# Boris cancels Christmas..



## subcon959 (Dec 19, 2020)

It seems most of London is no longer allowed to visit family on Christmas day now :-(

Was this a necessary evil or should Boris stick Tier 4 up his arse?


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## Sneethan (Dec 19, 2020)

Wow.. Thats a big rip for them.


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## Alexander1970 (Dec 19, 2020)

Oh dear,now we can really happy in Austria we have one.....
We are _*only*_ "locked up" from December 26th until 18th January 2021...


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## Sneethan (Dec 19, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> Oh dear,now we can really happy in Austria we have one.....
> We are _*only*_ "locked up" from December 26th until 18th January 2021...



Wow, thats a weird strategy. In australia we have open borders pretty much everywhere and we only have to wear a mask on a bus or in shopping centres. We can also have 50 people inside iirc.

well anyway. I hope everyone still finds a way to celebrate the holidays together.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Wait, you get dates? lucky, we would just hope for an announcement every two weeks.


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## Xzi (Dec 19, 2020)

The fact that there's now a faster-spreading mutation of the virus in the UK is definitely worrisome.  Let's hope the vaccine is still effective against it and stays effective against COVID-19 for years to come.


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## The Catboy (Dec 20, 2020)

As much as this sucks, it is the right call. A family gathering has been found to be one of the worst places to be during this pandemic and Christmas is literally one event when people are most likely handling multiple packages and giving them to each other. Simply put, it's safer to stay home and do a Discord/Zoom/Facetime event than an actual IRL gathering.


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## Seliph (Dec 20, 2020)

I don't know everything about it, but given the situation, I'd say it's likely the best option. That being said it should have never come to this point but Boris is a bastard and the Tories are hacks so it was inevitable.


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## Taleweaver (Dec 20, 2020)

Necessary evil. I won't deny that a faster spreading mutation (though not more deadly) is a large worry, but the numbers are rising all over the place. Netherlands? Locked up. Germany? Lockdown. France? Ditto. Belgium? Sort of (we don't have further restrictions now, but it was already strict... And I'm fairly sure it'll be more restricted soon). 

... And the same is happening in the UK. Sucks, but it's necessary. I've just seen news images of Oxford Street yesterday. Sorry to inform you, but facial marks don't mean you're invincible, especially not in indoor environments where thousands of people pass through...


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## Zede (Dec 20, 2020)

As a Londoner, I'd say necessary evil but too little too late. 

Our fault in a way too - we were never great at following those rules even back when it was Tier 3. I live in Stratford and each weekend I go out, it's hordes of people without masks. Not sure if Tier 4 makes any difference to those selfish people.


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## subcon959 (Dec 21, 2020)

I think it's pretty slimey the way they went about it. Should've been straight with everyone from the start instead of letting everyone think it was going to be normal so they kept shopping as.. Ah.. Right.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 21, 2020)

I might question this "necessary evil" narrative, or at least nobody has tried to balance likely effects of this in terms of transmission rate reduction (never mind likely deaths and serious outcomes) vs economic damage (which is hardly great for human health) vs general affront to personal liberties. Hard numbers, risk factors, experiments conducted on rates according to restrictions... I want that and a run through of the logic involved.
Normally just get "it's good for you, shut up and take your medicine" with the odd sound byte and that rankles -- the governments of the world have proven to be a bunch of clueless cunts* that pay no attention to anybody (sometimes even those padding their pockets) at every available opportunity for decades now. No inclination they are acting in either my** or the collective best interest. Equally if they truly cared about life, health and happiness they would have banned, mandated and otherwise cajoled so many more outcomes and would have done it decades ago. The means by which they would have done them would be subject to debate and run up against various political philosophies but still could have been achieved.

*and having met various ones from lowly MEPs to local councillors to regional MPs to named positions to lords of the realm they might occasionally (and only very occasionally) have some measure of domain expertise but general common sense seems to be ritually removed if it existed at all.

**none of this really bothers me. Most of my family are nice people that I would go help if they called, and I have no "family comes first" mindset whatsoever, but I don't care about visiting them. My economics are as poor as they ever were, but ultimately no worse (retirement and home ownership was never an option anyway), and most I know are not really suffering in any great capacity either.


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## Doran754 (Dec 21, 2020)

I'm glad i don't live in London, just in general to be honest because it's a shithole but I digress. If I did though, I'd still be visiting my family on Christmas. The worlds gone mad. How is it Wuhan is hosting parties but the UK nearly a year later is still facing lockdowns. Something doesn't add up.


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## nani17 (Dec 21, 2020)

Wow that's insane


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## notimp (Dec 21, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> It seems most of London is no longer allowed to visit family on Christmas day now :-(
> 
> Was this a necessary evil or should Boris stick Tier 4 up his arse?


You are burying the lead. 

Looking at infection rate in the UK, and death rate ( https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk ) - actually, probably not necessary. But the UK has a brand new mutation, that you might want to keep at low spread until vaccination (which might help against that one as well) can ramp up:

https://time.com/5923758/new-covid-strain-uk/


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## Alexander1970 (Dec 21, 2020)

notimp said:


> (which *might help against that one as well*) can ramp up:



Not might......for sure....like all Experts and Medics around the World actual say.
So,Mankind,have no Fear,the Mutation can not affect you after the upcoming Vaccination.


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## smf (Dec 21, 2020)

Boris has handled this badly since march, I don't know why anyone expects the clown to get any better.

Populist governments always run into these problems because as soon as you do what the people want, you are very soon going to be doing the wrong thing for everyone.

It serves 52% of the people right. Unfortunately now we have to listen to the idiots complaining that we fought two world wars to bail out europe and now they are closing their borders to us now we have this new strain.

The vaccine is going to take a very long time to roll out, nothing will change until at least 50% of the people have been vaccinated (and maybe more). Which could be a year away. They aren't making a big thing of it yet, because then they'd have to disappoint people and Boris is trying hard not to do that.

Which is a pretty dumb move.


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## TimPV3 (Dec 21, 2020)

shamzie said:


> I'm glad i don't live in London, just in general to be honest because it's a shithole but I digress. If I did though, I'd still be visiting my family on Christmas. The worlds gone mad. How is it Wuhan is hosting parties but the UK nearly a year later is still facing lockdowns. Something doesn't add up.


Chinese government does whatever it wants whether their people like it or not, but to summarize:

 - Wuhan was under a STRICT lockdown for 76 days
 - 14,000 health checkpoints were established at public transport hubs
 - only one member of each household was permitted to leave the home every couple of days to collect necessary supplies
 - 9 million tests in Wuhan within weeks, and a national system of contact tracing
 - PPE is manufactured in China, and people actually wear masks

If these things happened anywhere else, people would be LIVID


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## smf (Dec 21, 2020)

TimPV3 said:


> If these things happened anywhere else, people would be LIVID



For 76 days. We're going to be livid for longer, because the uk government refused to make tough choices in February and March.


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## p1ngpong (Dec 21, 2020)

When Churchill invaded the beaches of Germany and freed France they said he was a dick too. Boris is the leader Britain needs during these hard times to save the planet.


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## Alexander1970 (Dec 21, 2020)

p1ngpong said:


> When Churchill invaded the beaches of Germany and freed France they said he was a dick too. Boris is the leader Britain needs during these hard times to save the planet.



Not for today's wimp society....


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## Robika (Dec 21, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> It seems most of London is no longer allowed to visit family on Christmas day now :-(
> 
> Was this a necessary evil or should Boris stick Tier 4 up his arse?


Small price to pay for your older family members to live another Christmas!


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## Soraiko (Dec 21, 2020)

alexander1970 said:


> Oh dear,now we can really happy in Austria we have one.....
> We are _*only*_ "locked up" from December 26th until 18th January 2021...



same (edit: almost same only that we were locked up since the 16th december


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## subcon959 (Dec 22, 2020)

Robika said:


> Small price to pay for your older family members to live another Christmas!


What if this is their last Christmas? That was actually true last year for one member so from experience it's not something you want to dismiss easily.


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## Robika (Dec 22, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> What if this is their last Christmas? That was actually true last year for one member so from experience it's not something you want to dismiss easily.


What if a dragon and huge white woman appear from a hole in the sky in the middle of Tokyo and we nuke them to save the world but instead the plot of Nier plays out.

Jokes apart. We can do a lot of what ifs.

If it is their last Christmas be glad that they got to live it in peace, and live in peace of mind knowing you or any other visitor didn't infect them, with virus that will make you spend your last days with tubes in you body and alone. I wouldn't want to live knowing that I might have infected anyone and possible caused anyone's death. One Christmas is a small price to pay for the safety of the vulnerable.

Call them have a long videochat. We live in an era of communication. It sucks , I can't see my mum for 2 more weeks. We will videochat with her and my aunt, who is still in Hungary, over telegram. I haven't spent a Christmas with my whole family since 2008.


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## Bladexdsl (Dec 22, 2020)

so much for the vaccine the virus has mutated now into a new strain.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 22, 2020)

Robika said:


> What if a dragon and huge white woman appear from a hole in the sky in the middle of Tokyo and we nuke them to save the world but instead the plot of Nier plays out.
> 
> Jokes apart. We can do a lot of what ifs.
> 
> ...



The question is not necessarily will it do anything, the question is would it be worth the effort.

When assessing risk you consider outcomes (ninjas attacking would basically leave everybody dead) vs likelihood (ninjas are not real) vs cost of mitigation or maybe just lessening (building anti ninja castle is expensive).


Is being shut up going to impact results in a positive enough way to offset costs? That has yet to be justified from where I sit with anything like hard maths or decent estimates, just "shut up we know what is best for you" when. Equally there are plenty of other actions that could have been taken both against this and in general, some of which would probably have had even more positive effect (though costs are debatable).


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## Alexander1970 (Dec 22, 2020)

What would she have said about that ?


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## seany1990 (Dec 22, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> What if this is their last Christmas? That was actually true last year for one member so from experience it's not something you want to dismiss easily.



If your conscience is okay with potentially killing Granny then go for it.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 22, 2020)

seany1990 said:


> If your conscience is okay with potentially killing Granny then go for it.


She might have died in a car crash on the way back to the house as well. People seem content to shoulder that risk. Is this much different?

Seems quite possible to mitigate things as well if you find yourself in a position where you are reasonably sure you are not infectious.


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## Robika (Dec 22, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> She might have died in a car crash on the way back to the house as well. People seem content to shoulder that risk. Is this much different?
> 
> Seems quite possible to mitigate things as well if you find yourself in a position where you are reasonably sure you are not infectious.


Okay, sure!


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## subcon959 (Dec 22, 2020)

There seems to be a "spooky" factor associated with this virus, which I don't quite understand. There is quite a lot of empirical data on infection rates and mortality, not to mention actual tests to see if you are infected or have anti-bodies. What should've happened is mass-availability of testing leading up to the holiday season and then allowing grown ups to decide for themselves based on test results.


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## FAST6191 (Dec 24, 2020)

So word came down that in a few days things will change where I am at.

Quite why it is so scary that we need to take harsh measures (bar my door and shake in fear until it is all over, saving that I need to go to the shop to buy some bread, and not strip off at my front door to chuck my clothes in bleach when I get back, possibly before isolating myself for 10 days, down from 14 a while back as I guess the nature of things changed, from all others in my house) but can happily wait for a few days* to enact, or go shopping later today for "non essential" items (whilst staying away from others but still less than the distance of a cough/sneeze away), then I don't know.

*if it is exponential then that is a simple piece of maths to plot, and if the death/serious outcome rates are expected to remain the same (and presumably be the cause of all these measures needing to be taken) then surely they are just pissing lives away, even before we consider hospital overload (or simple costs of care).

Almost as though they are doing things (as opposed to the usual business of "won't touch that as it is hard and won't get me reelected") to appear tough but actually don't really care or have a clue. Ignorance, malice, self interest... having a hard time picking which one there.


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## subcon959 (Dec 24, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> Ignorance, malice, self interest... having a hard time picking which one there.


I'm not quite at the point where I would conclude malice but I'm pretty sure it's all of the above otherwise.. especially appeasing one's favourite lobbyists.


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