# What constitutes an unacceptable post?  -- Pokemon Deoxys vs. Guitar H



## striderx (Jun 26, 2008)

Could someone please explain how the forum rules have been applied regarding hacking two recent ROMs?

A topic with specific info needed to hack *Guitar Hero: On Tour *seems to be allowed.  In it pointers to hacked files are clearly included.

http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=92205

In the *Pokemon Deoxys Event ROM *topics, hex strings were included and resulted in them being removed by the moderator.

http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=92283

Why the difference?  How is a posting to a hacked ARM9 file any different than the Deoxys info?  Did the Deoxys author just need to find a host offsite to be okay?

Just curious...

striderx


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## science (Jun 26, 2008)

What?? That was such a helpful guide too, and I never got around to using it


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## JPH (Jun 26, 2008)

I never saw the Guitar Hero: On Tour hack topic - or I would have investigated its legality. 
The Pokemon Deoxys hack guide clearly showed copyrighted code, and it was removed.
I'm not very technical when it comes to hacking and hex editing - what exactly isn't legal about posting a hack for Guitar Hero: On Tour controls? It's been done for Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and a topic on GBAtemp was created (this was a while ago, but still...) and it didn't get removed.

What's not legal about the Guitar Hero: On Tour hack?


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## Dominator (Jun 26, 2008)

A lot of topic are about rom hacking, i dont' see the deoxys topic, but in my post there is no Rom and not illegal link.


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## Urza (Jun 26, 2008)

edit: Fuck it. This board's management has gone down the drain. No fucking point anymore.


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## Dominator (Jun 26, 2008)

Xd, Urza,  i wait for this kind of post, thanks


the no-edited post


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## striderx (Jun 26, 2008)

dominator said:
			
		

> A lot of topic are about rom hacking, i dont' see the deoxys topic, but in my post there is no Rom and not illegal link.



Okay, so that's the crux of my question.  The Deoxys topic didn't have a ROM either.  It had hex strings from the .bin file inside the .nds package, what in most cases seems to be equated with the "ROM".  Hell, maybe the entire .bin file was posted...  it's small enough.  So maybe it was a ket 'part of the ROM.'

But the Deoxys problem seemed to center around 'copyrighted code.'  Okay, if that was the reason, then why isn't the ARM9 file treated the same way?  Isn't the ARM9 file considered copyrighted too?

I don't want to take anything away from the community, and I certainly don't want gbatemp.net to expose itself to any liability that could hurt it.  I get a LOT of value from it.  But I am interested in where the lines are drawn, that's all.

Thanks...

striderx

Urza...  I'd like to buy you a beer someday.  Assuming you enjoy beer.


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## Dominator (Jun 26, 2008)

if you show me the topic, or the code or the reason of the delete topic i can see and make a judgement........


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## Destructobot (Jun 26, 2008)

This subject has never really been addressed adequately. The files from a rom are copyrighted just like the entire rom, but that wasn't considered a problem when everyone was doing the arm7 fix and posting arm7.bin files. Then there are all the sprites and game graphics that people post and use as sigs and avatars, those are copyrighted too.

As for the Deoxys topics, I never looked at them, but from what you've described it sounds like they should not have been removed.


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## Deleted User (Jun 26, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> I never saw the Guitar Hero: On Tour hack topic - or I would have investigated its legality.
> The Pokemon Deoxys hack guide clearly showed copyrighted code, and it was removed.
> I'm not very technical when it comes to hacking and hex editing - what exactly isn't legal about posting a hack for Guitar Hero: On Tour controls? It's been done for Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and a topic on GBAtemp was created (this was a while ago, but still...) and it didn't get removed.
> 
> What's not legal about the Guitar Hero: On Tour hack?




I know a lot about U.S. copyright laws and stuff and I have to say that the Deoxys topic had no illegal code. It was all hex for one thing. I also happen to know the reverse engineering is completely legal in United States just as long as you don't sell and reverse engineered software that was under copyright. But since this site is hosted in France, I guess we are governed by French and whatever country we belong to's law you'd have to also check french laws, but I know they are way stricter about the stuff and I believe reverse engineering is illegal in France.

EDIT: It seems that if we are just going by the user's country's laws, then the Guitar Hero one should be removed as the user is from France and it is illegal in France. It is not illegal in germany where the Deoxys hack person is from.


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## striderx (Jun 26, 2008)

[open]

can of worms

.
.
.
.


Now, where's the close command?!?!

striderx


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## striderx (Jun 26, 2008)

Destructobot said:
			
		

> This subject has never really been addressed adequately. The files from a rom are copyrighted just like the entire rom, but that wasn't considered a problem when everyone was doing the arm7 fix and posting arm7.bin files. Then there are all the sprites and game graphics that people post and use as sigs and avatars, those are copyrighted too.
> 
> As for the Deoxys topics, I never looked at them, but from what you've described it sounds like they should not have been removed.



This is what I thought.  And the ARMx files might be a slightly different case, like distributing vbax.dll files...  Microsoft in fact encouraged that to promote VB application development.  It was copyrighted, but distribution was allowed.  arm7 for arm9 substitution to address ROM compability with flash cart kernels seemed to be treated the same way.  But once that arm file gets modified (Phantom Hourglass and now Guitar Hero) have we moved into a different situation?

Clear as mud...

Thansk guys (& gals?)

striderx


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## Spikey (Jun 26, 2008)

Both the Deoxys thing, and Guitar Hero: On Tour things are illegal. For GHT, some sort of patch would need to be made for it to be okay. For the Deoxys tutorial, instead of posting the code from the file, you should be telling people memory addresses that need to be changed to what without actually using any code.

Hope this post was useful.

EDIT: Samutz put the arm file thing pretty well "its like using a cracked exe". Hence why that shouldn't be allowed. And as far as the code is concerned, the key for signing Wii games is illegal, so too should actually posting lines of code from a file inside a copyrighted file. There are ways around these things, like I previously mentioned, so do it.


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## Frederica Bernkastel (Jun 26, 2008)

Oh well,
I guess I missed the deoxys hack...
why can't people just do the hack and make ips patches for the games?


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## arctic_flame (Jun 26, 2008)

JPH said:
			
		

> The Pokemon Deoxys hack guide clearly showed copyrighted code, and it was removed.
> 
> Oh, clearly the data that's transmitted freely by nintendo at their events is illegal to share. And some hex digits which mean nothing, it wasn't code, it was raw data which got trasmitted, anyone with a wireless card could have grabbed them
> 
> QUOTE(Urza @ Jun 26 2008, 08:26 AM) edit: Fuck it. This board's management has gone down the drain. No fucking point anymore.



For once, I'd have to agree. This is as laughable as when I posted the common key converted to Decimal. (and it got modded)
1. Numbers cannot be illegal. Next time, If I subtracted one from the key and said "key-1 = the key converted to decimal" what would happen? nothing. 
2. You'd have to write a program to convert it back- no online converters would handle a number that big.


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## Deleted User (Jun 26, 2008)

SpikeyNDS said:
			
		

> Both the Deoxys thing, and Guitar Hero: On Tour things are illegal.



The legality of this issue needs to be determined by which country's laws GBAtemp and the user are governed under.


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## Destructobot (Jun 26, 2008)

The server is in France, so I'd guess that French law applies.


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## Deleted User (Jun 26, 2008)

so in that case the ROM Hacking forum should be closed then since it will be against French law.


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## Destructobot (Jun 27, 2008)

Another way of looking at it is that everything is legal until their lawyers send you a letter.


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## gratefulbuddy (Jun 27, 2008)

I think this is going to turn into another "Is this legal?" thread.


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## striderx (Jun 26, 2008)

Could someone please explain how the forum rules have been applied regarding hacking two recent ROMs?

A topic with specific info needed to hack *Guitar Hero: On Tour *seems to be allowed.  In it pointers to hacked files are clearly included.

http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=92205

In the *Pokemon Deoxys Event ROM *topics, hex strings were included and resulted in them being removed by the moderator.

http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=92283

Why the difference?  How is a posting to a hacked ARM9 file any different than the Deoxys info?  Did the Deoxys author just need to find a host offsite to be okay?

Just curious...

striderx


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## Deleted User (Jun 27, 2008)

Destructobot said:
			
		

> Another way of looking at it is that everything is legal until their lawyers send you a letter.




in which case the Deoxys topic should be reposted


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## FAST6191 (Jun 27, 2008)

I wrote up a quick and dirty law as I understand it thread here:
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=92521

Personally I would not have removed it (partially as a great deal of my stuff could be taken down under such things and partially as I would argue it falls under fair use)  although the hacked arm9 could be considered unless it was a patch (the whole binary is not needed and has little educational/informational merit in the present form) but this is why we are having this debate.


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## T-hug (Jun 27, 2008)

I did try to untrash the post in the pokemon thread but it would not restore.  
As for the legality issues, we have never recieved any kind of cease or threats from anyone for as long as the site has been ROM free, so I see no problem with lines of code unless we are specifially asked to remove them.
If you are unsure, check with staff before you post.


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## striderx (Jun 27, 2008)

As intitator of this topic I really appreciate the civil and rational discussion that's taking place and the contributions by everyone...              even Urza.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Thanks...

striderx


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