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Free Speech is Democracy's Downfall (Sean Illing) [Original Title: Free speech is essential for democracy. Could it also be democracy’s downfall?]

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smf

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Hopefully people will be in power who care for truth so that we can have a culture that supports this notion.
If the people in power don't care for truth then you have bigger problems (for example see Trump).

Some of us don't think people like Hitler/Putin/Trump should be able to get into power, even if >50% of the people vote for them. Because democracy isn't brainwashing people.
 

Creamu

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If the people in power don't care for truth then you have bigger problems (for example see Trump).
Don't look at Trump he is just one of the trees of a great forest of liars of the whole aparatus. Merchants were never known for honesty.
 
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TraderPatTX

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Your style of communication comes across as someone who can't have an adult conversation.

I do use discernment, which is why I wouldn't protect Alex Jones right to free speech after he has abused it so rigorously.

It's not because I disagree with his opinion, it's that he is purposefully lying to make money and those lies are impacting peoples health and they didn't consent to being lied to. Trump et al have realized there is easy money to be made from people who are easy to manipulate & protecting those people is one of societies roles.

I would have a problem with anyone doing that, no matter what the message they were selling
So if you can take the right to free speech away, you can't call it a right. What other rights are you willing to take away from people who have committed no crimes? Are you willing to round up a particular religious group and send them to camps because they said unapproved words that hurt your feelings? Where exactly is the red line with leftists? Do you want the government to release a list of approved words that we are allowed to say so nobody's feelings get hurt?

The saying "sticks and stones..." that kids say seems to be pertinent for you.
 

TraderPatTX

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There certainly is. If you fall for the caducean right or left it indicates some cognitive deficiency.

Hopefully people will be in power who care for truth so that we can have a culture that supports this notion.
Imagine believing only Trump and people on the right lie to make money. The leftists on this site argue like children.
 
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mrdude

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Only communists and fascists censor speech.

You could use discernment too, but choose not to.

Maybe you could actually have a serious adult conversation instead of slinging insults like a petulant child?
Yep, only commies, lefty's and facists want to silence other people - while they do some unhinged screeching at others.

Humans are the only animal ever in the existance of life on earth that have tried to silence another being of the same species. Personally I would like to go back to the cavemen type days where I could go berry picking, fishing and hunting animals on free land that belongs to eveyone - instead I have to live in a world where mongs with green hair pretent to be something they are not, the rich have stolen everything for themselves and some commie twat is trying to tell me what I can say and what I can't.

To all commie lefties out there - F U! If I was a caveman I would kill you, steal your stuff and have my way with your female, if she was of a suitable breeding age, was reasonably good looking and didn't smell like a wet dog or a commie.
 

TraderPatTX

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The whole thing is a mess. It's plain to see. Are they seriously missing this or are they malicious actors?
It is obvious that what they are doing is purposeful. Nobody who is dumb gets to those positions. If you wanted to destroy a country, the best way to do it would be to do everything we've seen in the last 18+ months. Who is dumb enough to raise taxes on the middle class during a recession? Don't attribute ineptitude to what is obviously malicious.
 
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Creamu

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It is obvious that what they are doing is purposeful. Nobody who is dumb gets to those positions. If you wanted to destroy a country, the best way to do it would be to do everything we've seen in the last 18+ months. Who is dumb enough to raise taxes on the middle class during a recession? Don't attribute ineptitude to what is obviously malicious.
What is your impression about there motivations. Payed actors? Fanatics?
 

Xzi

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Who is dumb enough to raise taxes on the middle class during a recession?
Are you referring to the law passed by the Trump administration which increases taxes on the middle and lower classes every two years until 2027? Because the only tax increases built into the Inflation Reduction Act are on businesses, specifically those that generate more than a billion in profit annually. That sure as shit ain't "middle class" lmao.
 

UltraDolphinRevolution

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"So Democrats accept the constraints of liberalism, and Republicans ruthlessly exploit the advantages our media and our political system afford them. They’re playing different games."
Actually, the Republicans are playing the Democrat´s game. "Look at our token blacks. The Democrats are the real racists!" or trying to overtake them on the left by promoting transgender candidates.
"I’m not claiming that liberal democracy is dead. I would never claim that. I mean, it’s a possibility. But I am saying that the age of liberal democracy is over. And that means that this long postwar period of mostly stable liberal democracy was a period in which a gatekeeping media system managed a norms-driven discourse. And that is over."
This guy does not even notice his own contradictions. Democracy is the rule of the people. If the people need to be reined in by a gatekeeping media, they are not ruling! Sheep don´t rule. They are ruled.

BTW if the protection of minorities is a feature of any democracy, then all Baltic states are not democratic because they don´t even give citizenship to Russians. Neither would Israel be a democracy (or Ukraine, obviously).
 

TraderPatTX

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Are you referring to the law passed by the Trump administration which increases taxes on the middle and lower classes every two years until 2027? Because the only tax increases built into the Inflation Reduction Act are on businesses, specifically those that generate more than a billion in profit annually. That sure as shit ain't "middle class" lmao.
That is a lie. The Inflation Reduction Act, which will not reduce inflation since it's going to spend an additional hundreds of billions of dollars, will tax everybody making above $40k. You have been lied to. Get off of the state-run media and actually do some research yourself.

PS. Your TDS is showing. The executive branch does not pass laws. That would be Congress. While your researching, go take a basic civics class or watch a Schoolhouse Rocks cartoon.
 
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TraderPatTX

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Actually, the Republicans are playing the Democrat´s game. "Look at our token blacks. The Democrats are the real racists!" or trying to overtake them on the left by promoting transgender candidates.

This guy does not even notice his own contradictions. Democracy is the rule of the people. If the people need to be reined in by a gatekeeping media, they are not ruling! Sheep don´t rule. They are ruled.

BTW if the protection of minorities is a feature of any democracy, then all Baltic states are not democratic because they don´t even give citizenship to Russians. Neither would Israel be a democracy (or Ukraine, obviously).
The protection of minorities is a feature of a republic, not a democracy. Democracy is mob rule by the majority. Hence why the left want to remove all checks and balances in the constitution to create their utopian democracy.
 
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Xzi

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The Inflation Reduction Act ... will tax everybody making above $40k.
I literally cannot find any source claiming this except you. It's not even in Fox News articles about the bill.

Get off of the state-run media and actually do some research yourself.
Oh okay, so it's just bullshit you picked up on 8chan or something. Thanks for clarifying.

PS. Your TDS is showing. The executive branch does not pass laws. That would be Congress.
How predictably disingenous. As if the executive has no part whatsoever in proposing bills or ratifying them into law. :rolleyes:
 

UltraDolphinRevolution

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Human nature is simple. You can test who is in power by looking at who is against free speech (and who is for it). Prophet Muhammad was for it in Mekka, against it after Medina. Christians were for it before the Christianization of Rome (e.g. praying to their God) and persecuted free speech afterwards, e.g. calling them heretics.
It is clear who the heretics are today in the West. Therefore we know who is in power. In the 50s and 60s the left was for free speech because they were not in power ("liberal"). Humans are easier to read than an AI in a strategy game on easy settings.
 
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Xzi

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Human nature is simple. You can test who is in power by looking at who is against free speech (and who is for it). Prophet Muhammad was for it in Mekka, against it after Medina. Christians were for it before the Christianization of Rome (e.g. praying to their God) and persecuted free speech afterwards, e.g. calling them heretics.
It is clear who the heretics are today in the West. Therefore we know who is in power. In the 50s and 60s the left was for free speech because they were not in power ("liberal"). Humans are easier to read than an AI in a strategy game on easy settings.
This doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Authoritarians always want to limit or eliminate the right to free speech, regardless of whether they identify as communist or fascist, and regardless of whether they hold power at a given time. Since we don't have a leftist party in the US, let alone a far left one, the vast majority of authoritarian thinkers flock to the Republican party.
 

Dark_Ansem

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Some of us don't think people like Hitler/Putin/Trump should be able to get into power, even if >50% of the people vote for them. Because democracy isn't brainwashing people.

Which didn't happen either way tbh because if you remember trump was elected by a minority and Putin killed / incarcerated every opposition leader.
 

Dark_Ansem

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And what about those you encounter in this forum?

I'll turn thr question on you: what do you make of those fanatics fascists that haunt these forums and happily claim they'd beat up "alphabet people" and murder others and rape their wives just because they think differently than them? Aren't those the signs of cult mentality and radicalisation to quasi terrorist behaviour?
 
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