The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. cots
    OP

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    You're right about the lying scum bag in power, but you forget to mention the rest of our wealthy leaders who are also full of shit. That includes all of them. If you're making 60-120k a year and say you can relate to people working 30 hours a week being paid less than $15 an hour you clearly can't be trusted.
     
    Last edited by cots, Jul 7, 2019
  2. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    It’s pretty much what i’ve read from Thomas Sowell’s books. Many doctors are from foreign countries, coming in with less then prestige medical education, because native citizens don’t see the benefits of getting a medical job in the current single payer system.

    People have wrote off the native citizens as greedy only wanting to get a job for money but when you’ve gone through extremely long schooling which takes years to get a Doctorate you want to see the sacrifice you put in to pay off. If the pay off is low for all that work then you would pick a different career instead.


    Price fixing has always led to more expensive prices. It did in the Soviet Union. Like it did with the Homeless Crisis in California and New York. Affordable Housing and Prices from price fixing usually turns out to be not affordable because of the Economics of how this stuff works. Setting below then what would naturally happen in the Market they end up not getting enough funding so housing quality degrades. To get around his they build unnecessary luxury homes which avoid price controls but are more expensive.

    Putting land restrictions on what type of homes your allowed to build and how much you can build because of environmental concerns led to artificial scarcity. Artificial scarcity leads to more expensive prices because people try to outbid each other for the limited supply. The short term fix was to call landlords greedy and do price controls. But price controls on artificial created limited supply led to more expensive housing. And we have a problem of enough housing but a homeless crisis. Doing price controls again won’t work because we’ve already tried that.

    I’m for providing financial aid for right now to people that can’t afford housing but that won’t get to the core of what’s causing expensive housing. And is not a long term fix. Texas doesn’t have the same price controls and land restriction laws and has far cheaper housing. In California most of the expensive price is for the land rather then the house. People praised politicians for campaigning on affordable housing but just because it’s in the name doesn’t always mean it would happen.



    Location of where you buy homes also affects prices. Near the coast it’s more expensive. And it’s not because of greed. I don’t think anyone would make an argument that Housing in areas with lots of smog and pollution are affordable because owners are more generous.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 7, 2019
  3. supersonicwaffle

    supersonicwaffle GBAtemp Regular

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    This doesn’t apply to Germany, we have more doctors than ever. However older doctors in rural areas can’t find successors to take care of their patients as efficiency and thus earnings are much lower there seeing how earnings have a direct correlation with volume with fixed prices.
    There’s efforts to mitigate this like incentivizing commitment from students to go to rural areas through financial support.
    I can easily see as well how some changes to the system could cause student numbers to drop significantly.

    With regards to housing it’s very difficult and it’s something where you will see some of the weirdest stuff in German politics. The Green party in Germany is quite far to the left on social issues so you see them simultaneously jack up prices for building housing while decrying unaffordable housing.
    On the other hand it’s a necessity as housing is a huge part of our carbon footprint.
    Right now we’re at a point where even the social democrat party is openly talking about expropriation and “overcoming capitalism”
     
  4. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    He does mention Germany in his book and he says the number of doctors per capita in Britain was half of Germany. So it matches what you’re saying. Where half the hospital beds in Germany are in private hands. Private non profit and private for profit.

    http://leeconomics.com/01-Sowell-EconomicsMedicalCare.html



    Here in the States rent controls has lead to degradation of housing with reduced painting and repairs. It creates artificial high demand with limited supply so landlords don’t have incentives to make repairs and make them look nice enough to attract payers since they know people are desperate for homes and will pay for them anyway.


    Price controls and government paid services also creates the perception of cheaper/free services so people are more wasteful/greedy. They take more then necessary because it’s free so why not. This leaves less for everyone to else and the solution is to buy more which lead to higher costs.

    And the people that benefit from affordable housing are upper class people because it’s cheaper housing for them. So they buy up more then they need. It contributes to the problem of enough housing but homeless people.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 7, 2019
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  5. supersonicwaffle

    supersonicwaffle GBAtemp Regular

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    Yep, that seems about right, lot’s of hospitals, nursing homes and care services are run by non profits like churches.
    It’s an incredibly difficult discussion and one that requires to weigh different legitimate interests against one another and will probably end up with someone being thrown under the bus.

    Regulation on the housing market here tried to control rent prices but they allowed to circumvent it for new buildings and buildings that received significant renovations in order to keep invective for investments. What ended up happening is that real estate corporations renovated their buildings and jacked up the rent. This increased the average rent which is what the regulation is based on.
     
  6. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    The majority of private seems to be non profit from what I’m getting here. About a third of them.

    https://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/germany/


    It is a very difficult discussion on what’s contributing to lower Doctors in the UK but not Germany. Thomas Sowell attributes it to the private doing a better job then the Government.


    That’s what they did a few years prior to the 2008 recession. People bought homes for cheap taking advantage of the gov policies at the time then renovated and sell it quickly to make a profit. It was one of the contributing factors that eventually lead to a bubble burst.

    I wonder what they are going to say with Trump using executive order to lower drug prices. I wonder how many will say there must be a hidden sinister thing we’re not told about. Then use Republican arguments why setting lower prices is not a good thing. Or this doesn’t mean anything because Trump does a lot of bad things. And try to find a negative because it’s Trump.

    He’s criticizing previous presidents for not doing anything about this.

     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 7, 2019
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  7. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    The most communist country in the world!
    This is what happens to a democratic controlled constitutional Republic!
    They are domestic terrorist who don't belong here. If I had it my way, I would hang them all and pull of their toenails with pliers!
     
  8. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Sure, but the majority of those who receive government assistance are white.

    It's really a moot point though, none of these people are going to get deported simply for failing to contribute anything to the country. Otherwise Trump would've been deported ages ago for living entirely off his father's wealth. If we have the money to give out billions annually in corporate welfare, we have the money to pay for welfare for regular citizens. It's just a matter of what takes priority, and our priority for far too long has been an unhealthy worship of the rich.
     
  9. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    The most communist country in the world!
    So here it is in a nutshell.....
    A group of immigrants carrying their country flag marching toward our border is not migration, it is a invasion, A call for war!
    If they truly wanted to come here and assimilate and be proud Americans, then they would carry no flag or at least an American Flag!
    People are so naive and gullible that they cannot see the threat for what it truly is while they are looking at it!
     
  10. dAVID_

    dAVID_ Carpinter's Apprentice

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    I'm not sure if this is trolling or not.
     
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  11. Snugglevixen

    Snugglevixen Princess of Cuddles

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    On your lap.
    I thought California is a Democrat state?
     
  12. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    I didn't mention California.
     
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  13. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    Yes you are correct! I cannot believe I actually agree with you!
    But there is a real bad problem in the farming states with Illegals taking OUR jobs at under wage which leaves us with nothing!
    So in short the problem is purely greed!
     
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  14. Snugglevixen

    Snugglevixen Princess of Cuddles

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    On your lap.
    But they have a homeless problem.
     
  15. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    Only Troll's, Troll!
     
  16. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Glad we could find some common ground. Until the CEOs and business owners see serious repercussions for hiring on illegal immigrants, they'll keep doing it. And that will in turn keep incentivizing illegal immigration.

    Along with all 49 other states? Many of the homeless in California aren't originally from there, it's simply the hospitable climate which attracts them from across the entire country.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 8, 2019
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  17. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    There are a lot of factors that contribute to the homelessness rate, but one of the big driving forces is the income inequality crisis in the United States, and it's a continuing issue due to a failure of politicians at the federal level to do anything substantive about it.
     
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  18. PityOnU

    PityOnU GBAtemp Maniac

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    This is an interesting thread, with a lot of actual, on-topic debate going on, so I just figured I'd pose a further question here (I have thought about it a lot recently):

    So, I actually agree with OP in that the juxtaposition of immigration laws compared to the current support systems here in the USA really does encourage people to enter the country illegally - i.e. we strictly limit the number of people who can legally enter the country, but hand out free aid to everyone who manages to get in (legally or otherwise).

    How would people feel about making this change: Remove the limit on the number of people who enter the country. However, we DO limit the number of those people who have access to the support structure. What you would end up with is a case where anyone is welcome to come if they are willing to take the risk of supporting themselves without a safety net, whereas those more cautious ones would need to wait for an application process, just like is done for immigration currently.

    That seems as though it would solves most of the issues both sides have re: this topic.
     
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  19. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    Which will probably never happen for the simple fact money talks and bullshit walks, or something would have already been done and put in place to keep this from happening again.
    We need to continue flushing out the Beaurocrats!
     
    Last edited by Cylent1, Jul 8, 2019
  20. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    What support structure, exactly? As I've been pointing out, what supports illegals most is the fact that they're able to find employment in this country regardless of their citizenship status. Fines mean nothing to businesses if they're offset by the amount of money they can save by undercutting minimum wage. The penalty for CEOs/business owners needs to be jail time. Instead we've got one such offender sitting in the White House, and he insures that other crony capitalists can continue to hire illegals with impunity, so it's no wonder nothing actually gets fixed. Republican voters are entirely too focused on the illegal immigrants themselves, and not on the reasons why they're willing to risk immigrating illegally.
     
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