# ROM sites and R4 Sellers being ratted out



## Trolly (Oct 5, 2009)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Earlier this year, Nintendo announced that it and 54 software game companies were filing a lawsuit with the Tokyo District Court against companies that import "R4 Revolution"-type devices, using the Unfair Competition Prevention Law as the legal grounding.
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> According to Nintendo, such devices hurts the growth of the entire game industry and steps must be taken regarding the legality of R4 carts. It's important to note that this legal injunction is for Japan only.
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Source: Kotaku

The ROM site I've been using for the past 3 years went down today :'(. Seems quite a few more have as well, damnitt! Guess there'll always be torrent sites at least.


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## deethebee (Oct 5, 2009)

dood that sucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the ones i use are still up though (ftw) nintendo's nuts and need to lay off you spent around 100$(usa) for a ds you should be able to do whatever you want with it or at least thats how i feel lol


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## Tall Alien 2 (Oct 5, 2009)

fuck


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## Richy Freeway (Oct 5, 2009)

deethebee said:
			
		

> dood that sucks
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So because I spent loads of money on a car I should be able to steal the fuel?

Your reasoning is retarded.


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## Celice (Oct 5, 2009)

I usually just torrent the games anyways, considering the speed is, normally, much faster than dicking around with direct downloads.


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## syko5150 (Oct 5, 2009)

Richy Freeway said:
			
		

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lol +1...Nintendo has every right to shut down these places selling games...i download games illegally for the sole reason that i can, if Nintendo were to gain a major victory over the piracy scene i would go back to buying games but why pay for what you can get free...


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## Depravo (Oct 5, 2009)

Soon they'll be banning C-90 cassettes to stop you taping songs from the radio. What is the world coming to?


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## syko5150 (Oct 5, 2009)

Depravo said:
			
		

> Soon they'll be banning C-90 cassettes to stop you taping songs from the radio. What is the world coming to?


lol people still do that?i haven't recorded songs off the radio in over a decade lol =P


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## palasx (Oct 5, 2009)

Richy Freeway said:
			
		

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oh i get it, cars run on fuel, and the NDS runs on games. thats clever...no...wait...that other thing...completely wrong. NDS runs on electricity, not games. games are just the fun part. so by Richy's logic and your shitty analogy, if i spent loads of money on a car i should be able to steal the passengers! (who will be using the majority of my fuel)

ROADTRIP!

as for the hardcore pirates, big N cant stop them. as far as i know, only the DCMA in america has the power to make arbitrary code illigal, and NDS emulators can still run pretty much anything. i propose that the same people who would/do buy "R4 like devices" to play games for free would also play the game on emulator in order to avoid paying for it. i damn sure never spent a dime on a gba or any carts, thats for sure.


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## syko5150 (Oct 5, 2009)

palasx said:
			
		

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lol thats not what they meant...a car is useless without fuel and a DS is useless without games...


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## DBlaze (Oct 5, 2009)

Richy Freeway said:
			
		

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Going on the entire "OH GOD I WANT OPEN SOURCE" kind of story, just like the Wii, there are also people using these devices to actually run homebrew. I know and understand WHY Nintendo is shutting and hunting down these kinds of things, but in the end, we are the one that own a Wii or DS, so we SHOULD be able to use it as we please.
However most people just use the homebrew devices for rom loading, as for manufacturers advertising that is can load commercial roms.


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## chrisman01 (Oct 5, 2009)

Most people that own flash carts pirate games, so in a way this is a good thing.

Then there are those like me that don't have the tools to backup games on their own, so we hunt down a ROM site... so I guess this is a bad thing for the few people like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ah well.  They can't kill the homebrew


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## alidsl (Oct 5, 2009)

everyone go to that site and type in Tescos


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## Satangel (Oct 5, 2009)

From my 10 romssites I have bookmarked, 2 of them are lost.
Ah well, they didn't close the biggest and fastest ones, so no sweat


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## Maz7006 (Oct 5, 2009)

Satangel said:
			
		

> From my 10 romssites I have bookmarked, 2 of them are lost.
> Ah well, they didn't close the biggest and fastest ones, so no sweat



same thing here,

there is always torrents in the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





i think ninty is serious this time round though.


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## Overlord Nadrian (Oct 5, 2009)

1 of the romsites I visited only hosts the NFO's now... Prolly Ninty's fault too... :angy:


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## Shakraka (Oct 5, 2009)

.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 5, 2009)

Shakraka said:
			
		

> If you get reported, Nintendo will come to your house at night and rape your women, steal your livestock, and burn your house down.



Burnin' your women, rapin' your churches...

The ROM site I've used since I got my R4 is still up and running, although for the first time they were forced to take down a ROM, which was MySims Agents. It was still a shitty game, though, so no big loss.


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## Santee (Oct 5, 2009)

But how will they take down megaupload and those sites hmmm.


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## Taijo (Oct 5, 2009)

palasx said:
			
		

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The only thing wrong with his analogy is not covering up for donkeys like you. He meant that a car is useless without fuel like the DS is useless without games.

And you know this... yet you had to be a smartass. You sir, suck at arguing for not letting an opportunity to "score" pass by even though you understood what he meant and even though it was irrelevant to the discussion.

Anyway, commenting on your "shitty analogy"... no, its not right to steal the passengers just because you bought the car (woah, and you just criticized HIS analogy?).  Mainly because they are human beings, and suffer, unlike games. (see what I did there? I can be a smartass too.) 

The bottom line is pirating games is wrong, no matter how much the companies deserve to not get your money. But it isnt going to change anytime soon.


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## geoflcl (Oct 5, 2009)

Silly Nintendo. 

What they're doing is lame, yet effective. It's like a kindergarten student tattling on someone, then making faces at them while they're wearing the Dunce Cap in the corner.


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## alidsl (Oct 5, 2009)

It's impossible to stop piracy


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## Minox (Oct 5, 2009)

alidsl said:
			
		

> It's impossible to stop piracy


Well, technically it isn't. However, to stop it they'd have to use such extreme measures that human rights would be violated in major ways.


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## imz (Oct 5, 2009)

Notice they only talk about the R4, that cart will die out soon anyway as there is a lack of updates and many other flashcarts are more reliable and cheaper.


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## Overlord Nadrian (Oct 5, 2009)

imz said:
			
		

> Notice they only talk about the R4, that cart will die out soon anyway as there is a lack of updates and many other flashcarts are more reliable and cheaper.


Um, the R4 died A LONG time ago.


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## alidsl (Oct 5, 2009)

Minox_IX said:
			
		

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the aim of nintendo is to make money, to make money you stop piracy, to stop piracy you kill all pirates, you get shut down and go bankrupt


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## DrOctapu (Oct 5, 2009)

Fighting off roms is futile, as long as people want free stuff, hackers want a challenge, and game companies want money, the cycle will continue, and people will still get free games, music, applications, and movies. Nintendo can fight it off as much as they want, but the only secure system is one that doesn't work in the first place and has no power source. People will always find a way, and, if they don't, we always have emulators, and, if we don't have those, we'll have theft, which is always a bad thing, but people will do it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 5, 2009)

alidsl said:
			
		

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...Although odds are they'll end up loosing more money on their anti-piracy crusades than the money they would get back from the small amount of piracy they've stopped. Honestly, piracy will always be there and it will always take some money away from companies, but I doubt it will ever have enough impact to actually cause serious financial harm to a company. Nintendo has still sold tens of millions of copies of some games, not to mention the gigantic pool of money they got from selling like 50 million Wii units.


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## RupeeClock (Oct 5, 2009)

Overlord Nadrian said:
			
		

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You know, except it "didn't", so to speak.
Have you seen Nintendo's anti piracy site? They seem to acknowledge very few flashcarts for some reason, including ones I have never heard of.
http://ap.nintendo.com/detect/photos/devices/copiers_ds.jsp

None of the recent major ones like M3, Acekard, CycloDS, DSTT, EZ Flash, that's weird.

These piracy scenes have been going for years, and if Nintendo manage to kill a major site, another will arise in it's place anyway.


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## Hypershad12 (Oct 5, 2009)

Seems they added a few flashcarts to the list since I checked. I only use one rom site, and It still hasn't gone down. Hooray!


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## Linkiboy (Oct 5, 2009)

I've been using the same rom site since 2002. Even if a few go down there are going to be plenty left!


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## House Spider (Oct 5, 2009)

They seem to target the R4 because they still thinks its the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway torrents will be slow because everybody will be using them. Anyway I think they're just a bit greedy. They already have billions and they want more. They either greedy or pissed about the fact we bypassed the M&L:BiS quicker than expected.


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## Psyfira (Oct 5, 2009)

Maybe Nintendo will finally click that if they'd embraced the homebrew community in the first place they wouldn't be in this mess. Or not quite so much of a mess. Well, one can dream anyway.


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## Rayder (Oct 5, 2009)

Ninty has to show their 3rd-party's that they are doing something about the rampant piracy on the DS so they will continue to produce their shovelware for the system.

I imagine piracy is the main reason for so much shovelware on the system.  But now, companies have discovered that people (mainly clueless noobs, parents and people with more dollars than sense) actually BUY the shovelware, whereas GOOD games don't sell nearly as well as they should because seasoned and knowledgeable gamers know how to get them for free instead of ever buying them.

So, all their anti-piracy measures, whether it be AP on the games or shutting down various ROM sites, doesn't really mean much.  At worst, it just slows down the process of collecting the ROMs for collectors who have to have EVERY dump. At best, it could man we see less working shovelware dumps as no one will bother to workaround the protection as diligently for shovelware as they will for decent games.  But the fact of the matter is that shovelware has found a home on the DS in a major way and even if they completely stopped piracy on the DS, the shovelware will continue on. Good games will still be far and few between.

As for flashcarts, they ARE illegal if they can boot a commercial ROM dump.  The only "legal" ones don't play retail games at all, only homebrew, and very few are made that way.  They are rendered illegal simply because the teams associated with them released updates to circumvent AP on the retail ROM dumps so they can be played on the cart.  That alone makes them illegal.  I never could understand how anyone could ever think some weak statement that since they also play homebrew that this alone makes them legal in any way when they are actively updated to play the latest commercial games. But you know, these are "laws" most of us here don't care about anyway.  It doesn't make the laws non-existent just because we don't abide by them, or rationalize them away with weak statements. 

Just think how many people are sitting on ALL the DS ROM dumps right now, whether they be on their hard drives or burned to DVD's or on some server somewhere.  They will never stop people from just starting up another site under a different name. One site goes down, two more pop up to fill in the gap.  The ROMs are out there regardless of how many sites Ninty shuts down.  Maybe if Ninty aggressively pursued ROM sites and flashcarts years ago instead of just now getting to it in earnest, they would have had a chance at curbing such rampant piracy on the DS, but it's "too little, too late" now.

Their best bet now is to dump regular DS game development and focus on DSi-only games since no one has cracked DSi mode yet.  Instant piracy stopper right there.  Then, once people do hack the DSi (yeah, there are supposed hacks, but until it's released to the public, I say they don't exist...put up or shut up on that front, I say) Ninty should just move on to another system instead of wasting resources battling against piracy that they can never truly stop.


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## RupeeClock (Oct 5, 2009)

WarioN64 said:
			
		

> Anyway torrents will be slow because everybody will be using them.



That's not how torrents work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



The more people using torrents, the more users you can connect to, and retrieve packets from.

@Rayder.
Have noticed that Ubisoft have taken to releasing more DSi enhanced games as of late?
Add some useless bonus content, and you cut out a huge portion of flashcarts that can run the ROM.


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## Jakob95 (Oct 5, 2009)

Rayder said:
			
		

> Ninty has to show their 3rd-party's that they are doing something about the rampant piracy on the DS so they will continue to produce their shovelware for the system.
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> I imagine piracy is the main reason for so much shovelware on the system.  But now, companies have discovered that people (mainly clueless noobs, parents and people with more dollars than sense) actually BUY the shovelware, whereas GOOD games don't sell nearly as well as they should because seasoned and knowledgeable gamers know how to get them for free instead of ever buying them.
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iPlayer also counts illigel and so does GameNmusic whatever the name is... Because iPlayer could run GBA games and Datels could run Lameboy...


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## nutella (Oct 5, 2009)

Why the hell bother with rom sites and R4 sellers? Nintendo should work on the actual protection in the games they make. Maybe the've been discouraged because they all get bypassed within a day, but Mario Brothers BiS shows us Nintendo has the ability to annoy hackers pretty badly. They're getting better with these anti-piracy blcoks. I expect more of this kind of protection within the coming months rather than them bothering with R4 sites.

What Nintendo doesn't realise (or maybe hasn't shown that they realise) is that the majority of R4 owners don't shit about sites like GBAtemp. Seriously, most R4 owners don't bother with a game if there is slight protection. All the flashcart owners I know (who foolishly bought R4's) went out and bought GTA:CW because they thought it just didn't work. I never told them about the patch. But the point is, many people who but these flashcarts are parents, who have the ability to search google for romsites, but don't have the ability to patch games.

I support nintendo in trying to stop piracy, even if its bad for us. I really do. You should all realise you all got WAY more than you paid for even for the shittiest of flashcarts. The fact is, they're screwed until they either one, make DSi only games (that is, as long as its not hacked) or two, make a new console.

By the dub, that goes for the Wii as well. They REALLY effed themselves on that one.


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## Jakob95 (Oct 5, 2009)

hamtotem said:
			
		

> Why the hell bother with rom sites and R4 sellers? Nintendo should work on the actual protection in the games they make. Maybe the've been discouraged because they all get bypassed within a day, but Mario Brothers BiS shows us Nintendo has the ability to annoy hackers pretty badly. They're getting better with these anti-piracy blcoks. I expect more of this kind of protection within the coming months rather than them bothering with R4 sites.
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> What Nintendo doesn't realise (or maybe hasn't shown that they realise) is that the majority of R4 owners don't shit about sites like GBAtemp. Seriously, most R4 owners don't bother with a game if there is slight protection. All the flashcart owners I know (who foolishly bought R4's) went out and bought GTA:CW because they thought it just didn't work. I never told them about the patch. But the point is, many people who but these flashcarts are parents, who have the ability to search google for romsites, but don't have the ability to patch games.
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My parents don't know anything about Nintendo and stuff like that.  I am only 14(not a parent) and I know how to google and wait for a patch to come out.  And know one really taught me how to use google.com or any flashcarts.  My parents don't even know hot to use the Internet only thing they know is there email and what they do for work...


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## nutella (Oct 5, 2009)

jakob95 said:
			
		

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Yes, you are like the majoirty of people ON THIS SITE. Obviously you know about patches and the like because your a temper. But many parents buy flashcarts for their kids and not for themselves, so they only really care about romsites and not sites that tell you how to fix problems. I'm not saying that 90% of flashcart buyers are parents, but many are.


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## Christopher8827 (Oct 5, 2009)

Piracy is going eventually ruin the Nintendo DS, after all - they need our money to develop games. Pirating roms is stealing (not borrowing!) a developer's hard earn cash efforts and stunts the game industry, and the console's lifespan. eg: Playstation 1's cds could be copied. Let's remind people that these commercial .nds files have value in them.


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## GreatZimkogway (Oct 5, 2009)

Wonder why they let the Action Replay and GameShark sell then.  Both are technically "illegal", going by their double-standards.  I mean, come on.  They contact sites to remove a certain ROM from being able to be downloaded, yet don't go after the entire site?  They aren't serious about it, just gotta look like they're doing something.


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## RupeeClock (Oct 5, 2009)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Wonder why they let the Action Replay and GameShark sell then.  Both are technically "illegal", going by their double-standards.  I mean, come on.  They contact sites to remove a certain ROM from being able to be downloaded, yet don't go after the entire site?  They aren't serious about it, just gotta look like they're doing something.



I don't believe unlicensed devices have ever been illegal for any system, dating back to NES's game genie, or code master's unique Megadrive games, etc.

But Nintendo don't like the devices and make an effort of it to block them, their DSi agreement even says about cheating.


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## Quick-zeno (Oct 6, 2009)

*Goes and checks his fav rom site*
Its still rawking


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## GreatZimkogway (Oct 6, 2009)

Quick-zeno said:
			
		

> *Goes and checks his fav rom site*
> Its still rawking



So is mine! XD


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## Scott-105 (Oct 6, 2009)

Of course Nintendo's gonna try to stop piracy! I'm not worried about it though. It seems as if they don't even know about bigger flashcart companies.


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## Shad0wninja (Oct 6, 2009)

I found a similar article to that, on IGN.


			
				IGN.com said:
			
		

> October 5, 2009 - Nintendo made a major move today in its ongoing fight against DS piracy. Joined by 54 game publishers, including such giants as Square Enix and Capcom, the company filed suit in Tokyo District Court seeking the halt in import and sale of Majicon devices, as well as damages from vendors who continue to sell the devices.
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Source: http://ds.ign.com/articles/103/1031306p1.html
Uh oh!
Nintendo's going hardcore now.

EDIT: If you want to submit a form, go here: https://secure.nintendo.co.jp/fraud/form.html
But it's in Japanese, I dunno if there's an English part. :S


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## m-p{3} (Oct 6, 2009)

Type to input some fake data in those anonymous forms


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## Cablephish (Oct 6, 2009)

Taijo said:
			
		

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Everyone quit bitchin'. You can always just use Pictochat if you have a DS.


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## Guild McCommunist (Oct 6, 2009)

Cablephish said:
			
		

> Everyone quit bitchin'. You can always just use Pictochat if you have a DS.



If my MS Paint skillz were better, I'd make a drawing of that.

There's no point debating piracy here. While there's some issues while there'll still be a large enough minority to have a reasonable point on it, probably 95% of people here have pirated, pirate, or will pirate games in the future. No one cares.


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## Cablephish (Oct 6, 2009)

I feel really bad about piracy for Nintendo, since I'm not helping at all. Piracy actually branched out from me to people I know. I got a flashcart, which I showed to friends, now my friends have flashcarts, then they tell their friends, and it just turned into this giant web, and I'm in the middle.


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## blainy (Oct 6, 2009)

Rayder said:
			
		

> As for flashcarts, they ARE illegal if they can boot a commercial ROM dump.  The only "legal" ones don't play retail games at all, only homebrew, and very few are made that way.  They are rendered illegal simply because the teams associated with them released updates to circumvent AP on the retail ROM dumps so they can be played on the cart.  That alone makes them illegal.  I never could understand how anyone could ever think some weak statement that since they also play homebrew that this alone makes them legal in any way when they are actively updated to play the latest commercial games. But you know, these are "laws" most of us here don't care about anyway.  It doesn't make the laws non-existent just because we don't abide by them, or rationalize them away with weak statements.



so are you saying it is the hardware devices themselves that are illegal?? or the firmware/OS that allows commercial roms to be played?? i was under the impression that as long as the flashcart wasnt supplied with preloaded firmware, it was legal to be bought and sold anywhere?? or is this somethign that varies from state to state and country to country?


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## Bluelaserman (Oct 6, 2009)

Majicon sounds like a fish


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## Maz7006 (Oct 6, 2009)

IchigoSJ said:
			
		

> But how will they take down megaupload and those sites hmmm.
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The iPlayer is the one card i feel sorry for the most. The team INSISTED that it wouldn't be used for piracy. The GBA Emulator came after firmware 1.4, which blocked it out. A big face palm for the team. So yeah, that was really harsh from ninty, anyway i don't think it will stop them from developing, yet again it does run homebrew so it is classified as 'illegal'


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## Canonbeat234 (Oct 6, 2009)

You see what I mean, Nintendo is just making it known. That they will do something about it and guess what, the rom sites and flashcard makers will just go into a low profile once again.

If Nintendo REALLY REALLY want to get rid of flashcards to like 60%, they first need to pretend nothing is happening. Grab all the flashcards from the market, start experimenting them until they can find exploits, then finally create an update (if ppl are stupid enough) that will brick certain flashcards and etc.

The only thing that's stopping them is that flashcards being made in the US can sue Nintendo for sabotaging the product of the flashcard which can make Nintendo look bad in the media's eye. However, business is business.


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## GreatZimkogway (Oct 6, 2009)

Maz7006 said:
			
		

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Why would you feel bad for them?  It was "illegal" from the start, according to Nintendo.  It doesn't matter who makes what, if the original firmware of it was NOT made by Nintendo, it was blocked.  Datel's Action Replay devices were blocked.  We're they illegal?  No.  But they ran using code not authorized by Nintendo.  Everything that ran/run's code like that is essentially "illegal".  It doesn't really matter what the makers insist upon, for they could *easily* pull up another name and make something for it.  

Face it, would've been blocked no matter what.  No real point feeling bad for them.


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## GeekyGuy (Oct 6, 2009)

Rayder said:
			
		

> ...As for flashcarts, they ARE illegal if they can boot a commercial ROM dump.  The only "legal" ones don't play retail games at all, only homebrew, and very few are made that way....



That may be true in other countries, but not in the United States. The Supreme Court established that people can make a "reasonable number" of copies of media they purchased to be used for private use. Other companies tried that shit here in the States when VHS tapes first hit the market, and the judicial system was clear about allowing certain amounts of duplication for private use.

Now, modding a system is a different story, though it's still a grey area, one Nintendo has exploited so far. But if you notice, they haven't even bothered to take any type of legal action against the sale or use of flashcards here in the States...and they won't, not unless they are prepared to take it all the way to the Supreme Court, which would likely be completely fruitless.

What they're doing here is merely putting a bandage on a wound until they can steer their media delivery toward digital distribution. Sony is on the right track with PSP go, but it's the transitional process that's going to hurt both companies, and there's no way around that. Nintendo, however, have been avoiding the Internet like the plague, and so they've got their work cut out for them.


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## shakirmoledina (Oct 6, 2009)

its never gonna end ie.) the campaign to close r4s and the r4 makers


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## Yuan (Oct 6, 2009)

If nintendo can take off R4 Clones from market it will be a great FAVOR for us. lol


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## shito (Oct 6, 2009)

r4's are dead already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, nintendo is only cleaning up, btw  for every rom sites nintendo shut down about 10 new ones wil open (just like torrent sites)


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## DSGamer64 (Oct 6, 2009)

Maz7006 said:
			
		

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There are plenty of other hosting sites out there aside from Megaupload, some of the places I have downloaded from used to use Megaupload and Rapidshare but have switched since they started cracking down on DS Roms. Funny though that MU has no problem hosting movies and stuff which is also copyrighted material but they go after DS games.

Homebrew isn't illegal at all, neither is the iPlayer so long as you aren't using the GBA emulator.


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## imz (Oct 6, 2009)

Overlord Nadrian said:
			
		

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If it's still on sale it means people are still buying it which means it's not dead just yet


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## BAHIM Z 360 (Oct 6, 2009)

Meh big deal nintendo


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## House Spider (Oct 6, 2009)

Everyone, get the Acekard2i's and the CycloDS's into the Nintendo protection shelter! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jokes aside I don't think they're serious and they shouldn't hit small-time countries like Ireland.


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## alidsl (Oct 6, 2009)

if the sites shut down then it will affect everyone


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## TheDarkSeed (Oct 6, 2009)

Having a flash card is just too damn convenient for me. I'll still support the franchise of a game by actually buying it. But the games that are not worth buying I'll just download and let it rot inside my micro SD being seldom used.


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## outgum (Oct 6, 2009)

Imma send a form saying "lol" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




If anyone wants to know what the form says, it says:
Nintendo is to eliminate the illegal act and remodeling products from illegal copying tools, such as video game market, in order to maintain an environment to enjoy the game and secure a healthy market, Nintendo's products and services related to abuse from everyone are seeking information about products or illegal.
If you provide the information, specific information to fill out your entry form the following as possible, please send us.

The information you provide, the support will gradually after confirming with Nintendo, not at all correspond. In addition, the conditions for contact information for any answer you provide is not so, Please note.

Also, My posts consist of:
"lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
lololololololololololololol"
and in the second box
"ROFLMAO! XDDDDDDD PHAIL"


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## sumarth (Oct 7, 2009)

nintendo does try its best to stop flashcarts - tha dsi firmware blocks and anti-piracy code in new games are proof of that

but, they would *not want to attract too much attention* because if they do every kid who reads about it on the news will want to buy one

if you never heard of a flashcart, how are you going to buy one

there is also brainwashing that the fbi will come and blow your door to toothpicks, which makes the fools scared


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## Hop2089 (Oct 7, 2009)

sumarth said:
			
		

> nintendo does try its best to stop flashcarts - tha dsi firmware blocks and anti-piracy code in new games are proof of that
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Which will never happen unless

1. You sell roms for profit
2. Have a stockpile of flashcarts (I don't mean own every flashcart in existence, I mean owning hundreds and thousands of them which give the impression of the intent to sell)
3. Selling Flashcarts on the open market


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## House Spider (Oct 7, 2009)

Actually I have a copy of every slot-1 kit.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That reminds me, is the DSFirecard real?


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