# Sony Sued for PSN Security Breach



## Zerosuit connor (Apr 27, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> A class action lawsuit was filed against Sony a day after the company publicly admitted that personal information from PlayStation Network was compromised by a security breach.
> The lawsuit was filed by the Rothken Law Firm today in a California court and alleges Sony "failed to take reasonable care to protect, encrypt, and secure the private and sensitive data."
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> Yesterday, Sony said it believes an unauthorized person obtained PSN user information, including members' names, addresses, birthdays, and login passwords. The company said there was no evidence that credit card information was stolen, but did not rule out that possibility.
> ...



That was Quick.
A copy of the complaint in PDF form can be viewed

Here.


Source


Sorry if the text is over to one side, I need to fix that in a little bit.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, that sucks, though I'm less than surprised.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

We ALL knew this was gonna happen, but only a day after they came clean. Damn.

I wonder if this really is karma for all the bullshit they've been pulling since January. PSN might as well be dead at this point.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

If I read right, they not even sure it happen. In other words he could be suing for nothing.

Anyway, that was quick.


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## xist (Apr 27, 2011)

Sony’s T&C state it excludes “all liability or loss of data or unauthorised access” to consumer accounts....Brits gonna take 'em down though.....


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> *If I read right,* they not even sure it happen. In other words he could be suing for nothing.
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> Anyway, that was quick.



You didn't.

But anyways, good. Sony should have encrypted user data. I mean for god sakes, even Gawker media encrypted passwords even if it was only the first 5 letters. And Sony didn't do it at all?

What a joke, they deserve to be sued.


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## _Chaz_ (Apr 27, 2011)

Serves them right. You don't just leave info like that accessible.


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## Tonitonichopchop (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm mildly surprised it happened this quick, but this is certainly not surprising. Sony failed in a huge way and is now going to suffer the consequences. I'm even wondering if they'll be able to survive in the industry at this point.


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## Maz7006 (Apr 27, 2011)

http://vgn365.com/2011/04/26/psn-users-rep...olen-from-them/


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## Coto (Apr 27, 2011)

Well. This is about money, and personal info. Even Sony can´t get out with it easily, let´s hope they have _really _learned their lesson this time.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

Tonitonichopchop said:
			
		

> I'm mildly surprised it happened this quick, but this is certainly not surprising. Sony failed in a huge way and is now going to suffer the consequences. I'm even wondering if they'll be able to survive in the industry at this point.



They won't survive in these conditions

Think of it

Damage and costs of rebuilding the PSN: 24 billion dollars

Lawsuits $500,000-10,000,000+ (per case, it's worldwide)

Compensation of around $10-$100 per user

Consumer Confidence loss: Priceless

Conclusion: Sony will be doomed


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/...g-Breach-Secret

A freaking US Senator is up their ass now. And it's only gonna get worse for 'em.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

This is crazy, they really mess up!


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/...g-Breach-Secret
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> A freaking US Senator is up their ass now. And it's only gonna get worse for 'em.



It's over, all they need now is someone from the Japanese Government, Ishihara would be the best choice for obvious reasons, then they will be screwed for good.


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## Snailface (Apr 27, 2011)

This company just can't catch a break. I _almost_ feel sorry for them.


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## aiRWaLKRe (Apr 27, 2011)

Wooo if this keeps up I might be able to buy a ps3 new for very cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sony is going to hell in a handbasket huh?


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## heartgold (Apr 27, 2011)

aw what? Poor Sony, hope it doesn't damage them too much


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## [M]artin (Apr 27, 2011)

Yesss, within a few weeks, I'll be able to pick up a PS3 for like, 5 bucks! >=D

So... should I be trying to get a full refund on my PS3 copy of Portal 2 now...? I only bought it to activate it on Steam and since I can't even get past the first step of linking it to my PSN now...?


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## Zerosuit connor (Apr 27, 2011)

I have always loved sony products, but they have done consumers wrong by not telling us straight away and not fixing issues like this earlier this month when anonymous brought PSN down. This is going to turn many people off Sony products, especially when this is the worst time for this to happen i.e with the release of their tablets and the NGP coming up later this year .Not to mention the recent release of the Xperia play. And I think that if they can fix this mess, it will encourage them to make PSN a subsrciption service. I think what Sony needs to do now is... Make Believe.


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## The Catboy (Apr 27, 2011)

Really? Didn't Sony just get out of court with the GeoHot case and now this?


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Really? Didn't Sony just get out of court with the GeoHot case and now this?


Karma suuuuure is a BITCH ain't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





EDIT: Temp is flooding apparantly. o_o


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## Snailface (Apr 27, 2011)

A Gay Little Catboy said:
			
		

> Really? Didn't Sony just get out of court with the GeoHot case and now this?


Now that this is happening, I wonder if Sony wouldn't like to drag him back in court and hang him up by his testicles instead of letting him off easy like they did.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

heartgold said:
			
		

> aw what? Poor Sony, hope it doesn't damage them too much



Nah let them get what they fully deserve, they had this coming and the end of Sony isn't the end of gaming, I got my 3DS and a good line up of games for the Summer so while they end up failing in the Summer I'll be playing Tales of Abyss, Clash of Heroes 3D, and Senran Kagura on my 3DS.  A lot of you guys have Xbox 360, Wiis, 3DSes, and even just a DS phat/light, so you'll still be gaming anyway.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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Karma? They were protecting their shit. I feel so bad for Sony, too much happening to them. They will pull it together soon enough.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

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Well they sure didn't seem to care enough to protect OUR shit.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

IM NOT SAYING HE'S THE CAUSE OF IT

but you can't help but wonder if GeoHot is laughing.


I wanna know what the hell happened to Sony. PlayStation 1 and 2 were nothing but amazing consoles with amazing games. (Crash Bandicoot anyone?), and then this generation, they've simply just been fucking up non stop.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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Yup, they just wanted to throw info out there, right? No. They got hacked, things happen.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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I really want to say you're wrong in some way but that post is just...correct.


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## DSGamer64 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well if they got credit card info, they didn't get mine because mine hasn't been used in a month.


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## Adr990 (Apr 27, 2011)

Just what they desirve. But actually for suing the shit out of people doing nothing wrong.

But if this is the way they can pay the price for it. I'm happy, as long as the company goes down.


-=-

I mean like.. this is just a terrible _unforgivable_ mistake.

But suing people for hacking a computer, by technology which it's build with. Go sue the technology if you don't want it to be hackable.
People can do to their bought consoles and fridges and toasters what ever they may like. And the PS3/Sony is not a exception. There is nothing wrong with make a console run homebrew, and have other people using it at their own risks also.

Screw Sony.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

DSGamer64 said:
			
		

> Well if they got credit card info, they didn't get mine because mine hasn't been used in a month.


But you still used it.


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## Coto (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

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Completely agree with you chopchop, stolen money from users will likely to end Sony SCEI worldwide. This means either bankrupt or jail.


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## Snailface (Apr 27, 2011)

How much could this suit be worth? $24 beallion dolllars. [puts pinky on lip]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/04/26/...ng_8436469.html
(outrageous figure in middle of article)


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## DrOctapu (Apr 27, 2011)

You know one simple, cheap and easy way they could have avoided all of this shit? Storing personal data client side.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

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Well my ideal situation is:
First Sony Dies
Then they team up with SEGA
And then the console triumvirate is a whole new ball game

But of course, the miracle never happen.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

chao1212 said:
			
		

> You know one simple, cheap and easy way they could have avoided all of this shit? Storing personal data client side.



Not egg hackers on by saying "HAR HAR HAR WE HAX PROOF!" and not sue the shit out of everybody for taking a screw out of their console, and not raiding Chokolo's home twice, not somehow get away with getting all of our IP's from watching a YouTube video? 

The list goes on my friend.


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## Maz7006 (Apr 27, 2011)

chao1212 said:
			
		

> You know one simple, cheap and easy way they could have avoided all of this shit? Storing personal data client side.



i never understood why they didn't do this 

safer and easier ... then again i never used an CC # or any real names and address' for PSN accounts. 

i hope we get some answers soon either way


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## Zerosuit connor (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> IM NOT SAYING HE'S THE CAUSE OF IT
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Issue number 1. They cut corners
Issue number 2. PSN is free, you get what you pay for
Issue number 3. It happens when you flaunt the fact that you have the *unhackable* console, they tempted fate. Like anonymous said "they saw a hornets nest and stuck their penises in it"


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> Yup, they just wanted to throw info out there, right? No. They got hacked, things happen.


Which is exactly why they should've put more effort into protecting consumers' personal info. These things happen all the time, and they should've been far better prepared for it. That's the whole point of security.


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## Fyrus (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Then they team up with SEGA



GOD NO PLEASE.

Anyway, serves them right.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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Maybe the hackers are really good. Just sayin.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Fyrus said:
			
		

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I'd love to see the Dreamcast 2


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

Fyrus said:
			
		

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Lol, SEGA.

Sony Electronics Gaming America.


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## Fyrus (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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Let my SEGA Rest in peace T_T


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 27, 2011)

karma.........IT'S A BITCH!


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

Sony could've avoided all this had they not sued Geohot, they attacked one hacker, 100s came after them. I do feel bad for them, but they themselves put their arse in this shit.

I hope they don't go bankrupt or jail....I love the Nintendo Consoles vs Sony Consoles War....


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## Romnerd (Apr 27, 2011)

Surely a breach of your data protection. 

Even thier "contacts page" where you should be able to write to them, ask questions or complain is not working !!!!  You cannot submit any message to them, hopeless!!!!!

Loss of personal data, time to fix, time to reset related accounts, the potential risk associated with this data loss and possible credit card loss is enormous!

Data that is potentially not protected ???? ...........  to what level was your personal information encrypted. 
What is the risk of the person/s obtaining this information being able to read and use the information?? Sony ...... you need to tell us straight...... A week after the event....This really is a disgraceful situation. 

Note to admin - Please can you create an emoticon similar to this  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for Sony ......


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## Zerosuit connor (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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Bahahahahaha. I cannot get over that. LoL!


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## gamefan5 (Apr 27, 2011)

Wait, wait, wait, so if I understand correctly, *WE'RE* suing Sony? Oh wow... 2011 is definetely one of the worst year for Sony and it's far from being over.


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## XXLANCEXX (Apr 27, 2011)

all the 360 fanboys are celebrating over this whole fiasco lol
i know cause all my so call friends are fanboys and they are always 
trying to put me down cause i own a PS3 but i also have a 360


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

gamefan5 said:
			
		

> Wait, wait, wait, so if I understand correctly, *WE'RE* suing Sony? Oh wow... 2011 is definetely one of the worst year for Sony and it's far from being over.


Don't I remember hearing something much earlier that 2011 was gonna be a great year for Sony? Or was the 2010......?


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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C'mon isn't there anything WE can do? Lol, without Sony....the gaming market imagine it:-

Microsoft vs Nintendo....meh, the battle will be over before it even starts.


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## mrwienerdog (Apr 27, 2011)

Haha

It's so funny reading all of the comments from (mostly) teenaged boys.  "Sony fucking sucks 'cuz they didn't want all of their shit hacked and floating around on the internetz free for the taking! They fucking deserve to lose billions! I hope they fucking go out of business! I have enough games to last the whole summer!"

It will be interesting to see how all of you kids feel when you grow up, stop living at mom and dad's house, and actually have some stuff of *your* own (and not just the MP3 player your gramma got you for your birthday).  You probably wouldn't like the class bully walking up and stealing your pokemon cards, would you?

It reminds me of listening to all of the little grade four girls in my daughters' class talk about how they are going to fix the environment. One day, your testicles will drop, some of you may actually have sex and procreate, and your world view will change.  I'm not saying I don't download stuff, but ffs, they (Sony) were only trying to protect THEIR stuff.  They were just trying to do the same thing you do when you lock up your bike at school.

Let the self-righteous flaming begin.


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## Zerosuit connor (Apr 27, 2011)

There were'nt even any clues as to who did it. I suppose you don't have to be a genius or George Hotz to hack a ps3!


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

Zerosuit connor said:
			
		

> There were'nt even any clues as to who did it. I suppose you don't have to be a genius or *George Hotz* to hack a ps3!


IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!111oneshift


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

I just had this thought, *so this means no NGP??* Sad lol.


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## DrOctapu (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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If only, man. If only.


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## Zerosuit connor (Apr 27, 2011)

mrwienerdog said:
			
		

> Haha
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You sir are a god to me. I have all of this generations home consoles all bought with my money and treated with my respect.


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## Joe88 (Apr 27, 2011)

Zerosuit connor said:
			
		

> There were'nt even any clues as to who did it. I suppose you don't have to be a genius or George Hotz to hack a ps3!


the FBI will make a statement later this week
but its gonna take a while to investigate it for any source on where the attack came from


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## Advi (Apr 27, 2011)

EDIT: nvm, didn't bother read through thread


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

SamAsh07 said:
			
		

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Worse yet, Microsoft and Nintendo aren't even really rivals.  I mean sure, Nintendo's usually pretty indifferent to Sony (SEGA on the other hand...), but there was still this passionate rivalry between them that ultimately drove Sony to do bigger and better things (Best example: The PS2).


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

SamAsh07 said:
			
		

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It's already over forever. Nintendo won it with the SNES.


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## mrwienerdog (Apr 27, 2011)

Zerosuit connor said:
			
		

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I certainly did not mean that _everyone_ here had these opinions.  I am fully aware that is not the case.  A few pages back, though,  there were a lot of opinions being shared along those lines.  I've always seen those kinds of post and chuckled, but this time I just had to write something.


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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You are right, I LOVE the PS2...oh man, god save Sony.


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## DrOctapu (Apr 27, 2011)

mrwienerdog said:
			
		

> Haha
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Yes, there are a lot of self-righteous teenage pirates out there that hate the industry. This, though, is totally different. Doesn't it make sense to freak out when your credit cards, billing address and pretty much your identity is stolen?


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## mrwienerdog (Apr 27, 2011)

Advi said:
			
		

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Really?  I can believe that some people do attribute it to the 'stolen information of thousands of PSN customers'  but I personally don't believe that everyone here is saying this stuff about Sony just because of that.  And as a side, I am no Sony fanman.  I own nothing nor will own nothing produced by Sony.  For me, it was the whole Linux thing.  But I didn't come on these forums and hope they would fold because of it.

Also, there is no reason to call me stupid.

I agree that credit card information being up for the taking is a major issue. However, I bet that if I met a lot of the people making a lot of the claims I was referring to earlier, they aren't even old enough to own a credit card.  That is who this is directed at.  Furthermore, I am not just speaking to this case, I see these posts all of the time, and just chose this particular topic to say something about it.


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## Duckthom (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

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And also Norio Ogha, the creator of Sony Computer Entertainment, has died(i don't know how to say that nicer) this weekend.


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## DJPlace (Apr 27, 2011)

let's hope sony looks for gameshark for infinte money LOL. but if they go out of buniess i will be damned.


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## Thesolcity (Apr 27, 2011)

I knew this was going to happen. Serves them right for shit encryption.


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> I knew this was going to happen. Serves them right for shit encryption.


No one is my perfect my pal. No one is perfect.


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## SinHarvest24 (Apr 27, 2011)

DJPlace said:
			
		

> let's hope sony looks for gameshark for infinte money LOL. but if they go out of buniess i will be damned.


go out of business....that's highly unlikely........


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## raulpica (Apr 27, 2011)

No blatant flamebaits, please. Try to express your opinion in a non-flamey way, next time. Thanks.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

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Look at 4Kids, the bane of all evil.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

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I bet he isn't resting in peace seeing the company he created go to hell ten times over.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

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As a consumer, I had no real problems with Sony, and I've owned every main Playstation product released (except for the phone and that POS Go), but as of late, they've just outright disgusted me with their decision to remove advertised features from their system and actually sue people trying to innovate using their various products (not just Playstation). I understand that as a business, their number one goal is to make money. But you don't shit on your own revenue.


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## Thesolcity (Apr 27, 2011)

SamAsh07 said:
			
		

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No, but they at least could've tried. :/ 
*IF* I had put all my personal info on my PS3 thinking it was secure and then have this happen, I'd be pissed.

But I didn't make an account on playstation network so the CFW I have doesn't violate any TOS of mine. >>


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## ShinyLatios (Apr 27, 2011)

DJPlace said:
			
		

> let's hope sony looks for gameshark for infinte money LOL. but if they go out of buniess i will be damned.



they can't, they banned any gamesharks from their PS3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on topic: DAMN! There goes the awesome littlebig franchise


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

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Lol that's nothing, I had a PSN account, with everything FAKE, no CC details since it was only to download freebies.

My name in that was Wright Bros, living in Idaho, Caldwell. Although I live somewhere far far away


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## WhySoSerious70 (Apr 27, 2011)

I bet GeoHot is laughing his ass off.


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## CCNaru (Apr 27, 2011)

Vaio computer lineup was overpriced piece of shit... they're paying back what they overcharged (ofc not on Apple level but it's pretty high up)


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

WhySoSerious70 said:
			
		

> I bet GeoHot is laughing his ass off.


lol, Sony. Nice boost to his already big ego. (not a geohot hater)


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

Not saying they will go out of business,but wouldn't all Sony games spread to Nintendo or/and Microsoft?


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Not saying they will go out of business,but wouldn't all Sony games spread to Nintendo or/and Microsoft?


In America and Europe, yeah, plenty of games. Japan though, not too sure.


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## Delta517 (Apr 27, 2011)

Sony really failed hard this time...

Do you guys think this could be the end of Sony?


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

Delta517 said:
			
		

> Sony really failed hard this time...
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Not really.

They're multi billion dollar company. I don't think this lawsuit will hurt them enough to do that.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

Duskye said:
			
		

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Enough to drastically change them.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

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The third party titles will but 1st will go out of existence in Japan most 1st party games aren't very popular in Japan save for the few exclusives.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

Not to get too offtopic, but since this "third party" that hacked PSN was an ANONYMOUS source, which has put Sony in the biggest shithole of the year (so far?), wouldn't that technically mean that Anonymous has won the war?


........................ Lol.


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## SamAsh07 (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Not saying they will go out of business,but wouldn't all Sony games spread to Nintendo or/and Microsoft?


I love you for saying this, can't wait to play Kingdom Hearts III on Nintendo Project Cafe (Stream, Wiiii)


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

Fuck Geohot...this is for Lik-Sang! Karma is a mother.


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## shakirmoledina (Apr 27, 2011)

i bet geohot is not happy too, why would u be happy at someone's loss. If they stop their habits is when u get happy not when they are in trouble thats like what they did is what we are doing. Its the law of nature ie. cause and effect, karma yes is a reason/cause, whose cause is sony's own actions and their hiding the fact *that probably all their efforts to confront geohot and everything was fear that all their unsecured data would get exposed.*

i also am kinda sad for them, i dont think they will die but it will be a huge blow. The thing i agree with is sony's lack of action and notification about the incident and that ppl should do something before it goes bad. He said they knew it on 20th and yet did not inform the ppl about it.

U know who is to blame? Those cursed/damned hackers who actually stole information and money for customers. Are they so low as to steal from just anybody?! Damn them!

PS - This kinda adds to the drama of real madrid but i thought this is more interesting (in a bad way). I am not sure if the other posts say so but the type of suing is by many ppl reporting to a single firm to file a case. RP has his work cut out lol. No sleeping today man!


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Not saying they will go out of business,but wouldn't all Sony games spread to Nintendo or/and Microsoft?


LittleBigPlanet 360 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Heck, MGS 360/Wii 2


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## iceissocold (Apr 27, 2011)

They sued GeoHot and now they're being sued. It's all I read on the web nowadays.

And to think this whole hacking thing started after Sony killed the Other OS feature... They certainly aren't the game company they were 10 years ago. :/


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

Doesn't make any sense.

It isn't Sony's fault that they got hacked. A hacker with malicious intents did it. Hopefully, the plaintiff doesn't succeed.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Fuck Geohot...this is for Lik-Sang! Karma is a mother.


^This shit right here!^





-_Katt Williams_


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## zeromac (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

> Not to get too offtopic, but since this "third party" that hacked PSN was an ANONYMOUS source, which has put Sony in the biggest shithole of the year (so far?), wouldn't that technically mean that Anonymous has won the war?
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Theres a difference
No-one know who attacked the PSN. aka the attackers are anonymous people.
You are refering to the group under the name of anonymous


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

> demonicstrife said:
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I know, it was a joke.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> It isn't Sony's fault that they got hacked. A hacker with malicious intents did it. Hopefully, the plaintiff doesn't succeed.



It's Sony's fault for not having beefier security. Sony is responsible for keeping a customer's info safe. Sony is also responsible if that information gets into the hands of someone the consumer did not consent to.

Let's say I'm borrowing a Nintendo DS from a friend and I lock the door, yet leave the window open...the thief crawls through the window and steals my friend's DS. By law, I am responsible for his DS the moment he lends it to me, no matter what kind of security I had on my house.


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## godreborn (Apr 27, 2011)

I have been a major anti-sony proponent for a while, but I actually feel sorry for them now.  perhaps, this marks a turning point for the company as whole.  getting rid of the dead weight like many of their ceos and engineering staff is a start.  I mean year-after-year they've become more distant from what the consumer wants, and their arrogance is just astounding.  now that they've hit rock-bottom, they know there's only one way to turn this around.


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## Zarxrax (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> It isn't Sony's fault that they got hacked. A hacker with malicious intents did it. Hopefully, the plaintiff doesn't succeed.



Almost anytime a breach like this happens, there has been gross negligence. If correct security proceedures are followed, then stealing this kind of information would be EXTREMELY difficult.

If sony had print outs of everyone's info sitting on some desk in their office, and a janitor steals them, can you say its not sony's fault? When you are handling people's private information, there are certain proceedures that you take in order to ensure the safety of that information.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> It isn't Sony's fault that they got hacked. A hacker with malicious intents did it. Hopefully, the plaintiff doesn't succeed.



You do realize that if Sony actually had security and encrypted personal data, the hacker would have had A LOT of trouble of viewing it. But no, they basically put up a piece of paper that "this is a thick wall" written on it. So the hacker to scissors to it. That's all this basically is.


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> SoulSnatcher said:
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Horrible analogy.

Anyways, how can you blame Sony for PSN getting hacked?
Do you expect Sony to predict the future and patch all vulnerabilities before they get exploited?

If there's anyone you should be mad at, it's the hacker.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

iceissocold said:
			
		

> They sued GeoHot and now they're being sued.
> That the thing, this event like it was written in a book...
> 
> Someone get some writers.
> ...


See.


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## zeromac (Apr 27, 2011)

Thought I would double post just to say that I'm watching the morning news and their reporting about the hack and their getting the facts wrong.. Their saying  CC details were stolen. It is presumed they were stolen. No actually evidence yet..

Fucking media


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

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If Sony had the beefiest of security and hackers hacked them people would say ,"they need beefier security".  You can never win because people will always talk shit. The forums are equivalent to the graffiti on the restroom walls.


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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Sucks for them.

Nobody forced anyone to sign up for PSN or get a PS3.
If you're worried about shit like that, don't buy a PS3.

Simple as that.


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## jgblahblahblah (Apr 27, 2011)

e


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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It doesn't matter...Consumers "lent" their data to Sony, Sony is responsible if that data is compromised. There are very few things that are so black and white.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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The fact is that they put almost no effort into securing their system. All that info was literally just sitting in there unencrypted for anyone to see if they put a little effort into punching through.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 27, 2011)

oh well so much for the ps4 i don't think sony will be coming back next gen


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 27, 2011)

Dear Sony,
[youtube]rX7wtNOkuHo[/youtube]


That is all.


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## Nujui (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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It will do that for sure, but not enough to end them. That's what I meant.


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## Wizerzak (Apr 27, 2011)

I presume the hackers know that Sony will have to pay people their money back, that's why they did it. To get sony back for everything they've done. That way the consumers are safe (99%) and they can watch people sue the crap out of sony.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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Uh no.

They signed an agreement with Sony, an electronic contract, that said Sony will protect user data. And clearly it didn't. This is Sony's fault for fucking up and not having actual security.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

> omgpwn666 said:
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Why did it take so long to hack the PS3 then? We're non hackers saying they should use better security, we don't know what they had going. Just because someone hacked them does not mean their security sucked.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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Reading FTW.  Just saying, people always talk about the ToA and use it as proof but I wonder how many of them actually read them.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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You're not supposed to be worried about anything, just sign up and enjoy. So the network getting hacked the way it did came as an outrage to many. People put their trust in Sony.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

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We have been through this argument time and time again. Until the point that the PS3 was hacked, almost no one was interested in hacking it. It's that simple.


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## Ikki (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> It isn't Sony's fault that they got hacked. A hacker with malicious intents did it. Hopefully, the plaintiff doesn't succeed.
> Say, you give your credit card to a cashier, she/he puts it down on the whatever it is they have, then a guy sneaks by, takes it and gets out. Is it your fault for giving it to the cashier? Or the cashier's for being careless?
> ...



This is database security, not system security. Don't bring the other security to the argument because it's not the same thing.


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> It doesn't matter...Consumers "lent" their data to Sony, Sony is responsible if that data is compromised. There are very few things that are so black and white.
> They also had to agree with PSN's terms and conditions before going on the network.
> 
> It says in the terms and conditions that Sony is
> CODEnot liable for any loss of data or any “unauthorized access,” to said data when using Sony Online Network.



If they were worried, they shouldn't have signed up for PSN.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 27, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> demonicstrife said:
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It's not that the Ps3 wasn't secure. It's that the data that was sent over PSN wasn't encrypted, and that's why the personal information of all the PSN users have been compromised.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

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Microsoft also got hacked a few, yet their Xbox has much more solid security unlike the PS3.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

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Was there proof of that, or is that speculation? I've seen that message too, but anyone can say that. Not doubting there is proof, but if you can find proof that isn't just some guy on the internet saying stuff, please link it.

@ TheDarkSeed & demonicstrife - That's true, but I still wont find it in myself to wish harm on Sony. That's just evil.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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So if your personal data was taken by someone from anywhere it doesn't matter it the person fault? 

Keep that logic while something like this get your data stolen.


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Uh no.
> 
> They signed an agreement with Sony, an electronic contract, that said Sony will protect user data. And clearly it didn't. This is Sony's fault for fucking up and not having actual security.
> Where in the terms and conditions does it say that?
> ...


No, it isn't the "exact same situation".

THEY AGREED TO PSN'S TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

Also, you can't expect Sony to protect against every possible security breach. That's unreasonable.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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The T&C was written by Sony, and is not above the reach of US law. When was the last time a T&C agreement held up in court? Any judge worth his salt will laugh it off like every other judge that has been presented with the argument of "Well, durr it was in the T&C so he agreed to it so i'm above the law, derp"


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> ShadowSoldier said:
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Of course we don't. But little effort was put toward that in the first place.

*@omgpwn666:* I only said they were screwed.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

TL;DR

EULAs, T&Cs and TOUs are not legally binding.


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## sphinx.djc (Apr 27, 2011)

I really wish the absurd rise in gas prices received as much attention and downplay from politicians and the media, as this whole security breach is getting.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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Well going into a store and buying something is still you agreeing to that store's T&C.


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> So if your personal data was taken by someone from anywhere it doesn't matter it the person fault?
> 
> Keep that logic while something like this get your data stolen.
> I don't understand what you're saying.
> ...


I didn't know there was a law that made Sony liable for EVERY SINGLE SECURITY BREACH.

Why don't we sue every other company that has had a security breach?
After all, it makes PERFECT SENSE!


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

sphinx.djc said:
			
		

> I really wish the absurd rise in gas prices received as much attention and downplay from politicians and the media, as this whole security breach is getting.


QUOTE FOR FUCKING TRUTH.


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## sphinx.djc (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

> sphinx.djc said:
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## Joe88 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

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the point your missing is thats its a binding contract between the user and SCE

and every PSN user agreed to this when they signed up for the service (probably about 99% of them didnt bother to read it and just hit agree)


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
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Usually those companies do get sued. You just never hear it in the news because it's not worth reporting. Usually small time shit involving small companies and a few people's compromised info.


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## Deleted_171835 (Apr 27, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Well going into a store and buying something is still you agreeing to that store's T&C.


Yet another analogy that doesn't make any sense.

The store doesn't force you to agree to their terms and conditions.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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The point you are missing is the precedent has been set a long time ago that agreements of those kinds are NOT LEGALLY BINDING.


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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Of course not,but you seem to not understand how big this security breach it.

This is a lot of people you could possible lose money and other stuff.


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## haddad (Apr 27, 2011)

anyone know when PSN is gonna be back up again?


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## Hells Guardian (Apr 27, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> This company just can't catch a break. I _almost_ feel sorry for them.




I can't even remotely agree. SONY had this shit coming from day one. a bunch of thieving pirates finally got what they deserve.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

haddad said:
			
		

> anyone know when PSN is gonna be back up again?


HAHAHAHAHA.... Haha.....


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## haddad (Apr 27, 2011)

demonicstrife said:
			
		

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wats so funny, lol...........


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

haddad said:
			
		

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It was SUPPOSED to be some time next week, but now..... lol....


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh and that. ^


			
				haddad said:
			
		

> demonicstrife said:
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The fact you not worrying about the security breach, but instead worrying about PSN.


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## giratina16 (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, Sony is fucked.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

After all these hacks (xbox is next) and the youth ordinance bill (Sony is going to die 2 ways not just the current one) only Nintendo will survive through the hacks and more.


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## Eckin (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm neither happy or sad for Sony. I wouldn't say they deserved it or not based on their recent actions against the hacking community.

But I do feel sad for some people I know who use the PSN. I have a friend who is a *huge* Sony fanboy, who downloads zillions of bytes from the PSN, buy stuff from there, sign up for every beta, has a lot of PS3 games (and damn, those aren't cheap), bought Move as soon as possible, the list goes on and on. He always talked about how cool Sony is and how I should get a PS3 if I ever got a console from this gen, he is a fanboy but not one of the bad kind.

It's not his fault that Sony fucked up on their security protocols, and now he has to live with all of this shit. Not only all of his personal information (and CC) was leaked, but also that awesome company he loved is getting shitted left and right. I can't help but to feel sorry for him.

...on the brighter side, maybe this whole issue will help me pick a new console


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

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That wasn't an analogy...apparently you didn't see Ikki's post in the quote...which you replied to...


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## steven gambee (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

> After all these hacks (xbox is next) and the youth ordinance bill (Sony is going to die 2 ways not just the current one) only Nintendo will survive through the hacks and more.


its because nintendo has no personal info worth hacking for


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

steven gambee said:
			
		

> Hop2089 said:
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Does that make Nintendo the best internet security?


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

steven gambee said:
			
		

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As far as I know, you can still purchase Nintendo Points using your credit card directly from the Wii.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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No it just makes them wise.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Hop2089 said:
			
		

> After all these hacks (xbox is next) and the youth ordinance bill (Sony is going to die 2 ways not just the current one) only Nintendo will survive through the hacks and more.


It's kind of like the years after the Han dynasty (which the novel "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" is based off of).


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 27, 2011)

Lol, I don't think Nintendo goes through nearly the same shit that M$ and Sueny do (expect for the constant patent claims. Those suck).

EDIT: In terms of various legal issues. I'm well aware of how hacked their system is.


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## WhySoSerious70 (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Fuck Geohot...this is for Lik-Sang! Karma is a mother.



Yeah. Them too. They ruled! =)


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## GentleFist (Apr 27, 2011)

bb


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## steven gambee (Apr 27, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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God no lmfaooo and to be fair. who honestly buys nintendo points?


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

steven gambee said:
			
		

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Uh...lots of people. Enough for them to transfer the same system to the DSi and 3DS...


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## KingVamp (Apr 27, 2011)

steven gambee said:
			
		

> God no lmfaooo and to be fair. who honestly buys nintendo points?
> First part was funny, why you gone and ruin it for?
> 
> 
> ...


You can't blame geohot,you have no connection. For all we know the criminals could have gotten in by themselves. 

Just because geohot hack it doesn't mean they (the criminals) didn't hack it themselves nor that geohot helped. 

Plus it really doesn't work that way. You open a door just to look around a store, you leave then someone else (by anyway) comes in and steal something 
and now you are the criminal?


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

GentleFist said:
			
		

> everyone saying sony deserves this is just plain stupid


That's an opinion and should be stated as such unless you have proof, but judging the rest of your post I can see that that's a no.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm not quite sure if Sony deserves this as much as whoever hacked the system. It seems like we're all just a little angry and we just want someone to pay. Sony has sloppy security, true, but it seems like no one just wants the hacker who did this to pay. He's the dickbag whose stealing your info, he's the dickbag that's shutting down the PSN. Sony's doing it's best job to stop this from happening again. It's their fault for having shit security but it's more of the hacker's fault for being a dick and stealing information and hurting the network.

If anything we should just let Sony be and let them use this chance to be stronger. It's better than getting the pitchforks and torches and hoping we'll drive Sony into the ground.

I'm sure in an alternate universe where this happened to Nintendo and not Sony, we'd all be singing a different tune then "BURN THEM TO THE FUCKING GROUND".


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## yifan_lu (Apr 27, 2011)

Sony tries to secure disks, software, consoles, etc, but not personal information.


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## machomuu (Apr 27, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure if Sony deserves this as much as whoever hacked the system. It seems like we're all just a little angry and we just want someone to pay. Sony has sloppy security, true, but it seems like no one just wants the hacker who did this to pay. He's the dickbag whose stealing your info, he's the dickbag that's shutting down the PSN. Sony's doing it's best job to stop this from happening again. It's their fault for having shit security but it's more of the hacker's fault for being a dick and stealing information and hurting the network.
> 
> If anything we should just let Sony be and let them use this chance to be stronger. It's better than getting the pitchforks and torches and hoping we'll drive Sony into the ground.
> 
> I'm sure in an alternate universe where this happened to Nintendo and not Sony, we'd all be singing a different tune then "BURN THEM TO THE FUCKING GROUND".


QFT, because say what you want about Guild, but this is all very true IMO.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure if Sony deserves this as much as whoever hacked the system. It seems like we're all just a little angry and we just want someone to pay. Sony has sloppy security, true, but it seems like no one just wants the hacker who did this to pay. He's the dickbag whose stealing your info, he's the dickbag that's shutting down the PSN. Sony's doing it's best job to stop this from happening again. It's their fault for having shit security but it's more of the hacker's fault for being a dick and stealing information and hurting the network.
> 
> If anything we should just let Sony be and let them use this chance to be stronger. It's better than getting the pitchforks and torches and hoping we'll drive Sony into the ground.
> 
> I'm sure in an alternate universe where this happened to Nintendo and not Sony, we'd all be singing a different tune then "BURN THEM TO THE FUCKING GROUND".



Nintendo Hasn't done as much as Sony to screw the consumer either. If it were Microsoft though, I would still say go for it.

Sony systematically shut down Lik-Sang...my one stop shop for everything imported, and for that I can never forgive them.


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## Guild McCommunist (Apr 27, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Nintendo Hasn't done as much as Sony to screw the consumer either. If it were Microsoft though, I would still say go for it.
> 
> Sony systematically shut down Lik-Sang...my one stop shop for everything imported, and for that I can never forgive them.



Well it just seems like you have a personal grudge then. I'm just trying to look at this as it is.

And whether Nintendo has been "screwing" consumers is something up for debate. Not here of course, but I'd say every company is guilty to some extent of abusing consumer trust.


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## Magmorph (Apr 27, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure if Sony deserves this as much as whoever hacked the system. It seems like we're all just a little angry and we just want someone to pay. Sony has sloppy security, true, but it seems like no one just wants the hacker who did this to pay. He's the dickbag whose stealing your info, he's the dickbag that's shutting down the PSN. Sony's doing it's best job to stop this from happening again. It's their fault for having shit security but it's more of the hacker's fault for being a dick and stealing information and hurting the network.
> 
> If anything we should just let Sony be and let them use this chance to be stronger. It's better than getting the pitchforks and torches and hoping we'll drive Sony into the ground.
> 
> I'm sure in an alternate universe where this happened to Nintendo and not Sony, we'd all be singing a different tune then "BURN THEM TO THE FUCKING GROUND".


Sony needs some work on their customer relations.


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## Hyro-Sama (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank the Lord! Sony deserves it. You cannot just lose people's information like that.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 27, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Calling it a grudge would be an understatement, but I digress.

I do have a bias against Sony. I hope they get everything back tenfold.


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## GreatZimkogway (Apr 27, 2011)

I really do feel bad for Sony at this point.  Yeah, in a way, they brought it on themselves, karma and all that bullshit...but really...all people are using them getting hacked is to tear them down...  Anything can be hacked.  This is not the first time something like this has happened.  Credit card information gets stolen all the time.  It's nothing new.  That personal info?  Guess what.  Didn't Nintendo just get hacked recently?  And weren't at least half of the people saying they deserved it?  

Let's face it.  You people just want to throw blame around like it's nothing.  This whole PSN getting hacked problem?  It could take Sony down permanently across everything they do.  We get hit by that as well.  PSN is gone.  Playstation, a staple gaming brand for a LONG TIME, is gone.  Then you either choose between Nintendo's subpar online services, or Microsoft's Pay-To-Play+DLC+Everywhere.  Do you really want no middle ground?  Or rather, do you want APPLE to try their hand?  You thought $600 for a PS3 that dropped by...what...half the price within a year? to become Apple gaming systems that NEVER drop in price and get popular because of Apple being little more then trends?

Sony was stupid for some of the stuff they've been doing.  This lawsuit, though?  It's just beating a dying horse...


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## Thesolcity (Apr 27, 2011)

It doesn't bother me that someone stole data, (shit happens), as much as it does that this could have and with any fucking common sense would have been prevented had Sony done some decent encryption. But no, far be it from them to keep shit secure. Its almost as if they aren't trying anymore, a retarded 8 year old could've told them  that keeping personal info in plain text is beyond stupid. Glad I don't trust my personal info with Sony. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








BTW: I'm not bashing Sony for a data breach, I'm bashing them because they aren't competent at security and have a track record of not thinking/caring about the consumer.


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## Sheimi (Apr 28, 2011)

Sony deserved it. *grabs popcorn and watches*


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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You're interpreting that wrong.
That means access to things like your account/stats.
Not your credit card information and other such things.


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## jorpor (Apr 28, 2011)

Funny how everyone is saying Sony deserves this, which is pretty true, but everyone seems to be forgetting that in the end, the Playstation users will be screwed.

If this whole situation leads to Sony ending up dead, we won't have any support for the PS3 anymore. And what developer will want to release games for a dead console?

Seriously guys, blame Sony all you want, but also think about the millions of PS3 users, who have nothing to do with any of this.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Funny how everyone is saying Sony deserves this, which is pretty true, but everyone seems to be forgetting that in the end, the Playstation users will be screwed.
> 
> *If this whole situation leads to Sony ending up dead, we won't have any support for the PS3 anymore. And what developer will want to release games for a dead console?
> 
> Seriously guys, blame Sony all you want, but also think about the millions of PS3 users, who have nothing to do with any of this.*




Maybe it's all for the better. Sony dies, another company will take it's place. I think it's about time for some new blood in the console wars.


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## ball2012003 (Apr 28, 2011)

Sheimi said:
			
		

> Sony deserved it. *grabs popcorn and watches*


And why is that?
It is the hackers fault and no one else.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 28, 2011)

This is *exactly* what we need to make the situation better.

Because Sony admins don't have enough work to do to enhance security measures and re-boot the system. They need to send data to courts, otherwise they'd die of boredom. *NO* data loss or capture is confirmed, there is only a *possibility* that it occoured, which ALWAYS exists.

-snip-


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## Midna (Apr 28, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> Funny how everyone is saying Sony deserves this, which is pretty true, but everyone seems to be forgetting that in the end, the Playstation users will be screwed.
> 
> If this whole situation leads to Sony ending up dead, we won't have any support for the PS3 anymore. And what developer will want to release games for a dead console?
> 
> Seriously guys, blame Sony all you want, but also think about the millions of PS3 users, who have nothing to do with any of this.


Umm... wut.

You act as if that would kill games forever. If Playstation dies, devs start publishing their old exclusives on Xbox, Nintendo or PC. And all you lose is your brand loyalty. PS3 is on the way out anyway.

Hells yes, Sony deserves this. They're about to get raped and I don't care one bit.


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## Wintrale (Apr 28, 2011)

jorpor said:
			
		

> If this whole situation leads to Sony ending up dead, we won't have any support for the PS3 anymore. And what developer will want to release games for a dead console?



That's hardly the worst of it. Many developers will go out of business if SCE does since most single platform games don't net enough of a profit. If third party developers start dropping like flies (even moreso than they already have been), then the entire gaming market is essentially screwed because Microsoft isn't going to stick with a sinking ship and Nintendo can't save it a second time.

So, really, all these "innocent" hackers may have signed the death warrant for the entire industry and yet everyone here seems to _want_ this to happen.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

ball2012003 said:
			
		

> Sheimi said:
> 
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It may be the hacker's fault, but it's also Sony's fault.

If I have all of my friend's info in a taped cardboard box, and you decide to open it and steal the data, I was still in possession of the data when it was stolen, meaning I am responsible for the theft of it, and you are responsible for whatever you do with that data. 

Funny how the law works, eh?


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## machomuu (Apr 28, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> Fcuking Americans.


Hey, I didn't do anything, please don't generalize.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> jorpor said:
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The death of Sega didn't kill the industry...why would the death of Sony?


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## Midna (Apr 28, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> jorpor said:
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...Can't Microsoft or Ninty buy out Sony's in house devs if it comes to that? And independent studios can do whatever they want with their games. There's plenty of gaming platforms out there besides PS3.


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## Foxi4 (Apr 28, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Foxi4 said:
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Didn't use any names, I'm just talking about the general attitude. U.S citizens honestly believe that all of the world's problems can be solved by lawsuits, which is clearly visible when you compare the sheer ammount and seriousness of law suits in your country compared to other countries.


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## machomuu (Apr 28, 2011)

Midna said:
			
		

> Wintrale said:
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If Nintendo bought out Sony it would either be the end of the world or the beginning of a new era,


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## Thesolcity (Apr 28, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> If Nintendo bought out Sony it would either be the end of the world or the beginning of a new era,



Bring on the new era!


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## Foxi4 (Apr 28, 2011)

Every market needs competition to progress. Having less players than we already have would stall the progress of the console buisness. If there's anything we do need, it's the rise of new companies and consoles to make the whole thing more interesting. OpenPandora/Wiz, anyone?


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

I love to see people stand up to a giant.
I hope sony lose.


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## Wintrale (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> The death of Sega didn't kill the industry...why would the death of Sony?
> 
> 'Cause games cost A LOT less to develop and profits were MUCH higher fifteen years ago. Plus the fact that Sony was right there to replace Sega _really_ helped.
> 
> QUOTE(Midna @ Apr 28 2011, 12:20 AM) ...Can't Microsoft or Ninty buy out Sony's in house devs if it comes to that? And independent studios can do whatever they want with their games. There's plenty of gaming platforms out there besides PS3.



There are two. The Wii and the 360. If you make a game for one, you can't make it for the other as well. If the PS3 dies before the Café comes out, everything made will be platform exclusive and that instantly means any potential profit is halved. In a market where even Capcom has to push for five million sales just to turn a quantifiable profit, do you really think anyone is going to be happy with their potential profit getting halved? New companies will find it nearly impossible to start up and the likes of Ubisoft and EA aren't going to be happy with making current gen games when they know they have to cut their profit forecasts in half to do so.


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## omgitsmisha (Apr 28, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> I didn't know there was a law that made Sony liable for EVERY SINGLE SECURITY BREACH.
> 
> Why don't we sue every other company that has had a security breach?
> After all, it makes PERFECT SENSE!



You sign an agreement with me that you're my slave for life. Subsequently after, you refuse to be my slave. If I took you to court for breach of contract, would I win? No, because slavery is illegal. Just because it's in the T&C doesn't mean it's above the law. It was Sony's responsibility to keep that information safe. They didn't. It's just that simple.

Of course, the hacker in this case is responsible for actually stealing the personal information, but that person has yet to be identified. They will, in all likelihood, be brought to justice for their crimes. Make no mistake, though, Sony is up shit's creek without a paddle. There's really no way they could possibly hope to justify being that grossly negligent. If your personal information was stolen in this incident, Sony and this hacker have both committed a crime against you. Seek legal counsel and get in on this class-action suit. You deserve compensation.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Midna said:
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Considering Sony owns a very large electronics chain, I seriously doubt that the end of SCEI would be the end of Sony altogether. If worse comes to worse, they will just bow out of the console market and continue selling overpriced electronics.


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## Thesolcity (Apr 28, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> Every market needs competition to progress. Having less players than we already have would stall the progress of the console buisness. If there's anything we do need, it's the rise of new companies and consoles to make the whole thing more interesting. OpenPandora/Wiz, anyone?



I'd like the Pandora is it wasn't $500+....


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> Didn't use any names, I'm just talking about the general attitude. U.S citizens honestly believe that all of the world's problems can be solved by lawsuits, which is clearly visible when you compare the sheer ammount and seriousness of law suits in your country compared to other countries.


This is hardly the case here.
Sony completely ballsed up security in this console.
They need a kick in the balls to get their priorities straightened out.


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## Midna (Apr 28, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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FALLACY DETECTED
You're assuming that gamers loyal to Sony after it (potentially) falls will just quit gaming forever. Riiight. Not like they'll continue to buy games on other platforms.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Behind the aging, dying whale that is Sony is a young doe-eyed buck waiting to take the console world by storm.

Atari bowed out of the console scene and Sony took their place...Sega bowed out of the console scene and Microsoft took their place.

Believe me, there will be a company to replace Sony.


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## Bently (Apr 28, 2011)

I love seeing things like this unravel. Pardon my lack of knowledge, but do you _need_ to provide Credit card numbers/debit or names + address for that matter when you create a PSN account? (I don't own a PS3 nor a 360)


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Behind the aging, dying whale that is Sony is a young doe-eyed buck waiting to take the console world by storm.
> 
> Atari bowed out of the console scene and Sony took their place...Sega bowed out of the console scene and Microsoft took their place.
> 
> Believe me, there will be a company to replace Sony.


If that was the case, I could see THQ, activision or ea coming up with hardware.


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## Thesolcity (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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Or Apple....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(In my nightmares, Angry Birds is played on an iConsole)....


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## Dimensional (Apr 28, 2011)

Bently said:
			
		

> I love seeing things like this unravel. Pardon my lack of knowledge, but do you _need_ to provide Credit card numbers/debit or names + address for that matter when you create a PSN account? (I don't own a PS3 nor a 360)


You just need a credit card number if your going to buy anything off of PSN and not use a PSN money card that you can buy at GameStop or any other eletronic store.


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## ball2012003 (Apr 28, 2011)

Some Guy from another website said:
			
		

> I partially agree that Sony has inadequate security, but they never GUARANTEED absolute safety, did they? Like the stock market crash of '29, the bankers made risky investments with deposited money, then the market crashed and the money was lost. The people weren't one bit happy, it was partially the banks' fault for not being safe with the money, but whose fault was it really that the people CHOSE to put their money in there? When ever you put money/cc info into something, there will always be a risk that something like this could happen!


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## Deleted User (Apr 28, 2011)

Bently said:
			
		

> I love seeing things like this unravel. Pardon my lack of knowledge, but do you _need_ to provide Credit card numbers/debit or names + address for that matter when you create a PSN account? (I don't own a PS3 nor a 360)


If you want to buy things via the PSN I think. Unless you have a PSN card then maybe you don't but I don't remember.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

Bently said:
			
		

> I love seeing things like this unravel. Pardon my lack of knowledge, but do you _need_ to provide Credit card numbers/debit or names + address for that matter when you create a PSN account? (I don't own a PS3 nor a 360)


Need isn't an issue.
It was sony's responsibility to ensure if you used your details to buy something in their store, that it would be secure.
It's an expectation.

I know here customer data is one of the most important things companies need to secure.
There's prison terms for people who fail to keep customer data secured.
What are the laws in America?


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## omgitsmisha (Apr 28, 2011)

ball2012003 said:
			
		

> Some Guy said:
> 
> 
> 
> > I partially agree that Sony has inadequate security, but they never GUARANTEED absolute safety, did they? Like the stock market crash of '29, the bankers made risky investments with deposited money, then the market crashed and the money was lost. The people weren't one bit happy, it was partially the banks' fault for not being safe with the money, but whose fault was it really that the people CHOSE to put their money in there? When ever you put money/cc info into something, there will always be a risk that something like this could happen!



So you think it's the users' fault for giving their information to Sony knowing full well it might be compromised.


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## ball2012003 (Apr 28, 2011)

omgitsmisha said:
			
		

> ball2012003 said:
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No I blame the hackers, but people keep saying that its only Sony's fault, if you want to blame Sony for everything then blame yourself for using their software.


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## omgitsmisha (Apr 28, 2011)

ball2012003 said:
			
		

> omgitsmisha said:
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I hope you never, ever get jury duty.


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## ball2012003 (Apr 28, 2011)

omgitsmisha said:
			
		

> ball2012003 said:
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Why, because I'm stating the truth.


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## chyyran (Apr 28, 2011)

Wow, Sony is getting involved in _Lawsuit after Lawsuit_
This'll push back the NGP by quite alot. This is why you get a 3DS


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## machomuu (Apr 28, 2011)

ball2012003 said:
			
		

> Why, because I'm stating the truth_*?*_


I really hope this is what you meant to say, because otherwise you seem much more arrogant and ignorant than I thought


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

ball2012003 said:
			
		

> omgitsmisha said:
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To simplify what is going on... this is like leaving your house unlocked, doors and windows open and then being surprised when you get robbed.
Sony didn't encrypt the information the units were sending. *THIS IS A MAJOR SECURITY SCREW UP ON SONY'S PART!*


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## Dimensional (Apr 28, 2011)

ball2012003 said:
			
		

> omgitsmisha said:
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Some people have mentioned the hacker was also at fault, and I agree. But from what I heard, Sony left our personal information out in the open, unencrypted. It was as if they wanted that hacker to just take it, as if they didn't bother to seriously protect us. If they had secured their network, encrypted the data, then the hacker would have had a harder time getting the data. You don't just leave your personal information out in the open for anybody to look at. It's like your begging to get your information stolen.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 28, 2011)

Bently said:
			
		

> I love seeing things like this unravel. Pardon my lack of knowledge, but do you _need_ to provide Credit card numbers/debit or names + address for that matter when you create a PSN account? (I don't own a PS3 nor a 360)


Name and address only. Card info is only when you want to buy content using it.


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## TheYummyKenshin (Apr 28, 2011)

Wizerzak said:
			
		

> I presume the hackers know that Sony will have to pay people their money back, that's why they did it. To get sony back for everything they've done. That way the consumers are safe (99%) and they can watch people sue the crap out of sony.
> 
> There's no evidence that this hacker/these hackers even cared about Sony's reputation.  It's just as likely that they saw a way into Sony's system and heard about about the lack of encryption used by Sony on personal data that they thought this could be a quick way to get rich.  Truthfully I have hard time believing that this was done to lower people's opinion of Sony but rather as a way to make some quick money either through the credit cards or selling of personal information to various parties.
> 
> ...


Yea basically if the information was encrypted in some manner all the hacker would have is a mess of unreadable code until he could decrypt it.  Normally when information as sensitive as credit card information is sent across the internet, it's actually encrypted twice but the PS3 hackers have shown all that information has been sent in plain text without any form of encryption at all.  If they didn't bother to encrypt that information when transmitting it (which is quite is for someone to intercept) there's probably very little chance it was stored in their servers in an encrypted fashion.  

Think of what happened as the hacker(s) stealing a sheet of paper with all that user information.  If the data was encrypted in some fashion instead of a sheet of paper being stolen, it would have been locked up in some sort of safe.  Even though the hacker has the information, it's not in any usable form til he can figure out a way to crack the safe and if it were double encrypted like most companies do, there would be a second lockbox inside that safe.


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## BasedKiliK (Apr 28, 2011)

Alright, so in conclusion, Sony gets fucked, people get pissed, and some random dudes make off with potentially millions. What a shitstorm.


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## Hakoda (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah, bitch. Deal with it Sony


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## modshroom128 (Apr 28, 2011)

yay everyone on the psn network gets 50 dollars added to their account


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

GentleFist said:
			
		

> and everyone saying sony suing geohot was wrong is stupid too
> 
> its like a guy who breaks a lock of a store open and he doesnt steal anything
> but after that thiefs go into the open store and steal everythingIt's exactly like that, only not like that at all...
> ...


Actually there'd have to be intent for it to be a crime.
So go ahead, prove that Geohot's intent was for this to happen.


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 28, 2011)

sony are out of the console market for sure now


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## FAST6191 (Apr 28, 2011)

I had considered this as a portal news post but for now I am going to call it a regular post. If another member of staff or someone else wishes to do something to make it news feel free.

PSN- the state of things by GBAtemp.

Although it is now a very widespread news story details are still very few and far between. We are going to attempt to do a rundown of what happened, what was said to have happened, some of the concepts involved both legal and technical and try to get a handle on some of the players involved in various things.

In the summer of last year noted hacker Geohot started messing with the PS3 and got some interesting things done and pulled a fair bit apart with a hardware level attack. This was not the first PS3 hack but it was a fairly big one and a lot of nice technical information was generated but it did not progress very far.
Around the same time Sony removed the otherOS functionality from the system. Reasons and logic for it will probably be debated for years to come. It will however be said that those blindly stating “this person caused it” will not be looked upon as a fountain of knowledge. Equally a series of lawsuits (some of which were class action) were filed against Sony for this course of action- most have since been dismissed however.
Apparently as this was going on another group of hackers now known as fail0verflow but previously known for a lot of iphone and console work among other things were trying their hand at some PS3 stuff but that is getting ahead of things.
Shortly after this the so called PS3jailbreak happened and debate as to the history/origin of this and people behind it is still ongoing. It allowed people to play copied PS3 games for the first time and Sony jumped on it fairly quickly- there were a few downgrade attacks and they got a few things done but it became less and less useful as new games and firmwares appeared.
In late December 2010 there was a conference from fail0verflow on the matter of the PS3 covering all that had happened and their own work. You can see this conference here and it provides a very nice backing for most of this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0DkoQjCmI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0DkoQjCmI</a>
This directly led to the PS3 private keys being generated (if you have seen the video it covers it but the quick version is encryption is based on maths and like maths there are little shortcuts which you often want to avoid- Sony failed to avoid them and thus their private keys were released). This is largely unmatched in the history of console hacking (a few calculators had them brute forced recently but this was many years after their heyday vs the PS3 which is still very active).
This opened the floodgates and Geohot also returned to the PS3 providing a few basic tools, some keys (which fail0verflow had neglected to retrieve and/or share ostensibly as it was not directly related to their work) and interesting hacks in fairly short order. Depending on the person you are speaking to though he did not do much beyond this in the actual getting games to run world with that being handled by many others (indeed it could be said Geohot took measures, albeit basic ones, to try and slow progress in some of those arenas).
Sony did their best to step on this but as everything has been compromised there is little they can do. They locked it down at firmware (and higher) level and despite it theoretically not accounting for much (some of the keys are burned into the hardware and we have their private counterparts) it largely seems to have held with <a href="http://gbatemp.net/t289743-mathieu-explains-3-60-exploit" target="_blank">http://gbatemp.net/t289743-mathieu-explains-3-60-exploit</a> being about as far as things have progressed on that front (Sony also apparently introduced a few more measures of protection in the new firmwares)- reasoning for this (many would call there being more than enough hacked/hackable machines to be getting on with to warrant the extra effort) is left for others to debate.
As per most private/custom online networks you need to be at the latest software to use the networks which gets us closer to the present events. For a while a simple DNS/routing hack tricked the PS3 on an older firmware into thinking it had the latest version (in a possible sign of things to come it seemed that the PS3 itself was allowed to check and validate things- traditionally unless it is really not viable you do checks remotely and certainly do not ultimately leave it to a static text file). There were a further few routing and firmware level hacks afterwards that were not quite as widespread (some of them are covered in the IRC logs linked further down) but they did not hold for long.
More recently it was noticed that the network run in parallel to PSN for developers, reviewers and those that justifiably need access to such a network could be accessed via a tweaked PS3 firmware (easy enough to do when you have the keys) and that it was not locked down very well. Some then speculated that those using this new workaround could obtain new games for nothing and that was a reason for PSN being shut down and although it might have been a factor but at present we are not sure of that. <a href="http://gbatemp.net/t290220-rampant-piracy-may-be-to-blame-for-psn-downtime" target="_blank">http://gbatemp.net/t290220-rampant-piracy-...or-psn-downtime</a> has some on that. There are other possible implications for this workaround but we will be returning to them shortly.

Stepping back for moment Sony did not just leave it at the update the firmware level and launched a barrage of sometimes very questionable legal attacks on various people most prominently Geohot and graf_chokolo although others including fail0verflow were hit with various legal attacks (although jurisdiction and other things seemed to have prevented that case from heading far). The case against Geohot was recently settled out of court with serious restrictions placed on Geohot regarding what he can do in the future with Sony equipment (a leaked PDF document of the settlement should be doing the rounds- <a href="http://gbatemp.net/t288233-settlement-in-george-hotz-case?view=findpost&p=3584298" target="_blank">http://gbatemp.net/t288233-settlement-in-g...t&p=3584298</a>  and <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/19/geohot_donation_to_eff/" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/19/ge...onation_to_eff/</a> ) although others appear to still be ongoing.
During the case against Geohot the group (although the word group is taken to be fairly loose) that goes by the name Anonymous apparently took umbrage at Sony's treatment of people involved in the cases and took various actions against Sony. Anonymous' representatives/“leadership” (again the group has in many ways done away with what one might consider  to be a traditional power structure) however deny any directly sanctioned actions in this latest bout <a href="http://www.1up.com/news/anonymous-denies-responsibility-psn-outage" target="_blank">http://www.1up.com/news/anonymous-denies-r...lity-psn-outage</a>.

Fastforward back to the present day the PSN network has been attacked (and since voluntarily shut off by Sony- <a href="http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/26/update-on-playstation-network-and-qriocity/" target="_blank">http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/26/...k-and-qriocity/</a> ) and much of what happened above could even turn out to be somewhat unrelated to the brief history we just described. Before dismissing it though your attention is drawn to the previous lax security on the part of Sony (beyond the would be “unbreakable” main PS3 security) and if further information is desired <a href="http://dpaste.com/536140/plain/" target="_blank">http://dpaste.com/536140/plain/</a> has some (thanks Rydian for that link) and consider that alongside this various private keys for the PSP were also found in the PS3 (every PS3- they are called private keys for a reason).
Sony claims the outage is due to a breach of security in which credit card information may have been retrieved by those that breached the service. We do not know at present if the breach was related to any of this (it being a more conventional attack against a web server- <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDW7kobM6Ik" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDW7kobM6Ik</a> <a href="http://search.theregister.co.uk/?author=Jeff%20Williams" target="_blank">http://search.theregister.co.uk/?author=Jeff%20Williams</a> ), simply spurred one/honed by the information/tools available through the general PS3 hacking work or as a direct result of the open door provided by the hacked “developer” PS3s.
A note on the matter is that it took several days for Sony to come forward with the hack- it is unpleasant but it could be justifiable if a full audit needed to be performed (and for a global service the turnaroud was pretty good).

In addition to this (and in a fairly quick turnaround) several governments both national and international have called for/launched probes into the affair <a href="http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=290474&st=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=290...t=0&start=0</a> and class action lawsuits have been filed against Sony for their part in the matter as well.
On the matter of the EULA/terms of service some have noted a clause* that might provide Sony an out- this is potentially problematic for Sony for several reasons including
TOS is not necessarily legally binding- there are whole law offices devoted to contract law and attempting to get various clauses considered unlawful. EULA and terms of services providing a fair amount of the work such people do or indeed being their sole area (contract law is wide reaching and prone to being highly specialised).
Sony does have a duty of care when it comes to data and their database access- if they can be shown to be negligent in securing it then Sony can be charged. A thing worth noting at this point is that it has been claimed Sony did not follow best practices in the transmission of credit card details (simple SSL encryption rather than the multiple layers usually warranted/required)- this is however a different matter to this present breach which concerns the servers and their databases of numbers rather than say a man in the middle attack against PSN users.
It could also be that the “relevant” section does not apply here even if it is ultimately legally acceptable- it could be interpreted that Sony is not liable for a malicious device on your network (certain solutions may claim a measure of protection against such things- some companies that deal in VPN attempt to offer such assurances) and that as the breach did not happen “when using Sony Online Network”.

*“[Sony is] not liable for any loss of data or any “unauthorized access,” to said data when using Sony Online Network.” .

Make of this what you will- I was seeing a lot of debate that clearly lacked a proper grounding in the matters. If this can help a few people in such matters great.


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## machomuu (Apr 28, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> GentleFist said:
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This is the part where GentleFist makes a funny face like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and then says "I...I don't have any proof..."

God, I play to much Ace Attorney...


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## al5911 (Apr 28, 2011)

Next time treat us nicely Sony. This is a lesson for ya'


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> To simplify what is going on... this is like leaving your house unlocked, doors and windows open and then being surprised when you get robbed.
> Sony didn't encrypt the information the units were sending. *THIS IS A MAJOR SECURITY SCREW UP ON SONY'S PART!*


That's not quite right.
It'd be more like if your landlord unlocked your doors and windows etc.


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## machomuu (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

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Your landlord to your...house?


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## Thesolcity (Apr 28, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

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Get out of my brain!


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## 34®ß0*3® (Apr 28, 2011)

Thesolcity said:
			
		

> Nollog said:
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Enter the Apple TV home gaming console


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## KingdomBlade (Apr 28, 2011)

I really don't get why people want to burn Sony to the ground but nearly no one is talking about looking for the hackers who did this. You know, if someone can somehow capture the hackers, then this whole nightmare will simmer down a bit. The hackers are the ones to blame the most, not Sony. I mean Sony is still to blame for their poor security, but it's still the hackers who hacked it in the first place. Maybe if they ever do find the douches who did this, they're the ones people would sue.

And no, I doubt that they're not going to release the NGP. They've already started development, it's going to cost them even more to let it go.

And even if their gaming sector falls, Sony is a very powerful electronics company first and foremost, and thus the company as a whole will not be destroyed or anything. Before the PS1, Sony was still fucking damn rich. The probable reason why they decided to enter the market is because it was new and a very good investment, with the fall of Sega and all.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Nollog said:
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... Obviously?
Do Americans not RENT?


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## CCNaru (Apr 28, 2011)

Sony probably got in gaming to develop the cd-drive market... which led to square jumping to psx for bigger data size than a nintendo cart which pretty much started off the whole sony console trend.


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## machomuu (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

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Yeah, but that's usually the case with apartments.  Seriously, what is with you and America?  Did you have a bad run-in with Bandit Keith or something?


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## godreborn (Apr 28, 2011)

I wonder what's going to happen with e3.  will sony even show up?  possibly.  will they be booed off stage?  probably.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Nollog said:
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> 
> 
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In _America_?


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

> In _America_?


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 28, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> Nollog said:
> 
> 
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> > In _America_?


fix'd


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

godreborn said:
			
		

> I wonder what's going to happen with e3.  will sony even show up?  possibly.  will they be booed off stage?  probably.



Like they will be booed off the stage... I really hope you were joking. So far the only people booing are the fan boys and hackers.


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## TheDarkSeed (Apr 28, 2011)

I went into Baskin Robins for that 31cent scoop day thing, and ran into some people discissing the security breach. They were all aware of the class action lawsuit and they all wanted to switch to xbox 360 afterwards. 

And I got ice cream!


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## mister_C (Apr 28, 2011)

I would love to see Sony go back to making parts for Nintendo consoles. (of course not network hardware) (SNES had a Sony sound chip I believe)


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## Necron (Apr 28, 2011)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> [Long post]


I love FAST long and well informed posts. Read them, they make you a better person


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## godreborn (Apr 28, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> godreborn said:
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## omgitsmisha (Apr 28, 2011)

Ignoring the financial implications of the class action suit, this is undoubtedly a PR disaster. All eyes are on them, waiting to see what their next move will be. Considering the timing, I don't think anyone (with half a mind) would be surprised if they decided to bow out of a big press conference at this year's E3. It's just too soon, not enough time for damage control.


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## jerome27 (Apr 28, 2011)

CCNaru said:
			
		

> Sony probably got in gaming to develop the cd-drive market... which led to square jumping to psx for bigger data size than a nintendo cart which pretty much started off the whole sony console trend.



No. Multicple CD systems existed before the PSX, not to mention PC games. And the original "Nintendo Playstation" was Nintendo's idea.

On topic. This is the end for Sony. This is the biggest shit storm of karma I've ever seen. God is laying his wrath down on Sony and its never going to end until they are finally driven from the video game market. Billions lost the PS3, from first place to last in one generation. PSP Go a multi million dollar failure. And PSP, despite decent hardware sales can't move software outside of Japan. It's over for Sony. This lawsuit will push them over the edge. And the damage from this hacker fiasco has ruined their already tainted public image forever.


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## DJPlace (Apr 28, 2011)

this is a true statement by me.

nintendo made sony.


what i mean is sony would of merged with nintendo we would of saw nintendo's first cd system in like that late 90's or something other then the gamecube made in 2001

but i got one thing to say

nintendo should of never made those shitty cdi-games for that system. that's why nintendo was scared to team up with sony.

i mean 3 shit zelda games follwed by a mario game. so nintendo stuck it's middle finger at sony. sony said we don't need this shit  were rival's now bitch!!

but on topic i don't care who done it hackers or sony. sony's system should of bounced off those hackers

and one more thing i don't think geohot has nothing to do with this he's probley living on an island or being bubba's little bitch. i bet he's on the island and i'll be damned if psn is not back up by next week
cause i did not pay 20 bucks for nothing for those back to the future games also i hope sony does not turn to the dark side of the xbox which makes player's pay per year month's what ever. the only reason i got a ps3 is for fighters.

also xbox is crap (i'm not dissing xbox owners) i mean look at the paddle it's backwards snes paddle. and it sucks for fighters and also it's only good for FPS and some RPG's maybe i could be wrong all right i'm done with this if anyone want's to debate or whatever just do it.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

godreborn said:
			
		

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To fix it you should revert it back to normal. Sony is trying to fix the issue, who ever boos that is kind of a dumb ass. And who ever says Sony is not trying to fix it is ignorant. Remember, be mad at the hackers, not Sony. As many have said, to expect Sony to cover every possible hacking point before it happens is absurd, that was never gonna happen. And why is Microsoft not hacked? Pretty obvious, no one tried that hard, or the Sony hackers are better than the Microsoft hackers. What I said in my last sentence is actually speculation, just like pretty much everything everyone else is saying. Instead of booing Sony, cheer them on, hope for the best that they can fix this shit hole the hackers put them in.


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## papavader (Apr 28, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> Doesn't make any sense.
> 
> It isn't Sony's fault that they got hacked. A hacker with malicious intents did it. Hopefully, the plaintiff doesn't succeed.
> Thieves did the deed. That is indisputable.
> ...


I will spout you the same inane drivel the next time there is a breach of government info and you are targeted. When you enter a transaction contract with a company they are obligated to do the max they can to protect your data. Any less and you will be wiped out in court.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

papavader said:
			
		

> Whining about whiners.



Welcome to the forums.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Edit : Try not to triple post, papavader.


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## papavader (Apr 28, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> demonicstrife said:
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It sucked because , once there was a breach, getting to the juicy stuff was kids play. It's like a bank with reinforced concrete wall but no vault inside.


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## FireGrey (Apr 28, 2011)

i hate lawsuits!
why can't everyone be happy


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

Maybe they had to break 5 walls, and 3 vaults to get to the juicy stuff. The stories we read about Sony being hacked is just the meat and potatoes (non sugar coated story). Let me guess, they should have used 4 vaults?


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## papavader (Apr 28, 2011)

SoulSnatcher said:
			
		

> TwinRetro said:
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Hyperbole much? If they said "The hackers possibly took data from our databases, but the encryption scheme we use means they can't do anything with it. In any cases be wary for phishing attempts" on the first day, we would not be hearing about lawsuits, or they would not be accepted.

Now we know their security is paper thin and they took six days to announce it to the public. The are responsible.


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## SinHarvest24 (Apr 28, 2011)

People who say Sony's security sucked, needs to gtfo. How do you know Sony security sucked and besides no one knows what level of hackers or how long it took for them to hack into Sony. What i don't get is what the hackers intend to get out of this. They're making 50M+ people very unhappy and some less-notified people angry at Sony for something Sony didn't intended. I've read all over on gaming sites that a lot of Ps3 users are selling their systems and picking up 360/Wii. This will leave a great scar on Sony's gaming career, if not the end of it.


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## KingdomBlade (Apr 28, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> People who say Sony's security sucked, needs to gtfo. How do you know Sony security sucked and besides no one knows what level of hackers or how long it took for them to hack into Sony. What i don't get is what the hackers intend to get out of this. They're making 50M+ people very unhappy and some less-notified people angry at Sony for something Sony didn't intended. I've read all over on gaming sites that a lot of Ps3 users are selling their systems and picking up 360/Wii. This will leave a great scar on Sony's gaming career, if not the end of it.



Information like that can be used to access bank accounts, and other stuff that require that information.

Also, @papavader please stop posting more than once in a row. Just edit your post when you want to say something else.


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

papavader said:
			
		

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Exactly. We heard about this when the breach happened, not when the hackers started hacking.


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## KingVamp (Apr 28, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> Maybe they had to break 5 walls, and 3 vaults to get to the juicy stuff. The stories we read about Sony being hacked is just the meat and potatoes (non sugar coated story). Let me guess, they should have used 4 vaults?


If I was reading correctly, the juicy stuff shouldn't have been so easy to read despite the unbreakable walls and vaults. 

They could at least tried putting the juicy stuff in some kinda of code so it wouldn't have been so easy to read.


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## Nathan Drake (Apr 28, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> People who say Sony's security sucked, needs to gtfo. How do you know Sony security sucked and besides no one knows what level of hackers or how long it took for them to hack into Sony. What i don't get is what the hackers intend to get out of this. They're making 50M+ people very unhappy and some less-notified people angry at Sony for something Sony didn't intended. I've read all over on gaming sites that a lot of Ps3 users are selling their systems and picking up 360/Wii. This will leave a great scar on Sony's gaming career, if not the end of it.



People are dumb. Live went down for 13 days before, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't a "IMMA SELL MAH XBOX


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## KingVamp (Apr 28, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:
			
		

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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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Haha The walls and vaults are the codes you little joker. :>


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## Nathan Drake (Apr 28, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> Nathan Drake said:
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## SinHarvest24 (Apr 28, 2011)

KingdomBlade said:
			
		

> sinharvest24 said:
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I doubt that's their only motive, why target 1 of THE biggest organizations on earth just for money. It would have been safer and easier to hack a smaller less known company and get the required information to obtain money. I want to know why the hackers want to take down Sony especially, if it's revenge then i think they're bit over-reacting.


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## Nathan Drake (Apr 28, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> KingdomBlade said:
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I'm gonna go ahead and assume self righteous hackers were at work. I don't care who you are, an act like this can't be justified. Any justification would be nothing more than excuses.


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## godreborn (Apr 28, 2011)

the tos stating that sony is not liable for unauthorized access and/or theft of credit card numbers and other information means nothing.  the only way something like this would hold merit is if a company (sony) made reasonable attempts to protect this information.  the fact that they didn't makes such a thing as worthless as the *paper* it's written on.


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## opengts (Apr 28, 2011)

Romnerd said:
			
		

> Note to admin - Please can you create an emoticon similar to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sorry, just couldn't help it..


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

opengts said:
			
		

> Romnerd said:
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This might be the best first post in all of GBAtemp history.


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## GreatZimkogway (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

> machomuu said:
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Damnit, you beat me to it~!


Also, was the rumor that everyone's stuff was just on unencrypted, plaintext files?  IF it's true, then guess what, *it's a fact that their security sucked.*


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Also, was the rumor that everyone's stuff was just on unencrypted, plaintext files?  IF it's true, then guess what, *it's a fact that their security sucked.*



No one knows what kind of security they have except for Sony and the hackers. So far the people saying they suck are using speculation. Which is fair, everyone is entitled to say what they think from the info they've gathered.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> opengts said:
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I agree, welcome to GBAtemp. You should be admin.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

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The wording on that is in reference to your account and achievements and things like that, NOT to information like credit cards and personal data which is supposed to be *encrypted* (by law if I'm not mistaken) because of the risks that information poses.


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## nintendoom (Apr 28, 2011)

I sense of NGP less 2011


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

twiztidsinz said:
			
		

> omgpwn666 said:
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Yeah, possibly. I thought it was encrypted, then unencrypted, then sent out as unencrypted by hackers. Not too sure, so you should probably get your security info from twiz.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

> Yeah, possibly. I thought it was encrypted, then unencrypted, then sent out as unencrypted by hackers. Not too sure, so you should probably get your security info from twiz.
> Doing a little searching (this is the first link I clicked from my first search actually), I came across this:
> http://pastebin.com/pazcH1mp
> (It comes from a comment on Kotaku, which I cannot find.)
> ...


Uncited in the link, but here's the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_Card_...rd#Requirements

Point 4 of the PCI DSS requirements: *Encrypt transmission of cardholder data across open, public networks*
The fact is, and NO ONE can deny it: Sony fucked up. Big time.


Here's an article from ArsTechnica about the lack of encryption on credit card info:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/02...rd-security.ars

I'm done looking up info. The majority of people already know this stuff or are being intentionally blind to facts... and I'd rather play some Minecraft or read some comics than trawling the internet for more stories that were news 2 months ago.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

I think most of us know that the data being sent to Sony was unencrypted...the question at this point is...was it stored unencrypted as well?


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## ninditsu (Apr 28, 2011)

opengts said:
			
		

> sorry, just couldn't help it..



i love this. thanks. 

i'm so lucky that i got my credit card replaced and never used psn since exactly a year ago.


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## Snailface (Apr 28, 2011)

The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol. 

http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story


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## Schlupi (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story



You kidding me? What a crock of bullshit.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story



I wonder if that's good.. or bad.

In a way it's good because you don't have a big group.

But bad because you have multiple lawsuits instead of just one, and each person could sue for a different amount....


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## KingVamp (Apr 28, 2011)

Idk I didn't think they are out of game company yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Sony will find some kinda way to come back.


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## Schlupi (Apr 28, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Snailface said:
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Yeah but if the singular people don't win the case then...

And some people like to fall behind class action suits, but they don't like to do it individually because it's more of a hassle.

Trust me I have seen class action suits fall through and almost nobody filed individually.

I wonder how this will go...


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story



Proof positive that even the supreme court can be bought.


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## Thesolcity (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story



BULL....FUCKING...SHIT

WHY??? WHY CAN'T ANYONE BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS ANYMORE? CORPORATIONS CAN MASS-SUE PEOPLE!

.....So why can't we band together and sue them?


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## Snailface (Apr 28, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

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It's bad for consumers because it's not economically viable for them to sue a large company for small amounts of money individually, the legal overhead would prevent most people from getting their money back.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

Schlupi said:
			
		

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Not all... just the Republican ones.


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## Snailface (Apr 28, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Snailface said:
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It's bad. Here's a different way of explaining it:

Let's say you have 100,000 people suing a big company for a $100 error on their ISP billing statement,

With a class action suit you could have a firm of say 5 lawyers representing the class of 100,000 collectively suing for $10 million dollars (100,000 X $100)
The legal expenses would be extremely low per person and could easily be made up in the settlement or judgement. People would get the money their entitled to (assuming the lawyers aren't shysters) and the ISP would learn a $10 million lesson and might try harder to refrain from overcharging.

In individual case suits you would need 100,000 lawyers, one for each unique case! And each case would only be worth about $100 so who's going to bother with the expense and time? To prove a point? The net result is very few lawsuits, no compensation for the wronged customers, and a big company that got away with murder (so to speak).

Now this is starting to set in, it really scares me to think what companies might try to get away with now since class action suits have been effectively blocked. Look for a lot of "accidental" overcharges on your statements, for example -- and that's just the tip of the iceberg. And they'll know damn well your not going to be able to do anything about it. Watch out. This is scary.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

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For some reason, I have a feeling that this is too large a precedent to let go, just like that. I don't think this is the end of class action lawsuits.

Either way though, if CALs are blocked altogether...Well, that means big corps are going to need to sue everyone individually in turn. You can't have it both ways.


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## godreborn (Apr 28, 2011)

it's surprising Clarence Thomas was able to vote considering his busy schedule of raping women...


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## Bladexdsl (Apr 28, 2011)

sony is bribing the fucking courts there's no doubt about it now!


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

> sony is bribing the fucking courts there's no doubt about it now!



Either way, they are shooting themselves and everyone that comes after them in the foot. If class action lawsuits are a thing of the past, Big Money Corporations may have no legal recourse against piracy at all, unless they drag everyone out as individuals.


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## godreborn (Apr 28, 2011)

regardless of the inevitable outcome.  sony has permanently destroyed the playstation brand as well as their reputation.  it's unlikely there will be another iteration of the console.


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## ShadowSoldier (Apr 28, 2011)

Seeing as how this lawsuit was filed BEFORE that voting thing went into effect, will the lawsuit be affected, or does it get immunity from it in this case?


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## FireGrey (Apr 28, 2011)

I want sony to win


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

This kind of shit makes me wonder if legal precedent is absolutely legally enforceable, or can a case break precedent...



			
				FireGrey said:
			
		

> I want sony to win




Look, at this point...no one wins. Sony was a sore loser and took the entire legal system down with it.


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## twiztidsinz (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> This kind of shit makes me wonder if legal precedent is absolutely legally enforceable, or can a case break precedent...Yes, there are some matters that have precedent for both sides of an issue.
> 
> 
> QUOTE(TwinRetro @ Apr 28 2011, 03:22 AM) Look, at this point...no one wins. Sony was a sore loser and took the entire legal system down with it.


Actually the Class Action Block was from AT&T I think... It's just Sony will be able to hugely benefit from it.


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## Snailface (Apr 28, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Seeing as how this lawsuit was filed BEFORE that voting thing went into effect, will the lawsuit be affected, or does it get immunity from it in this case?


That's a good question. My brother is a lawyer, I'll email him and find out.


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## FAST6191 (Apr 28, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> People who say Sony's security sucked, needs to gtfo. How do you know Sony security sucked and besides no one knows what level of hackers or how long it took for them to hack into Sony. What i don't get is what the hackers intend to get out of this. They're making 50M+ people very unhappy and some less-notified people angry at Sony for something Sony didn't intended. I've read all over on gaming sites that a lot of Ps3 users are selling their systems and picking up 360/Wii. This will leave a great scar on Sony's gaming career, if not the end of it.
> 
> I agree some of it is inferred from the PS3 (which on closer examination did not hold up- see the conference video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0DkoQjCmI - not only the key stuff but their poor hypervisor and hard drive stuff) but that does include their network code
> Client side verification of console. Bad
> ...



Version info is not advised but if it is true then as they say it is an old version with known security holes that is worse.

All this and more paints a very very bad picture of Sony security in general and casts very serious doubt over their network security practices. Saying it sucked might be jumping the gun a bit but I would not call it unfounded.

"What i don't get is what the hackers intend to get out of this."
Guessing motives is a tricky game- it might be some level of activism but equally that many cards and that much info can be used to generate a sizeable chunk of change- carding is a tricky game and there are all sorts of ways to make money from it.
The raw data is not something all that useful (you might be able to use it but done wrongly (all too easy to do) you will find yourself in bracelets or worse very very quickly- I imagine this has already attracted the attention of spooks of various flavours as laundering is a possibility with this as is straight up economy implications) but packaged* and sold on to others that do have the infrastructure (and later kids who think having card details is is useful) you get more useful things. 

*one can not assume any one card is viable- there will however probably be a return rate (which varies with time from incident) at which point we actually start looking at more traditional investment finance models. Similarly it is still worth it to compromise a few thousand details- a few million is certainly worth it.

On top of this if it does have address data as well that is useful to other people too.

I am however not that much more knowledgeable on such matters and I am not really inclined to carry on providing a 101 on the subject so I will stop after saying suffice it to say there are serious financial implications for this for the holders of this data- a nice bump for the bottom line on matters of organised crime or more than enough to see the would be hackers made for life for what amounts to a few months work.


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## cwstjdenobs (Apr 28, 2011)

Just really can't see this costing $24 billion. Sony are only worth $29 billion and most of that is made outside of gaming so how could the gaming side incur losses that are almost as large as the entire company.

And bloody hell, Sony must pump a lot of money into the US's politicians and judges.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

sinharvest24 said:
			
		

> People who say Sony's security sucked, needs to gtfo. How do you know Sony security sucked and besides no one knows what level of hackers or how long it took for them to hack into Sony. What i don't get is what the hackers intend to get out of this. They're making 50M+ people very unhappy and some less-notified people angry at Sony for something Sony didn't intended. I've read all over on gaming sites that a lot of Ps3 users are selling their systems and picking up 360/Wii. This will leave a great scar on Sony's gaming career, if not the end of it.


THEY SEND YOUR LOGIN DETAILS TO PSN IN *PLAINTEXT*.
THEY SEND YOU CREDITCARD DETAILS OVER THE INTERNET IN *PLAINTEXT*.
THEY SEND YOUR CHOICE OF GAMES IN *PLAINTEXT* OVER THE INTERNET.

YOU NEED TO ENCRYPT THIS SHIT.
No hacking required, all you would need to do is connect to a PSN server with something you can work with(the only difficult part - Not Hacking!), listen to data coming in, dump it to a text file and have everyone's details.


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## OmegaVesko (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

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+1 my friend.


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## Joe88 (Apr 28, 2011)

why does it matter how its sent?

the database (were everything was stored) was breached and raided so how its transmitted wouldnt matter in this case


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## GameGeek (Apr 28, 2011)

omgpwn666 said:
			
		

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If the data is properly encrypted, the hacker wouldn't (or didn't) have had access to the users' data.


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## azariaspice (Apr 28, 2011)

Seriously, this is bullshit.  It's not like it's their fault.  I'm siding with Sony on this.  It's not hard to change your credit card information (has anyone ACTUALLY had their card stolen?) and most supposedly "personal" information is pretty easy to find anyways.  There's actually a website where you can track where a person has lived, how long, and if they have any criminal records.  Your name, address, and all that isn't exactly a private thing anymore.


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## GameGeek (Apr 28, 2011)

azariaspice said:
			
		

> Seriously, this is bullshit.  It's not like it's their fault.  I'm siding with Sony on this.  It's not hard to change your credit card information (has anyone ACTUALLY had their card stolen?) and most supposedly "personal" information is pretty easy to find anyways.  There's actually a website where you can track where a person has lived, how long, and if they have any criminal records.  Your name, address, and all that isn't exactly a private thing anymore.


I seriously hope this a troll post.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

Joe88 said:
			
		

> why does it matter how its sent?
> 
> the database (were everything was stored) was breached and raided so how its transmitted wouldnt matter in this case


Have Sony said this?
I thought all they said was that users details were at risk from a haxor.
The brat who was ddosing PSN could have left a message saying "lern2encrypt" or something, and Sony could be all "oh no!".


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

azariaspice said:
			
		

> Seriously, this is bullshit.  It's not like it's their fault.  I'm siding with Sony on this.  *It's not hard to change your credit card information (has anyone ACTUALLY had their card stolen?)* and most supposedly "personal" information is pretty easy to find anyways.  There's actually a website where you can track where a person has lived, how long, and if they have any criminal records.  Your name, address, and all that isn't exactly a private thing anymore.



Are you mentally challenged?


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

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You call visa or mastercard, inform them it's been stolen, they issue you a new card.
It is easy, just effort.


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## Wizerzak (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

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Unless the money was already taken in the * six days* it took for Sony to report this.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Wizerzak said:
			
		

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Not to mention that if someone has automatic bill payments coming from that card, like many do...well, It's not just as simple as cancelling the card, right?


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## Warrior522 (Apr 28, 2011)

Wizerzak said:
			
		

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Which is the main issue here.


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## naved.islam14 (Apr 28, 2011)

Serves them right, they deserve it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			























       and :yaynintendo:


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

Wizerzak said:
			
		

> Nollog said:
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You can pay bills automatically from a credit card?
Wow, I want to live there, oh wait I don't since then the economy will go to shit like it just did because people use money they don't have.


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## Rogue_Syst3m (Apr 28, 2011)

yea yea yea, were always shit until someone needs our help


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

> Wizerzak said:
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Wow, obviously you have never heard of a debit card. (Works just like a CREDIT CARD) Are you even old enough to pay bills? Do you even own a bank account? How do you not know these things?

Oh, that's right, because you are speaking on things you have no clue about. Why don't you brush up on US economy a bit before commenting again.


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## geenlung (Apr 28, 2011)

They should give all PSN users a free NGP and call it even =)

*wishful thinking*


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## Hop2089 (Apr 28, 2011)

FireGrey said:
			
		

> I want sony to win



Sony deserves to lose and pay all damages and losses for the negligence, as for the hackers if they are caught (I doubt it), they will be in deep shit.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Wow, obviously you have never heard of a debit card. (Works just like a CREDIT CARD) Are you even old enough to pay bills? Do you even own a bank account? How do you not know these things?
> 
> Oh, that's right, because you are speaking on things you have no clue about. Why don't you brush up on US economy a bit before commenting again.


The poster said credit card. You're stuffing words in their mouths and mine now.

I merely presented facts as to why the poster may not be incorrect. Why you being so forceful and changing what the poster posted?


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## chartube12 (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

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Dumb kid...A debit card, atm card and cash card are all the same dam thing. Plus they work the same way as a credit card. I knew this even when I was very young, so ya your a dumb child.


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## Takanato (Apr 28, 2011)

Sony will probably survive, based on the fact that they're one of the world's biggest companies. Remember they don't only make video games but tvs, music and alot of other shit that gave them the trillions they got.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

Nollog said:
			
		

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To a hacker they can't tell the difference between a Credit Card and a Debit Card. Here in the states, anything that works like a credit card is called a credit card. That's why you see every site that sells shit under the sun ask for your Credit Card number. Not your Debit card number, not your Cash card number...but you can put those in too and it works just fine. 

At this point you're just playing a trivial game of semantics.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 28, 2011)

Takanato said:
			
		

> Sony will probably survive, based on the fact that they're one of the world's biggest companies. Remember they don't only make video games but tvs, music and alot of other shit that gave them the trillions they got.



Their gaming division will most likely disband to cut losses if they lose.  Sony will survive, they are swimming in money, but as a gaming company they will fall.


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## Nollog (Apr 28, 2011)

TwinRetro said:
			
		

> Nollog said:
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Credit card requires no money in an account, the rest do.
They may look like they work similarly in practice to you when you use them, but they are very different.
Also, sure is name-calling and srslerz ironic 'round here.
Lern2bemoreadultbro.


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## Maedhros (Apr 28, 2011)

Where are the people defending the hackers now?

Good lord, this is too fucked up.


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## Hop2089 (Apr 28, 2011)

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6310549.html?...ews%3Btitle%3B1

No evidence CC data was stolen, we can put that to rest.


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## Rayder (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story




Oh, but corporations and governments aren't evil and corrupt, right?  What this will mean is that the individual will almost never again win a major case against any corporation because they will never have enough money to compete against those corporations by themselves, regardless of how justified their suit might have been.  Wasn't that one of the main reasons for class-action in the first place, to protect the public? Just another step in the systematic screwing of the non-rich-bastard public.  The rich bastards are taking over and anyone who isn't a rich bastard is at their mercy.  The rich bastards are stacking everything in their favor and regular people are supposed to just take it up the ass with whatever bullshit they decide suits THEM best.

And you're a damn fool if you think otherwise.

I'll have to be honest though, if I was a rich bastard, I'd probably do the same thing if I could.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Sony can burn for all I care, but the fact of the matter is that all this trouble they're in now won't really hurt them as much as it SHOULD.  They might have to drop out of gaming for a while, but they have many other markets where they can continue their shenanigans.  The only ones who WILL be (and are being) hurt are the regular people who aren't rich enough to have laws written in their favor, or to put a judge in their pocket (and don't tell that's not happening).   And the hacker who caused all this?  That person should be treated like an international terrorist and dealt with accordingly once they are caught.....if they are caught.


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## MelodieOctavia (Apr 28, 2011)

I have severe doubts that this precedent will stick Rayder. If it does, I have no hope left fpr this country.


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## ProtoKun7 (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't have a PSN account so at least this doesn't concern me.



			
				TwinRetro said:
			
		

> opengts said:
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(first)


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## kudaku (Apr 28, 2011)

does no one here feel bad for the workers at sony (who are not part of the team that's responsible for the security) ... if sony is gone...lots of ppl will lose jobs... i mean Sony isn't just one person, there are people there who are just trying to make a living too...


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## Hells Guardian (Apr 28, 2011)

I feel sorry for the low level employees and the people trying to make an honest living but Not for the F***ing a**holes running the company! Yeah it's not there fault they are the pawns of war...


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## omgpwn666 (Apr 28, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> The US Supreme Court just threw Sony a big bone today, lol.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428...0,1239412.story
> 
> ...



Hell yeah! Go Sony!


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## Ace Overclocked (Apr 29, 2011)

die or just die SONY
but i really feel bad for these honest workers that will lose their jobs because of the owners
better solution let's change the presidents


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## DarkShinigami (Apr 29, 2011)

i heard they might have ta refund psn users for this (not the lawsuite the psn breach) ios this true?  i cant remember what message board i heard it at if i remember ill tell youse


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

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_Lex retro non agit_, meaning that Law does not work backwards.


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## OmegaVesko (Apr 29, 2011)

If their gaming division goes bankrupt, I will pay $100 to see Jack Tretton out of a job.


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## kenpachi (Apr 29, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> This company just can't catch a break. I _almost_ feel sorry for them.



You know I almost did too. I used to be the biggest sony fan. I bought EVERYTHING sony, $1400 recievers, mp3 players, camera's, tv's, game systems, you name it. But they have truly become a company I can no longer support with their actions. To me it's clear that their aging management is stuck in the era of the walkman where they wer untouchable. THey think just because they USED to be the greatest electronics company in the world that it means that they can treat their customers like dog crap and get away with it. They need to change their management and realize that piracy is going to happen, regaurdless. of course do what you can WITHOUT impacting your customers and live with it like EVERY OTHER company. I'm just about done with sony...


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## GreatZimkogway (Apr 29, 2011)

aminemaster said:
			
		

> die or just die SONY
> but i really feel bad for these honest workers that will lose their jobs because of the owners
> better solution let's change the presidents



What the FLYING FUCK does who the president is currently have ANYTHING to do with this?!  Seriously!  Use your brain!  It has nothing to do with this!


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## Law (Apr 29, 2011)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

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THIS IS ALL OBAMAS FAULT! IF HIS COMMUNIST WAYS DIDN'T ENCOURAGE GIVING THINGS TO PEOPLE FOR FREE, PEOPLE WOULDN'T THINK THEY'RE ENTITLED TO FREE GAMES AND START PIRATING!

Oh GBAtemp you crazy bastard.


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## JPhantom (Apr 29, 2011)

the major difference between a credit card and a debit card is in who has the money while a charge is being contested.  that and the awful problem of blocking and how it can cause bounced checks and fees.  also the laws protecting the consumer are different.  debit cards are protected under the weaker electronic funds transfer act.  debit cards differ substantially in risks to the consumer


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## Foxi4 (Apr 29, 2011)

OmegaVesko said:
			
		

> If their gaming division goes bankrupt, I will pay $100 to see Jack Tretton out of a job.



Sure. Because they totally didn't boost their sales by 135% and they didn't do 564 million dolars between October and December alone. They're getting bankrupt, I tell ya.


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## godreborn (Apr 30, 2011)

their gaming division deserves to go bankrupt.  look at how they treat their customers: "$599 U.S. dollars, people will buy it even if it has no games, our fans are like sheep--they'll flock in droves to buy it, people will work two jobs for one" and my personal favorite: "we love our fans so much that we aren't even going to encrypt any of their data..."

btw, I too would pay to see Jack Tretton out of a job. hahaha!!


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## DrOctapu (Apr 30, 2011)

FireGrey said:
			
		

> I want sony to win


Why? Oh, and that's a nice signature you have there. It's a shame there aren't any numbers in it.
EDIT: Also, 10% of PSN users should get one of the millions of unsold PSP Gos sitting around their warehouses.


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## KazoWAR (Apr 30, 2011)

I bet noone at Sony knew it would lead to this after making the decision to remove OtherOS.


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## redsmas (Apr 30, 2011)

I think this wasn't an attack to get the information of the Sony users, I think it was an act of spite.

Also I now lol at sony fanboys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(do you think Nintendo could have hired someone to do this)


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## MeritsAlone (Apr 30, 2011)

Sigh...
I have to admit, news like this doesnt make things more positive. And especially since im starting to develop a very strong hate against them and the trolls who keeps spamming on youtube "LOL PSN IS DOWN! GET XBOX NOOBZ!".

No offence.


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