The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    You’re fine. No body will have a problem with you legally living in the U.S. And most people would be fine with Puerto Ricans.

    Illegal immigrants in other countries get deported all the time. But it’s become so politicized in the U.S.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 7, 2019
  2. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    The facts are
    1: They are not migrants or asylum seekers, they are illegal aliens.
    2: When you cross the border illegally at a non entry point, that is also Illegal.
    3: The Dems only want them here for votes, other than that, you are a useless POS to them.
    4: A country without borders is NOT a country.
    5: This is America and not Mexico! I should not have to press 2 for english!
    6: and last but not least, White Genocide in America will NEVER happen!

    I also find it funny not 1 of the so called migrants are gay or trans!
     
    Last edited by Cylent1, Jul 7, 2019
  3. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    I like your diet, well, one of my best friends growing up was from your country. His entire extended family lived around a 30 minute walk from my house, which I would walk over there often as he had a Super NES long before I got one. Anyway, his grandmother would cook these huge meals for the entire family every single day. To say the least, I ate a lot of your countries native dishes. I also believe that Puerto Ricans are considered USA citizens by default. So welcome to the main land and try to enjoy your stay!
     
    Last edited by cots, Jul 7, 2019
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  4. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    The reason why your heath care system is so expensive is not illegals. Its because you are the only developed country in the world that hasnt socialized health ensurance so there is "more money to be made". You see unregulated capitalism failing here, because competition pressure is all but gamed out. Your system is failing - its not the illegals stealing your money, thats the problem - which is what you are implying. Same thing here in europe, all migrants get medical care for free. You are still paying twice the amount of countries like the UK.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries

    With some regulation on prices and procedures available - you could at least save lets say 10-20 percent and increase coverage at the same time.

    Beto isnt even an endorsed candidate yet. Campaigning in Mexico doesnt bring votes. Or is there a large expats community? If yes, you talk to expats differently than you would to illegal migrants. No "come illegaly to my country and vote for me" angle to be had, I'm afraid. Illegals dont get to vote.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jul 7, 2019
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  5. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    I like #3. While I don't think that applies to every Democratic citizen, I think it mainly applies to the rich and powerful Democrats, mainly the business owners and politicians. Those do exist you know. You've got the 1% of rich and powerful old Democrats pulling the strings (on the left at least).

    While I agree with 1-5, I disagree with #6. If you're ever been to a larger city, you're going to run into various ethnic groups that either don't speak English at all or are terrible at it. English is our countries official language, but I don't have a problem with people that can't speak it. Maybe they just haven't had the opportunity to learn it yet. I wouldn't have to expect to learn Japanese to go to Japan (unless it was a requirement). I'm sure I'd pick up on it sooner or later, I mean, it would be hard if no one else spoke my language.
     
  6. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    I'm not so sure about that. Republicans seem to want to eliminate Obamacare and go back to the "free market" system we had before, a system which could be exploited for even more profit and less comprehensive coverage.

    I don't think it's possible for our immigration system to get much more overwhelmed than it is already. If we target the business owners and CEOs with harsh penalties and fines for hiring illegals, as well as make it clear that there's no planned "closure" of the border, I think you'd start to see illegal immigration decline sharply. There's also plenty to be done in reforming and revitalizing our system for asylum seekers, but treating them like criminals as we do under the current administration is certainly not the answer.

    Universal healthcare/M4A is more about taking care of our own citizens, anyway. Making sure that illegal immigrants don't expose our citizens to sicknesses and disease is part of achieving that goal. Additionally, healthcare as a human right is something we should be pushing to restore our moral standing on the world stage.

    At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if it's encouraged or discouraged. People are going to continue illegally crossing the border without getting caught, and those people are going to need to visit the hospital at one point or another. Either we leave the burden of those hospital visits on taxpayers at the ridiculously high price it's at now, or we bring that price down for everybody. Seems a pretty simple choice.
     
  7. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Its one thing that drives up costs. It’s People getting health care drives up costs. Illegals getting health care drives up costs. It’s not the sole reason. And in others posts I said Universal Care would be cheaper then the current system we have right now.

    There’s complaints about Health Care costs projected to get worse in places like Canada and the U.K. in the future.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 7, 2019
  8. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    An illegal immigrant living in this country would have to be mentally challenged to register to vote. They'd have ICE at their doorstep within 24 hours. This is about the dumbest anti-immigrant line that comes from Republicans. Hell, you're exponentially more likely to see an illegal immigrant working at a Trump hotel than standing in line at a voting booth.
     
  9. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Everyone wants to bring down the costs Republicans and Democrats.

    The last paragraph makes it seem like you’re arguing against someone whose against bringing down the costs. But that’s not it. We should bring down the costs whatever the best way possible. And that’s what many people are for.
     
  10. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    Our health care costs are extremely expensive, but the quality of the care is also better it you're willing to pay more. I'm not sure what other people are smoking, but if you don't have health insurance and show up in the ER they do the least amount possible to treat you and send you on your way. Don't expect any medication (unless you're dying) or preventive services. Got a broken arm? They'll set your bone, give you the cheapest shoulder sling they have, give you a prescription and send you on your way. You'll be luckily to get a single over the counter aspirin.

    The problem I have with universal health care is that the quality of the service is probably going to get worse then what is currently is. Say, if you're on Medicaid now, don't expect to get the most cutting edge procedure or the care you'd get if you had private insurance. Expect to be treated less equally then the people who pay for their insurance. I suspect if we socialize health care, that the quality of the service in general is going to degrade. One of the appealing aspects of becoming a Doctor, is sadly, money. These people will just go elsewhere (I see it happening now, so I expect it to get worse).

    Ideally, we'd live in an Utopia where people just want to help other people and set their personal differences aside for the betterment of the human race. So people would become Doctor's not for monetary gain, but to help cure and heal. Hey, it sounds fantastic. If this was the case, socialism would work, but it's not the case. Look at Doctor's who perform abortions. Clearly, killing babies isn't any sort of good deed. It's been proven time and time again that due to "bad" people that the failed system of socialism doesn't work out (and you're always going to have bad people, sin is in our nature).

    Shit just sucks and you can't control everyone. People like to play God. Especially people in power, like the rich Democratic leadership, who abuse their power on a daily basis for personal gain. I think if we're going to have an Utopia, these types of people need to vanish off the face of the Earth, and since that isn't going to happen, we're not going to have an Utopia. It's a pipe dream, a bedtime story, but we live in a world that will never be perfect and I realize this and I'm okay with that.

    I have my faith to get me through it. I don't need any more than that.
     
  11. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    I just don't hear Republican leadership talk about healthcare at all unless it's in the context of repealing Obamacare. They've voted on that like 50+ times. Which is absolutely ridiculous considering that it's basically Romney's healthcare plan with some slight changes. Yes, we need something better, but it's not necessary to repeal the bare minimum we have already before it's replaced.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 7, 2019
  12. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    They have a different idea of reducing costs. They believe unregulated market will reduce it, they use examples with Lasik Eye Surgery or Plastic Surgery being unregulated, not provided by government and is cheaper. They believe government intervention is why costs are up.
     
  13. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    If government intervention was the reason for higher costs, Medicare would be far more expensive than private healthcare coverage. Yet the opposite is true. The profit motive drives costs up substantially, and some things should be off-limits to the profit motive, healthcare among them.
     
  14. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    You would have to explain to Republicans why Lasik Eye and Plastic Surgery are not a good examples to use. Because they are fixated on them.
     
  15. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    They're not good examples because neither is a vital procedure. Not to mention both are still far cheaper in Mexico and other countries.
     
  16. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    Same here. We have private insurance on top of it (extra insurance). But all it actually gets you usually are reduced waiting times (when time is not of the essence), and sometimes - higher profile physicians. (Which arent always 'better'.) So it really can be argued, that it isn't needed at all.

    What socializing healthcare actually does is set a fixed price on all default procedures, and helps to drive down cost of medicaments, because you have large bodies (ensurence companies), that represent close to everybody - going into price negotiations with the pharma industry.

    It doesnt mean, that Pharma cant make any money - they still offer up some of the best paying jobs - if you are willing to drive around in the country and influence doctors out there. It just means, that one form of price gouging is eliminated.

    There is also the part of "yes socializing also means, that you are paying for the poorest" - but then hopefully that part of the demographic is so small - that the average tax payer, especially in your country with at least 1/3 more in per customer spending than the rest of the world, doesnt even notice it, and pays less over all.

    To "our medical system is the best though" - the reply is usually - canadas isnt so much worse - and look up its graph in the link above. ;)

    A "two tier" class system will always exist in some form I bet. Its just, that the market alone in your instance doesnt fully work. (Because of basically market consolidation (monopolies)).

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    In our country we actually have a multi tier system - where farmers for example get a little "better" (more well paying (for what its costing them)) insurance, because if they have health problems they are more at risk of loosing their livelihoods. That of course isnt very openly advertised, but anyone can look it up. ;) In general - our medical insurance system is solidarized (/socialized).

    In terms of getting good physicians - all university level clinics are at least partly state sponsored - and are open to the public. Thats how you ensure that everyone can get high level care regardless of the issue. And yes, if it is necessary - it is free. You are just paying your base rates, and maybe a small fee everytime you visit a clinic instead of a local doctor (to disincentivize people always running to clinics first.. ;) ).
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jul 7, 2019
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  17. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    What type of health care system Mexico has? Universal Health Care or Not? This should explain Mexico’s Eye Surgery prices.

    I get different prices in the U.S. depending where you go from low end or high end. Lower end is around the same price as Mexico’s average. And Mexico can go up to $3,000.


    Also what type of procedures are they doing in Mexico compared to U.S.? Are they doing lower end cutting which can give you dry eyes and night glare, or the more expensive more advance non cutting which will reduce these problems. You have to compare apples and apples, to see which is cheaper.
     
  18. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!

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    So far from the truth...


    And Trump fired all the illegals that lied to get a job at a trump job!
    https://apnews.com/4534e483fbf94e008622024dd0fc138b
     
  19. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    I don't think it's universal, they just aren't quite to the level of crony capitalism that America is. It's not just Mexico, either, as Americans will travel just about anywhere else in the world to get cheaper procedures. Cosmetic or otherwise.

    I'm sure you can get either type done.

    Can you link me to an actual quote from Obama and not just two airheads blabbing on about nonsense that their viewers want to hear? It doesn't change the fact that voting requires registration and registering would immediately get any illegal immigrant deported, but I'd be interested to hear this supposed quote anyway.

    If you want to take Trump's word for it, sure. Even most Republicans know his word isn't worth jack shit, though. The fact of the matter is that he continued to employ illegals well after being elected. It shows that he's personally benefiting from hard-line immigration stances, as he's able to pay them so much less that way.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 7, 2019
  20. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    I just read that japan f.e. does this without socializing health care. And it also keeps their cost down. Japanese. Always finding a way to be counter progressive.. ;)
     
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