on Nintendo's part and they wouldn't want to just let people use their IP for anything (see Zelda: Wand of Gamalon).  So they can have a clause in the license saying that Nintendo can revoke it at any time, for any reason, without notice.  That way, the fan can continue working on their game and Nintendo doesn't risk losing their IP.


----------



## TheZander (Apr 23, 2021)

Couldn't they drop the nintendo switch part and call it a tesla rcm loader. Or Nvidia whatever


----------



## GoldenBullet (Apr 23, 2021)

In Nintendo's defense, all they have to do is look at one of our polls saying 90 percent of users use cfw for piracy.
Though, trying to ban something that is not directly correlated with it is pretty bad


----------



## TJHeartnote (Apr 23, 2021)

I plan on buying one whilst I still can.


----------



## BigOnYa (Apr 23, 2021)

Silly because you can buy a trinket from Microcenter/ Amazon/ Ebay and do the same thing a injector does. I foresee the price of the RCMLoader going crazy because of this, while you can get a trinket for less than $20 USD. There's even many free .STL designs online for 3D printer people who want to make a case for the trinkets.


----------



## Jokey_Carrot (Apr 23, 2021)

Aliexpress don't care.


----------



## smallissue (Apr 23, 2021)

Steel-Winged_Pegasus said:


> This only reminds me of that time I was window shopping on Amazon for stuff, and I saw an RCM loader that advertised itself as a "Bluetooth audio receiver" for the Switch.  I get why the seller would do that, but... still, it gave me a good chuckle.
> 
> But meh, people have other ways of getting into RCM, anyways. First time I did, I used some tinfoil on a JoyCon rail. Decided to get an RCM loader eventually, though.


POV: He doesn't know the nintendo switch can do usb audio, which can receive bluetooth audio with some fancy components, therefore you can use bluetooth audio on your switch. What a dumbass


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 23, 2021)

Weird how no one has pointed out how funny it would be if they went after paperclip makers


----------



## slaphappygamer (Apr 23, 2021)

So, uh, should be buy up all the usbC cables before those get banned?


Asking for a friend.


----------



## banjo2 (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Weird how no one has pointed out how funny it would be if they went after paperclip makers


You know, it would be funny if they banned paperclips, maybe phones too, Nintendo really has gone downhill since GameCube


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Apr 23, 2021)

cucholix said:


> These dongles ship with Gateway payload, the ban doesn't seem unreasonable. I think that's the main issue here.


Ah.. I guess I overlooked that. That would definitely make more sense.


----------



## Mrperson0 (Apr 23, 2021)

cucholix said:


> These dongles ship with Gateway payload, the ban doesn't seem unreasonable. I think that's the main issue here.



If that is the case, makes sense why Nintendo is able to go after them. Nintendo probably wouldn't have a case if they didn't come with payloads.



TomSwitch said:


> Why they didn't go after the jig seller, that is more essential to going into RCM mode.



Probably since jigs don't have payloads bundled with them.


----------



## chrisrlink (Apr 23, 2021)

Mrperson0 said:


> If that is the case, makes sense why Nintendo is able to go after them. Nintendo probably wouldn't have a case if they didn't come with payloads.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably since jigs don't have payloads bundled with them.


so easy solution rebrand and don't ship with payloads installed (not even atmosphere to be safe) and if they go after that,good counter argument right there


----------



## SpiffyJUNIOR (Apr 23, 2021)

lol completely useless ban, good luck enforcing this


----------



## CanIHazWarez (Apr 23, 2021)

Spoiler


----------



## godreborn (Apr 23, 2021)

the irony here is that Nintendo's actions brought awareness to this product.  I had no idea this existed, because I haven't been following the switch scene, so thank you, Nintendo!


----------



## TheZander (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> Weird how no one has pointed out how funny it would be if they went after paperclip makers


https://gbatemp.net/posts/9450530/


----------



## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 23, 2021)

TheZander said:


> https://gbatemp.net/members/wiimiiswitch.546149/


It was a joke since like 20000 people made that exact joke


----------



## TheZander (Apr 23, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> It was a joke since like 20000 people made that exact joke


Well i fucked that one up then


----------



## Steel-Winged_Pegasus (Apr 23, 2021)

smallissue said:


> POV: He doesn't know the nintendo switch can do usb audio, which can receive bluetooth audio with some fancy components, therefore you can use bluetooth audio on your switch. What a dumbass



Pardon me if I read it wrong, but I assume that little jab is at the seller?  Jokes fly way over my head on the Internet via text a lot of the time, lol, so if it was, ignore everything else after this. If that was directed at me, well... I actually do have a BT audio receiver for my Switch, so don't think I don't know.

Still, calling an RCM loader a BT audio receiver is... definitely a way to try to skirt around getting caught by Nintendo, even if it doesn't work. My BT audio receiver is one of those cheapo ones from eBay, and it looks fairly similar to my RCM loader, if you were to cover up the "RCM loader" logo, haha, so some confused parent might get suckered into that. No idea if that attempt actually did work, but I wouldn't be surprised if the seller disappeared from Amazon even before this "ban" started.


----------



## smallissue (Apr 23, 2021)

Steel-Winged_Pegasus said:


> Pardon me if I read it wrong, but I assume that little jab is at the seller?  Jokes fly way over my head on the Internet via text a lot of the time, lol, so if it was, ignore everything else after this. If that was directed at me, well... I actually do have a BT audio receiver for my Switch, so don't think I don't know.
> 
> Still, calling an RCM loader a BT audio receiver is... definitely a way to try to skirt around getting caught by Nintendo, even if it doesn't work. My BT audio receiver is one of those cheapo ones from eBay, and it looks fairly similar to my RCM loader, if you were to cover up the "RCM loader" logo, haha, so some confused parent might get suckered into that. No idea if that attempt actually did work, but I wouldn't be surprised if the seller disappeared from Amazon even before this "ban" started.


Wait...
So you have a bt audio receiver for your Switch??
what if someone bought it thinking it actually does do bluetooth audio and got scammed


----------



## Clydefrosch (Apr 23, 2021)

still doesn't make any sense.
while the purpose of the device is obvious, as it's sold, without payloads, it does not do what nintendo claims on it's own, it's just a board with some buttons and a usb c connector.

any smartphone can also be an injector and they couldn't ban sales of those on these grounds.


----------



## Mrperson0 (Apr 23, 2021)

Clydefrosch said:


> while the purpose of the device is obvious, *as it's sold, without payloads*,



One user said it comes with the Gateway payload though. Maybe some sellers did indeed have the SX OS payload, which is why they were successfully sued by Nintendo?


----------



## jellybeangreen2 (Apr 23, 2021)

I ordered an RCMLoader One this morning and had it sent via same day shipping from Amazon. - I now have one for when I switch from SXOS to Atmosphere and they're impossible to get hold of.


----------



## tabzer (Apr 23, 2021)

Clydefrosch said:


> still doesn't make any sense.
> while the purpose of the device is obvious, as it's sold, without payloads, it does not do what nintendo claims on it's own, it's just a board with some buttons and a usb c connector.
> 
> any smartphone can also be an injector and they couldn't ban sales of those on these grounds.





Mrperson0 said:


> One user said it comes with the Gateway payload though. Maybe some sellers did indeed have the SX OS payload, which is why they were successfully sued by Nintendo?



Nintendo can sue Sega because they make videogames too.  If Sega doesn't show up to court to defend themselves legally, then a default judgement is awarded to Nintendo.

Even if Nintendo is wrong, it doesn't even matter.


----------



## WARIOTOPANWA (Apr 23, 2021)

.


----------



## jesus96 (Apr 24, 2021)

So having a usb c cable and a pc is illegal as well?


----------



## MrCokeacola (Apr 24, 2021)

*Nintendo secures RCM loader ban

Oh no!
*
*in the U.S.*


----------



## RHOPKINS13 (Apr 24, 2021)

This is complete bullshit. The RCM Loader is not "enabling" piracy. Any potential lawsuit should be avoided by simply not including any CFW pre-loaded on the device. Aside from that, RCM Loader is a glorified microcontroller and rechargeable battery.

What's Nintendo going to ban next? Paper clips and USB-C cables that could be used to send payloads to the Switch?

Sure, almost nobody with an RCM Loader is using it without involving piracy, but there are legitimate uses, like running Linux or Android.

If Nintendo wants to go after SX OS, that's fine, they were including keys that were owned by Nintendo, with the sole purpose of enabling piracy. Going after Atmosphere doesn't really work, because Atmosphere by itself doesn't enable piracy. If anything, Nintendo should go after the people releasing sigpatches for Atmosphere. But of course they're not going to waste their time with that because the software can easily be copied and distributed on all sorts of file-sharing hosts.


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## banjo2 (Apr 24, 2021)

This is getting worse than firmware update threads


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## smf (Apr 24, 2021)

Steel-Winged_Pegasus said:


> Still, calling an RCM loader a BT audio receiver is... definitely a way to try to skirt around getting caught by Nintendo,



There are loads of ways to avoid laws, but advertising it as a BT audio receiver is unlikely to get many sales.



Clydefrosch said:


> still doesn't make any sense.
> while the purpose of the device is obvious, as it's sold, without payloads, it does not do what nintendo claims on it's own, it's just a board with some buttons and a usb c connector.
> 
> any smartphone can also be an injector and they couldn't ban sales of those on these grounds.



If it wasn't sold as RCM loader, like if it was an existing product that people said to buy (like the teensy during the ps3) and someone else just produced free software, then sure nintendo couldn't get a ban on it.

But if the seller went around telling people (even in secret) that it could run payloads in any way then expect a ban.



RHOPKINS13 said:


> This is complete bullshit. The RCM Loader is not "enabling" piracy. Any potential lawsuit should be avoided by simply not including any CFW pre-loaded on the device. Aside from that, RCM Loader is a glorified microcontroller and rechargeable battery.



Guns are just lumps of metal, drugs are just chemicals. What it is advertised as is quite important.



RHOPKINS13 said:


> What's Nintendo going to ban next? Paper clips and USB-C cables that could be used to send payloads to the Switch?



No, but they could ban you telling people exactly how to bend the paperclip or the software to run on a PC.

You know Nintendo don't just get to decide what can be banned? The DMCA has allowed them to do this for two decades.



RHOPKINS13 said:


> Sure, almost nobody with an RCM Loader is using it without involving piracy, but there are legitimate uses, like running Linux or Android.



The law accepts that some products could have legitimate use, but being able to run Linux or Android on a games console is not seen as important enough. If you don't like it then don't buy a games console to run Linux or Android (or at least don't complain if it turns out to require something illegal).



RHOPKINS13 said:


> Going after Atmosphere doesn't really work, because Atmosphere by itself doesn't enable piracy.



I don't believe it needs to enable piracy to break the law, the way it derives the keys is probably enough. The non commercial nature of atmosphere is more likely why it hasn't been taken down. Although maybe it's just that Nintendo are slow to act.


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## slaphappygamer (Apr 24, 2021)

THIS JUST IN!!!

Nintendo bans words, because some written instructions CAN lead to piracy.


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## DrunkenMonk (Apr 24, 2021)

So after actually reading the ruling, it's a default judgement in favor of Nintendo (that has no implications on anything else by the way) due to the lack of response from the guy in China who didn't even acknowledge there was a case against him in the US to begin with, nevermind actually holding a defence. 
People are misconstruing the injuction and ruling big time ‍

TL;DR
The judge ruled in favour of the only side that said anything. (I know right? Who would've guessed!)


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## mmz16x (Apr 24, 2021)

Just another crybaby act by N


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## ELY_M (Apr 24, 2021)

I am very super pissed off.   I wish TRump is still president!!!!     I would tell trump to repeal this copyright crap and DMCA crap


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## PoiRan (Apr 24, 2021)

I guess I'll put one of these on my list of things to buy, I just WISH I could find a reseller. Or use Rekado, never heard of it until Nintendo banned this rcm loader.

Seriosuly though, is there a chance of  a Streisand effect here? A lot of people I know don't even know you could hack a switch, and how easy it is if you have the right version. After reading in big media about Team Xecuter some friends have asked me about how they could hack their switch.

I can understand Nintendo doing this though, xecuter ban, but most easily hackable consoles are old and hacked already (or wont be in years) and the only real way to stop piracy is probably online validation, requiring internet to play.


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## campbell0505 (Apr 24, 2021)

oh well, i already have one + dont live in US


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## I_AM_L_FORCE (Apr 24, 2021)

Hells Malice said:


> Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
> GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH


Understandable for SX which was quite literally advertised as a piracy solution, however RCM loader in & of itself only boots payloads, like Hekate or Linux... What you going to ban PCs and smartphones too?


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## slaphappygamer (Apr 24, 2021)

Let’s just ban the internet already. Cmon Nintendo, you know the real problem.


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## g00s3y (Apr 24, 2021)

It's like this thread is full of children...

It's illegal, we all know why, stop playing dumb.


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## Deleted member 514389 (Apr 24, 2021)

Clydefrosch said:


> still doesn't make any sense.
> while the purpose of the device is obvious, as it's sold, without payloads, it does not do what nintendo claims on it's own, it's just a board with some buttons and a usb c connector.
> 
> any smartphone can also be an injector and they couldn't ban sales of those on these grounds.



Wait yours came without payloads ? Odd.



g00s3y said:


> It's like this thread is full of children...
> 
> It's illegal, we all know why, stop playing dumb.


Technically speaking, /now/ it indeed. Is.

TBH, this is just like back in the days, when Ninty banned the R4.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do it to "appease" their investors...
>There, we DID something, happy now ?<

Only 15.000.000 Switches are hackable eitherhow, so piracy is kinda backed in a corner for now.

(That might be the first time ever that Nintendo actually... won)



ELY_M said:


> I am very super pissed off.   I wish TRamp is still president!!!!     I would tell tramp to repeal this copyright crap and DMCA crap


I hoped to have to never hear that name ever again.
Mood.


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## Dust2dust (Apr 24, 2021)

godreborn said:


> the irony here is that Nintendo's actions brought awareness to this product.  I had no idea this existed, because I haven't been following the switch scene, so thank you, Nintendo!


Same exact story when I first heard about the R4 cart for the DS.  I had absolutely no idea it existed, then I read about Nintendo trying  to ban R4s.  A quick google search and I ordered an R4 cart the same day.   But to be fair, the R4 was much more copyright infringing than the RCM loader is.


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## godreborn (Apr 24, 2021)

Dust2dust said:


> Same exact story when I first heard about the R4 cart for the DS.  I had absolutely no idea it existed, then I read about Nintendo trying  to ban R4s.  A quick google search and I ordered an R4 cart the same day.   But to be fair, the R4 was much more copyright infringing than the RCM loader is.



looks like I'm in the clear, because my rcm loader has shipped.  it arrived at the sorting facility at about 9 p.m. last night, so it looks like I'll get it before it becomes difficult to find.  funny thing is that it was so easy to find one.  I think with shipping and tax it was around $18.  I don't know if that's a good price though as I just looked for the first one I could find.


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## Dust2dust (Apr 24, 2021)

godreborn said:


> looks like I'm in the clear, because my rcm loader has shipped.  it arrived at the sorting facility at about 9 p.m. last night, so it looks like I'll get it before it becomes difficult to find.  funny thing is that it was so easy to find one.  I think with shipping and tax it was around $18.  I don't know if that's a good price though as I just looked for the first one I could find.


I have three of these, which I ordered a couple years ago. They're nice.  The only negative is that the battery depletes whether you use them or not, so they must be charged often.  Maybe an ON/OFF switch would have been a good idea, like on the NS-Atmosphere dongle.


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## BitMasterPlus (Apr 24, 2021)

notrea11y said:


> Wait yours came without payloads ? Odd.
> 
> 
> Technically speaking, /now/ it indeed. Is.
> ...


Trump 4 lyfe.


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## tomhanks69 (Apr 25, 2021)

Bahaha this stops nothing.  Some of us don't even use those. Just a wire to trigger rcm and a good ol laptop or smartphone to launch payload


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## chrisrlink (Apr 25, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Trump 4 lyfe.


no politics in this thread plz


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## SaintFlo (Apr 25, 2021)

How are they banned? Amazon has a shit load of em on sale.


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## Jokey_Carrot (Apr 25, 2021)

Hells Malice said:


> Nintendo: Does something extremely obvious that any company would do to protect their products from piracy
> GBAtemp: WAAAH WAAAAH NINTENDO BAD WAAAH WAAAH I'M THE VICTIM WAAAAH WAAAH


People should have the right to run their own software on a device they own. Having a hacked switch allows you to use xbox/ps4 controllers, overclock the switch, use it to stream games, use it as a media player or install linux or android. I can somewhat understand them banning r4 cards as they didn't have much utility besides playing "backups". Besides maybe people wouldn't pirate games if they stopped selling old games slightly upscaled for $60.


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## godreborn (Apr 25, 2021)

are these rcm loaders generic?  because I think the one I've purchased is coming from China?


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## stanleyopar2000 (Apr 25, 2021)

SaintFlo said:


> How are they banned? Amazon has a shit load of em on sale.



...not on Prime though anymore.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 25, 2021)

slaphappygamer said:


> Cmon Nintendo, you know the real problem.


yeah it's the new CEO


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## Little_Anonymous_Hacker (Apr 25, 2021)

SaintFlo said:


> How are they banned? Amazon has a shit load of em on sale.


The same way you're banned?


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## daemonspudguy (Apr 25, 2021)

What's next? Will Nintendo get the courts to ban the entirety of China because "teh piracies?" Will Nintendo get PCs banned because "teh piracies?"


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## SpiffyJUNIOR (Apr 25, 2021)

g00s3y said:


> It's like this thread is full of children...
> 
> It's illegal, we all know why, stop playing dumb.


it's my device, i should be allowed to do what i want with it and bans like these are silly


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Apr 25, 2021)

Little_Anonymous_Hacker said:


> The same way you're banned?


LMAOOOO


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## Kubas_inko (Apr 26, 2021)

So happy to live anywhere else but the US, where modifying your own property is legal.


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## Gep_Etto (May 2, 2021)

Nintendo is trying to drink the ocean one teaspoon at a time. Go ahead, ban RCM loaders from one supplier, then another, then another... meanwhile, I'll be here waiting for you to have my hard drive banned because it has TegraRCM on it. Oh wait, I can just boot from a USB stick and use this web-based payload injector instead! Good luck going after everyone who rehosts it, since it's an open source project...


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## chrisrlink (May 3, 2021)

Gep_Etto said:


> Nintendo is trying to drink the ocean one teaspoon at a time. Go ahead, ban RCM loaders from one supplier, then another, then another... meanwhile, I'll be here waiting for you to have my hard drive banned because it has TegraRCM on it. Oh wait, I can just boot from a USB stick and use this web-based payload injector instead! Good luck going after everyone who rehosts it, since it's an open source project...


saddly from what I read the injunction apply's to all US based marketplaces too (ebay and fbm) are also complying afaik


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## Bladexdsl (May 4, 2021)

these guys are next


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## Gep_Etto (May 5, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> saddly from what I read the injunction apply's to all US based marketplaces too (ebay and fbm) are also complying afaik



Then people will buy them from China. The Chinese government doesn't care, each American dollar that goes into their market is a win for them. And you can do this from your phone, from your computer (like I said: _even without a hard drive!_), etc. You can install a modchip. There are just so many options and it isn't realistic to think you can stomp them all out. Nintendo is just flexing their muscles because they have to. They won't stop piracy. I know it, you know it and they know it.


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## duwen (May 5, 2021)

Someone call the Wah-mbulance for the baby posted that poll.

...there's a difference between an object designed for one purpose that can be repurposed for a very different nefarious reason, and something designed solely to circumvent copyrights.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (May 5, 2021)

duwen said:


> Someone call the Wah-mbulance for the baby posted that poll.
> 
> ...there's a difference between an object designed for one purpose that can be repurposed for a very different nefarious reason, and something designed solely to circumvent copyrights.


Paperclips would be taken down if the person seling them advertised them like "with this you can get free switch games" or "here's something you can use to hack your swithc"


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## chrisrlink (May 5, 2021)

Bladexdsl said:


> these guys are next


if they take that down i'd fear for atmosphere's future


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## SuzieJoeBob (May 8, 2021)

Oh no, what'll we ever do!!!!
*Proceeds to visit eBay and Alibaba*


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## smf (May 8, 2021)

daemonspudguy said:


> What's next? Will Nintendo get the courts to ban the entirety of China because "teh piracies?" Will Nintendo get PCs banned because "teh piracies?"



No. Don't worry, that doesn't even make any sense let alone have any legal merit.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Scott_pilgrim said:


> Paperclips would be taken down if the person seling them advertised them like "with this you can get free switch games" or "here's something you can use to hack your swithc"



I believe it would be possible for nintendo to get the advert taken down, however I don't think you could actually stop someone selling paperclips. The jigs are a different matter, although getting into RCM doesn't infringe anything. It would make an interesting case. At that point they'd go after the people who make the software.


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## Gep_Etto (May 8, 2021)

smf said:


> At that point they'd go after the people who make the software.



...which is mostly open source, so it's pretty much impossible to stamp out since anyone can rehost it. 

And not just that. Look at what happened recently when GitHub got a DMCA takedown notice for youtube-dl based on 'circumvention', i.e. it being code that "_bypasses technical measures that control access or copying of copyrighted works, even if that technology can be used in a way that would not be copyright infringement_". To nobody's surprise, though it did get removed for a short while, youtube-dl came back. This is the exact scenario we'd be looking at if Nintendo were to come after the people who make Atmosphère, hekate, etc., though NSP/XCI installers like Tinfoil might be in a bit more danger.


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## daemonspudguy (May 8, 2021)

smf said:


> No. Don't worry, that doesn't even make any sense let alone have any legal merit.


That was the point. It was supposed to be complete nonsense, like Nintendo's suppression of our right to do as we please with our devices.


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## smf (May 9, 2021)

daemonspudguy said:


> That was the point. It was supposed to be complete nonsense, like Nintendo's suppression of our right to do as we please with our devices.



You're allowed to do whatever you want with your own device, you're not allowed to tell anyone how to break drm or sell anything that does it.

Nintendo are just asking for the law to be applied.



Gep_Etto said:


> To nobody's surprise, though it did get removed for a short while, youtube-dl came back. This is the exact scenario we'd be looking at if Nintendo were to come after the people who make Atmosphère, hekate, etc., though NSP/XCI installers like Tinfoil might be in a bit more danger.



youtube-dl is different as it doesn't circumvent anything covered by the DMCA.

So you can't know what would happen if Nintendo did the same thing, sept in atmosphere is very much like the kind of thing that the DMCA covers. But I agree tinfoil and the sigpatch thread on gbatemp are far more likely to receive takedowns first.


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## daemonspudguy (May 10, 2021)

smf said:


> You're allowed to do whatever you want with your own device, you're not allowed to tell anyone how to break drm or sell anything that does it.
> 
> Nintendo are just asking for the law to be applied.



The Library of Congress made an exception to anti-circumvention laws specifically for "jailbreaking" devices. It's legal.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## smf (May 10, 2021)

daemonspudguy said:


> The Library of Congress made an exception to anti-circumvention laws specifically for "jailbreaking" devices. It's legal.



They made an exception for "jailbreaking" phones & specifically (despite being asked multiple times) excluded games consoles (and also tablets).

It's not legal.


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## daemonspudguy (May 10, 2021)

smf said:


> They made an exception for "jailbreaking" phones & specifically (despite being asked multiple times) excluded games consoles (and also tablets).
> 
> It's not legal.


If it isn't legal, how is this website still online? How are the tools still hosted on GitHub? If it truly is illegal, then all the tools used to run homebrew software would be taken down.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## smf (May 10, 2021)

daemonspudguy said:


> If it isn't legal, how is this website still online? How are the tools still hosted on GitHub? If it truly is illegal, then all the tools used to run homebrew software would be taken down.



If murder is illegal then why aren't all murderers caught.

Nintendo seem to only issue take down notices against illegal download sites when they charge money. The free ones aren't legal either, they just seem to ignore them.

github is owned by microsoft, I'm sure they don't care if you're costing nintendo money.


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## daemonspudguy (May 10, 2021)

smf said:


> The free ones aren't legal either, they just seem to ignore them.



Tell that to LoveROMS.



> github is owned by microsoft, I'm sure they don't care if you're costing nintendo money


That's not how that works. If a site gets a DMCA takedown notice, they are required to comply with it.


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## smf (May 10, 2021)

daemonspudguy said:


> Tell that to LoveROMS.



From the court papers.

38. As a direct result of Defendants’ infringement of Plaintiffs’ copyrights and trademarks, Defendants’ websites have become enormously popular. The LoveROMs website alone receives 17 million visitors each month. Such visitors are drawn to the website by the widespread availability of free, unauthorized copies of Nintendo’s video games and other highly valuable intellectual property. *The resulting popularity of Defendants’ LoveROMs and LoveRETRO websites has allowed Defendants to reap substantial ill-gotten gains, including through donations and the sale of advertising on the LoveROMs and LoveRETRO websites.

*
Nintendo went after them because of the money. It plays better in court, there is money available for the court to award some to Nintendo and it probably annoys them more that someone is making money while depriving them of it.

Nintendo have not removed all illegal copies of their games from the internet. So the "if it was illegal it would be taken down" is still a poor argument


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## daemonspudguy (May 10, 2021)

LoveROMS's files were free to download, though.


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## smf (May 10, 2021)

daemonspudguy said:


> LoveROMS's files were free to download, though.



People donated money. It's not so much free, as they didn't charge directly for the individual roms.

Their lack of accounting doesn't change that they made money from users.


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## chrisrlink (May 11, 2021)

i know a place nintendo can't touch because it's an account based system AND they scan IP's and i've heard they banned or denied access to stupid lawyers


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## f3rr3t (May 11, 2021)

Decided to order one off AliExpress just because of the ban.


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## smf (May 11, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> i know a place nintendo can't touch because it's an account based system AND they scan IP's and i've heard they banned or denied access to stupid lawyers



How do they ban access to lawyers?


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## chrisrlink (May 11, 2021)

ca sa


smf said:


> How do they ban access to lawyers?


rather not say as idek how but more of the safety side of things but yeah the mods there know how to keep that site safe from prying eyes


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## smf (May 11, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> rather not say as idek how but more of the safety side of things but yeah the mods there know how to keep that site safe from prying eyes



My guess is that whatever they are doing to prevent lawyers signing up, is pointless.

Because AFAICT lawyers are just normal people.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (May 12, 2021)

You can build your own rcm loader, you just don't start a business selling or commercializing a complete and fully functional device (plug n play)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Rcm Loaders is technically a dmca violation

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


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## Gep_Etto (May 12, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> Rcm Loaders is technically a dmca violation



an RCM loader does not "descramble a scrambled work, decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate or impair a technological measure" which "requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to [a] work", unless the "work" in question is Horizon OS itself and not any other software that runs on it. And even then that's murky, because you need a payload to inject in order for the RCM loader to be of any use at all. Really, it's the payloads that break copyright, not the RCM loaders themselves.

The only way to make a case against RCM loaders is going by item B of your last screenshot (or C if the seller is a complete moron like the SX OS folks). And in my limited experience, it will depend a lot on whose bullshit the judge assigned to the case is more willing to swallow. Are RCM loaders used exclusively or almost exclusively to unlawfully gain access to games copyrighted by Nintendo? Or are there several legitimate uses for them¹, and is there a sufficient proportion of people using them for these legitimate activities so as to decharacterize item B? There are no statistics on this.

I assume that most courts will side with the copyright holder in cases like this, but that's just me.

¹_like running homebrew apps, emulating games for old systems that have become abandonware (the concept of "abandonware" itself is shaky, since copyright in the USA lasts for 50 years after the authors death, which means that technically every piece of software ever written that can run on an x86 computer is still under copyright protection) or using ports of games for other platforms that require assets and/or code from the original in order to run (presumably meaning that the user owns a legitimate copy)._


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (May 12, 2021)

Gep_Etto said:


> an RCM loader does not "descramble a scrambled work, decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate or impair a technological measure" which "requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to [a] work", unless the "work" in question is Horizon OS itself and not any other software that runs on it. And even then that's murky, because you need a payload to inject in order for the RCM loader to be of any use




Any modifications or alterations to DRM and security protection provided, rcm loaders allows you to modify, alter, and bypass, DRM and software protections, the only reason people buy them is to run unlicensed code, with most just to pirate games, what else you gonna buy it for? Without the rcm loader your payload is useless.


Learn to build it yourself you won't have that issue


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## Gep_Etto (May 12, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> Without the rcm loader your payload is useless.



And without the payload, your RCM loader is useless. The code that actually alters anything in how the Switch boots, allowing you to run CFW and ultimately to install and run pirated content is present in the payloads, not in the loader. They're what is actually circumventing DRM. To make this extra obvious, there are several different ways to inject these payloads (RCM loaders, modchips, computers, smartphones, even some websites) but they all inject the same handful of payloads, because what matters is the payload being injected, not the method used to inject it.

This distinction is, of course, completely lost on our aging and not at all tech-savvy population of judges, but it does exist.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (May 12, 2021)

Gep_Etto said:


> And without the payload, your RCM loader is useless. The code that actually alters anything in how the Switch boots, allowing you to run CFW and ultimately to install and run pirated content is present in the payloads, not in the loader. They're what is actually circumventing DRM. To make this extra obvious, there are several different ways to inject these payloads (RCM loaders, modchips, computers, smartphones, even some websites) but they all inject the same handful of payloads, because what matters is the payload being injected, not the method used to inject it.
> 
> This distinction is, of course, completely lost on our aging and not at all tech-savvy population of judges, but it does exist.



You can't run the payload, without the rcm loader

Doesn't matter, it's specific goal is hardware/software circumventing

You can give any excuse, still it's circumvention

Payload is useless with out an rcm loader, so it's required, and is needed to circumvent drm, otherwise you could just boot cfw like I boot win/Linux on my pc

Even if you own the game, and just run homebrew, you still have to circumvent anti piracy and DRM measures put in place




In the United States, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”)has implemented the treaty provisions regarding the circumvention of some technological barriers to copying intellectual property. Section 103 (17 U.S.C Sec. 1201(a)(1)) of the DMCA states:


No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
The Act defines what it means in Section 1201(a)(3):


(3) As used in this subsection –
(A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to *decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise, to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner*; and
(B) a *technological measure “effectively controls access to a work” if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.*
*Thus, if there is some “technological measure that effectively controls access to a work”, it is illegal to circumvent that measure.* However, Section 1201 creates several exceptions to this rule, and the Library of Congress is empowered to create additional exceptions.


As you mentioned the rcm loader is required for your payload to work, so you can't run the payload unless you build it yourself


Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse when you're in court


The scene kinda brought the issue on itself, it moved from homebrew to Piracy,

It wasn't ever this bad, yeah a few instances here and there, but you can look at the previous gens, and the actual plethora of homebrew applications, games, and utilities

Now it's, mods, cheats, and roms

Smartphones are also to blame

Microsoft doesn't really care and they are worth 1 trillion, that's why their consoles also are much harder to hack, which will be patched quickly if you did, they've been around since 1975 and know what they are doing,  and they'll probably give you a job if you hack the xbone


Sony actually is worth the same as Nintendo, they both just sue you, take your money, and have you sign a C&D


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## Gep_Etto (May 13, 2021)

This has turned into a chicken and egg discussion. I say the loader is useless without the payload, you say the payload is useless without the loader, we quote the same text to back up our positions. The truth is both parts are necessary and the only reason Nintendo went after the RCM loader sellers and not the payload sellers is because nobody is selling payload files but lots of people are selling RCM loaders.


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