# First-party Xbox Scorpio games will run at native 4K resolution



## CeeDee (Sep 19, 2016)

So the new thing is updated versions of existing consoles, it seems... 
New 3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio...

What next, NX is just a New Wii U, where the GamePad actually is portable?


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## RustInPeace (Sep 19, 2016)

CeeDee said:


> So the new thing is updated versions of existing consoles, it seems...
> New 3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio...
> 
> What next, NX is just a New Wii U, where the GamePad actually is portable?



Now that I think about it, NX could be a New Wii U. I don't know if they still think this, but they said originally NX would go along with the Wii U, and it's not meant to completely supplant it (the new Zelda game is coming to Wii U and NX after all). Basically Nintendo was doing the upgraded console thing before Sony and Microsoft jumped into it, dating back to 3DS -> New 3DS in late 2014 (Japan distribution before US got it). Also something I recently learned, Nintendo removed the headphone jack before Apple, the GBA SP. Hmmm.


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## mechagouki (Sep 19, 2016)

CeeDee said:


> So the new thing is updated versions of existing consoles, it seems...
> New 3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio...
> 
> What next, NX is just a New Wii U, where the GamePad actually is portable?



Project Scorpio is not an Xbox One, it's an entirely new console. It may well not be backwards compatible with XB1 or 360. The Xbox One S is Microsoft's updated XB1.

It really isn't a new thing, it's been happening one way or another since the 8-bit days.


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## CeeDee (Sep 19, 2016)

RustInPeace said:


> Now that I think about it, NX could be a New Wii U. I don't know if they still think this, but they said originally NX would go along with the Wii U, and it's not meant to completely supplant it (the new Zelda game is coming to Wii U and NX after all). Basically Nintendo was doing the upgraded console thing before Sony and Microsoft jumped into it, dating back to 3DS -> New 3DS in late 2014 (Japan distribution before US got it). Also something I recently learned, Nintendo removed the headphone jack before Apple, the GBA SP. Hmmm.


One thing's for sure, they won't call it a Wii U again. That name bombed horribly.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 19, 2016)

yeah right at what 15fps?! PURE BS. the only thing that can run native 4k perfectly is a 1080 and the scorpio DOES NOT have one


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## Deleted User (Sep 19, 2016)

Can't wait to see my 4K graphics as a powerpoint because they won't pack enough power in the thing for it to be close to a PC.

#GetAPC


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 19, 2016)

m$ lyin through their bucked teeth as usual.


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## IpsoFact0 (Sep 19, 2016)

LOL BULLSHIT!


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## Deleted User (Sep 19, 2016)

IpsoFact0 said:


> LOL BULLSHIT!


More like bull$hit. We all know people will eat this $$$$hit up


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## mechagouki (Sep 19, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> m$ lyin through their bucked teeth as usual.





> In simple terms, the graphics core will be more than capable of going toe-to-toe with today’s top-end graphics card – comparison, the brand-new Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 has 6.5TFLOPs of performance. By the time Scorpio launches, it’ll be equivalent of a mid-range PC in 2017, which is how most consoles tend to launch.



Source:http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/xbox-scorpio-release-date-specs-news-rumours-4k-vr


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## ih8ih8sn0w (Sep 19, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Project Scorpio is not an Xbox One, it's an entirely new console. It may well not be backwards compatible with XB1 or 360. The Xbox One S is Microsoft's updated XB1.
> 
> It really isn't a new thing, it's been happening one way or another since the 8-bit days.


Microsoft gave the xbone a 10 year lifetime before they would release a new console...


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## tech3475 (Sep 19, 2016)

MS could very well make the games run natively at 4k, whether they're any good because of compromises is another thing.


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## mechagouki (Sep 19, 2016)

ih8ih8sn0w said:


> Microsoft gave the xbone a 10 year lifetime before they would release a new console...



They also said that the Scorpio is not the successor to the Xbox one, but will exist along side it as part of an ongoing evolution that will no longer fit the console generation model.


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## Null-project (Sep 19, 2016)

So, this means that people with the base model of the ps4 and xbox I will end up with games that run like hyrule Warriors for the o3ds.


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## Deleted User (Sep 19, 2016)

steveo said:


> So, this means that people with the base model of the ps4 and xbox I will end up with games that run like hyrule Warriors for the o3ds.


But will scorpio games even be ABLE to run on Xbox One?


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## Armadillo (Sep 19, 2016)

PR fluff.

Did the same with the 360 at launch. All games 720p min, eventually made exceptions, eventually dropped it. Expect no difference here.


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## Jayro (Sep 19, 2016)

RustInPeace said:


> Also something I recently learned, Nintendo removed the headphone jack before Apple, the GBA SP. Hmmm.


They just bundled the audio out port with the power port, and sold a separate audio adapter cable, which should have came bundled with the system, but wasn't.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

What CPU/GPU/ram specs will Scorpio have?


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## dimmidice (Sep 19, 2016)

Jayro said:


> They just bundled the audio out port with the power port, and sold a separate audio adapter cable, which should have came bundled with the system, but wasn't.


So almost exactly what apple did then.


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## DiscostewSM (Sep 19, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> yeah right at what 15fps?! PURE BS. the only thing that can run native 4k perfectly is a 1080 and the scorpio DOES NOT have one


lol, I was just thinking 4K @ 15fps.


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 19, 2016)

CeeDee said:


> So the new thing is updated versions of existing consoles, it seems...
> New 3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio...
> 
> What next, NX is just a New Wii U, where the GamePad actually is portable?


It's genius really, incremental upgrades for the price of a brand new console generation. Upgradeable parts? Fuck you! Drop $400 more or else you're stuck with 720p and cinematic 15 fps, even though that outdated POS cost $400 barely a year ago!


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## mechagouki (Sep 19, 2016)

dimmidice said:


> So almost exactly what apple did then.


Nintendo put it right back when they released the GB Micro, I wonder if Apple will do the same.


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## FrozenDragon150 (Sep 19, 2016)

Welp, another pre-built, underpowered PC upgrade for the price of a full console.

What both Sony and MS are doing sickens me, seriously, at least fucking Nintendo is giving more than sheer hardware as a reason to upgrade to the N3DS.

This is money grubbing at it's finest. I'll keep my underpowered Nintendo consoles, at least these use the given hardware to the max for their games *shrugs*


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## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2016)

Ooh good for them, nothing like playing the same games before but with updated visuals, that's totally going to alter the experience that much more drastically than before


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## Subtle Demise (Sep 19, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Nintendo put it right back when they released the GB Micro, I wonder if Apple will do the same.


Not if their sales don't drop! People always say to vote with your wallet, but if the wealthy are buying into the decisions the rest of us despise, there's not a whole lot that can be done about it.


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## pbanj (Sep 19, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Project Scorpio is not an Xbox One, it's an entirely new console. It may well not be backwards compatible with XB1 or 360. The Xbox One S is Microsoft's updated XB1.
> 
> It really isn't a new thing, it's been happening one way or another since the 8-bit days.


umm have you ever read anything about the scorpio? they have already said all games for it will run on the other xbox ones and all the old games will run on it. maybe research before you speak


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## pbanj (Sep 19, 2016)

gbatemp derp


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## mechagouki (Sep 19, 2016)

Subtle Demise said:


> Not if their sales don't drop! People always say to vote with your wallet, but if the wealthy are buying into the decisions the rest of us despise, there's not a whole lot that can be done about it.



And people's decisions are so skewed by marketing and peer pressure. That said I'm yet to read any positive press about the missing socket, or those oh-so-expensive-and-easy-to-lose wireless airpods.

Microsoft's situation is interesting, they already sort of failed at the "better than the regular console" think with the XB1 Elite, but they can afford to pay for the best market research, so they must at least think scorpio is what some people want.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



pbanj said:


> umm have you ever read anything about the scorpio? they have already said all games for it will run on the other xbox ones and all the old games will run on it. maybe research before you speak


You got me there, I hadn't paid too much attention recently, I feel like when it was first announced they talked about it as a separate format.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

Pretty sure gtx 1070 can handle 4k 60 at low settings.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 19, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Source:http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/xbox-scorpio-release-date-specs-news-rumours-4k-vr


remember when they said the xbone could do perfect 1080p 60fps...look how that turned out!

i can tell you now how this won't be true because if it can do native 4k on par with the 1080 (LOL) than you can expect to pay around $1000 for the scorpio. they wouldn't be stupid enough to try and sell it at that price!



Spoiler: OR



they prob would 



i can't wait for this info to show up on IGN it will be a glorious battle to watch


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## vayanui8 (Sep 19, 2016)

if it is rendering at 4k it will be sacrificing other visual fidelity for it. 4k means nothing if you can't keep other settings enabled at the same time.


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## Xzi (Sep 19, 2016)

vayanui8 said:


> if it is rendering at 4k it will be sacrificing other visual fidelity for it. 4k means nothing if you can't keep other settings enabled at the same time.


Yeah I see it as very possible for Scorpio to get around 30 FPS in 4K if they drop quality settings to the lowest.  All that does is highlight the fact that the textures are lower res than the render resolution, though.  Ultimately I'd rather play in [email protected] and medium-high settings if I were primarily a console gamer.  Really surprised they don't just make that an advertising sticking point instead.



Yil said:


> Pretty sure gtx 1070 can handle 4k 60 at low settings.


Actually if you just turn off AA, which is unnecessary at 4K anyway, the GTX 1070 can max a lot of games and do [email protected]  Source: I has one and I play in 4K.


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## ov3rkill (Sep 19, 2016)

CeeDee said:


> So the new thing is updated versions of existing consoles, it seems...
> New 3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio...
> 
> What next, NX is just a New Wii U, where the GamePad actually is portable?



I like this thought... and maybe addressing some issues with online, portability, and performance.
It's more and more becoming like a PC except you'll have to buy the whole console.

PC Master Race. haha j/k


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## Exaltys (Sep 19, 2016)

How many people even have 4k TVs?


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## FrozenDragon150 (Sep 19, 2016)

Exaltys said:


> How many people even have 4k TVs?


This. 

Mainly hardcore PC gamers, which doesn't paint the native 4K resolution of the Scorpio in good light.


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## orcid (Sep 19, 2016)

Still the majority of games of the Scorpio could be upscaled, too. At least when the Scorpio won't get the same 3rd party support as the Wii U.


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## grossaffe (Sep 19, 2016)

I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Glyptofane (Sep 19, 2016)

No one can afford this type of shit. Sony and M$ can go to hell.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 19, 2016)

The resolution race is one of the lamest aspects of gaming, mostly because nobody seems to realise that we're at a point when pixel density does not translate to an appreciable increase in quality. Whether the Scorpio will be able to run games at native 4K or not is doubly irrelevant when people racing to the shops to get one sport shitty TV's. I'd like to remind everyone that the original Xbox 1 did 720p and 1080i. You're all acting as if resolution was some major factor here when it's not - it explicitly says that it will be a target resolution for first-party titles, and first-party titles are optimised for the platform for God's sake. Drop the detail enough and of course it'll do 4K, except nobody should care because it's the level of detail that improves visual quality beyond the Full HD mark, not the resolution. If you take a 720p game from the original Xbox and put it side by side with a modern game running at 720p, you can see the difference immediately, so clearly the resolution is not the be-all-end-all factor.


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## chartube12 (Sep 19, 2016)

mechagouki said:


> Project Scorpio is not an Xbox One, it's an entirely new console. It may well not be backwards compatible with XB1 or 360. The Xbox One S is Microsoft's updated XB1.
> 
> It really isn't a new thing, it's been happening one way or another since the 8-bit days.


 
You didn't watch E3. They comfirmed new consoles going forward would continue to play the previous games and only a % of new games wouldn't play on the previous console. For all intended proposes, generations are now dead. Each new consoles from microsoft is going to be an upgraded xbox one. Yes they will get exclusives that will grow in number over time. Eventually you will have to get a new one if you want to play newer games, just like PC gamers have to get new graphics cards. I won't be surprised if at some point if one of the newer xbox one models (maybe starting with  scropio) will have a removalable gpu, cpu and ram on a single card. Buy a new card at a discounted price over buying a completely new unit.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 19, 2016)

chartube12 said:


> Yes they will get exclusives that will grow in number over time.


what exclusives...every xbox game released from here on will also be on the pc there is no more exclusives


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## The Catboy (Sep 19, 2016)

Not trolling, but how many games are actually made by Microsoft?


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## Axido (Sep 19, 2016)

To that person demanding a GTX 1080 for 4K:

I'm good with my 970 and can play most of the recent games in 4K at high to max settings (without AA or just with FXAA, since it doesn't really matter that much at this resolution) and get an average of more than 30 fps. Since this is the framerate that consoles normally aim for, I'm sure that Scorpio can handle this.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 19, 2016)

grab your popcorn guys!


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## DinohScene (Sep 19, 2016)

CeeDee said:


> So the new thing is updated versions of existing consoles, it seems...
> New 3DS, PS4 Pro, Xbox One Scorpio...
> 
> What next, NX is just a New Wii U, where the GamePad actually is portable?



I'm going back to traditional gaming.
Who wants to play Dungeons and Dragons for the next decade?


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Yeah I see it as very possible for Scorpio to get around 30 FPS in 4K if they drop quality settings to the lowest.  All that does is highlight the fact that the textures are lower res than the render resolution, though.  Ultimately I'd rather play in [email protected] and medium-high settings if I were primarily a console gamer.  Really surprised they don't just make that an advertising sticking point instead.
> 
> 
> Actually if you just turn off AA, which is unnecessary at 4K anyway, the GTX 1070 can max a lot of games and do [email protected]  Source: I has one and I play in 4K.


Gtx 1070 has the same teraflop rating as Scorpio.
Another thing to consider is this is the same as 5.85 Maxwell fp32 vs 6.14 Polaris/ Vega fp32, so Scorpio has really good horse power and amd is somewhat more advanced in some areas. That and optimization too.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DinohScene said:


> I'm going back to traditional gaming.
> Who wants to play Dungeons and Dragons for the next decade?


Why not pong?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also about rx 490: 4096 sp at 1.2 Ghz at 200w. Scorpio, if at 4096 sp, only need a clock of 0.75Ghz, which is 62.5%. There is a lot of room for power optimization.


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## Supster131 (Sep 19, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Not trolling, but how many games are actually made by Microsoft?


There's a few.
Er.. Halo, Gears of War... uh.
Actually, that's all they're known for lmao.

There's this, I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Studios_video_games


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## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2016)

Supster131 said:


> There's a few.
> Er.. Halo, Gears of War... uh.
> Actually, that's all they're known for lmao.
> 
> There's this, I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Studios_video_games



But them being in 4K will make them exponentially better somehow? Most people don't even have 4K TVs.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> But them being in 4K will make them exponentially better somehow? Most people don't even have 4K TVs.


Bro games will never be good.


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## BurningDesire (Sep 19, 2016)

Whats all the fuss about 4K? 8K is already available!


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## Haider Raza (Sep 19, 2016)

Lots of challenges going on! Xbox scorpio might give some discount then ps4 pro.


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## The Catboy (Sep 19, 2016)

Supster131 said:


> There's a few.
> Er.. Halo, Gears of War... uh.
> Actually, that's all they're known for lmao.
> 
> There's this, I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Studios_video_games


And here I thought Sony games were forgettable. That's a lot of games that I've clearly forgotten.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> And here I thought Sony games were forgettable. That's a lot of games that I've clearly forgotten.


If published count then State of decay is pretty nice. One of those fps where death have consequences. Though not the best representation of large scale creature invasions.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 19, 2016)

those ign fanboys never disappoint what a great day i had non stop laughing!


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## Supster131 (Sep 19, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> But them being in 4K will make them exponentially better somehow? Most people don't even have 4K TVs.


I never said they would be better in 4K, I was just answering her question


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## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2016)

Supster131 said:


> I never said they would be better in 4K, I was just answering her question



Right, but there are some people who legitimately think having the same game they played before in 4K will make it exponentially better


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> Right, but there are some people who legitimately think having the same game they played before in 4K will make it exponentially better


4k makes a ton of difference if rts, and sometimes allow greater draw distance.


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## the_randomizer (Sep 19, 2016)

Yil said:


> 4k makes a ton of difference if rts, and sometimes allow greater draw distance.




But  not everyone has, nor has the funds to get a 4K TV, and won't be able to for some time. If people just buy a console only for a resolution update and nothing more, then that's just...a waste of money IMO.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

the_randomizer said:


> But  not everyone has, nor has the funds to get a 4K TV, and won't be able to for some time. If people just buy a console only for a resolution update and nothing more, then that's just...a waste of money IMO.


Then visual improvements will still be good. But that rarely affect gameplay.


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## grossaffe (Sep 19, 2016)

aren't 4k TVs more affordable now than HDTVs were back when the PS3/XBox 360 came out?  Pretty sure you can get a 50" Vizio 4K for something like $400.  I spent that much on a 32" 720p TV well after the launch of the 360 and PS3.


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## CathyRina (Sep 19, 2016)

People pretending here like if Nintendo hasn't started these mid-gen upgrades.

Honestly I don't care for 4K. I don't care about resolution at all as long as the game's frame rate doesn't drop below 30.
I wished both Sony and Microsoft would rather use this power to give us 60FPS gaming on consoles. I know Rise of the tomb raider will have 3 different options to choose from on the PS4Pro, increased res @30, 1080p60 and 1080p30 + extra details.
That's the best approach to the mid gen upgrades I've seen so far. If more developers would share freely what benefits these upgrades bring I might consider getting one but most games that I care about on PS4 already run at 1080p60.
I really hope Nintendo won't screw up the NX although in their true fashion they probably will.


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## CathyRina (Sep 19, 2016)

(accidental double post due to bug)


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## TotalInsanity4 (Sep 19, 2016)

Yil said:


> 4k makes a ton of difference if rts, and sometimes allow greater draw distance.


A higher resolution wouldn't offer a greater draw distance; it might actually do just the opposite


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## CathyRina (Sep 19, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> A higher resolution wouldn't offer a greater draw distance; it might actually do just the opposite


it does in those lazy HD remasters of 2D topdown RTS where nobody bothered to adjust the assets to higher resolution and just give you a wider view angle.


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## Armadillo (Sep 19, 2016)

XrosBlader821 said:


> People pretending here like if Nintendo hasn't started these mid-gen upgrades.
> 
> Honestly I don't care for 4K. I don't care about resolution at all as long as the game's frame rate doesn't drop below 30.
> I wished both Sony and Microsoft would rather use this power to give us 60FPS gaming on consoles. I know Rise of the tomb raider will have 3 different options to choose from on the PS4Pro, increased res @30, 1080p60 and 1080p30 + extra details.
> ...



1080/60 is just a target, not locked . Devs already said it won't hit it all the time, but will only say >45. So pointless.

If I had to guess based on the pc version. It'll be 60fps in the smaller areas and <60 in Soviet base and Geothermal Valley, those are huge parts of the game, so will probably spend most of the time <60.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> A higher resolution wouldn't offer a greater draw distance; it might actually do just the opposite


Well drawing distance does use more horsepower, bt you can potentially stuff more details.


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## CathyRina (Sep 19, 2016)

Armadillo said:


> 1080/60 is just a target, not locked . Devs already said it won't hit it all the time, but will only say >45. So pointless.
> 
> If I had to guess based on the pc version. It'll be 60fps in the smaller areas and <60 in Soviet base and Geothermal Valley, those are huge parts of the game, so will probably spend most of the time <60.


I think >45 is still more desireable than 4K30 or more likely less than 30.
I really don't get why so many devs neglect 60 FPS gaming on console and at the same time complain that games with such high fidelity are just too expensive. Sounds like a self inflicted wound.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

Armadillo said:


> 1080/60 is just a target, not locked . Devs already said it won't hit it all the time, but will only say >45. So pointless.
> 
> If I had to guess based on the pc version. It'll be 60fps in the smaller areas and <60 in Soviet base and Geothermal Valley, those are huge parts of the game, so will probably spend most of the time <60.


Wait isn't complexity of stages not a factor on fps when not looking at them?


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## tbb043 (Sep 19, 2016)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I really don't get why so many devs neglect 60 FPS gaming on console



In the old days it was because higher resolution = prettier screenshots, but 60FPS doesn't

But now with print being dead and online videos being the main thing, it is kinda weird. Just stuck in their ways, I suppose.


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## flame1234 (Sep 19, 2016)

XrosBlader821 said:


> I think >45 is still more desireable than 4K30 or more likely less than 30.


>30 and <60 means stutter.
60 fps should be prioritized but more generally bad stuff happens when the developers don't get to decide, especially when it comes to stuff like graphic engines. 
Sony is taking the right approach here, where the developer makes all decisions. It will be up to reviewers to communicate the PS4 Pro difference on a per-game basis.
Sony says "will not be noticeable in most situations." They're Sony marketing, they have to say that. Xbox is releasing later so of course it will be more powerful.
It has been one big messaging war ever since E3, it's not over yet, and it might not ever be over, we'll have to see.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

flame1234 said:


> >30 and <60 means stutter.
> 60 fps should be prioritized but more generally bad stuff happens when the developers don't get to decide, especially when it comes to stuff like graphic engines.
> Sony is taking the right approach here, where the developer makes all decisions. It will be up to reviewers to communicate the PS4 Pro difference on a per-game basis.
> Sony says "will not be noticeable in most situations." They're Sony marketing, they have to say that. Xbox is releasing later so of course it will be more powerful.
> It has been one big messaging war ever since E3, it's not over yet, and it might not ever be over, we'll have to see.


Well there is the Freesync, but most tv don't have that feature.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 19, 2016)

Yil said:


> Well there is the Freesync, but most tv don't have that feature.



Afaik, consoles aren't capable of Freesync. Freesync is an AMD technology available only on discrete AMD desktop GPUs. Nvidia's equivalent is G-Sync. Monitors need to have hardware-level support for Freesync or Gsync, so existing monitors and TVs won't do.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> Afaik, consoles aren't capable of Freesync. Freesync is an AMD technology available only on discrete AMD desktop GPUs. Nvidia's equivalent is G-Sync. Monitors need to have hardware-level support for Freesync or Gsync, so existing monitors and TVs won't do.


Did Sony specifically state that Free-sync is not available? But yes all the tv will need replacement.


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## HaloEliteLegend (Sep 19, 2016)

Yil said:


> Did Sony specifically state that Free-sync is not available? But yes all the tv will need replacement.



Not that I know, but doesn't Freesync require new graphics hardware to run? Perhaps the PS4 Pro will have it, but the normal PS4's hardware seems a bit dated to support Freesync. Also, there's not really any TVs that support Freesync. Monitors, yes, but not TVs, so they don't really need Freesync. Feel free to prove me wrong tho!


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> Not that I know, but doesn't Freesync require new graphics hardware to run? Perhaps the PS4 Pro will have it, but the normal PS4's hardware seems a bit dated to support Freesync. Also, there's not really any TVs that support Freesync. Monitors, yes, but not TVs, so they don't really need Freesync. Feel free to prove me wrong tho!


It's coming. By the time of Scorpio this will be less of a problem.


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## Deleted User (Sep 19, 2016)

I don't even like 4k. The high pixel density makes my eyes burn.


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## Armadillo (Sep 19, 2016)

Yil said:


> Wait isn't complexity of stages not a factor on fps when not looking at them?



Geothermal valley and Soviet base are massive open areas. Unless they completely murder the draw distance or lod, there is always a lot of stuff being rendered in those areas.


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

Armadillo said:


> Geothermal valley and Soviet base are massive open areas. Unless they completely murder the draw distance or lod, there is always a lot of stuff being rendered in those areas.


So it's not a place with lots of guards with complex AI? Cause it is weird that advanced ai uses much of cpu, or collision.


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## DarthDub (Sep 19, 2016)

Oh, boy! I'm ready to not be able to read the text in video games cause the pixel density is higher!


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## Yil (Sep 19, 2016)

DarthDub said:


> Oh, boy! I'm ready to not be able to read the text in video games cause the pixel density is higher!


Seriously though text are broken initially on 2k+ screen with win 10.


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## Luckkill4u (Sep 19, 2016)

Yil said:


> Seriously though text are broken initially on 2k+ screen with win 10.


My 2.5k ultrawide monitor is completely fine with text. Maybe the clear type technology isn't working properly on your PC. 

The biggest problem with 4k is its sub par refresh rate. An 80" 4K TV isn't really designed for high action gaming but a 40" 4K TV might not see the same problems.


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 19, 2016)

Pixel density doesn't make text harder to read.
It is the other way around actually, way easier on the eyes.
Small fonts make text harder to read. But if you have bigger pixel density you don't use the same amount of pixels unless you're a fucking cunt.

Hell, I'm writing this from my S7. Do you know what pixel density does this thing have? Do you think the text is hard on the eyes on this thing? Do you think that game developers will get it wrong when the asses behind android got it right? Nonsense.

Also, 4k TVs are cheap as fuck and look great (with 4k movies at least). You sure can get a great looking 55" 4K TV for under 1000.


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## duffmmann (Sep 19, 2016)

As someone who has spent some time in front of a 4K TV with a 4K blu-ray playing, I have to say, meh.  Yeah I suppose it is nicer than 1080p, but I'd be lying if I said that the step up is mind blowing.  It's great that we can get video games running like that for these nice TVs, but its far from becoming a deal breaker if the system I'm playing on is incapable of 4K output.


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## flame1234 (Sep 19, 2016)

Cheap yes but installed base is low like 8%. In a year it will be around double that.
The reason to get PS4 Pro or Nextbox is for a better experience at 1080p, because most people don't have 4k TVs (less than 1 in 10). I've every reason to believe these will indeed offer a better experience at 1080p. It will finally allow 1080p/60 in most games, which gamers have wanted for awhile.


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## Mystic Shadow (Sep 19, 2016)

I just want to be able to play 1080p 60fps on my games I honestly give two shits about 4k.


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## Null-project (Sep 20, 2016)

I will say this a speture 43 inch 4k 60 frame per second cause around 230 new at Walmart.com.


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## Wolfy (Sep 20, 2016)

Bladexdsl said:


> yeah right at what 15fps?! PURE BS. the only thing that can run native 4k perfectly is a 1080 and the scorpio DOES NOT have one



Perhaps the rumored 1090? :3

*wink wink nudge nudge elbow elbow cough cough stab stab blood blood*


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 20, 2016)

well expect to pay $1500 for the scorpio than!


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## netovsk (Sep 20, 2016)

Yay to running faux-16bit indies in 4k

So are we getting 4k remasters of hd remasters, fully priced as they should?

Get sheep in line to sell them a console designed for a big 4k tv they dont even have in the first place!


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 20, 2016)

In case people forgot... Project Scorpio is literally an upgraded Xbox One. Stronger specs and faster. All Xbox One games will work, and so far we know that all Scorpio titles will see a release on the one as well.


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## Xzi (Sep 20, 2016)

Yil said:


> Gtx 1070 has the same teraflop rating as Scorpio.


TFlops alone mean nothing.  There's no way real performance will equal up to a GTX 1070 in the Scorpio or they'd have to price it way higher than people would be okay with.



netovsk said:


> Yay to running faux-16bit indies in 4k
> 
> So are we getting 4k remasters of hd remasters, fully priced as they should?
> 
> Get sheep in line to sell them a console designed for a big 4k tv they dont even have in the first place!


Lol yup, spot on.  Exclusively for console gamers who don't realize these games all play in 4K already on PC without having to pay anything more.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 20, 2016)

Xzi said:


> these games all play in 4K already on PC without having to pay anything more.


and don't forget the FREE online


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## sarkwalvein (Sep 20, 2016)

Xzi said:


> TFlops alone mean nothing.  There's no way real performance will equal up to a GTX 1070 in the Scorpio or they'd have to price it way higher than people would be okay with.
> 
> 
> Lol yup, spot on.  Exclusively for console gamers who don't realize these games all play in 4K already on PC without having to pay anything more.


Not any PC.
You need HDMI 2.0
Perhaps an inexpensive Intel GPU with HDMI 2.0, yes. But not any PC.


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## Xzi (Sep 21, 2016)

sarkwalvein said:


> Not any PC.
> You need HDMI 2.0
> Perhaps an inexpensive Intel GPU with HDMI 2.0, yes. But not any PC.


Well, 3-4 years is ancient in the tech world, and that's how long ago 2.0 was introduced.  It all depends on how much money you're willing to sink into your display, whether it be for PC or consoles.  Even forgetting HDR, you can get near-flawless blacks with the right TV or monitor.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 21, 2016)

Of course TFLOP's matter, what are you talking about, @Xzi? What kind of calculations do you think GPU's perform? Floating point. As far as performance goes, it's actually likely that you can reach higher performance with comparable hardware on console due to shortened API's and simplified interfaces. Need I remind anyone that the 360/PS3 stayed relevant for over a decade with woefully underpowered guts compared to high-performance PC's, or even mid-range ones? If the two GPU's have comparable computational power and there's no bottleneck on the CPU or the bus, a console will perform better 10 out of 10 times because it's designed to eliminate overhead, unlike a PC which is designed to be a multipurpose device.


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## Xzi (Sep 21, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> Of course TFLOP's matter, what are you talking about, @Xzi?


It matters, but it's only one of several metrics that matters.  It's impossible to judge performance based on TFlops alone, and it's impossible to know if its even reaching its advertised TFlops without testing.

As for the rest, I'm pretty sure Xbox One is just using a modified Windows 10.  You can strip some of the guts out of it, but at the end of the day, Win10 is pretty efficient anyway, and modern consoles are also multipurpose devices.  You might see a performance gain of 1% to 2% over a PC with comparable hardware, but the fact that you can overclock the PC but you can't do the same with the console kinda negates that effect.


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## DHall243 (Sep 22, 2016)

Theyre releasing Forza games on PC now, as long as that continues, ill never buy another home console.


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## Bladexdsl (Sep 22, 2016)

consoles are pretty much dead this pretty much proves it now they are trying to make them exactly like pc's xbox even gave up and now put all their games on pc. except for the nx but no one knows whatever the fuck that is!


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2016)

Xzi said:


> It matters, but it's only one of several metrics that matters.  It's impossible to judge performance based on TFlops alone, and it's impossible to know if its even reaching its advertised TFlops without testing.
> 
> As for the rest, I'm pretty sure Xbox One is just using a modified Windows 10.  You can strip some of the guts out of it, but at the end of the day, Win10 is pretty efficient anyway, and modern consoles are also multipurpose devices.  You might see a performance gain of 1% to 2% over a PC with comparable hardware, but the fact that you can overclock the PC but you can't do the same with the console kinda negates that effect.


It uses the Windows kernel, among other things, which doesn't mean that it's not more efficient. The hardware and software has been modified for the specific purpose of gaming which gives it the edge, you can easily observe it by comparing performance of similarly speced machines.


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> The hardware and software has been modified for the specific purpose of gaming


Has it though?  The Xbox One runs apps and a web browser and pretty much everything else.  I mean yeah, the software is modified for the specific purpose of gaming, when the software in question is a game.  That's true across all platforms, however.  The hardware I don't see as able to outperform a comparable PC, once again because you have to take overclocking and hell, even superior cooling into consideration.  Beyond that it's just the silicon lottery for individual components going into each system.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 22, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Has it though?  The Xbox One runs apps and a web browser and pretty much everything else.  I mean yeah, the software is modified for the specific purpose of gaming, when the software in question is a game.  That's true across all platforms, however.  The hardware I don't see as able to outperform a comparable PC, once again because you have to take overclocking and hell, even superior cooling into consideration.  Beyond that it's just the silicon lottery for individual components going into each system.


It's extremely easy to verify - just compare real-life performance to a comparable PC.

The PS3 had "a web browser and other stuff" too, and yet you'll never manage to find a PC with 256MB RAM, 256MB VRAM, a 230 GFLOPs CPU and a GeForce 7-series (the RSX Sythesizer is based on the G70 architecture with elements of G71) GPU that runs GTA5 at a playable speed. You just won't. Having "stuff" running in addition to games is irrelevant as that software is also optimised for the platform, which is easy considering the fact that every console is very much identical besides the drive.

A similar comparison could be made with the PS4 or the XBO, you have equivalent architectures available on PC and benchmarking a close clone wouldn't be difficult. That way you can realistically measure the benefits of all the customisations (modified PCI Express protocol, shortened API's, embedded memory (XBO), memory sharing etc.) - it's all measurable, despite not being able to run the same benchmark on all of the machines.

Just the fact that it runs the kernel alone without all the overhead of a PC-style OS will give it an edge, it doesn't take an experiment to know that.


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## Xzi (Sep 22, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> It's extremely easy to verify - just compare real-life performance to a comparable PC.
> 
> The PS3 had "a web browser and other stuff" too, and yet you'll never manage to find a PC with 256MB RAM, 256MB VRAM, a 230 GFLOPs CPU and a GeForce 7-series (the RSX Sythesizer is based on the G70 architecture with elements of G71) GPU that runs GTA5 at a playable speed. You just won't. Having "stuff" running in addition to games is irrelevant as that software is also optimised for the platform, which is easy considering the fact that every console is very much identical besides the drive.
> 
> ...


If we're walking back to the PS3 era, then sure, that's a unique architecture.  Modern consoles do have their own OSes with their own overhead, though, which is what allows you to multitask and run apps in the background while playing games.  Xbox One is using DX11-DX12 just as a PC would.  Current-gen consoles are barely one step away from being PCs themselves.  Microsoft and Sony talk about 4K HDR like it's some miraculous new discovery but Nvidia already did that with the Shield TV and it's like 1/4th the size of Sony and MS' consoles.  Not to mention about half the price.


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## DHall243 (Sep 23, 2016)

Xbox team has already confirmed once before that the XBOX one dashboard is built from Windows 10 and supports DirectX 12, they thought DX12 was gonna be a game changer, when most people couldnt get their programs to work.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 23, 2016)

Xzi said:


> If we're walking back to the PS3 era, then sure, that's a unique architecture.  Modern consoles do have their own OSes with their own overhead, though, which is what allows you to multitask and run apps in the background while playing games.  Xbox One is using DX11-DX12 just as a PC would.  Current-gen consoles are barely one step away from being PCs themselves.  Microsoft and Sony talk about 4K HDR like it's some miraculous new discovery but Nvidia already did that with the Shield TV and it's like 1/4th the size of Sony and MS' consoles.  Not to mention about half the price.


The PS3's architecture is only unique because of the SPE's, the main core which did all the heavy lifting, the PPE, was a PowerPC derivative and few companies other than Naughty Dog utilised SPE's efficiently. The CELL is unique because it's custom-built, that's about it. If you think that Sony made a custom OS from the ground up for that system, you're deluding yourself - the PS3 used modified FreeBSD, so a flavour of UNIX. The days when consoles would run fully proprietary software are over, there are too many library dependencies to worry about. Running the Windows kernel on the Xbox One or the FreeBSD kernel on the PS3/4/Vita allows for simple engine porting, which is a prerequisite for multiplatform development. As for HDR, I have no opinion on it as I'm not a colour depth freak - I can barely see the difference.


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## Xzi (Sep 24, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> The CELL is unique because it's custom-built, that's about it.


Exactly, so where you'd get a "comparable" PC I have no idea, I'm not even sure which components could be considered comparable to the PS3.



Foxi4 said:


> If you think that Sony made a custom OS


I don't think that, I'm just saying that even last-gen consoles DID have OSes, and with an OS always comes some overhead.  Possible that it's less overhead than what a PC OS comes with, but doubtful that it makes a _significant_ difference in performance.  5% on the high end would be my guess.  Whereas you can of course get anywhere from 5% to 10% performance increases with overclocking, all depending on the individual GPU.


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## Foxi4 (Sep 24, 2016)

Xzi said:


> Exactly, so where you'd get a "comparable" PC I have no idea, I'm not even sure which components could be considered comparable to the PS3.
> 
> I don't think that, I'm just saying that even last-gen consoles DID have OSes, and with an OS always comes some overhead.  Possible that it's less overhead than what a PC OS comes with, but doubtful that it makes a _significant_ difference in performance.  5% on the high end would be my guess.  Whereas you can of course get anywhere from 5% to 10% performance increases with overclocking, all depending on the individual GPU.


Any CPU with comparable computational power would work as an equivalent. As for the overhead, it's actually huge - the MinWin (Minimal Windows) kernel runs with only 40MB of memory, the whole installation requires about 1GB idling, let alone operating - that should tell you everything you need to know. Just the shell alone is a big resource hog since it's accelerated these days, and that she'll is simplified to just tiles on the XBO. Anywho, we're unnecessarily taking over the thread, my point is that consoles require less overhead and use limited resources more efficiently as a general rule, and I don't think that's debatable in any way. I am fully confident that the Scorpio will be able to run in 4K at 25-30FPS and moderate level of detail, and that's all anyone could really ask for from a console. It's also sufficient for VR at 2x1080p at 50-60FPS for that matter, which is also acceptable. That's my opinion though, not gospel, so don't treat it as such.


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## Xzi (Sep 25, 2016)

Foxi4 said:


> I am fully confident that the Scorpio will be able to run in 4K at 25-30FPS and moderate level of detail, and that's all anyone could really ask for from a console.


All that's really necessary for a console is [email protected], and running at max settings would be a nice bonus.  I just can't believe Sony/MS didn't manage to achieve that with their first iterations of these consoles.  That makes the second iteration somewhat of a necessary upgrade, and that's a pain in the ass for anyone who bought the first.



Foxi4 said:


> It's also sufficient for VR at 2x1080p at 50-60FPS for that matter, which is also acceptable.


I wonder if MS will be partnering with Vive/Rift or if they'll be making their own VR hardware to compete with Sony.  Re-projection isn't too bad, but it will cause more motion sickness than running at 90 FPS without it.


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