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Who should pay for the US/Mexican wall?

Who should pay for the construction of the US-Mexico wall?

  • US citizens: we'll pay so much we'll become so poor the bad gringo's will steal elsewhere

    Votes: 8 4.2%
  • Mexico: surely they don't want to make Trump look like a liar, right?

    Votes: 15 7.8%
  • US millionaires and billionaires: because apparently they love putting walls around people they love

    Votes: 12 6.3%
  • Donald J. Trump: the one person on the planet who's really passionate about building it

    Votes: 48 25.0%
  • No one: I'm with border specialists, congress and the democrats who believe it's a waste of money

    Votes: 92 47.9%
  • I strongly object to the subjective nature of this poll! Also: I'm a sourpuss who doesn't get humor

    Votes: 17 8.9%

  • Total voters
    192

Xzi

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Based on the most recent USA Census, about 63% of illegal immigrants access the US Welfare system for financial support.
Do you have a source for that? Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive welfare or other federal assistance programs, so I don't know how 63% could possibly find a loophole around that.

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Coupling that with the fact that $18.3 billion is spent annually for Medicaid-funded medical visits, the entirety of the wall could be funded easily AND still have substantial money left over from just the taxpayer-funded Medicaid spent in one year!
Healthcare costs in this country are out of control regardless. Spending more money on a wall wouldn't do anything to fix that, but I would be happy to spend that money on kickstarting a national healthcare program instead.

Jim Accosta, one of the most outspoken people against President Trump just accidentally admitted himself that the border wall would indeed work.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Acosta/status/1083411819354558467
He didn't say anything even remotely close to that. All he says in that video is that there's no national emergency at the border (duh). If anything it speaks to what's already there being effective enough, and the lack of need for an additional wall.
 
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ShadowOne333

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How exactly do people think a concrete wall will stop the illegal immigration flow into the country?
Are people really that stupid as to believe that?
FYI, there is already some sort of tall steel wall/fence in the border of Texas:
AP18261543300812.jpg
And many other border cities between Mexico and USA already have such a thing.
I highly doubt covering all ground in between both countries would make a difference.
Why?
  1. Cutting off the entire ground entrance to the country will not stop other methods of illegal flow.
  2. Going through the desert is not the ONLY way to enter the country illegally, even if Trump makes it seem as that is the only known way. There's also the sea, air, tunnels, etc. You will be amazed at just how many things people can do to enter when one method is cut-off.
  3. Don't forget fake documents are also a thing, and a lot of people enter the country that way.
  4. If the steel fence and other walls made in borders haven't stopped illegal flow, why would the wall make a difference?
If at all, I say that the immigration policy of the US is WAY too strict, that is the problem.
Let's say someone needs to enter the country for some reason, the way the law is right now for immigration can be sketchy, and the person might get his request denied.
Hence, that said person will look for other means, legal or not, because the law is so tight in immigration policies that at the most minimum inconsistency (or if they didn't like something), you can get denied.

Also, for the people claiming that immigrants "rob" Americans from their jobs...
Excuse me? What the fuck makes you people think you are entitled to that?

People get jobs depending on whether or not the people is capable, trained and qualified for said work.
Besides, it's not like the country has been such a metropolis from the start, nor the continent.
The whole American continent (not just USA) was build on invasion, death, lust, greed and power-hunger, actually ROBBING people from their land, belongings and resources. Doesn't sound so patriotic does it? The very land that any people steps within a country inside the American continent was build from immigrants from Europe and other continents. So that falls as an hypocrisy.

Immigration exists so that people can seek a better place for themselves, one that fits their needs and wishes. If an immigrant is more capable to get a job than a "native" citizen, then so be it.
It's called being fair.
If people from other countries taking your jobs was the problem, then why are so many people in higher positions in a huge amount of enterprises foreigners? That makes the point mute.

Illegal immigration exists mostly due to Americans themselves (not all) being so greedy and selfish that they want to pay below minimum wage to someone to get a job done.
THAT is main reason why people enter the country, and the Americans themselves encourage this.

Oh and also, if people are SO worried about supposed "diseases" entering the country, then you might as well just close all international travels. Don't be naive and stupid, the US is one of the most international countries in the world, don't forget it gets a lot of tourists and people that have to travel to the country for work purposes, and it has a huge amount of people going in and out of it through all kinds of transports, illegal or not.
If a disease will enter, it will do so despite illegal immigration, it's not like illegal immigrants are the only people prone to get sick, a-hole.
 
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SuzieJoeBob

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Do you have a source for that? Illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive welfare or other federal assistance programs, so I don't know how 63% could possibly find a loophole around that.
It's called waiting until 8-9 months pregnant and conceiving the child(ren) once crossing the border illegally.
https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/hehs-98-30
The PDF at the bottom contains more information.

Healthcare costs in this country are out of control regardless. Spending more money on a wall wouldn't do anything to fix that, but I would be happy to spend that money on kickstarting a national healthcare program instead.
I agree that healthcare is exponential campared to average wages, but I blame Congress and the Senate for that, especially since it is all but confirmed that lobbying isn't done without a paycheck.

He didn't say anything even remotely close to that. All he says in that video is that there's no national emergency at the border (duh).
There is no issue at THAT section of the border due to the steel barriers. The main issue is along the Rio Grande Valley and El Paso, followed by Laredo, Tucson, and Yuma.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/media-resources/stats

*I'm done responding to this topic because no one else wants to provide factual evidence, from either side of the debate.
 
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Xzi

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It's called waiting until 8-9 months pregnant and conceiving the child(ren) once crossing the border illegally.
https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/hehs-98-30
The PDF at the bottom contains more information.
From your own link, "this amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs." Which I'm honestly fine with. People born here are American citizens, that's based in the constitution. They should be cared for by federal assistance along with every American citizen.

I agree that healthcare is exponential campared to average wages, but I blame Congress and the Senate for that, especially since it is all but confirmed that lobbying isn't done without a paycheck.
Democrats have proposed a ban on becoming a lobbyist after being a federal government employee. Of course, Republicans won't even bring it to a vote.

There is no issue at THAT section of the border due to the steel barriers. The main issue is along the Rio Grande Valley and El Paso, followed by Laredo, Tucson, and Yuma.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/media-resources/stats
There is no issue at all. Again, the vast majority of illegals come from overstaying work visas. The vast majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry or boats or planes. The need for a wall is simply nonexistent, because it doesn't solve any problem that we're actually having.

*I'm done responding to this topic because no one else wants to provide factual evidence, from either side of the debate.
The wall is an argumentative concept based in emotion and ignorance coming from the president. Facts have never been much of a factor in the debate from the beginning, especially for one side. If you can't handle some logic-based criticism of a "plan" born from a coked-out Roger Stone and memes, it does show the futility of trying to debate in the first place.

A wall is 7th century military technology. We might as well shut down the government to fund trebuchets and war chariots.
 
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kuwanger

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It's called waiting until 8-9 months pregnant and conceiving the child(ren) once crossing the border illegally.

Ah, so it's *legal* citizen children born of illegals that are using those services which may incidentally benefit (illegally) parents until such point that illegal and legal child are deported? I don't see the 63% listed in your link/pdf.

Btw, as for you Jim Accosta twitter link: his point was that back in the early 2000s when Democrats/Republicans were pushing for borders, they specifically wanted high-effectiveness borders of high population density. It was considered absurd to build thousands of miles of borders in the desert precisely because the people who would travel hundreds of miles in the desert are only going to be marginally slowed down by a fence/wall.

It's why during Obama's presidency there was discussion of expanding border patrols and using technology to scan the desert because, in the end, you need a physical person to detain and prosecute the person. A wall alone means little. This also ties into Democrats and Republicans pushing for immigration reform, but they both have widely different ideas of what sort of reforms should happen. The whole "lots of people want to cross as refugees" as the humanity crisis (which implies trying to reform the refugee part of immigration policy) was, AFAIK, the Democrat's position. Apparently Republican's position is to build a wall and pretending we don't see what's happening in the south.

Oh, and it's sort of funny. Mexico offering people an ability to stay and people still wanting to leave? It's almost as if they know of all the risks of Mexico as well. The only reason Mexico would fund a wall is if Mexico was pulling an East Germany: a strong desire to keep people from leaving with walls (and guards) to insure they stay. As it stands, though, clearly Mexico is fine with people abandoning the country; most definitely this is because of all the money that funnels back to Mexican families from workers in the US. If that were to change and Mexico actually wanted to fund a wall that the US (or Mexico) would build? The mere thought of that is gut wrenching to me for what that would mean.
 
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SG854

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The assumption was, by those with an understanding of how government should work, he was too obvious in his ignorance to be electable. We overestimated people's knowledge about government.

Those who don't pay attention still think republicans are fiscally conservative and for small government, and democrats are for using the government to help as many people as possible (the balance between the two had helped us in the past to max/min helping/cost and minimize red-tape). But currently the US system is more akin to whatever corporate influences can buy folks. they've always been self-serving, but now they can do it easily without repercussions.

Majority of republicans are conservative in name only, and any actual folks aiming for a positive progression of the country have to struggle to meet some semblance of sanity (this applies to real republicans and democrats alike). I mean, just look at this wall. So many people support it. but why? It's not fiscally responsible, it will have no consequences other than adding billions to the national debt, and most likely will make only those who pass it richer through kick-backs. It is the definition of everything fiscal conservatives should be against, as well as democracts, and yet most party republicans are on board for it. Why? this certainly has helped me distinguish between those from who understands government and those who just root for their favorite team, regardless of ideology.

Even if you want to continue supporting trump because...well, you like his "I dunno" style of government, and don't care about his racism/sexism/general lack of humanity, you don't have to support everything he does. Supporting someone doesn't mean being required to support everything they do. Something as obviously detrimental as this should be a no-brainer, "who would want something so expensive and ineffectual," kind of decision.



Do you know how people sign up for such things? how they start getting money? You make it sound like just by breathing in the states you get a wad of money and keep some sort of anonymity.

Also, the wall won't actually keep any undocumented folk out. That's the false assumption that's going to cost us billions. And if you want to save money on healthcare, get rid of our for-profit system and replace it with a cheaper system. Republicans tend to be against this fiscally responsible choice as well, oddly enough.



So you're saying a wall is going to protect us from immigrants not going through mexico? Or just those who live in mexico have a good reason to want to be in the states?
Bingo, both parties can be bought off.

Though there is an alternative people may not consider. That money to buy off politicians may actually be extortion money. Legislatures have powers to pass laws to screw over businesses, they might use their power to get extortion money from businesses or they’ll threaten to screw them over with laws and regulations.

Businesses pay the their extortion money and politicians act like innocent victims being bought off when they are actually the ones perpetuation this to begin with.

This is a possible scenario I haven’t heared many talk about.

(You came off as arrogant with “those people who haven’t been paying attention,” “overestimate people’s knowledge”, I heared this so many times from both sides it doesn’t really mean anything anymore. Too many people seem to know the answers, act arrogant and cocky, and talk down on others because they know stuff. When In reality we don’t know much.)
 
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FAST6191

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Also, for the people claiming that immigrants "rob" Americans from their jobs...
Excuse me? What the fuck makes you people think you are entitled to that?

People get jobs depending on whether or not the people is capable, trained and qualified for said work.
Besides, it's not like the country has been such a metropolis from the start, nor the continent.
The whole American continent (not just USA) was build on invasion, death, lust, greed and power-hunger, actually ROBBING people from their land, belongings and resources. Doesn't sound so patriotic does it? The very land that any people steps within a country inside the American continent was build from immigrants from Europe and other continents. So that falls as an hypocrisy.

Immigration exists so that people can seek a better place for themselves, one that fits their needs and wishes. If an immigrant is more capable to get a job than a "native" citizen, then so be it.
It's called being fair.
If people from other countries taking your jobs was the problem, then why are so many people in higher positions in a huge amount of enterprises foreigners? That makes the point mute.

Illegal immigration exists mostly due to Americans themselves (not all) being so greedy and selfish that they want to pay below minimum wage to someone to get a job done.
THAT is main reason why people enter the country, and the Americans themselves encourage this.

Oh and also, if people are SO worried about supposed "diseases" entering the country, then you might as well just close all international travels. Don't be naive and stupid, the US is one of the most international countries in the world, don't forget it gets a lot of tourists and people that have to travel to the country for work purposes, and it has a huge amount of people going in and out of it through all kinds of transports, illegal or not.
If a disease will enter, it will do so despite illegal immigration, it's not like illegal immigrants are the only people prone to get sick, a-hole.

Willingness to pay less than the minimum wage (or also dodge having to dodge having to provide healthcare, pensions, sick pay, nice conditions, decent hours..., not that such things are so very common in low end jobs today) is a fun one. Here I would probably first look to the thing in US law that says companies can be sued if they don't go in hard for the profits, with some small notice given to a company's mission statement, and repeatedly sees it used as well (shareholder sues for lost earnings being a reasonable start for a search there).
Entitled is not necessarily the right term. Most would however say you, as a government, are responsible for providing, or maybe ensuring conditions (there are some people with varying opinions on the responsibilities of the state), for your citizens to thrive. That includes your poor skilled and poorly able (which in case you missed it is no small part of the population and much of the theoretical base of the president) which are quite likely to be displaced or have their quality of life reduced. While I am likely to be fairly callous and aim for meritocracy it is not the only way and "so be it" is far from the only option (we see people encourage, subsidise and cajole to do things all the time).
Minimum wage itself is also not a policy without question by those with their eyes on workers getting a good deal (between limiting growth, pricing certain people out of the market*** and a rising tide lifting all ships) but we should probably skip that one at this point in the discussion.

***if I am compelled to hire someone for minimum wage and I can hire an 18 year old with a strong back to push the button in my factory line the 35 year old disabled guy or a 60 year old semi retired guy looking for some pocket money has not got a look in, to say nothing of it making it likely for me to automate the task when the payoff for it hits around the 3 year range if my usual talks are anything to go by.

When such a thing is coupled with not many disincentives to avoid hiring such people (for all the strong talk it really is easy to hire and be hired there).

Also is it immigrants or illegal immigrants? Big difference in a lot of cases and your post frequently blends the two.

What does that history have to do with today? One is typically not held as responsible for the actions they did not have a part in, and given nobody alive today (give or take the 300 year old illuminati members but there are only like 12 of those so statistical anomaly and all that) will have taken part in it. History, borders and such is a fun one the world over, especially since we decided Westphalian sovereignty was the model to be used (compare to older models of more loose affiliations, those things done under feudalism, the likes of the Austro-Hungarian thing, marcher lords and that is just Europe-Russia for the most part), but in general it is noted that history can't be changed, and thus we are left with solving problems of today and the future, both of which we can seemingly change or effect. Absolutely remember the past, and I look down upon that would seek to forget it, but "you are here, now, it is what it is, deal with it" is a fairly sound policy.

There is also the argument that you don't want to drain the resources of other countries, typically a phrase like brain drain is used here, and it represents a real problem for those countries (you scrimp, save and make international standards, only to have them turn around in the prime of life and say "see you, I might be back to retire or for a holiday"), and possibly also your natives as well*. Economics is a complicated problem here with all sorts of things that happen, and while I would say anybody that claims to know the full picture/resulting effects (even ignoring black swan events) of twiddling a few knobs via a given policy is a charlatan there are still observed patterns and there is a reason we call economics a science. Speaking of it being a science this whole sanctuary city (or in some cases state) thing probably provides us a nice basis to do their favourite trick of a regression analysis on things and resulting effects.

*since the advent of computer work outsourcing (which might speak to the higher positions thing, I should also note the word on the end should have been "moot" as mute means person that can't speak, thing which has the sound turned off or not very bright colours) it has had some fun effects on the natives, and how being able to import 10000 nurses from central America/Africa/somewhere poor is not going to have some serious effects on their original countries and your locals looking at it as a career. Not sure what an answer might be here as I have not even started to properly do the cost-benefit analysis.

Disease spread is an interesting topic and you are possibly over simplifying things. That said controls with regards to diseases are there for good reason -- India and Pakistan having some nice examples for humans (them sending people into the mountain passes to say "we don't care what you do beyond this, if you come through though your kids are getting these vaccinations" being a favourite), though for America a lesser known one would be the end of the Californian quarantine** when everything got diverted to go after the largely theoretical terrorists).
**as 2002 was so long ago (possibly before many here were born, or otherwise were able to make some real sense of the world around them) then some might not have experienced it. Anyway when driving into California there would be people that stopped you and got you to throw away all fresh fruit and veg you were bringing with you (I saw it when coming through Oregon into there, friends have seen it having started in Texas and New Mexico). Right now everybody is concerned with fruit flies (and various types have been for a while now) but it was noted that after such controls were lessened (within the US itself) that things picked up fairly soon after they were dropped.
I would agree the moron natives which eschew vaccinations for their kids for no rational reason are the bigger threat, with misuse of antibiotics being another problem, but to dismiss the problems associated with the more unchecked types of immigration would be a disservice to those looking to control disease spread. Whether it is a good reason to do various things, and what steps are warranted, remains to be debated but to dismiss it out of hand is a bit strong.

I would happily agree that the US' immigration policies are very strange and in need of considerable reform as they make things far harder than they ought to be (not aided by a commonly held notion that it is the best place on earth and essentially everybody would choose to live there if they could, I certainly wouldn't do more than a sub year project and said project would have to be mightily interesting), however at the same time your thoughts here might represent something of an oversimplification of things.
 
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SG854

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Just out of curiosity: which poll option (if any) did you fill in? :unsure:

I ask, because I've yet to hear the first US politician who wants to reduce border protection in any way, shape or form. It's rather the contrary: both parties want the most efficient border protection. It's just that they disagree on what that is.


Sorry, but I'm very much past the point of giving Trump any shred of credibility. I (and others who share my opinion on this) have already been accused of interpreting anything he says as bad, which is (at least for me) a very fair point of criticism. Critics claim that since he came into office, he has spewed about 16 lies and falsehoods per day. That's an astonishing amount...and I believe that. I do believe he's a pathological liar who just keeps on lying to cover up previous lies (small example: why isn't anyone talking about his earlier promise that Mexico would pay for the wall? Because now he's distracting the media with the bait of "it's the democrats' fault").

Take an example: if I point at a random person and claim that he has committed over 200 murders, your response shouldn't be "well...if only a fraction of that amount is true, then that's still a very bad person". Your response should be "is that Taleweaver guy credible enough to make such claims?". For me - and for at least a sizable amount of Americans - the very same thing goes: Trump is simply not credible enough to debate with.

I wasn't there in those 'behind closed door'-meetings. For all I know, Pelosi and Schumer tied him to a chair and anally raped him with the declaration of independence, shouting "beg for your wall, bitch! BEG FOR IT!!!". I fully admit: they could do it and get away with it because I simply do not believe someone who spewed so many lies already.

So...get me someone else. Honestly: can you link me one credible person who is in favor of the wall and can throw some numbers at me that somehow prove that this wall isn't a waste of money?
Heck...it's getting so ridiculous that even fox news channel corrects Trump's spokesperson ("erm...nope. Sorry: those two thousand terrorists you were talking about came here by plane.").
At least you’re staying opened minded about this, and consider criticism that matter.

Trump lies, people lie about Trump. So many people lying. It hurts my head. I’m to the point where Trump does something bad I just don’t care, we hear about 1,000 of what Trump did bad every day, some lies about Trump, and some actual good criticisms. But with this bombardment I’ve become overexposed and I just don’t care anymore. And it seems a lot of people are the same.
 

Xzi

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brickmii82

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Such a played out fallacy. All because Republicans don't understand nuance, and thus don't actually understand what corruption is.

zrkNGWN.png

Source: Kevin G. Shinnick's research
More sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States
Except it's not. If Democrats aren't appealing to appease the financial industry and other prospective donors, why did almost no one go to prison after breaking numerous banking and finance laws causing the housing crisis and financial collapse of 07/08? Credit rating manipulations, anti-trust practices, insider trading, and numerous other crimes yet President Obama's administration, along with his colleagues in the House and Senate did an absolute minimum and instead, focused on the ACA. Why? Because they're more concerned with winning the next election over being morally conscientious. Like it or not, this isn't a fallacy and anyone who isn't trying to pick sides can see that big money has tainted our government. Again, Bernie should have won. The DNC is just as corrupt as the GOP. They both drink from the same trough.
 

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Trump just claimed we lose 300 americans every day coming through the southern border.

Let that sink in for a second.
 

osaka35

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(You came off as arrogant with “those people who haven’t been paying attention,” “overestimate people’s knowledge”, I heared this so many times from both sides it doesn’t really mean anything anymore. Too many people seem to know the answers, act arrogant and cocky, and talk down on others because they know stuff. When In reality we don’t know much.)

Well, specifically those who think trump was going to be better for the country than other republicans, or any of the democrats. I'm not sure knowing the basics should be considered arrogant or bragging X'D. I'm not sure how to phrase it that wouldn't be slightly condescending.
 

Xzi

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Except it's not. If Democrats aren't appealing to appease the financial industry and other prospective donors, why did almost no one go to prison after breaking numerous banking and finance laws causing the housing crisis and financial collapse of 07/08? Credit rating manipulations, anti-trust practices, insider trading, and numerous other crimes yet President Obama's administration, along with his colleagues in the House and Senate did an absolute minimum and instead, focused on the ACA. Why? Because they're more concerned with winning the next election over being morally conscientious. Like it or not, this isn't a fallacy and anyone who isn't trying to pick sides can see that big money has tainted our government. Again, Bernie should have won. The DNC is just as corrupt as the GOP. They both drink from the same trough.
Nearly all of the 'big money in elections' issue stems from Citizens United, a pro-Republican SCOTUS decision handed down during the GWB administration. Bipartisan legislation has been introduced to overturn Citizens United, but as usual, the Republican-controlled Senate is expected to kill it by refusing to bring it to a vote.

https://raskin.house.gov/media/pres...amendment-overturn-citizens-united-introduced

On top of which you have Warren and other Senate Democrats pushing for a lifetime lobbying ban on lawmakers:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/21/elizabeth-warren-lobbying-crackdown-745261

Yet another non-starter because of Republican corruption.

Yes, both parties participate in the system as it's designed, but only one of the parties is actually pushing back against the flawed design.
 
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SuzieJoeBob

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Bingo, both parties can be bought off.

Though there is an alternative people may not consider. That money to buy off politicians may actually be extortion money. Legislatures have powers to pass laws to screw over businesses, they might use their power to get extortion money from businesses or they’ll threaten to screw them over with laws and regulations.

Businesses pay the their extortion money and politicians act like innocent victims being bought off when they are actually the ones perpetuation this to begin with.

This is a possible scenario I haven’t heared many talk about.

(You came off as arrogant with “those people who haven’t been paying attention,” “overestimate people’s knowledge”, I heared this so many times from both sides it doesn’t really mean anything anymore. Too many people seem to know the answers, act arrogant and cocky, and talk down on others because they know stuff. When In reality we don’t know much.)

I'm sorry for coming off as arrogant. I'm used to standoffish discussions with people using verbal rhetoric as actual arguments, with them immediately going on the offensive. It's not a defense, but an explanation.

Also, I totally agree with you.

From your own link, "this amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs." Which I'm honestly fine with. People born here are American citizens, that's based in the constitution. They should be cared for by federal assistance along with every American citizen

It's hard to give documented evidence for what I'm about to say, but Social Workers AND illegal-gone-legal citizens from
Central/South American countries explained how illegal immigrants received much more than that, which is as such; now that the child is a recognized US citizen, the mother becomes the legal guardian of the child, allowing them to fast track their green card application. When filling out the green card application, they declare themselves as single mothers without an income (most admitting to being married and working for cash), granting them welfare, housing, SNAP, and various medical benefits.

Once the family has an apartment, the father then gets a two-way ticket for 'vacation', but doesn't get on the return flight home. Now, since he was never mentioned in the wife's paperwork, the government has no idea the father is actually living with her, basically rendering himself invisible. For transportation, a few states have VERY lax registration policies (California, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Florida) as long as you know how to fill out vehicle registrations the "correct way". Couple that with basic liability coverage and now the car is legal enough to drive.

*Edit: what I've personally been told
Democrats have proposed a ban on becoming a lobbyist after being a federal government employee. Of course, Republicans won't even bring it to a vote
Both sides of the aisle don't want legislation like this.
 
Last edited by SuzieJoeBob, , Reason: Forgot to mention part of it was personal experience

Xzi

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It's hard to give documented evidence for what I'm about to say, but Social Workers AND illegal-gone-legal citizens from
Central/South American countries explained how illegal immigrants received much more than that, which is as such; now that the child is a recognized US citizen, the mother becomes the legal guardian of the child, allowing them to fast track their green card application. When filling out the green card application, they declare themselves as single mothers without an income (most admitting to being married and working for cash), granting them welfare, housing, SNAP, and various medical benefits.

Once the family has an apartment, the father then gets a two-way ticket for 'vacation', but doesn't get on the return flight home. Now, since he was never mentioned in the wife's paperwork, the government has no idea the father is actually living with her, basically rendering himself invisible. For transportation, a few states have VERY lax registration policies (California, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Florida) as long as you know how to fill out vehicle registrations the "correct way". Couple that with basic liability coverage and now the car is legal enough to drive.

*Edit: what I've personally been told
This seems anecdotal at best, pulled from thin air at worst. In any case I'm simply not outraged by the thought of immigration like the president and his supporters are, and the hypocrisy makes it hard to take them seriously, given that Trump himself employs illegals at his golf courses.

Both sides of the aisle don't want legislation like this.
I linked a source to the proposed legislation literally one post above yours lol.
 
Last edited by Xzi,

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Except it's not. If Democrats aren't appealing to appease the financial industry and other prospective donors, why did almost no one go to prison after breaking numerous banking and finance laws causing the housing crisis and financial collapse of 07/08? Credit rating manipulations, anti-trust practices, insider trading, and numerous other crimes yet President Obama's administration, along with his colleagues in the House and Senate did an absolute minimum and instead, focused on the ACA. Why? Because they're more concerned with winning the next election over being morally conscientious. Like it or not, this isn't a fallacy and anyone who isn't trying to pick sides can see that big money has tainted our government. Again, Bernie should have won. The DNC is just as corrupt as the GOP. They both drink from the same trough.
Exactly, both sides are responsible from the housing crisis. (I’ve even recommended a book before by Thomas Sowell about the Housing Crisis and he puts blame on Bush as well as Democrats.) But people solely want to put the blame on Republicans. They both screwed it up.

California recently voted to increase their rent on themselves. But then People started to protest because their rent was increased. But why would they protest? They chose this, they voted for this. Why would you agree to something then blame it on someone else when you did his to yourself.

That extra money collected usually goes to illegal immigration.


Don’t mind the guy calling people morons. But c’mon you voted for this, you voted to pay increase your rent. This is a situation where they need to take responsibility and not blame others. But they are not and are going to blame politicians.

I equally blame the people too for their situation, not just the politicians. They vote even though they don’t fully understand what they are voting for.

 
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Xzi

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But people solely want to put the blame on Republicans. They both screwed it up.
Shit like that just doesn't happen with a Democrat-controlled government. The GWB administration knew exactly what they were doing when they cut taxes after starting two wars, then gutted regulations on the housing market and wall street to top it all off. Or if they didn't, then it was their ignorance that caused the final straw to break.

There's a reason we elected a Democrat to clean everything up afterward, and it wasn't because they were "equally responsible." Republicans were pretending they never supported GWB to begin with by that point, because even they knew who caused the problem. We'll see the exact same thing happen once Trump causes another recession.

Today, Trump rejected a shutdown deal negotiated amongst his own party:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...tdown-deal-republicans-negotiated-republicans

Really does show that nobody can negotiate with a toddler. In the end, they're just going to have to defect and re-open government without giving Trump anything. Otherwise there are going to be a lot of pissed Americans wondering where their tax refunds are.
 
Last edited by Xzi,

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