Hardware Choosing Low-Profile GPU

[.Chris]

Right now, I have the HP s5716f, with a crappy H-Apricot-RS780L-uATX. I want to add in only a graphics card, but from the motherboard, it only has two PCI-e x1 slots. I'm on a really tight budget, so I can only spend 80$ on a PCIex1 low-profile card, and I'm currently looking at two cards. I only plan to play emulators, some modern games (high detail doesn't matter to me), on a 1024x768 monitor.

One, a Zotac NVIDIA GT 610, pretty low end, but I've seen some reviews on it, 20-35FPS on med/max settings. Basically a perfect fit for my computer, but I don't know if it will last for a few more years.

Second, a low-profile Sapphire AMD HD 7750, along with a PCIe-x1 to PCIe-x16. This is a better card than the 610, but space is a major factor in my case. The space I have is only the size of the motherboard, which is 9.6x9.6 in. This card is 9.2 x 2.5 x 6.5 in.

Which one should I pick? Also, I don't have enough money to upgrade anything, so everything from the PC I bought is unchanged.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

I don't really think you'll be able to get away with any GPU with a 220W PSU.

For example, the AMD GPU recommends a minimum of 400W, and the NVIDIA recommends 300W.

I used to have an HP Slimline desktop, and upgrading anything is going to be a big pain since they use smaller sized PSUs that hardly go above 300W.


EDIT: If you really want to upgrade, the GT 610 has a relatively lower TDP (29W compared to 55W for the 7750) so it might work for you.

 

[trumpet-205]

Don't. Many cheap OEM motherboards cannot deliver the full 75 W per PCIe slot. You'll burn the motherboard (if not the 220 W PSU) if you try. Not to mention you won't have enough space to install GPU and that PCIe riser cable.

Also the CPU on that Slimline is pretty weak for modern emulator. Going from PCIe x16 to x1 will severely cripple GPU performance.

Bottom line: save up money to replace that Slimline PC completely.

 

[.Chris]

I don't really think you'll be able to get away with any GPU with a 220W PSU.

For example, the AMD GPU recommends a minimum of 400W, and the NVIDIA recommends 300W.

I used to have an HP Slimline desktop, and upgrading anything is going to be a big pain since they use smaller sized PSUs that hardly go above 300W.

I read on some other forums that people were able to use a 220W PSU with some PCIe x1 cards. I'm not too sure if that's true though.

 

[trumpet-205]

I read on some other forums that people were able to use a 220W PSU with some PCIe x1 cards. I'm not too sure if that's true though.

Real PCIe x1 card only consumes at most 20 W. HD7750 will most certainly consumes the full 75 W.

 

[.Chris]

Don't. Many cheap OEM motherboards cannot deliver the full 75 W per PCIe slot. You'll burn the motherboard (if not the 220 W PSU) if you try. Not to mention you won't have enough space to install GPU and that PCIe riser cable.

Also the CPU on that Slimline is pretty weak for modern emulator. Going from PCIe x16 to x1 will severely cripple GPU performance.

Bottom line: save up money to replace that Slimline PC completely.

Real PCIe x1 card only consumes at most 20 W. HD7750 will most certainly consumes the full 75 W.

Ah. So if I were to choose between the two, I should get the GT610. But as you stated before, it may not provide the full 75W. Is there any way give it more power?

EDIT: Also, I cannot upgrade my whole PC completely, I will not be getting any money at all, and this is a hand-me-down from my parents, as they are upgrading completely.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

I read on some other forums that people were able to use a 220W PSU with some PCIe x1 cards. I'm not too sure if that's true though.

I would image them getting away with some PCIe x1 cards, but the performance would probably be horrid. For example, I don't think you would be able to run stuff like Skyrim above low-medium settings.

It's also entirely possible you'll burn the PSU out (or even the motherboard) if your PSU can't deliver the full amount of wattage.

Ah. So if I were to choose between the two, I should get the GT610. But as you stated before, it may not provide the full 75W. Is there any way give it more power?

EDIT: Also, I cannot upgrade my whole PC completely, I will not be getting any money at all, and this is a hand-me-down from my parents, as they are upgrading completely.

No, unless you want to buy a new PSU. But as I said earlier, the PSUs in the HP Slimline's are a smaller size that hardly ever go above 300W, and they can cost a pretty penny too.

 

[trumpet-205]

Ah. So if I were to choose between the two, I should get the GT610. But as you stated before, it may not provide the full 75W. Is there any way give it more power?

My recommendation is to save up that $80 till you have enough money to replace the entire PC. $60 on GT610 is a wasteful spending. If you are so keen on GT610 you can find it a lot cheaper used on ebay.

GT610 won't improve performance that much. There is no way to modify motherboard to deliever full 75 W per PCIe slot. All OEM motherboards are designed bare minimum.

 

[Oxybelis]

Voted for HD 7750 because it's better before reading about power. Yeah maybe it's too powerful for this system.
I would not buy anything for this system.

 

[C-Kronos]

Get a job and save the money you have until you can afford a new computer, you're not going to get a GPU that'll improve your performance all that noticeably for a PCI-E slot, lol.. You /might/ be able to get away with maybe an N64 and PS1 emulator, but don't expect to emulate anything better than that, and forget being able to run modern games, even on the lowest settings.

What's worse is, your parents are more than likely only going to use their new computer for emails and silly Facebook games, while you have other interests that actually require more processing power and you're going to be stuck with a PoS because your parents are obviously tech illiterate for buying that machine in the first place; in my honest opinion, I wouldn't use that PC for anything but target practice.

 

[.Chris]

Get a job and save the money you have until you can afford a new computer, you're not going to get a GPU that'll improve your performance all that noticeably for a PCI-E slot, lol.. You /might/ be able to get away with maybe an N64 and PS1 emulator, but don't expect to emulate anything better than that, and forget being able to run modern games, even on the lowest settings.

What's worse is, your parents are more than likely only going to use their new computer for emails and silly Facebook games, while you have other interests that actually require more processing power and you're going to be stuck with a PoS because your parents are obviously tech illiterate for buying that machine in the first place; in my honest opinion, I wouldn't use that PC for anything but target practice.

I'm currently on the mobo ATI HD 3000, and I play Minecraft, Unreal Tornament 3, and some other FPS's.

And no, lol. My dad is very interested in 3D modeling, so I helped them build a PC. We only bought this crap excuse of a PC because it included keyboard/mouse, 1TB HDD, and a 1440x900 monitor for only $250. This PC had lasted us a little bit more than 3 years, so I guess it was worth the money.

My recommendation is to save up that $80 till you have enough money to replace the entire PC. $60 on GT610 is a wasteful spending. If you are so keen on GT610 you can find it a lot cheaper used on ebay.

GT610 won't improve performance that much. There is no way to modify motherboard to deliever full 75 W per PCIe slot. All OEM motherboards are designed bare minimum.

If I were to upgrade the whole PC, would using the Athlon II x2 260 be sufficient for gaming?
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/RobotiChris/saved/35hc

 

[trumpet-205]

If I were to upgrade the whole PC, would using the Athlon II x2 260 be sufficient for gaming?
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/RobotiChris/saved/35hc

Emulator cares quite a bit about CPU power. I'd say you need something stronger. At least Phenom II.

Since you are budget minded, have you considered APU route? Essentially a single chip with both CPU and GPU.

 

[.Chris]

Emulator cares quite a bit about CPU power. I'd say you need something stronger. At least Phenom II.

Since you are budget minded, have you considered APU route? Essentially a single chip with both CPU and GPU.

Yes, I have though about it, but the cheapest decent APU I could find is an A8-5600K at about $90, and the HD7770 is $20 cheaper.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2hRnd
The APU build is $190, while the Athlon 260 w/ HD 7770 is $150. Say I will just emulate Gamecube, and maybe a few Wii games. Will the Athlon/HD7770 be able to hold up higher than 40FPS in most games?

 

[trumpet-205]

Athlon II X2 is a very weak CPU. Many places I read shows it at best can do 30 fps.

 

[.Chris]

Athlon II X2 is a very weak CPU. Many places I read shows it at best can do 30 fps.

Ah. That's fine for me, at least. Most Gamecube games run at 30FPS max. I will later upgrade to a 6300, or better in the future. For now, this will do. Thanks for your help.

 

[trumpet-205]

Ah. That's fine for me, at least. Most Gamecube games run at 30FPS max. I will later upgrade to a 6300, or better in the future. For now, this will do. Thanks for your help.

FX processor you see now is the last of them. AMD has no plan for any new CPU carrying the name FX, or any plan to continue AM3+ sockets.

 

[Thanatos Telos]

FX processor you see now is the last of them. AMD has no plan for any new CPU carrying the name FX, or any plan to continue AM3+ sockets.

Bullshit.

Now, they haven't said anything about a new architecture, but they have not said that they are discontinuing it.

 

[trumpet-205]

Bullshit.

Now, they haven't said anything about a new architecture, but they have not said that they are discontinuing it.

When I said continue, I mean new CPU on AM3+. AMD will still sell AM3+ platform, but don't expect any new CPU or even chipset on AM3+.

If you read AMD server roadmap, you'll find that Opteron 3300 series (AM3+) will be replaced with Berlin APU with Steamroller core. Problem is AM3+ can't support APU. Most likely scenario is AMD relegate 1P server market to FM2+. Chip makers (AMD and Intel) make desktop processors from server processor to maximize SKU while keeping assembly line down to a minimum. Whatever happens on server roadmap will have a major impact on desktop roadmap.

It is very doubtful AMD will designed a successor for AM3+ platform, given how cash strapped AMD is. AMD is profitable this quarter thanks to massive order of APU from Sony and Microsoft. Take that out and you'll see AMD isn't do so well on other markets.

 

[Thanatos Telos]

When I said continue, I mean new CPU on AM3+. AMD will still sell AM3+ platform, but don't expect any new CPU or even chipset on AM3+.

If you read AMD server roadmap, you'll find that Opteron 3300 series (AM3+) will be replaced with Berlin APU with Steamroller core. Problem is AM3+ can't support APU. Most likely scenario is AMD relegate 1P server market to FM2+. Chip makers (AMD and Intel) make desktop processors from server processor to maximize SKU while keeping assembly line down to a minimum. Whatever happens on server roadmap will have a major impact on desktop roadmap.

It is very doubtful AMD will designed a successor for AM3+ platform, given how cash strapped AMD is. AMD is profitable this quarter thanks to massive order of APU from Sony and Microsoft. Take that out and you'll see AMD isn't do so well on other markets.

If you read the article, you would notice that the interview implies new CPUs ( Even more OC'd Piledrivers maybe?) for the future. Now, could we get back on topic?

 

[C-Kronos]

I'm currently on the mobo ATI HD 3000, and I play Minecraft, Unreal Tornament 3, and some other FPS's.

And no, lol. My dad is very interested in 3D modeling, so I helped them build a PC. We only bought this crap excuse of a PC because it included keyboard/mouse, 1TB HDD, and a 1440x900 monitor for only $250. This PC had lasted us a little bit more than 3 years, so I guess it was worth the money.



If I were to upgrade the whole PC, would using the Athlon II x2 260 be sufficient for gaming?
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/RobotiChris/saved/35hc

Is your dad just interested in it, or actually proficient at it? If he's just interested, then that seems like a pretty lame reason to get a new computer.

A keyboard and mouse, 1TB of HDD space, and 1440x900 low res pos monitor hardly seems worth 250 in my honest opinion, definitely not worth having to deal with the issues of a subpar rig for 3 years. No, it won't be sufficient for gaming; if you're unable to figure out what's sufficient for gaming, then you have no business helping anyone build a computer... For example, ATI HD 3000 is a GPU, not a motherboard.. Why bother mentioning Minecraft, UT3, and "other FPS's" when it hardly seems relevant to even mentioned, and they're hardly modern games (Minecraft doesn't count).

Athlon II X2 is a very weak CPU. Many places I read shows it at best can do 30 fps.

...Are you serious? trumpet-205, I'd love to hear about the unicorn of a CPU that is magically locked to running stuff at only 30 frames, lawl. If you're going to state stuff like this, be sure to hold Chris's hand on explaining that it won't run EVERY game in existence at 30 FPS, or do you even understand this yourself?

Ah. That's fine for me, at least. Most Gamecube games run at 30FPS max. I will later upgrade to a 6300, or better in the future. For now, this will do. Thanks for your help.

Chris, just because a CPU can average 30 FPS on one game doesn't mean it can on all games, I don't believe you have any idea about computer hardware.. Not to mention, the CPU is only one component, it requires a lot more than a good processor..

Also, please keep in mind that it takes a hell of a lot more processing power to emulate a game when compared to running a game natively on Windows, you probably wouldn't get 30 FPS, let alone 10 with just a decent CPU.

NOTE: Can someone please find this guy some documentation teaching him the basics of what it takes to play modern computer games, how emulators work, etc etc? It's going to be kind of difficult to give a guy advice or help him when he's obviously on a "budget" and lacks complete knowledge about computers.