Updating to Windows 10: Need Clarification

Discussion in 'Computer Software and Operating Systems' started by the_randomizer, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    So, despite the fact that I'm past the free Windows 10 update period, I've been thinking long and hard on updating or rather, setting up a dual-boot OS configuration for my PC. Now my reasoning behind this may sound weird to some, I don't know, but my experience with Windows 7 has been for the most part, very stable and reliable, esp. compared to using Windows XP. There are, however, a few concerns that I'm not too sure about that force me to be on the fence.

    - I have numerous programs installed on the C drive, where Win 7 is installed, if I install Win 10 on my second HDD, will all those previously installed on C:/ (Source Filmmaker, Steam/UPlay games) all still be able to be accessed but just need to make a shortcut for them?

    - My particular WiFi adapter is a TP-Link Archer 12UH, and according to the manufacturer's site, there are no Windows 10 drivers, only 8/8.1, and also stating that there is only partial support with the 2.4/5 GHz bandwidth. This here is a potential deal-breaker for me, if I can't use my wireless adapter without it freaking out, there's really no point, and currently no way for me to use Ethernet as the router is in the room downstairs.

    - Another thing is, driver compatibility with other devices, i.e my Realtek HD audio, I know that Microsoft would more than likely install default drivers for integrated audio, but I don't know how well they'd work. GPU drivers aren't an issue as nVidia has plenty for Win 10.

    - I've been following or reading this guide here, http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-dual-boot-windows-7-or-8-with-windows-10-3633084/ on how to set up a dual boot OS config on my machine and it looks pretty straightforward, I essentially allocate 30 or so GB on my second HDD as a new partition and load the USB media from boot, and do a custom install and install Win 10 on the new partition.

    What I want to know is, does installing it have any effect on the second HDD's data at all? Have most of the complaints that people said about Win 10's draconian anti-piracy detection or some crap like that? And finally, given that I missed the free update period, I would have use the KMS activation method to make it like a legit copy right? Not gonna ask for that here, obviously, but I assume it's fail proof and safe to use to activate. Sorry for the numerous questions, i want to dual boot OS in case something goes horribly wrong with 10, as my previous experience has not been uh ideal. I got the ISO from the Microsoft Update Tool, so at least I know that's safe enough.

    Thank you for your time.
     
  2. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    Why not just temporarily pull out your Windows 7 HDD and put in a blank or second HDD in it's place and install Windows 10 from there? After you get done installing Windows 10, then you can return your Windows 7 HDD back in it's SATA port where it was plugged in before the pull out and you can use the BIOS or UEFI boot menu to select which HDD to boot into. This way you can test the Windows 10 without mucking up your Windows 7 install and if you like it then you can either wipe out Windows 7 or edit Windows 7 BCD entry to add Windows 10 to the list of OS. However this method will definitely require re-installing all of your software and drivers for Windows 10 as it does not have registry entrees to even run properly. The good is you can give Windows 10 a go before you decide if you are happy with it or not.
    If you are feeling adventurous, I think you can install Windows 10 in VHD image and run it from there all from your Windows 7 hard drive and wont even touch the Windows 7 install, (aside for making an entry in the BCD store for semi-direct booting into VHD).

    Edit:
    I think I may have misread your post. I have not ever upgraded an OS with a redirected path or on another hard drive other then the one currently booted. I have to imagine that the programs probably will not even work this way, it may fare a better chance of working by doing an in place upgrade. So perhaps you can clone your first drive to your second and, then boot into your second HDD and do an in place upgrade from there.
     
    Last edited by RandomUser, Aug 26, 2016
  3. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    Currently no spare HDDs that are big enough, not enough space cables for power cables and not enough funds to get a new drive; I'd rather keep up the config I have not without spending anything; a recent dental procedure set me back quite a bit. I'd love to clone my drive, don't have spare HDD space as both drives are 1 TB (well, less than that when in use, as they're not truly 1 TB max).

    C Drive - Contains Windows 7
    D Drive - second HDD, plenty of space for a partition within here for me to install Windows 10 on.

    What would be wrong with me dual booting the OS and having the second OS on a separate partition on the drive that has no OS right now?
     
  4. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    My reply before the edit suggest just that, install the OS on your secondary drive. It does require a slight changes in the configuration, but should be easy to restore. All you have to do is pull out the power plug and maybe the SATA plug from your Windows 7 HDD to preserve the OS.
    I have not tried upgrading an existing OS to be installed on another drive where the existing OS exist on C:\ Drive. Since you have me intrigue on your upgrade path, I am going to try to see what happens in VMWare. I know you can do an in place upgrade (C: to C:), and even then issues may arises, as it's not a clean install, but a more proper way to do it. If you're going to install Windows 10 OS while your Windows 7 HDD is still enabled, then you will run into problem down the road with the bootloader order, in case if you do not like Windows 10.
    Again I am trying to see what happens if upgrade were to take place with a different path.
     
  5. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    I did post a guide on the OP that explains how to go about a dual OS setup, I thought? Since you're booting from USB and choosing a custom install to direct the OS install to the separate partition, I'd think that nothing bad would happen. And given the fact my particular model of WiFi adapter only having partial driver support in Win 10 is bit of a red flag :wacko:

    Guide here http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-dual-boot-windows-7-or-8-with-windows-10-3633084/ says it can be done and unplugging the C drive, yeah, I'd rather not have to do that TBH.

    The guide states:

    1. Create a new partition on your hard drive using the Windows Disk Management Utility.
    2. Place the DVD or USB containing the new version of Windows in your PC, then reboot the machine.
    3. Install Windows 10, being sure to select the Custom option.
    4. Select the newly created partition as the destination for Windows 10. Then click Next to install the operating system.
    Edit: I do have a 1 TB USB HDD, cloning it wouldn't work well (I don't think, as it would take forever to clone 1 TB to a USB 3.0 HDD), I'll back up all the vital files; Steam games can be re-downloaded easily.
     
    Last edited by the_randomizer, Aug 26, 2016
  6. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    The guide is correct, but to reverse the process maybe time consuming. It only shows one HDD and two partitions. The way I suggested would save you the headache if in case if you ever want to go get rid of Windows 10. What I think will happen in your case, Windows 10 will install it's own bootloader and write the MBR on the second HDD to be bootable, and make the first one non-bootable. In essence the Windows 10 will then be the dominant bootloader. Although I could be wrong on this, if you have a Windows 7 CD and have some time on your hands, and if I am right about this, then you will need to make the first HDD bootable again, with command bootrec.exe /fixboot /FixMbr and not sure about /RebuildBcd. There might be more to this, I use grub4dos as my bootloader as I have several OS to boot to. Come to think of it, I really do not know if those commands even work with GPT partitions. At worst Windows 10 could completely overwrite Windows 7 bootloader. I don't know if Windows 7 can boot fine without Windows 10 OS using Windows 10 bootloader, I think it should work fine.
    I just tried to see if I can upgrade, however with Windows 7 running, Windows 10 Install file did not give me the option to install on another HDD. So perhaps, even when in USB setup and with upgrade selected, it will automatically overwrite your previous Windows install. So what ever you do, do not select upgrade.
    Again just trying to save you the aggravation, in case you decided to get rid of Windows 10, so that Windows 7 should boot again without issues. It is easy going forward, but not as easy going back.
    It's your call.
     
    the_randomizer likes this.
  7. vb_encryption_vb

    vb_encryption_vb That hardmod guy....

    Member
    1,882
    901
    Nov 21, 2015
    United States
    Acworth, GA
    Windows 10 / 8 changes the file structure. You won't be able to access win7 files from win10.

    Dual booting the 2 is going to be hell as well.
     
    VinsCool and the_randomizer like this.
  8. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    That doesn't make sense though, if I have Win 7 on the C drive, but install Win 10 on the second HDD's empty partition, I won't be able to see anything on the C drive? Is that what you're saying? What do you suggest I do then, if I'm to update to 10 and be able to keep all info on both HDDs?

    C Drive - Windows 7 + numerous files, 250 GB free space.
    D Drive - Files only, 120 GB of free space, surely a partition could be made and I can still access the C drive from the D drive once I get 10 up, can I not?

    But if you look at the guide, during the USB install, there's a "custom installation (advanced)" menu, that lets you choose where to install onto the newly formed partition, no? What do you suggest I do? I can certainly back up most, if not all my data to my 1 TB HDD, but given that this WiFi adapter doesn't work well under Win 10....I just don't know anymore.

    Edit: I'm seeing a lot of guides that show people on Windows 7 adding a partition for Windows 10

    http://www.groovypost.com/howto/dual-boot-windows-10-other-versions-windows/

    http://www.askvg.com/tip-dual-boot-between-windows-10-and-your-existing-windows-78-1-os/
     
    Last edited by the_randomizer, Aug 26, 2016
  9. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    So do you actually have two HDD or one HDD with two partition? I thought it was the former?
    Is your secondary HDD inside your computer i.e. in the computer case and connected?
    If the former and yes, then my suggestion is to disconnect the HDD Windows 7 is on. Then boot into that Windows 10 installer setup and install away on the second HDD. After done installing, reconnect your Windows 7 HDD back. You may have to configure your BIOS back to your preference, mainly the boot order of your drives. Your BIOS or UEFI (not in BIOS setup) should have an option to be able to select any drive you want to boot into by pressing a certain key.

    @vb_encryption_vb
    I was able to see all of my Windows 7 files just fine from Windows 10 and vice versa. Am I missing something?

    Edit: I tried just installing Windows 10 with another version of Windows present on another drive using custom install, the other OS appears to be untouched, but not sure as looks can be deceiving and hidden changes could have been made. Again you have to decide if you want to take the risk.

    Edit again: I just remembered that if you do not want to disconnect your drive, then you can offline the HDD that Windows 7 resides in while in Windows 10 setup using Diskpart command. Need to press shift + F10 to bring up command prompt.
     
    Last edited by RandomUser, Aug 26, 2016
    the_randomizer likes this.
  10. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    Sorry for the confusion, yes, two HDDs, one has Win 7 on it and files, the other just has files; the one I wish to install Win 10 is on the second non-OS HDD, but with a dedicated partition so it doesn't format the entire disk. I've started backing up all vital data as I need to get into the habit, not out of fear of anything necessarily, and onto my 1 TB external drive. The guide shows that once booting up on the USB (burned using Rufus as the Windows Update tool refused to recognize my flash drive, no matter how many times I formatted it), got the official ISO from the MS tool though, so I know the image is clean. I believe I have legacy BIOS and not UEFI as I did check for that as well, UEFI can make it a bit more of a pain when loading from USB. To answer, yes, both HDDs are currently in use on my PC right now, C drive is Win 7, D drive is files only to reiterate once more.

    I mostly want to try Windows 10 to see if it actually works with my hardware, as again, the TP-Link WiFi adapter I use has no Windows 10 drivers at the time or writing, so according to the site, there's only partial support for the 2.4 GHz range.
     
  11. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    Okay yeah, You don't need to disconnect the Win7 HDD if you offline it in Win10 Setup using diskpart in command prompt. Personally I think it would be easier to simply temporarily disconnect the Win7 HDD and install the Win10 on that non-OS HDD. Then when it is done installing fully, you can reconnect the Win7 HDD. Your BIOS should have a BBS popup menu, to allow you to select the hdd to boot to, usually by pressing a specific button during post.
     
    the_randomizer likes this.
  12. slaphappygamer

    slaphappygamer Frizzle Fry

    Member
    1,212
    212
    Nov 30, 2008
    United States
    California
    Oh man, I went from Windows 7, on my Inspiron R15, to windows10. I found myself trying to disable all the background processes. there was so much crap and after a a couple months of me trying to like windows10, I really tried. I couldn't. I'm back on Windows 7. My laptop was not listed as compatible with windows10, nor was it said to be incompatible.
     
  13. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    Right, I'll need to see what my BIOS set up looks like, I haven't had to use it in some time; but I assume booting the installer off of the USB drive would work just fine. From there I simply click "install now" and "custom install" and then choose the partition. As far as command goes, I'm not exactly super adept at it, so I wouldn't even know what to type or which commands to use. Is there any reason why I'd have to use that to create a partition on the D drive and not doing it with the disk manager in Windows? I've actually done it before without any issues, as there's no OS on that HDD itself; according to most guides, 30-40 GB is enough for the OS.

    Hence why I'm doing it as a dual boot and not as the main OS, no way would I ever want 10 to be the main OS, but having a choice between the two; I don't even know how well it will work on my machine. I more than meet the requirements, it's the fact some of my devices aren't full compatible with 10, and that TP-link was stated as "working on writing Win 10 drivers". It seems to be a YMMV sort of thing, I'll do more research.
     
    Last edited by the_randomizer, Aug 26, 2016
  14. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    You are pretty much good to go, the non-OS HDD is already partitioned and exactly how you stated: "click "install now" and "custom install" and then choose the partition". I just recommend to hide the existing OS from view some how. It really doesn't matter how. Diskmanager is not available by default in the setup or PE environment. You could copy diskmgmt.msc from the install.wim to the boot.wim, although it may not work. If you offline your Win7 HDD, then that will effectively hide the Windows 7 from Windows 10, at least during the initial install phase which is good enough. The thing about "off-lining" the HDD the only accessible way natively from setup PE is command prompt using diskpart. If you can get diskmgmt.msc (probably needs some other files) to work in the PE environment, you can use that instead. Just right click on the HDD and click on offline. This involves modifying your Windows installation file.
    I have tried to install Windows 10 on another virtual drive with another Windows OS in plain view, and seem to not effect the other OS install. Although hidden changes could have taken place on the virtual drive that the other Windows OS resides in.
    So pick your poison so to speak.
     
    the_randomizer likes this.
  15. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    I have no idea how to hide the Win 7 OS partition from the Win 10 installer, as far as I know there isn't any other way other than simply unplugging the HDD after I turn it off, plug the USB flash drive in, got to the BIOS, select the option to boot from USB. From there I install Windows 10. The other problem is this isn't 100% official, well, the ISO is from MS themselves, the problem is I've no key, and would likely have to use the KMS activation method, which I won't ask for here for obvious reasons.
     
  16. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    Yes, unplugging the HDD is the most simplest way, it may not be elegant, but is the most efficient way. Even with the official Windows 10 iso, I don't ever remember if I had to input the key or not, I have the Legit Full Enterprise version of Windows 10 iso and I think I was able to skip the key input. If you want to, look for the Enterprise version of Windows 10, it gives you more control anyways. I don't see anything wrong with KMS activation, it seems to work just as good as MAC activation, aside from expiry every X days.
     
    the_randomizer likes this.
  17. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    Eh, no need for me to use the Enterprise edition really, but I assume the only reason for me to unplug the C Drive would be to avoid inadvertently overwriting the Windows 7 installation, right? Other than that, if I do keep both plugged in, I would have to be extremely careful and pick the D drive where I made a dedicated partition for the second OS. Now the thing that I'm wondering, I have many Steam games installed to the D drive on here, would I have to reinstall them or any other apps that are on the C drive as well? Wait, which one requires renewal? MAC or KMS?
     
  18. RandomUser

    RandomUser What has gotten into you Rosie?

    Member
    592
    213
    May 9, 2010
    United States
    Pretty much all applications will require re-installation in Windows 10, for registry purpose. The portable software will run just fine without reinstall. The reason I suggest Hiding the OS or more aptly put disable the Win7 hard drive is to prevent Windows 10 setup from making any changes to Windows 7 HDD. Howerver tried last night with both drive enabled and visable, it appeared that there is no ill effect (I cannot guarantee this) to the Windows 7 HDD. KMS will require renewal, this can be rectified by using "Microsoft Toolkit" software that can be downloaded on "that life" forum. It can keep the countdown from counting down.
     
    the_randomizer likes this.
  19. the_randomizer
    OP

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

    Member
    22,386
    10,736
    Apr 29, 2011
    United States
    Dr. Wahwee's castle
    Is there no way to do a permanent activation with KMS or MAC? Hmm, still on the fence to be honest, I'll do some more Google searching to see what I can find out on whether or not it effects other OS installations.
     
  20. VinsCool

    VinsCool Disgusted

    Member
    GBAtemp Patron
    VinsCool is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    11,981
    28,948
    Jan 7, 2014
    Canada
    An Alternate Reality
    Not as far as I know. The Auto KMS method is proven relliable, as long as you make sure to not let antiviruses kill the :hacktools: AUTOKMS thing.
     
    the_randomizer likes this.