# Wii U is by far the worst selling Nintendo console of all time



## Saiyan Lusitano (May 2, 2016)

Twitter​
By the looks of it if things don't improve then there'll hardly be an audience for Nintendo home consoles due to being in a constant decline. It goes in the following order, NES > SNES > N64 > NGC > Wii U and I'm just not including Wii because that was a console that literally everyone bought although only to then either pawn it, store in their closet or have it as a dust collector.

This'll make things interesting if the NX will change anything at all.


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## CeeDee (May 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Wii U and I'm just not including Wii U


Well, that's quite redundant.


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## SLiV3R (May 2, 2016)

This is bullshit. There are 10s of other consoles that has sold worse. For example Atari 7800, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Game Gear, WonderSwan, Neo Geo, Nintendo Virtual Boy, 3DO etc. etc.


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## holyluigi (May 2, 2016)

you don't know the virtual boy then ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

'Cause Nintendo got lucky with one gimmick and decided that they would base their entire future on gimmick controllers. Big mistake.
Never abandon the core of any business for a gimmick or a fad. Fads fade, the core business is what steers the course.

If Nintendo continues to make weird controllers shaped like a boot or one that you can wear as a hat, or whatever, they are doomed. If they go back to the core business and just make a great gaming console, than they will have a future.

That's why I get upset every time I see some retarded Nintendo gimmick controller patent, its like they didn't learn a single thing from Wii U. The same childish gimmicks will drive them out of business.



SLiV3R said:


> This is bullshit. There are 10s of other consoles that has sold worse. For example Atari 7800, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Game Gear, WonderSwan, Neo Geo, Nintendo Virtual Boy, 3DO etc. etc.



I think he means core Nintendo console.


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## GalladeGuy (May 2, 2016)

Here's a list of consoles that probably sold a lot less than the Wii U: Nintendo Virtual Boy, Atari 7800, Sega Nomad, Sega Saturn... And the list goes on.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (May 2, 2016)

Sonic_Cee_Dee said:


> Well, that's quite redundant.


Crap. I forgot to keep the "U" out. 


holyluigi said:


> you don't know the virtual boy then ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


Virtual Boy isn't a home console.


GalladeGuy said:


> Here's a list of consoles that probably sold a lot less than the Wii U: Nintendo Virtual Boy, Atari 7800, Sega Nomad, Sega Saturn... And the list goes on.


This is specifically about Nintendo home consoles only although I forgot to add that to the title.


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## Veho (May 2, 2016)

I edited the title to avoid confusion.


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## GalladeGuy (May 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Crap. I forgot to keep the "U" out.
> 
> Virtual Boy isn't a home console.
> 
> This is specifically about Nintendo home consoles only although I forgot to add that to the title.


Uh, technically, the Virtual Boy is a home console since it isn't portable. And how about the Nes Model-101 or the N64 DD?


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

GalladeGuy said:


> Uh, technically, the Virtual Boy is a home console since it isn't portable. And how about the Nes Model-101 or the N64 DD?


Those are nit picking, that's like saying the Sega 32X or Sega CD or the Sega 32X CD are all individual console generations. Though technically true, but not really true at the same time.


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## GalladeGuy (May 2, 2016)

KSP said:


> Those are nit picking, that's like saying the Sega 32X or Sega CD or the Sega 32X CD are all individual console generations. Though technically true, but not really true at the same time.


Okay, fine. Then how about the Gamecube. It barely sold any better than the Wii U.


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## Deleted member 370671 (May 2, 2016)

GalladeGuy said:


> Okay, fine. Then how about the Gamecube. It barely sold any better than the Wii U.


Wii U: 13 million units.
GameCube: almost 22 million units
It's almost two times more


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## DiscostewSM (May 2, 2016)

GalladeGuy said:


> Uh, technically, the Virtual Boy is a home console since it isn't portable. And how about the Nes Model-101 or the N64 DD?



Heck, if the Virtual Boy isn't considered a home console by people because it doesn't require a TV, then neither is the Wii U (for the most part).


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## keven3477 (May 2, 2016)

People seem to hate the wiiu and don't seem to like it for what is worth, yes i know it has a small library but most of the games are good. I currently have a PlayStation 4 which came with the so called famous game fallout 4, and I still haven't bothered to play it much because I am more entertained with my wiiu console. sure it might not be doing well but I don't believe it deserves to be the worst console.


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## the_randomizer (May 2, 2016)

Bad sales or not, the console still has a lot of good games that can be enjoyed   The console was just horrendously marketed.  I think that there are a lot of people out there that hate the Wii U either because they don't think the console has good games, or that they simply hate it for the sake of hating.


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## amoulton (May 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> there'll hardly be an audience


Is that the same as Samsung "hardly having an audience" because it loses the number one spot to Apple? They are turning a profit- that's what companies do- being number one is an idealistic goal that is 100% unnecessary.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> Bad sales or not, the console still has a lot of good games that can be enjoyed   The console was just horrendously marketed.  I think that there are a lot of people out there that hate the Wii U either because they don't think the console has good games, or that they simply hate it for the sake of hating.


No, Nintendo lost there way since GameCube, they got very lucky with Wii since it was a huge fad due to its moco ability, but since Wii they've been making consoles that are incapable of running most of third party developer's AAA titles. This is what's truly wrong with Wii U.

Since Wii, Nintendo has made consoles, significantly weaker than their competition, thus incapable of running any third party developers biggest sellers on par, so what happens is true core gamers end up getting the competition consoles, and third party devs unable to make their AAA games run properly due to hardware limitations start to abandon the Nintendo console. It becomes a vicious cycle, where more and third party devs start to drop support for Nintendo in favor of XB1 and PS4 both capable of running more of less the same caliber of games. With fewer and fewer third part devs supporting Nintendo's inferior hardware, more and more core gamers start to drop Nintendo's console and move onto MS and Sony branded hardware.

If you look at Nintendo's heydays, they were always on par with their competition in terms of sheer hardware capability and always enjoyed descent if not stellar third party support. No console can survive without third party support, hence releasing hardware parity with your competition is vital to being able to maintain a sustainable business. Nintendo dropped the ball with Wii, they started to believe in their own myth, they actually believed that releasing hardware that was one generation behind its competition was a viable business move, and Wii U showed them that they were wrong. As a third party dev, you will not go out of your way to nerf your biggest AAA title to run on inferior hardware, you will just pass on that hardware to develop on hardware that will run your biggest titles. This what Nintendo did not fully understand until it was too late.

But it sounds like Nintendo intends to rectify this with NX, who knows.


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## The Real Jdbye (May 2, 2016)

What they really need is another miracle like the Wii, they were probably hoping for that with the Wii U but it failed miserably. Despite its financial failure I thought the GameCube was a great console. The Wii U not so much, though it had a few great first party games it's still really lacking in games. I would be happy with another relatively unsuccessful console like the GameCube as long as it has good first party support and at least a few third party titles I will want to get.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

The Real Jdbye said:


> What they really need is another miracle like the Wii, they were probably hoping for that with the Wii U but it failed miserably. Despite its financial failure I thought the GameCube was a great console. The Wii U not so much, though it had a few great first party games it's still really lacking in games. I would be happy with another relatively unsuccessful console like the GameCube as long as it has good first party support and at least a few third party titles I will want to get.


The GameCube was actually technically very powerful for its generation capable of running all the cross platform games better than its competition. It was the last time Nintendo made a powerful console, they pretty just recycled the GC design and released again as the Wii with motion controller and got lucky. It was the beginning of the end for them, since Wii marked the beginning of Nintendo rendering themselves 1 entire generation behind its competition in terms of hardware parity and sealed the fate for the end of third party support for Nintendo consoles.


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## dimmidice (May 2, 2016)

SLiV3R said:


> This is bullshit. There are 10s of other consoles that has sold worse. For example Atari 7800, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Game Gear, WonderSwan, Neo Geo, Nintendo Virtual Boy, 3DO etc. etc.


he said nintendo consoles though. and not handhelds.


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## CLOUD9RED (May 2, 2016)

I don't care about those statistics, does it mean the console is bad? Not necessarily. Good films are not necessarily major blockbusters, great albums are not necessarily topping the charts. For each his own, but I enjoy my Wii U and that's what matters!


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## The Real Jdbye (May 2, 2016)

KSP said:


> The GameCube was actually technically very powerful for its generation capable of running all the cross platform games better than its competition. It was the last time Nintendo made a powerful console, they pretty just recycled the GC design and released again as the Wii with motion controller and got lucky. It was the beginning of the end for them, since Wii marked the beginning of Nintendo rendering themselves 1 entire generation behind its competition in terms of hardware parity and sealed the fate for the end of third party support for Nintendo consoles.


That's true, though I'm not so sure that that's the reason the Wii U is selling so poorly. Hopefully they will fix that with the NX though, I would really like to see what Zelda would look like on such a console.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

The Real Jdbye said:


> That's true, though I'm not so sure that that's the reason the Wii U is selling so poorly. Hopefully they will fix that with the NX though, I would really like to see what Zelda would look like on such a console.


Its selling poorly because it has no games. Wii U is essentially a first party only console. No console has ever survived with zero third party support, not even Nintendo can pump out enough titles to satisfy an entire generation cycle.

The main reason why it has zero third party support is cause its essentially a beefed up PS3 with a ipad controller. It can't really run any of the new third party games being released, i.e The Witcher 3, Need for Speed, Mad Max, Assassin's Creed Syndicate, Fallout, Batman, etc, etc. Even current gen consoles have trouble running most third party AAA titles, so Wii U has no chance at all. And when your console has no third party support, people start to flee like rats on a sinking ship, most core gamers either own a PS4 or XB1, cause that's where all the best looking games are at. So, it creates a vicious cycle, no third party, people flee, more people flee, less games get released, and it goes on. Until you have a console that is only supported by Nintendo which really, doesn't cut it for most people.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (May 2, 2016)

DiscostewSM said:


> Heck, if the Virtual Boy isn't considered a home console by people because it doesn't require a TV, then neither is the Wii U (for the most part).


Nintendo advertised it as a handheld device so it's what it is. The Wii U GamePad is a horrible caveman technology tablet which should have sold separately than as a requirement.



the_randomizer said:


> Bad sales or not, the console still has a lot of good games that can be enjoyed   The console was just horrendously marketed.  I think that there are a lot of people out there that hate the Wii U either because they don't think the console has good games, or that they simply hate it for the sake of hating.



It's about the really atrocious sales and terrible marketing.



CLOUD9RED said:


> I don't care about those statistics, does it mean the console is bad? Not necessarily. Good films are not necessarily major blockbusters, great albums are not necessarily topping the charts. For each his own, but I enjoy my Wii U and that's what matters!



Again, it's in regards to how poorly it's doing in sales and also lack of third party support plus the exclusive games aren't really all that great.


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## DiscostewSM (May 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Nintendo advertised it as a handheld device so it's what it is. The Wii U GamePad is a horrible caveman technology tablet which should have sold separately than as a requirement.



It wasn't advertised as a handheld. For one thing, you did not hold the unit in your hands. If anything, it was advertised as portable, but then along those same lines, the Wii U would be portable too. Heck, Wii U would be considered more portable than the Virtual Boy.


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## The Real Jdbye (May 2, 2016)

KSP said:


> Its selling poorly because it has no games. Wii U is essentially a first party only console. No console has ever survived with zero third party support, not even Nintendo can pump out enough titles to satisfy an entire generation cycle.
> 
> The main reason why it has zero third party support is cause its essentially a beefed up PS3 with a ipad controller. It can't really run any of the new third party games being released, i.e The Witcher 3, Need for Speed, Mad Max, Assassin's Creed Syndicate, Fallout, Batman, etc, etc. Even current gen consoles have trouble running most third party AAA titles, so Wii U has no chance at all. And when your console has no third party support, people start to flee like rats on a sinking ship, most core gamers either own a PS4 or XB1, cause that's where all the best looking games are at. So, it creates a vicious cycle, no third party, people flee, more people flee, less games get released, and it goes on. Until you have a console that is only supported by Nintendo which really, doesn't cut it for most people.


People don't buy consoles for the multiplatform titles though. Maybe some people do, who don't have money for a decent gaming PC, but most people don't. The exclusives are what matter.


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## CLOUD9RED (May 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Nintendo advertised it as a handheld device so it's what it is. The Wii U GamePad is a horrible caveman technology tablet which should have sold separately than as a requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know it's about the sales, but what EXTRA does it bring us knowing now that the console sold badly?


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## tbb043 (May 2, 2016)

More like "I'm just not including Wii because that doesn't fit the NintenDOOMED narrative I'm trying to spin,"


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

KSP said:


> 'Cause Nintendo got lucky with one gimmick and decided that they would base their entire future on gimmick controllers. Big mistake.
> Never abandon the core of any business for a gimmick or a fad. Fads fade, the core business is what steers the course.
> 
> If Nintendo continues to make weird controllers shaped like a boot or one that you can wear as a hat, or whatever, they are doomed. If they go back to the core business and just make a great gaming console, than they will have a future.
> ...



wiiu gamepad is not a gimmick.
you are wrong.



> like a boot or one that you can wear as a hat, or whatever


you are a troll , or a stupid or a ignorant or you believe to be funny writing these stupid and ignorant things probably...ehhhhh no...you are not funny



> retarded Nintendo gimmick controller patent


again another retarted statement... you ignore because you are an ignorant person about how patenting works.




> The same childish gimmicks will drive them out of business.


are you "childish retarted" (using your own words)?

LOL at people like you...go buy a Ps4 and be happy instead of :



> That's why I get upset every time



you are a ignorant masochist childish retarted  person.

/s


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## ov3rkill (May 2, 2016)

Not as low as virtual boy which is already considered a rare console. haha. Around 100k units sold for virtual boy if i'm not mistaken.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

The Real Jdbye said:


> People don't buy consoles for the multiplatform titles though. Maybe some people do, who don't have money for a decent gaming PC, but most people don't. The exclusives are what matter.


They buy consoles to play the most games that available in the market, which includes multiplats and exclusives. Right now Wii U has zero multiplats only first party exclusives made by Nintendo, which pretty much eliminates the bulk of the current gen's library of titles.
First party exclusives always make up the minority, with the majority of each gen's library composed of multiplats and third party exclusives. Right now Nintendo has zero third party exclusives, and zero third party multiplats, which means they have a very small library of games, not enough for any true core gamer.

I.E, Mad Max, Batman Arkham Knight, Assassin's Creed Syndicate, Need for Speed, The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, The Division, Rainbowsix Siege, etc, etc, etc. These are the games that make up the bulk of this current gen's library of titles, each console will have their exclusives here and there, but by and large, most the library are composed of third party multiplats, which Nintendo has none of.

Which essentially leaves the Wii U fanbase to only the most hardcore Nintendo fans, who will buy a console just to play the latest Zelda game, but sadly that leaves out everyone else.

This is why Nintendo is losing the console war badly.

Like I said, no console has ever thrived with zero third party support, Nintendo is no exception. Because third party not only makes multiplats but they also make exclusives, I.E Street Fighter V, Tomb Raider, etc, etc.

No console manufacturer can ever survive solely on first party development.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



nintendarium said:


> wiiu gamepad is not a gimmick.
> you are wrong.
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, you done being a fanboy now? I think there are still a few spots on Miyamoto's ass that has shit on it, finish your job and keep licking.


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## cvskid (May 2, 2016)

How about the Apple Pippin? Don't think that sold too well.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> LOL
> read my posts history I was quite critic even against Nintendo managment...
> 
> this is a shit posting thread...I only took the worst shit post...that was yours...
> ...


When you're done licking Miyamoto's ass. They're a few new execs at Nintendo that need a thorough cleaning as well.

LOL, gee a I wonder who's a Nintendo fanboy who can't stand criticism of Nintendo. Maybe the dude with the user name Nintendarium. LOL

If you're gonna be a childish fanboy, at least choose a better username. Here's one "nintendoasskisser" has a nice ring don't you think.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## KingpinSlim (May 2, 2016)

I neither care for, nor care about this discussion.
I enjoy my Wii U. I also enjoy my PS4 and my Xbox One.
Nintendo will keep releasing consoles and i will buy them.
Mostly because i just buy all consoles that get released and then not having to worry about missing any great games.

But thats not actually the reason i replied to this thread.
Nintendarium posted this:



nintendarium said:


> you are a ignorant masochist childish retarted  person.
> /s



I really could not care LESS what your opinion on consoles, companies or video-gaming as a whole is Nintendarium.
The only thing i actually care about is your horrendous and offensive behavior.
I think that, even if our opinions may differ, we can still speak to each other in a civilized and courteous manner. Something you obviously do not know how to do.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## KingpinSlim (May 2, 2016)

If you speak like a Troll and do nothing but Flamebait, then i do not care wether you are doing it "ironically" or not.
If you behave like that then you are a Troll and a Flamebaiter.

The intent of this entire thread is to bait people into spamming and only fanboys or haters are going to reply to such threads in the first place.

You do not lead a productive discussion and this was never your intent. This entire thread reads like a group of 9 year old boys screaming at each other on a playground. It is immature and pointless, because it contributes absolutely nothing.

Every console has its merits and targets a different demographic. Some are more successful than others.

Don't like the console? Fine. Don't buy it, but please spare us your spamming, or do you actually think your pointless opinions are relevant to anyone?


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## InsaneNutter (May 2, 2016)

Yes on paper the Wii U failed, however to me it's been a good investment and a good console. At the end of the day the Wii U is something a bit different, however the games it does have you will not find games like them on rival platforms.

I've only owned my Wii U for around 10 months, however I love that loads of games support 4+ players on one console. The Xbox One has been a letdown this generation in regards to local multiplayer, and fun games in general. (I loved all the arcade style games on the 360). Sadly you can't even split screen co-op Halo anymore and multiplayer is 1 person per console, with no option to even system link.

What I have loved about the Wii U in comparison to the Xbox One is I can have a few mates over, we can cram together on the sofa and enjoy some good classic gaming just like when we were younger. Even better you can hack the vWii and you essentially have one console which can emulate every single past Nintendo console, along with many others.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> right ...
> 
> if people like to make thread like this is ok... jokes ect ect.
> 
> ...


LOL I like how you justify your insolence, by saying that I also used childish and retarded in my original post. Good defense.

But, when did I use the word "masochist" or "stupid" or "ignorant"  Aha, you see your logic fails.

So, now you realize what kind of a vile person you really are. Sad, when someone so vile can exist in this fine forum.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> insolence???
> 
> you were the only one here that posted those words ... just accept it ...


Your logic for you being such a vile creature is that you use my own words that I used for Nintendo against me. I can accept this.

But when did I use  *"masochist" *or* "stupid"* or *"ignorant"?
*
It seems your logic only works when it serves you. I never used those words in my original post, thus they came straight from your vile mouth.

So, really you weren't really using my words to offend me, you were actually just being a vile vile creature that you are.

Such a fine place like this has no need for you vile mouthed creatures such as you. Maybe find another place to flame.

But with all the ass kissing that you do for Nintendo I can see why you have such a potty mouth. lol


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## KingpinSlim (May 2, 2016)

Your arguments, your insults and your defensive behavior when confronted are all equally pointless.

You lack the emotional maturity to converse with other human beings.

/thread


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> LOL
> "vile"
> I would call vile a person that uses words lik4 "retarted" because such a persone is very disrespectful for people that really live this condition...


Can we face the fact that you are vile potty mouth and be done with it. Stop pretending that you were using my own words against me, when half the things that you said, never came out of my mouth.

You came on here to flame, and bait others into flaming, job done, pat yourself on the back and learn some manners.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

*gbatemp lost member because community is childish*


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> no the only fact that nobody can deny here is that you use the word "retarted" in a context that does not require the use of that *VILE WORD*


How is it not in context? I find most of Nintendo gimmick controller patents to be retarded. What part of that is not in context.

You can disagree with me. But doesn't change my opinion.


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## SirAileron (May 2, 2016)

I find it interesting that if you ignore the Wii's success, the Wii U sales actually fall in line with the rest of the chart's decline. It's definitely a solid indicator that the Wii's success was an unnatural lucky break.

Power does indeed win the race, but Nintendo doesn't necessarily know what its true strength is, and while the DS family is a powerhouse and the Wii was a juggernaut, the pressure to "reinvent the wheel" every generation is like the kiss of death.


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## Deleted User (May 2, 2016)

hmm for me the wii u isnt that bad, aslong as i have a few games that make the wiiu worth the money =D



Spoiler



i love how some people like to backseat mod


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## SirAileron (May 2, 2016)

Man, Splatoon finally convinced me of exactly how amazing the Wii U's gyroscope can be when used with aiming. And then Zelda games had to come out and prove that programmers still don't know shit about how to use it correctly.

Seriously, gyro aiming is great when done correctly. You can really tell that Nintendo wasn't quite hands-on as they really should have been with their Zelda remasters. All four of them. :|


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## The Real Jdbye (May 2, 2016)

KSP said:


> They buy consoles to play the most games that available in the market, which includes multiplats and exclusives. Right now Wii U has zero multiplats only first party exclusives made by Nintendo, which pretty much eliminates the bulk of the current gen's library of titles.
> First party exclusives always make up the minority, with the majority of each gen's library composed of multiplats and third party exclusives. Right now Nintendo has zero third party exclusives, and zero third party multiplats, which means they have a very small library of games, not enough for any true core gamer.
> 
> I.E, Mad Max, Batman Arkham Knight, Assassin's Creed Syndicate, Need for Speed, The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, The Division, Rainbowsix Siege, etc, etc, etc. These are the games that make up the bulk of this current gen's library of titles, each console will have their exclusives here and there, but by and large, most the library are composed of third party multiplats, which Nintendo has none of.
> ...


They do have some multiplats such as Batman: Arkham City and Darksiders 2, I agree it isn't much, however I still don't think that's why people buy a console. People buy consoles for the exclusives, sure the multiplats are a bonus but they aren't the priority.


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## KingpinSlim (May 2, 2016)

The Real Jdbye said:


> They do have some multiplats such as Batman: Arkham City and Darksiders 2, I agree it isn't much, however I still don't think that's why people buy a console. People buy consoles for the exclusives, sure the multiplats are a bonus but they aren't the priority.


I understand the point you are making and what you are saying is absolutely correct.. but this line of argument only applies to enthusiasts and collectors.
You and me know that consoles survive and prosper because of quality exclusive titles, but we are not the main demographic that console makers are selling to.
Most people who buy gaming-systems are casuals who know nothing about the hardware, the companies or even the essential IPs.
They don't necessarily even buy a console because of great games they have played on other systems in the past.
They buy consoles because of advertising and word of mouth.
Enthusiasts haven't been the focus of the entertainment industry for quite some time now.
Those kinds of people do not own expensive gaming-computers and wouldn't even know what CPU and GPU stand for and THOSE people are the ones who in the end decide the fate of a console. The lowest common denominator.
Try and look at the modern-day gaming industry from this viewpoint and some things that may have seemed strange before, now suddenly seem perfectly logical.

EDIT: Compare the 3DS and Vita simply by merit of their performance and price-point.
A Vita is vastly superior to a 3DS in absolutely every aspect and the gaming press early on was certain without a doubt that the Vita has already won this generations console war right when both systems launched. Back then the Vita actually had a lot more appealing games than the 3DS had at the time as well, but the Vita DIDN'T win. It failed, miserably.
How can that be then? Easy. We are enthusiasts and know perfectly well that from a pure hardware-standpoint the Vita was the superior plattform... but only WE knew that. Most other people nowadays have absolutely no idea what a Vita even is and THAT is the actual demographic that decided this "console war". Not us.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

KingpinSlim said:


> I understand the point you are making and what you are saying is absolutely correct.. but this line of argument only applies to enthusiasts and collectors.
> You and me know that consoles survive and prosper because of quality exclusive titles, but we are not the main demographic that console makers are selling to.
> Most people who buy gaming-systems are casuals who know nothing about the hardware, the companies or even the essential IPs.
> They don't necessarily even buy a console because of great games they have played on other systems in the past.
> ...


Well said. Like I said, at this rate Nintendo will be relegated to only hardcore fans.  Which sadly means you lose the console wars.

People, regular people, buy 1 console per gen, and they expect to be able to play all the cool games that they hear about with that 1 console. If they don't get it, they drop the console and get another one. Only a small minority of people like us own every single console. 

If half the games that are being advertised and being talked about are not on Nintendo's console, Nintendo is dead in the water.

This is why hardware parity is so important in console design. Hardware parity allows your console to get every game from every developer, then you win the console war by making or buying the best exclusives for your console to pull gamers towards your system, but the foundation of the war is making sure your console can play everything that comes out for that gen.

By the way, I like the 3DS better than the Vita, one reason 3D. The 3D was what sold me, even got the N3DS for better 3D. LOL


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## The Real Jdbye (May 2, 2016)

KingpinSlim said:


> I understand the point you are making and what you are saying is absolutely correct.. but this line of argument only applies to enthusiasts and collectors.
> You and me know that consoles survive and prosper because of quality exclusive titles, but we are not the main demographic that console makers are selling to.
> Most people who buy gaming-systems are casuals who know nothing about the hardware, the companies or even the essential IPs.
> They don't necessarily even buy a console because of great games they have played on other systems in the past.
> ...


That's a very good point. I do think that the Wii U would have done better if they had advertised it better. They barely bothered to advertise it from the get go and they never made a proper attempt to rescue the system. They basically just let it die peacefully.

I do think the 3DS has more quality titles than the Vita but that might just be me. The 3DS is far more successful than the Wii U ever was, though it had a rough start with the launch titles all being mediocre or shovelware. There was not one good title for the system. The Wii U had Nintendoland which was a lot of fun but it didn't help. The 3DS got a lot of quality titles over time though, and that's where the Wii U was really lacking, at least to me. One or two titles worth buying a year just isn't enough. The 3DS had plenty of them and even if many of them were ports, like Star Fox 64 3D, OoT3D and MM3D, it had a reasonable amount of exclusives too. In my eyes the sheer number of quality titles for the 3DS easily wins over what the Vita has to offer, even if it's inferior hardware-wise.


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## SickPuppy (May 2, 2016)

Blame Nintendo for poor sales. 



SLiV3R said:


> This is bullshit. There are 10s of other consoles that has sold worse. For example Atari 7800, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn, Game Gear, WonderSwan, Neo Geo, Nintendo Virtual Boy, 3DO etc. etc.



That don't mean that the Wii U is doing good. The Wii U will be added to the list of consoles you got there. I did my part and bought two Wii U and what a mistake that was.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

The Vita died, because Sony underestimated how much devs need to spend making handheld games that are of AAA standard.
Vita hardware-wise is superior but because of the massive design bump needed to fully utilize that great hardware, devs needed to move massive dev resources to making those game. And given how cheap handheld games are compared to home console, devs just didn't wanna spend the money to make what are essentially PS3 level graphics for a handheld market.

It was an odd case, where Sony overshot the console curve, and the system way too powerful than anyone ever wanted to develop for. Why would any dev spend millions developing a Vita game when they can spend far less developing a 3DS game. They might as well put that money towards PS4 game development.  Which is why VIta is now the home to Weeb RPGs using flat 2D art, and basic turned based systems. This reflects how much money devs wanna spend on Vita game dev.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (May 2, 2016)

CLOUD9RED said:


> I know it's about the sales, but what EXTRA does it bring us knowing now that the console sold badly?


Maybe like, lack of more and better games. Wii U doesn't even have a Zelda exclusive game so that says a lot about the system.


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## KingpinSlim (May 2, 2016)

@KSP: I get what you are saying and you are not wrong there, but Nintendo isn't like Sony or Microsoft at all. People nowadays think that Nintendo has only been "Gimicky" in the recent past, but that is not the case. Nintendo has always been doing things that were strange and completely off-course when compared to other manufacturers, but these things haven't SEEMED Gimicky because they were instantly successfull and became the industry-norm. Savegames, Shoulder buttons, the Dpad, the use of ergonomic controller designs, 3D glasses (pre-3DS), 2+ player multiplayer, 4+ player multiplayer... and so forth.
The NES was an EXTREMELY gimicky console. It HAD to be. Before the NES was released no one cared about video games anymore (Video-Game Crash) and so they didn't actually sell the NES as a videogame-console, but as a toy that came with a robot and a console that didn't look like a console at all, but much more like a VCR.
Anyway... Nintendo seems Gimicky nowadays, not because thats a recent change, but because the gimicks they are trying to sell aren't as successful as the ones that earlier on became industry-standard.


@The Real Jdbye: Thats because you look at the consoles the way they are NOW. Of course nowadays the portfolio of the 3DS is far more enticing than the one you find on the Vita, because it has already won and the third-party developers went to the 3DS, but at launch the situation was completely reversed. Please remember how it USED to be. People were constantly talking about how their 3DS was just a paperweight and had absolutely no good games, because neither Nintendo nor third-party developers were coming out with games. Back then people had already declared the 3DS dead and the Vita the unchallenged Victor. But those were the words of Enthusiasts and the Gaming Press and just one year later they would all eat those words, because Nintendo lowered the price and suddenly people started buying the 3DS like crazy. Those weren't the enthusiasts, they already owned one. Those were the casuals and they made the 3DS the Juggernaut it is today.

We might call ourselves the "Core"-demographic, but we aren't actually at the core of the video-gaming industry. Casuals are. WE are the niche-consumers.
How else do you explain that EA-titles are constantly among the best-selling titles when we all know that EA is horrible and that the games are overpriced garbage?


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## nintendarium (May 2, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish
id jokes ...


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## nickwhit (May 2, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> PS:
> I'm glad to see people now use more civil words and try to make arguments and not stupid jokes ...



If you were truly glad.. Youd have not mentioned it and let it die. Like this whole thread should have.
Like someone else said.. This is purely flamebait. As is you obsessing over the words people choose to use.
You have nothing better to do but start problems here? Chilllllllll


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## Deleted User (May 2, 2016)

for me wii u is ok console.  I can play gamecube games, wii games, games on pretty decent emulators, and there are games like mario maker, mario kart 8, yoshi's woolly world, tropical freeze, etc... and it's ton of fun. I'm satisfied.


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## KSP (May 2, 2016)

KingpinSlim said:


> @KSP: I get what you are saying and you are not wrong there, but Nintendo isn't like Sony or Microsoft at all. People nowadays think that Nintendo has only been "Gimicky" in the recent past, but that is not the case. Nintendo has always been doing things that were strange and completely off-course when compared to other manufacturers, but these things haven't SEEMED Gimicky because they were instantly successfull and became the industry-norm. Savegames, Shoulder buttons, the Dpad, the use of ergonomic controller designs, 3D glasses (pre-3DS), 2+ player multiplayer, 4+ player multiplayer... and so forth.
> The NES was an EXTREMELY gimicky console. It HAD to be. Before the NES was released no one cared about video games anymore (Video-Game Crash) and so they didn't actually sell the NES as a videogame-console, but as a toy that came with a robot and a console that didn't look like a console at all, but much more like a VCR.
> Anyway... Nintendo seems Gimicky nowadays, not because thats a recent change, but because the gimicks they are trying to sell aren't as successful as the ones that earlier on became industry-standard.
> ?



Well the 3DS gimmick worked for me. I bought one for 3D alone.

What I think is Nintendo is forgetting that behind any gimmick requires a rock solid console that is on par with the competition.

Regardless of NES coming with a Robot or not, it was its rock solid hardware that made it a house hold name. SNES followed suit with another rock solid hardware.

This is why Nintendo continued to gain massive third party support, and its really the third party support that made Nintendo the king of the hill in its heyday. Square almost single handily won the console war for Nintendo during the SNES era. 

Nintendo forgot about that, and since continuing to value gimmicks over hardware, they've managed to dwindle their third party support down to zero.

Nintendo went downhill a long time ago, when they lost Square cause they insisted on not using disc based gaming, then when they finally did go to disc based systems, they already lost their biggest third party partner. And then they nailed themselves in the foot, when they decided to re-release the same console twice in the Wii which was essentially the same as a GameCube. This made it impossible for any third party devs to make their biggest games on the console.

Then Wii U being 1 generation behind the PS4 was just the nail in the coffin.

I hope Nintendo learned that no man is an island, Nintendo IP alone cannot sustain them.


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## funnystory (May 2, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Twitter​
> By the looks of it if things don't improve then there'll hardly be an audience for Nintendo home consoles due to being in a constant decline. It goes in the following order, NES > SNES > N64 > NGC > Wii U and I'm just not including Wii because that was a console that literally everyone bought although only to then either pawn it, store in their closet or have it as a dust collector.
> 
> This'll make things interesting if the NX will change anything at all.



What about the virtual boy wasnt that a flop aswell?


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## KingpinSlim (May 2, 2016)

KSP said:


> Well the 3DS gimmick worked for me. I bought one for 3D alone.
> 
> What I think is Nintendo is forgetting that behind any gimmick requires a rock solid console that is on par with the competition.
> 
> ...



But HOW did Nintendo achieve market domination? The NES was not, hardware-wise, the superior console of its generation. The Master System was. They only won that generation because of illegal, by todays standards, contracts and gimmicks.
The SNES wasn't the best system of its time either, because it was sold long after most other companies have already begun selling fifth generation consoles which were vastly superior in its capabilities, but the SNES had games that later-on added Chips inside the cartridge that multiplied the SNES's performance considerably.
The same thing goes for the game-boy. It was by FAR the most inferior handheld of its entire generation and for all intents and purposes it should have failed miserably. If you were to hold an original Game Boy and a Sega Game Gear or Atari Lynx in your hand today you couldn't possibly imagine how Nintendo could have won this generation at all.

Nintendo was never a hardcore-console maker, even though this may seem like the case today. It is understandable to see it that way today, but thats not how it was back then.


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## KSP (May 3, 2016)

KingpinSlim said:


> But HOW did Nintendo achieve market domination? The NES was not, hardware-wise, the superior console of its generation. The Master System was. They only won that generation because of illegal, by todays standards, contracts and gimmicks.
> The SNES wasn't the best system of its time either, because it was sold long after most other companies have already begun selling fifth generation consoles which were vastly superior in its capabilities, but the SNES had games that later-on added Chips inside the cartridge that multiplied the SNES's performance considerably.
> The same thing goes for the game-boy. It was by FAR the most inferior handheld of its entire generation and for all intents and purposes it should have failed miserably. If you were to hold an original Game Boy and a Sega Game Gear or Atari Lynx in your hand today you couldn't possibly imagine how Nintendo could have won this generation at all.
> 
> Nintendo was never a hardcore-console maker, even though this may seem like the case today. It is understandable to see it that way today, but thats not how it was back then.


Times have changed. Nintendo needs to adapt or die.

They can't just say the word "fun" and expect to win the war anymore. Gaming is mainstream now, and games like Call of Duty dominate the current market. So power is gonna be the key to winning the home console market. Even back then when Nintendo wasn't busting down the powerhouse consoles, they were on par with everyone else, at least NES and Master System games were mostly cross plats, and Genesis and SNES were all cross plats, and even GameCube was cross plat with PS2 and Xbox.  

Nintendo is no longer even capable of keeping up with hardware that can perform on a cross plat basis. It's like Nintendo is trying to win the console war with a SNES vs a Sega Saturn nowadays. They are so far behind the curve that the software aren't even in the same gen anymore.

They need to at the very least get back into the same league as their competition to even compete.

And Nintendo has it right with handheld console, the weaker the console the more likely you'll win. Its mainly due to the fact that handheld devs wanna spend as little money as humanly possible to develop games for, because the userbase is smaller and the games sell for cheaper. So Nintendo made the right move every gen, by making cheaper and weaker systems that allows devs to spend pennies on game development, which boosted the consoles third party support.

Gameboy games could be made for pennies, were as Game Gear and Lynx all required console level development costs to create games for. Nintendo 3DS beat Vita using the same method. It costs too much money to develop on Vita cause Vita is literally like a PS3, so dev costs are PS3 level, but 3DS games costs pennies to produce compared to Vita.  So the handheld market is an odd one, where the weaker the console, the more you are likely to win. Odd.


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## KingpinSlim (May 3, 2016)

KSP said:


> Times have changed. Nintendo needs to adapt or die.
> 
> They can't just say the word "fun" and expect to win the war anymore. Gaming is mainstream now, and games like Call of Duty dominate the current market. So power is gonna be the key to winning the home console market. Even back then when Nintendo wasn't busting down the powerhouse consoles, they were on par with everyone else, at least NES and Master System games were mostly cross plats, and Genesis and SNES were all cross plats, and even GameCube was cross plat with PS2 and Xbox.
> 
> ...



The same thing that happened to Konami will eventually happen to Nintendo, because they are both on the same course, so yes. I agree with you, but the movement down this slippery slope might be obvious, the reason behind it may not be.
The actual core-demographic of gamers are to blame here. The people who, as a whole, spend the most money on video-games.
The move from proper video-games to more casual experiences didn't happen over night. This has been happening since the early 2000s when Video-Gaming (once again) started becoming a mainstream phenomenon and a lot of companies began hitting a brick wall with sales numbers. Enthusiasts buy a lot of video-games, but there aren't a lot of enthusiasts around, so to expand their markets a lot of companies went mainstream. This happened with the Wii for Nintendo and Konami began releasing games that were easier to get into, easier to beat, more narrative-driven and had a lot shorter development time.
For Konami this went so far that they are burning all bridges behind them now and they are no longer interrested in producing high-quality hardcore video-games anymore at all. Because even though a big portion of the enthusiast market were extremely excited for "Silent Hills", the core casual crowd wasn't. It didn't matter at all that a lot of us would have purchased it, because even if we ALL did, that still wouldn't have been enough, because enthusiasts are no longer a mass-market. Their IPs have either gone dormant since then or a long time ago and their main creative talent is leaving the company. This is not happening because they are losing control, but because they are doing this on PURPOSE. They are leaving this part of the gaming market to focus entirely on casual games on casual plattforms like mobile phones, because THATS where the real money is. Konami was an extremely valuble developer for Nintendo and now its gone.
This isnt just happening for Konami either. Look at Rareware. Donkey Kong Country, Banjo-Kazooie etc. Rareware ws a Juggernaut in its time, but they sold to Microsoft and now produce gimmicky Kinnect titles.
Nintendo might be the worst offender here, but the entire industry is going down-hill BECAUSE it is going mainstream.
We are fast approaching the event horizon and at some point in time we might actually experience another industry-wide crash when the casuals begin forsaking the (now) mediocre companies they once changed so much.


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## KSP (May 3, 2016)

Alright all debates end with the mention of Event Horizon. LOL

Great chat. You seem to know your shit, and as do I, so I think we've both gained from this chat.

Now I'm gonna go play some Mad Max on PS4. 

I hope the best for Nintendo.


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## KingpinSlim (May 3, 2016)

KSP said:


> Alright all debates end with the mention of Event Horizon. LOL
> 
> Great chat. You seem to know your shit, and as do I, so I think we've both gained from this chat.
> 
> ...



have fun!

PS: "Event Horizon" as in "Point of no return", not as in the space-time phenomenon


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## Thomas83Lin (May 3, 2016)

Wow Nintendo has been on the decline since the NES not counting the Wii going by that graph. Hopefully they can get back on track with their consoles. Hate to see the NX do worse then the WiiU.


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## teegeeack (May 3, 2016)

to be fair, most of nintendo's competitors from its heyday aren't even in the console manufacturing business anymore. one way of looking at it is "decline." another way of looking at it is "survival." nintendo survived, while many other companies did not.


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## RedDragonEmperor (May 3, 2016)

Not related about the consoles but if Nintendo decides NOT TO BE SO DAMN PARANOID on localizing by CENSORING THE SHIT out of JP games that would be a good start to up that SHAMEFUL sales.


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## nickwhit (May 3, 2016)

RedDragonEmperor said:


> Not related about the consoles but if Nintendo decides NOT TO BE SO DAMN PARANOID on localizing by CENSORING THE SHIT out of JP games that would be a good start to up that SHAMEFUL sales.


This really wouldnt affect sales much at all.. especially for home consoles, which usually recieve less JRPG translations than handhelds do. JRPG fans buy the localizations, regardless of censorship. And if they dont, Nintendo is relying on their own IPs to bring in their money.. not third party games. Which is the problem, at the bottom line.


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## lexarvn (May 3, 2016)

That chart is a bit misleading. It is showing life time sales. If it was only first 4-years of sales for each, it isn't as dramatic. Still a downward trend, but not quite as bad.


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## SLiV3R (May 3, 2016)

dimmidice said:


> he said nintendo consoles though. and not handhelds.


@Veho changed the topic title. So it is rather correct now (besides that the Virtual Boy sold less. Virtual Boy is DEFINITIVELY NOT a handheld


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## nxwing (May 3, 2016)

Here, we see another thread being derailed again. We bes not disturb them or we might end up being fucked up by them.

In all seriousness though, I blame the marketing. I'm willing to be most people probably thought that the Wii U was just a tablet add-on to the original Wii due to the somewhat similar looks of the consoles themselves.


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## dimmidice (May 3, 2016)

SLiV3R said:


> @Veho changed the topic title. So it is rather correct now (besides that the Virtual Boy sold less. Virtual Boy is DEFINITIVELY NOT a handheld


eh

The *Virtual Boy*(Japanese: バーチャルボーイ Hepburn: _Bācharu Bōi_?) is a 32-bit table-top 3D video game console developed and manufactured by Nintendo. It was marketed as the first "portable" video game console capable of displaying "true 3D graphics" out of the box.

I wouldn't call it a console.


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## Saiyan Lusitano (May 3, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> sure i do you , thanks you are a nice troll


Once a upon a time the term "troll", "sexist" and "racist" had an actual meaning but nowadays people throw them out like candy. Don't be one of those, Darium.


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## p1ngpong (May 3, 2016)

Nice walls of text, let me just delete your child bickering for you.

The Wii U isn't that bad a console really, it's just that the original Wii was so fucking horrendous it put a lot of people off of Nintendo consoles for life. As OP said they are pretty much worthless dust collectors now that nobody cares about.


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## nickwhit (May 3, 2016)

p1ngpong said:


> Nice walls of text, let me just delete your child bickering for you.
> 
> The Wii U isn't that bad a console really, it's just that the original Wii was so fucking horrendous it put a lot of people off of Nintendo consoles for life. As OP said they are pretty much worthless dust collectors now that nobody cares about.



My walls were better..... tootally jk.

I have to disagree though, with the horrendous bit. To me the OG Wii > Wii U simply because of the game library. Sure, a lot of it was shovelware or featuring gimmicky nonsense to utilize the controller in a new way... but there was also A LOT of gold in its lineup. Definitely more so than the Wii U. Its sad to see the Wii U fail like it is.. but its also a bit disheartening people treat the OG Wii like it has the HIVs or something. It was the weakest of the 3.. but it had the most heart <3


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## nero99 (May 3, 2016)

With the leak of the 5.5.x exploit, those systems will probably start selling more now


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## nintendarium (May 3, 2016)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Why are you so angry? There is no need for it. This was meant to be a sensible and reasonable conversations without getting worked up.


it is a joke...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



nero99 said:


> With the leak of the 5.5.x exploit, those systems will probably start selling more now


NO.
gen is gone...
edit:
also Nintendo is stopping production, accessories are already stopped, forecast for wiiu are at max 800k.
NX is approaching, wiiu gen is gone.
edit2:
Also Nintendo doesn't want to make a price reduction for wiiu.
edit 3:
also 5.5 kex is nothing, iosu is the thing, and should have been released last year to make the thing arrive to casual gamers, nerds like on this forum are not moving enough consoles.


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## Lemmy Koopa (May 3, 2016)

The concept of having moldable buttons on a controller based on the game's program is cool, but everyone knows, using the touch screen as a gaming controller is FUCKING garbage.

There's a reason why I just bought a gamepad for my android.


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## laudern (May 3, 2016)

GalladeGuy said:


> Here's a list of consoles that probably sold a lot less than the Wii U: Nintendo Virtual Boy, Atari 7800, Sega Nomad, Sega Saturn... And the list goes on.



Lol great way to support the OP's stance. None of those examples (except Nintendo, for now) are in the console race.


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## guisadop (May 4, 2016)

I personally do not like the Wii U because it has no third party support/multiplats. Nintendo games are declining in quality IMO, so I wouldn't buy it exclusively for the first party titles. Hell, even the Wii got better/more multiplats with games like Call of Duty, Godfather, Bully etc. I like to play all my games on a single console, and I don't like PC gaming (my PC is only for work and research).

Also, everything Nintendo related is 2x as expensive as Sony or Microsoft here in Brazil, so there's that.


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## nintendarium (May 4, 2016)

guisadop said:


> I personally do not like the Wii U because it has no third party support/multiplats. Nintendo games are declining in quality IMO, so I wouldn't buy it exclusively for the first party titles. Hell, even the Wii got better/more multiplats with games like Call of Duty, Godfather, Bully etc.
> 
> Also, everything Nintendo is 2x as expensive as Sony or Microsoft here in Brazil, so there's that.



brasilian government taxes are crazy, we cannot blame nintendo for that, i read some time ago that Sony here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidth...ice-in-brazil-is-bad-for-gamers/#754f7e796499

videogaming in brazil is more or less liek videogaming in northern european countries, very costly.

on the other side Nintendo ins brasil was always second behind Sega.
I remember crazy unoffical games for sega like the brazilian version of ISS on megadrive.
http://segaretro.org/Mega_Drive_consoles_in_Brazil


if you do not find Nintendo games on quality then you should avoid even in the future the console since they are switching to a more agile developing mostly oriented to mobile quality, always at their manner but still more a mobile approach (in a way more arcade) than what you find on Ps4.


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## guisadop (May 4, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> brasilian government taxes are crazy, we cannot blame nintendo for that, i read some time ago that Sony here:
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidth...ice-in-brazil-is-bad-for-gamers/#754f7e796499
> 
> ...



I agree, it really isn't favorable to be a gamer here in Brazil, and I mostly don't blame Nintendo for that because Brazilian market isn't really fond of Nintendo I guess, but they're the only one of the "Big Three" not to have official releases in Brazil. And our taxes make everything worse, too.


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## petethepug (May 4, 2016)

Not to be rude. But this is true, it's the worst video game console in the 2012 - 2016 era of games. Granite the games look good graphicly but it's very pricy, and it made me just wanted to avoid the console when I found out the only true "new aditions" were just first party games. (Sorry Nintendo Fans)

The fact they never improved graphics for third party games just shows how bad Nintendo wants to keep the console "exclusive" to Nintendo. It just shows they are not curtious to the other companies they are agasint (PS3 & Xbox in this case.) But reguardless they are working on the originality on the Wii U due to it not working out so well.

What confuses me even more is if Nintendo NX will even be worth upgrading, or if they will be moving their services on the Wii U to the NX. (Like they did with online Wii services to the Wii U.)


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## nintendarium (May 4, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## nintendarium (May 4, 2016)

gbatemp lost member because community is childish


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## petethepug (May 5, 2016)

nintendarium said:


> yes and no.
> You mean in that time period?
> 
> if we are speaking of "console" meaning the exact term then:
> ...



I'm just going to clear this up. I know my post was a little misleading.

The topic is only being related to the Wii U. I brung up the NX seeing, or noteing if it was even worth upgrading, and if they will move their services to the Wii U --> NX.

I mentioned 2012 - 2016 due to it losing value, and to try and be on topic. There are some ways Nintendo can show their laziness sometimes, and granite a lot of video game companies are like that at times. That's mostly my opinion considering the Wii U is $50 USD (American Currency) for the controller, and $200 - $600 USD for the console.

They do a good job with making the games, and I do like them, but money in count and making new things "development" wise with the content they have is not as great. They pretty much reimprove a games graphics make it a little more pricy and say it's new when it's really not new. Same thing with only Nintendo only allowing mostly 1st Party Games to work, instead of 3rd. Which is where I see a lot of Nintendos laziness at hand. And "new ideas" for games.

Again I am a Nintendo Fan (I use a modified Wii) I just do not like the new and constant updates for games, and consoles they have. Saying "Hey! You have to buy this if you want to still enjoy Nintendo!" If you get what I mean. But it is debatiable.


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