PS1/2 Do modern burners/CD's make lower quality PS1 backups?

[xraymind]

so if the box says 'made in japan' then probably you have this ATIP info that you have, or it's at least made by TY.

I will agree with you that any TDK 74min CD-R packaging label printed with 'Made in Japan' will be TY.

Hmm, maybe I never mentioned it here but I had some _issues_ with that drive not being complaint with the mmc standard and it had some strange issues with some burning software and burns were not seemingly 1:1 with the actual disc image due to buggy firmware or something. I took it off the guide when I discovered them. Sorry for not mentioning that sooner.

I will still go ahead and waste couple of the low quality CD-Rs with it. Again I only paid around $20 for it.

CDRid seems promising. Cdrecord never really gave a specific dye… Much to update in the guide. Also I bet that Yamaha CRW4260 drive is pretty sweet.

I have some good news and bad news on CDRid front for you. After trying in vain with the word "CDRid", I finally searched for "CD-R ATIP Software" and found this page from a guy mirrored a copy of it from the Internet Archive. The bad news is that the software from 2002 only works under ASPI layer for Windows, so it's not detecting any of my drives that is using Windows' SPTI layer. Hope you have better luck with CDRid.

 

[alexfree]

I will agree with you that any TDK 74min CD-R packaging label printed with 'Made in Japan' will be TY.

I will still go ahead and waste couple of the low quality CD-Rs with it. Again I only paid around $20 for it.


I have some good news and bad news on CDRid front for you. After trying in vain with the word "CDRid", I finally searched for "CD-R ATIP Software" and found this page from a guy mirrored a copy of it from the Internet Archive. The bad news is that the software from 2002 only works under ASPI layer for Windows, so it's not detecting any of my drives that is using Windows' SPTI layer. Hope you have better luck with CDRid.

https://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_dye.shtml

Post automatically merged: Apr 26, 2024

Also noticed this @KleinesSinchen

https://www.yaronet.com/topics/171270-mini-cd-ps1-de-8-cm

As mini CDs were previously mentioned:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/do-mode...ality-ps1-backups.628708/page-5#post-10248701

The only viable way to test out the 63 minute discs are with their 8cm mini cd counter-parts. That crazy $400 listing was never bought for the 12CM 550MBs 63 minutes imagine that https://www.ebay.com/itm/1857639638...dasgv_hr_o&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

@SylverReZ said they didn’t get good results with one before though, I wonder if it was a mini cd burned with a good drive, if it was an 80 minute density equivalent, 74 minute equivalent, or 63 like the Mavica discs.

 

[Armadillo]

My oldish ihas124 E seems to burn copies fine.

Last copy I ran off years ago at x16 on a Verbatim Pastel cd-r (these are taiyo yuden), worked fine on both my old 9000 series that is my original console from back in the day with a random 4 wire chip and has probably never seen an original disc and also my PS One, PM-41 (2) motherboard with a Psnee in it.

No issues at all, no fmv skipping, no struggling to load.

Can't remember if it was an x48 or x52 disc though (I have both on the shelf). They are on this page here https://ez647.sk/verbatim.html

Nice pastel coloured discs, but long out of production.

 

[alexfree]

My oldish ihas124 E seems to burn copies fine.

Last copy I ran off years ago at x16 on a Verbatim Pastel cd-r (these are taiyo yuden), worked fine on both my old 9000 series that is my original console from back in the day with a random 4 wire chip and has probably never seen an original disc and also my PS One, PM-41 (2) motherboard with a Psnee in it.

No issues at all, no fmv skipping, no struggling to load.

Can't remember if it was an x48 or x52 disc though (I have both on the shelf). They are on this page here https://ez647.sk/verbatim.html

Nice pastel coloured discs, but long out of production.

Nice those are the ‘old reliable’ verbatim data life plus 74 minutes that I have on the guide: https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/#verbatim-datalifeplus-74-minutes
Those are Mitsubishi chemical corp tho, def not taiyo Yuden as per ATIP/AZO original dye formulation.

Seems the IHAS 124 (ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ) are all great burners I’ll add your E variant to the guide, thanks for the report

Post automatically merged: Apr 27, 2024

I will agree with you that any TDK 74min CD-R packaging label printed with 'Made in Japan' will be TY.

I will still go ahead and waste couple of the low quality CD-Rs with it. Again I only paid around $20 for it.


I have some good news and bad news on CDRid front for you. After trying in vain with the word "CDRid", I finally searched for "CD-R ATIP Software" and found this page from a guy mirrored a copy of it from the Internet Archive. The bad news is that the software from 2002 only works under ASPI layer for Windows, so it's not detecting any of my drives that is using Windows' SPTI layer. Hope you have better luck with CDRid.

Hmmm also found cdrid here https://www.cdmediaworld.com/cgi-bin/dl.cgi?f=cdrid163!zip

 

[Armadillo]

Nice those are the ‘old reliable’ verbatim data life plus 74 minutes that I have on the guide: https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/#verbatim-datalifeplus-74-minutes
Those are Mitsubishi chemical corp tho, def not taiyo Yuden as per ATIP/AZO original dye formulation.

Seems the IHAS 124 (ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ) are all great burners I’ll add your E variant to the guide, thanks for the report

I've not dug too far into it, but Taiyo Yuden is what imgburn reported them as

That's a pastel 52x disc. Taiyo Yuden, or so the atip claims. x48 disc is also reported as Taiyo Yuden.

https://ez647.sk/verbatim.html

Says the pastel discs are Taiyo Yuden as well.

 

[xraymind]

Hmmm also found cdrid here https://www.cdmediaworld.com/cgi-bin/dl.cgi?f=cdrid163!zip

Ha! I miss seeing that little blue disk icon next to the title of the name of the program.

BTW, I found this interesting video on repairing a "bad laser" on a SCPH-1001 PSX. Basically, the plastic track for the laser pickup unit had worn down. So he use the info from this really old webpage to repair it.

 

[Fien]

Does these burners also burn cheap media into good playing PS1 games? Like Ritek and CMC Magnetics CD-R's.

My exprience is that with good media some "bad" burners can make good playing games too, but only a good burner can turn cheap media into good games too.

Like test playing with a slightly worn PS1 is a better test then using a mint condition PS1.

 

[alexfree]

Does these burners also burn cheap media into good playing PS1 games? Like Ritek and CMC Magnetics CD-R's.

My exprience is that with good media some "bad" burners can make good playing games too, but only a good burner can turn cheap media into good games too.

Like test playing with a slightly worn PS1 is a better test then using a mint condition PS1.

From personal experience, cheap media never really works for the launch consoles even with a good burner. The tolerances just are not there in a VC0A CDROM analog servo from 1994 to handle such garbage Same with my VC1A USA consoles, which still have an improved version of analog servo. It literally can not read them and boot anything at all whatsoever!

The 'all digital servo' was introduced in true VC2A consoles (SCPH-55XX) at the same time as auto-bias/gain laser re-calibration, which can adapt much better to such bad CD-R media. The technology kept progressing rapidly throughout the life span of the PSX, and by the time that VC3A servos were introduced (especially 'VC3Bs' in launch PS2s) it really can handle/tolerate bad media burned by good burners. The PS2 is soo funny, my SCPH-10000 can play the worst 80 minute cd-rs excellently, but then there is the PS2 80 minute media regression bug that in effect for some games that can make it even worse at handling 80 minute media then the SCPH-1000 launch console.

The actual, best model of them all (CD-R tolerance wise) to get for PS1 appears to be SCPH-7000-9XXX series. No cut corners, almost equivalent performance to launch PS2s, no stupid 80 minute media seek bugs...

But the launch consoles will remain the best overall always. With their limited technology even,, they are actually immune to all anti-piracy detection besides libcrypt. And I murdered that protection with LibCrypt Patcher.... They also have the CD Player Swap Trick, and even without unlock shall always remain the most exploitable console models forever! The only downside are multi-disc games (applicable only to Japanese launch mdels), but I will conquer this with software hacks eventually.

 

[Fien]

Unfortunately I don't have a SCPH-1xxx/3xxx PS1 to test cheap discs on it. The slightly worn SCPH-5552 is the oldest one I have.

The SCPH-39004 PS2 I have can read much bad burned discs, even those that stutter on the 7502 and 9002. But that PS2 cannot read a scratched original Crash Bash CD while all my PS1's can read it fine

 

[xraymind]

I just want to vent some frustration. I bought another USB/IDE CD-R burner(Mitsumi Model CR-4824TU) from eBay, which the seller claims to be working. So I try to burn a Sony CD-R with it. Well it got stuck at the 50% of the burn, thought it was image file or my computer needed a reboot. So I burn another CD-R with an image I already burned with another burner. Well this time it was stuck at 90%. Just in case this burner has issue with Sony CD-R(16x-48x). I did a test burn with the TDK by TY CD-R and it fail like at 70% this time.

The moral of the story, do a couple of test burns before wasting CD-Rs on any untested burner that you got from eBay.

 

[alexfree]

The Ultimate Guide To PSX CD-Rs is getting a serious update. I am diving into obscure ancient internet articles, like for example I found this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020307134130/http://www.yuden.co.jp/product/jump_cd-r.htm

Simply incredible, google translate says:

COMPANY INFORMATION RECRUIT Bluetooth CD-R CD-R That's CD-R Printable Taiyo Yuden "That's CD-R" lineup CD-R features and lineup that Taiyo Yuden, the developer of CD-R, is proud of For the first time in the world, it is possible to record in a full range from 1x to 24x speed. Major lighter manufacturers recognize the quality and use it for inspection purposes. Compatible with standard CD-ROM drives and CD players around the world. It has excellent durability and environmental resistance, and is highly reliable with a predicted lifespan of 100 years in an environment of 30°C and 85% humidity. <Classification by recording capacity (recording time)> 620MB (71 minutes)* 650MB (74 minutes) 700MB (80 minutes) *Sold for specific business purposes. <Classification by label> That's label no level Customer (OEM) label That's CD-R Printable (custom label printing supported) That's CD-R Printable White (Full color printing supported) <Classification by packaging type> With jewel case Pack of 10 pieces in jewel case Bulk case of 50 pieces Copyright 1998 by TAIYOYUDEN CO.,LTD. All rights reserved

We have an official PSX maximum intended capacity/density, 620MBs! SOLD FOR SPECIFIC BUSINESS PURPOSES.
Even more, `That's CD-R` is the first ever brand of CD-R, released in 1988 with the original Cyanide dye. By the mid 90s however, it essentially became super Cyanide, which solved the pitfalls of the original dye formula (not age resistant, not very reflective). Taiyo Yuden was the absolute standard in CD-R media quality: https://yuden.com/

Basically this is the history:

1) Invents CD-R in 88
2) Perfects the best process by 92-94
3) PlayStation contracts them for master discs ~94
4) Continues using them for PS2 CDROMs (i.e. TimeSplitters)
5) That's CD-R ends??
6) Taiyo Yuden factories close 2015?
7) Engineers go to JVC with the process and creates essentially the same thing under JVC Taiyo Yuden? I can't figure out how 74 minute discs from this venture were made, when it seems even by 2005 74 minute Taiyo Yuden discs were dead. I really think this listing was mis-labeled @xraymind.
8) JVC ends that venture, CMC picks it up (now the all encompassing monoply that it is)...
https://www.gotmedia.com/taiyo-yuden-cdr-shiny-silver.html

Also great info:
1) Quality CD-R manufactures: https://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml#CD-R Quality Overview
- this finally proves Verbatims (even old school ones) are a step down from Taiyo Yuden! AZO < SuperCyanine, as I suspected for a very long time

2) CD Factories: https://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_factories.shtml

3) Sony didn't support 80 minute CD-Rs in thier burners forever and dragged thier feet: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-rEAAOSwmNtfX80L/s-l1600.jpg is from 1999 and reportably doesn't burn more then 78 minutes to an 80 minute disc: https://cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_cd-r80.shtml s0j

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2024

I just want to vent some frustration. I bought another USB/IDE CD-R burner(Mitsumi Model CR-4824TU) from eBay, which the seller claims to be working. So I try to burn a Sony CD-R with it. Well it got stuck at the 50% of the burn, thought it was image file or my computer needed a reboot. So I burn another CD-R with an image I already burned with another burner. Well this time it was stuck at 90%. Just in case this burner has issue with Sony CD-R(16x-48x). I did a test burn with the TDK by TY CD-R and it fail like at 70% this time.

The moral of the story, do a couple of test burns before wasting CD-Rs on any untested burner that you got from eBay.

All this stuff we are playing with is so ancient, even my Plextor PX 708A is now 20 years old, manufactured in April 2004! Sorry for your experience, but ebay returns are really good IMO so definitely utilize that.

My $40 REDUMP DRIVE (the said Plextor PX 708A) didn't work when I got it, but luckily the optical disc tray was just jammed (wouldn't open when I bought it). Got it unjammed by force, working ever since.

 

[xraymind]

7) Engineers go to JVC with the process and creates essentially the same thing under JVC Taiyo Yuden? I can't figure out how 74 minute discs from this venture were made, when it seems even by 2005 74 minute Taiyo Yuden discs were dead. I really think this listing was mis-labeled @xraymind.

Actually, I have one of the TDK by TY that I have found in the spindle had been burned by my friend back in 2001. So these 74min CD-Rs were within the timeline that they were made by Taiyo Yuden. The quality of 24(?) years old TY disc holds up pretty well, where all of the errors are at the end of the burn.

All this stuff we are playing with is so ancient, even my Plextor PX 708A is now 20 years old, manufactured in April 2004! Sorry for your experience, but ebay returns are really good IMO so definitely utilize that.

Yea, I really like the case/power supply for that USB burner and I had ask for partial refund from the seller, so I can swap out the bad drive with a good one. But for some reason the seller wanted it back. So I received a free return shipping label and eBay will issue me a full refund.

 

[alexfree]

Actually, I have one of the TDK by TY that I have found in the spindle had been burned by my friend back in 2001.View attachment 434622 So these 74min CD-Rs were within the timeline that they were made by Taiyo Yuden. The quality of 24(?) years old TY disc holds up pretty well, where all of the errors are at the end of the burn.

Yea, I really like the case/power supply for that USB burnerView attachment 434627 and I had ask for partial refund from the seller, so I can swap out the bad drive with a good one. But for some reason the seller wanted it back. So I received a free return shipping label and eBay will issue me a full refund.

Confirmed, JVC merged with Taiyo Yuden in 2009: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/taiyo-yuden-jvc.190046/ So no JVC Taiyo Yuden media actually exists, it was mislabeled by that ebay seller. Later became CMC Pro Powered By Taiyo Yuden when those engineers left the factories that shut down end of 2015.

I suspect the TDK and many media made in japan were manufactured by Taiyo Yuden since they had over half of the entire Japanese market share, however we really don't have a brand name to give people to find them.

 

[SquidDude]

My $40 REDUMP DRIVE (the said Plextor PX 708A) didn't work when I got it, but luckily the optical disc tray was just jammed (wouldn't open when I bought it). Got it unjammed by force, working ever since.

Strangely enough, the two PX-708A's that I've had both had that exact same issue! The emergency eject didn't work, ended up having to force the tray out like you did. I wonder if there's some sort of locking mechanism in them?

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Strangely enough, the two PX-708A's that I've had both had that exact same issue! The emergency eject didn't work, ended up having to force the tray out like you did. I wonder if there's some sort of locking mechanism in them?

It's a know weakness of Plextor drives. When unused for longer period of time they simply won't open.

 

[xraymind]

Confirmed, JVC merged with Taiyo Yuden in 2009: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/taiyo-yuden-jvc.190046/ So no JVC Taiyo Yuden media actually exists, it was mislabeled by that ebay seller. Later became CMC Pro Powered By Taiyo Yuden when those engineers left the factories that shut down end of 2015.

I did a search for "JVC Taiyo Yuden" and it comes up with this eBay listing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/184657552462 This seller seems to have some of these new old stock available. Yes, it's very likely these became CMC Pro.

 

[alexfree]

I just pushed a very big update to the guide to make it nicer and add lots of info. Let me know any feedback here: https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/

 

[Fien]

I saw a Lite-On iHAS 124 E burner in a thrift store for 5 euros and took it because it should be a good burner

However, it doesn't seem to be as good a the NEC ND-3550 and Pioneer DVR-107 when using cheap media. The Philips/Ritek CD-R I tried with it does play fine on the SCPH-102, but FMV stutters heavily on the older SCPH-5552. The minimum supported burn speed was 16x.

 

[alexfree]

I saw a Lite-On iHAS 124 E burner in a thrift store for 5 euros and took it because it should be a good burner

However, it doesn't seem to be as good a the NEC ND-3550 and Pioneer DVR-107 when using cheap media. The Philips/Ritek CD-R I tried with it does play fine on the SCPH-102, but FMV stutters heavily on the older SCPH-5552. The minimum supported burn speed was 16x.

Hmm, can you verify with CMC Pro discs the same results? @Armadillo said this worked well and it is on the guide https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/#cd-r-burner

 

[Fien]

Hmm, can you verify with CMC Pro discs the same results? @Armadillo said this worked well and it is on the guide https://alex-free.github.io/psx-cdr/#cd-r-burner

I don't have those CMC Pro discs. It's not easy to buy those in The Netherlands. Most discs in the shops here are cheap brands.

He tested it in a SCPH-9xxx and a PS One which seem to have better reading capabilities.

My SCPH-102 is also a PS One in which the Ritek disc works fine. But in the older SCPH-5552 it stutters.