# Shenmue III E3 2019 trailer and Epic Games Store exclusivity



## Issac (Jun 10, 2019)

Wait what? EGS exclusivity? For a fucking fan backed game? Sheesh.


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## SkittleDash (Jun 10, 2019)

......................................................Fuck.................You................Epic........You........Cunts.........


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## DANTENDO (Jun 10, 2019)

Great trailer says Jackie chan


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## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

I guess that's their answer to releasing around Death Stranding, Epic money.


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## Armadillo (Jun 10, 2019)

Epic trying to kill kickstarters now as well. 2nd game with the bait and switch, back the game for a steam key, then switch to epic. Keep doing it and people will stop backing stuff.

Wonder if the Epic moneyhat will cover all the refunds.


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## Izual Urashima (Jun 10, 2019)

I expect some people to ask for a refund, if only because of EGS' move.

The backlash will be huge.


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## MiiJack (Jun 10, 2019)

If every backers were to ask for a refund, will Shenmue 3 never release?


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## shaunj66 (Jun 10, 2019)

Izual Urashima said:


> I expect some people to ask for a refund, if only because of EGS' move.
> 
> The backlash will be huge.


The comments section of the KS update is being hammered by angry backers. I've updated the news to reflect this. It's going to be a PR nightmare for them. Rightfully so to be honest. You can't just bait and switch people like that.


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## SpiffyJUNIOR (Jun 10, 2019)

These greedy cunts can go fuck themselves. Do they not realize EGS is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with gaming right now? Whatever, I'm sure this'll be a PR shitstorm and thousands will demands refunds. Either way, unless EGS dies soon I can't see myself taking this BS much longer.

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shaunj66 said:


> It's going to be a PR nightmare for them


Good. Fuck em.

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This guy knows his priorities


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## Dartz150 (Jun 10, 2019)

TF Epic, one thing is to claim exclusivity with company games with a budget that has nothing to do with the final user, but taking it from a game that was backed up for a steam release? Well, prepare for the enraged refund wave.


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## matthi321 (Jun 10, 2019)

looks like a ps2 game


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 10, 2019)

shaunj66 said:


> Shenmue III is now *exclusive to the Epic Games Store*


definitely pirating this than. fuck epic!


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## Bimmel (Jun 10, 2019)

Wow.. and I backed that piece of poop.


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## ssssss13 (Jun 10, 2019)

Valve stans defending a pos company that has not released a game since hl2e2


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## 8BitWonder (Jun 10, 2019)

ssssss13 said:


> Valve stans defending a pos company that has not released a game since hl2e2


Valve has released at least ten games after HL2E2.
Portal 2, Left 4 Dead 1&2 and Dota 2 being some of the notable ones.


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## Chary (Jun 10, 2019)

I went from not really interested to definitely not interested.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

My people......you knew all of this would happen, but......that's Frank Sinatra telling you what you already knew.


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## tech3475 (Jun 10, 2019)

> This exclusivity was apparently chosen as Epic have been an important partner in the development of Shenmue III in helping with supporting development via the Unreal Engine.



And I'm sure it has nothing to do with:


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## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

Don't get me wrong, this is really messed up. Not just the exclusivity, but how it happened, but it is pretty funny to see PC suffering from exclusivity right around the same time that consoles seem to be seeing less.


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## T-hug (Jun 10, 2019)

I think they've done a great job of making it look the same as how I remember 1 and 2, but still modern.

As for the Epic store exclusivity, couldn't care less, least it's on PC at all. I find it hilarious people crying over which launcher to launch what will be the same game either way.


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## sonicvssilver22 (Jun 10, 2019)

Steam page is still up, let’s see how long that lasts LOL


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> it is pretty funny to see PC suffering from exclusivity right around the same time that consoles seem to be seeing less.



Riiiiiight?!?
Trust, it's way above the consumer. There are things going on that will redefine history.


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## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

Before I begin, I have no intent on playing Shenmue. Tried the old ones and just couldn't get into it. And now the main event:

Wow.
WOW.

Just..... what the in the actual fuck were they thinking? That's absolutely DISGUSTING!

First they refuse to make the game for years.
THEN they say that YOU have to fund the game if you want it.
And THEN they say "Nah thanks steam, where we said it was going. It's now going to the most hated online store."

Someone's getting off to this shit. I'm stunned. I'm fucking stunned! I feel genuinely sorry for the people who paid to have this game made only to get bait and switched. And it wouldn't surprise me if each and every one of those people who are pissed off refund the game, then pirate the ever living FUCK out of it.

Keep pulling this shit, and people aren't going to give a damn if your company is going to go over due to rampant piracy, because the higher ups are sowing this themselves just to line their own pockets with cash!

I would be just as fucking pissed off if the same thing happened with a Skies of Arcadia remake or sequel. infact, I'm starting to hope this never occurs, so my favorite doesn't get the Epic shitsmear on it's face.

Fuck off Epic, you greedy CUNTS!


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 10, 2019)

and this is WHY WE PIRATE!


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## shaunj66 (Jun 10, 2019)

Looks like backers that chose a PC physical copy will get a case with an EGS digital code inside:

PC Physical copies will come with a code for the Epic Games Store— Deep Silver (@deepsilver) June 10, 2019


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## the_randomizer (Jun 10, 2019)

Epic Game Store can shove a cactus up its tailpipe. Bullshit.


Wake me up when those losers can program a shopping cart on EGS


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 10, 2019)

StarGazerTom said:


> Before I begin, I have no intent on playing Shenmue. Tried the old ones and just couldn't get into it. And now the main event:
> 
> Wow.
> WOW.
> ...


Not sure who's the game maid, but you sure you can pay to have her?


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

StarGazerTom said:


> Someone's getting off to this shit. I'm stunned. I'm fucking stunned! I feel genuinely sorry for the people who paid to have this game maid only to get bait and switched.



Yeah, it happens and I wish it wouldn't but if Will Smith is floating around, let me get $200M+ to life a whole lot of shit.



StarGazerTom said:


> because the higher ups are sowing this themselves just to line their own pockets with cash!



??Yes??


The thing we need to always remember:
if you can, than you need to, lest a person unqualified does what you knew would fail.


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## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

shaunj66 said:


> Looks like backers that chose a PC physical copy will get a case with an EGS digital code inside:
> 
> 1138157721000271872
> 
> View attachment 169638


To quote my friend Baymax: "Oh no."

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sarkwalvein said:


> Not sure who's the game maid, but you sure you can pay to have her?


I can, but only if she's not Epic store exclusive!


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## Godofcheese (Jun 10, 2019)

That's one way to take a huge dump on your backers.


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## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

God damn it.

Personally, I don't care where PC games are and aren't available, it doesn't make a single difference to me. But clearly I'm in the minority. This move just killed Shenmue. It probably wasn't gonna sell a whole lot to begin with and now it definitely won't. There will not be a Shenmue 4 because of this, at least one without another crowdfunding campaign.

Regardless, trailer was actually pretty good for once, but as always those faces need work it's downright embarrassing.


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## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

It would have still been messed up, but they could have at least let the backers get their Steam keys.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

Robfozz said:


> But clearly I'm in the minority. This move just killed Shenmue. It probably wasn't gonna sell a whole lot to begin with and now it definitely won't. There will not be a Shenmue 4 because of this



Yes; historically, the smart lie about finances (+-).
Expect Shenmue V on the PSV(5)s'/XB1SCs' lifespan.


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## DANTENDO (Jun 10, 2019)

Robfozz said:


> Regardless, trailer was actually pretty good for once, but as always those faces need work it's downright embarrassing.


What's the big deal with ther face looking pretty they gonna get beaten up anyway


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## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

DANTENDO said:


> What's the big deal with ther face looking pretty they gonna get beaten up anyway


For a game thats gonna have hours and hours of dialog and cutscenes with lots of close up shots on the faces, they need to look better and be animated better.


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## notimp (Jun 10, 2019)

Great, now I have to maybe pirate it after backing it for 400 USD. Thanks Yu! Thanks Deep Silver!


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

Robfozz said:


> For a game thats gonna have hours and hours of dialog and cutscenes with lots of close up shots on the faces, they need to look better and be animated better.



Wish granted in the form of _DLXC_, the new form of Downland-able content in the "future".


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 10, 2019)

this is why you never back anything on kickstarter today...EVER


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## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

Robfozz said:


> This move just killed Shenmue. It probably wasn't gonna sell a whole lot to begin with and now it definitely won't. There will not be a Shenmue 4 because of this, at least one without another crowdfunding campaign.


Maybe Epic will back them again, but people aren't going to pay for another crowdfunding campaign for this series again, when they been burned already. At least not anytime soon and not as long as it is an Epic exclusive.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

Bladexdsl said:


> this is why you never back anything on kickstarter today...EVER


Sir, this why is why *you choose * who will shape the future of our digital history.

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## ken28 (Jun 10, 2019)

i find only one thing funny about the whole exclusivity.
People complain about steam policy all the time but always will throw money at them instead of using gog/epiic/whatever.
How else are the "better" alternatives supposed to convinve those nay sayer to to look over their small horizon?


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## Pipistrele (Jun 10, 2019)

8BitWonder said:


> Valve has released at least ten games after HL2E2.
> Portal 2, Left 4 Dead 1&2 and Dota 2 being some of the notable ones.


The folk has a point though - Valve doesn't even try to do anything with the situation, and the fact that EGS has most of the lucrative upcoming PC exclusives at this point is to a good part because of Valve sitting in a corner and doing jack crap. It was also at least a few years since they provided fans with something they want, and it doesn't seem they have anything in development either.


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## Bladexdsl (Jun 10, 2019)

who bioy there is a category 10 shitstorm raging on steam now. and i just added some fuel to the fire 

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H1B1Esquire said:


> Sir, this why is why *you choose * who will shape the future of our digital history.



not if it's epic


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> Valve doesn't even try to do anything with the situation,


$$$$$$$$$$$$ ∞ X ∞.

Were you really expecting less?


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## NeoSlyde (Jun 10, 2019)

Imagine being that retarded and cry because a game isn’t in a specific online store.
How much is Steam paying you?


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## Armadillo (Jun 10, 2019)

ken28 said:


> How else are the "better" alternatives supposed to convinve those nay sayer to to look over their small horizon?



Offer something compelling, that makes people want to come to your store, rather than trying to force people. 

Like MS. Buy X game on Win10 store, get a console version as well, something unique, something not offered elsewhere. Even then, 10 store was shit and people had problems with uwp, and now MS are addressing that. Xbox beta store is supposedly good and the hook is pc game pass. Don't see any outrage about that.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

Bladexdsl said:


> not if it's epic



Rabble a rouse large enough and they'll suck the farts out your ass.



NeoSlyde said:


> How much is Steam paying you?



Not enough for my farts.


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## DANTENDO (Jun 10, 2019)

And at sony hq


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## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

NeoSlyde said:


> Imagine being that retarded and cry because a game isn’t in a specific online store.
> How much is Steam paying you?


Are you serious? Are you an Epic exclusive too?


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## ken28 (Jun 10, 2019)

Armadillo said:


> Offer something compelling, that makes people want to come to your store, rather than trying to force people.
> 
> Like MS. Buy X game on Win10 store, get a console version as well, something unique, something not offered elsewhere. Even then, 10 store was shit and people had problems with uwp, and now MS are addressing that. Xbox beta store is supposedly good and the hook is pc game pass. Don't see any outrage about that.


Did you ever look at gog? 
If offer free games now and then, DRM free games too and offer new and old games, the also give you select games you own steam for free on their platform.
Yet is way behind steam.
Why you may ask ? cause most of the very same people that always complain about steam are also too lazy to make the change.
So what is epic supposed to do? The same?
In that way the consumer forces them to do such back hand tactics.


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## obs123194 (Jun 10, 2019)

So basically the developers said fuck you guys to the people wanted it on steam or backed it thinking it was going to be on steam


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## ken28 (Jun 10, 2019)

obs123194 said:


> So basically the developers said fuck you guys to the people wanted it on steam or backed it thinking it was going to be on steam


not persay, at best it will be a times exclusivity.


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## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

ken28 said:


> not persay, at best it will be a times exclusivity.


There's absolutely no mention of it being a "Timed" exclusive. It all just says Epic Store exclusive.


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## sarkwalvein (Jun 10, 2019)

ken28 said:


> So what is epic supposed to do?


Kneel before king Gaben, the one and only true king. Ofc.


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## NeoSlyde (Jun 10, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> Are you serious? Are you an Epic exclusive too?


Dude.
This is sooooo childish.
The Steam and Epic Fanboy are ridiculous.
Specially Steam fanboys...


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## ken28 (Jun 10, 2019)

NeoSlyde said:


> Dude.
> This is sooooo childish.
> The Steam and Epic Fanboy are ridiculous.
> Specially Steam fanboys...


fanboyism is stupid no matter which side you are on.


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## H1B1Esquire (Jun 10, 2019)

ken28 said:


> steam are also too lazy to make the change.


They're scared. 
Mind you, everyone has a "family"--people work for "life" to get a "good job" to "make-ends-meet" to "provide" for their "family", but what cost to the "ends-to-the-mean"?

You are a victimless crime that no-one feels sorry for. They will exploit you to no means to line their pockets.
The best thing you can do is shape the way they that they decide to fuck your ass.


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## spotanjo3 (Jun 10, 2019)

No idea what is Epic Games Store. Why are people angry about it ?


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## the_randomizer (Jun 10, 2019)

azoreseuropa said:


> No idea what is Epic Games Store. Why are people angry about it ?



A pathetic storefront that has no shopping cart and a real dickweed of a CEO running it, nothing new.


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## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

ken28 said:


> back hand tactics.


Because this isn't going burn bridges anyway.



NeoSlyde said:


> Dude.
> This is sooooo childish.
> The Steam and Epic Fanboy are ridiculous.
> Specially Steam fanboys...


Calling people retarded out of nowhere is totally mature. 

Doesn't matter if it was Steam or not, they bait and switch people and it is crazy to me that people are actually defending that.


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## ken28 (Jun 10, 2019)

azoreseuropa said:


> No idea what is Epic Games Store. Why are people angry about it ?


basicly cause it force them leave their steam heaven which mayn of the very same people always complain about xD
TL;DR its a store run by Epic (Unreal engine , gears of war etc)


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## Armadillo (Jun 10, 2019)

ken28 said:


> Did you ever look at gog?
> If offer free games now and then, DRM free games too and offer new and old games, the also give you select games you own steam for free on their platform.
> Yet is way behind steam.
> Why you may ask ? cause most of the very same people that always complain about steam are also too lazy to make the change.
> ...



Not just lazy to change, Steam offers features people clearly value. gog carves it's own area out with drm free, but clearly a lot of people just value steams feature set over it. 

If you want, just as example, to set your pc up as console. Steam is the only store front that can boot straight into bpm and has full controller support for it's interface, that's just one thing steam offers, that no other storefront does. I can launch straight into steam, and even purchase games without ever using a keyboard, steam is the only place it's possible.

If someone has that setup and there are a lot of people that use pc on tv these days, why wouldn't you stick with steam. No one else offers something as basic as full navigation of the store with the controller.

If people aren't flocking to these other stores, then maybe they aren't "better alternatives".

Force people to use something worse and you will always get pushback.

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azoreseuropa said:


> No idea what is Epic Games Store. Why are people angry about it ?



Another pc store, that is completely barebones, missing most of the features steam has, but also epic keep money hatting stuff that was already confirmed for steam. In this case a bait and switch as well, backers got to select a steam key, now it's switched to epic.


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## the_randomizer (Jun 10, 2019)

How much is that numbskull Tim Sweeny and Epic paying you guys to defend them?


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## leon315 (Jun 10, 2019)

Issac said:


> Wait what? EGS exclusivity? For a fucking fan backed game? Sheesh.


to all backers: NEXT TIME THINK TWICE before to back any kickstarter games lel!!!


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## bobmcjr (Jun 10, 2019)

Oh boy, another game on PC delayed by a year. I hope that Fortnite and Tencent money will fizzle sooner rather than later.

One of the common "arguments" I've seen people  use is assuming that EGS is genuinely a valid and viable alternative to Steam. They downplay or are  unaware of the genuine flaws of EGS under the guise of "hurr durr fanboyism". When EGS isn't a horribly insecure PoS, isn't missing basic features like a shopping cart (6 month+ road map according to EG for this!), doesn't kick players off for buying too many games at once, and isn't more or less directly funding the Chinese government's censorship division, I'll consider it. I put Epic supporters in more or less the same category as people who believe G2A is a legitimate storefront.

When it comes to PC games, I have the patience of a saint. What's another year anyway?

Tbh, it'd be funny if these publishers were becoming exclusives, knowing they'll sell poorly anyway, just to drain Epic's cash quicker.


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## proffk (Jun 10, 2019)

This is a classic case of money talks. Epic bribed deep silver for exclusivity. This is what happens when you plouge money into garbage like Fornite.

On the other hand by pressuring the publisher you still might see a steam release for backers only. At the end of the day its as Triple H says "Its best for business" for Epic.


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## spotanjo3 (Jun 10, 2019)

@the_randomizer, @Armadillo, @ken28....

Thank you! Oh, that's sucks!


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## the_randomizer (Jun 10, 2019)

azoreseuropa said:


> @the_randomizer, @Armadillo, @ken28....
> 
> Thank you! Oh, that's sucks!



Yup, pretty much


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## T-hug (Jun 10, 2019)

Everyone seems to be skipping the caveat that developers get more of your money from their hard work by selling on epic instead of steam. This is why so many new big games are happily going there.

TIL fuck exclusivity - unless it's on the store you like more


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## Issac (Jun 10, 2019)

T-hug said:


> I think they've done a great job of making it look the same as how I remember 1 and 2, but still modern.
> 
> As for the Epic store exclusivity, couldn't care less, least it's on PC at all. I find it hilarious people crying over which launcher to launch what will be the same game either way.


Oof, big disagree. 

I don't trust EGS to last a fraction as long as Steam. I want to have my whole digital collection in one place (or two, counting GOGs DRM free oldies).

And EGS has so many flaws they should iron out instead of buying exclusivity rights. Try to get fans by offering some nice prices, or features, instead of fighting the consumers by forcing them to use their store.


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## FAST6191 (Jun 10, 2019)

Not entirely sure what to think about this. It is far from the first fan to have a crowdfunding effort essentially as a verifiable interest gauge (money where your mouth is and all that) for a larger project, often times for good financial reason (while 1 million is something I could comfortably retire on for the next 50 years or so it is not so much in big boy game dev) this fails to sit quite right where before I saw nothing in particular worth getting upset over.



azoreseuropa said:


> No idea what is Epic Games Store. Why are people angry about it ?


It is a thing I have been pondering for a while as well. The funny thing to write it off as is Steam fanboys or Steam Stockholm Syndrome sufferers but there is more to it, don't know how much but more.

Anyway hopefully you are familiar with the history of Steam. If not then following a source code leak of a very early Half Life 2 build Valve announced a serious (for the time) DRM system that would ultimately be called Steam. Later on Steam would also serve as an online sales platform controlled by Valve for their products and whomever else asked, naturally for a cut. There were options for this before; the original Doom/ID software stuff doing it back when they were starting out, themselves then getting in legal trouble as machines used for a business they were all involved in before and a sales model they learned from it, being a great one here. At first Steam was little more than one of those launchers people had with games to select what game in a collection, what mods and what resolution people wanted to load with, it grew into more than that though. From where I sit still just a glorified DRM system but hey.
For whatever reason though Steam was in at the right place, at the right time with a feature set that was pretty acceptable for a lot of companies big and small, and thanks to the considerable success of some of their games they were installed on a lot of machines (getting your stuff installed on a customer's machine/phone/whatever is half the challenge really). Over time their share of the PC game market increased considerably, so much so that it arguably took out physical sales of PC games (sadly this also saw people give up their ability to resell games) and today they are effectively a monopoly -- at one point having your game on Steam was a mark of quality for some, and today choosing not to have your game on Steam is considered a bold move that will likely cost you sales. In a technical sense they are not a monopoly as there are things like good old games, humble bundle, gamersgate and a bunch of others (I saw the chat program/service Discord has launched something like it recently) but in terms of raw market share... just no, you would have had a better chance of saying Windows did not utterly dominate the operating system market during the XP era.
Steam's cut is quite considerable for the service they provide (it scales with income but starts at 30% and only really drops when you get into the millions of USD) so quite a few are not entirely happy with paying considerable sums to Valve for what is essentially a download service and a payment processor.

Step in Epic (makers of the very popular decades long industry standard that is the unreal engine, and presently super popular game fortnite) who offered a smaller cut (still a fairly big one compared to some of the things I have set up for people elsewhere but hey) and also some money to offset the sales loss that not being on Steam would likely cause. Some people called that a bribe despite it being nothing of the sort by any legal definition in any country I have cared to look at the laws for, nor indeed any moral one I have ever seen. Other people noted that being on the Epic store would likely also mean no Linux nor Apple builds of games where Valve has a few things on those OSes, some people called it unfair to Valve despite them not exactly doing much for the game in question (it is not like they advertised the thing), some note that Epic's feature list is not quite as shiny as Valve's (most of what Valve has is cloud saves, as if one could not easily point a save folder into their dropbox or whatever account), some noted Valve acts as a sugar daddy for some of the Wine projects (a means of implementing Windows coding features into PC builds of Linux, BSD and such) which is true and Epic don't seem to be doing much there but such projects have long had different sugar daddies so meh, some look at Valve's API that allows some measure of easier networking and such, some look at some of Valve's other features like PC streaming and various support of controllers where basic Windows or a give game might not (because installing whatever the current take on joy2key might be is so terribly difficult), some noted Epic's involvement with the Chinese (Tencent owns a nice chunk of them), some claim Epic's security is not great (because there are not a thousand Steam exploits a year), some noted Epic's installer had a little sniff at other games installed on the system without asking (very poor taste, and not with the fig leaf excuse of DRM or anti cheat like some other tools over the years*), and some noted Epic's rough and ready approach to the world (for some reason the lack of a shopping basket on their site bothered some people, because people so frequently buy 15 games at once to save on shipping).

*still thing my favourite every anti cheat fail was it was found an anti cheat looked for a specific string a debugger would leave in memory. One group then joined the IRC chat of a rival group and said this string in harmless IRC chat. The anti cheat then detected this and banned the rival group for cheating.

So yeah in the end I am seeing Epic do fairly normal business practices, especially when going up against an effective monopoly, and ultimately something that does not cost the consumer anything -- it is not like you pay for Steam, it is not like you pay for Epic, the same game that would run on either will still run here (give or take things that no longer have Linux builds, or will no longer have Linux builds if they were never released). I don't like that both prevent me from reselling games trivially (I have ways around it, or in the case of Steam myself I have never had an account, nor purchased anything from them). If Steam goes under then after a small adjustment period then no great loss, if Epic fail to be so then no great loss, if Epic give Steam a bloody nose and force them to play nicely then so much the better, if they both take each other out then no great loss and I hope whatever replaces them does better. That is a win whatever way I slice it, some more than others but still a win.


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## T-hug (Jun 10, 2019)

Issac said:


> Oof, big disagree.
> 
> I don't trust EGS to last a fraction as long as Steam. I want to have my whole digital collection in one place (or two, counting GOGs DRM free oldies).
> 
> And EGS has so many flaws they should iron out instead of buying exclusivity rights. Try to get fans by offering some nice prices, or features, instead of fighting the consumers by forcing them to use their store.


steam is 16 years old - epic's store launched 7 months ago, give them chance lol
Everyone  is so quick to slaughter them and for what? For trying to bring competition against the steam monopoly?
They are trying to change things for the consumer and developer, better all round.


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## Xzi (Jun 10, 2019)

Was it too much to ask that Shenmue 3 be available on the same storefront I already bought Shenmue 1 and 2 from?  Oh well, at least Timmy Tencent is providing us all with free copies from the high seas.  I'll be adding the shortcut to Steam regardless.



T-hug said:


> They are trying to change things for the consumer and developer, better all round.


They are not.



T-hug said:


> Everyone is so quick to slaughter them and for what? For trying to bring competition against the steam monopoly?


Exclusivity is the opposite of competition.  It's a ham-fisted strategy being employed specifically because Epic knows their storefront can't compete on its own merits.


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## bobmcjr (Jun 10, 2019)

T-hug said:


> Everyone seems to be skipping the caveat that developers get more of your money from their hard work by selling on epic instead of steam. This is why so many new big games are happily going there.
> 
> TIL fuck exclusivity - unless it's on the store you like more



Except in the case of Indie games, exclusivity money will very likely bring little benefit to the actual developers. It will primarily line the pockets of the publishers.

Video game developers/companies are not sacred or holy. They make a product, and publishers sell it. If it is worth purchasing, consumers will generally buy it. If their money is so deserved from their hard work, they will earn it. EGS paid exclusivity seems like a cop out, as if they aren't confident in the quality of their games and knew they were making crap.

I would also note there is a large difference between voluntary exclusivity and legally binding paid exclusivity. Exclusivity sucks, but introducing legal obstacles to solidify it is in no way a benefit. Intel was sued for such scummy behavior, but only because they were already the dominant entity in the market.



T-hug said:


> steam is 16 years old - epic's store launched 7 months ago, give them chance lol
> Everyone  is so quick to slaughter them and for what? For trying to bring competition against the steam monopoly?
> They are trying to change things for the consumer and developer, better all round.



If you are truly this against this so-called monopoly you believe Steam has, are you also this against Sony and Microsoft's walled garden ecosystems?

If they genuinely cared about benefitting the consumer, would they keep pushing back the introduction of basic features? Would they keep failing to address security complaints? Would their exclusivity deals be so sudden and shrouded in secrecy? All EGS cares about is attempting to solidify a place in the market by any means necessary before the Fortnite money runs out. They have already had plenty of time to address these issues; instead it only shows they don't give a fuck.

Just saying, I could make a website in less than an hour with a functional shopping cart system.


----------



## Essasetic (Jun 10, 2019)

And I've got my popcorn out.


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

Essasetic said:


> And I've got my popcorn out.


Ain't enough popcorn on the planet to cover this firestorm


----------



## Idontknowwhattoputhere (Jun 10, 2019)

T-hug said:


> steam is 16 years old - epic's store launched 7 months ago, give them chance lol
> Everyone  is so quick to slaughter them and for what? For trying to bring competition against the steam monopoly?
> They are trying to change things for the consumer and developer, better all round.


7 months old and without basic things like a shopping cart


----------



## Essasetic (Jun 10, 2019)

StarGazerTom said:


> Ain't enough popcorn on the planet to cover this firestorm


hehe. That's true. I still think this is incredibly scummy of the developers to make a poll with no mention of the Epic Games Store on there and then after that. Announce its a EGS exclusive.


----------



## T-hug (Jun 10, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Exclusivity is the opposite of competition.  It's a ham-fisted strategy being employed specifically because Epic knows their storefront can't compete on its own merits.



But it's not exclusive, it's on PC in both instances, you just click a different icon to play it. 



bobmcjr said:


> If you are truly this against this so-called monopoly you believe Steam has, are you also this against Sony and Microsoft's walled garden ecosystems?



No, I just don't understand the tirade of hate against a company that is trying to help game developers get a bigger cut from their work. As I said in my original post, I couldn't care less what a multiplatform game is on as long as I get to play it, and in this case, luckily everyone can enjoy it as it's on PC PS4 and Xbox at the same time.


----------



## Essasetic (Jun 10, 2019)

T-hug said:


> But it's not exclusive, it's on PC in both instances, you just click a different icon to play it.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just don't understand the tirade of hate against a company that is trying to help game developers get a bigger cut from their work. As I said in my original post, I couldn't care less what a multiplatform game is on as long as I get to play it, and in this case, luckily everyone can enjoy it as it's on PC PS4 and Xbox at the same time.


It is kind of annoying just to have two launchers for different games. But I do believe why the Epic Games Store is widely hated is because it's actually putting up a somewhat decent fight against Valve. But, the momentum won't last long. The cut that they set won't be sustainable for long. So they're trying to get Valve to give a bigger cut before they have to give a smaller cut.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 10, 2019)

T-hug said:


> But it's not exclusive, it's on PC in both instances, you just click a different icon to play it.


Don't be facetious now, Epic themselves refer to them as exclusives.  If they were available on GOG or literally anywhere else other than EGS, this wouldn't be an issue.  Nor would it be an issue if Epic stuck to first-party exclusives, as Origin, Battle.net, and all the rest do.



T-hug said:


> No, I just don't understand the tirade of hate against a company that is trying to help game developers get a bigger cut from their work.


That's just smoke and mirrors.  Every PC storefront and console storefront has the same 30% fee, yet Sweeney only ever mentions or complains about Steam.  Epic is hemorrhaging money in an attempt to get their competition to adopt an unsustainable cut.


----------



## hiroakihsu (Jun 10, 2019)

Armadillo said:


> Epic trying to kill kickstarters now as well. 2nd game with the bait and switch, back the game for a steam key, then switch to epic. Keep doing it and people will stop backing stuff.



What's the 1st game?


----------



## T-hug (Jun 10, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Don't be facetious now, Epic themselves refer to them as exclusives.  If they were available on GOG or literally anywhere else other than EGS, this wouldn't be an issue.  Nor would it be an issue if Epic stuck to first-party exclusives, as Origin, Battle.net, and all the rest do.



I'm not being facetious, people are acting as if they are now suddenly unable to play the game (as it would be if it were a true exclusive) when they are in fact choosing not to just because it's on a different client.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 10, 2019)

T-hug said:


> I'm not being facetious, people are acting as if they are now suddenly unable to play the game (as it would be if it were a true exclusive) when they are in fact choosing not to just because it's on a different client.


Besides the lack of features, there's good reason to worry about EGS' security flaws and their management of private data.  Which makes piracy the more appealing option in all respects.


----------



## Exaltys (Jun 10, 2019)

Just gonna put this yikes down right here


----------



## Volttekka (Jun 10, 2019)

While I have my own opinions on the whole Steam vs EGS vs alternatives issue, the crux of this situation is more about the flagrant violation of the trust between backers and the company for the company's benefit. The Kickstarter had no implications of any sort of exclusivity deal during it's active fundraising period, so to suddenly pull a "Gotcha!" on the backers and alter the terms of the agreement without forewarning is a direct insult to the individuals who pledged money towards the end product.


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

I do think its quite funny that probably zero of the people outraged about this were ever gonna play Shenmue in the first place.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 10, 2019)

Volttekka said:


> While I have my own opinions on the whole Steam vs EGS vs alternatives issue, the crux of this situation is more about the flagrant violation of the trust between backers and the company for the company's benefit. The Kickstarter had no implications of any sort of exclusivity deal during it's active fundraising period, so to suddenly pull a "Gotcha!" on the backers and alter the terms of the agreement without forewarning is a direct insult to the individuals who pledged money towards the end product.


Precisely, this bait and switch bullshit shows a clear disdain for their own customers/backers.  If you haven't decided which launcher you're going with yet, don't offer Steam keys as an option.  Just put 'PC (launcher TBD)' or something like that instead.  Not an ounce of common sense was applied to their decision-making here.



Robfozz said:


> I do think its quite funny that probably zero of the people outraged about this were ever gonna play Shenmue in the first place.


You know Shenmue 1&2 are both on Steam, right?  Not only do I own those, I own a copy of Shenmue for Dreamcast too.  The fact that it's kind of a niche game series makes it an even worse idea to tie it to a niche storefront instead of giving it as much exposure as possible.


----------



## jmrodrigues (Jun 10, 2019)

I'm almost certain Shenmue 3 will be one of the biggest game flops ever. It looks really dated, it should have been released 10 years ago. I liked the other two on Dreamcast, but this one seems that has not evolved much.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 10, 2019)

Xzi said:


> That's just smoke and mirrors.  Every PC storefront and console storefront has the same 30% fee, yet Sweeney only ever mentions or complains about Steam.  Epic is hemorrhaging money in an attempt to get their competition to adopt an unsustainable cut.



I don't see how it is unsustainable. CDN for what will likely be about 25 gigs of data per transaction + credit card processing for reasonable sums (credit card companies get a bit fidgety with with low volume transactions, full price games) is not that expensive a concept, something 12.5% of 60$ or whatever games cost is more than able to cover.

Similarly it is not going to be like when a supermarket or big hardware shows up, does 24 hours at low prices and closes everybody else down. In one case I click buy this game, enter details and get my code/download added, and the other I do the exact same.

Read the link about him saying devs are key here. I am not seeing the problem. If the experience is mostly that of a basic transaction 





hiroakihsu said:


> What's the 1st game?


There are two main ones prior to this. Phoenix Point and Outer Wilds. I have not kept up with things to see if they have gone back or anything though.


----------



## KingVamp (Jun 10, 2019)

Robfozz said:


> I do think its quite funny that probably zero of the people outraged about this were ever gonna play Shenmue in the first place.


Like all the people that help fund this game?


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 10, 2019)

KingVamp said:


> Like all the people that help fund this game?


Im obviously joking but it is true that this is getting pretty blown up for a game very few will actually play lol


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2019)

Robfozz said:


> Im obviously joking but it is true that this is getting pretty blown up for a game very few will actually play lol


It's getting blown up SPECIFICALLY because it was the fans NOT the companies, that funded this game. They were told repeatedly it was coming to steam. There was never a single mention of the EGS, and now it's suddenly on it exclusively.

That's the big shit kicker in this one.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

StarGazerTom said:


> It's getting blown up SPECIFICALLY because it was the fans NOT the companies, that funded this game. They were told repeatedly it was coming to steam. There was never a single mention of the EGS, and now it's suddenly on it exclusively.
> 
> That's the big shit kicker in this one.


Is it not coming to Steam such an issue? Navigate to slightly different URL and download there instead. It is not like a promised multiplayer mode was dropped or something.

Any number of games that got their start with a bit of crowdfunding got themselves a corporate friend to help finish. Don't see this as being especially different here.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I don't see how it is unsustainable.


Like I said, Epic is hemorrhaging money in order to maintain that cut, it's only because of Fortnite's success that it's been able to go on this long.  They're even mismanaging that game, however, so it won't be more than another year or so before they have to raise their cut to match everybody else.



FAST6191 said:


> Read the link about him saying devs are key here. I am not seeing the problem.


The problem with that statement is obvious.  Customers decide where to spend their money, CEOs don't decide for them.  If you offer a shittier service, no amount of exclusive content is going to make up for that.  It's like running a retail storefront out of an unfinished trailer and expecting to compete with Wal-Mart just because you sell an exclusive flavor of gum.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Like I said, Epic is hemorrhaging money in order to maintain that cut, it's only because of Fortnite's success that it's been able to go on this long.  They're even mismanaging that game, however, so it won't be more than another year or so before they have to raise their cut to match everybody else.
> 
> 
> The problem with that statement is obvious.  Customers decide where to spend their money, CEOs don't decide for them.  If you offer a shittier service, no amount of exclusive content is going to make up for that.



I have seen smaller companies with less funding do OK shifting more data for lower prices. If Epic or Steam or anybody can't make it work then that has to be on them. Also do we have a source that Epic is burning money on this one? Even if they are is it not similar to how you have to advertise your way into prominence in a saturated market?

If you offer an acceptable service though then that can change. As all Epic have to do is allow me to purchase, download and launch said game, none of which are especially technical feats. Incidental niceties might be nice but if we are allowed gaming terms then that core loop is in place then incidentals (most of which are basic OS functionality or simple programs to download, or indeed you might already download them when the bundled versions come up short) are just that


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 11, 2019)

When EGS fixes the security flaws, adds a shopping cart, doesn't flag your account for fraud for "buying too many games in a short period" and isn't run by a loser CEO, please, let me know.  Until then, I refuse to install malware and spyware that tracks people who play games on Steam, yeah, why do they need that info again? Oh I know, they don't.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> When EGS adds a shopping cart,


Is it really that big a deal for you? Do you really often go buy 15 games at once such that you now suffer by having to do them one by one manually?


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I have seen smaller companies with less funding do OK shifting more data for lower prices. If Epic or Steam or anybody can't make it work then that has to be on them.


What smaller company, exactly?  Every launcher on PC is backed by a big player in the gaming industry.  The ones that weren't quickly failed.



FAST6191 said:


> Also do we have a source that Epic is burning money on this one? Even if they are is it not similar to how you have to advertise your way into prominence in a saturated market?


Tim Sweeney has himself Tweeted that the current revenue split will not be sustainable for all regions and is likely to be raised in the future.  I'm not great with Twitter so I can't find exactly the Tweet I'm looking for.  The only way I can see it being sustainable in any region is if EGS continues to offer zero real benefits to either customers or developers.



FAST6191 said:


> If you offer an acceptable service though then that can change. As all Epic have to do is allow me to purchase, download and launch said game, none of which are especially technical feats.


If that's all customers expected of their launcher, Origin, uPlay and Battle.net would all have a much larger market share by now.  Why should anyone use a service that doesn't provide any benefit over piracy?


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Is it really that big a deal for you? Do you really often go buy 15 games at once such that you now suffer by having to do them one by one manually?



Oh, so the other criticisms didn't bother you? At least add a shopping cart, is it really that big of a deal to program a simple sodding shopping cart? I mean, this is 2019, get with the times, Epic. Also doesn't help that the program was accused of using spyware to track people playing games on Steam, yeah, totally not a dick thing to do, but I digress.  Expect nothing less from a numskull CEO.


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Is it really that big a deal for you? Do you really often go buy 15 games at once such that you now suffer by having to do them one by one manually?


There's other issues, such as their invasive rooting through your steam data to offer the same friends on their own store.

Plus with the world becoming more and more creeped out by China (Huawei), alot of folks are fairly skeptical of anything coming out of that area of the world.


----------



## Pipistrele (Jun 11, 2019)

jmrodrigues said:


> I'm almost certain Shenmue 3 will be one of the biggest game flops ever. It looks really dated, it should have been released 10 years ago. I liked the other two on Dreamcast, but this one seems that has not evolved much.



Shenmue 1&2 were two of the biggest flops ever (literally contributed to death of Dreamcast, and Sega as a console maker), so it'll only be fitting! I hope the game will be good though


----------



## Armadillo (Jun 11, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Oh, so the other criticisms didn't bother you? At least add a shopping cart, is it really that big of a deal to program a simple sodding shopping cart? I



Don't bother mate. Had this song and dance with him before in the last epic topic. Everything epic is missing is just handwaved as not a big deal. Waste of your time to go through it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Robfozz said:


> I do think its quite funny that probably zero of the people outraged about this were ever gonna play Shenmue in the first place.



Backers are outraged. I guess all the people who backed it for Steam key done it for laugh and were not interested in the game.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Jun 11, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> How much is that numbskull Tim Sweeny and Epic paying you guys to defend them?


Nothing. The highs at epic games sure are a bunch of assholes, but i cant blame the whole company when there are people who have nothing to do with the store.

So, not blaming the whole of epic, but also not defending them, but yeah, Tim can go fuck himself.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> What smaller company, exactly?  Every launcher on PC is backed by a big player in the gaming industry.  The ones that weren't quickly failed.
> 
> 
> Tim Sweeney has himself Tweeted that the current revenue split will not be sustainable for all regions and is likely to be raised in the future.  I'm not great with Twitter so I can't find exactly the Tweet I'm looking for.  The only way I can see it being sustainable in any region is if EGS continues to offer zero real benefits to either customers or developers.
> ...



Not game launchers. Some of the data backup and CDN services charge far less for far more. I also had a quick snout at what colo locations charge for data and even assuming epic didn't have a full sysadmin/storage type team already on the books then spinning such a thing up is nothing too drastic. It is a slightly different setup (no real uploads, different sizes, different storage requirements) to the one I back of the enveloped for Nintendo's online charging the other month but I am not predicting the end result to be that much different, and probably still a rounding error for Epic. Or alternatively if Valve is positively swimming in the money doing what they do (Steam is pretty much their main income at this point) then there seems to be a nice bit of margin there.

If a company wants to act as infrastructure and leave other people to fill in the gaps then I am OK with that.

I don't see it. Having some incentive for people to use your platform seems like a pretty sound plan. If you can't make enough games for it to be that then buying some in also works.




the_randomizer said:


> Oh, so the other criticisms didn't bother you? At least add a shopping cart, is it really that big of a deal to program a simple sodding shopping cart? I mean, this is 2019, get with the times, Epic. Also doesn't help that the program was accused of using spyware to track people playing games on Steam, yeah, totally not a dick thing to do, but I digress.  Expect nothing less from a numskull CEO.


Is it that big a deal not to have one for a games service? As far as end results are concerned I am probably only marginally more concerned about this one than I am about them not having a guestbook.

As for the other things I covered a few already in an earlier post. Every CEO I have ever seen or met for a vaguely big company are cunts. It is pretty much part of the requirements. This one seems about in line with standard and has not done anything too outrageous -- boo hoo some game devs were asked to work long hours, because that has not been standard for decades, especially among the top tier devs, and they could not have taken a job at a thousand other tech firms or industries with better conditions.

Overzealous fraud detection. Hope they get it sorted. If I did not change my bank when their fraud department declared that me buying online using their secure portal as part of it, from a massive electronics vendor that I have ordered from dozens of times before (I also order electronics a lot with it being part of what I do), to be delivered to my house (the same one I was listed at in their systems) and blocked my card then I am not going to lose too much sleep over this, or at least I can declare it a good faith effort. I also don't know what the numbers involved in this example were. I am assuming if it was something ridiculously low like 3 then I would have heard that when the potential complaint was noted.

The spying with consent thing was a dick move. If they apologised and removed it then I can chalk it up to a youthful indiscretion. No great harm done in the long run from what I can see -- we have seen something vaguely similar before when skype and MSN/hotmail all but tricked people into merging accounts which caused some fun and games, or when some of the film rental companies and IMDB or something merged and inadvertently outed a few people that had left reviews, but nobody has really made a case here as to what might have been bad beyond the general invasion of a bit of privacy thing.

Edit.


Armadillo said:


> Don't bother mate. Had this song and dance with him before in the last epic topic. Everything epic is missing is just handwaved as not a big deal. Waste of your time to go through it.


For what it is worth I like neither. Quite looking forward to one or both going pop -- whoever loses we all win. Don't see either as contributing anything of substance to games, however I really really dislike Steam's position on the market, attitude and approach to the world, and have done from the start and throughout it all whenever things have come to light or been attempted so when something is taking a convincing run at it then some things can be overlooked. Especially when most of what they are doing is standard business (if you can't build something in house or it costs too much money/time then buy it in), costs nobody much of anything* (other than the paltry offerings on linux that will be no more, or no more for a little while nobody really loses anything -- the exact same PC will still run the game, the same card will be able to buy the game, and I can still sit here in my boxers and buy it trivially either way...) and the client program lacks a few programs that are done better outside it for the most part or have been done for years outside it just fine.

*if Ford buys up a bunch of patents such that Vauxhall can't use them then that could be annoying. This is not that though as again the same PC will play the same game.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> Or alternatively if Valve is positively swimming in the money doing what they do (Steam is pretty much their main income at this point) then there seems to be a nice bit of margin there.


Steam got to where it is now by selling a fuckton of games, not by selling just a few at a high profit margin.  As I said, 30% is undeniably the standard across every other PC launcher and console storefront.  The onus is on Epic to prove that they can maintain their cut for more than just the short-term, and we are still very much in the short-term as far as EGS is concerned.



FAST6191 said:


> If a company wants to act as infrastructure and leave other people to fill in the gaps then I am OK with that.


You personally might be okay with it, but based on the state of PC gaming in the early 2000s, the majority of customers will gladly turn to piracy if they gain access to the exact same feature set that way.  We're now seeing the deluge of far too many  under-featured and overly-messy TV/movie streaming services starting to drive people in that direction as well.


----------



## Hells Malice (Jun 11, 2019)

Armadillo said:


> Epic trying to kill kickstarters now as well. 2nd game with the bait and switch, back the game for a steam key, then switch to epic. Keep doing it and people will stop backing stuff.
> 
> Wonder if the Epic moneyhat will cover all the refunds.



That's not what a bait and switch is, at all. The Epic store didn't exist when Shenmue 3 was funded. It was funded in 2015. Epic Game Store launched 2018. How the fuck do you "bait and switch" for a service that didn't exist for 3 years?

It's obviously a shitty thing to do and I hope they honour all refunds to backers. No need to call a duck a goose and get pissed off about it though. It's not a "scam", just bad business.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

Hells Malice said:


> That's not what a bait and switch is, at all. The Epic store didn't exist when Shenmue 3 was funded. It was funded in 2015. Epic Game Store launched 2018. How the fuck do you "bait and switch" for a service that didn't exist for 3 years?


Err...because backers were given the option to select a Steam key specifically?  Changing to any other service after offering those keys is a bait and switch by definition.  If they hadn't specified the platform and instead just offered the option to receive the game on 'PC,' the shitstorm surrounding this decision wouldn't have been nearly as deserved.


----------



## Armadillo (Jun 11, 2019)

Hells Malice said:


> That's not what a bait and switch is, at all. The Epic store didn't exist when Shenmue 3 was funded. It was funded in 2015. Epic Game Store launched 2018. How the fuck do you "bait and switch" for a service that didn't exist for 3 years?
> 
> It's obviously a shitty thing to do and I hope they honour all refunds to backers. No need to call a duck a goose and get pissed off about it though. It's not a "scam", just bad business.



I'll call it what it is.

Even as late as 2018 when they offered the slacker backer, where late comers could get in on it or upgrade, the pc option was "Steam key".

2018 epic store existed, 2018 backers were offered a Steam key. That's "how the fuck" you bait and switch.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

Chary said:


> I went from not really interested to definitely not interested.


I know, but 

minus the beard on FAST6191.

You could always...do that thing you did with Ow the Edge to give some laughs in time. 
All wounds heal, in time.

I'd like to know how you deal with all the planned Gachapon.


----------



## Hells Malice (Jun 11, 2019)

Armadillo said:


> I'll call it what it is.




You're free to be an idiot. I'm just explaining to you why you look like one.


----------



## Armadillo (Jun 11, 2019)

Hells Malice said:


> You're free to be an idiot. I'm just explaining to you why you look like one.



Oh, so we are just going to ignore the 2018 backers? The backers who backed during slacker backer? The same ones that were offered a Steam key? Epic store existed in 2018, Steam keys were what were offered still in 2018 to late backers.

Oh insults. Same as normal from you then. No problem. Carry on being a cunt and ignore what proves the switch and you wrong then, everyone can see that as well.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Steam got to where it is now by selling a fuckton of games, not by selling just a few at a high profit margin.  As I said, 30% is undeniably the standard across every other PC launcher and console storefront.  The onus is on Epic to prove that they can maintain their cut for more than just the short-term, and we are still very much in the short-term as far as EGS is concerned.
> 
> 
> You personally might be okay with it, but based on the state of PC gaming in the early 2000s, the majority of customers will gladly turn to piracy if they gain access to the exact same feature set that way.  We're now seeing the deluge of far too many  under-featured and overly-messy TV/movie streaming services starting to drive people in that direction as well.




PC gaming in the early 2000s was doing fine, or did you actually believe the "PC gaming is dead" stuff? Were it not for the time after that with the rise of later stage directx9 being even better then I might say it was the best time I ever had really.

As for 30% I am not sure why I want to be wedded to that as a hard concept, especially not for resources as stagnant as PC gaming today when bandwidth and such is dropping by the minute. If someone is offering a better deal then why not take it? If it turns out they are spunking all their capital to acquire me as a customer then who cares? Things will settle down after they go pop. If they happen to take out Steam during that then so much the better but someone else will rise up to take their place, if Steam have to sit up and take note then so much the better. All that happened in the meantime was I got a better deal, or the people I want to get my money got a better deal if prices are to be the same. I also don't see how steam selling high volumes at low margins makes much difference here -- they are swimming in the funds either way if they have money to waste on the frivolities they are wasting them on and thus they have the margins there to play with.

I am similarly not getting to where the TV service subscription stuff is comparable to here -- they all seem to want a monthly subscription to add to the already large pile where one would previously might have done. Another free account on another service? Hardly the same thing.



Xzi said:


> Err...because backers were given the option to select a Steam key specifically?  Changing to any other service after offering those keys is a bait and switch by definition.  If they hadn't specified the platform and instead just offered the option to receive the game on 'PC,' the shitstorm surrounding this decision wouldn't have been nearly as deserved.


Is it truly that much of a pain to have to watch your emails and click on another link when it happens? I am still not seeing why Steam represents such a value proposition that losing the option for it, especially here when people have presumably already stumped up for it so not even losing, should get me upset. If I am getting less hours of gameplay, no multiplayer when there was said to be one, storylines set to be resolved now being dropped, graphics being dropped, musicians on the initial billing not being there in as much capacity, missed delivery dates/milestone dates... that seems like things worth being upset over.


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 11, 2019)

DeslotlCL said:


> Nothing. The highs at epic games sure are a bunch of assholes, but i cant blame the whole company when there are people who have nothing to do with the store.
> 
> So, not blaming the whole of epic, but also not defending them, but yeah, Tim can go fuck himself.



I.. wasn't directing that to you, sorry -_-


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> PC gaming in the early 2000s was doing fine, or did you actually believe the "PC gaming is dead" stuff?


Not dead, the piracy rate was just exponentially higher with every game having its own separate shortcut/launcher.  And why wouldn't it be?  Nobody was offering an appealing alternative at the time.



FAST6191 said:


> As for 30% I am not sure why I want to be wedded to that as a hard concept, especially not for resources as stagnant as PC gaming today when bandwidth and such is dropping by the minute. If someone is offering a better deal then why not take it?


Because there's no compelling reason for the customer to care about what the publisher's cut is, and again, the customer decides where their money is spent.  So far, EGS exclusives are suffering much lower-than-expected sales precisely because Epic only makes an effort toward publisher appeasement.



FAST6191 said:


> I am still not seeing why Steam represents such a value proposition that losing the option for it, especially here when people have presumably already stumped up for it so not even losing, should get me upset.


You're not?  Because last I checked, EGS doesn't even have proper controller support.  It's plainly obvious how much EGS is lacking, even compared to lesser competition such as Origin.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

Armadillo said:


> Oh insults





FAST6191 said:


> I am similarly not getting to where the TV service subscription stuff is comparable to here



My fellows, c'mon!?! 
Realistically, I need you for my plan to come to fruition.
Idealistically, we would all get along over our preferred cake/pie and coffee/tea, but don't tear each-others heads' off now.

There's a bond between us that you don't know yet, but, let us keep it civil?? I really want a cohesive-mix between  



Spoiler: all of us











Hells, no offense, but your role is interchangeable between VinsC. Seriously, no offense.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Not dead, the piracy rate was just exponentially higher with every game having its own separate shortcut/launcher.  And why wouldn't it be?  Nobody was offering an appealing alternative at the time.
> 
> 
> Because there's no compelling reason for the customer to care about what the publisher's cut is, and again, the customer decides where their money is spent.  So far, EGS exclusives are suffering much lower-than-expected sales precisely because Epic only makes an effort toward publisher appeasement.
> ...



I am not seeing where EGS threatens some kind of paradise we presently find ourselves in.

If I am paying for a game I presumably want the publishers to make some money and make more games. If they get more out of the deal then I can see caring there. I am not sure I would attribute lower sales to Epic's publisher appeasement -- less visibility, steam stockholm syndrome suffers, less drive by purchasing from whatever the Steam equivalent of a trending/we thought you might like, much of which could well be offset by a better cut and in some cases an upfront chunk of change.

Whatever the modern equivalent of joy2key is I am sure will suffice for that one. If the core loop of purchase, download, play is there then the rest can be incidental or have to be cobbled together as necessary for those that want it. I am half reminded of the "everybody uses 10% of the functionality of the program, just everybody uses a different 10%" we used to have in discussions of MS Office and their dominance over the space.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I am not seeing where EGS threatens some kind of paradise we presently find ourselves in.


Third-party exclusivity does not belong on PC.  Period.  It's not that we had a paradise without it, only that customers had more freedom of choice in where to buy their games.



FAST6191 said:


> If I am paying for a game I presumably want the publishers to make some money and make more games.


I want the developers to make more, the publishers I couldn't care less about.  They're the ones forcing microtransactions and incomplete games down our throats, and they make sure that they get their cut first no matter what.



FAST6191 said:


> Whatever the modern equivalent of joy2key is I am sure will suffice for that one.


Again you're excusing away the inexcusable.  Even amateur software developers would know better than to release software in the state that EGS is currently in.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Third-party exclusivity does not belong on PC.  Period.  It's not that we had a paradise without it, only that customers had more freedom of choice in where to buy their games.
> 
> 
> I want the developers to make more, the publishers I couldn't care less about.  They're the ones forcing microtransactions and incomplete games down our throats, and they make sure that they get their cut first no matter what.
> ...



If someone wants to try then I will not begrudge them the choice to attempt it. I would similarly much like a return to something like we had with physical games where nobody particularly controlled anything. If Epic have to become a monster to slay Valve then I am OK with that, and from what I have seen thus far Epic aren't even being all that shady.

OK. I am all for greedy pubs getting a slap too. How is that related to this Epic vs Valve spat?

If the core loop works then I can take some alpha open source level stuff here, or features trivially replicated with other free software. I would similarly not view Steam as some kind of bastion of quality.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> the publishers I couldn't care less about. They're the ones forcing microtransactions and incomplete games down our throats, and they make sure that they get their cut first no matter what.



This will be documented in the future. Trust me, this is bigger than you think. Nothing negative, but be "you". Stay you.


----------



## luisedgarf (Jun 11, 2019)

shaunj66 said:


> The comments section of the KS update is being hammered by angry backers. I've updated the news to reflect this. It's going to be a PR nightmare for them. Rightfully so to be honest. You can't just bait and switch people like that.



Especially western backers, and very especially American ones.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> If Epic have to become a monster to slay Valve then I am OK with that, and from what I have seen thus far Epic aren't even being all that shady.


Epic will run out of exclusivity money long before they put the slightest dent in Steam's sales numbers.  Their whole strategy reeks of desperation, and Gabe Newell sniffed that out from the very beginning.



FAST6191 said:


> OK. I am all for greedy pubs getting a slap too. How is that related to this Epic vs Valve spat?


Epic awards exclusivity payouts to publishers, not developers.  An important distinction because the publishers can choose to not pass any of it on.



FAST6191 said:


> If the core loop works then I can take some alpha open source level stuff here, or features trivially replicated with other free software. I would similarly not view Steam as some kind of bastion of quality.


Yet Steam added native support for the Switch Pro controller within weeks of Switch's release.  Hell, Valve recently added SteamVR input support to UE4, meaning that Valve is actively making more improvements to EGS than Epic is.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> If Epic have to become a monster to slay Valve



This will not occur as hoped.
These people have looked into the "pronoun game".
They know about "how the mind works", as far as the "patterns of the brain"-- this has been planned for years (TRUST, IT'S BEEN YEARS) and we're falling in-to-piece with what "they" want.

At the best, we can "hope"; we can make "jokes", about what "they" do.

It sounds crazy, but that is exactly the best move, with a pawn, that you can do--they've aimed to take your King and Queen from turn 1.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> This will be documented in the future. Trust me, this is bigger than you think. Nothing negative, but be "you". Stay you.


The Outer Worlds going EGS exclusive hit me the hardest.  I'm not going to wait through a year of exclusivity, so my plan is to pirate the game, and then if it turns out to be as good as I expect it to be, I'm going to send $60 cash straight to Obsidian's main office.  Along with a letter explaining my reasoning.  Developers first.


----------



## Armadillo (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> The Outer Worlds going EGS exclusive hit me the hardest.  I'm not going to wait through a year of exclusivity, so my plan is to pirate the game, and then if it turns out to be as good as I expect it to be, I'm going to send $60 cash straight to Obsidian's main office.  Along with a letter explaining my reasoning.  Developers first.



Outer worlds is on gamepass as well I think, same as metro.


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

Armadillo said:


> Outer worlds is on gamepass as well I think, same as metro.


Oh that's right, I think they did announce recently it'll be coming to the new Win10 Xbox store too.  I'll have to give that a try, at least the odds that it's superior to EGS are really good.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> so my plan


I feel you and commend you for bravery, but this is the time of "Shhh, Shhh, the monster will hear."

The plan of action is sarcasm; the wonder of saying what you mean, but "in a clown car, versus a Lambo."

For them, even pirating the game is saying, "We did something right, wooo!"
Obviously, you can't shit on a game in this day and age without backlash, but there's a trick.....soon, all will fall into place...or it won't, we're all doomed, and "Addounia, (yeah)" is gonna jizz on our faces.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Epic will run out of exclusivity money long before they put the slightest dent in Steam's sales numbers.  Their whole strategy reeks of desperation, and Gabe Newell sniffed that out from the very beginning.
> 
> 
> Epic awards exclusivity payouts to publishers, not developers.  An important distinction because the publishers can choose to not pass any of it on.
> ...



So Epic go down in flames and some things go limping back to Steam to be rammed by their diamond encrusted dildo the same same before. Where is the loss?

If the publishers are the nominal owners of the property/project (something every single effort in any IP governed field will do and has done for probably more than a century, give or take minor quirks for accounting purposes) then I don't see how they could give to the devs if they have a pub already on board. What this has to do with Valve vs Epic and Epic's purported transgressions in it all I don't know.

Sweet. More improvements for me. Still not sure why I should be in a rush to diss Epic or suck up to Valve here.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 11, 2019)

No refunds for those that wanted a Steam copy? Weird..


----------



## Xzi (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> So Epic go down in flames and some things go limping back to Steam to be rammed by their diamond encrusted dildo the same same before. Where is the loss?


Customers lose out on purchasing options and basic feature support.  Developers lose out on sales and more exposure for their games.



FAST6191 said:


> If the publishers are the nominal owners of the property/project (something every single effort in any IP governed field will do and has done for probably more than a century, give or take minor quirks for accounting purposes) then I don't see how they could give to the devs if they have a pub already on board. What this has to do with Valve vs Epic and Epic's purported transgressions in it all I don't know.


Just tired of hearing the false claim that Epic is more 'pro-developer' than Valve ad nauseum.  Epic recently discounted pre-order games in their sale without alerting the publishers/developers, and those games were temporarily pulled from EGS as a result.



FAST6191 said:


> Sweet. More improvements for me. Still not sure why I should be in a rush to diss Epic or suck up to Valve here.


You're an incredibly forgiving guy, but I'm sure you're aware that the vast majority of gamers are not.  Epic knows that they're pissing a lot of people off, they just don't care.  Tim Sweeney makes for a better internet troll than a CEO.


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> You're an incredibly forgiving guy


As are you, I know this..We have to let "them" do this--none of us want this, but it has to pass.

The reason? To birth something they have no control over.
The crescendo crashes.

Everyone is playing their part to a "T(-pose).

2020 is the year.


----------



## reddragon105 (Jun 11, 2019)

Guys, I agree with most of you - what Epic is doing is not good. They're free to have their own store if they want to (as long as they can code it and run it well, so that it doesn't break or steal our data and so that developers know what is happening with their games on it) and they're free to take less commission, if they think that will entice developers over there. I, too, would like a choice of where to buy this game from, and I too would probably choose Steam over Epic, simply because that's where most of my games already are and I want as many in one place as possible, plus friends lists etc. I get what Epic is trying to do - Valve could do with some healthy competition and it's not a big deal to have one more client, as most of us probably already have Steam + at least one or two others installed - but they're going about it the wrong way and it's upsetting a lot of people.

But I think we're losing sight of something important - so far no game has truly become an Epic Games Store exclusive. They are only *timed *exclusives. Meaning Shenmue III - like Metro Exodus, Borderlands 3 and the others - will come to Steam eventually. So, if you want it on Steam, you can and will get it on Steam. You might just have to wait 3-6 months to get it the way you want it. If you don't like what Epic are doing, vote with your wallet by not buying from their store and waiting for the Steam release instead.

With that said, it really is some bullshit that they've done this with a Kickstarted game.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Jun 11, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> I.. wasn't directing that to you, sorry -_-


OOH i'm so sorry D: i knew you were directing it to people defending epic's store, but my reply wasnt supposed to sound mean to you, i just wanted to share my point of view on the thing. As said, not getting angry to the entirely of epic games, since there are people and developes that have nothing to do with the store. One should be angrier to the higher ups and their shitty decisions and way of thinking.

That was all


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

DeslotlCL said:


> i just wanted to share my point of view on the thing



You should not do that. The meaning of what you say is stinging. 

I get what you're getting at, but, the_randomizer  isn't the one.

You'll understand soon™.


----------



## DeslotlCL (Jun 11, 2019)

H1B1Esquire said:


> You should not do that. The meaning of what you say is stinging.
> 
> I get what you're getting at, but, the_randomizer  isn't the one.
> 
> You'll understand soon™.


wait what, im literally an idiot so i dont understand anything at all ;_;


----------



## H1B1Esquire (Jun 11, 2019)

DeslotlCL said:


> so i dont understand anything at all ;_;




It's okay. 

TL;DR
You and the_randomizer are two sides of the coin.


----------



## netovsk (Jun 11, 2019)

Some people are all for exclusivity behind specific hardware but have them download a 120mb client to play a game and they lose their minds!!


----------



## jmrodrigues (Jun 11, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> Shenmue 1&2 were two of the biggest flops ever (literally contributed to death of Dreamcast, and Sega as a console maker), so it'll only be fitting! I hope the game will be good though



I don't know the numbers, but the console failure was not because of Shenmue certainly. Maybe the PS2 success had a more relevant contribution, the lack of DVD player the PS2 and Xbox had, the lack of third party games, such as the WiiU...


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Jun 11, 2019)

The Chad Kiryu of the Yakuza TIGER DROPS the Virgin Hazuki of some house in Yokosuka with Steam releases, being pro-consumer, allowing mods openly, and by being a Level 100 Clan Boss as opposed to Ryo's Level 18 Vengeful Crook, because that's how the yakuza works!

OK, in all seriousness, this isn't making people want to buy the game at all on Epic's platform. If anything, it might direct some of the money that could be going to Epic's Store to the XBOne and PS4 versions of the game. To have a game that fans have been waiting so long for suffer this fate has to be soul crushing. It'd be like if Sonic Mania was revealed to be an EGS exclusive, which wouldn't be much better than it's current situation on PC last I checked (comes with DENUVO, or that DRM that gets cracked very easily, so WTF is the point anymore).

If there's any platform on Steam I'd rather use, it's GOG. Yeah, it's about as decentralized as a platform can get, but that's what I love about it. As much as I love the things Valve has done via Steam for PC gaming, even I am not blind to the fact that not everything worth it is going to last forever, and that one day, Valve will be spoken of in the same vein as companies like Atari that were the best at what they did one day until management that didn't have the same vision as the previous gets replaced by less competent/passionate/*insert characteristic here* management.

But until then, I'd rather rely on the lesser of evils than just become some drone defending Epic or accusing people of not wanting to install another launcher for a service provided by an American company that's slowly getting bought by Tencent.


----------



## wurstpistole (Jun 11, 2019)

Sheesh. Glad I chose ps4 as platform when I backed it. Had I chosen steam, I would now get epic. That's misleading customers


----------



## Essasetic (Jun 11, 2019)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

You might want to update the article with the response they've given and the fact they're refusing refunds.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Jun 11, 2019)

Essasetic said:


> View attachment 169665
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> You might want to update the article with the response they've given and the fact they're refusing refunds.



Can't wait to roast these guys by comparing them to Bloodstained's situation...


----------



## Bladexdsl (Jun 11, 2019)

however it was decided together with deep silver after much discussion *and after we were paid a shitload of $  *that the epic games store would be the best distribution platform option. the rest of the translation we have your $ fuck you no refunds


----------



## eriol33 (Jun 11, 2019)

I don't mind epic games, but too bad they don't offer currencies other than dollars


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Xzi said:


> Customers lose out on purchasing options and basic feature support.  Developers lose out on sales and more exposure for their games.
> 
> 
> Just tired of hearing the false claim that Epic is more 'pro-developer' than Valve ad nauseum.  Epic recently discounted pre-order games in their sale without alerting the publishers/developers, and those games were temporarily pulled from EGS as a result.
> ...



Basic features or largely irrelevant features that can be trivially replicated, for free too? Purchasing options wise then new day, same as the old day -- if things are not objectively worse then meh. On devs then making omelettes requires you break a few eggs.

Fair enough. I would agree entirely Epic's pro dev stance is tissue thin, possibly even more so than Valve's similar claims, and completely self serving, same as every company ever really. That move linked there was a dick move if it played out as the headline describes.

I am familiar with gamers being more than happy to take those providing the games, journalistic coverage of said same, reviewing said same, doing dubious practices and more to task, and them being aware of it, however this anti Epic lark seems misplaced at best and at worst may deny of one of the best chances in years to take Valve out.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> however this anti Epic lark seems misplaced at best and at worst may deny of one of the best chances in years to take Valve out.





Man, are the Epic shills paid so well that they can afford to not hide their biases even subtlely?


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> Man, are the Epic shills paid so well that they can afford to not hide their biases even subtlely?



I have disliked Valve's monopoly, censorious ways and approach to second hand games for years, never hidden it, advocated against them the entire time and put my money where my mouth is, or indeed not put my money anywhere near Valve. If a multi billion dollar corporation I have no stake in wants to declare war on another that is actively harming me and mine (I am really quite upset about the second hand thing, censorship not much better but there are easier workarounds there) and when the dust settles I am still going to have all the same games I would have had before (or near as does not matter), and said war maker is not going about it in a way that is anything other than bog standard business practices then how am I not supposed to encourage it? Why should we treat valve as a sacred cow when they offer nothing of great merit and cost so very much? If Epic knock out Valve and somehow manage to assume their place (doubtful with all the existing players that can spin up incredibly quickly, and more waiting in the wings) and start doing all the same shit then I will be right back here wanting someone to take out Epic.


----------



## Bedel (Jun 11, 2019)

As long as it works with the same PC, I see no problem with this. It's just starting a program or other, and the backers will have the game without any other payment. 
Don't blame Epic so much about this things. They offer some money and beneficts to the developers, and they are the ones who lastly decide if the game is exclusive for EGS or not. It is still better than consoles exclusives in some way.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Jun 11, 2019)

FAST6191 said:


> I have disliked Valve's monopoly, censorious ways and approach to second hand games for years, never hidden it, advocated against them the entire time and put my money where my mouth is, or indeed not put my money anywhere near Valve. If a multi billion dollar corporation I have no stake in wants to declare war on another that is actively harming me and mine (I am really quite upset about the second hand thing, censorship not much better but there are easier workarounds there) and when the dust settles I am still going to have all the same games I would have had before (or near as does not matter), and said war maker is not going about it in a way that is anything other than bog standard business practices then how am I not supposed to encourage it? Why should we treat valve as a sacred cow when they offer nothing of great merit and cost so very much? If Epic knock out Valve and somehow manage to assume their place (doubtful with all the existing players that can spin up incredibly quickly, and more waiting in the wings) and start doing all the same shit then I will be right back here wanting someone to take out Epic.



And that last sentence is why that idea is counterproductive. Yeah, so if Epic takes out Steam, you'll be mudslinging at Epic now? And whoever's on top of the digital distribution dominance hierarchy afterwards? And after that one?

Here's the thing: even if, say, there was a Second Gaming Crash (which I'm highly skeptical of, but let's hypothesize this scenario), and not even Valve could escape the devastating effects on the industry without becoming something else other than what you and I recognize Valve for: a game company that made some games, then jumped on the digital distribution bandwagon so early and became so successful that so many other companies' initiatives have failed or been inconsequential. In this doomsday scenario, people will still be able to play their games _provided _they configure things to run without Steam, as I'm sure many pirated versions of PC games do. Where there's a will, there's a way, and in the age of the Internet, people will come together to form projects in the aftermath.

So no, I don't think Steam is doing anymore harm than what Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, or Google are doing to your physical ownership of games already, especially with how games ship incomplete nowadays and Google's wanting to make streaming standard even if it's a completely unsustainable idea in the US. At the very least, on a PC, you can always modify things to run differently if you run into problems, something that requires jumping through hoops on consoles to be able to do. SJWs censoring everything because they don't know a damn thing about how good they have it (or had it in certain parts of Europe)? Jack Thompsons will always be around as long as the politics benefit them and they can keep their corruption hidden from the rest of the world.

If all hands are corrupt, I'd pick the one that's the least corrupt. And frankly, there's bigger issues in the world to be protesting anyways in the first place.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Bedel said:


> As long as it works with the same PC, I see no problem with this. It's just starting a program or other, and the backers will have the game without any other payment.
> Don't blame Epic so much about this things. They offer some money and beneficts to the developers, and they are the ones who lastly decide if the game is exclusive for EGS or not. It is still better than consoles exclusives in some way.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284

Yeah, not so harmless now, are they?


----------



## doomtrigger (Jun 11, 2019)

Time for charge backs


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> And that last sentence is why that idea is counterproductive. Yeah, so if Epic takes out Steam, you'll be mudslinging at Epic now? And whoever's on top of the digital distribution dominance hierarchy afterwards? And after that one?
> 
> Here's the thing: even if, say, there was a Second Gaming Crash (which I'm highly skeptical of, but let's hypothesize this scenario), and not even Valve could escape the devastating effects on the industry without becoming something else other than what you and I recognize Valve for: a game company that made some games, then jumped on the digital distribution bandwagon so early and became so successful that so many other companies' initiatives have failed or been inconsequential. In this doomsday scenario, people will still be able to play their games _provided _they configure things to run without Steam, as I'm sure many pirated versions of PC games do. Where there's a will, there's a way, and in the age of the Internet, people will come together to form projects in the aftermath.
> 
> ...



If they act in a way I like then I will sheathe my sword until they don't. Taking a small cut to run a CDN and payment processor, all whilst leaving the censorship nonsense behind and allowing second hand games and we are good. I am content to have a top player if they are benevolent.

Picking the least corrupt is an OK short term strategy. In the long term some turmoil now allows at least a chance something actually good will arise.

As far as gaming crashes then I also can't see it happening outside of a societal breakdown. Games have been a part of life for people that are now grandparents. There will always then be some quasi open source or "made as a hobby/part time" effort that does the software industry thing of only having to press copy and paste a few million times to earn themselves the silly money. In the US crash that ultimately birthed Nintendo then games could convincingly have been called a passing fad in the eyes of the people with the money, same as any other toy fad -- I would certainly agree to a statement that computer games speak to something primal in the same way any story telling medium does and thus while the existing infrastructure may become bloated and collapse there will always be demand. It is also why I am not worried in the slightest how many billion dollar company corpses pile up in all this.


----------



## Bedel (Jun 11, 2019)

Silent_Gunner said:


> And that last sentence is why that idea is counterproductive. Yeah, so if Epic takes out Steam, you'll be mudslinging at Epic now? And whoever's on top of the digital distribution dominance hierarchy afterwards? And after that one?
> 
> Here's the thing: even if, say, there was a Second Gaming Crash (which I'm highly skeptical of, but let's hypothesize this scenario), and not even Valve could escape the devastating effects on the industry without becoming something else other than what you and I recognize Valve for: a game company that made some games, then jumped on the digital distribution bandwagon so early and became so successful that so many other companies' initiatives have failed or been inconsequential. In this doomsday scenario, people will still be able to play their games _provided _they configure things to run without Steam, as I'm sure many pirated versions of PC games do. Where there's a will, there's a way, and in the age of the Internet, people will come together to form projects in the aftermath.
> 
> ...


Lmao yes, still harmless. It's something not releated to videogames or this game by itself. Again: blame the devvelopers for choosing what you don't want, not the company for making a REALLY harmless offer to them.


----------



## Silent_Gunner (Jun 11, 2019)

Bedel said:


> Lmao yes, still harmless. It's something not releated to videogames or this game by itself. Again: blame the devvelopers for choosing what you don't want, not the company for making a REALLY harmless offer to them.



Oh, the dev is going to be receiving the brunt of criticism, especially when there's a screencap of a guy who's refund was denied. This isn't looking too good for Kickstarter, and shit like not staying true to your commitments is why we can't have nice things.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 11, 2019)

Refunds here are a tricky one. Kickstarter is an investment platform, or actually worse as you don't get a cut or a stake in the company (some crowdfunding platforms do offer such things), so any refunds are purely good will on the part of the developer. Beyond that I view lack of Steam support as a very dubious reason to be asking for a refund -- not entirely unjustifiable (though if they were good I am sure they would phrase it as we will try to get it on Steam in a form we can agree to thus giving them an out) but petty as all fuck.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Jun 11, 2019)

What's funny is that some of you defending Epic are the same ones bashing Ubisoft for their subscription and game streaming services. The irony..


----------



## Deleted User (Jun 11, 2019)

The word on the street is that Valve is now so stressed about EGS that they've begun working on Half Life 3 and TF3: Battle Royale.
Seriously though.. the fanboy-ism on here is absurd.
Just download the damn game as both clients are sniffing your personal information either way.


----------



## UnobtaniumGamer (Jun 11, 2019)

yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me


----------



## Edgarska (Jun 12, 2019)

This is hilarious.

By this point, if you back kickstarter games you deserve whatever you get in the end.


----------



## Essasetic (Jun 12, 2019)

UPDATE 2: Deep Silver has updated the FAQ of the Shenmue III website to say it will come to Steam... eventually. Since the exclusivity period for the Epic Games Store lasts one year. It'll be unlikely that we'll see Shenmue III before November 2020 on Steam.

https://shenmue3.deepsilver.com/en.html#faq


----------



## ChibiMofo (Jun 14, 2019)

SpiffyJUNIOR said:


> Do they not realize EGS is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with gaming right now?



Actually, Steam has held that position for a long, long time. Some of you are so used to having the scumbags of Steam in your life, that you have forgotten how much you hate them and why.

I haven't.


----------



## SpiffyJUNIOR (Jun 14, 2019)

1MiinMofo said:


> Actually, Steam has held that position for a long, long time. Some of you are so used to having the scumbags of Steam in your life, that you have forgotten how much you hate them and why.
> 
> I haven't.


lmfao flamebait


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 14, 2019)

1MiinMofo said:


> Actually, Steam has held that position for a long, long time. Some of you are so used to having the scumbags of Steam in your life, that you have forgotten how much you hate them and why.
> 
> I haven't.



How much is Epic paying you to suck them off?


----------



## SpiffyJUNIOR (Jun 14, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> How much is Epic paying you to suck them off?


Flamebait, ignore him unless you really want to make fun of him


----------



## the_randomizer (Jun 14, 2019)

SpiffyJUNIOR said:


> Flamebait, ignore him unless you really want to make fun of him



Nah I'm good, too much of a hassle. Lots of EGS sycophants on the internet unfortunately.


----------



## FAST6191 (Jun 14, 2019)

the_randomizer said:


> Nah I'm good, too much of a hassle. Lots of EGS sycophants on the internet unfortunately.


Are Valve and their Steam service a group worth defending? Would you not say them having something of a dominant position, and with that then doing what they can to stymie second hand sales, being noted censors and otherwise being top notch cunts make the post you originally quoted a potentially interesting thing to explore?


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## KingVamp (Jun 15, 2019)

Was it clarify rather this was timed or not?


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## Javiecoentr (Jun 21, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> The folk has a point though - Valve doesn't even try to do anything with the situation, and the fact that EGS has most of the lucrative upcoming PC exclusives at this point is to a good part because of Valve sitting in a corner and doing jack crap. It was also at least a few years since they provided fans with something they want, and it doesn't seem they have anything in development either.


Dude are you trying to say that dota is bad?? because i have to say that you're wrong, now dota makes a lot of changes, and the games are awesome, graphics are awesome, etc. so i think that you are wrong.


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## Pipistrele (Jun 21, 2019)

Javiecoentr said:


> Dude are you trying to say that dota is bad?? because i have to say that you're wrong, now dota makes a lot of changes, and the games are awesome, graphics are awesome, etc. so i think that you are wrong.


As good as Dota is (or isn't), Valve should definitely do more than overrely on half a decade old (at best) games as their selling point.


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## ChizdaMasai (Jul 14, 2019)

Pipistrele said:


> As good as Dota is (or isn't), Valve should definitely do more than overrely on half a decade old (at best) games as their selling point.


I don't think that Valve is gonna invest in graphics and in games. Dota is good, and it is probably the only game that has some good graphics. Gaben doesn't give a f*u/*ck for any Valve game, fat arsehole.


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