Hideki Kamiya: "PlayStation All-Stars is just a ripoff"

[Deleted_171835]

Kayima is a game developer who has made several stellar original IPs and values artistic integrity. The fact that he doesn't approve of Playstation All Stars (a game that essentially copies Smash Bros) is entirely understandable. Nothing he has tweeted reads like a "pouty child" like you claim.

Both games are 4 player brawlers. They both have similar art styles. All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash. The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more). To deny that is daft.

It doesn't matter if you're the father of video games or the queen of England, his demeanor of posting was pouty. It wasn't just "I think PASBR looks not too good honestly", it was "IT'S A RIPOFF WAH".

Similar art styles? Are you not the one who cried about the games M-rated characters clashing with the art of the cuter, softer characters? Is that not different art in and of itself.

As for the rest, see my BlazBlue metaphor.

That isn't pouty at all. He is simply stating facts, that it is a ripoff and he doesn't like the game because of that. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't make it a childish statement.

And complaining about the character choices is different from commenting on the art style.

 

[Black-Ice]

I see all of your points.
I just don't understand why it matters.
I can guarantee we're making more fuss about this than the people Nintendo hire to do so. Which makes not much sense coz both probably wouldn't get anything from complaining anyway.

 

[Gahars]

Both games are 4 player brawlers . They both have similar art styles (...Are you looking at the right games here?). All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash (Super moves are in no way an invention of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the way they are handled is significantly different). The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more) (I hate to break this to you, but the concept of a ring out on a stage is nothing new. It's crazy, I know.). To deny that is daft. (So is crusading against this windmill Don Quixote-style.)

Since Guild already addressed the first part pretty well, I want to get to this.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Both games are 4 player brawlers . They both have similar art styles (...Are you looking at the right games here?). All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash (Super moves are in no way an invention of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the way they are handled is significantly different). The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more) (I hate to break this to you, but the concept of a ring out on a stage is nothing new. It's crazy, I know.). To deny that is daft. (So is crusading against this windmill Don Quixote-style.)

Since Guild already addressed the first part pretty well, I want to get to this.

Side note, you don't even ring out in this game. You get a super meter, fill it up, and use super attacks to gain points. It's not ringing out.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Both games are 4 player brawlers . They both have similar art styles (...Are you looking at the right games here?). All Stars has Supers in the same way that Smash Bros has the Final Smash (Super moves are in no way an invention of the Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and the way they are handled is significantly different). The entire feel of the game is like Smash Bros (with moves that knock characters off the stages platform and more) (I hate to break this to you, but the concept of a ring out on a stage is nothing new. It's crazy, I know.). To deny that is daft. (So is crusading against this windmill Don Quixote-style.)

Since Guild already addressed the first part pretty well, I want to get to this.

Smash Bros and All Stars both have a cartoon-like aesthetic (even if it doesn't fit well with some All Stars characters). It's evident in how the stage design is and how some characters are stylized.

Supers are obviously inspired by Final Smash. This is immediately apparently when comparing the two in that the animation when starting is even the same and that they both serve similar functions.

Look at the two games, the gameplay is so similar that if you were to add Nintendo characters and tell me that All Stars was Smash Bros Wii U, I would probably believe you.


Isaac has already elaborated more in his post before so I'm not going to continue further.

I don't understand why you guys are acting like Sony Defense Force members and arguing that it isn't a ripoff when one glance makes it clear that it is. Being a ripoff doesn't necessarily make it bad.

And to elaborate on what I was saying before, there is nothing wrong with Kamiya's comments. Like I already said, Kamiya dislikes the game because it's a ripoff and he values original games (understandable considering the games he made). Just because you guys don't agree with he says doesn't make it childish or "pouty"

 

[Taleweaver]

@OP:
Of course it's a rip off. So? Using someone else's idea is still the best form of flattery.


What I'm saying is...if someone came up with a brawler where GladOS and Leisure Suit Larry beat the crap out of Jim Raynor and Gordon Freeman in a background of The witcher...I bet everyone would cry bloody murder as well...and then place a pre-order.

 

[Gahars]

@soulx

1) Again, are you sure you're looking at the right games here? I mean, if you want just one example, look at your video; the God of War inspired stages look as far removed from cartoony as you can get with bloodthirsty mythological creatures. Smash Bros. creates a more consistent style for the characters (compare Brawl Mario and Galaxy Mario) while PASBR preserves each character's unique style. This isn't hard to see, right? Because I know some great professionals in the field who would be thrilled to help if it is.

2) Again, the supers in both games work like... supers in anything, so of course they are going to serve the same function. Characters power up and then unleash a powerful attack/take on a new form/etc. which boosts their effectiveness in combat in some way, shape or form. That's any super move in a nutshell, not something Brawl invented. (Now, if the exact methods of obtaining the super moves were the same in both games, this argument might hold a little more weight. They aren't, though, so it doesn't.)

3) Well, there's that vision problem again. Like I said, man, medical professionals are the way to go. (On another note,I don't like this sort of argument in general. It's just kind of vague and insubstantial; you could weakly apply it to anything. If you squint really hard, every game will eventually look alike. I don't know It just bugs me, is all.)

Isaac has already elaborated more in his post before so I'm not going to continue further.

4) I'm pretty sure 5 sentences counts as continuing further. You know, technically.

5) Because maybe it isn't? When it comes to your proof that PASBR has shamelessly stolen from the Smash Bros. series, you seem to be grasping at straws (and not the fun, bendy kind). (In all sincerity, a good chunk of this conflict seems to be based around conflicting views on what constitutes a rip-off, what sort of stigma is attached, etc. For my part, a rip-off is something that shamelessly and desperately takes from others without offering anything new in return. It's a harsh accusation, and one I think should save until, bar certain exceptions, the item in question is completed and released. What did you have in mind?)

6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.

 

[ouch123]

6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.

Funnily enough, Kamiya even criticized someone else for that very thing. Actually, there are enough inconsistencies with Kamiya's tweets that it almost seems as if he's trolling, but I dunno...
It seems like he also managed to not notice that Cartoon Network already made a SSB clone, and it was probably a lot more of a rip-off than this new game is going to be.

It's a nice statement. They like the genre, they know they're similar, but it's also their own creation. He's not Gameloft. He's not Zynga. He's taking an idea and making it his own. It's called "inspiration".

Van Gogh once said "Good artists copy, great artists steal." What he meant by this was that those that achieve greatness don't merely imitate others - they take what others have made and make it their own, thereby creating something unique and new from what currently exists. I don't see a problem with this new game myself; I think few people can say that they don't stand upon the shoulders of giants.

 

[DiscostewSM]

My only concern is if this turns successful, will they attempt to do it again?

 

[Evilengine]

The world needs Smash Brothers Versus Playstation All-Stars(Versus Capcom Versus Marvel Versus DC Versus Mugen)! Multiplatform, Nintend oFighters only available on WiiU and Sony Fighter only on PS3/Vita/PS4 or so.

 

[Qtis]

This is almost as smart as fighting over wether Apple owns a certain design type in general (not just the design of the iPhone, but all phones with touch screens and similar setup). As many have said, PASBR is inspired heavily by SSB. There is no denying it, why even bother? It's a genre we are talking about here. Just like FPS games are very heavily affected by each other and "all fighting games are the same" (which is not true of course).

SSB may have been original in the beginning, but nowadays it can be "defined" as a new genre in gaming just like FPS, RPG, etc. It's a 4 player fighting game. If you don't like the idea that someone else is making a similar type of game and maybe even making it in a new, possibly better way, don't buy it. That'll show developers that it's not worth investing in the games and it'll die out.

 

[Black-Ice]

This argument in a nutshell:
OMG BATTLEFIELD USES GUNS!!! ;O; ITS A COD RIP OFF ;O;
NO BATTLEFIELD USES DIFFERENT GUNS!!
OMG NOOOO COD USED GUNS FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE SUX ;O;
NO BATTLEFIELD USE DIFFERENT MAPS
OMG COD MADE MAPS WHERE YOU HAVE BUSHES FIRST EVERYTHING ELSE IS COPYING ;O;O;O.;O;


look at yourselves.

 

[Hadrian]

My only concern is if this turns successful, will they attempt to do it again?

Of course but being Sony the sequels might be more frequent or they might do some kinda of "Vs" release which is how they should be, these kind of games are best when there is only one for each gen. One of the reasons to why I hope the Wii U & 3DS Smash Bros titles are totally different to each other.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

My only concern is if this turns successful, will they attempt to do it again?

Of course but being Sony the sequels might be more frequent or they might do some kinda of "Vs" release which is how they should be, these kind of games are best when there is only one for each gen. One of the reasons to why I hope the Wii U & 3DS Smash Bros titles are totally different to each other.

Provided this is successful, a sequel will probably be PS4/Vita and you'll see some DLC support for the current game for some time (costumes, stages, characters, etc).

 

[Guild McCommunist]

6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.

Funnily enough, Kamiya even criticized someone else for that very thing. Actually, there are enough inconsistencies with Kamiya's tweets that it almost seems as if he's trolling, but I dunno...
It seems like he also managed to not notice that Cartoon Network already made a SSB clone, and it was probably a lot more of a rip-off than this new game is going to be.

There was also a TMNT SSB "clone" and I thought the Wii-exclusive multiplayer for Force Unleashed 2 was a bit like SSB (correct me if I'm wrong).

I actually remember people not hating on the Cartoon Network one when it was coming out because they were like "Hey, it might be SSB on the 3DS!" People didn't even hate on Jump! Super/Ultimate Stars. So we'll pass those up for hate but if Sony does one? They're fucking monsters!

EDIT: Actually, can someone explain to me why they fucking love Jump! Ultimate Stars enough to the point where it got a rather complete fan translation but get so goddamn pissed over this game? And don't try to tell me JUS was all that different from SSB.

 

[The Catboy]

6) There is nothing wrong with disliking what we've seen of the game so far, or feeling skeptical about it, or anything like that. That's not the problem, and never has been. The issue is (and Guild addressed this before) that Kamiya went beyond that. He's already passed judgement on an unreleased game without even playing it and flippantly dismissed it out of hand as a rip-off; that's a shocking lack of professionalism unbecoming of a veteran developer.

Funnily enough, Kamiya even criticized someone else for that very thing. Actually, there are enough inconsistencies with Kamiya's tweets that it almost seems as if he's trolling, but I dunno...
It seems like he also managed to not notice that Cartoon Network already made a SSB clone, and it was probably a lot more of a rip-off than this new game is going to be.

There was also a TMNT SSB "clone" and I thought the Wii-exclusive multiplayer for Force Unleashed 2 was a bit like SSB (correct me if I'm wrong).

I actually remember people not hating on the Cartoon Network one when it was coming out because they were like "Hey, it might be SSB on the 3DS!" People didn't even hate on Jump! Super/Ultimate Stars. So we'll pass those up for hate but if Sony does one? They're fucking monsters!

EDIT: Actually, can someone explain to me why they fucking love Jump! Ultimate Stars enough to the point where it got a rather complete fan translation but get so goddamn pissed over this game? And don't try to tell me JUS was all that different from SSB.

Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
You do know you are on a Nintendo based website right? Why are you so shocked and horrified to find out there are Nintendo fans here? Why are you so persistent about making everyone see things your way?
To answer your question, yes there is bias towards Nintendo products on this site, no it will not change, why? Because this is Nintendo based site.
Please Guild, not every thread needs to go down like this.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
You do know you are on a Nintendo based website right? Why are you so shocked and horrified to find out there are Nintendo fans here? Why are you so persistent about making everyone see things your way?
To answer your question, yes there is bias towards Nintendo products on this site, no it will not change, why? Because this is Nintendo based site.
Please Guild, not every thread needs to go down like this.

I'm not even complaining, I'm pointing out clear logic holes here.

 

[Paarish]

I think JUS did enough changes to make it not a 100% clone of SSB

And I'm sure PAS will do the same as well.

I'd rather play the game myself and see the similarities/differences with my own two eyes.

No point ripping on it because it LOOKS the same.

 

[The Catboy]

Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
You do know you are on a Nintendo based website right? Why are you so shocked and horrified to find out there are Nintendo fans here? Why are you so persistent about making everyone see things your way?
To answer your question, yes there is bias towards Nintendo products on this site, no it will not change, why? Because this is Nintendo based site.
Please Guild, not every thread needs to go down like this.

I'm not even complaining, I'm pointing out clear logic holes here.

No Guild you are complaining, same goes to everyone at this point.
There is no need for every single one of these threads to end up a dick wagging contest.
To be fair, even I have said stupid things on these thread, which I would like to apologize for some of the things I said. A lot of them were wrong and I didn't mean for them to come out as bad as they did. Also I would like to apologize to you as well Guild, I didn't mean to target it you on this. It just happened to end up like that.
But my point being these threads are going going in circles at this point of the same argument over and over again. So please enough of the same shit. How about we just talk about the game already without comparing it to this game or that game.

 

[Hells Malice]

Guild, I'm sorry, but please stop complaining. It's like every single thread this is what you do. You complain that people don't see things your way.
You do know you are on a Nintendo based website right? Why are you so shocked and horrified to find out there are Nintendo fans here? Why are you so persistent about making everyone see things your way?
To answer your question, yes there is bias towards Nintendo products on this site, no it will not change, why? Because this is Nintendo based site.
Please Guild, not every thread needs to go down like this.

I'm not even complaining, I'm pointing out clear logic holes here.

No Guild you are complaining, same goes to everyone at this point.
There is no need for every single one of these threads to end up a dick wagging contest.
To be fair, even I have said stupid things on these thread, which I would like to apologize for some of the things I said. A lot of them were wrong and I didn't mean for them to come out as bad as they did. Also I would like to apologize to you as well Guild, I didn't mean to target it you on this. It just happened to end up like that.
But my point being these threads are going going in circles at this point of the same argument over and over again. So please enough of the same shit. How about we just talk about the game already without comparing it to this game or that game.

This entire thread is centered around whether this game is a SSB clone or not. (and similar branching topics such as, why were other more blatant clones not whined about).
Clearly pointed out by the OP containing quotes from some rando dude bashing Playstation all-stars pointlessly.

If you don't want to argue about the game being similar to this, or that, or it not being similar, or anything like that...you're in the wrong thread bro.

Guild complains a lot but he's perfectly in the green as far as this thread is concerned. All hes done so far is be right.