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What exactly are women marching for?

Nerdtendo

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Wow, a controversy board. If it's here, I might as well use it.

So.... What exactly were women marching for? I did a quick Google search and all the Wikipedia page said was "women's rights". That was vague so I Googled women's rights which told me, "Issues commonly associated with notions of women's rights include, though are not limited to, the right: to bodily integrity and autonomy; to be free from sexual violence; to vote; to hold public office; to enter into legal contracts; to have equal rights in family law; to work; to fair wages or equal pay; to have reproductive rights; to own property; to education." I'll go through these 1 by 1 because I'm confused.

Autonomy - so they want to make a self-governing country? Why?

Be free from sexual violence - this is a very real problem and a horrible one at that, but marching for it is like protesting against robbery. This world is evil and so are the people in it. You can't stop crime. There are certain measures you can take to reduce crime but you can't tell criminals to stop.

Equal rights in family law - please enlighten me. Don't we already have this?

To work - we've had that one for a while now. Good job

Equal pay - i have no critisism on this one. Equal pay should be real.

Reproductive rights - is that supposed to be like abortion and whatnot? If so, they already have the right to abort.

To own property - Already have it. Good job

Education - Already have it. Good job.

So it seems to me that only one of these reasons has much weight to it. That reason is equal pay. If that's really it, then why aren't they just marching for equal pay?

Now I'm really not trying to start a fight. I genuinely want someone to show me the other side of the coin. Thank you and have a nice day.
 
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their marching because apparently men are worth literally nothing, and women are superior in every way.

There is a bigger push to get women into the workforce than there is men any more, and women are the ones who can bear children and have the best tools/instincts to care for them. So, effectively they are marching for things that either:
A.) Already exist (right to abort, right to vote, etc)
B.) Cannot be changed (sexual abuse is hard to change when there are evil people in the world)
C.) Cannot be proven*

I'm not gonna lie, I have strong, strong opinions about these movements. And I support what they want (as long as it is B and C) but chances are they won't get what they want. I am not a fan of the modern feminist movement (or at least the vocal minority) of Women > Men.

* It is hard to prove the wage gap. Sure, you can pull up statistics of how women aren't getting paid as much as men. Let's say their an English teacher. If the woman get's payed minimum wage and the man gets payed $2 above minimum wage, can you prove it is because of the gender? Wage is based off of experience, your level of education, where you got your education, where you have lived, etc. The chances of somebody having the exact same scenario on both sides is next to none.
 

FAST6191

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Bodily/person autonomy is different to nations/regions being autonomous. But yes it is one of those things which already exists and has for a while now.

"Equal pay should be real."
Is it not already real? There are laws on the books, seemingly well enforced ones at that, saying justifying payment differences with "because they are a woman" is really not OK. What else is there?

Reproductive rights.
It goes to more but abortion would be the major one. While it is there if you want to look into what some states/locations do as far as making it really hard for places where you can get one to operate (some of the requirements almost make it death by a thousand cuts). If you are already poor you may not be able to drive hundreds of kilometres to one, possibly take several days off work and have to sort childcare.
 

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It's easy: if you tell a group of people that they are oppressed, they will eventually believe it and act accordingly.

Autonomy - an adult woman can take decisions like an adult man*

Be free from sexual violence - well, according to many people in this forum, victims always deserve what they get for some reason. I don't think the same way. Rape is horrible. However, not only it isn't a controversial subject (you will never hear people on the streets defending rapists*) and a judge will always stay behind a woman who tazed/shot a rapist, but the voice of a woman is much stronger than the man. If a woman accuses someone of rape, especially in the US, they will be, in most cases, guilty until proven innocent. And rarely punished in case of false accusations as well. You're a student? Forget your college.

To work - while I agree that some companies rarely do discriminate women, those are 99% of the time due to the company being small and on budget and not taking the risk of hiring a woman for one year that might spend 6 months away for paid maternity leave. You forced companies to accept this burden and some of them can't really take it. The law should be changed. Also, a lot of countries require companies to hire a certain percentage of women no matter their skill level. So yeah.

Equal pay - bullshit*. One hundred percent bullshit*.

Reproductive rights - they have the right to do whatever they want with their body already*. But what about men? If a couple wants to have a baby and the woman is pregnant but she changes her mind, why doesn't the man have any right?

To own property - lol*

Education - considering how women obtain scolarships and specific courses all the time just because they have a vagina, this offends me. A lot.



* This can all be true in some Muslim countries, but... why aren't they protesting there then?



By the way, let me add something that a lot of people don't consider an issue or a "first world problem": try being part of the 1% like me and find a woman that honestly wants to be with you because she loves you.
 

DeoNaught

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RustInPeace

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The march this year is automatically better than last year because Madonna wasn't wobbling about looking like a fucking ghoul trying to capture the 90s hip-hop fashion. Also, so far the only people that commented here are men, I'm more interested in a woman's answer to this question.

Plus the only thing I took away from the march personally was Scarlett Johansson calling out James Franco (not by name). Apparently she has issue with him but has defended Woody Allen in the past. I feel like with her, it's an example of gossip being the new form of criminal charges against a man in question, moreso than actual criminal investigations against men of power (Spacey and Weinstein). If that's what this movement continues to amount to, I'd rather see the celebrities speaking up for it, in movies where they aren't in ideal situations. For example a few weeks ago I saw Rose McGowan getting killed by a garage door in Scream and that was entertaining. Even before the movement, I viewed her as a monster, where the last thing she should get is a legitimate reason to vent, and she's been getting that.
 

Nerdtendo

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The march this year is automatically better than last year because Madonna wasn't wobbling about looking like a fucking ghoul trying to capture the 90s hip-hop fashion. Also, so far the only people that commented here are men, I'm more interested in a woman's answer to this question.

Plus the only thing I took away from the march personally was Scarlett Johansson calling out James Franco (not by name). Apparently she has issue with him but has defended Woody Allen in the past. I feel like with her, it's an example of gossip being the new form of criminal charges against a man in question, moreso than actual criminal investigations against men of power (Spacey and Weinstein). If that's what this movement continues to amount to, I'd rather see the celebrities speaking up for it, in movies where they aren't in ideal situations. For example a few weeks ago I saw Rose McGowan getting killed by a garage door in Scream and that was entertaining. Even before the movement, I viewed her as a monster, where the last thing she should get is a legitimate reason to vent, and she's been getting that.
Yeah, I was hoping for a woman's point of view too, but thanks everyone for your input.
 
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SG854

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Wow, a controversy board. If it's here, I might as well use it.

So.... What exactly were women marching for? I did a quick Google search and all the Wikipedia page said was "women's rights". That was vague so I Googled women's rights which told me, "Issues commonly associated with notions of women's rights include, though are not limited to, the right: to bodily integrity and autonomy; to be free from sexual violence; to vote; to hold public office; to enter into legal contracts; to have equal rights in family law; to work; to fair wages or equal pay; to have reproductive rights; to own property; to education." I'll go through these 1 by 1 because I'm confused.

Autonomy - so they want to make a self-governing country? Why?

Be free from sexual violence - this is a very real problem and a horrible one at that, but marching for it is like protesting against robbery. This world is evil and so are the people in it. You can't stop crime. There are certain measures you can take to reduce crime but you can't tell criminals to stop.

Equal rights in family law - please enlighten me. Don't we already have this?

To work - we've had that one for a while now. Good job

Equal pay - i have no critisism on this one. Equal pay should be real.

Reproductive rights - is that supposed to be like abortion and whatnot? If so, they already have the right to abort.

To own property - Already have it. Good job

Education - Already have it. Good job.

So it seems to me that only one of these reasons has much weight to it. That reason is equal pay. If that's really it, then why aren't they just marching for equal pay?

Now I'm really not trying to start a fight. I genuinely want someone to show me the other side of the coin. Thank you and have a nice day.
There are no laws that discriminate females, but there are laws written in ink that discriminate against males.

Equal rights in family law - We don't have equal rights in family law. Its males that get shitted on when it comes to family law.

Education - Most males did not have access to education throughout history either. Most people were farmers.

Even in 3rd world countries today, we have a problem educating males along with females. Look at Boko Haram. Its been around since the 80s. They were going around to schools and killing little boys trying to get an education, and burning them alive because they think western education is evil. The females they gave them a lecture and released them. No one cared to rescue the little boys.

The all of a sudden years after they were seeing that no one cared about the boys so they decided to kidnap, not kill girls, and all of a sudden everyone looses their shit. And ran campaigns to save they girls but boys being burned alive no one gave a shit. If this doesn't sound like denying boys education then I don't know what does.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/why...rning-boys-alive-wake-media-up-to-boko-haram/

This is a recurring theme you'll notice if you pay attention. No one gives a crap about males but females gets all the attention. Though its gotten a little better over the years and more people are noticing male issues.

Equal pay - You know what, screw it, i'm making another post about this in this thread. I've been wanting to talk about this for a while but been to lazy to write something.
 
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I didn't even follow it much this year, and actually didn't even know it happened again. I remember last year it was pretty much just a big protest march against Donald Trump, with a hodge-podge of liberal issues on display, many of which seemingly didn't have anything to do with women's rights at all. Had a bunch of my friends march around Seattle last year too (I was kinda indifferent to the whole spectacle), and they were going because of Trump. However, it seems this year it's a lot more pointed and focused. Whereas last year there wasn't a clear message anywhere that I could find (making it more of a pointless angst walk), this year seemed to actually be about women, especially in the wake of the #MeToo movement. The theme this year was (I think) solidarity in the face of workplace sexual discrimination that a lot of the fallout from the Harvey Weinstein situation has shed a light on, and that's something I can get behind.

Be free from sexual violence - this is a very real problem and a horrible one at that, but marching for it is like protesting against robbery.
I agree that you can't march against predators, but I don't think that's the point. Like the #MeToo movement, I think the point is to highlight discrimination where it happens and ensure that predators are caught, or removed from the places of power they prey from.

As for all the other issues, I think it's pretty silly to suggest that women don't have equal rights. Maybe you believe equal pay is a problem, alright, I can get behind that. Or maybe you're pro-abortion and want to speak up about keeping in place the right to abortions that the pro-life side (the one that controls the government right now) wants to take away, alright. I'm pretty neutral on this issue, I think both sides have good arguments. But the Women's March is clearly not a rights march, or if it is, it clearly doesn't make sense to be one. The march clearly needs a strong central message. Even something as simple as "solidarity against the hardships women face in society" would be enough to get me a nod and say, "alright, I get why they're marching." A key message is the cornerstone to an effective protest, not just "get out on the streets because you're angry at something."
 

SG854

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I didn't even follow it much this year, and actually didn't even know it happened again. I remember last year it was pretty much just a big protest march against Donald Trump, with a hodge-podge of liberal issues on display, many of which seemingly didn't have anything to do with women's rights at all. Had a bunch of my friends march around Seattle last year too (I was kinda indifferent to the whole spectacle), and they were going because of Trump. However, it seems this year it's a lot more pointed and focused. Whereas last year there wasn't a clear message anywhere that I could find (making it more of a pointless angst walk), this year seemed to actually be about women, especially in the wake of the #MeToo movement. The theme this year was (I think) solidarity in the face of workplace sexual discrimination that a lot of the fallout from the Harvey Weinstein situation has shed a light on, and that's something I can get behind.


I agree that you can't march against predators, but I don't think that's the point. Like the #MeToo movement, I think the point is to highlight discrimination where it happens and ensure that predators are caught, or removed from the places of power they prey from.

As for all the other issues, I think it's pretty silly to suggest that women don't have equal rights. Maybe you believe equal pay is a problem, alright, I can get behind that. Or maybe you're pro-abortion and want to speak up about keeping in place the right to abortions that the pro-life side (the one that controls the government right now) wants to take away, alright. I'm pretty neutral on this issue, I think both sides have good arguments. But the Women's March is clearly not a rights march, or if it is, it clearly doesn't make sense to be one. The march clearly needs a strong central message. Even something as simple as "solidarity against the hardships women face in society" would be enough to get me a nod and say, "alright, I get why they're marching." A key message is the cornerstone to an effective protest, not just "get out on the streets because you're angry at something."
You know what gets me about sexual offenses. You have women slapping and grabbing males asses in bars all the time but its not a sexual offense. But a male doing it to a female, all of a sudden he's a sexual predator that you have to watch out for. Male sexuality is considered more predatory then female sexuality.
 
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Xzi

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There are no laws that discriminate females, but there are laws written in ink that discriminate against males.
Dear god, this is what happens in an echo chamber. Yeah, all the men who established government and our nation's laws totally wrote them to fuck themselves over. Makes sense.

That's why Donald Trump can be born into wealth, sit on his fat ass all his life doing nothing, and then be elected president. Because he was being kept down by the woman Illuminati. /s
 
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FAST6191

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Be free from sexual violence - well, according to many people in this forum, victims always deserve what they get for some reason.

But what about men? If a couple wants to have a baby and the woman is pregnant but she changes her mind, why doesn't the man have any right?

I assume we are referring to the recent thread about stealing phones. In that case nobody said that. You made a false equivalence, when some then tried to explain the error of your logic you jumped to the assumption that they said they deserved things and ran with that. To accuse those you were in discussion with of saying deserve as it is typically defined is rather insulting, as well as being false.

For the second quoted part there is some interesting discussion to be had there (a good term to look up being financial abortion or paper abortion) but as you then may end up with people losing out (single parent households and the resulting outcomes and all that) I doubt we will see such things. Compelling an actual abortion under law is rather tricky if we take the first part of the list and go with bodily autonomy as being a good thing, same with the reverse of trying to block one from happening. That is also before we get to the edge cases in things like surrogacy and what has been dubbed spermjacking.
To that end the current thing of "if you are dude sleeping with ladies then there are risks so make sure you use a rubber properly hey" will probably have to be it. Hopefully that male pill thing gets the kinks worked out and we have a nice option like that to add into the mix.
 
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CallmeBerto

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Just thots being thots.

I honestly want someone to explain to me what rights men have that women don't.

Rape culture only exist from the male side. Nobody cares if I man is raped by other man or women. There are so many articles on female teachers raping boys and they never use the word rape and nobody fucking cares.

Wage gap is straight 100% bullshit. I mean this has debunked 100 times by now. If you still think this is real I can't help you.

@Xzi - Think he means family court system and the whole gender diversity.
 

Nerdtendo

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Just thots being thots.

I honestly want someone to explain to me what rights men have that women don't.

Rape culture only exist from the male side. Nobody cares if I man is raped by other man or women. There are so many articles on female teachers raping boys and they never use the word rape and nobody fucking cares.

Wage gap is straight 100% bullshit. I mean this has debunked 100 times by now. If you still think this is real I can't help you.

@Xzi - Think he means family court system and the whole gender diversity.
I hadn't even realized the wage gap was made up, or even thought to consider it for that matter. I guess this is a classic example of acting without research.
 

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