# Yet again, Americans prove just how pathetic they are



## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/t...f_n_507116.html

Seriously.  This kind of crap...really makes me want to just pack up and leave this country.  Patriots can say whatever they want, but this country is garbage now.  After 50 years...it STILL will only ever boil down to racism.  Some of those signs literally make me want to puke.  

*"If Brown can't stop it, then a Browning can"?*  What?  What the hell is *wrong* with people like this?  

*"Impeach Obama."*  Not really the message that's stupid, but really.  Putting Obama down to Hitler's level?  Hitler was a good leader, and a genocidal one.  Obama isn't as good of a leader as he could be, and I've yet to see him go after entire groups of people with the single intent of killing them.

*"Marxism is an Obama-Nation"*  I didn't know we were communist now.  I didn't know that Marxism was actually bad.  Communism as it is right now is bad, but Marxism at least had some good points to it...

*"Undocumented Worker"*  Can people use their brains please?  At least he was born in the damn states.  Unlike some other old fogey's we know...  

*"No Voo-Doo Medicine"*  And religious "medicine" isn't the same thing?  Again, people.  USE YOUR BRAIN.  

*"Bye Bye blahblahblah Hello Socialism"* Isn't Canada socialist?  They're doing far better then we are, last I checked...  This country is so...afraid of everything that stands for something better...  

*"Please don't $pend my future"* and *"Kill the Bill, Save the Babies"*.  Using the kids as essential billboards just makes me want to punt that woman.  Please.  Someone let me.  Then again, yet another person wanting to take away someone elses choice.  

*"Kill the bill or face the November Slaughter"*  Planning a riot, are we?  Wait until 2012, please.  Seriously though.  Are people this fucking stupid?  

Sometimes I wonder just how this country got to be anything big at all...


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## flatoutvincent (Mar 21, 2010)

its what you get with republicans


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## WildWon (Mar 21, 2010)

Oddly enough, that's not even "many" of us. That's a wonderful crew that i laugh at on a daily basis. They are the Palinites. They are the ones that are trying to run the country that will never, because they're just fucking idiots.

I don't blame you grouping all Americans in with the Tea Baggers (or tea party members or whatever they're called now). They've made enough news that it seems like it's all of us.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> *"Marxism is an Obama-Nation"*  I didn't know we were communist now.  I didn't know that Marxism was actually bad.  Communism as it is right now is bad, but Marxism at least had some good points to it...



I found a lot of your post questionable, but I just wanted to know what some of the good points of Marxism were. And how it isn't Communism.

If it's any consolation though, I agree America has more or less turned to shit over the past decades.


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

If you believe everything you read on the huffingtonpost.com you're an idiot. These are people who are sick and tired of corrupt politicians on both sides spending trillions on dollars on nothing. We're going bankrupt and this time Obama and the Democrats are at the wheel driving us over a cliff. Liberals like to talk about sustainable food and energy, well what about a sustainable fiscal policy? We're putting all of our selfishness on the backs of our children. They're the ones I worry about. I don't feel comfortable with China being my land lord because they're holding so much of our debt and financing political greed. So you might think tea partiers suck but I think you suck and I think your type sucks. At least some people are trying to pull the county back from the brink of ruin before we end up like Greece or the old soviet union.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> If you believe everything you read on the huffingtonpost.com you're an idiot. These are people who are sick and tired of corrupt politicians on both sides spending trillions on dollars on nothing. We're going bankrupt and this time Obama and the Democrats are at the wheel driving us over a cliff. Liberals like to talk about sustainable food and energy, well what about a sustainable fiscal policy? We're putting all of our selfishness on the backs of our children. They're the ones I worry about. I don't feel comfortable with China being my land lord because they're holding so much of our debt and financing political greed. So you might think tea partiers suck but I think you suck and I think your type sucks. At least some people are trying to pull the county back from the brink of ruin before we end up like Greece or the old soviet union.



*sighs*


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## Rock Raiyu (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> If you believe everything you read on the huffingtonpost.com you're an idiot. These are people who are sick and tired of corrupt politicians on both sides spending trillions on dollars on nothing. We're going bankrupt and this time Obama and the Democrats are at the wheel driving us over a cliff. Liberals like to talk about sustainable food and energy, well what about a sustainable fiscal policy? We're putting all of our selfishness on the backs of our children. They're the ones I worry about. I don't feel comfortable with China being my land lord because they're holding so much of our debt and financing political greed. So you might think tea partiers suck but I think you suck and I think your type sucks. At least some people are trying to pull the county back from the brink of ruin before we end up like Greece or the old soviet union.


You practically just proved his point with your own post. Way to go.


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## flatoutvincent (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> If you believe everything you read on the huffingtonpost.com you're an idiot. These are people who are sick and tired of corrupt politicians on both sides spending trillions on dollars on nothing. We're going bankrupt and this time Obama and the Democrats are at the wheel driving us over a cliff. Liberals like to talk about sustainable food and energy, well what about a sustainable fiscal policy? We're putting all of our selfishness on the backs of our children. They're the ones I worry about. I don't feel comfortable with China being my land lord because they're holding so much of our debt and financing political greed. So you might think tea partiers suck but I think you suck and I think your type sucks. At least some people are trying to pull the county back from the brink of ruin before we end up like Greece or the old soviet union.


we know who are republican is


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

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Fuck Republicans, they helped us get into this mess.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Rock's right.  You already proved my point.  I didn't say anything because there's nothing that I can come up with to reply to that bought of stupidity.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

Rock Raiyu said:
			
		

> You practically just proved his point with your own post. Way to go.
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> lolwut
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BUMP


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

What I mean was that, communism, in truth and if done right, COULD lead to the closest thing we'll ever obtain of a utopia.  Unfortunately, even if it has that potential, humanity will just screw it up, time and time and time again.  Good idea on paper, bad idea any other way.


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## The Catboy (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Rock's right.  You already proved my point.  I didn't say anything because there's nothing that I can come up with to reply to that bought of stupidity.


A face palm might do it, but that seems a little juvenile


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

The Pink Cat Boy said:
			
		

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Facepalm at me or him?


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## The Catboy (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

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Him.


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## cruddybuddy (Mar 21, 2010)

The majority of Americans do not want to spend the money for this health care bill, and I don't blame them. Pointing to Canada and saying, "See, they are doing it and it's better than us!" is a childish and simple-minded approach to the situation.

Something like this might evolve over time, and work. But with the pathetic global economy the way it is, and given that the country is already trillions of dollars in the hole, passing sweeping healthcare legislation, which essentially gives the government unsurpassed control, is a huge mistake.

I am actually trying to move my family to another country, an even more socialist country, because I do not want to live in the mess that is coming down the pipes. At least where I'm going they have the socialized medicine thing somewhat figured out. Good luck fellow Americans.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> What I mean was that, communism, in truth and if done right, COULD lead to the closest thing we'll ever obtain of a utopia.  Unfortunately, even if it has that potential, humanity will just screw it up, time and time and time again.  Good idea on paper, bad idea any other way.



So having no rights or individual liberty sounds ideal? I know a lot of people say 'communism looks good on paper' but what they are actually looking for is anarchy. An anarchist society is a peaceful one where people are free from the constraints of government, yet everyone has their needs met by their own work, or the help of their neighbors during hard times (the key being that it's by their own will.

Seriously, I know a lot of people mean well when they spout on about communism, but it's not what you're looking for, unless you're the type that likes jail.


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## science (Mar 21, 2010)

Canada isn't Socialist, we have a mixed economy, which takes both Socialist aspects and Capitalist aspects. Mostly Capitalist. But I agree with what you are saying.


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## 404errord (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> If you believe everything you read on the huffingtonpost.com you're an idiot. These are people who are sick and tired of corrupt politicians on both sides spending trillions on dollars on nothing. We're going bankrupt and this time Obama and the Democrats are at the wheel driving us over a cliff. Liberals like to talk about sustainable food and energy, well what about a sustainable fiscal policy? We're putting all of our selfishness on the backs of our children. They're the ones I worry about. I don't feel comfortable with China being my land lord because they're holding so much of our debt and financing political greed. So you might think tea partiers suck but I think you suck and I think your type sucks. At least some people are trying to pull the county back from the brink of ruin before we end up like Greece or the old soviet union.



LMFAO... all I hear is "MONEY MONEY MONEY THINK OF THE MONEY" with a vapid outer layer of "TEH CHILDRENZ, THINK OF THEM!"

THE FUCK YOU DOIN, REPUBLICAN?


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> What I mean was that, communism, in truth and if done right, COULD lead to the closest thing we'll ever obtain of a utopia.  Unfortunately, even if it has that potential, humanity will just screw it up, time and time and time again.  Good idea on paper, bad idea any other way.


Look who's stupid. Communism has only lead to the party officials having all of a nations wealth and the reast of the people going hungry and waiting in long food lines for scraps. You can't name one time were communism has ever been successful for a nation. I can tell you that it's lead to famines that killed tens on millions the China and over six million starved in the Ukraine. Human rights trampled on freedom of speech banned. That is communism. The only place it can work is in your head or a fairy tale.

Just look if you dare.
http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/unknown.html


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## Law (Mar 21, 2010)

Danny Tanner said:
			
		

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Maybe you should try looking up a definition of communism that isn't the American one.


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## Skyline969 (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> *"Bye Bye blahblahblah Hello Socialism"* Isn't Canada socialist?  They're doing far better then we are, last I checked...  This country is so...afraid of everything that stands for something better...
> Actually, we have a Conservative government.
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The US just likes to get deeper and deeper into debt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In my opinion, they're not very Conservative, but I digress.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

Law said:
			
		

> Maybe you should try looking up a definition of communism that isn't the American one.



Enlighten me. I obviously can't trust my sources.


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## Vidboy10 (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> *"Marxism is an Obama-Nation"*  I didn't know we were communist now.  I didn't know that Marxism was actually bad.  *Communism as it is right now is bad *, but Marxism at least had some good points to it...


How is communism bad right now? It's still great right now. I mean China's economy is growing faster then a rocket.

But anyway, those people are just a bunch of pailin supporters, just ignore them.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

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Your stupidity grows.  Reread my post.  I never said communism has ever been successful.  It hasn't.  Which is why I said, good on paper, bad in execution.  Human selfishness will break it any time.  I even said, even if it has the potential, it can never REACH that potential.  You moron.  Learn to read, please.


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## Advi (Mar 21, 2010)

South Carolina? Georgia? Well, there's your sign.

A lot of countries don't seem to realize that we hate the southern states even more than they do


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 21, 2010)

Eventually I realized that politics here suck and there's no point bothering. The whole thing is on a pile of slippery shit on a steep slope. I suggest that you get out while you can.


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## Advi (Mar 21, 2010)

As epic that video is, I agree with you there, the only way to win at politics is not to care.


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

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Hey you're the one that gets their info spoon fed from propaganda without thinking. Moron, idiot. I've seen it up close all social programs do is create corruption and keep people poor. That is where the real crime is. People can't ever reach potential under those circumstances. Name one time it's ever worked. All the poor people that live around me are treated like dogs where the government keeps them in shitty housing and pays them not to work. Then if they get a job they get booted from the rolls so they never have the incentive to better themselves.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

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With the amount of utter crap you're spewing...I can't help but wonder if you're merely trolling me...


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## Golin (Mar 21, 2010)

Vidboy10 said:
			
		

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Hey communism would be successful if we were all robots.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

If we were robots, we probably wouldn't NEED government...


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## BoxShot (Mar 21, 2010)

Meh politics sucks and I mean it SUCKS! Even though America condemns communism look at China as pointed out in vidboy's post. >.> 

Is there any other countries doing bad as us?

So need to move out of the US.


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## Advi (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

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u mad.


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

Again nothing to say. When I was growing up I was the victim of they so called benevolent public programs. We were thrown off welfare because my mom got a low paying job but that's the point isn't it. Keep people poor. Well things were hard but we made it without the government's helping hand. Now I have to get slammed with higher taxes for doing nothing but working harder this year than last. Why? So some politician can use my money to buy more votes. Great. Well we will see what happens come November. It's not going to be pretty.


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## Golin (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Again nothing to say. When I was growing up I was the victim of they so called benevolent public programs. We were thrown off welfare because my mom got a low paying job but that's the point isn't it. Keep people poor. Well things were hard but we made it without the government's helping hand. Now I have to get slammed with higher taxes for doing nothing but working harder this year than last. Why? So some politician can use my money to buy more votes. Great. Well we will see what happens come November. It's not going to be pretty.


You should read Barbara Erhenreich's "Nickel and Dimed." She performs a sort of... experiment to see just how bad it was to simply survive in America.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

Golin said:
			
		

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Didn't she buy $40 jeans? 

Honest work+ living reasonably = a hell of a lot better than any communist or socialist installment. I don't exactly see people leaving this country in droves, but a ton of people move here, so it can't be too hard.


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## Llama Riot (Mar 21, 2010)

Joe Biden > Sarah Palin

He tore here a new rectum in the VP debate.


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## Advi (Mar 21, 2010)

Llama Riot said:
			
		

> Joe Biden > Sarah Palin
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> He tore here a new rectum in the VP debate.


Not really. Sarah Palin can make herself look like a stupid MILF from Alaska on her own, usually.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Danny Tanner said:
			
		

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There's no such thing as working honestly here anymore.  You can get fired for ANYTHING.  You can bribe people with ANYTHING.  People will sell other people out, drop them to the bottom of the hell hole, just for a few more pennies in their pocket.  

There's no such thing as living reasonably anymore either, at least not for most people.  And before you say it's because they don't work hard enough, my grandparents both worked for 50+ years.  One at a car factory, that had NO AIR.  And one as a speedy semi-truck-driver.  Know what happened?  Both their works screwed them over.  Royally.  Now where are they?  Then unemployment screws them over.  Then social security and insurance screwed them over.  You can't go 10 steps without getting screwed by someone.

And Advice Dog, she's not a MILF.  She's fucking buttugly.  No, she's an annoying soccermom who I want to punt.  Badly.


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

You might not like Sarah Palin but the way I see it she doesn't want to spend ten trillion dollars in four years. She may very well share my values that people should reap the fruits of their own labor and not have to hand over their hard earned money to Obama's henchmen. The lame stream media hates Palin so she has to be pretty good.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> You might not like Sarah Palin but the way I see it she doesn't want to spend ten trillion dollars in four years. She may very well share my values that people should reap the fruits of their own labor and not have to hand over their hard earned money to Obama's henchmen. The lame stream media hates Palin so she has to be pretty good.



Your argument has a major flaw.  

1: Bush spent WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more.
2: Obama hasn't been in for nearly 4 years.  Approaching...2 years, I think.


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## Llama Riot (Mar 21, 2010)

Her foreign policy can be summed up as nothing more than pure hate/fear mongering.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> There's no such thing as working honestly here anymore.  You can get fired for ANYTHING.  You can bribe people with ANYTHING.  People will sell other people out, drop them to the bottom of the hell hole, just for a few more pennies in their pocket.
> 
> There's no such thing as living reasonably anymore either, at least not for most people.  And before you say it's because they don't work hard enough, my grandparents both worked for 50+ years.  One at a car factory, that had NO AIR.  And one as a speedy semi-truck-driver.  Know what happened?  Both their works screwed them over.  Royally.  Now where are they?  Then unemployment screws them over.  Then social security and insurance screwed them over.  You can't go 10 steps without getting screwed by someone.



To avoid getting fired, the best thing to do is be the best, or only chose to work for a company that you think is honest or won't get bought out or won't fire you. Like everything, it's risk/reward (taking a job that is). It sucks that your grandparents ended up in that situation, but there had to have been some reason why. Maybe decisions they made. Maybe it was just bad luck. Bad luck gave me a big nose and forehead, but you don't see me complaining. But it shouldn't be others job to pay for that. 

Entitlement programs can't really screw you over, since basically they just hand out cash, and the least they can do is not give it to you. Unless you mean that these programs screwed them over as workers when they had to pay the taxes for them, then I see your point.


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## Advi (Mar 21, 2010)

Llama Riot said:
			
		

> Her foreign policy can be summed up as nothing more than pure hate/fear mongering.


Not to mention she completely advocates the hunting of wolves from helicopter gunning...

What the FUCK


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Danny Tanner said:
			
		

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For a fact, the company was trustworthy.  At one point, anyway.  The reason why was greed.  They fired my grandma, and a craptonne of other people that worked for $40 an hour, and instead brought in mexicans who worked for minimum wage.  And yes, we know they were mexicans because of people that DIDN'T get let go.  Greed.  That's all that boiled down to.  

And they lost social security.  And unemployment.  Lets put it this way.  We're running off of about...$250 a month.  And most of that is my check.  And I have to work under minimum wage.  They lost, quite literally, everything because of greedy asswipes.


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## thaddius (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> *"Kill the bill or face the November Slaughter"*  Planning a riot, are we?  Wait until 2012, please.  Seriously though.  Are people this fucking stupid?


This one might be referring to "House Rules Committee Chairwoman Louise Slaughter"... Maybe.


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## aslacker55 (Mar 21, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> For a fact, the company was trustworthy.  At one point, anyway.  The reason why was greed.  They fired my grandma, and a craptonne of other people that worked for $40 an hour, and instead brought in mexicans who worked for minimum wage.  And yes, we know they were mexicans because of people that DIDN'T get let go.  Greed.  That's all that boiled down to.
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> And they lost social security.  And unemployment.  Lets put it this way.  We're running off of about...$250 a month.  And most of that is my check.  And I have to work under minimum wage.  They lost, quite literally, everything because of greedy asswipes.




I know that you feel that they screwed your family, but companies will always look for ways to make more money. It's the ugly truth, but that's capitalism. Love it or hate it; it's here to stay.


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

Hey suck it up and get another job. I've done it. I've had to retrain. If you can't do that you're lazy. No job is permanent nor should it be. We have or used to have a dynamic economy. What the fuck. Should the government guarantee everyone jobs. Jesus they can't even run the fucking RMV now they want to run the entire economy. We're going to have more to worry about than Mexicans, if that happens no one will have a job.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Hey suck it up and get another job. I've done it. I've had to retrain. If you can't do that you're lazy. No job is permanent nor should it be. We have or used to have a dynamic economy. What the fuck. Should the government guarantee everyone jobs. Jesus they can't even run the fucking RMV now they want to run the entire economy. We're going to have more to worry about than Mexicans, if that happens no one will have a job.



So you'd willingly go tell 2 60+ year olds to go get another job?  No one will hire them.  Know why?  Because they HAVE worked so long.  I dare you to fucking call them lazy.  With as much shit they've done, they'll make *you* look like a lazy, fatass slob.  Which you probably are.  Stop being a moron.  And get the hell out of my topic.


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

Yeah why the fuck not? That's what my grandmother did. Jesus Christ. Can't anyone take care of themselves anymore? I shouldn't have to pay more than 50% of my income to support all the lame ass dead beats. I've been a mechanic, a bartender, a bouncer, a carpenter, a printer, photographer, and a graphic designer. I've owned businesses some succeed some didn't but though it all I made my own way without any handouts from the government. That's American, that's why my grandparents came to this country. Not for a promise of a hand out but for the chance to have economic freedom and even if that meant potentially failing.


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## Golin (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Hey suck it up and get another job. I've done it. I've had to retrain. If you can't do that you're lazy. No job is permanent nor should it be. We have or used to have a dynamic economy. What the fuck. Should the government guarantee everyone jobs. Jesus they can't even run the fucking RMV now they want to run the entire economy. We're going to have more to worry about than Mexicans, if that happens no one will have a job.


I disagree about the "no job is permanent" rant. I mean there is a reason why the assembly line worked so well, the specialization of jobs. Unless you agree with Karl Marx and believe it is the capitalist's way of "trapping" the laborers and making us more "vulnerable."

However I do agree that no job is permanent in respect that advances in technology washes away older less efficient jobs.


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## _Chaz_ (Mar 21, 2010)

I find the title of this thread offensive.


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## dirtclaw (Mar 21, 2010)

flatoutvincent said:
			
		

> its what you get with republicans




Yeah. Democrats never compared Bush to Hitler. Nope, not once.


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## MelodieOctavia (Mar 21, 2010)

First of all, Communism on paper is an awesome idea, but placing all the power in the hands of one HUMAN, in practice will end up bad every single time. It is our inherent human nature to want to use and abuse power. Is anyone entirely sure that if Gandhi had complete and total control over the people of India, that it wouldn't go to his head just a little?

As for Obama, He wasn't the best choice, he was really the only choice. (Yeah, like I would vote for an old man with one foot in the grave, and with a running mate with the IQ of a shelled peanut) The color of his skin aside (like it makes a difference anyway, we all bleed red), Obama still has a HELL of a mess to clean up, and i'm sure 4 years isn't going to be enough to even make a dent. Lets not pretend that Obama was our sole president that put us in debt.


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## juggernaut911 (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh, I love internet debates!

RESOLUTION: YOU ALL LOSE.

Well, there are some retards out there but they just seem to really dislike certain things and have a hard time expressing it. What ever. I live under a republican house where I think alot of the ideas are weird or stupid. I've also heard plenty of ideas from democrats that were weird or stupid. I just like to think, "You win some, you lose some."

As for Obama, what has *he* done really? I'm not being a smartass, I'm just curious as my dad always gives politics the republican bias so I'm curious... even though asking anonymous people about politics is getting me nowhere, I'm just curious.

Also, AMERICA! FUCK YEAH! PORN! FUCK YEAH!


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 21, 2010)

dudeonline said:
			
		

> First of all, Communism on paper is an awesome idea, *but placing all the power in the hands of one HUMAN,* in practice will end up bad every single time. It is our inherent human nature to want to use and abuse power. Is anyone entirely sure that if Gandhi had complete and total control over the people of India, that it wouldn't go to his head just a little?
> 
> As for Obama, He wasn't the best choice, he was really the only choice. (Yeah, like I would vote for an old man with one foot in the grave, and with a running mate with the IQ of a shelled peanut) The color of his skin aside (like it makes a difference anyway, we all bleed red), Obama still has a HELL of a mess to clean up, and i'm sure 4 years isn't going to be enough to even make a dent. Lets not pretend that Obama was our sole president that put us in debt.
> wut?
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What? You think no one in this country is honest or hardworking? Throughout history peasants, serfs, et cetera have put up with the corruption and greed of the nobles. Then they had to deal with it from the rising Middle Class after 1815. The proletariats are ALWAYS put down, no matter where you go. The US isn't the only place in the world you'll see this.


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## Golin (Mar 21, 2010)

dudeonline said:
			
		

> First of all, Communism on paper is an awesome idea, but placing all the power in the hands of one HUMAN, in practice will end up bad every single time. It is our inherent human nature to want to use and abuse power. Is anyone entirely sure that if Gandhi had complete and total control over the people of India, that it wouldn't go to his head just a little?
> 
> As for Obama, He wasn't the best choice, he was really the only choice. (Yeah, like I would vote for an old man with one foot in the grave, and with a running mate with the IQ of a shelled peanut) The color of his skin aside (like it makes a difference anyway, we all bleed red), Obama still has a HELL of a mess to clean up, and i'm sure 4 years isn't going to be enough to even make a dent. Lets not pretend that Obama was our sole president that put us in debt.


Well first, we don't give all the power to one human. I don't know if you've taken U.S. Government or U.S. History or anything like that recently, but we have this whole checks and balances thing... y'know kinda cool, but also slows things down a lot when we're trying to get shit done.

But yeah, I agree with you, if my some chance Sarah Palin was going to be the U.S. President... oh goodness. *shivers* She might declare war on Russia and accidentally hit every Asian country from the Pacific to France. But technically we had other choices... plenty of other people (who don't matter because it's basically a two-party system).


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 21, 2010)

Golin said:
			
		

> dudeonline said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's talking about the communist system, not a federal constitutional republic. If communism were to be run the way Marx saw it, the world would be ran by the working class.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

dirtclaw said:
			
		

> flatoutvincent said:
> 
> 
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If any did, then they're just as stupid.  Bush isn't Hitler.  He didn't go mass-genocidal on people.  Nor was he a good leader.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 21, 2010)

Danny Tanner said:
			
		

> shinkukage09 said:
> 
> 
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I can't be arsed to go through the thread to find out if someone answered you but I'll give you a couple of good points of Marxism.  And Marxism is Communism.  What isn't Communism is Stalinism, Maoism and Jungism.  Even Cuba isn't really Communist.  There hasn't been a truely Communist country yet.

Some good points of Marxism :

Banks are state owned, not private.  In otherwords your bank works for you and is there to help you, not earn massive amounts of money from you.

All workers are entitled to a share of the profits of the company they work for.  The amount they're entitled to to depends on effort put in and productivity.  So a factory worker could earn just as much as his boss depending on how hard he worked.  Always remember, a manager would have no job if there were no workers - but there'd still be jobs if there were no managers.

Health care is socialised.  I don't understand this huge fuss you Americans have about socialised health care.  What kind of person wouldn't give money towards making sure that all their fellow citizens got adequate medical care, unless they're greedy and self centered.  I always see Americans going on about how patriotic they are, caring for your fellow citizen is part of patriotism.

Communism is a hall of alot more democratic than Capitalism.  Every citizen gets a vote in how things are run, from your community and your work right up to government level.  The government wants to set a policy?  They need the country's permission first.

Under Communism the government is there to do the will of the people, not to tell the people their will.  The party in power is strictly for administration.  They're not doing their job?  Then the people say "Bollocks to you, you're out" and vote someone else in.

Under Communism the government controls national public services.  Stuff like public transport, electricity, water etc.  The services are run for minimal profit and delivered to the public as cheaply as possible.  No more paying a fortune for necessities so that some guy can take his mistress to the Bahamas.

Everyone is entitled to equal rights, from the factory worker to the party leader.

Education is top priority under Communism.  What's the point in having an uneducated and illiterate country?  The better educated they are the more chance there is of them leading a productive life.

Under Communism free speech is far more important than the sham that's presented to us now.

Under Communism social ideals are more important than the acquisition of wealth.

Communism stresses guiding people on the right path for themselves based on what they're good at it.

----------

The actual Communist manifesto is tiny, no bigger than most political manifestos.  To truly understand it you need to learn about Marx and Engels, and what they taught and believed in.  Communism isn't the monster it's made out to be, and on the whole is a much more democratic and has more humanitarian goals than Capitalism.

edit : Fixed the wording in one sentence.  Noticed it read wrong when Hidoshi quoted it!


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## Hidoshi (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Hey you're the one that gets their info spoon fed from propaganda without thinking. Moron, idiot. *I've seen it up close all social programs do is create corruption and keep people poor. That is where the real crime is. People can't ever reach potential under those circumstances. Name one time it's ever worked.* All the poor people that live around me are treated like dogs where the government keeps them in shitty housing and pays them not to work. Then if they get a job they get booted from the rolls so they never have the incentive to better themselves.
> Wow are you serious? You've seen it up close? I live in the Netherlands and it works PRETTY well. Everyone who's working pays some tax to the government to help people who cannot work anymore or are temporary without a job. How is this 'keeping people poor' ? You just pay tax, don't know how much it is, but it's not 50% ..so it doesn't make you poor.
> Here you can not be fired for no reason, nor can you leave instantly. So that's benificial for both parties. You won't have to worry that you'll be fired from one day to another and your boss won't have to worry that he has an empty space from one day to another.
> 
> ...



Finally someone else (from GB, not America that's the best part xD) that notices it. Socialized health care is the best! Doctors still get paid plenty money (they live a luxurious live) and PEOPLE THAT ARE SICK DONT HAVE TO WORRY THAT THEY CAN'T PAY THE BILL. What's wrong with that?
I love 'Sicko' from Michael Moore. Even though he exaggerates sometimes he does have a lot of points in Sicko. People should watch it!

That's all that I have to say right now ^^


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## wyndcrosser (Mar 21, 2010)

It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.

Wynd


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 21, 2010)

wyndcrosser said:
			
		

> It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.
> 
> Wynd
> 
> ...



I think socialised health care is one of the best ideas in any political system.  I don't get all this fuss at all.  A little kid with crackhead parents is expected to go out and get job just in case he gets sick?  What kind of person would think that was acceptable!  In my opinion any country without a socialised health care system is barbaric and shouldn't call themselves civilised, regardless of how technologically advanced they are.  And the richer a country without a socialised health care system is the more barbaric it is that they don't have one.


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## Guild McCommunist (Mar 21, 2010)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> wyndcrosser said:
> 
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- Apple pie
- Baseball

YOU ARE DEFEATED MR. DAVE SIR.

The reasons why I stopped giving two shits about American politics are pretty evident. It's like watching an old marry couple bicker while making love. No one wants to watch it. Ever.


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## syko5150 (Mar 21, 2010)

wyndcrosser said:
			
		

> It's America... that's why it became the way it is. F-ck you. (FLAME WAR STARTS). I love this country, we have our issues, but there is no better country. Go... visit other countries and you'll see there isn't anything better.
> 
> Wynd


what's so great about a country that is slowly falling apart?everyday people are losing their jobs and things just get worse for Americans so please explain how America is better then other countries?Also so you know until recently i lived in America for 20 years and i left because i saw better opportunity in Japan to make more money and have a better life overall and so far i've been correct


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## geoflcl (Mar 21, 2010)

I agree. Most people who have this kind of crap:



Spoiler












... Are usually just racist buffoons who have never heard of politics.


Now, if you don't mind, please pay no attention to the tiny flag to the left of this post...


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## Pliskron (Mar 21, 2010)

Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming. 

If anyone has any intellectual curiosity and wants to know whats really going on look up the Cloward–Piven strategy. These are the words right out of the mouth of the left "in their own words" not filtered from a conservative point of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.
> 
> If anyone has any intellectual curiosity and wants to know whats really going on look up the Cloward–Piven strategy. These are the words right out of the mouth of the left "in their own words" not filtered from a conservative point of view.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy



So the US government spending millions on bailing out failed banks, that didn't happen?  Or the US government lowering taxes more and more for corporations and using the average taxpayer to make up the difference, that didn't contribute towards the rapidly crumbling US economy?  Or what about the US government encouraging corporations to look to countries like Mexico and India for cheaper labour, essentially putting millions out of work and lowering the number of jobs available to US citizens.  You don't think that had anything to do with the state of the US?  Or what about your governments attempt to expand it's Corporatocracy by invading the Middle East?  Was that free then?  Or what about all that money the government gives corporations who then give it the CEO's as bonuses, you don't think that had something to do with it?

Your government is in a mess because of Capitalism, not Socialism.

As for Americans complaining about higher taxes, you guys do make me laugh.  You'll complain about the state of your country, but you'll also complain about having to pay money for it's upkeep.  You guys like on your country like it's your parent.  It's not, it's your child and a child that you're going to pass on to your children to look after.  Why grumble about paying extra taxes if it means better education, health care, cleaner parks, better roads etc.  Imagine if University was free, how much more successful would people be?  Stop being so self centered and start thinking about those around you and the next generation.  When you guys learn to do that then maybe your country will start getting back on track.


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## Danny Tanner (Mar 21, 2010)

geoflcl said:
			
		

> I agree. Most people who have this kind of crap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lmao good logic

As for Dave, I'm not going to change your mind (or probably anyone else's) because you seem to have thought this through very well. I have to say, I agree on principle. If your neighbor can't afford to go to the doctor, you should help them. I don't think that should be mandatory however. If you work for your money it's yours to decide how to spend it. Americans are very altruistic, as shown most recently by the support for Haitian earthquake survivors. Our country, its economy, and its people just aren't built around the more traditional role of a strong central government.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 21, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.
> 
> If anyone has any intellectual curiosity and wants to know whats really going on look up the Cloward–Piven strategy. These are the words right out of the mouth of the left "in their own words" not filtered from a conservative point of view.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy



Seriously.  Please get out of my topic already.  You want to continue spouting nonsense, go ahead.  Just do it somewhere else.  And at Wynd, there's NOTHING about this country that makes it better then others.

The US:
-Invades other countries on mere whims and bullshit reasons(Iraq)
-Gets other countries to hate us, namely much of the world
-Has a horridly corrupt government, and judicial system
-Is made to where big companies can SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU, and completely ruin your life for something stupid
-Is made to where you can get sued for looking at someone funny(It's happened)
-Has a lot of people wanting slavery back

Do I really need to say more?  This country sucks, plain and simple.


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## Hidoshi (Mar 22, 2010)

Danny Tanner said:
			
		

> geoflcl said:
> 
> 
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If you earn €1000,- here each month then you'll get €869,34 after the tax has been removed. That 130,66 goes to people that are sick and some of it goes into your own 'savings' (retirement and when you get sick yourself). But you'll never miss that €130 euro's, since you never got them in the first place (this might look a bit strange, but english isn't my native language 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

You can spend the €860 euro's ANY WAY YOU LIKE, but at least you know that you've helped someone else with the money that you never received.


*edit*
Forgot to say, but it's Bush who spent all the US money. Bill Clinton was actually doing good and getting rid off the US debts, and then Bush made them much worse. Now Obama has to make up for what Bush spent, but he can't make all the decisions on his own. He still has to get approvement for things. So that makes his job harder.


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## Porygonal (Mar 22, 2010)

Wow,looks like things are getting pretty heated regarding this topic... Not that I can blame anyone.I always hear my parents talking about the government and how much they hate it and just wish they could move somewhere else... I hear how worried they are about the healthcare thing because they said it would end up being too expensive for them to afford and that how if people won't get it,that they'll be fined... I heard my mom say,''Well how are people supposed to get it if there are no jobs...?'' I really just wish we could get the hell outta here,somewhere that has less holes in it's government and somewhere with less drama.America just draws too much bad attention to itself.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

Danny Tanner said:
			
		

> As for Dave, I'm not going to change your mind (or probably anyone else's) because you seem to have thought this through very well. I have to say, I agree on principle. If your neighbor can't afford to go to the doctor, you should help them. I don't think that should be mandatory however.  If you work for your money it's yours to decide how to spend it.
> 
> I agree it's your money to spend as you like, but there's also the responsibility of the upkeep of your country.  Remember, your government isn't a corporation or a business.  It's there to administer funds necessary for the upkeep of the country, and part of that upkeep is the care of it's citizens.  If it needs those funds then of course it should be mandatory.
> 
> ...



And don't forget America also allowed what is the shining example of Capitalism that is "Dead Peasant Insurance".


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Hey I'm glad that Obama's getting heath care and making this country go flat broke. It's really the only way to prove that socialism doesn't work. I'm not afraid of what I know will never work here. Americans will never accept perpetual 10% unemployment, a banana republic economy based on crushing debt and high taxes. Within the next twenty years our whole gdp is not even going to cover the interest of our debt. All I have to say is have fun while it lasts because the clock is ticking and November is coming.What? Your slippery slope argument doesn't even make sense. Obama's plan hasn't even been passed yet. High taxes are required when a government is in debt. It is a little high, but it's important that we have it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


-It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC). 
-Uh duh. Everyone hated Germany because of how strong they were. Everyone hated the Soviet Union. Everyone hated Japan. Everyone hated France. Everyone hated Great Britain before too. It's what people do when a country becomes powerful. It's just that we have had a combo of terrible presidents to go along with it.
-That's a judicial system. Every judicial system in the world is not perfect.
-Those are rather far fetched and aren't exactly relevant due to being such an extreme.
-WHAT? 

No, it doesn't suck. You are just a little misguided. Remember: other countries aren't this country (simple, right?). Therefore, their opinions will be far more harsh. It's nationalism, pride, and (most unlikely) patriotism. Honestly, all countries have petty grievances with each other, I don't see why the US always has to be the center of attention. I don't see why the opinions are so poor either, we've saved Europe's ass three times; we aren't the only country doing poorer than usual right now.


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## zeromac (Mar 22, 2010)

So we all talking about Communist and stuff like that?
Is this the wrong place for this?


Spoiler



Go Australia we're better than America!


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 22, 2010)

zeromac said:
			
		

> So we all talking about Communist and stuff like that?
> Is this the wrong place for this?
> 
> 
> ...


Your censorship laws SUCK!


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## Advi (Mar 22, 2010)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> zeromac said:
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## Golin (Mar 22, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Seriously.  Please get out of my topic already.  You want to continue spouting nonsense, go ahead.  Just do it somewhere else.  And at Wynd, there's NOTHING about this country that makes it better then others.
> 
> The US:
> -Invades other countries on mere whims and bullshit reasons(Iraq)
> ...


Whoa, whoa... first this country doesn't suck... it's just not as good as it was several years ago.

The U.S. invade countries not on whims and bullshit reasons. They invade countries for personal vendetta (Bush) and to protect special interest groups (protect their money).
The U.S. does not get other countries to hate it, that is merely a byproduct of our war-mongering action.
The government... okay, you got me there; but we passed a health care bill. (finally)
Yes, true. It happens everywhere now though. (Don't believe me? Look at the once impregnable Sweden)
I'm not sure if it has happened... sounds a little far fetched, but I doubt the littler bastard won the case.
... Where do you live? Who wants slavery back? Slavery against who?


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## Jamstruth (Mar 22, 2010)

What I love about America is the amount of stereotypes we can find. Right Wing Christians attacking Obama? THEY GOT 'EM! Crazy Creationists? THEY GOT 'EM! Hicks? They got them too.


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## Hidoshi (Mar 22, 2010)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> -It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC).
> -Uh duh. Everyone hated Germany because of how strong they were. Everyone hated the Soviet Union. Everyone hated Japan. Everyone hated France. Everyone hated Great Britain before too. It's what people do when a country becomes powerful. It's just that we have had a combo of terrible presidents to go along with it.
> -That's a judicial system. Every judicial system in the world is not perfect.
> -Those are rather far fetched and aren't exactly relevant due to being such an extreme.
> ...



You do know that you're talking about things BEFORE WWI (so almost 100 years ago). The reason America is 'always' the center of attention, because they bring it upon theirselves. And America is the center of attention NOW, because of the whole unnecessary war in Iraq and that they won't quit it. And your example of the countries behind hated are all in the past tense. They aren't seeking war with the world anymore, so people don't have a reason to hate them (except maybe the Soviet Union).

Every judirical system is not correct, that's true. I also dislike the juridical system here, but I think America's system is a lot worse than ours. To sue someone because of a failed argument and therefore extracting tons of money from them is just wrong.


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 22, 2010)

Hidoshi said:
			
		

> Uncle FEFL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We aren't the only ones fighting in the war. 

I realize it's from past events, but the leaders of the world always seem to make the same mistakes. Not only that, but past tensions are still evident in today's society. It's somewhat natural for people to hate arrogance. We're arrogant, no doubt about that, so we're in the spotlight right now. I'm unsure of how long we'll stay there. Obama is trying very hard to change people's attitude about the world's problems, but too many Americans are too blind to do anything.

I agree.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> Outsourcing isn't only done by the US.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I totally agree with this statement!  The problem I find with alot of Americans is that they're blindly patriotic.  They simply love their country, and when asked why they reel off a list of things that have been taught to them.  They've also been taught to shun anything that sounds like it might be Communist/Socialist, without first examining whether it's actually good for the country or the people in it.  Blind patriotism allows you to be led around like sheep, the UK has started suffering this problem recently as we've adopted more and more US style practices.  Hell, it's so effective here that we might end up voting in the next Hitler in May/June.  Shameful on the UK publics part and not something that would have happened 10 years ago.


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## Pliskron (Mar 22, 2010)

Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom. And I have to ad that it was under Bush and the Republicans that America was set on this disastrous path buy putting two wars and new entitlements on our national credit card. So it's not a one part issue it's both.

I'll tell you another thing it drives me nuts to have to pay for the health care of obese people who can't stop stuffing their mouths with shit and become diabetic. I chafe at the thought that I'm paying for my neighbors kids because that slut is using getting pregnant as a career path. Now I can't afford to have another child because I have to pay for everyone else's. I have to pay to keep a roof over some drug addicts head that lives down the street. I'm the one who gets penalized for working hard and being responsible. I'm all for safety nets, but not for subsidizing irresponsible behavior and that's what socialism does. The best intensions always have the worst consequences.


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## Jamstruth (Mar 22, 2010)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> -It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC).
> UN is not NATO. NATO is a seperate entity from the UN and is a lot smaller. NATO stands for Northern Atlantic Treaty Organisation and comprises of most of Europe and North America. The UN is a much bigger organisation comprising of many of the world's countries.
> Also I love how you're so self important in America "Everything sucks unless we're in it" -_-
> 
> QUOTE(Pliskron @ Mar 22 2010, 04:55 PM) Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom.


Socialism is not slavery to the government. That is the extreme of it, there's pros and cons to both sides. Here in Britian I suppose we could be considered a Socialist country but we do still kick up a fuss over certain things like governments telling us what we can and can't do. In Capitalist countries everything seems a lot more unfair and big companies can spread very quickly and take over everything resulting in it being impossible to compete and set up a new business (from what I understand this is what would happen in a pure Capitalist state)
Both sides are about control, money and power. That's what all governmental systems are about. In my opinion capitalism is a very unfair system but that doesn't mean I'm a Communist (which looks very good on paper but can never work) as I like having my freedoms but I also like having free Health Care without the burden of finding a good Medical Insurance at the risk of being dropped on a whim.

Basically: You can take your pick but neither side is intrinsically good or evil. Both have the best intentions (most of the time.) Dictators do NOT count. Yes, Hitler was a Socialist but he believed vastly different things to many other people. The extreme of Socialism is a controlling Government hence why it seems that all the evil Dictators with their moustaches and and black capes all cultivate under the banner of Socialism.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom. And I have to ad that it was under Bush and the Republicans that America was set on this disastrous path buy putting two wars and new entitlements on our national credit card. So it's not a one part issue it's both.
> 
> You sir are a fucking idiot.  Socialism = slavery to the government?  Socialism doesn't dictate what you should eat, wear, buy or anything like that.  You need to put down your McCarthyism pamphlets and pick up a real book.  What you're thinking of are FASCISTS.  Socialism =/= Fascism.  If under Socialism you're told what to wear then explain Minox, he looks like a pretty alternative guy and he lives in a Socialist country.  Explain the punk movement in the UK, that happened under a Socialist government.
> 
> ...



Ah I see.  So you're problem with socialised health care is that it forces you to adopt humanitarian values and to care about those around you?  With socialised health care also comes the responsibility of education, education is necessary to stop people deciding that it's other peoples responsibility to look after them.  There also lies a problem with the attitude of people like you.  Why should you pay extra taxes in order to fund a school system that you might not use.  After all, you know, why should people be educated.  Education just leads to economic growth, new ideas, a stronger workforce and a more competitive industrial market.  Shameful practices I'm sure you'll agree.


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## Pliskron (Mar 22, 2010)

You're a fucking idiot. The state education system had been a failure. Social programs have been a failure. Social Security is bankrupt. I'm all for safety nets but not for funding all the bullshit that just makes people lazy and unproductive. Yes it is harder for me to become a millionaire when the government takes more that 50% of my income and lines the pockets of their political supporters then gives the rest to stupid bitches that can't be bothered to use birth control because they know they'll get my money. Thats the real social injustice. Any yes Hitler was a socialist he was head of the national socialist party. Yes socialists do tell you what to eat. They're trying to ban salt in restaurants right now. Yes they do tell you what to think. Look at the speech codes in schools. I can't own a skunk, or a double edged knife not that I want ether but tell me thats not micro managing a persons life. 

I'll leave you with a quote from Ben Franklin
“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin


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## emigre (Mar 22, 2010)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> And for the record, Hitler was not a socialist any more than Bush believes in democracy.  Hitler was a fascist.  He wasn't a communist, socialist, democrat or any other political affiliation.  He was a dictator who's only policy was an Aryan Europe.  If Hitler was a socialist then explain The Night of the Long Knives.



To add to this point, to label Hitler a socialist is nohting more than a lazy attempt by theRight to discredit socialism. Hitler's idealogically wasn't a socilist or left wing at all, jus in party name. Hitler rose becasue teh Nazi party gained the support of the business class or the petty bourgoise. When you study membership of the facists parties you actually that membership was predominatly middle class with very little coming from what can be defined as working class. In addition Hitler banned the traditional left wing partyy, the SPD.

On the subject matter, I'm pleased to hear it got passed on humanitarian grounds though I'm not best pleased that its essenitally a watered down version of what Obama wanted. Though TBF its was the best he was going to get. Personally I beleive the best healthcare is one that is free as its usually more ethical. Admittedly the British system has slowly shifted from this perspective, but that's for another day.

UN=NATO- I just want to clarify that they are two differing organisations, the UN is liberal body which places emphasis on state co-operation which can use militery force whilst NATO is a pure militery force. Their origins are also completly diferent, the former was in the aftermath of WWII and replaced the League of Nations whilst the latter was due to the Cold War.


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## megawalk (Mar 22, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/t...f_n_507116.html
> 
> Seriously.  This kind of crap...really makes me want to just pack up and leave this country.  Patriots can say whatever they want, but this country is garbage now.  After 50 years...it STILL will only ever boil down to racism.  Some of those signs literally make me want to puke.
> 
> ...



i got a quoto for these quoto's
*"Act like Your age. Or else Re-educate at the Kindergarten"*
thats my reply on these childish results.
if you can't show respect at all..
then *"Beat It"*


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## DJ91990 (Mar 22, 2010)

Okay first thing's first.
1)The USA Government is meant to look stupid so that it's people that complain look smarter.
2)2012 is crap and nothing is going to happen because in order of it to happen, the Temple of God needs to be built and the Muslims don't seem to like the idea of their holy temple being destroyed and The Temple of God being put in it's place. They have the date backwards!
3) Democrats and Republicans don't mean squat because the USA Governemt (rather we like it or not) is run by Congress.

It is not 2012 it is 2102! aprox. 50+ years after the HALO event.


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## Jamstruth (Mar 22, 2010)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> You sir are a fucking idiot.  Socialism = slavery to the government?



Pliskron is either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype. I wouldn't waste your time arguing with him, he's completely indoctrinated against anything remotely Left Wing


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## Tetram (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Any yes Hitler was a socialist he was head of the national socialist party.



The "socialist" part of "National socialist party" was not mean as "socialist" like in "socialist republic". It was here only as propaganda for the working class, and Hitler didn't do anything "socialistic". It's stupid to compare the supposed socialism of Obama and Hitler's. 

For what it worth, from France, this Health care reform seems a very nice progress in your country. I understand your point about fat people, but it's only a few people : you don't know what will be your future, and in a country like USA, don't you think a shame that some people has to sacrifice their health because of the lack of money ? Don't you think it's a shame that the american dream may be forgotten just because you caught a bad cold, or because you broke your teeth ?


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## Pliskron (Mar 22, 2010)

Now how exactly could Hitler, a man who was a strong supporter of social welfare programs, gun control, animal rights, government funding for the arts and bans against smoking in public get away with being called a “conservative”? Sounds like a modern progressive to me.


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## Pliskron (Mar 22, 2010)

Jamstruth said:
			
		

> TrolleyDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is point and counter point you obviously can't take the heat. Maybe you're "either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype" or intellectually so brittle you can't hear a strong counter argument.


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## Jamstruth (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Jamstruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, I don't really know a hell of a lot about the Political System so can't form very hard arguments when I don't know the full extent of the meaning of words. I do however know enough to understand that you spend most of your time spewing bullshit. I'm just telling TrolleyDave how useless it is to argue with you. You'll never change your views and never do any research to see that you are firing crap from all orifices in this argument.

In other news I reckon a mod will probably take both these posts away for flaming and I welcome that. You're just incredibly close minded and not worth my time.

Edit: Also, "point and counter point"? Why would you make a point and counter it? There's only one point in that post and its gone as low as flaming me. Hell we already mentioned the Nazis, this argument isn't worthwhile.


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## emigre (Mar 22, 2010)

Nobody said Hitler was a conservative, we just said he wasn't a socialist. His idealogy was based on ulltra-nationalism, facism and militarism. Whilst his economic and welfare policies were state led, it isn't deemed socilist due to teh fact it lacked universalism. In addition, the business class looked to the Nazi party for support becasue of thier fear of the communist were had a sizable number of seats in the Reichstag. Hence the use of the SA/Brownshirts to beat communist officials. Using violence and banning legitamite political organisations (the SPD) isn't exactly what mdern progression.


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## dbkdbk (Mar 22, 2010)

I didn't know we Canadians were socialists....


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> You're a fucking idiot. The state education system had been a failure. Social programs have been a failure. Social Security is bankrupt. I'm all for safety nets but not for funding all the bullshit that just makes people lazy and unproductive. Yes it is harder for me to become a millionaire when the government takes more that 50% of my income and lines the pockets of their political supporters then gives the rest to stupid bitches that can't be bothered to use birth control because they know they'll get my money. Thats the real social injustice. Any yes Hitler was a socialist he was head of the national socialist party. Yes socialists do tell you what to eat. They're trying to ban salt in restaurants right now. Yes they do tell you what to think. Look at the speech codes in schools. I can't own a skunk, or a double edged knife not that I want ether but tell me thats not micro managing a persons life.
> 
> Americas state funded schooling system may have been a failure, but that doesn't mean all state funded education systems are failures.  Up until Britain decided to become the next American state our school system was excellent.  France, Sweden, Belgium, Spain also have an excellent education system.  Canada's education system is state funded and is also excellent.  Just because your country failed doesn't mean all the others have.  Singapore pays for it's schooling system through taxation.  Tell Dommy his education is failed, he seems a hell of alot smarter and well educated than most.  So do most of the other Singaporeans on the temp.
> 
> ...



A quote from a rich guy who owned slaves made hundreds of years ago is relevant why?


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## BlueStar (Mar 22, 2010)

Excellent news America, the current system was absolutely retarded, how does it make any business sense to insure, or continue to insure the health of someone that's ill?  How are you supposed to do all this "pull yourself up by your bootstraps, make something of yourself even if you start off with nothing" type stuff if you're absolutely screwed and uninsurable if you become ill before you've earned enough to get yourself on one of the vastly artificially overpriced schemes offered by the anti-free market, uncompetitive cabal of companies that have a monopoly stranglehold on healthcare in the US at the moment?

Oh, and Pliskron...


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## emigre (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron did make me laugh though, the fact is was so sterotypically right wing was brilliant.

Teh real funny thing is that a ot of the world's best education and health systems actually are funded by taxation. Education health

Oh btx, for an economy to grow and become stronger you need more people becoming educated in the age mental work. The US system may not be working but that's just the problem of the US to be concerned with. In Swedan, the state education is excellent and you can see how that aids the Swedish economy.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Excellent news America, the current system was absolutely retarded, how does it make any business sense to insure, or continue to insure the health of someone that's ill?  How are you supposed to do all this "pull yourself up by your bootstraps, make something of yourself even if you start off with nothing" type stuff if you're absolutely screwed and uninsurable if you become ill before you've earned enough to get yourself on one of the vastly artificially overpriced schemes offered by the anti-free market, uncompetitive cabal of companies that have a monopoly stranglehold on healthcare in the US at the moment?
> 
> Oh, and Pliskron...
> 
> ...



Biggest mistake the UK ever made was scrapping higher free education.  I was part of the protests against it, people used the usual "Make them work for it" right wing style argument.  Look at what it's done to the country though.  Lots of people who could have attended move on to work instead, creating a huge unskilled and semi-skilled market.  We don't really have the industry any more to cope with masses of unskilled labour.  The people of a country need to be well educated to compete in the modern world.


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## FAST6191 (Mar 22, 2010)

Personally I am leaning towards the idea that country is a somewhat archaic concept (a bit further than I might take it at present time but http://www.ted.com/talks/parag_khanna_maps..._countries.html is a good grounding) and as a demonstration of sorts I shall point no further than the US itself- http://www.gdi-solutions.com/analysis/us_states_popdist.gif (a US population (numbers) by state chart) although post Schengen agreement Europe (perhaps instead the EU or the EC) might turn out a slightly better one as might the Nordic Council or even the UK/GB itself depending upon where you want to look at in relative time periods. Anyhow that graph shows no one state has all that many people compared to some places (the UK land area: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/uk.html , a somewhat confusing US one: http://www.energyliteracy.com/wp-content/u..._bystate_US.png , and a worldwide one: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...&rank=79#uk ) so having now established that any one state is a more or less worthless entity aside from perhaps the biggest few on a global scale the collective is a major player. Such things also carry into my opinions on immigration but that is not necessarily a different debate but one I shall sidestep for the moment.
If you want a further example how many of you find gangs based on where you live amusing (around here some of the kids have even taking to using postal codes- their changing nature lost on them apparently), I also believe it is customary to link XKCD at some point during a post like this http://xkcd.com/588/ . Reductio ad absurdum maybe but I would like to hear an argument to outright dismiss said talking point.

Similarly "best" is an odd one, I think about such things sometimes although usually in the context of an individual person as it pertains to a given field of endeavour and more specifically the subfields within that (any number of examples spring to mind but I reckon it either all boils down to adaptability and specialisation- before anyone mentions it I would argue they are far from antonyms). Back to countries though you also have the inherently difficult task of assessing (or worse assigning numerical values) to a given determination of "good" (I find http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaa9iw85tW8&fmt=18 is perhaps relevant here- the first part is good but the truly relevant stuff starts around 4:25).

Having scanned through the thread though I am somewhat amused the word democracy was not bandied about more (at all?) but the point was made in other slight differences- whose (remix?) version of a given philosophy (just to be a bastard I will spin religion into the mix- how many slight variations on the same theme let alone similar ones (see definition of abrahamic religions) exist?).

As for "supporting the layabouts" surely the key is raise the base level for everyone (see we compare things to our friends/those around us). Re food induced diabetes- never heard of the Darwin awards?

I am sure there are numerous other points I could make and while I would usually pose a question at the end of such a post I am purposely not going to this time.


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## Thoob (Mar 22, 2010)

TrolleyDave said:
			
		

> Biggest mistake the UK ever made was scrapping higher free education.


Not in Scotland... :yayfreeuni:


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> Having scanned through the thread though I am somewhat amused the word democracy was not bandied about more (at all?) but the point was made in other slight differences- whose (remix?) version of a given philosophy (just to be a bastard I will spin religion into the mix- how many slight variations on the same theme let alone similar ones (see definition of abrahamic religions) exist?).



If you mean my list of what I find positive about Communism then not all are core Marx and Engels ideology.  It's also stuff brought up by other Anarchists, Socialists and Communists.  Communism and Anarchism both being kind of splinter groups from Socialism.  Don't get me wrong, I don't fully agree agree with Communism, but I don't think any one political or economic viewpoints is the way.  I believe in a mix of ideas.  The democracy concept is stressed by Marx though.  There was supposed to be a strong central party that decided policy, direction etc. but they always had to put it to the people first.  It was a means to stop natural human corruption.  As shown by people like Stalin, Mao etc. it's still just as easily corruptable so isn't a working strategy.  The main thing to remember about Communism is it was designed to be implemented after a revolution.  You are right, there's as many interpretations of Communism as there are religious interpretations.


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom. And I have to ad that it was under Bush and the Republicans that America was set on this disastrous path buy putting two wars and new entitlements on our national credit card. So it's not a one part issue it's both.
> 
> I'll tell you another thing it drives me nuts to have to pay for the health care of obese people who can't stop stuffing their mouths with shit and become diabetic. I chafe at the thought that I'm paying for my neighbors kids because that slut is using getting pregnant as a career path. Now I can't afford to have another child because I have to pay for everyone else's. I have to pay to keep a roof over some drug addicts head that lives down the street. I'm the one who gets penalized for working hard and being responsible. I'm all for safety nets, but not for subsidizing irresponsible behavior and that's what socialism does. The best intensions always have the worst consequences.Dude, do you have any idea what socialism is? You're the exact problem everyone here is discussing. I'll be honest, I didn't read anything after that sentence. You know why? It's probably all bullshit. You DO know that while the US is mostly following capitalistic ideologies, we've had a mixed economy for years? A mixed economy is a mixture between (in most cases of mixed economies) socialism and capitalism. What the hell do you think Medicare and Medicaid are? One-hundred percent industries completely inspired by capitalism? Absolutely not. What about public school? I'm not sure if there are federal laws on public schools, but every single state controls their public schools, as well as their public universities.
> 
> ...


*facepalm* Your claims are pretty "out there;" where are you getting all of this information from, anyway? Yes, you named some of the flaws of communism, good job. What about flaws of capitalism? Paying minimum wage to a family of six while the president and CEO of the company (lets say McDonald's) makes millions. Granted, working hard gives you better chances of success here, but some DO fail even with hard work. Also, inflation and deflation of our currency is a MAJOR problem we face with the type of "economic roller coaster" we have.

Again, that is a flaw of socialism. But here's the problem, that's _pure_ communism, something that no country has ever adopted. Besides, you speak as if we're actually becoming a communist country. It'll never happen. The People won't ever allow it. Look at the original post; that's just for a HEALTH CARE BILL. Imagine if the government were to try and centralize property to the federal government in America! Anyways, even if we did, what makes you think we'll adopt that principle?

Look, communism doesn't make people work less hard, its the fact that they are unmotivated to work hard. When Benjamin was alive, Russia had absolutely filthy living conditions for its serfs. No matter what they did, they were poor and hungry. If you were poor and hungry all the time, you wouldn't even have the energy to do much else besides farming (much didn't have the energy for that either. This wasn't just happening in Russia, but it was the worst there).


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## FAST6191 (Mar 22, 2010)

I was thinking more along the lines of any time such a thing comes up in debate "we have/are bringing them democracy" being the buzzword/phrase of choice (if I was not about to watch a film I would spend some time in tracking down a news clip compilation of a few hundred talking heads (surprisingly few will know of the idea coming from ancient Greece) but if you wish to read my somewhat glib comment as something more I shall not stop you.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 22, 2010)

FAST6191 said:
			
		

> I was thinking more along the lines of any time such a thing comes up in debate "we have/are bringing them democracy" being the buzzword/phrase of choice (if I was not about to watch a film I would spend some time in tracking down a news clip compilation of a few hundred talking heads (surprisingly few will know of the idea coming from ancient Greece) but if you wish to read my somewhat glib comment as something more I shall not stop you.



If you get time to track down that film clip I'd be well interested in seeing it!


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## FAST6191 (Mar 22, 2010)

It was not the one I was looking for but something like http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...videoid=8221115 (rapidly interspersed news clips, not necessarily taken out of context like that but a similar theme)


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## Pliskron (Mar 22, 2010)

Well America is at the cross roads. Our system has sparked the technological innovation that has lead the world and been the engine to the world economies for the past 100 years. Our system not communism or socialism has been the world leader in creating new drugs, space exploration, the development of the computer industry. So the choice is are we going to be world innovates and keep the system that made us a great nation or are we going to slip into European style socialism, go broke, have high taxes, a nanny state, perpetual 10% unemployment. Trade prosperity for handouts. I honestly have no idea what side will win or if some combination of the two will ultimately prevail but I do know that this fight will cause a lot of upheaval over the next three years.


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Well America is at the cross roads. Our system has sparked the technological innovation that has lead the world and been the engine to the world economies for the past 100 years. Our system not communism or socialism has been the world leader in creating new drugs, space exploration, the development of the computer industry. So the choice is are we going to be world innovates and keep the system that made us a great nation or are we going to slip into European style socialism, go broke, have high taxes, a nanny state, perpetual 10% unemployment. Trade prosperity for handouts. I honestly have no idea what side will win or if some combination of the two will ultimately prevail but I do know that this fight will cause a lot of upheaval over the next three years.


So you are trolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're pretty good IMO.


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## BlueStar (Mar 22, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

>


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## Sterling (Mar 23, 2010)

Just read some of this stuff (like the first 3 pages), and honestly you guys are the retarded ones if you think all the Tea Partiers put up similar signs. I also remember a topic I started a while back, and I did some research, and I still don't like what I studied. If you watch ONLY the news stations that broadcast only the views of Democrats, then you are by far missing the whole picture. This bill would do me some good, my medications for Bi-polar disorder cost me over 2000 dollars a month (Parents still pay for them), and to be quite honest I want no part of the money in this bill. At most I would only want SS/MCA until I can get a decent job with or without health insurance, or until I can pay for it. I don't need pussy government handouts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I do take major offense to the Pelosi name of Tea Bagger, as I went to one of the rallies. I only saw two... TWO racist signs! For pete's sake I may be a sheep, but I have brains enough to figure this stuff out as I go...

EDIT: OMG a photshopped Glen Beck picture. How much skill you have good sir. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  :sarcasm:


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## Hidoshi (Mar 23, 2010)

Uncle FEFL said:
			
		

> Pliskron said:
> 
> 
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Exactly what I was thinking. How long are you going to keep trolling, or do you really believe what you say ?
Wait..did you say that Europe has a 10% unemployment rate? 
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/...aspx?Symbol=USD
I'm sure you mixed us up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/...aspx?Symbol=NLG
5,7% ..and the people that are unemployed aren't flat broke. Isn't that a HUGE difference in our 'bad' system and your 'great' system?

The 'world leader' part...I'm just gonna ignore that, because that's just BS. A system that makes world innovates? Not really. Newton didn't invent formulas because the English system was that great, he was just smart. Same goes for Da Vinci, Edison, Wright Brothers etc. It's just because they were smart people (and creative).

Last but not least:
You keep saying that Europe is broke, I really don't get it. Where is your source?


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 23, 2010)

Hidoshi said:
			
		

> Uncle FEFL said:
> 
> 
> 
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His ass.

But seriously, I've already asked him that, but he's posted nothing.


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## Pliskron (Mar 23, 2010)

Euro area unemployment is 9.9%
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/...aspx?Symbol=EUR

Yea that's a great system. Currency is taking a dive. We also have states with really low unemployment you can't just cherry pick one state and say "look look" we're doing great. Spain, Greece, and Italy are all drowding in debt and threating to bring everyone else down with them. So there you go . Fucking Netherlands. What do like 10 people live there. Not really a big economy is it?


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## Hidoshi (Mar 23, 2010)

Hidoshi said:
			
		

> 5,7% ..*and the people that are unemployed aren't flat broke.* Isn't that a HUGE difference in our 'bad' system and your 'great' system?



I think you missed this part. Thanks to a social system people that are unemployed aren't flat broke and they get the chance to look for a new job.
Nice stereotypes btw, 10 people in the Netherlands. Bet you've never been outside of the US.





Look at this, dark green is the 'original' European Union, the lighter green are countries that joined in 2004 and lightest green is countries that joined in 2007. The countries that joined are poor countries and thanks to that the unemploment percentage rises. But thanks to the European Union these countries will all get richer and get more welfare.

And lol, you mentioned Italy, yeah one of the BEST European countries. Berlusconi FTW :sarcasm:


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 23, 2010)

Can someone PLEASE just block Pliskron from posting in here?  It's obvious he's either a slave to his parents, believes everything they say, is a troll, or just doesn't have a brain


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## Law (Mar 23, 2010)

Hidoshi said:
			
		

> I think you missed this part. Thanks to a social system people that are unemployed aren't flat broke and they get the chance to look for a new job.
> Nice stereotypes btw, 10 people in the Netherlands. Bet you've never been outside of the US.



10 people in the netherlands, 420 every day, yet still live better than they would if they were in America.


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## Pliskron (Mar 23, 2010)

Well you made my point for me. No one has to work. Everyone gets handouts. That's a shitty system in my book. I'd rather work and keep what I work for. Not float a bunch of bums. Sounds like a formula for running out of money. Oh Greece was giving handouts and now they're broke. Yeah good system. Everyone has money until there is no money left to hand out. I know rioting will solve it.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Euro area unemployment is 9.9%
> http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/...aspx?Symbol=EUR
> 
> Yea that's a great system. Currency is taking a dive. We also have states with really low unemployment you can't just cherry pick one state and say "look look" we're doing great. Spain, Greece, and Italy are all drowding in debt and threating to bring everyone else down with them. So there you go . Fucking Netherlands. What do like 10 people live there. Not really a big economy is it?



You can't look on Europe as one country or one system.  Sure there are a bunch of common laws but each country is still a country in it's own right, governed by it's own government.  It's not exactly like the state.  So comparing Europe as a whole to the USA is an incorrect analogy.  This'll be my last post though cos the last comment you make proves you're just a troll.  It's been fun though.


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## Pliskron (Mar 23, 2010)

Yeah I throw facts at you that you can't deal with so I'm a troll. That's convenient. It has been fun btw.


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Well you made my point for me. No one has to work. Everyone gets handouts. That's a shitty system in my book. I'd rather work and keep what I work for. Not float a bunch of bums. Sounds like a formula for running out of money. Oh Greece was giving handouts and now they're broke. Yeah good system. Everyone has money until there is no money left to hand out. I know rioting will solve it.


You have yet to respond to anything anyone has really said to you about the economic system itself. All you do is say "OK, look at this, then look at this, now look at this," no one really cares because everyone here knows you don't know what you're talking about. When a state (as in country) is in debt, of course their currency will drop a little bit. The Netherlands have had a pretty good economy ever since they became a country, so...

You and I both have no idea what it's like to live in either country, by the way. Your blatant insults to them, as well as your ignorance shouldn't be accepted here.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Yeah I throw facts at you that you can't deal with so I'm a troll. That's convenient. It has been fun btw.



You think saying 10 people living in the Netherlands is  throwing a fact at me?


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## thegame07 (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Yeah I throw facts at you that you can't deal with so I'm a troll. That's convenient. It has been fun btw.



He just hit you with something that was clearly a valid point and you clearly can't comment on it. You obviously know nothing of Europe  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





It's hilarious that you think a full Continent of Countries is all clones of each other and are run in the same way.


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## geoflcl (Mar 23, 2010)

I have a bad feeling about this thread... 

People, can't you see? We have not gathered here to argue about nationality, but for one thing:
To argue about game franchises and yell at noobs for not knowing who Waninkoko is!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Or, that's what I WOULD say if we weren't in the "Other Discussions" forum. Pretty wise, eh?

That being said, my philosophy is that we are all biased, and  all of our governments have their shortcomings.


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## Llama Riot (Mar 23, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Pliskron said:
> 
> 
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HUMOROUS EDIT OF THE WEEK


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## Pliskron (Mar 23, 2010)

Well I was taking about an economic union not political. In that regard it is the same. Like in the US all states share a common currency. When I pick up the wall street journal they talk about the euro zone not one country. Like it or not I can't invest on a particular states currency I have to buy euros. That said both Europe and the US are doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing except Germany. Trying to spend their way out of a hole. It doesn't work and that's why everyone's dealing with 7, 8 , and 9 percent unemployment. The governments are now sucking money out of the economy and perpetuating high unemployment. That's Keynesian economics 101 and it's proven to fail in the long term.

*Posts merged*



			
				Llama Riot said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
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lmfao


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## geoflcl (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Well I was taking about an economic union not political. In that regard it is the same. Like in the US all states share a common currency. When I pick up the wall street journal they talk about the euro zone not one country. Like it or not I can't invest on a particular states currency I have to buy euros. That said both Europe and the US are doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing except Germany. Trying to spend their way out of a hole. It doesn't work and that's why everyone's dealing with 7, 8 , and 9 percent unemployment. The governments are now sucking money out of the economy and perpetuating high unemployment. That's Keynesian economics 101 and it's proven to fail in the long term.



Fair enough. From an economic standpoint, we seem be digging holes and using the dirt to fill other holes... It's because the US is trying to fix the economy in a way that wouldn't unsettle its citizens, which is doomed to fail.

There's not really much the US can do at this point that wouldn't require a huge lifestyle adjustment. For instance, reverting to the Gold Standard would make it so our money is worth more, but it would GREATLY decrease the amount of money in circulation.


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## Pliskron (Mar 23, 2010)

geoflcl said:
			
		

> Pliskron said:
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At some point the Chinese are going to stop buying our securities and floating us then the treasury is going to have to raise interest rates to buy dollars back to shore up the currency and stave off runaway inflation. Higher interest rates are going to be another drag on the economy. Then in the next year you're going to see a national vat tax to try to get the exploding debt under control. What we need is painful fiscal discipline, and tax cuts. The way I see it we're in for a long shitty hall.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Well I was taking about an economic union not political. In that regard it is the same. Like in the US all states share a common currency. When I pick up the wall street journal they talk about the euro zone not one country. Like it or not I can't invest on a particular states currency I have to buy euros. That said both Europe and the US are doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing except Germany. Trying to spend their way out of a hole. It doesn't work and that's why everyone's dealing with 7, 8 , and 9 percent unemployment. The governments are now sucking money out of the economy and perpetuating high unemployment. That's Keynesian economics 101 and it's proven to fail in the long term.



Then you need to read better papers because Britain still uses the Pound and Pence system.  If you try spending a Euro in most places, specially the more remote parts, they'll look at you funny and tell you to go to the bank to change it.  Like I said, we have a bunch of common laws but we're all still single countries.  The union does have a common parliament that sets common laws but these are usually seperate from how a country runs.  They're there more to dictate common funding, set boundaries, trade etc.  It's a complicated affair.  We still set our own policies though.

The high unemployment here is a whole big bag of tricks.  The UK has been digging itself into a hole for years because of an attempt to move to a more pure capitalism based system. National services were sold off which created competition but didn't really add to the employment as over time all companies downsized.  Lots of national companies have been bought out buy multi-nationals, shut down and moved overseas.  Lots of companies now outsource because it's alot cheaper.  The nation has become less educated, the less educated you are the narrower your field of unemployment.  The bigger corporations have out competed alot of smaller independently owned p[laces but not replaced the jobs.  Those are just some of the most basic reasons unemployment is high at the moment here.

In all honesty I think one of the problems of both countries is everybodies reluctance to pay taxes.  If you're home has a hole in the roof do you leave it and hope someone else pays for it or do you chalk up the cash?  You get it fixed don't you.  The problem is holding the government accountable for the spending and the way they pander to big business.  Look at the bank crisis, why the hell should the common guy have had to pay for idiotic spending by greedy bank owners and employees.  The governments should have just siezed the banks, put the money in themselves from the bail out.  The banks could have then been run for less profit and better policed by ombudsmen.  It would mean cheaper bank charges, and there'd be no bosses earning ridiculous amounts of cash for basically being fat, firing people to keep the bonuses up and well, running the banks into the ground.  As the bank system would still run at a profit, that profit could be used for both the upkeep of the bank system and the upkeep of country.


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## GreatZimkogway (Mar 23, 2010)

Pliskron said:
			
		

> Yeah I throw facts at you that you can't deal with so I'm a troll. That's convenient. It has been fun btw.



Yes, because someone who lives in the (biased)US *totally* knows more about the EU and Europe then someone living there.  Yeah.  Your logic makes sense.  Also, you've yet to give us a single, valid point about anything.  Meanwhile, we have a whole bunch of people, Europeons included, saying you're a complete right-wing moronic dumbfuck fear mongerer.  Get out of my topic now, please.

Then again, I'd wager the europeans understand the shit this country's in better then we do ourselves.  They aren't prone to being moronic, blind patriots, after all.


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## TrolleyDave (Mar 23, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Then again, I'd wager the europeans understand the shit this country's in better then we do ourselves.  They aren't prone to being moronic, blind patriots, after all.



I wouldn't go that far. lol  We've got a fair share, a couple of them are European Parliament members at this very moment.


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## Sterling (Mar 23, 2010)

Cool, my post floated under the radar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






Spoiler



No sarcasm in that either!


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## Uncle FEFL (Mar 23, 2010)

shinkukage09 said:
			
		

> Pliskron said:
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I don't know about the other posters, but I found your post to be subjective and much more informed than Pliskron's. Plus all our focus was on Pliskron mainly -with other smaller arguments on the side- so I guess it was under the radar.


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## Advi (Mar 23, 2010)

oh look a political thread with over 100 replies.



Spoiler


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## Panzer Tacticer (Mar 23, 2010)

I belong to another forum where the average IQ level is in general far enough up, that chances are you guys miiiight just be able to see it if you squint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And you know what, they can't post anything meritorious about politics either.

But I doubt that will get anyone to go back to discussing games and things they actually understand


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## BlueStar (Mar 23, 2010)

Sterl500 said:
			
		

> EDIT: OMG a photshopped Glen Beck picture. How much skill you have good sir.
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Uh... What?  In what way is it photoshopped?


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## Sterling (Mar 23, 2010)

BlueStar said:
			
		

> Sterl500 said:
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Hmm, really, it WASN'T photo shopped? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only time I saw that was when he was on set (only one time too), and that doesn't look like a set. :/


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## BlueStar (Mar 23, 2010)

Sterl500 said:
			
		

> BlueStar said:
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Taken from this vid I think

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gl...ecrets-revealed


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## altorn (Mar 23, 2010)

This thread can apply to every single country in the world that has mixed races. Not only USA.

shinkukage09, i get you're point that the USA is in the brink of desctruction but the fact that you're blaming specific groups of people is brainless/stereotypical as well.

Don't go blaming people for being racist or governments being bad and all. It all starts with a person's personal intent to change or even be concerned with other people even if there is no immediate "payment". 

I'm a migrant here in Canada and yeah, the outside looks sweet but I can almost see through people having conversations with other races, they're pretty much STILL anxious. Black people are still not fully accepted, and usually feared(why?). Filipinos are still filipinos, considered underlevel workers. Chinese, russians, etc.

If a person, whether a regular taxpayer or even the mayor of a city, is willing to fully embrace how the world change and mixed cultures is the way to survive, then there'll be no racism. If whites make fun of blacks, then blacks have their own way of making fun of whites.


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## BlueStar (Mar 24, 2010)

I have to say, US citizens who are against these kinds of changes because they don't like government spending need to look at how much of their tax money the government has been spending on healthcare in the current system during the Bush era.







Oh look, those evil-rest-of-the-world socialist countries are doing less big bad government spending on healthcare than the US has been doing in this supposed free market system.


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