# US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan



## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

Removed by staff for violation of the rules


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## D34DL1N3R (Aug 15, 2021)

Have I ever called you a hypocrite? I mean, there's really not much else to say. Why were you so silent on all the times Trump fucked up? I looked, but was unable to find any posts you created about it at those times.


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## D34DL1N3R (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> >But trump
> You should be like Biden take credit for this horrible mess
> https://twitter.com/Richard_Harambe/status/1426871587005997064



Except I didn't use the "But Trump" bit. You brought that into it yourself. In order for me to go that route (like all of your side of the fence did with your constant BUT BUT BUT OBAMA!!! BUT BUT BUT HILLARY!!!), I'd have to actually disagree with you on this matter. My comment wasn't to point out things any of them did, it was pointing out things you have done. Hence why I called you a hypocrite. Understand now? Or nah?


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## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

President Biden said all these things out loud on July 8 of this year
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/1426876352989433860


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

@Valwinz

It wasn't long ago that Trump supporters, including many on this site, said that Biden should get zero credit for the American withdrawal from Afghanistan. They said Biden was just doing what Trump already committed to doing. They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too.
Trump criticized Biden's withdrawal plan in April by saying he would have done it even earlier (despite that fact that Trump had four years to do it). We know now that Biden's timetable was much less reckless.
What's going on in Afghanistan is largely in part because of the failed foreign policies that got us to this point, including but not limited to the failed Trump policies that empowered the Taliban and the failed Bush policies that got us into this mess in the first place. The Obama administration isn't blameless either.
Often times, circumstances like the ones we are seeing in Afghanistan are evidence that we should be leaving, they're evidence we shouldn't have been there long (if at all), and they aren't evidence we shouldn't leave. To name a few, the same things happened in Vietnam, Iraq, and now Afghanistan. The consequences of all of these withdrawals show that the choice was either to leave now or to stay there indefinitely without ever having anything to show for it. For example, Obama's withdrawal from Iraq didn't create ISIS; invading Iraq created ISIS. It was pretty much destined to happen unless we stayed there decades or centuries longer.


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## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

Dont let Lacius spin this 
This is what President Biden was telling the American public about Afghanistan just over a month ago pic.twitter.com/eOzV8a8ang— Peter J. Hasson (@peterjhasson) August 15, 2021


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## D34DL1N3R (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> President Biden said all these things out loud on July 8 of this year
> https://twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/1426876352989433860



As I was saying? Where are all of your posts with Tweets and the likes from Trump saying all kinds of the most stupid shit I've ever seen anyone say? Bidens a loser just like Trump. About the only things better about him are that he doesn't have the mouth Trump has and he passed a few more grades than Trump. But go on. Keep being the hypocrite.


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Dont let Lacius spin this
> https://twitter.com/peterjhasson/status/1426768545883512837


Assuming these quotes from Biden are true, they don't make exiting Afghanistan a bad decision, and it isn't Biden's fault that the Afghanistan military wasn't more prepared after twenty years. It's all the more reason for the United States to exit Afghanistan. Like with Vietnam and Iraq before it, it shows we have virtually nothing to show for twenty years in Afghanistan.

You also had the former president saying similar things and criticizing Biden for not withdrawing even earlier. Trump and his supporters have been screaming for months, in-between gasps about imaginary voter fraud, that they should get all the credit for Afghanistan withdrawal. Which is it?



Valwinz said:


> Breaking news if this is true this is illegal
> https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1426876247443914755


Where's the "credible report"?


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## Deleted User (Aug 15, 2021)

Democrats still with their TDS. Every time Biden screws up "But Trump"


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

NoSomeBody said:


> Democrats still with their TDS. Every time Biden screws up "But Trump"


It's relevant to point out the hypocrisy of Trump and his supporters. It wasn't long ago that Trump and his supporters claimed that all the credit of leaving Afghanistan should go to them, for example. Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's relevant to point out the hypocrisy of Trump and his supporters. It wasn't long ago that Trump and his supporters claimed that all the credit of leaving Afghanistan should go to them, for example. Hindsight is always 20/20.


people are being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States RIGHT NOW LACIUS and Joe took all the credit for it


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> ANother Biden quote
> https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/1426874488583565320


I've already explained how these quotes are irrelevant to whether or not we should leave Afghanistan. What's going on now in response to the United States leaving is more evidence that we should be leaving.

Despite what happened in Vietnam, for example, I don't think anybody would argue that we shouldn't have left Vietnam.


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> people are being lifted off the roof of an embassy of the United States RIGHT NOW LACIUS and Joe took all the credit for it


After Trump tried to take all of the credit for it (and even criticized Biden for not doing it sooner, despite the fact that Trump had four years to do it).

Leaving Afghanistan is still the right decision.


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## D34DL1N3R (Aug 15, 2021)

NoSomeBody said:


> Democrats still with their TDS. Every time Biden screws up "But Trump"



Leave it to Trumpers to come up with a self incriminating term like TDS. Morons can't even get an insult right.


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

@Valwinz 

First, I'd love it if you could have an original thought for once instead of mindlessly and lazily posting tweet after tweet. Then you might actually be able to participate in the conversation.
Nobody is saying the situation in Afghanistan isn't volatile. That doesn't mean, however, that exiting Afghanistan still isn't the right decision. The right decisions are often hard decisions. It's easy for some (Trump and his supporters) to try to take credit for a policy that wasn't his when it was an easy and popular decision, and it's easy to hypocritically condemn it when the decision becomes hard and less popular.  I don't envy Biden being in this position, but at least he is still making the right call.


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## B-Blue (Aug 15, 2021)




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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> I guess Biden had other priorities lol
> https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKabul/status/1400060130243362816


Are you arguing it was a bad thing or at all detrimental to acknowledge the respect and dignity the LGBT community deserves?

If a single tweet got in the way of an orderly exit from Afghanistan, then the situation was much more fucked up than we knew, and that would be all the more reason to leave.

Nice try at trying to connect the situation in Afghanistan with your own homophobia though.


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Can't hear you over the people evacuating that  Embassy  right now after the BIDEN FAILURE


The embassy is being successfully evacuated. I'm sorry, where is the failure?


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## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The embassy is being successfully evacuated. I'm sorry, where is the failure?


HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
Secretary Blinken in June: “We are staying, the embassy is staying, our programs are staying... I would not necessarily equate the departure of forces in July, August, or by early September with some kind of immediate deterioration in the situation.”pic.twitter.com/fG6dfFMcdT— Jerry Christmas 🎅🏼🎄 (@JerryDunleavy) August 15, 2021


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
> https://twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1426879496171491333


I'm sorry, but could you articulate in your own words where the "failure" part of the withdrawal from Afghanistan comes in? Just because Secretary Blinken was wrong and specific plans have changed doesn't mean anything about the withdrawal is a failure.


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> There is no Biden failure here


I've already explained how a.) it isn't the fault of the Biden administration that the situation in Afghanistan is so volatile, and b.) the volatility of the situation in Afghanistan isn't a reason to stay; it's even more reason to leave.

I don't really feel like having a conversation with your Twitter feed, so from now on, I'll be responding only to your words.


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## seany1990 (Aug 15, 2021)

Afghanistan was a complete failure of America in general. It goes way beyond Biden


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## Localhorst86 (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> As the Taliban surged, the US Embassy in Kabul celebrated Gay Pride month.
> 
> Really makes you think



Please feel free to explain your full thought process, we love watching a good trainwreck.


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## Localhorst86 (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> No need the Biden Trainwreck its been documented as i post
> They lie to Biden again imao
> https://twitter.com/alexsalvinews/status/1426907907023544320


Can someone confrm or deny that this is just a bot programmed to quote a twitter feed?


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## DoubleDate (Aug 15, 2021)

Lots of people dont understand how seriously bad this situation is. Every commenting its not our war we should leave them alone, do you really think they will just stop there? It will be a brewing ground for extremist. It is bad news for the west. Dont you remember Massoud who was killed in 2001 because he warned the US about an upcoming attack on US soil? Those people are a danger to other civilizations and are doing nothing than just destroy. If nothing is done they will come to the west, meaning the rise of attacks on western cities. 4 years when Trump was president we didnt hear anything, mostly just the media critisizing Trump, Joe is President in less than a year and many things are not going well. Feel bad for the people in Afghanistan. If the Kurds were there, they would kept them at bay, sadly they are on their own now. China could easily wipe them out, i really do hope that China does not side with them. Biden should've not done this and kept the deal Trump made. He just went full mode and ignored everything, now lives are at stake.


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## leon315 (Aug 15, 2021)

20 years of illegal occupation, spent 4 Trillion dollars to install an useless puppet govt, wonder is there other efficient way to burn tax payers money?


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> As the Taliban surged, the US Embassy in Kabul celebrated Gay Pride month.
> 
> Really makes you think


Posting a tweet celebrating LGBT pride doesn't demonstrate anything other than your own homophobia.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 15, 2021)

We are literally flying B-52's to Afghanistan to bomb _our own_ airplanes, to prevent them falling into Taliban possession due to failed forecasting for the timeline of the withdrawal and no plan to deal with it.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/b-52-bombers-head-to-afghanistan/


But everything's fine.


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## Arecaidian Fox (Aug 15, 2021)

Huh, another useless Valwinz thread. That's cool, I guess. Seems like you can't have too many of those.


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## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

is over 
BREAKING: Afghan President Ghani has fled the country. “That’s it. It’s over,” U.S. official says— Lucas Tomlinson (@LucasFoxNews) August 15, 2021



WE DID IT JOE  all that US equipment all that money WELL DONE BIDEN 
https://t.co/5XgwN0iFvg pic.twitter.com/LumcLXPiLE— Stephen L. Miller (@redsteeze) August 15, 2021


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## Xzi (Aug 15, 2021)

The failure was going into Afghanistan in the first place.  Does anybody remember what the mission there was supposed to be?  No?  Me neither.


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## Valwinz (Aug 15, 2021)

Xzi said:


> worldwide diplomatic pressure


just like it did when China caused a global pandemic resulting in over six million deaths wait


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> just like it did when China caused a global pandemic resulting in over six million deaths wait



China didn't "cause" the pandemic.
I don't remember the "worldwide diplomatic pressure" from countries telling China, "Hey, don't cause a pandemic."
COVID-19 either is or isn't a deadly pandemic worth dealing with. Pick a side.


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## EmanueleBGN (Aug 15, 2021)

20 years of war.
Thousands of men killed.
Billions of dollars wasted.
For nothing.
Viet-Nam 2.021


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## Localhorst86 (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> just like it did when China caused a global pandemic resulting in over six million deaths wait


Is this AI implying that Covid-19 is virus deliberately planted by China as an act of war?


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## The Catboy (Aug 15, 2021)

I am not reading this thread before posting, I already know it's just a useless Valwinz where he posts Tweets and nothing of any real substance. We shouldn't have been in Afghanistan and we should blame the entire mess on Bush for starting it and Obama and Trump for continuing the war that shouldn't have even been started in the first place.


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## Xzi (Aug 15, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> just like it did when China caused a global pandemic resulting in over six million deaths wait


Fucking brilliant, we can cure cancer simply by putting diplomatic pressure on it.  I don't know how the world's top scientists and doctors could have missed this one simple trick all these years!


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## ghjfdtg (Aug 15, 2021)

Nothing but a pure propaganda thread. Move on people.


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> I am not reading this thread before posting, I already know it's just a useless Valwinz where he posts Tweets and nothing of any real substance. We shouldn't have been in Afghanistan and we should blame the entire mess on Bush for starting it and Obama and Trump for continuing the war that shouldn't have even been started in the first place.


I'd love to know what's going through the mind of anyone who sees what's going on in Afghanistan and thinks, "We should stay here."


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## jimbo13 (Aug 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Posting a tweet celebrating LGBT pride doesn't demonstrate anything other than your own homophobia.




No it express's contempt for Afghanistan's culture (rightfully so) but you don't antagonize a country your trying to broker a stable withdrawal from, why not just go piss on the graves of their ancestors "Cus meh inclusionz"


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## chrisrlink (Aug 15, 2021)

afghanistan was going to fall anyways as well as Iraq it was only a matter of when


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## Lacius (Aug 15, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> No it express's contempt for Afghanistan's culture (rightfully so) but you don't antagonize a country your trying to broker a stable withdrawal from, why not just go piss on the graves of their ancestors "Cus meh inclusionz"


Tweeting about respect for LGBT people isn't expressing contempt for anybody's culture.

What the hell are you even talking about?


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## GBAer (Aug 15, 2021)

It's also time for America to end it's  illegal Occupation of Syria.


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## subcon959 (Aug 15, 2021)

I remember having a stopover in Kabul back in the 80s. It was terrifying even then as the airport was full of heavily armed soldiers. I'm thinking this was a problem before Biden's presidency.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 15, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Tweeting about respect for LGBT people isn't expressing contempt for anybody's culture.
> 
> What the hell are you even talking about?



Afghanistan is a fundamentalist Muslim theocracy.  Are you daft to the basic fact as a people they find homosexuality repugnant and a manifestation of Satan on earth and are more than prone to engage in violence as a response.

Civilian and troop casualties are not worth a a virtue signaling tweet they should be entirely aware are going to antagonize the local populace.


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## PokeNas (Aug 15, 2021)

I agree, Biden is nothing but a failure.


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## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

But seriously though where is Joe? Is he legit gonna hide until next week or something?


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Afghanistan is a fundamentalist Muslim theocracy.  Are you daft to the basic fact as a people they find homosexuality repugnant and a manifestation of Satan on earth and are more than prone to engage in violence as a response.
> 
> Civilian and troop casualties are not worth a a virtue signaling tweet they should be entirely aware are going to antagonize the local populace.



This is a broad overgeneralization.
Are you saying the US should sell out its core values?
This would be all the more reason for the US to withdraw.


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## seany1990 (Aug 16, 2021)

It's understandable that conservatives are celebrating an overthrown government given their recent history


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> But seriously though where is Joe? Is he legit gonna hide until next week or something?


He's at Camp David, and he's expected to address the nation within the next few days.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



seany1990 said:


> It's understandable that conservatives are celebrating an overthrown government given their recent history


All while hypocritically saying until very recently that Trump should get all of the credit for an Afghanistan withdrawal.


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## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

WELP
Welp. pic.twitter.com/msFgcEkmuj— Alex Thompson (@AlexThomp) August 15, 2021


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> This is a broad overgeneralization.
> Are you saying the US should sell out its core values?
> This would be all the more reason for the US to withdraw.



I am saying it is bad diplomacy to occupy a country and then have your ambassadors tweeting support for a behavior that is known to be repugnant to the local populace from their capitol when your supposed to be there to stabilize a violent situation.

There is a time and place for everything,  Tweeting about gay pride from Kabul in the middle of a warzone isn't exactly on my todo list.


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I am saying it is bad diplomacy to occupy a country and then have your ambassadors tweeting support for a behavior that is known to be repugnant to the local populace from their capitol when your supposed to be there to stabilize a violent situation.
> 
> There is a time and place for everything,  Tweeting about gay pride from Kabul in the middle of a warzone isn't exactly on my todo list.


Do you have any evidence that this tweet actually did anything of of consequence, or are you just spouting homophobic and islamophobic nonsense?


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Do you have any evidence that this tweet actually did anything of of consequence, or are you just spouting homophobic and islamophobic nonsense?



New level of daft to claim it is Islamophobic to acknowledge Afghanistan is in no way tolerant to homosexuality.


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> New level of daft to claim it is Islamophobic to acknowledge Afghanistan is in no way tolerant to homosexuality.


It's islamophobic to make broad characterizations as if they apply to everybody in that region.

I'd also like to point you that you avoided my question.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's islamophobic to make broad characterizations as if they apply to everybody in that region.
> 
> I'd also like to point you that you avoided my question.



Because your derping nonsense is so removed from reality, history and recent events such as the youtube video in Syria I found it to be complete garbage.


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Because your derping nonsense is so removed from reality, history and recent events such as the youtube video in Syria I found it to be complete garbage.


Nobody is arguing that homophobia doesn't exist in the Middle East. Your claims were overgeneralized, and you also provided no evidence that the tweet resulted in anything negative. Your point about homophobia and how the United States should sell out its values would also be reason enough to withdraw from the region.

Come back after you've collected your thoughts.


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## KingVamp (Aug 16, 2021)

He would have just made a similar thread, if Biden canceled the withdrawal.


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## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

The cope is real
President Biden isn’t on “vacation.” Anyone tweeting that false claim should be suspended for it.— Palmer Report (@PalmerReport) August 15, 2021

If he isn't on Vacation, then that literally just means he isn't doing his job.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Nobody is arguing that homophobia doesn't exist in the Middle East. Your claims were overgeneralized, and you also provided no evidence that the tweet resulted in anything negative. Your point about homophobia and how the United States should sell out its values would also be reason enough to withdraw from the region.
> 
> Come back after you've collected your thoughts.



I said none of the ridiculous things you are attributing to me.

I said it's the depths of bad diplomacy to have your embassy representatives in a hostile nation advocating for things that carry a death sentence in the country you are tweeting them from.




Valwinz said:


> The cope is real
> 
> If he isn't on Vacation, then that literally just means he isn't doing his job.



The newspeak term for vacation in 2021 is "Biden called a lid"  first Presidementia in history to claim a national "time out" is a thing.


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## RivenMain (Aug 16, 2021)

Pretty certain he'll go down as the worst president. I can't imagine a dementia patient winning the election. Trump created so many jobs, and now I can't drive anywhere without seeing closed business's and landlords struggling to eat well people are knocking on their door trying to buy their property and debt for cheap.


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I said none of the ridiculous things you are attributing to me.
> 
> I said it's the depths of bad diplomacy to have your embassy representatives in a hostile nation advocating for things that carry a death sentence in the country you are tweeting them from.


I'm still waiting for your evidence that the tweet did anything substantive.

And yes, go back to your previous posts. You spoke in overgeneralizations about an entire group of people.



Valwinz said:


> then that literally just means he isn't doing his job.


How do you figure?



RivenMain said:


> Pretty certain he'll go down as the worst president. I can't imagine a dementia patient winning the election. Trump created so many jobs, and now I can't drive anywhere without seeing closed business's and landlords struggling to eat well people are knocking on their door trying to buy their property and debt for cheap.



There is no evidence that he has dementia.
The rate of job growth did not increase under Trump pre-COVID.
It was largely Trump's COVID response failure that led to the worst case of job losses in modern history.
Job growth has been booming under Biden, in part because he inherited a disastrous economy from his predecessor, and in part because the Democrats passed a stimulus measure with virtually zero Republican support.
Closed businesses are largely the result of the former administration's aforementioned incompetence.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I'm still waiting for your evidence that the tweet did anything substantive.
> 
> And yes, go back to your previous posts. You spoke in overgeneralizations about an entire group of people.
> 
> ...




Feel free to define over generalization anyway you like, but IMO if you can gather a large crowd to stone a homosexual to death and no one is going to intervene I will continue to asses that as your population is not tolerant of homosexuality.

Promoting acts that carry a legal death sentence may lead to death. I mean in this imaginary world you are living in has Afghanistan legalized homosexuality.


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## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Feel free to define over generalization anyway you like, but IMO if you can gather a large crowd to stone a homosexual to death and no one is going to intervene I will continue to asses that as your population is not tolerant of homosexuality.
> 
> Promoting acts that carry a legal death sentence may lead to death. I mean in this imaginary world you are living in has Afghanistan legalized homosexuality.


Again, nobody said that homophobia doesn't exist in the Middle East, but you're making overgeneralized statements like "this is what this group of people is like," you're suggesting the US should betray its principles regarding civil rights as though that's ever acceptable, you're arguing as though a tweet had any significant effect on foreign policy in the Middle East without a shred of evidence, and your entire point only further demonstrates why we should withdraw from the region.

Yawn.


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## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I'm still waiting for your evidence that the tweet did anything substantive.
> 
> And yes, go back to your previous posts. You spoke in overgeneralizations about an entire group of people.
> 
> ...



No disrespect to you, but how can you defend Nappy Joe? The world wa spinning more safely when Trump was the US president. Im defnitely not  Trump fan but since he was in power there were no wars, heck even the extremist in Afghanistan didnt dare to poke him since he wouldn't hesistate to bomb them to oblivion. Joe literally cancelled everything what Trump did during the 4 years but he couldnt make a plan to safely retreat from Afghanistan. I had a very bad feeling when he was elected president, and now you see how things are turning. Trump would've never allowed things to go out like this. Things are going to get worse, we are just 8 months in. The extremist will not stop in Afghanistan, i dont understand why people dont get how bad this is. They will try to attack the west.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Again, nobody said that homophobia doesn't exist in the Middle East, but you're making overgeneralized statements like "this is what this group of people is like," you're suggesting the US should betray its principles regarding civil rights as though that's ever acceptable, you're arguing as though a tweet had any significant effect on foreign policy in the Middle East without a shred of evidence, and your entire point only further demonstrates why we should withdraw from the region.
> 
> Yawn.



I am not suggesting the "US should betray it's principals".

I am saying they should not betray common sense and have diplomats promote a behavior that carries a death sentence, Diplomats are not there to raise pride flags and kick the hornets nest.   

This is what Afghanistan is like, they are not tolerant of homosexuals and anyone who is or was would face execution.


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## Seliph (Aug 16, 2021)

I imagine any withdrawal from any administration would be a disaster, just like any parasite leaving its host. But it's better than staying. No matter what administration is in charge, Afghanistan will always bear the scars from the previous (and current) administration's sins. This is the nature of empire and should not be a surprise to any of us. This isn't a symptom of Biden, it's a symptom and result of mindless greed-fueled decades long imperialism sponsored by the good old US of A.



jimbo13 said:


> This is what Afghanistan is like, they are not tolerant of homosexuals


You aren't either ya dummy


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## RivenMain (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I
> How do you figure?
> 
> 
> ...



1:https://imgur.com/SNL8Ypy Your right he just needs jen psaki to translate his mumbling and have him stand in the corner well she talks.
2:Yea it did.
3: nope more people die from being struck by lightning than dying to covid.
4:Job growth has never been lower. We're forcing landlord not to collect money and bringing 1000's of illegal immagrants in to fill in american jobs only for that money to be moved outside the u.s economies don't work that way.
5. If they were Trump's fault they would of been closed during his presidency not biden's.


edit:for people that say trump's racist and for some reason ur only ability to point out racism is rosa parks despite it happening 75 years ago and not realizing the worlds not 1955 https://i.imgur.com/MJj4YRT.png here's rosa and trump together.


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## Ibcap (Aug 16, 2021)

RivenMain said:


> Pretty certain he'll go down as the worst president.


Do you REALLY think Biden will go down as worse than Nixon or Hoover or Jackson? I really doubt it.


RivenMain said:


> I can't drive anywhere without seeing closed business's and landlords struggling to eat well people are knocking on their door trying to buy their property and debt for cheap.


I wonder if maybe that has to do with the global PANDEMIC? Unemployment skyrocketed while trump was still in office. Claiming this changed with Biden is ignorant at best and intentionally malicious at worst. Of course this could have been fixed if Biden had handled the pandemic quickly and effectively, but he dropped the ball. No, wait, that wasnt biden was it?


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## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Imao Uk flexing 
The British Ambassador is staying, working to get UK citizens out. https://t.co/vcMC1qMNb4— ian bremmer (@ianbremmer) August 15, 2021


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## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I am not suggesting the "US should betray it's principals".
> 
> I am saying they should not betray common sense and have diplomats promote a behavior that carries a death sentence, Diplomats are not there to raise pride flags and kick the hornets nest.
> 
> This is what Afghanistan is like, they are not tolerant of homosexuals and anyone who is or was would face execution.


You'll never get the point across where it's going to grasp that it's common sense to not piss off a nation with something they absolutely hate. They don't understand just because it's a building in a nation which you're already a hostile there that you can stomp around as if you have all the America rights and nothing bad will happen to you. They don't understand accommodating to their culture when you're a visitor in their land and on top of that, when trying to leave and throwing up the flag they see as pure, sheer evil and expecting them to not want to do anything to end that or you for even doing such a thing that they see as disrespectful to them/their country when they absolutely abhor it. It's not America, nor other nice nations. I feel a lot of these people are very sheltered behind computers and have not visited these foreign lands and been "apart of the shit". We've become so prosperous as a country that America has become very soft and it's going to cause, as people have stated already in the thread, things happening again on U.S. soil.

And China going after Taiwan - yes, I can see China doing it, because China does shit because they don't give a shit what other nations think, regardless what people think that they follow the rules. Look at their citizens who they're all tracking and disappearing if they protest-- do people forget this? Crimes against humanity, but people don't do shit nor does China give a f.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Seliph said:


> You aren't either ya dummy



I am entirely tolerant of homosexuals, I am intolerant of the political party known as the Alphabet brigade and every ridiculous inter sectional stereotype they attribute to being gay.   I have no shortage of gay or trans people in my life personally and culturally that I have the deepest affection and admiration for.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> No disrespect to you, but how can you defend Nappy Joe? The world wa spinning more safely when Trump was the US president. Im defnitely not  Trump fan but since he was in power there were no wars, heck even the extremist in Afghanistan didnt dare to poke him since he wouldn't hesistate to bomb them to oblivion. Joe literally cancelled everything what Trump did during the 4 years but he couldnt make a plan to safely retreat from Afghanistan. I had a very bad feeling when he was elected president, and now you see how things are turning. Trump would've never allowed things to go out like this. Things are going to get worse, we are just 8 months in. The extremist will not stop in Afghanistan, i dont understand why people dont get how bad this is. They will try to attack the west.



Someone who throws around nicknames like "Nappy Joe" isn't necessarily unbiased.
Trump escalated ongoing wars, civilian deaths increased under Trump, and the Taliban were empowered under Trump.
Not hesitating to "bomb someone into oblivion" isn't good foreign policy.
Exiting Afghanistan wasn't going to be easy, since being there in the first place was a shit show, but exiting the region is/was still the right call. What we are seeing now is evidence that our presence was pointless, unless we intended to be there forever.
Trump said numerous times since losing the election that he would have withdrawn from Afghanistan, and quicker. In fact, he said he should get all the credit for the current withdrawal, but that was when it was popular and easy to say, so of course that's what he said. Now, not so much.
You seem to be forgetting the hundreds of thousands of COVID-19 deaths under Trump, the children separated from their parents at the border under Trump, etc.



RivenMain said:


> 1:https://imgur.com/SNL8Ypy Your right he just needs jen psaki to translate his mumbling and have him stand in the corner well she talks.
> 2:Yea it did.
> 3: nope more people die from being struck by lightning than dying to covid.
> 4:Job growth has never been lower. We're forcing landlord not to collect money and bringing 1000's of illegal immagrants in to fill in american jobs only for that money to be moved outside the u.s economies don't work that way.
> ...


I suggest looking at the facts and looking at what's actually true, instead of just spewing what you feel is true. The 2021 monthly job gains are so high they're nearly unprecedented, and the monthly job gains under Trump were no different than Obama's post-recession. It sounds like you need to collect your thoughts and get your facts straight. 

No, it is not true that "more people get struck by lightning than die from COVID-19."

If businesses permanently closed in 2020 due to the pandemic and Trump's mishandling if the pandemic, then they are still going to be closed in 2021.


----------



## KingVamp (Aug 16, 2021)

Didn't Trump abandon the Kurds?


----------



## RivenMain (Aug 16, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> Do you REALLY think Biden will go down as worse than Nixon or Hoover or Jackson? I really doubt it.
> 
> Of course this could have been fixed if Biden had handled the pandemic quickly and effectively, but he dropped the ball. No, wait, that wasnt biden was it?


The first vaccines came out in December 14th. It only took 2 months to get multiple vaccines out to the public. It's been 8 months and what's changed? Where's the cure? How many presidents does it take to cure a virus? It shouldn't be the new lightbulb bro.

As for nixon and hoover, he just pushed illegal eviction bans so tell me why Biden shouldn't be impeached?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I am entirely tolerant of homosexuals, I am intolerant of the political party known as the Alphabet brigade and every ridiculous inter sectional stereotype they attribute to being gay.   I have no shortage of gay or trans people in my life personally and culturally that I have the deepest affection and admiration for.


I wonder how the LGBT people in your life would respond to you vehemently supporting anti-LGBT presidents and policies.


----------



## RivenMain (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I wonder how the LGBT people in your life would respond to you vehemently supporting anti-LGBT presidents and policies.


Going to add Trumps supported lgbt


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

RivenMain said:


> Going to add Trumps supported lgbt



Trump supports LGBT people who support him. He does not support LGBT people, and he does not support LGBT rights. You can see this post of mine for details:



Lacius said:


> Trump does not support any part of the LGBT community. You might be able to find some comments here and there about how he supports the LGBT community, but actions speak louder than words. At every chance he had, he did what he could to strip rights away from the LGBT community. They spent years ignoring Pride Month. As soon as the former president was sworn in, LGBT resource pages on the White House website were removed. They tried to remove LGBT questions from the census in order to erase LGBT people. They tried to remove LGBT people from the equal employment policies at the commerce department. They banned trans people from the military for no reason other than to be anti-LGBT. They ordered the Department of Education to remove anti-discrimination policies relating to LGBT people. They explicitly said they'd reject civil rights complaints at the Department of Education relating to LGBT issues. They gave federal funds to private schools that explicitly discriminate against LGBT people. They removed healthcare protections for LGBT people, effectively making it so anyone could refuse health care to anybody who is LGBT, for any reason. They established an office within HHS to specifically defend people who refused medical care to LGBT people. They granted federal funds to foster programs that discriminated against LGBT people. They engaged in an outright effort to specifically erase trans people from all existing protections and acknowledgements online. They ordered the CDC to stop using words like "transgender." They created a rule to stop doing data collection on LGBT foster youth, creating significant impediments to helping them, all for no reason but to cause harm. They ordered the removal of questions relating to LGBT people from forms belonging to programs that help the elderly and disabled, hindering the ability to help those people's specific needs as well. They ordered the removal of anti-discrimination policies relating to LGBT people from HUD. They ordered HUD to permit shelters to deny entry to trans people. They ordered the cancellation of HUD surveys relating to LGBT needs. They ordered the Justice Department to argue in court against anti-LGBT discrimination. They rolled back previously existing protections for LGBT people in prisons. They rolled back anti-discrimination policies affecting LGBT federal contractors. They ordered the denial of visas to same-sex partners of diplomats. They ordered a rule change so that a child born of a same-sex couple born overseas via a surrogate wouldn't be eligible for US citizenship. They removed the US from the UN Human Rights Council with one of the main reasons being because of LGBT issues (they were friendly to LGBT people and LGBT issues). They refused to sign a statement condemning physical attacks against LGBT people overseas. They ordered the removal of a pro-LGBT program in the 4H program, hurting LGBT children. They've nominated numerous justices, including ones even controversial among the Republican Party, who are vehemently anti-LGBT. Under their policies, ICE as specifically mistreated LGBT inmates in their custody. They did and said nothing relating to anti-trans violence and murders in this country.
> 
> I try to remember that the amount of ignorance needed to make a statement like "the former president was actually pro-gay" comes from a place of privilege, not a place of malice, but it was incredibly offensive.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I wonder how the LGBT people in your life would respond to you vehemently supporting anti-LGBT presidents and policies.



I wont be addressing your adhominem straw man with nothing cited, because we all know when your losing you and Dakitten will simply accuse me of changing the topic to escape your ridiculous claims.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I wont be addressing your adhominem straw man with nothing cited, because we all know when your losing you and Dakitten will simply accuse me of changing the topic to escape your ridiculous claims.


I didn't make an ad hominem argument. I did not say your position on X was bad because you are Y. I also didn't make a straw man argument. I haven't mischaracterized your position, unless you're saying you are in favor of LGBT rights and opposed to the former president's anti-LGBT policies.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I wont be addressing your adhominem straw man with nothing cited, because we all know when your losing you and Dakitten will simply accuse me of changing the topic to escape your ridiculous claims.


It is only true when it is, which is near to always, darling! So close to a breakthrough!


----------



## Viri (Aug 16, 2021)

They really should have either got the equipment out, or destroyed it.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Someone who throws around nicknames like "Nappy Joe" isn't necessarily unbiased.
> Trump escalated ongoing wars, civilian deaths increased under Trump, and the Taliban were empowered under Trump.
> Not hesitating to "bomb someone into oblivion" isn't good foreign policy.
> Exiting Afghanistan wasn't going to be easy, since being there in the first place was a shit show, but exiting the region is/was still the right call. What we are seeing now is evidence that our presence was pointless, unless we intended to be there forever.
> ...



Classic one, blaming Covid on Trump, doesnt surprise me. Its already coming out that Covid did in fact leaked from a lab in China, it will in the end come clear but people will still blame everything on Trump.

And yes he is Nappy Joe, i dont get why that name would make someone biased. The US borders are wide open, dont look like a suprised Pikachu face when something happens in the states. Those extremist in Afghanistan dont give a flying stone about the safety of other people, they will execute anything that doesnt do go according to them. 

Trump made a deal with them, he even warned that if civilians would be harmed he would bomb then, what is Joe doing? Nothing! There are around 10,000 westerners now in Kabul, if they get their hands on diplomats or Americans what do you think that will happen to them?

Joe just left without telling anyone, abandoning all its people to the hands of those extremist. My heard aches for what will happen to those young girls and woman. But since you are confy in your home, it doenst affect you right? Wait till they hit any Western country and then there will you: But i thought, i didnt think that would happen, my mistake.

The point is, this mess would've never happened under Trumps command. 

Well see in a few months from now how your tune will change when those barbarics acts will be on the papers on numerious ocassions. Extremist that left Iraq, Syria will go now to Afghanistan, they will plot how to deal damage to the west.

That is why this whole situation is a whole mess. No extremist dared to do anything when Trump was president. Joe is in office for 8 months and the decisions he is making will deal consecuences to the normal citizens.

Still dont get why you are defending that whole mess of administration. He couldve prevented this whole mess without having lives at stake. Even the Pentagon is in denial, they said it would take 60-90 days for Kabul to fall, look how its going.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I didn't make an ad hominem argument. I did not say your position on X was bad because you are Y. I also didn't make a straw man argument. I haven't mischaracterized your position, unless you're saying you are in favor of LGBT rights and opposed to the former president's anti-LGBT policies.



Then maybe you should stop citing algebraic unknown.  You attribute X & Y to whatever political policy you favor then accuse others of thought crimes and being a -ist or -phobic for their opposition.


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 16, 2021)

RivenMain said:


> The first vaccines came out in December 14th. It only took 2 months to get multiple vaccines out to the public. It's been 8 months and what's changed? Where's the cure? How many presidents does it take to cure a virus? It shouldn't be the new lightbulb bro.
> 
> As for nixon and hoover, he just pushed illegal eviction bans so tell me why Biden shouldn't be impeached?


A huge portion of the country are conspiracy theorists who wont take the vaccine which is preventing businesses from reopening. Even if this wasnt the case, reopening the country doesnt magically fix unemployment. The virus was an unprecedented disaster that will take a long time to fix even if handled properly from the start, which it certainly wasnt. An for your second point, please give me a source on that? Also, to point out the obvious, impeachment isnt meant for if the president breaks the law, its meant for if theyre incompetent.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Classic one, blaming Covid on Trump, doesnt surprise me. Its already coming out that Covid did in fact leaked from a lab in China, it will in the end come clear but people will still blame everything on Trump.
> 
> And yes he is Nappy Joe, i dont get why that name would make someone biased. The US borders are wide open, dont look like a suprised Pikachu face when something happens in the states. Those extremist in Afghanistan dont give a flying stone about the safety of other people, they will execute anything that doesnt do go according to them.
> 
> ...


It has not been confirmed that COVID originated in a lab, let alone that it was artificially created. Trump's initial response to the virus was "Don't worry about it, it's like the flu, don't wear a mask, make fun of anyone who wears a mask, maybe ingesting bleach will work," etc. We do not have "open borders." I never said what was happening in Afghanistan wasn't volatile or upsetting, but they aren't justification for staying in the country, and your own messiah says he would have left even earlier.

By no objective metric I'm aware of can the Biden administration be considered a mess. The situation in Afghanistan has less to do with Biden and more to do with the preceding 20 years. We have no business staying there, unless the plan is to stay there forever.



jimbo13 said:


> Then maybe you should stop citing algebraic unknown.  You attribute X & Y to whatever political policy you favor then accuse others of thought crimes and being a -ist or -phobic for their opposition.


I acknowledge others' bigotry when they're being bigoted, for example. Don't blame the witness for the figurative criminal's crime.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 16, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> I remember having a stopover in Kabul back in the 80s. It was terrifying even then as the airport was full of heavily armed soldiers. I'm thinking this was a problem before Biden's presidency.




I don't think the criticism is so much that Afghanistan could be fixed, or that Biden created the mess there. The fail is that this Administration and the Pentagon did a terrible job of planning the timeline for exit, for protecting/extricating those Afghans who had been on our side and assisting us. The Taliban have scrounged up THOUSANDS of US military weapons in the last few days because our soldiers had to run in retreat. Humvees, heavy armored vehicles, assault aircraft, and guns, guns, guns, guns, guns. All full auto, with supporting ammo supplies. Hooray.

Taliban seizing a lot of the American weapons in #Afghanistan pic.twitter.com/XsQ5am5AY6— Asaad Sam Hanna (@AsaadHannaa) August 14, 2021








Oh gosh.Looks like the Afghan air force did not disable a single aircraft at Mazar-e Sharif air base, before fleeing the area ...#Afghanistan pic.twitter.com/rSfmFf22Re— Julian Röpcke🇺🇦 (@JulianRoepcke) August 15, 2021


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It has not been confirmed that COVID originated in a lab, let alone that it was artificially created. Trump's initial response to the virus was "Don't worry about it, it's like the flu, don't wear a mask, make fun of anyone who wears a mask, maybe ingesting bleach will work," etc. We do not have "open borders." I never said what was happening in Afghanistan wasn't volatile or upsetting, but they aren't justification for staying in the country, and your own messiah says he would have left even earlier.
> 
> By no objective metric I'm aware of can the Biden administration be considered a mess. The situation in Afghanistan has less to do with Biden and more to do with the preceding 20 years. We have no business staying there, unless the plan is to stay there forever.
> 
> ...



Your only metric for bigotry is not subscribing to whatever far left nonsense you are on in any given week.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Your only metric for bigotry is not subscribing to whatever far left nonsense you are on in any given week.


If a person supports a politician who is demonstrably anti-LGBT (see my post above for how), then support for that politician is anti-LGBT. Sometimes, it's just that simple.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If a person supports a politician who is demonstrably anti-LGBT (see my post above for how), then support for that politician is anti-LGBT. Sometimes, it's just that simple.



Uh hu...

*Axelrod: Obama Misled Nation When He Opposed Gay Marriage In 2008*


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

WE DID IT JOE
The Taliban are going door to door making it known all girls over the age of 15 will be assigned a husband. (7/) https://t.co/Q5Y84AoXI7— Judah Waxelbaum (@JudahWaxelbaum) August 15, 2021


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It has not been confirmed that COVID originated in a lab, let alone that it was artificially created. Trump's initial response to the virus was "Don't worry about it, it's like the flu, don't wear a mask, make fun of anyone who wears a mask, maybe ingesting bleach will work," etc. We do not have "open borders." I never said what was happening in Afghanistan wasn't volatile or upsetting, but they aren't justification for staying in the country, and your own messiah says he would have left even earlier.
> 
> By no objective metric I'm aware of can the Biden administration be considered a mess. The situation in Afghanistan has less to do with Biden and more to do with the preceding 20 years. We have no business staying there, unless the plan is to stay there forever.
> 
> ...



For one, Trump is not my Messiah, that title belongs to Jesus the son of God. As i said earlier, im not a Trump fan, but we didnt have such big problems like this for 4 years.

I've seen on the news that there IS a particular way that it did escaped from a lab, since they are mentioning now that patient "Zero" was a lab worker from China. The West asked China to allowe them to do some testing to clarify this and China refused, wonder why.

Bush together with that Bliar guy made a whole mess of the middle east, on that one i agree. But do you honestly think that nothing would've happened if the US didn't go there? Even before that, havent you read about the training camps used in Afghanistan to attack US soil? We still would be dealing with extremist.

Trump made a coordinated deal with them, allowing the safety and retreat of citizens as other non citizens from Afghanistan. That deal is broken and they in no way will honor that deal. It could have been done in a very different way, now there are people trapped there due to Joe horrible bad decision.

We all can agree no one wanted a war, to send soldiers there but it happened sadly, and the least the US couldve done was to make the transition favorable than the whole thin can garbage we are in now. It will be coming though times, since those people have seen now how weak Biden is. I pray for the safety of the good people in the world and the people who are going to suffer badly under this whole mess overthere.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Uh hu...
> 
> *Axelrod: Obama Misled Nation When He Opposed Gay Marriage In 2008*


Literally what does this have to do with anything we are talking about? This is desperate, even for you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Literally what does this have to do with anything we are talking about? This is desperate, even for you.



Literally what does you continually calling everyone a homophobic bigot who doesn't subscribe to your far left nonsense have to do with Biden's arming of the Taliban and humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan have to do with the topic?

Thanks for stopping your derailment.


----------



## gene0915 (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Your only metric for bigotry is not subscribing to whatever far left nonsense you are on in any given week.



Give up on lacisu! He's about as far left as you can possibly get. He guzzles down whatever he is fed from the media and parrots it here.

Hey lacius, care to explain what the Biden regime is doing regarding the southern border and COVID?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bi...on-for-letting-unvaccinated-migrants-into-u-s

.....or are you too busy doing mental gymnastics defending Hunter Biden and his LATEST screw up with a 2nd laptop and a Russian hooker? 

....or too busy defending Obama and his party (with no social distancing and ignoring the CDC's guidelines for masking up even if you're vax'd)?

lacius is just a hardcore troll. NO WAY somebody can be this stupid. I mean, you can only ignore logic and reality for so long before you have to admit you're just yanking peoples chains.

PS lacius, don't think I forgot about you in the COVID thread. Working on a nice post for you!    lulz!


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> For one, Trump is not my Messiah, that title belongs to Jesus the son of God. As i said earlier, im not a Trump fan, but we didnt have such big problems like this for 4 years.
> 
> I've seen on the news that there IS a particular way that it did escaped from a lab, since they are mentioning now that patient "Zero" was a lab worker from China. The West asked China to allowe them to do some testing to clarify this and China refused, wonder why.
> 
> ...


Are we talking about the deal that resulted in approximately 5,000 Taliban members being freed from prison, including the man who is likely to become the new leader in Afghanistan? Oof.



jimbo13 said:


> Literally what does you continually calling everyone a homophobic bigot who doesn't subscribe to your far left nonsense have to do with Biden's arming of the Taliban and humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan have to do with the topic?
> 
> Thanks for stopping your derailment.


I didn't bring up LGBT people, and I didn't make the claim that a tweet in support of LGBT was at all relevant or meaningful to the conversation about Afghanistan.


----------



## titan_tim (Aug 16, 2021)

Seems like the Taliban has taken over Kabul now. For them to be able to take over the country THAT quickly really shows that it was an unwinnable situation. 

For the past four US presidencies, it really was playing hot potato until they fully pulled out. 

Going forward, I can see how it's going to be a shit-show when it comes to extremists and destabilizing Pakistan. Also China is licking their greedy lips at the prospect of sucking up to the Taliban. But to this day, I still don't know why so many countries have wanted to take over that area.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I didn't bring up LGBT people, and I didn't make the claim that a tweet in support of LGBT was at all relevant or meaningful to the conversation about Afghanistan.



Of course you didn't you were to busy supporting virtue signaling to realize that wreck-less antagonistic tweet from our Diplomats could lead to embassy employees being summarily executed.

*Snip!*


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Are we talking about the deal that resulted in approximately 5,000 Taliban members being freed from prison, including the man who is likely to become the new leader in Afghanistan? Oof.
> 
> 
> I didn't bring up LGBT people, and I didn't make the claim that a tweet in support of LGBT was at all relevant or meaningful to the conversation about Afghanistan.



Are you forgetting the part were Trump would do anything to keep extremist away? Doesnt the name Soleimani ring a bell? He made  a deal and let a few loose, but in the end he wouldve taken care of that. Wouldn't suprise me that he would do the same to the guy in charge now as he did to Soleimani. Do you honestly think that those guys would do the same thing they are doing now of Trump was still in charge? The answer is no! He Wouldn't hesistate to drone bomb the lot.

Biden is weak unfortunately and now this mistake will cost casualties and will trigger an effect telling extremist that he will not do anything.

It Isn't a day and the barbarism are starting. Public executions going on and young girls being forced to do what they want.

Tell me, during the 4 years that Trump was president, did any of this happen? We are in a big cluster soup mess, courtesy of speedy Joe. Even one of his most highest general told not to make that decision, he ignored it.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Are you forgetting the part were Trump would do anything to keep extremist away? Doesnt the name Soleimani ring a bell? He made  a deal and let a few loose, but in the end he wouldve taken care of that. Wouldn't suprise me that he would do the same to the guy in charge now as he did to Soleimani. Do you honestly think that those guys would do the same thing they are doing now of Trump was still in charge? The answer is no! He Wouldn't hesistate to drone bomb the lot.


What does this have to do with what I said about Afghanistan?



DoubleDate said:


> Biden is weak unfortunately and now this mistake will cost casualties and will trigger an effect telling extremist that he will not do anything.


Are you saying we should have stayed in Afghanistan forever? If 20 years of military action in Afghanistan could be undone in this small amount of time, what is the point?



DoubleDate said:


> Tell me, during the 4 years that Trump was president, did any of this happen? We are in a big cluster soup mess, courtesy of speedy Joe. Even one of his most highest general told not to make that decision, he ignored it.


Military action in Afghanistan increased under Trump. Drone strikes increased drastically under Trump. Civilian causalities increased under Trump. Bad deals that empowered that Taliban and in part led to what we are dealing with today happened under Trump.



jimbo13 said:


> Of course you didn't you were to busy supporting virtue signaling to realize that wreck-less antagonistic tweet from our Diplomats could lead to embassy employees being summarily executed.


Let me know when you can provide any evidence that the tweet was anything other than innocuous. You also seem to be arguing that the United States should stifle its values regarding civil rights. Oof.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Let me know when you can provide any evidence that the tweet was anything other than innocuous.



Let me know when Afghanistan has legalized homosexuality and death is not on the table for promoting homosexuality, IMO your bigotry is just so intense you don't think Afghani's can manage twitter.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> your bigotry is just so intense you don't think Afghani's can manage twitter.


I never once said nor implied that. Once again, we clearly aren't getting a good-faith effort from you. I audibly laughed at the attempt at an "I know you are, but what am I" approach though.

Edit: If it wasn't clear, whether or not Afghanistan has "legalized homosexuality" is irrelevant to any of my points.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I never once said nor implied that. Once again, we clearly aren't getting a good-faith effort from you. I audibly laughed at the attempt at an "I know you are, but what am I" approach though.



Good faith wouldn't be denying a simple fact that promoting homosexuality can get innocent people killed in Afghanistan.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Good faith wouldn't be denying a simple fact that promoting homosexuality can get innocent people killed in Afghanistan.


I'd like to see your evidence that a tweet had any substantive consequences. I'd like to hear your rationale for why we should be militarily occupying a country that would respond negatively to an innocuous tweet in support of LGBT people. I'd like to hear your rationale for when it's ever appropriate to stifle our values regarding human rights. I'd like to hear how any of this is relevant to the topic of this thread.

Sadly, I don't expect to get any substantive responses to any of these requests.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Are you forgetting the part were Trump would do anything to keep extremist away?


Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish.  Trump _invited the Taliban to Camp David_ to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan.  If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st.  Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same.  A _lot_ of people predicted this _before_ we entered Afghanistan.

The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades.  Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban.  And guess what?  The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq.  Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism.  That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system.  Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I'd like to see your evidence that a tweet had any substantive consequences. I'd like to hear your rationale for why we should be militarily occupying a country that would respond negatively to an innocuous tweet in support of LGBT people. I'd like to hear your rationale for when it's ever appropriate to stifle our values regarding human rights. I'd like to hear how any of this is relevant to the topic of this thread.
> 
> Sadly, I don't expect to get any substantive responses to any of these requests.




We shouldn't be occupying Afghanistan but we are. That doesn't give license to our diplomats to make public official statements that they should be fully aware that can and will antagonize the local populace.

Your virtue signaling nonsense is not worth risking the lives of peoples children.

It's entirely bigoted and racist to live in politically correct denial of culture of Afghanistan.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> We shouldn't be occupying Afghanistan but we are. That doesn't give license to our diplomats to make public official statements that they should be fully aware that can and will antagonize the local populace.
> 
> Your virtue signaling nonsense is not worth risking the lives of peoples children.


If you are going to argue it put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If you are going to argue it put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.



Promotion and engagement of homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Afghanistan, are you claiming they are liars?

Ask them, "For real bruh?"


----------



## titan_tim (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish.  Trump _invited the Taliban to Camp David_ to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan.  If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st.  Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same.  A _lot_ of people predicted this _before_ we entered Afghanistan.
> 
> The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades.  Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban.  And guess what?  The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq.  Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism.  That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system.  Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.



This times 1000.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Promotion and engagement of homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Afghanistan, are you claiming they are liars?


You do know that an embassy is subject to the laws of the country it represents, right?

If you are going to argue the tweet put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish.  Trump _invited the Taliban to Camp David_ to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan.  If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st.  Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same.  A _lot_ of people predicted this _before_ we entered Afghanistan.
> 
> The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades.  Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban.  And guess what?  The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq.  Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism.  That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system.  Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.



And Fuck Biden, Clinton & Obama to as everyone of them voted for entry in to Afghanistan and now Biden has created a humanitarian disaster by scuttling Trumps progress who was the only President in any of our lives who did not engage us in a new conflict.



Lacius said:


> You do know that an embassy is subject to the laws of the country it represents, right?
> 
> If you are going to argue the tweet put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.



I am done with racist bigots who want to deny Afghanistan's cultural opposition to homosexuality, you need to demonstrate your sober and live in reality.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> And Fuck Biden, Clinton & Obama to as everyone of them voted for entry in to Afghanistan and now Biden has created a humanitarian disaster by scuttling Trumps progress who was the only President in any of our lives who did not engage us in a new conflict.


Trump was in favor of going into both Afghanistan and Iraq during the GWB administration.  If you thought he made any "progress" by negotiating with terrorists, then you should be happy to see the Taliban re-taking the country.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish.  Trump _invited the Taliban to Camp David_ to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan.  If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st.  Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same.  A _lot_ of people predicted this _before_ we entered Afghanistan.
> 
> The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades.  Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban.  And guess what?  The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq.  Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism.  That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system.  Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.



I for sure do absolutely not agree with the invasion! It was a very bad idea, i do agree with that.

The point is now how things are. Trump did try to negociate with them to avoid bloodshed, to avoid murdering everything that they see in sight. If Biden would have done the withdrawal in a way that people could flee the country, none of this mess we are in now wouldve happened. They gave Biden time, they said to get out or we will within 2 weeks take over, Biden ignored it and told everyone its very unlikely that they would do that and guess what, his words will haunt him. They agreed to hand everything to the Afghan government, that was the deal. Nappy Joe ignored everything and got out leaving so many people that will now endure very hard time under barbaric circumstances.

If Biden just didnt understimate things, no civilians would be in the situation they are in now. Its a complete cluster failure on Bidens department.

I cannot wrap my mind why people keep defending this administration.

Sure, Trump bomb droned a few target but nothing of the sort what is happening now would've happened under his watch.

This couldve been avoided, the extremist were prepared to let everyone go, Biden messed up big time.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You do know that an embassy is subject to the laws of the country it represents, right?
> 
> If you are going to argue the tweet put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.


You make me laugh. lol. I really wish you'd white knight and show your pride in Afghanistan for the American people and run around there with the LGBT flag and tweet to the world every 5 mins and see how long that lasts since you seem to think Americans who put themselves in harm's way are invincible by what you say with no concern of people's children's and or lives. I've noted before, just because we have a building in a big nation of THEIR'S, it doesn't mean shit. They're savages over there and they will kill, as they have.
Jimbo was stating with the embassy doing the LGBT flag as a tweet was a poor move of priorities when they're trying to get out of a nation safely/timely and when Afghanistan / Taliban already hates Americans as it is. Virtue signaling and anything of that sort shouldn't mean shit when you're trying to safely get out of a country that hates you, since you've already abandoned the thought of staying and holding your ground, so what's the point in trying to put yourself in harm's way? Do you intentionally piss off a person with a gun who's tempted to kill you by insulting them? Cause that's basically what they were doing by disrespecting them and their beliefs just because we're American. That's entitlement and that shit will get people killed.
Again, it was in their country, these select people weren't on actual American soil- just a building in Afghanistan with our own rules and our own ROE. Taliban don't give a shit about the US's ROE and will gladly do anything to savagely murder just because you're American or you showed something they abhor like the LGBT flag.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Trump did try to negociate with them to avoid bloodshed, to avoid murdering everything that they see in sight.


His negotiations amounted to nothing.  If Trump had been re-elected and we had withdrawn by May 1st, the Taliban would've had total control of the country on May 1st.  They would've avoided targeting evacuating Americans, just as they're doing now, and the Afghani puppet government/military would've offered no resistance to their advance, just as they're doing now.



DoubleDate said:


> I cannot wrap my mind why people keep defending this administration.


Getting out of Afghanistan is the right thing to do, that's why it's an easy action to defend.  No prior administration would have been any more prepared for the dominoes to fall so quickly, because the military lied to all of them.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> And Fuck Biden, Clinton & Obama to as everyone of them voted for entry in to Afghanistan and now Biden has created a humanitarian disaster by scuttling Trumps progress who was the only President in any of our lives who did not engage us in a new conflict.


The Authorization for Use of Military Force of 2001 was in direct response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks and specifically targeted those responsible. The votes for this authorization weren't necessarily bad. However, this broad power has been used by presidents since then for much more than it was intended. Bush, Obama, and Trump are responsible for the conditions in Afghanistan and the fact that we were still there up until this point. Trump empowered the Taliban before leaving office (see my previous post on the topic), which probably had more to do with what we are seeing in Afghanistan than anything else after Biden announced his intention to rightfully withdraw.

As I've said throughout this thread and others, Trump escalated pre-existing military conflicts, he escalated the use of drone strikes, civilian causalities increased significantly under Trump, and he empowered the Taliban with bad deals before leaving office.

Until recently, Trump said he should get credit for leaving Afghanistan (despite not actually doing it while in office), and he argued what was bad about Biden's exit was that it wasn't soon enough. Your gaslighting isn't going to work.



jimbo13 said:


> I am done with racist bigots who want to deny Afghanistan's cultural opposition to homosexuality.


I never denied that homophobia doesn't exist in the Middle East. In fact, I've acknowledged it several times.



jimbo13 said:


> you need to demonstrate your sober and live in reality.


Lol at your deflections after being called out on your false claim that a tweet by the US embassy acknowledging LGBT pride is punishable by death. Why am I not surprised that you wouldn't address the point?



DoubleDate said:


> The point is now how things are. Trump did try to negociate with them to avoid bloodshed, to avoid murdering everything that they see in sight.


You mean when he made a deal that, among other things, empowered the Taliban to be what they are now and freed 5,000 Taliban members, including the man who is likely to take control of Afghanistan?



DoubleDate said:


> If Biden would have done the withdrawal in a way that people could flee the country, none of this mess we are in now wouldve happened.


What do you think has been happening over the past few months? Also, Trump criticized Biden for his withdrawal taking too long. Trump said he would have done it earlier and in a more expedited fashion. Oof.



DoubleDate said:


> They agreed to hand everything to the Afghan government, that was the deal


If the Afghanistan government wasn't prepared after 20 years, what's the point of staying if it isn't going to be forever?



DoubleDate said:


> Its a complete cluster failure on Bidens department.


Let's be clear that it's a failure of every presidency before Biden since the war started, especially the Bush presidency (when the war started) and the Trump presidency (which empowered the Taliban). It isn't Biden's fault that the war in Afghanistan was an American failure. That's like blaming Nixon for the end of the Vietnam War or Obama for the end of the Iraq War.



DoubleDate said:


> I cannot wrap my mind why people keep defending this administration.


Nobody is arguing that the situation in Afghanistan isn't volatile or unfortunate, but it was an American involvement that needed to end ASAP. What's happening in Afghanistan now should demonstrate this more than anything else.



DoubleDate said:


> Sure, Trump bomb droned a few target but nothing of the sort what is happening now would've happened under his watch.


That's because Trump was content with escalating the military conflict, staying in Afghanistan indefinitely, and bending over backwards for the Taliban.



DoubleDate said:


> This couldve been avoided, the extremist were prepared to let everyone go, Biden messed up big time.


This only could have been avoided if we stayed in Afghanistan indefinitely.



ChronoTrig said:


> I really wish you'd white knight and show your pride in Afghanistan for the American people and run around there with the LGBT flag and tweet to the world every 5 mins and see how long that lasts since you seem to think Americans who put themselves in harm's way are invincible by what you say with no concern of people's children's and or lives. I've noted before, just because we have a building in a big nation of THEIR'S, it doesn't mean shit.


You and I both know that it's physically dangerous to run up and down the streets there with a pride flag. That wasn't what we were talking about.



ChronoTrig said:


> They're savages over there


Yikes.



ChronoTrig said:


> Jimbo was stating with the embassy doing the LGBT flag as a tweet was a poor move of priorities when they're trying to get out of a nation safely/timely and when Afghanistan / Taliban already hates Americans as it is. Virtue signaling and anything of that sort shouldn't mean shit when you're trying to safely get out of a country that hates you, since you've already abandoned the thought of staying and holding your ground, so what's the point in trying to put yourself in harm's way? Do you intentionally piss off a person with a gun who's tempted to kill you by insulting them? Cause that's basically what they were doing by disrespecting them and their beliefs just because we're American. That's entitlement and that shit will get people killed.


It needs to be demonstrated that this tweet had any consequence of significance, or plausible could have.



ChronoTrig said:


> Again, it was in their country, these select people weren't on actual American soil- just a building in Afghanistan with our own rules and our own ROE. Taliban don't give a shit about the US's ROE and will gladly do anything to savagely murder just because you're American or you showed something they abhor like the LGBT flag.


If true, all the more reason to leave ASAP.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Powerful 
Last US chopper leaves Kabul embassy in Afghanistan pic.twitter.com/Pp62EkM2LA— Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) August 15, 2021


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> His negotiations amounted to nothing.  If Trump had been re-elected and we had withdrawn by May 1st, the Taliban would've had total control of the country on May 1st.  They would've avoided targeting evacuating Americans, just as they're doing now, and the Afghani puppet government/military would've offered no resistance to their advance, just as they're doing now.
> 
> 
> Getting out of Afghanistan is the right thing to do, that's why it's an easy action to defend.  No prior administration would have been any more prepared for the dominoes to fall so quickly, because the military lied to all of them.



"Getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do" Those words will come back to you when they are done with Afghanistan and start making plans to hurt the west. Don't think that they will stop there, this just added more fuel to the minds of those extremist. Now they have the mind that they can do anything since weaky Joe retreated without doing anything. Like i said earlier, it will now become a brewing ground for extremist. The ones that fled Syria, Iraq will go there now. Dont be that naïeve and think that it will stop there.

People are so blind that cant see the danger the world is getting into.

No, They wouldn't get control of the country when Trump was in power. they would've done that during Trumps presidency. You see the difference there? They were negotiating, then Joe trew everything in the bin and now the dont give a flying bat. They defnitely wouldnt have dared to to that under Trumps command. People need to accept that Biden abandoned the whole Afghanistan.

So answer me this, why didnt they take Afghanistan over when Trump was the leading president? They knew very well that Trump would take action.

If you keep defending Biden, then catch a plane and go to Afghanistan, lets see how "Welcome" you will be there. You will cry your pants out. USA had a chance to retreat in a good way and well Biden decision put that chance away.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> "Getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do" Those words will come back to you when they are done with Afghanistan and start making plans to hurt the west. Don't think that they will stop there, this just added more fuel to the minds of those extremist. Now they have the mind that they can do anything since weaky Joe retreated without doing anything. Like i said earlier, it will now become a brewing ground for extremist. The ones that fled Syria, Iraq will go there now. Dont be that naïeve and think that it will stop there.
> 
> People are so blind that cant see the danger the world is getting into.
> 
> ...


The alternative to leaving was staying indefinitely. Should we have done the same with Vietnam and Iraq? (your talking points are similar to what people said to leaving both of those countries)


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> he escalated the use of drone strikes



Entirely bullshit, most drone strikes are covert and classified.   No way to quantify who is ahead.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> We shouldn't be occupying Afghanistan but we are. That doesn't give license to our diplomats to make public official statements that they should be fully aware that can and will antagonize the local populace.
> 
> Your virtue signaling nonsense is not worth risking the lives of peoples children.
> 
> It's entirely bigoted and racist to live in politically correct denial of culture of Afghanistan.



Human rights transcend religious freedoms. Sorry, Jimbo, but Jesus's dad can't give you a hall pass for wanting slaves, and stoning "sinners" and other such violence should absolutely be shunned by a civilized society.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Entirely bullshit, most drone strikes are covert and classified.   No way to quantify who is ahead.


We have a lot of records regarding drone strikes and civilian casualties, thanks in large part to open records lawsuits from organizations like the ACLU. We can absolutely quantify these things.

Edit: Like with a lot of your posts, I recommend some basic fact-checking instead of just going with just what feels right.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We have a lot of records regarding drone strikes and civilian casualties, thanks in large part to open records lawsuits from organizations like the ACLU. We can absolutely quantify these things.
> 
> Edit: Like with a lot of your posts, I recommend some basic fact-checking instead of just going with just what feels right.



I did because I was under the impression Obomber was ahead.   "lot of stuff from far left ACLU they got" is not fact checking.  My source fairly stated that vast majority are not publicly disclosed and classified.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I did because I was under the impression Obomber was ahead.   "lot of stuff from far left ACLU they got" is not fact checking.  My source fairly stated that vast majority are not publicly disclosed and classified.


You care to share that source, comrade? Not that it really matters, considering the root of the conversation. I'm curious, has any blue-aid drinker shared a non-twitter non-fox source in this thread yet?


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The alternative to leaving was staying indefinitely. Should we have done the same with Vietnam and Iraq? (your talking points are similar to what people said to leaving both of those countries)



No, They didn't need to stay there permanently. All that was needed to do was to follow the plan of a favorable retreat, as i said the extremist agreed when USA was leaving that all command would be left over to the Afghan government. Joe ignored everything completely, people will now suffer due this decision.

They agreed with Trump they would not take any city, Trump even said any malicious intent would result in retailation. Joe went against everything, and now dozens of people are trapped there. The extremist did even say that they would make change for a better future. All Joe needed to do was to keep with the agreed plan to avoid mass murder.

Why do you keep defending this decision? As your are comfy posting messages in here defending such abhorrent decision, people are fearing for their lives.

Cannot wrap my mind why you keep being defendant of this whole mess. This could have been avoided if Biden wasn't that lackluster and ingnoring everything that his highest command told him to not to do.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I did because I was under the impression Obomber was ahead.   "lot of stuff from far left ACLU they got" is not fact checking.  My source fairly stated that vast majority are not publicly disclosed and classified.


In addition to there demonstrably being more drone strikes and civilian deaths under Trump (we have Obama transparency rules during his administration, open records lawsuits, and the disclosure of information by the Biden administration regarding drone strikes and the rules regarding them during the Trump administration), it was also Trump who relaxed the approval rules regarding drone strikes and revoked the policy of reporting civilian causalities as a result of drone strikes. In other words, this ambiguity you're trying to use to justify Trump's abhorrent use of force in the middle east was only because he made things more secretive by design. Oof.

I am sorry if the facts are inconvenient for you, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DoubleDate said:


> No, They didn't need to stay there permanently. All that was needed to do was to follow the plan of a favorable retreat, as i said the extremist agreed when USA was leaving that all command would be left over to the Afghan government. Joe ignored everything completely, people will now suffer due this decision.
> 
> They agreed with Trump they would not take any city, Trump even said any malicious intent would result in retailation. Joe went against everything, and now dozens of people are trapped there. The extremist did even say that they would make change for a better future. All Joe needed to do was to keep with the agreed plan to avoid mass murder.
> 
> ...


What did Biden do wrong specifically with regard to leaving Afghanistan?


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It needs to be demonstrated that this tweet had any consequence of significance, or plausible could have.
> 
> 
> If true, all the more reason to leave ASAP.



They demonstrate by killing, not by citing that the US hurt their feelings, so you won't see a tweet. Just go look at beheadings. They don't ask for ransom, they just kill. They don't want to give you time to retaliate, because they're already acting.

Not EVERYONE in Afghanistan wants war or to be controlled by the Taliban, which is why we stayed and tried to turn it into a diplomatic country. It was basically Vietnam part 2. Not really a valid point to be there. Got Sadaam in Iraq the neighboring country, yay. But the US overstayed the welcome in Afghanistan, even though they did help a lot of lives of regular citizens who wanted nothing to do with war or to be controlled / abused by random governments.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> They demonstrate by killing, not by citing that the US hurt their feelings, so you won't see a tweet. Just go look at beheadings. They don't ask for ransom, they just kill. They don't want to give you time to retaliate, because they're already acting.
> 
> Not EVERYONE in Afghanistan wants war or to be controlled by the Taliban, which is why we stayed and tried to turn it into a diplomatic country. It was basically Vietnam part 2. Not really a valid point to be there. Got Sadaam in Iraq the neighboring country, yay. But the US overstayed the welcome in Afghanistan, even though they did help a lot of lives of regular citizens who wanted nothing to do with war or to be controlled / abused by random governments.



You... do know who provided the Taliban with their initial support and turned them into the force they are today, right?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> They demonstrate by killing, not by citing that the US hurt their feelings, so you won't see a tweet. Just go look at beheadings. They don't ask for ransom, they just kill. They don't want to give you time to retaliate, because they're already acting.


There's no evidence of a significant response, nor the plausibility of a significant response, by Afghanistan to a tweet about LGBT pride, by Americans on American soil.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Entirely bullshit, most drone strikes are covert and classified.   No way to quantify who is ahead.


This 100%. People on here think they have the biggest picture as to why they know what's going on, but they have no idea what is really happening behind the scenes within the gov't. The news will feed people what the 1% wants everyone to see because $. It's why a lot of journalism can't be trusted because it has gone to shit too because anyone with a keyboard, computer and internet with a blog can be considered a journalist now.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 16, 2021)

We should've done to the Taliban what Trump did to ISIS, blow the fuckers out of existence. Problem solved!


Lacius said:


> Do you have any evidence that this tweet actually did anything of of consequence, or are you just spouting homophobic and islamophobic nonsense?


"Hello, my name is BitMasterPlus, and I have a homophobia and Islamophobia problem. Whenever I see gays or Muslims I shit my pants and go "AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH GAYS or MUSLIMS! RUN AWAY BEFORE THEY MELT OFF YOUR FLESH!!!!! HOLD ME MOMMY AM SCARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There's no evidence of a significant response, nor the plausibility of a significant response, by Afghanistan to a tweet about LGBT pride, by Americans on American soil.


You really need a response from the Taliban to say they want to kill because they saw that specific tweet? Isn't it common sense to know they already hate LGBT and to know it will only ensure they're even more "honored" to kill because you're taunting them with that on their soil?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> You really need a response from the Taliban to say they want to kill because they saw that specific tweet? Isn't it common sense to know they already hate LGBT and to know it will only ensure they're even more "honored" to kill because you're taunting them with that on their soil?


Are you arguing that the United States' broad acceptance of LGBT people isn't common knowledge?

And point of fact, a US embassy is, legally speaking, US soil. And let's not get into the logistics of where/how the internet and Twitter work.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> You really need a response from the Taliban to say they want to kill because they saw that specific tweet? Isn't it common sense to know they already hate LGBT and to know it will only ensure they're even more "honored" to kill because you're taunting them with that on their soil?



In Lacius world snopes > Common sense, history, statements of Law in Afghanistan.

IMO if peoples kids die and embassy workers are stomped to death of  because of virtue signaling as far Lacius is concerned it was a small price to pay. 

We all know he respects far left virtue signaling political assholes in a office much more than the people on the ground who will actually bare the consequences.



Lacius said:


> Are you arguing that the United States' broad acceptance of LGBT people isn't common knowledge?
> 
> And point of fact, a US embassy is, legally speaking, US soil. And let's not get into the logistics of where/how the internet and Twitter work.



Go tell that to Chris Stevens and the mobs in Benghazi who attacked our embassy over over a Youtube video.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Are you arguing that the United States' broad acceptance of LGBT people isn't common knowledge?
> 
> And point of fact, a US embassy is, legally speaking, US soil. And let's not get into the logistics of where/how the internet and Twitter work.


I've noticed you do this to a lot of people and I'm not sure if you're really just trolling people. When someone asks you something you respond with a question instead of just actually responding.
Again, go to Afghanistan, wave around the LGBT flag because you're our American hero and let us see you on the news as our martyr because it's only common sense to know you show that flag on their soil and you're a dead "person" walking.

They don't care if even on the embassy which is why I wrote out specifically before, not sure if you ignored it like when you keyword people's posts when you requote, but I'll say it again, even tho the embassy is considered American soil and we have our ROE rules-- the Taliban do not give a shit about ROE rules or "breaking laws" by destroying said building or killing people with no remorse which is why people were flown out via helicopter immediately.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> In Lacius world snopes > Common sense, history, statements of Law in Afghanistan.


I didn't mention Snopes. Also, as I mentioned in my previous post, are you arguing that the United States' broad acceptance of LGBT people isn't public knowledge?



jimbo13 said:


> IMO if peoples kids die and embassy workers are stomped to death of  because of virtue signaling as far Lacius is concerned it was a small price to pay.


I never once said nor implied this. If you had actually read my posts in good faith, you would know that my point has been that you haven't demonstrated any danger or consequences from a Twitter post acknowledging gay rights.



jimbo13 said:


> Go tell that to Chris Stevens and the mobs in Benghazi who attacked our embassy over over a Youtube video.


Last I checked, we were not talking about Benghazi. That was, literally, an entirely different circumstance. And, last I checked, there's no direct evidence that a video had anything to do with the attack.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> In Lacius world snopes > Common sense, history, statements of Law in Afghanistan.
> 
> IMO if peoples kids die and embassy workers are stomped to death of  because of virtue signaling as far Lacius is concerned it was a small price to pay.
> 
> ...


I think some of the stuff he says just to get a rise out of people. But he might as well be one of our top generals then if he's just going to look at it as a number's game for the small price to pay of some people dying just to bail out and let the country rot to save American $ in the long run.

Benghazi is exactly what I was trying to get at for evidence with people not caring about laws or US soil nonsense in their country when they're savages and want to just outright kill.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> In Lacius world snopes > Common sense, history, statements of Law in Afghanistan.
> 
> IMO if peoples kids die and embassy workers are stomped to death of  because of virtue signaling as far Lacius is concerned it was a small price to pay.
> 
> ...



This is rich, coming from the guy who bashed Cuba's citizenry and proclaimed poverty and death was justified because it is a communist nation, to say nothing of your disregard for your political rivals. Who is virtue signaling, now?



ChronoTrig said:


> I've noticed you do this to a lot of people and I'm not sure if you're really just trolling people. When someone asks you something you respond with a question instead of just actually responding.
> Again, go to Afghanistan, wave around the LGBT flag because you're our American hero and let us see you on the news as our martyr because it's only common sense to know you show that flag on their soil and you're a dead "person" walking.
> 
> They don't care if even on the embassy which is why I wrote out specifically before, not sure if you ignored it like when you keyword people's posts when you requote, but I'll say it again, even tho the embassy is considered American soil and we have our ROE rules-- the Taliban do not give a shit about ROE rules or "breaking laws" by destroying said building which is why people were flown out via helicopter immediately.



Again, YOU DO KNOW WHO SUPPORTED THE TALIBAN AND BROUGHT THEM INTO PROMINENCE AND WHY THEY HATE AMERICA, RIGHT?! Seriously...

As far as LGBT rights in Afghanistan goes, I guess I'm late to this party and reading older posts hasn't clarified this for me. Are you arguing that we should have stayed, colonized the place outright, and enforced tolerance? I want to be sure I have a good read on your stance.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> I've noticed you do this to a lot of people and I'm not sure if you're really just trolling people. When someone asks you something you respond with a question instead of just actually responding.
> Again, go to Afghanistan, wave around the LGBT flag because you're our American hero and let us see you on the news as our martyr because it's only common sense to know you show that flag on their soil and you're a dead "person" walking.
> 
> They don't care if even on the embassy which is why I wrote out specifically before, not sure if you ignored it like when you keyword people's posts when you requote, but I'll say it again, even tho the embassy is considered American soil and we have our ROE rules-- the Taliban do not give a shit about ROE rules or "breaking laws" by destroying said building or killing people with no remorse which is why people were flown out via helicopter immediately.


I responded to your question directly. And sometimes, a second question gets to the point of the bad argument that is being made by the initial post.

I've already addressed the comment about waving the flag around in-person, and it isn't what's being discussed.

Again, if the argument is that a tweet did anything to cause damage, or was even likely to cause damage, that needs to be demonstrated.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ChronoTrig said:


> I think some of the stuff he says just to get a rise out of people. But he might as well be one of our top generals then if he's just going to look at it as a number's game for the small price to pay of some people dying just to bail out and let the country rot to save American $ in the long run.
> 
> Benghazi is exactly what I was trying to get at for evidence with people not caring about laws or US soil nonsense in their country when they're savages and want to just outright kill.


I don't think anyone can reasonably say my posts are meant to get a rise out of anyone, troll, etc.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> This is rich, coming from the guy who bashed Cuba's citizenry and proclaimed poverty and death was justified because it is a communist nation, to say nothing of your disregard for your political rivals. Who is virtue signaling, now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're lovely  And yes, I do. The late 80's, very early 90's Desert storm / gulf war to you.

And yes, I'm saying if they wanted to display that flag then they damn well better have a reason if they know it's going to invoke a response when they're about to up and leave.  And my stance is yes, they should've stayed and held their ground especially if they want to continue American acts. Under Biden they could have totally scrapped Trump's idea of leaving; I don't know why no one is ever bringing that up? Just blaming trump for making a plan to leave and then blaming Biden for this mess. I can't stand either President/former president.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> "Getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do" Those words will come back to you when they are done with Afghanistan and start making plans to hurt the west. Don't think that they will stop there, this just added more fuel to the minds of those extremist. Now they have the mind that they can do anything since weaky Joe retreated without doing anything. Like i said earlier, it will now become a brewing ground for extremist.


Why do you think the Taliban are still around, even thriving after twenty years of war in Afghanistan?  All we managed to accomplish there with all the slaughter was making more people sympathetic to their cause.  At this point, there are teenagers joining up with the Taliban who weren't even born yet on 9/11.

That said, I'm not worried about an attack on American soil so long as we have competent leadership.  Our military spending is insane, and GWB had every opportunity to prevent the attacks on 9/11.  Not to mention Afghanistan had nothing to do with those attacks.



DoubleDate said:


> No, They wouldn't get control of the country when Trump was in power. they would've done that during Trumps presidency. You see the difference there? They were negotiating, then Joe trew everything in the bin and now the dont give a flying bat. They defnitely wouldnt have dared to to that under Trumps command. People need to accept that Biden abandoned the whole Afghanistan.
> 
> So answer me this, why didnt they take Afghanistan over when Trump was the leading president? They knew very well that Trump would take action.


The deal Trump made with the Taliban was to have all our troops withdrawn by May 1st.  In other words, the deal was to hand total control of Afghanistan to them by that date.  Trump wouldn't have taken any action against them during evacuation so long as they didn't target evacuating Americans.  That's exactly how Biden is handling things now.  Nobody has the magic power to make the Afghani government/military stand up for itself if they don't want to, and they clearly didn't want to.


----------



## Viri (Aug 16, 2021)

I'm sure our tax payer money, that funded a lot of the equipment that the Taliban got a hold of, will make use of it, to rule with an iron fist. I heard they're already going door to door, and getting their fighters some brides!


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> I think some of the stuff he says just to get a rise out of people. But he might as well be one of our top generals then if he's just going to look at it as a number's game for the small price to pay of some people dying just to bail out and let the country rot to save American $ in the long run.
> 
> Benghazi is exactly what I was trying to get at for evidence with people not caring about laws or US soil nonsense in their country when they're savages and want to just outright kill.



I think he is such a partisan hack there is nothing he wont do to try to justify anything with a L next to it, including feigning outright ignorance of the attitude towards homosexuality in Afghanistan.

Pretty sure he just has a template he fills in the nonsense in with.

Snopes says ____________.   It is a demonstrable fact that __________ this indicates Biden is not at fault with ____% certainty.  This is was debunked by ____________.   You are a ________ (-ist / -phobe).


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I responded to your question directly. And sometimes, a second question gets to the point of the bad argument that is being made by the initial post.
> 
> I've already addressed the comment about waving the flag around in-person, and it isn't what's being discussed.
> 
> ...


It's all a build up to cause more death/pain. When 9/11 happened, they didn't bring up every single act that infuriated them over time. It was a build up of anger. Like someone continually name calling you time and time again in the hallway as they pass you every day. You'll only name the big moments and not the minute moments that still cause abrasion.

And to refer your USA common knowledge acceptance of LGBT. Just because it was a US Embassy in Afghanistan doesn't mean wave the flag of a country / people that hate that, kill them, as Jimbo pointed out multiple times (stoned to death, illegal to be gay there, etc) but still continues to circle back as a talking point because you're funny like that.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> It's all a build up to cause more death/pain. When 9/11 happened, they didn't bring up every single act that infuriated them over time. It was a build up of anger. Like someone continually name calling you time and time again in the hallway as they pass you every day. You'll only name the big moments and not the minute moments that still cause abrasion.
> 
> And to refer your USA common knowledge acceptance of LGBT. Just because it was a US Embassy in Afghanistan doesn't mean wave the flag of a country / people that hate that, kill them, as Jimbo pointed out multiple times (stoned to death, illegal to be gay there, etc) but still continues to circle back as a talking point because you're funny like that.


We're talking about a tweet that appeared to have zero consequences.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I think he is such a partisan hack there is nothing he wont do to try to justify anything with a L next to it, including feigning outright ignorance of the attitude towards homosexuality in Afghanistan.
> 
> Pretty sure he just has a template he feels in the nonsense in with.
> 
> Snopes says ____________.   It is a demonstrable fact that __________ this indicates Biden is not at fault with ____% certainty.  This is was debunked by ____________.   You are a ________ (-ist / -phobe).


Sadly, it seems so. I see both sides republican/democrat so I'm not hard left or hard right, but a lot of this stuff can be said with realism and terms of leadership in power and also having not been stuck behind a keyboard/computer all my life and seeing the shit in place makes you go, hmm, maybe this is what's really happening and not some fairytale. People are actually dying for their beliefs and there isn't a damn thing that can be done. So many Americans have such entitlement because of so many protections that if they were to go over to one of these countries and start running their mouths or doing what they feel is right they would most likely die pretty quickly because someone was mad at them for believing that. Almost like the left gets pissed at the right for having different beliefs in them and them wanting them to be hung for it. "if you don't believe in the movement BLM, then you're racist". I laughed at your book pic you posted of "you're racist then". It's the quick go-to.
The bombing of the country if Trump was in power was good, because people feared him in a good way. They respected him. He wasn't a tyrant like Saddam where he ruled with an ironfist. He just said as it was. You do this, this will happen; respect the line.
Problem is people think if you're nice and ignore things people will take advantage of that opportunity to try and overthrow / overcome and a lot of people are thinking too naive of people that they wouldn't do that (hence the fairytale world). Biden ignoring things is incredibly bad for the US as a country to continue to be known as a super power and respected. You'll start seeing countries trying to take advantage and people will most likely die behind the scenes that the ACLU doesn't know about because it's off the books and apart of national security.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We're talking about a tweet that appeared to have zero consequences.


Jimbo and ChronoTrig don't seem to realize that all they're doing is lending an undeserved sense of importance to Twitter as a platform.  I guarantee you that almost nobody in Afghanistan even saw the tweet that they've got their panties in a bunch over...there are much more pressing matters to deal with at the moment.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We're talking about a tweet that appeared to have zero consequences.


Zero consequences to you who is tolerant and completely ok with LGBT. Please interview the Taliban their stance and ask how much it pisses them off. Like I said, bring up big moments, but stuff like that is also in the back of the mind and increases rage; doesn't need to be said. I don't know in what other way to try and spell it out for you so it doesn't seem you're trolling for multiple responses or to understand it.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I think he is such a partisan hack there is nothing he wont do to try to justify anything with a L next to it, including feigning outright ignorance of the attitude towards homosexuality in Afghanistan.
> 
> Pretty sure he just has a template he fills in the nonsense in with.
> 
> Snopes says ____________.   It is a demonstrable fact that __________ this indicates Biden is not at fault with ____% certainty.  This is was debunked by ____________.   You are a ________ (-ist / -phobe).



I said nothing about Snopes.
I'm on record in this thread alone condemning Obama's military force in Afghanistan, and that's just one example of when I've criticized something "with an L next to it."
I haven't feigned ignorance about attitudes against LGBT people in Afghanistan. Numerous times in this thread, I've acknowledged them.
Next time you talk about me, have the courage to tag me.
I'm at least glad to see that you're not even pretending to have a conversation in good faith. You're at least putting it out there that one of us is a political hack, and it isn't me.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Jimbo and ChronoTrig don't seem to realize that all they're doing is lending an undeserved sense of importance to Twitter as a platform.  I guarantee you that almost nobody in Afghanistan even saw the tweet that they've got their panties in a bunch over...there are much more pressing matters to deal with at the moment.


They're also providing reason after reason for the US to withdraw from the region.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I said nothing about Snopes.
> I'm on record in this thread alone condemning Obama's military force in Afghanistan, and that's just one example of when I've criticized something "with an L next to it."
> I haven't feigned ignorance about attitudes against LGBT people in Afghanistan. Numerous times in this thread, I've acknowledged them.
> Next time you talk about me, have the courage to tag me.
> ...


If you had people attacking your city over and over and you were so war torn. someone came along and protected you; would you not want them to stay even if the rest of the country was shit?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> Zero consequences to you who is tolerant and completely ok with LGBT. Please interview the Taliban their stance and ask how much it pisses them off. Like I said, bring up big moments, but stuff like that is also in the back of the mind and increases rage; doesn't need to be said. I don't know in what other way to try and spell it out for you so it doesn't seem you're trolling for multiple responses or to understand it.


If you're going to claim there were consequences of any kind, you need to demonstrate it.

Also, just because you're easily frustrated when someone uses facts doesn't mean they are trolling. I suggest you learn the difference.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> Please interview the Taliban their stance and ask how much it pisses them off.


Why would we/should we care about the Taliban's opinion on anything?  The very existence of the USA pisses them off.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Jimbo and ChronoTrig don't seem to realize that all they're doing is lending an undeserved sense of importance to Twitter as a platform.  I guarantee you that almost nobody in Afghanistan even saw the tweet that they've got their panties in a bunch over...there are much more pressing matters to deal with at the moment.


Can you source that guarantee?  I'm not trying to have a pissing contest with you, but they also have twitter over there too and I'm sure they're watching whatever happens in their region and especially anything American.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> Why would we/should we care about the Taliban's opinion on anything?  The very existence of the USA pisses them off.


Well, because they'll kill you on their soil without a doubt lol. And you give them more reason and they'll try even harder to do it. Lead-up to 9/11. I liked your post cause yes, they do absolutely hate Americans even existing.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> If you had people attacking your city over and over and you were so war torn. someone came along and protected you; would you not want them to stay even if the rest of the country was shit?


Are you trying to argue that the people of Afghanistan wanted the US to stay, or are you arguing that the people of Afghanistan wanted so little for the US to stay that a single tweet had the potential to set them off? I'm confused.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



ChronoTrig said:


> Can you source that guarantee?  I'm not trying to have a pissing contest with you, but they also have twitter over there too and I'm sure they're watching whatever happens in their region and especially anything American.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


I think it was this kind of thinking that led the former president to negotiate with the Taliban, free their prisoners, empower them, etc. That worked out so well for us.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Are you trying to argue that the people of Afghanistan wanted the US to stay, or are you arguing that the people of Afghanistan wanted so little for the US to stay that a single tweet had the potential to set them off? I'm confused.


lol now you're trolling, bud.
Who took over the country that is making the Afghanny people flee right now?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Are you trying to argue that the people of Afghanistan wanted the US to stay, or are you arguing that the people of Afghanistan wanted so little for the US to stay that a single tweet had the potential to set them off? I'm confused.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


What kind of thinking is that? You were a bit vague.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> lol now you're trolling, bud.
> Who took over the country that is making the Afghanny people flee right now?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...


The thinking where you seem to care what the Taliban thinks.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> Well, because they'll kill you on their soil without a doubt lol. And you give them more reason and they'll try even harder to do it. Lead-up to 9/11.


I'm not that paranoid, sorry.  The Taliban were already in Afghanistan before we invaded the country for no reason.  9/11 was largely planned and funded by Saudi Arabia.  We found and killed Bin Laden in Pakistan.

From here on out, the Taliban are gonna do what they want to do, regardless of Twitter's input or lack thereof.  It's irrelevant.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> You're lovely  And yes, I do. The late 80's, very early 90's Desert storm / gulf war to you.
> 
> And yes, I'm saying if they wanted to display that flag then they damn well better have a reason if they know it's going to invoke a response when they're about to up and leave.  And my stance is yes, they should've stayed and held their ground especially if they want to continue American acts. Under Biden they could have totally scrapped Trump's idea of leaving; I don't know why no one is ever bringing that up? Just blaming trump for making a plan to leave and then blaming Biden for this mess. I can't stand either President/former president.



Actually... you're a little late. Before desert storm, the USA armed the Taliban and trained them with common CIA guerilla tactics and weaponry, in tandem with the ISI (the intelligence agency of the region) in order to counteract... communism. Again. It was kind of our jam back in those days. Afterwards, the USA then withdrew any level of formal support, and they began to refer to our use of their country as a killing field as "the great betrayal". They've literally been using our weapons and tactics against us since then, as we provided it.

https://historyofyesterday.com/afte...dmitted-that-it-armed-the-taliban-9c563d74215


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The thinking where you seem to care what the Taliban thinks.


So you're saying we should just bomb them all cause it doesn't matter what they think, right? Are you being a bit of war-monger now? 

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Dakitten said:


> Actually... you're a little late. Before desert storm, the USA armed the Taliban and trained them with common CIA guerilla tactics and weaponry, in tandem with the ISI (the intelligence agency of the region) in order to counteract... communism. Again. It was kind of our jam back in those days. Afterwards, the USA then withdrew any level of formal support, and they began to refer to our use of their country as a killing field as "the great betrayal". They've literally been using our weapons and tactics against us since then, as we provided it.
> 
> https://historyofyesterday.com/afte...dmitted-that-it-armed-the-taliban-9c563d74215


I knew the armed part and training; because WE trained lovely Osama Bin Laden. Thanks for the quick history catch-up of the old times that will repeat themselves.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> We're talking about a tweet that appeared to have zero consequences.





Xzi said:


> Jimbo and ChronoTrig don't seem to realize that all they're doing is lending an undeserved sense of importance to Twitter as a platform.  I guarantee you that almost nobody in Afghanistan even saw the tweet that they've got their panties in a bunch over...there are much more pressing matters to deal with at the moment.



As I started demonstrably before with 100% certainty which has not been debunked,  You and Lacius are just racists for thinking Afghans aren't tech savy enough to use twitter and aren't aware of an Official US statement from an embassy on their territory they deem to be holy land.

The Taliban has twitter,      I guess the TOS and "community guidelines" only apply to U.S. based conservatives.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I'm not that paranoid, sorry.  The Taliban were already in Afghanistan before we invaded the country for no reason.  9/11 was largely planned and funded by Saudi Arabia.  We found and killed Bin Laden in Pakistan.
> 
> From here on out, the Taliban are gonna do what they want to do, regardless of Twitter's input or lack thereof.  It's irrelevant.


If you say so. You should be always watching all your enemies because they will drive a knife in your back. Not saying that's how I live, because I'm not a 1%'r, thief, gangster, someone of political power, etc, but I'm saying that's what they have to do to remain in control/power/not dead.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> As I started demonstrably before with 100% certainty which has not been debunked,  You and Lacius are just racists for thinking Afghans aren't tech savy enough to use twitter and aren't aware of an Official US statement from an embassy on their territory they deem to be holy land.
> 
> The Taliban has twitter,      I guess the TOS and "community guidelines" only apply to U.S. based conservatives.


Das racist.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> As I started demonstrably before with 100% certainty which has not been debunked, You and Lacius are just racists for thinking Afghans aren't tech savy enough to use twitter and aren't aware of an Official US statement from an embassy on their territory they deem to be holy land.


I didn't say anything about how tech savvy they are, I said they have bigger problems to deal with right now.  Apparently you think they're so stupid that they'd stare at their phones blankly the entire time while the Taliban are kicking down their door.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I'm not that paranoid, sorry.  The Taliban were already in Afghanistan before we invaded the country for no reason.  9/11 was largely planned and funded by Saudi Arabia.  We found and killed Bin Laden in Pakistan.
> 
> From here on out, the Taliban are gonna do what they want to do, regardless of Twitter's input or lack thereof.  It's irrelevant.



Heavenly father save us. This type of thinking is what will let the extremist carry out devastating consequentes. Before 911, Afghanistan was used as a training base for extremist. There are video's out there where you can see them training. God Almighty help us if everyone thinks like this.

People are so naïeve, those people are not the same as 20 years ago. Everyone commenting they are "Cave dwellers" In fact they are not cave dwellers, they hide in plain sight. People are understimating them and when disaster hits everyone puts a Pikachu face with no way this did happened here. Dont expect to things to stay just there, once this whole takeover fades, they will not stand still. As i said extremist who left Syria, Iraq will now travel to Afghanistan.

Cant believe how naïeve people are if they think that those extremist will just stay there.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Heavenly father save us. This type of thinking is what will let the extremist carry out devastating consequentes. Before 911, Afghanistan was used a a training base for extremist. There are video's out there where you can see them training. God Almighty help ud if everyone thinks like this.
> 
> People are so naïeve, those people are not the same as 20 years ago. Everyone commenting they are "Cave dwellers" In fact they are not cave dwellers, they hide in plain sight. People are understimating them and when disaster hits everyone puts a Pikachu face with no way this did happened here. Dont expect to things to stay just there, once this whole takeover fades, they will not stand still. As i said extremist who left Syria, Iraq will now travel to Afghanistan.
> 
> Cant believe how naïeve people are if they think that those extremist will just stay there.


That's the point I keep trying to make. Well-said.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

President Trump has released a statement on Presidementia's humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan.



> Joe Biden gets it wrong every time on foreign policy, and many other issues. Everyone knew he couldn’t handle the pressure. Even Obama’s Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, said as much. He ran out of Afghanistan instead of following the plan our Administration left for him—a plan that protected our people and our property, and ensured the Taliban would never dream of taking our Embassy or providing a base for new attacks against America. The withdrawal would be guided by facts on the ground.
> 
> After I took out ISIS, I established a credible deterrent. That deterrent is now gone. The Taliban no longer has fear or respect for America, or America’s power. What a disgrace it will be when the Taliban raises their flag over America’s Embassy in Kabul. This is complete failure through weakness, incompetence, and total strategic incoherence


----------



## deinonychus71 (Aug 16, 2021)

Trump is completely irrelevant here. You can absolutely hate Trump and still be disappointed at Biden / Democrats for their handling of the situation. Partisanship bullshit be damned.

This kind of threads is interesting as it shows who actually care about human life and who is just playing pretend on social medias all day long.

It goes a long way to show how little our so-called problems are if we spend entire threads bickering about Twitter. But who cares, in 2 days a celeb will say something stupid and we'll treat it as if it's the worst thing ever said.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Before 911, Afghanistan was used a a training base for extremist. There are video's out there where you can see them training. God Almighty help ud if everyone thinks like this.


That's...what I just said in the post you quoted.  The Taliban were in Afghanistan before we invaded.  Afghanistan still had nothing to do with 9/11.  Neither did Iraq.



DoubleDate said:


> Cant believe how naïeve people are if they think that those extremist will just stay there.


Again, we spend more money on our military and homeland defense than the next ten countries combined.  So long as we have competent leadership that doesn't ignore intelligence on credible threats, there's no need to live in constant fear of the Middle East.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

deinonychus71 said:


> Trump is completely irrelevant here. You can absolutely hate Trump and still be disappointed at Biden / Democrats for their handling of the situation. Partisanship bullshit be damned.
> 
> This kind of threads is interesting as it shows who actually care about human life and who is just playing pretend on social medias all day long.
> 
> It goes a long way to show how little our so-called problems are if we spend entire threads bickering about Twitter. But who cares, in 2 days a celeb will say something stupid and we'll treat it as if it's the worst thing ever said.


The twitter thing was only brought up multiple times because it was stated as being homophobic for even being mentioned and asking what the point of even displaying that tweet was. Of course the explanation was given pages and pages ago, but it was always brought back up with more ways to say why does it even matter.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Xzi said:


> That's...what I just said in the post you quoted.  The Taliban were in Afghanistan before we invaded.  Afghanistan still had nothing to do with 9/11.  Neither did Iraq.
> 
> 
> Again, we spend more money on our military and homeland defense than the next ten countries combined.  So long as we have competent leadership that doesn't ignore intelligence on credible threats, there's no need to live in constant fear of the Middle East.


Afghanistan was partial to why we invaded. Taliban had Osama + Al-Qaeda was there as well. Iraq was WMD's (yes, none were found) -- kind of oh, we're in Afghanistan and Iraq is next door - get Saddam; that was George Bush trying to make up for Sr's mistake on not offing Saddam back in the 90's.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Twice-impeached former president Trump has released a statement


Is it a statement of solidarity with the Taliban?  Because that's the only way there could possibly be any truth to it.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> That's...what I just said in the post you quoted.  The Taliban were in Afghanistan before we invaded.  Afghanistan still had nothing to do with 9/11.  Neither did Iraq.
> 
> 
> Again, we spend more money on our military and homeland defense than the next ten countries combined.  So long as we have competent leadership that doesn't ignore intelligence on credible threats, there's no need to live in constant fear of the Middle East.



Sure, borders open, extremist comes with refugees, then make a plan, attack any western city: You and the lot who live in denial: 0_0

The understimating is beyond my comprehension. You are comparing them like they were from the 90's ,early 2000's.

With social media en all kind of modern message technology, they can contact any sleeping cell anywhere. 

Yeah so many money on the millitary that Biden let under his watch Afghanistan being taken over and getting all kind of weaponery.

"Afghanistan had nothing to do with 911" Except the hijakcers visited Osama Bin Laden there in the late 90's and trained with other extremist there. It was a brewing place of extremist with views to hurt the West. Osama the person responsible for 911 live many years there, then moved to Pakistan.

Look up Massoud from Afghanistan, wh warned the US about an incoming attack on US soil and he got killed for it.

The denial of people is outstanding.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> President Trump has released a statement on Presidementia's humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan.
> ​


Trump continued the war, he's just as guilty as everyone else involved. As for what Trump said, literally don't care.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> Afghanistan was partial to why we invaded. Taliban had Osama + Al-Qaeda was there as well.


In which case, we should've left the second we realized Bin Laden wasn't in Afghanistan.  We captured the entire country relatively quickly, a matter of months.  For some Americans, that unfortunately meant their bloodthirst wasn't yet sated.



ChronoTrig said:


> Iraq was WMD's (yes, none were found) -- kind of oh, we're in Afghanistan and Iraq is next door - get Saddam; that was George Bush trying to make up for Sr's mistake on not offing Saddam back in the 90's.


Yep, because one never-ending war with no clear objective just wasn't enough apparently.  Iraq is going to be the same kind of shitshow whenever we decide to withdraw.



DoubleDate said:


> Sure, borders open, extremist comes with refugees, then make a plan, attack any western city: You and the lot who live in denial: 0_0
> 
> The understimating is beyond my comprehension. You are comparing them like they were from the 90's ,early 2000's.
> 
> With social media en all kind of modern message technology, they can contact any sleeping cell anywhere.


And?  You think terrorists are the only ones with smartphone technology in 2021?  You're not only being paranoid, but also irrational.



DoubleDate said:


> "Afghanistan had nothing to do with 911" Except the hijakcers visited Osama Bin Laden there in the late 90's and trained with other extremist there.


Well let's just bomb everywhere that Bin Laden ever visited in his lifetime then, including America since he was trained by the CIA.  It's the only way we can ever truly feel safe.  /s


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Trump continued the war, he's just as guilty as everyone else involved. As for what Trump said, literally don't care.



Trump negotiated a peaceful withdrawal, your welcome and obviously you do care what else would you have to pout about.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Trump negotiated a peaceful withdrawal, your welcome and obviously you do care what else would you have to pout about.


Did he? Do you have a source to back that up?


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Trump negotiated a peaceful withdrawal


_For Americans._  What we got with Biden was a peaceful withdrawal _for Americans_.  The Taliban were never going to let Afghani government/military officials withdraw in peace, nor was that part of Trump's empty negotiations.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Did he? Do you have a source to back that up?



I know you think it's conservative jobs to continually google simple matter of facts and current events for you but today instead of a fish I am going to do a good deed, here is a pole and some bait.

www.google.com


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> In which case, we should've left the second we realized Bin Laden wasn't in Afghanistan.  We captured the entire country relatively quickly, a matter of months.  For some Americans, that unfortunately meant their bloodthirst wasn't yet sated.
> 
> 
> Yep, because one never-ending war with no clear objective just wasn't enough apparently.  Iraq is going to be the same kind of shitshow whenever we decide to withdraw.
> ...



Looks like you have no concern regarding human lives at stake.

There is everywhere technology being used by everyone. Can you monitor what those extremist are messaging? No, neither can the US government. They tried with Apple to unlock one of a pair of people who commited terrorist acts in the US and failed. There are plenty messages platforms where they can communicate, its private end to end user messages, meaning government cant snoop into those messages.

Again, Osama lived for many years in Afghanistan, Ziad Jarrah, Marwan Al Shehhi and Mohammed Atta (911 hijackers) visited a training camp there in the late 90's. Osama and other extremist send money to them from Afghanistan. The US went there because at the time that was the intel they got that Osama was living there. He dissapeared from the spotlight until someone alerted the US that he was living in Abottabad, Pakistan.

So, there were no reasons to "bomb" every place because as i said at the time, they were getting intel that Osama was there.

In other words, the extremist that has Afghanistan now didnt mind and didn't care that Osama nor any other extremist group was in the country.

I trully from my heart hope that this mess that Biden inflicted does not cost any lives on Western countries, as Afghanistan will be now a place for extremist. I cant even fathom what those poor people over there will be dealing with.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> I know you think it's conservative jobs to continually google simple matter of facts and current events for you but today instead of a fish I am going to do a good deed, here is a pole and some bait.
> 
> www.google.com


You made the statement, you are required to back it up. As per the normal for you, you think shifting responsibility is enough to get me to stop asking you for sources. So again, got any sources, or are just going to continue to pretend your inflated ego is source enough?


----------



## deinonychus71 (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> The twitter thing was only brought up multiple times because it was stated as being homophobic for even being mentioned and asking what the point of even displaying that tweet was. Of course the explanation was given pages and pages ago, but it was always brought back up with more ways to say why does it even matter.



Right, it remains the first platform for political activism for a lot of people, sadly.

My point is that most of the Taliban's ideals of society represent everything the left despises (rightfully so), but 10 times more hardcore. We're not talking about offending words or mansplaining or misrepresentation of power in companies. Women have absolutely no rights.
The Sharia that you can still see some fucking idiots defend on social media means death for all of us LGBT.

And yet, there are still people here who'd rather bring up Trump as a scapegoat (in this case, IT IS) to attempt to justify the Democrats swift withdrawal in full knowledge of the consequences.
Because sure, we all hate Trump, Trump did so much wrong, so let's talk about Trump again and not about the hypocrites we are. Whataboutism is the weapon of blind partisanship.

And yes, It IS a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but in this case, one is a little more damned.
Sure, feel free to complain to every other country for not doing shit (or not enough about it), ask for financial help, pressure them into helping, but leaving a population on its own after protecting it for so long is not something anyone who cares about human rights should agree with.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> There is everywhere technology being used by everyone. Can you monitor what those extremist are messaging? No, neither can the US government. They tried with Apple to unlock one of a pair of people who commited terrorist acts in the US and failed. There are plenty messages platforms where they can communicate, its private end to end user messages, meaning government cant snoop into those messages.


You've apparently not heard of a little organization that goes by the name of NSA.  Literally _all_ online and phone traffic runs through their massive server center buried under Utah.  If you ask me, we trade too much freedom for this sense of security, but it is what it is.



DoubleDate said:


> In other words, the extremist that has Afghanistan now didnt mind and didn't care that Osama nor any other extremist group was in the country.


Pakistan also didn't care that they were playing host to Bin Laden, yet we didn't invade that country and stick around for twenty years.  You haven't even clarified what benefit you think sticking around in Afghanistan would actually bring us.  Our continued military presence there did nothing but serve as a persistent recruitment ad for the Taliban.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> In which case, we should've left the second we realized Bin Laden wasn't in Afghanistan.  We captured the entire country relatively quickly, a matter of months.  For some Americans, that unfortunately meant their bloodthirst wasn't yet sated.
> 
> 
> Yep, because one never-ending war with no clear objective just wasn't enough apparently.  Iraq is going to be the same kind of shitshow whenever we decide to withdraw.
> ...


The scope changed and became break up al-qaeda since they launched missiles back in 1998 at the embassy and were becoming a force to be reckoned with. You don't just install a bunch of people and then just up and out. What kind of message does that say? Makes it look like a mistake/weak. Instead they hung around and killed a bunch of people, helped a lot of afghanny's, and so forth.   It really is sad we just up and left like that, cause I have a ton of friends who died in that war which now looks extremely pointless.  Now I know how Vietnam vets feel.   All for nothing but casualties.

Like I said, Bush wanted to go to Iraq to finish his father's mistake which was to kill Saddam. Everyone has ulterior motives.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> You made the statement, you are required to back it up. As per the normal for you, you think shifting responsibility is enough to get me to stop asking you for sources. So again, got any sources, or are just going to continue to pretend your inflated ego is source enough?



You have no requirements I feel obliged to meet, your are more than capable of googling the Trump administrations negotiations with the Taliban and timeline for withdrawal.

As per the normal for you, you will feign or have legitimate ignorance of matters of basic current events and have no other retort than think it's others jobs to research news for you.   That's called laziness, were not engaging that today.  There are more interesting world affairs than engaging you.  Such as Biden's administration ending humanitarian crisis.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

deinonychus71 said:


> Right, it remains the first platform for political activism for a lot of people, sadly.
> 
> My point is that most of the Taliban's ideals of society represent everything the left despises (rightfully so), but 10 times more hardcore. We're not talking about offending words or mansplaining or misrepresentation of power in companies. Women have absolutely no rights.
> The Sharia that you can still see some fucking idiots defend on social media means death for all of us LGBT.
> ...


Fully agreed with you. I feel for the families who had Americans as protection and now they're basically ready for an onslaught.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> You don't just install a bunch of people and then just up and out.


Why not?  As I said before, the result was going to be the same whether we stayed a week or a hundred years.  The region had been at war for centuries before the USA even came into being, thus the Taliban are experts at waiting out occupying forces.  It was always a lost cause.  I knew that even as a teenager, which is why I participated in protests against going into Afghanistan and Iraq.



ChronoTrig said:


> Like I said, Bush wanted to go to Iraq to finish his father's mistake which was to kill Saddam. Everyone has ulterior motives.


That's called a war crime, and I maintain that Obama's biggest failure was not prosecuting GWB and Cheney for it.  They knowingly lied to us about the WMDs, too.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> You have no requirements I feel obliged to meet, your are more than capable of googling the Trump administrations negotiations with the Taliban and timeline for withdrawal.
> 
> As per the normal for you, you will feign or have legitimate ignorance of matters of basic current events and have no other retort than think it's others jobs to research news for you.   That's called laziness, were not engaging that today.  There are more interesting world affairs than engaging you.  Such as Biden's administration ending humanitarian crisis.


Sources would be nice, but I did Google that and it seems most articles are reporting his negotiations as not really helping and even linking them to being a problem for Biden. There's a mix bag of results but it doesn't seem like Trump's negotiations really helped much
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03xJZ3Ge8tiyiF4vBMrKiRgijAFiQ:1629092391961&q=Trump+administration's+negotiations+with+the+Taliban&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDu9CK6rTyAhXNZs0KHaDMB9AQBSgAegQIARAx&biw=1920&bih=865
Additionally, my point still doesn't change. Trump continued the same war throughout his administration, Trump is still part of the problem for continuing the war.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> You've apparently not heard of a little organization that goes by the name of NSA.  Literally _all_ online and phone traffic runs through their massive server center buried under Utah.  If you ask me, we trade too much freedom for this sense of security, but it is what it is.
> 
> 
> Pakistan also didn't care that they were playing host to Bin Laden, yet we didn't invade that country and stick around for twenty years.  You haven't even clarified what benefit you think sticking around in Afghanistan would actually bring us.  Our continued military presence there did nothing but serve as a persistent recruitment ad for the Taliban.



The NSA? What a joke. They are monitoring what COULD be monitored, that is why the extremist use extreme measures so that their messages doesnt come under the US or any other country authorities. If the NSA could intercept all the messages, a lot of them wouldn't be using high end to end user encrypted messengers like Telegram. Goodluck trying to unlock those kind of messages. The only way they could get acces is if its an Android Phone or an easy to hack Iphone, other than that there is no way to gain acces.

As i said earlier, i didn't agree with the whole invasion, but you forget something: after 911 whole America were cheering and clapping to go there and when nothing was found it was called an utter failure.

Pakistan Isn't friendly with the US, so you are right there that they didn't care. Its not like the US and Pakistan are best friends, so it wasn't in their interest to cooperate with the US.

The thing is, that with the military there, we might have prevented any attack on any Western grounds, since extremist are looking for ways to harm the west.

Look now how Afghanistan is, at least women were doing better, girl were having a chance for a better future, everything gone in the drain now. Tney dont care about any good value due to their practice. If they did things good without any bloodshed, i would say Goodluck Afghanistan, but that is not the case sadly.

You may say whatever you want, nothing is gonna  change that by the action of Biden, a lot of people will sadly face a very bad situation. People dont care until it happens close to home.

The safety of humanity is what counts, and barbaric acts has no place in this day and age.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Why not?  As I said before, the result was going to be the same whether we stayed a week or a hundred years.  The region had been at war for centuries before the USA even came into being, thus the Taliban are experts at waiting out occupying forces.  It was always a lost cause.  I knew that even as a teenager, which is why I participated in protests against going into Afghanistan and Iraq.
> 
> 
> That's called a war crime, and I maintain that Obama's biggest failure was not prosecuting GWB and Cheney for it.  They knowingly lied to us about the WMDs, too.


Region may have been at war but we weren't the target years and years ago. We were becoming the target and again, we need to hold the power and respect, you start destroying our property we will not tolerate that. Osama gave more reason to invade and break up the al-qaeda / Taliban.
You do realize what would've happened if we didn't retaliate after the towers came down, right? I'll answer that for you since I'm getting a little sleepy now. They would've kept destroying us piece by piece in many ways. It's why congress said GO. Went there and dropped a lot of their forces, mitigated a lot of what would've been issues that didn't happen. Yes, we had a ton of casualties and it seems very pointless... but we accomplished something for a time being.  Now we have drones and I'm sure they'll use the drones to continue bombing them without the need of forces..... but, they now have our resources cause they sloppily left them behind.

Forgot about the Obama comment.. I'm sure there's reasons behind the scene you nor I know about for why those things didn't occur. You'll probably see why in another 40 years when it no longer matters at all and everyone who was apart of it then will be dead. Obama had his part in a lot of drone fun too.


----------



## MikaDubbz (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> While the President went on another Vacation AGAIN



I find points like this ironic when George W took by far the most vacations of any president ever, and Trump both had more vacation days than Obama, but also had the most costly to the American taxpayers in vacation costs at $144 million (and that's just what's known).  Funny how people want to apply the faults of their guy to the other side's guy when they aren't in control.  Like maybe if they point out that this guy has taken some vacations, we'll all forget that their last guy was by far the worst US president offender in this department thus far.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Sources would be nice, but I did Google that and it seems most articles are reporting his negotiations as not really helping and even linking them to being a problem for Biden. There's a mix bag of results but it doesn't seem like Trump's negotiations really helped much
> https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03xJZ3Ge8tiyiF4vBMrKiRgijAFiQ:1629092391961&q=Trump+administration's+negotiations+with+the+Taliban&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDu9CK6rTyAhXNZs0KHaDMB9AQBSgAegQIARAx&biw=1920&bih=865
> Additionally, my point still doesn't change. Trump continued the same war for the majority for his administration, Trump is still part of the problem for continuing the war.




Oh gee you mean your google algorithm score is giving you results skewed to the opinions you already hold, which is exactly mine is going to do which would simply open the door the door to circular arguments and adhominem complaints about my sources.

Congratulations, now you see why I decided you unworthy of giving a fish to.

If it weren't for Trump no withdrawal would be taking place, you had no point you had an opinion.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> If the NSA could intercept all the messages, a lot of them wouldn't be using high end to end user encrypted messengers like Telegram.


Telegram is owned by Facebook now, it's far from the best example to use when talking about secure communication methods.



DoubleDate said:


> As i said earlier, i didn't agree with the whole invasion, but you forget something: after 911 whole America were cheering and clapping to go there and when nothing was found it was called an utter failure.


America was divided as ever over going to war with Afghanistan, and even fewer Americans supported jumping from that war to the next in Iraq.  A lot of people on TV (mostly Democrats) correctly predicted a catastrophic end to our involvement in these countries.



DoubleDate said:


> The thing is, that with the military there, we might have prevented any attack on any Western grounds, since extremist are looking for ways to harm the west.


If anything, we only created even more anti-American sentiment during our time there.  Several generations worth.



DoubleDate said:


> Look now how Afghanistan is, at least women were doing better, girl were having a chance for a better future, everything gone in the drain now. Tney dont care about any good value due to their practice. If they did things good without any bloodshed, i would say Goodluck Afghanistan, but that is not the case sadly.


Yeah, I definitely feel for women stuck under Sharia law.  Canada has offered to take 20,000 women leaders and professionals from Afghanistan, but at this point I'm not sure how easy it would be to get them out in time.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Oh gee you mean your google algorithm score is giving you results skewed to the opinions you already hold, which is exactly mine is going to do which would simply open the door the door to circular arguments and adhominem complaints about my sources.
> 
> Congratulations, now you see why I decided you unworthy of giving a fish to.
> 
> If it weren't for Trump no withdrawal would be taking place, you had no point you had an opinion.


So you just don't have any sources, just a massive ego. The same searches came up when using TOR, so it seems that reality doesn't quite match up with your claims. Since you don't seem to have any sources, I am just going to say that they simply don't exist. Why can't you provide any sources for any of your posts? Every single time you are asked for sources, you dodge the request or just say some fluff about how you don't have to provide them or something like that. You don't seem to have any sources, ever. It's easier to assume you are either making stuff up or don't actually trust your sources enough to share them.
Again, what are your sources for your previous claim? This shouldn't be so hard to ask you to provide a single link to back up your claim.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> You do realize what would've happened if we didn't retaliate after the towers came down, right?


I didn't say there shouldn't have been any retaliation, but we should've at least retaliated against the people/countries that were _actually _involved.  Ultimately we sent in one team of Navy Seals to assassinate Bin Laden.  If we had just done that in the first place, we could've saved trillions of dollars and millions of lives.  Retaliation against Saudi Arabia was always unlikely, but it's absolutely ludicrous that the GWB administration let Saudi royals fly out of the US when all other air travel was locked down.  That should've been a huge red flag that we were being lied to about the perpetrators.



ChronoTrig said:


> Forgot about the Obama comment.. I'm sure there's reasons behind the scene you nor I know about for why those things didn't occur.


As the first black president, he didn't want to rock the boat too much.  That ended up causing him to be too timid/moderate on a number of issues, and thus the reason his presidency was a pretty big disappointment to a lot of progressives.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> So you just don't have any sources, just a massive ego. The same searches came up when using TOR, so it seems that reality doesn't quite match up with your claims. Since you don't seem to have any sources, I am just going to say that they simply don't exist. Why can't you provide any sources for any of your posts? Every single time you are asked for sources, you dodge the request or just say some fluff about how you don't have to provide them or something like that. You don't seem to have any sources, ever. It's easier to assume you are either making stuff up or don't actually trust your sources enough to share them.
> Again, what are your sources for your previous claim? This shouldn't be so hard to ask you to provide a single link to back up your claim.



Because I am not going to waste my time digging through miles of news stories to find an impartial source with a hard link of a basic current event no one with common sense is disputing. If Fox news claimed the earth was round you would bitch it was from Fox news and change the subject to a page long tirade about Tucker Carlson. 

If I post a AP story that happens to be uploaded to a modern platform such as Youtube or a Twitter feed of senate bills for example I have to engage an endless circular argument with your derpity ass because people don't understand the difference between a _platform _and a _source. 
_
You wont engage the information of a story, you wont cross check it with sources you trust.   You will forgo any responsibility of examining the information to adhominem attacks about not liking the source or the platform and declare the earth is flat if you didn't see the exact same characterization on whatever left wing rags populate your feed.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Telegram is owned by Facebook now, it's far from the best example to use when talking about secure communication methods.
> 
> 
> America was divided as ever over going to war with Afghanistan, and even fewer Americans supported jumping from that war to the next in Iraq.  A lot of people on TV (mostly Democrats) correctly predicted a catastrophic end to our involvement in these countries.
> ...



Facebook may own Telegram, yet the encryption is still in place, if i remember, Telegram said that they had no plan to give any information or share any of its encryption with any authorities, the chance of message cracking by Facebook is unlikely. Same with Whatsapp, lots of weird folks in there and if something comes up it because the user or anyone in a chat group decided to talk, not because the authorities did find something. I remember some cases where the police acted like they were an interested customer to buy Guns or anything that is against the law, they made an appointment and went full arrest mode. If they were checking all the traffic, wouldn't they know were the messages comes from and arrest the inviduals? Exactly, there is no NSA spying on those apps.

No they werent more anti American, they always hated the west. Have you forgotten about the WTC attack in 1993? Or the military boat suicide attack in 2000? I remember reading somewhere that Mohammed Atta ( Hijacker pilot flight 11) Was jumping and laughing when he heard about that attack, and that was way before the US went to war for retailation on the WTC.

The attack with Airplanes originated somewhere around in 1995 or earlier, so they had already murderious plans. Doesn't matter if the US did or Didn't go, the end result is those extremist would tried another way to harm the US.

I hope that those woman will have a chance to leave, that country is just a mess and the worst place for a woman to be. They dont have respect for them. I pray for a miracle and that something happen and those extremist just dissapear from the face of the Earth. Live and let live.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> If they were checking all the traffic, wouldn't they know were the messages comes from and arrest the inviduals?


Yes...that's how it works.  We get news of terrorist cells being busted like this quite often.  OTOH, it's a lot harder to track individuals that carry out attacks without any prior planning or communication with others.  For example, white supremacists that post a manifesto right before opening fire on a church, grocery store, etc.



DoubleDate said:


> No they werent more anti American, they always hated the west.


Killing peoples' friends and family right in front of their eyes does tend to have a way of enraging people to their limit.  Obviously not everybody in Afghanistan was sympathetic to the Taliban before we invaded, so a US military presence always had the potential to drive up recruitment for them.



DoubleDate said:


> The attack with Airplanes originated somewhere around in 1995 or earlier, so they had already murderious plans.  Doesn't matter if the US did or Didn't go, the end result is those extremist would tried another way to harm the US.


At this point you're just lumping all terrorists together and assuming they all originated in Afghanistan.  We've got homegrown religious fundamentalists/extremists right here in the US, and they pose a much larger threat than a group across the ocean with no navy/air force to speak of.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Because I am not going to waste my time digging through miles of news stories to find an impartial source with a hard link of a basic current event no one with common sense is disputing. If Fox news claimed the earth was round you would bitch it was from Fox news and change the subject to a page long tirade about Tucker Carlson.
> 
> If I post a AP story that happens to be uploaded to a modern platform such as Youtube or a Twitter feed of senate bills for example I have to engage an endless circular argument with your derpity ass because people don't understand the difference between a _platform _and a _source.
> _
> You wont engage the information of a story, you wont cross check it with sources you trust.   You will forgo any responsibility of examining the information to adhominem attacks about not liking the source or the platform and declare the earth is flat if you didn't see the exact same characterization on whatever left wing rags populate your feed.


Waffling with no source, tragic. Can't even manage to find one link to back up your claim. So you going to provide any sources or just continue waffling about? I am not asking for anymore more than a single link.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Waffling with no source, tragic. Can't even manage to find one link to back up your claim. So you going to provide any sources or just continue waffling about? I am not asking for anymore more than a single link.




A source for what?  I am the source of why I don't waste my time googling common knowledge for your uninformed tantrums.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yes...that's how it works.  We get news of terrorist cells being busted like this quite often.  OTOH, it's a lot harder to track individuals that carry out attacks without any prior planning or communication with others.  For example, white supremacists that post a manifesto right before opening fire on a church, grocery store, etc.
> 
> 
> Killing peoples' friends and family right in front of their eyes does tend to have a way of enraging people to their limit.  Obviously not everybody in Afghanistan was sympathetic to the Taliban before we invaded, so a US military presence always had the potential to drive up recruitment for them.
> ...



Yeah it might work for certain apps, but not the ones with end to end user encryptions. If that was the case the authorities wouldn't even bother to ask Apple to unlock phones, the FBI couldnt even unlock a phone from one of the Chatanooga shooters a few years back. If they post things on Facebook, Instagram, any other platform without end to end chances are indeed that it gets cracked, on that one i agree.

Again, before the US invasion, Afghanistan was a brewing place for extremist, many were training there. Many people were tired then of them and were relieved that they were saved by the US invasion. Since the invasion in 2001, Afghanistan made progress to do something different because they were not forced to do things that they didnt want to do. As i said, i dont agree with the invasion but it helped the nation and now the are back to square one. I do think that if Biden didnt leave abruptly and left in a certain way that the Afghan authorities could take it from there, we wouldve seen a different approach than what we have now.

No, on the contrary. Im not lumping them together, but sinces most attacks came from Iraq, Libanon, Afghanistan, and a few others who some got direct orders from Osama in Afghanistan during tje 90's and trained in camps there, its to say that they didnt came from the West, or did they? Most got training at camps in Afghanistan, you can search it up.

Since early 90's attacks have been on the rise, there are documentaires where you can read up how many came from training grounds in Afghanistan.

And as i said, things will repeat itself. More extremist will go there, the one there will not care and the West will caught up in this mess.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> A source for what?  I am the source of why I don't waste my time googling common knowledge for your uninformed tantrums.


A simple link to back up this claim.



jimbo13 said:


> Trump negotiated a peaceful withdrawal, your welcome and obviously you do care what else would you have to pout about.


I do want to add that I am not a Liberal nor a Democrat.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> A simple link to back up this claim.


https://lmgtfy.app/?q=Trum+negotiates+withdrawal+from+afghanistan


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> https://lmgtfy.app/?q=Trum+negotiates+withdrawal+from+afghanistan


Wow~ cool, not source to an actual article or anything, this is mostly because that shit just straight-up broke


GG, why not just provide a link to an article or something? I literally already Google this and you shot that down. So I then Googled it again using TOR and got the same results as the first one. So it seems simply Googling it isn't enough to constitute a replacement for providing a source on your end.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Wow~ cool, not source to an actual article or anything, this is mostly because that shit just straight-up broke
> View attachment 273202
> GG, why not just provide a link to an article or something? I literally already Google this and you shot that down. So I then Googled it again using TOR and got the same results as the first one. So it seems simply Googling it isn't enough to constitute a replacement for providing a source on your end.



If you want to pretend Trump did not negotiate a withdrawal from Afghanistan with the Taliban and are to lazy click a link I don't care, it's common knowledge that event take place verifiable at any news outlet you like.  What will not be transpiring me is taking your bait to complain about the source or platform.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lilith Valentine said:


> Wow~ cool, not source to an actual article or anything, this is mostly because that shit just straight-up broke
> View attachment 273202
> GG, why not just provide a link to an article or something? I literally already Google this and you shot that down. So I then Googled it again using TOR and got the same results as the first one. So it seems simply Googling it isn't enough to constitute a replacement for providing a source on your end.



Anything good to you? Deal seamed good. Biden destroyed it into flames.

https://law.stanford.edu/2020/12/07/the-u-s-taliban-agreement-and-the-afghan-peace-process/


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Again, before the US invasion, Afghanistan was a brewing place for extremist, many were training there.


Our invasion did nothing to stop that, they just moved those training grounds out of cities and into the mountains.



DoubleDate said:


> I do think that if Biden didnt leave abruptly and left in a certain way that the Afghan authorities could take it from there, we wouldve seen a different approach than what we have now.


I think it could've been different if Trump didn't lend legitimacy to the Taliban by negotiating with them instead of the Afghani government.  The moment he decided to do that, the Taliban became heirs apparent to the country, their takeover became inevitable no matter who was elected in 2020.  Only difference with Trump is that it would've happened much sooner, May 1st.


----------



## The Catboy (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Anything good to you? Deal seamed good. Biden destroyed it into flames.
> 
> https://law.stanford.edu/2020/12/07/the-u-s-taliban-agreement-and-the-afghan-peace-process/


Thank you, that’s literally all I wanted


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Anything good to you? Deal seamed good. Biden destroyed it into flames.
> 
> https://law.stanford.edu/2020/12/07/the-u-s-taliban-agreement-and-the-afghan-peace-process/


Two major problems with it: it's a deal with the devil, and it does nothing to protect the Afghani government/military.  Basically, the same thing happened without the agreement that would've happened with it: US forces evacuated safely, while the Taliban targeted the country's own citizens.  Additionally, the Taliban didn't uphold their end of the agreement to cut ties with Al'Queda, so the whole thing was void anyway.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Our invasion did nothing to stop that, they just moved those training grounds out of cities and into the mountains.
> 
> 
> I think it could've been different if Trump didn't lend legitimacy to the Taliban by negotiating with them instead of the Afghani government.  The moment he decided to do that, the Taliban became heirs apparent to the country, their takeover became inevitable no matter who was elected in 2020.  Only difference with Trump is that it would've happened much sooner, May 1st.



Exactly the point, you were commenting Afghanistan had nothing to do with 911, yet they were keeping extremist who attacked in US Soil. A few messages back you said there was no point and now you understand that they did play a part in the attacks of 2001.

No matter if an invasion did occur or not, extremist were already having plans on how to attack the US. What do you wanted the US to do? To sit back and send a few flowers and chocolates to them? If the towers and the Pentagon werent attacked, they would've found another target. If i remember correcly they wanted to bomb a nucleair power plant or infect the drinking tap water. Unfortunately they wouldn't have given up, they would keep trying to cause harm. The invasion made them realize that they couldnt just attack targets and not expect any retailation.

If Trump would've just negotiated with the Afghan government, the extremist would carried out attacks on different bases againts the Afghan authorities, hence the idea to see if a deal could be made to stop the bloodshed.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

This heartbreaking, the poor girls that will go through hell. If only Biden didnt rush things and botched the withdrawal. So many people that will go through horrible moments. The abandonement of the Afghan people could've been avoided. My heart aches for them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ng-slowly-history-country-seized-Taliban.html


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Exactly the point, you were commenting Afghanistan had norhing to do with 911, yet they were keeping extremist who attacked in US Soil. A few messages back you said there was no point and now you understand that they did play a part in the attacks of 2001.


I said the Taliban maintained training camps in Afghanistan both before and after our invasion.  I didn't say those training camps had anything to do with 9/11, because they didn't.  Again, the 9/11 attacks were planned and funded by Saudi Arabia, using members of Al'Queda as the sacrificial lambs.



DoubleDate said:


> No matter if an invasion did occur or not, extremist were already having plans on how to attack the US. What do you wanted the US to do? To sit back and send a few flowers and chocolates to them? If the towers and the Pentagon werent attacked, they would've found another target.


So now we're talking about future-crime?  What is this, Minority Report?  We can prevent attacks we have actionable intelligence on, but not attacks that only exist in our imagination.



DoubleDate said:


> If Trump would've just negotiated with the Afghan government


But he* didn't*.  He* deliberately chose *to negotiate with the* Taliban *instead.  From that point onward, it was guaranteed they'd be the ones taking over after US withdrawal.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> This heartbreaking, the poor girls that will go through hell. If only Biden didnt rush things and botched the withdrawal. So many people that will go through horrible moments. The abandonement of the Afghan people could've been avoided. My heart aches for them.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ng-slowly-history-country-seized-Taliban.html



Biden has supported every military conflict and act of interventionism put before him since entering office 40 some odd years ago, the man is a warmonger.

He is withdrawing because because of the political pressure of being unable/unwilling to reverse Trumps withdrawal, he has to maintain the false premise that the left is some how not culpable in the actions of the military industrial complex which he has eagerly supported his entire life.

Biden is simply allowing a withdrawal now, let things go to shit and send us back in to this conflict after the next terror attack or humanitarian disaster.  And if he don't future administrations will.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Biden has supported every military conflict and act of interventionism put before him since entering office 40 some odd years ago, the man is a warmonger.


This is true, but I'm certainly not going to complain about it if his actions as president don't reflect his past.



jimbo13 said:


> He is withdrawing because because of the political pressure of being unable/unwilling to reverse Trumps withdrawal


That's nonsense, he already delayed Trump's scheduled withdrawal by several months, and there was nothing stopping him from calling it off altogether.  Just as there wasn't anything stopping Trump from completing the withdrawal ahead of time if he wanted to be given the credit for it (whatever "credit" there might be in handing the country over to the Taliban, anyway).


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> This is true, but I'm certainly not going to complain about it if his actions as president don't reflect his past.
> 
> 
> That's nonsense, he already delayed Trump's scheduled withdrawal by several months, and there was nothing stopping him from calling it off altogether.  Just as there wasn't anything stopping Trump from completing the withdrawal ahead of time if he wanted to be given the credit for it (whatever "credit" there might be in handing the country over to the Taliban, anyway).



Canceling the withdrawal was political suicide for the entire DNC and they weren't going to allow Trump or anyone else a "told you so".


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Canceling the withdrawal was political suicide for the entire DNC and they weren't going to allow Trump or anyone else a "told you so".


If military leaders had told the truth about the Afghani military's inability to stand up for itself, I guarantee the schedule for withdrawal would've been extended quite a bit, if not canceled entirely.  Instead I'm sure they told the Biden administration the same thing they told the GWB/Obama/Trump administration: "everything's fine."


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> If military leaders had told the truth about the Afghani military's inability to stand up for itself, I guarantee the schedule for withdrawal would've been extended quite a bit, if not canceled entirely.  Instead I'm sure they told the Biden administration the same thing they told the GWB/Obama/Trump administration: "everything's fine."



You do realize Military leadership is appointed by the sitting President, if they are lying to him that is his fault.

The mental gymnastics around Biden's warmongering would take the gold.  You all accuse conservatives of being conspiracy theorists "The military is lying to the commander and chief in the chain of command".

LMAO


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> You do realize Military leadership is appointed by the sitting President, if they are lying to him that is his fault.


Generals tend to carry over from one administration to the next, it's only typical of the bureaucrats at the Pentagon to get replaced consistently.  And most Generals never see a potential war that they think they can't win, which is why this is the fourth administration they've been lying to.


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Again, we spend more money on our military and homeland defense than the next ten countries combined.  So long as we have competent leadership that doesn't ignore intelligence on credible threats, there's no need to live in constant fear of the Middle East.


Wasn't that also true in 2001? I agree that living in fear is pointless but the overall concerns seem justified to an extent.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Wasn't that also true in 2001?


Yes, it was.  9/11 was preventable, Bush was given actionable intelligence on that threat multiple times in the months leading up to it.  Which is why I said "so long as we have _competent_ leadership."


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yes, it was.  9/11 was preventable, Bush was given actionable intelligence on that threat multiple times in the months leading up to it.  Which is why I said "so long as we have _competent_ leadership."


I can't make a case for Bush's competence, but it does seem unlikely that nobody else around him was able to see the threat if there was evidence. Also, if that was indeed the case (that it was a failing of his leadership) then it seems like the whole system of having a president is extremely flawed.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> I can't make a case for Bush's competence, but it does seem unlikely that nobody else around him was able to see the threat if there was evidence.


The intelligence on the threat was left specifically on his desk for him to review, several times.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out he never even read it.



subcon959 said:


> Also, if that was indeed the case (that it was a failing of his leadership) then it seems like the whole system of having a president is extremely flawed.


After 9/11, intelligence agencies were given expanded powers and the ability to share information on credible threats between agencies without the president's involvement.  Of course, we got shit like the Patriot Act saddled on us too, so it was far from being all positive changes.  Still a bad idea to elect borderline-illiterate people as president, obviously.  They might mishandle a pandemic and cause the deaths of 500,000 Americans in a single year.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

This is all On Biden
Desperate situation unfolding at #Kabul airport this morning. pic.twitter.com/JlAWtTHPBy— Ahmer Khan (@ahmermkhan) August 16, 2021


----------



## PokeNas (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> New level of daft to claim it is Islamophobic to acknowledge Afghanistan is in no way tolerant to homosexuality.


As if that is a justifiable standard to judge nations. Before invading a country "Do they support homosexuality?" should definitely be one of the questions asked.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

While the President is on Vacation saying he will talk about it when he feels like it 
Loving all the Biden voter mad that they voted for him lol
آج کا افغانستان pic.twitter.com/q3fsuopTUG— Saqib Sagheer (ثاقب صغیر) (@saqibSJang) August 16, 2021


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 16, 2021)

This is not a pretty picture.. you can say that it was inevitable no matter the exit strategy but it concerns me for what sort of threats it poses going forward.







Just to be super clear, I couldn't care less about the US political squabbling concerning this. I care about the safety implications and rise in threat levels that will happen as a result.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> So you're saying we should just bomb them all cause it doesn't matter what they think, right? Are you being a bit of war-monger now?


I didn't say anything about bombing anyone. Don't be disingenuous. I don't remember if it was you or someone else, but I've only heard conservatives in this thread praising Trump for being willing to "bomb them to oblivion."



jimbo13 said:


> As I started demonstrably before with 100% certainty which has not been debunked,  You and Lacius are just racists for thinking Afghans aren't tech savy enough to use twitter and aren't aware of an Official US statement from an embassy on their territory they deem to be holy land.
> https://twitter.com/Zabehulah_M33?r.../the-taliban-spokesman-has-a-twitter-account/


https://twitter.com/Zabehulah_M33?r.../the-taliban-spokesman-has-a-twitter-account/

I didn't say anybody was unaware of the tweet.
If one were to say people were broadly unaware of the tweet, that isn't an implication that anybody isn't tech savvy.
One could argue that it's problematic to make sweeping overgeneralizations about an entire group of people (you went far beyond acknowledging the country's policies were severely anti-LGBT), and one could argue it's problematic that you seem to think the Afghanistan people are unaware of the United States' stance on respect for LGBT people without a tweet.
You seem to be repeating this notion that the United States should somehow, for some reason, kowtow to homophobia. That's unacceptable.
You still haven't demonstrated that the tweet had any significant consequences, or could have plausibly caused significant consequences.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Holy shit  not a good week for Lacius and other Biden admin fanboys
Harris was reportedly pressed to give an update on Afghanistan to the American people but refused.White House source says Kamala Harris could be heard screaming today: “They will not pin this s*** on me!”— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) August 16, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Holy shit  not a good week for Lacius and other Biden admin fanboys
> https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1427147474880368641


Do you have a source?


----------



## seany1990 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Do you have a source?


Tweets from right wing grifters are substantial evidence for OP


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Jesus where is Biden and Kamala really at the picture seem to be fake
Plot twist on #TimeGate. So, it looks like VP Harris didn't move into the Naval Observatory until April. So that would mean the clocks at Camp David are wrong; or Harris was at Naval Observatory before DST kicked in; or the image is photoshopped. Weird.https://t.co/yBAwJToegb pic.twitter.com/WguRkpLM4t— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) August 16, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Jesus where is Biden and Kamala really at the picture seem to be fake


This is unsubstantiated conspiratorial nonsense.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Jesus Biden is probably the most incompetent president in History 
Several US intelligence sources tell ABC that they correctly predicted the rapid and sweeping Taliban takeover, but Biden administration disregarded their reports— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) August 16, 2021


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 16, 2021)

PokeNas said:


> As if that is a justifiable standard to judge nations. Before invading a country "Do they support homosexuality?" should definitely be one of the questions asked.


According to today's wokeness, then yes, we need to ask that question before invading.
"Does your country support gays?"
"Nope."
"GET THAT MOTHEF****R!"


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Not even Lacius can spin all this happening 
Biden, Kamala, and now Psaki are all MIA and unavailable to media or the public. Something is going on.— John Cardillo (@johncardillo) August 16, 2021


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 16, 2021)

I'm starting to think this forum shouldn't have the twitter tags.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> According to today's wokeness, then yes, we need to ask that question before invading.
> "Does your country support gays?"
> "Nope."
> "GET THAT MOTHEF****R!"


The point is not that we should "get those motherfuckers." The point is why are we hypothetically kowtowing to homophobes?



subcon959 said:


> I'm starting to think this forum shouldn't have the twitter tags.


It's less of a GBATemp problem and more of a @Valwinz problem. People respond to his messages, even when they're shitposts, but he just ignores them and starts shitposting more tweets. He has no interest in having a conversation.


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's less of a GBATemp problem and more of a @Valwinz problem. People respond to his messages, even when they're shitposts, but he just ignores them and starts shitposting more tweets. He has no interest in having a conversation.


Exactly, so he'd have nothing to post if he couldn't just copy/paste.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius is mad that he cant spin this due to the fact that i keep posting proof alongside my posts

When I post something i need a source if not them Lacius lies as he has been trying and failing to do here in order to defend his failed president.

He does not like the fact that people can click and that what i am posting is true.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

funny what Happen to AMERICA FIRST?
"The question facing the president back in April, and again as we've gone forward, is should U.S. men and women be put into the middle of another country's civil war when their own army won't fight to defend them? -Jake Sullivan

But now People blaming Biden for a Signed international Agreement with the Taliban and Trump.
 the Funny part is when questioned
 "So your saying Trump messed up soo bad by signing an Agreement with the Taliban with out Afghan govern,  That Biden needs to clean it up by breaking it and making the US look even worse."
They only response is "Biden is president NOW."


subcon959 said:


> I'm starting to think this forum shouldn't have the twitter tags.


OH God yes "People" are just retweeting Random Nobodies with no expiation or context..and should be considered Spamming.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Lacius is mad that he cant spin this due to the fact that i keep posting proof alongside my posts
> 
> When I post something i need a source if not them Lacius lies as he has been trying and failing to do here in order to defend his failed president.
> 
> He does not like the fact that people can click and that what i am posting is true.


You're shitposting tweets, and when I address the content of the tweets (which I shouldn't be doing), you ignore me and move on to the next tweet. It's also difficult to address your points, since I can't quote them directly (because you aren't actually making any points).

For example, you posted some conspiratorial tweets about photos being faked, when there's no evidence supporting that conspiracy, and there's evidence contradicting it. You aren't posting "proof alongside your posts" because a.) You mostly aren't posting anything other than "look at this" (so you have no points), and b.) The accompanying tweet usually doesn't prove anything.

Also, if you are going to address me or talk about me, you should make sure to tag me.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

A reminder that all this mess is on Biden and Kamala both of them took credit and change the withdrawal plans there is the white house post of them making that clear.

Now they are MIA not knowing what to do don't let anybody else here tell you otherwise go on a click all the information i have posted here don't let you know who derail this topic and spin this.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> A reminder that all this mess is on Biden and Kamala both of them took credit and change the withdrawal plans there is the white house post of them making that clear.


It was well-known that the Taliban would eventually overrun the country after the United States withdrew, and the Biden administration acknowledged this. They just thought it would be longer before it would happen. That doesn't mean withdrawing from the region wasn't the right thing to do. In fact, it's evidence that withdrawing was the right decision.

It also wasn't long ago that Trump was trying to claim credit for the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and he criticized the Biden administration for not doing it sooner.



Valwinz said:


> Now they are MIA not knowing what to do don't let anybody else here tell you otherwise go on a click all the information i have posted here don't let you know who derail this topic and spin this.


Should the Biden administration be working on what's going on in the region during a crucial time, or should they be making media appearances? Make up your mind.

We also know where both the President and the Vice President are. They are not "MIA."

It isn't "derailing" the topic to expose how you're wrong.


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> A reminder that all this mess is on Biden and Kamala both of them took credit and change the withdrawal plans there is the white house post of them making that clear.


Weren't the original withdrawal plans that Trump made to get out by May 1st? I don't really see how this would've been any different if it had happened a couple months ago.


----------



## kevin corms (Aug 16, 2021)

Backup a second here, I knew there would be a ton of propaganda and stunts to keep them there before this happened. There is such a long history of this foolishness. I dont like Biden, but I knew this would be the point where the media had to attack him. The Taliban is their excuse to be there, if they wanted to they could have wiped them out years ago.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> Not even Lacius can spin all this happening
> https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1427231295055204353


The real boss is upset.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



subcon959 said:


> Weren't the original withdrawal plans that Trump made to get out by May 1st? I don't really see how this would've been any different if it had happened a couple months ago.


The propaganda would be different, we would be hearing about Putin and Trump interactions and such again.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> A reminder that all this mess is on Biden and Kamala both of them took credit and change the withdrawal plans there is the white house post of them making that clear.
> 
> Now they are MIA not knowing what to do don't let anybody else here tell you otherwise go on a click all the information i have posted here don't let you know who derail this topic and spin this.


Here’s a source you might Believe *“Moscow Times”*
“ Under the Trump administration's February 2020 deal with the Taliban insurgent group, all U.S. troops were to leave by May 2021”


----------



## kevin corms (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Here’s a source you might Believe *“Moscow Times”*
> “ Under the Trump administration's February 2020 deal with the Taliban insurgent group, all U.S. troops were to leave by May 2021”


Trump even said the quiet part out loud, claiming it was too expensive to be there and they should take Venezuela instead.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The point is not that we should "get those motherfuckers." The point is why are we hypothetically kowtowing to homophobes?


Who are we talking in this case? The Taliban or someone else?


----------



## leon315 (Aug 16, 2021)

EmanueleBGN said:


> 20 years of war.
> Thousands of men killed.
> Billions of dollars wasted.
> For nothing.
> Viet-Nam 2.021


it's 4 FUCKING *trillions, TRILLIONS!!!!!!!*


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

WAIT BACK UP!!


Valwinz said:


> Jesus where is Biden and Kamala really at the picture seem to be fake


This is based on the Conspriacy theory that Biden is not at the White House but at Tyler Perry's Movie Studio in Atlanta and States that TRUMP is still Secretly Preisdent and waiting for the right time to Announce it.
So your Implying TRUMP is President but  Yet


Valwinz said:


> A reminder that all this mess is on Biden and Kamala both of them took credit and change the withdrawal plans there is the white house post of them making that clear.


Yet you Blame Biden For the Agreement that Trump Signed with he Taliban? and state he should "do" something, even though Trump still Secretly President... 

At this point your Disproving your own Garbage.....


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Who are we talking in this case? The Taliban or someone else?


Anyone.


----------



## spotanjo3 (Aug 16, 2021)

I m glad that I don't get involved in political stuff. I dont watched TV for those things. Always problem. Not healthy and human being is the problem. The future is getting worse. Crazy. And tiresome! Turn off the news on Television!


----------



## Localhorst86 (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Jesus Biden is probably the most incompetent president in History



His first name is not Jesus. Who even made this bot?


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Localhorst86 said:


> His first name is not Jesus. Who even made this bot?



But Presidementia Blinken is the worst puppet in history, His pull out games worst than his kids making the rounds in Arkansas.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> But Presidementia Blinken is the worst puppet in history, His pull out games worst than his kids making the rounds in Arkansas.



“ Under the Trump administration's February 2020 deal with the Taliban insurgent group, all U.S. troops were to leave by May 2021”
.... ..well this is awkward...


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Aug 16, 2021)

Don't forget that Trump dealed in releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners last year. 

Sure was a great idea to do. /s


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> “ Under the Trump administration's February 2020 deal with the Taliban insurgent group, all U.S. troops were to leave by May 2021”
> .... ..well this is awkward...



Not at all, Blinken tossed Trumps plan which is how the administration has caused a humanitarian disaster.

Press Conference being held today for Sleepy Joe soon as he gets done with coloring and the nurses wash him up from his apple sauce.  I'm sure it's on everyone's mind whether he calls this a "Mostly peaceful" withdrawal or blames this shit show he caused on Trump.

In before Lacius starts citing Blinken's political apologist statements as fact.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

I cant fathom why some people here try their best to be in denial of this whole situation. If you think that by taking the whole Afghan country nothing will happen then you are so sleepy as sleepy Joe.

They will come to Europe, their goal is to rise their flag in major European cities. If nothing is nothing mass evacuation from will be a thing in 10-20 years from now. People saying yeah is not our problem will see the consequences in a few years.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Not at all, Blinken tossed Trumps plan which is why the Biden administration has caused a humanitarian disaster.


oh I Guess its this became more awkward for you






as the Original plain “ Under the Trump administration's February 2020 deal with the Taliban insurgent group, all U.S. troops were to leave by May 2021” is that Key word of Trump Signed agreement with The Tabilan... MAY 2021 
MAY 2021.. 
the only real adjust made was to allow 3 months more ...


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Aug 16, 2021)

Time to also not forget that ANA soldiers also didn't put up much of a fight and surrendered right before the "withdrawal failure" happened. Why else did the Taliban occupy Kabul so quickly that the withdrawal became as it is since there was practically almost no time to react accordingly.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

LinkmstrYT said:


> Time to also not forget that ANA soldiers also didn't put up much of a fight and surrendered right before the "withdrawal failure" happened. Why else did the Taliban occupy Kabul so quickly that the withdrawal became as it is since there was practically almost no time to react accordingly.



It looked a lot like this.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> oh I Guess its this became more awkward for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only thing awkward is that water your carrying to excuse the humanitarian failure Blinken caused, he either scuttled a good plan or followed an incompetent one because he was on vacation or wiping the coke off his kids nose.  Take your pick, it was his decision his failure.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> It looked a lot like this.


Man you have become Cringe..so awkward... guess your Joining the Club 
*Republicans delete webpage celebrating Trump’s deal with Taliban*
*GOP Removes Page Praising Donald Trump's 'Historic' Peace Deal With Taliban*





--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> It looked a lot like this.
> 
> The only think awkward is that water your carrying to excuse the humanitarian failure Blinken caused, he either scuttled a good plan or followed an incompetent one because he was on vacation or wiping the coke off his kids nose.  Take your pick, it was his decision his failure.




"The Afghan government was left out of the Trump agreement. So without a broader diplomatic deal to restrain Taliban fighters, the Afghan government’s control over key population areas, including the capital, Kabul, is likely to rapidly deteriorate, especially if the American pullout goes ahead"


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Aug 16, 2021)

It's a build up of 20 years of this mess. It was basically hot potato with multiple presidents and Biden happened to be the last one to hold it. It was going to fall out eventually no matter who was president.

Plus, we can't just blame everything on America, Trump, or Biden. We were told by Afghan officials for years that troops in Afghan were getting military training so they could stand up for themselves and America even gave them supplies and such. And all of that "training" was for nothing as soon as American troops were getting ready to leave.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

after saying he would address it in a few days i guess the public outrage at his Failure force him to cut his vacation short
Now who is he going to blame?

Get the Bingo ready i got a few here 

I've got: January 6th Vaccination Orange Man Bad


I will be addressing the nation on Afghanistan at 3:45 PM ET today.— President Biden (@POTUS) August 16, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> after saying he would address it in a few days i guess the public outrage at his Failure force him to cut his vacation short


He said he was going to address it "within the next few days." Nothing has changed.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> after saying he would address it in a few days i guess the public outrage at his Failure force him to cut his vacation short
> Now who is he going to blame?
> 
> Get the Bingo ready i got a few here
> ...


*Trump's Deal To End War In Afghanistan Leaves Biden With 'A Terrible Situation'*
"the Taliban, the guys they're sitting across from at the table - you know, these guys were deemed terrorists, you know? And they - these are the guys that gave sanctuary to Osama bin Laden before the 9/11 attacks. And so these are people that we didn't even acknowledge. We didn't acknowledge their legitimacy. And, you know, we're actively trying to kill them. And now we're sitting across the table from them.-Dexter Filkins


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

I seen the videos myself is horrible stuff all this blood is on Biden
#Afghanistan pic.twitter.com/DV5Dfo66Wo— Prison Mitch, Great Meme Wars Vet (@MidnightMitch) August 16, 2021

People are reportedly falling from the US military transport plane near #Kabul airport. They were hanging on the plane tires. pic.twitter.com/SzGQ67YK7f— Ali Özkök (@Ozkok_A) August 16, 2021


----------



## PokeNas (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The point is not that we should "get those motherfuckers." The point is why are we hypothetically kowtowing to homophobes?
> 
> 
> It's less of a GBATemp problem and more of a @Valwinz problem. People respond to his messages, even when they're shitposts, but he just ignores them and starts shitposting more tweets. He has no interest in having a conversation.



Because helping people based on their stance on homosexuality is not logical nor does it benefit anyone. At what point in history have nations become allies based on sexual preference? lmao


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

PokeNas said:


> Because helping people based on their stance on homosexuality is not logical nor does it benefit anyone. At what point in history have nations become allies based on sexual preference? lmao


There is nothing controversial about saying we shouldn't explicitly kowtow to homophobia. I didn't say what you're suggesting I said.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Invalid twitter status URL ([https://twitter.com/krishnajindal07/status/1427206291844263936?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1427206291844263936%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnotthebee.com%2Farticle%2Fwatch-the-tarmac-at-kabul-airport-is-being-swarmed-by-crowds-of-people-trying-to-flee-the-nation[/twitter]']https://twitter.com/krishnajindal07/status/1427206291844263936?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1427206291844263936|twgr^|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https://notthebee.com/article/watch-the-tarmac-at-kabul-airport-is-being-swarmed-by-crowds-of-people-trying-to-flee-the-nation)


----------



## RAHelllord (Aug 16, 2021)

The far right in the US coping so hard is hilarious. It's almost as if they're trying to keep it under the rug that another one of their own was arrested on child sex trafficking charges.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Love the Fact all they can post is Random twitters post ..


----------



## PokeNas (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is nothing controversial about saying we shouldn't explicitly kowtow to homophobia. I didn't say what you're suggesting I said.



I just think it's a slippery slope. Imposing your values on others is not different from imposing your religon on them.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

RAHelllord said:


> The far right in the US coping so hard is hilarious. It's almost as if they're trying to keep it under the rug that another one of their own was arrested on child sex trafficking charges.


what does this have to do with Biden Afghanistan ?  also you live in Germany lol


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> what does this have to do with Biden Afghanistan ?  also you live in Germany lol


I always wanted to know ...Are you really Puerto Rican or a Color blinded Texan?


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is nothing controversial about saying we shouldn't explicitly kowtow to homophobia. I didn't say what you're suggesting I said.



Competent diplomacy is not "Kowtowing" and homophobia would be an improvement of the situation Blinkens diplomats were antagonizing.    They aren't afraid of the people buried up to their neck being stoned to death, homophobia would  be an improvement of the current situation.



Valwinz said:


> what does this have to do with Biden Afghanistan ?  also you live in Germany lol



Nothing at all, desperate diversions for the worst humanitarian disaster in U.S. history caused by Presidementia Blinken.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

In my OP post, I have PROOF of Biden taking Full credit for this mess he change the deal that was in place and he is paying for it 

SO nice try  Panda i guess you did not count with you boy Biden taking full credit HAHAHAAH


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There is nothing controversial about saying we shouldn't explicitly kowtow to homophobia. I didn't say what you're suggesting I said.



Looks like that nothing what people say will awaken people who are in denial. That is how things go, people are very hard in denial until the problem hits their doorstep and will be crying why nothing has been done. World leaders need to come with a plan to sort this out or we will have serious problems in the future. Ive read that they want to implement that barbaric law everywhere around the globe. Europe will become a wasteland than in the end will be nuked because how incompetent world leaders are now. Turning a blind eye while te people suffer. The future looks brim if nothing is being done.

They need to be hold in check or future Europe will suffer for it. People need to stop being in denial and see that this is a real problem. 

I have respect for every being, but live your own live and let live. Biden needs to step up. 3 years from now is way too long, expect  more trouble to come under Bidens administration.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

PokeNas said:


> I just think it's a slippery slope. Imposing your values on others is not different from imposing your religon on them.


Slippery slope arguments are by definition fallacious.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> In my OP post, I have PROOF of Biden taking Full credit for this mess he change the deal that was in place and he is paying for it
> 
> SO nice try  Panda i guess you did not count with you boy Biden taking full credit HAHAHAAH


ok Mr Cultural appropriation ..


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ok Mr Cultural appropriation ..View attachment 273222


It's a tweet, so I'm sure @Valwinz gets it now.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's a tweet, so I'm sure @Valwinz gets it now.



It's 2021 people use twitter to communicate as well as government officials and credible news outlet to release breaking announcements.    Derping about the platform has nothing to do with the source or the content of the information.

It's the equivalent of a Luddite bitching about information distributed by television or radio.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> It's 2021 people use twitter to communicate as well as government officials and credible news outlet to release breaking announcements.    Derping about the platform has nothing to do with the source or the content of the information.
> 
> It's the equivalent of a Luddite bitching about information distributed by television or radio.


I am not badmouthing Twitter. I'm saying @Valwinz mostly doesn't do anything but shitpost unsubstantiated claims from Twitter without actually making any points himself.

He seems to think something is automatically true if it's on Twitter.


----------



## RAHelllord (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> what does this have to do with Biden Afghanistan ?  also you live in Germany lol


I'm impressed you recognized the flag, hats off to you. I literally said in the post I made what it has to do with this situation, the far right is blustering it up so it detracts from the fact that the party that is calling Biden a pedo is now seeing more and more of their own get arrested. But don't let me stop you from trying to pretend otherwise.



jimbo13 said:


> Nothing at all, desperate diversions for the worst humanitarian disaster in U.S. history caused by Presidementia Blinken.



Except the worst humanitarian disaster in U.S. history was caused by Trump's decision to pull funding for the China based CDC watch group that could have reliably warned the world of the SARS-COV-2 virus before it escaped China and prevented 621k dead Americans and the less relevant 3.75 million other deaths world wide.



nintendo19 said:


> But Biden is the one who is in charge now, when this whole shit show happened.
> 
> How many of our guns and equipment do the Taliban now have of ours? I read something like 6 billion worth.
> 
> ...



Trump lives on Twitter and is partially responsible for causing the mess by releasing tons of high ranking Taliban personnel from prison during his term, of course he's trying to make himself look better by blaming the new guy for the mess he left on the desk before he got voted out. It's been a GOP tactic for the past few decades after all.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I am not badmouthing Twitter. I'm saying @Valwinz mostly doesn't do anything but shitpost unsubstantiated claims from Twitter without actually making any points himself.
> 
> He seems to think something is automatically true if it's on Twitter.



I mean if your going to complain about video footage of people falling from planes as unsubstantiated or a deep fake just because it was uploaded by a private citizen your going to have to demonstrate that.

Grownups are entirely capable of seeing who the source is and examining further if need be.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> But Biden is the one who is in charge now, when this whole shit show happened.
> 
> How many of our guns and equipment do the Taliban now have of ours? I read something like 6 billion worth.
> 
> ...




wait SO We can understand 
YOUR POSTION is that *TRUMP F#$KEDUP *so bad by* signing  a International Binding Agreement with the Taliban *without the Afghan government to _*WITHDRAW Almost all US TROOPS ,*_ That Biden should of Void the Deal Completely?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Grownups are entirely capable of seeing who the source is and examining further if need be.


lol do your own Research !


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Secretary of State Blinken JULY 7 so you can see the level of lies this Admin was up to

Let the Biden kids cry they had nothing everything has been documented they cant spin this

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/alexsalvinews/status/1426882826088165377


----------



## MasterJ360 (Aug 16, 2021)

Honestly our troops should have never been there in the 1st place.... All this bickering about who took credit 1st yada yada yada.. this problem runs deeper than that over a decade with George W. Bush


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Grownups are entirely capable of seeing who the source is and examining further if need be.


Tell @Valwinz that.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Secretary of State Blinken JULY 7 so you can see the level of lies this Admin was up to
> 
> Let the Biden kids cry they had nothing everything has been documented they cant spin this


No Spin needs.." LOOK at the TWEETS"






 [/QUOTE]


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> wait SO We can understand
> YOUR POSTION is that *TRUMP F#$KEDUP *so bad by* signing  a International Binding Agreement with the Taliban *without the Afghan government to _*WITHDRAW Almost all US TROOPS ,*_ That Biden should of Void the Deal Completely?
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> ...



Trump tonked it so bad that in 4 years that he was president no one of those extremist wanted to poke him

He made a deal to avoid cities being taken and avoid a bloodbath. He even warned them that if they did harm any citizen he would take action. They didnt dare to poke him. Biden is just 8 months in and his credibility has been crushed. They have seen it now and they see that he show weakness. Extremist said they wouldn't destroy or seize and Biddn just destroyed that. Those poor people are at the mercy of good kindness.

Kamala is trying to distance herself from this mess.  There are around 10,000 westerners in Afghanistan now, i pray to almighty God that they get out safely.


----------



## Localhorst86 (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> what does this have to do with Biden Afghanistan ?  also you live in Germany lol


You do realize that the internet is a global medium and people outside your country can also see what's going on?

Your "oldmanbad" rederick you're showing here is even worse than the 4 years of "orangemanbad" we had before.

Get over yourself, the entire world fucked up afghanistan. Germany pulled out it's troops months ago, now our politicians are like "well, this is awkward".


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Trump tonked it so bad that in 4 years that he was president no one of those extremist wanted to poke him
> 
> He made a deal to avoid cities being taken and avoid a bloodbath. He even warned them that if they did harm any citizen he would take action. They didnt dare to poke him. Biden is just 8 months in and his credibility has been crushed. Those have seen it now and they see that he show weakness. Extremist said they wouldn't destroy or seize and Biddn just destroyed that. Those poor people are at the mercy of good kindness.
> 
> Kamala is trying to distance herself from this mess.  There are around 10,000 westerners in Afghanistan now, i pray to almighty God that they get out safely.


soo "*TRUMP F#$KEDUP *so bad ....That Biden should of Void the Deal Completely?" Gotcha


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Here  we are just as i predicted and people here :Lacius: told me and others much international pressure

China tells Taiwan that THE USA won't help you and the proof is Afghanistan. The damage Biden has inflicted not sure if it can even be repaired.

#环球时报Editorial: From what happened in Afghanistan, those in Taiwan should perceive that once a war breaks out in the Straits, the island’s defense will collapse in hours and US military won’t come to help. As a result, the DPP will quickly surrender.  https://t.co/ZUrZmcsSWf pic.twitter.com/wFG4vrHbTo— Global Times (@globaltimesnews) August 16, 2021


----------



## spotanjo3 (Aug 16, 2021)

@Valwinz

You are being silly! Not just him and you got wrong name. Its "Joe" Biden. Not Jesus.  All are the corrupt, period!


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Here  we are just as i predicted and people here :Lacius: told me and others much international pressure
> 
> China tells Taiwan that THE USA won't help you and the proof is Afghanistan. The damage Biden has inflicted not sure if it can even be repaired.
> 
> https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1427267130467119104


Wait are you literary retweeting CCP propaganda ?
lol that s Great!!  Valwinz has finally relieved His Benefactors


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Wait are you literary retweeting CCP propaganda ?


Im posting the CCP  Openly telling Taiwan your boy Biden won't do shit

Notice the CCP said 'once a war breaks out'


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> soo "*TRUMP F#$KEDUP *so bad ....That Biden should of Void the Deal Completely?" Gotcha



Trump didn't made things bad. He tried to negociate for the safety of its citizens, he did care. Biden just left overnight, leaving billions worth of weaponery, so who did tonked here? Biden botched its withdrawal, even his highest commands admits it. A few weeks ago he was commenting, its unlikely that the extremist will take Afghanistan, then he said it wil take 60 days for Kabul to fall, and look now this whole potato mess. Is this Trumps fault? HE (Biden) made the decision, even when he was told not to do so. He wanted just to show the world that Trump was wrong, and failed there. First thing he did when he went into the white House is going after Trump, taking everything what he did.

So who is to blame for this mess? The responsibility lies on Bidens administration. It could have been very different had he not done the horrible decision that he made.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Im posting the CCP  Openly telling Taiwan your boy Biden won't do shit
> 
> Notice the CCP said 'once a war breaks out'


..I apologize. Your not a CCP Shill..  Your just Susceptible to any bullshit Propaganda you see on Tweets

This one Must Keep you up at nigh
Listen we all know Tupac is still alive— 𝕡𝕒𝕘𝕖 𝕨/ 𝕒𝕟 𝕚 (@PaigeZuber) August 10, 2021


--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DoubleDate said:


> Trump didn't made things bad. He tried to negociate for the safety of its citizens, he did care. Biden just left overnight, leaving billions worth of weaponery, so who did tonked here? Biden botched its withdrawal, even his highest commands admits it. A few weeks ago he was commenting, its unlikely that the extremist will take Afghanistan, then he said it wil take 60 days for Kabul to fall, and look now this whole potato mess. Is this Trumps fault? HE (Biden) made the decision, even when he was told not to do so. He wanted just to show the world that Trump was wrong, and failed there. First thing he did when he went into the white House is going after Trump, taking everything what he did.
> 
> So who is to blame for this mess? The responsibility lies on Bidens administration. It could have been very different had he not done the horrible decision that he made.


...he advocated for Troop Withdrawal by 2020.. When the Military stated thats Impossible he Threw a Hissy fit and pushed it for May 2021..


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> ..I apologize. Your not a CCP Shill..  Your just Susceptible to any bullshit Propaganda you see on Tweets
> 
> This one Must Keep you up at nigh
> https://twitter.com/PaigeZuber/status/1425134756786806789
> ...



Yes he indeed planned to get out, but he did have a BACKUP plan. The extremist knew their place, they wouldn't have dared to poke Trump because he wasn't someone who they didn't want to mess with. They knew any aggresive attack would result in any counter attack. That is why for 4 years we didnt hear any uprising in the middle east. Trump had a plan, the extremist agreed that US handed the situation over to the Aghan authorities. Biden just ignored everything, went against it and left everything. I fully agree, the troops withdrawal was a good point, but how Biden handled it, its just a total failure.

Extremist warned Biden that they would take the city in 2 weeks, he said nopes unlikely to happen and now you know how it turned out.

All Biden needed to do was to plan a good strategy, a good planning to help its people instead of abandoning them to their luck.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

simply horrible there is no excuse to this  Biden should litteraly resing at this point 
Just received a first hand account that the Taliban have already started going house to house in Kabul to look for any Afghan Special Forces who fought alongside the US military. The Taliban have all the records of those who served from the KKA (AFG Special Forces).— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) August 16, 2021


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Yes he indeed planned to get out, but he did have a BACKUP plan. The extremist knew their place, they wouldn't have dared to poke Trump because he wasn't someone who they didn't want to mess with. They knew any aggresive attack would result in any counter attack. That is why for 4 years we didnt hear any uprising in the middle east. Trump had a plan, the extremist agreed that US handed the situation over to the Aghan authorities. Biden just ignored everything, went against it and left everything. I fully agree, the troops withdrawal was a good point, but how Biden handled it, its just a total failure.
> 
> Extremist warned Biden that they would take the city in 2 weeks, he said nopes unlikely to happen and now you know how it turned out.
> 
> All Biden needed to do was to plan a good strategy, a good planning to help its people instead of abandoning them to their luck.


"a BACKUP plan" "Trump had a plan" 
Wow Hey Guys we have a Trump Admin staff... Because other then the Signed Taliban Agreement TRUMP signed Silliy Nilly, There was no plan 
April 2021-" Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is "a wonderful and positive thing to do," he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that "we should keep as close to that schedule as possible."
Axois did an Amazing Piece, Explaining Trumps non-plan and Generals Push back
*Trump's war with his generals*


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Biden supporters having a tough time today finding out screaming chud and incel and whining about Trump isn't working like it used to and shielding him from withering criticism.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> "a BACKUP plan" "Trump had a plan"
> Wow Hey Guys we have a Trump Admin staff... Because other then the Signed Taliban Agreement TRUMP signed Silliy Nilly, There was no plan
> April 2021-" Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is "a wonderful and positive thing to do," he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that "we should keep as close to that schedule as possible."
> Axois did an Amazing Piece, Explaining Trumps non-plan and Generals Push back
> *Trump's war with his generals*



Why are you so in denial? Dont cry when things go really really bad and the extremist will be dealing damage to Europe.

You still cant explain why during the 4 years that Trump was in power there were no sight of aggresive take over from any extremist groups. Biden is just 8 months in and the extremist dont give a flying rat about Biden, because they know he is weak en he wouldn't retailiate and carry out airstrikes, they know that otherwise Afghanistan wouldn't have been a botched situation. They are already executing people there, won't be long until gross articles will appear on gross sites about what they do to the people they consider its not good.

If they were againts all kind of harm and killing no one wouldn't be so worried, those people use fear to destroy.

Trump tried to avoid what has happened now in Afghanistan. That is what you people dont understand. Blaming everything on Trump yet many dont see how many people will suffer under those extremist.

Everyone blaming Trump, but dont point out that Biden cancelled everything what Trump tried to do, and now that he botched Afghanistan (Biden) blaming him to wash their own hands of this terrible case.

People need to accept that Biden made a huge failure of judgement and this will have consequences.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> I don't understand why people cannot see the pattern that is clearly here related to this administration.
> 
> Is everyone blaming Trump for US major border issues with Mexico?
> 
> ...


Because Biden inherited a DUMPSTER FIRE..  400,000 dead American in 2 year ( the most American non war Deaths).. Economy the lowest since 2008 recession. Horrible International deals (talliban, Russian Spy) that weaken USA Global standing...
There so much Biden Admin can Fix in 8 Months...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

especially when Trump Purposely  set it so Biden could not Change it Without Destroying US Creditability

Trump on Afghanistan, June 26, 2021:"I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn't stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don't we think? 21 years. [The Biden admin] couldn't stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop."— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 16, 2021


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Biden has not fixed anything in 8 months.


Soo you agree..


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> That's what you got from my post?
> 
> Not even a decent attempt at deflection.
> 
> ...


So your saying Biden is a horrible President because he could not fix the mess he inherited from Trumps admin?


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> You still cant explain why during the 4 years that Trump was in power there were no sight of aggresive take over from any extremist groups.



Trump set the date the troops would be pulled out. That is a pretty solid explanation. It's not all Trump's fault though, there are 20 years of failings. Biden isn't even mostly to blame.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Cant wrap my mind of how people are still defending Biden after this horrible case. The denials should go to Afghanistan and see what those people are experiencing now. They talk like that because they are not affected and are comfy in their chairs while the people there are in such horrible fear. If it was Trump that botched it there would mass protest about people wanting him out of the white House. Were are the protestors? The human activist? The Hollywood stars cry? Deafening silence from everywhere. The one in this mess are the poor abandoned people who have trusted and put all their hope in the US government to help them out without any bloodshed.

This is total on Biden. Biden followers are still ignoring the part where his most highest commands told him not to do what he did, he ignored everything. They cant even explain why Kamala Harris is distancing herself from this mess. Even the part that he was on a vacacion trip while whole Afghanistan was on the fall shows how important it is to him.

Unfortunately, extremist have seen now how weak this administration is, embrace yourself the upcoming 3 years, its going to be bad.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> So you agree Biden and his administration cannot make things better.
> 
> Got it.



In Afghanistan, no.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> So you agree Biden and his administration cannot make things better.
> 
> Got it.


Well by salting the Earth as Trump left, does not really help..
but there you go ...The last 50 year of President Admins have really done help to actually Help...


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Cant wrap my mind of how people are still defending Biden after this horrible case.



Defending him for what? Not realizing that the Afghanistan army would disappear so quickly as the Taliban advanced?

I'm not sure what you would have him do differently in 8 months that even the last 20 years hasn't achieved?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



DoubleDate said:


> Unfortunately, extremist have seen now how weak this administration is, embrace yourself the upcoming 3 years, its going to be bad.



America has always been weak, they show this when they are at war and when they are not at war.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Unfortunately, extremist have seen now how weak this administration is, embrace yourself the upcoming 3 years, its going to be bad. Biden


MAGA still really does not Get it. Biden Did not WIN because HE was going to "the Best President"
Biden only won because he was going Against TRUMP (period)...
Most People don't Love Biden.. They just Hate TRUMP that much.
This Goat Would of Got More Votes Than Trump
*Dog and goat serving as mayor raise money for a playground




*


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> Defending him for what? Not realizing that the Afghanistan army would disappear so quickly as the Taliban advanced?
> 
> I'm not sure what you would have him do differently in 8 months that even the last 20 years hasn't achieved?



He was told not to take such actions, he should've NOT abandoned the people like that. This all couldve been avoided had he done a good properly retreat plan. He just toke everyone out without any notice, he withdrew without putting the safety of the people first.

Even the Afghan authorities were baffled by what happened. To avoid mass killings the Afghan army gave up, at least the loyal ones. Biden couldve retreated its people first instead of what he did. This is what will be on him. 

Trump defnitely wouldn't have allowed what happened, there is no way that Afghanistan would've fallen so fast. The idea was to give the power to the Afghan authorities, Biden just bolted and left everyone on their own. It was so botched that all important files needed to be burned. It was a very bad bad strategic exit.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> LoL most people don't love Biden.
> 
> Probably the only realistic thing I have read from you so far.
> 
> Thanks


I beg to differ .. "This Goat Would of Got More Votes Than Trump" 
is way more Realistic


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> MAGA still really does not Get it. Biden Did not WIN because HE was going to "the Best President"
> Biden only won because he was going Against TRUMP (period)...
> Most People don't Love Biden.. They just Hate TRUMP that much.
> This Goat Would of Got More Votes Than Trump
> ...



Mate you are the only one that i know that praises Biden so much. No one i know is for Trump or Biden, but at least during the 4 years of Trump we werent dealing with this kind of stuff.

Just admit that Biden made a very bad strategic choice, he could've prevented this.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Trump defnitely wouldn't have allowed what happened,


Yea he was planing on all this happening by Xmas


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Yea he was planing on all this happening by XmasView attachment 273231



Mate you are still over repeating the same Twitter messages about Trump. Did you even care to read the backup plan he had? The idea was to give the Afghan authorities the power after them leaving, the extremist agreed with it. Trump also said that any aggresive attacks he would take action. The extremist understood that.

What did Biden do? Abandoning whole Afghanistan, even with his citizens in it. We wouldn't have seen what we have seen the past few days if he was still the president (Trump). As i said im deffo not a Trump fan neither a Biden fan, but it doesn't look good with this Biden administration.

Again, if nothing is done, they will come for Europe, and then what? Europeans mass Emigration to the American continent. Those people need someone who can keep them in check or everything is going to fall like domino stones.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> the problem I have with your logic Panda is you ignore basically all logic when making statements like this.
> 
> Joe had recommendations from people that know this stuff, he also had intelligence reports that would have indicated this would be a very bad idea.  Yet he told the American people 1.5 months ago when people suggested this could be bad, that there is NO WAY it will be bad.  He is supposed to be an expert on this kind of stuff.
> 
> ...


Wait When did we stop Using Tweets as Undeniable Proof of Stuff...  Shit we got to Let the VAL anD Jimbo know!! They still using the Old Standard


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Mate you are still over repeating the same Twitter messages about Trump. Did you even care to read the backup plan he had? The idea was to give the Afghan authorities the power after them leaving, the extremist agreed with it. Trump also said that any aggresive attacks he would take action. The extremist understood that.
> 
> What did Biden do? Abandoning whole Afghanistan, even with his citizens in it. We wouldn't have seen what we have seen the past few days if he was still the president (Trump). As i said im deffo not a Trump fan neither a Biden fan, but it doesn't look good with this Biden administration.
> 
> Again, if nothing is done, they will come for Europe, and then what? Europeans mass Emigration to the American continent. Those people need someone who can keep them in check or everything is going to fall like domino stones.


It was only three weeks ago that Trump said the following:

"All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process."

So, if Trump is being truthful, everything is his fault, not Biden's.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It was only three weeks ago that Trump said the following:
> 
> "All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process."
> 
> So, if Trump is being truthful, everything is his fault, not Biden's.



Still ignoring the fact that he made a deal to prevent mass casualties like its happening now. Trump made lots of Twitter post  yet you people use the one that fits more to your own purposes. Where is the twitter post were he said he wanted to make a deal? Nopes Biden followers dont care about that because it doesnt fit in the purpose that they are spreading.

He made plans, but as time passes by new intelligence comes in, meaning new strategic plans. Let be really be serious here, Trump would've never let happened what Biden allowed to happen under his watch.

Biden was advised not to make a such retreat, he was told not to do that yet he did and now Afghanistan is a whole cluster mess.

Did you hear anything about uprising extremist during Trumps presidency? Me neither.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> he made a deal to prevent mass casualties like its happening now.


 May I ask what language is Written Exactly that express this statement on the Withdraw agreement that Trump signed?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



nintendo19 said:


> If you are suggesting Trump making a comment when he is NOT the current president and lacks the current intelligence makes him responsible f


So your Defense is Trump is talking "out of His Ass"?
 but that cant be right ?? He's the Mastermind that Signed the Agreement for USA RETREAT?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

and


nintendo19 said:


> Biden had the intelligence when the comment was made, Trump did not.
> 
> If you are suggesting Trump making a comment when he is NOT the current president and lacks the current intelligence makes him responsible


I don't know how to tell you this but as EX president Trump does get
*Presidential INTEL Brief WHENEVER THEY WANT!*
So Trump Either Knows Whats Happening (because he has access to the info) and say those comments to knowing its going to make Biden and American looks bad,  or B. does not check shit and is Talking out of his ass


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> May I ask what language is Written Exactly that express this statement on the Withdraw agreement that Trump signed?



The extremist and Trump agreed on a more approachable humane withdrawal without any killing or seizing. The extremist were in favour of leaving the country on the hands of the Afghan authorities. The purpose was for a stable power exchange.

Biden just lapped it under his boots and did against All advice in the withdrawal. The extremist warned Biden to leave but for unknown reasons Biden set the leave plan to September what upset the extremist and took they control. This All could've been prevented. Every thing that they said now ( Biden administration) has failed. They abandoned the people and expexted the whole country to fight, things backfired on him.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> The extremist and Trump agreed on a more approachable humane withdrawal without any killing or seizing. The extremist wwre in favour of leaving the country on the hands of the Afghan authorities. The purpose was fo a stable power exchange.
> 
> Biden just lapped it under his boots and did against All advice in the withdrawal. The extremist warned Biden to leave but for unknown reasons Biden set the leave plan to September what upset the extremist and took control. This All could've been prevented. Every that they  said now ( Biden administration) has failed. They abandoned the people and expexted the whole country to fight, things backfired on him.


Still did not answer the Question 
What Language Writing on the Agreement states that..


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Still ignoring the fact that he made a deal to prevent mass casualties like its happening now. Trump made lots of Twitter post  yet you people use the one that fits more to your own purposes. Where is the twitter post were he said he wanted to make a deal? Nopes Biden followers dont care about that because it doesnt fit in the purpose that they are spreading.
> 
> He made plans, but as time passes by new intelligence comes in, meaning new strategic plans. Let be really be serious here, Trump would've never let happened what Biden allowed to happen under his watch.
> 
> ...


Are we talking about the deal that freed thousands of Taliban soldiers, including many of those who are causing the violence in Afghanistan and the likely new ruler? Are we talking about the same deal that empowered the Taliban right before the withdrawal?



nintendo19 said:


> Biden had the intelligence when the comment was made, Trump did not.
> 
> If you are suggesting Trump making a comment when he is NOT the current president and lacks the current intelligence makes him responsible for all of Bidens mistakes related to this, then that is not fair.
> 
> ...


You seem to be ignoring the part where Trump said the withdrawal couldn't have been stopped. Are you saying Trump's words are bullshit? Thanks for finally coming around.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Trump defnitely wouldn't have allowed what happened, there is no way that Afghanistan would've fallen so fast.



It would have played out pretty much the same, the taliban have been waiting for 20 years.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Still did not answer the Question
> What Language Writing on the Agreement states that..



There are a few links. This one of them:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/world/asia/us-taliban-deal.html

It was suppossed to be something different than we mess we are in now.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> Are we talking about the deal that freed thousands of Taliban soldiers, including many of those who are causing the violence in Afghanistan and the likely new ruler? Are we talking about the same deal that empowered the Taliban right before the withdrawal?
> 
> 
> You seem to be ignoring the part where Trump said the withdrawal couldn't have been stopped. Are you saying Trump's words are bullshit? Thanks for finally coming around.



The part of the deal was in exchange for 1000 goverment people held by the extremist, that was the reason of the deal and why it came up. The extremist agreed to release 1000 of held hostages of the government forces. Dont know why people dont look more further into it than just thinking thatthey were released for simple just being released, like the US did it on purpose.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Yet he told the American people 1.5 months ago when people suggested this could be bad, that there is NO WAY it will be bad.



I don't think that is what he said.

_U.S. President Joe Biden had said last month that a takeover of Afghanistan by the Taliban was not inevitable after the troop pullout from the country,_

Inevitable is 100% chance. All he said was that there was a chance that the Taliban wouldn't take over Afghanistan, not that there was no way they would.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> It would have played out pretty much the same, the taliban have been waiting for 20 years.



Tell that to Soleimani, one of the most highest generals killed in Iran. Do you think they would've dared to poke him after he didnt bother to take out a high ranking person like that? Trump would've send bombs in until they understood. No way things would've gone like that.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> There are a few links. This one of them:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/world/asia/us-taliban-deal.html
> 
> It was suppossed to be something different than we mess we are in now.


The article  just states Trump Promised to Leave the Country and release 5000 Taliban Troops if the Taliban Plays Nice... Thats not a Commitment at al. So You linked an article that states Trump signed withdraw from the Country on "a Dollar and a Dream" Mentality.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> that was the reason of the deal and why it came up.



It seems the republicans are embarrassed about the deal.

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-removes-webpage-praising-trumps-historic-peace-deal-taliban-1619605

There was nothing that Joe Biden could realistically do. Trump knew when he signed it what would happen and that he wouldn't be in office when it did. It's just a re-election ploy.

Trump doesn't care if some Afghans get killed and opportunities are taken away from all the women in the country, as long as he ends up back in the white house. Sad!

Biden actually missed the 135 day deadline set by Trump to remove troops, it shouldn't have been a surprise when the Troops left. The only alternative would have been to send more troops, which Trump had already closed off by accusing Joe Biden being a warmonger earlier in the year.

Trump is the founder of the Taliban, there are no limits to how low he will stoop.


----------



## linuxares (Aug 16, 2021)

Honestly, any President with the headache that is the Afghanwar would get bad press. Heck Obama wanted them out.
The problem is Afghanistan is not a country really, it's a collective of tribes.


----------



## grandgroove (Aug 16, 2021)

Four presidents floated this horrid embarrassment - two Democrat, two Republican. This is not partisan. Twenty years, an Iraqi power vacuum that birthed ISIS, Afghanistan completely reclaimed.

To think of all of the death, displacement, permanent change for tens of millions - all for naught - I have no problem admitting that I make it a point not to let the notion go too deep.

Please, please, please - put the personal politics aside on this. It is ultimately an incredibly tragic event that has burned into the face of history, and the US government wildly mismanaged the whole thing.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> If this did not happen under Trump there is no reason to think it would have happened under him now and he would have the insight he does not currently have.
> 
> Regardless of if the withdrawal could not be stopped, Biden is on the hook for what/how it played out.
> 
> ...


"Biden is on the hook for the withdrawal, even if it was unstoppable." Lol, okay.



DoubleDate said:


> There are a few links. This one of them:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/world/asia/us-taliban-deal.html
> 
> It was suppossed to be something different than we mess we are in now.
> ...


It sounds like you need to do more reading about Trump's negotiations with the Taliban:
https://time.com/5794643/trumps-disgraceful-peace-deal-taliban/

As the article put it, Trump made "concrete concessions in exchange for unenforceable promises from an untrustworthy enemy." If the Trump concessions to the Taliban hadn't happened, there's a good chance the mess that's happening now would have happened much later.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

It's very simple,  Trump is a man and if the Taliban had pulled this crap while he was in office they knew they're would of been repercussions.  The Taliban knew they could pull this because Biden is a limp wrist-ed beta who needs help to finish his applesauce and he would do nothing.

All of the great peace makers are hard ass's who everyone knows will wipe them out,  Carter was laughed at while Nixon got more peace deals done than any other President in modern history.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

grandgroove said:


> Five presidents floated this horrid embarrassment - three Democract, two Republican. This is not partisan. Twenty years, an Iraqi power vacuum that birthed ISIS, Afghanistan completely reclaimed.
> 
> To think of all of the death, displacement, permanent change for tens of millions - all for naught - I have no problem admitting that I make it a point not to let the notion go too deep.
> 
> Please, please, please - put the personal politics aside on this. It is ultimately an incredibly tragic event that has burned into the face of history, and the US government wildly mismanaged the whole thing.


 I agree with your statement but there only have then 4 presidents since the start in 2001.. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden...??

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> It's very simple,  Trump is a man


So your saying a woman would not be able to do this?


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan.  It is not at all comparable.



Did you see people lifted off the roof of the embassy?

As far as I know they drove to the airport.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It was only three weeks ago that Trump said the following:
> 
> "All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process."
> 
> So, if Trump is being truthful, everything is his fault, not Biden's.



Nope not even a little bit. US troops needed to get out? Yes absolutely. 21 years was enough? Yes absolutely. It was inevitable, unstoppable that we were going to leave? Yes absolutely.

But did the withdrawal have to be this poorly planned an executed? With tons of fully operational military weapons, ammo, vehicles, and aircraft left behind for the Taliban to use. With thousands of people who had assisted us abandoned to Taliban retribution? With shameful images and video of incompetent withdrawal operations all over the internet, which ARE damaging to national security. 

Nope. That's on Biden.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> It's very simple,  Trump is a man and if the Taliban had pulled this crap while he was in office they knew they're would of been repercussions.



All reports are that Trump was born with (small) male genitalia, but I'm not sure how that would have made a difference.

Trump would have tweeted the shit out of the Taliban, but I'm not sure how that would have helped either.



Hanafuda said:


> With tons of fully operational military weapons, ammo, vehicles, and aircraft left behind for the Taliban to use.



You think the US should have confiscated the Afghanistan army's weapons and vehicles? How would that have helped?

_Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger has hit out at members of his party for trying to present the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan as solely Joe Biden’s fault, warning that “real Americans won’t forget” the Trump administration’s role in the US drawdown in the Middle East._


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Nope not even a little bit. US troops needed to get out? Yes absolutely. 21 years was enough? Yes absolutely. It was inevitable, unstoppable that we were going to leave? Yes absolutely.
> 
> But did the withdrawal have to be this poorly planned an executed? With tons of fully operational military weapons, ammo, vehicles, and aircraft left behind for the Taliban to use. With thousands of people who had assisted us abandoned to Taliban retribution? With shameful images and video of incompetent withdrawal operations all over the internet, which ARE damaging to national security.
> 
> Nope. That's on Biden.




This ^^.   Guarantee you if they were more coked out pictures of Hunter with prostitutes Biden would of remembered to tell someone to burn the paperwork.


What a difference a day makes.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> "Biden is on the hook for the withdrawal, even if it was unstoppable." Lol, okay.
> 
> 
> It sounds like you need to do more reading about Trump's negotiations with the Taliban:
> ...



Im full aware of what its purpose is. Yet in the 4 years thaf he was at the helm not a single one fo then dared to do compromising things because they knew that Trump wouldn't sit quiet and do nothing. 

The deal may have been not perfect bit at least he would keep track of the extremist. Now they are all loose on the whole lot doing murdering things left and right.

If you guys keep defending the whole thing why dont you pack and go there? Lets see how long you will stay there wishing to go back to your own comfy place. 

Cannot believe that people are still attacking Trump, yet the one who made the whole mess in the first place is Biden. As i said earlier, Kamala Harris is distancing herself from all this hot mess. Why? Its simple, Biden botched it and she doesn't want to take the fall for it.

People cant still explain why during Trumps presidency no extremist dared to do a thing. 

Afghanistan was betrayed and left to its mercy, end of story. We could argue all we want the fact is that now innocent people, young girls, woman, men are being murdered or kept as slaves.

All we heard the last few weeks from Biden was: Its unlikely that the extremist will take Afghanistan, decided to leave abruptly leaving high tech behind and well Afghanistan is no longer a safe place for women or men who would like to live their lives freelance.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Im full aware of what its purpose is. Yet in the 4 years thaf he was at the helm not a single one fo then dared to do compromising things because they knew that Trump wouldn't sit quiet and do nothing.



They did "compromising" things, they just weren't effective as the US had troops there.

Trump set the timescale for removing those troops and made it impossible for Joe Biden to commit more troops.

And now blames Joe Biden for it, that is what a sad loser does.

And you are gaslighting.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Yup soo sad that Some of Presidents Children have become Addicts..
Donald Trump Jr says he "totally understands Addiction"


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> With thousands of people who had assisted us abandoned to Taliban retribution? With shameful images and video of incompetent withdrawal operations all over the internet, which ARE damaging to national security.



Are you saying that when the troops left, they should have forcibly removed Afghans who had worked with the US army from their country?


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> All reports are that Trump was born with (small) male genitalia, but I'm not sure how that would have made a difference.
> 
> Trump would have tweeted the shit out of the Taliban, but I'm not sure how that would have helped either.
> 
> ...



Mate was that necessary? Seriously? Talking about Trumps junk? How low can you go if you dont agree with someone. Can you at least keep things in a good manner? Because that doesn't add any revelancy to what is going on here.

Im aware now that you and the other guy have a vendetta against Trump for no reason. He was doing what was the best for the US.

Biden was instructed NOT to handle Afghanistan the way he did. So why all the blame on Trump since Biden rejected all of Trumps policies?

Well, you people will sweat your own words when those extremist will be hitting close to home.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> This ^^.   Guarantee you if they were more coked out pictures of Hunter with prostitutes Biden would of remembered to tell someone to burn the paperwork.



Considering there was video in the news recently of naked Hunter with naked prostitute smoking crack and talking about the Russians having a bunch of freaky porn and drug videos of him (blackmail leverage), Uncle Joe ain't been doing much of a job of putting that fire out, either.


----------



## grandgroove (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> I agree with your statement but there only have then 4 presidents since the start in 2001.. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden...??
> 
> - I'm over here just doing math, not thinking of Obama's two terms. Thanks for that correction. I'm going to update OP.
> 
> Take care!


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Mate was that necessary? Seriously? Talking about Trumps junk? How low can you go if you dont agree with someone. Can you at least keep things in a good manner? Because that doesn't add any revelatncy to what is going on here.



You were the one that bought up his gender, whether he has a penis or vagina is irrelevant. Why did you mention it?



DoubleDate said:


> Biden was instructed NOT to handle Afghanistan the way he did. So why all the blame on Trump since Biden rejected all of Trumps policies?



Trump made it impossible for Joe Biden to do anything. Had more people voted for Trump so that he won the election then Trump wouldn't have made the deal (for another four years, to make his successor look bad).


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> Trump made it impossible for Joe Biden to do anything. Had more people voted for Trump so he won the election then Trump wouldn't have made the deal, for another four years.



Biden voted for the war,  Deployed 5000 additional troops, extended the Trump time line, still managed to completely fail even the basics of torching paperwork and disabling weapons.

This catastrophe is a result of Biden and no one else.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Biden voted for the war,  Deployed 5000 additional troops, extended the Trump time line, still managed to completely fail even the basics of torching paperwork and disabling weapons.
> 
> This catastrophe is a result of Biden and no one else.



What weapons are you talking about? This is ALL on Trump.

Joe Biden seems to have been on top of the documents.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...edding-burning-documents-in-case-taliban-wins


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> You were the one that bought up his gender, whether he has a penis or vagina is irrelevant. Why did you mention it?
> 
> 
> 
> Trump made it impossible for Joe Biden to do anything. Had more people voted for Trump so that he won the election then Trump wouldn't have made the deal (for another four years, to make his successor look bad).



Now you are reaching. Where did i say something about Trumps genitalia? Wow mate, now im inclining to believe that you are just post things and forget about it (No disrespect). I never said anything about that.

How do you know Trump wouldn't make the deal? Do you have a magic ball? To make who bad? He wouldve have found a way to keep the deal since he was and is the ONLY president in history to actieve a few historics goal like going to North Korea for talks. I dont see Biden doing that mate.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> What weapons are you talking about? This is ALL on Trump.
> 
> Joe Biden seems to have been on top of the documents.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...edding-burning-documents-in-case-taliban-wins



Maybe you should turn on some real fucking news and look at the footage of them posing with surface to air batteries and F15s while waiving around lists of collaborators instead of feigning stupidity.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Biden voted for the war,  Deployed 5000 additional troops, extended the Trump time line, still managed to completely fail even the basics of torching paperwork and disabling weapons.
> 
> This catastrophe is a result of Biden and no one else.


Wait lOLOLOLOL
First your mad because BIDEN followed Trumps Agreement and left the Country... but now your mad because it tried to delay it?


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Now you are reaching. Where did i say something about Trumps genitalia?



You said he was "a man", I thought male genitalia was your lots definition of that. Are you saying he is identifying as a man?



DoubleDate said:


> How do you know Trump wouldn't make the deal?



He did make the deal, this is the result of the deal.

Trump intended for this to happen.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> You said he was "a man", I thought male genitalia was your lots definition of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Demonstrably false.   The Presidementia on 8/16 is Sleepy Joe Blinken, and he was more than eager to claim this all a result of his actions.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> You think the US should have confiscated the Afghanistan army's weapons and vehicles? How would that have helped?_._




Confiscate or render nonfunctioning. Yes we should have. And now, too late, we're still trying to by sending B-52's to bomb the aircraft (fighter jets, cargo jets, attack helicopters) and airstrips where they were parked.

How would that have helped?? Are you dense? There is no Afghanistan army anymore. All those US military weapons, ammo, vehicles, etc will now be used by the Taliban. This is the biggest military/diplomatic clusterfuck so far of the 21st century.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> You said he was "a man", I thought male genitalia was your lots definition of that. Are you saying he is identifying as a man?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What does genitalia have to do anything with this conversation mate, cant you just be normal and add things that are important than just looking for ways on how to insult? I mean, come one, that is low.

This is the result of the deal? No its not, not in a million years. If Biden wouldve followed what Trump wouldve done then the extremist wouldn't gone into town seizing in killing innocents in the process.

The extremist wouldn't even dared to do what they did if Trump was in charge. They know Trump is a person to take action (See the Soleimani story) 

Biden botched it completely, is that hard to understand? EVEN  Kamala Harris admits this, so who are you kidding? Denial, denial.


----------



## Viri (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> This ^^.   Guarantee you if they were more coked out pictures of Hunter with prostitutes Biden would of remembered to tell someone to burn the paperwork.
> 
> 
> What a difference a day makes.


"They're chanting "Death to America" but they seem friendly" Yeah, if she took off that burka, she'd be marrying one of the Taliban fighters, or stoned.

At least they found a way to surpass their old meme.


Spoiler


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

I knew Biden was going to try to blame everyone else, but throwing the allies you just abandoned further under the bus for the disaster he created is horrible.

Again i Just love this he is literally blaming everyone else Holy shit


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> I knew Biden was going to try to blame everyone else, but throwing the allies you just abandoned further under the bus for the disaster he created is horrible.
> 
> Again i Just love this he is literally blaming everyone else Holy shit


Wait I thought You Fought for "America First"


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

No questions from the press holy shit this was one of the worst least inspiring speeches I've ever seen

Blames the people dying, blames Trump for himself messing up the plan is quite amazing also He is going back to his vacation HAHAHAHAH

all this while people are failing off planes what a Disaster


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 16, 2021)

There are some heat going on here on comments, I'll ignore that and tell my opinion about the President's decision.

I was a dumb decision, extremely dumb. And the fact that the withdraw began with previous administration is not excuse, because he is allowed to change any decision or plan prior to his term (I believe Biden got majority on the parliament or whatever it is called on USA, so it is even easier). Now China and Russia will feed their geopolitical power with the leftovers.

And no, I am not a Trump supporter, as matter of fact Trump is the second alive human being that I hate most (just after the current Brazil's president).


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> No questions from the press holy shit this was one of the worst least inspiring speeches I've ever seen
> 
> Blames the people dying, blames Trump for himself messing up the plan is quite amazing also He is going back to his vacation HAHAHAHAH
> 
> all this while people are failing off planes what a Disaster


What did Biden say that was untrue? Please be specific.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



lokomelo said:


> There are some heat going on here on comments, I'll ignore that and tell my opinion about the President's decision.
> 
> I was a dumb decision, extremely dumb. And the fact that the withdraw began with previous administration is not excuse, because he is allowed to change any decision or plan prior to his term (I believe Biden got majority on the parliament or whatever it is called on USA, so it is even easier). Now China and Russia will feed their geopolitical power with the leftovers.
> 
> And no, I am not a Trump supporter, as matter of fact Trump is the second alive human being that I hate most (just after the current Brazil's president).


There was never going to be a good time to leave, but leaving was necessary.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius and Panda in Panic mode after that Disaster of a speech 

LOOK AT THIS 

this is what the Biden defense force here does not want you to see 
JUST IN: "The Crew made the decision to go" — Inside RCH 871, which saved 640 from the Taliban ... from @TaraCopp and me https://t.co/r4YvGqJZ4b pic.twitter.com/CI1mAmqjHT— Marcus Weisgerber (@MarcusReports) August 16, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Lacius and Panda in Panic mode after that Disaster of a speech
> 
> LOOK AT THIS
> 
> this is what the Biden defense force here does not want you to see


Are you unable to answer my question?


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Build Back Better Get Back to Camp David


----------



## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Lacius and Panda in Panic mode after that Disaster of a speech
> 
> LOOK AT THIS
> 
> ...


hmm Why does"Biden defense Force" does want you to see this... Biden has already announced Taking THOUSANDS out in the next couple of days.
 Im sick of Valwinz AntiAmerican sentiment on Forcing own Troop to Defence a Country that does not want to defend themselves . 
WE need to start thinking about "America First" and leave the nation the does not want to help themselves


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

If Biden wasn't going to take questions, why leave Camp David?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Build Back Better Get Back to Camp David


I'll take that as a "no."


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> There was never going to be a good time to leave, but leaving was necessary.


You should not have entered in the first place. It was a matter of doing a coup d'etat, like you always did every where (including here in Brazil). Now since you were inside, the least you should have done was to solve the problem that you use as excuse to get in.
(and I did not even mentioned that the Taliban is so strong thanks to USA's political games against USSR, so yeah, your mess, you should cleaned it).


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

djpannda said:


> hmm Why does"Biden defense Force" does want you to see this... Biden has already announced Taking THOUSANDS out in the next couple of days.
> Im sick of Valwinz AntiAmerican sentiment on Forcing own Troop to Defence a Country that does not want to defend themselves .
> WE need to start thinking about "America First" and leave the nation the does not want to help themselves



Yeah sure mate " Leave the nation that doesnt want help"

It will becoming a brewing ground for extremist, meaning it will be a threat to the west. 

For now you may think like that way, but until the first attacks against the west start, your opinion will change like lightning.

They will not sit there with crossed hands, they will look for ways to harm any western countries. Dont go look surprised when things hits the fan in Europe or the US. Those people want more than just a country. 

I do understand your point but this will lead to potential danger to citizens in western countries.

Do you think that they will just stay there? Mate something needs to be addressed and done or whole Afghanistan will be a whole yard of extremist. They need to know that if they harm others they need to be dealt with. 

This whole situation is a huge big pile of hot crab garbage.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 16, 2021)

Have been lurking on this forum for ages as am a retro game fan and its some of the ill educated baiting crap (the whole reason the thread was started) on this thats convinced me to set up an account even for a short time.

Biden was 100 per cent correct. In fact hes following through on what Trump started and amazingly for that waste of organs it was the correct decision. It was insane to stay so long in the first place. He also explicitly did NOT blame Trump , mentioning the war was going on with two Democrats and two Republican presidents. There was never going to be a good time to leave so early doors Biden has decided to swallow the bitter pill and get it over with. The rapidity of the collapse proves him right, it was a house of cards built on sand and kept on life support by the US/NATO. The point about weapons being left behind is legit if correct but tbh there was never going to be a perfect way for anyone out of it.

No more American solders now need to die far from home. A new way of operating that doesnt put American solders at risk is being developed built on diplomacy. The Trump supporters I talked to in other places over the years in fact have gotten what they asked for. Fair play Joe Biden, he had the balls to follow through on it. You would think people on this forum would be happy about the fact instead of trying to make it about them and trying to point score. Still, looking at the intelligence level of some of the bottom feeders on here, it should be no surprise.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> You should not have entered in the first place. It was a matter of doing a coup d'etat, like you always did every where (including here in Brazil). Now since you were inside, the least you should have done was to solve the problem that you use as excuse to get in.
> (and I did not even mentioned that the Taliban is so strong thanks to USA's political games against USSR, so yeah, your mess, you should cleaned it).


I don't disagree with your first point, but the choices were to either leave or stay indefinitely. The events we're seeing demonstrate that nothing was gained for 20 years of war.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> You should not have entered in the first place. It was a matter of doing a coup d'etat, like you always did every where (including here in Brazil). Now since you were inside, the least you should have done was to solve the problem that you use as excuse to get in.
> (and I did not even mentioned that the Taliban is so strong thanks to USA's political games against USSR, so yeah, your mess, you should cleaned it).


 I covered that pages ago, actually! That being said, some problems can't be easily solved. At this point, it really could only have ended in one of two ways. The way it did, or making the region into an outright American territory and sparking an actual war. Otherwise, it would just be more of the same into perpetuity... we never should have been there, but the people never wanted to invade to begin with. Tragedy all the way around... but still started by the right decades ago


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 16, 2021)

It's no secret around here how I feel about Biden, or rather his council of elders or whoever comes up with his policies, but this Afghanistan "disaster" doesn't really seem like that big of a deal to me. It doesn't seem like the Taliban are actively hunting down Americans on the way out or anything. If anything, it will be easier for them to steamroll the rest of the place with everyone gone. It was always going to end this way, so better to just do it like a band-aid, right off! This thing has been a massive waste of blood and treasure based on a lie. They don't want us there and the only use for continuing this farce is to maintain a launchpad against Iran on behalf of Israel. Fuck em, let them deal with their own problems.


----------



## laudern (Aug 16, 2021)

The boot licking left never fail to amaze me with their mental gymnastics. I wonder how many of them have self diagnosed with PTSD. Very fragile and deluded.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Demonstrably false.



Keep talking into the echo chamber, for anyone not still firmly hypnotized by Trump then it's clearly not Joe Bidens fault.



nintendo19 said:


> You are attempting to use his words against him but are leaving out the fact that Biden could have done something, regardless of something unstoppable.



Don't you think it's fair to use Trumps words against him? Trump clearly set this up to fail.



Hanafuda said:


> How would that have helped?? Are you dense? There is no Afghanistan army anymore.



There was an Afghan army when the US left, if they had destroyed the Afghan army's weapons when they left then the Taliban would have taken over quicker. Your argument is disingenous.



DoubleDate said:


> What does genitalia have to do anything with this conversation mate, cant you just be normal and add things that are important than just looking for ways on how to insult? I mean, come one, that is low.



Truth hurts? Your viewpoint screams of trolling. If you want a serious debate then try not making fraudulent claims.



Hanafuda said:


> They know Trump is a person to take action (See the Soleimani story)



What action do you imagine that Trump would take? On the basis he says he is against any action. You are in denial. His magical thinking that the withdrawal would have been more successful if he was president is lapped up by the deluded faithful, but there is no basis for believing that and he hasn't said how he would have done anything differently.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> Keep talking into the echo chamber, for anyone not still firmly hypnotized by Trump then it's clearly not Joe Bidens fault.



So when Joe Blinken is stating imperially "I made the decision to withdraw" is he lying or was he trying to steal credit which he was not entitled to.   He is a known plagiarist.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Biden speech today pretty much 
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/som3thingwicked/status/1427371091496943624


----------



## ZeroT21 (Aug 16, 2021)

And to think that americans recruited and trained the Taliban to fight with them during Soviet occupation , so funny


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> Now since you were inside, the least you should have done was to solve the problem that you use as excuse to get in.



Yeah, I kinda feel the same. However, I'm not sure if that problem is solvable.

The best they could have done is made the country so progressive that the people would not stand for being run by an oppressive regime. But I'm not sure that 20 years is long enough to change the attitudes of so many people.

I feel sorry for the people who have just had their future stolen from them by a bunch of men with guns.

If the majority had voted for the Taliban to take control then at least it would have been democratic. Financial sanctions against them is our only real recourse, maybe legalizing drugs would help screw their economy. We need to find some eco use for opium.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> Keep talking into the echo chamber, for anyone not still firmly hypnotized by Trump then it's clearly not Joe Bidens fault.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Truth hurts? Mate, are you alway like that? Putting words on someone else? Because im very certain i never mentioned anything about genitalia. Im just wondering if some people here are compasionate to be kind to his fellow human being. 

Pentagon, Kamala Harris all have said that what happened is a whole cluster big failure, yet you guys know better than the ones who even were there? All i hear is Trump bashing, but no actual responsibilities to own the moment of the failure. Biden botched it, now he is blaming everyone else except him who made the decision, so again who are we kidding?

Mate, for the second time in a kind and respectful way to you without any insult, i never said anything about Trumps genitalia. If i said something about Kamala Harris, she is a woman who want to lead for example, did i say anything about her vagina? No i didn't.

No need to be rude.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



smf said:


> Yeah, I kinda feel the same. However, I'm not sure if that problem is solvable.
> 
> The best they could have done is made the country so progressive that the people would not stand for being run by an oppressive regime. But I'm not sure that 20 years is long enough to change the attitudes of so many people.
> 
> ...



I agree with that one.


----------



## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Truth hurts? Mate, are you alway like that? Putting words on someone else? Because im very certain i never mentioned anything about genitalia. Im just wondering if some people here are compasionate to be kind to his fellow human being.



You clearly aren't compassionate and kind to fellow human beings & neither is Trump. I will be kind and compassionate to you when you are kind and compassionate to Joe Biden.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/trump-afghanistan-withdrawal-claim-biden-v91ad2982

"a government that wouldn't last, the only way they will last is if we're there".

"so we're bringing out troops back from iraq, we're bringing our troops back from afghanistan".

Trump thought the government would fall when he set the timescale for brining the troops back, he knew it would happen when Joe Biden was president. He could have done it earlier in his term so that he saw it through, he chose not to do that.

So don't talk about kind and compassionate to Trump, he is a piece of shit. Even republicans should see that.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/08/afghanistan-withdrawal-trump-biden.html

_First, the “peace accord” that Trump’s emissaries signed with the Taliban in February 2020, in Doha, imposed only a few conditions—and the Taliban are violating none of them at the moment. The Taliban merely agreed not to allow any “individuals or groups, including al-Qaida, to use the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies.” The accord did not bar the Taliban from fighting Afghan government troops or from capturing Afghan provinces on its own._


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 16, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> I covered that pages ago, actually! That being said, some problems can't be easily solved. At this point, it really could only have ended in one of two ways. The way it did, or making the region into an outright American territory and sparking an actual war. Otherwise, it would just be more of the same into perpetuity... we never should have been there, but the people never wanted to invade to begin with. Tragedy all the way around... but still started by the right decades ago


so you agree with USA doing nothing to easy the pain that it is directly responsible for is a right move? Come on!
If USA dig itself in a perpetual problem, it should be solely an USA problem, not an Afghanistan's people problem.

But USA don't care, I know, it is their "America first" stuff, just with blue tie instead of the red one.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 16, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> What a joke, it took him 3 days to prepare for that statement?



Rumors are floating around they tried to get Kamala to do it which she replied "Your not pinning this shit on me", guess he didn't want to leave vacation.


----------



## izy (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> What did Biden say that was untrue? Please be specific.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


honestly ignore valwinz
all he seems to do is ignore everyones valid opinions with no counter arguments at all and just donowall you an post twitter posts on cooldown


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> You clearly aren't compassionate and kind to fellow human beings & neither is Trump. I will be kind and compassionate to you when you are kind and compassionate to Joe Biden.



Sure, now i must be cheering and jumping of happines and say welldone Biden, you did great sir. How can someone be happy when he gave the order to abandon the Aghan people? He left them to their mercy. He didn't even anounce it, he just left quietly.

He could've solved this in a more better way. So was he compassionate to all the people he left to be murdered? All the young girls that are at the mercy of luck? Even when his advisors told him not do keep going with the way he did? At least he should've planned it strategic, so that people would have enough time to leave. If you dont see the problem, then grab a flight to Kabul and see how "compassionate" Biden was to the poor Afghan people.

But i guess you are a hardcore Biden fan. This alone would've cost Trump his presidency, would things turned like what happened now. But yeah, sure Biden gets free pass.

The point is due to Biden failure lots of people will now be murderded, used as slaves and young girls married against their will, so does that calls compassionate in your book?

Again, this could been done differently.


----------



## Viri (Aug 16, 2021)

Spoiler











Shut up bigots, respect their culture!


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## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

Imagine you’re a young girl in Afghanistan. The US tells you you can go to school, have dreams, go to college, pick a husband. You study and work for 20 years and then BAM…Orange Man Bad and you’re a government assigned concubine.


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## djpannda (Aug 16, 2021)

The mods should really step in before this becomes “GBA-Chan” and “TheGBA.win”


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## smf (Aug 16, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Sure, now i must be cheering and jumping of happines and say welldone Biden, you did great sir.



There is a difference between "making sure the correct person is blamed" and "congratulating someone for the outcome".

Do you not see that?

If two cars collide the person who's fault it is gets penalized, it's not valid for them to say "this isn't fair, you're congratulating them for having an accident."

If Trump came out and said that it was inevitable but US troops had to come home and he personally accepted the outcome, then I'd think he had some kind of humanity. But it's clear that he used Afghanistan as a pawn in his game to get back into the white house.



DoubleDate said:


> But i guess you are a hardcore Biden fan.



No I'm a hardcore fan of the truth and logical argument. Trump is not a fan of either. It is clear you are not either.



DoubleDate said:


> This alone would've cost Trump his presidency, would things turned like what happened now.



If all the illegal stuff Trump has done did not cost him the presidency, then what makes you think this would?

Trump obviously didn't think it a good idea to actually implement this during his presidency though.



DoubleDate said:


> The point is due to Biden failure lots of people will now be murderded, used as slaves and young girls married against their will, so does that calls compassionate in your book?



No, that is not ok in my book. But Trump set the wheels in motion for that to happen, his plan was always that the Taliban would win and young girls married against their will & he will use them to his advantage.

I don't see that Joe Biden could do anything to stop that.

As president of the USA, I'm not sure if it's even his right to stop that by invading the country.
If the Taliban invaded the USA because of violations of their laws, then you'd be upset.

Most western countries want the USA to end the death penalty, should we invade the USA?



DoubleDate said:


> Again, this could been done differently.



Like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, the outcome would be the same.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 16, 2021)

smf said:


> There is a difference between "making sure the correct person is blamed" and "congratulating someone for the outcome".
> 
> Do you not see that?
> 
> ...



Mate how can you with a serious face say that he isnt responsible for the actions of what happened?
Look here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9899117/Biden-DEFENDS-leaving-Afghanistan.html

He blames everyone except his failure of poor strategic withdrawal and the killing of innocent people.

Illegal stuff? Like making a phone call, taxes? Are you seriously comparing minor things like that to the murder of innocent people? Im now lost at words, wow.

The example of two cars makes not sense at all, first because BIDEN rejected everything that Trump has done and this one he could easily reject it too but he didnt! His plan backfired and now he is putting all the blame on others. Its so bad that Kamala Harris is distancing herself from this, where is she? Oh nowhere to be seen. And Joe is back to his "vacation" So much compassion for the Afghan people.

No, Trumps plan was a strategic withdrawal, a backup plan, he would leave power to the Aghan forces not the extremist, that was part of the deal too. The extremist would not have been in power if Joe didn't botch and abandon the Aghan people.

No it wouldn't be the same. If there was someone who stopped one of the 911 Hijackers, would the the planes struck the WTC? No, the outcome would have been different because one of the wheel in motion to carry a barbaric act is stopped meaning the wheel wouldve stopped and not going further.

Blaming Trump gains nothing. The thing is that not a single extremist tried anything during his presidency. He was there for 4 years! They knew not to mess with him.

Dont expect this to be Biden only mistake, there are 3 more years to go, God save us if something bad happens. Im really tired of all the war and pain in this world.

But yeah, still no answer as to why Biden ignored the advice the Pentagon gave him.

Its a sad time and i really do feel bad for the poor Afghan people who dont deserve this kind of betrayal. Biden should've done this more carefully.


----------



## Viri (Aug 16, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Imagine you’re a young girl in Afghanistan. The US tells you you can go to school, have dreams, go to college, pick a husband. You study and work for 20 years and then BAM…Orange Man Bad and you’re a government assigned concubine.


Respect their culture, you bigot!


----------



## CMDreamer (Aug 16, 2021)

"And he lost an entire country over the course of this week."

You can't lost something you never owned in any possible context.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 16, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> so you agree with USA doing nothing to easy the pain that it is directly responsible for is a right move? Come on!
> If USA dig itself in a perpetual problem, it should be solely an USA problem, not an Afghanistan's people problem.
> 
> But USA don't care, I know, it is their "America first" stuff, just with blue tie instead of the red one.



Put bluntly, there was no easier way to leave. Staying would only solidify the notion that the US is trying to turn the area into a puppet state or colony, which would spark even more conflict. This sort of thing is sad, but it is an issue for the larger international community.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

I'm ready for Biden to get us out of the Middle East entirely.  Who gives a fuck if warmongering neocons bitch about it the whole time.  Our presence there never did anyone any good, and it's still not doing anyone any good.  Time to turn off the money spigot for all these weapons manufacturers and private mercenary groups, so it can be better spent elsewhere.


----------



## saulopp (Aug 16, 2021)

I did not like it when they added helicopters to the GLA in the Command & Comquer - Zero Hour mod "Rise of the Reds" because I felt it was too unrealistic for this faction having an airforce.






I was wrong.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2021)

I was in favour of forces being withdrawn from the Middle East under Trump and I'm in favour of it now - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If people in the Middle East want to live under a xenophobic, racist dictatorship (not all, but most) then that is the fate they've chosen.

To paraphrase my favourite comedian, the Middle East is like a boat, and the coalition is like a guy going through mid-life crisis. Having a boat is pretty cool - you can go on a cruise any time you want, except when it needs to be serviced, which is always. You spent so much on it already, you have to fix the boat, right? The moment you buy the boat, you're faced with a lose-lose choice every season - you can sink more money into the boat or you can sink the boat. At some point you have to grow up and realise that the boat is going through your savings. You need to realise that it's time to sell the boat to another sucker - somebody else can take care of it, otherwise you'll just sink along with it. You won't recoup your cost, ever, but you can finally stop worrying about the damned boat.

The *only* thing that's mildly annoying about the situation is the fact that the entirety of the establishment, both sides of the aisle, screeched to high heaven when Trump suggested that it's time to bring all the troops home from the dustbowl, and now that Biden bungs up doing exactly that it's a "sensible decision". I was told that creating a power vacuum in the Middle East will embolden terrorists and spread chaos across the region and abroad (and it demonstrably did, as everyone could've predicted) - I guess that's not a pressing concern now that the president is someone the establishment likes. Now it's okay to not care about people in the East having the same squabbles they used to have.



Long story short, the people of Afghanistan will have freedom when they start to desire it - you can't *make them* want democracy and equality with missiles, bullets and tanks. The occupying forces were never going to establish a long-lasting, peaceful, democratic state in the area - you can't do that in Afghanistan and you can't do it in Iraq. They'll build it themselves when the time comes, until then we can just stop spending money on the damned boat and redirect those funds towards things that actually matter to the average voter - at home, not abroad.


----------



## DKB (Aug 16, 2021)

i wonder if they'll be wiped out by something


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Rumors are floating around they tried to get Kamala to do it which she replied "Your not pinning this shit on me", guess he didn't want to leave vacation.


Whoa, rumors from conservative Twitter. How convincing.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The *only* thing that's mildly annoying about the situation is the fact that the entirety of the establishment, both sides of the aisle, screeched to high heaven when Trump suggested that it's time to bring all the troops home from the dustbowl, and now that Biden bungs up doing exactly that it's a "sensible decision".


Trump's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan is one of the few during his presidency that I take no issue with.  It's _how_ he decided to go about it that was the problem, by ignoring the established Afghani government and going directly to the Taliban to negotiate with them instead.  There's no guarantee that things would've turned out any different no matter what, of course, but at the very least he should've avoided lending legitimacy to the Taliban's claim over the country.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Whoa, rumors from conservative Twitter. How convincing.


He should've said "according to an anonymous source", that was perfectly credible during the previous administration.


Xzi said:


> Trump's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan is one of the few during his presidency that I take no issue with.  It's _how_ he decided to go about it that was the problem, by ignoring the established Afghani government and going directly to the Taliban to negotiate with them instead.  There's no guarantee that things would've turned out any different no matter what, of course, but at the very least he should've avoided lending legitimacy to the Taliban's claim over the country.


Given how quickly the Taliban took over the country, his assessment of the situation was orders of magnitude more accurate than Biden's.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 16, 2021)

About Biden disgusting speach 
As a former presidential speechwriter I was shocked by the utter lack of empathy. No acknowledgement of the heart wrenching scenes we see playing out or the humanitarian catastrophe unfolding before our eyes. https://t.co/bLQgAr6D4h— Marc Thiessen 🇺🇸❤️🇺🇦 (@marcthiessen) August 16, 2021


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Given how quickly the Taliban took over the country, his assessment of the situation was orders of magnitude more accurate than Biden's.


I have a hard time believing Trump "assessed" anything, I think he simply aligned ideologically more with the Taliban than any other group in Afghanistan, so he gravitated toward them without even considering his other options.  Religious fundies of a feather flock together.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I have a hard time believing Trump "assessed" anything, I think he simply aligned ideologically more with the Taliban than any other group in Afghanistan, so he gravitated toward them without even considering his other options.  Religious fundies of a feather flock together.


Oh yeah, Trump, the paragon of religious fundamentalism. Get real. Then again, if you didn't get what the play was 4 years ago, you're not going to get it now.


----------



## seany1990 (Aug 16, 2021)

The UK's defense minister blamed the chaos in Afghanistan on former US President Donald Trump on Monday.
He told "BBC Breakfast" on Monday: "The die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump, if you want my observation."

"President Biden inherited a momentum, a momentum that had been given to the Taliban because they felt they had now won. He'd also inherited a momentum of troop withdrawal from the international community, the US."


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> He should've said "according to an anonymous source", that was perfectly credible during the previous administration.
> Given how quickly the Taliban took over the country, his assessment of the situation was orders of magnitude more accurate than Biden's.


Reporters cite "anonymous sources" when the reporter knows who the source is and has verified their credibility (i.e. citing "anonymous sources" from a member of a president's cabinet about something that happened amongst the cabinet members). I haven't found anything like this regarding the Harris quote. Just seemingly made-up rumors circulating conservative Twitter with no sources. So, there's a difference. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 16, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Put bluntly, there was no easier way to leave. Staying would only solidify the notion that the US is trying to turn the area into a puppet state or colony, which would spark even more conflict. This sort of thing is sad, but it is an issue for the larger international community.


I don't buy this one, sorry.

and look at this:

“We gave them every chance to determine their own future. We could not provide them with the will to fight for that future”

this was a disgusting lie, and you know this.

Biden did messed up, and the Americans either are happy (the red ones) or are trying to explaining the unexplainable (the blue ones), and they are doing this to the point that they are blaming the Afghanistan people for not fighting men armed with rifles that just the devil knows how ended up there (but we know where were made).

Absurd decisions can't be painted as unavoidable decisions just for the sake of defeating Trump in a election that is years away. You are being just like Trump people doing that way. I beg you, please reflect. People is suffering right now, they are not Americans, but I ensure you that they bleed and they feel pain.

And lastly. You said that it "is an issue for the larger international community". No it is not.

Anyway, now it is too late, I just desire the best of luck to those who stayed there (specially the girls), and for those who will flee and fight for being accepted somewhere else.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 16, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Reporters cite "anonymous sources" when the reporter knows who the source is and has verified their credibility (i.e. citing "anonymous sources" from a member of a president's cabinet about something that happened amongst the cabinet members). I haven't found anything like this regarding the Harris quote. Just seemingly made-up rumors circulating conservative Twitter with no sources. So, there's a difference. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.


I know what an anonymous source is. You have a sense of humour, you don't have to pretend to be stiff 24/7.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 16, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh yeah, Trump, the paragon of religious fundamentalism.


There are unfortunately more similarities between the modern Republican platform and the Taliban's policy stances than there are differences.  Ban on abortion?  Check.  Desire to have homosexuality punishable by law?  Check.  Desire to ban vaccines?  Check.  Desire to have religion taught in schools and separation of church/state nullified?  Check.  Desire to "keep women in their place?"  Check.  The list goes on.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 16, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> I know what an anonymous source is. You have a sense of humour, you don't have to pretend to be stiff 24/7.


You seemed to be painting a false equivalence between the various "anonymous sources" during the Trump presidency and the supposed Harris quote.


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You seemed to be painting a false equivalence between the various "anonymous sources" during the Trump presidency and the supposed Harris quote.


Oh, I'm 100% certain that 9 out of 10 of those "anonymous sources" were either talking out of their ass or they heard a snippet of a conversation and misconstrued it, so they built up the rest of the narrative in their imagination. That's always the case, it's a game of Chinese telephone. I hold both to the same standard - the standard is "this is not evidence unless you can unequivocally prove that this statement was actually uttered". There's a reason why third-party accounts of overheard conversations are (usually) not admissible evidence in court - it's hearsay. Eavesdropping is inadmissible, and in certain scenarios a crime in and out of itself. The only two parties that can speak about the contents of a conversation are the parties directly involved in it, unless there's a recording of said conversation. With all that being said, a joke is a joke, and it wasn't exactly concealed.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You seemed to be painting a false equivalence between the various "anonymous sources" during the Trump presidency and the supposed Harris quote.



The only false equivalency is your partisanship, rage harder that Biden is now suffering from behavior the left normalized.  I'll consider your trigger'ed level as a metric of likelyhood.

Take a nap, those mental gymnastics you been doing to absolve Biden of this cluster fuck must be exhausting.

*KAMALA GOES INTO SELF-PRESERVATION MODE: Refuses Bidens order to address nation on Afghanistan telling POTUS ‘You Will Not Pin This Sh*t on Me!’ But she was at planning table!!!*


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> *KAMALA GOES INTO SELF-PRESERVATION MODE: Refuses Bidens order to address nation on Afghanistan telling POTUS ‘You Will Not Pin This Sh*t on Me!’ But she was at planning table!!!*


Do I even have to say it?  Fake news.  No legitimate outlet titles articles this way.

Biden stands behind his decision to follow through on withdrawal, as well he should.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Do I even have to say it?  Fake news.  No legitimate outlet titles articles this way.



Sweet Heaven, no disrespect to you or anyone but seems like you and the other person are both so hard in denial about this whole situation. Those extremist could be in your backyards and still you will be posting like: No proof, never happened, where is the source?

What do you guys gain with being so denial? Kamala Harris DID distance herself from al this mess. Heck even the Pentagon said that Biden did mess up.

Eventhe case that there are people fearing for their lives Biden goes back to his vacation trip like nothing happened.

Its so oustanding to see this kind of denial and doing all the best to deflect the fact that Biden failed big time.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Do I even have to say it?  Fake news.  No legitimate outlet titles articles this way.
> 
> Biden stands behind his decision to follow through on withdrawal, as well he should.



It is not fake news, it is a very real rumor.

We have no legitimate news outlets, It's a safe bet that blogger who posted it has lost fewer lawsuits for being a liar than any news outlet you are claiming as "legitimate".


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> The only false equivalency is your partisanship, rage harder that Biden is now suffering from behavior the left normalized.  I'll consider your trigger'ed level as a metric of likelyhood.
> 
> Take a nap, those mental gymnastics you been doing to absolve Biden of this cluster fuck must be exhausting.
> 
> *KAMALA GOES INTO SELF-PRESERVATION MODE: Refuses Bidens order to address nation on Afghanistan telling POTUS ‘You Will Not Pin This Sh*t on Me!’ But she was at planning table!!!*


Unsurprisingly, this isn't a credible news report, and it's indistinguishable from something that was completely made-up.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> It is not fake news, it is a very real rumor.


If this was intended to be self-parody, well done.  If not, yikes.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Unsurprisingly, this isn't a credible news report, and it's indistinguishable from something that was completely made-up.




Didn't say it was a news report, I said it's a rumor.   Anonymous sources tell me your triggered.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Those extremist could be in your backyards and still you will be posting like: No proof, never happened, where is the source?


We already spent hours talking about this last night.  Religious extremists _are_ in the US' back yard, but they aren't Taliban.  They're Vanilla ISIS and Y'all Queda.



DoubleDate said:


> Its so oustanding to see this kind of denial and doing all the best to deflect the fact that Biden failed big time.


This is a bipartisan failure, and a failure of US military leadership.  Our pointless involvement in Afghanistan continued through four administrations, two Republican, two Democrat.  Policy based on imperialism must come to an end.  Permanently.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> We already spent hours talking about this last night.  Religious extremists _are_ in the US' back yard, but they aren't Taliban.  They're Vanilla ISIS and Y'all Queda.
> 
> 
> This is a bipartisan failure, and a failure of US military leadership.  Our pointless involvement in Afghanistan continued through four administrations, two Republican, two Democrat.  Policy based on imperialism must come to an end.  Permanently.



If you are going to make such a ridiculous equivalency do me a favor and PM the liveleak of mormons doing a beheading or a fundie stoning session.  I'll wait.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Didn't say it was a news report, I said it's a rumor.   Anonymous sources tell me your triggered.


And I'm telling you nobody should be interested in unsubstantiated claims from explicitly biased sources that can't be traced to anything other than the aforementioned biased source.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> And I'm telling you nobody should be interested in unsubstantiated claims from explicitly biased sources that can't be traced to anything other than the aforementioned biased source.



If it's not true you are going to need to demonstrate that, has Biden and Harris released a statement denying it took place?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> If it's not true you are going to need to demonstrate that, has Biden and Harris released a statement denying it took place?


Shifting of the burden of proof is a logical fallacy. We believe things when they're demonstrated. If you're going to believe claims until their disproven, and that's your criteria for belief, then you have to believe in all sorts of contradictory nonsense.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> If you are going to make such a ridiculous equivalency do me a favor and PM the liveleak of mormons doing a beheading or a fundie stoning session.  I'll wait.


Since 9/11, 73% of deadly domestic terrorist incidents have been from far-right extremist groups. Many of those include religiously motivated terrorism. Anti-abortion terrorist events are a good example.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Shifting of the burden of proof is a logical fallacy. We believe things when they're demonstrated. If you're going to believe claims until their disproven, and that's your criteria for belief, then you have to believe in all sorts of contradictory nonsense.



Answer the question, has Biden and Harris denied the validity of it?  

I never claimed to believe it, however it seems to fit nicely with itinerary of Biden running back and forth from Camp David and Kamala's absence.   Is Willy Brown in DC?  she might be "busy".


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> If you are going to make such a ridiculous equivalency do me a favor and PM the liveleak of mormons doing a beheading or a fundie stoning session.  I'll wait.


Or I could just post a video of a black church or Jewish Temple being shot up, right?  The Mormon church is essentially a pyramid scheme that uses "heaven as a service," but it's Evangelicals that really hold much more dangerous and extremist beliefs.  Life is just one big waiting room to them, and whatever they can do to bring about the "end of days" sooner can only be a good thing; even if that means murdering "others" on their way out.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Or I could just post a video of a black church or Jewish Temple being shot up, right?  The Mormon church is essentially a pyramid scheme that uses "heaven as a service," but it's Evangelicals that really hold much more dangerous and extremist beliefs.  Life is just one big waiting room to them, and whatever they can do to bring about the "end of days" sooner can only be a good thing; even if that means murdering "others" on their way out.



Isolated incidents of mentally ill individuals who most likely were on serotonin reuptake inhibitors which has been the case in nearly every spree shooting that has ever taken place is not equivalent to broad terrorist organizations.

I'll wait on that beheading video.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I didn't say there shouldn't have been any retaliation, but we should've at least retaliated against the people/countries that were _actually _involved.  Ultimately we sent in one team of Navy Seals to assassinate Bin Laden.  If we had just done that in the first place, we could've saved trillions of dollars and millions of lives.  Retaliation against Saudi Arabia was always unlikely, but it's absolutely ludicrous that the GWB administration let Saudi royals fly out of the US when all other air travel was locked down.  That should've been a huge red flag that we were being lied to about the perpetrators.
> 
> 
> As the first black president, he didn't want to rock the boat too much.  That ended up causing him to be too timid/moderate on a number of issues, and thus the reason his presidency was a pretty big disappointment to a lot of progressives.


People/countries - Afghanistan had Taliban and Al-Qaeda, who as I mentioned launched missiles in '98 at the US Embassy. The mission kept changing while over there too. Should we have left long ago? Sure, but again, look at those sad people trying to cling onto an aircraft leaving because they know what's to come without US protections. The war was necessary and there will be casualties, but people expect everyone to be completely unharmed when that's just not real life. You're trying to reduce a population of bad people who want to cause harm that are crimes against humanity. It wasn't just Osama who did bad things; it was a collective. I do believe the Saudi royals should have been in trouble was well.
The problem is the civilian sector thinks they have a need-to-know on every mission operative going on wherever cause then you get protests and the like. 
We still have troops in Germany and Japan… while they aren’t 3rd world tribal civilizations, the concept and model is the same. Regardless, we’re not at this point if we as a country had the stomach for the same warfighting that has existed for most of American history. Instead we “fight” through lawyers and global consensus while portions of the American people stupidly believe they are obligated to know every American military move before it happens. 

As the first black president lol.. He got gay marriage going; I'd say that's rocking a massive boat with how wild the south is with their disdain for anything not straight especially back in 2012-2013. Please don't say he didnt want to rock the boat. There's way more you nor I know about behind the scenes that civilians have NO CLUE about.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Americans are trap right now and Biden just left them there 
Thousands of U.S. citizens are trapped in Kabul with no ability to get to the airport. As Taliban soldiers go door to door, searching for Westerners, these U.S. citizens are now reaching out to Washington for help. https://t.co/0DfEcbrPyt— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) August 16, 2021


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I didn't say anything about bombing anyone. Don't be disingenuous. I don't remember if it was you or someone else, but I've only heard conservatives in this thread praising Trump for being willing to "bomb them to oblivion."


It was someone else, but I was also trying to be playful with you. You seem super stiff dude. Like a robot.  And you do realize even democracies bomb people, right? Your boy biden bombs people, Obama bombed people, Biden bombed people in both times in office. This whole conservative attack BS is annoying.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Answer the question, has Biden and Harris denied the validity of it?
> 
> I never claimed to believe it, however it seems to fit nicely with itinerary of Biden running back and forth from Camp David and Kamala's absence.   Is Willy Brown in DC?  she might be "busy".


Failure to dignify something with a response is not an admission that it is true. Obama went years, for example, without dignifying Trump's racist birtherism by producing his birth certificate. There's plenty of garbage posted on this site that I don't dignify with a response either.

Also, I'm unaware of anyone asking anybody about the supposed comments, let alone answering questions about it. What are you smoking that you think Biden, Harris, or someone in the administration is going to stop in the middle of this Afghanistan business, look in the camera, and say, unprompted, "I want to address these rumors of Harris saying something, even though these rumors are only circulating on conservative Twitter"?


----------



## RivenMain (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> And I'm telling you nobody should be interested in unsubstantiated claims from explicitly biased sources that can't be traced to anything other than the aforementioned biased source.



Dam dude your still arguing, you need to do something else with your life.  90% of all news is left wing. and because of it source credibility will always be scrutinized much heavier to republicans. Have you ever used a search engine to find information other than google? Because if you want biased your top page paid for google pages are genuinely the most biased.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> It was someone else, but I was also trying to be playful with you. You seem super stiff dude. Like a robot.  And you do realize even democracies bomb people, right? Your boy biden bombs people, Obama bombed people, Biden bombed people in both times in office. This whole conservative attack BS is annoying.


First, you called me a war monger who supported bombing people when I never came close to explicitly or implicitly suggesting that to be the case. Second, I never said that "democracies don't bomb people." Of course they do.

If your best response to my posts is "you're acting stuff; I was just prankin' bro," instead of anything substantive, I'll take that as a concession.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



RivenMain said:


> Dam dude your still arguing, you need to do something else with your life.  90% of all news is left wing. and because of it source credibility will always be scrutinized much heavier to republicans. Have you ever used a search engine to find information other than google? Because if you want biased your top page paid for google pages are genuinely the most biased.


If your best response to my posts is "Dude, get a life," instead of something that substantively addresses the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession.


----------



## titan_tim (Aug 17, 2021)

Here's something that made me chuckle:
https://gizmodo.com/gop-quietly-scrubs-webpage-detailing-trumps-historic-pe-1847492947

This whole debacle was not the work of one person. It was a team effort. 

- Bush Jr went in there in the first place and started bombing the shit out of them (With a majority of the US population egging him on, still seething from 9/11)
- Obama continued bombing the shit out of the country (And I believe contemplated withdrawal).
- Trump was pushing for withdrawal and attempted to negotiate with the Taliban (Knowing that a takeover was inevitable if they left)
- Biden pulled the trigger to get the heck out of there.

If the withdrawal had happened in ANY of those points, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Taliban would have come back and taken over in the same way, and the person who made the order to get out would have been blamed. If Trump pulled out, then @Lacius would have been saying it was done terribly, and @jimbo13 would have been defending him using the same points which each are using on each other right now. 

It's the slot-machine mentality. If you stay longer, you hope that it'll eventually pay off. But sometimes it's best to quit after wasting 4 trillion dollars and 20 years. Now the buzzards (Russia and China) are circling the slot-machine, hoping to cash in.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Biden stands behind his decision to follow through on withdrawal, as well he should.




Third time I've posted to say so, but this isn't even about the 'decision to follow through on withdrawal.' Withdrawing from Afghanistan, ASAP, had broad bipartisan support on Capitol Hill and with the general public. Nobody of significance is criticizing Biden for the decision to follow through. 

It's the fucking it all up, even after he extended the timeline for doing so by months, that has people upset. And it was definitely, very royally fucked up.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Failure to dignify something with a response is not an admission that it is true. Obama went years, for example, without dignifying Trump's racist birtherism by producing his birth certificate. There's plenty of garbage posted on this site that I don't dignify with a response either.



Demonstrably false, Birtherism was started by Clinton campaigners in 2008 and Obama addressed his birth certificate many times..



> The theory that Obama was born in Kenya “first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obama’s citizenship.”
> 
> The second article, which ran several days after the Politico piece, was published by the _Telegraph_, a British paper, which stated: “An anonymous email circulated by supporters of Mrs Clinton, Mr Obama’s main rival for the party’s nomination, thrust a new allegation into the national spotlight — that he had not been born in Hawaii.”






Lacius said:


> First, you called me a war monger who supported bombing people when I never came close to explicitly or implicitly suggesting that to be the case. Second, I never said that "democracies don't bomb people." Of course they do.



When you support a President and politicians who have voted in favor of every military intervention in the last 40 years that makes you a war monger.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> Here's something that made me chuckle:
> https://gizmodo.com/gop-quietly-scrubs-webpage-detailing-trumps-historic-pe-1847492947
> 
> This whole debacle was not the work of one person. It was a team effort.
> ...



I would have said Trump did it terribly because he negotiated with the Taliban and empowered them immediately before the withdrawal would have happened.
I wouldn't have criticized Trump's withdrawal from Afghanistan itself. I support withdrawal from the region, and I would have supported it under any president.
Trump never withdrew from the region, despite having four years to do so, and I'm doubtful it would have actually occurred under Trump.


----------



## RivenMain (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If your best response to my posts is "Dude, get a life," instead of something that substantively addresses the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession.


 I just got on actually, focus on the other topic if you would pls.  I'd like to hear your response.


----------



## Kunty (Aug 17, 2021)

So I got privy to some info about a year ago, UK, USA and France knew that they were losing and it was inevitable that the Taliban were going to overthrow the Afghan government. They were just trying to control the collateral and save face by trying to make an effort. In reality they knew for a long time that it was gonna go down the toilet. I don't think anyone predicted the president would run away though. In my opinion he should have gone down with the ship rather than abandoning his people. I worked with some loose lipped people, I won't say what my job was but it was one of the many branches of the UK government, not MoD. We knew about lockdowns and all that stuff like a week in advance of the general public. Biden is an idiot, as is Macron and Johnson.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> First, you called me a war monger who supported bombing people when I never came close to explicitly or implicitly suggesting that to be the case. Second, I never said that "democracies don't bomb people." Of course they do.
> 
> If your best response to my posts is "you're acting stuff; I was just prankin' bro," instead of anything substantive, I'll take that as a concession.
> 
> ...


See. You're funny and you twist things. You said the taliban's thoughts didn't matter (then what should we do about them because they will cause issues for American people--- democracies bomb?). So I said so you're saying we should just bomb them all (as a ribbing). You take this shit wayyyy too seriously for gbatemp, a gaming website, not political at all.

I didn't say bro, so don't make me sound like some young punk trying to be impressionable. I'm sorry you lack humor and act uptight. And I did give my reasoning, you're delusional and only want to think what you think instead of what someone writes. It's why this thread has been going on for several pages.
God bless.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Demonstrably false, Birtherism was started by Clinton campaigners in 2008 and Obama addressed his birth certificate many times..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love when you try to use the term "demonstrably false" while saying something demonstrably false. Birtherism started during Obama's 2004 Senate campaign, with conservative origins, but didn't get a lot of national attention. Some Clinton supporters sent some emails about it that originated from the aforementioned 2004 bullshit, but it didn't get a lot of national attention either. After he was elected president, birtherism among conservatives soared similar to Q anon conspiracy theories today (lots of the same people, I imagine), and it was championed by Donald Trump, and he used it to put the national spotlight on himself. He willfully became the face of birtherism. It's what got him into the political arena.

Regardless of how it started, it was racist conspiracy theory nonsense, and Trump was gleefully the poster child for it. Obama didn't dignify it with the birth certificate they were demanding for years.


----------



## titan_tim (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I would have said Trump did it terribly because he negotiated with the Taliban and empowered them immediately before the withdrawal would have happened.


As we've seen today, it would have happened regardless. He also lowered the troop count to 2,500 after the election, which made it easier for them to take over today. But at the same time, having less troops in preparation to withdraw made it hopefully slightly easier to get out today.



Lacius said:


> Trump never withdrew from the region, despite having four years to do so, and I'm doubtful it would have actually occurred under Trump.


Nobody really wanted to pull the trigger on that one. It would have looked bad for anyone. If Trump was re-elected, I would expect that this would be happening today (Or earlier based on the original negotiation). Unfortunately that honor has fallen on Biden, since it was basically already set. 

“there is no gracious way to lose a war”


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

I forgot bout this 
2018 - Abdul Ghani Baradar was freed from prison at the request of the Trump administration

2020 - Abdul Ghani Baradar met with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

2021 - Abdul Ghani Baradar is set to become the next President of Afghanistan
…. Yea Trump had nothing to do with the Taliban rise to power


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> See. You're funny and you twist things. You said the taliban's thoughts didn't matter (then what should we do about them because they will cause issues for American people--- democracies bomb?). So I said so you're saying we should just bomb them all (as a ribbing). You take this shit wayyyy too seriously for gbatemp, a gaming website, not political at all.
> 
> I didn't say bro, so don't make me sound like some young punk trying to be impressionable. I'm sorry you lack humor and act uptight. And I did give my reasoning, you're delusional and only want to think what you think instead of what someone writes. It's why this thread has been going on for several pages.
> God bless.


If your only responses are personal attacks about how serious and uptight you think I am, instead of responding to the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession and an end to our conversation.

Last I checked, it was a serious topic with serious posts I was responding to. Oof.

If you want to call me delusional, please point to the delusion and demonstrate it is one. Thank you.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I love when you try to use the term "demonstrably false" while saying something demonstrably false. Birtherism started during Obama's 2004 Senate campaign, with conservative origins, but didn't get a lot of national attention. Some Clinton supporters sent some emails about it that originated from the aforementioned 2004 bullshit, but it didn't get a lot of national attention either. After he was elected president, birtherism among conservatives soared similar to Q anon conspiracy theories today (lots of the same people, I imagine), and it was championed by Donald Trump, and he used it to put the national spotlight on himself. He willfully became the face of birtherism. It's what got him into the political arena.
> 
> Regardless of how it started, it was racist conspiracy theory nonsense, and Trump was gleefully the poster child for it. Obama didn't dignify it with the birth certificate they were demanding for years.




Demonstrably false.   Obama in response to the birtherism claims addressed the issue April 27, 2011 at 8:57 AM with a statement including the publishing of his long form Birth Certificate.  Years before Trump was a candidate.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> If your only responses are personal attacks about how serious and uptight you think I am, instead of responding to the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession and an end to our conversation.
> 
> Last I checked, it was a serious topic with serious posts I was responding to. Oof.
> 
> If you want to call me delusional, please point to the delusion and demonstrate it is one. Thank you.



You are uptight and delusional, also a Warmonger as evident by your continued support of a warmonger like Biden who has never voted against or opposed a war in his life.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

titan_tim said:


> As we've seen today, it would have happened regardless. He also lowered the troop count to 2,500 after the election, which made it easier for them to take over today. But at the same time, having less troops in preparation to withdraw made it hopefully slightly easier to get out today.
> 
> 
> Nobody really wanted to pull the trigger on that one. It would have looked bad for anyone. If Trump was re-elected, I would expect that this would be happening today (Or earlier based on the original negotiation). Unfortunately that honor has fallen on Biden, since it was basically already set.
> ...


It's possible Trump would have withdrawn, but I have my doubts. He was escalating military conflicts in the middle east, and he had four years to officially withdraw without doing so. Biden was apparently the only one with the guts to actually do it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> Demonstrably false.   Obama in response to the birtherism claims addressed the issue April 27, 2011 at 8:57 AM with a statement including the publishing of his long form Birth Certificate.  Years before Trump was a candidate.
> 
> https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate
> 
> ...


I'm a little less surprised you're a Trump supporter now. You apparently skipped everything before 2015.

His time in the national political spotlight preceded his run for the presidency by years, marred with racist and vitriolic birtherism. Obama largely ignored the birtherism for years, not wanting to dignify it with a response, until he finally released his birth certificate around 2011 and then humiliated Trump at the White House Correspondent's dinner with him in attendance.

Getting back to my original point, those years Obama ignored the racist birtherism without releasing his birth certificate wasn't evidence that it was real.

Edit: In response to the latter part of your post, which I missed, people on the right side of an argument don't normally need to resort to personal attacks.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If your only responses are personal attacks about how serious and uptight you think I am, instead of responding to the content of my posts, I'll take that as a concession and an end to our conversation.
> 
> Last I checked, it was a serious topic with serious posts I was responding to. Oof.
> 
> If you want to call me delusional, please point to the delusion and demonstrate it is one. Thank you.


I have responded to your posts until you continued to deflect or ask a question rather than respond. It was becoming kind of moot. You twist things. I honestly still believe you troll people in what you say is a very serious topic with serious posts when you're continually just spouting or saying things in the same manner.
You do come across as crass and I hope you're able to see the light some day of both sides of republican and democrat rather than just super hard left delusional. I've come to realize as people have stated before that it's pointless to respond to you with facts or actuals because you twist them in your own commentary like you've done and shown with my previous posts.
Good day.

Oh, and this isn't an omission of defeat by you, since I know you get off to shit like that and fap about it cause you're weird, it's simply I'm not trying to explain things to someone who's delusional.


----------



## titan_tim (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It's possible Trump would have withdrawn, but I have my doubts. He was escalating military conflicts in the middle east, and he had four years to officially withdraw without doing so. Biden was apparently the only one with the guts to actually do it.



Yep, it definitely takes guts to know that this was going to be a shitshow, and you know you still need to get it over with. 

I wouldn't write off Trump as someone who didn't have guts though. I also thought it took guts to talk to Kim Jung Un (Not the falling in love part though, that was just....weird). He was more of a gutsy type which acted first and thought of the consequences later. Biden is more the type to think of the consequences first, and then acts.

But luckily/unfortunately we don't have the ability to go on what if situations.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If a person supports a politician who is demonstrably anti-LGBT (see my post above for how), then support for that politician is anti-LGBT. Sometimes, it's just that simple.





Lacius said:


> Edit: In response to the latter part of your post, which I missed, people on the right side of an argument don't normally need to resort to personal attacks.



If by the latter part of my post meaning when I called you a warmonger,

If a person supports a Warmonger like Biden who has voted for or supported every war that has been before him that is being a Warmonger, Sometimes, it's just that simple.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> I have responded to your posts until you continued to deflect or ask a question rather than respond. It was becoming kind of moot. You twist things. I honestly still believe you troll people in what you say is a very serious topic with serious posts when you're continually just spouting or saying things in the same manner.
> You do come across as crass and I hope you're able to see the light some day of both sides of republican and democrat rather than just super hard left delusional. I've come to realize as people have stated before that it's pointless to respond to you with facts or actuals because you twist them in your own commentary like you've done and shown with my previous posts.
> Good day.


Your post consists of little more than personal attacks and what appears to be an argument to moderation fallacy, so I would agree our conversation is rather pointless.

If there's something you said that you don't feel like I adequately addresses, and you'd like to have a good-faith conversation about it, please repeat it and tag me in the post. While I sometimes miss things, I believe I responded appropriately to each of your points.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



jimbo13 said:


> If by the latter part of my post meaning when I called you a warmonger,
> 
> If a person supports a Warmonger like Biden who has voted or supported every war that has been before him that is being a Warmonger, Sometimes, it's just that simple.



I openly disagree with some of Biden's foreign policy votes (e.g. the Iraq War vote). I wouldn't call everyone who voted for that war a warmonger, however. Many were tricked by the Bush administration.
Biden was part of the administration that ended that war, however, and I agreed with it. The Republican alternatives apparently wanted to stay in the region indefinitely, so I don't regret my vote.
In case you have not noticed, Biden is ending our presence in Afghanistan, which I support.
Edit: The Democratic side is generally the less warmongering side, FYI.


----------



## Haloman800 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> [snip]



When I saw a thread on this, I knew you'd be in here shilling for Dementia Joe and you didn't disappoint :^)


----------



## Kunty (Aug 17, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> When I saw a thread on this, I knew you'd be in here shilling for Dementia Joe and you didn't disappoint :^)


It's a bit unnecessary to take the piss out of him for something he can't control. It was quite transparent as to why Biden was even put forward by the Democratic party anyway. As a centrist he can appeal to both left and right people and then someone like Kamala would be able to slide in. There's been far too much conservatism in the world so it's about time for some more left.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

Haloman800 said:


> When I saw a thread on this, I knew you'd be in here shilling for Dementia Joe and you didn't disappoint :^)


I don't think anybody's surprised that you added nothing it substance to the conversation. Make sure you tag me if/when that changes.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Kunty said:


> It's a bit unnecessary to take the piss out of him for something he can't control. It was quite transparent as to why Biden was even put forward by the Democratic party anyway. As a centrist he can appeal to both left and right people and then someone like Kamala would be able to slide in. There's been far too much conservatism in the world so it's about time for some more left.



No it's very necessary, he slings all kinds of shit for politicians other people support.  He supported Biden knowing full well of what his war record was and he has never given anyone else a pass when they denounced individual policies.

Suddenly virtue warrior wants to claim nuance, were all enjoying it.


----------



## Kunty (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> No it's very necessary, he slings all kinds of shit for politicians other people support.  He supported Biden knowing full well of what his war record was and he has never given anyone else a pass when they denounced individual policies.
> 
> Suddenly virtue warrior wants to claim nuance, were all enjoying it.


Thing is Biden was the lesser of 2 evils. I don't think Biden is any good, but Trump was completely vile. I think in general it's important to hold the person you voted for accountable. But taking the piss out of a mental health issue that Biden may or may not have isn't the one.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Isolated incidents of mentally ill individuals who most likely were on serotonin reuptake inhibitors which has been the case in nearly every spree shooting that has ever taken place is not equivalent to broad terrorist organizations.


You could make the exact same excuse for every Muslim who carried out a terrorist act as an individual.  The bottom line is that these ideologies are radicalizing people, and while we shouldn't generalize Abrahamic religions as extremist, specific denominations within them are undeniably problematic.  Westboro Bapist Church is an obvious example of this.



Hanafuda said:


> It's the fucking it all up, even after he extended the timeline for doing so by months, that has people upset. And it was definitely, very royally fucked up.


In what way could Biden have possibly changed the outcome?  Under the Trump administration's agreement, the country was promised to the Taliban in exchange for safe withdrawal of US personnel.  There have been no reported casualties of US personnel.  The only way Afghani personnel could've been better protected during withdrawal is if the Afghani government/military had stood up for itself.  And if they weren't willing to do that after twenty years of US support and training, they were never going to do it.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Kunty said:


> Thing is Biden was the lesser of 2 evils. I don't think Biden is any good, but Trump was completely vile. I think in general it's important to hold the person you voted for accountable. But taking the piss out of a mental health issue that Biden may or may not have isn't the one.



Trumps never engaged us in a new war, he's been on the record since 2004 opposing the entire middle east adventurism.  At worst he expressed mild support on 9/11/2002 but his "Yeah I guess so when asked on howard stern" was hardly a rousing endorsement.

Biden has voted for every war put in front of him.

Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and  track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Trumps never engaged us in a new war, he's been on the record since 2004 opposing the entire middle east adventurism.  At worst he expressed mild support on 9/11/2002 but his "Yeah I guess so when asked on howard stern" was hardly a rousing endorsement.
> 
> Biden has voted for every war put in front of him.
> 
> Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and  track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.


I've posted numerous times about how Trump escalated preexisting wars, increased drone strikes, increased civilian deaths, and tried to hide civilian death numbers. I have also posted about Trump's dumbass deals with the Taliban that contributed greatly to the current situation in Afghanistan.

If your position depends on you ignoring these facts, it probably isn't a position worth holding onto.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.


You can call him a warmonger until your face turns blue, it doesn't change the fact that his actions as president so far don't reflect that.  He's pulled us out of one conflict and hasn't started any new ones, which is something you praised Trump for just a few sentences earlier.  I shouldn't have to point out the hypocrisy there.

Additionally, Trump only flip-flopped on support of the wars after mainstream support for them began to fade.  He's a star-fucker and an opportunist, which is why he even called himself a Democrat back then.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I've posted numerous times about how Trump escalated preexisting wars, increased drone strikes, increased civilian deaths, and tried to hide civilian death numbers. I have also posted about Trump's dumbass deals with the Taliban that contributed greatly to the current situation in Afghanistan.
> 
> If your position depends on you ignoring these facts, it probably isn't a position worth holding onto.



Those aren't facts, those are your subjective partisan opinions.

Votes and signatures are facts, Biden has never expressed opposition to any military conflict.


----------



## Kunty (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Trumps never engaged us in a new war, he's been on the record since 2004 opposing the entire middle east adventurism.  At worst he expressed mild support on 9/11/2002 but his "Yeah I guess so when asked on howard stern" was hardly a rousing endorsement.
> 
> Biden has voted for every war put in front of him.
> 
> Lacius's floundering and trying to blame conservatives for Bidens failures, and  track record of being a inept warmongering POS is disgusting.


Yeah brill Trump didn't support wars and Biden did. Trump did however rape plenty of women, supported illegal measures against his own people to control the BLM movement, had 4 years to withdraw US troops but elected not to in favour of making deals with the Taliban and embarrassed himself when he lost the election. He may not have supported the wars but he sure as hell would have benefited off of them just like any politician. As I said Biden was the lesser of 2 evils, that doesn't excuse his incompetence however.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Those aren't facts, those are your subjective partisan opinions.


No, they're facts.



jimbo13 said:


> Votes and signatures are facts, Biden has never expressed opposition to any military conflict.


He's literally withdrawing from Afghanistan as we speak, lol.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> No, they're facts.
> 
> 
> He's literally withdrawing from Afghanistan as we speak, lol.




Well get back to me when he decides if it was his decision to do so or he was locked in to Trumps withdrawal. That's probably going to be dependent on how much carnage his incompetence caused.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> If by the latter part of my post meaning when I called you a warmonger,
> 
> If a person supports a Warmonger like Biden who has voted for or supported every war that has been before him that is being a Warmonger, Sometimes, it's just that simple.



And if a person supports a racist like Trump who voted for or supported every racist- based law, injunction, bill, what have you, that has been before him that is being a racist. Sometimes, it's just that simple. 

And now, let the obligatory personal attacks and/or subsequent rants about ignoring me because it's harder to prove Trump isn't at least a closet racist than a paragon for the American people. At least Trump backed his sentiment toward the minority groups by running Republican this latest time.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Well get back to me when he decides if it was his decision to do so or he was locked in to Trumps withdrawal. That's probably going to be dependent on how much carnage his incompetence caused.


It was Biden's decision to withdraw, and it was the right one.


----------



## KingVamp (Aug 17, 2021)

Sorry, I missed the perfect solution and outcome that Trump was supposedly going to do. Something about bombing?


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Your post consists of little more than personal attacks and what appears to be an argument to moderation fallacy, so I would agree our conversation is rather pointless.
> 
> If there's something you said that you don't feel like I adequately addresses, and you'd like to have a good-faith conversation about it, please repeat it and tag me in the post. While I sometimes miss things, I believe I responded appropriately to each of your points.
> 
> ...


I'll gladly just watch Jimbo run circles around you in conversations cause you seem to copy paste your responses to people. My time will be  better spent doing other things in life than responding to the likes of you. You missed a lot of what I said and like I said before, you pick and choose what you read and just respond or just deflect. You can't reason with someone like that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



SyphenFreht said:


> And if a person supports a racist like Trump who voted for or supported every racist- based law, injunction, bill, what have you, that has been before him that is being a racist. Sometimes, it's just that simple.
> 
> And now, let the obligatory personal attacks and/or subsequent rants about ignoring me because it's harder to prove Trump isn't at least a closet racist than a paragon for the American people. At least Trump backed his sentiment toward the minority groups by running Republican this latest time.


Pretty sure Trump did a lot for the African American / blacks crowd. He even talked to Kanye West which people love.
People need to face it.. Trump won office, did his time and now he's out and people are still trying to bring him up as a talking subject when Biden, a democrat is in office and not doing anything about the current situation.... By the way, who gave you free stimulus moneys and who also said no more?
Trump gave you the stimulus moneys (he set them all up to take place) and Trump pushed for the vaccine. Biden took credit for the last Stimulus and also having put out the vaccine. And Biden said no more stimulus money even though our economy is still shit.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> I'll gladly just watch Jimbo run circles around you in conversations cause you seem to copy paste your responses to people. My time will be  better spent doing other things in life than responding to the likes of you. You missed a lot of what I said and like I said before, you pick and choose what you read and just respond or just deflect. You can't reason with someone like that.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


The stimulus checks under Trump were bipartisan. The stimulus checks under Biden were passed with virtually no Republican support and had to use budget reconciliation to bypass Republican obstruction in the Senate.

The Trump administration had virtually no vaccine distribution plan, and his administration did nothing substantive to promote it. Hell, Trump himself got the vaccine in secret, and we didn't find out he had even gotten it until after he left office.

I'm heartened that you acknowledge Trump is out of office. A significant number of conservatives mistakenly think the election was stolen, and a lot of them even think he's still the secret president.

Whew, I sure am tired from having people run circles around me.


----------



## KingVamp (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The Trump administration had virtually no vaccine distribution plan, and his administration did nothing substantive to promote it. Hell, Trump himself got the vaccine in secret, and we didn't find out he had even gotten it until after he left office.


That reminds me of how the pandemic response team was apparently (partially?) disbanded.


----------



## ChronoTrig (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The stimulus checks under Trump were bipartisan. The stimulus checks under Biden were passed with virtually no Republican support and had to use budget reconciliation to bypass Republican obstruction in the Senate.
> 
> The Trump administration had virtually no vaccine distribution plan, and his administration did nothing substantive to promote it. Hell, Trump himself got the vaccine in secret, and we didn't find out he had even gotten it until after he left office.
> 
> ...


Trump signed for the checks and said yes and pumped them out; they were already in place with a schedule they had set. Biden can't take credit when they were already in place. Biden said no, no more to new stimulus checks (under his presidency). Get to the point without all the extra filler.
Trump pushed for the vaccines. Biden took credit for it being distributed because Trump wasn't in office when the vaccines weren't fully released. The public acts as if Trump had no part in trying to push for it / get it out there.

And like I said before, I understand you're far left and delusional, but as I said you should try to see both sides; I see both sides, not this sons of liberty nonsense.

If you want to see an insurrection that everyone claims the Jan 6 capitol riots were(which they weren't), then go look at Afghanistan now with what just happened. That's an insurrection.


Oh.. and Jimbo at least gets laughter and his point across instead of you as the super serious guy.


----------



## anhminh (Aug 17, 2021)

50 years from now: "Technically, US didn't lose the Afghanistan war..."


----------



## asddf (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> It really hurts lacius that he cant spin this since Biden took full credit for this mess
> 
> Lacius: Trump is responsible for “x”
> Me: Hey lacius here is Joe Biden taking responsibility “x”
> Lacius: Trump waa Trump



que chistoso que tu eres de puerto rico y defiende a trump pero cuando paso maria el ni si quiera llevanto un dedo para ayudar


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

anhminh said:


> 50 years from now: "Technically, US didn't lose the Afghanistan war..."


20ish years ago: "if Bush invades Afghanistan/Iraq, they will end up being the new generation's Vietnam."

It's always so depressing when the common man can predict negative outcomes ahead of time, but capitalists insist on proceeding anyway because there's short-term profit to be had.  Really doesn't give much hope for dealing with climate change quickly enough.


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 17, 2021)

So, is there anything worth reading in the last 10 pages since I was here or is it still just the blame game?

I bet not one of you is even trying to discuss the actual tragedy and what should be done going forward.


----------



## linuxares (Aug 17, 2021)

anhminh said:


> 50 years from now: "Technically, US didn't lose the Afghanistan war..."


No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> So, is there anything worth reading in the last 10 pages since I was here or is it still just the blame game?
> 
> I bet not one of you is even trying to discuss the actual tragedy and what should be done going forward.


The reasonable take is that the GWB administration is chiefly to blame here since we never should've been in Afghanistan to begin with.  Not getting out sooner was a bipartisan failure, and the inability to stand up to the Taliban was an Afghani government/military failure.

I'm not sure what good ruminating on the tragedy will do at this point.  American forces control the Kabul airport and we're rapidly evacuating as many of our Afghani allies as possible.  The lessons going forward are obvious: imperialism doesn't work, long-term occupation of a foreign country doesn't work.  We need to get out of all current conflicts ASAP, and not insert ourselves into any new ones.  The US military's role in other countries should be strictly humanitarian, in missions that have a clearly defined timetable, and their budget should be cut significantly.


----------



## zxr750j (Aug 17, 2021)

I feel really sad for the woman and girls not having the chance to be who they want to be under the Taliban rules. But this also extends to other thinking people: non believers, gay people etc... I feel sad for the people but I do think this is a domestic affair: this is not the responsibility of the USA or something the states can "fix" with soldiers or dimplomacy. More moderate religious countries have the same ridiculous laws against women and minorities. This is not only a problem in Afghanistan. Again: I do feel sad for a part of the Afghan people...


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 17, 2021)

Jesus theres some outright gimps on this thing. Any mods that are reading this, why the fuck would you let a forum dedicated to gaming be overrun by the threads and posts of a few demented Trump fucks?? Over the past few years theres always been one or two on every forum everywhere pouring their poison and ruining the experience for everyone else. On this one its the same few trolls under different guises. They might not have anything better to live for then talking the most deluded wannabee crap ever hoping to turn a few more of the weakwilled and vulnerable to their cause but the rest of us want them to piss off back to having sex with their farmyard animals as a substitute for their relatives. Do what any professional forum would do and kick them off.


----------



## Kaz050 (Aug 17, 2021)

@ChronoTrig you ok buddy? Trump did say alot of stupid things, Trump pushed for Vaccines but yet has not come out to his base to taken them i wonder why? Dont compare Jan 6 to Afghanistan that is stupid, USA should never be put in to a place where we have to hold hands of a country if they dont want to fight sure let them take it thats not our problem and should never be. you need to lay off the Fox News oan and other right wing crap, all the idiots who stormed the capitol should be locked up for no less then 20 years and that works the same on the left if you want to rob and burn 20 years, and any idiot who undermines democracy should be locked up nothing was stolen no fake votes no dead people nothing but yet trump is still going on about it, he loves taking people money because why not say it was stolen when you already lost 60 court cases and not one of the court cases brought up fraud not 1 but you can go on fox oan and all of them and say other wise. the same reason why trump wont help rudy with his legal bills. as you stated you see both sides as so do i  but i look very hard on both sides aswell and do my homework they both suck they both lie and they are not there to help the people who sent them there.


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> The reasonable take is that the GWB administration is chiefly to blame here since we never should've been in Afghanistan to begin with.  Not getting out sooner was a bipartisan failure, and the inability to stand up to the Taliban was an Afghani government/military failure.
> 
> I'm not sure what good ruminating on the tragedy will do at this point.  American forces control the Kabul airport and we're rapidly evacuating as many of our Afghani allies as possible.  The lessons going forward are obvious: imperialism doesn't work, long-term occupation of a foreign country doesn't work.  We need to get out of all current conflicts ASAP, and not insert ourselves into any new ones.  The US military's role in other countries should be strictly humanitarian, in missions that have a clearly defined timetable, and their budget should be cut significantly.


I'm glad you said the last part as I totally agree that humanitarian aid needs to continue to be the focus. I'm doubtful how anyone is going to stop the military industrial complex at this point though.


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 17, 2021)

linuxares said:


> No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.


USA have won in Corea, Vietnam, Somalia, the 2008 China Olympics and now they defeated the Taliban for good.

Source: Some Hollywood movies featuring Silvester Stallone


----------



## anhminh (Aug 17, 2021)

linuxares said:


> No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.


If anything I was taught is true, they weren't able to change shit in Vietnam war either. How can you claim winning anything when you wasn't able to archive any goal?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> Trump signed for the checks and said yes and pumped them out; they were already in place with a schedule they had set. Biden can't take credit when they were already in place. Biden said no, no more to new stimulus checks (under his presidency). Get to the point without all the extra filler.


It sounds like you need to read up on the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021. It had nothing to do with Trump or any Republicans.



ChronoTrig said:


> Trump pushed for the vaccines. Biden took credit for it being distributed because Trump wasn't in office when the vaccines weren't fully released. The public acts as if Trump had no part in trying to push for it / get it out there.


While the vaccines were developed during the Trump administration, the Trump administration didn't have a vaccine distribution plan. Trump had virtually no part in "trying to push for" the vaccines. Bare minimum, Trump could have televised or at least released publicly that he had been vaccinated, but he instead did it in secret, and we didn't find out he had been vaccinated until after Biden took office.



ChronoTrig said:


> If you want to see an insurrection that everyone claims the Jan 6 capitol riots were(which they weren't), then go look at Afghanistan now with what just happened. That's an insurrection.


On January 6, 2021, a mob of Trump supporters violently attacked the Capitol in an attempt to overturn an election, and they were instigated by Trump's lie about election fraud. By definition, this was a failed Insurrection. Pointing to a successful insurrection doesn't change these facts.



ChronoTrig said:


> And like I said before, I understand you're far left and delusional, but as I said you should try to see both sides; I see both sides, not this sons of liberty nonsense.
> 
> Oh.. and Jimbo at least gets laughter and his point across instead of you as the super serious guy.


Ooo wee, I sure do wish I knew how to make posts without "extra filler" like you.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 17, 2021)

According to reporters that have covered Afghanistan from the start, the actual shock of how quickly the Taliban returned was down to failures in the US military to understand where they were and understand that at local levels negotiations between factions had been going on for ages. Its part of the culture in Afghanistan predating even the Soviets how local communities and regions get on. The US military never bothered to learn or engage with that, hence the shock as to how fast they took over. The fact they had been pumping in resources for 20 years helped the illusion that it would be indefinite hence the shock of people trying to grab on planes etc. They tried to impose a top down model of development the past 20 years that simply wouldn't stick. Too many administrations got bad advice, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden just like there are too many dumb inbred fucks on here with their hot takes based on nothing but shouting. Some are obviously doing it anticipating the Third Coming of Trump (the second will be when he can safely get his hands on his daughter with no witnesses) which is why this clickbait thread was started in the first place.


----------



## g00s3y (Aug 17, 2021)




----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Mate how can you with a serious face say that he isnt responsible for the actions of what happened?



How can you say with a straight face that Trump isn't more responsible, his motives were honorable and that he would have handled it any better.

You're just doubling down on blaming the wrong person because you love Trump.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



linuxares said:


> No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.



The Taliban only held the country between 1996 & 2001. I don't think there was ever any attention to change it beyond getting rid of the Taliban.


----------



## leon315 (Aug 17, 2021)

linuxares said:


> No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.


USA should should take note from China which they should've build more Educational camps then make all those muslim fanatics atheists.


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

Williamrubin said:


> was down to failures in the US military to understand where they were and understand that at local levels negotiations between factions had been going on for ages.



So the US military didn't know where people were hiding or that they were holding secret conversations.

It's almost as if that isn't their job.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



zxr750j said:


> I feel really sad for the woman and girls not having the chance to be who they want to be under the Taliban rules. But this also extends to other thinking people: non believers, gay people etc... I feel sad for the people but I do think this is a domestic affair: this is not the responsibility of the USA or something the states can "fix" with soldiers or dimplomacy. More moderate religious countries have the same ridiculous laws against women and minorities. This is not only a problem in Afghanistan. Again: I do feel sad for a part of the Afghan people...



I feel sad for all of them, even the religious fanatics. It can't be a great life.

Similar to how I feel sorry for Trump supporters. Americans have some weird and unhelpful ideas too.

The lucky few will escape from Afghanistan and enough leave that they have a severe brain drain then hopefully the Taliban will just collapse.


----------



## gene0915 (Aug 17, 2021)




----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Perfectly explains the Situation..


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 17, 2021)

smf said:


> So the US military didn't know where people were hiding or that they were holding secret conversations.
> 
> It's almost as if that isn't their job.
> 
> ...


----------



## SyphenFreht (Aug 17, 2021)

ChronoTrig said:


> Pretty sure Trump did a lot for the African American / blacks crowd. He even talked to Kanye West which people love.
> People need to face it.. Trump won office, did his time and now he's out and people are still trying to bring him up as a talking subject when Biden, a democrat is in office and not doing anything about the current situation.... By the way, who gave you free stimulus moneys and who also said no more?
> Trump gave you the stimulus moneys (he set them all up to take place) and Trump pushed for the vaccine. Biden took credit for the last Stimulus and also having put out the vaccine. And Biden said no more stimulus money even though our economy is still shit.



The point wasn't to make a "but Trump" argument, it was moreso to highlight the recurring argument someone in question, and by default a lot of you, use to try and prove your point. It sets precedent. 

"He even talked to Kanye..."

Jesus I hope that's not a real argument. Historically Trump has not been in favor in minorities in any sense, including blacks. The fact that he sent out stimulus checks, which are taxed, which economically speaking were only sent out to keep 'Merica's economy from tanking, is not indicative of his position regarding minorities in the slightest. Maybe if the argument was "Trump only sent checks to white people", which is hardly the point. 

Although, I understand your implication. This is about Biden, not Trump. However, if someone makes a hypocritical argument, I will point out the hypocrisy and why it is so. Kthxbye.


----------



## gene0915 (Aug 17, 2021)

I love how the Biden regime decided to leave all sorts of guns, drones and other military hardware for the Taliban to seize control of. I guess that's also the orange clown's fault too? lulz

We should have never EVER been involved in the middle east in any way shape or form but hey, gotta spread peace one, illegal Obama drone strike at a time and keep that petrodollar strong RIGHT?


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Congrats to Biden the most incompetent President 
Guns, ammunition, vehicles, helicopters. The Taliban have grabbed not only political power but also U.S.-supplied firepower as they stand to benefit from the $83 billion American investment in the Afghan forces. https://t.co/hHSTzRkiUL— The Associated Press (@AP) August 17, 2021


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

gene0915 said:


> I love how the Biden regime decided to leave all sorts of guns, drones and other military hardware for the Taliban to seize control of. I guess that's also the orange clown's fault too? lulz
> 
> We should have never EVER been involved in the middle east in any way shape or form but hey, gotta spread peace one, illegal Obama drone strike at a time and keep that petrodollar strong RIGHT?





Valwinz said:


> Congrats to Biden the most incompetent President



...lol you guys are ri-dic-ulous  . You well know that was Afghan ARMYS Equipment (yes Supplied by US) But US had no real Control of Equipment of ANOTHER COUNTRY's Equipment. After Trump signed the Agreement with the Taliban ( to Run Away) US Military moved US OWN Equipment out, What you are seeing is the Equipment that the Afghan Military gave when they Surrendered.

PS DID you the Future TALIBAN Afghan President Abdul Ghani Baradar was freed from prison at the request of the Trump administration  (not including additional 5,000 TROOP Released by Trump in 2020 )


----------



## sarkwalvein (Aug 17, 2021)

Yes, this has been a disaster... not only the withdrawal, the withdrawal has been a disaster for sure, but the whole 20 years process, across many presidents and the whole establishment, was just incompetence and money sinking... you know, the Soviets made the same mistake; but wasted only half their time and money... well, they didn't have much money left to be honest.

PS: but nonetheless, the incompetence of his predecessors doesn't make the current president any better...


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Taliban taking more questions than Joe Biden
Surreal to be watching a Taliban news conference pic.twitter.com/EkiB2A2eDi— John Haltiwanger (@jchaltiwanger) August 17, 2021


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

sarkwalvein said:


> Yes, this has been a disaster... not only the withdrawal, the withdrawal has been a disaster for sure, but the whole 20 years process, across many presidents and the whole establishment, was just incompetence and money sinking... you know, the Soviets made the same mistake; but wasted only half their time and money... well, they didn't have much money left to be honest.
> 
> PS: but nonetheless, the incompetence of his predecessors doesn't make the current president any better...


yes Afghan is a fucking mess, Biden fucked up the exit, but The Official agreement that was signed on 2/29/2020 was a crutch that Limited Biden also .. but to place the Blame Completely on Biden 8 Month in his Term is a joke


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> have them talk to the Taliban, maybe that will work better.  I am sure a few here would agree that is a good plan.


lol and there is it everyone.. The New Far Right Talking point Taliban "GOOD"









lol you guys are soo full of Hate and self loathing that you are Actually Praise "Death America " because Your "guy" is not President..
Funny after Stating Liberal wanted Trump to fail from the Start, I never Heard them Praise Bin Laden like I have the Right state the last 2 days.


----------



## gene0915 (Aug 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> lol you guys are soo full of Hate and self loathing that you are Actually Praise "Death America " because Your "guy" is not President..
> Funny after Stating Liberal wanted Trump to fail from the Start, I never Heard them Praise Bin Laden like I have the Right state the last 2 days.



Taliban = no gay marriage, death to America, death to gays, no rights for women yet they have an active Twitter account.

Orange man bad = no Twitter account.

Weird eh?

And full of hate.... you talking about antifa, BLM or liberals in general?


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

gene0915 said:


> Taliban = no gay marriage, death to America, death to gays, no rights for women yet they have an active Twitter account.
> 
> Orange man bad = no Twitter account.
> 
> ...





nintendo19 said:


> I love when people point out the complete hypocrisy of US social media.
> 
> It's amazingly funny how obvious it is they have an agenda.  And what they censor from certain US citizens but liberals and terror groups get free passes.


... oh Look ....when present with the Idiocracy of Praising Terrorists, They quickly swerve to the back up plan" Playing the Victim Card of Social Media". Mind you they refused to face the Humility of Looking up to the provers of the worst Terrorist attack in US history.


----------



## Glyptofane (Aug 17, 2021)

Xzi said:


> The reasonable take is that the GWB administration is chiefly to blame here since we never should've been in Afghanistan to begin with.  Not getting out sooner was a bipartisan failure, and the inability to stand up to the Taliban was an Afghani government/military failure.
> 
> I'm not sure what good ruminating on the tragedy will do at this point.  American forces control the Kabul airport and we're rapidly evacuating as many of our Afghani allies as possible.  The lessons going forward are obvious: imperialism doesn't work, long-term occupation of a foreign country doesn't work.  We need to get out of all current conflicts ASAP, and not insert ourselves into any new ones.  The US military's role in other countries should be strictly humanitarian, in missions that have a clearly defined timetable, and their budget should be cut significantly.


Exactly, the war itself is the failure, or perhaps something even worse as there was never even a legitimate point. This pullout is probably about as smooth as it was ever going to be. I look at this 20 year nonsense as sort of a vanity occupation that served as a threat that the US still has the means and balls to come wreck your shit and stay there indefinitely. What finally ending it actually portends may be the worrisome part. USSR collapsed like two years after pulling out of Afghanistan, and while it may or may not signal imminent collapse in our case as well, I suspect it really does come down to the inability to continue paying for it.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 17, 2021)

I don't know guys why you keep arguin with some people here who have a strong feeling that they are right, while in reality this will be very dark and troublesome times for woman and people who want fair rights in Afghanistan. Most people in America are not ok on how Biden botched this operation and now people are on their (Afghanistan) own who out of desperation are giving roses to the extremist to give the impression that they are not mad. Those people are scared beyond scared. Some people here are in denial because it doesn't affect them, they defend this barbaric act while most sane normal people condemn this.

Some woman have given an interview where they said its a matter of time until they go through their home doors and be executed.

But as they say, time will tell. Afghanistan will be a place were other extremist will go and from there plan out attacks.

All of the highest commands, even Bush old ones (The moron who started this) said that Biden made a very strategic mistake. China is laughing at the once so "powerfull" strongest nation.

I say it, China will take action, they have seen how weak the Biden administration is. This will be very hard enduring 3 years to come. Biden will screw more, this will be not his only mistake. You will see the people defending him go into silence when the next disaster of the administration hits. Tick tock tick tock.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Aug 17, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I don't know guys why you keep arguin with some people here who have a strong feeling that they are right, while in reality this will be very dark and troublesome times for woman and people who want fair rights in Afghanistan. Most people in America are not ok on how Biden botched this operation and now people are on their (Afghanistan) own who out of desperation are giving roses to the extremist to give the impression that they are not mad. Those people are scared beyond scared. Some people here are in denial because it doesn't affect them, they defend this barbaric act while most sane normal people condemn this.
> 
> Some woman have given an interview where they said its a matter of time until they go through their home doors and be executed.
> 
> ...


I wonder what will be the key events that will be remembered regarding the collapse of the empire. 

With the USSR one usually remembers Afghanistan, the Berlin Wall,  the Baltic chain... what will it be with America?

Meanwhile the world goes back to the middle ages, with dangerous fanatic nationalism all around the globe... Great times here on Earth...


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Aug 17, 2021)

We can't pin all of it on Biden. Sure, he says "the buck ends" with him, but that doesn't mean he and his administration takes 100% the blame, it means he won't just lend the problem off to the next President after him and so he plans to let the war end during his term and not to the next future President. At the very least, he owned up to his mistakes and takes those criticisms instead of blaming it on others.

Yes, the withdrawal executed terribly, but they didn't expect Kabul to suddenly be captured within a day. They thought the Afghan troops would at least fight back and give around a month or so for more time to get US troops home and other preparations for evacuation. But instead, the Afghan troops decided to surrender and not even try to fight back as the Taliban rushed in and took it over within a day. The Afghan troops had an overwhelming number, 300,000, against less than 100,000 Taliban forces and even had better weapons, supplies, and equipment. But they practically didn't do much of anything as soon as US was about to leave and it all crumbled down.

We've also already seen reports how corrupt the Afghan government was. Pocketing money for their own selves, lying to people saying it was going well, troops not taking training seriously or even caring, etc. It was a culmination of multiple factors spanning 20 years from Bush (who started it) to Obama (not choosing to leave after OBL was taken down) to Trump (signed a terrible peace treaty without conversing with the Afghan government and even released 5000 Taliban troops some of which included the co-founder and some took part in taking over Kabul) to finally ending with Biden (was naïve and trusted too much on the Afghan government to do things well).

$2 Trillion spent throughout 20 years, 300,000 Afghan troops/policeman "trained" and given lots of weapons and supplies all of which went to waste because they surrendered so easily and readily, and many more issues that happened behind the scenes on all sides. It was an unwinnable war from the get go and it was only a matter of time that it would have come to that point.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

another Biden VICOTRY 
WSJ: Thousands of Afghans employed by Western embassies & NGOs in Kabul remained stranded and unable to reach the airport for evacuation flights as the Taliban erected checkpoints at airport entrances, whipping and beating Afghans who attempted to cross. https://t.co/vtyIQcNfYW— John McCormack (@McCormackJohn) August 17, 2021


----------



## pustal (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Congrats to Biden the most incompetent President
> https://twitter.com/AP/status/1427454389959135232



Funny, because I seem to rember a certain president that had a certain report where it was found that he acted with criminal intent but exculpatory incompetence. I believe that wins the podium.

Biden could have done things better, even go back in the agreement with the Taliban, you know the one made by Trump who also is responsible for freeing a pressuring to free a lot of talibans, including Baladar - but to want to pin this all this mess on him alone is laughable at best, after everything that came from Bush to the present.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

It seems that Biden himself was moving troops around according to Jake Sullivan that's explains the chaos 
What did Jake Sullivan mean by Biden giving him and Milley “direction and guidance” about the troop deployments & direction of mission in Afghanistan?Did they just accidentally slip and admit Biden doesn’t actually call any of the shots?— ⭐️Amy Tarkanian⭐️ (@MrsT106) August 17, 2021


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> It seems that Biden himself was moving troops around according to Jake Sullivan that's explains the chaos
> https://twitter.com/MrsT106/status/1427690713748316166


hey look its a bird, its a plane... no its a random tweet of Someone Reaching!


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

djpannda said:


> hey look its a bird, its a plane... no its a random tweet of Someone Reaching!



I know you are mad that your husband Biden is collapsing but Jake Sullivan is speaking right now


----------



## sarkwalvein (Aug 17, 2021)

I'm not sure why you discuss with so much emotion about Biden this or Trump that (to the point of fanboyism)... when the system is competed broken and all these presidents are but Marionettes of the establishment wearing different coloured costumes.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> I know you are mad that your husband Biden is collapsing but Jake Sullivan is speaking right now


haha I get it... you made a Homophobic joke in 2021!  because your one of those People that still believe in a archaic notion that a persons sexuality is makes that Individual looks "weak" because they usually harbor Insecurities of Their own perceived Sexuality. NICE!


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Reminder to ignore people that are trying to derail this topic. i will keep posting facts about this happening


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Reminder to ignore people that are trying to derail this topic. i will keep posting facts about this happening


man people tend to love deflecting when they are called out... but your right .. the facts
Here is a timeline of Events.. These are Facts. 
2018 - Abdul Ghani Baradar was freed from prison at the request of the Trump administration
2020 - Abdul Ghani Baradar met with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo
2020 OCT- Donald Trump states that the US need to leave Afghanistan by Xmas 2020
2020 FEB 29, Donal Trump SIGNS agreement with the Taliban, which states that US will remove all Troops if the Taliban does not attack Americans.( no mention of not taking over Afghanistan. 
2021 June- Trump admits that He created the agreement iron clad so Biden could not back out only Delay  “I started the process, all the troops are coming home, they (Biden) couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. They (Biden) couldn’t stop the process, they (Biden) wanted to but couldn’t stop the process.”
2021 - Abdul Ghani Baradar is set to become the next President of Afghanistan


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Biden has no plan 
What happens to the billions of dollars worth of weaponry that the US gave Afghanistan? Does the US have a plan for that?”
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1427699535200100360


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Biden has no plan
> What happens to the billions of dollars worth of weaponry that the US gave Afghanistan? Does the US have a plan for that?”
> https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1427699535200100360


are you suggesting the USA Take back all the equipment that Sold/Donated... you know there no Takeis backies in real world right??


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Lacius said:


> It sounds like you need to read up on the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021. It had nothing to do with Trump or any Republicans.
> 
> 
> While the vaccines were developed during the Trump administration, the Trump administration didn't have a vaccine distribution plan. Trump had virtually no part in "trying to push for" the vaccines. Bare minimum, Trump could have televised or at least released publicly that he had been vaccinated, but he instead did it in secret, and we didn't find out he had been vaccinated until after Biden took office.
> ...




If you would stop distracting/derailing from the Biden administrations humanitarian disaster that would be great, thanks.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Biden has no plan
> What happens to the billions of dollars worth of weaponry that the US gave Afghanistan? Does the US have a plan for that?”
> https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1427699535200100360



are you  also Implying That President Biden was the One who gave Billion $ of Weapon to Afghanistan in 8 Months? and that was not over 20 year and 4 different Presidents


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> If you would stop distracting/derailing from the Biden administrations humanitarian disaster that would be great, thanks.


I'm only responding to the points people make. I'm not the one offering distractions/derailment. I'm also not the one initiating posts directed at a single user unrelated to the topic, lol. Oof.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> I know this is off topic, but you guys got me looking at twitter now.
> 
> The Taliban is even calling out US social media now.
> 
> ...




In before Lacius is calling people islamaphobes for saying the Taliban is not sincere about their commitment to womens rights.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> I know this is off topic, but you guys got me looking at twitter now.
> 
> The Taliban is even calling out US social media now.
> 
> Too funny.  Sorry if it is not pretty, don't know  how you embed links properly here.


WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU, DIDNT YOU JUST LISTEN TO  JIMBO13


jimbo13 said:


> If you would stop distracting/derailing from the Biden administrations humanitarian disaster that would be great, thanks.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> In before Lacius is calling people islamaphobes for saying the Taliban is not sincere about their commitment to womens rights.



There's reason to think they're insincere.
Have the guts to tag me if you're going to address me. Thanks.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Hey it is Taliban related, and I did say it is off topic I know.
> 
> And to be fair I am not re-directing because I am unhappy with the thread topic like some of you.


Do I don't make The Rules, You have to Take it up with JIMBO


----------



## dpad_5678 (Aug 17, 2021)

I love that video where Trump boasts about pulling troops out of Afghanistan. Weak lil orange dude.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Is over 
Today, for the first time ever, Biden's approval rating fell below 50%. His disapproval, which started at 35% in February, is now 46.1%. Don't believe the happy talk on MSNBC about how the American people agree with leaving Afghanistan. They are appalled at this disaster. pic.twitter.com/NBteXbrk9T— Scott Whitlock (@ScottJW) August 17, 2021


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 17, 2021)

I know people are either blaming Biden or Trump or Bush or whoever for this disaster, and while I agree this is the fault of multiple people, going into a 20 year war that was only going on for money and power, and it shows since we didn't even teach the afgans shit in the 20 years we were there, the main reason why people place the blame solely on Biden is because he said so himself:



HE HIMSELF said that whoever is president in the time of a crisis needs to take personal accountability, he said it, he needs to stand up and eat his own words. So yeah, maybe it's not squarely his fault, even though he did have a hand in it in the past and how he screwed up now, but since he said the president should take personal accountability, then he should do it and take the full blame, if not, we'll call out his old tired add on his own hypocrisy on blaming literally everyone else but himself. He's in power, it's his administration, no one elses, so yeah, going by his own words, it might as well be all his fault considering the multitude of things he could've done to make this go way better but didn't, from evacuations to leaving our own damn equipment behind for the bad guys to use. Yes, we did own that equipment, and we just left it there for the Taliban to take it, that's a fact. I mean, if he wanted the other people to share the blame for their part in this situation now he should've never opened his old, saggy mouth and said "I'll take all the responsibility as president."

Remember, to be successful in life, always say one thing but mean completely something else.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Is over
> https://twitter.com/ScottJW/status/1427730248574148608


you do know that the last Admin did not have a aproval rate higher then 49





Let us when if he hit lower the the abysmal 34% ....


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

They have nothing they are so mad their boy Biden is collapsing that all they have left is Orange man bad


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I know people are either blaming Biden or Trump or Bush or whoever for this disaster, and while I agree this is the fault of multiple people, going into a 20 year war that was only going on for money and power, and it shows since we didn't even teach the afgans shit in the 20 years we were there, the main reason why people place the blame solely on Biden is because he said so himself:




Good luck being reasonable, leftist partisans are going full 1984 tarded on this one.     They will simultaneously credit Biden for the Withdrawal while blaming Trump for the Withdrawal.   IMO, point and laugh.


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

Williamrubin said:


> If youre suggesting the CIA fucked up in terms of intelligence gathering then fair enough.



Yes.

But then it's still quite hard to know if people are meeting in secret. I think everyone knows not to carry their mobile phone around with them now.


----------



## Soulsilve2010 (Aug 17, 2021)

Personally I think it's idiotic to blame only one person for this clusterfuck,at the very least 3-4 presidents are responsible for all this starting with Bush.And we all know the war was never about being heroes it was about making money and getting revenge against Osama,we in no way ever intended to save the country or it's people from anything.Sure it would be the right thing to do but at this point when the Taliban can just walk forward and not even the local army fights back then the odds of getting a victory are slim.


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Good luck being reasonable, leftist partisans are going full 1984 tarded on this one.     They will simultaneously credit Biden for the Withdrawal while blaming Trump for the Withdrawal.   IMO, point and laugh.



Ironically it's the Trumptards who are going full retard and congratulating Trump for the withdrawal and blaming Joe Biden for it.

You're right, point and laugh. We're pointing at you.

I'm not congratulating anyone.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Ironically it's the Trumptards are going full retard and congratulating Trump for the withdrawal and blaming Joe Biden for it.
> 
> You're right, point and laugh. We're pointing at you.
> 
> I'm not congratulating anyone.



You're not a we, and I take nothing seriously from people who tolerate a monarchy.  Maybe if your color something pretty I'll put it on the fridge.


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Your not a we.



Everyone is laughing at you for your deranged posts. I'm not sure if you are a troll or actually believe the shit you post. Maybe you need help.

But no matter how real your delusion seems, it is all provably false.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Keeps getting worst jesus More blood on Biden hands
Human remains were found in the landing gear of a military flight from the Kabul airport, the U.S. Air Force said https://t.co/T1LHFaY1V3 1/2 pic.twitter.com/i7qn9oCphC— Reuters (@Reuters) August 17, 2021


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

Soulsilve2010 said:


> And we all know the war was never about being heroes it was about making money and getting revenge against Osama,



Revenge yes, I'm not sure about money. I would have thought that if anything it cost them money.



Valwinz said:


> Keeps getting worst jesus More blood on Biden hands



On Trumps tiny hands. Don't forget Trump too credit for the withdrawal.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Everyone is laughing at you for your deranged posts. I'm not sure if you are a troll or actually believe the shit you post. Maybe you need help.



We have roughly A 70/30 partisan divide on these forums, only the marxist identity unicorns show disapproval of my post which is the majority but I  am happy everyone right of Marx tends to be supportive.

You can always spot a triggered leftist when they start referring to themselves as we and speaking for everyone.


----------



## smf (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> We have roughly A 70/30 partisan divide on these forums, only the marxist identity unicorns show disapproval of my post which is the majority but I  am happy everyone right of Marx tends to be supportive.
> 
> You can always spot a triggered leftist when they start referring to themselves as we and speaking for everyone.



You can always spot a deluded Trump supporter, they think everyone who disagrees with them is marxist.

Your fellow delusional Trump supporters obviously support you, because they are deluded. You lack the ability to see that it shouldn't really be any comfort.

Please get mental health help.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

smf said:


> You can always spot a deluded Trump supporter, they think everyone who disagrees with them is marxist.
> 
> Your fellow delusional Trump supporters obviously support you, because they are deluded.
> 
> Please get mental health help.



Or unlike you they actually live in the United States and are in the economy and know it was substantively better here under Trump instead of pretending they know the reality because of what state media told them to think.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 17, 2021)

smf said:


> Yes.
> 
> But then it's still quite hard to know if people are meeting in secret. I think everyone knows not to carry their mobile phone around with them now.



...thats what developing human assets on the ground is for?! Like any proper intelligence agency does?! Y'know, like they done during WWII, the Cold War etc? Though theyve been over dependent on ELINT for waaaay too long and its caught them out again.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> Is over
> https://twitter.com/ScottJW/status/1427730248574148608





Valwinz said:


> Keeps getting worst jesus More blood on Biden hands
> https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1427732168575524872



Admins, this braindead twat and original poster is at it all the time. Theres a pattern too, anytime a bit of sense threatens to come into the thread it posts some other bullshit from Twitter. Its not about debate at all, theyre just another gimped troll. Do your jobs and ban them.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 17, 2021)

Some individuals in here have there head so far in the sand that they dont see the reality we are in now. Still the whole Trump blame thing. No one forced Biden, he in the end GAVE the order to be executed to leave and he made a failure of it. He rejected all Trumps policies yet he kept going with the withdrawal. In 8 months his administration is like a domino, mistakes mistakes like the South border chaos.

The chance of a 911 part 2 sequel is now more likely than the passing years. People who voted Biden just are in pure denial. As i said, im not a Trump nor Biden fan but dont expect to see things go to normal now that the world saw this huge embarassement to the current Biden admnistration. China doesnt even fear nor think that USA will do anything since Afghanistan was for them some kind of way to how of incompetent they acted.

Kamala Harris is nowhere to be seen, Biden still on his vacation, and the white House giving vague answers to reporters.

But i think even if an attack occurs on US  soil, the denials here will still blame it on Trump. Trump has all the fault but the administration of Biden who couldn't even get its own citizens out of Afghanistan in time has done no wrong according the denials.

Forgeiners were told since April to leave Afghanistan yet Biden admnistration kept saying nothing to worry everything is ok. The extremist warned people to get out, again Biden yet again ignored it. So, is that all Trumps fault? Because i dont know, Trump is no more in office and Biden is the one barking the orders? 

US intelligence are warning for a potential 911 part 2 but again the imcomptence morons in the White House are saying: No the extremist are changed, they will do nothing. They will make same mistake they made in 2001. They asked the extremist to allowed them to get Bin Laden, they REFUSED.

Biden needs to accept that he botched it, fire his advisors who advised him about Afghanistan and look for a solution before things goes really really south.


----------



## ClancyDaEnlightened (Aug 17, 2021)

Meanwhile:


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 17, 2021)

aadz93 said:


> Meanwhile:
> 
> 
> View attachment 273362



He got already out of Afghanistan, he is now in Saudi Arabia. He and other people including Afghan refugees left the country.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 17, 2021)

Soulsilve2010 said:


> Personally I think it's idiotic to blame only one person for this clusterfuck,at the very least 3-4 presidents are responsible for all this starting with Bush.And we all know the war was never about being heroes it was about making money and getting revenge against Osama,we in no way ever intended to save the country or it's people from anything.Sure it would be the right thing to do but at this point when the Taliban can just walk forward and not even the local army fights back then the odds of getting a victory are slim.



Out of the 4 Presidents who oversaw Afghanistan,  3 supported the war and voted/signed for it.   1  being Donald Trump opposed it consistently since 2004 and only major contribution was ordering a withdrawal.

That's not idiotic, that is a fact.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Holy shit 
NEW 🚨 Al Jazeera anchor says unlike Biden yesterday, Taliban spokesperson Mujahid took questions after his speech— Insider Paper (@TheInsiderPaper) August 17, 2021


----------



## Lacius (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Out of the 4 Presidents who oversaw Afghanistan,  3 supported the war and voted/signed for it.   1  being Donald Trump opposed it consistently since 2004 and only major contribution was ordering a withdrawal.
> 
> That's not idiotic, that is a fact.


One successfully ended it, and three did not.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 17, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Holy shit
> https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1427742316102574088


So we are back to …The New Far Right Talking point  “Biden BAD, Taliban GOOD"










lol you guys really love America


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 17, 2021)

Stuff is so bad they had to call Biden back from his Vacation AGAIN AHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAH get the popcorn ready who is he going to blame now

The White House has lifted the lid issued earlier today and is calling the press pool back for the president to return to the White House at 8:40 p.m. from Camp David.(A lid essentially means the president won't be seen for the rest of the day and the press pool can go home.)— Kathryn Watson (@kathrynw5) August 17, 2021


----------



## Xzi (Aug 17, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Out of the 4 Presidents who oversaw Afghanistan, 3 supported the war and voted/signed for it. 1 being Donald Trump opposed it consistently since 2004 and only major contribution was ordering a withdrawal.


Your research is lacking, Obama was a state Senator when the federal government voted to go to war with Afghanistan/Iraq.  Trump voiced support for both wars before we invaded, he doesn't get credit for flip-flopping later in an attempt to chase the mainstream opinion.



djpannda said:


> So we are back to …The New Far Right Talking point  “Biden BAD, Taliban GOOD"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beat me to it.  This is what happens to your brain when you overdose on culture wars.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Aug 17, 2021)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_actions_by_Joe_Biden

Seems like Joe's been a busy old beaver. In between sniffing random people, it looks like he's issued 50 (fifty) executive orders in the past 8 months, at least a fifth of which are directly covid correlated, another handful more directly related to getting our school's reopened and the economy back on track after the epidemic, and quite a few others relating to how we interact with other nations. It's funny how in the Covid thread a bunch of you were criticizing Biden for not responding fast enough to covid, and now here you are criticizing him again for not taking action sooner on the withdrawal and acting quicker. But then yet again, we have "someone" above relating leftists to wanting a monarchy and calling Biden out for not "Thanos-ing" these bills, laws, actions, what- have- you. You guys do understand the standing president is basically a figurehead? I mean, if Biden could enact all these things instantaneously well, we'd have ourselves quite the totalitarian style government, wouldn't we?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Yes the situation in Afghanistan is terrible. Could Biden be doing a better job? Maybe. But before you Trumpers get back to criticizing him for taking a vacation, double check to see how often your old president took vacations, especially during the:

Pandemic,
Riots,
Mass Shootings,
Natural Disasters,
Etc,

And ask yourself why Biden is scrutinized so harshly not even a year into his presidency.

The guy tripped going up the stairs and gives speeches almost as bad as Trump did.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...o-executive-order-13949-and-delegation-to-the

Extra credit. Seeing as how Iran and Afghanistan are such good buddies, it'd make sense that Afghanistan would be pretty upset if they had all of their U.S. based possessions seized because of Trumps executive order. Could be why Afghani soldiers are seizing millions of dollars worth of military weapons and tech we left behind to hurry our soldiers home. 

"Yeah, well, they should've just sent all the soldiers home at once!"

Riiiiight. Because our economy was hit so significantly hard after the covid epidemic, and due to massive amounts of finances being rerouted from various departments as part of executive orders from both sitting and immediately former presidents, I can't imagine they have too much money to throw overseas. I mean, "maybe" they could send some massive jimbo jets overseas to grab our soldiers, but wouldn't all those big planes be easily shot down by terrorists? Not too mention we're also evacuating natives who want to escape the terrorism as well. 

But please God you guys, tell us more about how leftists are looney Marxists who want to make sweet, sweet love to both Satan and the terrorists. 

Are we sure Alex Jones doesn't have a couple accounts on here?


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> One successfully ended it, and three did not.


 

Lol at that definition of  "successfully".


----------



## Lacius (Aug 18, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Lol at that definition of  "successfully".


Last I checked, the United States was leaving.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

Its unbelivable that those extremist gave a more detailed conference than the US administration gave the public. Its beyond embarrasing, i cannot wrap my mind how the US administration is handling this. So horrible for the people who lost their lifes to just return back to zero to 2001. Kamala Harris nowhere, Biding not even around to answer question, just a majestyc fail on all corner.

I've been watching the news all day and night and every mayor news outlet are shredding to pieces Biden administration.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 18, 2021)

Thirty pages in, is anyone actually buying the idea that conservatives give a shit about the Afghan people?  Y'all would've made a much bigger deal of it when Trump decided to legitimize and negotiate with the Taliban if you did.  Instead you celebrated it like it was the greatest foreign policy accomplishment of the last hundred years.  Many of your political leaders are already saying the quiet part out loud, so you may as well too: the Taliban represent your ideology and values much better than the puppet government/military in Afghanistan did.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 18, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Or unlike you they actually live in the United States and are in the economy and know it was substantively better here under Trump instead of pretending they know the reality because of what state media told them to think.


Actually, under Trump was pretty bleak unless you were a wall street investor. Homelessness became more of an issue, evictions became more of an issue, and the unemployment numbers were extremely misleading due to scaling inflation versus wages for livable incomes. Nice try though, Jimbo. I hope you have better luck hunting bison in your national park with your pile of women and drugs (actual claims made by this lovely human being~)


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Its unbelivable that those extremist gave a more detailed conference than the US administration gave the public. Its beyond embarrasing, i cannot wrap my mind how the US administration is handling this. So horrible for the people who lost their lifes to just return back to zero to 2001. Kamala Harris nowhere, Biding not even around to answer question, just a majestyc fail on all corner.
> 
> I've been watching the news all day and night and every mayor news outlet are shredding to pieces Biden administration.


So we are back to …The New Far Right Talking point “Biden BAD, Taliban GOOD" again.. ::::insert   Picture of The Right loving Taliban..::: jeez most of you guy’s talking point  are not only predictable. (Cuz you are just parroting yourselfs from parlor/4-8chan/ and patriot.win ) it’s also insulting to Service member that served/suffered/died because of the Taliban and yet you use it as a political game.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> So we are back to …The New Far Right Talking point “Biden BAD, Taliban GOOD" again.. ::::insert   Picture of The Right loving Taliban..::: jeez most of you guy’s talking point  are not only predictable. (Cuz you are just parroting yourselfs from parlor/4-8chan/ and patriot.win ) it’s also insulting to Service member that served/suffered/died because of the Taliban and yet you use it as a political game.



I really tend to believe that you must be trolling at this point because no way a normal rational person can agree with what is going on at the moment. Even Bidens most highest officials who warned Biden what would happen agree that its a whole catastrophe.

Even a Pakistani official is deeply concerned that the once put in to the Shadows Al-Qaeda might return.

How can you be so blind? You must be really joking. I believe at the moment that if Biden would tell you to go to Afghanistan and yell the West is the best! That you wouldn't hesistate to grab a plane and do that. You are blindly following a man who have now put many lifes in danger because he didn't listen to his advisors and botched the whole leaving out of Afghanistan.

Its funny also that you deflect so much of the conversations that people post. Only picking out what you think that you find a "flaw"

Keep going mate, you probably will be promoted by Biden to lawn mowing at the White House soon since you defend him to oblivion and beyond.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I really tend to believe that you must be trolling at this point because no way a normal rational person can agree with what is going on at the moment. Even Bidens most highest officials who warned Biden what would happen agree that its a whole catastrophe.
> 
> Even a Pakistani official is deeply concerned that the once put in to the Shadows Al-Qaeda might return.
> 
> ...


Is he a troll, or is he blindly devoted? Pick a story and stick to it.


----------



## titan_tim (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Even a Pakistani official is deeply concerned that the once put in to the Shadows Al-Qaeda might return.



If Pakistan is worried about themselves, it's kind of hard to feel any empathy for them at this point.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Is he a troll, or is he blindly devoted? Pick a story and stick to it.



Nice one, proved my point above. There is no way to pass your "Defense walls" The US may be attacked and you lot will be arguin yeah it was Trump.

Your president needs to man up and accept that he put the world in danger by his irrational decision.

He lied that Afghan people are not fighting, yet there is Massoud son who is putting his life on danger to do something while Biden is hiding and evading questions.

But we will see when an attack happens, what you Biden followers will say.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I really tend to believe that you must be trolling at this point because no way a normal rational person can agree with what is going on at the moment. Even Bidens most highest officials who warned Biden what would happen agree that its a whole catastrophe.
> 
> Even a Pakistani official is deeply concerned that the once put in to the Shadows Al-Qaeda might return.
> 
> ...


Soo.. your saying you do need to see the picture of the talking points from the right? Ok if you insist
  “Biden BAD, Taliban GOOD"



















… man I don’t know 1. If those post are going to age well 2. If they even care


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Soo.. your saying you do need to see the picture of the talking points from the right? Ok if you insist
> “Biden BAD, Taliban GOOD"
> 
> 
> ...



Your name should be "Bored Panda" Because never did i state that those extremist are good. Are you smoking something? Because i dont know in between in your post they are commenting that those extremist are nothing but good.

Give me a link were it says that the US goverment comments that those extremist are good, Because im watching the news all day and the whole administration is being wrecked to pieces due to the Bidens choices of abandoning Afghanistan withs its own citizens in it.

Where is your president? He in hiding. Shouldnt he be with the nation instead of being away from all this catastrophe?

You lot must be really desperate to disprove everything what is going on.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Your name should be "Bored Panda" Because never did i state that those extremist are good. Are you smoking something? Because i dont know in between in your post they are commenting that those extremist are nothing but good.
> 
> Give me a link were it says that the US goverment comments that those extremist are good, Because im watching the news all day and the whole administration is being wrecked to pieces due to the Bidens choices of abandoning Afghanistan withs its own citizens in it.
> 
> ...


Lol you give to too much credit, no way in trying to “desperate to disprove everything” I’m just trying to disprove 1.“non-fake” user spam tweeting random nobodies and 2.users that get a kick from posting board-line racist/sexist/homophobic garbage and 3.horrible gullible people who are susceptible to right wing propaganda and …..that want to cause shit on a…. ( *and this is the important part* ) ..a *RETRO VIDEO GAME WEBSITE!! *


----------



## RivenMain (Aug 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Lol you give to too much credit, no way in trying to “desperate to disprove everything” I’m just trying to disprove 1.“non-fake” user spam tweeting random nobodies and 2.users that get a kick from posting board-line racist/sexist/homophobic garbage and 3.horrible gullible people who are susceptible to right wing propaganda and …..that want to cause shit on a…. ( *and this is the important part* ) ..a *RETRO VIDEO GAME WEBSITE!! *



So uhh  "3.horrible gullible people who are susceptible to right wing propaganda" That seems pretty biased af  not calling out the opposite side of the dice there. I'd  argue heavily against your last point of this just being a gaming website. Reason being Hillary Clinton largest referrals to their campaign was neogaf.  We aren't neogaf, but it shows gaming sites can be biased wouldn't you say?

 90% of all news is left wing. and because of it source credibility will always be scrutinized much heavier to republicans. So your point of being against right wing propagandists doesn't make sense when it's much more likely to be left propaganda. If I'm interested in the media I go deep diving, not because I'm scrapping for a narrative, but that the 1st pages of google, the 1st pages of youtube they are the same company I can use different search engines and get vastly different answers about incidents where things are intentionally left out that'd change the story in its entirety and the news ends up gaslighting the stories to push what is propaganda/ biased journalism.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

RivenMain said:


> So uhh  "3.horrible gullible people who are susceptible to right wing propaganda" That seems pretty biased af  not calling out the opposite side of the dice there. I'd  argue heavily against your last point of this just being a gaming website. Reason being Hillary Clinton largest referrals to their campaign was neogaf.  We aren't neogaf, but it shows gaming sites can be biased wouldn't you say?
> 
> 90% of all news is left wing. and because of it source credibility will always be scrutinized much heavier to republicans. So your point of being against right wing propagandists doesn't make sense when it's much more likely to be left propaganda. If I'm interested in the media I go deep diving, not because I'm scrapping for a narrative, but that the 1st pages of google, the 1st pages of youtube they are the same company I can use different search engines and get vastly different answers about incidents where things are intentionally left out that'd change the story in its entirety and the news ends up gaslighting the stories to push what is propaganda/ biased journalism.


. Number 3, I see


----------



## KingVamp (Aug 18, 2021)

These guys care so much. I'm sure all of them will be ok with us taking in refugees.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> These guys care so much. I'm sure all of them will be ok with us taking in refugees.


That Their Talking Point for later in the week 
HERES A SNEEK PEEK 
*Laura Ingraham: “Is it really our responsibility to welcome thousands of potentially unvetted refugees from Afghanistan?”*


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> These guys care so much. I'm sure all of them will be ok with us taking in refugees.



What does taking refugees has to do with this conversation? No one is talking about taking in refugees. If Biden did his work correctly we wouldn't be taking refugees on first place, so who are you kidding? The refugee crisis is on the incompetent administration of Biden. Still deflecting many questions as usual. I've noticed that you lot has a habit to insert unrelated topics that none is talking about ( Look a few post back about talking how "Good" the extremist are, no one said that)

But how things would be if you were one of those refugees, your country gets tonked and botched by a government with no plan, nothing and then you hear in your face no we dont want you, go back. You're lucky that you have the luxury that you have now while those people are doing everything they can to get away from the mess created by your loving ice cream eating president.

Again, no one is talking about refugees. If you dont have any clue about the situation, go asap to Kabul and see what the US have done.

As i said, Biden needs to fire all the morons that advised him, start cleaning House and be a leader that helps the people not abandoning them. We have 3 years to go, he needs to man up otherwise the US will be a puppet play ground and the big countries like China will do anything they want, creating another mess.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 18, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> These guys care so much. I'm sure all of them will be ok with us taking in refugees.



Canada has the room and 1/4 of the population, we've had our share it's wouldn't be fair to hog all of the "enrichment" for ourselves.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> What does taking refugees has to do with this conversation? No one is talking about taking in refugees. If Biden did his work correctly we wouldn't be taking refugees on first place, so who are you kidding? The refugee crisis is on the incompetent administration of Biden. Still deflecting many questions as usual. I've noticed that you lot has a habit to insert unrelated topics that none is talking about ( Look a few post back about talking how "Good" the extremist are, no one said that)
> 
> But how things would be if you were one of those refugees, your country gets tonked and botched by a government with no plan, nothing and then you hear in your face no we dont want you, go back. You're lucky that you have the luxury that you have now while those people are doing everything they can to get away from the mess created by your loving ice cream eating president.
> 
> ...



Waitwaitwait... are you actually pushing for some measure of animosity to China in the middle of all this? And how does a president whose only spent less than a full year in office own fixing a problem two two-term republican presidents introduced us to and perpetuated?

My spouse and I both served since this whole mess began, a mess that never had any sensible way out, and we've had friends and family traumatized and killed in the line of duty. Nobody wanted to die occupying a country that never wanted us there to begin with, and there was no clear path to stabilization in the region, so unless you want to enlist and rally the drums of war from on the front lines and prove you're not just virtue signaling, I cordially invite you to eat your foot in the corner. Maybe take Jimbo's hand out of your rectum too, you're making Val jealous.

Also, given Trump's obesity, I'm pretty sure he eats more ice cream than Biden.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 18, 2021)

I'm not sure how taking refugee's comes into this, because I don't care about what happens to the middle east, nor do I want it's cowardice populace who didn't want to fight but rather flee to another country and bring their shit with them over here.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Waitwaitwait... are you actually pushing for some measure of animosity to China in the middle of all this? And how does a president whose only spent less than a full year in office own fixing a problem two two-term republican presidents introduced us to and perpetuated?
> 
> My spouse and I both served since this whole mess began, a mess that never had any sensible way out, and we've had friends and family traumatized and killed in the line of duty. Nobody wanted to die occupying a country that never wanted us there to begin with, and there was no clear path to stabilization in the region, so unless you want to enlist and rally the drums of war from on the front lines and prove you're not just virtue signaling, I cordially invite you to eat your foot in the corner. Maybe take Jimbo's hand out of your rectum too, you're making Val jealous.
> 
> Also, given Trump's obesity, I'm pretty sure he eats more ice cream than Biden.



Classic answer, i knew one of you lot would react exactly like this, go figure.

You lot are ignoring and dodging many replies and picking out what "Interest" you all.

Trump had a withdrawal date, May 2021, for an unknown reason Biden pushed that all to September 2021. Even after a few months has passed since May, Biden waited until the very last minute to withdraw, leaving citizens in harms way to potential harm.

Secondly, if Biden just followed through the plan of instead deflecting it to proof a point that he ignored Trump he wouldn't defnitely be in the mess that he is in now. He failed miserably. He had months to do things in a good swiftly way.

Respect to you and your spouse for serving, thank you kindly both.

But at the end of the day its Biden that made the decision, he solely decided to do how it happened and he is to blame for it.

Can you tell me where Kamala Harris is? She is gone awol and she is doing a terrible job with the whole Southern borders.

You can point everything what you want, Biden botched it.

Its funny that you cant even answer why Biden rejected every Trump policies yet he kept going on with Trumps plan to withdraw.

Im telling you, China is watching, 100% and those big countries are losing the respect they had for the US. How can Biden even defend Taiwan when he botched it hard and failed the Afghan people?

All he had to do was remove its citizens, get out all the weapons that are now in the hands of those extremist, destroy the embassy and bring all the soldiers home. He had plenty of time to do it. That is why i say it again, he needs to fire the incompetent advisors, clean the whole house.


----------



## KingVamp (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> What does taking refugees has to do with this conversation? No one is talking about taking in refugees. If Biden did his work correctly we wouldn't be taking refugees on first place, so who are you kidding?


Just wondering if people are being consistent, with how much they actually care. As someone pointed out, the contempt seems to be missing when talking about Trump's deal with the Taliban. As for doing things correctly, we had 20 years to do so, when we shouldn't have been there in the first place.


----------



## jimbo13 (Aug 18, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> Just wondering if people are being consistent, with how much they actually care. As someone pointed out, the contempt seems to be missing when talking about Trump's deal with the Taliban. As for doing things correctly, we had 20 years to do so, when we shouldn't have been there in the first place.



We care less than the other 1000 countries that don't care and wont be taking them either, Lecture Canadians.


Just remember this next time a progressive wants to lecture you on the importance of masking, No price is ever to high for THEIR priorities.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> We care less than the other 1000 countries that don't care and wont be taking them either, Lecture Canadians.





DoubleDate said:


> What does taking refugees has to do with this conversation?





BitMasterPlus said:


> I'm not sure how taking refugee's comes into this, because I don't care about what happens to the middle east, nor do I want it's cowardice populace who didn't want to fight but rather flee to another country and bring their shit with them over here.


Lol lol guess that talking point advances quicker than thought..  so your arugement is that “*look at Afghanistan, Biden is so Bad, he abandoned them and now he’s allowing equipment and the people to get captured/killed.. but we should only get back the equipment.. fuck those people that we pretend to care about ( that was for show, we really don’t care, we just wanted to make Biden look bad)” *
Wow you guys really are 1-2-3s, as you care bout a m16 rifles more then your fellow man . WWJD


----------



## smf (Aug 18, 2021)

Williamrubin said:


> ...thats what developing human assets on the ground is for?! Like any proper intelligence agency does?! Y'know, like they done during WWII, the Cold War etc? Though theyve been over dependent on ELINT for waaaay too long and its caught them out again.



The problem with intelligence gathering is you only know you haven't done it well enough when it all goes wrong.

It's never perfect. There is the old story of the terrorist cell that turned out was run entirely by agents who were gathering evidence on all the other agents, believing them to be terrorists.



jimbo13 said:


> Just remember this next time a progressive wants to lecture you on the importance of masking, No price is ever to high for THEIR priorities.



You're so salty. Wearing a mask is still important, but escaping with your life is also important.

You really should start making reasoned argument instead of all this black and white thinking.



RivenMain said:


> 90% of all news is left wing.



90% of news is based on reality. If you find yourself watching news thinking it's biased, then watch a channel that is openly manipulating and lying to forward the right wing agenda. You'll be happier, if less educated about reality.



DoubleDate said:


> The refugee crisis is on the incompetent administration of Biden.



No, the crisis was inevitable. You could blame biden for the timing, except he delayed it. Under Trump it would have happened sooner as he set the date to pull out in june.

No matter how much it hurts for you to admit it under Trump, it would have happened the same.

The constant protest that it's biden's fault, is 100% proof of your delusion.



DoubleDate said:


> He had months to do things in a good swiftly way.



So he's bad because the troops were removed swiftly, but he would have been good if he'd removed them swiftly.

Magical thinking ftw!



DoubleDate said:


> get out all the weapons that are now in the hands of those extremist,



So Joe Biden is bad because he doesn't have a time machine?

The weapons were in use by the Afghanistan army after the us soldiers left, Trump would have left them there too. It was well known that the Taliban would defeat the Afghanistan Army, it is only the speed that nobody predicted.

You need help, not posting your delusions on a gaming forum.



jimbo13 said:


> Canada has the room and 1/4 of the population, we've had our share it's wouldn't be fair to hog all of the "enrichment" for ourselves.



Not the right climate though, there is plenty of room to build a mosque in every town in the US.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 18, 2021)

Ignore Panda posting about the dumbass Fuentes he still mad Biden is failure anyway to actual info now

Weird. The president told me afghans were pitiful cowards who lacked the will to fight.
Demonstration in Jalalabad in support of Afghan; clashes between Taliban and protestors reported.https://t.co/X9saJP8G3S— Koustuv 🇮🇳 🧭 (@srdmk01) August 18, 2021


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Ignore Panda posting about the dumbass Fuentes he still mad Biden is failure anyway to actual info now
> 
> Weird. The president told me afghans were pitiful cowards who lacked the will to fight.
> https://twitter.com/srdmk01/status/1427922780327084035


yes Regular Afghans ... Afghan military Surrendered not the the people..
As New Reports are saying The Taliban were making  deals with Providences for Takeovers as soon as they Signed the Agreement with Trump.  Meaning Trumps agreement has the opposite effect of "controlling " the Taliban 

edit:: did you even look at the Video... its just people on the street celebrating...no Context or distinguished actions .... I think you got Trolled?


Valwinz said:


> the dumbass Fuentes


2nd.. The Fact you were *Spam Tweeting Fuentes Garbage in the Past *makes you looks like a bigger joke of a tool


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

smf said:


> The problem with intelligence gathering is you only know you haven't done it well enough when it all goes wrong.
> 
> It's never perfect. There is the old story of the terrorist cell that turned out was run entirely by agents who were gathering evidence on all the other agents, believing them to be terrorists.
> 
> ...



Excuses and more excuses, how bad can you defend a man who made a colossal failure to leave Afghanistan? He was looking for credit, to show the world that he could do it BETTER than Trump and his plan blowed up his nose, it failed.

Like Biden you lot still deflect the incompetency. There was no time machine needed, he didn't need to wait so long close to September to make him look good for the 20th anniversary of the attacks in New York.

And you know what is so sad? The extremist closed the airport in Kabul with a lot of westerners in it. The moment a video of a westerner appears being killed we will be back to 2001, more troops will be going back and we will have another war that in the first place could've been prevented if Sleepy Joe didn't botched things up.

Again i repeat, he need to take responsibility, to admit he was wrong and look for a solution to this. The clock is ticking for a lot of people trapped there.

Trump DEFNITELY wouldn't NOT left the weapons there! Since it was in his initial withdrawal plan to get out all the weapons and machinery, is that so hard to understand? After May 2021 Biden had 2 and half month to LEAVE yet he waited almost close to September.

You can say but yeah 20 years, there was a good plan, the citizens could've been evacuated, weapons out and soldiers out. The US would have a very different image than it has now.

Its funny you are telling me to get help yet you are defending a man who left its people to die, oh the irony. You're lucky that you don't have any family member there, the desesperation and horror of so many young girls.

Still no answer about Kamala Harris. Why is your president avoiding questions? They are getting grilled everywhere for a good reason.

Lets see what you will say when China close in onto Taiwan, another upcoming mess.


"So he's bad because the troops were removed swiftly, but he would have been good if he'd removed them swiftly"

You and the other lot must be really joking, really i cant just say how pointless that statement is. Isn't that the whole why the world is grilling Bidens administration, that he would be not in this cluster mess if he did the withdrawal in a good way? Cant tell if you and the other poster are taking this seriously.

You are commenting: no matter what, it would happened under Trump. NO it wouldn't! The extremist feared him, they would've NEVER done what they did if he was in charge.

4 years went by and no one single extremist that tried to do something, that says a lot. No single soldier died there the moment he started look for a solution to get out, NOT a single one!

The USA is the laughing stock of the world, China is mocking the US. How much you try to paint Biden good the point stands that he made a colossal mistake.

Trump DID have a talk with one of those morons extremist leaders and said if you touch one of our own i will be coming after you. They knew not to mess with him.

How hard you want it to accept it, Biden administration is weak and the whole world knows it.

Why did it work for Trump 4 years? Now you are getting more immigrants from the Southern borders being taken to different cities in the US. A flight full with immigrants has landen yesterday night in NY, and there will me more coming. THAT wouldn't have happened with Trump!

And to add to it, people from the other side of the border are shooting at the borders patrol. Kamala was suppossed to find a way to solve this, well not going good at all.

Under Trump, gas was 1,87 and now its ABOVE 5 dollars.

Trump gave the order to take out Soleimani, what would've stopped him to bomb the extremist? Nothing. They knew he was someone not to play with.

What is Biden doing? Hiding to avoid questions. He needs to come up with a plan or the extremist will start killing westerners, that will be really really bad.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 18, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Excuses and more excuses, how bad can you defend a man who made a colossal failure to leave Afghanistan? He was looking for credit, to show the world that he could do it BETTER than Trump and his plan blowed up his nose, it failed.
> 
> Like Biden you lot still deflect the incompetency. There was no time machine needed, he didn't need to wait so long close to September to make him look good for the 20th anniversary of the attacks in New York.
> 
> ...


I guess you don't follow rules


jimbo13 said:


> If you would stop distracting/derailing from the Biden administrations humanitarian disaster that would be great, thanks.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Lol lol guess that talking point advances quicker than thought..  so your arugement is that “*look at Afghanistan, Biden is so Bad, he abandoned them and now he’s allowing equipment and the people to get captured/killed.. but we should only get back the equipment.. fuck those people that we pretend to care about ( that was for show, we really don’t care, we just wanted to make Biden look bad)” *
> Wow you guys really are 1-2-3s, as you care bout a m16 rifles more then your fellow man . WWJD


Let me do a Lacius format reply quick:
1. Like it's pointed out before, Biden himself said the sitting president should take responsibility for any crisis that happens during his term, so I'm just applying his own rhetoric on him.
2. We should've gotten our own damn equipment long before actually pulling out so the bad guys wouldn't take it and, you know, take over a damn nation.
3. I never said that *I* cared about the people over there. What's happening over there is bad, but we shouldn't have even been there in the first place, and if we had to go there, it should've been only for a year or two to just to get Osama Bin Laden and destroy the Taliban for starting all this shit, 9/11, instead of dicking around for 20 years, doing next to nothing. And they never wanted to learn how to defend their own country, but they let the Taliban take over, then all the men want to flee, leaving behind all the women and children, and want to come here. Like, why the fuck should we take these type of people? Let your country get over run then, well, run? As well as abandoning your families, your wives (because most of them likely have multiple) and your kids? Over there I guess the saying, instead of "Women and children first", is, "Men first, women and children can go fuck themselves."


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

djpannda said:


> I guess you don't follow rules



And that proved point number 2 in my messages. You lot pick what its incovenient for your awesome replies and deflect most of the portion of the replies.

But ok surely. I do believe that this will not be Bidens only failure. Time will tell.


----------



## Valwinz (Aug 18, 2021)

The Taliban is all over social media eating ice cream, riding go karts, and throwing dance parties while the President hides away.  Sort of surreal really.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

Welps, how things are going im wondering if we ever will reach those 3 years without any more casualties.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Taiwan-force-Biden-abandoned-Afghanistan.html

Bidens Afghanistan's action will affect mostly the citizens. If China does invade Taiwan nothing will happen, US will do nothing. China sees this a big opportunity.

Im afraid what happened in Afghanistan will open Pandora's box and it will be like domino stones, one after one we will be falling.


----------



## gene0915 (Aug 18, 2021)

Hey @Lacius and @djpannda and all you other liberal fools..... 

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-americans-still-afghanistan-taliban-violence

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3268717/taliban-crush-gay-men-death-jihadis-afghanistan-sharia-law/

Look at the things the Taliban are doing! So my big question is...... what are you doing to pressure Twitter into banning the Taliban from their platform? Unless you're OK with the Taliban killing gays and murdering innocent civilians and you want to make sure they have a right to freedom of speech? Just wondering.............. I'm willing to bet your replies will be along the lines of..."I don't support Twitter allowing the Taliban to post on their platform but it's a free country and they are allowed to ban or not ban whoever they want."

PS Maybe before you reply, you better quickly go back and start erasing/editing all your comments about how it was OK for Trump to be banned from all social media platforms because he was spreading hate. Or will I look at your post history and spot messages about how everyone should be free to post whatever they want on social media and banning Trump was a violation of his rights and he should be reinstated on all platforms?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 18, 2021)

gene0915 said:


> Hey @Lacius and @djpannda and all you other liberal fools.....
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...-americans-still-afghanistan-taliban-violence
> 
> ...


If anybody is violating Twitter's terms, they should be penalized.


----------



## gene0915 (Aug 18, 2021)

Lacius said:


> If anybody is violating Twitter's terms, they should be penalized.



HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. I -KNOW- you were laughing when you typed that!

Here's another for ya: https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/taliban-leader-was-freed-from-guantanamo-in-2014-swap-by-obama/

........that's gotta sting, eh sport?


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 18, 2021)

gene0915 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. I -KNOW- you were laughing when you typed that!
> 
> Here's another for ya: https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/taliban-leader-was-freed-from-guantanamo-in-2014-swap-by-obama/
> 
> ........that's gotta sting, eh sport?



Why? First, nobody is married to Obama like right wingers are to Trump. Second, he isn't in office anymore anyways. Third, it doesn't really change anything going on today, but those sorts of things happened in other administration's too, and Fourth  the right started this futile romp that got tons of people killed for nothing and thus still squarely earn that ire. Sorry, comrade.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2021)

this dumpster fire of a thread still ongoing? Well, guess time for me to add on.

1. Bush should of never went to Afghanistan in the first place
2. Obama and Trump should of pulled out when they got the chance.
3. Biden made the correct choice.
4. given the fact that we were there for littearly 20 years, and the taliban took over in a mere 7 days, proves that we weren't there to establish a functioning government or help Afghanistan. There would of been infrastructure built in place to help them.
No the reason we went to war over there was for profit, and nothing else. For military contractors to collect cash, for manufactures of war to get paid.





nintendo19 said:


> So how much more of this are we going to see, that show how bad this administration screwed this up?


There was no possible way to make it any better, the pretenses it started on was false from the very beginning.



Bush, Obama, and Trump are all complicit in being in a war for profit sake, for having troops wasting their time over there and some lives. Over a pointless, (well not pointless if you count money) reason.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Who was responsible for the withdrawal? Biden and his administration.


and waste more time there? more time? How many years does it need? 30? 50? 100? No. Especially since us going there in the first place was unjustified in the first place.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Why? First, nobody is married to Obama like right wingers are to Trump. Second, he isn't in office anymore anyways. Third, it doesn't really change anything going on today, but those sorts of things happened in other administration's too, and Fourth  the right started this futile romp that got tons of people killed for nothing and thus still squarely earn that ire. Sorry, comrade.


Wow if he's angry over the five Taliban Obama freed in exchange for one American, nobody tell him about the five thousand Taliban Trump freed without getting anything in return.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Opinion: there was no possibly way to make it any better.


if Biden continued, and we assume he is relected (since generally most presidents do end up getting two terms) that would be 28 years, we would still be in there. Even more time being there. FFS my entire life time we've been there, over a war that is pointless outside of profit motive and being a imperialist fuck twat.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> That's not the point.  It is obvious with this administration if they screwed up the withdrawal then yes they would screw up whatever was done. (if we stayed longer)  They obviously were the wrong ones to be handling this.


No, all the previous administrations fucked up. It's obvious none of them planned any infrastructure if they wanted change. Infrastructure doesn't take 20 years. especially the richest nation in the goddamn world. If any of the previous ones did anything, it wouldn't have taken less than 7 days for it to be a loss. Biden's not the issue here. We should of never been there in the first place.


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## Xzi (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> That's not the point.  It is obvious with this administration if they screwed up the withdrawal then yes they would screw up whatever was done. (if we stayed longer)  They obviously were the wrong ones to be handling this.


How many times does it need to be repeated?  The country fell so quickly to the Taliban because the Afghan government/military did not stand up for itself.  You're delusional if you think they would've acted any differently for any American president/administration.


----------



## Deleted User (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Biden and this administrations utter failure at this withdrawal has nothing to do with other administrations.
> 
> 
> Now there seems to be more and more evidence the level of failure at this by this administration is monumental.


Alright. How many years has Biden been president? Perhaps you don't grapple with why Biden isn't the problem.
Biden's been president for less than a year.
Trump had 4 years, 4 years to make changes in afghanistan.
Obama had 8 years, to make changes in afghanistan.
Bush had 8 years to make changes in afghanistan.
Those previous 3, Bush, Obama, and Trump. Should of have in place infrastructure that was working so we could pull out.
But they didn't, and it became obvious why, profit. There's a lot of oil in the middle east. There's a lot of military contractors who do love getting paid from the government. There was about double the amount of military contractors than US military members.
I don't know what made Biden pull out, but it's the right move. We've wasted waay to much fucking time, and that time was genuinely wasted. Biden wouldn't be able to fix that wasted time, no amount of changes would fix it.

We were there for profit, not to fix anything. Money, over people.



and putting more time in? is not worth it. It's just digging a sunk cost fallacy even further.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



nintendo19 said:


> That's an opinion regardless of how you put it. There is already direct evidence this administration completely disregarded


https://www.alternet.org/2021/08/trump-taliban/
meanwhile you had trump release taliban members


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## Dakitten (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Biden and this administrations utter failure at this withdrawal has nothing to do with other administrations.
> 
> That is the whole point of this thread from the title and is still as accurate as when it was started.
> 
> ...


What is this evidence exactly? Aside from a promise from the last president that he had it in hand so long as he stayed in power, as he totes did.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 18, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Like you want to have a conversation about this haha.  Not even going to try,  I have already posted at least one link today.
> 
> You just ignore reality and attempt to re-direct to some new straw man.  I have yet to see one of you what 3 or 4 admit what a complete failure this administration made of this withdrawal.  Which was the point of this thread.   I don't believe at this point any of you few posting for Biden are capable of any objectiveness.  Most of the world was able to see that easily.  I don't see other world leaders complaining about Trump now, it's about Biden and this administration.
> 
> I also get the impression you all have a thing for Trump or something because even though the point of this is how bad this administration did in withdrawal, you keep trying to talk about Trump.


You're the one who claimed Biden canceled or changed things that lead to tragedy, which indicates the former president had some plan that would have resulted in a better departure. Considering how poorly he's handled everything else, I'd say my doubts are justified... but if you have evidence, by all means, I would love to see it! It could be relevant in the future if nothing else!


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## Valwinz (Aug 18, 2021)

"That was so yesterday George.  Oh boo hoo people falling from the sky.  Come on man."
Joe Biden dismisses concerns over images and videos of Afghans falling thousands of feet to their deaths trying to escape Taliban rule in Afghanistan: “That was four days ago, five days ago.” pic.twitter.com/AIDFvGZMb4— Townhall.com (@townhallcom) August 18, 2021


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## DoubleDate (Aug 18, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> "That was so yesterday George.  Oh boo hoo people falling from the sky.  Come on man."
> https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1428100689692090371



I cannot really believe and fathom that he did say that, im still letten sinking it in that this POTUS said something like that, its like something out of a fiction movie. He really really needs to go out of the WH.


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## izy (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> So how much more of this are we going to see, that show how bad this administration screwed this up?
> 
> 
> Joe Biden’s State Department moved to cancel a critical State Department program aimed at providing swift and safe evacuations of Americans out of crisis zones just months prior to the fall of Kabul, The National Pulse can exclusively reveal.
> ...


interesting when you read the wiki about the the editor in chief of national pulse

"*Raheem Kassam* (born 1 August 1986)[1] is a conservative British political activist, former editor-in-chief of _Breitbart News_ London, and former chief adviser to former UK Independence Party (UKIP) leader Nigel Farage.[2] He has been described as far-right,[3][4][5] racist, homophobic and right-wing[6] by several media publications. Kassam formerly ran in the party's November 2016 leadership election before dropping out of the race on 31 October 2016.[7] He is the former global editor-in-chief of _Human Events_ and most recently became the editor-in-chief of _The National Pulse_.[8]"

"In December 2019, Kassam became editor-in-chief of The National Pulse, an American news and conspiracy website on the political right."


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## Valwinz (Aug 19, 2021)

A dictator 
A barrage of shouted questions from @WhiteHouse reporters ignored by @POTUS as he departs the room. pic.twitter.com/aQgz2FIuuV— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) August 18, 2021


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## jimbo13 (Aug 19, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> A dictator
> https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1428096462580293638




Dictators are actually taking questions from the press, what a sad joke.

This disaster is what happens when you have a weakling in leadership.

*Taliban takes questions in first press conference after Biden ran from reporters at his*


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## silien3 (Aug 19, 2021)

those who are in favor to take off soldiers and supporting biden you are filthy and hypocritical you are favorable to the massacre and murdered people there what a shame abduction of the American troops should have been intelligently not condemned people to death alone the money interested biden removing the troops at once means stopping the financial pit for the mobilization of troops and aid to the country (whether it is help or not it costs the money)
to Trump point you out of owes all his bullshit but Biden you justify his acts even the most loathsome
For the moment, at the military level, what I remember is that President Trump has prevented North Korea from working on nuclear bombs at leisure and Biden president allowed a massacre in afghanisant
Trump might not have done better to see worse I have no idea but look for excuses in Biden and still say but Trump no his work is not so if Biden is the sole responsible he could have thought before acting but no his wanted the worship of the americans and reduce the costs therefore tied to money and more

following this debacle I add that north korea and other country could feel bigger and try many things that could lead to the third world war but it remains a guess

sorry for the difficulty of understanding I use google translate


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## ZeroFX (Aug 19, 2021)

kuso jiji


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## Valwinz (Aug 19, 2021)

Joe Biden’s State Dept Halted A Trump-Era ‘Crisis Response’ Plan Aimed At Avoiding Benghazi-Style Evacuations Just MONTHS Before Taliban Takeover.
The latest MUDD NEWS FEED ! https://t.co/wtZY3u221t Thanks to @katherinemiller @DaniaPeriodista @mattyglesias— JOHN E. MUDD (@MUDDLAW) August 18, 2021


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

The Taliban won this one fair and square - by paying off anyone who would've threatened their advance. They didn't need a magical Sun Tzu strategy - they literally went door to door and either bribed or threatened everybody until they accepted them as the rightful authority in the region, they've been doing that for the last 20 years, what'd people think would happen?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epn...-threatened-their-way-to-power-in-afghanistan

While the coalition troops were busy dropping bombs on terrorists, the Taliban was selling rights to rare earth metal mining to China and Russia, and they've made stacks of money from that and bribery. It's painfully obvious where they're getting their funding from.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/18/business/afghanistan-lithium-rare-earths-mining/index.html

Now, quick math. The war in Afghanistan cost a grand total of 2 trillion dollars. The population of Afghanistan is somewhere around 38 million.

$2 trillion / 38 million = $52631.57

So, instead of all this fighting, the government could've gone door to door 20 years ago and could've given every single citizen of Afghanistan 52 grand - do you think the country would've been more or less stable? I'm just asking questions, since it seems that the coalition is just dropping exploding money, and losing.


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## PityOnU (Aug 19, 2021)

I'm not sure that what is happening in Afghanistan is the fault of any specific administration. There's a lot of historical context as to why the USA went into the region in the first place that is difficult to summarize in a single outrage-inducing headline. There are similar complexities and nuances involved with how the Taliban have reclaimed the region so quickly.

I think what this really does demonstrate is the failure of USA policy to actually promote any lasting change in the region despite having had a significant military and (let's face it) governmental presence there for the past 20 years. All the effort and money doesn't seem to have made much of a difference at all if, when left to their own devices, the local forces capitulate in less than 2 weeks. Whether we want to admit it or not, something like this was set to happen all along.

It is my expectation that the other powers in the region will end up stepping up to the plate following the USA's departure in order to enforce some amount of stability in the region, as it will be in their own self interest.

It would be nice to see the spending which was previously set aside to fund this drawn out conflict taken and instead used to back domestic projects, as the USA has enough of its own problems right now.


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## jimbo13 (Aug 19, 2021)

Not parody: The chief of field operations in Afghanistan for the United Nations’ children’s agency (UNICEF) said the organization is “quite optimistic” about working with the Taliban on issues like girls’ education.


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## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> The Taliban won this one fair and square - by paying off anyone who would've threatened their advance. They didn't need a magical Sun Tzu strategy - they literally went door to door and either bribed or threatened everybody until they accepted them as the rightful authority in the region, they've been doing that for the last 20 years, what'd people think would happen?
> 
> https://www.vice.com/en/article/epn...-threatened-their-way-to-power-in-afghanistan
> 
> ...


Sums it up pretty well, though they forgot Halliburton and a couple others:


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Sums it up pretty well, though they forgot Halliburton and a couple others:
> 
> View attachment 273446


Hey, I'm not going to blame private companies stepping in and fulfilling the orders of a government with more money than sense. Good for them. When the big man wants to give you money, you take it. If the big man is trying to take it away, you run.


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## SG854 (Aug 19, 2021)

America You're Fired - Jesus Christ


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## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Hey, I'm not going to blame private companies stepping in and fulfilling the orders of a government with more money than sense. Good for them. When the big man wants to give you money, you take it. If the big man is trying to take it away, you run.


Lol, as if it was all just a happy little accident for them and not a deliberate method of money laundering.  Cheney's probably got Halliburton's logo branded on one of his ass cheeks.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Lol, as if it was all just a happy little accident for them and not a deliberate method of money laundering.  Cheney's probably got Halliburton's logo branded on one of his ass cheeks.


Oh yeah, it's the Republicans that are at fault. Let's conveniently forget that Lloyd Austin, Biden's personal pick for Secretary of Defense, was on the board of Raytheon until his nomination and retired with a sizeable farewell basket.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-defense-idUSKBN29F0EO

Don't pin this on Cheney, they're all making money off of this, that's besides the point. 

Again, if the government wants to convert their regular money into exploding money, you do just that. I don't see a reason not to - somebody's going to do it, may as well be you. Corporations are not meant to hold the government accountable - the voting population is supposed to do that.


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## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Oh yeah, it's the Republicans that are at fault.


I mean...yeah.  The Bush administration started two wars without any clear objective or timetable.  Weapons manufacturers, private mercenary groups, and oil companies were always meant to be the only beneficiaries.

Hell they even had the gall to declare "mission accomplished" over a decade before we finally got the fuck out.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I mean...yeah.  The Bush administration started two wars without any clear objective or timetable.  Weapons manufacturers, private mercenary groups, and oil companies were always meant to be the only beneficiaries.


Until Trump, there hasn't been a single U.S. President that *didn't* start a new large-scale military conflict during their term since Jimmy Carter was in charge. Trump was the first, and possibly last.


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## Costello (Aug 19, 2021)

this joke thread has been renamed & Valwin has received a warn for disrespecting the rules
a bunch of his posts have been deleted too

https://gbatemp.net/threads/disclaimer-read-this-before-posting.493895/
https://gbatemp.net/threads/announcement-concerning-thread-titles.589800/

@Valwin 
GBAtemp is not your propaganda playground, go spam your pro-Trump rhetoric elsewhere.

Last warning, next one gets you a suspension


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## Valwinz (Aug 19, 2021)

Literally, everything I posted here is facts I guess Biden was made to look too bad and we can have that.
Facts are not propaganda Costello.
Biden is the president FACT Biden Altered the withdrawal FACT
So he is to blame whats why he is in the title

Meanwhile Lacius, Panda can sperg out all the pro-Biden propaganda literally posting lies i guess that fine


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## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Until Trump, there hasn't been a single U.S. President that *didn't* start a new large-scale military conflict during their term since Jimmy Carter was in charge. Trump was the first, and possibly last.


He was itching to start a war with Iran and even continued to ask about his authorization to do so after he lost the election.  Starting a new war during his first term while we were still in Afghanistan and Iraq would've been electoral suicide, even Trump had enough sense to realize that.  Had he been reelected, all bets would've been off, and we would've gone into Iran a month after leaving Afghanistan (at most).



Costello said:


> this joke thread has been renamed & Valwin has received a warn for disrespecting the rules
> a bunch of his posts have been deleted too
> 
> https://gbatemp.net/threads/disclaimer-read-this-before-posting.493895/
> ...


I was wondering when that new thread naming rule was actually going to start being enforced.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> He was itching to start a war with Iran and even continued to ask about his authorization to do so after he lost the election.  Starting a new war during his first term while we were still in Afghanistan and Iraq would've been electoral suicide, even Trump had enough sense to realize that.  Had he been reelected, all bets would've been off, and we would've gone into Iran a month after leaving Afghanistan (at most).


Coulda woulda. If you have any suggestions where I might procure a crystal ball to predict the future like you do, I'm happy to go on a road trip and buy a magical device like that. Until I can verify this bold claim with a supernatural glass bauble, I'm correct - itching or no itching. That's of course not to say that Biden will necessarily buy a new boat to wipe the shame of sinking the old boat, but who knows - the electorate looooves a war time president, statistically speaking.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> He was itching to start a war with Iran and even continued to ask about his authorization to do so after he lost the election.  Starting a new war during his first term while we were still in Afghanistan and Iraq would've been electoral suicide, even Trump had enough sense to realize that.  Had he been reelected, all bets would've been off, and we would've gone into Iran a month after leaving Afghanistan (at most).
> 
> 
> I was wondering when that new thread naming rule was actually going to start being enforced.


In fairness, I've reported several thread names in the world news subforum before, and they were promptly changed to my exact suggestions.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Valwinz said:


> Literally, everything I posted here is facts I guess Biden was made to look too bad and we can have that.
> Facts are not propaganda Costello.
> Biden is the president FACT Biden Altered the withdrawal FACT
> So he is to blame whats why he is in the title
> ...


Could you please tell me a specific thing I said that was a lie?


----------



## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Coulda woulda. If you have any suggestions where I might procure a crystal ball to predict the future like you do, I'm happy to go on a road trip and buy a magical device like that.


Trump's a basic bitch, predicting his future actions based on his past ones is easy.  He was super submissive to Netanyahu, the Saudi royals, and Putin, and all three would love nothing more than to send the US military into a proxy war with Iran, each for their own reasons.



Foxi4 said:


> the electorate looooves a war time president, statistically speaking.


Historically speaking, you mean.  When even neocons have mostly lost their appetite for starting new wars, that's when you know we've involved ourselves in one too many Vietnam repeats.


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## Costello (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> I was wondering when that new thread naming rule was actually going to start being enforced.


it is actively enforced, do you see another thread that requires enforcing? 
if so please report it


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Trump's a basic bitch, predicting his future actions based on his past ones is easy.  He was super submissive to Netanyahu, the Saudi royals, and Putin, and all three would love nothing more than to send the US military into a proxy war with Iran, each for their own reasons.
> 
> Historically speaking, you mean.  When even neocons have mostly lost their appetite for starting new wars, that's when you know we've involved ourselves in one too many Vietnam repeats.


He was doing precisely the opposite of what previous administrations were doing - using honey instead of vinegar. Whether that's a worthwhile endeavour or not remains to be tested considering we only tried that for 4 years. 4 years of relative peace, mind, but hey.


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## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Costello said:


> it is actively enforced, do you see another thread that requires enforcing?
> if so please report it


Admittedly I hadn't actually visited the subforum overview in a while, I just kept seeing new Valwinz/Jimbo threads pop up in the 'recent content' sidebar that obviously weren't following the new naming conventions.  Seems like everything's sorted for the moment.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> He was doing precisely the opposite of what previous administrations were doing - using honey instead of vinegar. Whether that's a worthwhile endeavour or not remains to be tested considering we only tried that for 4 years. 4 years of relative peace, mind, but hey.


"Peace" my ass, the Trump administration made no effort whatsoever to avoid civilian casualties in the Middle East, and back in the US he was encouraging police brutality throughout his entire term.  Not to mention how much time he spent on Twitter as a keyboard warrior in the asinine culture wars.  Here's where I'd typically speculate about him being a foreign agent/asset whose sole purpose was to weaken and divide America as much as possible, but at this point, we no longer need to speculate about that, do we?


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 19, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> The withdrawal was Biden's decision and a complete failure, I can agree it may have not met a subjective standard of Neutrality but it was hardly unreasonable enough to warrant that degree of hostility. Valwinz may post often but his content isn't any where outside of the norm of partisanship of what others post.


By all means, comrade, do share some examples. We're all waiting ~


----------



## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> "Peace" my ass, the Trump administration made no effort whatsoever to avoid civilian casualties in the Middle East, and back in the US he was encouraging police brutality throughout his entire term.  Not to mention how much time he spent on Twitter as a keyboard warrior in the asinine culture wars.  Here's where I'd typically speculate about him being a foreign agent/asset whose sole purpose was to weaken and divide America as much as possible, but at this point, we no longer need to speculate about that, do we?


Considering the fact that you manufactured that conclusion by making Olympic-level logical leaps we kinda do, but in all fairness, I have no interest in doing so.


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## Costello (Aug 19, 2021)

Valwin and Jimbo13 have been suspended for further & repeated violations of the rules


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## Costello (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Someone managed to get  the title changed to this thread into something not even reflecting the original point of the OP?
> 
> I can understand the original title was probably not the most eloquent but to change its meaning entirely, Isn't that a form of censorship?
> 
> ...


Pay attention, this keeps getting posted:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/announcement-concerning-thread-titles.589800/
https://gbatemp.net/threads/disclaimer-read-this-before-posting.493895/


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## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

I find it kinda a hypocrisy that people cannot say what are in their minds regarding the whole situation. Looks like people need to praise Biden or you get a warning and told ro keep your Trump messages out of here. I guess that the people in here no matter how hard Biden make a cluster colossal mess and keeps failing the ones in here would gladly accept it like its nothing.

I understand that posting many twitter messages may be kind of an offend to others, but seems like that in here its is talk about Biden or pack it and leave. I guess that how it is, i understand. I just pray that Biden just make the best decisions for the country and the world because i really really trully dont want to see people get hurt by his wrong making decisions.


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## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Looks like people need to praise Biden or you get a warning


...That's one way to tell on yourself for not reading either of the threads linked by Costello.  The rules are the rules no matter which political figures you choose to deify or demonize.


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## Costello (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I find it kinda a hypocrisy that people cannot say what are in their minds regarding the whole situation. Looks like people need to praise Biden or you get a warning and told ro keep your Trump messages out of here. I guess that the people in here no matter how hard Biden make a cluster colossal mess and keeps failing the ones in here would gladly accept it like its nothing.
> 
> I understand that posting many twitter messages may be kind of an offend to others, but seems like that in here its is talk about Biden or pack it and leave. I guess that how it is, i understand. I just pray that Biden just make the best decisions for the country and the world because i really really trully dont want to see people get hurt by his wrong making decisions.


This place is for civil discussions. There's no room for insults, defamation, false news, etc. Which is what some of the suspended users have been doing.
We need safeguards to prevent this place from turning into propaganda boards for either side.
You can absolutely post what's on your mind as long as you respect those rules. Just look at all the threads in this forum and tell me again you can't post your opinion? We are extremely lax in the content we allow (this thread is still open, have you noticed?) but there's got to be rules.
We can't force you to be fair and biased because pretty much nobody is, but we can abide by our rules and try to keep this place as civil as possible. Troublemakers are not welcome and will be ejected.

If you think this is one-sided and pro-left, you're dead wrong. For example, we've done the same with Xzi's blatantly pro-left threads not long ago.


----------



## PityOnU (Aug 19, 2021)

Good on you, mods.

I am a member of a handful of other forums, and there seems to be a pattern of them all sliding downhill into toxic, politically fuelled messes like this over the past year or so. Just as was done here now, most of them have had to put in place rules/restrictions to get things back in line.

I do not envy your position - by doing this, you fall right into line with the "censorship" narrative that is being thrown around a lot lately. But at the same time, thank you very much for taking the steps that are necessary to keep things in order. Seriously. Stuff like this has sucked all joy out of this site for me since it always comes up to the top of the "recent posts" list.

I recognize that I am very liberally biased, but I will also say that many of the issues we are facing nowadays are very nuanced, and that there is opportunity for awesome and serious discussion for solutions from all viewpoints. But that doesn't give anyone the right to make personal attacks, be angry, hateful, and agressive, or just be, in general, a toxic dickhead. If you're an asshole, it won't matter if you're right, no one will want you around. Learn to present your viewpoints in a respectful and non-inflammatory manner, and we will all benefit from it.

Seriously though, I am so sick of this shit. So glad to start seeing it getting the banhammer. Thanks again mods.


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## SG854 (Aug 19, 2021)

Valwinz what have you done


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## RAHelllord (Aug 19, 2021)

Always glad to see the removal of people who are allergic to reason and critical thinking and instead worship twitter and youtube as reliable news sources.

There's plenty to criticize with the current administration but what those two did was just sad.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 19, 2021)

Well, it's a good thing the mods aren't biased or anything.



Costello said:


> This place is for civil discussions. There's no room for insults, defamation, false news, etc. Which is what some of the suspended users have been doing.
> We need safeguards to prevent this place from turning into propaganda boards for either side.
> You can absolutely post what's on your mind as long as you respect those rules. Just look at all the threads in this forum and tell me again you can't post your opinion? We are extremely lax in the content we allow (this thread is still open, have you noticed?) but there's got to be rules.
> We can't force you to be fair and biased because pretty much nobody is, but we can abide by our rules and try to keep this place as civil as possible. Troublemakers are not welcome and will be ejected.
> ...


Either you haven't read some of the posts of the other side due to ignoring them or not caring or because if it's not reported you can't be bothered or be everywhere at once. And let's be real, you expect people to be civil and respectful when it comes to politics? Really? The two things people will argue to the literal death on their views point: Politics and religion. I don't care how non-partisan one claims to be, you can always never have a civil discussion when it comes to these two topics. It's like throwing a match in a room full of gun power, spilt gasoline, and dynamite and expecting nothing to go off.


----------



## subcon959 (Aug 19, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Well, it's a good thing the mods aren't biased or anything.
> 
> 
> Either you haven't read some of the posts of the other side due to ignoring them or not caring or because if it's not reported you can't be bothered or be everywhere at once. And let's be real, you expect people to be civil and respectful when it comes to politics? Really? The two things people will argue to the literal death on their views point: Politics and religion. I don't care how non-partisan one claims to be, you can always never have a civil discussion when it comes to these two topics. It's like throwing a match in a room full of gun power, spilt gasoline, and dynamite and expecting nothing to go off.


Maybe you can't but there are plenty of people who can, and do, have civilised discussions on pretty much any topic.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 19, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Maybe you can't but there are plenty of people who can, and do, have civilised discussions on pretty much any topic.


In general we're perfectly happy with anyone holding any position as long as said position isn't in violation of our code of conduct (this usually implies discrimination based on inmate characteristics, health or disability etc.) - both sides are welcome as long as there are no hostilities. A cheeky joke now and then is perfectly acceptable, but the posts, particularly the OP's, have to fulfill four major conditions:

They have to be truthfully labelled, so no spin zone allowed
If they're aimed at presenting an issue in a discussion, they have to be unbiased. This happened there at that time is an easy format. Personal opinion can be attached below the main body, but there has to be a clear delineation between fact and opinion
If you are presenting a fact and portraying it as such, it has to be supported by a source link - educational institutions, medical establishments, newspapers and media sites are acceptable, to name a few. If you declare something as fact, but cannot support it, you've effectively said nothing, so backing up your claims makes for a better discussion
They have to be polite and within the boundaries of our ToS, which means no trolling, no derogatory terms, no spam
These rules are very simple and give everyone plenty of breathing room. Any post that doesn't follow them should be reported on sight so that our staff can discuss how to proceed. Keep in mind that not every report will always go your way - we're a free speech loving community and we often make concessions for posts that perhaps might be walking the line between acceptable and unacceptable conduct if they're clearly a joke, for instance. Just don't make it a habit - my personal rule is "everybody gets one slip-up", take any verbal warnings seriously because you'll only get one of those.

I hope that illuminates the issue a little bit. Every mod is different, we're people too, so some of us might react to certain things differently than others, but we're usually in agreement on how those rules apply, and we do our best to apply them fairly.


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## RAHelllord (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> I agree we should be able to all have civilized discussions.
> 
> I get the impression he is suggesting there is a perceived double standard.  I myself believe I have witnessed it here in this thread and others.
> 
> ...



The perceived double standard, in this thread, comes from the weird quirk that the thread was made with a sensationalized headline and then just beat that horse with equally sensationalized twitter messages without nuance while the "other side" was busy debunking everything by providing desperately needed context, nuance, and actual news.

Someone screaming at the top of their lungs that their least favorite president is solely responsible for 20 years of fuck ups because he was made to pull out the rusty knives previous presidents have stabbed into Afghanistan, then trying to back that up with demonstrably wrong twitter messages is neither "fair" nor "civil" by any stretch of the definition.


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## Dakitten (Aug 19, 2021)

gene0915 said:


> *snip*


As Lacius has said several times before,  those who violate Twitter's ToS should be banned. There is no debate here. *Snip*


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## KingVamp (Aug 19, 2021)

For ones that like to blame msm often for anyone going against their narrative, they sure like to post Twitter a lot.  

Some people admitting that they don't actual care and going as far as to praise the Taliban (which isn't even "America First" in any sense), it is hard to believe that they are arguing in good faith.


----------



## teamlocust (Aug 19, 2021)

The usa lost in Vietnam and now Afghanistan and please don't remind me of Iraq.. wmds.. lol.. American tax payer money going down the drain.


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## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

I dont agree with how some mods are "reviewing" this place. It seems like someone make a report and then the mods goes doesnt even care to read the other messages to make a good judgement. Some of the persons here say rules are rules yet the people going againt Biden are grilled and they need to shut up or else get a warning or a possible suspension.

I do see the difference. If i call correctly there were some here going on personal attack spree mode, a few messages back one of the Biden defenders said things let we say that are not civilized, and yet the mods doesnt even flip about that.

Its seems clear that this place is a Biden only place, if you mention anything about Trump then probably you will get reported. Shame actaually, because if you are looking at the news you see how Biden doesn't even care about the whole thing. He even said that even if Trump didn't make a deal he wouldve done the same thing what happened the last days. Shame on him, lots of people will die and people here are defending his actions. A 14  year old girl was killed who had dreams to live a normal life and be free from the tiranny at the hand of those extremist. Shame on Biden and his failure of administration. He need to resign or fire a lot and restart his whole administration. God help us the next 3 years.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I dont agree with how some mods are "reviewing" this place. It seems like someone make a report and then the mods goes doesnt even care to read the other messages to make a good judgement. Some of the persons here say rules are rules yet the people going againt Biden are grilled and they need to shut up or else get a warning or a possible suspension.
> 
> I do see the difference. If i call correctly there were some here going on personal attack spree mode, a few messages back one of the Biden defenders said things let we say that are not civilized, and yet the mods doesnt even flip about that.
> 
> Its seems clear that this place is a Biden only place, if you mention anything about Trump then probably you will get reporter. Shame actaually, because if you are looking at the news you see how Biden doesn't even care about the whole thing. He even said even if Trump did make a deal he wouldve done the same thing what happened the last days. Shame on him, lots of people will die and people here are defending his actions. A 14  year old girl was killed who had dreams ro live a normal life and be free from the tiranny at the hand of those extremist. Shame on Biden and his failure of administration. He need to resign or fire a a lot and restart his whole administration. God help us the next 3 years.


This virtue signaling is disgusting. A 14 year old girl in a country you don't live in dies, and that is sad, but 14 year old girls die here all the time from preventable causes, such as lack of shelter and food, sex trafficking and drug exposure, and good old fashioned desperation and suicide. The United States does not produce democracy panacea like a mythical beast, and our presence does not guarantee betterment for a region. If you want to see changes in the region, it has to be done via a unified international community, unless you want for the country to start colonization again.


----------



## LinkmstrYT (Aug 19, 2021)

Imagine trying to guilt trip people and still blame things only on Biden and his administration when worst things have happened during past Presidents' terms and no one bats an eye to them or made a big of a deal.

It's almost like they blame Biden for everything because they just don't like him.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> This virtue signaling is disgusting. A 14 year old girl in a country you don't live in dies, and that is sad, but 14 year old girls die here all the time from preventable causes, such as lack of shelter and food, sex trafficking and drug exposure, and good old fashioned desperation and suicide. The United States does not produce democracy panacea like a mythical beast, and our presence does not guarantee betterment for a region. If you want to see changes in the region, it has to be done via a unified international community, unless you want for the country to start colonization again.



And care to explain why that 14 year old girl died? Easy to say for you because it's not your kid.

That girl died because of the incompetency of the Biden administration. What about the 10,000 westerners trapped there? Are you going to comment that "10,000" Westerners are trapped here and die?

He COULD'VE prevented all of this, yet he chose to do this with no plan and leave people at their own mercy.

Easy for all of you to say safe in your countries.

Every country has their own things, but there no moments where they have to make a choice because babaric extremist are killing and turning a whole country into a tiranny. If you dont say what they want you get killed, is that what you want for them? Dont you want for them to have a free choice? To choose what they want to do? Here people have that freedom, you can do what yuu want without living in fear. So who is here disgusting?

Im not saying at ALL that the USA needed to stay there, we all agree that leaving was a good thing. Its how Biden did it and now he is acting like he dont care, even when people are falling to their deaths from a plane " Yeah it was 4 days a go"

If it was Trump that did that all of this, you would be saying impeach, remove him, everyone would be angry for his blood. Im not saying either that he was the best president, like i said im not a fan of him but HE  did care for the safety of the citizens.

Of course people die, but not by old fashioned extremist who are forcing you to do their will or die. Even if you demonstrate there you will be killed. Which western country kills you for demonstrating? Your comparission is not in anys sense comparable.

If you think that what happened is right, go to Kabul, see with your own eyes how those people are in fear of their lives. But i guess you prefer to stay in your comfy home and enjoy what you have without anyone telling you what to do.

Im really curious what you will say next when China start invading Taiwan and the USA will there useless doing nothing.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> I dont agree with how some mods are "reviewing" this place. It seems like someone make a report and then the mods goes doesnt even care to read the other messages to make a good judgement. Some of the persons here say rules are rules yet the people going againt Biden are grilled and they need to shut up or else get a warning or a possible suspension.
> 
> I do see the difference. If i call correctly there were some here going on personal attack spree mode, a few messages back one of the Biden defenders said things let we say that are not civilized, and yet the mods doesnt even flip about that.
> 
> Its seems clear that this place is a Biden only place, if you mention anything about Trump then probably you will get reporter. Shame actaually, because if you are looking at the news you see how Biden doesn't even care about the whole thing. He even said even if Trump did make a deal he wouldve done the same thing what happened the last days. Shame on him, lots of people will die and people here are defending his actions. A 14  year old girl was killed who had dreams ro live a normal life and be free from the tiranny at the hand of those extremist. Shame on Biden and his failure of administration. He need to resign or fire a a lot and restart his whole administration. God help us the next 3 years.


the Issue is your argument and narrative  is not based on "Fact" but Political "Feelings", 
Yes the Withdraw from Afghanistan was a ClusteF%K, but to Blame only and Completely a President that Inherited the Situation only 8 month ago is short sighted.
First this Afghanistan has been mismanaged for 20 year under 4 different administration ( during that time Countless of Politicians and Corporations milk it for all its worth.)
But the Hastily made Exit Strategy by the Last Administration was Lacking any real explanation of how to exit. 
In fact, many considered that Agreement heavy-favored to the Taliban ( as it not only Ensured Complete American WithDraw, but since it did not include The Afghan govern. it was seen as the Sign That the Taliban was real in power.) including the fact that Taliban were invited to several High rating meetings, 5000+ troops released. This action Ennobled the Taliban 
As soon as Feb 2020 after signing the deal, The reports State the Taliban started making deal with Afghan Military and local governments to take it over as soon as the US left
The negotiated surrenders to the Taliban following the Doha deal,
“They saw that document as the end,” the officer said, referring to the majority of Afghans aligned with the government. “The day the deal was signed we saw the change. Everyone was just looking out for himself. It was like [the United States] left us to fail.”
This is a Major Military Intelligence Error, From not only Trump's Admin but also Biden's. As the FEB 2020 Agreement started the Taliban's Rise, it should of never happened.
The Doha Agreement had no details about how the exit would happen (other then limited Troops in timeframes) There was no real exit strategy after that either as The Military did not lay out plans before or after 1/20/21.
The fall of Afghanistain was going to happen no Matter who was President because the Taliban was already "buying" back their Country Since Feb 2020.
Biden Mess up by not Delaying it further but the issue was the Doha was so Public, it was held over his head by the International Community. not only was the Taliban Criticizing not following the Agreement but RUSSIA also Pressured the US to Fulfill the agreement
*Taliban visit Moscow, voice hope US will honor peace deal
*
*Russia Says U.S. Troop Pullout from Afghanistan Risks 'Escalation*
President Biden Decided to pull the Bandaid but that is a Shared Fault of Both Administrations and the Military itself. As it seemed to be only the Americans that didn't Realized that Taliban already made "Back Door " deals to take over the Country without a shot fired.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> the Issue is your argument and narrative  is not based on "Fact" but Political "Feelings",
> Yes the Withdraw from Afghanistan was a ClusteF%K, but to Blame only and Completely a President that Inherited the Situation only 8 month ago is short sighted.
> First this Afghanistan has been mismanaged for 20 year under 4 different administration ( during that time Countless of Politicians and Corporations milk it for all its worth.)
> But the Hastily made Exit Strategy by the Last Administration was Lacking any real explanation of how to exit.
> ...



"Political feelings, no facts"

Kamala Harris nowhere to be seen, Biden avoiding questions to be asked. The press conference he gave was about the vaccines nothing about about Afghanistan and you say its personal political feelings? Heck even Bush adressed the nation, and he started all this mess.

If its about fact, why does Biden run? Have you seen the trainweck of interview he gave yesterday? He said a month ago there will be no chaos in Afghanistan, and yesterday he said yeah uh leaving without chaos was not possible. He said Afghanistan soldiers didn't fight, have you read about witnesses commenting how the extremist are killing captured soldiers? So many lies. Are you also forgetting Biden ignored all the warnings from intelligence that told him not to do what he did? Another thing the extremist said leave or we will take Afghanistan in 2 weeks, Biden said unlikely, so what about that? All what i said has been said on the news. Even former Pentagon official intelligence who were interviewed have said the same thing, Biden should've not went out like that, and for that people are trapped there. The moment the USA leaves those people are doomed.

You can point and say what you want, it could've been prevented if Biden did have a good plan  instead abandoning a whole country and leaving USA weapons worth of 1 billion dollar.

And the other people saying yeah they died there and not here. Lets be real, do you honestly think that those extremist will not send sleepers cells to the USA and Europe now Afghanistan is a cluster mess? Dont cry when another 911 happens. Before you say its not fact, i didnt say that but people who knows how the middle east work.

But yeah looks like no matter what is said, as long as it doesn't affect you, you all couldnt care less until its too late.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> And care to explain why that 14 year old girl died? Easy to say for you because it's not your kid.
> 
> That girl died because of the incompetency of the Biden administration. What about the 10,000 westerners trapped there? Are you going to comment that "10,000" Westerners are trapped here and die?


Sure Thats Horrible When ever kids die is horrible_ but over all, it appearing the Taliban is allowing the US to bring out most people without major issues ( beside small Skirmishes).
The Causalities of the Afghan withdraw are still low, there nowhere near COVID death rates.
 by your reaction about a 14 year old Afghan Girl, I can tell your outraged by the hundreds of American Children's death needless from COVID. 
*'Save our babies': As another Mississippi child dies of COVID-19, communities beg for help*
Infact most American would prioritize immediate Crisis at home


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## silien3 (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Sure Thats Horrible When ever kids die is horrible_ but over all, it appearing the Taliban is allowing the US to bring out most people without major issues ( beside small Skirmishes).
> The Causalities of the Afghan withdraw are still low, there nowhere near COVID death rates.
> by your reaction about a 14 year old Afghan Girl, I can tell your outraged by the hundreds of American Children's death needless from COVID.
> *'Save our babies': As another Mississippi child dies of COVID-19, communities beg for help*
> Infact most American would prioritize immediate Crisis at home


Biden could have said we postpone any decision related to Afghanistan after having managed the covid its proves that it is the worst of all the presidents already elected until now everyone uses the covid and postponed to later date of decisions or to increase the price of the product but he decides to do everything without taking the time and think about how to do things well compare to the rest of the world

finally it remains my perception of things


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> "Political feelings, no facts"
> 
> The press conference he gave was about the vaccines nothing about about Afghanistan and you say its personal political feelings?


Yes Personal Feels ,in case you did not know the Pentagon has provided SEVERAL Conference about Afghanistan all this week, I for one would of Military to provide direct info, rather then a Politician. But you still Demand Biden Personally give updates because Why?


DoubleDate said:


> "Political feelings, no facts"
> He said a month ago there will be no chaos in Afghanistan, and yesterday he said yeah uh leaving without chaos was not possible. He said Afghanistan soldiers didn't fight, have you read about witnesses commenting how the extremist are killing captured soldiers? So many lies. Are you also forgetting Biden ignored all the warnings from intelligence that told him not to do what he did? .


*Afghanistan’s military collapse: Illicit deals and mass desertions*
Great Write of on how  US MILITARY intelligence under Both Admin Failed to Realize that Taliban did "back Room" deals to take over as soon as FEB 2020 agreement.  

Biden Mess up by not Delaying it further but the issue was the Doha was so Public, it was held over his head by the International Community. not only was the Taliban Criticizing not following the Agreement but RUSSIA also Pressured the US to Fulfill the agreement
*Taliban visit Moscow, voice hope US will honor peace deal*

*Russia Says U.S. Troop Pullout from Afghanistan Risks 'Escalation*



DoubleDate said:


> "Political feelings, no facts"
> 
> instead abandoning a whole country and leaving USA weapons worth of 1 billion dollar


 majority of Afghans aligned with the government. “The day the deal was signed we saw the change. Everyone was just looking out for himself. It was like [the United States] left us to fail.”
Afghan Government Stated US Abandon them the Moment The Agreement was signed.
as of the 1 billow dollar of Weapon- You do know that was Afghan Military property not USA. (USA sold/donated) but the Ownership of Equipment  was Afghans, US can just "take Back".


DoubleDate said:


> And the other people saying yeah they died there and not here. Lets be real, do you honestly think that those extremist will not send sleepers cells to the USA and Europe now Afghanistan is a cluster mess? Dont cry when another 911 happens. Before you say its not fact, i didnt say that but people who knows how the middle east work.
> 
> But yeah looks like no matter what is said, as long as it doesn't affect you, you all couldnt care less until its too late.


Honest, I, as Im sure a lot of people are, more worried about Domestic Extremist at this point. As Domestic Extremist were able to do something the international Extremist have not ...attack the Capitol.


----------



## izy (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Why I am I not surprised there is nothing about the actual content of the article?


why should i quote a hevily biased article and right wing website that is literally confirmed to be that ontop of being heavily involved in conspiracy theories


when its literal articles include https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/dems-intro-bill-banning-unvaccinated-americans-from-airplane/

https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/health-dept-using-ccp-tiktok-to-encourage-vaccination/

https://thenationalpulse.com/analys...re-being-beaten-in-broad-daylight-in-america/

https://thenationalpulse.com/analys...urrection-act-now-president-trump-should-too/


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## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> Yes Personal Feels ,in case you did not know the Pentagon has provided SEVERAL Conference about Afghanistan all this week, I for one would of Military to provide direct info, rather then a Politician. But you still Demand Biden Personally give updates because Why?
> 
> *Afghanistan’s military collapse: Illicit deals and mass desertions*
> Great Write of on how  US MILITARY intelligence under Both Admin Failed to Realize that Taliban did "back Room" deals to take over as soon as FEB 2020 agreement.
> ...



Again with the personal feelings.... mate people are dying there, dont you get that? We are talking about human lifes who are now in fear that they will be killed because Biden couldn't have a properly retreat. You said they are letting people leave, that is lie. There are video's of the extremist killing people, its circulating now, but i guess that is not a fact to you because it doesn't affect you.

Domestic extremist? Yea you have a few lunatics but now its going to be a organized organization, we're talking about groups who's goal is to take as many lifes as they can out. And yes they were a few Pentagon press conferences, and guess what they said? WE  dont HAVE the capacity to bring all people home, meaning its a race against time until they will take hostages, is that too "political feelings"

Biden will go into history as the worst president in its existence, and i thought that one would be Bush. He makes Carter look like a good scouter boy.


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Domestic extremist? Yea you have a few lunatics but now its going to be a organized organization, we're talking about groups who's goal is to take as many lifes as they can out.



You say that as This is literally happening in the Capitol as We speak 
* Active bomb threat outside Library of Congress, US Capitol Police at scene "*he had a bomb and what appeared, the officer said, appeared to be a detonator in the man’s hand" unconfirmed reports on MSNBC state Possible connection with a Facebook live Stream.


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## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

There we go, deflecting mode, doesn't surprise me at all.

Im talking about EXTREMIST , Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, groups that have been in the shadows since the fall of the extremist in 2001, will regroup, there is a highly chance that they will return. And no it's not me who said that, but people who KNOWS how the middle east works. Former people who have worked with US intelligence, they are pointing out that Afghanistan will become a brewing ground for extremist. Wait until the press and USA military leaves, what do you think that will happen to all the poor souls there? You probably dont care as long as it Isn't around you.

We did have many treaths from low smal lonewolfs for years, but can you compare them to a group like Al Qaeda? Dont you see the difference?

Borders are open, if you dont believe me go Google it. Last few days many IMIGRANTS from the borders have been flown to different parts of the USA. You dont see the danger Biden has created, i cant believe that all of you can justify this. All that i have posted above have been on the news before you comment " Personal feelings"

Its a matter of time for the people trapped there.

This couldve been very different if he didn't ignore all of the advice given to him (Biden)


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> There we go, deflecting mode, doesn't surprise me at all.
> 
> Im talking about EXTREMIST , Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, groups that have been in the shadows since the fall of the extremist in 2001, will regroup, they is a highly chance that they will return. And no it's not me who said that, but people who KNOWS how the middle east works. Former people who have worked with US intelligence, they are pointing out that Afghanistan will become a brewing ground for extremist. Wait until the press and USA military leaves, what do you think that will happen to all the poor souls there? You probably dont care as long as you it Isn't around you.
> 
> ...


oh hey I think you forget to TAG ME....

what I don't understand why are you soo worried bout the Taliban extremist.. When Trump's Admin and the Talibans signed the Doha Agreement on Feb 2020. It Insured that the Taliban agreed they would not attack or plan attacks on American soil. I mean Thats the whole Reason the Administration signed it. So I would not worry bout it
 I am also Taking bout Extremist too...local Extremist that is possibly attacking the Capitol this VERY moment in 8/19/21
"Law enforcement officials have identified the suspect as a white man from North Carolina who has made anti-government statements,"
Oh, The Border  Scare tactic ...ok.....sorry that Im more worried bout the Crazy White guy Trying to Blow up D.C ...then the Hispanic immigrant  Trying to escape a bad situation of his home Country, that is going to have no free time because he is probably going to have to work 2 different jobs under the table because he is being paid less then minimum wage.


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## silien3 (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> oh hey I think you forget to TAG ME....
> 
> what I don't understand why are you soo worried bout the Taliban extremist.. When Trump's Admin and the Talibans signed the Doha Agreement on Feb 2020. It Insured that the Taliban agreed they would not attack or plan attacks on American soil. I mean Thats the whole Reason the Administration signed it. So I would not worry bout it
> I am also Taking bout Extremist too...local Extremist that is possibly attacking the Capitol this VERY moment in 8/19/21
> ...


So it's okay that people get killed as long as this is not your home and I add its known its extremists its obeys without anything in exchange or without fear behind no but seriously and local terrorists are often radicalized by people from their countries or those already radicalized so your local terrorists will also increase as a result of his 

I don't mind but this is propaganda to minimize the deaths over there your story for me


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

silien3 said:


> So it's okay that people get killed as long as this is not your home and I add its known its extremists its obeys without anything in exchange or without fear behind no but seriously and local terrorists are often radicalized by people from their countries or those already radicalized so your local terrorists will also increase as a result of his
> 
> I don't mind but this is propaganda to minimize the deaths over there your story for me


.. that does not make sense ?…that’s why we have the agreement …otherwise the Trump’s admin deal with the Taliban for full troop withdrawal would of been a horrible deal and should of never taken place .


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## LinkmstrYT (Aug 19, 2021)

Of all things to source and link, you chose Fox News. lol


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## silien3 (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> .. that does not make sense ?…that’s why we have the agreement …otherwise the Trump’s admin deal with the Taliban for full troop withdrawal would of been a horrible deal and should of never taken place .


i don't care about trump he may have had an idea in mind i don't know anything here his biden who did, the extremists are not known to prevent wars and to say made love not war he should have reflected correctly because his choices can create a new world war so what america can be spared and the rest of the world can burn minimize you way too much its like telling north korea to go on and drop your atomic bomb

its what I perceive at least


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/afghanistan-withdrawal-biden-bunker-strategy-clears-schedule
> 
> Afghanistan withdrawal: Biden continues bunker strategy after widely panned ABC interview
> The president has not taken any other questions from the press
> ...


 Ins case you Somehow  did know know the USA has an official Afghan briefing today I have attached a link 
*Pentagon Officials Hank Taylor & John Kirby Press Conference Transcript: Afghanistan Update 8/19*


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pentagon-british-paratroopers-afghanistan-kabul-airport
> 
> Pentagon pressed on why British paratroopers leaving Kabul airport to rescue citizens but Americans aren't
> Maj. Gen/ Hank Taylor said 'our main mission continues to be to secure' the Kabul airport
> ...


oh ok so, the argument of the US governemn not giving Press release and hide ....Changed?. ok Glad we are in agreement


----------



## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

OH quick up that THE Domestic Extremist that almost Blew up the D.C  today is custody
*Capitol news - live: MAGA bomb suspect surrenders after hours-long standoff with police and rant about Biden *
"Suspect was upset about result of presidential election, wife says"
Thats a Reminder that Extremist can happen anywhere in the world. Placing Complete blame on one Region of the World is dangerous and Some might say based on Racial discrimination.


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## kevin corms (Aug 19, 2021)

Biden did the right thing, the media will try to make him pay.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



djpannda said:


> OH quick up that THE Domestic Extremist that almost Blew up the D.C  today is custody
> *Capitol news - live: MAGA bomb suspect surrenders after hours-long standoff with police and rant about Biden *
> "Suspect was upset about result of presidential election, wife says"
> Thats a Reminder that Extremist can happen anywhere in the world. Placing Complete blame on one Region of the World is dangerous and Some might say based on Racial discrimination.


Who knows, they are also known to stage things such as this to shape the conversation. Even if they didn't, Im not going to point to a single crazy person as having more meaning than a single crazy person did something crazy. Context is that there are over 350 million  people in the country.


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## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

kevin corms said:


> Biden did the right thing, the media will try to make him pay.
> 
> --------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
> 
> ...


the issue is that the uptick of these "kinds" of situations has Blown up recently  (mask attack, school board meetings, asian attacks, Captiols ). .. but have to admit in the Middle of a convo of Domestic Extremist VS Foreign. That situation I think proved a point.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> OH quick up that THE Domestic Extremist that almost Blew up the D.C  today is custody
> *Capitol news - live: MAGA bomb suspect surrenders after hours-long standoff with police and rant about Biden *
> "Suspect was upset about result of presidential election, wife says"
> Thats a Reminder that Extremist can happen anywhere in the world. Placing Complete blame on one Region of the World is dangerous and Some might say based on Racial discrimination.


 
"Extremist" Big fat lie. He isnt an extremist but a person who is very very unhappy and displeased of the whole Biden administration. You are comparing one single person to a whole GROUP Of people with malicious intentions of harming, killing people at no cost.

Your only concern now is about a person in the States who was very unhappy with Joe Biden, instead of all the people who at this very moment are at their worst moment of their lifes, fearing that they will be killed. Seriously, is that all you care? Not a single thing or emphaty for the people there who are in inminent danger of losing their lifes because ice cream Joe botched this up? Wait until then Alqaeda shows up in US soil and start attacking. Lets see if its the "same" as one single person.

Still no answer from you lot as to why Kamala Harris is avoiding the media like the plague and Biden walking away from any press conferences. The WH scrapped any conferences with Joe Biden regarding the Afghanistan fiasco, in other words he WILL not give any answers to any press, doesnt say that much? I dont recall Trump EVER doing that, even when he was attacked by the MEDIA.

So to sume it up, you have a president in a sinking ship that doesn't know where to to go and is leaving its citizen at their own fate.

There are video's circulating on the internet of the extremist executing people, but i guess you dont care. There is one of a police commander that got captured in Herat being blind folded and killed, nothing to say about that? Probably not, as long it doesnt affect you.


----------



## djpannda (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> "Extremist" Big fat lie. He isnt an extremist but a person who is very very unhappy and displeased of the whole Biden administration.


The moment you stated that the Guy who wanted to BLOW UP D.C because of Political views ..is *"not a terrorist/ Domestic extremist"* . tell me all I need to know about you....Later


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

djpannda said:


> The moment you stated that the Guy who wanted to BLOW UP D.C because of Political views ..is *"not a terrorist/ Domestic extremist"* . tell me all I need to know about you....Later



The person does not have the same view as the extremist. You are comparing 2 DIFFERENT kind of people. Of course i do not agree with what that moron wanted to do, but people do things as they are desperated. Im not saying it has lines of extreme violence. The difference of the 2 is Al Qaeda doesnt give a flying rat about any political thing. They plan an attack, kill as many people as they can. This morons idea wasn't the sanest one, but do you think that a terrorist would film himself on Facebook planning out an attack and live streaming his plan? Because that is EXACTLY what the person in the truck was doing, so again, is that a terrorist? Or an idiot who wanted to make a point to what he thought that was ok in his head?

We are not talking about extremist at the same level of the 911 hijackers, seasoned people who go to camps to train to bring maximum carnage to western soil. If you cant see the difference then i dont know what you fit to see what is "right"


----------



## izy (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-no-one-being-killed-in-afghanistan-advisers-withdrawal
> 
> *Biden says 'no one's being killed' in Afghanistan, can't 'recall' advisers telling him to delay withdrawal*
> 
> ...


except it wasnt exactly it was close to the worst case scenario they predicted could possible happen
but even then it blew all expectations away


“Intelligence clearly indicated multiple scenarios were possible: one of those was an outright Taliban takeover following a rapid collapse of the Afghan Security Forces and the government,” Milley told reporters at the Pentagon. "*However, the timeframe of a rapid collapse, that was widely estimated and ranged from weeks, months, and even years following our departure*. *There was nothing that I or anybody else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11 days*.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 19, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Hmm a congressman pointing out the continued failure of Biden and this administration.
> 
> https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1428409762811551746?s=20
> 
> View attachment 273516


Isn't that the crazy guy with the skydiving ad where he pretends he's playing battlefield but in real life versus idle antifa folk?


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 19, 2021)

LinkmstrYT said:


> Of all things to source and link, you chose Fox News. lol


Fox news is scummy, as with almost all mainstream news organizations, but, for the time being at least, they're still miles better than CNN and MSNBC.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 19, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Fox news is scummy, as with almost all mainstream news organizations, but, for the time being at least, they're still miles better than CNN and MSNBC.


You should probably give this page a good read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies

Fox News has been shown, among other things, to engage in photo and video manipulation in ways that can only be described as propagandistic. They've also been incredibly unscientific when it comes to their coverage of COVID-19. As far as I'm aware, CNN and MSNBC generally don't do these things.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> You should probably give this page a good read:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies
> 
> Fox News has been shown, among other things, to engage in photo and video manipulation in ways that can only be described as propagandistic. They've also been incredibly unscientific when it comes to their coverage of COVID-19. As far as I'm aware, CNN and MSNBC generally don't do these things.


While I can believe Fox most likely does these things, to say CNN and MSNBC and possible other mainstream news outlets don't the the same thing as well is just being blindingly ignorant of what's going on in the world right now.


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 19, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> While I can believe Fox most likely does these things, to say CNN and MSNBC and possible other mainstream news outlets don't the the same thing as well is just being blindingly ignorant of what's going on in the world right now.


Can you explain how fox is "miles better"?


----------



## Lacius (Aug 19, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> While I can believe Fox most likely does these things, to say CNN and MSNBC and possible other mainstream news outlets don't the the same thing as well is just being blindingly ignorant of what's going on in the world right now.


Source?


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Source?



There are cases where mayor News outlets do those kind of things, CNN has done lots of things that aren't better than the other. I'd rather watch Fox news than watching CNN. What surprises me is how the few last days CNN has changed their tune agains the whole Biden botched withdrawal. At first it was mostly coverage about spreading messages like the extremist were "Peaceful, its weird" And now they are covering parts were it says that Biden DID botch it, surprises me actually, didn't expect to see that on CNN since they were very hard Anti Trump when he was prez.

Here is a link of some mishaps from CNN:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies

Not every news outlets is perfect you know, just saying.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> There are cases where mayor News outlets do those kind of things, CNN has done lots of things that aren't better than the other. I'd rather watch Fox news than watching CNN. What surprises me is how the few last days CNN has changed their tune agains the whole Biden botched withdrawal. At first it was mostly coverage about spreading messages like the extremist were "Peaceful, its weird" And now they are covering parts were it says that Biden DID botch it, surprises me actually, didn't expect to see that on CNN since they were very hard Anti Trump when he was prez.
> 
> Here is a link of some mishaps from CNN:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies
> ...


I never said that anybody was perfect. What I said is that Fox News is apparently guilty of things that other news network like CNN and MSNBC aren't guilty of. Regarding CNN in particular, the Wikipedia page you linked to doesn't include anything like what I mentioned with Fox News.

I don't watch CNN (or any news channel really, since I'm not 60 years old), but they don't appear to be anywhere close to as controversial as Fox News.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Not every news outlets is perfect you know, just saying.


All of the cable TV news outlets can be pretty sensationalist at times, they have to try to retain viewers somehow.  That said, Fox has actually had to argue in court multiple times that 'no reasonable person' would take them seriously, and that their content is for 'entertainment purposes only.'


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

Xzi said:


> All of the cable TV news outlets can be pretty sensationalist at times, they have to try to retain viewers somehow.  That said, Fox has actually had to argue in court multiple times that 'no reasonable person' would take them seriously, and that their content is for 'entertainment purposes only.'



"For entertainment purposes" Sure seeying how the extremist are firing their gun in the air, showing babies handed over to US troops, and former Pentagon employee talking about the situation is "Entertainment"


----------



## Xzi (Aug 19, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> "For entertainment purposes" Sure seeying how the extremist are firing their gun in the air, showing babies handed over to US troops, and former Pentagon employee talking about the situation is "Entertainment"


You'd have to take that up with Fox News, I don't consider their boomer rage porn to be "entertainment" either, but that's how they choose to legally define themselves.


----------



## bonkmaykr (Aug 19, 2021)

why the actual fuck are we talking about american politics on a gaming forum

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 19, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I never said that anybody was perfect. What I said is that Fox News is apparently guilty of things that other news network like CNN and MSNBC aren't guilty of. Regarding CNN in particular, the Wikipedia page you linked to doesn't include anything like what I mentioned with Fox News.
> 
> I don't watch CNN (or any news channel really, since I'm not 60 years old), but they don't appear to be anywhere close to as controversial as Fox News.



"Nowhere close as Fox" Yeah that is why they spend 4 years going after Trump (CNN) ooh puleaase. Im not saying that both dont do controversial things, but you lot people put in here what you want to put.

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/natio...dmitting-network-pushed-anti-trump-propaganda

And, well most mayor news are posted on every news site and that is what i take for granted, what us going on in the world, not cherry picking which network is better and credible. There are 4 News outlets that i watch for confirmation of any big news : CNN website, DailyMail, Fox News and Dutch national news channel. So you are telling me that all the same news that they cover is fake news? Sure ok mate.


----------



## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

Lacius said:


> I never said that anybody was perfect. What I said is that Fox News is apparently guilty of things that other news network like CNN and MSNBC aren't guilty of. Regarding CNN in particular, the Wikipedia page you linked to doesn't include anything like what I mentioned with Fox News.
> 
> I don't watch CNN (or any news channel really, since I'm not 60 years old), but they don't appear to be anywhere close to as controversial as Fox News.


you do not read in my opinion we can see the corruption of cnn by reading the passages of cover of the american presidential election of 2016 and 2020


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

bonkmaykr said:


> why the actual fuck are we talking about american politics on a gaming forum
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Cause this is the politics sub forum?


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> You'd have to take that up with Fox News, I don't consider their boomer rage porn to be "entertainment" either, but that's how they choose to legally define themselves.



"You have to take that to Fox News" You are the one making the accussation not Fox News mate. Im not defending any news outlet but just attacking one news because " It doesnt fit your narrative" isnt something that is fact.


----------



## bonkmaykr (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> Cause this is the politics sub forum?


We have a politics subforum? 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 20, 2021)

bonkmaykr said:


> We have a politics subforum?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk



Yes, if you look at the up top most of the page you can see : World News, Current events & politics"


----------



## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> You are the one making the accussation not Fox News mate.


Wrong, sorry.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/9177...s-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

Carlson isn't the first or only host they've had to make this argument for.  Chris Wallace is the one Fox News anchor that sticks to real news, though obviously even his biases show through occasionally.


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

bonkmaykr said:


> We have a politics subforum?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Well it does say at the top "Current Events & Politics"

Also I love how this fox vs cnn debate is being reframed from the original statement (Fox is miles less corrupt/biased than CNN). If you cant back up the original statement then stop spreading bullshit.


----------



## bonkmaykr (Aug 20, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Yes, if you look at the up top most of the page you can see : World News, Current events & politics"


im on tapatalk lol, can't see that

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> Well it does say at the top "Current Events & Politics"
> 
> Also I love how this fox vs cnn debate is being reframed from the original statement (Fox is miles less corrupt/biased than CNN). If you cant back up the original statement then stop spreading bullshit.


 
My apologies, you are right. Its pointless to debate on that since it doesnt add nothing to what is going on at the moment.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> Well it does say at the top "Current Events & Politics"
> 
> Also I love how this fox vs cnn debate is being reframed from the original statement (Fox is miles less corrupt/biased than CNN). If you cant back up the original statement then stop spreading bullshit.


I could and I should, but I'm tired of debating viciously ignorant people online as I said before and it's more fun to watch people spurge out on others opinions and sometimes plain facts.


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> I could and I should, but I'm tired of debating viciously ignorant people online as I said before and it's more fun to watch people spurge out on others opinions and sometimes plain facts.


Probably shouldnt make statements like that then if you refuse to back them up when asked. The requirement here is showing that CNN is worse than Fox, not simply that they are bad.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> Probably shouldnt make statements like that then if you refuse to back them up when asked. The requirement here is showing that CNN is worse than Fox, not simply that they are bad.


What happens if I don't? I go to gbatemp jail? lol


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> What happens if I don't? I go to gbatemp jail? lol


You slowly start to become Valwinz


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> You slowly start to become Valwinz


Could be worse, I could turn into Lacius


----------



## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> Could be worse, I could turn into Lacius


That would mean actually sourcing your claims with something other than tweets and Youtube videos from alt-right trolls.  In other words, it'd be a massive improvement for you.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 20, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> "Nowhere close as Fox" Yeah that is why they spend 4 years going after Trump (CNN) ooh puleaase. Im not saying that both dont do controversial things, but you lot people put in here what you want to put.
> 
> https://foxbaltimore.com/news/natio...dmitting-network-pushed-anti-trump-propaganda
> 
> And, well most mayor news are posted on every news site and that is what i take for granted, what us going on in the world, not cherry picking which network is better and credible. There are 4 News outlets that i watch for confirmation of any big news : CNN website, DailyMail, Fox News and Dutch national news channel. So you are telling me that all the same news that they cover is fake news? Sure ok mate.


Trump was a rotten president who demonstrably engaged in criminal acts. It isn't bias or propaganda to acknowledge the deplorable things Trump said or did during his tenure, as long as the criticisms are fair.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



silien3 said:


> you do not read in my opinion we can see the corruption of cnn by reading the passages of cover of the american presidential election of 2016 and 2020


I have things to say about the elections (2016 in particular) that are critical of CNN. Again though, they pale in comparison to the propaganda of Fox News.


----------



## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Just because you don't agree with something does not make it bullshit.


I said it was bullshit specifically because when asked multiple times to elaborate he refused.


nintendo19 said:


> CNN is totally biased as so are probably all news orgs.  I thought that was commonly known. Media Bias.
> 
> Who was it that sued CNN, that Covington kid?  When they totally misrepresented what was going on and basically led to the kid getting digitally lynched by America before people knew the whole story?  He sued them and CNN settled with him.
> 
> CNN does sketchy stuff, they also ignore specific news and do not report on it.  Where news stories can take 3 days before you see any mention of it by their network.  And it might only by a very tiny blip compared to other sources.


Moving the goalpost hard. The argument he started was NOT that CNN is biased or does bad things (I never would have argued with that statement). It was that CNN is 'miles worse' than Fox.


----------



## Lacius (Aug 20, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> Just because you don't agree with something does not make it bullshit.


Just because you agree with something doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 20, 2021)

The Biden administration is a disgrace. They were warned about it and he's lying through his teeth about it. He said no one knew and it was unlikely. Bit by bit more information is coming up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9910153/Blinken-warned-month-Kabul-fall-report-claims.html

So shameful. Whole Pentagon needs to be cleansed and put new intelligence who take things seriously. Now we are in a world where the USA has to ask the extremist to "Please" let people through to leave the country. So sad for the poor people there.


----------



## Kurt91 (Aug 20, 2021)

To get back to the original topic and a bit away from "my news source is better than your news source"...

Regardless of when an agreement was made on moving troops out of Afghanistan, it still doesn't change the fact that Biden fucked things up epically and needs to be held accountable for it.

If there was a pre-existing agreement about pulling troops out of Afghanistan, that should have been something brought up to Biden when he first became President and moved into the White House. I'm certain that one of the first things that they do when a new President is sworn in is get him up to speed with at the very least major events and political issues that the President needs to deal with, and since the President is specifically "Commander in Chief", that would obviously include military actions and pull-backs.

So, he's had months to coordinate withdrawing our troops. How hard would it have been to immediately pull back 10% of our troops back in February or March, as well as approach any Afghan citizens who directly aided our military (translators, etc.) as well as the families of any Afghan soldiers, with the offer of citizenship in the United States. (It's common knowledge that the Taliban were known for killing/torturing the families of people who opposed them, this would give as many vulnerable people an out as possible) This offer of citizenship would also include a return trip to Afghanistan if they wished to return when they felt it was fully safe. Beginning this process back at the beginning of the year would have allowed us to get as many vulnerable people out of there in a more comfortable time-frame as possible in a worst-case scenario.

After a month or so of doing this, we pull out about 30% of the remaining troops. The Afghan soldiers would be more confident in their roles without as much US assistance since a majority of them have their families in safe locations and don't have as much to worry about regarding possible Taliban reprisals. (Yes, I'm aware of the purported bribes taking place, but you have to admit that the fear of your families being tortured/killed if you continue to fight back is a damned good deterrent to get you to put your guns down and surrender. A fear that the US soldiers didn't have to carry, as their families were all safe back in the United States.)

Finally, with the deadline for full withdrawal approaching, we finally call back the remnants of our troops. As many vulnerable people as possible are able to escape to safety, allowing the Afghan military and government an easier time keeping things under control without our continued presence. A gradual withdrawal like that also would minimize political blowback if something were to go wrong, given that it's being shown that we're following an actual plan.

You're telling me that Biden, his advisors, and all of the best-and-brightest our government has to offer couldn't even come up with a basic plan like that when a nobody like me can think of something simple like that? Even taking pre-existing agreements into account, there had to be something more they could have done than what they did. So yeah, I still consider fully responsible for the shit-show and deaths/panic going on and he needs to be held accountable. You don't just wait until the literal last minute and tell everybody to pack up and go home in less than a week, against the advise of just about every advisor he has, who SPOILER ALERT!!! are specifically hired to advise the President in that they know what they're doing and if they all scream at you that something is a terrible idea, you probably ought to listen.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

Kurt91 said:


> You're telling me that Biden, his advisors, and all of the best-and-brightest our government has to offer couldn't even come up with a basic plan like that when a nobody like me can think of something simple like that?


The plan was to have the Afghan military, which was built up and trained by US forces over the span of _twenty_ years, cover our withdrawal and presumably hold all of the population centers for years after we got out.  Instead they folded faster than a deck of cards, which no president or administration could have possibly predicted, because the Pentagon was blowing smoke up everybody's asses.

Additionally, Biden had already pushed back Trump's agreed upon withdrawal date by several months.  If he had stuck to it, we would've left May 1st.  What this tells us is that the results would've been the exact same whether we had left ten years later or ten years earlier.  If you're really so desperate to find a single presidential figure to pin the blame on, might I suggest the one who thought it was a good idea to start two wars with no clear objective and no clear timetable.  That same administration declared "mission accomplished" over a decade before we finally got out, too.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> I think we should blame the failed withdrawal on the president that is responsible for the failed withdrawal.


Except getting out was not a mistake.  Going in was.  I'm not going to lambaste Biden for being the one who finally ripped off the band-aid, given that the alternative was sticking around Vietnam v2 indefinitely.



nintendo19 said:


> You can attempt to spin it as hard as you want but Biden is responsible for the failure and even he said the buck stops with him.


Refreshing to have a president who takes responsibility for his actions even when the media is working overtime to spin those actions negatively, isn't it?  That's probably why Biden's worst approval numbers are still better than Trump's best ones.



nintendo19 said:


> This also showed how fractured the president and the VP already are. She want's nothing to do with the bed he made.


I've never cared much for Kamala Harris, and she sure as hell hasn't done anything to endear herself to me after being selected as VP.  She won't even own up to her own draconian record as California's DA.


----------



## kevin corms (Aug 20, 2021)

djpannda said:


> the issue is that the uptick of these "kinds" of situations has Blown up recently  (mask attack, school board meetings, asian attacks, Captiols ). .. but have to admit in the Middle of a convo of Domestic Extremist VS Foreign. That situation I think proved a point.


There is also a bunch of FBI/CIA operations trying to manufacture consent. They used to find young Muslim men and convince them to commit crime so they could "stop" them... now they are working on domestic people. https://apnews.com/article/health-g...rus-pandemic-1acd2e74bdb8878bb78debb24215d8cf

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Lacius said:


> I never said that anybody was perfect. What I said is that Fox News is apparently guilty of things that other news network like CNN and MSNBC aren't guilty of. Regarding CNN in particular, the Wikipedia page you linked to doesn't include anything like what I mentioned with Fox News.
> 
> I don't watch CNN (or any news channel really, since I'm not 60 years old), but they don't appear to be anywhere close to as controversial as Fox News.


That's not true in the least little bit. Only difference is most mainstream news sources all agree with CNN. Even all the fact checking websites try to be easy on CNN, despite their pants on fire lies and misleading bs. For example, Im not a big Trump fan but this was the full interview when he said "very fine people" https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/
He said the below almost immediately after that, CNN kept claiming he never ever said anything like this.. even after he condemned these groups about 20 times publicly. Why does it matter? Well if you convince racists that the president is on their side and the country is being controlled by racists, do you think that is a good thing for anyone?

"So you know what, it’s fine. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."

Reason I bring this up, its so obvious and blatant that its disgusting.

Oh, of course there was also this where many things were admitted. https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

"*HOW CLOSE WE CAME*
There was one last milestone on Podhorzer’s mind: Jan. 6. On the day Congress would meet to tally the electoral count, Trump summoned his supporters to D.C. for a rally.

Much to their surprise, the thousands who answered his call were met by virtually no counterdemonstrators. To preserve safety and ensure they couldn’t be blamed for any mayhem, the activist left was “strenuously discouraging counter activity,” Podhorzer texted me the morning of Jan. 6, with a crossed-fingers emoji."

Doesn't sound like an fbi/cia operation at all does it? CNN and others even made sure to keep planting the seeds of a coup before weirdos were let in and took selfies. Its even more disturbing that people got hurt and it became nothing more than some joke to the reporters and other entertainers manufacturing consent. The time article still has lies in it, but they were so excited about what they pulled off they let a little truth out.


----------



## BitMasterPlus (Aug 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> That would mean actually sourcing your claims with something other than tweets and Youtube videos from alt-right trolls.  In other words, it'd be a massive improvement for you.


You mean being a bitter and delusional moron? Oh yes, improvement indeed.


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 20, 2021)

BitMasterPlus said:


> You mean being a bitter and delusional moron? Oh yes, improvement indeed.



Hi mate, being friendly and kind to you, i understand your fustration and the lack of empathy from some people in here. Its not worth it being in the offensive mode against some individuals in here. They are like Biden, blind and cant see what is going on. Even when presented with proof that Biden administration did knew that Kabul would fall they still deny it. I understand your will,  all who are against Bidens decision are thinking for the wellbeing of the people trapped there at the moment. China is the next one to cause another big wave, every mayor outlets is calling USA weak, even here in the Netherlands every news coverage is saying how bad Biden botched it and the danger that it means to the world now.

In the end, Biden opened Pandora's box and if things dont get resolved it will be not good for Western cities.

The Pentagon has confirmed now that they will not be able to evacuate everyone, flight are flying back empty to western cities. While this is happening the president of Belarus is forcing some refugees behind the back of the EU and USA to cross borders, we dont know what for type refugees those are. Blind people will stay stuck with their heads in the sand until catastrophe hits and will like Biden start pointing fingers at others instead of finding a solution to prevent casualties.


----------



## SyphenFreht (Aug 20, 2021)

I can't wait until the next president comes into office. 

"Joe Smith's been in office for 3 days, and he still hasn't fixed homelessness! Drain the swamp! It's nobody else's fault but his!"

At the end of the day, troops are coming home. Maybe not all at once. Maybe not in the best way possible. Maybe with casualties. Idk how many idiots it takes to stop a war, but evidently we've got a herd here that thinks wars end like a soccer game. Time's up, pat each other on the butt, move on to the next third world country we need to bleed oil dry under the guise of ending terrorism.


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 20, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> Hi mate, being friendly and kind to you, i understand your fustration and the lack of empathy from some people in here. Its not worth it being in the offensive mode against some individuals in here. They are like Biden, blind and cant see what is going on. Even when presented with proof that Biden administration did knew that Kabul would fall they still deny it. I understand your will,  all who are against Bidens decision are thinking for the wellbeing of the people trapped there at the moment. China is the next one to cause another big wave, every mayor outlets is calling USA weak, even here in the Netherlands every news coverage is saying how bad Biden botched it and the danger that it means to the world now.
> 
> In the end, Biden opened Pandora's box and if things dont get resolved it will be not good for Western cities.
> 
> The Pentagon has confirmed now that they will not be able to evacuate everyone, flight are flying back empty to western cities. While this is happening the president of Belarus is forcing some refugees behind the back of the EU and USA to cross borders, we dont know what for type refugees those are. Blind people will stay stuck with their heads in the sand until catastrophe hits and will like Biden start pointing fingers at others instead of finding a solution to prevent casualties.



Have you ever stopped to consider that calling people blind while not listening to them might, in fact, be both offensive and hypocritical? I am curious, to some small extent, what kind of media sources you subscribe to, as I suspect there may be some bias reaffirmation going on.

Biden didn't open Pandora's box, he just closed it. Everything that transpired has been there since the occupation began, and the only way it could have gone differently was to make it a permanent colony. Some level of organization in the withdrawal MAY have reduced casualties, but it also has continually been a place of hostility and casualties as it was occupied. This needs to be a UN issue, if anything.


----------



## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Have you ever stopped to consider that calling people blind while not listening to them might, in fact, be both offensive and hypocritical? I am curious, to some small extent, what kind of media sources you subscribe to, as I suspect there may be some bias reaffirmation going on.
> 
> Biden didn't open Pandora's box, he just closed it. Everything that transpired has been there since the occupation began, and the only way it could have gone differently was to make it a permanent colony. Some level of organization in the withdrawal MAY have reduced casualties, but it also has continually been a place of hostility and casualties as it was occupied. This needs to be a UN issue, if anything.


its comes from a French site I translated so that you can see that its more sheep but assassins, terrorists or xenophobes and those in favor of the 3rd world war at the level of those who support biden 

here are the most striking parts

If anti-American terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda come to re-establish themselves in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, the United States retains "an over-the-horizon capability to eliminate them," the president argued. American, referring to missiles and other long-range strikes.

and

Joe Biden did not rule out Wednesday having to keep US troops at Kabul airport beyond the August 31 deadline if all US nationals still in the country are not evacuated by then.
"We will determine when the time comes who is still there," the US president told ABC. "If there are still American citizens, we will stay to bring them out," he added, without specifying the American intentions regarding the Afghans who have failed to reach Kabul airport from here. the.

shameful and inhuman to president



Spoiler: to show you that its not coming out of me I put the french site below



https://www.dhnet.be/actu/monde/des...icains-d-afghanistan-611fdd889978e245ca7896c7

https://www.bfmtv.com/international...existentiel-aux-talibans_AD-202108200027.html


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## Sicklyboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Have you ever stopped to consider that calling people blind while not listening to them might, in fact, be both offensive and hypocritical? I am curious, to some small extent, what kind of media sources you subscribe to, as I suspect there may be some bias reaffirmation going on.
> 
> Biden didn't open Pandora's box, he just closed it. Everything that transpired has been there since the occupation began, and the only way it could have gone differently was to make it a permanent colony. Some level of organization in the withdrawal MAY have reduced casualties, but it also has continually been a place of hostility and casualties as it was occupied. This needs to be a UN issue, if anything.



All of this boils down to one central point to me - if the US occupation of Afghanistan didn't "fix the problems" after 20 years, what will? How much longer should we stay, another 20? 40 more years? What should we do different for the next five decades we're there?

It's a shit situation and I truthfully don't know how it could have turned out any different, but if someone here has a magic solution I would love to hear it, and I think you'd make a very, very lucrative living working for the government.


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## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> All of this boils down to one central point to me - if the US occupation of Afghanistan didn't "fix the problems" after 20 years, what will? How much longer should we stay, another 20? 40 more years? What should we do different for the next five decades we're there?


Absolutely this, theres some serious sunk cost fallacy going on here. "Well we already sunk in X billions of dollars and lives so if we quit now we are behind. We have to keep going until we are in the green." Thats how people go bankrupt.

Also its funny how people here on the right are calling Biden weak and a disaster for pulling out when that was Trumps plan. So I guess theyre actually calling Trump weak? The comments on the Fox article posted earlier highlight this in hilarious ways, saying that 'Trump was a strong leader, unlike Biden' when Biden is just following Trumps original order. Really shows how the delusional right will hate Biden no matter what he does, even if he literally just follows what Trump says.


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## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

already waiting for the taliban to return home for the winter its will make more people who survive then talk with the other countries at a bloody gathering to get out all those at risk and find out who could take care of the immigrants who will now become illegal immigrants and not diplomatic immigrant because of his certain country will send them back to be killed no means to deal with it fear that its a terrorist ect must stop at a time of the solutions to recover the soldiers and not cause massacres its exists my solution greatly reduced the dead compare to now and I am not a genius so its to exaggerate your propagating to minimize the deaths and the responsibility of biden at a time must stop biden is not trump ses he who is president they could say no i am not trump done otherwise your excuse bogus trump would have signed for gas rooms you would have followed your biden who would have continued his ?

sorry for the english i use google translate


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## Dakitten (Aug 20, 2021)

silien3 said:


> already waiting for the taliban to return home for the winter its will make more people who survive then talk with the other countries at a bloody gathering to get out all those at risk and find out who could take care of the immigrants who will now become illegal immigrants and not diplomatic immigrant because of his certain country will send them back to be killed no means to deal with it fear that its a terrorist ect must stop at a time of the solutions to recover the soldiers and not cause massacres its exists my solution greatly reduced the dead compare to now and I am not a genius so its to exaggerate your propagating to minimize the deaths and the responsibility of biden at a time must stop biden is not trump ses he who is president they could say no i am not trump done otherwise your excuse bogus trump would have signed for gas rooms you would have followed your biden who would have continued his ?
> 
> sorry for the english i use google translate



I am unsure if I am addressing your point properly, so I apologize if I am misrepresenting you... but are you suggesting the US should have moved a fraction of the country's population and a majority of its wealth back to native soil prior to abandoning the husk of the hollowed out country to the same terrorist organization they funded to fight in the first place? Because that, too, is incredibly imperialistic.

I believe in full on open borders because I find private land ownership abhorrent, but getting out is a net positive and the people of the region are sadly going to come to some rather upsetting terms regardless of how long we stay and how many corpses we make. We have no right being there, or governing. Or torturing anybody, since you brought it up.


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## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> I am unsure if I am addressing your point properly, so I apologize if I am misrepresenting you... but are you suggesting the US should have moved a fraction of the country's population and a majority of its wealth back to native soil prior to abandoning the husk of the hollowed out country to the same terrorist organization they funded to fight in the first place? Because that, too, is incredibly imperialistic.
> 
> I believe in full on open borders because I find private land ownership abhorrent, but getting out is a net positive and the people of the region are sadly going to come to some rather upsetting terms regardless of how long we stay and how many corpses we make. We have no right being there, or governing. Or torturing anybody, since you brought it up.


So your logic must go there, we leave and then die without a state of soul and no I was talking about first talking with all the other countries to know you the thing where everyone gathers and remove those at homosexual risk those who have helped coming from Afghanistan ect and removing the troops in winter the taliban goes home for a while holds its allows a lot of survival and everyone is ready to do what it takes the murdered journalists would have survived and would have returned home

and since the taliban would not be there for a while, intelligent people might have had other help better than me but no biden wanted a present and future massacre

add this crisis so that you understand the lack of discussion between countries on the part of biden

Without a Western military presence in Afghanistan, or a cooperative local intelligence service, it will now be much more difficult to identify and intercept al Qaeda activity, especially in remote and rugged areas like Kunar province. .
Elsewhere in the world, al Qaeda affiliates in East and West Africa recruit regularly. They will have benefited from a significant boost in morale thanks to what Al-Qaeda considers a humiliating defeat for the West.


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## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

silien3 said:


> So your logic must go there, we leave and then die without a state of soul and no I was talking about first talking with all the other countries to know you the thing where everyone gathers and remove those at homosexual risk those who have helped coming from afghanizing ect and removing the troops in winter the taliban goes home for a while holds its allows a lot of survival and everyone is ready to do what it takes the murdered journalists would have survived and would have returned home
> 
> and since the taliban would not be there for a while, intelligent people might have had other help better than me but no biden wanted a present and future massacre
> 
> ...


If it was that important to the survival of the west then maybe other countries should have been helping. Im tired of having my country throw away billions of dollars that could go towards better healthcare and schooling on this war while other western nations enjoy those benefits. I know the US has positioned itself as the global police, but that should not be our position and it was stupid for us to take it in the first place. Any step away from that is fine with me. If you want to move against the taliban then fine, maybe France can take a crack at it.


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## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> If it was that important to the survival of the west then maybe other countries should have been helping. Im tired of having my country throw away billions of dollars that could go towards better healthcare and schooling on this war while other western nations enjoy those benefits. I know the US has positioned itself as the global police, but that should not be our position and it was stupid for us to take it in the first place. Any step away from that is fine with me. If you want to move against the taliban then fine, maybe France can take a crack at it.


and the British who are there and die because no discussion was not of the help can be with the method that I said your soldiers would be removed from there so you have to stop your lack of humanity and your phony excuses at a time


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## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

silien3 said:


> and the British who are there and die because no discussion was not of the help can be with the method that I said your soldiers would be removed from there so you have to stop your lack of humanity and your phony excuses at a time


So when the US leaves the country its 'a lack of humanity and phony excuses' even though your own country left Afghanistan 9 years ago and doesnt want to spend its resources and lives helping. Sounds like we arent the selfish ones here. You dont get to complain about us leaving unless you are giving up your nations resources to help.


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## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> So when the US leaves the country its 'a lack of humanity and phony excuses' even though your own country left Afghanistan 9 years ago and doesnt want to spend its resources and lives helping. Sounds like we arent the selfish ones here. You dont get to complain about us leaving unless you are giving up your nations resources to help.


I speak French but I live not in France so not my country anyway perverted what I said shows your lack of humanity I gave a simple method that precisely removes your soldiers and allows everyone to manage the situation so pretend that its a crime to think that more people survive and that your soldiers all come back to safety compare to now yes I am a monster I think of everyone's life and everyone's future shame on me


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## Sicklyboy (Aug 20, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> We care less than the other 1000 countries that don't care and wont be taking them either, Lecture Canadians.
> 
> 
> Just remember this next time a progressive wants to lecture you on the importance of masking, No price is ever to high for THEIR priorities.



Lol.

Just remember this next time a conservative wants to lecture you on fake news, they'll be sure to reference fake news in the process.

Or they'll pull the classic Trump move of "It's just a picture, it's a perfect picture, there was no implication behind it, I just wanted to share the picture, some say it's the best picture I've ever shared, truly beautiful."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...plane-full-afghan-men-shared-2018/8163796002/
https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/turkiye/afganistan-uyruklu-6-bin-846-kacak-gocmen-ulkesine-dondu/1120255


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## Ibcap (Aug 20, 2021)

silien3 said:


> I speak French but I live not in France so not my country anyway


Your profile says France so I was going off of your registered country.


silien3 said:


> perverted what I said shows your lack of humanity I gave a simple method that precisely removes your soldiers and allows everyone to manage the situation so pretend that its a crime to think that more people survive and that your soldiers all come back to safety compare to now yes I am a monster I think of everyone's life and everyone's future shame on me


I didnt see you give a method, but ok lets say you did. Take a step back and realize that none of us understand what was/wasnt communicated with other countries or even what it is like to coordinate events like this. Theres absolutely no way for you to know that your 'method' would work or is viable in the slightest. Honestly I have no idea if Biden did a good or a bad job given the circumstances because this is too complex of an issue for random people without that level of experience to comprehend.


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## silien3 (Aug 20, 2021)

Ibcap said:


> Your profile says France so I was going off of your registered country.
> I didnt see you give a method, but ok lets say you did. Take a step back and realize that none of us understand what was/wasnt communicated with other countries or even what it is like to coordinate events like this. Theres absolutely no way for you to know that your 'method' would work or is viable in the slightest. Honestly I have no idea if Biden did a good or a bad job given the circumstances because this is too complex of an issue for random people without that level of experience to comprehend.


It was in the previous page you may have to jump or google translate has translated incorrectly if its the case, sorry if not from what I know the taliban will go home during the winter so waiting for that moment would have saved those who would be kill before his last come back the taliban left the american soldiers return the other countries see it and do the same and death to avoid certain after the taliban take everything but everyone would have a chance at least and some death as the current journalist would be alive and with their family unless they would stay despite the return of the American soldiers, it would be them who would decide to risk their lives at that time.
added that biden would have been able to require a consensus from Western countries to discuss and see how to make its possible in a short time ect there is a lot of thing and to decide which could be dissected certain would have maybe even better than mine if he had discussed and reflected with the military and the vice president would have been able to help

sorry I hope to make myself understood


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## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> It could have been done in a manner that put less people at risk


All the Republicans are saying this, none of them are elaborating any further.  The military was telling the Biden administration that the Afghan military would have no problem standing up for itself.  Trump had already drawn down our presence to 2500 troops during his administration, which was already too few to continue holding all the population centers of Afghanistan.  Trump also chose to negotiate with the _TALIBAN_, meaning that their takeover upon our exit was an expected outcome for him.  Even now he's singing their praises to anyone who will listen.

The only way we could have possibly avoided all the unnecessary casualties among the Afghan people was to stay out of the country to begin with.  No president or administration would have acted any differently during withdrawal given the information the military was feeding them, least of all Trump.


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## chrisrlink (Aug 20, 2021)

Xzi said:


> All the Republicans are saying this, none of them are elaborating any further.  The military was telling the Biden administration that the Afghan military would have no problem standing up for itself.  Trump had already drawn down our presence to 2500 troops during his administration, which was already too few to continue holding all the population centers of Afghanistan.  Trump also chose to negotiate with the _TALIBAN_, meaning that their takeover upon our exit was an expected outcome for him.  Even now he's singing their praises to anyone who will listen.
> 
> The only way we could have possibly avoided all the unnecessary casualties among the Afghan people was to stay out of the country to begin with.  No president or administration would have acted any differently during withdrawal given the information the military was feeding them, least of all Trump.


@Xzi we should've eliminated bin laden (which the obama admin did) then get the hell out,we should just bolster our defenses here at home cause we still have Russia to contend with too


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## Viri (Aug 20, 2021)

I'm not going to read over this dumpster fire of a thread. 

But my major complaint about the moveout, is that we STILL have American civilians, native translators, and natives that helped the US in Afghanistan, STILL in Afghanistan. Those Americans who aren't part of the military, those native translators and other natives who helped the US, the people who would be fucked hard, if the US moved out, should have been out of Afghanistan back in Fed/March. 


Instead they're freaking out, trying to get a flight out now of Afghanistan, because they know they're FUCKED. I don't care what administration is in charge, they should have had a plan to get these people out months ago. These natives are fucked over, because they helped the US. This will teach other countries to not help the US in the future. Because they'll abandon your ass, the moment they bail out.


The most powerful country in the world, should have had a plan to get these people out, months ago. I do agree we needed to get the fuck out of Afghanistan, but these people should have been out of the country first.


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## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> @Xzi we should've eliminated bin laden (which the obama admin did) then get the hell out,we should just bolster our defenses here at home cause we still have Russia to contend with too


Yep.  I'd take it one step further even and hold the Saudi royals involved with the planning and funding of 9/11 both criminally and civilly liable for those actions.  Just about all of them should be imprisoned for life, and they should have to pay out billions in restitution to the families of 9/11 victims.  Instead they were still free to murder Jamal Khashoggi years later, and they got away with that scot-free too.


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## Xzi (Aug 21, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> But in the end, it's those pictures on the other side of the screen from me, the fact that that, you know, we have this airport secured, but we have no way of getting Americans and our Afghan allies from downtown Kabul or elsewhere in Afghanistan to that airport. And as long as that remains the situation, the president can make any speech he wants, get any interview he wants, it isn't going to make any difference. That's what people are focusing on, that Americans and American allies are unable to get to the airport and get to that hope and freedom on one of those C-17s.


See, that I can agree with.  This doesn't need to remain a problem, the military can send out multiple squads of ten to twenty troops in order to find stranded individuals and escort them back to the airport.  The Taliban are not targeting anyone they know to be American, for fear of retaliation.


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## Darth Meteos (Aug 21, 2021)

It's a tragic way to end the war in Vietnam, but at least it's finally over.


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## Xzi (Aug 21, 2021)

nintendo19 said:


> I hope that remains true for those that are American.  I have read local people (American supporters) have not fared as well in some cases.  Don't know what the state is now, but there were many a day or so ago that did not want to dare to cross the Taliban lines outside the Airport.


Yeah of course they want to reduce/eliminate support for the US among the Afghan people, but if we have American troops escort Afghan allies to the airport, I seriously doubt the Taliban would risk attacking them.  If the goal is to control the entire country ASAP, you don't disrupt your enemy when they're retreating half a world away.  They only want to intimidate and give the impression that they're in charge.


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## DoubleDate (Aug 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yeah of course they want to reduce/eliminate support for the US among the Afghan people, but if we have American troops escort Afghan allies to the airport, I seriously doubt the Taliban would risk attacking them.  If the goal is to control the entire country ASAP, you don't disrupt your enemy when they're retreating half a world away.  They only want to intimidate and give the impression that they're in charge.



I trully hope that you are right and they dont have in their delusional mind to attack any one of them. Im praying from my heart that all of this does end in a way that no bad things follows.

There is a large resistant group forming, they have taken 2 cities from the extremist. A general major and Massoud's son. I hope that it picks momentum and many join them so that people  at least can be freed from those delusional extremist.

Even i haven't heard anything about the soldiers being targeted, the extremist are hitting and slamming US citizens (Or any other). They are even taking their passports and burning them.


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## Hanafuda (Aug 21, 2021)

Hey, 158 operational Backhawks left behind, for the Taliban to use or sell?? Psssh. Just a billion dollars give or take, don't have a cow man.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/meuser-black-hawks-afghanistan-taliban/2021/08/19/id/1032994/


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## gene0915 (Aug 21, 2021)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/biden-falsely-claims-us-doesnt-have-military-presence-syria


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## Xzi (Aug 21, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> Hey, 158 operational Backhawks left behind, for the Taliban to use or sell?? Psssh. Just a billion dollars give or take, don't have a cow man.
> 
> https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/meuser-black-hawks-afghanistan-taliban/2021/08/19/id/1032994/


If there's one thing the US military is good at, it's wasting money.  The good news is that these Blackhawks are _not_ operational in the hands of the Taliban, they don't have the training to fly them or the knowledge necessary to maintain them.  Even the logistics of obtaining the proper fuel are a nightmare.


----------



## Hanafuda (Aug 21, 2021)

Xzi said:


> If there's one thing the US military is good at, it's wasting money.  The good news is that these Blackhawks are _not_ operational in the hands of the Taliban, they don't have the training to fly them or the knowledge necessary to maintain them.  Even the logistics of obtaining the proper fuel are a nightmare.




I'm sure China will be happy to take them off their hands. Just for the neat gizmos, gadgets, and classified info stored on them.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2021)

A quick reminder that this board is for discussion of recent world events, not for sharing memes. Any clowns will be sent to the circus if needs be.


Xzi said:


> If there's one thing the US military is good at, it's wasting money.  The good news is that these Blackhawks are _not_ operational in the hands of the Taliban, they don't have the training to fly them or the knowledge necessary to maintain them.  Even the logistics of obtaining the proper fuel are a nightmare.


In all fairness, they also didn't have the flight training or expertise to fly Boeings, but that didn't stop them from crashing two into the Twin Towers. When you have this many helicopters, you can crash one or two - how hard could it possibly be to fly one compared to any other chopper?


----------



## Dakitten (Aug 23, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> A quick reminder that this board is for discussion of recent world events, not for sharing memes. Any clowns will be sent to the circus if needs be.
> In all fairness, they also didn't have the flight training or expertise to fly Boeings, but that didn't stop them from crashing two into the Twin Towers. When you have this many helicopters, you can crash one or two - how hard could it possibly be to fly one compared to any other chopper?


As an Air Force vet, I can promise that it is extremely complicated and dependent on several individuals beyond the cockpit. Intuitive to fly, but difficult to launch and land.


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## tabzer (Aug 23, 2021)

There is a strong presence of damage control going on here.  Suggesting that giving terrorists weapons is nbd because they are too stupid to utilize them.

Sounds a lot like the voter ID argument.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 23, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> As an Air Force vet, I can promise that it is extremely complicated and dependent on several individuals beyond the cockpit. Intuitive to fly, but difficult to launch and land.


Oh, I can imagine - it's not a toy. My point was that the Taliban has plenty of resources to acquire both the necessary documentation and staff to train pilots. The idea that they're a rag tag band of misfits with no structure or financing is silly - they're loaded and well-organised.


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## Xzi (Aug 23, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> In all fairness, they also didn't have the flight training or expertise to fly Boeings, but that didn't stop them from crashing two into the Twin Towers.


Osama Bin Laden had CIA training, and the hijackers who were supported by Saudi Arabia no doubt had a fair amount of training and resources available to them as well.

On that note however, I am fully back on the "fuck Biden" bandwagon, as some interviews and quotes which I hadn't seen before recently came to my attention.  Biden is of the opinion that the US holds no responsibility for the well-being or safe evacuation of any Afghan citizens, even those who assisted us during our operations there.  He's reiterated this stance multiple times, and very recently had Macron's plea for moral responsibility scrubbed from call logs.  This isn't all that surprising for a neoliberal, but I guess I was just hoping it was a position he had "evolved" on by now.

And before anyone chimes in on the "much better job" Trump would've done, let's not forget he abandoned the Kurds in almost the exact same fashion.  He also wasn't known for his compassion toward immigrants or refugees.  We were only given the illusion of choice on this particular matter; just another example of how deeply flawed the two-party system is and has always been.


----------



## notimp (Aug 23, 2021)

Not sure if I'm wrong on this, havent had an opportunity to reflect on this or lob it over to people, and dont know if thats just me being overly cynical...

But I've heard stuff like this: US translators, helpers and their families account for "several ten-thousands" of people in Afghanistan at this point. Emigration being granted over the last year towards people from the region in the US was below 100. People having reached Kuwait and now Texas via flights is 600, lets maybe double that.

People having reached spain by now was 70, people having reached germany, also well below 100.

Greece has given out a statement that it will be very strict, and push back Afghans at its borders - so larger refugee waves dont reach Europe.

And the "liberal" stand to take currently is exemplified, by a tweet of Usula von der Layen who after visiting the 60 folks in Spain had to say the following:

Moved by the outstanding commitment and extraordinary strength we have witnessed today at the reception hub in Torrejón, Madrid.It is our moral responsibility to help those who arrive in Spain, and those who remained in Afghanistan.My full statement 👉 https://t.co/eOMb4jOdT0 pic.twitter.com/ZfEUr7RuVG— Ursula von der Leyen (@vonderleyen) August 21, 2021


--
And all I get is - US is never moving tens of thousands of people out of country. All political efforts will always be centralized around keeping refugee movements within the general region. Newspapers in my country may produce headline articles about how important it is to take on more people in a situation like that, and dont send back people into country anymore - because its on the brink of a civil war. But no one will even mention the position of Greece which would be the official European policy stance on that matter.

Oh - and here are their education stats: https://wenr.wes.org/2016/09/education-afghanistan

So most of this likely is driven by cost analysis.

So are we talking about the 600 people that reached us per plane, or...


----------



## DoubleDate (Aug 23, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Osama Bin Laden had CIA training, and the hijackers who were supported by Saudi Arabia no doubt had a fair amount of training and resources available to them as well.
> 
> On that note however, I am fully back on the "fuck Biden" bandwagon, as some interviews and quotes which I hadn't seen before recently came to my attention.  Biden is of the opinion that the US holds no responsibility for the well-being or safe evacuation of any Afghan citizens, even those who assisted us during our operations there.  He's reiterated this stance multiple times, and very recently had Macron's plea for moral responsibility scrubbed from call logs.  This isn't all that surprising for a neoliberal, but I guess I was just hoping it was a position he had "evolved" on by now.
> 
> And before anyone chimes in on the "much better job" Trump would've done, let's not forget he abandoned the Kurds in almost the exact same fashion.  He also wasn't known for his compassion toward immigrants or refugees.  We were only given the illusion of choice on this particular matter; just another example of how deeply flawed the two-party system is and has always been.



I agree. Trump leaving the Kurds on their own was such a betrayal as what Biden did. The differences between the 2 is that the Kurds were more organized and were already fighting the enemy. Biden saying that Afghans were cowards, is so wrong. I saw yesterday a very recent documentairy where the extremist ask the soldiers to surrender, whdn they did they were nontheless killed. The Afghan didn't have any air support like the Kurds were seeying. Biden completely abandoned everyone. It was already commented months before that the Afghan soldiers wouldn't be capable to hold in it on their own. Soldiers and people who worked for the US are being killed. There are some very very horrific video's out that shows how those evil delusional extremist are doing things.

If Biden only listened to his intellingence source who told him that the whole country (Afghanistan) would collapse, things could've gone in a different way.

Both didn't do good things, but what Biden did is in whole level different that what Trump sadly did with the Kurds. Biden let his own citizens and a whole army of weapons at the hand of extremist who are not living in the 21st century. What is so ironic is, they ban western things yet they use western technology (Phones, weapons) Shouldn't they be using sticks since they dislike all western things.

Biden lying through his teeth and the extremist the same, lies and more lies. I trully hope that all people are evacuated and after that if those extremist try something, bomb them out of this galaxy. They


----------



## lokomelo (Aug 23, 2021)

Biden is extremely evasive about USA's responsibility right now. He is taking the "America First" to the next level. Now I got how bad were the two choices that American had in the past elections.

So, good luck to the honest American people here, you faced 4 awfully years, and the next 4 will not be any better.


----------



## Xzi (Aug 23, 2021)

DoubleDate said:


> The differences between the 2 is that the Kurds were more organized and were already fighting the enemy.


The only difference between the two is that the Kurds had to submit to Putin after we left, and Afghans had to submit to the Taliban.  Neither is a positive outcome.



DoubleDate said:


> If Biden only listened to his intellingence source who told him that the whole country (Afghanistan) would collapse, things could've gone in a different way.


That's not what military leadership was telling him or any previous president.  They were blowing smoke up all the politicians' asses, on both sides of the aisle.  Nevertheless, Biden should've finished evacuating all of our Afghan allies prior to beginning the evacuation of Americans.



DoubleDate said:


> Both didn't do good things, but what Biden did is in whole level different that what Trump sadly did with the Kurds.


I disagree, both decisions were completely lacking in empathy and understanding of our responsibilities to the region which we destabilized.  Trump would not have acted any differently during our withdrawal from Afghanistan, he would've only left even sooner.  As I said: we were only given the illusion of choice in this matter.


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## notimp (Aug 24, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Nevertheless, Biden should've finished evacuating all of our Afghan allies prior to beginning the evacuation of Americans.


Thats an emotional statement, right?

Allies and families: 30k+
People from Afghanistan given US citizenship in 2020: less than 100
People flown out of Kabul in the past days: 3.300
https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-mo...ens-evacuated-from-afghanistan-181612743.html
People evacuated from Afghanistan in the past weeks: 18k
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-speech-afghanistan-americans-come-home/
US Citizens still in Afghanistan: 15k

People from Afghanistan The LA Times says the US could give refuge to: 150K
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...ugee-crisis-and-can-shape-the-worlds-response


Here: UVDLs Statement on the current position of the EU:


> Here, I want to emphasise that the European Union is firmly committed to continue supporting the NGOs operating in the country. Humanitarian needs are increasing with the latest development. If we look at the number of internally displaced people, it is the largest number, it is 3.7 million people almost. And 80% of them are women and girls, and children. And they are the most at risk. So we must help ensure that displaced Afghans can safely return to their homes, or have at least a perspective, whether they are currently in Afghanistan or in the neighbouring countries. And for that purpose, the Commission is currently working on increasing its current humanitarian aid.


europa.eu/!hygTrb

Thats distinctly not "lets fly 150k of them to Guam", and I highly doubt, that the US position will ever become that. (Or even to take in 30k+ helpers and family.)

edit: G7 meeting this week will decide on routes:


> This means, first, that we must offer legal and safe routes globally, organised by us, the international community, to those who need protection. And for this to be effective, we must act together on a global level. That will be indeed one of the issues, Charles and Pedro, that I think is central to the G7 meeting next week. At the G7 meeting, I would like to follow up on the Resettlement Forum that the Commission organised in July together with some Member States, with Canada, the United States and the UNHCR. This resettlement of vulnerable people is of utmost importance, it is our moral duty.
> 
> And in this Resettlement Forum, we agreed to coordinate our efforts to find much needed solutions for refugees in need of protection. So now is the time to put that commitment into action. And in particular, we need to think about those in imminent danger in Afghanistan, such as journalists or human rights defenders, and especially women and girls.


And I'd be severely surprised if a large proportion of them end up in western countries, as by a G7 decision.


Googled more:
UK says it would take 20k (which is surprisingly high)
edit: Ah, "about 5000 are expected in the UK within the first year".
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...n-to-resettle-20000-refugees-from-afghanistan

EU has put up funding for 30k until the end of this year
https://www.euronews.com/2021/08/16...europe-on-the-verge-of-a-fresh-refugee-crisis

UNHCR says estimated number of people displaced is 400k:
https://www.euronews.com/2021/08/16...europe-on-the-verge-of-a-fresh-refugee-crisis

Refugee Routes into Europe are going through Turkey and Belarus (same source).

edit: Neat graph on how Afghan refugees were "dispersed" in 2020:





https://theconversation.com/where-do-afghanistans-refugees-go-166316


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## Xzi (Aug 24, 2021)

notimp said:


> Thats an emotional statement, right?


No.  Our deal with the Taliban ensured they would not be targeting any Americans as they withdrew, which is exactly how things are going down.  Therefore it was obvious who they would be targeting the moment we started pulling out: Afghan citizens, specifically civil rights advocates and those that assisted in US operations.



notimp said:


> Allies and families: 30k+
> People from Afghanistan The LA Times says the US could give refuge to: 150K


Seems it shouldn't have been a problem then, eh?  If the US doesn't want to take in refugees, it shouldn't be stirring up decades-long wars that create so many refugees in the first place.  Pretty simple rule of thumb.

Biden's only excuse for why we shouldn't have any responsibility to our Afghan allies is that "Nixon got away with it" when leaving Vietnam, but needless to say, Nixon probably isn't the best comparison to draw on when it comes to issues of morality.


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## notimp (Aug 24, 2021)

Xzi said:


> No. Our deal with the Taliban ensured they would not be targeting any Americans as they withdrew, which is exactly how things are going down. Therefore it was obvious who they would be targeting the moment we started pulling out: Afghan citizens, specifically civil rights advocates and those that assisted in US operations.


Yeah, and?

It was also obviously from the beginning, that the US would never honor a promise to protect many translator and their families that worked for US troops and or contractors.



The only thing that went a little astray at the moment was the speed at which the Taliban were able to take over the capital, thats about it.



> Seems it shouldn't have been a problem then, eh? If the US doesn't want to take in refugees, it shouldn't be stirring up decades-long wars that create so many refugees in the first place. Pretty simple rule of thumb.


Why would they. Literacy rate at 38%. Qualification grade "speaks english and pashto, has a family of six". Close to a trillion already spent in country (although most were US military salaries for fiddling with their noses, I guess). How effectively would you want to extend the invitation based on 5 cable stations doing 5 independant interviews of translators that made it to the US and now talk about their extended families being killed, or threatened?

I mean...

You can say "thank you" to china, that they have an investment plan for social stability involving the Taliban in the region active at the moment. And then you can tell yourself that for every 100 "western oriented" people you let into your country, there will be close to 100x of refugees in the region. So... what?

Too bad, that Kabul fell this fast, ey?


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## Xzi (Aug 24, 2021)

notimp said:


> It was also obviously from the beginning, that the US would never honor a promise to protect every translator and their family that worked for US troops and or contractors - from the beginning.


That was certainly obvious to me as a high school student, which is why I protested the invasion of both Afghanistan and Iraq.  But I think if it was more obvious to everybody, mainstream support for these invasions would've been nil.  We can only hope that the outcome here teaches a few people a few valuable lessons about imperialism, but even that might be too much to hope for.


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## notimp (Aug 24, 2021)

For that you'd have to have a public reason for why you were in the country in the first place. One that makes sense I mean.

You were searching for Bin Laden, whom you've found in Pakistan I hear, and fighting terror networks, threatening the free world from the top of the Hindu Kush - by trowing bombs.

You should really hear the mental and rhetorical gymnastics, the current german foreign policy speakers are actively engaged in to rectify why in summer they argued, that they'd at least need to stay an entire additional year in Afghanistan, and then on the day of the US troop withdrawal, fell in line with that plan an that schedule...

Regardless - nothing new here... Its just that I currently see how you get an entire society CAPTIVATED, by talking about the moral responsibility to help out refugees, with a EU figurehead visiting a camp that at the time had 60 people flown in from Kabul, and at the same time strengthening greeces borders.

While everyone agreed a week earlier, that the mode of action was to "minimize the fallout - while leaving". And all actions were planed based on that.

Even the "should have been evacuated earlier (US citizens)" seems to be mostly semantics, because - the CIA and other agencies failed to have the right threat assessment at hand. Or the other way around, the taliban were _exceptionally_ successful in convincing local governments, that now that the US had effed off, it really would only be a matter of time until they were in power, and by voluntarily falling under their command, they could keep most of the set up power structures, just under new rule.


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## Xzi (Aug 24, 2021)

notimp said:


> For that you'd have to have a public reason for why you were in the country in the first place.


After a certain point it was widely acknowledged (but not by the Bush admin) that the mission had become nation building, supporting civil rights and a new form of government in the region which was far less oppressive than the previous Taliban regime.  Instead we gave Afghans, and particularly women, a small taste of a better life, only to crush all their hopes and dreams later in the span of 24 hours.



notimp said:


> Its just that I currently see how you get an entire society CAPTIVATED, by talking about the moral responsibility to help out refugees, with a EU figurehead visiting a camp that at the time had 60 people flown in from Kabul, and at the same time strengthening greeces borders.


The reason that such a statement is so captivating is that he's right.  It's primarily the US' mess, and so it's primarily the US' responsibility to clean it up, regardless of how many refugees the EU is or isn't taking from Afghanistan.  The politics and rules of the old guard no longer apply, younger generations expect better of our leaders, just as it should be.  Especially when we already had history as a guide for what not to do.


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## notimp (Aug 24, 2021)

Biden says Afghanistan was never about nation-building
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/In...s-Afghanistan-was-never-about-nation-building

You can also find and read the WP article on that.

If you are interested, it most likely was of strategic military importance in the region, as with every other world power that tried to annex it. Alongside of it having been a way to funnel public money into the military industrial complex. That ended with the US intelligence services being publically embarrassed and a President currently taking most of the blame for it.

And in terms of "nation building" - it still had been a military operation. Not a cultural excursion of "winning over their hearts and minds" - so, surprise - you didn't.

I personally was pro Bidens stance of getting out after 20 years, and I'm even willing to be blamed for the direct consequences, and the current outcome - but what I find hard to take is that the public conversation currently is one about "how the US has a responsibility in helping the refugees". Dont get me wrong, it has - but, then also look at what they did on that front prior to the "public fallout" of the "hasty retreat".

And not only conjur up an image of a society, now so very willing to help, because things kind of went not as expected. (Not directed at you, but rather media outlets, making that the big story currently.)

And very likely six months from now, thats not a priority anymore.


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## Xzi (Aug 24, 2021)

notimp said:


> Biden says Afghanistan was never about nation-building


Yes I'm aware Biden doesn't want to acknowledge the reality of the situation, just as the Bush admin didn't.  The fact of the matter remains that we started building schools and other institutions in Afghanistan relatively quickly after our initial invasion.



notimp said:


> And in terms of "nation building" - it still had been a military operation. Not a cultural excursion of "winning over their hearts and minds" - so, surprise - you didn't.


True.  The few hearts and minds we won over were mostly a result of all the money we were pouring into the country.  We never really took the time to understand the fragmented cultural situation there or the ideologies of all the disparate tribal groups, which is a big part of the reason the Afghan military folded so quickly.



notimp said:


> I personally was pro Bidens stance of getting out after 20 years, and I'm even willing to be blamed for the direct consequences, and the current outcome - but what I find hard to take is that the public conversation currently is one about "how the US has a responsibility in helping the refugees". Dont get me wrong, it has - but, then also look at what they did on that front prior to the "public fallout" of the "hasty retreat".
> 
> And not only conjur up an image of a society, now so very willing to help, because things kind of went not as expected. (Not directed at you, but rather media outlets, making that the big story currently.)


The media circus has certainly elevated itself to a whole new level of ridiculousness over our withdrawal, there's no denying that.  The problem isn't the few outlets that are calling for compassion though, rather it's all the outlets that have suddenly decided they love forever wars and imperialism because the billionaires who own them also have investments in weapons manufacturers/defense contractors.


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## notimp (Aug 24, 2021)

Xzi said:


> Yes I'm aware Biden doesn't want to acknowledge the reality of the situation, just as the Bush admin didn't. The fact of the matter remains that we started building schools and other institutions in Afghanistan relatively quickly after our initial invasion.


Oh, of course we did.

I've just watched about ten videos from Roger Willemsen (german) about how "intensive" the support for local NGOs in the region has been.

And how wonderful the cooperation with the leading military official in the region turned out, that often pronounced "for tha security" regimes that made it impossible to keep those schools open and running. When they didnt bomb a hospital nearby...

The NGOs told them, let them self organize, the military told them, lets not. The NGOs told them - get your military protection out of the way, the families are afraid to send their children, because they could become targets, the military told them - how about not. The usual song and dance...


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## notimp (Aug 24, 2021)

US is now evacuating up to 11k people per day, with the majority apparently being flown into Dallas.
According to Al Jazeera


I've read somewhere else, that they have capacity for 5-9k to be flown out of country elsewhere.

Seems a bit high for targets given out by the UK and the EU at the moment... But if they are doing that - than the US really is doing something here.

edit: WP writing about the preparations also doesnt sound like that would become a sustained 7k per day....
https://archive.is/JQMiO


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## subcon959 (Aug 24, 2021)

Did anyone watch the Taliban press conference?


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## notimp (Aug 25, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Did anyone watch the Taliban press conference?


Which one?  Saw the one where Al Jazeera noticed 15 minutes in, that what they were broadcasting represented the handing over of the presidential palace in Kabul, but you probably dont mean that one.. 

Are there questions? They are firm on the US leaving by Aug 31th apparently having used phrasing that indicated, that they would be worried about a brain drain - they are feigning to be "more liberal" in cities, having allowed schools for girls to remain open, but they have told female government employees to stay at home (and potentially think about giving their position to a male relative). And there are reports of public hangings and heavy repressions from "the countryside".


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## subcon959 (Aug 25, 2021)

It was the live one that was finishing as I was posting that message. The spokesman kept saying how everyone concerned about women didn't need to worry as they would continue to be treated well as dictated by Islamic law...


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## chrisrlink (Aug 26, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> It was the live one that was finishing as I was posting that message. The spokesman kept saying how everyone concerned about women didn't need to worry as they would continue to be treated well as dictated by Islamic law...


you know as well as I do thats pure horseshit never trust a terrorist's word NEVER


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## subcon959 (Aug 26, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> you know as well as I do thats pure horseshit never trust a terrorist's word NEVER


Islamic (he may well have meant Sharia) law is not great for women so we should be concerned if they actually do what they said.


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## chrisrlink (Aug 26, 2021)

tannnnnnnnnnnnnddddd i was right by not trusting terrorist https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/asia/afghanistan-kabul-airport-blast-intl/index.html the taliban fucked up their chance for a withdraw ok so i may allign myself with democrat but if biden continues the withdraw after this he's an idiot


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## djpannda (Aug 26, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> tannnnnnnnnnnnnddddd i was right by not trusting terrorist https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/asia/afghanistan-kabul-airport-blast-intl/index.html the taliban fucked up their chance for a withdraw ok so i may allign myself with democrat but if biden continues the withdraw after this he's an idiot


but thats the Plan, Have the US delay Withdraw, so the International Community can point the finger on US for not following on the Agreement they signed to leave. The Withdraw needs to ramp up not delay


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## chrisrlink (Aug 26, 2021)

then again i rather elect an idiot again than a narcissistic fatass tyrant wannabe


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## lokomelo (Aug 26, 2021)

chrisrlink said:


> then again i rather elect an idiot again than a narcissistic fatass tyrant wannabe


The line is so blurred out, that I can't tell witch one is witch. Both are idiot, both are tyrant, both are fatass, one is more narcissist than the other, maybe that's I why got the impression that the later is Trump

Anyway, I think you all aware of the atrocious terrorist act that happened today, it is total disaster, this whole thing is a terrible disaster and I am genuinely sad.



djpannda said:


> but thats the Plan, Have the US delay Withdraw, so the International Community can point the finger on US for not following on the Agreement they signed to leave. The Withdraw needs to ramp up not delay



You are really calling the international community out? Really?


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## Hanafuda (Aug 27, 2021)

12 dead Marines, bloody dead Afghanis stacked like cordwood in the street? It's that dirty Trump _again_!!


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## BitMasterPlus (Aug 27, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> 12 dead Marines, bloody dead Afghanis stacked like cordwood in the street? It's that dirty Trump _again_!!


It's always orange man bad's fault somehow.


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## djpannda (Aug 27, 2021)

“The White House, via pool: Since August 14, the U.S. has evacuated and facilitated the evacuation of approximately 100,100 people. “ 

Please can anyone tell me the number of suicide bomber And death in 2016,2017,2018,2019,2020. Compared to 2021?


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## Xzi (Aug 27, 2021)

Hanafuda said:


> 12 dead Marines, bloody dead Afghanis stacked like cordwood in the street? It's that dirty Trump _again_!!


I know you're being facetious, but this does go to show that Biden should've cancelled Trump's (shitty) agreement with the Taliban altogether, rather than just extending the deadline a few months.  After the draw down to 2500 troops, we needed a surge to facilitate the start of our withdrawal, and it should've been a "it'll be done when it's done" type of deal, rather than having any specific deadline.


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## lokomelo (Aug 27, 2021)

djpannda said:


> “The White House, via pool: Since August 14, the U.S. has evacuated and facilitated the evacuation of approximately 100,100 people. “
> 
> Please can anyone tell me the number of suicide bomber And death in 2016,2017,2018,2019,2020. Compared to 2021?


Yes I can, it is inside the spoiler thing down bellow. The source is a government agency from UK. 
I just don't understand what you kind of story you are trying to tell with this info.



Spoiler




26 August 2021: a terrorist attack in the vicinity of Kabul International Airport and nearby hotel.


3 August 2021: a terrorist attack with a VBIED and small arms targeted the MoD Ministers’ house within the ESZ, killing several civilians.


30 July 2021: an NGO location, which included UN offices, was attacked during ongoing clashes in Herat city, Herat province


20 July 2021: a terrorist attack launched several rockets aimed at the Green Zone, stated to have been targeting the Presidential Palace


8 June 2021: 10 HALO Trust staff were killed and 16 were injured in an attack by an armed group at a demining camp in Baghlan Province


14 May 2021: an IED attack at a Mosque on the outskirts of Kabul killed 12


8 May 2021: explosions near a school in Kabul killed 85 people, predominately female students, and injured nearly 150 people


30 April 2021: explosions in Pul-e-Alam, capital of Logar Province, killed 30 people and injured 90 more people


24 November 2020: a terrorist attack killed at least 17 people and injured over 50 people with two explosions in Bamian city market
21 November 2020: a terrorist attack launched several rockets aimed at the Green Zone, stated to have been targeting both foreign and government officials
2 November 2020: a terrorist attack targeted a building within the Kabul University complex, killing at least 19 civilians and wounding 12 people
12 May 2020: a terrorist attack targeted a maternity ward at a hospital in Kabul city, killing 24 and wounding at least another 20 people
25 March 2020: a terrorist attack targeted a Sikh Gurdwara in Kabul city, killing 25 and wounding at least another eight people
18 October 2019: a suicide bomber targeted a mosque in Deh Bala, Nagarhar, killing 69 and wounding 36 people.
18 August 2019: a suicide bomber struck at a Shia wedding ceremony in the west of Kabul, killing 63 people and wounding more than 180 other people.
7 August 2019: a suicide vehicle based device struck a police location in Kabul city, killing 14 and injuring 145, 92 of whom were civilians.


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## djpannda (Aug 27, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> Yes I can, it is inside the spoiler thing down bellow. The source is a government agency from UK.
> I just don't understand what you kind of story you are trying to tell with this info.
> [/spoiler]


That there has been at least 12 Sucide Bombing after the Trump Admin signed the Agreement with the Taliban. Yet where were the outrage and talks of abandoning the deal then?  ...  Fake outage is political motivated. This is a shitshow and the only why to completly Secure Afghanistan is to make it an official US own territory or it needs to get out now... as majority of Afghans do not have the will to fight the Taliban


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## lokomelo (Aug 27, 2021)

djpannda said:


> This is a shitshow


yes I agree, this was was a shitshow from day 1, and the withdraw is a shitshow too.



djpannda said:


> the only why to completly Secure Afghanistan is to make it an official US own territory or it needs to get out now


Only an imperialist mind sees a imperialist process as the only solution, that's not the only solution and at this point should be obvious. (Italy and Japan were not colonized after invasion, despite how fanatic and vicious those countries were right before war).
A proper post war reconstruction and measures against poverty are solutions that USA really never tried, maybe because there is not oil underneath Afghanistan, who knows.



djpannda said:


> as majority of Afghans do not have the will to fight the Taliban


"blame de victim" should be the new national motto just next to "make America great again"

The USA messed up badly, that's whats happened.


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## silien3 (Aug 27, 2021)

djpannda said:


> That there has been at least 12 Sucide Bombing after the Trump Admin signed the Agreement with the Taliban. Yet where were the outrage and talks of abandoning the deal then?  ...  Fake outage is political motivated. This is a shitshow and the only why to completly Secure Afghanistan is to make it an official US own territory or it needs to get out now... as majority of Afghans do not have the will to fight the Taliban


normal you did not train the afghans to fight but made them chickens but offer weapons to the taliban ca you want well after what will be going to offer the nuclear bomb to the north korea?


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## djpannda (Aug 27, 2021)

lokomelo said:


> Only an imperialist mind sees a imperialist process as the only solution,




I was being sarcastic with that option.




lokomelo said:


> "blame de victim" should be the new national motto just next to "make America great again"


Afghan soldiers and police reached roughly 200,000. Yet Most of the Country was taken by the Taliban in days in most case with out a single shot fired.  (Granted its because most of the Mitliary in those Providences were already bought off by the Taliban) but With the Military automatically laying down their arms and the Afghan leadership, President Ghani Fled the country within a week. shows that there was no will.  ( Grated you can say it was the fault on the US and how they Setup/Structured  the country, but its still what happened


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## laudern (Sep 2, 2021)

After 4 years of fabricated impeachment outrage, we now have a 100% legitimate reason to impeach a president. When the republicans get control of the house in the mid terms, we'll hopefully have a chance of removing this danger of the free world.


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## subcon959 (Sep 2, 2021)

laudern said:


> After 4 years of fabricated impeachment outrage, we now have a 100% legitimate reason to impeach a president. When the republicans get control of the house in the mid terms, we'll hopefully have a chance of removing this danger of the free world.


Yeah, I don't see it. Although, I do think it's amusing for Biden to be considered dangerous.. I'm sure Harris would be a more benign replacement right?


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## LinkmstrYT (Sep 2, 2021)

subcon959 said:


> Yeah, I don't see it. Although, I do think it's amusing for Biden to be considered dangerous.. I'm sure Harris would be a more benign replacement right?


Funny how they specifically called a certain impeachment "fabricated" when it's been proven along with even more stuff coming out of the GOP closets as the days go by.

Honestly, the real danger we have right now is the GOP and them trying to change a lot of things right now. Such as, but not limited to, voter suppression, downplaying the threat of a certain pandemic, not caring about the People, spreading misinformation, trying to erase their bad history (like Trump's deal with the Taliban being removed from GOP sites), etc... Basically,  continuously causing more harm in the US.

It's just hilarious how these folks try to shift the blame, distract others, and change the topic when it doesn't suit their views and narrative.


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## subcon959 (Sep 25, 2021)

It looks like my comment above about it being amusing that Biden could be considered dangerous didn't age well..

RIP the 7 children that died needlessly.


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