1. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    Pretty much spot on. Trump in a speech was talking about a certain situation, one where there's massive voter fraud and he needs to contest the election. That's all what was said and that's exactly what I'd want both Trump or Biden to do if they could prove the other opponent cheated. You do want a fair election, don't you?

    Now onto the Liberals tactics. Yes, if you buy into the bullshit ABC and NBC news are running right now you'll notice they took what Trump said out of content and then implied he said something else and then wrote entire stories about what they implied he meant using bits and pieces of what he actually said.

    So yes, they are full of shit. They basically fabricated the stories they are running.

    (You'll notice Mitch didn't mention anyone by name, which is probably because Trump is saying he'll contest it over cheating and Biden is saying he'll contest it just because he lost).

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    No one said anything about dismantling anything. If Trump won by cheating I wouldn't want him being the President again.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    **********************************************************************************************************************

    It's pretty funny that people are all about bashing Trump for the lie claiming he's going to contest the election no matter what when a few weeks ago Biden formed a group of lawyers to contest the election for simply losing, regardless of reason. Just saying ....

    (Though, might this subject best be discussed in ...

    [POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

    https://gbatemp.net/threads/poll-2020-u-s-presidential-election.571721/)

    ???
     
    Last edited by gregory-samba, Sep 24, 2020
  2. monkeyman4412

    monkeyman4412 Gbatemp's moronic trash
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    1. Trump doesn't need to fake ballots. He needs them removed or slowed to the point they miss the date. That is why he placed Dejoy. Dejoy was caught however.
    What I would do is leave the country. At that point, my faith in this democracy is completely gone. I'm already situated to leave, like, only a couple of miles away from the Canadian border . I'm not sticking around for his fascist ass. There is not much I would be able to do, it would just be proof that thee system is completely dead.
    2. Well, I don't need to guess on that one. His campaign advisor admitted that they are coming up with a contingency plan to keeping him in office. And it involves the electoral collage. Essentially, after the election results and if they aren't favorable to him, he's going to claim it's voter fraud. And then install "loyal electors in battle ground states where Republicans hold legislative majority" to override voters. and have a second vote. Resulting in those battle ground states switching to red, against the public's interest. Worst part?
    Technically legal.
    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/tr...lection-results-and-keep-him-in-power-report/
     
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  3. KingVamp

    KingVamp Haaah-hahahaha!
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    So, how do you determine people that want a few new laws from people that actually want socialism?

    On a different note, what does identity politics means to you?
     
  4. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Thats all this question inherently is about.

    Democracy is pretty much just a system that allows for 'smooth' transition of power, so your needs to get into civil wars gets diminished. Which makes the political landscape much more stable and everybody wins.

    This includes 'recognizing a win of your opponent' even if stuff is still 'in flux' (investigation on voting fraud, f.e.) - because after a while you postpone 'personal, or fractional (dems, or reps)' interests, in recognition of 'national interest'.

    Meaning, if you take too much time there - people start questioning democracy, and nobody wants that, right, right?

    Well, Trump currently plays with the notion, that he might.


    The issue here actually is, that in some cases you cant wait until an independent body has investigated a claim fully (because that could take, a year or more). But you still f.e. resign your claim, because you know, that the outcome could be made public knowledge and help your side win the next election.

    So no 'justice' but, 'structurally not so bad either'.

    Thats what this entire question is about. Thats why reporters are asking it at least once every week now. ;)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 24, 2020
  5. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    It used to be hard to identify the socialists, because they lied and claimed they weren't socialists. It's pretty easy now a days because the ones that used to lie openly admit they are socialists now.

    I'd answer your second question, but it's off topic to this discussion and my response would probably get my post deleted.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    I believe there will be a smooth transition to power. Both sides have over a month to deal with cheating or anything that may come up in the courts. If Trump loses fair and square I would not support him trying to become some dictator and if Biden loses fair and square I'd expect him to concede. If either of them simply outright refuse to concede by January 20th there's going to be rioting that'll make these nonsensual race protests look like a minuscule dot.
     
    Last edited by gregory-samba, Sep 24, 2020
  6. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Thats the thing, in the Bush/Gore election case recounts could be finished in that time, but not a fully fledged investigation on incongruencies with voter registration lists.

    So there comes the point, where you as a candidate are faced with a decision if you still want to bank on your chance to win, once all of this is cleared up, and in the meantime, communicate that to your 'fans' who might, just might, flock to the streets with semiautomatic rifles "in your defense", as they've done in the past, .... and then - you wait. For more than a month.

    While the entire country has a wtf is this, what happened to democracy, there are armed paramilitaries on the streets, moment.. ;)

    Which is why contingencies on 'resigning your claim' are questioned before this happens - by press. And custom is that you say 'yeah, yeah, I honor the tradition'. ;) Not - well I have these paramilitary units, that would act in my interest if push comes to shove, .... ;)

    If its a clear win for either side, none of this will become an issue. But it doesnt look like that currently.

    I personally also doubt, that Trump will be advised to 'go that far' if it comes to that decision point. But he plays with the notion. Purposefully 'misunderstanding' the nature of that question.

    Next step could be implementation of autocratic rule. You are playing with "rituals" of democracy here.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 24, 2020
  7. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    I honestly think people are blowing the issue out of proportion. We've never had a President not transfer over power after they lost an election. I'd say the dishonest stories running on Liberal news media sites aren't helping the problem, but their point is to post fake news to rile up their base. It's just sad there base is too stupid to do their own research to look at exactly what Trump said and why he said it. To them reading a single news article is somehow the de-facto way to find out the truth. They're pretty gullible.
     
  8. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    I think so too. But it all depends on outcome. And for the purpose of not having your entire society 'guess' until that point, you have those rituals.

    Which Trump didnt honor. In my opinion this is just 'trolling' ('anti system bravado') - but the notion that you are supposed to guess, up until its happening, ... is - uniquely Trump. ;)
     
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  9. xaxa

    xaxa Advanced Member
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    (1) Even if you think it's impossible, what if Trump won the election and then afterwards we found out that he cheated using forged or fake ballots and by making ballots of people who voted for Biden vanish? In this unlikely situation what would you do?

    If you bring up an improbable situation, you will end up with improbable reactions. This is a dumb premise, and you might as well argue over superhero or primed athlete matchups.

    (2) Now let me ask you something. What if Biden won, but then Trump refused to accept the results and contested the election just because he lost.
    You solicit a vote recount. This is merely a formality though because the real election won't be until December when the Electoral College goes to vote and in the event of some tie, the incumbent will also have the advantage. I foresee a recount regardless of who wins.
     
  10. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    The goal of my questioning was to make Trump seem like the bad guy. If you swap Trump's name for Biden's then you'll be in exact same situation that we're in now. So if you swap Trump for Biden you'll see how ridiculous the Left's take on this situation is. I agree that if Biden won it's very unlikely Trump would be ever able to prove massive cheating and the second one is correct as there would be a recount regardless if it's Biden or Trump who won and that it's really left up to the members of the electoral college to vote for him based on what the popular vote reflected in their districts. Just go swap all instances in my questions of Trump with Biden and you'll see how ridiculous peoples thought processes are. It's like if Trump contests the vote then it's bad, but if Biden does it then that's good. You can see the double standards clearly regarding this matter.

    The best thing you can do to ensure there's less chance of someone vanishing your ballot is to show up at a place that collects ballots on election day and turn yours in personally to a staff member. I'm not sure if the States that are doing mail in only voting will have such places though. If there is indeed massive voter fraud, like, if they find a bunch of illegal aliens voted in California that we get the valid votes counted and the rest thrown out. I don't want either Trump or Biden to be the President if either side massively cheated.
     
    Last edited by gregory-samba, Sep 24, 2020
  11. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Not at all.

    Listen and learn a thing. So lets get back to our hypothetical situation where Trump refuses to resign his claim to victory and it has been more than a month.

    Normally, in a democracy what would happen next is for people to organize protests eventually to increase public preasure, but in our hypothetical it is very likely that armed groups would tend to the streets to 'protect the chances of their president'.And then you really only are inches away from a civil war.

    This potential series of events is unique to the political right movement under Trump, You have right wing groups announcing right now "I only wait for the shoot command from our president", getting busted by national agencies, so role reversal doesnt get you the theoretical equality in situation you are seeking, to ridicule the concern.

    Messing with democratic rituals is dangerous and has an effect. You dont do it litely, and why you'd want to provoke eskalating the situation that way on part of the POTUS is another unanswered question, that is unique to this administration.

    Furthermore, we are at the stages where trump resorted to eugenics in his speeches and congratulated his supporter on having the better genes. So we are inches away from a full blown fashist uprising. And the only thing that holds people in relative complacency is the understanding, that you are dealing with a maniacal personality type, that says things, without thinking them through.

    But if you see all those things as strategy, it becomes really scary.

    No role reversal possible. All of that is Trump.

    This is ste status quo:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53980128
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 25, 2020
  12. D34DL1N3R

    D34DL1N3R Nephilim
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    Trump simply pretending to be a good guy during election time. Nothing to see here.
     
  13. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    Little note. Fascism was created by the same group that created socialism so I'm not sure what it has to do with Trump or the right.

    Your hypothetical outcome is no different than mine, but I highly doubt Trump will refuse to concede to a fair election. With mail in ballots and how behind the post office is we might have to wait a few days after the election to find out what the popular vote is meaning we may not get an answer of who the electoral college votes for a few days after the ballots are counted. If Trump does refuse to leave office "just because he lost" or Biden refuses to concede "just because he lost" there's going to be hell to pay.

    I for one wouldn't support either situation, but we're simply discussing hypotheticals as what the Left is claiming Trump said and meant isn't what he said nor what he meant. They're getting their panties in a mess over fake news.

    To clarify what he said and meant, during his press conference he stated that he'd challenge the results if there was widespread fraud. That's a normal reaction that I hope both sides would do if for some reason our election was infiltrated by domestic or foreign actors. If for some unlikely reason there is widespread fraud there's more than a month to sort the issue out before inauguration day and established methods to deal with contested elections.
     
    Last edited by gregory-samba, Sep 25, 2020
  14. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely not true, and I studied history for two two semester.
    edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism

    Also you have people with guns in the streets, paramilitary fractions that announce publically, they just wait for the shoot command from your president, a leader that resorts to eugenics (with entire stadiums applauding that), then following that up with a insult towards "the jews" in his speeches (source for all that is in the topic none of you has found the need to comment on yet, because this is gbatemp, where right wingers protect rightwingers from any facts), and he refuses to acknowledge rather important democratic rituals -

    and people have already been killed in the streets.

    What else do you need?

    Him wearing a T-Shirt with "I'm with fashists" on it?
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 25, 2020
  15. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    Wikipedia's articles on both socialism and fascism are really, really, really biased. I dare you to reject the status quo and expand your mind.

    Difference Between Fascism And National Socialism

    Fascism and National Socialism are both systems of government. They are similar in several ways. Racism seems to be an issue that is common to both systems. So, for better understanding, we will be explaining the difference between both terms. I am sure you will understand better after reading the explanations.

    What is the difference between Fascism and National Socialism?

    People tend to confuse Fascism and National Socialism to mean the same thing. The confusion mostly comes from the fact that National Socialism comes from Fascism. However, they are not entirely the same. There is a difference between Fascism and National Socialism. One primary difference between Fascism and National Socialism lies in its roots. We can trace the origin of Fascism to Italy, while that of National Socialism to Germany.

    https://www.thefreemanonline.org/difference-between-fascism-and-national-socialism/

    PragerU and Dinesh D’Souza Unearth the Leftist Roots of Fascism

    “...historians, most of whom are on the political left, had to erase [the father of fascism] from history in order to avoid confronting fascism’s actual beliefs,” says Dinesh D’Souza, bestselling author and filmmaker.

    LOS ANGELES — Since the 1970s, nearly every Republican politician has been labeled a fascist by the left at some point in their career. The slur is often pointed directly at conservative presidents, including the current office-holder, President Trump. In PragerU’s newest video, “Is Fascism Right or Left?”, bestselling author and filmmaker, Dinesh D’Souza corrects the record by exposing fascism’s true beginnings as a left-wing ideology rooted in socialism.

    https://www.prageru.com/press-relea...d'souza-unearth-the-leftist-roots-of-fascism/
     
    Last edited by gregory-samba, Sep 25, 2020
  16. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    I'm not even reading that, taking a glance at the parts you made fat.
    edit: And the source you used: https://www.motherjones.com/politic...als-conservative-prageru-video-dennis-prager/

    You have lost all legitimization. You tried to manufacture a role reversal in here, to show 'just how silly' and overblown the accusations were.

    Then you got countered in every point. Then you started to produce historical lies, and now you are the person that is explaining to us the most placative of political concepts?


    Hey and nice going, to change your avatar, so he now has blood on his face. Or is it just paintball paint? Yesterday that side was still blue on your avatar.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 25, 2020
  17. gregory-samba

    OP gregory-samba GBAtemp Fan
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    Oh well. There's also an informative video. Your loss.
     
  18. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Your lies.

    Also all of this is off topic, backpaddling, sidetracking.

    If I'd want to learn history, referencing your sources, something must have went horribly wrong. As stated in the article I posted, your source panders to people like you, has activist intention, and a political motivation, and usually leaves out parts they deem unfavorable.


    So paintball enthusiast, or blood and honor fan? Which one is it? Why is your Mel Gibson avatar bloody all of a sudden?
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 25, 2020
  19. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Turns out I was not cynical enough.

     
  20. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Eric Trump lying into camera with mood music in the background, building his own 'election day army' to prevent 'them' to 'steal the election from his father':

    While the campaign discusses strategies, of ignoring voting outcome and appointing delegates based on state emergency decisions.

    1000 republican lawyers prepped to challenge the voting results on every level.



    This will get ugly.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Sep 26, 2020
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