Students want watch leader who shot Trayvon Martin arrested

smile72

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ORLANDO, Florida (AP) — The case of a white neighborhood watch captain who shot an unarmed black teen last month has prompted student protests in Florida on Monday, and is garnering national attention as civil rights leaders, politicians and even the White Houseweigh in.​


But authorities may be hamstrung by a state law that allows people to defend themselves with deadly force.​
Students held rallies on the campus of Florida A&M University in Tallahassee and outside the courthouse in nearby Sanford, where prosecutors are reviewing the case to determine if charges should be filed. The students demanded the arrest of 28-year-old George Zimmerman, who authorities say shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last month during a confrontation in a nearby gated community.

Gun control advocates say it is emblematic of permissive gun laws in Florida, which was among the first states to allow residents to carry concealed weapons.​

Florida was the first state to pass a "Stand Your Ground" law, which has been dubbed a "Shoot First" law by gun control advocates. About half of allU.S.​
states have similar laws, said
Brian Malte, legislative director of the Brady Campaign, which describes itself as the nation's largest organization dedicated to the prevention of gun violence.

The Florida shooting happened when Zimmerman spotted Martin as he was patrolling his neighborhood on a rainy evening last month and called police to report a suspicious person. Against the advice of the dispatcher, Zimmerman then followed Martin, who was walking home from a convenience store with a bag of Skittles in his pocket.​

Zimmerman's father has said his son is Hispanic and is not racist. Zimmerman has claimed self-defense.​

"I don't think a man who exited his vehicle after the 911 dispatcher told him to stay inside the car can claim self-defense," Carl McPhail, a 28-year-old​
Barry University law school student, said at the rally in Sanford.

The 70 protesters at the Sanford rally chanted "What if it was your son?" and held posters saying, "This is not a race issue." Many carried Skittles.​

Martin's parents and other advocates have said the shooter would have been arrested had he been black.​

"You would think that Sanford is still in the 1800s claiming that this man can call self-defense for shooting an unarmed boy," said restaurant owner Linda Tillman, who also was at the Sanford rally.​

But prosecutors may not be able to charge Zimmerman because of changes made to state law in 2005. Under the old law, people could use deadly force in self-defense only if they had tried to run away or otherwise avoid the danger. The changes removed that duty to retreat and gave Floridians, as the law is written, the right "to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force," if they felt threatened. The changes also meant people could not be prosecuted in such instances.​


"If there is nobody around and you pull a gun, you just say, 'Hey, I reasonably believed I was under imminent attack. Hey, sorry. Too bad. But you can't prosecute me,'" Hill said.​

Source:USAToday
http://www.usatoday....rtin/53655188/1
Another reason to hate Florida.
 

Hells Malice

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So the kid was minding his own business, was packin' skittles, and this white dude was in his car with a gun.
White guy gets out of car, shoots kid, and gets off on self defense.

God Bless America.

That's called murder, not self defense.
 

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So the kid was minding his own business, was packin' skittles, and this white dude was in his car with a gun.
White guy gets out of car, shoots kid, and gets off on self defense.

God Bless America.

That's called murder, not self defense.
Not according to the NRA or Florida (bought and owned by the NRA).
 

Guild McCommunist

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No, you didn't read the article. Because Zimmerman wasn't arrested.

I read the article but unless Zimmerman was proven to have not shot out of self defense, he's "innocent until proven guilty". To be honest there's not much in the article about how it happened and what exactly happened or even if the crime was racial. A lot of it is just guesswork.

EDIT: I'm certainly not defending anyone here but I know little about what happened and I'm not gonna deem anyone a murderer or a jumpy neighborhood watch leader from the little bit I've seen.
 

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No, you didn't read the article. Because Zimmerman wasn't arrested.

I read the article but unless Zimmerman was proven to have not shot out of self defense, he's "innocent until proven guilty". To be honest there's not much in the article about how it happened and what exactly happened or even if the crime was racial. A lot of it is just guesswork.
It's not guesswork Zimmerman was told not to get out of his car by the police. He disobeyed got out and shot the kid, claimed self defense.
 

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Bringing fists to a gunfight is dumb (not that he knew). Since this young man had been unarmed, use of deadly force is unneeded. If I felt threatened, I would always shoot lower. A leg wound will incapacitate a threat just as well as a bullet in the head.
 

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It's not guesswork Zimmerman was told not to get out of his car by the police. He disobeyed got out and shot the kid, claimed self defense.

In all honesty if I felt threatened and a cop told me to "stay in the car" when I could deal with the threat myself I'd do the latter. Of course the issue of whether this was self defense or not.
 

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It's not guesswork Zimmerman was told not to get out of his car by the police. He disobeyed got out and shot the kid, claimed self defense.

In all honesty if I felt threatened and a cop told me to "stay in the car" when I could deal with the threat myself I'd do the latter. Of course the issue of whether this was self defense or not.
Then you're pretty paranoid. And you should then be arrested.
 

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Bringing fists to a gunfight is dumb (not that he knew). Since this young man had been unarmed, use of deadly force is unneeded. If I felt threatened, I would always shoot lower. A leg wound will incapacitate a threat just as well as a bullet in the head.
This is what you're saying now. Without proper CQC training the natural instincts dictate that you kill your enemy - it is an inner force that is hard to control. To some self-control it comes naturally, others are trigger-happy, quick to pull it when terrified and require field training to become calm and collected in health/life-threatening situations.

Then you're pretty paranoid. And you should then be arrested.
If he did it in self-defense then God bless him for shooting an attacker in the leg.
 

Guild McCommunist

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Then you're pretty paranoid. And you should then be arrested.

Well I'm saying like if I saw a guy beating up another guy or breaking into a house or something. Of course if some dude was just taking a stroll I wouldn't run out with my gun shouting "YIPPEE KAY YAY MOTHERFUCKER", but if it was like a mugging or other violent crime, I'd definitely intervene if I had the resources to do so.

Also, arresting someone purely for paranoia (note: not any actual act like a shooting or assault) is pretty authoritarian right there.


This is what you're saying now. Without proper CQC training the natural instincts dictate that you kill your enemy - it is an inner force that is hard to control. To some it comes naturally, others are trigger-happy, quick to pull it when terrified.

If Metal Gear Solid 3 has taught us anything, proper CQC involves hiding in tall grass and jumping them before they call their guards on the radio.
 

Hyro-Sama

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Guild & Foxi4 are unlearned on the topic of Racism. Any White on Black crime is a hate crime. The vice versa isn't. Theft, murder, etc. It's a hate crime. You cannot argue against it. Unless you're racist at heart.
 

Guild McCommunist

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Guild & Foxi4 are unlearned on the topic of Racism. Any White on Black crime is a hate crime. The vice versa isn't. Theft, murder, etc. It's a hate crime. You cannot argue against it. Unless you're racist at heart.

So if I shoot a black guy because he's attacking me it's a "hate crime" but if I shoot a white guy whose attacking me then it's just self defense?

Pretty sure there was a whole episode on South Park about hate crimes but I can't really recall it.
 

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Then you're pretty paranoid. And you should then be arrested.

Well I'm saying like if I saw a guy beating up another guy or breaking into a house or something. Of course if some dude was just taking a stroll I wouldn't run out with my gun shouting "YIPPEE KAY YAY MOTHERFUCKER", but if it was like a mugging or other violent crime, I'd definitely intervene if I had the resources to do so.

Also, arresting someone purely for paranoia (note: not any actual act like a shooting or assault) is pretty authoritarian right there.


This is what you're saying now. Without proper CQC training the natural instincts dictate that you kill your enemy - it is an inner force that is hard to control. To some it comes naturally, others are trigger-happy, quick to pull it when terrified.

If Metal Gear Solid 3 has taught us anything, proper CQC involves hiding in tall grass and jumping them before they call their guards on the radio.
In this case, don't create your own scenario. It's not being arrested for being paranoid, it's being arrested for murder when you've already killed someone such as in this case.
 

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In this case, don't create your own scenario. It's not paranoid when you've already killed someone such as in this case.

Well if this Zimmerman guy just shot him for "looking suspicious" then he deserves a needle in the arm.

I think this whole "self defense" law in theory sounds great but in practice seems a subject of abuse.
 

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In this case, don't create your own scenario. It's not paranoid when you've already killed someone such as in this case.

Well if this Zimmerman guy just shot him for "looking suspicious" then he deserves a needle in the arm.

I think this whole "self defense" law in theory sounds great but in practice seems a subject of abuse.
It is, no, it's a bad idea because the NRA supports. In the past they have supported keeping legal cop killer bullets and plastic guns.
 

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In this case, don't create your own scenario. It's not paranoid when you've already killed someone such as in this case.

Well if this Zimmerman guy just shot him for "looking suspicious" then he deserves a needle in the arm.

I think this whole "self defense" law in theory sounds great but in practice seems a subject of abuse.
We have a pretty good fix for that - before you are allowed to "kill in self-defense" with a firearm, you're supposed to shoot two times in the air while backing away, only then you are allowed to aim at the attacker unless the situation is dire enough to validate aiming on the spot, such as "being shot at" etc. Ballistic experts can easily determine how many times the gun was shot and which bullets came first, thus it's easier to determine whether the situation validated the use of lethal force and whether the defender did everything he could to scare the attacker away.

That, and extremely taxing training, both psychological and physical before you even get a permission to own a firearm. It's quite a rarity when someone gets one of those.
 

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Guild & Foxi4 are unlearned on the topic of Racism. Any White on Black crime is a hate crime. The vice versa isn't. Theft, murder, etc. It's a hate crime. You cannot argue against it. Unless you're racist at heart.

So if I shoot a black guy because he's attacking me it's a "hate crime" but if I shoot a white guy whose attacking me then it's just self defense?

Pretty sure there was a whole episode on South Park about hate crimes but I can't really recall it.

See you're just not getting it. If you shoot a white guy then it could self defense or just plain ol' murder. You shoot a black guy period it's a hate crime. South park is an unreliable soure b/c your learning about racism from white racists. Try Key & Peele.
 

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