Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[retKHAAAN]

Definition of PUNISH



transitive verb

1
a : to impose a penalty on for a fault, offense, or violation
b : to inflict a penalty for the commission of (an offense) in retribution or retaliation


No one has been "punished" here, despite all the butthertedness claiming otherwise. Claiming that tueidj has somehow wronged anyone or prevented anyone from doing anything is like complaining that there's no sugar in Diet Pepsi... If you want sugar, drink regular Pepsi.

Oh, stop drama queening. No one said that tueidj is wronging anyone. The thing being discussed and criticized is the AP, not tueidj.

And people with scratched discs would be able to play their games using Devolution if the AP didn't exist. Ergo, the AP IS punishing people and IS preventing them from doing something..

1. Devolution is not preventing users from doing anything that they were able to do prior to it's release. It is not for everyone, nor was it ever advertised as such.
2. This entire thread has been a criticism of tueidj from its inception, starting with blatant namecalling nastiness early on, and continuing with bullshit talk of fallacies and straw men once a couple of people who are simply arguing for the sake of arguing jumped on board. Claiming that no one (don't know how you can state that you're speaking for everyone) says tueidj is wronging anyone and then pressing on with the argument that the AP he built into his program is "punishing" people seems a bit like...well...maybe you're just confused...
3. Analogies are only effective if they bear equal importance to that which they are describing. Children exaggerate, and I'm pretty sure comparing a dev releasing an application to someone threatening you at gunpoint...is an exaggeration.

 

[wiismodrome]

DMCA 17 USC § 1201 - Circumvention of copyright protection systems:

http://www.law.corne...de/text/17/1201

(a)Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures.—
(1)

(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter.

snip

(A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

Ripping copy protected Gamecube games is clearly illegal in the U.S.A... meaning that, unless authorized by the copyright owner, there is no legal way to use Devolution.

 

[picano]

Between piracy and ripping, doesn't that mean there is no legal way of using any loader then? If the AP was implemented as a moral choice rather than a legal one, all arguments based on legality can be thrown out (for both sides).

 

[retKHAAAN]

Debating the legality of downloading isos is pointless. Does anyone actually think they are going to convince him to remove the AP with their "in some countries..." or "what I think..." arguments? He put it in there because he wanted to put it in there. It seems most of you are just bitching for the sake of bitching...still...after how long now?

Do you even own a Wii or any Gamecube games? Have you even used Devolution?

Whether or not this thread, and the sound arguments within, convince anyone is beside the point. According to the DMCA, no one in the U.S.A. can legally rip their copy protected Gamecube games to use them in Devolution (unless they are the rightful copyright owner of said games). In other words, in order use Devolution, a person has to break the law.

I do not own any Gamecube games.
I do not own a Wii.
I do not have in my home, automobile, place of business, or on my person a single piece of copyrighted content that I have not paid for. This includes all game, movie, literature, and music content. I pay for my shit. I take care of my shit. If I scratch up a game/dvd/cd beyond my device reading it, it's my own damn fault and not that of any homebrew developer.
Devolution does not affect me in any way whatsoever. I have not, nor will I ever, use it.
I do not see what any of the above has to do with any facet of this discussion other than reaching for some way to discredit my opinions on the matter (good luck with that).

 

[wiismodrome]

Between piracy and ripping, doesn't that mean there is no legal way of using any loader then? If the AP was implemented as a moral choice rather than a legal one, all arguments based on legality can be thrown out (for both sides).

As far as U.S. law goes, breaking copy protection to transfer Gamecube games to a hard drive is illegal, unless you have the authorization of the copyright owner. The DMCA makes that abundantly clear. See the Dmitry Sklyarov case as a good example (he broke encryption and was charged by U.S. Department of Justice). In other words, there is no legal way to use backup loaders for commercial Wii or Gamecube games.

My point is that people seem to be able to personally justify certain illegal actions and not others.... not only that, but they do so with a sense of moral superiority.

 

[PsyBlade]

US idiots claiming that US law applys to the whole world are quite common.
But Canadians?

 

[wiismodrome]

US idiots claiming that US law applys to the whole world are quite common.
But Canadians?

I did not claim that U.S. law applies to the whole world... though some American laws do apply to American citizens no matter where in the world they might be. Nor am I suggesting that I agree with the DMCA. But the law is the law... and good people don't knowingly break the law....

Most of the people using Devolution are likely from the U.S.... meaning that most people using the program have to break the law to do it.

Oh, and doesn't Germany have similar laws regarding digital locks?

Yes!

http://www.fipr.org/...ide/germany.htm

The German law faithfully reproduces the contradictions of the Directive. On one hand it explicitly gives a right to produce private copies of copyrighted material, while on the other it punishes the circumvention of technological protection mechanisms, apparently even if circumvention serves the sole purpose of producing a legal private copy. There are tough fines for the circumvention of copy protection measures, and if circumvention is done commercially, it can even lead to a prison sentence of up to two years. Copy-protected media have to be identified, however, and producers of such media have to provide the ability to unlock the protection for a few narrowly defined legitimate uses.

Sorry... no legal way to use Devolution in Germany either.....

 

[tmv_josue]

...............
Most of the people using Devolution are likely from the U.S.... meaning that most people using the program have to break the law to do it.
.................

Can you ensure that? I do not think so and while it were everyone is responsible for obeying the laws of his country.

 

[PsyBlade]

Yes, unfortunatly it has.
But that is not the point.

You said that there is no way to legaly use Devolution.
Yet there is a way: be in a country with sane laws.
There are much less people living the US and Germany combined than outside.

 

[wiismodrome]

No legal way for Americans or Germans... and Canadians, as soon as "DMCA North" becomes law.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Most of the people using Devolution are likely from the U.S.... meaning that most people using the program have to break the law to do it.

That is quite the claim. Any figures to back that up or are you merely basing an argument off of assumptions? Is it possible that maybe American pirates are quicker to speak up about how they're being "wronged" or "punished" than pirates from other parts of the world whose only means of aquiring many games is via piracy because of price gouging and/or lack of releases in their regions? I think I'll base my argument off of that assumption

 

[wiismodrome]

Just an assumption based upon relative units sold, plus the user base here....

Data on Wii system sales around the world here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#System_Sales

There's no way to provide a hard figure unless tueidj is keeping track of IP addresses and the people who are sharing the program with others around the world.

 

[PsyBlade]

No legal way for Americans or Germans... and Canadians, as soon as "DMCA North" becomes law.

that is quite an imporant distinction
and one you have to make in any international forum

trying to argue about legality is pointless unless all participants know which jurisdiction is meant
but usually everyone only talks about his jurisdiction without menioining it
and the discussion degenerates into useless bullshit

 

[retKHAAAN]

units sold =/= number of pirates in a country
especially with regard to a system utilized by children and old people...

 

[wiismodrome]

When I mentioned "no legal way..." previously, I was talking about in the United States. That whole paragraph was specifically about U.S. law. If I meant internationally, I would have stated it explicitly....

Also, U.S. law is particularly relevant here, because the programmer is American, or at least I think he is. So, U.S. law would apply.

Actually, I'm hoping that the Pirate Party will help change some of these stupid IP laws around the world.

 

[megazig]

the programmer is not American. please leave all your US law crap outside the door

 

[wiismodrome]

the programmer is not American. please leave all your US law crap outside the door

That's just emotion, not a rational statement.

Just ask the U.S. Department of Justice if in doubt. The DMCA very much applies to Americans, with the implication that it is not legal in the U.S.A. to rip copy protected Gamecube games for use with the program. In other words, any American using the program must break the law (unless they have been authorized by the copyright owner). The consequence is that while the program may contain anti-piracy measures, in order to actually use it, many potential users must break the law. So, while perhaps complying with one aspect of IP law, the program invites the breaking of another aspect of IP law; this holds in any nation with strict laws against breaking digital locks.

Still, I think that people might be missing the big picture here, that people seem rather comfortable drawing a seemingly arbitrary line regarding what they think is ethical and what is not, often dismissing the laws of their own nations in doing so, while harshly judging others who happen to hold a different perspective. Downloading an ISO (of a game you already own) is supposedly ethical, yet it is clearly illegal in most places. Breaking digital locks to rip games is supposedly ethical, yet it is clearly illegal for millions of users. Compelling arguments supporting these apparently contradictory positions have yet to be presented.

 

[Rydian]

As if I'm the one that wrote the laws or something?

 

[wiismodrome]

Here is a look at the laws of various European nations with regard to the legality breaking digital locks (like ripping Gamecube games):

http://www.michaelge.../view/6160/125/

• Switzerland links circumvention to actual copyright infringement. Article 39a(4) includes a full exception for circumvention of TPMs for legal purposes, providing “the prohibition of circumvention can not be applied to People who are primarily circumventing for the purpose of a legal use"
• Norway's anti-circumvention law states that the provisions shall not "hinder private users in gaining access to legally acquired works on that which is generally understood as relevant playback equipment"
• Finland's law expressly permits circumvention for non-infringing uses of lawfully acquired copies.
• Lithuania's anti-circumvention provisions include a specific exception that preserve personal use rights by requiring content owners to enable legitimate uses.
• The Czech Republic's digital lock rules include a specific exception for digital archiving
• Sweden's implementation of anti-circumvention legislation tries to ensure access to court cases and government documents that are subject to TPMs.
• Denmark's digital lock rules allow users to circumvent if the rights holder does not comply with an order from the Copyright License Tribunal to unlock for authorized purposes. Moreover, Denmark’s implementation includes an explanatory text that indicates that only TPMs used to prevent copying are protected. Accordingly, if a TPM seeks to expand protection beyond mere copyright protection it does not enjoy legal protection. For example, encoding DVDs with regional coding would presumably not enjoy protection, an interpretation confirmed by the Danish Ministry of Culture which has opined that it would not be unlawful to circumvent DVD regional encoding for lawfully acquired DVDs, nor to circumvent a TPM if the sole purpose is to use a lawfully acquired work
• Italy's digital lock rules require rights holders to allow users to exercise various exceptions found in its copyright legislation. Moreover, it includes the right to make one copy for personal use notwithstanding a TPM, provided that the work is lawfully acquired and the single copy does not prejudice the interests of the rights holder.
• Slovenia's digital lock rules include an exception that allow circumvention for teaching purposes
• Germany's digital lock rules limit the coverage solely to works that are subject to copyright protection
• Greece provides a positive right of access with the condition that failure to obtain the right leads first to mediation, followed by a legal right of action
• Austria and the Netherlands have legislation that assumes access for non-infringing material – Austria has said it is "monitoring" the situation, while the Netherlands has included the ability for the Justice Minister to issue decrees on the matter

 

[retKHAAAN]

@[member='wiismodrome']

It makes me wonder what you are NOT doing with your master's degree that you can be online arguing about arbitrary bullshit all day long... Your "argument" changes on a daily basis and is directed towards people who couldn't give two shits what you think or why you think it. No one here will wake up one morning, read you post, and change their mind on this "issue". I use quotes around the word "issue" because one doesn't actually exist as a result of Devolution. It was manufactured by people who have nothing better to do than throw a fit over a program that wasn't designed to their liking. I think it's time to get over it. Move on to something that is actually worth all the time and effort you (and everyone else here complaining) have put into this, like digging wells in Africa or teaching children to read or ladling soup at the homeless shelter... Anything, please.