# State of the GBA / DS Scene



## daRealist (Aug 21, 2006)

The Nintendo DS and GBA scene is in bad shape, I don't know for sure why this has happened, but I've decided to speculate a bit. 

First, I'll give some history (which is only as good as my memory) ... the console scene started back in the early 1990s on BBSes all over the world. For those of you who are not familiar with BBSes go check out wikipedia for more info. SNES and Genesis/Megadrive copiers were quite expensive in those days, the cost was $400+ for a decent unit. I was a kid at the time and had no way to come up with that kind of cash. However, I was lucky enough to have weaseled my way onto a ton of BBSes and at least got to take a little peak at the console scene at the time. Groups like Anthrox, Sneakers, Elitendo, Premiere, RomKids and others were coding trainers/intros and dumping games as fast as they could get their hands on them. Although I don't know the exact numbers of people who were part of the console scene, but there were probably 50-100 people doing work for the SNES and Genesis/Megadrive consoles. Competition was fierce and the people involved in coding/dumping/training were having fun trying to win releases from their rivals. The end result was, people involved the console scene had access to new roms quickly and had trainers, intros and other cool stuff to play with (that their friends who were buying the games didn't have). If you weren't part of the scene in some way, you were basically shut out entirely. No Internet, no fserves, no rapidshare and no usenet.

At some point in the mid-90s, BBSes died out when the scene started using the Internet for communication. Around this time, after spending some time on IRC chatting with my friends from various groups and getting my warez from ftps, I decided that this wasn't for me. It wasn't the same as BBSes and wasn't worth my time anymore. The good times of having a monthly conference call with your buddies was over and I didn't like it.

Years later I bought a Gameboy Color and a flash cart for it. I decided to venture back onto IRC to get my hands on new roms. At first I was a bit lost and I couldn't find any of the people I used to chat with 5 years ago. I was lucky to stumble upon a channel that had fserves with new GBC roms. In this channel there were around 100 people, of which most people were rom collectors. Personally, I just wanted the new GBC roms so I could put them on my flashcart. At this time the GBC scene was very active, there were several big groups and dozens of people involved in the core of the scene. Releases came quickly and they were plenty of intros/trainers to look at. I later decided to team up with one of these groups and write some trainers for GBC. The benefit I received from writing these trainers was that I had access to roms a few minutes after they were released. Not being involved with a group, I often had to wait 4 hours or more to get the latest GBC rom (which were mostly under 500kb).

Near the end of the GBC scene, the GBA appeared and all the big GBC groups like Capital, Eurasia, Lightforce, Venom and Menace had interest in continuing on to the GBA scene. Early on in the GBA scene we saw releases from these giants and even the first trainer coming from Anthrox (snes group). If you take a look back at the first couple hundred GBA releases you'll see who the big players were. In September of 2001, Capital put out their final release: Lifesaver_v1.9.7-CPL. If you can dig it up somewhere, the nfo is an interesting read. Two console scene legends, Rotox and Wayne Kerr, explain why they are calling it quits after having such a great run (although Wayne Kerr couldn't help himself and continued to do things for Venom after this). Here is a small portion of that nfo as written by Wayne Kerr, who is universally recognized as one of the finest coders in the history of the console scene:

“It's a shame we have to close Capital, but we no longer feel welcome in what currently passes for "the scene". Where once people were respected for their technical ability, attitude and friendship, todays scene is run by forum-monkeys and rom-dumping chimps... The past few days of listening to  people who have done exactly *NOTHING EVER* for the scene bitch about the use of intros (which brought about a sense of deja-vu for those of us in CPL, as we faced the same 2 years earlier when trying to introduce them to the GBC scene) have just driven home to us precisely how pathetic things currently are.”

Since you have probably never had the privilege to chat with him, I will say that he is possibly one of the nicest people you will ever meet online. So don't think this guy is just some scener-elitest-snob, because he really isn't and he has devoted countless hours of his time to make releases for you

.So, we jump to about one year later to 2002 and the GBATemp “community” was born. What was GBATemp about at that time? Providing links to websites which hosted GBA roms. You can read about this also on wikipedia, but I'll provide a short summary. According to Kivan (founder of GBATemp) there was a lack of fserves available and getting roms was too difficult therefore there was the need for GBATemp. Meanwhile the real GBA scene began to fall apart as GBATemp grew larger and larger. The admins of this forum now boast that GBATemp has over 30,000 members. 

We move onto Nintendo DS and the tradition of the Snes, GBC and GBA scene is all but dead. It's quite obvious that there are tens of thousands of people with the equipment needed to play and dump roms for the GBA and Nintendo DS. Compare this back to the SNES/Megadrive days where there were only hundreds of people who had the equipment but dozens of dumpers and coders flocked to the scene. Today the GBA Scene consists of three groups: WRG, Caravan and Rising Sun while the NDS scene consists of two: WRG and Legacy. There are maybe 5 active coders and less than 10 active suppliers. What has happened here? What's gone wrong? You would think with a “community” of over 30,000 people, some of them would make a contribution every now and then. 

Obviously that isn't the case, because we rarely see anything coming outside of those few small groups. The GBATemp forum is a community of leechers and the IRC channels bearing the same name are the greediest leeches of them all. When a group releases a new rom, if it isn't available via Rapidshare within minutes all hell breaks loose. While years ago everyone was content on waiting a few hours for a GBC rom, what has changed? The leechers have become more greedy and websites like this one only encourage them.

It's funny to look at the GBATemp of today and the GBATemp of the past and compare the two. What's happened here is that all the moderators and admins have gotten famous off the work of other people (the release groups). The forum members feel that they are entitled to every rom whenever they decide that it's in stores (regardless of the truth). When a group releases a trainer, the typical response is either “Why this game?” or “I want a trainer for this other game”. GBATemp's staff gets free flash card equipment by whoring out the frontpage to advertisements, the release groups get nothing.

What GBATemp is doing is wrong, and it is more wrong than what the release groups are doing by dumping roms. Release groups dump roms and make trainers ... If the release group didn't dump the rom it would be dumped by someone else at some other point. Take a look at MAME or other systems that aren't centered around the sale of illegal copying devices. The release groups do not hurt the game makers, given the way piracy has been in the last 20 years+ or so, everything that can be copied will be copied. GBATemp makes public to thousands upon thousands of people precise instructions on how to steal NDS and GBA games. While on the other hand GBATemp posts a hypocritical policy of “not condoning piracy”. Why has the handheld scene fallen apart? My personal theory is that it's the result of websites like GBATemp and the behavior of their members.

I'm not going to reveal my identity in this post, some will know who I am and others will not. It's sad to me that once there was a scene based upon friendship, competition and free games that no longer exists. I know there is no way to change this, but I really wanted to get this off my chest. Thank you for reading this.


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## TPi (Aug 21, 2006)

I agree with you sir, and your use of the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 emoticon,  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  It seems people have close to 0 patience and have gotten so spoiled that they demand things that used to be a priviledge.  I wasn't around for the BBS period, but it seems like from what you say it seems like it had a great sense of community, and that when you contributed you actually earned something.  If people would learn to give something back, have some patience, take the time to educate themselves, and just have some respect, it would do wonders.

Thanks for sharing, nice read.


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## kevo_the_man (Aug 21, 2006)

Thank you for that bit of history, that although I have read before from outsiders; you were once an insider, which makes it all seem so much more real and true, which it is.
I am a leecher, but I have no way to help the "community" out at all - so I'm forced to leech =)
Thanks for the read!


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## tshu (Aug 21, 2006)

Good read. I was nowhere near the "scene" back as far as you were, but I agree with alot of what you have to say regarding the lack of patience that people have, and whatnot.


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## TPi (Aug 21, 2006)

Also for those who are too lazy to look it up, here's the whole .nfo he mentioned.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




CODE Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â /\
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â _/ \\_
Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \____/
Â__ Â________ ____/\ Â Â __ __________ Â _______\___ ____/\ Â _______
_____| Â | Â Â ||___________>_________>__/______/


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## Seicomart (Aug 21, 2006)

Excellent post!

The real hardcore, and original gamers from pre-pong era mostly all have a life and kids now, which is far more rewarding than feeding the rom kiddies out there..In essence, most old schoolers have no time for the idiots that make up the under 35 population in most countries these days, and ergo have no desire to feed the same dipshits online either.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

What right do you have to complain? What you said is that you have been a leecher for a damn long time and feel the need to complain in an area that doesnt involve you. 

Also, Fuck Capital. If they couldnt take it, so be it. People dont want intros. If you want to be a poumpus asshole and stick your name somewhere, telling the world you steal shit, well, thats what nfos are for. Ive released some games I have purchased myself, and I never put any intros into my games (they were PS2, its fairly easy to do.)

So dont sit there complaining. If you are so upset with the "Scene," then start dumping and releasing ROMs in your own private network. 

Its a sad, sad day when pirates complain. They get the world for free and still find something to bitch about.


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## daRealist (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> What right do you have to complain? What you said is that you have been a leecher for a damn long time and feel the need to complain in an area that doesnt involve you.
> 
> Also, Fuck Capital. If they couldnt take it, so be it. People dont want intros. If you want to be a poumpus asshole and stick your name somewhere, telling the world you steal shit, well, thats what nfos are for. Ive released some games I have purchased myself, and I never put any intros into my games (they were PS2, its fairly easy to do.)
> 
> ...



I think you missed my point somewhere ... I'm not a leecher. As for Capital? They provided 100s of GBC releases and never asked anything in return. Please have at least a little respect for what they have done.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> What right do you have to complain? What you said is that you have been a leecher for a damn long time and feel the need to complain in an area that doesnt involve you.
> 
> So dont sit there complaining. If you are so upset with the "Scene," then start dumping and releasing ROMs in your own private network.



Shut up. That post is so dumb I feel compelled to smash a vodka bottle over your head.

Yeah, fuck capital for being the only grp in the GBC scene worth a damn.

FUCK YOU FOR BEING A WORTHLESS GBATEMP LEECHER!


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

Yeah, im a leecher. Good one. 

Any other lame ass flames you people want to throw at me? I wouldnt want to be hit with any more vodka bottles...

What I was saying is that Capital just gave up. They didnt bother dealing with their releases in certain ways. I know for a fact you can code intros into a game so that if they were to be removed, the ROM would be useless. There was no reason to shut down.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> Yeah, im a leecher. Good one.
> 
> Any other lame ass flames you people want to throw at me? I wouldnt want to be hit with any more vodka bottles...
> 
> What I was saying is that Capital just gave up. They didnt bother dealing with their releases in certain ways. I know for a fact you can code intros into a game so that if they were to be removed, the ROM would be useless. There was no reason to shut down.



You are stupid. See? No zing required.

You know I'm right.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

How do you figure?


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> How do you figure?



You have a rom numbering related thing in your sig, your avatar is from double dragon, you insulted the best GBC group, and you attacked someone you have no idea who is.

That enough reasons?


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## jumpman17 (Aug 21, 2006)

> The admins of this forum now boast that GBATemp has over 30,000 members.


So umm...what does that have to do with anything? GBAtemp somehow is responsible for the death of the "scene"? I'm sure the fact that now that internet access can be achieved from a phone and that information is now more readily available then ever and that information on how to play ROMs is also readily available has nothing to do with it.



> What has happened here? What's gone wrong? You would think with a “community” of over 30,000 people, some of them would make a contribution every now and then.


Considering in most .nfos groups say they are only interested in people who can code or provide an early release, everything else is taken care of. They don't seem to desperate for average joes like me who buy a game when I happen to make it to the store.



> The GBATemp forum is a community of leechers and the IRC channels bearing the same name are the greediest leeches of them all. When a group releases a new rom, if it isn't available via Rapidshare within minutes all hell breaks loose. While years ago everyone was content on waiting a few hours for a GBC rom, what has changed?


Apparently nothing:


> I later decided to team up with one of these groups and write some trainers for GBC. The benefit I received from writing these trainers was that I had access to roms a few minutes after they were released. Not being involved with a group, I often had to wait 4 hours or more to get the latest GBC rom (which were mostly under 500kb).


You didn't seem too content on having to wait 4 hours for half a meg file.



> What's happened here is that all the moderators and admins have gotten famous off the work of other people (the release groups).


I didn't know I was famous...besides being told to basically die in an .nfo for a NDS ROM one time...that was pretty awesome.



> GBATemp makes public to thousands upon thousands of people precise instructions on how to steal NDS and GBA games.


Where are these precise instructions at?

----------------------------------------------

I'm so tired of hearing about how the "scene" is dead. Obviously these groups that release these games find something worth the while otherwise they wouldn't still be doing it. If they were tired of "leechers", then they would not release the ROMs to the public and keep them to their own little circle of people "worthy" to have them.

*EDIT:* Also, people do try to release games. Look on Torrent sites, look at all the people who have put PS2 and XBOX isos on the internet. But the "scene" doesn't count them as official until a known group puts the exact same file on the internet.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you figure?
> ...




What does that have to do with leeching? Whats wrong with my avatar? I mocked them for being pussies. I mocked him for being a pussy.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 20 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 20 2006 said:
> ...



I'm not even going to respond.  Would anyone like a cupcake?  I have them frosted in all sorts of delicious flavors!


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

Yes I will take one.  Thank you.


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## outphase (Aug 21, 2006)

it didn't take long for a dick-swinging contest to begin


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## Rangent (Aug 21, 2006)

You guys make TV useless which is great!  All the entertainment I need tonight.  I love flame topics!


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

Glad to make you happy.








::EDIT::

Ok, im done with MTW. He has yet to make a point. Want me to join in? "You are an IDIOTTTT!!! OHHH YOU SUCK!!!!" 

Yeah. I totally win.

Someone with something interesting to say, please talk to me.


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## speechless (Aug 21, 2006)

the fact that people who have no idea what has gone on in the scene, feel compelled to give their 2 cents i find really amazing.  it's like a giant wormhole of retardedness just crashes down upon this forum in waves at times.  happens in alot of threads, not just this one, so don't get me wrong. if you have to ask, 'does he mean me? am i a retard?'.  then yes, unfortunately if you have to ask, i have to answer, you are.  you guys are missing the big point of the topic of this thread. gbatemp members, some mods included, are lazy leeching do-nothings out to get free product or services off the work of release groups.  cuz without roms to put on the portal, you got no news, just opinions and reviews.  so in a big way, depending on a steady supply of fresh rom news is what keeps this place afloat, and having the sister on irc, the nds/gba/psp ones there are, makes it sometimes all to easy. i only get upset when i see someone taking for granted the very system they depend on.  eventually lack of gratitude makes you appear greedy and selfish.  thats what has happened here, people are so accustomed to things being spoon fed to them that it is really upsetting to continue letting this 'cancer' spread.  the major cause here isn't really the leechers fault as much as it is the popularity of one of the most famous handhelds of all time.  it attracts alot of new rom puppies into this.  they don't remember how hard it was back in the day to get roms and expect always someone will just rapidshare them new stuff and off they go.  this trend has reached such a point that i doubt it can ever be stopped.  it's a cancer that comes with popularity.  maybe as gba dies off and wii/ps3 come into the picture these retards with their demanding ways will shift their focus and depart our beloved handheld channels and start to degrade our sure to pop up, wii and ps3 channels. who knows, i just hope that the people tossing rocks both and forth here realize the potential audience here is 30,000 strong, so don't troll retarded comments just to get a rise outta somebody.  let's keep the discussion above 8th grade level, thx.

if any of my comments seem off hand, consider it so, this is just my take, my opinion on how i see things personally.  if your upset and feel the need to flame, don't, because frankly you'll only be making yourself look more retarded.. 







 LONG LIVE GBA!


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(speechless @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> the fact that people who have no idea what has gone on in the scene, feel compelled to give their 2 cents i find really amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more. BTW, USE PARAGRAPHS!


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

I know full well whats going on in the scene. I sure as hell do not leech titles. I share them with the public. I, maybe with a few others, buy DS games. I do not buy EVERY game of course, but I do show my support when I like a game. Calling me a leecher is insulting.

::EDIT::

I am not sure if that post was grammatically correct. Im very tired, so ignore my poor sentance structure.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> I know full well whats going on in the scene. I sure as hell do not leech titles. I share them with the public. I, maybe with a few others, buy DS games. I do not buy EVERY game of course, but I do show my support when I like a game. Calling me a leecher is insulting.



Tell me once you released something, at that point and that point only you are no longer a leecher.


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## Blebleman (Aug 21, 2006)

The Scene hasn't died ; it's changed.

Evolved? Maybe.

What's happened is that with the venue of more user-friendly options, more "idiots" have access to the stuff that was exclusive to the gifted.

I was there, dialing into BBSs hosted in some random dude's house, spending credits to get that extra NES ROM. (and played LORD while doing it)

People change, technology changes, and the world itself changes. I've grown up, and I've learned to evolve with my surroundings. 
Sure some games had intros, but why do you care? You're not paying for that game anyways. Don't spit on the hand that feeds you.
All the people from every scene have my respect, since they have done much more than piracy, those people are pioneers for a lot of technology.

I personally think GBAtemp is the main reason there still *is* a scene.

GBAtemp *is* the scene, in it's current form.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > I know full well whats going on in the scene. I sure as hell do not leech titles. I share them with the public. I, maybe with a few others, buy DS games. I do not buy EVERY game of course, but I do show my support when I like a game. Calling me a leecher is insulting.
> ...




My INITIAL post stated that I have released games.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Blebleman @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> The Scene hasn't died ; it's changed.
> 
> Evolved? Maybe.
> 
> ...




Im with you.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> ...



Name them.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> ...




Thats up to you to find out. Ive never made any scene releases, I dont care enough to have my dumps numbered and spread. I am on a private game tracker and dump and release games on there for the people who help me out and give me what I need. Its a helpful community.


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## daRealist (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Blebleman @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> The Scene hasn't died ; it's changed.
> 
> Evolved? Maybe.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you were on WWIV bbses, sorry but that wasn't the old scene. Ever hear of Vision-X or PCBoard?

The scene really hasn't evolved, it has died man. Consider yourself lucky that some sceners from back in the day still care enough to dump roms for people like you. GBAtemp hasn't contributed anything to the scene in years and that's a fact.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> QUOTE(-MTW- @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE(Yoshimashin @ Aug 21 2006 said:
> ...



Ok, so you never dumped anything in advance.

OH BOY, PRIVATE GAME TRACKERS! You are a torrent lamer. Why would you brag about that?


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

-MTW- said:


> Yoshimashin said:
> 
> 
> > -MTW- said:
> ...




I never bragged. You are seeing things that im just not saying. What have you done? Im pretty sure nothing.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

Yoshimashin said:


> -MTW- said:
> 
> 
> > Yoshimashin said:
> ...



Boy, I've done more than you can imagine. I don't even need to dig through my memory to get the complete list for your lame ass.


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## Hunter (Aug 21, 2006)

if this topic goes out of control and more. i will close it and give warnings to any other member that even has a slight feeling that they wish to derail the post.


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## DrKupo (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Hunter @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> if this topic goes out of control and more. i will close it and give warnings to any other member that even has a slight feeling that they wish to derail the post.



Warning? I was expecting ban. You guys reallly laid back on the heat since the last time I was active here.


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## Yoshimashin (Aug 21, 2006)

[qoute]
Boy, I've done more than you can imagine. I don't even need to dig through my memory to get the complete list for your lame ass.
[/quote]

Im hope you are proud of what you have done. I, for one, do not care. I have no idea why you continue to flame me for reasons that have no base and meaning. I am going to stop to respect the tech, but just to let you know...

No one cares.

Love ya much,


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## gokong (Aug 21, 2006)

Sounds like a old man standing in his yard screaming at the kids on the street.


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## Lukeage (Aug 21, 2006)

I don't normally reply to these types of things as they just turn into huge flamewars, but I've had a little nudge from someone so I'll talk.

This problem isn't just part of the GBA/NDS scene, it's not even just a problem with and movie/game/porn/etc scene. It is a problem with most aspects of life. You've got people working on all kinds of things around the world, be it out of their own interest, for the recognition and glory, or be it for profit, and you'll always have a mass of people ready to criticise their every move. Either you take both the good and the bad, or leave it all behind.

People also dislike change, thats why we always talk about the 'good old days' when things were better. This again in not inherent to the GBA scene, but most aspects of life. We constantly have to adapt to new ideas and it always seems like a hassle, but its a survival of the fittest (I'm using that somewhat loosely).

People come, people go, things become a fad and things die off. Its the usual cycle of things that has been happening for thousands of years. No use arguing against it because it won't get you anywhere.

Just my 2 cents.


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## AshuraZro (Aug 21, 2006)

Good amd well writen post. It contains some valid points and a few I agree with. Rapidshare is indeed wayyyyy to overused and relied upon by the masses of irc. And thank you lord, it contains PARAGRAPHS!
Sorry Speechles : D


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## daRealist (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(speechless @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> the fact that people who have no idea what has gone on in the scene, feel compelled to give their 2 cents i find really amazing.Â it's like a giant wormhole of retardedness just crashes down upon this forum in waves at times.Â happens in alot of threads, not just this one, so don't get me wrong. if you have to ask, 'does he mean me? am i a retard?'.Â then yes, unfortunately if you have to ask, i have to answer, you are.Â you guys are missing the big point of the topic of this thread. gbatemp members, some mods included, are lazy leeching do-nothings out to get free product or services off the work of release groups.Â cuz without roms to put on the portal, you got no news, just opinions and reviews.Â so in a big way, depending on a steady supply of fresh rom news is what keeps this place afloat, and having the sister on irc, the nds/gba/psp ones there are, makes it sometimes all to easy. i only get upset when i see someone taking for granted the very system they depend on.Â eventually lack of gratitude makes you appear greedy and selfish.Â thats what has happened here, people are so accustomed to things being spoon fed to them that it is really upsetting to continue letting this 'cancer' spread.Â the major cause here isn't really the leechers fault as much as it is the popularity of one of the most famous handhelds of all time.Â it attracts alot of new rom puppies into this.Â they don't remember how hard it was back in the day to get roms and expect always someone will just rapidshare them new stuff and off they go.Â this trend has reached such a point that i doubt it can ever be stopped.Â it's a cancer that comes with popularity.Â maybe as gba dies off and wii/ps3 come into the picture these retards with their demanding ways will shift their focus and depart our beloved handheld channels and start to degrade our sure to pop up, wii and ps3 channels. who knows, i just hope that the people tossing rocks both and forth here realize the potential audience here is 30,000 strong, so don't troll retarded comments just to get a rise outta somebody.Â let's keep the discussion above 8th grade level, thx.
> 
> if any of my comments seem off hand, consider it so, this is just my take, my opinion on how i see things personally.Â if your upset and feel the need to flame, don't, because frankly you'll only be making yourself look more retarded..
> 
> ...


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## Golds (Aug 21, 2006)

I think a lot of people are worried now about getting caught.  Thats why everything has changed.

When bbs were around you could flex your coding muscles and do whatever the hell you wanted.  

This is why GBAtemp does not release information, because if one file was found or linked too,  we wouldnt have a GBAtemp anymore.  Well not in web fourm based form.  I am glad there is a release index for me to search, there are others but this one is the best by far.  

when the world is destroyed, and the aliens come, they'll want to play GBA/DS games, and there will be an index for them to use.  Maybe aliens can't read japanese/english, they'll need to pick which game to play.

I agree that the scene has evolved and changed, its still alive, but not as easy to get to.  

I would like to also say that I miss intros.


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## science (Aug 21, 2006)

This Scene is Dead - We Are Scientists


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## Hypnotoad (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(seja_8 @ Aug 20 2006 said:


> This Scene is Dead - We Are Scientists



The exact same thing I was thinking as I read through this.


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## Costello (Aug 21, 2006)

daRealist,
I'll try to be short:
I think I can understand your feelings towards GBAtemp now - which wasn't the case after our last discussion.
What I don't understand is what you want. Why do you come and post here since you hate this place so much?
What kind of reactions did you expect from the people you hate?

And come on, we're no longer just a site about scene news.
There's much more than just releases information on this site, although we don't post many news (we currently are working on improving this), there's a life, there's a community.
There's also that "content" section with reviews and guides which makes us unique.
If we were just a regular community we wouldn't be so popular.



			
				QUOTE said:
			
		

> What's happened here is that all the moderators and admins have gotten famous off the work of other people (the release groups).


I still don't get this part though. Why are you saying that we "have gotten famous"? You told me the same thing last time and I still don't know what you mean by famous. Members of GBAtemp probably know me because I post news and because I administrate the site. But who else knows me or shaunj66? I don't know, and I don't care. I am running this site with my mates just for fun (not only for my own pleasure because believe me it wasn't always easy, but for people's pleasure and to keep people informed).

I wish you scene guys were more famous and that people would acknowledge your work, because what I/GBAtemp has done is nothing compared to what the scene has done.
I sincerely wish to change things and will be open to any suggestion as long as it doesn't interfere with the interests of GBAtemp.


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## Hellfenix (Aug 21, 2006)

I feel like saying a few things on this topic also. I wasn't there in the good old BBS days however I got the net around 1994 in the early days. I was 8 years old and already I was running around IRC trying to get what was at the time commonly called ROMZ and APPZ and GAMEZ (what's with Z's?).

I was always marveled when an intro or a cracktro of some sort started on my computer with lovely MOD type music. I ever had fun and created a fictional release group with my friends, we basically took other people's releases and changed the intro to one we made ourselves and distributed to our friends. We always kept the .nfo file intact though and we were just fooling around with friends.

Later when forums began really popular alot of groups created private invite only forums. This way it could filter all the noobs and people who ask "How do I install this game" when there is a readme or nfo with all the required info in it. Most people still had 56k modems so RIPZ were the big thing.

Back to the console scene. Since roms were pretty small in size they were really easily found on websites with regular HTTP download, of course you had the occasional hacked FTP which looked like "COM3/COM2/       /  /   /TAGGED BY/MONKEYROMS" which was filled with superfast rom downloads.

Has the scene died? I don't think so. Yet it is "dumbed down". However many of my friends still can't apply a crack for any pc games and I am the only one of my whole friend network who owns a Flashcart.

I agree with the opener that people have grown impatient and it pisses me off. Many people don't even give credits to the wonderful people behind the scene. Thing is, if these guys could actually talk with us on the forums and stuff they could easily be thanked but since they don't wanna get caught its quite problematic for people to feel "close" to them.

I personally sometimes feel that the release groups are FAR away from me. I am sitting here on my computer and the releases keep coming whatever I do. I don't even know how to contact most of them if I wanted to join them for some reason...

I know they often end up being removed down the line but I think groups should still include intros as seperated .exe this way it doesn't fuck up CRC and its sweet. 

Long live the scenes!


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## Psyfira (Aug 21, 2006)

Where are the release groups? Okay that came out wrong, I know what I'm trying to say give me a second here.

daRealist's right that GBATemp is nothing more than an information site reporting news about work that's been done outside of it's walls. It has been for as long as I've been here anyway. I'd always just assumed that the more innovative people who actually "contribute" in the way he's describing hung out elsewhere. Id've never described GBATemp and the centre of the "scene" (or whatever you want to call it) for that very reason, just a bolt on the side. I think of the "scene" as a much smaller, select group of individuals and the rest of us are just milling around catching the scraps they throw off the side of the table for us. (sorry, that's a really bad analogy but the mental image was too amusing to pass up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

I guess what I'm not quite getting is why the author marks GBATemp as being the reason the "scene" has fallen apart, and completely missed the point of increased access and the explosion of the internet. In the past 5-10 years access to the internet has become mainstream, going from only the elite few to the entire general public, opening doors in the computing world to things which in the past only the most dedicated enthusiast could access. 

I don't think it's just the GBA scene you should be mourning but an entire era of computing in general. You can point fingers at individual websites as much as you like, but it won't change the fact that computing as a whole has evolved. 1990 was a long time ago, 16 years is a long time in terms of technology. The number of people interested in contributing to the scene as you describe it is exactly the same as it ever was. Only now, they are vastly outnumbered by the masses of other people from the general public who now also have access to their world, but have no interest in such things. The kind of people who are used to content-on-demand and have not idea of the amount of work that goes into some of the things they ask. The kind of people who just were'nt around back then.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying GBATemp and it's locals are angels; a lot of your observations were right on the mark. The "not condoning piracy" thing is a farce and we all know it. But you can't point fingers and placing the blame for the death of the scene squarely on individual websites without taking into account the state of computing as a whole.

(sorry for the length of that guys; buggered off to Cyprus for 2 weeks and haven't said anything for a while so I'll put this down to making up for lost time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

[Edit: ohshit, removed guess of which forums release groups hang out on after realising I've accidentally named homebrew forums instead. Idiot *thwacks self*]


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## Linkiboy (Aug 21, 2006)

I'd release something but the ROMs get released so fast(usually before the real release date) I'm kind of having trouble  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Well I shared PC software with my friends if that helps.

But uploading 700+MB files over a 1.0mbps/30kb upload connection is kind of hard...


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## science (Aug 21, 2006)

Get Busy Living Or Get Busy Dying (Do Your Part To Save The Scene And Stop Going To Shows GBAtemp) - Fall Out Boy


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## Tomobobo (Aug 21, 2006)

If I had the option to release something, believe me I would.  I would have loved to been the one to release NSMB.  But alas, there's absolutly no way for me to get my hands on anything before it's released in stores.
And if I had released it, instead of complaining that 30,000 people are waiting to leech that rom, I'd be proud of what I had accomplished.  30,000 people playing my rom on their hardware.  What a reward.
Maybe I don't get the point.


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## KroBa (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Blebleman @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> I was there, dialing into BBSs hosted in some random dude's house, spending credits to get that extra NES ROM. (and played LORD while doing it)


I used to love playing LORD on the local BBS. Those were indeed, the days.


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## mthrnite (Aug 21, 2006)

First off, forgive me for basically reiterating what Blebleman, Lukeage, Hellfenix, and Psyfira have already posted. Hopefully I'll bring something new to the table nonetheless.

When my first son was born my sense of my own mortality reared it's head like I'd never experienced before. This creature that I created will dilute me, outlive me, and ultimately become the "active" me by replacing me altogether. The same thing happened every generation before me, and will continue until my lineage dies out. As above, so below.

I remember back when the internet was young. My best friend worked at a college and at that time only government and academia could work and play on the net. When the internet started filtering down to the common people, my friend was nothing short of disgusted at the prospect. He lamented the fact that this pure thing would be sullied by the dirty hands of those who had no respect for it. He was right of course. Pop up ads, flame wars, viruses, mass  commercialization, GBAtemp.net... The net as he knew it is dead, replace by the squirming, porn infested beast that is it's son. The net as it is now however, has also brought fire to the masses. The same fire that burnt the hand of it's giver is the fire that empowers the masses to be a little bit more than what they were without it. Most will squander this gift. Some will utilize it to become the new elite. The cycle will continue, over and over, until it's lineage dies out.

I played a very small role in the Commodore 64 scene way back when. I saw it rise and fall, and I saw some who survived the fall go on to become the elite of the Amiga scene. I remember when the NES came out, I was outraged that this low-rent game machine was usurping the thunder of the computer scene. Yet, here I am, dancing in the ruins, having a wonderful time.

Everything changes, morphs, evolves, and continues on. The elite will be lionized, forgotten, remembered, and lionized again as the great precursors. So, back up a bit and look at the current scene as part of a lineage, not a thing in and of itself. Comfort is there. You didn't create the spark, you can't keep it, it will be passed on regardless of your attempts to cage it.

Le Roi est mort. Vive le Roi!

Something about this topic makes me want to go back and read Frankenstein again!


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## opcode32 (Aug 21, 2006)

i guess the way things are right now is sorta a vicious cycle. i see two main reasons why things have gone downhill and there are now instead of a dozen groups only two left.

1. the rapid growing popularity of fserve chans, p2p networks etc. like daRealist said, when the shift from bbs to internet was done "newssites" like this popped up everywhere. but first off all, there were no prebots. so most sites could actually update whenever the admins managed to obtain the release, which would usually take a couple hours. and even if you saw a new release reported on some website, obtaining it was a completely different story. the usual chans back then like #gbcroms sometimes got releases up to 8-10hrs after pre. So you pretty much had two choices: either wait until the shit showed up. or get off your lazy ass, contribute something so you could make it into the inner circle and get all the access you ever wanted. nowadays releases are posted on sites like mins after pre and hit the public irc-chans within the same timespan. so what reason is there actually do not just lurk around, leech? pretty much none.

2. the more popular the internet grew, the more people it attracted the more the feds put an eye to it aswel. resulting in a couple hard hitting busts, like Operation Bucanneer, Sitedown and some more in various foreign countries. So as a result of that most groups improved their security, at the end making it much harder to get in contact with them. Some years ago, pretty much everyone that was famous within the handheld scene used to idle in #gbc, nowadays everyone hides in private chans or even private networks. Which not only makes it hard to get in contact with them but also hard for the members of the various groups to get in contact with each other. Therefore there is like no 'socializing' amongst the groups anymore. Which takes *alot* of the fun away. Some years ago you could just get on IRC, talk to some friends, have discussions and such. Nowadays all you do is idle with three other guys in some private chan, pre the next game and that's it. So the scene rather feels like some anonymous factory pumping out releases day after day, but not like a community of guys that are just doing stuff to have some fun. So there is not much reason to join a group if it doesn't sound like something fun, is there?

3. The disrespect groups get nowadays. If someone releases something with an intro everyone is like "they suck! intros suck!" instead of giving them credit for atleast putting something out. The usual argument then is "noone needs the groups anyway, the games will get dumped no matter". if this was true, why is like 1 out of 20 releases and -IND release. If it was so easy without groups we should see more IND releases, shouldn't we? Anway, i don't see much point in contributing to a group when all you get in return for releasing something is hate that it doesn't have the "correct crc32!" It's really riddiculous to get flamed by 34939743 guys that pretty much do crap but think they know how shit should be done.

On a sidenote, all that "oh the groups are only looking for prestore suppliers" talk is cheap. If you had a closer look at recent releases, alot of those are storedate/after storedate. so if you really wanted to contribute you could. 

Bah, i am too lazy to type more so i'll leave it at that


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## RueGorE (Aug 21, 2006)

The scene's enemy is the internet. Nice read.


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## opcode32 (Aug 21, 2006)

well, BBS != Internet. And i did not say the internet, but the internets popularity.


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## jumpman17 (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> On a sidenote, all that "oh the groups are only looking for prestore suppliers" talk is cheap. If you had a closer look at recent releases, alot of those are storedate/after storedate. so if you really wanted to contribute you could.
> 
> Let me quote some .nfos from various scene groups:
> 
> ...



There are one or two that ask for suppliers but the rest say nothing about them needing suppliers.


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## Sick Wario (Aug 21, 2006)

Goddamn people. So long as there are still groups willing to release softs/movies/progs/ROMs  with al lthe law suits etc goin on, I will be happy!
i think the groups just need to accept that eventually, everything will trickle down to p2p and torrents. what so wrong with that?
big thanks to all!!!!


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## Darkforce (Aug 21, 2006)

Wow, I really don't know where to begin here... but I'll try to keep it short.

Foremost I am very appaulded regarding the personal attacks on GBAtemp. Shaun, Costello and MANY other people have put a huge amount of their own time into the site, and we certainly don't run it to gain anything, infact the site costs a lot of time and money to maintain. But then like Costello said this isn't something we try to dwell on as it's just a bit of fun =).

We aren't as rom oriented as some people like yourself may believe. A large proportion of the forum revolves around general gaming and off topic discussion, then we have the odd tournament and whatnot. We certainly don't encourage people to pirate games we come down pretty heavy on anyone requesting warez.
Information regarding backup units is available everywhere, from general gaming forums to wikipedia, GBAtemp just documents it a lot better. As you know the devices aren't illegal and not everyone uses them for illegal purposes; some people visit the site who are developing homebrew and need recommendations, some just want to know about the devices for emulation or multimedia playback and a couple of visitors have even been people from small companies interested in making commercial games.

Saying that I think there have been a few problems with the site as of late. We've recently had a lot of new members and the amount of questions I'm seeing about backup units is getting slightly ridiculous, (PLEASE read around people). Then there are the SC/M3 fanboys boasting how their flashcart is superior to others, so I'm not all that suprised if GBAtemp is perceived by some as having a warez image, but then we used to be a rom site so what do ya expect I guess, lol. xD


On the decline of the "scene" so to speak I share the same views as opcode32, of note is point 2. =)

Jumpman17 also makes some excellent points in his first post in this thread; not to mention points out your laughable hypocrisies.

And one more thing... I could probably phrase this a lot better but simply put... why are some rom dumpers so stuck up their own asses? Like yeah it's great you make games available to "us" (being the un-elite) and I know you sometimes go through quite a bit to make them available but sometimes you seem to want more credit and respect than the people who developed the games in the first place! If you start asking for respect people are a lot less likely to give you it. Why can't you just be happy in the knowledge that you are helping loads of people out or something?
Seriously, some people take this scene shit way too seriously...


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## Ender15 (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Blebleman @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> GBAtemp *is* the scene, in it's current form.



This is pretty true. But there are several other sites as well.

Drunkencoders, MaxConsole, Gbatmw, gbadev.org, and a few others,

Who all do their part in the complicated puzzle called the scene.

People see things on those other sites, and then they post about them here.

So while gbatemp may be the largest compendium of scene information, it is by no means the only one, or the most specialized one.

In fact I would call it the most general. Not that that is a bad trait.

It certainly focuses more on the ROM scene, than the homebrew/dev scene.

If I want rom news the first place I check is here.

----------

And as for ROM dumpers, some may be stuck up, but I don't know of any of them that would hold a rom on purpose.

They can be as stuck up as they want, but at least they deliver, and we should be grateful for them.

Having a dedicated rom dumping group is much more reliable and dedicated than an independent.

But don't get me wrong, ALL groups start as independants.

Even I helped in the rom dumping scene a few times (quite a couple times in the gbc scene, and 1 time in the gba scene, as for NDS, I was about to dump Freedom Wings (U) too).

I am more active in the homebrew/dev scene than the rom scene altogether though, that is why I tend to frequent the gbatmw forums, which are a lot more focused on homebrew than roms, as a result, I am less active in gbatemp. However I was fairly active back in 2003 (under a diff. name).


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## Brouhaha (Aug 21, 2006)

Some very interesting posts in this thread indeed! Thanks for the great, great read. But here's my point of view, and I hope I do not offend anyone...

First off, lemme get this off my chest: fuck the groups that rip movies, dump roms, and everything else that only requires the push of a button and minor setting up. That is not what a "scene" is about IMO. All this warez stuff is just an extra bonus from the real people at work (ie. the cart makers, the hackers, the developers). A group based solely on releasing warez, in 1986 or 2006, and doing lame ass politics over it and begging for thanks is exactly that: LAME. Now don't get me wrong, there are exceptions. WRG did pioneer a bit of software, which is great, but they also release roms. How could they complain that everyone wants the freebies!?!?! Gimme a fucking break. These groups are solely responsible for whats happening to them... Every single one of them had a choice of keeping it l33t and pr1va73. But fame is an attractive thing, and just like movie stars, with fame comes consequences, such as people criticizing and judging you. Life's a bitch, then you die.

It takes truly talented people to drive a scene, and its state is far from dead or sadening right now. It takes people such as Sata, Chism, DragonMinded, Infantile Paralysiser, etc, etc. As oposed to the groups, they drive the "scene" with incredible software for FREE and LEGALLY.

Now hate me all you want! I am off to have a beer and play Tenchu that I leeched like a motherfucker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




EDIT: Well that a was a bit steep after a re-read hehehe. So I will say that it is appreciated, but no dumpers are god-like just like no mp3 rippers are god-like, and surely none of them are unreplaceable. Think about who truly is unreplaceable in a scene, and make sure to thank them...


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## daRealist (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WRG, Rising Sun and Caravan all have contact information inside their nfo files.


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## BlueStar (Aug 21, 2006)

I do miss the intros mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I used to love the awesome 'tros on releases by eurasia, cpl, dcs....

Hope we start to see them in the DS scene soon.


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## daRealist (Aug 21, 2006)

QUOTE(Darkforce @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> We aren't as rom oriented as some people like yourself may believe. A large proportion of the forum revolves around general gaming and off topic discussion, then we have the odd tournament and whatnot. We certainly don't encourage people to pirate games we come down pretty heavy on anyone requesting warez.
> Information regarding backup units is available everywhere, from general gaming forums to wikipedia, GBAtemp just documents it a lot better. As you know the devices aren't illegal and not everyone uses them for illegal purposes; some people visit the site who are developing homebrew and need recommendations, some just want to know about the devices for emulation or multimedia playback and a couple of visitors have even been people from small companies interested in making commercial games.



I don't see how you can say gbatemp doesn't encourange people to pirate games. Probably 80% of the news posts on the front page are rom releases. Lets be honest here instead of just parroting what the forum rules say. It is a small minority of visitors here that come for information about homebrew.

Additionally, don't be so confident that those flash cards are legal, because from my understanding of law in the United States, I conclude they are not. Read the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) or take a look at the old Sega vs. Accolade lawsuit about unlicensed cartridges. Or look back at when Nintendo cracked down on Bung for making GBC flash carts ... If you understand the way these cartridges work from a technical standpoint, you'd understand why they automatically break copyright laws by the way they function.

If flash cards are legal, why don't we ever see 3rd party companies producing their own cartridges to avoid the costs associated with having Nintendo manufacture them?


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## jumpman17 (Aug 21, 2006)

I can't speak for everyone but I believe that when a new ROM release topic is created, the main page shows the information on the ROM release, but when I enter the topic, I then see it as a place to discuss that title, whether or not the person bought the game or got the ROM. Sure there are the people that always post "Where can I download this?" and "What settings do I set this on for it to work on my Supercard?" but there is also legit discussion on the game as what it is, a game. People discuss levels and how to get past certain sections. They discuss what they like and/or dislike about the game.


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## daRealist (Aug 22, 2006)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> I can't speak for everyone but I believe that when a new ROM release topic is created, the main page shows the information on the ROM release, but when I enter the topic, I then see it as a place to discuss that title, whether or not the person bought the game or got the ROM. Sure there are the people that always post "Where can I download this?" and "What settings do I set this on for it to work on my Supercard?" but there is also legit discussion on the game as what it is, a game. People discuss levels and how to get past certain sections. They discuss what they like and/or dislike about the game.



If gbatemp really isn't about rom releases and piracy, then the news on the front page should be changed. Perhaps just list game titles as they are released in stores ... For example, the odds of someone having purchased Madden 07 for DS at this point is pretty low considering it's not available in stores until tomorrow. It is implied that everyone is talking about playing the pirated version of the game since they are responding to the annoucement of a rom release (not a game's release in stores).

I find it troubling that so many members of the gbatemp staff cannot admit to themselves that gbatemp.net is a "community" centered around piracy. When it comes down to it, if the rom releases weren't posted as news here, you would lose the majority of your audience.


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## ds6220 (Aug 22, 2006)

I have been turning it over and over in my mind for a bit and I thought I would share my useless opinions. First of all, this whole topic makes me feel like daddy just smacked mommy at the dinner table. I think a lot of us feel SOMETHING, but we are not really sure what. I am so very new the GBATemp community but I realize one thing, it is a community. We do not all have to get along and we do not even have to share points of view. The amazing thing about communities like this is that there are folks from all over the world and folks of all ages here. THAT is what this place is really about. We have all gathered because one way or another we have latched on to this ...... what?......hobby? let's face it, H.G. Wells wrote about it but no one has figured out how to go back in time yet (good thing too if I have learned anything from Marty McFly) so the more we all whine about the good old days (I built a MAME cabinet because I wanted to play true Space Invaders and Crazy Kong in my basement) the more we sound like my Grandfather that apparently had to kill wolverines on his way to school. Today we have cars with lasers to help with the wolverines and we have PS2 compilation disks with Space Invaders. It happens because we are an anxious society (I can only speak for us Americans) and need to keep moving forward. I know this has already been said a bunch of times from the fine folks here but if I can access the internet with my freakin' phone, why should I long for the days I had to dial into my ISP let alone the big modems you would have to put your phone on so you could play chess with WOPER. Lets all take a big breath, step back and realize that, yes, with out those brave pioneers we would not be where we are today, but without the hard work and innovative thinking of the game developers, there would be nothing to........well, you know. My thanks go out to everyone in the 40,000 (not 30,000) strong that has helped anyone within this group. You don't have to release a game to be helpful here and knowledge is not in short supply. No need to horde it. That is elitist thinking. Educate those looking for answers. That is all. It really is that simple.


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## daRealist (Aug 22, 2006)

QUOTE(Costello @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ever go to some sports event and look at how many people fill the stands? 40,000 maybe? My point is that you have a large and captive audience who are reliant upon you for the news (of the scene's releases). In this small arena that is the handheld scene you are a celebrity. The people who compose the groups can't attract such attention because they are involved in activities which must remain secret. This website blows open the doors on the secrecy and puts everything possible in public view. 

I am personally very annoyed that there is some supposed anti-piracy stance taken by gbatemp as a whole. It's ridiculous and that's an understatement. At least be intellectually honest with yourself, there's one thing to take a position for legal reasons, it's another thing to believe your own bullshit. If you believe that this site is more than just news about piracy than make it so, please. Post news about homebrew and all of the developements in the homebrew community. In my opinion an update to an app like DSOrganize is at least as important as some totally unplayable japanese game, I think you would agree also.

For the record, I don't really hate gbatemp ... I come here to read people's opinions and other things on a daily basis. I just wish it was more true to itself and that the members of this forum would show a tiny bit of respect to the groups that make these releases possible.

Thank you for being reasonable about this topic, I honestly appreciate it.


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## tshu (Aug 22, 2006)

I have to agree with the suggestion that GBAtemp should post news on Homebrew more often. It would be great to go to GBAtemp for up to date info on not only the latest roms, but also the latest applications like DSOrganise, etc.


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## ceraphis (Aug 22, 2006)

I guess I'm a n00b or whatnot in the grand scheme of things, I've only been aware of how easily accessible flashcards are since early this year, and I feel like I've come a long way. Before that, around this time last year, I got into hacking my PS2, then the easily hackable PSP, and then PSO-exploiting the Gamecube, then it was on to the DS. 

By far my favorite so far has been the DS and exploring the different features of the (currently, and IMO) big three flashcards: SC, M3, and G6.

The DS also got me into reading blogs like kotaku and frequenting the GBATemp forums, even posting my stupid thoughts from time to time like this post because I wanted to actually discuss something with people who had the same interests and knowledge as me instead of my real life friends who make fun of dumb/cute/silly yet frighteningly addictive games like pokemon and think applying a crack to a computer game is shoving the CD up your ass. But, I digress.

I could post my own opinions on this scene debate, but anything I say is worthless given that I'm 21 and "true sceners" seem to be in their thirties or older and my only knowledge about "the scene" comes from hearsay and wikipedia.

I will say this, however. I like GBAtemp. I don't remember when I first visited here, but I've enjoyed all the time I've spent here and the knowledge that this site has provided me. And maybe I'm just easily impressed but I've come to respect shaun/costello/whoever has a thousand posts or more when they post their thoughts, because I'm here at their website/forum that I come to so very often looking for knowledge, and I (usually) leave with the knowledge I was searching for.

When it comes to roms, supporting piracy, and whatnot, all GBAtemp seems to do or want to do is just provide the knowledge about the latest dumps reported to work. If there was TV or radio back when pirates raped/pillaged the latest European Port, would you say CBS is supporting piracy by reporting it on the 10 o'clock news? So what if pirates are doing the reporting, working for CBS to pay the bills while they're not pillaging, they're still not giving you a pretty young wench to download and have your way with.

Who says the scene is dead? I think "the scene" is subjective. One person may fondly remember the "BBS days" or the XboardZ or whatever, but I wasn't born then. 

GBAtemp is my "scene". Don't change it, it's fine the way it is.


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## BlueStar (Aug 22, 2006)

If I'm honest, I much preferred things the way they were during the GBC days (Although that's possibly because back then I had a lot more time on my hands, did what I could to help out and got access to some nice places, got to talk to some of the people in the scene who've already been mentioned).  But you can't really blame communities like GBATemp for how the scene is at the moment.  If people involved in the console scene in the past want it back like it was, they need to start getting their hands on games before webgroups and start coding intros and tools for the DS.  And seeing as I'm in no position to do that myself at the moment, I guess I'm not in a position to complain about it either.


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## ReyVGM (Aug 22, 2006)

Together we stand, divided we fall.


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## Dirtie (Aug 22, 2006)

QUOTE(daRealist @ Aug 22 2006 said:


> I find it troubling that so many members of the gbatemp staff cannot admit to themselves that gbatemp.net is a "community" centered around piracy. When it comes down to it, if the rom releases weren't posted as news here, you would lose the majority of your audience.


What are you talking about? Of course it is, and we all know that. That being said we don't condone it of course, we just report the latest rom dumps and such. GBAtemp started out as a http rom hosting site - that's a far cry from what it is now of course, it has become a community of people interested in handhelds and extends a lot further than piracy information, even if that is what it is "centered" around.

As far as your first post goes, I do agree with most of it, but you must understand it is a natural progression, no matter how much of a shame it is. Technology is always being progressed, ways of delivering data are constantly evolving, emulators allow people to play games perfectly, and unfortunately this has lead to an influx of people that take things for granted, and even believe that the people in the scene actually owe them what they want - the lack of respect is astounding. But with the availability of flash carts, easy access to any illegal rom dump you want through a variety of methods, there is no way of stopping it.

Of course these reasons also contributed to the downfall of intros - people with no sense of respect or how the scene worked frowned upon intros as being unnecessary, and even bashed groups because of it, and since any average joe with an easily available flash cart could now dump a game perfectly and intro-free there was no point in even bothering anymore.

Yes there is no respect, yes the sense of community within the scene is probably almost non-existant compared with the BBS days (not that I was around then), but it is the natural progression of things, however disappointing, and it's best just to accept that, because nothing is going to change any time soon. Of course there is nothing wrong with reminiscing, and you have provided some insightful thoughts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Back to the GBAtemp site itself though, you are absolutely correct about some of the members just whining about things and letting their greed and impatience get the best of them, but far from trying to encourage this sort of behaviour we try to discourage it as much as possible, and we have rules and guidelines set in place to help our cause as much as possible.

Edit: After bothering to read the rest of the thread I realise I've just reiterated what's already been said, oh well


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## retrohead (Aug 22, 2006)

Everyone i know comes to GBAtemp for rom dumps and flash cart information nothing else. Even with GBAtemp posting information on roms 80% of the time the slowest, they still keep coming. Homebrew has a different scene to the commercial side and i think you will find that is where the real sceners live, not here.

GBAtemp is more about talking crap in the forums than the actual "scene". GBAfaq is more like what the site should be called.

I personally would find it insulting if GBAtemp started posting homebrew news. I would see it as the staff admitting failure and grasping at straws trying to save the site, which unfortunately i feel has been going on for the last 6 months anyway. With promises of new features and things to be added with not much actually provided.

GBAtemp has grown beyond anyones control imo. It is now an entity of it's own and someone needs to grab those reins and get the beast under control before it becomes GameFAQs.

This thread has been a great read and actually echoes all my feelings i have had for the whole of 2006. I'm glad to see other people are starting to notice oddities


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## KroBa (Aug 22, 2006)

QUOTE(ReyVGM @ Aug 22 2006 said:


> Together we stand, divided we fall.


Pink Floyd, brother. o/


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## akito (Aug 23, 2006)

QUOTE(Blebleman @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> GBAtemp *is* the scene, in it's current form.



now that made me laugh, but anyways.

GBATemp only gained popularity when it hosted roms via HTTP or via their IRC channel. Otherwise no one even has a reason to come here.

So you ask why am I here. Why have I been a super duper awesome forum member since 2002. Sometimes I just need a dose of make believe and you guys playing " scene thugs" (WRG and TRM)  makes me almost shit my self laughing.

Back to the reason for this post; 

What our friend from CPL was trying to say, GBATemp made the scene less intimate and open to everyone. Which took out all the fun.

My personal experience was my nice run as LuBE. Yes, that nice group that brought you games with no competition! If you remember it was pretty much two months straight of USA first releases. Why did I stop? Mostly because I was bored. When you are the only person, who can you share your victories with? Who can you celebrate with? Why was there only one person, because I did not need anyone to make graphics, hell there was no time to code trainers or intros. The people demanded their games NOW, there was no appreciation for such things.

Bottom line before it was about flare, character and personality. Now its just about GiMMiE GiMMiE. I bring forth the name “Generation GiMMiE.”


P.S.

If you boil it down GBATemp is just a PocketHeaven rip off. It only gained popularity when it hosted roms via HTTP or via their IRC channel.  Sure you have your 30,000 members but at least the 2700 forum members PH has give back in one way or another. Enjoy your free swag. If you need me I will be lurking back in the 90s where the scene left me behind.

R.I.P Handhelds Scene .. even thou I never knew you at all.


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## SSJ3Radditz (Aug 23, 2006)

It's not just the Handheld scene that's changed, it's all of them. I believe the culprit is that it's all become less personal. You have fewer people trying to translate games anymore, and fewer people releasing games, and all that. Screw everybody, people should start throwing intros in again. Even if they were kind of annoying, at least there would be a personal touch to things again. I don't think anyone is truly to blame, except for the apparent relative ease as to which releases can be aquired, when it was a little harder to get something, there was more of an actual 'community', I think. Oh well.

It will never truly die, as long as handheld systems are rediculously easy to crack and trick into playing ROMs. And I think Nintendo and Sony and all the rest leave it juuuust easy enough on purpose. So everybody needs to relax, stop blaming thy fellow man, and get into a more friendly frame of mind. Or something. Some of us still respect those of you that give us things for free, so take heart in that, at least.


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## FAST6191 (Aug 23, 2006)

I was not going to reply at first but I guess I will now I have had a few hours to think it all over and form some coherent thoughts, the end result may be lacking somewhat in length but hopefully it will convey my thoughts.

First up I completely disagree with the original poster, sure releases on the GBA have slowed down (the console is coming to the end of it's life after all) but many things are still happening:
For instance a bunch of high profile, high quality translations are nearing completion/coming along very nicely:
Fire emblem: http://community.livejournal.com/dtn_fe6trans/
Gyakuten Saiban/Phoenix wright
http://comebackcourt.sourceforge.net/ and Mother 3 to name but a few, there are many more interesting GBA hacks and translations floating around too if you look but these are three good examples.

So releases/release groups are an important part of the "scene" sure but many seem quick to forget they are not the only thing that make it up, sure the groups are less personal than Amiga/Snes/C64 days but since the MPAA/RIAA and other fun groups like that (does anyone know who, if anyone, does roms/isos of games by the way?) are now sporting, and all too eager to use: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/13/ri...amilitary_garb/ , black ops teams who can blame them (saying this a fair few anime groups are still pretty personal/high profile so I am tempted to say release groups are not even making the effort).
Oh yeah no person has yet mentioned trashman, sure they may not be a "group" in the strictest (insert snide remark about elitist types here) sense of the word but they are responsible for a fair deal.

As for homebrew, the DS has seen some wonderful things and the GBA has not been bad either.
One thing to remember the roms from the older consoles are still illegal so not all homebrew is unquestionably legal: copyright is many more years than has has passed since their release when you talk of older games.

As for the gbatemp and ilk "bringing the scene down" comment I say while I am fairly fed up of answering which cart is best (come on people do you think we would all be using different ones if there was a decisive leader), how do I play F.E.A.R. (or whatever the popular FPS of the day happens to be) on my GBA, I demand an emulator/rom released 5 mintes ago/rom of a game released 4 months from now/translation of a game from Japanese to Klingon (even if the game is out in Klingon in 2 weeks) type questions there are countless interesting posts from people all over on pretty much every subject that anyone could possibly care about. I may not have been into the "hardcore" IRC,BBS stage but (normally I got stuff from those that were so only ever got over the shoulder type glimpses) I will be damned if they could match the shear wealth of experience/diversity found in these sorts of places. Even better there are no really disparaged sites any more, places like high-society (probably not the best example but still, places like gameboy-advance.net exceptyed).

Sidenote, for anyone reading this who may be considering such a question http://anonym.to/?http://fun.drno.de/flash/posting.swf is for you (others may wish to have a look too as it is quite funny)

Which brings me on to my final point: keep intro's the hell away from me, if you want to make a demo go for it: I will keep it on my cart/computer and show it to all family/friends/random prostitutes I meet out on the street (I do genuinely have the shit faced cows demo from a little while back on my cart right now).
Code a trainer and stick a nice intro on that by all means too.

Then again this is just my opinion, others may (and going by this thread do) have others.

To end I shall quote Trashman's NFO: "for teh gamers, fuck teh lamers"


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## Psyfira (Aug 23, 2006)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> I can't speak for everyone but I believe that when a new ROM release topic is created, the main page shows the information on the ROM release, but when I enter the topic, I then see it as a place to discuss that title, whether or not the person bought the game or got the ROM.


You mean "what they like or dislike about this game they downloaded". Which they downloaded cause we told them the rom index number to look for. Come on, all of these discussions start when the roms are "released" and people download them to give the game a spin and see what it's like. Very few of these discussions take place after someone played or brought a legit version of the game, and those that do are usually because of delayed release dates in different territories. I'm not saying that people never buy the game, but the magazine forum discussions, despite being about the game content, hinge around the downloaded rom release dates.

I'm not saying it's rubbish; heck I hang around on this forum a lot. Just stop deluding yourselves. This site hinges around flashcarts with a lot of discussion of commercial games and very little of homebrew and self-development. You do the math.


[Edit] Actually this is slightly off-topic; placed in the middle of this thread it looks like another attack on GBATemp, which kinda doesn't apply seeing as the "scene" condones piracy as well. Apologies for the wandering.


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## Lily (Aug 23, 2006)

QUOTE(ReyVGM @ Aug 22 2006 said:


> Together we stand, divided we fall.



How true.

Any of us that were around back in the old days pine for the old days. They were better because of the amazing social contact that this "Web 2.0" garbage will never replace, and they were better because we're older now and nostalgia's a bitch. Too many people have faded away that I've never heard from again, and it's a shame. They're probably still out there, but through handle changes, growing up and drifting apart, who knows - we may still talk to each other and just don't know it.

As to all the ballyhoo about GBAtemp - GBAtemp simply embodies a community, a new community of people. They aren't the sceners of old, though some of them are here while mostly keeping their mouths shut, and surf this place more for the entertainment value than the value to the current scene. Some current scene members are here too, and speak up mainly in topics such as this, where the gigantic amount of BS can be smelled in every crack, crevace and corner of the web. However, this was never a community of sceners, even if some old, some new and some retired come by or not. GBAtemp provides information - information on roms, information on flashcarts, and information in general to the new community. If GBAtemp were to disappear tomorrow, another GBAtemp would spring forth to take its place. The importance of the community becomes stronger than GBAtemp itself. Someone will always step up and centralize the community for the masses that demand it. If there were no interest in the GBAtemp community, GBAtemp would have floundered and fallen long ago. The people that only cared about the rom downloads took off in 2002. I certainly wouldn't call any of the staff here famous, they simply do what they can until they get tired of it, or life commitments take them elsewhere. Providing information to a community that demands everything for free -right now- is just as tiring and as thankless as the folks in the scene who still try and give us some pre's, and regardless, still provide us with the meat that makes the whole dinner here a possibility. It's near sacriledge to compare the two, but there's no denying that the same leechers downloading roms are the same leechers of information - with the same unreasonable demands. GBAtemp needs the scene to survive - if there were no scene, there would be no GBAtemp in its current form. Of course GBAtemp is the very embodiment of open piracy advocacy, with the hypocrisy of the rules centered around maintaining the community's 'online' status. That's the box that had to be opened to have the community that provides the information.

Does GBAtemp embody the death of the scene? No. GBAtemp is an answer to changes in technology, changes in social contact, and the widespread adoption of the internet that just wasn't possible or available in the old scene days. GBAtemp embodies the new demands that have been placed with new technology. GBAtemp allows people outside the scene to contribute to their community - the moderators here do a fair job of reviewing available hardware, and the members help each other make it all work. GBAtemp doesn't piss on the scene. GBAtemp works outside of it to bring things to users who otherwise wouldn't be a part of anything.

Whether or not that's a good or a bad thing is a personal decision on your own moral compass. As I said, I don't think GBAtemp pisses on the scene. I also don't think it shows the proper respect to the scene that provides the very reason for its existence either, but I don't think it pisses on it. It's a different environment for different people centered around a common interest that both 'sides' if you will share. Again, as I said earlier - if it wasn't GBAtemp, it would have been another site, and if GBAtemp dies, there will be another site. The internet as it stands today has brought demand for the community you're posting in.

There are a lot of really great points in this thead, and a lot of it makes me evaluate my role in the whole process. I never would have imagined that people would have been -upset- about what we do here, but hearing other sides to the story really makes me sit back and think.


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## daRealist (Aug 23, 2006)

QUOTE(FAST6191 @ Aug 23 2006 said:


> First up I completely disagree with the original poster, sure releases on the GBA have slowed down (the console is coming to the end of it's life after all) but many things are still happening:
> For instance a bunch of high profile, high quality translations are nearing completion/coming along very nicely:
> Fire emblem: http://community.livejournal.com/dtn_fe6trans/
> Gyakuten Saiban/Phoenix wright
> ...



When I'm talking about the scene, I mean the warez scene. Homebrew and translations don't count towards the scene. Maybe there is a homebrew scene and translation scene, but that has nothing to do with gbatemp either. I fail to see the relevancy of the TRM quote at the end too ... Which side of the fence are you on?


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## tshu (Aug 23, 2006)

QUOTE(daRealist @ Aug 23 2006 said:


> Homebrew and translations don't count towards the scene. Maybe there is a homebrew scene and translation scene, but that has nothing to do with gbatemp either.


Maybe they don't count towards "the scene" but in my opinion, homebrew and translations are far more respectable than simply dumping and spreading illegal copies of commercial games. I don't understand why these people who release the commercial roms all want fame and recognition, when they aren't even creating anything original.

And I'll say it again, I wish GBAtemp would actually put some more focus on the homebrew side of things.


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## daRealist (Aug 23, 2006)

QUOTE(Qrayzie @ Aug 23 2006 said:


> Does GBAtemp embody the death of the scene? No. GBAtemp is an answer to changes in technology, changes in social contact, and the widespread adoption of the internet that just wasn't possible or available in the old scene days. GBAtemp embodies the new demands that have been placed with new technology. GBAtemp allows people outside the scene to contribute to their community - the moderators here do a fair job of reviewing available hardware, and the members help each other make it all work. GBAtemp doesn't piss on the scene. GBAtemp works outside of it to bring things to users who otherwise wouldn't be a part of anything.
> 
> Whether or not that's a good or a bad thing is a personal decision on your own moral compass. As I said, I don't think GBAtemp pisses on the scene. I also don't think it shows the proper respect to the scene that provides the very reason for its existence either, but I don't think it pisses on it. It's a different environment for different people centered around a common interest that both 'sides' if you will share. Again, as I said earlier - if it wasn't GBAtemp, it would have been another site, and if GBAtemp dies, there will be another site. The internet as it stands today has brought demand for the community you're posting in.
> 
> There are a lot of really great points in this thead, and a lot of it makes me evaluate my role in the whole process. I never would have imagined that people would have been -upset- about what we do here, but hearing other sides to the story really makes me sit back and think.



Does GBAtemp embody the death of the scene? No. Has it contributed to the death of the handheld scene? In my opinion, it probably has. My original post was a big long and I think one of my main points got lost in there somewhere.

The number of people with GBA and NDS copying equipment is surely much higher than the number of people who had similar devices back in the SNES and GBC days. Somehow, the scene flourished ... there were many people involved in contributing to the scene during those days. GBAtemp has created a "community" of people who are just interested in getting free games and follow the examples set by others in the "community". This site  doesn't encourage people to code trainers/intros or dump for NDS/GBA. It does the exact opposite ... For example someone I know released a trainer and the thread about it consisted of several people complaining about the choice of the game and then went onto to trash intros and other things for no reason. 

I think it's a step in the right direction to start posting trainers on GBAtemp, because it gives people some perspective about what exactly a scene group is made of. However, without moderators discouraging inappropriate behavoir the threads just become idiot-fests. 

Another example, let's say I went out and dumped a brand new game and released it to the scene. Do you think I want to come here to find people bashing the release the one reason or another? Does that make me feel like I've wasted my time ... Perhaps.

Thanks to you and Costello for providing reasonable and well-thought out responses to my post. I do appreciate it.


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## phoood (Aug 24, 2006)

My opinion, not yours.  Skip this post and move on if you want.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I'm fairly new here.  I came here under the recommendation that it was a great place to get news and reviews of existing equipment.

I got what I needed and left.

That's it.  Now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the scene.  I'm a leecher.  I have nothing to offer.  They spend their time doing this work BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.  If they put in an intro, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it.  It's their work, find another.

Developers release their work BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.  If they put in a little donation button, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it.  It's their work, find another.

If everything fails, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it.  I'll eventually find another.

I remember something like this.  Everyone was bashing the priviledged.  They thought they were doing a great amount of work for the place.  They thought since they contributed so much, they would stop.  Just stop.

And they did.

And everyone left.

Just as they hoped.  A few stayed, kissing the the elites' ass.  But got nothing.

But guess what?  Everyone found another.

@the topic starter:  You're an insider, am I right?  Coming in here, bashing the place and it's members, saying we're killing the scene.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, we're just leechers.  Go ahead and finish it off.


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## daRealist (Aug 24, 2006)

QUOTE(phoood @ Aug 23 2006 said:


> My opinion, not yours.Â Skip this post and move on if you want.Â
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This could have gotten me pissed, but how can i be mad at 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


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## mthrnite (Aug 24, 2006)

Alright, tell me to shut up and I'll shut up, but just one more thing.

I like it here.

I haven't been here long, but I really like it. I've gotten help, and given a bit back. I've read lots of posts and I get the impression that there's a bunch of nice, intelligent people on this board, there's damn sure some funny ones. When I can eek out a few minutes during the day to sit down and have a smoke, I usually come here and see what's going on. If I'm lucky I'll catch a fresh thread of tpi and tshu throwin' the ball back and forth. Beats the hell out of TV. I even post on here once in a while, and I'm a lurker by nature.

My point? Sorry, no point. Most all of the good points have already been aired. I just wanted to thank the people who keep this place going for putting in the effort, regardless of it's scene status. I'm enjoying it muchly.

...also, as passionate a topic as this is, it's been amazingly civil. Heck, nobody's even mentioned Hitl.. *oops*


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## faceless (Aug 24, 2006)

the scene has changed... every few weeks, another longtime scener has to go on a rant about how the scene has changed.. i swear i've been reading the same story over and over since 1996.. yeah, the scene has changed, just like they use high fructose conr syrup in coca-cola instead of cane sugar.. remembering the past is one thing, reveling in it is obsessive/compulsive.. the scene has changed.. and most people have learned to live with it..


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## daRealist (Aug 24, 2006)

QUOTE(faceless @ Aug 24 2006 said:


> the scene has changed... every few weeks, another longtime scener has to go on a rant about how the scene has changed.. i swear i've been reading the same story over and over since 1996.. yeah, the scene has changed, just like they use high fructose conr syrup in coca-cola instead of cane sugar.. remembering the past is one thing, reveling in it is obsessive/compulsive.. the scene has changed.. and most people have learned to live with it..



God must love leechers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's never been easier to be one. When's the last time you did anything useful?


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## tshu (Aug 24, 2006)

QUOTE(mthrnite @ Aug 24 2006 said:


> If I'm lucky I'll catch a fresh thread of tpi and tshu throwin' the ball back and forth. Beats the hell out of TV.


Well my friend, today is your lucky day...


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## daRealist (Aug 24, 2006)

QUOTE(tshu @ Aug 24 2006 said:


> Well my friend, today is your lucky day...



LMAONADE! It's a lucky day for us all.


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## T-hug (Nov 22, 2007)

Myself and some other OPs were just talking about scene stuff and this thread popped up.
I thought it may make an interesting read for newer members but also I'd like to know what people think about the scene in general at the present moment in time.
So what do you think, if anything?


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## amptor (Nov 22, 2007)

umm the main factor why GBC/GBA scene had problems was because a lot of people in the bigger groups were rude and forceful of opinion.  I didn't really feel welcome because people kept running off their mouths about utter nonsense that had nothing at all to do with dumping games, packaging, releasing, coding demos, or doing cracks.  There was no incentive for me to learn how to crack releases and I pretty much got wore out and got away from it completely.  I still remember when #gbc was still barely striving and the "elite" people started venturing into rom sharing channels and continuing to badmouth people who were sharing roms.  We had a user in #gbc who hosted a site so anyone, even a peon, could go in his fserve and download whatever they wanted, but people bitched at him about it and he eventually got fed up with all the politics and took it down.

What made the scene good was people who weren't petty and people who actually were embodyment of the word elite.  Such people did not bring personal issues regarding scene releasing and other such activities to the plate and also respected other people.  I saw people like Procyon join up chat rooms  in the late SNES days, they knew what was up..just drop off the crack and leave..that way they could stay out of the petty shit general sceners face in the community.  It existed all along throughout the GBC scene.  I found that the people with the very LEAST issues were Quasar and Oldskool.  However, the lead member of QSR did not come online much so I generally lost contact with him.  He was a very very cool guy to talk to and I had much respect even though I hardly knew the group since it was a low volume release group to begin with.

Pretty much all i've learned from the scene or even work in life which is similar to the warez scene is that if you want to strive and be active, you have to pretty much ignore a lot of people's petty arguments and move on with your own ideas.  Fazwonga probably got flooded with pm's bashing the group but usually he was drinking a few beers and it isn't like he didn't care what people were saying, it's more like it'd go in one ear and out the other with him.  He only took on the "fun" part, and the rest was pretty much not important to him.  Fazwonga apparantly is a highly respectable BBS scener from all the last conversation I had with him and he enjoys people having a good time and that's what ALL THE OLDSKOOL RELEASES WERE FOR !  He just wanted to share happiness with others in the world.   Also I saw the same happening in the early on growing days of Trashman, that made me happy because then we had a group that was just helping the community and going against the general hoard/troll opinion that the scene became used to.

Think of it folks, the main reason why the snes/genesis(md) scene had so much 'rom hoarding' as you might call it is obvious.  NO INTERNET.  It took ages to download the games because it was all dialup.  Groups like Numbers who actually sold the games on factory pressed cdroms were respected too back then because it gave the console user the ability to just buy a disc in the US or Europe easily full of literally hundreds of games and not have to tie up someone's phone line for weeks on end trying to get some stuff to play.

Later on I saw people wanted to continue 'keeping games away from' 'lamers' but come on, why even dump it if you don't want it to spread.  The scene had some very weird ideas about how things look.  Look at Crysis/RZR1911 right now, do you THINK razor doesn't want the general public playing it?  Big name group, provide to the masses, play the game and enjoy it!

Plus on the other hand I learned that the main mind trick involved with piracy is that, there are no rules.  So when people start bitching or bringing up politics, it is all a bunch of poo and needs to be entirely disregarded or you pretty much won't last.  And the only reason why someone lasts or not these days is due to their own internal motivation.  So if a person from a group sees that you can be unmotivated pretty easily, they'll press and poke your buttons until you quit.  Which I believe is what happened to me and they relay this information around the internet for years in case you come back because they already know how you operate.  I don't understand why they would want to discourage dumping, but there's no reason to really try to dissect that because piracy is not based on logic of any kind to begin with.


(edited because the forum glitched, that was weird)


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## xcalibur (Nov 22, 2007)

TL;DR
holy shit this is a massive thread
just read one wall of text before my eyes rolled back


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## FAST6191 (Nov 22, 2007)

I remember this thread.
So a year a bit on my opinion has not changed with regard to what:, I am not a great fan of the multi rar releases (I can see why) and the GBA is all but dead.
Dumping roms is easy thanks to rudolph, not sure what effect that has had exactly but I do not see it being a bad one.

The temp on the other hand has changed quite a bit: more homebrew DLDI is now unquestionably standard and some homebrew is very polished) same people and good new (and returning) people.

I am pleased to see the rise of rom hacking at all the levels it is taking place at ("undubs" are great), trainers and a halfway consistent stream of good new releases (somewhat reminiscent of the 1300-2200 of the GBA)

I seemed to have drifted off course as usual and I sense much of this could have been saved for the inevitable year end thread.


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## Icarus (Nov 22, 2007)

So what's the cancer that's killing the scene ? [/offtopic]


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## Lumstar (Nov 22, 2007)

Intros for releases aren't as common nowdays in the scene, that much is true. I noticed less of them around 2003 or so.

What I think? Intros are fine for just playing games. Since they honestly don't affect that. However... It can cause problems in things like translation patches. A patch or editor for a game with an intro may not work on ones without one, and vice versa.


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## xflash (Nov 22, 2007)

QUOTE(jumpman17 @ Aug 21 2006 said:


> being told to basically die in an .nfo for a NDS ROM one time...that was pretty awesome.


when was that?


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## VVoltz (Nov 22, 2007)

Having only read the first post, I have to say that those are interesting comments.
In my personal opinion I have to admit that GBATemp is lately a *lot more forgiving than a few years back* in terms of even talk about the dumping, releasing and sharing of roms.
When I started posting here I was really afraid of even mentioning the word roms (after the roms links were taken out I mean), but this condoning and trend of almost actually talking about the sources of a roms without describing it is not only coming from GBATemp. I also been part in the most importan Spanish scene site called 'ElotroLado'net' for a while now and you can tell that same thing, you are entitled to actually talk about a rom, even give hints on where to get it without being very descriptive lately.

In any case, I'll keep reading the rest of the replies as this is a really interesting post.


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## Harsky (Nov 22, 2007)

I can't be bothered checking to see if I posted in this thread but I'll mention this. I didn't mind the intros when I first got into GBA roms but with the ease of availability of broadband, if they still did it in this time and age, we'd ignore their, "SHOUT OUTS" encoded in every rom that you can't skip.


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## DjoeN (Nov 23, 2007)

Ah, those old days, i miss them  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Paying phone bills as high as the mount everest cause i called some bbs in the united states from europe (ok my mom payed and then took away my 300baud modem so i ended up in buying a new one and hoping to get myself a 1200 baud one with the money  i earned from working in the garden in the weekends and holidays)

Anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No one can say the scene hasn't changed, it has and there's no way around, with stuff getting cheaper and more easely to get. The respect is gone from downloaders to the groups and between groups. etc...

If there's anyone to blame, blame the flashcard makers for dumping there devices cheap to the net to get as much sales as possible, while in the old times sales wasn't the priority. You had to know where to get ahold of a copier and you had to lay down the money, you had to find a way to get it cheap to your country if there was no dealer in the neighbourhood.

I payed alot of cash for my Pro Fighter X Turbo and V64jr 512 and Z64, while the GBA devices early where relative expensive, the where affordable, now you pay 1/10 or less of the price for such devices for todays consoles.

Another thing i like to mention. I remmember paying 1600 to 2500BEF for games, when i convert them to euro i can see that it ranges between 45 and 60 euro, games didn't get more expensive. it's more like life got more expnsive and we have less money for things like that, or in the past we saved money to buy that one game, you would want that game so badly, you did jobs like washing cars, cleaning the garage etc... nowadays kids see a game the want, the want ir RIGHT away, the think money grows in th ebackyard in some tree where mom and dad grab some every morning, it isn't! kids today are more spoiled then in our days, i learned to have respect by working for my things i wanted, i try to learn my kids to have respect for others work and for the things the get, but it's hard, it's damned hard!

Ah well i'm drifting off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




You get my point!


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## rest0re (Nov 23, 2007)

I LOVE YOU PRINCESS AMPTOR


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## Ace Gunman (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(mthrnite @ Aug 24 2006 said:


> Alright, tell me to shut up and I'll shut up, but just one more thing.
> 
> I like it here.
> 
> ...



I might be quoting a post old as all get out (heck, it even mentions tshu and TPi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but what with the resurfacing of this topic, I had to speak up. Everything mthrnite said was true then, and it's true now. I love this place, and the interactions between the various members. I love to see new faces, especially ones that contribute (the lurkers should all come out of hiding! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)... but I miss the old ones as well. Tempest, tshu, Kyoji, and countless others; all faces and names that I affiliated with GBAtemp. Many of them have moved on, and I miss the hell out of them AND the good old days. Luckily we still have guys like mthr here who really capture the spirit of GBAtemp.

The scene may have changed over the years, but it took leaving for me to realize that abandoning this place we all love so much isn't the answer. If the tides of change are something you dislike, stay and help this ship stay on course. So you don't like the state of the current scene? Some of the new generation of posters? The fact that veteran members are leaving? Stay and do something about it. Leaving only begets more departures, but staying... staying means you can be a force for positive change. Instead of hopping in a life boat when you see the ship sinking, help patch the hole so that the ship _doesn't_ sink. 

This is a call to all users, both past, present, and future: the best way to help the scene and GBAtemp as a whole is to be a positive role model. Help by leading by example. If you're a veteran, stick around, continue posting and contributing. If you're a newbie, don't just lurk the boards when hot new releases come out; speak up! And if you're an old friend who hasn't been around in a while, come on back, we miss ya'. Being a community requires a sense of community. Don't just be _re_active, be _pro_active.


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## JPH (Nov 23, 2007)

I've not got much to say except: People are more _spoiled_ today.
We think that just because we've got a flashcart, that people should just hand over ROMs. We get mad and complain when the ROMs aren't out when we please.

150 years ago, many people had to grow their own food. Today, we go to the store to get our food.

Get my point?

As the technology continues to get more advanced and easier for common people to use, we'll continue to get "spoiled."


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## thegame07 (Nov 23, 2007)

So where do I sign up to help the dumpers! oh wait they would tell me to fu** off  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't see why this guy could come on this site and insult a lot of people when the clearly aren't as bad as he makes out. He's mentioning that gbatemp is full of leechers when he clearly used to be one himself (lol) If I disliked what gbatemp did I certainly wouldn't even register and throw insults towards the admins/mods that's supplying everyone with a free service out of the kindness of their hearts. So I wonder how many games this guys dumped compared to how many games he's played on his illegal devices. I do agree with some of his point but I totally dislike his attitude towards certain things. Its always nice to be labelled as a leecher when you cant really help when it comes to dumping roms, please tell me how to get a hold of games before their released and share them out to the public? I will be happy to do it. So what Im trying to say really is he shouldn't come on here and give everyone a label because he doesn't like the way things work these days..... was I around " back in the day" the answers no,just added that bit in there before someone asks and hits me with a smart ass comment  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




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## rest0re (Nov 23, 2007)

i still think princess amptor is cutest on her lollerskates! and this topic is teh shit. who started it almost got everything right except some things. but i don't want to talk about it coz it might get you all upset and mad and sad.

i think this guy is something like duff or somebody else? i'm not sure. was he at #gbc ? don't know. don't care. i remember when somebody had some lolling fserve at #gbc haha. woah. awesomous. well snes#1 then gbc#2 and then gba#3 as scene cool rating. ds scene is #999 as number but it's cool for laming and fooling around i guess. i'm one of them also lol. i leeeeeech of from real guys. but there are any left...
edit: here is princess amptor nfo!
edit: ofcourse it was joke. respect to all dump groups ofcourse, and oldschool.

anyway sometimes, something 31337 might come out from lameness. like menace started as super lame nes rom group and then they become super elite dominators of gbc and gba scene 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Edit: rest0re, you know better than to double (or in this case triple) post. I'm editing all of your posts into one and deleting the duplicates.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - Ace Gunman


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## Maikel Steneker (Nov 23, 2007)

Wow, this topic is old!

I can understand what the poster of this topic meant, but the scene has changed, and there isn't anything that we can do about it.
I don't think GBAtemp has done anything wrong at all! They may be one of the causes that the scene changed this much, but can you blame them?

I liked the intro's on GBA roms (those were the first ones I found), but to be honest: I wouldn't like them on new DS roms anymore. In the end, I'm glad the scene changed.


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## rest0re (Nov 23, 2007)

QUOTE(maikelsteneker @ Nov 23 2007 said:


> Wow, this topic is old!
> 
> I can understand what the poster of this topic meant, but the scene has changed, and there isn't anything that we can do about it.
> I don't think GBAtemp has done anything wrong at all! They may be one of the causes that the scene changed this much, but can you blame them?
> ...


Well its not just gbatemp.net ... also sharereactor big torrent sites etc. scene is not changed actually .. not changed at all.
edit: basically scene releases are first in topsite, then newsgroups, torrent and then p2p and fserves at irc. when it hits fserve it's
already old. p2p is much more safer way to spread than ftp because you are not the only one that spread the file. anyway this is
just talk. many clueless people here without knowledge but who cares...


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