The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. grind3r4rlz

    grind3r4rlz Banned

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    I'm not @cots. From what I can tell about the person is that they are an Independent and that goes against more core values. I'm a Republican not someone who can't make up their mind. The only reason I came here is because of the moderator encouraging the assassination of our president that I found out about by lurking in your Discord server. I've reported that to the proper authorities. It's hard not to read what cots had to say when he's been 1 of the only 2 active chatters in the #chat channel for the last two or three months. I pinged him. Let's see what he has to say about it.
     
  2. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    In this thread, no one encouraged the assassination of anybody.
     
  3. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    I'll agree with that argument the second Congress actually does something. Btw, do you feel the same about Obamacare?

    Edit - And to be clear, the reason I bring up Obamacare is because there's multiple Republican Senators on the record stating that hope Obamacare is stricken down by the courts. Some of that seems to be to remove any claims of culpability for repealing Obamacare and hence possibly losing votes. Others indicate they want it because they think it might spur further discussion of some sort of "compromise" legislation. Regardless, the point is that Congress seems intentionally punting to the courts just as much as they are to the Executive, but both sides bitch about it only when the outcome doesn't match their expectations. It's not really some core, principled stance for most politicians.
     
    Last edited by kuwanger, Jul 15, 2019
  4. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I wonder how tall the wall will have to be until children can no longer scale it safely. On a more serious note, the detention centers are overcrowded because illegal immigrants are not processed fast enough, which is a joint failure of the executive and the judiciary, and the border is not secure enough, which is a failure of the legislature. The Trump administration at least broached the issue, for which it deserves a lot of credit - we wouldn't even be talking about the deplorable conditions at the border if not for Trump's strong push for immigration reform, a staple of his 2016 run which effectively won him the election. Ideally I too would like the ports of entry to be fully equipped with both the resources and the legal power to determine asylum eligibility there and then, but that will take both money and effort of Congress to achieve. I hope to see such reform in my lifetime, but I won't hold my breath with both sides of the debate blockading each other.
    I think healthcare, just like any other service, should be fully privatised. As an extra spicy kicker I'll also say that Social Security should be dismantled, although to be fair, the latter is well in its way to dismantling itself as the Social Security trust fund is rapidly running out of money due to Social Security not being used for its original purpose - helping the poor and destitute, as opposed to being a second kitchen renovation fund for boomers who are already well-off.
     
  5. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    I think you're missing my point. tl;dr of my edit above, Obamacare is (possibly) being stricken down by the courts. Regardless of whether you think healthcare should be privatized or not, Congress pretty clearly passed legislation on multiple occasions (Medicare/Medicaid and Obamacare) to make it at least quasi-public. So, the courts acting to strike it down is clearly going against Legislative intent. Meanwhile, Congress has continued to not act on the border situation leaving it up to previous legislation, the executive branch, and court lawsuits over whether the executive branch is exceeding authorities delegated to it by Congress.
     
  6. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    You can stop now. We know. It only gets more embarrassing as you continue. You can just use your original account, you won't lose more face than you already have.

    Untitled4.

    I understand your question now. Yes, relying on the courts to do the job of the legislature is a dangerous game and I think the Republicans are sleeping with the devil here as they're loading the exact same gun they've been shot with before. They should endeavour to remove power from the courts, not enshrine it - this is not their job.
     
  7. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    When the Ice Official said the Zero Tolerance Memo the source of this and he says he recommended things to secure the boarder and save lives. The family separation is like what it is with every other Native U.S. citizen that commits a crime.


    Getting a traffic ticket is not the same as going to jail for committing a crime. Unless people want kids to go to jail with their parents they are separated.

    The vast majority of illegal crossings are illegal, and are criminals under 8 U.S. code section 1325. And the ones that aren’t are doing it legally.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 15, 2019
  8. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    TIL illegally crossing the border is illegal, and for some reason needed to be explained.
     
  9. grind3r4rlz

    grind3r4rlz Banned

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    I'm not this @cots fellow so whatever you think you know is wrong. Wouldn't creating two accounts be a bannable offense? If so then ban us both. I'm not sure how he would take it, but I just got here and have already said what needed to be said.

    There's the severity of the crime to think about. If you're a licensed citizen legally driving a that gets a minor ticket for going a little above the marked speed limit that's not that big of a deal compared to a foreign invader that you have no record of or know their intentions. I believe the current system is too lenient. While the border could use more resources I think that anything that encourages illegal activity and anything that helps illegals once they are here should be outlawed and that the people responsible for these things should be jailed in the process. Walls would help and so would armed guards. Possibly some sniper drones and land mines.
     
  10. Chary

    Chary Never sleeps.

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    Chary is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

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    Ask and you shall receive.
     
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  11. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    Are you having a stroke?

    They're overcrowded because of a broken immigration system and because of Trump administration policies. You also seem to have forgotten about the bipartisan immigration reform bill that was killed by the Republicans during Obama's presidency because, well, he was Obama. An inability to reform immigration now is the fault of Trump and the Republicans, and anything other than border security is not one of their priorities.

    Trump killed immigration reform. He deserves no credit.

    1. We wouldn't be talking about the deplorable conditions at the border if not for Trump's deplorable conditions at the border.
    2. Trump's "strong push" for immigration reform is predominantly a.) A border wall, and b.) Less legal immigration.

    Being anti-immigrant is what helped him win the election. Things that also helped him win the election include (but aren't limited to):
    1. A broken Electoral College system
    2. Russian interference
    Trump has practically blocked asylum seeking at the port of entries arbitrarily, not because there was any reason to. Doing this is also, arguably, illegal.

    And how did that work out?

    In what world is Social Security running out of money, let alone rapidly? That's objectively false, but I don't expect you to concede anything.

    Many people use it for the former, not the latter.

    That's not the purpose of the child separation policy. They've already admitted the purpose of it and the harm it caused was to deter illegal immigration. There is nothing about the Trump family separation policy that "saves lives" or does any good.

    Not all crimes are equal. US families don't get separated with many/most crimes. As I said earlier:
    1. Aside from crossing the border illegal, the vast majority aren't criminals. We don't separate children from parents for traffic tickets, for example.
    2. Many of the asylum seekers are legal asylum seekers.
    3. The Trump administration had no plan to reunite the families.
    4. The children are being held in deplorable conditions.
    5. Children are dying.
    6. The illegal crossings are often happening because asylum seekers have no way to seek asylum at the ports of entry.
    We aren't talking about jail or crimes big enough to cause one to go to jail. We are talking about illegal border crossings, detainment, and processing. And, again, for many asylum seekers, they are legal asylum seekers.

    Family separation is deplorable, and it's psychological trauma. It should only be reserved in dire circumstances, and illegal border crossings isn't one of those circumstances. I don't know why you or anyone else are defending this.

    1. Many of the asylum seekers are legal asylum seekers.
    2. Aside from the illegal border crossing itself, the vast majority of these people are not criminals.
    3. The detainment conditions are deplorable.
    4. Child-separation is deplorable.
    5. Children are dying.
    6. There was no plan to reunite the families.
    7. Illegal crossings are often happening because the Trump administration has illegally blocked seeking asylum at ports of entry.
    Understandably, I'm getting tired of repeating myself. I'm probably going to limit my posts in this thread at some point in the near future.
     
    Last edited by Lacius, Jul 15, 2019
  12. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    Yes, that's precisely the problem. There is no legal means by which to cross into the US now that Trump has criminalized the asylum process.
     
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  13. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    1. Many of the asylum seekers are legal asylum seekers.
    2. Aside from the illegal border crossing itself, the vast majority of these people are not criminals.
    3. The detainment conditions are deplorable.
    4. Child-separation is deplorable.
    5. Children are dying.
    6. There was no plan to reunite families with regard to the Trump family separation policy.
    7. Illegal crossings are often happening because the Trump administration has illegally blocked seeking asylum at ports of entry.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Illegally criminalized the asylum process, per federal law and international treaties.
     
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  14. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Well-spotted accidental repeat, predictive text betrays me once more, I've corrected it now. It's a shame that you didn't quite get the joke - let it simmer, it will dawn on you eventually. On the subject of fully privatised healthcare, I'm not sure how it would work out, first it would have to be tried - right now the system suffers from a lot of government interference and needless regulation that stifles competition between providers. There's a bigger problem in the system as well, associated more with the insurance side of things than with the care itself. I wouldn't trust my employer to choose toppings on my pizza, but in the American system it's the employer who collectively bargains with insurers on behalf of the employees, and I don't think their interests align, but that's a subject for a different thread altogether.

    Regarding Social Security, it is absolutely set to go broke because it's a "self-funding" system - it has to operate on an income that exceeds expenditure in order to operate. With a decline in birthrate and the increase of lifespan Social Security recipients are more numerous than projected and withdraw more funds than they've been allotted when they entered the pool. The trust fund for disability and retirements is expected to run out by 2034-2035, the system will be able to sustain itself until around 2090 at which point it will end up in the same situation as in the 1980's - the program will have to be shored up, the government will have to issue more bonds and the funding mechanism will have to be changed, to the detriment of the newly enrolled. I'm not in the habit of "conceding" things I'm objectively right about, the numbers don't lie, but that's also a subject for another thread.

    EDIT: Just figured I would add a source, since this seems to be a newsflash for some. Social Security expenditure is on the verge of exceeding income, that's projected to happen in 2020, at which point the program will rapidly fall off a cliff. Expect cuts, higher taxation and other shenanigans in the near future.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/soc...benefits-track-reduced-2035/story?id=62557507
     
  15. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    When Ocasio Cortez said conditions are like holocaust concentration camps many holocaust survivors and anti defamation leagues came after her criticizing her.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.jt...-controversial-concentration-camp-comment/amp



    People said that rhetoric like this comparing to the holocaust is dangerous because some crazy psycho would come along and guess what happened? An Antifa guy fire bombs an Ice facility and get shot and killed.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...sen-antifa-detention-centre-a9004131.html?amp
     
  16. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    You always have the option to request it at a point of entry. 9 times out of 10 the application will be rejected, but I imagine it's a superior alternative to incarceration. The whole process definitely needs to be streamlined, so it's a matter of weighing priorities. The priority for the current administration is patching up the border first and dealing with methods of entry later, which is one way to approach this. There's no "good" way that I can think of, not in the current adversarial atmosphere.
     
  17. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    1. Plenty of groups have come out supporting AOC's comparisons.
    2. Many of those who have been critical of AOC's comments have also been very critical of the detention camps.
    3. While the detention camps a very different from concentration camps, the comparisons are fair.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Respectfully, that's a false narrative used to make people feel better about what's going on. Many people are illegally being turned away without going through the application procedures. Some are even told to come back another day over and over again.
     
  18. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Minus the whole "purposeful extermination" aspect of concentration camps, sure, it's an apt comparison, applicable to any detention center, from juvies to prisons. My question is as follows - what do you expect border security to do better? It's a fairly simple question you should have no problems answering, what would be a satisfactory resolution of the problem to you? Keep in mind that the solution must operate in accordance with pre-existing law.

    It's also the official procedure. Perhaps border patrol agents would have more time to deal with those queries if they had more resources and didn't have to deal with as many illegal crossings. If only there was some solution to those two problems, I can't imagine what it could be though.
     
  19. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    The priority for the current administration is criminalizing all immigration. If their priority was to encourage legal immigration, they would've already provided a better means to legally immigrate. There's no reason that couldn't be accomplished while simultaneously working to patch security holes/physical holes in the existing barriers on the border. It's completely different departments/personnel that deal with each of these things.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 15, 2019
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  20. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    I don’t get it. Why would they want to come to this country? Conditions are so bad for U.S. workers, can’t even get a $15 an hour and have to work multiple jobs. But migrants from all over the world want to come into a Trumps racist country.

    We don’t even have universal health care. And they exploit the common person with overly high medical prices. Black and brown people are discriminated against and locked up. Women are paid less. And school shootings with our gun crazy country. We have a homeless crisis, a growing gap between rich and poor, we are becoming third world.


    The migrants don’t know any better we must warn them.
     
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