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Let's talk about suppression

lolcatzuru

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It's kind of cool that you use disingenuously use left wing arguments of tolerance against people who are trying to end your right wing intolerance. What you fail to understand is that I'm not telling you how to live the life you want, I'm telling you that you are a bigot for preventing others from living their life the way you want. I have no problem if you don't want to have an abortion.

I've articulated what I disagree with perfectly well, it's you that is the problem as you are unable to comprehend the simplest concepts. Everything you say is ridiculous, I'm not supporting your statements at all.


Sorry your police can't murder black people for fun anymore.
Or the orange criminal is being investigated for all his fraud.

What else have we illegally taken away from you?

right to a fair election, similarly, i dont remember them being my police but neat! also gonna need a source on the first part. And yup im sure the fraud will get him this time! just like russian collusion! btw whatever happened with your guys son, and china? and the illegal shit with his niece? that still russian disinformation? i can never remember.
 

tabzer

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No, I have attributed one thing to him. You are just trying to strawman your way out of it, because reality makes you cry.

Strawman my way out of what? You shoe-horned Trump into the discussion as the reason why "democracy doesn't work" and why totalitarianism is necessary--which has no bearing on my claim.

It's closer to tribalism. Which you approve of, as you are a tribalist.

I said it's more democratic, and it is. I wouldn't call states "tribes" and it is beside the point. When the alternative is a few people on the bench deciding the rule of 330 million people, people having more direct influence over their law is a step towards more direct representation. Anybody with any imagination can think of things that are more democratic than this, but the comparison is between SCOTUS ruling vs state's legislative practice. It's not democracy vs tribalism.

You simply don't like that the decision may allow a change in a law that you want everyone to follow, despite the process that enforces it. It's fine if you want to admit that, but that's outside of the scope of my claim, so you can be on your way.
 
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smf

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Strawman my way out of what? You shoe-horned Trump into the discussion as the reason why "democracy doesn't work" and why totalitarianism is necessary--which has no bearing on my claim.
No, I'm saying that Trump broke democracy and democracy is necessary, what you're arguing for is NOT democracy.

It's more akin to a dictatorship. The difference being, that you agree with the dictator.

I'm not sure how you think Roe V Wade is totalitarianism, but it shows just how perverted your thought process is.
 

tabzer

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No, I'm saying that Trump broke democracy and democracy is necessary, what you're arguing for is NOT democracy.

You said,"Trump et al broke democracy irrevocably, it's going to take a long time & wiping him and his supporters off the face of the earth, before democracy works again."

This says that democracy cannot be recovered because of Trump... ...but it can be recovered. That's a contradiction. When can it be recovered? Only after totalitarian measures of "wiping him and his supporters off the face of the earth".

In short, you are nuts.

It's more akin to a dictatorship. The difference being, that you agree with the dictator.

I said the method of letting states decide their laws to be more democratic. It is. You haven't proven it wrong or even given a feasible argument as to how it is wrong. You've only thrown strawman after strawman and misrepresent what is said. I don't know which dictator you think I am agreeing with by acknowledging a SCOTUS decision. You want to acknowledge a SCOTUS decision from 1973, but not a SCOTUS decision from 2022. I acknowledge both. Because I can recognize both, I can also acknowledge the sweeping effect a small court can have over a large country. When will you figure it out?

I'm not sure how you think Roe V Wade is totalitarianism, but it shows just how perverted your thought process is.

SCOTUS deciding the rule of 50 states is more totalitarian than 50 states deciding their own rule. If the subject of the law was about killing puppies or planting trees, it is irrelevant to the claim.
 
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smf

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You said,"Trump et al broke democracy irrevocably, it's going to take a long time & wiping him and his supporters off the face of the earth, before democracy works again."
Sure, you're proving to be resistant to reason. So my guess is that it will take until you and people like you are gone before we can have democracy back.

You could prove me wrong, but you don't seem capable. You seem intent on proving me right.
 
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The Catboy

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Sure, you're proving to be resistant to reason. So my guess is that it will take until you and people like you are gone before we can have democracy back.

You could prove me wrong, but you don't seem capable. You seem intent on proving me right.
That user never provides evidance and never moves on whatever position they've taken, even when proven wrong. I've long given up on that song and dance because it's obvious that they aren't going to change or be reasoned with.
 

tabzer

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That user never provides evidance and never moves on whatever position they've taken, even when proven wrong. I've long given up on that song and dance because it's obvious that they aren't going to change or be reasoned with.

Where have I been proven wrong? You are going to have to be specific if you are going to make claims. You are just as nuts if you think half of your voting population needs to "wiped from the face of Earth" before democracy has a chance.

Sure, you're proving to be resistant to reason. So my guess is that it will take until you and people like you are gone before we can have democracy back.

You could prove me wrong, but you don't seem capable. You seem intent on proving me right.

This isn't an argument. It doesn't address anything I say. It's akin to say that all your posts are stupid and you never make any sense.

Pointing out that decentralizing of government is a good thing is not supporting Trump, lol.

I'm not a threat to your democracy. You do a fine job of that by yourselves.
 
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Where have I been proven wrong?
All the time, like 99% of your positions have been proven wrong. And then you cry "well nobody disproved me"

Reality is, you just don't give up, you provide" facts" we prove you wrong, you throw the papers.
You bang the table with logical fallacies, you chuck it when we prove you wrong. And all your left is saying "nobody proved me wrong"
and then when we prove you wrong. you go nuh uh, and go another 500 hoops of bs logic.
So no we're not doing this song and dance. The 500th time we've done it is enough. 499 times over what we should of done.
 
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The Catboy

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Where have I been proven wrong? You are going to have to be specific if you are going to make claims.
The sentence immediately after this
You are just as nuts if you think half of your voting population needs to "wiped from the face of Earth" before democracy has a chance.
I don’t know who said this but it definitely wasn’t me, so you are wrong.
 

tabzer

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You bang the table with logical fallacies

I appreciate an entire post dedicated to an ad hominem in lieu of an actual argument.

I admit that there is a trend of the same people disagreeing with my opinions. If we want to focus on the argument at hand, can you point out how SCOTUS making a decision for an entire nation is less of a centralized authority (authoritarian) than a state's legislate?

I don’t know who said this but it definitely wasn’t me, so you are wrong.

It's the argument @smf posed which you quoted an iteration of in your previous response. That seems to support his position. What is the value of what you have to say about the conversation if you don't pay attention to the conversation?

I didn't say that is what you think. I said you are "as nuts" if you think that. You do know the reason why someone would use the word "if", right? The way I'd be wrong about what I said to you is if you had some sort of convincing argument as to why it isn't nuts to think such a thing. Instead, you are distancing yourself from it. :unsure: Ironically, that action passively supports my position.

Maybe I am always right and you always read what I say the same way you are doing now.
 
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smf

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I appreciate an entire post dedicated to an ad hominem in lieu of an actual argument.


Maybe I am always right and you always read what I say the same way you are doing now.
Everything I learned about ad hominem attacks, I learned from your posts. Rather disingenuous to start using that as a defence.

No, you aren't always right. It's about the only thing that everyone else can agree on.
 

tabzer

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Everything I learned about ad hominem attacks, I learned from your posts. Rather disingenuous to start using that as a defence.

I doubt you've learned anything. You are making earnest strides to ignore the arguments I make above, and to focus on the conversation you want to have. (this)

No, you aren't always right. It's about the only thing that everyone else can agree on.

My opinion is not a democratic co-op. Trying to vote it out isn't the same as providing a sensible argument.

The deconstruction of centralized rule of authority leads to more democratic participation, whether it be about growing potatoes, eating potatoes, or aborting them--regardless if Trump team agrees with me or not. If you have an argument, or an example, that directly contradicts this, I'd be very interested.

Otherwise, it seems that the intelligence here is running dry.
 
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I said it's more democratic, and it is.


The reversal on RvW empowers the state to take and give rights on the subject.
If you understand decentralization of rule to be a good thing (which I am mind to), then further decentralization would be even better.

It's not democratic, it's not decentralized. If it was democratic, this wouldn't be happening when 60% of people said fuck no. And wouldn't be passed by a obviously biased and stacked supreme court, who is again, looking to gut contraceptives.
Hell it's not democratic because these states are making it a fucking felony
you know, can't own a gun, can't vote. You know. Very Democratic.
It's a clearly targeted move to harm women, and harm anyone who would dare to help them.
It's not decentralized since it's providing power to states. Giving power to another government, within the same system, is not decentralizing. It's just deffering power into the hands of a already absurdly strong minority party, through abusing of the broken parts of the system they have control over.
And it ONLY helps that minority party. A very strongly hated, and disliked minority party, who wouldn't win at all if it wasn't for the busted electoral collage combined with a lack of rank choice overall combined with oil companies being in their pockets.

If you cannot get this through your head, I'm ending this on a one note reply.
If I had to tie it back to the thread name, this is supressing women, and doctors. Doctors who have to watch women suffer. Or worry about going to prison and have to worry about going to jail for giving an abortion. Even if right now the patient is dying on the table and the solution is an abortion, they at this moment as the doctor have to do effectively the legal math in their head. And that's fucked.
 
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tabzer

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It's not democratic, it's not decentralized.
I agree with you, in the absolute sense, but my argument is that it's more democratic and it is more decentralized to the alternative before. The alternative before was a small court deciding nation-sweeping matters based on the interpretation of a document which is, relatively, democratically inaccessible.

Regardless of the rules that these states pass, they are more direct of a consequence to how the voters participate in electing their representatives.

My arguments are not: democracy of the state is satisfactory, politicians are trustworthy, masses are not stupid.

If you'd like to have a conversation of how a country can be even more democratic than what we have now, I'd be game. Even then, I doubt we'd be able to come to an agreement to what "true democracy" would look like. Someone can always come in and say "that's not democratic", which is the same low effort posts I'm responding to now.
 
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smf

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I doubt you've learned anything. You are making earnest strides to ignore the arguments I make above, and to focus on the conversation you want to have. (this)



My opinion is not a democratic co-op. Trying to vote it out isn't the same as providing a sensible argument.

The deconstruction of centralized rule of authority leads to more democratic participation, whether it be about growing potatoes, eating potatoes, or aborting them--regardless if Trump team agrees with me or not. If you have an argument, or an example, that directly contradicts this, I'd be very interested.

Otherwise, it seems that the intelligence here is running dry.
I can't make an argument against this, because it looks like the result of a bad google translate.

I agree with the last bit though, intelligence there is running dry.
 

tabzer

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I can't make an argument against this, because it looks like the result of a bad google translate.

I agree with the last bit though, intelligence there is running dry.

"I don't understand, therefore, you must be stupid."

I'm not saying that you should understand, but it seems that if you're not spoon-fed from a political platform, you just wouldn't know how to operate.
 

smf

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"I don't understand, therefore, you must be stupid."

I'm not saying that you should understand, but it seems that if you're not spoon-fed from a political platform, you just wouldn't know how to operate.
1. You assume people are stupid because you can't understand them, so it's hilarious that you're going with that.

2. You threw some word soup at a post. That isn't my fault.

You have consistently argued for less democracy, where you agree with the policies and more democracy where you disagree. I don't believe you actually want democracy. Trump loading the supreme court is not democracy, allowing the state government to control women's reproductive rights is not democracy.
 

tabzer

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You assume people are stupid because you can't understand them, so it's hilarious that you're going with that.

I understand you perfectly fine. It's ideal if one knows what they are arguing with.

You threw some word soup at a post. That isn't my fault.

The "word soup" is technical, but has supplemental context above and below it that you are choosing to ignore.

You have consistently argued for less democracy, where you agree with the policies and more democracy where you disagree. I don't believe you actually want democracy.

No I haven't.

Trump loading the supreme court is not democracy, allowing the state government to control women's reproductive rights is not democracy.

It's not a Trump exclusivity. It's literally a way how both political parties strive to control the nation. If we agree that neither SCOTUS or state government is democracy (in the absolute sense), which is more democratic in terms of relativity? SCOTUS rulings or voted representatives passing laws in their state.
 
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smf

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It's not a Trump exclusivity. It's literally a way how both political parties strive to control the nation. If we agree that neither SCOTUS or state government is democracy (in the absolute sense), which is more democratic in terms of relativity? SCOTUS rulings or voted representatives passing laws in their state.
SCOTUS is more dangerous now that Trump loaded it with right wingnuts.

For example SCOTUS just voted to allow goverment to control reproductive rights against the will of the people living in those states.

You'll need to give some examples of what democrats are doing to control the nation.
 

tabzer

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SCOTUS is more dangerous now that Trump loaded it with right wingnuts.

For example SCOTUS just voted to allow goverment to control reproductive rights against the will of the people living in those states.

You'll need to give some examples of what democrats are doing to control the nation.

If we agree that neither SCOTUS or state government is democracy (in the absolute sense), which is more democratic in terms of relativity? SCOTUS rulings or voted representatives passing laws in their state.
 

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