# Kiwi Farms is finally no more. Cloudflare, hCaptcha and DDoS-Guard dropped support for the website



## Cris1997XX (Sep 6, 2022)

I know Kotaku is the cancer of videogame journalism (Among other places -*Cough cough IGN*), but here is an article they made on Kiwi Farms' demise. Do you think Near/Byuu will have the justice they deserve? https://kotaku.com/kiwi-farms-dead-closed-rip-shut-down-russia-telegram-1849498373


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## FAST6191 (Sep 6, 2022)

Is it actually dead? Saw some interviews with the creator a little while ago and it seemed there were still plenty of options available even if big tech decides to play censor.


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## DBlaze (Sep 6, 2022)

It's just cloudflare blocking it, so no, not much dead at all, even cloudflare itself thinks they will just find another infrastructure


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## Minox (Sep 6, 2022)

Byuu? Do we have further proof that he is gone other than the "trust me bro" comment?


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 6, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Is it actually dead? Saw some interviews with the creator a little while ago and it seemed there were still plenty of options available even if big tech decides to play censor.


What I've read is that they brought destruction upon themselves (SWATing Marjorie Taylor Green and calling in bomb threats in Dublin weren't their brightest moves, to be honest). After such a shitty track record I doubt people will want to deal with them again


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## Veho (Sep 6, 2022)

FAST6191 said:


> Is it actually dead? Saw some interviews with the creator a little while ago and it seemed there were still plenty of options available even if big tech decides to play censor.


Looks like those options bailed.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 6, 2022)

Veho said:


> Looks like those options bailed.


Whoops, I guess the place and all of its members are doomed


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## City (Sep 6, 2022)

I'm all for freedom of speech, but Kiwifarms was like paparazzi if they harassed people with mental issues, and threatened/doxxed them. I'm unsure what the goal was to make a statement like that. IIRC he had a part in the forum dedicated to people asking him to take down stuff they didn't like (basically threads mocking them).

What I find depressing is that the nail of the coffin for those companies wasn't the content, but the DDoS attacks. Kinda sad. 4chan in comparison is a lot better. Don't get me wrong, it's still shit, but the staff avoids stunts like they did there.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 6, 2022)

City said:


> I'm all for freedom of speech, but Kiwifarms was like paparazzi if they harassed people with mental issues, and threatened/doxxed them. I'm unsure what the goal was to make a statement like that. IIRC he had a part in the forum dedicated to people asking him to take down stuff they didn't like (basically threads mocking them).
> 
> What I find depressing is that the nail of the coffin for those companies wasn't the content, but the DDoS attacks. Kinda sad. 4chan in comparison is a lot better. Don't get me wrong, it's still shit, but the staff avoids stunts like they did there.


Yeah, I'd definitely choose 4chan over this shithole any day


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## Valwinz (Sep 6, 2022)

another Hit against free speech sad times we live in. hopefully it will be back


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## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 6, 2022)

It's sad people still think "free speech" means you're allowed to be a piece of shit without repercussion.


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## ChanseyIsTheBest (Sep 6, 2022)

Honestly I don't know how someone could defend Kiwi Farms that site is absolutely wretched it's basically just shit-talking and stalking forum turned up to 110%. Makes 4chan look like idyllic, respectful place in comparison and rarely actually decent stuff comes out of there like game leaks. It's pathetic how Kiwi Farms wants to convince people to be 'brave and free' when their website is equivalent to a gossip rag gone wrong. 

I get how there's a level of implications about the future of the internet especially with what sites will be allowed to be up - no more websites free-for-all APNIC possibly taking its IP away and that precedent e.g. toxic governments taking down bad material about themselves under the guise of taking down hateful websites, but at least in a vacuum its good that KF is down.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 6, 2022)

Kiwi Farms is worse than 4chan and twitter. NTM there security always sucked and was easy to get peoples information from

Hate how they harass trans people all the time, Time for them to go into the trash bin


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## duwen (Sep 6, 2022)

Regardless of any personal opinions about Kiwifarms, this is terrible news with regards internet censorship.


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## elpapadelospollitos (Sep 6, 2022)

duwen said:


> Regardless of any personal opinions about Kiwifarms, this is terrible news with regards internet censorship.


Eh, a person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins, and considering the targeting and harassment to specific individuals, I say nothing of value was lost


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 6, 2022)

Wait, didnt they make Near (higan's developer) kill themselves? if im not wrong? Man, what assholes.


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## linuxares (Sep 6, 2022)

They was back literally the same day.... on another top domain


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## granville (Sep 6, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Wait, didnt they make Near (higan's developer) kill themselves? if im not wrong? Man, what assholes.


Yes. With Near making it crystal clear in some of their final messages that KF were the ones who drove them to do it. It was a very long and drawn out harassment campaign that lasted for years leading up to Near's suicide. And it by no means ended when Near's life ended either. Afterwards, they pivoted to denying that Near was dead and insisted they were still alive and faked suicide for attention. A former staff member in this thread (Minox, assuming they're being serious about it, but a really disgusting thing to say even as a joke) also regurgitated this conspiracy garbage.

KF was purely a blight on society. Truly valueless with nothing other than a negative impact on an already horrible world. Assuming it stays gone and truly dies for good this time, it's collapse is the tiniest glimmer of light on this ugly planet. Until something else pops up in its place...

While this will never happen happen, I would also love to see its members located and held accountable by the legal system as well. At the height of their popularity and most bitter harassment campaigns, there were apparently multiple tens of thousands of active and involved accounts there.

As for the "free speech" handwringing garbage certain people are puking out, even the US' 1st Amendment contains many exceptions due to the sheer insanity of the notion that all people deserve unlimited rights to say anything without consequence. There are laws against harassment, libel/defamation, incitement etc etc of which KF is in clear violation of. Even still, they haven't even received any real government-based retaliation (even though they should), it has only been their hosting companies who have kicked them off their platforms. So trotting out the old "but muh freeze peach" crap is at best ignorant, at worst a self report that you agree with KF's shit. And i've seen at least one other person in this thread that have a history here to indicate they're in the latter category.


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## Marc_LFD (Sep 6, 2022)

Kiwi Farms? Isn't that the website of that weird Sonic extremist?


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## Marc_LFD (Sep 6, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Kiwi Farms is worse than 4chan and twitter. NTM there security always sucked and was easy to get peoples information from
> 
> Hate how they harass trans people all the time, Time for them to go into the trash bin


Chris Chan is/was a trans (I actually had to look Chris up on YouTube since I completely blocked him out of my brain, lol) so they still did that?

Speaking of that person, that's one of the internet's biggest mysteries to never be solved.


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## The Catboy (Sep 6, 2022)

Hope the shit stays dead this time. KF literally provided only abuse for people, especially trans people. Not to mention Null is a shit person, he’s literally a pedophile on top of being neo-nazi


duwen said:


> Regardless of any personal opinions about Kiwifarms, this is terrible news with regards internet censorship.


They are still free to host their site elsewhere, but no one is obligated to give them a platform. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to a platform or freedom from consequence. It also doesn’t mean freedom to hurt others. You are free to swing your fist but the second it touches the tip of my nose, you lose that freedom.


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## ChanseyIsTheBest (Sep 6, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> Chris Chan is/was a trans (I actually had to look Chris up on YouTube since I completely blocked him out of my brain, lol) so they still did that?
> 
> Speaking of that person, that's one of the internet's biggest mysteries to never be solved.


Kiwi Farms started as a forum dedicated to 'documenting' really just gang stalking an individual named Chris WC now Christine WC and she wasn't an individual that wasn't the best person at all putting it lightly just look at the news allegedly raping her mother with dementia - but she didn't deserve all the harassment and stalking which likely made the behavior worse which happened before that incident.

There's around a 60-part documentary and entire wiki on her which is basically the Truman Show on steroids which isn't a good thing. Don't really think there's any mysteries left honestly if you go down the rabbit hole, but honestly its sad in the end - girl really needed a good psych.


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## Valwinz (Sep 6, 2022)

ChanseyIsTheBest said:


> Kiwi Farms started as a forum dedicated to 'documenting' really just gang stalking an individual named Chris WC now Christine WC and she wasn't an individual that wasn't the best person at all putting it lightly just look at the news allegedly raping her mother with dementia - but she didn't deserve all the harassment and stalking which likely made the behavior worse which happened before that incident.
> 
> There's around a 60-part documentary and entire wiki on her which is basically the Truman Show on steroids which isn't a good thing. Don't really think there's any mysteries left honestly if you go down the rabbit hole, but honestly its sad in the end - girl really needed a good psych.


is that the guy that rape his own mother? with the yellow sonic?


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## Ephemeral9 (Sep 6, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> is that the guy that rape his own mother? with the yellow sonic?


Yes, that's CWC.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 6, 2022)

Valwinz said:


> is that the guy that rape his own mother? with the yellow sonic?


Yeah, exactly that person. It's a level of villainy I've never seen before...


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## Minox (Sep 7, 2022)

granville said:


> Yes. With Near making it crystal clear in some of their final messages that KF were the ones who drove them to do it. It was a very long and drawn out harassment campaign that lasted for years leading up to Near's suicide. And it by no means ended when Near's life ended either. Afterwards, they pivoted to denying that Near was dead and insisted they were still alive and faked suicide for attention. A former staff member in this thread (Minox, assuming they're being serious about it, but a really disgusting thing to say even as a joke) also regurgitated this conspiracy garbage.


Sorry, but I do not think that doubt is disgusting behaviour. From what I can tell there is incredibly limited proof that Byuu is gone, and I'm hoping that this was all a way for Byuu to disappear from the public eye.

I do not wish for anyone to take their own life, but I reserve my right to question what I see.


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## JuanBaNaNa (Sep 7, 2022)

Minox said:


> Byuu? Do we have further proof that he is gone other than the "trust me bro" comment?


Nope. But it's rude from you to ask the obvious, so shhhhh!


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## City (Sep 7, 2022)

So, I've seen the """documentaries""" youtubers like to put up about Chris Chan to get that sweet revenue money and I've noticed a big trend of victim blaming, because at some point the trolls tried to "improve his life" and he refused, conveniently ignoring the fact that the guy was harassed for years, got nudes of him leaked, was made performing acts like shoving things up his ass, even going as far as getting girls to fake an interest for him, just to get money. And then, after all this, another troll wanted to meet him again to "help him" but Chris refuses and therefore he deserves everything. Ok then.

A "funny" thing would've been making him continue his comic and that's it. Harassing, forcing to shove things up the ass, blackmailing for money, doxxing someone with clear mental problems is as "funny" as bullying people with down syndrome at school. Cool, you made a disabled kid wear women's clothing. You want a medal?

I'm just surprised he only allegedly fucked his mom and didn't become a school shooter.


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## duwen (Sep 8, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> They are still free to host their site elsewhere, but no one is obligated to give them a platform. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to a platform or freedom from consequence. It also doesn’t mean freedom to hurt others. You are free to swing your fist but the second it touches the tip of my nose, you lose that freedom.


I totally agree... which is why my comment doesn't mention free speech, and instead says "internet censorship".

Yes, KF is a toxic cesspool of bullying and trolling, and most people would (should) rightfully wanted it deleted from existance, but in a truly 'free' internet it has as much right to exist as any other site out there. As soon as a perceived moral stance is taken to erradicate sites deemed objectionable by those weilding the power to pull the plug we set off down a road of an homogenized internet that is controlled by corporations, governments, and religions.

ftr, I'm most definitely not pro-KF, but I am 100% anti-censorship.


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## City (Sep 8, 2022)

duwen said:


> I totally agree... which is why my comment doesn't mention free speech, and instead says "internet censorship".
> 
> Yes, KF is a toxic cesspool of bullying and trolling, and most people would (should) rightfully wanted it deleted from existance, but in a truly 'free' internet it has as much right to exist as any other site out there. As soon as a perceived moral stance is taken to erradicate sites deemed objectionable by those weilding the power to pull the plug we set off down a road of an homogenized internet that is controlled by corporations, governments, and religions.
> 
> ftr, I'm most definitely not pro-KF, but I am 100% anti-censorship.


There are websites as toxic as them with the difference that they contain themselves in their own cesspool. If a country invades another country, it's war. Same on the internet. You can't throw attacks around and then claim free speech when people retailate.


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## duwen (Sep 8, 2022)

City said:


> There are websites as toxic as them with the difference that they contain themselves in their own cesspool. If a country invades another country, it's war. Same on the internet. You can't throw attacks around and then claim free speech when people retailate.


Not quite the same... but if we were to stick with that analogy it would be more appropriate to equate it to terrorism than an invading force.


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## Viri (Sep 8, 2022)

I don't personally use the forum, and hate people who dox others and such, which Twitter is very guilty of. But they'll be back on another domain, if they aren't back already.


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## x65943 (Sep 8, 2022)

KF is back after being dumped by a Russian company

They have a top domain and an onion site (they both load painfully slow)

The owner seems to have gone mad honestly, his telegram channel reads like a conspiracy theorist manifesto


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 8, 2022)

x65943 said:


> KF is back after being dumped by a Russian company
> 
> They have a top domain and an onion site (they both load painfully slow)
> 
> The owner seems to have gone mad honestly, his telegram channel reads like a conspiracy theorist manifesto


I'm pretty sure he IS a conspiracy theorist...


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## The Catboy (Sep 9, 2022)

x65943 said:


> KF is back after being dumped by a Russian company
> 
> They have a top domain and an onion site (they both load painfully slow)
> 
> The owner seems to have gone mad honestly, his telegram channel reads like a conspiracy theorist manifesto


Honestly, his past rambles have always made me worried about his mental health. He often shows signs that borderline possible BPD or severe bipolar disorder. He definitely has the dramatic flare of BPD when it comes to something he’s emotionally invested in.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 9, 2022)

Website is only now accessible on the Tor browser via a tor link. NTM the owner is on the FBI watch list, i think.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 9, 2022)

For anyone thinking Kiwi Farms might not be gone forever, this tweet will be useful. Literally nobody wants to deal with their shit lmao


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 9, 2022)

Stalking sites are cringe, glad to see it dead


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## RAHelllord (Sep 9, 2022)

Hopefully with the site down and gone Null will find the time to actually go see a psych about his various fucking issues instead of being the batshit insane stalker that he larps as on the internet.


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## Marc_LFD (Sep 9, 2022)

Ephemeral9 said:


> Yes, that's CWC.


CWC? Sounds like a wrestling term that existed...



WCW


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## The Catboy (Sep 9, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> For anyone thinking Kiwi Farms might not be gone forever, this tweet will be useful. Literally nobody wants to deal with their shit lmao



I really hope people put pressure on any platform thinking about hosting them. Seriously, the site needs to die and stay dead.


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## Marc_LFD (Sep 9, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> For anyone thinking Kiwi Farms might not be gone forever, this tweet will be useful. Literally nobody wants to deal with their shit lmao



That chick on Twitter has a t-shirt saying "Protect Trans Kids" which just baffled me.

When I was a kid, I wanted to be Goku, the Red Power Ranger, a Dinosaur, or a Spaceman, but that was just it.. "wanted." I remember when I was a kid I used a girl dress which didn't mean anything. Kids do stupid, childish stuff (I know I did a lot as my mom told me I ruined a lot of stuff).

It takes time for humans to adapt to being mature and at such a young age, kids can't make such a decision that changes them radically.


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## The Catboy (Sep 9, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> That chick on Twitter has a t-shirt saying "Protect Trans Kids" which just baffled me.
> 
> When I was a kid, I wanted to be Goku, the Red Power Ranger, a Dinosaur, or a Spaceman, but that was just it.. "wanted." I remember when I was a kid I used a girl dress which didn't mean anything. Kids do stupid, childish stuff (I know I did a lot as my mom told me I ruined a lot of stuff).
> 
> It takes time for humans to adapt to being mature and at such a young age, kids can't make such a decision that changes them radically.


That all doesn’t mean one still shouldn’t respect and protect trans kids. It is not uncommon for kids to experiment with their identity. They should still be respected and protected as they figure themselves out. If a kid does turn out to be trans, then it’s good that they had the space to that figure out. If they don’t turn out to be trans, the same stance should apply. Regardless, there’s no reason to not allow them to figure things out. There are never any radical changes done to kids and no one is pushing for that.
On a personal note, I told everyone that I was both a boy and a girl as a kid. I wasn’t taken seriously nor respected for having that knowledge of myself. Decades later, I found I am intersex and genderfluid. I wish I had the environment to figure that out when I was a kid, instead of spending half my life feeling like shit.
Also, please stop using the “I wanted to be something fake as a kid.” That’s not what being trans is about and it’s far more harmful than I think you might realize. It’s harmful because it breaks the trans experience down to a matter of pretend. Which only continues to be used as an excuse to abuse trans people. I hope you don’t mean anything harmful by that but it’s unfortunately been turned into something harmful.
Edit: added note “trans kids” also includes teens as well. Anyone under 18 is legally considered a child. So even those who are older and have more of an understanding of their identity are affected. This is also about protecting trans treatment further on, as many laws are being pushed to limit and or remove rights from trans people.


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## lokomelo (Sep 9, 2022)

for what I understood back on Near's suicide time, this kiwifarms thing is a online community of people with mental disorder that pray on other people with mental disorder. There was also straight up harassment crimes there, so it is a shame that the website was still accessible til this day.

Anyway, freedom of speech never was about of god tier immunity from everything you want to say, many said that here already


(I don't know if "mental disorder" is a polite term, sorry if its wrong or rude)


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 9, 2022)

lokomelo said:


> for what I understood back on Near's suicide time, this kiwifarms thing is a online community of people with mental disorder that pray on other people with mental disorder. There was also straight up harassment crimes there, so it is a shame that the website was still accessible til this day.
> 
> Anyway, freedom of speech never was about of god tier immunity from everything you want to say, many said that here already
> 
> ...


Yeah, freedom of speech is all fine and dandy until you drive someone to suicide


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## RAHelllord (Sep 10, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> That chick on Twitter has a t-shirt saying "Protect Trans Kids" which just baffled me.
> 
> When I was a kid, I wanted to be Goku, the Red Power Ranger, a Dinosaur, or a Spaceman, but that was just it.. "wanted." I remember when I was a kid I used a girl dress which didn't mean anything. Kids do stupid, childish stuff (I know I did a lot as my mom told me I ruined a lot of stuff).
> 
> It takes time for humans to adapt to being mature and at such a young age, kids can't make such a decision that changes them radically.


I personally know multiple people that have known something wasn't right in that department as literally some of their first childhood memories, and they "didn't grow out of it". They couldn't articulate what was wrong because they didn't know any of the words to describe it, but they absolutely did know they didn't want to do things parents back then would expect of children of that gender to want. Case in point someone having to behave and dress like a girl but absolutely didn't want to, but wasn't allowed to wear pants or have short hair. And what do you know, they're openly trans these days and actually feel better.

Would be cool if less kids would have to go through that or similar shit they went through.

Also puberty blockers are entirely reversible and no kid starts transitioning or surgery until they're adults, stop listening to people that have agenda and actually look at the medical guidelines themselves and listen to medical professionals working in these fields as doctors. Your random ER or outpatient nurse is not a reliable source for topics in a field they don't interact with.


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## Dragon91Nippon (Sep 10, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> That chick on Twitter has a t-shirt saying "Protect Trans Kids" which just baffled me.
> 
> When I was a kid, I wanted to be Goku, the Red Power Ranger, a Dinosaur, or a Spaceman, but that was just it.. "wanted." I remember when I was a kid I used a girl dress which didn't mean anything. Kids do stupid, childish stuff (I know I did a lot as my mom told me I ruined a lot of stuff).
> 
> It takes time for humans to adapt to being mature and at such a young age, kids can't make such a decision that changes them radically.


Seems like there's a big misconception about trans people and why they're trans.

Let's be clear why people of all ages are trans. The reason many people are trans isn't just because of "wanting to be a different gender" in the same way that someone wants to be a fictional character as a child it. It is a deep emotional feeling that that person has in which the body and/or identity they currently have is wrong and deeply uncomfortable for them, in the most extreme way possible. People being (legitimately) trans isn't anything like pretending to be a character, trans people may do that in order to try and make themselves feel better but it is not pretend.

I'm not trans myself but I used to have a close friend growing up who was. Everyone (teachers and family [mine and his]) told him (using his preferred pronouns out of respect) that wanting to be a boy was childish and that he had to grow up and accept that he was a woman. Everyone assured him that this was a phase and if he transitioned he would regret it later, unfortunately they were wrong. Shortly after my friend started going through puberty and had their second period they couldn't take it anymore and took their own life by jumping off the very apartment building me and my family lived in at the time.

I know you and people like you think that trans kids are too young to know and/or should be protected from themselves, yes it's important to make sure that transition isn't a mistake but there is a fine line between protecting someone and trying to force your beliefs about gender on them. If the people in my friend's life weren't such assholes to him he might still be here today.


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## Minox (Sep 10, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Also puberty blockers are entirely reversible and no kid starts transitioning or surgery until they're adults, stop listening to people that have agenda and actually look at the medical guidelines themselves and listen to medical professionals working in these fields as doctors. Your random ER or outpatient nurse is not a reliable source for topics in a field they don't interact with.


So if someone stops using puberty blockers puberty continues from where it was when stopped?


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## RAHelllord (Sep 10, 2022)

Minox said:


> So if someone stops using puberty blockers puberty continues from where it was when stopped?


That is correct, puberty will continue (or begin at all if it was suppressed before it started) as normal and their body goes through all the regular steps as it would have earlier in their life.


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## Dragon91Nippon (Sep 10, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That all doesn’t mean one still shouldn’t respect and protect trans kids. It is not uncommon for kids to experiment with their identity. They should still be respected and protected as they figure themselves out. If a kid does turn out to be trans, then it’s good that they had the space to that figure out. If they don’t turn out to be trans, the same stance should apply. Regardless, there’s no reason to not allow them to figure things out. There are never any radical changes done to kids and no one is pushing for that.


I can sort of get how people would be against the medical aspects of people being trans at an early age but I really don't get why some people are so against the idea of people experimenting with their identity with pronouns or cross-dressing.
Those things are about as harmless as you can get.



The Catboy said:


> On a personal note, I told everyone that I was both a boy and a girl as a kid. I wasn’t taken seriously nor respected for having that knowledge of myself. Decades later, I found I am intersex and genderfluid. I wish I had the environment to figure that out when I was a kid, instead of spending half my life feeling like shit.


I feel ya, when I was a kid I always said I was neither a boy nor or girl and many people did not take me seriously (some of them even tried to be extremely invasive i.e. trying to look up my skirt). Thankfully it did get better over time as people eventually learned to accept me for who I am.



The Catboy said:


> Also, please stop using the “I wanted to be something fake as a kid.” That’s not what being trans is about and it’s far more harmful than I think you might realize. It’s harmful because it breaks the trans experience down to a matter of pretend. Which only continues to be used as an excuse to abuse trans people. I hope you don’t mean anything harmful by that but it’s unfortunately been turned into something harmful.
> Edit: added note “trans kids” also includes teens as well. Anyone under 18 is legally considered a child. So even those who are older and have more of an understanding of their identity are affected. This is also about protecting trans treatment further on, as many laws are being pushed to limit and or remove rights from trans people.


I think the reason people do this is because they want to oppress and force gender onto others but since that's frowned upon these days they try and phrase it as a "think of the children" excuse as a way to get people to accept.


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## Dragon91Nippon (Sep 10, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> That is correct, puberty will continue (or begin at all if it was suppressed before it started) as normal and their body goes through all the regular steps as it would have earlier in their life.


What about stunting growth? I've heard stories about it stunting growth, although I'm not sure how valid those actually are. Is this true or is it just more made up transphobic BS?


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## RAHelllord (Sep 10, 2022)

Dragon91Nippon said:


> What about stunting growth? I've heard stories about it stunting growth, although I'm not sure how valid those actually are. Is this true or is it just more made up transphobic BS?


That growth is part of puberty and will be delayed as such by the puberty blockers as well, but the person will go through that same growth once the blockers are stopped or the transitioning starts. There's also medication to counteract abnormal height stunting in addition to that. The relevant doctors would advise on the best course of action for the individual in question.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 10, 2022)

I mean let's all be honest here, everyone, even the users of KiwiFarms, know that the claims they're outraged about are made up, but they don't need to be true. Keffals didn't groom anyone, and the people who've "come forward" were literally paid $200 in twitter DMs, only for, at best, for them to say "ehhhh, I mean, I could have been?" and that's just the $200 talking.

But for people who use KiwiFarms it doesn't matter if the outrage-provoking allegations are true or not, Keffals is a transwoman, and if there's one thing that upsets incels more than women, it's a woman who's also trans, so naturally all of this bullshit is going to start over her.


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## duwen (Sep 12, 2022)

I'd recommend the recent documentary What Is a Woman?, as it's something of an eyeopener. While it does come across as somewhat biased, there's more than enough truth exposed that anyone on either side of the debate can see that corporate interests are involved in pushing certain perceptions. Big pharma is making a massive killing (no pun intended, but unfortunately true) from pushing transitioning. Suicide rates are apparently higher in those that have transitioned than those that haven't. Puberty blockers are not harmless and reversible - the most popular treatment is the same drug used for the chemical castration of sex offenders.

The influence of the pharmaceutical companies, and attached monetary incentive for them, is likely why the issue is bigger in countries that don't have a government subsidized health service than those that are funded by tax payers.

I am most definitely in favour of adults making whatever choices they want in regards their own bodies, but the way so called medical professionals are steering minors into irreversible biological changes while getting big pharma kick backs is sick and disturbing. 

If we allow children to make such life altering decisions as these then we may just as well have no age of consent or any other age restriction (alcohol, tatoos, etc), because apparently children of any age are responsible enough to make all of their own choices.


Give it a decade and their will likely be massive legal action that makes the Oxycontin controversy pale by comparrison.


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## erikas (Sep 12, 2022)

Kioku_Dreams said:


> It's sad people still think "free speech" means you're allowed to be a piece of shit without repercussion.


That is literally what it means, and if it meant anything less, it would not be free speech. With an arbitrary restriction like "being a piece of shit" you must also give someone the power to decide when someone is being a piece of shit. And you also won't feel how unfair that is until its used against you.


----------



## Jayro (Sep 12, 2022)

What is Kiwi Farms? I've never heard of it until now./


----------



## Jayro (Sep 12, 2022)

erikas said:


> That is literally what it means, and if it meant anything less, it would not be free speech. With an arbitrary restriction like "being a piece of shit" you must also give someone the power to decide when someone is being a piece of shit. And you also won't feel how unfair that is until its used against you.


As long as you're not being a piece of shit, then it shouldn't matter. See how simple that is? Trampling on someone else's bodily autonomy rights because _YOU_ disagree with the morality of it? That's being a piece of shit. Blocking people from getting married based on _YOUR_ religious beliefs? That's being a piece of shit. Banning/burning books for everyone just because _YOU_ don't have the same world views?  *That's being a piece of shit! *See the pattern? It's REALLY easy NOT to be a piece of shit, the bar is literally so low already...


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

Jayro said:


> What is Kiwi Farms? I've never heard of it until now./


4chan's b-board but on turbo


----------



## Jayro (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> 4chan's b-board but on turbo


Oh, eew. Sounds like cancer, let it die off.


----------



## RAHelllord (Sep 12, 2022)

duwen said:


> I'd recommend the recent documentary What Is a Woman?, as it's something of an eyeopener. While it does come across as somewhat biased, there's more than enough truth exposed that anyone on either side of the debate can see that corporate interests are involved in pushing certain perceptions. Big pharma is making a massive killing (no pun intended, but unfortunately true) from pushing transitioning. Suicide rates are apparently higher in those that have transitioned than those that haven't. Puberty blockers are not harmless and reversible - the most popular treatment is the same drug used for the chemical castration of sex offenders.
> 
> The influence of the pharmaceutical companies, and attached monetary incentive for them, is likely why the issue is bigger in countries that don't have a government subsidized health service than those that are funded by tax payers.
> 
> ...


When looking up a documentary maybe don't watch one on a topic created by a far-right pundit that makes money off of being a very political talkshow host.


> AJ Eckert of _Science-Based Medicine_ called the documentary "every bit as much of a science denying propaganda film disguised as a documentary as antivax films like _VAXXED_ or the anti-evolution film _Expelled!_, and such films tend to be potent messaging tools.", concluding that "Walsh clearly did not set out to honestly seek answers to a perplexing question, even if they are complex. Instead, he started with a conclusion and then sought out sources to support that conclusion, no matter how dubious the source, making this film an exercise not in honest truth-seeking but rather motivated reasoning."


Here's an actual deep-dive with citations into why that "documentary" shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/in-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-asks-a-question/

When actual scientists call it bullshit maybe it shouldn't be taken seriously, similarly to how scientists not affiliated with the Sacklers called Oxycontin being prescribed the way it was as anti-ethical bullshit.


----------



## duwen (Sep 12, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> similarly to how scientists not affiliated with the Sacklers called Oxycontin being prescribed the way it was as anti-ethical bullshit.


Isn't that exactly the same as what's happening now with pharmaceuticals linked with transitioning/puberty blockers? Those not getting incentives from the pharma corps are those that are trying to stand up for the ethicacy, while getting labelled as anti-trans (because that's the way the argument works apparently, as it's deemed impossible to question ethics without it being a hate crime).



EDIT.

I just read that 'review' on "Science based medicine" of the documentary I mentioned, and while they raise some valid points about the bias of the documentary they fail to address a lot of the issues discussed beyond just writing the whole thing off as propaganda. They also criticise legitimate documentary techniques as only being used in similar propaganda type documentaries (although a 'science based medicine' site is probably not in their wheelhouse when it comes to understanding film making). On the whole, it just comes across as equally propagandistic just from the opposite side of the argument.

One of the comments on the article stuck out as being representative of my own feelings;



> Please don't conflate people who oppose the affirmative care model (which goes against some basic tenets of medicine) or who feel that there is a problem with the explosion of transgender youths and who have put 2 and 2 together and seen what a staggering business this has become (over 300 gender clinics in the USA since 2007!!) with people wanting to "make you look bad." We believe that in spite of the euphoria you feel, you are ultimately victims of a huge money-making machine. But I do wish you well, truly from my heart, and that your path is not the path of the thousands of detransitioners who realized that their problem was in their heads and no between their legs.  They, too, exist, and they are suffering. Especially when they get rejected by the cultish trans-community.


----------



## City (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Terrible news, yes. We shouldn't allow alphabet people to cancel anything they dislike. I don't agree with doxxing, but letting them pressure companies and actually get away with it is a damn terrible idea. It may be kiwifarms today, but tomorrow it might be your favorite forum or your job because you dared to disagree with a man in a dress. It's not about anyone's rights, harassment or anything like that - it's about politics and control. Keffals is a perfect example, he managed to earn 100k$, get his name out, get a personal army of idiots and divert attention from his grooming ring.


Registered to GBATemp right now and this is your first post.

Hmm.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

Jayro said:


> What is Kiwi Farms? I've never heard of it until now./


Anti-LGBTQ harrasment board that ended up making bsnes dev commit suicide. as well as showed us Chris Chan and some unholy shit as well. AKA 8chan but worse.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> Registered to GBATemp right now and this is your first post.
> 
> Hmm.


Wanted to ask something about 3ds and saw a funny topic. Happens.


----------



## City (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Wanted to ask something about 3ds and saw a funny topic. Happens.


You asked that much later, almost like you thought "oh shit, I need a good excuse".


Hmm.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> You asked that much later, almost like you thought "oh shit, I need a good excuse".
> 
> 
> Hmm.


Boy I literally don't care.


----------



## smf (Sep 12, 2022)

Marc_LFD said:


> It takes time for humans to adapt to being mature and at such a young age, kids can't make such a decision that changes them radically.


And during that time, they should be protected & not attacked (often by those with repressed feelings that they feel jealous that others can express)


----------



## smf (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Terrible news, yes. We shouldn't allow alphabet people to cancel anything they dislike. I don't agree with doxxing, but letting them pressure companies and actually get away with it is a damn terrible idea. It may be kiwifarms today, but tomorrow it might be your favorite forum or your job because you dared to disagree with a man in a dress. It's not about anyone's rights, harassment or anything like that - it's about politics and control. Keffals is a perfect example, he managed to earn 100k$, get his name out, get a personal army of idiots and divert attention from his grooming ring.


I wonder what kiwifarms is diverting our attention from.

You should probably figure out why your fear of "men in dresses" outweighs your desire for common decency.


----------



## City (Sep 12, 2022)

smf said:


> I wonder what kiwifarms is diverting our attention from.
> 
> You should probably figure out why your fear of "men in dresses" outweighs your desire for common decency.


Please don't take the bait.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

smf said:


> You should probably figure out why your fear of "men in dresses" outweighs your desire for common decency.


Who said I fear them? If I did, I would not be speaking up.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

I'm sure a documentary by a guy who calls himself a theocratic fascist won't be disingenuous whatsoever. No ulterior motives there to a guy who thinks religion should operate all parts of a country and be as rigid as possible.

If anyone watches Matt Walsh's shit and walks away from it taking it seriously, you're stupid.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

duwen said:


> somewhat biased


Matt Walsh is an actual Theocratic fascist or just an actual fascist. He made his entire cheer spreading anti-trans propaganda, pushing for anti-trans legislative, and wanting to create a Christian-fascist world where trans people don’t exist. This isn’t hidden either nor speculation. Worth noting, I did pirate the movie and watch it. It’s just politely delivered transphobia, cherry picking, and inaccuracy throughout the movie. If you really want to understand trans people, just talk to them. Personally, my DMs are always open to answering questions and having a conversation. Trans people aren’t what the media makes us out to be, we are just normal people.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Blah, blah, blah. Cried wolf too much, now "nazi" and "fascist" does not mean anything anymore. Actual proofs or get outta here.






martenfur said:


> Just read a couple of your messages, and you are advocating for "protecting trans kids". This is straight up grooming kids into becoming whatever you are, bordering pedophilia. This is not normal. Will never be.


Do me a solid and quite the parts where I did that.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That all doesn’t mean one still shouldn’t respect and protect trans kids. It is not uncommon for kids to experiment with their identity. They should still be respected and protected as they figure themselves out.


Riiiiight here.

As for matt walsh, sure, he may be a unicorn, I guess. Could also be a joke or a larp, like those tarded self-proclaimed blue-haired commies.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Riiiiight here.
> 
> As for matt walsh, sure, he may be a unicorn, I guess. Could also be a joke or a larp, like those tarded self-proclaimed blue-haired commies.


I may have blue hair (Icon joke)..... but im no commie or tard!


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> but im no commie or tard!


Your avatar literally says "head empty", you shall not deceive me!


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Riiiiight here.
> 
> As for matt walsh, sure, he may be a unicorn, I guess. Could also be a joke or a larp, like those tarded self-proclaimed blue-haired commies.


Asking people to respect children as they figure their identity out is grooming? I just thought that’s how you should treat anyone who’s figuring shit out. Explain to me how that’s supposed to be grooming?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Your avatar literally says "head empty", you shall not deceive me!


Thats because my brain has been replaced with a 2 Ryzen 9 7850x with 128 GB of ram and a RTX 4090 TI With a Co-Prossesor found in most High-end androids. So fast i can run Fallout 4 on ultra with over 1000 mods with no lag while i troll!


----------



## Ephemeral9 (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> So fast i can run Fallout 4 on ultra with over 1000 mods with no lag!


Truly a weapon to surpass Metal Gear.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Asking people to respect children as they figure their identity out is grooming? I just thought that’s how you should treat anyone who’s figuring shit out. Explain to me how that’s supposed to be grooming?


We both know how it goes. You immediately assume the kid's trans and do everything to push him to this conclusion. The entire phrase "protect trans kids" immediately assumes the kid's trans. Even if you personally are not biased (you'd be the first), the number of cases where people immediately jump to conclusions is alarming. 

And worse of all, you make this irreversible because transitioning works better if started at a young age and has to be started right away, way before the kid actually grows a brain.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

See the conclusion I've come to is that most transphobes just hold their positions without any thought whatsoever. They start off with nonsense like "waaaah, the left is redefining every word to mean something different!" and then immediate try to redefine grooming, which is the act of an adult psychologically manipulating a minor into being okay with sexual acts or behaviors by normalizing the subject, to mean "respecting that people can question their identity at any age."

It's the same shit that we've heard for decades now. Every marginalized group that's fought for rights has been accused of pedophilia by the unhinged outrage addicts on the far right, be it black people trying to escape slavery and legal inequality, gay people, women who wanted to vote or not be stuck at home (how the fuck they construed that one is beyond me, but no one said that bigots are logical), and so on and so forth.

It's a little strange to hear the same people who go "Y-YOU'RE JUST CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH A NAZI, WHICH DEVALUES ACTUAL NAZISM!" unironically call everyone they're mad at a pedophile, even if they objectively _aren't_ pedophiles. Which, in fact, actually devalues pedophilia and grooming accusations. A lot of police departments for example are getting flooded with psychotic reports from unhinged far righters calling things like LGBTQ+ books at libraries "pedophilia," and when they go and investigate it they just find, you guessed it, no harm whatsoever.

Addendum, surely some perpetually offended coward can explain to us how calling anyone who affirms non-conforming gender identities "pedophiles" and "groomers" is both accurate, and not devaluing of either term.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> We both know how it goes. You immediately assume the kid's trans and do everything to push him to this conclusion. The entire phrase "protect trans kids" immediately assumes the kid's trans. Even if you personally are not biased (you'd be the first), the number of cases where people immediately jump to conclusions is alarming.
> 
> And worse of all, you make this irreversible because transitioning works better if started at a young age and has to be started right away, way before the kid actually grows a brain.


That’s a lot of projection for something I don’t believe in, didn’t say, would never do. Considering you joined today, it’s rather impressive that you’ve come to that conclusion when I’ve made countless posts to the contrary over my past 13 years on the Temp. I am heavily against anyone being pushed into actions that they aren’t happy with, why? Because I am literally someone who was pushed into staying a woman for far too long when I wasn’t happy that way. It’s moronic to think that I would ever do the same to anyone else, regardless of cis or trans. This isn’t some numbers game where I am trying to make more trans people. I literally just want people to be respected when they are working through shit. There’s no hidden message in there, there’s no ulterior motives, and there’s no conclusions. Simply put, you are wrong


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> which is the act of an adult psychologically manipulating a minor into being okay with sexual acts or behaviors by normalizing the subject


And what a surprise, this is exactly what is being done! You really think pushing kids to do hrt is not a fetish? Of course, not every single tim is doing this, just like in every group.



LainaGabranth said:


> gay people


...of which a significantly higher percentage are, in fact, sex offenders. There are studies out there, they are easy enough to google.




LainaGabranth said:


> "Y-YOU'RE JUST CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH A NAZI, WHICH DEVALUES ACTUAL NAZISM!"


Which is again, exactly what is happening. The word "nazi" is being thrown around so much and so frequently, it became meaningless. Go on twitter and wordsearch "nazi". You'll see everything from blm sceptics to people who didn't like the new LOTR series. You might not notice it, because you might genuinely think everybody who disagrees with you is far right or a nazi, so I suggest actually reading who nazis were and why someone being racist or anti-trans does not immediately equal nazi.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> That’s a lot of projection for something I don’t believe in, didn’t say, would never do. Considering you joined today, it’s rather impressive that you’ve come to that conclusion when I’ve made countless posts to the contrary over my past 13 years on the Temp. I am heavily against anyone being pushed into actions that they aren’t happy with, why? Because I am literally someone who was pushed into staying a woman for far too long when I wasn’t happy that way. It’s moronic to think that I would ever do the same to anyone else, regardless of cis or trans. This isn’t some numbers game where I am trying to make more trans people. I literally just want people to be respected when they are working through shit. There’s no hidden message in there, there’s no ulterior motives, and there’s no conclusions. Simply put, you are wrong


Huh, so you support being free to be yourself and not be put into a box (AKA your this and only this). Honestly i agree with you on that. Oh well, haters going to hate on everyone so try to be happy with yourself!


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> And what a surprise, this is exactly what is being done! You really think pushing kids to do hrt is not a fetish? Of course, not every single tim is doing this, just like in every group.


Are you retarded? Any act can be considered a fetish. Eating is a fetish to some people. Walking is a fetish to some people. You're gonna need a far better argument than "a thousandth of a percent of people probably think this is a fetish, so it's inherently sexual." 


martenfur said:


> ...of which a significantly higher percentage are, in fact, sex offenders. There are studies out there, they are easy enough to google.


Yeah, the ones that also say white hetero couples are the highest percentage. That's kinda strange.


martenfur said:


> Which is again, exactly what is happening. The word "nazi" is being thrown around so much and so frequently, it became meaningless.


He says, implying that any medical treatment for anyone is "fetishistic." Sorry, but pivoting isn't something that works on this forum fortunately. You'll have to try to stay on topic if you don't wanna be laughed at.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> And what a surprise, this is exactly what is being done! You really think pushing kids to do hrt is not a fetish? Of course, not every single tim is doing this, just like in every group.
> 
> ...of which a significantly higher percentage are, in fact, sex offenders. There are studies out there, they are easy enough to google.


Sources



sombrerosonic said:


> Huh, so you support being free to be yourself and not be put into a box (AKA your this and only this). Honestly i agree with you on that. Oh well, haters going to hate on everyone so try to be happy with yourself!


That is precisely what I believe and advocate for. Actual freedom of expression and respect for that freedom.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Huh, so you support being free to be yourself and not be put into a box (AKA your this and only this). Honestly i agree with you on that. Oh well, haters going to hate on everyone so try to be happy with yourself!


Self actualization is the strongest form of power and it makes many people INCREDIBLY jealous.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> It’s moronic to think that I would ever do the same to anyone else, regardless of cis or trans.


It... actually makes it more likely. Victims of grooming have a higher chance of becoming groomers, I witnessed one such case myself with someone I knew. You cannot argue about such things logically, this is not how it works.



The Catboy said:


> Simply put, you are wrong


If you, personally, don't groom anyone, great, you'll be the first tim with actual morals that I've met. But again, "trans kids" just screams "grooming". It's just what it is. There are no trans kids. There is a mental illness that needs to be diagnosed and treated accordingly. No need to ruin people's lives.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

I still wanna know where all these psychotic misinformation weirdos are coming from and why they choose a piracy forum of all places to post it on.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Self actualization is the strongest form of power and it makes many people INCREDIBLY jealous.


Now that's just delusional. Like, sorry, but noone's jealous, all those fictional genders, pronouns just look like a poor, lazy way to feel special without actually doing anything to _become _special. There are tons of other ways of self-expression, and none of them require rejecting the real world.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Now that's just delusional. Like, sorry, but noone's jealous, all those fictional genders, pronouns just look like a poor, lazy way to feel special without actually doing anything to _become _special. There are tons of other ways of self-expression, and none of them require rejecting the real world.


No need to reply with such anger if you aren't jealous :^)


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> It... actually makes it more likely. Victims of grooming have a higher chance of becoming groomers, I witnessed one such case myself with someone I knew. You cannot argue about such things logically, this is not how it works.
> 
> 
> If you, personally, don't groom anyone, great, you'll be the first tim with actual morals that I've met. But again, "trans kids" just screams "grooming". It's just what it is. There are no trans kids. There is a mental illness that needs to be diagnosed and treated accordingly. No need to ruin people's lives.


One small problem, trans people aren’t grooming kids. Your entire argument is just nonsense from the start with no evidence or basis in reality. If I am wrong, provide sources to back your belief of trans people grooming kids.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> I still wanna know where all these psychotic misinformation weirdos are coming from and why they choose a piracy forum of all places to post it on.


They got banned from twitter, dont have there own platform and still want a platform


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> They got banned from twitter and still want a platform


Yeah that'd check out. Twitter's actually pretty hard to get banned on unless you're posting objectively insane shit, or you get reported for dropping slurs.


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> One small problem, trans people aren’t grooming kids.




Drag Queen Storytime

Keffals Catboy Ranch


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

Ah, I can see why this guy is defending KiwiFarms now, he's a big fan of their misinformation and harassment.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Drag Queen Storytime
> 
> Keffals Catboy Ranch



Lgbt+ existing isn’t grooming, I am sorry you are too much of a piece of shit to realize that. I don’t know who Kaffals is and I literally don’t care. I am sorry your stupid doxxing forum died, get an actual personality


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Lgbt+ existing isn’t grooming, I am sorry you are too much of a piece of shit to realize that. I don’t know who Kaffals is and I literally don’t care. I am sorry your stupid doxxing forum died, get an actual personality


Why are you so angry all of sudden? Did I struck a nerve?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Lgbt+ existing isn’t grooming, I am sorry you are too much of a piece of shit to realize that. I don’t know who Kaffals is and I literally don’t care. I am sorry your stupid doxxing forum died, get an actual personality


LMAO FOR REAL
These people are literally all the same, just being mad about trans people. They'll die off in time and target some other minority group in the future when it appears.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

How long untill a ban? Let's find out


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> just being mad about trans people.


It's not about people being tims. It's simply about rejecting reality and pulling everybody along with it. Like you do.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> It's not about people being tims. It's simply about rejecting reality and pulling everybody along with it. Like you do.


You can tell yourself that, but we all know the truth ;^)c


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> we all know the truth


At least something we can agree on.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> At least something we can agree on.


Well I'm glad you're at least open about your insecurity. Still the least insecure KiwiFarms fan.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Why are you so angry all of sudden? Did I struck a nerve?


I am not angry, lol. Mildly annoyed by how stupid you are but not angry. You still haven't provided a source for your claims, why is that?


----------



## martenfur (Sep 12, 2022)

>sees the source
>gets angry at reality
>pretends it does not exist

Every single time. :^)


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> >sees the source
> >gets angry at reality
> >pretends it does not exist
> 
> Every single time. :^)


Your coping would be less embarrassing if you weren't running from your posts being debunked :^)c

Back to reddit you go!


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> >sees the source
> >gets angry at reality
> >pretends it does not exist
> 
> Every single time. :^)


What source did you post? Anything from any legit sources beyond your weird projections?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> What source did you post? Anything from any legit sources beyond your weird projections?


Transphobes do not have any sources or foundations for their positions, just feelings, and those feelings are insecurity.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Drag Queen Storytime
> 
> Keffals Catboy Ranch



This isn't a source. You claimed there were sources on Google, where are they?


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

Transphobes are weak tbh


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

Now be have


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Transphobes are weak tbh


Yeah, all bullshit, no facts. Turns out the real world outside of their weird stalking forum often requires actual sources


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Now be have


allright, ill lower the shitpost's


----------



## kevin corms (Sep 12, 2022)

Its just a platform, wonder what is really going on here. If someone is breaking some law, have the police deal with it. Thats how any other platform works.


----------



## erikas (Sep 12, 2022)

Jayro said:


> As long as you're not being a piece of shit, then it shouldn't matter. See how simple that is? Trampling on someone else's bodily autonomy rights because _YOU_ disagree with the morality of it? That's being a piece of shit. Blocking people from getting married based on _YOUR_ religious beliefs? That's being a piece of shit. Banning/burning books for everyone just because _YOU_ don't have the same world views?  *That's being a piece of shit! *See the pattern? It's REALLY easy NOT to be a piece of shit, the bar is literally so low already...


Someone who loves to censor, deplatform and ruin the lives of people they disagree with is a piece of shit in my opinion. I can also rephrase some of what you said in a way that makes you look way worse. The others i can apply back to you without changing any of the wording. And whoever is in power will be doing the censoring. 
Its a really good metaphor, enabling any kind of censorship is creating a ring of power, and you would be very stupid to assume that your side will always be the one holding it. Because if it ever ends up in the hands of your enemies, they will not hesitate to use it against you, because they know you did not hesitate to use it against them. Maybe when every single person you like to listen to is scrubbed from the internet, when every space where you could talk is taken offline, and you cannot express so much as the softest opinion or get banned, not because you're wrong, but because you're on the wrong side, maybe then you will understand just how wrong you were. And when that inevitably happens, you will get no pity from me.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

kevin corms said:


> Its just a platform, wonder what is really going on here. If someone is breaking some law, have the police deal with it. Thats how any other platform works.


The Catboy & LainaGabranth VS martenfur is a cutdown way to say whats going on


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

kevin corms said:


> Its just a platform, wonder what is really going on here. If someone is breaking some law, have the police deal with it. Thats how any other platform works.


Just a kiwifarm loser who found his way into the Temp


----------



## smf (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> Who said I fear them? If I did, I would not be speaking up.



If you weren't scared of them, you wouldn't say anything.


----------



## smf (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> We both know how it goes. You immediately assume the kid's trans and do everything to push him to this conclusion.


I think you're the only person that "knows" how it goes.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> spicy.... but i was born poor........


Ironic considering I was born extremely poor. In fact, I started following the Temp to learn how to hack and repair my stuff in order to extend the life of them and cut back on what little spending I was doing. I’ve always been rather pale because of an immune disorder. I used to not be so pale but that’s kind of just how it is when your immune system isn’t a fan of itself.



smf said:


> I think you're the only person that "knows" how it goes.


That’s normally how it goes. Make shit up, get mad about it, project it on others, and expect them to play along


----------



## smf (Sep 12, 2022)

martenfur said:


> And what a surprise, this is exactly what is being done! You really think pushing kids to do hrt is not a fetish?


Imagining the sexuality/gender of children and hoping they remain straight/cis is a fetish.


----------



## erikas (Sep 12, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> When looking up a documentary maybe don't watch one on a topic created by a far-right pundit that makes money off of being a very political talkshow host.
> 
> Here's an actual deep-dive with citations into why that "documentary" shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/in-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-asks-a-question/
> 
> When actual scientists call it bullshit maybe it shouldn't be taken seriously, similarly to how scientists not affiliated with the Sacklers called Oxycontin being prescribed the way it was as anti-ethical bullshit.


I notice how the article rambles on and on but in the end, doesn't actually answer the question. Also what makes science science, isn't that a person with a PhD wrote it, its that you can test and verify the results yourself. What you cited is an opinion piece, there's nothing testable there whatsoever.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

He says, defending a "documentary" that does not make scientifically backed assertions


----------



## City (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> How long untill a ban? Let's find out


The troll account was reported multiple times but nobody gives a shit. Meanwhile this thread about kiwifarms got derailed once again by the usual troll we have + the newcomer. This place is doomed under a mountain of shitposting.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> The troll account was reported multiple times but nobody gives a shit. Meanwhile this thread about kiwifarms got derailed once again by the usual troll we have + the newcomer. This place is doomed under a mountain of shitposting.


Would be nice if the staff actually moderated this section, but now it’s just a worse EOF because at least EOF has staff presences in it


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> The troll account was reported multiple times but nobody gives a shit. Meanwhile this thread about kiwifarms got derailed once again by the usual troll we have + the newcomer. This place is doomed under a mountain of shitposting.


I have done literally nothing wrong


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> The troll account was reported multiple times but nobody gives a shit. Meanwhile this thread about kiwifarms got derailed once again by the usual troll we have + the newcomer. This place is doomed under a mountain of shitposting.


This is the political section. It's always doomed to be a shitposting place


----------



## City (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> This is the political section. It's always doomed to be a shitposting place


So the plan is to just let trolls derail threads until no one wants to bother with the board anymore or?


----------



## Ephemeral9 (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Would be nice if the staff actually moderated this section, but now it’s just a worse EOF because at least EOF has staff presences in it


I thought it was supposed to be moderated. At least that's what the sticky says.



LainaGabranth said:


> I have done literally nothing wrong


You have infuriated people, though that's pretty much your modus operandi. You give due warning about that however, so I can't fault you.


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> So the plan is to just let trolls derail threads until no one wants to bother with the board anymore or?


I'm generally against this forum, but no. The so said trolls are actually talking about one of the biggest thing with Kiwifarms. Hating on Transsexuals


----------



## Jayro (Sep 12, 2022)

erikas said:


> Someone who loves to censor, deplatform and ruin the lives of people they disagree with is a piece of shit in my opinion. I can also rephrase some of what you said in a way that makes you look way worse. The others i can apply back to you without changing any of the wording. And whoever is in power will be doing the censoring.
> Its a really good metaphor, enabling any kind of censorship is creating a ring of power, and you would be very stupid to assume that your side will always be the one holding it. Because if it ever ends up in the hands of your enemies, they will not hesitate to use it against you, because they know you did not hesitate to use it against them. Maybe when every single person you like to listen to is scrubbed from the internet, when every space where you could talk is taken offline, and you cannot express so much as the softest opinion or get banned, not because you're wrong, but because you're on the wrong side, maybe then you will understand just how wrong you were. And when that inevitably happens, you will get no pity from me.


Feels good not being on the wrong side of history. I'll choose humanity and kindness over fascism and being a piece of shit any day of the week


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> I'm generally against this forum, but no. The so said trolls are actually talking about one of the biggest thing with Kiwifarms. Hating on Transsexuals


I normally don’t correct people but transsexual is kind of a dated term and not used these days. Use it if you want but just be aware that you might get some flack.

That being said, it’s not so much this thread that’s the problem, it’s the entire section. The section is slowly becoming impossible for anyone who isn’t a conspiracy theorist, anti-lgbt+/transphobic, anti-vaxxor, obvious racists, and generally the worst of the worst. This thread literally has kiwifarms refugees making their home in it. The lack of moderation has made this the worst section on the Temp and generally the most toxic section. It’s kind of impressive just how poorly run this section is and how the staff expect to be respected when they are literally letting this happen.


Ephemeral9 said:


> I thought it was supposed to be moderated. At least that's what the sticky says.


Staff claim to moderate it, but yet threads will literally go into the hundreds of pages with absolute nonsense before literally everyone does anything, which is always just locking the thread. That bare minimum of moderation has made this place a complete cesspool


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I normally don’t correct people but transsexual is kind of a dated term and not used these days. Use it if you want but just be aware that you might get some flack.


Oh what are you suppose to call it now days?


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Oh what are you suppose to call it now days?


Edit: oh the term, it’s just transgender or trans


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Well I would call it staff negligence but for a title, literally just shithole. This section is a shithole and provides nothing of value to the temp. Even the EOF provides the occasional laugh or meme threads. This section only provides more reasons for people to avoid the Temp.


Nono trans people.I thought it was the neutral term.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> Nono trans people.I thought it was the neutral term.


Yeah, I realized that after reading the post again.
Trans or transgender is what is commonly used. Transsexual has somewhat been moved over to referring to people who’ve undergone surgeries but even then it’s been hotly debated and kind of pushed away. Most people find it to be a rather abrasive term that comes from a very different era.


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Yeah, I realized that after reading the post again.
> Trans or transgender is what is commonly used. Transsexual has somewhat been moved over to referring to people who’ve undergone surgeries but even then it’s been hotly debated and kind of pushed away. Most people find it to be a rather abrasive term that comes from a very different era.


oh I see! TIL, well then! Now I know. Thank you!


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

linuxares said:


> oh I see! TIL, well then I know. Thank you!


Glad I could help. Sorry if I got a little emotional there, brain isn’t thrilled by life right now.


----------



## linuxares (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Glad I could help. Sorry if I got a little emotional there, brain isn’t thrilled by life right now.


It's fine


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

Strange how when a woman is loud and fights against oppression she's considered a "notorious troll who derails everything" but the people making these claims are silent about the white nationalist and transphobic talking points she replies to...


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Strange how when a woman is loud and fights against oppression she's considered a "notorious troll who derails everything" but the people making these claims are silent about the white nationalist and transphobic talking points she replies to...


I don’t know if I missed anything but I think @City  was referring to someone else. Talking to him right now and he hasn’t brought you up. He definitely brought up the member that I think he’s talking about. He’s a bit of a rough character but he’s a good guy.


----------



## smf (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Transsexual has somewhat been moved over to referring to people who’ve undergone surgeries but even then it’s been hotly debated and kind of pushed away. Most people find it to be a rather abrasive term that comes from a very different era.


Trans seems to be the common term these days. Trans gender is more inclusive. I think some trans don't identify with the term trans sexual, because it makes out that sexuality is the only important thing.


----------



## City (Sep 12, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I don’t know if I missed anything but I think @City  was referring to someone else. Talking to him right now and he hasn’t brought you up. He definitely brought up the member that I think he’s talking about. It’s a bit of a rough character but he’s a good guy.


Love you too <3


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

smf said:


> I thought it was trans gender because it's about changing gender, not sexuality.


That’s how some people put it. Some people all noted that it didn’t make sense because being trans isn’t a sexuality, thus *sexual makes no sense. Some also argue that it unintentionally plays into the “pervert” stereotype by saying it’s sexual or a sexuality. Really seems to have a lot of differing reasons that basically boils down to, it’s just not a cool term anymore


----------



## Lumstar (Sep 12, 2022)

I'll just say that I believe services like web hosts and domain registrars, reserve the choice to ditch abusive or irresponsible clients.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 12, 2022)

City said:


> Love you too <3


Love ya too, Daddy~


----------



## fdyyt (Sep 12, 2022)

granville said:


> Yes. With Near making it crystal clear in some of their final messages that KF were the ones who drove them to do it. It was a very long and drawn out harassment campaign that lasted for years leading up to Near's suicide. And it by no means ended when Near's life ended either. Afterwards, they pivoted to denying that Near was dead and insisted they were still alive and faked suicide for attention. A former staff member in this thread (Minox, assuming they're being serious about it, but a really disgusting thing to say even as a joke) also regurgitated this conspiracy garbage.
> 
> KF was purely a blight on society. Truly valueless with nothing other than a negative impact on an already horrible world. Assuming it stays gone and truly dies for good this time, it's collapse is the tiniest glimmer of light on this ugly planet. Until something else pops up in its place...
> 
> ...


But near might never fully get justice because their demise was the work of a lot of anonymous perpetrators who were probably jealous of their work and preyed on their eccentric nature. How could we prevent the taking of their own life?


----------



## fdyyt (Sep 12, 2022)

Jayro said:


> As long as you're not being a piece of shit, then it shouldn't matter. See how simple that is? Trampling on someone else's bodily autonomy rights because _YOU_ disagree with the morality of it? That's being a piece of shit. Blocking people from getting married based on _YOUR_ religious beliefs? That's being a piece of shit. Banning/burning books for everyone just because _YOU_ don't have the same world views?  *That's being a piece of shit! *See the pattern? It's REALLY easy NOT to be a piece of shit, the bar is literally so low already...


That is basically what aboriginal missionaries are all about.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> I'll just say that I believe services like web hosts and domain registrars, reserve the choice to ditch abusive or irresponsible clients.


Most rational people think this but some weird people think otherwise, that no private host should be allowed to decide what people do with their platform, even if they're the one selling it. Weird shit tbh.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 12, 2022)

Lumstar said:


> I'll just say that I believe services like web hosts and domain registrars, reserve the choice to ditch abusive or irresponsible clients.


100 percent.  they do it all the time with commerce issues, why not issues of harassment and potential harm?

It's like someone else said earlier about freedom of speech.  these places are free to say whatever the hell they want, but they need to face the consequences of what they've said.  (a kinder way of saying "fuck around and find out")

Cloudflare, being a private company (I think) has all the right in the world to pull their services from a website.  Hosting companies do this stuff all the time.  If they can do it for scam call centers, and malicious websites,  why can't they reserve the right to pull a website known to cause harm?


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 12, 2022)

Sorry if i was being a prick earlier. Hope you all can forgive me for it.


----------



## Cris1997XX (Sep 12, 2022)

Holy fucking shit, this thread really blew up today. All I have to say is: The stupid anti-vax stuff made me laugh my ass off, thanks


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 12, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Sorry if i was being a prick earlier. Hope you all can forgive me for it.


If it's any consolation, I like you, but given my reputation and goals it may not be the highest value of remarks!


----------



## JJ1013 (Sep 12, 2022)

As a person with ASD, I believe that Kiwi Farms' death proves God exists.

Null can go rot in prison and burn in Hell. May Near rest in peace.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 13, 2022)

JJ1013 said:


> As a person with ASD, I believe that Kiwi Farms' death proves God exists.
> 
> Null can go rot in prison and burn in Hell. May Near rest in peace.


If the accusations are true, he's most likely a pedo and has a history of promoting CP, which is why he was banned from 8Chan. Now, these are just accusations but considering his character, I wouldn't doubt they are true


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> If the accusations are true, he's most likely a pedo and has a history of promoting CP, which is why he was banned from 8Chan. Now, these are just accusations but considering his character, I wouldn't doubt they are true


See the really funny thing is Null would say shit like that, from my understanding to fuck with people. Now he gets to learn that repeatedly stating you are a pedophile to "own the libs," hilariously, has consequences.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> See the really funny thing is Null would say shit like that, from my understanding to fuck with people. Now he gets to learn that repeatedly stating you are a pedophile to "own the libs," hilariously, has consequences.


If someone calls themselves a pedo and promotes CP, then I am going to take their word for it. They can claim it's a joke but really, I am just going to trust that it's not a joke. This reminds me of the time when RyanRocks called me a pedo and now he's in jail with am additional charge of CP being smacked onto his record.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> If someone calls themselves a pedo and promotes CP, then I am going to take their word for it. They can claim it's a joke but really, I am just going to trust that it's not a joke. This reminds me of the time when RyanRocks called me a pedo and now he's in jail with am additional charge of CP being smacked onto his record.


Exactly. It's the same as when people like Sargon of Akkad would "joke" about being racists. Surprise! They're literal racists. Same with Nick Fuentes, BakedAlaska, and especially weirdos like Crowder, not to mention Crowder's very obvious trans fetish.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Exactly. It's the same as when people like Sargon of Akkad would "joke" about being racists. Surprise! They're literal racists. Same with Nick Fuentes, BakedAlaska, and especially weirdos like Crowder, not to mention Crowder's very obvious trans fetish.


Crowder seriously needs to get on E. The obvious egg vibes are painful to watch and I wish Crowder would stop being a grifter for 5 minutes to realize that.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 13, 2022)

JJ1013 said:


> As a person with ASD, I believe that Kiwi Farms' death proves God exists.
> 
> Null can go rot in prison and burn in Hell. May Near rest in peace.


somehow the link to kiwi farms still works on there


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Crowder seriously needs to get on E. The obvious egg vibes are painful to watch and I wish Crowder would stop being a grifter for 5 minutes to realize that.


For fucking real, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it. Dude is straight up the most repressed trans person I've seen.


----------



## The Catboy (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> For fucking real, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it. Dude is straight up the most repressed trans person I've seen.


Considering he “ironically” crossdresses on more than one occasion, really makes ya think


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

I don't feel like shutting down outlets for sharing thought ever solves the actual issue.  Don't get me wrong, the people that used Kiwifarms are absolute garbage, but if anyone thinks that removing their forum solves the problem in anyway is a fool.  They'll quickly regroup elsewhere on an even more shady corner of the web, and if that gets shut down, they'll pop up somewhere else.  It's practically a guarantee. Now granted, I don't have a good solution to the problem that is dealing with these people and their footprint that they leave online, their probably isn't a (ethically) good answer to the problem, but shutting down a site like kiwifarms is only an illusion of a victory in regard to shaking the world of such awful toxicity.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> Considering he “ironically” crossdresses on more than one occasion, really makes ya think


I need to dig em up but there were some extremely funny allegations from someone who worked under him, and she said that on top of being really creepy around women on the set, the guy would constantly dress up as a woman even off camera as a """"joke"""" and do all kinds of weird stuff. I bet you straight up that if he isn't an egg he is at a minimum a drag queen on the side, because no one spends that much time crying about trans people while also dressing like a woman and shit.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Don't get me wrong, the people that used Kiwifarms are absolute garbage, but if anyone thinks that removing their forum solves the problem in anyway is a fool.


This is objectively wrong because when 8chan was killed off, even though 8kun was made it's numbers are a _fraction_ of what they used to be on 8chan, and I would know because I used to be an avid 8chan user. Even had a board there. 

The point isn't to snuff it out, it's to significantly dampen it's reach. Even now, the site struggles to maintain a userbase (with many of the dipshits on their Telegram chats getting the site in even more trouble because they're constantly fedposting. Surprisingly, stalkers have zero opsec skills whatsoever lmao) so I think it's a bit weird to try to say this isn't the solution. Making it more difficult for harassers to organize is always a good thing.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> This is objectively wrong because when 8chan was killed off, even though 8kun was made it's numbers are a _fraction_ of what they used to be on 8chan, and I would know because I used to be an avid 8chan user. Even had a board there.
> 
> The point isn't to snuff it out, it's to significantly dampen it's reach. Even now, the site struggles to maintain a userbase (with many of the dipshits on their Telegram chats getting the site in even more trouble because they're constantly fedposting. Surprisingly, stalkers have zero opsec skills whatsoever lmao) so I think it's a bit weird to try to say this isn't the solution. Making it more difficult for harassers to organize is always a good thing.


Give it time, you cut off the head and it just grows back in elsewhere, though it doesn't happen over night.  You can't terminate thoughts by removing outlets, and removing free speech of course isn't the answer either.  Again, this is an illusion of victory, which frankly could be problematic in how we now don't necessarily know where to so readily track everyone that was on that site as we may not know everywhere that they've been regrouping in the time since, we may know one outlet or two, but they could have others hidden much deeper.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Give it time, you cut off the head and it just grows back in elsewhere.  You can't terminate thoughts by removing outlets, and removing free speech of course isn't the answer either.  Again, this is an illusion of victory, which frankly could be problematic in how we now don't necessarily know where to so readily track everyone that was on that site as we may not know everywhere that they've been regrouping in the time since, we may know one outlet or two, but they could have others hidden much deeper.


Dude, no one is saying they're "terminating thoughts," and this is not a "free speech" issue. This was a site that was literally created for no other purpose than to gangstalk a webcomic artist and coordinate plans to harass them, with many people on it brainstorming the best ways to antagonize this person. They were doxxed, their accounts on numerous sites and platforms were hacked and stolen, and just recently in the past 5 years were manipulated into giving money to some guy and his group of friends, all using information that has been documented and extensively sourced for over 10 years on *one person.*

This is not a free speech issue, and there is no way to make it such. It is objectively a matter of targeted harassment. If you are under the impression that the TOS that KiwiFarms AGREED TO when they paid them for services being enforced in any capacity is in any way antithetical to free speech as a concept, you do not understand neither the private market, nor free speech as concepts.


----------



## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

Phew, goddamn...ya know, sometimes I'm really glad I chose to hide Laina's messages. This is one of those times


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

Wait, hold up, I missed this part too.


MikaDubbz said:


> which frankly could be problematic in how we now don't necessarily know where to so readily track everyone that was on that site as we may not know everywhere that they've been regrouping in the time since, we may know one outlet or two, but they could have others hidden much deeper.


YES! THAT IS LITERALLY THE POINT!

If *WE*, normal users are going to have trouble finding the new sites, you can sure as shit bet anyone else they're trying to reach out to will as well. Again, the numbers speak for themselves. Log onto any kiwifarms alternative URL and compare the users online now to any screenshot from the past 2 weeks and you will see the exponential nosedive in users. It, objectively, is making a difference and will continue to do so. Now that the site is in the public eye of network security professionals and journalists, legal consequences for the undeniably illegal activities engaged in, encouraged, and organized on this site will be easier to sus out as well.

it is not that free speech cannot exist if nazi websites can't, y'know, be nazis. It's that free speech cannot exist so long as there are gathering grounds for people to organize and suppress your speech just for being anything other than a white cis dude.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Dude, no one is saying they're "terminating thoughts," and this is not a "free speech" issue. This was a site that was literally created for no other purpose than to gangstalk a webcomic artist and coordinate plans to harass them, with many people on it brainstorming the best ways to antagonize this person. They were doxxed, their accounts on numerous sites and platforms were hacked and stolen, and just recently in the past 5 years were manipulated into giving money to some guy and his group of friends, all using information that has been documented and extensively sourced for over 10 years on *one person.*
> 
> This is not a free speech issue, and there is no way to make it such. It is objectively a matter of targeted harassment. If you are under the impression that the TOS that KiwiFarms AGREED TO when they paid them for services being enforced in any capacity is in any way antithetical to free speech as a concept, you do not understand neither the private market, nor free speech as concepts.


Simply put, you can't stop it, you can pause it, but it's not going to be the end solution, it just isn't.  It's like trying to stop school shootings after that can of worms was opened, and not strict enough gun laws were ever put in place in the country to combat it. I recall sites where infamous school shooters posted on, getting shut down in the time since.  Guess what didn't stop when that happened?  School shootings.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Phew, goddamn...ya know, sometimes I'm really glad I chose to hide Laina's messages. This is one of those times


I can't help having the best posts on the entire forum


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Simply put, you can't stop it, you can pause it, but it's not going to be the end solution, it just isn't.  It's like trying to stop school shootings after that can of worms was opened, and not strict enough gun laws were ever put in place in the country to combat it. I recall sites where infamous school shooters posted on, getting shut down in the time since.  Guess what didn't stop when that happened?  School shootings.


You're right! Good point. You can't stop all blood loss the instant you bandage a wound, so you should just let people bleed out and never take action. Genius argument.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> You're right! Good point. You can't stop all blood loss the instant you bandage a wound, so you should just let people bleed out and never take action. Genius argument.


I guess you missed the part where I said, "Now granted, I don't have a good solution to the problem that is dealing with these people and their footprint that they leave online, their probably isn't a (ethically) good answer to the problem."


----------



## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Simply put, you can't stop it, you can pause it, but it's not going to be the end solution, it just isn't.  It's like trying to stop school shootings after that can of worms was opened, and not strict enough gun laws were ever put in place in the country to combat it. I recall sites where infamous school shooters posted on, getting shut down in the time since.  Guess what didn't stop when that happened?  School shootings.


Just because the second amendment is a whole fucking mess in and of itself


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I guess you missed the part where I said, "Now granted, I don't have a good solution to the problem that is dealing with these people and their footprint that they leave online, their probably isn't a (ethically) good answer to the problem."


I didn't bother replying to it because it's basically a useless part of an even more useless "criticism" of the movement and actions of the DropKiwifarms group.


----------



## leejaclane (Sep 13, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> somehow the link to kiwi farms still works on there


Probably because VanwaTech now provides CDN services to KF. The same company serves The Daily Stormer and 8chan. Not a lot can be done to put pressure on them, since VanwaTech is ideologically aligned with them.

Also can I just say, I find it very gross that some would suggest someone as incredibly bigoted and transphobic as Crowder is actually trans himself. Besides just the fact that speculating on someone's gender identity is invasive regardless of whether you're trans or not, it feels no different to me than when people suggest everyone who hates gay people is secretly gay themselves. There's a long tradition of comedians doing drag as a joke. Even if he likes wearing "women's" clothing, that doesn't make him trans. I think the much likelier thing to consider is that he has anxieties and shame about being attracted to trans women; I wouldn't be surprised if he consumes a lot of trans porn. Even that speculation feels unproductive and unfounded though, when there are plenty of real criticisms we can make instead.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Just because the second amendment is a whole fucking mess in and of itself


Oh, completely agree.  And stalking laws are a mess too.  None of this shit will ever get properly solved just by shutting down some websites.  It's a nice feel good moment when you see a story like this, but when you recognize that the hate will still run strong and the awful shit these people do will continue to happen, it kinda makes you recognize how foolish celebrating anything like this really is.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

leejaclane said:


> Also can I just say, I find it very gross that some would suggest someone as incredibly bigoted and transphobic as Crowder is actually trans himself. Besides just the fact that speculating on someone's gender identity is invasive regardless of whether you're trans or not, it feels no different to me than when people suggest everyone who hates gay people is secretly gay themselves. There's a long tradition of comedians doing drag as a joke. Even if he likes wearing "women's" clothing, that doesn't make him trans. I think the much likelier thing to consider is that he has anxieties and shame about being attracted to trans women; I wouldn't be surprised if he consumes a lot of trans porn. Even that speculation feels unproductive and unfounded though, when there are plenty of real criticisms we can make instead.


oh no  someone is not making extremely productive and scientifically calculated criticisms of an eggy weirdo  a tragedy has fallen mankind


----------



## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Oh, completely agree.  And stalking laws are a mess too.  None of this shit will ever get properly solved just by shutting down some websites.  It's a nice feel good moment when you see a story like this, but when you recognize that the hate will still run strong and the awful shit these people do will continue to happen, it kinda makes you recognize how foolish celebrating anything like this really is.


Those small victories still feel great, at least to me, even though they might mean next to nothing. Now that Kiwi Farms is under the spotlight and the forums are possibly gone forever those toxic users will never be able to group up in such sizes ever again


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Those small victories still feel great, at least to me, even though they might mean next to nothing. Now that Kiwi Farms is under the spotlight and the forums are possibly gone forever those toxic users will never be able to group up in such sizes ever again


I can appreciate that.  I don't want to take away the small victories from anybody.  But ones like this just feel so hopeless to me.  Because I feel like within 5 years we'll have another site just like Kiwifarms on that same level and magnitude.  I really hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me I'm not.  I want to find the real solution here, and short of anything unethical, I'm really bummed out to recognize that there probably isn't a true solution to the problem.


----------



## leejaclane (Sep 13, 2022)

I'm all for shitposting, but even as a joke I don't particularly consider it funny to say that a white nationalist who wants people like me dead is actually trans. I shouldn't expect better from someone who frequented 8chan though.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I can appreciate that.  I don't want to take away the small victories from anybody.  But ones like this just feel so hopeless to me.  Because I feel like within 5 years we'll have another site just like Kiwifarms on that same level and magnitude.  I really hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me I'm not.  I want to find the real solution here, and short of anything unethical, I'm really bummed out to recognize that there probably isn't a true solution to the problem.


Like I said, these sites are in the public consciousness now. Hell even MTG, batshit crazy as she is, was swatted by some schizo on that site. Sites like this are undeniably a part of public discourse now and because of that we're gonna see a lot of discussion on where "speech" and "action" end, discussion I think we've needed to have out of necessity for situations like this, but we sure as shit are going to have them now.

At the end of the day I'm not as doomer about it, because I have faith in a lot of discourse with the online left to handle this appropriately and push for better legal action. Keffals for example is using her platform to organize canvassing and other political action for groups seeking to fight this exact kind of shit, and on top of that the domains for Kiwi Farms are being redirected to pro-trans sites to give people access and assistance with transitioning.

So don't sweat the details, because the future is a lot brighter than it may seem initially.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

leejaclane said:


> I'm all for shitposting, but even as a joke I don't particularly consider it funny to say that a white nationalist who wants people like me dead is actually trans. I shouldn't expect better from someone who frequented 8chan though.


ok joke police very good contribution to the thread thank you


----------



## City (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I can appreciate that.  I don't want to take away the small victories from anybody.  But ones like this just feel so hopeless to me.  Because I feel like within 5 years we'll have another site just like Kiwifarms on that same level and magnitude.  I really hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me I'm not.  I want to find the real solution here, and short of anything unethical, I'm really bummed out to recognize that there probably isn't a true solution to the problem.


I don't belileve that you're really 35.

An adult should know that a "hidden" website like a random .onion one like Kiwifawms is going to be come will never, ever have as much of a cult following as what it could have if it was a regular website, or Twitter user, or whatever else of mainstream. Because the average person is dumb as shit and would absolutely harm people with mental disabilities if they could. Leaving this kind of behavior out of the norm is a lot better than you think.



LainaGabranth said:


> ok joke police very good contribution to the thread thank you


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Like I said, these sites are in the public consciousness now. Hell even MTG, batshit crazy as she is, was swatted by some schizo on that site. Sites like this are undeniably a part of public discourse now and because of that we're gonna see a lot of discussion on where "speech" and "action" end, discussion I think we've needed to have out of necessity for situations like this, but we sure as shit are going to have them now.
> 
> At the end of the day I'm not as doomer about it, because I have faith in a lot of discourse with the online left to handle this appropriately and push for better legal action. Keffals for example is using her platform to organize canvassing and other political action for groups seeking to fight this exact kind of shit, and on top of that the domains for Kiwi Farms are being redirected to pro-trans sites to give people access and assistance with transitioning.
> 
> So don't sweat the details, because the future is a lot brighter than it may seem initially.


I sincerely hope your attitude is the correct one to follow, but again, my gut says you're wrong.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but I can't celebrate this kind of 'victory' because to me it feels hollow and disingenuous.  More shit will go down from these people in the coming years, even months.  I feel like to pretend everything is great now would be to turn a blind eye to reality.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> I don't belileve that you're really 35.
> 
> An adult should know that a "hidden" website like a random .onion one like Kiwifawms is going to be come will never, ever have as much of a cult following as what it could have if it was a regular website, or Twitter user, or whatever else of mainstream. Because the average person is dumb as shit and would absolutely harm people with mental disabilities if they could. Leaving this kind of behavior out of the norm is a lot better than you think.


To add to this, most .onion sites are huge fed honeypots. So at first people might think they're hot shit using KiwiFarms through that but they're going to absolutely get shitcanned real quick doing it. On top of the incredibly low numbers through slow as fuck performance and the initial gap required in even getting on the darkweb in the first place, they're also all likely making themselves huge targets for fed investigations


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


>


THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> I don't belileve that you're really 35.
> 
> An adult should know that a "hidden" website like a random .onion one like Kiwifawms is going to be come will never, ever have as much of a cult following as what it could have if it was a regular website, or Twitter user, or whatever else of mainstream. Because the average person is dumb as shit and would absolutely harm people with mental disabilities if they could. Leaving this kind of behavior out of the norm is a lot better than you think.


No offense dude, but you lost your shit at me because you were unfamiliar with a very common English phrase.  Your thoughts mean very little to me.


----------



## City (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> No offense dude, but you lost your shit at me because you were unfamiliar with a very common English phrase.  Your thoughts mean very little to me.


"I'm a retard and have written a retarded hot take but I must make it so it's someone else's fault" - you


----------



## City (Sep 13, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Everywhere.


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I sincerely hope your attitude is the correct one to follow, but again, my gut says you're wrong.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but I can't celebrate this kind of 'victory' because to me it feels hollow and disingenuous.  More shit will go down from these people in the coming years, even months.  I feel like to pretend everything is great now would be to turn a blind eye to reality.


To quote one of my favorite lines from literature,

"By continually forcing to subvert those creeping negative thoughts with the positive logical ones, the emotional mind will eventually, slowly, gradually start to shape to fit the logical."

This is, of course, not fitting your situation to a T, but the point I'm trying to make is that it's best to focus on and be aware of the positive aspects to this rather than the negative, because it lets you know who to back and what actions you can do to improve the situation should it go south.



City said:


> "I'm a retard and have written a retarded hot take but I must make it so it's someone else's fault" - you


why do you get mad when people troll you when you say vile shit like this to people regularly? Chill out. Sit down. Mika is cool.



sombrerosonic said:


> THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









MODS PLEASE LET ME DELETE MY OWN POSTS I BEG YOU


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

mods please let me delete my own posts so triple replies like this stop holy balls AHHHH


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

snibbidy snab


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> "I'm a retard and have written a retarded hot take but I must make it so it's someone else's fault" - you


I'm a retard because I think shutting down this website doesn't stop these awful people from the awful things that they do.  Then I'm full on retard.  I'll own that any day.


----------



## City (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> snibbidy snab 2: elegsdric boogaloo DD





MikaDubbz said:


> I'm a retard because I think shutting down this website doesn't stop these awful people from the awful things that they do.  Then I'm full on retard.  I'll own that any day.


You're a retard because you replied to someone correcting your stupid-ass take with "hurrrrr b-but you huwt my feewings in another twead".


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

City, please quit posting just to be mad.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> To quote one of my favorite lines from literature,
> 
> "By continually forcing to subvert those creeping negative thoughts with the positive logical ones, the emotional mind will eventually, slowly, gradually start to shape to fit the logical."
> 
> This is, of course, not fitting your situation to a T, but the point I'm trying to make is that it's best to focus on and be aware of the positive aspects to this rather than the negative, because it lets you know who to back and what actions you can do to improve the situation should it go south.


I can appreciate where you're coming from.  Again I don't want to take away anyone's victories here.  I feel a lot of hostility (not just from you) when I'm just sharing my genuine opinion on what this website shutdown truly means.  I want kiwifarms being shut down to solve everything in this regard, but I know that would be the incorrect takeaway for sure.  I like that this has slowed things down, that is certainly a good thing to see.  But again, I want to find that actual solution to the bigger problem here.  Kiwifarms was just a symptom of the actual problem here not the true issue for what it actually is.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> You're a retard because you replied to someone correcting your stupid-ass take with "hurrrrr b-but you huwt my feewings in another twead".


Look man, if that's how you read it, then I completely understand how I came across as a retard to you.  But really my only point stands, I don't think shutting down this website will stop these awful people from the awful things that they do, oh and I have no respect for your opinion because of that other thing and definitely how you're acting now too.


----------



## Kioku_Dreams (Sep 13, 2022)

So, uh... We just freely throwing around a derogatory slur commonly used to berate people with special needs? This is happening?

Also, what even is this thread? I knew it devolved quickly, but this is worse than I thought.

Edit: it just now occurred to me this thread was moved to a section better off buried. It all makes sense now. I literally only found it because people keep liking my post..


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

At this point I assume City just hasn't taken his meds in a long time, otherwise I can't explain his messages lmao


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

Kioku_Dreams said:


> So, uh... We just freely throwing around a derogatory slur commonly used to define people with special needs? This is happening?


"It's retardin' time!"


----------



## City (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> City, please quit posting just to be mad.


  


MikaDubbz said:


> Look man, if that's how you read it, then I completely understand how I came across as a retard to you.  But really my only point stands, I don't think shutting down this website doesn't stop these awful people from the awful things that they do.


According to your "logic", we should give these people a space to recruit more potential school shooters.



Cris1997XX said:


> At this point I assume City just hasn't taken his meds in a long time, otherwise I can't explain his messages lmao


Judging by your other posts, it's clear that you lack the fundamental ability to understand the English language properly.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> According to your "logic", we should give these people a space to recruit more potential school shooters.
> 
> 
> Judging by your other posts, it's clear that you lack the fundamental ability to understand the English language properly.


IT'S THE CLOWN (PART 2)!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> MODS PLEASE LET ME DELETE MY OWN POSTS I BEG YOU





City said:


>



THERES MORE?!?!


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> THERES MORE?!?!


Cirno, please help us!1!!11


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> According to your "logic", we should give these people a space to recruit more potential school shooters.


Nope, I've reiterated twice now that I don't have the proper solution here, just that shutting down the website only slows things down at best. Again, I don't know if there is a proper ethical solution here, but that is truly what I'm interested in finding here.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Nope, I've reiterated twice now that I don't have the proper solution here, just that shutting down the website only slows things down at best. Again, I don't know if there is a proper ethical solution here, but that is truly what I'm interested in finding here.


I'd say you should just give up on him, any attempts at reasoning are useless


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## City (Sep 13, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> I'd say you should just give up on him, any attempts at reasoning are useless


Just because you can't follow a conversation for more than 10 seconds doesn't mean you should berate others who try to do so.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> Just because you can't follow a conversation for more than 10 seconds doesn't mean you should berate others who try to do so.


You're the one who is twisting our words, don't you dare act like a fake victim


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## City (Sep 13, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> You're the one who is twisting our words, don't you dare act like a fake victim


I'm not a victim. You're nothing to me, to anyone. Go crawl back in your hole and let the adults talk.


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> I'm not a victim. You're nothing to me, to anyone. Go crawl back in your hole and let the adults talk.


Don't listen to them @Cris1997XX you seem like a solid dude, I'm glad we can at least partake in a mature discourse where even if we don't completely agree, we can respect each other's opinions.  Likewise @LainaGabranth


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## City (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Don't listen to them @Cris1997XX you seem like a solid dude, I'm glad we can at least partake in a mature discourse where even if we don't completely agree, we can respect each other's opinions


Coming from an alleged 35yo who believes that hiding hate websites is useless. I'm sure your opinion isn't worthless.


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## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> Coming from an alleged 35yo who believes that hiding hate websites is useless. I'm sure your opinion isn't worthless.


It's useless if the goal is to end hate.  Absolutely.  Cuz guess what existed for ages before the internet?  Hate.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Don't listen to them @Cris1997XX you seem like a solid dude, I'm glad we can at least partake in a mature discourse where even if we don't completely agree, we can respect each other's opinions


Yeah, I'm glad there's still people with a brain on the internet (Unlike a certain someone...). Respecting each other's opinions and not going overboard is the first step for a decent conversation that won't turn into a shitpost


----------



## City (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> It's useless if the goal is to end hate.  Absolutely.


At this point it's obvious that you're just a troll account.

Like, it was stated multiple times, by multiple people, that the "goal" is to cut down the amount of viewers to avoid more followers.


----------



## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> At this point it's obvious that you're just a troll account.
> 
> Like, it was stated multiple times, by multiple people, that the "goal" is to cut down the amount of viewers to avoid more followers.


You're the troll account here, stop bullshitting and make an actual argument for once


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

City said:


> At this point it's obvious that you're just a troll account.
> 
> Like, it was stated multiple times, by multiple people, that the "goal" is to cut down the amount of viewers to avoid more followers.


And you clearly haven't been reading my opinion from the start and recognizing where my opinion on this matter comes from.  Again, I recognize this slows shit down, absolutely, but it solves nothing beyond that.


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## City (Sep 13, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> You're the troll account here, stop bullshitting and make an actual argument for once


Oh no @MikaDubbz's alt is out for blood!


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> I can appreciate where you're coming from.  Again I don't want to take away anyone's victories here.  I feel a lot of hostility (not just from you) when I'm just sharing my genuine opinion on what this website shutdown truly means.  I want kiwifarms being shut down to solve everything in this regard, but I know that would be the incorrect takeaway for sure.  I like that this has slowed things down, that is certainly a good thing to see.  But again, I want to find that actual solution to the bigger problem here.  Kiwifarms was just a symptom of the actual problem here not the true issue for what it actually is.


This post is gonna be a fuckin doozy. If you're not in the mood or headspace to read a lot of shit about mental illness, incels, and online neo-nazis I would recommend just holding your scroll wheel and going down like (mom joke here).

If we look at this from a sociological perspective you would likely be turning society upside down (in my eyes, it'd be a good thing) to solve the ills plaguing people that use the site in the first place. Social ostracization, radicalization, even fucking menial stuff like lack of support groups for autistic males (See Sigma male communities, like those around Andrew Tate.) can contribute to the kind of people who post there. Like I said, I've used 8chan for quite some time so I have quite a lot of experience with the kind of people who'd come to those boards to post radical shit, and had a lot of conversations with them.

Hell, here's a peak example.






This image may have no meaning to you. It may have some meaning purely because you recognize Protoman's helmet and Stu Pickles.

This image, however, has a different meaning to me. Because back in the day, a good ten or so years ago in the pre-gamergate days, back when Wojak was known as "feels guy," people would post this image around 4 AM EST, and create what we know, extremely creatively, as "4 am threads." These threads were *rife* with people talking about their feelings, their listlessness, and general fear of the world at large. You may likely have seen the conclusion to such views in the form of "Doomers," or this shit.

View attachment 326972

I'm way off track, but trust me when I say this is all going somewhere.

There is a very significant contingent of users on 4chan who feel like they're hopeless, with nowhere to go, with many staying up late just to post in those 4 AM threads for reaffirmation and to mutually link their experiences with one another. The problem is, these people have fallen into a vicious cycle of self-loathing, and as the Germans call it, "purposeful pessimism," seeking only to see the worst in all society. Normally, on their own? These groups are harmless, outside of the obviously high self-harm and suicide rates in these groups.

However, KiwiFarms is but one place that they end up in when radicalized. There were plenty of other sites dedicated to organizing hate campaigns, stalking, and harassment, but KiwiFarms was probably one of the biggest, regularly going after some of the most mundane people, like game modders, writers, random fucking webcomic artists, and so on. See, the thing with the broken people on 4chan back in the day (or 8chan now) is that they're very easy to radicalize if you give them one thing: A purpose.

It's been well documented that radicalization groups and campaigns regularly target these kind of broken people, who feel lost in the world, or that no one will love them, or that the world as a whole isn't sustainable and that they're just living day to day. Imagine if you, someone clamoring for respect when you can't even give yourself any, are told by someone that you can be given value, and a place in the world, with the only price being that you need to speak out against the "ills of society."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/

"Green postulates that Bannon's time at IGE was "one that introduced him to a hidden world, burrowed deep into his psyche, and provided a kind of conceptual framework that he would later draw on to build up the audience for Breitbart News, and then to help marshal the online armies of trolls and activists that overran national politicians and helped give rise to Donald Trump," Green writes."

The article doesn't go into detail enough for my liking, but if you'd like to read up on the kind of rhetoric Milo Yannopoulos, another person who worked closely with Bannon to radicalize a lot of younger males, you can find examples of it (as well as arguments against it) in this video.



There are a lot of people online who are ultimately left behind by the nature of the modern world, either because they aren't making enough to live comfortably, their work/social balance is shit, or that they don't see any real place for them to go in a dead end job. Whatever the root problem is, I can't tell you without getting into my personal philosophy and opinions on the matter. What I can tell you however is that these people have been astroturf'd to hell and back by psychotic people to be psychologically abused time and time again into believing extremist positions, and KiwiFarms is as you said, a symptom of that problem at large.

To conclude this fucking unnecessary-length rant, what I am trying to say in all of this is that the problems that create KiwiFarms go much, much deeper than we can truly assess, and working to solve them at their core would likely see a lot of things being changed, but on the flip side there are also a lot of baby steps we can make that would see immediate results. Minimum wage raises, better health care, better social programs and support groups for the ostracized and radicalized (or about-to-be-radicalized), and so on and so forth.

The point I intend to make in all of this is that the problems that KiwiFarms represents need bigger social solutions that ultimately help people out of these holes they've dug themselves into, and blocking the sites out and deplatforming them are steps in the right direction, because the people organizing them also want to make these changes to society at large. For that reason, I think it's good to support them and hear their arguments on a better structuring for society as a whole, because in the end we'll all benefit from social support programs and the like, more than just KF users and other delusional depressed people with axes to grind against the world would alone.


----------



## Cris1997XX (Sep 13, 2022)

MikaDubbz said:


> Like I said, I'll own being a retard any day.  I'd like a genuine answer to my last question though if you actually have one.


We've given him enough attention already. I just wish we'd be able to delete frickin' threads...


----------



## LainaGabranth (Sep 13, 2022)

City, I know you'll read this even if you want to pretend you don't. I know you're gonna go over this reply again and again.

Talk to your therapist. Vent to them about how you feel, and how you're reacting to people online. This is not healthy behavior. Even if we don't all show it right now we care about you as a human being fundamentally and want you to get help.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> City, I know you'll read this even if you want to pretend you don't. I know you're gonna go over this reply again and again.
> 
> Talk to your therapist. Vent to them about how you feel, and how you're reacting to people online. This is not healthy behavior. Even if we don't all show it right now we care about you as a human being fundamentally and want you to get help.


This is true, I'm not trying to start shit with City.  I probably share some blame here because I started slightly hostile by saying I didn't respect them from an earlier instance of them needlessly losing their shit at me earlier.  But all the same, I don't want to piss them off or hurt them, I don't want to fight with anyone, I just want to be able to properly discourse on genuinely complicated issues with lots of angles to approach them from.


----------



## sombrerosonic (Sep 13, 2022)

THE CLOWNS


----------



## linuxares (Sep 13, 2022)

I'll now start removing people that can't argue without jumping to name calling and posting emotes. If you can't argument without slinging poop. Leave the "political section" of the forums.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Sep 13, 2022)

Aw man, the thread is being purged of the enjoyable current discourse


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## JJ1013 (Sep 13, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> somehow the link to kiwi farms still works on there


Hm? I thought we won the battle. Know Your Meme said that the website could no longer be accessed last time I checked...


... wait what, City can't make up his fucking mind? Tell me something new.



City said:


> Judging by your other posts, it's clear that you lack the fundamental ability to understand the English language properly.



HOLD UP, WHAT?! LMFAO, HE USED THIS SAME SHIT ON THAT OTHER THREAD!

Why the fuck is he using baseless and pointless insults if everyone very goddamn well knows this doesn't work? How the hell did he downgrade into using such a stupid coping mechanism?

I used to have a similar mentality as this months ago and before that. If y'all allow me, I'll be the first to say -- *yikes*.




leejaclane said:


> Also can I just say, I find it very gross that some would suggest someone as incredibly bigoted and transphobic as Crowder is actually trans himself



I'm not sure if all bigots are like this because they're just assholes or because they don't know how to cope with something, but the odds, as I see it, point to "could be improper coping" because I exist. I say this being straight...-ish because recently I let my hair grow longer than usual because I want it to be longer, and now I don't want to see even the most smallest moustache/beard on my face -- if I do, I go and shave every nook and cranny of that area. Not that I wasn't used to the r-word  or "autist" as an insult pre-(late) diagnosis of ASD.

Then again, I got rid of the conservative mentality mid-year, having aged 16, alongside a few visits to the psychologist, so it's probably me being a stupid child, not knowing better and picking up the same political ideologies from my family, then taking them to the extreme.


----------



## mituzora (Sep 13, 2022)

To address what I've read on this post:

I don't believe "taking down" this website how it's described is a freedom of speech issue.  They're not even taking it down,  cloudflare and others are just saying they're in breach of TOS, so they have to find other people willing to let them use their DNS/other services.  That's a TOS problem, and not a freedom-of-speech problem,  much like in the same vein as FB, and their over-zealous censorship.  it sucks, but you're not posting on a public place,  you're posting on a website that is *privately* owned, and they can control what kind of content they want or not. now if it was the US government blocking access to it, then that is a freedom-of-speech issue. Saying Cloudflare and other providers blocking KF is a freedom-of-speech issue is like saying GBATemp has a problem with freedom-of-speech, because they don't allow everything to be said on here, but upon signing up for GBATemp, you agree to their terms, therefore, you agree not to post stuff they don't want you posting. You don't have to use GBATemp, and you can go somewhere else; they're not actively blocking your right to freedom of speech in that regard.

It's great that companies are taking strides to make crummy websites like this less accessible, and it will help in the long run, but it's not going to kill the mindset in general.  You are absolutely right that these people will find another platform to be shitty,  they always do, but it's not a bad idea to be proactive and fight them when they pop up.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

All I want anyone to take away from this thread is that websites like KiwiFarms don't pop up out of nowhere, they are symptoms of greater social ills that we can fix through social policy and programs designed to value human life. Whether you agree or disagree one thing is for certain that, while there is no excuse for the actions of the individuals who post on that site, there are things we can do more collectively through social programs to stop people from reaching the point of mental illness and social ostracization that allows them to be radicalized and post on these sites.


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## erikas (Sep 14, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Feels good not being on the wrong side of history. I'll choose humanity and kindness over fascism and being a piece of shit any day of the week


you missed my point entirely.


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## Jayro (Sep 14, 2022)

erikas said:


> you missed my point entirely.


Maybe, but it doesn't make my point any less true.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 14, 2022)

Jayro said:


> Maybe, but it doesn't make my point any less true.


Yeah, I'd rather limit freedom of speech if it means destroying these fascists pieces of shit


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## Codify (Sep 14, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Yeah, I'd rather limit freedom of speech if it means destroying these fascists pieces of shit


Yeah, I'm in favor of limiting freedom of speech as long as it is speech that I don't like


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## erikas (Sep 14, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Yeah, I'd rather limit freedom of speech if it means destroying these fascists pieces of shit


And this is why not a single one of your opinions should ever be taken seriously. Also fascist? How the fuck are kiwi farms fascist? Do you even know what a fascist is?


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

erikas said:


> And this is why not a single one of your opinions should ever be taken seriously. Also fascist? How the fuck are kiwi farms fascist? Do you even know what a fascist is?


Can you tell the class why your opinion matters lol


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## tabzer (Sep 14, 2022)

They did.  It's like this.  You are saying that these people with outrageous beliefs should be censored and burned out so that a free and open society can prevail.  It's peak satire.  On top of that, you are suggesting that they are fascists, which is clear projection when you are using  fascism to silence them as they are unable to do anything.  Jayro has a habit of saying things that would cancel his ability to say things if the ideals he espouses were to be true.  Basically, he supports his own censorship if we are to assume that he is consistent.


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## erikas (Sep 14, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Can you tell the class why your opinion matters lol


Because when I use words, I actually know what they mean.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 14, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Can you tell the class why your opinion matters lol


Holy shit, I finally respect you. You're great at roasting people lmao


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## tabzer (Sep 14, 2022)

Can't you guys knock it up a notch?  It's a little boring.


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## Cris1997XX (Sep 14, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Can't you guys knock it up a notch?  It's a little boring.


Yaawn, whatever. I'm not doing this to entertain you

...Clown...


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

erikas said:


> Because when I use words, I actually know what they mean.


No, you don't. Because if you did, you would be aware that positions like free speech absolutism are self defeating impossibilities. KiwiFarms exists to suppress the expression of others. Ergo, to protect free speech, it is objectively the most correct point to deplatform them. Besides, they are using other companies' platforms to organize their activities, so it's actually not even a free speech issue, unless you hate private markets and want everything to be publicly owned.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 14, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> ...Clown...


CLOWN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Yaawn, whatever. I'm not doing this to entertain you
> 
> ...Clown...


I only reply to him when he makes a substantive objection to my posts. Something he hasn't done for several weeks now :^)


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## tabzer (Sep 14, 2022)

Cris1997XX said:


> Yaawn, whatever. I'm not doing this to entertain you
> 
> ...Clown...


People didn't build Rome just to collapse, but here we are. 



LainaGabranth said:


> I only reply to him when he makes a substantive objection to my posts. Something he hasn't done for several weeks now :^



Don't lie.  You are only trying to convince one person by saying so.


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## FAST6191 (Sep 14, 2022)

I don't know if it has been posted already as I can't be bothered to wade all the way back through at this point but interesting video that summarises a few things, largely dodges the partisan problem that seemingly many care to indulge in, and offers some alternative points to the rather twisted logic I am seeing in what little wading I cared to do.
In Defense Of Kiwi Farms by ShortFatOtaku

Channel in general is worth checking out as well.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

Ah, the truly non-partisan video: A video by a guy who's a fan of Paul Joseph Watson and constantly rails about SJWs. LMFAO


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## The Catboy (Sep 14, 2022)

I really hope the members of kiwifarms end up developing a personality now that their shit stalking site is dead.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 14, 2022)

The Catboy said:


> I really hope the members of kiwifarms end up developing a personality now that their shit stalking site is dead.


Here's hoping!


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## tabzer (Sep 14, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Ah, the truly non-partisan video: A video by a guy who's a fan of Paul Joseph Watson and constantly rails about SJWs. LMFAO



Hello fellow Biden voter.  Great ad-hominem, much substance.  Are you keffals? LMAO


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## erikas (Sep 15, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Ah, the truly non-partisan video: A video by a guy who's a fan of Paul Joseph Watson and constantly rails about SJWs. LMFAO


There's literally no such thing as "non-partisan" left anywhere. Are you gonna tell me you are not a leftist? Also you're not refuting or even engaging with anything he said.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 15, 2022)

erikas said:


> There's literally no such thing as "non-partisan" left anywhere. Are you gonna tell me you are not a leftist? Also you're not refuting or even engaging with anything he said.


I don't value the opinions of YouTubers who get irrationally mad at black characters in media, for the same reason I don't value yours.


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## tabzer (Sep 15, 2022)

It's a democrat posing as a leftist.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 15, 2022)

huh? This thread still going strong? i thought we all agree that people who bully people for being trans or gay are assholes. and people are still defending them? bruh.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 15, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> huh? This thread still going strong? i thought we all agree that people who bully people for being trans or gay are assholes. and people are still defending them? bruh.


Delusional people have convinced themselves that if you don't let people online stalk, dox, and swat you, you're a fascist. They aren't convincing anyone else, though, hilariously.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 15, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> Delusional people have convinced themselves that if you don't let people online stalk, dox, and swat you, you're a fascist. They aren't convincing anyone else, though, hilariously.


How long till Nothereed updates his siggy with the shit that people said on here


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 15, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> How long till Nothereed updates his siggy with the shit that people said on here


@Nothereed We have some new gold for you!


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## The Catboy (Sep 15, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> huh? This thread still going strong? i thought we all agree that people who bully people for being trans or gay are assholes. and people are still defending them? bruh.


Unfortunately there are still people who believe harassing, stalking, and bullying lgbt+ is still considered freedom of speech. Which it’s not, it’s actually not. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to stalk, harass, bully, etc. there’s are why those actions are and should be met back with hostility.


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## Nothereed (Sep 15, 2022)

LainaGabranth said:


> @Nothereed We have some new gold for you!





sombrerosonic said:


> How long till Nothereed updates his siggy with the shit that people said on here


I was not expecting this....
But I'll run with it. I'll find it in a bit lmao, presuming there is actually something and this wasn't a joke that went right over my head.

Edit: I really should stop trying to keep my hopes high that I don't think I'm going to see the kinds of things I'm going to expect. And then I am disappointed because I do see what I was expecting.


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## Sir Tortoise (Sep 15, 2022)

"Defending freedom of speech" definitely sounds a lot better than the unabridged version for this situation, which is "Defending freedom of speech with regards to illegal messed up stuff and the organisation and execution of said illegal messed up stuff." It's quite telling which kinds of speech people come out of the woodwork for, hence why its usually preferred to avoid references to the actual speech and just be as general and vague as possible. Man, I love rights. Free speech, yeehaw. Speech.


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 15, 2022)

Sir Tortoise said:


> "Defending freedom of speech" definitely sounds a lot better than the unabridged version for this situation, which is "Defending freedom of speech with regards to illegal messed up stuff and the organisation and execution of said illegal messed up stuff." It's quite telling which kinds of speech people come out of the woodwork for, hence why its usually preferred to avoid references to the actual speech and just be as general and vague as possible. Man, I love rights. Free speech, yeehaw. Speech.


Yep. If you have to obfuscate what you're defending, you probably shouldn't be defending it.


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## Nothereed (Sep 15, 2022)

well it's been updated, anything that was deleted I sadly don't have access to.
The bad part?
I think list doubled, new record. seriously considering using a smaller font (edit nope, no smaller font will work. That is sad)


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## Nothereed (Sep 15, 2022)

I'll have to trim the list and archive it somewhere like paste bin at somepoint, since I'm sure mods will be very annoyed with my signature at this rate. If I missed one, dm me.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 15, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> well it's been updated, anything that was deleted I sadly don't have access to.
> The bad part?
> I think list doubled, new record. seriously considering using a smaller font (edit nope, no smaller font will work. That is sad)


my god its huge now


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## Nothereed (Sep 15, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> my god its huge now


I could just quote it, and remove any remarks. But at the sametime, I feel like the context is needed lmao.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 15, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I could just quote it, and remove any remarks. But at the sametime, I feel like the context is needed lmao.


Nah fam, best to keep it like this.......


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## smf (Sep 15, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> huh? This thread still going strong? i thought we all agree that people who bully people for being trans or gay are assholes. and people are still defending them? bruh.


Can we figure out a way to monetize them? Or use them for fuel?


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 15, 2022)

Nothereed said:


> I could just quote it, and remove any remarks. But at the sametime, I feel like the context is needed lmao.


Maybe a google doc would be a better solution


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## Nothereed (Sep 15, 2022)

sombrerosonic said:


> Maybe a google doc would be a better solution


docs wouldn't keep the quotes in tact, so I choose a blog. I'll keep the worst offenders up to the top (presuming I can choose which one)
This also allows for you guys to easily suggest without derailing the thread (I haven't sorted it yet, just did a lazy splice)


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## chrisrlink (Sep 15, 2022)

problem is they know who pressured CF to drop them i just hope they don't do something too stupid like trying to murder her idk how KF operates so i don't know how far they'll go for revenge


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## LainaGabranth (Sep 15, 2022)

chrisrlink said:


> problem is they know who pressured CF to drop them i just hope they don't do something too stupid like trying to murder her idk how KF operates so i don't know how far they'll go for revenge


 They wouldn't be above it, I'd say.


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## tabzer (Sep 15, 2022)

@Nothereed You should put a "..." at the beginning of @UltraDolphinRevolution's quote, because he did say something that contextually changes the proposition of the statement.  If you don't feel like it's necessary, and that lying is justified... by all means, keep it.


Anyway, it looks like you all hate your lives and are here to cope.  Carry on.

"Videogames cause violence"


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## tabzer (Sep 15, 2022)

Sorry ********* I don't think anyone is here for any other reason than to feel good about themselves at the expense of others.  There's no progress here.


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## RAHelllord (Sep 15, 2022)

tabzer said:


> Sorry ********* I don't think anyone is here for any other reason than to feel good about themselves at the expense of others.  There's no progress here.


Now *that* is a good description for all the righties and "centrists" here.


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## sombrerosonic (Sep 15, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Now *that* is a good description for all the righties and "centrists" here.


guess i fall in that catagory then....


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## tabzer (Sep 16, 2022)

RAHelllord said:


> Now *that* is a good description for all the righties and "centrists" here.



You just included yourself.  Good job!


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## linuxares (Sep 16, 2022)

Topic run it's course, closing


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