Hello everyone and welcome to a new GBAtemp Series by yours truly, the GBATEMP FIGHT CLUB!
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Here's how Fight Club throws down tempers and temptresses. I'm going to take either two franchises, 2 characters, 2 specific games, or 2 of SOMETHING gaming related, and I'm going to pit them against each other for your enjoyment. But how do we declare a victor you may ask? That's where you come in!

The way this will work is I will give a brief synopsis of the two rivaling entities, and leave it up to all of you to vote and debate which one is the better being, and why that is. A combination of the poll votes, and the arguments made in this thread, will determine the victor! I will take poll votes into account for the most part, but the supporting arguments will also heavily decide who the victor will truly be.

This will be an attempted weekly act every Monday, where a victor will be chosen and a new round will begin, so you will have one week to argue and determine who or what the better of the two is. So without further ado, let's get to our competitors this week:

SUPER MARIO 64 VS. BANJO KAZOOIE

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Two of the most iconic collectathon adventure games of all time on the Nintendo 64. If you haven't played the one, you probably played the other, or even played both as a kid, but both are the most beloved of their genre.

Super Mario 64 pioneered the 3D adventure genre with superb gameplay, an enormous ammount of content, a memorable world with unforgettable environments, and the establishment of gaming mechanics utilized to this day.

We can thank Super Mario 64 for the use of 360 degree analog control, dynamic cameras, and a sense of real gaming freedom we hadn't experienced before. We can also thank it for giving us an unforgettable gaming experience that is regarded as the greatest adventure game of all time.

So what of the competition?

Banjo Kazooie took what made Super Mario 64 a juggernaut, and expanded upon it. It took colorful and expansive environments, and enhanced and improved them. It took level design and exploration and broadened its horizons even farther. Boasting wonderful textures, solid frame-rate, and fantastic sound design, critics then referred to it as the biggest competitor and successor to SM64.

With these sentiments in mind, let's begin the arguments! Which one deserves to be called the better of the two? Can you make a solid case for why one is better than the other? It's all up to you!

If you have a suggestion for what the next fight should be, leave a post on my profile page!

 

[Maximilious]

I loved both of these games growing up. Banjo was definitely "better" than SM64 in terms of character skill-set, polish, level design, etc., but thinking back, I played SM64 more. Between SM64 and OoT, I mastered both of them until I could beat them 100% in just a few hours. Banjo I think I beat 100%, but it was also more challenging as a kid so I didn't play it anymore once I beat it.

I think Mario wins this one for me.

 

[driverdis]

I beat Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie multiple times where as SM64, I beat once.

 

[FAST6191]

Yeah the sound track discussion got me curious so I decided to spend a morning listening to games soundtracks, something I rarely do and by and large I do not have game songs in any kind of rotation or in my personal collection.

Mario 64.
Turns out that despite my last proper playthrough (I am not counting my spell with the DS game and the closest I have come to a let's play or something is watching a glitch speedrun) being over a decade ago I can still remember them.
+1 to the imaginary points that I am not giving for introducing me to the concept of the Shepard Tone though.

Banjo Kazooie and Tooie.
First I never realised the guy went on to do the Kingdoms of Amalur sound track (playing as I type this).
To my seriously untrained ear a lot of these would appear to be similar to various folk songs/popular songs, nowhere near the same level as Doom ( http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music ) and definitely well into remix/could almost be confused for just using same time and rhyme scheme. They are perhaps not quite as catchy as Mario 64 but if I have to listen to something several times over as I play a level then this would have to be it.
On instruments it does seem like someone left their keyboard set to calypso and/or trumpet for a few too many of those songs, especially as most of those songs play during the first bunch of levels one after the other. The other, more non traditional, samples I can not say were used to anything other than spectacular effect though.

Mario Sunshine.
Some killer, probably about 90% filler though, especially if remixed/homages to the underground theme of NES Mario is not your thing. I never realised that before now and now I am going to have to wonder if it contributed to the dislike of Sunshine that some exhibit. Unlike Mario 64 it was only a few themes that I still remembered and I played Sunshine. The high notes (hah, or not as some of those were a bit clipped on the one I heard) of Sunshine did better than 64 for me though.


Then I listened to some 16 bit Sonic music. Still liked it more. Various Streets of Rage songs came on after that... what were we talking about?

 

[kehkou]

Thats a pretty one-sided fight. It's like pitting the Rock against Betty White.

Having said, BK and BT were fun as hell, and was Rare, the greatest developers ever to exist, back when that meant something. But i dont think it has anything on Mario. Mario 64 vs Goldeneye, now that's a different story. Both set the standard in their respective genera.

 

[mightymuffy]

Despite them both being two of the greatest 3D platformers ever made, this one isn't even close for me: Super Mario 64 wins it hands down... much more freedom: in Banjo everything you need to complete a world is force-fed to you right there, and technically you only need to enter once (and play for one hell of a long sesh) and you're done, barring more collect-a-thon stuff, Mario 64 on the other hand let's you go back to the level after hitting certain switch palaces and lets you play the same thing in an entirely different way: metal mario underwater, wings on the levels.... Let's not even get into the brilliance that is Tiny-Huge World... And I'm just scraping the surface!
Banjo = Great game
but,
Mario 64 = Legendary!

 

[BadJuju]

What is this blasphemy? 49 - 37

 

[RustInPeace]

I'll have to go with Banjo & Kazooie, because I never played Super Mario 64. B&K was the first long game I played. Other games I played at the time were Pokemon Stadium, Mario Kart, games with short term goals and such, no long adventures. Banjo & Kazooie stood tall in that regard, and as a kid the images were so amazing. Even as an adult, the graphics still look so great. Every time I realize that Banjo & Kazooie is no longer a Nintendo product, Rare being bought by Microsoft, I just feel bad. It's on Rare Replay, right? That collection is the sole reason I want an Xbox One, but I only wish that B&K made it to Wii U. Rare was Nintendo's biggest publisher, or at least produced some awesome games. It just makes me incredulous that Microsoft owns Rare now. And Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. God, more advanced graphics, but it just looks awful to me, that's not the Banjo and Kazooie I adored. I never played it, I don't want to.

If I played Super Mario 64, I bet I'll love it, maybe more than Banjo & Kazooie, but for now, I'm going with the game I know. Unfortunately, I don't remember when, where I finished the game, it's been such a long time. If I even did, if so, probably via emulation. Yeah, good times on the N64.

 

[Steena]

While banjo depends on the novelty of the collectibles more, and may provide a superior first playthrough, SM64's momentum based character control remains the absolute deepest to this day, as far as 3d goes. It holds some of the best speedruns and new tricks come about all the time, because much is left to player control and speed building. If you try playing B&K several times or try to speedrun it, you'll soon realize the game gets very boring and is extremely limiting. The "expiration date" on the gameplay comes up much sooner.

It also required greater effort to come up with SM64 than it did B&K due to the different timeframe of development since the former pretty much invented the genre, and I like to give credit for those accomplishments, as it makes the pricetag more or less justified. And regardless of B&K being a "more polished derivative experience" overall, it still has a very dumbed down level of control compared to the game it got inspired from. To me personally that's the most important aspect of a platformer, to the point where I can ignore almost anything else. I like to control that pace and master the engine.

So I'll go with SM64. Love both though.

 

[HaloEffect17]

Mario 64... coz... Mario?

Really though, Mario for me because he's an icon, recognizable generations over. And the huge transition from 2D to 3D is so astonishing and genre-defining that it deserves the win.. Every other games of this genre are mostly adapting and modifying the mechanics.

Yeah, I can't believe no one mentioned this point until now. The transition from 2D Mario to 3D Mario. It's akin to how ground-breaking Metroid Prime was as a successor to Super Metroid.

 

[Rob Blou]

SM64 hands down for me .. it was my 1st 3d platformer and it was mindblowing. Banjo was pretty good but there's nothing like your 1st love

 

[TecXero]

I decided to fire both of them up again, just to give myself a bit of a refresher. I stand by my decision. Super Mario 64, while looking like crap, still feels tight. While Banjo-Kazooie feels clunky and slow. Rare games have always been a bit clunky to me. Even though I loved Battletoads, I wouldn't say it holds up well.

Maybe Banjo is better in other areas, but gameplay is always the most important to me.

 

[VashTS]

super mario 64 but only by a small margin.

banjo was amazing - so much so that i rented it and HAD to buy it when i was a kid with my birthday money. super mario 64 is really just amazing though and i can play through that any time and have fun. banjo on the other hand is a bit more arduous. it feels cumbersome to play it. i can't play banjo without some assistance from a guide.

 

[Sakitoshi]

Banjo-Kazooie is the best N64 game in existance, enough said.
The second best is Banjo-Tooie.

 

[FAST6191]

I keep seeing words like pioneering and like many times I will have to look to the PC, granted it was 1997 before 3dfx released the voodoo glide and it was over for the consoles as the true driving force here (the interests of polite discussion force me to skim the over S3 ViRGE). Also this is not to say SM64 did not justifiably have a huge impact; earlier I linked the 1995 gamesmaster, somewhat younger me was late for dinner that night for "good" reason.

However I can not ignore 1994's Little Big Adventure


Sure it was still isometric rather than third person but even though there was plenty of isometric before then I still can not help but recognise a few things. Whether it influenced Nintendo I do not know (it made it to the PC-98), LBA might not be much remembered outside of a few today (which is a pity as it a great little game that holds up pretty well, perhaps not as well as something like Oddworld but well enough and has definitely aged better than the N64 offerings that have not been remade/ported out).

 

[tbb043]

Groundbreaking game that didn't have all the kinks worked out vs overrated Rare collectathon...

I'm going with the chubby Italian.

 

[grossaffe]

I keep seeing words like pioneering and like many times I will have to look to the PC, granted it was 1997 before 3dfx released the voodoo glide and it was over for the consoles as the true driving force here (the interests of polite discussion force me to skim the over S3 ViRGE). Also this is not to say SM64 did not justifiably have a huge impact; earlier I linked the 1995 gamesmaster, somewhat younger me was late for dinner that night for "good" reason.

However I can not ignore 1994's Little Big Adventure


Sure it was still isometric rather than third person but even though there was plenty of isometric before then I still can not help but recognise a few things. Whether it influenced Nintendo I do not know (it made it to the PC-98), LBA might not be much remembered outside of a few today (which is a pity as it a great little game that holds up pretty well, perhaps not as well as something like Oddworld but well enough and has definitely aged better than the N64 offerings that have not been remade/ported out).

That game looks to have absolutely nothing in common with the games being compared here.

 

[FAST6191]

The first level was probably not the best example to link up, and in some ways I might be more remembering the sequel, and the jumping puzzles often end up closer to traditional isometric style stop, turn, virtual box climbing/might as well be qbert than not, and there is a lack of specialist wall jump type things (not that such things are an amazing leap as it was done so much in 2d). However people speak of momentum based controls, platforming and such in a 3d space and I flash back to that quite easily.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Banjo Kazooie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shitty Mario ;O;

Super Mario 64 was an ok step into the 3D platformer world, but Banjo Kazooie took everything that made Mario 64 ok, and did it infinitely better. As a whole, it's simply the better game when you take the actual gameplay and story and how it feels into account. The only thing Super Mario 64 did better...was being a Mario game. I can't think of too many 3D platformers on the N64 better than Banjo Kazooie, besides maybe Conker's Bad Fur Day or Banjo Tooie.

 

[gokuguy]

I love how Mario 64 is winning in the voting because in Nintendo World, Mario = John Cena.

I absolutely love Mario 64 despite its bad cameras and various other issues, but Banjo was just a better game overall. I like Mario 64 more than Banjo Kazooie, but Banjo Kazooie is a much better built game.

 

[Deleted User]

I prefer Banjo Kazooie. Mario 64 was the first N64 game I ever played and I had no idea what to do. I spent hours wandering around the castle grounds clueless. At that time I couldn't read so the manual was no good.

Because of that I've always attached a mysterious sense of awkwardness to Mario 64. Its still a great game, but I never quite got over that strange and slightly uncomfortable feeling.

By the time I played Banjo Kazooie I had a few years of gaming experience behind me so I knew what I was doing. Oh, and I had also learned how to read.

Judging the games in terms of their design rather than my personal experience Banjo Kazooie wins again. Funny dialogue, more interesting level designs and better graphics and audio. It took everything that Mario 64 did right and built on it.