# 11.0 or how the 3ds hacking scene died



## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

I think it's safe to say nobody will be able to downgrade from 11.o without a hardmod. We had a good run guys. Peace be with you.


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## Joom (Jun 9, 2016)

And how exactly does this equate to the death of the scene? 11.0 OFW users be buttmad up in hurr. Sorry you didn't take the train during the last six months.


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## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

The future is bleak


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## Ricken (Jun 9, 2016)

The scene is far from dead
A. CFW isn't everything
B. The 3DS scene was a thing before CFW
C. Homebrew is still a thing


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## VinsCool (Jun 9, 2016)

Just give them time to find a new kernel exploit, and that would be tits.


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## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

it'll never happen, and even if it did it wouldnt be made public. OH WOE B ME


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## sweis12 (Jun 9, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> Just give them time to find a new kernel exploit, and that would be tits.


Your avatar is so sexy! ^.- Rawr ))


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## VinsCool (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> it'll never happen, and even if it did it wouldnt be made public. OH WOE B ME


That's what everyone said after the 4.x era.

Gues what? 9.2 happened.


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## Ricken (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> it'll never happen, and even if it did it wouldnt be made public. OH WOE B ME


Hardmods aren't that much...


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## Joom (Jun 9, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> Just give them time to find a new kernel exploit, and that would be tits.


This. In the meantime, @dark_samus3 has been working on getting OTP-less A9LH to be an actual thing. He and others have been doing a lot of promising research, which really kinda denotes that the scene is far from dead.


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> Just give them time to find a new kernel exploit, and that would be tits.


Well, there's already a few private arm11 kernel exploits on 11.0, but they can't be used for downgrading anyway so we're not going to blow them yet...

Preferably someone will find an arm9 exploit first and then downgrading can become a thing again (or even better if the arm9 exploit is stable enough to not need downgrading).


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## Joom (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> it'll never happen, and even if it did it wouldnt be made public. OH WOE B ME


I mean, it is your fault for updating. Blaming the scene (which is what you're doing) is rather irresponsible.


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## SpongeFreak52 (Jun 9, 2016)

Oh shut it. You obviously weren't around for the 9.6 fiasco if you think this is the "end". Hardmodding wasn't even an option then.


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## Deleted-379826 (Jun 9, 2016)

Don't even bother it's The evolved margen: Margen68 in disguise! Before you know it all users of gbatemp will lose hope and whine about being poor for a hard mod!!!! One ban after another! 

On a serious note: lmao do some research


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## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

Joom said:


> I mean, it is your fault for updating. Blaming the scene (which is what you're doing) is rather irresponsible.



im not blaming the scene, im saying it won't progress without hardmods publicly after 11.0


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> im not blaming the scene, im saying it won't progress without hardmods publicly after 11.0


Maybe it will, who knows at this point :^)


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## Ricken (Jun 9, 2016)

The scene is dead?
look at all of us agreeing there's still work to be done


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## astrangeone (Jun 9, 2016)

I've been meaning to learn how to do micro-soldering work, but don't have to time to learn this, and the funds to acquire the stuff I need to wire everything up...

Plus, there's always a way to fix the software side to do so?  (Maybe faking the hardcoded titles somehow?)


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## Joom (Jun 9, 2016)




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## Wolfvak (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> ...it won't progress without hardmods publicly after 11.0



Are you serious? Of course, you're only thinking about CFW / Piracy.
You obviously have no idea of how much userland homebrew has been created. And not only emulators or small utilities, but at least two full games have been ported over.


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

Wolfvak said:


> Are you serious? Of course, you're only thinking about CFW / Piracy.
> You obviously have no idea of how much userland homebrew has been created. And not only emulators or small utilities, but at least two full games have been ported over.


Especially given the (albeit most likely temporary) death of CFWs, userland homebrew is going to become much more relevant and honestly i'm excited.


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## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

Wolfvak said:


> Are you serious? Of course, you're only thinking about CFW / Piracy.
> You obviously have no idea of how much userland homebrew has been created. And not only emulators or small utilities, but at least two full games have been ported over.



now you're making up things. I have never said im only interested in piracy. I'm just predicting that Nintendo has finally stopped us and that 10.7 will be remembered as the last down-gradable FW


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> now you're making up things. I have never said im only interested in piracy. I'm just predicting that Nintendo has finally stopped us and that 10.7 will be remembered as the last down-gradable FW


Will it though?

Also 11.0 still has homebrew, albeit only userland (still a ton of cool stuff though).


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## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Especially given the (albeit most likely temporary) death of CFWs, userland homebrew is going to become much more relevant and honestly i'm excited.



well I can get excited about that. let's hope*


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## Wolfvak (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> now you're making up things. I have never said im only interested in piracy. I'm just predicting that Nintendo has finally stopped us and that 10.7 will be remembered as the last down-gradable FW


And your source is...? Besides, not having a CFW is not the end of the world. Plenty of people have "survived" having only userland access, including me.


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## Olida (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Will it though?
> 
> Also 11.0 still has homebrew, albeit only userland (still a ton of cool stuff though).



IF i end up being wrong i'll eat my own hat :3


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## Ricken (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> well I can get excited about that. let's hope*


But... Thats all we had in the 4.X era for those that updated...
and between 9.(5?) and 10.3...
Even if it's just userland, we can still keep making more stuff


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## dubbz82 (Jun 9, 2016)

We have NUMEROUS entry points to 11.x  Your belief of the scene being dead is misguided.  Downgrading MIGHT be dead (at least for the short term, if someone works out how to break process9 correctly, this will be a non-issue), however the scene itself is FAR from it.  The scene has hit numerous brick walls where everyone cried wolf and said the sky was falling.  This happens to be simply one more of those times.  We now have more of the system's internals documented than we ever had before, so the possibility of someone finding some useful information for cracking 11.x wide open is actually rather good.


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## OctopusRift (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> I think it's safe to say nobody will be able to downgrade from 11.o without a hardmod. We had a good run guys. Peace be with you.





astrangeone said:


> I've been meaning to learn how to do micro-soldering work, but don't have to time to learn this, and the funds to acquire the stuff I need to wire everything up...
> 
> Plus, there's always a way to fix the software side to do so?  (Maybe faking the hardcoded titles somehow?)


Well. There are a shit ton of undocumented arm11 kern exploits. But. The issue that rests is the downgrade checks. but. They can be bypassed with a bit of thought


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## Halvorsen (Jun 9, 2016)

But... what would be the point of downgrading if arm9+arm11 access basically means CFW on 11.x OFW?


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## tony_2018 (Jun 9, 2016)

This stupid....no patience.  Yeah its dead alright.  Let it die.


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## hobbledehoy899 (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> The future is bleak


The 3DS made you realize this???


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## dark_samus3 (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Well, there's already a few private arm11 kernel exploits on 11.0, but they can't be used for downgrading



Or can they  (spoiler, they can)


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## MelonGx (Jun 9, 2016)

Shit post and nonsense replies.
11.0 hardmod ONLY FAILS BY USER'S MISTAKE.


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## Faolan (Jun 9, 2016)

I feel the scene is at it's biggest right now. so many new exploits/homebrew/cfw this past year it's hard to say its going to die soon. Look back to 4.x, 9.2,and then 10.6 with downgrading. I doubt it'll die soon.


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

dark_samus3 said:


> Or can they  (spoiler, they can)


Oh? I was under the impression that even with AMPXI we couldn't downgrade (at least according to recent 3dbrew changes).


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## dark_samus3 (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Oh? I was under the impression that even with AMPXI we couldn't downgrade (at least according to recent 3dbrew changes).


Essentially, ninty does a full install of a CIA that's on the list but doesn't "finalize" it, so we install then call the unchecked other function and we're good afaik


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

dark_samus3 said:


> Essentially, ninty does a full install of a CIA that's on the list but doesn't "finalize" it, so we install then call the unchecked other function and we're good afaik


I remember discussion about that, but then this happened: https://www.3dbrew.org/w/index.php?title=11.0.0-33&curid=2761&diff=17474&oldid=17420


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## dark_samus3 (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> I remember discussion about that, but then this happened: https://www.3dbrew.org/w/index.php?title=11.0.0-33&curid=2761&diff=17474&oldid=17420


Huh, I'll have to do some more research then


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## Captain_N (Jun 9, 2016)

Hang on ima pop in my chronosphere and check out the state of 3ds in 2020.....
SFX HERE..

OK its still hacked and games are fully playable on your air display devices as the onboard hardware can replicate it (oh um i dont think you will know those yet..)

Point is nintendo cant stop all hacks. there will be hackes will into the future. So either get a flash cart hackable 3ds, or gee i dont know buy the damn game. I bet your cell phone bill can buy 2 new 3ds games/month


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## Elveman (Jun 9, 2016)

Future updates of Home Menu, MSET etc. will check for the new (11.0 a.k.a 2.5*1*) version of NATIVE_FIRM and will require it to run. Although there's a blacklist of system titles' versions hardcoded in 11.0, nobody said that there aren't any arm9 exploits. There's a chance that eventually we'll find something. Unfortunately we can't predict when it's going to happen. So... don't lose hope


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## Viri (Jun 9, 2016)

3DS scene is da bes and very much alive! 

You want a dead scene? Just go look at the Vita scene, lol.


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## zoogie (Jun 9, 2016)

Faolan said:


> I feel the scene is at it's biggest right now. so many new exploits/homebrew/cfw this past year it's hard to say its going to die soon. Look back to 4.x, 9.2,and then 10.6 with downgrading. I doubt it'll die soon.


Exactly. Downgradable systems will be on shelves for several more months to come.

And all hope for software downgrades on 11.0 is still not lost either. _Cough cough dsiware_.


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## Queno138 (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> I think it's safe to say nobody will be able to downgrade from 11.o without a hardmod. We had a good run guys. Peace be with you.



so your logic is that
if people cannot downgrade from 11.0 _without a hard mod_, its a dead scene?

You're forgetting:
1. a great bunch of people already have CFW or Homebrew (this is your scene)
2. we have developers who will continue to develop on existing material (which fuels the scene)
3. we have developers who are also hardmodders or have hardmodded unit, which are looking into alternative ways to downgrade (which also fuels the scene)
4. Most 3DS out there aren't even on 11.0, and can be downgraded


Since you didn't decide to be a dirty pirate earlier or homebrew person or couldn't be bothered to find an exploitable 3DS or swap yours out.
The scene isn't dead, and it seems like your 3DS is dead to you.

That's that.

Now, throw this thread to Edge of Forum please.


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## Elveman (Jun 9, 2016)

zoogie said:


> Exactly. Downgradable systems will be on shelves for several more months to come.
> 
> And all hope for software downgrades on 11.0 is still not lost either. _Cough cough dsiware_.


DSiWare? Where can I read more about it? Is it on the "System flaws" page on 3dbrew?


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## zoogie (Jun 9, 2016)

Elveman said:


> DSiWare? Where can I read more about it? Is it on the "System flaws" page on 3dbrew?


Basically, a hacked dsiware game has access to the entire raw 3ds nand for some reason, not just the twl partition.
With this access, you can perform the known-plaintext firm downgrade described here.

The ability to read/write nand from twl homebrew is already in POC form with fwtool by wintermute.


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## Elveman (Jun 9, 2016)

zoogie said:


> Basically, a hacked dsiware game has access to the entire raw 3ds nand for some reason, not just the twl partition.
> With this access, you can perform the known-plaintext firm downgrade described here.
> 
> The ability to read/write nand from twl homebrew is already in POC form with fwtool by wintermute.


Wow, that sounds quite promising, thanks!


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## A_Random_Guy (Jun 9, 2016)

zoogie said:


> Basically, a hacked dsiware game has access to the entire raw 3ds nand for some reason, not just the twl partition.
> With this access, you can perform the known-plaintext firm downgrade described here.
> 
> The ability to read/write nand from twl homebrew is already in POC form with fwtool by wintermute.



Do you have any links to the fwtool? Gonna check that out


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## zoogie (Jun 9, 2016)

A_Random_Guy said:


> Do you have any links to the fwtool? Gonna check that out


There isn't really any easy way to get a hacked dsiware game on an 11.0 3ds right now. Just a system transfer with a different emunand-able system. We need a dsiwarehaxx primary.


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## Deleted-19228 (Jun 9, 2016)

Obvious troll account is obvious. No clue why mods haven't locked thread.


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## satelman (Jun 9, 2016)

VinsCool said:


> That's what everyone said after the 4.x era.
> 
> Gues what? 9.2 happened.



So true.


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## wormdood (Jun 9, 2016)

zoogie said:


> There isn't really any easy way to get a hacked dsiware game on an 11.0 3ds right now. Just a system transfer with a different emunand-able system. We need a dsiwarehaxx primary.


would they not simply pull said title in less than 3 hrs like they did with freakyform . . . i love the idea but fail to see potential in something like this . . . maybe im just dense?


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## zoogie (Jun 9, 2016)

wormdood said:


> would they not simply pull said title in less than 3 hrs like they did with freakyform . . . i love the idea but fail to see potential in something like this . . . maybe im just dense?


Yeah, that's basically what would happen. There's also the possibility of a major native_firm version update which would block the known-plaintext attack permanently.


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## xdarkmario (Jun 9, 2016)

died or completed?
theres not much left to do, we have compromised about 98% of the 3ds's system, the final steps are unlocking bootrom and signing homebrew with keys, just like the wii.
now were just trying to maintain future proofing


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## Kibido (Jun 9, 2016)

Anybody care to quickly explain what Nintendo did with 11.0 that hypothetically "killed" the hacking scene?


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## A_Random_Guy (Jun 9, 2016)

Kibido said:


> Anybody care to quickly explain what Nintendo did with 11.0 that hypothetically "killed" the hacking scene?



Remove the abillity to downgrade and makes it even harder


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## dimmidice (Jun 9, 2016)

jeez, Olida you're a fool.


Kibido said:


> Anybody care to quickly explain what Nintendo did with 11.0 that hypothetically "killed" the hacking scene?


i have no idea myself. OP seems a bit delusional. sure 11.0 doesn't have a downgradeable exploit. but that could change in the future.


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## Greymane (Jun 9, 2016)

Changed/Added some lines of code, that check if parts of the firmware are on or above the version number. And disallow lower ones to be installed (software side), though you can still downgrade with hardmods. If i remember correctly atleast.


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## GilgameshArcher (Jun 9, 2016)

http://plutooo.github.io/freakyhax/


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## koyuki38 (Jun 9, 2016)

"don't update past 4.X"
"don't update past 9.X"
"don't update past 10.3"
"don't update past 10.7"

brace yourself, "don't update past 11.0" is comming



GilgameshArcher said:


> http://plutooo.github.io/freakyhax/


I think this allows to launch HB launcher on 11.0, but i guess not all homebrew would work, and CFW won't launch


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

zoogie said:


> Yeah, that's basically what would happen. There's also the possibility of a major native_firm version update which would block the known-plaintext attack permanently.


It's worth noting only a minor_firm update would be required (happened in 11.0), the only reason that we can still use old firmwares is because they didn't update home menu/errdsip to check for the new version.


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## AmandaRose (Jun 9, 2016)

Captain_N said:


> I bet your cell phone bill can buy 2 new 3ds games/month


I don't know how much 3ds games or mobile/cell phones are in your country but here in Scotland I pay 30 pound a month for my phone with unlimited calls/text/Internet and new 3ds games cost 35 to 45 pounds. Even most second hand games are 20 to 25 pounds so as you can see for some people depending in which country they are in they can't buy 2 new games for the price of thier phone bill as you claim


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## Deleted-379826 (Jun 9, 2016)

11


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## froggestspirit (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> It's worth noting only a minor_firm update would be required (happened in 11.0), the only reason that we can still use old firmwares is because they didn't update home menu/errdsip to check for the new version.


Stuff like this makes me wonder what Nintendo is actually doing. How can we know so much more about how to patch the things (and the fact we make it publicly available), and Nintendo takes a month+ to patch it, but not even fully.

...Unless they're underhanding it to be kind to us?


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## Bedel (Jun 9, 2016)

Olida said:


> it'll never happen, and even if it did it wouldnt be made public. OH WOE B ME


It is a exploit on 11.0. Smealum said it, so... We only need someone to do it.


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## GothicIII (Jun 9, 2016)

Marko76 said:


> I don't know how much 3ds games or mobile/cell phones are in your country but here in Scotland I pay 30 pound a month for my phone with unlimited calls/text/Internet and new 3ds games cost 35 to 45 pounds. Even most second hand games are 20 to 25 pounds so as you can see for some people depending in which country they are in they can't buy 2 new games for the price of their phone bill as you claim



It depends on your contract. In Germany when you "lease" a new AAA phone and have unlimited sms/phone (unlimited highspeed internet doesn't exist here on mobile) the bill goes easily up to 90€/month without special discounts. With this you can definitely buy 2 full price games for 3DS.
Of course with the new price cuts going on (at least in my country) you can have everything for ~20€ but without a new phone.


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## FrozenDragon150 (Jun 9, 2016)

This thread is completely useless >.>

The 3DS scene is still very active and certainly won't die just because we can't downgrade on the latest FW anymore, it's happened before.

You updated? Well, *boo-fucking-hoo.* No one else will stop because of that.


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## BORTZ (Jun 9, 2016)

Moved to appropriate place


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## Queno138 (Jun 9, 2016)

Bortz said:


> Moved to appropriate place



thank you for our generous god


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## VinsCool (Jun 9, 2016)

Bortz said:


> Moved to appropriate place


I love you Bortzy


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## Lucar (Jun 9, 2016)

dark_samus3 said:


> Or can they  (spoiler, they can)



Nope, they can't. Process9 runs checks when the title finishes installing. So, to bypass those checks, we have to get Arm9 access.


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## astronautlevel (Jun 9, 2016)

Lucar said:


> Nope, they can't. Process9 runs checks when the title finishes installing. So, to bypass those checks, we have to get Arm9 access.


Nah, @dark_samus3 was correct in that we originally believed the downgrade checks to be borked, but it ended up that they were actually properly enforced.


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## Lucar (Jun 9, 2016)

astronautlevel said:


> Nah, @dark_samus3 was correct in that we originally believed the downgrade checks to be borked, but it ended up that they were actually properly enforced.



I just said that. Process9 enforces the checks properly. Do you mean dark_samus3 is saying the checks ARE bad?


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## dark_samus3 (Jun 9, 2016)

Lucar said:


> I just said that. Process9 enforces the checks properly. Do you mean dark_samus3 is saying the checks ARE bad?


No, we believed them to be bad (there were 2 functions that didn't include the checks which had the same purpose as the 2 functions that did include the checks) however, it's probably not possible to call these functions with just arm11 kernel access and therefore it's fixed


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## GhostLatte (Jun 9, 2016)

You must have a crystal ball


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## keyra (Jun 13, 2016)

i love those thread title


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## richardparker (Jun 13, 2016)

c'mon the 3ds hacking scene is not going down easily. These sort of things have happened before.


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## DragarX (Sep 17, 2016)

Marko76 said:


> I don't know how much 3ds games or mobile/cell phones are in your country but here in Scotland I pay 30 pound a month for my phone with unlimited calls/text/Internet and new 3ds games cost 35 to 45 pounds. Even most second hand games are 20 to 25 pounds so as you can see for some people depending in which country they are in they can't buy 2 new games for the price of thier phone bill as you claim


3DS games are damn expensive in Australia too. First party nintendo titles are still $70-$80 AUD regardless of release date and most Second hand games are $30-$70 AUD.


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## Swiftloke (Sep 18, 2016)

Olida said:


> IF i end up being wrong i'll eat my own hat :3


Eat it.


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## jamespoo (Jan 8, 2017)

new hack for the 3ds


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## Subtle Demise (Jan 8, 2017)

Joom said:


>



Yeah the scene is dead, razor sucks now, only CPY can crack Denuvo


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## Kingy (Jan 8, 2017)

Hello from the future, we have so much to say about this :^)


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