Hideki Kamiya: "PlayStation All-Stars is just a ripoff"

[Deleted_171835]

I've played Brawl extensively as well and they're not nearly as common as what is being presented here. They come up now and then but it's not even a core mechanic of the game. Most people actually complain that Final Smashes are too overpowered and turn them off.

Also, genre doesn't matter, you're calling it a rip off when plenty of other games that do the same thing as PASBR get a pass.

The game does have significant differences from SSB, face it.

They are pretty common and the majority of the knock-outs in a match were done while someone has the Final Smash. And the only people who actually disable the Final Smash because it's "overpowered" are competitive players. Still doesn't disprove my point, anyways.


Genre clearly fucking matters. Is Rayman Origins a copy of New Super Mario Bros? Is Final Fantasy X a copy of Tales of the Abyss? No? But they're both platformers and RPGs, right?

Smash Bros is a unique style of game that isn't a genre. From a conceptual standpoint, Playstation All Stars is clearly copying the 4-player mascot brawler idea. Yes, it has differences but that doesn't change the fact that it's a rip-off.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I've played Brawl extensively as well and they're not nearly as common as what is being presented here. They come up now and then but it's not even a core mechanic of the game. Most people actually complain that Final Smashes are too overpowered and turn them off.

Also, genre doesn't matter, you're calling it a rip off when plenty of other games that do the same thing as PASBR get a pass.

The game does have significant differences from SSB, face it.

They are pretty common and the majority of the knock-outs in a match were done while someone has the Final Smash. And the only people who actually disable the Final Smash because it's "overpowered" are competitive players. Still doesn't disprove my point, anyways.


Genre clearly fucking matters. Is Rayman Origins a copy of New Super Mario Bros? Is Final Fantasy X a copy of Tales of the Abyss? No? But they're both platformers and RPGs, right?

Smash Bros is a unique style of game that isn't a genre. From a conceptual standpoint, Playstation All Stars is clearly copying the 4-player mascot brawler idea. Yes, it has differences but that doesn't change the fact that it's a rip-off.

You must be playing with a really high item spawn rate or with some really bad people if the majority of KOs are from Smash Balls. Even then, it's different in PASBR. Power attacks are the only way to score points here. There's multiple ways to score in SSB.

These games are in the same genre. Don't try to say that SSB is not a genre-classifiable game. It's a fighter or a brawler, choose your pick. God forbid anything tries to take some pointers from it it's a "rip off".

How come you aren't so pissy over Jump! Ultimate Stars by the way?

4 player fighters aren't new. Franchise crossover fighting isn't new.

 

[KingVamp]

At this point, you guys are just going in circles. An agreement isn't going to happen.




I think Guild is being too giving and Soulx is being too harsh.

 

[Deleted_171835]

You must be playing with a really high item spawn rate or with some really bad people if the majority of KOs are from Smash Balls. Even then, it's different in PASBR. Power attacks are the only way to score points here. There's multiple ways to score in SSB.

These games are in the same genre. Don't try to say that SSB is not a genre-classifiable game. It's a fighter or a brawler, choose your pick. God forbid anything tries to take some pointers from it it's a "rip off".

How come you aren't so pissy over Jump! Ultimate Stars by the way?

4 player fighters aren't new. Franchise crossover fighting isn't new.

Yes? I already said that supers are the only way to score in All Stars making it the all-powerful attack.

Smash Bros can't exactly be classified as a genre. 4-players mascot-fighting game with items and stages based on various game series. I would say that it's pretty unique.

Jump! Ultimate Stars is unique enough that it can't be classified solely as a Smash clone. For one, the visual style is different considering it's 2D and uses sprites with anime-licensed characters.

Not to mention that the gameplay is different. Considering you keep bringing up the game, I would think that you should know that the gameplay is based off a panel system with you adding different 'komas' with different types (Battle, Support, Help). There also is the addition of a 'nature' aspect in which certain battle komas beat others. The gameplay is more unlike Smash Bros than All Stars gameplay.

4-player mascot fighters with items like Smash Bros are unique and are rarely done. That's what makes All Stars a ripoff. I don't even know why you're arguing something so obvious. Rip-off doesn't mean the game is bad, it just means that it copies Smash Bros goddamnit.

 

[Gahars]

@soulx

1) PSBAR doesn't have one consistent aesthetic when it comes to the stages. They all look strikingly different based on the games they're inspired from (You're telling me that God of War has a "water-colour-esque" look to them? Seriously?). A game with a colorful aesthetic is represented by a stage with a colorful aesthetic, while a game with a darker, grimmer aesthetic is represented by (surprise, surprise!) a stage with a darker, grimmer aesthetic. What are you missing here?

I was kidding before, but I seriously have to wonder if you're looking at the right game here. I'm kind of starting to doubt you watched the video you posted before (let alone any videos of the game at all).

2) Because that's how super moves work! Come on, this is not a new mechanic. Brawl in no way, shape, or form invented them (unless you're somehow trying to argue that the Street Fighter franchise stole the idea retroactively). And as Guild mentions, both games handle them very differently. Come on, man, this isn't difficult.

3) Guild pretty much hit the nail on the head on this part. Beyond that, it's not even a straight up copy. Sure, there's a timer on screen, but it's not like Nintendo pioneered the concept of showing players how much time is left in a match. The character icons are on the bottom, but that's a sensible spot to place them; having the little markers is also just common sense (Unless you'd rather players not know which character they're controlling at all). The Smash Bros. icons show players how much damage they've taken while PSBAR's (if I'm remembering this correctly) only acts as a super meter.

Taking inspiration from a successful UI and developing it down a different path to deliver something different? Total thievery, obviously.

4) No, really?

5) The problem is (I'd argue), the term rip-off comes loaded with negative connotations no matter what the intention is of the speaker. Anyway, there's a huge difference between copying and taking inspiration.

Is this game influenced by the Smash Bros. series? Obviously, and no one here has denied that. From everything we've been shown, though, the game seems to be diverging enough that it isn't a complete copy. The developers have made it clear that they're trying to bring something new to the formula.

Will it work out? The game isn't in our hands yet, so we can't really say. Maybe the final product will be radically different from the Smash Bros. franchise; maybe the previews and interviews we've seen so far have just been misleading and this doesn't set itself apart in any meaningful way. We don't know, and we won't know for at least several months. I'm sorry, Soulx, but your attempts at precognition leave a lot to be desired; we're all just going to have to be patient and wait before we can judge it for sure.

6) Ah yes, because harshly judging an unreleased game he has yet to play, deriding it as a complete rip-off, and flippantly whining about it over Twitter is a clear display of his dedication to integrity.

When the game goes against his core values, there is no need to play the game to make judgment. Once again, there is nothing wrong with his comments.

I kind of miss Prowler's habit of saving choice quotes, because this one is golden. I'll write it down somewhere just so I don't forget it!

 

[DS1]

Apparently I forgot to mention this, but the Super Move = Win Game mechanic was started with an old-school DBZ game that I never played (though my friend was always talking about), and then repeated with the Groove Adventure Rave games for GBA (and surprise, nobody said, OMG CLONE OF DBZ GAME!!!), probably because people were too busy trying to call Rave a clone of One Piece, hahaha.

Smash Brother's system is unique in that damage taken = heavier physics, and the object is to smack people off the stage so that they can't float back. This is dissimilar to ringouts and pretty much any pre-Smash game I've ever played. Being that Sony is not using this system (to the best of my knowledge), I see no reason to use it in an argument.

 

[gamefan5]

For one, the visual style is different considering it's 2D and uses sprites with anime-licensed characters.

I've read the rest of your thread. But the visual of a game doesn't make a game a rip-off or not. It's the gameplay mechanics.

SSB doesn't make a genre imo, it belongs to one. No matter how different it is in terms of gameplay mechanics, it still stays true to the fighting genre.

 

[Deleted_171835]

@soulx

1) PSBAR doesn't have one consistent aesthetic when it comes to the stages. They all look strikingly different based on the games they're inspired from (You're telling me that God of War has a "water-colour-esque" look to them? Seriously?). A game with a colorful aesthetic is represented by a stage with a colorful aesthetic, while a game with a darker, grimmer aesthetic is represented by (surprise, surprise!) a stage with a darker, grimmer aesthetic. What are you missing here?

I was kidding before, but I seriously have to wonder if you're looking at the right game here. I'm kind of starting to doubt you watched the video you posted before (let alone any videos of the game at all).

Look at the God of War stage.

I see purple trees in the back, a glow effect on the characters and cute little creatures in the background (don't know the game series so I can't name them). While this is all subjective, I feel that this gives it a more cheerful aesthetic. It's certainly not gritty or dark.

3) Guild pretty much hit the nail on the head on this part. Beyond that, it's not even a straight up copy. Sure, there's a timer on screen, but it's not like Nintendo pioneered the concept of showing players how much time is left in a match. The character icons are on the bottom, but that's a sensible spot to place them; having the little markers is also just common sense (Unless you'd rather players not know which character they're controlling at all). The Smash Bros. icons show players how much damage they've taken while PSBAR's (if I'm remembering this correctly) only acts as a super meter.

Taking inspiration from a successful UI and developing it down a different path to deliver something different? Total thievery, obviously.

The UI elements being similar are just to build on my point of the games having a similar look which you argued against. I'm not criticizing them for that.

5) The problem is (I'd argue), the term rip-off comes loaded with negative connotations no matter what the intention is of the speaker. Anyway, there's a huge difference between copying and taking inspiration.

Is this game influenced by the Smash Bros. series? Obviously, and no one here has denied that. From everything we've been shown, though, the game seems to be diverging enough that it isn't a complete copy. The developers have made it clear that they're trying to bring something new to the formula.

Will it work out? The game isn't in our hands yet, so we can't really say. Maybe the final product will be radically different from the Smash Bros. franchise; maybe the previews and interviews we've seen so far have just been misleading and this doesn't set itself apart in any meaningful way. We don't know, and we won't know for at least several months. I'm sorry, Soulx, but your attempts at precognition leave a lot to be desired; we're all just going to have to be patient and wait before we can judge it for sure.

Copying and taking inspiration? Two different ways of saying the same damn thing except that one seems nicer.

The product is nearing the beta stages. At that point, there will be no drastic changes but rather bug fixes and other minor improvements since they are nearing release. It isn't going to be radically different from what we have already seen.

The game at its core copies Smash Bros with the 4-player mascot brawler idea. The other things I'm mentioning (visual style, UI elements, etc.) are just the icing on the cake.

6) Ah yes, because harshly judging an unreleased game he has yet to play, deriding it as a complete rip-off, and flippantly whining about it over Twitter is a clear display of his dedication to integrity.

Stating "it's a ripoff" on Twitter is harshly judging, "whining", and deriding it. God, talk about an exaggeration. All he said was that he didn't like the game because he thinks it's a rip-off. For the thousandth time, there is nothing wrong with that.


----

I've read the rest of your thread. But the visual of a game doesn't make a game a rip-off or not. It's the gameplay mechanics.

SSB doesn't make a genre imo, it belongs to one. No matter how different it is in terms of gameplay mechanics, it still stays true to the fighting genre.

Visuals are one aspect in whether a game is a ripoff or not but no, it isn't the only thing.

It's different enough that it can't be lumped into the general fighting game genre (Street Fighter-style).

 

[gamefan5]

It's different enough that it can't be lumped into the general fighting game genre (Street Fighter-style).

I know that but it's certainly a Fighting game.
As for visuals, lots of games can be classified as the same visuals for JUMP. So I wouldn't put it as a proof for that. No matter how similar it is.
A rip-off can have a different kind of visuals but it can be labeled as a copy of the game if it has the same gameplay mechanics.

Hell, Zenonia has a very similar graphic style to the Super Nintendo 2D games such as Final fantasy and Zelda. And yet it isn't a rip-off due to it's gameplay mechanics, even if there are some similarities.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

@soulx please use spoilers on the images.

Also, do realize that stages transition in the game. It's transitioning from the God of War to Patapon stage. From someone "grim", as Gahars described it, to something "watercolor-esque", as you described it. That alone is a different art style than SSB. Hell the whole stage transitioning mechanic sets apart the art pretty well. When a game's stage can go from something dark like God of War to something picturesque like Patapon, that's a different aesthetic. It clashes multiple styles of art to make something new.

The UI is just a fucking retarded point, I'm sorry. If we criticized games for having similar UIs then every UI would look absolutely retarded. If it ain't broke, don't change it. What would you do with the UI? Put it at the top for no reason at all? Put it above our characters to have this obnoxious, hard to follow meter? It shows the character you're playing with and their super bar. That's what it needs. It doesn't even have an icon for the franchise they're from behind them, something that's been notable in the SSB UI since its inception.

Um, his demeanor is really complaining, bitching, and whining. There's stating something as a professional opinion and being whiny about it. He was being whiny. Image we were having a normal conversation in real life using these words. Would I be saying his statement in a professional tone of voice or just shouting about it?

If we're harshly judging games without playing them...

Kid Icarus: Uprising looks like an obnoxious game with an annoying protagonist and bland art.

Pikmin 3 looks just as boring as the other Pikmin games.

Resident Evil: Revelations still looks like a bland portable Resident Evil with bad controls and inferior graphics to the VITA MASTER RACE.

Now you'll probably want to defend all these but these games go against my core values so I don't need to play the game to judge it.

Also if your core values are fucking video games then I suggest you shoot yourself directly in the face with a hand cannon.

 

[Gahars]

@soulx

1) Okay

That's Patapon blending into background, so of course that looks exactly like Patapon. The core of the stage, taken from/inspired by God of War(the giant, the area the characters are fighting on), remains aesthetically consistent. Troll baiting or not, that's some desperate straw grasping.

2)

Look at the two games, the gameplay is so similar that if you were to add Nintendo characters and tell me that All Stars was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you.

Gameplay does not equal UI.

3) And no, no they definitely are not. Copying is, well, just copying. Taking inspiration is using something as a starting point and moving on from there. It's a pretty big difference; to use just one example, it's the difference between a good remake, and a boring retread.

And arguing that we can judge unreleased, unfinished games (without so much as a public demo yet)? Are you kidding me?

4) We've been over this; continuing to defend his immature outbursts isn't going to retroactively them any better.

 

[gamefan5]

snip

Sometimes I wish I could argue as well as you do. XD

 

[Deleted_171835]

@soulx please use spoilers on the images.

Also, do realize that stages transition in the game. It's transitioning from the God of War to Patapon stage. From someone "grim", as Gahars described it, to something "watercolor-esque", as you described it. That alone is a different art style than SSB. Hell the whole stage transitioning mechanic sets apart the art pretty well. When a game's stage can go from something dark like God of War to something picturesque like Patapon, that's a different aesthetic. It clashes multiple styles of art to make something new.

The UI is just a fucking retarded point, I'm sorry. If we criticized games for having similar UIs then every UI would look absolutely retarded. If it ain't broke, don't change it. What would you do with the UI? Put it at the top for no reason at all? Put it above our characters to have this obnoxious, hard to follow meter? It shows the character you're playing with and their super bar. That's what it needs. It doesn't even have an icon for the franchise they're from behind them, something that's been notable in the SSB UI since its inception.

Um, his demeanor is really complaining, bitching, and whining. There's stating something as a professional opinion and being whiny about it. He was being whiny. Image we were having a normal conversation in real life using these words. Would I be saying his statement in a professional tone of voice or just shouting about it?

I'm looking at this stage right here (one of the supposed gritty ones) and guess what, that doesn't look very dark to me.

Where you see a grim stage, I see colourful lighting and a soft blur effect (don't know how else to explain it) on the characters. I looked at a number of other stages in the game and what do you know, they all have a relatively cheerful visual aesthetic to them.

The UI is simply another aspect on how the games look similar. I argued that if you replaced the characters with Nintendo characters and showed me All Stars footage claiming it was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you. I'm not saying they should change it, it's just another reason as to why the games look similar.


Kamiya's demeanour isn't any of the things you've mentioned. I don't know how you get "bitching, whining and complaining" from "It's a rip-off". And guess what, it's Twitter. He can only elaborate so much without breaking the word limit. I said it a bunch of times and I'll say it again, there isn't anything wrong with what he said.

If we're harshly judging games without playing them...

Kid Icarus: Uprising looks like an obnoxious game with an annoying protagonist and bland art.

Pikmin 3 looks just as boring as the other Pikmin games.

Resident Evil: Revelations still looks like a bland portable Resident Evil with bad controls and inferior graphics to the VITA MASTER RACE.

Now you'll probably want to defend all these but these games go against my core values so I don't need to play the game to judge it.

Also if your core values are fucking video games then I suggest you shoot yourself directly in the face with a hand cannon.

Guild, this tells me nothing except that you're a fucking idiot (assuming that you actually hold these opinions).

When I say core values, I'm referring to his video-game development philosophy, not his view on life and shit. You're just referring to some of your dumb opinions.

@soulx

1) Okay

That's Patapon blending into background, so of course that looks exactly like Patapon. The core of the stage, taken from/inspired by God of War(the giant, the area the characters are fighting on), remains aesthetically consistent. Troll baiting or not, that's some desperate straw grasping.

2)

Look at the two games, the gameplay is so similar that if you were to add Nintendo characters and tell me that All Stars was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you.

Gameplay does not equal UI.

3) And no, no they definitely are not. Copying is, well, just copying. Taking inspiration is using something as a starting point and moving on from there. It's a pretty big difference; to use just one example, it's the difference between a good remake, and a boring retread.

And arguing that we can judge unreleased, unfinished games (without so much as a public demo yet)? Are you kidding me?

4) We've been over this; continuing to defend his immature outbursts isn't going to retroactively them any better.

The stage does not look grim or dark but I went over that in my response to Guild.


And I was referring to the game in general, not gameplay (error on my part). My point still stands.


In this case, they seem to be the same. Yes, the creators were clearly inspired enough by Smash Bros. to make a game similar enough featuring Sony characters. They also copied the general idea of the game (4 player mascot brawler with items like I said) and various other aspects while adding some new things.

You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons. Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an immature comment.

 

[gamefan5]

You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons. Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an immature comment.

But the fact that he said it without even trying the game IS!!! That's what Gahars is trying to SAY!
Looking at it without even get the feel out of said game is not enough.

 

[Deleted_171835]

You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons. Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an immature comment.

But the fact that he said it without even trying the game IS!!! That's what Gahars is trying to SAY!
Looking at it without even get the feel out of said game is not enough.

Why don't you look through my previous posts? I already went over that.

 

[gamefan5]

You continue to claim that his comments are immature without providing any valid reasons. Stating that the game is a rip-off is not an immature comment.

But the fact that he said it without even trying the game IS!!! That's what Gahars is trying to SAY!
Looking at it without even get the feel out of said game is not enough.

Why don't you look through my previous posts? I already went over that.

I did dude. If you're talking about graphics and the UI and everything like that, than no it's still not enough.
Similarity is there. But it's no copying whatsoever. It's taking a few elements from another game and use it to make something different out of it.
Plenty of games have done that.

 

[Deleted_171835]

I did dude. If you're talking about graphics and the UI and everything like that, than no it's still not enough.
Similarity is there. But it's no copying whatsoever. It's taking a few elements from another game and use it to make something different out of it.
Plenty of games have done that.

gamefan5, I'm arguing with enough people as it is. I have no desire to argue with you too. Why don't you sit down and let the big boys talk?



I already went over how it was copying (given that Smash Bros is a four-player mascot brawler with items) and I'm not going to elaborate further to you.

 

[Alex221]

Fucking asians think they own the place... Hey hideki kamiya aren't you a fucking ripoff of other asians??? because you all look the fucking same to me
Back on topic:

If playstation all stars is a ripoff of brawl then call of duty is a ripoff of battlefield...

 

[gamefan5]

I did dude. If you're talking about graphics and the UI and everything like that, than no it's still not enough.
Similarity is there. But it's no copying whatsoever. It's taking a few elements from another game and use it to make something different out of it.
Plenty of games have done that.

gamefan5, I'm arguing with enough people as it is. I have no desire to argue with you too. Why don't you sit down and let the big boys talk?



I already went over how it was copying (given that Smash Bros is a four-player mascot brawler with items) and I'm not going to elaborate further to you.

Excuse me? Disrespectful are we?
I remember having a say in this forum too. What I say still stands.
If you don't like it, then just plain leave. Because so far, you're not doing a very good job at convincing others.

There isn't any amount of similarities that we'll make me say that it's a rip-off unless from experience or many reviews. Not because someone doesn't like like it by saying it and just by looking at some info of the game.

That's pretty much why I, myself, think that it was immature from writing that post. He even admitted that he thinks it's not very good when he didn't even play it. Clearly he said that from his tastes.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Fucking asians think they own the place... Hey hideki kamiya aren't you a fucking ripoff of other asians??? because you all look the fucking same to me

You've branched out into a new level of stupidity.


@[member='gamefan5']: Like I said, I have no desire to argue with you now. Read my previous posts if you want a response to your arguments.