If You Are in Favor of Open Borders. Why?

[Saiyan Lusitano]

I'm not looking to create a discussion between open vs closed/controlled borders but rather know why pro-open border folks like (or support) it so much.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

No idea. Anybody that does support open borders does not understand how it could completely kill an economy and puts it's citizens at risk.

 

[notimp]

In which context?

Open borders within the EU are there to facilitate free movements of people, goods and money.

States usually have tariffs and taxes in place to safeguard their own economies, meaning, they have to control what gets into a country.

This process takes weeks, months. And it takes longer the more you want to disincentivize the import of a certain good.

When you then make trading unions, all of a sudden you have to remove borders, because the main benefit to trading unions is, that you remove all those barriers, save money for both sides, save people time, raise efficiencies, support different business models, ...

Basically within Europe nowadays we dont have much storage capability anymore - because our industries work "hand to mouth", so you import raw materials, and then use them to manufacture your goods as they come in. That makes everyone involved more competitive - because they save costs.

Now - when you've done away with borders for wares and goods, you basically will want to talk about doing the same for your own citizens. Also because of economic reasons, because it solves allocation issues.

(Germany currently needs medical workers for an overaging population, and they are willing to pay. Italy has a financial crisis and high youth unemployment > Italians take a 6 week german course and move to germany to work for their old folks. Business likes this very much.)


Your "outer borders" (at the edges of a trade zone) are pretty much always hard borders. (With people controlling whos transitioning.)

America has open borders between states for example. But you then also have a system that can give money from richer states to poorer states to keep them at least "functioning", or help them out in a crisis f.e. - so basically with open borders you save everyone money and time, and get bigger markets (one ruleset instead of lets say 15 important for exports from other countries > who then are more willing to trade with you, ...) - but you also have to keep everyone roughly at the same economic "competitiveness" level, because if you do not - one state would start to undercut the other, or one state would want to refuse to payback state loans (if they see the system as unfair) - and then the system gets unstable.

 

[IncredulousP]

Glory to Arstotzka.

 

[notimp]

There is also "opening a border" for humanitarian reasons. In which case, you basically let a usually substantial number of immigrants into a certain country.

This is basically done to prevent an "acute crisis".

So you have lets say 50.000 people in one country, that want into another country, and the country they are in cant handle the situation anymore, and they start to march....

... then you still cant shoot or let them camp out on your border for years ...

so you open your borders, let them register, and then slowly deal with them over time. (However you politically decide...)

This is done, so you dont have images of humanitarian catastrophes within or at your borders on TV all the time.

That usually doesnt happen very often as well.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Glory to Arstotzka.

Papers please!

(Play it. )

 

[Naendow]

I hink it depends. The idea behind the EU is pretty good, even if you can argue how it works at the moment. But i.e. opened borders for pretty much every country in the world would be the biggest chaos that could happen.

 

[Cyan]

You forget that USA has open border on each USA's states too. I can imagine that's what EU wanted to achieve.
edit: Ah, notimp already said it before me.

Do you mean open border withing europe, or with outside countries? or just in general from any country?
I don't know what I really think, I guess I'm used to see a lot of people from many countries, lot of immigrants, and not only from Europe. I don't see a lot of refugees, my nearest country's border is blocking them. but if they manage to pass through, they want to go to UK so we don't notice them in my town.
I don't know enough the political or economical subject to tell whether it's good or bad.

 

[notimp]

The correct english word for "trading union" is customs union btw. "Trading union" is more descriptive though...

 

[blahblah]

GBATemp is not a website for right wing neo-fascist garbage. Please, go away. Go back to Facebook.

 

[the_randomizer]

GBATemp is not a website for right wing neo-fascist garbage. Please, go away. Go back to Facebook.

It's not really a website for left-wing extremist views, either. Either extreme view is pure garbage.

To hell with illegal immigration. Key word, "illegal".

 

[DeadlyFoez]

It's not really a website for left-wing extremist views, either. Either extreme view is pure garbage.

To hell with illegal immigration. Key word, "illegal".

But, if you are to be an extremist, it is better to be a right wing one than a left wing.

 

[the_randomizer]

But, if you are to be an extremist, it is better to be a right wing on than a left wing.

I wish to stay neutral on the topic, politics do nothing more than divide people and ruin friendships. Political discussion don't bridge gaps, nor do they benefit people on different sides of the spectrum IMO.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I wish to stay neutral on the topic, politics do nothing more than divide people and ruin friendships. Political discussion don't bridge gaps, nor do they benefit people on different sides of the spectrum IMO.

Lol. You said it best. As long as no one is trying to say that socialism or communism is best, then we can all fight for world peace together.

 

[IncredulousP]

It's not really a website for left-wing extremist views, either. Either extreme view is pure garbage.

To hell with illegal immigration. Key word, "illegal".

In some cases, illegal immigration can be a result of extreme policies affecting the bureaucratic processes of attaining citizenship. Situations like immigration are complex, and we should all know better than to immediately condemn anything considered "illegal" without rigorous, productive debate.

 

[the_randomizer]

Lol. You said it best. As long as no one is trying to say that socialism or communism is best, then we can all fight for world peace together.

Exactly, I'm comfortable being cynical about political discussions, they never benefit anyone talking about it, no issues ever get resolved with political debates

In some cases, illegal immigration can be a result of extreme policies affecting the bureaucratic processes of attaining citizenship. Situations like immigration are complex, and we should all know better than to immediately condemn anything considered "illegal" without rigorous, productive debate.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but we need better immigration laws and more vetting to make sure issues are curtailed. Illegal immigrants shouldn't have the same rights as naturalized citizens. If the law is broken by illegal entry, it's a crime, IMO.

 

[IncredulousP]

Political discussion don't bridge gaps, nor do they benefit people on different sides of the spectrum IMO.

Constructive, civil political discussion certainly can bridge gaps, and saying it won't benefit people on either side is further establishing a divide between political ideas. We must, calmly and with open minds, discuss the roots of our beliefs so we may all grow and understand each other, and ourselves, more.

 

[the_randomizer]

Constructive, civil political discussion certainly can bridge gaps, and saying it won't benefit people on either side is further establishing a divide between political ideas. We must, calmly and with open minds, discuss the roots of our beliefs so we may all grow and understand each other, and ourselves, more.

I've yet to see that on any forum, to be perfectly blunt, here, IGN, Facebook, civil constructive political debates are rare. Anyone who dares support one side, like say Republican views, I've always seen people who are Democrats ridicule and vilify them for not believing the same views. It's asinine and unnecessarily toxic, and that alone has permanently ruined any and all political discussion. It's going to take a miracle to change my mind on that. I'm just being honest on why I try to avoid such discussions, no matter what I say or express, the other side will say I'm wrong, I'm blinded, or that I have to believe a certain way. Why can't people agree to disagree and move on civilly. Is that so much to ask?

 

[IncredulousP]

But, if you are to be an extremist, it is better to be a right wing one than a left wing.

Extremists gaslight, project, obstruct justice, and commit terroristic murders. This on any side is bad.

edited for less bias

 

[the_randomizer]

Btw, right extremists gaslight, project, obstruct justice, and commit terroristic murders. Left extremists go homeless advocating for the abolishment of social and economic inequity.

Extremists shouldn't exist, period. Like Animal Rights groups, they don't really care about animals but only to shove their asinine views in how people shouldn't own any animals, even goldfish or cats. PETA, HSUS, ALF, are all extremist animal rights groups that have no right to exist. Animal welfare on the other hand, is much better and more moderate, and are for responsible animal care and advocate for ownership. PETA can die in a fire for all I care. I often call them AR Nazis because that's what they are.

But speaking of politics, let's use Trump for an example, let's say someone supports him, but not all he does and still voted for him, but still cares for others and has compassion for others, and doesn't agree with everything the other side says, does that make it right for others to ridicule? No, it doesn't.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Btw, right extremists gaslight, project, obstruct justice, and commit terroristic murders. Left extremists go homeless advocating for the abolishment of social and economic inequity.

That is bullshit. There are crazy people on both sides. Every demographic has bad apples. Stupidity is not only within one group of people.


...although stupidity is more common on the left.