# If mass shootings happen or just some horrific act.. blame games and anime.



## Saiyan Lusitano (Aug 12, 2019)

That's at least what politicians do and they get away with it because they know the older generation (Baby Boomers) will agree with them as they too think video games are the cause of violence, and anime too. Oh, and saying "he had mental problems" is just another b.s. excuse they use, the shooters aren't mentally ill instead they're easily influenced with false information (i.e. they're morons who think they're doing the world a favor).

Also, if politicians blame games then they should also aim at shows and movies.

An example:



Who would have thought a pen would be so deadly. Loved this show but the ending was really.. not gonna say it so I don't spoil if anyone plans on watching it.


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## Viri (Aug 12, 2019)

Yup, I agree. If you're going to blame those super scawy violent video games, then you should blame those senseless violent movies and TV shows too!


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## PityOnU (Aug 12, 2019)

Honestly, I have no idea why they are still blaming videogames for this stuff. I thought it was a joke when I read it.

The real problem is amplified extremeism resulting from artificial echo chambers created by major tech companies successfully implementing recommendation engines to the point that it only shows people exactly what they want to hear. Gone are the days of getting generic search results/news articles that force you to acknowledge alternate opinions. Now it's just everything you agree with all the time. Down the rabbit hole we go!

No idea on how to fix that, though.


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## bodefuceta (Aug 12, 2019)

You live in a democracy and free speech is a thing. Politicians can say whatever they want (with very few exceptions). If it gets them votes, it's fair game to them. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just what the voters think. Complaining here changes nothing. You're mad but don't even understand the game, you are pathetic.

Mass shooters are easily influenced? How presumptuous of you. Maybe it's you who's easily influenced because not shooting people is the kind of stuff that's said everywhere. They actually try to change something and you just keep being pathetic at a video game forum.


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## Chary (Aug 12, 2019)

It wasn't too long ago that music was blamed for contributing to riots and influencing violent behavior. Now that the argument has run its course over music being evil, politicians have turned their eyes to video games, because they can still make people believe that yes, it's video games causing all the problems in the world. And it'll continue being a scapegoat until the older generations either stop actually thinking such a thing, or that people find something new to blame.


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## PityOnU (Aug 12, 2019)

bodefuceta said:


> You live in a democracy and free speech is a thing. Politicians can say whatever they want (with very few exceptions). If it gets them votes, it's fair game to them. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just what the voters think. Complaining here changes nothing. You're mad but don't even understand the game, you are pathetic.
> 
> Mass shooters are easily influenced? How presumptuous of you. Maybe it's you who's easily influenced because not shooting people is the kind of stuff that's said everywhere. They actually try to change something and you just keep being pathetic at a video game forum.



That's a YIKES from me, bro


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## bodefuceta (Aug 12, 2019)

PityOnU said:


> That's a YIKES from me, bro


PityOnU


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## Xzi (Aug 12, 2019)

PityOnU said:


> Honestly, I have no idea why they are still blaming videogames for this stuff. I thought it was a joke when I read it.


It's simply the most convenient scapegoat for Republicans because they know they aren't actually going to do anything about mental illness, and the video game industry doesn't have lobbyists who give them millions of dollars annually like the NRA does.  Blaming shootings on video games is basically the same as offering "thoughts and prayers," they know it accomplishes nothing but it still makes ignorant voters feel better.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 12, 2019)

Chary said:


> It wasn't too long ago that music was blamed for contributing to riots and influencing violent behavior. Now that the argument has run its course over music being evil, politicians have turned their eyes to video games, because they can still make people believe that yes, it's video games causing all the problems in the world. And it'll continue being a scapegoat until the older generations either stop actually thinking such a thing, or that people find something new to blame.


your point is sound but this bullshit has been pushed since the 90's. its not a this is new and "now" issue.


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## Chary (Aug 12, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> your point is be sound but this bullshit has been pushed since the 90's. its not a this is new and "now" issue.


Huh? That's what I'm saying, though? Rather than politicians and officials saying music influenced the riots of the early 90s (rodney king) or NWA's songs caused people to rebel against the police, now they're saying video games resulted in the mass shootings we're seeing today. It's the same song and dance, but with a different title.


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## bodefuceta (Aug 12, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> your point is sound but this bullshit has been pushed since the 90's. its not a this is new and "now" issue.


90's? Something similar probably happens since ancient Athens. Looks like you just have bad memory or was born too recently and didn't look into the past.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 12, 2019)

Chary said:


> Huh? That's what I'm saying, though? Rather than politicians and officials saying music influenced the riots of the early 90s (rodney king) or NWA's songs caused people to rebel against the police, now they're saying video games resulted in the mass shootings we're seeing today. It's the same song and dance, but with a different title.


what i mean is they have been blaming violent video games for this shit since the 90's. Not just music. Your youth is showing 
anything that the young whipersnappers like must be turning them EVILLLLLLL.



bodefuceta said:


> 90's? Something similar probably happens since ancient Athens. Looks like you just have bad memory or was born too recently and didn't look into the past.


what i meant is blaming of the medium. scapegoating is as old as fucking time, dont be obtuse .


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## Taleweaver (Aug 12, 2019)

Erm... Guys?

The source on this is Donald Trump. The guy would tell people the earth was flat if it deflected attention from his own actions. It's not like he's suddenly credible now he's attacking or hobby.


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## SG854 (Aug 12, 2019)

bodefuceta said:


> You live in a democracy and free speech is a thing. Politicians can say whatever they want (with very few exceptions). If it gets them votes, it's fair game to them. It doesn't matter what the facts are, just what the voters think. Complaining here changes nothing. You're mad but don't even understand the game, you are pathetic.
> 
> Mass shooters are easily influenced? How presumptuous of you. Maybe it's you who's easily influenced because not shooting people is the kind of stuff that's said everywhere. They actually try to change something and you just keep being pathetic at a video game forum.


That’s a George Carlin complaint, he blames people being distracted by smart phones, video games and bright and shiny things for the reason why people don’t band together and do anything and change this country. Instead they just let politicians run them over.



Taleweaver said:


> Erm... Guys?
> 
> The source on this is Donald Trump. The guy would tell people the earth was flat if it deflected attention from his own actions. It's not like he's suddenly credible now he's attacking or hobby.


I saw people complaining about Democrats making up stuff but it’s kinda weird when it’s on video of him saying it, what more evidence do they want?


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## FAST6191 (Aug 12, 2019)

Is anime being blamed this time? I did a token search of a news feed and did not get back anything.

The only thing I have previously seen Japanese cartoons being blamed for was the 80s and 90s for killing domestic cartoons and being part of the Japan takeover when they were doing well, having all the tech, somewhat supplanting US efforts on a lot of fronts and so forth.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 13, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Erm... Guys?
> 
> The source on this is Donald Trump. The guy would tell people the earth was flat if it deflected attention from his own actions. It's not like he's suddenly credible now he's attacking or hobby.




It's not a Trump exclusive though. As VP, in 2013 Biden called for federal research into video game violence as being related to real-world violence (after it was learned Adam Lanza was a CoD nut). He convened at least one meeting with video game industry reps to have them answer for his concerns and discuss possible changes.


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## Lazyboss (Aug 13, 2019)

Gamers are too afraid to harm a butterfly, and yet they blame games for mass shootings? 
From my experience, gamers are kind hearted people who won't harm anyone, while girls who play barbie are crazy psychopaths.

Got my point.


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## Taleweaver (Aug 13, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> It's not a Trump exclusive though.


No shit, Sherlock. All sorts of politicians have tauted it for years. Politicians with any credibility. Yet video games haven't changed. So I'm sure we can safely weather the incoherent ramblings of a grump whose own employees have to protect him from doing to much damage.
... Or do you think that this thread is about what Biden said years ago? Because in that case, I've got to disappoint you : this time it's Donald Trump doing the 'video games are evil' spiel,and that is causing this thread.


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## Fates-Blade-900 (Aug 13, 2019)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> the shooters aren't mentally ill instead they're easily influenced with false information (i.e. they're morons who think they're doing the world a favor).


That sounds like someone mentally ill to me.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 13, 2019)

Its corrupted politics, alienating/ridicule a specific race, bullying, long term depression from unstable family history. And of course the mental illness card.
All of these things play a huge role in shootings they only want to blame video games b/c it happens to be a young adult and don't want to take responsibility of gun control.
Our President is a coward at best. If ppl are blaming anime... then our country needs serious help since Family Guy or American Dad is ok...


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## CeeDee (Aug 13, 2019)

Video games I get, but who's blaming anime?


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## Hanafuda (Aug 13, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> No shit, Sherlock. All sorts of politicians have tauted it for years. Politicians with any credibility. Yet video games haven't changed. So I'm sure we can safely weather the incoherent ramblings of a grump whose own employees have to protect him from doing to much damage.
> ... Or do you think that this thread is about what Biden said years ago? Because in that case, I've got to disappoint you : this time it's Donald Trump doing the 'video games are evil' spiel,and that is causing this thread.




Are you this irritable/disagreeable IRL? Cuz I wasn't saying you were wrong, just saying this ain't nothing new.


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## Taleweaver (Aug 13, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Are you this irritable/disagreeable IRL? Cuz I wasn't saying you were wrong, just saying this ain't nothing new.


I do mirror peoples attitudes, yes. It sometimes has consequences.

You might want to read my post again. Where exactly am I disagreeing with you?


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## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2019)

Thank God Trump is building that Wall.
We don't want your teens on THIS side of the border.


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## Humanity (Aug 13, 2019)

Japanese cartoons are mostly immature and scummy, to be fair.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 13, 2019)

Humanity said:


> Japanese cartoons are mostly immature and scummy, to be fair.


theres nothing fair of it contributing to mass shootings in the US it shouldn't even be brought up in this discussion at all.


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## Deleted User (Aug 13, 2019)

Why don't we blame the news which is one of the most violent TV stations?


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## spotanjo3 (Aug 13, 2019)

One: Politicians are an idiots people who never played the video games and they might don't have time to watch tv and movies.

Second: Games, TV, and Movies with violence "MIGHT" be bad influence, yes. However, it doesn't mean necessarily are true. Depends on individual's view. It can effect them. For me, I watched violence all my life and it doesn't mean anything to me. Just fiction and entertainment and no effect on me at all. Yes, I hate violence from games, tv, and movies but I like some of them depends on my taste. The war was one I hate because it was so real like reality. I won't watched it. Some others that are So fictions then I don't mind and doesn't influence me at all. 

I wish that politicians can just please shut up and mind their own business and just get lost.


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## burial (Aug 13, 2019)

Its more than politicians, its your average american idiot too.

Media has always been blamed for violence....music, books, movies, games, etc....


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 13, 2019)

Media has only further extended violence, but its been a thing even before technology took place. Politicians/Trump just want to use it as a scapegoat to finger point
instead of going after parents or gun control itself. But in the recent mass shooting it was the Police fault for not taking the suspect's mother's phone call seriously which could have saved lives.


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## ShadowOne333 (Aug 13, 2019)

And to think that I used to believe South Park was just dark parody of things...
I never thought it would actually come to that.



Just change Canada to Video Games and we're set.


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## burial (Aug 13, 2019)

MasterJ360 said:


> Trump



We cant only blame Trump/conservatives for this, democrats have also went after music/games very hard in the past.

People in general refuse to accept that WE are the monsters and try to find a scapegoat for all the 'evil' that humans do.


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## MasterJ360 (Aug 13, 2019)

burial said:


> We cant only blame Trump/conservatives for this, democrats have also went after music/games very hard in the past.
> 
> People in general refuse to accept that WE are the monsters and try to find a scapegoat for all the 'evil' that humans do.


People that have the power to control this must be blamed b/c they are doing absolutely nothing to help prevent this. Most guns are being sold illegally to these ill minded shooters. I read a post that Walmart actually stopped advertising violent games out on open floors, however they are still selling guns. We all can sit here and debate violent media can cause violence, but it doesn't put the guns in our hands.


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## dAVID_ (Aug 14, 2019)

I've heard the "video games cause violence in young people" argument before, but "anime causes violence in young people" is something I have never heard before.
If anime was more mainstream in the United States, then perhaps such an argument would be made.
The most funny thing is that some people bring up video games as a cause of violence, and at the same time let their kids play M-rated games, which quite literally say "MATURE 17+" on the front cover.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 14, 2019)

Mediums that are enjoyed by youth get blamed by politicians all the time. Nothing new. Though to be fair I only heard video games being blamed not weeb shows that exist.



burial said:


> We cant only blame Trump/conservatives for this, democrats have also went after music/games very hard in the past.
> 
> People in general refuse to accept that WE are the monsters and try to find a scapegoat for all the 'evil' that humans do.



Actually in this ONE instance of current events we can. The republicans brought it up as a talking point after the latest tragedy, so since its a point they may be pushing towards a policy draft (assuming they are trying to do their job as lawmakers and not distract from the issues at hand) it can be open to criticism.


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## Urbanshadow (Aug 14, 2019)

I mean you have to do that. Next thing to blame (and usually the real culprit here) is bad parenting. And Karens would never accept that. "There's something devilish in that electronic thing making my son do bad things for sure, it's not my inability to teach them to do good".


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 14, 2019)

Urbanshadow said:


> I mean you have to do that. Next thing to blame (and usually the real culprit here) is bad parenting. And Karens would never accept that. "There's something devilish in that electronic thing making my son do bad things for sure, it's not my inability to teach them to do good".


To be honest, I do think that would help a lot (maybe not solve the problem, but it would be part of the solution, even if just a small part)
If parents were more active in these kids lives it might just make sure they dont end up going nuts.


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## morvoran (Aug 14, 2019)

To the OP, you forgot to include Trump and straight white men to the thread title.  They get blamed for everything, also.

While I do not think games are the blame for violence, in fact I believe they can be an outlet for anger in some cases, I do not think President Trump actually thinks that either.  I would bet that whoever writes his speeches or edits them must have added that in as their own opinion.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 14, 2019)

morvoran said:


> While I do not think games are the blame for violence, in fact I believe they can be an outlet for anger in some cases, I do not think President Trump actually thinks that either.  I would bet that whoever writes his speeches or edits them must have added that in as their own opinion.



So he repeated it without giving it much thought? I am sure the other republicans did so as well JLP.
uh-mazing.
(i know youre account is a parody, so take my reply as tongue in cheek)


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## morvoran (Aug 14, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> So he repeated it without giving it much thought? I am sure the other republicans did so as well JLP.
> uh-mazing.
> (i know youre account is a parody, so take my reply as tongue in cheek)



Thoughts are from Satan.  Trump doesn't listen to them as they are evil and he is not.  

When you are reading off a teleprompter, you can't always catch what you are reading and make changes on the fly.  Refer back to the movie Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy.


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## Viri (Aug 14, 2019)

Basically, blame things you don't understand!


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## Taleweaver (Aug 14, 2019)

morvoran said:


> To the OP, you forgot to include Trump and straight white men to the thread title.  They get blamed for everything, also.
> 
> While I do not think games are the blame for violence, in fact I believe they can be an outlet for anger in some cases, I do not think President Trump actually thinks that either.  I would bet that whoever writes his speeches or edits them must have added that in as their own opinion.


The accusation of being white and straight males is pretty broad, but still makes more sense than blaming anime or video games. Perhaps we should force sunbaths and gay/bisexual orientation camps upon this group? 

But erm..."whoever writes his speeches"? If there's one thing Trump does, it's making impulsive statements he won't ever back down from. I honestly don't think this is scheduled, rehearsed or thought about prior to him saying it. But to be honest, I also believe that president Trump doesn't have much of an opinion on this matter. It's like his twitter account: he just throws the common folk some bones to fight about ("here's the dispute of the day, people: "video games are evil". As usual: let the  believers bicker with the non-believers ")


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## morvoran (Aug 14, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Perhaps we should force sunbaths and gay/bisexual orientation camps upon this group?



I hope none of the Democrats running for president read your post. That may turn  into their main platform.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 14, 2019)

morvoran said:


> I hope none of the Democrats running for president read your post. That may turn  into their main platform.


I hope not. I mean, when you are white you are white. Nothing can be done about it. A sunbath will only give you skin cancer... but actually that would increase skin cancer treatment revenues... perhaps they will really do it, depends on the lobby... in the end we all live in a lobbycracy after all.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 14, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> The accusation of being white and straight males is pretty broad, but still makes more sense than blaming anime or video games.



Are you trying to generalize "mass shooters" as a white, male thing? Because that would be pretty racist.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 14, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Are you trying to generalize "mass shooters" as a white, male thing? Because that would be pretty racist.


But of course, they are all blonde white anime characters from some video game.
I mean, that picture you posted is full of super Saiyans.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 14, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> But of course, they are all blonde white anime characters from some video game.
> I mean, that picture you posted is full of super Saiyans.



Don't forget "supremacists." Gotta fit that in there somewhere.


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## Cubuss (Aug 14, 2019)

Just accept it video games make people perform mass shootings,

Monkey see monkey do,


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## Taleweaver (Aug 14, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Are you trying to generalize "mass shooters" as a white, male thing? Because that would be pretty racist.


Naah. I've got news media to do that for me. They never seem to report black gun nuts on this side of the ocean. 

... But I'm off course talking about myself. Can't say why @morvoran brought it up.


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## morvoran (Aug 14, 2019)

Taleweaver said:


> Naah. I've got news media to do that for me. They never seem to report black gun nuts on this side of the ocean.
> 
> ... But I'm off course talking about myself. Can't say why @morvoran brought it up.


@Hanafuda is probably referencing your statement of "The accusation of being white and straight males is pretty broad, but still makes more sense than blaming anime or video games." This almost sounds like you were saying that white straight males are most likely the blame which I agree that blaming people is better than blaming an inanimate object or concept such as guns, video games or movies, but they may have just thought you were pointing fingers at one group.  

The reason I brought it up is because of the leftist laim stream media and Democrats are actually pointing their fingers at one group and ignoring the violence and wrong doings of other groups.  Funny how white men are the "main aggressors" in society yet a certain demographic that is only 6-7% of our population commits over 50% of the murders.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 15, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Don't forget "supremacists." Gotta fit that in there somewhere.


lets not let this distract you from the fact that certain republicans (I said originally conservatives, but i know plenty of them that are sensible folks) are scapegoating shit.
lets also not pretend that supremacists arent garbage in our society.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 15, 2019)

WD_GASTER2 said:


> lets not let this distract you from the fact that certain republicans (I said originally conservatives, but i know plenty of them that are sensible folks) are scapegoating shit.
> lets also not pretend that supremacists arent garbage in our society.



Sure, but the left's attempt to make a case for a connection between "mass shooters" generally and "white supremacists" is just more misinformation. The Dayton mass shooter wasn't a white supremacist, the Gilroy shooter wasn't a white supremacist (although the media reported he was, the FBI said they don't see a cohesive ideology), the El Paso shooter wasn't a white supremacist, though it's not a stretch to label him a racist. (those aren't the same thing, are they? If a black person or asian person or arab person is racist to some degree, are they also _____ supremacists??) And all those people in that photo I posted above that have committed a 'mass shooting' in 2019 ... what percentage of them are white supremacists?

There are some people in the USA and Europe, presumably Russia too, who deserve that label. Most of them are just deluded, insecure idiots. But repugnant as they are, they're not committing murders to a degree that merits this attention and focus. Unless you just want to believe that every white person who commits a crime with a gun is a "white supremacist."


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 15, 2019)

I didnt know, that trump was part of the left:



The left being the only ones making the case is news to me.


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## Fates-Blade-900 (Aug 15, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Are you trying to generalize "mass shooters" as a white, male thing? Because that would be pretty racist.


I'm really doubtful about that, because:
"The White, non-Hispanic or Latino population make up 61.3% of the nation's total, with the total White population (including White Hispanics and Latinos) being 76.9%" and "African Americans total population: 14.1% of the total U.S. population (2017) " So then why do I mostly see black faces (I counted ≈63 out of 98 = ≈61.74?) The numbers are not adding up...maybe racists?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



WD_GASTER2 said:


> I didnt know, that trump was part of the left:
> 
> 
> 
> The left being the only ones making the case is news to me.



People always say one thing and do another, after all, who with any common sense these days would say "yeah I'm a racist!" These days you have to be secretly, and that's exactly what's been happening.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 15, 2019)

Fates-Blade-900 said:


> I'm really doubtful about that, because:
> "The White, non-Hispanic or Latino population make up 61.3% of the nation's total, with the total White population (including White Hispanics and Latinos) being 76.9%" and "African Americans total population: 14.1% of the total U.S. population (2017) " So then why do I mostly see black faces (I counted ≈63 out of 98 = ≈61.74?) The numbers are not adding up...maybe racists?


Yes, never expect an Internet picture not to be fabricated and biased to make a point disregarding the facts.
Anyway TBH I believe you Americans have a social problem, something in your society drives people shit crazy.
The availability of guns make it easier thereafter, but the problem of crazy comes before.
And then, regarding this last point, you might have more white mass shooters logically because let's be honest, it is easier for white people to obtain guns for several reasons, one of them: the average white person has more disposable income.


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## Fates-Blade-900 (Aug 15, 2019)

Of interest I guess
*A Common Trait Among Mass Killers: Hatred Toward Women*:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/us/mass-shootings-misogyny-dayton.html


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## morvoran (Aug 15, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> Yes, never expect an Internet picture not to be fabricated and biased to make a point disregarding the facts.


 While your statement is true, this picture can be backed up with publicly available statistics.



sarkwalvein said:


> Anyway TBH I believe you Americans have a social problem, something in your society drives people shit crazy.


  Yes, we do have a social problem and people here are crazy, but isn't this true for every country?  As for mass shootings, this is not an issue that occurs only in America.  Remember Christchurch in New Zealand?  Plenty of others in multiple countries that do not get reported on.



sarkwalvein said:


> And then, regarding this last point, you might have more white mass shooters logically because let's be honest, it is easier for white people to obtain guns for several reasons, one of them: the average white person has more disposable income.


  Not sure what you mean by "more white mass shooters" and "the average white person has more disposable income".  Those statements sound extremely racist.  To be truthful, more white mass shooters are being displayed on the news because it fits a certain parties agenda to attack people of a certain race to create fear and panic.  If whites have more disposable income, why are there more black mass shooters in America?  Asians have more disposable income than white people in America.  Why are there not more Asian mass shooters in the media than whites?



sarkwalvein said:


> The availability of guns make it easier thereafter, but the problem of crazy comes before.


  From your other point and including this one, guns are more available to criminals that can buy guns at a much lower price than retail or steal them.  Also, they don't have the pesky background checks to deal with.  Gun laws only assist in keeping guns out of trustworthy hands, so only criminals can get them.  It doesn't matter if you're crazy or not if you can get around background check by going the black market route, you can find a way to get a gun.


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## WD_GASTER2 (Aug 15, 2019)

Fates-Blade-900 said:


> People always say one thing and do another, after all, who with any common sense these days would say "yeah I'm a racist!" These days you have to be secretly, and that's exactly what's been happening.



I agree with you a 100%. I was being a bit sarcastic with my original post.

as follow up to what you just said, i would add that its commonplace now for racists to try to disguise themselves as intellectuals to make it look like they have validity in what they got to say (not refering to anybody specifically, just a common practice among these charlatans that i have noticed)


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## auntnadia (Aug 15, 2019)

Video games are widely available and played throughout the world in countries that don’t have a gun problem.

The one variable that sticks out a country mile when comparing the USA to other (pretty much ALL other countries) countries without an epidemic of mass shootings, is the 2nd amendment. It might well have been useful in the 1700’s, but 200 years later, in policed cities that hold literally millions of people, you don’t need a bazooka in your back pocket to protect yourself. 

I travelled across more than half of the states a few years ago and didn’t have to shoot anyone at all, which I think you’ll agree is proof of concept. Ditch the 2nd amendment, problem solved within a generation.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 15, 2019)

morvoran said:


> Not sure what you mean by "more white mass shooters" and "the average white person has more disposable income".  Those statements sound extremely racist.


Racist how?
It is not about race, but about inherited social status. A simple fact, if your ancestors had more money you will have more money and also you will have got better education opportunities that leads to more money again.
It might be an expression of class/status, but not really related to race per se.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



morvoran said:


> From your other point and including this one, guns are more available to criminals that can buy guns at a much lower price than retail or steal them.  Also, they don't have the pesky background checks to deal with.  Gun laws only assist in keeping guns out of trustworthy hands, so only criminals can get them.  It doesn't matter if you're crazy or not if you can get around background check by going the black market route, you can find a way to get a gun.


Yes, but mass shooters are not known criminals usually, they are usually not very wise about black market and criminal life. They usually are your average citizen with a little of crazy.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 15, 2019)

Fates-Blade-900 said:


> I'm really doubtful about that, because:
> "The White, non-Hispanic or Latino population make up 61.3% of the nation's total, with the total White population (including White Hispanics and Latinos) being 76.9%" and "African Americans total population: 14.1% of the total U.S. population (2017) " So then why do I mostly see black faces (I counted ≈63 out of 98 = ≈61.74?) The numbers are not adding up...maybe racists?
> .




The photo has been scrutinized by Snopes and the best they could do to discredit it is that it depends on what your definition of a mass shooting is. If using the "Mass Shooting Tracker" definition though, which is what the news outlets and gun control advocates rely on when they tell you how many mass shooting have happened already this year (i.e. 4 or more persons shot in one incident), Snopes conceded it was accurate. Because of this 'depends on your definition' angle though, they gave it a 'mixed' rating.

They even said this:


> In fact, the full list of mass shootings (according to the broad definition used in the August 2019 meme), is likely to skew even more towards non-white perpetrators than the meme itself shows. This is because, as we explained in our examination of 2018 statistics for mass shootings, _unsolved_ shootings often remain unsolved due to the dynamics inherent in gang conflict.




https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shooter-shooting-mugshots/


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## morvoran (Aug 15, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> Racist how?
> It is not about race, but about inherited social status. A simple fact, if your ancestors had more money you will have more money and also you will have got better education opportunities that leads to more money again.
> It might be an expression of class/status, but not really related to race per se.


  You said "the average white person has more disposable income" in your previous post.  This seems like you are saying that people of color can't be mass shooters because they are systematically poorer than whites.  When you add that sentence with this reply, you're saying that because people of color were poor at one time, they will likely never be successful.  Sounds like a very racist thing to say to me.  

Also, this "theory" about inherited wealth has been debunked time and time again just like the gender wage gap.  Anybody who works hard enough can become successful in life.  Even a millionaire can lose it all and end up homeless.  Please stop listening to the fake news on CNN and Vox as they do not think facts matter.



sarkwalvein said:


> Yes, but mass shooters are not known criminals usually, they are usually not very wise about black market and criminal life. They usually are your average citizen with a little of crazy.


  You may want to do background checks on some of the mass shooters that were in that internet photo you said could have been falsified in your previous post.  A lot of them have criminal records.  Just because you don't know of them, that doesn't mean they are not "known criminals".  The fake news media only show you the mass shootings that fit their narrative of white people killing POC's.  They couldn't care less about mass shootings from gang violence or any non-whites especially if they occur in poorer communities.

Average citizen, huh?  I don't know where you come from, but where I come from, the average citizen doesn't go shooting up people because they are angry or for any reason.  I know some crazy people and none of them has ever shot one person, let alone committed mass shootings.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 15, 2019)

morvoran said:


> You said "the average white person has more disposable income" in your previous post.  This seems like you are saying that people of color can't be mass shooters because they are systematically poorer than whites.  When you add that sentence with this reply, you're saying that because people of color were poor at one time, they will likely never be successful.


That is not true, it is flawed logic and not what I said.
It is just a matter of population and geometric growth.
With time  it will grow, and also it is not a matter of race as I said, it is a matter of previous status quo.
It is not about white, black or whatever, it is not about race actually, but when race is tied to previous status in some land then it becomes statistically tied until (and if) the situation reverts.
Just to make the point to make you see what I am talking is not about a race in particular: If you go to China or Japan, then white people resident there will not be -in average- the ones with the better economical standing.



morvoran said:


> Sounds like a very racist thing to say to me.


Look, if all you want is to argue I am not in the mood. I will leave you to enjoy your endeavors on your own. "This sounds very grumpy to me", whatever, not a kid anymore.



morvoran said:


> Also, this "theory" about inherited wealth has been debunked time and time again just like the gender wage gap.  Anybody who works hard enough can become successful in life.  Even a millionaire can lose it all and end up homeless.  Please stop listening to the fake news on CNN and Vox as they do not think facts matter.


That is not true, but again look for somebody else to argue with. And stop talking about that fake American companies, I don't give a fuck about what the media feeds you all, where the hell do you get the idea that I go out of my way to watch propaganda meant for Americans?



morvoran said:


> You may want to do background checks on some of the mass shooters that were in that internet photo you said could have been falsified in your previous post.  A lot of them have criminal records.  Just because you don't know of them, that doesn't mean they are not "known criminals".  The fake news media only show you the mass shootings that fit their narrative of white people killing POC's.  They couldn't care less about mass shootings from gang violence or any non-whites especially if they occur in poorer communities.


Again with the fake news. Boring.
Also this is moving the goalpost in some way. It is very interesting how "mass shooting" has been defined to go for those pictures.

When I talk about mass shootings I mean unexpected mass shootings in places one would consider safe, in the same vein of serial killers. That concept of mass shooting is exactly what makes the average person feel quite unsafe, because no matter if you don't involve yourself in criminal activities or if you avoid danger zones that might be raided by gangs, you can all the same be affected by a mass shooting. It does not work at all like organized crime, it doesn't really have an organized purpose that you could avoid... it is just domestic terrorism.

The concept of mass shooting used for coming up with that picture you posted is genius in the way it moves the goalpost, I really believe Goebbels would have been proud of the person that came up with that idea. This concept is not what I talk about when I talk about mass shootings, and I would say nobody else actually thinks of that concept either.



morvoran said:


> Average citizen, huh?  I don't know where you come from, but where I come from, the average citizen doesn't go shooting up people because they are angry or for any reason.  I know some crazy people and none of them has ever shot one person, let alone committed mass shootings.


Well, if you actually come from America, I think it is the only place where more than one digit mass shootings per year occur in the whole world, so even though I never though about it, perhaps yes: the place where you come from is the only where more citizens than average go shooting people because they are angry or for some reason... the ONLY place in the world.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 15, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> Again with the fake news. Boring.
> Also this is moving the goalpost in some way. *It is very interesting how "mass shooting" has been defined to go for those pictures.*




It's the same definition used by Mass Shooting Tracker and Gun Violence Archive, and reported by major news outlets anytime they want to tell you how many mass shootings there have already been this year. USA Today, CBS News, Yahoo News, Vox, PBS, Vice, Washington Post (just the ones I could easily find) have all either directly cited the Mass Shooting Tracker stats or else applied the same "4 persons or more" standard when they want to scare people with a big number.

Snopes covered this once before, again with a "Mixture" verdict, when it analyzed the viral claim that the USA had 251 mass shootings in the first 216 days of 2019.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/251-mass-shootings-in-us/

Despite Snopes' claim that there is no universal definition, among gun control advocates and the press this has been the definition used to report as fact the number of mass shootings that has occurred. They just don't give you a look at each offender, as that photo above does. Nor do they provide factual descriptions of each event ... for that you've got to really dig. There was an attempt on Reddit once to audit Mass Shooting Tracker's stats, and they uncovered incidents where a bb gun was used rather than an actual firearm, where a person who was injured falling down while running away was included as a 'shooting injury', etc. In other words, they work as many incidents into their 'mass shootings' total as they can get away with.

Here's one exception in media reporting, from several years ago, where the LA Times discussed how definitions change the statistics dramatically.

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-statistics-20151204-story.html

It was about 2015, but depending on the definition used, the number was 353 .... or 4. That's obviously a huge difference, but when CBS News runs a story titled, "There have been more mass shootings than days this year," I think you know which definition they're using. And that definition wasn't invented by the people who made the picture above.

You used the term "fake news." If so, then here's some more.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-mass-shootings-than-days-so-far-this-year/


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## Fates-Blade-900 (Aug 15, 2019)

morvoran said:


> If whites have more disposable income, why are there more black mass shooters in America? Asians have more disposable income than white people in America. Why are there not more Asian mass shooters in the media than whites?


1. Who can say there are? It's as simple as lying to the public, something the government has done in the past.
2. Maybe because Asians make up 6.9% of the total U.S. population (2017) (Wikipedia) and of that 6.9 maybe less then 2% would commit that crime.


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 15, 2019)

Hanafuda said:


> Despite Snopes' claim that there is no universal definition, among gun control advocates and the press this has been the definition used to report as fact the number of mass shootings that has occurred. They just don't give you a look at each offender, as that photo above does. Nor do they provide factual descriptions of each event ... for that you've got to really dig. There was an attempt on Reddit once to audit Mass Shooting Tracker's stats, and they uncovered incidents where a bb gun was used rather than an actual firearm, where a person who was injured falling down while running away was included as a 'shooting injury', etc. In other words, they work as many incidents into their 'mass shootings' total as they can get away with.
> 
> It was about 2015, but depending on the definition used, the number was 353 .... or 4. That's obviously a huge difference, but when CBS News runs a story titled, "There have been more mass shootings than days this year," I think you know which definition they're using. And that definition wasn't invented by the people who made the picture above.


That's... sad, and unprofessional, and unethical... but oh well, what can one expect from mass media nowadays, it is and has been for a long time now very disappointing. 

It is a little like the tale of the boy who cried wolf, they have earned the reputation they have now, and when the time comes that they need to alert the population about a real problem, well, the wolf will be already digesting us before we realize it was real.


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## morvoran (Aug 15, 2019)

@sarkwalvein. I'm not arguing. My first reply was to question you on what you said.  The second reply was to answer your questions and comments to me.  If you think a civil conversation is attacking you, then I hope you find the facts that wake you up to the truth instead of letting the opinions of others define you.



Fates-Blade-900 said:


> 1. Who can say there are? It's as simple as lying to the public, something the government has done in the past.


  While I agree that the government does lie to people no matter who you are, the truth is that the democratic party not only lies but hides the truth to keep their followers compliant to their lies.



Fates-Blade-900 said:


> 2. Maybe because Asians make up 6.9% of the total U.S. population (2017) (Wikipedia) and of that 6.9 maybe less then 2% would commit that crime.


  Black men make up 6-7% of the population here in the US yet commit over 50% of the total murders (FBI crime database).  Just because there are few of a certain group does not mean they are not capable of committing crimes at high numbers.


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## Jiehfeng (Aug 15, 2019)

Wait, why are there two threads of the same topic...


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## sarkwalvein (Aug 15, 2019)

Jiehfeng said:


> Wait, why are there two threads of the same topic...


You are right, I thought it was the same thread all along.
I guess this requires some mod with the power of fusion.


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## SG854 (Aug 21, 2019)

sarkwalvein said:


> Yes, never expect an Internet picture not to be fabricated and biased to make a point disregarding the facts.
> Anyway TBH I believe you Americans have a social problem, something in your society drives people shit crazy.
> The availability of guns make it easier thereafter, but the problem of crazy comes before.
> And then, regarding this last point, you might have more white mass shooters logically because let's be honest, it is easier for white people to obtain guns for several reasons, one of them: the average white person has more disposable income.


We always been a gun violent country. Social Problem probably. But not everywhere. And not as violent as Latin America. U.S. is mostly relatively safe. I know people here from communist regimes that say the States is heaven and that we’re spoiled with a good life in comparison.



There’s also the disparate impact to explain why U.S. is mostly safe but a few areas that makes us seem really violent. To put things in context most crimes happens in a small number of areas. In U.S. 75% of crimes happen in just 5% of street Addresses. In South America Bogota one of the most dangerous places in the world, 98% of Homicides happens in 2% of Street addresses.

U.S. is also a really big country so just a few areas can make us all look bad.



Disparate impact is everywhere if you look. Just like most tornadoes in the world happens in the U.S and mostly in the middle of the U.S. There are many people in the U.S. that don’t worry about tornadoes. Just like Hispanics being overly represented in baseball compared to their population numbers, and Blacks over represented in basketball, and Asian Americans over represented in MIT and Cal Tech.


Blacks over represented in Gun Homicide numbers. People living near the coast over representing the amount of people that have wealth compared to people living in the mountains who over represent being poor.

In Czarist Russia their University in Estonia for the 19th Century was over represented by Germans. Not by Estonians that we’re the local majority or Russians that were the national majority, but Germans.

Men over represented in being struck by lightning then Women.


Disparate impact is also used to justify that racism exists in areas when there  isn’t any on a big scale. Any where you look there is inequality everywhere. Disparate impact explains the U.S. looking like a really gun violent war zone when its not like that everywhere.


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