California Court SHUTS DOWN Transgender Pronoun Law

[Deleted member 559230]

That's fair. I realize that most people just want to be left alone and not draw attention. I'm talking about the vocal minority that are pushing their agenda on society in an effort to change standards and normalize bizarre behavior, claiming that anyone who speaks up against it must be a horrible person. I'm talking about drag queen story hour. I'm talking about diversity for the sake of diversity. I'm talking about taking established characters from our popular culture and making them gay for no reason and then proclaiming that it's so stunning and brave. I'm talking about people making up 90 different "genders" and then getting mad when you call them the wrong pronoun. There are more important things to worry about in the world.

You bring up some good points. I wouldn't let the people on this forum that support killing unborn children get to you. It's okay to have an opinion that differs from others. It's also okay to point out their hypocrisy. You see the Leftists want you to repeat what they say and do as they do as they have no desire to hear things coming out of your mouth that they didn't tell you to say. Thinking for yourself is discouraged. It's a good thing they are a minority in the USA so I really wouldn't let the ones on this site get to you.

Why is there an entire month dedicated to gay pride? Who decided this needs to be a thing? What's so bad about promoting traditional family values and the procreation of the species ?

I've got no problem with other people celebrating for an entire month. I may not agree with what they are celebrating, but the great thing is that I can opt-out of celebrating anything I don't want to celebrate. Unlike the others on this forum that are calling you names and saying you're a bad person for having a different point of view I won't do that to you or to them. They are entitled to think whatever it is they want to think and so am I. I don't need to repeat group think or be part of anything I don't want to be a part of. I also don't have to go along with whatever it is they are pushing on others this month. I'm free to say "no".

California is known to create some really stupid mandates and laws so I'm not surprised they tried making a perceived insult a crime, but I'm also free to insult anyone I want to at any time I want to. You may not like it, but that's tough shit. However, there are consequences for your actions so if I were to go around insulting people on this forum, like the Leftists are doing to you and get banned then that would be the result of my actions. So even though the Leftists get to insult you here I'm not going to go around insulting them because I don't want to get banned. I just sit back and laugh at the double standards coming from the moderators.

That's all I have to say about that. Try to have a good day and smile a little. Liberals are famous at being miserable so don't let them get to you. Just smile and do something nice for yourself or someone you care about. Cheers!

 

[Kurt91]

I don't have an issue with using the pronouns that a person prefers, but I think rejecting a law that enforces it is a good idea. This is only for one reason alone: Laws are clear-cut, no exceptions.

You guys keep mentioning how this is about malicious mis-naming, not innocent mistakes. Thing is, laws aren't like that. You don't get to pick and choose when a law is enforced. I know this is going to be a really odd analogy, but...

Let's say I walk into a convenience store and steal all the money in the cash register. That is obviously a crime, and I would get punished. Now let's say a convenience store is robbed, and the bag full of money is left just around the corner out of sight while the criminal ran away. I happen to walk by at the worst possible moment, pick up the big bag full of money out of disbelief and curiosity, and the cops manage to show up just in time to see me holding the big bag full of money. Regardless of my excuses, they're going to arrest me for stealing the money, it's in my possession. Even though it's an honest mistake. Either way, the law is going to be followed.

Bringing this back to pronoun usage. I deliberately mis-gender a person. That's breaking the law and I get arrested and whatever penalty is applicable is applied. I accidentally mis-gender a person. That's still breaking the law, and if the person in particular is particularly malicious about it, can claim it was deliberate, I get arrested, and whatever penalty is applicable is still applied. How on earth am I supposed to defend it as an honest mistake in a way that a deliberate mis-gendering can't just claim the same mistake? Do I need to constantly carry a voice recorder on my person every time I go into public, just to record any potential conversation and prove that any instance is accidental?

Making something like this an actual law will either do absolutely nothing as it's impossible to prove either way and will just be a useless "oh, we did something" for government while no police officer in the state will enforce it except for situations where they use it as grounds to arrest a person they simply want to arrest for unrelated reasons, or it will cause waves of unjust arrests and tie up the court system as countless innocent mistakes are mixed in with deliberate maliciousness and the courts have to constantly try and decide which instances are which. How do they do that, other than look at the person and decide "Yeah, that person looks like the kind of person who would do something like that". Now you're encouraging profiling in a courtroom, more than what's there already.

 

[MariArch]

Outside of the fact that actual research has shown that respecting trans people drastically reduces mental stress on them. So the only real delusional state is those who think being transphobic is somehow accomplishing anything.
https://news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/
https://www.mentalhealthcommission.ca/sites/default/files/2019-05/Transgender people and suicide fact sheet.pdf
https://www.childtrends.org/blog/research-shows-the-risk-of-misgendering-transgender-youth
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...en-names-may-lower-suicide-risk-idUSKBN1HH2WH
Trans people shouldn't be disrespected, especially when they are at their most vulnerable. It's disturbing that people would deliberately disrespect anyone, especially the people they are supposed to be taking care of. It is malpractice to deliberately mistreat people in nursing homes and the elderly should be taken care of.

On an interesting note, I am actually intersex. That was something I found out rather recently but had suspected for many years based on some personal details.

Sorry, I just don't agree with this idea. Even if it is true that apparent 'misgendering' is a cause for higher suicide rates amongst trans folks, what gives the state the right to compel people to use language that they know is contradictory to what they can see with their own eye? In principle, enacting such a law is a slippery slope and tramples on the rights of the citizenry to score political points. Not saying trans folks shouldn't be called what they wish to be called, but forcing people to do it via the gun of government is just preposterous

 

[The Catboy]

Sorry, I just don't agree with this idea. Even if it is true that apparent 'misgendering' is a cause for higher suicide rates amongst trans folks, what gives the state the right to compel people to use language that they know is contradictory to what they can see with their own eye? In principle, enacting such a law is a slippery slope and tramples on the rights of the citizenry to score political points. Not saying trans folks shouldn't be called what they wish to be called, but forcing people to do it via the gun of government is just preposterous

To not risk repeating myself, please refer to these comments by my and @Foxi4
https://gbatemp.net/threads/california-court-shuts-down-transgender-pronoun-law.591785/post-9651015
TL; DR though, I also don’t like government overreach and that the government should lead by example, such as removing anti-trans laws as they violate current human rights. As well, help promote a social change to treat transphobia as socially unacceptable as racism. I am more in favor of social changes through protection under current laws and rights over governments trying to make easily shutdown bills.

 

[Foxi4]

To not risk repeating myself, please refer to these comments by my and @Foxi4
https://gbatemp.net/threads/california-court-shuts-down-transgender-pronoun-law.591785/post-9651015
TL; DR though, I also don’t like government overreach and that the government should lead by example, such as removing anti-trans laws as they violate current human rights. As well, help promote a social change to treat transphobia as socially unacceptable as racism. I am more in favor of social changes through protection under current laws and rights over governments trying to make easily shutdown bills.

That still doesn’t mean that the government should compel speech, which is what this is, in effect. In fact, the government *can’t* enact a law like this - you could very easily argue that it’s unconstitutional. They sure can release an internal memo that this is their code of conduct in government-ran facilities, but it’s not enforceable on citizens outside of that.

 

[The Catboy]

That still doesn’t mean that the government should compel speech, which is what this is, in effect. In fact, the government *can’t* enact a law like this - you could very easily argue that it’s unconstitutional. They sure can release an internal memo that this is their code of conduct in government-ran facilities, but it’s not enforceable on citizens outside of that.

My want for limited government is having them remove anti-trans laws as they violate human rights. The social unacceptability of transphobia is the hopeful goal of this approach and not something I believe can be done through created laws. Basically, remove anti-trans laws under the promise that they violate the rights of trans people and push that current human rights and laws already protect trans people. Hopeful outcome, transphobia starts to become less socially acceptable. I went more in detail in those posts.

 

[Foxi4]

My want for limited government is having them remove anti-trans laws as they violate human rights. The social unacceptability of transphobia is the hopeful goal of this approach and not something I believe can be done through created laws. Basically, remove anti-trans laws under the promise that they violate the rights of trans people and push that current human rights and laws already protect trans people. Hopeful outcome, transphobia starts to become less socially acceptable. I went more in detail in those posts.

I can shake on that, considering trans people are undoubtedly human just like anybody else and deserve to exercise the same human rights as everybody else, regardless of one’s opinion on the subject of “trans rights”.

 

[The Catboy]

I can shake on that, considering trans people are undoubtedly human just like anybody else and deserve to exercise the same human rights as everybody else, regardless of one’s opinion on the subject of “trans rights”.

Precisely. A system like this basically says that someone is allowed to be a transphobic asshole but they aren’t allowed to makes laws that violate the innate human rights that trans people have. It’s a system that protects everyone as a collective and doesn’t limit speech. I honestly believe that this would get better results towards respecting trans people over laws that specifically target the trans community.