# Just Cause 2 Dev "Wii U devkits were collecting dust"



## p1ngpong (May 10, 2013)

> Avalanche Studios, developer behind Just Cause 2, has revealed that the company wanted to have a presence on Nintendo's console, but Wii U sales have just been too low for the company to commit any resources to developing for the platform.
> 
> Avalanche founder Christofer Sundberg commented to Pressfire (via Escapist), "We actually had some development kits that just collected dust. It's a bit sad, because we wanted to do something. I think it is a cool platform, but right now it's not just up to us. We want the game to reach as many as possible."



It seems another developer is staying away from the Wii U thanks to its slow start. However Avalanche founder Christofer Sundberg also sighted Nintendo themselves as a reason for not investing energy into the struggling console.



> Sundberg also complained that communication with Nintendo has been difficult, whereas Sony has proactively been reaching out to independent developers. "Nintendo have from our point of view has always been difficult to reach. You never quite know who to contact," he said.



 Source

Meh I never liked just cause as a series its just shovelware, Christofer Sundberg is just being a dick anyway. I am happy with Mario and Link thank you very much!


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## Taleweaver (May 10, 2013)

Again...bad news for us wiiu-owners. 


While nintendo can't exactly do more than they're already doing to get those consoles sold*, they CAN make sure that those communications are improved. Coming from a company that sucks in this department**, I can tell this means a LOT to morale of employees.







* at least...I'm assuming they're doing everything they can on this.
**our communication department is usually the last one to know anything...let alone distribute something useful


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## Guild McCommunist (May 10, 2013)

I can't wait for the avalanche of "IT'S THEIR FAULT FOR NOT TAKING RISKS"/"NINTEN-DO NO WRONG" comments to flood in.


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## Hop2089 (May 10, 2013)

Nobody wants to program for the WiiU heck even Nintendo themselves doesn't care, just look at what system most of their decent first party games will be on, it isn't the WiiU that's for sure.  The West think it's too anemic in specs and games won't sell on it, the East just doesn't give a flying shit


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## jacksprat1990 (May 10, 2013)

Modern gaming is horsesh*t. That simple.


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## Hyro-Sama (May 10, 2013)

Drink up, Nintendo.


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## Gahars (May 10, 2013)

It seemed like he avoided the obvious answer.

"Why are we not developing for the Wii U? Just Cause."


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## sjones900 (May 10, 2013)

This is just so frustrating... I really don't know what to do as a Wii U owner,  there aren't really all that many great games for it. But that doesn't mean there won't be... Do I cut my losses? Or hold on till something good comes along for the Wii U. To me it seems like just about every other day another developer expresses why they have no interest in deving for the console.


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## silver_ryder (May 10, 2013)

Slow start... lol

When the PS4 and the next box come out they they'll sell a lot more than WiiU!? wtf lol


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## Wintrale (May 10, 2013)

silver_ryder said:


> Slow star... lol
> 
> When the PS4 and the next box come out they ill sell alout more than WiiU!? wtf lol


 
Of course not. Many launch PS4 games will be on the PS3, too, which kinda defeats the purpose of upgrading to a new console. I'm not going to upgrade to a PS4 for a while if I can still get stuff like Assassin's Creed 4, The Evil Within and Watch Dogs on my PS3 and I doubt I'm the only one. That was the same problem the Wii U faced, I think. A lot of its launch titles were ports of PS3/360 games, which people obviously weren't going to buy a new console for if they already had a PS3 or 360.


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## Foxi4 (May 10, 2013)

sjones900 said:


> This is just so frustrating... I really don't know what to do as a Wii U owner _(...)_








_I kid, I kid... Nobody would buy it! _



No, seriously, I'm just kidding.


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## Eerpow (May 10, 2013)

Fair enough, I don't see a reason why anyone would develop games for it until Nintendo starts to do something about sales. Our worries shouldn't be affected or focused on thirdparty support this early, we should instead look at what Nintendo is up to in terms of software development, potentially new thirdparty relationship agreements, advertising etc. At the moment we know close to nothing. I've mentioned this before but, support comes when there's an audience and as always, Nintendo has to to it.
We know for a fact that they've once again have put a system on hold, late updates, not wanting to advertise it yet, delaying titles... it all hanging by a thin thread now, E3 and holiday sales will be their best shot at saving the Wii U, and given the massive amounts of money they have it shouldn't be a problem changing things for the better.

Not getting in touch with Nintendo easily seems to be a false statement, every other developer is saying the opposite.


> *We are a tiny indie developer and NEVER had issues to get in contact with Nintendo. They invited us to a conference in Madrid and are constantly checking what we are doing.
> 
> So my impression of Nintendo and their relations to indie is completely different. As a matter of fact they are going out of their way to pamper us. Nintendo is doing a lot to work with indies. Also, I find it funny that people keep forgetting that Nintendo were the first ones to strike a deal with Unity to drop all license cost to publish on their console.*


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## Snailface (May 10, 2013)

sjones900 said:


> This is just so frustrating... I really don't know what to do as a Wii U owner, there aren't really all that many great games for it. But that doesn't mean there won't be... *Do I cut my losses*? Or hold on till something good comes along for the Wii U. To me it seems like just about every other day another developer expresses why they have no interest in deving for the console.


Nintendo is worth 18.6 billion dollars, and they've been through this before. 3DS etc.


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## The Milkman (May 10, 2013)

WHOA WHOA, WHAT!? 


P1ng is happy with just Mario and Zelda!?!


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## ShadowSoldier (May 10, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I can't wait for the avalanche of "IT'S THEIR FAULT FOR NOT TAKING RISKS"/"NINTEN-DO NO WRONG" comments to flood in.


Got nothing better to do other than be a shit disturber, do you guild?


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## Snailface (May 10, 2013)

The Milkman said:


> WHOA WHOA, WHAT!?
> 
> 
> P1ng is happy with just Mario and Zelda!?!


No, he is happy with just fanboy tears.

Best to stay out of his way while he is feeding.


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## the_randomizer (May 10, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Got nothing better to do other than be a shit disturber, do you guild?


 
I expected nothing less of him


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## Jamstruth (May 10, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Modern gaming is horsesh*t. That simple.


Console market and AAA games in general seem to be headed towards a crash to me. Dev costs keep ramping up because people expect much more from them. These higher risks make publishers only greenlight what's been proven to sell. The proven to sell games are faced with much higher competition because that's all that's out. The games don't sell enough to cover the dev costs. Publishers blame whatever originality there was in the game. Rinse & repeat.

As for the WiiU. It won't sell until people make games for it and people won't make games for it until it sells. Huzzah for the Catch 22. It's going to be underpowered in a few months unless that GPU based rendering system it has can run a lot more efficiently than the last generation's more CPU based model.


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## B-Blue (May 10, 2013)

p1ngpong said:


> Meh I never liked just cause as a series its just shovelware, Christofer Sundberg is just being a dick anyway. I am happy with Mario and Link thank you very much!


 
Just Cause 2 ,while kinda repetitive, is a fun game. Especially on PC with all the hacks and shit.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 10, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Modern gaming is horsesh*t. That simple.


 
lolkay great evidence there


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## Deleted_171835 (May 10, 2013)

No shit, dev kits are going to collect dust if they aren't developing for the system. It's not upto the developer as to whether a game gets ported over anyways so this isn't really news.



B-Blue said:


> Just Cause 2 ,while kinda repetitive, is a fun game. Especially on PC with all the hacks and shit.


Esp. the multiplayer mod. Most fun I've had in months.


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## Qtis (May 10, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Got nothing better to do other than be a shit disturber, do you guild?


Then again, how many of us are real devs for a platform? If I had the time to waste in WiiU/console development, I'd seriously be commenting on GBAtemp. Oh wait, I could just outsource development to India like everyone else (no pun intended, this is just real life.. personal experience).


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## Bladexdsl (May 10, 2013)

see piracy is not the blame


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> lolkay great evidence there


 
Modern gaming could be better. With games like Final Fantasy XIII, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City and Ridge Racer Vita, how can we be in state of constant depression?


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## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Modern gaming could be better. With games like Final Fantasy XIII, Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City and Ridge Racer Vita, how can we be in state of constant depression?


 
Yes retro gaming never had bad games guys.


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Yes retro gaming never had bad games guys.


 

Nobody is that dumb to believe otherwise


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## Gahars (May 11, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Nobody is that dumb to believe otherwise


 
I think you underestimate the power of nostalgia.


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## Devin (May 11, 2013)

I blame the WiiUKey for the lack of Wii U games. 

When does it come out again?


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I think you underestimate the power of nostalgia.


 

Who, me? Nah.


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## Jayro (May 11, 2013)

Let me get this straight... the Wii U sales are low because there aren't games out for it... so developers aren't going to develop games for it, to bring sales back UP? Sounds like their retarded thinking is causing their own catch-22. Sinking their own ships with their own icebergs. Shooting themselves in the foot with their own irony. It's a pissing shame that people don't take radical risks anymore. The Wii didn't even give us any major Pokemon titles, only gave us  Zelda titles at the birth and death of the system, and Nintendo stopped giving a shit about the Wii about 2 years ago when they stopped doing system updates to add new features. I don't feel the original Wii really got taken advantage of, and I see the same thing happening to the Wii U.

Another thing that bothers me is developers shying away from Nintendo's system when it comes to big-name titles. I'm super pissed off as a Wii owner that all the good games are only out for PS3, 360, and PC. The Wii never gets a copy. I've seen games like Call of Duty MW3 and Resident Evil 4, and they are great. So the whole "The Wii is under-powered" argument is bullshit. With proper optimizations made, any game can be ported to the Wii. I was hopeful when the Wii U launched that big name devs were jumping on board, and now they're all bailing from a ship that wasn't sinking. Devs need to pull their LAZY, ARROGANT heads out of their asses, and start doing shit right.


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

The devs are a bunch of whining, wanking retards.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2013)

if you think it's the responsibility of third party developers to sell consoles then you probably shouldn't be commentating on gaming business as a whole.


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## Jamstruth (May 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Yes retro gaming never had bad games guys.


The problem with modern gaming is less to do with the number of bad games but how similar all the games are becoming. Everything is trying to be the next CoD or Halo but nothing is trying to be their own thing which there at least was something of in the 80s-90s.It's why Indie Games on the PC are starting to get more attention now. They're interesting.



the_randomizer said:


> The devs are a bunch of whining, wanking retards.


It's more the publishers that won't greenlight ideas that they insist "won't sell". Games are a risk and devs rely on publishers to take that risk for them to make the game. These days the stakes are even higher because dev costs have inflated a lot. They're only willing to risk it on concepts that are similar to ones that sell. Which is just not going to be fun for anyone.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> if you think it's the responsibility of third party developers to sell consoles then you probably shouldn't be commentating on gaming business as a whole.


 
Wait.... hold on... everybody's been saying that it nee.... you know what, fuck it. Not even going to try.


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

Their motto is from The Simpsons
"If something's too hard, then it's not worth doing."
or
"You both tried your best and you failed miserably, the lesson is, never try"

Wankers.


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## Gahars (May 11, 2013)

JayRo said:


> Let me get this straight... the Wii U sales are low because there aren't games out for it... so developers aren't going to develop games for it, to bring sales back UP?


 
Because that's a third party developer's responsibility, right?



JayRo said:


> Sounds like their retarded thinking is causing their own catch-22. Sinking their own ships with their own icebergs. Shooting themselves in the foot with their own irony.


 
...I think you might want to work on your metaphors a bit.



JayRo said:


> It's a pissing shame that people don't take radical risks anymore.


 
It's almost as if investing millions to develop games for a system with a limited user base is not a good allocation of resources. There's a difference between a risk and a pipe dream.

Besides, in a world where titles like Spec Ops: The Line and Tell Tale's The Walking Dead were released just last year... yeah, developers are still taking their fair share of risks. It's just about knowing which risks can pay off and which likely won't.



JayRo said:


> The Wii didn't even give us any major Pokemon titles, only gave us Zelda titles at the birth and death of the system, and Nintendo stopped giving a shit about the Wii about 2 years ago when they stopped doing system updates to add new features. I don't feel the original Wii really got taken advantage of, and I see the same thing happening to the Wii U.


 
1) Pokemon's primarily a handheld franchise, so that's pretty much par for the course. What exactly were you expecting?
2) Nintendo only made two Zelda titles for the N64 and Gamecube (I forget the exact number for the NES and SNES), so that's also hardly unusual.
3) Eh.
4) I'd say Nintendo pushed the little thing as far as it could go. They released a pretty solid lineup of titles (as they always do), and I'm impressed by what they were able to get out of the hardware. I think they just hobbled themselves with its specs (good for keeping the price low around launch, but it caught up to them in the long term) and the motion control gimmick... but I could rant about that for ages, so I'll spare you the frothing rage.



JayRo said:


> Another thing that bothers me is developers shying away from Nintendo's system when it comes to big-name titles. I'm super pissed off as a Wii owner that all the good games are only out for PS3, 360, and PC. The Wii never gets a copy. I've seen games like Call of Duty MW3 and Resident Evil 4, and they are great. So the whole "The Wii is under-powered" argument is bullshit. With proper optimizations made, any game can be ported to the Wii. I was hopeful when the Wii U launched that big name devs were jumping on board, and now they're all bailing from a ship that wasn't sinking.


 
"With all due respect, sir, you are wrong."

Developers shied away because, well, their titles generally didn't sell all that well. Don't forget that the Wii received some pretty cool, exclusive third party titles not long after its launch. They bombed. It's unfair to expect developers to pour money into a system that isn't netting them a decent profit - that's just poor business sense.

And yes, a port of a Gamecube title and a stripped down version of Modern Warfare are clear proof that the Wii was a powerhouse. Clearly. Suck it, fangoys!

We have quite a few experts on hardware in GBAtemp, people much smarter than me (I still believe that consoles run on pixie dust and the power of wishing), so any of them could happily explain to you how the Wii's hardware was unequivocally weaker than what the competition had to offer. Add in motion controls and porting becomes a very difficult prospect.

Sure, technically you can port any title to the Wii, just like I could technically port GTA IV to my TI-84. Problem is, I would have to make so many cuts and adjustments (to put it loosely) that the final product would in no way resemble the original game - and if that's the end result, what's the point?



JayRo said:


> Devs need to pull their LAZY, ARROGANT heads out of their asses, and start doing shit right.


 
lolokay


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## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Wait.... hold on... everybody's been saying that it nee.... you know what, fuck it. Not even going to try.


 
It _needs_ third party support but it's not the responsibility of third parties to throw their own cash off a cliff in a leap of faith. It's up to Nintendo to get the console selling, to snag exclusivity deals, to encourage third party development, to just advertise it a lot. It's been the same for every console.

Third party developers aren't in the business for charity. They're not gonna make huge risks just to get a console selling. Nintendo (or any other manufacturer) has to take the responsibility to get it selling, then third parties will flock to it.


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## pwsincd (May 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> if you think it's the responsibility of third party developers to sell consoles then you probably shouldn't be commentating on gaming business as a hole.


 
But it is a HOLE with fekk all to fill it.


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## gokujr1000 (May 11, 2013)

Another thread leading to another discussion about the Wii-U's supposed doom, yay...


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## chavosaur (May 11, 2013)

My family is selling the wii u for the PS4 now, we have all given up on the poor little thing. 
I mean, how are we supposed to play a system that has nothing going for it, has titles that we've already played on our 360, and is losing support from third parties left and right?
I've been trying to force myself to enjoy it but I literally just can't try anymore.


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## pyromaniac123 (May 11, 2013)

JayRo said:


> Devs need to pull their LAZY, ARROGANT heads out of their asses, and start doing shit right.


 
Well you would need to pull your head out of your ass to shit.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 11, 2013)

Gahars said:


> Besides, in a world where titles like *Spec Ops: The Line and Tell Tale's The Walking Dead* were released just last year... yeah, developers are still taking their fair share of risks. It's just about knowing which risks can pay off and which likely won't.


tbf, those aren't exactly huge risks. Spec Ops can be easily marketed as a generic dudebro shooter to the mass market and The Walking Dead is a huge multimillion dollar franchise.



chavosaur said:


> My family is selling the wii u for the PS4 now, we have all given up on the poor little thing.
> I mean, how are we supposed to play a system that has nothing going for it, has titles that we've already played on our 360, and is losing support from third parties left and right?
> I've been trying to force myself to enjoy it but I literally just can't try anymore.


Before you all cry doom, at least wait till E3 to see if Nintendo has anything in store.


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## chavosaur (May 11, 2013)

soulx said:


> Before you all cry doom, at least wait till E3 to see if Nintendo has anything in store.


Tbqh, at this point I don't care about Nintendo's exclusives anymore. 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not like most other people in other threads, I'm not saying my opinion is automatically the opinion of all gamers, but for me personally, I just have no desire to hold onto the wii u anymore. 
The fact that I can see third parties bailing ship left and right just doesn't look good to me. 
Perhaps I'm worrying to early, but at the Same time, I'm trying to pay attention to the ordeals going on right now. 
I have a 3DS, which I enjoy the living death out of and can enjoy tons of Nintendo exclusives on it, and third party games that are actually being released for it. 
I can stand not owning a wii u anymore, and can stand not being able to play a console Mario or Console Zelda.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2013)

soulx said:


> tbf, those aren't exactly huge risks. Spec Ops can be easily marketed as a generic dudebro shooter to the mass market and The Walking Dead is a huge multimillion dollar franchise.


 
I think he meant risks in terms of progression of video games as an art form not as "unmarketable games".

EDIT: A lot of people just say that modern gaming "doesn't take risks" and I believe that these two titles show that they do take risks but tackling mature themes and really showing what makes video games an effective art form. It was able to inspire guilt, remorse, actual emotions from your actions. There's nothing else that does that currently in art, not on this level at least.


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## Gahars (May 11, 2013)

soulx said:


> tbf, those aren't exactly huge risks. Spec Ops can be easily marketed as a generic dudebro shooter to the mass market and The Walking Dead is a huge multimillion dollar franchise.


 
I think you could say they're both artistic risks (as Guild explained) and financial risks. In order for Spec Ops to work it had to be aggressively marketed as the most typical third person, modern military shooter possible. It's great for making an artistic point, but not exactly great for convincing people to buy your game in droves, and the sales suffered for it as a result.

The Walking Dead was attached to a popular brand, no doubt about that, but it's also in a genre that's been more or less dead for some time now (at least when it comes to mainstream releases). Not only that, the game was handed to a relatively small studio more known for comedic titles than anything else. Finally, the game doesn't really have any connection to the wildly popular television show; it's not even set in the same continuity. Considering how much easier it would be to produce a quick cash-in (like, say, Survival Instinct), I'd say that letting Telltale have at it was a risk.

But I'm getting bogged down in the specifics. Publishers and companies can play it too safe at times, sure, but saying that there's no risk at all is ludicrously inaccurate and an insult to the hardworking developers trying to advance the medium.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> My family is selling the wii u for the PS4 now, we have all given up on the poor little thing.
> I mean, how are we supposed to play a system that has nothing going for it, has titles that we've already played on our 360, and is losing support from third parties left and right?
> I've been trying to force myself to enjoy it but I literally just can't try anymore.


 
Cool story bro. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


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## chavosaur (May 11, 2013)

I wasn't leaving..?
I'm merely stating my reasonings for not wanting to own the wii u anymore. 
Reasonings a lot of other wii u owners have shared as well ._.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Cool story bro. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


 
Good to know the Wii U community fights hard to keep its members.


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## [M]artin (May 11, 2013)

In related, breaking news: _*Insomniac Games not working on Wii U titles, may consider PC development, says CEO*_


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## PityOnU (May 11, 2013)

I think the biggest issue for the WiiU right now is its lack of sales. The low number of units in the wild make it difficult for developers to justify putting a lot of work into the platform, which leads to it having a poor game selection. The poor game selection causes everyone not to buy it. It's a self-perpetuating cycle.

As far as I can tell, the sales for this unit will pick up BIG once Nintendo gets around to releasing their first party titles for it. Say what you want about Nintendo, but they make FANTASTIC games, and can definitely sell this system.

However, they definitely pushed the WiiU out the door way to early. It is clear to me that they felt they had to release their somewhat lackluster console (power-wise) before Sony or Microsoft got around to gobbling up a holiday season, and their only chance to do that was last year. They called it spot on, but they also put everyone in WiiU limbo for 6-8 months.


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## nukeboy95 (May 11, 2013)

here's the problem

3rd party: where not releasing games till more people have a wii u

people: where not buying it till there more 3rd party games

and soo on


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## UltraHurricane (May 11, 2013)

Well I'd have to say, yeah, it is kinda nintendo's fault that third parties don't want to develop for the Wii U, and it doesn't help that there's little to no marketing for the Wii U. There's almost no ads outside of the gaming media and most people think it's some kind of expansion or accessory to the Wii, and of course the abysmal sales when compared to how the Vita is doing. All these issues don't make it very reassuring to developers and you can understand why they would think twice about making games of it.

call me naive, but I still hope that nintendo can show us SOMETHING for the Wii U by E3


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

Nintendo had better have quite the E3.


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## p1ngpong (May 11, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Wow, thanks to whoever removed my post I had not too long ago; must have been a Sony Censor Ninja.


 
I removed your post because it added nothing to the discussion apart from butthurtness and vulgarity.

Problem?


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

p1ngpong said:


> I removed your post because it added nothing to the discussion apart from butthurtness and vulgarity.
> 
> Problem?


 
Nope...I'll take my leave


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## air2004 (May 11, 2013)

I have an idea Ninty, cut the price in half for the next 6 months, systems will fly off the shelves, and then developers will flock to you.
What about those of us that bought on launch day you say? Simply give us a credit for the price difference.
What happens after the 6 month period? simple, raise the price back up and it will sell itself.
Or keep the price the same , because you will make a boat load of money from all the new games that will come out and the hardware will keep flying, and you make money on licensing.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

air2004 said:


> I have an idea Ninty, cut the price in half for the next 6 months, systems will fly off the shelves, and then developers will flock to you.


Then they'd be losing a ton of money whether they sell a lot or not.


> What about those of us that bought on launch day you say? Simply give us a credit for the price difference.


 So give people like what, 100 dollar credits? Really?


> What happens after the 6 month period? simple, raise the price back up and it will sell itself.


 Who the hell raises the price of something after cutting it's price? Wtf?


> Or keep the price the same, because you will make a boat load of money from all the new games that will come out and the hardware will keep flying, and you make money on licensing.


 
I'm really glad you're not running a business.


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## air2004 (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Then they'd be losing a ton of money whether they sell a lot or not.
> So give people like what, 100 dollar credits? Really?
> Who the hell raises the price of something after cutting it's price? Wtf?
> 
> ...


This idea is better than what they are doing now.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

air2004 said:


> This idea is better than what they are doing now.


 
No it isn't, all they need is games. All they need to do is release a Mario or Smash Bros and boom, sales.


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## air2004 (May 11, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> No it isn't, all they need is games. All they need to do is release a Mario or Smash Bros and boom, sales.


Hacks and only hacks will sell this hardware  (down side, devs will worry about piracy).... ninty fucked this launch up, no game is saving this piece of shit system, with each passing day this system is looking more and more like the virtual boy system.

Instead of being Cutting Edge, it's simply a cutting edge. See the difference?


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## Bladexdsl (May 11, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Nintendo had better have quite the E3.


They are not, remember they said their not going to bother with it much anymore.


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## shakirmoledina (May 11, 2013)

See that's how to express your feelings EA.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 11, 2013)

air2004 said:


> Hacks and only hacks will sell this hardware  (down side, devs will worry about piracy).... ninty fucked this launch up, no game is saving this piece of shit system, with each passing day this system is looking more and more like the virtual boy system.
> 
> Instead of being Cutting Edge, it's simply a cutting edge. See the difference?


Lol okay, this discussion is over. You can't be taken seriously.


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## nukeboy95 (May 11, 2013)

Where is the 3rd party supporting hardcore gaming console Nintendo promised?


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## pwsincd (May 11, 2013)

I like my WiiU games or no games, I play what I've got and get what I can... The games will come. I'm more than a little tired of reading these threads, same ole faces with same old opinions under the guise of a new thread...  I'm astonished really people can continue to fukkin whinge..  get a grip it's a games console.. ffs.


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## Foxi4 (May 11, 2013)

Gahars said:


> I think you underestimate the power of nostalgia.





Spoiler











 
Like it was said numerous times before in the thread, while developing for the Wii U would be a _just cause_, I can see how publishers don't greenlight any projects for the system. I'm sure that if it starts selling due to first and second-party C.P.R dev's will start cooking things up, so everything's up to Nintendo now.


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

air2004 said:


> Hacks and only hacks will sell this hardware (down side, devs will worry about piracy).... ninty fucked this launch up, no game is saving this piece of shit system, with each passing day this system is looking more and more like the virtual boy system.
> 
> Instead of being Cutting Edge, it's simply a cutting edge. See the difference?


 
Nintendo f***ed the launch? You clearly weren't around when the Virtual Boy was around. Do you even lift? Don't forget, the PSVita had a good launch and is selling like hotcakes.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 11, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Nintendo f***ed the launch? You clearly weren't around when the Virtual Boy was around. Do you even lift? Don't forget, the PSVita had a good launch and is selling like hotcakes.


 
Your argument is pretty weak if you have to say "Well there's worse out there".

It was a bad launch, plain and simple.


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## the_randomizer (May 11, 2013)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Your argument is pretty weak if you have to say "Well there's worse out there".
> 
> It was a bad launch, plain and simple.


 
keyword, "was" doesn't mean it will fail. I was proving a point, but it was flawed, I won't deny it. The 3DS had a bad launch too, but the fact so many games came out saved it. The same can happen with the Wii U. You should see the thread on IGN, it's pretty bad and unintentionally hilarious to see their reaction. The fact so many rumors are going around, I don't know what to believe. But Nintendo will not go under, and people who claim the Wii U will be doomed to oblivion, they should wait at least till E3 and more games are announced. Once the console begins to sell more stably, third parties will be more inclined to support. It's grim now, I won't deny that either despite my fanboy-blindness, but there is no reason to assume the console is dead.


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## Devin (May 11, 2013)




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## air2004 (May 12, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> Nintendo f***ed the launch? You clearly weren't around when the Virtual Boy was around. Do you even lift? Don't forget, the PSVita had a good launch and is selling like hotcakes.


 I Was 18 when the VB came out.


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## Psionic Roshambo (May 12, 2013)

The 3DS was doomed too, Nintendo has a recent history of being able to turn things around.  

Release some decent games, throw out a price drop and sales will happen, not a hard formula to understand.


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## Geren (May 12, 2013)

chavosaur said:


> Tbqh, at this point I don't care about Nintendo's exclusives anymore.
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not like most other people in other threads, I'm not saying my opinion is automatically the opinion of all gamers, but for me personally, I just have no desire to hold onto the wii u anymore.
> The fact that I can see third parties bailing ship left and right just doesn't look good to me.
> Perhaps I'm worrying to early, but at the Same time, I'm trying to pay attention to the ordeals going on right now.
> ...


 
So you are not enjoying your Wii U, but you are enjoying the 3ds, that was in this very same situation for like a year.
Let's look at some sites in the past:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/07/29/history-says-the-3ds-is-doomed
http://3dsforums.com/nintendo-3ds-3/nintendo-3ds-doomed-fail-maybe-4038/
http://seekingalpha.com/article/297640-nintendo-seems-doomed-in-the-face-of-strong-competition
http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/05/18/nintendo-3ds-the-failed-launch
http://www.postdesk.com/the-3ds-is-nintendos-last-stand
http://ds.gamespy.com/articles/117/1172578p1.html
http://daxgamer.com/2011/09/nintendo-3ds-failed/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/five-reasons-why-the-nintendo-3ds-is-bob-ombing-with-gamers/
http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/4144/article/how-nintendo-failed-the-3ds/

Sure, the 3ds is the cause for the first losses in nintendo's recent history. But the thing is: with some support and games it's enjoyable, and it doesn't seem like it's going to stop any time soon. Try to wait a little more, who knows, maybe you'll regret selling it. The same goes for the vita... people cry "doomed" waaay too quickly.


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## 2ndApex (May 12, 2013)

Meh, Nintendo just needs a highly anticipated 1st party title or two and well-priced Wii U bundle and a whole bunch of people will hop on like I did on the 3DS.

I just hope I don't have to wait a few years again.


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## DSGamer64 (May 12, 2013)

You can't sell a system without games though, that is the ironic thing. Maybe they should make a fucking game and move more systems as a result.


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> You can't sell a system without games though, that is the ironic thing. Maybe they should make a fucking game and move more systems as a result.


It's not ironic or tragic - developers have complained about Nintendo's approach to third-party developers for years now, they have even when the NES/SNES days but back then there weren't really any viable alternatives except for SEGA which bailed out after the Dreamcast. Now that there _are_ alternatives, namely Microsoft, Sony, Valve, EA and other publishers/console developers, third-party just doesn't care about relations with Nintendo which are usually difficult.

Nintendo has to change their attitude when it comes to third-party, they need to do their best to attract attention, they need to create a comfortable environment for development including hardware and software support and they need to get real because it's no longer the 1990'ties and their first-party won't be able to keep their systems afloat.


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## jacksprat1990 (May 12, 2013)

Every console must be "doomed" soon after they launch. Seriously, you people that truly believe that the WiiU is "doomed" are beyond stupid.



DSGamer64 said:


> You can't sell a system without games though, that is the ironic thing. Maybe they should make a fucking game and move more systems as a result.



Good games need time to be developed. Common sense and all that.


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## Arm73 (May 12, 2013)

LOL I remember a few months ago in similar topics, some guys were selling their 3DS because they thought there was no future in it.....
I asked what was wrong with them, getting a 3DS on launch day and selling it (at a huge loss ) only 3 - 4 months later for lack of games.....
Games need to be developed, eventually the 3DS became a power house of handheld gaming for years to come !
Considering that home consoles require even longer development times, I really don't understand people not willing to wait at least until this year E3 to pass judgment on the Wii U.
Everybody is whining and screaming DOOMED ......
I'd say go ahead, sell your Wii Us, and maybe be ready to re buy it in a few months when the right games inevitably start to come along.


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## war2thegrave (May 12, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> LOL I remember a few months ago in similar topics, some guys were selling their 3DS because they thought there was no future in it.....
> I asked what was wrong with them, getting a 3DS on launch day and selling it (at a huge loss ) only 3 - 4 months later for lack of games.....
> Games need to be developed, eventually the 3DS became a power house of handheld gaming for years to come !
> Considering that home consoles require even longer development times, I really don't understand people not willing to wait at least until this year E3 to pass judgment on the Wii U.
> ...


 
Because that massive price drop had absolutely nothing to do with it, right?


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## pwsincd (May 12, 2013)

/me pops head into thread ,, ffs groundhog day...  slopes away again....


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2013)

We have to look at the facts here - you can play exactly the same AAA titles on the XBox 360 and the PS3 as you can on the Wii U - what incentive is there to buy or upgrade to the Wii U as it stands today? Nintendo keeps giving it _"First and Second-Party C.P.R."_ rather than securing and financing exclusivity deals _(on their own expense) _- the console will underperform sales-wise until that policy changes and Nintendo starts developing good relations with third-party developers .

Here in the real world console manufacturers go out to developers and publishers, check what's cooking and propose deals so that the publisher/developer makes money on a given title regardless of the console sales. Naturally this causes _initial_ losses for the console manufacturer _but_ at the same time, the console starts selling precisely due to these exclusive titles. In the long run it's beneficial - once the console secures its market share developers start working on titles for it on their own.


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## Dork (May 12, 2013)

jacksprat1990 said:


> Every console must be "doomed" soon after they launch. Seriously, you people that truly believe that the WiiU is "doomed" are beyond stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Good games need time to be developed. Common sense and all that.


 
At this rate GBAtemp will be worse than /v/, if it isn't already.


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## emigre (May 12, 2013)

Devin said:


> Spoiler


 
You spelt no gaems wrong.


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## Arm73 (May 12, 2013)

war2thegrave said:


> Because that massive price drop had absolutely nothing to do with it, right?


History teaches us that a price drop alone has never worked before and never saved any doomed system.
Gotta quote Geren on this one:


Geren said:


> ..........
> Let's look at some sites in the past:
> 
> http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/07/29/history-says-the-3ds-is-doomed
> ...


 
And you think that the price drop had more to do it with it that a shitload of games released in the following months ?
Did the price drop on the 3G Vita change something ? Anything ?
Did the UK price drop for the Wii U change something ? Anything ?

I got news for you, it's the games dude !
Wait for the games, then we talk again.


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> Did the price drop on the 3G Vita change something ? Anything ?


It increased sales to the point that for one week the PSVita sold better than the Wii U, the original 3DS and _almost_ reached the level of cumulative 3DS and 3DS LL sales?

http://gematsu.com/2013/03/media-create-sales-22513-3313


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## Arm73 (May 12, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It increased sales to the point that for one week the PSVita sold better than the Wii U, the original 3DS and _almost_ reached the level of cumulative 3DS and 3DS LL sales?
> 
> http://gematsu.com/2013/03/media-create-sales-22513-3313


Oh geez, I gotta go and buy a Vita ASAP now, I'm so excited ! It sells, it means it must be good ! 
Oh wait.....if I get one I'll be in trouble, too many games too chose from, what'll I do


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> Oh geez, I gotta go and buy a Vita ASAP now, I'm so excited ! It sells, it means it must be good !
> Oh wait.....if I get one I'll be in trouble, too many games too chose from, what'll I do


There's actually quite a lot of good games out there for the system now and only more on the way, not sure what's your problem with it. You said that the price drop didn't help wheras according to the article, it pushed the PSVita to the top of the list as far as sold units are concerned _(for whatever reason 3DS and 3DSLL sales were not consolidated)_.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 12, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> There's actually quite a lot of good games out there for the system now and only more on the way, not sure what's your problem with it. You said that the price drop didn't help wheras according to the article, it pushed the PSVita to the top of the list as far as sold units are concerned _(for whatever reason 3DS and 3DSLL sales were not consolidated)_.


Sorry to burst your bubble but the price drop didn't do much. It had an effect for one or two weeks also thanks to the release of some games but now it's back to doing as bad as before. Truth is the Vita is in no better position than it was before, arguably worse thanks to the lack of exclusive games coming out in the future. It's dead in the water.


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## Foxi4 (May 12, 2013)

soulx said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble but the price drop didn't do much. It had an effect for one or two weeks also thanks to the release of some games but now it's back to doing as bad as before. Truth is the Vita is in no better position than it was before, arguably worse thanks to the lack of exclusive games coming out in the future. It's dead in the water.


The question was if the price drop had any effect - it did, the sales increased for a few weeks.


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## Arm73 (May 12, 2013)

Price drop + shitload of games for 3DS= #1 handled system seller in the world.
Price drop for Vita = 





Foxi4 said:


> ....... the sales increased for a few weeks.


 
Can you spot the difference ? 

The question is, is the price drop alone the solution to poor sales, or is it the lack of good, exclusive games the root of all problems ?


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## war2thegrave (May 13, 2013)

Arm73 said:


> Price drop + shitload of games for 3DS= #1 handled system seller in the world.
> Price drop for Vita =
> 
> Can you spot the difference ?
> ...


 
Well, Nintendo's first party games were coming even if the price drop didn't.
Nintendo is a very stubborn corporation. It had to take a major problem for them to radically change their business model
from selling every console at a profit, to adopting the industry standard of selling hardware for a loss and making it up
with licensing fees like sony and microsoft do.

If nintendo really thought that their games were good enough to save the struggling 3ds,
they would not have changed the formula that had worked so successfully for them during  the past 20+ years.


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## Lucifer666 (May 13, 2013)

Honestly the easiest way out of the Wii U's seemingly inevitable doom is for Nintendo to simply release first party titles. GOOD first party titles.

Aside from NSMBU and Nintendo Land, there is literally nothing. With more Mario, Zelda and the like, sales'll go up, and that'll encourage third party devs to start working with the Wii U. The Wii U's preposterously bad start is entirely Ninty's fault.


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## emigre (May 13, 2013)

> Third party support on a Nintendo console.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 13, 2013)

Lucifer666 said:


> Honestly the easiest way out of the Wii U's seemingly inevitable doom is for Nintendo to simply release first party titles. GOOD first party titles.
> 
> Aside from NSMBU and Nintendo Land, there is literally nothing. With more Mario, Zelda and the like, sales'll go up, and that'll encourage third party devs to start working with the Wii U. The Wii U's preposterously bad start is entirely Ninty's fault.


 
No no, the WiiU had a terrific start. But now it isn't.


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## DSGamer64 (May 15, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> It's not ironic or tragic - developers have complained about Nintendo's approach to third-party developers for years now, they have even when the NES/SNES days but back then there weren't really any viable alternatives except for SEGA which bailed out after the Dreamcast. Now that there _are_ alternatives, namely Microsoft, Sony, Valve, EA and other publishers/console developers, third-party just doesn't care about relations with Nintendo which are usually difficult.
> 
> Nintendo has to change their attitude when it comes to third-party, they need to do their best to attract attention, they need to create a comfortable environment for development including hardware and software support and they need to get real because it's no longer the 1990'ties and their first-party won't be able to keep their systems afloat.


 
They really don't, because after all, what sells Nintendo hardware? Nintendo games. Maybe its the 3rd party studios who need to man up and accept that when it comes to Nintendo platforms, your biggest sales competitor is Nintendo themselves. And why pander to studios that aren't innovating? Why pander to studios who just want to use your platform to milk their cash cow franchises to death rather then making new shit? What reason does Nintendo have to allow studios like EA to tread all over customers by forcing Origin integration on their own platform?


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## Foxi4 (May 15, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> And why pander to studios that aren't innovating? Why pander to studios who just want to use your platform to milk their cash cow franchises to death rather then making new shit?  Why pander to studios who just want to use your platform to milk their cash cow franchises to death rather then making new shit?


...because Nintendo is a true fountain of new IP's. Nintendo doesn't milk the same old franchises repeatedly at all - they're totally not releasing Pokemon games at regular intervals nor are they making ludicrous amounts of Mario spin-offs. 

It's true that _some_ people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo exclusives, however that's just one side of the coin. The most successful Nintendo consoles had a wide variety of titles from first, second and third-party developers - the ones that didn't failed to make a splash. Hmm, I wonder why.


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## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

emigre said:


> > Third party support on a Nintendo console.


 
<^> Microsoft is a legitimate game maker.


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## Foxi4 (May 15, 2013)

the_randomizer said:


> <^> Microsoft is a legitimate game maker.


They are and have been for a number of years?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Studios


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## the_randomizer (May 15, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> They are and have been for a number of years?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Studios


 
Seven if my math is correct. Can't tell for sure, I was caught inhaling formaldehyde fumes after doing it for five hours straight.


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## ShadowSoldier (May 15, 2013)

I'm sorry but I really don't consider Microsoft a game maker at all. If anything, they just buy out other companies.


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## FAST6191 (May 15, 2013)

ShadowSoldier said:


> I'm sorry but I really don't consider Microsoft a game maker at all. If anything, they just buy out other companies.



Buying companies that have already done the groundwork for things is an extremely well accepted practice and common end goal of startups with the "enter into an exclusive deal" type arrangement being not that far behind. Add in mergers and you have another.

Pick any big company (especially in games) and they will probably have a long list of these sorts of things to their name.

Beyond that Microsoft have developed serious game playing tech (directX and XNA to name but two). By all means think as such but it seems a rather odd line to draw and one that excludes an awful lot of companies most would recognise as companies that have their primary business and/or a serious component thereof in the games world.


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## DSGamer64 (May 16, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...because Nintendo is a true fountain of new IP's. Nintendo doesn't milk the same old franchises repeatedly at all - they're totally not releasing Pokemon games at regular intervals nor are they making ludicrous amounts of Mario spin-offs.
> 
> It's true that _some_ people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo exclusives, however that's just one side of the coin. The most successful Nintendo consoles had a wide variety of titles from first, second and third-party developers - the ones that didn't failed to make a splash. Hmm, I wonder why.


 
At least they don't make new Call of Duty games every 6 months. Seriusly, the amount of rehashing in the shooter genre is embarrassing, at least EA makes a new Battlefield game every 2 years, but that isn't saying much. And Nintendo hasn't had a console with good quality 3rd party support since the SNES, yet those same developers have no problems with making games on their portables so I honestly have no idea why these developers are crying over making games for the Wii U. It seems to me like its the same old story of Nintendo going against the grain and developers hate it. How quickly they forget how many tears they spilled over the PS3's Cell processor for 3 years before they shut up and started making games. They all want to make their games for the exact same types of hardware, yet for the industry that would be a bad thing. These developers need to man up and get to work methinks, rather then sitting around whining about how they aren't going to make money on a game for a system that is only 7 months old.



Lucifer666 said:


> Honestly the easiest way out of the Wii U's seemingly inevitable doom is for Nintendo to simply release first party titles. GOOD first party titles.
> 
> Aside from NSMBU and Nintendo Land, there is literally nothing. With more Mario, Zelda and the like, sales'll go up, and that'll encourage third party devs to start working with the Wii U. The Wii U's preposterously bad start is entirely Ninty's fault.


 
Nintendo was caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the Wii U launch, either release it with lacking content, or get trounced by the competitors at Christmas this year. No one can predict the future, however Nintendo should have known that the system would have a terrible first year due to the lack of games. The Rayman Legends delay has not helped the system at all, but they do need to get first party and high quality franchises out there. 

And the Wii U launch software was terrible, most of the ports were sub par.


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## Guild McCommunist (May 16, 2013)

DSGamer64 said:


> At least they don't make new Call of Duty games every 6 months.


 
Funny enough, neither does Activision.

EDIT: Also saying "LOOK HOW BAD Y IS" doesn't make X look any better. Whatever X may be is still shit, you just know now there's something else that's shit. Whoopie.


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## Deleted_171835 (May 16, 2013)

Foxi4 said:


> ...because Nintendo is a true fountain of new IP's. Nintendo doesn't milk the same old franchises repeatedly at all - they're totally not releasing Pokemon games at regular intervals nor are they making ludicrous amounts of Mario spin-offs.
> 
> It's true that _some_ people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo exclusives, however that's just one side of the coin. The most successful Nintendo consoles had a wide variety of titles from first, second and third-party developers - the ones that didn't failed to make a splash. Hmm, I wonder why.


Nintendo makes games in popular franchises. Their games still sell quite well proving that there is still a market for them so what's wrong with creating new entries in them? And with their main series (not withstanding the Mario Parties and Mario Golfs), they usually don't release entries in them too often (last 3D Mario was in 2011).

And tbf, they did release quite a bit of new IPs in the DS/Wii era, just more aimed at the casual market. Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Music, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Electroplankton, Rhythm Heaven, Disaster: Day of Crisis and well, Xenoblade.


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## weavile001 (May 16, 2013)

soulx said:


> Nintendo makes games in popular franchises. Their games still sell quite well proving that there is still a market for them so what's wrong with creating new entries in them? And with their main series (not withstanding the Mario Parties and Mario Golfs), they usually don't release entries in them too often (last 3D Mario was in 2011).
> 
> And tbf, they did release quite a bit of new IPs in the DS/Wii era, just more aimed at the casual market. Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Music, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Electroplankton, Disaster: Day of Crisis and well, Xenoblade.


don´t forget rhythm heaven!!!!!!!!!


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## AceWarhead (May 16, 2013)

Good god, the amount of people desperately trying to put the Wii U in a good light makes me want to puke. Moreso the one that just scream "NEETENDO FERST PARTY WILL SAEV IT!!!!!!!"


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