Who should pay for the US/Mexican wall?

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by Taleweaver, Jan 9, 2019.

?
  1. US citizens: we'll pay so much we'll become so poor the bad gringo's will steal elsewhere

    8 vote(s)
    4.3%
  2. Mexico: surely they don't want to make Trump look like a liar, right?

    14 vote(s)
    7.6%
  3. US millionaires and billionaires: because apparently they love putting walls around people they love

    11 vote(s)
    5.9%
  4. Donald J. Trump: the one person on the planet who's really passionate about building it

    45 vote(s)
    24.3%
  5. No one: I'm with border specialists, congress and the democrats who believe it's a waste of money

    90 vote(s)
    48.6%
  6. I strongly object to the subjective nature of this poll! Also: I'm a sourpuss who doesn't get humor

    17 vote(s)
    9.2%
  1. Taleweaver
    OP

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Pfff...I can hardly make time for this thread anymore. There are some very interesting things being said, but I really don't have the time to reply to everyone. Sorry. :(

    I know you don't mean it as such, but I'll take that as a compliment. From my perspective, most of what Donald's doing is basically saying "here...go catch" when he says something. By the time his critics have fundamental proof that he's lying, he just throws another lie out to catch. Result: in the mean time, he's using that "benefit of the doubt" time to convince the remaining people (those too uneducated to second guess whatever he's saying) that those people researching things are the enemy.
    Funny: I get the same tiring feeling for the very same reason in this argument. It's just not plural: there is only one celebrity (he happens to be president) and at best one news station on Trump's side.

    No one's arguing the problem, so don't bother with those numbers. But if the majority of those illegal Mexicans come in through airports or with green cards, then THAT is where you should focus the solution.

    Could be, but even so: they're irrelevant. Trump could dress and talk like a normal person, but with the same (lack of) arguments he has, he still won't convince anyone. It'd probably turn down the personal attacks a bit, though.

    But on topic: since you dish intellectual opinions for being "elite"...do you really want to talk about economy and national well being? I can discuss quite a bit on fallacies like "stealing American jobs" or "immigrants are bad for the economy", but either I make things up as I go along (which you won't like because 'lack of sources'), or either I research (which you won't like because 'I don't have an opinion of my own'). If you're going to dislike it either way, then - no offence - I'm done arguing with you.
     
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  2. DarthDub

    DarthDub Amateur Hacker

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    Your mom's basement.
    I heard on the radio that Trump could use the military to build the wall.
     
  3. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    He's back to threatening a declaration of national emergency. In which case the money would indeed be taken from the military and disaster relief funds. A federal judge could strike that down pretty quick, though.
     
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  4. Taleweaver
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    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    That would be an interesting twist, but TBH I think the presenter mostly forgot to add "Trump says...".

    From what I can make of this, this is true IF he can convince "Pentagon lawyers that the situation there constitutes a threat to national security – a true national emergency, and not a law enforcement matter" (source).

    I'm not very proficient in US army spending. I know USA has the largest army (and spends the most on it), but even so, I think this would take a huge bite out of army budget that could be located at useful targets. So...I don't think those pentagon lawyers are quickly going to come through to Trump. I mean...it's not like there is any southern army amassing at the border or anything. And Trump firing Mattis probably didn't help much in that regard either.
     
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  5. SuzieJoeBob

    SuzieJoeBob NOT a New Member

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    1) Don't get me wrong; Donald Trump's method of debate/insulting and subsequent temper tantrums like a 3-year-old are highly unrespectable as a person, let alone as the spokesperson for an entire nation. He needs to grow the hell up and treat his position with the respect it deserves, as well as stop making claims just to create news headlines about himself.

    2) Hispanic immigrants are not stealing jobs; they are doing the ones that most Americans find beneath them, but then complain are being stolen from them. Most of the ones compliaining about jobs being stolen by Hispanics are the same ones that vegitate on their couches and milk the government for Social Security, food stamps, and welfare.

    3) People that manipulate government programs for unnecessary handouts (citizens AND illegal/legal immigrants) DO harm the economy, while ones that aren't don't. Assistance is supposed to be for people whom cannot get by on what they currently have, not for people that want to live lavish lifestyles at the taxpayers' expense.

    4) Both sides of my family came to the United States the LEGAL way, selling much of what they had to get here. The reason aquiring citizenship is such an expensive undertaking is to see who is truly serious about becoming a citizen. Unfortunately, the pathway to citizenship is TOO expensive and is a major deterrent for that exact same reason.

    If countries allowed the United States to run more in-depth background checks using the immigrants' original home countries' citizenship information (and vice-versa), the ability for people to become citizens of the United States would be much less rigorous.
     
    Last edited by SuzieJoeBob, Jan 13, 2019 - Reason: "for would be much less rigorous." --> removed 'for'
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  6. Ericthegreat

    Ericthegreat Not New Member

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    "Donald J. Trump: the one person on the planet who's really passionate about building it" Eh, seems a good amount of us citizens (people who voted for him) are quite happy with the wall.
     
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  7. Tigran

    Tigran GBAtemp Maniac

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    Not enough to fund it according to the GoFundme.
     
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  8. Lilith Valentine

    Lilith Valentine GBATemp's Wolf-husky™ Now chibi!

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    Just a reminder for anyone who supports the wall, planes and boats still exist. A wall is a waste of money and you are stupid if you believe it would do anything
     
    Last edited by Lilith Valentine, Jan 13, 2019
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  9. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    A wall as envisioned/talked about would do something. Whether that something would justify the cost is an entirely different matter.
     
  10. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Maniac

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    You know, that's a great line. Makes me realize not only should Donald J Trump pay for the wall, he should build it himself. One could call it "hard labor". One could call it "something to do in between tweets because the government is shutdown anyways". I just like the idea of vision of Trump out there on the southern border with shovel in hand, some bags of cement, etc trying to build that wall.
     
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  11. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    They shouldn't be, since they were also promised Mexico would pay for the wall. They're short-sighted idiots willing to forgive any flaw or lie, though.

    Also worth remembering that many of the people who are in support of the wall don't see a need for the government to be shut down over negotiations for it.
     
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  12. Taleweaver
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    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Well,then they should get on record about it. Rally in the street. Hold banners and make sure you support your president. I'm not a us citizen, and from what I hear, it really appears as if he's the only person in the world who believes in it.
    In case you hadn't noticed :your government is in shutdown over the issue having people voice their opinions seems pretty ligitimate (on both sides, BTW).

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Someone even made him a nice plan, complete with a single nimbus key:
    Warning: Spoilers inside!
     
    Last edited by Taleweaver, Jan 14, 2019 - Reason: Picture is larger than it looked on a mobile phone -> put between spoilers
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  13. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Maniac

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    You know Trump. He'll lose the plans, break the key, and then blame the Democrats, all while sitting in the Oval Office. Having to actually life a finger to do actual work? That's too much. Besides, everyone knows you got to liter the plans with "Trump" (possibly embossed on each slat) or he'll lose interest after a few seconds.
     
  14. Lumstar

    Lumstar Princess

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    The whole shebang is flawed from the start. If this money were put toward addressing WHY people flee Mexico in such numbers...
     
  15. Retro_Mod_Gamer

    Retro_Mod_Gamer Advanced Member

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    First of all I just want to point out that I don't understand the need people have to bring Trump into literally EVERYTHING, including our little online playgrounds where we are supposed to unite for our love of video games... aside from that, here's what I have to say to this obviously anti-Trump post.

    Do you want open borders or well-funded social programs? Pick one. Both cannot simultaneously exist because it is unsustainable. If you disagree with this, please explain how you can achieve both, I assure you they are mutually exclusive.

    Open borders? No social programs.
    Welfare state? Shuttered borders.
     
    Last edited by Retro_Mod_Gamer, Jan 14, 2019
  16. Tigran

    Tigran GBAtemp Maniac

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    Well.. for one.. This is the world news section.. Two.. the reason why he is being brought up. The mother fucking cum guzzling ass fucking Putin cock sucking zubat is the one who SHUT OUR GOVERNMENT DOWN because he literally has to win a dick waving contest.

    And no.. Just because you don't understand how the fuck shit works, doesn't mean it goes the way you -think- it does.

    His wall would cost a HUGE amount every year just to keep operated, hell in order to fund it, he wants to pull from Disaster relief and department of homeland security, *Which I don't like.. but don't say we need to do it for security then gut you're goddamn security division! Unless YOU would be willing to use you're doors to build a fence around you're yard!

    That still ignores that most undocumented immagrints came in LEGALLY *so you can't even argue that they broke the law to get here* and simply stayed.

    But here is a logical solution to combating some of the problems... Fine/Arrest the people who HIRE undocumented immigrants. If the "Job opportunity" dried up... a lot of the issues would go away. Also.. the asshole mcasshole face kept ignoring that the people with the caravans were there to LEGALLY APPLY for asylum.

    But no.. you're just probably afraid some brown person is going to come after you.
     
  17. Retro_Mod_Gamer

    Retro_Mod_Gamer Advanced Member

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    Ah yes the ad hominem attacks and make it about me. "[I'm]...afraid some brown person is going to come after [me]". I don't even live in the USA so how can you make this about me being afraid?

    Adding 3b to border security isn't much money in the scale of a Federal budget, Schumer and Pelosi can end the shutdown tomorrow but they refuse to negotiate at all.

    I'm fine with open borders, I'm fine with social programs, they are just incompatible. I'm not seeing your argument for how they can coexist.

    It's already illegal to hire undocumented immigrants, punishable with criminal fines and loss of business licenses. I know this, and you think I don't understand how stuff works? You're just an angry person who hates Trump and doesn't care about the facts. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display for all.
     
  18. SuzieJoeBob

    SuzieJoeBob NOT a New Member

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    I really wish those walls were available as Legos. It would have saved me hours when building Lego buildings as a kid...
     
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  19. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    The hell are you talking about? Firstly, nobody is advocating for "open borders." Secondly, we've had social programs for well over half a century now, regardless of what immigration policy changes have been made over the years. The two are completely separate issues with completely separate funding. We can work out funding for border security, a path to citizenship, and still expand current social programs or implement new ones. None of this requires the government to be shut down to accomplish.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jan 14, 2019
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  20. Retro_Mod_Gamer

    Retro_Mod_Gamer Advanced Member

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    A path to citizenship is great, but a lot of the same people that are against borders are also for free healthcare and education. If you let everyone in to receive the social programs the burden becomes too great and they collapse. People need to decide if borders matter or not as one issue, and then if they should be enforced or not as a separate issue. We've had political discourse with as much nuance as "If Trump is for it, I'm against it" for two years now and it's tiring as hell.
     
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