Should There Be Tougher Gun Laws?

[Sicklyboy]

My take on the matter.

A man can kill another man with anything. That same man can kill a group of people with the same thing and a little sick creativity added to it. Guns just happen to be the most efficient and detached way of going on a murderous rampage, unfortunately.

Take a look at this though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Aside from detonating the explosives in his truck with his Winchester, unless I missed something, no guns were used in this disaster. Furthermore, no guns were used to directly kill another person or group of people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

Again, no guns used, and you can still buy, within reason, all of the materials used.

The guns aren't the issue, at least not the main one. Like I said, you can kill someone with anything and a little creativity. Take away guns, and you're gonna get fertilizer bombs again.

The mentally sick are the issue. Detecting and treating mental illnesses that would cause someone to go on a rampage like that is what, in my opinion, needs to be fixed and improved upon.

Also, it's not like every gun ever used to kill someone is a legal, registered gun. Most rampages like that, sure, may typically use registered guns, but gang violence, where it's just a few guys against another few guys because of the street they're walking on and the color of the shirt they're wearing, those aren't legal. Some might be, but for the most part, they just picked it up off some guy who knows a guy who passed another guy in the street when they were near an alley.

Ad above this post: "Tell congress: Support the 2nd amendment - SIGN PETITION". Great.

 

[Deleted member 318366]

The AR-15 sure is a popular weapon these days http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57559725/popular-ar-15-rifle-at-center-of-gun-control-debate/, its even been pulled from walmarts website http://www.inquisitr.com/444016/bus...from-walmart-website-manufacturer-to-be-sold/ and dicks sporting goods has currently stopped selling it. well for whatever the reason this is going to get gun owners fired up.

 

[Hanafuda]

Another thing I find curious about this situation is that some Americans don't see a problem in building up an arsenal of badly secured weapons in their basement but refuse to close their back door since "they're free to have it open, and if someone enters their house, they can always shoot him/her". If that's the case, how exactly are you working towards securing your family? It's quite paradoxical, really.

Yeah, that's accurate.

 

[Foxi4]

Yeah, that's accurate.

I said some - you can't say that you haven't seen a house with an open back door 12 hours a day, can you? Not to mention that most back doors are 80% glass anyways, so they're not exactly an obstacle. That's just the suburban architecture style - I get it. Doesn't mean that it isn't stupid though.

 

[Redhorse]

I guess all these parents from this new school shot up. forgot about Columbine already.. how could anyone forget that.

Then there is this old addage..."Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." - Author Forgotten, sentiment retained
G-d help 'em all. In addition to gun control, they also need better mental health screening in todays societies, schools, jobs, etc...

My father was a federally licensed gun dealer, but never had a shop. Even though every gun in our home had a safe-key lock on the trigger i never felt any more safe. Most forget the criminal can often use your weapon against you too. Rule #2 in martial arts.

 

[Sicklyboy]

It makes more sense to ban all violence in movies and video games. We wouldn't't want to inspire nut jobs to do anything rash so every bit of entertainment should be screened by a government minder and all violence removed so we can all be safe

And force everyone to watch MLP:FIM, right? After all, friendship, man.

 

[retKHAAAN]

 

[spotanjo3]

It doesnt matter how tougher Gun laws will be.. They will never resolve the issues at all as long as there are corruptions in this evil world. No. It won't work at all no matter what.

 

[retKHAAAN]

It doesnt matter how tougher Gun laws will be.. They will never resolve the issues at all as long as there are corruptions in this evil world. No. It won't work at all no matter what.

Says the guy whose avatar characters have guns for hands...

 

[Hanafuda]

The AR-15 sure is a popular weapon these days http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57559725/popular-ar-15-rifle-at-center-of-gun-control-debate/, its even been pulled from walmarts website http://www.inquisitr.com/444016/bus...from-walmart-website-manufacturer-to-be-sold/ and discks sporting goods has currently stopped selling it. well for whatever the reason this is going to get gun owners fired up.

It is a popular weapon. It is the best selling rifle in the US. Why? It's useful for a wide variety of purposes, it's not monstrously high-powered so it can be handled by just about anyone, you can attach a flashlight easily, you can change the type of sights easily (aperture, scope, reflex red-dot), for the most part you don't have to worry about it rusting, if it has an adjustable stock it can be made to fit different persons, parts are interchangeable and easily replaced, there is a variety of ammo available including special 'frangible' bullets that don't over-penetrate like traditional rifle ammo, etc. etc.

It has the virtue of basic utility. Like a swiss army knife of rifles. And yes, they are popular for hunting of medium sized game, i.e. varmint/pest size. Not so much for deer (not powerful enough) or squirrel (too powerful), which is why you hear mainstream "meat" hunters saying they don't need one.

And, the AR-15 used by the shooter in CT was not an "assault weapon" under Connecticut law, which does have an AWB in place.

It doesn't really matter that Dicks or WalMart stopped selling them from their stores ... if they plan to put them back in inventory later they will. If they intend to make it permanent, they'll just sell them to another retailer.

And in case you're wondering, no ... I don't own one. No particular reason though, other than the expense. I don't buy cheap junk like that Bushmaster, so if I were to get into shooting AR-15 it would take a sizable initial investment. And believe it or not, I'm just not that into guns.

 

[Deleted member 318366]

It is a popular weapon. It is the best selling rifle in the US. Why? It's useful for a wide variety of purposes, it's not monstrously high-powered so it can be handled by just about anyone, you can attach a flashlight easily, you can change the type of sights easily (aperture, scope, reflex red-dot), for the most part you don't have to worry about it rusting, if it has an adjustable stock it can be made to fit different persons, parts are interchangeable and easily replaced, there is a variety of ammo available including special 'frangible' bullets that don't over-penetrate like traditional rifle ammo, etc. etc.

It has the virtue of basic utility. Like a swiss army knife of rifles. And yes, they are popular for hunting of medium sized game, i.e. varmint/pest size. Not so much for deer (not powerful enough) or squirrel (too powerful), which is why you hear mainstream "meat" hunters saying they don't need one.

And, the AR-15 used by the shooter in CT was not an "assault weapon" under Connecticut law, which does have an AWB in place.

It doesn't really matter that Dicks or WalMart stopped selling them from their stores ... if they plan to put them back in inventory later they will. If they intend to make it permanent, they'll just sell them to another retailer.

And in case you're wondering, no ... I don't own one. No particular reason though, other than the expense. I don't buy cheap junk like that Bushmaster, so if I were to get into shooting AR-15 it would take a sizable initial investment. And believe it or not, I'm just not that into guns.

I still wonder why the mother of the shooter bought this specific weapon, was she really in fear of her life?

 

[Qtis]

TL;DR.

I just want to point out the differences in cultures and what is considered the idea behind the firearm laws. I live in Finland, where hunting is a part of the culture in one way or another. Some people may say it's cruel or whatnot, but it's a win-win situation in my opinion because of the following:

a. Deer population grows pretty fast by itself without hunting. If you add hunting to the equation, the populations doesn't grow limitless.
b. It is also regulated by the Finnish government in many ways (area restrictions for hunting (both area and proximity to housing), quotas, etc).
c. You have to have a gun permit before anything else is possible.

On the other hand, Finland has had it's own shootings at different locations (Jokela High School, Kauhajoki Vocational College, etc).
The negative cases I mentioned are mainly done by individual instead of the general population. I don't usually talk about the difference in people, but the cases here have pointed out a few things (especially in my case, since I live only a few miles from Jokela, quite a few of my friends were there during the incident and I've driven through just next to high school pretty much every summer during the last few years because of my summer job):

1. People don't use guns against each other, if the general opinion is against it.
2. There are always "extremists" (hard to find a word in english to describe it without bias and condemnation) that tend to do things regardless of general opinion just to break rules.
3. There are people that do things because it's illegal. (Compared quite a lot to the 2. point in terms of psychology)

Also the following as my personal opinion:

Regardless of the need for a weapon for self defense, no one needs an assault rifle type gun for that. If you really have to defend your house with one (I mean that you don't have a hobby/career regarding them), you are living in the wrong neighborhood. Really. I've yet to see a single situation where I'd need a gun to handle my fights and I've been living by myself for quite a few years. In areas, where there is drug abuse. In areas, where there are more poor people. In areas where there are mainly students. None of the areas have made me even think about carrying a gun around. Neither have all the foreign ares I've visited so far (pretty much every continent).

TL;DR: Guns don't make people kill, but the general opinion and atmosphere does. Changing opinion is just as good as changing laws/regulations/sanctions/etc.

 

[Sicklyboy]

I still wonder why the mother of the shooter chose this specific weapon, was she really in fear of her life?

I mean, in states where it's easier to get a gun permit than others, you might not need a reason to have a gun except to just have it. Maybe she just wanted one *shrug*

My extent with shooting has been fairly limited, consisting of going to the range with my girlfriend and her stepdad and firing off some handguns (.375 shooting .38 specials, Glock 19, Glock 17), and when I was younger, just firing a shotgun (with my dad's supervision) into the distance on my grandparent's farm (I was maybe 9 or 10 when I did that, DAMN did that have a kick back then). I'm 20 now, a pretty big guy, and even those handguns had a big kick to them (likely due to my inexperience with shooting). I can't even imagine what firing something like an AR-15 would be like, control wise.

 

[Qtis]

I mean, in states where it's easier to get a gun permit than others, you might not need a reason to have a gun except to just have it. Maybe she just wanted one *shrug*

My extent with shooting has been fairly limited, consisting of going to the range with my girlfriend and her stepdad and firing off some handguns (.375 shooting .38 specials, Glock 19, Glock 17), and when I was younger, just firing a shotgun (with my dad's supervision) into the distance on my grandparent's farm (I was maybe 9 or 10 when I did that, DAMN did that have a kick back then). I'm 20 now, a pretty big guy, and even those handguns had a big kick to them (likely due to my inexperience with shooting). I can't even imagine what firing something like an AR-15 would be like, control wise.

The best time's I've had with firearms was during my army period. I have to say I liked the target practice, but it was just like you: target practice and the feel of new things (guns). I've been thinking about getting a gun permit just for that sake. (EDIT: I'd never even consider using firearms against another person. Weapons weren't made to be used between neighbor over a fence or whatnot. I don't see reason in using weapons agains innocent civilians in any way).

I just thought about another thing peculiar about Finland. Some (possibly most, I'm not sure about the statistics in general) of the shootings here have been done with weapons not owned by the shooters. The weapons have been held in locked (key or code) lockers which have been designed to keep outsiders away from them. IF you take this into account, what is the responsibility of the person who owns the weapon(s) vs the person who fires the weapon(s) vs the company that makes the lockers? Not that simple.

 

[Hanafuda]

I still wonder why the mother of the shooter bought this specific weapon, was she really in fear of her life?

You want a guess? I read that she got into guns after her divorce in 2009. Maybe she was trying to catch a new man. Seriously. I'm 45 years old ... it's not unusual for guys my age to see middle-aged women showing up at the scene of "manly" hobbies after they get divorced so they can expose themselves to a variety of new prospects. Who knows? I'm not saying this was something she was necessarily conscious of doing as a choice ... I think of it more in terms of instinct. Poker night, gun range, bowling alley ... keep your eyes peeled for 40-something chicks having fun with men.

Or maybe she was just genuinely a gun nut. There are millions of those all over the place who never hurt a fly.

Or maybe a salesman talked her into it.

 

[BlueStar]

If there was a mass government "buyback" of guns in the USA, who do you think would be turning theirs in? The people least likely to commit crimes, or the people most likely? Keep in mind there is no federal "registration" system here (a few states have this, but not most), so there's no way of knowing who's got what.

Well surely freedom lovin' upstandin' NRA will members wouldn't and criminal Obama lovin' scum would?

The simple answer is that most of the people who either snap and go crackers don't consider themselves to be criminals 6 months before the fact and neither do people whose guns may be taken by ne'erdowells. And of course we get back to the question of what happened in Australia. Are Americans really that much more horrible a people that a buyback wouldn't have the same affect? Why? Most of the arguments against the reality of what actually happens when gun controls are tightened in other countries seems to boil down to 'Yeah, but we're all horrible cunts over here'

 

[BlueStar]

As for the mother of the shooter, she was one of these survivalist pillocks, sure the world was going to end and she had to be armed to the teeth to be prepared for it. And ironically, the weapons she bought, the doomsday training she gave her son, were what ended the world for her.

 

[Deleted member 318366]

You want a guess? I read that she got into guns after her divorce in 2009. Maybe she was trying to catch a new man. Seriously. I'm 45 years old ... it's not unusual for guys my age to see middle-aged women showing up at the scene of "manly" hobbies after they get divorced so they can expose themselves to a variety of new prospects. Who knows? I'm not saying this was something she was necessarily conscious of doing as a choice ... I think of it more in terms of instinct. Poker night, gun range, bowling alley ... keep your eyes peeled for 40-something chicks having fun with men.

Or maybe she was just genuinely a gun nut. There are millions of those all over the place who never hurt a fly.

Or maybe a salesman talked her into it.

Lol i can't wait to see what the husband has to say, i bet only he and the brother ryan lanza can answer all the questions.

 

[BlueStar]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. America is the only western country with such lax gun laws, it's the only western country where once every 12 months someone picks up someone's legally obtained weapon and tries to slaughter as many people as possible with it. You can say "Oh, well, if only we had 150 guns per 100 people rather than 90 guns per 100 people maybe someone could have shot them before they killed the 8th person" but we'll never know. What we do know for a fact is that restricting gun ownership lowers crime, lowers murders and lowers chaos. Shame that there's so many manchild rambo fantasists who put their own personal paranoia above the safety of others.

I saw one of the print adverts for the Bushmaster used in the shooting recently, with the caption "CONSIDER YOUR MAN CARD REISSUED" It's not really any wonder that all these people with small dick syndrome feel the need to overcompensate with a pretend M16.

 

[Sicklyboy]

[...] You can say "Oh, well, if only we had 150 guns per 100 people rather than 90 guns per 100 people maybe someone could have shot them before they killed the 8th person" but we'll never know. [...]

What I got thinking of this whole situation with the recent school shooting, which is in a bit related to that statement... I don't know how things are in other parts of the world, but in most, if not all of the 'States, we have what's called a School Resource Officer, an on-duty and armed police officer who is stationed in the school every day from before students get there till after they leave. Thing is, we only have them in Jr. High/High School (in my area, at least). Elementary schools are left more or less without any sort of law enforcement. Why doesn't every school have an SRO (or more than one) on duty? I'm not saying that having a police officer in the school would have stopped the shooting, but given the threat and how one would have reacted, the impact could have been... reduced, if you will.

I saw one of the print adverts for the Bushmaster used in the shooting recently, with the caption "CONSIDER YOUR MAN CARD REISSUED" It's not really any wonder that all these people with small dick syndrome feel the need to overcompensate with a pretend M16.

Nah man. Here, the guys with small dick syndrome drive Ford pickups.

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2006/12/f650.jpg

http://image.8-lug.com/f/32880666/1005_8l_09+LNO_jr_memorial_show_2009+lifted_ford_f350.jpg