# Nintendo is actually worth more than all of Sony.



## Bryon15 (Jan 8, 2014)

http://i.imgur.com/kynB09W.png

Not just the Sony Gaming Division. All of Sony. I'm actually surprised by this. The only gaming company bigger than Nintendo is Microsoft. 

Kind of shows how silly those people calling for Nintendo to go third party really are right? I'm guessing not.

In related news, Nintendo shares surge as China eases gaming console ban.

http://news.yahoo.com/nintendo-shar...uN2xhBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDMwNF8x

https://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:7974&ei=yqbMUpjmBZPKsQeJ6AE


----------



## Reploid (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm not surprised. They make a fortune wih pokemons only. But they don't really know how to use that money nowdays. All the same mariozelda stuff over and over. But its a good thing when they're sponsoring 3rd party developers, like Mystwalker or Platinum.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

> _"Market capitalization (or market cap) is the total value *of the issued shares of a publicly traded company*; it is *equal to the share price times the number of shares outstanding*. As outstanding stock is bought and sold in public markets, capitalization could be used *as a proxy* for the public opinion of a company's net worth and *is a determining factor in some forms of stock valuation*."_
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization


MKT Cap is not the total value of Sony Corp. as a corporation, it's the value of the stock they released on the stockmarket. In other words, this value is not accounting for any company-owned properties - just the cumulative price of stock.

Sony has about *160.34 billion dollars* of such assets in comparison to Nintendo's *15.9 billion*. Additionally, Sony has 19 billion dollars cash on-hand while Nintendo only has 11. For all intents and purposes, Sony has enough money on-hand to buy the entirety of Nintendo's released stock and still have money for a lunchbox.

Value-wise, as a whole, Forbes ranks Sony Corp at the 547th place while Nintendo's on the 684th place out of Top 2000 and I'd treat those results as more accurate than a random chart from imgur. 

Additionally, reported for being in the totally wrong section... Wii U Games & Content? Really? I actually don't know where this should be put, if anywhere - I guess the staff will decide.


----------



## ResleyZ (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm actually surprised by this. I could figure that nintendo might be more worth than Sony's gaming division, but ALL of Sony? That really surprised me. Makes sense Microsoft is more worth than Nintendo, but that isn't thanks to their gaming division, but mainly Windows. After all, hardware sales aren't everything.

I'd rather see what only their gaming divisions are worth before making any real conclusions.


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 8, 2014)

Dont worry guys, this thread wasnt created to distract people that wiiu is selling like shit everywhere


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

Joe88 said:


> Dont worry guys, this thread wasnt created to distract people that wiiu is selling like shit everywhere


Fortunately Nintendo has lots of dollars from 3DS sales to wipe their tears dry when they cry through the night looking at Wii U's prospects for the future.


----------



## emigre (Jan 8, 2014)

I so hope the next gen console war focuses on the stock exchange rather than the consoles or gaems sold.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

emigre said:


> I so hope the next gen console war focuses on the stock exchange rather than the consoles or gaems sold.


The amount of money a few Japanese dudes _(and dudettes)_ make per year is very important for my gaming experience.


----------



## Gahars (Jan 8, 2014)

Joe88 said:


> Dont worry guys, this thread wasnt created to distract people that wiiu is selling like shit everywhere


 







Don't forget the cries of "The PS Vita is selling badly, too!" as if that makes any difference on the Wii U's predicament.


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jan 8, 2014)

yeah who gives a fuck. whoever makes better games that's who i give a fuck about!


----------



## FAST6191 (Jan 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The amount of money a few Japanese dudes _(and dudettes)_ make per year is very important as for my gaming experience.



The financial state of the Japanese dudebros is my primary concern.


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 8, 2014)

This thread 

"I saw a chart on Imgur! Therefore it must be true!"


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> MKT Cap is not the total value of Sony Corp. as a corporation, it's the value of the stock they released on the stockmarket. In other words, this value is not accounting for any company-owned properties - just the cumulative price of stock.
> 
> Sony has about *160.34 billion dollars* of such assets in comparison to Nintendo's *15.9 billion*. Additionally, Sony has 19 billion dollars cash on-hand while Nintendo only has 11. For all intents and purposes, Sony has enough money on-hand to buy the entirety of Nintendo's released stock and still have money for a lunchbox.
> 
> ...


Replying to that so that people can see.

Basically, nothing to see here folks.


----------



## Frederica Bernkastel (Jan 8, 2014)

Sony really doesn't help themselves, as nice as their hardware might be. Of all the advertising I've seen, theirs is amongst the worst but that is another story for another time.
With regards to the WiiU's poor sales, well that was to be expected; the Wii is still being sold to fill the cheapo casual niche, and for what seems to be the majority it is perfectly sufficient.
Anyway here, apparently there's a 78% chance Sony'll be bankrupt by 2016. Who knew.

*EDIT:* Oops! Seems it has declined back to a 44% chance in the past six days in which it has been sitting in a tab. Nothing to see here indeed.
Original Source: http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/


----------



## Tom Bombadildo (Jan 8, 2014)

Fredrica Bernkastel said:


> Sony really doesn't help themselves, as nice as their hardware might be. Of all the advertising I've seen, theirs is amongst the worst but that is another story for another time.
> With regards to the WiiU's poor sales, well that was to be expected; the Wii is still being sold to fill the cheapo casual niche, and for what seems to be the majority it is perfectly sufficient.
> Anyway here, apparently there's a 78% chance Sony'll be bankrupt by 2016. Who knew.


 
http://gbatemp.net/threads/macroaxi...of-going-bankrupt-in-the-next-2-years.360100/

or, more specifically, Foxi's post. 


Nice try though.


----------



## Frederica Bernkastel (Jan 8, 2014)

Tom Bombadildo said:


> http://gbatemp.net/threads/macroaxi...of-going-bankrupt-in-the-next-2-years.360100/
> 
> or, more specifically, Foxi's post.
> 
> ...


Already edited out, although this is a silly debate.


----------



## calmwaters (Jan 8, 2014)

Well, you know, they probably are. I have two Sony VHS players and one DVD player. People still do buy those. This title is misleading, though, which makes this an effectively stupid thread.


----------



## gamefan5 (Jan 8, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> Well, you know, they probably are. I have two Sony VHS players and one DVD player. People still do buy those. This title is misleading, though, which makes this an effectively stupid thread.


 
And you should see the NeoGAF counterpart. -_-'


----------



## the_randomizer (Jan 8, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> And you should see the NeoGAF counterpart. -_-'


 

Neogaf...lol, 4Chan's twin


----------



## Dork (Jan 8, 2014)

>misleading title
Man you're just asking for people to start shitposting about Wii U.


----------



## trumpet-205 (Jan 8, 2014)

You don't use stock value to determine company's financial value. Sony worth a lot more than Nintendo. Should they ever need cash they can liquidate some of their departments.

Can't a mod just close this thread?


----------



## Social_Outlaw (Jan 8, 2014)

Gaming wise I don't believe it, you would think proabably it worth more due to wii and 3ds, and mainly mario, but mario is what nintendo only has, while sony has a library of exclusives  if you think about it, you do the math.


----------



## Nah3DS (Jan 8, 2014)

This can't be true  ... Sony sold a lot of Walkmans over the years!!!


----------



## Veho (Jan 8, 2014)

Sure, their stocks are valuable, but it's not money they can get their hands on. It means something to the shareholders, but not the company itself. Unfortunately the value of a company is not measured in hopes and dreams, it's measured in assets.  



Foxi4 said:


> Fortunately Nintendo has lots of dollars from 3DS sales to wipe their tears dry when they cry through the night looking at Wii U's prospects for the future.


----------



## Qtis (Jan 8, 2014)

Just to point out here something about stock value: When Nokia was valued at ~$1.6 per share, the company was worth roughly $7 billion (give or take, this is a rough estimate). The company's patent portfolio alone was worth $10 billion at the time. Thus just buying all the shares for the sake of the patent portfolio would have been profitable.

So no. Shares determine market value based on stock, but don't determine actual value of a company.

ps. Microsoft is a bad comparison in many ways since its gaming division (Xbox) is more of a hobby is you compare the income or profits of different divisions inside MS.


----------



## SickPuppy (Jan 8, 2014)

Joe88 said:


> Dont worry guys, this thread wasnt created to distract people that wiiu is selling like shit everywhere



But that's how the big "N" likes to start out a new console, have it sell like shit. Look at the 3DS, shit games and shit sales at release, now look at it selling like hotcakes.


----------



## GameWinner (Jan 8, 2014)

SickPuppy said:


> But that's how the big "N" likes to start out a new console, have it sell like shit. Look at the 3DS, shit games and shit sales at release, now look at it selling like hotcakes.


Where was this strategy when it came to both the DS and Wii?


----------



## SickPuppy (Jan 8, 2014)

The Wii was a fluke, everybody can agree with that.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> >misleading title
> Man you're just asking for people to start shitposting about Wii U.


If you're refering to the contents of the first page of this thread, this was literally in _"Wii U - Games & Content"_ and was later moved to _"General Gaming Discussion"_, hence the couple Wii U giggles.

Back to the subject matter though, Sony's a global supplier of television sets, smartphones, cameras, camcorders, media players of all sorts, miscelaneous audio and video equipment, video games, consoles, electronic components, they deal with life insurance, digital distribution of music and video... _they own a freaking bank_. Nintendo sells games and consoles. I think the debate on which one is bigger or worth more is pretty pointless.

Why is Nintendo's stock collectively worth more? Because they're doing better buisness-wise - this I'm willing to admit. After the uber-successful DS and Wii era, Nintendo climbed up to the top and the 3DS keeps them soaring despite the Wii U's... questionable performance. They're considered a _safe investment_ and people's interest in Nintendo products stays pretty high, that's why the stock is valued.

Sony is much less lucky in this regard - all it takes is _one_ departments failing and the stock price of their _whole corporation_ goes down... and as of late, quite a few of their branches had problems. Their stock is higher risk because its value depends on whether or not the whole corporate machine is well-oiled, with each department consistently doing well, however with megacorporations like this, it's something you rarely get to see. In times of economical crisis, profits from some branches cover the losses in others until the situation on the market normalizes, and it always does.


Fredrica Bernkastel said:


> *EDIT:* Oops! Seems it has declined back to a 44% chance in the past six days in which it has been sitting in a tab. Nothing to see here indeed.
> Original Source: http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/


Oh dear, someone fed the bot the data from 2013's last quarter...  Like I said, this is the stockmarket, the situation can do a complete 180 overnight.


----------



## tbgtbg (Jan 8, 2014)

Fredrica Bernkastel said:


> Sony really doesn't help themselves, as nice as their hardware might be. Of all the advertising I've seen, theirs is amongst the worst but that is another story for another time.



What, two men singing showtunes at each other isn't a good way to sell hardware?


----------



## Dork (Jan 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Back to the subject matter though, Sony's a global supplier of television sets, smartphones, cameras, camcorders, media players of all sorts, miscelaneous audio and video equipment, video games, consoles, electronic components, they deal with life insurance, digital distribution of music and video... _they own a freaking bank_. Nintendo sells games and consoles. I think the debate on which one is bigger or worth more is pretty pointless.


 
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there. I know Sony is a corporate giant with many different divisions. For me, I usually specify if I'm talking exclusively about Sony's gaming division, because that's what most people imply they're talking about in these kinds of threads.


----------



## Snailface (Jan 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> MKT Cap is not the total value of Sony Corp. as a corporation, it's the value of the stock they released on the stockmarket. In other words, this value is not accounting for any company-owned properties - just the cumulative price of stock.
> 
> Sony has about *160.34 billion dollars* of such assets in comparison to Nintendo's *15.9 billion*. Additionally, Sony has 19 billion dollars cash on-hand while Nintendo only has 11. For all intents and purposes, Sony has enough money on-hand to buy the entirety of Nintendo's released stock and still have money for a lunchbox.
> 
> ...


Net worth is assets - liabilities.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE Balance Sheet&annual



Spoiler: Oh and one more thing...



;-;


----------



## CrimzonEyed (Jan 8, 2014)

You think they would be able to use that money for some new IP :/


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

Dark S. said:


> Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there. I know Sony is a corporate giant with many different divisions. For me, I usually specify if I'm talking exclusively about Sony's gaming division, because that's what most people imply they're talking about in these kinds of threads.


The OP simply mistook _"Mkt Cap."_ in the original chart as the total value of the corporation wheras it's just the stock value _(and as we all know, Sony's stock reached junk level a couple months back, so this low price is no surprise)_, I'm just trying to explain what it actually means.  Fortunately, after their latest presentations and PS4's successful launch, Sony's stock started climbing back up - here's for hoping it doesn't stop.


----------



## mkdms14 (Jan 8, 2014)

Ummm I don't believe it.  A Japanese based video game company is worth more than a Worldwide enterprise company that has its hands in just about everything?  I don't think so.  I think the chart is misleading.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

Snailface said:


> Net worth is assets - liabilities.
> http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE Balance Sheet&annual





> "_In stocks and businesses, an expression of the underlying value of the company. That is, it is a statement of the value of the company's total assets minus the value of its total liabilities *and the value of its intangible assets such as patents and goodwill*. One way of thinking about the net tangible asset is that it is the underlying value of a company, not the value dictated by the supply and demand of shares or its market capitalization."
> _
> http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Net Tangible Assets


Soo... it's the value of a corporation as a legal construct, disregarding what the company actually owns, not just the liabilities. 

That being said, I wish this balance could be juxtoposed with one for Nintendo, but Yahoo! has no balance sheet for them, so we'll leave that one hanging.


----------



## calmwaters (Jan 8, 2014)

6SoulTriox said:


> Gaming wise I don't believe it, you would think proabably it worth more due to wii and 3ds, and mainly mario, but mario is what nintendo only has, while sony has a library of exclusives if you think about it, you do the math.


 
Nintendo has a library of exclusives  It's a shame they only capitalize on one of them


----------



## Snailface (Jan 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I wish this could be juxtaposed with a similar chart for Nintendo, but unfortunately Yahoo! has no balance data for them, so we'll leave that one hangin'.


The tears keep coming.
http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Financials?s=7974:TYO&subview=BalanceSheet


----------



## Luigi2012SM64DS (Jan 8, 2014)

Screw you philips. I want my Nintendo Playstation!


----------



## Clydefrosch (Jan 8, 2014)

is sony still making yearly losses of ~5 billion$ due to strong yen and sucky tv division?


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

Snailface said:


> The tears keep coming.


Whose? According to your proposed Total Assets - Total Liabilities formula, Sony's ahead. 

*EDIT: *Actually, scratch that. I just realized that the two websites you posted show their data in completely different units. Yahoo! posted the results in _thousands of USD_, Markets.ft in _millions of Yen_. If you feel like doing a little bit of maths for us, go on ahead - I can't be arsed. 

*EDIT2:* Curiosity got the better of me and I played your game... 

_(in millions of Yen, TA stands for Total Assets, TL stands for Total Liabilities, data as of March 31 2013)_
*Nintendo:* 1 447 878 _(TA)_ - 220 489 _(TL)_ = 1 227 389
*SONY:* 14 206 292 _(TA)_ - 12 008 526 _(TL)_ = 2 197 766

Snailface for Master Trole 2014 because he made me do maths.


----------



## Snailface (Jan 8, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Whose? According to your proposed Total Assets - Total Liabilities formula, Sony's ahead.
> 
> *EDIT: *Actually, scratch that. I just realized that the two websites you posted show their data in completely different units. Yahoo! posted the results in _thousands of USD_, Markets.ft in _millions of Yen_. If you feel like doing a little bit of maths for us, go on ahead - I can't be arsed.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the yen thing tripped me up, I wrongly assumed it was in dollars. But at least you now know Sony isn't worth more than 10 times Ninty (not even twice as much!). So we both came out a little ahead in this game for our home teams. 
I call a truce ... until our next fanboy battle. hehe


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 8, 2014)

Snailface said:


> Yeah, the yen thing tripped me up, I wrongly assumed it was in dollars. But at least you now know Sony isn't worth more than 10 times Ninty (not even twice as much!). So we both came out a little ahead in this game for our home teams.
> I call a truce ... until our next fanboy battle. hehe


I was merely speaking from the _"grandeur of the corporation as a whole"_ point of view, but yes, until next time.


----------



## Social_Outlaw (Jan 8, 2014)

calmwaters said:


> Nintendo has a library of exclusives  It's a shame they only capitalize on one of them


Srry I know nintendo has exclusives, but  I only mention one which is mario, because they only focus on that main one, so I have no reason to even acknowledge the other exclusive since nintendo heavily pay attention to mario instead of others such as wonderful 101, why not heavily pay attention to that like they do for mario?.


----------



## MelodieOctavia (Jan 8, 2014)

Want to know what I think is funny? For years I have seen you all hem and haw about who's making the most money, what company is worth more, who's selling the most consoles, who "won" at Arbitrary Kiss Our Shareholder's Ass Show 20XX, etc...

You have all convinced yourselves that you actually give a shit about any of those details. Are you a shareholder? Do you work for any one of these companies? Are you a third party game developer? No? Then why would you even give the vapor of a fresh rat turd who's "winning" this or last gen? Yes, I understand you have a preference toward a certain company, but do you really feel a sense of accomplishment by going "Neener neener my favorite company is doing better!"?

You're consumers, nothing more, and I guarantee that none of these companies you're gushing all over care even a fraction as much about you as you do about them. Yes, they will listen to their consumer base just as long as it gains them money. That's the important part. Past that, all they care is that you buy their shit. Period. End stop. I love Sony, but only because I like their consoles over the others, and I like the games better than I could get on other consoles. And I think PS+ is the bees knees. That's about as far as my relationship with Sony goes. They sold 4.6 million PS4s so far. That's impressive, but other than a pair of raised eyebrows, there really won't be any other sort of reaction from me in that respect. Because for the most part I don't give a shit. I have no reason to.

So, please please please stop with these endless threads about numbers and who's bigger than who and who sold the most whatsits over company B's thingamajigs. It's not entertaining past the point of watching you all snark and sneer over eachother's posts. And that lost it's entertainment value long ago.


----------



## Foxi4 (Jan 9, 2014)

TwinRetro said:


> *[ ]* Told
> *[ ]* Epic Told
> *[X]* Star Wars: The Told Republic


I'm glad that we agree in this regard, I usually only participate in these kinds of threads when the proposed thesis is downright wrong _(as it was here)_ and I too think that we should focus on what's important for us as gamers rather than stock value or sold units.

As mentioned earlier, at the end of the day, the fact that one Japanese dude or dudette made more or less money than another Japanese dude or dudette will not keep me entertained while I'm commuting, so what does it matter in the grand scheme of things in my life?  Debates like this are the reason why _"chart threads"_ and _"sales threads"_ were practically banned in the USN - it's pointless debacle.


----------



## Gahars (Jan 9, 2014)

TwinRetro said:


> It's not entertaining past the point of watching you all snark and sneer over eachother's posts. And that lost it's entertainment value long ago.


 

It's a stock snarket crash, and I'm broke.


----------



## zecoxao (Jan 30, 2014)

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/n31/1265118_10201129949364271_77091036_o.jpg (pic's too big if i add it with the pic insertion method)


----------



## Qtis (Jan 30, 2014)

zecoxao said:


> https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/n31/1265118_10201129949364271_77091036_o.jpg (pic's too big if i add it with the pic insertion method)


 
Seriously. Did you just miss basically the whole thread so far? :o


----------



## zecoxao (Jan 31, 2014)

Qtis said:


> Seriously. Did you just miss basically the whole thread so far? :o


 
nah, i didn't. Nintendo has it's shares worth more, but the total of money they have is less than Sony


----------



## Joe88 (Jan 31, 2014)

zecoxao said:


> nah, i didn't. Nintendo has it's shares worth more, but the total of money they have is less than Sony


it doesnt mean anything because now sne is worth more
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SNE
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NTDOY


----------

