Forget "going green", Liberal cities have gone "brown"

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by morvoran, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    Giving away "free stuff" is never the answer. You can allow people a chance to get on their feet with temporary free or low rent, but they must work towards earning their own way and eventually move into their own place away from government assistance. If they are not taught to live on their own accord and have personal responsibility, they will end up back on the street.

    Not debtors prison, poopers prison. If someone is caught defecating on the street, they must have consequences or some form of deterrent to keep them from doing it in the first place. Prison is a lot better than the streets if all you need is 3 hot meals and a bed to sleep in.

    I am more for the detention center idea than giving them free houses to stay in that they won't take care of. Not to lock them up, but more of a center where they can stay and be supervised to make sure they get the care and amenities they need in order to step out of their condition.
     
    Gon Freecss likes this.
  2. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

    pip Contributor
    20
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    We've already had this discussion. Those who can work will want to do better for themselves than a tiny studio apartment, but a third of homeless people are mentally ill and likely cannot work. They still need shelter like any human being.

    An even greater percentage of US prisoners are mentally ill - roughly half - and they certainly do not get the care they need or deserve while behind bars. I'm all for funding a new national mental healthcare infrastructure, but expecting prisons to fill that role is never going to produce a good end result. Especially considering how many homeless veterans we'd be imprisoning in the process.
     
  3. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

    Member
    12
    Feb 17, 2017
    Comoros
    It doesn’t seem like the right investors are coming since there is still a lot of empty houses.

    And who’s willing to invest in houses that no one want’s to buy. The point of the investor is to buy homes them quickly sell them at a higher price. If no is buying them now, who’s willing to buy them after an investor gets to them?

    If they arbitrarily jack up prices houses won’t sell. Xzi provides evidence of that. It won’t be a smart move and their greed plan won’t work.
     
  4. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

    pip Contributor
    20
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    I suppose it just highlights how much the wealthiest individuals and corporations enjoy hoarding wealth and land. At some point it becomes so obscene that they detach from reality and it's simply a game to them.
     
  5. yuyuyup
    This message by yuyuyup has been removed from public view by Chary, Sep 22, 2019, Reason: Personal bickering.
    Sep 22, 2019
  6. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    If the plan isn't giving homeless people homes before working with them to get jobs to keep their homes, it's unlikely to be very effective. Any plan that doesn't also address our systemic income inequality problems with progressive policies like additional spending on social programs is also likely to fail. In fact, Trump and the Republicans have cut social programs, which will likely exacerbate our income inequality issues and increase homelessness. For example, mental health care is sometimes a factor when it comes to homelessness, and the Trump administration has made that harder to receive.

    Trump and the Republicans know what's effective, but they won't do it because of the cost and the need to tax the rich. Any time you bring up Trump and the Republicans and how they're going to deal with homelessness in California or anywhere else, you're actually immortalizing a policy and moral failing on their part. The plan I'm seeing you bringing attention to is essentially homeless internment camps, and I thank you for immortalizing and bringing attention to this one of many policy failures.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    The data shows that giving homeless people "free stuff" in the form of apartments before helping them get jobs to keep the apartments reduces homelessness by about 90%. So, no, giving away free stuff is actually sometimes the answer.
     
  7. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

    Member
    12
    Feb 17, 2017
    Comoros
    That's a lot of rich people though. They can't all of sudden just stop critical thinking that they become detached from reality. Those homes are probably ghetto ass homes that's nothing like their million dollar mansions. What use are they to them just to have them lying around for the sake of hoarding. That is a lot of homes, 6 to 1 homes for every homeless person, it's a lot of money just being thrown away. If they get new homes it'll be as big as their multi million dollar homes and not these ghetto ass places. They becoming so greedy that they screw themselves over and become detached from reality I just don't buy that answer.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Sep 22, 2019
  8. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    Yes, which is why I can't tell if you just skim over what I say or are just forgetful. Mentally ill people can't get jobs if nobody will hire them due to their illness. Just like a lot of mentally ill people, the government can hire them them for the DMV or to run the future government ran "free clinics" that were once hospitals if single payer insurance is ever a reality.

    I already expressed my disagreement on your idea of re-implementing insane asylums and lobotomies.

    Have you ever thought of trying stand up because you are a riot? You are very funny (but looks aren't everything). Trolls gotta troll, I guess.

    Trump and his admin do know what's effective thanks to Rudy Giuliani. They also know what's ineffective thanks to the democrats and their liberal policies that only create more homeless. That's why Trump is going to try something other than what Gavin Newsom, and the other democrats who have failed their cities, have been doing all along.
    I'm not sure why you can't be open to new ideas that will work rather than depending on your dem leaders that don't care about their constituents.

    It's hard to take you seriously when you don't even read what I say.
     
    Gon Freecss likes this.
  9. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    What's the Republican solution to homelessness?
     
  10. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    I hope you take the chance to read this - HERE

    It basically says that Rudy made the policy that if you want to remain homeless, you get out of the city, you start doing something with your life, or we cut you off from the shelters and possibly arrest you. In other words, teaching them to have some "personal responsibility" for their choices/actions.
     
  11. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    That's not a real solution to homelessness. It either a.) moves the homeless to another place, which doesn't actually reduce homelessness, or b.) creates internment camps for the homeless in the form of prisons.

    As I already said, there is no Republican solution to homelessness. I told you what the solution to homelessness is.
     
  12. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    It worked for NYC before the De Blasio let loose his liberal policies that caused the homeless population to blow up.

    I give you the truth, and you deny the truth. I can't help you if you base your opinions of feelings rather than facts. Just keep trying the same methods over and over again, maybe one day the liberals will get lucky.
     
  13. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    I explained the two reasons why that wasn't a real solution to homelessness. Forcing the homeless to leave the city or putting them in jail doesn't do anything to actually address the rate of homelessness.
     
  14. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    How so? Putting them in prison gives them a warm place to stay, 3 meals a day, and free healthcare. All on the tax payers tab. Sounds better than your idea that has been tried for the past 12+ years in California and has only made the problem worse.
     
  15. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    1. They're in prison, which isn't a good place to be, for no reason other than being homeless. By your logic, we should just put people without health insurance into prison.
    2. Prison is much more expensive for the taxpayer than handing out homes and helping people get jobs to keep their homes.
    3. When people leave prison, they're homeless again.
    It's not a solution to homelessness, and it's immoral. I think it's likely that you're being intentionally nonsensical. If so, good on you demonstrating the absurdity of conservatism.

    What are you talking about? Where it was done, homelessness went down 90%. It isn't something that has substantially taken off in California or anywhere else, since a lot of people are for some reason resistant giving out homes.
     
    KingVamp likes this.
  16. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    1. No, but I can't see anybody that would give up living in a shelter for living on the streets. Internment camps(or how sane people call them - detention centers) can be used to keep the homeless off the streets to clean themselves up, find them work, and proper housing.
    2. I would like to see some data to back this up.
    3. When you leave prison, people have the opportunity to live in "half-way" homes to help them reintegrate back into society. They don't have to go live on the street. If they are released on parole, they have to go through this process or go back to prison.

    I would like to see where this has happened. Most likely, it was a republican leader and was not just due to giving free housing.
     
  17. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    I imagine a lot of people would prefer the streets over forced incarceration in prison.

    The data shows that largely doesn't work. It's difficult to get a job while homeless, and the job-finding and house-finding assistance is largely nonexistent. We know what works: Give people homes and help them find jobs to keep the homes.

    Here.

    It's difficult to find a job while in prison, it's difficult to find a job with a criminal record, and "halfway houses" often cut a person loose after some amount of time. Halfway houses also have their own problems.

    See above.
     
  18. DarthDub

    DarthDub Amateur Hacker

    Member
    11
    Jan 26, 2016
    United States
    Your mom's basement.
    I had a friend who used to be homeless and he intentionally got himself arrested just so he could have a warm place to stay.
     
  19. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    This is evidence of a moral failing on the part of society. We're also talking about going to prison for the crime of being homeless, not spending the night in jail.
     
  20. morvoran
    OP

    morvoran Trump supporter

    Member
    7
    Dec 19, 2010
    United States
    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    These things are only true if the person doesn't accept job training (which some prisons offer), look for a job (construction jobs are hiring people straight after they are released depending on their crime), or follow the guidelines/rules of the half-way house before being kicked out. All has to do with personal responsibiltiy. Of course, a bank robber isn't going to get a job at a bank, or pedo isn't going to get a job as groundskeeper at a school, so I agree it could be hard to find a job in the fields you're interested in after being released.
    Some people released from prison mostly try to go back rather than dealing with the "outside" and/or being homeless. It's better than nothing.

    Yeah, to this and your #2 point, I'll just leave this here

    Also, it's easy to say you defeated 92% of your homeless when you house 92% of your homeless, but it's how long it lasts afterwards, that is the true measure of success.

    Also, this here
     
    Last edited by morvoran, Sep 22, 2019
  21. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

    Member
    18
    May 11, 2008
    United States
    You don't seem to understand the job discrimination against former prisoners that exists, and you're wanting to add that extra hurdle to homeless people.

    And you're wanting to add people to that cycle.

    Did you read the article? The reason homelessness increased is because they stopped the policy.
     
  22. yuyuyup
    This message by yuyuyup has been removed from public view by Chary, Sep 22, 2019, Reason: Bickering.
    Sep 22, 2019
Quick Reply
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...