# Nintendo once again proves that, as much as I love them... they're pretty awful sometimes.



## Muffins (Nov 16, 2015)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/16/nintendo-wins-piracy-court-ruling

What a victory! Going after those little shop owners, that'll stop piracy_ forever._


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 16, 2015)

I am actually ok with Nintendo doing this. It's not like Nintendo attacked them for something completely legal, they went after them for selling products that allowed pirated games. Sony and Microsoft would have done the same thing if they found stores doing this.


----------



## migles (Nov 16, 2015)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> I am actually ok with Nintendo doing this. It's not like Nintendo attacked them for something completely legal, they went after them for selling products that allowed pirated games. Sony and Microsoft would have done the same thing if they found stores doing this.



same opinion.
i am a pirate and i love to pirate.
but if someone does this kind of business (make profit from a product to allow privacy on a new console), they know the risk, and it's their problem. it's not a surprise that someday the police comes at your door or sends you a letter..
and i really hoped gatebait team had a police visit, but so far there is no news about that...


----------



## Joe88 (Nov 16, 2015)

Doubt that will ever happen since its in china


----------



## RevPokemon (Nov 16, 2015)

They had legal rights to do this action. Might as well be angry with every ESA company.


----------



## insidexdeath (Nov 16, 2015)

didnt know it's awful to protect your own product from piracy.


----------



## RHOPKINS13 (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm not a pirate, but I'm going to go ahead and say this was a douche move. Like it or not, there are perfectly valid, legal reasons for using these devices (i.e. backups). Which we legally have the right to make. I don't think Nintendo should be able to sue a company simply for selling these devices. Now, if a company decided to start selling these devices, along with a microSD card loaded with pirated games, then by all means they're guilty of piracy. But for just selling a flash cartridge or a modchip? No way.


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 16, 2015)

RHOPKINS13 said:


> I'm not a pirate, but I'm going to go ahead and say this was a douche move. Like it or not, there are perfectly valid, legal reasons for using these devices (i.e. backups). Which we legally have the right to make. I don't think Nintendo should be able to sue a company simply for selling these devices. Now, if a company decided to start selling these devices, along with a microSD card loaded with pirated games, then by all means they're guilty of piracy. But for just selling a flash cartridge or a modchip? No way.


Actually personal back ups are considered a legal grey area and regardless it's up to you to prove you are using the tool for your own personal back ups. Either way, they were selling the tools that could be used for piracy and that's all the concerns Nintendo and it's their right to protect their products.


----------



## RevPokemon (Nov 16, 2015)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Actually personal back ups are considered a legal grey area and regardless it's up to you to prove you are using the tool for your own personal back ups. Either way, they were selling the tools that could be used for piracy and that's all the concerns Nintendo and it's their right to protect their products.


Like I  said it is under ESA beliefs of the actions Nintendo has taken.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 16, 2015)

RHOPKINS13 said:


> I'm not a pirate, but I'm going to go ahead and say this was a douche move. Like it or not, there are perfectly valid, legal reasons for using these devices (i.e. backups). Which we legally have the right to make. I don't think Nintendo should be able to sue a company simply for selling these devices. Now, if a company decided to start selling these devices, along with a microSD card loaded with pirated games, then by all means they're guilty of piracy. But for just selling a flash cartridge or a modchip? No way.



Nicely said. Anyone who says Nintendo has the "right" to harm this innocent company is part of the problem. We began freely giving away our rights decades ago, and people just stuck their heads in the sand, just as you see them doing in this very topic.
It hits close to home with me. A very good friend of mine named Nils ran a company called Visoly that marketed development tools for the GBA. Because of Nintendo's scummery, Visoly ended up going under and Nils disappeared. I wish I knew where he went, because I want to know he's doing all right. I want to know he's safe and well. But I don't, because Nintendo and its army of rights-destroying lawyers felt it neccesary to ruin this one company.


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Nov 16, 2015)

Exactly what countries does this affect?


----------



## RevPokemon (Nov 16, 2015)

ShadowOne333 said:


> Exactly what countries does this affect?


EU countries

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



doom127 said:


> Nicely said. Anyone who says Nintendo has the "right" to harm this innocent company is part of the problem. We began freely giving away our rights decades ago, and people just stuck their heads in the sand, just as you see them doing in this very topic.
> It hits close to home with me. A very good friend of mine named Nils ran a company called Visoly that marketed development tools for the GBA. Because of Nintendo's scummery, Visoly ended up going under and Nils disappeared. I wish I knew where he went, because I want to know he's doing all right. I want to know he's safe and well. But I don't, because Nintendo and its army of rights-destroying lawyers felt it neccesary to ruin this one company.


In this case is it right for nintendo to sue gateway if the gw team does not show how to play copy righted roms?


----------



## Vipera (Nov 16, 2015)

I don't feel like posting here anymore. But, since this happened in my city and since I know the company (9net), I might as well give my 2 cents.



doom127 said:


> http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/16/nintendo-wins-piracy-court-ruling
> 
> What a victory! Going after those little shop owners, that'll stop piracy_ forever._


What a great post! Going after companies that try to protect their business by going after those who make a profit from others' hard work.


Anyway, the whole situation is a few years old, starting from 2011 and coming to an end just now. The italian law has always punished piracy for profit (at first it was just monetary profit, now it's generic profit, but it changes nothing here) but it has been very lenient in the past. By the time the PS1 mods were out, you could buy modchips and pirated games either "under the table" or by illegal baracchini in the streets. The two companies Nintendo sued sold DS and Wii mods, probably flashcards and Wii modchips, that the company always stated how they only intended the mods to enable the consoles to play music, movies and such. I am very tired and I couldn't find anywhere that the company might have been selling pirated games as well. If someone wants to take a look, I'm leaving the documentation at the end of this post. If they got in trouble by selling pirated games, then Nintendo is right. If they got in trouble just by selling modchips and flashcards after the EU statement about flashcards, this is still wrong but I don't think that warrants for the law. It's not like they were the only ones selling flashcards here, they were very common (I even got one from an italian website very long ago) until the EU statement, then they were still around, but they all came from places like China and such, even though the websites and companies were still italian. They might have gotten in trouble for something as stupid as buying them in large stocks and keeping them in Italy. But, by 2911, pretty much everyone knew about flashcards, even parents that knew nothing about hacking, or even technology, with a lot of dishonest stores asking money to put games on flashcards.


2012 article http://eulawradar.com/case-c-35512-...-game-piracy-or-an-unjust-market-foreclosure/ (english)
2014 articles http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=e4ed7da6-6f3d-4275-8124-33159d8d50d8 (english) and http://www.repmag.it/rubriche/copyr...izia-europea-nel-caso-nintendo-vs-pc-box.html (italian)
The official statement http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?docid=146686&doclang=EN (english)



I'll stick around here if you have further questions.

PS: I'm not linking more italian sources because last time some dumb journalist wrote about someone selling more than 300 "fake DSs", failing to realize that they were imported from Japan. And this was on newspaper, ugh.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 16, 2015)

Given that your overly long post began with a base untruth in the first place, you can take your cents and find someone else to bother, thank you very much. You can say what you want about your views on piracy, but the lame excuse that Nintendo or any other company is "protecting" themselves in any way is just that- an excuse. They aren't "protecting" themselves or anyone else. They weren't doing it when they used their near-monopoly to manipulate the market during the 80s and early 90s. They weren't doing it when they implemented region lock on handhelds during the last generation cycle. This is all about control, and it always has been.


----------



## Arras (Nov 16, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Given that your overly long post began with a base untruth in the first place, you can take your cents and find someone else to bother, thank you very much. You can say what you want about your views on piracy, but the lame excuse that Nintendo or any other company is "protecting" themselves in any way is just that- an excuse. They aren't "protecting" themselves or anyone else. They weren't doing it when they used their near-monopoly to manipulate the market during the 80s and early 90s. They weren't doing it when they implemented region lock on handhelds during the last generation cycle. This is all about control, and it always has been.


Piracy wasn't nearly as much of an issue in the NES days. Also, didn't they do things like this in the DS days too?


----------



## ShadowOne333 (Nov 16, 2015)

That doesn't mean you won't be able to order them online anymore, does it?


----------



## TheCasketMan (Nov 16, 2015)

Poor Italy, but at least the 3DS and Wii U will sell millions of more units/games now! /s


----------



## Vipera (Nov 16, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Given that your overly long post began with a base untruth in the first place, you can take your cents and find someone else to bother, thank you very much. You can say what you want about your views on piracy, but the lame excuse that Nintendo or any other company is "protecting" themselves in any way is just that- an excuse. They aren't "protecting" themselves or anyone else. They weren't doing it when they used their near-monopoly to manipulate the market during the 80s and early 90s. They weren't doing it when they implemented region lock on handhelds during the last generation cycle. This is all about control, and it always has been.


Boohoo! :'(
If I'm selling stuff I made and someone else is copying said stuff I made to sell his illegal copies at a very low price I have every single right to defend myself. Even most of the people that are pro-piracy are still against those parasites that sell pirated games.

Also, judging by what you've just written, you sound like a misinformed person, so here you go http://www.1up.com/news/day-history-nintendo-wages-war

Have a good read.


----------



## McHaggis (Nov 16, 2015)

Boo frickin hoo. And the goal isn't to stop piracy forever, it's to stem the growth by setting precedents that selling goods that enable piracy will get you in serious trouble, small business or not.


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 16, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Nicely said. Anyone who says Nintendo has the "right" to harm this innocent company is part of the problem. We began freely giving away our rights decades ago, and people just stuck their heads in the sand, just as you see them doing in this very topic.
> It hits close to home with me. A very good friend of mine named Nils ran a company called Visoly that marketed development tools for the GBA. Because of Nintendo's scummery, Visoly ended up going under and Nils disappeared. I wish I knew where he went, because I want to know he's doing all right. I want to know he's safe and well. But I don't, because Nintendo and its army of rights-destroying lawyers felt it neccesary to ruin this one company.


I'm sorry, but do you understand how the laws works? Selling products like this is and always has been against the law because it's a violation of copyright laws. As for Visoly, they weren't some company making innocent products, they were making flashcards used for piracy, Nintendo had all the right in the world to defend themselves from this product. Nintendo is still a business and they are still needing a profit, you make it out like they enjoy sending their lawyers out to sue people. They don't, no company does. Why? Because it's costly and they gain very little out of it. These cases are not good for business.
Nintendo isn't trying to stop piracy forever, if they were, they would target sites like GBATemp that provide tools and guides for piracy, but they don't. Nintendo is just trying to stop someone who was breaking copyright laws. You are acting like this person was some innocent small business owner, when the truth is, they were criminals. They broke the law and Nintendo took action.


----------



## BurningDesire (Nov 17, 2015)

See all that money the Wii U is making... Piracy is stopping it! There for stopping nintendo!​Nintendo as recently won the right to fight against pirates in a Italian court ruling. Apparently when researching to write this article I found they also got a court ruling to fight against pirates in the U.S I am sure Nintendo is very pleased with these outcomes. However Sellers such as gateway and sky3ds are not so happy my guess would be with this incoming news. As the sellers from the U.S and Italy could face criminal charges. I mean while this is a good thing for Nintendo it is also a bad thing. They will no longer loose money on games but they might *emphasis on might* start loosing money on consoles because why would pirates buy that console if they can get stuff for free? I say that because it did happen before with Sony. So I guess lets see if this plays out how Nintendo thought it would. I am personally pleased. I support Nintendo so I am glad they stopped these pirates I mean by stealing a game your basically stealing $40 from Nintendo. C'mon guys!

Source


----------



## Celice (Nov 17, 2015)

Red3agle said:


> I mean by stealing a game your basically stealing $40 from Nintendo. C'mon guys!



I have a ROM of Pokemon Rainbow

I copy it two times on my computer. 

I do this a million times.

Now I do this another million times.

How much money did I steal from Nintendo?


----------



## BurningDesire (Nov 17, 2015)

Celice said:


> I have a ROM of Pokemon Rainbow
> 
> I copy it two times on my computer.
> 
> ...


$4,000,000 congratulations. Assuming the game was like $2


----------



## nintendarium (Nov 17, 2015)

This console gen is piracy free.
3ds probably will not be saved, but being nx portable probably heavy based on cloud  could really be a big hit to easy piracy for parents ,maybe not for people that want pirate things, but easy modes to get piracy probably are gone forever.
Despite any ruling in court Sony Nintendo and ms already won on the tech


----------



## ody81 (Nov 17, 2015)

Celice said:


> I have a ROM of Pokemon Rainbow
> 
> I copy it two times on my computer.
> 
> ...



Bugger all, anyone who wants your rom wasn't gonna pay Ninty anyway. Shit, you might even make Ninty some money helping more people see and try out Pokemon Rainbow.


----------



## Monty Kensicle (Nov 17, 2015)

ody81 said:


> Bugger all, anyone who wants your rom wasn't gonna pay Ninty anyway. Shit, you might even make Ninty some money helping more people see and try out Pokemon Rainbow.


Isn't Pokemon Raibow a ROM hack?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Nov 17, 2015)

Red3agle said:


> $4,000,000 congratulations. Assuming the game was like $2


Get down from that cloud, be sure to place your feet over solid ground please.


----------



## mgrev (Nov 17, 2015)

there always was, and there will alway be piracy


----------



## morvoran (Nov 17, 2015)

It's good to see people with such high morals expressing their views on this site.  It's great that Red3agle has never pirated any games themselves nor have they ever bought a used game, never borrowed a game from a friend, or never loaned out any games.  They always support Nintendo by purchasing their games brand new or digitally at full price.  Good for them!!


----------



## spoonm (Nov 17, 2015)

"Nintendo is tackling piracy" - More news at 11. /s

Aren't people singling this out? It's not like Nintendo hadn't fought piracy before. They get flashcarts to be illegal in some places, etc. I think people are making a big deal out of an ordinary occasion.

Piracy will happen in one way or another. Eventually you'll be able to play illegal copies of games on a platform. It might be long gone from the market once that happens, but I'm confident someone will keep trying until they appear in a news article like this: "Remember that old and dead handheld, the PS Vita? Someone got backups to work on it. Here's a quick Q&A we had with them..."


----------



## BurningDesire (Nov 17, 2015)

well 2x1,000,000, is 2,000,000 x one more is oh wait. fuck my math skils
@sarkwalvein


----------



## DarkShinigami (Nov 17, 2015)

now forgive me for quoting Jurassic Park but "life finds a way" never thought id use the quote for piracy but uh.... there it is


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

morvoran said:


> It's good to see people with such high morals expressing their views on this site.  It's great that the OP has never pirated any games themselves nor have they ever bought a used game, never borrowed a game from a friend, or never loaned out any games.  They always support Nintendo by purchasing their games brand new or digitally at full price.  Good for them!!



Nintendo would see me dragged away in chains for the one miniscule contribution I've made to the homebrew scene.


----------



## Nirmonculus (Nov 17, 2015)

Good for Ninty, in any case... still not gonna buy a Wii U.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

Nirmonculus said:


> Good for Ninty



That's not nice, wanting to see a man dragged away in chains for colorizing a ROM.


----------



## LittleFlame (Nov 17, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Nicely said. Anyone who says Nintendo has the "right" to harm this innocent company is part of the problem. We began freely giving away our rights decades ago, and people just stuck their heads in the sand, just as you see them doing in this very topic.
> It hits close to home with me. A very good friend of mine named Nils ran a company called Visoly that marketed development tools for the GBA. Because of Nintendo's scummery, Visoly ended up going under and Nils disappeared. I wish I knew where he went, because I want to know he's doing all right. I want to know he's safe and well. But I don't, because Nintendo and its army of rights-destroying lawyers felt it neccesary to ruin this one company.


hey this reminds me of the story of becky! here's a reminder for those who don't know


Spoiler


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

Nils is not Taylor Swift.
Unless he had a secret I didn't know about.
He was, on the other hand, nice enough to provide me with several free linkers to assist in an article I was writing about handheld homebrew development.

You can find it if you're smart enough. 

Are you?

Then you should be able to find it.


----------



## LittleFlame (Nov 17, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Nils is not Taylor Swift.
> Unless he had a secret I didn't know about.
> He was, on the other hand, nice enough to provide me with several free linkers to assist in an article I was writing about handheld homebrew development.
> 
> ...


i said "Reminds me of" saying the story is pretty badly written and comes off as unbelievable at best we should get back to subject though
Piracy is bad m'kay?


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

At best you should stop talking to me, because quite frankly everything you're saying deserves a response that would get me warned.

This site has an ignore button, right?

Think I'm going to try it out. Right now.

*done*

Ahhhh, that felt GOOD. I mean, like awesomely good. 
Away with the garbage.


----------



## LittleFlame (Nov 17, 2015)

doom127 said:


> At best you should stop talking to me, because quite frankly everything you're saying deserves a response that would get me warned.
> 
> This site has an ignore button, right?
> 
> ...


when you hate getting proved wrong and you just start insulting
gg mate gg


----------



## morvoran (Nov 17, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Nintendo would see me dragged away in chains for the one miniscule contribution I've made to the homebrew scene.



My post was originally directed towards @Red3agle.

It seems that their thread was combined with your thread.


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 17, 2015)

morvoran said:


> It's good to see people with such high morals expressing their views on this site.  It's great that Red3agle has never pirated any games themselves nor have they ever bought a used game, never borrowed a game from a friend, or never loaned out any games.  They always support Nintendo by purchasing their games brand new or digitally at full price.  Good for them!!


There's a big difference between borrowing your friend's game and actively selling modified systems to be used for piracy.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

morvoran said:


> My post was originally directed towards @Red3agle.
> 
> It seems that their thread was combined with your thread.



Ah, I see. That would explain the recent surge in posts in this thread then. 

I *love *our moderators and admin staff.


----------



## Etkar.H (Nov 17, 2015)

Why so salty?


----------



## morvoran (Nov 17, 2015)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> There's a big difference between borrowing your friend's game and actively selling modified systems to be used for piracy.



Yes, there is a difference between selling modified systems and borrowing a game, but that has nothing to do with red3agle's post or mine. 

Red3agle said they were against piracy because "by stealing a game your basically stealing $40 from Nintendo".  When the topic of supporting developers comes up, people forget that borrowing a game, buying used games, and pirating a game all support the developers the same amount ($0).

I just find it hypocritical to put "pirating" in the same boat as "stealing" from the developers when the same person has no issue with second hand games.


----------



## Subtle Demise (Nov 17, 2015)

Vipera said:


> Going after companies that try to protect their business by going after those who make a profit from others' hard work.


Nintendo hasn't actually done active development in years, NoJ is a publisher and hardware division and NoE and NoA are just PR fronts for those regions. So "hard work" is hiring a bunch of scummy corporate lawyers to sue people who can't possibly fight back out of every red cent they have.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

Subtle Demise said:


> Nintendo hasn't actually done active development in years, NoJ is a publisher and hardware division and NoE and NoA are just PR fronts for those regions. So "hard work" is hiring a bunch of scummy corporate lawyers to sue people who can't possibly fight back out of every red cent they have.



Well said.


----------



## ody81 (Nov 17, 2015)

Monty Kensicle said:


> Isn't Pokemon Raibow a ROM hack?



I think it was a hypothetical.


----------



## duwen (Nov 17, 2015)

Red3agle said:


> ...I mean by stealing a game your basically stealing $40 from Nintendo.



I agree - by physically stealing a game cartridge/disk you are depriving them of their money.
But piracy is not 'stealing' a physical copy of the game - it's digitally duplicating a physical copy that has already been purchased.


----------



## BurningDesire (Nov 17, 2015)

duwen said:


> I agree - by physically stealing a game cartridge/disk you are depriving them of their money.
> But piracy is not 'stealing' a physical copy of the game - it's digitally duplicating a physical copy that has already been purchased.


yes, However that is still $40 Nintendo could of got. Which they didn't because you got it for free. In my mind that is still stealing


----------



## duwen (Nov 17, 2015)

Red3agle said:


> yes, However that is still $40 Nintendo could of got. Which they didn't because you got it for free. In my mind that is still stealing


If I never intended on buying it they still get exactly the same amount.


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (Nov 17, 2015)

Selling piracy comes at a cost and can't really fault Nintendo here.


----------



## 0x40 (Nov 17, 2015)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Selling piracy comes at a cost and can't really fault Nintendo here.


Unless they were selling flashcards with games pre-installed on them, this is by no means "selling piracy." What most flashcards do is bypass DRM, but that in itself is not piracy. Distributing backups is piracy, but using legitimate backups and homebrew is not. There's a big difference.


----------



## ric. (Nov 17, 2015)

My personal policy is to pirate games and then buy them if I like them. Nothing beats a physical copy in my opinion.
That said, I do consider myself a pirate and feel that trying to justify piracy is silly. Is it wrong? Yes, of course. Do I care? Not really.
I can't be mad at Nintendo for protecting their property - especially if someone else is profiting from selling devices that hurt their sales. If they can sue, make some money back, and set a precedent, then good for them.
I wonder what devices the article is talking about though - they show pictures of Wii U games and talk about Wii U sales, and I find that a little strange. It's not like there's any Wii U modchips or anything, at least as far as I know.


----------



## BurningDesire (Nov 17, 2015)

ric. said:


> My personal policy is to pirate games and then buy them if I like them. Nothing beats a physical copy in my opinion.
> That said, I do consider myself a pirate and feel that trying to justify piracy is silly. Is it wrong? Yes, of course. Do I care? Not really.
> I can't be mad at Nintendo for protecting their property - especially if someone else is profiting from selling devices that hurt their sales. If they can sue, make some money back, and set a precedent, then good for them.
> I wonder what devices the article is talking about though - they show pictures of Wii U games and talk about Wii U sales, and I find that a little strange. It's not like there's any Wii U modchips or anything, at least as far as I know.


I  prefer the term extended demos lol as I kinda do the same thing.


----------



## Demifiend (Nov 17, 2015)

I don't have a policy for pirate or shit, like, you can say "I pirated this game, and i played it for 30 minutes, i really liked it!, then i bought the game", this is nice, like, i can't refuse this, maybe some companies can't get Demos done, but a person wants to see how a game is before buying it, but here's the thing, would you wait for a console to be hacked, then hack it, and then use piracy to prove how a game is?, that would take longer than necessary but it's worth the effort though, can't deny that.

It is incredible that some people believe that "Oh no, you deprived Nintendo of 40 Dollars, you're the Devil", ah yes, do you think every country is USA?, do you think Nintendo gives a shit about countries that aren't located on EU, NA , KR, China (kinda) and JP?, *NO, *they don't, all you can look for videogames are imported from other countries + they will also be outdated games with expensive prices.

And even for the people on those regions, it is wrong to assume that every citizen of the entire continent of Europe is able to buy videogames, let alone NA, where people have to pay for Food, House, Water, Electricity, Studies, maintenance, etc. like, taking that out of the question, unless you're really rich, the amount left of money is pretty low, you wouldn't even buy a 3DS game with that.

What about the time needed to buy a game too, or games that are really weird and hard to find?, Cave Story 3D (with everything) costs 200 to 300 dollars, which is insane for a Nintendo 3DS game, and is also really rare, the only way a sane (and normal) person would play this thing is if they download the game from the Internet.

You're in a site about piracy, like, yes, you can't really sugarcoat this site anymore, while the thread of "Homebrew" is debatable as if it should be among the "Piracy" things or not, or that Gbatemp has some other nice things too, like it's active community and interesting threads at times, it doesn't mean that you can go all around saying "Guys, You're stealing maney from Nintendo" when the company, already has enough money.

Why would you pay Nintendo more if they have a shit ton right now?, and even then, i repeat, piracy is not stealing, is _copying, _which is different, Nintendo wasn't going to get any money from me anyway, but i have the right to use the Hardware i bought from them to do the shit i want to do, since it's my right to modify it, as that is freedom of speech and actions.

As for the thread itself, sorry OP, but i agree with other users regarding this, Nintendo has totally the right to do so, specially when they market towards regions where their own buildings are, they are doing quite the right thing and in fact, i think they have been patient to us, Nintendo could strike Gbatemp if they felt like it, and put this site out of business as they are giving tools to hack Nintendo machines, but they don't, you know why?, because they don't need to target that.

Selling things that are illegal, is naturally, illegal for both the person selling those things, and for Copyright Terms, they aren't being awful here, they are being real, and for a company like Nintendo, i think they have been way too nice to us, being thankful that Square Enix isn't a First Party Developer, if not, they could have shut down any site even mentioning a console of them.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 17, 2015)

You're not _sorry._


----------



## The Catboy (Nov 17, 2015)

I just no


morvoran said:


> Yes, there is a difference between selling modified systems and borrowing a game, but that has nothing to do with red3agle's post or mine.
> 
> Red3agle said they were against piracy because "by stealing a game your basically stealing $40 from Nintendo".  When the topic of supporting developers comes up, people forget that borrowing a game, buying used games, and pirating a game all support the developers the same amount ($0).
> 
> I just find it hypocritical to put "pirating" in the same boat as "stealing" from the developers when the same person has no issue with second hand games.


I just noticed they merged the thread


----------



## Minox (Nov 17, 2015)

No matter what your stance on piracy is - making money off piracy is illegal.


----------



## grossaffe (Nov 17, 2015)

let's set aside, for a second, the question of a pirate's morals.  What is it about going after piracy that makes Nintendo awful?  Should they be expected to sit there and let people pirate their games?


----------



## Saiyan Lusitano (Nov 17, 2015)

Minox said:


> No matter what your stance on piracy is - making money off piracy is illegal.


Piracy is no different than stolen good. Neither belong to the thief to actually be selling them.


----------



## p1ngpong (Nov 17, 2015)

Hey man I love you. I love you so much that I am going to pay a random Chinese person to help me steal from you. I am so proud of myself for doing that! I am a pirate yargh, what an INCREDIBLE accomplishment! What? You called the cops and got that Chinese person arrested? You fucking asshole! Brb going on an internet forum to cry now!


----------



## osaka35 (Nov 17, 2015)

Crystal the Glaceon said:


> Actually personal back ups are considered a legal grey area and regardless it's up to you to prove you are using the tool for your own personal back ups. Either way, they were selling the tools that could be used for piracy and that's all the concerns Nintendo and it's their right to protect their products.


Legal grey area only in precedence, not in the words of the law. If taken to court, the validity of the written law is what would be contested, not if it applies are not. Only MP3s(I believe) have been made exempt and are legal to back up. Nothing else, though most people think that particular ruling made *all* backups legal. It didn't. 

Now for me guessing. I suspect they don't want to take such things to court in case a judge rules against them and add more exceptions. It's in their best interest to keep the law as it is for legal leverage for various reasons.


----------



## TecXero (Nov 17, 2015)

I can understand taking legal action over modchips. Their only purpose is piracy. Now if it was something that allowed homebrew or people to play their own backups from a HDD, then I'd be annoyed over it. As it is, it's understandable. Nintendo does some pretty terrible things, but I don't think this is one of them.


----------



## FAST6191 (Nov 17, 2015)

grossaffe said:


> let's set aside, for a second, the question of a pirate's morals.  What is it about going after piracy that makes Nintendo awful?  Should they be expected to sit there and let people pirate their games?



I have not read the specifics here and judging by the other comments it is not likely to be what I am about to cover, however various companies have often been seen to right roughshod over the legal system and get some interesting precedents set that might be harder to undo later and generally be pretty abusive (you will not get far representing yourself and a lawyer does not come cheap, a good lawyer is even worse -- money counts for a lot in the legal world and you can drown people easily enough with legal motion). To that end much like every patent case does not necessarily involve a patent troll then not every legal case brought by a big IP holder is a simple part of the game.


----------



## Nirmonculus (Nov 17, 2015)

It doesn't really matter what we think about what Nintendo did. It's not going to reverse their decision, they did what they thought they had to do. Yes, for those in the business of piracy, it's a bummer, but that's why they're pirates, they shouldn't be daunted by things like this, life as a pirate have always had risks harharharhar!

I'm not siding with Nintendo here but this isn't an unusual thing to do when you know your products are being pirated left and right. It's terrible for those in business of piracy so they just have to be sneaky and innovative in their deals now.
I just want to accept that things like this happen instead of whine about it. It's not the end of piracy anyway.


----------



## ov3rkill (Nov 18, 2015)

Well, Nintendo has the right to do it. Besides, making money out of piracy is definitely not a good thing.


----------



## Vipera (Nov 19, 2015)

Subtle Demise said:


> Nintendo hasn't actually done active development in years, NoJ is a publisher and hardware division and NoE and NoA are just PR fronts for those regions. So "hard work" is hiring a bunch of scummy corporate lawyers to sue people who can't possibly fight back out of every red cent they have.


Yeah, fuck them for investing their money on games, right?
Some DS games had no chance because of flashcards. Games like Solatorobo and Dementium got a ton of downloads from warez websites but they sold like crap because they didn't have a famous name. If companies like Nintendo don't do something, the devs will go elsewhere.


----------



## Demifiend (Nov 19, 2015)

Saiyan Lusitano said:


> Piracy is no different than stolen good. Neither belong to the thief to actually be selling them.



It is different, when you steal something, you're taking a thing from a person, an object that has a location on the space, it has weight, height, form, and a size, you're robbing something, an *object, *a thing that cannot be replaced that easily without spending more money for another one, piracy of any kind (music, movies, books, videogames) is not taking a physical object of any kind, is just *copying *a file, to be stored on an specific Hard Drive, Pendrive, etc. but you aren't taking anything from the developers or a store, you're just simply playing the game by copying it.

Let's say, if i were to stole a car from you, you would have to buy another one since the existent product is long gone by my hands, when i pirate a digital file, you aren't taking anything, as those are digital files, digital files are on everywhere, and if i, for example, hack my Wii U in order to play backups, I ain't taking anything from anybody, i'm just playing a game with my own methods, Nintendo isn't going to receive money from me, but i have the right to hack my console since the Hardware is mine, i can do it whatever i want with it, and since games are digital files, naturally, the risk (or potential) for anything existent to be hacked is, pretty damn high.

As they are things that you can't touch physically, only download it, and use it with certain devices, and as such, if i were to play a videogame pirated, i was going to play it without a care in the world, also the "But the Developers put so much work!", when you're a developer of any kind, either one with experience making your 20th game or a new one with it's first game, you have to take account something basic, you're publishing something digital, you're taking the risk for your game to be hacked, a Dev can't expect his/her games to not be hacked, because if they aren't prepared for that, they shouldn't be videogame developers to begin with.


----------



## ric. (Nov 19, 2015)

Demifiend said:


> It is different, when you stole something, you're taking something from a person that has a location on the space, it has weight, height, form, and a size, you're robbing something, an *object, *a thing that cannot be replaced that easily without spending more money for another one, piracy of any kind (music, movies, books, videogames) is not taking a physical object of any kind, is just *copying *a file, to be stored on an specific Hard Drive, Pendrive, etc. but you aren't taking anything from the developers or a store, you're just simply playing the game by copying it.
> 
> Let's say, if i were to stole a car from you, you would have to buy another one since the existent product is long gone by my hands, when i pirate a digital file, you aren't taking anything, as those are digital files, digital files are on everywhere, and if i, for example, hack my Wii U in order to play backups, I ain't taking anything from anybody, i'm just playing a game with my own methods, Nintendo isn't going to receive money from me, but i have the right to hack my console since the Hardware is mine, i can do it whatever i want with it, and since games are digital files, naturally, the risk (or potential) for anything existent to be hacked is, pretty damn high.
> 
> As they are things that you can't touch physically, only download it, and use it with certain devices, and as such, if i were to play a videogame pirated, i was going to play it without a care in the world, also the "But the Developers put so much work!", when you're a developer of any kind, either one with experience making your 20th game or a new one with it's first game, you have to take account something basic, you're publishing something digital, you're taking the risk for your game to be hacked, a Dev can't expect his/her games to not be hacked, because if they aren't prepared for that, they shouldn't be videogame developers to begin with.


What do you call it when the company is selling said digital copies, though? You may not be "stealing" the physical cart, but you are making an unauthorized copy of the data Nintendo distributes for a price, and as such are getting said data for free, thus denying Nintendo of the money they would've gotten had you bought the game legitimately. Sure, you're not stealing per se, but it's incredibly disingenious of you to assume you're not hurting the company in one way or the other by obtaining their product without paying.

Saying Nintendo should expect to be hacked just because they distribute their games digitally is the typical "She's asking for it, look at what she's wearing" logical fallacy. Just because I forgot to lock my door at night doesn't give a thief permission to enter my house and steal my stuff.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 19, 2015)

> Saying Nintendo should expect to be hacked just because they distribute their games digitally is the typical "She's asking for it, look at what she's wearing" logical fallacy



Please don't equate piracy/hacking/Nintendo/anything at all/ with rape in my topic.

Please?


----------



## sarkwalvein (Nov 19, 2015)

ric. said:


> What do you call it when the company is selling said digital copies, though? You may not be "stealing" the physical cart, but you are making an unauthorized copy of the data Nintendo distributes for a price, and as such are getting said data for free, thus denying Nintendo of the money they would've gotten had you bought the game legitimately. Sure, you're not stealing per se, but it's incredibly disingenious of you to assume you're not hurting the company in one way or the other by obtaining their product without paying.
> 
> Saying Nintendo should expect to be hacked just because they distribute their games digitally is the typical "She's asking for it, look at what she's wearing" logical fallacy. Just because I forgot to lock my door at night doesn't give a thief permission to enter my house and steal my stuff.


You call it piracy, fraud, digital theft perhaps... I'm no lawyer... it is a crime, but it is not stealing, the same as murder is a crime but it also is not stealing.


doom127 said:


> Please don't equate piracy/hacking/Nintendo/anything at all/ with rape in my topic.
> 
> Please?


If they mix up pirating with stealing I can see how they can even put raping into the same basket.


----------



## McHaggis (Nov 19, 2015)

Subtle Demise said:


> Nintendo hasn't actually done active development in years, NoJ is a publisher and hardware division and NoE and NoA are just PR fronts for those regions. So "hard work" is hiring a bunch of scummy corporate lawyers to sue people who can't possibly fight back out of every red cent they have.


A lot of people — including you — seem to be missing the fact that Nintendo have an obligation to curb piracy, not just for their own games but also for their licensees.  It wouldn't make sense for a single publisher or developer to go after a company selling system-compromising hardware.  Whether Nintendo have done any development or not does not make them any less justified for targeting modchip/flashcard sellers.


----------



## ric. (Nov 19, 2015)

doom127 said:


> Please don't equate piracy/hacking/Nintendo/anything at all/ with rape in my topic.
> 
> Please?


I love how you don't actually quote me so I don't get notified, but sure. It is the same kind of fucked up logic though.



sarkwalvein said:


> If they mix up pirating with stealing I can see how they can even put raping into the same basket.


If you actually read my post instead of just making snarky comments, you'd realize I'm also saying pirating is not literally _stealing, _but still damages a company nonetheless.


----------



## Muffins (Nov 19, 2015)

Just please stop.

"She's asking for it, look at what she's wearing" is a rape justification that places the blame on the victim. It is a disgusting, horrible, vile reprehensible practice and should not be used in any sort of comparison thread.

I'm please asking you, *begging *you, not to do that. That's all I'm doing.


----------



## sarkwalvein (Nov 19, 2015)

ric. said:


> I love how you don't actually quote me so I don't get notified, but sure. It is the same kind of fucked up logic though.
> 
> 
> If you actually read my post instead of just making snarky comments, you'd realize I'm also saying pirating is not literally _stealing, _but still damages a company nonetheless.


Sorry, but I am here for the snarky comments. I actually didn't even bother to read your post, sorry again, but that's the way it is.
The situation was just good enough for me to follow my not so hidden agenda, that is inserting the concept that piracy is a different type of crime, so I did it.


doom127 said:


> Just please stop.


I agree.


----------



## porkiewpyne (Nov 19, 2015)

Demifiend said:


> It is incredible that some people believe that "Oh no, you deprived Nintendo of 40 Dollars, you're the Devil", ah yes, do you think every country is USA?, do you think Nintendo gives a shit about countries that aren't located on EU, NA , KR, China (kinda) and JP?, *NO, *they don't, all you can look for videogames are imported from other countries + they will also be outdated games with expensive prices.
> 
> And even for the people on those regions, it is wrong to assume that every citizen of the entire continent of Europe is able to buy videogames, let alone NA, where people have to pay for Food, House, Water, Electricity, Studies, maintenance, etc. like, taking that out of the question, unless you're really rich, the amount left of money is pretty low, you wouldn't even buy a 3DS game with that.



It has nothing to do with being in the USA or otherwise. That is just how the capitalism-based economy works. You want something. Someone has that something. Seller asks for a compensation for product. If consumer agrees, transaction is made. Whether the asking price is ridiculous (on both ends of the spectrum) or otherwise is irrelevant. If you can't afford it, then you aren't entitled to be a consumer of the item. Remember entertainment is a luxury. 



> What about the time needed to buy a game too, or games that are really weird and hard to find?, Cave Story 3D (with everything) costs 200 to 300 dollars, which is insane for a Nintendo 3DS game, and is also really rare, the only way a sane (and normal) person would play this thing is if they download the game from the Internet.


Similar to the above, it's all about supply and demand. I hate those who engage in price gouging as much as everyone else and I sometimes do wish all sorts of hell to befall them. It's like in TCGs. Certain cards are rarer than others but that doesn't mean you can print them out yourself just because those who own it and are willing to part with it asks for a crazy amount of money in return. Well, I guess you CAN print them out but it is not legal in tournaments and such. But I digress.



> You're in a site about piracy, like, yes, you can't really sugarcoat this site anymore, while the thread of "Homebrew" is debatable as if it should be among the "Piracy" things or not, or that Gbatemp has some other nice things too, like it's active community and interesting threads at times, it doesn't mean that you can go all around saying "Guys, You're stealing maney from Nintendo" when the company, already has enough money.
> 
> Why would you pay Nintendo more if they have a shit ton right now?, and even then, i repeat, piracy is not stealing, is _copying, _which is different, Nintendo wasn't going to get any money from me anyway, but i have the right to use the Hardware i bought from them to do the shit i want to do, since it's my right to modify it, as that is freedom of speech and actions.


Once again, this is not how business works. Just because someone has money doesn't mean you can deny him of what he deserves to get.

Semantics aside, the product/goods being sold isn't simply the bits and bytes of the software, but it also encompasses the rights/license to run said software. So yes, while you aren't physically taking a physical object away in the traditional sense, you are intentionally taking away the product without making the compensation agreed upon prior to the transaction with the seller without his consent. Thus it does somewhat amount to stealing.

While I agree that you are allowed to do whatever you wish to your console in my personal point of view, but that aforementioned freedom ceases to exist upon the infringement of another law. For example, you can do whatever you want with knives. You can juggle them. You can sleep with them. However, try flinging them at someone in the public and you will have a problem. It's the same with cars. You should be able to mod your car as you see fit but regulations still apply at the end of the day. There must always be a balance. Total restriction is bad. Total freedom is bad. Too much of a good thing is not good.


----------



## Twili (Nov 19, 2015)

p1ngpong said:


> Hey man I love you. I love you so much that I am going to pay a random Chinese person to help me steal from you. I am so proud of myself for doing that! I am a pirate yargh, what an INCREDIBLE accomplishment! What? You called the cops and got that Chinese person arrested? You fucking asshole! Brb going on an internet forum to cry now!


You don't get the concept of obsessed fan. Obsessed fans love you so much that they want all your stuff.


----------



## Vexiant (Nov 19, 2015)

You know what, bro? I find those two to be wholly unconnected, and I find that some day yours will be as well, porkiewpyne.


----------



## Demifiend (Nov 19, 2015)

porkiewpyne said:


> While I agree that you are allowed to do whatever you wish to your console in my personal point of view, but that aforementioned freedom ceases to exist upon the infringement of another law. For example, you can do whatever you want with knives. You can juggle them. You can sleep with them. However, try flinging them at someone in the public and you will have a problem. It's the same with cars. You should be able to mod your car as you see fit but regulations still apply at the end of the day. There must always be a balance. Total restriction is bad. Total freedom is bad. Too much of a good thing is not good.



While i do think that, the first point about how "Capitalism" works is sort of true, that doesn't make any sense for other people, videogames are a luxury, yes, they are not a necessity, that's i can agree with that, but because of how an economic system works that doesn't mean multiple people from other parts of the world can't enjoy those luxuries too, but well, in defense of videogames, they have like, what, a little more than 40 years?, only counting the time between the super famous NES and LoZ, also SMB it has like 30 years?, compared to things like movies, books, even cartoons obviously, it is a new way to entertain a person.

It doesn't help that the market is kinda of a stiff position, with so many games being released, the consumer getting confused, etc. so probably, in a future, videogames can expand to the rest of the world, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in 2 years, but at least it should have some sort of recognizance among the world much later, i hope that happens because videogames are becoming a sort of popular media, but anyway, even if the "Price" of something is ridiculous high or not, you have to admit that sometimes, it is better to do things the other way just for not giving a shit to those corporate bastards who thinks that by having a Copyright they can do anything with their customers.

As for the last point, dude, you're comparing knives with a pirated console, What the Fuck?, like yes, you can sleep with a knife, you can cut food with a knife, but the difference is, one things runs games, and one thing can potentially (Kill a Person, kill an animal, Cut plenty of things, make damage) like dude, those two points can't compare, the amount of damage you do to anyone when you pirate a thing (Even more for a person who lives in a relatively poor country, like me in Sri Lanka) is, pretty much 0, given the fact that i'm not in the group who can afford games everyday.

But when you have a knife, no matter where you are, you can cause damage everywhere, specially if you're skilled enough to use it well, you can't turn a videogame console into a killing destroying machine, but you can with a Knife, or modifying a car to run over 1000 Km per hour, and run everything that is on my way is also wrong too, compared to those kind of things, i think videogame piracy is like Jesus, because, you aren't harming anyone with this, you're just playing a fricken videogame, if the company gets money or not is another thing, but obviously, it is gonna receive money from loyal consumers that likes their games, so a person or two doesn't make that much of a difference anyway.



ric. said:


> What do you call it when the company is selling said digital copies, though? You may not be "stealing" the physical cart, but you are making an unauthorized copy of the data Nintendo distributes for a price, and as such are getting said data for free, thus denying Nintendo of the money they would've gotten had you bought the game legitimately. Sure, you're not stealing per se, but it's incredibly disingenious of you to assume you're not hurting the company in one way or the other by obtaining their product without paying.
> 
> Saying Nintendo should expect to be hacked just because they distribute their games digitally is the typical "She's asking for it, look at what she's wearing" logical fallacy. Just because I forgot to lock my door at night doesn't give a thief permission to enter my house and steal my stuff.



I don't wanna be offensive with this, but you're comparing an analogy of raping with videogames, just to not get into that thing, i'm gonna change it for you "Look at what that kind is wearing, because he looks like a fool we should bully him" to make things sweeter compared to that, now, when you publish a videogame console, you're giving a person the hardware of a console to work with, that is morally right or not, anyone can open their Wii U's, NX, N64 and such to play games from the internet with an SD card.

You said "because I forgot to lock my door at night doesn't give a thief permission to enter my house and steal my stuff", he may not have permission, but the the difference is, he can enter, since he is a thief, he is supposed to steal things from you, specially for the people who forgot to lock something simple as a door, so, to put it simply, he can, do you think a thief has the moral thoughts of "I shouldn't do this, i'm just gonna be like those people...", no, don't expect that, they are specialized to steal, and kill if necessary.

And while the comparison is crude, the same goes with pirates (well, original pirates were thieves but that's not the point), they are specialized into hacking a videogame console, they may not have the right, but they sure as hell can do that, just accept that, that piracy is a strong movement, and it isn't going to fade anytime soon, they may be there all the time inclusively.


----------



## LaronX (Nov 27, 2015)

I don't even understand how anyone in this thread can even question the actions Nintendo took. They could be the world most consumer friendly company in the world and still would do this. Regardless of you pirating or not you must realize it is a crime to do so and to sell means to pirate games or any other media. It's like blaming J.k Rolling for shutting down illegal prints of her books. Oh she is such a terrible person for protecting her right? She has every right to do so as does Nintendo in this case. This isn't even morally wrong like the YouTube crap they do. If anything complain about that. This is reasonable and Nintendo did what any other company or person would do. Or does anyone who find this bad of Nintendo want to let me sell there work for my own profit?


----------

