Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

[FAST6191]

My body, my choice only applies to things that have no substantive impact on others. Deadly diseases spreading from one person to another immediately takes it out of that category. This is why we already have mandatory vaccinations for other diseases like measles. My body, my choice would however apply to abortion before the fetus is "viable" because there is no living entity being affected other than the woman housing the fetus.

I am not aware of mandatory vaccinations for anything, and if there is in Austria in the modern world (or past) then I would have to oppose those too owing to the whole bodily autonomy thing. Normally in peacetime there is issues with various hippy mothers, religious weirdos (not Austria but some of the fun ones in the Netherlands actually providing one of the more interesting data sets here), those not trusting of governments and more dodging such things.

Equally plenty of things we allow have a substantive impact on others - being fat not only hurts my eyeballs but my insurance premiums, my companies (unhealthy people get sick more often and are generally less productive by virtue of having to stop and take a breather/rest their knee that the mass above caused to grind away), ditto smoking, ditto drunks, ditto having kids you can't afford (which is also one of the other very big aspects in the debate for abortions where that is a thing -- mostly the US, Ireland and Poland. Kids you can't afford generally taking up my prisons, my welfare, my morgues when they blow their brains out...), as might driving faster than about walking pace (though that is less chemicals and autonomy I suppose).

There is scope to violate it -- if something like measles (R numbers vary but leave kung flu in the dust) ganged up with ebola or sleeping sickness (basically 100% fatal), maybe gaining something fun with infectious and asymptomatic phases whilst also somehow having a vaccination then "fuck you it is happening" becomes a more reasonable proposition. For something as comparatively mild as this then violating bodily autonomy is a massive stretch from where I sit.

 

[Foxi4]

My body, my choice only applies to things that have no substantive impact on others. Deadly diseases spreading from one person to another immediately takes it out of that category. This is why we already have mandatory vaccinations for other diseases like measles. My body, my choice would however apply to abortion before the fetus is "viable" because there is no living entity being affected other than the woman housing the fetus.

Poppycock. You have no idea whether a given unvaccinated individual contributes to the spread of a given disease - in fact, they can’t contribute to it unless they’re confirmed carriers of the pathogen - the probability is higher, but it’s not a given. “My body, my choice” absolutely applies, the expectation that other people should be burdened with your own risk mitigation is based on nothing. You would have a valid argument for compulsory cooperation in the absence of a vaccine - in such a scenario only cooperation can mitigate risk. In the presence of a viable vaccine with 96%+ efficacy the burden of protecting your own health falls squarely on you.

 

[Velorian]

Poppycock. You have no idea whether a given unvaccinated individual contributes to the spread of a given disease - in fact, they can’t contribute to it unless they’re confirmed carriers of the pathogen - the probability is higher, but it’s not a given. “My body, my choice” absolutely applies, the expectation that other people should be burdened with your own risk mitigation is based on nothing. You would have a valid argument for compulsory cooperation in the absence of a vaccine - in such a scenario only cooperation can mitigate risk. In the presence of a viable vaccine with 96%+ efficacy the burden of protecting your own health falls squarely on you.

Have you ever been around someone that had the flu? What is the first thing they say or anyone around them says, "stay away because you might get sick". What is that person doing that spreads the disease? Sneezing, coughing, in essence shooting bacteria and viruses into the air from an immune system that is compromised and struggling to fight off the disease. If you had gotten the flu vaccine that year, then what are you not doing? Coughing, sneezing, shooting bacteria and viruses into the air and your immune system annihilates the disease from your body so it literally can't spread.

 

[FAST6191]

You probably want to pick a better example than flu for that one.

 

[Foxi4]

Have you ever been around someone that had the flu? What is the first thing they say or anyone around them says, "stay away because you might get sick". What is that person doing that spreads the disease? Sneezing, coughing, in essence shooting bacteria and viruses into the air from an immune system that is compromised and struggling to fight off the disease. If you had gotten the flu vaccine that year, then what are you not doing? Coughing, sneezing, shooting bacteria and viruses into the air and your immune system annihilates the disease from your body so it literally can't spread.

Do you get your yearly flu jab? Influenza kills as much as 650,000 a year globally, and even more people suffer from various complications related to the disease, some of which are permanent. How responsible are you for their health, if at all?

No. Not an argument. You are an educated person, at this point everyone who doesn’t live in the middle of the Sahara desert knows that there’s a COVID vaccine available and, provided their shots are in date, it offers efficacy that is as close to 100% as it can be, since it’s not a force field. You have the option to take advantage of this miraculous form of medicine and protect yourself from disease. Given the fact that you have that option, you do not get to burden others with protecting you from the disease.

If some people want to *risk* getting infected and cough, sneeze or otherwise suffer from it, that’s their risk, not yours. Their body, their choice. You have all the tools you need to *not* get sick *regardless of their sneezing and coughing*, to protect *your body*, or at the very least you have the tools to mitigate your risk to such an extent that it’s infinitesimally small. At that point the ball is in your court.

 

[Xzi]

Doesn't the CDC get paid from companies like Pfizer via the CDC Foundation?

AFAIK the CDC is a government organization, its employees are on government salaries. The government also paid for however many millions of doses of various vaccines so that we can receive them for "free." Big pharmaceutical companies aren't exactly known for operating out of charity/the goodness of their hearts. Nor would they pay out for something that comes freely, such as demand for vaccines against a deadly virus.

 

[FAKEdemicBioPYSCHONANOWAR]

My body, my choice only applies to things that have no substantive impact on others. Deadly diseases spreading from one person to another immediately takes it out of that category. This is why we already have mandatory vaccinations for other diseases like measles. My body, my choice would however apply to abortion before the fetus is "viable" because there is no living entity being affected other than the woman housing the fetus.

Except for that isn't the case.

 

[Xzi]

Except for that isn't the case.

"But have you considered this: nuh-uh." What a compelling argument lol.

Velorian is correct. You cannot get pregnant via airborne virus, nor are there airborne abortions floating around. This shouldn't be something that needs to be spelled out for you.

 

[KingVamp]

Yes, surely every vaccine advocate must be getting paid. It's not like they could possibly have any other reason for wanting to keep hospitals from overflowing with COVID patients.

I'm trying to give these people the benefit of the doubt, but I honestly think this one is just trolling.

Like, are anti-vax and mask slackers getting paid to spread their nonsense?

 

[Foxi4]

"But have you considered this: nuh-uh." What a compelling argument lol.

Velorian is correct. You cannot get pregnant via airborne virus, nor are there airborne abortions floating around. This shouldn't be something that needs to be spelled out for you.

Funny, because that’s sort of what the public health approach towards abortion is. For many years now access to abortion has been promoted as an integral pillar of women’s healthcare, as if pregnancy was a disease instead of a natural consequence of deliberate action. You can become infected with a virus without your knowledge, in fact, that’s how most people contract diseases. It’s rather difficult and considerably more rare to get pregnant without your knowledge and active participation, which used to pass for consent. This really isn’t a good argument for the pro choice segment of the population considering both unwanted pregnancy and spreading viruses could be, for the most part, eliminated with a government mandate, all it takes is just getting rid of bodily autonomy altogether. All of this is an aside, of course - I’m not entirely sure how we got on the subject of pregnancy in a thread about COVID, but it’s not the craziest thing I’ve seen on POLtemp, so I’m not horribly surprised. I’m waiting for the mandatory mention of Trump/Biden and communism/capitalism to complete the GBAtemp’s Anti-Intellectual Trifecta.

 

[Xzi]

For many years now access to abortion has been promoted as an integral pillar of women’s healthcare, as if pregnancy was a disease instead of a natural consequence of deliberate action.

For one thing, it's not always deliberate action on the part of the person who has to deal with the resulting pregnancy. For another, there are often unforeseen complications with pregnancy even when it is both deliberate and consensual, as I'm sure you're aware.

You can become infected with a virus without your knowledge, in fact, that’s how most people contract diseases.

Yeah, that was my point. To pretend we're not all in this together when it comes to easily-transmissible diseases is to ignore all of human history. Even primates understand the importance of both relying upon and protecting their communities.

 

[DCarnage]

How unfortunate.

Also how quick people are to abandon "my body, my choice".

How delusional are you?! That only applies to "birth givers" murdering their unborn children... jeez, get with the program.

 

[Foxi4]

For one thing, it's not always deliberate action on the part of the person who has to deal with the resulting pregnancy. For another, there are often unforeseen complications with pregnancy even when it is both deliberate and consensual, as I'm sure you're aware.


Yeah, that was my point. To pretend we're not all in this together when it comes to easily-transmissible diseases is to ignore all of human history. Even primates understand the importance of both relying upon and protecting their communities.

We’re obviously not talking about rape here, which accounts for a fraction of a percent of all abortions, but as I said, that’s not the subject of the thread here. As for complications, access to abortion for mothers whose life is threatened by continuing the pregnancy is fairly well-established around the world and only the dullest of dullards have any moral quandaries about it. Even the Talmud puts the life of the mother above the life of an unborn child, and by extension, so does the bible, so you have over two millennia of precedent here. If only one can survive, the default is and always has been the mother, unless the mother herself objects.

We’re all in this together in the sense that we’re all facing the same crisis. At no point did anyone sign off their rights just because China wasn’t very forthright with information about yet another virus originating from that part of the world until it took root in so many areas that eradicating it has become a pipe dream. I don’t know what we’re even arguing about at this point - this boat has already sailed. We’re not “eradicating” anything, people will continue to die from COVID at a steadily decreasing rate for many years to come. If somebody doesn’t want a vaccine injected into their body, all you can do is inform them that it is in their best interest to take it, in the same way that you tell someone who doesn’t believe in blood transfusions or animal heart valve transplants that their child is going to die if they don’t put their name on the dotted line and set their superstitions aside for five seconds. In both scenarios you are dealing with easily preventable death, and in both there is nothing you can really do, which is fine.

 

[Xzi]

If somebody doesn’t want a vaccine injected into their body, all you can do is inform them that it is in their best interest to take it, in the same way that you tell someone who doesn’t believe in blood transfusions or animal heart valve transplants that their child is going to die if they don’t put their name on the dotted line and set their superstitions aside for five seconds. In both scenarios you are dealing with easily preventable death, and in both there is nothing you can really do, which is fine.

Honestly yes, it would be fine if we had some assurances that they were only putting themselves in harm's way. In other words, if they want to sign a waiver stating that they will not seek medical attention when their COVID symptoms become so severe that they can no longer breathe without assistance, great. We can't have them continuing to put a strain on hospital resources and thus de-prioritizing patients with unpreventable injuries/illnesses.

 

[Foxi4]

Honestly yes, it would be fine if we had some assurances that they were only putting themselves in harm's way. In other words, if they want to sign a waiver stating that they will not seek medical attention when their COVID symptoms become so severe that they can no longer breathe without assistance, great. We can't have them continuing to put a strain on hospital resources and thus de-prioritizing patients with unpreventable injuries/illnesses.

Why not? It’s not your resources. Sounds rather spiteful.

 

[tabzer]

Honestly yes, it would be fine if we had some assurances that they were only putting themselves in harm's way. In other words, if they want to sign a waiver stating that they will not seek medical attention when their COVID symptoms become so severe that they can no longer breathe without assistance, great. We can't have them continuing to put a strain on hospital resources and thus de-prioritizing patients with unpreventable injuries/illnesses.

Your mind is such a boring place. A person with a preventable injury cuts in line, all the time, in an ER if the urgency merits it. It doesn't make sense to shoehorn medical procedure reform in this context.

Your existence inconveniences mine. Maybe you should be euthanized?

Fuck you, your body, and your "rights".

Maybe they should force it upon you.

 

[Xzi]

Why not? It’s not your resources. Sounds rather spiteful.

It's a selfish, spiteful choice to remain unvaccinated, especially claiming all the while that it only impacts yourself as an individual and knowing full well that isn't true.

As a healthy individual who gets regular checkups and has made the responsible choice in regards to vaccination, it's impossible for me to know when or if I'll need those resources. Perhaps somebody crashes into me on the highway or I become the victim of a terrorist attack while shopping for groceries. Regardless, I shouldn't be expected to be fine with bleeding out in the cold while all hospital beds are occupied by people who willingly and deliberately subjected themselves to severe illness via COVID.

Those who claim to be "rugged individualists" shouldn't have any issue with handling their own medical treatment. Besides, if they aren't willing to trust medical expertise in regards to vaccination, why should they suddenly reverse course to trust it in any other context?

 

[KingVamp]

Spiteful is not wanting everyone to have universal healthcare or any other universal services because you don't like how it is paid for.

 

[Zajumino]

"But have you considered this: nuh-uh." What a compelling argument lol.

Velorian is correct. You cannot get pregnant via airborne virus, nor are there airborne abortions floating around. This shouldn't be something that needs to be spelled out for you.

Wait a second...
If that is the case, then how do people get pregnant?

 

[Xzi]

Wait a second...
If that is the case, then how do people get pregnant?

Well son, when a yandere loves a tsundere very much...