# (Shocking) Wii U News, Slow RAM speed and ports issues.



## heartgold (Nov 19, 2012)

*Slow RAM*​ 
It has been reported that Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM and is 43% slower than 360 & PS3 RAM over on neogaf after a teardown.



> Wii U has 2GB of Samsung DDR3 memory running at a max speed of [12.8 GB/s]
> 
> Comparison to other systems
> 360: 22.4 GB/s + eDRAM for framebuffer
> ...


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500362

*Game performance *​ 
Mass Effect 3, Ninja Gaiden 3, Batman Arkham City, Epic mickey 2, Blops2 have techical issues on the Wii U.

Mass Effect 3:


> Without question, it has a few issues. This version of ME3 seems a lot less visually stable than, say, the Xbox 360 version -- the frame rate is choppier, the animation seems rougher. The audio suffers, too


 
Ninja Gaiden 3:


> Visually, Ninja Gaiden 3 is hardly going to make your PS3 and Xbox-owning friends envious. In fact, Razor’s Edge is arguably uglier than its cousins, with bland textures and a bad case of the “jaggies” combining to create a muddy look that would’ve been called out seven years ago during the Xbox 360’s launch. Still, the framerate stays (mostly) smooth, which is crucial for a game


CODBLOPS2:


> The Digital Foundry article featured the first area benchmarked on PS3 and 360. During some of the parts they show the framerate flucuates between 45-50 fps dropping as low as 40-ish on PS3 during the slowest point. On WiiU? Yeah, that same area (right before the chopper) sinks UNDER 30 fps. It's juddery and choppy. On average the framerate seems to spend a lot of time around 50 fps.
> 
> Now, it generally doesn't sink THAT low during gameplay but it spends way too much time under 60 fps. The 360 version is much smoother and even the PS3 version seems to have an edge. The image quality seems more in line with 360 at least, which is to say that it's jaggy as hell, but not blurry like 1.02 on PS3.
> 
> The shadows are also nasty. Until you stand right up on them, they appear at a very VERY low resolution and only resolve into higher detail when you press your face right up against them.


 

Also - Dark10x's comments in the other thread mention the game runs pretty poorly (30 fps in the first level). And it's missing details and has worse lighting.

Wii U






X360





Read more for other games on - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500078


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## Lanlan (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't expect any good performance out of rushed ports. Can't comment on the memory though.


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## heartgold (Nov 19, 2012)

I've already canceled my pre-order. Personally there's nothing I want to play. Will wait for the next Zelda or 3D Mario and by then I could pick one for a little cheaper. It's not worth £300 right now and the tech isn't all that good.


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## Qtis (Nov 19, 2012)

Once games start rolling out after the launch, we'll see how it compared to current gen consoles. This is probably nothing new and has happened with all consoles so far (3DS and PSVita being the latest).


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## Lanlan (Nov 19, 2012)

If I wanna see what the Wii U can do, I'll wait for Ninty games. Or Capcom. Or Kojima Studios. Not fucking Treyarch.


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## Master Mo (Nov 19, 2012)

Rather disappointing though in early stages most of the rushed out ports aren't all that good, though I would have thought DSII and Batman would have been better executed, since those have been in developement for WiiU for a while now.

Personally I'll get the system for other games but I planned on getting Blops2 for local multiplayer, so I have to see how it turns out. If it's not good I'll get it on PS3.


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## Qtis (Nov 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> If I wanna see what the Wii U can do, I'll wait for Ninty games. Or Capcom. Or Kojima Studios. Not fucking Treyarch.


Biased no? Just like "let's wait for Microsoft games for the PC since MS made the platform". If console maker was the only one making games for the console, there would be only a few games on the console.

Mass Effect has been one of the greatest games regarding graphics, so I'd take that as some kind of measure although it seems to be a bit rushed and of course using a new devkit vs an older one (PS3/360/PC vs new WiiU).


As additional reading on the topic, check the Ars review on the Wii U hardware. It has some interesting points, especially about the GamePads battery life and design decisions (and of course the day one compulsory update for most promised features): http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/...ads-tilt-sensitivity-rocks-two-screen-gaming/


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## ieatpixels (Nov 19, 2012)

heartgold said:


>


Hahahahahahahahah! It's next gen, guys!


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## Gahars (Nov 19, 2012)

Welcome to the next generation, everyone! Are you not enthralled, mesmerized, and, yes, entertained?/trollish comment

Honestly, that isn't all that encouraging, but the console did just come out. I'm sure developers will be able to take advantage of the hardware's strengths once they have more time to practice, experiment, and learn about its intricacies. The PS3 went through a similar rough patch at its launch, I remember.


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## PizzaPino (Nov 19, 2012)

is the ram speed maybe less important because they have so much more compared to the ps3 and xbox360 if the games take good use of it?


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## emigre (Nov 19, 2012)

Didn't Nintendo fund NG3:Not so shitty edition? They certainly publihed it so that sounds rather infuriating a project with Nintendo money has a (what sounds to be) average performance.


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## Lanlan (Nov 19, 2012)

Qtis said:


> Biased no? Just like "lets wait for Microsoft games for the PC since MS made the platform". If console maker was the only one making games for the console, there would be only a few games on the console.
> 
> Mass Effect has been one of the greatest games regarding graphics, so I'd take that as some kind of measure although it seems to be a bit rushed and of course using a new devkit vs an older one (PS3/360/PC vs new WiiU).
> 
> ...


Arguably the best-looking Wii games are Mario Galaxies, maybe MH: Tri. RE4 was probably the best-looking GCN game. Peace Walkers looks incredible, as does Revegeance, MGS3, MGS4. Maybe slightly biased, but you can't argue these games look bad considering the hardware.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 19, 2012)

PizzaPino said:


> is the ram speed maybe less important because they have so much more compared to the ps3 and xbox360 if the games take good use of it?


It will gradually become less important as newer titles are made for the system - these are just ports of console titles. The code of those games was created to use scarce memory resources and rely on "computing tricks" to avoid hardware limitations - said "tricks" have not yet formed for the WiiU, which is a new system. In other words, they weren't "made" to take advantage of what the WiiU has to offer, and as such, they do not represent the system's horsepower.

I would reserve judgement until titles that were programmed with the WiiU in mind from the start are released - Bayonetta 2, for instance. Anything that is ported straight from the 360/PS3 to the WiiU will have issues until the firmware and the SDK are polished.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

God I have just an entire list of awesome troll statements to make that'd send the Nintendo brigade straight overboard but I can't peg which one I should choose...



Qtis said:


> Biased no? Just like "lets wait for Microsoft games for the PC since MS made the platform". If console maker was the only one making games for the console, there would be only a few games on the console.


 
Microsoft doesn't "make" the PC, they make the OS for (most) PCs.


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> God I have just an entire list of awesome troll statements to make that'd send the Nintendo brigade straight overboard but I can't peg which one I should choose...
> 
> 
> 
> Microsoft doesn't "make" the PC, they make the OS for (most) PCs.


 
Coming 2014
The newest installment in Hewlett-Packard's epic "Printer Wars" series
"Printer Wars 4: Out of Toner"


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## Valwin (Nov 19, 2012)

ok so what is new here ? lazy ports; what is so shocking bout that ? oh ok if you buy this system to play more that 1 year old ports you're dumb

also nextgen right guys ;o;


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> ok so what is new here ? lazy ports; what is so shocking bout that ? oh ok if you buy this system to play more that 1 year old ports you're dumb
> 
> also nextgen right guys ;o;


the butthert is strong in this one.  you'd think with this thread being posted by heartgold you'd be a little less "omgsomeonesaidsomethingbadaboutnintendo"


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## emigre (Nov 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> ok so what is new here ? lazy ports; what is so shocking bout that ? oh ok if you buy this system to play more that 1 year old ports you're dumb
> 
> also nextgen right guys ;o;


 
Interesting and very elaborate angle in calling Nintendo fans dumb there.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

A few things now that I've read a bit more:

That NeoGAF thread is hilarious. Just people going "EA FUCKING SUCKS" even though they put one game that's one of these "bad ports".
You can write off a game or two as a "lazy port" but when EVERY game is a lazy port, perhaps it's not just "lazy ports".
Lol


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## crediar (Nov 19, 2012)

The WiiU has 4x512MB RAM which are very likely interleaved allowing much higher transfer rates than those neogaf guys claim.
Nintendo did this on the GC/Wii aswell.


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## Valwin (Nov 19, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> the butthert is strong in this one. you'd think with this thread being posted by heartgold you'd be a little less "omgsomeonesaidsomethingbadaboutnintendo"


 
butthert for lazy ports yeah. It is sad that people got this to play ports when you can get better deals in current consoles.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

We should really give Valwin less flak here. He's an equal opportunity troll. So in trolling everyone he's actually the least biased and most levelheaded person on GBAtemp.


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## ThatDudeWithTheFood (Nov 19, 2012)

Qtis said:


> Once games start rolling out after the launch, we'll see how it compared to current gen consoles. This is probably nothing new and has happened with all consoles so far (3DS and PSVita being the latest).


What are you saying?
I don't remember any reports from the 3DS or the Vita saying that games were performing badly with weird framerates and sad lighting.
And why would you compare handhelds to the Wii U?


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:


> What are you saying?
> I don't remember any reports from the 3DS or the Vita saying that games were performing badly with weird framerates and sad lighting.
> And why would you compare handhelds to the Wii U?


 
Most of the Vita ports were pretty well received too. Just sticking that out there.

Only game I can think of that could have a "mediocre" port was Mortal Kombat for it's cruddy visuals but it still ran at a solid 60fps and the whole game plus another challenge tower are in the package, so I'd say it's made up for.


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

I'll be agreeing with Foxi and that other poster (the last one on the first page). It's likely the individual RAM speeds don't matter as much if they're done similarly to the GC. That and the near ancient hardware the other consoles are on prevents these ports from being the best they can be. When the console gets the stuff that isn't rushed for launch it should get better.


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## Lanlan (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't know all the ins-and-outs of CPU architecture, but isn't the Wii U's CPU completely different from the PS360's? Like the way it handles instruction and whatnot? And don't we think it's gonna focus more on GPGPU stuff, where the GPU does more work than just graphics? Don't take these games' performance to heart, wait till people actually learn to code for this thing.


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## emigre (Nov 19, 2012)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:


> What are you saying?
> I don't remember any reports from the 3DS or the Vita saying that games were performing badly with weird framerates and sad lighting.
> And why would you compare handhelds to the Wii U?


 






_I'm still stuck in a dream of solid 30 fps..._


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> I don't know all the ins-and-outs of CPU architecture, but isn't the Wii U's CPU completely different from the PS360's? Like the way it handles instruction and whatnot? And don't we think it's gonna focus more on GPGPU stuff, where the GPU does more work than just graphics? Don't take these games' performance to heart, wait till people actually learn to code for this thing.


 
Although it's not too comforting to hear "People just don't know how to use the system yet!" Multiplat releases aren't going to wait and it may turn off a lot of PS3/Xbox 360 multiplats from joining the Wii U as well. I mean if it's having issues running an Unreal Engine 3 game then that's a serious issue.

I'm sure games built from the ground-up work well enough but not a lot of multiplat devs are going to completely rebuild their games from the ground-up just for the Wii U when the PS3/Xbox 360 has a huge install base that's easy to develop and port for already.


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> butthert for lazy ports yeah. It is sad that people got this to play ports when you can get better deals in current consoles.


right, let me just put this Mass Effect 3 disc in my Wii...


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Although it's not too comforting to hear "People just don't know how to use the system yet!" Multiplat releases aren't going to wait and it may turn off a lot of PS3/Xbox 360 multiplats from joining the Wii U as well. I mean if it's having issues running an Unreal Engine 3 game then that's a serious issue.
> 
> I'm sure games built from the ground-up work well enough but not a lot of multiplat devs are going to completely rebuild their games from the ground-up just for the Wii U when the PS3/Xbox 360 has a huge install base that's easy to develop and port for already.


Honestly, I'm sure ports from current consoles will never be "built completely from the ground up". Back when the 360 first came out, many devs just didn't make great use of the System. Turok looks awesome to this day, but CoD Modern Warfare does not. The CoD series is not known for the best looking game. I'm sure with a bit of tweaking, devs of all sizes will be making grander use of the Wii U.

Besides, Black Ops 2 is trash compared to the other Call of Duty games thus far. Crap maps, bad spawn (even worse than previous ones), and MW3 netcode done even worse.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Honestly, I'm sure ports from current consoles will never be "built completely from the ground up". Back when the 360 first came out, many devs just didn't make great use of the System. Turok looks awesome to this day, but CoD Modern Warfare does not. The CoD series is not known for the best looking game. I'm sure with a bit of tweaking, devs of all sizes will be making grander use of the Wii U.


 
But the question is: why would devs invest the time and money into taking special care of Wii U versions of their games when it's so much easier to sell it to the larger Xbox 360/PS3 install base?


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## ComeTurismO (Nov 19, 2012)

LOL great, I chose the 3ds because of this thread


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But the question is: why would devs invest the time and money into taking special care of Wii U versions of their games when it's so much easier to sell it to the larger Xbox 360/PS3 install base?


Well, the old phrase "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" comes to mind easily. Why do any businesses try new things? Obviously anything with the Nintendo brand attached will sell, so they may as well get started now since they have zero excuses related to shit hardware like with the Wii. Basic business sense Guild.

That and if EA succeeds in selling ME3 for full price, the Wii U really will let Devs "print money" with ports of old games.


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Honestly, I'm sure ports from current consoles will never be "built completely from the ground up". Back when the 360 first came out, many devs just didn't make great use of the System. Turok looks awesome to this day, but CoD Modern Warfare does not. The CoD series is not known for the best looking game. I'm sure with a bit of tweaking, devs of all sizes will be making grander use of the Wii U.
> 
> Besides, Black Ops 2 is trash compared to the other Call of Duty games thus far. Crap maps, bad spawn (even worse than previous ones), and MW3 netcode done even worse.


 I think I get what you're saying, but your example makes no sense whatsoever. Turok came a year after CoD4 and still had the "everything is shiny = good graphics" bullshit going. CoD4 still looks good today especially considering it came out over 5 years ago... Have you played both of these games?




Sterling said:


> Well, the old phrase "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" comes to mind easily. Why do any businesses try new things?


except...the gaming industry hasn't exactly been keen on trying new things the past two generations.


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> I think I get what you're saying, but your example makes no sense whatsoever.  Turok came a year after CoD4 and still had the "everything is shiny = good graphics" bullshit going.  CoD4 still looks good today especially considering it came out over 5 years ago...  Have you played both of these games?


Yes, and unless I'm mistaken, Turok was a launch title for the 360. BRB, checking my releases.

Oh, I am very much mistaken. My bad. 08 does not coincide with the 360 launch.


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## p1ngpong (Nov 19, 2012)

Wow just wow.

So not only is the wii u incapable of outputting full HD 3D graphics natively, it cant even stand toe to toe with the ps3 and 360 graphically? That's really incredibly sad I feel sorry for all the suckers who took Nintendo at their word and were stabbed in the back yet again by supporting them early. :/


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't know why we're really using Turok or even discussing the Xbox 360 here. If we can look back at it's launch titles and early games and say "They still look and perform well", that's a testament to the system. If we look back at these games 5 years from now and still realize how bad they were performing, that's not exactly good.



p1ngpong said:


> Wow just wow.
> 
> So not only is the wii u incapable of outputting full HD 3D graphics natively, it cant even stand toe to toe with the ps3 and 360 graphically? That's really incredibly sad I feel sorry for all the suckers who took Nintendo at their word and were stabbed in the back yet again by supporting them early. :/


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## weavile001 (Nov 19, 2012)

It's still the beginning of the console, so let's not expect it running better than xbox360/ps3

even though the graphics aren't that good for m.f. games, I'm sure that they will do great on games such as smash bros 4.


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## Hells Malice (Nov 19, 2012)

I didn't get a WiiU to blow my mind visually, nor play ports of bad games I can just run on my PC/360/PS3.
It's more powerful than the Wii, and that's all that really matters. I don't really care how powerful it is compared to other consoles.
Anyone getting a nintendo console for the power is doing it wrong.


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> except...the gaming industry hasn't exactly been keen on trying new things the past two generations.



Why should they? Same hardware plus all the money from the people who buy stuff doesn't provide much incentive to do new things. Now they have to since the Wii U is totally new hardware. I really don't see your point. The tried and true shit don't make games bad at all, but a new console forces new coding practices and proficiency.


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## Blaze163 (Nov 19, 2012)

Meh. The WiiU fails to excite me on every level. I simply could not care less about it. To me, a system becomes worth giving serious thought when it has six games unique to that system that I simply cannot wait to get my mitts on. I can't name ONE for the WiiU. Everything that looks like it might be fun to my mind is already available, bigger and better, on other systems. When I see Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Smash Bros, Kirby, F Zero, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus and above all else Star Fox grace the system, I might contemplate an investment. But right now it's just a gimmick to me. I'll keep as open a mind as I can and wait for it to impress me, but it's certainly not in any danger of bilking me out of £300 any time soon.


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## Eerpow (Nov 19, 2012)

Didn't we have a rule against posting Wii U hardware speculation in the USN? Thread should be moved considering it doesn't give a clear image of what the ram specification actually means to the overall hardware performance. This isn't the full picture on ram performance even since it's missing a lot of crucial information from what I understand.
And yes of course launch games will be lazy ports, it's a launch, developers aren't going to gamble their money and resources on a platform which future success is uncertain. It takes time to develop games from scratch and developing a next gen level exclusive could have a substantial impact economically if the game doesn't get enough sales. This is why most (but not all) current Wii U games aren't anything special and even below the more refined and tuned ps360 versions.

Next gen projects will only begin when Nintendo have some competition on the same level, as for now that competitor is ps360.


Now I'm personally expecting the next bayonetta game to show us little more of what to expect, it's developed partially by a first party studio and it will be developed on the system from scratch, unlike Pikmin which was developed for Wii originally.


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## Lanlan (Nov 19, 2012)

p1ngpong said:


> Wow just wow.
> 
> So not only is the wii u incapable of outputting full HD 3D graphics natively, it cant even stand toe to toe with the ps3 and 360 graphically? That's really incredibly sad I feel sorry for all the suckers who took Nintendo at their word and were stabbed in the back yet again by supporting them early. :/


I do hope you're trolling...


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

Lanlan said:


> I do hope you're trolling...


p1ng? Trolling? Pfft, what're you new?


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## Foxi4 (Nov 19, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Anyone *getting a nintendo console for the power* is doing it *wrong*.


*But Nintendo is...*​**​
*...all about Playing with Power!*​​​Seriously though, those games are poor benchmarks of the console as they weren't originally designed for the WiiU - they're likely not taking advantage of the sheer capacity of the memory instead opting for streaming as if they were "short on it", or so I presume, and that's the major cause of these performance issues. Nothing that can't be fixed with patches and firmware updates - it's silly to benchmark the console when it's getting an update Day 1 and has plenty of updates ahead of it before it reaches its full potential.​


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## Lanlan (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> p1ng? Trolling? Pfft, what're you new?


Excuse me for mistaking an uninformed, asinine post from a supervisor as trolling.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

Hells Malice said:


> Anyone getting a nintendo console for the power is doing it wrong.


 
They made an entire glove based around power.

Your statement is false.


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## Arras (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> Although it's not too comforting to hear "People just don't know how to use the system yet!" Multiplat releases aren't going to wait and it may turn off a lot of PS3/Xbox 360 multiplats from joining the Wii U as well. I mean if it's having issues running an Unreal Engine 3 game then that's a serious issue.
> 
> I'm sure games built from the ground-up work well enough but not a lot of multiplat devs are going to completely rebuild their games from the ground-up just for the Wii U when the PS3/Xbox 360 has a huge install base that's easy to develop and port for already.


I'd say the Unreal Engine itself needs to be edited to work better on the system, considering the way you're supposed to use the hardware is just different. I'm not saying "oh just wait once everyone gets used to it it will totally own the ps360" but that should at least help with making better ports.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

Arras said:


> I'd say the Unreal Engine itself needs to be edited to work better on the system, considering the way you're supposed to use the hardware is just different. I'm not saying "oh just wait once everyone gets used to it it will totally own the ps360" but that should at least help with making better ports.


 
But the whole thing with the Wii U was it was "developer friendly" and that Nintendo could finally get in on the Xbox 360/PS3 territory of gaming. If you're having issues porting an engine like UE3 because your entire infrastructure is "just different", then I think that's a serious issue.


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> Why should they? Same hardware plus all the money from the people who buy stuff doesn't provide much incentive to do new things. Now they have to since the Wii U is totally new hardware. I really don't see your point. The tried and true shit don't make games bad at all, but a new console forces new coding practices and proficiency.


What I'm saying is, devs have been playing it safe for the past two generations regardless of the hardware they're working with.  With the amount of money required to put out a game, companies can fail based on a single poor performance.  What's the better investment from a business standpoint; putting out a quick port that you know people will buy, or building separate versions of a game that will most effectively utilize the hardware of each individual console?  I hope you're not naive enough to think the latter.


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## Arras (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But the whole thing with the Wii U was it was "developer friendly" and that Nintendo could finally get in on the Xbox 360/PS3 territory of gaming. If you're having issues porting an engine like UE3 because your entire infrastructure is "just different", then I think that's a serious issue.


Developer friendly might or might not include the ability to create ports easily. It could be it's just easy to create good games from scratch, but harder to port. Also the "get in on x360" is because it can do a lot more, but because it's different it's a bit harder to make use of it. The PS3 at launch was a disaster to port stuff to as well IIRC, but that turned out pretty well in the end.
I do not believe these ports are the best devs can do. It should be possible to make something that looks like a PS3/X360 game at least. I dunno about better though.


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## Eerpow (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But the whole thing with the Wii U was it was "developer friendly" and that Nintendo could finally get in on the Xbox 360/PS3 territory of gaming. If you're having issues porting an engine like UE3 because your entire infrastructure is "just different", then I think that's a serious issue.


Yeah, it's an issue but what can they do? It's not like they can get ps360 equivalent hardware these days. Nintendo's putting too much faith in 3rd parties again I think, it's seems like third parties are playing it as safe as possible by being resource conservative. Future sales and competitor hardware is what really will bring the Wii U out of the unknown, until we will remain in the dark.
We should only be concerned when we have developers complaining about not being able to multiplat next gen games on the Wii U.


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## Valwin (Nov 19, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> right, let me just put this Mass Effect 3 disc in my Wii...


I guess you don't care about ME 1 and 2 then?


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## jmanup85 (Nov 19, 2012)

Doom and Gloom once again on the Temp, not surprising in the least. Not like this issue never happened for any other console launch... oh wait it has. Lemme just go with it "Nintendo suxxors now lolol" Some people astound me with their stupidity


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## Arras (Nov 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> I guess you don't care about ME 1 and 2 then?


He meant it as a response to the "old gen consoles can play all these ports". Notice how it says "Wii" and not "WiiU". Then again you are an idiot if you buy ME3 for the WiiU anyway.


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## wrettcaughn (Nov 19, 2012)

Valwin said:


> i guess yo don't care about ME 1 and 2 them ?


I already finished both of them on my Gamecube.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

Arras said:


> He meant it as a response to the "old gen consoles can play all these ports". Notice how it says "Wii" and not "WiiU". Then again you are an idiot if you buy ME3 for the WiiU anyway.


 
From the sound of it, people are idiots for buying a lot of the Wii U launch titles.


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

Old8oy said:


> What I'm saying is, devs have been playing it safe for the past two generations regardless of the hardware they're working with.  With the amount of money required to put out a game, companies can fail based on a single poor performance.  What's the better investment from a business standpoint; putting out a quick port that you know people will buy, or building separate versions of a game that will most effectively utilize the hardware of each individual console?  I hope you're not naive enough to think the latter.


What's your point? The port or the fact that they have to use different coding? I was not implying that they were going to optimize every port. if that were true then we wouldn't be having this discussion. The whole point of a port is a cost effective profit turnout. Even more so when it's rushed. Again, what point are you trying to make? This entire conversation started because this port didn't take advantage of the hardware well at all. I pointed out that it's a port and a rushed one at that. Then I went on to say that CoD has never been the top of the line game in the graphics department. Where in any of my statements did I imply they optimize their ports? They should make an effort to at least get them running on par with the other consoles, but they didn't.


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## Arras (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> From the sound of it, people are idiots for buying a lot of the Wii U launch titles.


ME3 is the worst though. Get the trilogy that has a better story because I can continue my character file and has three times as much games, or get ME3 for the same price? GOSH WHAT A TOUGH DECISION.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 19, 2012)

We all know the PS3 port of Skyrim NEVER had issues with textures not loading or RAM, right???


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> We all know the PS3 port of Skyrim NEVER had issues with textures not loading or RAM, right???


To be fair, the 360 has some of the same unresolved issues with Skyrim.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> To be fair, the 360 has some of the same unresolved issues with Skyrim.


 
And yet people are bitching about the Wii U ports when the f***ing thing was just barely released?


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> And yet people are bitching about the Wii U ports when the f***ing thing was just barely released?


What about it? I expected this, and you should have too. It's not a big deal at all.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> What about it? I expected this, and you should have too. It's not a big deal at all.


 
I'm not the one bitching about it, those wankers at NeoGaf are. I personally don't care either way, seeing as Nintendo finally doesn't get watered down ports for once. I like being able to play Arkham City at 1080p, something my laptop or PC at home couldn't do.


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## Sterling (Nov 19, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm not the one bitching about it, those wankers at NeoGaf are. I personally don't care either way, seeing as Nintendo finally doesn't get watered down ports for once.


I didn't say you were lol, and I do agree.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 19, 2012)

Sterling said:


> I didn't say you were lol, and I do agree.


Yeah, and as has been said before, haters gonna hate.


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## Eerpow (Nov 19, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> I'm not the one bitching about it, those wankers at NeoGaf are. I personally don't care either way, seeing as Nintendo finally doesn't get watered down ports for once.


Well people like to bitch about things that obviously will happen...
A completely new system launches, people bitch about getting tons of ports. It rained yesterday, people bitched about getting wet.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 19, 2012)

Eerpow said:


> Well people like to bitch about things that obviously will happen...
> A completely new system launches, people bitch about getting tons of ports. It rained yesterday, people bitched about getting wet.


 
Precisely, they're always going to bitch and moan about a system and its ports, even if it's really new.  If they don't like it, then that's too effing bad, it's not like anyone is coercing them into playing said ports.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 19, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> We all know the PS3 port of Skyrim NEVER had issues with textures not loading or RAM, right???


 
It's better than the Wii U port of Skyrim.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> It's better than the Wii U port of Skyrim.


 
Wasn't that released just the other day?


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## Foxi4 (Nov 19, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> But the whole thing with the Wii U was it was "developer friendly" and that Nintendo could finally get in on the Xbox 360/PS3 territory of gaming. If you're having issues porting an engine like UE3 because your entire infrastructure is "just different", then I think that's a serious issue.


You can't achieve proper performance on a machine which is essentially all-new - developers had whole years to get used to the devkits of the 360 and the PS3, how long did they get with the WiiU? A few months, at best, and even then the devkit was surely updated a few times.

Let's face it - performance-wise, the WiiU is not a huge step up from the previous generation, we knew that before it was released. I remember people crying all over the forums that the PS3 is going to die due to how hard programming for a CELL-based machine _apparently_ was and look at it now - a few SDK updates later and it sold nearly as well as the 360 and continues to get new games.

It takes quite a while to port a whole engine of the size and complexity of Unreal to a new platform - I'm not suprised by the issues concerning framerate. I'm slightly more bothered by texture streaming issues, but I understand where they stem from - this is the legacy of the XBox 360 and the PS3 which had to resort to those tricks due to low total capacity of memory - the WiiU doesn't have to.

I maintain my previous statement from before the console was released - it's an incredible shame that the console has no HDD. It would affordable and it would allow Data Installs, which _*would*_ improve overall performance and it's too late to implement that kind of a change since the system can only accept external drives, and sending all that data over USB defeats the purpose of even trying to avoid the BluRay... but I digress.

I'm going to observe the WiiU's case and I wish Nintendo all the best, but I can't help feeling as if this was just not Nintendo's territory, still. Whenever they created hardware that was up-to-par, it had one or two fatal flaws, rendering the effort useless in the long run - let's hope that won't be the case this time.


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## WoJjTeK (Nov 19, 2012)

I'd not judge Wii U capatibilities looking just on those launch titles, especially ports. They didn't rewrite whole games for this system, they just made it compatibile , so don't expect your TV flying. First ps3 games also didn't look as good as for example Uncharted 3 or God Of War 3. I think we should look mainly at Wii U-only games right now ( ZombiU anyone? ) , and the true and full potential of Wii U will be shown by Nintendo game made from scratch ( Ninja Gaiden 3 doesn't count - it's a modified game not a new game).

//EDIT
And I do agree that Nintendo failed a bit at 3rd-party-friendly-console thingy. I guess they will improve it though.


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## Qtis (Nov 19, 2012)

ThatDudeWithTheFood said:


> What are you saying?
> I don't remember any reports from the 3DS or the Vita saying that games were performing badly with weird framerates and sad lighting.
> And why would you compare handhelds to the Wii U?


What I meant was that games start getting on par with the specs once the devs get to know the devkit as they know the old ones. The latter post explains a bit more (just a post or two below the first one). For example if you compare the first PS3 games with the newer ones, you'll notice quite a jump in a) graphics, b) game engines c) game play d) use of the controller etc.

EDIT: Ninjas gonna ninja..


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## JoostinOnline (Nov 19, 2012)

The rushed ports don't run smoothly, so you just assume it's a problem with the console?


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## Rydian (Nov 19, 2012)

The thread title says "slow ram speed", _yet the source thread admits that the RAM "speed" of the Wii U isn't known_, and for comparison lists some numbers for the 360/PS3 that are the * max theoretical bandwidth*, not the RAM's operating frequency.

This smells like bullshit.


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## Foxi4 (Nov 19, 2012)

Rydian said:


> The thread title says "slow ram speed", _yet the source thread admits that the RAM "speed" of the Wii U isn't known_, and for comparison lists some numbers for the 360/PS3 that are the * max theoretical bandwidth*, not the RAM's operating frequency.
> 
> This smells like bullshit.


Yeppers.

Until _the entire kit_ is connected to proper equipment that could analyze data flow, we can only guess how the system works.


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## Rydian (Nov 19, 2012)

Well what about checking the frequency of the crystals and comparing the possible multipliers on the buses to see which combinations produce the proper operating frequencies for the system in general?  This is assuming that the actual operating frequencies are known, though, and that the CPU doesn't have some fancy stepping stuff... and it might only give a range of possible operating frequencies for the RAM.

Then again, RAM "speed" generally matters jack shit for gaming anyways, which is another hint that this "report" is full of crap.  People are just seeing shitty first-come titles (like how Super Mario World used half-size palettes) and trying to look up excuses why that don't relate to rushed development.


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## Valwin (Nov 19, 2012)

I really like the topic


Rydian said:


> The thread title says "slow ram speed", _yet the source thread admits that the RAM "speed" of the Wii U isn't known_, and for comparison lists some numbers for the 360/PS3 that are the * max theoretical bandwidth*, not the RAM's operating frequency.
> 
> This smells like bullshit.


 
That's just great, this is what we get for believing things from Neogaf


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## Deleted_171835 (Nov 19, 2012)

This thread reeks of such bullshit that I could smell it all the way from DS-Scene.



Guild McCommunist said:


> But the whole thing with the Wii U was it was "developer friendly" and that Nintendo could finally get in on the Xbox 360/PS3 territory of gaming. If you're having issues porting an engine like UE3 because your entire infrastructure is "just different", then I think that's a serious issue.


Do I even have to bring up the PS3's early years? It takes time for devs to fully understand a system.


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## ComeTurismO (Nov 19, 2012)

- prolly his internet connection.
 - 1 month ago


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## DSGamer64 (Nov 20, 2012)

emigre said:


> Didn't Nintendo fund NG3:Not so shitty edition? They certainly publihed it so that sounds rather infuriating a project with Nintendo money has a (what sounds to be) average performance.


 
Everything I have heard about the game is that it runs flawlessly, and is overall a vastly superior version to the POS on the PS3 and 360.

Also, I have not experienced any technical problems with Arkham City or Mass Effect 3, dunno what these idiots are seeing that I am not. Anyone who buys a rehash game like COD gets what they pay for as well, it's shit and will always be shit, those idiots don't know how to make a quality game if it slapped them in the face.


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## chartube12 (Nov 20, 2012)

I would be surprised if the ports weren't lazy and quick rush jobs. Now if the trend continues for later games then we can start to worry about the Wii-U's 3rd party future.


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## Rockhoundhigh (Nov 20, 2012)

All we can hope is that shitty ports don't become a trend like with the PS3 SIX YEARS AFTER LAUNCH!


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## the_randomizer (Nov 20, 2012)

All I gathered from the article were nothing but a bunch of butt-hurt douchebags who are opportunistic when it comes to bashing Nintendo.  Imperfect ports are to be expected when a new console is launched. To haters out there, I propose a question: Is it better to have somewhat buggy ports in HD for the Wii U, or would you rather have really buggy, watered-down, laggy online SD ports for the Wii?


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> All I gathered from the article were nothing but a bunch of butt-hurt douchebags who are opportunistic when it comes to bashing Nintendo. Imperfect ports are to be expected when a new console is launched. To haters out there, I propose a question: Is it better to have somewhat buggy ports in HD for the Wii U, or would you rather have really buggy, watered-down, laggy online SD ports for the Wii?


 
The Vita had solid launch ports.

Just sayin'.

Also I think the answer to your catch 22 of "shit ports for the Wii U or shit ports for the Wii" is "Buy an Xbox".


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## Valwin (Nov 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> The Vita had solid launch ports.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> Also I think the answer to your catch 22 of "shit ports for the Wii U or shit ports for the Wii" is "Buy an Xbox".


 
  sorry to disagreed  guild but there's nothing to be proud about ports


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2012)

Valwin said:


> sorry to disagreed guild but there's nothing to be proud about ports


 
Well I wasn't proud of their existence, only that they looked good and ran well.

Unlike these ports.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 20, 2012)

Launch ports. Honestly. They're comparing games that were on a console that had technology understood for years.

Hell, ME3 on PS3 chops and lags sometimes. Ninja Gaiden 3? Honestly, who the fuck cares about that game anyways. Call of Duty? Uh.. running off a 6 year old engine. Arkham City: AE, different developer. Epic Mickey 2, let's be honest, was rushed to be put on WiiU, it wasn't optimized for it.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 20, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Launch ports. Honestly. They're comparing games that were on a console that had technology understood for years.
> 
> Hell, ME3 on PS3 chops and lags sometimes. Ninja Gaiden 3? Honestly, who the fuck cares about that game anyways. Call of Duty? Uh.. running off a 6 year old engine. Arkham City: AE, different developer. Epic Mickey 2, let's be honest, was rushed to be put on WiiU, it wasn't optimized for it.


Why don't these forums have more sensible people like you? Couldn't have worded it better myself.



Guild McCommunist said:


> The Vita had solid launch ports.
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> Also I think the answer to your catch 22 of "shit ports for the Wii U or shit ports for the Wii" is "Buy an Xbox".


 
I'll pass. No RROD for me.

Reasons why the ports are the way they are:

- The GPGPU architecture is new for developers
- The were given a limited window in which to port them
- It's a new system, like the first point; they have to get used to how it's programmed.
- The Unreal engine isn't perfect, even on a PC


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> I'll pass. No RROD for me.


 
RRODs? Party like it's 2007!


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## the_randomizer (Nov 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> RRODs? Party like it's 2007!


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2012)

My Xbox 360 RROD'd once.

I slapped it, told it to stop it, and it went back to normal and has been ever since.

Actually true story.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> My Xbox 360 RROD'd once.
> 
> I slapped it, told it to stop it, and it went back to normal and has been ever since.
> 
> Actually true story.


 
Really? I should try that when my internet connection goes down.


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> Really? I should try that when my internet connection goes down.


 
I just unplug my router and plug it back in.


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## the_randomizer (Nov 20, 2012)

Guild McCommunist said:


> I just unplug my router and plug it back in.


I live in an apartment complex, so they have their own routers (which suck). If it goes down, I'll find out where they are and smack them hard.



Spoiler



which might explain why the system update took two hours last night. Yeah, I hate how our ISP set the routers up.


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## Deltaechoe (Nov 20, 2012)

Why in god's name did I read through this thread?  So much trolling...

Anyway there are plenty of ports on the ps3 that are just as awful (looking at you bethesda)


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 20, 2012)

the_randomizer said:


> I live in an apartment complex, so they have their own routers (which suck). If it goes down, I'll find out where they are and smack them hard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Actually the update was that bad. It took about an hour for me. But I also get 20mpbs download.


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## Forstride (Nov 20, 2012)

There are shitty games on every console.  Sonic '06 was on the 360/PS3, which are current gen, yet it looked like some early build of a Gamecube game.  Halo 4, which was just released, has a lot of frame rate issues.  There are plenty of other examples of visually bad games on current gen hardware.

What I'm trying to say is choppy shadows in a port of an Xbox 360 game (Black Ops 2 in this case) doesn't mean the system and every other game is terrible.  Nintendo Land and NSMB U look gorgeous (From actual experience, not parroting what people over at NeoGAF say), and I'm sure that other games built for the system, and not rushed ports, will also look great.


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## KingVamp (Nov 20, 2012)

*cough* black ops declassified*cough*, but no let's blame the launch games here on the wii u.

Only think "shocking" is that people believe this so easily. 
(Excluding the trolls.)

Also in the OP, if those pics are right, the xbox 360 pic is meant to be better than the Wii u?


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## Guild McCommunist (Nov 20, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Also in the OP, if those pics are right, the xbox 360 pic is meant to be better than the Wii u?


 
Look at dem shadows.


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 20, 2012)

Forstride said:


> There are shitty games on every console. Sonic '06 was on the 360/PS3, which are current gen, yet it looked like some early build of a Gamecube game. Halo 4, which was just released, has a lot of frame rate issues. There are plenty of other examples of visually bad games on current gen hardware.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is choppy shadows in a port of an Xbox 360 game (Black Ops 2 in this case) doesn't mean the system and every other game is terrible. Nintendo Land and NSMB U look gorgeous (From actual experience, not parroting what people over at NeoGAF say), and I'm sure that other games built for the system, and not rushed ports, will also look great.


 
Nintendo Land is also surprisingly really fun. Granted I haven't played all the games, but holy hell, I love that F-Zero game.


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## geoflcl (Nov 20, 2012)

I love how this discussion gets marginally more civilized as time goes on. I was cringing at the first few pages, but you folks seem to have settled down now at Page 5. Good show, GBAtemp!

If the Wii U gets on well enough, I imagine developers will spend a little more time getting acquainted with the console's innards. After all, if developers could get used to the PS3's presumably crazy architecture (although some PS3 versions of games continue to be questionable!), I suppose they might be willing to do the same for Ninty's new console.

As a side note, I can't say I'm terribly well-versed in the inner workings of consoles. Considering the sometimes-questionable quality of PS3 multiplatform releases, can it be assumed that the Xbox 360 is the most straightforward platform at this point, development-wise? And how so? I'd love to hear input on this from those willing!


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## Rydian (Nov 20, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Actually the update was that bad. It took about an hour for me. But I also get 20mpbs download.


20 megabits = 2.5 megabytes theoretical peak.
5,120 MB at 2.5MB a sec = 2,048 seconds, should be 34 minutes minimum.

Given that the 20Mb downstream is shared for your house and it also relies on the upload speed of the server (and we know the Wii U's release is getting Nintendo hammered) I wouldn't say that's too bad, I'd expect ~45 minutes normally (less congestion, etc.)

NO YOU SHUT UP NUMBERS MAI WAIFU


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## Forstride (Nov 20, 2012)

ShadowSoldier said:


> Nintendo Land is also surprisingly really fun. Granted I haven't played all the games, but holy hell, I love that F-Zero game.


Indeed.  It's more fun than I thought it'd be.  I'm loving the F-Zero one as well, and DK's Crash Course.  Haven't played the others as much, but from what I have played, they're pretty fun.


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## Valwin (Nov 20, 2012)

Forstride said:


> Indeed. It's more fun than I thought it'd be. I'm loving the F-Zero one as well, and DK's Crash Course. Haven't played the others as much, but from what I have played, they're pretty fun.


you sir own a wiiu any problems with it ?


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## ShadowSoldier (Nov 20, 2012)

Rydian said:


> 20 megabits = 2.5 megabytes theoretical peak.
> 5,120 MB at 2.5MB a sec = 2,048 seconds, should be 34 minutes minimum.
> 
> Given that the 20Mb downstream is shared for your house and it also relies on the upload speed of the server (and we know the Wii U's release is getting Nintendo hammered) I wouldn't say that's too bad, I'd expect ~45 minutes normally (less congestion, etc.)
> ...


 
Ya. there's a bunch of devices to the router. But our Upload speed does suck quite a bit.



Forstride said:


> Indeed. It's more fun than I thought it'd be. I'm loving the F-Zero one as well, and DK's Crash Course. Haven't played the others as much, but from what I have played, they're pretty fun.


 

I actually didn't like the Donkey Kong one that much. I like the F-Zero. Octopus Dance, and Takamaru's Ninja Castle best. Zelda Battle Quest isn't bad either. And I haven't played enough of Metroid Blast.


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## Rydian (Nov 20, 2012)

geoflcl said:


> As a side note, I can't say I'm terribly well-versed in the inner workings of consoles. Considering the sometimes-questionable quality of PS3 multiplatform releases, can it be assumed that the Xbox 360 is the most straightforward platform at this point, development-wise? And how so? I'd love to hear input on this from those willing!


Architecture-wise it's pretty close to most other major platforms (powerPC/x86 doesn't matter that much since games nowadays are written in high-level languages), and software-wise XNA is the main game development platform put out by Microsoft and heavily encourages porting between the PC and 360 (in fact having presets for the two inserted into the IDEs), so I'd say the 360 seems to be the easiest and most open to ports... that come from the PC.


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## Forstride (Nov 20, 2012)

Valwin said:


> you sir own a wiiu any problems with it ?


I've already talked to you on IRC about it.  The only thing I really don't like is how sounds/music plays on both the gamepad and TV, with the gamepad music actually being _ahead_ of the music on the TV.  And since some sounds/music only play on the TV, and some only play on the gamepad, muting isn't really that good of an option.


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## KingVamp (Nov 20, 2012)

Forstride said:


> I've already talked to you on IRC about it. The only thing I really don't like is how sounds/music plays on both the gamepad and TV, with the gamepad music actually being _ahead_ of the music on the TV. And since some sounds/music only play on the TV, and some only play on the gamepad, muting isn't really that good of an option.


Check this out.


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## Forstride (Nov 20, 2012)

KingVamp said:


> Check this out.



Yeah, I know that some menus do that, but in games, it's not always the same thing.  So music will play on the gamepad, and then the same song will play from the TV with a slight delay.


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## Bladexdsl (Nov 20, 2012)

this is nothing new; the ports were obviously rushed and it's not the first time either as the same thing happened on the wii...remember this?!


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