# Microsoft adjusts Xbox One DRM policies, online check-ins and used game complications are history



## masterchan777 (Jun 19, 2013)

Giant Bomb is reporting that it has spoken with multiple sources and that Microsoft is going to reverse all of its DRM policies on the Xbox One.




 
The breakdown of what Microsoft is said to be changing according to the report includes:

No more always online requirement
The console no longer has to check in every 24 hours
All game discs will work on Xbox One as they do on Xbox 360
An Internet connection is only required when initially setting up the console
All downloaded games will function the same when online or offline
No additional restrictions on trading games or loaning discs
Region locks have been dropped
Source
Update: Microsoft confirmed the changes


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## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2013)

Now Don Mattrick has to adjust his vision.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

Edit: Woo, read the source. Xbox One is still sucky though.


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## BIFFTAZ (Jun 19, 2013)

Yaaaaaaaaaaa Hooooooooooo !!!!! Wait up XBONE, I'm back 



Nathan Drake said:


> Edit: Woo, read the source. Xbox One is still sucky though.


 
Read my friend, Its official 

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update


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## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2013)

It's official, Xbox One is back in the game.

Edit: Neogaf's servers melted under the pressure.


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## 3bbb7 (Jun 19, 2013)

it's already too late, they should've realized this the day they announced this garbage

even though I am more of a PC gamer, after this I'd still choose ps4 over xbone


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## Jamstruth (Jun 19, 2013)

I was starting to warm to some of the policies. To me all it needed was a removal on the online check to be viable. That Family Library idea was pretty smart as was the ability to gift games digitally. That'll no longer exist because of the disc check and it'll still require you to install it to the drive (imo a slight problem with a 500GB harddrive that might hold HD video as well as games).

My main point of contention is just with MS and the Gold paywall. I can't watch YouTube, NetFlix or even browse the web on my 360 because of this policy. Revoke that policy and even with the trade-in issues I might consider the XBOne


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## loco365 (Jun 19, 2013)

Wow. Microsoft actually listened to something.


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## ilman (Jun 19, 2013)

Meh, didn't care about DRM that much.
What I care about still isn't fixed - there are no good GAEMZ for the thing.


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## plasma (Jun 19, 2013)

So Microsoft have apparently listened and saw the amount of dislikes towards the new XBox One, with the DRM and always online and it seems they have *backtracked* on the XBone, supposedly removing the game DRM and Always online feature.


Spoiler



*"Q: Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games?* A: We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We’ll have more details to share later.

*"Q: Does Xbox One require an “always on” Internet connection?* A: No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet. We’re designing Xbox One to be your all-in-one entertainment system that is connected to the cloud and always ready. We are also designing it so you can play games and watch Blu-ray movies and live TV if you lose your connection.​


What do you think about this?
I ain't an Xbox fan anyways, but this seemed interesting and I don't think it has been posted yet. (Sorry if it has, this is my first USN article)

Source


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

By the way, all, remember:
Before doing this, Microsoft snidely offered the 360 as the alternative to their prized baby. They ignored fan uproar and stuck to their policies through E3 until they saw, well, shit, people liked the _opposite_ of what they were doing. They didn't say anything about the "always on", the required Kinect, the privacy concerns, etc. They also didn't say anything about the very limited launch. Some core issues may have been resolved, but the Xbox One still isn't exactly an appealing console.


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## Ethevion (Jun 19, 2013)

There you have it complainers, now pre order it


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## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2013)

http://gbatemp.net/threads/microsof...d-used-game-complications-are-history.349818/


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## wiiluver135 (Jun 19, 2013)

is it still $499?
If so then I'll stick with my PS4 thank you


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## ilman (Jun 19, 2013)

Sadly, there are already 2 topics about this.


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## plasma (Jun 19, 2013)

close this then c:


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

Sagat said:


> There you have it complainers, now pre order it


Yeah, 21 countries that will have access to it, go pre-order it! Wait. That issue wasn't resolved? Big surprise.


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## AngryGeek416 (Jun 19, 2013)

Still no sale. That;s like someone trying to rob me then apologizing for it thinking I'll trust them again, ain't gonna happen. Fuck MS


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## matthi321 (Jun 19, 2013)

Still not going to preorder it or the ps4, but it is good that drm is removed because then it can be hacked, and then I might buy it in 2-3 years when the price has dropped.


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## Tom Bombadildo (Jun 19, 2013)

Will prolly buy one like...10 years down the road. But PS4 = first sale.


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## Ethevion (Jun 19, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Yeah, 21 countries that will have access to it, go pre-order it! Wait. That issue wasn't resolved? Big surprise.





Sagat said:


> There you have it complainers in the 21 listed countries, now pre order it


Fixed it, thanks for that


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## the_randomizer (Jun 19, 2013)

Wow, that almost makes it appealing! Hell has indeed frozen over. DRM = 0  Common sense = 1


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## _V1qY (Jun 19, 2013)

Still sucks though.


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## Osha (Jun 19, 2013)

Microsoft must've read this book. Still not gonna buy that console, I'll stick with WiiU and PS4, at least the exclusives are interesting.


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## Clarky (Jun 19, 2013)

Surprised me. Really has seeing how stubborn they can be on these decisions. Still power to the people and all that


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## chavosaur (Jun 19, 2013)

Thank god they listened to fan response. 
A little late, but better late then never, that's for sure. 
I just may come on back to you Xbox.


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## air2004 (Jun 19, 2013)

Fuck you MS it's to late and the damage has been done.


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## AngryGeek416 (Jun 19, 2013)

Anyone who runs out and preorders a Xbox One now is a sheep. That's all I gotta say.


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## nando (Jun 19, 2013)

damn it. I really wanted to see how this was gonna play out


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## DinohScene (Jun 19, 2013)

Told you so.

Hello MS, hows patching going?


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## emigre (Jun 19, 2013)

I would love to know how much Microsoft have now lost in terms of research and development regarding the DRM. They're back in the gaem but I'm still leaning towards PS4 and the WiiU to a lesser extent cause they didn't try to fuck over consumers like the Xbone. There's still a lot of flaws to bash the Xbone with but the really big one is gone.


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## Hyro-Sama (Jun 19, 2013)

When in doubt, backpeddle like a bitch?


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 19, 2013)

Here, a list of Xbox One problems. The crossed off ones have been fixed.

- Restrictive used game policy
- Restrictive DRM
- $100 more than a stronger game console
- System always on
- Kinect required at all times (Privacy concerns)
- Always online
- Once per day online check in
- 21 country launch
- Most functions having a limited, primarily North American, and even more specifically US appeal
- Childlike behavior on part of Microsoft when promoting their system
- Late launch in many countries (lack of region lock does not fix this)

There are probably more as well. Microsoft only hit about half of their problems, and I don't think too many of these fixes will change the wide held opinions on the system.


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## jonesman99 (Jun 19, 2013)

I don't feel its too late for them as long as the console has yet to be released. This was a giant step in the right direction, now they just have to deliver on this as well as their launch games and a steady flow of games for it through next E3 and they could possibly make a Sony upset.


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## GameWinner (Jun 19, 2013)

It really depends on who grabs the most attention as we move closer to the holidays. Right now PS4 has the upper hand but it will be interesting to see what Microsoft pulls out.
Also, still buying a PS4>>>>Xbox One.


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## KingVamp (Jun 19, 2013)

The problem is, that they can go back to this DRM at any time in the console lifetime.


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## Walker D (Jun 19, 2013)

Better than nothing for sure ...but it's still a expensive VCR though


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## Tokiopop (Jun 19, 2013)

Sagat said:


> There you have it complainers, now pre order it


 
When it's $100 cheaper than the PS4, sure.


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## chavosaur (Jun 19, 2013)

KingVamp said:


> The problem is, that they can go back to this DRM at any time in the console lifetime.


With as much backlash as they received, and the fact they changed it now, I sincerely doubt they'd try to implement it AGAIN.


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## emigre (Jun 19, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> With as much backlash as they received, and the fact they changed it now, I sincerely doubt they'd try to implement it AGAIN.


 

I'm sure they run foul of EU Law if they tried to implement it.


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## Deleted member 473940 (Jun 19, 2013)

I was just thinking about the xbone.. Was going to make a topic to ask about the odds of M$ changing the terms and conditions lol.

Guess they did change most of the shit.
STILL PS4 for me 

Not loaded with extra money like I used to, gotta stick to a single one.


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## jonesman99 (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm still gonna watch all 3 for at least 6 months before I make my first purchase. I don't really have a lot of money, but I might scrape up enough for all 3 if the exclusives are on the level.


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## Gabbynaruto (Jun 19, 2013)

Even with this, I still have yet to find a reason to buy an Xbone. Maybe, if I find that reason... when I'll find it, maybe I'll be glad they don't have an online requirement anymore. But, for now, Microsoft has yet to offer me a reason to buy their console. I'm picky, and I don't care what you say, the only Xbone game that impressed me was Plants Vs Zombies: Garden Warfare. But that's not enough to prompt me to buy one. Plus, it still doesn't work in Romania, so, nice try Microsoft! One step forward doesn't mean you're better than before. In fact, what they did more like told me they took the coward's way out. If they would have been that big, trustworthy company they think they are, they would have stood by their beliefs of how a console should work and make it attractive enough to cover all the features people have been bashing it for. Instead, they got their tail between their legs and decided to switch back to some of the old practices people like. I like that, but making this decision so soon makes me hate them even more. How pathetic can they be... I probably would have had a different reaction if they would have done this half a year/ a year after the Xbone was released, but now, they are just cowards, nothing more. /rantover


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## Attila13 (Jun 19, 2013)

I'll still pass on this and will buy the PS4!


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## Forstride (Jun 19, 2013)

To the people saying too late:

The consoles aren't even out yet. If you've already made your decision on which console you'll get, regardless of what features and games were announced, only a week after they were fully revealed, you are a moron.

Not to mention, they changed the major things that we wanted changed, and people are still not happy. If it's not going to change your mind either way, why even complain about it in the first place? Stop acting smug about something that hasn't even affected you yet, and won't affect you anymore.


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## Sefi (Jun 19, 2013)

About time Microsoft does something about all of this.  Of course by now there are millions of people that are permanently turned off by the Xbox One for reasons related to this whole mess.  Just the other day Xbox's facebook page had tons of middle fingers posted by people anywhere there was the option to comment on something.  People are pissed off, and you are really REALLY going to have to earn their trust back.  This reversal is a step in the right direction, they need to go a bit further though.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 19, 2013)

matthi321 said:


> Still not going to preorder it or the ps4, but it is good that drm is removed because then it can be hacked, and then I might buy it in 2-3 years when the price has dropped.


"because then it can be hacked"
Because it was unhackable before?



CanuckBuck said:


> Anyone who runs out and preorders a Xbox One now is a sheep. That's all I gotta say.


Though I find the idea of preordering any console to be a less than financially/logically sound act I am going to have to push you on this -- most preorders could be cancelled/refunded on a whim, MS have apparently dropped most of their sticking points and games wise I am not sure one can declare it is uncompetitive at this point.



KingVamp said:


> The problem is, that they can go back to this DRM at any time in the console lifetime.


Assuming they did not leave a proviso in the contract (though that would be tricky) would that not
a) Apply to everybody-- Sony or Nintendo could turn around and do the same thing for instance.
b) Be a massive PR loss?



emigre said:


> I would love to know how much Microsoft have now lost in terms of research and development regarding the DRM. They're back in the gaem but I'm still leaning towards PS4 and the WiiU to a lesser extent cause they didn't try to fuck over consumers like the Xbone. There's still a lot of flaws to bash the Xbone with but the really big one is gone.



Though I do not doubt they will have a nice thing in the expense column this year such things never go away and just resurface somewhere else at some other point in time -- mobile phones and tablets seem to be the new locked down niceness and MS' online/thin client, server and embedded markets are making interesting rumblings towards this end.


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## SifJar (Jun 19, 2013)

Well, there go several of the best features of the Xbox One IMO; the 10 family members shared "pool" of games and playing disc-bought games without discs.


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## MAXLEMPIRA (Jun 19, 2013)

Microsoft cry like a little girl... hahaha
it doesn't matter, I'll got PS4 as it is better in every way :3


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## sentinel5000 (Jun 19, 2013)

LOL................ poor MS. Now they realized they screwed up and want to fix things, by reverting their decision. Wow, that should teach them that you should never fuck with players and their way to handle games, if I wanna sell my game I sell because I paid for it, stupid MS still have the console $100 more than PS4. For their stupidity they deserve that players just don't buy their "console". It's like saying to some random guy: "Hey dude you suck you mofo" and then when they realize its a cop then they say: "You know what? My mistake, you don't suck...."


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## Ethevion (Jun 19, 2013)

Tokiopop said:


> When it's $100 cheaper than the PS4, sure.


Ask them to rip out the Kinect, maybe you'll get a discount


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## jacksprat1990 (Jun 19, 2013)

If it is hacked in the future, I might consider buying one. I don't trust them. They have shown their number one priorities.

Plus, I went through atleast 4 red ringers. They should be rewarding me for putting up with their shit for so long.


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## chartube12 (Jun 19, 2013)

http://kotaku.com/surprise-xbox-one-drm-reversal-requires-day-one-patch-514419715

I didn't care much about these cloud library features anyway....And why would they need to be gone completely? Those 2 features could go to digital retail copies? Don't tell me they didn't have a backup plan in place in case the drm fell apart (sarcasm) (which it did, more sarcasm). This means microsoft didn't have any other major protection in place besides the drm for the library features...epic universal facepalm!

EDIT: Still not buying one. Voting with my wallet. SCREW U MICROSOFT!


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## Necron (Jun 19, 2013)

This is cool, more freedom, but they already got their image destroyed and, kinect is still required, cost $100 more and won't be available at launch in like, most parts of the world.


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## Scott-105 (Jun 19, 2013)

This is great news. I'll still probably get the PS4 though


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## Joe88 (Jun 19, 2013)

big brother is still watching


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## Satangel (Jun 19, 2013)

Crazy stuff, but so justified! Really an incredible turnaround, you could almost say they did a 360-degree turn. Good stuff Microsoft, I like.


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## stanleyopar2000 (Jun 19, 2013)

its too late...they already showed their desired new world of customer control and disk order. They are only doing this because we bitched and they are afraid Sony will completely own them and not get our money. If we didn't bitch, they would have continued with this. Gotta give them SOME cred though, they could have completely fucking ignored us and crashed and burned more 

They haven't backpedaled on the always on Kinnect though. God forbid they lose their funding by the NSA


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## SifJar (Jun 19, 2013)

Satangel said:


> Crazy stuff, but so justified! Really an incredible turnaround, you could almost say _they did a 360-degree turn._ Good stuff Microsoft, I like.


 
You realise that would leave them *facing the exact same direction*, right? So no, you could not say that.


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## jonesman99 (Jun 19, 2013)

The only thing that would make me buy the XBone over the PS4 would be if it had free online multiplayer, but all the extra features, like Twitch integration etc., you would have to pay for.


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## BasedKiliK (Jun 19, 2013)

Wait, so a day 1 patch is supposed to remove the DRM. But what happens to those folks who can't connect online to even do that.......?


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## DiabloStorm (Jun 19, 2013)

If they can flip flop the system's settings like this so easily, what's stopping them from going back to their original plan once they've made their sales? Nothing. Expect something like a new EULA popup screen that you have to accept in order for the console to run _at all_ that makes it so everything goes back to how it was before, conveniently timed long after your product refund window has closed. 
Who the hell would trust them at this point? They've made their first impression already and it's absolutely clear what their intentions are. You still have to waive your right to class action lawsuits and deal with their spy camera.


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## Nah3DS (Jun 19, 2013)

still costs $100 more


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## emmanu888 (Jun 19, 2013)

Still too expensive and already preordered a PS4 but. It's nice to see Microsoft actually listened to fans feedback


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## kristianity77 (Jun 19, 2013)

What about all this processing in the cloud bollocks they were talking about. Is that all going to be dropped now or are people going to get a better experience connected to the net than someone who doesnt.

Still doesn't bother me. I see no reason to pay for whats at least on paper an inferior machine, and I dont have no desire for Kinect. MS will still fuck the users over somehow. Extra £5 or £10 a year perhaps for xbox live anyone?


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## Veho (Jun 19, 2013)

NahuelDS said:


> still costs $100 more


Maybe now that the Xbone doesn't have to watch you while you sleep and all that, they will release a version without Kinect, and that one can be $100 cheaper.


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## Thomas83Lin (Jun 19, 2013)

Its a shame really, I was really enjoying watching them fail!! . but they are better off without all the stupid DRM.


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## Walkin (Jun 19, 2013)

I never thought this would happen.  I would now consider getting an Xbox One.  After a price drop or two.


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## Eerpow (Jun 19, 2013)

I wonder if people are willing to give MS a new chance. Kinda unsure what they'll do, just that they even considered it in the first place already put them in a bad light. Hope they continue in this direction though as there's a risk they still might try to put up as much crap as they can get away with.


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Jun 19, 2013)

After 3 months they will once again reverse their policies and re-add DRM.
I see you Microsoft.

In all seriousness though they were smart to learn from their mistakes before they even made them. They have to hope that people still trust them after the stuff they almost pulled.


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## RupeeClock (Jun 19, 2013)

Well that's the DRM issue resolved at least, but there are still other issues like the system not being that good of a value compared to the PS4 as a gaming console, or the price-point. Not to mention general concerns with privacy, people not wanting the mandatory kinect sensor, etc.
The Xbox One is still not the most desirable product compared to the competition, it will take more than a few exclusives to sway the system still.


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## Nah3DS (Jun 19, 2013)

still looks like a VCR


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## Flame (Jun 19, 2013)

Internet has spoken M$...  Xbox One name is rubbish ...


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## narutofan777 (Jun 19, 2013)

oh...idc. I'm still getting ps4..I don't buy consoles to watch movies or tv shows..I buy it to play games. I can watch any show or movie right now on a 50$ comp..xbox 1 "all in one entertainment system" really?


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## chris888222 (Jun 19, 2013)

Well done Microsoft. Trolling fans and consumers.

Of course, I'm kinda glad this DRM fiasco is "over".


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## Deleted member 329676 (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm glad they've finally gotten some sense knocked into them. We'll see how this goes a little bit further down the road though.


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## EyeZ (Jun 19, 2013)

So they realised their commercial suicide, not that I care much about it, I still prefer the PS4 to the Xbone.

It does me wonder how they thought they would get away with what they were proposing.

So now we have damage limitation, too late, damage done


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## techboy (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm someone who doesn't own any current-gen console from Sony or MS (have 2 Wiis), and am considering a PS4. I might rethink that now, but I still have concerns with what's been mentioned above...MS just going backwards after it ships, and the Kinect being mandatory.

Looks like for the most part though, MS did an XBox One...eighty.


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## VampireLordAlucard (Jun 19, 2013)

demonicstrife said:


> Wait, so a day 1 patch is supposed to remove the DRM. But what happens to those folks who can't connect online to even do that.......?


You have to connect to the internet for the initial set up still.


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## Flame (Jun 19, 2013)

techboy said:


> I'm someone who doesn't own any current-gen console from Sony or MS (have 2 Wiis), and am considering a PS4. I might rethink that now, but I still have concerns with what's been mentioned above...MS just going backwards after it ships, and the Kinect being mandatory.
> 
> Looks like for the most part though, MS did an XBox One...eighty.


 
you are going to be the only person with Xbox One.. get a PS4 or Wii-U....... or even Oyua like everyone else


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## omgpwn666 (Jun 19, 2013)

Very impressed, I think this only makes them look better as a company. Usually backing down on polices like the Xbox One had going would make me believe they're just a bunch of wimps, but they actually listened to all the feedback and made a change for the consumers. Xbox One has my love back, good job! Still making love to my PC, but nice to have the option of a PS4 and Xbox One at hand if I ever want either.


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## Katsumi San (Jun 19, 2013)

This is all trying to make people forget that Xbox One = SpyBox with kinect


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## blaisedinsd (Jun 19, 2013)

They still need to drop the kinect requirement, release a bundle for $100 cheaper that doesn't have it, then they would probably be right on the level with Sony. They could even be slightly ahead if Sony doesn't match the online feature of live.


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## Carnivean (Jun 19, 2013)

Microsoft: "We fuck you as hard as we can get away with."


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## regnad (Jun 20, 2013)

So now Nintendo is the only one with region lock.


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## Katsumi San (Jun 20, 2013)

Carnivean said:


> Microsoft: "We fuck you as hard as we can get away with."


Their new slogan? =O


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## SifJar (Jun 20, 2013)

Quite interesting article which excellently explains my views on the subject http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905


techboy said:


> Looks like for the most part though, MS did an XBox One...eighty.


This guy understands angles. That is all.


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## RedCoreZero (Jun 20, 2013)

WiiiUWiiiUWiiiUWiiiUWiiiUWiiiUWiiiUWiii U

Major Damage Control!Major Damage Control!

Apply cold water to burned area.


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## BrightNeko (Jun 20, 2013)

I wonder if only 22 states and 21 countries can still access it, or if any of the other really crappy sticking points still apply. Also wonder if it will delay the console any.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vid...st&utm_medium=index_carousel&utm_campaign=all jim has some nice words on the matter xD


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## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> If it is hacked in the future, I might consider buying one. I don't trust them. They have shown their number one priorities.
> 
> Plus, I went through atleast 4 red ringers. They should be rewarding me for putting up with their shit for so long.


Yes, they have shown that their number one priority is a reflecting adaptation to the consumers wants.

And the Xbox 360 hasn't been out for 12 years, so there's no way you should have bought 4 Xbox 360's (due to the 3-year extended RROD warranty). In fact, it's in human nature to conclude within 3-stage reactions. 1st time is an accident, 2nd time is a coincidence, and 3rd time is a product of design. So either you're not a human being or your synapses and dentrites aren't communicating with your conscious schema... or you're lying. You choose.


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## jacksprat1990 (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Yes, they have shown that their number one priority is a relecting adaptation to the consumers wants.
> 
> And the Xbox 360 hasn't been out for 12 years, so there's no way you should have bought 4 Xbox 360's (due to the 3-year extended RROD warranty). In fact, it's in human nature to conclude within 3-stage reactions. 1st time is an accident, 2nd time is a coincidence, and 3rd time is a product of design. So either you're not a human being or your synpases and dentrites aren't communicating with your conscious schema... or you're lying. You choose.


 
Yes, I'm lying...


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## Bobbybangin (Jun 20, 2013)

Huge statement regarding DRM for the whole industry in general.


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## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

We just lost a lot, all because of the misconstrued information of DRM policies by some nerds through memes and internet jokes.

How different was XboxOne's DRM posed to be in comparison to Steam? Or even iTunes and the App Store? Both are incredibly successful, and both have highly competitive price ranges for their introverted, confining ecosystems... aaand we lost all of that.


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## Sterling (Jun 20, 2013)

SifJar said:


> Quite interesting article which excellently explains my views on the subject http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905
> This guy understands angles. That is all.


The first post by Jason Schreler sums up why this model was doomed from the start. Without retail partners, Microsoft would not get the benefit of advertising in store. We would all be up a creek without a paddle if Microsoft had successfully taken the market like this. Wanna know why Steam Games are so cheap? Because they're not sold in physical form in retail.



> Kyle, you're arguing that people should have taken a stick with no promise of a carrot in the future. Did Microsoft ever say anything about making games cheaper as a result of these policies? Anywhere? There is no reason for anyone to have just accepted this DRM in exchange for the hope that maaaaaaaybe Microsoft will build a Steam-like infrastructure eventually, especially since Microsoft has shown no indication that they'd even consider doing so.
> 
> Microsoft could sell digital copies of games right now for cheaper than physical copies, and instantly solve the "used game problem," but they won't, because they can't, because their retail partners won't let them. That's why digital copies of games on PS3 and Xbox 360 are $60. If they're cheaper, Walmart and Target will get mad. What makes you think that would suddenly change in this fantasy world where Microsoft wins and used games go away and everything is cheap and EVERYONE WINS?


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## 431unknown (Jun 20, 2013)

It's a start but they should still drop the price down to the PS4 point and I might consider getting it around launch. The  Kinect always on don't really bother me. If they want to watch me nail my wife or me spanking the monkey in the morning what ever.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> We just lost a lot, all because of the misconstrued information of DRM policies by some nerds through memes and internet jokes.
> 
> How different was XboxOne's DRM posed to be in comparison to Steam? Or even iTunes and the App Store? Both are incredibly successful, and both have highly competitive price ranges for their introverted, confining ecosystems... aaand we lost all of that.


 

And DRM was somehow vital? Who the hell cares about DRM?

Oh, that's right, no one.


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## chartube12 (Jun 20, 2013)

I almost passed out laughing at the people on gizmodo...Someone seriously made the argument that drm meant games being cheaper and others defending the argument. And another person made the argument that DRM made gamers somehow the true owners of xbone games.


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## PROTOBOY (Jun 20, 2013)

So maybe I will choose this one, I know exatly


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## Harsky (Jun 20, 2013)

With region locking finally given the boot on the Xbox One, how long before it'll go for the 3DS and Wii U? I thought region locking was done to prevent people importing cheaper games from other regions or because different countries have different age ratings for the same game but I guess in the end, it was just an annoying thing to prevent people from playing a game from another region several months early. 

On topic, the DRM only played one part in why I won't be buying the Xbox One. The mandatory use of the Kinect sensor and the price is another big factor. Anyways, this is the second time, Microsoft "listened to their customers and gave them what the wanted". Windows 8 and the start button comes to mind but that's probably nothing compared to this Xbox One no DRM news.


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## chartube12 (Jun 20, 2013)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Because xbone will get hacked and hackers will use the kinect "2" and xbone to make free prone from gamers.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> And DRM was somehow vital? Who the hell cares about DRM?
> 
> Oh, that's right, no one.


You and other uninformed Nintendo loyalists with a predisposition against Microsoft don't represent the true wants and wishes of all gamers.

Don't be so impressed with your own ignorance.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> You and other uninformed Nintendo loyalists with a predisposition against Microsoft don't represent the true wants and wishes of all gamers.
> 
> Don't be so impressed with your own ignorance.


 

You mean I'm not impressed with my own ignorance already!? I didn't know you were a spokesman for Microsoft and all the DRM-fapping worshipers. Tell me more, O Great Spokesman. Rescue me from mine own debilitating ignorance, O Great One

Grow the hell up and then come back okay?


----------



## Sterling (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> You and other uninformed Nintendo loyalists with a predisposition against Microsoft don't represent the true wants and wishes of all gamers.
> 
> Don't be so impressed with your own ignorance.


I find it funny how you think DRM will magically allow Microsoft to allow cheaper prices. The only ignorant and uninformed person you're pointing out is yourself.


----------



## Lemmy Koopa (Jun 20, 2013)

Still not touching it.


----------



## CrimzonEyed (Jun 20, 2013)

The damage is already done though. And the ps4 is still 40% more powerful and is still cheaper.  And microsoft have already shown their true face.


----------



## DiscostewSM (Jun 20, 2013)

So, how long before EA brings back Online Passes?


----------



## mechagouki (Jun 20, 2013)

Everyone hated MS for the DRM and the always-on and the daily check. Now everyone seems to hate them for actually listening and changing some stuff. They tried to evolve an industry which has a less definite future than it did 10 years ago and of course it was a little to much for the average gamer to grasp. Why shouldn't companies want to protect their intellectual property by any and all legal means? Wouldn't you be looking for a solution if someone stole from you repeatedly and shamelessly. Kinect isn't going to spy on people in their homes, you'd be truly dumb to believe that, can you imagine the EULA? If you are dumb enough to believe that Kinect is going to record the fascinating spectacle of you sitting on your couch, mouth breathing and sucking at COD, I present a solution:


----------



## Aeter (Jun 20, 2013)

Sony scared 'em DRM-less.


----------



## Chaossaturn (Jun 20, 2013)

It is good to hear that MS went back on there stupid decision, I thought that there would of only changed there shit after poor sales but nope there used common sense and did the right thing, I guess I can no longer hate on them for now but I won't forget.


----------



## Ethevion (Jun 20, 2013)

mechagouki said:


> Everyone hated MS for the DRM and the always-on and the daily check. Now everyone seems to hate them for actually listening and changing some stuff. They tried to evolve an industry which has a less definite future than it did 10 years ago and of course it was a little to much for the average gamer to grasp. Why shouldn't companies want to protect their intellectual property by any and all legal means? Wouldn't you be looking for a solution if someone stole from you repeatedly and shamelessly. Kinect isn't going to spy on people in their homes, you'd be truly dumb to believe that, can you imagine the EULA? If you are dumb enough to believe that Kinect is going to record the fascinating spectacle of you sitting on your couch, mouth breathing and sucking at COD, I present a solution:
> 
> -snip-


Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Nemesis90 (Jun 20, 2013)

Oh wow they listened to their pre-orders! It's amazing what a kind heart this company has!


----------



## Rockhoundhigh (Jun 20, 2013)

Now we have a viable console war on our hands if Microsoft hasn't already caused itself too much permanent damage.


----------



## GreatZimkogway (Jun 20, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised if this was planned from the start.  Microsoft got everyone against them, and then is able to go and say "Hey, we listened to you and changed everything you didn't like."  I still won't touch it.  Only Microsoft product I'll touch is Windows now.


----------



## eyecat14 (Jun 20, 2013)

SOMEBODY KISS ME! THIS IS A GLORIOUS DAY!


----------



## AngryGeek416 (Jun 20, 2013)

GreatZimkogway said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if this was planned from the start. Microsoft got everyone against them, and then is able to go and say "Hey, we listened to you and changed everything you didn't like." I still won't touch it. Only Microsoft product I'll touch is Windows now.


 
I won't even touch windows. Never have, never will - OSX all day.


----------



## tbgtbg (Jun 20, 2013)

Call me when you cost less than PS4 and don't still require me to connect a shitty kinect just to turn it on.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

CanuckBuck said:


> I won't even touch windows. Never have, never will - OSX all day.


Exactly. Because you're a non-socialite geek who hates Microsoft, what they stand for, and their larger demographic.

People may contend my points verbally, but subconsciously, without noticing, they'll reinforce everything I say.


----------



## Hyro-Sama (Jun 20, 2013)

So what if an individual isn't swayed to one console in particular and they just want well-made gaems? Where do they fit in?


----------



## AngryGeek416 (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Exactly. Because you're a non-socialite geek who hates Microsoft, what they stand for, and their larger demographic.
> 
> People may contend my points verbally, but subconsciously, without noticing, they'll reinforce everything I say.


 
Yes that's it you figured me out, I'd ask how much MS is paying you but I doubt you'd tell me. I've been gaming since the NES didn't buy the Xbox because it was fat and ugly and I wasn't interested in Halo, didn't buy the 360 because 70% of the consoles failed with red rings and once again I wasn't interested with anything on the console besides Dead Rising and finally I won't be buying a Xbox1 because they tried to put their hands in customer's pockets and are now asking nicely for forgiveness plus once again I'm not interested in any of the games on the Xbox1. I buy Apple computers because Apple makes a quality product made to last; I've had my imac for 8 years and my powerbook for 4 and neither have had any problems and I mean NONE. Yes Apple computers are more expensive but the quality is worth it.
I don't game on my computer and I don't do any graphic or CPU intense things but the most important reason is because the OS is simply better with no viruses, no headaches, easier to use, and more visually appealing. That's why I don't buy Microsoft products not because its the cool thing to do. Oh and by the way I'm pretty sure everyone on this site is a geek in some form what a insult that was.


----------



## grossaffe (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Exactly. Because you're a non-socialite geek who hates Microsoft, what they stand for, and their larger demographic.
> 
> People may contend my points verbally, but subconsciously, without noticing, they'll reinforce everything I say.


huh?


----------



## AngryGeek416 (Jun 20, 2013)

grossaffe said:


> huh?


 
He's super cool man don't question him


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Exactly. Because you're a non-socialite geek who hates Microsoft, what they stand for, and their larger demographic.
> 
> People may contend my points verbally, but subconsciously, without noticing, they'll reinforce everything I say.


 

I use Windows 7, yet I don't like the Xbox or any of its iterations, therefore, I clearly hate them and everything they make....SOMEONE GET THE PITCHFORKS! WE MUST BURN THE HERETIC!

Reinforce your words? This I gotta see!




CanuckBuck said:


> He's super cool man don't question him


 
Yeah, you're right, that would only anger him more.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jun 20, 2013)

awwwwww no more Microsoft is Xboned jokes.....


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 20, 2013)

Any benefits/features mention doesn't seem like they need DRM, at all.


----------



## Chary (Jun 20, 2013)

They already have proven that they can make terrible choices. Whether or not that they have changed things, doesn't matter. They've already generated bad press, not to mention, they've shown off how incredibly stupid they can be.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

Hyro-Sama said:


> So what if an individual isn't swayed to one console in particular and they just want well-made gaems? Where do they fit in?


That's impossible!

But I'm only speaking to the general demographic that indentifies with whichever console. There are always anomaly cases. If you're like that, you fit in with the level-headed, logical objectifiers.


----------



## GameWinner (Jun 20, 2013)




----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 20, 2013)

Bladexdsl said:


> awwwwww no more Microsoft is Xboned jokes.....


No, but Xboner jokes still exist; I'm sure that with the reversal news like this, many Xbox "Fans" felt a change of direction in their blood flow and may need a change of pants.




Chary said:


> They already have proven that they can make terrible choices. Whether or not that they have changed things, doesn't matter. They've already generated bad press, not to mention, they've shown off how incredibly stupid they can be.


 
While it's an unexpected thing to do something so seemingly generous, the damage has been done and it will take a long time to recover from.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

CanuckBuck said:


> Yes thats it you figured me out, id ask how much MS is paying you but i doubt u'd tell me. I've been gaming since the NES didn't buy the Xbox because it was fat and ugly and i wasnt interested in Halo didn't buy the 360 because 70% of the consoles failed with red rings and once again i wasn't interested with anything on the console besides Dead Rising and finally i wont be buying a Xbox1 because they tried to put there hands in customers pockets and are now asking nicely for forgiveness plus once again im not interested in any of the games on the Xbox1. I buy Apple computers because Apple makes a quality product made to last i've had my imac for 8 years and my powerbook for 4 and neither have had any problems and i mean NONE yes Apple computers are more expensive but the quality is worth it I dont game on my computer and i dont do any graphic or CPU intense things but the most important reason is because the OS is simple better no virus, no headaches, easier to use, and more visually appealing. That's why i dont buy Microsoft products not because its the cool thing to do, o and by the way im pretty sure everyone on this site is a geek in some form what a insult that was.


It's not really a bad thing, but it's the basis for "fanboyism".

If a console reflects the personalities of the average consumer, it's the possible way "system wars" exist. It becomes an extension of your character, and so people defend their character through defending their console.

It's not about substituting your ego to feel like you've spent your money properly. I've never seen anybody fanboy over skateboard deck brands or hockey sticks or anything... there's no disambiguous way that a skateboard or a hockey stick could reflect your personality.

Everybody in the world is a geek, but the cool people are just the ones who hide it better.


----------



## codezer0 (Jun 20, 2013)

Okay... it's a step in the right direction, but what about some form of BC? Considering they're both x86, the X1 and Original Xbox should be binary-compatible and run fine.

There's also what is basically amounting to a "Kinect tax"... and I'm not crazy about having that thing stare at me even when I'm not playing motion games that justify its presence.


----------



## Ethevion (Jun 20, 2013)

codezer0 said:


> Okay... it's a step in the right direction, but what about some form of BC? Considering they're both x86, the X1 and Original Xbox should be binary-compatible and run fine.
> 
> There's also what is basically amounting to a "Kinect tax"... and I'm not crazy about having that thing stare at me even when I'm not playing motion games that justify its presence.


Is backwards compatibility such a big deal? The 360 works fine in the latest generation you know.

I agree with the Kinect tax, but it's unavoidable if you want the console. I doubt it'll be watching you though, it's not like MS wants to see you scratch your ass while watching a cut scene. Well who knows, maybe they do. A quick and effective solution is to cover the Kinect with a piece of tape.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 20, 2013)

Here we go. Microsoft listening to their fanbase? WAT...

I'm still waiting on a few more changes before I go back.


----------



## codezer0 (Jun 20, 2013)

It is when the older console dies, and you then have no way to play the games. To date, neither X1 nor PS4 have any compatibility with their prior generations on either disc or download.


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## darkangel5000 (Jun 20, 2013)

Yeah, like, whatever man. Microsoft tried to rip off their customers with that DRM bullshit-idea - and now they're trying to lure me back with stuff that I thought of as a standard in the gamesindustry? Nice. That's it, folks. I'm sticking with my WiiU and the PC this generation. Maybe I'll buy me a PS4 when the price drops and/or games like Uncharted are out. But Microsoft? Nope. They can go back to the drawing table and learn from the mistakes they've made - maybe they can convince me again with the Xbox4...



CanuckBuck said:


> i wont be buying a Xbox1 because they tried to put there hands in customers pockets





			
				CanuckBuck said:
			
		

> OSX all day


what.


----------



## Gahars (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm actually really glad to hear this. It's awful that Microsoft thought it could get away with these shenanigans in the first place, and it's funny to see them retreat with their tails between their legs, but at least they've listened.

The Xbox One is still the weaker console overall, and I still have no interest in the thing. Still, at least the machine can be competitive now, and we all benefit from actual competition in the marketplace. Domination by one company just breeds complacency.


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## AngryGeek416 (Jun 20, 2013)

CanuckBuck said: ↑
i wont be buying a Xbox1 because they tried to put there hands in customers pockets​CanuckBuck said:
OSX all day​what.​What don't you understand? If you're insinuating Apple puts its hands in my pocket that's the farthest thing from the truth, I bought my computer 8 years ago and haven't given a dime more to Apple since then. Offering services like itunes isn't the same as forcing them down someone's throat.​


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## mechagouki (Jun 20, 2013)

tbgtbg said:


> Call me when you cost less than PS4 and don't still require me to connect a shitty kinect just to turn it on.


 
Call us when you have something to say that hasn't been said N times in this thread already.

Yawn.


----------



## AngryGeek416 (Jun 20, 2013)

mechagouki said:


> Call us when you have something to say that hasn't been said N times in this thread already.
> 
> Yawn.


 
Call us when reality hits you and you realize $100 more for a weaker console is a huge deal


----------



## The Milkman (Jun 20, 2013)

"A company actually listened to us and tried to fix their mistakes! Let's still hate them and find more reasons to be mad! Windows GAYght! GAYlo Whore! Xbox DONE!"

Can we all try not to be assholes for one moment?


----------



## Sterling (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> *snip



I think that tangent has nothing to do with the problem at hand. GBAtemp has long been a forum where everyone can express their like and dislike of any sort of game company. Despite the many people who constantly bash other systems, each one of the more reasonable suspects will happily admit to certain flaws with the system of choice.

You've been really mistaken at why customers are still outraged at Microsoft. Do I get to hit you in the face and get away with it if I simply say sorry and bandage it? No, you'd probably hit me back, or drive some other repercussion against me. There is an equal and opposite reaction for every action.

The same goes for other people here who think that Microsoft has made up for _every bit of bullshit_ they tried to push on us. A bandage is not going to return the confidence I had when the 360 was my primary console. A few sweet whisperings is not going to convince me that their system is going to stay in the right direction. If Windows 8 is _any_ indication of Microsoft's attitude towards consumers, it tells a tale of evil and indifference. Only when people voted with the money in their wallets did they start to care. Only when Apple and Linux took a noticeable chunk of their market did they care.

Microsoft loves their money, and while I can't blame them, I won't stand for shady dealings and anti-consumer tendencies in my console's code. They have not convinced me one bit that I'll be better off with their console over Sony's (who's rocky history with consumers also is worrying) or Nintendo's. Don't be an apologetic for a company who obviously cares more for the green in your pocket over your loyalty, or interests.


----------



## Gahars (Jun 20, 2013)

Also, obligatory pun time. I guess the Xbox One just became the Xbox One-Eighty!

Now everyone get in line so I can spit on you.


----------



## slingblade1170 (Jun 20, 2013)

Thank you MS! You actually listened.


----------



## IBNobody (Jun 20, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Also, obligatory pun time. I guess the Xbox One just became the Xbox One-Eighty!
> 
> Now everyone get in line so I can spit on you.


 

You're a little late on that pun...


----------



## frogboy (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks for the heads-up Microsoft... but uh, should've mentioned that BEFORE everyone preordered their PS4s.


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## The Catboy (Jun 20, 2013)

Good news for now, I still distrust  M$ and won't get this system.
Honestly I am not going to praise them for undoing something they shouldn't have done in the first place.


----------



## ggyo (Jun 20, 2013)

CanuckBuck said:


> Call us when reality hits you and you realize $100 more for a weaker console is a huge deal


$100 for a weaker console is absurd. But is it weaker? I thought the GPUs had been announced, but with the in-house Microsoft CPU, how can you compare? Also DDR3>GDDR5 in many scenarios. Lower latency, faster access times, quantity loads, etc. GDDR5 excels in loading larger files faster.


----------



## abdelmajidtolba (Jun 20, 2013)

now I can buy one now.
for ''100 pricier than ps4 thingy'' guys the day they offer free next gen cams call me ....


----------



## Ericthegreat (Jun 20, 2013)

Well it seems we have won.


----------



## J-Machine (Jun 20, 2013)

They showed themselves to be arseholes with responding to the initial backlash and since I don't like them I won't support them.

Wiiu and ouya only for me it seems.


----------



## Lestworth (Jun 20, 2013)

You know, good for M$ for doing this.

However, this does not change the fact that they were going to be doing this for the past forever. As well as the attitude of the company towards anyone that disagreed with their views. So just as someone said, putting a bandaid on a massive scar, it does not matter. Its good microsoft has FINALLY listened, but the massive negative publicity they have gained will be with them for a long time.


----------



## Haloman800 (Jun 20, 2013)

Dang. I was really wanting MicroShaft to fall flat on their faces (again). Either way, Xbox One still = crap.


----------



## grossaffe (Jun 20, 2013)

Like others have said, it hardly seems that microsoft "listened to their customers", since people had been complaining about the DRM since the minute it was announced, but until the preorder numbers of the XBONE and the PS4 came in with massively skewed numbers, they were snidely firing back at legitimate complaints.  Suddenly when the preorders come in and they see the financial hit they're taking, they suddenly want to listen to what people have been saying since the beginning.


----------



## Metoroid0 (Jun 20, 2013)

NO region lock (among other things)..wow, that's huge! 
There's got to be some catch to it... xD






If just price is good...
The first reason I Became Nintendo fan is because of price. the most cheapest and most quality made console.. and the rest is history 

But cool from Microsoft to do such things, i salute! but will not buy  (i never liked Xbone or their games..Sony..Nintendo, those are for gaming imo, for everything else there's PC  )


The Milkman said:


> "A company actually listened to us and tried to fix their mistakes! Lets still hate them and find more reasons to be mad! Windows GAYght! GAYlo Whore! Xbox DONE!"
> 
> Can we all try not to be assholes for one moment?


 
Ofc the listened because whole internet heated up to the boiling point.. blind man could see that, why not Microsoft.
They certainly don't want to loose money, but more importantly the people that give them money and WILL in the future (maybe)


----------



## Rayder (Jun 20, 2013)

They got ahead of themselves and forgot that they have to actually sell the systems first before they burn you.  There are laws against much of what they were trying to do with "boxed copy" games across many regions.  So now they have a new plan.  A plan they won't announce to anyone, it will just sorta happen and gamers won't notice until it's too late.  Already happened to the PC....

 They want to get rid of boxed copy games and go all digital to dodge those laws.   Because THEN they can (and will) burn you with all those original fees and restrictions, just like how the PC already does by having almost no boxed copies anymore and you must use Steam, Origin, GFWL, etc. to get your games. Even boxed PC games will force you to login to those.   Except with the consoles, there will likely be fewer "deals", and larger fees and tighter restrictions.

Over the next few years, you just watch as more and more games for Xbone (and PS4) WON'T have a boxed copy of their latest games, only a digitally distributed download. Don't kid yourself, it will happen. Then, once all you have is a digital download, the fees and restrictions will, by default, be in full effect, in all their sordid glory.  Oh, and don't forget to buy all that DLC to complete your initial half-game purchase.  Doesn't it just make you feel all warm and fuzzy? Yeah, no.

MS will still eventually achieve their originally stated goals.  It just won't be as easy as they thought it would. 

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that Sony's digital download fees and restrictions are already pretty much inline with MS's digital download policies. 

Mark my words, over the next few years, boxed copies of games will become more and more scarce, then your ownership rights will be eliminated by default because you no longer own a physical copy of anything but the console itself.


----------



## Silverthorn (Jun 20, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Here, a list of Xbox One problems. The crossed off ones have been fixed.
> 
> - Restrictive used game policy
> - Restrictive DRM
> ...


 

Just wanted to correct a few points:
Xbox One can indeed be turned off completely without background scanning, and *Kinect can be turned off while using the console.*
Mind you, I would still choose the PS4 over the XbOne, as it is cheaper and does what I would expect from a gaming console, but that doesn't mean the XbOne should be blamed for things it doesn't do.


----------



## shakirmoledina (Jun 20, 2013)

interesting... its quite interesting what must be going through the mind of microsoft. should we drop our pride and let ppl become happy or promote a system that will achieve better profits and be more secure?


----------



## grossaffe (Jun 20, 2013)

Rayder said:


> Mark my words, over the next few years, boxed copies of games will become more and more scarce, then your ownership rights will be eliminated by default because you no longer own a physical copy of anything but the console itself.


I'm hoping that we'll be able to stave that off for some time as a result of places that just don't have the internet infrastructure to support such a model.  But you are probably right in that being the way the industry would like to move.


----------



## Mantis41 (Jun 20, 2013)




----------



## Metoroid0 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Here, a list of Xbox One problems. The crossed off ones have been fixed.





Nathan Drake said:


> - Restrictive used game policy
> - Restrictive DRM
> - $100 more than a stronger game console
> *- System always on*
> ...


 
Of course not, you just unplug it


----------



## Chocolina (Jun 20, 2013)

Its kind of sad that PS4 and X1 are boasting the ability to run a used game as a feature, when really, its doing nothing different than what systems have been doing since the beginning.


----------



## Metoroid0 (Jun 20, 2013)

Chocolina said:


> Its kind of sad that PS4 and X1 are boasting the ability to run a used game as a feature, when really, its doing nothing different than what systems have been doing since the beginning.


 
hey I like the name *X1* it sounds cool  they should consider that.

Aaaah, what happened to all of those original and meaningful deep names like Nintendo (the company) GameCube (the console) so, nintendo gamecube or nintendo Wii, nintendo gameboy etc.. or sega genesis, saturn, dreamcast etc...

How original is name PlayStation 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.....? sounds boring to me.
But XBOX is kinda interesting.. XBOX (first gen..omg i can even said one  ), Xbox 360, and for next xbox I was expecting something original.. it didn't have to be called xbox imo, as long as it's microsoft's it could be.. Microsoft X1

is money everything these days, where's creativity etc..?! 

I noticed sequels in everything, not just consoles names. there is halo (game) 1, 2, 3
At least for metroid there was fusion, zero mission, super, prime (yeah, i know 1,2,3 -.-)


Cmo'n designers of games and consoles, be creative 

I know, off topic, but I couldn't shake the feeling, I just can not NOT notice that these days..


----------



## Chocolina (Jun 20, 2013)

Then you should spread the use of X1 and hope it sticks. I've been calling it X1 since the name was announced to shorten the spelling. Its no different than people calling Xbox 360 the x360 or just 360.


----------



## Silverthorn (Jun 20, 2013)

Metoroid0 said:


> Of course not, you just unplug it


 

You won't need to unplug it:
http://gbatemp.net/threads/microsof...ations-are-history.349818/page-8#post-4683544


----------



## Arras (Jun 20, 2013)

Metoroid0 said:


> hey I like the name *X1* it sounds cool  they should consider that.
> 
> Aaaah, what happened to all of those original and meaningful deep names like Nintendo (the company) GameCube (the console) so, nintendo gamecube or nintendo Wii, nintendo gameboy etc.. or sega genesis, saturn, dreamcast etc...
> 
> ...


Prime was not actually a canon game IIRC, so it would have been weird if they named it "Metroid 5" or whatever.  You're right about the rest though, I think the original Metroid (and Zero Mission) is 1, Super Metroid was 3 and Fusion was 4. Metroid II was obviously 2, and I'm not sure where Other M goes. 3.5? Or pretend it doesn't exist.

Ontopic: I'm actually somewhat disappointed by this. Not because I want those "features", but because I'm curious to see what would have happened and because I don't like backpedaling if things do not go as expected. (but really, what WERE they expecting? Unless this was their plan all along to make it seem like they were willing to dump the DRM and to divert attention from the limited launch and Kinect. Conspiracy mode activated)


----------



## Metoroid0 (Jun 20, 2013)

Arras said:


> Conspiracy mode activated)


 
You shout to xbox: XBOX (spy) on! lol


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 20, 2013)

> Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One


 
The good news here is that is good to know that if we complain with a lot of friends (really, It must be million of friends) someone would listen.

The bad news is that they listened, but they did only half of measures needed.


----------



## LockeCole_101629 (Jun 20, 2013)

Am I the only one who actually want them to keep their idea and implement it?
just to see how much people actually hate it and no one buying it.

this next generation battle is already beyond ridiculous imo.
no one talking about the games, specially the exclusives.

handled consoles are more appealing to me than next gen consoles because of the games.


----------



## AbyssalMonkey (Jun 20, 2013)

Rayder said:


> Over the next few years, you just watch as more and more games for Xbone (and PS4) WON'T have a boxed copy of their latest games, only a digitally distributed download. Don't kid yourself, it will happen. Then, once all you have is a digital download, the fees and restrictions will, by default, be in full effect, in all their sordid glory. Oh, and don't forget to buy all that DLC to complete your initial half-game purchase. Doesn't it just make you feel all warm and fuzzy? Yeah, no.
> 
> MS will still eventually achieve their originally stated goals. It just won't be as easy as they thought it would.
> 
> ...


 
While I agree with most of what you said, I still have some hope that laws will eventually catch up and there will be such a thing as digital goods.  Otherwise in the face of the oncoming torrent sweeping the world known as the internet, certain future opportunities will become impossible.  I'm an idealist, I'd like to believe that Amazon is the first primitive online supermarket, and that eventually the internet will by nature become a healthy capitalist economy.  On the other hand, the internet could be mankind's stupidest invention yet.


----------



## Minox (Jun 20, 2013)

Sterling said:


> The first post by Jason Schreler sums up why this model was doomed from the start. Without retail partners, Microsoft would not get the benefit of advertising in store. We would all be up a creek without a paddle if Microsoft had successfully taken the market like this. Wanna know why Steam Games are so cheap? Because they're not sold in physical form in retail.


Except what you said just now is false. There are actually quite a few Steam games sold in retail.


----------



## lokomelo (Jun 20, 2013)

LockeCole_101629 said:


> Am I the only one who actually want them to keep their idea and implement it?
> just to see how much people actually hate it and no one buying it.
> 
> this next generation battle is already beyond ridiculous imo.
> ...


about games I can say that xbone start with a good line up in my oppinion. But people love sequels more they love their own mother, so new franchises got no appeal at all, it is like "Ryse? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO I want a new zelda game".
Exclusives are the reason why Nintendo sell more with weak (and cheap) hardware, but I dont believe that xbox would do a good job with weaker (and more expensive) hardware relying on its exclusives.


----------



## T-hug (Jun 20, 2013)

I still won't be buying one MS' greed has already been shown!
I also love the first reply of this thread, made me lol.



In the above video angry joe asks nelson if it would be possible to turn off the 24hr internet check to which nelson smugly replies ARE YOU A PROGRAMMER JOE? How do you know it's easy to disable the check in?
Lol.


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## SifJar (Jun 20, 2013)

Sterling said:


> The first post by Jason Schreler sums up why this model was doomed from the start. Without retail partners, Microsoft would not get the benefit of advertising in store. We would all be up a creek without a paddle if Microsoft had successfully taken the market like this. Wanna know why Steam Games are so cheap? Because they're not sold in physical form in retail.


So you're saying the success of this model relies on being digital *only*? Because funnily enough I don't think that would have gone down too well either with consumers.

Plus, it's absolute nonsense, all the "big name" games for PC are available in physical form at game stores and online retailers. It's mostly just the smaller indie titles that are digital only, as they have no infrastructure to distribute physically. Steam allows those games to be distributed at all (in the same way as services like Xbox Live Marketplace, PSN Store and WiiWare etc.), but the presence of those games is certainly not solely responsible for the success of Steam. It owes a whole lot to making the "big name" games available in a simple, straight forward manner including automatic updates, easy installation, competitive pricing etc. You can even install some games from physical discs bought in a store, and then they become pretty much indistinguishable from a digital copy (sound familiar?).


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## Gahars (Jun 20, 2013)

Microsoft Won't Confirm The Policy Changes Are Permanent

There's no guarantee that they'll pull the rug under their customers, of course, but there's no guarantee they won't either.

It would be kind of amazing if they did that, though. The Xbox One-Eighty would become an Xbox 360.


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## AbyssalMonkey (Jun 20, 2013)

Thug said:


> I still won't be buying one MS' greed has already been shown!
> I also love the first reply of this thread, made me lol.
> 
> -snip-
> ...


 
Of course it is, did we learn nothing from SimCity?


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 20, 2013)

I can't believe mic thought they would have gotten away with that DRM bs


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## fluffykiwi (Jun 20, 2013)

I wouldn't expect the Kinect to be dropped anytime soon from the XBox as it sound integral to the concept of the console, especially the all in one idea.

*There IS the option to turn off the Kinect within the settings if you wish.*.

The $100 difference for the XBox 1 can easily be justified by the inclusion of the Kinect, and the added functionality it gives. There are bigger price differences between manufacturers of most almost identical consumer goods, within similar price brackets, e.g. Phones, TVs, PCs, Laptops. (Compare the price of similar specced TVs from Samsung, LG, Panasonic, etc.)

Although some people do not want Kinect bundled with every console, stores are supposedly reporting they are getting a significant number of people adding the Playstation Camera, $59, into their PS4 pre-order, so there is an audience, even within Sony customers.

A quick google search shows sales of Eyetoy for PS2 had topped 10 million by 2008, Playstation Move had shipped 8 million by 2011 and Kinect had topped sales of 24 million this year. This is despite a relatively low number of games supporting those peripherals. People liked the idea, but developers didn't fancy aiming resources at only a percentage of their normal audience.

If you want publishers to develop for certain hardware, which a significant portion of your customer base want as shown by previous peripheral sales, then having the hardware in every console is the way to do it as shown by the Wii which sold "pretty well" and contrary to what some people say had some good games with good motion controls.

I expect a majority of XBox 1 versions of AAA games will have Kinect features included, and some of those might actually be good, which may change the minds of a few of the Kinect haters.

From some of the reactions to Kinect you'd think that no-one buys tech with built in cameras or microphones. Except for mobiles, tablets, pads, laptops, Smart TVs, etc. 

btw anyone complaining about always on, should maybe consider selling their idea of how the Xbox 1 is going to get electricity if it is switched off at the mains or unplugged. Always on if you wish to integrate the TV Kinect functionality 24/7, with energy saving powerdown modes, seems sort of like what almost everyone already does with TVs, PCs, etc.

Always online would have sucked hugely, but always on (unless you switch it off) seems pretty standard.

Simple guide:
If you can turn any appliance on/off with your remote control it is always on!
If there a little light showing the appliance is in standby mode, then it is always on!
If there is a mechanical switch or a plug/wire you can use, then it is probably not always on!


I'm not likely to buy either Xbox 1 or PS4 anytime soon, but at least the competition between them is back on.

It will be interesting to see what difference the specs make, e.g. DDR 3 memory plus onboard ESRAM for XBox1 vs better DDR5 memory without ESRAM for PS4. Whether the additional CUs or DDR5 bandwith within PS4 is utilised well, or can compensate for the higher general latency of that memory type.

My guess is still plenty for the fanboys of each to argue over for the next decade or so, even once the prices start to change..

*edit*

I wonder if I was the only one expecting a Microsoft spokesman to say " and we'd have got away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids."


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## PityOnU (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm not sure why so many people had such a huge issue with this. Aren't the top selling games of all time on Xbox all Call of Duty and sports games? I've never known anyone to play either of those for the single player.

Of course, I can see how people in other countries were upset about the restricted launch due to the lack of servers for DRM checks in those countries (which means now the launch isn't really restricted anymore, is it?), but, I mean, fuck guys, most of you posting in this thread are Americans (according to your little flag icon, anyway) and obviously have an internet connection. I don't think I ever recall turning off internet access on my Xbox 360 to play my single player games, nor would I really know how.

Basically all this means to me is that there is hardly any innovation coming with the next generation of consoles because the most vocal and supposedly progressive people on the internet are actually borderline xenophobic and have a "it works fine just the way it is so why change it" attitude. I would not even consider getting this console now because of all the cool features that have been killed because gamers having an always on internet connection is apparently a poor assumption.


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## chartube12 (Jun 20, 2013)

You're delusional if you think Microsoft's DRM store would be anything like steam. Steam works partly because they are competing against other digital online pc stores. Microsoft would of had a pure monopoly with their drm store and no reason to offer cheaper prices. Completely and utter control over customers.


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## Rydian (Jun 20, 2013)

ggyo said:


> $100 for a weaker console is absurd. But is it weaker? I thought the GPUs had been announced, but with the in-house Microsoft CPU, how can you compare? Also DDR3>GDDR5 in many scenarios. Lower latency, faster access times, quantity loads, etc. GDDR5 excels in loading larger files faster.


Nothing's in-house.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/ps4-xone-cpu-architectures-models-examined.348408/


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 20, 2013)

Team Fail said:


> Wow. Microsoft actually listened to something.


 
That's what happens when you instantly lose hundreds of thousands of customers for being a dick company. You listen for once.


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## Obveron (Jun 20, 2013)

Well I had ruled out getting the XBone when I heard about the DRM nonsense.  Now, I've gone from firmly in the Playstation 4 camp to back on the fence.  I immensely prefer my 360 to my PS3.  Of course I'll wait to see which one has the exclusives I want, but there's no way I'm buying both this time around, I'm not paying for both XBLive and PSN.


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## Saturosias (Jun 20, 2013)

I feel like they introduced a sh_tload of crappy features then "resolved" them just to draw attention away from the "Kinect must still be plugged into the console at all times" clause... I'm betting a vast majority of people who pre-order because M$ "fixed" their console will entirely forget about this privacy issue.


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## Ethevion (Jun 20, 2013)

Saturosias said:


> I feel like they introduced a sh_tload of crappy features then "resolved" them just to draw attention away from the "Kinect must still be plugged into the console at all times" clause... I'm betting a vast majority of people who pre-order because M$ "fixed" their console will entirely forget about this privacy issue.


 
For the paranoid ones like yourself.
http://ca.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Xbox_One_Kinect


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## Deleted User (Jun 20, 2013)

Sagat said:


> For the paranoid ones like yourself.
> http://ca.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/Xbox_One_Kinect


how is he being paranoid microsoft is apart of prism


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## Saturosias (Jun 20, 2013)

Sagat said:


> For the paranoid ones like yourself.


 
I see they were very trustworthy with my Skype conversations as well.


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## Ethevion (Jun 20, 2013)

Saturosias said:


> I see they were very trustworthy with my Skype conversations as well.


 



> To be fair,on Skype's privacy policy, it is clearly stated that Skype has the right to scan and review your instant messages and SMS:
> Skype may use automated scanning within Instant Messages and SMS to (a) identify suspected spam and/or (b) identify URLs that have been previously flagged as spam, fraud, or phishing links. In limited instances, Skype may capture and manually review instant messages or SMS in connection with Spam prevention efforts.


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## Saturosias (Jun 20, 2013)

Sagat said:


> -snip-


 
Manually reviewing for spam prevention holds higher morals than invading privacy for "national security reasons" (i.e. NSA), I suppose.


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## porkiewpyne (Jun 20, 2013)

Not sure if this was brought up already. Was skimming through an article which ranted/bitched about Microsoft amending the DRM policies. Guess you can't please everyone.

Then again, this is Kotaku we are speaking of. So meh.


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## WiiUBricker (Jun 20, 2013)

Too late MS. The PS4 is still way better than your Xbone.


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## Ethevion (Jun 20, 2013)

Saturosias said:


> Manually reviewing for spam prevention holds higher morals than invading privacy for "national security reasons" (i.e. NSA), I suppose.


 
It's in the privacy policy. By using Skype you agree to it. It doesn't matter what any company does, it's written for you to see and you choose to use it.


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## Mantis41 (Jun 20, 2013)

Metoroid0 said:


> hey i like the name *X1* it sounds cool  they should consider that.


 
The Xbone shall be henceforth known as the XBox 180.


----------



## PityOnU (Jun 20, 2013)

For any current PlayStation Eye or Xbox Kinect users:

Do you ever unplug the device?


----------



## chartube12 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nope. But I do keep my systems' power unplugged til I use them. It is unconfirmed but I have spotted several post claiming if you leave the power unplugged more then a few hours from the xbone, you'll need to go online to reactivate it. But that's beside the point and topic at hand. I keep my consoles unplugged to lower energy usage. I started doing this in like 2005. Used less enough power to cut 50 dollars a month off my electric bill.


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## Rydian (Jun 20, 2013)

But the xbone isn't out yet, how could anybody test that? :\


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## PityOnU (Jun 20, 2013)

chartube12 said:


> Nope. But I do keep my systems' power unplugged til I use them.


 
Okay, but you would have still been able to do that, right?



chartube12 said:


> It is unconfirmed but I have spotted several post claiming if you leave the power unplugged more then a few hours from the xbone, you'll need to go online to reactivate it. But that's beside the point and topic at hand.


 
I had never heard that, and can't really stipulate a reason why that would be the case. But as you said, it was unconfirmed, so it could go either way.



chartube12 said:


> I keep my consoles unplugged to lower energy usage. I started doing this in like 2005. Used less enough power to cut 50 dollars a month off my electric bill.


 
Where I live in the US, the average cost of electricity is ~$0.175 per kWh. Assuming it is similar for you, you mean to tell me that your IDLING consoles were using upwards of 285 kWh of electricity per month? Holy shit, how many do you have!? That's like a midrange gaming PC running maxed out 24/7.

But back to the topic of my original question, I don't see how having the Kinect required will affect you in any way compared to what you have now, disregarding of course the original cost of the equipment. Where is the privacy concerns with the current Kinect?


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 20, 2013)

Carnivean said:


> Microsoft: "We fuck you as hard as we can get away with."



Isn't that the motto of every remotely successful company ever?

Re kinect as a spy toy.....
Mood music


http://wiiudaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/wii-u-inforgraphic.jpg

Is that a camera I see in the absolutely mandatory/bundled game pad?

Anyway good going GBAtemp, hardly the most enlightened conversation we have ever had but not incontestable GBAtemp golden threads material either.


----------



## chartube12 (Jun 20, 2013)

PityOnU said:


> Where I live in the US, the average cost of electricity is ~$0.175 per kWh. Assuming it is similar for you, you mean to tell me that your IDLING consoles were using upwards of 285 kWh of electricity per month? Holy shit, how many do you have!? That's like a midrange gaming PC running maxed out 24/7.


 

I have my xbox slim now but in 2005 I had one of the original xb 360. Remember these were confirmed to use as much power as a non-green refrigerators while idle. Something around like 150.

Maybe it is the old wiring in this old house but we have gotten complains from the power company ever since we moved in. They say we use 3x the amount of power per month as the neighbors. Even if true, they are mostly elderly people who sleep 24/7. I forget the exact amount people have been charging per KWh but I know it is as low as .18 cents. More around 55 cents and it we were told it is going up again in January by another 5 cents.


----------



## PityOnU (Jun 20, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> Anyway good going GBAtemp, hardly the most enlightened conversation we have ever had but not incontestable GBAtemp golden threads material either.


 
If that was you who removed the lengthy and inappropriate metaphor that was going on in this thread earlier, TYVM


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2013)

I would just like to say that I went to a Microsoft store opening event today. I won't delve into details, but at one point, they raffled off a pre-order for the Xbox One. When the announcer came onto the mic to start talking about it, there was zero crowd response. When they announced they'd be raffling off a pre-order, maybe five people made noise (note, there were easily around 800 people present). When it was actually won by someone, the only applause was for the fact that the person won the raffle prize and it was common courtesy. After that, nobody even cared to bring the system up.

Also, talking to actual gamers in line, nobody was impressed or even considering the Xbox One even with being fully aware of the policy changes. This simply goes to show that even if you backtrack, once the mistake is made, there's no full recovery.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> I would just like to say that I went to a Microsoft store opening event today. I won't delve into details, but at one point, they raffled off a pre-order for the Xbox One. When the announcer came onto the mic to start talking about it, there was zero crowd response. When they announced they'd be raffling off a pre-order, maybe five people made noise (note, there were easily around 800 people present). When it was actually won by someone, the only applause was for the fact that the person won the raffle prize and it was common courtesy. After that, nobody even cared to bring the system up.
> 
> Also, talking to actual gamers in line, nobody was impressed or even considering the Xbox One even with being fully aware of the policy changes. This simply goes to show that even if you backtrack, once the mistake is made, there's no full recovery.



You may well have a point but a thursday crowd for a store opening (in what is most likely the morning) may not be the most representative crowd.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 20, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> You may well have a point but a thursday crowd for a store opening (in what is most likely the morning) may not be the most representative crowd.


Consider how the Xbox One is being marketed though: if in 800 people barely a handful are interested enough in any of the multitude of features it attempts to offer to even give a light cheer, you're likely doing something wrong. To note, the primary attendance for the reason of this specific launch (free concert tickets incentive) helped to lend itself to many teens that would likely be gamers to some degree being in the crowd.


----------



## chartube12 (Jun 20, 2013)

A friend of mine is actually getting one...well his gf is buying it for him as a 30th birthday gift, anyways, he claims they had to call 7 different gamestops to find one taking pre-orders. This was before the announcement of drm being removed. Someone is definitely buying these then. On the other hand, gamestop was only taking 3 pre-orders for each location.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 20, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> This simply goes to show that even if you backtrack, once the mistake is made, there's no full recovery.


 
I hope Microsoft realizes this. They pooped on their customers. Now they have a long way to regain my trust.


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## Elliander (Jun 20, 2013)

According to the source there will still be one online requirement:

"After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again."

It's probably the case that they already began physical production which means that the units will be physically shipped with those limitations in place and will need a firmware update to remove them. This is both good and bad news. It's bad news in that it will give them plenty of opportunity to close any security holes that will exist with the launch firmware, but it's good news because if someone compares the firmware with and without these implementations it could reveal useful information about the way it works.

At the very least it seems to imply that you will need to go online to create your profile when you first set it up. Unlike the Xbox 360 which can be set up without ever going online.  There is also the fact that the Xbox One (stupid name) has cloud computing capabilities which means that a user who wants to play a single player game that needs cloud computing will still need to go online, which can make the future of backup loaders difficult to imagine working.

In any case, I still won't be buying one and probably won't buy a PS4 either. At least not for a few years. Backwards compatibility for older games is my preference.


----------



## DSGamer64 (Jun 21, 2013)

Pretty pathetic of Microsoft to backtrack on their initial plans, it makes them look like hypocritical. Oh well, I guess they realized it was a stupid idea.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 21, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> I guess they realized it was a stupid idea.


no they realized after getting laughed out of e3 and seeing ps4 pre-orders sky rocket over their crappy tv box that they would never get away with it. so after shitting a tonne of bricks they panicked and changed it


----------



## Sterling (Jun 21, 2013)

SifJar said:


> So you're saying the success of this model relies on being digital *only*? Because funnily enough I don't think that would have gone down too well either with consumers.
> 
> Plus, it's absolute nonsense, all the "big name" games for PC are available in physical form at game stores and online retailers. It's mostly just the smaller indie titles that are digital only, as they have no infrastructure to distribute physically. Steam allows those games to be distributed at all (in the same way as services like Xbox Live Marketplace, PSN Store and WiiWare etc.), but the presence of those games is certainly not solely responsible for the success of Steam. It owes a whole lot to making the "big name" games available in a simple, straight forward manner including automatic updates, easy installation, competitive pricing etc. You can even install some games from physical discs bought in a store, and then they become pretty much indistinguishable from a digital copy (sound familiar?).



The "big name" games may also be available in the stores, but that's simply because their console counterparts are being sold beside them. Steam being digital only also means gamers don't to go up to a store, but many do it because there are physical copies being sold,. Midnight releases are a great way to find like minded people.

Also, have you noticed the part about big name games being sold at full price (new) on Steam? The reason behind that is indeed due to big name retailers whinging the prices in order to remain competitive. There is absolutely no need for a game to be sold at sixty dollars a pop if they're in a digital market like Steam. Your entire argument for this system Microsoft wanted to implement is so that games would decrease in price when the only time we've seen a title not selling at the established price is if it was unpopular and sold like crap, or if it was aging and new copies were still on the shelf. Precedent still debunks this notion, and until all consoles go digital only, the perfect digital model will not come true.


----------



## WhiteMaze (Jun 21, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> Pretty pathetic of Microsoft to backtrack on their initial plans, it makes them look like hypocritical. Oh well, I guess they realized it was a stupid idea.


 
Have always loved my Xbox's and my Windows. But I have to agree, Microsoft is becoming more pathetic each year. Both in the company's development and in its decisions. Old uncle Bill Gates knew how to run things. He's probably laughing at them right now.


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 21, 2013)

Can't really blame them, there not going to release a console that wouldn't sell.
_And no i'm not a fanboy, I don't even own an xbox/xb360. PC all the way._


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## ggyo (Jun 21, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> I would just like to say that I went to a Microsoft store opening event today. I won't delve into details, but at one point, they raffled off a pre-order for the Xbox One. When the announcer came onto the mic to start talking about it, there was zero crowd response. When they announced they'd be raffling off a pre-order, maybe five people made noise (note, there were easily around 800 people present). When it was actually won by someone, the only applause was for the fact that the person won the raffle prize and it was common courtesy. After that, nobody even cared to bring the system up.
> 
> Also, talking to actual gamers in line, nobody was impressed or even considering the Xbox One even with being fully aware of the policy changes. This simply goes to show that even if you backtrack, once the mistake is made, there's no full recovery.


I almost never believe alleged internet stories, and this one is grouped with the majority that I read.

A crowd of 800 will be naturally very loud. How could you single out 5 people out of a loud crowd of 800 who showed reaction to an announcer?

See, it was your type who propagated the lie that WiiU shelves were barren at release and being sold at at high velocity and volume.



chartube12 said:


> A friend of mine is actually getting one...well his gf is buying it for him as a 30th birthday gift, anyways, he claims they had to call 7 different gamestops to find one taking pre-orders. This was before the announcement of drm being removed. Someone is definitely buying these then. On the other hand, gamestop was only taking 3 pre-orders for each location.


I don't believe this story either. Walking through the mall, I saw pre-order signs up at every electronics retailer. I'm assuming they would take them down if they could not longer take pre-orders...

And also, are there even maximum capacities to pre-order numbers?

I'm not shooting the messenger. I understand this isn't your apparative story.


----------



## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> I almost never believe alleged internet stories, and this one is grouped with the majority that I read.
> 
> A crowd of 800 will be naturally very loud. How could you single out 5 people out of a loud crowd of 800 who showed reaction to an announcer?
> 
> See, it was your type who propagated the lie that WiiU shelves were barren at release and being sold at at high velocity and volume.


Yes, sorry, my life is a lie. Please, just shut up and go away.


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## ggyo (Jun 21, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Yes, sorry, my life is a lie. Please, just shut up and go away.


Well since your life is the story of a Microsoft store opening... then I'm so sorry.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Well since your life is the story of a Microsoft store opening... then I'm so sorry.


Free concert tickets to a band I've wanted to see for years are a great incentive, the conniving bastards.


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## ggyo (Jun 21, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Free concert tickets to a band I've wanted to see for years are a great incentive, the conniving bastards.


Oh... sounds like a big event, then. What band? And I bet there's video footage online somewhere in that case.


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Oh... sounds like a big event, then. What band? And I bet there's video footage online somewhere in that case.


Weezer. And probably somewhere online, at latest maybe tomorrow. There was a lot filming going on, pictures, etc.


----------



## Chary (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> I don't believe this story either. Walking through the mall, I saw pre-order signs up at every electronics retailer. I'm assuming they would take them down if they could not longer take pre-orders...
> 
> And also, are there even maximum capacities to pre-order numbers?
> 
> I'm not shooting the messenger. I understand this isn't your apparative story.


 Yes, there are preorder caps. At least, in the Houston area. At my local GameStop, Animal Crossing New Leaf had an allotted 23 copies. 5 if you didn't pre order. I only know this, because they had the games in a stack behind the counter. I inquired if that was all the copies they had in the store. They said that most Gamestops in the area got 25/30 copies each. Back in the day of the Nintendo Wii, GameCrazys across my city only had 4 available consoles each. 3 of them being allotted for preorder. I'm pretty sure preorder caps exist.


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## ggyo (Jun 21, 2013)

Nathan Drake said:


> Weezer. And probably somewhere online, at latest maybe tomorrow. There was a lot filming going on, pictures, etc.


A Weezer concert only had an 800 person turnout in a public venue? First off, I'm mad jealous you got to see them live for free.

So according to sources, the first 1000 customers got free tickets, while the first 200 of that thousand got afterparty tickets as well (but tickets were purchasable, meaning the complete turnout could have been upwards of 1000). Microsoft also gave out $1.23 million in grants to non-profit organizations in the area,

"I won't delve into details, but..." Yeah, well you should have. You made it sound like a large focus of the event was the Xbox One... but they're giving out grants, they have rock bands playing, it's at an outside venue, etc.

So they surprised the croud with one Xbox One raffle, and people cheered for the winner out of courtesy. It's not the Oprah Winfrey show where the whole audience gets a new Toyota. C'mon now. You've lied out of omission of facts.

http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2013/06/microsoft_celebrates_downtown.html
http://www.songkick.com/concerts/16606379-weezer-at-pioneer-place-shopping-mall


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## Nathan Drake (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> A Weezer concert only had an 800 person turnout in a public venue? First off, I'm mad jealous you got to see them live for free.


Lots of people couldn't or weren't willing to wait in a line for upwards of 15 hours for free tickets. It did take a little dedication.


ggyo said:


> So according to sources, the first 1000 customers got free tickets, while the first 200 of that thousand got afterparty tickets as well (but tickets were purchasable, meaning the complete turnout could have been upwards of 1000). Microsoft also gave out $1.23 million in grants to non-profit organizations in the area,


Tickets were not purchasable, though, and it was only worth waiting in line if you were in the first 200. Otherwise, you could have come after the crowd was gone and still gotten a couple normal tickets for free. As well, the grants were talked about as much as the Xbox One was.


ggyo said:


> "I won't delve into details, but..." Yeah, well you should have. You made it sound like a large focus of the event was the Xbox One... but they're giving out grants, they have rock bands playing, it's at an outside venue, etc.


For the actual store opening itself (seeing as the concert is actually tomorrow), the raffles were a large part of the incentive for every one else in line who waited. As well, they really tried to get the crowd excited for the Xbox One while they were raffling it, and there weren't bites. People were more excited for a pair of headphones or a general 360/Kinect bundle than the One. The noticeable dive in excitement from the start to the end of the Xbox One talk was hard to miss.


ggyo said:


> So they surprised the croud with one Xbox One raffle, and people cheered for the winner out of courtesy. It's not the Oprah Winfrey show where the whole audience gets a new Toyota. C'mon now. You've lied out of omission of facts.


No, I stated that the crowd was noticeably not excited for the Xbox One. Compared to absolutely every other part of the event, that was the least excited that the crowd had been. I'm honestly too tired to entertain your ridiculous posts any further, but just know, nobody gave a shit about the Xbox One. In a crowd that largely contained the demographic they seek to market to, that's bad.


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## jonesman99 (Jun 21, 2013)

I have two friends. One is a marketing major and the other is a Mass Comm major with a concentration in Public Relations. I'll get them to put in their resumes at Microsoft... #causetheyneedhelp


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## XDel (Jun 21, 2013)

They will just change the policy at a later time.


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## abdelmajidtolba (Jun 21, 2013)

don't know about you guys but I'm leaning toward a XBOX one now, design wise that sober look is awesome, makes me remember carbon fiber tuned cars.


----------



## leion8000 (Jun 21, 2013)

yet...





ilman said:


> Meh, didn't care about DRM that much.
> What I care about still isn't fixed - there are no good GAEMZ for the thing.


----------



## Lestworth (Jun 21, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Walking through the mall, I saw pre-order signs up at every electronics retailer. I'm assuming they would take them down if they could not longer take pre-orders...
> 
> And also, are there even maximum capacities to preorder numbers?


 
Well let me respond, working with a few companies when I was trying to get jobs, retailers during pre-order days typically leave up these signs, despite already being booked out. Cashiers, and people who work in the Electronics department are warned when the preorders are full, and then they start giving out rain-checks to those that may want to take them. So yes if the Electronics retailer is smart, they will still advertise it, yet warn it's a rain-check so you can reserve a future system/game/ect when it becomes available. These are my experiences with basically every job I have held in the electronics department (miserable crappy job fyi).

Yes, there are always a maximum amount for any store on highly sought after games or console for preorder. Where I live, both Blops1-2 and Battlefield 3 were maxed out in preorders overnight because each store only gets a certain number of games / consoles shipped to them. It is not an indefinite demand / supply route. The publishers make a certain amount come release day, and continue to pump them out afterwards. Each store that demands for copies / systems are then given a certain amount according to their location in the city / world. A higher dense populated city will gain more preorder copies then a rural area for obvious reasons.


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## SifJar (Jun 21, 2013)

Sterling said:


> Your entire argument for this system Microsoft wanted to implement is so that games would decrease in price when the only time we've seen a title not selling at the established price is if it was unpopular and sold like crap, or if it was aging and new copies were still on the shelf. Precedent still debunks this notion, and until all consoles go digital only, the perfect digital model will not come true.


I don't recall saying anything about prices decreasing, and it certainly is *not* my "entire argument". Digital has other advantages besides the potential price drops. And I agree all consoles should go digital only, but they do not *have* to for it to work, in the same way that pretty much all music is still sold as CDs in retail stores, but digital distribution is *better*, so it's still successful.


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## Sterling (Jun 21, 2013)

SifJar said:


> I don't recall saying anything about prices decreasing, and it certainly is *not* my "entire argument". Digital has other advantages besides the potential price drops. And I agree all consoles should go digital only, but they do not *have* to for it to work, in the same way that pretty much all music is still sold as CDs in retail stores, but digital distribution is *better*, so it's still successful.


Digital may be better in an ideal future, but at the moment the industry is anything but ideal. Let the PC scene grow into a proper model and keep the old model with the consoles. Transition slowly and not as fast as a meth addict on fresh drugs.


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## BORTZ (Jun 21, 2013)

Man, now this means there might actually be a choice between what I buy now.


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## The Real Jdbye (Jun 21, 2013)

Thank fucking god. Not that I'm planning on getting one anyway, but it's good to see that M$ actually care about their sales.
Region free is nice too.


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## Bobbyloujo (Jun 21, 2013)

Thank goodness they actually listened to what their customers wanted. Region free is pretty cool too.


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## The_Cooker (Jun 21, 2013)

Team Fail said:


> Wow. Microsoft actually listened to something.


Now, if we can convince Microsoft to change windows back, Microsoft would be great again


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 21, 2013)

Bobbyloujo said:


> Thank goodness they actually listened to what their customers wanted. Region free is pretty cool too.


Probably the same "region free" policy that they had with the 360.  Games can be region free, but probably won't.


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## The Riolu (Jun 21, 2013)

I can't believe I'm saying this but for having both current gen consoles, this next-gen war is making the Wii U and the Ouya more interesting to me.


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## EvilMakiPR (Jun 21, 2013)

Staff edit. Though pictures work we find that text is nicer.



			
				Heartbroken MS employee said:
			
		

> The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library.  Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world.  There was never any catch to that, they didn't have to share the same billing address or physical address it could be anyone.  When your family member accesses any of your games, they're placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour.  This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to.  When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game.  We were toying around with a limit on the number of times members could access the shared game (as to discourage gamers from simply beating the game by doing multiple playthroughs). but we had not settled on an appropriate way of handling it.  One thing we knew is that we wanted the experience to be seamless for both the person sharing and the family member benefiting.  There weren't many models of this system already in the wild other than Sony's horrendous game sharing implementation, but it was clear their approach (if one could call it that) was not the way to go.  Developers complained about the lost sales and gamers complained about overbearing DRM that punished those who didn't share that implemented by publishers to quell gamers from taking advantage of a poorly thought out system.  We wanted our family sharing plan to be something that was talked about and genuinely enjoyed by the masses as a way of inciting gamers to try new games.



Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 22, 2013)

EvilMakiPR said:


> Staff edit. Though pictures work we find that text is nicer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
No, I'm sorry, I'm not buying that.

To blame the second-hand industry for the fact that gaming developers are dying, is ridiculous. The fault is not with the second-hand industry. It never was.

You have the used cars industry, you have the used books industry, you have the used clothing industry, and you also have and will *ALWAYS *have, used games industry. This is something that will never go away, because it was created for those who *cannot afford* to pay full prices, but they can still enjoy their games/cars/clothes/books/etc.

ALL of those areas have a second-hand industry. And they are doing fine.

The problem here is only one: *PRICE*.

You can argue whatever you want, fact of the matter is: nowadays most people do not pay or can't pay 69.99€ for a video-game. This is not 1995. 69.99€ buys you half a month of food, which is fairly more important than gaming.

The economy has *changed* over the last 20 years. But have their prices? Nope. Developers still want to get payed 20€ an hour, when most people earn 5€. That is the only problem with the gaming industry.

Why do you think Steam is getting bigger everyday and getting more and more people to join? Valve is growing so fast, they are even going to launch a gaming platform for crying out loud.

Why? Really? You don't know?

*PRICE.*

Yes most of the time the prices on steam are fairly equal or with little difference to a retail store. But fact of the matter is, most people and myself, only purchase on steam when there are offers and sales of 50% or 75% off. Because that is all I can *afford *if I want to enjoy gaming. They have a pretty good deal going on *EVERY SINGLE DAY.*

So please, Microsoft, do not argue that the Second-Hand industry is killing the developers. No. The developers have to adapt to a whole new world economy. Not the economy of 20 years ago.

The day Microsoft, and / or other developers begin to think a little bit about the gamers, and drop the prices to reasonable standards, I will give up on hacking, flashcards, and used games right away.

Because I also like new things. And if a new game, costs 20€ or 30€ instead of 70€, I will without thinking twice, buy it new.

Valve is growing because Valve understands that selling a game for 69.99€ to 10 people is very profitable.

But what they understand even better, is that selling that same game for 29.99€ to *100* people is a Jackpot.

They keep their costumers happy and their wallets filled with gold.


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## ov3rkill (Jun 22, 2013)

This is indeed a good news. 
Anyway, what do you think is the most anticipated exclusive game for XONE?


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## KingVamp (Jun 22, 2013)

Sterling said:


> Digital may be better in an ideal future, but at the moment the industry is anything but ideal. Let the PC scene grow into a proper model and keep the old model with the consoles. Transition slowly and not as fast as a meth addict on fresh drugs.


 
There is a good way to lead into digital,but Microsoft path, DRMing everything, is not the way.

Problems with digital is, trading/selling/sharing, people without/bad internet and availability of those digital (As in, how long will these games stay on the shop.)

Looks like that first one wouldn't be a problem in the future and that without all this DRM nonsense.
That second one going to have to work itself out overtime.
Not sure about the last one, but I read it as a complaint.


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## Katakana (Jun 23, 2013)

Some MS fans almost begun to defend this DRM system, but suddenly MS cancelled it. It's so funny to watch this circus.


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## kehkou (Jun 23, 2013)

Not to mention you still need internet to set the damn thing up; there are heaps of people I know who wont be able to play out-the-box without doing Wi-Fi hunting.
[New Mexican]"Hey neighbor, may I use your internet and TV for a second...Oh, you only have a CRT, never mind..."[/New Mexican]


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## FAST6191 (Jun 23, 2013)

kehkou said:


> Not to mention you still need internet to set the damn thing up; there are heaps of people I know who wont be able to play out-the-box without doing Wi-Fi hunting.
> [New Mexican]"Hey neighbor, may I use your internet and TV for a second...Oh, you only have a CRT, never mind..."[/New Mexican]



If the phone shop will offer to set up a phone for me, the TV shop will send people round to calibrate it for me, the bed shop will set up a bed for me and so forth I imagine a game shop will offer to set up a game console for me. Not an ideal situation by any means but not an insurmountable problem either.


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## kehkou (Jun 23, 2013)

FAST6191 said:


> If the phone shop will offer to set up a phone for me, the TV shop will send people round to calibrate it for me, the bed shop will set up a bed for me and so forth I imagine a game shop will offer to set up a game console for me. Not an ideal situation by any means but not an insurmountable problem either.


That would prolly piss of the yanks who work for Gamestop or the like if you asked them to set it up for you...at least at my local Gamestop. They suck and are unknowlegeable i.e. "I can't buy this PS2 from you without the original HDMI cable that came with it". dafuq?


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 23, 2013)

kehkou said:


> "I can't buy this PS2 from you without the original HDMI cable that came with it". dafuq?


 
Thank you for making milk come out of my nose.

I've been laughing at that for a good 15 min :'D


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## kehkou (Jun 23, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> Thank you for making milk come out of my nose.
> 
> I've been laughing at that for a good 15 min :'D


  Yeah...wasn't funny at the time though...I almost got banned from that store. Idiots.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 23, 2013)

kehkou said:


> "I can't buy this PS2 from you without the original HDMI cable that came with it"


Are you serious...?


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## kehkou (Jun 23, 2013)

Sadly, yes...They are not true gamers, just salespeople. I consider their policies to be a scourge of the gaming universe, NOT a friend to the gamers.


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## totalnoob617 (Jun 23, 2013)

too little too late MS
this would be the equivalent of someone trying to buy say a tv off craigslist, you show up to the address to buy the tv and someone jumps out with a knife demands all your money, then you pull out a glock and say no I don't think so, and then the person says well you're still going to buy the tv right?


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 23, 2013)

kehkou said:


> Yeah...wasn't funny at the time though...I almost got banned from that store. Idiots.


 
Idiots indeed. That is ridiculous.

And yes, my local gaming store suffers the same problem. They are complete morons. I thought GAMERS worked at gaming stores. Not people that play Angry Birds on their Android devices..


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## kehkou (Jun 23, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> Idiots indeed. That is ridiculous.
> 
> And yes, my local gaming store suffers the same problem. They are complete morons. I thought GAMERS worked at gaming stores. Not people that play Angry Birds on their Android devices..


I went to sell a gamecube the next week, and they refused to buy ANYTHING from me. eventually I guess they forgot me; years later I sold them the most expensive PS3-2 model at the time...for 48 bucks.

But I digress...back on topic before we piss off Costello the frickin forum lion!


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 23, 2013)

kehkou said:


> Sadly, yes...They are not true gamers, just salespeople. I consider their policies to be a scourge of the gaming universe, NOT a friend to the gamers.





WhiteMaze said:


> Idiots indeed. That is ridiculous.
> 
> And yes, my local gaming store suffers the same problem. They are complete morons. I thought GAMERS worked at gaming stores. Not people that play Angry Birds on their Android devices..


Gaming elitism! Gaming elitism everywhere!

I mean I understand that GameStop employees can be annoying. But that's no reason to bash or question their status as "true" gamers. Plus you have to remember that most of the guys there are minimum wage. If you were in their position, would you be motivated to better educate yourself on every aspect of gaming including ones you didn't care about (think of a genre or system you don't care for, as an example)? Remember, you likely wouldn't get a raise for doing so.


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## kehkou (Jun 24, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> Gaming elitism! Gaming elitism everywhere!
> 
> I mean I understand that GameStop employees can be annoying. But that's no reason to bash or question their status as "true" gamers. Plus you have to remember that most of the guys there are minimum wage. If you were in their position, would you be motivated to better educate yourself on every aspect of gaming including ones you didn't care about (think of a genre or system you don't care for, as an example)? Remember, you likely wouldn't get a raise for doing so.


I think knowing 'your stuff' should be a prerequisite, besides, I've known true gamers to work there, but they few and far between.


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## totalnoob617 (Jun 24, 2013)

kehkou said:


> I think knowing 'your stuff' should be a prerequisite, besides, I've known true gamers to work there, but they few and far between.


 
I don't know I went to lamestop last week and I had to wait like an hour in line with 1 person in front of me trading in a ps3, the guy behind the counter would not shut up talking to the guy trading in his ps3, when I heard they were offering him $2 for his move controller I offered to buy it for $5, but the employee would not allow it in the store,  finally after waiting like an hour to buy a used hdmi, I heard the price, $22 dollars for a USED hdmi cable, which I had just priced at the cvs next door for $12, I told them that I could buy a brand new one for 10$ less and they tried to tell me they offered a return warranty or some bullshit LOL, so I walked out LOLing


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## kehkou (Jun 24, 2013)

totalnoob617 said:


> I don't know I went to lamestop last week and I had to wait like an hour in line with 1 person in front of me trading in a ps3, the guy behind the counter would not shut up talking to the guy trading in his ps3, when I heard they were offering him $2 for his move controller I offered to buy it for $5, but the employee would not allow it in the store,  finally after waiting like an hour to buy a used hdmi, I heard the price, $22 dollars for a USED hdmi cable, which I had just priced at the cvs next door for $12, I told them that I could buy a brand new one for 10$ less and they tried to tell me they offered a return warranty or some bullshit LOL, so I walked out LOLing


ha-ha! Lamestop! I proposed to buy stuff from people selling and offering more than GS would...and less than what GS would flip it for, just to stick it in there face (and pay less/ offer him more).
Sounds like you should have invited him to step outside...they can't stop you outside.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 24, 2013)

kehkou said:


> I think knowing 'your stuff' should be a prerequisite, besides, I've known true gamers to work there, but they few and far between.


I would agree with you, if they would actually pay decently for such a prerequisite. Think about it this way: you have two potential job offers. Both pay minimum wage, but one requires special unpaid knowledge and studying outside of work time. Which one is a better offer, considering that?

You see what I mean? I mean, I definitely agree they should know their stuff. I'm just saying that they don't get paid to know that stuff, so I can't blame them for not educating themselves out of some ethical obligation or whatever to the company that doesn't increase their pay accordingly.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 24, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> Gaming elitism! Gaming elitism everywhere!
> 
> I mean I understand that GameStop employees can be annoying. But that's no reason to bash or question their status as "true" gamers. Plus you have to remember that most of the guys there are minimum wage. If you were in their position, would you be motivated to better educate yourself on every aspect of gaming including ones you didn't care about (think of a genre or system you don't care for, as an example)? Remember, you likely wouldn't get a raise for doing so.


 
I understand what you're saying, believe me, I do. But to employ a person that thinks the PS2 came with a HDMI cable is just irresponsible. A person working in a gaming store should now the basics. If they make that sort of mistakes, who knows what other catastrophes they cause?


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 24, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> I understand what you're saying, believe me, I do. But to employ a person that thinks the PS2 came with a HDMI cable is just irresponsible. A person working in a gaming store should now the basics. If they make that sort of mistakes, who knows what other catastrophes they cause?


Agreed. Some things should just be obvious from working there.


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## kehkou (Jun 24, 2013)

xwatchmanx said:


> I would agree with you, if they would actually pay decently for such a prerequisite. Think about it this way: you have two potential job offers. Both pay minimum wage, but one requires special unpaid knowledge and studying outside of work time. Which one is a better offer, considering that?
> 
> You see what I mean? I mean, I definitely agree they should know their stuff. I'm just saying that they don't get paid to know that stuff, so I can't blame them for not educating themselves out of some ethical obligation or whatever to the company that doesn't increase their pay accordingly.


And for that they lost my patronage; I'd rather buy from walmart chanters. Also, I said *prerequisite* i.e. *Already know all required knowledge at time of hire.* No extra studying. Not to be 'Game guru's' but to at least know a ps2 doesn't even support HDMI.
Besides how many non-dev jobs are out there that pay for special knowledge of games, Reviewer comes to mind.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 24, 2013)

kehkou said:


> And for that they lost my patronage; I'd rather buy from walmart chanters. Also, I said *prerequisite* i.e. *Already know all required knowledge at time of hire.* No extra studying.
> Besides how many non-dev jobs are out there that pay for special knowledge of games, Reviewer comes to mind.


It doesn't matter if they should have the knowledge before hire. The point is that at that point, it's no longer an entry level job, and hence they should be paid more than an entry level wage.


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## kehkou (Jun 24, 2013)

Well it costs them customers, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. I know of no jobs (in NM at least) that would consider knowing what plug goes where "special paid knowledge". Its just common sense, even for technophobes.


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## wookiejedi (Jun 24, 2013)

idk if I'll buy the xbone or the ps4, I am leaning towards the wiiu first because mario but I like the xbone name just because it lends itself to many catch phrases.

GET BONED, WITH THE XBONE!


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 24, 2013)

wookiejedi said:


> idk if I'll buy the xbone or the ps4, I am leaning towards the wiiu first because mario but I like the xbone name just because it lends itself to many catch phrases.
> 
> GET BONED, WITH THE XBONE!


 
Well I agree with part of that.

I'm buying a WiiU as soon as possible simply because its price does not make you drop your pants.

As soon as the Xbone and PS4 do that, I might buy both of them, in time. I'll probably leave the PS4 for last.

But buying an Xbone because it lends itself catchy phrases is one of those mistakes that might make you roll around in your grave, 80 years from now friend.

I wouldn't ._.


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## ggyo (Jun 24, 2013)

Katakana said:


> Some MS fans almost begun to defend this DRM system, but suddenly MS cancelled it. It's so funny to watch this circus.


People of all "fan" followings have supported DRM. I still support DRM. There has been a large miseducation of DRM.


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## SifJar (Jun 24, 2013)

Katakana said:


> Some MS fans almost begun to defend this DRM system, but suddenly MS cancelled it. It's so funny to watch this circus.


I'm no "MS fan" (I use Windows 7, but only really because it came with my laptop and it's widely used so has plenty of software; I can't think of any actual MS software I ever use. Got an original Xbox recently at a car boot sale, purely because it was cheap with a bunch of games so I figured "why not?"), but their "DRM" was a fantastic step forward and now they've taken a big step back and ruined all their progress, destroying several of the best features of the Xbox One (IMO).


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## KingVamp (Jun 24, 2013)

ggyo said:


> People of all "fan" followings have supported DRM. I still support DRM. There has been a large miseducation of DRM.


Yes, because pretty much unnecessarily blocking used games and always online should be supported.


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## Qtis (Jun 24, 2013)

A step forwards, two steps backwards. While the online only requirement was a bad pull from Microsoft, the other features were interesting, if not revolutionary in many ways. Now that they reverted their stance on the online gaming side, they basically trashed quite a few good options. I doubt many people would complain about the online requirement if it wasn't as strict as once a day. Once a week or once a month (Spotify for the latter, anyone?) would suffice to deter possible abuse and make gaming still possible in limited locations (places without constant internet access, such as summer cottages, military sites, even some homes).




ggyo said:


> People of all "fan" followings have supported DRM. I still support DRM. There has been a large miseducation of DRM.


I support DRM entirely for the reasons that it's supposed to do. Protect the content from illegal sharing and access (mostly bootlegs). The means I don't support. I don't know how people of all fan followings have supported DRM. Many have had to deal with it, but rarely have I seen or heard someone saying "Good that we have this online check for this single player game, otherwise someone would rip me or take something away from me". Instead it's more likely to be "Oh no, not this thing again".

Except it's mostly the people who legitly buy the games that suffer from the limitations of DRM. Thus I can see no reason for DRM from the consumer point of view. Want to play single player offline? No can do (C&C4) except with a modified game install that disables required online. Forgot your account password to service X that isn't used anymore due to the company going under? No gaming, unless you manage to get a cracked game executable.

As for publisher/developer, yeah. The game will be secure with a certain DRM scheme for about a few hours, a couple of days max depending on the game type. While piracy should be condoned on from quite a few points of view, hackers and crackers make it possible to enjoy games like many people want them to. Without restrictions and offline. Serial numbers? Keygens since the time fire was invented. Online only? The new Sim City game ring a bell. 

DRM was an idea that could and can be something great. As long as the main goals is to make it harder for people to use the software, only pirates will profit from this. I've got quite a few good examples of wanting to get a game to work as it's supposed to. Sometimes it's a problem with a modern OS, sometimes it's a problem with some kind of security measure on the executable, sometimes a problem with a disc. Sometimes I can't even get the game to work without getting a modified game install in the first place, even though I got the thing in physical format that was bought on launch. So yeah, there has been a large miseducation of DRM. It's got nothing to give in its current form, but it does take from the customer. Some companies make it less intrusive (Steam for example), but it was utter shit in the beginning too. Valve learned a lot from their mistakes. Also companies like GoG and Humble Bundle can sell games without DRM and make profit (+ support charity in the case of HB)?

Everyone should have a possibility of voicing out their opinions, but trying to make people support DRM due to a large miseducation is laughable. The technologically illiterate could believe you, but I doubt anyone on this site is even close to that level.


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## Rydian (Jun 24, 2013)

Qtis said:


> DRM was an idea that could and can be something great.


I fail to see how the idea of people who made an object getting to tell people who use the object what they can and cannot do with it could ever be "something great".

*The idea revolves around protecting incoming for the originator or publisher, nothing good for the user is involved.*


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## Qtis (Jun 24, 2013)

Rydian said:


> I fail to see how the idea of people who made an object getting to tell people who use the object what they can and cannot do with it could ever be "something great".
> 
> *The idea revolves around protecting incoming for the originator or publisher, nothing good for the user is involved.*


Indeed as I said, the *idea* is good, but not the *means*. The publisher or developer has a right to their income, but currently the way DRM is implemented, it's at the expense of the user. That is something I cannot see as good and do not want. If there was an actual benefit for the user (fantastic online elements like some MMORPGs (WoW (p2p), Guild Wars (f2p (!) servers) and many others)), the DRM could be seen as moot (for example online is the main driver compared to offline). If for example the single player portion is affected by it in the way of loosing access due to reason X, it's bull. Complete and utter bull.


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## whinis (Jun 24, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Indeed as I said, the *idea* is good, but not the *means*. The publisher or developer has a right to their income, but currently the way DRM is implemented, it's at the expense of the user. That is something I cannot see as good and do not want. If there was an actual benefit for the user (fantastic online elements like some MMORPGs (WoW (p2p), Guild Wars (f2p (!) servers) and many others)), the DRM could be seen as moot (for example online is the main driver compared to offline). If for example the single player portion is affected by it in the way of loosing access due to reason X, it's bull. Complete and utter bull.


Even the Idea isn't really that good, the Idea being that they treat everyone as criminals to attempt to prevent the few who are. I personally have yet to see a working DRM scheme for either the publishers or the customers hence why there is such a large movement of gamers that want no DRM at all.

Where it gets even worse is that the publishers often like to say that the DRM is stopping/ has stopped piracy (even when its cracked before the game is released) when in reality all it has done is costed the developers and publishers X million to implement just to be broken before the game is released with several studies showing games with DRM are not pirated less than games without DRM. So the "idea" is costing not only development time to implement but also money that could have been better focused into making better games/ better systems.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 24, 2013)

Rydian said:


> *The idea revolves around protecting incoming for the originator or publisher, nothing good for the user is involved.*


 
This man right here, knows what he says.

You can discuss it however you want. The only revolutionary idea here, is to make *MORE *money, while back-raping *YOU *the buyer.

I puked at Microsoft's Xbox One DRM implementation since it was announced and I *STAND *by that statement. I'm not a 5 year-old that does not know which side to defend. They can withdraw all the DRM's they want.

The harm, and the bad image for company, *has* been done.

EDIT:



whinis said:


> Even the Idea isn't really that good, the Idea being that they treat everyone as criminals to attempt to prevent the few who are.


 
Thank you. Agreed.

Doing that was never a solution for anything.


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## Rydian (Jun 24, 2013)

Qtis said:


> Indeed as I said, the *idea* is good, but not the *means*. The publisher or developer has a right to their income, but currently the way DRM is implemented, it's at the expense of the user. That is something I cannot see as good and do not want. If there was an actual benefit for the user (fantastic online elements like some MMORPGs (WoW (p2p), Guild Wars (f2p (!) servers) and many others)), the DRM could be seen as moot (for example online is the main driver compared to offline). If for example the single player portion is affected by it in the way of loosing access due to reason X, it's bull. Complete and utter bull.


But those examples aren't DRM.  Always-online _for an MMO_ is a technical/security requirement, and is not being forced onto the user when it's not needed.


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## ggyo (Jun 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> But those examples aren't DRM. Always-online _for an MMO_ is a technical/security requirement, and is not being forced onto the user when it's not needed.


The problem with the perception of the Xbox One's DRM was that hard copies of software rights would not be resellable or shareable, but that's not entirely true.

The Xbox One technically converts hard copy software rights into digital copy software rights, which are tradable between anybody and everybody. Then you can give the hard copy away too. This prevents duplicating rights by having hard copy and digital copy working in unison. This ALSO allows exclusively digital copies to be tradable too, which is a step up from Sony, and seven hundred from Nintendo's cheap ass stuck-to-the-console digital terms.

The best part of this middle-man eliminating system is that you could go online and search to trade with anybody who has said game you're looking for. I imagine it would be like the GTS in Pokémon games. You can search up a Pokémon you want, and the person who is offering that Pokémon may have selected a selection of Pokémon they would exchange for said game. If there were options of 3-for-1, 2-for-1, 1-for-1 trading, etc., that would just make things even more flexible.

And then Family Sharing is just charity. You get to share any game within your library with up to 10 people, which can be anybody, and they can share with you their game library. The only clause is that no single game in a library can be played simultaneously, so there still has to be two permission rights within the aggregated game libraries. Imagine that. A group of 10 active gamers who Family Shared would have a colossus library.

So in reality, the only way the Xbox One's DRM is detrimental is the necessity to be connected online once a day (which is barely a problem to anybody), and used game retailers would have to adapt to the way trading games would work.

When an Xbox One user traded in games, they'd have to take their gamertags on record so that when another customer purchased the used games they traded in, they would have to contact the original owner to have the hard copy software rights to be transferred to them. The problem is there's no way to enforce the original owner to transfer hard copy software rights.

Gamer>Gamer is more efficient and cost effective for us than Gamer>Used Game Retailer>Gamer.


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## Rydian (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> The problem with the perception of the Xbox One's DRM was that hard copies of software rights would not be resellable or shareable, but that's not entirely true.
> 
> The Xbox One technically converts hard copy software rights into digital copy software rights, which are tradable between anybody and everybody. Then you can give the hard copy away too. This prevents duplicating rights by having hard copy and digital copy working in unison. This ALSO allows exclusively digital copies to be tradable too, which is a step up from Sony, and seven hundred from Nintendo's cheap ass stuck-to-the-console digital terms.
> 
> ...


... opposed to just having the disc you can do whatever with, whenever, without having to pay fees or have Microsoft's permission.

"You can share games with your family!" - And did you know you can also play video games with THREE DEE GRAPHICS?  It's true!


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## JoostinOnline (Jun 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> And did you know you can also play video games with THREE DEE GRAPHICS? It's true!


YOU LIE!!!


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> The problem with the perception of the Xbox One's DRM was that hard copies of software rights would not be resellable or shareable, but that's not entirely true.
> 
> The Xbox One technically converts hard copy software rights into digital copy software rights, which are tradable between anybody and everybody. Then you can give the hard copy away too. This prevents duplicating rights by having hard copy and digital copy working in unison. This ALSO allows exclusively digital copies to be tradable too, which is a step up from Sony, and seven hundred from Nintendo's cheap ass stuck-to-the-console digital terms.
> 
> ...


 
I may be wrong in this, but I highly doubt that was Microsoft's goal.

I'm reading too much fairness, and too much money loss for Microsofty in your post. And Microsofty *never *had a "we love our costumers so much, we make them give us less money" policy..

Not even Steam is doing that, and they have a far less greedy record than Microshit.

Bottom line is, there is too much money loss. I'm not seeing them "allowing" people to trade a game for another one.

Let's look at it this way:

I *want *Left 4 Dead 2. I have a list of games I am willing to trade. Let's say I find a guy interested in one of my listed games. He contacts me and trades his Left 4 Dead for my Dead Space (just an example). It's all very good and awesome. The only problem here?

*No one* has profited from that except for the 2 people involved in the trade, you and the person you traded with. You each got what you want, and both Microsoft and the game developers *lost *money, because otherwise, you would have *bought* Left 4 Dead 2.

So in short, yes I agree that this is the future of gaming. Yet, I do not believe Microass is the one to implement that system. Nor do I see any of that happening for a long time (unfortunately).

Just my 2 cents.


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## ggyo (Jun 25, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> *-snip-*


Do you read? Anything? Ever? Your typical, uneducated internet vocabulary... get original. That was Microsoft's goal. It's what they stated, but you were too lethargic to read, so you went on the second-hand source information of internet memes and forum ramblings.

1. Microsoft is one of the most philanthropic profitable hardware/software companies in the world.
Google search...
Microsoft Charity - 31.3 million results
Sony Charity - 15.2 million results
Nintendo Charity - 4.3 million results
Apple Charity - 77.1 million results
Samsung Charity - 24.8 million results

Oh, and Valve (Steam) Charity - 2.7 million results. Steam is able to charge such a subsidized price because they can cut out the cost of retailers, packaging and booklets, disc mediums, etc. Microsoft could have created a similar ecosystem of software, and it would have worked. The Xbox One DRM was nowhere as restrictive as the already so successful ecosystems that I mentioned, including Steam.

There is no money lost. There's money saved from eliminating the paradigm of a gamer trading in three games for one at Gamestop for one game instead of directly to another gamer for one game.

The scenario you brought up is exactly what Microsoft wanted. If it was just as detrimental as used game retailers, Microsoft would not have went through the bad press that is guaranteed with DRM announcements. The proposed DRM wasn't positive for Microsoft's profit margins, but it was positive to consumers. Gamer>gamer is better than gamer>gamestop>gamer.

I think that's a revelation as to how aware they are of the consumer's wants. They just didn't realize that the consumer isn't aware of the consumer's wants, and the consumer burned them for it.


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## Chary (Jun 25, 2013)

Microsoft had such a tight leash on its system. Having their version of DRM was a slap to the face of their customers. I find it funny that people say that MS changed the policies of the Xbone, because they care about the consumers. Obviously, they don't. They just saw the potential money loss, and had to change, lest they lose potential buyers the the PS4.


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## Rydian (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Steam is able to charge such a subsidized price because they can cut out the cost of retailers, packaging and booklets, disc mediums, etc. Microsoft could have created a similar ecosystem of software, and it would have worked. The Xbox One DRM was nowhere as restrictive as the already so successful ecosystems that I mentioned, including Steam.


... seriously?


There's nothing stopping Microsoft from selling games online at a cut cost like Steam does.  _In fact they have had a system in place for years (BXLG/Marketplace) where they have BEEN selling 'indie' and cheaper games_ (like Minecraft, which was only available in the marketplace for a long time)... and they've been doing it on the 360 without the always-online DRM.
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/P...-Edition/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584111f7
etc.


-





https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555
And you can stay offline as long as you want.


BTW Steam allows you to have your games installed on multiple machines, (you just can't be logged-in/playing on more than one at a time).
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8963-EIKC-3767


Jeeze, no wonder you think the DRM is needed... you have no clue that what you're talking about is already working just fine without it!


EDIT: Made the post a bit prettier.


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## air2004 (Jun 25, 2013)

The Xbox shun


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Do you read? Anything? Ever? Your typical, uneducated internet vocabulary... get original. That was Microsoft's goal. It's what they stated, but you were too lethargic to read, so you went on the second-hand source information of internet memes and forum ramblings.
> 
> 1. Microsoft is one of the most philanthropic profitable hardware/software companies in the world.
> Google search...
> ...


 
First of all, no need to be this rude, as I was not with you. And people wonder why internet flaming happens..

Second of all, the amount of charity each company does is by no means, a viable way to evaluate a company, at least to my eyes.

Microsoft or Apple can do *ALL *the charity they want, I don't care. They sell their products at prices sometimes way beyond their competition. So with that amount of profit, why shouldn't they donate more?



WhiteMaze said:


> *I may be wrong in this*, but I highly doubt that was Microsoft's goal.


 
And finally, third of all, you accuse me of "not reading anything"? Well good sir, had you actually *READ* what I wrote, this could have been avoided.

Now have a good day.


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## ggyo (Jun 25, 2013)

Rydian said:


> ... seriously?
> 
> 
> There's nothing stopping Microsoft from selling games online at a cut cost like Steam does. _In fact they have had a system in place for years (BXLG/Marketplace) where they have BEEN selling 'indie' and cheaper games_ (like Minecraft, which was only available in the marketplace for a long time)... and they've been doing it on the 360 without the always-online DRM.
> ...


How do you write that last sentence and not feel embarrassed?

1. Game retailer dependency, like Gamestop, is stopping them.

2. Just like Steam, you could go offline on the Xbox One. Just like Steam, you need to sometimes be online to verify things.

3. BTW the Xbox One's DRM allows you to have your games installed on multiple machines (up to 10 with Family Sharing), you just can't be logged-in/playing on more than one at a time.

Haha, like umm ok yeah hohohehehe alright. Go read a fucking book.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> How do you write that last sentence and not feel embarrassed?
> 
> 1. Game retailer dependency, like Gamestop, is stopping them.
> 
> ...


 
GBAtemp members are quite polite, I see..


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## ggyo (Jun 25, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> First of all, no need to be this rude, as I was not with you. And people wonder why internet flaming happens..
> 
> Second of all, the amount of charity each company does is by no means, a viable way to evaluate a company, at least to my eyes.
> 
> ...


Seeing as how much Microsoft and Bill Gates has done for the world, from innovating and influencing software and the video game industry, to charitable efforts internationally (mostly this), it's pretty ignorant to call them greedy, and offensive to make poor -play-on-words of their name.

The amount of charity a company does is a reflection of their morality. And Microsoft's continuation of philanthropy, DESPITE being majorly viewed as a sinister corporation of avarice, and not shooting their charitable acts into the limelight to gain favor is part of what makes me respect them so much.

Microsoft -
Windows computers are cheaper (while being more powerful) than the competition.
The Xbox 360, for its value, is cheaper than the competition.
Windows software is cheaper (and more developed and powerful) than the competition.
Windows Phones are cheaper (and as powerful) than the competition.
Windows tablets are cheaper (and more powerful and run full Windows, a full OS) than the competition.

But you're judging Microsoft because the Xbox One is more expensive than the PS4.

I actually read what you wrote. And I'm certain it gave me a learning disability.



WhiteMaze said:


> GBAtemp members are quite polite, I see..


It's mostly me. I'm a very reactional prick.


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## Rydian (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> 1. Game retailer dependency, like Gamestop, is stopping them.


It's not stopping Steam or PSN.



ggyo said:


> 2. Just like Steam, you could go offline on the Xbox One. Just like Steam, you need to sometimes be online to verify things.


False and false.

1 - The One had no offline mode, it would demand to check once every 24 hours whether the user would have liked it or not.  If it could not attempt to check, it would stop you from playing the existing games.  This behavior was outlined on Microsoft's site and in their press releases.

2 - Steam's offline mode will run indefinitely.  When in offline mode no game updates are done, nothing is checked for, and _it will not demand to reconnect after a set period_.  You can play the installed games as much as you want.  If you want to install a new game, update a game, or buy something new you need to connect to the internet, but that's obviously an actual requirement.




ggyo said:


> 3. BTW the Xbox One's DRM allows you to have your games installed on multiple machines (up to 10 with Family Sharing), you just can't be logged-in/playing on more than one at a time.


I mentioned that as a note that the 24-hours check and additional DRM was not required, like you seemed to think it was.



ggyo said:


> Haha, like umm ok yeah hohohehehe alright. Go read a fucking book.


Uncalled for.  Watch it.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 25, 2013)

ggyo said:


> Seeing as how much Microsoft and Bill Gates has done for the world, from innovating and influencing software and the video game industry, to charitable efforts internationally (mostly this), it's pretty ignorant to call them greedy, and offensive to make poor -play-on-words of their name.
> 
> The amount of charity a company does is a reflection of their morality. And Microsoft's continuation of philanthropy, DESPITE being majorly viewed as a sinister corporation of avarice, and not shooting their charitable acts into the limelight to gain favor is part of what makes me respect them so much.
> 
> ...


 
If you had any idea what it is like to live in a lower-class economy and amongst people that do not have much economic power you would not have these opinions. But of course, everyone is entitled to their own.

Despite me really wanting to answer some of those statements, I will not discuss this further, so we can avoid more unnecessary head-bumping.



ggyo said:


> I actually read what you wrote. And I'm certain it gave me a learning disability.


 
Again, I don't think you did. I wrote at the beginning of my post: "*I MAY BE WRONG IN THIS*".

I'll make sure to make it bold text next time.


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## Amber Lamps (Jun 25, 2013)

all of the companies are this way and to single out one of them is absurd.  Nintendo cares about their customers when they send a free memory card which virtually cost them nothing when shipping an RMA console back.  And Nintendo cared a lot about their customers when they charged 50 bucks per game for over a decade.  And sony cared when they didn't tell their customers about the breach.

They are all out there to maximize profit and minimize losses.  I'm not saying that there's a huge fault here but it is kinda silly to state whether or not a large business cares about people.  Businesses don't work that way.

If Nintendo had their way there'd be little (sega) to no competition any longer and they would be reaping in billions of dollars again.  And they wouldn't be giving out freebies.



Chary said:


> Microsoft had such a tight leash on its system. Having their version of DRM was a slap to the face of their customers. I find it funny that people say that MS changed the policies of the Xbone, because they care about the consumers. Obviously, they don't. They just saw the potential money loss, and had to change, lest they lose potential buyers the the PS4.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 25, 2013)

Amber Lamps said:


> They are all out there to maximize profit and minimize losses. I'm not saying that there's a huge fault here but it is kinda silly to state whether or not a large business cares about people. Businesses don't work that way.


 
Glad to see some people have their eyes wide open in this forum.


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## ggyo (Jun 26, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> If you had any idea what it is like to live in a lower-class economy and amongst people that do not have much economic power you would not have these opinions. But of course, everyone is entitled to their own.
> 
> Despite me really wanting to answer some of those statements, I will not discuss this further, so we can avoid more unnecessary head-bumping.
> 
> ...


It's very unfortunate that people have to live in lower-class economical conditions, but their priorities don't include luxurious purchases such as the Xbox One, or any few hundred dollar console at all. You're right. It is my opinion that Microsoft outclasses most companies and corporations in the world in philanthropy, but it's not like it's a disputable opinion. Microsoft is JUST better... than mostly everybody.

That's a given, but you didn't express your "may be wrong's" in a non-dictating, proselytizing manner.


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## WhiteMaze (Jun 26, 2013)

ggyo said:


> It's very unfortunate that people have to live in lower-class economical conditions, but their priorities don't include luxurious purchases such as the Xbox One, or any few hundred dollar console at all. You're right. It is my opinion that Microsoft outclasses most companies and corporations in the world in philanthropy, but it's not like it's a disputable opinion. Microsoft is JUST better... than mostly everybody.
> 
> That's a given, but you didn't express your "may be wrong's" in a non-dictating, proselytizing manner.


 
I'm glad you understand that.

Well sorry, not my intention then.


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## PityOnU (Jun 26, 2013)

Whether for good or bad, I think we can all agree that Microsoft's original stance would have brought some much needed change to a stagnating gaming industry.

Guess we'll have to wait another seven years to see if anything changes next go around.


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## Katakana (Jun 28, 2013)

SifJar said:


> destroying several of the best features of the Xbox One (IMO).


You've believed in cloud computing on Xbox One? LOL.


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## xwatchmanx (Jun 28, 2013)

Katakana said:


> You've believed in cloud computing on Xbox One? LOL.


I think it's a really cool idea personally, just too soon. Astounding internet just isn't widespread enough.


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## Amber Lamps (Jul 5, 2013)

WhiteMaze said:


> Glad to see some people have their eyes wide open in this forum.


 
I forgot to mention Atari because Atari seemed to try to dip into the till all along.  Atari 2600 was nearly abandoned in a mid-aisle space in Toys R Us in the late 80s so they were still selling product and then of course later on they came out with the blunderous Atari Jaguar which wasn't even close to as good as a regular SNES deck.

But yeah Nintendo does more for people now because they have too much competition.  However it also looks like Nintendo has the best titles for any of the three new consoles out.  The other two are too saturated with jRPGs and crappy COD and whatnot rehash FPSes.

At least PS4 has Diablo III although people will laugh at that.  But oh well.

So we have Destiny FPS on both of the top tier consoles and that is sort of cool.. I mean if I got back into FPS gaming mode I'd probably want that one.  But I am hoping for Sony exclusives that are not FPS... maybe put another time crisis game, tekken, who knows..  but god they need to stop flooding all the fps and rpg junk it is quite uninteresting.


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