# Democrats fail to advance the For the People Act



## Valwinz (Jun 23, 2021)

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1407467228329615375

This is very good news as you know democrats wanted to mess up the elections by destroying all layers of security and pretty much have the federal government take elections from the states.
I'm for one not in favor of the  federal take over of elections.

Dead people voting won't be legalized and you should show your ID to vote


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## Lacius (Jun 23, 2021)

The For the People Act dramatically strengthened election security. It wouldn't have "destroyed" all or any layers of security. The For the People Act would not have caused "the federal government to take elections from the states." The bill would not have allowed dead people to vote, it would not have done anything to stop states from mitigating dead people voting, and it would not have banned the requirement of voter ID.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/annotated-guide-people-act-2021#t1-top

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/three-false-claims-about-the-federal-voting-rights-bill/

The For the People Act was very popular. It had roughly 70% support from Americans, including majority support from Republicans. There aren't many arguments against the bill, which is why some people have to make up arguments against it.


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## Valwinz (Jun 23, 2021)

Lacius said:


> The For the People Act dramatically strengthened election security. It wouldn't have "destroyed" all or any layers of security. The For the People Act would not have caused "the federal government to take elections from the states." The bill would not have allowed dead people to vote, it would not have done anything to stop states from mitigating dead people voting, and it would not have banned the requirement of voter ID.
> 
> https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/annotated-guide-people-act-2021#t1-top
> 
> ...


Sorry Lacius Nobody wants the federal government to take over state elections


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## Lacius (Jun 23, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Sorry Lacius Nobody wants the federal government to take over state elections


Then it's a good thing that's not what the bill does. Did you read my post? It sounds as though you didn't.


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## Kraken_X (Jun 23, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Sorry Lacius Nobody wants the federal government to take over state elections



What if the elections that states were running were unfair?  What if the state government was run by one party and deliberately reduced the number of polling places in opposing districts intentionally to keep their power?  What if they made hundreds of thousands of people share the same polling place?  What if those people had to wait for literally days in line in the snow and the cold for the right to vote at said limited polling places?  What if many of those people had to take unpaid time off work and were already living paycheck to paycheck.  What if this all happened during a deadly pandemic?  What if alternatives to waiting in that line like early voting and absentee voting were restricted or removed?  What if the votes didn't even matter because gerrymandered districts allow the politician to create districts they cannot lose?

This isn't hypothetical.  Democracy isn't supposed to be like that.  Ideally, this wouldn't be a partisan issue.  There are ways to make elections both secure and accessible, but one party is intentionally not even trying to improve things, because the unfair system benefits them.


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## Valwinz (Jun 23, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Then it's a good thing that's not what the bill does. Did you read my post? It sounds as though you didn't.


Lacius I'm sorry but you will need to still need your ID to vote


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## tabzer (Jun 23, 2021)

"But did you read my propaganda on how federal regulations are not really federal regulations?"

“Democrats just voted to ban voter ID nationwide.”

When we asked for support for that claim, Lauren Fine, a spokeswoman for Scalise, told us: “The exceptions are so wide that it renders voter ID laws unenforceable and useless in the states that have it.”

Even though "H.R. 1 wouldn’t _ban_ state laws that ask voters to show identification at the polls, as Scalise and others have said""..."there is an option for those who don’t have ID to offer a signed statement instead during federal elections."  So it would just make ID laws unenforceable and useless like his office said when asked for supporting clarification.  It's not a ban on the IDs themselves, but an effective ban on their enforcement.  But we will ignore that and rate it as a false claim anyway.

"The second claim — also promoted by Republican lawmakers, such as Rep. Elise Stefanik of New York — isn’t true, either.

Stefanik took to Twitter to claim that the bill would: “Prevent removal of ineligible voters from registration rolls.”"

Just kidding.  It's true.

"The bill would prohibit the use of one method for removing voters from the rolls -- which involves sending mass mailings to registered voters, then removing or challenging the registrations of voters for whom the mailings were returned as non-deliverable."

Oh, and allowing felons to vote?  Who cares.

That's the gist of your post Lacius.  Maybe you should give your politifact article a good read.


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## Lacius (Jun 23, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Lacius I'm sorry but you will need to still need your ID to vote


Do you know which state I live in?



tabzer said:


> Oh, and allowing felons to vote?  Who cares.


Who cares?


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## Valwinz (Jun 23, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Do you know which state I live in?
> 
> 
> Who cares?


Lacius no dead people have no right to vote just take the L the elections wont be taken away from states


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## Lacius (Jun 23, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Lacius no dead people have no right to vote just take the L the elections wont be taken away from states


Nobody is advocating for dead people being allowed to vote.


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jun 24, 2021)

If you need to show an ID for insignificant things such as buying tobacco or marijuana I think something as important as voting should require you to show an ID.

I also don't buy the Liberals "oh, black folks are too stupid to get an actual State ID or a State License  card". Minorities are just as capable as the majority.


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## Xzi (Jun 24, 2021)

Yes let's celebrate Jim Crow laws being re-enacted on the state level.  Can y'all even hear yourselves talking?  So much for the right-wing supposedly defending our freedoms.


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## enigma85 (Jun 24, 2021)

I'm not saying Trump should've won, but the last voting was janked up beyond belief. No idea if shady things went on, but I'm sure they did. I voted Trump and I accept he didn't win. It happens in democracy. 

That being said, we should have no mail in voting unless physically unable to vote. There should not be any early voting. I do think we should do a week long vote or something more than 1 day. ID's should absolutely be a must, and if you can't get a license, states should do exactly what GA does and give free state ID's. That way every adult has access to an ID. Absentee voting shouldn't change. 

That's it. These simple changes can up the security tremendously and allow for everyone that is eligible to vote to vote. Mail in voting is too unsecure. there are too many hands that touch the ballots to get it to the right person and get it back to be counted. It really should be an honest last resort.

Also to those who think Democrats are prevalent in this US, look at the red vs blue map of the states. I really think something should be done because most of the blue states are only blue because of the major heavily populated cities. I don't think most of America's land should be dictated by small over populated areas. Now I have no idea how to make it fair and change it for the better but it needs to change really somehow. What's good for those over populated cities is not what's good for the 85% rest of the US, and vice versa.

My two cents. and not worth anymore than that. haha


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## Xzi (Jun 24, 2021)

enigma85 said:


> Mail in voting is too unsecure.


It's proven itself more secure than in-person voting in states that had it available for years before COVID.



enigma85 said:


> there are too many hands that touch the ballots to get it to the right person and get it back to be counted.


Like postal workers?  Their jobs are shitty enough without being indicted on federal charges for tampering.



enigma85 said:


> I really think something should be done because most of the blue states are only blue because of the major heavily populated cities. I don't think most of America's land should be dictated by small over populated areas.


This makes zero sense.  Land doesn't vote, people do.  Democracy is majority wins, that's how it works.  That doesn't mean we have to continue locking ourselves into a two-party system by using first past the post, though.


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## enigma85 (Jun 24, 2021)

Xzi said:


> It's proven itself more secure than in-person voting in states that had it available for years before COVID.
> 
> 
> Like postal workers?  Their jobs are shitty enough without being indicted on federal charges for tampering.
> ...



It has been proven by media. Not actual studies. Which is the problem. Media, social and normal is too bias and people believe it for what the author sees it as. Most don't take an objective view of the topic and most don't research more than one news outlet. If they even read the whole story and not just the title.

 And postal workers are human and have been caught doing things way worse imo. So yea people with shitty jobs have less to lose usually. And yes they were caught discarding ballots and such everywhere.

And it totally makes sense. I get that majority wins but what is good for those small land masses is not good for the other areas. and vice versa. so they shouldn't dictate the laws and rules and policies for the entire nation like it happens. Again I have no idea how to change it cause essentially if you did it would take away the whole majority rules but a state should not be blue and all electoral votes go to that person because 1 city is over populated and voted blue. The rest of state was red so some electoral votes should go red.

idk it's all above my pay grade. I just vote and go with what I learn. A lot needs to change, mainly all the old fogies in charge. Term limits and normal pay/retirement/benefits for those in congress for one. If you're a millionaire you shouldn't be in congress cause usually you aren't working for the people, you're working for your pocketbook. \

Not trying to argue but these are all problems that need to be fixed and our "leaders" are too rich and have old school ways of thinking and have their heads so far up their own asses to actually fix things. A covid relief package should not be thousands of pages and encompass anything but covid relief. No budget add-ons or new fbi/government buildings or funds for anything but Covid relief.


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## Xzi (Jun 24, 2021)

enigma85 said:


> It has been proven by media. Not actual studies. Which is the problem.


No, it's been proven by the official state and federal audits for voter fraud.  Most elections see roughly twenty cases of it, this last election saw around ten, and most of those were double votes for Trump.



enigma85 said:


> And postal workers are human and have been caught doing things way worse imo. So yea people with shitty jobs have less to lose usually. And yes they were caught discarding ballots and such everywhere.


I'm guessing you have one single anecdotal source for this, if you have any source for it at all.



enigma85 said:


> And it totally makes sense. I get that majority wins but what is good for those small land masses is not good for the other areas. and vice versa. so they shouldn't dictate the laws and rules and policies for the entire nation like it happens.


That's frankly irrelevant, we have state and local governments for that very reason.  The federal government has a virtually non-existent role on the individual level, and in many ways that's preferable, except in times of need.



enigma85 said:


> Again I have no idea how to change it cause essentially if you did it would take away the whole majority rules but a state should not be blue and all electoral votes go to that person because 1 city is over populated and voted blue. The rest of state was red so some electoral votes should go red.


The beef you've got is with both the electoral college and first past the post voting.  If we abolish the electoral college and establish nationwide ranked voting, one person would equal one vote (no more winner of a state takes all), more parties would have the opportunity to compete with the big two, and no one single party would be able to amass too much power without support from others.



enigma85 said:


> A covid relief package should not be thousands of pages and encompass anything but covid relief. No budget add-ons or ne fbi buildings or funds for anything but Covid relief.


Just more compromises that had to be made in order to pass the bill.  Another consequence of the two-party system.


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## Jayro (Jun 24, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> Lacius I'm sorry but you will need to still need your ID to vote


I mail in my ballot. Fuck a voter ID. Y'all are against places asking for vaccination ID, but you're all for voter ID. Hypocrites to the extreme...


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## Tigran (Jun 24, 2021)

Jayro said:


> I mail in my ballot. Fuck a voter ID. Y'all are against places asking for vaccination ID, but you're all for voter ID. Hypocrites to the extreme...



I'm for both. I just don't think the requirements for voting IDs should be damn near impossible to get if you don't have literally all day and a lot of money to spend on the phone trying to track down a birth certificate, which sometimes you can't get without ID... Which you can't get without birth certificate. Voting IDs should be free *period* as well,. not close to 20 dollars, and getting to the one place in 45 miles to get a voter ID shouldn't be near impossible for people who can't drive.


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## Valwinz (Jun 24, 2021)

Jayro said:


> I mail in my ballot. Fuck a voter ID. Y'all are against places asking for vaccination ID, but you're all for voter ID. Hypocrites to the extreme...


O yes they are same thing what a big IQ post

Sorry i wont eat the bugs


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## Lacius (Jun 24, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> O yes they are same thing what a big IQ post
> 
> Sorry i wont eat the bugs


Proof of vaccination literally helps keep people alive. The voter ID movement is meant to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters and rile up the conservative base about fake election fraud. I agree with you; they aren't the same.


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## Xzi (Jun 24, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> O yes they are same thing what a big IQ post
> 
> Sorry i wont eat the bugs


The only way they're different is in the groups they target, which is precisely why you're okay with one and not the other.  And yes, that does make you a hypocrite.


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## Valwinz (Jun 24, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Proof of vaccination literally helps keep people alive. The voter ID movement is meant to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters and rile up the conservative base about fake election fraud. I agree with you; they aren't the same.


from the 99.8% survival virus


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## Lacius (Jun 24, 2021)

Valwinz said:


> from the 99.8% survival virus


First, before vaccination was commonplace, it was more like 99.0%. That's a high rate of survival, but given how contagious the virus is, that's millions of deaths if everyone gets it. Second, COVID-19 has killed 603,000 Americans so far, and that number continues to rise at a rate of approximately 300 people a day (almost all of whom are not vaccinated).


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## Jayro (Jun 24, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Proof of vaccination literally helps keep people alive. The voter ID movement is meant to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters and rile up the conservative base about fake election fraud. I agree with you; they aren't the same.


They also like to compare the BLM riots to the Jan 6th insurrection, but they don't even have a leg to stand on.

We're upset because we're tired of cops killing us in the streets.

They're upset because their presidential candidate lost in a fair election.

_Not comparable in the slightest._


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## Sicklyboy (Jun 24, 2021)

enigma85 said:


> there are too many hands that touch the ballots to get it to the right person and get it back to be counted





Xzi said:


> Like postal workers? Their jobs are shitty enough without being indicted on federal charges for tampering.



Not only that, but do you understand the scale that mail-in vote tampering would have to take place at to make literally ANY difference AT ALL?


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## KingVamp (Jun 24, 2021)

Sicklyboy said:


> Not only that, but do you understand the scale that mail-in vote tampering would have to take place at to make literally ANY difference AT ALL?


If tampering was that bad, people would be trying to shutdown mailing altogether.


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## JonhathonBaxster (Jul 1, 2021)

Jayro said:


> They also like to compare the BLM riots to the Jan 6th insurrection, but they don't even have a leg to stand on.
> 
> We're upset because we're tired of cops killing us in the streets.
> 
> ...



You may think one groups reason for protesting is valid while the others not, but from an outside Independent I see both reasons are completely valid regardless if I agree with them or not. For the record, I don't think rioting, looting, arson, murder and trespassing are justified regardless of the reasons surrounding both BLM and Trump losing the 2020 election. The 1000's of BLM & Antifa riots and the singular Trump riot were all uncalled for.


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## Seliph (Jul 1, 2021)

Hey @Valwinz you may wanna check this article out on the subject because literally everything you've said in this post is wrong. I have no idea how you overlooked this.


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## djpannda (Jul 1, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> an outside Independent I see




You do know we all can see your post history?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

 
oh I see what you did there “*impartial observer!”*


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## Jayro (Jul 1, 2021)

JonhathonBaxster said:


> You may think one groups reason for protesting is valid while the others not, but from an outside Independent I see both reasons are completely valid regardless if I agree with them or not. For the record, I don't think rioting, looting, arson, murder and trespassing are justified regardless of the reasons surrounding both BLM and Trump losing the 2020 election. The 1000's of BLM & Antifa riots and the singular Trump riot were all uncalled for.


We're tired of "talking", as it falls on deaf ears, and nothing changes.

_So until things change, we'll burn this planet to the fucking ground. _

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Sicklyboy said:


> Not only that, but do you understand the scale that mail-in vote tampering would have to take place at to make literally ANY difference AT ALL?


Exactly. Nobody had the time, money, or resources to commit suck fuckery in a timely manner. It's absurd what the right comes up with sometimes. And now that Dejoy has fucked the US postal system, I don't expect anything to improve for the 2024 election. I only expect #TeamRed to be mad again, accuse us of election fraud again, etc. Same old song and dance.


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## Julie_Pilgrim (Jul 12, 2021)

at this point im just reading valwinz's posts for comedic value


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## Viri (Jul 12, 2021)

Don't worry though, they'll give us an extension of the Patriot Act, again. That's a bipartisan issue.


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## jurai (Jul 12, 2021)

Extremely biased posts like this shouldn't be allowed lol who let this dumbass stay on the site


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## Deleted User (Jul 25, 2021)

Lacius said:


> Then it's a good thing that's not what the bill does. Did you read my post? It sounds as though you didn't.



Nobody cares what some partisan "fact checker" (nobody lied or trolled online before pre 2016 of course; that's totally why they are here).

Explain your view, and defend it yourself.


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## Dakitten (Jul 25, 2021)

Jayro said:


> We're tired of "talking", as it falls on deaf ears, and nothing changes.
> 
> _So until things change, we'll burn this planet to the fucking ground. _
> 
> ...



Nono, the powers that be are already burning this planet to the ground. Gotta encourage change to get them to stop. 

But seriously though, when the means of protest are infringed upon, violence is sure to ensue. The right throws a riot because their minority couldn't usurp some fraction of democracy that is still being practiced in the USA. The left throws a riot because they're being murdered by cops and extremists from the other side, wealth disparity is increasing, housing is becoming exponentially more expensive, pollution and climate change are destroying lives/homes/communities, the ability for the rich to buy elections is entrenched while the ability to even vote is constantly under siege, etc. Sure the centrist af Dems might not be a true ally, but the other folks go out of their way to antagonize and kill. No comparison.


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## Deleted User (Jul 26, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Nono, the powers that be are already burning this planet to the ground. Gotta encourage change to get them to stop.
> 
> But seriously though, when the means of protest are infringed upon, violence is sure to ensue. The right throws a riot because their minority couldn't usurp some fraction of democracy that is still being practiced in the USA. The left throws a riot because they're being murdered by cops and extremists from the other side, wealth disparity is increasing, housing is becoming exponentially more expensive, pollution and climate change are destroying lives/homes/communities, the ability for the rich to buy elections is entrenched while the ability to even vote is constantly under siege, etc. Sure the centrist af Dems might not be a true ally, but the other folks go out of their way to antagonize and kill. No comparison.



How many riots has the right thrown? Jan 6, where they attempted to 'take over the capital building' with no weapons?  Compared to daily riots for years in cities across the USA, burning, looting, damage so extreme that 'iz ok cuz all biz owners are all sups rich 'n have insurance' usually couldn't even afford to reopen afterwards. Anything goes for your perceived 'social justice' and 'anti-racism' (racist) actions that have little grounding in reality. 

The left is being murdered by cops and extremists from the other side? Post crime stats that support this. They don't exist.  The biggest problem minorities have right now (coming from someone who worked / is friends with actual black people from Baltimore city, has held positions in local politics, not one who was told this in a high school / college class or from people brainwashed into their victimhood status) of physical violence is from their own race.  6% of the population - black males - commit roughly half of all shootings in the USA. 70 shootings in Chicago this past weekend.  I didn't see BREAKING NEWS on CNN but I'm not surprised one bit by that. The left refuses to discuss cultural issues holding back the black community.

Housing costs are rising primarily because of inflation, material price increases, and pollution has zilch to do w/ that. Following up on that point.. If you think the planet is dying and needs action now: we have clean power and it's called nuclear. Read up on it and find out which party has prevented it from being used. The only incident in the US was 8 mi. island where radiation = to a chest xray was released, but it's off the table for something supposedly so urgent. Your own side is to blame.

Right to vote under siege? Huh? You're one of those white people who think black voters are stupid I take it.  They have ID, and are fine w/ presenting it to ensure safe elections. ~80% approval rating in cities in a few polls, all others well over 50%.  

Centrists are far leftists these days. We've seen what "compromise" means to Socialists, and we (like you've been for a long time) are no longer interested.

I did database work for the Census bureau and have a more than enough muscle memory statistics to see right through what you are repeating from whoever misinformed you.  I was brainwashed once, I meant well - I'm sure (I hope) you do too, but you are misinformed.


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## Dakitten (Jul 26, 2021)

eastwald said:


> How many riots has the right thrown? Jan 6, where they attempted to 'take over the capital building' with no weapons?  Compared to daily riots for years in cities across the USA, burning, looting, damage so extreme that 'iz ok cuz all biz owners are all sups rich 'n have insurance' usually couldn't even afford to reopen afterwards. Anything goes for your perceived 'social justice' and 'anti-racism' (racist) actions that have little grounding in reality.
> 
> The left is being murdered by cops and extremists from the other side? Post crime stats that support this. They don't exist.  The biggest problem minorities have right now (coming from someone who worked / is friends with actual black people from Baltimore city, has held positions in local politics, not one who was told this in a high school / college class or from people brainwashed into their victimhood status) of physical violence is from their own race.  6% of the population - black males - commit roughly half of all shootings in the USA. 70 shootings in Chicago this past weekend.  I didn't see BREAKING NEWS on CNN but I'm not surprised one bit by that. The left refuses to discuss cultural issues holding back the black community.
> 
> ...



Wowwie fluffing zowwie, did you really pull "I'm not racist, I have friends who are blackies, but MAAAATH!"? Protip for the future, comrade: this is not a way to prove yourself as anything but biased. If your point rang true at all, you wouldn't have even needed to say it. Ironically, I think Critical Race Theory might have done you a service, since you seem to view things by convenient statistics rather than practical means and methods.

I'd heard all those statistics growing up, but it was obvious why things were the way they were because I grew up in the reality of it all. Poor neighborhoods and roots in exploitation leave desperate folks to eke out a living any way they can, and rich folk commonly try to remedy the situation with over-policing... which amps up oppression tactics and fear, which makes things more desperate, which makes things worse in perpetuity and HEYHEY, would you look at that, the attempted method to solve the problem has utterly failed to handle things and lead to riots! Who could have guessed? 

Voter suppression tactics aren't simple klansmen putting on hoods and saying "No minorities 'cuz they aren't superior like us!", but "No id which costs money and requires a clear history and we don't care if we've done things to make that more difficult for you and oh yeah since many of you have to work multiple jobs to afford the bare minimum no early voting with your church groups and more scrutiny for ethnic sounding names on mail in voting when its even allowed!" Your work for the census bureau is cute, but I've spent time in the Registrar of Voters at every level of the process, and I can tell you that your viewpoint here is not only misinformed, but hurtful in the extreme and dead wrong. 

As for riots and violent protests, leftists have been run over, minorities have been murdered in droves, politicians have been threatened, and our own law enforcement has been speaking out for ages that the alt right is a terror threat. Sure, minority on minority crime is a tragedy and is prevalent statistically, but looking at problems objectively and finding solutions is more important than just pointing out skin colour and proclaiming "Solved it, darn darkies but what can you do... but I'm not racist!"


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## Deleted User (Jul 26, 2021)

Dakitten said:


> Wowwie fluffing zowwie, did you really pull "I'm not racist, I have friends who are blackies, but MAAAATH!"? Protip for the future, comrade: this is not a way to prove yourself as anything but biased. If your point rang true at all, you wouldn't have even needed to say it. Ironically, I think Critical Race Theory might have done you a service, since you seem to view things by convenient statistics rather than practical means and methods.



I'm not your comrade. I don't bend my views to try and please people who endorse CRT or find common ground anymore. You and I have no common ground based off your CRT endorsement alone.  I don't care what you think - and I'm sure that goes both ways. Don't want 'protips' from you - don't give a shit.



> Your work for the census bureau is cute, but I've spent time in the Registrar of Voters at every level of the process, and I can tell you that your viewpoint here is not only misinformed, but hurtful in the extreme and dead wrong.



If you are dealing w/ politics based off feelings, and post no statistics to back your claims, then you will convince nobody. But that's not why you're here.  At every level huh? How old are you? I just retired, and don't need lectures about how the process works. You don't know anything about me but what I've told you. I've done work for the government - mostly in defense but completely - for more years than you've been alive, if I had to make a guess.



> As for riots and violent protests, leftists have been run over, minorities have been murdered in droves, politicians have been threatened, and our own law enforcement has been speaking out for ages that the alt right is a terror threat. Sure, minority on minority crime is a tragedy and is prevalent statistically, but looking at problems objectively and finding solutions is more important than just pointing out skin colour and proclaiming "Solved it, darn darkies but what can you do... but I'm not racist!"



If you get in front of my car while a mob swarms me, I'll run you over too. And my state is fine w/ that. Self defense. The same law enforcement who let people into Congress on Jan 6? That you claim is rife w/ white supremes? Everyone is a white supreme who disagees w/ you. White supreme pizza.

No, you pulled that 'not racist' stuff out of your ass.  I can make objective - young people love that word - I prefer factual -  deductions about you based off what you posted . You are why anyone espousing white supremacy needs to really have a God moment and seriously rethink things.  "dam darkies" ? That's your filthy mind speaking.

Want FBI/crime statistics with actual numbers of who commits crimes, where the guns they use to commit such crimes come from, what types of weapons are used ? Because they don't back up your party's claims about right wing extremism. Nothing does. I am not 'right wing' either. Not a fan.

I think independently.  I voted for Obama twice. Democrat policy in action is what changed my mind.  I vote Republican usually because I am a tournament / competitive marksman and your party knows very little about guns. I'm also one who cares about life in general - did you know roughly half of black pregnancies' were snuffed out in VA? The numbers are not wildly different across states, but they do differ. BLM right?

I grew up in a time when people saw each other as intelligent human beings and we judged each other off merit, not group identity. MLK had a dream similar to this but your line of thinking has nothing to do w/ him, a man of faith - w/ many moral shortcomings - but his vision remains solid and righteous.


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## Dakitten (Jul 27, 2021)

eastwald said:


> I'm not your comrade. I don't bend my views to try and please people who endorse CRT or find common ground anymore. You and I have no common ground based off your CRT endorsement alone.  I don't care what you think - and I'm sure that goes both ways. Don't want 'protips' from you - don't give a shit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anyone has the potential to turn into a comrade at any time, you just have to look past yourself long enough to embrace it! Also, you really should take that tip, because wow... you really are pushing the "that guy" narrative here! But thanks for freeing up your white guilt points by voting for Obama... who was a centrist... that didn't do much for minority rights... oh, and for acknowledging MLK as a great man with a lot of issues and a sliver of a vision convenient to your narrative! Also, "stupid black folk, they have abortions because of skin colour and not economic and social issues!" #notracist 

I'm guessing you haven't looked at other threads you've joined in any detail, I'm happy to provide sources whenever there's something needed. In cases like crazed right wing shootings, I'd make my fingers bleed posting all the murder so I'd rather not travel down the list one gunshot at a time. You're welcome to check the wiki for a sampling of the fun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_right-wing_terrorist_attacks

You've disclosed many statements about yourself across several threads where you poke in with your nonsense, but you're often lacking in sources and high in vitamin crazy. You obviously are a religious fellow of privilege who enjoys right wing activities and expensive toys (guns at the very least) who votes more to the right than the left, but because you've done it at least a couple times you consider yourself an independent free thinker as you stare down your 50s with fear for the future. Congratulations, you're desperately lacking in self awareness.


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## kevin corms (Jul 27, 2021)

This bill would have completely screwed Biden over, I guess he doesn't care since he wont run again. Still so upset we didnt get Bernie. Ill have to look at the bill myself a bit closer, wikipedia has become corporate propaganda in many cases. Some of it is ridiculous, you cant have voting without proving who you are... why would Democrats want this? No other country would leave themselves so vulnerable to fraud, unless the people in power were in control of the fraud.

Im also curious what these vague "ethics" rules will be, just a loophole allowing the democrats to use big tech and their media connections to get rid officials that don't play along?

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Dakitten said:


> Anyone has the potential to turn into a comrade at any time, you just have to look past yourself long enough to embrace it! Also, you really should take that tip, because wow... you really are pushing the "that guy" narrative here! But thanks for freeing up your white guilt points by voting for Obama... who was a centrist... that didn't do much for minority rights... oh, and for acknowledging MLK as a great man with a lot of issues and a sliver of a vision convenient to your narrative! Also, "stupid black folk, they have abortions because of skin colour and not economic and social issues!" #notracist
> 
> I'm guessing you haven't looked at other threads you've joined in any detail, I'm happy to provide sources whenever there's something needed. In cases like crazed right wing shootings, I'd make my fingers bleed posting all the murder so I'd rather not travel down the list one gunshot at a time. You're welcome to check the wiki for a sampling of the fun.
> 
> ...


You don't go outside much do you? Every post I ever read from you is just a bunch of talking points where you don't actually make any point, just fallacy arguments. If you really want to support left wing politics just be quiet, you are the kind of person right wingers would point to in an ad hominem attack.


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## Dakitten (Jul 27, 2021)

kevin corms said:


> This bill would have completely screwed Biden over, I guess he doesn't care since he wont run again. Still so upset we didnt get Bernie. Ill have to look at the bill myself a bit closer, wikipedia has become corporate propaganda in many cases. Some of it is ridiculous, you cant have voting without proving who you are... why would Democrats want this? No other country would leave themselves so vulnerable to fraud, unless the people in power were in control of the fraud.
> 
> Im also curious what these vague "ethics" rules will be, just a loophole allowing the democrats to use big tech and their media connections to get rid officials that don't play along?
> 
> ...



Big talk, silly billy, but even if you or right leaning folk don't like me, it doesn't mean my arguments are invalid. Veritas is a fraud organization that has been made to apologize and pay out money on more than one occasion, CRT is a legitimate field of study that handles the broader issues of racism trickling down to the modern day, and you still need to learn how to cite more than a single source in your replies. Thanks for the cross-thread love, though!


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## Deleted User (Jul 28, 2021)

kevin corms said:


> wikipedia has become corporate propaganda in many cases.


Excuse me...
C-Can I re read that, a-a-am I off my rocker?


kevin corms said:


> * wikipedia has become corporate propaganda* in many cases.


Let me try that again.


kevin corms said:


> *wikipedia has become corporate propaganda* in many cases.


...
*what?*
Yeah I don't know about that chief. Considering that ANYONE can edit it, leads me to believe that it's really a big fat challenge to do that. Since you know _many people use it often and is massive resource_


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## jimbo13 (Jul 28, 2021)

kevin corms said:


> This bill would have completely screwed Biden over, I guess he doesn't care since he wont run again. Still so upset we didnt get Bernie.



Left has a nasty habit of torpedoing traditional liberals, if the GOP primaries were as rigged as the DNC Jeb Bush would of been president.

This dumb ass bill, that would of been struck down without a constitutional amendment was just "Super delegates" for  CA and the east coast.


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## Dakitten (Jul 30, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> Left has a nasty habit of torpedoing traditional liberals, if the GOP primaries were as rigged as the DNC Jeb Bush would of been president.
> 
> This dumb ass bill, that would of been struck down without a constitutional amendment was just "Super delegates" for  CA and the east coast.



This feels a little bit backwards. The east coast has the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida all tending to line up purple at best and deep red otherwise. The pacific ocean, on the other hand, only has three monolith states that are blue-pilled as fluff! You'd think it'd be "super delegates" over there~ Which it kinda should be. The world is a smaller place since the beginning of the new millennium: voting is more sophisticated and faster than ever before, and everyone should have a voice now that technology can utilize it. The right is just heartbroken at the idea that a democracy of the people, determined by actual popular vote, would essentially crush any chance of the party holding onto power, but lucky for them, the mission statement of the USA has been drowned in greed and totalitarianism.


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## Lumstar (Jul 30, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Nobody cares what some partisan "fact checker" (nobody lied or trolled online before pre 2016 of course; that's totally why they are here).
> 
> Explain your view, and defend it yourself.



Fact checking is "partisan" because the right has declared reality their enemy. Acknowledging verifiable historical events and scientific discoveries goes against everything they stand for.


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## jimbo13 (Jul 31, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> Fact checking is "partisan" because the right has declared reality their enemy. Acknowledging verifiable historical events and scientific discoveries goes against everything they stand for.



No fact checkers are partisan because they lie by omission and focus on jokes and hyperbole to censor narratives they dislike and funded by partisans who have an agenda.

I bet they call them "Fact checkers" in China too.


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## notimp (Jul 31, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> No fact checkers are partisan because they lie by omission and focus on jokes and hyperbole to censor narratives they dislike


No, that would be you - actually. See your last posting.


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## Dakitten (Jul 31, 2021)

jimbo13 said:


> No fact checkers are partisan because they lie by omission and focus on jokes and hyperbole to censor narratives they dislike and funded by partisans who have an agenda.
> 
> I bet they call them "Fact checkers" in China too.



Says the man who doesn't read sources, links to "comedy" right wing videos, and refuses to give a shred of empathy for others while using absolutely rubbish memes for an audience of, what, 3 people who live in the same bubble? Maybe a pinch hypocritical there!


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

Lumstar said:


> Fact checking is "partisan" because the right has declared reality their enemy. Acknowledging verifiable historical events and scientific discoveries goes against everything they stand for.



Lol. Where was fact checking pre 2016? Why is it all of a sudden needed?  People are partisan, so yeah, the fact checking sites are all bias as hell. 

I can make up my own mind about stuff, I remember when I first got into finding / writing exploits for software vulnerabilities during college (dinosaur era, people used strcmp() ) and all my friends hated the gov and were anti-censorship. I still talk to some of them - they back IPFS in many cases but want it.. censored. And they love the Feds. 

You are being played by the media into thinking everyone who isn't on your party is your enemy.  Just leave us alone. Growing up the KKK would round up a dozen or so idiots and walk around the capital, the ones today don't even wear coverings - good luck getting a job. I wish the same applied to left-wing terrorists, which is frankly where 99% of the terrorism has been coming from. "b-b-b-ut Jan 7!". They showed up w/ no guns, got let inside by the police and put their shoes on peoples desks. I think a Cabinet was broken. Some moron stole booze-hound's laptop. 

Anyone know who the Weather Underground are/were? They bombed the capital several times, and killed / wounded a lot of people.  In early 2016 a man who supported bernie sanders (irrelevant, crazy people are crazy) shot up a baseball game trying to kill as many Republicans as possible.  

The man who shot Ashlii Babbit was there that day. Interesting footage.

If you trust the government, you don't know history. Rights are taken, never given back, and  those who obsesses over safety to the point they willingly give their rights away deserve neither safety nor rights.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



notimp said:


> No, that would be you - actually. See your last posting.



This is a video game site. You are in an echo chamber. Not many adults here.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



Reual said:


> Excuse me...
> C-Can I re read that, a-a-am I off my rocker?
> 
> Let me try that again.
> ...



It actually is very biased. My Mom is pretty Jewy, and would use this app that alerted her any time Israel was mentioned in a poll. Or when a wiki article was edited talking about them in a negative light. Kind of like the 2016 russian/Macedonian bot farm thing from woodsy drunk chick.


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> It actually is very biased. My Mom is pretty Jewy, and would use this app that alerted her any time Israel was mentioned in a poll. Or when a wiki article was edited talking about them in a negative light. Kind of like the 2016 russian/Macedonian bot farm thing from woodsy drunk chick.


So... in other words. You believe that you know more than the entire internet. If someone makes a factual error, it get's corrected on Wikipedia from another person, or the article in question get's reverted. Your effectively saying "oh well it's pretty biased because I disagree with the 50+ contributors"
that's ludicrous


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

Reual said:


> So... in other words. You believe that you know more than the entire internet. If someone makes a factual error, it get's corrected on Wikipedia from another person, or the article in question get's reverted. Your effectively saying "oh well it's pretty biased because I disagree with the 50+ contributors"
> that's ludicrous



"Wikipedia is biased" != "you believe you know more than the entire Internet". 

You realize, kind of like how you feel that you have to come out on top in this thread of gamers, that people who aim to change certain areas of history, society, etc, do not always care about what is true. They might think what they know to be true, with all the best intentions in mind. 

However it is usually the most persistent, motivated, and opinionated (biased) people who win when it comes to how things are presented on living documents, both online and offline.

Look at the USS Liberty. Look at the King David Hotel bombing article. You seriously think these are fair, and not just borderline fantasy by the people who have the most to lose ? 

My Mom was born in Israel. They actually took classes on editing Wikipedia articles. With some maturity, you will eventually see that not everything you read is true. That doesn't mean all of it isn't.

Only 50ish contributors? That's wrong, but it is far too few, and people with wisdom have far more important things to do than edit an Internet page all day.

The great reset was a "vast right wing conspiracy" last year. Is it now?


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> "Wikipedia is biased" != "you believe you know more than the entire Internet".


People use Wikipedia every day, any one of those people can edit or change the articles usually. There's even talk pages about what adjustments need to be done. Just as easily as one bad actor can change it incorrectly, another can fix it. So therefore, yeah, I can make that, perhaps not the entire internet if you want to be nickpicky, but practically the bulk of it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



eastwald said:


> Only 50ish contributors? That's wrong, but it is far too few, and people with wisdom have far more important things to do than edit an Internet page all day.


I say 50+. Not 50. Because simply put, I didn't know how many people use it. I took what is a gross underestimate and add a plus, since I knew if I just threw out a random number, I'd be wrong. Wikipedia has billions of people who use it (not registered) daily.

  Further more, also false. People with wisdom, who know their shit, do and will edit those pages. It isn't every single historian in existence or some expert on the matter. However it doesn't have to be, since there's a thing called *sources*
Which is why wikipedia generally speaking, especially now a days is fairly decent. Since most claims have to be backed up, and then people will look at that source.


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

Reual said:


> People use Wikipedia every day, any one of those people can edit or change the articles usually. There's even talk pages about what adjustments need to be done. Just as easily as one bad actor can change it incorrectly, another can fix it. So therefore, yeah, I can make that, perhaps not the entire internet if you want to be nickpicky, but practically the bulk of it.



You totally missed the point. Ever tried to edit an article - adding information that is backed by hundreds of sources, only to have it removed seconds later with some bullshit reason? Some people go outside, and can't commit the amount of time it takes to defeat a retraction from a high-producing writer. The more someone produces, specifically on 'touchy' topics, generally the  more biased they are. 

I contracted for government for decades, and you should find out sooner than later just how far groups/governments/media will go to dominate the "truth" on living documents.

But old books are all white supreme pizza history, so they're no good or something? This is how they condition you these days - they tried it on my kids, but they know better to accept things just 'cuz'.


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> You totally missed the point. Ever tried to edit an article - adding information that is backed by hundreds of sources, only to have it removed seconds later with some bullshit reason? Some people go outside, and can't commit the amount of time it takes to defeat a retraction from a high-producing writer. The more someone produces, specifically on 'touchy' topics, generally the more biased they are.


If your linking sources from the likes of fox news. who has a really poor accuracy score with their reporting. than yeah, of course it's going to get shutdown. On the other hand, if it ends up wrongly getting thrown out. People can undo a change such as that through versioning. Again, as simple as it can be thrown out, it's just as simple to fix.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Now that you brought it up, what page exactly where you trying to change? Would you mind linking me those sources?


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## Xzi (Aug 20, 2021)

Reual said:


> Now that you brought it up, what page exactly where you trying to change? Would you mind linking me those sources?





eastwald said:


> But old books are all white supreme pizza history, so they're no good or something? This is how they condition you these days - they tried it on my kids, but they know better to accept things just 'cuz'.


Dude was trying to use Jim Crow era history textbooks as a source for his edits.  Of _course_ Wikipedia rejected that shit in a split second, lol.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 20, 2021)

Flame war removed, everyone participating in it was warned accordingly. Senior members _should_ know how to behave - if you can't keep your cool then perhaps it's time to walk away from the keyboard for a moment. Responding to posts that violate the ToS is not an excuse to violate it yourself - I am perfectly happy to slap all three of you, regardless of who started it.


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## Deleted User (Aug 20, 2021)

Go ahead big guy - I have 2 other accounts. I like how you left their last posts up, misquoting me. You're an anti-semite and partisan and in no place to be a moderator. Unlmited emails / IPs has been a thing for a long time.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 20, 2021)

eastwald said:


> Go ahead big guy - I have 2 other accounts. I like how you left their last posts up, misquoting me. You're an anti-semite and partisan and in no place to be a moderator. Unlmited emails / IPs has been a thing for a long time.


I've left up posts that are not in violation of our rules board, meaning ones that don't include flaming. Thank you for confirming that you also have additional accounts, which is a separate ToS violation - one which you're now getting suspended for, pending further investigation. Cheerio!


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## KingVamp (Aug 20, 2021)

Foxi4 said:


> Thank you for confirming that you also have additional accounts, which is a separate ToS violation


I honestly can't tell if he didn't know about this or simple didn't care.


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## Foxi4 (Aug 20, 2021)

KingVamp said:


> I honestly can't tell if he didn't know about this or simple didn't care.


Some people are not as smart as they think they are. Many such cases.


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## tabzer (Aug 20, 2021)

It was great while it lasted.  Now there is no opposition.  I don't see the point of going kamikaze... for this.

Maybe you should tag in Foxi.


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