Forget "going green", Liberal cities have gone "brown"

morvoran · Sep 22, 2019

snip

Lacius said:
You don't seem to understand the job discrimination against former prisoners that exists, and you're wanting to add that extra hurdle to homeless people.

Oh, I understand completely. I don't know how many ex-cons you're friends with, but I have several and know what it's like for them. Just like the homeless, they have to at least try to get a job if they want to survive. If they don't want to get jobs, we have to do something with them to help. Giving them homes with no guidance is not helping them.

Lacius said:
Did you read the article? The reason homelessness increased is because they stopped the policy.

Yeah, they stopped it because it wasn't working.

Lacius · Sep 22, 2019

morvoran said:
Oh, I understand completely. I don't know how many ex-cons you're friends with, but I have several and know what it's like for them. Just like the homeless, they have to at least try to get a job if they want to survive. If they don't want to get jobs, we have to do something with them to help. Giving them homes with no guidance is not helping them.

If you understood completely, you wouldn't want the homeless to have to deal with the same systemic barriers to getting a job as ex-cons have.

morvoran said:
Yeah, they stopped it because it wasn't working.

That's not at all true, and that's not at all what the article said. If you're going to just make things up, we can't have a discussion.

Lacius · Sep 22, 2019

morvoran said:
Being locked up for "disturbing the peace" or "disorderly conduct" are not convictions that will keep you from getting jobs as the are misdemeanors and not felonies. They are not going to be treated the same as ex-cons.

Are we talking about a night in jail, or are we talking about time in prison? A night in jail does even less to curb the homelessness problem. A homeless person is no better off after leaving jail.

DarthDub · Sep 22, 2019

Lacius said:
This is evidence of a moral failing on the part of society. We're also talking about going to prison for the crime of being homeless, not spending the night in jail.

After that he went to Job Corps, got training for Automotive-related work and got a job while also living in his own place.

morvoran · Sep 22, 2019

Lacius said:
Are we talking about a night in jail, or are we talking about time in prison? A night in jail does even less to curb the homelessness problem. A homeless person is no better off after leaving jail.

Disorderly Conduct Penalties
Disorderly conduct is almost always punished as a misdemeanor offense, though it qualifies as a felony in certain circumstances, such as when a person makes a false report of a fire. State laws differ in the potential penalties involved for a conviction of disorderly conduct, but they typically include one or more of the following:

Jail: Jail time for a conviction of disorderly conduct is typically short, though state laws can allow for up to a year for a misdemeanor conviction. While many disorderly conduct convictions involve no jail time, especially for first-time offenders, courts often suspend a jail sentence or order a person to “time served,” meaning the jail sentence is satisfied by the time the person already spent in jail after the initial arrest. For repeat offenders or more serious instances of disorderly conduct, short jail terms of several days, weeks, or even months are possible. Felony convictions bring with them the possibility of a year or more in state prison.

They can be held for months if they are constantly being apprehended giving them plenty of time to be rehabilitated.

Lacius · Sep 22, 2019

morvoran said:
Disorderly Conduct Penalties
Disorderly conduct is almost always punished as a misdemeanor offense, though it qualifies as a felony in certain circumstances, such as when a person makes a false report of a fire. State laws differ in the potential penalties involved for a conviction of disorderly conduct, but they typically include one or more of the following:

Jail: Jail time for a conviction of disorderly conduct is typically short, though state laws can allow for up to a year for a misdemeanor conviction. While many disorderly conduct convictions involve no jail time, especially for first-time offenders, courts often suspend a jail sentence or order a person to “time served,” meaning the jail sentence is satisfied by the time the person already spent in jail after the initial arrest. For repeat offenders or more serious instances of disorderly conduct, short jail terms of several days, weeks, or even months are possible. Felony convictions bring with them the possibility of a year or more in state prison.

They can be held for months if they are constantly being apprehended giving them plenty of time to be rehabilitated.

That's going to make getting a job harder, as I've already discussed.

morvoran · Sep 22, 2019

Lacius said:
Did you read the article? The reason homelessness increased is because they stopped the policy.

You must have missed the other article I edited in after that first one.

"Although overall homelessness has actually increased slightly over the past decade in Utah, such a large reduction in chronic homelessness is still an impressive achievement. But is it real?

Unfortunately, no. I spent some time studying Utah’s data and found that the miraculous 91 percent reduction in chronic homelessness appears to be driven by changes in how people were counted, rather than by how many there were."

Also, in the first article I posted, the housing plan was way too expensive to keep running and one guy stating that he pays subsidized rent. He wasn't given free housing. What do you think would happen if he stopped paying his rent?

Lacius said:
That's going to make getting a job harder, as I've already discussed.

Misdemeanors are not as taboo as felonies when it comes to job searching. Plus, the homeless are not going to get jobs as CEO's. They will most likely go for low skilled jobs in which case the illegal alien situation is more harmful than a conviction to them.

Lacius · Sep 22, 2019

morvoran said:
You must have missed the other article I edited in after that first one.

"Although overall homelessness has actually increased slightly over the past decade in Utah, such a large reduction in chronic homelessness is still an impressive achievement. But is it real?

Unfortunately, no. I spent some time studying Utah’s data and found that the miraculous 91 percent reduction in chronic homelessness appears to be driven by changes in how people were counted, rather than by how many there were."

Also, in the first article I posted, the housing plan was way too expensive to keep running and one guy stating that he pays subsidized rent. He wasn't given free housing. What do you think would happen if he stopped paying his rent?

Utah is not the only place practicing Housing First, and the data is consistent.

yuyuyup · Sep 22, 2019

I respectfully disagree with the moderation of my comments; topics like these are NOT tailored to stoke actual discussion, they are created to "trigger the libturds." The very "triggering" itself is often used as an excuse to dismiss counter arguments "REEEEE triggered" etc. He doesn't even hide his dirty intentions, he has his intentions displayed RIGHT THERE in his profile box. I think that by pointing out morvoran's character flaws, I am providing necessary context to morvoran's narrative. Thank you for your consideration.

Chary · Sep 22, 2019

yuyuyup said:
I respectfully disagree with the moderation of my comments; topics like these are NOT tailored to stoke actual discussion, they are created to "trigger the libturds." The very "triggering" itself is often used as an excuse to dismiss counter arguments "REEEEE triggered" etc. He doesn't even hide his dirty intentions, he has his intentions displayed RIGHT THERE in his profile box. I think that by pointing out morvoran's character flaws, I am providing necessary context to morvoran's narrative. Thank you for your consideration.

Flaming, Trolling & Harassment

Do not "flame", "bash", "troll" or harass others. Blatantly offensive comments or actions directed at others will not be tolerated. While we do allow members to debate and voice their own opinions, there will be a limit to how far a heated debate can go before it is closed by staff. If you harass someone you will be disciplined. Period.

If you want to take things to PM with staff over his behavior, you're free to do so. But there is no need to throw personal disparaging remarks at someone. Future moderation over types of inflammatory-titled propaganda threads has already been discussed.

WD_GASTER2 · Sep 22, 2019

morvoran said:
How so? Putting them in prison gives them a warm place to stay, 3 meals a day, and free healthcare. All on the tax payers tab. Sounds better than your idea that has been tried for the past 12+ years in California and has only made the problem worse.

making it a crime to be less fortunate. You have no argument here dude. I am sure you will troll, try to post something that deflects or that in your own mind makes you sound witty, but just admit that you have no suggestion of a real solution here.

Ericthegreat · Sep 22, 2019

Xzi said:
There are no half-measures that will solve this problem. The solution is that we house the homeless.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/housing-all/

Inb4, "hOw ArE yOu GoNnA pAy FoR iT?"

View attachment 180159

I agree 100%, but many of the homeless have mental issues and feel they want to be outside, and in CA as soon as someone ask to leave a mental health facility they are let go, whereas we need to keep them for a bit, put them on meds, then let them make that decision, it is truly the crueler choice to let them die (and let other horrible things happen to them) in the street.

th3joker · Sep 23, 2019

just have the homeless poop in planters and gardens. free fertilizer.

SANIC · Sep 23, 2019

As some who passes through Downtown LA daily, can't say things have gotten worse. They have improved but they definitely are still bad
Homelessness has really gone down, and DTLA has been cleaned up drastically.

Deleted member 397813 · Sep 23, 2019

aww, crap.

SG854 · Sep 23, 2019

Conservatives organize a massive clean up for Los Angeles and Baltimore.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/09/22/presler-los-angeles-clean-up/

But hey guys conservatives are racist and evil, they don't care about helping the unfortunate or helping bad conditions, they are just doing this as a massive PR stunt to get Trump more votes. So any good they do just right it off as them doing it for evil intentions and don't praise them. Spread this message of their evil.

Spring_Spring · Sep 23, 2019

I can't believe there's a political ideology which thinks people are deliberately evil, or deliberately doing bad things, simply because of how much money they have. That counts for both the rich businessmen and homeless individuals.

Subtle Demise · Sep 23, 2019

The police aren't allowed to stop people from shitting in public but it's ok for them to shoot unarmed people and lock others up for victimless "crimes".

Bullseye · Sep 23, 2019

Josshy0125 said:
Actually, it does. There's a DIRECT correlation between having a low intellect and being a Trump supporter.

Admins, close this thread, and the forums, and the internet while you are at it... We have found the smartest brain in the universe.

And this is a FACT.

XD

Forget "going green", Liberal cities have gone "brown"

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