# federal judge ruled DACA unlawful,



## Valwinz (Jul 17, 2021)

some good news from Texas lets see how it goes
Breaking News: A federal judge in Texas ruled DACA unlawful, saying that Barack Obama exceeded his authority when he created the program by executive order. The program has shielded hundreds of thousands of undocumented young adults from deportation. https://t.co/fF4TqW8kB1— The New York Times (@nytimes) July 16, 2021


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## jimbo13 (Jul 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> some good news from Texas lets see how it goes
> https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1416149486980710401



As much as I'd like to blame American politicians I think the real blame here lies with Princess Diana's campaign against landmines, no tool has been proven more effective at securing a border.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Jul 17, 2021)

NOOOO! 
KEEP THEM! KEEP THEM! 
DON'T SEND SUDACAS TO MEXICO!


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## Exidous (Jul 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> As much as I'd like to blame American politicians I think the real blame here lies with Princess Diana's campaign against landmines.


How _convenient_ for you to blame someone who is already dead. WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?


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## Jayro (Jul 17, 2021)

This isn't good news at all, unless you're a racist.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 17, 2021)

Jayro said:


> This isn't good news at all, unless you're a racist.



 This fantastic news for people that want regulated and properly limited immigration that our infrastructure and economy can sustain.

Mexican is not a race.


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## Valwinz (Jul 17, 2021)

Jayro said:


> This isn't good news at all, unless you're a racist.


The laws of a nation been respected seems like good news to me


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## Xzi (Jul 17, 2021)

Just another racist throwing a toddler tantrum over his fading relevancy in the modern world, nothing to see here.  This is why we always wait for an actual adult to review anything/everything that comes out of Texas before taking it seriously.


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## Valwinz (Jul 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Just another racist throwing a toddler tantrum over his fading relevancy in the modern world, nothing to see here.  This is why we always wait for an actual adult to review anything/everything that comes out of Texas before taking it seriously.


Everyone i don't like is racist


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## Xzi (Jul 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Everyone i don't like is racist


I mean this is a Texas Republican we're talking about here, so odds are he's not only a racist piece of shit, he's also open and proud about it (seeing plenty of that in this thread too).


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## Valwinz (Jul 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I mean this is a Texas Republican we're talking about here, so odds are he's not only a racist piece of shit, he's also open and proud about it (seeing plenty of that in this thread too).


Yes i love secure borders


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## Xzi (Jul 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Yes i love secure borders


Nah you love denying opportunities and basic human rights to minorities.  Don't be a bitch about it, just own it like your buddy Jimbo.


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## Valwinz (Jul 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nah you love denying opportunities and basic human rights to minorities.  Don't be a bitch about it, just own it like your buddy Jimbo.


there is plenty of other nations in the planet


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 17, 2021)

I'm a bit conflicted about the entire DACA program. These kids weren't in control when their lawbreaking parents or coyotes brought them into the country. However, we need law and order and people need to immigrate legally or get the fuck out. I believe that not deporting the kids already in the program and then ending the program for any future illegals was the right move. If you want to immigrate there are rules and procedures.

Also I see the normal leftist idiots claiming this is racist. @jimbo13 is correct though, this has nothing to do with the race that these kids or kids that have turned into adults are. Mexico is a country. Mexicans can be any race or ethnicity. It's just stupid and lazy to claim these laws, decisions and procedures are racist. 

I do know what it's really about though. Votes. Democrats want control and they need as many votes as they can possibly muster up and since they don't mind lying, cheating, stealing and breaking the law these illegals provide much needed votes for them.


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## Xzi (Jul 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> there is plenty of other nations in the planet


And the US has fucked with damn near all of 'em in the span of just a couple hundred years.  Your point being?


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## Jayro (Jul 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> And the US has fucked with damn near all of 'em in the span of just a couple hundred years.  Your point being?


There's no point in arguing with a racist. They're a special kind of retarded that only other racists understand.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> there is plenty of other nations in the planet


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## spinal_cord (Jul 17, 2021)

As an outsider, I find it interesting that a country founded on brining in immigrants from all over the world, offering them a better life etc. are so upset when immigrants from all over the world try to go there to get a better life.

99% (or more) of Americans are immigrants, not only that, they seem incredibly proud that their grand parents / great grandparents  come from various other countries, keeping their heritage alive by calling themselves Italian-American or Irish-American etc. but get all upset if the same opportunities  that were given to their great grandparents are offered to the current generation.

I don't understand it.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 17, 2021)

spinal_cord said:


> As an outsider, I find it interesting that a country founded on bringing in immigrants from all over the world, offering them a better life etc. are so upset when immigrants from all over the world try to go there to get a better life.
> 
> 99% (or more) of Americans are immigrants, not only that, they seem incredibly proud that their grand parents / great grandparents  come from various other countries, keeping their heritage alive by calling themselves Italian-American or Irish-American etc. but get all upset if the same opportunities  that were given to their great grandparents are offered to the current generation.
> 
> I don't understand it.



The UK was founded on God anointing a monarch to rule over and subjugate you, is that what you want till the end up of time?

Illegal Aliens invading from the south aren't immigrants, immigrants enter legally which there are numerous ways to do so. We take plenty.  Mexicans entering the country illegally from the South dump their kids to exploit welfare and entitlements, amongst numerous other problems they cause.

Can I enter the UK illegally with no criminal back ground check?

We have this odd concept of Labor laws in this country too.  Flooding our markets with cheap off the books labor undermines that. This eliminates entry level jobs and lowers wages because that's what happens when you provide endless low cost labor that expatriates said funds back to Mexico where the cost of living is less.

Infrastructure has a capacity, much like Disney Land in July *WERE FULL.  *Mexico has plenty of space for it's citizens and if you feel they need a great white savior to clean up there problems lecture Canada.

Canada has NO birth right citizenship and I don't see them rolling out the welcome mat despite all that space up there with only 40 million people in a country twice the size of the U.S.

If I want to immigrate to Canada they require a $50,000 bond paid to the government just to make sure I am paying my way and not being a burden to their citizens.  And unless I am an engineer, doctor or something exceptional that benefits them the answer is no.

You can't even enter Canada with a DUI, here we have Liberal cities releasing multi-time felons on to our streets so federal immigration can't deport them.

If Enforcing our immigration laws and making sure we have stable infrastructure and economy is "Racist" it's time to invade Canada because they are working a fourth Reich up North.


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## Xzi (Jul 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> We have this odd concept of Labor laws in this country too. Flooding our markets with cheap off the books labor undermines that.


TFW you realize flooding the market with cheap (undocumented) labor is exactly what all our corporations want, and the reason they want to keep our immigration system broken.  Enacting a path to citizenship would ensure they have to pay _all_ workers at minimum wage or better, ending corporations' ability to exploit desperation for extra profit.


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## Valwinz (Jul 17, 2021)

spinal_cord said:


> As an outsider, I find it interesting that a country founded on brining in immigrants from all over the world, offering them a better life etc. are so upset when immigrants from all over the world try to go there to get a better life.
> 
> 99% (or more) of Americans are immigrants, not only that, they seem incredibly proud that their grand parents / great grandparents  come from various other countries, keeping their heritage alive by calling themselves Italian-American or Irish-American etc. but get all upset if the same opportunities  that were given to their great grandparents are offered to the current generation.
> 
> I don't understand it.


No issue with doing LEGAL immigration but if say people are coming here breaking the law them it seems they don't respect say national laws.


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## wartutor (Jul 17, 2021)

I like how this thread went straight to the dems way of "if you dont think like me you must be racist." thinking. I myself have no problem with any race getting into or leaving this country but I do have a problem with breaking laws...laws are there for a reason and if we can pick and choose what ones we follow why didn't I get the memo. There is alot of things I would love to do if there was no consequences. If the laws are outdated change them, update them, do what needs to be done but get it done right instead of just ignoring laws. Wait....dems are preaty good at ignoring laws with all the looting, burning, and killing going on in their cities.


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 18, 2021)

spinal_cord said:


> As an outsider, I find it interesting that a country founded on brining in immigrants from all over the world, offering them a better life etc. are so upset when immigrants from all over the world try to go there to get a better life.
> 
> 99% (or more) of Americans are immigrants, not only that, they seem incredibly proud that their grand parents / great grandparents  come from various other countries, keeping their heritage alive by calling themselves Italian-American or Irish-American etc. but get all upset if the same opportunities  that were given to their great grandparents are offered to the current generation.
> 
> I don't understand it.



You're failing to see the argument. There's legal and illegal ways to immigrate into the USA. People who respect the law don't mind immigrants they just want them to come into the country via legal means. There were rules and stipulations for all of the generations of people that came before us too. Having open borders is a stupid idea and if you want to come to the USA for a better life then do it legally. That's all we ask. No one is saying that immigrants are a bad thing ... we're saying that illegally entering the country, well, is illegal ...


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## The Catboy (Jul 18, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> You're failing to see the argument. There's legal and illegal ways to immigrate into the USA. People who respect the law don't mind immigrants they just want them to come into the country via legal means. There were rules and stipulations for all of the generations of people that came before us too. Having open borders is a stupid idea and if you want to come to the USA for a better life then do it legally. That's all we ask. No one is saying that immigrants are a bad thing ... we're saying that illegally entering the country, well, is illegal ...


It's weird how it wasn't an issue when European were coming to the country and it only became an issue when people with darker skin started wanting to come here.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)




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## jimbo13 (Jul 18, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> It's weird how it wasn't an issue when European were coming to the country and it only became an issue when people with darker skin started wanting to come here.



Bullshit, Discrimination against Irish & Italian immigrants was rampant during the time period.  Read a fucking history book you aspiring professional victim.

The issue with illegal aliens from Mexico is the vast numbers pouring in is well beyond what our infrastructure and economy can sustain without it being a burden to Americans, people shouldn't have to live in a state of perpetual economic and cultural displacement.

This is why we have a quota'ed orderly legal immigration system with a line, Illegal Alien Mexicans are walking up to the cashier cutting everyone who waited their turn and going "MEH SKIN COLUR" because the cashier told them to fucking wait their turn.


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Bullshit, Discrimination against Irish & Italian immigrants was rampant during the time period.


Lilith was talking about modern Republicans, you fucking idiot.  And they're spot on.



jimbo13 said:


> The issue with illegal aliens from Mexico is the vast numbers pouring in is well beyond what our infrastructure and economy can sustain without it being a burden to Americans, people shouldn't have to live in a state of perpetual economic and cultural displacement.


Dude fast food corporations started handing out raises and medical benefits the moment everybody started quitting those jobs en masse.  It's not immigrants "economically displacing" us, and culturally we've been a melting pot since before you or I were born.  Fucking tell me you don't eat Mexican food and/or Chinese food so I can point and laugh in your face.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> View attachment 270231



A smart person would realize invoking the plight of the Native Americans is not an argument in _favor_ of unregulated open border invasion.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Lilith was talking about modern Republicans, you fucking idiot.  And they're spot on.
> 
> 
> Dude fast food corporations started handing out raises and medical benefits the moment everybody started quitting those jobs en masse.  It's not immigrants "economically displacing" us, and culturally we've been a melting pot since before you or I were born.  Fucking tell me you don't eat Mexican food and/or Chinese food so I can point and laugh in your face.




fast food is not a career, i hate doing customer service, you barely get paid, treated like shit,  literally its for teenagers to gain work ethic and give them work experience, not for 40 year old Barbara to sit there and work 80 hours

fast food is unskilled labor, i don't eat alot of it because i get real sick of the dipshits workers who will consistently fuck up a $3 order and want $15  and hour and act like dogshit

*if you don't want minimum  wages dont have minimum skills*


why cant the united states just actually build a wall at the border, history shows walls are effective means of population control

people need to study economics more than politics, while certain ideas sounds good on paper, they dont scale to a population of 400 million different persons


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## spotanjo3 (Jul 18, 2021)

Indeed...Mexico really owns America before white men does. My country love you, Mexico.


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## SG854 (Jul 18, 2021)

spotanjo3 said:


> Indeed...Mexico really owns America before white men does. My country love you, Mexico.


Animals were here first till humans came and destroyed their land and extinct their species. Where are the rights of animals?


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## spotanjo3 (Jul 18, 2021)

SG854 said:


> Animals were here first till humans came and destroyed their land and extinct their species. Where are the rights of animals?



I know but I am talking about white men took over America's land from Mexican Indian a long time ago.


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> fast food is not a career, i hate doing customer service, you barely get paid, treated like shit, literally its for teenagers to gain work ethic and give them work experience, not for 40 year old Barbara to sit there and work 80 hours


Nobody _wants_ to work fast food as a career, that's correct, but statistically there are gonna be a whole lot of people that end up working it as a career anyway.  More than 75% of jobs in the US are service industry positions, and fast food is unfortunately an essential industry in the US.



aadz93 said:


> fast food is unskilled labor, i don't eat alot of it because i get real sick of the dipshits workers who will consistently fuck up a $3 order and want $15 and hour and act like dogshit


You already acknowledged that these jobs are shitty and you wouldn't work them yourself.  So it doesn't matter that you consider fast food "unskilled" labor.  If demand for workers far outstrips the supply, which is what's currently happening in the US, these corporations have no choice but to raise wages and provide other incentives.  Nobody wants to work 40 hours a week and then go home to a cardboard box, still broke as a joke.



aadz93 said:


> *if you don't want minimum wages dont have minimum skills*


Better idea: just make minimum wage a living wage so that taxpayers don't have to keep subsidizing poverty wages through welfare and food stamps.  Corporations are fucking us both coming and going as things stand now.



aadz93 said:


> why cant the united states just actually build a wall at the border, history shows walls are effective means of population control


Because it's a fucking wall in the desert.  It took four years to build like ten miles of it, and that's already falling apart.  I can think of a million better vanity projects to waste billions of dollars on.  Also: Mexico is not our enemy.



aadz93 said:


> people need to study economics more than politics, while certain ideas sounds good on paper, they dont scale to a population of 400 million different persons


Absolute nonsense.  Corporations' sudden willingness to increase wages and provide more benefits _now_ shows that they had the means to do it all along, and with almost no real effect on their bottom line.  Demand better from your employers and everybody else's, because they will exploit you in every possible way if given half the chance.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nobody _wants_ to work fast food as a career, that's correct, but statistically there are gonna be a whole lot of people that end up working it as a career anyway.  More than 75% of jobs in the US are service industry positions, and fast food is unfortunately an essential industry in the US.
> 
> 
> You already acknowledged that these jobs are shitty and you wouldn't work them yourself.  So it doesn't matter that you consider fast food "unskilled" labor.  If demand for workers far outstrips the supply, which is what's currently happening in the US, these corporations have no choice but to raise wages and provide other incentives.  Nobody wants to work 40 hours a week and then go home to a cardboard box, still broke as a joke.
> ...





the russians built the berlin wall, the chinese have the great wall, the north koreans manage to keep people out and in, they work


better idea, apply yourself, goto college, get a degree gain skill(s) that people want to pay large sums of cash for

sitting there blaming everyone else, while putting no effort on your part, people rather sit and be spoon fed, and have their hair tussled, instead of taking responsibility, people wanna wake up  tomorrow with a net worth of 10 million dollars, i can understand in developing nations that there are difficulties,


no but you can't just tell people they have to through a legal process, then just let people walk across the desert without any notice they even entered

just watched this the other day


the US isn't as bad as people always make it to be, it has issues, but one could say they are "rich people issues"

~37 min in the video


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> the russians built the *berlin wall*


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"  Truly, the only thing any outdoor wall is good for is being torn down.  That's like the one time you'll ever hear me quote Reagan in a positive context, so enjoy it.



aadz93 said:


> the chinese have the *great wall*


They do...and it's mostly a tourist attraction in 21st century.  Also, the contractors that the US government was hiring weren't exactly capable of matching that kind of craftsmanship.  The US border wall is both ugly and all but completely non-functional.



aadz93 said:


> better idea, apply yourself, goto college, get a degree gain skill(s) that people want to pay large sums of cash for


Dude I saw a posting just the other day for a job paying $37K and asking for a Master's degree.  Corporate dick-swinging isn't limited to just blue-collar or low-education work.  They push until they get a whole lot of push back.  That's just how it works.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"  Truly, the only thing any outdoor wall is good for is being torn down.  That's like the one time you'll ever hear me quote Reagan in a positive context, so enjoy it.
> 
> 
> They do...and it's mostly a tourist attraction in 21st century.  Also, the contractors that the US government was hiring weren't exactly capable of matching that kind of craftsmanship.  The US border wall is both ugly and all but completely non-functional.
> ...



a M.D in what?

sound like a useless degree like "general Studies"

if i get a master in physics or computer science/ engineering, i can make 75 grand  a year by the time I graduate, over 100 grand a year once you get in the workforce, also other countries would pay me too


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> a M.D in what?
> 
> sound like a useless degree like "general Studies"


It couldn't possibly matter less, offering $37K for a job that requires even a bachelor's is insulting.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It couldn't possibly matter less, offering $37K for a job that requires even a bachelor's is insulting.



what was the job, and sounds like a cheap or shitty employer


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> what was the job, and sounds like a cheap or shitty employer


As they all are if you let them walk all over you.  Fast food workers getting paid more does not mean you have to get paid less, so there's no good reason to object to a living wage for minimum wage.  Additionally, the economy can only be strengthened by giving the middle and lower class more spending power.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> As they all are if you let them walk all over you.  Fast food workers getting paid more does not mean you have to get paid less, so there's no good reason to object to a living wage for minimum wage.  Additionally, the economy can only be strengthened by giving the middle and lower class more spending power.









Spoiler: guess how its done?



money, investment,time


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> money, investment,time


The hell is this supposed to mean?  If you want people to save money, you have to pay them more than the cost of necessities alone.  If you pay them less than the cost of necessities, they have to go on welfare or food stamps, and the taxpayers foot the bill for cheap, shitty employers paying poverty wages.  This isn't that complicated.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> The hell is this supposed to mean?  If you want people to save money, you have to pay them more than the cost of necessities alone.  If you pay them less than the cost of necessities, they have to go on welfare or food stamps, and the taxpayers foot the bill for cheap, shitty employers paying poverty wages.  This isn't that complicated.




you want to make more money? get vocation training, associates degree, college doesnt mean you have to go 4 -8 years to make decent money, or just open a (successful) business

sit and complain, again you have the ability, you're refusing it, again wanna wake up tomorrow with 10mil


you can always move to a place with a better standard of living suited to you, for me Switzerland and canadia are better than the united states, for computer engineering/science, amongst a few others...



everyone has to start from somewhere


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## Xzi (Jul 18, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> you want to make more money?


Are you really incapable of understanding concepts beyond the self?  No, this isn't about how much money I make personally.  This is about basic human dignity and creating a strong, sustainable economy that benefits more than just the ruling class (wealthy people).  A system that drives people to poverty and homelessness cannot also be a system that criminalizes those things.



aadz93 said:


> you can always move to a place with a better standard of living suited to you, for me Switzerland and canadia are better than the united states, for computer engineering/science, amongst a few others...


Moving to a different country itself takes a lot of years of prep work and a lot of money.  Especially moving overseas.  It's also not a solution for people who just want to see their home country live up to its potential.


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## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 18, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Are you really incapable of understanding concepts beyond the self?  No, this isn't about how much money I make personally.  This is about basic human dignity and creating a strong, sustainable economy that benefits more than just the ruling class (wealthy people).  A system that drives people to poverty and homelessness cannot also be a system that criminalizes those things.
> 
> 
> Moving to a different country itself takes a lot of years of prep work and a lot of money.  Especially moving overseas.  It's also not a solution for people who just want to see their home country live up to its potential.




eh i want to see the world, i am a dual national anyways, so if the usa went to shit, europe i go


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## Deleted member 514389 (Jul 19, 2021)

Being homeless, deported etc. sucks.
If you think anyone deserves that, you're awful.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

notrea11y said:


> Being homeless, deported etc. sucks.
> If you think anyone deserves that, you're awful.



Being a criminal has consequences, they knew what those consequences are.


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

notrea11y said:


> Being homeless, deported etc. sucks.
> If you think anyone deserves that, you're awful.





jimbo13 said:


> Being a criminal has consequences, they knew what those consequences are.


Fucking troglodyte, man.  The worst part is that you could've picked literally any issue.

"If you think children deserve to starve to death, you're awful."
Jimbo: "yep here I am."


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## Dinomite (Jul 19, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> It's weird how it wasn't an issue when European were coming to the country and it only became an issue when people with darker skin started wanting to come here.


No one said they have an issue with people of dark skin. You seem to be making a racial assumption there buddy, be better. There are plenty of people from all over the world who have migrated to the USA legally, the issue is with people who cross the border illegally.


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## Valwinz (Jul 19, 2021)

notrea11y said:


> Being homeless, deported etc. sucks.
> If you think anyone deserves that, you're awful.


you have a house let them stay in it


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## The Catboy (Jul 19, 2021)

Dinomite said:


> No one said they have an issue with people of dark skin. You seem to be making a racial assumption there buddy, be better. There are plenty of people from all over the world who have migrated to the USA legally, the issue is with people who cross the border illegally.


The point was more or less that no one had an issue with “legality” and the process was far simpler to become “legal” when it was people from Europe. It only suddenly became an issue when it was people trying to come to America from the Central and South America, Asia, and even Southern parts of Europe. Anti-immigration laws have always had a long and racist history that only seem to be created to focus on blocking very specific groups of people, specifically people of groups not deemed “White.” Anti-immigration laws have always had a long history in being racially motivated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...legal-border-crossing-usa-mexico-section-1325
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/the-birth-of-illegal-immigration


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## Xzi (Jul 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> you have a house let them stay in it


There we go: confirmation that Republicans don't care about fixing any of the US' problems so long as they can blame them on the other side somehow.  Creeping oligarchy?  Clearly the fault of anybody advocating for better living/working conditions.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The point was more or less that no one had an issue with “legality” and the process was far simpler to become “legal” when it was people from Europe. It only suddenly became an issue when it was people trying to come to America from the Central and South America, Asia, and even Southern parts of Europe. Anti-immigration laws have always had a long and racist history that only seem to be created to focus on blocking very specific groups of people, specifically people of groups not deemed “White.” Anti-immigration laws have always had a long history in being racially motivated.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...legal-border-crossing-usa-mexico-section-1325
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/the-birth-of-illegal-immigration



The process was simpler when we didn't have 400 million people and infrastructure that is at capacity.  The United States has some of the most generous easy immigration laws in the world, far to easy.

Most countries require you to learn the language and culturally acclimate, they don't tolerate influx of cheap labor damaging their economies, causing housing shortages and over crowding their communities.   Mainly because they don't have a culture of insolent self hating brats whose parents didn't love them enough to smack them upside the head when they spewed stupid shit.


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## Valwinz (Jul 19, 2021)

They have to go bACK!!!!


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> They have to go bACK!!!!


Why should they have to go back?


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## Seliph (Jul 19, 2021)

Not like Obama was ever great with immigration seeing as how he created the concentration camp infrastructure that caged thousands of people during his administration and every administration since.

DACA was good, but not a real solution. This country could do much better towards immigrants and that starts with fixing our garbage foreign (and to a lesser extent domestic) policy which is the primary cause for influxes of immigration in the first place.

Regardless, this will hurt so many people including friends I know who live their lives fearing deportation every day and see vans steal their neighbors away every few months. This sucks but is not surprising in the least bit. This does nothing but cause confusion and hurt and loss, this is not a solution at all for any sort of immigration-related problems. Granted this is not a problem for undocumented children who already live here, but it's still always scary to see and only serves to heighten the fears that immigrants living in this country already face, especially if this ruling is allowed to go further.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Why should they have to go back?



Same reason a decent checker will tell you to fuck off and go back to the line when you jump queue.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Same reason a decent checker will tell you to fuck off and go back to the line when you jump queue.


There's a major difference. A line-jumper is negatively affecting the people behind them. Who is being negatively affected by allowing people who arrived here as children stay in the only country they know?


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## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There's a major difference. A line-jumper is negatively affecting the people behind them. Who is being negatively affected by allowing people who arrived here as children stay in the only country they know?



Same people, same line that have to wait behind that person while they are trying to use WIC checks and have the wrong items because they didn't learn the language.


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## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Same people, same line that have to wait behind that person while they are trying to use WIC checks and have the wrong items because they didn't learn the language.


What are you talking about? DACA is about people who are already in the United States and have been for many years. For a lot of DACA recipients, they've been here practically their entire lives.

Is the line you're bringing up metaphorical, or are you talking about a literal line that apparently has nothing figuratively nor literally to do with DACA?


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> What are you talking about? DACA is about people who are already in the United States and have been for many years. For a lot of DACA recipients, they've been here practically their entire lives.
> 
> Is the line you're bringing up metaphorical, or are you talking about a literal line that apparently has nothing figuratively nor literally to do with DACA?



Literal line, if it gets me out of the grocery store 10 minutes quicker and it will; use catapults to send them back imo.

The infrastructure and economy of a society has a capacity, that capacity and the pace at which it expands has been exceeded by illegal immigration, Mexico has a functional government and people fully capable of taking care of their citizens.  If they choose not to that is not my problem, we have 400 million or so people under served & under represented already.


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 19, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> The point was more or less that no one had an issue with “legality” and the process was far simpler to become “legal” when it was people from Europe. It only suddenly became an issue when it was people trying to come to America from the Central and South America, Asia, and even Southern parts of Europe. Anti-immigration laws have always had a long and racist history that only seem to be created to focus on blocking very specific groups of people, specifically people of groups not deemed “White.” Anti-immigration laws have always had a long history in being racially motivated.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...legal-border-crossing-usa-mexico-section-1325
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/the-birth-of-illegal-immigration




what about ellis island? italians, eastern europeans, etc faced discrimination aswell


----------



## ChronoTrig (Jul 19, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> what about ellis island? italians, eastern europeans, etc faced discrimination aswell


A lot of people crossing through Ellis Island also were even made to change their last name due to the ignorance of people not being able to pronounce their names (also some did it as well so they wouldn't be different than other's and the name would be easier to pronounce / they wouldn't have any issues). I'd say that's pretty discriminatory.


----------



## The Catboy (Jul 19, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> what about ellis island? italians, eastern europeans, etc faced discrimination aswell


I mentioned them because those are groups of people who many didn’t (and some still don’t,) considered White due to their skin color being slightly different different compared the paler “White” from Northern/Central Europeans and were actually discriminated against. This included in the references I had posted.


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 19, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I mentioned them because those are groups of people who many didn’t (and some still don’t,) considered White due to their skin color being slightly different different compared the paler “White” from Northern/Central Europeans and were actually discriminated against. This included in the references I had posted.



Back then they weren't "white" a stereotypical "white American" is one who has English or western European roots


A Greaser and a slav, after ww 1&2 Krauts aren't the darkest skinned people, they may tan  well, but they come from the "Caucasus mountains"


----------



## The Catboy (Jul 19, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> Back then they weren't "white" a stereotypical "white American" is one who has English or western European roots
> 
> 
> A Greaser and a slav, after ww 1&2 Krauts aren't the darkest skinned people, they may tan  well, but they come from the "Caucasus mountains"


I think my post was a bit off because “White” is a subjective term and sometimes the discrimination is based on skin and sometimes locations. Irish people used to not be considered “White,” despite being ghostly white. But typically, it’s people who’s skin tone is slightly darker than your average Northern European who is more commonly discriminated against.


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 19, 2021)

A white African immigrant (yeah he was born and lived in Africa), had to move to china before being able to move to the USA


Should watch that video, as he has experienced actual racism


I agree with him, people nowadays just use racism to shut down an argument, or with anyone who thinks different from them

There's a difference between prejudice, racist, and oppression/persecution

Then there is being offened and having your feelings hurt


I'd rather have my feelings hurt, than have a tire forcibly shove around my neck, filled with gasoline, then lit on fire for you to sit and burn to death (it's called "necklacing" there), and nobody does anything about it


Should watch that full video, he just says it how it is


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jul 19, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I do know what it's really about though. Votes. Democrats want control and they need as many votes as they can possibly muster up and since they don't mind lying, cheating, stealing and breaking the law these illegals provide much needed votes for them.



Do I honestly need to post videos for you of Republicans lying, cheating, stealing, and breaking the law? It's fine to have an opinion, but holy fuck. Hypocrite much? If you're going to criticize one side or the other, at least try to not look like a moron in the process.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 19, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I do know what it's really about though. Votes. Democrats want control and they need as many votes as they can possibly muster up and since they don't mind lying, cheating, stealing and breaking the law these illegals provide much needed votes for them.



DACA doesn't offer a pathway to citizenship, so no votes there.
Only one of the political parties is perpetuating a big lie about widespread voter fraud in an attempt to overturn a democratic election.
Only one of the political parties is trying to create unnecessary and disproportionate burdens on voting in an attempt to steal elections by making them less democratic.
Boy, that backfired on you, huh?


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Only one of the political parties is perpetuating a big lie about widespread voter fraud in an attempt to overturn a democratic election.


Not only that, only one of them also supported a insurrection and trying to claim it was a peaceful protest. Evidence doesn't get more damning when people are actively searching for Nancy Pelosi and shouting"kill mike pence"



and also having multiple extremist groups who had body armor, gas, which was thrown at the police, and a lot of other problems during January 6th


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 19, 2021)

Why do I feel as if we'll  see more American Immigrants come to Canada england and Europe etc in the future


----------



## JaNDeRPeiCH (Jul 19, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> NOOOO!
> KEEP THEM! KEEP THEM!
> DON'T SEND SUDACAS TO MEXICO!



Better send them to their respect nations, we dont want those people all crammed in the mexican prisons,Because the covid its very agressive with the variant delta. México have huge healthy problems and we are dealing very bad to get the vaccines,Thanks to our shitty president.


----------



## orangy57 (Jul 19, 2021)

no balls just open the borders so that immigrants won't overstay their visas out of fear of not being able to return


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 20, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> Why do I feel as if we'll  see more American Immigrants come to Canada England and Europe etc in the future



It is very difficult to immigrate to Canada, they require you to learn both French & English and all the traditional civic instruction we used to mandate.  You must be financially solvent and a benefit, not a detractor to the Canadian economy.

They only have 40 million people in Canada and do not allow just anyone to waltz in, this is why they can afford nice things like universal healthcare.  They don't tolerate parasitic entities displacing their citizens in any aspect.

I am fortunate to be married to a Canadian I live on the border, When I cross in to Canada I bring my marriage license and wife because it's much faster. As a country that puts the welfare of it's citizens over foreigners the background check they do is very time consuming and extensive as it should be.


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Jul 20, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> It is very difficult to immigrate to Canada, they require you to learn both French & English and all the traditional civic instruction we used to mandate.  You must be financially solvent and a benefit, not a detractor to the Canadian economy.
> 
> They only have 40 million people in Canada and do not allow just anyone to waltz in, this is why they can afford nice things like universal healthcare.  They don't tolerate parasitic entities displacing their citizens in any aspect.
> 
> I am fortunate to be married to a Canadian I live on the border, When I cross in to Canada I bring my marriage license and wife because it's much faster. As a country that puts the welfare of it's citizens over foreigners the background check they do is very time consuming and extensive as it should be.



they want engineers, so having a degree would make it easier

move to Switzerland or europe


im also referring more as getting a work visa not becoming a citizen, for me personally, i.e permanent residence 

i have dual nationality so moving to Europe isn't as difficult, thats me though, i have options....


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> Not only that, only one of them also supported a insurrection and trying to claim it was a peaceful protest. Evidence doesn't get more damning when people are actively searching for Nancy Pelosi and shouting"kill mike pence"
> 
> and also having multiple extremist groups who had body armor, gas, which was thrown at the police, and a lot of other problems during January 6th



Yeah, because one singular riot that involved only a couple of deaths, destruction of property, minor looting and trespassing really can compare to thousands of riots with arson, murder, trespassing, destruction of property and looting. You do realize that the right thinks that each single riot from the left was as bad as the single riot from the rights ... and there's thousands of them. You're going to have hard time convincing anyone that isn't a hypocrite that thousands of riots should be dismissed while a singular one shouldn't be. Though, there's tons of hypocrites on this forum so you should get a few to sing your tune with you, but it's not like their opinions matter.

What? Thousands of riots? Yes, along with tens of thousands of peaceful protesting for BLM there were thousands of acts of violence (protesting turned violent is rioting). See here: https://acleddata.com/2021/02/05/us-crisis-monitor-releases-full-data-for-2020

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



D34DL1N3R said:


> Do I honestly need to post videos for you of Republicans lying, cheating, stealing, and breaking the law? It's fine to have an opinion, but holy fuck. Hypocrite much? If you're going to criticize one side or the other, at least try to not look like a moron in the process.



The last time I checked conservatives were much more trust worthy then Liberals. Regardless, if you're a liar then I want nothing to do with you because anything you say could be made up therefor you're useless. That's why I've blocked like over 20 people on this forum. I have no desire to discuss anything with people that make shit up out of thin air as that would be counterproductive.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> The last time I checked conservatives were much more trust worthy then Liberals.


If by "trust worthy" you mean you can always trust 'em to be liars, cheaters, grifters, narcissists, and sociopaths, then sure.

(Most of the reich-wingers in this thread have me on ignore for calling out their supremacist ideology, and this is one of them.)


----------



## Lacius (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Yeah, because one singular riot that involved only a couple of deaths, destruction of property, minor looting and trespassing really can compare to thousands of riots with arson, murder, trespassing, destruction of property and looting. You do realize that the right thinks that each single riot from the left was as bad as the single riot from the rights ... and there's thousands of them. You're going to have hard time convincing anyone that isn't a hypocrite that thousands of riots should be dismissed while a singular one shouldn't be. Though, there's tons of hypocrites on this forum so you should get a few to sing your tune with you, but it's not like their opinions matter.
> 
> What? Thousands of riots? Yes, along with tens of thousands of peaceful protesting for BLM there were thousands of acts of violence (protesting turned violent is rioting). See here: https://acleddata.com/2021/02/05/us-crisis-monitor-releases-full-data-for-2020
> 
> ...



Nobody condones deaths that occurred during protests.
Pointing to protest deaths in response to the January 6 violence is whataboutism.
BLM doesn't condone protest deaths. It's a peaceful movement, with much of the violence being police-instigated.
BLM is in response to systemic racism and police violence against people of color. January 6 was a violent insurrection against the United States. They could not be more different.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Nobody condones deaths that occurred during protests.
> Pointing to protest deaths in response to the January 6 violence is whataboutism.
> BLM doesn't condone protest deaths. It's a peaceful movement, with much of the violence being police-instigated.
> BLM is in response to systemic racism and police violence against people of color. January 6 was a violent insurrection against the United States. They could not be more different.


BLM also didn't try overthrowing an election. Unlike ya know... the January 6th riot.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> BLM also didn't try overthrowing an election. Unlike ya know... the January 6th riot.



No, they just killed people and burnt down businesses owned by minorities. That totally compares to a singular event of a few hundred people trespassing on Government property.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> No, they just killed people and burnt down businesses owned by minorities.


"BLM" didn't do this.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> No, they just killed people and burnt down businesses owned by minorities. That totally compares to a singular event of a few hundred people trespassing on Government property.


Conservatives be like: why don't you just bend over and take it?


----------



## PityOnU (Jul 21, 2021)

DACA never provided a pathway to citizenship for illegals.

Most illegals enter the United States via plane, not border crossing. They enter legally and then never leave. Walls/mines/guards do nothing.

There are more illegals than just Mexicans - *points at Asians*.

Why y'all wouldn't want these people to be documented and paying taxes while they're here is beyond me. Giving them legal protections would also stop them from being exploited in mega-low-wage positions. But hey, that's just me.

Also, you really crying about your janitor/fruit picking jobs?


----------



## Lacius (Jul 21, 2021)

PityOnU said:


> DACA never provided a pathway to citizenship for illegals.
> 
> Most illegals enter the United States via plane, not border crossing. They enter legally and then never leave. Walls/mines/guards do nothing.
> 
> ...


The conservatives crying about illegal immigration were the same ones who were crying about a labor shortage not long ago.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Conservatives be like: why don't you just bend over and take it?
> 
> View attachment 270605




lol....hmmm
Well, it is almost EXACTLY 1000 fatal shootings avg.
Most of those are righteous kills (which admittedly, there can always be thoughtful progress to curb even those)
I'd say only 100 are even possibly "murders", but we can give you a little slack, and call it 200

Some basic math, there are 3006 counties in the US.
If there are 200 wrongful police shootings each year, that's.....

200 wrongful shootings out of a total 3006 counties each year for a total of

0.07 of a murderous cop present in every county per year

objectively, a bad argument, dumb meme, and misguided use of the word serial killer

but yeah...I mean.....you can make the kind of a comparison an 8 year old would make and I guess pat yourself on the back


----------



## HalfScoper (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> lol....hmmm
> Well, it is almost EXACTLY 1000 fatal shootings avg.
> Most of those are righteous kills (which admittedly, there can always be thoughtful progress to curb even those)
> I'd say only 100 are even possibly "murders", but we can give you a little slack, and call it 200
> ...


I see you are a new profile, you just met the cringey leftist SJWs of this board, I know they are pathetic.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> Most of those are righteous kills (which admittedly, there can always be thoughtful progress to curb even those)


There is no such thing as a "righteous kill" dumbass, police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner.  Most countries see five police murders annually at most, and even those are met with their fair share of outrage.



HalfScoper said:


> I see you are a new profile


Clearly not a new profile, just an alt for some douchebag who's already been banned previously.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> There is no such thing as a "righteous kill" dumbass, police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner.  Most countries see five police murders annually at most, and even those are met with their fair share of outrage.
> 
> 
> Clearly not a new profile, just an alt for some douchebag who's already been banned previously.




If someone were trying to kill you, I would be okay with the police killing them to protect you, or themselves. That's understandable if you disagree with that being a righteous shooting; that's not actually what makes you so off-base.

Your use of the word "most" is again, flimsy and misleading.

With that 0.07 murderous cops per county (unless you're questioning my math, in which case, I'll introduce you to my friend, a calculator)
you can then compare that to the standard 700-100,000 actual psychopaths in existence per county in the US

with that in mind, 0.07 murderous cops becomes what we in the biz (statistics) call "not only statistically insignificant, but also practically so"

...and I'm actually just someone who just had a drastic impact on the wii scene so I made an alt...what can you even get banned for here?


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

PityOnU said:


> DACA never provided a pathway to citizenship for illegals.
> 
> Most illegals enter the United States via plane, not border crossing. They enter legally and then never leave. Walls/mines/guards do nothing.
> 
> ...



If there's hundreds of thousands of people that come into the USA legally each month via the VISA program that then don't leave when they are supposed to then they need to be removed from the country too. Your side seems to think that people opposed to illegal immigration are only opposed to people who are illegally crossing the border and that misconception is your mistake.

I for one would be interested in seeing the numbers of people who overstay their VISA's. Right now we have hundreds of thousands of people that get caught crossing the border on a monthly basis and that's not counting the majority who isn't caught. Do you have a reference I could refer to relating to the hundreds of thousands of people who overstay their VISA's on a monthly basis?


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> No, they just killed people and burnt down businesses owned by minorities. That totally compares to a singular event of a few hundred people trespassing on Government property.


trespassing... on goverment property
Wow, I didn't know that actively breaking into a building, looting through congresses documents and stations, littering, and have active attempt to harm elected officials just counts as "trespassing"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

What's next? your going to tell me that murder isn't murder?
"this isn't murder, this is just a surprise funeral"


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> tresspassing... on goverment property.
> Wow, I didn't know that actively breaking into a building, looting through congresses documents and stations, littering, and have active attempt to harm elected officials just counts as "trespassing"



The crimes that happened by the few hundred rioters (out of hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters on the 6th) pale in comparison to the crimes committed by tens of thousands of BLM and Antifa protesters. You can keep telling yourself that ransacking some desks and taking selfies on a podium are worse than burning down police stations and local businesses owned by minorities, but that sounds like more of a fundamental brain processing error than anything that comes close to the truth.


----------



## HalfScoper (Jul 21, 2021)

When do leftists learn to collect their nonsense thoughts and post one time without the bot merging them? So damn childish.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 21, 2021)

Lacius said:


> "BLM" didn't do this.



So Lacius is calling thousands of business owners who claim the contrary liars.

So did he light it on fire himself?

https://disrn.com/news/black-lives-matter-rioters-destroy-black-owned-business/


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> The crimes that happened by the few hundred rioters (out of hundreds of thousands of peaceful protesters on the 6th) pale in comparison to the crimes committed by tens of thousands of BLM and Antifa protesters. You can keep telling yourself that ransacking some desks and taking selfies on a podium are worse than burning down police stations and local businesses owned by minorities, but that sounds like more of a fundamental brain processing error than anything that comes close to the truth.


peaceful?

"hang mike pence"

bringing weapons to breakdown doors

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


them actively looking for Nancy.
Should I add the messages and dms saying they wanted to kill her?
Should I also add that?
How peaceful is this really when they have the active mind set to kill.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> With that 0.07 murderous cops per county (unless you're questioning my math, in which case, I'll introduce you to my friend, a calculator)


There is no justifying a thousand murders annually, no matter how much you play with the numbers in an attempt to minimalize or trivialize that fact.  There are no 7% chunks of police officers out there driving 7% of a Mustang.  What a thoroughly ridiculous way of attempting to re-frame the argument.

And if anyone thinks I'm being _too harsh_ on police, just keep in mind that I'm not even bringing police brutality and domestic abuse numbers into the conversation.  That's a whole other can of worms.


----------



## HalfScoper (Jul 21, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> So Lacius is calling thousands of business owners who claim the contrary liars.
> 
> So did he light it on fire himself?
> 
> https://disrn.com/news/black-lives-matter-rioters-destroy-black-owned-business/


I feel so sorry that you have to deal with so many retards in the USA, despite their political orientation.



Reual said:


> peaceful
> 
> "hang mike pence"
> 
> ...



Again he lacks the intelligence to make a single post.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> I feel so sorry that you have to deal with so many retards in the USA, despite their political orientation.
> 
> Again he lacks the intelligence to make a single post.



Luckily I live in sovereign Native land within the sovereign nation of Montana, looking forward to the Soviet style collapse on the way.  It's coming, lot sooner than people think IMO.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> Again he lacks the intelligence to make a singel post.


If your talking about me, and my intelligence. How about you don't misspell single.
Further more, I gave video evidence, how many posts it takes doesn't matter. And clearly you don't have a argument to make.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

oh and since you edited it. Here's the original line from you



do a bit of review of your words, auto correct isn't that hard


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> When do leftists learn to collect their nonsense thoughts and post one time without the bot merging them? So damn childish.



Hey. First of all I'd like to thank you for your +likes, but to be fair a forum user might have had replied to multiple posts and the software simply merges the content to not clutter up the thread. I myself find that I'll reply to one post on a page and then reply to another on a new page. While I could add up the quotes and inject them into a single post then reply to that post I often find it easier just to reply to each post by itself. Anyway, thanks again for the likes.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> There is no justifying a thousand murders annually, no matter how much you play with the numbers in an attempt to minimalize or trivialize that fact.  There are no 7% chunks of police officers out there driving 7% of a Mustang.  What a thoroughly ridiculous way of attempting to re-frame the argument.



The numbers are what they are. Statistically insignificant doesn't get a new definition just so you can cobble together a sentiment.
Cops aren't killers in any kind of meaningful percentage amongst their own peers, or the population at large.
Obviously you're struggling with this. Take a breather and come back with a new meme you're more confident in if you need to.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> peaceful?
> 
> "hang mike pence"
> 
> ...




Yes peaceful. What you didn't see in the left wing media was the 100,000+ peaceful protesters who were in the capitol. All you saw was the 300-400 who branched off and started to riot on their own. Hey, if the Liberals claim their hundreds of thousands of protests were "mostly peaceful" then it would be fair to point out that there were 100,000+ other people who didn't riot on the 6th. It was only a few hundred people who did.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> When do leftists learn to collect their nonsense thoughts and post one time without the bot merging them? So damn childish.


Well I could end up double posting. Have everyone know I added to my argument, or I could retroactively edited into another previous message, and have everyone angry at me.
Take your pick.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



JonhathonBaxster said:


> Yes peaceful. What you didn't see in the left wing media was the 100,000+ peaceful protesters who were in the capital. All you saw was the 300-400 who branched off and started to riot on their own. Hey, if the Liberals claim their hundreds of thousands of protests were "mostly peaceful" then it would be fair to point out that there were 100,000+ other people who didn't riot on the 6th. It was only a few hundred people who did.


False equivlency. Multiple white nationalist terrorists groups such as proudboys and others were present. they had body armor, they had guns, they had weapons, and they had gas. And many of those "protestors" which are closer to rioters, went beyond the barrier, already trespassing, many of them pushed officers down. And then others went inside the capital. with the intent to harm


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> The numbers are what they are. Statistically insignificant doesn't get a new definition just so you can cobble together a sentiment.


If you can justify a thousand murders a year in your mind as "statistically insignificant," then you can do the same with millions of murders.  You can do the same with the Holocaust.  Time to grow up and realize that systemic problems don't cease to be problems just because they don't affect you personally.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

I should also add on that I'm not making up these "terrorists groups" FBI, department of homeland security had also designated them as such pre capital.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> If you can justify a thousand murders a year in your mind as "statistically insignificant," then you can do the same with millions of murders.  You can do the same with the Holocaust.  Time to grow up and realize that systemic problems don't cease to be problems just because they don't affect you personally.



you acting like you don't understand my point isn't helping yours, lmao.

But by all means, go ahead and wrench yourself to show how you think me pointing out your nonsense is the same as "justifying" murder
Do you....need....a dictionary?

Calculator and dictionary.....shoot me your address...I gotchu


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> False equivlency. Multiple white nationalist terrorists groups such as proudboys and others were present. they had body armor, they had guns, they had weapons, and they had gas. And many of those "protestors" which are closer to rioters, went beyond the barrier, already trespassing, many of them pushed officers down. And then others went inside the capital. with the intent to harm



If the intent to harm was the goal of the 300-400 rioters who broke off from the main 100,000+ people protesting then they failed their goal miserably. There's not any comparison you can make that would somehow justify the looting, arson, murder, trespassing and destruction of property that took place thousands of times by BLM and Antifa rioters when comparing it to a bunch of roughnecks that decided to trespass and take selfies just once. Though, this subject is off topic and I've said I that needs to be said about it. Have a good night.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> If the intent to harm was the goal of the 300-400 rioters who broke off from the main 100,000+ people protesting then they failed their goal miserably. There's not any comparison you can make that would somehow justify the looting, arson, murder, trespassing and destruction of property that took place thousands of times by BLM and Antifa rioters when comparing it to a bunch of roughnecks that decided to trespass and take selfies just once. Though, this subject is off topic and I've said I that needs to be said about it. Have a good night.


"I didn't kill the person, even though I was planning to kill them"
attempted murder, IS STILL THE INTENT TO KILL



"It can't be a coup. It failed." is your logic. Which is stupid, a  failed coup is still a coup


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> you acting like you don't understand my point isn't helping yours, lmao.


What point?  That you can make numbers and statistics say whatever you want them to?  I was already well aware of that.  You might as well have gone even bigger and attempted to use the world population to make police murders look like even less of a problem.

It's pretty easy to just say, "yeah, I agree, murderers should be prosecuted and locked up, no matter their job."  But nah let's just dance around for hours with these mental gymnastics of yours so that you don't have to come to some dark realizations about yourself and your morals/values.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 21, 2021)

Considering the D.C. Capitol hosts rowdy demonstrations routinely to the tune of hundreds of thousands of people if you believe 3-500 people can breach the Capitol that easily you are a moron.

Either those in charge of the security need to be fired or it was a Cointelpro type operation that allowed them in.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> What point?  That you can make numbers and statistics say whatever you want them to?  I was already well aware of that.  You might as well have gone even bigger and attempted to use the world population to make police murders look like even less of a problem.
> 
> It's pretty easy to just say, "yeah, I agree, murderers should be prosecuted and locked up, no matter their job."  But nah let's just dance around for hours with these mental gymnastics of yours so that you don't have to come to some dark realizations about yourself and your morals/values.



I do think murderers should be prosecuted and locked up, no matter their job.
That was not the point of your meme.....which....with only mental calisthenics, actually, I refuted.

You basically can't build any point off your presupposition of bad cops aplenty, because you have up your sleeve, and have proffered, zero data to back it up. Just take the L, I'm sure sometimes you make a few good points.


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Considering the D.C. Capitol hosts rowdy demonstrations routinely to the tune of hundreds of thousands of people if you believe 3-500 people can breach the Capitol that easily you are a moron.


It was a planned attack.
Terrorists groups such as proudboys noted where the captial police was, there was several entrances, when they got overwhelmed at the front, the ones on the sides had to move their post. It wasn't 3-500 people. It was 3-500+ a croud of over 1,000 rioters forcing police to move around to prevent them to get in creating weak points in other areas. And further more trump delayed the national guard getting there for over 4 hours. Despite being asked hours earlier.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> I do think murderers should be prosecuted and locked up, no matter their job.


Well I'll be damned, was that so hard?



Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> You basically can't build any point off your presupposition of bad cops aplenty, because you have up your sleeve, and have proffered, zero data to back it up.


You never disputed my claim of a thousand murders by cops annually, nor did you ever ask for a source.  "Aplenty" is a subjective term, but taking a thousand bad cops per year off the streets would undoubtedly make a big difference, and quickly.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Well I'll be damned, was that so hard?
> 
> 
> You never disputed my claim of a thousand murders by cops annually, nor did you ever ask for a source.  "Aplenty" is a subjective term, but taking a thousand bad cops per year off the streets would undoubtedly make a big difference, and quickly.




Clear as day I contested your murder numbers just a few posts prior XD
No point in discussing anything like this with a liar,
but even less point with someone who'll lie about something you can literally flip back a couple pages about.
Even if I ceded the number your asinine meme contained, 1000 instead of 200, which was generous to begin with, it wouldn't bring legitimacy to the post I originally responded to.
I didn't ask for the source, because of how evident it is that your go-to source is masturbatory self-righteous ignorance.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> Clear as day I contested your murder numbers just a few posts prior XD


Handwaving away 80% of the murders committed by police because you've got questionable morals is not the same as factually disputing the number I provided.



Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> I didn't ask for the source, because of how evident it is that your go-to source is masturbatory self-righteous ignorance.


And you didn't provide a source of your own, because you know you'd have to turn to some partisan sensationalist bullshit to contradict me.


----------



## _abysswalker_ (Jul 21, 2021)

Funny that every random Joe who can spell "statistically" considers himself a data analyst these days. God save America.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> The last time I checked conservatives were much more trust worthy then Liberals. Regardless, if you're a liar then I want nothing to do with you because anything you say could be made up therefor you're useless. That's why I've blocked like over 20 people on this forum. I have no desire to discuss anything with people that make shit up out of thin air as that would be counterproductive.



Again, hypocrite much? Conservatives are THE single largest group of compulsive hypocrites on the face of the planet. I just. I can't even believe what I just read. Go ahead and block me and stay in your little echo chamber full of denial to your own sides lies and shit made up completely out of thin air. You have accomplished nothing more than .


----------



## Davycrockof (Jul 21, 2021)

love how liberals fight for undocumented workers but not towards providing citzenship. its modern day slavery. "but who is going to do the jobs others dont want to do?" remember these are same people who started a civil war to keep slavery


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

Davycrockof said:


> love how liberals fight for undocumented workers


they don't


Davycrockof said:


> but not towards providing citzenship.


they have
I'd advise talking with actual liberals, rather than talking points you heard from (insert news channel here)
you'd realize that none of them are arguing that illegal immigration is okay. However what you would fine is that
A. they understand the immigration system is unnecessarily broken, and breaks the original chain between united states and mexico
B. Which chain was that Mexican's would look for work here during the summer, primarily in farming and in the field work. And then return to mexico. But now that it's such a messy process, they choose to stay.
C. none of them vouch for open borders, what they often are vouching is a more efficient system, and multiple paths to citizenship.
Since simply put, there are matters below the united states that force people to move up here expediently, such as gangs actively looking to kill them. And then when the United States does not provide them safety, and the gang is getting closer. they are forced for their own lives to illegally cross over. So rather than immedately incarcerate them, and spit them out. Provide more options.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Davycrockof said:


> "but who is going to do the jobs others dont want to do?" remember these are same people who started a civil war to keep slavery


also false.
there was a party swap. if you keep track of the democratic party, and pay attention to the map, you'd quickly notice what was the democratic party back then, changed into the republican party.


----------



## Davycrockof (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> they don't
> 
> they have
> I'd advise talking with actual liberals, rather than talking points you heard from (insert news channel here)
> ...



how cute, denial


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

Davycrockof said:


> how cute, denial


well nothing I can do then. you already made up your mind. I just explained their stance, I'm not even a liberal myself.



No like seriously, if you look at my history, you'd realize I'd identify as anarcho communist. I've explicitly mentioned my position
and tl;dr
Liberals and I don't agree on much.


----------



## HalfScoper (Jul 21, 2021)

Reual said:


> No like seriously, if you look at my history, you'd realize I'd identify as anarcho communist.


I knew you ain't right in the head, just couldn't point it to a specific political belief.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 21, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> So Lacius is calling thousands of business owners who claim the contrary liars.
> 
> So did he light it on fire himself?
> 
> https://disrn.com/news/black-lives-matter-rioters-destroy-black-owned-business/


There is a difference between "rioters destroy businesses during BLM protest" and "BLM destroys businesses."

The vast majority (approximately 95%) of BLM protests were completely peaceful, and much of the violence was police-instigated, caused by people looking to start trouble like Kyle Rittenhouse, etc.


----------



## Imbecilesdisagreewithme (Jul 21, 2021)

splymb said:


> Funny that every random Joe who can spell "statistically" considers himself a data analyst these days. God save America.



Data analyst is pretty universally an entry-level position; they aren't difficult to obtain, train in, or hold onto, and don't often even require a degree.
I hire a dozen or so a year.
In all seriousness, maybe you meant something else?

Best part is Xzi liked it XDXDXDXD


----------



## _abysswalker_ (Jul 21, 2021)

Imbecilesdisagreewithme said:


> Data analyst is pretty universally an entry-level position; they aren't difficult to obtain, train in, or hold onto, and don't often even require a degree.
> I hire a dozen or so a year.


Sure buddy whatever makes you feel smart


----------



## PityOnU (Jul 21, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> If there's hundreds of thousands of people that come into the USA legally each month via the VISA program that then don't leave when they are supposed to then they need to be removed from the country too. Your side seems to think that people opposed to illegal immigration are only opposed to people who are illegally crossing the border and that misconception is your mistake.
> 
> I for one would be interested in seeing the numbers of people who overstay their VISA's. Right now we have hundreds of thousands of people that get caught crossing the border on a monthly basis and that's not counting the majority who isn't caught. Do you have a reference I could refer to relating to the hundreds of thousands of people who overstay their VISA's on a monthly basis?



Sure - here's a whole video on it, with sources cited therein.



Also, there is no consensus on the success rate of physical border crossings from Mexico, so I would LOVE to see your sources on that one.

I am not on any "side," btw. I'm registered as an independent voter. You're the one who's advocating for increased power to be awarded to the state to enforce what is, at the end of the day, an arbitrary law related to imaginary lines in the sand. Do I want the state to be pounding on my door in the middle of the night and searching my property for illegals given "reasonable suspicion" (because door to door is the only way they're going to track down any of the illegals who aren't regularly taken into custody)? Hell no, my friend. They can say hello to the business end of my "home defense system."

You are also suggesting that my tax money should continue to be spent to give these people, once apprehended, a free flight home after they have been potentially taking from the system and not paying taxes for (in terms of the people covered by DACA) 10-25 years. Up yours.


----------



## Darth Meteos (Jul 21, 2021)

and so the right-wing takeover of gbatemp continues



JonhathonBaxster said:


> Your side


political discourse in the mud


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> I knew you ain't right in the head, just couldn't point it to a specific political belief.


okiedokie whatever you say. As I should add though, what is wrong with my belief? or "ain't right in the head"
You just stated that, but gave no why.
Let's also not forget


Davycrockof said:


> how cute, denial


This is your first interaction with me when I explained something to you in a political position I am not apart of. I'd ask you to look into the mirror


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> I knew you ain't right in the head, just couldn't point it to a specific political belief.


"You're all mixed up, no clue who you're supposed to be fighting for or against!" - Conservative with a Wolfenstein avatar


----------



## HalfScoper (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "You're all mixed up, no clue who you're supposed to be fighting for or against!" - Conservative with a Wolfenstein avatar


Imagine being so pathetic when you run out of arguments, that you make mere assumptions based on my profile picture. I am sorry Mr. Internet Police that I liked playing that game and that I am not displaying any kind of anime or japanese related stuff in it or my signature. 
And neither am I conservative, I am just fed up with your unpolitical bullshit that's all based upon your feelings, I stay in the center of it and don't want to be connected with any of those ultra-winged sides, because I am able to see a median in between both arguments.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> I am sorry Mr. Internet Police that I liked playing that game and that I am not displaying any kind of anime or japanese related stuff in it or my signature.


No need to be sorry, it means you enjoy killing nazis as much as the next gamer.  We share that in common.



HalfScoper said:


> And neither am I conservative, I am just fed up with your unpolitical bullshit that's all based upon your feelings, I stay in the center of it and don't want to be connected with any of those ultra-winged sides, because I am able to see a median in between both arguments.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 21, 2021)

HalfScoper said:


> Imagine being so pathetic when you run out of arguments, that you make mere assumptions based on my profile picture. I am sorry Mr. Internet Police that I liked playing that game and that I am not displaying any kind of anime or japanese related stuff in it or my signature.
> And neither am I conservative, I am just fed up with your unpolitical bullshit that's all based upon your feelings, I stay in the center of it and don't want to be connected with any of those ultra-winged sides, because I am able to see a median in between both arguments.


An argument to moderation is a logical fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation


----------



## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nah you love denying opportunities and basic human rights to minorities.  Don't be a bitch about it, just own it like your buddy Jimbo.


When people want to permanently move to Mexico and are not Mexican citizens, they must provide the Mexican government proof that (a) they have enough funds to sustain themselves for the rest of their lives and (b) will not be a burden on the Mexican economy. By 'burden', the Mexican government means that they will not attempt to collect any government aid or subsidies, nor will they seek any employment opportunities. Lastly, just because Mexico approves their visa application does NOT mean they are now citizens.




Is that not the EXACT same thing that the United States laws impose upon foreign nationals, not to mention most other countries around the world? 

Since the main focus seems to be Central andSouth America, another entertainingly hypocritical action many countries in Central and South America do is enforce border security within their own countries, yet expect the United States to completely eliminate border security to accommodate their self-serving needs. Detention and deportation are commonplace all throughout the different countries, yet the United States is lambasted for doing the exact same thing.

tl;dr   DACA is over and fairly so. Deal with it.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 21, 2021)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> When people want to permanently move to Mexico and are not Mexican citizens, they must provide the Mexican government proof that (a) they have enough funds to sustain themselves for the rest of their lives and (b) will not be a burden on the Mexican economy. By 'burden', the Mexican government means that they will not attempt to collect any government aid or subsidies, nor will they seek any employment opportunities. Lastly, just because Mexico approves their visa application does NOT mean they are now citizens.
> 
> Is that not the EXACT same thing that the United States laws impose upon foreign nationals, not to mention most other countries around the world?


It is not.  Corporations don't want highly-educated and highly-skilled white collar workers crossing the border, they only want undocumented workers that they can exploit with poverty wages and threats of deportation.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> Since the main focus seems to be Central andSouth America, another entertainingly hypocritical action many countries in Central and South America do is enforce border security within their own countries, yet expect the United States to completely eliminate border security to accommodate their self-serving needs.


You mention hypocrisy yet decline to mention all the times throughout the last two decades alone that the US fucked with South America, its leaders, and its economies.  Trump knew his actions and policies would lead to a surge in immigrants from the South, and it benefited him politically to fear-monger over brown people while he simultaneously benefited financially by employing undocumented workers at his resorts and hotels.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> tl;dr DACA is over and fairly so. Deal with it.


It's actually not over at all, anybody currently here under DACA can continue to re-enroll in the program as long as they'd like, even if the Texas judge's ruling stands (doubtful).  And celebrating discrimination is asinine, you wouldn't see any benefit in your personal life from DACA ending.


----------



## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 22, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It is not.  Corporations don't want highly-educated and highly-skilled white collar workers crossing the border, they only want undocumented workers that they can exploit with poverty wages and threats of deportation.



Companies hire skilled and educated foreigners all the time by giving them H-class and J-class visas all the time, saving costs related to hiring an equally-qualified citizen. https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/technology/disney-h1b-workers/index.html



> You mention hypocrisy yet decline to mention all the times throughout the last two decades alone that the US fucked with South America, its leaders, and its economies.  Trump knew his actions and policies would lead to a surge in immigrants from the South, and it benefited him politically to fear-monger over brown people while he simultaneously benefited financially by employing undocumented workers at his resorts and hotels.



I literally said that the US does the same thing, so way to misrepresent my point. Also, you said 'the last two decades', yet seem to single out Trump as the root cause of it all, even though you admit that it occurred prior to his presidency. Stop switching stances and pick one.




> It's actually not over at all, anybody currently here under DACA can continue to re-enroll in the program as long as they'd like, even if the Texas judge's ruling stands (doubtful).  And celebrating discrimination is asinine, you wouldn't see any benefit in your personal life from DACA ending.



1) Do you truly understand what you are debating? Look up "grandfathering clause".
2) It isn't discrimination when it applies to ALL people emigrating to the United States.
3) DACA was available for anyone that qualified, not just "brown people".
4) Whether I do or do not benefit, assuming that I "wouldn't see any benefit" in DACA ending is presumptuous and rather immature. I am providing factual evidence, yet you seem to rely solely on personal attacks and emotion.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 22, 2021)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> Companies hire skilled and educated foreigners all the time by giving them H-class and J-class visas all the time, saving costs related to hiring an equally-qualified citizen. https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/technology/disney-h1b-workers/index.html


What are we talking about here, one for every one thousand undocumented blue-collar worker that corporations hire?  It's nice that the program exists at all, sure, but the bottlenecks shouldn't be there.  It's painfully inefficient and broken in a number of ways, just like our immigration system at large.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> Also, you said 'the last two decades', yet seem to single out Trump as the root cause of it all, even though you admit that it occurred prior to his presidency. Stop switching stances and pick one.


It actually goes back much further than that, but I singled out Trump because his administration's policies were intentionally malicious where immigration was concerned.  Not to mention the US staged a coup against a democratically-elected socialist leader in South America during his term.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> It isn't discrimination when it applies to ALL people emigrating to the United States.


That just means its discriminatory toward even more people.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> Whether I do or do not benefit, assuming that I "wouldn't see any benefit" in DACA ending is presumptuous and rather immature.


Immature is wishing harm or ill-will upon people you've never met.  I'll not retract my statement, either.  There is no possible benefit for you personally in ending DACA, it's only something you feel obligated to cheer for because you're treating politics like a team sport, instead of considering the real-world impact a decision like this can have on millions of people.


----------



## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 23, 2021)

Xzi said:


> What are we talking about here, one for every one thousand undocumented blue-collar worker that corporations hire?  It's nice that the program exists at all, sure, but the bottlenecks shouldn't be there.  It's painfully inefficient and broken in a number of ways, just like our immigration system at large.



You stated "Corporations don't want highly-educated and highly-skilled white collar workers crossing the border," which I am simply proving is false. Don't move the goalposts.




> It actually goes back much further than that, but I singled out Trump because his administration's policies were intentionally malicious where immigration was concerned.  Not to mention the US staged a coup against a democratically-elected socialist leader in South America during his term.



1) I do agree that certain aspects of the immigration policy were inappropriate, but assessing immigrants and keeping each accounted for is not malicious. That is literally what immigration policy is about.
2) Parents were literally sending their children with coyotes to sneak into the United States, possessing no form of identification, yet were upset that the children's family could not be identified.
3) Not disagreeing with you about the Venezuelan coup of Maduro. Maduro is still a bad person though, and just remember that Vladimir Putin is 'reelected' every time too.




> That just means its discriminatory toward even more people.


I see you still haven't looked up "grandfather clause".




> Immature is wishing harm or ill-will upon people you've never met.



Vocabulary lesson #2: malevolent



> I'll not retract my statement, either.  There is no possible benefit for you personally in ending DACA, it's only something you feel obligated to cheer for because you're treating politics like a team sport, instead of considering the real-world impact a decision like this can have on millions of people.



1) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

2) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

3) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal


----------



## Xzi (Jul 23, 2021)

SuzieJoeBob said:


> You stated "Corporations don't want highly-educated and highly-skilled white collar workers crossing the border," which I am simply proving is false. Don't move the goalposts.


My statement remains correct, they get their undocumented blue collar labor from Southern border crossings, while highly-skilled white collar workers they request by name and usually fly them over at the company's expense.  The latter is not what's causing suppressed wages.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> Parents were literally sending their children with coyotes to sneak into the United States, possessing no form of identification, yet were upset that the children's family could not be identified.


In some cases, yes.  In others, the Trump administration only lost track of the parents after deporting them.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> Not disagreeing with you about the Venezuelan coup of Maduro. Maduro is still a bad person though, and just remember that Vladimir Putin is 'reelected' every time too.


Umm, he had just been elected the once.  There's no evidence to suggest he would've been an anti-democracy dictator like Putin.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> I see you still haven't looked up "grandfather clause".


Clearly I know what that is, as I described it in my first reply to you.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> Vocabulary lesson #2: malevolent


I'll be sure to ask if I ever need help with synonyms, thanks.



SuzieJoeBob said:


> 1) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic
> 
> 2) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
> 
> 3) https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal


None of these apply, and you still haven't been able to verbalize a single way in which you would benefit from DACA being repealed.  So I'm just gonna assume you concede that point.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 23, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Again, hypocrite much? Conservatives are THE single largest group of compulsive hypocrites on the face of the planet. I just. I can't even believe what I just read. Go ahead and block me and stay in your little echo chamber full of denial to your own sides lies and shit made up completely out of thin air. You have accomplished nothing more than .



I'm not in an echo chamber as I intake plenty of main stream media. I just have no desire to deal with the dishonest hypocritical liberals on this site. So I will add you to my ignore list, per request.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 23, 2021)

PityOnU said:


> Sure - here's a whole video on it, with sources cited therein.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, there is no consensus on the success rate of physical border crossings from Mexico, so I would LOVE to see your sources on that one.




Thanks for the video link. I'll watch it when I get some time. You are right that there's no consensus of how many people make it into the country and vanish before being caught by border patrol. That's sort of the nature of how it works. If we knew the actual number that means we'd have a way to stop them. What happens is this ... they come in illegally and try to head for a big city with sanctuary laws that prevent them from being reported and allow them to pick up public benefits. If for so reason they get caught they are instructed to claim asylum. They had no intention on claiming asylum until they got caught as it's a last ditch effort. I live close to the US Mexican border so I'm fairly informed about how things work South of me.



			
				PityOnU said:
			
		

> I am not on any "side," btw. I'm registered as an independent voter. You're the one who's advocating for increased power to be awarded to the state to enforce what is, at the end of the day, an arbitrary law related to imaginary lines in the sand. Do I want the state to be pounding on my door in the middle of the night and searching my property for illegals given "reasonable suspicion" (because door to door is the only way they're going to track down any of the illegals who aren't regularly taken into custody)? Hell no, my friend. They can say hello to the business end of my "home defense system."



I am also an Independent and I never advocated for such things.



			
				PityOnU said:
			
		

> You are also suggesting that my tax money should continue to be spent to give these people, once apprehended, a free flight home after they have been potentially taking from the system and not paying taxes for (in terms of the people covered by DACA) 10-25 years. Up yours.



I'm not sure where you're drawing these assumptions from, but I rather illegal aliens just be dropped right over the border back into Mexico as opposed to being detained here in the States or given a plane ticket to go back to where they came from.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 23, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I'm not in an echo chamber as I intake plenty of main stream media. I just have no desire to deal with the dishonest hypocritical liberals on this site. So I will add you to my ignore list, per request.



That's insulting and unfair to traditional Liberals, the under 30 progressive marxists on this site biggest motivation in life is state funding of genital removal and have little in common with liberals.

Their motto should be _"Authoritarianism or someone's feelings might get hurt"._


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jul 23, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> I'm not in an echo chamber as I intake plenty of main stream media. I just have no desire to deal with the dishonest hypocritical liberals on this site. So I will add you to my ignore list, per request.



Adding to your ignore list is in FACT placing yourself in an echo chamber because you are then flat out refusing to hear the opinions of others that don't agree with you. And "dishonest hypocritical liberals on this site"???? Ohhhh, the pure hypocrisy of that statement. Fucking seriously?


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 23, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> Adding to your ignore list is in FACT placing yourself in an echo chamber because you are then flat out refusing to hear the opinions of others that don't agree with you. And "dishonest hypocritical liberals on this site"???? Ohhhh, the pure hypocrisy of that statement. Fucking seriously?



Nonsense, most people on this topic like to debate and argue. But there are also many bratty delusional marxist who rarely have a coherent point.  If all someone does is shit post and name call we ignore them instead of engaging before Sicklyboy comes thru looking for excuses to suspend conservatives.


----------



## SuzieJoeBob (Jul 24, 2021)

You don't seem to be open to anything that contradicts with your beliefs, so I'll concede to the inability to reason with a person who is deaf to it.

I WILL make a few "final statements" though.




Xzi said:


> l be sure to ask if I ever need help with synonyms, thanks.
> 
> None of these apply, and you still haven't been able to verbalize a single way in which you would benefit from DACA being repealed.  So I'm just gonna assume you concede that point.


1) You still don't understand immature is not a synonym of malevolent. Vocabulary is finite, your lack of understanding it isn't.

2) You either lack reading comprehension skills or choose to make inferences based on 'facts' that only you can see. Just because I won't give my reason doesn't mean I am missing one. I choose not to post something that I am uncomfortable speaking about. If someone was a sexual assault victim or domestic abuse victim who never told anyone, does that mean it never happened? How about someone who isn't public about a disease they have, like Chadwick Boseman?


You can continue to make a fool of yourself, but I am no longer going to entertain the court jester.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jul 24, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Nonsense, most people on this topic like to debate and argue. But there are also many bratty delusional marxist who rarely have a coherent point.  If all someone does is shit post and name call we ignore them instead of engaging before Sicklyboy comes thru looking for excuses to suspend conservatives.



If you feel that conservatives are the only ones here that have been reprimanded for their behavior, I need to correct you. You are factually wrong.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 24, 2021)

D34DL1N3R said:


> If you feel that conservatives are the only ones here that have been reprimanded for their behavior, I need to correct you. You are factually wrong.



No you need to correct your imagination and whatever voice in your head your arguing with.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jul 24, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> No you need to correct your imagination and whatever voice in your head your arguing with.



That makes absolutely ZERO sense in the context of things and what you're STILL telling me and everyone else is that not a single liberal has been reprimanded here for their actions. Yet you want to talk about imaginations and voices? LMFAO!!!! It just doesn't get much better than this, but continue on with that entire foot & mouth thing because you know, you're STILL factually wrong. But whatever floats your boat to make you STILL feel like a victim. Poor you. Everyone out to get you and those pesky conservatives. It's all just so unfair!!!!


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 27, 2021)

(Snipped, wrong thread)


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2021)

Lacius said:


> "BLM" didn't do this.



"BLM" in quotes, does that refer to the organization founded by trained Marxists now buying mansions across the country? Or local chapters? The local chapters organization's followers sure did, I know a couple of them.  You're funny.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 27, 2021)

eastwald said:


> does that refer to the organization founded by trained Marxists now buying mansions across the country?


The fuck is a "trained Marxist?"  A worker with a shred of self-respect?  And why would capitalists give them a bunch of free money to buy mansions with?  I must've missed that convention.

Seriously though, you're spouting total nonsense.  Put down the crack pipe.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 27, 2021)

eastwald said:


> "BLM" in quotes, does that refer to the organization founded by trained Marxists now buying mansions across the country? Or local chapters? The local chapters organization's followers sure did, I know a couple of them.  You're funny.


I used quotes because I was referencing the post I was replying to. If you're interested in learning about Black Lives Matter, I recommend the Wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 27, 2021)

Xzi said:


> The fuck is a "trained Marxist?"  A worker with a shred of self-respect?  And why would capitalists give them a bunch of free money to buy mansions with?  I must've missed that convention.
> 
> Seriously though, you're spouting total nonsense.  Put down the crack pipe.



Total nonsense etc.. default reply.

Ask them: 

Marxists want a single-party state, with government control of everything. This ideology has killed hundreds of millions of people.

Equity of outcome is a delusion that goes against everything we know about human behavior. You think smartphones would exist under your system? If they did, they'd be subject to heavy censorship, another tenet of Marxism.

I'd suggest you pick up a book  (or 10 - they were prolific) by these people you respect so much. "One Dimensional Man" , anything by Herbert Marcuse , Escape from Freedom, Negative Dialectics, Reason and Revolution for starters. There are a lot more. Read one or two and get back to me.

Don't envy people who viewed society from "_Grand Hotel Abyss"_ when you've never entered the Hotel.

The only group of people, i.e. fascists, forcing ideas down peoples throats currently are coming from your party. We have a live and let live approach, so long as you respect diverse views aside from your own. That includes religions - and subsequent morality that has made progress in society. Use old establishment conservatism examples as much as you want, and you'll see

If you were born with no idea of morality (thousands of years at this point), you think it would come naturally?

Everyone's enemy is crony Capitalism. China uses many aspects of Capitalism to survive.  I kind of enjoy rewarding people w/ great ideas. Not so much as what it's turned into - btw, these mega-corps all support (for now) your ideals, but they'll never go "full retard" - Tropic Thunder like you have been brainwashed into doing. They see you as useful idiots, with all due respect, for now. You still buy phones, shoes, etc. They will turn on you like a dime, and every person in this country who doesn't have total disdain for America and/or religion will fight till the death before they renounce God - another Marx thing.

I was an atheist until I did work for some universities creating base-4 VM interpreters for chaining human genome. I believe in evolution, but there is a design that is undeniable, and not created by chance. The man who discovered DNA had similar revelations after his discovery.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 27, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Marxists want a single-party state, with government control of everything. This ideology has killed hundreds of millions of people.


So kinda like what we're dealing with under capitalist oligarchy right now?  Authoritarianism is not exclusive to any economic system.  Socialists want workers to have control over the means of production, not necessarily government, though some believe a centralized government would have to seize everything before it could be redistributed to the working class.  It is almost entirely out of the question that the ruling class (millionaires and billionaires) would give up a large portion of their ill-gotten wealth voluntarily, but as a democratic socialist I think we can pass a second bill of workers' rights (New Deal 2.0) to at least rid ourselves of exploitative employers going forward.



eastwald said:


> Equity of outcome is a delusion that goes against everything we know about human behavior.


Who said anything about equity of outcome?  Tougher jobs should pay more, and that includes fast food and retail work.  Corporations really don't have much choice lately with the "worker shortage."



eastwald said:


> The only group of people, i.e. fascists, are coming from your party. We have a live and let live approach, so long as you respect diverse views aside from your own. That includes religions - and subsequent morality that has made progress in society.


So your claim is that group of snow-white tiki torch nazis marching through Charlottesville repeatedly shouting, "Jews will not replace us!"  ...They were leftists?  Nobody's buying that snake oil, sorry bud.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 27, 2021)

eastwald said:


> I was an ashiest until I did work for some universities creating base-4 VM interpreters for chaining human genome. I believe in evolution, but there is a design that is undeniable, and not created by chance. The man who discovered DNA had similar revelations after his discovery.



Glad I'm not the only one who knows what's up.


----------



## Xzi (Jul 27, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Everyone's enemy is crony Capitalism. China uses many aspects of Capitalism to survive. I kind of enjoy rewarding people w/ great ideas. Not so much as what it's turned into - btw, these mega-corps all support (for now) your ideals, but they'll never go "full retard" - Tropic Thunder like you have been brainwashed into doing. They see you as useful idiots, with all due respect, for now. You still buy phones, shoes, etc. They will turn on you like a dime, and every person in this country who doesn't have total disdain for America and/or religion will fight till the death before they renounce God - another Marx thing.


Literally every Marxist/leftist on the planet knows that corporations aren't our friends, it's cute that you thought you were teaching me something new here.  I do appreciate your admission that modern capitalism has plenty of problems, though.



eastwald said:


> I was an ashiest until I did work for some universities creating base-4 VM interpreters for chaining human genome. I believe in evolution, but there is a design that is undeniable, and not created by chance. The man who discovered DNA had similar revelations after his discovery.


Not sure what the discussion has to do with religion, but I'm agnostic precisely because we can't know the unknowable.  I dig and very much identify with the concept of FF7's lifestream, but can I say for certain that's how the afterlife works?  Of course not.  I see the commitment to any one man-made religion as similarly ridiculous, as they're just stories built upon and remixed from older stories.  I also think both the Egyptian and Viking mythologies are neat, as an aside.


----------



## seany1990 (Jul 27, 2021)

And the second _is_ like, _namely_ this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, given thy neighbour is white and of wealth. There is none other commandment greater than these.
-Mark Ch 12 v 30
Evangelical edition


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## Lacius (Jul 28, 2021)

eastwald said:


> I was an ashiest until I did work for some universities creating base-4 VM interpreters for chaining human genome. I believe in evolution, but there is a design that is undeniable, and not created by chance. The man who discovered DNA had similar revelations after his discovery.


By definition, evolution by natural selection isn't design. I'd be curious to know how you reached the conclusion that anything about the human genome is designed.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 28, 2021)

seany1990 said:


> And the second _is_ like, _namely_ this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, given thy neighbour is white and of wealth. There is none other commandment greater than these.
> -Mark Ch 12 v 30
> Evangelical edition




Neighbor being used to denote proximity is a rather vapid interpretation of the word, shared culture & values are much more relevant.  Not everyone has a multiculturalism fetish and if someone wants to live in a homogeneous community mind yo bizzness.


----------



## Lacius (Jul 28, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Neighbor being used to denote proximity is a rather vapid interpretation of the word, shared culture & values are much more relevant.  Not everyone has a multiculturalism fetish and if someone wants to live in a homogeneous community mind yo bizzness.


This sounds an awful lot like how people used to defend racial segregation in the United States.


----------



## jimbo13 (Jul 28, 2021)

Lacius said:


> This sounds an awful lot like how people used to defend racial segregation in the United States.








I see no difference in quality of life between socially engineered government mandated segregation and government mandated diversity.

I rather people make up their own minds and foster communities they went to live in,  The elderly legally discriminate against the young because they want to live in a community of shared experience. Nothing wrong with that choice, what is wrong is the government making it for you.


----------



## djpannda (Jul 28, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I see no difference in quality of life between socially engineered government mandated segregation and government mandated diversity.
> 
> I rather people make up their own minds and foster communities they went to live in,  The elderly legally discriminate against the young because they want to live in a community of shared experience. Nothing wrong with that choice, what is wrong is the government making it for you.


Then you are in favor for COVID passports “socially engineered government mandated segregation”.. Jimbo you changed lol


----------



## Deleted User (Jul 28, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Literally every Marxist/leftist on the planet knows that corporations aren't our friends, it's cute that you thought you were teaching me something new here.  I do appreciate your admission that modern capitalism has plenty of problems, though.
> 
> 
> Not sure what the discussion has to do with religion, but I'm agnostic precisely because we can't know the unknowable.  I dig and very much identify with the concept of FF7's lifestream, but can I say for certain that's how the afterlife works?  Of course not.  I see the commitment to any one man-made religion as similarly ridiculous, as they're just stories built upon and remixed from older stories.  I also think both the Egyptian and Viking mythologies are neat, as an aside.



I don't like how you say Marxist/leftist like it's singular, but we are reaching civil territory - which I appreciate.  Of course it has flaws - mostly because of the Government (i.e. too big to fail, mil industrial complex - for defense contracting I did, I honestly did double-takes looking at the orders. Like wtf? and I'm paying for this...? and the involvements we have now are based on lies, both historically and now!)

Marxist ideology is based off Atheism, that is why I mentioned religion. Lots of new archelogy digs in Israel are showing King David and Solomon have have had much larger kingdoms, casting doubt on what many to think is historic fact (I'm generally non-observant, I just think there's stuff going on we can't and won't understand. No ill will against agnostics, you admit science can't 100% explain certain aspects, which IMO (science) has turned into a religion in itself to some people. Glad you're not one. Lets keep it civil here out, eh?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> Then you are in favor for COVID passports “socially engineered government mandated segregation”.. Jimbo you changed lol



I think he may be refering to the segregated graduations happening at especially-woke universities/high schools, reversing what we thought was a good thing, rights equality.  And mandated job equality is giving people of lesser qualifications might be giving people jobs they absolutely can't perform.  Just a guess, since the only place I hear this 100% pro vax stuff is here after all the changes of face / goal posts moving faster than a football game.

Guys I talk to who live in the city I've noticed are very opposed to them, bc the advertising is so pushy, and have heard the rushed thing - which every Democrat said before the election i.e. "vaccine deadline impossible" - so  I understand and agree with them on that.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Jul 28, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I rather people make up their own minds and foster communities they went to live in,  The elderly legally discriminate against the young because they want to live in a community of shared experience. Nothing wrong with that choice, what is wrong is the government making it for you.


This reminds me of Williamsburg, NYC. There's 2 different sides to it and people of their own culture want to be with their own culture no matter how much people try to force cultures together.


----------



## D34DL1N3R (Jul 28, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I see no difference in quality of life between socially engineered government mandated segregation and government mandated diversity.
> 
> I rather people make up their own minds and foster communities they went to live in,  The elderly legally discriminate against the young because they want to live in a community of shared experience. Nothing wrong with that choice, what is wrong is the government making it for you.



No you need to correct your imagination and whatever voice in your head your arguing with.


----------



## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 29, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> That's insulting and unfair to traditional Liberals, the under 30 progressive marxists on this site biggest motivation in life is state funding of genital removal and have little in common with liberals.
> 
> Their motto should be _"Authoritarianism or someone's feelings might get hurt"._



Real Liberals that used to believe in smaller Government and personal freedoms are long gone. Any remaining ones from the turn of the century are attacked and eaten by their own kind. I don't find the Liberals here on this site any different then ones on all of the other sites I visit. I mean, they all repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I just rather not deal with the amount of stupid that comes along with discussing topics with baby killing USA hating racist piles of shit. I'm fine with discussing topics with people that aren't part of some borderline cult.


----------



## Dakitten (Jul 29, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Real Liberals that used to believe in smaller Government and personal freedoms are long gone. Any remaining ones from the turn of the century are attacked and eaten by their own kind. I don't find the Liberals here on this site any different then ones on all of the other sites I visit. I mean, they all repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I just rather not deal with the amount of stupid that comes along with discussing topics with baby killing USA hating racist piles of shit. I'm fine with discussing topics with people that aren't part of some borderline cult.



IRONY INTENSIFIES!


----------



## notimp (Jul 31, 2021)

Functional logic behind this sort of argument.
"I might have it bad in my life - but as long as there still is a group of people that has it worse - I can feel better."

"Young people educated in the US, should be deported - before they can finish their education, or before they can take jobs (which might produce more jobs, btw - usually thats the case with second generation migrants)".

Or alternatively, "but they are illegals, and I only want justice and truth" and therefore I support a judges decision.

OP didnt give us his reasoning, for the joy he is experiencing.

Problem with this: We did tell you prior, that probably one of the main legacies the Trump presidency produced was their Judicial Appointments:



> JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS
> Trump wasn’t happy when judges he appointed ruled against his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results, but his reshaping of the judiciary in a conservative direction is still one of his biggest legacies.
> 
> During his four years in office, he appointed three Supreme Court justices, the first time that has been done since President Richard Nixon appointed four in his first term. The court now has a rock-solid 6-3 conservative majority.





> Trump can thank Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who made judicial nominations a priority, for his ability to appoint not just Supreme Court justices Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett but also dozens of lower court judges.
> 
> Trump appointed 54 judges to the influential appeals courts, just one fewer than his Democratic predecessor Barack Obama managed in eight years and almost a third of the total number.
> 
> (For a graphic showing Trump’s impact on federal appeals courts, click tmsnrt.rs/2PPsGtM)





> Trump also named 174 district court judges, the lowest rung on the federal judicial ladder, making up about a quarter of the total number of judges now serving on those courts.



src: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-legacy-policy-explainer-idUSKBN29O16C

Those people, are now going to work.

edit: In Concept, as Hannen was appointed by Bush, and looks like this: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Hanen#:~:text=the nomination lapsed.-,District court service,who had assumed senior status.

edit: Partly good news, he stopped new applicants from getting into the program, but didnt rule to push back older ones:


> In a 77-page ruling, U.S. District Court Judge Andrew Hanen found that DACA is unlawful and that the Department of Homeland Security can no longer approve new applicants into the program, which has granted work permits and protection from deportation to more than 600,000 young immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
> 
> The court order does not “require DHS or the Department of Justice to take any immigration, deportation, or criminal action against any DACA recipient, applicant, or any other individual that it would not otherwise take,” Hanen wrote in the ruling.


https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/16/texas-federal-judge-daca-applicants-499896

Thats the - the US wont be shooting themselves in the foot immediately part - as educated migrant children usually produce more jobs.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> By definition, evolution by natural selection isn't design. I'd be curious to know how you reached the conclusion that anything about the human genome is designed.



It's really something to see how many people have done large amounts of DMT (100mg+ perfect hit) and are still devoid of any spirituality. Rather than explain why I came to these conclusions (in brief, holding a friends hand as he went cold after being take off life support,  and spending a great deal of time working w/ biololigists in the mid-late 90s), here is why the man who is credited w/ the discovery of DNA went from agnostic to absolute believer. 

https://www.everystudent.com/wires/is-god-real.html

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> Functional logic behind this sort of argument.
> "I might have it bad in my life - but as long as there still is a group of people that has it worse - I can feel better."
> 
> "Young people educated in the US, should be deported - before they can finish their education, or before they can take jobs (which might produce more jobs, btw - usually thats the case with second generation migrants)".
> ...



Judging people's looks, then claiming it's a good idea to let  foreigners come here, get educated here, then stay here the rest of their lives and take jobs that citizens could have had. But w/ white people obsessing over identity all day, defending every opinion except that 'it's ok to be white and it doesn't mean you are racist' - I hope family lines like these - the wokes - die out sooner than later. 

You also need to grow big enough balls to say "black people have a serious culture problem", which sure isn't happening outside of small circles of friends and places of worship.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> It's really something to see how many people have done large amounts of DMT (100mg+ perfect hit) and are still devoid of any spirituality.


Drugs provide different experiences for different people.  With DMT you're just as likely to end up with temporary impostor syndrome or the feeling that we're living in a simulation.  Though I suppose the latter is kind of a point where spirituality, science, and technology all intersect.



eastwald said:


> Judging people's looks, then claiming it's a good idea to let foreigners come here, get educated here, then stay here the rest of their lives and take jobs that citizens could have had.


Unless you're a Native American, we're all immigrants to this land, bud.  Corporations that choose to hire undocumented workers at half of minimum wage were never gonna consider hiring anybody else for those positions.  The only surefire solution to that is severe punishments for the capitalists on top of the pyramid, and a path to citizenship for the workers on bottom so that they can no longer be exploited.



eastwald said:


> You also need to grow big enough balls to say "black people have a serious culture problem", which sure isn't happening outside of small circles of friends and places of worship.


Oh yeah, it takes _real_ balls to rant to your all-white church group about how black people are the cause of all your problems and all of America's problems.  

Sorry, but so long as the media and capitalist propaganda is so easily able to keep you divided against people of the same economic status, _you're_ the culture problem.  Just another useful idiot for the ruling class to keep attached to puppet strings.


----------



## notimp (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Judging people's looks, then claiming it's a good idea to let foreigners come here, get educated here, then stay here the rest of their lives and take jobs that citizens could have had.


Depends, but actually yes. Jobs are not a finite market. If you have more demand (i.e. growing society), more jobs will be created. If you get people educated, they will "finance" more jobs via income, taxes, economic action they are taking... (i.e. they will employ other people too).

In a working society, refugees or migrants actually dont take away from economic activity, they add to it. There are limitations, like what if they arent getting jobs, because they couldnt integrate, but in general they add to society - especially, if they are fleeing from warzones far away, because, then its usually the rich and educated folks that make their way into the US.

So its never as simple as "they be taking me jobs".

Also usually they dont. (In the UK before Brexit maybe --). But usually many of them get a foothold in different sectors (low entry barriers, auxiliary jobs) in the beginning that ist.

So from the view of a state, its a higher initial investment to get them job ready, but starting with the second generation (their kids), they actually add to the economy.

If your economy is working of course...

If you let them rot in border towns, with no options, and people start to get the usual poverty malaises ("sicknesses" but less medical term  ), then no wonder that people get worried and angry looking at a bunch of them.

But usually speaking, and especially in the US economy - more "benefits money" just gets printed, because it ads to economic activity in the longer term.

To make sure 'usually' works, you need planning.

To make sure they dont come at all, you need cooperations with the american south. (Presuming you are talking mostly about people crossing the mexican border). Mostly in economic development. (Costs less there then in the US - important if you dont plan to upskill them, because US border communities only need a finite amount of fruitvendors (low barrier of entry jobs - that allow them to build a life). So the "job education" hump might be too steep/expensive for your economy - depending on several economic factors. But once that is sorted, or financed, its mostly plain sailing.

(edit: Maybe, not culturally - but economically. Old town gets new people > more people positive about the future of the town > investments flow > money flows into developments... People work for cheap, right? So its cheaper to build up stuff. (Higher profit margins, once you have it built. Then people may ask for more money, but lets say not above "union prices", so still cheap to build the stuff up, as an entrepreneur.)) If the economy is working. 

If you want to read more about that, here: https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD Migration Policy Debates Numero 2.pdf

Of course at every intersection something can go wrong, and problems may arise - Corporations f.e. might push for a higher influx of migrants, to get jobs in certain sectors fulfilled for less pay. If that is short term its usually a boost to that company (higher growth), if it is long term (money doesnt get invested back into their business), it becomes a problem, and the state needs to regulate. If most of your companies are in a "post growth" phase, (so already have invested and arent planning new investments anytime soon (lets say, because they are producing for export), and automation makes sure that you need higher job education to get your foot into the door, it might be easier to opt for a harsher migration policy - for a while) But in general more people wanting to be productive (work), usually (if there arent constraints that are hard to overcome) means economy will grow..)

The "they took me job" saying in general never held true. Statistically. In certain individual cases, of course it might.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> It's really something to see how many people have done large amounts of DMT (100mg+ perfect hit) and are still devoid of any spirituality.


One's experiences while their brain is drug-impaired isn't a good reason to think that a god, fairies, unicorns, UFO abductions, etc. exist.



eastwald said:


> Rather than explain why I came to these conclusions (in brief, holding a friends hand as he went cold after being take off life support


I'm sorry for your loss, but I am not sure how this is any reason to think a god or anything else supernatural exists. It is difficult to discern your exact point here, but it looks like you may be attempting an appeal to emotion, which is a logical fallacy.



eastwald said:


> and spending a great deal of time working w/ biololigists in the mid-late 90s


What about "working with biologists in the 90s" is rational justification for a god belief?



eastwald said:


> here is why the man who is credited w/ the discovery of DNA went from agnostic to absolute believer.
> 
> https://www.everystudent.com/wires/is-god-real.html


The argument appears to be that DNA is like a code, and therefore God exists, which isn't particularly convincing.

First, if DNA were a literal code, with an author and intelligent design, that wouldn't be evidence that a god exists. For all you know, for example, there is a species out there in the universe that arose through completely naturalistic processes who work similarly or differently to us, and then they made the code.

Second, DNA isn't literally a code. When we say it is like a code, that's an analogy to help people understand it better. There is nothing about DNA being analogous to a code or being complex that is evidence of intelligent design.

If DNA were an intelligently written code, it would probably be the shittiest and most inefficient code on this planet. There is ample evidence that the DNA of different species was "written" (that's another analogy) blindly over billions of years. It's filled with mistakes, inefficiencies, etc.



eastwald said:


> Judging people's looks, then claiming it's a good idea to let  foreigners come here, get educated here, then stay here the rest of their lives and take jobs that citizens could have had.


First, and getting back on topic, DACA isn't about immigrants coming here; it's about immigrants who are already here and have been here effectively their whole lives after being brought here as kids.

Second, not counting Native Americans, the United States is broadly a country if immigrants, and welcoming immigrants has always been one of our guiding principles (with exceptions, of course).

Third, there's apparently a labor shortage here, particularly for menial jobs. However, there is also a demand for skilled labor too. There's very little downside, if any, to immigration broadly. Your nationalistic views betray what the United States stands for, and they betray your immigrant ancestors.



eastwald said:


> You also need to grow big enough balls to say "black people have a serious culture problem", which sure isn't happening outside of small circles of friends and places of worship.


That's an overgeneralized, unsubstantiated, and overtly racist statement. It sounds like you're perhaps demeaning a marginalized group of people and blaming them for your problems. There's a long history of that in the United States.



eastwald said:


> But w/ white people obsessing over identity all day, defending every opinion except that 'it's ok to be white and it doesn't mean you are racist' - I hope family lines like these - the wokes - die out sooner than later.


I don't think anybody is saying it isn't okay to be white. What isn't okay though is ignoring one's privilege being white, particularly when it comes to how white people built their wealth largely off the backs of people of color and by keeping them down with oppressive policies.


----------



## Exidous (Aug 28, 2021)

Lacius said:


> What isn't okay though is ignoring one's privilege being white, particularly when it comes to how white people built their wealth largely off the backs of people of color and by keeping them down with oppressive policies





Lacius said:


> That's an overgeneralized, unsubstantiated, and overtly racist statement. It sounds like you're perhaps demeaning a marginalized group of people and blaming them for your problems.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 29, 2021)

It isn't racist, nor is it overgeneralized or unsubstantiated, to acknowledge slavery and racial oppression in US history and how they directly contributed to the racial inequalities that exist today.
It is not demeaning to white people to acknowledge how the broad income inequalities in this country occurred.
It was an interesting try at a gotcha, but it wasn't a particularly good one.


----------



## Exidous (Aug 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It isn't racist, nor is it overgeneralized or unsubstantiated, to acknowledge slavery and racial oppression in US history and how they directly contributed to the racial inequalities that exist today.


But that's not what you said. You personalized it. "one's privilege." The entire point of the privilege narrative is to place generalized blame on individuals in a group, despite the absence of individual fault (or even action). It is wrong for the same reason and in precisely the same way the modern, diluted meaning of "racism": you [individual person] are bad because [other people like you - not you - did/are something]. 

It was a lot better when leftists in this country were liberal.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 29, 2021)

Exidous said:


> But that's not what you said. You personalized it. "one's privilege." The entire point of the privilege narrative is to place generalized blame on individuals in a group, despite the absence of individual fault (or even action). It is wrong for the same reason and in precisely the same way the modern, diluted meaning of "racism": you [individual person] are bad because [other people like you - not you - did/are something].
> 
> It was a lot better when leftists in this country were liberal.


Acknowledging one's privilege isn't to say you're "to blame" or "bad." That isn't what that means, so it isn't analogous with racism.


----------



## Exidous (Aug 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Acknowledging one's privilege isn't to say you're "to blame" or "bad." That isn't what that means, so it isn't analogous with racism.


Anything you have to (or are being made to) apologize for is bad.

The net effect on society is identical. You [member of a group] are responsible for/defined by [actions attributed to the group].

"what it means" to the people pushing it is contrived. What it does, and how it functions, is the relevant measure.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 29, 2021)

Exidous said:


> Anything you have to (or are being made to) apologize for is bad.
> 
> The net effect on society is identical. You [member of a group] are responsible for/defined by [actions attributed to the group].
> 
> "what it means" to the people pushing it is contrived. What it does, and how it functions, is the relevant measure.


There's a difference between checking one's privilege and apologizing for it. I suggest you do some reading on the topic, because you seem confused.


----------



## Exidous (Aug 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There's a difference between checking one's privilege and apologizing for it. I suggest you do some reading on the topic, because you seem confused.


Do you deny people are being told/asked to apologize for their privilege in "antiracism training"?


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## Lacius (Aug 29, 2021)

Exidous said:


> Do you deny people are being told/asked to apologize for their privilege in "antiracism training"?


I have nothing to do with "antiracism training," good or bad, and it's irrelevant to anything I've said.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Aug 29, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> Real *conservatives* that used to believe in smaller Government, *weren't full blown fascists *and believed in *actual states rights (not just as an excuse for subjugating minorities) * and personal freedoms are long gone. Any remaining ones from the turn of the century like *Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney *are attacked and eaten by their own kind *for not goose-stepping in line*. *Most of the time, *I don't find the *conservatives *here on this site any different then ones on all of the other sites I visit. I mean, they all repeat the same nonsense from *OAN *and *Fox News *over and over again. I just rather not deal with the amount of stupid that comes along with discussing topics with *racist, facist alt-right embracing seditious *piles of shit. I'm fine with discussing topics with people that aren't part of some borderline cult of *Trump*.



oh man you're so, so close.... so I just spelled the fucking thing out for you.


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## Exidous (Aug 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I have nothing to do with "antiracism training," good or bad, and it's irrelevant to anything I've said.


Mhm, you aren't responsible for your fellow travelers, you just endorse, support, and repeat exactly what they say. I await your condemnation of such "antiracism training" tactics as insisting people apologize if you care to contest the point.

But I'll humor you too, let's look at the actual thing you said here:



Lacius said:


> What isn't okay though is ignoring one's privilege being white


The only privilege that can come from "being white" is expressly based on racial group.



Lacius said:


> how white people built their wealth


Which white people, which wealth? Surely, not the body of _all white people_ and which you expressly referred to in the preceding statement?



Lacius said:


> largely off the backs of people of color and by keeping them down with oppressive policies


So, still "all white people" then?

I apologize for implying that your statement was the equivalent of the modern, diluted meaning of racism. It's actually classic, old school racism: individuals are expressly responsible for the actions or accused failings of the group in which they are identified. You visit the sins of the father on the child, but more than that, you visit your prejudices against the race on the member.


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## Lacius (Aug 29, 2021)

Exidous said:


> Mhm, you aren't responsible for your fellow travelers, you just endorse, support, and repeat exactly what they say. I await your condemnation of such "antiracism training" tactics as insisting people apologize if you care to contest the point.
> 
> But I'll humor you too, let's look at the actual thing you said here:
> 
> ...


Racial privilege exists, and it's only racist to deny that fact. I've already addressed if the child is responsible for the sins of the father (they aren't). However, people need to check their privilege and work towards a more just and equitable society.


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## Exidous (Aug 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Racial privilege exists, and it's only racist to deny that fact.


That'd be a neat trick.

Here let me try: communism is dangerous and evil, and it's only communist to deny that fact. 

Meh, sounds ridiculous. 



Lacius said:


> I've already addressed if the child is responsible for the sins of the father (they aren't)


Then in what sense does the child have privilege stemming from their:



Lacius said:


> privilege being white, particularly when it comes to how white people built their wealth largely off the backs of people of color and by keeping them down with oppressive policies



They have it, but they're not responsible for it? That couldn't be it, because you _just said_ 



Lacius said:


> However, people need to check their privilege



Oh well.



Lacius said:


> and work towards a more just and equitable society.


Equality of outcomes (what you and yours mean when you say "equity") is nearly the opposite of equality under the law. At some point the drivers of the left decided that (differently targeted) racism was the solution for past racism. It's not going to work out for you though. And as usual, you will continue to hurt the people you purport to care about even more than what the effect of complete apathy* would be.

*which you accuse others of having, on the rare occasion you aren't accusing them of being racists. Perhaps, given the whole privilege narrative racism and apathy are indistinguishable to you. As a thought experiment,_ just how wrong_ do you think MLK was?


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## Lacius (Aug 29, 2021)

Exidous said:


> That'd be a neat trick.
> 
> Here let me try: communism is dangerous and evil, and it's only communist to deny that fact.
> 
> ...


It is possible to be born with privilege without being responsible for it; that's generally how it works. However, that doesn't excuse pretending the privilege doesn't exist. Endorsing and maintaining the inequitable system is the wrongdoing, not having the privilege in the first place. That seems to be where your mistake lies.

Edit: This topic of conversation is beginning to feel less and less relevant to the topic of this thread. If you want to continue this conversation, I'd recommend posting a relevant thread or sending me a PM. However, I'd recommend reading up on the topic of racial privilege beforehand, since you keep presenting strawman representations of what "privilege" means.


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## Exidous (Aug 29, 2021)

Lacius said:


> This topic of conversation is beginning to feel less and less relevant to the topic of this thread. If you want to continue this conversation, I'd recommend posting a relevant thread or sending me a PM. However, I'd recommend reading up on the topic of racial privilege beforehand, since you keep presenting strawman representations of what "privilege" means.


By appearances, your accusation of racism is what ended this thread, before I pointed it out.

You must think you persuade people, when all you really do is shut them down and piss them off. It's a shame that you're expending the real social impact accusations of racism (used to have) in such a ridiculous manner though. Like I said though, the root goes back further. As soon as the left in the U.S. gave up on liberalism, it was over.


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## subcon959 (Aug 30, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Racial privilege exists, and it's only racist to deny that fact.


What a ridiculous statement. As someone who has been the victim of actual racism for over 40 years I find your use of "racist" extremely offensive. Yes racial privilege exists, but it is not "racist" to deny its existence. It's frivolous usage like that is the reason the meaning of true racism has been diluted so much these days.


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## Lacius (Aug 30, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> What a ridiculous statement. As someone who has been the victim of actual racism for over 40 years I find your use of "racist" extremely offensive. Yes racial privilege exists, but it is not "racist" to deny its existence. It's frivolous usage like that is the reason the meaning of true racism has been diluted so much these days.


It is indeed racist to pretend to be colorblind and act as though racism and its effects don't exist.


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## Exidous (Aug 30, 2021)

We need to get this man a "if you're not with us, you're against us" banner. 

Who in the world said _racism _doesn't exist?


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## Dakitten (Aug 30, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> What a ridiculous statement. As someone who has been the victim of actual racism for over 40 years I find your use of "racist" extremely offensive. Yes racial privilege exists, but it is not "racist" to deny its existence. It's frivolous usage like that is the reason the meaning of true racism has been diluted so much these days.


What a ridiculous statement. As someone who has been the victim of actual racism and sexual harassment for almost 40 years, I find your attitude on the topic to be cringey as all fluff. Racism doesn't have to be a lynch mob or the refusal of rights, and your marginalizing things doesn't represent the views of the groups you purport to be representing.



Exidous said:


> By appearances, your accusation of racism is what ended this thread, before I pointed it out.
> 
> You must think you persuade people, when all you really do is shut them down and piss them off. It's a shame that you're expending the real social impact accusations of racism (used to have) in such a ridiculous manner though. Like I said though, the root goes back further. As soon as the left in the U.S. gave up on liberalism, it was over.



I suppose if you don't like it here, you have the freedom to leave?


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## SG854 (Aug 30, 2021)

As a marginalized person who is reading the comments of a marginalized person addressing the comments of a marginalized person who is marginalizing the topic of marginalized groups all I can say that racism is a thing that exists for some people and doesn't exist for others.


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## Exidous (Aug 31, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> I suppose if you don't like it here, you have the freedom to leave?


I meant the left was over in this country. Liberalism was the thing that it actually shared with the ideological underpinnings of America. 

Having forsaken that, you of the left are thoroughly un-American, ideologically speaking.


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## Dakitten (Aug 31, 2021)

Exidous said:


> I meant the left was over in this country. Liberalism was the thing that it actually shared with the ideological underpinnings of America.
> 
> Having forsaken that, you of the left are thoroughly un-American, ideologically speaking.



Considering that the left very often makes up the majority of the US population, wouldn't that make the right thoroughly "un-American" in a democracy? Countries that don't evolve die, and the USA was built to be an evolving democracy with the ability to amend the constitution and for judges and states to be able to address local issues more efficiently than at a federal level (within reason). If you don't like what the will of the people leans towards, though... there's the door?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/343976/quarterly-gap-party-affiliation-largest-2012.aspx


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## Exidous (Aug 31, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Considering that the left very often makes up the majority of the US population


That has never happened. The ideological left is at most, ever, a quarter of the country. The Democrats are a political coalition, not a homogeneous ideological force.



Dakitten said:


> wouldn't that make the right thoroughly "un-American" in a democracy?


Maybe, if this was a democracy and not a constitutional republic replete with provisions that block the left's designs. Thank the founders.



Dakitten said:


> Countries that don't evolve die, and the USA was built to be an evolving democracy with the ability to amend the constitution and for judges and states to be able to address local issues more efficiently than at a federal level (within reason)


I actually agree with everything you just said (other than quibbling with your emphasis on democracy). Our "evolution" is rather slow by design, wouldn't you admit? Compared to say, the vast majority of republics and democracies in the world which are parliamentary. 



Dakitten said:


> If you don't like what the will of the people leans towards, though... there's the door?


I just wish yours would follow through on the repeated promises to move to Canada when you lose the next one.


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## subcon959 (Aug 31, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> What a ridiculous statement. As someone who has been the victim of actual racism and sexual harassment for almost 40 years, I find your attitude on the topic to be cringey as all fluff. Racism doesn't have to be a lynch mob or the refusal of rights, and your marginalizing things doesn't represent the views of the groups you purport to be representing.


What group did I purport to represent? You're talking out of your arse as usual, and unlike your facetious wordplay my response was a genuine emotion I felt towards something that was posted. Then again, based on your post history compassion isn't one of your strong points is it?


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## Dakitten (Aug 31, 2021)

Exidous said:


> That has never happened. The ideological left is at most, ever, a quarter of the country. The Democrats are a political coalition, not a homogeneous ideological force.


And the Republicans make up less than that... and get less votes... despite having greater party turnout. Ergo... sorry, chief.




> Maybe, if this was a democracy and not a constitutional republic replete with provisions that block the left's designs. Thank the founders.


Ah, a fundamentalist~ I prefer not to celebrate wealthy genocidal slave owners as the mythological god-founders of the republic, but I am pretty certain we utilize a representative democracy as our vector for representing we, the people... But I will yield, I hear "spread a republic!", and not democracy, all the time when politicians talk about American values! And we certainly don't have a dominant dem presence in the House and Senate because that would just be lunacy like the founders never would have wanted! 




> I actually agree with everything you just said (other than quibbling with your emphasis on democracy). Our "evolution" is rather slow by design, wouldn't you admit? Compared to say, the vast majority of republics and democracies in the world which are parliamentary.


I would strongly disagree, actually. It has started to slow down, but amendments and local laws evolve fairly rapidly as needed. It certainly could be faster with uniformity, but some silly gerbils deadlocked the federal government into actually doing nothing for a while now and tribalizing into anti science while the world heats up.




> I just wish yours would follow through on the repeated promises to move to Canada when you lose the next one.



You first, comrade. I actually served this country, and continue to work to better it as a civilian.



subcon959 said:


> What group did I purport to represent? You're talking out of your arse as usual, and unlike your facetious wordplay my response was a genuine emotion I felt towards something that was posted. Then again, based on your post history compassion isn't one of your strong points is it?


Honestly, I don't know who you're trying to represent, but I don't think you were representing anyone well or in good faith. I actually tend to rally for compassionate humanitarian causes, so I am not quite sure what you are referencing, but I am not too worried about justifying myself on this board to everyone who aggressively disagrees with me.


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## Exidous (Sep 1, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> And the Republicans make up less than that... and get less votes... despite having greater party turnout. Ergo... sorry, chief.


So, that same thing you said again, without considering anything I said. Got it.



Dakitten said:


> Ah, a fundamentalist~


It's called "rule of law" when we follow what the law says instead of your feelings. But I certainly understand your preference for your feelings, it just means you lack the rational capacity for self government.



Dakitten said:


> I prefer not to celebrate wealthy genocidal slave owners as the mythological god-founders of the republic


I agree that you do not celebrate them, and evidently have to slander better men because their ideas are incompatible with yours.

America is fundamentally broken and evil from the perspective of your philosophy. You should leave it for somewhere that better approximates your values.

See, unlike you, Americans don't have a better option. Leftists like you have got all kinds of socialist countries to flee to: Venezuela if you like it warm, North Korea if you like it cold. Nowhere if you like food and toilet paper but hey, sacrifices must be made for the greater good, right?



Dakitten said:


> And we certainly don't have a dominant dem presence in the House and Senate


You certainly don't. You're crowing about a Senate majority of 0 and a House majority of what is it, a dozen? And that's taking credit for the ever-imperfect vehicle the Democratic Party is for the left. If that's all you could muster against the Republicans with Trump at the top of the ticket during a pandemic, you're pretty fucked.



Dakitten said:


> because that would just be lunacy like the founders never would have wanted


They built a system that would restrain transitory majorities not prevent them entirely. Are you being obtuse on purpose?



Dakitten said:


> I would strongly disagree, actually.


But not based on anything objective, apparently. It would have taken a parliamentary majority for Jeremy Corbyn to do to Britain what you want to do to America. It takes 60 votes in the Senate, a House majority, the Presidency, and a majority of your toadies on the Supreme Court to ignore the Constitution, at the same time, to do that here. God bless the founders. You're right to seethe at their effective restraints on your designs.



Dakitten said:


> You first, comrade


Conservatives don't make promises to leave America with regularity like leftists do....



Dakitten said:


> I actually served this country, and continue to work to better it as a civilian.


I could accuse you of stolen valor, but I'm pretty sure they dropped their standards to 0 under Obama, so it's not impossible. Still, my best theory is approximately (at 1:52):


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