# [POLL] Have you had Covid-19 before?



## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 2, 2021)

Covid-19 is a disease that arrived to stay.
People often thinks that it's "just a flu", and that made me wonder if any of you guys has had it before.

*I've had it.*




Today I read that there's 4 new variations of the virus throughout the world. And that's not surprising as stational flu evolves every year or so, which is why every year you should get vaccinated against.

*Covid-19 will be the exact same as the flu.*
I mean, I'm not an expert... but  regardless of how much we take care of ourselves, we will get it eventually at some point of our lives.
And then, you'll be able to say: _"It's just another flu"_

So, *out of curiosity, *I'd like to know:
Have you had Covid-19 before?


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## Alexander1970 (Feb 2, 2021)

Yes,back in 2013...

- over 40° Fever for 2 - 3 Days
- very difficulty breathing combined with
- dry Cough (so hard that me Head is hurting from that and I almost lost consciousness a few times...)
- Loss of smell and taste
- yes of course I was tired,after that 3 Days....
...slept another 3 Days without getting really awake,only to change clothes and go pee..

And..oh god..no Testing......no Vaccination....no Doctor...
...only cold compresses,Cloves and Violet Oil for Pain relief...and the Will to get well...

Lost a lot of Weight because of sweating like a Pig...





But back then it wasn't made of a total idiot show...

But wait,no that was no Covid.....


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## subcon959 (Feb 2, 2021)

You should add an option for never been tested as I expect that's what most people would be unless they just guess based on symptoms.


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 2, 2021)

I clicked YES by mistake because I thought Yes on the top and No on the bottom as usually but you used NO on the top. Jeez.

Test twice and negative because one of them was just hearing test. 

Then I had an ear infection and went there and they had to test me. Negative.

No. I am in good healthy with no issues but I am very strict about viruses. I washed my hands "ALL THE TIME" with alcohol and I always keep away from people. I dont go out very much because of COVID-19 so I rather not until its pass.

I also wear washable mask. I wash it in the laundry once a week and every three days I spray it with both sides with an alcohol and hang it dry for next day to wear it.

When I come home. I always wash with soap. I never skip it and never missed. Hands are always germ. WASH NO MATTER WHAT!! Since March 2020 until now. Super clean and super caution and you will be fine. No problem.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 2, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> You should add an option for never been tested as I expect that's what most people would be unless they just guess based on symptoms.


Added option.



spotanjo3 said:


> I clicked YES by mistake because I thought Yes on the top and No on the bottom as usually but you used NO on the top. Jeez.
> 
> Test twice and negative because one of them was just hearing test.
> 
> ...


For me it wasn't necessary to get outside my home.
Actually my father whom works outside everyday infected me and my family. It just takes one member to infect a whole family.
That's why, based on my experience, it didn't mattered if I washed my hands, if I used masks, if I didn't went outside because I got sick in the supposed safest place for me: My Home

Would you like to cahnge your vote?


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## Taleweaver (Feb 2, 2021)

I haven't had it yet, and hope to stay that way. My neighbor from accross the street passed away from it two or three weeks back (we didn't know him...but we got a memorial card nonetheless), and I've blogged about other people in my close environment.

No, I haven't been tested (yet). But I'm working from home about 90% of the time and barely see anyone outside my family. And my girlfriend tested negative for both covid and the antibodies (1) around the end of 2020. I'd say that's a fair indication (well...together with "no symptoms at all", obviously).

While I don't like to admit it, I don't think covid's going to be completely wiped out (at least not in the short run). The best we can hope for is push it back as much as possible and it mutating to the point where it's not as severe as it currently is (which is the way most virusses mutate, apparently).



(1): meaning: she never previously had it either. I'm not sure if that's an indication for all the tests being made


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## subcon959 (Feb 2, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Added option


Thanks. The reason I suggested that is because I know at least 30 people who work in a hospital who were absolutely sure they had it (based on symptoms) and when they got tested only 1 of them actually had it. I also remember a period last year where I lost my sense of taste randomly for a few days but I doubt I had it either. I think too many people assume they had it because they remember being sick or whatever and therefore aren't as careful as they should be. It's so easy to fix this of course they just have to make it easier to get tested but I guess that was never the plan.


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## tabzer (Feb 2, 2021)

I've always considered "the flu" being the annual event of the body detoxifying itself.  I've only had a few times where it was too difficult for me to get out of bed.

I imagine I will get "covid" some day.  Maybe in a couple of years.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 2, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Thanks. The reason I suggested that is because I know at least 30 people who work in a hospital who were absolutely sure they had it (based on symptoms) and when they got tested only 1 of them actually had it. I also remember a period last year where I lost my sense of taste randomly for a few days but I doubt I had it either. I think too many people assume they had it because they remember being sick or whatever and therefore aren't as careful as they should be. It's so easy to fix this of course they just have to make it easier to get tested but I guess that was never the plan.



My mom's sister... that is, my aunt and cousins have Covid-19.
They tested positive a little after my family and I got sick.

Aunt and cousins has the same symptoms my family and I had.
Strangely enough we tested negative.

Have in mind though, we only got tested in late December and not while we were suffering the symptoms. While we had them I requested for tests which never arrived. And we went for tests after we felt good enough to get out of bed.


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## subcon959 (Feb 2, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> My mom's sister... that is, my aunt and cousins have Covid-19.
> They tested positive a little after my family and I got sick.
> 
> Aunt and cousins has the same symptoms my family and I had.
> ...


Yes, this puzzles me too as I heard so many things about the accuracy of testing. Apparently, false positive is more common than false negative.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 2, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Yes, this puzzles me too as I heard so many things about the accuracy of testing. Apparently, false positive is more common than false negative.


What? Really? 
That might be why most of "Covid Patients" recovers at home...


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## shaunj66 (Feb 2, 2021)

Given my line of work I would be very surprised if I haven't had it. I did feel quite ropey with some relating symptoms not long after it all initially kicked off but testing wasn't available then. Might have been COVID but no way to tell now.

Now I am tested twice weekly and so far all negative.


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 2, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Added option.
> 
> 
> For me it wasn't necessary to get outside my home.
> ...



That's true. That's why I dont allowed my friends and relative visited at all. Only through video web and talking from the distance  for a briefly. Its stressful but better than sorry.. 

And glad that you are well and healthy again. Smile.

Yes, please change it to No ? And thanks!


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## 1B51004 (Feb 3, 2021)

is there a option for "one of my family members had it and while we didn't have any symptoms we had to quarantine ourselves for a couple days just in case"? because that was my experience


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## Lacius (Feb 3, 2021)

I caught COVID-19 from my roommate last month, and I probably had it late February or early March before testing was available.


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## VartioArtel (Feb 3, 2021)

My family and I suspect I had it about this time last year. I was knocked into my bed, was sick for certain, could barely garner an appetite, etc. It got pretty severe and we did find 1-2 similar symptoms for certain, and this hit me for like 2 weeks straight. In the hind end, my throat was a complete hellscape where I couldn't drink ANYTHING without breaking into absolute pain, and let's not speak eating. I would struggle to even breathe without it being pain.

Was it actually Covid? I don't know, but that was no Flu, and it had quite a few similarities.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 3, 2021)

VartioArtel said:


> My family and I suspect I had it about this time last year. I was knocked into my bed, was sick for certain, could barely garner an appetite, etc. It got pretty severe and we did find 1-2 similar symptoms for certain, and this hit me for like 2 weeks straight. In the hind end, my throat was a complete hellscape where I couldn't drink ANYTHING without breaking into absolute pain, and let's not speak eating. I would struggle to even breathe without it being pain.
> 
> Was it actually Covid? I don't know, but that was no Flu, and it had quite a few similarities.



yes! I experienced the same but I could breath without pain, although I couldn't breathe entirely fine.
It felt as if you tried to do a deep breath but can't, as if something stopped you midways.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



1B51004 said:


> is there a option for "one of my family members had it and while we didn't have any symptoms we had to quarantine ourselves for a couple days just in case"? because that was my experience


No. I mean... there's a "don't know" option.


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## Deleted member 514389 (Feb 3, 2021)

tabzer said:


> I've always considered "the flu" being the annual event of the body detoxifying itself.  I've only had a few times where it was too difficult for me to get out of bed.
> 
> I imagine I will get "covid" some day.  Maybe in a couple of years.



Thats an interesting way to put it.
Aside from older people getting 'detoxified' to death if their immune response is not up to the job.
I agree on the also 'part'.
Respiratory distribution:
Very bad chances of containment.

And we haven't even talked about the air we breath every day killing us.
Wonderful world :-D

--------

I'm just here to remind you that
"COVID lung damage > Smoker lung damage"



Spoiler









https://www.wbtv.com/2021/01/16/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/



Have a nice day.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 3, 2021)

notrea11y said:


> And we haven't even talked about the air we breath every day killing us.


About the air we breate... some years ago read that the air is so contaminated with heavy metals that it's what's causing humans to increase the risk of getting cancer. According to this study, 1/3 of the entire global population will get some kind of cancer at some point of their lives.
Don't mind this as it's off topic, and have in mind that I'm not willing to search for that particular article. Just look it up if anyone is interesting in learning more about it.




notrea11y said:


> https://www.wbtv.com/2021/01/16/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/



About this picture. Dad got his lungs checked, as he's the one who started to suffer from breathing problems. And ONE of his lungs started to look like the third picture (but just one) then we developed the lost of our smell and taste senses, besides more symptoms related to covid.
I do remember having some problems trying to breathe, but nothing particularly bad.


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 3, 2021)

My gosh. You guys caught from it and some aren't sure. It doesn't matter.. As long as you guys are okay then I am glad. Be careful and stay alive. Cheers.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Feb 13, 2021)

I'd say probably not, never been tested


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Feb 13, 2021)

Wait, a minute, i'm the poll god here, not you bozo!


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 13, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Wait, a minute, i'm the poll god here, not you bozo!


Guess what? I did the Mario Party poll way before you did.
I'm the poll god.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/poll-vote-for-the-best-mario-party-game.571932/


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## Milenko (Feb 13, 2021)

It's the long term effects that's the most scary


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## Joe88 (Feb 13, 2021)

about a month ago, I developed a fever, went to get tested the next day, came back negative, fever went up to 105.5F later that week, 5 days later, fever was still there, went to get tested again, came back positive, had the fever for over 2 weeks, and another week and a half of extreme fatigue before finally feeling better, went o get another another test 5 days after the fever broke, came back negative

only symptoms I had:
High persistent fever for 2 weeks
high fatigue
lack of appetite

lost 15 lbs, never lost sense of taste and smell


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 13, 2021)

Joe88 said:


> about a month ago, I developed a fever, went to get tested the next day, came back negative, fever went up to 105.5F later that week, 5 days later, fever was still there, went to get tested again, came back positive, had the fever for over 2 weeks, and another week and a half of extreme fatigue before finally feeling better, went o get another another test 5 days after the fever broke, came back negative
> 
> only symptoms I had:
> High persistent fever for 2 weeks
> ...


Dude! I know that thinking everyone with Covid will  experience the same symptoms *is unrealistic*, but your case is super weird.
Specially because you didn't lost your senses.
Can I ask you something?
*Food tastes the same to you?
*
For instance, dad can't tolerate eggs now.
Sister can't tolerate onion.
Mom can't tolerate tomato, cream, lemon.
I can't tolerate tomatoes neither.

*Have you experienced something like this after having Covid?*


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## Joe88 (Feb 13, 2021)

Everything tastes/smells the same


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Feb 13, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Guess what? I did the Mario Party poll way before you did.
> I'm the poll god.
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/poll-vote-for-the-best-mario-party-game.571932/


Well you're gonna delete it!


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## Patxinco (Feb 13, 2021)

Tested positive on 31/12.
Got tested cause dad had positive on 27/12.
Actually, not a big fever as everyone says, but lost smell and taste for a week (30/12 to 5/1)
And i think i've got a good thing from the covid, i seem to have lost allergic to dust mites (still trying to make a test for it).
For me has been a pretty normal virus/flu besides the smell/taste issue.


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## WiiMiiSwitch (Feb 13, 2021)

Patxinco said:


> Tested positive on 31/12.
> Got tested cause dad had positive on 27/12.
> Actually, not a big fever as everyone says, but lost smell and taste for a week (30/12 to 5/1)
> And i think i've got a good thing from the covid, i seem to have lost allergic to dust mites (still trying to make a test for it).
> For me has been a pretty normal virus/flu besides the smell/taste issue.


Thank god you survived, this virus is very dangerous.


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## Lostbhoy (Feb 13, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Guess what? I did the Mario Party poll way before you did.
> I'm the poll god.
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/poll-vote-for-the-best-mario-party-game.571932/


Goddammit!! I done one in December as my kids wanted to play the best one. I wouldn't have if I saw yours!!! 

Regarding the question at large here.... 

I'm positive I had it November 2019 but no testing or even knowledge about it then to be sure. In my line of work I was constantly around international travellers back then and was floored for 2 months with every symptom I've read about relating to the virus and lost about 5 stone in weight. I'm really glad that if it was covid then it wasn't as serious or fatal as we know it can be now but nothing has ever floored me the way that illness did then. I knew at the time it was something worse but the hospital told me it was just flu. 

Rode it out for the 2 months by mainly sleeping, then felt good enough to eat gradually again and got back to normal when it became obvious what was happening in the world. 

Who knows though!


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## CloudStrife190100 (Feb 13, 2021)

Just had the craps and severe chest pains / aches all over and pains for about 3 weeks. Not sure what it was though and i never got tested. Fine now mind


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## Patxinco (Feb 13, 2021)

WiiMiiSwitch said:


> Thank god you survived, this virus is very dangerous.


I can understand this virus can be deadly for a lot of people who has previous issues, but frankly, i'm pretty sure most of the population has had it once and a very high % had it with no symptoms.
Is deadly, obviously, like the yearly Flu.
I think the worst of it is the chronicle issues you may get forever if you have it. That's the scariest part IMO.
If you die, well, you die; but if you must live rest of your life with out of breath for just going upstairs, your life is worsened forever and i, PERSONALLY, would prefer death.

Again, IMHO.

And said that, masks are absolutely necessary and i keep using it even knowing i have 6 months immunity (or so they said) and everyone should use it too.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Feb 22, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Guess what? I did the Mario Party poll way before you did.
> I'm the poll god.
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/poll-vote-for-the-best-mario-party-game.571932/


This is getting out of hand, now there's two of them!


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 22, 2021)

Scott_pilgrim said:


> This is getting out of hand, now there's two of them!


I'm sure someone did it before me.
The one I made was just to show Alexander that I'm right and he's wrong.


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## Xzi (Feb 22, 2021)

I'm 95% sure I did catch it in early December.  My mom was working as a home hospice nurse and my dad was mostly working from home, but they both tested positive despite all precautions.  Some time after that, maybe a little less than a week, I started feeling symptoms too.  Thankfully symptoms for all three of us were mild, and it's likely we were introduced to a very small viral dose.  I was somewhat short of breath a couple days in a row, which wasn't fun by any means, but thank random deity that it wasn't bad enough where I felt I'd pass out or need to go to the hospital.

Worst part is that it's still possible to catch it again two or three months later.  Then you're just rolling the dice _again_.  Gimme dat vaccine.


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## Ricken (Feb 22, 2021)

I may have got it from my girlfriend at the tail end of 2019; she was so sick she couldn't walk and she couldn't smell/taste so covid is the easiest guess, right?
I started feeling sick about a week after she got better so the incubation time lines up too
But nobody in our families got it from us


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## Viri (Feb 22, 2021)

Nope, and I'm quite scared to catch it. My cousin lives in another state, had it, and nearly died from it.

My friend's grand mom died from it, because they kept allowing people who tested positive with Cov19 into her retirement home. She didn't get to see her family while dying, and died very confused.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 22, 2021)

Viri said:


> and died very confused.


Did she looked confused?


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## Viri (Feb 22, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Did she looked confused?


From what my friend said, she didn't know what was going on, didn't know why she was being hooked up to a ventilator, didn't know what Cov19 even was, and didn't know she was dying from it.


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## omgcat (Feb 22, 2021)

JuanMena said:


> Did she looked confused?


confusion is sadly a symptom of covid. you have no idea where you are, or whats going on, and can never figure it out unless you get better.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 22, 2021)

Viri said:


> From what my friend said, she didn't know what was going on, didn't know why she was being hooked up to a ventilator, didn't know what Cov19 even was, and didn't know she was dying from it.


Oh, sorry.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



omgcat said:


> confusion is sadly a symptom of covid. you have no idea where you are, or whats going on, and can never figure it out unless you get better.


Now that you mention it... had that symptom whilst I was sick.


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## DKB (Feb 22, 2021)

I should go get tested one of these days. Oddly, I remember back in 2019, I got extremely ill in November. I wanted to die at certain points. However, when I got lab results back, they thought I had pneumonia. However, weeks later, I got email stating that they did not know what I had..


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## The Catboy (Feb 22, 2021)

To my knowledge, I haven’t caught it. There were a few false alarms, including a flu so bad that all signs pointed to Covid until my wife and I were tested (twice) and determined to be a really bad flu. I’ve been doing my best to follow all preventative measures and it seems to be paying off.
I did have one flu back in December of 2019 that I caught for working Black Friday. It had all of the symptoms and didn’t show up on any of the known flu tests back then. The only reason I don’t suspect it was Covid is because my wife didn’t get sick. But I haven’t had any tests run to see if my body has any immunity cells or not.


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## AncientBoi (Feb 22, 2021)

I got @alexander1970 before. Does that count?


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## Taleweaver (Feb 22, 2021)

OldBoi said:


> I got @alexander1970 before. Does that count?


Nope. That's the benign variant.


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## DBlaze (Feb 22, 2021)

I have a hunch I have had it back in January 2020 considering i had most symptoms and stinging / burning pains in my lungs and was pretty fatigued for a week or so. 
Then finally started to fade away, if it had gotten any worse I would've gone to a doctor but back then it was just started going around china / barely europe
But in the end I have no clue.


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## Seliph (Feb 22, 2021)

Last February when Covid was (seemingly) mostly contained in China, me and several of my friends got badly sick, it definitely wasn't the flu but we had no clue what else it could be.

Looking back I'm pretty sure we all had Covid at that time but it's hard to tell because there were very few recorded cases at the time so there's no way to 100% know for sure since I didn't get tested, and regardless testing wasn't very robust at the time.


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## JJ1013 (Jul 7, 2021)

I am not sure if I ever was a SARS-CoV-2 asymptomatic because of the fact that the swab tests don't exist here (in their place, a lame X-Ray test which won't prove anything), but with the fact that my entire family got it (even my mother) is enough for me to be afraid of it.

Those who think SARS-CoV-2 don't exist are incredibly foolish. Natural selection will do its job -- death awaits them.


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## The Catboy (Jul 9, 2021)

If there's anything I've learned is that actively avoiding crowds, wearing a mask, and keeping myself clean has helped keep me from getting Covid. Luckily, I got both shots and I don't plan on changing my lifestyle back to the pre-covid ways. I am enjoying not getting sick as much as I used to.


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## Deleted User (Jul 10, 2021)

Some time early last year my parents got really sick from something. Don't know what it was but it was pretty bad. It could've been COVID, but I don't know as they weren't tested then. Whatever it was I somehow didn't have any symptoms from it.


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## bazamuffin (Sep 22, 2021)

Yes, lasted for 3 days.  Still isolated for a further 7 days as per guidelines


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## Deleted member 568048 (Oct 5, 2021)

No, atleast I don't think
I did get a flu awhile ago but it lasted for 2 days and it was the most easy flu I ever had. it was more annoying than painful.


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## shaunj66 (Oct 5, 2021)

Tested positive for COVID last Wednesday. Feel 90% better now but my sense of smell is shot. Taste is 80% back though.


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## linuxares (Oct 5, 2021)

I've might have had it. Before midsummer last year. I had issues breathing, it hurt like a motherfucker in the lungs. Like really bad. Like someone was stabbing you, short on breath etc. fever, feeling just really, really ill.

I waited at home for 5 days before they allowed me to go to the ER to get checked. My breathing was better, but I was coughing like an old rustbucket. They tried my breathing and it was around 95. Which is the lowest I ever had, I'm normal 98 to 100. They took my blood and saw I had something, but they had so many patients inside and I wasn't dying, that they recommended me to stay home.

Sweden at the time didn't do tests except when someone was on the sickbed. So after like a month, I manage to get a PCR. But then I were fine. After 6 months, you could do antibodies test and I had none inside me. So it's a mystery. The doctor I spoke to think I might have had it, but since nothing say that I did except the blood test that said I had a big increase in white blood cells, they don't know.



shaunj66 said:


> Tested positive for COVID last Wednesday. Feel 90% better now but my sense of smell is shot. Taste is 80% back though.


I hope you get a speedy recovery!


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## pwjpssdfvqyuhweuxx (Oct 5, 2021)

no. And everyone I know hasn't either.


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## AsPika2219 (Oct 21, 2021)

Finally....  I got stupid positif covd since Monday, because of cough, fever, headache, loss of taste or smell etc...  But don't worry because I already inject 2 dos vaccine Sinovac, just got stupid DELTA covid right now...  Quarantine in my home.


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## AsPika2219 (Oct 21, 2021)

(delete this because double post)


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## DaRk_ViVi (Oct 21, 2021)

Yup, had it last year around November. I was very tired, no fever, some backpain and lost taste/smell for 3-4 days (without any reason, I had no runny nose or anything).

Got tested and was positive, but was sure as my gf was positive too before me.


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## CloudStrife1901 (Oct 21, 2021)

My youngest daughter had it. No side effects nothing. My other 2 children even spent the whole time in isolation in the same room has her and they never got it. Me and my partner never did either and i know other families who were in the same position. Can't be that contagious since no others in the households got it


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## Alexander1970 (Oct 21, 2021)

AsPika2219 said:


> Finally....  I got stupid positif covd since Monday, because of cough, fever, headache, loss of taste or smell etc...  But don't worry because I already inject 2 dos vaccine Sinovac, just got stupid DELTA covid right now...  Quarantine in my home.




Very sorry to hear...


....and sorry to say....it is like a Flu.......Vaccination - good....but a "Naturally" going through "the disease would also help the Body / immune System ...you will see it next Year,for sure.


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## AsPika2219 (Oct 22, 2021)

Alexander1970 said:


> Very sorry to hear...
> 
> 
> ....and sorry to say....it is like a Flu.......Vaccination - good....but a "Naturally" going through "the disease would also help the Body / immune System ...you will see it next Year,for sure.


Is OK! After 14 days just this November, I will free from stupid virus!


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## sailr (Oct 22, 2021)

I was vaccinated three times


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## rehevkor (Oct 22, 2021)

Never had it, but I've had full-on flu before (stuck in bed for at least a week), and if Covid is anything like that, or worse, no thank you.


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## AsPika2219 (Oct 26, 2021)

Finally! I am healthy after long time covid because of flu, fever, cough, headcache etc... Is time for enjoy!!!


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## JonhathonBaxster (Nov 16, 2021)

I'm not sure if I've had COVID-19, but chances are that if I had it I wouldn't know because most people that get it don't even fall ill.


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## JayBae (Jan 8, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> Covid-19 is a disease that arrived to stay.
> People often thinks that it's "just a flu", and that made me wonder if any of you guys has had it before.
> 
> *I've had it.*
> ...


I had it, My experience was like a bad flu, but I was not at any risk of dying, I did not lose my sense of smell or taste, I never had issues breathing that I noticed. I tested positive, and was sent home and self quarantined till I got better. Used Vitamin C, cold meds and flu meds to fight the flu like symptoms, and smoked pot lol. that's about it. oh, and I was not vaccinated at the time, and this was durring the peak of the pandemic.

TBH I'm not sure why some people react so bad to it and others don't... It's such a picky choosy virus.

I have a friend that's recovering from it, he almost died cause he got Pneumonia at the same time, and it's effed up his lungs pretty bad, and he has to be on O2.

Also just wanted to add this

You mentioned that some think it's "just a flu", well to some, Like me, who had it but it did not effect me as bad as it does some people, it was no worse than a bad flu in my case... so in a way, it was _like _that. I know it's not a the flu, I'm just saying, My experience was very mild than typical Covid-19 cases ya hear about in the news.


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## Viri (Jan 8, 2022)

I think I had it two weeks ago starting on Christmas, had nearly all the symptoms. It was okay, the fatigue and fever was annoying though.

That flu I had back in 2017 was so much much much worse.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 8, 2022)

JayBae said:


> TBH I'm not sure why some people react so bad to it and others don't... It's such a picky choosy virus.


Some studiee found that the type of your blood might have correlation to wether you get a bad experience or not.

But one thing for sure is that people with chronic diseases or a weak immune system are the ones that turns extremely bad.


----------



## JayBae (Jan 8, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> Some studiee found that the type of your blood might have correlation to wether you get a bad experience or not.
> 
> But one thing for sure is that people with chronic diseases or a weak immune system are the ones that turns extremely bad.


See that's another thing, I'm disabled with a disease I was born with, I have Becker's muscular dystrophy. Like yeah that mostly effects my legs muscles and junk, but it has a mix of many other health issues, and breathing issues is one of them cause of weakness in the muscles that help in that, amoung heart issues and other junk... When the pandemic first happen, I thought it would straight up kill me if I caught it, yet when I got it, it was nowhere near as bad as I had expected.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 8, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> Very sorry to hear...
> 
> 
> ....and sorry to say....it is like a Flu.......Vaccination - good....but a "Naturally" going through "the disease would also help the Body / immune System ...you will see it next Year,for sure.


Yes Alexander you're totally right about this.

When you get the Vaccine, you prepare your body to the disease because you create antibodies against it.
Having Covid while being unvaccinated puts you at risk because you don't know if you're going to develop Pneumonia or another kind of chronic respiratory illness.

This is why it's important to be vaccinated, *if you value your own life.*
(Not targeting you Alexander, just saying to anyone who's reading this)

Studies claim that people that has had it prior to vaccination, has a boosted effect in antibodies when they get vaccinated and has better chances of feeling Covid as  a normal flu.

Besides, when a virus evolves it gets progressively weaker *the more it mutates.*
It might be harder to get rid off, but it's effects are less powerful that the first virus or first variants.


----------



## JayBae (Jan 8, 2022)

And I did mention I was unvacinated when I got it, the vaccine did not even exist yet. So either I'm just super lucky, or my immune system is the hulk... cause I really thought I'd die if I got it.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 8, 2022)

JayBae said:


> See that's another thing, I'm disabled with a disease I was born with, I have Becker's muscular dystrophy. Like yeah that mostly effects my legs muscles and junk, but it has a mix of many other health issues, and breathing issues is one of them cause of weakness in the muscles that help in that, amoung heart issues and other junk... When the pandemic first happen, I thought it would straight up kill me if I caught it, yet when I got it, it was nowhere near as bad as I had expected.


Same for me, although I don't have your disease, I do have a Heart Disease that puts me at a higher risk.

When I got Covid, I got totally confident that that was it. Kidding you not, I'm surprised I survived... but I blame that to my blood type and my healthy life style.

When I first read that vaccines were causing trouble to people like you and me, I was hesitant about getting the shot or not.
But I thought that it couldn't be near as bad as getting Covid for the first time, and I took the risk.

Didn't get past a 2 day fever and blood pressure issues (which is something I deal with nearly everyday) and don't ask me about the first time because I don't remember much about it. If it wasn't because I wrote about it on my blog I wouldn't have anything to remember other thab the first time I got my Taste and Smell senses back... and even now some things smells and tastes awful.


----------



## JayBae (Jan 8, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> I got my Taste and Smell senses back... and even now some things smells and tastes awful.


Yeah I never got that symptom, I never lost my taste or smell at any moment.


----------



## paulttt (Jan 8, 2022)

I ended up testing positive 2 weeks before Christmas.

I had a bit of a sore throat, runny nose and for the first day was quite lethargic.  The day after though the lethargy had gone and was otherwise fit and well.

10 days of playing video games wore me out though, couldn't wait to get back to work


----------



## JayBae (Jan 8, 2022)

Maybe I should mention, I'm partially Vegetarian, I eat meat very rarely, So i'm rather healthy, I'm curious if peeps diets or lifestyles had a play in how bad it effected them?


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 9, 2022)

I literally JUST recovered from covid, probly Omicron since I've been in contact with a person outside from my home  without a mask only once and caught covid two days later.
I probably won't suffer from long covid though


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 13, 2022)

Just yesterday I finally tested negative for Covid. I tested positive right on December 30th. Covid was hands down the worst experience I had in my life. I am also lucky to have gotten vaccinated because I definitely would have died from it. I am immunocompromised and Covid was bad enough with all the vaccinations.


JayBae said:


> Maybe I should mention, I'm partially Vegetarian, I eat meat very rarely, So i'm rather healthy, I'm curious if peeps diets or lifestyles had a play in how bad it effected them?


I am mostly a vegetarian and only eat fish occasionally. I can’t eat red meat because I am allergic to it. I also rarely leave my home due to my immune disorder. Now my immune disorder definitely played into how bad Covid was for me.



Alexander1970 said:


> Very sorry to hear...
> 
> 
> ....and sorry to say....it is like a Flu.......Vaccination - good....but a "Naturally" going through "the disease would also help the Body / immune System ...you will see it next Year,for sure.


I would have died if I wasn’t vaccinated. My immune system doesn’t handle things very well. I nearly died from the flu the one time I skipped a vaccination.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Just yesterday I finally tested negative for Covid. I tested positive right on December 30th. Covid was hands down the worst experience I had in my life. I am also lucky to have gotten vaccinated because I definitely would have died from it. I am immunocompromised and Covid was bad enough with all the vaccinations.
> 
> I am mostly a vegetarian and only eat fish occasionally. I can’t eat red meat because I am allergic to it. I also rarely leave my home due to my immune disorder. Now my immune disorder definitely played into how bad Covid was for me.
> 
> ...


For you the Vaccination was/is a Lifesaver.Thank God.
Many People with an weak (or not existend) Immunesystem has survived because of it.
We can be very,very glad to have the Vaccines.

And I also hope,your Immunesystem gets better (maybe recover) in the next Years) with more Vaccinations.
Many People really need it.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 13, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> For you the Vaccination was/is a Lifesaver.Thank God.
> Many People with an weak (or not existend) Immunesystem has survived because of it.
> We can be very,very glad to have the Vaccines.
> 
> ...


Thanks, it won’t though. My immune system disorder is caused from either Lupus or Behçet's disease (we should be narrowing this down in some upcoming appointments with a rheumatologist.) This has plagued me since my late teens. Vaccines help keep illness from killing me but it doesn’t help when people are out there doing shit like not getting vaccinated, not washing their hands, and not taking illnesses seriously. I’ve seen people who were visibly ill in stores without a mask or gloves or anything to protect other people. This is actually why I rarely leave my home.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 14, 2022)

I'm surprised no one's talking about the new Covid-19 revelations that just came out from the CDC director and such, like how even with the shot you can still spread it, cloth masks don't work, but M-95's do, or how it was revealed that many Covid hospitilizations and deaths weren't caused by covid but by other underlying conditions most people had. I mean, all this great shocking new info never before revealed within the past two years!


----------



## tabzer (Jan 14, 2022)

You mean people aren't lining up to admit how douchey they've been in pushing propaganda?  I'm shocked.

They will still encourage everyone else to make the same mistakes that they did.  

"The vaccine saved my life".  Lol no.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 14, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I'm surprised no one's talking about the new Covid-19 revelations that just came out from the CDC director and such, like how even with the shot you can still spread it, cloth masks don't work, but M-95's do, or how it was revealed that many Covid hospitilizations and deaths weren't caused by covid but by other underlying conditions most people had. I mean, all this great shocking new info never before revealed within the past two years!


It was "never before revealed" because it's new information that only pertains to the new variants like omicron. Before delta, vaccinated people who suffered breakthrough infections were significantly less likely to spread the disease. Before omicron, cloth face masks were reasonably effective. Before the vaccine and before the mass testing that precipitated omicron, nearly all COVID-19 hospitalization numbers were hospitalizations directly due to COVID-19 (I haven't read anything that suggests the COVID-19 death numbers are anything other than deaths as a direct result of COVID-19).

Here are the facts: COVID-19 today is killing approximately 2,000 Americans each day, and the vast majority of them are unvaccinated. In addition to keeping people out of the hospital and keeping people from dying, the vaccine is also the best way to keep oneself from catching the disease and spreading it, despite it not being 100% effective.



tabzer said:


> You mean people aren't lining up to admit how douchey they've been in pushing propaganda?  I'm shocked.
> 
> They will still encourage everyone else to make the same mistakes that they did.
> 
> "The vaccine saved my life".  Lol no.


The only propaganda that's being pushed here is from the COVID-deniers and anti-vaxxers. The vaccines have prevented an estimated 1.1 million deaths and 10.3 million hospitalizations in the United States alone.

I don't expect history to be kind to the anti-science, anti-vax COVID-deniers who sit idly by literally drinking their own piss, spreading disease, and creating variants while they fill up hospitals and make it harder for everyone else to receive medical care.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 15, 2022)

"New Feed"....


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You mean people aren't lining up to admit how douchey they've been in pushing propaganda?  I'm shocked.
> 
> They will still encourage everyone else to make the same mistakes that they did.
> 
> "The vaccine saved my life".  Lol no.


The fact that the unvaccinated are dying and those who have been vaccinated are living is an undeniable fact. There still has been no evidence provided by anti-vaxxors


----------



## Milenko (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You mean people aren't lining up to admit how douchey they've been in pushing propaganda?  I'm shocked.
> 
> They will still encourage everyone else to make the same mistakes that they did.
> 
> "The vaccine saved my life".  Lol no.


I know it makes you feel edgy going against the system but it's just cringe


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You mean people aren't lining up to admit how douchey they've been in pushing propaganda?  I'm shocked.
> 
> They will still encourage everyone else to make the same mistakes that they did.
> 
> "The vaccine saved my life".  Lol no.


Here in Quebec, only 5% of the population is like you, another 5% is out of the society (doesn't pay taxes like homeless people)
Except that, over 90% of quebecois are vaccinated 
Legault, our prime minister, wants to add a tax to unvaccinated people of a significant amount (like 5000$)
Don't come near the province of Quebec, our prime minister and the minister of health and care are just like Maccron, they want to piss unvaccinated people off


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The only propaganda that's being pushed here is from the COVID-deniers and anti-vaxxers. The vaccines have prevented an estimated 1.1 million deaths and 10.3 million hospitalizations in the United States alone.
> 
> I don't expect history to be kind to the anti-science, anti-vax COVID-deniers who sit idly by literally drinking their own piss, spreading disease, and creating variants while they fill up hospitals and make it harder for everyone else to receive medical care.


This is hilarious.  People who have the dedication of drinking their own piss are simultaneously rushing to the hospitals and filling them up.  Lacius propaganda is the best propaganda.

Variants are more likely caused by strains surviving resistant hosts. If a new strain does emerge that is less dangerous and starves out the more dangerous strains... then is that a public service?  Whatever you call it, I'm pretty sure Pfizer and crowd would be threatened by it.



The Catboy said:


> Politely eat my ass



If your mental exercises are an indication, you are flexible enough to do that yourself.



Milenko said:


> I know it makes you feel edgy going against the system but it's just cringe



Ha? What _system _am I going against? The system of gbatemp scientists, statisticians, and doctors?

CDC isn't "the system".  People pushing their propaganda aren't representing anyone I know.   And if someone isn't already aware of how screwed up their countries' political arenas are, then I don't have the patience.

Just remember, there are only two sides on any given subject.


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> This is hilarious.  People who have the dedication of drinking their own piss are simultaneously rushing to the hospitals and filling them up.  Lacius propaganda is the best propaganda.
> 
> Variants are more likely caused by strains surviving resistant hosts. If a new strain does emerge that is less dangerous and starves out the more dangerous strains... then is that a public service?  Whatever you call it, I'm pretty sure Pfizer and crowd would be threatened by it.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that over 90% of quebecois are just sheep?
90% of quebecois are on the wrong side?
Quebec is among the nations with the most vaccinated people in them (if not THE nation with the most vaccinated people) and we are proud of it


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Noctosphere said:


> So you're saying that over 90% of quebecois are just sheep?
> 90% of quebecois are on the wrong side?
> Quebec is among the nations with the most vaccinated people in them (if not THE nation with the most vaccinated people) and we are proud of it



I was hoping that you understood that it was sarcasm when I said, "Just remember, there are only two sides on any given subject."  I'm not knocking Quebec and I have not a lot of interest in it.  If you feel united by the vaccine and its boosters, then you might not have a lot of reason to leave Quebec.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

To get a little more on topic, I thought in December I had COVID-19 again. My symptoms were extremely mild, but I figured it was because omicron was milder and/or because I was triple vaccinated. The test ended up coming back negative, so it was probably just the flu (which was going around at my workplace).



tabzer said:


> This is hilarious.  People who have the dedication of drinking their own piss are simultaneously rushing to the hospitals.  Lacius propaganda is the best propaganda.


The fact remains that drinking one's own urine is the anti-vaxxers' new hydroxychloroquine, horse-dewormer, or borax bath. It also remains that the selfish anti-vaxxers make up the vast majority of those who are overwhelming hospitals and dying at a rate of approximately 1,000 Americans a day.

It's the anti-vax nonsense that's false, biased, misleading, and political, which makes it hilarious that you're sincerely calling my posts "propaganda."



tabzer said:


> Variants are more likely caused by strains surviving resistant hosts. If a new strain does emerge that is less dangerous and starves out the more dangerous strains... then is that a public service?  Whatever you call it, I'm pretty sure Pfizer and crowd would be threatened by it.


Variants are more likely to arise when rates of infection are high. Every notable variant arose in an area of significantly low vaccination.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would call the delta variant a "public service." That would either be incredibly evil or incredibly stupid.



tabzer said:


> Ha? What _system _am I going against? The system of gbatemp scientists, statisticians, and doctors?


No, just science in general. And maybe basic human decency.


----------



## Milenko (Jan 15, 2022)

Being antivax is the new Goth, if you quietly had your own opinions then sure, that's on you to risk your health but when you have to let everyone know how different and defiant you are everyone just shakes their head at you


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> To get a little more on topic, I thought in December I had COVID-19 again. My symptoms were extremely mild, but I figured it was because omicron was milder and/or because I was triple vaccinated. The test ended up coming back negative, so it was probably just the flu (which was going around at my workplace).
> 
> 
> The fact remains that drinking one's own urine is the anti-vaxxers' new hydroxychloroquine, horse-dewormer, or borax bath. It also remains that the selfish anti-vaxxers make up the vast majority of those who are overwhelming hospitals and dying at a rate of approximately 1,000 Americans a day.
> ...



Can I just wait and buy your book, "Musings of a Hypochondriac"?  Your posts are not representative of science, or as you refer to it, "the system."  You use science as a spice to flavor your ego trip.  But we both know it's used just to mask the taste.



Milenko said:


> Being antivax is the new Goth



OK.


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> To get a little more on topic, I thought in December I had COVID-19 again. My symptoms were extremely mild, but I figured it was because omicron was milder and/or because I was triple vaccinated. The test ended up coming back negative, so it was probably just the flu (which was going around at my workplace).
> 
> 
> The fact remains that drinking one's own urine is the anti-vaxxers' new hydroxychloroquine, horse-dewormer, or borax bath. It also remains that the selfish anti-vaxxers make up the vast majority of those who are overwhelming hospitals and dying at a rate of approximately 1,000 Americans a day.
> ...


I think the only way to create a variant is that a person with a high protection transmit the virus to someone with low protection
(AKA a vaccinated person transmit it to a unvaccinated one) Am I right?


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Can I just wait and buy your book, "Musings of a Hypochondriac"?  Your posts are not representative of science, or as you refer to it, "the system."  You use science as a spice to flavor your ego trip.  But we both know it's used just to mask the taste.
> 
> 
> 
> OK.


What he says is actual science, I think YOU should provide proof of what you say because everyone here seem to be against what you say.
If what you say is the truth, then please... oh please... provide sources... and please... oh please... be these sources trustable
thanks


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Noctosphere said:


> What he says is actual science, I think YOU should provide proof of what you say because everyone here seem to be against what you say.



First.  Things that people say are not science.  Second, I have not said anything controversial.


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> First.  Things that people say are not science.  Second, I have not said anything controversial.


I stop you right there. don't say anything else...
Provide link, thats all I ask, dont say anything else
just a link, thats all... ok?
If you say anything else other than providing a link, I'll leave knowing that you're just a troll
thanks


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

Milenko said:


> Being antivax is the new Goth, if you quietly had your own opinions then sure, that's on you to risk your health but when you have to let everyone know how different and defiant you are everyone just shakes their head at you


The difference is, as far as I'm aware, goths don't selfishly overwhelm hospitals at the expense of everyone else who needs medical care.



tabzer said:


> Can I just wait and buy your book, "Musings of a Hypochondriac"?


I haven't said anything that would suggest I'm a "hypochondriac," so I suggest you brush up on the term. I don't irrationally believe I'm sick with something I'm not sick with, and I'm not even afraid of getting COVID-19 again if/when that happens. I'm honestly much more concerned that I, or someone else in my life, will need medical service for something that isn't COVID-19 but being unable to receive care in a timely fashion.



tabzer said:


> Your posts are not representative of science, or as you refer to it, "the system."  You use science as a spice to flavor your ego trip.  But we both know it's used just to mask the taste.


I haven't said anything that isn't backed up by the preponderance of scientific evidence.

Vaccines are safe and effective, and the anti-vaxxers are the reason we're seeing hospitals overwhelmed. These are facts.



Noctosphere said:


> I think the only way to create a variant is that a person with a high protection transmit the virus to someone with low protection
> (AKA a vaccinated person transmit it to a unvaccinated one) Am I right?


No. The more the virus is allowed to spread, the more likely variants will pop up. In the case of omicron, for example, it likely came about from someone having COVID-19 at the same time as having a common cold (caused by another coronavirus). The viruses exchanged genetic information, and you can figure out the rest. This is likely why omicron is more infectious but less severe. The best way to reduce the odds of a new variant is to lessen the spread of disease by having as many people vaccinated as possible.



tabzer said:


> First.  Things that people say are not science.  Second, I have not said anything controversial.


You've repeatedly peddled anti-vax bullshit. It wasn't more than a few posts ago that you suggested the COVID-19 vaccine isn't saving lives.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> This is hilarious.  People who have the dedication of drinking their own piss are simultaneously rushing to the hospitals and filling them up.  Lacius propaganda is the best propaganda.
> 
> Variants are more likely caused by strains surviving resistant hosts. If a new strain does emerge that is less dangerous and starves out the more dangerous strains... then is that a public service?  Whatever you call it, I'm pretty sure Pfizer and crowd would be threatened by it.
> 
> ...


I opted to remove parts of my own post to pick my own battles. The fact that you mock people who survived Covid as a result of being vaccinated while pretending to know anything about science and expecting respect is an insult. I survived Covid as a result of being vaccinated and the unvaccinated are dying in droves. These are facts and no amount of your ego will change that.


Milenko said:


> Being antivax is the new Goth, if you quietly had your own opinions then sure, that's on you to risk your health but when you have to let everyone know how different and defiant you are everyone just shakes their head at you


Please don’t insult goths.


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> No. The more the virus is allowed to spread, the more likely variants will pop up. In the case of omicron, for example, it likely came about from someone having COVID-19 at the same time as having a common cold (caused by another coronavirus). The viruses exchanged genetic information, and you can figure out the rest. This is likely why omicron is more infectious but less severe. The best way to reduce the odds of a new variant is to lessen the spread of disease by having as many people vaccinated as possible.


thanks for the clarification


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I opted to remove parts of my own post to pick my own battles. The fact that you mock people who survived Covid as a result of being vaccinated while pretending to know anything about science and expecting respect is an insult. I survived Covid as a result of being vaccinated and the unvaccinated are dying in droves. These are facts and no amount of your ego will change that.


exactly,
Here in Quebec, over 50% of hospitalized people are unvaxxed
The proportion of unvaxxed and vaxxed people in urgencies is immense
Those are fact too
At the radio, I heard someone saying that the vaccine of (iirc, it was that disease) Spain Flu killed more people than the Spain Flu itself, except that... there never were a vaccine for the Spain Flu...
I'm not 100% sure it's the spain flu I'm tlking about, but the guy said the vaccine of that disease killed more people than the disease, but there wasn't any vaccine for that disease ever
That guy hanged up the phone immediatly, it was hilarious


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> You've repeatedly peddled anti-vax bullshit. It wasn't more than a few posts ago that you suggested the COVID-19 vaccine isn't saving lives.



I didn't.  I'm just not seeing any peer-reviewed study on Catboy's survival, nor am I buying into your, "I'm triple vaccinated, and caught Covid three times," autobiography.



Lacius said:


> These are facts.



That's propaganda.


----------



## Noctosphere (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I didn't.  I'm just not seeing any peer-reviewed study on Catboy's survival, nor am I buying into your, "I'm a triple vaccinated, and caught Covid three times," autobiography.
> 
> 
> 
> That's propaganda.


thanks for not providing link troll 
Guys, tag me whenever he provide a link please, in the mean time, I'm unfollowing this thread
BTW, tabzer, you can tag me whenever you provide a link, not for anything else
If you tag me for anything except than providing a link, I'll report you for it
thank you


----------



## Milenko (Jan 15, 2022)

We're just as dumb for arguing


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Noctosphere said:


> thanks for not providing link troll
> Guys, tag me whenever he provide a link please, in the mean time, I'm unfollowing this thread
> BTW, tabzer, you can tag me whenever you provide a link, not for anything else
> If you tag me for anything except than providing a link, I'll report you for it
> thank you



I'll be sure to tag you when I have something to say to you.  Otherwise it is safe to assume that I am not talking to you.  Or maybe I don't value your opinion.  Your call.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I didn't.  I'm just not seeing any peer-reviewed study on Catboy's survival, nor am I buying into your, "I'm a triple vaccinated, and caught Covid three times," autobiography.


It's more than reasonable to think @The Catboy at least experienced much milder symptoms from being vaccinated. It's plausible, given their medical history, that they could have died without having been vaccinated, but we obviously can't demonstrate that to be the case for sure.

Are you saying you accept the fact that the COVID-19 vaccines have saved a significant number of lives? Do you accept the fact that hospitals are being overwhelmed by unvaccinated people at the expense of others?



Noctosphere said:


> thanks for not providing link troll
> Guys, tag me whenever he provide a link please, in the mean time, I'm unfollowing this thread
> BTW, tabzer, you can tag me whenever you provide a link, not for anything else
> If you tag me for anything except than providing a link, I'll report you for it
> thank you


Don't hold your breath.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I didn't.  I'm just not seeing any peer-reviewed study on Catboy's survival, nor am I buying into your, "I'm triple vaccinated, and caught Covid three times," autobiography.
> 
> 
> 
> That's propaganda.


I’ve only caught Covid once and I am vaccinated. My wife also caught Covid at the same time and she is also vaccinated. I have a well documented immune disorder that I am about to meet with a rheumatologist during this month for consultation. My wife has had to bring me to the hospital countless times because I am constantly getting infections. These are documented cases and I have the documents to back it up (not posting for obvious privacy reasons.) I survived because I got vaccinated, the same can not be said of the countless unvaccinated currently dying.


Noctosphere said:


> thanks for not providing link troll
> Guys, tag me whenever he provide a link please, in the mean time, I'm unfollowing this thread
> BTW, tabzer, you can tag me whenever you provide a link, not for anything else
> If you tag me for anything except than providing a link, I'll report you for it
> thank you


He won’t, he still hasn’t provided any links proving mass voter fraud


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It's plausible



I'm not saying that it isn't plausible.  It just flies off as speculative nonsense when it comes from the mouth of the undersecretary of peer-review.



Lacius said:


> Are you saying you accept the fact that the COVID-19 vaccines have saved a significant number of lives?



I accept the generalized statement that the vaccine has mitigated direct covid related injury, but I am unaware of the facts of complications that stem from the washing of humanity with a lifetime regiment of  pharmaceutical branding.



Lacius said:


> Do you accept the fact that hospitals are being overwhelmed by unvaccinated people at the expense of others?



I don't accept the rhetoric that is loaded behind the statement. A hospital's function should be to treat and help people, ideally speaking. Even before covid, I question the economic model that incentivizes their operations. I feel like that is a bigger issue, To introduce the question of _who is worthy_ to receive medical treatment is just another level of dystopia. Whether the statistics of what you are saying are misrepresented or accurate isn't even something I find very interesting.

What I found interesting, though, was your hyperbolic expression of a classification of people who do not exist, in order to leverage credibility for your position.  Propaganda 101.


The Catboy said:


> I survived because I got vaccinated, the same can not be said of the countless unvaccinated currently dying.



All I know for sure, is that you admit to being unsure of your own situation.  Maybe your issues stem from being afraid of dirt, or maybe having too many vaccinations and sterilizing agents introduced into your system.  Maybe the hospitals you frequent created the problem.  I don't know.  Nothing you offer is conclusive, even though it is apparent that you want to appear as so.

Guys, I'm really busy today.  I have to drink my piss at noon, and then I have to visit the doctor at 2.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I'm not saying that it isn't plausible.  It just flies off as speculative nonsense when it comes from the mouth of the undersecretary of peer-review.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's no evidence the vaccines are dangerous, and there's ample evidence they are safe.

If you actually believe "a hospital's function should be to treat and help people," you should get vaccinated, and you should advocate for as many people as possible also getting vaccinated. Because, in the meantime, people are having to wait in snowy parking lots instead of receiving the medical care they need due to the unvaccinated overrunning hospitals. This isn't about any particular economic model; it's about not having the resources to deal with an unprecedented number of people requiring care.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> If you actually believe "a hospital's function should be to treat and help people," you should get vaccinated, and you should advocate for as many people as possible also getting vaccinated.



Are you intentionally deaf to the point that how a hospital functions and how it should function are in disparity?  You are taking the "fake it 'til you make it" adage to absurdity.  It's not "fake it til they make it" afterall.  Or maybe you identify as a hospital, so it becomes "we"?



Lacius said:


> There's no evidence the vaccines are dangerous, and there's ample evidence they are safe.



Well that's just lying.  Risk is danger, and it is present.  You may be of the opinion that the risk is worth it.  Good for you, but propaganda.



Lacius said:


> This isn't about any particular economic model; it's about not having the resources to deal with an unprecedented number of people requiring care.



Whatever you say it is about, must be what it is about.  My opinion included, apparently.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Are you intentionally deaf to the point that how a hospital functions and how it should function are in disparity?  You are taking the "fake it 'til you make it" adage to absurdity.  It's not "fake it til they make it" afterall.  Or maybe you identify as a hospital, so it becomes "we"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's telling you ignored, and omitted from your quotations of my post, most of what I said about the unvaccinated overrunning hospitals and displacing others who require care, which is much the entire issue at this point in our conversation. Don't be disingenuous.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> All I know for sure, is that you admit to being unsure of your own situation.  Maybe your issues stem from being afraid of dirt, or maybe having too many vaccinations and sterilizing agents introduced into your system.  Maybe the hospitals you frequent created the problem.  I don't know.  Nothing you offer is conclusive, even though it is apparent that you want to appear as so.
> 
> Guys, I'm really busy today.  I have to drink my piss at noon, and then I have to visit the doctor at 2.


I was unaware that you knew my medical history better than I and my doctors do.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It's telling you ignored, and omitted from your quotations of my post, everything I said about the unvaccinated overrunning hospitals and displacing others who require care, which is much the entire issue at this point in our conversation. Don't be disingenuous.


I already told you that I don't respect the rhetoric that you introduce with such framing.  I also told you why.  I can't quantify how many points I've made that you have ignored, or misrepresented, so your soapbox doesn't translate to anything useful for me.



The Catboy said:


> I was unaware that you knew my medical history better than I and my doctors do.


You made it clear that your doctors do not know your medical situation.  "pending review" is the best I can gather of what you said.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I already told you that I don't respect the rhetoric that you introduce with such framing.  I also told you why.  I can't quantify how many points I've made that you have ignored, or misrepresented, so your soapbox doesn't translate to anything useful for me.
> 
> 
> You made it clear that your doctors do not know your medical situation.  "pending review" is the best I can gather of what you said.


Hospitals are being overwhelmed by the unvaccinated. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you and if you're unwilling to address it directly. I'm also sorry that history is unlikely to be kind to you.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Hospitals are being overwhelmed by the unvaccinated. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you and if you're unwilling to address it directly. I'm also sorry that history is unlikely to be kind to you.



It's not inconvenient for me.  I can go to the hospital if I want.  I just find that your really wanting to pit vaccinated people against unvaccinated people into a fight that will only yield losers to be a ridiculous endeavor.  I think if there was a total-sum financial incentive to cure Covid, it would actually happen.  The "in two weeks" into perpetuity isn't sustainable.  Stay out of the soothsaying business.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I already told you that I don't respect the rhetoric that you introduce with such framing.  I also told you why.  I can't quantify how many points I've made that you have ignored, or misrepresented, so your soapbox doesn't translate to anything useful for me.
> 
> 
> You made it clear that your doctors do not know your medical situation.  "pending review" is the best I can gather of what you said.


Requiring a specialist to properly diagnose a medical issue is what needs to be done when dealing with complicated medical conditions like immune disorders. We are well aware that there is an issue and that it needs treatment, we had that process hindered since 2020 because of Covid. Just because you don't understand the complicated nature of properly diagnosing complicated medical problems, does not mean we don't know what's going on.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Requiring a specialist to properly diagnose a medical issue is what needs to be done when dealing with complicated medical conditions like immune disorders. We are well aware that there is an issue and that it needs treatment, we've only had that process hindered since 2020 because of Covid. Just because you don't understand the complicated nature of properly diagnosing complicated medical problems, does not mean we don't know what's going on.


You are contradicting yourself.  I really hope you find a solution to your situation that provides you with a *better life going forward.   That being said, I am not doing you any favors by pretending that "knowing" and "not knowing" are a fluid preference that you can uptake whenever you want to decide to be right in a conversation.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I can go to the hospital if I want.


All over the country, people are sometimes waiting days in emergency rooms to be admitted. People are literally dying because of how overwhelmed hospitals are, particularly in rural areas that depend on services they need in urban centers. You're either delusional, or you need to check your privilege. Not only are many unvaccinated people dying from COVID-19, but they're taking others with them.

Unless there's a medical reason one can't be vaccinated, the choice to be unvaccinated isn't anything other than selfish, and the reasons for refusing the vaccine are grossly unscientific and irrational.



tabzer said:


> I just find that your really wanting to pit vaccinated people against unvaccinated people into a fight that will only yield losers to be a ridiculous endeavor.


The only thing that yields losers is the idiotic choice to refuse the vaccine for selfish reasons.



tabzer said:


> I think if there was a total-sum financial incentive to cure Covid, it would actually happen.


This is conspiracy theory nonsense, as usual.



tabzer said:


> The "in two weeks" into perpetuity isn't sustainable.  Stay out of the soothsaying business.


The "few weeks" scenario was about flattening the curve, and similar to what's happening with anti-vaxxers now, there were a lot of selfish people out there who helped to spread the virus instead of helping to flatten the curve.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> All over the country, people are sometimes waiting days in emergency rooms to be admitted. People are literally dying because of how overwhelmed hospitals are, particularly in rural areas that depend on services they need in urban centers. You're either delusional, or you need to check your privilege. Not only are many unvaccinated people dying from COVID-19, but they're taking others with them.
> 
> Unless there's a medical reason one can't be vaccinated, the choice to be unvaccinated isn't anything other than selfish, and the reasons for refusing the vaccine are grossly unscientific and irrational.


"All over the country."  Really?  Is that even true?  Maybe what you say doesn't apply to me or my country.  Check my privilege?   Why don't you cancel Starbucks instead.



Lacius said:


> The only thing that yields losers is the idiotic choice to refuse the vaccine for selfish reasons.


Uhuh, that's the only thing.  #vaccines4lyfe



Lacius said:


> This is conspiracy theory nonsense, as usual.


It's not proposing a conspiracy, nor is it really a theory.  It's kind of an economic law.


Lacius said:


> The "few weeks" scenario was about flattening the curve, and similar to what's happening with anti-vaxxers now, there were a lot of selfish people out there who helped to spread the virus instead of helping to flatten the curve.



You are misquoting me again, which might be intentional or you are just ignorant.  "In two weeks" is a meme of a popular marketing method in which a company promises a product to get investors on board.  After people buy into the "vaporware" the company says "in two weeks" in response to anybody requesting a timeframe or displaying general hesitance and uncertainty.  This is enough time for something else to arise and take up the periphery, in which a new questions occur.  Again, "two weeks", for a different issue, but still cumulative in the production of the original promise. 2-4 years later, the product is released, obsolete, or ineffective.  The company has to pay some fines, some losses in suits, but end up with a lot more money than they started out with.

That's what the pharmaceutical racket is doing.  It's a tried and working model, but it's not sustainable,_ for you_.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> "All over the country."  Really?  Is that even true?  Maybe what you say doesn't apply to me or my country.  Check my privilege?   Why don't you cancel Starbucks instead.
> 
> 
> Uhuh, that's the only thing.  #vaccines4lyfe
> ...


I'm aware the current hospitalization issue might not apply to everybody around the world, which is why I said you're either ignorant or privileged.

I have no idea what your point is about Starbucks. I've never been to one. I don't drink coffee.

With regard to the conversation, I can't think of bigger losers than those who suffer, directly or indirectly, as a result of people selfishly and foolishly refusing to get vaccinated.

To say "it would be cured if it were profitable" is a conspiracy theory, by any definition I'm aware of, and it and your anti-vax rhetoric should be embarrassing. There's a hospitalization crisis because of the unvaccinated, and this isn't up for debate. It's happening.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I'm aware the current hospitalization issue might not apply to everybody around the world, which is why I said you're either ignorant or privileged.



Right.  People in other countries are privileged.  Just say that you are envious and stop making it appear to be someone else's problem.  That's lame.  You said "all over the country", and I was interested in how true that hyperbolic statement was.  Of course it needs to be clarified, because you are spouting propaganda.



Lacius said:


> I can't think of bigger losers than those who suffer, directly or indirectly, as a result of people selfishly and foolishly refusing to get vaccinated.



Surprise, more propaganda.



Lacius said:


> To say "it would be cured if it were profitable" is a conspiracy theory, by any definition I'm aware of,



Then you don't seem to be aware of what a conspiracy is.  Economic incentive is not a conspiracy nor a theory.

Get back to me in two weeks, after the promise is delivered.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You are contradicting yourself.  I really hope you find a solution to your situation that provides you with a *better life going forward.   That being said, I am not doing you any favors by pretending that "knowing" and "not knowing" are a fluid preference that you can uptake whenever you want to decide to be right in a conversation.


At what point did I contradict myself? I didn’t say we didn’t know the issue, just that it’s not been diagnosed but things have narrowed down. We know it’s an immune disorder, we know it might be, and we know that it’s caused health complications that have put me in the hospital. Just because we don’t have the full diagnosis doesn’t mean that we don’t understand that there’s a problem.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> At what point did I contradict myself? I didn’t say we didn’t know the issue, just that it’s not been diagnosed and narrowed down. We know it’s an immune disorder, we know it might be, and we know that it’s caused health complications that have put me in the hospital. Just because we don’t have the full diagnosis doesn’t mean that we don’t understand that there’s a problem.



Stop trying to reinvent the konami code and get off it.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Stop trying to reinvent the konami code and get off it.


You brought my health into this, you brought my situation into this. This is once again your doing.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You brought my health into this, you brought my situation into this. This is once again your doing.



Lol.   I am solely responsible for the creation of "Catboy", whatever the F that is.  Sorry everyone.



The Catboy said:


> Just yesterday I finally tested negative for Covid. I tested positive right on December 30th. Covid was hands down the worst experience I had in my life. I am also lucky to have gotten vaccinated because I definitely would have died from it. I am immunocompromised and Covid was bad enough with all the vaccinations.
> 
> I am mostly a vegetarian and only eat fish occasionally. I can’t eat red meat because I am allergic to it. I also rarely leave my home due to my immune disorder. Now my immune disorder definitely played into how bad Covid was for me.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lol.   I am solely responsible for the creation of "Catboy", whatever the F that is.  Sorry everyone.


Ah yeah, just ignore your posts. I am good, have a day


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

Yep, just ignore the inconvenient facts and carry on being a contradictory mess.  That's the MO of you noisy little lot, isn't it?


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

On topic, definitely going to avoid doing anything unnecessary to avoid getting Covid again. There’s probably more things I can cut back on


----------



## stanna (Jan 15, 2022)

What's making me laugh is covid is spreading like wild fire through our town and it's all triple vaxed that are catching it  so much for the vaccine


----------



## Viri (Jan 15, 2022)

stanna said:


> What's making me laugh is covid is spreading like wild fire through our town and it's all triple vaxed that are catching it  so much for the vaccine


It's infecting my city like wild fire, and my city is like the highest vaxxed percentage inside my state.

I already caught Covid on Christmas, got over it, it wasn't that bad. I question if I should even bother getting vaxxed.

My entire family also caught Covid at the same time. My dad had it the worst, and he's the only one vaxxed/boosted out of us all.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> On topic, definitely going to avoid doing anything unnecessary to avoid getting Covid again.



Is "The Catboy" necessary?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Yep, just ignore the inconvenient facts and carry on being a contradictory mess.  That's the MO of you noisy little lot, isn't it?


The vaccine is safe, it's effective, and hospitals in the US are being overwhelmed by unvaccinated patients at the expense of others while the anti-vax crowd is now peddling drinking their own urine as yet another supposed "COVID cure." Americans are dying at a rate of approximately 2,000 people a day, and they're mostly unvaccinated.

I don't think we're the ones ignoring inconvenient facts.



stanna said:


> What's making me laugh is covid is spreading like wild fire through our town and it's all triple vaxed that are catching it  so much for the vaccine


A person who is triple vaxxed, although less likely than their unvaccinated counterparts to catch omicron, still have a significant chance of catching the disease. The good news is that a triple vaxxed person is likely to suffer milder symptoms than their unvaccinated counterparts, and they are significantly less likely to have to go to the hospital or die from it.

The genome of omicron is significantly different from preceding strains, which is why there have been so many breakthrough infections. The good news is the vaccine still offers a good amount of protection, particularly where it counts (i.e. not getting hospitalized or dying). An omicron-specific vaccine may be released around March, and the best way to reduce the odds of infection, the spread of the disease, the formation of new variants, hospitalization, or death is to get vaccinated. If one hasn't been vaccinated, now is the time to do it.



Viri said:


> It's infecting my city like wild fire, and my city is like the highest vaxxed percentage inside my state.
> 
> I already caught Covid on Christmas, got over it, it wasn't that bad. I question if I should even bother getting vaxxed.
> 
> My entire family also caught Covid at the same time. My dad had it the worst, and he's the only one vaxxed/boosted out of us all.


Even if a city is highly vaccinated, that's only part of the story. If it has a high population density, for example, then it may have higher rates of infection than a rural area with a lower vaccination rate. These variables need to be kept in mind. It's easy to imagine how worse your city could have been if the vaccination rate weren't as high as it is.

I'm glad your symptoms weren't that bad, and that seems to be the case with a lot of people catching omicron, but getting vaccinated would have likely made your symptoms milder, and vaccination is the best way to avoid infection, hospitalization, and death. I don't know when you or your family members were infected, but it could be that some of your family members might not have been infected if some who weren't vaccinated had been vaccinated.

Worse symptoms, hospitalization, and death are still mostly happening in older folks and people with other underlying health conditions, so it isn't surprising that your father, someone who is probably significantly older than you, had it worse even though he was vaccinated. If he had it really bad and was vaccinated, then I would hate to imagine what it could have been like for him if he hadn't been vaccinated.

There are a lot of variables that affect how bad COVID-19 is for a person, so instead of focusing on anecdotes, it's important to look at the larger numbers. It's easy to look at your family situation and say "the vaccine does nothing" or "the vaccines makes things worse," but that isn't a very good sample size. The actual data is clear: The vaccines are safe, effective, and highly recommended.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Is "The Catboy" necessary?


Considering I actually help this community and do more than spread nonsense, I would say that I am. I don’t think you would be missed if you stopped logging in


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## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Considering I actually help this community and do more than spread nonsense, I would say that I am. I don’t think you would be missed if you stopped logging in


I'd miss you if you left.

Before editing this post, I said I wouldn't miss @tabzer, but that wasn't fair. I'd miss him if he were gone, which is one of the many reason why I wish he would get vaccinated.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 15, 2022)

stanna said:


> What's making me laugh is covid is spreading like wild fire through our town and it's all triple vaxed that are catching it  so much for the vaccine


Don't spread such conspiracy and lies now, just because you can still get the virus even if everyone's vaccinated, doesn't mean you shouldn't get 77 jabs now.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Don't spread such conspiracy and lies now, just because you can still get the virus even if everyone's vaccinated, doesn't mean you shouldn't get 77 jabs now.


You picked an article from June, back when we were just starting to become more aware of new mutations. Vaccines aren’t as effective when a virus mutates and that’s why boosters are important. There are a lot of active efforts to make vaccines more effective as we deal with the still rapidly virus.
A lot of people have also been treating being vaccinated as a free pass to be reckless and this has lead to Covid still spreading amongst vaccinated people.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Don't spread such conspiracy and lies now, just because you can still get the virus even if everyone's vaccinated, doesn't mean you shouldn't get 77 jabs now.



This wasn't an outbreak. Two passengers who roomed together tested positive, and as far as I'm aware, that's it. People are less likely to contract the disease if they're vaccinated, and since this was before delta, those suffering breakthrough infections were also less likely to spread the disease. Vaccines work, and it isn't difficult to imagine what an outbreak might have looked like if the vaccination rate had been lower.
Both passengers who tested positive were asymptomatic, which may have been the case because they were vaccinated. As we know, a person is likely to experience milder symptoms if they're vaccinated.
Nobody has seriously suggested getting 77 vaccine doses. More likely, the vaccine is going to become something we get once or twice a year, similar to the flu shot.
The vaccine is safe and effective, and it is highly recommended that you get it. The scientific data is clear, and we can see that the vast majority of the approximately 2,000 Americans dying everyday from COVID-19 are unvaccinated.

If you think history is going to be kind to those who use horse-dewormer, take borax baths, and drink their own urine instead of getting vaccinated, all at the expense of those who can't get timely access to medical care because the unvaccinated are overwhelming hospitals right now, then I have a bridge to sell you.

At this point, those who selfishly refuse to get vaccinated are pathetic, and even if they don't care about their own health, they lack basic human empathy.


----------



## Psionic Roshambo (Jan 15, 2022)

I voted yes, but I have never been tested... I was working in ER's at a larger hospital in Florida since before it was here in the US. The reason I believe I had it was that quite literally I had so many people with confirmed cases cough directly in my face I honestly couldn't put a real number to it (in the hundreds easy) and those surgical masks only do so much.  I did have a mild fever one day like 99F for like 4 hours then I felt fine. I suspect I was in the 50% that have almost no symptoms. Since then I have gotten all my shots so that's nice. 

Still recommend people get the shots, even though I have little faith in them. Any help is better than nothing, wear masks social distance as much as possible and all that. Although at this point it looks like the CDC has given up on fighting this thing.


----------



## stanna (Jan 15, 2022)

The triple vaxxed are living through covid because of the vaccine  fuck that makes laugh


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

stanna said:


> The triple vaxxed are living through covid because of the vaccine  fuck that makes laugh


The vaccines have prevented an estimated 1.1 million deaths and 10.3 million hospitalizations in the United States alone. The vast majority of the approximately 2,000 COVID-19 deaths in the United States are unvaccinated.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 15, 2022)

I suppose that article is a bit dated, but there are more articles that vaccines do completely work, so the unvaccinated should get it and stop clogging up the hospitals. Selfish bastards.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I suppose that article is a bit dated, but there are more articles that vaccines do completely work, so the unvaccinated should get it and stop clogging up the hospitals. Selfish bastards.


The vaccine is not 100% effective, but it is effective. And, as I've point out numerous times, the vaccine is very likely to keep people out of the hospital. The vast majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The vaccine is not 100% effective, but it is effective. And, as I've point out numerous times, the vaccine is very likely to keep people out of the hospital. The vast majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated.


It's disappointing that we can keep repeating the same thing and even provide evidence to counter all of the nonsense posted and yet get nowhere. Honestly, it's more upsetting the people posting the nonsense will literally do so without a single credible source and somehow people take them seriously. Or worse, post sources that are either outdated or completely contradict the point they are trying to make.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 16, 2022)

I've never got Covid-19.

I always had testing available. Before I got vaccinated I got tested around twice a week, it was a requirement for being able to go shopping, restaurants, etc. After I got vaccinated I only got tested before and after flights and sometimes if I felt kind of sick. Still, always negative. I have a booster by the way. To be honest, I am tired of all this shit.

I find value to the vaccination due to the initial health emergency; I know vaccination has saved a lot of people... but then there is this situation lately, like the validity of your "vaccination certificate" suddenly being reduced from the intended 1 year to 9 months, and even then still not fully valid because right now, only 4 months after having completed the scheme, if I didn't have a booster I would once again have downgraded rights (as needing an additional test if you don't have a booster, German 2G and 2G+).

I feel like all this more or less forced "booster every 4 months" business is stretching it... it smells too much of lobbying and taking advantage of the situation to make good profits; I think the situation is getting twisted... anyway that is my opinion, and I think it may be a controversial one.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 16, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> I've never got Covid-19.
> 
> I always had testing available. Before I got vaccinated I got tested around twice a week, it was a requirement for being able to go shopping, restaurants, etc. After I got vaccinated I only got tested before and after flights and sometimes if I felt kind of sick. Still, always negative. I have a booster by the way. To be honest, I am tired of all this shit.
> 
> ...


*Actually it's very interesting.*
You pointed out interesting ideas that _might_ be true.

What if all of this is now a plan to get money? No, I'm not making fun of it, but it actually could make sense since there's still this paranoia everywhere in the world with new variants.

Also... 4 month boosts? That's a bit... too soon no?
I thought that they were supposed to be every 6 months, so 2 per year which seems logical as that's how Flu Shots are being handled (at least in my place)

About  your idea I discussed earlier, I mean, it makes sense that pharmaceutics are trying to make money with the vaccines, but yet it's a contradictory statement in my case, because the government is giving the shots free, and they have always been free in my country. If all of this suddenly turned into a plan to sell more shots to governments, then, the government is loosing huge quantities of money giving the shots for free.

Aside of that, there's already a pill against COVID-19 *(PFIZER'S PAXLOVID)*... which by the way... haven't heard any news of.
In my opinion, when we get the pill against the virus, it might soothe the world situation.
Oh, got infected with Covid? Go to the nearest pharmacy and buy the pill, instead of flooding hospitals with people that requires oxygen. I think this is the point where everything wil return to "normal".


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> *Actually it's very interesting.*
> You pointed out interesting ideas that _might_ be true.
> 
> What if all of this is now a plan to get money? No, I'm not making fun of it, but it actually could make sense since there's still this paranoia everywhere in the world with new variants.
> ...


In the United States, Pfizer boosters are down to five months after the initial two doses, but this is a direct consequence of omicron.

We have pills now that reduce the odds of going to the hospital or dying by around 90%, but they're only effective if taken early, some of the pills have the potential for side effects and don't mix well with other medications, and (probably most importantly), supplies are scarce. The pills are great, but they aren't a substitute for vaccination.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 16, 2022)

Yeah, a pill that works when you're sick instead of preventive vaccination would be great, to be honest... not sure if it would be more effective or not, but more than anything it will end this stupid divide in society. It is no good to have social rifts for everything, and segregation is never good.

But anyway, and going back to the "booster every 4 months" stuff.
At least here it is not clear what the future will be like, so how soon will you be required to have a *second* booster I can't say; what is clear up to now are the following statements that apply to Germany:

Most people completed the vaccination scheme around July or August (well, at least those that wanted to get vaccinated)
According to the new rules, starting yesterday if you don't have a booster and you want to e.g. go to a restaurant, you need to either get one or do an additional test (2G+).
That means that if you got vaccinated at the end of August, right now little more than 4 month later you need a booster.
You can get a booster for free if you got vaccinated 3 months ago or earlier. (well, nothing is free, money comes from your taxes)


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> but this is a direct consequence of omicron.


Oh, forgot about this variant. Makes sense.


Lacius said:


> In the United States, Pfizer boosters are down to five months after the initial two doses, but this is a direct consequence of omicron.
> 
> We have pills now that reduce the odds of going to the hospital or dying by around 90%, but they're only effective if taken early, some of the pills have the potential for side effects and don't mix well with other medications, and (probably most importantly), supplies are scarce. The pills are great, but they aren't a substitute for vaccination.


No no, not any pill. Let me see if I can find something about the Anticovid Pill: I CAN'T FIND NEWS IN ENGLISH BUT IT'S NAMED; *Pfizer's Paxlovid*



sarkwalvein said:


> Yeah, a pill that works when you're sick instead of preventive vaccination would be great, to be honest... not sure if it would be more effective or not, but more than anything it will end this stupid divide in society. It is no good to have social rifts for everything, and segregation is never good.


*Pfizer's Paxlovid*


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> Oh, forgot about this variant. Makes sense.
> 
> No no, not any pill. Let me see if I can find something about the Anticovid Pill: I CAN'T FIND NEWS IN ENGLISH BUT IT'S NAMED; *Pfizer's Paxlovid*
> 
> ...


That's the pill I'm referencing.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> That's the pill I'm referencing.


 haha sorry.
Your avatar makes it more funny that it probably is.


----------



## Marc_LFD (Jan 16, 2022)

No.

If I'd have it, I'd know.

Living in fear does no good to you.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The vaccine is not 100% effective, but it is effective. And, as I've point out numerous times, the vaccine is very likely to keep people out of the hospital. The vast majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated.


Hey man I totally and completely agree with you 100%. It's clear that more people die from being unvaccinated rather than getting vaccinated, and even if the vaccine isn't fully effective, it does appear to be effective enough to stop any kind of outbreaks. All these racist conspiracy theories need to stop once and for all!


----------



## Bagel Le Stinky (Jan 16, 2022)

not that I know of


----------



## stanna (Jan 16, 2022)

https://www.banned.video/watch?id=61defadf65f4006c07e17fd3


----------



## stanna (Jan 16, 2022)

https://www.banned.video/watch?id=61df784eae95bf6e8f3edc68


----------



## tabzer (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The vaccine is



Not without risk.  Some side effects are life threatening and undetermined.  If you suffer complications due to the vaccine, the liability falls on, you, or the person electing to take the vaccine.

Of course the companies will stake their criminal reputations on the "safe and effectiveᵀᴹ" but they won't stake their $.

Essentially they are covered in the event that it is a massive failure.  And you will just shrug your shoulders and say that it's a feature of science if confronted.

The strongest advocates, in this forum, seem to be people who think they won't survive without doctors pumping them with meds every so often.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Hey man I totally and completely agree with you 100%. It's clear that more people die from being unvaccinated rather than getting vaccinated,


Most people who die from COVID-19 are elderly and/or have other comorbidities like high blood pressure, cancer, etc. That has nothing to do with the fact that the vast majority of people who die from COVID-19 in the United States are unvaccinated.



tabzer said:


> Not without risk.  Some side effects are life threatening and undetermined.


I agree with you that there's a risk of side effects. However, the odds of your side effects being life-threatening are vanishingly small. In fact, I'm not sure we have a confirmed case of a single person dying from the mRNA vaccines, but somebody can correct me if I'm mistaken.

You might as well be arguing that a seatbelt could cause you to die in a car accident. Sure, that's possible, and it has happened before, but the benefits of wearing a seatbelt far outweigh the risk. The only thing that makes this a false analogy is that a seatbelt protects only you; a vaccine helps to protect you and other people around you.



tabzer said:


> The strongest advocates, in this forum, seem to be people who think they won't survive without doctors pumping them with meds every so often.


Modern medicine is often life-saving, but I'm not surprised that you had to resort to arguing against medicine broadly in order to defend your boneheaded position against vaccines. We know the COVID-19 vaccines alone have probably saved an estimated 1.1 million lives in the United States.

I'm young and in good health, so I don't believe I was at a high risk of severe symptoms or death when I had COVID-19 a year ago. It was very mild. At this point in time, I don't believe the COVID-19 vaccine has literally saved my life. However, it offers me extra protection, and it helps protect those around me as well. There are also plenty of people who aren't as young or as healthy as I am who would be rational in thinking the COVID-19 vaccine may have actually saved their lives.

Given its safety and efficacy, I don't know why anyone wouldn't get vaccinated.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Not without risk.  Some side effects are life threatening and undetermined.  If you suffer complications due to the vaccine, the liability falls on, you, or the person electing to take the vaccine.


Can you actually post a source showing that the side effects are life-threatening?


----------



## mightymuffy (Jan 16, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Can you actually post a source showing that the side effects are life-threatening?


Yawn yawn, here we go again from this member.... lemme guess, you don't believe the sun is 93 million miles away from the earth unless you actually see a fukkin astronaut going up there with with a tape measure in his hand?

Like has been mentioned before on previous threads, yet you somehow seem to miss it, how on this fukkin earth do you expect to actually SEE a 'credible source' posting said information on this, given the agenda the governments have taken, and the nature of the information?! Do you really expect, for example, in the obviously massively unlikely event that the vaccine is using dna from unborn aborted fetus, that the governments of the world will hold their hands up in the near future and say 'Well yeah, they do contain it, but never mind - oops a daisy!' - ?? - 
But no, you carry on posting 'I need proof!' 'I need proooooff!' - does it sounds cool in your head or something?!

Sort of related, one of the lads that used to work for me had his 3rd vax. No issues with the first 2, yet 15 minutes after taking the 3rd his right arm went numb from the jab region downwards. To the point where he can't move it at all. That was 4 weeks ago, and now he cannot work. Doctors tests cannot find the reason for this. Do you expect him to receive 'proof' this happened due to the vaccine? Did you expect to hear news like this posted on whatever major news site you read? Think about it for God's sake....


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2022)

mightymuffy said:


> Yawn yawn, here we go again from this member.... lemme guess, you don't believe the sun is 93 million miles away from the earth unless you actually see a fukkin astronaut going up there with with a tape measure in his hand?
> 
> Like has been mentioned before on previous threads, yet you somehow seem to miss it, how on this fukkin earth do you expect to actually SEE a 'credible source' posting said information on this, given the agenda the governments have taken, and the nature of the information?! Do you really expect, for example, in the obviously massively unlikely event that the vaccine is using dna from unborn aborted fetus, that the governments of the world will hold their hands up in the near future and say 'Well yeah, they do contain it, but never mind - oops a daisy!' - ?? -
> But no, you carry on posting 'I need proof!' 'I need proooooff!' - does it sounds cool in your head or something?!
> ...


The claim was that there have been life-threatening side-effects, that claim should be able to be backed up with evidence. Having some strongly worded post trying to discredit my character for asking for evidence does nothing more than giving a free pass for erroneous claims. I've shown multiple times that I am willing to change my opinion when given evidence. As for previous posts, most of the links provided were literally far-right conspiracies that credited either back to itself or to another conspiracy. The claims were not from any reliable sources and I will point that out when presented. It shouldn't be hard to provide sources. If there have been life-threatening side effects, then they should be documented and available.
Side effects and reactions to vaccines or even needles are a known complications and have yet to be shown to be permanent beyond a few rare cases of individuals already having preexisting conditions. These warning are given before the shot is administered. If it’s gone this long, I strongly doubt it was the vaccine is the issue and there’s most likely an unrecognized underlining medical condition. Vaccine side effects do not last more than a few hours to a few days at most


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## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

mightymuffy said:


> Yawn yawn, here we go again from this member.... lemme guess, you don't believe the sun is 93 million miles away from the earth unless you actually see a fukkin astronaut going up there with with a tape measure in his hand?


We have scientific evidence that the sun is approximately 93 million miles from the Earth (on average). @The Catboy's point was that we don't have scientific evidence that the vaccines are life-threatening.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

mightymuffy said:


> Like has been mentioned before on previous threads, yet you somehow seem to miss it, how on this fukkin earth do you expect to actually SEE a 'credible source' posting said information on this, given the agenda the governments have taken, and the nature of the information?! Do you really expect, for example, in the obviously massively unlikely event that the vaccine is using dna from unborn aborted fetus, that the governments of the world will hold their hands up in the near future and say 'Well yeah, they do contain it, but never mind - oops a daisy!' - ?? -


This is unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense. You're proposing a massive conspiracy and coverup that are irrational and unsupported by evidence.


----------



## 0x3000027E (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> This is unsubstantiated conspiracy theory nonsense. You're proposing a massive conspiracy and coverup that are irrational and unsupported by evidence.


Hmm...I love the people that elevate government officials to the level of 'mastermind'. As if these individuals in DC are somehow able to conduct global-level conspiracies far beyond the reaches of our imaginations. Schumer and McConnel, the _brightest_ among us, devising intricate plans our peasant minds are not even capable of understanding.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 16, 2022)

0x3000027E said:


> Hmm...I love the people that elevate government officials to the level of 'mastermind'. As if these individuals in DC are somehow able to conduct global-level conspiracies far beyond the reaches of our imaginations. Schumer and McConnel, the _brightest_ among us, devising intricate plans our peasant minds are not even capable of understanding.


These are the same people who believe in nonsense like mass voter fraud and secret government vampires. We aren’t dealing with people who are based in reality.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I agree with you that there's a risk of side effects.



Then it should be real simple to say that.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Then it should be real simple to say that.


I've been acknowledging the risk of side effects since the vaccines became available, so don't act like I haven't. However, that's not the same thing as saying the side effects are "potentially life threatening." By every objective measure, being unvaccinated is significantly more life threatening than getting vaccinated.

I'll take your post to be a concession.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Modern medicine is often life-saving, but I'm not surprised that you had to resort to arguing against medicine broadly in order to defend your boneheaded position against vaccines.


This crossed my mind, when they were making "Big Pharma" conspiracies. Wasn't expecting him to confirmed it, without me even saying anything. I guess anti-piller is next.

The sad thing is, there is a problem with healthcare, just not this "fake or too dangerous vaccine" nonsense they are talking about. Too bad they are most likely to vote against making healthcare cheaper and more accessible.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 16, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I've been acknowledging the risk of side effects since the vaccines became available, so don't act like I haven't. However, that's not the same thing as saying the side effects are "potentially life threatening." By every objective measure, being unvaccinated is significantly more life threatening than getting vaccinated.
> 
> I'll take your post to be a concession.


Side effects are potentially life threatening.  I'm sorry that fact is inconvenient for you.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Side effects are potentially life threatening.  I'm sorry that fact is inconvenient for you.


I haven't seen any evidence of anyone dying, or even having long-term side effects, from the mRNA vaccines, and even if you were to provide some evidence of these things, it wouldn't be any different than claiming seatbelts are potentially life threatening. The odds would be so low that remaining unvaccinated is what's "potentially life threatening." It isn't the other way around, even though it's inconvenient for your anti-vax position.


----------



## stanna (Jan 16, 2022)

My mum was scared to death by all the media lies and was scared to death of covid couldn't wait to get the jabs, she didn't want to know when I told her of all the side effects, first jab made her ill for 4 days, second jab late afternoon, she woke next morning septicemia in her leg from foot to knee, it was swollen twice the size and burning hot it took 6 weeks of bed rest and multiple antibiotics to cure, she still would not even accept it might be vaccine related, then months later boosted time, again next day septicemia in her leg and also in her chest and neck, she went to the doctors and he even said it's the vaccine it kills your immune system, she now says no more.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 16, 2022)

stanna said:


> My mum was scared to death by all the media lies and was scared to death of covid couldn't wait to get the jabs, she didn't want to know when I told her of all the side effects, first jab made her ill for 4 days, second jab late afternoon, she woke next morning septicemia in her leg from foot to knee, it was swollen twice the size and burning hot it took 6 weeks of bed rest and multiple antibiotics to cure, she still would not even accept it might be vaccine related, then months later boosted time, again next day septicemia in her leg and also in her chest and neck, she went to the doctors and he even said it's the vaccine it kills your immune system, she now says no more.


There's no scientific evidence that the vaccines cause sepsis, and a doctor who says the vaccine "kills your immune system" doesn't know what they're talking about. Contracting COVID-19 can lead to viral sepsis, so the vaccine is highly recommended to reduce the risks of that. Being prone to viral or bacterial sepsis is also all the more reason to get vaccinated, since that's the kind of comorbidity that could lead to an increased risk of death from COVID-19.


----------



## smf (Jan 16, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> *Covid-19 will be the exact same as the flu.*
> I mean, I'm not an expert... but  regardless of how much we take care of ourselves, we will get it eventually at some point of our lives.
> And then, you'll be able to say: _"It's just another flu"_


It's expected that it will become endemic.

That doesn't mean the same as "it's just another flu", it's still highly contagious.

All the restrictions, vaccines etc aren't to prevent us all catching it. The point is to make sure all the police, teachers, nurses, doctors etc don't catch it at the same time.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 17, 2022)

smf said:


> It's expected that it will become endemic.


Well... yeah. I mean, it's obvious.
And I personally believe this year will happen, that is, Covid being Endemic,
The virus is mutating rapidly.

Unless something terrible happens like, a mutation that reverses back to being super deadly, but that'd be us (humans) having awfully terrible luck.

Also... all of this could be already endemic if people stopped fucking traveling. The guy that brought Omicron to my country was a stupid fucking South African that came for "Business".
And personally interned himself to a Covid facility. 
Now that I think of it, can we blame the rich people for all this mess? I mean, they were the ones flying from place to place infecting everyone.


----------



## smf (Jan 17, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> Also... all of this could be already endemic if people stopped fucking traveling. The guy that brought Omicron to my country was a stupid fucking South African that came for "Business".


Omicron is so contagious that it probably won't become endemic until it's literally everywhere.


----------



## JeepX87 (Jan 17, 2022)

Yes, I caught Covid Omicron and currently sick since Wednesday night, started with post nasal drip and mild sore throat, progressed fatigue, mild cough and moderate sore throat on Thursday morning, bad cough and severe sore throat on Friday and Saturday and cough started to subsided on Sunday but still have sore throat and congestion.

My experience with Covid Omicron is very, very, very bad colds, alternating with bronchitis then went back to bad colds after cough subsided.

I'm fully vaccinated with booster last October.

I believe that I got Covid at eye hospital or allergy department at other hospital on last Monday, also of course, I wear mask but still caught Omicron.


----------



## KingVamp (Jan 17, 2022)

Forgot to mention.


0x3000027E said:


> Hmm...I love the people that elevate government officials to the level of 'mastermind'. As if these individuals in DC are somehow able to conduct global-level conspiracies far beyond the reaches of our imaginations. Schumer and McConnel, the _brightest_ among us, devising intricate plans our peasant minds are not even capable of understanding.


Except them, of course. They are the only ones that out mastermind the masterminds.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Most people who die from COVID-19 are elderly and/or have other comorbidities like high blood pressure, cancer, etc. That has nothing to do with the fact that the vast majority of people who die from COVID-19 in the United States are unvaccinated.


Once again, you are totally and completely right. I mean, the information about covid deaths before because of comorbidities was not blocked by the medical professionals and the media for the past 2 years, as they have always been transparent from day one and have not called out people who have said so "conspiracy theorists" in order to silence them. That has never happened. As for the unvaccinated, I don't know why they still won't get the jab, I mean, what's not to trust from these people? Especially from someone like Dr.Fauci, a man who I would trust me life to.



The Catboy said:


> Can you actually post a source showing that the side effects are life-threatening?


Nope, because there is absolutely no side-effects on any of the vaccines at all. So shut up and shoot up!


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Side effects are potentially life threatening.  I'm sorry that fact is inconvenient for you.


Source? Literally one source


BitMasterPlus said:


> Nope, because there is absolutely no side-effects on any of the vaccines at all. So shut up and shoot up!


The Epoch Times and YouTube are not trustworthy sources. Both are known for spreading misinformation. This is coupled with the fact that I’ve acknowledged that the vaccines have side-effects but none have been reported to be “life-threatening.” It’s worth noting that you didn’t even provide sources to back up the claim that they are life-threatening.


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## BitMasterPlus (Jan 17, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Source? Literally one source
> 
> The Epoch Times and YouTube are not trustworthy sources. Both are known for spreading misinformation. This is coupled with the fact that I’ve acknowledged that the vaccines have side-effects but none have been reported to be “life-threatening.” It’s worth noting that you didn’t even provide sources to back up the claim that they are life-threatening.


Well it's a good thing to see you're a very reasonable person that doesn't pick and choose their sources based on what they "feel" like is a good source or not, so thanks for understanding!


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I mean, the information about covid deaths before because of comorbidities was not blocked by the medical professionals and the media for the past 2 years


Nobody hid this information.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Nope, because there is absolutely no side-effects on any of the vaccines at all. So shut up and shoot up!


There is a significant risk of side effects, but they are usually mild, and the odds of them being life-threatening are vanishingly small (if not zero). Nobody hid this information either.

I suggest you do some research before attempting to make sarcastic quips.


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## Donnie-Burger (Jan 17, 2022)

No covid

No vax, no boosters

Healthy AF like always - Just letting my iummune system do its work like terrans been doing forever

God bless you all


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I haven't seen any evidence of anyone dying, or even having long-term side effects, from the mRNA vaccines, and even if you were to provide some evidence of these things, it wouldn't be any different than claiming seatbelts are potentially life threatening. The odds would be so low that remaining unvaccinated is what's "potentially life threatening." It isn't the other way around, even though it's inconvenient for your anti-vax position.




Driving a car is dangerous.  A seatbelt is not 

Suggesting that Pfizer is selling seatbelts for our Corona cars is not objective.  That's like saying that you are the virus or occupy the space inside it.

Not catching corona is infinitely better and less risk to your health than getting vaccinated.  That's a statistical fact.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Nobody hid this information.
> 
> 
> There is a significant risk of side effects, but they are usually mild, and the odds of them being life-threatening are vanishingly small (if not zero). Nobody hid this information either.
> ...


Of course nothing's been suppressed, duh. Neither has any side effects. I'm totally not being sarcastic my good man.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

Donnie-Burger said:


> No covid
> 
> No vax, no boosters
> 
> ...


I'm glad you're doing well, but a few things:

People infected with COVID-19 can be asymptomatic, particularly when they're young and healthy, so you don't know for sure you never had it.

The vaccine is highly recommended, regardless of how "healthy AF" you are, since it will reduce the risk of becoming infected, getting sick, getting hospitalized, or dying. Regardless of how healthy you are, it is still possible to get sick, which could entail mild symptoms, moderate symptoms, severe symptoms, or death; your odds of getting seriously sick are less because you're healthy, but they aren't zero, and they'd be even less if you were to get vaccinated. A lot of people talk about how it's mostly the elderly getting seriously sick and dying from COVID-19, but when you look at the numbers, the difference in mortality between the old and the young is comparable to the difference in mortality between the unvaccinated and the vaccinated.

Just because you're healthy now doesn't mean you will be healthy forever. In fact, it's often the person who says "I'm healthy AF as always" who isn't proactive about their health. They don't go to the doctor, wear a coat in the cold, or get a vaccine because they're "tough." These are the same people, for example, who have undiagnosed and untreated high blood pressure (which could make COVID-19 significantly worse), get sick because they didn't wear a coat and were more likely to catch an infectious disease from someone, or get sick because they didn't get vaccinated. COVID-19 and other diseases don't care how masculine you are or how "healthy AF" you claim to be.

Even if you're generally healthy and unconcerned about how the virus is likely to affect you, that doesn't take into account your ability to spread the virus to others who might not be "healthy AF." If you want to reduce your odds of getting infected, getting seriously sick, or spreading illness to others who might not be able to handle the disease as well as you, you should get vaccinated. The vaccine is safe and effective.

The human immune system is great, but modern medicine makes it even better. The vaccine doesn't fight off a COVID-19 infection; it trains your own immune system to do it quicker and more effectively on its own. We also know what the world was like before vaccines, antibiotics, etc., and there were significantly more human deaths when our natural immune systems had to go at it alone.



tabzer said:


> Driving a car is dangerous.  A seatbelt is not
> 
> Suggesting that Pfizer is selling seatbelts for our Corona cars is not objective.  That's like saying that you are the virus or occupy the space inside it.


People have died in car accidents because they were wearing seatbelts. That doesn't mean it's rational to not wear one, since you're significantly more likely to die without one. And, as I mentioned previously, this analogy is only bad because a seatbelt only protects you. If your choice to wear a seatbelt also helped protect the people around you, then it would be more analogous to the vaccines.



tabzer said:


> Not catching corona is infinitely better and less risk to your health than getting vaccinated.  That's a statistical fact.


Not getting in a car accident is infinitely better than wearing a seatbelt. That's a statistical fact.

Unless you can remove yourself from society (you have my permission to do so), you can't guarantee that you won't be infected with COVID-19. When you look at the numbers and accept that you live in a world with other people from whom you could catch COVID-19, not getting the vaccine is significantly riskier for your health than getting the vaccine.

With respect, you don't appear to have thought this through.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Of course nothing's been suppressed, duh. Neither has any side effects. I'm totally not being sarcastic my good man.


What evidence do you have of side effects being suppressed?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Not getting in a car accident is infinitely better than wearing a seatbelt. That's a statistical fact.



That's correct.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> What evidence do you have of side effects being suppressed?


Iunno, definitely not in an article I linked in a post, unless some don't know how to actually read. But that's not the case here since people here are geniuses.


----------



## Donnie-Burger (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I'm glad you're doing well, but a few things:
> 
> People infected with COVID-19 can be asymptomatic, particularly when they're young and healthy, so you don't know for sure you never had it.
> 
> ...


This made me laugh.  TY for caring.  God bless us all.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> That's correct.


Unfortunately, a lot of people think they're better drivers than they actually are. In addition, a single driver is only in control of one car amongst the countless others on the road, and that's not even taking into account severe weather, mechanical failures, etc. Saying "not getting in a car accident is infinitely better than wearing a seatbelt" as a justification for not wearing a seatbelt is to be irrational just plain stupid, and the same goes for not getting vaccinated for the same reason. Thank you for helping me make my point.



BitMasterPlus said:


> Iunno, definitely not in an article I linked in a post, unless some don't know how to actually read. But that's not the case here since people here are geniuses.


I must have missed it. In fairness, I would have had to wade through a lot of bullshit you've posted in order to find it. Could you please describe the specific side effects that you're talking about and provide reputable scientific or medical research that demonstrates them to be real? Thank you.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I must have missed it. In fairness, I would have had to wade through a lot of bullshit you've posted in order to find it. Could you please describe the specific side effects that you're talking about and provide reputable scientific or medical research that demonstrates them to be real? Thank you.


Apologies for my posts being too long and hard for you to read. I just assumed that since you type out long responses, you must read long ones too. But of course, someone of your intelligence surely doesn't need an anti-vaxx bigot like me to hold your hand like a toddler and lead you through and article you can easily read now, right? Of course not, because you're the smartest person I know on here. It's not like certain people on here ask for sources and either don't read or just flat out refuse them because they don't like what they have to say and or it doesn't agree with their views or anything.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Apologies for my posts being too long and hard for you to read. I just assumed that since you type out long responses, you must read long ones too. But of course, someone of your intelligence surely doesn't need an anti-vaxx bigot like me to hold your hand like a toddler and lead you through and article you can easily read now, right? Of course not, because you're the smartest person I know on here. It's not like certain people on here ask for sources and either don't read or just flat out refuse them because they don't like what they have to say and or it doesn't agree with their views or anything.


I can tell from the general attitude of your last post that I've struck a nerve, and that was not my intention. My point was that the hyperlinks in your sarcastic text were often irrelevant and/or disreputable.

I also prefer to have conversations, not to trade links without context. If your point is that there are side effects to the vaccines that are being covered up, please articulate what those side effects are, and then please provide evidence that's reputable. We don't need to get off track.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Unfortunately, a lot of people think they're better drivers than they actually are. In addition, a single driver is only in control of one car amongst the countless others on the road, and that's not even taking into account severe weather, mechanical failures, etc. Saying "not getting in a car accident is infinitely better than wearing a seatbelt" as a justification for not wearing a seatbelt is to be irrational just plain stupid, and the same goes for not getting vaccinated for the same reason. Thank you for helping me make my point.



That's incorrect.  Calling people cars is, as you say, irrational.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> That's incorrect.  Calling people cars is, as you say, irrational.


I don't think I said people are cars, but I understand why you feel the need to misrepresent what I said. Your position depends on it.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I don't think I said people are cars, but I understand why you feel the need to misrepresent what I said. Your position depends on it.



You might want to think about thinking a little harder, or fix your broken analogy.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You might want to think about thinking a little harder, or fix your broken analogy.


I already said the analogy was broken, but not in the way you think. It's broken because your choice to wear a seatbelt only protects you, not the people around you. The vaccine offers protection to you and the people around you.

You're arguing the vaccine is potentially deadly, but that either isn't true, or it's so unlikely that it's comparable to the odds of dying in a car accident because you were wearing a seatbelt. Nobody would seriously use the argument of "some people have died because they were wearing a seatbelt" to not wear a seatbelt, and nobody should use your argument to not get vaccinated.

Where is the problem?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I already said the analogy was broken, but not in the way you think. It's broken because your choice to wear a seatbelt only protects you, not the people around you. The vaccine offers protection to you and the people around you.
> 
> You're arguing the vaccine is potentially deadly, but that either isn't true, or it's so unlikely that it's comparable to the odds of dying in a car accident because you were wearing a seatbelt. Nobody would seriously use the argument of "some people have died because they were wearing a seatbelt" to not wear a seatbelt, and nobody should use your argument to not get vaccinated.
> 
> Where is the problem?



People aren't cars.  You mentioned something about being "objective" but you are tossing around statistics of unrelated scenarios and then conflating them.  Also you are passively admitting that you aren't interested in keeping yourself informed with vaccine related death or injury.

99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.

It's also a racket.  Have you purchased stock in Pfizer?


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I can tell from the general attitude of your last post that I've struck a nerve, and that was not my intention. My point was that the hyperlinks in your sarcastic text were often irrelevant and/or disreputable.
> 
> I also prefer to have conversations, not to trade links without context. If your point is that there are side effects to the vaccines that are being covered up, please articulate what those side effects are, and then please provide evidence that's reputable. We don't need to get off track.


My apologies once again. My nerve didn't get struck, but if it were, I would almost be wondering how some would ask for sources yet still say it's not enough, almost like it's never gonna be good enough even if you spell it out in the most articulate way possible, as if even if one would go through the effort even though some could easily read through articles they still won't accept what's been written down and recorded with the science they love to brag about so much. But that's clearly not the case here as there is no reason not to trust these ultimately safe and potentially non-lethal vaccines at all sponsered and pushed by big pharma and government. Just another loony conspiracy theory.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> People aren't cars.  You mentioned something about being "objective" but you are tossing around statistics of unrelated scenarios and then conflating them.


Learn what an analogy is. The severe risks associated with seatbelts and the severe risks associated with the COVID-19 vaccines are comparable. If you aren't going to use a "seatbelts have non-zero chance of killing me" argument against seatbelts, then you can't be consistent and use a "vaccines have a non-zero chance of killing me" argument.



tabzer said:


> Also you are passively admitting that you aren't interested in keeping yourself informed with vaccine related death or injury.


No, I'm not. As I've said already, very few people, if any, have died from the mRNA vaccines. If you want to argue anybody has died from the mRNA vaccines, let alone a significant number of people, you need to provide evidence. I've looked for it, and I haven't found it.



tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence


It isn't that a significant number of people who died right after getting vaccinated "can't be evaluated." It's that a causal link between the vaccine and a death cannot be established. There's a big difference. When we're vaccinating millions of people, there are going to be people who died immediately after getting vaccinated for reasons unrelated to the vaccine. When you look at the numbers, the death rates for everything that isn't COVID-19, across the board, are unchanged by vaccination.

If you are going to argue that a significant number of vaccine deaths have gone unnoticed, or that there's any significant risk of death associated with the vaccine, you need to demonstrate this. That's where we're at.



tabzer said:


> yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.


Listen up, because I sincerely think you're going to learn something here.

The COVID-19 death numbers are fairly accurate. They're a significant bump in the death rate compared to what we would expect before COVID-19 appeared, and nearly all of these deaths occurred while people were hospitalized and being treated for severe COVID-19 symptoms and testing positive for COVID-19. In other words, the change in the raw number of deaths comports with the numbers of COVID-19 deaths that are being reported.

The current methodology for hospitalization numbers is admittedly a little iffy, but it's mostly with regard to younger ages, and the raw hospitalization numbers are still largely accurate.



tabzer said:


> It's also a racket.


The vaccine isn't a racket. They're safe, they're effective, and they have saved an estimated 1.1 million American lives. I'm not sure how anyone could consider vaccines to be a racket by any objective and reasoned measure.



BitMasterPlus said:


> My apologies once again. My nerve didn't get struck, but if it were, I would almost be wondering how some would ask for sources yet still say it's not enough, almost like it's never gonna be good enough even if you spell it out in the most articulate way possible, as if even if one would go through the effort even though some could easily read through articles they still won't accept what's been written down and recorded with the science they love to brag about so much. But that's clearly not the case here as there is no reason not to trust these ultimately safe and potentially non-lethal vaccines at all sponsered and pushed by big pharma and government. Just another loony conspiracy theory.


I don't see any specific claims of specific side effects that are being hidden or ignored, and I definitely don't see any evidence. If you're indeed claiming that there's scientific evidence for these side effects, I'm all ears. Forgive me if I'm not holding my breath though.

In the absence of reputable evidence, a lot of what you've said is tantamount to "another loony conspiracy theory," yes.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 17, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Well it's a good thing to see you're a very reasonable person that doesn't pick and choose their sources based on what they "feel" like is a good source or not, so thanks for understanding!


This isn’t based on how I feel, it’s based on researching the topics posted and sources they came from or listed. The Epoch Times is a known misinformation website and has a long history of spreading propaganda.
https://www.businessinsider.com/epoch-times-pro-trump-facebook-ads-2019-8
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...ay-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/epoch-times-trump-administration-falun-gong
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...edia-epoch-times-democrats-chinese-communists
Oh yeah, and it's also tethered to a cult, the cult of Falun Gong.
Your links are no sources, they aren't linked to anything legit. They are far-right political and religious propaganda.
YouTube isn't a source and it's sad that you think it is.


tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


Where's your source?


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Jan 17, 2022)

I have to wonder the leap of logic the anti-vax have when presented with logical explanations and data.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The COVID-19 death numbers are fairly accurate. They're a significant bump in the death rate compared to what we would expect before COVID-19 appeared, and nearly all of these deaths occurred while people were hospitalized and being treated for severe COVID-19 symptoms and testing positive for COVID-19. In other words, the change in the raw number of deaths comports with the numbers of COVID-19 deaths that are being reported.
> 
> The current methodology for hospitalization numbers is admittedly a little iffy, but it's mostly with regard to younger ages, and the raw hospitalization numbers are still largely accurate.



This is you interpreting data in favor of vaccines.



Lacius said:


> It isn't that a significant number of people who died right after getting vaccinated "can't be evaluated." It's that a causal link between the vaccine and a death cannot be established. There's a big difference. When we're vaccinating millions of people, there are going to be people who died immediately after getting vaccinated for reasons unrelated to the vaccine. When you look at the numbers, the death rates for everything that isn't COVID-19, across the board, are unchanged by vaccination.



This is also you interpreting data in favor of vaccines.

In both situations you approach the facts from different angles, to make it fit.  Correlation is evidence of causation only when it supports your intended narrative:



Lacius said:


> They're safe, they're effective



A preferred (safer*) alternative to some, not all.  They are effective if you just ignore boosters, and the fact that they haven't fixed anything.

Did you invest in Pfizer or any other of the companies manufacturing MRNA-based injections?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> This is you interpreting data in favor of vaccines.
> This is also you interpreting data in favor of vaccines.


I'm acknowledging scientific facts.



tabzer said:


> In both situations you approach the facts from different angles, to make it fit.


I don't go into situations with a preconceived notion in mind. My conclusions are 100% based on the evidence. You don't seem to understand that science doesn't have an agenda. The anti-vax movement, however, does.

I'm not pro-vaccine; I'm pro-science. The science just happens to back up the safety and efficacy of the vaccines.



tabzer said:


> A preferred (safer*) alternative to some, not all.


Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is objectively and demonstrably safer than not getting vaccinated.



tabzer said:


> They are effective if you just ignore boosters, and the fact that they haven't fixed anything.


The vaccines have saved over 1.1 million American lives so far. If you are unvaccinated, you are significantly more likely get infected with COVID-19, and you are more likely to experience severe COVID-19 symptoms and death. The existence of boosters doesn't change anything.



tabzer said:


> Did you invest in Pfizer or any other of the companies manufacturing MRNA-based injections?


I'm not the one with an agenda. I accept the science wherever it goes, since I care if my beliefs are true.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I don't go into situations with a preconceived notion in mind.


Well, excuse me for not believing you.



Lacius said:


> You don't seem to understand that science doesn't have an agenda.


Science doesn't have an agenda.  Science is not telling me to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.

The companies that sponsor/fund scientific experiments and statistical reports to yield outcomes in support of their products do.  That's a reality.



Lacius said:


> I'm not the one with an agenda.



Everyone has an agenda.  I'm still wondering if you bought stock and are trying to rationalize your participation in the racket.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Science doesn't have an agenda.  Science is not telling me to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.


You are right, but science is telling you that the vaccines are safe and effective. The science is telling you that you are putting yourself and others at significantly higher risk by not getting vaccinated.



tabzer said:


> Everyone has an agenda.


The closest thing to an agenda I have is the pursuit of truth.



tabzer said:


> I'm still wondering if you bought stock and are trying to rationalize your participation in the racket.


Your question only serves as a distraction (nobody should be surprised that you're trying to change the topic), so I've ignored it. I see the vaccines as an issue of public health, not a "racket." For you to argue they're part of a racket, you need to provide evidence that they aren't as safe and effective as we know they are, and we're still waiting for you to do so.


----------



## sley (Jan 17, 2022)

Yeah had it 2 times, luckily im young and also vaccinated so symptoms were very mild.
The first time was before I got vaccinated and I had a high fever for one night, the next day I already felt much better.
The second time was when I recently got the Omikron variant but I guess that since my vaccination was 4 months ago the symptoms were almost nonexistent.

About the topic above me:
Based on my experience and countless science reports vaccines are much safer than getting the virus itself and instead of arguing and throwing assumptions I'd try to get a healthy discussion going about what the statistics actually mean.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

s1cc said:


> Based on my experience and countless science reports vaccines are much safer than getting the virus itself and instead of arguing and throwing assumptions I'd try to get a healthy discussion going about what the statistics actually mean.


Looking at the most recent data I could find (January 1, 2022), which is out of Switzerland, we can see the following:

Approximately 88.4% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were unvaccinated.
Approximately 9.7% of those who died from COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were fully vaccinated but hadn't received a booster.
Approximately 1.8% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were vaccinated and boosted.
These numbers mean someone who is unvaccinated is over 48 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is boosted. Someone who is fully vaccinated but not boosted is more than 5 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is boosted.

I think the numbers speak for themselves, but some people care more about being anti-vax than about what the science has to say.

I would have used numbers from the United States, since that's where I'm from, but I couldn't find much that was as recent as the data from Switzerland, and I wanted to be fair.


----------



## Ferris1000 (Jan 17, 2022)

I never had Covid and let me tell you a Secret how to avoid getting infected.

1. Avoid going partying
2. Always wear your Mask when you go outside and change it daily.
3. Avoid going outside/shopping for no reason
4. If you go shopping keep your Distance (A lot of People think that wearing a Mask is enough and doesn't keep the Distance)
5. Wash your hands.
6. Always think that everybody else is infected (triggers to be more careful)
7. Don't trust anybody who says that he is healthy.

If you still manage to get infected do one thing: >Stay at Home<

Being vaccinated  doesn't Protect you from getting and spreading Covid, don't let tell anybody tell you otherwise.
A lot of People think that if they are Vaccinated they are fine and don't have to care about anything.
If someone ask me, the vaccinated People are more Dangerous than People that are not, because they thing that they are Protected.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

Ferris1000 said:


> I never had Covid and let me tell you a Secret how to avoid getting infected.
> 
> 1. Avoid going partying
> 2. Always wear your Mask when you go outside and change it daily.
> ...


These are all good pieces of advice, but getting vaccinated should be near the top of the list, if not at the very top.


----------



## Ferris1000 (Jan 17, 2022)

I'm not telling anybody to get or get not Vaccinated but the Vaccine doesn't Protect you, it only lowers the chance to Die


----------



## Lacius (Jan 17, 2022)

Ferris1000 said:


> I'm not telling anybody to get or get not Vaccinated but the Vaccine doesn't Protect you, it only lowers the chance to Die


The vaccine decreases one's chances of getting infected. If you're less likely to get infected, then you're less likely to spread the disease. If you suffer a breakthrough infection, however, you can still spread the disease about as much as someone who was unvaccinated.

Probably most importantly, getting vaccinated is very likely to reduce the severity of your illness if you get infected. It will significantly reduce the odds of ending up in the hospital and/or dying.

Getting vaccinated should be at the top of your list. You shouldn't take a stance of "I'm not going to mention the vaccine one way or the other" just because some people have made the issue political or controversial.



Ferris1000 said:


> Being vaccinated  doesn't Protect you from getting and spreading Covid, don't let tell anybody tell you otherwise.
> A lot of People think that if they are Vaccinated they are fine and don't have to care about anything.
> If someone ask me, the vaccinated People are more Dangerous than People that are not, because they thing that they are Protected.


The vaccine is not 100% effective, but it does reduce one's odds of getting infected and spreading the disease. As you've already mentioned, it also reduces one's odds of getting seriously ill from the disease.

The people who are vaccinated are definitely not "more dangerous" than the unvaccinated.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 17, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Looking at the most recent data I could find (January 1, 2022), which is out of Switzerland, we can see the following:
> 
> Approximately 88.4% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were unvaccinated.
> Approximately 9.7% of those who died from COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were fully vaccinated but hadn't received a booster.
> ...


It is exactly at this point, with these numbers, that I would say the booster should be a decision/option like the seasonal flu vaccine; not something virtually imposed. I myself would still get the booster, but I don't think taking measures that segregate people for not getting the booster is justified anymore, I consider the social divide and unrest that comes from such measures worse than the alternative (of not letting some people to have somewhat increased risk and having instead increased social unrest).

PS: but of course these numbers should make you get complete vaccination at least once.


----------



## Ferris1000 (Jan 17, 2022)

@Lacius
I think you don't understand what I meant.

Most People are just Stupid, that's why a lot of People think that if they are vaccinated they don't have to wear a Mask or keep the Distance anymore and go back to their old life.

Every time I go shopping for Food People do the Covid Sandwich, They don't keep their Distance and cough.
Sometime I have the feeling that I'm invisible.

My Point is, being Vaccinated is not an excuse to feel save and get others in danger

BTW: checking the Numbers of infected and Death Rate: The Death Rate goes Down but the Infection Rate is the Same if not Higher (Depending on the Country)


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 17, 2022)

Ferris1000 said:


> BTW: checking the Numbers of infected and Death Rate: The Death Rate goes Down but the Infection Rate is the Same if not Higher (Depending on the Country)


Yep, that's the way it's been lately. Lot of infections, low hospitalization number, low death numbers, most hospitalization and fatalities coming from unvaccinated.

And yes, people are not as careful as before... I am not sure it is due to them getting vaccinated though, I think they are just fed up, this has a psychological toll.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2022)

Ferris1000 said:


> @Lacius
> I think you don't understand what I meant.
> 
> Most People are just Stupid, that's why a lot of People think that if they are vaccinated they don't have to wear a Mask or keep the Distance anymore and go back to their old life.
> ...


You and I are in agreement that a lot of people aren't being careful anymore when they should still continue to wear masks, etc., and being vaccinated isn't an excuse to not use common sense, but the unvaccinated crowd seems to be more egregious about it than the vaccinated crowd. You remember the maskholes from before the vaccines became available? Those are largely the people who are unvaccinated and overwhelming hospitals now.



sarkwalvein said:


> It is exactly at this point, with these numbers, that I would say the booster should be a decision/option like the seasonal flu vaccine; not something virtually imposed. I myself would still get the booster, but I don't think taking measures that segregate people for not getting the booster is justified anymore, I consider the social divide and unrest that comes from such measures worse than the alternative (of not letting some people to have somewhat increased risk and having instead increased social unrest).
> 
> PS: but of course these numbers should make you get complete vaccination at least once.


Regardless of how people feel about vaccine requirements (I'm generally for them, depending on the logistics), the vaccine should be something that everyone chooses to do. Being unvaccinated now in 2022 can't be described as anything other than selfish, not to mention counterproductive.


----------



## Ferris1000 (Jan 18, 2022)

the biggest Problem is that the Government, they are lying to People and now they are trying to force People to get vaccinated.

The Government  should have act early on but they did not, just remember People like Trump who said: "Covid is a Hoax it's a Scam" and then he wanted People to take a Drug  which actually was a Scam.

I Remember when Covid just started to Spread, I called the Health Origination in the Country I live and ask them if they provide everybody with Free N95 Masks but they told me that it's enough to just wear a cloth on my Face.
I asked them if they are Stupid or what, but they said that the Doctors Recommend so which is completely BS and I knew it because I read a lot about Covid early on to protect myself.

Now they are making Stupid Rules that come and go like tested, vaccinated or cured to go to certain shops or events and if a big sale comes they dismiss the Rules because "Money is more important" which makes me very angry.
But they also allowed Festivals and Concerts to Continue again.

I have the bad feeling that Covid will never Stop, unless everybody realize that we have to act, now.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2022)

Ferris1000 said:


> the biggest Problem is that the Government, they are lying to People and now they are trying to force People to get vaccinated.
> 
> The Government  should have act early on but they did not, just remember People like Trump who said: "Covid is a Hoax it's a Scam" and then he wanted People to take a Drug  which actually was a Scam.
> 
> ...


The government should require vaccination for certain privileges, like being able to use public transportation. There's a precedent for this, and these kinds of vaccine mandates have been shown to reduce the spread of disease.

Before omicron, cloth masks were shown to offer a reasonable degree of protection (even 50% efficacy was significant), and more importantly, mask mandates were shown to reduce the spread of disease.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 18, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The government should require vaccination for certain privileges, like being able to use public transportation. There's a precedent for this, and these kinds of vaccine mandates have been shown to reduce the spread of disease.
> 
> Before omicron, cloth masks were shown to offer a reasonable degree of protection (even 50% efficacy was significant), and more importantly, mask mandates were shown to reduce the spread of disease.


The recommendation should always have been FFP2/N95, or at least the reasons, advantages and disadvantages should have been clearly communicated.

When we even have a Maskgate here, you perhaps can understand people get annoyed with the government and their lack of transparency.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 18, 2022)

tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


Hi, please provide a source to this claim.


----------



## stanna (Jan 18, 2022)




----------



## stanna (Jan 18, 2022)

https://www.citizensjournal.us/gove...5ptBL.KFy2W8ctZjencg-1642435945-0-gaNycGzNCFE


----------



## stanna (Jan 18, 2022)

Looks like SOME people have started to realise what's going on.

https://web.archive.org/web/2022011...-in-england-to-be-thrown-away-as-demand-falls


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 18, 2022)

stanna said:


>



That’s literally a chart of Google search results, which of course spiked when the claims of myocarditis were reported. Google search results are not a reliable source. Kirsch is also not an expert and has a history of spreading misinformation 
https://www.technologyreview.com/20...teve-kirsch-covid-vaccine-misinformation/amp/

It’s worth noting that there have some been a few cases of mostly teenage boys having temporary side effects from the vaccines. They have been extremely rare and had cleared up after a few hours (normally only a few days at max.) There has not been a death reported as a result from these side-effects.
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/w...78vGKUV-HgyoBAiqsMDmaV1PnLwCZWZRoC6ToQAvD_BwE



stanna said:


> https://www.citizensjournal.us/gove...5ptBL.KFy2W8ctZjencg-1642435945-0-gaNycGzNCFE


This site is literally misquoting it’s sources


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 18, 2022)

stanna said:


>



I don't think anybody claims myocarditis was more prevalent before vaccination started. I wonder who is that Twitter person talking about when he says "they", perhaps his imaginary friends?


----------



## smf (Jan 18, 2022)

stanna said:


> Looks like SOME people have started to realise what's going on are idiots who believe conspiracies they have no evidence for.


There, fixed it for you.



sarkwalvein said:


> I don't think anybody claims myocarditis was more prevalent before vaccination started. I wonder who is that Twitter person talking about when he says "they", perhaps his imaginary friends?


Covid 19 can also cause Myocarditis, I don't know but maybe it was more prevalent before vaccination started.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 18, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I don't see any specific claims of specific side effects that are being hidden or ignored, and I definitely don't see any evidence. If you're indeed claiming that there's scientific evidence for these side effects, I'm all ears. Forgive me if I'm not holding my breath though.
> 
> In the absence of reputable evidence, a lot of what you've said is tantamount to "another loony conspiracy theory," yes.


Well of course not, considering your general attitude, it's not because you choose to ignore what's actually going on around you and refuse to look into the subject more and just take the droll the government gives out, nope, it's because you believe in the science like a good sheep model citizen that you are. You are the true an hero and I salute you, good sir!



The Catboy said:


> This isn’t based on how I feel, it’s based on researching the topics posted and sources they came from or listed. The Epoch Times is a known misinformation website and has a long history of spreading propaganda.
> https://www.businessinsider.com/epoch-times-pro-trump-facebook-ads-2019-8
> https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...ay-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/epoch-times-trump-administration-falun-gong
> ...


Oh damn, those are some bad ass sources you have there. I gotta say, I know when I've been beaten. Those are clearly not bullshit biased articles that aren't even worth their weight in shit, nope, you've cracked it wide open my man. I can see why you're so picky about sources if these are your golden standard, the types of sources that clearly don't lie and manipulate. I'm the sad one, you're the golden standard I could never, ever hope to achieve. Please, no one respond to this man without a "legitimate" source first.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 18, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Well of course not, considering your general attitude, it's not because you choose to ignore what's actually going on around you and refuse to look into the subject more and just take the droll the government gives out, nope, it's because you believe in the science like a good sheep model citizen that you are. You are the true an hero and I salute you, good sir!
> 
> 
> Oh damn, those are some bad ass sources you have there. I gotta say, I know when I've been beaten. Those are clearly not bullshit biased articles that aren't even worth their weight in shit, nope, you've cracked it wide open my man. I can see why you're so picky about sources if these are your golden standard, the types of sources that clearly don't lie and manipulate. I'm the sad one, you're the golden standard I could never, ever hope to achieve. Please, no one respond to this man without a "legitimate" source first.


I’ve stopped trying to convince people like you. I am only debunking your post in a hopes those on the fence don’t fall over to your side and stay in the side of logic and science. You can stick to your conspiracy websites funded by Far-Right cults but I am not going to let them go unchallenged.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Well of course not, considering your general attitude, it's not because you choose to ignore what's actually going on around you and refuse to look into the subject more and just take the droll the government gives out, nope, it's because you believe in the science like a good sheep model citizen that you are. You are the true an hero and I salute you, good sir!


If your viewpoint requires you to start arguing against science broadly, it's probably a poor viewpoint.


----------



## AskingForTrouble (Jan 18, 2022)

If I’ve gotten it, I didn’t know it.


----------



## orangy57 (Jan 18, 2022)

I'm vaxxed but i got corona back in October and was stuck in bed with a headache, sore throat, and fever for 3 days. I didn't die or anything since I'm young, but I haven't been bed-ridden sick since like 2016 so it was shocking to feel like a frail old person for the first time in forever

kinda messed up question but I wonder how many users on the temp have died from it so far


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 18, 2022)

orangy57 said:


> I'm vaxxed but i got corona back in October and was stuck in bed with a headache, sore throat, and fever for 3 days. I didn't die or anything since I'm young, but I haven't been bed-ridden sick since like 2016 so it was shocking to feel like a frail old person for the first time in forever
> 
> kinda messed up question but I wonder how many users on the temp have died from it so far


The long term side effects of Covid have not been fun. I am still been dealing a lot of fatigue and soreness since getting Covid at the end of 2021. I did have a night when my wife had to quickly cool me down due to how high my fever had gotten. It was not a pleasant experience, I am not confident that I would have survived if I hadn’t been vaccinated and my wife hadn’t noticed I was burning ups 
I often wonder about some of the members who were super active and just suddenly vanished. I hope they are ok and just dipped off the temp but sometimes I worry about them.


----------



## stanna (Jan 18, 2022)

https://www.banned.video/watch?id=61e708ce8073487f001d5e60


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 18, 2022)

stanna said:


> https://www.banned.video/watch?id=61e708ce8073487f001d5e60


Infowars  seriously, do you just believe anything posted because it’s labeled “THE TRUTH!” Do you actually research any of this beyond shady conspiracy sites?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 18, 2022)

Those of us in the United States can now order free at-home COVID-19 tests directly from the post office website:

https://www.covidtests.gov/


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## AskingForTrouble (Jan 18, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Those of us in the United States can now order free at-home COVID-19 tests directly from the post office website:
> 
> https://www.covidtests.gov/


I personally wouldn’t trust those. I’m not sure what the accuracy rate it, but the false positives can give people a false sense of security and put a lot more people in danger of contracting the virus. That’s not to say testing should be done, but I’d be very skeptical of any result from an at-home test.


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## Lacius (Jan 18, 2022)

AskingForTrouble said:


> I personally wouldn’t trust those. I’m not sure what the accuracy rate it, but the false positives can give people a false sense of security and put a lot more people in danger of contracting the virus. That’s not to say testing should be done, but I’d be very skeptical of any result from an at-home test.


Your concerns are legitimate, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that one "shouldn't trust" them.

False negatives are possible, but the at-home tests are reasonably accurate. Something like 85% of positive cases will be caught by most at-home tests, and this number shoots up significantly if the person being tested is experiencing symptoms. Using multiple tests within a day or two of each other also yields far more accurate results.


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## sarkwalvein (Jan 18, 2022)

AskingForTrouble said:


> I personally wouldn’t trust those. I’m not sure what the accuracy rate it, but the false positives can give people a false sense of security and put a lot more people in danger of contracting the virus. That’s not to say testing should be done, but I’d be very skeptical of any result from an at-home test.


To be honest, I don't trust at-home antigen tests any less than those performed on a testing site. Antigen tests are not so sensitive, specially in early days, specially against omicron. But it is better than nothing, anyway if you feel sick behave like you're sick.


----------



## console (Jan 18, 2022)

Yes. I and my parents get Covid but solved in 1-3 weeks in August 2021. My dad solve about 2 weeks and 3-5 days. August 2021 is first time hit me and my parents. I and my parents never get covid vaccine because my mom warned me about side effect from bad vaccine can make people feel very bad, very hurt or go to dead / death anytime.

I recovered myself 9-11 days faster from covid. My mom is almost similar. That's where my dad get covid from his work. First when I feel headache like electric shock inside my head for 3-4 days. Ouch ouch ouch it's really hurt so bad just like bad storm thunderstorm inside my head! I think because I had a lot of electrolytes inside my health are processed to stop and kill covid in natural immune way. Then running water come out of my nose for about 2-3 days Then I just had fever, chilly and lost taste/smell in half. Took about 3 days to return back to normal for have taste and smell back again just like before.

But very lucky for me don't have trouble breath because covid don't get in my lungs. Just mouth only. I drink a lot of alkaline water (8.8 pH to 10 pH) with electrolytes to stop all covid breed inside body. It's get a lot better faster health improve. Never drink soda because of bad acid! I refuse and never trust cheap water bottles or gallons without electrolytes and weak pH level like 7 or less are not approved.

I and my parents took vitimans A, C and other help to stop covid. My mom help my dad with horse paste because he had trouble breath from his lungs. Horse paste saved my dad's life and everything go very good!

Don't listen on news (internet, radio, TV) are all lied and fool us and people. Federal and governments want us to get killed by take covid vaccines to destroy our natural immune in our body. My mom told me. Just ignore news then move on and keep going strong. Always ignore covid vaccines to keep us safe from any threats to prevent wreck our health systems.

My mom told me that few women workers who are nurses in hospital to use horse paste to mix with any yogurts to feed very sick people with covid and get recover very faster in any one day, two days, 3 days and go on to save all people life to be successful then go to home with family!

It's covid type is Delta what I and my parents got from my dad work. Awful!

I and my parents are normal and in perfect good health now. Never get covid vaccine period.


----------



## Glyptofane (Jan 19, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Those of us in the United States can now order free at-home COVID-19 tests directly from the post office website:
> 
> https://www.covidtests.gov/


I was going to order my 4 and throw them directly in the garbage upon receipt, but I also don't want to do anything that could be seen as propagating yet another boomer-tier scam either.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> I was going to order my 4 and throw them directly in the garbage upon receipt, but I also don't want to do anything that could be seen as propagating yet another boomer-tier scam either.


It isn't a scam. They're free.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 19, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It isn't a scam. They're free.


I, too, enjoy free lunch.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I, too, enjoy free lunch.


Not sure what you imply.
The tests have been free in many countries to increase testing and reduce risks of furthering contagion, this is not news, perhaps it is news in America but not in the rest of the world.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I, too, enjoy free lunch.


I'm paying the same in taxes regardless of whether or not I sign up to receive free testing kits, lol.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 19, 2022)

tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


I am starting to believe that there is no source to this claim and you just made it up, like all of the other claims you’ve made in the past.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 20, 2022)

Lacius said:


> If your viewpoint requires you to start arguing against science broadly, it's probably a poor viewpoint.


You're right. It's never good to question science even if it might help people who claim they are the science wrong. Just follow the narrative blindly and don't question it! That's how we move forward in life!



The Catboy said:


> I’ve stopped trying to convince people like you. I am only debunking your post in a hopes those on the fence don’t fall over to your side and stay in the side of logic and science. You can stick to your conspiracy websites funded by Far-Right cults but I am not going to let them go unchallenged.


I'm so sorry I'm such a lost cause to you. I should be ashamed and just the mainstream media more, because they never lie and are filled to the brim with integrity, unlike those other small independent racist conservative news networks. Mainstream media also is never themselves influenced or paid off by any sponsors to influence how they portray certain topics when they talk about it on the media. And even if someone exposes these giants with damning evidence against them, it doesn't count unless they themselves present the evidence that would damage themselves, because if you have dirt on yourself, the first thing you do is expose yourself out of integrity to the public and not lie or cover it up, that never happens, which is why we don't need other outlets to do it and if they do I guess they're just "lying".


----------



## Lacius (Jan 20, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You're right. It's never good to question science even if it might help people who claim they are the science wrong. Just follow the narrative blindly and don't question it! That's how we move forward in life!


It's fine to question our scientific understanding if you're going to refute that understanding with better science.

Blindly rejecting science, which is what you and others like you are doing, is just stupid.


----------



## r5xscn (Jan 20, 2022)

Hmm, just giving a piece of my opinion on science here.
1. In science, scientists/researchers make some hypotheses on something.
2. Then they test the hypotheses with some mathematical proofs, experiments, or surveys.
3. Then they post the result as academic papers in journals or conferences as a contribution to the research topic/field.

The results may match or may not match the hypotheses. However, the result "should" be repeatable, well because science shows something being true through proof that can be repeated consistently under the test condition.
Now, the keyword here is "should" and "consistently under the test condition/configuration".

The keyword should is not always followed by all scientists/researchers, to prevent this, journals and conferences use "peer reviews from experts (which is someone in the scientific community) in the field."

The issue is that average people not in the scientific community do not really have a picture of what science is even though they are introduced in high schools. Mainstream media often says that the science is wrong just because the proof in the scientific papers do not match their result. This mismatch is usually a product of different test conditions/configurations, which is expected by the scientific community but not the average people/media.

To make this worse, the media often do not want to hire scientists to help them make their news accurate. As a result, the scientific community gets the blame from the average people.

Claim: I am not a scientist in the medical field and I have no idea in detail how the mRNA vaccine works or why the virus is deadly. 

However, if someone in the field (scientists/researchers) makes some claim with scientific proof, then I will believe them over the news reporters with no educational background in medical fields. 

I am not saying you should not trust Facebook Reddit or other social media (even GBATemp). In science, the proof, the test conditions, or the survey conditions are crucial. Do your own research. We live in an information society. Information is on the internet, you can educate yourself. The average joe nowadays can have more knowledge than some Ph.D. holders thanks to the internet.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 20, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I am starting to believe that there is no source to this claim and you just made it up, like all of the other claims you’ve made in the past.


I take it you are unfamiliar with the incentivized practice of hospitals labelling everything Covid.  Is it really shocking to you or are you trying to be relevant via outrage?

You ever hear about the guy who died _*while*_ getting hit by a train?



sarkwalvein said:


> Not sure what you imply.


There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 21, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It's fine to question our scientific understanding if you're going to refute that understanding with better science.
> 
> Blindly rejecting science, which is what you and others like you are doing, is just stupid.


Of course we are! By simply questioning something that doesn't seem right, and or may be concerning to our bodies, we just reject the science instead of following it like the upstanding citizen you are! When will the people of my ilk ever learn?


----------



## SG854 (Jan 21, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You're right. It's never good to question science even if it might help people who claim they are the science wrong. Just follow the narrative blindly and don't question it! That's how we move forward in life!
> 
> 
> I'm so sorry I'm such a lost cause to you. I should be ashamed and just the mainstream media more, because they never lie and are filled to the brim with integrity, unlike those other small independent racist conservative news networks.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I take it you are unfamiliar with the incentivized practice of hospitals labelling everything Covid.  Is it really shocking to you or are you trying to be relevant via outrage?
> 
> You ever hear about the guy who died _*while*_ getting hit by a train?
> 
> ...


Have you ever heard of posting a source? You made a claim, a pretty bold one too and that should have a source to it.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Of course we are! By simply questioning something that doesn't seem right, and or may be concerning to our bodies, we just reject the science instead of following it like the upstanding citizen you are! When will the people of my ilk ever learn?


Questioning is one thing, it's good to be skeptical. But it becomes concerning when you become so skeptical of everything that you are willing to allow yourself to believe in unprovable conspiracies. You've only posted links to either debunked articles, articles completely misquoting their sources, or complete nonsense from Youtube. Why the hesitation towards academic studies, medical research, or anything that can be taken seriously? Why do you feel the need to stick to sources that reassure your beliefs without questioning those sources? Why don't you question why your links misquote studies or why your links often only link back to either the same site or other questionable links?


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 21, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Questioning is one thing, it's good to be skeptical. But it becomes concerning when you become so skeptical of everything that you are willing to allow yourself to believe in unprovable conspiracies. You've only posted links to either debunked articles, articles completely misquoting their sources, or complete nonsense from Youtube. Why the hesitation towards academic studies, medical research, or anything that can be taken seriously? Why do you feel the need to stick to sources that reassure your beliefs without questioning those sources? Why don't you question why your links misquote studies or why your links often only link back to either the same site or other questionable links?


You're so right, I need to stop believing in such conspiracies. Might I ask which ones are wrong?


----------



## kisamesama (Jan 21, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> Yes,back in 2013...
> 
> - over 40° Fever for 2 - 3 Days
> - very difficulty breathing combined with
> ...


back then it was not a pandemic... I don't know why people can't understand the difference... covid is not a controlled disease yet as opposed to flu.. once it becomes under control (health centers are not oversaturated and we have all monitoring and vaccination programme in place like flu control), then we can treat it like a normal seasonal disease....


----------



## tabzer (Jan 21, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Have you ever heard of posting a source? You made a claim, a pretty bold one too and that should have a source to it.



It's not that bold.  Hyperbolized, yes, but to understand the sentiment, you need to be able to exist outside of the experiment itself.  You are a test subject, so you no longer have your own agency.   Basically, you are apart of "the blob" and not capable of thinking for yourself.  The rest of your life depends on it working.  There is literally nothing that I can do to make it work better for you--unless you are soliciting placebo.  I don't think placebo works great with denial, btw.  Sorry.

If I ever doubt my capacity to interpret what's going on with "the science", aka pharmaceutical purchased propaganda, all I need to do is read over the pages of dirty laundry you air about how well it is improving your life.  

I have no complaints.


----------



## Kurt91 (Jan 21, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Have you ever heard of posting a source? You made a claim, a pretty bold one too and that should have a source to it.
> 
> Questioning is one thing, it's good to be skeptical. But it becomes concerning when you become so skeptical of everything that you are willing to allow yourself to believe in unprovable conspiracies. You've only posted links to either debunked articles, articles completely misquoting their sources, or complete nonsense from Youtube. Why the hesitation towards academic studies, medical research, or anything that can be taken seriously? Why do you feel the need to stick to sources that reassure your beliefs without questioning those sources? Why don't you question why your links misquote studies or why your links often only link back to either the same site or other questionable links?


Not a cited source, but personal anecdote. This actually happened to a family friend. He was already in really bad shape, on oxygen and everything. He died, and the hospital marked the cause of death as Covid. His wife complained that he had tested negative and it wasn't Covid but pre-existing conditions, and the hospital responded with something along the lines of "If we mark it as Covid, we get money and your insurance is more likely to pay out more" She didn't want it recorded as Covid if it wasn't, and they did it anyways.

Then, they demanded she go into quarantine because "her husband died of Covid, it says so on his medical record that they just filled out. So, she must have been exposed and needs to quarantine"

Again, I know it's not a cited source and is only a personal anecdote. Feel free to believe me or not. I do have to ask, though, if this were to happen more than just individual cases, how exactly would somebody find a cited source exposing it? I mean, if false information is being given to the media and news sources, the news sources are going to be reporting the false information. For this particular thing, isn't asking for a cited source sort of a Catch-22?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 21, 2022)

Kurt91 said:


> Not a cited source, but personal anecdote. This actually happened to a family friend. He was already in really bad shape, on oxygen and everything. He died, and the hospital marked the cause of death as Covid. His wife complained that he had tested negative and it wasn't Covid but pre-existing conditions, and the hospital responded with something along the lines of "If we mark it as Covid, we get money and your insurance is more likely to pay out more" She didn't want it recorded as Covid if it wasn't, and they did it anyways.
> 
> Then, they demanded she go into quarantine because "her husband died of Covid, it says so on his medical record that they just filled out. So, she must have been exposed and needs to quarantine"
> 
> Again, I know it's not a cited source and is only a personal anecdote. Feel free to believe me or not. I do have to ask, though, if this were to happen more than just individual cases, how exactly would somebody find a cited source exposing it? I mean, if false information is being given to the media and news sources, the news sources are going to be reporting the false information. For this particular thing, isn't asking for a cited source sort of a Catch-22?



Let me know when CNN calls for an interview.


----------



## Alexander1970 (Jan 21, 2022)

kisamesama said:


> back then it was not a pandemic... I don't know why people can't understand the difference... covid is not a controlled disease yet as opposed to flu.. once it becomes under control (health centers are not oversaturated and we have all monitoring and vaccination programme in place like flu control), then we can treat it like a normal seasonal disease....


Yes,Mister Doktor.
I am very happy we have People like you who knows best for all Human Beings.
Thank you for your only Opinion.Now I can sleep better and Life is good again.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not that bold.  Hyperbolized, yes, but to understand the sentiment, you need to be able to exist outside of the experiment itself.  You are a test subject, so you no longer have your own agency.   Basically, you are apart of "the blob" and not capable of thinking for yourself.  The rest of your life depends on it working.  There is literally nothing that I can do to make it work better for you--unless you are soliciting placebo.  I don't think placebo works great with denial, btw.  Sorry.
> 
> If I ever doubt my capacity to interpret what's going on with "the science", aka pharmaceutical purchased propaganda, all I need to do is read over the pages of dirty laundry you air about how well it is improving your life.
> 
> I have no complaints.


Here’s your claims, where’s the damn sauce? 


tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


You made claims with statistics involved, thus there should be something to back those statistics. 


BitMasterPlus said:


> You're so right, I need to stop believing in such conspiracies. Might I ask which ones are wrong?


I’ve already commented on these posts and they are only within the past 3 to 4 pages (if that.) You even replied to them with the same sarcastic comment.


Kurt91 said:


> Not a cited source, but personal anecdote. This actually happened to a family friend. He was already in really bad shape, on oxygen and everything. He died, and the hospital marked the cause of death as Covid. His wife complained that he had tested negative and it wasn't Covid but pre-existing conditions, and the hospital responded with something along the lines of "If we mark it as Covid, we get money and your insurance is more likely to pay out more" She didn't want it recorded as Covid if it wasn't, and they did it anyways.
> 
> Then, they demanded she go into quarantine because "her husband died of Covid, it says so on his medical record that they just filled out. So, she must have been exposed and needs to quarantine"
> 
> Again, I know it's not a cited source and is only a personal anecdote. Feel free to believe me or not. I do have to ask, though, if this were to happen more than just individual cases, how exactly would somebody find a cited source exposing it? I mean, if false information is being given to the media and news sources, the news sources are going to be reporting the false information. For this particular thing, isn't asking for a cited source sort of a Catch-22?


This has nothing to do with the claims I am asking for a source on. It only turned to this when pressured and I won’t be entertaining anecdotes because those aren’t worth arguing. But a claim like the one I’ve been quoting, that has hard claims in it and should be requested the source to where he got those numbers.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 21, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I’ve already commented on these posts and they are only within the past 3 to 4 pages (if that.) You even replied to them with the same sarcastic comment.


So no specifics, huh? Only going back to the biased and blatant lies completely factual and founded claims you posted, huh? You sir, have beaten me at my own game, I take my hat off to you.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 21, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> So no specifics, huh? Only going back to the biased and blatant lies completely factual and founded claims you posted, huh? You sir, have beaten me at my own game, I take my hat off to you.





BitMasterPlus said:


> Of course nothing's been suppressed, duh. Neither has any side effects. I'm totally not being sarcastic my good man.


This is not a verified source and the claims are suspect at best. Checking through the comments shows more questions about the article and the legitimacy of the editorial.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Once again, you are totally and completely right. I mean, the information about covid deaths before because of comorbidities was not blocked by the medical professionals and the media for the past 2 years, as they have always been transparent from day one and have not called out people who have said so "conspiracy theorists" in order to silence them. That has never happened. As for the unvaccinated, I don't know why they still won't get the jab, I mean, what's not to trust from these people? Especially from someone like Dr.Fauci, a man who I would trust me life to.
> 
> 
> Nope, because there is absolutely no side-effects on any of the vaccines at all. So shut up and shoot up!


You deliberately misinterpreted my request here and then posted far-right websites that misquote or makeup stories. They don't properly cite their sources and you would realize that if you actually researched the topic instead of just believing shit that confirms your beliefs.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Hey man I totally and completely agree with you 100%. It's clear that more people die from being unvaccinated rather than getting vaccinated, and even if the vaccine isn't fully effective, it does appear to be effective enough to stop any kind of outbreaks. All these racist conspiracy theories need to stop once and for all!


You used the same conspiracy site and outdated articles that were written before the understanding of Delta and Omicron.


BitMasterPlus said:


> I suppose that article is a bit dated, but there are more articles that vaccines do completely work, so the unvaccinated should get it and stop clogging up the hospitals. Selfish bastards.


Again with the same conspiracy site coupled with a clear understanding that you didn't read any of the sources.
Most of your posts are the same conspiracy site that is provably an organization that spreads misinformation, which of course you dismissed. Can you actually prove that it's a trustworthy site? You didn't even address the concerns with the ties to a far-right political and religious cult. Why is it that you misquote sources and post nonsense, then get snippy when people call you out on it?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 21, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> This has nothing to do with the claims I am asking for a source on.


If you aren't disputing that the data coming from hospitals regarding covid-related/caused death is unreliable, what's your problem?  You saw numbers and they triggered you?  What part of the comment offended you?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you aren't disputing that the data coming from hospitals regarding covid-related/caused death is unreliable, what's your problem?  You saw numbers and they triggered you?  What part of the comment offended you?


Was your goal to ignore everything @The Catboy said to you directly? Are your positions literally that indefensible?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 21, 2022)

One does not imply the other lucious.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If you aren't disputing that the data coming from hospitals regarding covid-related/caused death is unreliable, what's your problem?  You saw numbers and they triggered you?  What part of the comment offended you?


So there is data, where is it?


----------



## Deleted member 397813 (Jan 21, 2022)

omnicron hit me with about as much consent as a weinstein last week

then again i live in vancouver so im not surprised


----------



## tabzer (Jan 21, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> So there is data, where is it?


Lol.  Now we are disputing that there is ANY data coming from hospitals.  You are like, super special.  Did your mom ever tell you?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  Now we are disputing that there is ANY data coming from hospitals.  You are like, super special.  Did your mom ever tell you?


Not sure if you know about ad-hominem fallacy.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lol.  Now we are disputing that there is ANY data coming from hospitals.  You are like, super special.  Did your mom ever tell you?


The fuck you on about? I am literally asking you to show me the data you are talking about. How am I disputing anything when asking for it? You've not posted a single link containing any of the data, why are you pretending you did and that I am disputing it?


----------



## tabzer (Jan 21, 2022)

sarkwalvein said:


> Not sure if you know about ad-hominem fallacy.



What's the argument?  Just replace %110 with "more than there are" and 99% with "almost all" and problem solved.  No more numbers.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 21, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What's the argument?  Just replace %110 with "more than there are" and 99% with "almost all" and problem solved.  No more numbers.


So just not going to post any links? You made a claim, changed the subject, accused me arguing “the data,” and then threw in an ad hominem. At what point are you actually going to post the data you claim there to be?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 21, 2022)

@tabzer You made some very specific claims suggesting the vaccines are not safe or effective. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?


----------



## Chrisssj2 (Jan 22, 2022)

You cant have what is not proven to exist. Hypothethical computer virus.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> @tabzer You made some very specific claims suggesting the vaccines are not safe or effective. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?


Yes.  The CDC has revised its information upon finding more side effects occuring in the wild.  This is proof for both the points that the the scientific evaluation of the vaccine was falsely toted as being safe without understanding (even by you, before and after edits), and proof that it is irrational to conclude it is safe when new information is continually being collected.

As for it being effective, all I need to do is look how "back to normal" we are not.

If you question the overreporting of Covid related deaths, then you need not to look further than the fact that it is financially incentivized to do so.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Yes.  The CDC has revised its information upon finding more side effects occuring in the wild.  This is proof for both the points that the the scientific evaluation of the vaccine was falsely toted as being safe without understanding (even by you, before and after edits), and proof that it is irrational to conclude it is safe when new information is continually being collected.


First, our scientific understanding is only as good as the evidence available to us at the time. Second, the scientific evidence demonstrated the vaccines were safe, and it continues to demonstrate that the vaccines are safe. There is a risk of side effects, particularly since the vaccines are designed to trigger an immune response in the body, but there has been no scientific evidence that there's any significant risk of life-threatening side effects. In fact, I am unaware of any deaths associated with the mRNA vaccines.

I've used this analogy before, but I will say it again. Even if there were an extremely rare chance of death with the vaccines, it would be analogous to the life-threatening risk associated with seatbelts. Just because there's a non-zero chance that use of a seatbelt will result in your death in an accident when you otherwise would have survived if not wearing it doesn't mean that seatbelts aren't safe and effective. It would be irrational not to wear one.



tabzer said:


> As for it being effective, all I need to do is look how "back to normal" we are not.


The scientific data is clear that millions have been saved worldwide by the vaccines. Roughly 80-90% of those dying from COVID-19 today are unvaccinated. We aren't relatively back to normal because new variants popped up on populations that were unvaccinated, as the science suggested would happen.



tabzer said:


> If you question the overreporting of Covid related deaths, then you need not to look further than the fact that it is financially incentivized to do so.


There's no evidence that COVID-19 deaths have been significantly over reported. Just because some people are being counted as COVID hospitalizations despite coming to the hospital for other reasons, COVID deaths are more homogenous and easier to count.

None of what you said, from vaccine safety/efficacy to conspiracy theories about the COVID death count, is evidence for your claims. Please try again when you're feeling up to it.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

It's not a conspiracy theory to suggest that incentivized reporting will yield a return biased in its favor.  It's a given.  If there is a capital demand for a particular result, and the result is free to give, then you can be sure that the supply is going to be "always more".  It is a conflict of interest to use numbers garnered from such methods as "scientific data".

The rest of your spin isn't really something I'm interested in entertaining because the facts of what I said still stand despite however you rationalize ignoring it.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not a conspiracy theory to suggest that incentivized reporting will yield a return biased in its favor.  It's a given.


Please show evidence that the reported death numbers are significantly different from the actual numbers.

What you're claiming is, indeed, conspiracy theory nonsense.



tabzer said:


> The rest of your spin isn't really something I'm interested in entertaining because the facts of what I said still stand despite however you rationalize ignoring it.


You haven't stated any facts. You've made unsubstantiated claims.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Please show evidence that the reported death numbers are significantly different from the actual numbers.
> 
> What you're claiming is, indeed, conspiracy theory nonsense.



I would need the evidence of actual numbers.  So far we have a compromised laboratory setting procuring the numbers you are using.  The data is unreliable.  It's not a conspiracy theory.  It's a legitimate point of failure.  It's also not "science".  It's an unsubstantiated belief.  Hence the 2+ years of another war with another unseen enemy.



Lacius said:


> You haven't stated any facts. You've made unsubstantiated claims.



That's just name-calling.  Are you contesting the point that there is financial incentive to garnish results?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> So far we have a compromised laboratory setting procuring the numbers you are using.  The data is unreliable.


Evidence please.



tabzer said:


> It's not a conspiracy theory.


Yes it is.



tabzer said:


> That's just name-calling.


You should learn what name-calling is, lol. I did zero name-calling.



tabzer said:


> Are you contesting the point that there is financial incentive to garnish results?


If you're going to say numbers are wrong because of a financial incentive to publish the wrong numbers, you have to demonstrate this claim. Even if you showed a financial incentive to report the wrong numbers, that doesn't demonstrate that the numbers have been misreported in any significant way. This is called jumping to conclusions.

In reality, COVID deaths are a lot more homogenous than hospitalization numbers. In other words, we see a lot more things in common with people who died of COVID (ventilators, COVID drugs, other treatments) vs. the people reported as having been hospitalized with COVID-19. There's no evidence the death numbers are significantly over reported.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I would need the evidence of actual numbers.  So far we have a compromised laboratory setting procuring the numbers you are using.  The data is unreliable.  It's not a conspiracy theory.  It's a legitimate point of failure.  It's also not "science".  It's an unsubstantiated belief.  Hence the 2+ years of another war with another unseen enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> That's just name-calling.  Are you contesting the point that there is financial incentive to garnish results?


So you are just admitting that you don't have the numbers and that it is a conspiracy. Because if you made claims and can't back them up, then that sounds like conspiracy nonsense to me. Either provide links or get your shit called out.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> If you're going to say numbers are wrong because of a financial incentive to publish the wrong numbers, you have to demonstrate this claim. Even if you showed a financial incentive to report the wrong numbers, that doesn't demonstrate that the numbers have been misreported in any significant way. This is called jumping to conclusions.
> 
> In reality, COVID deaths are a lot more homogenous than hospitalization numbers. In other words, we see a lot more things in common with people who died of COVID (ventilators, COVID drugs, other treatments) vs. the people reported as having been hospitalized with COVID-19. There's no evidence the death numbers are significantly over reported.



It looks like you are saying that even if there is financial incentive to over-report covid-deaths, we should still rely on the numbers that come from that.  I think that's ridiculous. 



The Catboy said:


> *Smug gay sounds*



No thank you.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It looks like you are saying that even if there is financial incentive to over-report covid-deaths, we should still rely on the numbers that come from that.  I think that's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> No thank you.


Why can't you provide a single link? Are you just that aware that you are spreading garbage?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It looks like you are saying that even if there is financial incentive to over-report covid-deaths, we should still rely on the numbers that come from that.  I think that's ridiculous.


There are various sources for the COVID-19 death numbers, and they comport with what's seen around the world without your conspiratorial explanations.

If you're going to argue the numbers are wrong, provide evidence.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> There are various sources for the COVID-19 death numbers, and they comport with what's seen around the world without your conspiratorial explanations.



What about supply and demand is conspiratorial @Lacius?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What about supply and demand is conspiratorial @Lacius?


It's only conspiratorial when you jump to conclusions.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What about supply and demand is conspiratorial @Lacius?


You've still not provided a single link to this post, which is what this was about in the first place


tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


Why are you still dragging this out? Post a link, at this point it could literally be anything, just as long as we understand where this information came from.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You've still not provided a single link to this post, which is what this was about in the first place
> 
> Why are you still dragging this out? Post a link, at this point it could literally be anything, just as long as we understand where this information came from.


He's objectively only got conjecture and conspiracy theories.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> He's objectively only got conjecture and conspiracy theories.


I am aware but I am interested if this actually came from somewhere or if he just made it up. At least the other conspiracy nuts actually post their sources. Sure, they misquote them or they have links to some cult, but at least they are being posted.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It's only conspiratorial when you jump to conclusions.


It is not a jump to say that financially incentivized bias is going to yield results.  That's not a conspiracy theory, lol.  That's economics.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It is not a jump to say that financially incentivized bias is going to yield results.  That's not a conspiracy theory, lol.  That's economics.


I feel like you are trying to change the topic because you still got nothing on literally everything you've posted. Just in case you forgot, we still haven't moved past this point


tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It is not a jump to say that financially incentivized bias is going to yield results.  That's not a conspiracy theory, lol.  That's economics.


Actually, it's an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory when you say it's what's happening, particularly when we have evidence the numbers are right. The deaths are more homogenous than the hospitalizations, and the numbers comport with what we're seeing all around the world where your alleged biases don't exist.

You're doing a lot more than acknowledging possible pressures for bias. You're saying it's happening. Demonstrate this claim.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Actually, it's an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory when you say it's what's happening, particularly when we have evidence the numbers are right. The deaths are more homogenous than the hospitalizations, and the numbers comport with what we're seeing all around the world where your alleged biases don't exist.
> 
> You're doing a lot more than acknowledging possible pressures for bias. You're saying it's happening. Demonstrate this claim.



What is happening is that the numbers are financially incentivized to report one way over the other.  This will get a larger number than an honest %100 accountability--the %110 I reference.  I think that's generous.  You are being unreasonable.



Lacius said:


> all around the world where your alleged biases don't exist


This is news to me.  Are you suggesting that the methods of data collection differ that much from country to country?  If so, how could that be seen as "comporting"?  Afaik, the methods of data collection are largely led by the recommendations of the WHO and CDC.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> What is happening is that the numbers are financially incentivized to report one way over the other.  This will get a larger number than an honest %100 accountability--the %110 I reference.  I think that's generous.  You are being unreasonable.


Instead of repeating your claim, can you demonstrate this is actually causing a significant misreporting to occur?


----------



## Glyptofane (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I feel like you are trying to change the topic because you still got nothing on literally everything you've posted. Just in case you forgot, we still haven't moved past this point


I think he means that CDC's definition of unvaccinated is “<14 (less than 14) days receipt of the first dose of a 2-dose series or 1 dose of the single-dose vaccine or if no vaccination registry data were available.” This means adverse events and deaths occurring within these circumstances would be counted by CDC as "unvaccinated" if they are even counted at all.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Instead of repeating your claim, can you demonstrate this is actually causing a significant misreporting to occur?


Suggesting that it is more reasonable to doubt that financial incentive would influence a reporting outcome is outrageous.

It's like denying that lobbying exists.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Suggesting that it is more reasonable to doubt that financial incentive would influence a reporting outcome is outrageous.
> 
> It's like denying that lobbying exists.


Suggesting how something could happen is not evidence it's actually occurring. I've also made numerous points as to how a significant misreporting is unlikely.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> I think he means that CDC's definition of unvaccinated is “<14 (less than 14) days receipt of the first dose of a 2-dose series or 1 dose of the single-dose vaccine or if no vaccination registry data were available.” This means adverse events and deaths occurring within these circumstances would be counted by CDC as "unvaccinated" if they are even counted at all.



That's an aspect I didn't consider.  I was mainly referencing this (English for you).


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Suggesting how something could happen is not evidence it's actually occurring. I've also made numerous points as to how a significant misreporting is unlikely.


Paying people to have Covid is going to yield more people with Covid than if you were not to pay them.  If you are bought and paid for by Pfizer, too, I would not be surprised.


----------



## Carmilla_Aran (Jan 22, 2022)

got it twice and some how still am the only person in my house whose been fully vaccinated


----------



## ccfman2004 (Jan 22, 2022)

I once had (according to my doctor) an extremely severe case of the flu yet I felt perfectly fine. The only reason I even went to the doctor is I wasn't hungry for 3 days and didn't eat anything for those 3 days.  My sister on the other hand, couldn't even get out of bed when she had it and she's pissed at me for having it easy. 

I know way too people who have gotten COVID.  This past week I've had to stay at my grandmother's house with my mother as my sister's fiancé got it and I wasn't taking any chances. For some reason my sister has felt perfectly fine the whole time even though they sleep in the same room.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> That's an aspect I didn't consider.  I was mainly referencing this (English for you).


I like how you deliberately ignored and misquoted details, then only included the scary sounding numbers to make it sound worse.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I like how you deliberately ignored and misquoted details and just only included the scary sounding numbers to make it sound worse.


That's not what happened at all.  Nice try.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Paying people to have Covid is going to yield more people with Covid than if you were not to pay them.  If you are bought and paid for by Pfizer, too, I would not be surprised.


Saying fraud could be committed is not evidence fraud has been committed.



Carmilla_Aran said:


> got it twice and some how still am the only person in my house whose been fully vaccinated


Two doses, which is what's normally meant by fully vaccinated, is only somewhat effective against omicron. Even with a booster, there is a significant (but low) chance of getting omicron. The good news is your symptoms were likely milder because of the vaccinations.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> That's not what happened at all.  Nice try.


Your quote


tabzer said:


> 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths.  This is an obvious double-standard.


Actual quote from the source


> Of the 1,325 people who died after getting COVID shots as of Oct. 24, 1,279 had Pfizer Inc. shots and 46 received Moderna vaccines. Deaths tend to be higher among those receiving Pfizer vaccines, which are widely available to elderly people.
> 
> Experts have concluded that an overwhelming number of the deaths following COVID shots cannot be evaluated. Of the 1,325 cases, it was ruled that a causal relationship between vaccines and deaths could not be confirmed in 1,317 -- including 1,272 in which people received Pfizer shots -- due to a lack of information and other reasons. Experts have drawn conclusions for just eight people. In all of these eight cases, they say a causal relationship between vaccination and their deaths cannot be confirmed.
> 
> Among the 1,325, the most common causes of death included ischemic heart disease, heart failure and strokes. Eighty-four percent of the deceased were aged 65 or older. Because elderly people are more likely to die from chronic illnesses, investigation can be difficult. Eight individuals whose deaths were said to have no causal relationship were considered to have suffered from the progression of chronic diseases such as cancer.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Saying fraud could be committed is not evidence fraud has been committed.



Statistically, we can count on it.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Your quote
> 
> Actual quote from the source



Yep, 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence.  You gonna return to eating your own ass any time soon?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Statistically, we can count on it.


You haven't provided the statistics or any other evidence.

You just made a quantifiable claim about real numbers. Put up or shut up.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Yep, 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence.  You gonna return to eating your own ass any time soon?


It took this many pages to make your claim vaguely connected to something. So what was the point of you bringing that up? Was it evidence of the vaccines being harmful or just spend days dragging it out until you loosely strung together a slightly cohesive post?


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Yep, 99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence.  You gonna return to eating your own ass any time soon?


Ignoring COVID deaths, there was no change in the death rate before and after COVID vaccinations. We can say with extreme confidence that the vaccines are not life threatening in any meaningful or measurable way. You've been informed of this already. If you are going to argue the vaccines pose any significant risk to one's health or mortality, you need to put up or shut up.


----------



## FlorAid (Jan 22, 2022)

probably


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> You haven't provided the statistics or any other evidence.
> 
> You just made a quantifiable claim about real numbers. Put up or shut up.



We can count on fraud occurring. It is counter-intuitive to assume that in this special case, where the increased rewards encourage greater risk-taking behavior, that there would be a reduction in fraud.



The Catboy said:


> It took this many pages to make your claim vaguely connected to something. So what was the point of you bringing that up? Was it evidence of the vaccines being harmful or just spend days dragging it out until you loosely strung together a slightly cohesive post?



If you are unable to articulate the inconsistencies between my claim and what the article states, just hold onto your sour grapes for as long as you can.



Lacius said:


> Ignoring COVID deaths, there was no change in the death rate before and after COVID vaccinations. We can say with extreme confidence that the vaccines are not life threatening in any meaningful or measurable way. You've been informed of this already. If you are going to argue the vaccines pose any significant risk to one's health or mortality, you need to put up or shut up.



You are responding to a statistic that I didn't make up.  If you remember, I mentioned that in point to the inconsistency between measuring covid-related deaths and measuring vaccination-related deaths, not as a proof that vaccines cause death, but that the data is being interpreted to favor vaccines.  If the data of people dying after being vaccinated was treated the same way that covid-related deaths are generally treated, we'd see the data being reinterpreted as 99% of people who died after being vaccinated as to having a connection with the vaccine.

I don't know what numbers you are referencing about death rate, but from the first impression, the lack of change in deathrate suggests that the vaccines aren't effective.

My proof that vaccines aren't safe was based on the fact that the CDC revised their risk assessment showing that conclusions were jumped to instead of substantiated as scientific fact--while your claims remained unfazed and completely lacked deference to the fact that people should assume personal responsibility when it comes to taking the risk.  The "safe and effective" is propaganda that washes over the risks and is inherently greedy on your part.


----------



## kisamesama (Jan 22, 2022)

Alexander1970 said:


> Yes,Mister Doktor.
> I am very happy we have People like you who knows best for all Human Beings.
> Thank you for your only Opinion.Now I can sleep better and Life is good again.


ur welcome


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> We can count on fraud occurring.


Showing that misreporting is possible is not a demonstration that it's actually occurring. Without evidence, it's nothing more than conspiratorial conjecture. Try again.



tabzer said:


> If you are unable to articulate the inconsistencies between my claim and what the article states, just hold onto your sour grapes for as long as you can.


If you are unable to articulate any evidence for your bold claims about vaccine efficacy, vaccine safety, COVID death numbers, etc., just hold on to your sour grapes for as long as you can.

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.



tabzer said:


> If the data of people dying after being vaccinated was treated the same way that covid-related deaths are generally treated, we'd see the data being reinterpreted as 99% of people who died after being vaccinated as to having a connection with the vaccine.


You haven't demonstrated that COVID deaths are being misreported in any significant way.



tabzer said:


> I don't know what numbers you are referencing about death rate, but from the first impression, the lack of change in deathrate suggests that the vaccines aren't effective.


The fact that approximately 90% of COVID deaths are unvaccinated is evidence enough that the vaccines are extremely effective. We've also seen a reduction in overall deaths since the peak of the pandemic, despite delta being more deadly/infectious and omicron being more infectious. Vaccines work, and the science proves it.



tabzer said:


> My proof that vaccines aren't safe was based on the fact that the CDC revised their risk assessment showing that conclusions were jumped to instead of substantiated as scientific fact


There was nothing about what the CDC said that suggested the vaccines were unsafe or at all potentially life-threatening. Try again. Coming up with exceedingly rare side effects at a time when the CDC said "there might be 1-in-a-million side effects we're presently unaware of" doesn't contradict the fact that the vaccines are extremely safe and effective.

We are roughly a year from the first release of the vaccines. We've learned more about them, but their safety and efficacy has withstood the test of time after hundreds of millions of doses. Our confidence in the vaccines' safety and efficacy is stronger now than it has ever been.


----------



## Frexxos (Jan 22, 2022)

My Expierience here:

*Got covid end of 2020: *
From one Moment to another I was knocked out for two days straight. Felt like strong fever. Everything was blurry in my thoughts. But after two days everything was normal.
Three days after Infection lost smell and taste. This came back after almost 1,5 months. But the smell/taste for onions and eggs was completely different. Those two things were horribly stinking and I could not eat this anymore. After almost one year, the smell and test for onion / eggs came back to normal.

*Vaxxed middle 2021:*
No complications. Felt no difference to before.

*End of 2021: *
Got covid again - but absolute with no side effects or pain at all.

*Beginn of 2022: *
Again vaxxed - no comlications, no difference to before.

In the past I was joking around. But this disease is real. Maybe not directly killing people - but defintitely indirect:
My father-in-law had pneumonia and then got covid on top of that. unfortunately he didn't make it out of the hospital and died from the covid + pneumonia mix at 63 years old.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

Frexxos said:


> My Expierience here:
> 
> *Got covid end of 2020: *
> From one Moment to another I was knocked out for two days straight. Felt like strong fever. Everything was blurry in my thoughts. But after two days everything was normal.
> ...


While it's true that the vast majority of COVID deaths are people who are elderly and/or have comorbidities, the disease is definitely killing people directly.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 22, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Showing that misreporting is possible is not a demonstration that it's actually occurring. Without evidence, it's nothing more than conspiratorial conjecture. Try again.


Statistics are not conspiratorial conjecture.  You are clearly pretending that fraud doesn't exist, only for the covid-reporting.  It is beyond daft.  It's an embarrassment.  Your entire response is riddled with bad-faith anti-science.  Enjoy your new religion.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 22, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Statistics are not conspiratorial conjecture.  You are clearly pretending that fraud doesn't exist, only for the covid-reporting.  It is beyond daft.  It's an embarrassment.


You haven't provided any statistics, so I'm not the one who should be embarrassed.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

Frexxos said:


> My Expierience here:
> 
> *Got covid end of 2020: *
> From one Moment to another I was knocked out for two days straight. Felt like strong fever. Everything was blurry in my thoughts. But after two days everything was normal.
> ...


What do you do for a living or in your daily life that keeps you so exposed? I am asking because I am interested in making sure I am not as regularly exposed. Getting Covid once and still dealing with complications weeks later made me realize I should make sure I go harder at avoiding any possible exposures.


----------



## Cyan (Jan 22, 2022)

I work at a public office, see hundred of people daily, touch all they are touching and giving me, and I don't think I ever got it.
If I did, I was asymptomatic. I've never been contact case, and never have been tested either.

So far, I also didn't get any other illness, no flu, no cold, nothing for years. Maybe being careful and applying barrier gesture is enough for me. (mask, washing hands, distance, not doing stupid things like licking my hands or touching my nose with unwashed hands...)
Or maybe my immune system is very much boosted due to being in contact with a lot of people every day. seems T-lymphocytes are acting against Covid too, which I might have in excess being exposed to so much potentially ill people every day.
that's just hypothetical, I never did any blood test either.
Or maybe I'm immune to covid, and government will try to catch me and open my brain to make a vaccine.... wait, I've played too much zombie games and seen too much scifi movies 

Other than my work, I only go out for shopping. I don't go to crowded places, or restaurant, events, etc. just common senses.


----------



## Frexxos (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> What do you do for a living or in your daily life that keeps you so exposed? I am asking because I am interested in making sure I am not as regularly exposed. Getting Covid once and still dealing with complications weeks later made me realize I should make sure I go harder at avoiding any possible exposures.


That's the weird thing: I work in the office - no physical customer contact at all. Have almost no contact with other people. When I was sick, neither family nor children had the covid. And like cyan: "Other than my work, I only go out for shopping. I don't go to crowded places, or restaurant, events, etc. just common senses."


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

Cyan said:


> I work at a public office, see hundred of people daily, touch all they are touching and giving me, and I don't think I ever got it.
> If I did, I was asymptomatic. I've never been contact case, and never have been tested either.
> 
> So far, I also didn't get any other illness, no flu, no cold, nothing for years. Maybe being careful and applying barrier gesture is enough for me. (mask, washing hands, distance, not doing stupid things like licking my hands or touching my nose with unwashed hands...)
> ...





Frexxos said:


> That's the weird thing: I work in the office - no physical customer contact at all. Have almost no contact with other people. When I was sick, neither family nor children had the covid. And like cyan: "Other than my work, I only go out for shopping. I don't go to crowded places, or restaurant, events, etc. just common senses."


Interesting, when my wife and I got sick, neither of us had regularly go out in public much. Due my immune disorder, my wife does much of the shopping and other public stuff since I tend to get sick way too easily. I kind of wonder how much exposure happens when shopping, like how often handling produce that might be contaminated? Or how often we are exposed through asymptomatic people? Do either of you have immune issues?


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Interesting, when my wife and I got sick, neither of us had regularly go out in public much. Due my immune disorder, my wife does much of the shopping and other public stuff since I tend to get sick way too easily. I kind of wonder how much exposure happens when shopping, like how often handling produce that might be contaminated? Or how often we are exposed through asymptomatic people? Do either of you have immune issues?


That's one of the scary things about it. Considering how COVID can be spread airborne and on surfaces and can survive within hours to days, all the more reason to be careful when touching things or walking around in public spaces. You never truly know if you're infected and/or a carrier until you find out from testing and/or actually getting sick from it.


----------



## Frexxos (Jan 22, 2022)

None of known immune issues at all. I am also not often sick. Sometimes the cold. But also Covid did not affected me so hard. Can't tell about maybe "long covid" but right now I am feeling good.
Yeah in the shops it is really weird. People are touching / sniffing on stuff all the time. Thousends of people in a big store... and if this stuff stays for hours and can infect... well you can't do anything.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

LinkmstrYT said:


> That's one of the scary things about it. Considering how COVID can be spread airborne and on surfaces and can survive within hours to days, all the more reason to be careful when touching things or walking around in public spaces. You never truly know if you're infected and/or a carrier until you find out from testing and/or actually getting sick from it.


That’s kind of why I rarely go outside but of course that can be compromised by the need to actually get food and stuff or just the fact that I live with other people who do have jobs and social lives.


Frexxos said:


> None of known immune issues at all. I am also not often sick. Sometimes the cold. But also Covid did not affected me so hard. Can't tell about maybe "long covid" but right now I am feeling good.
> Yeah in the shops it is really weird. People are touching / sniffing on stuff all the time. Thousends of people in a big store... and if this stuff stays for hours and can infect... well you can't do anything.


I guess if there’s anything I can learn is just being more careful. Was hoping there was a common ground but I am definitely the stand out with my crap immune system.


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Jan 22, 2022)

Frexxos said:


> None of known immune issues at all. I am also not often sick. Sometimes the cold. But also Covid did not affected me so hard. Can't tell about maybe "long covid" but right now I am feeling good.


At the very least, you should be fine since you're properly vaccinated and got through the second COVID infection without any issues like the first time.


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Jan 22, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That’s kind of why I rarely go outside but of course that can be compromised by the need to actually get food and stuff or just the fact that I live with other people who do have jobs and social lives.


Yeah, all the more reason for people to get vaccinated so that those that are immunocompromised or similar can live safer during this pandemic.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 22, 2022)

LinkmstrYT said:


> Yeah, all the more reason for people to get vaccinated so that those that are immunocompromised or similar can live safer during this pandemic.


I kind of wish people would see it that way but it honestly feels like a lot of people either don't care or aren't aware. There's also the anti-vacc crowd that seems blissfully unaware of their damages and even defends the damages they are causing. Either way, my ability to live a healthy life is often compromised when I go outside and that sucks.


----------



## Cyan (Jan 22, 2022)

I don't have any immune issue, on the contrary. I'm rarely ill.
I also don't act overly paranoid either, like disinfecting items or food I bought at the shop. I just put things I bought directly in the fridge, or closet etc.
I don't care too much, not too afraid, but don't do reckless things either. in 0 to 10, I'd say I care 3 or 4. for example, I wear masks, but don't bleach or wash them every day, even reuse them few days.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 23, 2022)

Cyan said:


> I don't have any immune issue, on the contrary. I'm rarely ill.
> I also don't act overly paranoid either, like disinfecting items or food I bought at the shop. I just put things I bought directly in the fridge, or closet etc.
> I don't care too much, not too afraid, but don't do reckless things either. in 0 to 10, I'd say I care 3 or 4. for example, I wear masks, but don't bleach or wash them every day, even reuse them few days.


Fair enough, I guess the only connection is the occasional outside world visits. Was hoping I wasn’t alone in the potato-ass immune system gang on the Temp


----------



## DancingLettuce (Jan 23, 2022)

The only times I've been tested for COVID came back negative, and I've never felt any symptoms of it. Then again I'm a person who rarely gets sick from anything so for all I know I could've been asymptomatic at some point.


----------



## kisamesama (Jan 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I kind of wish people would see it that way but it honestly feels like a lot of people either don't care or aren't aware. There's also the anti-vacc crowd that seems blissfully unaware of their damages and even defends the damages they are causing. Either way, my ability to live a healthy life is often compromised when I go outside and that sucks.


Covid proves and re-enforce that most people are just plain selfish. that's just it


----------



## tabzer (Jan 23, 2022)

If someone views that vaccinating the world as the only way for the world (ie. themselves) to stay safe, then it is understandable that anything that makes it look anything less than perfect (ie. safe and effective™) might be a threat to the process of getting the whole world on board with taking it.

Even if we manage to convince, coerce, or even force people to follow an indefinitely effective regiment of safe injections, we will also have to convince the selfish animals that are capable of contracting it as well.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If someone views that vaccinating the world as the only way for the world (ie. themselves) to stay safe, then it is understandable that anything that makes it look anything less than perfect (ie. safe and effective™) might be a threat to the process of getting the whole world on board with taking it.
> 
> Even if we manage to convince, coerce, or even force people to follow an indefinitely effective regiment of safe injections, we will also have to convince the selfish animals that are capable of contracting it as well.


Vaccinating animals before sale is actually a law in many places and hopefully this incident makes it a law in more places. I hate that animals had to be killed as a result of this but I do hope their deaths aren’t in vain. Hopefully this starts vaccine research and trials for animals as well.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Vaccinating animals before sale is actually a law in many places and hopefully this incident makes it a law in more places. I hate that animals had to be killed as a result of this but I do hope their deaths aren’t in vain. Hopefully this starts vaccine research and trials for animals as well.


Keep in mind humans are animals too, so maybe human experimentation isn't so bad...?


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 23, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Keep in mind humans are animals too, so maybe human experimentation isn't so bad...?


Human medical trials are already used for medical testing. My wife was actually part of the vaccine trials for J&J.


----------



## Glyptofane (Jan 23, 2022)

tabzer said:


> If someone views that vaccinating the world as the only way for the world (ie. themselves) to stay safe, then it is understandable that anything that makes it look anything less than perfect (ie. safe and effective™) might be a threat to the process of getting the whole world on board with taking it.
> 
> Even if we manage to convince, coerce, or even force people to follow an indefinitely effective regiment of safe injections, we will also have to convince the selfish animals that are capable of contracting it as well.


They preach fascism on behalf of the government and pharmaceutical companies while calling themselves antifascist. It definitely is as you say embarrassing and also quite a pathetic abandonment of the values they once alleged to possess.


----------



## GinOkami428 (Jan 23, 2022)

Yes, *I have had it.* It is _*ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!*_ While my family some friends *ARE* antivax for personal reasons: some of those reasons include how both my own mother and a family friend both have compromised immune systems, as in they get sick by *MOST EVERY LITTLE THING, *allergies, my mother and I both have had issues in the past with vaccinations. I can't take, I believe, the Polio vaccine, as it contains penicillin, I also can't have tetanus, and possibly amoxicillin, as my leg swollen up all the way up to the hip when I was *A LOT YOUNGER.* My mother also has *HORRIBLE *allergies, and is allergic to *NEARLY EVERY LITTLE THING! *But, even though we have those problems, *I HIGHLY RECCOMEND PEOPLE CONTINUE TO SOCIAL DISTANCE, WEAR MASKS, NOT GO ANYWHERE THAT HAS BEEN COMPROMISED OR IF YOU YOURSELF HAVE BEEN SICK, AVOID LARGE CROWDS, GET THE VACCINE!!! I CAN'T STRESS THAT ONE ENOUGH, BUT MOST OF ALL, STAY SAFE. *Sorry, for all the bold, italicized words, but I *NEED* to get my point across, that again, *I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH!!!*

I am a 30 year old, High-Spectrum Autistic, man who lives with his mother, his younger brother, and a pet black, possibly Maine Coone Mix, cat. We had Covid just last month/last year. My mother and I honestly believe we had it the start of the year back in January, as she was *VERY* sick, and started losing both her sense of smell and taste. I was also pretty sick, felt *BEYOND* exhausted, didn't want to move out of bed, couldn't move without body aches, the works. So... once that was over. I took a life skills class supported by an Autism support group, and someone had the virus on its final week (the class was only six weeks). I and my family ended up quarantined for 14 days, no symptoms, no big deal. But then the following week, I had an *OTHER* life skills class, and *THAT* final week, *I HAD COVID!* So, the issue was, my brother felt stomach pains, so he probably had it, and my mother eventually started showing signs. So we were all sick with Covid for several weeks, and that is when unfortunately, my mother's breathing was getting labored. I didn't think much about it, as my mother has *REALLY BAD* asthma, and sleeping issues. I even asked her one night when her breathing was bad "Are you, okay?" and she replied back with "Yeah, I'm fine! Why do you ask?" and I told her. She just ignored it stating it was just because of her sleeping, but I think she mentioned her chest hurt, which was a bit concerning, but I was *NOT READY *for what would happen next!

That night my brother comes rushing into my bedroom, around 3am EST, and informs me he had called an *AMBULANCE, *as my mother's breathing had gotten *WAY* too labored... it *WASN'T Just asthma or Covid. IT WAS COVID PNEUMONIA! *They hulled her off to the hospital and she has been there ever since, fighting for her life. That was Dec. 25, Christmas... who would have thought? By then my brother and I were through with this *EVIL, INHUMANE, NEARLY NOT SURVIVABLE, DEADLY, DEVILISH THING OF A VIRUS.*

Luckily though, they got her on meds that cleared and healed her lungs, and she _*IS*_ stable. However, they had to take her off of it and/or the machine, as one of them could have caused her to have compromised kidneys!!! She is supposed to rushed to a "cleaner" room by herself so my brother and I can visit her. We will get to see her finally after *FIGURIVELY *a year, and *LITTERALLY* a month, almost 2!!! So, between that, and cleaning around our trailer and having to rush around cleaning. My anger (and believe me, I have a *DANGEROUSLY FIRERY ANGER, TO THE POINT I WOULD CALL IT "DEMONIC"!), *hatred*, PARANOIA *and *PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, AND SPIRITUALLY OVERWHELMING* stress. I'm lost. I am *BEYOND HURT AND LONELY*, but my aunt and some family friends have been *VERY KIND AND SUPPORTIVE, AND I CAN'T THANK THEM ENOUGH!

COVID IS HORRIBLE!  MY *symptoms included feeling like had either strep, or bronchitis, with a sore chest and throat, *MASSIVE *nausea, a *MIGRAINE, *diarrhea, itchy, watery, eyes. Etc. You can either show symptoms, or *NOT HAVE ANY SYMPTOMS AT ALL!*


----------



## Taleweaver (Jan 23, 2022)

Nothing thus far, but I now think it's just a matter of time. 
* boss had it about a month ago. One of his children as well, much more recent. 
* then it were the neighbors. About half of the five persons. They're just recovering now
* brother's family has it (brother, his daughter and girlfriend. Just by accident not their son... Yet). Extra scary : they were here just last week to celebrate our daughter's 2nd birthday
* got a call from the daycare center today : two of the staff tested positive. 

So... Thus far nothing for me or my family yet (okay, not covid... Just stomach ache). But the way things are going, i believe we're just lucky right now.


----------



## Deathwing Zero (Jan 23, 2022)

I'm pretty confident I have it right now. As to which variant, I don't know. I haven't been tested, however I got it from my Mom, who did test positive. Mom's a frontline worker, so she gets weekly tests and has had boosters, in fact she got it on the day she was supposed to get another booster shot. I am also vaccinated. I've only had it for 3 or 4 days so far, however my symptoms haven't been too bad. Nor has my Mom's, who is also immuno-compromised. 

Right now, I have a mild headache, slightly reduced hearing in right ear (kind of like impacted wax or something), a cough, obviously, which leads to sore throat, and my nose is burning. In regards to taste of food, no changes. I can taste and smell everything just fine. If anything changes throughout the coming weeks I'll post an update if anyone cares. Hoping it's not a calm before the storm sort of situation, but we'll see what happens.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 23, 2022)

Deathwing Zero said:


> I'm pretty confident I have it right now. As to which variant, I don't know. I haven't been tested, however I got it from my Mom, who did test positive. Mom's a frontline worker, so she gets weekly tests and has had boosters, in fact she got it on the day she was supposed to get another booster shot. I am also vaccinated. I've only had it for 3 or 4 days so far, however my symptoms haven't been too bad. Nor has my Mom's, who is also immuno-compromised.
> 
> Right now, I have a mild headache, slightly reduced hearing in right ear (kind of like impacted wax or something), a cough, obviously, which leads to sore throat, and my nose is burning. In regards to taste of food, no changes. I can taste and smell everything just fine. If anything changes throughout the coming weeks I'll post an update if anyone cares. Hoping it's not a calm before the storm sort of situation, but we'll see what happens.


Anecdotally, I'm hearing that the headaches are more common with omicron vs. earlier viruses. If it is omicron, and you're vaccinated, this will hopefully be the worst it gets. Good luck.


----------



## tabzer (Jan 23, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Vaccinating animals before sale is actually a law in many places and hopefully this incident makes it a law in more places. I hate that animals had to be killed as a result of this but I do hope their deaths aren’t in vain. Hopefully this starts vaccine research and trials for animals as well.


My hamster is triple vaccinated, and screw China's actions in treating its hamsters like its people.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Anecdotally, I'm hearing that the headaches are more common with omicron vs. earlier viruses. If it is omicron, and you're vaccinated, this will hopefully be the worst it gets. Good luck.


I heard the same. My wife and I had delta, both of us experienced headaches and weird lightheaded feeling. It was definitely not a headache either of us have ever felt before and hopefully never again.


----------



## slaphappygamer (Jan 24, 2022)

No. Never caught it. Me and our family are very careful. I work with people, inside their homes, at their businesses. I always wear a mask and am fully vaccinated. Everyone tests before holiday get togethers and after high exposure scenarios. Gotta say that masks do work, as long as you wear them right.


----------



## Ricken (Jan 24, 2022)

It was delivered to me by family; I had Omicron, but my symptoms were fully alleviate-able with my asthma inhaler thankfully

2 doses of Moderna


----------



## BeniBel (Jan 24, 2022)

I've had it twice. Once at the very beginning, second time last month. Second time was the "worst", with the Delta variant. Had a fever and felt extremely tired. I have heart issues and lung issues, so I do lose energy fast. I experienced it as a good flu, same for my wife. I'm not vaccinated, so the good thing is that I've got a recovery certificate and now can go everywhere again for the next 6 months.

My wife's uncle is 73, and wasn't as lucky. Two vaccinationd and ended up in a coma for 17 days. Now he has a long recovery ahead of him. My sister in law and her husband are also vaccinated, and they were ill for a good 2 weeks. It's all a bit luck.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Jan 24, 2022)

Holy shit!
A simple *Yes-No* question really turned into something else huh?

No wonder why this pandemic hasn't ended... people can't follow instructions lel.

This message has been sponsored by Procter&Gamble ®


----------



## tabzer (Jan 24, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> Holy shit!
> A simple *Yes-No* question really turned into something else huh?
> 
> No wonder why this pandemic hasn't ended... people can't follow instructions lel.
> ...



I know I did my part in not spreading corona, but the government decided to extend its 2 weeks ad infinitum anyway.  Who could have predicted that when they said "2 weeks", that they would break their promise?  The government would never misrepresent themselves.  There must be a valid explanation, and I think you are onto it.  I look forward to the next time I that I can blindly trust a group of power hungry people that treat constituents like currency and fodder.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 25, 2022)

JuanMena said:


> Holy shit!
> A simple *Yes-No* question really turned into something else huh?
> 
> No wonder why this pandemic hasn't ended... people can't follow instructions lel.
> ...


Kind of the sad reality of this topic. Instead of simple answers, you get anti-vaxxors making garbage claims vs people doing their best to debunk them.


----------



## smf (Jan 25, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Well of course not, considering your general attitude, it's not because you choose to ignore what's actually going on around you and refuse to look into the subject more and just take the droll the government gives out, nope, it's because you believe in the science like a good sheep model citizen that you are.


Who truly are the sheep?

Those who listen to science, or those who listen to facebook/twitter loons?

In the UK, we're trying to take the prime minister down for his failings during the pandemic. So I'm not sure we're classed as good model citizens. But that doesn't change the science.


----------



## smf (Jan 25, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Who could have predicted that when they said "2 weeks", that they would break their promise?


Was it a promise? 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...-quarantine-to-boost-economy-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

*Trump tweeted. "AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!"*

I was under the impression restrictions were going to last six months, right at the start. I wasn't alone.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-white-house-15-day-plan-too-short-2020-3?r=US&IR=T


----------



## appleburger (Jan 25, 2022)

I was pretty safe, until I started dating the second half of 2020, and wound up catching it from a pharmacist who went out to a rave the night before.  I didn't know until she was at my place, bragging about how her and her friends went out partying all night during a pandemic.  I assumed, since she was in the medical field that she would know better...

The flu like symptoms weren't so bad, but the breathing issues that cropped up a week in were pretty scary.  I'm an active guy, and going up the stairs would have me completely winded, and I could feel the fluid in my lungs if I bent my back.  Lost taste and smell, which was weird, but whatever - it came back.

My breathing never completely returned to normal, though.  To this day I'm about 90% what my breathing used to be.  When I breathe in, it feels like my lungs just can't expand fully anymore.  Thankfully it never got any worse.  I was 30 when I caught it.

And on top of that, both me and my roommate had a lot of brain fog for about a month after catching it.  Sort of felt like I was woke up in the middle of the night and just couldn't get my focus back.  Or, kind of like a mild THC high.  Tasks as simple as reading an email were way more difficult than they should have been.  I had to have meeting with my bosses telling them I was struggling to focus on anything, and thankfully they were pretty understanding.

Thankfully I wound up being fine, but it was definitely a bizarre experience for both me and my roommate.


----------



## mammastuffing (Jan 25, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I hate that animals had to be killed as a result of this but I do hope their deaths aren’t in vain.


Well, it's no worse than the near 4 billion animals that have been slaughtered in the U.S in 2022.


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## The Catboy (Jan 25, 2022)

mammastuffing said:


> Well, it's no worse than the near 4 billion animals that have been slaughtered in the U.S in 2022.


Are you about to post some PETA shit?


----------



## Glyptofane (Jan 26, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It isn't a scam. They're free.


Turns out they're sending out Chinese tests lol. Yikes!


----------



## Lacius (Jan 26, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Turns out they're sending out Chinese tests lol. Yikes!


If you have a point, make it.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 26, 2022)

Lacius said:


> If you have a point, make it.


He doesn't, he's just reminding us that's he's extremely racist. This isn't a joke, he's actually a neo-nazi.


----------



## djpannda (Jan 26, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> He doesn't, he's just reminding us that's he's extremely racist. This isn't a joke, he's actually a neo-nazi.


its sad, we are at the end times, when "punching a NAZI in the face" is controversial. All the WWII Vets are rolling in the graves...


----------



## abtinhitodie (Jan 26, 2022)

no, not here


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## tabzer (Jan 26, 2022)

djpannda said:


> its sad, we are at the end times, when "punching a NAZI in the face" is controversial. All the WWII Vets are rolling in the graves...


RIP in peace America.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Jan 28, 2022)

Apologies for taking so long to respond to this, crazy past few days, but to be honest, I don't think to begin to refute the points you presented, I'm not sure I should even bother. But tell ya what, how about we do some role play? I'll play the part of the crazy right wing racist bigoted conspiracy theorist and will attempt to refute these points.



The Catboy said:


> This is not a verified source and the claims are suspect at best. Checking through the comments shows more questions about the article and the legitimacy of the editorial.


And what's a "verified" source to you? The lies the Mainstream media tells on a daily basis? It's not even conspiratorial anymore, they either get caught saying out loud to other people  or just outright say it live since they don't even bother to hide it anymore, and even occasionally getting caught in a hot mike moment. So tell me, why should I believe in what most of the vile stuff the media spews out on a daily basis as true when they lie and admit that they lie and perpetuate bias constantly


The Catboy said:


> You deliberately misinterpreted my request here and then posted far-right websites that misquote or makeup stories. They don't properly cite their sources and you would realize that if you actually researched the topic instead of just believing shit that confirms your beliefs.


And referring to my comment above, one could say you do the same in believing the lies you've been brainwashed to believe.


The Catboy said:


> You used the same conspiracy site and outdated articles that were written before the understanding of Delta and Omicron.


We've had scientests numerous times throughout the two years saying stuff like cloth masks don't work and that the shots aren't that effective, that you can still catch and spread the virus. 2 years. But it only matters now since the CDC and Dr. Science God Fauci say it. It shouldn't even be called a vaccine. Vaccine's give immunity. This only strengthens your body to the virus, but you can still get it. That's not a vaccine, that itself is just a booster shot to begin with. But forgive me for using logic here.


The Catboy said:


> Again with the same conspiracy site coupled with a clear understanding that you didn't read any of the sources.


And again, one could say the same with you since you clearly don't understand what you're talking about.


The Catboy said:


> Most of your posts are the same conspiracy site that is provably an organization that spreads misinformation, which of course you dismissed. Can you actually prove that it's a trustworthy site? You didn't even address the concerns with the ties to a far-right political and religious cult. Why is it that you misquote sources and post nonsense, then get snippy when people call you out on it?


Can YOU prove the outlets YOU listen to are trustworthy? Not that you THINK it is, but that they don't lie and have been transparent from the start and haven't lied or withheld facts from the beginning? You may say yes, but then that would be a lie, so no you couldn't, even if you say you can. I get snippy because we have people like you spreading actual misinformation and mock those who actually know what's happening with the virus and stuff. You've most likely been brainwashed, are scared, or are just plain stupid. Call Ad hominem attacks all you want, but sometimes the truth is the truth and it needs to be said, and I gave two shits about people fee-fee's a long time ago. You and others constantly talk about others spreading consipratorial nonsense and misinformation when you believe and spread it yourself, which is the typical lack of self-awareness, as in none at all, I expect.

Of course this'll all go over your head, so I'm not giving anymore sources and try not to waste too much of my time after this since it'll go over your head. You and a lot of other people here and in your safe space, happily circle jerking each other off and making yourselves feel superior and mocking people like me who think they don't know what they're talking about because you know the moment you step out of your comfort zone, reality is gonna hit you incredibly hard. I know you and others will write this off as "other lunatic Trump supporter" or some shit, but if you have just one functioning brain cell left in your head, I'd say take heed of this and mull it over, but I'm not holing my breath. Until then, whenever you ask for sources you're just gonna ignore, I should warm people not to waste their time and breath on something that's gonna be a big waste of time that you'll just discredit simply because it doesn't follow your views that you've been falsely led to believe.



The Catboy said:


> Human medical trials are already used for medical testing. My wife was actually part of the vaccine trials for J&J.


Did you get paid or was it free? Well, it's your wife's life but that's not something I would advise others to do.



Lacius said:


> If you have a point, make it.


If you have a brain, use it. See, I can make smart ass responses as well.



djpannda said:


> its sad, we are at the end times, when "punching a NAZI in the face" is controversial. All the WWII Vets are rolling in the graves...


Can't relate, since I hate almost all, if not every, extremist group out there. And I'm talking about the actual ones, not ones like when people shout "NAZI" if someone else doesn't agree to their own extreme agenda. Facism and Socialism/Communism, BLM and KKK, Antifa and the like can burn for all I care. WWII vets are rolling in their graves, but not for the reasons you think.


smf said:


> Who truly are the sheep?
> 
> Those who listen to science, or those who listen to facebook/twitter loons?
> 
> In the UK, we're trying to take the prime minister down for his failings during the pandemic. So I'm not sure we're classed as good model citizens. But that doesn't change the science.


Didn't your prime minister also get caught hypocritically holding a big birthday party bash at the time where everybody was locked down in their homes "social distancing" from everybody else? That could also be a reason why people want to take him down, but that's just me.


----------



## Lacius (Jan 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Apologies for taking so long to respond to this, crazy past few days


COVID-19 can hit the unvaccinated pretty hard. I'm glad to see you're out of the hospital and okay.


----------



## smf (Jan 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> dn't your prime minister also get caught hypocritically holding a big birthday party bash at the time where everybody was locked down in their homes "social distancing" from everybody else? That could also be a reason why people want to take him down, but that's just me.


A good citizen/sheep would be fine with his behavior.


----------



## Paulsar99 (Jan 28, 2022)

Got it twice. First was last year then got the damn omicron a few weeks ago. Thank god it was only flu and chills for me but nothing serious.


----------



## The Catboy (Jan 28, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Apologies for taking so long to respond to this, crazy past few days, but to be honest, I don't think to begin to refute the points you presented, I'm not sure I should even bother. But tell ya what, how about we do some role play? I'll play the part of the crazy right wing racist bigoted conspiracy theorist and will attempt to refute these points.
> 
> 
> And what's a "verified" source to you? The lies the Mainstream media tells on a daily basis? It's not even conspiratorial anymore, they either get caught saying out loud to other people  or just outright say it live since they don't even bother to hide it anymore, and even occasionally getting caught in a hot mike moment. So tell me, why should I believe in what most of the vile stuff the media spews out on a daily basis as true when they lie and admit that they lie and perpetuate bias constantly
> ...


Wow, that’s a lot a of words and not a single one actually said anything of value. Get well soon.


----------



## Dead2009 (Feb 1, 2022)

Tested positive last week even though im fully vaxxed. Only had mild symptoms though, stuffy nose and a cough.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 6, 2022)

Apologies again for the late reply, another crazy, busy week of running around, but honestly I don't' know why I should even bother replying since I clearly got schooled. My whole world view is changed now, but just for the hell of it, let's role play again and once again I'll play as the right-wing nutjob white supremacist conspiracy theorist fascist and attempt to respond back to the deepening and eye opening replies here.



Lacius said:


> COVID-19 can hit the unvaccinated pretty hard. I'm glad to see you're out of the hospital and okay.


Sorry to crush your dreams, but unlike like some people, I do have a life outside here that needs attending you, but thanks for the smile emoji nonetheless! It's appreciated!


smf said:


> A good citizen/sheep would be fine with his behavior.


So you're ok with your overlords not leading my example and just hypocritically doing whatever they want and to impose laws on you and the plebes? Ok, if that makes you happy, but not everyone wants that and think it's fair. You can be a sheep if you like while others fight for freedom and fairness.


The Catboy said:


> Wow, that’s a lot a of words and not a single one actually said anything of value. Get well soon.


Insightful reply. Really. You truly attempted to refute my points and not just try to respond with anything as if you don't have an argument or anything. It's not like you want to see the truth and just purposely ignore it because you refuse to go outside the brainwash you've been suggested to. Here's an idea. if you can't read all of that, get your wife's boyfriend to help you read it.


----------



## Rabbid4240 (Feb 6, 2022)

let's just say the worst part about having covid is not being able to taste chocolate


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> It's not like you want to see the truth and just purposely ignore it because you refuse to go outside the brainwash you've been suggested to.


The irony.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 6, 2022)

Rabbid4240 said:


> let's just say the worst part about having covid is not being able to taste chocolate


Literally losing my taste was the most upsetting part. It took way too long for the sense sweet to become normal again.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Insightful reply. Really. You truly attempted to refute my points and not just try to respond with anything as if you don't have an argument or anything. It's not like you want to see the truth and just purposely ignore it because you refuse to go outside the brainwash you've been suggested to. Here's an idea. if you can't read all of that, get your wife's boyfriend to help you read it.


You’ve not provided anything other than conspiracies and your misinterpretation of articles. I am not going to spend more than a few seconds skimming any wall of text you post because I know it’s just going to be laced with sarcasm, insults, and conspiracies. I am sorry you feel the need to be rude to people, hopefully one day you will realize not everyone is your enemy nor do they want to be.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 6, 2022)

KingVamp said:


> The irony.


Looked in a mirror lately? I really do think you need some sort of self reflection.



The Catboy said:


> Literally losing my taste was the most upsetting part. It took way too long for the sense sweet to become normal again.
> 
> You’ve not provided anything other than conspiracies and your misinterpretation of articles. I am not going to spend more than a few seconds skimming any wall of text you post because I know it’s just going to be laced with sarcasm, insults, and conspiracies. I am sorry you feel the need to be rude to people, hopefully one day you will realize not everyone is your enemy nor do they want to be.


Because you don't simply don't have an argument  We're not gonna convince each other of anything, that's clear enough. You'd rather believe in actual lies and misinformation you've been told and try to tell me I believe in, when the actual science is out there being suppressed, but you and many others have been conditioned not to listen to. And I don't think everyone's my enemy, just the stupid and selfish ones who want to drag the rest of us down and refuse to change.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 6, 2022)

Rabbid4240 said:


> let's just say the worst part about having covid is not being able to taste chocolate


We weren't very sick when we had COVID-19 in January of last year, but to celebrate feeling better, my SO and I got Chinese food. I was extremely disappointed to find I couldn't taste it at all, and it was probably the worse part.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 6, 2022)

I got covid about 100 times, minus 100.


----------



## Lather (Feb 6, 2022)

Have no idea, when Im die, I will die.
If the vaccinated against can't 100% protect me, well still have chance to get covid-19 and die.


----------



## SG854 (Feb 6, 2022)

Lather said:


> Have no idea, when Im die, I will die.
> If the vaccinated against can't 100% protect me, well still have chance to die.


I don't like looking both ways when I cross the street because you never know when someone will be driving fast not paying attention. Being safe is not 100% safe, I still have a chance to die


----------



## smf (Feb 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> So you're ok with your overlords not leading my example and just hypocritically doing whatever they want and to impose laws on you and the plebes? Ok, if that makes you happy, but not everyone wants that and think it's fair. You can be a sheep if you like while others fight for freedom and fairness.


No, I'm not happy with that. But it's not binary.

The sheep are those who follow the conspiracy theories. Being upset with things you have evidence for is different.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 6, 2022)

smf said:


> No, I'm not happy with that. But it's not binary.
> 
> The sheep are those who follow the conspiracy theories. Being upset with things you have evidence for is different.


It's not "binary"? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Also, it's not so much conspiracy theories when it literally unfold before your very eyes, but why believe your lying eyes anyways?


----------



## smf (Feb 6, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> It's not "binary"? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Also, it's not so much conspiracy theories when it literally unfold before your very eyes, but why believe your lying eyes anyways?


It's not binary means that you don't have to choose between two view points. So you can't say that just because I disagree with you, that you can make up what you think I agree with. Reality is way more complicated than your simplistic reductions.

If you have been banging on about conspiracies and then reality unfolds, then it doesn't justify all the crazy claims you made without evidence.

In the UK the sheep are the anti vaxers, anti lockdown people etc. The government in the UK are appeasing them and the UK government fought hard against bringing in restrictions, vaccines, masks etc in the first place. They only did so, when reality handed them their arse.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 6, 2022)

smf said:


> It's not binary means that you don't have to choose between two view points. So you can't say that just because I disagree with you, that you can make up what you think I agree with. Reality is way more complicated than your simplistic reductions.


Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, and you seem to agree but rather still be thick and stupid about certain views you hold. And don't talk to me like you know how reality works more than I do, because I can tell you right now, you don't.


smf said:


> If you have been banging on about conspiracies and then reality unfolds, then it doesn't justify all the crazy claims you made without evidence.


So, even if what you claim are "conspiracy theories" come true and that the people were right all along with the evidence, they still aren't right because you deem them conspiracy theorists? Nice logic there.


smf said:


> In the UK the sheep are the anti vaxers, anti lockdown people etc. The government in the UK are appeasing them and the UK government fought hard against bringing in restrictions, vaccines, masks etc in the first place. They only did so, when reality handed them their arse.


Uh huh, because if they didn't find out Boris Johnson was a huge ass hypocrite, they would've continue to impose non-working lock downs the non-sheep people and the sheep who fight for freedom and want to live their life are just nutjobs not to be listened to. The logic you put out is flawless my boy.


----------



## KimKong (Feb 6, 2022)

Yeah, I just had it about a week ago... fun stuff...


----------



## Lather (Feb 7, 2022)

SG854 said:


> I don't like looking both ways when I cross the street because you never know when someone will be driving fast not paying attention. Being safe is not 100% safe, I still have a chance to die


The analogy is inappropriate, but I'm sure you've done your best.
The virus is changing all the time, and you need to keep getting new and time untested vaccines that don't give you 100% immunity, and you're not even sure how it will affect your body in the future.


----------



## smf (Feb 7, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, and you seem to agree but rather still be thick and stupid about certain views you hold. And don't talk to me like you know how reality works more than I do, because I can tell you right now, you don't.


Clearly I do. You angrily posting on gbatemp when it will make no difference is a good example.



BitMasterPlus said:


> So, even if what you claim are "conspiracy theories" come true and that the people were right all along with the evidence, they still aren't right because you deem them conspiracy theorists? Nice logic there.


A stopped clock is right twice a day.

I don't actually think any of your conspiracy theories have come true. You're just overreaching that because Boris Johnson is a liar, that anything you imagine he lied about is true. That isn't how it works, only a sheep would come to such a simple conclusion.

A conspiracy theory isn't something that I claim, it's a particular thing. So if you believe all the governments in the world are vaccinating people as a way of reducing the population and you have no evidence & it's just an opinion that you pulled out of the air. You are still a moron if years later there is evidence of it happening. Otherwise you could just sit there constantly making random claims and making a big deal out of it when they come true (some crooks actually do this for money).

Similarly if you lie, but were wrong and inadvertently told the truth then you were still lying.

Do you have enough of a grasp on reality to understand that?


Lather said:


> The analogy is inappropriate, but I'm sure you've done your best.
> The virus is changing all the time, and you need to keep getting new and untested vaccines that don't give you 100% immunity, and you're not even sure how it will affect your body in the future.


The vaccines are tested. You can't pretend they aren't to justify your position.
Very few vaccines ever give you 100% immunity. The vaccines don't stay in your body, so what effect do you imagine they could have?

A better analogy is not looking both ways before crossing traffic because it's sunny and you're scared that opening your eyes will cause your retinas to burn &  even if they don't burn out immediately then you don't know what the long term effect of opening your eyes is.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 7, 2022)

smf said:


> Clearly I do. You angrily posting on gbatemp when it will make no difference is a good example.


You mean like you and a dozen others do on a daily basis here?


smf said:


> A stopped clock is right twice a day.
> 
> I don't actually think any of your conspiracy theories have come true. You're just overreaching that because Boris Johnson is a liar, that anything you imagine he lied about is true. That isn't how it works, only a sheep would come to such a simple conclusion.
> 
> ...


Yes I do, and I can see you're still not the sharpest tool in the shed. All the facts and science people love so much showed how the "vaccines" and all these restrictions and mandates won't be the end all of the virus and people still are either too ignorant to notice or too stubborn to admit they're wrong. You just put a lot of words to say, "nOpE I sTiLl rIgHt U wRoNg!"


----------



## Lather (Feb 9, 2022)

smf said:


> Clearly I do. You angrily posting on gbatemp when it will make no difference is a good example.
> 
> 
> A stopped clock is right twice a day.
> ...


I mean the time tested. My bad.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 9, 2022)

Lather said:


> Have no idea, when Im die, I will die.
> If the vaccinated against can't 100% protect me, well still have chance to get covid-19 and die.


You should really find yourself at peace with dying in a less severely painful way. Vaccines are still proven to be effective at lessen the severity of Covid and increases your survival rate drastically.


BitMasterPlus said:


> Because you don't simply don't have an argument  We're not gonna convince each other of anything, that's clear enough. You'd rather believe in actual lies and misinformation you've been told and try to tell me I believe in, when the actual science is out there being suppressed, but you and many others have been conditioned not to listen to. And I don't think everyone's my enemy, just the stupid and selfish ones who want to drag the rest of us down and refuse to change.


Dude, my sources aren’t the ones linked to a far-right conspiracy cult in China, I think I’ve long won whatever arguments you are bringing. If you have actual science, then provide it because haven’t. You’ve only provided cult links and misquotes, then pretend people dismissing your garbage is proof of superiority.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 9, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Dude, my sources aren’t the ones linked to a far-right conspiracy cult in China, I think I’ve long won whatever arguments you are bringing. If you have actual science, then provide it because haven’t. You’ve only provided cult links and misquotes, then pretend people dismissing your garbage is proof of superiority.


Oh look, more projecting, never seen that before. Try again.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh look, more projecting, never seen that before. Try again.


oh ok.... Then you are more then welcomed to Provide ACTUALLY LINKS to Creditable Source that have
1.) Creditible sources ( link or completely listed, No screen shots or unsourced comments, or random youtube/rumble videos from random people)
2.) not already Laughed at and Destroyed by the Medical Community

Please thats all we are waiting for! I'll wait


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Oh look, more projecting, never seen that before. Try again.


Saying "no u" doesn't make me wrong. You've literally provided the Epoch Times, which is directly connected to a Chinese conspiracy cult. You've also posted sources where you either left out details or misquoted the source. These are things you've literally done.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 9, 2022)

djpannda said:


> oh ok.... Then you are more then welcomed to Provide ACTUALLY LINKS to Creditable Source that have
> 1.) Creditible sources ( link or completely listed, No screen shots or unsourced comments, or random youtube/rumble videos from random people)
> 2.) not already Laughed at and Destroyed by the Medical Community
> 
> Please thats all we are waiting for! I'll wait


I could ask the same because the "credible sciences" you believe in are clear bullshit.



The Catboy said:


> Saying "no u" doesn't make me wrong. You've literally provided the Epoch Times, which is directly connected to a Chinese conspiracy cult. You've also posted sources where you either left out details or misquoted the source. These are things you've literally done.


And the mainstream media you believe in constantly lies to the people and may as well be controlled by the chinese communist party, either way they're trying to divide and destroy the country, and unfortunately succeeding. It's obvious at this point we're not gonna convince each other anyhow.


----------



## appleburger (Feb 9, 2022)

Are we _really_ going to make this yet another shit-fest thread trying to "debate" how airborn viruses and vaccines work?  Can you guys please just stick to the topic of whether or not you've caught it before?


----------



## djpannda (Feb 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I could ask the same because the "credible sciences" you believe in are clear bullshit.


.WoW what a suprise !!..I see you couldn't provided any links or sources that supports your Reptilian/Mircochip  Theory ..

lol I love the fact that these "fake antivaxxers" are not able to argue any of their points when Ask to provide ACTUALLY INFO instead of Facebook screenshots

I say "Fake Antivaxxers" because 99% have received 7-9 different vaccines in your life without a 2nd thought but all of sudden COVID Vaccine is the DEVILS Blood...  maybe the fact that 99% of them are ...lets  say.... "RED" and feeling salty after 2020 its the actually reason for their discourse rather then the Life saving Vaccine


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Feb 9, 2022)

appleburger said:


> Are we _really_ going to make this yet another shit-fest thread trying to "debate" how airborn viruses and vaccines work?


To combat against misinformation and conspiracy? Yes.


----------



## appleburger (Feb 9, 2022)

LinkmstrYT said:


> To combat against misinformation and conspiracy? Yes.


You're missing the point.  There's another massive thread with literally the same users posting about it; you're far better off continuing the discussion there rather than hijacking this thread and repeating all the same stuff.

And for the record, I'm in your camp - I already made my piece there and fought these retards for days before I burned out.  I just don't want to see it take over multiple threads like this.


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Feb 9, 2022)

appleburger said:


> You're missing the point.  There's another massive thread with literally the same users posting about it; you're far better off continuing the discussion there rather than hijacking this thread and repeating all the same stuff.
> 
> And for the record, I'm in your camp - I already made my piece there and fought these retards for days before I burned out.  I just don't want to see it take over multiple threads like this.


I understand what you mean. It's just that we can't just let them freely spread misinformation and conspiracy theories on other threads and leave them there.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 9, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I could ask the same because the "credible sciences" you believe in are clear bullshit.
> 
> 
> And the mainstream media you believe in constantly lies to the people and may as well be controlled by the chinese communist party, either way they're trying to divide and destroy the country, and unfortunately succeeding. It's obvious at this point we're not gonna convince each other anyhow.


It's a good thing I look for creditable sources from experts that have then been verified through the peer-review process. I don't get my vaccine information from the "mainstream media," I look for the sources and I get the information directly from them. When I find an article, I look for the credentials and then I research into the article's claims and the media outlet. When I find the sources, I refer to those over the article and only present the article if it sticks to the information provided by its sources. Simply put, I actually understand how scientific research is supposed to be conducted. If an article or site is tethered to questionable sources and makes questionable claims that can't be verified or are obviously misquotes, then the site can be discarded. I've said it before, I am not trying to convince you. I am hoping to convince others to stop believing the kinds of misinformation that you and others like you have been spreading.


----------



## Jayro (Feb 9, 2022)

Two years in, and I've yet to contract COVID. Vaxxed and boosted.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 9, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Two years in, and I've yet to contract COVID. Vaxxed and boosted.


Lucky~ keep that up, Covid isn't fun!


----------



## Jayro (Feb 9, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Lucky~ keep that up, Covid isn't fun!


It helps that I rarely leave my apartment, aside from work.


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 9, 2022)

Jayro said:


> It helps that I rarely leave my apartment, aside from work.


I got it from my family. I haven't been out since 2016.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 10, 2022)

Jayro said:


> It helps that I rarely leave my apartment, aside from work.


I also rarely leave and caught Delta. Sometimes it’s just small mistakes or overlooks that cause something to happen


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 10, 2022)

djpannda said:


> .WoW what a suprise !!..I see you couldn't provided any links or sources that supports your Reptilian/Mircochip  Theory ..
> 
> lol I love the fact that these "fake antivaxxers" are not able to argue any of their points when Ask to provide ACTUALLY INFO instead of Facebook screenshots
> 
> I say "Fake Antivaxxers" because 99% have received 7-9 different vaccines in your life without a 2nd thought but all of sudden COVID Vaccine is the DEVILS Blood...  maybe the fact that 99% of them are ...lets  say.... "RED" and feeling salty after 2020 its the actually reason for their discourse rather then the Life saving Vaccine


I've posted my sources before and found out it's a gigantic waste of time to people who are the likes of you, so cry more for all I care. I'm not the one who's gonna be the giant fucking idiot in the end anyway.


The Catboy said:


> It's a good thing I look for creditable sources from experts that have then been verified through the peer-review process. I don't get my vaccine information from the "mainstream media," I look for the sources and I get the information directly from them. When I find an article, I look for the credentials and then I research into the article's claims and the media outlet. When I find the sources, I refer to those over the article and only present the article if it sticks to the information provided by its sources. Simply put, I actually understand how scientific research is supposed to be conducted. If an article or site is tethered to questionable sources and makes questionable claims that can't be verified or are obviously misquotes, then the site can be discarded. I've said it before, I am not trying to convince you. I am hoping to convince others to stop believing the kinds of misinformation that you and others like you have been spreading.


Oh yeah, I found out where your "credible sources" come from and I gotta say, sure beats where I get my information from:





That'll sure convince others to your side more.


----------



## RichardTheKing (Feb 10, 2022)

No, but my dad has, last Christmas.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I've posted my sources before and found out it's a gigantic waste of time to people who are the likes of you, so cry more for all I care. I'm not the one who's gonna be the giant fucking idiot in the end anyway.


You sure are wiggling around and not making eye contact when saying that lol
....notice how  the avoidance of any mention of Other vaccines and the quick distraction of a childish insult follows ..... almost like they are uncomfortable talking about it because of the easy nature of hypocrisy they fear .
Again ....


djpannda said:


> .WoW what a suprise !!..I see you couldn't provided any links or sources that supports your Reptilian/Mircochip  Theory ..
> 
> lol I love the fact that these "fake antivaxxers" are not able to argue any of their points when Ask to provide ACTUALLY INFO instead of Facebook screenshots
> 
> I say "Fake Antivaxxers" because 99% have received 7-9 different vaccines in your life without a 2nd thought but all of sudden COVID Vaccine is the DEVILS Blood...  maybe the fact that 99% of them are ...lets  say.... "RED" and feeling salty after 2020 its the actually reason for their discourse rather then the Life saving Vaccine


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 10, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I've posted my sources before and found out it's a gigantic waste of time to people who are the likes of you, so cry more for all I care. I'm not the one who's gonna be the giant fucking idiot in the end anyway.
> 
> Oh yeah, I found out where your "credible sources" come from and I gotta say, sure beats where I get my information from:
> That'll sure convince others to your side more.


It’s a waste of time because of the previous statements I’ve already made in regards to the links you’ve posted. You’ve only posted conspiracies and misquote, then expect people to take them seriously and get mad when they don’t. Have you considered that maybe it’s your approach that’s a problem? That maybe people would be less dismissive if you took time to listen to the points they are bringing up? Have you considered maybe your treatment of others has caused all of this?


----------



## tabzer (Feb 11, 2022)

djpannda said:


> 1.) Creditible sources ( link or completely listed, No screen shots or unsourced comments, or random youtube/rumble videos from random people)
> 2.) not already Laughed at and Destroyed by the Medical Community


This is an outdated and an illiterate request.  It is already apparent to everybody, anywhere, that the "conversation" is inorganically stifled.  You want Pfizer sponsored news media to tell you bad things about Pfizer?  Is this Stockholm's syndrome or is this you really looking for a way out?


----------



## djpannda (Feb 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> This is an outdated and an illiterate request.  It is already apparent to everybody, anywhere, that the "conversation" is inorganically stifled.  You want Pfizer sponsored news media to tell you bad things about Pfizer?  Is this Stockholm's syndrome or is this you really looking for a way out?


 and here come Tazber for the win… oh wait I don’t think a  YouTube video from a “ex” paranoid junkie is on the same level of a Virologist … or ANY DR.. 

man  the troll must be hard to find if your not even goin to show video of a quack “ fake” dr and go straight to comedian.
1. random youtube/rumble videos from random people)
2.) not already Laughed at and Destroyed by the Medical Community


----------



## kehkou (Feb 11, 2022)

I put "no" because I only got the symptoms from the shot for a day as my system acclimated to it. Knocked me on my ass though!


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 11, 2022)

kehkou said:


> I put "no" because I only got the symptoms from the shot for a day as my system acclimated to it. Knocked me on my ass though!


nice!


----------



## tabzer (Feb 11, 2022)

djpannda said:


> and here come Tazber for the win… oh wait I don’t think a  YouTube video from a “ex” paranoid junkie is on the same level of a Virologist … or ANY DR..
> 
> man  the troll must be hard to find if your not even goin to show video of a quack “ fake” dr and go straight to comedian.
> 1. random youtube/rumble videos from random people)
> 2.) not already Laughed at and Destroyed by the Medical Community


If crack is a language... it's not so interesting.


----------



## gamesquest1 (Feb 11, 2022)

definitely had it once, but I think I got it much earlier on to around December 2019 before it was even known about, I was very tired for about 3 days where I just slept woke ate and went back to sleep, then I was back to normal, then I got it again (or for the first time, but this time tests existed, and it came back positive) about 3 months ago, was just tired again for a day or so, then back to normal again


----------



## JuanBaNaNa (Feb 11, 2022)

gamesquest1 said:


> definitely had it once, but I think I got it much earlier on to around December 2019 before it was even known about, I was very tired for about 3 days where I just slept woke ate and went back to sleep, then I was back to normal, then I got it again (or for the first time, but this time tests existed, and it came back positive) about 3 months ago, was just tired again for a day or so, then back to normal again


@WiiMiiSwitch  has been looking for you for the past 8+ months.


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 11, 2022)

Probably, my kid brings shit home all the time, including 3 times in the first 2 months of this school year. I caught one of those and have otherwise been sick one or two other times in the past 2 years, but nobody in our household ever took any COVID tests, so who knows?


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 11, 2022)

tabzer said:


> This is an outdated and an illiterate request.  It is already apparent to everybody, anywhere, that the "conversation" is inorganically stifled.  You want Pfizer sponsored news media to tell you bad things about Pfizer?  Is this Stockholm's syndrome or is this you really looking for a way out?



So asking for creditable sources is outdated?


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> So asking for creditable sources is outdated?



You can't ask for "creditable" sources then limit who can report on it without being a contradiction.  I literally gave him an example of creditable news and he shot it down based on the reporter being having been an actor.  If you don't see the problem then you maybe you are a piece of shit?


----------



## 0x3000027E (Feb 12, 2022)

Once the discussion devolves into a debate over who has the most credible sources, the conversation is over. Time to close the thread.


----------



## Asia81 (Feb 12, 2022)

No, but I wish I had.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

Asia81 said:


> No, but I wish I had.


Why do you wish you had gotten COVID-19?


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 12, 2022)

Asia81 said:


> No, but I wish I had.


I actually know this feel or at least have an experience I share. Last year my wife and I got the flu and it was awful, one of the worst either of us ever had. We thought it was Covid because of how bad it was. It wasn’t Covid though, which would have been fine but we ended up missing several weeks of work that went unpaid and we had to fight tooth and nail to keep our jobs. If we had gotten Covid, that suffering would have been paid for and covered, so yeah.


tabzer said:


> You can't ask for "creditable" sources then limit who can report on it without being a contradiction.  I literally gave him an example of creditable news and he shot it down based on the reporter being having been an actor.  If you don't see the problem then you maybe you are a piece of shit?


You don’t even provide sources 98% of the time and then misquote the few that you do post


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> You don’t even provide sources 98% of the time and then misquote the few that you do post



Even if that were to be true, it's not even relevant to the point.  If you have a problem with something I said, you are free to address it.

If you want to dismiss information on the basis that you are tired of people disagreeing with you, then you are not being rational.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 12, 2022)

I find it weird that Russell Brand, who is basically a socialist, is not an acceptable voice to the American left. Anyone who is dismissing him based on his past is doing themselves a disservice as he is currently one of the best comedic  journalists around.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Even if that were to be true, it's not even relevant to the point.


Nah dude, that’s literally always been the point. You will go on for pages with out posting a single link and even act like you did. During the rare moments you do post a link, you either misquote or ignore details in the link that counter the point you are trying to make. You’ve been doing this kind of shit for a long time now. Although, at least you appear to have stopped editing people’s original posts when you reply to them or at least I’ve gotten better at ignoring that.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I find it weird that Russell Brand, who is basically a socialist, is not an acceptable voice to the American left. Anyone who is dismissing him based on his past is doing themselves a disservice as he is currently one of the best comedic  journalists around.



It's bizarre.  But don't think about it too much.  Just listen to the crack panda guy on gbatemp telling you it's not as creditable because it's on YouTube.  The irony is stupifying.



The Catboy said:


> Nah dude, that’s literally always been the point. You will go on for pages with out posting a single link and even act like you did. During the rare moments you do post a link, you either misquote or ignore details in the link that counter the point you are trying to make. You’ve been doing this kind of shit for a long time now. Although, at least you appear to have stopped editing people’s original posts when you reply to them or at least I’ve gotten better at ignoring that.



If you want to address the substance of an argument, it would do you better to address the argument rather than turn try to make me feel ashamed for having an opinion.  When I tell you what I believe and what I think, it doesn't always need to be sourced because I'm not trying to tell you what you should think.  I'm saying what I think.  If you want to attack my character instead of addressing specific things that you desire a source for, that's just you being a dick.  If you want to make claims that the vaccine is safe and effective without including the 100s of pages of subtext that qualifies the claim in its specific constraints, I'd be inclined to think you are marketing as opposed to presenting "the science".

In my country, there is more evidence that I will be more likely to suffer if I join the infinite vaccine protocol than if I were to not.  I'm sorry, but not sorry, that your statistics don't translate well over here.  I won't accept someone telling me that my chances of dying are many times greater if I don't get vaccinated when it simply isn't true.  Some idiot playing doctor on gbatemp should be held accountable for his shitty and unsolicited medical "advice".


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I won't accept someone telling me that my chances of dying are many times greater if I don't get vaccinated when it simply isn't true.


Yes it is.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Yes it is.


I don't believe people who are willing to lie.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I don't believe people who are willing to lie.


I am not lying. People vaccinated against COVID-19 are significantly less likely to die than their unvaccinated counterparts.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I am not lying. People vaccinated against COVID-19 are significantly less likely to die than their unvaccinated counterparts.


That's another lie.  Not only does it fail to consider my actual circumstances, but it is an intentional redirect to an intangible claim that cannot be verified or disproven.  You are reliably sneaky and a creep.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> That's another lie.


First, if I were wrong (I'm verifiably not wrong), that wouldn't make it a lie. It would make me wrong.



tabzer said:


> Not only does it fail to consider my actual circumstances


I've said numerous times that people with medical conditions that preclude them from being able to get vaccinated should obviously not get vaccinated. However, anyone who can medically get vaccinated is significantly less likely to die if they get vaccinated vs. if they don't.



tabzer said:


> but it is an intentional redirect to an intangible claim that cannot be verified or disproven.


This is a quantifiable claim dealing with objective metrics that can be verified and proven, lol.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

@scroeffie1984

This isn't an image board.
There's no evidence he said this specifically.
Other things he has said without evidence relating to COVID-19 have been discredited.
There's no evidence that any dose of the COVID-19 vaccine can/will cause a positive HIV test.
Edit: Also, it was reported a few days ago that he died. I have no idea what caused his death, but at his age, he would have been particularly susceptible to COVID-19 if he wasn't vaccinated.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

Lacius said:


> First, if I were wrong (I'm verifiably not wrong), that wouldn't make it a lie. It would make me wrong.
> 
> 
> I've said numerous times that people with medical conditions that preclude them from being able to get vaccinated should obviously not get vaccinated. However, anyone who can medically get vaccinated is significantly less likely to die if they get vaccinated vs. if they don't.
> ...



I didn't question if you were wrong, I said that you were lying.  Which maybe we agree is wrong.

You've said numerous contradictory statements that I would rather forgo trying to understand the intention behind your avatar and just work with what is actually said.  There's distinct relativity and context to each statement you make, and who you make it to, and in response to what.

You tell me, all the time, that I am more likely to die if I don't get vaccinated, even after the point has been made that you don't know anything about my circumstances.  Then, when you get called out like this, you bring up broad-spectrum statistics that apply to your own country based on your own statistics which are as reliable as what, your government?  Your healthcare system?  Your media?  Pick any.

"Significant" is a relative term, asshole.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> You've said numerous contradictory statements


No I haven't.



tabzer said:


> You tell me, all the time, that I am more likely to die if I don't get vaccinated, even after the point has been made that you don't know anything about my circumstances.


If one is medically able to wear a seatbelt while in a moving automobile, they are significantly less likely to die if they wear a seatbelt in a moving automobile. If one is medically able to get the vaccine, they are significantly less likely to die if they get the vaccine. These are verifiable quantitative facts.



tabzer said:


> Then, when you get called out like this, you bring up broad-spectrum statistics that apply to your own country based on your own statistics which are as reliable as what, your government?  Your healthcare system?  Your media?  Pick any.


The science behind vaccine safety and efficacy is far from limited to "my own country."

You almost certainly know better, so it doesn't look like I'm the one being misleading on purpose.



tabzer said:


> "Significant" is a relative term, asshole.


Sure, but "more likely" and "many times more likely" are not. I think I've said these things enough times for you to know what I mean when I say "significant."


----------



## tabzer (Feb 12, 2022)

Lacius said:


> No I haven't.



Yes, you have.  



Lacius said:


> If one is medically able to wear a seatbelt while in a moving automobile, they are significantly less likely to die if they wear a seatbelt in a moving automobile. If one is medically able to get the vaccine, they are significantly less likely to die if they get the vaccine.



Again, in Japan, the people who are most likely to die from automobile accidents are the people who wouldn't be protected from seatbelts.

This is a false-equivalence which cannot be agreed on in premise, so there is no point in pretending beyond that.


Lacius said:


> The science behind vaccine safety and efficacy is far from limited to "my own country."



My stats disagree with your stats.  I have shown that, and you pretended that you had contradictory measurements and have not provided.



Lacius said:


> Sure, but "more likely" and "many times more likely" are not. I think I've said these things enough times for you to know what I mean when I say "significant."



Then there is no reason to shift the language used.  You are constantly moving the claim to encompass people you have no idea about.


----------



## stanleyopar2000 (Feb 12, 2022)

I think I had it in late 2019....I was off for days and felt sick...coincidently more than half of everyone in my office had this "flu" and were out as well....a few months later our government announced that COVID exists (not after they profited from stock trading)


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> and you pretended that you had contradictory measurements and have not provided.


It's laughably disingenuous to suggest numerous scientific studies from reputable sources haven't been provided by myself and others.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 12, 2022)

tabzer said:


> I don't believe people who are willing to lie.


I am sorry reality is a lie to you. In reality, those unvaccinated have a higher risk of dying or suffering long-term side effects from Covid. This is a fact, this is reality that is backed up by actual science. Saying to don’t want to believe that or accept that doesn’t mean shit to reality. I would like to see actual evidence that I am wrong and some word salad isn’t evidence.


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 12, 2022)

Lacius said:


> The science behind vaccine safety and efficacy is far from limited to "my own country."


Both Pfizer and Moderna intentionally vaccinated their control groups, so that data is now invalidated. Now Pfizer is fighting against having any more "unfavorable" safety data released that might hurt their business. 

I guess this must be the difference between "the science" and regular science? You've made an irreversible health decision based on flawed short term marketing data and will now be lucky to live another decade.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 12, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Both Pfizer and Moderna intentionally vaccinated their control groups


What are you talking about?


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 12, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Both Pfizer and Moderna intentionally vaccinated their control groups, so that data is now invalidated.



Are you talking about this ?

The people in the placebo group decided to take the vaccine when available and therefore weren't eligible to remain in the ongoing study.. as much as I hate to defend them that's not the same as Pfizer and Moderna deliberately invalidating the control group.


----------



## DarkCoffe64 (Feb 13, 2022)

Having it right now... Apart the first two days which I felt a lil funny, right now it's just a plugged nose and sore throat.
I've been worse tbh.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 13, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Both Pfizer and Moderna intentionally vaccinated their control groups, so that data is now invalidated. Now Pfizer is fighting against having any more "unfavorable" safety data released that might hurt their business.
> 
> I guess this must be the difference between "the science" and regular science? You've made an irreversible health decision based on flawed short term marketing data and will now be lucky to live another decade.


What are you on about?


----------



## Lacius (Feb 13, 2022)

DarkCoffe64 said:


> Having it right now... Apart the first two days which I felt a lil funny, right now it's just a plugged nose and sore throat.
> I've been worse tbh.


I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 13, 2022)

Lacius said:


> It's laughably disingenuous to suggest numerous scientific studies from reputable sources haven't been provided by myself and others.



Your institutions are far from reputable.  They are broken and not deserving of trust. Considering America has the worst reporting, I have no reason to think that you are capable of telling the truth or providing a solution.



The Catboy said:


> I am sorry reality is a lie to you.



Haha, go outside.  Oh right, you can't.  



The Catboy said:


> I am sorry reality is a lie to you. In reality, those unvaccinated have a higher risk of dying or suffering long-term side effects from Covid. This is a fact, this is reality that is backed up by actual science.



That's a statistic established on the American condition, based on the idea that you definitely will get the worst variant of Covid, or shot by a gun, and it's fucking stupid.  



The Catboy said:


> I would like to see actual evidence that I am wrong and some word salad isn’t evidence.



Anyone can look up the deathrates in Japan.  Suicide is a greater risk by a factor of 2.  Watch out.  You are twice as likely to kill yourself than to die of Covid.  Don't do it!

I also provided the study behind the numbers reflecting increased injury related to the vaccine in Japan.  If you want to pretend that never happened, good for you.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Your institutions are far from reputable.  They are broken and not deserving of trust. Considering America has the worst reporting, I have no reason to think that you are capable of telling the truth or providing a solution.


The science is peer-reviewed and replicable. And, as you ignored, it isn't even close to limited to my country.



tabzer said:


> Haha, go outside.  Oh right, you can't.


Outside is the best place you can be to reduce the risk of transmission, you idiot.


----------



## DarkCoffe64 (Feb 13, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I hope you feel better soon.


Thank you.
Grew up with all sorts of illenesses and other crap, suppose I should have more than enough antibodies to kill this virus off or something, heh.


----------



## lolcatzuru (Feb 13, 2022)

yes, i went out of my way to get it because of the junk science that implied natural immunity would be helpful, somehow i made it without the magic needle.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 13, 2022)

lolcatzuru said:


> yes, i went out of my way to get it because of the junk science that implied natural immunity would be helpful, somehow i made it without the magic needle.


Intentionally contracting COVID-19 is very much not recommended. Compared to the vaccine, contracting COVID-19 carries far worse and far more likely risks, not to mention that you're likely to spread the disease to other people if you contract it.

The safest and most effective way to reduce the spread of COVID-19 and avoid long-term and/or serious illness is to get vaccinated.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Your institutions are far from reputable.  They are broken and not deserving of trust. Considering America has the worst reporting, I have no reason to think that you are capable of telling the truth or providing a solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s a good thing that it’s not just the US reporting the same results but of course you are just going to ignore those. You’ve been clinging to one article that doesn’t even confirm anything. Within the article itself it doesn’t confirm the deaths linked to the vaccines, but does show all of the deaths were links to preexisting conditions.
As for your jab at my health, I can go outside and take regular walks, hikes, and enjoy life with my wife. My limitations are mostly areas where I potentially risk being exposed to infections, such as overcrowded stores, concerts, and other gatherings. Which I actively avoid to the best of my ability. Me not regularly leaving my home is a choice that’s mostly due to avoiding the weather when it’s too extreme for me to enjoy.


----------



## EatsCookies (Feb 13, 2022)

I have had Covid twice. Once in 2020, once in 2021. Decent flu lasted over a week.  
COVID is a govnt scam. Give your freedoms and take the jab you Taxx Cattle.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 13, 2022)

EatsCookies said:


> I have had Covid twice. Once in 2020, once in 2021. Decent flu lasted over a week.
> COVID is a govnt scam. Give your freedoms and take the jab you Taxx Cattle.


On average, more than 2,400 Americans are dying from COVID-19 everyday, and approximately 90% of them are unvaccinated.


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Feb 13, 2022)

Lacius said:


> On average, more than 2,400 Americans are dying from COVID-19 everyday, and approximately 90% of them are unvaccinated.


And at the same time, more and more families breaking apart and children losing their parents to COVID and potentially becoming orphaned.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> As for your jab at my health,



It's not a jab at your health.  It's a jab at how you live and how your lifestyle is incompatible with even being able to relate to my life.  Your use of statistics don't even apply to reality.  They assume that the alternative to taking the vaccine is getting the worst strain of Covid and it isn't even real. 

As for my reference, I posted a study that revealed greater illnesses coming from vaccinated people than what is expected of the public in general.


----------



## Lacius (Feb 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Your use of statistics don't even apply to reality.  They assume that the alternative to taking the vaccine is getting the worst strain of Covid


You're many times less likely to die if you get the vaccine. This assumes you're medically able to get the vaccine, but the assumptions stop there.

Getting the vaccine makes it significantly less likely you will contract the disease and spread it to other people. This alone should be reason enough for people who aren't assholes to get vaccinated if they're medically able to do so.

Getting the vaccine makes it significantly less likely you will suffer serious illness or death if you end up contracting COVID-19. This is true regardless of your age and other health conditions, assuming they don't preclude you from getting the vaccine in the first place.

Getting the vaccine makes it significantly less likely you will suffer long-term effects from COVID-19 if you end up contracting it, regardless of your age, your health, and the severity of your illness.



tabzer said:


> and it isn't even real.


It isn't completely clear what you're suggesting here, but COVID-19 exists, COVID-19 variants exist, and approximately 11,000 people globally continue to die from COVID-19 everyday. About 90% of them are unvaccinated.



tabzer said:


> As for my reference, I posted a study that revealed greater illnesses coming from vaccinated people than what is expected of the public in general.


You posted an article that isn't reputable. It makes unsubstantiated claims (among others) about the vaccine causing suicides, it appears to cherry-pick data with small sample sizes, it isn't a controlled study, it isn't peer-reviewed, it contradicts nearly all reputable research from all over the world, and I can't even check the Japanese language primary sources to see if the data is even correct.

When you cherry-pick one disreputable article that supports your point of view, and you ignore the mountain of reputable research that contradicts it, you should probably ask yourself if your biases are clouding your judgement. Even if your article had been reputable (it wasn't), you would have still needed to ask yourself why <1% of reputable sources said one thing, and why >99% of reputable sources said another thing.

I find it hilarious that you keep irrelevantly yelling "but your country" in response to my points about scientific data, as though the research I'm talking about isn't global, but you're the only one here cherry-picking one bad source from one place.


----------



## DinohScene (Feb 13, 2022)

Still haven't had COVID.

Then again I avoid contact with humans in general :')


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 13, 2022)

tabzer said:


> It's not a jab at your health.  It's a jab at how you live and how your lifestyle is incompatible with even being able to relate to my life.  Your use of statistics don't even apply to reality.  They assume that the alternative to taking the vaccine is getting the worst strain of Covid and it isn't even real.
> 
> As for my reference, I posted a study that revealed greater illnesses coming from vaccinated people than what is expected of the public in general.


Literally the post above this one you outright state it’s a jab at my health. As for the rest, that’s not at all what anyone is saying. What has been said, is that unvaccinated are getting worse symptoms of Covid and dying at a higher rate, which is proven and actual reality.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-status.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm
https://www.azdhs.gov/covid19/documents/data/rates-of-cov-19-by-vaccination.pdf?v=20220105
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status/
https://amp.statesman.com/amp/6511901001
https://time.com/6138566/pandemic-of-unvaccinated/?amp=true
You posted a study that doesn’t even confirm or line up with the point you were trying to make. Equally, one paper (that doesn’t even conflict with current studies,) does not debunk the countless research showing the harm of remaining unvaccinated nor counter the research showing the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. If you can only manage to find one paper, then you should start questioning why that’s the case.


----------



## deerfern (Feb 13, 2022)

Haven't had it yet... knock on wood I won't, ever. I've had both my shots, booster included. However, people in my family and friends, neighbors, have had it. Some deaths. Not a nice disease. Hope it's under control soon. With all the breakthroughs and research and development the various countries have, no doubt it will be. A race to be the first true vaccine!


----------



## tabzer (Feb 14, 2022)

Lacius said:


> I find it hilarious that you keep irrelevantly yelling "but your country" in response to my points about scientific data, as though the research I'm talking about isn't global, but you're the only one here cherry-picking one bad source from one place.



Lacius.  Calling my source bad because you don't like it is all that you are doing.  I've already stated my disagreement with you about your characterization of it, and its not peer reviewed because it's a data analysis.  In response to the numbers showing greater amounts of illness coming from the vaccinated than would be expected from the general public, you said you had contradictory data, and you still haven't provided it.

If you think someone living in Japan bares the same statistical risk as someone living amidst the epicenter of an outbreak, then you are clearly not operating on science or rationality.

I'm sorry that this is inconvenient for your argument, but you are an idiot.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 14, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lacius.  Calling my source bad because you don't like it is all that you are doing.


your source?    was a youtube video of a  "ex' Paranoid Junkie....Comedian ? How was that a Medical source...?


----------



## Lacius (Feb 14, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Lacius.  Calling my source bad because you don't like it is all that you are doing.


I listed very specific problems with your source, so this demonstrably isn't what I'm doing. Lol.



tabzer said:


> In response to the numbers showing greater amounts of illness coming from the vaccinated than would be expected from the general public, you said you had contradictory data, and you still haven't provided it.


Reputable sources have been provided by myself and others for months.



tabzer said:


> If you think someone living in Japan bares the same statistical risk as someone living amidst the epicenter of an outbreak, then you are clearly not operating on science or rationality.


A person who contracts COVID-19 is significantly more likely to suffer serious illness or death if they are unvaccinated, regardless of where they live or what the rate of COVID-19 transmission is in their specific area.



tabzer said:


> I'm sorry that this is inconvenient for your argument, but you are an idiot.


I'm not the one making baseless claims, making debunked claims, cherry-picking sources, or ignoring points.


----------



## Delerious (Feb 14, 2022)

I've not had COVID, nor have any of my family or friends. But I have coworkers whose family members have had it. One of the MAs I work with at the clinic lost his sister and his favorite nephew to it - both unvaccinated. I've never really been on the skeptic side of the vaccine itself, only of the companies that produce them. The sad truth is that as shitty as big pharma is, the vaccines are a necessity to prevent hospitalization - and even death.

People will still make their choice whether or not to get it. I'm not wholly against the idea of a vaccnine mandate, but I can also see the concern that comes with it, given the the working class's relationship with the government, and especially in the U.S where there have also been a lot of people who have been screwed over by our healthcare system. To that end, I put a large chunk of blame on our system on this side of the pond. Everyone in the media is always making the other side out to be the enemy, and our politicians don't seem to have the best interest of the people in mind. Not sure what it's like overseas. Perhaps some of the sentiment is the same in other parts of the world.


----------



## Captain Library (Feb 14, 2022)

I'm recovering from my 2nd bout of covid (originally got the virus in March 2020!). First time around was quite different; I had difficulty breathing - it was very dry but I had shuddering, rattling breaths. It didn't make me feel too sick overall and my partner had it worse than me. This time, it's been more like a bad cold - very goopy, a nasty sore throat at the start, and a persistent headache. Toward the end I've been very tired, and I've felt poorly for about 12 days (tested positive on day 2). I've had 2 jabs of Pfizer, and a Moderna booster shot in December.


----------



## scroeffie1984 (Feb 14, 2022)

all i want to say is ,i respect everybody who took the vaccine and is wearing a mask ! if you feal unsafe take the vaccine .
but i dont feel unsafe and iam healthy so i wont take anything and iam not wearing a mask from day 1 not !


----------



## Glyptofane (Feb 14, 2022)

Lacius said:


> What are you talking about?





The Catboy said:


> What are you on about?


Oh, just the fake, flawed studies on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies to get emergency approval for these clot shots in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you two are blissfully unaware of it?



subcon959 said:


> Are you talking about this ?
> 
> The people in the placebo group decided to take the vaccine when available and therefore weren't eligible to remain in the ongoing study.. as much as I hate to defend them that's not the same as Pfizer and Moderna deliberately invalidating the control group.


Yes, that's it. Revealing their vaccination status is invalidating the control group. The key point is "ongoing study", so it wasn't even over. Now there can be no long term data with this study.

"It's a loss from a scientific standpoint, but given the circumstances I think it's the right thing to do"

And there you have a perfect example of "the science", or rather an attempt to deflect something that absolutely is not science with some bullshit ethical stance.



scroeffie1984 said:


> all i want to say is ,i respect everybody who took the vaccine and is wearing a mask ! if you feal unsafe take the vaccine .
> but i dont feel unsafe and iam healthy so i wont take anything and iam not wearing a mask from day 1 not !


People are free to make their own decisions is my whole thing, even if it does nothing at best or gives them heart disease and AIDS as seems to be the case. It's sad, but what can you do?


----------



## Lacius (Feb 14, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Oh, just the fake, flawed studies on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies to get emergency approval for these clot shots in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you two are blissfully unaware of it?


Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


----------



## NewGBAXL (Feb 14, 2022)

I probably had it at some point


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 14, 2022)

Glyptofane said:


> Oh, just the fake, flawed studies on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies to get emergency approval for these clot shots in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you two are blissfully unaware of it?


And what of the studies not conducted by pharmaceutical companies? Those all fake too? What about the international studies? The studies conducted outside the US? What about the evidence that isn’t just US-centric? Also what about “clot-shots?” Do you have sources for that? It’s not that I am unaware, it’s that the research isn’t just done by a few companies and that the results have been replicated multiple times over by multiple companies in multiple other countries. With all the vaccinations given, the rate of harmful side-effects have been shown to be extremely low and often effecting people with preexisting conditions. Even mild side-effects are low and only last a few hours to a few days. If there was something truly harmful, it would be extremely hard to hide. Equally those “exposing” the harm have been and are easy to debunk. If anything I am saying is wrong, then properly dispute those statements with evidence.


----------



## lokomelo (Feb 14, 2022)

why nowadays everything corona related revolves around vaccine?

The shot is extremely important but there are tons of extra measures that need to be taken to bury this pandemic for good. Most people forgot about that.

(talking from a country where right now 800 people are dying each day, but you still can go to the stadium twice a week to watch your favorite football team).


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Feb 14, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> why nowadays everything corona related revolves around vaccine?
> 
> The shot is extremely important but there are tons of extra measures that need to be taken to bury this pandemic for good. Most people forgot about that.
> 
> (talking from a country where right now 800 people are dying each day, but you still can go to the stadium twice a week to watch your favorite football team).


Probably because vaccines are pretty much the best way to get significant protection against C19. Being able to heavily reduce chances of getting significant illnesses, less chances of death, reduce spread, etc. It's no wonder they're heavily revolved around. And even more protection by following safety standards like masks, social distancing, cleaning, etc.
But with so many stubborn/misnformed/conspiracy-driven people in the world, this pandemic isn't stopping any time soon and more and more lives are being lost.


----------



## The Catboy (Feb 15, 2022)

LinkmstrYT said:


> Probably because vaccines are pretty much the best way to get significant protection against C19. Being able to heavily reduce chances of getting significant illnesses, less chances of death, reduce spread, etc. It's no wonder they're heavily revolved around. And even more protection by following safety standards like masks, social distancing, cleaning, etc.
> But with so many stubborn/misnformed/conspiracy-driven people in the world, this pandemic isn't stopping any time soon and more and more lives are being lost.


It really doesn’t help that this conversation gets comments from conspiracy nuts who come in like, “Never got Covid, it’s not real anyways! Vaccines don’t work, neighbors got Covid but not me! Vaccines are fake!” Like yeah, that’s why this conversation turned to vaccines because nutjobs post crazy shit and that simply can’t pass nor remain unchallenged.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> blah blah blah blah I have nothing interesting to say as usual


It's ok buddy, other people can think for you.


The Catboy said:


> It’s a waste of time because of the previous statements I’ve already made in regards to the links you’ve posted. You’ve only posted conspiracies and misquote, then expect people to take them seriously and get mad when they don’t. Have you considered that maybe it’s your approach that’s a problem? That maybe people would be less dismissive if you took time to listen to the points they are bringing up? Have you considered maybe your treatment of others has caused all of this?


It's a waste of time since instead of hearing both side and maybe some suspisions of the vaccine, you just completely ignore it and listen to big daddy government. Hey, you're free to do that, but you're not gonna drag me and a lot of other people with your opinions with all these BS vaccines and mandates, that's not gonna happen. Maybe you should look at your approach and treatment of others in this case as well.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> It's ok buddy, other people can think for you.
> 
> It's a waste of time since instead of hearing both side and maybe some suspisions of the vaccine, you just completely ignore it and listen to big daddy government. Hey, you're free to do that, but you're not gonna drag me and a lot of other people with your opinions with all these BS vaccines and mandates, that's not gonna happen. Maybe you should look at your approach and treatment of others in this case as


..WoW what a suprise !!. A whole .other day and you couldn't provided a link or sources that supports your Reptilian/Mircochip vaccine Theory


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> ..WoW what a suprise !!. A whole .other day and you couldn't provided a link or sources that supports your Reptilian/Mircochip vaccine Theory


I've already provided enough links that morons would like to ignore, and I'm not sure I ever said I believed in any reptilian/microchips in vaccines as far as I recall, you just made that up as per usual.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I've already provided enough links that morons would like to ignore, and I'm not sure I ever said I believed in any reptilian/microchips in vaccines as far as I recall, you just made that up as per usual.


…hey look another respond without actually provide ANY LINK OR SOURCES..
It’s almost like he’s having trouble copying and paste “all of the amazing “ sources


----------



## tabzer (Feb 15, 2022)

Lacius said:


> Reputable sources have been provided by myself and others for months.



You have not provided evidence contradicting the data that was presented.



The Catboy said:


> If anything I am saying is wrong, then properly dispute those statements with evidence.



There is a problem when someone doesn't like the data and decides to discount it because the doctor "is a quack", or something unrelated to the claim could be scrutinized, so therefore it becomes grounds to reject the data.  For example, Lacius characterized the study I provided as claiming that the vaccine causes suicides, so the raw data should be disregarded.  The characterization is intentionally libellous to make up for his inability to disprove the measurements.  He writes about "the science" like CNN writes "the news".  Very trashy.  

If that's how this works, then everything everyone here says could and should be rejected because some idiot on gbatemp posted it.


----------



## tabzer (Feb 15, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Literally the post above this one you outright state it’s a jab at my health. As for the rest, that’s not at all what anyone is saying. What has been said, is that unvaccinated are getting worse symptoms of Covid and dying at a higher rate, which is proven and actual reality.
> https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-status.htm
> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm
> https://www.azdhs.gov/covid19/documents/data/rates-of-cov-19-by-vaccination.pdf?v=20220105
> ...



Yeah, you are wrong.  My sources don't debunk the science, or even conflict with existing data.  They just demonstrate what is being found in my locale, and defend the statement I make when I say I am not "many times" more likely to die if I don't get vaccinated.  The "statistics" you use to apply to everyone is a very specific statistic formed to help sell the vaccine.  The stat is only useful when making assumptions or attempting to cause others to make assumptions.  It is literally scare tactic propaganda.


----------



## subcon959 (Feb 15, 2022)

I was one of the ones that said a discussion involving all opinions was a good thing, but at this point I don't see any merit in continuing. All arguments have been made and at this point are just being repeated ad infinitum.

This thread is probably better off closed until something significant changes in the current narrative.

Also, surely everyone is sick of talking about Covid by now?


----------



## KingVamp (Feb 15, 2022)

subcon959 said:


> I was one of the ones that said a discussion involving all opinions was a good thing, but at this point I don't see any merit in continuing. All arguments have been made and at this point are just being repeated ad infinitum.
> 
> This thread is probably better off closed until something significant changes in the current narrative.
> 
> Also, surely everyone is sick of talking about Covid by now?


Another one will just pop up.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> There is a problem when someone doesn't like the data and decides to discount it because the doctor "is a quack", or something





tabzer said:


> Yeah, you are wrong.  My sources don't debunk the science, or even conflict with existing data.  They just demonstrate what is being found in my locale,


…. Again your source was a “ex” paranoid junkie comedian Russell Brand. Is that what you consider your locale doctor?


----------



## tabzer (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> …. Again your source was a “ex” paranoid junkie comedian Russell Brand. Is that what you consider your locale doctor?



Russell Brand has never been a source for anything.  You should learn the definition.  To answer your question, no.  Everybody who "liked" your previous comment knew better and do not care that you are left in the dark.  Frankly, I don't care either.  You are forcing me to choose between Russell Brand and gbatemp crack panda.


----------



## djpannda (Feb 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Russell Brand has never been a source for anything.  You should learn the definition.  To answer your question, no.  Everybody who "liked" your previous comment knew better and do not care that you are left in the dark.  Frankly, I don't care either.  You are forcing me to choose between Russell Brand and gbatemp crack panda.


..oh looks Another one who likes to respond without actually provide ANY LINK OR SOURCES..

BUT  seriously when asked for sources you posted Russell Brand 




lol I guess your memory is also opinion based.


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## BitMasterPlus (Feb 15, 2022)

djpannda said:


> …hey look another respond without actually provide ANY LINK OR SOURCES..
> It’s almost like he’s having trouble copying and paste “all of the amazing “ sources


Jesus you truly are a dumbass and a terrible person aren't you? Get a life and some help man, you really need it.


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## The Catboy (Feb 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Yeah, you are wrong.  My sources don't debunk the science, or even conflict with existing data.  They just demonstrate what is being found in my locale, and defend the statement I make when I say I am not "many times" more likely to die if I don't get vaccinated.  The "statistics" you use to apply to everyone is a very specific statistic formed to help sell the vaccine.  The stat is only useful when making assumptions or attempting to cause others to make assumptions.  It is literally scare tactic propaganda.


I didn't even say any of that, I said you ignored details in your post to create a narrative that doesn't even match the actual source you posted. Your other source was just a comedian.
What I posted was more than just statistics, they include statistics but they weren't just statistics. Just because you don't like living in reality, doesn't mean the reality is "literally scare tactic propaganda."


tabzer said:


> You have not provided evidence contradicting the data that was presented.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sorry that I don't accept misquotes, Chinese cults, and comedians as sources. I also don't accept when someone makes claims and twists the one article they've posted to the point where their own claims don't even match their source.



BitMasterPlus said:


> It's ok buddy, other people can think for you.
> 
> It's a waste of time since instead of hearing both side and maybe some suspisions of the vaccine, you just completely ignore it and listen to big daddy government. Hey, you're free to do that, but you're not gonna drag me and a lot of other people with your opinions with all these BS vaccines and mandates, that's not gonna happen. Maybe you should look at your approach and treatment of others in this case as well.


Maybe try posting something that isn't from a Chinese conspiracy cult or read your sources before misquoting them.


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## Veho (Feb 15, 2022)

That's enough of that.


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