# Miyazaki: The Problem With The Anime Industry Is It's Full of Otaku



## GameWinner (Jan 31, 2014)

Read this earlier today and thought it was pretty interesting. So I thought I'd share it here.



> Acclaimed director Hayao Miyazaki let audiences know how he really feels about the anime industry in a recent television interview. According to the recent retiree, anime suffers because industry staff is made up of otaku who "don't spend time watching real people" and are "humans who can't stand looking at other humans."
> 
> Miyazaki explained that animating people can only be done by those who spend time observing others, something he feels the industry lacks because it's "full of otaku."
> 
> ...



(I agree with him by the way)

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...m-with-the-anime-industry-is-it-full-of-otaku


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## TheJeweler (Jan 31, 2014)

I read this the other day, I agree as well. I found his Ipad comment pretty funny too


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## FAST6191 (Jan 31, 2014)

This is why you do not let the inmates run the asylum, it is not the first field (US style comics, politics, science , a lot of films....) this has happened to.

Indeed it seems to have happened in his former company as well, that or nepotism is a sub class of the problem above.


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## Black-Ice (Jan 31, 2014)

There's a problem with the anime industry?


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## TheJeweler (Jan 31, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> There's a problem with the anime industry?


 
Sometimes I ask myself, "Is this Anime? or is it soft-core porn?"


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## the_randomizer (Jan 31, 2014)

TheJeweler said:


> Sometimes I ask myself, "Is this Anime? or is it soft-core porn?"


 

Those two aren't mutually exclusive


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## FAST6191 (Feb 1, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> There's a problem with the anime industry?



Some might argue there has not really been anything great in some time; ignoring things that are OAV or continuations of other things then Death Note was at best very divisive (it started out as basically an endless anime a la Naruto or Bleach or One Piece and then got very silly indeed, though to its credit it kind of had to go there from what I have read) which then sends you back to what Gurren Lagann in 2007 (not one of the all time greats as far as I am concerned, I can see why people like it) or Afro Samurai in the same year (which was based on a far older manga). There have been several shows recently that are prepped to "save" anime as well (going by various things this might be Kill la Kill, Space Dandy and Attack on Titan).

Personally I gave up on anime years ago (though I have yet to check out those three shows I mentioned at the end there), I read the seasonal lists for new shows whenever they come out (or at least I try to) but so very little beyond that. I know I am not alone in this either.

Of course I could be wrong and it is no coincidence the shows I mentioned up above came out when I did (about the time I stopped), I doubt it but it is a possibility.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2014)

I see that someone yelled _"Wea-BOOOOO! "_ - good for you Miyazaki. On one hand, you're right - you can't treat a genre generated almost exclusively by horny pre-pubescent _(or worse - post-pubecent but somehow "still not")_ boys as a serious form of artistic expression, on the other, the market generates the demand. In a lot of ways, a big portion of manga and anime are made _"By Otaku for Otaku"_ and seeing that the term is no longer derrogatry, it's an acceptable order of things. The industry needs to balance out the soft-core content and normal content though, sure.


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## GameWinner (Feb 1, 2014)

Black-Ice said:


> There's a problem with the anime industry?


My Little Black-Ice Can't Be This Naive.


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## Hells Malice (Feb 1, 2014)

Definitely agree. So many shitty animes need to be sifted through to find the gems.


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## Gahars (Feb 1, 2014)

H-he's just being tsundere, that's all.


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## The Catboy (Feb 1, 2014)

Honestly looking at some anime (One Piece) it makes you wonder if they've ever actually seen another person before.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2014)

The Catboy said:


> Honestly looking at some anime (One Piece) it makes you wonder if they've ever actually seen another person before.


Even worse, this anime is actually popular.

That being said, there's a whole lot of Manga and Anime sub-styles that have very little to do with actual human anatomy, see Chibi or the easily-recognizable _"Toriyama forehead"_ from Dragon Ball and Dragon Quest.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 1, 2014)

But I like my anime where the boobs are bigger than the head. 

I wish anime moved more away from "plot" and focused more on the plot.


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## Pedeadstrian (Feb 1, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> But I like my anime where the boobs are bigger than the head.
> 
> I wish anime moved more away from "plot" and focused more on the plot.


A little fanservice now and then is fine, but yeah, the stories (or lack thereof) are usually what I dislike the most about anime. I don't need to see super long mech fights, or super long love stories. Balance story, fights (if relevant), drama, and comedy, and I'm happy.

In the end, though, all I really want is for them TO FREAKING DUB MORE SHINCHAN ALREADY.


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## TheLostSabre (Feb 1, 2014)

I wholeheartedly concur with Miyazaki's statement; animes of now and nearly half a decade back are filled to the brim with fetish-laden crap. Why Japan encourage anime companies this practice is beyond me.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2014)

The_Lost_Sabre said:


> I wholeheartedly concur with Miyazaki's statement; animes of now and nearly half a decade back are filled to the brim with fetish-laden crap. Why Japan encourage anime companies this practice is beyond me.


Japan is one hell of a drug... 

On a serious note though, it's mere culture shock. Many people will disagree with this statement, but I personally think that... this is just how Japanese people are - odd to us due to vast cultural differences. Don't worry though - to them we're likely equally bizzare or at the very least horribly boring - we don't even have tentacle ra--... y'know what, scratch that, nevermind.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 1, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Japan is one hell of a drug...
> 
> On a serious note though, it's mere culture shock. Many people will disagree with this statement, but I personally think that... this is just how Japanese people are - odd to us due to vast cultural differences. Don't worry though - to them we're likely equally bizzare or at the very least horribly boring - we don't even have tentacle ra--... y'know what, scratch that, nevermind.


 

It definitely is culture shock. My dad goes to Japan on occasion for business and he is always saying that the Japanese think we're mad boring and just plain funky. :/ And noooo.... why would you give people ideas?!


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## Pedeadstrian (Feb 1, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Japan is one hell of a drug...
> 
> On a serious note though, it's mere culture shock. Many people will disagree with this statement, but I personally think that... this is just how Japanese people are - odd to us due to vast cultural differences. Don't worry though - to them we're likely equally bizzare or at the very least horribly boring - *we don't even have tentacle ra--*... y'know what, scratch that, nevermind.


That's not true. I've got a video I can share with you if interested...

But in all seriousness, you're right. I bet if someone in Japan were to see cartoons about kids with super powers that turn them into football (American) players with pro football (American) players playing themselves, they'd be rather dumbfounded. It's an entirely idiotic idea to some people, but not so much to others.


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## TheLostSabre (Feb 1, 2014)

I know there's the culture to consider but seriously, is it too much to ask to have something more down-to-earth than having a whole crowd of high-content fetishism as far as the eye can see? There's got to be some kind of balance that can be achieved...


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## The Catboy (Feb 1, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Even worse, this anime is actually popular.
> 
> That being said, there's a whole lot of Manga and Anime sub-styles that have very little to do with actual human anatomy, see Chibi or the easily-recognizable _"Toriyama forehead"_ from Dragon Ball and Dragon Quest.


 
But Chibi itself is it's own style. It's not meant to be resemble perfect humans, the style is well meant to be small and cute.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 1, 2014)

The Catboy said:


> But Chibi itself is it's own style. It's not meant to be resemble perfect humans, the style is well meant to be small and cute.


...and the One Piece style is meant to look the way it does, that's the point I was making.  It's kinda reminiscent of western comics, come to think of it - as if the author tried to draw an Anime/Manga with a western flair, but I don't actually know what the inspiration was. Personally I don't fancy it, but hey! Each to their own tastes.


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## Pedeadstrian (Feb 1, 2014)

The_Lost_Sabre said:


> I know there's the culture to consider but seriously, is it too much to ask to have something more down-to-earth than having a whole crowd of high-content fetishism as far as the eye can see? There's got to be some kind of balance that can be achieved...


It's not hard to find anime that doesn't have boobs as the main plotline. May I suggest Nichijou? It may be a bit girly, but those girls will make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


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## BrightNeko (Feb 1, 2014)

This is a strange thing to read currently because we might actually be seeing a revival of the industry soon. This year coupled with last year's hits hold some awesome promise for the future. Last year we saw things like Attack on titan, Silver spoon, Saint young men, and surprises all across that year. While in 2014 anime is kicking off with Space dandy, and Silver spoon season 2 and later down the line we're seeing a revival of mushishi in April. All of which have fluid animation and work well within the human frame.

I suppose this is coming from the over whelming amount of other material out there though at any given time. Things that normally over shadow greater titles, or an entire season or 2 of a year being filled with nothing but T&A. This at least is dying down with how Tamako market bombed last year along with the other fan-service shows.

On the one piece note, keep in mind the time it comes from. It may be playing well into 2014 but it comes from 1999 (manga 1997). The time when zoids, metabots, and monster rancher were getting started. So aside from being western influenced it is also a product of its time, just as anime was getting out of its more "serious" blood splattering days.


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## GameWinner (Feb 1, 2014)

I like One Piece tho


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## Hyro-Sama (Feb 1, 2014)

I only "like" One Piece b/c it's the only one of the "Big Three" that I can stomach reading on occasion. Bleach and Naruto have become far too contrived for my liking. All of the anime adaptations are shit doe. Anyway, Miyazaki has hit the nail on the head. Props to him for truth-telling when no one else in the industry has the balls to.


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## XDel (Feb 1, 2014)




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## lampdemon (Feb 2, 2014)

At least most Animes have a story line, here in America we only have 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' and a few older cartoons(Reboot/Beast Wars come to mind). 

Of the "Big three" I only keep up with One Piece(manga only) and lost interest in the other two(fillers OP).


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## FAST6191 (Feb 2, 2014)

lampdemon said:


> At least most Animes have a story line, here in America we only have 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' and a few older cartoons(Reboot/Beast Wars come to mind).
> 
> Of the "Big three" I only keep up with One Piece(manga only) and lost interest in the other two(fillers OP).



I fear your anime selections may be biased. There are plenty of Japanese cartoons that are weekly reset with no real nod to continuity and full of craziness. Likewise many of the superhero cartoons of recent years have serious overarching plots.
That is not to say you would not have an easier time of finding plot driven stuff that originated from Japan, but you may be dismissing things outside it too easily.


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## Clydefrosch (Feb 2, 2014)

personally, I always thought that one of the pros of anime and cartoons is how its not bound to the physics of real life humans?

so what exactly is his problem? how is the industry suffering because otaku dont look at real humans? is it suffering qualitywise as in things become sloppy? too unrealistic? because fanservice?


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## AlanJohn (Feb 2, 2014)

Guys, we need tp stop these anime wars. Watch this video instead.


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## Veho (Feb 2, 2014)

Clydefrosch said:


> so what exactly is his problem? how is the industry suffering because otaku dont look at real humans? is it suffering qualitywise as in things become sloppy? too unrealistic? because fanservice?


Otaku are by definition socially retarded. His problem is that the entire industry is comprised of people whose only model of human behaviour and interaction comes from watching anime and interacting with other otaku, creating a self-perpetuating inward spiral (circlejerk) with its head stuck up its own ass that, in turn, produces trope-driven derivative garbage.


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## lampdemon (Feb 2, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> I fear your anime selections may be biased. There are plenty of Japanese cartoons that are weekly reset with no real nod to continuity and full of craziness. Likewise many of the superhero cartoons of recent years have serious overarching plots.
> That is not to say you would not have an easier time of finding plot driven stuff that originated from Japan, but you may be dismissing things outside it too easily.


 
Ofc my anime selection is biased, last I check I was still human  ...I tend to stay away from shows that don't have a plot. As for the superhero cartoons, I used to watch them before when I had cable until they were cancelled and the new ones were the same thing with a different coat of pain.


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## Red_Savarin (Feb 2, 2014)

I used to watch like 4 series... now i just watch one piece and its because i'am a fan, almost from the beginning(and the fights are awesome ).
Almost every season you get the same anime with the school setting, and the moe characters, etc. When K-on appeared otaku love it BAM let's make more anime in this style... last one i watched was Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru and didn't manage to finish it, and the lucky star couldn't get pass the first episode because of that stupid croissant talk...
You wanna watch an anime go watch Yondemasuyo, Azazel-san or Gintama, where do you get a ninja with hemorroids and a slave driver with a lewd demon in your regular anime?


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 2, 2014)

I think the problem with the anime industry is that 95% of it is just awful wank.

Wanna know why Miyazaki animations are so popular? Because they feel like western animations.

Canadian flashtoons are the future.


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## Gahars (Feb 2, 2014)

On topic, the American comics industry is suffering from a very similar problem. The best way to describe is that the inmates are running the asylum; the people writing and producing these comics now are the grognards that grew up with them. Grognard writers and grognard artists are making comics for a grognard audience. I can tell you from firsthand experience, it's grognards all the way down.

These grognards are hurting the comics, Of Mice and Men style. That's not to say that comic fans can't be good writers, but a lot of these people are so attached to certain characters and ideas that they'll do anything to preserve them, even at the expense of the story.

"Peter Parker has to stay a loser forever because he was a loser when I read Spider-Man!"
"I love Wolverine, I'm going to put him in everything!"
"Man, Jim Gordon is so cool, I'm going to make an origin story for his coat!"

It all becomes a weirdly insular circlejerk, and yet publishers act completely surprised when everyone not jerkin' the grognard merkin avoids comic books like the plague.



Guild McCommunist said:


> Canadian flashtoons are the future.


 

Finally, someone understands my superior flashtoon culture!


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## Veho (Feb 2, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I think the problem with the anime industry is that 95% of it is just awful wank.


But to be fair, 95% of western animation is wank too.


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## Gahars (Feb 2, 2014)

Also, somewhat related...



Spoiler


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## kirbymaster101 (Feb 2, 2014)

Just to make sure on something, is western animation suffering from this as well or is it just japanese animation alone? ALSO AVATAR ISNT ANIME(buts its awesome).


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## Gahars (Feb 3, 2014)

kirbymaster101 said:


> Just to make sure on something, is western animation suffering from this as well or is it just japanese animation alone? ALSO AVATAR ISNT ANIME(buts its awesome).


 
Not really. The problems in the West are more based around marketing and management than anything else.

Good animation can be really expensive, so unless the network is going to get massive ratings and sell merchandise like gangbusters (or the network is contractually obligated to make more, i.e. Korra), they aren't going to invest. Nickelodeon makes so much more money from Spongebob repeats than new Legend of Korra episodes, it's ridiculous. Even the superhero genre is pretty much a bust at the moment. That's why there's been a flood of cheap, mostly Canadian "flashtoons" - poorly animated shows spit out by Flashplayer and then sold to American networks for a quick profit. Think Johnny Test, Total Drama whatever show they're on, etc.

Managerial incompetence is also a huge problem. Take a look at DC; they got a Batman show cancelled in its first season. That sort of thing would be unthinkable, but there you go. Marvel isn't doing much better. Man of Action has completely screwed the pooch on the whole line. Hell, new episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man pull smaller numbers than reruns of Spectacular Spider-Man. They're spending $500,000 per episode on animation that looks like this. The only reason they're still afloat is that the toys sell decently.

It's not all gloom and doom, though. Disney's producing some great stuff at the moment (Gravity Falls is the bee's knees), and Fox/FX and Adult Swim have championed the medium pretty heavily. Say what you will about Family Guy (and there's a lot to say), but Fox's commitment to Bob's Burgers has been stellar, and with Archer, FX has produced one of the most consistently funny shows for the past 5 or so years. Adult Swim is in a league of its own, willing to fund great experiments, from stuff like The Boondocks to Moral Orel to Rick and Morty. Plus, I think western animators have been more on the ball with the internet, taking advantage of sites like Youtube to hone their craft and share their works.

It's a mixed bag, basically.


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## FireGrey (Feb 3, 2014)

The only problem with the anime industry is that I don't know wtf to watch next.


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## ichidansan (Feb 3, 2014)

to put it simply, yes miyazaki is right. open spoiler if you want to read my thoughts, or are bored enough to do so.



Spoiler



now, I for one, like the big 3, but, bleach is diminishing and running to nowhere. i find it likable for a few other reasons as well(not the big plot of matsumoto but its a plus  ). Naruto seems to have gotten off the track i seen for it in the beginning, and like many other shonen series have hit the dbz faze of OP-notop-op again etc (bleach deff doing this too). in some aspect one piece is almost hitting that mark, but still seems to find a balance between it, just hope it stays that way.

now dont get me wrong, i love a little fanservice, but there are times when it does go overboard. my example is a slightly new series kill la kill. it hooked me with its rough animation style, reminiscent of slightly older generation anime, when anime had effort put into the animation instead of this

in a fight scene.

aside from that, yes it has fan service, and some of the fights are perverted. but so far it's not too bad of a show. at times it feels a bit rushed, but i find that it has a decent story. it is pretty funny, and is balanced with enough action to not be boring.

now a show that i still like to watch, but does go overboard with fanservice is to love ru, its overflowing with borderline hentai-ness. but ppl cant get enough of it. because of that, it makes money. and because of that more things are going to be made like it, with sexy big bouncing boobed chicks that get into awkward positions and sounding too damn cute im lookin at you super sonico. imma perv sometimes, but arent we all?

as for animation style, anime doesnt have to have perfect looking characters, if you cant have slightly abstract characters, then whats the point of making a cartoon/anime? just make live action and be done with it. any form of cartoon/anime/manga/comic would just be downright wrong if it looked too human, wheres the imagination in that? granted, i was turned off by one piece when i first saw how strange the characters were, but i gave it a change and found that it suits the world they're in, and isnt all that bad. now would i watch one piece if they looked like this? HELL to the no. thats just plain ol creepy, that being my point.


 

now whats really wrong with anime? us, the fans. because we like it and buy it, they'll keep pumping out the same ol things in different wrappers. sure its hard to change that, but we as a fanbase have to show a more diverse interest than just "ecchi, tusndere,shonen,romance,sword fights" which seem to be what every popular anime in the past few years have been all about.


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## Pedeadstrian (Feb 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> It's not all gloom and doom, though. Disney's producing some great stuff at the moment (Gravity Falls is the bee's knees), and Fox/FX and Adult Swim have championed the medium pretty heavily. Say what you will about Family Guy (and there's a lot to say), but Fox's commitment to Bob's Burgers has been stellar, and with Archer, FX has produced one of the most consistently funny shows for the past 5 or so years. Adult Swim is in a league of its own, willing to fund great experiments, from stuff like The Boondocks to Moral Orel to Rick and Morty. Plus, I think western animators have been more on the ball with the internet, taking advantage of sites like Youtube to hone their craft and share their works.


Yep, Disney, Fox, and Cartoon Network (at night) have the best cartoons. The Simpsons has been going down in quality for a while, but Bob's Burgers and American Dad have stuck to their pretty good status with Family Guy leading the pack. Gravity Falls is freaking awesome and I can't wait for the next season. Partly because I'm in love with anything that Kristen Schaal touches (except for her most recent comedy special, blech). Unfortunately, on Adult Swim's side, they spend most of their time with the crappy live-action stuff. The Boondocks and Moral Orel are great, but the latter is done and I think the former has been MIA for years.

If we had less shows like Total Drama and Johnny Test (which I both despise), the climate would be a lot more interesting. Anime, of course, is a whole different ballpark.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 3, 2014)

FireGrey said:


> The only problem with the anime industry is that I don't know wtf to watch next.


Relevant





ichidansan said:


> now whats really wrong with anime? us, the fans. because we like it and buy it, they'll keep pumping out the same ol things in different wrappers.



Possibly, on the other hand there are a boatload of people that stuck it out during the points in time where genuine effort was needed to keep up with anime, be it 90's VHS era or earlier 2000's and all that involved, that have basically given up on the idea. Now I am not sure of exact numbers but I would be stunned if it was not the sort of numbers that could sustain something good.


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## Gahars (Feb 3, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> The Boondocks and Moral Orel are great, but the latter is done and I think the former has been MIA for years.


 
The Boondocks Season 4 is premiering this April, actually.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 3, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> Yep, Disney, Fox, and Cartoon Network (at night) have the best cartoons. The Simpsons has been going down in quality for a while, but Bob's Burgers and American Dad have stuck to their pretty good status with Family Guy leading the pack. Gravity Falls is freaking awesome and I can't wait for the next season. Partly because I'm in love with anything that Kristen Schaal touches (except for her most recent comedy special, blech). Unfortunately, on Adult Swim's side, they spend most of their time with the crappy live-action stuff. The Boondocks and Moral Orel are great, but the latter is done and I think the former has been MIA for years.
> 
> If we had less shows like Total Drama and Johnny Test (which I both despise), the climate would be a lot more interesting. Anime, of course, is a whole different ballpark.


 

The only thing Family Guy leads in is being a shit show.

Having one maybe good joke out of a 23 minute episode is the exact opposite of "being a good show".


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## Hyro-Sama (Feb 3, 2014)

Gahars said:


> The Boondocks Season 4 is premiering this April, actually.


 

This made my day.


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## ichidansan (Feb 4, 2014)

FAST6191 said:


> Relevant
> Possibly, on the other hand there are a boatload of people that stuck it out during the points in time where genuine effort was needed to keep up with anime, be it 90's VHS era or earlier 2000's and all that involved, that have basically given up on the idea. Now I am not sure of exact numbers but I would be stunned if it was not the sort of numbers that could sustain something good.


 
im long winded so be prepared to take a break in the text wall XD

yea,I can see where your coming from. But I see that most of us, including myself at times will go for the new wrapper over anything else. Even if we were to stick it out like in the past, those shows just can't compete as well as they should. Take for example "Uchuu Kyodai aka Space Brothers". I literally only watched the first ep on a dare and complete boredom, but have now made it up to episode 89, since the 25th of jan. At its first air time, I was turned off by the description given at most sites I visited. Deeming it a bore-fest. But I couldn't love it more. It doesn't have a lick of fanservice compared to what I have on pause at the time of writing this, (sonico), but still hooks me. If more shows like this could arise and overthrow what we know as anime today, it would change things dramatically and bring new life and meaning to anime. Ask someone who doesn't watch/understand anime what their first thought is when you ask them about it, and you'll usually get the idk or the cartoon porn answers, oh and the "isn't that for kids?" answer as well. Sure not every anime will be as iconic or as memorable as; cowboy bebop, Ghost in the shell, Summer wars, spirited away, and a good deal others. But when you flood the good shows with all the rest, that are equally enjoyable, but don't leave that lasting impression except for panty shots and the like and they outnumber the more developed anime. Then its seen more, while others are overlooked,and thus brings me back to the point that if we don't change how we view anime, then nobody else will. So they will keep putting out the same things over and over.


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## Seraph (Feb 4, 2014)

Well, I can't believe no one has said this yet, but 95% of anime (everything) has always been shit!  The only reason there's a "problem" now is that anime has exploded in popularity and is more "mainstream".  In this day and age, we still likely get the same amount of "serious" anime like Gundam Unicorn along with all the fanservice (Evangelion always promised that, right?).



Foxi4 said:


> Even worse, this anime is actually popular.
> 
> 
> That being said, there's a whole lot of Manga and Anime sub-styles that have very little to do with actual human anatomy, see Chibi or the easily-recognizable _"Toriyama forehead"_ from Dragon Ball and Dragon Quest.




I'm sure Oda has seen real people before, but has anyone ever heard of stylized art?  Anime as a whole and most every other cartoon in the world do not have realistic human proportions.  And being a fan of the show and manga myself, I can understand why the manga/anime is popular.  For what it is as a shounen anime, it's much more interesting than any of the past anime in the genre have been (including things like Dragonball/Z).  And I definitely find it more entertaining than that mess Attack on Titan.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2014)

Seraph said:


> I'm sure Oda has seen real people before, but has anyone ever heard of stylized art? Anime as a whole and most every other cartoon in the world do not have realistic human proportions. And being a fan of the show and manga myself, I can understand why the manga/anime is popular. For what it is as a shounen anime, it's much more interesting than any of the past anime in the genre have been (including things like Dragonball/Z). And I definitely find it more entertaining than that mess Attack on Titan.


Oh, I'm sure everyone heard of stylization, the rest is a simple matter of taste.


Seraph said:


> Well, I can't believe no one has said this yet, but 95% of anime (everything) has always been shit! The only reason there's a "problem" now is that anime has exploded in popularity and is more "mainstream". In this day and age, we still likely get the same amount of "serious" anime like Gundam Unicorn along with all the fanservice (Evangelion always promised that, right?).


...and this sudden increase in popularity lead to the inclusion of fan service, which bizzarely enough isn't always welcome by the fans. I don't know what you mean by _"95% of anime"_ being sh*t all across the board. From what I noticed, the more aged anime's tend to have a stronger focus on the story and the focus on _"boobies"_ came later, with some exceptions. 

Of course this may very well be a _"hipster sensation"_ where something seemed better _"before it got popular"_ if that makes any sense.


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## ichidansan (Feb 4, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh, I'm sure everyone heard of stylization, the rest is a simple matter of taste.


 
yea, like i said in my first post here, i was turned off by how OP looked, then gave it a shot and seen how it fit the world they were in, and because the inital story was interesting, i became accustomed to it, and started to like how they looked.


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## Seraph (Feb 4, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh, I'm sure everyone heard of stylization, the rest is a simple matter of taste.


I know very well people have their own tastes, but was just wondering why it would be hard to believe that a show can't be popular or "bad" just because of its art style.



Foxi4 said:


> ...and this sudden increase in popularity lead to the inclusion of fan service, which bizzarely enough isn't always welcome by the fans. I don't know what you mean by _"95% of anime"_ being sh*t all across the board. From what I noticed, the more aged anime's tend to have a stronger focus on the story and the focus on _"boobies"_ came later, with some exceptions.
> 
> Of course this may very well be a _"hipster sensation"_ where something seemed better _"before it got popular"_ if that makes any sense.


 
It was a joke mostly (notice the "everything" in parantheses).  But there always has been a lot of crap and a lot/some of good.  There has been some type of fanservice since as long as I can remember, but perhaps not as graphic as some shows depict it today.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 4, 2014)

ichidansan said:


> yea, like i said in my first post here, i was turned off by how OP looked, then gave it a shot and seen how it fit the world they were in, and because the inital story was interesting, i became accustomed to it, and started to like how they looked.





Seraph said:


> I know very well people have their own tastes, but was just wondering why it would be hard to believe that a show can't be popular or "bad" just because of its art style.


I think it's _"bad"_ because I find the art style to lack a form of _"craft"_ to it - there's simplistic and then there's _too_ simplistic, but that's just me. Perhaps I too would get used to it if I were to give it a chance.


> It was a joke mostly (notice the "everything" in parantheses). But there always has been a lot of crap and a lot/some of good. There has been some type of fanservice since as long as I can remember, but perhaps not as graphic as some shows depict it today.


That's the point that's being drawn - previously fan service was there, but it was occasional, it was a wink at the audience. These days it's there all the time and it's much more explicit, it's heavily sexualized and not everybody likes that. Hell, there's animes and mangas specifically oriented around the concept of fan service. People complain about this - a lot of manga and anime fans think that it's a sign of the downfall of an art form.


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## ichidansan (Feb 4, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I think it's _"bad"_ because I find the art style to lack a form of _"craft"_ to it - there's simplistic and then there's _too_ simplistic, but that's just me. Perhaps I too would get used to it if I were to give it a chance.


 

well in a sense to me, this is legitimate only for the first part of one piece up to shabondy archipelago arc,after the time skip and the return to shabondy. compare this from beginning of series to thisthe time skip part.

notice the big difference in how the hat conforms to his head, timeskip wise he is 2 years older, but hat wise, he looks like hes younger/smaller than before.
it took a bit to get used to, and sometimes its hard to tell from the manga stand point, but in the anime its staring right in your face.

edit


Spoiler



must be side effects from third gear stretched him self a bit too much alone on the island.


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## Pedeadstrian (Feb 4, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The only thing Family Guy leads in is being a shit show.
> 
> Having one maybe good joke out of a 23 minute episode is the exact opposite of "being a good show".


We've been over this: you not liking something doesn't mean it's bad. That goes for both Mega( )man and Family Guy.


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## gokujr1000 (Feb 4, 2014)

I never really looked at anime this way before...



Pedeadstrian said:


> We've been over this: you not liking something doesn't mean it's bad. That goes for both Mega( )man and Family Guy.


 
To be fair he's quite right about Family Guy. The show is entertaining but it's waaay past it's prime and needs to die.


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## trumpet-205 (Feb 7, 2014)

On the bright side, that means my anime backlog is shorter.


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## Hells Malice (Feb 8, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> We've been over this: you not liking something doesn't mean it's bad. That goes for both Mega( )man and Family Guy.


 
It's universally recognized that Guild has horrendous opinions.
Just carry on and don't bother calling him out on it.


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 8, 2014)

Hells Malice said:


> It's universally recognized that Guild has horrendous opinions.
> Just carry on and don't bother calling him out on it.


 

Disliking Family Guy is a horrendous opinion now? Really?

And I never said I disliked Megaman. Not aiming that one at you HM, just at Pedeadstrian.


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## Pedeadstrian (Feb 9, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Disliking Family Guy is a horrendous opinion now? Really?
> 
> And I never said I disliked Megaman. Not aiming that one at you HM, just at Pedeadstrian.


Oh, that's right, you said Megaman's fans were awful, not the game(s) itself.


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## gamefan5 (Feb 9, 2014)

Gahars said:


> H-he's just being tsundere, that's all.


 
One of the best puns u have done yet. XD



Foxi4 said:


> Even worse, this anime is actually popular.
> 
> That being said, there's a whole lot of Manga and Anime sub-styles that have very little to do with actual human anatomy, see Chibi or the easily-recognizable _"Toriyama forehead"_ from Dragon Ball and Dragon Quest.


 
Yeah but manga anatomy doesn't have to follow human anatomy for chibis. Even in normal sizes, there are clear differences like the eyes. But there are limits to this. If u check One Piece, women are absolutely... well... I'll let the pic speak for itself.


Spoiler










The body is just so horribly dis proportioned.

EDIT: Ah, I see you made your answer in a further post, my bad.


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## Ryukouki (Feb 9, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> Yeah but manga anatomy doesn't have to follow human anatomy for chibis. Even in normal sizes, there are clear differences like the eyes. But there are limits to this. If u check One Piece, women are absolutely... well... I'll let the pic speak for itself.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 

Funny, I don't see anything wrong in that picture...


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## gamefan5 (Feb 9, 2014)

Ryukouki said:


> Funny, I don't see anything wrong in that picture...


 
Silly Ryukouki, you would know it you'd stop focusing on the ''plot''. XD


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## Ryukouki (Feb 9, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> Silly Ryukouki, you would know it you'd stop focusing on the ''plot''. XD


 

  I tried, and I failed. I motherfuckin' failed.


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## Narayan (Feb 9, 2014)

gamefan5 said:


> One of the best puns u have done yet. XD


I don't understand. Where is the pun?



gamefan5 said:


> Silly Ryukouki, you would know it you'd stop focusing on the ''plot''. XD


 
It's really strange for me that I don't notice the "plot" in One Piece. 
I think it's either I'm no longer that perverted, or I need something more extreme than just simple boobs.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind about bad proportions in OP, it's not like it's aiming to be as real as possible.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 9, 2014)

Oh, and I was thinking the problem with anime is the majority of anime in and of itself. Moe (萌え) style, chibi, Lucky Star, yeah, they give me nightmares.  Dubs from 4Kids certainly didn't help.


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## trumpet-205 (Feb 9, 2014)

the_randomizer said:


> Oh, and I was thinking the problem with anime is the majority of anime in and of itself. Moe (萌え) style, chibi, Lucky Star, yeah, they give me nightmares.


You think Lucky Star is the prime example of moe? Try Place to Place (Acchi Kocchi). There is infinite amount of moe in this anime. It puts Lucky Star into a shame.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 9, 2014)

trumpet-205 said:


> You think Lucky Star is the prime example of moe? Try Place to Place (Acchi Kocchi). There is infinite amount of moe in this anime. It puts Lucky Star into a shame.


 

Yikes. I think I'll pass on that one, I have a very limited list of what anime I actually watch, a lot of it I simply can't stand, and I lived in Japan for a while (quite fluent too different thread though)!  Still, a majority of it I can't stand at all. Miyazki's work I respect a lot and love his anime


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## Guild McCommunist (Feb 9, 2014)

Pedeadstrian said:


> Oh, that's right, you said Megaman's fans were awful, not the game(s) itself.



And there's still nothing wrong with that statement.


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## Foxi4 (Feb 9, 2014)

Guild McCommunist said:


> And there's still nothing wrong with that statement.


You mean the _"ermagherd u canculd magumen lagends tree - i wantud dat geam, i doughnut caer dat previus onez deednt sael veri wooel crapcom i haet u sow mach"_ sort of mentality?


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