# Could an Nintendo 64 classic mini be the answer to n64 emulation?



## cpjay (Oct 10, 2017)

Just got me wondering, hypethetically if Nintendo are to release a Nintendo 64 classic mini next year, could this be the answer to the current shitty state of n64 emulation? 
If someone were able to dump this hypothetically n64 classic mini and develop it for windows then we could have the perfect emulator assuming Nintendo follow the same methods as the nes and snes classic minis.
Would beat playing a the blur of a mess original n64.
And then hopefully recreate the n64 mini with a raspberry Pi?
What do You guys recon?


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## the_gamer (Oct 10, 2017)

Because:
1. The emulators in NESC and SNESC are perfect and run every game smoothly without problems?
2. Reverse-Engineering is a piece of cake?


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## DinohScene (Oct 10, 2017)

Reason why N64 emulation is so difficult is cause of the complexity of the system.

Basically, don't expect N64 emulation to be perfect for another 10-15 years.
I highly doubt Nintendo will bring a N64 mini to the market but.. stranger things have happened.


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## johnbus (Oct 10, 2017)

Nintendo has been railing agaist emulation of all kinds for decades, and are only recently cashing in on them while hypocritically (allegedly) using ROMs, code, and techniques developed by their fans who try to preserve Nintendo games.

If a N64 Classic is ever released, I'm expecting it to be a stripped down and slightly modified PJ64. There's no reason to expect they are much better at emulating the thing than anyone else at this point.


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## ihaveahax (Oct 10, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Reason why N64 emulation is so difficult is cause of the complexity of the system.
> 
> Basically, don't expect N64 emulation to be perfect for another 10-15 years.
> I highly doubt Nintendo will bring a N64 mini to the market but.. stranger things have happened.


I heard also it's because emulators mostly focused on playability and not accuracy.


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## laudern (Oct 10, 2017)

There already is an answer, but not an emulating answer. 

Buy a n64 and ever drive 64. It plays 99% of n64 roms 100% perfectly. Not through emulation, but native hardware. Sure there is a slight financial outlay, but the results are 99% perfect. 

In regards to the n64 mini and it's ability to emulate n64 games, who knows? 

Can someone fill me in as to how the wii/wii u emulate 64 games? Is the built in emulator in the wii/u custom made for the specific n64 games that are released on the nintendo shop? So if another non nintendo shop n64 is injected, the emulator isn't programmed to play that specific game and as such has poor emulation?

If the above is the case, I wouldn't hold out much hope for the n64 classic.


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## cpjay (Oct 10, 2017)

laudern said:


> There already is an answer, but not an emulating answer.
> 
> Buy a n64 and ever drive 64. It plays 99% of n64 roms 100% perfectly. Not through emulation, but native hardware. Sure there is a slight financial outlay, but the results are 99% perfect.
> 
> ...



Yeah this is what I'm using. Only problem is the smeared image ahah which is why it would be great to have a n64 classic mini because that would deliver at least 720p without having to ultrahdmi mod costing an arm and a leg.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Oct 10, 2017)

johnbus said:


> Nintendo has been railing agaist emulation of all kinds for decades, and are only recently cashing in on them while hypocritically (allegedly) using ROMs, code, and techniques developed by their fans who try to preserve Nintendo games.
> 
> If a N64 Classic is ever released, I'm expecting it to be a stripped down and slightly modified PJ64. There's no reason to expect they are much better at emulating the thing than anyone else at this point.


They've already made their own emulators for the Wii and Wii U that play better than any PC emulator

But that being the case, I'm guessing that since those haven't been RE'd yet, a potential future N64 mini wouldn't be either


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## ShadowOne333 (Oct 10, 2017)

If the N64 Mini becomes a thing next year, I highly doubt it will be the holy grail of N64 emulation.
I mean... Just look at Nintendo's latest tries.

The Wii VC was really bare bones, only playing the basic games that you'd come to expect out of the machine.
Wii U VC was a step in the right direction, it has a really nice emulation, but sadly there's still a lot games do not work due to the lack of proper INI files, not to mention that you are stuck with the default options Nintendo gives you with it (gamma correction, 4:3 aspect ratio, etc).

I highly doubt Nintendo would put any kind of real effort into making an N64 emulator that plays more than 50% of the library accurately.


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## johnbus (Oct 10, 2017)

cpjay said:


> Yeah this is what I'm using. Only problem is the smeared image ahah which is why it would be great to have a n64 classic mini because that would deliver at least 720p without having to ultrahdmi mod costing an arm and a leg.



You could get a S-Video cable for the N64, and a S-Video to HDMI converter box to plug into an HDTV. It wouldn't be super expensive, and you could use the same setup on an NES and SNES since they apparently use the same connector.


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## RustInPeace (Oct 10, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Reason why N64 emulation is so difficult is cause of the complexity of the system.
> 
> Basically, don't expect N64 emulation to be perfect for another 10-15 years.
> I highly doubt Nintendo will bring a N64 mini to the market but.. stranger things have happened.



It's kind of funny because N64 is not exactly the paragon of masterful graphics, I know there's more to emulation, but still. Need the perfect N64 Emulator for beautiful moments like this.


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## Juggalo Debo (Oct 10, 2017)

I just use my day1 n64 and my everdrive64.... best purchase for the console besides the library of games I've bought.....


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## DinohScene (Oct 10, 2017)

RustInPeace said:


> It's kind of funny because N64 is not exactly the paragon of masterful graphics, I know there's more to emulation, but still. Need the perfect N64 Emulator for beautiful moments like this.



100% perfect SNES emulation requires a rather beefy PC.
And that's just SNES.
A 16 bit console with a less then 10 Mhz CPU?


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## cpjay (Oct 10, 2017)

johnbus said:


> You could get a S-Video cable for the N64, and a S-Video to HDMI converter box to plug into an HDTV. It wouldn't be super expensive, and you could use the same setup on an NES and SNES since they apparently use the same connector.



Should give this a try, no input lag?


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## the_randomizer (Oct 10, 2017)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> They've already made their own emulators for the Wii and Wii U that play better than any PC emulator
> 
> But that being the case, I'm guessing that since those haven't been RE'd yet, a potential future N64 mini wouldn't be either



Debatable, PC N64 emulators can play Resident Evil 2, Rogue Squadron and even Battle for Naboo if you use the right plugins, notably GlideN64 with AngryLion's RSP plugin; the game's a nightmare to run properly due to it using dynamic resolution depending on the characters on screen at once.  The problem with Nintendo's Wii U N64 is that the colors are washed out and dull, at least it gets that funky invisible Mario effect (alpha dithering) correctly emulated.  That, and Donkey Kong 64 uses linear audio filtering, for some reason, which is odd, other games don't use it.

Gonetz (one of the programmers for N64 emulation), has an interesting blog about the quirkiness of N64 hardware.  Granted, the Wii U N64 is superior to the Wii N64 emulation by far, and in some cases, Not64.


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## bootmonster (Oct 10, 2017)

cpjay said:


> Should give this a try, no input lag?


Even better would be to RGB mod it and use an RGB scaler


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## The Real Jdbye (Oct 10, 2017)

DinohScene said:


> Reason why N64 emulation is so difficult is cause of the complexity of the system.
> 
> Basically, don't expect N64 emulation to be perfect for another 10-15 years.
> I highly doubt Nintendo will bring a N64 mini to the market but.. stranger things have happened.


Why not? N64 Classic is the logical next step.
Although without the Rare classics it might be hard to find enough truly great games to fill the library. They could probably do Donkey Kong 64 because they own the IP but Banjo and Conker might be tough to get the licensing for. And in my opinion it just wouldn't be the same without them, Zelda OoT and Banjo-Kazooie are my top 2 favorite N64 games and absolutely must haves for me.


cpjay said:


> Just got me wondering, hypethetically if Nintendo are to release a Nintendo 64 classic mini next year, could this be the answer to the current shitty state of n64 emulation?
> If someone were able to dump this hypothetically n64 classic mini and develop it for windows then we could have the perfect emulator assuming Nintendo follow the same methods as the nes and snes classic minis.
> Would beat playing a the blur of a mess original n64.
> And then hopefully recreate the n64 mini with a raspberry Pi?
> What do You guys recon?


The emulator would not be perfect, they only need to ensure that the included games run perfectly, and with how difficult the N64 is to emulate that means that a lot of games will likely be incompatible or buggy.


laudern said:


> There already is an answer, but not an emulating answer.
> 
> Buy a n64 and ever drive 64. It plays 99% of n64 roms 100% perfectly. Not through emulation, but native hardware. Sure there is a slight financial outlay, but the results are 99% perfect.
> 
> ...


On Wii the emulator is bundled with the game and modified to work with every game, which is why for certain injects to work they must be injected into a specific WAD, and the compatibility list for VC injects is rather poor overall.
On Wii U things are slightly better, but the emulator (which is still bundled with the game for the record) needs game specific patches in the form of config files. However the emulator seems to be the same or mostly the same across different VC releases and only the config file needs to be changed for injects.
There's no reason to think that a N64 Classic would be much better, since they only need it to work perfectly with a handful of games. Although the hardware in NES/SNES Classic is powerful enough that it could do a better job at N64 emulation than the Wii U, it would probably be far from perfect with other games than those included.


TotalInsanity4 said:


> They've already made their own emulators for the Wii and Wii U that play better than any PC emulator
> 
> But that being the case, I'm guessing that since those haven't been RE'd yet, a potential future N64 mini wouldn't be either


The Wii one was pretty crap TBH with awful compatibility and the Wii U one has that annoying darkening filter, although it's still better.


johnbus said:


> You could get a S-Video cable for the N64, and a S-Video to HDMI converter box to plug into an HDTV. It wouldn't be super expensive, and you could use the same setup on an NES and SNES since they apparently use the same connector.


It wouldn't fix the smearing, which is actually a feature of sorts of the N64. Supposedly it made things look better on old CRT displays, kind of like antialiasing but far more rudimentary, but with modern LCDs (and probably even a good RGB CRT display) it just looks terrible. On old CRTs you couldn't tell because the image was kind of blurry anyway so it worked out.
Edit: Here's a video that shows the difference with and without the smearing. It's night and day.


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## DinohScene (Oct 10, 2017)

The Real Jdbye said:


> Why not? N64 Classic is the logical next step.
> Although without the Rare classics it might be hard to find enough truly great games to fill the library. They could probably do Donkey Kong 64 because they own the IP but Banjo and Conker might be tough to get the licensing for. And in my opinion it just wouldn't be the same without them, Zelda OoT and Banjo-Kazooie are my top 2 favorite N64 games and absolutely must haves for me.



N64 Mini without Conker isn't a N64 mini.
But like I said, stranger things happened so it could very well be that Nintendo releases a N64 mini.


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## froggestspirit (Oct 10, 2017)

Considering snes mini apparently uses hacks to handle some of the games, id assume n64 would be the same. Probably as good as the vc from wiiu. Iirc, the main issue with emulation is the microcode for the gpu?


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## The_Hulkster (Oct 10, 2017)

Doesn't it matter that emulator devs can't or at least try not to use proprietary code written by Nintendo?
Nintendo could use every bit of code in their arsenal to get it running smoothly.


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## The Real Jdbye (Oct 10, 2017)

The_Hulkster said:


> Doesn't it matter that emulator devs can't or at least try not to use proprietary code written by Nintendo?
> Nintendo could use every bit of code in their arsenal to get it running smoothly.


They can't use any of Nintendo's code, but they can reverse engineer it and create their own version.


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## Localhorst86 (Oct 10, 2017)

Nintendo had a plug and play N64 device already in the past. It was called ique. I don't see why they would necessarily need to go the emulation route, they could just revive this concept in some way. "Real" N64 hardware....


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## The_Hulkster (Oct 11, 2017)

The Real Jdbye said:


> They can't use any of Nintendo's code, but they can reverse engineer it and create their own version.



Sure, but that's never quite as accurate as Nintendo's own code, which is tailored to one system as opposed to be able to run on a variety of platforms.
All I'm saying is that  creating a mini N64 shoudn't be as hard for Nintendo as it is for emulation devs. And should be entirely possible to run whatever they want.


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## ital (Oct 11, 2017)

I doubt we'll see a mini 64 any time soon. In between the horrendously aged graphics, Rare issues with key titles, inherent cost of recreating and packaging those controllers and a whole host of other issues it doesn't seem likely which is why we're getting this GB Mini instead which, if they draw it out over three iterations, gives them room to breathe.

It would be great if they branched out and licensed other hardware as well so we got a Megadrive Mini, Master System Mini, PC Engine Mini, Neo Geo Mini. If they went that route then you could bet we'd see a Mini 64 in around 8 years with a Mini Cube after that and the dopest possible thing would be if the Mini GBA was actually compatible with the Mini Cube.


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## migles (Oct 11, 2017)

heh, i bet my ass developers just used a lot of ideas of current emulators, if not all most of the work...
so to nintendo make a good emulator, we need the fans to create a good emulator...


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## Shady Guy Jose (Oct 11, 2017)

replicashooter said:


> I doubt we'll see a mini 64 any time soon. In between the horrendously aged graphics, Rare issues with key titles, inherent cost of recreating and packaging those controllers and a whole host of other issues it doesn't seem likely which is why we're getting this GB Mini instead which, if they draw it out over three iterations, gives them room to breathe.
> 
> It would be great if they branched out and licensed other hardware as well so we got a Megadrive Mini, Master System Mini, PC Engine Mini, Neo Geo Mini. If they went that route then you could bet we'd see a Mini 64 in around 8 years with a Mini Cube after that and the dopest possible thing would be if the Mini GBA was actually compatible with the Mini Cube.


At least in Europe, there have been "Mega Drive Minis" on sale for a long time. Officially licensed, actually. They don't have the original design, though, and there have been a crapload of versions. Some of them even allowed you to sideload ROMs through an SD card, others were portable with TV Out (composite or HDMI), and others even allowed you to use original carts... Here's an example:


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## Deleted User (Oct 11, 2017)

Shady Guy Jose said:


> At least in Europe, there have been "Mega Drive Minis" on sale for a long time. Officially licensed, actually. They don't have the original design, though, and there have been a crapload of versions. Some of them even allowed you to sideload ROMs through an SD card, others were portable with TV Out (composite or HDMI), and others even allowed you to use original carts... Here's an example:


Unfortunately, from what I've heard, the sound emulation on that Genesis re-release is ass. Shame, too; if not for that, I might have bought one.

Also, the Neo Geo X is a thing.


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## Shady Guy Jose (Oct 11, 2017)

B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N said:


> Unfortunately, from what I've heard, the sound emulation on that Genesis re-release is ass. Shame, too; if not for that, I might have bought one.
> 
> Also, the Neo Geo X is a thing.


You mean the specific one in the picture? I'm not familiar with the particular models, since, as I said, I've seen quite a few flavors over the years. However, I'm sure there has been at least one with decent sound emulation  Maybe not in the US, where you're apparently from, though... Here's another example:


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## ital (Oct 11, 2017)

Those licensed ones are crap, I'm talking about Nintendo doing a proper one but given that the agreements are already in place that seems thin. Heres hoping they skip straight to a Dreamcast Mini instead


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## The_Hulkster (Oct 11, 2017)

They did register a trademark for the N64 controller recently. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they will use it.
But, who knows.


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## VmprHntrD (Oct 11, 2017)

Both those sega devices are the same junk in a box from ATGames/Blaze depending on your country.  Very poor 'firecore' emulator inside there.  Sometimes the music drops a note, but in most cases it's slightly to ear damaging(being dramatic) off key, pitch, whatever. It's bad.  I'm sure someone youtubed the audio just look up atgames genesis and Sonic the hedgehog and see how bad the title and ring 'ding' sound can be each time as one of the worse off examples.  They also will NOT save games, even on a legit cart it won't allow a real game to save too.  Recent models were hacked to have a few games to save but only those.  Probably 90% compatibility, the other 10% fall into dead saves, graphics breaking so bad it ruins/stops the game, or other oddities.  The HD Genesis home system this year loses the crap core for a modern ARM console using an android flavor emulator and loses the issues.  They still released a garbage slightly cheaper non HD console and the handheld sadly too again.  Possibly next year the handheld will finally not suck being fixed.

If you want a home system that looks like a sega running those things, get a 3d printed mini genesis (or repurpose and old Radica TV games genesis) shell, throw a Pi in there and go that route if you must.


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