# Right wingers proven to die more than Democrats due to the anti vaxx movement



## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

https://theintercept.com/2022/10/10/covid-republican-democrat-deaths/
Here's the article talking about it.
And
https://www.nber.org/papers/w30512
Here's the study.
From the article:
"Between March 2020 and March 2021, excess death rates for Republicans in Ohio and Florida were 1.6 percentage points higher than for Democrats; but from April 2021 to December 2021 — after vaccines became widely available — the gap widened to 10.6 percentage points. The study found that the largest gaps in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats came in Ohio and Florida counties with low vaccination rates. By using county-level vaccination rates in Ohio and Florida, “we find evidence that vaccination contributes to explaining differences in excess deaths by political party affiliation, even after controlling for location and age differences,” the study said."
And earlier they talk about how most democrats are vaccinated by that point (at  92%) while Republicans about half of them ( at 56%) are vaccinated


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## plasturion (Oct 14, 2022)

Covid jab has lowered the average IQ by 20 points
https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/i-reckon-covid-jab-has-lowered-average-iq-20-points


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## SScorpio (Oct 14, 2022)

You're trying to prove a point, but first prove that this isn't causality that old people who are the most vulnerable to COVID are also most likely to vote Republicans. A bunch of 18-22 college students aren't at risk.


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## The Catboy (Oct 14, 2022)

plasturion said:


> Covid jab has lowered the average IQ by 20 points
> https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/i-reckon-covid-jab-has-lowered-average-iq-20-points


No references, no sources, nothing but some dude's rambles.

Considering how the Right continues to spread and believe misinformation about vaccines, I am not shocked. Remaining unvaccinated has continued to be a proven method of either suffering long-term side effects or death.


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## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

plasturion said:


> Covid jab has lowered the average IQ by 20 points
> https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/i-reckon-covid-jab-has-lowered-average-iq-20-points


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Coleman
You sure want to be linking a conspiracy theorist who is not a virologist?

	Post automatically merged: Oct 14, 2022



SScorpio said:


> You're trying to prove a point, but* first prove that this isn't causality that old people who are the most vulnerable to COVID *are also most likely to vote Republicans. A bunch of 18-22 college students aren't at risk.


Read the article
Oh I'm sorry usually that's too difficult. Even if I had already quoted that for that. Oops



Nothereed said:


> we find evidence that vaccination contributes to explaining differences in excess deaths by political party affiliation, even after *controlling* for location and *age differences*,”


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## SScorpio (Oct 14, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> Read the article
> Oh I'm sorry usually that's too difficult. Even if I had already quoted that for that. Oops


I did, it only mentions looking at people age 25 and up. And it also claims there is no difference when balancing for age, but provides no data thus it's not possible to verify.

So no, an article that just claims something without being able to back it up doesn't help your argument.


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## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> I did, it only mentions looking at people age 25 and up. And it also claims there is no difference when balancing for age, but provides no data thus it's not possible to verify.
> 
> So no, an article that just claims something without being able to back it up doesn't help your argument.


NOOO DATA LMMMMAAAAAAO now I KNOW you didn't check. There's a big fat "download PDF" button. Which contains the ENTIRE 13 PAGE STUDY.


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 14, 2022)

Pretty funny.


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## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Of course you ignore all of the greater context because being a Conservative continues to requires not looking too deep into a subject.


this quote suddenly feels even more relevant than before. (which is impressive since it was already relevant)


SScorpio said:


> I did, it only mentions looking at people age 25 and up. And it also claims there is no difference when balancing for age, but provides no data thus it's not possible to verify.
> 
> So no, an article that just claims something without being able to back it up doesn't help your argument.


"The age bins used were 25-64, 65-74, 75-84, and 85-and-older"


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## ghjfdtg (Oct 14, 2022)

Natural selection in action.


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## KingVamp (Oct 14, 2022)

Sad, but not surprising.


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## VirgilMobile (Oct 14, 2022)

It still doesn't prove non-vaccinated ''republican'' are the ones who die.


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## linuxares (Oct 14, 2022)

So natural selection is just in full swing?


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## Hanafuda (Oct 14, 2022)

VirgilMobile said:


> It still doesn't prove non-vaccinated ''republican'' are the ones who die.



It's a classic case of trying to use correlation as proof of causation. One more likely explanation has already been suggested further up the page. In the end, people believe what they want to believe.


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## SScorpio (Oct 14, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> NOOO DATA LMMMMAAAAAAO now I KNOW you didn't check. There's a big fat "download PDF" button. Which contains the ENTIRE 13 PAGE STUDY.


The PDF with all this data only lists percentages between Democrats and Republicans. It doesn't list the numbers at the different ages on some charts. If you have the data that was used please provide it.


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## lokomelo (Oct 14, 2022)

I'm very far for being anti vax. I myself took 4 doses already and I'm up to date with the calendar where I live. That said, that study is bullshit, pure and simple.
A person with complete vaccination can get a pretty bad covid if the society around is not well covered. The opposite is true, a person without vaccine is protected if the society around has good vaccine coverage.
Also there are questions regarding age, income, and lots of other demographic data that needs to be proper isolated to make this kind of assumption.

A much better way to measure this thing would be simply count the number of covid deaths in a given time/place and the vaccine coverage on that given time/place, and compare with other time/place where the coverage was different. A zillion of institutes and organizations already did that measurements, and the results do show that vaccines are indeed very effective.


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## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> The PDF with all this data only lists percentages between Democrats and Republicans. It doesn't list the numbers at the different ages on some charts. If you have the data that was used please provide it.



I know that it's hard to check sources within a pdf file. But you can do it.  Check page 11.Because they tell you where they got their data from, and the methodology. They even intend on releasing the parts of data set they created which derived from those sources.

	Post automatically merged: Oct 14, 2022



Hanafuda said:


> It's a classic case of trying to use correlation as proof of causation.




I guess the virus is just really great at killing Republicans. It worms through the brain and checks if your a democrat or not. If you are? nah you don't die as much. Republican? well fuck you.


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## Hanafuda (Oct 14, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> I'm very far for being anti vax. I myself took 4 doses already and I'm up to date with the calendar where I live. That said, that study is bullshit, pure and simple.
> A person with complete vaccination can get a pretty bad covid if the society around is not well covered. The opposite is true, a person without vaccine is protected if the society around has good vaccine coverage.
> Also there are questions regarding age, income, and lots of other demographic data that needs to be proper isolated to make this kind of assumption.
> 
> A much better way to measure this thing would be simply count the number of covid deaths in a given time/place and the vaccine coverage on that given time/place, and compare with other time/place where the coverage was different. A zillion of institutes and organizations already did that measurements, and the results do show that vaccines are indeed very effective.



The mistake was ever calling them "vaccines." A true vaccination imputes immunity. The Covid "vaccines" were more like flu shots. Should've been called such, and treated as such.


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## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

VirgilMobile said:


> It still doesn't prove non-vaccinated ''republican'' are the ones who die.


Republicans had a vaccination rate of 56%. Compared to democrats which is 92%
Republicans died almost 11% points higher, than democrats, with controlling  for same age range and controlling even for location differences.
Republicans (the party) went on saying the vaccine is bad, take hydroxy instead, that's a better solution. And  Qanon (which is anti vaxx) also exists which is distinctly part of the Republican party. Unless your telling me the virus is picking an choosing by political affiliations in your brain. Which is an absurd position in a already absurd circumstance.
It's pretty obvious that vaccination rate, and excessive deaths are more than correlated, aka, since surprise! Having the vaccine reduces the odds of death, since you increase the odds of not getting so sick that you need to go to a hospital (or better yet maybe never catching it at all), and also increase the odds that even if you do enter one, you'll survive.


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## Marc_LFD (Oct 14, 2022)

The Democrat/Republican parties are rotten so that study just placed people on two sides based on what their political affiliation _may_ be.

This study just tries to keep medical segregation alive to divide people and there are many who'll obviously fall for their agenda as they agree and believe in it.

Moreover, Tulsi Gabbard is right. If she'd run for president in 2024, it'd be amazing.



CNN, MSNBC are garbage, but do you think NewsMax and FOX News are any better? 

Congrats on politicians politicizing this and losing any credibility they had left. Oh, speaking of that...



	Post automatically merged: Oct 14, 2022



Nothereed said:


> I guess the virus is just really great at killing Republicans


You're obsessed with Democrats vs Republicans.


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## Nothereed (Oct 14, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> You're obsessed with Democrats vs Republicans.


I guess the study is too then


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## SScorpio (Oct 14, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I know that it's hard to check sources within a pdf file. But you can do it.  Check page 11.Because they tell you where they got their data from, and the methodology. They even intend on releasing the parts of data set they created which derived from those sources.


Again, did you read the data yourself? Point me to how I can actually pull relevant data if you can because I do want to look at it.

I can see the pretty charts, but it doesn't let you get the raw data from them. There are several CSV files, but one is just total deaths by age group per week, while the other lists excessive deaths related to COVID this is by week, but doesn't break down by age.

The study you linked took separate pieces of data describing different groups and averaged them out to create their narrative.

For a proper study, you'd need a count of deaths by age group over time where the stated cause was COVID, along with the vaccination status. Political affiliation would be great, but I'd be extremely surprised if that data was available.

Without that data, it's just like every other study in existence, lies, damn lies, or statistics.


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## AkikoKumagara (Oct 14, 2022)

plasturion said:


> Covid jab has lowered the average IQ by 20 points
> https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/i-reckon-covid-jab-has-lowered-average-iq-20-points



You don't actually believe this drivel, do you?
Also, IQ itself is a flawed measurement of intelligence.


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## Nothereed (Oct 15, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> Again, did you read the data yourself? Point me to how I can actually pull relevant data if you can because I do want to look at it.
> 
> I can see the pretty charts, but it doesn't let you get the raw data from them. There are several CSV files, but one is just total deaths by age group per week, while the other lists excessive deaths related to COVID this is by week, but doesn't break down by age.


How many more directions do I need to give you. Are unable to read or something?
Tl;dr
A. your going to have to contact Datavant for the mortality data.
B. you need request access for Florida voter file along with the Ohio one.
C. and then the CDC one (Which I know that's the one your complaining about)

You use the Datavant data, which provides just enough information to match it with the Florida and or Ohio files. There's your who's voting who part.
 And because we're talking death records, that's also provided. So we know the cause of death.
 You then use the CDC information for vaccination rates. Which goes by county.

So you know where the person died (the county) the vaccination rate from the cdc. And the voting record. You then compile all that information.

All of this is listed in the paper. Had you read it, again, you would of known the methodology, and the resources used.

As a sidenote


SScorpio said:


> So no, an article that just claims something without being able to back it up doesn't help your argument.


You've been kicking and screaming the whole way through this. So I'd really appreciate if you try to avoid strawmans. It be awesome. Since three times now you've made an argument with nothing to back it up, or worse, outright proven wrong.



SScorpio said:


> Again, did you read the data yourself? Point me to how I can actually pull relevant data if you can because I do want to look at it.


Not your original argument.
I'm also not going to go sift through a metric fuck ton of data for someone who can't seem to do something without someone babying them through the entire process. Not your babysitter.
Considering that 3 of the 4 sources are from the government, it would be pretty damn hard to fuck up the data. Technically 4 out of 4, since Datavant, checks with the master death file provided from the social security administration.


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## SScorpio (Oct 15, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> How many more directions do I need to give you. Are unable to read or something?
> Tl;dr
> A. your going to have to contact Datavant for the mortality data.
> B. you need request access for Florida voter file along with the Ohio one.
> ...


The available data the study is citing doesn't allow for the claims they are making. And you listed alternative sources where you could get that data some of which might require submitting FOIA requests.

Furthermore, this study only covers excess deaths, not specifically Covid deaths. Get hit by a car? You're in this data. Heat attack? Yep.

 Of other Covid data I've seen the majority of deaths have been in the 85+ range, followed by 75-84, and finally 65-74, where it falls off very sharpy. Older people were also more likely to get vaccinated regardless of political affiliation. This is why having the vaccinated status of Covid deaths would be very helpful to have.

The variation being seen could be due to social economic factors like in Flordia where people voting Democrat generally live in larger cities with better access to health care. Having the study look at this prior to 2020 could reveal that as even in their charts 2018 had period of excess deaths that were greater than expected.


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## omgcat (Oct 15, 2022)

Hanafuda said:


> The mistake was ever calling them "vaccines." A true vaccination imputes immunity. The Covid "vaccines" were more like flu shots. Should've been called such, and treated as such.


you realize the flu shots are vaccines right? https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/flushot.htm



> What is a flu vaccine?​
> Influenza (flu) vaccines (often called “flu shots”) are vaccines that protect against the four influenza viruses that research indicates will be most common during the upcoming season. Most flu vaccines are “flu shots” given with a needle, usually in the arm, but there also is a nasal spray flu vaccine.



PLEASE at least do a little research before making a statement that can be googled as false in less than 10 seconds. most vaccines do not prevent infection, but reduce symptoms to a manageable, non-lethal level. there are plenty of diseases where the vaccine doesn't 100% prevent infection. for example TDAP can reduce your symptoms of whooping cough, but won't guarantee prevention of an infection.


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## Nothereed (Oct 15, 2022)

SScorpio said:


> The available data the study is citing doesn't allow for the claims they are making. And you listed alternative sources where you could get that data some of which might require submitting FOIA requests.


let me hold on, just gotta screenshot for something for effect:




let me just repeat the process one more time:




Ahem...




please tell me again that you did read this paper and turned to page 11 (of the pdf file). *Because they aint alternative sources.
THEY ARE THE SOURCES*


So you opened the link, looked at the pdf, went as fast as possible to click any link you could find for data, and then didn't bother reading the damn paper, and then cry that I point to you, the sources of information, that came *from the paper*
That they are somehow *"alternative"  *when I point them out to you.
You've become the entire circus!


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## Hanafuda (Oct 15, 2022)

omgcat said:


> you realize the flu shots are vaccines right?



Not in the common man's vernacular. You're technically correct of course, but only medical personnel or textbooks would've chosen such word usage prior to Covid. To everyone else on the street, it's a "flu shot." Vaccinations are for polio, smallpox, rubella, rabies, tuberculosis. The public relations people involved in selling the Covid "vaccinations" should've thought about that before pushing it on the public as a "vaccine." There would've been a lot less resistance with the blue collar hoi polloi if they'd just called it the "Covid shot."

I _did_ get the Covid shots, btw.


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## KitChan (Oct 15, 2022)

That's cos antifa keeps attacking them and they also can't buy basic necessities due to banks cancelling them.


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## City (Oct 15, 2022)

They died for covid a lot more because in leftists states people tend to die younger due to getting shot by gangs lmao


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## LainaGabranth (Oct 15, 2022)

Color me surprised: Not getting a vaccine against something makes you susceptible to the thing you're not vaccinated against. Shocking.


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## Taleweaver (Oct 15, 2022)

I object to the title of this thread. It implies that democrats somehow aren't rightwing politicians. Just because there's a "news station" and a blonde former presidents droning exaggerations on them ("they're 0.1 inch less rightwing than us so omfg extreme leftwing fundamentalist socialism!!! ") doesn't change their stance much.

But ey... If we leave that argument a bit, the discussion's already quite heated enough. Yes, it's political drama. And it's actually quite a good point that democrats are young and physically fit whereas Republicans are retired unhealthy folk, so I'm not sure the whole antivaccination hoax has such a drastic effect.

But it doesn't change the fact that the political landscape has changed. Republicans already had issues winning elections based on actual votes...can they even recover from losing so many votes?


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## omgcat (Oct 16, 2022)

Taleweaver said:


> Republicans already had issues winning elections based on actual votes...can they even recover from losing so many votes?


yup, gerrymandering, arbitrary signature match enforcement, violent poll watchers, arbitrary vote roll purges, closing down drop boxes in specific area's (such as removing them from colleges or limiting the number of boxes per county) and finally sending an independent slate of electors if that one supreme court case goes in favor of the republicans.


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## The Catboy (Oct 16, 2022)

Wow, anti-vacs are dying at a higher rate


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## Viri (Oct 16, 2022)

Still not getting the jab.


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