# EU Migration Crisis (Turkey/Idlib)



## notimp (Feb 29, 2020)

As of today turkey opened their border to greece for migrants to be able to cross over, and even moved (drove) some of them into the border region to increase political pressure.

Result will be more talks and more money for turkey, probably. Also talks with russia over Idlib. Maybe more.

Daily border crossings today are about 30k people, currently greek military is pushing back refugees (using teargas, ..) into 'no mans land' which is in violation of universal human rights (Geneva Refugee Convention of 1951), to curb the flow. The center left doesnt expect this to be the new normal yet. 

More information should you need it:
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/migr...uerkischer.694.de.html?dram:article_id=471394

They are interviewing the architect of the Turkey/EU migration deal in 2016. Its in german, run it through google translate if you have to. 

If specific questions arise ask away, I can translate.


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## notimp (Mar 5, 2020)

A conservative newspaper in my parts of the world features an expert on turkish military (Gareth Jenkins) saying that the current situation is a distraction play, Turkey has thousands of troops in Syria without air support and would have to annex part of it for long term stability interests, and therefore is believed to take some radical action in the coming weeks.

Roughly this:
https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/analysis-russia-turkey-agreement-on-syria-843944.html


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## notimp (Mar 5, 2020)

Ah, nevermind, russia just pronounced a truce with turkey over Idlib.  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ceasefire-moscow-meeting-200305172818996.html

Diplomacy prevailed. 

edit: Bad news, experts talk about this being a time limited consensus already. (Because of still unresolved strategic differences.)


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## notimp (Mar 6, 2020)

So how do you get the public in greece to not say anything, when their military and police is breaking greek and EU and international law at the greek border?

You let the main religious leader of greece, archbishop Ieronymos II hold a mess near the border region Kastanies, where he says the following:

"We are proud of you. Proud of your fight. This isnt just about the military, not just about greece, our european friends should also be here - our partners and allies. The borders we should all protect, together."

src: 
(German source (dubed over the video) snippet starts at about  10:15)


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## UltraDolphinRevolution (Mar 10, 2020)

It´s crazy that even Von der Leyen (a German) praises the Greek reaction to attempted border crossings. These are the pictures the Germans feared in 2015 and now many politicians either accept or even encourage it. Quite shocking, to be honest.


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## ghjfdtg (Mar 10, 2020)

They have no choice as sad as it may sound. The crisis 2015 caused a huge boost for the right parties and if they let that happen again you can imagine what will happen.


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## Hanafuda (Mar 10, 2020)

notimp said:


> So how do you get the public in greece to not say anything, when their military and police is breaking greek and EU and international law at the greek border?



EU and international law regarding what? refugees? They're not refugees anymore.

The articles I read say Turkey has been "hosting" them. 3.6 million of them. Some for 6-7 years or more. Wikipedia has a graph that shows the influx of persons beginning in 2012 and peaking in June 2019. They've been in Turkey a while now, they've escaped whatever threat they claim existed in their home country, they're not refugees anymore. They're residents of Turkey. 

How come we never hear about the generosity of Saudi Arabia or Qatar or U.A.E., some of the wealthiest per capita nations in the world, in taking in Islamic refugees? Is it because they're already muslim and don't need invading?


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## notimp (Mar 10, 2020)

You dont know that at the point where you are holding them off with teargas at the border. You can assume that, but thats not enough. Currently you (we) are not following a legal process here. Thats what in violation of pretty much all laws means.

Also Idlib was recent, and there have been people replaced. And the legal status of people within turkey, you dont know as well, because most of them dont get any path to become a turkish citizen either, which comes with no work permits, which means they are in limbo, most of them for quite a while now.

Not saying we should open borders in this situation, just stating what should be obvious.


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## Deleted User (Mar 10, 2020)

They don't have the right to enter countries illegally, so the Greeks are doing the right thing to block them. What gives them the right to enter a country without having the authorization to while others have to? None. Most of them aren't even actual refugees, but most already know it.


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## notimp (Mar 10, 2020)

Boesy said:


> They don't have the right to enter countries illegally, so the Greeks are doing the right thing to block them.


I dont know how to tell you this any other way but straight, but you are wrong.

Entirely wrong.

You cant identify if a migrant is legal or illegal, while aiming at them over the barrel of a teargas gun, preventing them entry.

What greece is doing is entirely illegal.

see:
https://www.euronews.com/video/2020...-legal-basis-after-greece-suspends-asylum-law
(The link this refers too (full article) currently leads to a malformed site, but you should still be able to read the article still, by clicking thorugh.)

Its just a matter of where no plaintiff, there no legal/political case. As every country in the EU has interest in migrants not being used as real life tokens in a political play, there is no political pressure on greece to do anything other than what it is doing currently.

How greece deals with it in terms of 'curbing' their legal system I dont know (political directives, probably).

Also could you please at least check your opinions, if you are openly confronting a statement? I try my hardest to not have this become facebook, where the 'right emotion' always wins.


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