Wii U Disc Backups?

Discussion in 'Wii U - Hacking & Backup Loaders' started by TiMeBoMb4u2, Jan 17, 2013.

Jan 17, 2013

Wii U Disc Backups? by TiMeBoMb4u2 at 4:13 AM (40,477 Views / 0 Likes) 24 replies

  1. TiMeBoMb4u2
    OP

    Member TiMeBoMb4u2 GBAtemp Maniac

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    Even though we are unable to play Wii U backups... Is there anyone working on Wii U Disc backups, or do we need to know how the Wii U reads the disc, first?
     


  2. d.d.d.

    Member d.d.d. GBAtemp Fan

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    I'm pretty sure someone is working on it but isn't disclosing that information to prevent preemptive anti-hacking attempts from Nintendo.
     
  3. driverdis

    Member driverdis I am Justice

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    Wii U backups are going to be real interesting to store and backup. considering they can be upto ~25GB in size. not sure if Nintendo will allow 50GB dual layer games yet. they should considering how they had single layer games until Smash Bros Brawl on the Wii. Someone's got to be working on it but in reality, playing and storing said backups will be a problem. until that is solved. it really will not matter much if people figure out how to dump games as most likely, only "scene" groups will have the hardware/and or software to dump games. and not many will sit down and download 25GB "backups" from "the scene" considering how large they are. and how many parts they would be in. that does not inlude how much space people would need to store games on a hard drive. 25GB/game fills drives up real fast.
     
  4. KiiWii

    Member KiiWii GBAtemp Psycho!

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    NSMB:U is 1.73GB... what a waste of a disc.

    Once "they" fully figure out decrypting the disc it will be like PS3: decrypted backup directories rather than 1:1 encrypted ISO's.
     
  5. sudeki300

    Member sudeki300 GBAtemp Fan

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    even though the games can be up to 25GB doesn't mean they will be anywhere near that size apart from a few games, just look at the PS3 dumps to get an idea. even though they are on blu-ray discs that can hold up to 50GB, most games are between 10-20GB some of the well known games coming in under 8GB. no matter what the size is there will be people willing to sit and download the backup regardless of the size of the disc image. cos the disc can hold 25GB's of data does not mean that every game will be 25GB in size, i wouldn't be surprised if some of those wii U games are even under the size of a 4.5 GB dvd............................sudeki300
     
  6. Cyan

    Global Moderator Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    Of course the game's data can be any size, but I'm sure he talked about the Disc's data.
    Like the Wii, every games takes full disc size. The game use dummy files to fill the disc up to it's full size, then encrypts it. (or the way around, encrypts each block then adds dummy sectors).

    What it means is that if you RAW Dump the disc, you will probably find yourself with 25GB of encrypted data for ALL games, even if the game is only 1GB of actual used data.


    There are possibility to read discs in raw mode, bit by bit from start to end.
    tmbinc's blog showed raw disc reading using a modified Audio CD reader (which doesn't rely on checksum verification unlike computer's disc readers firmwares)

    Reading RAW WiiU disc won't let you read game's data as it will be encrypted.
    What would be interesting is to see how the data are stored physically on the WiiU disc. The Wii disc use a different aligment than the DVD specification and a different scramble*, I'm curious to see if they used the same method from bluRay specs.

    *I don't understand what the scrambling is used for. I've read ECMA specs of optical disc, but I still don't understand the purpose.
     
  7. Captain_N

    Member Captain_N GBAtemp Fan

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    I think that within the year there will be dumps of the discs. as for the 25GB im glad im getting a blu ray burner soon. I can store all the rars on blu-ray so i can keep my server drives from filling with iso's
     
  8. mike333

    Member mike333 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    For real collectors 25GB per disc isn't an issue at all.
    Some of them will use WIA:U format for storage in 1:1, decryption and compression mode.
    Average Joe will be happy with .wbfsu files.
     
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  9. d.d.d.

    Member d.d.d. GBAtemp Fan

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    If you go onto the e-shop you can see the size of the games on there. I think the largest is 8~9GB.
    Even on the PS3, I don't think there are too many games that are actually 25GB+, but it's nice to have the option for developers.
     
  10. Ray Lewis

    Banned Ray Lewis Banned

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    I was wondering if anyone looked at firmware and the drive in more detail. I've seen a few pics; is the Wii U drive SATA? Interesting if somebody has looked at or even dumped the drive firmware. Could probably tell a LOT about security, checks, etc. I was curious and it looks like a ribbon connection for the drive: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/1 and so firmware may take some soldering:-(
     
  11. Hielkenator

    Member Hielkenator GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Agreed, and if they do surpass 10 GB it usually is because of HD Video content.
     
  12. d.d.d.

    Member d.d.d. GBAtemp Fan

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    Yep. And then the video is shrunk down to fit on a DVD-9 for the 360 for multiplats. ;)
    Well, I still think that the 25GB disc will be fine for the Wii U for a long time until (and if) developers actually treat the Wii U as a real HD machine and use real HD video and GFX (at least PS360+ level). Basically ignoring the limitation of DVD-9 and the overall difficulties to hit 1080P (PS360), then we might start seeing some games that use that kind of space. And when that happens, 2TB drives will be even cheaper so I'm not really too worried about that.
     
  13. Scuba156

    Member Scuba156 GBAtemp Fan

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    Games typically use real time cut scenes instead of FMV's, and disc space has nothing to do with being able to do 1080p.
     
  14. Stalkid64X

    Newcomer Stalkid64X Advanced Member

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    It does if you want to store vast amounts of uncompressed artwork/texturing or audio assets... Which you do if you want to properly exploit the resolution.
     
  15. Scuba156

    Member Scuba156 GBAtemp Fan

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    In a sense yes, but there's ways to decompress those assets on the fly and other techniques . I'm not arguing that it's not the way forward for games, just that the resolution it's displayed at is independent to the amount of data in the game. I do agree that having more disc space can help allow the developers to construct a higher detailed world.

    One example is Assassins Creed III. Ps3 and 360 versions is just over 11Gb, while the Wii U version which doesn't offer any graphical/audio improvement over the 360 version comes in at 18Gb.
     
  16. d.d.d.

    Member d.d.d. GBAtemp Fan

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    True for real-time. Though for 1080P, assets still have to be created in the size of 1920x1080 and you do need storage for that. It has a lot more to do with it than just storage but you still need more storage than anything SD for HD.
     
  17. Scuba156

    Member Scuba156 GBAtemp Fan

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    What do you mean by assets will have to created in the size of 1920x1080? Not to offend but that comment alone sounds like you don't really understand game development / 3D modeling environments.

    FMV's and audio take up the most space and then textures. Textures will be in lots of varying resolutions. Character and environment models are not pre rendered and will be rendered in code at the output resolution of the scene that's been created in said code. Having lots of high resolution textures (and multiples of those textures in different resolutions for different draw distances) will use up lots of space which is needed for rich environments and highly detailed world's, yes, but there not needed to render a scene in 1080 resolution which is the point I was trying to make. To make it clear, a lot of storage is NOT needed for 1080p resolution, a lot of space IS needed for high details.

    In your previous post you mentioned that less space makes it difficult for games to run at 1080p, its really the opposite. With more assists and bigger textures it gets harder to hit 1080p at a desirable frame rate. Most higher detailed games on the PS3 and 360 generally render the scene at a lower resolution and upscale to 1080p as the hardware can't handle it, with the amount of RAM being a big limiting factor as the assets have to be able to fit inside the RAM along with the running code and variables. Having less assets and smaller textures can help in rendering at a true 1080p resoltion as there's less work being done by the hardware, with the trade offs to that being obvious.

    Hopefully that clears what I meant and helps inform, it really is getting off topic though :P
     
  18. d.d.d.

    Member d.d.d. GBAtemp Fan

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    :teach:
     
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  19. Stalkid64X

    Newcomer Stalkid64X Advanced Member

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    Note in addition to that that most are ignorant of the fact that the vast majority of even AAA titles for 360 or PS3 also display in not 1080P, but not even 720P, more often being sub-HD resolutions. I believe for example that it has taken until Halo 4 for that franchise to even hit 720P. The main part of this last generation these supposed "HD" consoles have in fact been running at ~2004 PC resolutions.
     
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  20. Scuba156

    Member Scuba156 GBAtemp Fan

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    I was going to mention a few games and at what resolution they render at but couldn't be bothered researching haha. Ones off the top of my head are Halo, COD and GTA IV. Some render as low as 576 resolutions but aren't noticed by most people. This is also with Blue ray on the PS3, which proves my point that bigger storage does not equal 1080p which was solely my point.
     

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