# Neo-Nazi Group "Atomwaffen Division" Linked to 3 High-Profile Murders in US



## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 31, 2018)

An extremist hate group known as the "Atomwaffen Division" have now been linked with 5 murder cases, at least three of which made national news. The group's philosophy is to bring a new wave of fascism to America, with violent, physical activism being their preferred (and only) modus operandi. As their actions are politically motivated, they can officially be classified as a terror group consisting of at least 80 members known nationwide, of which at least a portion are capable of building explosive devices.

 Source

So uh... yeah... what are your thoughts? I'm in the US and I'm quite frankly more disappointed than anything, though I say that from the relative comfort of my small rural Iowan community.


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## Xzi (Jan 31, 2018)

I don't see this discussion going too well, but thanks for posting this anyway.  According to a recent ADL report, white supremacists killed more American citizens in 2017 than Muslims and Antifa combined:

https://www.adl.org/news/press-rele...supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 31, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I don't see this discussion going too well, but thanks for posting this anyway.  According to a recent ADL report, white supremacists killed more American citizens in 2017 than Muslims and Antifa combined:
> 
> https://www.adl.org/news/press-rele...supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017


Has anyone supporting Antifa actually killed anyone?


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## Deleted-355425 (Jan 31, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Has anyone supporting Antifa actually killed anyone?




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)


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## enarky (Jan 31, 2018)

The term 'antifa' makes my blood boil. That's one of the words the right has "invented" to stop discussion. Yes, there are people who are anti-fascist, yes, the short form is antifa, but no, this is not a club you join, it's a mindset you have. The only thing it's good for is whataboutism, to distract from the real issues. You point out real problems with racists and nazis and all you get is "but what about antifa".


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 31, 2018)

mech said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
> 
> Physical violence is listed so who knows.


From the references it quotes all I'm seeing is property damage and non-lethal police altercations


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## Xzi (Jan 31, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Has anyone supporting Antifa actually killed anyone?


According to the ADL report, 3% of 387 killings in 2017 were Antifa/all left wing extremists, ~11 people.  ~275 killings associated with white supremacists/all right wing extremists.

The report doesn't mention Antifa specifically, so it's hard to say those deaths are attributed to them specifically.


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## Joe88 (Jan 31, 2018)

Xzi said:


> I don't see this discussion going too well, but thanks for posting this anyway.  According to a recent ADL report, white supremacists killed more American citizens in 2017 than Muslims and Antifa combined:
> 
> https://www.adl.org/news/press-rele...supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017


Unfortunately what the adl doesn't take into account is if the killing were motivated by white supremacy
https://www.adl.org/education/resou...sm-in-the-united-states-in-2017#the-incidents



> Wesley Andrew Hampton, a self-declared white supremacist, and another defendant allegedly robbed and murdered a man in a home invasion.



This one in particular should even be on the list, its just a home robbery and a murder, his partner in crime was black on top of that



> Greeley, Colorado, August 16, 2017.
> Kelly Raisley, believed to be a member or associate of the 211 Crew white supremacist gang, was arrested on first-degree murder charges for the murder of his uncle, Randy Gene Baker. Baker’s wife and sister were similarly arrested. The motive was apparently personal.


murder was personal motive, shouldnt be on there



> Aryan Circle member Edward Blackburn allegedly shot and killed another man who was reportedly dating his ex-girlfriend.


yet another personal motive, its just a murder



> Ricky Dubose, a member of the Ghostface Gangsters white supremacist prison gang, and another inmate, Donnie Russell Rowe, reportedly killed two corrections officers while trying to escape from a prison bus. They were later recaptured.


prison inmates killed guards to escape, not white supremacy motivated

and this one is a weird one



> White supremacist Devon Arthurs allegedly shot to death two of his roommates for making fun of his recent conversion to Islam. All three, and a fourth roommate, were members of Atomwaffen, a neo-Nazi group.


so im gonna take a guess this went under the white supremacist killing toll rather than islamic, though its really just personal motive and not motivated by either ideology



> Robert Hunt, an inmate with white supremacist tattoos, some common to prison gangs, is accused of stabbing to death an African-American inmate, Jorge Slaughter.


http://www.northescambia.com/2017/0...er-of-century-correctional-institution-inmate
that makes 0 reference to white supremacy 
http://www.pnj.com/story/news/crime...ved-ones-stabbing-death-century-ci/758407001/
this one claims that he was white supremacist because of the family of victim (who are suing the jail) said he is
That one shouldn't be on the list at all, adl just used a poor source for that one, just seems to be prison gang violence if you want to pin it on anything


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## Navonod (Jan 31, 2018)

I've never heard of ADL until now. Were did they get their numbers from?

Edit: I'm not defending anyone here but it seems they are the only ones reporting it.


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## x65943 (Jan 31, 2018)

DrGreed said:


> I've never heard of ADL until now. Were did they get their numbers from?
> 
> Edit: I'm not defending anyone here but it seems they are the only ones reporting it.


Antidefamation league - they are usually pretty on ball - they are well known and respected. Although they do list Pepe as a hate symbol.


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## Navonod (Jan 31, 2018)

x65943 said:


> Antidefamation league - they are usually pretty on ball - they are well known and respected. Although they do list Pepe as a hate symbol.


Sounds like a another over sensitive group to me. What we need to do is gather up all the Extremists on all sides, and leave them on an island.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 31, 2018)

x65943 said:


> Antidefamation league - they are usually pretty on ball - they are well known and respected. Although they do list Pepe as a hate symbol.


Whether or not people like it, Pepe has become an un-ironic symbol of the alt-right. The creator has addressed it and expressed his disappointment, and multiple high-profile members of neo-nazi/white supremacist groups have been seen using it (most famously, Richard Spencer was actually explaining his Pepe the Frog suit pin to a reporter before he got fuckin' decked just a little over a year ago)

Obviously, though, context of the use of imagery matters


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## chrisrlink (Jan 31, 2018)

so i guess one finally broke the non violent mold of WS (I mean as the group is dedacated to violence) i'd love to see trump say "they're good people" THAT would end his career right then and there


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## Navonod (Jan 31, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> so i guess one finally broke the non violent mold of WS (I mean as the group is dedacated to violence) i'd love to see trump say "they're good people" THAT would end his career right then and there


I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say anything close. 
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/trump-condemns-charlottesville-attackers/index.html


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## chrisrlink (Jan 31, 2018)

also this prove to everyone (who are not stupid) that all terrorist are not always muslim


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 31, 2018)

DrGreed said:


> I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say anything close.
> https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/trump-condemns-charlottesville-attackers/index.html


You've got to remember that that came more than 48 hours after this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...le-over-white-nationalist-rally-live-updates/


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## Deleted User (Jan 31, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> also this prove to everyone (who are not stupid) that all terrorist are not always muslim


i think the only people who didn't believe that were ignorant at best.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 31, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> You've got to remember that that came more than 48 hours after this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...le-over-white-nationalist-rally-live-updates/


He only directly mentioned it after because the pressure was on him. He shouldnt have to specifically state one group or the other. Both sides were to blame in that predicament. I also highly doubt he explicitly ignored the reporter. It's a bait story.


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## Navonod (Jan 31, 2018)

Yeah I've read that link like three times. I don't understand your counter argument. Or the point your trying to make. 
I can however tell you that Trump has no control over who supports him. He also clearly condemns hatred and bigotry on "many sides". 
Including WS.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 31, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> also this prove to everyone (who are not stupid) that all terrorist are not always muslim


This only further enforces that. I don't know how ignorant you'd have to be to associate terrorism to one race, religion, or group of people.


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## TotalInsanity4 (Jan 31, 2018)

Memoir said:


> This only further enforces that. I don't know how ignorant you'd have to be to associate terrorism to one race, religion, or group of people.


Fox news has spent probably 15 years trying to convince its audience that that's the case


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 31, 2018)

TotalInsanity4 said:


> Most, if not all media outlets have spent probably 15 years trying to convince its audience that that's the case


FTFY. 

Fox is a general offender, but they're for sure not the only ones.


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## DinohScene (Jan 31, 2018)

For as long as humanity exists, shit like this will happen ;/


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 31, 2018)

DinohScene said:


> For as long as humanity exists, shit like this will happen ;/


This is the sad truth. It's partly why I'm so grumpy. The world just... Sucks... :|


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## Whole lotta love (Jan 31, 2018)

x65943 said:


> Antidefamation league - they are usually pretty on ball - they are well known and respected. Although they do list Pepe as a hate symbol.





> "However, because so many Pepe the Frog memes are not bigoted in nature, it is important to examine use of the meme only in context. The mere fact of posting a Pepe meme does not mean that someone is racist or white supremacist. However, if the meme itself is racist or anti-Semitic in nature, or if it appears in a context containing bigoted or offensive language or symbols, then it may have been used for hateful purposes."


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## Kioku_Dreams (Jan 31, 2018)

Gourmet said:


> View attachment 112686



Okay, ya lost me.


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## Joe88 (Feb 1, 2018)

Memoir said:


> Okay, ya lost me.


https://www.jta.org/2016/06/07/news...cho-symbol-added-to-adl-hate-symbols-database

even though the offocial rick and morty twitter uses it
https://twitter.com/RickandMorty


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## Kioku_Dreams (Feb 1, 2018)

Joe88 said:


> https://www.jta.org/2016/06/07/news...cho-symbol-added-to-adl-hate-symbols-database
> 
> even though the offocial rick and morty twitter uses it
> https://twitter.com/RickandMorty


No, I get that but all I see is an image with Xzi's post..


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 1, 2018)

Memoir said:


> No, I get that but all I see is an image with Xzi's post..


They used inspect element to add an echo around both instances of ADL 

Because maturity I guess?... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Whole lotta love (Feb 1, 2018)

Joe88 said:


> https://www.jta.org/2016/06/07/news...cho-symbol-added-to-adl-hate-symbols-database
> 
> even though the offocial rick and morty twitter uses it
> https://twitter.com/RickandMorty


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## HaloEliteLegend (Feb 1, 2018)

I too hate this "butwhatabout"ism being thrown around everywhere. If we really wanna rank idiots, Antifa stands under white supremacists, but that's not the point. People rightfully get angry about white supremacists parading around and the right-wing response is "buh what about Antifa?" And when Antifa is rightfully called out for being the clowns they are (at appropriate times, i.e. not to deflect from white supremacists), the left-wing response is something like, "but they're not killing people."

I wish everyone could just say white supremacists suck, and they're a violent force that needs to be curbed. Without anyone getting defensive. And after they, the bigger problem, are dealt with, also condemn anarchy, since anarchy is decidedly 1000% worse than the "fascism" they're supposedly fighting against (and also, y'know, stop busting shop windows). Or both at once. Point is, stop defending or deflecting from idiots who fall on your side of the political spectrum.


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## Deleted User (Feb 1, 2018)

HaloEliteLegend said:


> I too hate this "butwhatabout"ism being thrown around everywhere. If we really wanna rank idiots, Antifa stands under white supremacists, but that's not the point. People rightfully get angry about white supremacists parading around and the right-wing response is "buh what about Antifa?" And when Antifa is rightfully called out for being the clowns they are (at appropriate times, i.e. not to deflect from white supremacists), the left-wing response is something like, "but they're not killing people."
> 
> I wish everyone could just say white supremacists suck, and they're a violent force that needs to be curbed. Without anyone getting defensive. And after they, the bigger problem, are dealt with, also condemn anarchy, since anarchy is decidedly 1000% worse than the "fascism" they're supposedly fighting against (and also, y'know, stop busting shop windows). Or both at once. Point is, stop defending or deflecting from idiots who fall on your side of the political spectrum.


Supremacists in general suck. Not just the White kind.


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## 330 (Feb 1, 2018)

enarky said:


> The term 'antifa' makes my blood boil. That's one of the words the right has "invented" to stop discussion. Yes, there are people who are anti-fascist, yes, the short form is antifa, but no, this is not a club you join, it's a mindset you have. The only thing it's good for is whataboutism, to distract from the real issues. You point out real problems with racists and nazis and all you get is "but what about antifa".


You're telling me that liberals haven't invented "fascist" to stop discussions? They call people like that who don't agree with them all the time. Even now that actual Neo-Nazi groups showed up, all people seem to do is tossing a "not all muslims" or "omg I hate trump" kind of stuff.

By the way, *everyone *is against fascism. I'd make polls but they'd be assaulted by shitposters. Go ask around and tell me how many people you've met that can say with a straight face that Hitler did nothing wrong. Antifa is another excuse to be violent towards others. It's the old tale of the hungry wolf that made up a lie to the lone sheep to eat it.


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## Kioku_Dreams (Feb 1, 2018)

330 said:


> You're telling me that liberals haven't invented "fascist" to stop discussions? They call people like that who don't agree with them all the time. Even now that actual Neo-Nazi groups showed up, all people seem to do is tossing a "not all muslims" or "omg I hate trump" kind of stuff.
> 
> By the way, *everyone *is against fascism. I'd make polls but they'd be assaulted by shitposters. Go ask around and tell me how many people you've met that can say with a straight face that Hitler did nothing wrong. Antifa is another excuse to be violent towards others. It's the old tale of the hungry wolf that made up a lie to the lone sheep to eat it.


I almost got banned on Facebook due to a satirical post involving a favorite dictator.


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## Deleted User (Feb 1, 2018)

330 said:


> You're telling me that liberals haven't invented "fascist" to stop discussions? They call people like that who don't agree with them all the time. Even now that actual Neo-Nazi groups showed up, all people seem to do is tossing a "not all muslims" or "omg I hate trump" kind of stuff.
> 
> By the way, *everyone *is against fascism. I'd make polls but they'd be assaulted by shitposters. Go ask around and tell me how many people you've met that can say with a straight face that Hitler did nothing wrong. Antifa is another excuse to be violent towards others. It's the old tale of the hungry wolf that made up a lie to the lone sheep to eat it.


I usually agree with you, but you seem really biased in this one.

No, liberals didn't invent the term "fascist". Fascism's central belief is that the nation is greater than the individual. Usually, a nation consists of everybody that is one ethnicity, race, et c. Fascism is just nationalism to an extreme.

And btw, Hitler wasn't a fascist. He was an extreme fascist. The Nazi regime was a direct result of Nazism, an extremist perspective on Fascism. Fascism is as far right as Communism is left. And if some people like Communism, obviously some must like Fascism.


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## Nightwish (Feb 1, 2018)

330 said:


> By the way, *everyone *is against fascism


You'd hope.


> There is even less support, at 22 percent, for a governing system in which a strong leader can make decisions without interference from the legislature or courts. Support for an autocratic government is slightly higher among Americans with a high school education or less at 28 percent, compared to those with more than a secondary school education at 13 percent. More notably, Republicans are almost twice as likely as Democrats to say an unencumbered strong leader would be a good way to run the country.
> 
> Finally, at only 17 percent, there is weak public enthusiasm for military rule. Americans with a high school education or less, at 24 percent, are more than three times as likely as those with more than a secondary school education, at 7 percent, to see merit in the military running the government. While most people in both major political parties oppose military rule, 23 percent of Republicans are attracted to this model, compared to 14 percent of Democrats.


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## FAST6191 (Feb 1, 2018)

enarky said:


> The term 'antifa' makes my blood boil. That's one of the words the right has "invented" to stop discussion. Yes, there are people who are anti-fascist, yes, the short form is antifa, but no, this is not a club you join, it's a mindset you have. The only thing it's good for is whataboutism, to distract from the real issues. You point out real problems with racists and nazis and all you get is "but what about antifa".



While I would agree it is a concept that defies some more traditional approaches to grouping*, see also Anonymous, there would be some merit to a collectivisation and categorisation of people actively engaging, see also Anonymous. Targets, tactics, participant backgrounds, elements of philosophy (one I find quite disturbing and weak actually, mainly the justification for punching and some of the speech stuff**), there is a manual which seems to be popular enough, there seem to be a fair few people which have it as a serious component of their life, and while fractured and localised (possibly by design) then there are if not leadership elements then large enough places of dedicated discussion. Whether that is usefully called antifa, either in general or because enough self identify as it, and indeed whether such a classification might overload a word/term is a different matter.

Mindset it might have been but it might then have been used in the formation of an activist type thing, possibly with some attempts to hark back to when it did some real good decades ago before going dormant but in reality today is not so connected to that. If you are not careful and miss the switch from mindset to activism it can then make things tricky for you. Whether this applies for you I am not even attempting to divine, such a thing has happened to me several times now though.

*doubly so if we view some of the street level stuff from a military engagement type viewpoint, possibly starting with the various flags in play, probably why many such things are such abject failures from their perspective.

**it goes further but generally I would hold the world is big enough and ugly enough to take it. It is why it is there to begin with. No real danger of it taking over.

My principle objection though is so many seem to be fairly indiscriminate about those they try to slap with that label. Too many false positives then makes them hard to take seriously when a real one comes along.

Re:Fox news. This is going to have to be one of those "source?" situations. For as silly as much of what they put out, even by the very low standards of US TV news, I had not seen that. At the same time there are enough people reporting on all their silliness and things that run contra to whatever other mindsets that I would like to believe such a serious misstep would have entered my view.


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## the_randomizer (Feb 1, 2018)

Memoir said:


> I almost got banned on Facebook due to a satirical post involving a favorite dictator.



Only because Facebook is run by PC censorship pantywaists.


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## 330 (Feb 1, 2018)

blujay said:


> I usually agree with you, but you seem really biased in this one.
> 
> No, liberals didn't invent the term "fascist". Fascism's central belief is that the nation is greater than the individual. Usually, a nation consists of everybody that is one ethnicity, race, et c. Fascism is just nationalism to an extreme.
> 
> And btw, Hitler wasn't a fascist. He was an extreme fascist. The Nazi regime was a direct result of Nazism, an extremist perspective on Fascism. Fascism is as far right as Communism is left. And if some people like Communism, obviously some must like Fascism.


I meant "fascist" as insult. That's the go-to every discussion.


Nightwish said:


> You'd hope.


Everyone smart* also we really need to invest more in public schools it seems


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 1, 2018)

330 said:


> I meant "fascist" as insult. That's the go-to every discussion.


This is _not_ new by any means


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## chrisrlink (Feb 1, 2018)

is it concidered racist if you want all of humanity to die by their own hands including you?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

it's not terrorism cause your not inciting the destruction of man kind or doing it yourself just wishing the death of billions by next year including yourself


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## TotalInsanity4 (Feb 1, 2018)

chrisrlink said:


> is it concidered racist if you want all of humanity to die by their own hands including you?


That just makes you fucked up


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## chrisrlink (Feb 1, 2018)

no shit sherlock i realized that in HS (12 yrs ago damn bi polar)


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## Xzi (Feb 1, 2018)

Memoir said:


> No, I get that but all I see is an image with Xzi's post..


Putting ((( ))) around words is how the alt-right marks "globalists," aka Jews.

Of course, Donald Trump *is* a globalist, but that's far from the only area where his alt-right supporters display cognitive dissonance.


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## chrisrlink (Feb 1, 2018)

saddly some signs particulary one the Nazi's used iirc was a hindu symbol for peace originally but got turned into a sign of evil and hate


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