Free Speech is Democracy's Downfall (Sean Illing) [Original Title: Free speech is essential for democracy. Could it also be democracy’s downfall?]

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

This from the Russian who literally suppoers Putin? Seriously?

I´m not Russian. Having citizenship and belonging to a people are not the same.
I don´t support Putin. I support Xi. When they resolved a border dispute, they made a 50-50 deal, ignoring that Russia stole a huge part of China in the 19th century.

That said, can you contradict anything I have said? You can´t. That´s why you resort to irrelevant personal aspects. I repeat: Those who are for free speech today will be against it tomorrow once they seize power. It´s human nature. Today, the left is in power in the Western world. You don´t get censored for supporting BLM, LGBTQ etc, you might even get paid to participating in those events. If today´s free speech advocates seize power one day, they will limit it with regards to BLM, LGBTQ etc. It´s very unlikely, however.

In the distant future it might happen if Latin Americans in the US or Muslims in Europe become more influential. Today, they are the leftists´ best friends, but they actually don´t share their values. There are no Latin Americans saying "Latinx" or Muslims in Germany using the weird glottal stop "*innen" in order to include transgender invididuals.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

I´m not Russian. Having citizenship and belonging to a people are not the same.
I don´t support Putin. I support Xi. When they resolved a border dispute, they made a 50-50 deal, ignoring that Russia stole a huge part of China in the 19th century.

That said, can you contradict anything I have said? You can´t. That´s why you resort to irrelevant personal aspects. I repeat: Those who are for free speech today will be against it tomorrow once they seize power. It´s human nature.

I obviously can, since it's a load of shite. You also contradict yourself, but that's another matter entirely.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

I obviously can, since it's a load of shite. You also contradict yourself, but that's another matter entirely.

Be more specific. I also added some content just now. What am I wrong about?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Be more specific. I also added some content just now. What am I wrong about?

First of all, your nonsensical idea that "layla" is "getting banned" in Germany by the "68 generation". There is obviously no such thing. One city decided not to play it at a folk festival, which is attended by people of all ages, because its pretty much a song about a sex worker in a brothel. I believe you can understand why the festival organisers may feel it is inadequate. And it is by no means a ban, since it keeps topping listening charts in Germany and pretty much anyone who wants can play it.

Are you saying that such things like compulsory playlists should exist?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Today, the left is in power in the Western world. You don´t get censored for supporting BLM, LGBTQ etc, you might even get paid to participating in those events. If today´s free speech advocates seize power one day, they will limit it with regards to BLM, LGBTQ etc. It´s very unlikely, however

More contradictions and shite.

Left in power? At best the centre is in power.

Secondly, thank you for saying that "free speech advocates" are, in fact, reactionary fascists who want to censor literally anything they don't like. Which proves how all those "free speech champions" like Dumbo Jones or Ben Cretiniro are, in fact, only for listening to their own BS and could not care less for the freedom of others.

In the distant future it might happen if Latin Americans in the US or Muslims in Europe become more influential. Today, they are the leftists´ best friends, but they actually don´t share their values. There are no Latin Americans saying "Latinx" or Muslims in Germany using the weird glottal stop "*innen" in order to include transgender invididuals.

So, more shite. First of all, Latin Americans in the US are by no means reactionary pigs. If you're talking about DR and Brazil, speak plainly, as you're just likely talking about people who don't represent the entirety of these folk.

Secondly, this whole idea of Muslisms becoming "more influential": it is my personal belief it won't happen. Children of Muslim immigrants in the west tend to appreciate western customs more than their parents'. So your fears of the west becoming a Muslim theocracy, a theory peddled by far right pundits, isn't likely to happen.

 

[Acid_Snake]

So, more shite. First of all, Latin Americans in the US are by no means reactionary pigs.

Except most of us are turning Republican because none of you in the left give a single fuck about us.
Good to know that the tolerant left calls me a pig after I had to flee a dictatorship that called me a maggot.
Of course you wouldn't know this since you never actually talk to latinos.

I´m not Russian. Having citizenship and belonging to a people are not the same.
I don´t support Putin. I support Xi. When they resolved a border dispute, they made a 50-50 deal, ignoring that Russia stole a huge part of China in the 19th century.

Fuck Xi Jin Ping and fuck the National-Blosheviks that run that country. Your ideology will be your own undoing. You (metaphorically) "castrate" your own population and you wanna compete? With who? You can' evet have the best scientists, and you'll never have the best scientists. Science requires an open mind and new ideas, impossible things in a totalitarian shithole like China. You're gonna fall like Nazi Germany and the USSR fell: under the weight of your own actions.

 

[luisedgarf]

Except most of us are turning Republican because none of you in the left give a single fuck about us.
Good to know that the tolerant left calls me a pig after I had to flee a dictatorship that called me a maggot.
Of course you wouldn't know this since you never actually talk to latinos.


Fuck Xi Jin Ping and fuck the National-Blosheviks that run that country. Your ideology will be your own undoing. You (metaphorically) "castrate" your own population and you wanna compete? With who? You can' evet have the best scientists, and you'll never have the best scientists. Science requires an open mind and new ideas, impossible things in a totalitarian shithole like China. You're gonna fall like Nazi Germany and the USSR fell: under the weight of your own actions.

And that without mention their probable responsability in their whole coronavirus pandemic, due to the death of millions of people.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Except most of us are turning Republican because none of you in the left give a single fuck about us.
Good to know that the tolerant left calls me a pig after I had to flee a dictatorship that called me a maggot.
Of course you wouldn't know this since you never actually talk to latinos.

Thats great, assuming I believe you, then you can happily vote for your deportation and for people who actually consider you maggots. Village idiots exist everywhere, and yours must be missing you. Which grievances you feel are being left unaddressed and somehow the Republicans will fix, considering they can't even fix their own issues? Do tell, dumbass.

And that without mention their probable responsability in their whole coronavirus pandemic, due to the death of millions of people.

The responsibility of the Republicans who claimed it was a hoax? Or the Chinese?

Science requires an open mind and new ideas, impossible things in a totalitarian shithole like China.

Science requires also expertise and rigour, which the Chinese do possess. Also, noted how not a single word about Putin. You must be a particularly unpleasant Latin, where are you from again?

 

[Acid_Snake]

Thats great, assuming I believe you, then you can happily vote for your deportation and for people who actually consider you maggots. Village idiots exist everywhere, and yours must be missing you. Which grievances you feel are being left unaddressed and somehow the Republicans will fix, considering they can't even fix their own issues? Do tell, dumbass.

The responsibility of the Republicans who claimed it was a hoax? Or the Chinese?

Science requires also expertise and rigour, which the Chinese do possess. Also, noted how not a single word about Putin. You must be a particularly unpleasant Latin, where are you from again?

oh now I remember, you're that brain dead iliterate amoeba that's unable to have a decent normal conversation so you resort to react with emojis like a 5 year old.

Have you learn any new vocabulary since the last time I schooled your ass?

Also, funny how it's a leftie that brought up deportation, never have I heard a republican talk to me about that.
Scratch a progressive and you'll find a fascist.

I lived in the US during Bush years without any papers, in one of the most blarantly Republican states of the country (Florida, you might have heard of it, though I doubt you'd be able to pinpoint it on a map). Nobody deported me, nor the many other latinos I met, as long as you weren't breaking any laws, I was able to study in public school, was able to get vaccinated and attend doctors, I lived my life like any other citizen. Everyone I ever met was republican, including the Latinos.

Also, I knew you were going to defend the Chinese, the ones building concentration camps to exterminate a racial minority.
The ones that censor black people in Hollywood movies, the ones that disappear political opponents, the Nazis of the 21st Century.

Little history lesson: modern medicine has a lot to "thank" the Nazis and their attrocities, so you are defending what the Nazis did.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

First of all, your nonsensical idea that "layla" is "getting banned" in Germany by the "68 generation". There is obviously no such thing. One city decided not to play it at a folk festival, which is attended by people of all ages, because its pretty much a song about a sex worker in a brothel. I believe you can understand why the festival organisers may feel it is inadequate. And it is by no means a ban, since it keeps topping listening charts in Germany and pretty much anyone who wants can play it.

Are you saying that such things like compulsory playlists should exist?

It was banned on festivals in two cities. Since the ´68 generation is currently running countries (though retiring soon), it is not difficult to see why they would ban this song. And we don´t even need to guess: it has been stated that the song is objectifying women. The sexual content is not a problem to them (e.g. "Ten naked female hairdressers").
But even if I agree with you that it was decency (religious or otherwise) that caused the song to be banned at
folk festivals, my argument still stands: Their right-wing parents (by today´s standards most of which would be racist, sexist, homophobes) banned "satanic" rock´n roll songs while the ´68 generation stood for freedom and liberty. But once in power, the ´68 generation wants to ban things they disapprove of and even demand people use certain pronouns etc.

BTW I used the word ban in the general sense. A ban does not have to be mean outlawed. Youtube can ban a video, for example.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Secondly, thank you for saying that "free speech advocates" are...

You´re welcome. I am able to analyze the situation. As I said, it´s human nature.
You said the centre is in power, not the left. A cheap way out.
Would you say it is more left than right?
Let´s compare:
Jan 6th "insurrection: mild damage on the capitol, 1 death (of the protesters), persecution of the protesters
Summer of love 2020: damages in the billions, stores looted, people killed, government buildings attacked, a part of town occupied (speaking of insurrection...) called "Chaz"; going on for months across the country

The people in power play down the latter and hype up the former. We know who is in power. Just imagine the opposite had happened.

So, more shite. First of all, Latin Americans in the US are by no means reactionary pigs. If you're talking about DR and Brazil, speak plainly, as you're just likely talking about people who don't represent the entirety of these folk.

Secondly, this whole idea of Muslisms becoming "more influential": it is my personal belief it won't happen. Children of Muslim immigrants in the west tend to appreciate western customs more than their parents'. So your fears of the west becoming a Muslim theocracy, a theory peddled by far right pundits, isn't likely to happen.

Latin Americans vote more left but not as strongly as African Americans. Their views are often more conservative than the white liberal studies graduates who try to convince them to use the term "Latinx".
We don´t need to speculate about Muslims. In Germany there is data on this: the 3rd generation is less integrated than the first (which makes sense: how can they identify with a people who hate themselves? they even came up with the term "victim" for Germans).
Imagine Germany 2050: Welfare has decreased. The Muslims have increased in number. They are younger and more ethnically aware. The Germans want to ban their practice of meat production which they interpret as an attack on their culture. I for one welcome our new overlords.

 

[Xzi]

You are a victim of party politics. I´m talking about the big picture. What I said is absolutely correct:
Humans as a collective are less tolerant when they are in power. The ´68 generation was against banning rock songs that displeased their parents. Today, the ´68 generation is in power and wants to ban songs they deem offensive, e.g. the song Layla in Germany at the moment. The line "La la la Layla, she was more beautiful, younger, hotter" is too offensive to the ´68 generation because it objectifies women, they claim.

The intolerant stay intolerant regardless of whether they control all the power or none of it. Calls for civility and a degree of self moderation in speech are not the same thing as calls to ban free speech. When it comes to vehemently opposing freedom of speech, the most prominent example I can think of would be burning books, and again, that's an activity almost entirely exclusive to one side of the political spectrum; at least here in the US.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

Secondly, this whole idea of Muslisms becoming "more influential": it is my personal belief it won't happen. Children of Muslim immigrants in the west tend to appreciate western customs more than their parents'. So your fears of the west becoming a Muslim theocracy, a theory peddled by far right pundits, isn't likely to happen.

if anything this could be used as an excuse to install a christian theocracy for them aka
scapegoat one religion to stoke another to gain power

 

[Deleted member 586536]

Jan 6th "insurrection: mild damage on the capitol, 1 death (of the protesters), persecution of the protesters

Really?

Summer of love 2020: damages in the billions, stores looted, people killed, government buildings attacked, a part of town occupied (speaking of insurrection...) called "Chaz"; going on for months across the country

Really... Do I really sigh

Okay. let's talk the part you left out.

Jan 6th "insurrection: mild damage on the capitol, 1 death (of the protesters), persecution of the protesters

First off, this was marching into the capital building.
Second off, this STOPPED the election certification process.
Thirdly, they were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" we also know now from the Oath Keepers. that they wanted to do harm to Nancy Pelosi.
Fourthly, TRUMP KNEW they had weapons.
Fifthly uh, pipe bombs???? remember that???

And also by the way, I really love how you said "persecution of the protestors"
Because let's not kid ourselves for a even a second. Those weren't protestors that entered that building. They had one goal, to reinstall Trump as president. May it be believing what he said as genuine and acting on that rage. Or through Proud boys/Oath Keepers, who are fascists who want to take power.

Summer of love 2020: damages in the billions, stores looted, people killed, government buildings attacked, a part of town occupied (speaking of insurrection...) called "Chaz"; going on for months across the country

This simply isn't going to compare in your favor. You cannot compare a coup attempt of a fucking government, to months worth of protests and damages. Chaz wasn't even a insurrection. They didn't try to forcefully overtake the government by threatening the election process or leaders. Jan 6th tried to do that.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Have you learn any new vocabulary since the last time I schooled your ass?

Eh? We have never engaged before, and you certainly can't school anybody with your ridiculous lies

Also, I knew you were going to defend the Chinese, the ones building concentration camps to exterminate a racial minority.

I didn't defend anybody. Man, you so need to get back to school.

Also, funny how it's a leftie that brought up deportation, never have I heard a republican talk to me about that.

Maybe you need to clean your ears then? they must be full of wax and shite.

I lived in the US during Bush years without any papers, in one of the most blarantly Republican states of the country (Florida, you might have heard of it, though I doubt you'd be able to pinpoint it on a map). Nobody deported me, nor the many other latinos I met, as long as you weren't breaking any laws, I was able to study in public school, was able to get vaccinated and attend doctors, I lived my life like any other citizen. Everyone I ever met was republican, including the Latinos.

Oh, my word, anectodes which can't be verified, how truthful.

I seriously don't remember who you are.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

It was banned on festivals in two cities. Since the ´68 generation is currently running countries (though retiring soon), it is not difficult to see why they would ban this song. And we don´t even need to guess: it has been stated that the song is objectifying women. The sexual content is not a problem to them (e.g. "Ten naked female hairdressers").
But even if I agree with you that it was decency (religious or otherwise) that caused the song to be banned at
folk festivals, my argument still stands: Their right-wing parents (by today´s standards most of which would be racist, sexist, homophobes) banned "satanic" rock´n roll songs while the ´68 generation stood for freedom and liberty. But once in power, the ´68 generation wants to ban things they disapprove of and even demand people use certain pronouns etc.

BTW I used the word ban in the general sense. A ban does not have to be mean outlawed. Youtube can ban a video, for example.

They simply decided not to air it, and it's not like they HAD to. So I'm not sure why you're getting so hung up for a song about hookers?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Latin Americans vote more left but not as strongly as African Americans. Their views are often more conservative than the white liberal studies graduates who try to convince them to use the term "Latinx".
We don´t need to speculate about Muslims. In Germany there is data on this: the 3rd generation is less integrated than the first (which makes sense: how can they identify with a people who hate themselves? they even came up with the term "victim" for Germans).
Imagine Germany 2050: Welfare has decreased. The Muslims have increased in number. They are younger and more ethnically aware. The Germans want to ban their practice of meat production which they interpret as an attack on their culture. I for one welcome our new overlords.

Ah, imagine X = make up stuff to justify your nonsense.

You´re welcome. I am able to analyze the situation. As I said, it´s human nature.
You said the centre is in power, not the left. A cheap way out.
Would you say it is more left than right?
Let´s compare:
Jan 6th "insurrection: mild damage on the capitol, 1 death (of the protesters), persecution of the protesters
Summer of love 2020: damages in the billions, stores looted, people killed, government buildings attacked, a part of town occupied (speaking of insurrection...) called "Chaz"; going on for months across the country

The people in power play down the latter and hype up the former. We know who is in power. Just imagine the opposite had happened

No, you're really not, as you're kinda lost in your web of contradictions and lies.
Ah, so the truth is a cheap way out, ok, great to know.

Jan 6 terror attack, incited by the former US president? that terror attack?

Summer of 2020: attacks carried out by the Proud Boys, the far right fascist group, masquerading as BLM protesters.
People killed? You mean by the murderer Rittenhouse or by the police? Those people?

The people in power in 2020 were the RepubliKKKans, did you forget?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Also, I knew you were going to defend the Chinese, the ones building concentration camps to exterminate a racial minority.
The ones that censor black people in Hollywood movies, the ones that disappear political opponents, the Nazis of the 21st Century.

Little history lesson: modern medicine has a lot to "thank" the Nazis and their attrocities, so you are defending what the Nazis did.

You're literally not making sense and I highly doubt you'd school a toddler, let alone me. But you seem the unhinged crazy type. Please do follow the nice men in the white coat

 

[LainaGabranth]

Free speech is unironically not real as a concept because one person's speech will end up suppressing or even outright silencing another's, and many intend to do so with it. The idea of a big, equal world where everyone can communicate freely with one another is nothing more than a delusional pipe dream at best, and a lie pushed by people who just want to espouse far right views with no repercussions whatsoever at worst.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

Free speech is unironically not real as a concept because one person's speech will end up suppressing or even outright silencing another's, and many intend to do so with it. The idea of a big, equal world where everyone can communicate freely with one another is nothing more than a delusional pipe dream at best, and a lie pushed by people who just want to espouse far right views with no repercussions whatsoever at worst.

Isn't it hilarious, in a very tragic way, that for all his talk about imaginary child exploitation rings and homophobic talk Fatso Jones was found with trans (not unlike someone else here on GBA temp) and child porn on his phone?