# Nintendo is to blame for poor Wii U sales, says Iwata



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 19, 2013)

> Unlike many executives who might obfuscate the issue with corporate doublespeak or finger-pointing, Satoru Iwata is blunt in his assessment of the company's recent troubles.
> 
> "*We are to blame*," he said. "*We relaxed our [marketing] efforts, so the consumers today still cannot understand what's so good and unique about the Wii U. Because we're always trying to be unique, it takes some energies on our side to [make] people understand the real attractions about whatever we are doing.*"
> 
> ...


 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100810130






secret camera footage of iwata looking for wii u games


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## BORTZ (Jun 19, 2013)

So does Iwata ever find the WiiU games?

on topic: DUH Nintendo, what did you think was going to happen?


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Jun 19, 2013)

Are you telling me someone actually took responsibility for something for once?
What is this universe?


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## Qtis (Jun 19, 2013)

Surprising quotes, but then again, they're from the a Japanese company. As for the reasoning behind the quotes, I pretty much agree. Quite a few people still seem to regard the WiiU as an accessory for the original Wii ("HDMI output and a touch screen controller for the Wii? Cool, but I'm fine with the basic Wii").


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Better to admit one's own faults and learn from them than to live in a dreamland of denial as though nothing was amiss.  Now for the tricky part, improving the marketing behind the console and attract potential buyers. It won't be easy, but the only direction to go now is forward.


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## Walker D (Jun 19, 2013)

They seems to acknowledge the problems well enough actually ..that's a good first step ...now it's more then time to stop the talking and take action Nintendo
Games and marketing now!!


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## Eerpow (Jun 19, 2013)

Exactly what I've been saying. First party titles to sell systems and investments in 3rd party studios like Sony is doing could very well turn things around, they're purposly delaying games and not advertising as there's no need to do much right now. So far they've got Platinum Games, and hopefully once they sell more systems it will be worth funding and helping other devs to start making games. Nintendo should be as bold as they can on that front instead of thinking that they'll come automatically. Will be interesting to see what they do as money won't be a problem.

The rush for an early release didn't turn out as expected (due to lack of 3rd parties willing to take a risk) but they still feel comfortable enough to not do _anything_ about up until the latter half of 2013. They know the Wii U isn't going anywhere during that time and has instead kept pushing the 3DS. Advertising will come when they need it, right now that's not the case as there's not much to advertise.
I believe that if they manage to put out all the games shown at E3 this year to early 2014 like they've promised following that up with a good 2014 lineup they have nothing to worry about. As they mentioned at E3, thanks to the directs they could focus on this years releases at E3 announcing their Q3-Q4 2014 lineup at a later date.

Nintenotdoomed yet


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## Gabbynaruto (Jun 19, 2013)

Wow... We certainly won't be hearing something like this from Sony or Microsoft (especially Microsoft, but Sony still is at fault with Vita). As for what he said, good points, and I really hope they will make up for it. And fast, before the PS4 will be launched. (or else, I'll probably start thinking of joining the Nintendoomed club here on GBATemp).


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## Chary (Jun 19, 2013)

Wait, it's NINTENDO'S fault that their OWN console is failing? Gee, and all this time, I was blaming potatoes.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Chary said:


> Wait, it's NINTENDO'S fault that their OWN console is failing? Gee, and all this time, I was blaming potatoes.


 
Not the potatoes!



Eerpow said:


> Exactly what I've been saying. First party titles to sell systems and investments in 3rd party studios like Sony is doing could very well turn things around, they're purposly delaying games and not advertising as there's no need to do much right now. So far they've got Platinum Games, and hopefully once they sell more systems it will be worth funding and helping other devs to start making games. Nintendo should be as bold as they can on that front instead of thinking that they'll come automatically. Will be interesting to see what they do as money is not the problem.
> 
> The rush for an early release didn't turn out as expected (due to lack of 3rd parties willing to take a risk) but they still feel comfortable enough to not do _anything_ about up until the latter half of 2013. They know the Wii U isn't going anywhere during that time and has instead kept pushing the 3DS. Advertising will come when they need it, right now that's not the case as there's not much to advertise.
> I believe that if they manage to put out all the games shown at E3 this year to early 2014 like they've promised following that up with a good 2014 lineup they have nothing to worry about. As they mentioned at E3, thanks to the directs they could focus on this years releases at E3 announcing their Q3-Q4 2014 lineup at a later date.
> ...


 
Sony would be more likely to admit fault long before Microsoft would, and they have apologized for issues in the past, so it's possible. Now that Nintendo has admitted fault (a step in the right direction), it's time to pick themselves up and dust of their legs and do everything they can to fix it. The sales haven't been the best, no, but at least it wasn't like the Virtual Boy launch


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## Harsky (Jun 19, 2013)

So all the talk about them learning their lessons from the 3DS launch was just nothing? Granted the 3DS managed to get better with time but the Wii U has got almost a year head start before the PS4 and Xbox One launches so I wonder if can still use up the time to their advantage.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Harsky said:


> So all the talk about them learning their lessons from the 3DS launch was just nothing? Granted the 3DS managed to get better with time but the Wii U has got almost a year head start before the PS4 and Xbox One launches so I wonder if can still use up the time to their advantage.


 
Oh, I'm sure they've something up their sleeves

Edit: Whoops, meant to say that I hope Nintendo can get themselves out of this sticky situation.


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## Eerpow (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Oh, I'm sure they've something up their sleeves


You quoted the wrong post.

Nintendo has been saying this for a while now, don't know why it's news...


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Eerpow said:


> You quoted the wrong post.
> 
> Nintendo has been saying this for a while now, don't know why it's news...


 
Whoops  I thought I was quoting Harsky. Fixed (I think)?


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## McHaggis (Jun 19, 2013)

Chary said:


> Wait, it's NINTENDO'S fault that their OWN console is failing? Gee, and all this time, I was blaming potatoes.


 
Well, the price of potatoes has gone up quite significantly here in the UK, so they could be _partly_ to blame 



Gabbynaruto said:


> Wow... We certainly won't be hearing something like this from Sony or Microsoft (especially Microsoft, but Sony still is at fault with Vita). As for what he said, good points, and I really hope they will make up for it. And fast, before the PS4 will be launched. (or else, I'll probably start thinking of joining the Nintendoomed club here on GBATemp).


Sony already accepted responsibility for the Vita's poor sales,  admitting they "have to do better" at promoting it.  Microsoft, well, they extended warranties on XBox 360s to 3 years for RRoD-related faults.


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## Hop2089 (Jun 19, 2013)

The problem with the WiiU

1. Little third party support anywhere, a gamer can't survive on first party games alone. All the 3rd party support is on the 3DS.

2. The first party titles aren't selling anyone on the system, 3D Mario, 3D Zelda yay (sarcasm) which leads to my last problem

3. You can get just as good of an experience if not the exact same experience with a graphics downgrade, a few unimportant features removed, or different artstyle of 1st and 3rd party titles on the 3DS, Smash Bros is on the 3DS don't need a WiiU for that and the characters are rendered using Cel Shading on the 3DS version which I like as well in other words there's no downgrade at all just a change in art style. Another game in which I will get that same experience just scaled down a little is Sonic Lost Worlds. Then there's the fact that the 3DS games deliver a potentially better experience than the WiiU games, I have no interest in 3D Zelda, but I'm going to preorder The Legend of Zelda A Link Between Worlds, since the trailers actually sold me on the game near instantly, the game looks fun as hell.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Hop2089 said:


> The problem with the WiiU
> 
> 1. Little third party support anywhere, a gamer can't survive on first party games alone. All the 3rd party support is on the 3DS.
> 
> ...


 
The other problem (at least from my perspective) is that many third parties have the mentality that their games won't sell on the Wii U prior to porting them over; "oh, they probably won't sell, so let's not bother". The first batch of ports were rushed, glitched and sold poorly, for whatever reason, but unfortunately, companies like EA decided to withhold until the console becomes more profitable. From a business perspective, it makes sense. But then you hear excuses that the Wii U console is too weak or is missing a few features on an API, etc and they opt out of porting a game or two. The ports can be made with negligible/imperceptible losses to the average gamer.  I sincerely hope that more third parties will be attracted to work for the Wii U, as it is a very capable machine hardware wise, so that right there shouldn't be used as an excuse for not porting; the gap between PS4 and this won't be as dramatic as the Wii vs. Xbox 360, esp. if games like Project X are any indication.

It all boils down to one thing = profitability.


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## Dork (Jun 19, 2013)

Hop2089 said:


> The problem with the WiiU
> 
> 1. Little third party support anywhere, a gamer can't survive on first party games alone. All the 3rd party support is on the 3DS.
> 
> ...


 
1. There needs to be first party support for there to be third party support. If the system isn't doing well than 3rd parties have no reason to latch on.

2. Uh, that's not true?

3. I could easily say that Smash Bros is on the Wii U, don't need a 3DS for that, what's your point? And you're just putting your own tastes in good light and speaking for everyone.


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## Hop2089 (Jun 19, 2013)

Also Nintendo isn't the only one doing the same experience with minor scale downs either, not one but two of my most wanted games on the Sony side (Dragon's Crown and Super Heroine Chronicle) have PS3 and Vita version, but it's better or worse depending on what system you like as those games often play better on Vita or even look better on Vita due to controls and Vita's OLED screen and it's added touchscreen options (especially Dragon's Crown since the only major feature of the PS3 version is LAN mode, really just a LAN mode oh come on).  As for Super Heroine Chronicle, it will look better on Vita due to the chibi and cel shaded artstyle, not sure of controls as it was only announced recently, but there's a good chance any possible touch screen features may make it better


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## emigre (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> The other problem (at least from my perspective) is that many third parties have the mentality that their games won't sell on the Wii U prior to porting them over; "oh, they probably won't sell, so let's not bother". The first batch of ports were rushed, glitched and sold poorly, for whatever reason, but unfortunately, companies like EA decided to withhold until the console becomes more profitable. From a business perspective, it makes sense. But then you hear excuses that the Wii U console is too weak or is missing a few features on an API, etc and they opt out of porting a game or two. The ports can be made with negligible/imperceptible losses to the average gamer. I sincerely hope that more third parties will be attracted to work for the Wii U, as it is a very capable machine hardware wise, so that right there shouldn't be used as an excuse for not porting; the gap between PS4 and this won't be as dramatic as the Wii vs. Xbox 360, esp. if games like Project X are any indication.
> 
> It all boils down to one thing = profitability.


 

But third party titles generally don't sell on Nintendo consoles. Look at the Wii, the biggest third party gaem was fucking Just Dance.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

emigre said:


> But third party titles generally don't sell on Nintendo consoles. Look at the Wii, the biggest third party gaem was fucking Just Dance.


 
It will be hard to surpass the third party support they had on the Snes, that's for sure  The Wii's and N64's third party support was paltry at best, there's no refuting that.


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## Hop2089 (Jun 19, 2013)

Dark S. said:


> 1. There needs to be first party support for their to be third party support. If the system isn't doing well than 3rd parties have no reason to latch on.
> 
> 2. Uh, that's not true?
> 
> 3. I could easily say that Smash Bros is on the Wii U, don't need a 3DS for that, what's your point? And your just putting your own tastes in good light and speaking for everyone.


 
The point is that if there's a game on 2 different platforms from the same company, people would be more likely to buy it on the console they already own and not buy the other system, this was meant for those who have one but not both consoles.


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## kristianity77 (Jun 19, 2013)

The problem with the Wii U is that its pretty much garbage.  The situtation wont have been helped either by recent announcements of upcoming consoles due for release in the next 6 months or so.  The Wii U never really had any identity or knew what its audience was.  It was a console that apart from a gimmicky touchscreen, offers nothing really that the Xbox or PS3 didnt offer, and at a much cheaper price point.

I've owned every Nintendo product from the NES days (but not the WII U), but I see them at some point, going down the road of Sega. Take your games mulitplatform and make your millions that way. Let the other companies battle it out for hardware as Nintendo seem reluctant (financially I expect) to keep up on specs.  

Because let's be honest here, if Nintendo out of the box gave it more power under the hood, and we saw games from day 1 that you just couldn't get near to on xbox and PS3, they would of had a much better start, even if it meant say 20% on top of the first RRP and devs wouldn't have been dropping titles left right and centre.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

kristianity77 said:


> The problem with the Wii U is that its pretty much garbage.  The situtation wont have been helped either by recent announcements of upcoming consoles due for release in the next 6 months or so.  The Wii U never really had any identity or knew what its audience was.  It was a console that apart from a gimmicky touchscreen, offers nothing really that the Xbox or PS3 didnt offer, and at a much cheaper price point.
> 
> I've owned every Nintendo product from the NES days (but not the WII U), but I see them at some point, going down the road of Sega. Take your games mulitplatform and make your millions that way. Let the other companies battle it out for hardware as Nintendo seem reluctant (financially I expect) to keep up on specs.
> 
> Because let's be honest here, if Nintendo out of the box gave it more power under the hood, and we saw games from day 1 that you just couldn't get near to on xbox and PS3, they would of had a much better start, even if it meant say 20% on top of the first RRP and devs wouldn't have been dropping titles left right and centre.


 
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "garbage"? Your statement is not clear. Sheer horsepower alone doesn't guarantee good games you know, and going third party would be a bad move due to competition, etc. If people are going to call it garbage, I would love for them to back up said accusations. I'd love to be enlightened by your explanation. Calling a console garbage purely based on its hardware alone is a pretty sophomoric statement and holds no relevancy to game quality.

Backing up to the older generations, I don't seem to recall anyone bashing the PS2 for being the weakest, or the Playstation, do you? What of the 3DS vs the Vita, the DS vs. the PSP? Why hasn't a the most powerful console of any given generation end up being victorious in any of the aforementioned generations?


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Sounds a lot better than "Sony and Microsoft are to blame"

Edit: Lol at kristianity77, you sound like another hater who doesn't know what he's talking about.

"OH NOEZ!!!  Wii U launch titles only look tons better than PS360 launch titles, but that's not enough!"


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## kristianity77 (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Could you elaborate on what you mean by "garbage"? Your statement is not clear. Sheer horsepower alone doesn't guarantee good games you know, and going third party would be a bad move due to competition, etc. If people are going to call it garbage, I would love for them to back up said accusations.


 

Sheer horsepower agreed might not mean better games, but it gets peoples attention when it comes to buying new technology. If at E3, the Xboxone and PS4 were showing off games that looked exactly the same as this generation, would people be interested? Of course not. The excitement (to a degree) comes from being shown something thats not been seen before on current generation. Gamers are a fickle bunch, and the first Wii aside, if people are going to be putting down £250-£300 on something new, they want it to do something that there old technology can't. And a touchscreen controller just isn't enough. In my opinion, of course


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## SirAileron (Jun 19, 2013)

That's certainly the problem when you try to do something different. Sony and Microsoft have this incredible advantage where they aren't doing anything radically different game-wise for their hardware, unless you want to insist that smartglass is that radically different thing (though they don't pack a tablet in with the system for those that don't have tablets).

Because it's simpler to use the tools that already exist than to come up with interesting new ideas, you're not going to have much of anything that identifies the Wii U as something special coming from third-parties until Nintendo makes something. And then you run into the classic problem that the third parties can't compete with Nintendo on their own console, so they'll complain about it, and instead they'll push their games on better-supported systems (that don't have any new concept on them, and have more powerful hardware).

And on another note, it's a failing of Nintendo to have the Wii remotes be still-integral to the Wii U console by some capacity, if for nothing else because they failed to package a remote and nunchuck in with the system. The people who never had Wiis that got the elite Wii U basically missed out on at least 50% of Nintendo Land's content, which is simply idiotic.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

kristianity77 said:


> Sheer horsepower agreed might not mean better games, but it gets peoples attention when it comes to buying new technology. If at E3, the Xboxone and PS4 were showing off games that looked exactly the same as this generation, would people be interested? Of course not. The excitement (to a degree) comes from being shown something thats not been seen before on current generation. Gamers are a fickle bunch, and the first Wii aside, if people are going to be putting down £250-£300 on something new, they want it to do something that there old technology can't. And a touchscreen controller just isn't enough. In my opinion, of course


 
And you're entitled to your opinion, but no one knows what the console is going to be capable of, and I sure as hell hope you don't have the mindset that the graphical gap between the consoles is going to be like it was when it was the Wii vs Xbox 360. Also keep in mind cots; it's not practical to have overpowered hardware for less than $400 as the PS4 has proved. I myself will likely get a PS4 because of my abhorrence towards Microsoft and how they treat customers. Have you seen Project X, it sure as hell looks comparable to later-gen PS3 games at least, and it's still in development. I don't plan on trying to convince people with my arguments or my stance, but I do want to make it known that Nintendo is not doomed and they're not stupid enough to go third party. It will be a very cold day in hell before that happens. The day they go third party is the day Apple starts selling Macbook Pros at half price.

I just wish people would give the Wii U a little more time before swarming over it like bunch of flesh-eating insects and see the console for its potential and not for what it can't do at the present. Hardware is vital, yes, but not everyone buys the console for the hardware. Why didn't more people buy an Xbox as opposed to a PS2 or Gamecube? It's the exact same situation as it was 13 years ago.


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## kristianity77 (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> And you're entitled to your opinion, but no one knows what the console is going to be capable of, and I sure as hell hope you don't have the mindset that the graphical gap between the consoles is going to be like it was when it was the Wii vs Xbox 360. Also keep in mind cots; it's not practical to have overpowered hardware for less than $400 as the PS4 has proved. I myself will likely get a PS4 because of my abhorrence towards Microsoft and how they treat customers. Have you seen Project X, it sure as hell looks comparable to later-gen PS3 games at least, and it's still in development. I don't plan on trying to convince people with my arguments or my stance, but I do want to make it known that Nintendo is not doomed and they're not stupid enough to go third party. It will be a very cold day in hell before that happens. The day they go third party is the day Apple starts selling Macbook Pros at half price.
> 
> I just wish people would give the Wii U a little more time before swarming over it like bunch of flesh-eating insects and see the console for its potential and not for what it can't do.


 


I totally agree.  My point is that currently, nothing looks like a leap forward.  I know that's because its still in its infancy but I think thats the reason people are put off. It currently, doesn't offer anything more that current gen does. And that's putting people off. Why are people going to buy it until it has something on it that makes people want it?

Again, your right, the gap between the next xboxes and playstations V Wii U wont be as big this time around. But if for say the next few years developers make two versions of one game (let's say a version for cross platform for xbox one and PS4, and another scaled down port for perhaps PS3 and Xbox360, which version do you think the Wii U is likely to get if any?)


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

kristianity77 said:


> I totally agree.  My point is that currently, nothing looks like a leap forward.  I know that's because its still in its infancy but I think thats the reason people are put off. It currently, doesn't offer anything more that current gen does. And that's putting people off. Why are people going to buy it until it has something on it that makes people want it?
> 
> Again, your right, the gap between the next xboxes and playstations V Wii U wont be as big this time around. But if for say the next few years developers make two versions of one game (let's say a version for cross platform for xbox one and PS4, and another scaled down port for perhaps PS3 and Xbox360, which version do you think the Wii U is likely to get if any?)


 
All I can say is I'm personally gonna wait it out, sit back and enjoy the ride  My only hope is that Nintendo comes up with new marketing strategies, even I can admit that they're pretty inefficacious.


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## crystal107 (Jun 19, 2013)

Chary said:


> Wait, it's NINTENDO'S fault that their OWN console is failing? Gee, and all this time, I was blaming potatoes.


 

It's always the carbs! they are at fault for everything wrong in this world! ...  

but really, admitting you are having a problem is a good first step, always, taking responsibility for it, is a better step.


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## Taleweaver (Jun 19, 2013)

...and here I was, blaming the financial crisis. Well...I've learned something today. From now on, I'll just rib it in that nintendo had it coming with their retarded name with their lack of third party support with their abysmal game follow-up after launch with their lack of support for hardcore games.

Ey...come to think of it...what is it exactly they're blaming/are going to fix, exactly?


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Taleweaver said:


> ...and here I was, blaming the financial crisis. Well...I've learned something today. From now on, I'll just rib it in that nintendo had it coming with their retarded name with their lack of third party support with their abysmal game follow-up after launch with their lack of support for hardcore games.
> 
> Ey...come to think of it...what is it exactly they're blaming/are going to fix, exactly?


 
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh......not sure actually.


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## Flame (Jun 19, 2013)

one problem is calling it Wii-U, most people think its the same thing as Wii and just a little addon.


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## BORTZ (Jun 19, 2013)

If this trend continues, we might see "Ambassador" Wii Us.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Flame said:


> one problem is calling it Wii-U, most people think its the same thing as Wii and just a little addon.


 
It's all about marketing. I hardly see it being any worse of a name than the Xbox One, but that's just me.

Wii U - us, you, everyone
One - All in one

Both are confusing.



BortzANATOR said:


> If this trend continues, we might see "Ambassador" Wii Us.


 
I wouldn't mind that actually.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 19, 2013)

Flame said:


> one problem is calling it Wii-U, most people think its the same thing as Wii and just a little addon.


Time to call the Wiimbulance.


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## notmeanymore (Jun 19, 2013)

The mistake is not having a game like Wii Sports that is universally attractive and takes advantage of the console's uniqueness. Nintendoland, while it did clearly demonstrate to me the unique possibilities unlocked with a second screen, it did not have the universal appeal. Players didn't go out of their way to try Nintendoland.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

soulx said:


> Time to call the Wiimbulance.


 
First time I ever saw that picture


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## Chaossaturn (Jun 19, 2013)

All they need is 5 new Nintendo IPs and it is problem solved, if I were Nintendo I would put my money in making new IPs and new games to milk.


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> All they need is 5 new Nintendo IPs and it is problem solved, if I were Nintendo I would put my money in making new IPs and new games to milk.


Because E3 showed they aren't doing that.  Oh wait....


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## The Catboy (Jun 19, 2013)

About fucking time Nintendo!
Now start fixing this shit already!


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## Chaossaturn (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Because E3 showed they aren't doing that. Oh wait....


 
When I say new IP, I mean 100% new games not another donkey kong, zelda, wii sports, etc. New IP's with new characters.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 19, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> When I say new IP, I mean 100% new games not another donkey kong, zelda, wii sports, etc. New IP's with new characters.


Well they've done a couple new IPs. The Wonderful 101 (funded and published by Ninty), X and a bunch of lower-scale digital games.


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## tronic307 (Jun 19, 2013)

The Wii sold so well that Nintendo decided to disguise their next console as a Wii. Not only did Nintendo pattern the form factor after the Wii, but they made the console take a backseat to the GamePad in every presentation from E3 2011 onwards. With no close-up shots, and the console shown out of focus most of the time, even some experienced gamers could not readily distinguish the Wii U as a new system. Iwata's honesty is refreshing, and hindsight is 20/20, but the Wii U's vague branding has been a known issue for over two years.


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## Chaossaturn (Jun 19, 2013)

soulx said:


> Well they've done a couple new IPs. The Wonderful 101 (funded and published by Ninty), X and a bunch of lower-scale digital games.


 
Yeah they're good games but there needs to be new strong IPs, where (casual) gamers look at it and go that's nintendo. So new IP that will be as strong as mario, donkey kong, starfox, zelda, etc. All them IPs you listed are great but there will go unnoticed by the casual gamers where as if there made more new strong IPs, there will help the console to do very well or help there future at the very least as it may take time for them to seen as strong IPs.


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## Rock Raiyu (Jun 19, 2013)

Well no shit, whose fault would it be?


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## ForteGospel (Jun 19, 2013)

almost the same thing happened to the 3ds... nintendo started with poor first party support so that third party could get a chance, third parties started to delay and cancel gaems so the 3ds wii u didn't have many games... then nintendo released a bunch of firsts parties and then third parties delayed their gaems even more because "we cant compete against nintendo gaems"... until the storm calmed and the glory of third party support came to life


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## war2thegrave (Jun 19, 2013)

Only in the business world would blaming consumers for not getting excited about half-assed gimmicks be considered "taking responsibility".


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> Only in the business world would blaming consumers for not getting excited about half-assed gimmicks be considered "taking responsibility".


 
It worked for the Kinect, the PS move or Vita, right?


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## Gahars (Jun 19, 2013)

Nintendo taking responsibility for their errors? Great, now I have to rework the chart.



> EA = Cassius
> Ubisoft = Brutus
> Nintendo = Julius Caesar


 
Edit: On a serious note, it's good to see Nintendo acknowledging the many, many mistakes they've made. At the same time, though, talk is cheap. It's one thing to state the flaws and quite another to actually do something about them.

Nintendo's squandered their lead so far. Sony looks like it's going to be providing some incredibly tough competition, and I wouldn't be surprised if even the Xbox One can scrounge together some decent sales off brand name alone. If Nintendo wants a chance to win this uphill battle, they're going to have to get their act together fast.


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## ggyo (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Better to admit one's own faults and learn from them than to live in a dreamland of denial as though nothing was amiss. Now for the tricky part, improving the marketing behind the console and attract potential buyers. It won't be easy, but the only direction to go now is forward.


... But wait... really?

So you won't deny that the WiiU has no games and isn't selling anymore? And that I stack more paper and get more b****es than you too?



Gabbynaruto said:


> Wow... We certainly won't be hearing something like this from Sony or Microsoft (especially Microsoft, but Sony still is at fault with Vita). As for what he said, good points, and I really hope they will make up for it. And fast, before the PS4 will be launched. (or else, I'll probably start thinking of joining the Nintendoomed club here on GBATemp).


Yeah, but what has Microsoft messed with up yet without amendment? RROD? They gave 3-year extended warranties for it. Everything else has been golden. Sony HAS been doing this. They've apologized to investors for the $180+billion losses since 2000, they've addressed poor Vita sales, they compensated consumers when PSN was down... Nintendo is THE most proud of the big three. They never addressed bad third-party support for the Wii until near the end of it's lifecycle, they never apologized for releasing an unfinished product in the Wii controller only to release the Wii Motion+ add-on, pretending everything was okay, or the mistake to not build a second circle pad onto the 3DS... instead releasing another bullky add-on. There are dozens of examples, and their apologies are poor. Saying this doesn't fix anything, and f*** the ambassador games they gave me. Minish Cap and Fire Emblem are the only notable ones, and they're not worth $100.



the_randomizer said:


> It worked for the Kinect, the PS move or Vita, right?


Kinect sold/is selling well, and though the software support isn't all AAA, it's stilling getting software support. Core gamers may have disdain for Kinect, but it would be worse if Microsoft flat-out stopped supporting the device. That's called commitment, Nintendo.


----------



## Mantis41 (Jun 19, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Surprising quotes, but then again, they're from the a Japanese company. As for the reasoning behind the quotes, I pretty much agree. Quite a few people still seem to regard the WiiU as an accessory for the original Wii ("HDMI output and a touch screen controller for the Wii? Cool, but I'm fine with the basic Wii").


 
Christ I wish people would stop saying this!

Iwata has put it right. He wants people to stop, look at the WiiU, and say, "this is brilliant and I want one." At the moment this just isn't happening. Yes! Most casual gaming households where the Wii made most of it's sales do not see a reason to spend £250 but it has nothing to do with confusion over it being a fucking accessory.


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## weavile001 (Jun 19, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yeah they're good games but there needs to be new strong IPs, where (casual) gamers look at it and go that's nintendo. So new IP that will be as strong as mario, donkey kong, starfox, zelda, etc. All them IPs you listed are great but there will go unnoticed by the casual gamers where as if there made more new strong IPs, there will help the console to do very well or help there future at the very least as it may take time for them to seen as strong IPs.


 
Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun are Way Better than Mario..........


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## ggyo (Jun 19, 2013)

weavile001 said:


> Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun are Way Better than Mario..........


I'm waiting for an HD, console Golden Sun with a huge, explorable 3D world. That would be incredible. Even a 3DS addition would be great, but the Dark Dawn was half as good as the GBA titles. Still good, but not great.


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## Bobbybangin (Jun 19, 2013)

Nintendo is facing the classic 'the chicken or the egg' scenario. They need to sell more consoles to get third party support, but would sell consoles better if they already had third party support.


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## chavosaur (Jun 19, 2013)

At least he openly admits to it, which I respect. Lord knows I'm not Wii U's biggest fan at the moment (even though I own one) 
But it's the little things like this that make me hold onto hope that the console will turn around.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

ggyo said:


> ... But wait... really?
> 
> So you won't deny that the WiiU has no games and isn't selling anymore? And that I stack more paper and get more b****es than you too?
> 
> ...


 

Well, you know the old saying "bros before hoes" right?  If anything, I should be the one who gets more. All I'm saying is that Nintendo needs to improve their marketing strategies, but the Wii U is salvageable still. It will require tremendous effort on their part though. Nothing more  The games will come, that people cannot deny. I still believe that the Wii U will be saved and that more support will come, but I won't or can't deny that it's in a pretty sticky situation, on that we can agree. I still enjoy the games (or ports like NFSMW) nonetheless.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 19, 2013)

Bobbybangin said:


> Nintendo is facing the classic 'the chicken or the egg' scenario. They need to sell more consoles to get third party support but would sell consoles better if they already had third party support.



Not necessarily -- all companies entering an established market (and Wii U power consoles is a well established market) face a similar issue. It is usually solved by pouring in a lot of money to advertising, targeted partnerships and other such things.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Not necessarily -- all companies entering an established market (and Wii U power consoles is a well established market) face a similar issue. It is usually solved by pouring in a lot of money to advertising, targeted partnerships and other such things.


 

It's paradoxical nonetheless; companies don't port games due to assumptions of not being profitable, consoles don't sell due to lack of games. Wii U needs more efficacious, assertive advertising.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2013)

So like...what's so unique about the Wii U again? 

But for realz though, I won't be touching the Wii U until a price cut, bigger storage options, and more third party games roll in.


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## pwsincd (Jun 19, 2013)

> Iwata :
> "We are to blame," he said. "We relaxed our [marketing] efforts, so the consumers today still cannot understand what's so good and unique about the Wii U. Because we're always trying to be unique, it takes some energies on our side to [make] people understand the real attractions about whatever we are doing."


 
They admit its their job to promote theWiiU yet admit they didn't. Ok this has potential. Personally I would have liked to have seen a new IP that really show cases the WiiU/gamepad's uniqueness than to have the nintendoland, which is essentially them trying to show us/devs bits of things whilst milking their IPs a little more.




> kristianity77 :
> It was a console that apart from a gimmicky touchscreen, offers nothing really that the Xbox or PS3 didn't offer, and at a much cheaper price point.


 
I never realised I could play mario / zelda / donkey kong / pikmin / etc etc etc etc on the xbox or PS



> emigre
> But third party titles generally don't sell on Nintendo consoles. Look at the Wii, the biggest third party gaem was fucking Just Dance.


 
Horses for courses; my daughter and her mates love those games... My son loves ninty games... my family is ninty's stereotypical demographic.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> So like...what's so unique about the Wii U again?
> 
> But for realz though, I won't be touching the Wii U until a price cut, bigger storage options, and more third party games roll in.


 

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your argument, and here's why:
Games I can agree on, so there's common ground for that and needs room for improvement and more third party support, I can't deny that in the least.  But HDDs? That's not a completely fair argument seeing as they're incredibly affordable and if people can save up for a console, they can sure as hell save up for an HDD; $30-$50 for one is not unreasonable at all. 

History does repeat itself though, as I recall a similar situation happening back in 2006 when the Wii
was released: Wii gets released, people complain that it has no games, no HDD, no DVD playback and not in hi-def

In 2012, it happens once again:
Wii U gets released, people complain that is has no games, no HDD, no Blu ray playback and the hi-def isn't high enough

$35.00 HDD http://www.amazon.com/Protronix-250GB-Silver-External-Portable/dp/B004CLWB64/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1371674519&sr=8-2&keywords=250 gb external hard drive

What's worse, having a fixed amount that is not expandable from some off-brand HDD or getting an HDD from 120 GB to 2 TB from any brand you want?

Some people are too self-entitled and shouldn't buy consoles. If people are going to get so up in arms about how the Wii U is the weakest console, has no HDD so much that they lose sleep and end up getting an cerebral aneurysm....*sigh* This is the internet, people will nit pick about everything that doesn't cater to their every need.


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## air2004 (Jun 19, 2013)

soulx said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100810130
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ninten-doh


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Are people really still getting their self-entitled selves hypertension and myocardial arrhythmia all because Nintendo wanted to reduce production costs by not putting preinstalled HDDs? Games I can agree on, so there's common ground for that, but are people really so poor that they can't honestly afford a 250 GB HDD for $40 on New Egg or Amazon? At least you didn't call the storage an HDD because it's flash or NAND.
> 
> Wii gets released, people complain that it has no games, no HDD, no DVD playback and not in hi-def
> Wii U gets released, people complain that is has no games, no HDD, no Blu ray playback and the hi-def isn't high enough
> ...


 


I can't fucking even. If this is really how Nintentards try to justify the lack of a HDD in the Wii U, then I'm glad I won't be getting one.


----------



## Clydefrosch (Jun 19, 2013)

yeah, Japanese people take more responsibility than people in the west. doesn't change that not understanding what's so unique about wii u really isn't the problem here.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> I can't fucking even. If this is really how Nintentards try to justify the lack of a HDD in the Wii U, then I'm glad I won't be getting one.


 

Was that supposed to be funny?


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Was that supposed to be funny?


I don't get it either.  Nintendo clearly stated their reason for not including a HDD was to cut down on production costs so they could keep the price low.  Most people feel they made the right move, as production costs more than $350.


----------



## Taleweaver (Jun 19, 2013)

Chaossaturn said:


> Yeah they're good games but there needs to be new strong IPs, where (casual) gamers look at it and go that's nintendo. So new IP that will be as strong as mario, donkey kong, starfox, zelda, etc. All them IPs you listed are great but there will go unnoticed by the casual gamers where as if there made more new strong IPs, there will help the console to do very well or help there future at the very least as it may take time for them to seen as strong IPs.


Sorry, but the main (if not the only) reason gamers look at it and go "that's nintendo" is because they recognize the characters. Of course there is more to it (charm, fun, easy-to-learn-hard-to-master, ...), but none of these are unique to nintendo. In the end, it's the customers who decide with their wallets which game gets into a long franchise and which ones will be a single game.


----------



## sentinel5000 (Jun 19, 2013)

This thing was actually pretty simple for them. All they had to do was make a new Mario Galaxy with awesome things, New Mario kart, New Zelda with an epic new adventure and New Smash Bros in the first year, with Mario Galaxy being a launch title. With that Nintendo would had destroyed anything MS or Sony had in store, but like He said, they got lazy. I won't buy a WiiU unless a New Zelda is released, simple as that...


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

sentinel5000 said:


> This thing was actually pretty simple for them. All they had to do was make a new Mario Galaxy with awesome things, New Mario kart, New Zelda with an epic new adventure and New Smash Bros in the first year, with Mario Galaxy being a launch title. With that Nintendo would had destroyed anything MS or Sony had in store, but like He said, they got lazy. I won't buy a WiiU unless a New Zelda is released, simple as that...


 

Who's to say they'll never make another Mario Galaxy down the road?


----------



## sentinel5000 (Jun 19, 2013)

Yeah Doooooooooown the road, the time was at launch not down the road...


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## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

What are you going to store on those 120GB? Family photos? Because 120GB in this day and age just doesn't cut it anymore.

Contemporary games _"weigh"_ anywhere between 25GB and 50GB, that's the today's standard. 500GB is the bare minimum for a contemporary HDD, a TB or two would be entirely welcome.

While the 360 was quite bitchy about hard drives and required Microsoft's branded enclosures_ (or modding)_, the PS3 accepted just about any drive - it was Plug and Play and it is expected to stay this way with the PS4. I can't see how being able to purchase a drive separately and connecting it via an enclosure _(which is an additional expense)_ is a _"solution"_ when the console which is supposed to be a _"Next Generation"_ one, the first of Nintendo's consoles to be capable of running retail games from internal/external storage _doesn't _have an HDD to store them on. This is at best a useful feature - external storage was always used as a last resort on consoles, not as the standard method of storage.

The 8/32GB is a joke - NAND Flash memory is piss poor cheap and the bare prices of the chips in no way justify the massive price gap between the standard and the Premium model. It would be a far more balanced system if it had the NAND Flash _(used for the OS only plus some small partition for the user's smaller files/apps)_ _and_ an HDD. Right now, Nintendo is _expecting_ the End-User to dish out an extra $100-$150 to do things on it other consoles do _out of the box._ Very _basic_ things I might add. Even the original XBox had an HDD and the PS2 got one via an extension bay, and that was two generations ago.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> What are you going to store on those 120GB? Family photos? Because 120GB in this day and age just doesn't cut it anymore.
> 
> Contemporary games _"weigh"_ anywhere between 25GB and 50GB, that's the today's standard. 500GB is the bare minimum, a TB or two is entirely welcome.
> 
> ...


 

It was just an example. Honestly, I don't know why Nintendo didn't implement more NAND since like you said, it's dirt cheap nowadays, but for people to lose sleep over it? I don't seem to recall people doing that for the 4 GB Xbox models, do you? I don't even use my 500 GB HDD for it, and yet, I'm not complaining. If it bothers people so much, they should either save up for one, or not get pissed about it. What good will getting angry about it do, make Nintendo add more NAND?

I sincerely hope people don't assume one can download a full retail game on 32 GB of NAND. I'm sick of these threads that people make, and moreover, they lead to nothing productive, they solve nothing as far as I'm concerned.

People are never satisfied and it's a vain effort to even try. Period.


----------



## emigre (Jun 19, 2013)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> So like...what's so unique about the Wii U again?
> 
> But for realz though, I won't be touching the Wii U until a price cut, bigger storage options, and *more third party games roll in.*


 

I guess you'll never be touching a WiiU.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

emigre said:


> I guess you'll never be touching a WiiU.


 

Maybe when he's married--oh wait, wrong Wii.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> It was just an example. Honestly, I don't know why Nintendo didn't implement more NAND since like you said, it's dirty cheap nowadays, but for people to lose sleep over it? I don't seem to recall people doing that for the 4 GB Xbox models, do you? I don't even use my 500 GB HDD for it, and yet, I'm not complaining. If it bothers people so much, they should either save up for one, or not get pissed about it. What good will getting angry about it do, make Nintendo add more NAND?


 
You do realize that some game updates or DLC may be as big as several GB and this internal storage will shrink very quickly even if you _don't_ install any games on it, right?

As for the 4GB XBox, it's a budget model - the End-User knows this and is expected to expand. It's also sh*t, we're not disputing that. But guess what? At least it has an internal HDD and, as far as I know, an external slot for another one _and_ the capacity to install some content on USB sticks - the WiiU only has the latter feature... and again, that's a last generation system, so Nintendo has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to digital distribution and storage.


----------



## emigre (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> I don't seem to recall people doing that for the 4 GB Xbox models, do you?


 

People bitch about the 4GB 360 model. People bitch about the 12GB PS3 model. The 12GB PS3 model is fucking pathetic.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> You do realize that some game updates or DLC may be as big as several GB and this internal storage will shrink very quickly even if you _don't_ install any games on it, right?
> 
> As for the 4GB XBox, it's a budget model - the End-User knows this and is expected to expand. It's also sh*t, we're not disputing that. But guess what? At least it has an internal HDD and, as far as I know, an external slot for another one _and_ the capacity to install some content on USB sticks - the WiiU only has the latter feature... and again, that's a last generation system, so Nintendo has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to digital distribution and storage.


 

The Wii U updates don't accumulate, they overwrite system files, and I already have an HDD, so there. DLC on the other hand will, but I'm not getting DLC either. Again, people as a whole are implacable. And there are ways of getting the Wii U to install games on SDXC cards and USB flash drives through some trickery.

If it bothers you so much, don't get it. Or grab some balls and save up for HDD.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> The Wii U updates don't accumulate, they overwrite system files, and I already have an HDD, so there. DLC on the other hand will, but I'm not getting DLC either. Again, people as a whole are implacable. And there are ways of getting the Wii U to install games on SDXC cards and USB flash drives through some trickery.


 
Good luck overwriting a BluRay Nintendo Proprietary Format* discs.

_(Yeah, right...  )_


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm kinda suprise Sony and Microsoft is using HDD's vs SSD's.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Good luck overwriting a BluRay disc.


 

Thanks! I've already installed all my games on my SDXC cards, it took quite a while, but I can't complain.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> I'm kinda suprise Sony and Microsoft is using HDD's vs SSD's.


 
I'm kinda surprised you'd expect them to use SSD's when a 500GB SSD costs more than a PS4.

Nintendo _isn't_ using SSD either - they're using NAND Flash modules which are Cheaptendo - last time I checked, a batch of 32GB ones costs approx. $3 a piece.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Contemporary games _"weigh"_ anywhere between 25GB and 50GB, that's the today's standard.


That's including garbage data, which isn't part of downloads/installs.  Most games are nowhere near that big.

But really, if they had upped the price $50 for a decent sized HDD, they would have lost way more money per sale, and nobody would buy one after the PS4 was announced.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> That's including garbage data, which isn't part of downloads/installs. Most games are nowhere near that big.
> 
> But really, if they had upped the price $50 for a decent sized HDD, they would have lost way more money per sale, and nobody would buy one after the PS4 was announced.


 

True, true, but like I said, people are too self-entitled and like to get hypertension all because the Wii U doesn't fit their needs. The day people stop bitching about the Wii U's imperfections and how godlike the PS4 and Xbox One are is the day hell freezes over.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> That's including garbage data, which isn't part of downloads/installs. Most games are nowhere near that big.


This generation? Or the previous one? Not to look too far, _"The Last of Us"_ weighs a humble 33GB, and games are only going to get bigger and bigger this generation.



> But really, if they had upped the price $50 for a decent sized HDD, they would have lost way more money per sale, and nobody would buy one after the PS4 was announced.


 
Nintendo's profit margin is already ridiculous - the console shouldn't cost more than $280 for the 32GB model. If they want to stay afloat, they should slash the price and release proprietary Nintendo-branded external drives because the average Joe simply doesn't know a whole lot about those and would rather buy a branded product that's going to work 100% as intended. Additionally they should prepare a revision of the hardware with a built-in drive to release it somewhere down the line, say, in 2015-2016.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> This generation? Or the previous one? Not to look too far, _"The Last of Us"_ weighs a humble 33GB, and games are only going to get bigger and bigger this generation.


Most games aren't that big.


Foxi4 said:


> Nintendo's profit margin is already ridiculous - the console shouldn't cost more than $280 for the 32GB model. If they want to stay afloat, they should slash the price and release proprietary Nintendo-branded external drives because the average Joe simply doesn't know a whole lot about those and would rather buy a branded product that's going to work 100% as intended. Additionally they should prepare a revision of the hardware with a built-in drive to release it somewhere down the line, say, in 2015-2016.


So what, they are just going to somehow make the Wii U cost less to manufacture?  You should call up Nintendo and tell them how that's done, I'm sure they'd love to hear it.  Hell, I'm sure Microsoft and Sony would love to hear it too!


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I'm kinda surprised you'd expect them to use SSD's when a 500GB SSD costs more than a PS4.
> 
> Nintendo isn't using SSD either - they're using NAND Flash modules which are Cheaptendo - last time I checked, a batch of 32GB ones costs approx. $3 a piece.


I meant SSD in general. Not 500GB. Sounds like something crazy they would pull.
"Cheaptendo" So stupid.


Do you mind if I ask for a source?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> Do you mind if I ask for a source?


 
I don't, in fact I edited the post and added a link to average/low/high prices on NAND Flash when bought in bulk.



JoostinOnline said:


> Most games aren't that big.


Most games _from the last generation_ aren't that big,_ most from the new generation_ will.



> So what, they are just going to somehow make the Wii U cost less to manufacture? You should call up Nintendo and tell them how that's done, I'm sure they'd love to hear it. Hell, I'm sure Microsoft and Sony would love to hear it too!


 
Any interesting tidbits you'd like to share about how high the WiiU manufacturing costs are? Because I bet you a hundred bucks this is another 3DS situation where the profit margin is insane and once the competition releases their systems, Nintendo will take a broadsword to the price tag because that's how they operate. This is not expensive hardware and you won't convince me otherwise.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Any interesting tidbits you'd like to share about how high the WiiU manufacturing costs are? Because I bet you a hundred bucks this is another 3DS situation where the profit margin is insane and once the competition releases their systems, Nintendo will take a broadsword to the price tag because that's how they operate. This is not expensive hardware and you won't convince me otherwise.


I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but a guy named Reggie Fils-Aime said it here: http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_22013695


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## KingVamp (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> I don't, in fact I edited the post and added a link to average/low/high prices on NAND Flash when bought in bulk.


I meant them using NAND Flash vs SSD.


Foxi4 said:


> Nintendo's profit margin is already ridiculous - the console shouldn't cost more than $280 for the 32GB model. If they want to stay afloat, they should slash the price and release proprietary Nintendo-branded external drives because the average Joe simply doesn't know a whole lot about those and would rather buy a branded product that's going to work 100% as intended.



Except they are already selling at a lost so...

Some of those people are going to derp regardless. What are they going to do when the HDD fills up?

"work 100% as intended"It already does.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but a guy named Reggie Fils-Aime said it here: http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_22013695


 


KingVamp said:


> Except they are already selling at a lost so...
> 
> Some of those people are going to derp regardless. What are they going to do when the HDD fills up?
> 
> ...


Perhaps Nintendo should take a little bit more of a loss on the hardware to push more software, don't you think?

The Wii U is profitable after one sold game, correct? Make it profitable after _two_ - that's already $40-$50 slashed and it _will_ push units. Sold units _will_ entice developers to make games for a system _that sells_.

If the WiiU fails to build a userbase, it has already failed againts the similarily-priced PS4 _($350 versus $399, not even counting the basic WiiU model because it's useless)_. The price needs to be slashed whether you like it or not and the R&D costs will be paid off sooner or later, nullifying the loss eventually.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

Why are people fighting the idea that Nintendo went cheap on the memory for the Wii U and that including more memory at a lower overall system price would help to keep them as true competition? The difference between 8GB and 32GB, maybe $1 to a manufacturer buying in bulk, does in no way justify the current $50 price difference between the basic and the deluxe Wii U models. As well, including more memory is the only way they'll be able to manage a successful online store for their digital content on the Wii U. Retail games are big. Acting like 32GB is somehow enough for anybody who intends to buy more than one or two titles digitally is just silly. There are a number of routes Nintendo could go here, but a price cut is not some out there prospect. If Sony can market the PS4 at $400 and not take a loss, Nintendo can damn well cut the price on their less powerful system that is currently being marketed for a measly $50 less.

Edit: And do remember, certain PS3 games have taken up the full 50GB available on a blu-ray disc, and reflected this even with the digital download (see: Uncharted 3). The idea of a 50GB game, or even a game over 32GB, is no longer a very foreign concept.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Well, you know the old saying "bros before hoes" right?  If anything, I should be the one who gets more. All I'm saying is that Nintendo needs to improve their marketing strategies, but the Wii U is salvageable still. It will require tremendous effort on their part though. Nothing more  The games will come, that people cannot deny. I still believe that the Wii U will be saved and that more support will come, but I won't or can't deny that it's in a pretty sticky situation, on that we can agree. I still enjoy the games (or ports like NFSMW) nonetheless.


"Bros before hoes" was invented and perpetuated by bitter dudes who ain't getting anything, just like "sloppy seconds" and all the other cock-blocking phrases used to turn a fellow males off from a woman or women.


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> does in no way justify the current $50 price difference between the basic and the deluxe Wii U models.


You do know that it comes with a game and some other stuff right?


Nathan Drake said:


> Acting like 32GB is somehow enough for anybody who intends to buy more than one or two titles digitally is just silly.


You are forgetting about people who don't buys digital titles.



Nathan Drake said:


> If Sony can market the PS4 at $400 and* not take a loss, *



Source?


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> If Sony can market the PS4 at $400 and not take a loss, Nintendo can damn well cut the price on their less powerful system that is currently being marketed for a measly $50 less.


I don't believe for one second that Sony isn't taking a huge loss on PS4 sales.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> I don't believe for one second that Sony isn't taking a huge loss on PS4 sales.


 
The loss on hardware is compensated by PSPlus, which is why it's mandatory for multiplayer on the PS4.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> The loss on hardware is compensated by PSPlus, which is why it's mandatory for multiplayer on the PS4.


1) That doesn't mean it's not sold at a loss
2) Multiplayer is not mandatory
3) Source that a few dollars a month makes up for hardware loss?


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> You do know that it comes with a game and some other stuff right?


The Wii always came with a game. That didn't seem to affect the price. Moot point.


KingVamp said:


> You are forgetting about people who don't buys digital titles.


That in no way justifies the $350 price tag.


KingVamp said:


> Source?


Sony previously stated they didn't intend to take a huge loss on the PS4 like they did with the PS3 (which I believe was a $600 loss or so per console for awhile). Even if they're taking a loss on the PS4, they still feel comfortable selling it at $400. How does Nintendo justify $350 for less expensive hardware? Taking a loss is how systems sell anymore. You have to be reasonable with how much you can minimize your loss versus how much the system will actually sell for. If Nintendo isn't willing to suffer a little to sell their system, it will not sell. Hell, if they move systems, games will make the difference anyways since they primarily market first party titles. A price cut would be smart. The loss would be nullified.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 19, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> You do know that it comes with a game and some other stuff right?
> 
> You are forgetting about people who don't buys digital titles.
> 
> ...


Microsoft is selling Xbox 360's for $150 at a profit (2006 technology). So does the WiiU (1997 IBM-based CPU and circa 2006-some technology) cost over twice as much to manufacture in comparison?

I don't believe Nintendo. The actual hardware is barely more costly than last generation, and the only new contributing cost factor is the WiiU controller's screen... but it's a TFT, low resolution piece of crap (honestly). No capacitivity, no multitouch, non-corning glass plastic garbage. You can buy iPad Retina display replacement screens for $30-$50.

Unless the WiiU controller somehow costs a good $100+, the WiiU should not cost so much.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (Jun 19, 2013)

Me personally, I don't care about the 32gb of available space. If you're downloading digital releases of games, you've obviously got money to burn.


----------



## Deleted_171835 (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> There are a number of routes Nintendo could go here, but a price cut is not some out there prospect. If Sony can market the PS4 at $400 and not take a loss, Nintendo can damn well cut the price on their less powerful system that is currently being marketed for a measly $50 less.


With those specs at $400, I'm sure Sony is taking a loss with the PS4.

And yes, Nintendo is taking a loss with the Wii U.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> The Wii always came with a game. That didn't seem to affect the price. Moot point.


If there was a version that DIDN'T come with a $50 game, and 4 times the memory, and a stand, and a Deluxe Digital Promotion, and a charging stand, it would probably have been $50 less.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Me personally, I don't care about the 32gb of available space. If you're downloading digital releases of games, you've obviously got money to burn.


How does that make any sense? If you're buying games at all, it's assumed that you have some money to burn since games and game systems are a want, not a need. Whether or not the titles is digital makes absolutely no difference.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> How does that make any sense? If you're buying games at all, it's assumed that you have some money to burn since games and game systems are a want, not a need. Whether or not the titles is digital makes absolutely no difference.


 
Games on disc are pretty much always cheaper than games on digital release. Save yourself money and space on the measly 32gb of available space.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> If there was a version that DIDN'T come with a $50 game, and 4 times the memory, and a stand, and a Deluxe Digital Promotion, and a charging stand, it would probably have been $50 less.


Good god. We've already established that the "4 times the memory" is worth maybe $3, and discounting the normal price of 8GB, maybe $2 more per chip. And assuming manufacturers can buy cheaper in bulk, it's likely even less. The price of the game is also arbitrary. If Wii Sports can still be marketed for $20 new, it can easily be assumed it was technically worth at least twice that at launch. Oh boy, a stand, a hunk of plastic. Totally $50 right there. Deluxe Digital Promotion would be great if it didn't focus around the eshop, that, you know, lots of retail purchases from is made difficult by lower memory. The charging stand, I assume is just a stand that gives the Wii U somewhere to sit while it charges. Even if it has the charging goods in it, it would be maybe worth $20 retail.

There is not a $50 price difference. Honestly, quit acting like it's justifiable. It really isn't.



jacksprat1990 said:


> Games on disc are pretty much always cheaper than games on digital release. Save yourself money and space on the measly 32gb of available space.


After some time, sure. Even then, eshop prices drop to reflect more current new prices much of the time. For example though, I purchased Animal Crossing: New Leaf on the 3DS eshop on launch day. It would have been no cheaper to buy the new copy at that point. Digital was just easier and faster.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

Right, I'm not going to put more water on this mill, it'll keep on turning anyways. I'll just write what I have to say and leave.

Whether Nintendo fans like it or not, Nintendo will have to take action before the PS4 and the XBox One enter the market, or soon after they do and that action will be a price cut. Without it, the Wii U has zero chances of competing with far superior hardware, not with that kind of a price tag.

Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer first and foremost has one job - sell hardware. In this day and age, it is pretty much required to have as much third-party developer support as possible, and you won't get that with low console sales. Each and every game sold for the system is profit for Nintendo, so they have to do whatever in their power to make the console sell. The original plan was to push it with games, except this plan was flawed because no games were ready at the time plus the advertising campaign was botched - even Iwata admits that, but apparently GBATemp users beg to differ.

Here's how the situation looks like today - game development times are greatly extended as games grow bigger and more complex. They require bigger budgets and more manpower than ever before, and to accomodate the need for consistent flow of releases, Nintendo will have to lean towards third-party. Their hardware is greatly inferior to that of the competition so they will have to do what they did best with the Wii - market their system as a fun, low-cost alternative to the other two with unique, exclusive titles _(somewhat forced due to lower specs/harder port development due to differences in architectures and SDK's)_.

That's my two cents and that's a realist's plan for saving the Wii U from becoming the second Gamecube. It's not too late to change strategies - Nintendo knows that and they want to adapt, now we'll see how they choose to play this game.





jacksprat1990 said:


> Games on disc are pretty much always cheaper than games on digital release. Save yourself money and space on the measly 32gb of available space.


Someone's never heard of Steam Sales/PSN Sales/*Insert Service* Sales, I see. 

This is a remnant of Last Generation thinking. Digital Downloads will only get cheaper and cheaper because it's a far less expensive method of distribution - no printing, packaging, disc pressing required, just bandwidth. Logistics are almost down to zero, which _can_ in fact allow publishers to slash the prices.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

You can just feel the self-entitled butt-hurt anger, can't you!? If there was anything that we learned from this thread, is that Nintendo will magically increase the NAND size by complaining about the lack of a HDD. 

Man, these threads are too much excitement for me in one day, I'd best make sure they don't overstimulate my senses.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> *insert needless arguments*
> 
> There is not a $50 price difference. Honestly, quit acting like it's justifiable. It really isn't.


The $50 is big (if you'd read my post, you'd notice I never said it wasn't), but your argument was that the game shouldn't mean a price difference since the Wii had a game.  That doesn't make any sense.

Stop treating every post like it's an fanboy attack.


----------



## jacksprat1990 (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Someone's never heard of Steam Sales/PSN Sales/*Insert Service* Sales, I see.


 
I have but for some reason, I thought we were talking about the WiiU. My bad I guess.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 I'm still waiting on that source.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> I have but for some reason, I thought we were talking about the WiiU. My bad I guess.


 

But Wii U digital downloads =/= Steam, remember?  I thought it was either ad hominem or straw men, but nah, we're good.



JoostinOnline said:


> Foxi4 I'm still waiting on that source.


 
He hasn't the balls to do such a thing. He's just bitter because he doesn't have the money to get a HDD.


----------



## BlackWizzard17 (Jun 19, 2013)

Nintendo should show a commercial on how good there console is and how its a not accessories for the wii. I ask my mom for some money to buy a wii u and she said 'what that thing to play on the wii' 'and i just stared at her like -_-


----------



## narutofan777 (Jun 19, 2013)

tbh the wii u reveal at last year's e3 was underwhelming..and I didn't care about it at all.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> The $50 is big (if you'd read my post, you'd notice I never said it wasn't), but your argument was that the game shouldn't mean a price difference since the Wii had a game. That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Stop treating every post like it's an fanboy attack.


Yes, actually, it does. The value of a game is entirely arbitrary. Nintendo could say Nintendoland is worth $5 if they wanted to. Picking $50 says just about nothing except that they picked a market standard price for the individual game. The idea of Wii Sports helps to solidify this, and your failure to understand that is at best amusing. If Wii Sports was worth $40 or $50 at launch, why did that not seem to affect the Wii price? It may be different generations, but a disc with data is a disc with data, and prices for games haven't really changed since 2006. With that in mind, Nintendoland can not be used as justification at all for the $50 price difference. Even with Super Mario World on the SNES in the past, Nintendo showed that they were perfectly willing to essentially give a game away to help sell a system. Saying that suddenly, this generation, that should actually change the price is just ridiculous and blatant ignorance.

And most of your posts are generally fanboy attacks. You're one of the people around the Wii U material that it sucks trying to justify the Wii U's shortcomings to because you'll defend them beyond the point where it doesn't make sense to do so (such as you have with the Wii U's memory). I didn't just realize that from this thread either. You've been a primary proponent of fanboyish Wii U support on this forum ever since its general popularity started falling more and more with third parties and consumers alike. Being able to recognize and openly acknowledge a system's shortcomings is as important as supporting it.

The bottom line is that the Wii U has issues. It needs these issues worked out if it wants to continue competing. At the very least, it needs a price drop because no matter how much of a loss Sony is selling at, it doesn't change that they're ready and willing to sell at $400 and Nintendo needs to make preparations to combat that decision. Even if the PS4 doesn't come with a game and requires pay for online, that doesn't change that it's a much more powerful console that currently has more support from third parties than the Wii U does. At a $50 difference, you'll have a hard time convincing the average consumer to not go with the system that offers additional features the Wii U currently has no plans to match. If Iwata wants to sell the Wii U, changes have to be made or else it will end up like the Gamecube.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Foxi4 I'm still waiting on that source.


 


> _"(Introducing the PSPlus fee was something) Sony had to agonise over for a very long time. (...) First of all, we wanted to introduce the console at a healthy price-point compared with PS3, (it's) front and centre in our thinking and our planning for years."_
> _~__Fergal Gara, Sony Computer Entertainment UK_


The fee is only in place to make up for the losses on the hardware and in my opinion, it's good value. Not only you get your console at a lower price point, you also get PSPlus games across all three four of Sony's current platforms - what's not to like?

With the subscription in place, losses will be _"made up"_ quicker than with just games and seeing that it's a good deal, people have more reasons than just Multiplayer to subscribe - there's Instant Game Collection and PSN discounts as well as additional PSPlus-only content like avatars.

*EDIT:* Four, actually. I forgot that the PSP gets an occasional PSPlus title as well.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Aah, the irrelevancy of a console having the most power somehow making said console sell like hotcakes. Boy, what's next? I can't wait till I see the upcoming console wars once the other two consoles are released, then it will be a very civilized and well thought discussion where people talk calmly, drink tea and have bouts of light laughter.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Aah, the irrelevancy of a console having the most power somehow making said console sell like hotcakes.


It does make a difference now, where noticeable differences arise between the appearance and function of games such as multi-plats where significant differences in power between consoles is concerned.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Aah, the irrelevancy of a console having the most power somehow making said console sell like hotcakes.


 
It was totally relevant when the SNES was more powerful than the Genesis/Megadrive, totally relevant when the Nintendo 64 was more powerful than the PlayStation, totally relevant when the Gamecube was more powerful than the PlayStation 2, then came the Wii and _"graphics didn't matter"_, then the Wii U turned out to be more powerful than the 360 and the PS3 which caused a solid year of Nintendo fans chanting that they have the beefiest system ever and now that it's in the shadows of the upcoming PlayStation 4 and the XBox One, _"graphics don't matter"_. Again.

I see a pattern here.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> It does make a difference now, where noticeable differences arise between the appearance and function of games such as multi-plats where significant differences in power between consoles is concerned.


 

Yeah, I'm pretty excited for the upcoming Wii U games as well.



Foxi4 said:


> It was totally relevant when the SNES was more powerful than the Genesis/Megadrive, totally relevant when the Nintendo 64 was more powerful than the PlayStation, totally relevant when the Gamecube was more powerful than the PlayStation 2, then came the Wii and _"graphics didn't matter"_, then the Wii U turned out to be more powerful than the 360 and the PS3 which caused a solid year of Nintendo fans chanting that they have the beefiest system ever and now that it's in the shadows of the upcoming PlayStation 4 and the XBox One, graphics don't matter. Again.
> 
> 
> I see a pattern here.


Well at least you don't deny it. And in those console generations of yore, which of the consoles has always sold the most units? Surely, the most powerful consoles have sold the most, right?


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty excited for the upcoming Wii U games as well.


You and the 10 other Wii U owners on this forum, I'm sure!


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> You and the 10 other Wii U owners on this forum, I'm sure!


 

No, no, no you got it all wrong, there are FIVE Wii U owners, not 10. And the upcoming games? There are only five announced in actually. See, Nintendo had a secret meeting where they discussed it would be in their best interest to limit the no. of game releases to five per year.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

@NathanDrake You clearly haven't read my posts, because I frequently criticize the Wii U and Nintendo's marketing decisions. I'll likely just ignore your posts now though, since you seem to want to fight.



Foxi4 said:


> The fee is only in place to make up for the losses on the hardware and in my opinion, it's good value. Not only you get your console at a lower price point, you also get PSPlus games across all three of Sony's current platforms - what's not to like?
> 
> With the subscription in place, losses will be _"made up"_ quicker than with just games and seeing that it's a good deal, people have more reasons than just Multiplayer to subscribe - there's Instant Game Collection and PSN discounts as well as additional PSPlus-only content like avatars.


That doesn't say their hardware isn't selling at a huge loss.

@the_rando


----------



## jacksprat1990 (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> You and the 10 other Wii U owners on this forum, I'm sure!


 
I don't have a WiiU but I think the games seem pretty good. They look fun.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> That doesn't say their hardware isn't selling at a huge loss.


Not once did I say that it will not sell at a loss - what I said was that it will sell at a loss and PSPlus is supposed to cover it, and it likely will cover it.

In any case, I gave you guys my two cents, might as well leave at this point. The Wii U needs to start selling and it won't start selling with that price tag when there's zero developer interest and two new systems are on the horizon. Nintendo titles alone will not make this boat float, sorry to burst your bubble.

The 3DS thrives on the market because it's affordable and widely-supported by developers - this is the niche the Wii U should aim at right now.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> No, no, no you got it all wrong, there are FIVE Wii U owners, not 10.


Damn it all! Counting is hard. D:



JoostinOnline said:


> @NathanDrake You clearly haven't read my posts, because I frequently criticize the Wii U and Nintendo's marketing decisions. I'll likely just ignore your posts now though, since you seem to want to fight.


Yes, that is your general strategy when you disagree with someone. Last I checked, I was only putting forward entirely legitimate points, but hey, if you want to call that fight hunting, more power to you.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> @NathanDrake You clearly haven't read my posts, because I frequently criticize the Wii U and Nintendo's marketing decisions. I'll likely just ignore your posts now though, since you seem to want to fight.
> 
> That doesn't say their hardware isn't selling at a huge loss.
> 
> *@the_rando*


 



Wat?



Nathan Drake said:


> Damn it all! Counting is hard. D:


 
I only know how to count to potato.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 19, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Not once did I say that it will not sell at a loss - what I said was that it will sell at a loss and PSPlus is supposed to cover it, and it likely will cover it.


Helping cover a loss does not mean it will cover the loss.  And why the fuck do my posts keep getting cut off?  I keep trying to edit my above one, but all it says is "@the_rando"


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Helping cover a loss does not mean it will cover the loss. And why the fuck do my posts keep getting cut off? I keep trying to edit my above one, but all it says is "@the_rando"


 

Oh, no wonder I was confused. Too much traffic on the Temp maybe? What were you trying to tell me? 



Foxi4 said:


> The 3DS thrives on the market because it's affordable and widely-supported by developers - this is the niche the Wii U should aim at right now.


 
Who's to say that the Wii U is forever doomed to oblivion and has no chance in hell of ever recovering?


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Oh, no wonder I was confused. Too much traffic on the Temp maybe? What were you trying to tell me?


That I met a seventh person on MH3U this morning.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Hmmmm...let's continue this elsewhere


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Who's to say that the Wii U is forever doomed to oblivion and has no chance in hell of ever recovering?


Nobody is saying the Wii U is doomed. We're just saying that if it wants to have a chance at "winning" the next gen, it needs a little help that only Nintendo can give it, and at the moment, that isn't games as much as it is price cuts and some rather minor system changes such as memory increases.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Nobody is saying the Wii U is doomed. We're just saying that if it wants to have a chance at "winning" the next gen, it needs a little help that only Nintendo can give it, and at the moment, that isn't games as much as it is price cuts and some rather minor system changes such as memory increases.


 

Whoops, I got this confused with IGN, AGAIN. Sorry . Suffice to say, all we can really do is wait and see how they handle it. They'd damn well better do something about it because I'd rather this not die the same ignominious death that the Virtual Boy had.  It has a lot of potential, and a lot of things could have been improved hardware-wise, but Nintendo knows where it went wrong and are the only ones who can fix it. The 3DS is successful, the Wii sold nearly 100,000,000 units, and the Wii U can at least get close, if they play their cards right. This is my opinion, though, that Nintendo can pull this one off, even if it is extremely painful for now.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Aah, the irrelevancy of a console having the most power somehow making said console sell like hotcakes. Boy, what's next? I can't wait till I see the upcoming console wars once the other two consoles are released, then it will be a very civilized and well thought discussion where people talk calmly, drink tea and have bouts of light laughter.


That does not apply now. PS2<Gamecube<Xbox was different because they all shared a similar overall BRACKET of power, where they were all capable of running whatever multiplatform titles were needed.

Wii<Xbox360=PS3(controversial?) created a partitioned market because the Wii was in it's own computing bracket, and when pop-culture novelty crazes couldn't carry the Wii and all the first-party titles had gone through their generational phases, it became a big nothing (2009-2012) while the PS360 sold at steady paces, hardware and software.

The WiiU has no pop-culture novelty craze, and, as seen with the Gamecube and the N64, first-party titles cannot carry a console to large success. It's never EVER about anything but software, and if the power of a console cannot maintain running modern-day software, that's an issue.

The N64 lost software support due to cartridge memory limitations (hardware). The Gamecube lost software support due to proprietary disc size limitations (hardware). The WiiU lost software support due to computing power limitations (hardware). That's just the way it is. Just like Nintendo reiterated their N64 mistake with the Gamecube, they're reiterating their Wii mistake with the WiiU.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

And if people get all rabid about power, that too is a major imbalance.


----------



## Windaga (Jun 20, 2013)

I personally purchased a Wii U for Pikmin 3, and felt kind of sad when it was pushed back, and all I had were parse 3rd party games to choose from. For a second, I was sad - the thought of third parties on the Wii U wasn't what I wanted, or imagined. But then:


Spoiler











I got happy.

And I'll likely get an Xbox and a PS4 when I can. So as long as they all stay in business, as a gamer, I'll be happy. Being a happy gamer is fun.


----------



## The Milkman (Jun 20, 2013)

Someone owned up to their mistakes?! THIS IS CLEARLY A BAD THING.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Someone owned up to their mistakes?! THIS IS CLEARLY A BAD THING.


 

I know, right!?


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 20, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Someone owned up to their mistakes?! THIS IS CLEARLY A BAD THING.


Yeah, they appropriated the blame to themselves in a way that won't scare off investors.  Basically they said sales could be easily fixed if they pick up on marketing, as if it has absolutely nothing to do with hardware, software, or third party support.


----------



## Pleng (Jun 20, 2013)

I just don't think the WiiU's novelty factor is all that great. Sure, it's a decent enough feature and worth having, but it doesn't carry the same excitement factor as "oh wow... control a console with your body!" which the Wii had.

If they allowed, say, up to 4 pads to connect to the system, then it might find a use as a way to really reinvent the board game. Each player having his own screen could overcome one of the biggest obstacles computer interpretations of board games have. It could even lead to a whole new genre of family turn-based games. But firstly it would get pretty expensive bundling controllers with the system and secondly I just don't see it having a massive appeal.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Pleng said:


> I just don't think the WiiU's novelty factor is all that great. Sure, it's a decent enough feature and worth having, but it doesn't carry the same excitement factor as "oh wow... control a console with your body!" which the Wii had.
> 
> If they allowed, say, up to 4 pads to connect to the system, then it might find a use as a way to really reinvent the board game. Each player having his own screen could overcome one of the biggest obstacles computer interpretations of board games have. It could even lead to a whole new genre of family turn-based games. But firstly it would get pretty expensive bundling controllers with the system and secondly I just don't see it having a massive appeal.


 

So tell me, how are the Xbox One and PS4 any more innovative?


----------



## Pleng (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> So tell me, how are the Xbox One and PS4 any more innovative?


 
What? Where did I ever say they were.


----------



## Crimson Ghoul (Jun 20, 2013)

If they released a FULL pokemon game.. I would buy the console instantly.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Pleng said:


> What? Where did I ever say they were.


 

How are the next consoles any more exciting?  They look like VCRs.


----------



## Pleng (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Pleng said:
> 
> 
> > the_randomizer said:
> ...


 


Um... I think I'm going to just go ahead and repeat my last post:


> What? Where did I ever say they were.


----------



## Gahars (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> So tell me, how are the Xbox One and PS4 any more innovative?


 

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

Just because something is innovative doesn't mean it's good, engaging or worthwhile - in the end, that's what matters most. It'd be "innovative" to make a console's insides filled with raspberry jam, but I doubt people would be happy with that.


----------



## The Milkman (Jun 20, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Yeah, they appropriated the blame to themselves in a way that won't scare off investors. Basically they said sales could be easily fixed if they pick up on marketing, as if it has absolutely nothing to do with hardware, software, or third party support.


 

You're implying any of this stopped them before. I know it's a different game now, but throughout its whole life, the Wii had shit third party support, most of its good titles were first party, and the gap between it and its competitors was MASSIVE.

The masses don't give a shit about hardware specs and all that. They just don't want to buy the 300 dollar controller they think the Wii U is.

I'm sure as hell that if they flat-out told people it was a new console, changed the name to something that doesn't sound like an add-on, they would at the very least have a minor sales increase.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft
> 
> Just because something is innovative doesn't mean it's good, engaging or worthwhile - in the end, that's what matters most. It'd be "innovative" to make a console's insides filled with raspberry jam, but I doubt people would be happy with that.


 

What's wrong with raspberry jam?



Pleng said:


> Um... I think I'm going to just go ahead and repeat my last post:


 
Go right ahead


----------



## The Milkman (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> What's wrong with raspberry jam?


 



the_randomizer said:


> What's the appeal of the other consoles?


 

I know what you're doing, stop now. You're not trolling, you being an idiot. Two way different things.


----------



## Pleng (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> What's the appeal of the other consoles?


 
I don't know. If I was going to get any of the next gen it would be a Wii U. But that's beside the point. I'm *not* most people and most people and most people want a PS3 or XBOX. I guess it's got something to do with the power of the hardware or the third party support that has _historically_ been a given for MS and Sony consoles.

But my comments had nothing to do with the appeal of the XBOX and PS. I was talking about the appeal of the WiiU. The Wii appealed to people that wouldn't normally buy a games console. Nintendo are trying to do the same again with the gamepad. My point is that this gimmik is not as big a draw as the Wiimote. And that has nothing to do with any other consoles.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

I wish this damn thread would be closed already. The only thing it's done so far is create tension.


Edit: Ninja'd by others. Outta here.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 20, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> Your implying any of this stopped them before. I know its a different game now, but through out its whole life, the Wii had shit third party support, most of its good titles were first party, and the gap between it and its competitors was MASSIVE.
> 
> The masses dont give a shit about hardware specs and all that. They just don't want to buy the 300 dollar controller they think the Wii U is.
> 
> Im sure as hell, if they flat-out told people it was a new console, changed the name to something that doesn't sound like an add-on, they would at the very least have a minor sales increase.


I'm not saying their marketing isn't a problem.  It's horrible, and probably their biggest problem right now.

This is just a (clever) way of comforting investors.  It draws attention to the main issue, which can be fixed easily, and away from the many smaller issues, which will take much more time to fix.

In the end, some decent marketing will certainly help the Wii U, but it's not the whole problem.


----------



## Gahars (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> I wish this damn thread would be closed already. The only thing it's done so far is create tension.


 

You know, that's kind of hypocritical when you're the one jumping down so many people's throat and pulling your "Ha ha, just kidding! I'm a trole!"-shtick incessantly.

If you want the thread to die down, then stop posting in it.


----------



## JoostinOnline (Jun 20, 2013)

Gahars said:


> You know, that's kind of hypocritical when you're the one jumping down so many people's throat and pulling your "Ha ha, just kidding! I'm a trole!"-shtick incessantly.
> 
> If you want the thread to die down, then stop posting in it.


Woah there cowboy.  Let's all take a step back, calm down, and blame Canada.


----------



## emigre (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> How are the next consoles any more exciting? They look like VCRs.


 

The new consoles will have consistent third party support and are region free? Which in my book are good things.


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## Walker D (Jun 20, 2013)

Take it easy on the coffee randomizer


Spoiler



You're not on a post rush or going for a big message count right?








On topic: I can't see Nintendo getting a easy and fast increase in sells only by tweaking software and putting some first-party games..  ..It may happen, but probably will take much longer than it should (or a bit less longer depending on how much Nintendo will want to get hurt with a price cut).
I mean, hardware seems to be a big part of the problem (hdd, ram, etc), and it's something that Nintendo would not try to tweak anymore..  ..and shadowing this part of the problem with software, may take time (especially when you have less help from devs..)
I doubt that Nintendo will go heavy on some good marketing also (it'll probably stay more on the family safe kind of ads..)

..by now they should get some lessons from the Nazi's propaganda to change the moods of people! (about the WiiU, not the Jews obviously  )


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## Tigran (Jun 20, 2013)

emigre said:


> The new consoles will have consistent third party support and are region free? Which in my book are good things.


 
Like shooters! And more shooters! And sports! And more shooters! And look.... a shooter that has a bald overly buff protagonist... and another shooter! And a dog... In a shooter!


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## shakirmoledina (Jun 20, 2013)

probably the only company that openly blames themselves.

not a marketing issue with the people but with developers. I think they should to try to work with indie devs and engine creators like Unity and Monkey and have them support game making for the wii u.
then probably the library will increase. no wonder they want to port android to the wii u.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Like shooters! And more shooters! And sports! And more shooters! And look.... a shooter that has a bald overly buff protagonist... and another shooter! And a dog... In a shooter!


 
*Nintendo Fanbase:*

*>When Retro is working on a game, they pray to their Nintendo gods for "Metroid Prime 4"*
*>When any other shooter is being discussed, the game is "bad"*

*>Hate sports games*
*>Love Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Mario Golf etc.*


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## Rayder (Jun 20, 2013)

What was once Nintendo's biggest draw is now becoming their biggest drawback.   Most gamers (especially hardcore) deem Nintendo as kiddie-systems and won't touch them.

Nintendo needs to shed the kiddie-system stigma to stay relevant.  I'm not saying they have to stop with the cutesy games (it was their bread-and-butter for decades, after all) , but they need to balance out the cutesy games with more mature/serious/badass-type games that will attract the hardcore gamers.  And they'd need to be Nintendo-made mature/serious/badass-type games, because 3rd-party companies sure ain't helping.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> *Nintendo Fanbase:*
> 
> *>When Retro is working on a game, they pray to their Nintendo gods for "Metroid Prime 4"*
> *>When any other shooter is being discussed, the game is "bad"*
> ...


 

You do sleep at night...right?


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## Hielkenator (Jun 20, 2013)

emigre said:


> But third party titles generally don't sell on Nintendo consoles. Look at the Wii, the biggest third party gaem was fucking Just Dance.


All Capcom games are worth the system and sold well.
Also the excellentce of SEGA are noteworthy ( Madworld, House of the Dead Overkill )
Then there's No More Heroes 1 & 2, Scarface, Goldeneye, Arc rise Fantasia, the Last Story, Xenoblade...etc etc


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## emigre (Jun 20, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> All Capcom games are worth the system and sold well.
> Also the excellentce of SEGA are noteworthy ( Madworld, House of the Dead Overkill )
> Then there's No More Heroes 1 & 2, Scarface, Goldeneye, Arc rise Fantasia, the Last Story, Xenoblade...etc etc


 

A lot of those gaems did okish at best. I understand there was slight disappointment with The Last Story and Xenoblade( which are first party/second party gaems). ARF sales were pretty meh but the game was average. Madworld and HotD overkill flopped. Sega openly admitted that sales were disappointing.


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## Hielkenator (Jun 20, 2013)

kristianity77 said:


> The problem with the Wii U is that its pretty much garbage. The situtation wont have been helped either by recent announcements of upcoming consoles due for release in the next 6 months or so. The Wii U never really had any identity or knew what its audience was. It was a console that apart from a gimmicky touchscreen, offers nothing really that the Xbox or PS3 didnt offer, and at a much cheaper price point.
> 
> I've owned every Nintendo product from the NES days (but not the WII U), but I see them at some point, going down the road of Sega. Take your games mulitplatform and make your millions that way. Let the other companies battle it out for hardware as Nintendo seem reluctant (financially I expect) to keep up on specs.
> 
> Because let's be honest here, if Nintendo out of the box gave it more power under the hood, and we saw games from day 1 that you just couldn't get near to on xbox and PS3, they would of had a much better start, even if it meant say 20% on top of the first RRP and devs wouldn't have been dropping titles left right and centre.


 
Jesus it isn't a race. Nor is the system a car or High end PC
Gameplay is what counts, and Nintendo can provide that like no other company.
You can have that regardless of specs ( Wich are fine if you ask me )
It's a game machine nothing more.
We will talk again after the 1st party titles set off, lol.



emigre said:


> A lot of those gaems did okish at best. I understand there was slight disappointment with The Last Story and Xenoblade( which are first party/second party gaems). ARF sales were pretty meh but the game was average. Madworld and HotD overkill flopped. Sega openly admitted that sales were disappointing.


Well people should have bought them then, instead of pirating them.
It's not like the the 3rd party devs didn't try or that those game lack in quality or originality.
Or that the Wii is unpopular system. 
Those games are worth there money no doubt. 
So what is the case your think?



KingVamp said:


> I'm kinda suprise Sony and Microsoft is using HDD's vs SSD's.


SSD are old allready, they have a limit write lifecycle.
Wait for the newer HDD's wich are almost the same as ordinary hdd's but with 100 x higher capacity then we now know.
At the speed of SSD.



ggyo said:


> Microsoft is selling Xbox 360's for $150 at a profit (2006 technology). So does the WiiU (1997 IBM-based CPU and circa 2006-some technology) cost over twice as much to manufacture in comparison?
> 
> I don't believe Nintendo. The actual hardware is barely more costly than last generation, and the only new contributing cost factor is the WiiU controller's screen... but it's a TFT, low resolution piece of crap (honestly). No capacitivity, no multitouch, non-corning glass plastic garbage. You can buy iPad Retina display replacement screens for $30-$50.
> 
> Unless the WiiU controller somehow costs a good $100+, the WiiU should not cost so much.


it's not a phone.



BlackWizzard17 said:


> Nintendo should show a commercial on how good there console is and how its a not accessories for the wii. I ask my mom for some money to buy a wii u and she said 'what that thing to play on the wii' 'and i just stared at her like -_-


That's pathetic.
You asked your mom?


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## pwsincd (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> NAND Flash memory is piss poor cheap and the bare prices of the chips in no way justify the massive price gap between the standard and the Premium model..


 
Deluxe model came with nintendoland , charging cradle for gamepad , gamepad stand , 32 gigs , and some glossy black stuff 

EDIT : totally ninja'd didnt read the 4 pages after your post lol..


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## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

Tigran said:


> Like shooters! And more shooters! And sports! And more shooters! And look.... a shooter that has a bald overly buff protagonist... and another shooter! And a dog... In a shooter!


The FPS genre probably has one of the lowest amount of IPs out of all the popular video game genres.

For every FPS, you have like 5 RPGs, 4 of them being JRPGs.


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## pwsincd (Jun 20, 2013)

Maybe like he's young, how would it be pathetic .. wtf sorta comment is that ?


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## BlackWizzard17 (Jun 20, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> That's pathetic.
> You asked your mom?


Well its not like the word of "THE SUPER AMAZING TOUCH SCREEN CONSOLE THINGY'" is shown much and you barely see it as much as playstation and xbox. And yeah I ask my mom for some extra money cause my birthday passed like two days ago.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> it's not a phone.


 
Wait it's not, why didn't ggyo tell me sooner? I knew I shouldn't have sold my Nokia brick phone! The Wii U game pad's technology ain't NOTHING compared to Nokia!   Am I totally wasted or are the people getting more and more upset over trivial issues while getting more and more butt-hurt? 

What was I going to do after I respond to this "discussion"....oh right! *Goes back to playing off-screen play on Wii U game pad*


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## BlackWizzard17 (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Wait it's not, why didn't ggyo tell me sooner? I knew I shouldn't have sold my Nokia brick phone! The Wii U game pad's technology ain't NOTHING compared to Nokia!


Well most people complain about the game pad not being multi-touch but it would kinda suck especially with the buttons in the way for touching the screen or how it would suck if it had no buttons.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

BlackWizzard17 said:


> Well most people complain about the game pad not being multi-touch but it would kinda suck especially with the buttons in the way for touching the screen or how it would suck if it had no buttons.


 

Exactly. If people wanted a better LCD with multi-touch/capacitive features, that's the the iPad is for. They should buy Apple's products since they're better suited for their self-entitled sanctimonious attitudes.

Off-screen play....being able to play games, watch YouTube or Netflix when someone else is using the TV is quite beneficial, but if people want to wait while others watch Glee marathons or Here Comes Honey Boo Boo until they play the precious Xbox One/PS4 games, fine by me.
The technology is similar to Intel's WiDi or Wireless Display tech where AV data is sent from the consol to the game pad with less than 1/60th of second delay. That tech ain't cheap either, people are just being uppity because they can't back up their arguments with facts.


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> You do sleep at night...right?


Sleeping is for the weak.


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## McHaggis (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Sleeping is for the *week*.


 
ftfy, if I had my way...


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## emigre (Jun 20, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> Well people should have bought them then, instead of pirating them.
> It's not like the the 3rd party devs did't try or that those game lack in quality or originality.
> Or that the Wii is unpopulair system.
> Those games are worth there money no doubt.
> So what is the case your think?


 

This is completely relevant to my original point.


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## Lucifer666 (Jun 20, 2013)

Tl;dr the entire thread but I honestly think the biggest way Nintendo could have avoided this is by changing the name before it came out.

It's not that it's bad or crappy, but a lot of oblivious kids and parents genuinely think it's still a Wii, or that their Wiis can play new Wii U games, etc.


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## jacksprat1990 (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> *Nintendo Fanbase:*
> 
> *>When Retro is working on a game, they pray to their Nintendo gods for "Metroid Prime 4"*
> *>When any other shooter is being discussed, the game is "bad"*
> ...


 
I'm a massive Nintendo fanboy and I have to say that statement is pretty much wrong. As much as I would like to see another Metroid Prime, I like the fact that Retro are allowed to make something else from Nintendo's franchises and doing a good job. And I like shooters if they're good.

I like the older Virtua Tennis games, older PES games, older 2K games, the original EA Hockey game, Mutant League etc. but I can't say that I've ever enjoyed a Mario sports game (Tennis, Golf, Football etc.)


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## Foxi4 (Jun 20, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> I'm a massive Nintendo fanboy and I have to say that statement is pretty much wrong. As much as I would like to see another Metroid Prime, I like the fact that Retro are allowed to make something else from Nintendo's franchises and doing a good job. And I like shooters if they're good.
> 
> I like the older Virtua Tennis games, older PES games, older 2K games, the original EA Hockey game, Mutant League etc. but I can't say that I've ever enjoyed a Mario sports game (Tennis, Golf, Football etc.)


 
That was satire/sarcasm, hence the green text.


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## jacksprat1990 (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> That was satire/sarcasm, hence the green text.


 
Ah, I'm not aware of the green text/sarcasm concept. Forgive me


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## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Sleeping is for the weak.


 

Ah, okay, just wondering.


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## The Milkman (Jun 20, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> I'm not saying their marketing isn't a problem. It's horrible, and probably their biggest problem right now.
> 
> This is just a (clever) way of comforting investors. It draws attention to the main issue, which can be fixed easily, and away from the many smaller issues, which will take much more time to fix.
> 
> In the end, some decent marketing will certainly help the Wii U, but it's not the whole problem.


 

I agree there. But just remember, Nintendo has pulled this off before, so im pretty sure the mindset is they can pull it off again. If they can or not (especially being a PowerPC in an x86 world.) this time.


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## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Exactly. If people wanted a better LCD with multi-touch/capacitive features, that's the the iPad is for. They should buy Apple's products since they're better suited for their self-entitled sanctimonious attitudes.
> 
> Off-screen play....being able to play games, watch YouTube or Netflix when someone else is using the TV is quite beneficial, but if people want to wait while others watch Glee marathons or Here Comes Honey Boo Boo until they play the precious Xbox One/PS4 games, fine by me.
> The technology is similar to Intel's WiDi or Wireless Display tech where AV data is sent from the consol to the game pad with less than 1/60th of second delay. That tech ain't cheap either, people are just being uppity because they can't back up their arguments with facts.


Unfortunately, you're wrong... low latency low-range wireless communication is very cheap. Nintendo made it even cheaper by making the range even lower.

The quality of the WiiU controller is not my point. My POINT is that it cannot be a costly device. The components of a WiiU aren't much more expensive than an Xbox 360, which would be evened out by the 360 HDD and the WiiU's lack of. So does the WiiU controller warrant a potential $150 price?

No fuckin' doubt, right?

No. I fuckin' doubt, alright? That Japanese sneaky ninja-pearlharbour-upskirtpeaking company called Nintendo is lying to everybody.


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## jacksprat1990 (Jun 20, 2013)

It's official. Nintendo was behind the Pearl Harbour bombings all along. Those sneaky bastards.


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## mkdms14 (Jun 20, 2013)

Wait a minute is Nintendo actually taking responsibility for its own stupidity?  That does not seem right Nintendo never accepts blame for anything, it is always someone's else's fault.


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## jacksprat1990 (Jun 20, 2013)

mkdms14 said:


> Wait a minute is Nintendo actually taking responsibility for its own stupidity? That does not seem right *Nintendo never accepts blame for anything, it is always someone's else's fault.*


 
Obviously not.


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## Veho (Jun 20, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> Whether Nintendo fans like it or not, Nintendo will have to take action before the PS4 and the XBox One enter the market, or soon after they do and that action will be a price cut. Without it, the Wii U has zero chances of competing with far superior hardware, not with that kind of a price tag.


$300, and you get a frigging _extra screen_ along with the console. No, the price tag is not the problem. The problem is _nogaems_ (and terrible marketing, but most of all, _nogaems_). What they need is a) a title that can do for the WiiU what Wii Sports did for the Wii, and b), they need 3rd party titles, because they can't make "srs mature hardcore titles 4 mature hardcore gamers" to save their _life_. And since no sane company will develop for a console that doesn't sell, Nintendo should fund the development (or porting) themselves. If they're going to lose $100 on every console sold, they should at least spend that money on developing a library of games.


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## Hielkenator (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Unfortunately, you're wrong... low latency low-range wireless communication is very cheap. Nintendo made it even cheaper by making the range even lower.
> 
> The quality of the WiiU controller is not my point. My POINT is that it cannot be a costly device. The components of a WiiU aren't much more expensive than an Xbox 360, which would be evened out by the 360 HDD and the WiiU's lack of. So does the WiiU controller warrant a potential $150 price?
> 
> ...


In essence they developed 2 consoles at the same time.
The Wii gamepad and the WiiU.
Must have been a very costly R&D. 
It's quite a brave achievement without being a MEGAMULTIMILLIONDOLLAR company like Sony and Microsucks.
Besides most people do not care about any specs, they only care about having a good time.
We all know Nintendo can provide us and even getting people together in the living room, instead on forums.


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 21, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> I agree there. But just remember, Nintendo has pulled this off before, so im pretty sure the mindset is they can pull it off again. If they can or not (especially being a PowerPC in an x86 world.) this time.


Most companies have.   Remember Sony's speech at E3 2011 where they "apologized" for PSN getting hacked?  They made it sound like PSN just had some downtime (as opposed to major security flaws) and covered it up with free games.  Pretty much everybody fell to their knees and forgave Sony.


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## chavosaur (Jun 21, 2013)

JoostinOnline said:


> Most companies have.   Remember Sony's speech at E3 2011 where they "apologized" for PSN getting hacked?  They made it sound like PSN just had some downtime (as opposed to major security flaws) and covered it up with free games.  Pretty much everybody fell to their knees and forgave Sony.


I wouldn't go so far as to say that. A lot of people fell off the Sony bandwagon after the hack. My father wouldn't even consider a PS4 for the sole reason that he doesn't trust the PSN infrastructure. And we didn't even own a PS3!
(We considered it, but after that he wanted nothing to do with it)
And I can think of many people that turned their backs on Sony and never looked back after the hack happened.


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## ggyo (Jun 21, 2013)

Hielkenator said:


> Inessence they developed 2 consoles at the same time.
> The Wii gamepad and the WiiU.
> Must have been a very costly R&D.
> It's quite a brave achievement without being a MEGAMULTIMILLIONDOLLAR company like Sony and Microsucks.
> ...


Not true. The gamepad is a controller with a screen. There's no internal processing. No ram, no CPU, no GPU. Even the screen isn't a hallmark. Not special, and it's been done in the gaming world.
Throwing a screen on a controller is not costly R&D... wtf... what's there to research and develop? Did you know "R" and "D" stand for "RESEARCH" and "DEVELOP"? They didn't re-invent the controller. They didn't re-invent the screen. Their controller is missing analog shoulder buttons, and they almost used slider analog pads, and the screen is TFT, non-multitouch, low resolution. They went backwards.
Nintendo has a gross marketworth, networth and more holdings than Sony. Since 2000 (more 1999), post Walkman-brand success, Sony has been annually losing billions... over $180 billion, as their marketworth was over $200 billion in 2000, and now it's edging under the $20 billion mark, but after consolidating software and hardware and reforming their HDTV sections, they've begun to climb up again. Also, MicroSOFT is probably one of the most valuable, philanthropic and charitable companies in the world. Sony and Nintendo don't do shit for people besides those in their own country, and even then it's pretty lackluster.
True.
True, but only because their online gaming is so terrible. What else are people gonna do?


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 21, 2013)

Once again, ignore ggyo.  He's nothing but a troll.  There is a thread in the EoF dedicated to laughing at the shit he says.


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## emigre (Jun 21, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to say that. A lot of people fell off the Sony bandwagon after the hack. My father wouldn't even consider a PS4 for the sole reason that he doesn't trust the PSN infrastructure. And we didn't even own a PS3!
> (We considered it, but after that he wanted nothing to do with it)
> And I can think of many people that turned their backs on Sony and never looked back after the hack happened.


 

I would say the Playstation division has become a better company in recent years after $599 and the PSN hack. They've learnt from their mistakes and winning people over in a number of ways. The content Sony are willing to greenlight is fantastic in terms of quality and diversity regarding their exclusive gaems, PS+ have given great values, the controller redesign, the desire to make their consoles more 'open',the PS4 a symbolism of Sony learning from their mistakes. And with guys like Yoshida and Boyles running things, I feel like they know what they want to do and the evidence is pointing towards that.


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## The Milkman (Jun 21, 2013)

emigre said:


> I would say the Playstation division has become a better company in recent years after $599 and the PSN hack. They've learnt from their mistakes and winning people over in a number of ways. The content Sony are willing to greenlight is fantastic in terms of quality and diversity regarding their exclusive gaems, PS+ have given great values, the controller redesign, the desire to make their consoles more 'open',the PS4 a symbolism of Sony learning from their mistakes. And with guys like Yoshida and Boyles running things, I feel like they know what they want to do and the evidence is pointing towards that.


 

I can see why Valve likes them so much. They pretty much want to do what they've done on PC in the console market. True pioneers.


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## Deleted_171835 (Jun 21, 2013)

While the Playstation division certainly seems to have improved quite a bit over the early-PS3 era, I wouldn't say that they are 100% back on track just yet. They still managed to release a system that's absolutely dead on the market and completely ignored by their own devs, the Vita and seem dead-set on sticking with those overpriced proprietary memory cards. The PS4 does look to be a solid system (nice price, specs are good, etc.) but I maintain that it's too early to say whether they've truly changed from their old ways.



The Milkman said:


> I can see why Valve likes them so much. They pretty much want to do what they've done on PC in the console market. True pioneers.


http://www.destructoid.com/breaking-valve-still-hates-the-ps3--138312.phtml
http://kotaku.com/5544168/valve-ps3-is-like-a-gamecube
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/11/valves-gabe-newell-says-ps3-a-waste-of-time/

Valve was forced to rescind their earlier statements because they were releasing Portal 2 on the PS3 (ignoring one of the biggest platforms on the market would be dumb). Not some love-fest.


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## The Milkman (Jun 21, 2013)

soulx said:


> http://www.destructoid.com/breaking-valve-still-hates-the-ps3--138312.phtml
> http://kotaku.com/5544168/valve-ps3-is-like-a-gamecube
> http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/11/valves-gabe-newell-says-ps3-a-waste-of-time/
> 
> Valve was forced to rescind their earlier statements because they were releasing Portal 2 on the PS3 (ignoring one of the biggest platforms on the market would be dumb). Not some love-fest.


 

Huh, I thought it was the other way around. Oh well.


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