I don't hate trans people. I have sympathy for a person that was created by, put up on a throne and then crushed by her "community" and survived. It just goes to show you what type of people are in the community. She had the surgery, which gives her much more experience in the matter of a "sex change" than someone who hasn't and therefor has "transitioned" successfully.
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Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...
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I don't hate trans people. I have sympathy for a person that was created by, put up on a throne and then crushed by her "community" and survived. It just goes to show you what type of people are in the community. She had the surgery, which gives her much more experience in the matter of a "sex change" than someone who hasn't and therefor has "transitioned" successfully.
So we have you stretching a phobia to include "simply not liking something" and then "generally disliking the people in the current trans movement" to "hatred"?
Read my earlier statements about how transphobia is not a phobia as you understand it. Respectfully, you sound ridiculous.
Generally disliking a group of people who share an immutable characteristic is a form of hate. They are both forms of antipathy, and they are synonyms.
Good one. However, I wouldn't be a very good linguist if reciting basic word usage caused me to get tired. I suggest you look back at my previous posts about the popular usages of these words, why transphobia isn't a phobia as you know it, why the labels you pick don't really matter, and how your general antipathy towards trans people is bad regardless.
So it seems "dislike" is now a synonym of "phobia", huh?
My, how have the roots of the English language fallen to shreds.
Let's lecture the uncultured ones into etymology, because it seems like nowadays people like to make shit up based on whatever they think fits them the best:
Transphobia is nothing more than irrational fear or terror towards trans people, it has nothing to do with dislike.
Sure, dislike can develop into phobia, but both are not mutually inclusive, and "dislike" has no part in a "phobia". Stop using made up terms and changing words to fit what you want them to.
A clear example of the difference is a person disliking a kind of food, like an apple for example, is in NO WAY a Malusdomesticaphobic.
Speaking in terms of phobia/phobics, those persons can't even see nor sometimes even mention the object or person they fear, or they start acting erratically.
One thing is dislike, the other fear. Learn the difference, kiddos.
My, how have the roots of the English language fallen to shreds.
Let's lecture the uncultured ones into etymology, because it seems like nowadays people like to make shit up based on whatever they think fits them the best:
- The suffix -Phobia comes from the greek term "phobos", which means "irrational fear, horror, aversion, panic fear, terror, outward show of fear; object of fear or terror."
- The prefix Miso- comes from the greek term "misos", which means "hater, hatred, hate."
- The prefix Dis- (from dis-like) is a hard one to narrow down. I think it comes from Latin etymology instead of greek, and from what I recall it meant “apart, asunder, away, utterly."
Transphobia is nothing more than irrational fear or terror towards trans people, it has nothing to do with dislike.
Sure, dislike can develop into phobia, but both are not mutually inclusive, and "dislike" has no part in a "phobia". Stop using made up terms and changing words to fit what you want them to.
A clear example of the difference is a person disliking a kind of food, like an apple for example, is in NO WAY a Malusdomesticaphobic.
Speaking in terms of phobia/phobics, those persons can't even see nor sometimes even mention the object or person they fear, or they start acting erratically.
One thing is dislike, the other fear. Learn the difference, kiddos.
Last edited by ShadowOne333,
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You clearly say
- The suffix -Phobia comes from the greek term "phobos", which means "irrational fear, horror, AVERSION, panic fear, terror, outward show of fear; object of fear or terror."
Last edited by AmandaRose,
Nope, it's not wrong, what I said still stands. It clearly says "strong dislike".
As I mentioned, dislike can develop into a phobia, or hatred, it depends on the individual's exposure and response to the object or person that causes such dislike into it.
Any kind of dislike doesn't make you hate or fear something automatically.
Seems like the mere mention of the word in any kind of term or level makes people think it means the same, and it does not.
Last edited by ShadowOne333,
I understand how you feel. I have noticed people say horrible things to one another. However, you can't stop them. None and not ever. Hate exist and it is not going to stop at all. We can't. We can educate them but hate isn't going away. Never. None. Thats the problem. The human is a corruption, that's why. Thanks God that we still have a good people out there that accept those people. I don't have problem with them. I respect them and show friendly and understanding them.
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Again you said a dislike of trans people is not transpobic yet you post that a phobia is a irrational fear, horror, AVERSION, panic fear, terror, outward show of fear; object of fear or terror.
Aversion means a dislike of someone or something.
By your own words then if you dislike or have an aversion to trans people then you are transpobic.
Just my two cents but this seems to be more about disliking the use of terminology more than anything else, homophobic or transphobic in particular. In all fairness, it does seem like the meaning of phobia has shifted over time. Having a phobia seemed to used to mean that you had an irrational fear to something so extremely that it is psychologically crippling and you can't reasonably be expected to ever get over it, and you would act in an involuntary hysteric manner if confronted with it. I mean, this perfectly describes my friends that have things like arachnophobia or acrophobia or trypophobia. It seemed to used to be strictly about fear, not aversion. Of course it is typical to be averse to what you are afraid of so the drift is kinda understandable. But if you are thinking of phobia in strictly a fear sense, it does seem like the term is overused.
Side note, but I've always disliked the terms homophobic or transphobic in the first place because of how it phobia seems to imply a certain amount of involuntary behavior to the thing you fear when I very much think people discriminating against those who are transgender or homosexual do so purposefully
Side note, but I've always disliked the terms homophobic or transphobic in the first place because of how it phobia seems to imply a certain amount of involuntary behavior to the thing you fear when I very much think people discriminating against those who are transgender or homosexual do so purposefully
Oh wow, it doesn't matter what anyone says, people are hell bend on believing that any kind of dislike, doesn't matter the severity, makes you automatically transphobic. Sure, go ahead with that thought. If it makes you feel better.
Again, the definition of aversion explicitly says "strong dislike", not mild, not slight, not normal, not remote, a strong dislike, and some people here imply that even the slightest of dislikes automatically makes you feel aversion for something.
Seems like some people here don't really know the definition of levels in psychology, much less try to comprehend the true meaning behind the words.
Good thing no one here works as a psychologist, or else I pity the patients.
In any case, my word still stands.
Phobia is used for fears ONLY, doesn't matter what you, or anyone else believes it should mean, that's the definition, whether you like it or not.
Transphobia is a misused terminology, that not even the people that are vocal about it seem to get it seems.
Anyway, I won't keep talking, as obviously this would all fall into deaf ears.
See ya, buds!
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As long as intolerance exists, people will continue to label intolerant individuals as such. Sure, many can be entirely too reactionary and too quick to label others, but that's not a trait specific to the political right or left. It's just people being people.
tbh i have met 3 trans people in social settings 1 was nice and didn't act like a big douche bag, 2 did, i accidentally called 1 by their old name and they threw a massive hissy fit and did indeed start throwing around the transphobia BS....no i just knew you as michael for 8 years, i don't care what you do to your body or who you fuck or what clothes you wear or what pronoun you would like to be referred to as.....what i do care about is you acting like a complete prick because someone made a genuine mistake and start sneaking around asking our friends not to invite me out because you want everyone walking on eggshells around you and triple thinking every word that comes out their mouth, sad fact is that after that night it seems half our friends don't ask her to come out any more as she did the same thing to 3 other people at different gatherings, for someone asking others to be more considerate about their feelings she certainly has no regards to how awkward and uncomfortable she made everyone else instead of just understanding that these things aren't just a flip of the switch and appreciating the fact everyone is trying their best to not upset you, i have a hard enough time remembering peoples names and often get peoples names mixed up just on a day to day basis and have never had someone throw a hissy fit because i called them steve instead of john
the next m>f trans person i met was a massive attention whore, if it was anyone, be it man or woman and they acted how this person acted i would dislike them, grinding on everyone, bending over saying oooops i think i got something stuck to my butt who wants to check for me, again the "transphobia" remark was made to another guy who simply said "do you mind not rubbing your arse on me"
final person works with my partner and is one of the most lovely people i have met, i have seen someone accidentally slip up and say "sir" to her and she just laughed it off and said "don't worry about it", she is older than the other 2 so idk if age is a factor here, but i think many people do use the "transphobia" remark as a weapon, people can dislike a trans person and it not be transphobic,
that also said i have met many pricks who aren't trans, its not a trait exclusive to trans people, but all people in general, some of them are pricks some of them aren't
the next m>f trans person i met was a massive attention whore, if it was anyone, be it man or woman and they acted how this person acted i would dislike them, grinding on everyone, bending over saying oooops i think i got something stuck to my butt who wants to check for me, again the "transphobia" remark was made to another guy who simply said "do you mind not rubbing your arse on me"
final person works with my partner and is one of the most lovely people i have met, i have seen someone accidentally slip up and say "sir" to her and she just laughed it off and said "don't worry about it", she is older than the other 2 so idk if age is a factor here, but i think many people do use the "transphobia" remark as a weapon, people can dislike a trans person and it not be transphobic,
that also said i have met many pricks who aren't trans, its not a trait exclusive to trans people, but all people in general, some of them are pricks some of them aren't
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I personally don't care whatever gender you call yourself as long as you don't personally bother me or anyone else.
To me, this is merely a hormonal disturbance that I hope to treat rather than a victimization opportunity.
To me, this is merely a hormonal disturbance that I hope to treat rather than a victimization opportunity.
I'm not choosing sides here, (as I'd rather not step on anyone's toes) just pondering a couple questions...
There have been multiple claims here that the dislike of one who is transsexual is "Transphobic".
My question to you is, if you dislike women, is that "Gynophobia" or is it "Misogyny"?
Should there not also be a different word for the dislike vs the fear of a transsexual individual?
Second question...
"In human social behavior, discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction towards, a person based on the group, class, or category to which the person is perceived to belong." (I know it can be a crappy source but...) -Wikipedia
Would you, making an assumption of the person, based on what they identifiy as/with ("I don't like this persons lifestyle choices so I probably won't like them"), not be considered discriminatory?
And no, I do not claim that it is any sort of external discrimination, however, wouldn't it at least be some sort of internal discrimination?
I am not claiming that internal discrimination and external discrimination are on equal levels. In fact, there are severe differences between the two... However, are you at least able to accept that it is discriminatory to judge someone purely because of what they identify as/with?
If someone considers, for example, a white person, to be racist, based purely on the fact that they are a white person, and "most white people are racist" (Which IS something that [SOME] people think), and then they decide that "I probably won't like this person", is THAT not discrimination?
What if they were black and a person judged them to be violent, based purely on the fact that they are a black person, and "most black people are violent" (Which, once again, IS something that [SOME] people think), and then they decide that "I probably won't like this person", is THAT not discrimination?
Now, say they're transsexual, and you judge this person based on some (or most, I'm not sure which you assume/believe) transsexual people performing the following "An example is if you are in a situation where a trans person wants to have sex with you and you decline to do so; suddenly you're transphobic. Say, you disagree with the trans movement and you don't want to be a part of it - you're transphobic." or perhaps you disagree with their life choices, so therefore, you think "I probably won't like them", assuming that they will either, be, or are likely to be, what you would assume the majority of their sexual identity/group are like, based on those individual aspects of that individual, instead of treating them like what they are, an individual. Is that not technically discrimination?
If you can understand where I'm coming from, then you can see that, even though it's on a different level from outward discrimination, can you not agree that it is at least discriminatory?
I wouldn't go to the point of calling you trans-phobic, however, even if you didn't mean for it to be, it is still technically a form of discrimination.
Those are my questions for the day. If you have any arguments against me or my examples, I am open to discussion.
There have been multiple claims here that the dislike of one who is transsexual is "Transphobic".
My question to you is, if you dislike women, is that "Gynophobia" or is it "Misogyny"?
Should there not also be a different word for the dislike vs the fear of a transsexual individual?
Second question...
"In human social behavior, discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction towards, a person based on the group, class, or category to which the person is perceived to belong." (I know it can be a crappy source but...) -Wikipedia
Would you, making an assumption of the person, based on what they identifiy as/with ("I don't like this persons lifestyle choices so I probably won't like them"), not be considered discriminatory?
And no, I do not claim that it is any sort of external discrimination, however, wouldn't it at least be some sort of internal discrimination?
I am not claiming that internal discrimination and external discrimination are on equal levels. In fact, there are severe differences between the two... However, are you at least able to accept that it is discriminatory to judge someone purely because of what they identify as/with?
If someone considers, for example, a white person, to be racist, based purely on the fact that they are a white person, and "most white people are racist" (Which IS something that [SOME] people think), and then they decide that "I probably won't like this person", is THAT not discrimination?
What if they were black and a person judged them to be violent, based purely on the fact that they are a black person, and "most black people are violent" (Which, once again, IS something that [SOME] people think), and then they decide that "I probably won't like this person", is THAT not discrimination?
Now, say they're transsexual, and you judge this person based on some (or most, I'm not sure which you assume/believe) transsexual people performing the following "An example is if you are in a situation where a trans person wants to have sex with you and you decline to do so; suddenly you're transphobic. Say, you disagree with the trans movement and you don't want to be a part of it - you're transphobic." or perhaps you disagree with their life choices, so therefore, you think "I probably won't like them", assuming that they will either, be, or are likely to be, what you would assume the majority of their sexual identity/group are like, based on those individual aspects of that individual, instead of treating them like what they are, an individual. Is that not technically discrimination?
If you can understand where I'm coming from, then you can see that, even though it's on a different level from outward discrimination, can you not agree that it is at least discriminatory?
I wouldn't go to the point of calling you trans-phobic, however, even if you didn't mean for it to be, it is still technically a form of discrimination.
Those are my questions for the day. If you have any arguments against me or my examples, I am open to discussion.
Yes, I agree that to some extent you are discriminating internally against the person - to the same extent I would be discriminating against concord jelly by not liking it the first time I see it.
This is no reason to use the term transphobic to hush others peoples freedom of speech, make them conform to your standards or otherwise try to control them and it's not reason to then, when denied these actions, to go all nuts and take things even further down the line. Requesting all "transphobic" conversation not to take place is exactly what Christians used to do to the LGBTQ community in their Churches and around their communities.
Same here. I see people going around all of the time making racist remarks about my race or gender, but not to me personally so I ignore it. It's not my job to try to silence the opinion of everyone else when it doesn't fit into my own perspective. Not saying that there aren't times that I will outline the fact they are being racist, but I haven't made it my mission in life to control them. I don't go reporting hatred towards men or general verbal abuses towards being white in an attempt to silence their viewpoints.
I'm fine with others labeling me whatever they want - just not trying to use a word that doesn't apply to the situation in an attempt to control others. Maybe the if label were accurate and they weren't trying to shut down my opposing views then I wouldn't have such a problem with it. Which remember, I'm open to dating a trans person, have had trans friends (and still would if I wouldn't have moved recently) - I just don't agree with the current trans movement or the life style choices of most of the people that are in it. Which, I'm older, so my friends trans friends also considered what is going on now a days foolish. I'll also take your bait for the political spin on things, so I also don't agree with the media and politicians in general using the issue to their advantage when they clearly don't care about us in the LGBTQ community.
I've been trying to explain that the definition includes stuff like extreme (in your definitions case, strong) for some time now. People aren't buying it because it doesn't fit in-line with their purpose. They should have really picked or made up a better word (that doesn't change the fact I still don't agree with how they are using the word).
I look at the hatred being spewed from the members of their own community towards each other and think to myself "I really don't want to move into this dirty, nasty trailer park" (aka - I don't want to be a part of this community).
It's happened enough that there are posts all over the Internet about it and if someone doesn't put the spot light on it then it'll only get worse. If I were to approach a random Latino women in her mid 30's on the street and demand sex and she declined and I called her a bad name in an attempt to shame her in front of her friends into having sex with me I think should would be in her right to call the police and also sue me for harassment. Are you now going to defend sexual predators, because no one likes sexual predators?
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