The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    There’s a lot of people abusing asylum. Why don’t they seek asylum in one of these South American countries? People go through several South American countries to get here, some that offer asylum. Why not go there instead? Mexico offers Asylum.
     
  2. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    A lot of people think U.S. standard of living is higher. So they refuse to take the offer of asylum in South American countries they pass through, some that are nice countries, to come here. They want work with high pay and high standard of living but abuse the asylum system.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 16, 2019
  3. Loyalty

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    Everyone knows the answer to that... "free stuff".... Use the emergency rooms as free healthcare (abusing the system),welfare,food stamps, housing, schooling... The problem is there is running out of people to actually pay for that free stuff... Borrowing is putting a strain on everything... and the debt (sorry Trump-worshippers but Trump has not helped one bit with is record budgets) is gonna bite and bite hard one day soon. The leftist loons think free just magically appears, and they talk about science but can't tell a male from a female and deny the math is gonna bit back. Politicians play the pass the buck game to the next generation of politicians. The USA can not absorb the whole of the world... in trying to do so it is destroying itself and pushing for a one world government.... which is the globalists goal anyway....
     
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  4. zomborg

    zomborg Makin Temp great again

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    Good point. In the early days of our country we may have needed an influx of migrants to help settle the wild land but today, as you so accurately stated, we cannot absorb the entire world's population. The end result, if not global government, would be that instead of America taking in the huddled masses, we would BE the huddled masses. Looking for someone to take us in, feed and clothe us.
     
  5. Smoker1

    Smoker1 GBAtemp Addict

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    Unless someone can prove absolutely without a doubt actual Documented, Valid Proof that Qualified Trump's Wife for a Einstein Visa, her ass better be one of the first to get Deported.
    Trump - Trump's Wife Illegal Immigrant.
     
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  6. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    If I'm wrong, the results of the last two elections certainly don't show it. Progressives voted for Obama hoping for real change, what they got instead was a moderate president that they were willing to tolerate because he was otherwise a strong leader. But that frustration of still wanting to see real change manifested when we were offered yet another status quo candidate in Hillary. If the moderate vote mattered more than the progressive vote, it would've been enough to hand her the victory. Instead, Trump won by playing to the hard-right base. It's come down to progressives versus regressives.

    I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself: it's because businesses and corporations in the US offer so many job opportunities to illegals. It's also because the gangs and drug cartels that operate in South America operate in Mexico too.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 16, 2019
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  7. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Looks like Mexico is having a Migrant problem too. Mexican president gets some backlash and they are being overrun by migrants.


    https://www.apnews.com/aa60885718a04002b61b09975622303c


    So U.S. is being overrun by migrants they have to process, verify, provide resources, check if cartels are abusing immigration loop holes. Too much political bickering and refusal to provide money and resources to deal with this problem no matter how much they beg for more resources.


    They told Mexico to crack down on Migrants so that U.S. is not over run. But now Mexico is overrun, and they are having a migrant problem.

    Politicians yell at U.S. Boarder agents, and boarder agents yell back at congress that these rules they are enforcing is their problem they created. If you have a problem then change your laws.

    They tried to call the boarder agent racist because of the conditions of migrant children then he gets pissed off and yells back telling them congress isn’t doing it’s job to fix this problem and won’t give them resources which Democrats keep on blocking. This is in addition to another video I linked with a different person, a representative, yelling at politicians for the same reason.


    That same boarder agent offers solutions to help the problem many times which congress refuses to do while calling him a racist.

     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 16, 2019
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  8. Psionic Roshambo

    Psionic Roshambo GBAtemp Addict

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    The easy answer to all of this... is an old saying, follow the money. Why would anyone want non documented illegal people in the country? (any country.) The answer is a pool or easily exploited cheap labor that you don't have to pay minimum wage or provide any sort of benefits for... Sounds fun? They pay zero taxes, have no insurance, and make very little money. So the healthcare system has to put money out taking care of these people, meanwhile they put nothing back in unless it's sales tax but a large chunk of hospital funding comes from the federal government.

    "With the exception of the Federal hospitals, which are funded entirely from Federal tax revenues, hospital funding comes from a variety of sources, including:

    • Medicare and Medicaid for patients covered by those Federal programs
    • Local tax revenues for some of the local governmental hospitals
    • Insurance companies
    • Out-of-pocket payments from patients
    • Donations
    • Grants

    I have been working in various hospitals for the last year, Florida doesn't have a huge illegal immigrant problem. I still see them from time to time but in general, I don't see a lot of them.

    One thing missing from that quote, is the tax write off issue... Just as an example as a fictitious person Susan has no insurance and no social security number, she falls and breaks 3-4 bones in her body because she was drunk at the beach and tried to do a backwards somersault off of a bench. So of course she goes to the hospital, the Dr's perform some cool surgeries like pins and casts and fusing bones back together, X-rays and MRI's and CT scans and all those cool tests to make sure she is going to be A OK! She wont pay a dime but the hospital bill would be 10's of thousands of dollars... Possibly even more. The hospital knows it will never collect on this money, the Dr's will never get paid, so they all write if off as a tax deduction... Taxes that normally would be flowing back into the government.

    So Susan isn't paying taxes, but she also nuked a huge tax bill for the hospital! Win Win! unless your paying your taxes and you get a little pissed off at that whole situation.

    I can see why people are angry on one side, the other side... I am not sure what they are angry about. No country is responsible for how well another country is or isn't doing. If people are worried about how country X is doing... maybe they should help them improve that country so bad stuff can really stop happening. Helping a small % of immigrants isn't going to provide long term change in that country and may actually harm it. Imagine if all your best and brightest just up and left...
     
  9. zomborg

    zomborg Makin Temp great again

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    When members of our own congress are turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to the solutions our brave border patrol agents are presenting them and even calling him a racist, it proves that our main enemy is not without but instead within. We are fighting harder against enemies who want to destroy us from within.
     
  10. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Disingenuous garbage. McConnell blocks anything and everything that comes from the House, especially if the aim is humanitarian aid to immigrants. Republicans don't want to change the laws for the better, and they'll keep up this two-faced bullshit as long as it continues serving corporate interests while simultaneously riling up the people with confederate flag bumper stickers.

    "I was just following orders." Now where have we heard that excuse before?
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 16, 2019
  11. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    And Democrats don’t wanna do shit. They refuse aid.

    It’s not his fault that they refuse to close immigration loop holes that cartels abuse.

    He’s telling them solutions to fix the problem. But they refuse. That’s not disingenuous garbage if he’s offering solutions.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 16, 2019
  12. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Have you considered the distinct possibility that the Democrat discourse has shifted so far to the left that it left moderates far behind? People who used to be called centrist are now considered right-leaning - moderates didn't disappear from the race, you guys just left the field altogether. As for the "progressive versus regressive" dichotomy, I have some problems with it, not all "progressive" goals entail progress. In fact, in many ways they're regressive, but that's a subject for another thread.
     
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  13. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    The Democrats voted to pass the Senate funding bill, and yet there hasn't been any improvement in conditions for immigrants. It's simply not a priority for the Republicans, and they'll gladly redirect that money elsewhere when given the chance.

    If you believe the GOP talking points, every two-year-old child crossing the border is a member of the cartel. It's complete horseshit. The government is breaking the law by criminalizing those seeking asylum.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 16, 2019
  14. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Nah, our most leftist candidate isn't even a Democrat, he's an Independent. And he's only about as "extremist" as FDR was. So if anything, we're just getting back to our roots of being the party of the working class.

    That's because the center has shifted to the right. Decades of everlasting war have numbed us to corporate influence in our elections and profiteering from human suffering. If 'centrists' are willing to turn a blind eye to the blatant racism and indecency that Trump has used the presidency to amplify, they were never really centrists. If that means we get to purge a few DINOs from the party and still come out on top as we did in 2018, even better.

    Trump identifies himself as a "50s guy," and that's exactly the decade he's trying to regress us back to. Sure, not every progressive idea can be a winner, but that's because they're NEW ideas, not the same old shit that's been proven time and again to fail.
     
  15. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I disagree with the assessment, but at least you were willing to answer earnestly. The center hasn't moved much, the Republican stance has softened over the years, but the discourse on the Democratic side of the spectrum has definitely shifted leftwards. The *candidates* they nominate are fairly moderate, but that's specifically because they realise how far the base has gone off the beaten track - appealing to "the base" would mean having to embrace ideas from Loonbagia that do not have popular support which would alienate most of the country. As for the "progressive" ideas themselves, I disagree with the notion that they're hit and miss because they're new and haven't been tried before - this sounds a whole lot like "real communism hasn't been tried before". A lot of them can't and won't work because they're completely unrealistic, or proven to be ineffective - they're so progressive that they're regressive.
     
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  16. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    It WAS softening with candidates like Romney, but Trump swallowed the party whole and took a hard right with it. He and McConnell are not moderate or centrist by any stretch of the imagination, and neither makes any attempt to appeal to the center, because they know it's not a winning strategy.

    Well you're right, many of these ideas have been implemented and proven to work just fine in other first-world countries. It's pathetic that the USA has fallen so far behind the curve, rather than continuing to be a leader on the world stage in every category.
     
  17. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Donald Trump is not a Republican. In terms of policy he's barely even "Conservative" in the traditional sense. Until 5 minutes ago in historical terms he'd be considered a normal New York Democrat with some kooky ideas on trade. As I said, the Democratic "base" has moved so far to the left that it alienated large swathes of people, leaving them to fend for themselves in what used to be the center. They no longer identify with the more radical incarnation of the party, so naturally they leaned towards the now-softened Republican party, or towards lesser known alternatives.

    According to Pew Research less and less people hold a mix of Liberal and Conservative opinions - they now skew one way or the other, and they go all-in. Moreover, the ideological divide between the right and the left is deeper than it's ever been, and the survey they've conducted shows that Liberals specifically have moved in their positions to the extreme left, and they did so very rapidly compared to previous decades.

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-co...47/10-05-2017-Political-landscape-release.pdf

    As for "things that work in other countries", you will have to be more specific. I live in one of those countries, so I can tell you what works and what doesn't thanks to first-hand experience. Immigration is certainly a less sore subject on the Old Continent, in the sense that we don't feel guilty for deporting people who entered the country illegally. The contingent of "open borders" people is relatively small compared to the U.S., perhaps that's the difference.
     
  18. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    GWB wasn't a conservative either, which goes to show that the party has been drifting away from its roots for some time now.

    Oh give me a break. A Lincoln-era Democrat, maybe. He's a self-described nationalist, and he worships authoritarians because he wants to be like them. And let's not dance around it: he's an unapologetic racist, to the point that even the NIXON administration sued him over discriminatory housing practices.

    None of the statements in that polling are indicative of a shift to the "extreme left," and the study doesn't claim to represent that. The widening gap in opinions is not surprising, however, as Democrats are growing tired of attempts to compromise which just come back to bite them in the ass later. The polling on immigrants strengthening the country is encouraging, but only if that 42% of Republicans shows the courage of their convictions. On so many other issues, it's hard to find common ground when most Trump supporters refuse to acknowledge even basic scientific fact.

    Many of the biggest problems center around our broken healthcare system, of course. Mental healthcare and taking care of our veterans falling under that same category. I'm sure your country has far superior systems in place for all of these issues.

    Deportation isn't a point of contention here either. Obama deported a lot of people, the difference being that his administration treated deportees humanely. I imagine there would be a bit of an uproar if Poland was keeping 150 immigrants in cages meant for 30, and those people were being held for 400+ days. Or, even worse, children were being molested and dying from neglect in said cages.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 16, 2019
  19. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    So the next step would be to try and pay mexico to keep them in country. because if you don't do that - they are incentivized to 'not look' if the migrants are moving onward towards the US.

    Its usually less expensive to pay for people being given humanitarian care in mexico, that in the US. And mexico longterm - has a higher potential working population, if they can build economies around that, so you should help them do that. But now the issue fo them may become stability (young people, out of work, wages dropping...).

    Instead you want to tax them more - so that they start to really dont care. :) Someone tell the far right, that they are producing the issue they are trying to win elections on. :) At least partly.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jul 16, 2019
  20. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    The study proves it directly, actually. The survey was very simple - it's 10 questions that have more liberal or more conservative answers, it tests political alignment. The graph shows exactly what I claimed it does - the Democrat curve veered *hard* to left and created a spire whereas the Republican curve flattened.

    _20190716_100810.JPG
    Republicans are *less consistently conservative*, Democrats are *more consistently liberal*, it's right there.

    As for Trump, he's not a racist. Having a fondness for strong leadership, aka what you call "authoritarianism" is neither left nor right-wing, history shows that both left and right-wing authoritarianism is a possibility. The political compass has two axes - the left-right axis and the authoritarian-libertarian axis. He does describe himself as a nationalist, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, although it does have a negative connotation.

    In terms of his political alignment, the Democrats have been advocating for the construction of a physical barrier at the border for as long as I remember, this includes Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Shumer who all supported the Secure Fence Act of 2006. I won't even get into Hillary's statements regarding "super predators" or other tasty treats from recent history. You might have amnesia, but I don't - Trump stands precisely where Democrats used to stand not so long ago. He's nowhere near matching Deporter in Chief, Trump's numbers are lagging behind his predecessor. Of course coincidentally Democrat mayors refuse to cooperate with his administration even in the cases of immigrants who received their final notices, I wonder if it has something to do with the party label. In any case, it's not "Lincoln-Era Democrat", it's "5 minutes ago Democrat".

    Regarding healthcare, the last thing you want is an NHS-style entity. It's colossaly wasteful and its supposed efficiency is grossly overestimated.

    On a less serious note, you are giving Poland a lot of undue credit. I can assure you that it's undeserved.
     
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