A law firm has begun an investigation for a class action lawsuit on Nintendo over Joy-Con drift

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by Chary, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I'm not sure about that, they seem pretty custom. I'd have to look into it, but that particular assembly looks made to order, and then relentlessly copied. I'd have to check if they patented it to be sure.
     
  2. guily6669

    guily6669 GbaTemp is my Drug

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    The Daemon X Machine Joy-Con controllers at least will probably be beyond expensive...
    Source from here: https://www.vg247.com/2019/06/14/hori-releasing-chunky-daemon-x-machina-tie-joy-cons/

    At that price, no thank you :(...

    The Ipega are like around 20€ on ebay...
     
  3. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

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    I've never heard of that, but it makes sense that they would wear out eventually, though I've not experienced anything but N64 controllers wearing out.
    Maybe the N64 controllers weren't so bad after all. They wore out quickly, but at least the movement of the parts inside were directly tied to the movement of the axes, so you would never have phantom input.

    Come to think of it, that explanation doesn't explain why the stick positions drift, as in, they move over time but reset to the middle once you move the stick. I still don't quite understand why that occurs.
    Actually, most analog sticks used on consoles are custom designed. They all have their own feel, which is unique to that console, and have to be made for certain dimensions to fit within handhelds and similar. Sure, you can get 3rd party ones with a similar feel, but those are clones.
     
    Last edited by The Real Jdbye, Jul 19, 2019
  4. shadow1w2

    shadow1w2 Still here.

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    This is part of why Ive been holding out for a switch pro but I am considering the next revision but sadly those might be these bad joycpns. Class action lawsuit or no Id still rather get a regular switch wothout the joycons (or dock) to save money.

    Though I wonder if this lawsuit will win.
    Nintendo never promised the controllers to last beyond the warrenty or even work at all.
    You know the usual excuses.
    Though I hope the message gets to Ninty at least in time for the revised switch and new color joycons to get better stick parts.
     
  5. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I think you don't hear about it as much on the Xbox One because, in my experience, Microsoft has an excellent returns policy for controllers, at least in the UK. Googling "Xbox One Drift" gives you ample results, that tells me that Microsoft's controllers aren't holy cows, which I already knew anyway from taking them apart. There's a much bigger problem with Xbox One controllers, one that affects most of the faulty ones I've seen, and that's the headphone jack on the new models - it's not soldered to the board, it's a pressure fit sandwiched between two PCB's. Even a mild amount of pressure can dislodge it completely, ruin the pins and make you lose connection, usually permanently until you replace it altogether. I fixed one of them in the past and, try as I may, I couldn't get any contact at all, no matter how I shaped the pins, so in the end I just ripped off the carbon contacts and soldered it directly to the board - fixed instantly. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen because the jack is clearly engineered to fail, it experiences stress each time you take your headset in and out, it should be far more robust.

    As to why the sticks center after you move them, it's probably the spring preload moving the wiper to a new spot on the trace that doesn't have a gap in it, or just sudden movement pressing the oxidised wiper harder, causing it to briefly register a new reading. Some people try to clean both with contact cleaner and hope for the best, but the success rate of that is low - it's far less hassle to just install a new stick. Ultimately the way these things work is by utilising the resistance between Point A and Point B - electrons always follow the path of least resistance. If you have gaps in the trace, oxidised or bent contacts or simply dirt in the potentiometer, that path changes, leading to a change in resistance, which in turn gives you an erroneous reading.

    Regarding the "custom" nature of the sticks, nah, most of them are bog standard parts. There's nothing special about them, the manufacturer just picks them based on their properties, like the spring tension, or just the availability. They're not particularly unique, see below:
    xbox-one-elite-controller-1698-analog-pcb-board.
    Xbox One Elite board
    DualShock_4_assembly.
    DualShock 4 board
    joystick_2_l.
    Switch Pro Controller board

    It's the same sticks, probably from the same factory, they probably sit side by side on the conveyor belt. Occasionally they change the colours on the assembly, I can only assume that the factories colour-code them for some reason, but the side pots are basically the same. In fact, they're interchangeable. They wouldn't go through the trouble of redesigning a part that's already on the market unless they wanted to add features to it - that's expensive! :P
     
  6. SlasherGamer21

    SlasherGamer21 Advanced Member

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    That's just an opinion. I have never...not even once had a problem with my joycons.
     
  7. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    inside your crappy old PC
    just signed up for the class action
     
  8. Badgerx

    Badgerx Member

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    I was born with a NES at home, raised with a GB. Since the Wii, I haven't been as invested in Nintendo. During the Wii U, I have said many times that Nintendo was dying. Said it a lot. However, even though there are almost no console exclusive good games for me on it and having been strongly against even getting the console, sales and my experience say it's not bad. I guessed it would be a lot worse.

    For a portable machine, an advanced tablet, it's overall reliable. Like always, it can take some abuse.
    Batteries are good, controllers do take some getting used to and still confuse me every time I think of how anyone would play with just one of them but they're okay too as long is it's within a meters range of the console.

    The only problem I have is 1 of the joy cons sometimes sliding off, probably because it wasn't done as it should by someone. After a year, joystick is still doing good.

    So, the problems I do have with Nintendo are more their choices regarding games. Like, why the fuck add cloud, isabella or bayonetta to smash in stead of Mega Man X or Zero, Majora, maskable young Link or since they don't care about size Hollow Knight? Why add "voice acting" to a zelda game and pick such emotionless, dull, horrible voices? Why ruin a good formula, that has been working for well over 25 years? Why bring out a switch lite, just like with GBA and DS?

    Anyway, yes. The controllers do feel cheap. And they cost a lot. Just like every other controller on the market right now. But I don't have a problem so far. Haven't heard anyone who does either. Nintendo will probably respond, next year. And lets be honest, Nintendo controllers and good aiming? Those never really went together that well without auto lock.
     
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  9. AkitoTheHedgy

    AkitoTheHedgy Advanced Member

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    Even though I hate Joy-Con Drifting, it shouldn't be taken THIS FAR.
     
  10. Idontknowwhattoputhere

    Idontknowwhattoputhere It just works

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    My joycons and pro controller just randomly input buttons on the home menu
    I would join the lawsuit but i'm in the uk so i cant :(
     
  11. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    If they start going after people for poor mechanical design of things like that then the electronics industry will probably implode... I have lost track of how many times poorly thought out laptop charger ports, USB ports, headphone jacks and more have caused problems in things. Ask any mechanically inclined person if they think a bit of lead free solder onto a thin layer of copper which in turn is bonded with epoxy to fibreglass weave, and then subjecting that to maybe 5:1 in your disadvantage lever loads.
    On the other hand you reminded me earlier of the glory that is microswitches so I don't think we are talking right now.

    That said I am curious now if I could make a retrofit kit for this to use a more robust positional sensor instead. Hopefully it is a voltage out rather than resistance or relative resistance measured as programmable selectable loads are not fun to play with.

    On a different note for E3 one year before the shows (think it was the same year they got all excited about "asymmetric gaming" that never came) Microsoft had a little filler piece on the testing their controllers go through during R&D and such. I have never been able to find it since but the machines they had and the lengths they went to were quite impressive.
    I should also say on 360 dpads if you (you being the reader of this comment) ever get a chance to test the rotatable dpad that came out later in the 360 lifetime then do so.

    Edit
    So company makes a defective product, one with considerable numbers of failures, making its product unworkable upon failure and drags its feet about fixing it, denying it is an issue on their end and so forth. That is pretty much the exact scenario class action suits are designed for.
     
    Last edited by FAST6191, Jul 19, 2019
  12. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    inside your crappy old PC
    sure it is cause thats how big corporations work, you don't give a shit about the consumer until your sued just like your employees thats what it took for sony on the removal of other OS on the PS3
     
    Last edited by chrisrlink, Jul 19, 2019
  13. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Not sure how it's designed on the Switch, but if other consoles are anything to go by, it's probably the voltage - I imagine it's easier to measure with a microcontroller. As for the mechanical design of the XBO jack, fair point, but I generally like my components to be affixed to the board as opposed to floating between two boards on hopes, dreams and fairy dust. Not a spot of solder on the connector, they're relying entirely on the tension of the fasteners and a plastic pin to keep it in place. It's... bad. :P
     
  14. comput3rus3r

    comput3rus3r GBAtemp Psycho!

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    I tried to fill out the form but it gives an error.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    server error.
    getting this error when filling it out...

    Have tried multiple times. Has anybody actually filled it out?
     
    Last edited by comput3rus3r, Jul 19, 2019
  15. Adran_Marit

    Adran_Marit Walküre's Hacker

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    My issue with the joycon isn't the sticks but rather half the inputs not working on the left joycon in SP mode (read SL and SR buttons)
     
  16. HarvHouHacker

    HarvHouHacker GBAtemp's "Official" Wii Rock Band Hacker

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    Right here on good ol' planet Earth!
    What?!? It's not fixed yet? I was under the impression that it was. Seems like somebody's just blowing a lot of hot air over nothing then.
     
  17. SuzieJoeBob

    SuzieJoeBob NOT a New Member

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    The other issue is that Nintendo used super cheap and malleable metal for the wipers that LOVES to break off and leave deposits on the resistive PCB pads. The analog drift is almost always caused by the wipers deforming or leaving deposits. Anyone who has taken one apart can tell you that it is a wonder that these things even work.

    Here is what the inside looks like (link to an Instructable):

    https://www.instructables.com/id/Nintendo-Joycon-Drift-Fix-Not-Software-Related/
     
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  18. DarkCoffe64

    DarkCoffe64 Bo

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    Haven't played much with the switch, since it was a friend's, but the sticks did feel really flimsy when playing various games.
     
  19. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Even if it was fixed in new batches their actions with regards to what are happily dubbed items not fit for purpose still allow for a lawsuit to be considered.
     
  20. comput3rus3r

    comput3rus3r GBAtemp Psycho!

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    let me know if anybody actually files since I haven't been able to.
     
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