Hacking Potential reason for random errors on N3DS after downgrading?

Krude

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Small addendum to the list i made above: I made that list from my 9.0 EmuNAND instead of SysNAND (oops), but all that changes is that i installed the most recent NVER for NNID purposes.
So just, uh, pretend that title 000400DB20016102 says it's version 0x140, lol, it's otherwise identical to my SysNAND.
 

Aroth

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Small addendum to the list i made above: I made that list from my 9.0 EmuNAND instead of SysNAND (oops), but all that changes is that i installed the most recent NVER for NNID purposes.
So just, uh, pretend that title 000400DB20016102 says it's version 0x140, lol, it's otherwise identical to my SysNAND.

Good to know, thanks.
 

Aroth

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I have a 9.0.0-20U nand.bin for my older N3DS (busted now).
Is there a way to read the title list from it?

You need a nand.fat16.xorpad file to decrypt it. I have no idea if that xorpad is console unique. If you have another hackable USA N3DS, try generating a nand xorpad and decrypting it. If you can, please check to see if it contains \title\00040030\00009E03\
 

Pacman`

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Now I see what you meant by keep trying...
I kept trying all evening.

Fortunately, I found this:
First time it started installing, it crashed right after only 8 or so... got a semi-brick haha.
Good thing I read about Recovery. So I had to go from 9.9.0 to 10.3.0 dammit.

Then it took a while before the second time it started installing,... this time it installed all 104 titles (yes, I decided to include Aroth's twins).
Works just like a new 9.2.0 now.

Most of the time, the screen was black and I had to power down. On a few occasions, I got the "Failed to get CIA file info" error.
When I got that a few times, I used the trick from that video, deleting the dbs folder and copying the one with empty files and doing the reset in Settings.
Then, I'd try the ftBRONY trick right after and bam! it finally worked.
 

ccfman2004

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Question about sysUpdater. I know the original version that included the downgrade code deleted all titles from Nand before installing the files in the updates folder. Does the latest version still do this or what exactly does it do when downgrading. I don't understand C to know what is going on. I have an N3DS with 9.4 on it so the 2 files that are not in the pack but have been updated since 9.3 would still have the latest version as of 9.2. Does sysUpdater keep any titles that are not present in the 9.2 update pack or does it delete them. If it keeps them I shouldn't have to worry about those 2 titles since my N3DS has the latest versions as of 9.2

Also sysUpdater does some weird stuff. First time I tried I got a main.cpp error. Second time I tried, sysUpdater did nothing.
 

Aroth

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Question about sysUpdater. I know the original version that included the downgrade code deleted all titles from Nand before installing the files in the updates folder. Does the latest version still do this or what exactly does it do when downgrading. I don't understand C to know what is going on. I have an N3DS with 9.4 on it so the 2 files that are not in the pack but have been updated since 9.3 would still have the latest version as of 9.2. Does sysUpdater keep any titles that are not present in the 9.2 update pack or does it delete them. If it keeps them I shouldn't have to worry about those 2 titles since my N3DS has the latest versions as of 9.2

Also sysUpdater does some weird stuff. First time I tried I got a main.cpp error. Second time I tried, sysUpdater did nothing.

It only deletes titles that it sees in the updates folder.

That said, the titles in question were updated in 9.5 and 9.6, respectively, so you are safe to just use the regular update package.
 

ccfman2004

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It only deletes titles that it sees in the updates folder.

That said, the titles in question were updated in 9.5 and 9.6, respectively, so you are safe to just use the regular update package.
If that's the case should I delete title 0004013820000003 so that it doesn't touch SAFE MODE FIRM so I can hit recovery mode just in case since it hasn't been updated in 9.4?
 

Aroth

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If that's the case should I delete title 0004013820000003 so that it doesn't touch SAFE MODE FIRM so I can hit recovery mode just in case since it hasn't been updated in 9.4?

Uh, you kinda need it to downgrade ALL of the files.

edit:

My understanding is that it will not bother installing files that match the currently installed versions. It loads the list of files and grabs version and title data, then compares it to the installed ones. If the installed version is higher, it deletes it and installs the new one, if the version is the same, it SHOULD ignore it.
 
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ccfman2004

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Uh, you kinda need it to downgrade ALL of the files.

edit:

My understanding is that it will not bother installing files that match the currently installed versions. It loads the list of files and grabs version and title data, then compares it to the installed ones. If the installed version is higher, it deletes it and installs the new one, if the version is the same, it SHOULD ignore it.
The SAFE MODE FIRM title has not been updated between 9.0 and 9.4.

I still can't get sysUpdater to work.

Code:
Getting CIA file informations...

titleException:
main.cpp:148: Result: 0xD900182F
Failed to get CIA file info!

Tried SafeSystemUpdate which checks all CIAs to make sure they are valid with MD5 checks. The downgrading proceeded until the system spat out "A System Error has occurred." I almost crapped in my pants. I then turned the system off and then on. First the backlights came on which was a good sign since on systems that were bricked the backlight didn't come on. Then I was greeted to the Home Screen.

The question is, is there a way to check to make sure all system files are valid and present?
 
Last edited by ccfman2004,

SomeGamer

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So if I have a European Old and a New 3DS, what titles should I remove / replace from what update pack to fully make my downgrade clean?
(Sorry for asking, I didn't see anything about it in the OP.)
 

Pacman`

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So, I just tried ReiNand 3.0 on it and everything works like it should
Thanx Aroth for your devotion and insight.

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot,... thanx to Rei for his great CFW :D
 
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Ikki Barri

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That file is the amiibo settings app, and was updated in 9.6 iirc so you have a newer version installed already probably.



Did you flash a NAND or just downgrade with an "upgrade/downgrade cia package?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Oh, I think both - I flashed a downgraded NAND and that's maybe what caused the error! I downgraded my legit console using sysupdater to enable copying of the nand on 9.2 and extraction of fat16 xorpad. Upgraded the console to 10.3 again and performed system transfer. Then I reflashed the 9.2 NAND using Gateway for testing, then stripped out NNID (emunandfat16tool) and reflashed the now NNIDless 9.2, cloned the sysNAND into emunand with emunand9, reformatted the sysnand, updated the emunand with 9.5 cia package installed with BBM (it worked when I removed that cia). There may have been an easier way, but I'm really not that technical and pretty astonished that it worked at all.


Incidentally, I think it may have allowed the NNID on 2 consoles simultaneously (both consoles connected to eshop using NNID - tested one at a time), but I didn't want to risk a ban and anyway I only wanted my streetpass data and puzzle panels, nothing more. Streetpass data showed up fine once I'd copied the save extracted with savedatafiler.
 

Captain Skank

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But could that instability also be causing a downgrade that the updater claims is successful but fails to properly boot save for recovery mode? I'll be honest, it's a stretch, but I don't want to have to format the 3DS like everyone else with my issue did. I'm a tad desperate.
Hmm, does a system format delete actual titles? Because if it doesn't, I wonder if any of this would help with the message I always get after downgrading on an O3DS: "An error has occurred. Hold the POWER button [...]"
 
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Aroth

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Hmm, does a system format delete actual titles?

My understanding of a system format is that it will reset a few files like titles.db, tickets.db, and moveable.sed to default states as if the console was new. In addition it clears any and all settings and profile data, as well as generating a new unique console ID and keyY for encrypting the contents of "sd:\Nintendo 3DS\"

This effectively deletes any installed game/app titles, as well as updates and dlc for those titles. It does not, however, delete any system titles from the NAND itself.
 

Captain Skank

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Then I guess I'm stuck, because I doubt that stuff can be messed with manually. I wish I had another 3DS to do a system transfer to, THEN format.
 

Aroth

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Then I guess I'm stuck, because I doubt that stuff can be messed with manually. I wish I had another 3DS to do a system transfer to, THEN format.

Assuming the downgrade completes successfully, O3DS systems should not have the problem that arises with N3DS systems. This is due to the nature of how updates are handled on the 3DS system. Essentially all updates are cumulative. Each and every update package includes all updates that were done previously as well. The problem with the N3DS is that because it shipped with updated versions of almost every titled, many of them are not included in further updates because they were already up to date. This is why the N3DS 9.0 package has 102 titles, while the O3DS package has over 120.

Basically trying to actually downgrade a N3DS to 9.0 or 9.2 with an update package is effectively the same thing as trying to downgrade an O3DS to 2.0. It is not just a matter of installing older versions, there are also titles that don't belong.

The best way I can think of to describe it is like this:

You have a device that ships new with a total of 10 programs installed. The first update package (2.0) installs 4 titles. 3 of these are updates and the 4th installs an 11th program as well. The second update (3.0) contains 10 titles. Of these, 4 are new titles, bringing the system total to 15, and another 2 are updates to the 1.0 versions. The remaining 4 are the exact same as the previous update. They had to be included though or users would have to install 2.0 and THEN 3.0.

Now lets say a user wanted to downgrade their device back to its 2.0 state. They can't just reinstall the 2.0 update and call it a day, because 3.0 introduced 4 brand new titles that were not there in 2.0.

So you begin to see where problems arise?

Now lets take it a step further and release a hardware revision of the device. It ships with the 3.0 updated titles already installed, plus a few of them are specially written for the hardware revision. Then you release a 4.0 update. This update does nothing more than update 2 existing titles. No new ones are added. Because of the hardware revision that required unique versions of some titles, you have to release two separate update packages. But you also know that the new hardware already has the 3.0 versions, so that package only gets the 2 titles that need updating, while the old hardware gets a package with every title that has been updated.

This is what has happened with the N3DS. The earliest factory revision of the N3DS shipped with 8.1 iirc (also only in Japan, but that's irrelevant), so when 9.0 was released, the N3DS package ONLY included the titles that got updated from 8.1 to 9.0, where the O3DS package contained a cumulative collection of all titles updated since 2.0.

Now the research I did into the installed title list on a N3DS that shipped with 9.0 show that there are 2 titles that did not get updated in from 9.0 (the first update for the N3DS) but that did get updated later. So now we see why trying to downgrade a N3DS to 9.0/9.2 with JUST an update package is like trying to downgrade an O3DS to 2.0 with JUST an update package. It won't work right.

Now as to why you, with an O3DS, are having problems, I do have an idea. There are a total of 4 titles (if my memory is correct) that were installed to the O3DS with 9.3 that were not present before. They should not cause problems, but I suppose it IS possible they are the root of your problem. I will see if I can track down those title IDs for you, but I may have listed them earlier in the thread. Basically its the nfc/amiibo stuff.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

@Captain Skank

Assuming you region is USA, try uninstalling these titles:

0004013000004002
0004001B00019002
0004003000009E02

If your system is not a USA region system, just let me know what region it is and I will get you the IDs you need to uninstall.
 
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Captain Skank

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First of all, thanks for taking the time to explain and research that. Yes, I'm using a US version, but I'm unaware of any method to uninstall titles on firmware 10.3 (I haven't tried downgrading to anything other than 9.2.0-20U, though—I assume anything lower would be even riskier).
 
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Aroth

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First of all, thanks for taking the time to explain and research that. Yes, I'm using a US version, but I'm unaware of any method to uninstall titles on firmware 10.3 (I haven't tried downgrading to anything other than 9.2.0-20U, though—I assume something even lower would be even riskier).

It probably would tbh.

So you can't even load the system after downgrading? It just gives the error message when you try and boot afterwards?
 

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