# Germany, a Paradise for slackers ?



## Youkai (Nov 21, 2017)

Hey there,
I am slightly pissed again as I just read that here in Germany the "Hartz4" money will be highered again and I really feel like its not worth to Work anymore ... would like to know what you think about it.

Imagine, when you life in Germany and do not work you get :
A flat 
a complete inventory for their flat (like kitchen if not already there and a TV and everything nowadays even a computer is included ... at least they pay it if you tell them your kid needs it for school ...)
free Healthcare 
A cheap ticket for busses
Lots of places offer cheap second hand clothes (sometimes even free) for jobless that get Hartz4
cheap food (lots of places where jobless people can get a whole lot of food for a symbolic 1€)
400€ cash (if its a familiy both get ~380€ each plus money ~180?€ for each kid)

All of this for doing nothing at all ....

Than look at me, I have to get up at 6am 5 days a week and work 8 hours, what do I get ?
1400€ from which I have to pay 500€ for the flat, remaining 900€
~300€ for food and water remaining about 600€ 
50€ for Internet still remaining 550€
Than I need proper clothes for work some times ~50€ a month plus a bus ticket or a car or whatever to get to work (well I walk or take the bycicle so for me its okay but most have to pay lots of money for this)

from this I still need to pay any extra in health care and I had to buy my stuff at home from my own money,
had to pay ~4000€ when I moved for my new job (for kitchen and everything)




I have to admit some of the free or cheap offers for jobless are not everywhere but at most places and you would have to go there and use these offers (some people who really want to work and just don't get work might be to ashamed to use these) but if you look at what I have written (and my sallary is not the worst) it is hardly worth going working for 8 hours a day 
And now they are giving out even more free cash even though its only ~10€ a month it still makes me angry.
One of my "good" friends is such a slacker, he and his wife didn't work for years (he is only 30) and they could have a proper life from all the money even though he was allways like "aww man its not enough money they should give us more" ... than again he never bough at these places that give clothes and food for 1€ as they had enough money for new stuff. Plus allways buying new Computer Games and doing nothing than gaming all day long.

No wonder so many foreigners from Poor Countries want to migrate here :/


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## iwabo (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> All of this for doing nothing at all ....



You have to be actively seeking work or need to be checked by a government doctor if you are too sick you can't work. You can't just laze around, that's a myth. If you don't comply to the rules you'll get your funding cut very quickly and you'll find yourself either in jail or homeless.

The problem isn't that social funding is slightly increased but that jobs still pay incredibly low wages when all expenses in life continuously increased. Complaining about people who need the social funding or foreigners seeking a better life...you're really barking up the wrong tree. You're complaining about the people trying to survive just like you. Instead you should be complaining about the people who cause this mess. Bribed politicians and company execs.


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## windhazard (Nov 21, 2017)

iwabo said:


> You have to be actively seeking work or need to be checked by a government doctor if you are too sick you can't work. You can't just laze around, that's a myth. If you don't comply to the rules you'll get your funding cut very quickly and you'll find yourself either in jail or homeless.



It's hard to know if the person in question is sick or not. You can probably fake a mental illness and enjoy the advantages of hartz IV money.

Not to mention people who do this can actively work illegally jobs without paying tax.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Hey there,
> I am slightly pissed again as I just read that here in Germany the "Hartz4" money will be highered again and I really feel like its not worth to Work anymore ... would like to know what you think about it.
> 
> Imagine, when you life in Germany and do not work you get :
> ...


That's because Americans are slaves for Israel.  Maybe you should start questioning why it is that your government spends trillions upon trillions of tax dollars on protecting Israel in the Middle East???  Meanwhile, American infrastructure, healthcare, education, etc is falling apart.  Most wealthy western countries that are not slaves and mercenary armies for Israel, take care of their citizens as is the case with Germany.  You should see how easy life is in Australia.  I lived there for a year and someone who is packing groceries at the grocery store can afford a home, a car, vacation time, healthcare, education, etc..  Most of the western world has pity for Americans for being brainwashed slaves for a foreign cause.  Until America breaks away from the money pit, and slave masters called Israel, you will continue to see your standard of living go down the drain, and for life to get harder and harder.  It's that simple.


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## VinsCool (Nov 21, 2017)

I get you man.

I know people, living near me, doing the same.
They don't work, living off social assistance.
They make just as much money as I do, from working full time, and yet, they don't need to get out of their home at all.

It's incredibly frustrating.


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## Youkai (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> That's because Americans are slaves for Israel.  Maybe you should start questioning why it is that your government spends trillions upon trillions of tax dollars on protecting Israel in the Middle East???  Meanwhile, American infrastructure, healthcare, education, etc is falling apart.  Most wealthy western countries that are not slaves and mercenary armies for Israel, take care of their citizens as is the case with Germany.  You should see how easy life is in Australia.  I lived there for a year and someone who is packing groceries at the grocery store can afford a home, a car, vacation time, healthcare, education, etc..  Most of the western world has pity for Americans for being brainwashed slaves for a foreign cause.  Until America breaks away from the money pit, and slave masters called Israel, you will continue to see your standard of living go down the drain, and for life to get harder and harder.  It's that simple.



oO sorry to be rude but this sounds a little bit like those people who still say the earth is flat and that the round earth is just brainwashing XD

I can admit there is often at least a tiny little bit truth about some stuff like this ... America and Europe spending way to much money that they don't have in the middle east and so on but yeah ... talking about beeing their slaves is overexaggerating




iwabo said:


> You have to be actively seeking work or need to be checked by a government doctor if you are too sick you can't work. You can't just laze around, that's a myth. If you don't comply to the rules you'll get your funding cut very quickly and you'll find yourself either in jail or homeless.
> 
> The problem isn't that social funding is slightly increased but that jobs still pay incredibly low wages when all expenses in life continuously increased. Complaining about people who need the social funding or foreigners seeking a better life...you're really barking up the wrong tree. You're complaining about the people trying to survive just like you. Instead you should be complaining about the people who cause this mess. Bribed politicians and company execs.



Don't know where you got that from but as I have been jobless a few month as well (never got Hartz4 because it only starts after 12 month or if you never worked before) and the Job Center only wanted me to give them some kind of report every month but thats it they did not even controll it I could just give them a paper saying that I tried my best at getting a Job and they would have been okay with this ...
Or really go to a doctor and tell him that I can't work ... lots of doctors don't even examine you they just ask "how long" and thats it -.-V


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> oO sorry to be rude but this sounds a little bit like those people who still say the earth is flat and that the round earth is just brainwashing XD


Yeah, just read the rest of your post, and saw that you are in Germany.  I was writing from an American perspective.  An American who is fed up with the wealth of the nation being squandered on foreign affairs.  As far as Germany is concerned, your people may not be spending trillions for Israel's sake, but losing your cultural identity post WWII, and opening your borders to the world is definitely a path to ruin as well.  There are only a single people in the world that are true "internationalists" and pushing to culturally dilute just about every country out their, except for their own country of Israel, with a motive to weaken your conviction against their agendas, and ultimately render the people clueless.  As is obviously the case with you.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> oO sorry to be rude but this sounds a little bit like those people who still say the earth is flat and that the round earth is just brainwashing XD
> 
> I can admit there is often at least a tiny little bit truth about some stuff like this ... America and Europe spending way to much money that they don't have in the middle east and so on but yeah ... talking about beeing their slaves is overexaggerating
> 
> ...


So if you never qualified for it, how can you know what you're saying?


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Nov 21, 2017)

Simple solution: Get a better job. 
1.500 € per month is pretty low. When I started I literally got more than that already. But I guess not everyone can "easily" go higher than that.

Also yes, it's a paradise for slackers by at least looking at all the economic immigrants/refugees these days.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Yeah, just read the rest of your post, and saw that you are in Germany.  I was writing from an American perspective.  An American who is fed up with the wealth of the nation being squandered on foreign affairs.  As far as Germany is concerned, your people may not be spending trillions for Israel's sake, but losing your cultural identity post WWII, and opening your borders to the world is definitely a path to ruin as well.  There are only a single people in the world that are true "internationalists" and pushing to culturally dilute just about every country out their with a motive to weaken your conviction against their agendas, and ultimately render the people clueless.  As is obviously the case with you.


First of all, we're not supporting Isreal, we're supporting our oil and opiates. Secondly, the culture of America is a diversity of all nations. Not just those decended from white Europeans.


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## Reiten (Nov 21, 2017)

As I recall the requirements to get and keep the full benefits Hartz IV were quite sever, at least if we follow the written rules to a letter. As I see it the problem is that the people getting it aren't being properly checked.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> First of all, we're not supporting Isreal, we're supporting our oil and opiates. Secondly, the culture of America is a diversity of all nations. Not just those decended from white Europeans.


Were supporting our oil??  Last time I checked, America only gets about 12% of it's oil from the middle east.  Most of our oil comes from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, etc..  Why isn't America invading, and spending trillions on those countries?  You should look into it so you can better understand how, and why, the world works the way that it does.  The "foreign oil dependency" lie is just another lie for Americans to justify Americas involvement in the Middle East for Isreal's agendas in the region.  America does what Israel wants, or you suffer economic ruin.  Every politician in Washington knows this.  This is also how "Israel" has been conquering nations for the past 3000 years.  Never by brute force since they are a small minority.  But rather by hijacking the economies of nations, in which case you can coerce, and extort those nations to work for you.


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## tatripp (Nov 21, 2017)

A lot of America's poor is extremely fat. It's very ironic.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Were supporting our oil??  Last time I checked, America only gets about 12% of it's oil from the middle east.  Most of our oil comes from Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, etc..  Why isn't America invading, and spending trillions on those countries?  You should look into it so you can better understand how, and why, the world works the way that it does.


..and opiates. You don't think the US would invade a war torn group of impoverished countries for a 10% increase in oil? You know why we don't invade Canada and mexico? Because they sell us their oil. We have trade. The middle east is what happens when countries don't comply. You're the niave one if you think we're spending trillions just to help Isreal for no fucking reason.

And as far as open borders, who's to say who is an immigrant? Are us citizens the ones that made it in by 1819? 1787? Were all immigrants. How do you have closed borders and patriotism in a country that's supposed to be a melting pot.


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## spinal_cord (Nov 21, 2017)

I have a friend (ex-friend really) who haven't worked more than a month their whole life and claims that their illness is preventing them from working. Their illness is mostly digestion related and very easily managed by eating the right food and completely avoiding some food all together. They would often use this for not eating out with us if we went to eat somewhere nice, however seemed to really like horrible cheap food that made them ill. Always complained about having no money, yet would always seem to be able to afford expensive equipment that related to their hobbies. All the while, would switch between unemployment and sickness based benefits every X amount of months, no doubt because each of them told them they had to get a job. 
People like that give genuine claimants a really bad name.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> ..and opiates. You don't think the US would invade a war torn group of impoverished countries for a 10% increase in oil? You know why we don't invade Canada and mexico? Because they sell us their oil. We have trade. The middle east is what happens when countries don't comply. You're the niave one if you think we're spending trillions just to help Isreal for no fucking reason.
> 
> And as far as open borders, who's to say who is an immigrant? Are us citizens the ones that made it in by 1819? 1787? Were all immigrants. How do you have closed borders and patriotism in a country that's supposed to be a melting pot.


Strange... Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emerites, and Iran are the 3 largest oil producers in the Middle East.  Again, last time I checked, those aren't war torn countries.  Iran is America's enemy simply because it's Israel's enemy.  All the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq, or Afghanistan.  But we didn't invade Saudia Arabia did we.  No, we Invaded Iraq and Saddam who sent scud missiles to Israel 10 years prior.  Needless to say, Iraq was always on Israel's mind, and one of her primary enemies with Iran..  The trillions that America spends in that region is not for resources.  It's to protect Israel from it's enemies, and ultimately to nation build around Israel so that the threat against her is neutralized.  You really do have a lot to learn about that region, and it's history.  The oil and opiate argument is for dumb people to believe, which works since most Americans spend their time with endless streams of entertainment (video games, movies, music, facebook, etc)  instead of reading books and thinking past their own noses.  Oh, and Afghanistan is a huge interest for Israel as it just so happens to be the country that sits inbetween Israel and Iran.  Think Mcfly..  Think...


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

Why is that a bad thing ? It's almost everywhere in Europe like that ! Less debt then other first world nations, less crime then other first world nations, less poverty then other first world nations, less difference between poor and rich then other first world countries, more then 50 percent of the top 20 gdp countries are European and the Euro is going stronger everyday and topping most currencies. Why are you complaining ? If Europe was heading towards ruin like most people are saying then Europe would become less of a first world nation by the years like is happening in other placea right now but instead Europe is going stronger each year. I get it why most people say stuff like that since they don't even invest anytime in economics and how countries work and only focus on negative shit and doomsday scenarios.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Strange... Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emerites, and Iran are the 3 largest oil producers in the Middle East.  Again, last time I checked, those aren't war torn countries.  Iran is America's enemy simply because it's Israel's enemy.  All the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq, or Afghanistan.  But we didn't invade Saudia Arabia did we.  No, we Invaded Iraq and Saddam who just happened to be Israel's enemy as well.  The trillions that America spends in that region is not for resources.  It's to protect Israel from it's enemies, and ultimately to nation build around Israel so that the threat against her is neutralized.  You really do have a lot to learn about that region, and it's history.  The oil and opiate argument is for dumb people to believe, which works since most Americans spend their time with endless streams of entertainment (video games, movies, music, facebook, etc)  instead of reading books and thinking past their own noses.


Saudi Arabia sells us oil. I have never witnessed someone that has swallowed the biggest line of fox news propaganda bullshit in all my life. I'm done, you're fucking stupid.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Saudi Arabia sells us oil. I have never witnessed someone that has swallowed the biggest line of fox news propaganda bullshit in all my life. I'm done, you're fucking stupid.


The US has been buying oil from Iraq since 1998.  Yet, we invaded them.  Your point??  You need to put the weed down, and start improving your understanding of the world, it's history, and who is who out there.  You're way too innocent.  And, I don't watch FOX news, CNN, or any other BS American news.  Why don't you look into who owns the major news networks in America.  That's a good place for you start!


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## SG854 (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Strange... Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emerites, and Iran are the 3 largest oil producers in the Middle East.  Again, last time I checked, those aren't war torn countries.  Iran is America's enemy simply because it's Israel's enemy.  All the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq, or Afghanistan.  But we didn't invade Saudia Arabia did we.  No, we Invaded Iraq and Saddam who sent scud missiles to Israel 10 years prior.  Needless to say, Iraq was always on Israel's mind, and one of her primary enemies with Iran..  The trillions that America spends in that region is not for resources.  It's to protect Israel from it's enemies, and ultimately to nation build around Israel so that the threat against her is neutralized.  You really do have a lot to learn about that region, and it's history.  The oil and opiate argument is for dumb people to believe, which works since most Americans spend their time with endless streams of entertainment (video games, movies, music, facebook, etc)  instead of reading books and thinking past their own noses.  Oh, and Afghanistan is a huge interest for Israel as it just so happens to be the country that sits inbetween Israel and Iran.  Think Mcfly..  Think...


United Arab Emerites is the second safest country in the world. Saudi Arabia is also a safer country than the UK and the US. Iran though is less safe than US and UK. 

Middle East country Qutar, the richest country in the world, is also banking on their natural recourses and ranked as the 10th safest country in the world. Along with not having to pay taxes, free health care, free education, free water and electricity. They are also being smart and diversifying their money so they don't end up like Venezuela.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> The US has been buying oil from Iraq since 1998.  Your point??  You need to put the weed down, and start improving your understanding of the world, it's history, and who is who out there.  You're way too innocent.


Alright then, straighten me out. We are involved with the middle east to protect Isreal's interests. The fact that we are shipping billions worth of oil and opiates from there is just a cover. We spend trillions in taxes government funding to do this for no conceivable reason other than Isreal is our homie. While at the same time were protecting isreal, we're opening our borders to allow the Muslims and Mexicans to take over. Now what part of that makes sense?


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## Youkai (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> So if you never qualified for it, how can you know what you're saying?



Because I looked into it, there are many places you can get your informations plus as I said one of my Friends is taking advantage of this system for a long time now.
At the Time when I was jobless I didn't get Hartz4 which is "ALG2" but I got "ALG1" till my new job started and the Job Center actually informed me of a lot of stuff as well 



kumikochan said:


> Why is that a bad thing ? It's almost everywhere in Europe like that ! Less debt then other first world nations, less crime then other first world nations, less poverty then other first world nations, less difference between poor and rich then other first world countries, more then 50 percent of the top 20 gdp countries are European and the Euro is going stronger everyday and topping most currencies. Why are you complaining ? If Europe was heading towards ruin like most people are saying then Europe would become less of a first world nation by the years like is happening in other placea right now but instead Europe is going stronger each year. I get it why most people say stuff like that since they don't even invest anytime in economics and how countries work and only focus on negative shit and doomsday scenarios.



Yeah sounds good but how is it fair that working 40h a week earns you a very similiar ammount as not working at all ?
People like me friend who tell me that he doesn't even search for a Job anymore and would only take a very good paid job are making me angry but than again I can understand why, and the problem is that people have it way to easy here.

The Government needs to change stuff like this.
We have 2 million jobless but than again several hundred thousands of jobs where they don't find anyone who wants to do it ! Question is why ?
One point might be bad salary but another thing is that the people don't want to work 40hours a week to get maybe 100€ more each month than what they would get when slacking off plus you need to pay so much stuff yourself that in the worst case you even go into minus with working.


A good example, my dad who worked for 47 years and paid for the same ammount of time lots of taxes needed a new denture? (correct word?) and he had to pay 3000€ himself !! to earn that ammount of money even with his rather good slary he had to save up as much as he could for at least 6 month while a jobless gets it completely paid!!! so even if you have a job that gives you 100-200€ more than Hartz4 you would need to pay stuff like this and with bad salary you would need to save years to get this ammount of money. (same thing if something in your flat brakes like the fridge for 200€ or the oven or whatever ... slackers get it free and workers get into minus balance)


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Because I looked into it, there are many places you can get your informations plus as I said one of my Friends is taking advantage of this system for a long time now.
> At the Time when I was jobless I didn't get Hartz4 which is "ALG2" but I got "ALG1" till my new job started and the Job Center actually informed me of a lot of stuff as well
> 
> 
> ...


You can't ignore that there are less people who don't work even with that system then in other first world countries. Plus getting a new denture at that age is normal that you have to pay for it but you're also forgetting that when you get a new  denture at the age of 50 it will be paid back fully !!! So if  he waited 3 years then he would have gotten 1 for free. And again some people abuse a system but that's everywhere in the fucking world but thanks to that system there is less poverty here and in the end that will cost less then giving people who don't work no money at all. You're creating poverty that way and believe in the end poverty will cost the middle class working man much more in taxes and so on just to fix that or to pay for them going to doctors, hospitals because they're getting sick constantly. You're forgetting that social Healthcare is a system in Europe where everybody  pays for everybody so sickness is just one example why poverty is worse in the long  run. No poverty creates less crime, more health, more growth and so forth. People Always complain about that but they''re not seeing the bigger picture of all the benefits with it. And ofcourse there will be people who will take advantage of that but that's just how it is. You can't stop something like that, it will happen in every construct and system and so on. Just the  way a society works. You have bad apples and good apples *but in the long run a system like that creates more good apples then bad apples and that's how you should look at it.*


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Alright then, straighten me out. We are involved with the middle east to protect Isreal's interests. The fact that we are shipping billions worth of oil and opiates from there is just a cover. We spend trillions in taxes government funding to do this for no conceivable reason other than Isreal is our homie. While at the same time were protecting isreal, we're opening our borders to allow the Muslims and Mexicans to take over. Now what part of that makes sense?


Why are you so fixated on opiates?  America has always shipped billions of all kinds of drugs from all over the world, not just opiates from Afghanistan.  And billions is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions of spending in that region.  Not a very good return on investment, dontcha think?  It's almost impossible to explain this to you.  All I can say is begin by reading about the history of "Israel" and the western world at large.  The secret though is that you have to read history books that were written by a citizen of Israel, for the audience of "Israel."  That's where you find the truth about how the west really works, and how it has operated for almost 3000 years.  You won't find this truth in any mainstream history book that is written by a gentile.  For if a gentile tells the cold hard truth about all of this, they are branded an "anti-semite" and instantly shut down.  Look into it.  As for all the other stuff regarding mass immigrations, and mixing populations.. You will find answers to why this is happening the way it is when you understand this history.  Little hint.  You don't see Israel taking in large numbers of immigrants do you?  Infact it's quite the opposite, where ethnic cleansing is more that countries motto since it's creation in 1948.  All I can say is read as many of those special books as possible.  It's complex, and beyond the understanding of the average person who is busy with working like a dog, raising a family, and drunk on video games, movies, entertainment, etc... with their time off.  This is also why "they" have been largely successful at getting what they want over the past 3000 years.  The ignorance of the masses...


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Because I looked into it, there are many places you can get your informations plus as I said one of my Friends is taking advantage of this system for a long time now.
> At the Time when I was jobless I didn't get Hartz4 which is "ALG2" but I got "ALG1" till my new job started and the Job Center actually informed me of a lot of stuff as well


Sorry man, got a bit off topic. I can't say I'm familiar with your guys social assistance programs, but germany has a reputation for being prosperous and leaders in industry despite being abnormally socialized.

We have similar programs here. People bitch about others having a bunch of kids and going on welfare, and how much they get back in taxes, and how awesome they must have it to not have to work. But if you spend any time with these people, you see its not a life worth having.

Maybe they get free housing, food, cellphones, etc. But it's not really all that. They are fully dependant on government assistance, which means rules. What food they can buy, where they can live, etc.

My suggestion was that maybe youre not seeing their lifestyle for what it really is. And if they are milking assistance, well that's just another level of hell.



xpoverzion said:


> Why are you so fixated on opiates?  America has always shipped billions of all kinds of drugs from all over the world, not just opiates from Afghanistan.  And billions is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions of spending in that region.  Not a very good return on investment, dontcha think?  It's almost impossible to explain this to you.  All I can say is begin by reading about the history of "Israel" and the western world at large.  The secret though is that you have to read history books that were written by a citizen of Israel, for the audience of "Israel."  That's where you find the truth about how the west really works, and how it has operated for almost 3000 years.  You won't find this truth in any mainstream history book that is written by a gentile.  For if a gentile tells the cold hard truth about all of this, they are branded and anti semite and instantly shut down.  Look into it.


Trillions since the start / billions a year. Opiates and oil are the biggest return for our military presence. Why can't you just tell me? Why do I have to read some bullshit history books written in isreal for isreal to know why we are at war with _other_ countries _now_? Nothing you say makes sense, do you see that?


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Sorry man, got a bit off topic. I can't say I'm familiar with your guys social assistance programs, but germany has a reputation for being prosperous and leaders in industry despite being abnormally socialized.
> 
> We have similar programs here. People bitch about others having a bunch of kids and going on welfare, and how much they get back in taxes, and how awesome they must have it to not have to work. But if you spend any time with these people, you see its not a life worth having.
> 
> ...


No, keeping Israel happy is the biggest return from our military presence.  I can't just tell you because it's extremely complicated.  But, here are a few facts.  Rome collapsed in the 4th and 5th century.  Not because of what the gentile history books tell you.  Barbarians, cost of dealing with Germanic tribes, overstretch military, etc... Rome collapsed in those centuries because that is when Rome became a Christian empire and "Israel" was forced out.  Israel held the keys to Rome's economy every since she financed Julius Caesar and made an empire out of Rome.  Not to mention, "Israel" controlled Rome's food supply in Alexandrea, and Asia Minor.  You may have heard of that old saying, "Egypt was Rome's breadbasket?" France's economy collapsed in 1307 when King Phillip the Fair kicked Israel out.  By 1313, France was begging for "Israel" to return.  England kicked Israel out in the 12th century.  For 500 years, England went nowhere economically.  Not until England let Israel back in, in the late 17th century did England suddenly become a worldwide empire.  America had it's humble roots.  It only became a powerful empire at the beginning of the 20th century.  No conincedence that America's rise coincided with Russia kicking Israel out in the 1880's.  "Israel," from Russia, and Eastern Europe came to America in the late 1800's and early 1900's, set up the ADL, and the Federal Reserve bank, and by the end of WWII, America was the most powerful nation in the world.  Just as rapid of a rise as England did it after letting "Israel" back in around 1700.  So you see... Your politicians know that if they don't keep Israel very, very happy, then Israel will fuuuuck you economically.  That is the reason that America is squandering the fruits of your labor, and the labor of all it's citizens, to the tune of trillions of tax dollars, to make sure that Israel gets what she wants.  There is so much more to it, but this is essentially it, in a nutshell.  These are just a few examples of how "Israel's" movement around the west has dictated the history in the west.  Just about every important event that has ever happened in western history has had Israel behind it in one way or another.  That's not my quote either.  That is a quote that comes from a very popular history book that was written by a citizen of Israel, Solomon Grayzel.  As long as you keep thinking is for oil, and opiates, they have you right where they want you, and you are being played for a fool.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> No, keeping Israel happy is the biggest return from our military presence.  I can't just tell you because it's extremely complicated.  But, here are a few facts.  Rome collapsed in the 4th and 5th century.  Not because of what the gentile history books tell you.  Barbarians, cost of dealing with Germanic tribes, overstretch military, etc... Rome collapsed in those centuries because that is when Rome became a Christian empire and "Israel" was forced out.  Israel held the keys to Rome's economy every since she financed Julius Caesar and made an empire out of Rome.  France's economy collapsed in 1307 when King Phillip the Fair kicked Israel out.  By 1313, France was begging for "Israel" to return.  England kicked Israel out in the 12th century.  For 500 years, England went nowhere economically.  Not until England let Israel back in the late 17th century did England suddenly become a worldwide empire.  America had it's humble roots.  It only became a powerful empire at the beginning of the 20th century.  No conincedence that America's rise coincided with Russia kicking Israel out in the 1880's.  "Israel" came to America in the early 1900's, set up the ADL, and the Federal Reserve bank, and by the end of WWII, America was the most powerful nation in the world.  Just as rapid of a rise as England did it after letting "Israel" back in around 1700.  So you see... Your politicians know that if they don't keep Israel very, very happy, they Israel will fuuuuck you.  That is the reason that America is squandering the fruits of your labor, and the labor of all it's citizens and making sure that Israel gets what she wants.  There is so much more to it, but this is essentially it, in a nutshell.


Now i know youre crazy Israel wasnt founded until after ww2. But are you implying that the region's religious roots somehow connects it's allies to divine prosperity? 

Please tell me that's what you're saying.

Seriously, you ever think that we just happen to be a superpower killing their enemies and they happen to like us for it? Isreal isn't the central power it was 1000+ years ago..


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Now i know youre crazy Israel wasnt founded until after ww2. But are you implying that the region's religious roots somehow connects it's allies to divine prosperity?
> 
> Please tell me that's what you're saying.
> 
> Seriously, you ever think that we just happen to be a superpower killing their enemies and they happen to like us for it? Isreal isn't the central power it was 1000+ years ago..


Go read the history books.  Obviously you didn't read what I just wrote.  I know that Israel was created in 1948, after WWII.  C'mon now.  The state of Israel is just the political center of "Israel" world wide.  "Israel" doesn't need a political state, with borders to yield her power or influence.  There's a thing thing called the diaspora.  It's the diaspora that has existed much longer, and has been much more influentual throughout history than the political state of Israel.  And no, America is not just a big super power attacking weaker nations around Israel, and because of this, Israel likes us.  Ever wonder why it is that during the U.S. presidential elections all the democrat and republican candidates have very different, and often opposite views on just about everything out there. The economy.  Immigration.  Education.  Taxes.  Environment, etc... But you know the one thing that every single presidential candidate always agrees on no matter what.  They all agree that the U.S. needs to support Israel with unwavering support, no matter what the cost.  That's because it would be political suicide for a candidate to say anything otherwise about Israel.  They know it, and you obviously don't.  And your politicians know it for exactly the reasons, and history that I mentioned in the previous post.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Go read the history books.  Obviously you didn't read what I just wrote.  I know that Israel was created in 1948, after WWII.  C'mon now.  The state of Israel is just the political center of "Israel" world wide.  "Israel" doesn't need a political state, with borders to yield her power or influence.  There's a thing thing called the diaspora.  It's the diaspora that has existed much longer, and has been much more influentual throughout history than the political state of Israel.  And no, America is not just a big super power attacking weaker nations around Israel, and because of this, Israel likes us.  Ever wonder why it is that during the U.S. presidential elections all the democrat and republican candidates have very different, and often opposite views on just about everything out there. The economy.  Immigration.  Education.  Taxes.  Environment, etc... But you know the one thing that every single presidential candidate always agrees on no matter what.  They all agree that the U.S. needs to support Israel with unwavering support, no matter what the cost.  That's because it would be political suicide for a candidate to say anything otherwise about Israel.  They know it, and you obviously don't.  And your politicians know it for exactly the reasons, and history that I mentioned in the previous post.


So my question.. because God?


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> So my question.. because God?


What about God?


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> What about God?


Something has to make the region so influential to make it responsible for the rise and fall of nations. It's not their booming first world tech, or arsenal of weaponry. Are you saying god is behind it?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Christ, this threads been totally highjacked.. I'm sorry


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## lordkaos (Nov 21, 2017)




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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Something has to make the region so influential to make it responsible for the rise and fall of nations. It's not their booming first world tech, or arsenal of weaponry. Are you saying god is behind it?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Christ, this threads been totally highjacked.. I'm sorry


No.  It's not about God or anything like that.  It's about the power of money... As it is right now, "Israel" prints every single U.S. dollar that circulates around the world.  It's always about money, and "Israel" pulls the purse strings of most western economies which is why most western nations, and their politicians, bow to her demands, especially the U.S.  It has been this way throughout most of the west's history, going back to the ancient world.  Note too, that put Israel in parentheses as I am not referring to only the political state of Israel in the Middle East.


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## SG854 (Nov 21, 2017)

This is the police. Come out with your hands up.
This thread is being hijacked and held hostage by @WeedZ.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

It's just keeps getting deeper. I can't anymore.



SG854 said:


> This is the police. Come out with your hands up.
> This thread is being hijacked and held hostage by @WeedZ.


I surrender, don't shoot.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Wait, was it circulating us money when it took down rome? No. No, nevermind.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> It's just keeps getting deeper. I can't anymore.
> 
> 
> I surrender, don't shoot.
> ...


Dumbass.  The goal is not to take down the countries that you hijack economically.  It's to empower them under your economic scheme and yoke so that the country becomes a beast of burden so to say for "Israel."  And a mercenary army that stupidly pays out of it's own pocket as is the case with the U.S. right now.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Dumbass.  The goal is not to take down the countries that you hijack economically.  It's to empower them under your economic scheme and yoke so that the country becomes a beast of burden so to say for "Israel."  And a mercenary army that stupidly pays out of it's own pocket as is the case with the U.S. right now.


You lose an argument as soon as you resort to name calling. Just saying.


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## WeedZ (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Dumbass.  The goal is not to take down the countries that you hijack economically.  It's to empower them under your economic scheme and yoke so that the country becomes a beast of burden so to say for "Israel."  And a mercenary army that stupidly pays out of it's own pocket as is the case with the U.S. right now.


Let's just let these innocent people go, huh?


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## SG854 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> You lose an argument as soon as you resort to name calling. Just saying.


Fallacy. You loose an argument by making a bad argument. Not by name calling.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

SG854 said:


> Fallacy. You loose an argument by making a bad argument. Not by name calling.


People start to name when they lose making a point. When they can't respond properly to another argument that has just been said they get frustated and angry and resort to name calling. How can you be taken seriously in an argument when you resort to that. A proper argument should be respectful and being open towards another opinion. If you resort to name calling you're not open to another opinion and  your own faults wich makes it not an argument anymore so  yeah it does, you lose the argument because it's not  anymore.


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## Traiver (Nov 21, 2017)

That's why you have to study or maybe just think about it. I worked 2 years after school and now I'm studying computer science since I noticed, that you can't do anything with this low amount of money every month. Most of us live to work, no free time, hobbys or anything else that's left for... and that's not what life should be.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

Gosh, well


kumikochan said:


> People start to name when they lose making a point. When they can't respond properly to another argument that has just been said they get frustated and angry and resort to name calling. How can you be taken seriously in an argument when you resort to that. A proper argument should be respectful and being open towards another opinion. If you resort to name calling you're not open to another opinion and  your own faults wich makes it not an argument anymore so  yeah it does, you lose the argument because it's not  anymore.


Gosh, well if that's the case, then Weedz lost the argument from the very beginning of this thread when he called me "fucking stupid."  Not sure why i'm wasting my time here talking about history and world politics with a bunch of clueless Goys.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Gosh, well
> 
> Gosh, well if that's the case, then Weedz lost the argument from the very beginning of this thread when he called me "fucking stupid."  Not sure why i'm wasting my time here talking about history and world politics with a bunch of clueless Goys.


well yeah


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## SG854 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> People start to name when they lose making a point. When they can't respond properly to another argument that has just been said they get frustated and angry and resort to name calling. How can you be taken seriously in an argument when you resort to that. A proper argument should be respectful and being open towards another opinion. If you resort to name calling you're not open to another opinion and  your own faults wich makes it not an argument anymore so  yeah it does, you lose the argument because it's not  anymore.


Not always. Frustration can come from other things not necessarily from not having anything good to say. Like for example someone accusing me of something I didn't say and I cuss at them from frustration.

A respectable argument is typically what you would aim for but doesn't always happen. Not being open to another's opinion does not invalidate good points that you make. A bad argument does that. If we were talking about what states are in the US and I said, "Idiot, California is a real state in the United States," does that invalidate my argument because I said the word *idiot*. Does that make me loose the argument? Thats that mean I'm automatically wrong. Does that mean California doesn't exist. No it doesn't, cussing doesn't invalidate my points which is why its a fallacy.


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## xpoverzion (Nov 21, 2017)

WeedZ said:


> Something has to make the region so influential to make it responsible for the rise and fall of nations. It's not their booming first world tech, or arsenal of weaponry. Are you saying god is behind it?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> Christ, this threads been totally highjacked.. I'm sorry


Oh, and yeah, it's primarily banking and lending, or lack of, that causes the rise and fall of nations.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

SG854 said:


> Not always. Frustration can come from other things not necessarily from not having anything good to say. Like for example someone accusing me of something I didn't say and I cuss at them from frustration.
> 
> A respectable argument is typically what you would aim for but doesn't always happen. Not being open to another's opinion does not invalidate good points that you make. A bad argument does that. If we were talking about what states are in the US and I said, "Idiot, California is a real state in the United States," does that invalidate my argument because I said the word *idiot*. Does that make me loose the argument? Thats that mean I'm automatically wrong. Does that mean California doesn't exist. No it doesn't, cussing doesn't invalidate my points which is why its a fallacy.


An argument doesn't need to be wrong or correct. That's a bad argument or a good  argument. But resorting to name calling doesn't make it an argument anymore but an attack. Maybe it has to do with language differences and cultural differences wich also changes the meaning with how you view a word and maybe ''having an argument'' slightly has a different meaning here but sorta similar to your meaning but not quite. Atleast that's how i view it.


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## SG854 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> An argument doesn't need to be wrong or correct. That's a bad argument or a good  argument. But resorting to name calling doesn't make it an argument anymore but an attack. Maybe it has to do with language differences and cultural differences wich also changes the meaning with how you view a word and maybe ''having an argument'' slightly has a different meaning but similar then what it means to you. But that's how i view it atleast.


What I meant was debate. Sometimes I use those words interchangeably even though I shouldn't.

Even attacks doesn't invalidate a point. You may not like the attacks. So criticize the person for attacking you, and the attacking words they use, but don't say that it invalidates the entire debate especially if its a good one. Separate the debate from the attacks. Because a good debate stands with or without attacks.

There are debates that are wrong and correct, like fact based ones. The names of states for example. Not everything is subjective opinion. There are many debates that are objective.


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## choupette (Nov 21, 2017)

If Internet forums existed in the 30s, I suppose we would have seen a lot of people writing things like : "they don't work and they have more money than me". That is utter shit, it can't be real. You have a bad job, paying shit, and what do you do ? you're searching for a better job  ? you're getting angry at the people employing you because you can't get a raise ? No, you take it on someone else, spreading false rumors. I live in France, there were rumors that migrants would have a free flat and 3000€ per month. They do the same to oppose private and public sector. and then the extreme rises, don't play that game. Question yourself. If you think your goal is to earn more money, do something to earn more money.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

SG854 said:


> What I meant was debate. Sometimes I use those words interchangeably even though I shouldn't.
> 
> Even attacks doesn't invalidate a point. You may not like the attacks. So criticize the person for attacking you, and the attacking words they use, but don't say that it invalidates the entire argument especially if its a good one. Separate the argument from the attacks. Because a good argument stands with or without attacks.
> 
> There are arguments that are wrong and correct, like fact based ones. The names of states for example. Not everything is subjective opinion. There are many arguments that are objective.


Well to me personally an argument is lost as soon as people resort to name calling since that  person is not being assertive but agressive and there's no point having an argument to someone who puts themselves in an agressive  stance. Atleast that's how  it is to me and could be different for other people. And i don't mean that when argument is lost that it makes  it so that the other person automaticly has won. But gonna stop talking about this since i'm also hijacking this thread now it seems lol


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## leonmagnus99 (Nov 21, 2017)

hey buddy, it is not just Germany , there are quite alot of EU coutries who run this way, i have mixed feelings about it.

nevertheless it is a good thing, especially the health insurance stuff.

i believe even in canada they have this kind of thing.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

leonmagnus99 said:


> hey buddy, it is not just Germany , there are quite alot of EU coutries who run this way, i have mixed feelings about it.
> 
> nevertheless it is a good thing, especially the health insurance stuff.
> 
> i believe even in canada they have this kind of thing.


Yeah like i previously said. A system like this creates less poverty, less sickness, less crime and in the long run because of that it is cheaper for the entire Union then to commit money for homeless, crime, sickness and so forth. You Always have bad apples in every construct  and system  but a system like that creates more good apples then bad apples so it benefits people in the long run. Because if you do it differently, you get more bad apples and a large amount of bad apples do more harm then good ofcourse to everything. People are Always complaining about Europe but that doesn't take away that over 50 percent of the top 20 gdp countries are European, the euro is growing stronger each year and topping other first world currencies, less crime, less poverty, less difference between poor and rich and less debt then other first world nations in the world while leading in social Healthcare, education and green energy


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## SG854 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Well to me personally an argument is lost as soon as people resort to name calling since that  person is not being assertive but agressive and there's no point having an argument to someone who puts themselves in an agressive  stance. Atleast that's how  it is to me and could be different for other people.


Then its you not wanting to deal with the frustration so you check out. But checking out, leaving the argument, doesn't mean a person is wrong or an argument is lost, because thats a huge fallacy your saying right there, because how can an objective debate be wrong. All it just means is that you don't like to be around angry people. So with you, anyone that attacks you, you just zone them out and ignore them. So if someone wants your continued attention in a debate then they would have to be more calm about and not attack you. But going back it doesn't mean they lost if they do attack on an objective debate and you're totally wrong on that.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

SG854 said:


> Then its you not wanting to deal with the frustration so you check out. But checking out, leaving the argument, doesn't mean a person is wrong or an argument is lost, because thats a huge fallacy your saying right there, because how can an objective debate be wrong. All it just means is that you don't like to be around angry people. So with you, anyone that attacks you, you just zone them out and ignore them. So if someone wants your continued attention in a debate then they would have to be more calm about and not attack you. But going back it doesn't mean they lost if they do attack on an objective debate and you're totally wrong on that.


Again to me an argument is not an argument anymore since the other person resorts to attacking. I only have an argument with people that take  an assertive stance and not an agressive stance. To you that is backing out  but to me it isn't plus this is not what this thread is about and it seems to me you're not accepting my opinion. I'm accepting yours, i don't agree  with it but i can see what you're saying and i acknowledge  some of your points. Don't get why you're not doing that with mine and that i solely have to resort  to your opinion wich in a way is sorta an  agressive stance. Oh  well this is me backing out  then.


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## leonmagnus99 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Yeah like i previously said. A system like this creates less poverty, less sickness, less crime and in the long run because of that it is cheaper for the entire Union then to commit money for homeless, crime, sickness and so forth. You Always have bad apples in every construct  and system  but a system like that creates more good apples then bad apples so it benefits people in the long run. Because if you do it differently, you get more bad apples and a large amount of bad apples do more harm then good ofcourse to everything. People are Always complaining about Europe but that doesn't take away that over 50 percent of the top 20 gdp countries are European, the euro is growing stronger each year and topping other first world currencies, less crime, less poverty, less difference between poor and rich and less debt then other first world nations in the world while leading in social Healthcare, education and green energy



well put my dude, i wish iraq had a system like germany's haha..

iraq is so rich yet so corrupt , god knows where the money goes to.
if there existed only '1' government and it was non corrupt or at least much less corrupt they could probably implement such a system.

but iraq is a sad case in many ways.


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## smf (Nov 21, 2017)

windhazard said:


> It's hard to know if the person in question is sick or not. You can probably fake a mental illness and enjoy the advantages of hartz IV money.



You can also mug people and enjoy the advantages of their money. I know which crime I'd rather someone commit.

You'd probably become paranoid waiting for someone to figure out that you were faking it.



spinal_cord said:


> I have a friend (ex-friend really) who haven't worked more than a month their whole life and claims that their illness is preventing them from working. Their illness is mostly digestion related and very easily managed by eating the right food and completely avoiding some food all together. They would often use this for not eating out with us if we went to eat somewhere nice, however seemed to really like horrible cheap food that made them ill. Always complained about having no money, yet would always seem to be able to afford expensive equipment that related to their hobbies. All the while, would switch between unemployment and sickness based benefits every X amount of months, no doubt because each of them told them they had to get a job.
> People like that give genuine claimants a really bad name.



It sounds like your (ex) friend has an untreated mental health condition. They are self harming by eating food that is bad for them. I imagine they have self esteem issues and are probably depressed, otherwise they would seek a more productive life style.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

leonmagnus99 said:


> well put my dude, i wish iraq had a system like germany's haha..
> 
> iraq is so rich yet so corrupt , god knows where the money goes to.
> if there existed only '1' government and it was non corrupt or at least much less corrupt they could probably implement such a system.
> ...


Well corrupt politicians and people also exist in Europe. Where there is money and power there will Always be people who are corrupt. That is human nature and you will Always have that  in every political system and nation possible


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## leonmagnus99 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Well corrupt politicians and people also exist in Europe. Where there is money and power there will Always be people who are corrupt. That is human nature and you will Always have in every political system and nation possible


again well put, human why you so greedy .. *sigh*


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## Jayro (Nov 21, 2017)

Here in America, if you are homeless, lazy, pregnant, clinically mentally ill, illegally residing in the country as an undocumented immigrant, or any of those combined, you are eligible for:

*Free Housing...*
But it takes a _VERY_ long time, most waiting lists are well over a year or more to even be considered. Then, _IF_ you get lucky enough to be approved, you have *TONS* of restrictions for living there, like weekly inspections, limited visitors, assigned parking, quiet hours, and you can't modify ANYTHING that's part of the home/structure/building. You're basically a prisoner in your own "home". (Too chaotic and restrictive for me.)
The second part of this is you can join a volunteer group called Habitat For Humanity. You basically spend X amount of volunteer hours building homes with other volunteers, FOR a volunteer who has volunteered and met the hour requirement to have their house built. It's really cool! (I just don't know the number of volunteer hours involved to achieve having a home built for you)

*Free Healthcare...*
Well, almost. Well, okay not quite... It's a complicated mess, but it's not hard to sign up for it, and it covers very basic needs and costs. Most emergency (life-threatening) stuff is covered. I haven't had to use it yet, and I also haven't paid a cent since I've been on it either. But I can go to an Urgent Care and be seen within a few minutes, sometimes an hour or two if they are busy and short-staffed. You will still have to pay small amounts of cash on the spot, like a $20 co-pay for some prescriptions. *And the GoodRx app on your phone can even get you great discounts on your prescription drugs, with or without insurance!*

*Food Stamps...*
Food Stamps are basically a pre-loaded debit card for food benefits of up to $200 for a single person who isn't working, and if you have more people not working you get more food benefit amounts. You can work and bring home under a certain amount of money, and still quality for Food Stamps, but the amount will be calculated based on your _GROSS_ income (Before deductions and taxes are taken out) which isn't accurate at all to what you *ACTUALLY *take home (Your _NET_ income). For example, I work full-time and barely qualify for $17 a month, which won't buy me hardly shit to eat... But every little bit helps.

*WIC...*
This is a "Women and Children First" program by our government that gives paper vouchers for free baby formula and fresh produce. You simply have to meet an income requirement and you don't even need to prove you are pregnant. (I hope that changes and you have to take a pregnancy test to qualify, because people will fake it to get extra vouchers for friends etc, taking advantage of the program)

*Cash Benefits...*
Now don't get too excited... This again is income-calculated. You basically have to be homeless while _*somehow*_ paying $800+ a month in rent to qualify, and being pregnant or having kids helps. It's primarily for things that Food Stamps don't cover, such as diapers and baby wipes.

*Reduced-Price Bus Pass...*
To qualify for a reduced buss pass, you need to be either a Senior Citizen, an Honored Citizen (Usually medically-diagnosed with mental problems), or meet an income requirement. Some places of employment even have a deal worked out with city transit companies where you can get a reduced buss pass simply by being an employee of that company, to encourage less cars on the road for a more eco-friendly commute.

These all vary between states, but are more or less the same on a federal level.


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## DinohScene (Nov 21, 2017)

I live off health benefits.
But trust me, I'd rather work then almost being unable to pay bills from the measly benefits I get.
"free money"? oh hell no, no employer will take me due to others being more able bodied and I'm mostly in a constant pain due to it.


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## orcid (Nov 21, 2017)

You should try to live from the amount of Hartz 4 for a few month. You think that you don't have much more to spend each month with you 1400 Euro job, but with Hartz 4 you spend every month everything for food and your flat. Almost nothing will be left. Having more money and if it is only 50 Euro or a few hundred makes a big difference. This is the money you can spend for yourself and to improve your overall quality of life. Also you are able to save some money for the case of an emergency.


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## Jayro (Nov 21, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I live off health benefits.
> But trust me, I'd rather work then almost being unable to pay bills from the measly benefits I get.
> "free money"? oh hell no, no employer will take me due to others being more able bodied and I'm mostly in a constant pain due to it.


fibromyalgia?


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## Youkai (Nov 21, 2017)

choupette said:


> If Internet forums existed in the 30s, I suppose we would have seen a lot of people writing things like : "they don't work and they have more money than me". That is utter shit, it can't be real. You have a bad job, paying shit, and what do you do ? you're searching for a better job  ? you're getting angry at the people employing you because you can't get a raise ? No, you take it on someone else, spreading false rumors. I live in France, there were rumors that migrants would have a free flat and 3000€ per month. They do the same to oppose private and public sector. and then the extreme rises, don't play that game. Question yourself. If you think your goal is to earn more money, do something to earn more money.




Well I never said the refugees are at fault and I never sayed that everyone who is getting this help is automatically a slacker (even if it might have sounded like this) 
Of course there are people who need it and even people who might "deserve" it (if you can call it that) because they worked a long time and just lost their job or whatever.

Still there are way to many people abusing the system ... there are even some "famous" slacker who went to TV and had their life documented showing other people how to abuse the system as much as possible. 

Here is an explanation in English about Hartz4/ALG2 https://www3.arbeitsagentur.de/web/...il/index.htm?dfContentId=L6019022DSTBAI485759

Of course there are lots of restrictions but if you use just a little time in learning about this stuff you can abuse it so easily -.-V
Like as an example you are not allowed to have lots of savings so what do they do ? give the money to their parents or not married partner or whatever ... 
another thing, you are not allowed to have your own house (i think you are allowed to have a small one or a flat? not entirely sure) so either you sell it which brings you money you need to get away to get Hartz4 or again you give it to someone else and if its not to big you can rent your own flat and even earn more money with this (doubt that there are lots of people doing it but than again I doubt noone is doing it) 
Or if they want a new washing maschine the old one just needs to break somehow or "vanish" ... there is some work to do to get a new one but you usually get it if its needed.

They should just give out vouchers for whatever and it would be much better ... there are a lot of organisations who collect money to give children from Hartz4 Parents something to eat as their parents use the money for cigarets and alcohol instead for their children. Every calculation you can find online or make yourself or seen in TV shows that it is possible to live a propper life..


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## DinohScene (Nov 21, 2017)

Jayro said:


> fibromyalgia?



Close but nope.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Well I never said the refugees are at fault and I never sayed that everyone who is getting this help is automatically a slacker (even if it might have sounded like this)
> Of course there are people who need it and even people who might "deserve" it (if you can call it that) because they worked a long time and just lost their job or whatever.
> 
> Still there are way to many people abusing the system ... there are even some "famous" slacker who went to TV and had their life documented showing other people how to abuse the system as much as possible.
> ...


and by doing that you create more bad apples then good apples and by doing  that you create a system wich will cost a lot more due to rising crimes, poverty, difference between poor and rich etc. You have to look at it future wise and by doing all of that and changing the system will cost a lot  more  then you're paying now. I rather have those couple of people abusing the system that cost a bit of money then all that other shit that's gonna  cost more money from your pocket because this is sustainable and something else isn't and you see that in other non european countries  And if it was so bad then you wouldn't have all those points i brought  up in previous comments. Look how Europe was before world war 2 happened. You had  a different system back then and believe me it wasn't good


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## DinohScene (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> and by doing that you create more bad apples then good apples and by doing  that you create a system wich will cost a lot more due to rising crimes, poverty, difference between poor and rich etc. You have to look at it future wise and by doing all of that and changing the system will cost a lot  more  then you're paying now. I rather have those couple of people abusing the system that cost a bit of money then all that other shit that's gonna  cost more money from your pocket because this is sustainable and something else isn't and you see that in other non european countries  And if it was so bad then you wouldn't have all those points i brought  up in previous comments.



Be glad there isn't a Luxembourgh cartel that is akin to the Sinaloa cartel.
Shit could indeed be far worse.


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## InsaneNutter (Nov 21, 2017)

Traiver said:


> Most of us live to work, no free time, hobbys or anything else that's left for... and that's not what life should be.



It feels like that when your getting up for work at 6:30 in a morning then it's 6pm at night when you get home. By the time you've had some food your too tired to do anything else.

I'd like the work / life balance to be better, maybe work 4 days a week, have 3 off.

I guess i shouldn't complain too much its probably a lot worse in some countries and a lot better in some too, so could be worse than been in the middle.


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## Clydefrosch (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Hey there,
> I am slightly pissed again as I just read that here in Germany the "Hartz4" money will be highered again and I really feel like its not worth to Work anymore ... would like to know what you think about it.
> 
> Imagine, when you life in Germany and do not work you get :
> ...



then maybe get fired and try to live that life for a few months.
that might change your view of how great it is to live that life



Youkai said:


> oO sorry to be rude but this sounds a little bit like those people who still say the earth is flat and that the round earth is just brainwashing XD
> 
> I can admit there is often at least a tiny little bit truth about some stuff like this ... America and Europe spending way to much money that they don't have in the middle east and so on but yeah ... talking about beeing their slaves is overexaggerating
> 
> ...



Jesus you got arbeitslosengeld 1, you barely have to do anything to get that. you earned that for having worked a certain ammount of time.
but after a year, you end up in hartz 4 = arbeitslosengeld 2 meaning you have to send out X applications every week/months and have to prove you actually send them. sometimes they want to see the applications and if they feel you didn't do your best (like adding that you're not as flexible due to caring for a child) they might take 10% of your H4 (and if you mention that in multiple applications they will try and punish that multiple times).
you will be invited regularily to visit your jobcenter (which gets hard if you have no car) and missing an appointment leads to cuts to H4 money.

should any application get a positive answer, you have to take that job. no matter how beneath your education and previous job, even if it wouldnt pay for all your bills, even if it would be detrimental to your health (say you've always had a bad knee, you'll still have to do heavy lifting if whoever offers you the job wants you).
and yes, if your jobcenter worker wants you to send an application to a bonebreaking factory job, you have to write a good application, preferably one that doesnt include anything that could hinder your application (like mentioning a bad knee)


also, while its moderately easy to find a doctor that would attest you're sick for a few days (though not half as easy as you make it sound), to get out of having to work or apply for jobs, you'll have to go to one of the jobcenters docs. unless you're coughing blood, dont expect them to say you're unfit for work.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 21, 2017)

Interesting.

I hope I one day live to see the end of work. With the rise of automation, excess able to be produced and increasing levels of specialisation I can see it happening in my lifetime. As it stands we are already seeing the start of it with competition among the baseline jobs such that it is more make work/time passing than it might have been a few decades ago. Society and civilisation has always been about increasing excess to allow for other things, and we are probably on the cusp of another big leap. I don't know if some kind of universal income is achievable yet but the numbers are worth continually running, this is also regardless of where you fall on the wanting minimal pain and suffering for your fellow man or law of the jungle still applies spectrum.

There are some fairly perverse incentives at play as well. Several times people seem to want to employ a large staff because it makes them feel important, be it running their own business or just some kind of middle/local management.

I don't know German healthcare that well but it sounds like it could stand to be cheaper, or have more things free on it. Though it is seemingly not as bad as the US was last time I was there (this was pre ACA/Obamacare), or maybe some of eastern Europe (speak to some people dealing in mental health about what they saw as various countries there joined the travel and work areas).

On the flip side I occasionally speak to people in high flying finance type jobs. They tell me they work many many hours a week, but get compensated handsomely. I ask why not work less but get paid similar amounts to what many others happily and comfortably live life on. A few restructured to allow that (a lot of said places have a model to allow those with kids to still do for them, time is time in the end) but most look at me like I am speaking gibberish, I typically return the favour.

Or if you prefer consider what it is that makes you value work as you do. It mostly seems to be tradition. Said tradition might also frown on you being unmarried, childless, not doing the religion bit, not owning property, not having provisions for the future. Given that tradition has been told in various degrees to go fuck itself for each of those on said list I have to wonder if work for work's sake is not next up on the block.



tatripp said:


> A lot of America's poor is extremely fat. It's very ironic.


Were it still 1800 and we all mostly grew our own food then yeah I could find a statement of "we live in a time where even the poorest in society can afford to be fat" to have something good to say. However it is so much cheaper to eat sugar, fat and salt laden processed crap in the modern US. I eat healthily because it is cheap to do so and makes me feel good but when I go visit the US I have to work at that. I am not sure what I want to believe on it but when people tell me those in poor areas also lack access to fresh fruit and veg I can believe it -- more anecdotal than not but we were fixing someone's truck in a poorer neighbourhood and were hungry, I toddled off to the shop to buy some grapes or something like I might do in Europe and had to return with sugar, plastic wrapped meat or meat heated under a lightbulb, that was just a corner shop though but we stopped by a local bigger shop and it was not much better. I might also wonder what schools are doing as far as teaching nutrition as well, or indeed not teaching such things.


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## Youkai (Nov 21, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> then maybe get fired and try to live that life for a few months.
> that might change your view of how great it is to live that life
> 
> Jesus you got arbeitslosengeld 1, you barely have to do anything to get that. you earned that for having worked a certain ammount of time.
> ...




I guess you really believe that Humans are good people do you ?

There are lots of ways not to get a job if you don't want to and the do not controll you as much as you think they do 
How else can you explain people like that one friend of mine who only write an application once every few weeks and doesn't get into trouble with this ? 

Of course I never got Hartz4 / ALG2 so I haven't experienced it myself and can only say what I see in tv read in the news and get told by my friend (his brother gets Hartz4 as well -.-V its shameful for their parents) even if you need to write applications every now and then you could send out "bad" ones or have some stuff missing or wrong or whatever and if they still invite you for test working you come late or bring an paper from the doc saying your are ill or whatever.

And yes its easy to get this from many doctors ... my Mother pretended to be ill for many month untill she finaly got her pension with an age of only 40 years ! now she might really be ill but thats because of all the drugs and alcohol and cigarets and whatever she took -.-V still you can make most doctors believe sooner or later even if they can't find anything.
And my former doctor who barely let my grandparents and other people I know die because he never really looked at them gave you whatever medicine you wanted and usually only asked most people "how long you want to stay at home?" ... while I usually told him "as long as you think is required" I once just said "3 weeks" and say what ? 3 weeks extra holliday because my head hurt and I didn't want to go to work that one day like this ...


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## choupette (Nov 21, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> I live off health benefits.
> But trust me, I'd rather work then almost being unable to pay bills from the measly benefits I get.
> "free money"? oh hell no, no employer will take me due to others being more able bodied and I'm mostly in a constant pain due to it.



That's what I am about. I'm happy to pay taxes for people in this kind of situation. As I'll be happy to be helped if I ever have the bad luck of suffering from something like this.
I visited usa this summer, it's a great country, people are really nice I have alot of good things to say about it (in Seattle at least ^^'). But it's a country where you have to pray everyday to have a good health.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 21, 2017)

"what I see in tv read in the news and get told by my friend (his brother gets Hartz4 as well -.-V its shameful for their parents"

Have you seen how awful and prone to clickbait/sensationalism TV news and papers are these days? Likewise if there is shame involved it can colour what they think. I am not amazingly familiar with German tabloids but there are enough people covering their failings that I know it not to be a utopia free from such things.

"now she might really be ill but thats because of all the drugs and alcohol and cigarets and whatever she took"
Self inflicted damage may warrant a course of treatment afterwards but it tends to be frowned upon to only give medical care to those that suffered accidents or unfortunate genetics. By similar token if the end result is she is unfit for work then what is gained by leaving her to starve or die of exposure?


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

I think most people that actually leech off the state here in Germany are locals, not immigrants.
You could also add some refugees to that, probably (where probably means yes).

I've ever considered the Hartz4 the subsidy for terminal alcoholism, I don't know if it helps it or make it worse, but oh hell it supports that lifestyle so much.

At least I want to think that it makes life safer for everybody else, as at least these people are not in urgent need of money and therefore they don't need to come after the woking citizen and rob/fuck him up. Wishful thinking, perhaps.

Sometime, it may be that you require Hartz4 support, but that itself should be so ashaming that you should work your way out ASAP, of course that is so only in my mind perhaps, I've met some blatant young Germans that get Hartz4, don't seem to have any plan to stop getting it, and secretly they actually work to earn more (but never would they stop leeching the state).

What can I say? I have mixed feelings about it.
On the one hand I believe it is a required type of support, on the other hand it being abused makes me sad, and still I think that even abused it is better for it to be there.

That said, shit it is too little money, how could they settle for that instead of just getting their stuff together a little?


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## Taffy (Nov 21, 2017)

Not to derail the topic, but this is "The German Way" as a friend of mine said...





damn germans have it lucky.

That being said, as nice as an easy life is, what you described isn't really my definition of "easy".


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## Nightwish (Nov 21, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> Oh, and yeah, it's primarily banking and lending, or lack of, that causes the rise and fall of nations.



Yeah, no, that's not how a fiat currency works for a sovereign state that gets to define the value of the currency. The US has plenty of better policies to make than to worry about the deficit and the debt.


On topic
Yes, there are people who abuse such systems, it's true. However, it's pretty clear that most people on them cannot and will not have a chance at a good and productive life without a brace in a time of need, but let's also not forget the swaths of unemployables created by neoliberalism that, apparently, people would rather see beg on the street.
And yet, compared to the amount of tax evasion and corporate welfare going around, or how stupid and wasteful supply side economics is, this is what people are manipulated to worry about to think that matters. I'm sorry, it doesn't, it's not your fellow precariat who is bringing you down.


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## Julizi (Nov 21, 2017)

Social benefits and the payments of health insurances were dramatically shortened by Gerhard Schröder in 2003. Obviously, he got rewarded with a motion of no confidence and Merkel's chancellorship.
And if you just look at the results of the last election where his party got 20.5%, people obviously do not care about raising wages or ban time limited employment contracts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Deleted member 408979 (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Hey there,
> I am slightly pissed again as I just read that here in Germany the "Hartz4" money will be highered again and I really feel like its not worth to Work anymore ... would like to know what you think about it.
> 
> Imagine, when you life in Germany and do not work you get :
> ...



Mate, I ain't from germany but I bet that it's a low status symbol to only live with what the government gives you. ALso, at least your country gives you money for just existing, all mexico does it take it away.


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## Nightwish (Nov 21, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I've met some blatant young Germans that get Hartz4, don't seem to have any plan to stop getting it, and secretly they actually work to earn more (but never would they stop leeching the state).



If it's the same as in other countries, and it is because Germany made the economic rules for the eurozone, the alternative is getting a low paying job every few months until the employers consider you too old. There's a 20% un/underemployment gap on average that  is a major drain on EU's productivity that isn't going away anytime soon and will have dramatic consequences. And yet, Deutsche Bank is still broke and we'll have to keep propping it up.


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## leon315 (Nov 21, 2017)

this is what happened when u guys have voted Merkel ja?? joke aside german's gov can afford this unlike italian's, when u can'T pay a flat fees, u get literally kick out from where you live, and i love it.

I have a humble job too, and parasites have NO rights living on taxpayers' shoulder!!


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## naddel81 (Nov 21, 2017)

One problem in good old Germany is: Doing hard work does not always pay out.
I studied three years longer than most of my school mates (=Abitur) which is nowadays somewhat the minimum grade you have to have to become a barber in Germany.
Then I did two university degrees which took me additional 4 years. Those 7 years without a dime of income is what my former school mates have already earned money. Of course not too much in their first three years of learning in a job. But now you would assume I am earning twice as much as them? To be honest: no!
I get 2400€ which is only slightly more than most of my school mates get. But they did not have to wait 7 years to make money.
Will I ever catch up to their 7 year financial advantage? not in my life, I suppose. Obviously not until I am 60 years old.
If I learned two things in my short life until now then it is:
*1. you do not need hard work or a good education (it helps), you need luck and good connections!
2. working hard and working in a social environment might be good for your karma, but it is definitely not good for your bank account!*


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## Nightwish (Nov 21, 2017)

relevant:

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=37429


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## Julizi (Nov 21, 2017)

leon315 said:


> this is what happened when u guys have voted Merkel ja??


Merkel's party was the one which vetoed an exceptionless minimum wage (currently 8,84€ but for not every job as a rotten compromise to her partner SPD), ban of time limited employment contracts (which are a huge problem in Germany) and a right of return in your full-time job if you changed into a half-time job to raise kids.


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## Bimmel (Nov 21, 2017)

Work and make the world a better place. Oh, and distance yourself from these people. Peck.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

Nightwish said:


> If it's the same as in other countries, and it is because Germany made the economic rules for the eurozone, the alternative is getting a low paying job every few months until the employers consider you too old. There's a 20% un/underemployment gap on average that  is a major drain on EU's productivity that isn't going away anytime soon and will have dramatic consequences. And yet, Deutsche Bank is still broke and we'll have to keep propping it up.


How did Germany made the economic rules for the Eurozone ? According to me Belgium is the capital of Europe and Belgium, Luxemburg started the whole Union thing. The whole Euro currency was even started by Belgium. It's Always funny because non Europeans see Merkel a lot in the news that they Always assume Germany being the leader of Europe while
it's not.
I don't even see Germany in this list. In fact Germany  has the same GDP as Belgium while  being 10 times as big and almost having 10 times the citizens so that makes it  also 10 times as poor.

http://www.trendingtopmost.com/worl...20-2021/world/richest-european-countries-gdp/


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> How did Germany made the economic rules for the Eurozone ? According to me Belgium is the capital of Europe and Belgium, Luxemburg started the whole Union thing. The whole Euro currency was even started by Belgium.


You're right, actually people and companies abusing subsides is Belgium's fault... /s
(you know, it feels always better to point your finger somewhere else)


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## Julizi (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> I don't even see Germany in this list. In fact Germany has the same GDP as Belgium while being 10 times as big and almost having 10 times the citizens so that makes it also 10 times as poor.


Germany has the fourth highest GDP in the world. Only China, USA and Japan have a higher one. You are talking about the GDP per capita which is indeed almost equal to the Belgian GDP (Germany has ~700$ more).
Think before you write.



kumikochan said:


> Merkel a lot in the news that they Always assume Germany being the leader of Europe while


Berlin is a veto power in the Council of the European Union and the country with the highest GDP in the EU. Technically there is no way to pass EU policies without Germany.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

Julizi said:


> Germany has the fourth highest GDP in the world. Only China, USA and Japan have a higher one. You are talking about the GDP per capita which is indeed almost equal to the Belgian GDP (Germany has ~700$ more).
> Think before you write.
> 
> 
> Berlin is a veto power in the Council of the European Union and the country with the highest GDP in the EU.


Someone being salty that other european countries are  richer then Germany is ?


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Nope it doesn't
> please provide me multiple 2017 links of your claims but it clearly isn't


I recommend you limit your quote to the part you're replying to, it is not clear if you mean "It doesn't have the fourth biggest GDP", or "It doesn't have veto power". (though logic would suggest you imply the latter)


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I recommend you limit your quote to the part you're replying to, it is not clear if you mean "It doesn't have the fourth biggest GDP", or "It doesn't have veto power". (though logic would suggest you imply the latter)


another salty german that other european countries hold more power and are richer


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> another salty german that other european countries hold more power and are richer


I am Argentine.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I am Argentine.


your flag says differently tho


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> your flag says differently tho


Because I live in Germany, it is "location", not "nationality".
Anyway, I am only suggesting you how to quote to make it easy to understand what you mean.
No idea how you took that as "salty whatever agression".


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## Julizi (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Nope it doesn't
> please provide me multiple 2017 links of your claims but it clearly isn't


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
How is the IWF supposed to measure the GDP of a year that ain't over yet?

However it projects that Germany stays on rank 4 in 2017 (which is not a suprise since Germany is experiencing an economic boom currently)
http://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-projected-gdp.php

If you talking about the GDP (PPP) India is on rank 3 which makes Japan rank 4 persp. Germany rank 5 but since you aren't able to distinguish between a GDP per capita and a GDP of a whole country, I highly doubt that you know the difference between GDP (nominal) and GDP (PPP).


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Because I live in Germany, it is "location", not "nationality".
> Anyway, I am only suggesting you how to quote to make it easy to understand what you mean.
> No idea how you took that as "salty whatever agression".


Well, if you live  in a country it's only natural for you to defend it in an argument no ? So you being born in another country doesn't have anything to do with it

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Julizi said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
> How is the IWF supposed to measure the GDP of a year that ain't over yet?
> 
> However it projects that Germany stays on rank 4 in 2017 (which is not a suprise since Germany is experiencing an economic boom currently)
> ...


But it still makes your country more  poor  then 10 other European countries, no ? And that doesn't take away the capital of Europe is Brussels no ? I just hate it that people outside of Europe always see Germany as  the leader of Europe  when it clearly isn't at all just because Merkel is in the news a lot. Like that one person claiming that Germany made the European economic rules wich is bullshit and that's just because Merkel is  in the news a lot that people Always think stuff like that for  some reason.


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Well, if you live  in a country it's only natural for you to defend it in an argument no ? So you being born in another country doesn't have anything to do with it


Whatever, but see what happens when you don't quote clearly.
The actual person that could troll about it (answering the former part, not the latter), actually did it, making the conversation further into the off topic land. That could have been avoided.

PS: One could also try to be unbiased, you know, to actually try to have a conversation, learn new points of view and understand themselves better. Wherever you live or wherever you were born doesn't automatically make you a stubborn blind person that would go into a conversation chanting like a hoolingan in a football match against the rival team.


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## Coto (Nov 21, 2017)

Bimmel said:


> Work and make the world a better place. Oh, and distance yourself from these people. Peck.


I was expecting someone to post this.

I agree 100%.


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## Julizi (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> But it still makes your country more poor then 10 other European countries, no ? And that doesn't take away the capital of Europe is Brussels no ?


Are you seriously comparing countries like Switzerland, Luxemburg or Monaco with a country like Germany or Belgium? Those countries make a bunch of money with capital transactions and should not be compared to countries with a producing industry. Also I've never said that Germany is the richest country in Europe, it may have the highest GDP but that does not mean wealth for everyone since Germany has a huge problem with it's low-pay sector. (In German we use the picture of the "Scissor between poor and wealth" that opens more and more)

And Brüssel is where the office of some of the major EU institutions is but I do not see where there should be an advantage for Belgium.


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## kumikochan (Nov 21, 2017)

Julizi said:


> Are you seriously comparing countries like Switzerland, Luxemburg or Monaco with a country like Germany or Belgium? Those countries make a bunch of money with capital transactions and should not be compared to countries with a producing industry. Also I've never said that Germany is the richest country in Europe, it may have the highest GDP but that does not mean wealth for everyone since Germany has a huge problem with it's low-pay sector. (In German we use the picture of the "Scissor between poor and wealth" that opens more and more)
> 
> And Brüssel is where the office of some of the major EU institutions is but I do not see where there should be an advantage for Belgium.


Like i said, i'm just saying Germany isn't the leader of the EU like a lot of non europeans always think just because Merkel is a lot in the news. The president of the European parlement is Antonio Tajani, while the president of the European council is Donal Tusk from Poland and the president of the European commission is  Jean claude Juncker from Belgium.
I just don't  like it that people Always claim Germany has everything to do with the Union while it isn't. Not to take anything away from your country but people  in general have a wrong view about Europe outside of Europe. Ofcourse not everybody thinks that but a lot of reporters outside of Europe aalways make it seem like that by mostly showing Merkel and nobody else.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Nov 21, 2017)

I don't necessarily see a problem with that policy


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 21, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> I don't necessarily see a problem with that policy


The policy is needed IMHO.
But there should be some measures to avoid it being abused.
It should help you get along in bad times, and it does so.
It could be abused to avoid working, and it also is.
IMHO, it should help you to stand up again, move forward, and become self-reliant.
It is a double-edged sword, but it still is needed.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 21, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> Like i said, i'm just saying Germany isn't the leader of the EU like a lot of non europeans always think just because Merkel is a lot in the news. The president of the European parlement is Antonio Tajani, while the president of the European council is Donal Tusk from Poland and the president of the European commission is  Jean claude Juncker from Belgium.
> I just don't  like it that people Always claim Germany has everything to do with the Union while it isn't. Not to take anything away from your country but people  in general have a wrong view about Europe outside of Europe. Ofcourse not everybody thinks that but a lot of reporters outside of Europe aalways make it seem like that by mostly showing Merkel and nobody else.



That is just being pedantic. You know full well if Germany says something that others will listen, and other places will look to Germany's position, where if somewhere like Estonia said something then not so much.

I agree the EU does not seem quite as... blocky as the likes of America or some of the smaller subdivisions within European countries, Belgium itself being a rather spectacular example of that, but to assume Germany doesn't curry more than its 29 votes... yeah.


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## Clydefrosch (Nov 21, 2017)

Youkai said:


> I guess you really believe that Humans are good people do you ?
> 
> There are lots of ways not to get a job if you don't want to and the do not controll you as much as you think they do
> How else can you explain people like that one friend of mine who only write an application once every few weeks and doesn't get into trouble with this ?


I would guess by them actually doing more than what you think they do?
this isn't how any job center operates, your friend has his quota of applications and he's certainly abiding by it.



Youkai said:


> Of course I never got Hartz4 / ALG2 so I haven't experienced it myself and can only say what I see in tv read in the news and get told by my friend (his brother gets Hartz4 as well -.-V its shameful for their parents) even if you need to write applications every now and then you could send out "bad" ones or have some stuff missing or wrong or whatever and if they still invite you for test working you come late or bring an paper from the doc saying your are ill or whatever.



why is the guy who measures how arbeitslosengeld 2 works on his experience receiving arbeitslosengeld 1 trying to explain anything something to me?
I've received H4 for about a year after i finished my masters degree.
the first thing that happend was they put me in a 2 month program to teach me how to write my resume. together with a bunch of 50+ year olds who never operated a pc and teens who quit school early. all the while, i had a 5 application quota and was called in every three weeks so they could fill their quotas.
and if you do those things, like sending out bad applications, they will punish you.
i know this is not a thing that happens on tv (because guess what? that stuff isnt real), but its a thing that happens in the real world if you dont play by their rules.
but again, I invite you to quit your job and see how much easier life is once you're on H4.




Youkai said:


> And yes its easy to get this from many doctors ... my Mother pretended to be ill for many month untill she finaly got her pension with an age of only 40 years ! now she might really be ill but thats because of all the drugs and alcohol and cigarets and whatever she took -.-V still you can make most doctors believe sooner or later even if they can't find anything.


my guess is you're a little piece of shit and your mother was ill in one way or another. you don't pretend to be ill and binge drugs and alcohol because you're fine.
your anecdotal evidence does not undo reality. the system is inherently unfair and not just to the people in it. because H4 receivers cant say no to any job, no matter the conditions, its a pretty big part in why your wage has been almost stagnant for over a decade now. why ever raise wages like in the good old days when people can be legally forced to work for nothing?



Youkai said:


> And my former doctor who barely let my grandparents and other people I know die because he never really looked at them gave you whatever medicine you wanted and usually only asked most people "how long you want to stay at home?" ... while I usually told him "as long as you think is required" I once just said "3 weeks" and say what ? 3 weeks extra holliday because my head hurt and I didn't want to go to work that one day like this ...



yeah we all know stories of such doctors, but neither are they the norm, they're also getting ever more rare. because guess what, insurers have been working to get rid of those rather successfully. also, the jobcenter can order a second opinion if they feel like you and your doctor are cheating the system. (which can also entail a hefty cut to h4)

jesus man, i'm not saying its impossible to settle inside this system, but if you've never been inside, stop judging. its not half as nice as your delusional fantasies.

why are you even whining, the H4 raise doesnt even offset inflation since the last raise. (and it hasnt for years).


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## dAVID_ (Nov 22, 2017)

Oh man, that's nothing! Try coming here to Mexico, where the minimum wage is just under $5 USD. And you said it was too little!


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## Youkai (Nov 22, 2017)

Clydefrosch said:


> my guess is you're a little piece of shit.



thanks -.-V

first I wasn't talking about medica drugs but druggy drugs like LSD, Heroin and Kokain and whatever you can imagin ... 

second, no idea where you live but I guess there is a hugh difference in the job center around Germany, maybe you had bad luck with yours ...
I know about these "got 2 hours a day into some kind of school to learn hot to write an application" stuff, another friend who finaly got work had to go there and he told me there was hardly ever any teacher there so they even had to tell the Job Center several Times about it untill they finaly could go to another place which wasn't much better. He came to my place to let me check his stuff some times (even though I don't really know any better) and now he finaly got a place where he can do a proper job training (earning 300€ a month)


Don't know if they do something about the doctors but I know enough people that told me over and over again that they have similiar doctors ... after I moved town for my new job (moved 200km away to work!) I haven't seen any doctor nearby who would do that but thats actually a good thing ... I hardly ever go to a doc if not really needed and if I need it I want him/her to look at me...



And about trying to live from Hartz4 money ... I did 2 ! Job training the first one 3 1/2 year with a salary of 800€ and the second one 3 years with 700-800€ and from this money I still had to pay everything except that I wasn't allowed to get the cheap food offers for the jobless and the cheap clothes as they want proof that you are poor (maybe I could have gotten something like this but no idea where from) living with my gf who is a student in her last Master year right know we got another 400€ from her parents so we hat ~1200 for 2 people that was less than my jobless friend and his wife got if you count in the money for the flat.
Of course its hard to go to the government for the money (for some people) and beg for it but than again I wouldn't like to sit on the street and beg people for money as some do ... It is probably a different story for everyone.
That one friend who finaly got a Job even told me he did some illegal stuff like seeling drugs he got in the netherlands back in Germany because he had no money and because of some circumstances he didn't got Hartz4 (he did quit his former mini job himself making him not getting any money for 3 month) still if you know what you are doing you can do it withouth much of a problem.

If you "work" and learn how the system works you can benefit from it a lot, if you just use it withouth learning how to play the game you will probably loose and really have a Problem.




P.S. just yesterday at Gallileo they said in Germany we use about 6,50€ a day for food and they checked if that is possible if you mainly eat at Fast Food places, as most of the not so intelligent people often claim it should be the cheapest possible option ... 
They checked and for these 6,50 a day you could hardly get anything at the most well known places ... only Ikea was really cheap but than again they are not really a fast food chain ^^V
I know it doesn't really has much to do with hartz4 but mainly the not so intelligent people need this (and those who might just slack of or preffer to abuse the system) you can imagine why many of them might really have money problems.


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## Joom (Nov 22, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> An American who is fed up with the wealth of the nation being squandered on foreign affairs.


Don't worry. Donald Trump is here to drain the swamp and make America great again. We'll all be wiping our asses with gold in no time.


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## kumikochan (Nov 22, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> That is just being pedantic. You know full well if Germany says something that others will listen, and other places will look to Germany's position, where if somewhere like Estonia said something then not so much.
> No it's not. Don't be so full of yourself
> I agree the EU does not seem quite as... blocky as the likes of America or some of the smaller subdivisions within European countries, Belgium itself being a rather spectacular example of that, but to assume Germany doesn't curry more than its 29 votes... yeah.


No they don't. Don't be so full of yourself. Never ever saw where belgium, france or the netherlands ever followed what merkel said. Belgium as an example is kicking out refugees constantly while your country opens them with open arms. Your country accepts Erdogan with open arms while Belgium tells him that he can't do speeches in public and kicking out turkish officials during Turkish election. How is that following Germany ?


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## FAST6191 (Nov 22, 2017)

kumikochan said:


> No they don't. Don't be so full of yourself. Never ever saw where belgium, france or the netherlands ever followed what merkel said. Belgium as an example is kicking out refugees constantly while your country opens them with open arms. Your country accepts Erdogan with open arms while Belgium tells him that he can't do speeches in public and kicking out turkish officials during Turkish election. How is that following Germany ?


Free speech type issues aside those are minor trifling things. When it comes to things that really matter to people other than tabloid headline writers Germany's already considerable clout is rather magnified.


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 22, 2017)

The reality is that there is a limited freedom, any given country can boast so much, but they end up being limited by the decisions and possible punishments coming from the bigger fishes that impact on their economy, on their policy, and on the boundaries of their freedom.
Don't worry, as much "influence" Germany may or may not have regarding one or other vote, America and China have a lot more influence on the EU and on Germany themselves.


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## kumikochan (Nov 22, 2017)

FAST6191 said:


> Free speech type issues aside those are minor trifling things. When it comes to things that really matter to people other than tabloid headline writers Germany's already considerable clout is rather magnified.


And that was my point. Headline writers mostly talk about Merkel making non europeans think that merkel holds the most power in the union while she clearly doesn't. Other european countries don't follow what merkel does.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 22, 2017)

So I feel sorry for people that don't read beyond the headlines, especially those which think the political top offices really matter (it seems they are figureheads in most of Europe). I still maintain that Germany in addition to its own large number of votes hold considerable sway over much of Europe (they say vote this way and look at this nice trade contract for your natural resources you are mining which will appear, you think Spain is going to buy them?) and in turn. The two things are not mutually exclusive.


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## Quantumcat (Nov 23, 2017)

Haven't read all the replies, but to those thinking on the negative: this sort of policy creates upward pressure on wages. No one can get away with paying their workers chicken feed, because no one would work for that little if they could have the same quality of life without working. The reason US companies can get away with paying some of their workers so little that even working full time they are in effective poverty is because there is practically no social safety net. Is it really something to be proud of that you could work 40 hours a week and only be able to afford a broken down 1 bedroom apartment for you and your 3 children, and sometimes not have enough money for food or bills? I don't think that is something worth celebrating personally. In Germany if you're willing to work you can live comfortably, and if you lose your job you aren't going to become homeless and starve while you look for a new one, because your country cares about its citizens and will look after them. In the US if you are from a poor family that couldn't afford college for you, you can look forward to being poor all your life even if you work your fingers to the bone. If you lose your job and can't get a new one right away, hello living on the street. Which country do you think is "freer".


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## FAST6191 (Nov 23, 2017)

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/09/pf/cost-of-raising-a-child-2015/index.html
"$233,610 to raise a child born in 2015..... And that number only covers costs from birth through age 17"

Multiply that by three (though maybe 2.5 if you can hand down clothes and were not lumped with triplets or something).

Relevant as of the last one


In discussions like this though I do find the US... appearance of detached callousness to be odd or at least bemusing.

I shall stop there though as I will be linking comedy sketches for hours if I start now.


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## Nightwish (Nov 24, 2017)

Bimmel said:


> Work and make the world a better place. .



I keep hearing of this mystical jobland where wages are livable and you don't get sacked for being sick. Not that I can personally complain as a software developer.
There's also plenty of work that makes the world a worst place, TBH.



kumikochan said:


> How did Germany made the economic rules for the Eurozone ?


You're right, it's not. Merkel and Schäuble were/are just the front for the European Financial system, and I'm sure we'll know many not-really-surprising revelations about the implementation of ordoliberalism, but there's many a tale about the EC and the ECB to be told as well.



Joom said:


> Don't worry. Donald Trump is here to drain the swamp and make America great again. We'll all be wiping our asses with gold in no time.



That's the thing with modern economics: it's not connected to precious metals anymore, so common sense doesn't apply at all. It still isn't hard to get that half of his fiscal incentives will leave immediately to foreign investors, though.


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 24, 2017)

Life's still good. At least you have good weather.
Don't underestimate the importance of good weather.
I don't know if the sun is real anymore or just something I saw in a dream...


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## smile72 (Nov 24, 2017)

Jayro said:


> Here in America, if you are homeless, lazy, pregnant, clinically mentally ill, illegally residing in the country as an undocumented immigrant, or any of those combined, you are eligible for:
> 
> *Free Housing...*
> But it takes a _VERY_ long time, most waiting lists are well over a year or more to even be considered. Then, _IF_ you get lucky enough to be approved, you have *TONS* of restrictions for living there, like weekly inspections, limited visitors, assigned parking, quiet hours, and you can't modify ANYTHING that's part of the home/structure/building. You're basically a prisoner in your own "home". (Too chaotic and restrictive for me.)
> ...


As a person who has used America's welfare. I can promise you it's shit. If not worse.


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## Bimmel (Nov 25, 2017)

Nightwish said:


> I keep hearing of this mystical jobland where wages are livable and you don't get sacked for being sick. Not that I can personally complain as a software developer.
> There's also plenty of work that makes the world a worst place, TBH.


Not working is no solution either in my opinion. At least when we talk about Germany.
And yes, you don't get sacked for being sick for a longer time. Some "working" people use this system to have a good time, which is also kind of frustrating.

But my solution instead of giving up is this one: Educate myself further and search for a better job, where I might have the power to change such things.


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## guisadop (Nov 25, 2017)

I don't think foreigners should be eligible for social security at all.


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## Quantumcat (Nov 25, 2017)

guisadop said:


> I don't think foreigners should be eligible for social security at all.


I doubt they are. Where did you hear they were?


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## BullyWiiPlaza (Nov 25, 2017)

guisadop said:


> I don't think foreigners should be eligible for social security at all.


They are, they get get benefits like normal citizens but don't necessarily work here. It's ridiculous. Germany is the only country in the world running such a policy and they are loved and exploited for that. Oh, well. It can be considered smart for reputation's sake or very naive. I tend to go with the latter though. They are not responsible for fixing everyone else's problems.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Nov 25, 2017)

BullyWiiPlaza said:


> They are, they get get benefits like normal citizens but don't necessarily work here. It's ridiculous. Germany is the only country in the world running such a policy and they are loved and exploited for that. Oh, well. It can be considered smart for reputation's sake or very naive. I tend to go with the latter though. They are not responsible for fixing everyone else's problems.


They have to become citizens first, don't they? Or at least be under a certain age, show an interest in living in the country for an extended period of time, and pay taxes


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## Julizi (Nov 25, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> They have to become citizens first, don't they? Or at least be under a certain age, show an interest in living in the country for an extended period of time, and pay taxes


You will get a huge problem if the first sentence in your constitution is "The diginity of man is inviolable." and you refuse to pay the amount of money you consider as the minimum to live a life in dignity (which is the amount of all social benefits) to foreigners. Of course there are some exception (especially for EU citizens) but in general someone who never worked in Germany will get the same amount of money that a German would get.


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## Nightwish (Nov 25, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> At least you have good weather.



Not when global warming has more and more to say about it. But at least it's better than modern Nuclear Power, right? (it isn't)



Bimmel said:


> Not working is no solution either in my opinion.



Nihilism is not a solution, but it doesn't naturally affect people like this, it's an effect of feeling completely powerless in their lives for far too long.



Bimmel said:


> And yes, you don't get sacked for being sick for a longer time.



I doubt that, but even if German work is still more protected than in the rest of Europe, it's a matter of time. By design of ordoliberalism.



Bimmel said:


> Educate myself further and search for a better job, where I might have the power to change such things.



I was also young and naive once, but it's possible I'm just a cynical asshole now too. Good luck.


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## Julizi (Nov 25, 2017)

Nightwish said:


> I doubt that, but even if German work is still more protected than in the rest of Europe,


In private business you get you full wage for six weeks if you are sick (Entgeltfortzahlung im Krankheitsfall). And after that your health insurance will pay 70% of your wage theoretically infinitely (Krankengeld) but it will try to declare you as incapacitated for work after some time. Still sickness does not affect your employment relationship.
If you are an official (e. g. a teacher) you are generally irredeemable but you will also earn 100% of your wage for an infinite period of time if you are sick. German (or better: Prussian) officialdom is very expensive but since 1/3 of the German MPs are officials nobody wants to change that.


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## Bimmel (Nov 26, 2017)

Nightwish said:


> I was also young and naive once, but it's possible I'm just a cynical asshole now too. Good luck.


No, you are not. I know what you mean. And I don't think that I can change the whole thing, but maybe a little part of it. I know the feeling of being powerless - and I'm grateful for a chance to change it to a certain degree. Even if it's just my little world.

Thank you! :-)


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## kumikochan (Nov 26, 2017)

Just wanted to share this here.


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## Lord M (Nov 26, 2017)

Good.
In Italy (SHitaly) poors get no money.
Work: abour 12-14 hours per day, 6-7 days at week, 500-700 eur at month...

If you are lucky, you can reach 1000-1200 eurs, but a single-room shitty home cost about 500 eur at month...

I want Italy disappear from the Earth :/


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 26, 2017)

Lord M said:


> Good.
> In Italy (SHitaly) poors get no money.
> Work: abour 12-14 hours per day, 6-7 days at week, 500-700 eur at month...
> 
> ...


That's life, at least in Italy you have great food and coffee, come visit Germany and you will understand why I complain about that.
They ask 3€ for a cup of coffee that tastes like charcoal, and your average lunch is no much better than a Kebab.


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## Lord M (Nov 26, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> That's life, at least in Italy you have great food and coffee, come visit Germany and you will understand why I complain about that.
> They ask 3€ for a cup of coffee that tastes like charcoal, and your average lunch is no much better than a Kebab.


Well, you have any idea how cost the great "italian foods" nowdays??
I do not care about coffee, so no problem lol.

Italian foods cost much more here in Italy than in other countries as import foods. This is a shame.
A meal cost over 10 eur at Kg, mozzarella cost 8-9 eur at Kg. And costs continue to grow every years.
Bus and trains always less runs, and tickets price always grow (now it 1.20 eur for two closed places; the monthly ticket grow from 19 eur to 35 >_>)

Industries quickly kill made-in-Italy food, greedy vendors sold their "culture" for trash food and easy money.
Wait some other years and TRUE italian food will not exist anymore.

So, even if you get 1000 eurs, 500 go for a hovel (not house), you need 300 eur of food, bills of water and electricity are about 200-300 eur too. And you dont know how ridicolous taxes here are...


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 26, 2017)

Lord M said:


> Industries quickly kill made-in-Italy food, greedy vendors sold their "culture" for trash food and easy money.
> Wait some other years and TRUE italian food will not exist anymore.


That is a pity, because real Italian food tastes fucking great.


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## Lord M (Nov 26, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> That is a pity, because real Italian food tastes fucking great.


I know, best food in the world.
Italian food culture is great, but italians people NOT, this is the fact. They sold their identity to industries and "progress". Now everybody only looking for money, nothing more.
I hate italians because they vaunt to other countries about Italy greatness and foods, but then allow this culture to a bad end >_>
Few years ago mozzarella cost 5-6 eur at Kg, now is close to 10 eur at kg...
Prices grow up every years and quality go down...

Well, at least a true italian still can do a great dish with a pack of spaghetti, tomato and cheese 
(Italian cheese price too grew up madly in last years... At least, you can do a delicious dish even with a cheap cheese. The most important thing are tomato quality, but a true italian can see which tomato is better)


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## TotalInsanity4 (Nov 26, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> That's life, at least in Italy you have great food and coffee, come visit Germany and you will understand why I complain about that.
> They ask 3€ for a cup of coffee that tastes like charcoal, and your average lunch is no much better than a Kebab.


"That's life" what thE HELL


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 26, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> "That's life" what thE HELL


Yeah, that's life as far as I am concerned (because I don't live in Italy perhaps).
I wouldn't oppose someone trying to improve that, but it is not my business. Capisci?
Man, I am too lazy to set straight my life, no way I would go around talking big about changing things somewhere else.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Nov 26, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> Yeah, that's life as far as I am concerned (because I don't live in Italy perhaps).
> I wouldn't oppose someone trying to improve that, but it is not my business. Capisci?
> Man, I am too lazy to set straight my life, no way I would go around talking big about changing things somewhere else.


Working 12 hour days and getting 500 Euros a month is not "life," it's barely better than slavery. Especially if you live in a country that has a high cost of living


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 26, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Working 12 hour days and getting 500 Euros a month is not "life," it's barely better than slavery. Especially if you live in a country that has a high cost of living


I guess you know what the idiom "that's life" means. It actually is unavoidable.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Nov 26, 2017)

sarkwalvein said:


> I guess you know what the idiom "that's life" means. It actually is unavoidable.


It's really not, or at least it shouldn't be. It definitely isn't in Germany, which you kind of tastelessly quipped about being on the bad end of the deal because you don't like the coffee


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## kumikochan (Nov 26, 2017)

Lord M said:


> I know, best food in the world.
> Italian food culture is great, but italians people NOT, this is the fact. They sold their identity to industries and "progress". Now everybody only looking for money, nothing more.
> I hate italians because they vaunt to other countries about Italy greatness and foods, but then allow this culture to a bad end >_>
> Few years ago mozzarella cost 5-6 eur at Kg, now is close to 10 eur at kg...
> ...


Well according to the news paper around 200 belgians bought houses for 1 euro a piece because the mayor wants the town to live up again. So that is cheaper then mozzarella xp


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## coolcono (Nov 26, 2017)

Youkai said:


> Hey there,
> I am slightly pissed again as I just read that here in Germany the "Hartz4" money will be highered again and I really feel like its not worth to Work anymore ... would like to know what you think about it.
> 
> Imagine, when you life in Germany and do not work you get :
> ...


Was denken Sie ueber die Fluchtlings? Ich habe eine bisshen Deutsche Radio gehort and dieses Problem war sehr gross.


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## kumikochan (Nov 26, 2017)

coolcono said:


> Was denken Sie ueber die Fluchtlings? Ich habe eine bisshen Deutsche Radio gehort and dieses Problem war sehr gross.


what problem is big ? Plus rules say english only


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## coolcono (Nov 26, 2017)

How is the refugee crisis going? I was listening to some German radio and heard it was a big problem.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Nov 26, 2017)

coolcono said:


> How is the refugee crisis going? I was listening to some German radio and heard it was a big problem.


From what I understand it really depends on who you ask and what their political views are. They are still oversaturated last I heard though


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## sarkwalvein (Nov 26, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> It's really not, or at least it shouldn't be. It definitely isn't in Germany, which you kind of tastelessly quipped about being on the bad end of the deal because you don't like the coffee


What do you mean it is not unavoidable?
Are you implying Lord M does it because he likes it, he likes to suffer?
Are you implying he could actually easily do something else? That he by himself could change how things work?
I think it is naive to state "it shouldn't be like that so, erm.. so.." so what?, it is! you have to live with it or do whatever is in your power to live better.

And regarding coffee, coffee is serious business for me, I moved to Germany to avoid being worked like a slave, but I still miss coffee and good food (good beef in my case), why do you think that is tasteless?

PS: one could say nice things and give people false hope, or just be straight about it: being worked like a slave in many places in the world is unavoidable, it is out of reach as an individual to change that, so yes "That's life".


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## Youkai (Nov 27, 2017)

coolcono said:


> How is the refugee crisis going? I was listening to some German radio and heard it was a big problem.



Depends on where you live actually ...

The ones who have the biggest Problem with the Refugees are in East Germany ... funny though that there are hardly any refugees in east Germany XD

It is definietly frustrating to know that there is no money for schools and stuff but we spend billions of money to give these people food and shelter but well ... we would want help too if something happened.
The biggest Problem is that the cultures are very different plus there are allways crimes in the news that were done by "refugees"  even if it is just one out of several million it makes them all look bad.


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## Lord M (Nov 27, 2017)

So in Germany coffee cost 3 eur, but the pay is 1400 eur
In Italy coffee cost 0,80 eur, but the pay is around 400-600 eur (only lucky people can get 1000 or 1200 eur, but very few, and you must work as slave, around 12-14 hours per day, 6-7/8 days at week) A restaurant wanted me EVERY day, 14 hours per day, for 1000 eur at month. So if i did this job, when i can live my life? No free day...

anyway this shitty country try, every year, to force people work something like 8/7 days at week LOL


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## Nightwish (Nov 27, 2017)

Julizi said:


> Still sickness does not affect your employment relationship.



I suppose I should have been clearer. We have short time employment contracts (that should be used solely for trials, but there's plenty of ways around it) for a large segment of workers. They might not be literally sacked for "whatever", but the contracts can just not be renewed for no reason forcing an precarious cycle for many. For actual work contracts, there's an 8 day per year penalty, which is pretty much nothing too, and you might not want to fight for it if you want another job at some point.

That barely no one gets how this affects productivity, innovation, loyalty, initiative, output demand and so on is beyond me.


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## MartinDocNewland (Nov 27, 2017)

xpoverzion said:


> That's because Americans are slaves for Israel.  Maybe you should start questioning why it is that your government spends trillions upon trillions of tax dollars on protecting Israel in the Middle East???  Meanwhile, American infrastructure, healthcare, education, etc is falling apart.  Most wealthy western countries that are not slaves and mercenary armies for Israel, take care of their citizens as is the case with Germany.  You should see how easy life is in Australia.  I lived there for a year and someone who is packing groceries at the grocery store can afford a home, a car, vacation time, healthcare, education, etc..  Most of the western world has pity for Americans for being brainwashed slaves for a foreign cause.  Until America breaks away from the money pit, and slave masters called Israel, you will continue to see your standard of living go down the drain, and for life to get harder and harder.  It's that simple.



I think you been brainwashed into thinking everyone takes pity on Americans, No we just laugh at them lol No one likes Americans outside of the USA. Its that simple


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## pasc (Nov 27, 2017)

Everywhere can  be a paradise for slackers if you know how I supposed.

While it is true that some of the money released in germany can be best described as questionable, tehat still begs one major question:

What kind of personality is "content" with "living" like this ?

PS:
Germany is regarded as "paradise for medicine students" and people from the USA sometimes move over, because there is no tuition/study fee.
In some way it is "good", but then again, where there's light there is also shadow....


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