# Sony: Dead in the water



## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

Well let me start off by saying that you guys know me, you know I'm usually fair and unbiased when it comes to things, and as such, I ask you not to shrug this topic off as an anti-Sony rant, as it's not. It's merely a compilation of the facts. Now be warned, the topic will be fairly long (due to the articles that have to be read), but it all has a purpose. Oh, and I'll summarize after each article. Also, I don't want a bunch of random comments from people who haven't read the facts presented in these articles. Read them, don't just jump into the discussion without having your facts straight.

*ARTICLE 1:* http://www.electricsistahood.com/reviews/2...y-go-broke.html
*SUMMARY 1:* If the PS3 fails, Sony loses _billions_. And if the PS3 sells... Sony still loses _billions_. Also if they drop the price to get more people to buy, they lose even more money. Their television sales are trailing far behind the competition (Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic, etc), their CD and/or MP3 player sales are failing due to the iPod (and buy/download by-the-song music), and their movie sales are hanging by the Spider-Man franchises webline. Which, by the way, will probably be ending after Spidey 3, which will in turn put an end to that particular cash cow.

*ARTICLE 2:* http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage3
*SUMMARY 2:* Sony's stock shares have already dropped 2.75% already from negative news about the PS3, and it hasn't even been released yet. And the fact that Sony won't see profit from the PS3 for over 5 years will cause the stocks to drop even farther.

*ARTICLE 3:* http://pspupdates.qj.net/Developers-say-th...pg/49/aid/67974
*SUMMARY 3:* Developers believe that the PSP has either already failed, or is in the process of failing. And when the developers think the product is dead, they stop developing for it. Which will in turn be the killing blow.

*ARTICLE 4:* http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=20115
*SUMMARY 4:* Even Sony's own executives don't believe that Blu-Ray will last, with many of them giving sending mixed messages regarding Blu-ray's future. Bottom line: if Blu-ray fails, Sony dies.

*ARTICLE 5:* http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154029
*SUMMARY 5:* Many developers (in this case, Square-Enix) don't have faith in the PS3, and are going cross-platform. Kingdom Hearts may be coming to Wii instead of the PS3, Grand Theft Auto is now cross-platform (360 and PS3), Solid Snake is appearing in Super Smash Bros: Brawl, and there are countless more examples. Example: Originally Assassin's Creed was PS3 exclusive, now it's cross-platform. Basically, PS3 is losing brands and exclusives left and right.

*ARTICLE 6:* http://psp3d.xhardwarereviews.com/index2.p...s%20Predictions
*SUMMARY 6:* Analysts suggest that the PSP sales this winter will be "abysmal", no doubt signaling the end of an already dying handheld, as mentioned above.


*ADDITIONAL FACTS:*

*** The price is way too much for the average consumer to spend on a video game console. The average non-hardcore gamer working 9-5 won't be able to afford it, and the average parent certainly won't be it for their child. Atleast not for a few years down the road. Alot of average consumers will put off buying the PS3 for years until the price drops.

*** Sony pissed _alot_ of people off with one negative announcement after another regarding the PS3. They're making no allies and getting constant bad press. So far the only positive announcement has been that the Japanese core PS3 got a price drop, and even that was accompanied by the fact that Japanese PS3 games will now retail for close to $90 USD. Then there's the delays, and various other factors.

*** They plan for the PS3 to have a 10 year lifespan, but Xbox and Wii will most likely have the usual 5 - 6 year lifespan. Meaning by the time Sony even starts making any money on the PS3 (_if_ they do), Nintendo and Microsoft will both have new consoles out that will be more powerful than the PS3, and cheaper to produce due to components costing less by then.

*** What many people don't know is that game hardware spec comparisons have been done, and the Xbox 360 is actually equal to the PS3 in most way, and even surpasses it in others. This means the consumer can get (basically) the same level of power for a smaller cost. Now the Xbox 360 is even offering something that was a large draw to the PS3: 1080p.

*** Blu-ray is slower loading/reading than HD-DVD, has a less recognizable brand name (HD-DVD is an obvious combination of High Definition and DVD), it will scratch like crazy due to the data being closer to the surface (and a lesser protective coating), manufacturers don't believe Blu-Ray recorders can succeed in North America, and now that the 360 has an optional HD-DVD drive, it basically has the same advantage as PS3's blu-ray player (except in this case you can choose to shell out money for it rather than having the price of the console jacked up).

*** Sony apparently hasn't delivered the online specs to developers, meaning they won't be able to implement online play any time soon. This one's not confirmed, but if it's true it means they're not taking online play seriously, and they need to because Xbox live has a rather large head start.

*** The Xbox 360 already has a large head start, and rumor has it they'll be lowering their prices and improving internal hardware (nothing major, just some new chips and fixes, etc) in 2007. Which will make competition even more fierce. Not to mention additional non-direct (as stated by Nintendo) competition from the Wii as well.

*** A long time ago it was announced that the PS3 budget version will not be backwards compatible (I believe it was e3), if this still stands it will be a huge drawback for the consumer. I have no idea if that still stands, but feel free to correct me if that has since changed.

*** HD-DVD at the moment has stronger sales than Sony's Blu-ray format, and it too had a head start. Not to mention Blu-ray's one advantage (the fact that it could hold more data) is useless at this point, as apparently Sony can get the larger capacity disks to work on existing Blu-ray players.

*** Sony's PSP UMD movie format was an utter failure. It didn't sell, and if I remember correctly because of that... they stopped produbing movies in this format. This may have been changed if Sony had released UMD recorders, but they were so set on keeping pirates away from their format that they refused to let that happen.

*** Various game stores are speculating (based on recent polls) that the PS3 will sell terribly in Japan this winter, going as far  as giving it an equal market share figure to that of the Xbox 360. Which is ironic, as based on earlier polls before all of Sony's bad press, the PS3 was by far the most anticipated next-gen console. Now? Not so much.


Well, that's all I can think of off the top of my head, but everything there spells out what we're all thinking: Sony is dead in the water, and they don't even know it. I mean what does it say about a company if they're going to lose billions even if they do succeed, and even more if they try and lower the price for the consumer? It says "dead meat". By the by, the first article is the msot important one. Above all else, read it.


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## adgloride (Oct 4, 2006)

I'll just comment on some of the points.  

The HDTV LCD screens that sony have for their TVs they get them from samsung.  If you buy a sony lcd HDTV all your paying far is the name, the samsung version is a lot cheaper and you get the same screen.  Sony should have really stuck with DVD for the PS3 and it probably could have been out and a lot cheaper.  Yet they insist on making it more expensive and going with blu-ray.  Which no one seems to want.

I can still see the PS3 selling like hot cakes when they are eventually released in the UK.  The way I see it is I'll have to save up for about 6 months to get one.  Instead of getting a ps3 I could be very close to buying a new PC.  All I'd need is a little more money to add.


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## legendofphil (Oct 4, 2006)

Sony have only shipped online kits to some developers and not just certain publishers, because Sega have an online game and another that has dropped it for the PS3 only.

The 20GB version *should* be backwards compatible because the device that deals with the older memory cards is USB based.

Sony have also got alot invested in the Cell processor that powers the PS3, they could loose alot if it doesn't take off in computers/servers either.

Then of course are Sony batteries, $500 million it has cost them so far with 10 million batteries across many branded laptops being recalled to date.


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## yatzr (Oct 4, 2006)

by the ten year lifespan, they meant that games will be made for it for ten years.  They said the ps1 had a ten year life span because games were still put out for it even after the ps2 came out.  Also, games will still come out on ps2 giving it the "ten year lifespan" as well.

you can't say the x360 gives the same level of power for less cost because it doesn't already come with the HD-DVD.  Throw that in and now they're about equal cost, which makes sense.


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## Mehdi (Oct 4, 2006)

Sony will never die, they will never die.


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## Costello (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> and even that was accompanied by the fact that Japanese PS3 games will now retail for close to $90 USD.


I recall reading recent news about games being around 5,000 Yen (between $50 and $60 USD) in Japan.

I'm pretty sure games aren't $90 anyway


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(yatzr @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> by the ten year lifespan, they meant that games will be made for it for ten years.Â They said the ps1 had a ten year life span because games were still put out for it even after the ps2 came out.Â Also, games will still come out on ps2 giving it the "ten year lifespan" as well.
> 
> you can't say the x360 gives the same level of power for less cost because it doesn't already come with the HD-DVD.Â Throw that in and now they're about equal cost, which makes sense.



Well, I actually meant graphical power. I wasn't comparing disk capacity, as Blu-ray is obviously superior to standard DVD in that area. But graphically they're about equal, and sources have also stated that the Xbox 360 allows for superior AI. Also, yatzr, say ony doesn't go with the 10 year lifespan plan. Say they change their mind and go with the usual 6 (before releasing a new console, that is). That equals them being broke, simple as that. They will *not*be seeing any money from PS3 sales for atleast 5 years. If they released a PS4 (tentative) to compete with whatever the competiton puts out, they would be breaking themselves financially, even more-so than they already are.

EDIT: Costello, games are $50 - $60 USD in North America, in Japan they're around $85 (which I'm assuming doesn't cover tax, raising the price). The reason for the price shift is simple, since they're making less money on the reduced hardware price, they compensate by raising the software prices.


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## legendofphil (Oct 4, 2006)

JPN games will sell between 5,040 yen (~$43) and 8,190 yen (~$70) at launch.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> PS3 launch game prices range from the unexpectedly low to the slightly higher than expected. At the low end are two mahjong games. Konami will release Mahjong Fight Club National Competition Edition at 5,229 yen. This is slightly higher than Koei's Mahjong Taikai IV, which will sell for 5040 yen. The Koei title is, incidentally, a new entry to the PS3's Japanese launch lineup.
> Sega's launch title, Sega Golf Club, has been priced at 7,140 yen, as previously reported. So has Sonic the Hedgehog, which hits Japan on 12/21 at 7,140 yen.
> 
> Finally, we come to the high end of the launch lineup. Ridge Racer 7 and Gundam Target in Sight will both carry price points of 7,329 yen. This is actually the price that Konami charges for most of its PS2 games.
> ...



From IGN


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

I'd just like to point out once more (just incase), that the first article is the most important one. It's the defining factor.

http://www.electricsistahood.com/reviews/2...y-go-broke.html


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## Bowser128 (Oct 4, 2006)

There are a few (read: many) holes in the first article's argument. Obviously Sony are going to lose money on the console itself, only Nintendo has dodged that bullet. But as always, the consoles aren't where the money is for any of the three companies, it's the games, and Sony have the money to make sure they get big developers on board for plenty of lucrative exclusive franchises and therefore make themselves money. Lots of money.


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## ds6220 (Oct 4, 2006)

I have got to say congratulations to Ace. No wonder you have a 60 billion double dollar price on your head. You have the put together a great post with appropriate references to help back up your argument. Very well thought out and concise. I happen to agree with the assessment that Sony is in big trouble and I just wanted to give you a thumbs up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I, for one, am tired of the attitude of "it is not next gen unless we say so".


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## forkyfork (Oct 4, 2006)

What are the latest details about the XBOX HD DVD player. When will it be released (or has it already?).. Is $200 the final price?


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(Bowser128 @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> There are a few (read: many) holes in the first article's argument. Obviously Sony are going to lose money on the console itself, only Nintendo has dodged that bullet. But as always, the consoles aren't where the money is for any of the three companies, it's the games, and Sony have the money to make sure they get big developers on board for plenty of lucrative exclusive franchises and therefore make themselves money. Lots of money.



While that may be true, that won't stop the billions in losses. And billions is alot of money, no matter who you are. However, there's also another factor: as you said, they make money on software. But as stated above most companies are going cross-platform. Sony's heaviest hitter (Square-Enix) is moving, and considering moving some of its largest franchises to the other two next-gen consoles. Now that's just one example of course. But that brings me to my next point, if you could buy Final Fantasy XII (this is a hypothetical) on Xbox 360, which costs significantly less, and is equally powerful, wouldn't you be more likely to do that rather than than spend a bundle on a PS3? I know that's what I'd do. 

Which brings up Assassin's Cross again: back when it was PS3 exclusive I was thinking "That's a nice looking game, it's a shame it's only on PS3, but maybe when/if I get a PS3 some day I'll get it". Then it was announced for Xbox 360, and all of the sudden, the one reason I had to buy a PS3 was now gone (for now, there may be other exclusives I'm interested in in the future). And I can guarantee you alot of people are thinking the same thing. "If my favorite brand, the one reason I had for buying a PS3 is on Xbox 360 as well... why shell out the extra money?"

EDIT: forkyfork, the HD-DVD drive will retail for close to $200, and is scheduled for release in Japan on November 17th 2006. And I believe seeing something about it hitting North American retailers in December, but don't quote me on that. But here's the way I see it, is the HD-DVD drive expensive? Yes. But the difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360, is that if I don't want an HD-DVD drive, I don't _have_ to buy it and pay a bundle extra. And at this point it'll be atleast a year until I buy a next-gen DVD format player, so that works out great.


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## Bowser128 (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Bowser128 @ Oct 4 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > There are a few (read: many) holes in the first article's argument. Obviously Sony are going to lose money on the console itself, only Nintendo has dodged that bullet. But as always, the consoles aren't where the money is for any of the three companies, it's the games, and Sony have the money to make sure they get big developers on board for plenty of lucrative exclusive franchises and therefore make themselves money. Lots of money.
> ...



Yes, Square-Enix jumping ship and Assassin's Creed losing its exclusivity are big blows for Sony, but like you say, Sony are putting *everything* they have into this, so there's no doubt the huge investment they're willing to make will procure their system many a most-wanted exclusive.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

Well, from what I've seen most developers are backing away from exclusives. It's not good business in the next-gen era. Very few developers have faith in the PS3 (due to Sony and their bad choices), and the same can be said for any developer trying to market a game in Japan Xbox 360-wise. So logicially most of them are heading onto the cross-platform bandwagon, as it will be the most likely to be profitable.


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## Sick Wario (Oct 4, 2006)

scary article there.... but the observant have noticed Sony slipping for a while
sooooo many media outrages from DRM, the failure of UMD, lower hardware sales, low PSP sales, a sinking movie division and the slow adoption of blu ray. Add on the multiple push backs for PS3 release, such a high price initially, and sony looks to be doomed in my eyes. 
what really pisses me off is the attitude of the company itself. that "work more hours...buy PS3" comment cracks me up...
I think Sony had become too comfortable with ps/ps2 dominating market share. 

and WTF were they thinking not changing the dual shock, even while losing  the vibration!? I almost would've rather seen them release the bommerang


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## Hitto (Oct 4, 2006)

Nah, sony won't die. I doubt they will have first place again this gen, but they still have mindshare. Most people I know will buy sony MP3 players because the store clerk told'em so. Don't think that us internet nerds are the majority of the population, who have never heard of rootkits.

And again, people KEEP FORGETTING no matter how expensive it will be, it WILL sell out at launch, and even for the poorest of the poor, the price will *not* be an issue.

I wonder where that fucking myth comes from, but next time you visit the projects in your city, ask yourself why family mothers struggling on welfare and / or cleaning jobs still put money aside to buy 200$ brand name sports shoes for their kids. The price is an issue only with the middle class. We're more jaded, and expect a LOT MORE for six hundred bucks than john doe "mario is for kiddies" does.

On the "they're losing billions no matter what" side, you also forget that a huge company (isn't sony a keiretsu?), even if they had a deficit comparable to what the US spends every day to wage war in Iraq, they would be protected by the state. Nobody wants a hike in unemployment rates. So, to keep the illusion of being a big fish, sony can lose all the money they want, it doesn't matter. What they want is to recreate what Microsoft did to the PC world. You have to keep growing and growing, and the best part is, stocks and shares do not give a fuck about profits or losses 75% of the time. They care about market domination, and chest-beating CEOs. Do you seriously think sony is run by idiots? The arrogance is what makes them relevant today. Would *you* say, after more than ten years of utter market domination, say "we don't believe in our product" ? Of course not!

Look, I hate sony as much as the next guy, but they're not going anywhere. They might suffer a lot, but eventually, they'll go back to being the company that invented the fucking walkman instead of pushing rootkit, bluray discs and racist ads. And it will be good for the consumers.


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## Bowser128 (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> Well, from what I've seen most developers are backing away from exclusives. It's not good business in the next-gen era. Very few developers have faith in the PS3 (due to Sony and their bad choices), and the same can be said for any developer trying to market a game in Japan Xbox 360-wise. So logicially most of them are heading onto the cross-platform bandwagon, as it will be the most likely to be profitable.



I guess we'll only properly know who's right in a few years time (I hope you are, me =/= a Sony fan). Until then we can only speculate.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> Nah, sony won't die. I doubt they will have first place again this gen, but they still have mindshare. Most people I know will buy sony MP3 players because the store clerk told'em so. Don't think that us internet nerds are the majority of the population, who have never heard of rootkits.
> 
> And again, people KEEP FORGETTING no matter how expensive it will be, it WILL sell out at launch, and even for the poorest of the poor, the price will *not* be an issue.
> 
> ...



When they're losing money in every one of their industries, that's a bad sign. Even if the company as whole manages to survive, I have no doubt their video game division will perish. The true irony of the situation is that if they do die out in the video game market (once again sales = losses. No sales = losses, so selling out is just as bad as not selling at all)... anyways, the irony of the situation is that if they do die out video game console-wise, they stand to make more money that way. Because really, if your Sony's competition and they're selling off their brand, and you want the power of of said brand, you're going to pay millions apon millions to get it from them.


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## yatzr (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> (once again sales = losses. No sales = losses, so selling out is just as bad as not selling at all)


you're forgetting, no sales = no sales of software = losses.  selling out = selling games = losses (if any) will be far less than no sales of hardware.

so no, selling out is not as bad as not selling at all.


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## teh_raf3 (Oct 4, 2006)

Whatever the case will be, Playstation 3 will sell very well and in long terms might be profitable for Sony.


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## skywarp (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(teh_raf3 @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> Whatever the case will be, Playstation 3 will sell very well and in long terms might be profitable for Sony.



I don't think so. I don't think any amount of software sales will ever pull the Playstation 3 itself to into profitable margins, the real profit would come from securing blu-ray as a mainstream media format.


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## lagman (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(skywarp @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> QUOTE(teh_raf3 @ Oct 4 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever the case will be, Playstation 3 will sell very well and in long terms might be profitable for Sony.
> ...



And when the cheapest player cost $600 , that´s hard


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## teh_raf3 (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm not only talking about the software sales, the hardware parts will become cheaper to produce so they might make profit from that. Nontheless, Playstation 3 isn't Sony's only product they sell, so they should still be fine.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 4, 2006)

QUOTE(skywarp @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> QUOTE(teh_raf3 @ Oct 4 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever the case will be, Playstation 3 will sell very well and in long terms might be profitable for Sony.
> ...



And that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Although obviously we're going to see Blu-ray sales pick up with the release of the PS3, but the question is, will it be enough? Owning a PS3 doesn't mean you're automatically going to buy Blu-Ray. I could buy a next-gen format player any time I want to, I just have no interest at the moment, I'm pretty much waiting the format war out. And the same goes for alot of people.

But people need to start wrapping their heads around this, the facts are their in black and white. Sony is losing money on every front except movies, and that's only because of Spider-Man. The fact is though, Spider-Man 3 isn't coming out  for 7 months, and then after that, the money train is gone (which is likely since the cast said they probably won't return even if they were asked to do more sequels). Blind faith doesn't equal facts, and the writing is on the wall. 

Sony will never be the company that invented the Walkman again, that was over 25 years ago. They've since become so swolen and fat with greed and power that they've lost every shed of their humility "You can't afford a PS3? Work overtime you poor lazy bastards!", it's a sad day when that's a companies mindset on this kind of thing. Recently the president of Sony's computer entertainment division (Ken Kutaragi) was asked what Sony thought of the PS3's competition, his reply? "We don't care". Can you believe that? That's a sign of weakness. History has taught us that anyone or any company that thinks they're untouchable... are infact the weakest of us all. When you get sloppy and stop caring, that's when the competition takes you down.


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## Extreme Coder (Oct 4, 2006)

Very interesting read Ace Gunman 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I know we all wish Sony perishes forever(who doesn't) but, let's be realistic, even if the PS3 doesn't sell well and it doesn't come out first this generation, this might make Sony actually think of how they should market their stuff.
But what I really wish for is that Sony leaves the video game market alone. I'd be much happier with only Nintendo and Microsoft in the video game market.


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## PURPLEMUSTANG (Oct 4, 2006)

Before anyone flames me I willl  state that I WILL be buying the WII and will actually import 2000 units to this country.Now regarding SONY:

1-The playstation name has established itself kind of like mercedes-benz has.They may be expensive but they still outsell BMW by far.so will ps3 maybe sales won't be hot at first but evryone will dive into one as soon as the price drops.

2-As for the electronic  industry(tv's,home stereo ,dvd players..etc) yes LG/SAMSAUNG/PHILIPS/PANASONIC are doing it cheaper.But  I know for a fact is that when I buy a SONY that it will last indefinitely.(Again this is for the electronic industry as my ps2 has internals worse than my FORD V8 neverthe less I love both

3-I think the ps name has made SONY more popular than ever so I don't think they will just let it die away.BTW sony software itslef has come a long way:God of war,Shadow of collosus.

So in contrast here is what I think :it will be like super nintendo vs sega genesis/megadrive all over again but this time it's nintendo vs sony.which means only one thing :better games and entertainment  for everyone.


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## Golds (Oct 4, 2006)

best post of the year lead poster!

now that the cheaper ps3 has HDMI out, I will spend 499 (which will probably go down a little) to play final fantasy.

Cause what does the more expensive one have? blu-ray (pbthh), a card reader for pictures (I have a pc in the next room), wireless g (the cheaper one has a wired slot, 100ft of cable!)

I think we are worrying way too much about sony.


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## delta123 (Oct 4, 2006)

and even if sony did bust you have to think that they will just merge with another company. that's what they are all doing these days.


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## Chrono1102 (Oct 5, 2006)

This is gonna suck in more ways than one for me.

I never pledged to be a Sony fan, but I personally do not like where Nintendo is going with the Wii (I can't aim worth shit.) This leaves me to believe that if the PS3 does as poorly as everyone believes it to be, I might have to switch to Microsoft. Problem is, my bro is a Microsoft fan, meaning it's going to be difficult to get any games for the 360, seeing is i don't have his income.

So does this mean that I'm gonna stop playing newer generation console games for good?

Screw it, I'm gonna play on my Dreamcast...


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## al-ds (Oct 5, 2006)

Nice articles and some nice comments guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

Thinking back i wouldnt give a %^# paying $1000AU for a ps3.. for these two reasons:

1. I payed over $1000AU when the 3DO first came out.
2. I payed over $1000AU when the PS1 first came out.

I dont see what the big deal is with the price, sure it sounds expensive (but has the option of a cheaper model) but you look back in the industry and that high price is nothing new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

Also every company goes down and up percentage wise with major announcements in there industry, its all part of share trading and part of the game.


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## skywarp (Oct 5, 2006)

It doesn't have to happen anytime soon, but if blu-ray EVER becomes the next "DVD", Sony will really be in the money, They will make a royalty on every retail disc ever sold, which is pretty crazy. I don't necessarily think it's a brillant business strategy, since they will be losing god awful amounts of money for years on the PS3, when they are already indept(I think..). And if some other next-gen format beats out blu-ray, Sony as we know it will probably die.(IE, enormous amounts of downsizing).

I think Sony was pushed into this situation thou by Toshiba and HD-DVD, otherwise it would be alot more intelligent IMO to wait untill next gen console to really push blu-ray, because most people aren't really interested, and HD-TV's still aren't popular enough yet. But they have to rush the technology to the public to compete for mindshare, since that's all that really matters.


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## elfgirl_45 (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm just bummed there's no pre-order (yet?), I was planning on getting one and turning it around for some quick cash. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like Sony and Nintendo more than Microsoft, so I really hope both systems do well and have plenty of good games to keep me busy. Otherwise I'm just going to keep playing my PS2 and DS. I think the PS3 will do fine in the longrun though especially when prices drop, it's what people already know and are used to, more of the same basically. The Wii has me more skeptical... new and innovative... hopefully it's fun!


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## Opium (Oct 5, 2006)

I don't think Sony is going anywhere.

- If Blu-Ray succeeds they will make a hell of a lot of money from licensing.

- Even thought Sony losses money on each ps3 they sell they make it all back in software sales.

- PS2 had over a 50% market share last gen. PS3 has that enormous market share to pitch to. I know heaps of people who have no real interest in video games but they all know what a playstation is, they don't know what a gamecube is though.

- I know people who bought a PS2 just because it had a dvd player in it. Many will buy a ps3 just because it has a Blu-Ray player in it.

- Only hardcore gamers actually read up about all this type of crap anyway. Most people will walk into the store and see a new playstation, "omgz it's the new thing! So powerful, very pretty" and buy one. PS3 will constantly be in high demand. Xbox360 has had it's time to capture people's attention before the 'new sony' came out. I don't think people are going to care about the xbox360 when the ps3 is out. I know someone who bought an xbox360 then afterwards heard about the ps3 and now wants one of them instead because it's more powerful.

Not that I want or could ever afford a PS3, but I think it's very premature to cast sony off already.


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## shadow1w2 (Oct 5, 2006)

Id like to see Sony go third party again.
They made some decent SNES and Sega Genesis titles.
Though it was mostly crappy Sony pictures movie based games, but they did make some good origonals like Equinox and Soul Blazer (snes)

Though Id wonder, who would take Sony's place if they droped out?
Think an old company might jump in? Or an Ipod gaming machine would appear.
Or of all things, Nokia lol xD

I think sony wont have too much trouble staying alive, they have squezzed by so well for so long now.
Though they are making alot of bad choices lately. I wonder what they are thinking.
Maybe the domination over the market is getting too their head too much?
They certainly sound like it.

Though as much as I dislike Sony and their methods of gaining exclusives by evil contracts, they are good compitition for companies I like. So sony should try to figure out what their doing before its too late.
A good rival is a good rival.


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## lastdual (Oct 5, 2006)

Sony isn't going to dissapear.

Kind of like the US government with domestic auto makers, the Japanese government helps prop up their mega corporations as well. Even if the PS3 fails, the chances of Sony dying out are very slim.

However, expect to see some corporate heads roll if the PS3 doesn't sell well and/or blu-ray goes the way of betamax...


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## .TakaM (Oct 5, 2006)

i want nothing more than sony to fail.
never liked sony, never will and every stumble theyve made Ive been smiling.

still I cant see them failing, theyre fanbase alone will probably hold them up


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## Westside (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Opium @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> - Only hardcore gamers actually read up about all this type of crap anyway. Most people will walk into the store and see a new playstation, "omgz it's the new thing! So powerful, very pretty" and buy one. PS3 will constantly be in high demand. Xbox360 has had it's time to capture people's attention before the 'new sony' came out. I don't think people are going to care about the xbox360 when the ps3 is out. I know someone who bought an xbox360








 , that is so true.  My uncle dont know what it is, but he will buy a PS3 just because it looks like an expensive grill.

About $ON¥ mp3 players though, they are actually very good, and with the new NW-e000 series, it may help them out alot.  I don't know why but as long as you use some other software than sonic stage, the players are pretty and they also sound beautiful.


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## Ragone (Oct 5, 2006)

That's what you for being stubborn and using stupid formats that nobody else will (UMD/BluRay)

Wii all the way.


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## JohnDrake (Oct 5, 2006)

Sony has given everyone outside of the USA and Japan the finger!  We're getting the console last and we're paying a lot more for it.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Opium @ Oct 4 2006 said:


> I don't think Sony is going anywhere.
> 
> *1* - If Blu-Ray succeeds they will make a hell of a lot of money from licensing.
> 
> ...



Once again though, the facts are there:

*1)* Blu-ray is already showing signs of decline. Sony can't get the bigger disks working (which was the only draw that Blu-ray had over HD-DVD), and HD-DVD is selling alot better at this point.

*2)* Software sales are key, yes. But if you can get the same software on a less expensive console, that's what the average consumer will do. Most companies _are_ going 3rd party for simple business reasons. If they spread the love, they make more money. And if one console fails, atleast they have the others to live off.

*3)* Guys, lets face facts, Sony only won last gen for one reason: They had a head start and backwards compatibility. In hardware terms they were inferior, and had they not had the software titles to back them up, and the head start, they would have already lost. Which brings me back to reply 2) which shows that solid software backing for the PS3 may not be in the cards this generation. 

Then there's the fact that this gen Xbox 360 is the one with the head start, already having a large game library while the PS3 on the whole has only even _announced_ a handful of titles. And of course there's other factors as well, such as: Nintendo and Microsoft are both branching out, bringing more game series/genres into the fold. Microsoft finally has some good looking RPGs from prominent creators coming out, which was the only reason the system is really failing in Japan (that being a previous lack of Japanese oriented software titles). And Nintendo's stocks have reached a six year high, while Sony's stocks are already going down.

*4)* That's a good point. But it should be noted that rumor has it that Microsoft will either be releasing an Xbox 360 with an _internal_ HD-DVD drive, or a new bundle where they sell the external HD-DVD drive with the Xbox 360 for roughly the same price as the PS3. Which brings the war of the formats into the video game front. And as stated above, HD-DVD (at the moment) seems to be winning that war.

*5)* Neither hardcore gamers, nor the casual consumer need to know these facts. Really the fact that Sony's losing a ton of money on every console they sell doesn't need to be known, as it's an inevitability. The fact of the matter is that people _will_ buy the PS3, it will probably even be a hit product. But developers arn't pleased (and when devs arn't pleased, they don't develope *cough*GameCube**cough*PSP*cough*), and financially it's killing Sony. 

So sure, go out and buy a PS3, I probably would too if they ever announce a game I want badly enough (KH3 probably being on the Wii means my only true reason has gone out the window). But in this case, they won't make money for over half a decade, and by then they'll realise that that killed them. So no, Sony's death won't be immediate, they'll probably think everything is going according to plan until they get 5 years in, then they'll see how negatively their choices affected them.


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## Opium (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> *2)* Software sales are key, yes. But if you can get the same software on a less expensive console, that's what the average consumer will do. Most companies _are_ going 3rd party for simple business reasons. If they spread the love, they make more money. And if one console fails, atleast they have the others to live off.
> 
> *3)* Guys, lets face facts, Sony only won last gen for one reason: They had a head start and backwards compatibility. In hardware terms they were inferior, and had they not had the software titles to back them up, and the head start, they would have already lost. Which brings me back to reply 2) which shows that solid software backing for the PS3 may not be in the cards this generation.
> 
> ...



2. People will buy software for the console they own regardless of price, yes? And when the PS3 has most of the established game characters running on their system people will buy a PS3 for those games. From my friends I've basically gathered that the only real mascot for the Xbox is Halo, all the other games are available on either both systems or just the Playstation. That's kind of the impression at the moment. PS3 will sell through stock constantly, they wont have many troubles with sales.

3. Really the head start and backwards comptibility were the only reasons? I believe the games were the reason that ps2 won. The ps2 library is huge and the xbox never distinguished itself from the ps2 in terms of games because both systems played the exact same games anyway.

5. "*The fact of the matter is that people will buy the PS3, it will probably even be a hit product. But developers arn't pleased (and when devs arn't pleased, they don't develope *cough*GameCube**cough*PSP*cough*)*"

so what you're saying is:

PS3 = quite possibly a hit product = lots of PS3 console sales.

Developers don't need to be happy, they need to make money and they'll publish first and foremost on the console that has the biggest market share, because that means more money for them. Gamecube had an abysmal marketshare (especially in Australia, you can't even buy Gamecube games anymore in many stores). So if the PS3 sells really well then developers will hop on board.


It all boils down to this -

PS3 sells well = Sony, it's financial position and market dominance is once again happy happy

PS3 sells bad = Sony is in crap and more emphasis will be given to xbox360


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Opium @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> 2. People will buy software for the console they own regardless of price, yes? And when the PS3 has most of the established game characters running on their system people will buy a PS3 for those games. From my friends I've basically gathered that the only real mascot for the Xbox is Halo, all the other games are available on either both systems or just the Playstation. That's kind of the impression at the moment. PS3 will sell through stock constantly, they wont have many troubles with sales.
> 
> 3. Really the head start and backwards comptibility were the only reasons? I believe the games were the reason that ps2 won. The ps2 library is huge and the xbox never distinguished itself from the ps2 in terms of games because both systems played the exact same games anyway.
> 
> ...



2.) Opium, once again, the titles are no longer in exclusive territory. If Final Fantasy and Metal Gear moved to the other consoles as well (for example), Sony is screwed. And guess what? There are signs of that happening. Solid Snake is appearing on a Nintendo console in character form only (for now), but that will most likely lead to the Wii getting a Metal Gear title as well. As that's how these kind of things works. And Square-Enix doesn't care for Sony anymore. They've stated that they may move their franchises to different consoles. Basically, all bets are off. Any game could appear on both a Sony and Microsoft console. Look at GTA, once a Sony exclusive, now... not so much.

And for the record, Microsoft has been building up franchises to compete. Halo = their Metroid, Fable = their Zelda, Blue Dragon = their Dragon Quest, Lost Odyssey = their Final Fantasy, Dead or Alive = their fighting series, etc. The list goes on. Last gen they only had Halo and Fable, this gen they've got some heavy hitters behind them. The possibility that the Xbox 360 will have all or most of the software that the PS3 gets is there, which means no reason to pay $200 - $300 extra for a PS3.

3.) I listed software in my previous comment, but it was the head start and backwards compatibility that did it. Because the head start put them ahead of the competition, for quite some time the PS2 was the only option, as Xbox and GameCube hadn't even stepped out of the door yet. And this time Xbox 360 has that advantage. The backwards compatibility can't be taken at face value, it's not the words that are important, it was the fact that the PS2 had the ability to play the entire PS1 game library. Which, by the way, is something all the consoles have this gen, so Sony can no longer use it as an incentive.

5.) My argument was never that the PS3 wouldn't sell. It won't sell on some fronts, yes, because there are people like you and me who can't afford it and won't even consider buying one until the price goes down. But here's the thing, BILLIONS are lost no matter how they sell. And if they lower the price in a couple of years to sell more (for the sake of people like you and me), they lose even more money than that which pushes any possible ahrdware revenue back even farther.


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## Opium (Oct 5, 2006)

To be fair the price it costs sony to make a ps3 will slowly go down with time, all technology gets cheaper over time to make and assemble. So by the time they drop the price they won't really be losing much more if any more at all.


But anyway, I personally don't believe Sony is going anywhere, however I'm sure it'll be a bit more competitive for them this round though.


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## Legend (Oct 5, 2006)

Yunno what, fuck Sony AND Micro$oft.
The two of them are basically making powerhouse systems that will "knock your socks off!" with their graphical prowess, processors, blah blah blah.
Who gives a shit.

Ultimately, what it will boil down to is Innovation. What company is left, that will come out with something INNOVATIVE, not something that we have already seen but shinier? Nintendo. That's where it's going to be.

NINTENDO.

And Ace - Doesn't matter if Micro$oft has been building up franchises to compete with Sony & Nintendo's. It won't matter. People will go with what they know and love best. Who's going to win between Zelda and Fable? Do I even need to ask that question? Like I said, Micro$oft can't compete with already-established franchises.
Sony MIGHT be able to pull something out of their asses, due to the fact that they have so many franchises already in developmental stages for their next-gen system, like Metal Gear. People will buy a PS3 JUST to see how the Metal Gear franchise comes to an end, just as people will buy an Xbox JUST to see how the Halo franchise comes to an end. It all boils down to what franchises people know & love best, because as I said, they'll buy the console just to play the goddamn games.

My two cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Happy trails.


::Edit::
And let's not forget, even if Sony DOES get slaughtered in this new generation of consoles, that they are a multi-billion dollar company. They have tons and tons of money to be brought in from elsewhere, whether it's TVs or movies, they'll find some other way to stay alive. They're kinda like Herpes... They can only be treated, never fully cured.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Legend @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> Yunno what, fuck Sony AND Micro$oft.
> The two of them are basically making powerhouse systems that will "knock your socks off!" with their graphical prowess, processors, blah blah blah.
> Who gives a shit.
> 
> ...



First, the innovation point. I don't believe that. Yes innovation is important, and the Wii is awesome. But there's something to be said for the nostalgia of the classic controls. Some people like getting the same old thing over and over, and some people like it both ways (lol, bi-gameual). It's not wrong to want pretty games with classic controls, but luckilly we have Nintendo to offer an alernate solution as well.

And I didn't mean direct franchise competition, as in chosing one franchise over the other. Just more ways to milk money from the consumer, basically. If Microsoft has a game I want (Fable, for instance) that means I have to buy an Xbox 360. It's as simple as that, exclusives make the world go round. I wouldn't even own a PS2 right now if there weren't a handful of games on it I enjoyed. But that advantage is gone for Sony this gen (or so it seems).

But still, some of you have blind faith in a company because of its standing in the past, and quite frankly, that's not a good idea. Look at Nintendo, we all love Nintendo, they're great. But do you have any idea how close they were to death with the N64 and GameCube? History means nothing in this kind of battle. The people are quick to turn on a brand they previously loved for something different. Look at the battle of the N64 and PS1. Everyone was a hardcore SNES fan, and then the PS1 comes along and suddenly Nintendo doesn't seem as great (which I assume was the mindset of people switching from Nintendo-based consoles to PS1s in that era).

Companies die frequently, it just happens. No amount of faith you have in a company amounts to a hill of beans when the facts of their demise are right there in front of you, even if you choose not to see it. In this particular era Sony is taking major heat on all fronts. I don't know how you can look at them in the process of failing in every possible way, and still think they'll succeed. Bad business is bad business, and Sony is doing some seriously bad business.


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## Heran Bago (Oct 5, 2006)

You guysforget that producing consoles an games is a business. You know, making money. While Microsoft is somewhat financially stable, Sony is really banking on the PS3's success. They're getting ass-reaming by Apple and Samsung on their other business fronts, and they hope that they already have their foot in the door. With PS2 and PSX support, the PS3 has the biggest game library in history before it even launches.

However, Microsoft has enjoyed a level of success with its console. It's friendly to develop for, and has been seeing reasonable success.

We'll see how things pan out for Sony. The competition doesn't sem to be going anywhere, and Nintendo's new move will either be a huge hit or huge devastating miss. (Yes, I'm aware a good number of us here are more irrational fans, so if you are offended just omit the possibility of N not doing well).

Although I understand it's difficult to look at things from a business perspective when you're used to looking at it as a game player. This is especially true of gamers who don't entirely pay for their games.


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## Legend (Oct 5, 2006)

....

NINTENDO PWNZ J00 AND J00'RE FAMILY!

...and maybe your dog too.

Nintendo is going to climb, I think. Hopefully Sony will die, and will merge with Nintendo once again..

MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

/end psychotic fanboy.

Happy trails.


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## skywarp (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> But still, some of you have blind faith in a company because of its standing in the past, and quite frankly, that's not a good idea. Look at Nintendo, we all love Nintendo, they're great. But do you have any idea how close they were to death with the N64 and GameCube?



Not very close at all, things in that sense are really not as they seem. It took Sony's playstation division YEARS to even break even after the PS2 launch. Microsofts Xbox division WAS a deficet for the entirety of the Xbox's lifespan(thou I'm sure it still is). Nintendo was turning profit on the Gamecube MONTHES after it's release, simply due to the fact they sold the console itself at a profit. They can always lose marketshare yeah, but Nintendo never puts themselves in a situation where they stand to risk anything financially, they run opposite to both competitors like that. The other big factor behind Nintendo is the fact that most of the high-selling games on their systems are first-party, I don't think I need to explain the math there.

I can guarantee you, no matter how popular or unpopular the Wii is, it will easily be the most economically succesful of the three consoles. $250 is the most expensive a Nintendo console has ever been, and the Wii is easily the cheapest to produce out of all of them, since the tech is so old. This isn't like before where Nintendo made just a tiny profit on their consoles, it's huge. They will be selling their hardware at a huge profit ONTOP of software licensing and all of the income from their own software, this is compared to Sony selling their system at a huge cost to themselves, and trying to break even eventually with software licensing. It seems impossibly for Nintendo to ever dissappear if they run their business as smart as they are doing now, regardless of marketshare.


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## enarky (Oct 5, 2006)

To add fuel to the fire:

I'm astonished that nobody mentioned the recent Sony exploding battery debacle yet. Dell alone has recalled 4 million Sony Lithium-Ion Notebook batteries. Several other Laptop manufacturers (Apple, Toshiba, Lenevo, to name a few) must've recalled another several millions together. This will not look very good in their next financial reports. And it surely doesn't do their reputation any good.


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## TmP_stryk (Oct 5, 2006)

all ihave to say is , MASS EFFECT, BIOSHOCK, ALAN WAKE.. many more as well. mS pwnz


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(enarky @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> To add fuel to the fire:
> 
> I'm astonished that nobody mentioned the recent Sony exploding battery debacle yet. Dell alone has recalled 4 million Sony Lithium-Ion Notebook batteries. Several other Laptop manufacturers (Apple, Toshiba, Lenevo, to name a few) must've recalled another several millions together. This will not look very good in their next financial reports. And it surely doesn't do their reputation any good.


I am pretty sure this was already mentioned but it is worth mentioning again and yes, others, including Fujitsu, has announced the recall and the numbers are climbing close to 10 million.


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## Athlon-pv (Oct 5, 2006)

Ill say this about Sony , their choosing which leg they want amputated. It's either the left or the right one but they have to choose.

Sony will have a very bad 2007. Maybe slight rebound at the end of 2007. No way will they have an install base by the end of that year for all the software to sell.

They lost the war on handhelds ... They certainly are alienating their PS3 audience by retarded comments on people just have to get the money coz they said so ...

And the games on the PS3 have to impress to sell but the drawback is they cost alot more to make .... Somehow the HD capable console's shot themselfs in the foot regarding developing time/costs.

What if the Wii hits home, how many people would even bother with PS3 ? Then Ace gunman is right Sony is dead ....
Atleast this round ...


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## berlinka (Oct 5, 2006)

There's only one thing I am REALLY praying for. And it's not for Sony or Microsoft to fail. No, I just hope NINTENDO DOESN'T GET TO BE THE WINNER IN THIS WAR! Why you may ask? Well, it's obvious. When you rule the gaming world it somehow would be difficult to maintain the quality of the product. Nintendo imo tends to go into the opposition in a way that can be described as "Who isn't strong, must be smart". Well, smart they were with all their innovative ideas. But when they would be the glorious winner of all the other consoles, it could also go down hill faster than you can say "Wiiiiiiii". I hope Nintendo always stays in this situation where to Giants are fighting, and they just slip by with very original, bright ideas that get them in a safe spot on the innovation-hill, while plotting on other nice new ideas, while laughing at the other bastards!


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## leehom (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> *ARTICLE 5:* http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154029
> *SUMMARY 5:* Many developers (in this case, Square-Enix) don't have faith in the PS3, and are going cross-platform. Kingdom Hearts may be coming to Wii instead of the PS3, Grand Theft Auto is now cross-platform (360 and PS3), Solid Snake is appearing in Super Smash Bros: Brawl, and there are countless more examples. Example: Originally Assassin's Creed was PS3 exclusive, now it's cross-platform. Basically, PS3 is losing brands and exclusives left and right.
> 
> *ADDITIONAL FACTS:*
> ...



Im going to ignore your first four articles/links due to the fact that you sound like a kid who is having an anxiety attack. You posting these articles to back up your idea or theory proves that you know NOTHING when it comes to stocks or business for that matter. The PSP, I'll leave that out because I do not care about how successful or unsuccessful hand helds are. I own a flashed black DS and well, for the most part it compliments my black shelf nicely.

On to article five. Cross-platforming. Sony losing exclusives left and right? Your either blind or just dumb. You bring in an hypothetical situation without any PROOF, "Sony might lose KH to Wii" as your basis is pathetic. Im interested in the "countless others" claim you've made. Snake appearing in another game for another platform does not mean it's a loss exclusive. Im sure you couldn't even name more than five exclusives that Sony have lost. The great thing about the PS3 is the exlusive games that you WILL NOT be able to play on the WII. GT5, MGS4, GOW3, FFXIII etc etc.

Your additional "facts" are so misconstrued. The average consumer can't afford a $500 PS3, but they can afford a $400 video ipod. Yea, that makes alot of sense. PS3 games aren't even for sale yet, so where are you pulling the $90 USD per game in JAPAN. First of all, this is in Japan where the market is DIFFERENT from the American market. Second of all, Sony released a price list a few days ago. I think you should read that and insert your foot in your mouth. What delays and various factors? Can you be more specific or would you rather wander off in your fantasy land of hyperbolic bs.

Im not even going to continue reading the rest of his post. There's too many discrepancies that are just WAY OFF. I hope no one on this forum with half a brain believes any of this garbage from this "MS fanboy". For someone to go out of his way and post such a lengthy post bashing Sony makes me believe he is a viral marketer.


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## leehom (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Opium @ Oct 5 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > 2. People will buy software for the console they own regardless of price, yes? And when the PS3 has most of the established game characters running on their system people will buy a PS3 for those games. From my friends I've basically gathered that the only real mascot for the Xbox is Halo, all the other games are available on either both systems or just the Playstation. That's kind of the impression at the moment. PS3 will sell through stock constantly, they wont have many troubles with sales.
> ...



Wrong. What other system has the capability the PS3 has to reproduce these franchises from SQ-E and Konami? Wii? No way. 360? Possible, but unlikely due to the small user base. As much as you Nintendo fanboys wish for it, it will never come true. Why do you think many developers turned away from Nintendo back in the mid 90's? Nintendo burned alot of bridges with third party developers IF any of you guys remember that. Why do you think the N64 and GC was a disappointment? 

Im intrigued about the Wii as much as the next guy, but I would like Nintendo to have some third party exclusives before I feel that it is worth purchasing. They have more support than their previous systems, but there isn't any MUST HAVE games I've seen outside of Zelda or Mario. It's pretty obvious there isn't many "great" games being released for the Wii when people are drooling over Rayman. Before anyone calls me a Sony fanboy, I don't think there isn't any game warranting a PS3 day one purchase, but I'll buy them both on day one (even w/o a game) because I love them both regardless.


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

quote new guy "Im going to ignore your first four articles/links due to the fact that you sound like a kid who is having an anxiety attack"

I love the fact that you are calling out the original poster for sounding like a kid but only a true child would not read all the facts and just let his or her fanboy flag fly. You repeatedly say you will not or have not read all of the material provided by Ace Gunman so there fore I would pretty much count your opinion as uninformed. Especially when you discount the very first article which paints a pretty grim picture for Sony. The fact that you want to blind yourself to the facts reveal that it may be you, sir or madam, that is the viral marketer.


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## leehom (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(ds6220 @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> quote new guy "Im going to ignore your first four articles/links due to the fact that you sound like a kid who is having an anxiety attack"
> 
> I love the fact that you are calling out the original poster for sounding like a kid but only a true child would not read all the facts and just let his or her fanboy flag fly. You repeatedly say you will not or have not read all of the material provided by Ace Gunman so there fore I would pretty much count your opinion as uninformed. Especially when you discount the very first article which paints a pretty grim picture for Sony. The fact that you want to blind yourself to the facts reveal that it may be you, sir or madam, that is the viral marketer.


If you knew any of the facts rather than reading some guys "opinions which he thinks is facts", than you wouldn't even question me. Therefore, you questioning me proves that you know nothing. Go to www.neogaf.com and read up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you even read the replies to his post, many people state that Sony is going nowhere. This guy is basically saying that Sony screwed up with the PS3/PSP and will go bankrupt. Many of the things he made up, he has no source or proof to back up his claims. He just blindly makes assumptions and wants you to believe their facts. This is what a viral marketer is. He is directing fire at Sony to give you and others a negative view on the PS3/PSP.

Im sort of offended that you called me a viral marketer, but honestly I don't care since its apparant you have little knowledge of what is going on. If you could "prove" it, then you might be on to something.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

Well first of all, leehom, there's no need to be offensive. Second of all, don't double post (heh, sorry, sometimes my ex-Op mindset sets in). And third of all, I've been following Sony and PS3 news with an eagle eye as of late. Some of these claims seem unsubstantiated you say? That's because I don't bookmark every single article I read. It took me 2 straight hours to track down all the information (mainly the articles) I inserted into my topic, and even then I couldn't track them all down. This is not me making up facts and spewing out propaganda to back up "my theory" (as you so bluntly put it), this is me relaying the facts I've already read in various news articles... into a collective topic. The purpose of said topic is to show the downward spiral of Sony at the current time. Individually the articles make Sony's situation look bad, collectively however, it makes their situation look absolutely abysmal. 

It's not as if I went around to various news sites posing as a column writer to create faux-news, thse are legitimate articles that raise ligitimate points. And I'm sorry I didn't spend 5 hours tracking down every single source I've ever read on the topic to back up my additional facts section (which if I could have found them again, would each have had an article section and summary of their own). So before you go about criticizing my topic, how about you actually read the articles. And if you don't believe my additional facts, verify them yourself. If you're going to challenge my integrity, then atleast bring in substantiated proof of your own.


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(leehom @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> QUOTE(ds6220 @ Oct 5 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > quote new guy "Im going to ignore your first four articles/links due to the fact that you sound like a kid who is having an anxiety attack"
> ...







I love it when people state that Sony is going nowhere. Why do people actually believe that just because a company is big or was big will always stay that way. ignorant. I also love how you keep saying that he is just posting his opinion. Did you read the articles he linked? No, I am pretty sure you did not. It is always sad to view those in compete and utter denial. Battery recalls, TV sales way down, portable music players way below the competition, portable game market in the tank, they have so much riding on this PS3 that they may be in big trouble. The loose money when they sell a system and need to make it up with software sales but you said yourself that you may only buy the system. Nice, kill the company that you so obviously work for. I also am greatly amused by people like you when given all the facts on a silver tray they still say we don't know what we are talking about. You are calling out those of us that have been burned in the past by similar situations. TG16 with the CD add on? Check. 3DO? Check. Sega CD? Check. 32X? Check. Dreamcast? Check. Also, look at the track record for Proprietary formats that Sony backs all the time. Have you used your MiniDisc player in a while? How is your UMD library doing? You pick up a Blu Ray player yet? Seriously. You sound like a retard.


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## berlinka (Oct 5, 2006)

Is it just me or is this Leehom fellow not the nicest bloke on the planet (I even dare to say that's an understatement). Jeez, some people will never learn will they?


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## Hitto (Oct 5, 2006)

I've always been irritated when sonytards kept repeating how Nintendo was going to die or go third-party, and I am growing afraid of seeing my own side suffer of the same stupidity.
The business world doesn't work like that. If you fail at a product's launch, you have, as a company, what we call a war chest. Nintendo's is huge, but both Sony's and Microsoft's are nothing to be scoffed at.

Most of the analogies you brought up are flawed because these companies were not market leaders. There are some things you just can, and can't do when you have a given position in the marketplace. Sega were shooting themselves in the foot and they hadn't even won against the SNES. NEC wasn't even relevant. Sony's proprietary formats ren't used by the public, but they have a rousing success still in the profession (ever seen your neighbor hold a betacam, anyone?)
But stupid strategies does NOT a dead company make. Stockholders jumping ship, and nobody buying anything at all, maybe. And even then, I already talked about state-backed protectionism. You *really* need to look it up, I'm serious about this. Did Nintendo die? No. They became the underdog, and have now begun their phoenix-like resurrection. Their humiliation after their arrogance has made them a better company judging from my DS games.

And as I already pointed out, ONLY WE NERDS CARE about the rootkit fiasco. The stillborn next-gen disc format war. People are going to line up for this console, and it will even be true (it will mostly be true!) for people on welfare. Brand loyalty is NOT something that dies so easily. Because if that were the case, I wouldn't even be interested by the next home console Nintendo is releasing. I'd just shrug, think about zelda : flash-based boat sim, mario kart : in name only, and F-Zero : the CPU is a fucking cheating bastard.

Now, I also think about MGS4 : let's stich wounds because that was SO FUN in 3, amirite?! and Pro Evolution Soccer 59 : hey guyz, let's go play mario strikers instead..., and GT : still can't break cars and it will cost 800 bucks, and  am not interested in a PS3 anyway. But seriously, WHO CARES IF SONY DIES?
It makes one less competitor on the market!

I've been known for my somewhat inflammatory anti-sony posts, because I estimate that in their period of domination, they did more evil things than Nintendo did in their time, the games released these last ten years have been utter shit apart from a few gems here and there on the maverick consoles, and I seriously never noticed that the PSX had won the first war because we were all busy playing superior games on the 64.

But why do you want a company to die, anyway? It is bad news for US, the consumers. It makes less choice available. I'm quite happy to know that if someone buys a sony product, I can safely put them in the "I hate you" category. Just two days ago, some dude was considering buying a PSP, I told him "wanna try out a few DS games before?", he just answered "why would I invest 200 euros in a souped-up gameboy?". See, easy. He's a retard!

So please, fellow nintenfags, let's NOT be as fucking stupid as the xbots and sonytards.

Please. Live and let live. Or die.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

Personally, while as a gamer I accept all consoles, I'll buy any console I have to to play the games I love. I could care less if Sony fails or succeeds. Actually, that's not true. I suppose I am leaning towards failure, but not because they pissed me off with their negative announcements (Nintendo did the same not to long ago, and I got over that). The reason I'm leaning towards hoping for failure is just as Hitto said: one less competitor. How much easier would it make it for us gamers if we didn't have to buy 3 consoles? As long as there are two on the market competition will still inspire great games.

EDIT: And surely there must be a better name for Nintendo fanboys than "Nintenfags". How about Nintendorks? I'm proud to be an Xbot, Sonytard, and Nintendork!


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## Orc (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> EDIT: And surely there must be a better name for Nintendo fanboys than "Nintenfags". How about Nintendorks? I'm proud to be an Xbot, Sonytard, and Nintendork!



lol I like his /v/ state of mind...

Anyway, I don't want any companies to die. I won't gain anything off of it really. Neither if they fail. Good competition will make them make what gamers want and what's left is for us to choose. 

I also don't get/buy this console war BS or anything really. Most of it is just faggotry* or frustration basically. Let the companies compete with each other. I think we only gain from it anyway. As long as we get good games, I'm happy.

*(no offense to fags, I just like to use the term in an entirely different derogatory remark in the interwebs. whatever fags lol)


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## leehom (Oct 5, 2006)

Here goes....LOL (btw I hate online debates)

1. Every (or almost every) console has lost money on hardware sales except Nintendo. I think this has been discussed already so I'll skip it.

2. Do you even know why the shares fell $1.03? because of the PS3?. They fell because of the PS3 overheating in the kiosks. This has some people worried that the PS3 will be the second coming of the Xbox360 (hardware problems). Sony is a large company like Microsoft. Just because one division has caused shares to tumble ever so slightly doesn't mean their whole business will collapse (this is in reference to the panic/anxiety attack comment). This has already been discussed as well, no point in me taking it further. 

3. Yes, there are some developers who believe the PSP is failing. To say that no third party developers will support the system is a killing blow is presumptuous. Look at how well Nintendo held up with only their first party games for the N64/GC.

4. Sony executives doubting Blu-Ray? Thats the first time I've heard of such rumors. "Bottom line: if Blu-ray fails, Sony dies." Another reason why I made the anxiety comment.

5. Exclusives, I already discussed this and you have yet to reply.

6. Analysts suggest the PSP sales will be abysmal. Who cares? Like I said earlier, Idc about hand helds. 

On to the good stuff. Additional fiction/facts/rumors.

1. I agree with what has been already posted. IMO, the majority of the people who complain about prices would be the ones who think its overpriced or can't afford it. Even if I was poor, I would just save up ahead of time and purchase the system or I would wait for a price drop. Complaining about the price is a weak arguement. I have yet to hear someone complain about the overpriced IPODS, $200 Jordans, Mercedes Benz, etc. If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one is forcing you to spend your hard earned $500-$600 on a PS3.

2. This whole paragraph is wtf to me. "Sony pissed _alot_ of people off with one negative announcement after another regarding the PS3. They're making no allies and getting constant bad press. So far the only positive announcement has been that the Japanese core PS3 got a price drop, and even that was accompanied by the fact that Japanese PS3 games will now retail for close to $90 USD. Then there's the delays, and various other factors."

What negative announcements? The price of the system, Europe delayed till March or the shortage of blue laser diodes? Thats pretty much the only negative "press" I could think of off the top of my head. Allies, what allies? Is this a war? What constant bad press? The retail Japanese games for $90 USD rumor has already been squashed. BTW the prices for Japanese games include tax. What other delays other than the PS3 for Europe in March? What other various factors? Im interested because I haven't read anything about this in NEOGAF.

3. This third fact was just dumb. I doubt Sony plans the PS3 to last ten years as a gaming platform. Could you provide a solid link to this?

4. "What many people don't know is that game hardware spec comparisons have been done, and the Xbox 360 is actually equal to the PS3 in most way, and even surpasses it in others. This means the consumer can get (basically) the same level of power for a smaller cost."

The PS2 is the weakest system out of the three (Xbox and GC) yet they were the most successful. Im sure you know this as many others do, software sells hardware. The main reason why I'll be purchasing a PS3 on day one is because of their extensive and huge third party support that will carry over from the PS2, not because it has "blast processing or mode 7".

5. "*** Blu-ray is slower loading/reading than HD-DVD, has a less recognizable brand name (HD-DVD is an obvious combination of High Definition and DVD), it will scratch like crazy due to the data being closer to the surface (and a lesser protective coating), manufacturers don't believe Blu-Ray recorders can succeed in North America, and now that the 360 has an optional HD-DVD drive, it basically has the same advantage as PS3's blu-ray player (except in this case you can choose to shell out money for it rather than having the price of the console jacked up)."

Where do you come up with this? EGM has already reported that Blu-Ray discs is more durable than HD-DVD discs. I think their qoute was "You could scratch it with wool and it'll still work" or something to that effect. Their not bringing Blu-Ray recorders because it'll cost over $2,000 right now. The HD-DVD recorders cost over $2,000 too. Whats your point? Even if we had a chance to purchase either for $2,000, Im sure next to no one will.

Oh yess...the optional HD-DVD debate. This is whats going to prematurely kill the 360 imo. Whats funny is how the MS fanboys complain about the $500-$600 PS3, but their waiting to purchase the HD-DVD add on. $400 (xbox 360) + $200 (HD-DVD add on) = $600 (PS3 Blu-Ray) + wifi + 60 gig hd + hdmi. I wonder which one is over priced now? There's also this thing about the security feature (which I forgot the name of) that might render the 360 HD-DVD add on useless if activated because it only works through HDMI which the 360 add on does not include. 

6. "*** Sony apparently hasn't delivered the online specs to developers, meaning they won't be able to implement online play any time soon. This one's not confirmed, but if it's true it means they're not taking online play seriously, and they need to because Xbox live has a rather large head start." 

I believe their taking it seriously. What about the Wii's online plan? We have yet to hear anything about their plans, yet everyone bashes on Sony and praises everything Nintendo does.

7. *** The Xbox 360 already has a large head start, and rumor has it they'll be lowering their prices and improving internal hardware (nothing major, just some new chips and fixes, etc) in 2007. Which will make competition even more fierce. Not to mention additional non-direct (as stated by Nintendo) competition from the Wii as well.

What large head start? Many believe that MS has done a poor job with their head start and didn't capitalize on it. From poor software to their many hardware issues and their "warranty" to their confusing add on. Every system that has offered an add on to my knowledge has failed. Sega CD, Turbo Graphx-16 CD and Atari Jaguar CD. I happened to have owned all three at one point in my life.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




8. *** A long time ago it was announced that the PS3 budget version will not be backwards compatible (I believe it was e3), if this still stands it will be a huge drawback for the consumer. I have no idea if that still stands, but feel free to correct me if that has since changed.

False. This isn't MS where you have to purchase their premium package with the hard drive only to have limited backwards compatibility. You have to wait for their new "firmware" releases to play your limited backward compatbility, good job!

9. *** HD-DVD at the moment has stronger sales than Sony's Blu-ray format, and it too had a head start. Not to mention Blu-ray's one advantage (the fact that it could hold more data) is useless at this point, as apparently Sony can get the larger capacity disks to work on existing Blu-ray players.

HD-DVD has two strong selling points. The name HD-DVD alone is enough to make it more successful in retail sales due to the number of idiots who have no idea what HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is. They'll look at HD-DVD and see that it has the words DVD in it and puchase that over Blu-Ray. The second selling point is its price. When you can purchase a HD-DVD player for $500 vs $1,000 for a Blu-Ray, which format will you initially go with? You know that as well as I do, that the real HD/Blu-Ray wars start when the PS3 is released. Does this automatically make Blu-Ray the winner? Of course not, but Im interested in the outcome between the two in the coming year or years.

10. *** Sony's PSP UMD movie format was an utter failure. It didn't sell, and if I remember correctly because of that... they stopped produbing movies in this format. This may have been changed if Sony had released UMD recorders, but they were so set on keeping pirates away from their format that they refused to let that happen.

I agree with this. Sony takes piracy too seriously. Look at what happened with N64 and GC. One of the main reasons why Nintendo went with that method for a storage medium was because of piracy.

11. *** Various game stores are speculating (based on recent polls) that the PS3 will sell terribly in Japan this winter, going as far  as giving it an equal market share figure to that of the Xbox 360. Which is ironic, as based on earlier polls before all of Sony's bad press, the PS3 was by far the most anticipated next-gen console. Now? Not so much.

Who cares about video game store POLLS? This isn't an consumer poll and regardless of Japan or U.S. the PS3 will be sold out this holiday season. Your using any piece of information whether its useful or not to bash Sony which I find is lame.

12. Well, that's all I can think of off the top of my head, but everything there spells out what we're all thinking: Sony is dead in the water, and they don't even know it. I mean what does it say about a company if they're going to lose billions even if they do succeed, and even more if they try and lower the price for the consumer? It says "dead meat". By the by, the first article is the msot important one. Above all else, read it.

Correction, only what you and a few misinformed consumers are thinking. By your theory, MS should have went under by now with the losses they've accumulated with the Xbox and 360. Out of the four pages of this thread, I've only read about 4-5 people who blindly agree with you. I assume these guys didn't read your whole post and their just Sony haters (which Sony seems to have alot of now). What's sad is that its the popular thing to bash "Sony" and anything they do because of the PS3 price tag.


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## Athlon-pv (Oct 5, 2006)

Basicly i dont care , if you buy a ps3 and your happy with it , good . If you buy a xbox360 and happy with it , good. If you buy a Nintendo Wii and are happy with it thats good too ....

We all make our own choices. But regardless of them Sony doesnt look very good at this moment.

Why would Nintendo dare to release the Wii 2 days after Sony when Sony marketing is feared by everybody ....

Sony pulled out of the European and Australian market suddenly. To claim that everything is hunky dory there is weird ...

Selling out is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  But Sony _cant_ supply and software companies that made launch titles wont be happy since there arent enough people with systems for them to make some cash ...


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## leehom (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(ds6220 @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> QUOTE(leehom @ Oct 5 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(ds6220 @ Oct 5 2006 said:
> ...



If you believe Sony's income is solely based on their electronics, you are a fool and I will not waste my time with you about this topic. You bash Sony, yet you forget that their also responsible for creating DVD's that you now love so dearly. Sony is going where Microsoft is going, no where. 

"The loose money when they sell a system and need to make it up with software sales but you said yourself that you may only buy the system." 

I guess I need to spell it out for you since its obvious your not smart enough to figure it out. I do not believe there is any game at launch worth warranting me to purchase the system at LAUNCH. There might be a game later this year I might purchase. The only games Im interested in at the moment are the exclusives, FFXIII, MGS4, DMC4, GT5 etc.

" Nice, kill the company that you so obviously work for. I also am greatly amused by people like you when given all the facts on a silver tray they still say we don't know what we are talking about. You are calling out those of us that have been burned in the past by similar situations. TG16 with the CD add on? Check. 3DO? Check. Sega CD? Check. 32X? Check. Dreamcast? "

How does the CD add ons have anything to do with this? The PS3 isn't an add on to the PS2. The 360 HD-DVD is an add on to the 360, yet you mention nothing of this....


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

you think Sony created the DVD format?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 Ok. Man, Toshiba (edit, and Philips) must have missed that memo.


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## Renegade_R (Oct 5, 2006)

Sony is going to cause eBay fever, its the easiest way to build free publicity.  I am going to try as hard as I can to participate in the eBay fever.  If I can get even 1 unit to sell I'll be so happy.

Edit: The reason why Sony has been so desperately trying to push the Blu-Ray format because they are not getting massive royalties from DVDs and their ability to charge for CDs is running out REALLY fast.  I hate the Blu-Ray discs too...i feel like I want to punch myself everytime I say it.

*punches self 2 times*


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## leehom (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(ds6220 @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> you think Sony created the DVD format?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I typed it wrong. Im not sure what I read in EGM, but it said Sony helped develop CD, DVD or both.


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

Sony and Philips were working on the Multimedia Compact Disc and Toshiba was working on (along with a bunch of other companies, most notably Time-Warner) Super Density disc. Instead of another Beta vs. VHS type format war Sony and Philips agreed to the SD format but apparently added 2 additional technologies to help. The first one was a proprietary Philips/Sony technology involving tracking and the other was a Philips technology that helped with the discs ability to resist damage. EFMPlus I believe it was. So, yeah, Renegade_R would be right about the lack of royalties.


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## blueraja (Oct 5, 2006)

Good post Hitto, the levels of fanboyisim are truly astounding lately.

Ace, did you actually read the articles you posted and "summarized?"  

The first article is totally flawed becasue if fails to account for games and peripherals or bluray licensing in its made up numbers.


The second is accurate in that Sony's stock has taken a tumble, however this is due more to the recall of almost every notebook battery Sony has made in the past 3 years than the ps3.  BTW you do know that unlike Sony, Nintendo does not trade on Nikkei?  They are actually a "pink sheet" stock which is normally reserved for penny stocks, most serious investors completely ignore pink sheet trading.

The third states that developers think the PSP has failed yet is based on an article that says a podcast on another site has comment in which the podcaster declares that some anonymous developer has declared the PSP dead, where is a quote, who's the developer, what company is he/she from.  Until at least one of those questions is answered the statement is no more valid than my saying that the nguage will make a huge comeback and overtake the DS.

The 4th article was nice...I think digital downloads are going to become more and more important to as bandwidth increases but at the moment over 50% of the users in the US are still on dialup so 5 years is a bit optimistic unless they plan on going to all mini games.   The summary didnt say Bluray was a failure or that it wouldnt last...it stated that it is an important step for them in content delivery and that digital delivery will become increasingly important.  The percentages dont matter much in this case.  More people stream videos on Youtube every day than go to the movies...but that doesnt make YouTube equal in quality or experience.

5th article, Once again Square who hasnt had a good game in 5 years declares themselves the life or death of entire platforms.  They never state that they dont have faith...they stated they dont want to put all their eggs in one basket.  In other words they are covering their asses so that no matter who suceeds they will be in a position to support them.  They also never stats Kingdom Hearts for the Wii that was entirely the authors speculation.  BTW Metal Gear has already been on the Game Cube (Twin Snakes) and started on the NES so why is this supposed to be an indiction of anything?

The last article i found most amusing...who are the "analysts" I never see them named.  The same article mentioned the PSP2 which has already been proven to be BS, basically the entire article is more guesses and speculation based on rumors and wishes.  Here's an analyst who has declared the Wii and 360 as dead in the water and thinks Sony is unbeatable.  

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-36375,00.html

The bottom line is analysts are fickle and their opinions vary as wide as anyone elses.

I wont even go into the guesses and half truth of the "facts" you list afterwords.  In the end your long post just proved to be another fanboy dream for the death of Sony.

Before the "sony" fanboy accusations fly you should know I dont even own a ps2.  The only current generation console I have is a gamecube with 37 games.  In my family there are 2 DS's, 3 GBASP's and 1 PSP.  I would love to see Nintendo come back to the top of the heap, but its going to be a hard fight not the cakewalk that fanboys are declaring.  I admire the passion and the attempt to come across as posting real facts but if the links that "prove" the statements are themselves speculation it is no more truth than a group of kids playing "grapevine".


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

This is really emotionally stressful, I think I'm having a breakdown. I think I'm done. I was just trying to make an interesting topic with information I had been keeping an eye on lately. But now... yeah I can't, I'm done.


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> This is really emotionally stressful, I think I'm having a breakdown. I think I'm done. I was just trying to make an interesting topic with information I had been keeping an eye on lately. But now... yeah I can't, I'm done.


now don't go all Dragonminded on us. As I said originally, there is a reason for the high price on you head (60 billion double dollars was it?) you had the balls to make a post that would bring out all the rabid Sony fans. Same would have happened if this was pointing out all the dumb things Nintendo was doing if this was back in the 90s. People get passionate about this stuff as you know, but what bugs me the most is when you put all this effort into posting your feelings on the matter then back it up with the facts as they are reported, you still get lambasted for making things up.


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## lagman (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> This is really emotionally stressful, I think I'm having a breakdown. I think I'm done. I was just trying to make an interesting topic with information I had been keeping an eye on lately. But now... yeah I can't, I'm done.



When someone put passions and feelings on a discussion of facts, it never ends well  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Lets just be happy with the console(s) of our choice, and let´s hope no company dissapear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Why can´t we be friends?Why can´t we be friends?Why can´t we be friends?


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## blueraja (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings that wasnt the intention.  I just really believe that this generations console war is truly up for grabs, all have their positives and negatives.  For everything that has been posted there are articles to counter them with the exact opposite point, which tells me that no one knows whats going to happen.  My own dream would be not for Sony to die, I think competition is good, but for Nintendo to rise back to the level of love and respect it enjoyed in the SNES days.  I think they are far too good at game making to be dismissed as "kiddie" and also-rans.  Heck I'd be thrilled with a 3 way split..it would mean that all the consoles had worthy exclusives and that everyones tastes in gaming were being addressed.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

Heh, no, no one hurt my feelings. It's actually really difficult to do that. It's more like... say I was a painter, for example. And I painted a picture a thought was really beautiful, and then someone came and criticized my painting, saying the contrast was wrong, the strokes were backwards, and what-have-you. I'm merely upset because of personal issues, and because I put alot into this in an attempt to become part of the community again. To put up a cheerful front so not to bring the rest of GBAtemp down (basically I was trying to be "my old self"). So hopefully you get where I'm coming from. Also, I have a headache and I'm starting to get sick, so that's not helping.


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## Elrinth (Oct 5, 2006)

I think PS3 will sell as butter, not enough people will care about the price for it not to sell out.


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## Hitto (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> Heh, no, no one hurt my feelings. It's actually really difficult to do that. It's more like... say I was a painter, for example. And I painted a picture a thought was really beautiful, and then someone came and criticized my painting, saying the contrast was wrong, the strokes were backwards, and what-have-you. I'm merely upset because of personal issues, and because I put alot into this in an attempt to become part of the community again. To put up a cheerful front so not to bring the rest of GBAtemp down (basically I was trying to be "my old self"). So hopefully you get where I'm coming from. Also, I have a headache and I'm starting to get sick, so that's not helping.



Dude, everyday, I have at least three people who come in and tell *me* how to do *my* paintings "better". Also, the kind of people who ask if I copied another painter. Or if it's oil or acrylic. The worst ones are the ones who ask you how long you take to make a painting. Do they ask a brain surgeon how long a brain operation lasts? There will always be people like that. I give them "the look", and they leave.

I don't recall you not being part of the community anymore, by the way. And, you made an interesting enough post to spark debate. Didn't see many rabid or stupid sony fanbois in here, and usually, I call out the astroturfers when I see'em. I just think sony dying is a pipe dream. Only time will tell!


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Elrinth @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> I think PS3 will sell as butter, not enough people will care about the price for it not to sell out.


Of course they will sell out. They created the high demand by not being able to release enough units at launch (MS had this problem too). 400K is pretty low for the US and 100K seems pretty low for Japan too.


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## Ace Gunman (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Hitto @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Ace Gunman @ Oct 5 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > Heh, no, no one hurt my feelings. It's actually really difficult to do that. It's more like... say I was a painter, for example. And I painted a picture a thought was really beautiful, and then someone came and criticized my painting, saying the contrast was wrong, the strokes were backwards, and what-have-you. I'm merely upset because of personal issues, and because I put alot into this in an attempt to become part of the community again. To put up a cheerful front so not to bring the rest of GBAtemp down (basically I was trying to be "my old self"). So hopefully you get where I'm coming from. Also, I have a headache and I'm starting to get sick, so that's not helping.
> ...



Eh, it just kind of turned into a wiki-battle on GBAtemp, you know? Have any of you ever been involved in one? They're not pleasant. You're just a guy trying to inform people of something, and then someone (or many people) come along and change your edits, and get your sections deleted, and at that point most people snap. They take what's called a "wikibreak". In my case, I got tired of it, snapped, and just ended my account. I made sure I'd never be able to access it again.

It's just not fun doing something to better inform people, just to be helpful. And then having your work shunned, deleted, become the topic of 3 message boards in an attempt for some people to sway other people to delete my work because they misinterpreted it... erm, but yeah, you guys get the idea. Completely off topic for a moment, i think I have the stomach flu, ugh. Getting 4 hours of sleep last night certainly didn't help.


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## Renegade_R (Oct 5, 2006)

Game Console Fanboyism...the new religion.


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## ds6220 (Oct 5, 2006)

QUOTE(Renegade_R @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> Game Console Fanboyism...the new religion.



You know, I realize that is a joke, but it is really very true. Only religion or politics seem to elicit this type of response. I think you are dead right on this.


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## Bitbyte (Oct 5, 2006)

Oh the drama =((((. Seriously, nice topic, sweet research, but don't think too much of internet criticism


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## Heran Bago (Oct 5, 2006)

Argment's dead as soon as fanboyism comes into play. Peaople can play the fanboy card to pass someone else's point of veiw as irrational and stupid, while making themselfs seem more balanced and neutral.

Also, business, serious business.

Also, lol internets.


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## JohnDrake (Oct 6, 2006)

Sony PR brilliance at work again.

From a GI.biz interview with SCE Worldwide Europe Vice President, Jamie MacDonald:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=20189



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> *What would you say to consumers who like Sony and want to buy your products, but perhaps feel that because they're in Europe they're always last in line?*
> 
> *European consumers have shown that historically they don't mind that,* because they end up buying as many PlayStations, if not more, than the US and Japan. In Europe, it doesn't seem that the release of our platforms after the US and Japan - in the long run - affects how consumers feel.
> 
> ...



Like I said before, everyone outside of the USA and Japan is getting screwed.


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## Hitto (Oct 6, 2006)

If you're a company and are planning a release strategy, do you :

1- Listen to the market analysis which shows that consumers are a cowardly, superstitious lot that will gobble up anything produced by your company like a hot wad of awesome in your mouth?

2- Listen to some angry internet fanbois?

In the end, sony listens to CHA-CHING, the cash register. Since, as CONSUMERS, we are too WEAK to show our wants through BOYCOTT, the only thing sony notices is "haha, they keep giving us money! they LOVE what we're doing! we must keep doing it!". It's perfectly natural of them to say "get on all fours, you bitch!", since that's what europe, historically, does.

You and I might have done the very same thing in their position. Sometimes, you can't govern an empire by skimming through every consumer's doleances, otherwise you don't get anything done.

Now, I didn't say this was a strategy that leads to success. Nintendo is going to prove that by offering something no consumer asked for, yet will be surprised by.


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## Heran Bago (Oct 6, 2006)

If you were Sony, you'd see this and say "we're heading in the right direction; we just need to keep doing what we're doing, but maybe make some innovations on the handheld front.
If you were Nintendo, you'd think "okay fux, we need to do something batshit nuts if we want to have a chance with this console stuff.


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## cruddybuddy (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE(Heran Bago @ Oct 5 2006 said:


> If you were Sony, you'd see this and say "we're heading in the right direction; we just need to keep doing what we're doing, but maybe make some innovations on the handheld front.
> If you were Nintendo, you'd think "okay fux, we need to do something batshit nuts if we want to have a chance with this console stuff.



I like how you make Sony sound thoughtful and Nintendo sound like your 14-year-old classmates.


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## transce080 (Oct 6, 2006)

I recently got a PSP and I can attest that's it's f#$%ing amazing.  Screen size and graphics just blow the DS out of the water.  You can use it as an mp3 player or a personal video player as easy as plugging it into the usb and dragging and dropping your files.  Between that, displaying pictures, and browsing the internet, pretty much everyone I show it to wants one.  Add to that the fact that all the firmware versions of the PSP (at present) have been hacked and can easily be modded to play emulators and homebrew 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 games, and you have one desirable handheld system.


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## Kagaden (Oct 6, 2006)

Additional facts portion of this needs it's sources sited.

Though I agree Sony is in a bad position and they've only been making it worse.


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## Hitto (Oct 6, 2006)

QUOTE(dark420bishop @ Oct 6 2006 said:


> I recently got a PSP and I can attest that's it's f#$%ing amazing.Â Screen size and graphics just blow the DS out of the water.Â You can use it as an mp3 player or a personal video player as easy as plugging it into the usb and dragging and dropping your files.Â Between that, displaying pictures, and browsing the internet, pretty much everyone I show it to wants one.Â Add to that the fact that all the firmware versions of the PSP (at present) have been hacked and can easily be modded to play emulators and homebrew
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see roots, I see leaves, and I see two posts trying to sell us a PSP. Hello, little plant!


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## Athlon-pv (Oct 6, 2006)

It just shows that there not many people in here that have the same Sony experience it is the odd one out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

Which explains a few things.

Btw if your wondering why Sony dumped EU and AUS as a sack of shit, most likely due to media attention in USA and JAPAN is far easier for them to advertise. And just keep the damage limited press in both countries would kill them if they didnt participate in that market ..

The EU is just one large market where alot of different countries have different people and marketing isnt as straight forward as it is for other countries ...

Not that "we" care for Sony i think they will sell but not alot but that didnt change anything for Sony i bet their target year is 2008, 2007 is lost ...


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## ShADyX (Oct 7, 2006)

*yawn*

same old shit.

thanks for sharing though....................i think


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## iNFiNiTY (Oct 7, 2006)

PSP Upcoming to end of the year

10/06  	Stacked with Daniel Ne...
10/08 	Scarface: Money. Power...
10/10 	Avatar: The Last Airbe...
Gun Showdown
Hard Rock Casino
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
10/11 	Scooby Doo! Who'...
10/16 	Family Guy
10/17 	Ace Combat X: Skies of...
Cabela's African ...
Eureka 7 V.1: New Wave
FIFA 07
Ford Bold Moves Street...
WTF
10/23 	Dungeon Siege: Throne ...
Medal of Honor Heroes
10/24 	BattleZone
Capcom Classics Collec...
Dynasty Warriors Vol. 2
Snoopy vs. the Red Baron
Star Trek: Tactical As...
10/25 	Dave Mirra BMX Challenge
10/26 	ATV Offroad Fury Pro
10/30 	Blitz: The League Over...
Grand Theft Auto: Vice...
10/31 	Activision Hits Remixed
EA Replay
Killzone: Liberation
Mind Quiz
Need for Speed Carbon:...
Power Stone Collection
Shrek Smash and Crash
11/02 	Every Extend Extra
Lumines II
11/07 	Bubble Bobble Evolution
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Sega Genesis Collection
SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs...
Tony Hawk's Proje...
Warhammer: Battle for ...
11/10 	Justice League Heroes
11/14 	Death Jr. 2: Root of Evil
Eragon
Gitaroo-Man Lives!
Gunpey-R
Metal Slug Anthology
NFL Street 3
Over the Hedge: Hammy ...
Pimp My Ride
Rayman Raving Rabbids
WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW...
Xiaolin Showdown
Yu-Gi-Oh! GX Tag Force
11/15 	Thrillville
11/16 	Mortal Kombat: Unchained
11/20 	Superman Returns: The ...
11/21 	Capcom Puzzle World
Sonic Rivals
11/28 	Online Chess Kingdoms
The Sims 2: Pets
12/05 	Brothers in Arms D-Day
Metal Gear Solid: Port...
Tom Clancy's Rain...


DS upcoming to end of the year

10/09  	Clubhouse Games
Hannah Montana
10/10 	Avatar: The Last Airbe...
Crash Boom Bang!
10/11 	Scooby Doo! Who'...
10/12 	Disney's American...
10/16 	Nintendogs: Dalmatian ...
10/17 	Contact
Garfield: Tale of Two ...
Justice League Heroes
Strawberry Shortcake: ...
The Legend of Spyro: A...
Uno / Skip-Bo / Uno Fr...
10/18 	SpongeBob SquarePants:...
10/23 	Magical Starsign
10/24 	Flushed Away
Lionel Trains On Track
Nacho Libre
Nicktoons: Battle for ...
Scurge: Hive
Star Trek: Tactical As...
Tony Hawk's Downh...
Touch Detective
10/25 	Konductra
10/30 	Children of Mana
Pokemon Ranger: The Ro...
10/31 	Need for Speed Carbon:...
Over the Hedge: Hammy ...
The Sims 2: Pets
Tom and Jerry Tales
Tomb Raider: Legend
11/01 	Kim Possible 5
Spider-Man: Origins
11/02 	That's So Raven: ...
11/06 	Elite Beat Agents
11/07 	Bionicle Heroes
Bomberman Land Touch!
March of the Penguins
Micro Machines V4
11/09 	Disney's Chicken ...
11/13 	Yoshi's Island DS
11/14 	Cartoon Network Racing
Catz
Charlotte's Web
Digimon World DS
Dogz
Eragon
Final Fantasy III
Gunpey DS
Hamsterz Life
Happy Feet
Horsez
Spider-Man: Battle for...
Tamagotchi Connection:...
The Settlers
11/16 	Asphalt: Urban GT 2
11/20 	Superman Returns: The ...
11/21 	Totally Spies! 2: Unde...
Winx Club: The Quest f...
11/23 	Inuyasha: Feudal Combat
11/28 	Shrek Smash and Crash
12/01 	Final Fantasy Crystal ...
Monster Bomber
Puzzle de Harvest Moon
Xiaolin Showdown
12/04 	Kirby Squeak Squad
12/05 	Castlevania: Portrait ...
Hardcore Pool
12/15 	Fullmetal Alchemist: D...

Make your own opinon on that. Whatever opinon you have the PSP clearly isnt dead at all, not even close. Imo the lineup is superior, features less gba style shovelware than the DS. If posting huge rants about competing companies makes you feel better about your own purchase though, go ahead.


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## Athlon-pv (Oct 7, 2006)

There is still software for the PSP no one will dispute that but hardware sales are lacking in Japan.

You know competition you want to atleast to be able to keep up with the DS. There will always be software for it  either way ..


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