# thaddius' Console Roast 2014 Edition - Round 7



## thaddius (Mar 27, 2014)

Welcome back to _thaddius’ Console Roast 2014 Edition_. For those of you who are not aware this is a poll where you, the GBATemp user, get to vote on what GBATemp thinks is the worst console ever is. For more information check out the Rules section below.

*Recap:*
Last week’s poll was the first one in a while without landslide winner. Despite that the clear winner this week is:





The Tiger R-Zone! Congratulations, Tiger, your Game.com came in second too!

I’m actually surprised there weren’t more votes for the Virtual Boy, but I’m even more surprised that people voted for the Game Boy Color. Based on the votes the perceived best console would have to be the SNK Neo Geo Pocket. Not a bad choice, GBATemp (if not a little odd).

And so the Tiger R-Zone joins the Watara SuperVision for the handheld showdown to take place some time in the future that I’m not willing to figure out now.

If you’d like to know more about how the voting went check out last week’s thread here.

*Intro:*


The Fifth Generation of Consoles. There are some main players that we all remember fondly and then there are the rest of the CD based consoles that rounded out the shitty edutainment, VCD playing consoles.

‘Interactive Movie’-type games were ubiquitous on the latter systems as everyone and their dog figured that with the advent of video playback base gameplay that everyone could get in on it. Games like Mad Dog McCree (which i’m horrified to find out was released on the 3DS) and Night Trap were straight out films with tangential interactivity, while games like The Daedalus Encounter (starring Tia Carrere) opted for green screen actors with rendered sets.


I hate this aspect of early-to-mid 90s video games. Mostly because I was asked as a child to play test a few for a local company and they were not fun at all.

So before we get to the contenders, let's recap the rules, shall we?

*Rules:*



Spoiler



There can only be one!

Each week I pit each console generation against itself to determine what the worst console of that generation was. Updates will hopefully be up every Thursday from now till the end.

We’re going to work our way up through consoles and handhelds until we reach the current generation. Once that’s all done, we’ll determine the worst console and the worst handheld. From there we choose the definitive GBATemp-approved WORST CONSOLE EVER.

Your only job, Mr. or Ms. GBATemper, is to cast your vote for what you think the worst of the generation is. Please try to do some research, watch some videos, maybe play a few of these games on a (completely legitimate) emulator, and you just might learn a little about the weird amorphous blob that is video game history. But I can't (and won't) keep you from just shooting from the uninformed hip. You're also encouraged to explain your choice in the form of a response to this topic. 

In the event of a tie, I (Sir thaddius prigg) will cast the deciding vote. It is my Roast after all...

The Generations are taken from Wikipedia as I've deemed that to be an appropriate neutral third party. I understand if you might have some concerns that I've put things in the wrong generation in your opinion, but I'm not too concerned about that. Generations are murky constructs at best and are based on arbitrary distinctions made by outsiders as post hoc rationalizations that don't mean anything to anyone anyway. Don't take any of this too seriously. I'm not going to change the polls based on your opinion of them.

Aggressive discussion is allowed, but please try to keep within the rules of the forums. Just try to have fun and don’t be a jerk, k?


Enough of that crap, time to get started!

*This Week's Challengers:*

*The Commodore Amiga CD32*




Despite long time PC maker Commodore launching the Amiga CD32 successfully in Europe and places like Canada, an injunction placed on it for a patent violation means that many American’s have never heard of this thing.

Just like the Phillips CD-i it was able to play game, VCDs, and regular audio CDs. And just like most early CD-based consoles it had some terrible interactive movie games.

This is an odd console as Commodore made it so that, with a few add-ons, it could be used as an actual personal computer.

Commodore filed for bankruptcy in April of ’94, a mere 6 months after the release of the Amiga CD32 and as a result the console did not sell well.

*The Panasonic/Goldstar/Sanyo 3DO Interactive Multiplayer*




Launching in NA for $700, the 3DO Interactive had it all: crappy games, MPEG-1 VCD playback, and daisy-chained controllers (that last one is pretty interesting actually).

When this thing launched in ’93 it found itself an overpriced monster amid a sea of CD based consoles. There were main consoles like the Amiga and CD-i, but there was also CD add-ons like the Mega/Sega CD and the Turbo GrafX 16 CD, the 3DO being the only one that didn’t mention CD in its title.

Much like the CD-i this one got passed around a few times and a number of manufacturers tried their hand at the console, but unlike another electronics manufacturer that got the whole ‘new to the video game scene’ thing right, none of them panned out very well and the companies just came across as being naive. Especially since having multiple manufacturers making the console inadvertently saturated the market further.

*The Atari Jaguar*




Atari hoped that people would remember how awesome they were pre-crash when they released this console. Sadly ten years had passed and a new generation of video game playing kids had grown up with Nintendo and now Sega so Atari was a distant memory to some and a completely unknown entity to others.

The Jaguar had one ridiculous controller. For the top half they opted for a Genesis-like three buttoned controller, which was fine. But for some reason the bottom half had a number pad.

The downfall of the Jaguar is usually attributed to the fact that it was competing against the SNES and Genesis when it was launched and later the Nintendo 64, PlayStation, and Sega Saturn, but it was also up against a large number of other consoles on the bottom rung of the ladder. CD and 32-bit add-ons for Gen 4 systems made the Jaguar redundant, even when it decided to release a CD add-on of it’s own.

Atari would end up completely collapsing at this time and selling off all of their assets. The company we now know as Atari is only a name as the rights to it were purchased by Infogames around this time.

*The Sega Saturn*




Sega made some strange decisions around the launch of the Saturn.

At the end of the Genesis’ lifecycle they released the 32X expansion. Sega was also working on their ‘Neptune’ console that would be a combination of the Genesis/Mega Drive, the Sega/Mega CD, and the 32X.

While all of this may have seemed like a good idea at the time (relatively inexpensive way into the next generation) Sega has been criticized for fragmenting their fan base with games being released for the Genesis/Mega Drive that required one or both of the add-ons that people didn’t necessarily have. They were also still supporting the Master System, Game Gear, and Pico at the time which may have stretched them a little thin.

Couple that with the botched launch of the Saturn and it’s $399 launch price (a price that was under cut by the highly anticipated PlayStation) and things start to go wrong for the company.

The Saturn was heralded for its arcade ports and did quite well for itself in Japan. Because of this the Japanese CEO of Sega Enterprises instructed Sega of America to focus on the Saturn. This was apparently a point of contention as Sega of America’s management team resigned en masse by ’96.

With Sega of America in disarray the PlayStation and Nintendo 64 remained mostly unhindered but for each other in North America.

*The Sony PlayStation*




Born from a failed deal for a CD add-on for the SNES, Sony rose to become Nintendo’s worst rival.

Despite many newcomers releasing systems left and right Sony managed to create buzz about the PlayStation with an effective marketing strategy.

The well publicized story of Square switching from Nintendo platforms to Sony for their latest Final Fantasy game made gamers take notice. And Sony cooly announcing that it would launch for $100 less than the Saturn was met with raucous praise.

The PlayStation did fall prey to games that relied on video of real actors to exposit plot, but for the most part they were merely cutscenes (like Resident Evil and Warhawk).

Sony would ultimately replace Sega as a main player in the video game industry.

*The Nintendo 64*




In an effort to mitigate load times in their games Nintendo decided to scrap the current trend of using disc based media for their console and stick to cartridges.

This was heavily criticized by the industry as there were those who felt it needlessly increased the cost of the games and reduced revenue as cartridges were comparatively more expensive to make. I’m sure you all know that this is touted as the reason why Square switched teams for Final Fantasy VII.

The Virtual Boy’s failure contributed to the feeling at the time that Nintendo was past their prime. And with the 64 arriving a year after the Saturn and PlayStation and the 64 apparently being difficult to develop for Nintendo was left in a bad position.

Lucky for them the Sega began having trouble with their management in North America and kids who grew up with the NES and/or SNES remained loyal to their brand.

The 64’s controller, which has not aged well, was Nintendo’s ace in the hole at first as no other console this generation initially shipped with a controller with analogue controls (despite the fact that the 64’s control stick was apparently not actually analogue).


The Nintendo 64 would rely mostly on first party support and garner a beloved ‘second party’ in Rare throughout its lifetime, trends that would continue.

*Outro:*

And there you have it: The Fifth Generation of Consoles. I can't see the 64, Saturn, or PlayStation winning this poll at all. I'll be interested to see who 'wins' and who 'loses' though.

Don't forget too vote! See you in the comments!

*Current Standings:*



Spoiler


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## DinohScene (Mar 27, 2014)

Close tie between the N64 and Jaguar.
Seriously, 3 pronged controller?
Then again, A controller with numeric buttons? 

I think I'll go with the Jaguar.
Somehow, I managed the N64, I never played the Atari so I can't really judge about it.


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## cracker (Mar 27, 2014)

The 3DO and Jaguar were both potential of really great games but unfortunately, both were plagued by lack of titles and just plain bad titles. The 3DO did have some pretty fun games though so I had to vote for the Jaguar.


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## XDel (Mar 27, 2014)

Wow, tough choice... had to go with the Sony if I was going to pick one. Out of all the systems, I'd have to say that the PSX was the one I was excited about the least back in the day. Granted, I know it has the largest library, and of course the legendary watered down version of Castlevania SOTN, but truth be told, I never was a Sony fan, and I did manage to spend a LOT of time with my Jaguar and 3DO despite the fact that most of the games for those systems sucked hard core, but the few gems they had, really shined for me.


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## cracker (Mar 27, 2014)

Wow.. Have you ever seen the collection of PS1 games? There are tons of great games for it that are far beyond those of the other systems on the list.


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## mightymuffy (Mar 27, 2014)

XDel said:


> Wow, tough choice... had to go with the Sony if I was going to pick one. Out of all the systems, I'd have to say that the PSX was the one I was excited about the least back in the day. Granted, I know it has the largest library, and of course the legendary watered down version of Castlevania SOTN, but truth be told, I never was a Sony fan, and I did manage to spend a LOT of time with my Jaguar and 3DO despite the fact that most of the games for those systems sucked hard core, but the few gems they had, really shined for me.


??? - Trolling? 

Anyway, a tough one at last! Nobody in their right mind should be voting for either the PSX or Saturn, and despite its problems we should also rule out the N64 purely for some of the greatest games ever seen being on it...
The Jag was horrific at the time, but looking at it now there was some quality stuff on there, including of course the legendary Tempest: The 3DO I honestly had MANY wonderful hours on, again with some fantastic games (been playing on 4DO this week in fact). No my vote, despite having quite the range of games itself, has to be the CD32: most of the games on it were simply ports of A1200 games - anything original on it was mainly crap, and that controller, my God it was horrendous!  Neither the Jag or 3DO had decent pads themselves, but that was in a league of its own. Pit against the CDi (and the generation gap does blur a little between the two) and the CD32 is 1000% better, but it's just not up there with the others in this poll!


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## Foxi4 (Mar 27, 2014)

Wow... really? People voting for the PlayStation, the unquestionable winner of the generation? Okay, fair enough.

This is a difficult choice, since a lot of those systems screwed up in many areas. The Jaguar, Saturn and the N64 are heavily over-engineered, the Amiga CD32 is really just a re-packaged, re-purposed Amiga computer and it's technologically far behind the competition, the 3DO was a commercial fiasco... practically only the PlayStation hit the nail on the head in just about every category, which obviously lead to it being one of the most successful and iconic consoles of all time.

Seeing that I have to pick one, I'll have to go with the Jaguar. It had plenty potential as a system, but it simply offered too little too late. At the time of its release, nothing could touch it in terms of raw processing prowess, but what good is that when coding something that takes advantage of its capabilities required a degree in astrophysics? Each of those systems did something right - the Amiga CD32 could be used as a home computer, the 3DO was the industry's first steps into 3D technology, the Saturn's geometry calculation prowess was unmatched, the N64 supported hardware acceleration via SGI's technology which in turn laid the groundworks for OpenGL and the PlayStation was affordable, powerful for its price tak and easy to develop for and had a massive library of titles. The Jaguar was a relict of the previous epoch and it shows, and that's why it's getting my vote.


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## calmwaters (Mar 27, 2014)

I'd never heard of the Panasonic/Sanyo machine: that's the one I voted for. They were both like Sony: Japanese companies who made electronics. But Sony came out on top because their electronic devices were better. (Anyone remember the Walkman? It was a radio and doubled as a CD player.) But I'm not really sure about Nintendo. Cartridges did load faster than CD's; but they were kind of thick. I think I can safely say that Nintendo started to age here. And Sony had just been born and people were excited about it. But Nintendo survived because of those few devoted people who believed Nintendo still made quality games.


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## cracker (Mar 27, 2014)

I just thought of something. How come the 32X isn't on the list? I know it was an addon but it was its own platform.


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## XDel (Mar 27, 2014)

I almost voted the N64 just because I have always hated the joystick. Great hardware and games though. And again, just because I ain't a Sony fan don't mean that I don't enjoy PSX classics from time to time. It was just during the release period, I only bought a PSX for the best version of DOOM to ever grace a console, other than that, it collected dust while I spent most of my time playing Jaguar, 3DO, and of course the Saturn.
 Ironically, I never owned an Amiga CD32, but I do have two 1200's and two 600's and I am quite fond of Amiga all around so the CD32, though perhaps more of a system to have competed in the SNES/Genesis era, I still could not bring my self to vote against it. It's Amiga for crying out loud, that is sacred ground!!!


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## Foxi4 (Mar 27, 2014)

cracker said:


> I just thought of something. How come the 32X isn't on the list? I know it was an addon but it was its own platform.


The 32X is hard to classify. Originally it was intended as a stand-alone system, but after some internal talks it was decided that it would be more cost-effective for customers to buy it as an add-on instead. It was developed alongside the Saturn, it uses the same technology and it was released shortly prior to its bigger brother. Sega had the intention to market both simultaneously with the 32X bridging the gap between 4th gen and 5th gen and the Saturn being the high end system people will gradually transition to. Of course with a price tag like the 32X's and the fact that it wasn't stand-alone, this strategy turned out to be disasterous, but that's besides the point. So... all in all, it's a 5th generation system that could have been, but ended up as an add-on for a 4th generation one.


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## Maxternal (Mar 27, 2014)

For me it was kind of a draw between the CD32 and the 3DO because the whole interactive movie thing just sucks. The others had at least were a little more dedicated to real gaming. Just because I it's the only one I hadn't acutally heard of before, I think I ended up going with the CD32 a little too fast but can't change my vote now.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 27, 2014)

Maxternal said:


> For me it was kind of a draw between the CD32 and the 3DO because the whole interactive movie thing just sucks. The others had at least were a little more dedicated to real gaming. Just because I it's the only one I hadn't acutally heard of before, I think I ended up going with the CD32 a little too fast but can't change my vote now.


The 3DO was dedicated to gaming, the reason why it's plagued by interactive video games was The 3DO Company's very lenient licensing terms. 3DO is where Need for Speed and Gex started off, among other franchises. The myth that it has no games worth playing is just that, a myth.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 27, 2014)

Christ...this is the toughest vote thus far.


Okay, so the PSX, N64 and saturn easily aren't my vote. I've heard of the other three, but never actually played one. Researching them now shows that these three were really not that bad as some previous entries.
The amiga CD32 didn't get to vote because it apparently was the first console with a browser. No idea how interesting that "upgrade to PC"-thing really was, but it's certainly interesting enough to refrain it from getting the vote.
Of the remainder two, I voted for the 3DO. While it may had some good games, that price is just too unforgiving. And unlike the neo geo, it didn't quite show a return on investment.


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## thaddius (Mar 27, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The myth that it has no games worth playing is just that, a myth.


 
Indeed. When I bought my Panasonic 3DO it came with ~70 games and at least a third of them are alright.


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## mightymuffy (Mar 27, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> 3DO is where Need for Speed and Gex started off, among other franchises. The myth that it has no games worth playing is just that, a myth.


Hear hear! And what about 3DO Need for Speed ehh, a one on one race through the streets with a 'real' bloke who talked shit to you at the end of the race - how fantastic a game was that (and why hasn't that same format been tried since?)
Powers Kingdom/Guardian War? Damn the game is showing its age (I fired it up on 4DO last weekend), but the hours of fun I had with that at the time..... Super SFII Turbo complete with fabulous orchestra remixed bgm... Best version of Cannon Fodder, Return Fire. A fantastic machine! That said, Taleweaver has just reminded me about the rrp, that's put a crack in these rose tinted glasses I'm currently wearing....

And XDel: Amiga equals Sacred Ground?! That's another excellent point right there!


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## Maxternal (Mar 27, 2014)

Thanks, I don't feel so bad about my CD32 vote anymore then.


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## Gahars (Mar 28, 2014)

If only it was the Atari Jet Jaguar, things could've been so much better...

“Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.” - John Greenleaf Whittier


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## kristianity77 (Mar 28, 2014)

Cant believe the 3DO is losing this one!  Sad times!   I had one and it was a decent console at the time, it was certainly a hell of lot better than the Jaguar thats for sure! It had an amazing version of Road Rash, the first semi decent 3D version of FIFA and a host of other decent games like Doom, Flashback, The Incredible Machine, John Madden, Need For Speed, Myst, Wing commander etc.


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## Veho (Mar 28, 2014)

I can't really judge because I never owned any of these.   




Gahars said:


> “Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.” - John Greenleaf Whittier


Is that supposed to rhyme? I can't decide. Because in order for it to rhyme either the "pen" should be pronounced "peen", or "been" be pronounced "ben", or the whole verse has to be spoken in a very heavy New Zealand accent.


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## cracker (Mar 28, 2014)

kristianity77 said:


> Cant believe the 3DO is losing this one!  Sad times!   I had one and it was a decent console at the time, it was certainly a hell of lot better than the Jaguar thats for sure! It had an amazing version of Road Rash, the first semi decent 3D version of FIFA and a host of other decent games like Doom, Flashback, The Incredible Machine, John Madden, Need For Speed, Myst, Wing commander etc.



QFT! Road Rash was great! I had tons of hours of fun with that game. Madden was pretty good. I played a lot of that too since it came with the bundle I got. The "cheats" were a lot of fun.


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## Gahars (Mar 28, 2014)

Veho said:


> Is that supposed to rhyme? I can't decide. Because in order for it to rhyme either the "pen" should be pronounced "peen", or "been" be pronounced "ben", or the whole verse has to be spoken in a very heavy New Zealand accent.


 

I dunno. Could just be a half-rhyme.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 28, 2014)

mightymuffy said:


> Hear hear! And what about 3DO Need for Speed ehh, a one on one race through the streets with a 'real' bloke who talked shit to you at the end of the race - how fantastic a game was that (and why hasn't that same format been tried since?)
> Powers Kingdom/Guardian War? Damn the game is showing its age (I fired it up on 4DO last weekend), but the hours of fun I had with that at the time..... Super SFII Turbo complete with fabulous orchestra remixed bgm... Best version of Cannon Fodder, Return Fire. A fantastic machine! That said, Taleweaver has just reminded me about the rrp, that's put a crack in these rose tinted glasses I'm currently wearing....


 
Erm...you DO know that it's in the original post, right? I remember it being expensive but the $700 price tag still surprised me (with inflation taken into account, that's actually the price of an xbone and PS4 combined).



(EDIT: fuck...did the 3DO had a version of the incredible machine? Man...I'm starting to regret voting for it as well!  )


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## Prior22 (Mar 28, 2014)

Sony should be grateful Nintendo decided to stick with the cartridge format. If Nintendo had switched to CD's the Playstation exclusive third party game listing would be a lot less deep. And when it comes down to first party support, that generation, Nintendo clearly was superior.

Plus lets not forget all the concepts Sony ripped off. Analog sticks, vibration and cart racing with mascots.


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## duwen (Mar 28, 2014)

I think this is the first of the polls where I've actually got first hand experience of all the contenders.
...and it's a tougher choice than most are giving it credit for. For me it came down to the Jag and the 3DO; both had some great games, but in the end the 3DO is a technically superior machine while the Jaguar is a design nightmare in every respect. True, the 3DO was expensive, but so was the Neo Geo.


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## Taleweaver (Mar 28, 2014)

Prior22 said:


> Sony should be grateful Nintendo decided to stick with the cartridge format. If Nintendo had switched to CD's the Playstation exclusive third party game listing would be a lot less deep. And when it comes down to first party support, that generation, Nintendo clearly was superior.
> 
> Plus lets not forget all the concepts Sony ripped off. Analog sticks, vibration and cart racing with mascots.


Ugh...can we please NOT have this sort of fanboy-ism in this thread...pretty please?   I'm honestly interested in how the consoles differ from one another, but this sort of accusations of copying and "if company X had done Y then..." isn't leading anywhere.


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## Veho (Mar 28, 2014)

Prior22 said:


> Sony should be grateful Nintendo decided to stick with the cartridge format. If Nintendo had switched to CD's the Playstation exclusive third party game listing would be a lot less deep.


Nintendo: shooting themselves in the foot since 1996.


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## Maxternal (Mar 28, 2014)

Veho said:


> Is that supposed to rhyme? I can't decide. Because in order for it to rhyme either the "pen" should be pronounced "peen", or "been" be pronounced "ben", or the whole verse has to be spoken in a very heavy New Zealand accent.


The quoted author must have been American. In American English been IS pronounced "ben" (despite how it's writen). The other pronunciation you're hinting at would be heard as "bean" by us as Americans (by me at least)

EDIT : interestingly, no. Google points to Charlie Chaplin ... who was British
EDIT2: although looks like he lived in the U.S. for a good while, too


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## codezer0 (Mar 28, 2014)

Hmm...

This one's kinda tough for me.

The biggest fault of the Amiga CD32 is simply... it didn't exist. I know a lot of Amiga cultists/fanboys will cry heresy for this, but it's true... it was never discussed _anywhere_ - it was never sold in stores, it was never mentioned in any of the gaming mags out there, and it wasn't even a blip on the then-nascent internet. Out of all the various consoles across the different generations post-NES from when I started playing, the Amiga is by far the one that took the longest to even hear anyone acknowledge it existed. Heck, when more people know of the Apple Pippin than your console, something didn't go very well.

As for the 3DO, I did mention there were a few games for the platform I would entertain playing. And the daisy-chaining of controllers isn't as far-fetched an idea as it seems at least to me. I suppose the problem there would be that they later took this out as a cost-cutting measure but to my knowledge didn't release any kind of peripheral substitute to allow multiplayer. The biggest crime, by far, is that launch price. For as heinously expensive as the NeoGeo is to buy and own, that $750 launch price is balls-out bonkers.

The Jaguar? Oh, I was aware of them... as the reason that the industry very nearly died. And that controller is as uncomfortable as it looks. And the "where did *YOU* learn to fly?" over and over? About the only thing I would have wanted to play on the Jaguar was _Alien v. Predator_, and that's it. Finding out that the A/V out was literally an exposed portion of the PCB just tells me they weren't even _trying_ to hide their shameful shadow over the industry at large.

Even though I never owned one, the Saturn is by far one of the few sega systems that I wish I did own, and still have a positive memory toward. Even the original controller was great in the hands for me at the time, and the revised one was all the better. There were also a good number of games I would have wanted on the system... problem is that if I were to buy one now, it would be mandatory to mod-chip it... and get that 5-in-1 cart in order to cover the games and enable cheat support now and again. But yea, it never did make sense to me why the cart slot wouldn't accept genesis games at the time. Might have helped the system for all I know. I wonder if that MPEG card add-on meant for Japanese Saturns would work in an American model? Hmm...

The N64? Yes, the controller is weird as heck. Funny enough I almost envied those that were able to get some of the third party designs that at least tried to make it more ergonomic than the factory one. And by far it has the unadulterated *worst* analog stick in history. I don't know of anyone personally that had an n64 whose analog stick _didn't_ generate tons and tons of chalky residue to ruin its movement on the official controllers. Honestly I'm not surprised to hear about the Mario Party thing and nintendo creating gloves for the thing... I just wish I knew about it back then. Nintendo also committed the dubious crime of disabling the n64's ability to output in anything better than S-Video, which you'd think is a sin considering they were trying to play up how advanced it was. I suppose they were trying to hide the fact that their *worst* design decision for the console was giving it only 2KB of effective texture memory. That said, it had an awful lot of fun games.

Then there's the playstation, which everyone seems to remember so fondly on internet boards like this, whereas I have a love-hate relationship with $ony now, in large part because of this division. Sony _used to be_ a paragon of hardware quality and reliability; but I can trace it down to the *exact day* that they opened their PlayStation division from when all of that fell apart. I had a pre-PlayStation era walkman that lasted me for years and years of service. I had a post-PlayStation Sony TV that didn't even last a month. It was that drastic. The lore about that day dictates that the guy who would become known as _Krazy Ken_ Kutaragi was heard screaming and raging at the top of his lungs when Nintendo backed out of their deal with them for the add-on with him vowing to crush the company. Needless to say, this many years later, the perceived failure to bankrupt and kill Nintendo probably had several side effects of senility, after his venomous tirades nearly killing the PS3 before it even had a chance to start. Yes, there were many good games on the PlayStation; it was also my first real foray into various PC ports, such as the first C&C games, before I had a computer that was even capable of running any games. But that being said, it came with a number of prices to pay, and it is this that scorns me the most with the brand.

_This_ is the console that:

exposed me to the concept of hardware being "dead on arrival". Why? because my first one was DOA out of the box.
Forever damaged my thinking that console hardware was reliable, after going through about three of them before having one that worked.
DISC READ ERROR! OH GOD ENOUGH WITH THE DISC READ ERROR!
WHY ARE YOU SCRATCHING ALL MY GAMES, YOU WHITE PLASTIC BASTARD?
Three copies of Final Fantasy 7 at $50 apiece. This son of a bitch did that to me!
So many ruined games...  So much money down the drain
At the time, I thought the controller was a blatant copy-theft of the SNES one.
Official accessories... failing? Yep. My official PS1 memory card tanked, and hard. Oddly, my most reliable at the time was a Pelican 24-page multi-memory card. Even when the LCD screen identifying pages stopped working, it managed to retain the data and still toggle appropriately.
Jesus, $ony, you make revisionism into a sexual fetish, don't you?
Wait, why does the new one have _less functionality_ than the one I'm being forced to replace? Oh *expletive*.
"What do you mean a $200 service charge for a (then)$150 PlayStation?!?"
"How can Sony get away with saying they made this much profit when there's so many of their systems in landfills now?"
No other system has personally damaged me, and my library, as much as the PlayStation. Suffice to say, if I wasn't being forced to raise money for a replacement, or endure for the longest time the utter unavailability of a system emulator that _worked consistently_, I might have had a much more complete library. And that is why the PlayStation gets my vote.


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## Gahars (Mar 28, 2014)

Maxternal said:


> The quoted author must have been American. In American English been IS pronounced "ben" (despite how it's writen). The other pronunciation you're hinting at would be heard as "bean" by us as Americans (by me at least)


 

The pronunciation is closer to "bin" than anything else. I've never heard anyone (at least, any American, no matter the region) pronounce it as "ben."


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## Maxternal (Mar 28, 2014)

Gahars said:


> The pronunciation is closer to "bin" than anything else. I've never heard anyone (at least, any American, no matter the region) pronounce it as "ben."


Probably a better rhyme than "bean" anyway


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## tbgtbg (Mar 28, 2014)

XDel said:


> Wow, tough choice... had to go with the Sony if I was going to pick one. Out of all the systems, I'd have to say that the PSX was the one I was excited about the least back in the day. Granted, I know it has the largest library, and of course *the legendary watered down version of Castlevania SOTN*,



How can the original version of a game be a watered down version?   



codezer0 said:


> _This_[PlayStation] is the console that:
> 
> exposed me to the concept of hardware being "dead on arrival". Why? because my first one was DOA out of the box.
> Forever damaged my thinking that console hardware was reliable, after going through about three of them before having one that worked.



Funny, I had nearly the same experience with Saturn. It wasn't actually dead out of the box, but it didn't last the first night.

Not that Sony hardware is reliable. I've had to replace more Sony hardware than any other console maker.



Gahars said:


> The pronunciation is closer to "bin" than anything else. I've never heard anyone (at least, any American, no matter the region) pronounce it as "ben."



You've never heard many Americans outside of particular regions, as it's definitely ben in a whole lot of America.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 28, 2014)

Starting with this thread, I was half-expecting to see a shitting context between Nintendo and Sony fanboys voting for the opposite console as the worst. I'm half happy, half disappointed to see that I'm wrong.


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## mightymuffy (Mar 28, 2014)

Taleweaver said:


> Erm...you DO know that it's in the original post, right? I remember it being expensive but the $700 price tag still surprised me (with inflation taken into account, that's actually the price of an xbone and PS4 combined).
> 
> 
> 
> (EDIT: fuck...did the 3DO had a version of the incredible machine? Man...I'm starting to regret voting for it as well!  )


 
 - Well I was a freelance games reviewer at that time laddie, so don't need to read up on the console descriptions....
Amazed the 3DO is winning this.... was the rrp that big a factor? Sure it was expensive, but considering the time of release and what it offered (or rather could have offered given the chance), surely it was justifiably more expensive than the Jag? Tough group though!


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## XDel (Mar 28, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> How can the original version of a game be a watered down version?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The Japanese version released in Japan on the Saturn contained more features. Also the American translation and voice acting was not the best. The down side was that the Saturn version was a bit buggy. The upside is that an English version of the Saturn version appears to have been released for the PSP but without the bugs.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 29, 2014)

Prior22 said:


> Sony should be grateful Nintendo decided to stick with the cartridge format. If Nintendo had switched to CD's the Playstation exclusive third party game listing would be a lot less deep. And when it comes down to first party support, that generation, Nintendo clearly was superior.
> 
> Plus lets not forget all the concepts Sony ripped off. Analog sticks, vibration and cart racing with mascots.


I would sooner use the term _"improved upon"_, since the N64's analog stick is cringeworthy_ (and not the very first in the industry anyways, but hey!)_, external rumble add-ons are silly in the context of a home console and cart racing games came out long before the N64, they're a game genre and they're not owned by Nintendo anyways.

Besides, the N64's problems were not limited to the cartridge format, the system was a mess to code for and despite having superior per-pixel graphics quality, it didn't actually render much. In terms of geometry when using the standard SDK the N64 was sweating, huffing and puffing at 150 000 polygons while the PS1 could technically render 360 000 and the Saturn boasted 500 000. Add the fact that the N64 imposed a superficial limit of 4kb per texture limit and you get a muddy mess because of which developers had to either multi-texture or use gouraud and flat shading, both cases being less than ideal. On top of that, the PS1 was simply a more affordable system, so there you go - idiot-proof choice. There are good reasons why the PS1 spread like wildfire and the N64 didn't, and it's not _"just about the cartridges"_.

The whole concept of _"ripping off ideas"_ is silly - it doesn't matter who did what first, what matters is who does it right. Certain improvements in technology quickly become mainstream and if not for the fact that they are implemented by others, we'd be playing using joysticks to this day - less than ideal for most games.



Veho said:


> Nintendo: shooting themselves in the foot since 1996.


You gotta start early if you want to master something. 

*Errata:* 150 000 polygons per second, actually - my bad.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> In terms of geometry when using the standard SDK the N64 was sweating, huffing and puffing at 100 000 polygons while the PS1 could technically render 360 000 and the Saturn boasted 500 000. Add the fact that the N64 imposed a superficial limit of 4kb per texture limit and you get a muddy mess because of which developers had to either multi-texture or use gourad and flat shading, both cases being less than ideal. On top of that, the PS1 was simply a more affordable system, so there you go - idiot-proof choice. There are good reasons why the PS1 spread like wildfire and the N64 didn't, and it's not _"just about the cartridges"_.


 

Actually the N64 was able to pull off over 500,000 poly's with textures. The PS1's 360,000 was with out any sort of texturing and most games use far far far less than that... (Most games on the PS1 look like blocky mess's because of the real world limits.) 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics

Saying the N64 was a weaker machine is a gross inaccuracy to say the least...


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## cracker (Mar 29, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> Starting with this thread, I was half-expecting to see a shitting context between Nintendo and Sony fanboys voting for the opposite console as the worst. I'm half happy, half disappointed to see that I'm wrong.



Here it starts!


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## Foxi4 (Mar 29, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> Actually the N64 was able to pull off over 500,000 poly's with textures. The PS1's 360,000 was with out any sort of texturing and most games use far far far less than that... (Most games on the PS1 look like blocky mess's because of the real world limits.)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics
> 
> Saying the N64 was a weaker machine is a gross inaccuracy to say the least...


Using the standard SDK it could not. Reaching 500 00 polygone required using Turbo3D microcode which was banned by Nintendo. I did not say that it was a weaker machine, I said that squeezing performance out of it required a degree in astrophysics and microcode tricks. Even if you want to enter the whole flatshaded debate, the PS1 still pushed 180 000 per second.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I did not say that it was a weaker machine, I said that squeezing performance out of it required a degree in astrophysics and microcode tricks.


 

Yeah but getting anything but putrid blocks of pixels out of the PS1 was an easy task right? (My hats off to the handful of companies that produced some fantastic games on the PS1 in spite of having to work with CD's loading and less than 2MB's of space... Jesus... It's amazing they got Gran Turismo 1 and 2 out of that machine.  lol) 

When it came to programming the two machines, I don't think anyone had an advantage in terms of ease of use. At least on the PS1 you had the extra space to work with, on the N64 you had the speed of the cart (Better games used streaming tricks like CD's on the PS1 but with much more bandwidth from carts to get over the texturing problems.) 

To get the best out of the 64 you needed some programming skills, but saying that is like saying the sky is up... In other words it's true on any platform, especially from that time period. 

Look at that list, some of them where freakish multi CPU monsters... In the Jaguars case it's like they went for the grab bag of CPU's approach lol The Sega machine went multi CPU too but at least they went with 2 of the same kind... (I think the Saturn was capable of a lot more than we actually got to see from it, the hardware was just too far ahead of it's time in that respect and most developers simply ignored the second CPU.) 

Sorry Atari, I did the math and I didn't come up with Jaguar at all.... (Ironically the only system in this list I haven't played in person, at least not on real hardware. I did try some emulation of it and AVP was not as fun as it looked... lol)


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## thaddius (Mar 29, 2014)

Even though I'm not a huge Sony fan Silent Hill is my absolute favourite game. Never have I seen a game use the limitations of a console so creatively. Contrasted with games like Turok: Dinosaur Hunter where the draw distance was glaringly obvious, Silent Hill constructed a narrative that used it's shitty draw distance to create atmosphere.

One game that I don't think I'll ever understand from this gen is NiGHTs Into Dreams. I do not find that game to be fun.


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## raulpica (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm not going to justify the CD32 - it could've been MUCH more (especially considering that Commodore had a CD based console system which had more powerful 3D capabilities than the PSX... *back in 1991*! Damned management), but certainly wasn't the worst of this generation, and whoever voted for it clearly didn't know what an Amiga CD32 really was/is (I'm going to use IS as there is still a lot being released for it, probably a new expansion for it coming out soon, too).

I voted for the Jaguar - it was plainly crap. But maybe that's because I didn't see the "3DO" until I had already voted  Tough thing there, they both sucked. Overpromising and overall deluding. But I'd probably put the Jaguar over the 3DO on that. It was overlypumped by Atari, only to be a burning disappointment.

Anyway - the CD32 is awesome, but the PSX was better, both in hardware and in game library. The N64 has a FAR smaller library, but with some hidden gems in it. Overall I'd put the PSX over the N64 (sorry Nintendo fans!)


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## Vipera (Mar 29, 2014)

*Amiga CD32* Eh, let it pass
*3DO* It was a fun concept, despite the huge price
*Jaguar* Almost as arrogant as the game.com campaign ads, for a system that promised a lot and delivered nothing. At least the guys behind the 3DO tried
*Saturn* LOL
*PS1* All hail the king of consoles of this gen
*N64* The console itself sucks and should be the worst if it weren't for some great game that came out of that crappy box. We need more ram already? The controller is what? European graphical limitations? What did you say the price of the games is?

Really, the Jaguar failed under every possible circumstance. And sorry, Tempest 2000 won't save it. The N64 might be as bad, but at least Nintendo delivered something (better graphics than PS1, some unique games like Doom 64 and F-Zero X etc). Can anybody say the same about the Jaguar? I can't find anything.


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## Foxi4 (Mar 29, 2014)

Psionic Roshambo said:


> _*Snip!*_


Oh, I'm not ragging on the Nintendo 64 because it's _"weak"_ - by no means. I'd go as far as to say that it was easily the most powerful console of the generation. N64's story is a tragic one in the sense that the hardware had a lot of power, but you couldn't tap into it properly. It had a lot of unified memory, so you'd think that you could use high resolution textures, but no - the size was limited. You couldn't really use that memory for resources either since the system used cartridges which were substantially smaller in capacity than CD's and required developers to compress the assets. It could process a lot of geometry, easily surpassing the PS1 and even the Saturn, but it required the use of microcode, so hardly anyone even bothered. Fortunately it features hardware acceleration which allows for some fancy effects in terms of lighting etc., so it has that going for it. In any case, I voted for the Jaguar simply because it was over-engineered with the CD32 in close second since it was practically a generation behind the rest of the flock.


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## weatMod (Mar 29, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> The 3DO was dedicated to gaming, the reason why it's plagued by interactive video games was The 3DO Company's very lenient licensing terms. 3DO is where Need for Speed and Gex started off, among other franchises. The myth that it has no games worth playing is just that, a myth.




yeah i owned all these systems with the exception of the amigo cd, though i did have an amiga 500 long before the cd came out, plus amiga cd was not released in the states , i had the original panasonic fz1 real player, and i can say i dont know why people are hating on this console so much, the only reason i can see is the 800$ price tag, but besides that i would have to say it was bretty gud ,i would have to put the atari jaguar at the bottom, or the amiga ,probably the amiga as the worst for EU , i cant believe anyone voted for N64 this is just ludacris, one of the best consoles ever , 1st analog controller 1st real 3d graphics, was the most innovative , sony ps1 i always hated the dpad ,what a piece of crap especially for fighting games, with no diagonals horrible design ,


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## Foxi4 (Mar 30, 2014)

weatMod said:


> i cant believe anyone voted for N64 this is just ludacris, one of the best consoles ever , 1st analog controller 1st real 3d graphics, was the most innovative , sony ps1 i always hated the dpad ,what a piece of crap especially for fighting games, with no diagonals horrible design ,


I find all this incredibly debatable. There were analog controllers before the N64, what you probably mean is the shape of the analog nub that we use today. It's also far from _"first real 3D graphics"_ - if by that you mean polygons then a number of consoles used those long prior to the N64. I also don't see how it would be the most innovative when it stuck to cartridges when everybody else moved on to CD's - I fail to see the innovation. As for the lack of diagonals on the PS1's d-pad, I find it hard to think of a D-pad that does feature diagonals off the top of my head, however I admit that it's pretty bad and remains bad to this day. In any case, there's plenty of reasons why people would dub the N64 a bad system, perhaps not the worst in the generation, but definitely not _"one of the best systems ever"_.


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## weatMod (Mar 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> I find all this incredibly debatable. There were analog controllers before the N64, what you probably mean is the shape of the analog nub that we use today. It's also far from _"first real 3D graphics"_ - if by that you mean polygons then a number of consoles used those long prior to the N64. I also don't see how it would be the most innovative when it stuck to cartridges when everybody else moved on to CD's - I fail to see the innovation. As for the lack of diagonals on the PS1's d-pad, I find it hard to think of a D-pad that does feature diagonals off the top of my head, however I admit that it's pretty bad and remains bad to this day. In any case, there's plenty of reasons why people would dub the N64 a bad system, perhaps not the worst in the generation, but definitely not _"one of the best systems ever"_.


 

it was the 1st CONSOLE to have an analog  controller standard ,packed in
 ,and it was really the 1st CONSOLE to really make use of 3d
i dont see how anyone can say that this was not a  breakthrough innovation for the industry, and  as for it not being one of the best consoles, come on it spawned some of the best games and franchises  of all time ,  LOZ OOT , RE , 007 , so many other nintendo franchises

the n64 choice of carts was not all bad, no load times, no scratching, and the prices of CD games were still just as much so it didnt really benefit the consumer to have CD rom, only the companies benefited  ,because they  didnt have to spend on expensive carts to publish their games , saving that were NOT passed on to the consumer,  and the only other  so called + of cd rom was the FMV cut scenes  and music  , but  the FMV on all those consoles was noting special, , and the n64 had good enough sound without it  



anyways i think the   3do  has got  a bad rap in the voting  , jaguar  had no good games really and miga  was just about 16bit graphics   and  not much better than the  amiga computers which were out for long before  the cd


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## Foxi4 (Mar 30, 2014)

weatMod said:


> it was the 1st CONSOLE to have an analog controller standard ,packed in
> ,and it was really the 1st CONSOLE to really make use of 3d


No, it wasn't, and I don't understand what you mean by _"really use 3D"_ - either you use 3D or you don't. There were console games that used polygons long before the N64, so your point is moot.


> i dont see how anyone can say that this was not a breakthrough innovation for the industry, and as for it not being one of the best consoles, come on it spawned some of the best games and franchises of all time , LOZ OOT , RE , 007 , so many other nintendo franchises


That still doesn't make it a good console in and out of itself. It was a powerful console, but it was severely limited by previously mentioned constraints, hence the small library and moderate popularity of the system. That, and... Resident Evil on N64? That's an odd choice - I would've gone with the PS1 here, but hey! 


> the n64 choice of carts was not all bad, no load times, no scratching, and the prices of CD games were still just as much so it didnt really benefit the consumer to have CD rom, only the companies benefited ,because they didnt have to spend on expensive carts to publish their games , saving that were NOT passed on to the consumer, and the only other so called + of cd rom was the FMV cut scenes and music , but the FMV on all those consoles was noting special, , and the n64 had good enough sound without it


This is false. Cartridges were factually more expensive than discs - the average Nintendo 64 game cost $60 and up while a PlayStation game was between $30-$40 - that's a substantial difference. On top of that, CD's had more than twice the capacity of cartridges - so what if the loading times were longer if there was more content, better quality sound and proper textures? Good luck trying to jam games that were on several CD's _(Final Fantasy VII, much? One of the reasons why Square backed out of the N64 version was lack of storage)_ onto one cartridge. The medium strongly contributed to the downfall of the N64 and that's a fact.


> anyways i think the 3do has got a bad rap in the voting , jaguar had no good games really and miga was just about 16bit graphics and not much better than the amiga computers which were out for long before the cd


Even the Jaguar had a couple noteworthy titles, think Zool 2. Not a whole lot, but still.


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## weatMod (Mar 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> No, it wasn't, and I don't understand what you mean by _"really use 3D"_ - either you use 3D or you don't. There were console games that used polygons long before the N64, so your point is moot.


 

yes i will give you that, sure atari used analog,and some computers like commodore 64 had analog controllers (but doesnt really count cause its not a console) , but the industry had all but moved away from analog , the 8 bit and 16 generations didnt have any analog for the major consoles ,maybe i am missing some obscure consoles that did ,but snes/super famicom, megadrive/genisis, tg 16/pc engine none used analog nor nes or master system , it wasnt until n64 did we get proper analog control,nintendo made it relevant again ,so it was innovative in that sense

yeah your right saturn and other consoles were 1st out with 3d polygons, but n64 was the 1st time we saw the integration of analog and 3d , open worlds, camera control and have it all tied together nicely for console games
it existed prior ,it just wasnt executed very well

also cd rom isnt an innovation that can be credited to this generation anyways, as tg-16/ pc engine was the 1st and it was somewhere half way between 8 and 16 bit gen


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## Foxi4 (Mar 30, 2014)

weatMod said:


> yes i will give you that, sure atari used analog,and some computers like commodore 64 had analog controllers (but doesnt really count cause its not a console) , but the industry had all but moved away from analog , the 8 bit and 16 generations didnt have any analog for the major consoles ,maybe i am missing some obscure consoles that did ,but snes/super famicom, megadrive/genisis, tg 16/pc engine none used analog nor nes or master system , it wasnt until n64 did we get proper analog control,nintendo made it relevant again ,so it was innovative in that sense
> 
> yeah your right saturn and other consoles were 1st out with 3d polygons, but n64 was the 1st time we saw the integration of analog and 3d , open worlds, camera control and have it all tied together nicely for console games
> it existed prior ,it just wasnt executed very well


Fair enough, even though that still sounds a bit like mythologizing Nintendo. They definitely contributed to the return of the analog stick and its shape, I'll give them that. Concepts like camera control or open 3D worlds were somewhat a generation thing since consoles finally reached the level of hardware prowess necessary to render complex geometry, but Mario 64 as a game definitely inspired a lot of game developers and was subsequently mimicked time and time again, sure.


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## weatMod (Mar 30, 2014)

Foxi4 said:


> Fair enough, even though that still sounds a bit like mythologizing Nintendo. They definitely contributed to the return of the analog stick and its shape, I'll give them that. Concepts like camera control or open 3D worlds were somewhat a generation thing since consoles finally reached the level of hardware prowess to render complex geometry, but Mario 64 as a game definitely inspired a lot of game developers and was subsequently mimicked time and time again, sure.


 
"mythologizing Nintendo"





KeK


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 30, 2014)

weatMod said:


> "mythologizing Nintendo"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hope to God you're just trolling with that video...


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## codezer0 (Mar 30, 2014)

tbgtbg said:


> How can the original version of a game be a watered down version?


Probably the fact that the Saturn version of SotN allowed you to pick your player-character from the get-go instead of requiring a code, and also officially had  more content and more to explore in both castles.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 30, 2014)

codezer0 said:


> Probably the fact that the Saturn version of SotN allowed you to pick your player-character from the get-go instead of requiring a code, and also officially had more content and more to explore in both castles.


 
That doesn't make the original version watered down: It just makes the newer version enhanced. There's a difference. "Watered down" would be if the Saturn version came out first, and then the PS1 version came out with less features. But that's not the case, the PS1 version came first, and then the Saturn version came a year later, with features added as a result of the extra time given to develop it.

Edit: If anything, the Saturn version would be considered a "definitive rerelease" in most cases. But considering how the Saturn version performs noticeably worse than the PS1 version, I'm pretty sure it can't even be called that.


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## DJPlace (Mar 30, 2014)

i don't like the atari jag for some reason's 

1.the controller  i heard is like a fucking number pad thing.
2.games are shit. (also there the only system that had a bubsy game on there that was good or bad?)
3.the cd add on looks like a fucking toilet.


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## Pleng (Mar 30, 2014)

Maxternal said:


> For me it was kind of a draw between the CD32 and the 3DO because the whole interactive movie thing just sucks. The others had at least were a little more dedicated to real gaming. Just because I it's the only one I hadn't acutally heard of before, I think I ended up going with the CD32 a little too fast but can't change my vote now.


 


Maxternal said:


> Thanks, I don't feel so bad about my CD32 vote anymore then.


 


codezer0 said:


> The biggest fault of the Amiga CD32 is simply... it didn't exist. I know a lot of Amiga cultists/fanboys will cry heresy for this, but it's true... it was never discussed _anywhere_ - it was never sold in stores, it was never mentioned in any of the gaming mags out there, and it wasn't even a blip on the then-nascent internet.


 
Ok the author of the OP did explain the issues of the CD32 in America, but you're doing that thing again of assuming that you make up the world. Very bad.

The CD32 was very successful initially in the UK. It was advertised on TV (see below) and in magazines ("To be this good would take SEGA AGES") here, and my brother bought his, which I later bought from him - and pimped up to the max, from a well known UK store (think it was PC World).

There are lots of failings, sure. But voting against it because you don't like interactive movies is bizzare. Very few of the games for it were interactive movies - the biggest criticism it had were that the games were only generally ports of Amiga 500/1200 games with a cartoon intro slapped to the beginning and limited save possibilities (due to the ridiculously small amount of NVRAM the device came with). Having said that, some of the games that were 'ported' from the Amiga were gems of their time; Pinball Fantasies, Bubba 'n' Stix, Superfrog, Skidmarks and Worms spring immediately to mind. I don't remember a single 'Interactive Movie' game. I'm sure they probably do exist, but they make up such a small amount of the library - It was certainly marketed as a gaming console.

The fact that it was 'just' an Amiga was it's biggest problem - as mentioned above the games were mostly Amiga ports and the Amiga couldn't really manage 3D graphics. The CD32 had an additional 'chunky-to-plannar' chip to help with this, but it was only used in one game as far as I remember.

However, while being it's biggest drawback, it was also one of its great advantages in the early days; CD32 Magazines came with cover CDs packed full of not only demos, but great little Amiga PD/Shareware games. Every month you could pick up a magazine for a few quid that had the latest game demos, a few movie trailers, some video game reviews and 20 or more Amiga PD games. Yes most of them were crap, but there were usually a few decent gems in each month's issue.

It probably didn't get a mention much on the internet of the time as unmetered internet hadn't come to the UK and Europe yet. We still had to *pay* per minute for dial-up access; so it wasn't very widespread for casual use. However those of us in the UK who used to check the Digitizer game charts would see CD32 games maxing out the CD System game sales charts. Usually there'd be 8 CD32 titles in positions 1-8, with the list being propped up by a couple of "PCCD" games. Occasionally the MegaCD would get a big release that would jump to number 1 spot for a week, before normal service was resumed.


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## Vipera (Mar 30, 2014)

weatMod said:


> "mythologizing Nintendo"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wha...? No, just no. Why do we have to see such idiotic comparisons whenever something new gets released? The whole "iPhone X vs Rock" became old quickly, thankfully. I can't wait for this new fad to disappear as well.


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## Psionic Roshambo (Mar 31, 2014)

I voted Jaguar but it was a tough choice between that and the CD32, the saving grace for the CD32 was with some add ons you could turn it into a full fledged Amiga 1200ish machine. That alone made it at least attractive. Where it not for that fact, I would have have voted it the worst machine out of the list. The graphics on the stand alone machine where barely better than the SNES (Star Fox and Doom on the SNES are better looking than Guardian and Gloom on a plain CD32.) 

On the Jaguar you could buy the CD add on.... or not... lol 

On the side of the Jaguar you had at the time the amazing looking AVP, Tempest X (later released on the PS1, I still have my copy lol) and maybe 3-4 other pretty good games. (Nothing that would blow your socks off.) Given that the Jaguar had better graphics than the CD32 made it a tough vote for me, but the library of the two machines is where the CD32 won out... Turning the CD32 into an Amiga 1200 opened up the entire library of A500-A1200 games literally thousands of games, they may have been 16 bit looking games but still you had some sort of access and some of them where utterly brilliant. (I liked playing the A500 back when the NES was in full swing. Little did I know some of the best would be ported to the SNES and Genesis later on.) 

Jaguar wins by the lack of strength of its library on this list, only recommended for the hardcore collector (It had some gems but damned few of them.) 

PS1 had the best controller by leaps and bounds on this list... The D pad and lack of Analog where it's only weakness's and Dual Shock fixed one of those in the most awesome way possible. Still don't like the D pad even on my Dual Shock 3.

*If anyone is interested in buying a Jaguar I would recommend emulating the thing first... you may change your mind. I know I did.. lol (I also heard the controller is painful to use after even medium periods of game play.)


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## Sakitoshi (Mar 31, 2014)

xwatchmanx said:


> That doesn't make the original version watered down: It just makes the newer version enhanced. There's a difference. "Watered down" would be if the Saturn version came out first, and then the PS1 version came out with less features. But that's not the case, the PS1 version came first, and then the Saturn version came a year later, with features added as a result of the extra time given to develop it.
> 
> Edit: If anything, the Saturn version would be considered a "definitive rerelease" in most cases. But considering how the Saturn version performs noticeably worse than the PS1 version, I'm pretty sure it can't even be called that.


 
as nobody has pointed out this correctly I'll do. the story goes like this...
Konami was creating a game named Castlevania Symphony of the Night, said game was to be released on the, at that time new, console called Sony Playstation. Sony pushed Konami to release Castlevania SotN earlier and thus Konami leave content out of the game. Konami then started porting the game to the Saturn while continued to develop the scrapped content. 3 months later Konami release Castlevania SotN in the Sega Saturn(renamed Nocturne in the Moonlight) and had extra content, said extra content was planned for the Playstation version of the game, but thanks to Sony rushing Konami that never happened.
now I'll list the content that was cut:
- The ability of start a new game with 3 characters, namely Alucard, Richter Belmont and Maria Renard. all of them were available since the beginning and with a nice character selection screen. Note: this iteration of Maria isn't like the one found on the PSP enhanced rerelease of SotN inside Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles.
- While playing as Alucard a "third hand" is available to use consumable items.
- More items are available to use, a example are the "Alucard boots".
- 2 new areas are available, know as the "Cursed Prison" and the "Underground Garden". remains of the entrance to the Underground Gardens can be found in the Playstation version of the game.
- Also there are more songs, remixes of music from previous games.

but not all the things about the Saturn version were good things. Sega probably also ruched Konami to release the game earlier after seeing that the game was already released on the Playstation. the result? longer loading times, problems with the transparency(this was most likely due to hardware limitations as the Saturn didn't natively supported transparency) and stretched sprites due to mismatching on the resolution of the Playstation and the Saturn.


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## xwatchmanx (Mar 31, 2014)

Sakitoshi said:


> as nobody has pointed out this correctly I'll do. the story goes like this...
> Konami was creating a game named Castlevania Symphony of the Night, said game was to be released on the, at that time new, console called Sony Playstation. Sony pushed Konami to release Castlevania SotN earlier and thus Konami leave content out of the game. Konami then started porting the game to the Saturn while continued to develop the scrapped content. 3 months later Konami release Castlevania SotN in the Sega Saturn(renamed Nocturne in the Moonlight) and had extra content, said extra content was planned for the Playstation version of the game, but thanks to Sony rushing Konami that never happened.
> now I'll list the content that was cut:
> - The ability of start a new game with 3 characters, namely Alucard, Richter Belmont and Maria Renard. all of them were available since the beginning and with a nice character selection screen. Note: this iteration of Maria isn't like the one found on the PSP enhanced rerelease of SotN inside Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles.
> ...


 
In other words, exactly what I said... The Saturn one came out later, giving it more development time to add stuff. The reason it was cut from the original PlayStation release doesn't really matter: It still doesn't mean that the PlayStation version was watered down.


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## cdoty (Apr 2, 2014)

cracker said:


> The 3DO and Jaguar were both potential of really great games but unfortunately, both were plagued by lack of titles and just plain bad titles. The 3DO did have some pretty fun games though so I had to vote for the Jaguar.


 

The 3DO lack of titles? Here's a top 40 list: http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/TOP 40 3do GAMES.html

The 3DO had plenty of games. It was the first platform to many series still going today. It was expensive, that's the only thing that really killed it.

Now the M2 was a complete bust.

I would call the top 4 the lovable losers. And, outside of the first party titles, the N64 had an average game library, at best.


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## cracker (Apr 2, 2014)

Around half of the titles released were Japan only and Europe had a very small number or releases. Of what was left, there were many CD-i "edutainment" titles that I don't count as games. Even though it has many more games than the Jaguar I don't think saying it has a lack of them is misleading at all.


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## thaddius (Apr 3, 2014)

Possible delay on tomorrow's post.

I have it written, but I'm going to be driving to Toronto tomorrow morning. I'll try to post it at an OnRoute or something.

On a related note, if anyone is going to LevelUp in Toronto Friday I'll be there showing off my game(s).


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## cracker (Apr 3, 2014)

thaddius said:


> Possible delay on tomorrow's post.
> 
> I have it written, but I'm going to be driving to Toronto tomorrow morning. I'll try to post it at an OnRoute or something.
> 
> On a related note, if anyone is going to LevelUp in Toronto Friday I'll be there showing off my game(s).



Showing off _your games_? Do tell!


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## thaddius (Apr 3, 2014)

cracker said:


> Showing off _your games_? Do tell!


I'm in the final semester of a video game dev program at Algonquin College in Ottawa.

I will be showing off my final project Eutheria - a fantasy RPG where the main players are animals. For the game I'm a programmer and artist, and my main focus was as graphics languages programmer. I'm hesitant to show this because it's an old build before we polished it up in the last month, but you can play an early alpha online here. Basically there's tons wrong with it and don't judge me.

I'm also going to be showing off my mobile games.

Super Caveman Bash - which is currently free on Android's Play Store and Apple's App Store - is a forced runner where you play a caveman escaping a mecha-dino operated facility on the moon. I'm also going to show off a game I'm currently working on called The Peggiverse - a brick breaker with a twist that's releasing hopefully next month - all made in Unity. For those games I was a programmer, designer, and primary artist. These games have been my main focus as they're 'give me a job!' kind of material.

I wish I had a build of Peggiverse up to play as it's a very good game. But you can satiate your curiosity with some screenshots.

Here's two levels from the Aztec/Jungle World:


Spoiler














 
And here's a level from the Viking/Ice/Snow World where the game board is a Viking's beard:


Spoiler










 
I'll let you guys know when The Peggiverse is out and might hand out some promotional codes.


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## Oxybelis (Apr 3, 2014)

Jaguar is better than 3DO? WTF?


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## duwen (Apr 4, 2014)

> Jaguar is better than 3DO? WTF?


 
I know right?!

I can only presume that at least half the votes for the 3DO have come from people who have no actual experience with both pieces of hardware.


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## cracker (Apr 4, 2014)

All this 3DO talk is going to make me break out mine to play some Road Rash and Return Fire!


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## Foxi4 (Apr 4, 2014)

Return Fire was the bees-ness, I loved that game to bits.


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## cracker (Apr 4, 2014)

Yeah I had tons of fun with that game -- in multi-player especially. I would capture my own flag and go bury it off at the edge of the map or just joyride with it around my friend's base for lulz. The PS1 version was watered down because of missing music and cutscene video as well as the lack of the cool laughing skull death screen.


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## duwen (Apr 4, 2014)

Hell yeah!
Road Rash and Return Fire were almost worth the price tag of the 3DO! The PS ports of both were (albeit, watered down) still great, as were the other 3DO titles I can think of that got ported.
...the only Jag title I can recall that got ported was Tempest 2000/Tempest X, which was far superior on the PS!


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## Smuff (Apr 6, 2014)

TBH I flipped a coin to decide between the 3DO and the Jaguar based on the fact that no-one I have ever met either had or wanted either of them.

At least the Saturn was not massively disrespected - Thank goodness, I don't have time to visit you all and burn down your houses.


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## xwatchmanx (Apr 6, 2014)

Smuff said:


> I don't have time to visit you all and burn down your houses.


 
In other words, you can't do it because...



Spoiler


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## cdoty (Apr 7, 2014)

Oxybelis said:


> Jaguar is better than 3DO? WTF?


 

Maybe people are confused and think 3DO is C-P3O's little brother or something.


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## the_raging_snorlax (Apr 8, 2014)

Until only a few years ago I was barely aware that the Saturn existed. Before that I thought it was just Nintendo and Sony at the time. Given that all three were great consoles and I've never heard of the other three I'm just not going to vote. If I did vote I'd probably pick the Playstation because I personally have had very little enjoyment on it (not that I would ever call it a sucky console).


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