# This is why it's hard to get a PS5..



## subcon959 (Nov 25, 2020)

A UK based scalper group claims it managed to snag 3500 PS5 consoles to re-sell to customers..

https://www.businessinsider.com/pla...pe-flooded-by-reseller-bots-2020-11?r=US&IR=T

Isn't it about time that someone figured out how to protect retail sites from bots? Surely it can't be that hard? Is it that there is no incentive for them as a sale is a sale, or is it a technical problem?


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## Rj.MoG (Nov 25, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> A UK based scalper group claims it managed to snag 3500 PS5 consoles to re-sell to customers..
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/pla...pe-flooded-by-reseller-bots-2020-11?r=US&IR=T
> 
> Isn't it about time that someone figured out how to protect retail sites from bots? Surely it can't be that hard? Is it that there is no incentive for them as a sale is a sale, or is it a technical problem?


Money is money baby. It's the same reason companies like Apple, Best Buy and Google don't have safeguards against scammers using gift cards.


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## guisadop (Nov 25, 2020)

the real idiots are the ones paying a premium for flipped consoles. that's why scalpers get to do that lol


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## subcon959 (Nov 25, 2020)

Rj.MoG said:


> Money is money baby. It's the same reason companies like Apple, Best Buy and Google don't have safeguards against scammers using gift cards.


I get that part, I just feel that good will is worth something that money can't buy. People would probably like to support a retailer that was openly against bots and scalpers.


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## SG854 (Nov 25, 2020)

This is pure evil of the highest order. We just want to game & have fun. And they ruins it. Give us our consoles!


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## morvoran (Nov 25, 2020)

guisadop said:


> the real idiots are the ones paying a premium for flipped consoles. that's why scalpers get to do that lol


This here.

If people hate scalpers, then stop giving them business.  If scalping was a losing venture, then they would stop doing it (or at least slow down).  It's just like people that complain about corporations getting too big on twitter using their iphone, while wearing Nike shoes, waiting in line at Wal-Mart.


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## Veho (Nov 25, 2020)

It is very hard to automatically detect whether an order is legitimate or a bot, especially when there are thousands of requests per minute, both legitimate and bots. You could implement a series of captchas every step of the ordering process but that's not very consumer friendly. And 99.9% of any store's inventory will not have scalpers preying upon it, so it's _a lot_ of work to secure that one item doesn't fall into the wrong hands. And in the end, money is money.


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## Armadillo (Nov 25, 2020)

Retail sites don't want to protect from scalpers. A sale is a sale.

If people want it to stop, stop buying from scalpers. Be no scalping if people didn't pay over rrp because they have to have it right this second.


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## SG854 (Nov 25, 2020)

morvoran said:


> This here.
> 
> If people hate scalpers, then stop giving them business.  If scalping was a losing venture, then they would stop doing it (or at least slow down).  It's just like people that complain about corporations getting too big on twitter using their iphone, while wearing Nike shoes, waiting in line at Wal-Mart.


The same people that complain about corporations are not always the same people that support them. Way to go to generalize just so you can defend an anti consumer practice.

It sucks for the people who don't buy at scalper prices, yet have to deal with scalpers taking away their chance of getting one. It's other people that feeds the existence of scalpers that buy at scalper prices that screw it up for the non stupid person who buys at MSRP.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Veho said:


> It is very hard to automatically detect whether an order is legitimate or a bot, especially when there are thousands of requests per minute, both legitimate and bots. You could implement a series of captchas every step of the ordering process but that's not very consumer friendly. And 99.9% of any store's inventory will not have scalpers preying upon it, so it's _a lot_ of work to secure that one item doesn't fall into the wrong hands. And in the end, money is money.


I prefer micro centers approach. Show up to a store to get one. No online orders allowed. This should get rid of bots. Scalpers will still exist but at least you can solve the bot problem. Too bad the corona virus making showing up to a store not an option for some areas.


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## spotanjo3 (Nov 25, 2020)

No you can't. Money is money. And because they are the scum! Greedy is what they are.

Good thing that I already reserve mine for January 2021 to pick it up in a small private store so no worries.


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## Chary (Nov 25, 2020)

SG854 said:


> I prefer micro centers approach. Show up to a store to get one.


Is this just in general? Because my Microcenter definitely had no PS5s, at least according to whoever I called up there. 

I do think it's a solid way to prevent scalpers, but even without corona, there's a simplicity to online orders. It's so much easier. And yeah, I don't think Microcenters are common outside large cities, which sucks.

As for the people buying PS5s scalped, they clearly have more money than sense. Are they ever really going to stop? It's almost like a JRPG--when you have so much money in the endgame, you buy 99x of any healing item because money doesn't matter. I'm sure it's similar for them. They don't want to bother failing to get one before the bots do, so they just pay 3x the price because they can afford it.


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## SG854 (Nov 25, 2020)

Chary said:


> Is this just in general? Because my Microcenter definitely had no PS5s, at least according to whoever I called up there.
> 
> I do think it's a solid way to prevent scalpers, but even without corona, there's a simplicity to online orders. It's so much easier. And yeah, I don't think Microcenters are common outside large cities, which sucks.
> 
> As for the people buying PS5s scalped, they clearly have more money than sense. Are they ever really going to stop? It's almost like a JRPG--when you have so much money in the endgame, you buy 99x of any healing item because money doesn't matter. I'm sure it's similar for them. They don't want to bother failing to get one before the bots do, so they just pay 3x the price because they can afford it.


Do micro centers carry PS5's? I'm just saying how they handle new releases like their gpu's. Other stores should adopts that style, Like Best Buy or Walmart or whatever.

The convenience of online goes out the window when these consoles are hard to get to begin with. So its not much easier or simpler.

Do no online till stock normalizes after a few months then allow online orders.


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## morvoran (Nov 25, 2020)

SG854 said:


> The same people that complain about corporations are not always the same people that support them. Way to go to generalize just so you can defend an anti consumer practice.


I know right?!?!  Too bad people are only able generalize all people into one category when they try to bring up an argument.  Imagine a world where I was only talking about the corporate supporters that complain about their size while not including those that actually live "off the grid" so to speak....  unfathomable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Maybe you can try pulling your head out of your ass to see that the sun is shining before telling someone the sky is dark.


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## SG854 (Nov 25, 2020)

morvoran said:


> I know right?!?!  Too bad people are only able generalize all people into one category when they try to bring up an argument.  Imagine a world where I was only talking about the corporate supporters that complain about their size while not including those that actually live "off the grid" so to speak....  unfathomable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Maybe you can try pulling your head out of your ass to see that the sun is shining before telling someone the sky is dark.


Then don't used generalized words if you want people to know what you're saying.


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## mrgone (Nov 25, 2020)

SG854 said:


> This is pure evil of the highest order.


Also known as good old capitalism:
Monopolize a scarce resource


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## subcon959 (Nov 25, 2020)

Aren't some forms of scalping illegal already? It seems some people have turned it into a source of income this year with all the big releases. Surely the tax people should be interested in that?


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## FAST6191 (Nov 25, 2020)

As above if it bothers you then don't pay the prices. Something costs what someone else is willing to pay. Getting bent out of shape is more or less just amusing.



subcon959 said:


> Aren't some forms of scalping illegal already? It seems some people have turned it into a source of income this year with all the big releases. Surely the tax people should be interested in that?


More or less emergency and some medical goods in time of emergency in some places (tornado coming in, evacuation for other reasons, in some cases this pandemic lark assuming it was declared an emergency at the time which it often wasn't), don't think the UK has anything though.


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## tech3475 (Nov 25, 2020)

subcon959 said:


> A UK based scalper group claims it managed to snag 3500 PS5 consoles to re-sell to customers..
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/pla...pe-flooded-by-reseller-bots-2020-11?r=US&IR=T
> 
> Isn't it about time that someone figured out how to protect retail sites from bots? Surely it can't be that hard? Is it that there is no incentive for them as a sale is a sale, or is it a technical problem?



In the case of one high street retailer I know of, they just don’t seem to give a ****, bar a basic picture identity to login to the website.

I was speaking with a manager who said there was nothing they could do as corporate didn’t place any restrictions (e.g. 1 console per person), even though they ‘knew’ who were scalpers.

As for incentives, I think they’re forgetting that they’re potentially missing out on games/accessories/product care (the latter being where the real profits are from what I’ve heard).


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## elk1007 (Nov 26, 2020)

tech3475 said:


> In the case of one high street retailer I know of, they just don’t seem to give a ****, bar a basic picture identity to login to the website.
> 
> I was speaking with a manager who said there was nothing they could do as corporate didn’t place any restrictions (e.g. 1 console per person), even though they ‘knew’ who were scalpers.
> 
> As for incentives, I think they’re forgetting that they’re potentially missing out on games/accessories/product care (the latter being where the real profits are from what I’ve heard).



They are totally missing out on sales. 
I doubt scalpers buy a bunch of games and Point of Sale pushed products (stickers, candy, small toys).


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 26, 2020)

scalpers are scum of the earth. but hey go ahead and pay these prices. in one year when there are plenty of ps5 available, has more games, a few patches have been released to fix the bugs (and the launch will have bugs) and the black edition is out I will be paying retail price 

unlike all these idiots buying them now I CAN WAIT


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## MeAndHax (Nov 26, 2020)

One captcha before the order and we wouldn’t have this mess but the retail stores act as if they couldn’t do anything


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## MasterJ360 (Nov 26, 2020)

Im not even blaming the scalpers on this. The idea of having to sell ps5's at launch only to Walmart online was the dumbest idea Sony made. Sure it was to combat covid, but they underestimated the demand for their console to shove it all on 1 retail nationwide.


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## peteruk (Nov 26, 2020)

there is a special place in hell set aside for scalpers


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## elk1007 (Nov 27, 2020)

Am I the only one who thinks scalpers are good businessmen?


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 27, 2020)

morvoran said:


> This here.
> 
> If people hate scalpers, then stop giving them business.  If scalping was a losing venture, then they would stop doing it (or at least slow down).  It's just like people that complain about corporations getting too big on twitter using their iphone, while wearing Nike shoes, waiting in line at Wal-Mart.


Such a stupid take. Truly. I don't give them business, but some desperate shit head definitely will and already has. So many people here on these forums hate scalpers and don't give them business. Has that stopped them? Ha!!


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## godreborn (Nov 27, 2020)

I often wonder if people actually pay these scalping prices.  I've had auctions before where the person backed out last second.  I can't imagine, especially now with so many people out of work, that people just have thousands of dollars lying around.


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## tech3475 (Nov 27, 2020)

godreborn said:


> I often wonder if people actually pay these scalping prices.  I've had auctions before where the person backed out last second.  I can't imagine, especially now with so many people out of work, that people just have thousands of dollars lying around.



I’m actually surprised people haven’t tried something like this for reddit gold. Setting up a bunch of fake accounts to screw around scalpers.


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## godreborn (Nov 27, 2020)

you just have to say that you entered the wrong amount to retract a bid on ebay.  there's actually like four or five options you can select from to retract a bid and there are no consequences or anything.  I saw on ebay a playstation 5 (box only) going for over $800.  that either can't be real, people aren't reading the title and or description, or just people fucking around with scalpers.  that auction was obviously put up just to trick people into thinking they were bidding on a ps5.


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## CMDreamer (Nov 27, 2020)

If the final customers weren't as naive to buy from scalpers, then they wouldn't have that business model.

But people are so consumer addict that most of the time they don't care about paying more money for whatever they want to own, even if its pure crap.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 27, 2020)

I remember a guy who paid $250 for an Xbox 360 box.  He thought he was getting the whole package.  When it arrived, surprise surprise.  The sad thing is that eBay/PayPay couldn't really do anything as the title clearly said Box.  Years ago I sold a broken Garmin Nuvi GPS on eBay.  I swapped out the bezel from another unit and it was a different color than factory.  This was all spelled out in the pictures and description yet he filed a dispute for item not as described.  Needless to say he lost.

When the Wii first came out it was hard to get for many people.  I happened to be a train ride away from the Nintendo Store in New York City.  So my dad an I would take daily trips to buy Wii units to sell to people who couldn't get them.  Bidding started at what I paid for them.  I didn't make much of a profit but I did sell enough Wiis to get mine for free and just about broke even after eBay fees and such.  The one that sold for the most went to guy in Puerto Rico for about $435.  Most of the time they barely went above $300.

Today people want more than double retail cost for these.  There are some that want several $10,000s for one.  Check out the attached picture.

EDIT:  I forgot to mention that as a PS+ member I was invited for first dibs for a PS5 direct from Sony with free launch day shipping.  At the specified time I logged in using the unique link in my invite email.  Waited on the queue for my turn and ordered.  No fuss no muss.  Haven't decided if I'm going to open it now or wait until I can hack it.


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## elk1007 (Nov 27, 2020)

Why don't you buy up all the PS5's and then sell them to people at retail price?


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## Jayro (Nov 27, 2020)

Veho said:


> It is very hard to automatically detect whether an order is legitimate or a bot, especially when there are thousands of requests per minute, both legitimate and bots. You could implement a series of captchas every step of the ordering process but that's not very consumer friendly. And 99.9% of any store's inventory will not have scalpers preying upon it, so it's _a lot_ of work to secure that one item doesn't fall into the wrong hands. And in the end, money is money.


It's easy. If there's more than one purchase to the same address, refuse anything over 1 purchase. Scalpers and their bots don't ship to more than a few addresses, so it would ultimately slow them down to a crawl, at the very least. And limiting 1 per customer every 6 months is a safe and fair bet.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Why don't you buy up all the PS5's and then sell them to people at retail price?


I hope you're being sarcastic since Sony had a strict limit of 1 PS5 per household.



Jayro said:


> It's easy. If there's more than one purchase to the same address, refuse anything over 1 purchase. Scalpers and their bots don't ship to more than a few addresses, so it would ultimately slow them down to a crawl, at the very least. And limiting 1 per customer every 6 months is a safe and fair bet.


I believe NVIDIA was manually checking addresses and canceling anything suspicious.


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## elk1007 (Nov 27, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> I hope you're being sarcastic since Sony had a strict limit of 1 PS5 per household.



If a scalper can do this, why can't a whitehat scalper sell them to people at retail?


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## Jayro (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> If a scalper can do this, why can't a whitehat scalper sell them to people at retail?


I'd prefer door-to-door PS5 salesmen from Sony selling PS5's over this current bot-snatching bullshit.


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## elk1007 (Nov 27, 2020)

Jayro said:


> I'd prefer door-to-door PS5 salesmen from Sony selling PS5's over this current bot-snatching bullshit.




Could GBATemp arrange something like this? Probably not officially, but...;P


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## Jayro (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Could GBATemp arrange something like this? Probably not officially, but...;P


Not unless someone here runs a bot and snags a shitload of PS5s.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 27, 2020)

Jayro said:


> Not unless someone here runs a bot and snags a shitload of PS5s.


Then you have to hope the delivery driver doesn't replace the box contents with stuff like cat food and cheap kitchen appliances.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/amazon-uk-ps5-theft


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## ital (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks scalpers are good businessmen?



They find demand and supply it. Its the way all business works since the beginning and it always will. If anything you should applaud their thinking and acumen as this is no different from any other commodity. Whenever there is something that everyone wants and there is a limited supply of the potential for profit exists therefore you'll have people who trade their lives for minimum wage then throw a fit when they can't buy a PS9 to offset the horror of their day to day living and those who scalp instead and generate way more income for far less effort. 

You tell me who's the good businessman there? Look at the life decisions at play and use of smarts or lack thereof.

This is great for the companies as it shows how in demand their product is, generates free advertising and increases their prestige in the eyes of consumers so its in their interests too.

Of course you've got the "Muh gaymes!" crowd but then they aren't the most intellectual, are they? Given that most of them are overgrown manchildren in the first place...



elk1007 said:


> Why don't you buy up all the PS5's and then sell them to people at retail price?



Because it far easier to whine online like a big baby and ask someone else (ie surrogate parent, usually da gubbermint) to pick them up, say "its alright" and whisper sweet nothings in their ear to soothe their little tantrum than do anything even remotely productive.

Anyone who wanted one that bad could've found the bot script - they're really easy to do - and "scalaped" one for themselves or even a few and sold them at retail price (to people who would've resold for a profit anyway). 

C.R.E.A.M.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 27, 2020)

People do have some very odd ideas about how markets work and should work.

On game shops not selling incidentals. I am sure they have very long lists of associated sales with consoles, which without knowing anything other than my observations of launches over the years I shall still bet it all on being "little and less". Bonus the second is if most of these are realised with straight cash rather than trade in then they also are spared that headache, which probably also makes up for the lack of local game sales if the middle income area consoles themselves are being plundered for the more money than sense/meh it is just $1000 crowd.

The console makers don't care as it is not like they are going into storage as increasing price assets. Indeed if the rich people are buying them they will probably get some short time game income, and long term as well (which will happen anyway as people eventually will get them once stock levels rise and it is not like there are any games out now). Plus the whole free marketing bit.
Worst case scenario for Sony is the new Xbox is all that and more and thus they miss out on something there, however first mover and first Christmas only means so much if the public sentiment has shifted/quality is evident.




godreborn said:


> you just have to say that you entered the wrong amount to retract a bid on ebay.  there's actually like four or five options you can select from to retract a bid and there are no consequences or anything.  I saw on ebay a playstation 5 (box only) going for over $800.  that either can't be real, people aren't reading the title and or description, or just people fucking around with scalpers.  that auction was obviously put up just to trick people into thinking they were bidding on a ps5.



That sort of thing has been happening for years
https://www.theregister.com/2005/12/08/xbox_photo_auction/



CMDreamer said:


> If the final customers weren't as naive to buy from scalpers, then they wouldn't have that business model.
> 
> But people are so consumer addict that most of the time they don't care about paying more money for whatever they want to own, even if its pure crap.


Is it naive to buy from scalpers?
If I am some random business wonk that will happily drop $1000 in a bar/restaurants of a weekend, on clothes to wear a few times or out skiing then the notion of buying the new shiny is nothing outrageous really. If said same has a spoiled brat that wants the shiny shiny then market the second.



Jayro said:


> It's easy. If there's more than one purchase to the same address, refuse anything over 1 purchase. Scalpers and their bots don't ship to more than a few addresses, so it would ultimately slow them down to a crawl, at the very least. And limiting 1 per customer every 6 months is a safe and fair bet.


Suddenly my little country house is a block of flats (and with the rate of house building around here nobody has a current list of anything), floors 1 through 30 and A through Z on each floor (maybe even some number-letter combo to go further), or indeed if my mate works in a block of flats as a doorman then package intercept for people never addressed to, never paid anything for and will never know (they never paid for anything after all, maybe even just the little old ladies if they do think to check against their database and confirm activity).
Makes it harder but if the incentive is potentially more than 100% return for a month's work (likely not even losing anything if you can still do the new in box, or simply return as new in box, when Sony or whatever magically ramp up production such that demand is met) and some shipping it is not that hard to sort. A lot of effort all to solve a problem that isn't yours and isn't exactly impacting your bottom line.


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## elk1007 (Nov 27, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Then you have to hope the delivery driver doesn't replace the box contents with stuff like cat food and cheap kitchen appliances.
> 
> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/amazon-uk-ps5-theft



Sounds like the UK, bruv.



> On game shops not selling incidentals. I am sure they have very long lists of associated sales with consoles, which without knowing anything other than my observations of launches over the years I shall still bet it all on being "little and less". Bonus the second is if most of these are realised with straight cash rather than trade in then they also are spared that headache, which probably also makes up for the lack of local game sales if the middle income area consoles themselves are being plundered for the more money than sense/meh it is just $1000 crowd.



Could you please reword this? I'm not understanding.


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## gamesquest1 (Nov 27, 2020)

honestly it all boils down to supply and demand, there isn't that much people can do, even if you take out the bots there are still tons of shop employees who get first dibs on sales and resell at a higher price, back in the wii days I had a friend telling me how the new wii stock was basically being treated as a Christmas bonus by him and his colleagues, they got a grand total of 75 consoles in just before Christmas, 25 of which went to members of staff and another 25 were "lost" until their friends/family came into the shop and they suddenly found the "missing" stock in the back room, so 66% of their entire stock went to themselves or friends and family sure a few of them were no doubt used for Christmas presents etc but i'm sure the vast majority were just flipped for profit, cant remember what the prices were anymore, but he basically said he doubled his money

now if nobody ever bought at inflated prices there would be no demand, and thus no reasoning to bother buying up the stock, likewise if you had manufacturers release in plenty of time for Christmas with plenty of stock to the point its unfeasible for anyone to be able to gobble up the entire supply, nothing else is really going to work, captcha's to block sales? not going to work, if someone has a bot script running, they can just keep an eye on it for when the captcha pops up and do it on each bot system, this is especially easy when the consoles are dropping at a specific time, and even if you block all bots, you still have loads of people who don't care about the console in the slightest but see an opportunity to make a few bucks for very little effort, take the bots out of the equation and you just substitute them for lots more individual "scalpers" to jump onboard and gobble up stock anyway, this type of thing has happened way before internet sales or bots entered the equation, they just consolidated all the scalps into the hands of a few instead of a few thousand people the end result is pretty much the same for the end consumer regardless

basically if you want to see an end to scalping you either need to fix the supply issues or fix the demand issues i.e produce more stock or make such a shitty console that nobody even wants to buy it

at this point, the way I see these seasonal consumer frenzy parties, is its basically like a lottery, try your luck, if you get it, you get it, if you don't you don't and you will just have to wait a month or so to get it at a reasonable price your happy to pay, maybe be sure to prepare your children they might need to wait till just after Christmas for their gift, yeah it sucks, but if more people did so the demand would be quelled to such a degree that maybe just maybe let opportunists jump on a great opportunity to make a tidy profit, like them or not its perfectly understandable why someone would want to do something if it improves their own life and doesn't hurt anyone in the process


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## the_randomizer (Nov 27, 2020)

Just blame Sony, they're the ones who can't keep a new item in stock worth a damn.


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## FAST6191 (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Could you please reword this? I'm not understanding.



Game consoles and incidentals.
Others earlier were imagining the game shops would lose out if the bots buy them rather than buying overpriced sweeties, little statues of pop culture figures and whatever other high profit nonsense they do as the scalpers/bots would presumably not be buying that (at least until bot detection algos note it and like spammers doing aoihgdkjghfkjghfkjfh in the middle of their email to weight word filtering, possibly to return later once they evaded and items were delivered).
I imagine however the game shops/whatever selling them have very long lists of people buying game consoles at launch and whatever else it is they sell going back decades now ( http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter01.php , sorry for the wasted few hours if that is your first time on acts of gord).
Despite me not having access to those lists I have been at several or spoken to those that man the shops over the decades now.
Singles sell out, maybe with a game, maybe with another controller (granted split screen at this point in time is a largely forgotten affair).
Bundles sell out next, unless it is a rare one which tends not to be console launch. Unless it is the UK and in that case Game/EB often shrink wrapped a crap game with it and people tended to resent that, especially when it represented "most" (read all but I can't prove it for every occasion) of the stock.
Nobody however is browsing and buying junk. Straight business those nights/periods.

Anyway beyond that if all these bots and scalpers are rocking up with straight cash then you don't simultaneously end up with a bunch of second hand PS4s and xbones (and phones and bad games and whatever else such shops take) to deal with both on the night and going forward (if you now have 500 of the things you lack the space and have to drop prices, to say nothing of Sony/MS presumably wanting their cut while you sit there with all the money tied up in second hand PS4s nobody wants because it is old news).

Another that some might be concerned with is if all the PS5s in a middle income area get bought out and sent off to the rich area that the middle income shop will not see any game sales. Maybe not at first but in a month or three when stock comes back in and the kids that saved up for a while to get one can get one (or get another if they flipped their preorder for profit) they will be back just the same, which also will be choice timing as you might actually have some games worth playing.


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## godreborn (Nov 27, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Just blame Sony, they're the ones who can't keep a new item in stock worth a damn.



I think where they really fucked up was giving you no time to prepare for preordering.  they were just suddenly available after some sort of release video from what I remember.  at least microsoft told you when you could buy a series s/x a couple weeks in advance.


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## Ratskull (Nov 27, 2020)

All your consoles are belong to us


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## gamesquest1 (Nov 27, 2020)

godreborn said:


> I think where they really fucked up was giving you no time to prepare for preordering.  they were just suddenly available after some sort of release video from what I remember.  at least microsoft told you when you could buy a series s/x a couple weeks in advance.


that could arguably be a positive if you looking to fend off general non interested scalpers who just saw the buzz around the news and that motivated them to go try buy one to resell, or the more professional bot farm operators not having the time to perfect their bot script as the people who are first to the news would be those genuinely interested and waiting for the drop

I think the main issue here is just supply, pretty much every tech device over the past few months has been short on supply due to obvious reasons

I think one thing websites could use to fend off some bots would be using layout/ page name changes etc to buying/pre order pages to screw with the bots, maybe just switch random high value dummy items into old links to make bots buy dummy fake items and tie their money up for a while and log their bank/delivery details to exclude from ps5 purchases for a month or something


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## elk1007 (Nov 27, 2020)

FAST6191 said:


> Game consoles and incidentals.
> Others earlier were imagining the game shops would lose out if the bots buy them rather than buying overpriced sweeties, little statues of pop culture figures and whatever other high profit nonsense they do as the scalpers/bots would presumably not be buying that (at least until bot detection algos note it and like spammers doing aoihgdkjghfkjghfkjfh in the middle of their email to weight word filtering, possibly to return later once they evaded and items were delivered).
> I imagine however the game shops/whatever selling them have very long lists of people buying game consoles at launch and whatever else it is they sell going back decades now ( http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter01.php , sorry for the wasted few hours if that is your first time on acts of gord).
> Despite me not having access to those lists I have been at several or spoken to those that man the shops over the decades now.
> ...



Are you using Google Translate?


----------



## subcon959 (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Are you using Google Translate?


Believe me, that was Fast trying his best to be concise.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 27, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Are you using Google Translate?


I am not. Don't think I used overly flowery language or anything in that either.

Will go again though.

Someone earlier said that game shops only selling to scalpers/bots would lose money because they are not selling those stupid statues, sweeties costing 3 times what it costs in the supermarket 3 shops over and whatever else they are using to stave off their slow demise.
However I would bet heavily against the notion of new console buyers rocking up with armfuls of the stuff and saying "oh and a PS5 please". Game shops will know this too as they likely have all the receipts from all the shops saying what sold alongside a new game console every time this has happened for the last 20 or so years at least.
To that end they don't care.

If it is actual normal humans/game players rocking up to buy a console they likely will also be wanting to trade something against it. That then means the game shop also has a whole bunch of old junk someone no longer wants to sell so as to get some cash in. This also while Sony might have said "we let you have a bunch, they appear to have sold, pay me my money". People rocking up with nice credit cards, cash or whatever don't have this issue.

A further one that nobody said but is a "logical" extrapolation is if their stock of PS5s effectively went to the rich end of town that their middle income customers would not be back to buy games.
However said middle income people would be back in 3 months when they get their own (possibly having doubled their money if they sold off theirs they did manage to get to the rich/desperate people). Being a new console launch there are also no games to play and it will take a while for releases to happen so I am sure the game shop knows this too.

In the end the only person that loses is either the rich fool that is parted from extra money (which they seemingly happily gave, or gave into the whining of their crotch fruit), or the excited gamer that has to wait a while to play the no games because it is a new console and none are out yet. Which is to say nobody really loses out in this.


----------



## Joe88 (Nov 27, 2020)

Stuff like this has been going on a long time but not on this scale before. It started around the rtx series launch, using modified bots that were originally designed to scalp sneakers off of sales sites, for the low price of $75 a month, people were buying 40 rtx 3080's in less than a second of the online store going in stock, clearing out the whole inventory, even though they claimed they had "anti bot measures", going right to ebay and listing them for $2000 each. Then that naturally extended to the series x and ps5, same story. Than the new amd cards because why not?

Now the problem is desperate parents spending $2000 for that ps5 because little timmy wants it for christmas. They need to stop paying scalpers but I know thats not going to happened, spoiled children and the parents doing it wont stop. I do think if this continues congress might have to step in at some point and a pass a bill saying using bots are banned, bot makers could end up in prison ect since they are charging for bot access (good luck that happening because they cant even pass the bill to give a second stimulus check for the last 5 months)


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 27, 2020)

I am quite content for spoiled children to have their parents cost an idiot tax.

As far as bots it was earlier than that

That is 2013 describing events of years before, also quite a nice intro to the tech involved for the curious.
That to me says a commodity market (not like the users were in any way technical) custom bot buying millions in value and high unit volume over extended periods, and counter play from another entity. I don't think it is necessarily in the realm of skiddy toy there but eh and ebay sniper programs have been going longer still ( https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=334161 being a 2005 thread discussing software means.

I equally have no idea what basis they would use to block such things in law, much less ones that would not fall foul of any number of underlying principles of law and be struck down as soon as it hits even a baseline court, never mind an appeals court. Such things would likely also trouble high frequency trading bots and I don't imagine any government would step in the way of their financial sector making millions like that (though there have been a few pinged for "unfair practices" like flooding a market with useless requests that slow others down as they have to process them while the noise maker was free to ignore them).
Equally get 5 friends together. Even a modest gaming machine will run about 8 instances of a virtual machine with basic Linux and 1 tab basic browser preloaded with something to strip out some junk (possibly ready in basket with various premade addresses and cards loaded/autofill data*)

*what is bot, what is someone sitting on a javascript debugger and what is autofill is not an easy line to define either. See hacking tools vs debugging vs security tools every time some tech illiterate politico has a brain cell smash together.

Equally while I would join those of the opinion that most congress types would not be able to pass a "oh fuck we are on fire, someone chuck some water on it" bill I don't know that a second round of free money is of similar need.


----------



## CMDreamer (Nov 27, 2020)

Ratskull said:


> All your consoles are belong to us



"All your money are belong to us". The scalpers.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

elk1007 said:


> Sounds like the UK, bruv.]
> 
> There were reports of it happening in the US too.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

godreborn said:


> I think where they really fucked up was giving you no time to prepare for preordering.  they were just suddenly available after some sort of release video from what I remember.  at least microsoft told you when you could buy a series s/x a couple weeks in advance.



Microsoft did something right for once? Impressive.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Microsoft did something right for once? Impressive.


It wasn't Sony's fault.  Retailers jumped the gun.  Sony said Pre-Orders would start the next day but retailers decided to do them that day without notice.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> It wasn't Sony's fault.  Retailers jumped the gun.  Sony said Pre-Orders would start the next day but retailers decided to do them that day without notice.



I hope every one of those dumbass scalpers gets ripped off.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> I hope every one of those dumbass scalpers gets ripped off.


As do I.  I mean selling them for more than 2x retail price should be criminal and illegal.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> As do I.  I mean selling them for more than 2x retail price should be criminal and illegal.



And people enabling scalpers are just as bad, just don't buy from those losers I say


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> And people enabling scalpers are just as bad, just don't buy from those losers I say


The sad thing is some people are stupid and desperate and flush with cash.

It's the same reason that Ransomeware is so profitable.  People kept paying.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> The sad thing is some people are stupid and desperate and flush with cash.



I kinda want a PS5 to be honest, but I don't have a 4K TV, so I feel like it'd be a waste on a full HD TV, no?


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> I kinda want a PS5 to be honest, but I don't have a 4K TV, so I feel like it'd be a waste on a full HD TV, no?


I don't have a 4K tv either but I bought a PS5.  I got for the games I want to play, not for the 4K stuff.  Plus with the limited amount of storage, you save a lot by not playing in 4K.

The funny thing is I waited almost a full day before ordering mine from Sony's website and still got one.  But it was invite only.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> I don't have a 4K tv either but I bought a PS5.  I got for the games I want to play, not for the 4K stuff.  Plus with the limited amount of storage, you save a lot by not playing in 4K.
> 
> The funny thing is I waited almost a full day before ordering mine from Sony's website and still got one.  But it was invite only.



Well I don't find that encouraging, I'll probably never get one at least until June 2021 >.> Thanks, Sony. Stingy pricks.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Well I don't find that encouraging, I'll probably never get one at least until June 2021 >.> Thanks, Sony. Stingy pricks.


You had to be a PS+ subscriber to get an invite for first dibs.  They even offered free launch day shipping.  I still haven't opened it up yet. Debating on if I want to keep it or put it for auction and see how much people want to spend on it.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> You had to be a PS+ subscriber to get an invite for first dibs.



So pretty much, no other way to get one. What a pain in the ass from Sony.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> So pretty much, no other way to get one. What a pain in the ass from Sony.


I could have gotten the FedEx guy into trouble as he dropped it off and didn't have me sign for it even though he marked it as if I did sign for it.  But I'm not that type of person.

I just wish that Sony and retailers would do something about the scalpers.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> I could have gotten the FedEx guy into trouble as he dropped it off and didn't have me sign for it even though he marked it as if I did sign for it.  But I'm not that type of person.



Do I need to be a PS + member to sign in here? I tried my regular PSN account details and it said "access denied" What the deuce? 
https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/hardware/ps5


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Do I need to be a PS + member to sign in here? I tried my regular PSN account details and it said "access denied" What the deuce?
> https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/hardware/ps5


Shouldn't have to be.  PS+ just gets free shipping.  I'll check my non PS+ account.  Be right back.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Shouldn't have to be.  PS+ just gets free shipping.  I'll check my non PS+ account.  Be right back.



Maybe it's Chrome being stupid, because I can't seem to sign in at all, access denied though? Sony, you suck ass.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Maybe it's Chrome being stupid, because I can't seem to sign in at all, access denied though? Sony, you suck ass.


I'm using Safari on a Mac and I get "Referral Denied" with a non PS+ account.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> I'm using Safari on a Mac and I get "Referral Denied" with a non PS+ account.



So it's not just me, what do I do now? Sign up for PS+? Ugh this is BS.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> So it's not just me, what do I do now? Sign up for PS+? Ugh this is BS.


They are out of stock anyway.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> They are out of stock anyway.



Right, but I still want to at least be able to sign in, don't I?


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Right, but I still want to at least be able to sign in, don't I?


I guess you'll need PS+ in case they get them in stock.  I have a spare US PS+ for $30 fro 12 months.  I'm good till 2025.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 28, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> I guess you'll need PS+ in case they get them in stock.  I have a spare US PS+ for $30 fro 12 months.  I'm good till 2025.



I guess I can sign up for it, but what a pain. I don't see myself getting a PS5 any other way TBH.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 28, 2020)

I believe that requiring in person ordering, like a toll free number you would have to call to place your online order would greatly hamper scalpers ability to buy more than 1 console at a time and from the same retailer. Though the owners of the store and Sony are in the business of making money and hiring real life people to answer calls would cost too much. If you think Sony or the retailer you're shopping at care that their consoles are selling out and would want to stop that you're greatly mistaken.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 28, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> I guess I can sign up for it, but what a pain. I don't see myself getting a PS5 any other way TBH.


Once more games come out it will get better.  I just hope they fix the UI issues first.  Many features the PS4 had the PS5 doesn't yet.  They made it convoluted to shut down.


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Once more games come out it will get better.  I just hope they fix the UI issues first.  Many features the PS4 had the PS5 doesn't yet.  They made it convoluted to shut down.



In a few years there will be a cheaper more efficient model and plenty of games all for much cheaper than what they are now. If you already have a backlog of games to play then why don't you spend some time on them and simply wait to get the PS5? I'm also sure after a couple of years any lingering UI issues will be resolved.


----------



## chrisrlink (Nov 29, 2020)

As of right now the US only has anti scalping laws for essential items only it was enacted early on from covid we need it expanded to for any item of value some states have ticket anti scalping laws (for concerts etc) though rarely enforced perhaps if we as americans (assuming you are in the US) stop beating up the other side and actually work together by calling your state legelature to pass a national anti scalping law maybe it can be done now that biden will be in office and if they kill it in senate DON'T FREAKING REELECT THEM in MIDTERMS cause obviously they don't have you the consumer in mind sorry for the political rant but if your gonna wine and bitch without even contacting your rep then it's on you


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

gregory-samba said:


> In a few years there will be a cheaper more efficient model and plenty of games all for much cheaper than what they are now. If you already have a backlog of games to play then why don't you spend some time on them and simply wait to get the PS5? I'm also sure after a couple of years any lingering UI issues will be resolved.


Getting it as early as possible is good for when they hack it as the lower the firmware the more exploits it can have.



chrisrlink said:


> As of right now the US only has anti scalping laws for essential items only it was enacted early on from covid we need it expanded to for any item of value some states have ticket anti scalping laws (for concerts etc) though rarely enforced perhaps if we as americans (assuming you are in the US) stop beating up the other side and actually work together by calling your state legelature to pass a national anti scalping law maybe it can be done now that biden will be in office and if they kill it in senate DON'T FREAKING REELECT THEM in MIDTERMS cause obviously they don't have you the consumer in mind sorry for the political rant but if your gonna wine and bitch without even contacting your rep then it's on you



Let's band together.  Who's with me?


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

godreborn said:


> I think where they really fucked up was giving you no time to prepare for preordering.  they were just suddenly available after some sort of release video from what I remember.  at least microsoft told you when you could buy a series s/x a couple weeks in advance.



Where Sony fucked up is they sold double the number of consoles as Microsoft. Oh wait.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> Where Sony fucked up is they sold double the number of consoles as Microsoft. Oh wait.


LOL.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Getting it as early as possible is good for when they hack it as the lower the firmware the more exploits it can have.



I kinda expect the PS5 to not be hacked this time round. They keep taking away attack surfaces.

Having a console forever on the launch firmware is likely to be as useful as not owning one.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> I kinda expect the PS5 to not be hacked this time round.


Never say never.  Plenty of products had those claims and they were eventually hacked.  The PS3 was considered unhackable.  Then Sony made the bonehead move of removing OtherOS.  This gave hackers the incentive to hack it and it took them almost no time.

The real reason Sony removed it was to save money not to combat piracy as they claimed.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Once more games come out it will get better.  I just hope they fix the UI issues first.  Many features the PS4 had the PS5 doesn't yet.  They made it convoluted to shut down.



I don't know, I just don't


----------



## gregory-samba (Nov 29, 2020)

"Can't be hacked" or "Won't be hacked' are really pretty ignorant things to say especially on this site.


----------



## SonowRaevius (Nov 29, 2020)

World really does need to come down hard on scalpers and hoarders, shit is absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

If these idiot people would stop buying the scalped items, the scalpers would stop buying plain and simple.  They'll keep doing it since it turns a profit for them.

Also the sad part is the retailers don't care as they get their money regardless who buys.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Never say never.  Plenty of products had those claims and they were eventually hacked.  The PS3 was considered unhackable.  Then Sony made the bonehead move of removing OtherOS.  This gave hackers the incentive to hack it and it took them almost no time.
> 
> The real reason Sony removed it was to save money not to combat piracy as they claimed.



PS3 wasn't considered unhackable.

They released the Slim without OtherOS in September 2009, George Hotz announced a hack that used OtherOS on a Fat in January 2010 and Sony removed OtherOS from the latest Fat firmware in March 2010. Removing it wouldn't save them any money.

It then took until 2011, nearly 5 years after the ps3 launch, before the ps jailbreak dongles arrived.
I can't see many people leaving a ps5 on launch firmware for 5 years.



gregory-samba said:


> "Can't be hacked" or "Won't be hacked' are really pretty ignorant things to say especially on this site.



xbox one says hi.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> PS3 wasn't considered unhackable.
> 
> They released the Slim without OtherOS in September 2009, George Hotz announced a hack that used OtherOS on a Fat in January 2010 and Sony removed OtherOS from the latest Fat firmware in March 2010. Removing it wouldn't save them any money.


That's what Sony said publicly as it would sit well with most people that were against that stuff.  In actuality it wasn't included in the Slims as it was cheaper as it was one less thing they had to code.  They said they weren't going to remove it from Fats.  They were looking for an excuse to remove it from FATs as well and GeoHotz gave them that excuse.  Maintaining software that not many consumers used cost money.  With each update they had to make sure that stuff in OtherOS wasn't broken as well as keeping it sandboxed.  By completely removing it, it would save them money.  If saving money wasn't the issue they would have included it in the Slims.  If GeoHotz never announce his supposed hack, Sony would have never had a consumer acceptable reason to finally remove it.  The same can be said when Sony removed the PS2 hardware from the PS3, it saved Sony money as those BC models cost Sony around $1000 each to make. Someone high up in Sony actually made a statement saying that if you wanted PS2 compatibility you should have bough a launch model even though they were discontinued.

If people didn't care about OtherOS then Sony never would have been sued over it.

If I remember correctly, his hack didn't enable Piracy.  It enabled home-brew to use resources that were not allowed in OtherOS.

Also the update was released April 1st.  For over 3 years the PS3 remained unhacked. But once OtherOS was removed, hackers needed to find a new to run home brew and it didn't take them long.

EDIT: OtherOS was removed in the 3.21 update.  Hackers released their exploit on 3.50 which Sony countered with 3.55.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Maintaining software that not many consumers used cost money.



Removing otheros and testing what happened when upgrading from a pre otheros to post otheros version will also have cost them money.

I would be surprised if it saved them anything, the class action lawsuit cost them more than otheros ever cost to develop and maintain.

If it had been for cost reasons then they would have just restored otheros.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> Removing otheros and testing what happened when upgrading from a pre otheros to post otheros version will also have cost them money.


I don't think Sony would even test that as they didn't even bother to add anything to remove the OtherOS install after updating.  Unless you remove the OtherOS partition before the 3.21 update there is no way to remove it without a full format.


----------



## Mythical (Nov 29, 2020)

There's nothing wrong with buying and reselling non essential goods but the markups these scalpers do are way too far over what it should be


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

Mythical said:


> There's nothing wrong with buying and reselling non essential goods but the markups these scalpers do are way too far over what it should be


The sad thing are the people that actually buy it for those insane prices.  Unless people stopped buying them and/or it became illegal to gouge that much the scalpers are never going to stop.

When I was selling Wii systems when they first came out I was basically getting $20-30 in profit after all costs were considered as I would list them for auction on eBay at what it would cost me to sell them to break even.  I was lucky enough to live fairly close to the Nintendo Store in New York City that received daily shipments of them.  So my dad would either take me, my sister or my mom into the city to buy them to resell for people who couldn't get them.  Plus it was nice to spend time with my dad.


----------



## tech3475 (Nov 29, 2020)

replicashooter said:


> This is great for the companies as it shows how in demand their product is, generates free advertising and increases their prestige in the eyes of consumers so its in their interests too.



They would have likely sold the same amount and people have blamed them and retailers for the scalping.

They may also be losing out on games, accessory and services sales, especially if the scalped units don’t sell.

So no, in the case of the PS5/Xbox I don’t think it’s “great” for the companies, in fact it may be losing them money.

The only time I’d say scalpers are ‘good’ is for items which otherwise weren’t selling and/or had low demand.


----------



## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

Mythical said:


> There's nothing wrong with buying and reselling non essential goods but the markups these scalpers do are way too far over what it should be



I don't have a problem with them doing it as long as they don't charge more than retail price.
I would expect a discount from them as it's second hand & you will have less consumer protection.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

Maybe once the firmware issues are actually fixed, and when Sony learns to not artificially limit stock, I'll consider buying it.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Maybe once the firmware issues are actually fixed, and when Sony learns to not artificially limit stock, I'll consider buying it.


They are not artificially limited stock (and it doesn't make financial sense for Sony either), they are having a hard time manufacturing them fast enough just like Microsoft is.  COVID has done a lot of damage in the manufacturing industries.  NVIDIA is having a hard time producing enough RTX 3000 series GPU as the company that supplies the GPU RAM can't make enough of it fast enough.  This is why NVIDIA temporarily canceled the 20 and 24GB RTX 3080 models as there just isn't enough RAM to go around.

Sony's only advantage over Microsoft is that they started final production way before Microsoft did (Maybe why some people are having hardware issues).  MS only started making their consoles during the Summer as they were waiting on AMD for some of the GPU related stuff.

Also you have to wonder how many units are recycled before shipping due to defects.  For something as complex as the PS5's APU there has to be ones they can't use and since they aren't offering a lower-specced version, binning components is not an option.

EDIT:  It's likely that MS is manufacturing a single APU version, the one in the Series X.  Since they offer a lower specced version any APU that can't run at series X specs but can run at series S specs will be binned to the S.

Sony does not see any profit a scalper makes so there is no financial reason to artificially limit supply.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> They are not artificially limited stock (and it doesn't make financial sense for Sony either), they are having a hard time manufacturing them fast enough just like Microsoft is.  COVID has done a lot of damage in the manufacturing industries.  NVIDIA is having a hard time producing enough RTX 3000 series GPU as the company that supplies the GPU RAM can't make enough of it fast enough.  This is why NVIDIA temporarily canceled the 20 and 24GB RTX 3080 models as there just isn't enough RAM to go around.
> 
> Sony's only advantage over Microsoft is that they started final production way before Microsoft did (Maybe why some people are having hardware issues).  MS only started making their consoles during the Summer as they were waiting on AMD for some of the GPU related stuff.
> 
> ...



Right but they could have put off release a month or two in order to iron out some of the bugs. They had a rushed launch, and there aren't really any compelling exclusives, IMO.  Scalpers are still dickweeds for snagging all the stock. Screw them.


----------



## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Right but they could have put off release a month or two in order to iron out some of the bugs. They had a rushed launch, and there aren't really any compelling exclusives, IMO.  Scalpers are still dickweeds for snagging all the stock. Screw them.


As Sony is competing against its rival, Microsoft, they couldn't afford to wait.  Also not all bugs are found during in-house testing.  The first PS5 update that user got was published on the 6th.

As for scalpers, the retailers should never have put the console's actual store listing web address public as this allowed the scalpers to set their bots up in advance ready to punch the millisecond pre-orders went live.  They should have had a generic landing page and not publish the final addresses until right before pre-orders would go live.  Also they never should have jumped the gun and completely ignore Sony's announcement.  Also Sony should have worked with retailers to prevent a dwelling from receiving more than one console by having all orders go through them for verification before shipping anything.  There are many eBay ads with pictures showing the sellers having a half dozen or so units.  Some a lot more.  If people stopped being stupid and desperate, scalpers would stop as they only continue as long as it's profitable.  It's like Ransomeware, criminals keep doing it because companies kept paying instead of practicing good backup routines.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> As Sony is competing against its rival, Microsoft, they couldn't afford to wait.  Also not all bugs are found during in-house testing.  The first PS5 update that user got was published on the 6th.
> 
> As for scalpers, the retailers should never have put the console's actual store listing web address public as this allowed the scalpers to set their bots up in advance ready to punch the millisecond pre-orders went live.  They should have had a generic landing page and not publish the final addresses until right before pre-orders would go live.  Also they never should have jumped the gun and completely ignore Sony's announcement.  Also Sony should have worked with retailers to prevent a dwelling from receiving more than one console by having all orders go through them for verification before shipping anything.  There are many eBay ads with pictures showing the sellers having a half dozen or so units.  Some a lot more.  If people stopped being stupid and desperate, scalpers would stop as they only continue as long as it's profitable.  It's like Ransomeware, criminals keep doing it because companies kept paying instead of practicing good backup routines.



So in essence, people like me will never be able to get a PS5 at least, until May or June 2021 at this rate.


----------



## godreborn (Nov 29, 2020)

I kinda want a ps5, because switch onward I plan to go legit.  however, I've heard of tons of software and hardware problems with them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I kinda wish the switch had achievements too.  that's one thing that interests me in the ps5.  I'm a platforming master.    I managed to get 842 thus far power moons in odyssey with no guide.  I don't want to use a guide, but I'd like to move on from the game.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Nov 29, 2020)

3500 units isn't nothing, but it shouldn't be enough to be giving major shortages of the system on a large scale, unless there were going to be supply issues to begin with, which as I understand it was indeed determined would be an issue ahead of time due to part shortages thanks to covid.


----------



## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

MikaDubbz said:


> 3500 units isn't nothing, but it shouldn't be enough to be giving major shortages of the system on a large scale, unless there were going to be supply issues to begin with, which as I understand it was indeed determined would be an issue ahead of time due to part shortages thanks to covid.



It's those dumbass scalpers' fault


----------



## MikaDubbz (Nov 29, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> It's those dumbass scalpers' fault


I'm not saying that scalpers aren't contributing to the issue, but they don't actually seem to be the main reason for shortages to begin with.


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## smf (Nov 29, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Right but they could have put off release a month or two in order to iron out some of the bugs.



Moving christmas would be tricky.



MikaDubbz said:


> I'm not saying that scalpers aren't contributing to the issue, but they don't actually seem to be the main reason for shortages to begin with.



There are always shortages during console launches, because it's not cost effective for them to manufacture such high numbers and then not sell any for a year.


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## Benja81 (Nov 29, 2020)

To address some arguments here like, "the dumb people need to stop buying scalped consoles if they want it to stop."

No. The ones buying at scalper prices are the ones only _slightly_ annoyed about paying that price (they are well off). The "dumb" ones like me who cannot afford to pay scalper prices, thus want it to stop, are the ones who already can barely afford and probably making other sacrifices in order to afford just the retail price (also why I game on the PC mostly).

As for stopping it, there is really 2 old sayings that both fit, not to mention its part of capitalism/free market:
1)Science may figure it out someday, but they haven't done so yet (or ya, probably they don't really want to).
2)Money makes the world go 'round, my friends.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

The people who buy from the scalpers are a big part of the problem.  If the ones were actually annoyed they wouldn't buy it from them.  They are what we call the Enablers.  If the enablers stopped giving in to the scalpers demands, the scalpers would stop.  They only reason they continue is because there is no law against it for this type of product (that doesn't stop the drug cartels) and continue to make a huge profit.  Once something is no longer profitable, they will stop.  It's like in the US, there are plenty of cures for various ailments but because Big Pharma can't turn a profit, they won't bother even if it means people will die.  Since doctor's can't legally prescribe non-FDA approved medicine Big Pharma wins.  Big Pharma makes more money keeping people on their non-curing drugs than it would make actually finding a cure.

The enablers are the dumb ones as they cannot see/don't realize their actions of paying the scalper's demands are why the scalpers continue and cause problems for everyone else.

Maybe dumb isn't the word, but in any event they can't seem to see that their actions are causing problems for everyone else.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> Moving christmas would be tricky.
> 
> 
> 
> There are always shortages during console launches, because it's not cost effective for them to manufacture such high numbers and then not sell any for a year.



Oh no, not that.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Oh no, not that.


I just got what he said. I think Jesus and/or his Dad would be very angry if we did that.


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## Goku1992A (Nov 29, 2020)

Just wait it out. There isn't really any games that are out on it right now. PS4 still have 2 years of life in it


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## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> I just got what he said. I think Jesus and/or his Dad would be very angry if we did that.



The consoles should've been delayed and I stand by that.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

Goku1992A said:


> Just wait it out. There isn't really any games that are out on it right now. PS4 still have 2 years of life in it


Even though I was able to get a Standard PS5, I still haven't decided if I want to open it up yet or wait to see if the hackers come through.  The only PS5 game I'm interested in is Ratchet and Clank.



the_randomizer said:


> The consoles should've been delayed and I stand by that.


I assume you mean from both makers? As everyone, MS, Sony, NVIDIA, and AMD are all having production issues due to COVID.


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## Goku1992A (Nov 29, 2020)

@ccfman2004 
I told the guy at gamestop yesterday I will wait maybe 2 or 3 years before getting an PS5 and a Series-X. Unlike Nintendo Sony and Microsoft exclusives drop dramatically in price so the GT7, New Horizon Game, GOW I can snag them for $10-$20 bucks in the upcoming years. Black Friday and Cyber Monday are the best time to buy video games but back to the PS5 the new users are basically the beta testers and a better version of the PS5 will come out in the next upcoming years. If I were you I would just atleast open up to see if yours is fully functional the worst case senario if you keep it too long and if there is a defect you cant return it back after the 1 year warranty. 

@the_randomizer 
I also agree. The funny thing is the high demand for the PS5/Series-X no notable games are coming out until 2021.


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## Alexander1970 (Nov 29, 2020)

https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/marktplatz/playstation/playstation-5-5008953


 

Not for the Sellers.......Stupid is whoever does stupid ... or seems to be completely desperate ... 

By the Way,do you know,that PlayStation 5´s have different "Noise Levels" ?


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## the_randomizer (Nov 29, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Even though I was able to get a Standard PS5, I still haven't decided if I want to open it up yet or wait to see if the hackers come through.  The only PS5 game I'm interested in is Ratchet and Clank.
> 
> I assume you mean from both makers? As everyone, MS, Sony, NVIDIA, and AMD are all having production issues due to COVID.



But the delay would have helped with higher production numbers.


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## MikaDubbz (Nov 29, 2020)

smf said:


> There are always shortages during console launches, because it's not cost effective for them to manufacture such high numbers and then not sell any for a year.



Sure, but what I'm saying is that on top of typical shortages, they were telling us ahead of time that supply would be even lower than normal for a system launch because covid had been making procuring parts for production all the more difficult due to shortages stemming from the disease disrupting work flows for so long.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 29, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> But the delay would have helped with higher production numbers.


Before COVID hit they both talked about the next-gen console coming out holiday 2020.  Had they delayed it, who knows how people would have reacted.  The developers of Cyberpunk 2077 were getting death threats over the delays.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 30, 2020)

ccfman2004 said:


> Before COVID hit they both talked about the next-gen console coming out holiday 2020.  Had they delayed it, who knows how people would have reacted.  The developers of Cyberpunk 2077 were getting death threats over the delays.



Only because they're conceited, stuck up jackasses who don't have a real life outside of video games.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 30, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> Only because they're conceited, stuck up jackasses who don't have a real life outside of video games.


My point is that completely civilized people can become completely barbaric over something really stupid.  This is one reason I'm against Black Friday.


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## Deleted member 397813 (Nov 30, 2020)

Scalpers are hella gay, and even I wouldn’t go out with them.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 30, 2020)

I hope every single scalper who hoards PS5s gets robbed


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## Kioku_Dreams (Nov 30, 2020)

FYI, it's not just PS5s and Xbox SX systems. It's A LOT of technology. CPUs, GPUs, RAM, mobos, cases, mice, etc. Shit is outrageous and needs to stop.

Trying to purchase an RTX 3080... Not gonna happen for a hot fucking minute because these clowns are happy about screwing people over.


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## subcon959 (Nov 30, 2020)

There's an interesting article on IGN about the Amazon PS5's that got stolen and replaced with random goods.

So yeah, even if you manage to somehow get an order placed you can't rely on it actually getting to you safely. The world is truly going to shit.


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 30, 2020)

how stupid are people buying a fucking ps5 for one fucking game (astros gayhouse). ps5 is not worth it at the moment there really is fuck all else to play on it the launch lineup is a joke worse than the switch! just wait a year


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## tech3475 (Nov 30, 2020)

the_randomizer said:


> I hope every single scalper who hoards PS5s gets robbed



Why does that make me think of a plot out of some modern day Robin Hood/Christmas Carol story?

A Scrooge-esque scalper gets robbed and hunts down the stolen consoles to some sympathetic group/victims/whatever where the kids reaction makes his heart grow 3 sizes too big.

I think my family members have been watching too many ‘fill in the blank’ Christmas films on Christmas Movies 24.


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## Dust2dust (Nov 30, 2020)

Didn't the same kind of situation happen back in march when the covid-19 outbreak hit us?  Scalpers were buying all the toilet paper, hand sanitizer bottles, masks or other useful stuff, and tried to sell them back 3x the amount they paid.  Online marketplaces eventually banned them or blocked their accounts.  I think a solution to slow down the scalpers for electronics would be for online stores (amazon, ebay, and the likes) to have a rule saying no more than 10% markup compared to suggested retail price from the manufacturer.  Anymore than that, you're a scalper... account suspended.  If the scalpers have to only sell locally their stuff, business will nosedive.  Of course, that won't happen, because that would be much less profits for said online stores.  It should be voted as a law by the government.


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## subcon959 (Nov 30, 2020)

I dunno I think free market is just as important as free speech. But I do think when it gets to the point where it's one group buying thousands just to sell then there should be some sort of tax payable on those earnings.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 30, 2020)

I believe they passed a law that prohibits the price gouging of essentials. At least in the US.  Now to get it for everything else.


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## digipimp75 (Nov 30, 2020)

I pre-ordered the PS5 and Series X.  When they arrived, I decided to just keep the PS5 and listed the Series X on ebay for $830.  It sold in 15 minutes!   The bottom line is that people are paying these prices, and nobody is forcing their hand.


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## ccfman2004 (Nov 30, 2020)

digipimp75 said:


> I pre-ordered the PS5 and Series X.  When they arrived, I decided to just keep the PS5 and listed the Series X on ebay for $830.  It sold in 15 minutes!   The bottom line is that people are paying these prices, and nobody is forcing their hand.


The problem are the scalpers that use bots to buy a bunch of these with the sole purpose of selling them at exorbitant prices.  There is a difference if a person bought one the right way and then changed their mind and sold it.  eBay listings have sellers that have pictures with several consoles in them.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Or they want more than double retail.

Retailers are just as guilty for allowing the scalpers to be able to use their bots to mass buy the stuff.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Dec 1, 2020)

MeAndHax said:


> One captcha before the order and we wouldn’t have this mess but the retail stores act as if they couldn’t do anything


Money is money, our opinion means nothing to these companies


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## 1B51004 (Dec 3, 2020)

tech3475 said:


> Why does that make me think of a plot out of some modern day Robin Hood/Christmas Carol story?
> 
> A Scrooge-esque scalper gets robbed and hunts down the stolen consoles to some sympathetic group/victims/whatever where the kids reaction makes his heart grow 3 sizes too big.
> 
> I think my family members have been watching too many ‘fill in the blank’ Christmas films on Christmas Movies 24.


T'was the night be for Christmas, and all throughout the US, 
not a single creature was stirring, not even the man Russ;
Scalpers' plans were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that their PS5s soon would be there;
(Continue if you want.)


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## ccfman2004 (Dec 3, 2020)

A scalper was interviewed:

https://www.pocket-lint.com/games/n...-ps5-playstation-5-reseller-scalper-interview


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## jimbo13 (Dec 3, 2020)

I had no problem acquiring 15 units, I ordered 25 and got tagged/canceled on 10.  Next launch I'll do more, never have a problem moving them.


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