Isn't it hypocritical to force people to take jobs while unemployed?

[Deleted member 586536]

For frame of context. Most of the strongest people against socialism or communism. (as a reminder i am an anarcho communist. Stalin/Lennism can go to hell) State that communism selects your job, and you have no control.... (even though that's usually lennism/authoritarian communism)
Meanwhile in our society in the United States those same people are essentially doing the exact thing they criticize.
where minimum wage is definitely not enough for rent, electric and utilizes, car insurance, food, and internet, oh and also health insurance and supposed to have savings.
and many companies still pay a below living wage/near or at minimum wage. The government is now forcing people who are on unemployment for any reason, to take the next immediate job or loose unemployment benefits, which means... loosing the lights.
So either you can't keep, or barely can keep the lights on with unemployment (since it pays higher than the garbage minimum wage), and the moment you find a job, and it pays 8.25. (Unemployment is roughly about 9-10 dollars an hour) Your essentially fucked, You can't wait for a higher paying job, your forced into the lower paying one. How is this not the EXACT complaint people against Socialism/Communism make. The government is straight up forcing you into a job you do not want.

 

[subcon959]

I'm not sure I see it the same way you do, but the obvious take on this is that the minimum wage should be higher, and the government shouldn't be incentivising people who have the ability to work to stay on benefits.

 

[Hanafuda]

The government isn't forcing you to take a job. It's forcing you to decide between working for income, or not working and getting no income. Unemployment benefits are for a limited duration and conditional upon active job seeking. It isn't reasonable to expect them to last until you land your dream job/pay.

 

[Hayato213]

Unemployment benefit duration is limited to like 6 months or so I believe, so after that time the benefit end, the longer you don't work the harder for you to find a job.

 

[mightymuffy]

Yeah I don't see you getting much support from us employed people on this one!
But Christ on a bike the average weekly payment in the US is $378?! Why?! ~$100 here in UK, $200 for those with dependancies etc (more for the bludgers that know what they're doing I suppose..) It's no wonder 'anarcho communists' and others of a similar frame of mind to you don't want to work.. even if it is for only 6 months, something's kinda wrong there.
Here in the UK the minimum wage is, as far as I know, supported: this definitely needs fixing in the US if what many on here are saying. Just remember that is taxpayers money you're spending there - so the usual comments of 'get soddin working! (but by all means improve your situation with study etc while you're at it)' are to be expected

 

[Deleted member 586536]

The government isn't forcing you to take a job. It's forcing you to decide between working for income, or not working and getting no income

Oh my apologize. I forgot that death via starvation and a lack of housing is an option. My bad.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

Unemployment benefits are for a limited duration and conditional upon active job seeking. It isn't reasonable to expect them to last until you land your dream job/pay.

This is more of a question of principal. I'm not arguing for unemployment benefits to last indefinitely, as that would be stupid.
However... let's say your in a area that rent is at least 800. (This just rent. And this is incredibly cheap)
Odds are to make it with at least a car insurance, internet, and food. That you'd need to make roughly 10-12 an hour. Minimum.
Now let's consider this situation again. You end up on unemployment, and the next available job is a job that pays 8.25. Far below what is needed for basic shit.
This is essentially the goverment picking your job. You don't get to choose.
How is this not THE exact thing "communism" would do.
Sure the goverment isn't putting a bullet to your head. But the alternative is starvation and subsequent death. Either you loose unemployment because the job you were told to pick up is paying too little for most necessities, and you choose not to, resulting in effectively loosing everything and starvation. Or you go with that job... with the same results... except no starvation, but definitely can't pay rent or that car insurance.
You don't really get to choose here. Either you loose unemployment and die. Or you get the small chance you don't.
As for people who would say"but that's the same for if it runs out"
Not really. The goverment didn't choose your job. The grace window they provided ran out. That's not really forcing you to take a job.
If you choose not to get a job while the window was present that's most likely on you.

Because previously, if you were on unemployment you had a 6 month window to find a suitable job. Which 6 months is reasonable (when the job market isn't shit. Which it always is but I'll remain quiet here)
Now you must take any job, regardless if it can pays for basic necessities within reason or not. You can't wait a additional week for something more reasonable.
Unless your telling me humans can live off of nothing but air.

 

[KingVamp]

I feel like automation and renewable energy is going to force ubi, eventually.

 

[Hayato213]

This is more of a question of principal. I'm not arguing for unemployment benefits to last indefinitely, as that would be stupid.
However... let's say your in a area that rent is at least 800. (This just rent. And this is incredibly cheap)
Odds are to make it with at least a car insurance, internet, and food. That you'd need to make roughly 10-12 an hour. Minimum.
Now let's consider this situation again. You end up on unemployment, and the next available job is a job that pays 8.25. Far below what is needed for basic shit.
This is essentially the goverment picking your job. You don't get to choose.
How is this not THE exact thing "communism" would do.
Sure the goverment isn't putting a bullet to your head. But the alternative is starvation and subsequent death. Either you loose unemployment because the job you were told to pick up is paying too little for most necessities, and you choose not to, resulting in effectively loosing everything and starvation. Or you go with that job... with the same results... except no starvation, but definitely can't pay rent or that car insurance.
You don't really get to choose here. Either you loose unemployment and die. Or you get the small chance you don't.
As for people who would say"but that's the same for if it runs out"
Not really. The goverment didn't choose your job. The grace window they provided ran out. That's not really forcing you to take a job.
If you choose not to get a job while the window was present that's most likely on you.

Because previously, if you were on unemployment you had a 6 month window to find a suitable job. Which 6 months is reasonable (when the job market isn't shit. Which it always is but I'll remain quiet here)
Now you must take any job, regardless if it can pays for basic necessities within reason or not. You can't wait a additional week for something more reasonable.
Unless your telling me humans can live off of nothing but air.

Believe it or not @Hanafuda is speaking the true, believe it or not you only get 26 weeks of unemployment insurance, and you need to show them at least one that you are are active seeking a job, you would have to attend workshop meeting and turn in a sheet showing you are actively looking for jobs.

Well learn better skills if you want to make money, while that $8.25 is way below the minimum wage, you can learn skills in high demand jobs to make a living like AWS. I don't like it but your last resort you could turn to scalping, if you need to make some money, selling high demand electronics if you can get them can make you some money.

 

[Taleweaver]

So... How does that "anarcho communist" model look like? "the government picks the jobs but nobody does them" perhaps?

More serious... What's your angle here? It may be a cliche, but under capitalism you've got the individual freedom of choice. Yes, the freedom to starve to death if you decide to not work, or to 'only slowly' starve when your job isn't in demand, but it's not like it's a cosmetic difference worth ignoring for sake of the argument.

You're shooting hypocrites because capitalism essentially forces people into labor. I won't deny that fact, but... what's hypocritical about it? The criticism on communism has always been the active (as in dominant or even 100% steering) role of the economy rather than the referee or on the backseat. If you really thought capitalism was about freedom for employees, then I'm sorry, but you're incredibly naive. It's the freedom of entrepreneurship, not of the (non directors) role in said enterprises.



I can make a statement on socialism being the best for this situation (power to the employees instead of the direction or the state) , but even there : you only count as long as you've got a job.

 

[Xzi]

I'm not sure I see it the same way you do, but the obvious take on this is that the minimum wage should be higher, and the government shouldn't be incentivising people who have the ability to work to stay on benefits.

I agree with this, but from a slightly different perspective: the private sector shouldn't be incentivizing people to stay on benefits by paying less than what unemployment does. No company that treats its workers right and pays $17+ an hour is facing a "worker shortage" right now, it's exclusive to abusive work environments that don't even cover the cost of commuting with their wages.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

So... How does that "anarcho communist" model look like? "the government picks the jobs but nobody does them" perhaps?

More serious... What's your angle here? It may be a cliche, but under capitalism you've got the individual freedom of choice. Yes, the freedom to starve to death if you decide to not work, or to 'only slowly' starve when your job isn't in demand, but it's not like it's a cosmetic difference worth ignoring for sake of the argument.

You're shooting hypocrites because capitalism essentially forces people into labor. I won't deny that fact, but... what's hypocritical about it? The criticism on communism has always been the active (as in dominant or even 100% steering) role of the economy rather than the referee or on the backseat. If you really thought capitalism was about freedom for employees, then I'm sorry, but you're incredibly naive. It's the freedom of entrepreneurship, not of the (non directors) role in said enterprises.



I can make a statement on socialism being the best for this situation (power to the employees instead of the direction or the state) , but even there : you only count as long as you've got a job.

In a anarcho communist society there is not much of a state, and if there is odds are it's strictly policy based/ not a representative system but a direct policy system via majority vote. So in other words, anarcho wouldn't strong arm as your saying here.
What I find hypocritical is that capitalists, are complaining about what "communism" would do, while... essentially doing the same things. Starvation? well that's already a major issue.
I put in heavy air quotes here. Because of system of relationships. Captalism at the end of the day will result in a hierarchy, which means even if you attempt a anarcho capitalist society, it's doomed to fail, as a company/buisness for the sake of more profits will eventually become the new state. Communism doesn't have a inherit hierarchy. HOWEVER, it can inherit one from the previous system, resulting in well... still a class, and just a new coat of paint (USSR didn't redistribute, and as such, most of the people that were previously in power, mostly remained in power, which creates a class)

 

[KingVamp]

I'm not so anti-cap as some people, not that I would mind it getting replace with something better, but it is clear that it needs guard rails. If things tend to go towards a hierarchy anyway, I rather it be a social democracy one vs... whatever we have now.

 

[chocoboss]

You will have to work to get monney. I got my first job while I was 13 ( during hollydays ). It will prevent abuse. it didn't seems a bad idea

 

[wartutor]

....edit not a good idea to put that, better to just say "self entitled" much. Jesus...

 

[Creamu]

How is this not the EXACT complaint people against Socialism/Communism make. The government is straight up forcing you into a job you do not want.

You must understand, the leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse. It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time. The fact that most of the world is ignorant and uncaring about this enormous crime is proof that the global media is in the hands of the perpetrators.

-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

 

[duwen]

If the government provided what OP is suggesting, unemployment would skyrocket as there'd be a reduced incentive for ANYONE to work.
The vast majority of us in employment are not in our ideal jobs, earning the wage we deserve. I've only had two pay rises in the last decade and a half!
Yes, existing is sometimes a struggle, but at least I'm not so entitled to think that I can spend as long as I want waiting for the perfect job to come to me while living off of hard working tax payers money and complaining that it's not fair that I get everything paid for me but, boo-hoo, only for a few months??!

 

[chrisrlink]

no the hypocracy is the ssi system (disabled people who have yet to work) they throw you under a speeding bus as soon as you make more than $60 (yes only 60) a month (SSDI those who paid into the SSI progrram) gets a $800 a month cap if the governmet wats peope to work then they should ring that higher wage cap over, a deeply flawed and illogical system

 

[Deleted member 194275]

this old quote from a western says all:

 

[Creamu]

this old quote from a western says all:

Yes, the system is designed to keep you down and to exploit you. They will do that until you and your kind have perished or you will have to stand up to fight for what is right. unfortunatly.