# Geohot has set a Legal Defense Fund



## Nujui (Feb 20, 2011)

From his website:
Media, I need your help. This is the first time I have ever asked. Please, if you support this cause, help me out and spread the word.
I want, by the time this goes to trial, to have Sony facing some of the hardest hitting lawyers in the business.
Together, we can help fix the system


Donations here are for legal defense ONLY
I checked with my lawyers before setting this up
If you have another substantial way to donate aside from money, let me know

tl;dr
Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY OWN PS3. Help me own them in court

Sony are bullies
Sony doesn't care if what you did was legal, if they don't like it, they sue. Sony tried to sue a guy for getting his AIBO to do non Sony approved tricks, making it apparent that they don't really care about piracy, they care about control. In (Sony v Bleem), Bleem was the winner on all counts, but the high cost of a legal defense shut them down. Fortunately, that suit helped set precedent on the legality of emulators. I would hate to lose this case due to resource starvation, and with the support of the masses, I won't. Lets turn the bully back on itself. This case has the ability to set a huge precedent for consoles and all closed systems to come. The other two should be begging Sony to back off.

Sony sued the wrong guy
I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone's copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it's paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.
My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all previous cases (or, in reverse), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play "super mario world, an unauthorized game" on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?
fail0verflow's goal was even nobler than mine. They wanted to give you back a feature Sony illegally stole, Linux on your PS3. It's shameful on Sony's part that they are being sued at all. If you have a problem with pirates, sue them, don't sue people who point out your shortcomings.

Why should I care about your personal legal troubles?
You shouldn't. For example, if I was taken to court for sex crimes in Sweden, I would never ask for donations. But this case isn't about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren't afraid to stand up for them.

Why should I trust you? I just saw you trying to rap battle Sony
My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it's not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play, and itching to get my hands on the Next GEOHOT Project.

Why did you wait until now to set this up?
I didn't want to be trigger happy, and thought the suit might go away quickly. Also, I had to consult with my lawyers about how to do this. It's been over a month, and it looks like this is going to be a drawn out case. I am in this for the long haul. I am very serious ethically when I take donations, for all iPhone work I only accepted after the fact, here after the fact is too late. Now I am pot committed so to say. 

How much should I donate?
Put it this way, Sony has 5 lawyers, I have 2. I'd like to level the playing field, and really get some hard hitters in there. I have already racked up over 10k in legal bills; donate whatever you feel like. Leftover donations at the end of all this will be donated to the EFF.

What if I want to donate more than I feel comfortable sending through PayPal?
I'm excited! Email me, we'll figure it out.

Why doesn't the EFF fund this?
Ask them. They have offered to provide some legal help though, which is much appreciated.

Donate to help you, you're the reason I can't play Modern Warfare now…
No, I'm not. Kakaroto explains this really well here. I have never played PS3 online ever. Frankly I'm amazed by the apparent ease with which these cheats were created, security 101, why is the security in the client anyway? I had no idea this would happen, and am in full support of the cheaters being permabanned from PSN.

I'm a poor college student, what can I do to help?
I feel you, don't worry. Spread the word. Let people know how you feel about what Sony is doing. Let Sony know how you feel about what Sony is doing.

What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.

Why isn't SCEA trying to settle?
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE...THEY POINTED OUT OUR SECURITY FLAWS...IM SO MADDDDDDDD...WAHHHHHH
[/p]
Source


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

I was going to post this here.

Goog luck for him, but I'll not donate shit after that ridiculous rap.


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## Nujui (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> I was going to post this here.
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> Goog luck for him, but I'll not donate shit after that ridiculous rap.


Guess I got here first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I don't really know if I should donate or not.


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## Fluto (Feb 20, 2011)

i might donate ...


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

LOL pirates complain about games costing so much yet will willingly donate to him? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The hypocrisy is overwhelming.


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## gifi4 (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> LOL pirates complain about games costing so much yet will willingly donate to him?
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If I donate, it won't be for the fact I want to pirate but more for the fact of homebrew and OtherOS would be nice.


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## GameWinner (Feb 20, 2011)

So does he have a job or go to school or anything like that?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Ignore this, I see he does have a job if he has lawyers


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## chyyran (Feb 20, 2011)

I hate the SCEA for all this, but I'm not gonna donate 
1. Because I have no money
2. Geohot is an ass.


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## zachpl (Feb 20, 2011)

Thousands of dollars have already been donated.


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## Schizoanalysis (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> LOL pirates complain about games costing so much yet will willingly donate to him?
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You seem to assume that everyone who would donate must be a pirate.

Perhaps you assume too much.


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

Schizoanalysis said:
			
		

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Not once did I assume everyone who donates is a pirate. Just most are. I know some people are only in it for the homebrew.
*You* assume too much if you assume that's what I was saying...


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## thewarhammer (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Goog luck for him, but I'll not donate shit after that ridiculous rap.



...somethin' like that. I wish luck for him, but I really have my doubts he will succeed this time...


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## Arithmatics (Feb 20, 2011)

poor guy. I'd donate for the sole fact that he's a revolution leader.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Arithmatics said:
			
		

> poor guy. I'd donate for the sole fact that he's a revolution leader.


Nah, he's an attention whore.

If he released these keys anonymously, Sony wouldn't be doing this now. He's an idiot.


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## Fudge (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm on the fence. I would love for Sony to lose in court but like other people have said Geohot is a fag bag.


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

They'd probably still know it was him.


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## tbb043 (Feb 20, 2011)

ron975 said:
			
		

> I hate the SCEA for all this, but I'm not gonna donate
> 1. Because I have no money
> 2. Geohot is an ass.



That about sums it up. 

I want Sony to lose, but not because I give a s*** about Geohot.


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## Maplemage (Feb 20, 2011)

ron975 said:
			
		

> I hate the SCEA for all this, but I'm not gonna donate
> 1. Because I have no money
> 2. Geohot is an ass.


I would donate but
1. I have no money
2. ron975 is being an ass.


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## Lacius (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Nah, he's an attention whore.
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> If he released these keys anonymously, Sony wouldn't be doing this now. He's an idiot.


This is exactly what I thought.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't see why everyone hates him....so what he found something and he released it under his own name....every other hacker does the same thing....and I'm pretty sure most of us would do the same if we found it.....


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Fear Zoa said:
			
		

> I don't see why everyone hates him....so what he found something and he released it under his own name....every other hacker does the same thing....and I'm pretty sure most of us would do the same if we found it.....


Yeah, surely I would want to buy a fight with a big company just for spotlights.
If I was him I would:
-send an e-mail to Sony saying I found about this bug on the firmware and offer to help them to fix it.
-or release this anonimously, if I really didn't like Sony


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## Midna (Feb 20, 2011)

Fear Zoa said:
			
		

> I don't see why everyone hates him....so what he found something and he released it under his own name....every other hacker does the same thing....and I'm pretty sure most of us would do the same if we found it.....



I wouldn't. It's like throwing a rock with your name and address written on it into the house of a dangerous gang leader.


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## Lacius (Feb 20, 2011)

Fear Zoa said:
			
		

> I don't see why everyone hates him....so what he found something and he released it under his own name....every other hacker does the same thing....and I'm pretty sure most of us would do the same if we found it.....


I would never release it under my own name.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm sure they would have found him even if he did release it anonymously.....besides...we don't really see many anonymous releases.
And I don't think he chose to get sued by sony....he doesn't really have much of a choice but to fight back at this point...


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 20, 2011)

Wow, a lot of butthurt pricks posting "WAH! I SUPPORT GEOHOT BUT HE'S A FAG SO IM NOT SUPPORTING HIM"

You guys do know he's really doing this for ALL homebrewers and trying to get the features Sony took away from you right? Whether he's a fag or an ass or an attention whore or not (though I don't think he's either), he's doing a TON of people a favor.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 20, 2011)

ShadowSoldier said:
			
		

> Wow, a lot of butthurt pricks posting "WAH! I SUPPORT GEOHOT BUT HE'S A FAG SO IM NOT SUPPORTING HIM"
> 
> You guys do know he's really doing this for ALL homebrewers and trying to get the features Sony took away from you right? Whether he's a fag or an ass or an attention whore or not (though I don't think he's either), he's doing a TON of people a favor.


Finally...someone who I can agree with.....

Besides...does anyone realize just how screwed the homebrew scene could be if he loses?


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't think most of us are concerned with what will happen if he loses. Mainly what happens if he wins.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 20, 2011)

Evo.lve said:
			
		

> I don't think most of us are concerned with what will happen if he loses. Mainly what happens if he wins.


Homebrew will be free, people won't have to worried about getting sued for it, and more people join the scene?


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

It'll mean that we can tell multibillion dollar companies to fuck off when we play "homebrew" *COUGH*.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 20, 2011)

Evo.lve said:
			
		

> It'll mean that we can tell multibillion dollar companies to fuck off when we play "homebrew" *COUGH*.


You do know that while one inevitably leads to the other piracy and homebrew are not the same thing....as of now one is legal and one is not 
Besides geohots original firmware didn't allow backups but allowed homebrew.....they don't have to coexist 

Sony has all the right in the world to stop pirates....but geohot isn't a pirate and neither are allot of the people use custom firmware....


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

But they *don't* have the right to stop us from using CFW.

You have to understand that.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Fear Zoa said:
			
		

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But HE KNEW releasing the damn keys would lead to piracy. So, YEAH, he's the one to blame.


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

Doesn't matter. His CFW can't be used for piracy.

Sony dug their own fucking hole. Let them climb out by themselves.


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## nintendoom (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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Hahahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




anyway, your'e Right!


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## Ssx9 (Feb 20, 2011)

I do think Geohot is an ass, and that he took a lot of credit from Fail0verFl0w, but he is fighting for a cause that is very important by not just for pirates (I'm sorry, but a lot of countries sell games for really high prices, so people choose piracy over legally buying games.), but for many gamers, who have the right to do whatever they wish to do with their consoles. And also for the fact that sony can get our private info by the PSN terms we have agree to enter online.

I am not going to give him money simply for the fact that I don't have any. I'm sorry.

I find funny how some people here like to call people who read topics about PS3 hacks/homebrews by pirates, yet they own DS flashcarts.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Evo.lve said:
			
		

> Doesn't matter. His CFW can't be used for piracy.
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> Sony dug their own fucking hole. Let them climb out by themselves.


Oh god, it's so difficult to understand that THE KEYS HE RELEASED COULD BE USED BY ANYONE TO MAKE ANY CODE RUN ON PS3, MAKING THE PIRACY POSSIBLE?

It doesn't matter if his CFW didn't allowed piracy, it doesn't matter if he don't like cheaters online... what he released for EVERYBODY make ALL OF THAT SHIT POSSIBLE.

I'm not saying CFW are a bad thing or not, I like them, I use them on my PSP and they really allow many great things, I'm just saying he's a douchebag. I don't see a reason to help him, he himself said to Sony "bring it on" on his rap, remember? Now he comes and ask for donations. I don't like people like him.

EDIT: Typos, lot's of em.


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## Urza (Feb 20, 2011)

Geohot is an egotistical twat who has been nothing but a detriment to the hacking scenes he's been involved with. He needs to learn a lesson, and Sony is the one to do it.

I hope they take everything he has.


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

CFW is a good thing. But yeah, he's a douche.


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## Sephxus (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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He was the fastest to release the keys.  They would have gotten out eventually with the failoverflow tools.

Geohotz it not the only one being sued, you know.  He is being sued for enabling homebrew tools, and failoverflow is also being sued for bringing back linux.


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## xakota (Feb 20, 2011)

lol at all the haters. None of you will ever be as skilled as geohot. That guy's an inspiration to me (computer science major here). And his bravery through this whole thing inspires me too. Honestly if i was in his position i'd be shitting my fucking pants, not making rap videos.
From now until the day i die, i'm never buying another sony product again. Fuck those assholes.


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## Urza (Feb 20, 2011)

xakota said:
			
		

> lol at all the haters. None of you will ever be as skilled as geohot. That guy's an inspiration to me (computer science major here). And his bravery through this whole thing inspires me too. Honestly if i was in his position i'd be shitting my fucking pants, not making rap videos.
> From now until the day i die, i'm never buying another sony product again. Fuck those assholes.


People like you give a bad name to the hardware hacking community.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Sephxus said:
			
		

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That's exactly why he's an huge ass, he wanted to be the first. 
AFAIK, he's being sued by releasing the keys. I don't know nothing about the case with fail0verflow, but I did know they were being sued too.


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 20, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

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Says the person, who can't put his personal grudge against a person, he probably doesn't even know personally, aside for a greater cause.


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## Sephxus (Feb 20, 2011)

I know he's an asshole, but he happens to be on the side that fights for our rights as consumers and non-corporate individuals, and everyone that is not a corporation should support him.  

If he ever loses, it will be for lack of funds.  Since corporations have tremendous amounts of money, they can intimidate individuals to do whatever they want.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't get people anymore...people bitch that they want something to be hacked....then it gets hacked and then everyone bitches that it got hacked and calls the guy who did it an asshole...

Honestly people what the hell do you really want?


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## Urza (Feb 20, 2011)

M[u said:
			
		

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This is not a 'personal grudge' in any sense of the term.

Geohot's huge visibility makes him a representative of the hardware hacking community to the more general public. His actions reflect upon us, and he has shirked this responsibility in lieu of "fame" and stroking his own ego. His blatant disregard for any of the parties that his actions affect shows us as anti-corporate anarchists. People like xakota are the type of sheep who further validate that generalization.


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## FireGrey (Feb 20, 2011)

Shit Sony is playing Hardball, but he is playing harder


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## qwety (Feb 20, 2011)

You guys see a hero, I see an obnoxious [censored]. What am I missing here.


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## Evo.lve (Feb 20, 2011)

Sony is playing hardball, and failing.

Geohot is playing softball, but he's succeeding.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Fear Zoa said:
			
		

> I don't get people anymore...people bitch that they want something to be hacked....then it gets hacked and then everyone bitches that it got hacked and calls the guy who did it an asshole...
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> Honestly people what the hell do you really want?


I never said I wanted the PS3 to be hacked. I don't a practical use for it that I don't already have on my PC (and I can even connect it to a TV, if you're thinking of using this as argument). If I had a PS3, I would be buying only original games. It's not that hard.

People from fail0verflow said that he was being an ass too, from what I've read.


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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So you won't want homebrew?


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## Joe88 (Feb 20, 2011)

xakota said:
			
		

> lol at all the haters. None of you will ever be as skilled as geohot. That guy's an inspiration to me (computer science major here). And his bravery through this whole thing inspires me too. Honestly if i was in his position i'd be shitting my fucking pants, not making rap videos.
> From now until the day i die, i'm never buying another sony product again. Fuck those assholes.


I'm a computer scientist major too and he is an absolute egotistical idiot to me


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

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I wouldn't buy a PS3 for homebrew, but for the games.
I already have the best homebrews on my PC (the emulators).

And honestly, I prefer homebrews on portables.


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## DarkWay (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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1. Did Geohot's CFW allow you to play backups? No, it did not.
2. Why did he release the Keys? Personally and from alot of what I have read, he released the keys so that the homebrew can advance on said sony products where homebrew was basically non-exsistant on such a promising platform.
3. Did piracy come around thanks to the keys being released? Yes, but that was inevitable but hey if you complain so much about piracy go work for sony or someone like that, just because others do it doesn't mean you have to.
4. The keys were eventually found by somebody, what does that tell you? well no matter how good security is somebody will ALWAYS crack iteventually given enough time, this is something that is completely unavoidable.
5. What is the best way to prevent things like this from happening? Allow homebrew on your console.
6. Why would allowing homebrew on your console help prevent situations like this? Alot of people want to test the ability of a console to the max (oh hey wouldn't it be cool if "x" console could do "this", I wonder if "x" console could run this, that would be awesome.) This would leave most hackers with not alot of hacking to do, just alot of homebrew developing, however this won't be a permnent fix because someone will eventually get bored and hack the console for piracy purposes.

In short, you are making yourself look like an asshole saying that all of this was Geohots fault when it clearly isn't. At the moment he's fighting for an actual just cause and that's our right to do as we please with our own property (within legal reasons) which this is. Look at it this way, you just bougth an expensive new toy with loads of cool features, that product is then yours to keep right? What sony is basically doing is saying, "it's yours but we forbid you to do this, this, this or this! If you do any of this with your property we'll sue you to set an example that we're in control of the consumer." 

TLR Consumers have rights and Sony is trying to take those rights away by abusing their ToS and trying to "make up" laws to suit they're money grabbing profit making needs  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




I fully support Geohot in this case, whether I like him or not (who the fuck knows? I've never met the guy) however donations from me are a big no no, I'm a student I don't have monies.


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## Sephxus (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

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You're really missing the point. What if your computer manufacturer decided to not allow people run emulators on their systems?  A ps3 is just like a pc.  This is about consumer rights.  People should visualize the global perspective, instead of focusing on geohotz' personality. Why would anyone take the side of a corporation that imposes its own rules for its own benefits regardless of what the law says, even if it involves violating existing consumer rights?


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

DarkWay said:
			
		

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LOL, nice points, specially the bold ones...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*3. Did piracy come around thanks to the keys being released? Yes* - I'll not argue that, there's no positive point on this, you can argue whatever you want, this was a bad consequence of the release of the keys.
*4. The keys were eventually found by somebody, what does that tell you? well no matter how good security is somebody will ALWAYS crack iteventually given enough time, this is something that is completely unavoidable.* - Who the hell are even trying to proove this wrong, this is about right.
_5. What is the best way to prevent things like this from happening? Allow homebrew on your console._ - No, it's not. Eventually, there would be people wanting to break the security for piracy, since it's profitable (just like you said on your point #6). And hacking a console is not wrong, the console is yours, you can do whatever you want if it. What's on game here is the release of the method. This is a gray area. 

It's his fault releasing the keys first, he knew the consequences, he's not stupid. He bought a fight, them he's the one who'll have to fight it. Being childish is not good for him at all.

Let me just make myself clear: I don't think modifying your own console is wrong. But I think what he did IS. End of story.

@Sephxus
I'll not argue with that, it's up the the justice and the law to say if this will be right or not. I'm no lawyer.


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## jonesman99 (Feb 20, 2011)

Sephxus said:
			
		

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If it was a computer manufacturer, they wouldn't have any say so in this case. That would be up to the makers of the OS installed on the computers, like Microsoft, Mac(Apple), or Linux. 

Sony has begun to put its foot in its mouth, while at the same time, running around trying to clean up the mess that they inevitably made. Geohot did sort of go about the whole situation wrong. But what would you guys have done if you were in his shoes?


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## Alex221 (Feb 20, 2011)

xakota said:
			
		

> lol at all the haters. None of you will ever be as skilled as geohot. That guy's an inspiration to me (computer science major here). And his bravery through this whole thing inspires me too. Honestly if i was in his position i'd be shitting my fucking pants, not making rap videos.
> From now until the day i die, i'm never buying another sony product again. Fuck those assholes.


i agree with you all the way. btw im going into science also.


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## DarkWay (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros - 

You skipped point 6 and also skipped the rest of my comment on point 2, so good luck with your explanation.

Why should he keep the keys to himself? How will that help the homebrew community progress?
Safely put, it wouldn't help at all. Alot of people like and enjoy homebrew, but not everyone is capable of making it let alone finding the keys for themselves.

The only thing you seem to be listening to is what you want to hear, you skip out important parts and change things to how you want them, prime example of what Sony is doing.


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## Sephxus (Feb 20, 2011)

@jonesman99
I can see your perspective, but the os simply happens to be there before launching applications.
If level 2 syscalls are done through linux installed on ps3, Sony would still get mad.  
Not to mention the possibilities for a custom os (unlikely), Sony will still sue.


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## Maz7006 (Feb 20, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY *OWN* PS3. Help me own them in court



Yeah, RIGHT. 

No; maybe if it were fail0verfl0w i would have donated but not this guy - go make a rap and sell it on itunes or something .


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

Maz7006 said:
			
		

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No one would buy it, they'd just pirate it.


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## dib (Feb 20, 2011)

Somehow I don't think adding more lawyers is the key to victory--if such a thing were even possible.  If it were that simple, Sony could and would have three hundred.

I wish the situation weren't so FUBAR for him, but it should be obvious by now that there isn't a law or court in this country that isn't beholden to the bottom lines of a few IP holders.  They dictate our foreign policy, dictate our copyright and technology laws, and have all of the US law enforcement agencies at their disposal.  At the end of the day, Geohot is another scruffy guy who didn't know how to be an obedient little consumer whore and they will inevitably ruin him for this.


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## rdurbin (Feb 20, 2011)

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well in a way its the same cause.  If Sony wins, both Geohot and fail0verflow loses and vice versa.  one could say if they lose the case we all lose.  Than other companies may start like Microsoft and Nintendo may start doing the same thing.  Either outcome will set a legal precedent.


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## zeromac (Feb 20, 2011)

Attention Whore much?


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

zeromac said:
			
		

> Attention Whore much?


It's egohotz, what more did you expect? For him to actually pay his own legal fees?


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## FireGrey (Feb 20, 2011)

I really do not care if it is hacked or not.
As long as their are no people hacking trophies and online games.
So the thing that will make everyone happy is if you cannot hack online but you can hack online.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 20, 2011)

3 pages of nothing but bitching as soon as i seen this thread i knew how it would end up


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

Bladexdsl said:
			
		

> 3 pages of nothing but bitching as soon as i seen this thread i knew how it would end up


It ends up the same as *ANY* Sony thread on a Nintendo forum...


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## GundamXXX (Feb 20, 2011)

if i had money  i might consider it .... but i dont so yea


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## Oveneise (Feb 20, 2011)

If anything, Mr. Hotz needs to make sure his lawyers use the Chewbacca defense.


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## GundamXXX (Feb 20, 2011)

Oveneise said:
			
		

> If anything, Mr. Hotz needs to make sure his lawyers use the Chewbacca defense.


Waitwut?


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## buffdog (Feb 20, 2011)

legall aid shit can he get that NO HA HA


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## dib (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> zeromac said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let's see you go up against one of the major companies like Sony, BMG, Apple, etc. and see how well you come out.  I'm assuming you have tens of thousands of dollars just sitting around and can part with so easily.

It's not even a matter strictly concerning legal fees.  We're talking about a country where you can be fined thousands of dollars for possessing an mp3 file.  After they rule against him, he will be financially ruined for the remainder of his mortal existence without hope of ever climbing out of the red.  Nobody deserves the sort of punitive damages awarded in US copyright cases.


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

dib said:
			
		

> antwill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually it's illegally having an mp3. He should have thought about being financially ruined before he hacked and distributed the key then shouldn't he? What it comes down to is he did something he shouldn't have and is now complaining that he is being punished for it like he should be. You can continue to naively think he's some sort of a hero or whatever it is you cling to.


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## Law (Feb 20, 2011)

I want to somehow donate him anti-money that sucks normal money out of his account.


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## DukeDizko (Feb 20, 2011)

Whoah!!! That would be a-w-e-s-o-m-e, Law!


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## emigre (Feb 20, 2011)

Urza said:
			
		

> Geohot is an egotistical twat who has been nothing but a detriment to the hacking scenes he's been involved with. He needs to learn a lesson, and Sony is the one to do it.
> 
> I hope they take everything he has.



This. I want homebrew on my PS3, but you've got to be so naive in thinking releasing the keys wouldn't lead to piracy.


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## megawalk (Feb 20, 2011)

hmmm i want to win the lottery and donate 5 million euro's
(yeah i am desperate)


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## Law (Feb 20, 2011)

megawalk said:
			
		

> hmmm i want to win the lottery and donate 5 million euro's
> (yeah i am desperate)



I hope you do, because a transaction that large would look suspicious and set off some red flags.


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## blackdragonbaham (Feb 20, 2011)

he shall go down, 
hacking his property is one thing, but he should have known that delivering the key to the masses wouln't be without consequences. he could've done it at least anonymously. he's just an egoist who pretends to do the right thing for the interests of the community.


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

blackdragonbahamut said:
			
		

> he shall go down,
> hacking his property is one thing, but he should have known that delivering the key to the masses wouln't be without consequences. he could've done it at least anonymously. he's just an egoist who pretends to do the right thing for the interests of the community.


I don't know if he pretends to. But it's either that or he honestly believes it, which is pretty funny if true. It's probably better to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's pretending though.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> LOL pirates complain about games costing so much yet will willingly donate to him?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And in this case Sony has not only removed the ability to install another OS, but this case involves re-adding the ability to do so.



Posting this post right now because of the quote limit...


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> It's egohotz, what more did you expect? For him to actually pay his own legal fees?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He came out on top in all the other cases.  The PS3 scene is not his first scene.  Anybody remember "blackra1n"?  That's geohot's work, and the librarian of congress ruled that jailbreaking phones was not illegal.  *If there weren't people pushing for it in that case the change would not have been made, and any of you with a jailbroken phone could face fines in the tens of thousands of dollars via the DMCA, like Sony's trying to do to geohot now.*


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## dib (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm failing to see why refusing to abide a corrupt legal system and its domination by corporations translates into worshipping this particular defendant.  How is any personality trait relevant to being railroaded by said system?  I do not see how being obnoxious warrants any of this.


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## megawalk (Feb 20, 2011)

Law said:
			
		

> megawalk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hence why paypal rocks
and if that doesn't work 1000 letters of 5.000 euro's


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> antwill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what? There's no need for homebrew, or to hack the console, none at all besides people feeling entitled.

Oh you shouldn't have double posted, you should have edited your post like you tell others.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




But in regards to your other point. How could you not remember I know that? I know the fees are incredibly high and was making a joke, hence the emoticon. Remember? I'm the one that made that joke that seemed to get to you about wishing he were homeless after all this.


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## boktor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

People should actually be able to put a nothankyou.jpg on his blog. I mean, he doesn't deserve it. Nuff said. (He is _one of the_ people who brought hacks and cheats to PS3, so no support from this front here, I think (opinon) he should be accused guilty, just to show him not to hack everything)


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## GH0ST (Feb 20, 2011)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> Raketenfahrrad said...
> 
> *0 $ from me* because:
> 
> ...



Just another funny comment on his blog. Sorry.


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## Law (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Urza said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm fairly certain Urza has already "been there, done that".


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## Wintrale (Feb 20, 2011)

I would've probably donated to the guy if he didn't parade around like some sort of Robin Hood. This whole "I'm completely anti-piracy" thing is really annoying, especially since it's mostly his work that has allowed for all the rampant hacking and piracy that's occured recently. If he was so against piracy, he wouldn't have made sure as many people were able to play around with the hack as possible. At the very least, he would've used his "super epic hacking skillz" to make piracy really hard to achieve (something like the iPlayer DS flashcart, which can't load commercial ROMs).

I actually have a question I'd love for him to answer - say Sony actually turns around and says "Okay, from now on all our consoles will be able to run unsigned code but we're still locking out commercial backups - so go wild with your homebrew and emulators", how long will it be 'til someone hacks them to play commercial backups and what would Geohot himself (or any anti-piracy hacker for that matter) do to stop them?


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> So what? There's no need for homebrew, or to hack the console, none at all besides people feeling entitled.Then what the hell are you doing on this forum?  This forum caters to homebrew, console hacking, and allows talk of piracy.  If you don't care about any of these (and seem adamantly against some), _what are you doing here_?  There's many other larger forums that have general gaming discussion.  Are you just lying about your views in order to have an argument or something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How could geohot do anything in that case?  It's between Sony and other people.  It's like you asking me what I can do to stop your sister from dating some guy.  I'm not involved in that situation at all.  Yes geohot could release mods that didn't allow game backups, but then people would just make and use ones that did, and geohot has no way to force other people to use his (and while he can disable the backup playing on the other tools, people could just use the versions he didn't modify).  He's not having any sort of control in that situation.


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> antwill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, my mistake I never knew there was a quote limit, but it did seem like you've quoted longer than that before. Also there's a thing called a community, you know. And before when I joined this forum (read as: way before you did.) I used to use it to tell me when new games were being released so I knew what to buy when. Back in '06, there was barely any good release sites for Australians anyway, and it was handy going off the recently dumped list to know what to import or judge when AUS would get them. I just figured I'd stick around after that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And I can joke about whatever I feel like, and geohot being homeless is funny, how will he afford things to hack then. xD


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

You can only post 5 quotes per post, or the system doesn't let you.  If posts are automerged then more can be in a single post, and it seems I can ignore the quote limit when editing my post in the news forums (thanks to somebody in the shoutbox for pointing it out).


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## [M]artin (Feb 20, 2011)

HA! This cocky asshole again? I'd rather donate to Sony.


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## Slyakin (Feb 20, 2011)

So... Now this asshole is asking us for our help? For, the billionth time? We gave him fame for hacking the iPhone. He stole the fame for hacking the PS3.

Naah. I'd rather see him jailed.


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

[M said:
			
		

> artin]
> HA! This cocky asshole again? I'd rather donate to Sony.


But then how will Geohot afford Lionel Hutz to defend him!?


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## [M]artin (Feb 20, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> [M said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL

But guys, let's be serious here. Using your wads of cash to make a paper-mâché dildo and shoving it up your ass is a better use of your money than giving it to Georappa the Rappa over here.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't think the "anti-GeoHot" people here quite understand the concept of legal precedent...

At this point it doesn't matter what you think about the dude.  I personally think he's a tool, especially after his little battle rap...

What this case boils down to is consumer rights.  If Sony wins this case it'll set a precedent for all other companies to jump on.  Who knows what that could turn into...  Individuals getting sued for owning flash carts?  Individuals getting sued for installing CFW of any sort on their property?  Apple could use the legal precendent set by this case to start suing individuals for jailbreaking their ipods/iphone/ipads.  Might as well shut this site down if Sony wins.


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## antwill (Feb 20, 2011)

Old8oy said:
			
		

> I don't think the "anti-GeoHot" people here quite understand the concept of legal precedent...
> 
> At this point it doesn't matter what you think about the dude.  I personally think he's a tool, especially after his little battle rap...
> 
> What this case boils down to is consumer rights.  If Sony wins this case it'll set a precedent for all other companies to jump on.  Who knows what that could turn into...  Individuals getting sued for owning flash carts?  Individuals getting sued for installing CFW of any sort on their property?  Apple could use the legal precendent set by this case to start suing individuals for jailbreaking their ipods/iphone/ipads.  Might as well shut this site down if Sony wins.


Oh I quite understand, and really I don't think you understand that you don't have a right to be installing CFW or homebrew in the first place. It all boils down to you feeling *entitled* to something that shouldn't be. Or do you think every console owner feels the way you do? Because you're wrong if you do.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

you do have the right to install CFW on your console and should feel entitled to it.  you paid at least 300 damn dollars for the thing.  you paid sales tax to the state you live in (if you're in the US, don't know how that works for you).  I don't even own a modded system of any kind and I won't ever again.  however, if i've worked my ass off to earn the money to buy myself something, i expect to be able to use it as i please.

pre-emptive retort...
"you pay for a gun, does that give you the right to shoot people"
No.  It doesn't.
No one is shooting Sony by playing super mario world on their PS3.  I do understand that people are taking money out of their pockets though via piracy.  if this case were an act against piracy I'd have no problem standing behind Sony on it.  However, their case reaches much further than just piracy...

If you can't grasp that then enjoy having your next PC limit you to software "approved" by MS/Apple.


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## Wintrale (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> That's not really possible... the hardware of the iplayer isn't open to anybody, people can't just go make new stuff on a whim.  In comparison the custom firmwares and tools and such are open source, and there's tons of documentation out there on them.  It's easy for a hacker to find out just what and where to poke to disable any protections.
> 
> And this should stop him from at least trying? Surely if he's so adamantly against piracy, he'd at least try to prevent people using his tools to promote it?
> 
> QUOTEHow could geohot do anything in that case?  It's between Sony and other people.  It's like you asking me what I can do to stop your sister from dating some guy.  I'm not involved in that situation at all.  Yes geohot could release mods that didn't allow game backups, but then people would just make and use ones that did, and geohot has no way to force other people to use his (and while he can disable the backup playing on the other tools, people could just use the versions he didn't modify).  He's not having any sort of control in that situation.



Firstly, your analogy is terrible. A better example would be... You had introduced my sister to some abuser and turned your back on them, full well knowing that he'd do horrible things to my sister. In that case, yes, I'd expect you to stop my sister dating that guy. In fact, I'd do as Sony did, and go after you and the guy you introduced my sister to. By the time I'd be finished, both of you would be in hospital with your balls ripped off and shoved down your throat.

But in the end, is it okay to plead ignorance as you are? He makes tools for people to hack the PS3, proclaims he's very much against piracy, then spreads it around on the internet? Even if he himself isn't responsible for piracy on the PS3, he aided and abetted those that are. He's an accessory to the crime, all because he did absolutely nothing to stop people using his tools for piracy. At least if he had tried to stop them, however futile you think it is, we could say he gave it a go.

That guy is to blame for all of Sony's problems right now, even if he hasn't directly done most of it himself. Whether you like it or not, Sony owns every PS3 out there and we only pay for a license to use them. It's been like that for decades, so all Geohot did was give everyone on the internet keys to Sony's "house".


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> A better example would be... You had introduced my sister to some abuserNo, YOUR example was between Sony and other people.  You said if Sony allowed people to.
> 
> Sony allowing people to.
> 
> ...


Again you're not reading!  I just explained that he can't.  *He is not a controlling entity here.*  The tools released are NOT just his.  Team fail0verflow in fact released a majority of the tools, and they are also under the suit (which you haven't read).


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> That guy is to blame for all of Sony's problems right now, even if he hasn't directly done most of it himself. Whether you like it or not, Sony owns every PS3 out there and we only pay for a license to use them. It's been like that for decades, so all Geohot did was give everyone on the internet keys to Sony's "house".



we do not pay for a license to use them...we pay for and own the hardware.

they have every right to ban people from their networks for breaking the user agreement required to access said networks.  they do not have a right to control how you use the hardware they sold you.  if that were the case then where does it stop?  does the grocery store own every apple you purchase from them and only sell you a license to eat it?


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## Eckin (Feb 20, 2011)

Probably repeating some other people (not in the mood to read the whole thread):

GeoHot is a stupid attention whore. He loves the spotlight, and that was his biggest mistake. Everyone knows Sony is trigger-happy about lawsuits, but he didn't gave a crap about it and that's what he got.

But

what Sony is doing is retarded and they should never win this case. It's just to cause fear, and would mean that your console isn't actually yours, it's forever theirs. It's absurd.

I really hope he wins, even if it goes like Bleem!'s case. It'll be a great victory for the homebrew community, he knows it, and everyone here should know it too.


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2011)

Old8oy said:
			
		

> Wintrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Walk out store eating apple. "um sir, you are eating that wrong, if you continue to eat it that way I would have to sue you"


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

> everyone here should know it too.


Yeah, but the thread's full of people that don't want to look at the big picture.


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Eckin said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe when it get to the point Sony suing because you painted you console red, they get the point. :/


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

I said good luck to him.

If Sony wins, how it'll affects a guy who just uses original games on the PS3? Even if this mean the end of CFW and Jailbreaks, if you go only with originals and no homebrew... how this will affect you?


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Eckin said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



geo is a fairly polarizing figure.  seems some people can't see past that to the bigger picture.  it's not even about him.  it's about the consumer in general and where the line is drawn as far as what is your property and what isn't.


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## basf11214 (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> I said good luck to him.
> 
> If Sony wins, how it'll affects a guy who just uses original games on the PS3? Even if this mean the end of CFW and Jailbreaks, if you go only with originals and no homebrew... how this will affect you?



If Sony wins, it will set a dangerous precedent.  From there, it's only a matter of time before the rights established under the first-sale doctrine is eroded further.  As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.

Edit:  For the record, I don't own a PS3.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

basf11214 said:
			
		

> As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.


And the major companies are just fine with people making judgments based on attitude and not what actually matters.

I mean it's the entire facade in politics. XD


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

basf11214 said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only precedent I see in this case is about the release of the private keys. On the past, it happened with NES, if I'm not mistaken. Had him made a CFW without releasing the keys and I would not be bothered.
Like it was with PSP/DS/etc.


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## ProtoKun7 (Feb 20, 2011)

Personally, I'm in favour of Geohot, mostly because of both the precedent that could be set, and to a degree, some of Sony's questionable tactics (I'm not saying by that that all of them have been, however) and the stifling of homebrew on the system. Geohot's CFW didn't allow backups but allowed homebrew, and Sony still want none of it.



			
				FireGrey said:
			
		

> I really do not care if it is hacked or not.
> As long as their are no people hacking trophies and online games.
> So the thing that will make everyone happy is *if you cannot hack online but you can hack online*.
> You mean *off*line?
> ...


You're welcome.


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## Wintrale (Feb 20, 2011)

basf11214 said:
			
		

> If Sony wins, it will set a dangerous precedent.  From there, it's only a matter of time before the rights established under the first-sale doctrine is eroded further.  As a law school student, I'm troubled by the lack of foresight and a general pettiness on display here.



It's perfectly fine. Get someone like Rydian to defend Geohot, a devout believer that'll defend the guy on forums with more zest than Phoenix Wright could ever muster, that'll do the job. The guy's apparently done nothing wrong, after all, so what's he got to fear?


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## Magmorph (Feb 20, 2011)

DJ91990 said:
			
		

> The only precedent I see in this case is about the release of the private keys. On the past, it happened with NES, if I'm not mistaken. Had him made a CFW without releasing the keys and I would not be bothered.
> Like it was with PSP/DS/etc.


No one ever found the keys to the PSP or the DS so there was nothing to be released.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> basf11214 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



again...
it's not about defending Geohot...
it's about defending your rights as a consumer to make use of your property in a way you see fit...
Rydian is not defending Geohot.  He has not once come to Geohot's defense claiming his innocence.  He is pointing out that Geohot is the focus of Sony's wrath more as an example than as an indictment of his actions.  Anyone who is a "devout believer" in Geohot is a douchebag.

IT IS NOT ABOUT GEOHOT


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## Phoenix Goddess (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> It's perfectly fine. Get someone like Rydian to defend Geohot, a devout believer that'll defend the guy on forums with more zest than Phoenix Wright could ever muster, that'll do the job. The guy's apparently done nothing wrong, after all, so what's he got to fear?



Give it a rest already.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

I think geohot is uppity and a glory-seeker.  However, this case is not about geohot's attitude.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm not sure what to think about Mr. Hotz. Perhaps he is in need of a personality transplant. Whatever kind of ego he has, however, should not serve as a strawman for Sony apologists or in their favor. Currently his case serves as the only expression that the homebrew community currently has in the legal system against corporate and digital hegemony over a product. It would be illogical and reactionary not to support his struggle; it is directly bound up with the defense of the homebrew/hacking community as a whole. 

The most rudimentary and cursory overview of Sony's actions so far demonstrates that they do not deserve to be defended. They're not simply trying to "protect" the PS3 from digital piracy, they're trying to establish a rigid monopoly over its use, and they were fully willing to steamroll over customer privacy by pursuing PATRIOT act-like measures to do it. This case may serve as a legal linchpin to the very progress of the homebrew/hacking community, and Mr. Hotz deserves whatever support he can get. Those of you who are calling for Mr. Hotz's expropriation and destruction should be ashamed. It would be constructive for you to be aware of the puppet strings that are hanging from your wrists when you try to justify your obtuse wailing in speaking of Mr. Hotz's "ego".

Again, Sony does not deserve to be defended.

/rant


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## Wintrale (Feb 20, 2011)

Old8oy said:
			
		

> again...
> it's not about defending Geohot...
> it's about defending your rights as a consumer to make use of your property in a way you see fit...
> Rydian is not defending Geohot.  He has not once come to Geohot's defense claiming his innocence.  He is pointing out that Geohot is the focus of Sony's wrath more as an example than as an indictment of his actions.  Anyone who is a "devout believer" in Geohot is a douchebag.
> ...



Okay. Clearly compromises aren't acceptable and Sony have to lose out on their rights to ensure we don't misuse the product they sell us. Since that's what it really boils down to, whether we should be able to do what we like with our stuff or if companies should be able to stop us doing certain things with them. We can't just sit there and use our PS3s to play PS3 games and watch movies, after all, that's preposterous. But on the other hand, Sony can't just let us run "homebrew" (and I use that term lightly since the only devices with a decent homebrew community is actually the 360, iPhone and PC and they call themselves indie developers) on the PS3 and PSP and even took away our ability to use Linux on our PS3s because we weren't using it the way they wanted us to.

Seems to me like both sides are being complete jerks. But I s'pose that's neither here nor there, right?


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> Seems to me like both sides are being complete jerks.


Until you consider that the consumers paid $300 for a product that Sony advertised as being able to run homemade programs and Linux...

*I'm willing to bet that if Dell or Apple tried this shit it wouldn't fly with any of you.*


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## Magmorph (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> I think geohot is uppity and a glory-seeker.  However, this case is not about geohot's attitude.


I don't understand why his attitude matters so much to people. He released the keys and the CFW he made for free with no expectation of profit knowing it would be a risk to himself. If what he wants in return is attention why does it bother people that he gets it? Is it going to make your life that much worse if some hacker you have never met is seeking attention for the work he did for free?


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## Warrior522 (Feb 20, 2011)

Dear lord, I never knew there were so many MORONS here. If Geo loses, it bodes HORRIBLY for us, so whether you think he's an asshat or not, show him some goddamn support!!!


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Removing Other OS was stupid, but it started being used for the first hacks on the PS3. In the end, it changed nothing removing it.

@Magmorph
I don't like people like him, who wants spotlight and buy fights without wanting to suffer consequences.


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## KingVamp (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Removing Other OS was stupid, but it started being used for the first hacks on the PS3. In the end, it changed nothing removing it.
> 
> @Magmorph
> I don't like people like him, who wants spotlight and buy fights without wanting to suffer consequences.


I guess your life it much worse because of that?


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> If you go only with originals and no homebrew... how this will affect you?
> From what I've heard legal customers are already affected by Sony's "You can't do with your PS3 what you want" policy. The use of any third party hardware with your PS3 is not allowed anymore.
> 
> 
> ...


First is was removed because Sony didn't want to waste their resources to maintain it anymore.
Second you can't run official games in OtherOS. They only work in GameOS. The hack was meant to unlock the full power of the PS3 in OtherOS to make homebrew that is actually usefull.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Removing Other OS was stupid, but it started being used for the first hacks on the PS3. In the end, it changed nothing removing it.
> 
> @Magmorph
> I don't like people like him, who wants spotlight and buy fights without wanting to suffer consequences.


Your claim is ridiculous. Removing OtherOS support certainly changed and removed an ability of the PS3 end-users to do with the machine as they saw fit. I would hardly say it "changed nothing". Your dislike of Mr. Hotz is shortsighted and childish; it completely limits the argument grounds to the individual and obscures the bigger, _political_, picture of this incident. By your logic, we must judge all figures in history strictly by their personality and not by the circumstances that are largely out of their control.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Removing Other OS was stupid, but it started being used for the first hacks on the PS3. In the end, it changed nothing removing it.
> 
> @Magmorph
> I don't like people like him, who wants spotlight and buy fights without wanting to suffer consequences.



and you, friend, are pretty dense if you hold your opinion of one man more important than the shitstorm he's currently trying to shield you from.

this lawsuit isn't even about the ps3 anymore.  it doesn't matter that you use your ps3 in a "legitimate" way.  this will not only affect every gaming system you own (and you're full of shit if you try to claim you've never modded/hacked a system or bypassed any sort of protection in any way) but it could also potentially affect your phones, computers, televisions, your $20 KMart brand mp3 player...

edit...
I'm really starting to think these guys are just trolling.  No one could possibly that short-sighted...


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Old8oy said:
			
		

> I'm really starting to think these guys are just trolling.  No one could possibly that short-sighted...


You haven't been active in gbatemp for a while. :\  These same arguments come up in every damn thread about this case.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Old8oy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I been keeping up  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Just haven't been chiming in
It boggles my mind...it really does.
Like I said before, I don't even have a modded system of any sort anymore.  I dislike the pretentious a-hole known as Geohot.  At the same time, I can recognize that this has gone far beyond him.  He's just the catalyst.  This was all going to go down sooner or later.


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## Wintrale (Feb 20, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Wintrale said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes consumers spend $300 on a PS3 and Sony spends tens, if not hundreds, of millions developing and marketing and getting publishers and developers interested in the console. Sony puts shitloads into the PS3 and all they get in return is a bunch of childish whiners complaining that they want more. Hell, if you want a PS3 that can run almost anything, why don't you buy a damn Dev Kit? They're only $400 now and you wouldn't even need to hack them to get them running whatever emulators or homebrew you wanted.

It ran Linux once, remember? But what happened there? People were hacking it to access additional resources, so Sony removed it. It's just proof that certain people will never be happy, regardless of whatever freedom they are given. So Sony is just expected to bend over backwards and create an open source console that can run any code anyone wants on it, with full access to all the resources of the console, regardless of the damage it would inevitably cause?


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> Rydian said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While it's true that Sony has expended a lot of capital on the PS3, they are in a much better position to afford it. This is not necessarily true of the end-user. Please don't place them on the same financial plane.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale... My point was it was _a promise made for the exchange of money_.  Your assessment of the situation didn't take that into account.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*STOP!!* I didn't want to say it changed nothing on a bad way, but that it didn't change anything because the hackers were still able to find a way to hack the console.


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> why don't you buy a damn Dev Kit? They're only $400 now and you wouldn't even need to hack them to get them running whatever emulators or homebrew you wanted.
> I don't think DevKits are available for everyone.
> QUOTEPeople were hacking it to access additional resources, so Sony removed it.


As I said before OtherOS was removed, because Sony didn't want to "waste" their resources on maintaining it anymore.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I apologize for misinterpreting your last comment. You should have been more clear because saying it "changed nothing" gave off the wrong impression. The rest of my argument regarding your opinion of Hotz still stands.


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## Stevetry (Feb 20, 2011)

i donate just to see sony get ownd


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> So Sony is just expected to bend over backwards and create an open source console that can run any code anyone wants on it, with full access to all the resources of the console, regardless of the damage it would inevitably cause?



No. They are not.  They are merely expected to not get butthurt when someone gives the end user the ability to produce their own content.

Look at the state of Nintendo's current-gen consoles...  They've been broken wide open.  Easily in comparison.  Team Twiizers released the Homebrew Channel.  This ultimately led to "unintended" piracy.  Nintendo's are surely as capable as Sony's.  So why did Nintendo not start suing people left and right?  Because they're not idiots.  They know the effect that this type of attention can have not only on hardware sales, but on their stock shares.  People tend to lose confidence in their investments when companies act irrationally.

If memory serves, the PS3 was inches from being considered a failure upon launch.  Their response was to remove features (most important to me was backward compatibility) and cut the price tag.  This was a fairly acceptable compromise but hasn't helped them as far as black ink is concerned.

So not only did they lose an exorbitant amount of money in the production and marketing of this system, they are also alienating those who have purchased it.  Their response:  make an example of someone and place the blame for their failures on them.


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## Maedhros (Feb 20, 2011)

Old8oy said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously, I don't care shit if Sony or Geohot will win this. If in the future this case means that I can't modify my consoles again, so be it (IMO).

I was only comenting on this thread about Geohot actions and what they represented (until now, only bad things like Piracy and cheaters online on PSN). I'm still waiting to see what will be the usefull homebrews coming from this.

I never saw any third party talking bad or losing their faith on Sony after all this recent ruckus.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 20, 2011)

So GeoHot makes a rap saying "COME AT ME SONY!" and then turns to us and says "PLEASE HELP ME!"

I'm satisfied with every penny I have not going to him. Daddy needs to get Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

EDIT: Typo.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 20, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> So GeoHot makes a rap saying "COME AT ME SONY!" and then turns to us and says "PLEASE HELP ME!"
> 
> I'm satisfied with every penny I have not going to him. Daddy needs to get Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
> 
> EDIT: Typo.


Can you do anything other than making a crude analysis? There's no contradiction between displaying defiance of a corporate entity and then asking for help to support his defiance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is not possible for the average citizen to stand on his own against the ensuing legal fees of something like this.


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## Wintrale (Feb 20, 2011)

M[u said:
			
		

> ddy]I don't think DevKits are available for everyone.
> 
> While not just anyone can pick one up, the process for doing so is usually quite quick and painless. In fact, Sony even made something called the PhyreEngine (a free cross platform engine for PS3 and PC which supports both OpenGL and DirectX and includes the PS3 LibGCM library) to help make development easier for those without extensive coding knowledge.
> 
> ...



Yes, a promise was made for an exchange of cash. But it was a promise from both us and them. When we bought the PS3, we accepted the EULA and promised to abide by the guidelines set forward.

I'm starting to think the PS4 needs to be a device similar to the OnLive. If everything is streamed to us from Sony's servers, there'll be hardly anything for folks to hack. It screws over legitimate owners, but every war has its casualties. I don't want Sony to just bend over backwards and let hackers get away with anything they want, 'cause what kind of precendent will *that* set? That the companies who create the devices have no rights or say regarding use of the devices themselves? That these companies will have to make all their devices completely security-free and open source, so that hackers can poke around with any functions they like?

The videogame industry already went through one major crash, I don't intend to see another.


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> That isn't what I heard and it's a pretty weak excuse considering Sony didn't spend any resources on maintaining it. The only people that actually maintained it was the guys behind YellowDog. Sony rarely did more than a little bugfixing every so often, so saying they got rid of it to save resources is pretty much nonsense.


Then why is team fail0verflow still struggling with re-enabling it?


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Wintrale said:
			
		

> When we bought the PS3, we accepted the EULA and promised to abide by the guidelines set forward.


An EULA has never been enforced in a court of law as far as I know.  It's usually just used to say "If you do something we don't like we don't have to give you support anymore".


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## Deleted User (Feb 20, 2011)

Consumer Rights, eh? So Sony's basic argument is that by circumventing the security measures put on the PS3 and installing Custom Firmware people give up their rights? That's nifty.  I'm not so sure about this PayPal account donation thing; Geohot won't be getting a penny out of me; he was fully aware what would happen if he publicly released the keys.  I support his cause, but I think that he went about it in an extremely moronic way; the whole scene would look better if he hadn't gotten a huge boner.  In a way though, Geohot is becoming the fall-guy, regardless he'll be taking the fall whether or not the suit is successful or not.  He probably just wanted in the history books. 

So yeah, what are the chances that The Legal Defense Fund is actually setup correctly on PayPal? Doesn't Paypal have a history of freezing accounts rather arbitrarily? I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but at this point it wouldn't surprise me.  The United States (and in this legal perspective) highly favors corporations over individuals.  It wouldn't surprise me if the defense fund account gets frozen in the next few days... lest Sony, a huge corporate conglomerate, just boycott paypal entirely, I mean, some subsidiaries of Sony (or those affiliated with Sony) must use the service. 

As far as OtherOS goes, the whole situations was totally predictable.  Initially from the onset Sony's thoughts may have something like, "We'll give them OtherOS and see how that goes", but as soon as users started taking things apart and accessing things that Sony didn't approve of, well that's straight-forward.  Point being is that those who enabled piracy on the PS3, *cough George Hotz*, inadvertently or not, have pretty much shattered the trust Sony put in the community by even having OtherOS in the first place. Regardless of whether the PS3 succeeds or not, what Hotz has taught Sony is this: don't trust your user-base it'll just bitch-slap you and run away with free-games.  He's pretty much killed any chance of having any derivative of Linux on any future console.  Nintendo and Microsoft will just look back on Sony's PS3 while developing their consoles to justify not supporting otherOS's or Homebrew. 

The point I'm trying to make is this, you all act as if Sony/Geohot hasn't set a precadent yet, and you're right as far as consumer-rights go,  but from a developmental point of view it already has and it's going to severely impact the future of game-console development.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 20, 2011)

Seeing as I don't have a PS3...let me get this straight:

You bought a PS3 and agreed to a EULA right there on the spot?  Hmm...  From my understanding, those EULAs that are actually printed on paper are bullshit since you can't even read them until after you've purchased and opened said product.

The only EULAs I've been presented with from MS regarding my XBOX 360 came from accessing and updating via their network.  I completely understand and agree with those.  They are trying to protect their own networks.  When bought my PSP (which I no longer have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) the only EULA I physically agreed to was to access PSN.  There was no prompt during the initial setup process for either system that required me to agree to using the hardware as they "intended".  They've merely asked that the networks and software purchased from them only be used as "intended".


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## Sterling (Feb 20, 2011)

Like everyone has said, geohot is no longer the focus. It has moved past that, and has now potentially encompassed every single person who purchases anything here in the US. US law doesn't necessarily affect people in other countries, but once this goes down against consumers I have a feeling this won't be pretty for anyone else.

I buy a console, or a PC. I fully expect to be able to do anything to my purchase that I want. Whether this be hacking it, launching it from a slingshot, or taking a shotgun to it. If Sony or anyone doesn't want me online with my hacked console, then so be it. I don't need your smelly [un]secure network to fully enjoy my property. Its my console I'll mod it when I want to, where I want to, and how I want to.

I am really getting pissed at people who want Sony to win. It makes no sense. Look past the individual, and into the collective. Unless you live on the north pole, you've bought something somewhere, and this not only includes you, but will define what you can do. Don't support the individual, support the idea he is fighting for.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Old8oy said:
			
		

> You bought a PS3 and agreed to a EULA right there on the spot?  Hmm...  From my understanding, those EULAs that are actually printed on paper are bullshit since you can't even read them until after you've purchased and opened said product.Yup, and that's part of the reason you never see an EULA enforced for products like this.  What's to stop somebody from claiming they agreed under duress?  I mean if I worked a few months to save up $300 to buy a product and then find I can't use it until I agree to this EULA (which I'm only presented after buying AND opening it) and if I don't I'm out $300, it wouldn't be a far cry to claim duress.
> 
> QUOTE(Old8oy @ Feb 20 2011, 03:26 PM) The only EULAs I've been presented with from MS regarding my XBOX 360 came from accessing and updating via their network.  I completely understand and agree with those.  They are trying to protect their own networks.  When bought my PSP (which I no longer have
> 
> ...


That's a TOS, not an EULA.  While EULAs combined with physical products are generally a joke (only enforced if they're combined with an NDA for developers or something like that), a TOS is a different matter and should be adhered to.


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## girugamarc (Feb 20, 2011)

fudgenuts64 said:
			
		

> I'm on the fence. I would love for Sony to lose in court but like other people have said Geohot is a fag bag.



He might be an egotistical bastard.

But guess what? He's a freaking genuis that has contributed a whole lot to many homebrew communities.

He's better at what he does than you probably are at what you do. Haters gonna hate.

I donated $5. It's all a poor college student like me could give.


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## Joe88 (Feb 20, 2011)

girugamarc said:
			
		

> He's better at what he does than you probably are at what you do. Haters gonna hate.


and your one of the reasons why his head is so big


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## girugamarc (Feb 20, 2011)

you're*

Look past his big-headedness and realize that what he has done is great. If you're on the fence about donating because you have some personal gripe against him, stop hating on him for his personality just for a couple seconds and you'll see that a lot of the things he made possible would not exist right now, or they would have taken a lot longer than normal without him. Hell, if he's great at what he does, then let the man brag. As long as he delivers I could give a shit less about how big his ego is, you all are just a bunch of end-user haters.

anyways, like what everyone else said, this isn't even about geohot anymore. It's about all hackers of all consoles/electronics.


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## GH0ST (Feb 20, 2011)

There is no big picture here. I do not hate/love him. I expect *nothing* from this very particular case and I don't trust him or support him in anyway. Same for fony I don't buy them anymore for years.

The weird wrong  part is here for me :



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> *Again, it's not about me*, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and *I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers* that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down.* In fact, I want the opposite reputation set*, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. *I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play*, and itching to get my hands on the Next *GEOHOT Project.*
> 
> QUOTEI'm going out to buy a Windows 7 phone


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## WiiUBricker (Feb 20, 2011)

Lets say GeoHot wins. But what then? Who is the real winner of this case? The hackers? I dont think so, hackers would still hack regardless of the outcome of this case.  The real winners are the pirates and people who will turn to pirates because of Sonys actions.


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## jonesman99 (Feb 20, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Old8oy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you are not going to. In the end, it all comes down to money and Public Relations. A company that makes games for Sony that hear about the recent turmoil, is NOT going to release statements, be it good or bad, about the situation. They are going to stay as far away from it as possible, because they are currently still making money from Sony.

The other company reacting to Sony's recent overreactions isn't going to look good for the industry as a whole. But trust, these companies are paying attention to them. If the other company ends up cutting ties with Sony after all this, then you will know their reaction to the situation.


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## girugamarc (Feb 20, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> Lets say GeoHot wins. But what then? Who is the real winner of this case? The hackers? I dont think so, hackers would still hack regardless of the outcome of this case.  The real winners are the pirates and people who will turn to pirates because of Sonys actions.


Sure hackers and homebrew will still continue. Until Sony goes after them as well.

Sony winning this case = Sony's balls get huge and they go after everyone else they don't like.


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## Rydian (Feb 20, 2011)

Let me word that better...

If Sony wins this, it tells them and all the other companies they can sue people for trying to hack their products and win.


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## GH0ST (Feb 21, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Let me word that better...
> 
> If Sony wins this, it tells them and all the other companies they can sue people for trying to hack their products and win.


Chilling effect... they did it already.


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## GundamXXX (Feb 21, 2011)

I hope Sony wins. End of story

Why?

Because everyone will still be able to jailbreak their console but just not go online with it and that suits me fine
PS3 hacking has showed what it does for the online community, so has PC hacking 

I think that online gameplay is a reason to buy a game because if you want to play something online it means you actually enjoy the game enough to waste hours and hours playing against other people and that means the company made a good game in your opinion and that means they deserve your support

if you dont like the company because they milk games then dont play their games.

Unless ofcourse you willingly admit you pirate because you are a cheapskate and dont want to spend money on games and just want to abuse the situation. If that is the case then Sony has a right to win since they are suing geohotz for this exact reason

So in the end if you pirate no problem but be honest with yourself and everyone else


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## Maedhros (Feb 21, 2011)

WiiBricker said:
			
		

> Lets say GeoHot wins. But what then? Who is the real winner of this case? The hackers? I dont think so, hackers would still hack regardless of the outcome of this case.  The real winners are the pirates and people who will turn to pirates because of Sonys actions.


Nobody will win in the end. Sony is losing money and time as is Geohot.

@Wiibricker
Pirates are pirates, regardless of Sony actions.


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## donelwero (Feb 21, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> I hope Sony wins. End of story
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



Not everygame is made by sony. In fact, they barely have good online games. I do believe in supporting the company that made a good game. But understand something, when you buy a console: IT'S YOURS. You can do whatever you want with it.

You're right about anything else, but you can't let sony f*ck your freedom, you paid for the console and every service they have to give you, but that's it. They do not own that console you paid for anymore.


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## lochoko (Feb 21, 2011)

Sony has *every* right to ban you from PSN. It's their network, offered to you free of charge and you agree to their Terms of Service regarding their network when you sign up for a PSN account.

Banning from PSN is akin to being banned from AOL for illegal activities (phishing, scamming, spamming, etc.) It's their service, they can do as they wish.

If Sony wins, homebrew/CFW would become legal. Piracy would still be illegal and developers/Sony could still ban you from PSN for hacking (It's their network.)

However, if Sony wins this lawsuit, they will be setting a precedence. They will be making it illegal to do what you wish with your hardware. They will be saying "You rented this PS3 from us, we get to decide what you can do with it and when."

It'll be akin to Verizon/AT&T saying "You know how you call your mother/father/significant other/etc every day and talk for three hours? Yeah, you can only call them at 7pm and talk until 7:45pm. Trying to get around this will result in a lawsuit."

It'll be akin to Apple/Microsoft/your mp3 player of choice saying "You know that band you like? Yeah, we don't like them and any mp3 we find of theirs on your player will be removed. Trying to get around this will result in a lawsuit."

It'll be akin to Dell/HP/Toshiba/etc saying "You can only install Windows ME on this machine. You'd like 7? You'd like Linux? Too bad, you only have permission to run ME. Installing another OS will result in a lawsuit."

And if Sony wins, these other companies would actually have permission to start selling their hardware with these restrictions. It's called legal precedence, look it up. Actually, I've done the work for you.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> I hope Sony wins. End of story
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


What? I thought geohotz was anti-piracy. How are they suing him for something he didn't do?

I do not think there suing him for piracy...


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 21, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> I hope Sony wins. End of story
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


Complete ignorance of the situation (in assuming that all who commit digital piracy are cheapskates and that if Sony wins the hacking community won't have to step back into the stone age), combined with a dash of vague capitalist ideology: Corporate claptrap at its finest. Nothing of what you said makes compelling case in favor of Sony. Also, why are you assuming that people who support the PS3 must also support Sony? It's perfectly possible to support the hardware without the condoning the tactics that the company uses to "protect" it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He wasn't defying it, he was being a dick. If he realized that yeah, he's being wrongly prosecuted, and just stayed on that instead of trying to martyr himself then yeah, maybe I'd feel sympathetic. But no, he decided to poke the big bear and now he's asking us to help him deal with his problem.

There's revolutionary figures and then there's those that try to be revolutionary figures. I know when someone who stands for something more than trying to milk his few minutes in the spotline and realized he gripped that utter a bit too hard and actually stands for some real change comes along, and then I'll support them.

And believe it or not, as evil as corporations may be, we'd be doomed without them nowadays. Not something we all particularly enjoy but they can't just go down and trying to take down the corporations results in our own demise.


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## Rydian (Feb 21, 2011)

Hey guild.  You want Marcam and Bushing to lose to Sony, too?

'Cause in case you haven't actually been following the case, they're part of the same suit.

Just nobody's mentioning them because they're not easy targets for anger.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Hey guild.  You want Marcam and Bushing to lose to Sony, too?
> 
> 'Cause in case you haven't actually been following the case, they're part of the same suit.
> 
> Just nobody's mentioning them because they're not easy targets for anger.



This isn't their defense fund, unless I'm wrong.

I mean I don't really care. I'm ignorant in that sense but it doesn't affect me. There was a time I used to care about other people's issues but I've since lost that sense. 

Some struggles are bad and unfair, but in all honesty, if I had $5 to donate to someone, I don't think The GeoHot foundation's gonna break my top ten. I'll take starving children in Africa or AIDS first.


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## Law (Feb 21, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Rydian said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unless you're going to go to Africa and give a guy $5, I wouldn't bother. $4.50 of your $5 donation would be eaten up in "admin fees" and end up being given as a bonus to whoever is in charge of the charity at the end of the year.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 21, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> He wasn't defying it, he was being a dick.
> Oh, my mistake. I guess his defense fund is just yet another bicycle pump for his swollen head, too? Hotz's ego is not all there is to the case, and it's a logical weakness on your part make it so. Like it or not, his struggle with Sony is now intimately bound up with the opposition between digital circumvention and corporate hegemony. The "big bear," as you put it, needs to be brought down. Sony has partially plagiarized the PATRIOT act playbook in establishing their crumbling control over the PS3. As I've said before, Sony does not deserve to be defended. George Hotz's errors in judgment in this matter are infinitesimal when placed against the actions of a multinational conglomerate.
> 
> QUOTE(Guild McCommunist @ Feb 20 2011, 08:37 PM) There's revolutionary figures and then there's those that try to be revolutionary figures. I know when someone who stands for something more than trying to milk his few minutes in the spotline and realized he gripped that utter a bit too hard and actually stands for some real change comes along, and then I'll support them.
> ...


I disagree with you on all counts. You're holding an individual accountable for his ego while Sony continues to try to limit and obstruct the functionality of the PS3 for their end-users. Sony and Hotz aren't, and never were, on a level playing field. Your logic also assumes that the current economic system will stand for the rest of time, that the corruption of these ruling classes is essential to the function of everyday life. Given the flow of history, I cannot agree. The ancient Roman and Greek regimes were supplanted by the medieval aristocracy, which in turn was overthrown by capitalism; capitalism will also, in my opinion, eventually get his day as well.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2011)

Law said:
			
		

> Unless you're going to go to Africa and give a guy $5, I wouldn't bother. $4.50 of your $5 donation would be eaten up in "admin fees" and end up being given as a bonus to whoever is in charge of the charity at the end of the year.
> 
> Honestly, money is still going to them. There was kinda a debate on this type of thing when there was the Haiti earthquake and people were talking about donations. I basically said that yeah, maybe they're not getting 100% of my donation, but they're getting some of it. And to say that you won't donate any money to them because someone else will receive part of it is much worse than donating to them, having some poor kid get a portion of that donation, and some fat cat running off with a bit of it. Either way some poor sap is still getting some money. But I digress.
> 
> ...



Capitalism won't end by some smug prick trying to stand up to the big dog and, at most, escaping with minor casualties. Yeah, Sony's bullying him, and yeah, I don't exactly think it's ethical, but I honestly stopped giving a shit about all this a time ago. At one point I used to care about politics and all that crap. I used to love getting into the debates. And then I realized that I won't be making any change, sitting on my computer, writing lengthy rebuttals on politics and economics on a gaming forum comprised mostly of giddy men waiting for the next Mario game. If I want to make some real change then I'll wait until I become the biggest bad ass known to man and have leverage.

Fact is, we rely on corporations for everything. I'm sure you're typing on a computer made by products that are made by a corporation. It's not like you went out their and built your own computer from when it was nothing more than metals. If we have no corporations then we, as a dependent society, won't be able to get our essentials. It's not a nice reality but fact is everything we do every day is probably made possible because some corporation somewhere made it possible. Of course they realize this and bend us over the bench for it, but it's the only way things will happen for a long time, probably way past our lifetimes.


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## Fear Zoa (Feb 21, 2011)

ahh jeez we're still arguing about this?
Can't we just agree that people have very different opinions on this.....those who want to support him..by all means go ahead.....and those who don't...we get it...you hate geohot.....no really you guys have made your point......at this point its just incessant rambling....


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## Rydian (Feb 21, 2011)

I didn't mean for donating, but for wishing who wins/loses this case.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 21, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> I just want to play fucking video games. I mean, this is a video game forum, not some big stage for political debates.
> Since this case has given us an opportunity to see the disgusting length Sony and corporate entities will go to usurp the end-user's purchasing power, I believe it is very political. It doesn't matter whether this is uttered in a video game forum or a thread whose topic is debating which flavor of Triscuits is best. To be perfectly blunt: It's political, so get over it.
> 
> QUOTE(Guild McCommunist @ Feb 20 2011, 09:07 PM) Capitalism won't end by some smug prick trying to stand up to the big dog and, at most, escaping with minor casualties. Yeah, Sony's bullying him, and yeah, I don't exactly think it's ethical, but I honestly stopped giving a shit about all this a time ago. At one point I used to care about politics and all that crap. I used to love getting into the debates. And then I realized that I won't be making any change, sitting on my computer, writing lengthy rebuttals on politics and economics on a gaming forum comprised mostly of giddy men waiting for the next Mario game. If I want to make some real change then I'll wait until I become the biggest bad ass known to man and have leverage.
> ...


I never said that Sony would be taken down by George Hotz alone. Put words into people's mouths much? And if you "don't give a shit," why are you bothering to even comment on the matter? Repeating that Hotz is a "dick" over and over again does nothing but show how much you like to spin your wheels in everybody's face. So corporate dependency is a part of life under capitalism. Does that mean that customers simply have to lie back and take it as it comes, to not stand up for their elementary rights? The main problem is that corporations are constructed to operate in the interests of the rich and powerful, not the consumers. For you to sigh, "That's simply the way it is, the end," is a pretty disgusting and reactionary stance (I know you didn't actually say that, but it's your argument in a nutshell).


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## Midna (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm not sure what you personally think of George Hotz really matters here. If he loses, it will establish president. Then there will be far firmer grounds for further suits on people you may like more than Hotz himself. But if he wins, this will be a major victory for hackers everywhere.

Right now Sony is saying they can do whatever they like, regardless of actual law. This is our chance to prove them wrong.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> *stuff*



I'm saying you came to a video game forum to talk about politics. Nothing will change from that. You might convince a few turtlenecks that capitalism is evil (and yeah, I'm no fan of it), but no change will come to the world. It's not like you'll start a revolution or bring down capitalism. It's a sad fact, but it's true.

Maybe it's "disgusting" that I gave up hope on the fight but I'm not gonna do anything here. I came here because I got a flashcart a few years ago and wanted to talk about Pokemon or something. That's about it. I was more politically involved in the years afterwards but nowadays I'm irritable and pessimistic. Now I'm just sick of this fucking Hotz v. Sony crap. It's unethical and people will go and point to this as "OH LOOK CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL", but any idiot with half a brain knows they spank their customers because they're powerful and because they have lots of money. This case doesn't change anything but give a few Captain Obvious' the opportunity to say point out the obvious.

The end fact is this: Sony are douches but I like my PSP. Bringing down Sony would mean ending a form of entertainment. I don't want to merely survive, I want the spice of life. By spice I mean something fun to do, and usually those things are video games made by corporations. Nothing revolutionary will happen in my lifetime about this issue and nothing revolutionary will come of me in my lifetime no matter how much I scream and shout. I just want to have as much fun as I can without becoming a detractor on society before I leave the stage.

Honestly, I'm just done with debating this. Go ahead and say "Woah-hoh you just have no leg to stand on so I won!", I'm just sick of this. There's a reason I stopped debating political crap a while ago and I remember why: the debates go nowhere. People can change their views on video games but they're a bunch of stubborn pricks when it comes to politics.


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## Jan1tor (Feb 21, 2011)

I hope George wins.
It is really needed for him to win.
You own your hardware and should be able to do with it what you want.

What would be next? Sony saying you can't add other hardware devices?
What if you came up with a fantastic controller that just put theirs to shame....Oops not allowed to use it , Sony doesn't like it, they'll start loosing money because people won't be buying their controller. Oops you  can't put your own external hard drive on, or keyboard, or memory. You'll have to buy Sony memory.
Next Sony will be telling you ,you can only hook your PS3 up to a Sony television.

Where would the computer industry be today if there was no hacking, no homebrew, no imagination of what you could do with your own hardware?
We would probably still be back in the 8 bit ages.

This is way more than about George and his attitude. It is about control. And Sony has too much and the don't care about YOUR rights! Why should we care about theirs!

Go George Go!


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 21, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> Honestly, I'm just done with debating this. Go ahead and say "Woah-hoh you just have no leg to stand on so I won!", I'm just sick of this.


I was never going to say anything of the sort. I will only say that I'm sorry you've given up.


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## Maedhros (Feb 21, 2011)

Looking on geohot blog, he already got some money. If you guys want to help him, donate and stop trying to make people see this as good cause.

Think about the people working on Sony, how many small studios will break because of the piracy, how many people will be unployed from Sony, how the studios will stop making games because of the smaller profit...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'm joking.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 21, 2011)

MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
			
		

> I will only say that I'm sorry you've given up.



Quite honestly, I am too.


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## TheDarkSeed (Feb 21, 2011)

Well I want homebrew on my console. If I have this powerful console that I paid so much money for and find out that it's capabilities can be expanded through homebrew, then this I believe is worth fighting for. If there's even a chance that geohot will pull through, then I will support him.

@Guild: You shouldn't be so upset Sony is a Huge company. I don't think they'll go anywhere anytime soon. The fact that their fighting this is because they have so much money. They're not like Xbox or Nintendo. Their market is expanded far and they have many sources of income. It would take a lot to bring Sony down.

...Liksang


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## TheDarkSeed (Feb 21, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Looking on geohot blog, he already got some money. If you guys want to help him, donate and stop trying to make people see this as good cause.
> 
> Think about the people working on Sony, how many small studios will break because of the piracy, how many people will be unployed from Sony, how the studios will stop making games because of the smaller profit...
> 
> ...


Fix'd


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 21, 2011)

Jan1tor said:
			
		

> I hope George wins.
> What would be next? Sony saying you can't add other hardware devices?
> What if you came up with a fantastic controller that just put theirs to shame....Oops not allowed to use it , Sony doesn't like it, they'll start loosing money because people won't be buying their controller. Oops you  can't put your own external hard drive on, or keyboard, or memory. You'll have to buy Sony memory.
> Next Sony will be telling you ,you can only hook your PS3 up to a Sony television.
> ...


Source: http://us.playstation.com/support/useragre...serviceagreemt/


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## Eckin (Feb 21, 2011)

Wow, I must applaud you people who keep trying to point what is behind this case to these peeps who keep shouting piracy and geohot

You guys have the patience of Buddha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Everywhere I see people talking about this case, a nice share of them keep shouting these same things and never try to understand why this case matters. I think GeoHot is egotistical, but these people are just about the same.


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## DSGamer64 (Feb 21, 2011)

Not gonna lie, the guy has some serious balls. I hope he sticks it to Sony and this makes them fuck off for good. The odds of Sony winning this case are low, seeing as how they have to prove that he hacked the PS3 in order to use it for piracy, which they legitimately can't without making themselves look stupid in the process. I am all in support of homebrew and think it should be supported and accepted by the manufacturers, or at least they should have a way of allowing independent developers to make their own content to be distributed for every other user to have access too. There is so much potential coming from the homebrew development scene that these big corporations don't know about, why block it from being used when it's not harming your system any?


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

DSGamer64 said:
			
		

> Not gonna lie, the guy has some serious balls. I hope he sticks it to Sony and this makes them fuck off for good. The odds of Sony winning this case are low, seeing as how they have to prove that he hacked the PS3 in order to use it for piracy, which they legitimately can't without making themselves look stupid in the process. I am all in support of homebrew and think it should be supported and accepted by the manufacturers, or at least they should have a way of allowing independent developers to make their own content to be distributed for every other user to have access too. There is so much potential coming from the homebrew development scene that these big corporations don't know about, why block it from being used when it's not harming your system any?


The case is not about geohot pirating games, it's about him hacking the PS3 and releasing the key to the public. Big difference.


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## fgghjjkll (Feb 21, 2011)

Guild McCommunist said:
			
		

> MEGAMANTROTSKY said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And why would this lawsuit take down Sony?
Sony is a multibillion corporation. The most George can get Sony to do is to reintroduce OtherOS, or some other method of launching homebrew software.

George's lawsuit with Apple resulted in the DMCA being changed, and that's it. Apple still continues to produce their iProducts, because they still have the money and global influence to keep them in the game.


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## Sterling (Feb 21, 2011)

I know I don't listen more than I talk irl, and I always fess up when I'm wrong. I've been wrong on numerous occasions throughout the length of this debate. Though I generally read more than I actually post (on the internet), I also rebuke any comment that seems wrong to me, but is also biased. In short not only has there been ignorance throughout this topic (its been clean mostly thus far), but so much bias and brandboyism that makes me sick. Guild: Get your head out of your PSP for a second. Not only will Sony continue to function, but with all the money they have, I wouldn't be surprised if all they see on their profit chart is a slight (very slight) blip. Possibly only viewable by magnifying glass. They will continue to make games regardless of what the outcome is, but only one outcome is in favor of us. The one that allows us to do what we want with the stuff we buy. The other one not only fucks us over, but prevents reverse engineering and general usefulness of closed systems.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> I know I don't listen more than I talk irl, and I always fess up when I'm wrong. I've been wrong on numerous occasions throughout the length of this debate. Though I generally read more than I actually post (on the internet), I also rebuke any comment that seems wrong to me, but is also biased. In short not only has there been ignorance throughout this topic (its been clean mostly thus far), but so much bias and brandboyism that makes me sick. Guild: Get your head out of your PSP for a second. Not only will Sony continue to function, but with all the money they have, I wouldn't be surprised if all they see on their profit chart is a slight (very slight) blip. Possibly only viewable by magnifying glass. They will continue to make games regardless of what the outcome is, but only one outcome is in favor of us. The one that allows us to do what we want with the stuff we buy. The other one not only fucks us over, but prevents reverse engineering and general usefulness of closed systems.


Well when you put it like that, I really hope Sony wins.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Argentum Vir said:
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Are you being sarcastic? That mean less freedom/no freedom? on our devices.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> antwill said:
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Firstly, yes, notice the emoticon? Secondly like any normal person cares, all they want in a games console is to play their bloody games, not bitch that it doesn't support .mkv's, or spend their time pirating games instead of looking for a job.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
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I wasn't sure.

Define normal person. Normal person as in I, want to be able to do anything(in legal boundaries) with my device as in play homebrew.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> antwill said:
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Normal person: Someone who uses a games console to play games. Someone who doesn't care about all this 'hacking' business. You know, the type of person who goes out to the store to buy a game they know they want, with their hard earned money, and want nothing more but to sit back and relax and play ____. Not someone who bitches and moans and wonders when console _____ is going to be hacked before it's even released, or if flashcarts will work with it. (Yes I'm aware I just described 80% of this forum in that last sentence.)


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 21, 2011)

Fuck, I would love to be able to play every movie file type from a PS3. That would save me so much money and hassle.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Normal person: Someone who uses a games console to play games. Someone who doesn't care about all this 'hacking' business. You know, the type of person who goes out to the store to buy a game they know they want, with their hard earned money, and want nothing more but to sit back and relax and play ____. Not someone who bitches and moans and wonders when console _____ is going to be hacked before it's even released, or if flashcarts will work with it. (Yes I'm aware I just described 80% of this forum in that last sentence.)


Who uses a games console to play games? Yet some people mostly bought it for the blu-ray player(not saying they just bought it for that just that were one of there reasons).You calling those people not normal? 

You keep trying to lump hard worker, hackers or maybe relatively poor with lazy pirates.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> antwill said:
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Compared to those who use it to play games (even the hackers), those who bought it for blu-ray purposes alone are relatively small and insignificant.

And no, I'm not lumping hard workers or hackers with lazy pirates. That post and hell, most of my posts in this topic have nothing to do with piracy... Unless of course when you say freedom, you mean the ability to pirate games, otherwise how did you get that from my last couple of posts?


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> KingVamp said:
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No, because you keep saying people who work hard to earn money to buy stuff and Idn see what that has to do with wanting to do anything with my device(legally) . That why I assume you was talking about piracy. 

Unless you saying hard working people shouldn't be able to do anything with their device(legally) then that doesn't make any sense.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> No, because you keep saying people who work hard to earn money to buy stuff and Idn see what that has to do with wanting to do anything with my device(legally) . That why I assume you was talking about piracy.
> 
> Unless you saying hard working people shouldn't be able to do anything with their device(legally) then that doesn't make any sense.


Because barely anyone cares about hacking their console to play pirated games or use homebrew. (Going by what people on this very forum have said.) Therefore I used hard working people who buy their games as the common example because it is a lot better than spoilt children getting their parents to buy them games... And of course, you pointed out something I overlooked, 'normal' was a bad choice of words, however I can't really think of another word to describe what I mean, basically I meant someone who is in the majority. I didn't say anything about anyone not allowed to do something, I was describing the majority of people who buy games consoles, and how they use them; to play their games. Or do you think everyone is a lazy teenager with no job who thinks hacking is cool and enjoys pirating games and play 'homebrew' and just magically can afford games even though they don't work and spend their time on the internet?


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## Sterling (Feb 21, 2011)

Jesus, that tears it. Antwill has not a single fucking clue. Man, if there was a more normal/boring person than me, it would be a skinny me. I have a job, a 360 that isn't hacked, a DS with quite a few physical copies of games and a Micro with retail carts galore. Saying everybody who is normal doesn't care is about as true as saying I'm not fat. It. Just. Doesn't. Work. Who are you to say what everyone else thinks? You are one person, everyone else isn't you. As far as I'm concerned, the things you just said invalidates every semi intelligent post you ever made. Seriously, as far as intelligence and ignorance goes, you rate less than a 75. Seriously get a life, and a clue.

tldr: Fuck you, because everyone is not you.

What I want to know is how old are you. You must seriously think that the majority of users don't care. Its not a matter of not caring, its a matter of fear, and lack of reading capability. Normal users fear the ban hammer. Normal users like their online. Normal users don't read. Above average users are the ones with enough intelligence to actually follow instructions.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> Jesus, that tears it. Antwill has not a single fucking clue. Man, if there was a more normal/boring person than me, it would be a skinny me. I have a job, a 360 that isn't hacked, a DS with quite a few physical copies of games and a Micro with retail carts galore. Saying everybody who is normal doesn't care is about as true as saying I'm not fat. It. Just. Doesn't. Work. Who are you to say what everyone else thinks? You are one person, everyone else isn't you. As far as I'm concerned, the things you just said invalidates every semi intelligent post you ever made. Seriously, as far as intelligence and ignorance goes, you rate less than a 75. Seriously get a life, and a clue.
> 
> tldr: Fuck you, because everyone is not you.


Umm you're the ignorant one. I said in the majority, and of course there's going to be exceptions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Talk about being clueless...


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Argentum Vir said:
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He was saying majority is your opinion not fact.


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## Sterling (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Argentum Vir said:
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Mmmhmmm, I read that. Honestly, I don't care who the majority is. The majority of PC users like having software, and the freedom to choose. Why you continue to argue what your perception of normal is, is beyond me. The majority doesn't count here. The majority counts when someone takes a vote. When this precedence is set, I hope that we the buyers have our rights intact.

@KingVamp: Not only that, but there is no arguing with this fail troll. I will be laughing when everyone here who wants Sony to win gets their wishes, start complaining because they can't mod their consoles. >.< Posting smileys out of spite also is inappropriate and just make people angry. I hope the mods are taking this seriously, and are handing out warns and stuff where applicable. Because people really have not a single clue.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> Mmmhmmm, I read that. Honestly, I don't care who the majority is. The majority of PC users like having software, and the freedom to choose. Why you continue to argue what your perception of normal is, is beyond me. The majority doesn't count here. The majority counts when someone takes a vote. When this precedence is set, I hope that we the buyers have our rights intact.
> 
> @KingVamp: Not only that, but there is no arguing with this fail troll. I will be laughing when everyone here who wants Sony to win gets their wishes, start complaining because they can't mod their consoles. >.< Posting smileys out of spite also is inappropriate and just make people angry. I hope the mods are taking this seriously, and are handing out warns and stuff where applicable. Because people really have not a single clue.


Okay you don't seem to understand so I feel I should spell it out for you, probably from your quick to judge and name call instead of thinking. The majority is everyone's perception of normal. How do you not see this? You see a lot of people doing something, you think "oh wow that is normal." This works for most things. Before you say anything because I know you're quick to react, I said 'most' as in not a definite answer for all. Of course there will be exceptions. And besides, your argument before lacked any real weight at all. You go and spend all this time saying how you buy games and don't even back it up with anything. What am I just meant to assume you hack consoles? Also you realise I could throw your argument of "who are you to say what's normal for everyone else. you're just one person" right back at you right? Everyone isn't you, therefore your opinion doesn't count either.


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## Eckin (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the PS3 was advertised as a media center kind of thing. And if I understand some of their campaigns (like "It only does everything"), it still IS advertised as such.

Just because you use your PS3 (if you even got one) for games and only that, doesn't mean it's not supposed to do everthing else.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure the PS3 was advertised as a media center kind of thing. And if I understand some of their campaigns (like "It only does everything"), it still IS advertised as such.
> 
> Just because you use your PS3 (if you even got one) for games and only that, doesn't mean it's not supposed to do everthing else.


Except the "it only does everything" is obviously a clever marketing hyperbole. And I'm fairly sure anyone can tell you it was not meant to run homebrew or custom firmware...


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Eckin said:
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Except it was meant to be a multimedia device. Homebrew is a from of media. Even OtherOS was there for that until it got removed.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> antwill said:
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Well saying it's a multimedia device is all well and good however that still doesn't change the fact that if Sony meant for it to run homebrew on anything other than OtherOS which they removed from the phats, (coincidentally after stating they would keep it on there) after geohot announced his hack requiring it back in January, they would have allowed you to.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

Rydian said that they wasn't going to bring it back regardless because of cost. 

Then they should have keep OtherOS or find another way to let you play homebrew. 

If it wasn't remove then it be no point in trying to hack the device.

Plus if something was able to get hack for the wrong purpose then it should be fix and then given back.  

Not take things away permanently just because there it a hack risk.

Anyway why should they be able to tell you what homebrew you should run if it not illegal?


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## Sterling (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Okay you don't seem to understand so I feel I should spell it out for you, probably from your quick to judge and name call instead of thinking. The majority is everyone's perception of normal. How do you not see this? You see a lot of people doing something, you think "oh wow that is normal." This works for most things. Before you say anything because I know you're quick to react, I said 'most' as in not a definite answer for all. Of course there will be exceptions. And besides, your argument before lacked any real weight at all. You go and spend all this time saying how you buy games and don't even back it up with anything. What am I just meant to assume you hack consoles? Also you realise I could throw your argument of "who are you to say what's normal for everyone else. you're just one person" right back at you right? Everyone isn't you, therefore your opinion doesn't count either.


You assume that every hacker is a pirate. Its clear from every post that you must think this.

You assume that "normal" is the majority. This isn't the case. Before I hacked my consoles, I bought and played games. When I learned that I could play backups of games and use individual created apps and games, two weeks later I had my m3Real. Look, I never said I bought every game I have ever pirated. I tried before I bought. The fact that its so easy to do piracy is the one reason there are flash cards.

Go ahead throw it back at at me. I don't think your argument holds water any longer. You make purposely vague statements and claims that can go either way, just so if someone calls you on it, you can make it seem like you meant something one way instead of the other. You overuse generalizations and make yourself look like an idiot in the process.

Also, what do you want me to do? Post receipts of all the games I have ever bought? With personal information and contact info? On the internet? Look, I don't have to satisfy you. You want satisfaction, go play your PS3 on 5.56 OFW, and while your doing it, laugh everytime you have to agree to a TOS, and stay away from the forum with the people who's ideologies differ so much from your own.

Just because a majority is jumping off a craggy cliff, doesn't mean I want to jump with them. If that is how "normal" people think, then I guess I'm abnormal and proud.

EDIT: Hey Rydian, I need you to continue copypasta the "Sony removed otherOS to cut costs from systems BEFORE geohot announced his hack" comment, because apparently people STILL don't get it.


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## Giga_Gaia (Feb 21, 2011)

I hope Geohot wins this, not that he can even lose anyway. Sony deserves a big slap in the face.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> EDIT: Hey Rydian, I need you to continue copypasta the "Sony removed otherOS to cut costs from systems BEFORE geohot announced his hack" comment, because apparently people STILL don't get it.



From Slim consoles, you would be right, but from fat consoles, it was for secuity issues.


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## antwill (Feb 21, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> You assume that every hacker is a pirate. Its clear from every post that you must think this.
> 
> You assume that "normal" is the majority. This isn't the case. Before *I* hacked my consoles, *I* bought and played games. When *I* learned that *I* could play backups of games and use individual created apps and games, two weeks later *I* had my m3Real. Look, *I* never said *I* bought every game *I* have ever pirated. *I* tried before *I* bought. The fact that its so easy to do piracy is the one reason there are flash cards.
> 
> ...


Source.

Also you say I look like an idiot using generalisations, yet you're the one who actually used the word 'copypasta'... (mods why is there no facepalm emoticon?!)


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## GundamXXX (Feb 21, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> GundamXXX said:
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Yes, I have complete ignorance of the situation... Ive not been following this from day 1 at all nor have I talked about it or thought about it...
Im not saying support Sony, Im saying support the dev's of games not Sony, if only you had read my post then that wouldve been clear
Also the support for Sony is a bit wishywashy for me. I support that they go after pirates but what I dont support the the extensiveness in their ways ie. going after the YouTube users who viewed the video
The amount of people that pirate because they dont want to spend money is about 100% and a small percentage of that ends up buying the game to support the dev but that percentage is really small
And who cares if hackers have to go back in time, its a risk of the "job". Its like saying "I dont wanna get shot" and you still become a soldier

People want best of both worlds: free stuff and for it to be legal. Thats not going to happen, if you want free stuff then you will have to get it illigally and thats that. You cant blame Sony for going after the people who steal from them.

Yet again this is a purely logical statement and not based on my own feelings about it.
I myself think that creators/dev/publishers etc are ripping us off by asking massive prices for shitty games and that pirating for that reason is fully justified, but I can look at htings from both ways


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## Eckin (Feb 21, 2011)

QUOTE("geohot's blog") said:
			
		

> First round of donations is closed
> Thank you so so much for all of your help, things are looking up money wise. Expect to see a few more lawyers on my responses!
> I have enough to cover my legal fees for the time being, and in the absolute worst case scenario, we don't want Sony getting it :-P



Oh man I hope he was able to hire Kristoph Gavin :­D


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## Jamstruth (Feb 21, 2011)

GundamXXX, Sony are suing Geohot over all the tools he has released to do with jailbreaking a PS3 it is an entirely seperate case than the PSN bans (which I support). If Sony win this it sets a precedent that will result in ALL hacks becoming illegal. Our flashcarts, our Homebrew Channel, our CFWs any developing of these moves from the grey area into open fire from the big corporations.
Geohot released the Private Keys for the PS3 and that's what attracted the attention. Sony are doing this in a last bid of desperation to restore their security integrity (once the number is theirs alone they can submit takedown notices). Nobody has ever gotten a console's private keys before but if Sony manage to get this number essentially copyrighted through winning this case then Nintendo could go after Twiizers for the Common Key and suddenly console hacking and homebrew are locked down by the full force of law. (And Apple will kick up a storm of that DMCA ruling about JailBreaking)


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 21, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> The amount of people that pirate because they dont want to spend money is about 100% and a small percentage of that ends up buying the game to support the dev but that percentage is really small


That pirates are killing the industry is a lie, made up by publishers to justify poor sales for shitty AAA titles.
In fact the average pirate buys more games, than a normal customer.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/20...t-customers.ars


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## Maedhros (Feb 21, 2011)

Jamstruth said:
			
		

> GundamXXX, Sony are suing Geohot over all the tools he has released to do with jailbreaking a PS3 it is an entirely seperate case than the PSN bans (which I support). If Sony win this it sets a precedent that will result in ALL hacks becoming illegal. Our flashcarts, our Homebrew Channel, our CFWs any developing of these moves from the grey area into open fire from the big corporations.
> Geohot released the Private Keys for the PS3 and that's what attracted the attention. Sony are doing this in a last bid of desperation to restore their security integrity (once the number is theirs alone they can submit takedown notices). Nobody has ever gotten a console's private keys before but if Sony manage to get this number essentially copyrighted through winning this case then Nintendo could go after Twiizers for the Common Key and suddenly console hacking and homebrew are locked down by the full force of law. (And Apple will kick up a storm of that DMCA ruling about JailBreaking)


Sony sueing Geohot for releasing the private keys, not the tools.


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## Sterling (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> Should I have to point out that *I* have only ever had to agree to 2 TOS's and neither of which were recently like everyone else claims? Also you don't even seem to understand what 'exception to the rule' means, and nor do you read everything that I post as I stated quite clearly I never said it would be a definite conclusion. But you keep going on and on with the 'I's'. I this, or I that. You make it seem as though you think the world revolves around you and in doing contradicting yourself when you say I am doing that. Your argument holds no weight and I think you're just continuing on for the sake of not having to admit you were wrong.
> 
> *Because I can only speak for myself. What is normal to you doesn't mean its normal for everyone else. What makes your definition of normal the "rule"?
> 
> ...


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## 1234turtles (Feb 21, 2011)

geohot releasing the private kays pretty much fucked the entire hacking community the flash carts, homebrew channel, rom translations are all in danger because of geohot


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

antwill said:
			
		

> I was describing the majority of people who buy games consoles, and how they use them; to play their games.


If that his point then idk how that related. He kinda went away from it. :/

Anyway if he win it may mean private keys can not be copyrighted in any condition. 

If he lose it may mean private keys can be copyrighted in a condition. 

Doesn't have to be end homebrew or homebrew grows bigger.

A least it doesn't have to be...


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## SifJar (Feb 21, 2011)

1234turtles said:
			
		

> geohot releasing the private kays pretty much fucked the entire hacking community the flash carts, homebrew channel, rom translations are all in danger because of geohot


Or you could look at it that they could potentially become far more acceptable. If Geohot wins this case, that is quite likely to be the outcome; it'll set a precedent of these things being seen as "legal".


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## shanefromoz (Feb 21, 2011)

#uck you sony.
My ps3 i will do with it what i want illegal or not.
he he he.
Hope geohot rips your arse in court sony.
Good luck geohot.


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## KingVamp (Feb 21, 2011)

shanefromoz said:
			
		

> #uck you sony.
> My ps3 i will do with it what i want *illegal* or not.
> he he he.
> Hope geohot rips your arse in court sony.
> Good luck geohot.


But that unreasonable...


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## Sylar1 (Feb 21, 2011)

The dude ***** himself over, now he wants everyone else to pay his legal fee's, what a wonderful world we live in.


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## Elmo_2xtreme (Feb 21, 2011)

Man, I'm donating my entire college fund to GeoHot, I don't give a motherfuck.
I owe a lot to this guy.


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## Jamstruth (Feb 21, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Jamstruth said:
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Think about it. Geohot AND Fail0verflow are getting sued. Its just that the Fail0verflow part isn't well publicised. They both have the private keys and have been using them to create tools to further the hacking community. its not just the release of the number Sony are after, its all these tools that blow the console wide open. Even if Geohot hadn't released the keys the system was wide for huge blows. Anybody could have found them, its just that Geohot was egotistic enough to want to be the first to publish them.
If the key is illegal, the tools are illegal, if the tools are illegal any hacking is ilelgal not just piracy.


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## Maedhros (Feb 21, 2011)

Jamstruth said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
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I don't see it this way, neither I have sufficient knowledge to answer this, I'll research more about this.


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## Jamstruth (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm just following the chain.
If Sony win then they have successfully proven that a company can "own" a number.
By "owning" this number it means that only they are allowed to use it.
If only they are allowed to use it they can put in for and be successful in any and all takedown notices for signed CFW and homebrew
If Sony can prove they can own a number, why can't any other manufacturer?
Suddenly a lot of Wii Homebrew that uses the Common Key becomes a problem. 

As for Fail0verflow. They did not release the key, they only made tools BUT they have been targetted by Sony. If that lawsuit goes through and Sony win suddenly ANY unauthorised reverse engineering of copyrighted code becomes fair game. The hacking scene would be forced waaayy underground and only those with the skills to do it themselves would be able to run unsigned code.

This is a complete worst case scenario view of things though. I'm not saying I like rampant piracy but I do enjoy emulators and creative homebrew programs.


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## antwill (Feb 22, 2011)

Argentum Vir said:
			
		

> *Because I can only speak for myself. What is normal to you doesn't mean its normal for everyone else. What makes your definition of normal the "rule"?
> 
> Define: normal
> being approximately average or within certain limits in e.g. intelligence and development; "a perfectly normal child"; "of normal intelligence"; "the most normal person I've ever met"
> ...


Because the term doesn't have spaces obviously. Also facepalm is a good reactionary descriptive term, 'copypasta' is not, and it sounds like something a 12 year old would say. Are you 12?


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## jonesman99 (Feb 22, 2011)

Wow... im sensing a little bit of tension on this topic...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 lol

But on topic: @Jamstruth, I never knew about piracy in the video game industry (how to hack consoles, download games, and reading about the consequences of it all) until the current generation. I knew it was there (*COUGH* Visual Boy Advance *COUGH*) just never used any of it.

And yea, that is a really bad looking worst case scenario, meaning that the homebrew community would be taking a leap and a bound backwards. Like back before there was the internet, people had Ataris, doing this out of their garages, and spreading it by word of mouth.

I kinda feel bad about Sony's lawyers. If only they truly knew how poorly thought out the PS3's security was. They wouldn't be making a big deal about Geohot, regardless of how big a deal he makes of himself. But I understand that they are given orders from the higher ups. But if this was a company that stood behind their products, each and every department of it would and SHOULD have got to known their product, inside and out. On top of that, they would NOT have had to do so after the fact that it got hacked.

Should have been careful of how they market their products, we take ish seriously out here in these streets...


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## KingVamp (Feb 22, 2011)

Jamstruth said:
			
		

> I'm just following the chain.
> If Sony win then they have successfully proven that a company can "own" a number.
> By "owning" this number it means that only they are allowed to use it.
> If only they are allowed to use it they can put in for and be successful in any and all takedown notices for signed CFW and homebrew
> ...


This part doesn't even matter really.


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## Law (Feb 22, 2011)

Jamstruth said:
			
		

> As for Fail0verflow. They did not release the key, they only made tools BUT they have been targetted by Sony. If that lawsuit goes through and Sony win suddenly ANY unauthorised reverse engineering of copyrighted code becomes fair game. The hacking scene would be forced waaayy underground and* only those with the skills to do it themselves would be able to run unsigned code.*



That sounds like the perfect kind of world to me. Only the people with the right skills can do it. If people want to do it, they have to learn the skills instead of relying on other people to figure it out for them. It would hopefully show all of the spoiled brats in the current "scene" that they *aren't entitled* to anything.

Ignore the signature for this post, this post is serious.


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## KingVamp (Feb 22, 2011)

Law said:
			
		

> Jamstruth said:
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um... Expect all people aren't "spoiled brats" and not all, maybe even most can not require this skill. Do you know how to? 

That like saying people who make computers shouldn't find a way to spread the devices to others.

Sound a bit selfish to me.


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## MEGAMANTROTSKY (Feb 22, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> That like saying people who make computers shouldn't find a way to spread the devices to others.
> 
> Sound a bit selfish to me.


I'd call it reactionary or elitist. Probably the latter. I would imagine the average user does not want to navigate through terminal-like settings in order to play a backup. If the community makes their work inaccessible in this way to the public, they would have no other purpose but to exist for that community; this would render the scene useless. Can you imagine what USB would have become, or wouldn't have become, if only Intel technicians were able to use it? This line of logic assumes that the world would have been better off if Prometheus hadn't bothered with fire.


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## antwill (Feb 22, 2011)

KingVamp said:
			
		

> *Are you talking about me when you post this?
> 
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No I was still talking to him, just telling him why I mentioned the phat's OtherOS removal in the first place.


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## Maedhros (Feb 22, 2011)

If you look around, you'll see the PS3 was never advertised as having Other OS, instead, on the PS3 box, it said features could change with time.


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## KingVamp (Feb 22, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> If you look around, you'll see the PS3 was never advertised as having Other OS, instead, on the PS3 box, it said features could change with time.


If so(which is mess up), it was still advertised as a multimedia device, (legal)homebrew should be allow.


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## DryYoshi (Feb 22, 2011)

Good luck to Geohot even though I don't have a PS3.
Sony really IS lame.


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## Nujui (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey guys, he close donations for the time being. Just letting you know.

Thank you so so much for all of your help, things are looking up money wise.
Expect to see a few more lawyers on my responses!
I have enough to cover my legal fees for the time being.
And in the absolute worst case scenario, we don't want Sony getting it :-P

For now, the best thing you can do is spread the word
Let people know how Sony treats customers
Let people know Sony would rather sue than be proactive and try to fix the problem
Let people know about laws like the DMCA which stifle innovation, and don't do anything to fix the problems they were created to solve

I will keep this blog updated as the case develops.
[/p]
Source


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## Eckin (Feb 22, 2011)

it's ridiculous to see people here supporting Sony instead of geohot

this is an active community with a lot of people who use homebrew (in various consoles/handhelds)

this kind of community could be forced underground if Sony wins this case

some of you are so reckless, is it naivety or just plain stupidity?


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## Maedhros (Feb 22, 2011)

Eckin said:
			
		

> it's ridiculous to see people here supporting Sony instead of geohot
> 
> this is an active community with a lot of people who use homebrew (in various consoles/handhelds)
> 
> ...


I'm stupid, herp, derp.

Maybe some people just don't care? 

And some people think this will change nothing. I don't see why support him is right and not support him is wrong.


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## Rydian (Feb 22, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> If you look around, you'll see the PS3 was never advertised as having Other OS, instead, on the PS3 box, it said features could change with time.http://n4g.com/news/1079/new-ken-kutaragi-interview
> http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/02/phil-ha...-your-computer/
> 
> I'm pretty sure Sony presented it as a personal computer when exporting it to various countries in order to get around various taxes or whatever that dealt with importing game systems, and that was used as evidence in the OtherOS suits that Sony intended it to be there all along originally.
> ...


I bet if HP tried to sue you for installing linux on your PC you'd care.


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## Maedhros (Feb 22, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Maedhros said:
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I said the on the box or television ads, not on interviews.

Yes, I would care if HP tried to control my PC, because it's a PC. I don't see consoles as being PC's, as I've already said on this thread.


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## Rydian (Feb 22, 2011)

Precedent, damnit!

What if other companies attempt to do that because of this?


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## Maedhros (Feb 22, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> Precedent, damnit!
> 
> What if other companies attempt to do that because of this?


PS3 is a dedicated device to play games.

I don't see how this will set precedent for PCs, where you can install whatever you want. The worst scenario would be we never seeing homebrews on consoles and portables anymore. Which I doubt will happen.

And if it affects PC, just then I'll be bothered.

Sony has any chance of winning this anyway?


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## Rydian (Feb 22, 2011)

If it does affect PCs and you start to care then, it'll be you versus established precedent.


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## Maedhros (Feb 22, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> If it does affect PCs and you start to care then, it'll be you versus established precedent.


I'm certain it'll be just a bit more than only me. =)


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## girugamarc (Feb 22, 2011)

Maedhros said:
			
		

> Rydian said:
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Is a bird in a hand worth two in the bush?


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## GundamXXX (Feb 22, 2011)

M[u said:
			
		

> ddy]
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Did I ever say that piracy is killing the industry? No I didnt
The industry is killing the industry with its mass production of crap games

But what I stated is true, the percentage that supports the dev is very small in comparison to those who pirate and dont support the dev


And regardless of the reason given to court (tools, keys, raping Sony's mother-in-law) the end reason for them suing him is because he made piracy a viable option for the PS3... end of story


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## Midna (Feb 22, 2011)

Rydian said:
			
		

> If it does affect PCs and you start to care then, it'll be you versus established precedent.
> QUOTE(Midna @ Feb 21 2011, 04:45 AM) I'm not sure what you personally think of George Hotz really matters here. If he loses, it will establish president. Then there will be far firmer grounds for further suits on people you may like more than Hotz himself. But if he wins, this will be a major victory for hackers everywhere.
> 
> Right now Sony is saying they can do whatever they like, regardless of actual law. This is our chance to prove them wrong.


That's what I've been saying, except nobody will listen. They seem to think that this George Hotz's personal battle, and that if they don't like him, they should root for Sony.


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## Sterling (Feb 22, 2011)

Midna said:
			
		

> Rydian said:
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That's what many of us have been saying. Then there are the people who actively post nonsense and ignorance, and then the people who read the title and skim the article. Who then fast reply with something along the lines of: "Egohotz wantz uz to donate our monies for so he don't haz to pay himself??LOlololoLLo11!"

Yea, pretty much.


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## M[u]ddy (Feb 22, 2011)

GundamXXX said:
			
		

> But what I stated is true, the percentage that supports the dev is very small in comparison to those who pirate and dont support the dev


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## Nujui (Feb 22, 2011)

Midna said:
			
		

> Rydian said:
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Very well said.

This will changes things depending on who wins.

So what if you don't like him? Look past that, think what would happen if he wins.

Or if sony wins.


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