# Homeless Beating: Six Police Officers Suspended in Calif.



## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 3, 2011)

Kelly Thomas was approached by Fullerton police officers responding to reports of cars being burglarized in the area on July 5. In a surveillance video taken aboard a public transportation bus, two passengers say officers had pounded the 37-year-old Thomas in the face and tased him six times.

One of the passengers is heard saying, “They beat him up, and then all the cops came and they hog tied him, and he was like, ‘Please God, please dad!’”

Thomas, who suffered severe head and neck injuries, died in a hospital five days later.[/p]



http://www.christianpost.com/news/homeless...6/"]Source

Another day, another episode of life starring killer cops.

Edit: Changed the format to what was required in the template.

UPDATE (9/21/11): There has been a major update in the case. Fullerton County D.A. Tony Rackaukas has charged two of the six officers involved with Kelly Thomas's death with murder and manslaughter, respectively. More information can be learned here:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011...er-charges.html

The charges are entirely insufficient.


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## Dangy (Aug 3, 2011)

F the police.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 3, 2011)

Dangy said:
			
		

> F the police.


Dude, it ain't the police force themselves, it is a corrupt person(group of people). Geze, you discriminate and probably hate the police don't you.

You see, there are crooked cops out there, but not all police are the same, so how about you think about what you said there. They die for you as well, so don't go saying they are bad.


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## ByteMunch (Aug 3, 2011)

Suspended. For murder. And nothing will come of this. It will happen again. And again. Fuck the police.


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 3, 2011)

Another example that shows how retarded the american police can be.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 3, 2011)

SimpyDsi said:
			
		

> Suspended. For murder. And nothing will come of this. It will happen again. And again. Fuck the police.


Fuck the criminals. It seems you people only like criminals, not the police. Geze, what has the world gone to.

EDIT: And, how many criminals do you think have been released from jail for murder, or even more murders.  

It is quite suprising that people only bring up news about a cop killing a man, not criminals.


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## Shoat (Aug 3, 2011)

And that's why they should run full psychological tests on every single person who ever becomes a cop (or any other job that allows you to carry a weapon).

If a person shows signs of being a violent asshole, they get told to GTFO and look for another job instead of being handed lots of authority and a weapon.


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## Nathan Drake (Aug 3, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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The police are messed up all over the US. The number of good cops is outweighed by the number of cops that just don't give a shit and do what they want, since the repercussions are lessened to such a great extent for a police officer due to them having the ability to claim whatever they want with it being taken as the almighty truth. The cops where I am abuse their power like there's no tomorrow, and cops just a city over are notorious for killing black men whenever they have an excuse to draw their gun and shoot.


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## WiiUBricker (Aug 3, 2011)

This is what the american police have done to a man:






They should be locked in prison for murder.


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## ByteMunch (Aug 3, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Could you remind me what crime he commited that justified a death sentence without trial? Thankyouverymuch.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 3, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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The police are actually under no obligation to protect you. The Supreme Court even agrees with this; for example, they were not held responsible for enforcing a restraining order against an abusive husband, which resulted in the death of his three children: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales

This is also not simply a matter of a "corrupt group" of police officers. This manner of brutality is part and parcel of their entire procedure. I would ask you to do a casual search of "police brutality" in the Google news aggregator. You will quickly see that incidents like these happen much more often than you think. A similar manner of events also occurred in Pittsburgh, where a black youth was beaten for holding a Mountain Dew bottle in his jacket (they suspected it was a gun, and they did not identify themselves as police officers).
http://newsone.com/nation/associatedpress1...tsburgh-police/

In my opinion, the image of the police that you hold is nothing more than a media-sponsored myth.

Edit: Who in the world moved this to "Off-topic chat"? This was a current event, and I posted it accordingly in the "User-submitted news" section. A current event regarding police brutality should not be relegated to something "Off-topic".


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## Nebz (Aug 3, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Agreed but we'll see what whoever has to say or do about it. Maybe because it's wrapped in the spoiler and not the usual code...?


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 4, 2011)

Nebz said:
			
		

> Agreed but we'll see what whoever has to say or do about it. Maybe because it's wrapped in the spoiler and not the usual code...?


Well, that might be the case. But I've posted other news articles in almost the exact same way and they've never been moved before. Locked or shut down, maybe, but never moved. If that is indeed the case, I'll change it immediately.


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## Snailface (Aug 4, 2011)

Here's some cellphone footage that was at the scene but not the actual beating. You can hear the guy screaming "Dad!"* though. Really sad stuff.

*his dad was a retired officer BTW

[youtube]1ljYNgLnpxM[/youtube]


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 4, 2011)

Changed the format. I think it's closer to what is required this time. Hopefully this can now be moved back to the appropriate section. If it is not moved, I want to know why immediately.

@Snailface: Thank you for finding that video. I thought that it was in the possession of the police, but clearly I was wrong.
Edit: The video I am thinking of was street surveillance footage, not the cellphone video.


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## GreatZimkogway (Aug 4, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Can we get this idiot out of here?  Stop being blind, this shit is happening every day across the country.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 4, 2011)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Can we get this idiot out of here?  Stop being blind, this shit is happening every day across the country.


There's no need to expel him. If he really wishes to believe that the police play a progressive role in society, let him talk all he wants. So far though, he has provided no evidence to the contrary. In this regard he, and others of his ilk should either put up or shut up.

Edit: _Still_ waiting for this to be moved back to "User-submitted" news.


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## dice (Aug 4, 2011)

With all due respect, you can _continue_ to wait for the thread to be moved back for an eternity unless the staff member who moved it responds to your request (they will soon enough I presume) with an explanation or decides that their actions should be reversed. _It hasn't even been 24 hours yet since this thread was moved so calm down._ I personally think that we need to split the USN into two sections (gaming and "real life") but that's another discussion, also if you were a long time member you'd know that such threads used to be posted in, but like I said be a little more patient for a response from that person.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 4, 2011)

Understood. I will calm down. I am sorry if I caused an unnecessary ruckus. I am impatient simply because I received absolutely no explanation as to why the thread was moved in the first place.


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## RchUncleSkeleton (Aug 4, 2011)

Yes I saw this on the news the other day and it total garbage....I just knew the police weren't going to be convicted of murder, which is bull crap! Police should be held responsible for their actions just like everyone else. I've had friends who have had the book thrown at them and are continually accused of things they did not do, the justice system is just itching to throw them in lockup but when it's a police officer, they pretend they saw nothing. 

We need to get rid of our entire system of government and let our country really be run "by the people for the people"

Eliminate all of the unnecessary spending and the ridiculous salaries paid to political fat cats whom both do nothing and make sure nothing gets done. That alone will fix our "Nation Debt". There needs to be an uprising and it needs to happen soon!


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## Vulpes Abnocto (Aug 4, 2011)

dice said:
			
		

> With all due respect, you can _continue_ to wait for the thread to be moved back for an eternity unless the staff member who moved it responds to your request (they will soon enough I presume) with an explanation or decides that their actions should be reversed. _It hasn't even been 24 hours yet since this thread was moved so calm down._ I personally think that we need to split the USN into two sections (gaming and "real life") but that's another discussion, also if you were a long time member you'd know that such threads used to be posted in, but like I said be a little more patient for a response from that person.




Actually, the report was sort of....mis-routed. (see report section for explanation)
So I've returned the thread to it's starting point.


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## TheDarkSeed (Aug 4, 2011)

It's shit like this that makes me really pissed off!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hate it when the police force abuses their power. They do something unjust like this and get no more than a slap on the wrist? If 6 regular people did this, the penalty would be much worse. 

Seriously, there should be some type of mental health screening prior to joining a Police Department to prevent having crazy fucks like them doing something very stupid.


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## Zetta_x (Aug 4, 2011)

The simple minded people are funny


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## koimayeul (Aug 4, 2011)

all officers implied belong to jail, they better not just get suspended for a murder.. sick idiots


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## dice (Aug 4, 2011)

Vulpes Abnocto said:
			
		

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I tend not to tread on other staff members toes until they get the chance of reply (unless there's an immediate need to reverse the actions made). As I said it hadn't been one day since said actions were made. With that said I have since caught up on the report and understand your decision to act on this.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 4, 2011)

I don't denie that there are crooked cops out there, but what I am trying to say is when you say "fuck the cops" or what ever insult you throw at them, you are basically saying that all of them are like that.

You see, my father was in the police force. He isn't a bad person. He helped society. He was also in the AirForce, for that matter. What just ticks me off is when people try to say that all cops, or military, are bad. Are you saying my father was an evil crook who did things bad? Well guess what he saw one of the most horrific things that the world could do.

You see, you are insulting men and women who are doing jobs that others in the world would hate doing, but these men and women are doing it for you. So, if you people insult them, fine be that way. Just remember that you also insulting family members who are risking their lives for society.

EDIT: And yes, I do believe that someone who has commited murder should go to prison for life. However, since their are people out their who think other wise, they are able to be released. This isn't my fault, blame the criminals. There are many criminals out there.

And, when a police man commits a crime beyond all crimes, I don't consider them police men of my nation anymore.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 4, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> I don't denie that there are crooked cops out there, but what I am trying to say is when you say "fuck the cops" or what ever insult you throw at them, you are basically saying that all of them are like that.
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> You see, you are insulting men and women who are doing jobs that others in the world would hate doing, but these men and women are doing it for you. So, if you people insult them, fine be that way. Just remember that you also insulting family members who are risking their lives for society.


The last thing I will do is suggest that your father was corrupt, or that he wasn't a "good cop". My own criticism of the police does not concern them individually, but the institution as a whole; this means viewing it as a sledgehammer appendage of the US state (since we're speaking of American police). It is thoroughly racist, corrupt, and reactionary. They defend private property far more effectively than they do people, like when the state called for the New Orleans police to stop the rescue operations and stop "looting" during the Katrina disaster. This is not even to speak of the massacre at the Tanziger bridge.

In every historical epoch of the capitalist system, they have turned against the masses and aided the bourgeoisie. Nothing demonstrates this better than the struggle for black civil rights during the 1960s. Since the US state itself is itself run for the ruling classes, they must be viewed unsparingly in this context.

Of course, I won't suggest that what I've said here is the end of the matter. But to sum up: Even if some cops are not subjectively corrupt or racist, the core function _of the institution itself_ is to repress the poor and keep them from pursuing their class interests. They must be opposed in all respects, period.

@Vulpos: How can I access this "explanation"? Or maybe I cannot access it. I'm just curious to know how it was misrouted.


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## Sheimi (Aug 4, 2011)

I hope those cops involved get kicked off the police force for good. Hell, they should be tried for murder...

I hate the police in the US. After seeing some of this shit they did to people when they didn't do anything bad is enough to make you sick to your stomach. Makes me feel like they won't protect me.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 4, 2011)

Sheimi said:
			
		

> I hope those cops involved get kicked off the police force for good. Hell, they should be tried for murder...
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> I hate the police in the US. After seeing some of this shit they did to people when they didn't do anything bad is enough to make you sick to your stomach. Makes me feel like they won't protect me.
> Well, one thing I hate is that they never seem the catch the speeders on the roads. That is what ticks me off.
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Well, I have seen pretty bad stuff related to police in other countries, such as Iraq and Pakistan(They are really horrible).

And, actually all police who are corrupt like these people automatically are kicked off if they do any crime at all. It is in the agreement.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> And, actually all police who are corrupt like these people automatically are kicked off if they do any crime at all. It is in the agreement.


No, they are not. Many cops who are accused of or called out for police brutality hardly ever get so much as a suspension. The incident in Pittsburgh concerning Jordan Miles (which I referred to earlier in the thread) left him with a swollen melon for a face. The cops who made him that way did not receive any penalties at all, even though they were clearly in the wrong. What they had thought was a "gun" was actually a Mountain Dew bottle. I would also ask you to research such cases that take place in the city of Los Angeles. It is much worse. I hope you will remember the outcome of the Rodney King incident.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburgh...s/s_735421.html

Please stop trying to attribute the image of rosy wings to the stark reality of the US police. It is irritating only in that it is not the truth.

Edit: The shooting of Oscar Grant in 2009 is another example. His killer, Johannes Mehserle (a cop, of course), only got two years. He is now out on parole.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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You have a family member that is in the Police Force, if not yourself, is that right? ..or maybe you're defending the broken system because you hope to become a cop someday. 

I can't lie when I say that not all cops are murderers, but they are all criminals in their own right. In case you have yet to have noticed... It seems that if you have a badge, you think so highly of yourself. The majority of cops, if not all, are corrupt as well. May not let drug dealers get away, but they don't exactly keep the peace either. 

Nobody is defending criminals, so don't get ahead of yourself. The reason cops get more attention is because they're supposed to be defenders of the weak and to keep the peace and uphold the law. Now-a-days you get a few stories about cops killing a man for no reason. (Which was what they pretty much did here.) I view cops not as an enemy, but not a friend either.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

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Aren't they the ones who risk their lives to keep peace?

I mean, of course their are corrupt cops out their, but you are acting like the whole police force is bad. And, most reasons why cops start going bad is because of mental state. Police have to deal with dirty. I mean, arent they the ones who are risking their lives?

Many cops have been killed for defending society. Don't you give them credit? I don't see people thanking the police for saving them, I only see people blaming them.

Now, isn't that right?


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## kai445 (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Aren't they the ones who risk their lives to keep peace?
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Let me see if I'm framing your argument correctly.

Step 1. Become a police officer.
Step 2. Beat a homeless man to death for no reason.
Step 3. ???
Step 4. You're innocent, because police get killed all the time for defending society and you put your life on the line every day.

I see you put a lot of thought into it, give yourself a big pat on the back and drink to that.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

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Thank you for being so ignorant for ignoring my post. I pat your back as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




As I say all the time "Blame only the one who has done the action, not the people who are in the group with the person has done the action".


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Many cops have been killed for defending society. Don't you give them credit? I don't see people thanking the police for saving them, I only see people blaming them.
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No, it is not right. I think I have responded to these and other similar claims made by you at least twice before, and you continue to ignore me. As I have already said: It is the _police institution_ that is thoroughly corrupt. Taking each individual cop on a case-by-case basis will only slow down the means by which we arrive at the correct conclusion.

The police largely do not protect the masses, nor are they legally obligated to do so. They indifferently and brutally enforce the laws of the bourgeois state, which puts them into irreconcilable conflict with both the working class and the petty-bourgeoisie. Even if "some" are motivated by heroic ideals, they live by a code of silence (the "Blue Code of Silence" or the "Blue Wall") that protect the wrongdoing of their fellow cops. They do not deserve any "credit" for this. True, they are not completely useless. Sometimes they prosecute members of the ruling class, escort old ladies across the street, or even prevent incidents involving drunken driving. But their core social function is to defend class society and the private property of those in power. Keeping this in mind, they must be opposed at all costs. In short: "People" blame the police because they largely escape their "responsibility" in "saving" "civilians." This is because of this one vital fact: _In actuality they are above the law._

Bearing this in mind, it is only logical to conclude that the masses "put their lives on the line" just as much, if not far more than the police do. I'm sure Oscar Grant and Rodney King would agree.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

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I have read what you said, and ouch those comments you made would just hurt my fathers feelings.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I agree that the military does put their lives on the line, but the police do their jobs. 


Look, I don't know what your opinion would be on the police force. Police forces have saved many children(poor ones) from danger, and you still think that they only defend the classes? I must say, what do you expect of them when there is so much that they can do?

EDIT: And, I am not going to argue any more because so many people are just not listening to what I say. I have listened to you all, I know there are bad cops, and I have never denied it, but since you aren't listening to me, it isn't really a smart idea to argue with ignorance, so I am just going to leave this topic.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> I have read what you said, and ouch those comments you made would just hurt my fathers feelings.
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We listened to what you said. I did, as well. Unfortunately, the ignorance is your own. You have a libidinal tie to a false idea that comes from the deepest trumpets of bourgeois society. By all means, leave the topic. I invite you to return, once you possess evidence that actually supports your argument. But I expect that I shouldn't hold my breath on that one.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

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This... right here. That's the greatest sign of ignorance that has come from you thus far. I'm willing to bet you that NO ONE here actually hates ALL cops. They're just upset over an innocent man being beaten and then DYING in the hospital bed 5 days later.  ..or have you forgotten that this was what the article was about? Cops who mercilessly BEAT an innocent homeless man to death while he was crying out for his father. 

Can you justify this? This is a bad image for the police and should be taken seriously. A suspension is not a just enough punishment for how cruel these men were. Then there's the 'witnesses' who said what happened that didn't do anything. The whole world is full of corruption. No one is saying the whole entire police force should be burned at the stake for this. NOBODY.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

Mchief298 said:
			
		

> Please DO NOT respond, for you will be wasting your time and mine.


Let him respond however he chooses. He's not a troll. He's simply offering an emotionally felt argument that happens to be factually wrong.


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## machomuu (Aug 5, 2011)

Hey, Megaman, Mcheif, and Royal, you've derailed us into Neptune, let's try to get back on topic.


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## Nujui (Aug 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Hey, Megaman, Mcheif, and Royal, you've derailed us into Neptune, let's try to get back on topic.


TBH I didn't see any Off topic stuff in there post.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

@machomuu:  As far I as I can see, we are still on Earth. An instance of police violence will inevitably bring us to question the institution itself, since it is impossible to address these cases in isolation from one another. In short, I do not agree that it is off topic.


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## Izzy011 (Aug 5, 2011)

I hate how the bad cops can do asinine things like brutally attacking innocent people and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD1eOEItcmg
without ever getting serious punishment except for getting suspended from the police force.


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## machomuu (Aug 5, 2011)

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Nope, my visor got foggy, I thought this was a different thread.  Please forgive me, though I do not deserve.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Okay, I couldn't resist coming back in.

Look, I understand people get attached to dogs but that's no excuse to drive over 100 miles an hour and endanger other people. If I have to choose between your dog and my kid, I choose my kid, hands down.

Also, it is also the mans fault for freaking out. If he would have told the police man what was happening, then he could have saved the dogs life.

Also, another thing, it is an animal! IF THERE WAS A CHILD IN ANOTHER CARE AND THE GUY RAN INTO THAT ONE, WHO WOULD YOU CARE ABOUT THE DOG OR THE CHILD!?

Then, the other point is, he should have called the vet. They would have told him what to do, and they wouldn't have told him to get to the vet for they would have known it would be to late.

So, argue with me or not?


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## machomuu (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Okay, I couldn't resist coming back in.
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I don't see how one can find a dog's life to be less than a humans, they're both animals and nothing really makes one better than the other, imo that is just.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> Please forgive me, though I do not deserve.


A mistake is a mistake, and one as minor as this deserves to be fully forgiven.

@RoyalCardMan: True, dogs are objectively lower on the totem pole than humans are. But your analogy is full of it. There was no child in danger here, a dog was. Did it occur to you that the driver may have been driving it to a vet or a hospital when he was pulled over? And your contention that the driver was hiding the dog is also full of it. When the driver stepped out of the car, it was all he was talking about. At 00:52-54, the officer callously says: "You can get another one [dog]". Later, he asks, "What are you on?" Wasn't it abundantly clear? He was in hysterics.

You clearly did not watch the video.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

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*sigh*
Oh, can we have a little more common sense? Here is the deal.

Okay, take these instances.

1. Kill both a family and a dog.

2. Kill a dog.

Okay, if you think one dog is worth more than a family of 4-10, I am going to cry.

And if you cared only about your dog, no other human being, you are pretty selfish in my opinion.


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## JoostinOnline (Aug 5, 2011)

machomuu said:
			
		

> I don't see how one can find a dog's life to be less than a humans, they're both animals and nothing really makes one better than the other, imo that is just.


Exactly!  It's not like only humans having a soul makes a difference!  Wait a minute, YES IT DOES!


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## machomuu (Aug 5, 2011)

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I'm not posting about the scenario of a few lives to one but rather to one life overall.  Plus I don't have a dog.

Also, you can't prove dogs don't have souls, I don't know why people say that.

I've said my piece, that is all.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

Please read my previous response to him. He is enforcing a flawed analogy and overlooking evidence that damages his unsupported claims.

Also, we are now getting off-topic discussing this video, but I do not know how to bring it back. It is enough to point out that RoyalCardMan's arguments on the Youtube video have the fortification of melted marshmallows.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

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How is it legit to talk about which life is more precious(This is only one part of the equation)? The legit part is the scenerio.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




So, I will respect your opinion. I am Catholic, I think human life is more precious. What ever religion you are, I respect you.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> How is it legit to talk about which life is more precious(This is only one part of the equation)? The legit part is the scenerio.
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Are you this person? Or are you incapable of forming your own argument in this regard?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

Chupemehflehbleh, forget it.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

Legally speaking this isn't murder, it's manslaughter. I'm sure some responsible will loose their jobs. Not all the officer there were involved in the beating of him, but i saw one video were an officer strikes someone recording.

[youtube]PiNOjG-xlPw[/youtube]


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

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That is your opinion.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And I know it is copy and pasted. I must have forgotten to add quotes around it. My apologize for a mistype. From this point, you are merely feeding on tiny mistakes I make in order to "loosen" my argument.

How is my argument bogus? It is legit, and you know it. Don't try to turn it down just because of your bias opinion.

*COP KILLINGS*
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1666750,00.html

I think this will back up my argument if you think my other facts are "not enough".


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

TBH, if you form your opinion you need to have experience with the cities force. Certain cities are going to have higher or lower rates of "police fuckedupness". For anyone to make an opinion about their cities police force you would have to have had a fair amount of experience in situations WITH the police. A lot of you are sitting at your computers and don't do much else and don't see what is really going on. You just see what your blind eye wants to. I have had a fair amount of of altercations with the local police (from tickets, to getting rolled up on with the boys, and maybe a couple too many times in cuffs)department I believe, that I could then make an accurate depiction of the officers I encountered in my city.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> TBH, if you form your opinion you need to have experience with the cities force. Certain cities are going to have higher or lower rates of "police fuckedupness". For anyone to make an opinion about their cities police force you would have to have had a fair amount of experience in situatuions WITH the police. A lot of you are sitting at your computers and don't do much else and don't see what is really going on. You just see what your blind eye wants to. I have had a fair amount of of altercations with the local police (from tickets, to getting rolled up on with the boys, [size1]and maybe a couple too many times in cuffs[/size]department I believe, that I could then make an accurate depiction of the officers I encountered in my city.


Well, I have actually had the experience. So, my facts are legit.


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## Dangy (Aug 5, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> -snip'd video-



Those officers are idiots. How stupid can you be?


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Dangy said:
			
		

> gloweyjoey said:
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Um, excuse me? Did you know if the people were doing something illegal?

If they were, and if they are not cooperating, they have every right to use force. These videos are used to deceive people. Look, if you weren't there, don't even start judging.

EDIT: And, legally you are not suppose to record these type of things without permission, so the recorder deserved what he got.


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## wasim (Aug 5, 2011)

Snailface said:
			
		

> *his dad was a retired officer BTW


maybe its his dad who beat him up ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




why else would he scream *please dad* !


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

If you watch the video, they don't start telling people to leave until the guy becomes unresponsive. You can tell too, the cop with this guy in is hands has an "uh  oh" kinda look on him, when he shakes the guy, then everyone needs to leave cause they knew they done fucked up...


			
				RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> EDIT: And, legally you are not suppose to record these type of things without permission, so the recorder deserved what he got.


The officer has no right to strike at someone for recording a video. that is in-proper to say the least.


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## smile72 (Aug 5, 2011)

Yeah, I despise police.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> If you watch the video, they don't start telling people to leave until the guy becomes unresponsive. You can tell too, the cop with this guy in is hands has an "uh  oh" kinda look on him, when he shakes the guy, then everyone needs to leave cause they knew they done fucked up...
> 
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By law, the officer has all rights to attack if the person is not cooperating. The guy wasn't cooperating, you could tell(at least I could).

And, actually at the beginning it seemed as if the guy punched the officer, but they may have cut that out of the video just to make the video look like something else.


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## injected11 (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> *COP KILLINGS*
> http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1666750,00.html
> 
> I think this will back up my argument if you think my other facts are "not enough".


In what way does a cop killing in an unrelated incident justify 6 trained, armed officers beating and tazering an unarmed, mentally disabled homeless man into a coma that lead to his death?


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

injected11 said:
			
		

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So, he resisted arrest? That is a crime that can have a person punished. This could have happened to anyone. He stole a car, so he is a criminal.
See, you people support the criminals, it seems.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-644144


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## injected11 (Aug 5, 2011)

K. Now would you care to answer the question I actually asked?


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

injected11 said:
			
		

> K. Now would you care to answer the question I actually asked?


I would gladly answer to question, excuse me for ignoring it.

If you read all the posts, I was showing the police officers do risk their lives to save other people, not just by class. I was proving that police officers do actually care about the general public, including homeless and mental people.


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## injected11 (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Which still doesn't justify 6 officers (or 6 people of any profession) beating him to death.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

injected11 said:
			
		

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That isn't really what I was aiming at, but what the heck.

Look at my post that is very long and has a CNN source.

And, what world do people live in these days? Look, the world isn't as lolly jolly like we would want it to be. When a police man is facing trouble, he knows he has to do brutal force. The criminal isn't just going to go "Hey, okay arrest me".


Criminals these days are not as nice as they used to be(not saying they ever were). If you were trained to do certain things and were brought to this situation, what would you have done? You wouldn't know because you have never been in that situation.

So, justicifcation of ones actions really depends on what point of view and the situation. The man was resisting arrest, the cops acted in force, like they were supposed to do.

So, you are basically telling the police how to do their jobs, which they already know how to do.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Also, this took place in California, which I knew already was a bad state.
> I live in California, but I only have experience with my LOCAL department. But yeah California is known for like the most popular instance of police brutality(I shouldn't have to tell you which I'm referring to I'm sure you know which).
> 
> I've had more encounters with the police than i can count on my hands, but I've been let off the hook more times than I've "gotten what i deserve". When i was arrested in another city, the officer was fine until he found out i had a warrant(it sounds worse than it really is) He didn't know what it was for so he had to of assumed i could have been dangerous or on drugs, or mentally ill(which they didn't ask about until i got to the jail) I am a long haired, neck bearded nerd hippie with bags under my eyes, so i guess i can understand why they want to fuck with me. the second officer arrived and assumed the worst as well, cuffs were tight and i was roughly taken to the car. Once at the local jail, and the officers there found out why my failure to appear($100 ticket, its technically a misdemeanor though) was for they started laughing and joking about it and even let me help the with finger printing me. They had these new computers where its all digital and it was easy for them to mess up a lot. An hour later I was given my stuff back.QUOTE(RoyalCardMan @ Aug 4 2011, 10:16 PM) See, you people support the criminals, it seems.


Stop assuming. You are making an ASS out of U and ME.

I certainly am not supporting anyone but my own opinions. Just because someone thinks an incident is horrific does not automatically make that person a "supporter" of them. Say, I see a Neo Nazi member getting the shit beat out of him by the police, Im going to think it is unnecessary, but that doesnt not mean I support whatever it is this person does or has done in their past.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

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I have been to California, I know why the police act the way they do.

California is very known for crime(even Oregon is, and it ain't even funny). California is basically ruined(I am not going to even talk about the Californians moving to Oregon, dang it).

Well, look at it this way. If someone looks like they are on drugs, you want to test to be sure. You wouldn't want someone on the road using drugs(no offense to you).

Sometimes the police do have to be mean, to get the message accross that they don't want to be messed with.


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## injected11 (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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And yet again it doesn't answer my question.

And witnesses at the scene claimed he was not resisting. And burglarizing a car means breaking into it and steals items out of it, not stealing the car. There was also no proof he had done anything of the sort. You proclaim we support criminals, yet there is no proof of any crime except for what the officers did. Even if he had been resisting, excessive force does not even begin to describe what they applied.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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You're trying to justify a brutal attack. How messed up in the head are you? Why are you so intent on trying to make the cops, who in this case are wrong in every way, look so good? What do you get out of it? You look so ignorant that my brothers now seem smarter than you. This is ridiculous.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Mchief298 said:
			
		

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I may remind you that you should keep insults to yourself.

I am justifying a thing they did right. Your the one trying to make them look guilty. It is ridiculous that you are trying to prove people that are innocent guilty. I am not going to argue with you specifically because of how rude you can get, especially when you just don't listen to me.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> I may remind you that you should keep insults to yourself.
> 
> I am justifying a thing they did right. Your the one trying to make them look guilty. It is ridiculous that you are trying to prove people that are innocent guilty. I am not going to argue with you specifically because of how rude you can get, especially when you just don't listen to me.




You're justifying them attacking and killing an innocent man? He didn't do anything wrong. How was it right for the police to do that, and how do you think they can walk off innocent?

Will you, for once, take the time to actually answer that question? ..or can you not?


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> I have been to California, I know why the police act the way they do.
> 
> California is very known for crime(even Oregon is, and it ain't even funny). California is basically ruined(I am not going to even talk about the Californians moving to Oregon, dang it).
> 
> ...


This was my point really, buddy. He had no idea what my prior incidents were, he even said, it's "just for safety cause we don't know whats going on" and he really didn't. Oh and there was no testing done at all just questions.

Also sounds more like you're speaking about the meth problem.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Mchief298 said:
			
		

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Hmmm, so your saying resisting arrest is an innocent act? That is not how the law states it. 

As I said before, a police man(men) have full right to attack a man if he is resisting arrest. The man should have accepted it and waited till the trial. He was a suspect in a crime and he resisted arrested.

@gloweyjoey
Well, there is also more than the meth, but that is a major part of it.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Uhh... He wasn't resisting. Where did you see that he was? In what sense was he resisting arrest? Can you prove that to me? ..and under no right do the police have the permission to attack this guy, hogtie him, and put a tazer to him SIX times. You get that? SIX TIMES. They have a right to use force, but not lethal force unless there is a weapon involved. Which there was not.


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## Magmorph (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> So, you are basically telling the police how to do their jobs, which they already know how to do.


Yes, they obviously know how to do their job. All people who resist arrest should be bludgeoned to death violently by a mob of police.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Magmorph said:
			
		

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Was that a sarcastic statement?

Um, if you read the CNN news article I listed in my earlier post, you would have seen it. I ain't going to help you find info that is in front of you.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Yea, but witness reports say otherwise? Who should I listen to here? Hmmm....


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Mchief298 said:
			
		

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Witnesses can be bias you know.


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## injected11 (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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So can CNN, who wasn't there.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

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Not as biased as the lovely news networks you so often believe. You honestly think that a man who cries out to his father while being beaten to death would be resisting arrest? No..


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Mchief298 said:
			
		

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First of all, if a news channel was putting out false information, they would be sued definitely.

First of all, any criminal would cry out for help because he knows he has been caught. That is their trick. They make you feel bad for them, and then they strike.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> First of all, if a news channel was putting out false information, they would be sued definitely.
> 
> First of all, any criminal would cry out for help because he knows he has been caught. That is their trick. They make you feel bad for them, and then they strike.




You haven't read the whole story, have you? You just read what CNN put out there. You believe that what witnesses are saying are biased and false and that the news is correct. You believe the reports listed by the officers who killed the man.. I see who you are now. You make me sick. I'm done with this child. ..and I honestly feel bad for anyone who believe anything this kid has put out.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> As I said before, a police man(men) have full right to attack a man if he is resisting arrest. The man should have accepted it and waited till the trial. He was a suspect in a crime and he resisted arrested.


I think what you are forgetting here is that resisting arrest is a separate crime a person is charged with. At this point, yes he is resisting arrest but he has yet to be charged for resisting arrest, which a punishment would be decided by a Judge, depending on factors of the crime. But officers are allowed to use brute force when someone is resisting arrest, "attacking" people who are unarmed get in trouble, but in most cases, they don't know if they are armed or not because they are resisting.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Mchief298 said:
			
		

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And good bye to you my friend. Nice proving you wrong. Have a nice day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





@gloweyjoey
Yes, thank you for correcting me.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

I was also trying to make the point that every officer is going to be different as well. Once i was told to "stop resisting" because my arms were tense, it was cold, and i was nervous, but i wasn't resisting but to him, he saw it as me trying to resist him. I don't even know why i was put in cuffs either, they just let me go, oh wait i do know, they didn't know what to expect until they got everything straightened out. People judge books by their covers. People also judge a whole system on one or continuing incidents of failure with in the system. Take the Casey Anthony trial for instance, people are tried and majority of the time are convicted but people are also acquitted for heinous crimes everyday for lack of evidence, but when it's actually displayed in a high profile case, they will automatically say the system is a failure, while disregarding the rest of the legal world. I guess what I'm saying is, you cant say all cops are swine for this, you cant say all California cops are swine for this incident, and you cannot say all Fullerton cops are swine either. I do believe these officers did no intend to injure this man enough to but him in a coma and then die 5 days later which is manslaughter and not murder.


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## ByteMunch (Aug 5, 2011)

CNN and other media sites/networks going against the first hand witnesses have probably been paid off. BY THE STATE. And really, in America's position, this is not what they should be doing. Granted, a few grand off trillions isn't much, but every little helps.

@gloweyjoey I think they ment to fave "A bit of fun". Then they got carried away. Now he's dead and they should be in custody.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> That is your opinion.
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The evidence speaks for itself. Responding to a report of possible car theft, six cops confronted an unarmed mentally ill man, hogtied him, and beat him to death while he screamed for his father. His death is a product of the brutality of the police institution, which itself is controlled by the capitalist state. Their function is to indifferently enforce their laws, whether they be "fair" or not. Sometimes they even make it up as they go along. There is no excuse possible for such behavior. Furthermore, one does not need to be a cop in order to comment on thuggery and murder. If the cops are in the right, why hasn't the surveillance tape in their possession been released, a month after it happened?


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 5, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

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The evidence does speak for itself and it is not murder. Maybe second degree murder, but it would more likely be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter. The officers responding to the call about the burglaries did not head over to that area with the INTENT to kill someone, let alone this particular man. I also agree with you that there is no excuse for this behavior and if you read my posts, you might be able to comprehend that I believe this is a tragedy and should have never happened.

Furthermore, the two of you going on with each other is asinine. One is influenced by their blind following and the other is petty towards the other one out of spite for the other one being influenced by their following and are steadfast in their ways. Time to grow up kids.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> The evidence does speak for itself and it is not murder. Maybe second degree murder, but it would more likely be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter. The officers responding to the call about the burglaries did not head over to that area with the INTENT to kill someone, let alone this particular man. I also agree with you that there is no excuse for this behavior and if you read my posts, you might be able to comprehend that I believe this is a tragedy and should have never happened.
> I will admit that I have not read your previous posts in full. Unfortunately I also have no inclination to do so later, so I will confine my remarks to what you have said here. It is true that we cannot observe any "intent to murder" from the available evidence. What we need is a surveillance tape that is currently in the possession of the police. It has been a month since Thomas's killing, and it is still not available to the public. I can only imagine this is due to the fact that this has now been turned into a federal investigation. That having been said, you cannot seriously claim that five to six officers were unable to subdue a 138 pound man to an extent that lethal force was warranted. I would ask you to read witness testimony, which can be accessed here: http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/fulle...-beating-video/ The transcript might be easier to read than to watch. My main point is that so far, every piece of evidence points to, if not "intent,"_a brutal, unprovoked killing._ The fact that it may indeed be "mitigated" later into manslaughter does not speak particularly well of either your opinion regarding the law's lack of protection for people like Thomas, or the killer cops responsible. I may be so bold as to say to you: "Intent? Just look at the face of the deceased! It has gone from human to ground meat!"
> QUOTE(gloweyjoey @ Aug 5 2011, 01:17 PM) Furthermore, the two of you going on with each other is asinine. One is influenced by their blind following and the other is petty towards the other one out of spite for the other one being influenced by their following and are steadfast in their ways. Time to grow up kids.


It is my opponent who has refused to grow up. Everything I have said here has been backed up by currently accessible evidence, unlike RoyalCardMan, whose opinion no doubt comes from his libidinal and family ties to the police. Like most philistines, you are choosing to divorce yourself from the context of the argument and damn us both for arguing loudly about an important issue in society; it is a cowardly way of trying to seek a middle ground. Killings like this are becoming more and more commonplace, with the killers being acquitted, and statistically it is very observable. Given this fact, which I have based myself on from the beginning, you cannot now turn around and say that I am only operating out of "spite", or that I am "petty"; You cannot make those labels stick upon me.

The police institution is corrupt, racist, and reactionary. These specific traits did not, of course, appear out of thin air. The police themselves are but an appendage of the US state, which is dominated by the class interests of the wealthy. I have always viewed the police in this context because it is the only way to make some sense out of the madness. The police are not legally obligated to protect civilians, their chief social function is to protect private property, the laws of the wealthy, and in doing this it means repressing the poor. Deconstructing the social function of the police and keeping escalating poverty in mind is but the first step to understanding what we're even talking about. To sum up: Please take your semantics someplace else, because they are useless here.


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## RoyalCardMan (Aug 5, 2011)

_Post deleted my RoyalCardMan_.
_Reason: I am no longer in this argument. There is no reason - RCM._


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 5, 2011)

RoyalCardMan said:
			
		

> Again, I will say that is your opinion. If you do live in America, I respect your opinion, but I will disagree with it as well.
> 
> Uh, excuse me, don't tell us to take our evidence some where else just because it proves you wrong. If you do have a problem, report it to the moderators. If they think our posts should be deleted. If not, they will leave it as it is.


If it is simply my opinion, surely you have some means of establishing how my opinion does not jive with the established facts? On the other hand, I am glad you respect my opinion, since I "live in America." I would hate to think what you'd be saying if I was typing all of this from Canada, Germany or Timbuktu. I will only respect that you have _the ability to form an opinion_. In the meantime, I will dispense with the niceties. But I digress. 

You have not provided any evidence. You have provided _semantics,_ which is quite different than evidence. In the final instance, it comes down to context, and how much you are choosing to accept in your worldview. You are choosing to view Thomas's killing as an isolated incident, all the while justifying his beating and eventual death due to the fact that he was "resisting arrest." But this appraisal is incomplete, not because it apparently took six Fullerton cops to deliver lethal force to a 138-pound schizophrenic man, but because it omits any real observation of the police themselves, their history, and their social function. You have refused to take any of that into account. You simply reinterpret symbols and ignore those that are inconvenient, and declare that your opinion is relevant and therefore cannot be refuted. 

I ask this sincerely: Who are you trying to fool? Any cursory examination of the thread and your responses so far will not turn out in your favor. You are defending the indefensible. Even Thomas' father, a former sheriff's deputy, did not hesitate in seeing that this killing could not be simply attributed to resisting arrest.

I will not request that your posts will be deleted. Why should I? I have no reason to. I do not believe that you are a troll, just misguided. As ridiculous as your position is, it contributes to an important conversation that does not happen as often as it should. If the moderators view the thread and decide otherwise, that's their business.


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## Dangy (Aug 6, 2011)

RoyalCardMan just raised the bar of how ignorant people can be in my book. 

Also, on the topic of police: bit.ly/oUvM9A

Thought that was interesting.


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## jmanup85 (Aug 6, 2011)

I honestly cant believe one guy says it was justified of these cops to beat this man to death simply for "resisting arrest". Congratulations on being the dumbest person in this thread buddy. This is definitely manslaughter and they should indeed be charged with this crime, if not it shows just how corrupt the police force actually is in this fucked up country.


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## Giga_Gaia (Aug 6, 2011)

jmanup85 said:
			
		

> I honestly cant believe one guy says it was justified of these cops to beat this man to death simply for "resisting arrest". Congratulations on being the dumbest person in this thread buddy. This is definitely manslaughter and they should indeed be charged with this crime, if not it shows just how corrupt the police force actually is in this fucked up country.



Yeah, now it's not just that group, but the fact that they're only suspended means the rest of them are too.

No offence, but it doesn't matter what country, police are useless, all they do is hand over parking tickets and eat doughnuts. They should investigate crimes instead and give people temp jobs to give tickets, because let's face it, you don't need police training to hand tickets, even the dumbest person could do it.

In other words, the police doesn't defend anyone, they just hand over tickets and think they're above the law.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 6, 2011)

jmanup85 said:
			
		

> Congratulations on being the dumbest person in this thread buddy. This is definitely manslaughter...


There's no need to insult him. He was not a troll. The cops should be charged with murder, not manslaughter. And I think that the cops fit one of the criteria of murder law in California: http://www.shouselaw.com/murder.html#1.1


Spoiler



1.1. First-degree murder in California law

Under California law, there are three ways to be convicted of first-degree murder:

by committing the murder


using a destructive device or explosive, weapon of mass destruction, ammunition primarily designed to penetrate metal or armor, or poison, or


by lying in wait or by inflicting torture pursuant to Penal Code 206 PC California's torture law,


by killing in a way that is willful, deliberate, and premeditated, OR


by way of the felony-murder rule (that is, by committing a specifically enumerated felony that automatically turns any logically related death into first-degree murder, discussed below).5


Examples of first-degree murder include (but are not limited to):

going to someone's house intending to kill him/her, and


lying in wait for someone to return to his/her car in order to kill that individual, and


any murder that is perpetrated using a destructive device or explosive.


Of course, I do not really know for sure. I am no lawyer or legal scholar.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 6, 2011)

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They're shielded from that. The manufacturer of tazers/paralyzers is responsible for their effects on a human being, the devices are certified NOT to kill an ordinary human being unless said person had an underlying heart condition, in which case, the officer could not have been aware of it.

In the eyes of the law, even if they tazed him untill the batteries are dry, it's still manslaughter.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 6, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> They're shielded from that. The manufacturer of tazers/paralyzers is responsible for their effects on a human being, the devices are certified NOT to kill an ordinary human being unless said person had an underlying heart condition, in which case, the officer could not have been aware of it.
> 
> In the eyes of the law, even if they tazed him untill the batteries are dry, it's still manslaughter.


I understand that. The law clearly only acts as a shield for cops and not civilians in this regard. But he was not tased to death, he was _beaten_ to death. With fists and clubs. Of course, it is also true that tasers were used approximately six times during his beating.

Edit: Tasers can apparently still kill even if the victim did not have an underlying heart condition. This is not to mention that the number of taser-related deaths is growing each year.
http://www.ajconline.org/article/%20S0002-...2113-9/abstract


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## jmanup85 (Aug 6, 2011)

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Since they didnt have the intention to kill when they arrived its not muder. Its definitely manslaughter, and no offense but the guy deserves to be flamed for even mentioning that its ok to beat someone to death for resisting arrest. It wouldnt matter if his dad was the Pope to me, if i see bs I'm gonna call you out on it.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 6, 2011)

jmanup85 said:
			
		

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Resisting Arrest is a very dirty word. I'm not entirely sure what transpired, as I have not seen the tape, but resisting arrest can mean anything between "trying to run away" and "active assault on an officer", in the case of the latter, I would not mind in the slightest.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 6, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> ...I have not seen the tape...


Nobody has, really. One video is a cellphone video that only catches some audio (it wasn't pointed at the beating) and the other is a video made by a local bus that recorded eyewitness accounts. The "real" surveillance tape of the killing is in the possession of the police.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 6, 2011)

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You can't exactly deny the possibility that the man was thoroughly agressive and "had it comming" then, can you?


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## cwstjdenobs (Aug 6, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> You can't exactly deny the possibility that the man was thoroughly agressive and "had it comming" then, can you?



If they where that badly trained 6 well fed (and through what I've seen of police camera shows more likely than not very well fed body builder types) men could not restrain 1 homeless man without killing him, yes. It's not like there's a thin line between hitting someone enough to get coughs on them and beating the life out of someone.


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## injected11 (Aug 6, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> You can't exactly deny the possibility that the man was thoroughly agressive and "had it comming" then, can you?


The beatings and tazing supposedly continued well past the point when he was subdued and hogtied though. I can't deny the possibility that he was aggressive, but I really can't picture anyone as a threat to myself if they're crying and calling out for their father.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 6, 2011)

Foxi4 said:
			
		

> You can't exactly deny the possibility that the man was thoroughly agressive and "had it comming" then, can you?


Yes, I can. Every eyewitness has so far has consistently said that he was only sitting on a bench when he was confronted by the police. who were responding to an anonymous call complaining of a car burglary. He was unarmed. He only "resisted arrest" by running away from them. It is not even clear if they identified themselves as police officers to the victim. Six officers was not necessary to take down a 138 pound man. Lethal force was not warranted. There is a link to some witness statements earlier in the thread, if you wish to read them.

(I now have to be away for a couple of days)


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## ZAFDeltaForce (Aug 6, 2011)

I just hope justice is served


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## cwstjdenobs (Aug 6, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> Six officers was not necessary to take down a 138 pound man.



Just to add to this, I'm over 220 lbs, tall but not lanky, not fat or massively built. I can not see six average sized people having any real problems restraining me, let alone such a tiny fella. I could imagine they would have a need to give me a beating in the process of restraining me if I was in the mood to fight back, but once they have you hog tied what more can you do than shout abuse?


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 7, 2011)

cwstjdenobs said:
			
		

> Just to add to this, I'm over 220 lbs, tall but not lanky, not fat or massively built. I can not see six average sized people having any real problems restraining me, let alone such a tiny fella. I could imagine they would have a need to give me a beating in the process of restraining me if I was in the mood to fight back, but once they have you hog tied what more can you do than shout abuse?


I find that to be an interesting insight. I only wish that I had better knowledge of physics. I am only sure in the case of Kelly Thomas because the numbers are so obvious that they basically dictate the conclusion.

Off-topic: All this talk of weight makes me want to diet. And I do not have any weight trouble.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 7, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He was unarmed but he refused to let officers check to see if he was unarmed or not but in the video he is clearly resisting and it is anything but a gentle risistance. When someone tries to run away from police officers, or they resist them, they will believe you have done something wrong, why else would you run, or resist them. In the video he is clearly seen thrashing about with the officers so i can see how needed a couple of extra guys help subdue him is appropriate. Was it appropriate to taser him 5 times? No it wasn't. Was it appropriate of them to hold down his face on the pavement with their knee with enough force to break his neck? No it wasn't. was it appropriate to keep hitting him after he was hogtied?  No, it wasn't.

The officers assumed this man knew right from wrong, you are right. 

Yes there are instances of corruption in the system, it is way more blatant, or has been in previous years in other cities and states. With your logic of all police officers are biggots, we could also say all Catholics molest boys, all Jews love money, all Mormons have multiple wives and are pedos, all mexicans are lazy, all muslims blow themselves up, and all Christians spew ignorance and call American soldiers "fag gots" for defending the country that supports homosexuality.


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## injected11 (Aug 7, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> He was unarmed but he refused to let officers check to see if he was unarmed or not but in the video he is clearly resisting and it is anything but a gentle risistance. When someone tries to run away from police officers, or they resist them, they will believe you have done something wrong, why else would you run, or resist them. *In the video he is clearly seen thrashing about with the officers so i can see how needed a couple of extra guys help subdue him is appropriate.* Was it appropriate to taser him 5 times? No it wasn't. Was it appropriate of them to hold down his face on the pavement with their knee with enough force to break his neck? No it wasn't. was it appropriate to keep hitting him after he was hogtied?  No, it wasn't.


Did they finally release the tape from the police camera? If not, what video are you speaking of? The only videos I've been able to find were the witnesses explaining what happened on a city bus's camera, and one from the curb off to the side of the incident, where you don't see any of the action, just blinking squad cars and some audio.


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## Zerousen (Aug 7, 2011)

If he had Schizophrenia, isn't it possible that he had hallucinated the car to have been his or something like that? Also, just because he was around the area, it does not have enough proof that he was the one trying to steal the car, right? They didn't really need to go as far as to beat him to death, and honestly, I would try resisting if I could too if I was to be pushed down and tased, if he had even resisted, sounds hard when you have 6 policemen on you tasing you.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 7, 2011)

injected11 said:
			
		

> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a video i posted on like the 3rd page.


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## Schizoanalysis (Aug 8, 2011)

They should charge the police with hate crimes against Schizophrenics.


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## purplesludge (Aug 8, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> injected11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not the right video.


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## gloweyjoey (Aug 8, 2011)

purplesludge said:
			
		

> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://gbatemp.net/t303819-homeless-beatin...t&p=3815581
4th page. My bad.


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## amptor (Aug 8, 2011)

He's white, no wonder I didn't hear about it.  Can't play any race cards that way :|

Well all I can say is, there's some good and some bad.  The only cops I can have a conversation with are the really nice ones.  The rest have a stick shoved up their ass and probably were criminals before they joined the force.  So go figure.  

Cops are just regular people with a different job than we have.





			
				MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> Kelly Thomas was approached by Fullerton police officers responding to reports of cars being burglarized in the area on July 5. In a surveillance video taken aboard a public transportation bus, two passengers say officers had pounded the 37-year-old Thomas in the face and tased him six times.
> 
> One of the passengers is heard saying, “They beat him up, and then all the cops came and they hog tied him, and he was like, ‘Please God, please dad!’”
> 
> ...


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## purplesludge (Aug 8, 2011)

gloweyjoey said:
			
		

> purplesludge said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant that it is not the Kelly Thomas video.


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## DxEggman (Aug 8, 2011)

From personal experience, the police are bullshit. I've had a person basically kidnap my girlfriend.
Called the police.
They didn't help

A few months later, I get a phone call from my girlfriend telling me the same guy is there looking for me saying he's going to beat me to death.
Called the police.
They helped....a little bit. Basically just told him to stay away, even though he lived down the road, and was the type to not care what the cops say

Old landlord came to my work to harass me. 
Went to the police station to get them to help me get this guy to not harass me.
They said "We can't do anything".

Every time I ask the cops for help/protection they just shrug at me. Fuck em.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Aug 8, 2011)

purplesludge said:
			
		

> I meant that it is not the Kelly Thomas video.
> Yeah, I read that Thomas was shirtless when he was confronted. Even so, the people in the video were only thrashing about because they were getting beaten. The police only stopped because they were aware that they were being recorded.
> 
> @gloweyjoey: Your sympathies for the police are misplaced, in my opinion. They do not deserve the right of way here. You analogy is also quite inadequate. _The police are not a distinct race of people or a religion_. The police institution is a corrupt appendage of the state.
> QUOTE(amptor @ Aug 7 2011, 09:39 PM) Cops are just regular people with a different job than we have.


Except for the fact that their jobs and the power they possess is not at all regular, though how they get away with it has almost become routine. In most of these brutality cases, the cops responsible get off completely, because they are essentially above the law. _It can be said that getting away with police brutality is a form of white collar crime_.The media has been one of the police's most uncritical parrots, especially in the recent shooting of Michael Duggan in Britain. The fact that the Thomas's killers got suspended is actually quite a rare development.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Sep 24, 2011)

There has been a major update in the case. Fullerton County D.A. Tony Rackaukas has charged two of the six officers involved with Kelly Thomas's death with murder and manslaughter, respectively. More information can be learned here:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011...er-charges.html

The charges are entirely insufficient.


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## AlanJohn (Sep 24, 2011)

Policemen act like they're all-powered assholes.
Oh wait, they are.


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