Question How is Nintendo 64, Gamecube and PS2 emulation coming along?

Discussion in 'Switch - Emulation, Homebrew & Software Projects' started by alexg1989, May 31, 2018.

  1. Bladexdsl

    Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

    Member
    15
    Nov 17, 2008
    Australia
    Queensland
    ps2 emulation on switch surely you jest?! it barely runs properly on high end pcs! :lol:
     
    NoNAND likes this.
  2. Keylogger

    Keylogger GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    7
    May 3, 2006
    France
    wait for a correct n64 emu first :P
     
    Silent_Gunner likes this.
  3. Beware

    Beware GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    3
    Apr 5, 2007
    United States
    The fact that it is UNPLAYABLE. Pikmin 1 is the only game with playable frame rates. I've already used some basic math to prove, unequivocally, that GCN emulation as it stands is a fantasy. GCN emulation on the Nvidia Shield TV is barely playable. Lakka could get better with 64-bit dynarec, but GCN is still a long ways off.

    GCN and PS2 are not realistic expectations, especially in Horizon.

    And to reiterate, Lakka NO LONGER supports Dolphin
     
    Last edited by Beware, Nov 9, 2018
    NoNAND and TheMrIron2 like this.
  4. nastys

    nastys ナースティス

    Member
    8
    Aug 5, 2014
    Italy
    Earth
    Hit&Run looks playable to me, and it wasn't even running in docked mode.
     
  5. Beware

    Beware GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    3
    Apr 5, 2007
    United States
    We have DRASTICALLY different reference points for what defines "playable." Beyond that, Dolphin is no longer supported by Lakka, so it couldn't matter less. Mr. Homebrew has a bit of a habit of painting the state of these emulators in a better light than is realistic. That video shows H&R running POORLY. If you enabled audio you would have a terrible time.

    And again, Dolphin is NOT supported by Lakka. It was abandoned in favor of ReiCast and better performance in literally every other core.
     
    NoNAND likes this.
  6. LuigiGold

    LuigiGold Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    2
    Feb 9, 2016
    Spain
    In GCN/Wii, everything under 30fps is pretty much unplayable. And games like Paper Mario worked at barely 13fps in-game with normal clocks. It will never be playable even with Vulkan and better drivers (currently we have Nouveau and OpenGL). As we could see in the Shield TV, even with official nvidia drivers it was barely "playable" at full clocks. And that extra RAM the Switch has won't do so much. I wouldn't get my hopes up.

    Greetings.
     
    Last edited by LuigiGold, Nov 9, 2018
  7. nastys

    nastys ナースティス

    Member
    8
    Aug 5, 2014
    Italy
    Earth
    I've been playing the GameCube version of Tomb Raider - Legend using the Ishiiruka core in Lakka (by the way, aarch64 builds are still being made just for Dolphin/Ishiiruka) and I think it's playable despite the low framerate. I mean, it's low but it did not prevent me from playing the game. Also there was no "slowmo" effect, since I reduced the internal CPU clock to 20% and the game's internal frameskip was triggered. Unfortunately it froze before I could complete the first level... but the performance wasn't that bad (in my opinion anyway).

    (I ran it in portable mode without overclocking the CPU nor the GPU)
     
    Last edited by nastys, Nov 9, 2018
  8. Silent_Gunner

    Silent_Gunner GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    Feb 16, 2017
    United States
    But is it practical to even put the effort of developing an emulator for it?



    Here's the problems:

    1. Do I have a BT speaker with quality worth listening to without dying on the inside and that I feel like taking around with me? Nope.
    2. Do I have a need for BT speakers when the speaker on the Switch is adequate and convenient to adjust, not to mention whether it is a good replacement for a 2.1 soundbar when using it in TV mode? Unless if you were given a small loan of a million $$$?

    The only reason I'd go to BT speakers is if they had good sound quality on top of lasting long enough that I can put away my USB cables for a day or two. Seeing as how solar power, as much as I love to dream about its applications in the future if/once it becomes practical, isn't ready for prime time, better get used to using power banks or just busting out those cables and trying to find the time to keep them organized while realizing how little time for games you have after doing all that cleaning up.

    I'm somewhat confused here. Do you mean to say that development will only continue on 32-bit, and that all hope for 64-bit support on Lakka is lost? Or that 32-bit is the focus, and that 64-bit support has a chance to come back later? I know natinusala (I apologize if I didn't spell that correctly) said something about it in his thread, but I don't remember the details.

    Either way, I'm glad they're sticking to what's definitely a possibility as opposed to theories like, "well, if the Tegra X1 was cooled with liquid nitrogen, given an overclock to reach the levels of the Shield, other parts on the Switch be damned, then we could run PCSX2 and Dolphin at playable framerates." There's people who do experiments like that, and if that's what they're passionate about, more power to 'em. But for people who aren't Lex Luthor, we'd rather have something within the realm of practicality than possibility.
     
  9. nastys

    nastys ナースティス

    Member
    8
    Aug 5, 2014
    Italy
    Earth
    You can use a Bluetooth receiver and any headphones or speakers. This is just a temporary solution, of course. Built-in audio will probably be implemented sooner or later.

    Both versions are still being built, just for Dolphin basically (since it does not support 32-bit):
    https://lakka-switch.github.io/documentation/archives.html
    64-bit builds are not "stable" releases.
     
    Last edited by nastys, Nov 9, 2018
  10. coppertj

    coppertj GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    May 26, 2017
    United States
    Technically, theres a divide now with Lakka because it's confirmed now that some people cannot boot lakka (black screen) with no solution to fix it. That's why people are asking can they start porting the cores to Horizon, even if it's slow at first.
     
  11. Silent_Gunner

    Silent_Gunner GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    Feb 16, 2017
    United States
    Really!? Why is this happening!? Has there been any fix of any kind!?
     
  12. coppertj

    coppertj GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    May 26, 2017
    United States
    Nope no fix, I still can't boot it even after the hekate update. My switch just isn't compatible even though it's a hac-001... And apparently i'm not alone according the the lakka FAQ

    if anyone does know, please let me know. I've tried just about everything, sd cards, cables, computers. It's only booted about 2 times and I'd have to restart anyway to turn wifi on or just upload games and then bam, wouldn't boot again. Shame man I've been waiting since the original nvidia shield for a emulator like lakka. It's upsetting/heartbreaking a little because I know that I won't be able to get another switch/there isn't going to be a fix for this apparently from the consensus so far since no one has an answer. I suppose a off topic answer would be to just work with libnx to really go hard porting over emulators like gamecube and n64 (it's getting faster by the day, overclocking right now to 20fps and soon dynarec will be ported the bountys at like 2050 dollars now??? it's coming soon)
     
    Last edited by coppertj, Nov 11, 2018
  13. Beware

    Beware GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    3
    Apr 5, 2007
    United States
    There have always been issues booting Lakka for a very small number of people. It seems to do with SD cards and how uboot interacts with some of them. Fixes are being worked on, but no ETAs.


    Again though, GCN is NOT happening. Not in Lakka and certainly not in Horizon.
     
  14. nastys

    nastys ナースティス

    Member
    8
    Aug 5, 2014
    Italy
    Earth
    Lakka 64-bit hasn't been completely abandoned yet:
    https://lakka-switch.github.io/documentation/archives.html
    So there are both 32-bit and 64-bit right now, and they're both up-to-date.
    I've tried Ishiiruka on Lakka myself and the performance is acceptable, though there's no sound (even if you use BT or AirPlay it's probably going to reduce performance too much) and it crashes sometimes, so I wouldn't recommend it.

    The only reason why Lakka now offers 32-bit builds is better performance, while 64-bit builds are for Dolphin.
    Also, according to the FAQ, GameCube and Wii are still supported.

    Why do you keep saying it's been abandoned? Do you have any evidence?
     
    Last edited by nastys, Nov 11, 2018
  15. PiracyForTheMasses

    PiracyForTheMasses GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    Sep 25, 2018
    United States
    Sounds like a complete noob answer to me. Nintendo has already proven that the shield tv is more than capable of emulating gamecube and wii. The switch is more than capable of emulating gamecube, wii and ps2. Nintendo will most likely be bringing the emulator used on the shield to the switch. Dolphin developers are the developers that made the official emulator running on the shield. I could sit here all day and prove your opinions wrong over and over again all day long, but I've already proven you have no knowledge in this area.
     
    nastys likes this.
  16. LuigiGold

    LuigiGold Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    2
    Feb 9, 2016
    Spain
    Even with a JIT ARM64 it just runs poorly (13-14 fps on Paper Mario TTYD, and no BBox). Maybe with full RAM, Vulkan and nvidia drivers we could see a significative improvement but trust me Dolphin for ARM is shit.

    Maybe we could reach full speed in Citra with a JIT, but GCN at full speed is for now a dream. And PS2 is unlikely.

    Greeting
     
  17. Beware

    Beware GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    3
    Apr 5, 2007
    United States

    Have any of you actually used Dolphin on a Shield TV? You wanna talk being a noob, yet you don't even understand what it takes to run Dolphin adequately. Dolphin, even Ishiiruka, runs barely adequate on the Shield TV. The Shield TV has the same hardware clocked nearly TWICE as fast as the Switch and still can't run most games adequately. You are chasing something that is outside the realm of physical possibility. Here's the straight up data that proves you wrong:

    Switch Docked | Switch Non-Docked | Shield ATV or Lakka (OC)
    CPU: 1020 MHz | 1020 MHz | 2 GHz
    GPU: 768 MHz | 307.2 MHz | 1 GHz
    MEM: 1600 MHz | 1331 MHz | 1600 MHz

    How the hell are we going to get something full speed that doesn't run on hardware nearly 100% faster? Incredible that you can call someone a noob when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. Wishing and believing really hard does not alter the laws of physics.

    Take your attitude and your straight-up fabricated "facts" elsewhere, you're out of your league.
     
  18. nastys

    nastys ナースティス

    Member
    8
    Aug 5, 2014
    Italy
    Earth
    Hacks and optimizations, just like they did with Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on the GameCube, which were modified version of the N64 ROMs running using a custom emulator, though it wasn't very stable and it didn't always run at full speed.
     
  19. Beware

    Beware GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    3
    Apr 5, 2007
    United States
    "Hacks and optimizations" are fundamentally counter to Dolphin's goals. They have moved almost entirely away from individual hacks and opt and have written many blog posts about exactly that.

    PS: 64-bit Lakka is still being built, but not actively developed until the 64-bit dynarec bounty is claimed. Even then, Dolphin won't be terrifically playable and is a fantasy in Horizon.
     
    Silent_Gunner likes this.
  20. nastys

    nastys ナースティス

    Member
    8
    Aug 5, 2014
    Italy
    Earth
    I was talking about a possible GCN Virtual Console using Nintendo and NVIDIA's emulator. Even Sony use specifics hacks and emulator settings for their PS2 Classics on PS3 so I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo started selling some of their GCN games on the Switch eShop. As for Dolphin, you can use hacks (I'm not talking about "game-specific" hacks). In fact, the graphics backend has a lot of hacks you can turn on if you need more performance, and you can downclock the CPU and/or use AR/Gecko codes.
     
    Last edited by nastys, Nov 12, 2018
Loading...