# Is downloading ROMs that you do not own illegal?



## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

I know hosting them is illegal, but I could find no info about downloading them. Well?


EDIT: We have now established that it is illegal. So.......the threads purpose is complete.


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## Veho (Oct 17, 2007)

*YES* 

Plain and simple.


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## Mieki (Oct 17, 2007)

I thought it depended on your country's laws.


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## Destructobot (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes, and in the US its illegal to download copyrighted material even if you own a legitimate copy.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Destructobot @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> Yes, and in the US its illegal to download copyrighted material even if you own a legitimate copy.




link please.


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## JPH (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Destructobot @ Oct 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, and in the US its illegal to download copyrighted material even if you own a legitimate copy.
> ...



It's common sense.

You could go buy the game from, say, Gamestop like it's intended, or you could download it off the internet into your computer for no price.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Read the first couple pages of any Nintendo game manual and it will talk about back-ups.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(JPH11200 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(Destructobot @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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All im finding is the it is illegal to distribute and give, but I see nothing about leeching.


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## Hiratai (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(JPH11200 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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How old are you?


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## Westside (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Destructobot @ Oct 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, and in the US its illegal to download copyrighted material even if you own a legitimate copy.
> ...








 I thought this was common knowledge by now, but then again you could be young enough to be my son (I'm 18), so I'll tell you the biggest reason that we do not post ROM links on this site anymore.  The reason is that they are illegal weather you already own them or not.  Link?  GIYF.


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## Yoshimashin (Oct 17, 2007)

The only legal way to back up a game is to manually dump your own image of it.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Hiratai @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(JPH11200 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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14


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## JPH (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> All im finding is the it is illegal to distribute and give, but I see nothing about leeching.



OH! I got you! So, people shouldn't distribute them, but if they do - it's not illegal to download them!

That's exactly right! 






Think about that last statement you made.

That's like saying: It's illegal to distribute drugs, but it's not illegal to buy them.


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## Destructobot (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't have a good link right now, so here's what Nintendo says: http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

When you download a rom, you are recieving a copy that was created by someone without the permission of the copyright holder. Owning a legitimate copy of the game does not change this.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(JPH11200 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE said:
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it's illegal to posses drugs, it is NOT illegal to posses ROMs


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## mthrnite (Oct 17, 2007)

Take everybody's word for it. Search for proof if you must, but it's not necessary. It is illegal, there is no gray area here. Maybe it shouldn't be, if you own it, but it is. Jaywalking is illegal, reaching up the snack machine hole to grab a pack of nabs is illegal, grand theft auto is illegal, downloading roms is illegal, etc...


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## mkoo (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Mieki @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> I thought it depended on your country's laws.


Is there a single country that allows piracy? 
On the other hand downloading roms of games you own.. I belive it's illegal in the US. But actually it could be disputable at other countries.


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## DoS (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't know why all the bashing against sonicslasher. He is really making up a good point here, that while the people who dump games are making something illegal, the leechers are not.

It's certainly different story with drugs and you know it, because it's not allowed to consume some of them in most countries. 

I'm not saying that it's not illegal, I don't know anything about laws, but if the law states that dumping backups is illegal, leeching them is simply legal if not stated otherwise.

He's a smart 14 year old, so stop saying he's dumb =S


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## JPH (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(JPH11200 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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First of all, let me clarify "drugs" (crack, meth, weed...).

In some cases, it's not illegal to own drugs, as some can be used for a cure (I think it's marijuana or something; strange ain't it?).

In some cases, it's not illegal to posess ROMs (if you take your copy and dump it for yourself and NOT to spread it.)

You asked if it was illegal to download ROMs, which the answer is yes - it is illegal.

Point proven, case closed.



Edit - 
@DoS, I'm not calling him dumb. Nobody was (Though I could have been a little nicer and less sarcastic, my apologies SonicSlasher) calling him dumb; I'm 14 too and that doesn't make me dumb. Ignorant may be the word?


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## Destructobot (Oct 17, 2007)

Unfortunately, something does not have to be morally or ethically wrong to be against the law.


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## Yoshimashin (Oct 17, 2007)

I believe India allows the use of piracy for video game systems, saying many game markets are not localized there. My friend from India says they sell systems (such as PS2) pre-modified.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> I believe India allows the use of piracy for video game systems, saying many game markets are not localized there. My friend from India says they sell systems (such as PS2) pre-modified.



something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystation


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## jumpman17 (Oct 17, 2007)

Downloading ROMs that you DO own is illegal. And anyone that says "OH! But what about if I delete them in 24 hours?" No, some guy decided to start saying that and now everyone thinks it's a law. But it's not.


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## Yoshimashin (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > I believe India allows the use of piracy for video game systems, saying many game markets are not localized there. My friend from India says they sell systems (such as PS2) pre-modified.
> ...



No, a Sony Playstation 2 imported from the US with a mod chip in it.


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## Calogero91 (Oct 17, 2007)

It's illegal, but lets just say its frowned upon by all the stupid fan boys.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicstorm @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> It's illegal, but lets just say its frowned upon by all the stupid fan boys.




good thing none of us are tattle tale fan boys right?


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## Hiratai (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(sonicstorm @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > It's illegal, but lets just say its frowned upon by all the stupid fan boys.
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I feel really sorry for your parents. OBVIOUSLY downloading games for free is illegal.


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## CJL18 (Oct 17, 2007)

no offense to the thread starter but your a idiot if you even have to ask this question!!  It is copyright material.  SAme with movies and music it's all illegal unless you own it, but i do it anyways


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## theorgan (Oct 17, 2007)

yes. but weed shouldn't be.


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## Lumstar (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes, but... This site itself skirts legality a little. Much of the discussion is about pirate releases, and how to run them. Even if there aren't "downloads" per se. Scene content generally leaks down to torrents and public P2P rather quick. The information here gives you a clue on when _game X_ is dumped/uploaded.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(CJL18 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> no offense to the thread starter but your a idiot if you even have to ask this question!!Â It is copyright material.Â SAme with movies and music it's all illegal unless you own it, but i do it anyways



ok, so i guess it's time to close the thread. and remember, don't be lawless!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



law is a funny word.


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## Mikerochip (Oct 17, 2007)

QUOTE(CJL18 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> no offense to the thread starter but your a idiot if you even have to ask this question!!Â It is copyright material.Â SAme with movies and music it's all illegal unless you own it, but i do it anyways



Actually, its illegal even if you own the rom - making backups is Illegal.

Same for music and movies - it's illegal to make backups in most countries.

Not all though, but most.

Just because making backups of roms/music/movies is easy, doesn't mean its legal.


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## Deleted User (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Mikerochip @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(CJL18 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > no offense to the thread starter but your a idiot if you even have to ask this question!!Â It is copyright material.Â SAme with movies and music it's all illegal unless you own it, but i do it anyways
> ...




actually, according to U.S. law, you are entitled to a backup of any copyrighted material you own for personal use only. Downloading any copyrighted material is illegal though as it is technically receiving stolen material. You must make the backup yourself in order for it to be legal.


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## Bob Loblaw (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Mikerochip @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(CJL18 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > no offense to the thread starter but your a idiot if you even have to ask this question!!  It is copyright material.  SAme with movies and music it's all illegal unless you own it, but i do it anyways
> ...



Yeah, exactly. Ever see the beginning of even the old VHS tapes, the FBI warnings? "Making unauthoized dupicates...yadda yadda yadda...is punishable...yadda yadda."

Illegal to copy, illegal to download. Whether you own it or not. 

This law most likely varies in criminality by country.


All I have to say is "wow..."


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## Destructobot (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(TeenDev @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> actually, according to U.S. law, you are entitled to a backup of any copyrighted material you own for personal use only. Downloading any copyrighted material is illegal though as it is technically receiving stolen material. You must make the backup yourself in order for it to be legal.


This is true, but it's also illegal to circumvent copy protection. Media that is copy-protected or encrypted cannot legally be copied/decrypted, even though you have the right to make a backup copy of media that you have legally puchased.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 18, 2007)

EDIT: This post has been taken down due to bad info


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## Bob Loblaw (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Destructobot @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(TeenDev @ Oct 17 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > actually, according to U.S. law, you are entitled to a backup of any copyrighted material you own for personal use only. Downloading any copyrighted material is illegal though as it is technically receiving stolen material. You must make the backup yourself in order for it to be legal.
> > This is true, but it's also illegal to circumvent copy protection. Media that is copy-protected or encrypted cannot legally be copied/decrypted, even though you have the right to make a backup copy of media that you have legally puchased.



Wrong.

--sonicslasher Posted Today, 07:11 PM 
but there is also a law that says someone elses can make the back-up for you if you are unable to make it. --

Double wrong.


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## coolbho3000 (Oct 18, 2007)

Ohhhhhh I'm so going to tell on the FBI on you


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## jumpman17 (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(TeenDev @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Mikerochip @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(CJL18 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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Actually, not true. You can only make 1 backup of something you own from media deemed a degrading material. ROM based carts are not deemed as such.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(TeenDev @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(Mikerochip @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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that makes sense.


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## Hiratai (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> but there is also a law that says someone elses can make the back-up for you if you are unable to make it.


Where are you getting this information from? Whatever or whoever it is needs to stop lying to you.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Hiratai @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 18 2007 said:
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> > but there is also a law that says someone elses can make the back-up for you if you are unable to make it.
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lol, my older pirate bro.
always did con me out of my money.........not the best source of info......


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## pkprostudio (Oct 18, 2007)

I see a lack of common sense in people these days.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 18, 2007)




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## Opium (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> Downloading ROMs that you DO own is illegal. And anyone that says "OH! But what about if I delete them in 24 hours?" No, some guy decided to start saying that and now everyone thinks it's a law. But it's not.



I just finished a unit of study on copyright law. That 24 hour thing is temporal copyright law I believe. It doesn't even affect illegal content such as ROMs though.

eg: I'm going to steal this car, but if I give it back within 24 hours it's not stealing, right?

Downloading ROMs is illegal, making copies of your own games is also quite often illegal.


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## Urza (Oct 18, 2007)

Didn't we _just  _ have a discussion about this in another thread?


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## Lily (Oct 18, 2007)

Copyright law sucks.

Downloading ROMs that you own or don't own is illegal.

However, you're here - obviously you're not all torn up inside about it.


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## modshroom128 (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Qrayzie @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> Copyright law sucks.
> 
> Downloading ROMs that you own or don't own is illegal.
> 
> However, you're here - obviously you're not all torn up inside about it.


i am... i follow piracy laws


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## Mewgia (Oct 18, 2007)

[email protected] people who think Nintendo's "laws" actually hold any water

Really now.  We're talking about the same company who came up with friendcodes to "protect minors" or some shit. They make great games and systems, and have really good customer support, but in things like their little laws they make now sense. BUT LETS NOT MAKE THIS THREAD ANY DUMBER MY TURNING IT INTO A FANBOY WAR, K?


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Mewgia @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> [email protected] people who think Nintendo's "laws" actually hold any water
> 
> Really now.Â We're talking about the same company who came up with friendcodes to "protect minors" or some shit. They make great games and systems, and have really good customer support, but in things like their little laws they make now sense. BUT LETS NOT MAKE THIS THREAD ANY DUMBER MY TURNING IT INTO A FANBOY WAR, K?



agreed.


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## jumpman17 (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Mewgia @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> [email protected] people who think Nintendo's "laws" actually hold any water
> 
> Really now.Â We're talking about the same company who came up with friendcodes to "protect minors" or some shit. They make great games and systems, and have really good customer support, but in things like their little laws they make now sense. BUT LETS NOT MAKE THIS THREAD ANY DUMBER MY TURNING IT INTO A FANBOY WAR, K?



The ones I mentioned? They aren't Nintendo laws, they are federal laws.


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## Sonicslasher (Oct 18, 2007)




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## Hiratai (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(sonicslasher @ Oct 18 2007 said:


>


Posting that picture practically answers the questions to your thread.


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## OrcMonkey© (Oct 18, 2007)

poo that really really suck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




























 . I mean it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

























 ..................... really


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## Hiratai (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(kirbyman123 @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> poo that really really suck
> 
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> 
> ...


Stop while you're ahead.


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## Mewgia (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Mewgia @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > [email protected] people who think Nintendo's "laws" actually hold any water
> ...


I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the people who backed up their response to OPs question by citing some "law" that Nintendo has placed on their website/ in their manuals.


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## jumpman17 (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Mewgia @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(Mewgia @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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Ah, well, then nevermind.


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## modshroom128 (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Hiratai @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(kirbyman123 @ Oct 18 2007 said:
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> > poo that really really suck
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the only way copyright laws can be shutout is with more copyright infringment  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(offtopic: i want to wreck the shit out of that bitch in your sig.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## Hiratai (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(modshroom128 @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Hiratai @ Oct 17 2007 said:
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> > QUOTE(kirbyman123 @ Oct 18 2007 said:
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How old are you?

You must be 12, if you refer to every girl as a bitch.


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## phoood (Oct 18, 2007)

Thats probably him, her, it or a random pic of a girl, boy, it.  iirc hiratai was into gfx design, no?


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## Hiratai (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(phoood @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> Thats probably him, her, it or a random pic of a girl, boy, it.Â iirc hiratai was into gfx design, no?


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## martin88 (Oct 18, 2007)

It's legal in Canada.


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## Lily (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(martin88 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> It's legal in Canada.



Haha, no it isn't.

The decision in Canada affected P2P distribution of music; which the courts have ruled legal. See the full text of the case here. This decision doesn't apply to P2P in general - downloading everything else is still illegal, it's just that there have been no court cases to decide the issue one way or another. It doesn't make Canada a haven for illegal downloading, it just makes Canada a haven for downloading music at the moment.

In fact, just recently (click here), the CRIA filed documents in court to oppose the expansion of the private copying levy (the tax on all blank recordables that we pay) to include iPods, because it "broadens the scope of the private copying exception to avoid making illegal file sharers liable for infringement". They are really out to turn the decision around and have P2P music sharing declared illegal - so much so that they're now fighting the levy they fought tooth and nail to implement - it will be an interesting case to watch.


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## Hiratai (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(martin88 @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> It's legal in Canada.


Yeah, that's why they stop Canadian searches on Demonoid, right?


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## lookout (Oct 18, 2007)

It's illegal to backup your original in UK?


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## Destructobot (Oct 18, 2007)

This thread is a perfect example of why the internet is the best place to get legal advice.


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## Veho (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(lookout @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> It's illegal to backup your original in UK?



Yes. I have a friend in the UK, and I almost fell on my ass half laughing half in shock when he told me of the copyright regulations there. You're not even allowed to transfer your (legally owned) CDs to your mp3 player. Or rip them to your PC, or rip movies from your own DVDs to transfer to your video players... The authorities will turn a blind eye on it, because, come _on_, it's ridiculous, but in the cold unforgiving eyes of the current law, it's a crime.


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## test84 (Oct 18, 2007)

and only way a *roaming* bot can answer urs too!


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## legendofphil (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(veho @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> QUOTE(lookout @ Oct 18 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > It's illegal to backup your original in UK?
> ...



Its only because a legal backup is considered a true 1:1 copy, not a rip. So ROMs aren't considered a backup because a 1:1 copy is the extact same product (ie, buying another copy). Same with copy protected items such as games and DVD Videos.


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## jimmy j (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(veho @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> QUOTE(lookout @ Oct 18 2007 said:
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> 
> > It's illegal to backup your original in UK?
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 I did not know that. You are right though

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalmusic/0,390...49284767,00.htm


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## Smuff (Oct 18, 2007)

Actually I believe in the uk it IS legal to copy your CD onto your mp3 player, but as soon as you listen to them both at the same time on different equipment it becomes an offence.
t least that's what I heard from somewhere.....


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## notnarb (Oct 18, 2007)

According to Nintendo, it's illegal to make backups of your own game because you have 2 copies at once (mentioned above in this thread) so it must be legal if you use a copying method that destroys the original at the exact moment of completion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (but then you have no way of proving to anyone that you own the originals >


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## Urza (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(Destructobot @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> This thread is a perfect example of why the internet is the best place to get legal advice.


I hope you're being sarcastic. Otherwise there's no hope for you.


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## Eruonen (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(JPH11200 @ Oct 17 2007 said:


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Where I live, in the Netherlands, you are legally allowed to download music and movies as long as you don't upload them, so what he was saying wasn't that strange.


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## Psyfira (Oct 18, 2007)

QUOTE(rambozotheclown @ Oct 18 2007 said:


> Actually I believe in the uk it IS legal to copy your CD onto your mp3 player, but as soon as you listen to them both at the same time on different equipment it becomes an offence. At least that's what I heard from somewhere.....


I thought I'd read that it was legal to copy your own CD's on BBC News a while back, but all I can find is a few articles from 2006 calling for the law to be changed to allow it. Which basically mean that it's still illegal atm, but the music industry powers-that-be don't care if you do. It's probably one of those slow-crawl through the paperwork things, give it another year or so to get through the system and it'll probably be legalised.


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## pkprostudio (Oct 19, 2007)

I don't know why we are still talking about this. Of course no one cares what the laws say.


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## Mehdi (Oct 19, 2007)

QUOTE(mkoo @ Oct 17 2007 said:


> QUOTE(Mieki @ Oct 18 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought it depended on your country's laws.
> ...


Bangladesh


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