The Illegal Immigration Non-Crisis in the USA

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    Yes. That's not the child separation policy we are talking about.
     
  2. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Oh, so families were separated before Trump came along, and his policy is just harsher, as advertised during his 2016 run? It's beginning to look a whole lot like the "Well yes, but actually no" meme. Just to be clear, nobody wants to separate families, but what's the more humane alternative? Would you prefer if they were just turned around at the border and asked to venture back into the wilderness with guns pointed at them? Or would you prefer if we at least tried to provide them with humane living conditions until the adults at fault can be processed accordingly and either prosecuted or granted asylum? I ask that because an Open Borders policy is a non-starter, and that's, non-negotiable, so in your parlance, you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
     
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  3. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    That official is wrong. U.S. law and international treaties guarantee refugees a way to seek asylum, regardless of how they entered the country.
     
  4. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Child separation may be traumatic. But if a native citizen commits a crime and goes to jail who fault is it? The person committing the crime or the people throwing them in jail?

    Separation was recommend to protect them from sexual assault.

    Condition are overcrowded and conditions are not properly funded. The officials that commit crimes to children are of their own choice and no way the fault of Trumps administration. The administration can do what they can to levitate the issue, but you can’t stop all crime, just like you can’t stop all murderers. So how much can you blame him for conditions or due to lack of funding.
     
  5. grind3r4rlz

    grind3r4rlz Banned

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    The way to go about things if you get happen to get caught illegally crossing the border is to claim asylum. If you get caught that's your best option. This is the "illegal" way of claiming asylum and there's the also the "legal" way you mentioned. It's a loophole that needs to be closed. The people who are crossing the border illegally never intended to get caught and are only using it as a last resort.

    Their intentions were to make it to a sanctuary city and then take advantage of all of the resources the Liberals are taking from tax paying citizens and handing to them. They are just like any other criminal who gets caught in the act of committing a crime. There's not much difference when it comes to how they respond when they get apprehended. I'm sure this method is being taught to them by the people who support their illegal activities.
     
  6. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    The child separation policy is a Trump policy that didn't exist before Trump. Saying "yeah, but children were sometimes separated from their parents if they were in danger" isn't the family separation policy. Please don't confuse the two.

    The Trump adminstration wants to separate children purely as a disincentive, and even if they didn't want to, they don't have to.

    There is no defense for this policy, evidence by the people here struggling and failing to defend it without lies.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    The child separation policy has nothing to do with protecting people from sexual assault. In fact, it allegedly led to sexual assault in some cases.

    Either do more research or stop lying.
     
  7. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    It wants it so bad that it stopped it by Executive Order on June 20th. Once again, if the adults are to be prosecuted for illegal entry, the children must be separated from them de facto in order to comply with the Flores settlement. Something's got to give, and you don't seem to have an alternative solution, so that's a dead end in this discussion.
    Yes and no. Immigrants can apply for asylum regardless of whether they entered via a port of entry or not, but there are some additional conditions in terms of eligibility. It's also worth noting that asylum is not equivalent to citizenship and it can be terminated without judicial review.

    http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1158&num=0&edition=prelim#0-0-0-192
     
  8. grind3r4rlz

    grind3r4rlz Banned

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    I support separating the children from the adults to protect the children. The same thing happens if you break the law if you're a citizen. Your kids don't come with you to prison. Yeah, let's start encouraging that next or better yet just do away with prisons and decriminalize crime. Criminals should be given less rights not more especially if they aren't citizens of our country. The United States of America comes first!

    I don't find not linking to any sort of article to link that that goes along with my point of view making me right or wrong. It's not like simply linking to a 3rd party source makes my claim valid or invalid as with this issue as it's not about facts just about how you think it should be done. There's no right or wrong answer and it's the way I see things and that's good enough for me. I trust my own judgement and I definitionally don't trust Liberal snakes.
     
  9. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    1. That was in response to backlash.
    2. The motives behind the child separation policy were explicitly stated.
    3. Child separation has illegally continued.
    Did you not know this?

    1. That makes many of them legal asylum seekers.
    2. Whether or not they're illegal asylum seekers does not change legal limits on how long they're allowed to be detained.
    3. It's not excuse for the detainment conditions they're receiving under the Trump administration.
    4. Children are dying.
     
  10. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    This new rule just entered last year says they can’t enter other then the ports of entry.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1934635002
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jul 15, 2019
  11. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    We are not talking about separating children to protect them from bad adults. We are talking about the separation of just about every child from every family in order to disincentivize illegal immigration.
     
  12. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    The Ice Official said it was for child protection im not lying.
     
  13. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    More "think of the children", thanks for that. I'm well-aware of why the order was signed, it was signed for the same reason why this conversation persists. Your attempts at emotional manipulation are futile, children will continue to suffer until there's a feasible solution to the border issue, and unfortunately it's one of those problems that you have to throw money at until it's fixed. You can tell me that "children are dying" until you're blue in the face, that won't make detention centers any less underfunded and overcrowded, only stronger border security and a higher budget can help with that.
     
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  14. grind3r4rlz

    grind3r4rlz Banned

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    I'd want protection from my own parents if they dragged me across hundreds of miles without adequate food, water, housing and toothpaste to illegally enter a country. I'd beg for it. If any USA citizen would do that to their own children they'd have them taken away. Every single illegal immigrant regardless if they are seeking asylum through legal means are still criminals for illegally crossing the border and should be treated as such.

    There's also no way to tell if the adults they are with, that's if they are with any adults have any sort of criminal record other then the one they just created by illegally entering the country. The policy just makes sense, that's why the Liberals hate it. It's also a symptom of the problem. Why not focus on killing the cancer and not just treating the side effects? That's a pretty simple answer for Liberals too. Liberals need votes. They crave power and are using less fortune people as pawns. I say we send ICE after the Liberals after they're done deporting the illegals.
     
  15. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    how some people seem to see it is, if i take my kid with me to rob a bank i should be free to walk away if i get caught, if someone setup that system you would suddenly get a lot more people actively choosing to take their kids along with them to rob banks, stripping away that loophole to "dissisentivize" people dragging their kids along to dangerous criminal activities isn't a bad idea, if you don't want people committing certain crimes, you can't start adding loopholes that encourage people to take kids along with them on a dangerous activity

    i'm sorry but if someone thinks its a great idea to take their small children with them on a dangerous activity, i'm pretty sure under any other circumstance removing the child from their "care" would be a typical response
     
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  16. Minox

    Minox Thanks for the fish

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    Nice try cots.
     
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  17. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Maybe they shouldn't travel across the dangerous border with young children.
    You're not thinking of the children enough, why would you assume that they're being used as legal meat-shields by adults who have chosen to enter the country illegally? Who would do such a thing? Makes no sense to me.
     
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  18. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    With an article I linked earlier some people even fake families to claim asylum.

    Kids should not be punished for the crimes of the parents. And they use kids to manipulate the situation.

    Native citizens are separated from their kids when they commit crimes and the same was going to happen with illegal immigrants.
     
  19. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Honk honk, cue the Benny Hill theme song!
     
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  20. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend

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    1. The rule change was after the full swing of the Trump child separation policy, so it's largely irrelevant to that specific issue.
    2. It doesn't affect many asylum seekers.
    3. It arguably doesn't affect any asylum seekers, but that's a matter for the courts.
    4. It is illegal to block the ability to seek asylum at ports of entry, which is what's happening.
    5. The rule change has no bearing on the laws being broken with regard to detaination time, conditions, etc.
    6. Children are still dying, regardless of the rule.
    That's objectively false. This has nothing to do with child protection.

    My post had a lot more to say than "think of the children," including very specific facts about the law.

    They admitted the policy and the harm it caused served the purpose of deterring illegal immigration.

    Acknowledging the plights and children (and adults) at the border isn't "emotional manipulation." They are important issues. If you want to say, "I don't care about the children and adults at the border," be my guest. Until then, you can't justifiably criticize me bringing it up as emotional manipulation.

    Children will continue to suffer until there's a different administration that, among other things, doesn't see suffering as a deterrent that should be used as such.

    Objectively, money is not the cause of the deplorable detainment conditions. It's definitely not the cause of the child separation policy.

    1. Underfunding is not the problem.
    2. Overcrowding is one of many problems.
    3. Telling you that children are dying might cause you (if you were an American) to vote for politicians who will actually fix the problem, since that is what it takes.

    Whether or not we agree that border security is important, it's irrelevant to detaination conditions, child-separation, etc. And, as I said earlier in this post, the budget is not the issue.

    I suggest you research why asylum seekers are fleeing their homes. The "dangerous conditions" part is rare, and it usually exists out of a desperate need. If seeking asylum were actually doable at ports of entry and not being mostly blocked by the Trump administration, these dangerous treks wouldn't happen. In other words, illegal border crossing by asylum seekers, including the dangerous ones, are the fault of the Trump administration.

    That's a minority.

    1. That's what the Trump administration is doing to kids.
    2. Aside from crossing the border illegal, the vast majority aren't criminals.
    3. Many of the asylum seekers are legal asylum seekers.

    1. Aside from crossing the border illegal, the vast majority aren't criminals. We don't separate children from parents for traffic tickets, for example.
    2. Many of the asylum seekers are legal asylum seekers.
    3. The Trump administration had no plan to reunite the families.
    4. The children are being held in deplorable conditions.
    5. Children are dying.
    6. The illegal crossings are often happening because asylum seekers have no way to seek asylum at the ports of entry.
     
    Last edited by Lacius, Jul 15, 2019
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