# How Japanese manga can land international travelers in jail



## Mantis41 (Oct 15, 2011)

- CNNGO By Roland Kelts said:
			
		

> We’ve seen a recent spike in manga cases, but this [Canada] case is the most egregious -- someone who was not only stopped, searched and harassed, but instead of simply having material seized, he was actually prosecuted for importation of what is alleged to be child pornography for manga images that were stored on his computer.”
> 
> 
> Although the images on some manga might seem a little provocative, they're most definitely run-of-the-mill in Japan.
> The Canadian case embodies a perfect storm of misreadings: Western officials who don’t understand Japanese aesthetics are arresting a Western fan of Japanese art via a medium, digital storage, that is even further divorced from culture and context.


 Read full story here


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## kotaro_14 (Oct 15, 2011)

Wow... Like Australias ban on loli anime/manga. Western civilizations just don't get it. Loli is not child porn.


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## Hyro-Sama (Oct 15, 2011)

I like living here. And sometimes Canada can really do some stupid ass things.


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## s4mid4re (Oct 15, 2011)

I saw a very similar article on Kotaku (the page got deleted for some reason, but here's the link) quite a while back, around June. From what I remember, this guy went on a trip from the US to Canada with his lappy, in which he had some loli manga in it. Apparently, the Canadian authority went through his lappy and found it. He was then arrested by the Canadian authority and jailed for a minimum of 1 year.

So basically, it's not something new, but it's been like this since (at least) June or even before then.

Poor Canadians and international travelers -_-


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## LegendarySkitch (Oct 15, 2011)

He had loli porn, throw him in jail if it was up to me.


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## Aurora Wright (Oct 15, 2011)

LegendarySkitch said:


> He had loli porn, throw him in jail if it was up to me.


You realize that they're just drawings, right? No one was harmed.


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## geminisama (Oct 15, 2011)

I've been rooting for anti-lolicon legistaltion and legal action for a long time now. People like to argue it's not CP because "it's just pictures/cartoons", always purposely ignoring how big of a following hentai has, and it's use as a mastabatory aid. Loli is a grey area CP, and I'm glad nations are finally taking action towards this pedophilic, "art."


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## Deleted User (Oct 15, 2011)

kotaro_14 said:


> Wow... Like Australias ban on loli anime/manga. Western civilizations just don't get it. Loli is not child porn.


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## chyyran (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm speechless, just..

All I can say is Canadian customs suck, source, my own experience


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## titen96 (Oct 15, 2011)

You know instead of arresting a person for having drawings why not just look for real child molestors?


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## geminisama (Oct 15, 2011)

titen96 said:


> You know instead of arresting a person for having drawings why not just look for real child molestors?


They arrest people with CP pictures, regardless of if the person ever touched a kid in their life. I guess we should just let them be on their way?


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## Aurora Wright (Oct 15, 2011)

geminisama said:


> titen96 said:
> 
> 
> > You know instead of arresting a person for having drawings why not just look for real child molestors?
> ...


Our freedom ends where *another person*'s freedom begins. If they find such drawings pleasurable, let them be, as long as they don't infringe another person's rights.


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## Issac (Oct 15, 2011)

Happened in Sweden too... Who was the guy? The most "famous" manga translator in Sweden... for having manga where "The breasts are too small for that person to be older than 18"... So it wasn't even implied that the drawing in his manga book was underage. AND this is what caused Dead or Alive Dimensions to be banned as well in Sweden: A guy ona forum who thought this manga incident was insane, so he reported this game just for "the lulz", and it went through!


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 15, 2011)

geminisama said:


> They arrest people with CP pictures









Sorry, the joke had to be made.

Really though, I don't really care. I'd never see myself buying manga and if I did, I would never buy it with such tasteless material, even if it isn't for the purpose of "fapping" or "getting aroused". It's just a stupid thing to include in any form of media, I don't see why manga seems to get a pass for it while if the same material was present in a TV show or film, I'm sure it'd be bashed to hell and back.


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## KingVamp (Oct 15, 2011)

geminisama said:


> I've been rooting for anti-violence  legistaltion and legal action for a long time now. People like to argue it's not violence because "it's just for fun", always purposely ignoring how big of a following guns has, and it's use as a killer aid.Game is a grey area to violence, and I'm glad nations are finally taking action towards this stimulation,  "entertainment."


 
How does this effect anyone or your personal rights?
Even then, wasn't it officially declare a porno?


Kind of remind me of people calling doa child porn.

Let's just start banning games that has this style.


Spoiler


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## Valwin (Oct 15, 2011)

o but lolis are so cute they cant harm anyone :3


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## geminisama (Oct 15, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> geminisama said:
> 
> 
> > I've been rooting for anti-violence  legistaltion and legal action for a long time now. People like to argue it's not violence because "it's just for fun", always purposely ignoring how big of a following guns has, and it's use as a killer aid.Game is a grey area to violence, and I'm glad nations are finally taking action towards this stimulation,  "entertainment."
> ...


Your edit made my post even better, bravo.


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## KingVamp (Oct 15, 2011)

geminisama said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > geminisama said:
> ...


I'm say that a flaw in your statement, do you really expect every gamer as killers or even if games
are even making these killers?

It seem it even getting to a point(base on someone else post) when you say a character 18+, they are saying "no, that to small for that age".

Let's just put a ban to thinking and imagination.


I'm starting to think maybe he was being sarcastic.


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## YayMii (Oct 15, 2011)

This guy didn't get arrested for loli, he got arrested for ecchi (implied by the "a little provocative" part).  That's the difference between having illustrated child porn and having illustrations of girls in bikinis.


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## s4mid4re (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> I've been rooting for anti-lolicon legistaltion and legal action for a long time now. People like to argue it's not CP because "it's just pictures/cartoons", always purposely ignoring how big of a following hentai has, and it's use as a mastabatory aid. Loli is a grey area CP, and I'm glad nations are finally taking action towards this pedophilic, "art."


Opinion: America/Canada/wherever else is arresting people for having CP/loli hentai, in order to drop the r*pe rate or anything else that would cause harm to somebody else. Don't have a source, but I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track.

Fact: Japan has less r*pe rate than US, despite having more of the CP/loli hentai material and less restrictions on them. source

My Point: The places that arrest people for having CP/loli hentai material is doing it for pointless reasons because the availability of CP/loli hentai material doesn't correlate to the r*pe rate or anything else that would cause harm to somebody else.

I'm just curious as to why you or anybody else would be against the "art" when there's no harm being done.



Spoiler



I am very sorry If anybody is offended because of the censored word.


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## geminisama (Oct 16, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> geminisama said:
> 
> 
> > KingVamp said:
> ...


Well no. Your example of violent gamers is very circumstantial, while a person who gets off on depictions of young girls in sexualized acts IS a pedophile. No matter the excuses they make, they are still sexually aroused by young girls, be it via ink or flesh.I won't even touch on the other silly comments you made, no offense.


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## Valwin (Oct 16, 2011)

the are jsut pictures   of cute lolis


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## hunter291 (Oct 16, 2011)

I puked. How can anyone find this sweet or cute ?


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## geminisama (Oct 16, 2011)

hunter291 said:


> I puked. How can anyone find this sweet or cute ?


The point I've been trying to make. In denial pedophiles.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > geminisama said:
> ...


So what? So someone who might get aroused by an underage girl in his mind is a pedophile too? You sir make absolutely no sense.

Just because this person can get aroused by a younger girl in his head, he *knows* that it is wrong to commit an act on that thought. How is a drawing which doesn't even resemble a real person in any way different from that? People who don't see that boundary will not be wasting their time on silly manga's but instead go out and statisfy their hunger and *THAT* should be wrong.

So instead of going after people who just have fantasies they will never commit to other than being thoughts, go after the real rapists that haunt the streets and don't even know this shit.

Stop being ignorant.


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## KingVamp (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> Well no. Your example of violent gamers is very circumstantial, while a person who gets off on depictions of young girls in sexualized acts IS a pedophile. No matter the excuses they make, they are still sexually aroused by young girls, be it via ink or flesh.I won't even touch on the other silly comments you made, no offense.


I can't say it is circumstantial? When you say, "who gets off", what proof is there he was getting off?

Just because someone draws a little kid or (imagination here) small demon teenagers/adutls doesn't mean they are getting off on it.

When I think loli, I didn't think child porn. I think child or child-like art. You know since in cartoons/anime or games someone/thing that look
like a child in clothes or size doesn't necessarily have to be a child.


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## Valwin (Oct 16, 2011)

hunter291 said:


> I puked. How can anyone find this sweet or cute ?



you puke ? why you hate anime ?


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## geminisama (Oct 16, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> geminisama said:
> 
> 
> > KingVamp said:
> ...


I make a lot of sense. If you have a problem with it, take it up with those who coined the term and definition. And bringing up that the person may KNOW it's wrong, and not act on it is irrelevant. He is still a pedophile. He may not be a child molester, but no ones made that argument yet, as they're not one in the same.


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## Magmorph (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> titen96 said:
> 
> 
> > You know instead of arresting a person for having drawings why not just look for real child molestors?
> ...


There is a victim in that case. Where is the victim in this one?


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## DrOctapu (Oct 16, 2011)

Okay, I'm not exactly in favor of lolicon or anything, but I say let them do what they want. No one's being harmed, and it's just what they're into. I can think of no reason other than personal disgust to be against it, and personal disgust is not a legitimate argument for outlawing something. If it were, we'd be burning gays, atheists, the Tea Party, and the rest of the people much of society doesn't like.
I really hate to lump gay people and atheists into the same group as the Tea Party, though.


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## Valwin (Oct 16, 2011)

i play GTA does that mean i want to steal and kill people ?


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> I make a lot of sense. If you have a problem with it, take it up with those who coined the term and definition. And bringing up that the person may KNOW it's wrong, and not act on it is irrelevant. He is still a pedophile. He may not be a child molester, but no ones made that argument yet, as they're not one in the same.


I think I just got hit by the stupidity truck..


Seriously, when you try to take a stance on a subject or to discus it, at least give valid arguments instead of repeating the same statements over and over again which actually don't make any sense. 


So according to what you are repeating over and over, someone who even thinks about under-aged girls even briefly, or looks at something which can resemble a fictional/fake under-aged girl is considered a pedophile and thus should be arrested and locked up? Do you have any idea how retarded that is?

Also, I agree with DrOctapu on this. Even though this may be found inappropriate by some people, it isn't hurting anyone in any case and isn't a reason to lock someone up. Otherwise we might as well lock every one up because everyone does something another person may not like, be it smoking, drinking, a fat person or a skinny one and so on. 

Let them do what they want as long as they aren't bothering anyone with it then it should be fine.


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## AceWarhead (Oct 16, 2011)

Valwin said:


> i play GTA does that mean i want to steal and kill people ?


Yes. You must be locked up immediately.


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## KingVamp (Oct 16, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the word loli been added a perverted view due time?

Also doesn't someone has to act on things to be called a pedophile?

If a person gets off on ink,but doesn't gets off on something in real life. Does that make that person a pedophile?


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## KazoWAR (Oct 16, 2011)

This is just retarded.Everyone that went to that page is going to get arrested in Canada.


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## s4mid4re (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> I make a lot of sense. If you have a problem with it, take it up with those who coined the term and definition. And bringing up that the person may KNOW it's wrong, and not act on it is irrelevant. *He is still a pedophile. He may not be a child molester, but no ones made that argument yet*, as they're not one in the same.


I don't get your point or argument. You have just stated that a pedophile isn't always a child molester. That is absolutely true; pedophiles aren't causing harm.
_Then what exactly are you against about pedophiles_? As it's been repeated over and over and over and over in this thread, _they aren't causing harm_. They shouldn't be behind bars when they aren't causing harm, heck I don't even think most of us them want to publicize our their interests and opinions on little girls. 

You aren't really making much sense to me.


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## RiderLeangle (Oct 16, 2011)

OK, this just screams idiotic... They're just drawings, not like you're manipulating some little girl or raping her...  Hell... I'm sure people can be into loli and have no interest in real little girls... Why do people think if someone has interest in loli (sexual or not) makes them the same as someone who tries to lure little kids back to their windowless van?

Hell... I'm not even into loli and can see how damn retarded this is...


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## DJ91990 (Oct 16, 2011)

Now this is just absurd! So because I like manga!? That makes me a rapist in Canada!? WHAT...THE...#$%@!

The world has lost its dang mind to overreact like that! This just shows you how crazy the world is today!
I can't believe that just because somebody likes manga and that manga is a bit low-brow with plenty of sexual inendos, that it was considered as child p0rn and that the wrongly accused is now thrown in jail with a child molestation mark that will haunt him for the rest of their life.

WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL$#&^!!


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## Valwin (Oct 16, 2011)

i play pokemon OMG now i must somehow put my dog inside a ball cuz after all i must catch them all..... in REAL LIFE TOOO

this is dumb  cmon i saw the Hentai [censored] [censored] [censored] ect and in it the guy rapes like 10 girls but funny thing is i dint get the urge to [censored] anyone in REAL LIFE  i wonder why


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## kupo3000 (Oct 16, 2011)

And this is the reason to why I prefer to download scanlations.


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## hunter291 (Oct 16, 2011)

The things were stored on his computer.


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## DinohScene (Oct 16, 2011)

Valwin said:


> i play GTA does that mean i want to steal and kill people ?



Same here.


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## titen96 (Oct 16, 2011)

so should wikipedia be taken down for not removing the first picture here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

the thing is thought the images where not and will not be released so really for all we know it could be some _really_ manga


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## Oveneise (Oct 16, 2011)

Wow... that's ridiculous. I don't care for loli, but its not even a real picture of a child.

EDIT: Actually, Doki Doki Majo Shinpan was pretty cool.


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## Nathan Drake (Oct 16, 2011)

After searching lolicon with safe search off on the image search, I fully support the decision made.

Whether there is a victim in this or not is irrelevent. CP is considered not okay because of the fact that it depicts a child in some inappropriate way, not just because there is a victim. I mean, shit, half those pictures for lolicon were of obviously pre-pubescent animated girls. Animated or not, it shouldn't be okay to store such images for what is likely just a masturbatory aid if you are making a collection out of it all. The Japanese have a different culture. Regardless of what is okay there, that doesn't mean it is auto-okay elsewhere. If your basing your sense of right and wrong around what manga you like, you need one hell of a reality check, ASAP.


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## KingVamp (Oct 16, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:


> *After searching lolicon with safe search off on the image search,* I fully support the decision made.
> 
> Whether there is a victim in this or not is irrelevent. CP is considered not okay because of the fact that it depicts a child in some inappropriate way, not just because there is a victim. I mean, shit, half those pictures for lolicon were of obviously pre-pubescent animated girls. Animated or not, it shouldn't be okay to store such images for what is likely just a masturbatory aid if you are making a collection out of it all. The Japanese have a different culture. Regardless of what is okay there, that doesn't mean it is auto-okay elsewhere. If your basing your sense of right and wrong around what manga you like, you need one hell of a reality check, ASAP.



I'm sure that not a good reason to go off of.

I'm pretty anything with safe search off is going to show off crazy things.

With that reasoning, everyone should be arrested.


Do you not know rule 34? /joke


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## Nathan Drake (Oct 16, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > *After searching lolicon with safe search off on the image search,* I fully support the decision made.
> ...



If you can't even search the term with safe search off and still find SFW images, then it is fairly obvious what the bulk of people that partake in that specific form of "art" consider its primary use.


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

* Here's the Canadian law about images of child pornography, got it from wikipedia but it looks legit*

Prohibition covers the visual representations of sexual activity by persons (real or imaginary) under the age of 18 years and the depiction of their sexual organ/anal region for a sexual purpose, unless an artistic (see: artistic merit), educational, scientific, or medical justification can be provided and the court accepts it.

So one could say it's artistic, but I doubt any court would find that it artistic [IMO]. To put this in perspective, the Canadian border guards have been trying to put a stop to sex tourism in the past couple of years so anything that looks like child pornography [fake or real]. So in this case the border guards where right to arrest this man *IF* the images where graphic which I believe they where as  it would take something pretty dirty to get arrested.

And this isn't against Japanese culture as he could have brought the dirtiest and most graphic manga shit he could find and still be allowed as long as the chicks are under 18. Canada is also against part of the islamic culture, sharia law and its honor killings, in which the husband can kill his wife or daughter for almost any reason. This is murder so they go to jail for murder but because of that some could say Canada is against Islamic culture, which its not. Any culture can survive in Canada as long as it isn't breaking any Canadian laws, there fore Canada isn't against Japanese culture [CNN spins everything to a negative so stay away from their fucking bullshit].

hope that made sense.

discuss


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## Midna (Oct 16, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:


> After searching lolicon with safe search off on the image search, I fully support the decision made.
> 
> Whether there is a victim in this or not is irrelevent. CP is considered not okay because of the fact that it depicts a child in some inappropriate way, not just because there is a victim.


>2011

>Believing you can have a crime without a victim

What the fuck is wrong with you?



It's not irrelevant. CP is considered not okay because it depicts the abuse of a real life child who will be living with the abuse every moment of his life as his most horrible moments are distributed over and over again across the internet.



What then? Is it a crime because you find it gross or offensive? If so, surely I should be arrested for having pictures of a corpse on my computer.



You are the one who needs a reality check here.


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## kupo3000 (Oct 16, 2011)

Note to self: Never visit Canada while ridiculous anti-loli laws are in place thanks to people who can't tell the difference between real and fiction AKA retarded [email protected]

Seriously I can already imagine a prison scenario that goes like this:
Random prisoner: What you in for?
Random Loli-fan prisoner: Collecting loli manga...
Randon prisoner: Whats that?
Random Loli-fan prisoner: Unrealistic Japanese p0rn comics with cute little girls.
Random prisoner: Hey everyone! We got another one, let's get'im!


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

Midna said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > After searching lolicon with safe search off on the image search, I fully support the decision made.
> ...



If you read my above post then you would know it is illegal to have a image of CP even if it is imaginary



kupo3000 said:


> Note to self: Never visit Canada while ridiculous anti-loli laws are in place thanks to people who can't tell the difference between real and fiction AKA retarded [email protected]
> 
> Seriously I can already imagine a prison scenario that goes like this:
> Random prisoner: What you in for?
> ...



You must not know anything of Canadian prison, minimum jail time is 14 days which he is likely to get [actually less because he would have served some jail time already waiting for his trial so more like 12 days], and trust me all the guy is going to get is the minimum as that's the norm to any case in Canada.


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## KingVamp (Oct 16, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:


> If you can't even search the term with safe search off and still find SFW images, then it is fairly obvious what the bulk of people that partake in that specific form of "art" consider its primary use.


So you didn't see any SFW images when you turn it off? Even then it still poor reasoning, you chose to turn it off, no one force you to,
it is there for a reason.

Even if it true that most use it for CP (which is really no proof), should the minority suffer from not allowing to use that style of art?


kupo3000 said:


> Note to self: Never visit Canada while ridiculous anti-loli laws are in place thanks to people who can't tell the difference between real and fiction AKA retarded [email protected]
> 
> Seriously I can already imagine a prison scenario that goes like this:
> Random Prisoner: What you in for?
> ...


Isn't you pic consider loli?
Child-like drawing?



sputnix said:


> If you read my above post then you would know it is illegal to have a image of CP even if it is imaginary


People keep trying to lump loli and cp togetter when it not the same thing.

Loli doesn't seem to be cut down by this law.


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## kupo3000 (Oct 16, 2011)

sputnix said:


> You must not know anything of Canadian prison, minimum jail time is 14 days which he is likely to get [actually less because he would have served some jail time already waiting for his trial so more like 12 days], and trust me all the guy is going to get is the minimum as that's the norm to any case in Canada.



When it comes to unrealistic drawings involving imaginary girls, no one should go to jail at ALL.
The main issue is after getting out of jail the social stigma is probably going to stick for a while.
That's after your face was plastered everywhere on the news like if you were some kind of monster.


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

KingVamp said:


> sputnix said:
> 
> 
> > If you read my above post then you would know it is illegal to have a image of CP even if it is imaginary
> ...




the thing is though we don't know the images on the harddrive, I'm assuming it was some nasty stuff as he as the bull shit article stated he got arrested. I'm not saying loli is bad as you said kupo3000 image is loli and is perfectly fine, but the law in Canada [and the united states for that matter] stipulates that children under 18 depicted in sexual acts is illegal so the guads where doing their jobs they wheren't in my assumptions being ignorant people who arrested the guy on their principals and not because it was against the law.


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## kupo3000 (Oct 16, 2011)

I wonder for which manga he got arrested.
Maybe the latest volume of Lotte no Omocha! or Kodomo no Jikan.


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## Nathan Drake (Oct 16, 2011)

Midna said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > After searching lolicon with safe search off on the image search, I fully support the decision made.
> ...



If you break the law, you committed a crime. Not all laws broken require a victim. Thus, a crime can not be defined by having a victim.

The rest is basically just unrelated drivel minus the CP bit, which obviously one can not argue. The idea is also that people shouldn't be fapping to imagery of nude children. Animated or not, that is not considered okay. I find it really hard to believe that people are defending nude and/or erotic depictions of animated children.


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## KingVamp (Oct 16, 2011)

sputnix said:


> the thing is though we don't know the images on the harddrive, I'm assuming it was some nasty stuff as he as the bull shit article stated he got arrested. I'm not saying loli is bad as you said kupo3000 image is loli and is perfectly fine, but the law in Canada [and the united states for that matter] stipulates that children under 18 depicted in sexual acts is illegal so the guads where doing their jobs they wheren't in my assumptions being ignorant people who arrested the guy on their principals and not because it was against the law.


If it really CP and not loli then I'm fine with that. People still going lump those together.

But I do feel like it doesn't really make sense to say a game/image/movie it going to harm anyone(unless it directly to someone) nor state what kinda person you are.


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

What's weird about this story is that it appeared in June but nothing has really became of it, no name has been released, no major news station has picked it up [well except CNN but there months late and probably got it from a google search, it isn't even the official CNN site anyways] and most sites that posted it where comic sites who take the side of the accused. I think this story is bullshit.


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## TankedThomas (Oct 16, 2011)

This reminds me of the Asian student that came to New Zealand and was arrested for having hentai DVDs. I mean, their argument was that it was things such as [censored] and bestiality, but at the end of the day, if it's not hurting anyone, is it really that big a deal? Also, a lot of people seem to be culturally insensitive because they can't understand how other cultures, especially Japanese in this case, work. Sure, Japan isn't all "dur-hur we love cartoon porn more than anything" - there are definitely those against it. But a lot of these other countries make it into such a big deal for no reason.

Then again, I'm not really surprised. It seems like 9/10 governments these days are run by idiotic apes. It's even worse having a Prime Minister, because whilst they can have their say, there are hundreds of other people jumping in and making up bullshit legislations, so it's hard to ever point the finger at one people. At least if people want to blame American problems on someone, they can just point the finger at one person every time (whether or not it is justified, but I won't get into that, because some Americans always tend to go crazy over politics when I bring it up).

Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Although I've gotta say, people should know better - get a highly-secured archive that is hidden deep in your computer. Then authorities will have a harder time pulling you up about such material because they won't be able to find it, or at least, get into it. If worst comes to worst and they ask you to open the archive, you're only two buttons away from permanently deleting it. Simple accident. Well, three buttons, be exact. But you get the point. It's also recoverable later, but they don't need to know that.


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## s4mid4re (Oct 16, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:


> *snip
> 
> If you break the law, you committed a crime. Not all laws broken require a victim. Thus, a crime can not be defined by having a victim.
> 
> The rest is basically just unrelated drivel minus the CP bit, which obviously one can not argue. The idea is also that people shouldn't be fapping to imagery of nude children. Animated or not, that is not considered okay. I find it really hard to believe that people are defending nude and/or erotic depictions of animated children.


Think about it. Wikipedia's lolicon page has a picture depicting a very vague form of lolicon. The law doesn't clearly state to what extent of lolicon is allowed and not allowed. True, lolicon can mean nudity and all of that, but it can also applies to that image on the wikipedia page. If I save that image to my hard drive and the police finds out that I have it in my HD, I can get arrested. Does that make any sense to you? It doesn't to me.

The argument here is not "there's a law stating that it's illegal, thus it's illegal." The argument here is that this isn't _supposed_ to be categorized illegal because there's no harm going on due to it; if the law says it's illegal, there _has_ to be a victim for this law to be valid. It is certainly true that there isn't a need for a victim for every law, but in this case, it does apply and it is important. All of this law thing and your "people shouldn't be fapping on imagery of nude children", whatsoever are all about _morals_ that have nothing to do with legality or ownership of such material. If somebody likes stuff like this, leave him be, he likes it. It doesn't have anything to do with you. You just think it's a wrong thing. For them, it's not. You just have to deal with it.


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## Apex (Oct 16, 2011)

I can't be the only person who finds it disturbing how many people jump at a chance to defend something that's entire purpose is to emulate child pornography. Whether or not the man should have been arrested for this was decided by people who hold the jurisdiction for a reason, and whether or not you agree with it, is beyond a moot point, considering the judgement was made by people who earned the positions they hold, over the judgement of 14-18 socially retarded shut-ins, who only defend the perverse media because they spend more time in front of a computer screen than in the real world. These fetishes develop the same was as a rapist's train of thought, being shut-off from society.


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## smile72 (Oct 16, 2011)

Avex there's nothing wrong with being a shut in, I'm a socially awkward person who can't stand social interaction. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with shounen or shoujo-ai (don't read it though). I'm not fond of shotacon or lolicon, but should they be legal sure as long as no one is actually getting hurt I don't see the problem. But then again I've never read or seen any shota or lolicon.


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## Midna (Oct 16, 2011)

Nathan Drake said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > Nathan Drake said:
> ...


I can and did argue it. You dismissed it as 'unrelated drivel' (read: cop out)

Your definition of crime is a little too literal here. There are an awful lot of things that are criminal offenses in various countries around the world that nobody in their right mind should consider a 'crime'. I can see you deliberately avoided the substance of that point by playing the definitions game.


I'm not even into lolitas. But other people are welcome to be. Anyone is welcome to get off to small children, trees, furries, people of their own sex, whatever they please. They aren't hurting anyone with the images alone, and should therefore not be prosecuted for them.

_"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."_

I'm not sure how this is "hard to imagine". I think it's hard to imagine for you because you've grown up in a culture where anything even resembling pedophilia is absolutely demonized in every way. You know in Australia they've banned women with small breasts from doing pornography, because they might look like children? It's ridiculous. It seems you've been brainwashed. Having loli manga on your computer is not pedophilia. Pedophilia isn't even child abuse. You're grasping.

_Edit: Heey, 2000th post. 3 medals now. I shouldn't have wasted this arguing with that bugger Nathan Drake._


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

Midna said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > Midna said:
> ...


In my opinion the law for imaginary images of child pornography is in place as it is an easy entry point for possible pedophiles, they start off with it, and for some over time they find it isn't enough and unfortunately may move on to the real thing.

What I would like to know is their any substance to graphic loli manga, in general do most have an actual story or point to it, does it try to prove something [think a time to kill that starts with a [censored] of a 10 year old girl but because of the graphic nature of the scene the audience becomes more attached to the father of the girl and are more likely to agree with his choice to kill the two men accused of doing it] or is it graphic for the sake of being graphic. If it's graphic for the sake of being graphic then it's illegal as their is no artistic merit to make it ok.


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## Midna (Oct 16, 2011)

There's manga and hentai of every sort imaginable. That's a bit of a broad question. It's like asking if action movies have good plots.

Aaand, I think someone hooked on hentai has the opposite problem to potentially moving on to the real thing. Some of these perverts end up abandoning traditional pornography altogether.


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## KingVamp (Oct 16, 2011)

Why do you keep pushing CP to = loli?

I didn't even like loli like that. The first thing that came to mind when it was mention was Etna which has nothing to do with porn.


sputnix said:


> In my opinion the law for imaginary images of child pornography is in place as it is an easy entry point for possible pedophiles, they start off with it, and for some over time they find it isn't enough and unfortunately may move on to the real thing.


Which is kinda the same argument with violent video games. That games with violence would lead you to do violence.
Which I didn't believe. I believe most(if not all) people were violent before they even touch games.

I'll just leave at that 'cause I'm not even trying to defend CP.


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## MelodieOctavia (Oct 16, 2011)

Not defending lolicon, or any kind of depiction of simulated underage pornography, but the issue of lolicon is purely a moral one. Until the time that it is shown that lolicon or other similar media raises the odds for people to commit a sexual offense, I'll say go ahead and do what you want with it. I think you're a sick fuck, and you won't be invited to my Superbowl parties, but I will defend your right to do what you want behind closed doors as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

lolicon or not, if you restrict freedoms because it's morally wrong, or it's the general consensus that it's unacceptable behavior, you start treading a very slippery slope.


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## Thesolcity (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't get it. Does lolicon actually say the girl is underage? Or does it just imply/"look like" it?


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## s4mid4re (Oct 16, 2011)

Thesolcity said:


> I don't get it. Does lolicon actually say the girl is underage? Or does it just imply/"look like" it?


Usually imply, as it looks way too young to be considered an adult. But there are times that it just looks like they are younger than average, despite actually being set as an adult.

Also, the term 'lolicon' is just way too broad. Wikipedia and most sources specifically states as 'young girls in sexual activities' but I also consider just 'cute and little' as loli (meaning there's no sexual interest here).


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## kupo3000 (Oct 16, 2011)

More akin to the art style instead of age.


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## Evo.lve (Oct 16, 2011)

Midna said:


> _"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."_


Voltaire is right.


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## Mantis41 (Oct 16, 2011)

sputnix said:


> In my opinion the law for imaginary images of child pornography is in place as it is an easy entry point for possible pedophiles, they start off with it, and for some over time they find it isn't enough and unfortunately may move on to the real thing.


You could argue this material is giving the pedeophile what he needs not causing it. If you remove all of this material then the person that needs this sort of fix is going to go after kids to get it. This would also explaing the low cases of this sort of crime in JP compared to others as mentioned by @s4mid4re.


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## tomrev (Oct 16, 2011)

This Leonardo's picture is definitely lolicon. He should be banned!


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## YayMii (Oct 16, 2011)

FFS, the article's suggesting that the guy had ecchi, not loli. There's a difference.
That's like keeping pics of people (not neccessarily kids) at a swimming pool and getting arrested for CP. That's not right.

The article says something about some comic book legal group trying to stand up for this guy. Suggestive manga =/= loli.


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## Thesolcity (Oct 16, 2011)

YayMii said:


> FFS, the article's suggesting that the guy had ecchi, not loli. There's a difference.
> That's like keeping pics of people (not neccessarily kids) at a swimming pool and getting arrested for CP. That's not right.
> 
> The article says something about some comic book legal group trying to stand up for this guy. Suggestive manga =/= loli.



You're really going to make me Google ecchi, huh? 

...I'll risk it.


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## YayMii (Oct 16, 2011)

ecchi=suggestive, but not quite hentai. Could simply be an anime/manga character in a bikini.


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## mameks (Oct 16, 2011)

I lol'd hard, seriously I did 
I CBA to get into a discussion about the difference between loli and RLCP, but this is kinda stoopid :3
I don't approve of loli, but is it worth arresting someone over?
Pfft, if it was genuinely a mainstream manga then this is all bollocks, but if it was some random doujin then whatever really.
Lolicon's are kinda creepy, and TBH this was more likely to be pettanko 
Which is a hell of a lot less unusual than having pics of cartoon horses, let's be honest.


Spoiler



And no, I don't have anything against the bronies or furries, I'm just saying that it's an unusual orientation, let's be honest.


This made my morning


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## exangel (Oct 16, 2011)

To those that say this type of "art" is distributed more heavily in Japan than anywhere else, where they have some of the lowest violent/sex crime rates known to the world; may I ask if you've actually physically been to Japan and understand the "more relaxed regulation" regarding it?

Am I not mistaken to say that ALL forms of Japanese pornography MUST ALWAYS censor genitals? (to be considered legal in Japan.  I don't care if you own some genuine uncensored stuff to prove a point.)
I was under the impression this was the case, as my first exposure to Japanese culture and products was actually through the online catalog of "J-list".  Through which my father bought me Hello Kitty Toilet Paper as a birthday gift.  They also sold other things but were bound by Japanese law as they exported from within their borders from what I understand.

If I'm right, then, for an artist to depict whatever they want is legal so long as genitals are obscured, this is a different ethical situation on the side of government.

I'm just really reluctant to agree with the correlation of "More Loli Manga = Less Sex Crime" that defenders of the "right to own/distribute it" tend to push.  I sincerely disagree with the idea that the broader availability of this type of graphic image, in whatever highly offensive or cute and cuddly form, actually decreases crime in comparison to other countries.  There are so many other factors to statistical data with crimes that it disturbs me that anyone genuinely believes it's that simple.


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## DrOctapu (Oct 16, 2011)

Apex said:


> These fetishes develop the same was as a rapist's train of thought, being shut-off from society.


While lolicons and pedophiles are insanely creepy, being attracted to someone isn't quite the same thing as, you know, raping them. As long as none of them decide to go out on a [censored] spree or anything, I'm fine with it. Not my thing, but I don't feel like I'm in any position to judge other people and say what they can and can't do. Also, what you're saying here isn't really valid. I hate to lump the more horrifying portion of the furry fandom in with pedophiles, but there's a bit of a gap between drawing anthropomorphic horses screwing and going out and screwing a horse. 
Seriously though, I'd like to see one non-moral reason to ban loli. Is it creepy as hell? Yeah. Is it my thing? Hell no, but I'm not into yaoi either. Doesn't mean we should ban it, it just means I don't like it.


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## Mantis41 (Oct 16, 2011)

DrOctapu said:


> Doesn't mean we should ban it, it just means I don't like it.


Banning it is not the issue. Sure ban it if it doesn't fit your culture. The problem here is they arrested someone on CP grounds for having pictures that did not exploit anyone in real life. If the culture finds it offensive then just confiscate (delete) the pictures and inform the holder that they are not appropriate in this country or state.


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## Kwartel (Oct 16, 2011)

I could rant about this, but I'll keep it short.

Some people are pedophiles. There is nothing wrong with that, because it's just their sexual orientation. They didn't choose to be one. If they molest a kid, then it's bad. When someone rapes a girl of his age it's bad, but that doesn't mean that being straight is wrong. The [censored] is wrong. If pedophiles have the urge to masturbate to certain pictures or videos containing children and they choose for a drawn or animated variant, so there won't be any harm done to any child, they have done the right thing. Saying things like "It will encourage them to molest a real child." is really bullshit, because (voluntary adult) porn or hentai doesn't encourage me to molest someone. It actually keeps many people sane I think. People who feel the need for sexual interaction, but can't get any voluntary sex.

Now for myself: I like loli on a certain level. When they look around 14+, I like it. (I'm 17 here, so that's not pedophile. xP) To put it in images:

This girl in a sexual setting:



Spoiler











NO!!
This girl in a sexual setting:



Spoiler










yes


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## ForteGospel (Oct 16, 2011)

s4mid4re said:


> Nathan Drake said:
> 
> 
> > *snip
> ...


there is a good chance that your explorer downloaded that picture into its cache already, so that picture already exist in your hard drive. and even if you clear your cache the picture can be restored


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## Elrinth (Oct 16, 2011)

geminisama said:


> I've been rooting for anti-lolicon legistaltion and legal action for a long time now. People like to argue it's not CP because "it's just pictures/cartoons", always purposely ignoring how big of a following hentai has, and it's use as a mastabatory aid. Loli is a grey area CP, and I'm glad nations are finally taking action towards this pedophilic, "art."



So you are saying if I draw a picture of a guy molesting a little girl. Then I give this picture to a friend, then my friend should go to jail?

or if someone makes a movie and has a scene in it of a guy molesting a child (not real), then everyone who watches this movie have to go to jail


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## sputnix (Oct 16, 2011)

Elrinth said:


> geminisama said:
> 
> 
> > I've been rooting for anti-lolicon legistaltion and legal action for a long time now. People like to argue it's not CP because "it's just pictures/cartoons", always purposely ignoring how big of a following hentai has, and it's use as a mastabatory aid. Loli is a grey area CP, and I'm glad nations are finally taking action towards this pedophilic, "art."
> ...


what the law stipulates is if the images have any artistic value then their ok, do the images add to the story [if their is any] what is the story, does the story try to prove something. This is really what we should be debating here is if graphic loli in general is graphic for the sake of being graphic or being graphic to prove a point. An example of something graphic that adds something to the overall story is the opening [censored] scene of a 10 year old girl in "A time to kill" because of this scene the audience becomes more attached to the father, so when the father kills the two men with no remorse the audience is more inclined to agree with him than they would without the scene.

So what I want to know is, is general graphic loli or graphic sexual manga with underaged children graphic for the sake of being graphic.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 16, 2011)

Elrinth said:


> So you are saying if I draw a picture of a guy molesting a little girl. Then I give this picture to a friend, then my friend should go to jail?
> 
> or if someone makes a movie and has a scene in it of a guy molesting a child (not real), then everyone who watches this movie have to go to jail



Difference is if your friend paid for the product knowing damn well there was that type of material in there. It's not "loli" manga is drawn and then shoved in someone's pocket before they can go "What the fuck is this shit" and throw it out. People buy it knowing damn well what is being depicted.

As for the film, that's just a shit example since it would never get through the censors. Plus there's a different context. A film would most likely depict the act as disgusting and crude. Not something to be enjoyed, but more like something you'd have to sit through and you'd be rooting for the guy involved to get shot in the head. And hell, it wouldn't surprise me if he was by the end of the movie.


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## Ace (Oct 16, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Elrinth said:
> 
> 
> > So you are saying if I draw a picture of a guy molesting a little girl. Then I give this picture to a friend, then my friend should go to jail?
> ...



With todays film standards, I would definitely not be surprised if something like this passed in Europe (Human Centipede? A Serbian Film? any of those ring a bell?)

@Elrinth: Umeå FTW!


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## notmeanymore (Oct 16, 2011)

This is why I do not download loli.

If I ever do, it'll be TrueCrypted like a boss.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 16, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Difference is if your friend paid for the product knowing damn well there was that type of material in there. It's not "loli" manga is drawn and then shoved in someone's pocket before they can go "What the fuck is this shit" and throw it out. People buy it knowing damn well what is being depicted.
> 
> As for the film, that's just a shit example since it would never get through the censors. Plus there's a different context. A film would most likely depict the act as disgusting and crude. Not something to be enjoyed, but more like something you'd have to sit through and you'd be rooting for the guy involved to get shot in the head. And hell, it wouldn't surprise me if he was by the end of the movie.


Oke, so placing it in a different context makes it suddenly oke to watch? It's still child abuse regardless. 

Just because the context changes to make you find it less disgusting and crude shouldn't make it oke. Either you are fine with it or you aren't.

In any case, I don't get how a drawing relates to being a pedophile or warrants a punishment. It's just stupid if you ask me as the line that you draw is subjective.


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## Skelletonike (Oct 16, 2011)

Hum... The way Canada is doing things is wrong. D=
I mean... I have no problems with mangas or hentais that have loli's on it, actually, just recently have loli's been allowed in hentai games (dunno about the h-mangas), I recall that most games had loli looking characters, but all the chars were stated as being over 18+ in the story, so that just made everything ok at the time. xP
Anyway... Fiction and reality, it's quite a big difference... I can understand how some people might see loli mangas as obscene but even so, people should always know whats real and fiction and differentiate whats right from whats wrong...
A good example for this case would be the GTA games, people play it, on that game you murder people, steal things, smuggle drugs (not sure about this part) and run away from the cops, yet, this game is acceptable (well, by the majority kinda) while it's also moraly incorrect... Hell... Mostly everyone in their right mind knows that a fiction isnt reality... I hate pedos and all those creeps, there was a huge scandall about it a couple years ago in my country (and is still ongoing), however it can't be compared to lolis, specially since in most cases (besides those involving rapes and the like), hentai mangas have a nice and decent story.

(Sorry if my post is somewhat confusing, I'm tired and making a post like this is hard right now xP)


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## Foxi4 (Oct 16, 2011)

kotaro_14 said:


> Wow... Like Australias ban on loli anime/manga. Western civilizations just don't get it. Loli is not child porn.



Sure, because when you draw something, it immediatelly becomes 99% less offensive.

No. You should not be sexually arroused by pictures of children, drawn or not. Not saying that it's a criminal offense at all, no - the man should not be arrested. Just giving you my opinion on what you just said.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> kotaro_14 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow... Like Australias ban on loli anime/manga. Western civilizations just don't get it. Loli is not child porn.
> ...


Because everyone who looks at it becomes instantly aroused ammiright?

There are a lot more motives for said person to look at it, besides even remotely getting aroused.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > kotaro_14 said:
> ...



I'm not going to argue with that logic when 95% of loli art includes at least one up-skirt shot.

Truth to be told, it's obviously not "child pornography" in the "disgusting" sense, but it does depict child-like characters in often sexual poses. It should not be banned, but trying to say that this type of art is totally unrelated to sexuality is IMO perposterous and simply doesn't fly.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> Shuji1987 said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Just because it  can include a drawing from a certain viewpoint doesn't mean a thing. To name a few reasons. one could be in possesion of said manga to support their favorite artist, or that they like the drawing style or simply to study it to help them draw. I'm not saying there aren't people who get aroused by it, but saying that is the purpose of it is a bit farfetched.

Putting labels on people might be an easy solution, but it's really not the way.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm far from putting labels on anyone, I'm just stating an obvious fact. The sun rises in the east, sets in the west, loli readers read loli mangas for the loli's.

Everybody has a prefference of some sort - some people like normal everyday porn, some people like standard hentai, some like furries, some like loli's. I'm only arguing about whether this is a depiction of underage people - it is.

The only bannable instance regarding sexuality should be "whenever someone gets unwillingly hurt in the process", which is not the case with drawn porn. Hence, the popularity of Guro in some circles. Doesn't make it any less gruesome, but some people dig it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> Just because it  can include a drawing from a certain viewpoint doesn't mean a thing. To name a few reasons. one could be in possesion of said manga to support their favorite artist, or that they like the drawing style or simply to study it to help them draw. I'm not saying there aren't people who get aroused by it, but saying that is the purpose of it is a bit farfetched.
> 
> Putting labels on people might be an easy solution, but it's really not the way.



People don't accidentally draw upskirt shots.

And if your favorite artist spends his time making loli manga, then does that not say something about you (not you personally, but "you" as in "anyone")?

And please tell me what purpose including loli material and drawings in your manga could have other than fanservice? Does it further the plot? Does it reveal a key aspect about the character? Does it help expand the atmosphere? I really doubt it.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

It's not a fact because you call it one. You are believing that your opinion is the right one, when I simply give mine and say there is more to it. How can you not acknowledge that?


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> It's not a fact because you call it one. You are believing that your opinion is the right one, when I simply give mine and say there is more to it. How can you not acknowledge that?



What you're basically saying is that something's not a fact just because I believe in it, the fact that I am sure it's true is completely irrelevant.

Now let's say that the earth is actually flat because hey, 99,999% of humanity's never seen it from space, just on photographs which could just as well be forged.


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## Skelletonike (Oct 17, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Shuji1987 said:
> 
> 
> > Just because it  can include a drawing from a certain viewpoint doesn't mean a thing. To name a few reasons. one could be in possesion of said manga to support their favorite artist, or that they like the drawing style or simply to study it to help them draw. I'm not saying there aren't people who get aroused by it, but saying that is the purpose of it is a bit farfetched.
> ...



Well, in some mangas and animes it actually does make a difference, the loli characters that is. Like Zero no Tsukaima and Toradora where the female lead looks like a loli (although they're not lolis just short and flat xP) since their looks, actually has a heavy influence on their attittudes and behaviour.

Edit: Just remembered my sig actually has loli on it, well, doesn't really matter


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

Skelletonike said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Shuji1987 said:
> ...



There's a whole CANYON between looking like a loli and up-skirt shots, or even plain groping.

Also (*Shuji1987)*:


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> Shuji1987 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a fact because you call it one. You are believing that your opinion is the right one, when I simply give mine and say there is more to it. How can you not acknowledge that?
> ...


No, that's not what I'm saying. This is a case of 'l2read' if you ask me. As I said, because you are 'sure' it's true doesn't make it a fact. There is more to it than just arousal. If you don't see that you're just being ignorant and stubborn.

Trying to be smart doesn't make you smart you know.

edit: Also lolling at the fact you post a picture that actually is relevant to you.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

Like I said, I see why someone would like to read a loli manga and all I'm arguing about is whether it shows children in sexually-oriented situations or not, and it does. If someone needs to l2read, it's probably you mate.


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## Skelletonike (Oct 17, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> Skelletonike said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...



Lol, cool pic. xP
And I know, those are the fanservice most fans like (although in some its exagerated), nowadays it's rare the anime without them. >.


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## geminisama (Oct 17, 2011)

It's a little appaling that people are still coming up with any excuse to defend this practice and form of, "art." It kinda makes me ashamed to be associated with this site, if there is such an abundance of pedophile apologists.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

Foxi4 said:


> Like I said, I see why someone would like to read a loli manga and all *I'm arguing about is whether it shows children in sexually-oriented situations or not, and it does*. If someone needs to l2read, it's probably you mate.


Eh, no. If you need a refresh, scroll to the top page  It was about being aroused. 

Funny how you don't even know what you talk about yourself.


Also for your convenience, here is the quote 


Foxi4 said:


> kotaro_14 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow... Like Australias ban on loli anime/manga. Western civilizations just don't get it. Loli is not child porn.
> ...


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

Skelletonike said:


> Lol, cool pic. xP
> And I know, those are the fanservice most fans like (although in some its exagerated), nowadays it's rare the anime without them. >.<



I know, right? I mean, it was acceptable in Love Hina (for the sake of the argument let's call Kaolla and Shinobu "protololi's") and Kodomo no Jikan where that was the entire point that was driving the script further, but nowadays you just get random instances of it and go "WTF just happened?".




Shuji1987 said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said, I see why someone would like to read a loli manga and all *I'm arguing about is whether it shows children in sexually-oriented situations or not, and it does*. If someone needs to l2read, it's probably you mate.
> ...



You can't just pick and choose whatever you want from a quote, either you read the entirety and understand or you don't. The point of depicting a sexual situation IS to be arroused, you should accept that fact for granted rather than nitpick.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

geminisama said:


> It's a little appaling that people are still coming up with any excuse to defend this practice and form of, "art." It kinda makes me ashamed to be associated with this site, if there is such an abundance of pedophile apologists.


lol, you lost the right to discus this subject 4 pages ago. 

And just because I defend this, doesn't make me a pedophile. I don't even read it, I'm just looking at the moral side of this.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> lol, you lost the right to discus this subject 4 pages ago.
> 
> And just because I defend this, doesn't make me a pedophile. I don't even read it, I'm just looking at the moral side of this.



If you're defending the right for people to look at images of underage girls depicted in sexual situations (emphasis on sexual situations), then that makes you some kind of special. Maybe not a pedophile, but certainly no one I would give the time of day to.

EDIT: For the record, I don't care if you read manga about underage girls just being stupid underage girls. I think it's probably the dumbest fucking thing on the planet but hey, different strokes, different folks. I do care if you read manga about underage girls in which the author took the time and effort to craft it so that there's sexual tones and situations in there. In which case I get pretty riled up and thoroughly disgusted.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

There is a difference between "Loli because I'm cute" like Honey in Ouran and "Loli because c'mon, you know you can do me anyways" like in some mangas, and I'm sure the authorities had enough material to be concerned. Not to lock up, but to be concerned.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Shuji1987 said:
> 
> 
> > lol, you lost the right to discus this subject 4 pages ago.
> ...



No, please read through this thread.

My point is, people should not be locked up for fucking CARTOONS that may resemble child porn which in fact it isn't. It's completely fictional, doesn't represent an actual human in any way and doesn't hurt anyone in any way. 

I want to put the focus on the bigger things, that actually hurt people and do have victims, like actual child porn which has to be punished harder. I'm absolutely disgusted by people who molest/assault younger kids because of their sexual needs.

This thread has derailed too much imo.


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## Foxi4 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Shuji1987 said:
> ...



For once I agree with you - you're making a good point.


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## geminisama (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> geminisama said:
> 
> 
> > It's a little appaling that people are still coming up with any excuse to defend this practice and form of, "art." It kinda makes me ashamed to be associated with this site, if there is such an abundance of pedophile apologists.
> ...



Yeah, okay. It's amusing you mention the morality of this discussion, and every chance you get, you're defending pedophiles rights to be disgusting people, ignoring that it's almost universal that pedophilia is HIGHLY immoral.


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## Joe88 (Oct 17, 2011)

I feel like this thread is going to be locked soon...


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## mameks (Oct 17, 2011)

Joe88 said:


> I feel like this thread is going to be locked soon...


Which is a shame, there's some interesting stuff here.


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## Shuji1987 (Oct 17, 2011)

geminisama said:


> Yeah, okay. It's amusing you mention the morality of this discussion, and every chance you get, you're defending pedophiles rights to be disgusting people, ignoring that it's almost universal that pedophilia is HIGHLY immoral.


You are completely missing my point, which can be found a few posts up. Quote here:


Shuji1987 said:


> No, please read through this thread.
> 
> My point is, people should not be locked up for fucking CARTOONS that may resemble child porn which in fact it isn't. It's completely fictional, doesn't represent an actual human in any way and doesn't hurt anyone in any way.
> 
> ...


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## Skelletonike (Oct 17, 2011)

Well, even in prison pedo's are seen badly. xP
I guess even murderers and psychopaths have decency regarding that?

There's just one thing I don't understand about this... Why the hell did they check his computer in the first place? Do they check everyone's computers when they go to Canda or something? *Is confused*


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## mameks (Oct 17, 2011)

Skelletonike said:


> Well, even in prison pedo's are seen badly. xP
> I guess even murderers and psychopaths have decency regarding that?
> 
> There's just one thing I don't understand about this... Why the hell did they check his computer in the first place? Do they check everyone's computers when they go to Canda or something? *Is confused*


Actually, I remember that someone on here moved from the Philippines to Canada and they were warned by some of the resident Canadians on here to wipe any illegal data from their laptop and other hardware


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## geminisama (Oct 17, 2011)

Shuji1987 said:


> geminisama said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, okay. It's amusing you mention the morality of this discussion, and every chance you get, you're defending pedophiles rights to be disgusting people, ignoring that it's almost universal that pedophilia is HIGHLY immoral.
> ...



If someone is sexually aroused by depictions of little kids, be it real photos, ink drawings, or hell, 3D models, they are pedophiles plain and simple. If not locked up, they should at the very minimum have this disorder treated.


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Oct 17, 2011)

There might be "interesting stuff" in the thread, but I get the distinct impression that there won't be too much more said that hasn't been said already.

Thread closed.


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