Can We Stop With The Name Calling Already ...

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    If you're into discussing hot button race or sex issues you're going to run into words like "bigot, racist, transphobic, etc ..." a lot. I mean, a freaking lot. Most of the time they are being used to control you and make the argument one sided. An example is if you are in a situation where a trans person wants to have sex with you and you decline to do so; suddenly you're transphobic. Say, you disagree with the trans movement and you don't want to be a part of it - you're transphobic. I mean, what ever happened to mutual consent or having a personal preference?

    I came across an article by a transgender women who is "sick and tired of seeing people being subject to character assassination because apparently they’re transphobic. In many cases, these people are either absolutely not transphobic, or accusing them of transphobia is a stretch (or somewhere in between)." She said "Whatever your views are on transgender issues, chances are, you’re not transphobic. Real transphobia involves irrational behaviour and denies trans people a ‘fair go’ not at the expense of others. Real transphobia is physically hurting someone because they’re trans, or not hiring the best job candidate just because they’re trans. Transphobia can be real, but fake transphobia is also real, and throwing (or threatening to throw) fake transphobia accusations around, especially in public discourse, does not help the transgender cause."

    I have a problem with REAL transphobia. The definition of a phobia includes an extreme aversion to something - not a general aversion. The term is being used out of context and too often. When people hear it they are like "Wait, am I being this?" and if you're asking yourself this question the answer is more than likely "no". People who would physically assault a trans person wouldn't think twice about asking themselves if they are a genuine transphobic person (in which case - they would be).

    If I were working at a McDonald's and a trans person walked into the store and I thought to myself "I don't like this persons lifestyle choices so I probably won't like them" and proceeded to smile, ask them what they wanted, took their money and brought them their food I would not be doing anything transphobic. If I were working at a McDonald's and a trans person walked into the store and I thought to myself "I don't like this persons lifestyle choices so I probably won't like them" and proceeded to laugh at them, ask them what they wanted, took their money, short changed them and brought them their food (in which I spat in) I would be transphobic. Do you not see the difference?

    The people who are overusing the term transphobic are part of the problem and are doing their cause more harm than anything else. The same can also be said and examples given in other hot button topics with terms like racist or bigot. Chances are too, in these cases, you're not!

    When I see people overusing these terms to try to get moderators to shut down opposing opinions, shame you into having sex with them, participating in character assassination, trying to force you to use language only they support or basically get their own way all I see is people throwing hate for the purpose of control. It's my own personal opinion and I shouldn't have to apologize for it nor am I going to and if you fall into this trap of deception and control I'd advise you to take a stand against it.
     
  2. Captain_N

    Captain_N GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    I actually dont give a crap about transgender people. They can do what ever they want. just dont get in my face about it. As for dating, i only date women that have a XX chromosome. That is my choice. I work with both a trans girl and a trans man. i get along fine with them because i dont care what they are.
     
  3. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    That's a good way to go about it. I also don't agree with the transgender movement or the lifestyle usually related to it, but you won't see me physically assaulting anyone just because they are trans. If anyone, no matter who you are - nationality, race, gender - try to force me into sexual relations by playing mind games (like in the example I linked to) then we'd have a serious problem.
     
  4. leafeon34

    leafeon34 Bye

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    If I'm going to get into a relationship or have sex with someone I have the right to know whether she has two X chromosomes. If she does not, our relationship will be strictly platonic.
     
  5. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Guru

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    No.
    If people are a variation of transphobic, it's not wrong to call them that.

    You don't agree with transgender people and their lifestyle? That in itself is irrational, what's there to not agree about?

    Not acting on your transphobia openly doesn't make you less of a transphobe, the same way it doesn't make a racist less of a racist if they just keep their irrational feelings bottled up.
     
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  6. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict

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    Pretty much these. I'm not trans phobic for wanting to date only a biological women. I don't agree with being trans, but as long as you're not talking to kids about this shit, and trying to get them to be trans, then I'm completely fine with it. Kids cannot consent and aren't old enough to decide if they want to be trans or not. As for adults, do what ever you want with your body, as long as it's legal, and not hurting others.

    Same goes with being gay. As long as it's two consenting adults, then I don't care what you do in the bedroom, as long as it isn't illegal, and isn't harming others.
     
    Last edited by Viri, Jun 5, 2019
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  7. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    I don't agree with the transgender movement or the lifestyle that most of the transgender people lead. I'm in no way phobic of them. I don't treat a person differently due to the fact they are transgender. You can want to, in your mind, kill your coworker because you don't like him - that doesn't make you a murderer. If I meet a trans person that I am attracted to and things work out then good, but in no way, shape or form is anyone going to tell me if I refuse to have sex with them that I am being transphobic.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    The parents are the ones who address this issue. If you are addressing it then you are falling into a dark place.
     
    Last edited by cots, Jun 5, 2019
  8. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Guru

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    Here's the thing, neither you, nor whomever you linked in your first post, have the monopoly on defining words.

    Transphobia is widely used to describe (per Wikipedia) the range of negative attitudes, feelings or actions toward transgender or transsexual people, or toward transsexuality. Transphobia can be emotional disgust, fear, violence, anger, or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to society's gender expectation.
    Transphobia isn't depending on your physical actions, it's first and foremost depending on your mindset.

    Your example doesn't apply, because unlike being a transphobe, being a murderer requires explicit physical action.


    You're not accepting of transgender people. You pretend like there's a typical lifestyle and behaviors associated with it, meaning you're stereotyping transgender people.
    You have a negative attitude and feelings towards transgender. You don't accept people for an arbitrary reason, because you perceive them to be different. Thus, you are a transphobe.

    You don't want to be called transphobe? Then stop being transphobic.
     
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  9. Memoir

    Memoir Just a Memory

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    Somewhere, over there!
    Simply disagreeing with the movement is not transphobic. That's a very closed minded view you have, there. Ironic, even. Attaching -phobic as a scapegoat to a disagreement is petty. Don't sit here and tell me that I have to agree with the blanket definitions of what it means to be transgender. I can respect the people, but I don't have to follow their belief. If that's the case then I'm Xenophobic for not agreeing with every country's religions. It's wrong, and you know it. You're passionate about the subject, I get it. Labeling someone as transphobic when they're clearly not is desperate.

    What's funny is that society twists phobias to meet the current agendas. Even if it makes zero sense. Thus creating and enforcing buzzwords to garner hype and gain traction on otherwise minor issues. No, I'm not talking about the blatant hate that certain groups of people get for being who they are. I'm talking about the divide among what should be a unified race. Joke's on me, though. I'm a white, cis-gendered male. So, my opinions and views are instantly null and I'm wrong according to modern definitions.
     
    Last edited by Memoir, Jun 5, 2019
  10. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    You're talking about defining words and then you're sourcing Wikipedia. Not the best source for information as it is clearly influenced by modern beliefs and not sourced from clear definitions (like in a normal dictionary). Also, the Wikipedia article talks about a "range" of stuff and conveniently left out the "extreme" parts, but the entire article goes against the actual definitions, common sense and of what most level headed people agree upon. So, guess what. I don't agree with the Wikipedia definition.

    If I see someone who is trans and have some emotional disguest that's no different then seeing pickles on my hamburger and thinking "ew". I don't have a phobia of pickles; I just don't like them.

    I don't agree with the modern movement and how the transgender people are dealing with it nor do I agree with the typical behaviors, which I am basing on what I've personally seen. I do admit, not every trans person is going to be the same nor do I judge every single one of them based on what I've experienced, but you have to start somewhere. If 95% of a certain group of people act in a certain manner you're going to base how you judge the group by that number. Is it wrong to judge an entire group based on the majority of their actions? I don't have a problem with that because that's how most things work and usually no one has a problem with it. It's only when it goes against their "cause" is when they have a problem with the time tested method. Usually, if you have a 95% chance of surviving a liver biopsy you're think "Well, I might as well get it done because I most likely won't die".

    From what I've seen there are typical lifestyle choices and behaviors associated with it - like the overuse and misuse of the term "transphobic".

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    I'm a white, male and a LGBTQ member. It's funny how your race or your sexual orientation are deciding factors in whether or not your views are invalid. So you have people judging your opinions based on your race, sex and then calling you transphobic. Am I the only one that sees anything wrong with this?
     
    Last edited by cots, Jun 5, 2019
  11. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Guru

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    Transsexuality isn't a movement. It's not an agenda either. And it's not a belief-system.

    You guys keep comparing it to other shit it's not comparable too.

    No, you are not a xenophobe for not sharing another religions faith.

    Yes, you are a transphobe for believing that transsexuals are somehow 'not acceptable'.




    Of course, that definition has a source beyond wikipedia, namely Chakraborti, Neil; Garland, Jon (2009). Hate Crime: Impact, Causes and Responses. and Chrisler, Donald R.; McCreary, Joan C. (2010). Handbook of Gender Research in Psychology, Volume 2.

    Yes, you do not define words. I do not define words. Society defines words and wikipedia is a very easily accessible collection of such agreed upon definitions. It's not randomly made up by some redditors or whatever, there is consent among professionals with expertise in the field. That makes that definition infinitely more accurate than your 'well it's only transphobic if people get hurt' bullshit.

    But here, dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transphobia
    Definition of transphobia
    : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender people


    How is it leaving out 'extreme' parts? Violence, it's clearly there.
    You are not common sense and level headed in this, you're clearly just upset because you're a homophobe and people are calling you out for it, so you're comming to this dumbass gamerforum looking for support like a little child.

    Of course there's a difference between disgust towards pickles and disgust towards human beings.

    Again 'modern movement' and 'typical behaviors', define that. What movement beyond 'We'd like to be accepted without this kind of bullshit?' What typical behavior besides the inherent changing of gender and taking of hormones?

    95%? Let me guess the source for that number: Your ass.
    You're literally saying you judge them all based on your miniscule personal experience.

    You are a transphobe.
     
  12. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Guru

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    Dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people is transphobia, so being against the trans movement in general is transphobic. The kind of prejudice required to immediately judge a person for being trans and assuming you probably won't like the person solely on the basis of him or her being trans is transphobia.

    Swap trans for black in your post, for example, and you'll see how prejudicial and deplorable it is.
     
    Last edited by Lacius, Jun 5, 2019
  13. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Okay...this is one weird topic. I'll only go into the first paragraph, but I think I can reply to just about anything.
    The way I see it, those articles are about single case issues that a writer tries to elevate to the entire transgender population. I'm not really sure what the point is. So some transgender people can be assholes/cunts. Okay, not very fun for the community. But I wouldn't assume that their behavior says anything about the others.

    Heck, let's drop the hypothetical shit and talk reality: I have a few transgender friends. I've been a bit closer with one of 'em, so I can't exclude the possibility she wanted sex with me. could have happened. What couldn't have happened, however, is that she, anyone else of that circle and most likely no one else (aside perhaps one or two individuals from that article) would somehow blame me for having a sexual preference that excludes them either for their gender, appearance, character or whatever else that might be my reason not to have sex with anyone. It's called mutual respect for one another, and it's fairly common where I come from.

    Now here's what I think: that some cis-normalized people are too narrow minded to be comfortable around people with a different lifestyle, see this other lifestyle (incorrectly) as threatening, and either consciously or unconsciously act on that perception. Looks that are a bit condescending...smiles that are way too forced...tone of voice that's just a tad too bitter. You name it. Granted: it's not as bad as openly calling names at transgenders or races, but it gives them the same level of discomfort.
     
  14. bandithedoge

    bandithedoge GBAtemp Regular

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    Nobody ever in this thread said a word about transsexuals being "not acceptable".
     
  15. Bonehead

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    cots is retarded.
     
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  16. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    Disliking something doesn't make it a phobia, but an extreme dislike that would cause you to act in a manner that wouldn't harm something would be a phobia. I'm against most of the way the movement is being handled. I don't see a trans person and suddenly think "I'm not going to like this person because they are trans". I do however take into consideration my person experiences with trans members and the life style choices that trans people usually make when considering who I would want to be around - this is no different than choosing what social group I would like to participate in or who I would want to play an online game with. When I meet someone, the first thing in my mind isn't "what is their skin color or are they LGBTQ". Not to say that never happens, but usually I'm more worried about how they are going to treat me or if they noticed that I'm wearing the same shirt I had on yesterday.

    Say for example I see a bunch of people using drugs at a local night club. Not everyone is using them, but I'm going to avoid that club.

    Or, if a group of people are playing Halo. Not my sort of game. I generally dislike FPS. So I'm not going to join their group and play the game with them.

    You could swap out "black" for "trans", but we're not talking about an entire race of people. They sort of relate, but not equally. I've dated people that were black or otherwise dark skinned from different ethnicities.
     
    Last edited by cots, Jun 5, 2019
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  17. Snugglevixen

    Snugglevixen Princess of Cuddles

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    On your lap.
    I often see trans issues get distorted and often it seems to stem from people on the side of trans rights.

    IDK what they're trying to preach to me because they can't seem to all agree on what it is about.

    I know trans people who feel the need to tell me they're not a part of the trans community and activist nonsense, because they don't feel the movement represents their needs. Which are access to meds and surgery to be in the body they feel comfortable with. They don't care about which bathroom they use and they don't want people to accept them in their pre transition body.

    All the virtue signalling about letting men in the women's bathroom just cos they say they identify as a woman without having anything to show for it and throwing third gender theory under the trans umbrella etc, just attracts negative attention and fuels the ignorance on the other side.

    And why is it treated like a political issue? It's just people going to a doctor to resolve a problem they're having with their body.
     
    Last edited by Snugglevixen, Jun 5, 2019
  18. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    Depending on who you ask you tend to get a different definition which is used or interpreted in a manner of their choosing. I'm going to stick with the definition of "phobia" from a normal dictionary. Wikipedia is known to be completely and utterly biased.

    I'm LGBTQ and I'm definitively not part of the modern movement. I have no interest in the way people are portraying themselves or trying to push their beliefs and opinions on other people.

    The political aspect is the fact that the LGBTQ community is being used by both major political parties to further their agendas. Yes, used. The democrats and republicans are using us as tools to get what they want. I've seen it happen throughout the last 20 some years that I've actually been paying attention to how politics work. Once they are done with us they'll move on to the next group of people and we'll become "old news".
     
    Last edited by cots, Jun 5, 2019
  19. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan

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    I have pretty much nothing to say on this issue other than to tell everyone on the temp that the linked article by the op is about a woman who a long time ago was disowned by the British trans community for her actions. India Willoughby does not represent the believes or actions of the British trans community and I find it abhorrent her actions are being used to discredit the trans community at large. This joke of a woman does not represent us and never will. And that's all I have to say on the matter.
     
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  20. cots
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    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    Disowned you say? That makes me like her even more. I'll have to read up on why this happened. Thanks for the input.
     
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