# Pachter Predicts Nintendo Will ‘Dreamcast Itself’ with Wii U



## heartgold (Mar 13, 2012)

> 'I think that if in fact it’s a lot like an Xbox 360 in terms of graphics, frame rate and control scheme, then it’s probably not going to sell well unless it’s priced a lot cheaper, and I don’t think they’re launching the console at $150. So, yeah I think they are about to Dreamcast themselves. I don’t think Wii U is going to be as popular as probably Nintendo thinks it’s going to be.





> Question is, what does Nintendo do next, and I don’t know the answer yet. Let’s see how Wii U sells, and *I’m not going to predict this demise until I know pricing and features.* When I know more about it, I’ll offer a better opinion.'












Read read the whole article at http://www.nintendol..._could_struggle

The highlighted sentence says it all about this guy


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## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 13, 2012)

Sounds like bullshit to me. Should be in general gaming discussion.


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## DarkStriker (Mar 13, 2012)

Dreamcast wasn't a failure! People just failed to see the hidden jewel!


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 13, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> Dreamcast wasn't a failure! People just failed to see the hidden jewel!



It sure wasn't. The reason why it didn't continue was because of internal problems within Sega, which led to its demise. From observations, Nintendo does not have that problem (or not nearly as bad).


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## NeoGohan (Mar 13, 2012)

If Pachter says that the WiiU is going to fail, it means that is going to be the most successful console ever


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## prowler (Mar 13, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> It sure wasn't. The reason why it didn't continue was because of internal problems within Sega, which led to its demise. From observations, Nintendo does not have that problem (or not nearly as bad).


They jumped because Okawa wanted SEGA to be a software company.
http://bitmob.com/articles/qaa-former-sega-president-on-dreamcasts-failure-pranks-against-sony-his-ouster


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## emigre (Mar 13, 2012)

People actually care about Pachter?


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## indask8 (Mar 13, 2012)

System isn't out yet and Nintendo has much more money than sega at the time.

Sega was dying (and Sony pulled the plug with the PS2) but the Dreamcast wasn't the reason, this console was a real gem (and actually selling very well near the end with the price drops), Shenmue blown me away, what an amazing game, and it wasn't the only one (jet set radio, pso, crazy taxi, doa etc....)


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## Midna (Mar 13, 2012)

When are people going to stop posting this retard's financial advice
He's always, always wrong and yet he presents everything he says about the future as an absolute fact, as if he's some sort of oracle


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## Wizerzak (Mar 13, 2012)

Lol, you wish Pachter.

It will only fail if articles like this keeps popping up telling people not to buy it (like anyone would listen anyway).


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## Tom Bombadildo (Mar 13, 2012)

Suprgamr232 said:


> Sounds like bullshit to me. Should be in general gaming discussion.EoF


Man, I had to fix my own post.


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## Yuan (Mar 13, 2012)




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## X_XSlashX_X (Mar 13, 2012)

I wonder if Pachter gets off on trying to bring Nintendo down. I mean it seems these days that's all hes talking about is the WiiU. Maybe he secretly loves it and hates himself for it and so therefore tries to say anything negative about it.


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## Deleted User (Mar 13, 2012)

Pachter's a troll, but yeah


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 13, 2012)

So far, what he says about Nintendo brings about the opposite. I hate to be in the shoes of those he praises.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 13, 2012)

I am not entirely sure why people are so down on this guy (well I probably do but I am playing the optimist at this point in time) and I said most of what I felt like saying in the last thread concerning him although I will reiterate that sadly it is not always sales and such that dictate share price ( http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Nintendo_%28NTDOY%29 ) which is what this guy is concerned with/paid to look at the future of with an eye to advising others on the matter.
Still I can see his logic and although I would like it not to be the case (if the wii u can edge out the other two and gain the best multiplat versions of games and maybe a few nice exclusives I will want to be there for it for the couple of years until Sony or MS release and make viable their next entries) competing against entrenched opponents is rarely a brilliant idea and especially if people looking at your business model are calling for you to try to make large amounts of growth.

As for the dreamcast if the item you intend as your main profit making venture fails to make enough money to sustain your company that would count as a failure.


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## Gh0sti (Mar 13, 2012)

i think nintendo will do just ok i cant wait to see patcher be proved wrong again by his miscalculations


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## SanoKeo (Mar 13, 2012)

Sega dreamcast had everything to be one leader on it's generation, pretty cook graphics, internet conection, but still, Internal sega problems, low third party support (Yeah I know it has MvC2 and that stuff but that wasn't enough), low distribution, and That's what it killed it...

Now, nintendo is getting a lot of third party support, renewing internet service, a pretty cool piece of hardware that supports (Same as xbox? well, talking about HD or FullHD a lot of people thinks that its the same or almost the same, Well, shit that, I wanna see a Xbox 360 Rendering all the stuff in the video preview that we Saw at E3...),  and going for some new concepts like the controller that we still don't know what we can do with it yet (Yeah we know the basics, but remember when the wii mote was shown? It looked like crap, at least to me, now it's pretty cool, not for usual games but it's a cool piece of hardware and there's a lot of posibilities now, like Okami, Zelda Skywarsword, Xenoblade, etc), and well, let's just wait for it to come out.

We cannot say that Nintendo WiiU is gonna be the winner of it's next generation, but we cannot say it's gonna be nintendo's hardware failure, and remember, even if it's not as good as nintendo expects to be, If someone knows how to make a good comeback, it's nintendo.

Anyway, just because I love repetitions... I wonder why is people still talking about Patcher...  and Yet why is he still talking about... well about everything, He's no good at predicting anything. I'm not a nintendo hardcore fan, but he just suck at predicting.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 13, 2012)

Is it bad that I don't even know who this guy is?  One thing I wanted to point out: "Similar control scheme to 360" but...the 360 does not have a touchscreen...nor even the same type of controller.  How is it similar?  And with graphics, sorry guy, but graphics aren't going to get much better than this until we get some holograms running around.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 13, 2012)

If you do not follow stock markets or similar especially as pertaining to computer games then there is no shame at all in not knowing who he is (even if you did he is but one pundit among many). Beyond his immediate professional duties he has a couple of game related shows over on gametrailers and appears on various news segments (usually only video news) if they need someone to talk to that should know computer games and financial markets but again gametrailers is up there with gamefaqs in terms of places to use but avoid hanging around.

As for graphics there are a few things in the pipeline but yeah I would agree as far as the man in the street is concerned we are probably going to see some rapidly diminishing returns from here on in which I hold is a good thing (it reminds me of the processor speed wars which is to say glad it happened but today seems a bit quaint) as we might see budgets to do damage fall a bit and some efforts in the actual making nice art as well as "realism".

Regarding controls are we not done with seeing companies largely forgo making motion control/touchscreen games (or maybe offering a token mechanic that uses them) in favour of using what remains of the traditional controls on those consoles?

Equally if I am not mistaken





Two thumbsticks, some triggers, two bumpers, same amount of buttons. Looks like a controller built to take on 360/playstation a like games to me.


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## awssk8er (Mar 13, 2012)

Nintendo has been in the game long enough to know what to do. 

Dreamcast wasn't a failure, in fact it was a great console. I don't think the WiiU will have the same path as the Dreamcast though.


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## Midna (Mar 13, 2012)

FAST6191 said:


> I am not entirely sure why people are so down on this guy (well I probably do but I am playing the optimist at this point in time) and I said most of what I felt like saying in the last thread concerning him although I will reiterate that sadly it is not always sales and such that dictate share price ( http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Nintendo_%28NTDOY%29 ) which is what this guy is concerned with/paid to look at the future of with an eye to advising others on the matter.
> Still I can see his logic and although I would like it not to be the case (if the wii u can edge out the other two and gain the best multiplat versions of games and maybe a few nice exclusives I will want to be there for it for the couple of years until Sony or MS release and make viable their next entries) competing against entrenched opponents is rarely a brilliant idea and especially if people looking at your business model are calling for you to try to make large amounts of growth.
> 
> As for the dreamcast if the item you intend as your main profit making venture fails to make enough money to sustain your company that would count as a failure.


Everyone who follows gaming news hates Patcher because the only statements he ever comes out with are to the effect that either (a) Nintendo will fail, or (b) smartphone gaming will take over and destroy the gaming market.

If he ever says anything else, it's almost to a similar flamebaiting effect. It's almost like he's trying to ignite controversy to get himself onto news sites.

Edit: And he hasn't been right so far


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## Gahars (Mar 13, 2012)

So Pachter makes a prediction and tons of people freak out; this old song and dance has gotten way too predictable.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2012)

FAST6191 said:


> Two thumbsticks, some triggers, two bumpers, same amount of buttons. Looks like a controller built to take on 360/playstation a like games to me.


Sliders, not sticks - that's Strike 1. Four shoulder buttons, but not one of them is an analog trigger, Strike 2. No Strike 3, fortunatelly - those are my only complaints, really. That, and I'm a bit worried that I'll be hitting the X/Y/A/B buttons with my palm while using the right analog slider, but I'll reserve my judgement of it until I actually get to hold it.


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## DrOctapu (Mar 13, 2012)

Pachter has always, always been full of shit.
Always.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 13, 2012)

I did consider questioning the use of the word hate and everybody but that would be much like calling someone on grammar/spelling despite them not deserving it.

Anyhow the previous thread I was referring to http://gbatemp.net/topic/321850-michael-pachter-defends-nintendo-in-disarray-claims/page__st__15 (probably should have linked that up earlier but hey). I would probably never buy the guy a beer but I am not prepared to dismiss his professional opinion just yet (now if you were to accuse him of retrofitting logic to news that I might see some debate in and equally I agree entirely he needs the exposure to maintain whatever semblance of authority he might have). Part of not being ready to dismiss him is I would agree Nintendo is not going a lot to ensure a good financial future to my eyes let alone a great one and mobile phone/browser/tablet stuff plays a large part in that and in the games industry in general (although I might call a similar split to what we see in educational games and "proper" games or even what we see now games rose up to compete with the music and film/tv world in terms of slice of fun stuff money).

@Foxi4 yeah I agree that might be reaching a bit but I still hold that any current non move/kinect playstation or 360 game could be adapted to that with relative ease. I did build a quick mockup back when it was announced and it held well even if it was a bit heavier than might be ideal. I probably should have also pondered what the other controllers will look like (assuming there is still just the one tablet and a bunch of lesser controllers).


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## CarbonX13 (Mar 13, 2012)

Didn't Pachter also predict the Wii and 3DS will be the demise of Nintendo?


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## Foxi4 (Mar 13, 2012)

FAST6191 said:


> @Foxi4 yeah I agree that might be reaching a bit but I still hold that any current non move/kinect playstation or 360 game could be adapted to that with relative ease. I did build a quick mockup back when it was announced and it held well even if it was a bit heavier than might be ideal. I probably should have also pondered what the other controllers will look like (assuming there is still just the one tablet and a bunch of lesser controllers).


Oh, games can definatelly be "adapted" to the controller, it's just my honest belief that a hardware company should do their best to make their console the best possible choice both for gamers and developers alike and to give developers access to the best, most comfortable and pleasant control schemes. Seeing that analog triggers were present on the Gamecube two generations ago, I don't see a reason as to why the WiiU should be stripped of them, ESPECIALLY since they became a standard last generation. I'm mainly thinking of games that require varied levels of pressure to manipulate objects, for example drifting and acceleration in racing games, opening slowly vs. kicking doors open in action games and so on and so forth. I sincerely hope that this will be one of those "last minute changes" and that they'll come to their senses about that. A touchscreen can only take you so far, analog gives you the tactile response you need.


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## YayMii (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm assuming that what this guy means is:
Wii U=amazing games, but overshadowed by the next PlayStation


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## Dr Eggman (Mar 13, 2012)

Nintendo is going to make the WiiU able to load backups out of the box?


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## mysticwaterfall (Mar 13, 2012)

People still listen to this guy? He said the Wii would finish dead last in the console race in terms of sales. He said the 3DS was "underpriced" at $250. If he had been around in '95 he would have said Nintendo would no longer be around after the N64.


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## SpaceJump (Mar 14, 2012)

Who's Pachter?


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## Janthran (Mar 14, 2012)

Until they release Zelda for it.
THROUGH DA ROOF


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## smile72 (Mar 14, 2012)

This is not news. Nobody cares what he thinks.


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## prowler (Mar 14, 2012)

smile72 said:


> This is not news. Nobody cares what he thinks.


Well this thread has hit page 3...


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## Fear Zoa (Mar 14, 2012)

Nintendo will be fine, they have a ton of money saved up even if it does fail. After all Nintendo has lived through a fail before (remember the virtual boy?) I'd say that Nintendo has the most powerful first party out of the three and they know that. Third party is important for Nintendo but its the first party that sells their consoles and as long as they have adequate  first party support on and after launch they it will probably sell well.


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## Midna (Mar 14, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> FAST6191 said:
> 
> 
> > Two thumbsticks, some triggers, two bumpers, same amount of buttons. Looks like a controller built to take on 360/playstation a like games to me.
> ...


Two strikes, maybe, but it all depends on whether Nintendo can make a hit with that screen, and the rest of the rubbish on that controller.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 14, 2012)

Midna said:


> Two strikes, maybe, but it all depends on whether Nintendo can make a hit with that screen, and the rest of the rubbish on that controller.



Personally the screen just seems like it'd just be used for inventory and menus, which never struck me as a problem that needed a solution in the first place. The rest of its uses seem to be basically what the DS (and now 3DS) screen is used for, like mini-games and crap, and I really wouldn't take touchscreen features and gameplay aspects ever in place of standard stick and buttons gameplay.

In the end if they just cut the screen and made the controller rather basic and maybe added top-notch motion controls then I'd look at the system a lot more favorably. Instead of just shotgunning new concepts I'd rather they focus on one and improve on it. Wii motion controlling was far from perfect, WM+ helped but it's still with issues. Give me a system that blows both the Move and Kinect out of the water and gives me motion controls without a SINGLE issue (no recalibration, little delay, very few restrictions) along with a standard control scheme so I can "play my way" then I'll be impressed.

It's kinda like in gaming. A good sequel takes the bad aspects of its predecessor and makes them good. A bad sequel abandons everything that could use fixing in favor of something new. It's why I like Mass Effect 2 a lot but really don't like No More Heroes 2, for instance. Nintendo is kinda doing the same with motion controls, just buying into the tablet craze/fad/trend/whatever instead of developing a frontier of motion controls that its competitors will look like children in comparison to.


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## Midna (Mar 14, 2012)

Frankly the DS and 3DS touch screens have been fantastically useful in a number of games. And hell, even if it ended up being used predominately for maps and manus, I would still be happy. I just finished Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia and went straight on to Symphony of the Night. I instantly noticed how much I needed the map on the DS top screen in OoE. That said, it's definitely going to be used for more than maps, what with baseball mode and all the motion control features.


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## Hells Malice (Mar 14, 2012)

Didn't we have a very long thread laughing at what a moron Patcher was for the last nugget of knowledge he bestowed upon any dumbass willing to listen to him?


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 14, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Didn't we have a very long thread laughing at what a moron Patcher was for the last nugget of knowledge he bestowed upon any dumbass willing to listen to him?



I think you should save this quote since you'll probably be able to post it for the next twenty Pachter threads.


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## Qtis (Mar 14, 2012)

Fear Zoa said:


> Nintendo will be fine, they have a ton of money saved up even if it does fail. After all Nintendo has lived through a fail before (remember the virtual boy?) I'd say that Nintendo has the most powerful first party out of the three and they know that. Third party is important for Nintendo but its the first party that sells their consoles and as long as they have adequate  first party support on and after launch they it will probably sell well.


The gaming market was a lot smaller back in the Virtual Boy days.. R&D costs a lot more now and it's pretty much a hit or miss for Nintendo if a console from them sinks. Nintendo is a gaming company and if they fail to achieve a good profit out of gaming, they'd be out of business in the long run. Not saying that it'll happen, but a few years of constant losses could make the company bankrupt. Especially if the losses are significant.

@OT: Pff.. Anything is possible. It's not like the prediction couldn't happen, but it's highly unlikely.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

SpaceJump said:


> Who's Pachter?


the biggest fuck-tard gfx whore analyst on the planet. and his *NEVER *RIGHT


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## Master Mo (Mar 14, 2012)

Tbh the technical advancement is not really there anymore. The PC is more powerful then the PS3 and the PS3 is more powerful then the 360 but the additional power of those systems doesn't effect gameplay in the slightest and that why the games are so port-able between those three systems, even though the horsepower is very different. That's just because the limitation of ressources and what developers can put into visuals are met, and that has nothing to do with what the system could be capable of. 

That is also why the 360, a nearly seven year old tech, is still participating in the market and doesn't show any performance-limiting issues. 

Now the graphical gab between the DC and PS2/GC/XBox or Wii and PS360 was so grave that there was no way for third party to just port games. 

This is why I think the term used here is not very true. I would say that the WiiU is 360-ing itself, since similar to the 360 games will look similar to PS360 games on WiiU and when the new consoles will be coming out the WiiU-games will naturally look better as well... Probebly Nintendo-titles could show the power of the system but as I said in this day and age power will not effect gameplay anymore...

So i don't think so...


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

Fuckhter doesn't realize than graphics and power are no longer the driving force of consoles and that the next gen consoles will pretty much be all identical due to graphics have reached their limits on what can be done for now.


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## Midna (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> Fuckhter doesn't realize than graphics and power are no longer the driving force of consoles and that the next gen consoles will pretty much be all identical due to graphics have reached their limits on what can be done for now.


You don't have a gaming PC do you


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

Midna said:


> Bladexdsl said:
> 
> 
> > Fuckhter doesn't realize than graphics and power are no longer the driving force of consoles and that the next gen consoles will pretty much be all identical due to graphics have reached their limits on what can be done for now.
> ...


have you even bothered to look at my sig? and even pc is reaching it's limits.


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## mysticwaterfall (Mar 14, 2012)

Agree with blade. We are in the law of diminishing returns right now and quickly reaching the limit. Graphics aren't going to get "wow" better until the new chip tech like 3d transistors and photonics come mainstream.


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## silver_ryder (Mar 14, 2012)

Patcher didn't predict anything, just answer a question of some Troll like him.

Hope that Nintendo keep the right price and balance on WiiU, 600€ console, no thank you, ill wait, but if launched for the price tag of 350€ at max ill be at home on launch day.

At this point and with the world economic speculation, no one ill buy expensive consoles, 3DS was expensive, PSP Vita is expensive


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

DarkStriker said:


> Dreamcast wasn't a failure! People just failed to see the hidden jewel!



I'd say this. It was too ahead of it's time, great games, but I think the thing that killed it worse was the easy piracy.

Anyways, Pachter is an idiot. Nobody should be taking him seriously. His opinions and guesses are no better than mine or anybody else on this site.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> DarkStriker said:
> 
> 
> > Dreamcast wasn't a failure! People just failed to see the hidden jewel!
> ...


Yeah, piracy was definatelly one of the factors that determined its fate, but we mustn't forget that SEGA should've released it with a DVD drive rather then dwell into GD-ROM's. The development of the console was rushed, they opted for the proprietary format because they didn't have enough time before the self-imposed deadline and promised to release a DVD add-on later on, although they never delivered.

SEGA simply chose to be a software company after all this, and this final decision was the last nail to the coffin, which is a shame because with the DVD add-on it could've lived on. It wouldn't beat the PS2, but it'd give them a modest profit at the very least. I mean, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi... Amazing games.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > DarkStriker said:
> ...



That's what I was forgetting. I couldn't remember the type of format they used. thx.

And the DC would have put up a fight. Could it have won? Nah, but it would've been a worthy contender. Especially since the definitive version of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was on the DC, that and tie in online and Phantasy Star, it would've been awesome to see the console really take off and show us what it could really do.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

> I'd say this. It was too ahead of it's time, great games, but I think the thing that killed it worse was the easy piracy.





> Yeah, piracy was definatelly one of the factors that determined its fate,


the wii is easily pirated yet it lived on must have been the sw keeping it a float


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> > I'd say this. It was too ahead of it's time, great games, but I think the thing that killed it worse was the easy piracy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No no, the Wii still requires a little work (by little, I mean very little). But it's still a lot more than what you had to do with the DC. With the DC, you just had to go online, burn the game to a CD-R, boom, already playable without any hacking or modding.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> Fuckhter doesn't realize than graphics and power are no longer the driving force of consoles and that the next gen consoles will pretty much be all identical due to graphics have reached their limits on what can be done for now.


No.

[yt]XiQweemn2_A[/yt]



ShadowSoldier said:


> No no, the Wii still requires a little work (by little, I mean very little). But it's still a lot more than what you had to do with the DC. With the DC, you just had to go online, burn the game to a CD-R, boom, already playable without any hacking or modding.


Not all DC's were like that - some wouldn't boot CD-R discs and needed a boot disc to actually launch pirate backup copies (introduced in late 2000)


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > No no, the Wii still requires a little work (by little, I mean very little). But it's still a lot more than what you had to do with the DC. With the DC, you just had to go online, burn the game to a CD-R, boom, already playable without any hacking or modding.
> ...



Ah, I wasn't aware. I just knew the one I had, it was able to do it no problem.


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## prowler (Mar 14, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> No no, the Wii still requires a little work (by little, I mean very little). But it's still a lot more than what you had to do with the DC. With the DC, you just had to go online, burn the game to a CD-R, boom, already playable without any hacking or modding.


>you just had to go online
>burn the game
>1999

you mean buy a boot legged copy.

unless you knew what you was really doing, around that time boot legged games/movies/etc was in demand.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Bladexdsl said:
> 
> 
> > Fuckhter doesn't realize than graphics and power are no longer the driving force of consoles and that the next gen consoles will pretty much be all identical due to graphics have reached their limits on what can be done for now.
> ...


good luck getting any of that into gaming in the next 10 years. not gawna happen!


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

prowler said:


> ShadowSoldier said:
> 
> 
> > No no, the Wii still requires a little work (by little, I mean very little). But it's still a lot more than what you had to do with the DC. With the DC, you just had to go online, burn the game to a CD-R, boom, already playable without any hacking or modding.
> ...


True, not everyone had access to the Internet or even a CD burner at that time.



Bladexdsl said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Bladexdsl said:
> ...


You're not familiar with Moore's Law are you? You probably didn't even watch the whole video. Since _1971 _the transistor count of CPU's doubled each two years. In fact, the advancements are getting faster and faster rather then slower.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

they can make the cpuz faster and faster all they want gfx these days won't change not for at least a decade anyway. next gen consoles will all be surprisingly similar only thing that will separate them will be features, the media they use and online capabilities.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> they can make the cpuz faster and faster all they want gfx these days won't change not for at least a decade anyway





> "_No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer - 640K ought to be enough for anybody._" ~Bill Gates, Microsoft, 1981



A decade ago there were people just like you who also thought that technology won't advance nearly as fast, and correct me if I'm wrong, were a little bit more well-versed in those matters.

Technology is not something you can control. It will just _advance_. It always has and it will never stop until we reach a barrier of physics preventing us from progressing, and then we'll start wondering how to break that barrier... and then we'll break it.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> they can make the cpuz faster and faster all they want gfx these days won't change not for at least a decade anyway. next gen consoles will all be surprisingly similar only thing that will separate them will be features, the media they use and online capabilities.



Actually, I think these days, people are relying more on effects instead of going for realism. I was watching a video for the new stuff from nVidia (i think it was nVidia) and they were showing a gunfight, and it had a soldier behind a cement barricade. The soldier was being shot at, and the cement was being blasted at. It was showing realistic damage like chunks coming off and flying, bullet holes that didn't disappear and everything. So I think graphics will change recently, all the time, but I think there are some things, that they've reached their max on.


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

the days of the consoles getting better and better graphically each gen are OVER. why do you think ninty is finally making a hd console of their own they KNOW this to be true.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> the days of the consoles getting better and better graphically each gen are OVER. why do you think ninty is finally making a hd console of their own they KNOW this to be true.


>Nintendo.
>Specialists in computer graphics.

Perhaps you should read up what NVidia and AMD have to say about this rather then reciting buisness decisions of a company that has never made a single GPU?


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## Bladexdsl (Mar 14, 2012)

amd and nvidia predict they'll do stuff all the time but half the time they don't do it. plus pc games never take advantage of the stuff since they just dumb down the game for consoles than port it to pc anyway!
we'll continue this discussion when all 3 next gen consoles are out but i know i will be right since 1080p and 60fps can't be improved for now at least a decade. and 3d gaming...please it'll never catch on it's too much of a headache...literately!


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## chyyran (Mar 14, 2012)

NeoGohan said:


> If Pachter says that the WiiU is going to fail, it means that is going to be the most successful console ever



This man is correct.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> amd and nvidia predict they'll do stuff all the time but half the time they don't do it. plus pc games never take advantage of the stuff since they just dumb down the game for consoles than port it to pc anyway!
> we'll continue this discussion when all 3 next gen consoles are out but i know i will be right since 1080p and 60fps can't be improved for now at least a decade. and 3d gaming...please it'll never catch on


That's a laughable approach given the overwhelming evidence showing that you are in fact wrong. Computer graphics will not stop advancing until they become indistinguishable from reality, it's not a theory, it's a fact.

We're on the verge of a new epoch with Intel and AMD, among others, working on Graphene-based SPU's, not to mention nano-tubes of carbon. Today's quad-cores will be laughable in comparison to CPU's that will come out in 10 years time, not to mention GPU's.


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## KingVamp (Mar 14, 2012)

If I understand, Moore's Law has a slow down points whether by cost,tech,r and d, etc, but will keep going 'till it hit the end.
Really doesn't matter tho with consoles since they fall 5-10years behind technology. I just believe that a one/two years as of now
in front of the wii u, the other consoles wouldn't advance so much in front of it whether the tech didn't increase fast enough or/and
the cost to the consumer. People already complain about $300.

Of course we get Quantum consoles far in the future someday. 

Oh yeah, the topic...
The sub topic is a better topic. 



Bladexdsl said:


> the days of the consoles getting better and better graphically each gen are OVER. why do you think ninty is finally making a hd console of their own they KNOW this to be true.


They didn't say or implied anything like that.
That isn't true and you know it.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> If I understand, Moore's Law has a slow down points whether by cost,tech,r and d, etc, but will keep going 'till it hit the end.
> Really doesn't matter tho with consoles since they fall 5-10years behind technology. I just believe that a one/two years as of now
> in front of the wii u, the other consoles wouldn't advance so much in front of it whether the tech didn't increase fast enough or/and
> the cost to the consumer. People already complain about $300.


This is another good reason to think that consoles will continue progressing - their hardware is "what PC's used to run on a few years back" except for the CPU's which are usually PowerPC-based rather then x32/x64 (more gaming-oriented).

With that in mind it is relatively accurate to assume that the next generation will not differ much price-wise and will be more capable then this one - the production technology has been improved times upon times and perfected for those models of GPU's/CPU's and you can count on increased performance at lower cost when 5 years have passed since the GPU debuted. Not only that, at first, GPU's have to "pay for their development" so the prices are inflated for the first few years.

Doesn't seem like there's anything in the way of consoles getting better and better, nu-uh.


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## DiscostewSM (Mar 14, 2012)

The advancement is still there, but the "wow" factor has been leveling out for some time.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> The advancement is still there, but the "wow" factor has been leveling out for some time.


That's only because games are usually "dumbed down" to be comparable on all platforms and relatively portable... but there's a new generation of hardware comming up, opening new doors to new possibilities.

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I see a bright future ahead of us. Will we suddenly recieve games with photorealistic graphics? No, of course not. There will be advancements though. First baby steps, then braver, more breathtaking ones. My only worries are development time and costs - I hope those will not hinder the way forward. I used to think they will, that progress at this point isn't necessary... but then I thought back to what I thought about the Gamecube back in the day, playing Bloody Roar - pretty much the same things.

Of course our graphics today look amazing to us, but will they tomorrow, or will they be just average? Only time can tell. Just cross your fingers and hope for the best.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

DiscostewSM said:


> The advancement is still there, but the "wow" factor has been leveling out for some time.



For me, the "wow" factor in a game's graphics disappeared after playing Final Fantasy X. IMO, that was the tip when games started to have the characters show emotion on their faces, and have the player actually see what they're feeling.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> DiscostewSM said:
> 
> 
> > The advancement is still there, but the "wow" factor has been leveling out for some time.
> ...


I think the focus is no longer on the characters nowadays - these can be animated using Motion Capture which is becoming more and more advanced. Nowadays people are more concerned with particle effects like water or flames. That, and matters of lighting and reflections. As you mentioned (I believe it was you) doesn't it look cool when a cement wall just crumbles into pieces? When dust flies all over the place, when bullet holes are actually "holes", not a texture pasted onto the walls? This is where we're heading.

The "differences" will no longer be visible so much in static scenery, not until we develop new kinds of materials. The "difference" will be visible in fluid motion of the world, in its structure, interactiveness and destructibility.


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## MMX (Mar 14, 2012)

All I see is "he's wrong", "he doesn't know what he's talking about", etc.why don't you elaborate more on why

Nintendo miscalculated the hype around their hardware  with 3D and 3DS. Remember when the 3DS was first announced? Now a lot of people play with 3D turned off - or it's not a selling point anymore for a lot of people. 
Now Tablets are in high demand but for how long until it'll be the same "nice to have" gimmick.

Supposedly the Wii U will launch for 299€ 
- probably a bit pricey for the mainstream - see Vita / 249€ 3DS. 
- 360/PS3 at a price point of 150€ very competitive
- this late into the lifecycle, hardcore gamers most likely already have a PS3 or 360.
- Nintendos online service is years behind, let's hope they'll catch up with Wii U

Don't get me wrong this is no "Nintendo is doomed" post. I'm just saying that he doesn't make stuff up out of thin air.


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## ShadowSoldier (Mar 14, 2012)

MMX said:


> All I see is "he's wrong", "he doesn't know what he's talking about", etc.why don't you elaborate more on why
> 
> Nintendo miscalculated the hype around their hardware  with 3D and 3DS. Remember when the 3DS was first announced? Now a lot of people play with 3D turned off - or it's not a selling point anymore for a lot of people.
> Now Tablets are in high demand but for how long until it'll be the same "nice to have" gimmick.
> ...



Yes he does. That's his job. If you really break it down, his job is to make guesses on what will happen for his investors. That's all. He does research just like us, and he's making guesses, that's it.


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## Hells Malice (Mar 14, 2012)

MMX said:


> All I see is "he's wrong", "he doesn't know what he's talking about", etc.why don't you elaborate more on why
> 
> Nintendo miscalculated the hype around their hardware  with 3D and 3DS. Remember when the 3DS was first announced? Now a lot of people play with 3D turned off - or it's not a selling point anymore for a lot of people.
> Now Tablets are in high demand but for how long until it'll be the same "nice to have" gimmick.
> ...



Your first point is invalid for an obvious reason. You compared the price of a home console, to two handhelds. Which by the way, the Wii U is rumoured to not even be much more expensive than either launched at.
Your second point was invalidated by your third point, and even then you'd be comparing last gen (well, still current gen at the moment) console prices to the first nextgen console price.
This late into the cycle, hardcore gamers own all 3 consoles, as to not miss any titles.
Nintendo's online service definitely needs work, but I doubt it's a make or break feature considering the wiis targeted audience.

As for the WiiU itself, the difference between 3D and the "tablet" controller, is that 3D is a useless gimmick that adds almost nothing to most games, where as a tablet controller actually opens up QUITE a bit of unique breathing room for games. I see it working out quite well, and them breaking away from the 99% motion control focus is really nice to see as well. Now only games that really need motion controls should get 'em.

The bottom line is, Patcher is a moron, and nothing he says should ever really be taken seriously.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 14, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> The bottom line is, Patcher is a moron, and nothing he says should ever really be taken seriously.


He was right _once_...



> "I was wrong about Red Dead (Redemption) (...) I suppose we should call them (Rockstar) visionaries (...) I have been sceptical [for] a long time, but they always believed that a Western, if done well, would sell well. It looks like they were right all along. Nobody can doubt that they made a great game. (...) Maybe after that comment, they'll finally send me a copy; they haven't sent me any games since I doubted whether Bully would sell well."


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