Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

[tabzer]

On topic... I already gave you sources in my original post. You asked for them after I already had provided them in the very post you were asking me to provide sources for. So. Shrug. Happy Easter.

You mentioned that it happened on Youtube sometime during Trump's term. I was asking for something more specific.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

You mentioned that it happened on Youtube sometime during Trump's term. I was asking for something more specific.

No. You're wrong, again. I very specifically stated the OFFICIAL White House YouTube and Twitter accounts.

 

[tabzer]

And my response is that your imagination is running a little too wild. If you really believe that all it takes to live off the land in the US is "imagination," you've clearly never once visited here or even reviewed a small portion of our property laws.

I already said the the decisions you may have to make may out you at odds with some of that. I never said that you can live off the land with only pure imagination. Disingenuous through and through.

Imperialism and capitalism go hand-in-hand.

Lol no.

For how long? A day, a week, a month? I too prefer to do business with individuals instead of corporations whenever possible, but it's not something you can keep doing for your entire life. At least not here. Camping, hunting, fishing, logging, etc all require a license and/or property rights too.

About 2 years in the US and about 6 months in Canada. You should try it if you think you are being honest. Look up WWOOF. Anyway, it's my opinion that you are not providing, but just complaining. So nothing is going to "work" wherever you remain a variable.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

No. You're wrong, again. I very specifically stated the OFFICIAL White House YouTube and Twitter accounts.

It's not wrong. I asked you to be more specific.

100% complete lies. I saw plenty of videos/posts from official White House accounts when Trump was in office that had comments disabled, including on both Twitter and YouTube. Get out of here with that bullshit.

To me, though it is potentially believable, doesn't escape being bullshit. Flipping out and not providing actual evidence.

 

[Xzi]

Lol no.

The irony of someone with a Japanese flag claiming that America is not imperialist, rofl. Too rich.

About 2 years in the US and about 6 months in Canada.

The argument I made at the beginning of all this is that it isn't possible to live a full life, from birth to death, inside of the US without participating in capitalism. I never claimed you couldn't abstain from it for short periods of time. So while you might've thought you were arguing against me here, you really only further proved my point.

Look up WWOOF.

Seems like a good program, but still not entirely divorced from capitalism assuming the farmers go on to sell their crops to supermarkets and the like.

 

[tabzer]

The irony of someone with a Japanese flag claiming that America is not imperialist, rofl. Too rich.

I didn't say that. Not even close.

The argument I made at the beginning of all this is that it isn't possible to live a full life, from birth to death, inside of the US without participating in capitalism. I never claimed you couldn't abstain from it for short periods of time. So while you might've thought you were arguing against me here, you really only further proved my point.

"Yeah I've already said it's possible...by moving to a non-capitalist country. Or starving to death in protest of capitalism."

My point is that you love capitalism too much to leave it and are offering every excuse imaginable.

 

[Xzi]

I didn't say that. Not even close.

Nobody who's ever passed a high school US/world history class would make a statement as dumb as, "lol no, imperialism and capitalism do not go hand-in-hand."

"Yeah I've already said it's possible...by moving to a non-capitalist country. Or starving to death in protest of capitalism."

My point is that you love capitalism too much to leave it and are offering every excuse imaginable.

Why am I not surprised you chose to omit the part of the quote where I said I'm currently working toward moving. Or that you ignored my admission that not all capitalist countries are created equal.

Every time you try to make this personal, your arguments lose more credibility.

 

[Foxi4]

Nobody who's ever passed a high school US/world history class would make a statement as dumb as, "lol no, imperialism and capitalism do not go hand-in-hand."

The notion that imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism and a natural outgrowth of colonialism is literally a Lenin quote. There's no shortage of strictly capitalist countries that were never particularly interested in expanding their borders by way of conquest. It's also rich for Lenin to claim that considering the USSR, the natural evolutionary outgrowth of Leninism, was one of the most imperialistic states in human history. I don't understand why people attribute the shortcomings of various systems of government to capitalism - the British Empire didn't conquer half of Africa for the sake of establishing private enterprise there, they did it for the enrichment of the Crown. In all factuality, imperialism is incompatible with the core concepts of capitalism and only a true Leninist would claim otherwise. Nothing says "voluntary participation in the market" like "military conquest and indentured servitude". You'd be hard-pressed to find a thinker on the opposite side of the aisle who shares your point of view, and I assure you that they passed their exams just fine.

 

[Xzi]

The notion that imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism and a natural outgrowth of colonialism is literally a Lenin quote.

Well it's not as though Lenin is the only person throughout history to comment on the connections between the two. Despite Eisenhower's warnings, the US military-industrial complex remains a perpetual imperialism machine to this day.

the British Empire didn't conquer half of Africa for the sake of establishing private enterprise there, they did it for the enrichment of the Crown.

And yet they did establish private enterprise there, along with everywhere else they invaded. Arguing about which was their "primary" motivation at the time is an exercise in pointlessness.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

It's not wrong. I asked you to be more specific. To me, though it is potentially believable, doesn't escape being bullshit. Flipping out and not providing actual evidence.

Flipping out? No further comment on that. Take that bit to PM if you wish to argue about it, as instructed my Foxi.

Back to the point. You asked for specifics. I gave them to you. Now you want MORE specifics. It never ends with you. NOTHING is good enough. You know FULL well that those YouTube vids and Tweets from the Trump admin have all been deleted. What you're asking is a bad faith request to begin with, and you know it. I can even probably guess your next post. Something along the lines of "Oh? So no proof then? Never happened." Like all the times I called you out on your hypocrisy here, only to have our posts deleted by Foxi and to have you then claim "No proof!!!" when you knew full well I had no way of restoring posts deleted by a mod. No proof does not equate didn't happen. If I took more time with this than I already have, I'm 100% certain I could find concrete proof. Thing is, I don't care enough to take more time than I already have. Don't believe me that it ever happened? I don't care.

 

[tabzer]

Flipping out? No further comment on that. Take that bit to PM if you wish to argue about it, as instructed my Foxi.

Back to the point. You asked for specifics. I gave them to you. Now you want MORE specifics. It never ends with you. NOTHING is good enough. You know FULL well that those YouTube vids and Tweets from the Trump admin have all been deleted. What you're asking is a bad faith request to begin with, and you know it. I can even probably guess your next post. Something along the lines of "Oh? So no proof then? Never happened." Like all the times I called you out on your hypocrisy here, only to have our posts deleted by Foxi and to have you then claim "No proof!!!" when you knew full well I had no way of restoring posts deleted by a mod. No proof does not equate didn't happen. If I took more time with this than I already have, I'm 100% certain I could find concrete proof. Thing is, I don't care enough to take more time than I already have. Don't believe me that it ever happened? I don't care.

Your anecdote is very interesting. Too bad that's all it amounts to.

 

[Xzi]

Your anecdote is very interesting. Too bad that's all it amounts to.

Nah he captured every bit of your essence perfectly in a single post. There's a famous historical quote that does so too, just with different wording:

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

- Jean-Paul Sartre

If that offends you, feel free to replace "anti-Semites" with "Trump supporters," though for the most part the two groups are one and the same.

 

[tabzer]

Nobody who's ever passed a high school US/world history class would make a statement as dumb as, "lol no, imperialism and capitalism do not go hand-in-hand."

One should not be so "dumb" to claim mutual dependence between capitalism and imperialism... yet here we are.

Why am I not surprised you chose to omit the part of the quote where I said I'm currently working toward moving

Because we both know that it is lip service and is not noteworthy.

 

[Xzi]

One should not be so "dumb" to claim mutual dependence between capitalism and imperialism... yet here we are.

So essentially your argument boils down to: it's just "coincidence" that the two most wealthy and prominent capitalist empires throughout history were/are also the most imperialist. Yeah, nobody's buying that.

Because we both know that it is lip service and is not noteworthy.

Frankly I couldn't give half a shit if a neocon who defends and attempts to justify all of capitalism's flaws believes me or not, the discussion never needed to become personal in the first place. You were just looking for an out after all of your previous arguments fell flat on their face.

Edit: Not that you care I'm sure, but the most difficult part of moving would be leaving my family and friends behind, not anything having to do with capitalism. It also doesn't help that being poor is expensive in America, and the pandemic drained much of my savings.

 

[Deleted User]

Any payment made to the state is not "capitalist" by definition, capitalism concerns private entities. The state is not a private entity - it's the state. The reason why it's not an element of capitalism, has never been an element of capitalism and cannot be capitalist is because the state is not a part of the market - the government has monopoly on taxation and state services. When you're unhappy with how your council patched up the road outside of your house, you can't give it a bad review on Google and call up a different council to do the job better. The government doesn't operate in a system of free market competition - you can't go start a new government to compete. The government just takes your money because it's the government and it can - whether what you own has any value or not is completely irrelevant. I don't know who told you that "if it concerns money, it's capitalism", but that's just wrong by definition. As far as rulers are concerned, even the most ancient societies we know of have been organised around one or multiple figures of authority like elders, patriarchs or matrons - there are very few exceptions. If you consider that to be broad strokes, I guess all I can do is shrug. Even non-human primates usually cluster around some kind of "alpha" monkey, it's entirely possible that it's in our DNA to seek out and follow leaders, or organise our societies in a manner that enables us to select our leadership. That's neither here nor there though.

Not going to agree with your whole "alpha" shit right there because that isn't scientifically true at all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/no-such-thing-alpha-male-2016-10?amp
This also applies to other species.

Considering that we are a social species we are bound to group up, and because social has social implications. There's no intristic trait or that kind of bullshit in DNA.
And I'm sure your not vouching for eugenics, and I hope not. Since that would be a pretty eugenics kind of thing right there.
Moving on from that.
Fine, you can argue that money based taxes it's not capitalistic. I'll give you the win.

But even then, consequences occur.
A. The people making laws are backed by giant corporations, in which case they are pretty much required to fulfill their duties to those companies. In which I wouldn't be suprised if a retailer or two got involved with lobbying a bill or three. then with the threat of loosing your home, you could say the government is forcing people to remain in a capitalist system... which is made up of captalists... passing laws....
B.
Failure to comply with paying propery tax/participating in the system, or retailer and so on,
and what it means, is actually a really simple answer.
You die.
So you either die trying to avoid capitalism, or you live in a system that is bent backwards on making most money possible.
You choose to not pay your retailer. Your odds of death increase while being homeless (prolonged exposure to the environment)
You choose not to pay property taxes.
You end up homeless and again, increase your odds of death.
It's fucked up either way.
Again goes back to not participating in the system to be non optional for most. Unless your stupidly rich.

 

[Xzi]

Again goes back to not participating in the system to be non optional for most. Unless your stupidly rich.

And even then you can be sure the wealth you were born into wasn't earned via underwater basket weaving, it was generated by exploiting workers much further down the chain than dad. It doesn't get any more capitalist than that.

 

[smf]

No explicit law.
But last time I checked taxes are a thing right?
I mean, owning land still requires you to pay property taxes.

Save up first, or get a job with the state that allows you to cover the taxes.

capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

Money exists outside of capitalism.

 

[Foxi4]

Not going to agree with your whole "alpha" shit right there because that isn't scientifically true at all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/no-such-thing-alpha-male-2016-10?amp
This also applies to other species.

Considering that we are a social species we are bound to group up, and because social has social implications. There's no intristic trait or that kind of bullshit in DNA.
And I'm sure your not vouching for eugenics, and I hope not. Since that would be a pretty eugenics kind of thing right there.
Moving on from that.
Fine, you can argue that money based taxes it's not capitalistic. I'll give you the win.

But even then, consequences occur.
A. The people making laws are backed by giant corporations, in which case they are pretty much required to fulfill their duties to those companies. In which I wouldn't be suprised if a retailer or two got involved with lobbying a bill or three. then with the threat of loosing your home, you could say the government is forcing people to remain in a capitalist system... which is made up of captalists... passing laws....
B.
Failure to comply with paying propery tax/participating in the system, or retailer and so on,
and what it means, is actually a really simple answer.
You die.
So you either die trying to avoid capitalism, or you live in a system that is bent backwards on making most money possible.
You choose to not pay your retailer. Your odds of death increase while being homeless (prolonged exposure to the environment)
You choose not to pay property taxes.
You end up homeless and again, increase your odds of death.
It's fucked up either way.
Again goes back to not participating in the system to be non optional for most. Unless your stupidly rich.

I hope you realise that you're posting an opinion piece on Business Insider (the best source of information about animal behaviour, no doubt) about one researcher that has an opinion that goes against decades of research in the field. Dominance hierarchies have been observed across multiple species. In many cases subordinate members of groups don't even get to mate unless they use trickery. In terms of non-human primates they're observable in groups of gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans etc., so no - this *doesn't* "translate to other species", you're demonstrably wrong. Even if it does not apply to wolves (which is highly debatable), it most certainly applies to other species, particularly primates which we were talking about (and which wolves are not, by the way). You also don't seem to be aware of what a turn of phrase is. When someone says "it's in your blood/genes/DNA" they don't necessarily mean that there's a specific isolated gene that does X, it's a reference to a recurring trait. For instance, if a son of a great driver is also a good driver, you might say "it's in his DNA". That doesn't necessarily mean that we've isolated a magical "driving gene", although in the case of dominance hierarchies you may as well treat it literally, it works both ways.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/...30425_todays_phrase_it_is_in_her_genes1.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_hierarchy

Money exists outside of capitalism.

That's already been explained to him, but he doesn't accept that, so... Shrug?

I'm still unclear how this entire exchange relates to Joe Biden and his presidency though, I sure hope someone will explain the connection soon because, as I've mentioned earlier, all of this talk about "living off the grid" that brought us here seems grossly off-topic.

 

[tthousand]

I have a feeling all the off-topic of the last several pages is controlled opposition. SMF, Xzi, and monkeyboy were all on the same side at the start of this thread, and now they have been going on for pages arguing what arguably has nothing to do with this thread. And if it's not controlled opposition, it might just be a reflection of today's far-left followers, where as soon as one of their own start to step out of line, they gang up on the individual.

This thread really beautifully illustrates which side the bullying is coming from. It is clear to see one side who does their best to have a civil conversation, and then there is the other side that is always condescending and down right rude.

>> FOLLOW ME TO THE TOPIC >>

I saw this today and thought I would share it...

Allegations of Vote Fraud Rebutted

In Nevada, despite it being illegal to offer anything of value in exchange for voting, officials from the Reno-Sparks Indian Colony were videoed offering gift cards, bracelets, necklaces, earrings, T-shirts, and masks to Indians who voted. "This was a normal get-out-the-vote activity," said RSIC spokeswoman Bethany Sam in an interview standing next to a Biden-Harris campaign bus wearing a Biden-Harris face mask. "We didn't tell anyone who to vote for and didn't ask anyone who they voted for." Jacqueline De León, staff attorney for the Native American Rights Fund, maintains that "Ms Sam's statement clearly proves that no law was violated."

In Georgia, a video shows Democrat poll workers pulling cases of votes from under a table after GOP poll watchers were sent away. Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger acknowledged that "some ballots were counted unlawfully and in secret. Yes, the GOP poll watchers were unnecessarily sent home for what turned out to be a minor water leak, but can we really condemn the brave Democrats who at great risk to themselves stayed on an continued the work? I think not. Besides, at this point all the ballots counted in the video have been mixed in with all the legitimate ballots. There's no way to separate out the unlawfully counted ones. So we can't determine whether the secretly counted votes were for Trump or Biden. The election will have to stand as is."

In Minnesota, a witness made a sworn affidavit declaring that he saw "a busload of severely mentally handicapped people who were forced by handlers to vote for Joe Biden. The handlers literally held the handicapped person's hand in theirs and marked the ballot for them." State Attorney General Keith Ellison (D) dismissed this evidence, calling it "inconclusive. Perhaps the handicapped voters were whispering their choices to the handlers. After all, it makes sense that a mentally-challenged voter would want to vote for the mentally-challenged presidential candidate. And even if they didn't whisper, the person helping them would likely surmise that it was in that person's best interest to cast their ballot for Biden. So, no harm, no foul."

In Michigan, nearly a thousand witnesses have made sworn statements that they personally observed vote fraud. State Representative Cynthia Johnson (D) called these witnesses "a bunch of liars. Every election official has assured me that there was no fraud. Every media outlet I have seen says there was no fraud." Reminded that lying in sworn testimony is perjury, Johnson remained adamant in her trust of government officials and the media, saying "the opinions of important people have to be given more weight than the ravings of lunatics."

In Pennsylvania, Jesse Morgan, a truck driver for a subcontractor with the United States Postal Service, says he drove a trailer containing an estimated 288,000 ballots from Bethpage, New York to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D) insisted that "there's nothing odd about this. The whole point of mail-in ballots is that the voter doesn't have to appear in-person to vote. New York and Pennsylvania share a long border. Pennsylvanians often cross that border for business or pleasure. It's not inconceivable to me that 288,000 could've have been in Bethpage, New York when they mailed in their ballots."

In Arizona, Maricopa County GOP chairwoman Linda Brickman testified before members of the Arizona State Legislature that she "personally observed votes for President Donald Trump being tallied as votes for Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden when input into Dominion machines. When I brought this to the attention of election supervisors others in the room also commented that they had witnessed the same manipulation." Secretary of State Katie Hobbs (D) characterized Brickman's testimony as "delusional" and contended that corroboration by others "is a case of mass hysteria of the kind we've come to expect from Trump's neo-Nazi base of supporters."

In Washington DC, Attorney General Bill Barr issued a statement admitting that "it sure looks like there was a lot of 'hank-panky' going on with those after-hours ballot dumps. However, at this point, the bogus ballots are all mixed in with the legal ballots, so there's no way to tell whether the bogus ballots favored Trump or Biden. Obviously, a crime has been committed, but we have no way to determine who the guilty parties are. For better or worse, we'll just have to let the tallies stand where they are and accept Joe Biden as the nation's next president. I hope the people of America understand that the FBI did their best to investigate this and unify behind our next president as he carries out the mandate he received from the vote counters."

 

[Lacius]

I have a feeling all the off-topic of the last several pages is controlled opposition. SMF, Xzi, and monkeyboy were all on the same side at the start of this thread, and now they have been going on for pages arguing what arguably has nothing to do with this thread. And if it's not controlled opposition, it might just be a reflection of today's far-left followers, where as soon as one of their own start to step out of line, they gang up on the individual.

This thread really beautifully illustrates which side the bullying is coming from. It is clear to see one side who does their best to have a civil conversation, and then there is the other side that is always condescending and down right rude.

>> FOLLOW ME TO THE TOPIC >>

I saw this today and thought I would share it...

Allegations of Vote Fraud Rebutted

In Nevada, despite it being illegal to offer anything of value in exchange for voting, officials from the Reno-Sparks Indian Colony were videoed offering gift cards, bracelets, necklaces, earrings, T-shirts, and masks to Indians who voted. "This was a normal get-out-the-vote activity," said RSIC spokeswoman Bethany Sam in an interview standing next to a Biden-Harris campaign bus wearing a Biden-Harris face mask. "We didn't tell anyone who to vote for and didn't ask anyone who they voted for." Jacqueline De León, staff attorney for the Native American Rights Fund, maintains that "Ms Sam's statement clearly proves that no law was violated."

In Georgia, a video shows Democrat poll workers pulling cases of votes from under a table after GOP poll watchers were sent away. Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger acknowledged that "some ballots were counted unlawfully and in secret. Yes, the GOP poll watchers were unnecessarily sent home for what turned out to be a minor water leak, but can we really condemn the brave Democrats who at great risk to themselves stayed on an continued the work? I think not. Besides, at this point all the ballots counted in the video have been mixed in with all the legitimate ballots. There's no way to separate out the unlawfully counted ones. So we can't determine whether the secretly counted votes were for Trump or Biden. The election will have to stand as is."

In Minnesota, a witness made a sworn affidavit declaring that he saw "a busload of severely mentally handicapped people who were forced by handlers to vote for Joe Biden. The handlers literally held the handicapped person's hand in theirs and marked the ballot for them." State Attorney General Keith Ellison (D) dismissed this evidence, calling it "inconclusive. Perhaps the handicapped voters were whispering their choices to the handlers. After all, it makes sense that a mentally-challenged voter would want to vote for the mentally-challenged presidential candidate. And even if they didn't whisper, the person helping them would likely surmise that it was in that person's best interest to cast their ballot for Biden. So, no harm, no foul."

In Michigan, nearly a thousand witnesses have made sworn statements that they personally observed vote fraud. State Representative Cynthia Johnson (D) called these witnesses "a bunch of liars. Every election official has assured me that there was no fraud. Every media outlet I have seen says there was no fraud." Reminded that lying in sworn testimony is perjury, Johnson remained adamant in her trust of government officials and the media, saying "the opinions of important people have to be given more weight than the ravings of lunatics."

In Pennsylvania, Jesse Morgan, a truck driver for a subcontractor with the United States Postal Service, says he drove a trailer containing an estimated 288,000 ballots from Bethpage, New York to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D) insisted that "there's nothing odd about this. The whole point of mail-in ballots is that the voter doesn't have to appear in-person to vote. New York and Pennsylvania share a long border. Pennsylvanians often cross that border for business or pleasure. It's not inconceivable to me that 288,000 could've have been in Bethpage, New York when they mailed in their ballots."

In Arizona, Maricopa County GOP chairwoman Linda Brickman testified before members of the Arizona State Legislature that she "personally observed votes for President Donald Trump being tallied as votes for Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden when input into Dominion machines. When I brought this to the attention of election supervisors others in the room also commented that they had witnessed the same manipulation." Secretary of State Katie Hobbs (D) characterized Brickman's testimony as "delusional" and contended that corroboration by others "is a case of mass hysteria of the kind we've come to expect from Trump's neo-Nazi base of supporters."

In Washington DC, Attorney General Bill Barr issued a statement admitting that "it sure looks like there was a lot of 'hank-panky' going on with those after-hours ballot dumps. However, at this point, the bogus ballots are all mixed in with the legal ballots, so there's no way to tell whether the bogus ballots favored Trump or Biden. Obviously, a crime has been committed, but we have no way to determine who the guilty parties are. For better or worse, we'll just have to let the tallies stand where they are and accept Joe Biden as the nation's next president. I hope the people of America understand that the FBI did their best to investigate this and unify behind our next president as he carries out the mandate he received from the vote counters."

At best, some of these claims are baseless accusations without supporting evidence. At worst, some of these claims have been debunked.

 

[tthousand]

At best, some of these claims are baseless accusations without supporting evidence. At worst, some of these claims have been debunked.

At this point, you just debunk yourself.

"We the people" have yet to see any concrete evidence one way or the other in regards to last year's election.