# Nintendo will have inferior hardware next gen



## 1Player (Feb 1, 2012)

> Nintendo has admitted that while its forthcoming Wii U game console will support high-definition graphics and will be rather powerful, it will not be able to compete with the next-generation systems from Microsoft Corp. or Sony Corp. in terms of performance as they will be ultra-powerful. Instead, Nintendo calls its approach balanced as it features both improvements and exclusive technologies.​



The 3DS is already behind the PS Vita in regards to hardware. Looks like the Wii U will follow that trend.
This means developers who makes games for the PS4 and/or the next XBOX and wants to port it to the Wii U  will have to water it down just like the Wii.




source: http://www.xbitlabs....ce_Console.html


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## PyroSpark (Feb 1, 2012)

Looks like I won't be getting it, then. Nintendo, gotta get with the times.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

1Player said:


> This means developers who makes games for the PS4 and/or the next XBOX and wants to port it to the Wii U  will have to water it down just like the Wii.



*No, no it does not*. The games released for the PS3 nowadays are only watered-down because of the little RAM available, and the WiiU has a faster processor and more RAM available.

This "means" that its life-cycle will be shorter then that of the PS4 and the NextBox. Your interpretation is inaccurate.

To elaborate on that, it's physically impossible nowadays to create games more complex then the ones we have now, for numerous reasons. Development time is already stretched beyond proportion and so are the development costs.

We are not standing on the edge of a graphics revolution - we're nowhere near it. The WiiU will fare just fine.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 1, 2012)

Theyre going to be too busy porting PS3 and XBox 360 games...


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## chris888222 (Feb 1, 2012)

Can I quote something from our fellow temp @[member='chartube12']



> Nintendo has surely mastered the art of disappointment.



Advances which just boost it to hardware years ago and an exclusive tablet controller isn't going to do you any good, Nintendo. 

Unless you prove me wrong.


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## emigre (Feb 1, 2012)

Valwin posts a thread and now 1Player. The trolling balance has been somewhat readdressed.


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## p1ngpong (Feb 1, 2012)

Same as every other gen then.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 1, 2012)

Gamers are a fickle bunch...


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## GreatZimkogway (Feb 1, 2012)

People...didn't...expect this?  Nintendo *never* goes for the most power hardware.  If anything, this means the WiiU will be more affordable.  Like the 3DS(or are they losing money on this again?) is quite inferior to the PSVita.  Price means everything, lower the price, the more it'll be bought(usually).  Besides, the WiiU was announced prior, of course it'll have inferior hardware.  But it'll have a superior pricetag.  Just like the Wii.  Just like the 3DS.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 1, 2012)

alunral said:


> People...didn't...expect this?  Nintendo *never* goes for the most power hardware.  If anything, this means the WiiU will be more affordable.  Like the 3DS(or are they losing money on this again?) is quite inferior to the PSVita.  Price means everything, lower the price, the more it'll be bought(usually).  Besides, the WiiU was announced prior, of course it'll have inferior hardware.  But it'll have a superior pricetag.  Just like the Wii.  Just like the 3DS.



precisely.

Personally, I can't wait to shell out >$500 for the next PS/Xbox


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## Zeroneo (Feb 1, 2012)

*sigh* This is false. The author of this article simply selected some things from the Nintendo Q&A and ignored the others. What Iwata talks about is that Nintendo *games* won't be like the ones in other consoles, as in they all won't take years and years to develop. Modern game journalism at it's finest.


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## yuyuyup (Feb 1, 2012)

alunral said:


> People...didn't...expect this?  Nintendo *never* goes for the most power hardware.  If anything, this means the WiiU will be more affordable.  Like the 3DS(or are they losing money on this again?) is quite inferior to the PSVita.  Price means everything, lower the price, the more it'll be bought(usually).  Besides, the WiiU was announced prior, of course it'll have inferior hardware.  But it'll have a superior pricetag.  Just like the Wii.  Just like the 3DS.


Gamecube was more powerful than PS2.

3DS is more capable than the Vita if you think 3D is worth it (I think that.)  But Vita will still be cool.

Fuck the Wii U, fuckin Nintendo and their stupid tablet gimmick.  I couldn't possibly think of enough unique gameplay elements to justify hugely gimped specs.  When DS was announced, there were a ton of great concepts right away, tons of devs were excited.  Same with Wii, same with 3DS.  Only a handful for Wii U, and I haven't seen any tech demos worth giving a shit about except for that FPS with motion control.  But they can obviously put that kind of control scheme in the 3DS.


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## Deleted_171835 (Feb 1, 2012)

What a load of shit.

This was the exact quote.


> We are aiming to make a system which shall not be forced into competing with the others where the contenders can fight only with massive developer resources and long development times as their weapons. Having said that, however, as I mentioned, it is true that, in some software areas, we need to be engaged in the power games. Take The Legend of Zelda franchise, for example, the fans must be looking for the graphic representations that they do not see as cheap at all when the title is released for the Wii U


Nintendo was referring to the fact that not all their Wii U games will have huge budgets and be "engaged in the power race" which makes sense for things like WarioWare and Rhythm Heaven. And that other games like Zelda will have good graphics.

You guys should read things first instead of posting a bunch of crap to boost your post count.


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## heartgold (Feb 1, 2012)

*The journalists are fucking dumb! What Iwata said is posted in the Q&A I linked. The opening poster should know more than to post this bullshit.*

*In no way Iwata said the Wii is inferior (weakly built), he just said that it isn't in direct competition with the next x-box/playstation. That doesn't mean it'll be under powered, just they want to focus on more other features to differentiate itself from the competitor.*


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## Valwin (Feb 1, 2012)

by going to that  source there lots of great wiiu info like their aproach with third party   ect

1players thanks for letting people know how great the wiiu is because that source is full of great wiiu news



also you suck at news you try to make the wiiu look bad with no proof cuz the source shows YOU lie


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## Frederica Bernkastel (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't see a problem here. Why is this news?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

alunral said:


> People...didn't...expect this?  Nintendo *never* goes for the most power hardware.


Gamecube? Nintendo64? Suprisingly, VirtualBoy (32-Bit processor in a portable - what can you say)?


> If anything, this means the WiiU will be more affordable.


Yes.





> Price means everything, lower the price, the more it'll be bought(usually).


Explains why the vastly inferior 3DS was sold at launch for just as much as the Vita is now.





> Besides, the WiiU was announced prior, of course it'll have inferior hardware.


Irrelevant. NextBox and the WiiU were in development roughly at the same time, and I can't help but suspect that so is the PS4. Development takes years, throughout it, differences when it comes to hardware sort of blur. It would be a different situation were the WiiU released already and PS4/NextBox developers had the time to step it up. Which they don't. 





> But it'll have a superior pricetag.  Just like the Wii.  Just like the 3DS.


Quantity over Quality or Quality over Quantity? This time, the WiiU is in my opinion in the healthy centere, much like the XBox360 was last generation. Not too beefy, not too slow. Just right.


yuyuyup said:


> 3DS is more capable than the Vita if you think 3D is worth it (I think that.)


3D being the selling point? Really?

You know it's just the matter of the screen used and a programming layer that displayes the final image in interlaced slits?

Even the PSP is capable of 3D display - it's just using a homebrew plugin to achieve it and you need glasses to use it since the display is not capable of glasses-less 3D. Nevertheless, the PSP does it, and the 3DS is twice or even three times more powerful, so how's that an achievement?


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## heartgold (Feb 1, 2012)

heartgold said:


> *The journalists are fucking dumb! What Iwata said is posted in the Q&A I linked. The opening poster should know more than to post this bullshit.*
> 
> *In no way Iwata said the Wii U is inferior (weakly built), he just said that it isn't in direct competition with the next x-box/playstation. That doesn't mean it'll be under powered, just they want to focus on more other features to differentiate itself from the competitor.*



Posting this once more so people can clearly see, thread should be closed. It's a very incorrect article.

Close thread please.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 1, 2012)

who the fuck cares?! I just want to play nintendo exclusives on the thing!
If I want the most amazing graphics, I will go and buy a Jaguar


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 1, 2012)

Valwin said:


> by going to that  source there lots of great wiiu info like their aproach with third party   ect
> 
> 1players thanks for letting people know how great the wiiu is because that source is full of great wiiu news
> 
> ...



if this isn't the pot calling the kettle a troll...


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## Valwin (Feb 1, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > by going to that  source there lots of great wiiu info like their aproach with third party   ect
> ...




i post news that you can check in the source that they are true i never post lies


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 1, 2012)

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata said:
			
		

> We are aiming to make a system which shall not be forced into competing with the others where the contenders can fight only with massive developer resources and long development times as their weapons. Having said that, however, as I mentioned, it is true that, in some software areas, we need to be engaged in the power games. Take The Legend of Zelda franchise, for example, the fans must be looking for the graphic representations that they do not see as cheap at all when the title is released for the Wii U,


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## Erdnaxela (Feb 1, 2012)

soulx said:


> What a load of shit.
> 
> This was the exact quote.
> 
> ...


Sadly, people enjoy trolling Nintendo and will only read this topic's title...

I wonder why "bad" Nintendo news get so many views x)


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## BlueStar (Feb 1, 2012)

Why do people want Nintendo to create an uber machine?  How many polygons do you need to render Mario?


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## Satangel (Feb 1, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> Why do people want Nintendo to create an uber machine?  How many polygons do you need to render Mario?


Because we want at least decent third party support this time? We're sick and tired of getting PSP ports for multiplatform games?


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## nando (Feb 1, 2012)

zelda ss could of used a lot more polys.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 1, 2012)

Valwin said:


> i post news that you can check in the source that they are true i never post lies



The words "news" and "rumor" are not interchangeable.  You, my friend, are the National Enquirer...the Soap Opera Digest if you will...of GBAtemp.  You are to anything other than Nintendo what FOX News is to liberalism. 

Hence the pot/kettle comment.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

Satangel said:


> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> > Why do people want Nintendo to create an uber machine?  How many polygons do you need to render Mario?
> ...


For god's sake, the PS3 plays bloody Skyrim and the WiiU is 1,5 times the PS3 when it comes to processing power and it has 3 times the RAM - are you really THAT scared that you won't get 3rd party support on a console that'll sell better then cure for cancer AND will be able to pull off the latest titles for the next 5 years at least?


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 1, 2012)

Microsoft has even made similar comments


			
				Microsoft France’s Cedrick Delmas said:
			
		

> We’re not here to counter Nintendo and they’re not here to fight the other manufacturers. Nintendo has put itself in a different cycle, they’re advancing at their own pace.


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## BlueStar (Feb 1, 2012)

Just seems like some people want Nintendo to make an as powerful as possible machine with a traditional controller and PSN/XBL style online.  There are, in all likelyhood, going to be two consoles exactly like that next gen.  Why not just buy one of those?


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## machomuu (Feb 1, 2012)

Satangel said:


> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> > Why do people want Nintendo to create an uber machine?  How many polygons do you need to render Mario?
> ...


Actually, one of the reasons the PS2 was lauded as being so great (and the reason it's my favorite system so far) is because it had amazing 3rd party support despite the fact that it was inferior (power-wise) to the Gamecube.  Clearly power isn't the deciding factor for 3rd party devs.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> Just seems like some people want Nintendo to make an as powerful as possible machine with a traditional controller and PSN/XBL style online.  There are, in all likelyhood, going to be two consoles exactly like that next gen.  Why not just buy one of those?


"As powerful as possible" is a welcome addition, always. PSX/XBL style online is very much welcome since WFC is *bad*, it really is. When it comes to controls and additional features, Nintendo was and always has been King, and this is why the WiiU will sell regardless of whether or not it will be the most powerful console out there.

And if it will sell and WILL be capable of running multiplat games efficiently, it will recieve multiplats. It will recieve 3rd party support.

Articles like this is just whistle-blowing for no reason.




machomuu said:


> Actually, one of the reasons the PS2 was lauded as being so great (and the reason it's my favorite system so far) is because it had amazing 3rd party support despite the fact that it was inferior (power-wise) to the Gamecube.  Clearly power isn't the deciding factor for 3rd party devs.



It didn't have to be as powerful. Despite generating less polygons, the GPU embedded in the system had a revolutionary (at that time) feature of "not rendering parts of models that are not actively displayed". That meant that if a character was only partially on-screen then it was only partially rendered, saving up polygons for other models that were in plain sight rather then around the edges. It also automatically nullfied the need for worrying about what kind of maps you model because a metaphorical "city" would only be rendered "infront" of the character rather then behind it.

Using this technology the PS2 stayed afloat despite being inferior for a long, long time since developers had less to worry about.


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## iFish (Feb 1, 2012)

It's a good thing that higher specs =\= better system.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Feb 1, 2012)

I always wonder what people are thinking will go into the PS4 or Xbox 720 thats going to be so much more powerful then the Wii-U... 

Unless IBM has made some major advancement in chip tech that some how has escaped the news... 

Sure you could stick more RAM in and a better GPU but at that point costs quickly becomes a major issue, and there is that whole diminishing return on investment thing. Meaning that while you could beat the Wii-U in terms of power on paper right now. On the screen its going to be a hollow and expensive victory as who is going to be able to tell the difference between native 1080P on the Wii-U and Native 1080P on the PS4 or the 720? Will the PS4 and 720 feature better textures? Unlikely as the GPU's really will have close to the same feature set so just more FPS is all thats going to be offered....


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## purechaos996 (Feb 1, 2012)

Well we dont need better graphics anyway xD As far as im concered, todays standards for graphics are fine, would I like to be able to see my PC's ability on my TV sure but its not needed. The only thing I want from nintendo.

1.) A good online service
2.) Good third Party Support.
3.) More 1st party titles.
4.) I would say a normal controller but since I've not used the WiiU tablet I can't really say.
5.) I would love to see the system have internal storage like a hard drive.


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## frogboy (Feb 1, 2012)

1Player said:


> The 3DS is already behind the PS Vita in regards to hardware.


Have you played a PS Vita in 3D?


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## 324atk (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh Noes!!!!1 Nintendo won't have better graphics?/?!? Whatever will I do if I can't kill someone with nextgen graphics??








Spoiler



pure [/sarcasm] although that is what most "hardcore" gamers sound like today.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

frogboy said:


> 1Player said:
> 
> 
> > The 3DS is already behind the PS Vita in regards to hardware.
> ...


You do realize that all the Vita needs to display stereoscopic 3D is a plugin supporting it and a pair of cyan/red glasses, right?

Don't make out 3D as a massive hardware "strong point" because it doesn't need much processing power. The PSP can display 3D no problemo, and it wasn't even designed for it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 1, 2012)

"Nintendo always does this".

Just like the Gamecube and N64. Underpowered pieces of shit.


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## heartgold (Feb 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> frogboy said:
> 
> 
> > 1Player said:
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Just a personal question, would you play with the glasses on?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
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> > frogboy said:
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Yep. I see no problem at all in wearing 3D glasses in a cinema, why would I mind on a couch?


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 1, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Just a personal question, would you play with the glasses on?



Better than having to hold it at specific distances.

Also I don't think anyone gave a shit about 3D gaming until Nintendo said "WE HAVE a 3D CONSOLE", then people thought it was like Christ turning water into wine. Except the water was ideas that had been around for a while and the wine was just Nintendo using those ideas which of course makes them TOTALLY DIFFERENT.


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## heartgold (Feb 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
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> > Foxi4 said:
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'ha that's all good. Didn't the PSP have a custom 3D plug in? o-o


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Just a personal question, would you play with the glasses on?
> ...


It really is a matter of marketing indeed.

3D screens are nothing new - I've seen them on mobile phones WAAAAY back and nobody seemed to herald it as the ushering of a new era. Nintendo does it and all of a sudden "gaming has changed".




heartgold said:


> 'ha that's all good. Didn't the PSP have a custom 3D plug in? o-o



It had indeed, which is why I say that it's not CPU-intensive THAT MUCH. The difference between the PSP plugin and the 3DS is that the 3DS cuts the rendered scene into slits and directs them to each eye while the PSP plugin checks which models are in the foreground, which are further and approprietly colours them, making them appear 3D.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "Nintendo always does this".
> 
> Just like the Gamecube and N64. Underpowered pieces of shit.


you can add the SNES to that list, it was the superior console back then
but it succeeded unlike the gmc and n64


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 1, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > "Nintendo always does this".
> ...



Everyone knows the SNES was the Sega Genesis of its generation.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> NahuelDS said:
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> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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eh?


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Also I don't think anyone gave a shit about 3D gaming until Nintendo said "WE HAVE a 3D CONSOLE", then people thought it was like Christ turning water into wine. Except the water was ideas that had been around for a while and the wine was just Nintendo using those ideas which of course makes them TOTALLY DIFFERENT.


No body gave a shit about 3D gaming because prior to the 3DS it was done rather shittily on the PS3


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > "Nintendo always does this".
> ...


The Gamecube suprisingly turned in a profit, so in all factuality, the N64 was a "bigger flop" despite having a "better library".

As far as the SNES is concerned, it was not all THAT superior - you're forgetting about the lesser-known consoles like the Jaguar or the Genesis + Add-Ons which was admittedly more powerful then the SNES.



gloweyjoey said:


> No body gave a shit about 3D gaming because prior to the 3DS it was done rather shittily on the PS3



And the 3DS does it great by completely ruining the 3D effect if you move a nanometer to either side.

Which is quite peculiar as this is supposed to be a portable, played on the go. You sort of... "move" on the go.


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## Valwin (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Just like the Gamecube and N64. Underpowered pieces of shit.



N64. Underpowered ?????????????????????????  and shit

wtf did i just read


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## machomuu (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Just a personal question, would you play with the glasses on?
> ...


It was an interesting concept that we didn't really need to want before it was presented to us.  That said, I don't think anyone bought it just for the 3D except those who thought it was a DS revision with added 3D (commonly called the 3D DS).  Personally I don't care about the 3D, but it's nice to have, I guess.  Innovative, but not worth being the main draw of the system imo, though I can see why I they did it.


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## Valwin (Feb 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NahuelDS said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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dude  the  Jaguar was garbage sometimes it never even turn on o god the nightmares it still gives me


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Just like the Gamecube and N64. Underpowered pieces of shit.
> ...


You did not detect the joke. At all.



Valwin said:


> dude  the  Jaguar was garbage sometimes it never even turn on o god the nightmares it still gives me



Oh really? Or are you saying this because Jaguars sometimes have issues NOW, YEARS after they were released?

Fact are that they had high specs for the time. Shitty library, but we're talking hardware here. To keep up, Nintendo had to put graphics chips ON their cartridges just to prolong the SNES's life cycle. They added *hardware* to *cartridges*.


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## heartgold (Feb 1, 2012)

Nintendo is god, technology advances happens when they say....as Foxi4 said no one gave a fuck about 3D phones before.


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## Valwin (Feb 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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i guess not :S


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 1, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > Also I don't think anyone gave a shit about 3D gaming until Nintendo said "WE HAVE a 3D CONSOLE", then people thought it was like Christ turning water into wine. Except the water was ideas that had been around for a while and the wine was just Nintendo using those ideas which of course makes them TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
> ...



Despite the fact that the PS3 has offered the most innovative use of the technology to ever hit gaming. 3D splitscreen is fucking awesome.

Oh and the 3D is fine and it was far from "shittily" done.



NahuelDS said:


> eh?



That was a joke too.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 1, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> As far as the SNES is concerned, it was not all THAT superior - you're forgetting about the lesser-known consoles like the Jaguar or the Genesis + Add-Ons which was admittedly more powerful then the SNES.


nah, you cant even consider the 3DO, CDi, Jaguar as gaming consoles... they were a joke




Guild McCommunist said:


> Everyone knows the SNES was the Sega Genesis of its generation.


I'm still puzzled by your post Guild


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## machomuu (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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I think it's more a matter of "not enough people had/wanted to shell out the money for a 3D TV and glasses" than it actually sucking.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> gloweyjoey said:
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> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
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It very well could have just been my eyes or the type of glasses I was using, but I was far from impressed in the 3D on the PS3 games I played.


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## heartgold (Feb 1, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...



Guild is right, PS3 had incredible 3D.  I really hope they push 3D next gen.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 1, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> It very well could have just been my eyes or the type of glasses I was using, but I was far from impressed in the 3D on the PS3 games I played.



It looks much better with the Fanboy Vision glasses off, trust me.

I didn't play too much of it but I played a bit of BlOps with a friend on his 3D TV on a PS3 and it looked pretty cool.



machomuu said:


> I think it's more a matter of "not enough people had/wanted to shell out the money for a 3D TV and glasses" than it actually sucking.



Which is why Sony introduced newer, lower priced 3D TVs. Certainly not as big as a gigantic flat screen but large enough for gaming, plus it demoed that sweet 3D splitscreen tech.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the SNES is concerned, it was not all THAT superior - you're forgetting about the lesser-known consoles like the Jaguar or the Genesis + Add-Ons which was admittedly more powerful then the SNES.
> ...


*Why can't I*? Let's forget the CDi, as that was basically an FMV player, but the 3DO and the Jaguar had the potential to be huge and if the libraries were better and the marketing was proper, they would've. They're like "The Dreamcasts of the 16/32-bit Transition Era" - they were killed off by more popular alternatives regardless of whether or not they were better.

The 3DO died due to its sheer price (it cost a soul of a newborn for that time, basically) and the AMMOUNT of available 3DO's - people were confused out of their minds when in a store they saw 3DO's of vastly different manufacturers.

The Jaguar? Well, it was all great but it had No Gaemz and Atari didn't have the resources to keep it afloat until the games are released for it.


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## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind glasses 3D on handhelds, I can see it happening in the next Sony handheld.


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NahuelDS said:
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> 
> > Foxi4 said:
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No the jaguar fail because they made it out of crap the damn things dint turn on  most of the time


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## mysticwaterfall (Feb 2, 2012)

I love how this supposed source takes what nintendo says and then says something completly unrelated to it. Sad what passes for news these days.  There really should be a rule against obvious troll topics.

Will the 720 and ps4 be more powerful? Probably. Will this be enough of a difference to matter much? Probably not.

Edit: The jaguar was horribly designed, peroid. It had serious flaws in its memory architecture and a poor development enivornment that made it annoyning as heck to program for.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > It very well could have just been my eyes or the type of glasses I was using, but I was far from impressed in the 3D on the PS3 games I played.
> ...


After making post after post defending Sony from fanboyism in USN I get accoused of "Fanboy Vision"? Nice rebuttal.

Also, the TV also could have played a part in the 3D not being impressive in my case.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> After making post after post defending Sony from fanboyism in USN I get accoused of "Fanboy Vision"? Nice rebuttal.
> 
> Also, the TV also could have played a part in the 3D not being impressive in my case.



I was just making a joke 

But I don't know, it probably depends on the TV and the tech has advanced a lot from even a few years ago. God knows how 3D TVs are now from when I played.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...



Or you could be in the ~5% of people who can't see 3D with the tech as it stands now.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> No the jaguar fail because they made it out of crap the damn things dint turn on  most of the time.


The PS3 had YLOD's, the 360 had RROD's, I don't see either failing. Stop trolololing because that wasn't the main issue of the system.


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > No the jaguar fail because they made it out of crap the damn things dint turn on  most of the time.
> ...



yes it was dude  look it up


----------



## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > No the jaguar fail because they made it out of crap the damn things dint turn on  most of the time.
> ...


Exactly, that system had a lot of potential.  If it had better support it could have been a gem, and maybe Atari would still be making systems.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Valwin said:
> ...


I'm well-aware of the hardware issues of the first Jaguars, but the main reason for its demise were the games and the "weird" controller, really.







How many interface buttons do you need? And why are the A B C buttons put diagonally and so wide apart? How does this help?


----------



## Nah3DS (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> *Why can't I*? Let's forget the CDi, as that was basically an FMV player, but the 3DO and the Jaguar had the potential to be huge and if the libraries were better and the marketing was proper, they would've. They're like "The Dreamcasts of the 16/32-bit Transition Era" - they were killed off by more popular alternatives regardless of whether or not they were better.


no, the NEO-GEO was "the dreamcast of the mid '90"
It had the same aproach as the 3DO: "this is a REAL gaming machine" (now Sony is capitalizing on that fad since the playstation), but it had A library of good games
It was never ment to be a popular console... it was all about bringing the arcade experience to home. The 3DO was just... terrible.



machomuu said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Valwin said:
> ...


disagree... it has been reported by developers that it was really hard to code for the Jaguar. It had a really weird construction with mixed processors to somehow reach 64 bit. The Jaguar never had potential


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## spotanjo3 (Feb 2, 2012)

Is this news for real ? Seriously ?


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## the_randomizer (Feb 2, 2012)

1Player said:


> The 3DS is already behind the PS Vita in regards to hardware. Looks like the Wii U will follow that trend.​
> This means developers who makes games for the PS4 and/or the next XBOX and wants to port it to the Wii U  will have to water it down just like the Wii.








Right, because we all know that more powerful hardware _ALWAYS_ results in great games being released.  I'll have to disagree with the statement that ports to the WiiU will be severely watered down as they were on the Wii. First, third parties (Team Ninja especially) stated that WiiU development is easier this time around, much like the Xbox360 or PS3.  Second, no one, except Nintendo, knows anything about the specs of the CPU, GPU, etc and anyone who has the balls to make asinine assumptions about them sucking needs to have a full frontal lobotomy.  Last generation, which console sold more out of the three? PS2? Xbox? Gamecube? If you answered "PS2", then you're correct. It had the weakest hardware, sure, but what made it have such a huge impact was the library of games. There are tons of PS2 games I love to play, despite the inferior graphics or slower CPU when compared to the other two consoles.   Sorry, but good games > super high-end hardware. By your logic, the N64 would have outsold the PSX, the Genesis would have outsold the Super Nintendo, and the PSP would have outsold the original DS. Your argument is invalid. K thx bai.


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## heartgold (Feb 2, 2012)

All this talk, I wish Sega still made consoles. The next dreamcast or NGP, anthing would give me so much joy.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > *Why can't I*? Let's forget the CDi, as that was basically an FMV player, but the 3DO and the Jaguar had the potential to be huge and if the libraries were better and the marketing was proper, they would've. They're like "The Dreamcasts of the 16/32-bit Transition Era" - they were killed off by more popular alternatives regardless of whether or not they were better.
> ...


The Neo-Geo was an arcade cabinet that was jammed into a console. In fact, you could get adapters that would allow you to play cabinet games on the system itself. It was overpriced beyond proportion and overpowered beyond imagination, so it failed. $649.99 USD was beyond anyone's budget and the games weren't cheap either. It was doomed from the start.

Not only that, it came out much later then


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## DS1 (Feb 2, 2012)

My friend had an old used Jaguar and it never had that problem. My friend treated all of his junk like crap and yet his Jaguar never had a problem. He fed his Jaguar to his violent dog and it still worked afterward. This is the first I've ever heard of Jaguars not turning on.


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

DS1 said:


> My friend had an old used Jaguar and it never had that problem. My friend treated all of his junk like crap and yet his Jaguar never had a problem. He fed his Jaguar to his violent dog and it still worked afterward. This is the first I've ever heard of Jaguars not turning on.


It's an issue that's connected with the infamous Jaguar CD Red Screen of Death - the attachment liked to just die on the user. The console itself? I'm not aware of any issues like that.

That said, Jaguar CD's started "failing" nowadays when collectors began to hunt them. Unless they always have and the rumour just spread quicker over the internet.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

PsionicRoshambo said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...


Well if I was able to see 3D in 1998 wihen I saw Honey I shrunk the Audience at Disneyland, I'm pretty sure I can see it with the tech now (unless Ive damaged my optic nerve somehow)


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

It does not matter which console is more powerful than another its down to games and what you like to play, this argument should have been left in the playgrounds of the 80's. Nintendo for all their faults have proved time and time again they are good at what they do best and that is to write games, not graphical showcases. Look at most of the online top games lists on any of the big sites or in most multiformat magazines and you will see Nintendo take the majority of the top spots for their games.  Nintendo handhelds have never been the most powerful but they have always beaten out the competition in the long run. I have a lot of consoles in my house, out of them all, Nintendo consoles and the Dreamcast have the heart of the gamer, the rest do their job, but have never felt like pure gaming heaven. This is my opinion and everyones is different. This isnt news, its an excuse for a flame war of which there never will be any winnners.

Lock this topic and move on


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## DarkCoffe64 (Feb 2, 2012)

Don't care if the console is inferior or what.
I'll buy the console for the games!


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## BlueStar (Feb 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "Nintendo always does this".
> 
> Just like the Gamecube and N64. Underpowered pieces of shit.



I never recall considering the N64 to be a particularly powerful machine at the time and playing it again (on original hardware) shows how horribly it's aged.


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## Midna (Feb 2, 2012)

BlueStar said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > "Nintendo always does this".
> ...


It was the most advanced console at the time.

However, the RAM was a massive bottleneck, and the storage space on the carts was a nightmare.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> It does not matter which console is more powerful than another its down to games and what you like to play, this argument should have been left in the playgrounds of the 80's. Nintendo for all their faults have proved time and time again they are good at what they do best and that is to write games, not graphical showcases. Look at most of the online top games lists on any of the big sites or in most multiformat magazines and you will see Nintendo take the majority of the top spots for their games.  Nintendo handhelds have never been the most powerful but they have always beaten out the competition in the long run. I have a lot of consoles in my house, out of them all, Nintendo consoles and the Dreamcast have the heart of the gamer, the rest do their job, but have never felt like pure gaming heaven. This is my opinion and everyones is different. This isnt news, its an excuse for a flame war of which there never will be any winnners.
> 
> Lock this topic and move on


Oh yeah, deffo.

This is why the legendary Atari 2600 and its successors survived the test of time and now gamers mass-download titles from the system. Oh, wait, they don't.

There's an area in which each generation has to fit in to be treated seriously - this generation it's "stronger then the PS3, weaker then a gaming rig" and whoever doesn't comply to this rule will fall off the margin and die a horrible death.

Think of the Wii. Sold like hotcakes, but only a handful of games was actually worth purchasing. Mario titles, Zelda titles, Metroid 3, some CoD games and the likes - those games had sales. A large portion of games however did not - in fact, most of the Wii games are *bad enough* not to even warrant a download. The system sold great, admittedly, thanks to its motion controls and thanks to the fact "It's Nintendo", but when you come to terms with that, what did it have to offer at the end of the day? Can you name one game that was on the top of sales charts, ahead of XBox360 and PS3 games? No, you can't, because games other then the ones mentioned above DIDN'T sell.


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## mysticwaterfall (Feb 2, 2012)

Midna said:


> BlueStar said:
> 
> 
> > Guild McCommunist said:
> ...



So true. If N64 had used CDs it would have been a lot different. FF would have never gone to PS for one thing. Square was originally making it for the N64 but stopped after the cartridge decision.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> The Neo-Geo was an arcade cabinet that was jammed into a console. In fact, you could get adapters that would allow you to play cabinet games on the system itself. It was overpriced beyond proportion and overpowered beyond imagination, so it failed. $649.99 USD was beyond anyone's budget and the games weren't cheap either. It was doomed from the start.
> 
> Not only that, it came out much later then


no, the NEOGEO came out 88(JP) 89(NA) 90(EU), the Jaguar came out in 93(WW)

you pointed out all the NEOGEO flaws and yet (with all those flaws) it managed to outsell the Jaguar


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## Midna (Feb 2, 2012)

Jeez 1player, could you have the decency not to selectively quote the article? Like how Mr. Iwata wants Zelda U to be a showcase of the graphical power of the console, and how Nintendo is co operating with devs to alter the Wii U hardware and software specifications. All your post was "Wii U is not poweful, end of post".


> "We are aiming to make a system which shall not be forced into competing with the others where the contenders can fight only with massive developer resources and long development times as their weapons. Having said that, however, as I mentioned, it is true that, in some software areas, we need to be engaged in the power games. Take The Legend of Zelda franchise, for example, the fans must be looking for the graphic representations that they do not see as cheap at all when the title is released for the Wii U," added Mr. Iwata.
> 
> A third-party game developer has confirmed that Nintendo's approach for working with third-parties has changed dramatically. Apparently, Nintendo is constantly adjusting firmware and hardware of Wii U in accordance with demands from game designers.
> 
> "They asked us what we would want from the hardware, and when we give them feedback we can see that they have definitely listened and making changes. The hardware is still changing constantly,"  said Yosuke Hayashi from Team Ninja, in an interview with Eurogamer web-site.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Can you name one game that was on the top of sales charts, ahead of XBox360 and PS3 games? No, you can't, because games other then the ones mentioned above DIDN'T sell.


Just Dance 3


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> So true. If N64 had used CDs it would have been a lot different. FF would have never gone to PS for one thing. Square was originally making it for the N64 but stopped after the cartridge decision.


From a historical standpoint however, this seemed to be a rather odd decision on Nintendo's part. They were actively developing a CD add-on for the SNES with Sony, why did they drop the idea in favour of cartridges and Disks (64 DD)?

That said, I heard the N64 was a rushed system in the first place - they had to release something since they knew Sony's comming with their PlayStation and they saw first-hand what their designers can and likely will do.


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## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

mysticwaterfall said:


> Midna said:
> 
> 
> > BlueStar said:
> ...


Agreed.  I always wonder about what it would have been like if they had decided on using disks or if they had finished the cancelled expansion.


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## heartgold (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > It does not matter which console is more powerful than another its down to games and what you like to play, this argument should have been left in the playgrounds of the 80's. Nintendo for all their faults have proved time and time again they are good at what they do best and that is to write games, not graphical showcases. Look at most of the online top games lists on any of the big sites or in most multiformat magazines and you will see Nintendo take the majority of the top spots for their games.  Nintendo handhelds have never been the most powerful but they have always beaten out the competition in the long run. I have a lot of consoles in my house, out of them all, Nintendo consoles and the Dreamcast have the heart of the gamer, the rest do their job, but have never felt like pure gaming heaven. This is my opinion and everyones is different. This isnt news, its an excuse for a flame war of which there never will be any winnners.
> ...


'Just dance' lol There's one .

*edit: beaten! :/


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > The Neo-Geo was an arcade cabinet that was jammed into a console. In fact, you could get adapters that would allow you to play cabinet games on the system itself. It was overpriced beyond proportion and overpowered beyond imagination, so it failed. $649.99 USD was beyond anyone's budget and the games weren't cheap either. It was doomed from the start.
> ...


As I said earlier, unlike SNK, Atari no longer had the finances to support a console until it starts selling. They previously released numerous systems which flopped - their wallets were empty and they desperatly needed the money. SNK on the otherhand had 3rd party support, they could easily port arcade titles to their console and they had the money to keep it afloat.



gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you name one game that was on the top of sales charts, ahead of XBox360 and PS3 games? No, you can't, because games other then the ones mentioned above DIDN'T sell.
> ...


*face palms*

Game. Proper game. No casual bull. Okay?


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## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


I don't see why that shouldn't count, it is a game, after all.


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## DS1 (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> NahuelDS said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



I like Just Dance, and I'm pretty sure I hold some authority on what makes a proper game.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


It is a game. A 3rd party made Wii game. Your opinion on it being "casual bull" does not mean it is excluded from software sales numbers.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

machomuu said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...


I suppose you're right, but "Just Dance" is not your everyday type of game - it's a genre of its own.

What I had in mind was a proper platformer, shooter, puzzle game - anything that was not made in-house and was not "Call of Duty" that was specific for the Wii and sold gajizillions.

Perhaps the challenge of naming "one" game was a bit too hasty of me, but the point stands that "Just Dance" alone doesn't justify in any way the purchase of a Wii. Many a titles remained in the shadows despite being really good and many titles didn't sell nearly as well as they deserved to. Not to mention that a ton of games weren't even developed for the system BECAUSE of the hardware constraints - that was my point.

Try to remember sales charts from 2-3 years ago. Once in a while you had a best-selling Wii game, usually made in-house and everything else was a platheora of PS3 games and XBox360 games. If you're trying to refute that then you're trying to refute that the sun rises and sets everyday.


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## KingVamp (Feb 2, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> who the fuck cares?! I j*ust want to play nintendo exclusives on the thing!*
> If I want the most amazing graphics, I will go and buy a Jaguar



Just wanted a reason to post that. 


mysticwaterfall said:


> I love how this supposed source takes what nintendo says and then says something completly unrelated to it. Sad what passes for news these days.  There really should be a rule against obvious troll topics.


 Not only that, he just assume that the other consoles would be ultra-powerful! 




machomuu said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't mind glasses 3D on handhelds, I can see it happening in the next Sony handheld.



I think batteries need to get better first. :/

I knew some troll was going to post this.
I like how it became a walk throught gaming history. Better than this garbage of a topic. 


*slow internet connection...


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## chyyran (Feb 2, 2012)

1Player said:


> > Nintendo has admitted that while its forthcoming Wii U game console will support high-definition graphics and will be rather powerful, it *will not be able to compete with the next-generation systems from Microsoft Corp. or Sony Corp. in terms of performance as they will be ultra-powerful.*



And I wonder how Nintendo has seen the next XBOX or the next PlayStation to be able to make such claims.
Pics or GTFO
When did Ninty "admit" this anyways? I'd like to see the Iwata Asks interview where they did.

This article is so full of trollshit that it makes me laugh.   
I now pronouce thee, [m]1Player[/m], the Anti-Valwin.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > It does not matter which console is more powerful than another its down to games and what you like to play, this argument should have been left in the playgrounds of the 80's. Nintendo for all their faults have proved time and time again they are good at what they do best and that is to write games, not graphical showcases. Look at most of the online top games lists on any of the big sites or in most multiformat magazines and you will see Nintendo take the majority of the top spots for their games.  Nintendo handhelds have never been the most powerful but they have always beaten out the competition in the long run. I have a lot of consoles in my house, out of them all, Nintendo consoles and the Dreamcast have the heart of the gamer, the rest do their job, but have never felt like pure gaming heaven. This is my opinion and everyones is different. This isnt news, its an excuse for a flame war of which there never will be any winnners.
> ...



Strangely enough the Atari 2600 games sell on Andorid and iPhone, so they are still standing the test of time and still make money. DS games still outsell many of the bigger console games and Mario games still sell in huge quantities. I have seen so many bad games and I can tell you there are just as many if not more on the 360 and PS3 than on the Wii. There are crap games on all formats. As for sales, it depends where you take your figures from. Here is sales from Japan for 2011
( http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/01/16/japan-39-s-best-selling-games-of-2011.aspx)
Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo): 1,160,169
Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo): 1,080,192
Monster Hunter 3G (Capcom): 985,498
Final Fantasy Type-0 (Square Enix): 746,203
Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Square Enix): 704,236
Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (Capcom): 682,651 (4,532,557)
Rhythm Heaven: 654,403
Tales of Xillia (Namco Bandai): 627,346
Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2 Professional (Square Enix): 602,664
Wii Sports Resort Wiimote Plus Pack (Nintendo):
I see plenty of Nintendo in there. The Wii and the (3)DS consoles have also outsold other consoles.

I really dont see what the problem is buy a console to play the games you want to play, its as simple as that.


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## Nah3DS (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> As I said earlier, unlike SNK, Atari no longer had the finances to support a console until it starts selling. They previously released numerous systems which flopped - their wallets were empty and they desperatly needed the money. SNK on the otherhand had 3rd party support, they could easily port arcade titles to their console and they had the money to keep it afloat.


3rd party support?!?! lol almost all the neo geo games were made by SNK! (get your facts right before posting )
you can say whatever you want about the Jaguar... but does not change the fact that it was a PIECE OF SHIT doomed from the start


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> I suppose you're right, but "Just Dance" is not your everyday type of game - it's a genre of its own.
> 
> What I had in mind was a proper platformer, shooter, puzzle game


Each one of those is also a different type of game and a different genre of its owns.

Youre basically saying, lets compare the apples, oranges and pears together and leave pineapples out of it.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> *Video*



That is the dumbest thing I've heard.

He's arguing that the Wii lacks games because western audiences want "pow-pow!" games, but at the same time, I don't remember the Wii being an FPS powerhouse. *checks his library* Nnnnope, just Conduit games, CoD, Red Steel and GoldenEye - the rest doesn't even warrant mentioning.

If you're trying to pass the argument that "games released for the system are the games that sell great" then be f*cking ready to support it with an actual games list. "Pow-Pow" games are in the great MINORITY of Wii titles because the Wii couldn't POSSIBLY pull them off like the PS3 and the 360 did.


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## heartgold (Feb 2, 2012)

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/

Holy fuck, pokemon r/b in the top 4 of all time o_o


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

NahuelDS said:


> 3rd party support?!?! lol almost all the neo geo games were made by SNK! (get your facts right before posting )


ADK, Aicom, Breezasoft, Data East, Eolith, Hudson Soft, Monolith, Nazca, Saurus, SunSoft, Visco. The fact that alot of games were made in-house doesn't mean that there was no 3rd party support.



heartgold said:


> Holy fuck, pokemon r/b in the top 4 of all time o_o


Reading is hard.

I'm pretty sure I said "3rd Party Wii Titles". Attempt at sarcasm = unsucessful.


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## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

Wrong thread...?


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## heartgold (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Holy fuck, pokemon r/b in the top 4 of all time o_o
> ...



I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm reading this list for the first time.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/
> 
> Holy fuck, pokemon r/b in the top 4 of all time o_o



Top 15 slots worldwide sales... all Nintendo, followed by a seven year old PS2 game then, five more nintendo games (34 out of the top 50 are Nintendo). THe other games like shooters may sell well across multiplatforms, but single out the platforms and compare console sales to console sales and the Nintendo consoles still hold their ground. Again, play what you like and like what you play.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> "Nintendo always does this".
> 
> Just like the Gamecube and N64. Underpowered pieces of shit.



Really, even though the Gamecube had an infinitely more powerful GPU and CPU than the PS2 (and was in fact nearly on par with the Xbox in terms of power)? There's more than enough evidence to prove that statement.  And as far the N64 goes, it was the most powerful console at the time, plus it was the first console to have a REAL 64-bit CPU (unlike those claiming the Jaguar to have a 64-bit CPU, which in fact only executed 32-bit instructions to the CPU and GPU), but the high latency RDRAM and the 64MB limit of the cartridges all but killed the N64.


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## AaronUzumaki (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Actually, the sun doesn't move. Instead, the Earth spins around it. So, no, the sun does NOT rise and set every day. Also, it is the first-party games and good exclusives that warrant a system's purchase. As of now, all consoles have plenty. PS3 - Uncharted (series), LittleBigPlanet (series), Infamous (series), God of War, etc. 360 - Alan Wake, Gears of War (series), Halo (series), etc. Wii - Super Smash Bros., Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Donkey Kong/Most 1st party games (series), Muramasa, Xenoblade, etc.

P.S. If I misinterpretid your post, ignore mine. I really just wanted to use the sun line.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > heartgold said:
> ...


Oh, alrighty then.

I know I'm over-exaggerating here, but I'm trying to get a very simple point across - the Wii was underpowered for its times and while the units sold great due to fantastic in-house games like Twillight Princess or Mario Galaxy, many 3rd party titles went by unnoticed which likely wouldn't be the case if they were capable of competing with their PS3/360 counterparts. The Wii simply wasn't able to keep up with the other two, dooming typically "action-y" games and games that required extensive and complicated rendering from the start, thus changing its entire library.

I'm a Wii owner and I'm happy for what it's worth, but I can't stop feeling that it's a bit lackluster in comparison - it could've been much greater. This is also why I'm SO excited for the WiiU.

I hope we can agree to this point.



funem said:


> Top 15 slots worldwide sales... all Nintendo, followed by a seven year old PS2 game then, five more nintendo games. THe other games like shooters may sell well across multiplatforms, but single out the platforms and compare console sales to console sales and the Nintendo consoles still hold their ground. Again, play what you like and like what you play.



All in-house games which I singled out in my argument, what you conviniently forgot.


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## KingVamp (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> KingVamp said:
> 
> 
> > *Video*
> ...


You watched it that a fast O_O.  
I don't think that his only comment nor main comment.
Not saying I completely agree or disagree with him, but I thought it was good enough to share.


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## heartgold (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



You are totally right, I'm not saying your point is wrong. It's bang on.

I'm looking forward to the Wii U as well. =)


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> You watched it that a fast O_O.



To be honest, first 5 minutes warranted not listening to this guy anymore. He just doesn't make a good point and I doubt that he ever would - he honestly believes that what the western audiences want are "more japanesey" games which "magically" is not mirrored in sales charts in any way.

I know I come across as a Nintendo hater - I started buying their consoles in Gameboy times and I only missed out on the N64 and the DSi, really. I love'em to bits. I'm just trying to be objective in my judgements, and... no offence to the Wii, its library is not exactly the Western Gamer's paradise.

How awesome would it be to play games like Fallout 3 or Bioshock on a Nintendo console? How great would it feel to drive not in Mario Kart 24/7, but perhaps in the lates NFS game? There's alot of titles like this that just "floated over" the Wii without a second glance due to technological constraints, and I don't want that scenario to repeat.

I'm extra-happy that the WiiU is, so far, "strong enough" and I hope it will pass the test of time.


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## chris888222 (Feb 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Guild McCommunist said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...


Aren't they testing virtual reality? That's heck awesome.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



I didnt forget, my point is each console sells on its own merits, to subdivide game types or genre to prove a point regarding one consoles dominance over another is futile as it only gives a portion of the argument. Each console has its own pros and cons, it has its good games and (more now than ever before) they all have their bad games. My points are based on the original post in this thread and my points are directed towards it. You buy a console to play games on, buy one that makes the games you want to play, its as simple as that.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> I didnt forget, my point is each console sells on its own merits, to subdivide game types or genre to prove a point regarding one consoles dominance over another is futile as it only gives a portion of the argument. Each console has its own pros and cons, it has its good games and (more now than ever before) they all have their bad games. My points are based on the original post in this thread and my points are directed towards it. You buy a console to play games on, buy one that makes the games you want to play, its as simple as that.


So as a Nintendo fan you don't find it unfair that the best-selling games on a Nintendo console always have to be Nintendo games and it doesn't particularily bother you that other consoles recieve multiplat games while Nintendo cosoles this generation recieved extremely watered-down ports (CoD) or "different games, programmed from scratch entirely" (Ghost Recon)?

It bothered me. Alot.


----------



## LightyKD (Feb 2, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> NahuelDS said:
> 
> 
> > who the fuck cares?! I j*ust want to play nintendo exclusives on the thing!*
> ...



He's sooo angry (The guy in the Youtube video)


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## Zarcon (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > I didnt forget, my point is each console sells on its own merits, to subdivide game types or genre to prove a point regarding one consoles dominance over another is futile as it only gives a portion of the argument. Each console has its own pros and cons, it has its good games and (more now than ever before) they all have their bad games. My points are based on the original post in this thread and my points are directed towards it. You buy a console to play games on, buy one that makes the games you want to play, its as simple as that.
> ...


I actually kind of like it personally. I know that the majority of the games for the Wii will be different from the other consoles.
I buy a Nintendo console for the Nintendo games. (Which, incidentally, are more than just Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokemon, they've picked up and assimilated a lot of developers over the years.)
If I wanted those multiplat games I'd also pick up a 360 or a PS3.
And the deciding factor between those would be...which PS3-only or 360-only games I prefered.
It's what makes each console unique that ends up being the deciding factor for me, not what each console can do the same of.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > I didnt forget, my point is each console sells on its own merits, to subdivide game types or genre to prove a point regarding one consoles dominance over another is futile as it only gives a portion of the argument. Each console has its own pros and cons, it has its good games and (more now than ever before) they all have their bad games. My points are based on the original post in this thread and my points are directed towards it. You buy a console to play games on, buy one that makes the games you want to play, its as simple as that.
> ...



Its been like that through the whole life of Nintendo Consoles as far as I can remember, its not as it it was a suprise. Thats why I have, and most people do, more than one console. There will always be games on any console that are for that console alone, its not like Little big planet will be on the 360 or the Wii or Halo will be on the PS3. Nintendo relies on their own IP more than the other two, I dont see that ever changing.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Zarcon said:


> I actually kind of like it personally. I know that the majority of the games for the Wii will be different from the other consoles.
> I buy a Nintendo console for the Nintendo games. (Which, incidentally, are more than just Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Pokemon, they've picked up and assimilated a lot of developers over the years.)
> If I wanted those multiplat games I'd also pick up a 360 or a PS3.
> And the deciding factor between those would be...which PS3-only or 360-only games I prefered.
> It's what makes each console unique that ends up being the deciding factor for me, not what each console can do the same of.


You unwillingly touch the point I'm clumsily trying to convey.

PS3 = PS3 exclusives + multiplats
360 = 360 exclusives + multiplats
Wii = Wii exclusives

...now do you see what I'm getting at?

When buying a Microsoft console, I know I'll probably get Halo, I know I'll get Gears. When getting a Sony one, I know I'll get God of War, I know I'll have the pleasure to play Patapon, I know I'll play Little Big Planet. On the Nintendo's equivalent I'll get Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. All have their specific titles, the difference is in access to multiplat titles, which the Wii simply didn't support.



funem said:


> Its been like that through the whole life of Nintendo Consoles as far as I can remember, its not as it it was a suprise. Thats why I have, and most people do, more than one console. There will always be games on any console that are for that console alone, its not like Little big planet will be on the 360 or the Wii or Halo will be on the PS3. Nintendo relies on their own IP more than the other two, I dont see that ever changing.


I know that and I greatly support having more then one, which is expressed by my PS1, 2, Dreamcast, the planned purchase of a PS3, my PSP.

Not my point, I'm on about multiplatform games that the Wii couldn't launch because it was behind the curve.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Zarcon said:
> 
> 
> > I actually kind of like it personally. I know that the majority of the games for the Wii will be different from the other consoles.
> ...


It appears as if Zarcon did get it and you are kind of reiterating what he said


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## Zarcon (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Zarcon said:
> 
> 
> > I actually kind of like it personally. I know that the majority of the games for the Wii will be different from the other consoles.
> ...


Yes, but I'm also getting things like Muramasa, the Trauma series, Rhythm Heaven (Soon), Endless Ocean, etc on top of the usual Nintendo exclusives.
They might not all be games that everyone likes, but they're all unique to the Wii.
That's my point anyway, the Wii gets a lot of different/exclusives just because they need to be that way since people can't just port games to it easily.
The Japanese software list is better too, but silly NoA doesn't want to localize a lot of games. Can't fault the console for that though.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> It appears as if Zarcon did get it and you are kind of reiterating what he said


What he essentially said was that when buying a Nintendo console you should be aware that to play multiplats you'll need to buy another console even if you're not interested in Microsoft or Sony games, which should not be the case.

*All 3 major players should offer the same multiplat experience* while giving you access to their home-baked software exclusively - that way everyone chooses the pie they like the most.

Is this really too much to ask?


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## chyyran (Feb 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/



Nice to see Good Ol' Duck Hunt up there 

[/back2topic]

I have 3 points to give

1. The 'Source' is claiming that the next XBOX/PS will be 'ultra-powerful' when only the bare details have been released. Obvious bias there.
2. Multi-Plats are not designed with the XBOX/PS specifically in mind. The 'water down' part is a generalization
3. Again, when, why, and how did Nintendo admit that the WiiU's hardware is shittier than a yet-to-be-revealed console?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Punyman said:


> heartgold said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/
> ...


I see that this list is thoroughly accurate.



> 1. Wii Sports
> (...)
> 5. Wii Sports Resort
> (...)
> 7. Wii Play



Indeed, the game of all time - a true blockbuster.

...it only sold this much because it was bundled with the system, they should probably add a disclaimer about it. Nobody in their right mind would buy this game as a full-feature with a normal pricetag.

EDIT: Added more games of all time. This list is a comedy that keeps on giving.


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## Snailface (Feb 2, 2012)

I'll be happy if the WiiU can do what the 360 can do now except at an honest 1080p. In other words, dat Zelda HD video. Drool.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > It appears as if Zarcon did get it and you are kind of reiterating what he said
> ...



Unless all kit was the same then this will not happen. This was tried before with the 3DO, it didnt work. Even now the multiplatform titles are not all the same across all platforms. One gives you extra content not avaialble on another console, different graphics quality and different control methods. They are never the same. I will give you that Wii ports are watered down even futher, in my opinion they shouldnt even bother in those cases where the game is so different, but as I said, thats not what I buy a Nintendo console for.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> Unless all kit was the same then this will not happen. This was tried before with the 3DO, it didnt work. Even now the multiplatform titles are not all the same across all platforms. One gives you extra content not avaialble on another console, different graphics quality and different control methods. They are never the same. I will give you that Wii ports are watered down even futher, in my opinion they shouldnt even bother in those cases where the game is so different, but as I said, thats not what I buy a Nintendo console for.



Those are just "unique features" that distinguish once console from another - the graphical differences aren't that apparent. As of today, multiplatform games *are* designed in SDK's that facilitate creating them for multiple platforms at the same time, it's just that each port is polished differently.

We're talking about the cream on the cake while we should talk about the meritum of the matter. Obviously Team Fortress 3 WiiU wouldn't support a Master Chief helmet while the 720 version won't give you a Mario hat, but those are "bonuses", not meaningful content.

When it comes to mission packs, for example Dragon Age missions DLC, they're all the same on all platforms.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> ...it only sold this much because it was bundled with the system, they should probably add a disclaimer about it. Nobody in their right mind would buy this game as a full-feature with a normal pricetag.


The disclaimer would then also apply to other games like Super Mario Bros. and Tetris.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> The  disclaimer would then also apply to other game like Super Mario Bros. and Tetris.


Tetris sold on multiple platforms, don't you rag on Tetris or people will eat you alive.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > The  disclaimer would then also apply to other game like Super Mario Bros. and Tetris.
> ...


Not ragging on Tetris by any means, but it WAS bundled with the original gameboy 										6							Tetris *GB* 
also, this number represents sales only on the gameboy, not across platforms


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...


To be perfectly honest, I believe that only games that sold on their own merit should be mentioned on the list, really. If the games were bundled on some platforms then those sales should be substracted from the total.


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## Zarcon (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> To be perfectly honest, I believe that only games that sold on their own merit should be mentioned on the list, really. If the games were bundled on some platforms then those sales should be substracted from the total.


That would get complicated since games get special bundles later on as well as during initial release.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Zarcon said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > To be perfectly honest, I believe that only games that sold on their own merit should be mentioned on the list, really. If the games were bundled on some platforms then those sales should be substracted from the total.
> ...


Nobody said it was eah-zeeey...
[yt]an-RGj46xPU[/yt]


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


I do agree to some point. But if we did that we also need to subtract all the sales for games that came with a controller or some other accessorie


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > Unless all kit was the same then this will not happen. This was tried before with the 3DO, it didnt work. Even now the multiplatform titles are not all the same across all platforms. One gives you extra content not avaialble on another console, different graphics quality and different control methods. They are never the same. I will give you that Wii ports are watered down even futher, in my opinion they shouldnt even bother in those cases where the game is so different, but as I said, thats not what I buy a Nintendo console for.
> ...



Playable levels and characters are becoming more console specific as downloadable content for one console only, sometimes this is timed and lasts only a certain amout of time like Skyrim content being XBOX 360 exclusive for 30 days, other times its beacuse more money has been paid and they remain exclusives which is not so much anymore, but it does happen. Sometimes games are released for a single console and then become multiplatform after the exclusive period has ended. its not just hats and helmets.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> I do agree to some point. But if we did that we also need to subtract all the sales for games that came with a controller or some other accessory



And why not? For example, people didn't buy "Wii Play" because of the game - they bought the WiiMote. They did buy Monster Hunter Tri though, and the Pro controller was just topping.

There are accessories bundled with games and games bundled with accesories, and it's not hard to distinguish the two.



funem said:


> Playable levels and characters are becoming more console specific as downloadable content for one console only, sometimes this is timed and lasts only a certain amout of time like Skyrim content being XBOX 360 exclusive for 30 days, other times its beacuse more money has been paid and they remain exclusives which is not so much anymore, but it does happen. Sometimes games are released for a single console and then become multiplatform after the exclusive period has ended. its not just hats and helmets.


I realize that - world ain't perfect. I'm not arguing againts a degree of exclusiveness, I argue againts making hardware inferior to the point that multiplats aren't even possible on it. How does that sound?


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Well, then we would see far less sales numbers for a game like Majora's Mask as it came bundle with the N64 expansion pack


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Well, then we would see far less sales numbers for a game like Majora's Mask as it came bundle with the N64 expansion pack


...because it required it to function properly. Game bundled with accessory, not the other way around. It sold on its own merit as a Zelda game.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree to some point. But if we did that we also need to subtract all the sales for games that came with a controller or some other accessory
> ...



What about 360 consoles sold with MW3 and Halo they would also count. PSP sold with copies of LBP, I can see the point you makebut it would be hard to do as you dont know if the console made the sale or the game sold the console, which should then count as a games sale.

I stick with my earlier argument re Nintendo games and multiplatform titles, I dont think anyone expects them to ever be fully multiplatform.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> What about 360 consoles sold with MW3 and Halo they would also count. PSP sold with copies of LBP, I can see the point you makebut it would be hard to do as you dont know if the console made the sale or the game sold the console, which should then count as a games sale.


C'mon - nobody buys a console bundled with the game specifically for the game. It's clearly a joint-sale, the middle ground. The buyer could opt for the console alone, but he did not. The buyer could opt for the game alone, but he did not. Both count as a "sale" then.

Even if it was an exclusive, the buyer could get the console before it was bundled with the title and purchase it separately, but that didn't happen either.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Well, then we would see far less sales numbers for a game like Majora's Mask as it came bundle with the N64 expansion pack
> ...


Wii Play doesnt require a wiimote to function properly?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...


It "doesn't" because a WiiMote is bundled with the system. You already "have one", you don't need the extra to play the game.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > What about 360 consoles sold with MW3 and Halo they would also count. PSP sold with copies of LBP, I can see the point you makebut it would be hard to do as you dont know if the console made the sale or the game sold the console, which should then count as a games sale.
> ...



I just bought RES Evil for the 3DS, mine came with the circle pad pro. I bought it for the game, as it was bundled with the pad for £29.99 thats a sale for the game as far as I can see.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > funem said:
> ...


See? You employ common sense and it works.

Not only that, is the circlepad even sold as a separate accessory?


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



Yes for £14.99 (bundle price was a steel)


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> Yes for £14.99 (bundle price was a steel)



I see... Never saw any Circlepads here that weren't bundled - good to know they're also available separately.

In any case, this is the "Monster Hunter + Pro Classic Controller" case - you buy the game and the add-on is just toppings.

In any case, I think the thread got sufficiently de-railed lol. Besides, it's about time for me to go offline, so yeah.

I just wanted to describe my take on this and show off my support towards the WiiU which in comparison to the Wii seems like a much more "lucrative" deal.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > Yes for £14.99 (bundle price was a steel)
> ...


Much like how I got Wii Play + a wiimote - mmmm extra toppings


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > Yes for £14.99 (bundle price was a steel)
> ...



http://www.wiiordie....k-plus-box-art/

http://www.amazon.co...28148366&sr=8-1

I think this argument has run its course, you buy a console for one reason, I buy it for another. You cant satisfy everyone, if you tried, one of us would end up disapointed.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > funem said:
> ...


I believe I made it clear that Wii Play did not sell on its own merit since it could just as well run without the bundled WiiMote as every console was bundled with one. In this case, it's WiiPlay that's the topping on the WiiMote. A topping of arguable flavour.


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## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


Who the fart are you to say Wii Play did not sell on it own merits. I for one did not buy it for the wiimote. I wanted to play that damn tank game and the wiimote on top was "just toppings"


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > gloweyjoey said:
> ...




Tetris sold the Gameboy, Brain training and Nintendogs sold the DS, in these cases (especially the last) the tail wagged the dog.

On that note I am off to bed. Night and have fun, on the console of your choice....


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Who the fart are you to say Wii Play did not sell on it own merits. I for one did not buy it for the wiimote. *I wanted to play that damn tank game* and the wiimote on top was "just toppings"


----------



## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

Zarcon said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Zarcon said:
> ...


That's exactly the reason I like the Wii so much.  While it doesn't have most of the games the PS3 and 360 do, it has the most [good] exclusives by far, and the games that it does share often have features, play styles, or stories that were not present in the original, often at the expense of various other facets.  Now, that's not to say it's the best system this generation (though it is my favorite of the 3), but it's certainly a major plus.  Plus, if you have a good computer and/or a PS3 or a 360, you get the best case scenario.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

machomuu said:


> That's exactly the reason I like the Wii so much.  While it doesn't have most of the games the PS3 and 360 do, it has the most [good] exclusives by far, and the games that it does share often have features, play styles, or stories that were not present in the original, often at the expense of various other facets.  Now, that's not to say it's the best system this generation (though it is my favorite of the 3), but it's certainly a major plus.  Plus, if you have a good computer and/or a PS3 or a 360, you get the best case scenario.


Oh, but who's stopping developers from adding those extra features on specific consoles? Who's to say "do not use the Kinect" on 360 games, who says "steer clear off the motion plus!" on the PS3, who said "don't use motion controls" on the Wii?

By all means, use all those "extras" each console provides, but be sensible about the hardware while at it. I'm by no means saying "all multiplats should be the same", I'm saying that each should be available on the console of the three big players, so that when it all goes down to the "choice" people will buy those consoles and those versions that appeal to them the most - including the exclusive features (except things like mission DLC, which I believe should be the same for all 3) and including the in-house titles.

I'm not saying that Wii games are bad - I'm saying that the Wii didn't sufficiently facilitate game development. It was a generation behind for crying out loud.


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## machomuu (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> machomuu said:
> 
> 
> > That's exactly the reason I like the Wii so much.  While it doesn't have most of the games the PS3 and 360 do, it has the most [good] exclusives by far, and the games that it does share often have features, play styles, or stories that were not present in the original, often at the expense of various other facets.  Now, that's not to say it's the best system this generation (though it is my favorite of the 3), but it's certainly a major plus.  Plus, if you have a good computer and/or a PS3 or a 360, you get the best case scenario.
> ...


I wasn't countering your argument, just making a statement.  That said, I think that even though the Wii was under-powered, it gave people a reason to buy a 2nd system besides the 360 or the PS3.


----------



## gloweyjoey (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> gloweyjoey said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...


So if every console was bundled with one and you can buy it seperately for cheaper, why would they have shelled out the extra $10 for this topping that arguable doesnt have any merit to sell itself. If i didnt want the game i would have just bought the wiimote for cheaper. You are looking at in a sense that everyone that bought it was only interested in purchasing it because they were in the market for a new wiimote.

I do get your point, that monster hunter is gonna sell well regardless of a bundle, and wiiplay likely would not have seen so many sales if it wasnt bundle with a wiimote(especially at $40) My point being, it would be silly to qualify one piece of software with a disclaimer because it was bundled and not qualify another piece of software that sold in a bundle purely on someones opinion on wether that software merits that spot it holds.


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## Centrix (Feb 2, 2012)

1Player said:


> > Nintendo has admitted that while its forthcoming Wii U game console will support high-definition graphics and will be rather powerful, it will not be able to compete with the next-generation systems from Microsoft Corp. or Sony Corp. in terms of performance as they will be ultra-powerful. Instead, Nintendo calls its approach balanced as it features both improvements and exclusive technologies.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As of now this is just a rumor Nintendo has not confirmed this nor do we know for sure, every developer seems to think the Wii U or whatever its gonna be called will be one hell of a power house and to be fair I really don't see much difference in terms of graphics between 3DS and Vita, hell the 3DS is one hell of a system in terms of graphics and developers are only going to push it further...we already learned that Vita isn't as powerful as Sony hyped it to be nor will sport PS3 graphics...as far as I can tell 3DS and Vita are fairly close in terms of graphics...and seriously who cares just give great games awesome stories and bitching as controls and we have are winner


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## Midna (Feb 2, 2012)

Nobody reply to Centrix. His post doesn't deserve it.


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## ShadowSoldier (Feb 2, 2012)

Biggest. Troll. Article EVAR.

You know what, someone translate that page in the source's source. I wonder if it's even real.

Also, gamers these days have become the biggest whiney bitches ever. I'm ashamed to be known as a gamer nowadays. "console iznt besterz?! NU BUY!" What a joke gamers have become.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Midna said:


> Nobody reply to Centrix. His post doesn't deserve it.


I shall reply regardless, as ignorance is something I am allergic to.


Centrix said:


> to be fair I really don't see much difference in terms of graphics between 3DS and Vita, hell the 3DS is one hell of a system in terms of graphics and developers are only going to push it further...(...)as far as I can tell 3DS and Vita are fairly close in terms of graphics...


http://andriasang.com/comz54/f1_2011_vita_3ds/
>I don't see any differences either.



> we already learned that Vita isn't as powerful as Sony hyped it to be nor will sport PS3 graphics...


[yt]cM280rOq78k[/yt]

>Horrible graphics!


----------



## Midna (Feb 2, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Biggest. Troll. Article EVAR.
> 
> You know what, someone translate that page in the source's source. I wonder if it's even real.
> 
> Also, gamers these days have become the biggest whiney bitches ever. I'm ashamed to be known as a gamer nowadays. "console iznt besterz?! NU BUY!" What a joke gamers have become.


I was about to tell you off for not reading the article.
Then I read the article.

It's some selective quotes from the Nintendo Q&A. Unfortunately the quotes do not support the content of the article. Nowhere does Iwata-san say anything about the Wii U being less powerful than anything. Hell, the specs for the PS4 and NextBox aren't even revealed yet. These are the quotes they used:


> There are a variety of different ways to show the unique appeal of software. What’s important here is not to narrow down what we can do. Rather, we have to create the dynamic range of appeals that the consumers can appreciate. We decided to make a proposal of an additional screen into the Wii U controller because developers could think of a variety of different possibilities here and there of using both a big TV screen and a screen in a player’s hand,





> We are aiming to make a system which shall not be forced into competing with the others where the contenders can fight only with massive developer resources and long development times as their weapons. Having said that, however, as I mentioned, it is true that, in some software areas, we need to be engaged in the power games. Take The Legend of Zelda franchise, for example, the fans must be looking for the graphic representations that they do not see as cheap at all when the title is released for the Wii U,


All Iwata-san is saying is that they're using the controller to rise above the competition. He doesn't mention shit about the actual power of the system. In fact, he says that they're going to give everything they can into making Zelda U graphically impressive.

This article is a perfect example of bad journalism. Player1 is a good example of someone who only reads the title of the news he posts and doesn't check sources.


Edit: The GBAtemp text editor actually has the better greentext colours, foxi. Like this. More of an olive green, really.


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 2, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> "console iznt besterz?! NU BUY!" What a joke gamers have become.


those PEOPLE who act like that are not true gamers they are simply known as gfx whores 

and when the ps4, nextbox whatever the fuck their called do finally come out i'm going to be laugning my guts out at all the gfx whores when they realize their precious gfx are not going to be any different than they are now


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## FireGrey (Feb 2, 2012)

I really hate the fake rumors like this that get everyone worked up.
We all know that the Wii U is likely not going to be as powerful as the Nextbox and PS4, but it still will have A LOT of power.
The only bad thing this means is that there will be slightly watered down ports, but graphics wont be a big difference between the 3 consoles, try look heavily at difference from a PC game and 360/PS3 game, not much eh?
Oh and i rather not have ports, If i wanted those games I would just get another console for that.


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## prowler (Feb 2, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> try look heavily at difference from a PC game and 360/PS3 game, not much eh?


have you played an AAA title that's on both pc and console?


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## Deleted User (Feb 2, 2012)

I like how people don't understand that even the next gen of gaming consoles are still worst than pcs from 2 years ago.

Graphics don't make a game good, they only enhance the eye candy.


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## FireGrey (Feb 2, 2012)

prowler_ said:


> FireGrey said:
> 
> 
> > try look heavily at difference from a PC game and 360/PS3 game, not much eh?
> ...


Yes and the difference isn't that big, maybe difference in textures and lighting but they aren't major.


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## lostdwarf (Feb 2, 2012)

I will NEVER buy a console or PC because of the graphics it can produce.
I bought my PC because it has a LOT of RAM and runs stable for my music creation.
I buy games consoles PURELY for games,games and more games.

I will likely buy a WiiU after a year on market purely because a lot of great games will be out on it. And they will be cheap, top quality, FUN.

If I wanted to waste my money and have my gaming experience controlled from purchase to resale I will buy from Sony or Microsoft.

Never do graphics come into it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

lostdwarf said:


> I will NEVER buy a console or PC because of the graphics it can produce.
> I bought my PC because it has a LOT of RAM and runs stable for my music creation.
> I buy games consoles PURELY for games,games and more games.
> 
> ...



How exactly do Sony or Microsoft "control" you from purchase to resale?

I also buy consoles for great games, which is why I bought a Xbox 360.


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## chartube12 (Feb 2, 2012)

gloweyjoey said:


> Theyre going to be too busy porting PS3 and XBox 360 games...



This is the most logical problem I fear the WiiU is going to have. Why would I want to buy a system for games I can already get on my PS3 and Xbox 360? Don't be fooled. Nintendo is playing catch up with the WiiU. I doubt devs will bother adding new and meaningful content to the ports to make buying them again or buying them for the wiiu instead to be worth it. Next Gen I'm only buy one console, Unless Nintendo does something big to surprise me, it will not be the WiiU


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## Bladexdsl (Feb 2, 2012)

FireGrey said:


> prowler_ said:
> 
> 
> > FireGrey said:
> ...


in sonic generations it was


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

chartube12 said:


> This is the most logical problem I fear the WiiU is going to have. Why would I want to buy a system for games I can already get on my PS3 and Xbox 360? Don't be fooled. Nintendo is playing catch up with the WiiU. I doubt devs will bother adding new and meaningful content to the ports to make buying them again or buying them for the wiiu instead to be worth it. Next Gen I'm only buy one console, Unless Nintendo does something big to surprise me, it will not be the WiiU


*Pokemon HD.*

_*An army of Poken00bs storms my room waving their wallets*_ "WHERE?!?!"

*sigh* >>;

_*later that night, watching the news*_

"The sales of WiiU exceeded the original sales expectations of a *zillion-kajizillion-bazzilion* units on day 1 due to the release of *Pokemon *HD, *Zelda *HD and *Mario *HD. All those are yet *another* installments of *the exact same games* they always were and always will be. Iwata had this to say:"



> "We're cool. Oh, Metroid fans? Suck it."



"This was The News From The World, Good Night."


----------



## chris888222 (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> chartube12 said:
> 
> 
> > This is the most logical problem I fear the WiiU is going to have. Why would I want to buy a system for games I can already get on my PS3 and Xbox 360? Don't be fooled. Nintendo is playing catch up with the WiiU. I doubt devs will bother adding new and meaningful content to the ports to make buying them again or buying them for the wiiu instead to be worth it. Next Gen I'm only buy one console, Unless Nintendo does something big to surprise me, it will not be the WiiU
> ...


I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what... 

Anyway, the Wii U will definitely have some third party exclusive titles. Most of the 'ports' will probably also make use of the screen for certain functions such as maps, items etc. just like how it's done on the 3DS. The full online structure has yet to be revealed, so I say wait till E3 before starting further criticism. 

Of course, if you diss that fat fuck controller, you can always use a wiimote or a classic controller which has dual analog sticks.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

chris888222 said:


> I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or what...


By no means. I like the WiiU's concept. I was just saying that it's a fail-proof boat that will sell the moment they release either of those titles and will become more popular then oxygen the day all three are released.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that if the PS4 was bundled with ethernal salvation and the NextBox was bundled with 100 virgins of your choice, Sony and Microsoft would reach about half the sales of the WiiU.


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## Vigilante (Feb 2, 2012)

It is Nintendo's trend to always be behind its competitors which are Sony and Microsoft but I still like how Nintendo values gameplay than graphics.So lesson:its not all about graphics.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Vigilante said:


> It is Nintendo's trend to always be behind its competitors which are Sony and Microsoft but I still like how Nintendo values gameplay than graphics.So lesson:its not all about graphics.


Oh my goodness, another one.

Nintendo can't CPR their consoles with first party games till the end of time - they need proper third party support, and for that, they need Dev Bait. No better Dev Bait then good specs, homie.


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Vigilante said:


> It is Nintendo's trend to always be behind its competitors which are Sony and Microsoft but I still like how Nintendo values gameplay than graphics.So lesson:its not all about graphics.



i think their trends is making consoles that sell via new ways to play


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## Skyzoboy (Feb 2, 2012)

Bladexdsl said:


> FireGrey said:
> 
> 
> > prowler_ said:
> ...



Or Batman Arkham City, Rage, Witcher 2 or GTA 4 with mods ... PC Games are graphically better than next gen console since ... one year after xbox360 release date (IMHO)


----------



## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> > It is Nintendo's trend to always be behind its competitors which are Sony and Microsoft but I still like how Nintendo values gameplay than graphics.So lesson:its not all about graphics.
> ...


Yeah, right. Like the SNES. Or the Gameboy. Or the N64. Or the Gamecube...

The only "innovative" things they released so-far were the sucky Power Glove and the WiiMote. That, and maybe the analog stick on the N64, but that was somewhat inevitable anyways.


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## Ace Overclocked (Feb 2, 2012)

do people care about that anymore?


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Vigilante said:
> ...



Snes continue the trend of home consoles after the video game crash 

n64 first 64bit console  also the first console to do 3D right

gameboy show the GOOD mobile gaming was posssible

good luck trying to water down nintendo


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Snes continue the trend of home consoles after the video game crash
> 
> n64 first 64bit console  also the first console to do 3D right
> 
> ...


Neither of these products was innovative though. The Gameboy was not the only portable system at that time - its popularity was based off it's affordability. The N64, while being the first "true" 64-bit console it was plagued by design flaws, starting with low RAM which bottlenecked the system, ending on the unfortunate choice of cartridges as the medium. If anything, it was a bad design. The SNES was released WAY, WAY after the crash, it had nothing to do with it and in fact, the rivalry between the SNES and the Genesis was never really "resolved" with a clear winner.

If you want to pass the argument that Nintendo64 was in some way, I can say that the Sega Saturn was in fact *more* revolutionary as it introduced Dual CPU's and Dual GPU units, which alongside the sound processing unit ammounted to 5 co-operating cores. Pretty effin' beefy for the time, just not "utilized right".

Good luck making Nintendo look like Game Gods. They did the NES, they marketed it "right" (aka, not as a console) and they were lucky. That's that.


----------



## AlanJohn (Feb 2, 2012)

I think its been proven dozens upon dozens of times that software > hardware.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> genesis vs Snes was resolve Snes won look who characters now from time to time appear in Nintendo consoles


We only posess rough estimates of sales of both consoles and infact it's not that much of a difference, so no, neither really "won", they went head to head throught their life cycle.

IN FACT, the Genesis is still sold in its re-modeled forms to this day on some markets. Endorsed by Sega. Because it's an awesome machine.

I don't see why "characters" decide about the past successes of a given company - SEGA dropped out of the arms race simply because they chose to do what they do best - video games. I'm not describing Nintendo as a "shit" company, what I'm arguing againts is treating them as some sort of gaming diety. They aren't always right and they don't always do things the right way. Nintendo makes mistakes aswell - the Power Glove was shit, the N64 was a flop, the GameCube brought barely any profits due to being released late and having stupidly small discs for the time, the Wii is as backwards when it comes to hardware as it gets. That's that. You can't argue with those. Period.

And I ALREADY know what you're going to say to supposedly counter these arguments. The only things Nintendo fanboys are capable of uttering in situations when they are faced by cold facts.

"But Innovation", "But Mario", "But Pokemon". The world doesn't revolve around either of those.

EDIT: There was no need to remove Valwin's post - it takes much, much more effort to properly annoy me.


----------



## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > genesis vs Snes was resolve Snes won look who characters now from time to time appear in Nintendo consoles
> ...



 o foxi4 either you dint live at that time
it was all Mario vs sonic at the time and look who appears in nintendo consoles now XD


also il take a n64 game over a Ps1 game any day


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> o foxi4 either you dint live at that time
> it was all Mario vs sonic at the time and look who appears in nintendo consoles now XD
> 
> 
> also il take a n64 game over a Ps1 game any day


I don't know where YOU lived at the time, but likely under a rock if you're so 100% certain about the SNES's domination. Good for you if you choose N64 games, I never said the system didn't have any good ones - I said it was badly designed. That said, I'm sure those 102 million people who purchased the PlayStation instead of the N64 beg to differ.

As I said, characters have nothing to do with this whatsoever, you're pulling the "I don't know what to say, really" card, which is... sort of sad, actually.

If you haven't noticed, Sega releases Sonic games not only on Nintendo platforms - they're releasing them on all available platforms. They completely shifted from a hardware to a software-only company, how is it hard to comperhend?


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > o foxi4 either you dint live at that time
> ...



you dint live at time so you would never understand

also is the ps3 a flop? seem how the wii sold more that him and shit


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> you dint live at time so you would never understand
> 
> also is the ps3 a flop? seem how the wii sold more that him and shit


You don't seem to understand the severity of your claim. The Wii indeed sold twice the units of the PS3, however, the PlayStation sold *three* times the units of the N64 and the PS2 sold *six* times the units of the Gamecube. That said, the PS3 is *still* selling roughly 30.000 units weekly and isn't going to stop anytime soon. That's why those are considered "flops" while the PS3 takes its rightful and respectable 2nd place.

Also, were you that lazy as to not even check my birth date? I was about 3 when the SNES came out in Europe, I GREW UP watching the struggle, I know exactly what I'm talking about while you're talking out of your ass. "You wouldn't understand" is not an argument, it's being Emo.


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > you dint live at time so you would never understand
> ...




but you say the N64 and gamecube are flops cuz of sales  @[email protected] how what you just say answer my question ?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> but you say the N64 and gamecube are flops cuz of sales  @[email protected] how what you just say answer my question ?


It's like you're not even reading. The N64 sold three times less units and dropped out, the GameCube sold 6 times less units and died before it even started while the PS3 sold less then the Wii, however more then the XBox360. You do understand what that means, basically?


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > but you say the N64 and gamecube are flops cuz of sales  @[email protected] how what you just say answer my question ?
> ...




@[email protected] the n64 drop out ? wen did that happen link me NOw must know


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## Vigilante (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4=Sony/Microsoft fanboy.
Valwin=Nintendo fanboy.

So please stop the fanboy wars.
You don't need to start a war just show your fanboyism.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> @[email protected] the n64 drop out ? wen did that happen link me NOw must know





> The console was first released in Japan on June 23, 1996. (...) The North American version of the Nintendo 64 officially launched on September 29, 1996 with 500,000 units sold in the first four months, while the PAL version was released in Europe on March 1, 1997. As of December 31, 2009, the N64 had sold 5.54 million units in Japan, 20.63 million in the Americas, and 6.75 million in other regions, for a total of 32.93 million units.Benimaru Itō, a developer for EarthBound 64 and friend of Shigeru Miyamoto, speculated in 1997 that the N64′s lower popularity in Japan was due to the lack of Role-Playing Games. Because of the cost of Nintendo 64 cartridges, and limited third-party support, the Nintendo 64 caused Nintendo to lose its leading position in its market share. (...) The last game released for the system was Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 in early 2002. The system lasted aprox. 5 years. The PlayStation's last game was Yetisports WorldTour!, released in April 2005.



This effectively means that the PlayStation was still recieving support 4 years after the GameCube was released, 5 years after the PS2 entered the market.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Vigilante said:


> Foxi4=Sony/Microsoft fanboy.
> Valwin=Nintendo fanboy.
> 
> So please stop the fanboy wars.
> You don't need to start a war just show your fanboyism.





Spoiler












If you are incapable of criticizing a company you support for all the batshit stupid things they do and support whatever dumb ideas they try to pull off without thinking objectively, you're not a real fan. You're just an enabler of stupid. Criticizms gives birth to improvements. Nodding gives neck aches.

Valid arguments that are entirely true and based on facts are not fanboyism. Don't be a self-proclaimed moderator - we have professional ones here. Valwin's wrong about many things - plain and simple. I know I won't convince him - he's a fanboy, completely unpersuadable. I can toy around though to my heart's delight.

You dare accuse me of Fanboyism? You just failed, so hard that I heard the thump even here.


Total Nintendo Hater.


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## gameandmatch (Feb 2, 2012)

Vigilante said:


> Foxi4=Sony/Microsoft fanboy.
> Valwin=Nintendo fanboy.
> 
> So please stop the fanboy wars.
> You don't need to start a war just show your fanboyism.



This is what you consider a fanboy war? Dear god, I feel sorry for you when you see a real one.


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## chris888222 (Feb 2, 2012)

Vigilante said:


> Foxi4=Neutral Gamer
> Valwin=Nintendo fanboy.
> 
> So please stop the fanboy wars.
> You don't need to start a war just show your fanboyism.


Fixed.

Heck, @Foxi4 programs for the DS as a hobby! D:


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## heartgold (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4, when are you adding a 3DS to that collection?


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## NeoGohan (Feb 2, 2012)

Zeroneo said:


> *sigh* This is false. The author of this article simply selected some things from the Nintendo Q&A and ignored the others. What Iwata talks about is that Nintendo *games* won't be like the ones in other consoles, as in they all won't take years and years to develop. Modern game journalism at it's finest.



^This


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## Coto (Feb 2, 2012)

LoL I see Foxi4 just as mysef:

Neutral, and fanboy hater. Good collection over there too. I had the very same collection except an original Game Boy, a GBA SP, and a Nintendo 64 I modded to output S-Video directly

-

Also, the Wii arquitecture was nice even if underpowered. I bet Wii U will have all the power required to enjoy games at its best.


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## Midna (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4=Sony/Microsoft fanboy.
> ...


[  ] Not Told
[X] Told
[X] Star Wars The Told Republic


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > @[email protected] the n64 drop out ? wen did that happen link me NOw must know
> ...




but were does it say the n64 drop out ???????


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

heartgold said:


> Foxi4, when are you adding a 3DS to that collection?


When they release an improved version that doesn't suffer from suicidal screens. I'm also hoping for better battery life and an improved angle of the 3D effect, as the current one "works" for me only half-way down the scale. That, and perhaps an included second analog, as I don't particularily entertain the idea of using a CirclePad Pro, although that's probably a dream never to come true.

Actually, I was contemplating on getting a Gameboy Pocket and the DS Phat just for shits and giggles - I like collecting consoles. The photo only contained Nintendo consoles, and only the ones I had "nearby". I didn't feel the urgent need to go down to the basement, pull out my Famiclone (original NES systems were never available in Poland) and my mega-stack of games.


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## Eerpow (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Valwin said:
> 
> 
> > Vigilante said:
> ...



Umm no... I'll write a list.

D-pad
portable games
controller handles
4 face buttons
rumble
shoulder buttons
analog triggers
analog stick
four player multiplayer
portable/console communication
touch control
motion control

plus more, but mostly unsuccessful though.

That's just control options, many of their games have also been innovative in gamplay mechanics.

Donkey Kong - platforming
Punch Out - reflex based puzzle game
Metroid - exploration
Famicom wars - chess like strategy
Super Mario 64 - 3D space platformer with camera controls
DK Jungle Beat - combo based platforming
.....
(correct me if I'm wrong about something)

My point is that there's plenty of innovation within both companies. End of story.



And by the way, who cares if Y sold X times more than Z,
the majority of people are dumb and many buys games based on how cheap or how "casual"/"hardcore" they are.


Remember, there's two types of dumb consumers
people that buys cheap "casual" stuff like Wii fit and people who buys "hardcore" stuff like COD because their friends play it.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> D-pad


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## Ssx9 (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Eerpow said:
> 
> 
> > D-pad


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Ssx9 said:


> I think he meant Shoulder buttons or Z-trigger, since Nintendo doesn't have any console or portable with analog triggers. Not sure.


He mentioned shoulder buttons and the Gamecube has analog triggers.


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## Coto (Feb 2, 2012)

The problem I find now is, videogame developers have been exhausting resources through their products, and the latest technologies'd carry mainly "_gimmicks_", as improved controls, touchscreen, internet connectivity, a dedicated OS per console had been developed 10+ years ago.

In other words, a N64, maybe a DreamCast, a PS2, a DS, 3DS maybe would carry a great amount in variety of games, and peripheral based on different gameplay.

See, the gameplay wouldn't be the same under newer hardware (not specs, but physical hardware itself), ie: Trauma Center series, rhythm based games, (rhythm tengoku on DS).

Now all I can expect now:

3D images as 2011 being a technology developed daily, or find a more sophisticated way to get human gesture controls (human body devices, brain readers, etc),

but I doubt we could expect "that much technology innovation" we've been experiencing since '90s to.. what, 2006?


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## Eerpow (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Eerpow said:
> 
> 
> > D-pad


----------



## DeMoN (Feb 2, 2012)

At least Nintendo has an excuse this time, as the Wii U will be released long before the next gen XBOX or Playstation.  I really was not expecting it to be more advanced either way though.


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## nando (Feb 2, 2012)

i really don't care as long as it has enough pixels to fill my tv screen. no more blurry games.


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## Requios (Feb 2, 2012)

So, why does this matter exactly? Even if Nintendo's system will be less powerful, that doesn't mean that there won't be good games for it. And it's been said that the more complex a system's processing and video power is, the greater the time and cost it takes for game development. In this sense, it all balances out. Game companies were, and still are, griping about how difficult it is to develop games for the PS3. And besides, the most unique graphical improvement that Microsoft and Sony can provide it tessellation, which already exists in PC gaming. If people want to wine and complain about graphics, then don't even bother with consoles. You can still get all your CODs and BFs on PC, still play with a 360 controller, have better graphics, have good sounds, etc. The only real difference any of this comes down to is games. Granted I don't have much faith in Nintendo's 3rd party support for the Wii U, either. But Nintendo is still capable of producing their own share of great games. And if they do start losing out to other consoles so horribly that the Wii U becomes the next Dreamcast, well, at least Nintendo can still give us great software in the future and then nobody will have to wine about Nintendo's next system in the future.


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## KingVamp (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Total Nintendo Hater.


Yes, you are just covering up./jk

XP


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> -snip!-



Nice finds! Trust me, there were more 3D platformers then just this one, SM64 wasn't the only one and that was the only point I was trying to make. As far as "Metroidvania" is concerned, I'm pretty sure I've seen that level scheme before somewhere, but I can't quite put my finger on it right now. Nevertheless, I never said Nintendo isn't a creative force in the industry - it is a massive one. It's just that I don't like attributing "all that is good" to Nintendo and "all that is bad" to everybody else because that's blasphemy, and some users here, not necessarily you, do think so.


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## Eerpow (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Eerpow said:
> 
> 
> > -snip!-
> ...



Yeah like..


Spoiler



you didn't need to open this, you already know who...


 !

sorry for being off topic


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

Gonna kinda go on an off topic tangent here but the Wii U would be nice for Zangeki no Reginleiv.

The game was pretty fun on the Wii but it became laggy as shit when the limbs started flying. A proper port/remake for the Wii U could probably handle the gore and stuff without any framerate issues... Plus a chance at localization would be cool. Also touch screen controls for directional hacking wouldn't be too bad either.

So that's at least one pro on my Wii U list, happy everyone?


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## Zarcon (Feb 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Also touch screen controls for directional hacking wouldn't be too bad either.


Different kind of hacking here, but it would be neat for hacking mini games in things like Mass Effect and Deus Ex to show up on the tablet.
Then you could directly interact using the touchscreen while the actual game time could continue flowing.
You'd be able to keep an eye on your surroundings and quickly abort if someone was about to catch you hacking or something.

I'm sure if a game dev puts enough time aside to think of creative uses we'll see some really neat games.
And tech wise, graphics aren't going to get THAT much better.
Limitations force creativity anyway. If I wanted super awesome realism I'd just look out the window.


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## sjones900 (Feb 2, 2012)

There is logic behind why they never go for the best hardware. Remember back when the 360 and PS3 we're new they both had hardware failures at launch what we now refer to as RROD and YLOD. Nintendo used older hardware that had been revised and improved so they had less issues. They make more money by selling cheaper hardware at a price point and on top of that they don't have to hire as many repair workers. So ultimately they win. It's kind of scheme really, but it works and the public just eats it up. How do they know it's gonna be hit they do tests on the public by releasing things to see how the public will accept. The DSi for example was really just a test to see how the public would like DLC on a handheld. It was well received so they went ahead with plans for the 3DS. The Wii in that sense is a test to see how well the public would have accepted motion controls. Obviously it was a success much bigger than they thought it would be. The Wii U will undoubtedly be a success.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

sjones900 said:


> There is logic behind why they never go for the best hardware. Remember back when the 360 and PS3 we're new they both had hardware failures at launch what we now refer to as RROD and YLOD. Nintendo used older hardware that had been revised and improved so they had less issues. They make more money by selling cheaper hardware at a price point and on top of that they don't have to hire as many repair workers. So ultimately they win. It's kind of scheme really, but it works and the public just eats it up. How do they know it's gonna be hit they do tests on the public by releasing things to see how the public will accept. The DSi for example was really just a test to see how the public would like DLC on a handheld. It was well received so they went ahead with plans for the 3DS. The Wii in that sense is a test to see how well the public would have accepted motion controls. Obviously it was a success much bigger than they thought it would be. The Wii U will undoubtedly be a success.



Just FYI I'm pretty sure the rate for YLoD in PS3s was/is like less than 1%. Like I thought it was .7%. Xbox 360's had much larger RRoD numbers but it's been fixed for a while now, from Jasper original Xbox models and for all Slim models as well I thought. I definitely wouldn't say hardware failure was what kept them out of the market, they just realized for what their target audience was, they didn't need good graphics to appeal to them.

I definitely wouldn't say they "ultimately won". It was a definite trade off, having a cheaper console with lesser graphics. They lost a shit ton of multiplats, excellent multiplats at that. They got some but they were usually downgraded ports that definitely couldn't hold a candle to their HD big brothers. Plus graphics are definitely a selling point of a console. When I buy something new I'd like the graphics to look new, buying a new console and having games look like they did ten years ago is ridiculous when tech exists to make them look so much better. Let's not forget that more power equates to advantages like farther render distances, less lag when shit starts flying, and more objects on screen. Pretty much any modern open world game would only be a shell of itself on last gen tech, not to mention games that are incredibly intensive on the "objects on screen" part like Dead Rising. I'm sure everyone remembers the mockery of Chop Till You Drop.

Yes, their cheaper console won them over in sales but it definitely didn't please fans as much as the Gamecube did. While the Gamecube sold poorly many fans will still argue about how great the library was in general, from first parties to third parties (including multiplats).


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Just passing....
N64 first true 64bit regardless of its performance, at the time it was cutting edge Zelda and Mario 64 are still held in high regard, hindsight is a wonderful thing
GameCube had the first true wireless controller in the Wavebird
Nintendo Created the platformer with Donkey Kong
First female playable human character was in Metroid I believe
Nintendo invented the rumble pack, Sony released a rumble in their controller afterwards they were not first and it wasn’t a draw. If it was I could come second in a race by hours and still tie for first place.
Nintendo created the playable Avatar concept with Mii's
Z targeting in Zelda has been copied to death on most games now
Nintendo created the D pad used today and have a patent on the design,
Battery saves on games so you don’t have to start from the beginning or key in a stupid codes.
Kart racing with powerups in MarioKart, since then it has been copied by everyone
Zelda and Mario64 proved you could play games properly in three dimensions
Nintendo also has the only IP I have seen stand the test of time and has a huge number of recognisable characters and games to call on
They revolutionised the games controller, all other designs on other consoles have their roots in the ones designed by Nintendo.
I believe though Nintendo sales were less than Microsoft and Sony with their consoles (Pre-Wii) they made more money than the others as Sony and Microsoft sold consoles at a loss and Nintendo always made a profit. Edit, just found this







Because they are a games company, that is their main focus and drive. That is why there will always be a Nintendo console in my house and no doubt most peoples. I don’t want graphics over gameplay, I don’t want a console that can play everything the others can play, I want variety. Its like saying all TV’s should be 1080p so they all show the same pictures, all DVD players should be Blu-Ray to play the same as all the other players, all phones should be able to play the same content and function the same so others don’t feel left out for buying a different model. I said it before and I will say it again, it’s a flawed argument. Nintendo make a games console that plays games, you want the best of everything in one box, Its not going to happen, even with Sony and Microsoft.

I am not a Nintendo fanboy  I own :-

N64, Wii, Gamecube, SNES, Xbox, 360, PS2 GBA, GBA Micro, DS, DSi, DS Lite, Dreamcast, Genesis, 3DS, PSP, Android Phone, Android Tablet and an Ipod

Finally Nintendo have Shigeru Miyamoto, that is all good night


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Wow, wow, wow - funem, you're going extra far with your assumptions. Racing with power-ups, albeit from a bird's eye view was present on earlier consoles, so was the d-pad. Platform games may have been perfected by Nintendo, but they did not invent them by no means. etc. etc. Still, they are quite the force of innovation on the market.


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## AlanWeird (Feb 2, 2012)

Um... Most sites are saying the new xbox is 6 or 8 times more powerful than the 360. The same sites are saying the new nintendo is 6 times more powerful than the 360. The difference will either be non existant, or negligable.

Either way, I don't give a toss. I'm never buying a microsoft console again. They turned rareware into their official Nintendo-imitation dept. The only reason I bought a 360 in the beginning was for kameo!! I wanted Rareware games. And now I realise, far too late, that rareware aren't rareware anymore. They're like activision, or atari. There by name and licences held. Nothing more.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

AlanWeird said:


> Um... Most sites are saying the new xbox is 6 or 8 times more powerful than the 360. The same sites are saying the new nintendo is 6 times more powerful than the 360. The difference will either be non existant, or negligable.



You realize that neither is true nor possible? Those are just happy happy joy joy songs.


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## Valwin (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Wow, wow, wow - funem, you're going extra far with your assumptions. Racing with power-ups, albeit from a bird's eye view was present on earlier consoles, so was the d-pad. Platform games may have been perfected by Nintendo, but they did not invent them by no means. etc. etc. Still, they are quite the force of innovation on the market.




whut cant handle it ?


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Wow, wow, wow - funem, you're going extra far with your assumptions. Racing with power-ups, albeit from a bird's eye view was present on earlier consoles, so was the d-pad. Platform games may have been perfected by Nintendo, but they did not invent them by no means. etc. etc. Still, they are quite the force of innovation on the market.



I said Kart racing and this is what has been copied, please re-read. I also said the D pad we use today. Donkey Kong is recognised as the first true platfomer.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Valwin said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, wow, wow - funem, you're going extra far with your assumptions. Racing with power-ups, albeit from a bird's eye view was present on earlier consoles, so was the d-pad. Platform games may have been perfected by Nintendo, but they did not invent them by no means. etc. etc. Still, they are quite the force of innovation on the market.
> ...


It's not that I can't handle it, it's just that it's not true, as mentioned in my previous posts.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, wow, wow - funem, you're going extra far with your assumptions. Racing with power-ups, albeit from a bird's eye view was present on earlier consoles, so was the d-pad. Platform games may have been perfected by Nintendo, but they did not invent them by no means. etc. etc. Still, they are quite the force of innovation on the market.
> ...



Umm... I'm pretty sure Space Panic was the first platformer.

Though if we really want to get technical, I believe Real Life was the first platformer...and the first RPG...and the first FPS...


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



Space panic was originally classed as a platformer but most games historians now say its not, for one basic reason... you cant jump or fall, and thats how a platformer is defined.  Donkey kong was also first with having different sceens ( I believe).


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> I said Kart racing and this is what has been copied, please re-read. I also said the D pad we use today. Donkey Kong is recognised as the first true platfomer.



Thing is, Mario Kart was not the first Kart racing game either - I believe those begun as early as in the reign Atari. Admittedly the carts looked like "blocks" but still.

Not that either of those features really matter - those are typical Archetypes of gaming, of course they're interlinking and re-occouring in new formations as the time passes.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> Old8oy said:
> 
> 
> > funem said:
> ...



well now that just sounds like someone's opinion

edit*
btw, excellent work googling Space Panic.  your use of the word "historians" gave you away...


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > I said Kart racing and this is what has been copied, please re-read. I also said the D pad we use today. Donkey Kong is recognised as the first true platfomer.
> ...





Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > I said Kart racing and this is what has been copied, please re-read. I also said the D pad we use today. Donkey Kong is recognised as the first true platfomer.
> ...



http://entertainment...mario-kart-1992

Lord know what you would have been like around the time of the vectrex, SNES and Genesis consoles, most of them had unique games lists that make this argument look stupid. Multiplatform is nice but not required.

Re Space panic and historians, actually not google... look under my avatar... "Retro Powered" ..... I looked in the Guiness book of records on my shelf. (Guiness book of records 2012, "Donkey Kong (Nintendo 1981) was the very first 2D platformer....... "


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

Multiplatforms were in the world of gaming since its beginning. In fact, games were ported even more due to the multitude of available platforms, ESPECIALLY in the first and second generation, but in the third aswell, although more exclusives emerged then.

I'm not underestimating the importance of Super Mario Kart - I'm saying that it's not the first car game.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> Multiplatforms were in the world of gaming since its beginning. In fact, games were ported even more due to the multitude of available platforms, ESPECIALLY in the first and second generation, but in the third aswell, although more exclusives emerged then.
> 
> I'm not underestimating the importance of Super Mario Kart - I'm saying that it's not the first car game.



I said Kart racing, I was quite specific.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

funem said:


> Foxi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Multiplatforms were in the world of gaming since its beginning. In fact, games were ported even more due to the multitude of available platforms, ESPECIALLY in the first and second generation, but in the third aswell, although more exclusives emerged then.
> ...


For god's sake, you're particular about wording even when you're well-aware of the sense of the sentence. It's not the first cart game either, jeez.


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## funem (Feb 2, 2012)

Foxi4 said:


> funem said:
> 
> 
> > Foxi4 said:
> ...



It was you who have picked holes in everything that has been said, now you are complaining that I am being picky....

Just cheacked, First Kart racer with powerups (as I said), its in the book of records and also in the link I supplied. I am stepping out now, you will never be satisfied with any argument put before you. This thread needs locking.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 2, 2012)

I said that kart racing is an archetype that is reoccouring, the first typically "Kart" game is Karting Grand Prix for the Atari ST - it's bad, but it's a karting game. There were racing games with power-ups though, but you insist on the "kart" part even though on Atari ST and earlier system there was little difference between a kart and a full-sized car.


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## Midna (Feb 2, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> sjones900 said:
> 
> 
> > There is logic behind why they never go for the best hardware. Remember back when the 360 and PS3 we're new they both had hardware failures at launch what we now refer to as RROD and YLOD. Nintendo used older hardware that had been revised and improved so they had less issues. They make more money by selling cheaper hardware at a price point and on top of that they don't have to hire as many repair workers. So ultimately they win. It's kind of scheme really, but it works and the public just eats it up. How do they know it's gonna be hit they do tests on the public by releasing things to see how the public will accept. The DSi for example was really just a test to see how the public would like DLC on a handheld. It was well received so they went ahead with plans for the 3DS. The Wii in that sense is a test to see how well the public would have accepted motion controls. Obviously it was a success much bigger than they thought it would be. The Wii U will undoubtedly be a success.
> ...


>.7%
Wow, I lucked out. My PS3 is sitting dead in my back closet.

Edit: OI! Foxi! Stop arguing that Nintendo didn't invent anything. A lot of their things had been done before in a similar manner. For most of them however, Nintendo managed to simply do it better, and more importantly, popularize it. Apple did not invent the touch screen, nor did Nintendo. And yet they're primarily responsible for it's presence in the mass market.


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## wrettcaughn (Feb 2, 2012)

Right.

generic platformer + insert Mario = win
generic kart racer + insert Mario characters = win
generic fighting game + insert Nintendo characters = win

Nintendo branded their games.  That is where their popularity came from.

Just look at Super Mario Bros. 2 (the American release)...  All they did was insert Mario into another game and bam...10 million copies sold.


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## Midna (Feb 3, 2012)

Except those things were not generic before Nintendo did them. Some of them had been done, but the second telephone was not a "generic communications device". I dare you to say that Super Mario Brothers 3 is a generic platformer and only sold well because it had Mario

Edit: And how about the original Super Mario Brothers, or Donkey Kong? Those were smash hits, and neither Nintendo nor Mario was a giant at the time.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2012)

@[member='Midna']
@[member='funem']

I am not arguing that Nintendo didn't invent anything - it's just that I only attribute THEIR inventions to them. Knowing how to drive better then the first driver in the world does not mean "inventing driving", re-inventing? Maybe. Funem is correct to the extent that I will not be "convinced" no matter what is said to believe something that is essentially false - "Karting Game" is not a genre - racing game is, and racing games with power up's were present at that time. The fact whether the characters raced in go-karts, rockets or on bloody armadillo's is irrelevant - that's the game contents, those are the devices used, but they don't affect the gameplay. If Mario Kart was actually Mario Motor Racing from the start it would essentially be the same game, thus I classify it (approprietly) as a racing game. That said, it was one of the first Third Person Perspective racing games that was done "right", and I tip my imaginary hat, Nintendo - you made a timeless classic there.

There are multiple things that I can attribute to Nintendo, but inventing racing games with power-up's isn't one of them, point. By the way, Midna? I stand againts the common notion that Apple pupularized touch screens - if anyone did then it had to be Microsoft with their like of PoketPC PDA's based on WindowsCE and derrivatives. Admittedly they did not "build" the devices, but they laid out rules for the developers to follow so that they can even recieve a license. Quality control was quite high and devices like the Dell Axim's literally kick-started the whole "Touchscreen at the palm of your hand" epoch, at least in the form we know it today. If you're thinking of black and white ones then it's hard not to mention Nokia Communicator phones, probably the most popular touch-equipped phones at the time, at least where I live.


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## Midna (Feb 3, 2012)

This is insubstantial though. The iPhone is what brought touch screens onto every modest phone in production.


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## Hielkenator (Feb 3, 2012)

chris888222 said:


> Can I quote something from our fellow temp @[member='chartube12']
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha ha, so when YOU like it, it's doing Ninty good? LOL
Do you think you are THAT important?


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## Foxi4 (Feb 3, 2012)

Midna said:


> This is insubstantial though. The iPhone is what brought touch screens onto every modest phone in production.


I beg to differ - on many markets Microsoft-equipped or Symbian-equipped touchscreen phones were truly pupular even before anyone envisioned the iPhone, I do admit that I forgot about the MessagePad though. Nice find.


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## chris888222 (Feb 3, 2012)

Hielkenator said:


> chris888222 said:
> 
> 
> > Can I quote something from our fellow temp @[member='chartube12']
> ...


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## Hielkenator (Feb 3, 2012)

machomuu said:


> Satangel said:
> 
> 
> > BlueStar said:
> ...



No Money is. In the form of licensing contracts.


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