PS1/2 Do modern burners/CD's make lower quality PS1 backups?

[SylverReZ]

I don't have those CMC Pro discs. It's not easy to buy those in The Netherlands. Most discs in the shops here are cheap brands.

He tested it in a SCPH-9xxx and a PS One which seem to have better reading capabilities.

My SCPH-102 is also a PS One in which the Ritek disc works fine. But in the older SCPH-5552 it stutters.

They sell them here for £7 for a set of ten CD-Rs.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333992540000

 

[Fien]

They sell them here for £7 for a set of ten CD-Rs.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333992540000

These are very expensive for only testing.

The £7,- is only the CD's. To let it ship to The Netherlands it will cost £9,33 shipping and £5,- taxes. And if it's delivered by PostNL they will charge me a additional €7,- when it's at the Dutch customs.

It will cost €25,- or more for only 10 discs

 

[SylverReZ]

These are very expensive for only testing.

The £7,- is only the CD's. To let it ship to The Netherlands it will cost £9,33 shipping and £5,- taxes. And if it's delivered by PostNL they will charge me a additional €7,- when it's at the Dutch customs.

It will cost €25,- or more for only 10 discs

Oh damn. Well I'm sure some local supplier might have them. €25 is the same as buying a spindle of 50 CD-Rs.

 

[alexfree]

https://duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-3884.html another good citation I’ll add to the article I think.

 

[alexfree]

Found this on C1/C2 error testing for Plextor PX-708A and Taiyo Yuden discs, further confirming the results: https://www.cdrinfo.com/d7/content/plextor-px-708a

 

[Fien]

Some time ago I got two burners from a thrift store (they are rare, most stores just throw away computer parts), they let me toke them for €1,- each because nobody bought them for a long time.

It was a Pioneer DVR-MCC and a Acer CDRW 6x4x32.

The Acer was unfortunately dead, the laser pickup didn't move

But the Pioneer DVR-MCC seems to be a good one I upgraded the firmware to 1.14 and burned multiple PS1 games with it which all play without any stuttering on the PS1 models I have It supports 4x as the lowest CD burning speed which I used.

This Pioneer DVR-MCC looks like a OEM drive sold in Germany and found in some old Medion desktops.


Edit: maybe this DVR-MCC burner is even a bit better then the ND-3550A. The game "Driver" is quite hard to burn (intro FMV is high bitrate of it's location on the disc) if meant to be played on the SCPH-5552. The intro FMV stutters even on CMC media burned with the ND-3550A, but this DVR-MCC did it great.

 

[ShaunD]

First off great thread. I'm getting back into burning PS1 discs again. I've been there since the early days in the 90's burning them. The last drive I remember using was an Lite On CD drive. Never had a problem burning them back then...

Back in the now, I started burning the games with a Pioneer (Bluray Drive). Surprisingly it can burn cd discs at x4 speed. I used Taiyo Yuden JVC CMC PRO discs. I've tested them at low and high speeds and found the slowest x4 to work the best. They play just fine with no FMV jumps, unfortunately its on boot where I find the problem. So times they will boot and sometimes they won't load (Sometimes a red screen and others stuck on the black screen logo screen). I burnt with Imgburn and 120%. Iv'e tested it on multi consoles including a couple of Psone's with great lasers.

I've read The Ultimate Guide To PSX CD-Rs and it mentions that the EMF signal strength is too weak with modern drives. I take it that's why i'm having this problem with my burnt discs.

Anyway I was looking into getting another cd drive (ide old one). I see there is quite a feew to choose from. What would be the best to get?

Thanks alot

 

[Fien]

Burned discs that not always boot, I have a couple of newer burners that can make them too

For me the NEC ND-3550A works the best, but I use it with cheap media. You probably have more choice because you're using good media.

Multiple here says the Plextor PX-708A is the best one. However, probably it's also the most expensive one to get.

I think which one to get depends on which one you can find (second-hand) for a price you want to pay.

 

[ShaunD]

Burned discs that not always boot, I have a couple of newer burners that can make them too

For me the NEC ND-3550A works the best, but I use it with cheap media. You probably have more choice because you're using good media.

Multiple here says the Plextor PX-708A is the best one. However, probably it's also the most expensive one to get.

I think which one to get depends on which one you can find (second-hand) for a price you want to pay.

Thanks for the info, Fien. It's much appreciated. I used old media in my Psones and they always work great on boot (no crashes, red screen) so I'm thinking it's got to be down to modern drives with the EMF signal strength, I take. I'm going to try and find out my old CD drives first, failing that, I'll try and track down the said drives you mention. Cheers

 

[SylverReZ]

@alexfree https://consolemods.org/wiki/User:Derf/CD_Burning_Shenanigans

You'll be interested.

 

[Fien]

Yesterday I was in a video game museum in Germany and it had a Sega Saturn with a spindle of burned CD-R games which you could play with The burned CD-R's where cheap Medion CD's and they played fine including the FMV's (I played Road Rash).

Is the CD drive from a Sega Saturn better then a PS1 drive or do they burned the cheap CD's with a good burner?

 

[alexfree]

Yesterday I was in a video game museum in Germany and it had a Sega Saturn with a spindle of burned CD-R games which you could play with The burned CD-R's where cheap Medion CD's and they played fine including the FMV's (I played Road Rash).

Is the CD drive from a Sega Saturn better then a PS1 drive or do they burned the cheap CD's with a good burner?

Probably one of the reasons Saturn launched for $399 and PSX launched for $299 in US. I have never confirmed it but the Saturn drive is really good from what I’ve heard

 

[ShaunD]

Probably one of the reasons Saturn launched for $399 and PSX launched for $299 in US. I have never confirmed it but the Saturn drive is really good from what I’ve heard

Probably one of the reasons Saturn launched for $399 and PSX launched for $299 in US. I have never confirmed it but the Saturn drive is really good from what I’ve heard

Yes, Alex. I think you are right. It does seem better at reading discs on that Saturn compared to the PSX.

 

[Fien]

It seems like the FMV on the game "Driver" is more difficult to burn stutter-free (on cheap media) for the SCPH-5552. Maybe it's a higher bitrate or it's the location on the disc. Even with the ND-3550A and CMC CD-R it stutters slightly. But with the Pioneer DVR-MCC it makes a good one from the CMC disc.

A NEC-Optiarc AD-7173A did a good one of this game on a Sony CD-R (with Sony mediacode), but I think those Sony discs are old and from a time when CD-R's has a better quality. They are rated 48x instead of 52x, making me think they are very old.

I also found a NEC ND-3530A and after a couple of discs I have the feeling it's a bad one. Not even near a ND-3550A while the model number is similar.

-----

Also, I just found some CD-R's that seems to be not compatible with the SCPH-5552. They are branded "Office Depot" and has a "Moser Baer" mediacode.

Even burned with a ND-3550A (8x and 24x) or DVR-MCC (4x) those discs stutter heavily on the SCPH-5552. If burned with the iHAS124 E (16x) it doesn't even boot on the SCPH-5552. They play fine on SCPH-7502 and up, but that's not good enough. Maybe Moser Baer discs are even more bad then CMC and Ritek

ATIP from those discs:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type B, low Beta category (B-) (4)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -12369 (97:17/06)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359849 (79:59/74)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 69
Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Limited

I still have 70pcs of these left

 

[alexfree]

It seems like the FMV on the game "Driver" is more difficult to burn stutter-free (on cheap media) for the SCPH-5552. Maybe it's a higher bitrate or it's the location on the disc. Even with the ND-3550A and CMC CD-R it stutters slightly. But with the Pioneer DVR-MCC it makes a good one from the CMC disc.

A NEC-Optiarc AD-7173A did a good one of this game on a Sony CD-R (with Sony mediacode), but I think those Sony discs are old and from a time when CD-R's has a better quality. They are rated 48x instead of 52x, making me think they are very old.

I also found a NEC ND-3530A and after a couple of discs I have the feeling it's a bad one. Not even near a ND-3550A while the model number is similar.

-----

Also, I just found some CD-R's that seems to be not compatible with the SCPH-5552. They are branded "Office Depot" and has a "Moser Baer" mediacode.

Even burned with a ND-3550A (8x and 24x) or DVR-MCC (4x) those discs stutter heavily on the SCPH-5552. If burned with the iHAS124 E (16x) it doesn't even boot on the SCPH-5552. They play fine on SCPH-7502 and up, but that's not good enough. Maybe Moser Baer discs are even more bad then CMC and Ritek

ATIP from those discs:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type B, low Beta category (B-) (4)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -12369 (97:17/06)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359849 (79:59/74)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 69
Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Limited

I still have 70pcs of these left

Looks like the disc is almost entirely made up of FMV data. FMV data spans from LBA 63,280 to well past 304,939,.. The earlier the LBA, the faster physically the drive spins the disc to reach 2x speed, the more likely it hits disc read issues with cheap media? That first FMV is also the biggest (from a glance).

 

[Fien]

Looks like the disc is almost entirely made up of FMV data. FMV data spans from LBA 63,280 to well past 304,939,.. The earlier the LBA, the faster physically the drive spins the disc to reach 2x speed, the more likely it hits disc read issues with cheap media? That first FMV is also the biggest (from a glance).

The intro FMV seems to be on the outside of the disc (I have the PAL version, maybe it's different?). If I turn the power off when the FMV is playing, the laser pickup is at this point:

Maybe the outside of cheap discs have more wobbling?

Post automatically merged: Jun 9, 2024

I got a old Plextor PX-2410A CD-only burner today for 10 euros

I haven't burned much discs with it yet, but it doesn't manage to burn a stutter-free "Driver" disc on the same cheap CMC media the Pioneer DVR-MCC did

The speed I burned at was 4x. Older burners doesn't list the available speeds in Imgburn so i don't know if lower was possible. But 4x should be low enough?

Fun fact: This burner came with 25 "empty" Philips CD-R's, but it turned out 11 of them where already used. One was a empty case, 2 coasters, 1 MP3 music and 7 pieces where full of porn movies/pictures

The porn CD's are Ritek's burned somewhere in the mid '00s, so cheap media can be okayish for mid-term storage I didn't informed the seller yet about this

 

[alexfree]

The intro FMV seems to be on the outside of the disc (I have the PAL version, maybe it's different?). If I turn the power off when the FMV is playing, the laser pickup is at this point:

Maybe the outside of cheap discs have more wobbling?

Post automatically merged: Jun 9, 2024

I got a old Plextor PX-2410A CD-only burner today for 10 euros

I haven't burned much discs with it yet, but it doesn't manage to burn a stutter-free "Driver" disc on the same cheap CMC media the Pioneer DVR-MCC did

The speed I burned at was 4x. Older burners doesn't list the available speeds in Imgburn so i don't know if lower was possible. But 4x should be low enough?

Fun fact: This burner came with 25 "empty" Philips CD-R's, but it turned out 11 of them where already used. One was a empty case, 2 coasters, 1 MP3 music and 7 pieces where full of porn movies/pictures

The porn CD's are Ritek's burned somewhere in the mid '00s, so cheap media can be okayish for mid-term storage I didn't informed the seller yet about this

Porn 7x the sheer energy of this picture...

It's possible the FMV filenames are not really the order they are played by the console, and the intro is actually one of the last/highest names on the disc. FMVs, XA audio, and CDDA audio (probably in that order) require optimal performance which is why this is such a great test.

Gotta let us know about results with high quality CD-Rs so I can add it to the guide It is interesting to see cheaper media and how it is handled by different drives. Older drives may be worse at burning them then newer ones it seems.

 

[Fien]

The intro FMV from Driver has a higher bitrate that the ones later in the game, I suppose. Only the intro is difficult to burn stutter-free and the picture quality is really high for a PS1 FMV.

The Plextor can burn at 1x to those CMC media and the stuttering is greatly reduced although not as great as the disc from the DVR-MCC. But it came with one verify error in a FMV file (not the intro one)... that's a pity after a one hour burning. Single speed is really slow...

Quality CMC Pro is difficult/very expensive to get in The Netherlands. I suppose the new discs in the shops are even lower quality then those older CMC/Ritek ones.

In a thrift store I saw a couple of older TDK CD-R's. Maybe those are a better quality? But you can't see the media code before buying.

Some old cheap media feels like higher quality then modern cheap media. Like the 48-speed Sony discs, they seem to be quite good compared to the CMC/Ritek ones. But they aren't for sale anymore.

These stuttering of the Driver intro occurs only on the old SCPH-5552. If someone only plays on SCPH-7502 of higher, alot more discs are just "good discs".

 

[alexfree]

The intro FMV from Driver has a higher bitrate that the ones later in the game, I suppose. Only the intro is difficult to burn stutter-free and the picture quality is really high for a PS1 FMV.

The Plextor can burn at 1x to those CMC media and the stuttering is greatly reduced although not as great as the disc from the DVR-MCC. But it came with one verify error in a FMV file (not the intro one)... that's a pity after a one hour burning. Single speed is really slow...

Quality CMC Pro is difficult/very expensive to get in The Netherlands. I suppose the new discs in the shops are even lower quality then those older CMC/Ritek ones.

In a thrift store I saw a couple of older TDK CD-R's. Maybe those are a better quality? But you can't see the media code before buying.

Some old cheap media feels like higher quality then modern cheap media. Like the 48-speed Sony discs, they seem to be quite good compared to the CMC/Ritek ones. But they aren't for sale anymore.

These stuttering of the Driver intro occurs only on the old SCPH-5552. If someone only plays on SCPH-7502 of higher, alot more discs are just "good discs".

Are verbatim DataLifePlus available? The TDKs are probably good as well. I really want some Mitsuis personally

The last thing I want is to only direct people to CMC Pros, there's a few other good brands available new-old stock.

 

[Fien]

Verbatim DataLifePlus can be ordered new. But are those not AZO discs with a blue surface? I have a couple of them left, but those are more difficult to read on the PS1. Even burned with a good burner they stutter more then most cheap brands.

The ATIP from those are the same as the DataLifePlus in the guide:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 4
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -11077 (97:34/23)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359848 (79:59/73)
Disk type:    Long strategy type (Cyanine, AZO or similar)
Manuf. index: 11
Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation

Should I try one of these in the Plextor on 1x or 4x?

I'll try to get the TDK's from the thrift store tomorrow.

According to the list Traxdata is mid... maybe I still have a 5-pack of them left.

Philips is on the good list, but all the 48x and 52x Philips I used are Ritek.