About the Texas massacre and easy access to guns.

Nikokaro

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In my country we remain amazed how, despite yet another school massacre in the United States, the general opinion and the people do not put any serious and concrete pressure on the policy to change the gun law. It seems unbelievable to us. Is it possible that selfishness, fear of the other, and of losing one's possessions is more important than public safety and the protection of the weak and minorities? Is it possible that they still do not understand the danger of giving easy access to weapons to the first frustrated, deranged, paranoid, insane person who, having already decided to throw away his own life, does so by dragging as many innocents as possible into the abyss with him? Is this the celebrated American freedom of which they are so proud?

I would like to point out to them that in addition to the freedom "to" (to accumulate possessions, to be ambitious, to impose oneself, to have prestige, to enjoy...) there is also a more delicate, more inner and far more important freedom "from" (from the past, from prejudices, from selfishness and closure, from greed and anger, etc. ) and the latter can be maintained only by not spreading fear of the neighbor, the different, the foreigner and the exaltation of self-defense, but by developing the system of social protection, inclusion and welcome, and by avoiding ghettoizing, excluding, mocking, and thus bringing to exasperation and despair the different, the strange, the fragile, the mentally ill, etc.

Paradoxically, what is a widespread "fear of crime" (to be exorcised with easy access to weapons) has produced yet another "crime of fear"; because enacted by a person conditioned and driven by fear, of mockery, of others, of the past that haunts him, of the future that paralyzes him...
Have I made myself clear?
What do you guys think about this matter?
And forgive my bad english.
 

pokota

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It's less that we reject gun control out of hand and more the government is actually not allowed to restrict civilian access to small arms without first getting the separate states to agree to it. Larger arms are already restricted on the grounds that they're not intended for civilian use in the first place (and because of their scale they're supposed to leave a more clear paper trail), but that's outside the scope of this post.

With that said, part of the reason that the gun control debate is as much of a hot button issue in the States as it is is because we already have gun control laws on the books that aren't being enforced that would hypothetically solve the issues, but people keep insisting on drafting new laws for [controversial issue of the day] rather than enforcing what's already on the books.
 

Nothereed

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Guns aren't the problem here, the problem is mental health. Which well, if your working around the clock, with no required vacations. A healthcare system that requires to be paid for. Then your society is not going to handle wielding guns well at all. Since rationally ends up going out the window.
 

MariArch

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You can't have my guns feddys. fuck off

Logic of republicans :
There are too many guns in our country, that makes us vulnerable
How will we deal with that?
We will give more guns to peoples :)
Interesting that from the 90s till current day, the amount of gun owners has increased drastically, yet the crime has decreased drastically, eh? It's almost like the vast vast vast majority of gun owners hold them for self defense and are not murdering psychopaths
 

pokota

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In theory having that many gun owners around should discourage mass shootings (not necessarily like this one; one of the federal restrictions on arms that passed constitutional muster is that you're not allowed to bring guns onto the grounds of a public school - the texas shooting is the quintessential case of 'criminals gonna crime'); in practice the argument falls apart due essentially to the Tragedy of the Commons - I don't want to be the one to shoot at the mad gunman guy because somebody else is going to too and I don't want to create a crossfire that costs more lives than just one retaliator would save.
 
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JuanBaNaNa

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Haha, enjoy your XP Nikokaro.

What do you expect that will happen in a place where is easier to get drugs and guns than healthcare?

BTW, do you remember couple weeks ago a white man shoot people in a mall?
Police didn't neutralized the guy like they did with this school shooter.
Wonder why?

No, actually: wOnDeR wHy?

I couldn't care less to be honest. Trump should've built that wall to keep those teens out of my country.

Oh wait! Texas was part of my country. Thanks to Santa Ana, for his efforts of selling half of Mexico's territory no mexicans where harmed in that school shooting. 👍

Lel.
 
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MariArch

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In theory having that many gun owners around should discourage mass shootings (not necessarily like this one; one of the federal restrictions on arms that passed constitutional muster is that you're not allowed to bring guns onto the grounds of a public school - the texas shooting is the quintessential case of 'criminals gonna crime'); in practice the argument falls apart due essentially to the Tragedy of the Commons - I don't want to be the one to shoot at the mad gunman guy because somebody else is going to too and I don't want to create a crossfire that costs more lives than just one retaliator would save.
(just to note, the person that shot the shooter was a random passerby border agent that happened to be in the area, but I digress)

The solution to this is a vast overhaul of security in schools. It should piss people off that these politicians have the gall to have giant security clientele for their rat asses and can ship billions of our dollars overseas to the Ukraine, but they can't spend any money to protect our children in schools.

these anti 2a politicians on Twitter that are standing on the graves of children to try to get stupid shit that wouldn't even help to pass like universal background checks or red flag laws are playing a cynical game. If they were serious about wanting to "do anything!", they would've tried to pass these types of security overhauls that could pass by a super majority in the house and senate

If people don't see how the media and politicians are using these moments to try to score brownie points, they're blind.

Haha, enjoy your XP Nikokaro.

What do you expect that will happen in a place where is easier to get drugs and guns than healthcare?

BTW, do you remember couple weeks ago a white man shoot people in a mall?
Police didn't neutralized the guy like they did with this school shooter.
Wonder why?

No, actually: wOnDeR wHy?

I couldn't care less to be honest. Trump should've built that wall to keep those teens out of my country.

Oh wait! Texas was part of my country. Thanks to Santa Ana, for his efforts of selling half of Mexico's territory no mexicans where harmed in that school shooting. 👍

Lel.
This is the dumbest take ever. The buffalo shooter was surrounded by cops and gave up after slaughtering innocents, if you don't think everyone doesn't despise that scum then you are insane. If there was a death penalty in New York, he would rightfully be on death row, but there isn't.

This guy was shot because a bystander came in with his gun to neutralize him before the cops arrived. It had absolutely nothing to do with him being hispanic you race baiter.
 

Nothereed

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Weak ass, pathetic, bullshit, argument. The kid that did this shit didn't seek mental health help before shooting his grandmother in the face, then massacring 19 children. He posted about it on Facebook then went and did it. "MORE MENTAL HEALTH HELP!!!" Really? Are you dense in the fucking head?
Okay, let me ask a question then.
How many Americans cannot afford health care at all?
at the beginning of the pandemic, almost 10% of the population cannot afford care. But that's those that already are paying for healthcare, not the actual cost of say going to a therapist. Just by putting it behind a price wall, anyone will second guess if they need it.
Second we have the fact we have a growing fascist party in the United States, that would be MAGA/Trump. I do not use that term lightly. Removing guns won't fix the problem. They'll get access to it and still shoot. The massacre that happened was racially motivated and in large part aligned with said fascist party. citing the "great replacement" theory. Which painfully, I know exactly who to blame for. Which would be Tucker Carlson, who has non stop brought up that conspiracy theory. He didn't create it, but he definitely gave it a unnecessary microphone.

Regulating guns is also not a good idea at the moment. With the United States gerrmandering problem worse than every before, resulting in a minority representing the majority. If the fascist party where to take power, they would use those same levers made against us. Had we not been in much more extreme climate, it would of worked out fine.
 

MariArch

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Regulating guns is also not a good idea at the moment. With the United States gerrmandering problem worse than every before, resulting in a minority representing the majority. If the fascist party where to take power, they would use those same levers made against us. Had we not been in much more extreme climate, it would of worked out fine.
Fascist party lmao.

People like you are the problem. Turns out nearly half the country voted for Trump in 2020 and the democrats are going to get ripped in the midterms. Are all the people that vote for them fascists? If you genuinely think that, I don't know why I'm obligated to share a country with people like you. And I reckon a lot of people have that exact same sentiment
 

Nothereed

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We're talking about the TX massacre here, not health care.
healthcare goes hand in hand with this. Guns don't kill people. People do.
If your not of sound mind, your going to make unsound decisions. Unsound decisions can be prevented of people in this country had better access to mental help facilities before it even reaches this point.

Fascist party lmao.

People like you are the problem. Turns out nearly half the country voted for Trump in 2020 and the democrats are going to get ripped in the midterms. Are all the people that vote for them fascists? If you genuinely think that, I don't know why I'm obligated to share a country with people like you. And I reckon a lot of people have that exact same sentiment
Reminder that Rudy guilliany on jan 6 said trial by combat. Reminder that on January 6th that the people there we're chanting "kill mike pence" reminder that multiple neo nazi groups were there, armed. Reminder that there was a pipebomb left.

Let's not forget Trump demanding votes out of the governor in Georgia, to get him 1 more vote to win for the election, claiming that he needed to find it. Calming victory first and then demanding proof.

This list can go on. No republican president has one the popular vote within 20 years. But have won the electoral collage. at least three times since then.
 

MariArch

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We're talking about the TX massacre here, not health care. The TX massacre was also not racially motivated. Tucker Carlson should be publicly executed along with Alex Jones and several others I could name.
equating Tucker Carlson with Alex Jones is purely asinine and suggesting that someone deserves the death penalty for speech is just authoritarian. You need to take your meds
 

Nothereed

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Are all the people that vote for them fascists?
Not all of them are facists, however many are increasingly proto-fascists which eventually leads into facism, with about a large bulk of it being effectively facists at this point.

equating Tucker Carlson with Alex Jones is purely asinine and suggesting that someone deserves the death penalty for speech is just authoritarian. You need to take your meds
They both push conspiracy theories, their speech is actively hurting others and pushing others to kill. They are in the same line.

Their speech and rhetoric is resulting in people acting on that, and those actions... well, it's getting people killed.
 

Nothereed

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the problem is mental health, not guns.

gun control just leaves us law abiding citizens without self defense, since criminals don't follow the law and will keep their guns.
I usually wouldn't side with you, however in this particular case I do agree. I wouldn't just extend it to criminals.
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary" --Marx.
 
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MariArch

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Reminder that Rudy guilliany on jan 6 said trial by combat. Reminder that on January 6th that the people there we're chanting "kill mike pence" reminder that multiple neo nazi groups were there, armed. Reminder that there was a pipebomb left.

Let's not forget Trump demanding votes out of the governor in Georgia, to get him 1 more vote to win for the election, claiming that he needed to find it. Calming victory first and then demanding proof.

This list can go on. No republican president has one the popular vote within 20 years. But have won the electoral collage. at least three times since then.
Reminder that Giuliani said this was hyperbolic
Reminder that 500/74,000,000+ people went to the capital that day... and even those 500 are a fraction of the people that were there that day (The vast majority didn't enter the capital). Equating 500 or so morons to millions of people is just pure stupidity.
And this thing about trump talking to the governor to "find votes", suggesting he wanted him to make up votes is just such a non story. Tapes released afterwards obviously make it clear that he was wanting a recount because he was confident the margin would be close (which it wasn't), not that he wanted him to rig it (Which the governor has no power to do, by the way).

You have no idea why people voted for Trump. It's not because a lot of people don't know he's a moron, it's more of a fuck you to all these political elitists. And the media trying to run hit piece after hit piece on him for 4 years (and onwards) is obvious evidence of this elitism.
 

KennyAtom

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The TX massacre was also not racially motivated. Tucker Carlson should be publicly executed along with Alex Jones and several others I could name.
So you want people killed for opinions? Jesus, how far will these leftists go?

But in all seriousness, this is a clear sign of mental illness that you want people dead just for having opinions, and you should probably go to a therapist or something.
 

MariArch

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They both push conspiracy theories, their speech is actively hurting others and pushing others to kill. They are in the same line.

Their speech and rhetoric is resulting in people acting on that, and those actions... well, it's getting people killed.
Sir. If you think Tucker Carlson lead to the Buffalo shooting, you'll have to explain to me why the shooter said in his manifesto that he was a "left wing authoritarian" and specifically said he hates Fox News.

You'll also have to tell me when Tucker Carlson mentioned this theory the shooter wrote about, which describes "Jews trying to replace the white man with minorities."

Spoiler alert: You'll never find Tucker Carlson Pushing this stupid stuff. He talks about illegal immigration leading to demographic changes and a lack of cultural hegemony which he and the vast majority of americans consider an issue.

You've been fooled. Left wing media literally keep trying to throw shit on the wall and see what sticks so they can maybe get rid of Carlson because they know people listen to him

So you want people killed for opinions? Jesus, how far will these leftists go?

But in all seriousness, this is a clear sign of mental illness that you want people dead just for having opinions, and you should probably go to a therapist or something.
It's not worth even arguing about. Let's just say.. purely hypothetically, that Tucker Carlson was indeed a 'neo-nazi'.. Left wing people, even 40 years ago, wouldn't have called for them to be executed. In fact, orginizations like the ACLU famously defended Nazi's rights to march in Skokie, no matter how heinous of scummy said people are.

Leftists don't abide by principles of free speech like old school liberals do. They are authoritarians that label any speech they dislike as apparent Fascism or authoritarianism. This philosophy is incompatible with the constitutional right to free speech.
 

Nothereed

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Reminder that Giuliani said this was hyperbolic
You cannot change that in post. When your right there, and your in front of a crowd, and you say that. People will go by what you said then, not what you said after. When you have a group of angry people who were told that their election was stolen, and you say that? What do you think they are going to do? hyperbole or not that is an extreme failing as public speaker in that moment if it was supposed to be hyperbole.
You have no idea why people voted for Trump. It's not because a lot of people don't know he's a moron, it's more of a fuck you to all these political elitists. And the media trying to run hit piece after hit piece on him for 4 years (and onwards) is obvious evidence of this elitism.
He is an elitist, and a con. If it was true that people wanted to choose him because he claimed himself to be "I'm not a established politician" that only gets you so far once you are the politician.
Further more, let's talk the media for a moment.
If your a individual with values that are unacceptable, you need to control the flow of information for people to start accepting your views.
Let's identify what runs a business, and therefore, a news outlet for a moment. Obviously it's no longer the weather or trying to be as least biased as possible, your looking for people to keep watching and engaging.
The problem is that there's a strong correlation that more educated people are more left leaning. Which means if a news outlet tries to dump a pile of shit, to that audience, it doesn't fly, due to being able to realize it is a pile of shit.
Fascist need information control, they need people to be less educated, otherwise, people would start questioning orders. It requires yes men. So this is where it all plays back into companies and news outlets.
News outlets if they are looking to target the republican individuals, can get away with far more. Conservatism itself is primarily stoked in tradition, traditions that may or may not be that great (cough cough, racism sexism) which means that for a fascist, who may want to gain power, have an easier time manipulating a populous that has worse education, not more. Or better yet, direct them where to get the information from. Turn them away from all news sources but the ones they approve of.
That doesn't mean the likes of NBC are neutral, far from it. Instead, they can only hide their bias under a few things. One of them being stories that profit companies, and are anti worker/anti union.
Jesus, how far will these leftists go?
Leftists (actual ones, not democrats) leave others alone until a group of intolerable people, start slaughtering or threatening others. We're tolerant of all, except the intolerant. Because if we try to be tolerant of a group that is intolerant, we get another holocust. Which is what happened. There was no leftists anymore in germany, since Hitler killed them all. And the left over liberal faction (liberal being anywhere from just barely to right to full right.)) was unable to argue or fight off that. Resulting in that happening.
 
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