Hacking $80 Gateway card worth it?

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Foxi4

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I only have a DSTWO, and you know, thinking back...R4s are shit lol, there are so many of them and it's so convoluted as to which ones function and which ones are garbage that IMO anything with the R4 label is an immediate pass just to simplify matters.

All things considered, the DSTwo is still a pretty cheap solution compared to how convoluted flashcarts used to be. Like I said in another thread, just a few years ago you'd be lucky to have a backup launching-capable kit for less than $200 and it was not really convenient to use (loading one game at a time over USB onto scarce built-in memory via a custom adapter... Mmm...). The community got very comfortable with sub-$50, SD-based, drag-and-drop, plug-and-play devices and completely forgot that using flashcarts used to be extremely problematic. This sudden "ease" of flashcart infrastructures caused a "boom" in the community which is why standards have shifted. ;)


If that's all the proof you have, you might as well try to stop convincing me that its fine to charge people $80 for something that merely plays a pirated game.
Just examples off the top of my head, really - this was a generally accepted trend in pricing and the carts I showed you were nothing out of the ordinary, you're just not into flashcarts yourself (never bought one, as you stated yourself) so you don't know that. Understandable, but it further undermines your opinion... Which you are free to express and follow, just don't expect people to treat you seriously when you're foolhardily trying to pass it as fact despite evidence.
 

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There's a big difference between bitching about something an pointing out that you state your opinions as if they were facts when they're clearly not. You're entitled to your own opinion, but it's just that - an opinion. It's an overpriced rip-off for you, not necessarily for others and that doesn't make them fools or sheep as you claim - they just have a different opinion to your own and you should learn to respect that. As for your complaint about lack of homebrew, hombrew's never been the big push behind flashcart manufacture, which can be easily illustrated by how "well" iSmart cards sold... meaning they didn't sell at all because they didn't allow the users to launch ROM's. What you need is a little bit of perspective.

For the record the ismart premium was an OEM EZ5i, the ismartMM was an oem iplayer with ROM loading abilities and there were a few other interesting things going on the background (they were actual OEM for one and not clones). Now datel things like the max media, games n music and iplayer (supercard under another name) would be suitable examples to back that point.

Edit and as for vintage flash cart pricing.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://linker4u.com
http://web.archive.org/web/20061025191744/http://www.jandaman.com/games.mvc?c=GBADEVKIT (2006 no less) (2004 vintage is also available
http://web.archive.org/web/20040612195638/http://www.rbenda.de/
http://web.archive.org/web/20040510...o.uk/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=72&strPageHistory=cat
 
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Foxi4

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For the record the ismart premium was an OEM EZ5i, the ismartMM was an oem iplayer with ROM loading abilities and there were a few other interesting things going on the background (they were actual OEM for one and not clones). Now datel things like the max media, games n music and iplayer (supercard under another name) would be suitable examples to back that point.

Sorry, I actually meant the iPlayer (the one with the built-in CPU, similar to the DSTwo, just minus ROM loading?), I'll go ahead and correct that mistake. Still, my point was that "homebrew" as such is not the main driving force behind flashcarts - in fact, most customers hardly use any homebrew applications and games on the DS... which is a shame because there's quite a lot of'em and it's actually a lot of fun to program them yourself.
 

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All things considered, the DSTwo is still a pretty cheap solution compared to how convoluted flashcarts used to be. The community got very comfortable with sub-$50 drag-and-drop, plug-and-play devices and completely forgot that using flashcarts used to be extremely problematic. This sudden "ease" of flashcart infrastructures caused a "boom" in the community which is why standards have shifted. ;)
Rightly so, technology is supposed to improve in functionality and convenience, some people actually want more for their money. The functionality curve almost always severely drops off in the case of early next gen flash carts, so their outlook is having to pay more for less. The Gateway 3DS team isn't going to just sit on something like this (if it is indeed legit) until they have a functionally equivalent cart by today's standards just based on the fact that human avarice exists, they snooze they lose, someone else would sell their idea before them.

If Mattel ever gets around to making actual hoverboards, even if they levitate for like 20 seconds after charging for 8 hours I would still expect to see exorbitant price tags. But the absurd pricing wouldn't make me call skateboarders spoiled :P
 

Foxi4

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Rightly so, technology is supposed to improve in functionality and convenience, some people actually want more for their money. The functionality curve almost always severely drops off in the case of early next gen flash carts, so their outlook is having to pay more for less. The Gateway 3DS team isn't going to just sit on something like this (if it is indeed legit) until they have a functionally equivalent cart by today's standards just based on the fact that human avarice exists, they snooze they lose, someone else would sell their idea before them.

If Mattel ever gets around to making actual hoverboards, even if they levitate for like 20 seconds after charging for 8 hours I would still expect to see exorbitant price tags. But the absurd pricing wouldn't make me call skateboarders spoiled :P

I just wanted to underline that we've gone a very, very long way before flashcarts became affordable and convenient - several years in fact. If you're comfortable with waiting that long before a "SupeR4 3DS Ultra Dual Core Two Cache Bash" is released for $5 then you're welcome to do so. ;)
 

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Sorry, I actually meant the iPlayer (the one with the built-in CPU, similar to the DSTwo, just minus ROM loading?), I'll go ahead and correct that mistake. Still, my point was that "homebrew" as such is not the main driving force behind flashcarts - in fact, most customers hardly use any homebrew applications and games on the DS... which is a shame because there's quite a lot of'em and it's actually a lot of fun to program them yourself.

No argument there. I always find it quite amusing to wander into various threads that want remakes/ports of amiga vintage games and say "you mean like this which has existed for 4 years at this point which *checks* is about the the same amount of time since you got your first flash cart". I am pretty sure we do not need to sell each other on the virtues of homebrew code though.

Now if we want a conversation -- we already saw the idevice/android world pull focus from homebrew as the DS went on. What chance is there of the 3ds being able to create a healthy homebrew environment similar to the GBA and early DS?

It seems archive.org has also amassed a fairly healthy database of vintage flash cart vendors (which is to say GBA though the GBA was hugely popular compared to what came before) if we somehow must back up the point of such things being expensive.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://linker4u.com
http://web.archive.org/web/20061025191744/http://www.jandaman.com/games.mvc?c=GBADEVKIT (2006 no less) (2004 vintage is also available
http://web.archive.org/web/20040612195638/http://www.rbenda.de/
http://web.archive.org/web/20040510...o.uk/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=72&strPageHistory=cat

By my reckoning I now have some of the most noted vendors in Hong Kong, North America, mainland Europe and the UK.
 

Foxi4

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Now if we want a conversation -- we already saw the idevice/android world pull focus from homebrew as the DS went on. What chance is there of the 3ds being able to create a healthy homebrew environment similar to the GBA and early DS?

There are a few things the 3DS does that the DS or most Android handsets don't though, which can be considered incentive for many coders. First and foremost, the 3DS does... well, 3D - how cool is that? There's not a lot of phones that have a 3D screen, I can think of only two, one being Sharp's own brand, the other being the LG Optimus 3D. Controls are another thing - you can only do so much with a touchscreen and connecting a physical controller is both an extra expense and a chore. There is some potential in the 3DS.

Similarily, the push for PSVita homebrew would be the controls but also the specs - it practically has the guts of an "iPad 3.5" without having to rely on iOS (it's powered by FreeBSD instead) with a much smaller, more game-oriented form factor, a touchscreen and twin analog sticks, there is a lot one could do on the system in terms of homebrew applications...

...but again, homebrew never was and never will be a selling point of backup devices - it's a pleasure of a select, narrow audience.
 

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This cart is utterly useless if it doesn't put the save onto the game's microSD... I wouldn't mind if it sook a separate microSD just for save files, as long as my saves didn't require a stupid hardware dongle to extract and write to.
 

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I think our best bet is to focus on the rom decryption keys, and try loading exploits by rom-injection. Now that we finally have the Gateway, it could act as a potential trojan horse for new exploits within the roms themselves. Just a thought, I don't know how or where the firmware updates are stored within the game rom, but that could be a potential exploit to look at as well.
 

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I can already carry multiple games around in my 3DS thanks to the Eshop so I don't need this card, unless that is to steal the games I don't want to pay for. Na, what a waste, probably will die on an update anyways which means I could buy even 2 more games with the money I'll save buy not buying it.
 

DiabloStorm

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Here's what would happen if nobody buys the product:
  • Price does go down because the manufacturer needs to cut losses and make up for their expenses
  • No second batch is manufactured because there doesn't seem to be any demand for the item
  • Nobody creates clones because there is no demand for the product in question
  • "Gateway is closed"
Lol are you delusional?
I agree with the first bullet-point but then you completely lose me. Nobody goes into manufacturing these without first realizing the blatant demand for them to begin with. The demand is everywhere, common sense would tell gateway 3ds that if nobody was buying then their price point is what the problem is, not a so-called lack of demand. Someone who would make a novice mistake like that and end production completely would have to be a moron. All anybody has to do is search 3DS flashcarts on google to see what type of demand there is, the demand is so high that a thread was specifically made on this very website just to shut people up so they stop asking if a cart exists.

I'm not in marketing but I guarantee a lot of people would buy this after a review on here surfaces even if they cut the price by 75%
 

FAST6191

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Lol are you delusional?
I agree with the first bullet-point but then you completely lose me. Nobody goes into manufacturing these without first realizing the blatant demand for them to begin with. The demand is everywhere, common sense would tell gateway 3ds that if nobody was buying then their price point is what the problem is, not a so-called lack of demand. Someone who would make a novice mistake like that and end production completely would have to be a moron. All anybody has to do is search 3DS flashcarts on google to see what type of demand there is, the demand is so high that a thread was specifically made on this very website just to shut people up so they stop asking if a cart exists.

I'm not in marketing but I guarantee a lot of people would buy this after a review on here surfaces even if they cut the price by 75%

Can I have a flying pony (note not a pegasus) too?
 
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DiabloStorm

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Can I have a flying pony (note not a pegasus) too?
Enjoy
Rainbow_Dash_performing_Sonic_Rainboom_S01E16.png
 

Foxi4

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Lol are you delusional?
I agree with the first bullet-point but then you completely lose me. Nobody goes into manufacturing these without first realizing the blatant demand for them to begin with. The demand is everywhere, common sense would tell gateway 3ds that if nobody was buying then their price point is what the problem is, not a so-called lack of demand.
Okay, how do you call a situation where there's a "supposedly" high demand for a product and yet it doesn't sell? Apparently the demand isn't as high as originally expected - simple. As for the price point, I'll elaborate on that below.
Someone who would make a novice mistake like that and end production completely would have to be a moron. All anybody has to do is search 3DS flashcarts on google to see what type of demand there is, the demand is so high that a thread was specifically made on this very website just to shut people up so they stop asking if a cart exists.
There very well may be demand for a flashcart, but people put their expectations too high when the system isn't even full-on hacked yet. Apparently there's only demand for $10-$15 flashcarts which do everything from 3DS ROM Loading through laundry to blowjobs, and that's unrealistic, not to mention not profitable for the manufacturer. When a product brings colossal losses and doesn't sell, you stop manufacturing a product unless lowering the price point made any kind of difference and began making profits, not just returns.
I'm not in marketing but I guarantee a lot of people would buy this after a review on here surfaces even if they cut the price by 75%
The problem with the Gateway is that it's first of its kind - it not only has to sell, "it has to pay for daddy's new pair of shoes" too, meaning the expenses of preparing a production line with no real "example" of how the process is supposed to look like - the situation is nothing like that of the R4-like cartridges. The schematics for Gateway don't grow on trees wheras R4 schematics are so widely-available that you could make wallpaper out of them, hence the number of clones. The cartridge is different, the materials are different, the schematics are different, the process as a whole is different and preparing all that entails costs - costs that need to be covered by the first batches of the carts. Unlike a big company, "two hackers from China" don't have the financial backing to save a sinking ship - if the flashcart won't sell, nobody in their right mind would indebt themselves in order to save it from obscurity.
 

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$80 is understandable for his kind of product. It's the first of its kind. On the other hand, it's probably not the best investment. For $80, you could go buy some legit games, and use those to tide yourselves over, until a Flashcart you like is released on the market. It's that easy.
 
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DiabloStorm

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Okay, how do you call a situation where there's a "supposedly" high demand for a product and yet it doesn't sell? Apparently the demand isn't as high as originally expected - simple. As for the price point, I'll elaborate on that below.

There very well may be demand for a flashcart, but people put their expectations too high when the system isn't even full-on hacked yet. Apparently there's only demand for $10-$15 flashcarts which do everything from 3DS ROM Loading through laundry to blowjobs, and that's unrealistic, not to mention not profitable for the manufacturer. When a product brings colossal losses and doesn't sell, you stop manufacturing a product unless lowering the price point made any kind of difference and began making profits, not just returns.

The problem with the Gateway is that it's first of its kind - it not only has to sell, "it has to pay for daddy's new pair of shoes" too, meaning the expenses of preparing a production line with no real "example" of how the process is supposed to look like - the situation is nothing like that of the R4-like cartridges. The schematics for Gateway don't grow on trees wheras R4 schematics are so widely-available that you could make wallpaper out of them, hence the number of clones. The cartridge is different, the materials are different, the schematics are different, the process as a whole is different and preparing all that entails costs - costs that need to be covered by the first batches of the carts.
What they expended leading up to the creation of this cart isn't any concern to the customers, they aren't buying that, they're buying the end result. What they're buying seriously can't cost much more than $5 to create and that's being generous. A tiny pcb, a few chips, an sd slot, plastic for the case, contacts and a sticker. It's not on them to front the production bill, utility bill, stocking fees etc. otherwise the R4 could have never afforded to sell as cheap as it did unless you take those factors into consideration there, too. Or do you think they chose to sell at a loss? The materials are incredibly similar.
 

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What they expended leading up to the creation of this cart isn't any concern to the customers, they aren't buying that, they're buying the end result. What they're buying seriously can't cost much more than $5 to create and that's being generous. A tiny pcb, a few chips, an sd slot, plastic for the case, contacts and a sticker.
Of course it's of no concern to the consumer, except the manufacturer won't sell a product at a price point that doesn't satisfy his needs. The costs of making the device need to be covered whether the consumer likes it or not.

It's not on them to front the production bill, utility bill, stocking fees etc. otherwise the R4 could have never afforded to sell as cheap as it did unless you take those factors into consideration there, too. Or do you think they chose to sell at a loss? The materials are incredibly similar.
Yeah, that's not true. The beauty about the R4-like designs is that there are already factories which make those and have both the machines and the personel to manufacture them on the cheap as long as you toss some money in their general direction. The Gateway is a new design and it requires more money tossed in the general direction of China to get it rolling, plus since it's first of its kind, it's natural for the manufacture to set a high profit margin.
 

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Of course it's of no concern to the consumer, except the manufacturer won't sell a product at a price point that doesn't satisfy his needs. The costs of making the device need to be covered whether the consumer likes it or not.


Yeah, that's not true. The beauty about the R4-like designs is that there are already factories which make those and have both the machines and the personel to manufacture them on the cheap as long as you toss some money in their general direction. The Gateway is a new design and it requires more money tossed in the general direction of China to get it rolling, plus since it's first of its kind, it's natural for the manufacture to set a high profit margin.
I think we'll figure that out when Devin pops one of these open, chinese factories are pretty versatile, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to just make slight adjustments to enable them to pop out gateway 3ds's simple design.
 
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