The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    You should look into the conditions some of the asylum seekers are fleeing.

    The history of how the United States caused a lot of those issues is also very interesting.
     
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  2. Rolf12

    Rolf12 Member

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    That is some serious stuff. Well written. And may the trend turn...
     
  3. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    And yet hundreds of thousands of people travel to and from America every year without any issues. Like I said earlier, the Trump administration's winning ticket for 2016 was a harsher stance on immigration. This manifested itself in reality via Jeff Session's zero tolerance policy which treats each and every illegal crossing at the border as a prosecutable criminal offense, and not a civil offense as it used to be the case. Since the adults are now charged with a crime and the children are obviously not, in order to comply with previous legal precedent, including the Flores agreement, they were separated from families and put either in foster care or in detention centers where they're cared for to the best of border security's abilities. There is nothing more and nothing less to it, and imputing motives to this policy isn't going to help the two sides find common ground. Claiming that Trump sat down one day with his Council of Evil and decided that going forward he'll start putting kids in cages for his amusement is a disingenuous tactic used by people with ulterior motives who are less interested in the well-being of the children in question and more interested in doing as much damage to the administration as possible, which is why I will continue to relentlessly mock it. Does it disincentivize illegal migration? I'm sure it does, but it's a byproduct of existing legislation, intentional or not. Ultimately, illegal entry is a crime, that's how the cookie crumbles. Just because law enforcement was lenient about this in the past doesn't mean they would always be, or that they should be. It's sad to see the poor conditions in those centers, but they can only improve if we throw money at the border, which the Democrats refuse to go along with. This is a bipartisan issue with no bipartisan support, at least that's how I see it. The border does need to be patched, and unless there is unilateral support for both tackling immigration policy and increasing border security, which entails funding, it's just not going to work out.
     
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  4. morvoran

    morvoran GBAtemp Regular

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    Drinking leftist tears...Yummy!
    To add onto this, putting kids in cages was a part of the Obama "aka the deporter in Chief" administration. People seem to always forget or ignore that fact. A couple days ago, Democrats used pictures of illegals in fenced areas from Obama's time in office for some tweets about their "kids in cages" hearing to fight against Trump and had removed them twice.
     
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  5. depaul

    depaul GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    In reality, most of those called "developing countries" have rich natural resources and lower living costs. If only they could improve their governance system (economy, less corruption...) everyone could live very happily there without even having to immigrate.
     
    Last edited by depaul, Jul 15, 2019
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  6. Subtle Demise

    Subtle Demise h

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    You know what would help? First, end the reliance on the welfare state. Next, legalize and regulate recreational drug use, sale, and manufacture. This would give cartel members ans smugglers far less incentive to cross the border.

    The government can also punish industries more harshly that utilize illegal labor (Meat packers, travelling amusement park companies, etc.). There are so many things we can try before we build a super expensive wall. Besides, I feel like a wall would do a better job keeping people in than it would keeping them out. I would like my family to be able to flee in the event that martial law and civil war breaks out while I can stay and fight without endangering them.
     
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  7. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    This Representative who has lots of experience with the border issue, what he says is well said, it’s emotional but well said.


    Cartels know about the immigration loopholes and are exploiting it pretending to be a family to smuggle people in. Exploiting catch and release that was under the previous administrations, that Obama failed to close. Cartels are using this to bring cheap labor workers to the U.S. to work them like slaves. Republican business owners say tighten borders while exploiting illegals for cheap labor. They are trying to close these loop holes so that cartels won’t abuse this and to protect people but they call those people racist for trying to restrict immigration access. And they write this off as not common. And they refuse to tighten the boarder to stop these things so that illegals won’t be exploited because of political party bickering.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...n-trafficking-crisis-texas-lawmaker-says/amp/



    These facilities lack resources and staff. The Agents are overwhelmed and exhausted. Exhausted working in the field over 100 degrees, exhausted working 10 hr shifts processing hundreds of illegals, exhausted that countless of mothers and fathers saying their child is sick and needs attention,


    Working in a overcrowded facility that can hold only 300 detainees but is now holding 1,200, that came there because of immigration loopholes that brought them there in the first place,


    Obama had 760 million dollars for Ice to deal with migrants, but they can’t even get 4.5 billion for Trump without controversy because Democrats and Ocasio Cortez keep blocking him. They don’t trust him they say, so they rather not even have any attempt to fund it at all because they don’t trust him. Then they say money is not the issue, workers and Trump are just horrible people and child murderers.



    Workers are seeing horrible things of decomposing bodies and people left behind by cartels because of an injury, the workers should go home and unwind to relax after seeing these things, they are doing their best with the limited resources they have. But instead they get shitted on by Media and by politicians and social media calling them shitty people, a murderer of kids, of running concentration camps and gas chambers. While they blocking funding for migrants and then blaming them for the horrible underfunded conditions and refusing to tighten immigration loopholes. They stand near chain linked fences taking pictures, making up hyperbole about these facilites, just to get clicks, twitter followers and political support.

    Imagine how a worker would feel after going through all this trying their best with the limited stuff they have then gets constantly shitted on.




     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 15, 2019
  8. notimp

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    Issue here is, that people will always game a system.

    Its expected. Its not "and this is the reason, why we need to make everything good again", no - all societal systems (think checks and balances) are there to coutneract, to make this work.

    The concept of the "just and unfaltering sheriff type" also was mostly a TV serials invention of the 50s.

    People will always say "lets have more law and order" - but the reality is, that you'll never get it with lets say - doing everything that border patrol agent could come up with.

    Simply put "but people will game systems" can never be a reason to not lets say put up a policy and trying your best to enact it. Or a reason why it would never work.

    To separate the world in good and bad, and just and unjust - works in Disney movies - but mostly not on the real world. Think also - politics is compromise. The border agent is an expert on his field. But the problem is larger.

    Wall might help border control agent most (or not - didnt watch video yet), but the problem is larger.

    (This is basically explaining, why you need 'management', or politicians.. ;))
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jul 15, 2019
  9. invaderyoyo

    invaderyoyo invader

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    If we're handing them our jobs, I'd argue they'd be stupid to refuse them. If you want to get to the root of the problem you have to look at this from their perspective.

    First off, there is no legal way for them to immigrate without immediate family members who are already citizens. So you can't just yell "do it legally like my grandparents!".

    Remember that these people are living in extreme poverty so they're desperate for any improvement.

    The chances of being caught are small. The vast majority make it through fine, but a few do get caught and there are horror stories where people die due to lack of preparation. It's rare, though.

    Finding a job isn't that tough. They have friends or family members that can point them in the right direction.

    It's almost a guarantee that their life and their children's lives will improve.

    Really, they'd almost be stupid not to attempt the crossing. The obvious solutions are to take away their incentive to cross or provide a path to legal immigration, however we're not doing that. Instead people want to pour money into border security.

    The reward far outweighs the risk for them.
     
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  10. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    US tourism is way down under Trump, so is immigration from countries that aren't in crisis. But yeah, the administration has no problem letting white people into the country, that's not something you really needed to clarify.

    His "winning ticket" was the Southern Strategy, same as it's been for Republicans for decades. Only difference is that Trump uses a bullhorn instead of a dog whistle, and he was up against the worst candidate the Democrats could've possibly picked. I fear we'll shoot ourselves in the foot again by nominating Biden, but only time will tell.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 15, 2019
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  11. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    It will be interesting to see who's going to take the seat, Trump or one of the 3,568,785 Democratic candidates. I myself am quite happy that the base is split, it always makes for funny debates.
     
  12. brunocar

    brunocar GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    im from argentina, can confirm :/
     
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  13. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    It's a very different political landscape than it was 10-20 years ago. Moderates will vote for a progressive, progressives won't vote for a moderate. Both 2016 and 2018 proved this to be true for Democrats. Trump certainly didn't win by trying to appeal to moderates or independents, either.
     
  14. zomborg

    zomborg Makin Temp great again

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    Here is a short video clip. This is a clip of President Trump giving sound advice to those who are displeased, unsatisfied or angry about the current political climate, policy decisions by our current administration or the status quo. While not aimed directly at those who are disgruntled over the so called "concentration camp" situation, I think it aptly applies to you as well.

     
  15. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    The opposite is true. Anybody who wants to live in an all-white ethnostate needs to move to Russia already, because America has never been, and never will be that. It's fucking ridiculous that we're still dealing with 1950s-style racism in 2019.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jul 16, 2019
  16. luisedgarf

    luisedgarf Member

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    If you want to start looking for culprits, you can start blaming Hollywood and its tendency to glorify the American way of life. They are the ones who, partly because of patriotic pride and partly because of U.S. government propaganda, are the ones who promote the supposed values of American society and its supposed superiority over all others. I am surprised that Americans still have the nerve to complain about how many people want to go and live in their country, considering how much the U.S. government spends to promote their country and say how beautiful and wonderful America is.

    However, if a nation dares to ban an American film for the simple reason of promoting its culture with impunity, it could receive economic sanctions from the American government, something that has already happened to a lesser extent in some countries that are supposed to be allies of the U.S. for trying to limit the corrosive impact that American culture has on their own countries.
     
  17. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I think you're wrong about that, depending on your definition of "moderate". It's not that appealing to the moderates doesn't win elections anymore, rather it's the extreme ends that get amplified so much that you don't get to hear what moderates think anymore. In the era of social media and ideological brownie points the only people you see are caricatures of either side, the moderates don't get involved in the mud slinging, or they pretend to be one or the other for personal reasons and only manifest their true beliefs at the voting booth.
     
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  18. stanleyopar2000

    stanleyopar2000 Dirty Weeb ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    It's the "fuck you got mine" mentality. No one knows what it's like to go through something like that, so they don't care and only think of themselves.
     
    Last edited by stanleyopar2000, Jul 16, 2019
  19. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    They are a gift that keeps on giving. They are trying to pass a house resolution to condemn Trumps tweets.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/house/453090-pelosi-announces-house-resolution-to-condemn-trump-comments?amp



    So basically this is how it goes.
    “Do we all condemn Trumps tweets”
    “yes we do”
    “Ok, that is all thank you for you time”


    Trump is playing them, and they fell for it. He knows how to distract them and play them.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 16, 2019
  20. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Or, alternatively, everyone is familiar with the "my dog ate my homework" mentality and thus is skeptical of any asylum seeker that was caught crossing the border illegally. It can't be considered a "get out of jail" card, you don't get to claim asylum just because you were caught. Some sensible restrictions must apply here.
     
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