Tutorial  Updated

Creating Backups of CDs Containing SecuROM New ≥ v4.8

This text will cover several ways of backing up CD-ROM¹ based software, mostly games, that are protected² with SecuROM New in version 4.8³ and higher. To keep this very long thing at least a bit little shorter, I’ll focus more on what has to be done, rather than why it is done and keep the technical background at a minimum:
The idea behind newer iterations of SecuROM is having a pattern (different for each title) of areas with lower linear density compared to the surrounding parts. This can be measured by observing the read speed/timings of reference points.
A CD-burner on the other hand, writes the data at a constant, defined size. This means, that a CD-R(W) copy will not have any deviations in linear data density across the whole spiral track and is thus easily revealed as a duplicate (and rejected of course).

I will not provide any of the needed software because of licensing questions. I have no idea if I am allowed to share all the stuff I used (not only talking about the demos of commercial software, I mean all the programs). If anybody wants to follow the TwinPeak method below, they will have to search up the stuff on their own. Most of it isn't too hard to find. Old versions of Blindwrite Suite can be found on the official VSO site with the help of the Wayback Machine.
I strongly advise against using slim (internal/external) “laptop” drives! They often have low quality, low reading capabilities, lower speed (physical limitation of the construction), fail extracting good quality DPM and generally perform poorer in any way compared to their full-sized counterparts. USB connected external drives without own power supply are the worst. I mean these things that get connected with a Y-cable, hoping they can get enough power for working more or less correctly.
The reason for writing this, is more keeping old information available at a single point, rather than any practical usecase. Since the demise of the forum club.myce.com (formally cdfreaks), a lot of interesting information is lost or at least much harder to find (the Wayback Machine has backed up a lot… if you know the old URLs).
CD protections relying on physical attributes (angles, density) have often been considered to be impossible to successfully replicate with consumer hardware. I want to make sure that the knowledge about possible approximations doesn’t get lost (TwinPeak and Plextor Premium)

When the following methods of copying SecuROM appeared, they did have practical use: As GBAtemp’s Backup Reminder, I want to emphasize the importance of backups once more at this point:
  • CDs can easily break… and if children were playing with them (using multiple games and changing discs), it was just a question of time until an expensive disc shattered or at least became unreadable.
  • For people playing online, which was already the often the case about 2002/2003, a crack/modification wasn’t ideal either: An update requires waiting for a new crack to come and caries the risk of being caught and banned. Having a backup CD-R in the drive which the protection will accept as original, should have been enough to be relatively save (theoretically improved detection of known backup methods could have been applied in updates – don’t know if this was the case.)
Long story short: If you find this text obsolete and outdated, you are somewhat right. To defend my approach a bit: It feels rewarding to fool disc based DRM and trying to look behind the scenes a bit – even without being a talented reverse engineer diving into disassembly.

Generally there are multiple ways of achieving the same goal: Running SecuROM infected software without having the original disc in the drive, thus defeating SecuROM. What I’ll not cover here is just downloading a No-CD crack. That is not backing up the original disc (and for purists: It is piracy according to the law, since you are downloading copyrighted stuff, normally the main executable in decrypted form). Arguably a crack is the most convenient thing to have, since neither additional software, nor hardware or any CD is needed. The game might work on newer operating systems where old, disc-based DRM sometimes causes trouble.
Still: This is about backing up, not downloading cracks:



Method 1 – RMPS (Removable Media Physical Structure) Emulation


The awkward density variations of SecuROM New discs can be measured. This is the first step of any method of creating a working copy. With the help of a DPM (Data Position Measurement) analysis file, emulation can be applied to both, a physical disc (drive), and a virtual disc (drive). The copying software does a detailed DPM before (or after) copying the normal data of the given CD. The resulting image can be inserted into a virtual drive which will behave 100% like the original disc. When using a physical CD-R(W), the emulation software intercepts (filter driver?) the reading and will alter the timings to simulate the density variations of the original disc.

The advantages of emulation are: Ease of use, high reliability/compatibility and the lack of any CD in case of virtual drive.

The downside of both emulation methods is (better say: was) the blacklisting cat+mouse game, that took place as protectionist tried to counter emulation. Not really important anymore since SecuROM (and other CD-based DRM stuff) is long dead and has been outlived by the emulators which will most likely not be detected anymore in new version (and/or can be hidden by helper applications). In addition to that, the resulting copy will never work on it’s own: In no drive it will produce the correct timings on a PC where the emulation software is unavailable. Think back in time again: Did you really want to buy multiple licenses for the emulator, just to have your kids play backups instead of expensive originals?

Usable software for this:
  • Alcohol 120% (physical and virtual)
  • Daemon Tools (physical and virtual)
  • Blindwrite Suite (physical, named Autoplay or EZ-Play)
  • VirtualCD (mostly virtual, but I think they support a special format for physical discs)
For the sake of completeness, I’ll show the very easy process with the example Alcohol 120%. I chose this program just because a free edition exists. Be warned that it has some adware bundled in the free version! I use it on offline PCs only… so I don't care. Current version of Alcohol 120% works on all Windows versions starting with XP (maybe even 2000). There are older versions compatible with Win98SE, but those didn’t have a free edition. The other mentioned applications will create emulation copies as well and the process is pretty straight-forward for any of them.



Dumping the original disc​

Insert the original disc (you will need an original CD to get sensible DPM data – this is true for all methods. Thankfully this whole tutorial is useless for pirates not owning the legit CDs) and select the SecuROM New 4/5/7 profile as Datatype when dumping the disc. For the DPM analysis slower speeds are usually (not always!) more accurate on CDs. The results depend on the reading drive though. If the graph doesn't look good (or Alcohol 120% even aborts and tells you the current drive can't extract DPM), try different speed settings and different drives.
01_Main_Window.PNG 02_Datatype_SecuROM_4_5_7.PNG 03_DPM_Speed.PNG

After dumping the disc…
04_Disc_dumped.PNG

look at the DPM analysis before proceeding:
05_Check_DPM_analysis_a.PNG 05_Check_DPM_analysis_b.PNG 05_Check_DPM_analysis_c.PNG
This is an example of an "okay" DPM. It is not great or perfect. Could be smoother and contain less small errors, but it is usable for sure.
:!: Don't proceed writing to CD-R when the graph has very high/low spikes (I do not mean the characteristic SecuROM peaks that can be seen in my example – they are normal and needed), or if the line doesn't look at least a bit smooth.:!:

Burning to CD-R(W)​

Now that we have a usable image, including DPM data, it is time to write it onto a blank CD. We could just insert the image to a virtual drive, but this is even less fun than RMPS emulation on physical CD.
Just select SecuROM 4/5/7 as Datatype once again and Alcohol 120% should choose the correct write method. Make sure "Burn RMPS to media" is selected. The writing mode should be RAW-DAO (disc-at-once).
06_Main_Window2.PNG 07_File_Selection.PNG 08_Burn_Settings.PNG

Starting the game​

The copy will only work, if the emulator is installed to the system where you want to play. Make sure the feature is turned on in the settings, else the read timings will not match and SecuROM will reject the copy.
09_Emulator_Is_Off.PNG 10_Emulator_Settings.PNG 11_Emulator_on.PNG




Method 2 – TwinPeak Copy


Next possibility: Going beyond emulation, approximating the density deviations in a way that the resulting CD-R will start the game without helper software.

Since a normal CD-writer does not give us control over the size of pits/lands, somebody had the clever idea to simulate lower density by wasting space. How? By inserting some sectors (including subchannel which also contains the sector numbers) twice: Twin sectors! This can be written by any burner allowing RAW-DAO(+Sub96) writing mode (which means every writer available nowadays).
Problem is: Success in reading, which also means starting up a game with a TwinPeak copy on the other hand, depends solely on the capabilities of the drive used for reading. Some (ironically often the better) drives stop a brief moment when encountering the same sector number twice and – factually correct – report an error. As if the drive wanted to say: “What I’ve just seen here does not make sense!”

Many drives on the other hand simply ignore the second instance of the same number, which they saw a moment before, and continue normally. This introduces a tiny amount of delay, slowing down the reading in a very similar way the lower data density areas on the original disc do. Again: only the reading drive is responsible for success or failure. No background software/emulator is needed⁴. Sometimes the actual data becomes unusable (can't install the game from TwinPeak copy) while the disc authentication succeeds. This sounds acceptable when thinking back in time: Carefully install games from legit CDs, and have the children play with the copies afterwards. In many cases the TwinPeak copies are fully usable for installation though (especially on Lite-On drives).



Creating a TwinPeak copy is not fully trivial, especially since the TwinPeak tool (or TwinCreator) has never been updated to support newer MDS files (which contains the DPM data). Luckily we can also use BWA files created by “Physical Characteristics Dumper”, which is part of Blindwrite Suite (it does not even demand buying a license opposed to the reading/writing applications). TwinCreator will determine the peak ranges in the BWA files (the peaks represent lower density areas) and insert twin sectors into those spots. If the copy does not work with your drive, you can try inserting more or less twin sectors (lower, respectively higher step number).
Sadly the BWA creator of Blindwrite Suite isn't remotely as good at creating consistent, good measurements as the DPM function of Alcohol 120%. This is where I would need help: The initial version of TwinPeak tool is open source and the author(s) explicitly allowed improvements. If a developer would have a look at TwinPeak, they could easily improve it in a way that it works with MDS files produced by Alcohol 120%.
Documentation of the proprietary MDS format is inside the source of CDEMU. The authors revere-engineered this.
The TwinCreator (part of A-Ray Copy Protection Scanner) I used for the screenshots does support MDS – in theory – but it simply crashes or goes 100% CPU forever when providing files from current Alcohol versions.
This leaves us with the suboptimal BWA creator until a developer improves the situation.
In short, big advantage is: No need for any helper software/emulator
Disadvantages: Limited compatibility, suboptimal software (not really user friendly process)




Create source files​

Start by dumping the game disc. Either with Clone-CD or Alcohol 120%, but in Clone-CD format (ccd file, img file, sub file). Make sure to set reading to RAW+Sub96. Next is the trickiest part. Getting physical analysis from Blindwrite Suite. It might need multiple drives, attempts and a lot of time to get a usable file with Blindwrite Physical Characteristics Dumper.
01_BWA_Builder.PNG
Very bad. Inaccurate and not smooth. Useless.
01b_Bad_BWA_Errors.PNG

Also bad: Spikes!
01c_Bad_BWA_Spikes.PNG
A few spikes might be acceptable. This file would be usable since SecuROM usually checks in the first section of peaks.
Do not abort analysis when spikes appear: The software often automatically corrects some or all of them after finishing.
If you have patience, search and download BWAEdit. You can manually correct spikes with it (tedious!!)

Very good analysis:
01a_Very_Good_BWA.PNG

Once you have all the files, it is time for TwinCreator​

02_Needed_Files.PNG

I used → A-Ray Copy Protection Scanner ← which is now available on the GBAtemp download section. You can also use the original TwinPeak tool or the TwinCreator in the program "Alcoholer" if you find them.
03_Array_Scanner_a.PNG 03_Array_Scanner_b.PNG

Select your CCD/BWA files you are ready to start. The only questions that is left, is the step size. Numbers that have been said to work are the default 15, but also 6 (very heavy modification on the image!), 30 and 50 (little modification).
Different drives might work with different numbers, which means trial and error. Some drives, especially a lot of the widespread LG, won't work with any TwinPeak copies regardless of the quality of the BWA file and regardless of the step size.
The same for old, “real” Plextor. Older Lite-On are by far the best and sometimes detect a TwinPeak copy faster(!) than the original CD which is funny to say the least.
03_Array_Scanner_c.PNG 03_Array_Scanner_d.PNG
After selecting your files and the step size, you can hit "Start" and will be informed about the areas that the tool will manipulate. It is not a bad idea to compare these values with the graph to see if they are plausible.
03_Array_Scanner_e.PNG

This gives us the following result:
04_Patched_Image.PNG

Writing to CD-R(W)​

All that is left now is burning the patched image in RAW-DAO mode. Clone-CD will do this very well, but you need a to buy license after 21 days. I used Alcohol 120% Free Edition again, which also does the job. Pay attention to the question it asks and choose the recommended option. This is the only one that makes any sense.
05_Burn_Image.PNG 06_Burn_settings.PNG 07_TOC_Lead-Out_mismatch.PNG
The resulting CD should start in twin sector friendly drives.

Closing Comments for this section​

Twin sectors violate the CD standard. You do everything on your own risk! I didn't encounter any hardware damage and tried more than 20 drives, some for hours, but please note that twin sectors are a crude thing and there is no guarantee for hardware to take it benevolent.

If you are curious to see the difference between the original CD and a TwinPeak copy: It is very hard to get full DPM analysis of a TwinPeak copy. Either the scanner aborts with an error, or it produces absolute nonsensical values. How can such copies work then? Well, SecuROM, as much of a pain in the a.. it is/was, didn't do full analysis each time booting the game. They didn't go that far, to have players wait 15 minutes each time. The brief look it has onto the structures, more or less seems to just validate the presence of changing data density. There is a huge amount of tolerance in order to not reject the legit discs (happened nevertheless sometimes).
I lost track of the number of write cycles on my testing CD-RW. After hours and hours of testing and slowly getting better values, I sacrificed one CD-R and finally obtained a TwinPeak copy with a somewhat sane DPM picture with very few measurement errors:
09_Legit_CD_compared_to_TwinPeak_Copy_a.PNG 09_Legit_CD_compared_to_TwinPeak_Copy_b.PNG




Method 3 – Almost(!) perfect copy with Plextor PlexWriter Premium (1)


There is one single drive model that can be used to create "perfect" (not really, but very good) backups: The Plextor Premium (not Premium 2). CD-R written this way should start in any drive and as fast as the legit CD.
As good this method is, it will rarely be helpful: I had a hard time getting that drive without paying a fortune. The prices are insane! Obtaining one of these isn't easy, that's for sure.
Other Plextor drives should be theoretically able to achieve the same results, but the firmware doesn't allow it. In order to (ab)use the GigaRec feature to write very good SecuROM copies, the Premium has to have at least firmware version 1.03. In older revisions GigaRec can't yet be used in "reverse mode" (less density; larger pits/lands), but that is exactly what we need. I upgraded the firmware to 1.05 and this works like a charm.

Anything related to VSO Blindwrite Suite assumes you to use a physical Windows XP (or older) machine. The version I used is Blindwrite Suite 4.5.2 (as far as I know the last from the 4.x series that allows at least a bit of control… and I completely failed to get newer versions to cooperate). I will try again to get newer versions to use the Premium for writing SecuROM New v4.8+.

Plextor Premium is an IDE drive, so you’ll need an older motherboard (which has good chances to be XP compatible). Note that PCI cards providing IDE ports often only support HDDs and not optical drives. An external USB→IDE case might make the drive somewhat work, but I’ve no idea if all the special Plextor functions can be used (and if this depends on the particular USB→IDE device).

Blindwrite implemented the TwinPeak technique from above as well and can insert the twin sectors automatically without patching an image file. Doing everything according to the screenshot below with any other drive, will result in Blindwrite automatically applying the TwinPeak technique. As always with Blindwrite Suite: The user has next to no control and doesn't even get any information about peak ranges and step size.

Big advantage of this method: High compatibility with high quality backup and no helper software.
Biggest (and only) disadvantage: You got to find a drive that is almost two decades out of production.
Plextor Premium.jpg





Disc dumping​

Since we are dealing with an old version of Blindwrite, we will need to dump the disc in it's native format (no support for anything else).
01_Dump_CD_Blindread.PNG 01_Dump_CD_Blindread_b.PNG 01_Dump_CD_Blindread_c.PNG
There is not much to take care of. I've no idea if density based SecuROM still needs the Subchannel dumped, but it doesn't harm. Your drive should support "sub Pw" (Sub-96) and not only "sub Pq" (Sub-16). The default settings (Nibble, Max read speed) will do fine.

DPM analysis​

Obtain a good BWA, just like above in the TwinPeak chapter.
01_BWA_Builder.PNG

Select Burner and Image​

02_Blindwrite_a.PNG 03_Select_Burner.PNG 04_Select_Image.PNG
Verify that the Plextor Premium is selected and has firmware 1.03 or higher.

05_Image_Analysis_a.PNG 05_Image_Analysis_b.PNG

The quick image check will tell you if the BWA file is found (should have the same basename as the image file)


Let's go!​

06_Start_Writing_a.PNG 06_Start_Writing_b.PNG
No idea if selecting 4x speed is needed. Blindwrite should reduce the speed to that value automatically. The Premium will write GigaRec discs at 8x with newer firmware, but Blindwrite insists on the older limit.
Answer the question for physically including BWA information with "Yes", and you should receive the best backup that is possible with consumer hardware.
Sorry for the Yes/No dialogue element being in German. I couldn't change this (seems to be Windows internal)

Sadly the user doesn't get informed about the technical side of things before starting the write process (and you can't use CD-RW here). After finishing, you can see a log.
***----- Image verification started -----***
HD image is OK
Sector: Bad headers 1 - Bad Edc 0 - Weak 0 - Status 1
File systems: Volumes 2 - files 5382 - folders 3658
Volume size 234690 boot 0 Vol ID YDKJ4 - 27.08.2003 13:41:40 Status 1
***----- Image verification ended -----***
Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
Patin-couffin version 14 in use
Blindwrite Version 4.5.7.92
***----- CD DEVICE INFO START OF REPORT -----***
CAUTION : Using unknown CD writer.
Unit String : "PLEXTOR CD-R PREMIUM "
***----- CD DEVICE INFO END OF REPORT -----***
Unit 0:0:0 - PLEXTOR CD-R PREMIUM 1.05 [E] (Ide)
Speed x4
VolumeId : "YDKJ4"
Hash : 866F22C92821F82F5338C9718035170BEE82A4DC
HD image "YDKJ4.BWT"
Physical media informations (BWA) found.

BWA support by Rate variation is used (1:1 copy)
Writing mode : DAO PW
Physical 1:1 copy is possible on this drive. Burnproof is disabled, writing speed is set to *4
Sectors read : 117645
Sectors built: 0
CD is complete
***----- Image verification started -----***
HD image is OK
Sector: Bad headers 0 - Bad Edc 1 - Weak 0 - Status 0
File systems: Volumes 2 - files 8672 - folders 38
Volume size 610958 boot 0 Vol ID CD2 - 28.06.2005 15:07:00 Status 1
***----- Image verification ended -----***
Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
Patin-couffin version 14 in use
Blindwrite Version 4.5.7.92
***----- CD DEVICE INFO START OF REPORT -----***
CAUTION : Using unknown CD writer.
Unit String : "ASUS DRW-24D5MT "
***----- CD DEVICE INFO END OF REPORT -----***
Unit 2:6:0 - ASUS DRW-24D5MT 1.00 [G] (Scsi)
Speed Max
VolumeId : "CD2"
Hash : A0BC7E416316206F2D0AF22657B436095EB49749
HD image "SONICCD2.BWT"
Physical media informations (BWA) found.

BWA support by TwinPeak technique is used
Writing mode : DAO PW
Sectors read : 306448
Sectors built: 0
CD is complete

Final picture​

Comparing the DPM data of legit CD and Plextor Premium copy. The structures (density changes) are virtually the same.
Plextor Premium copy compared to legit.png
Very good imitation (more measurement errors are normal on any CD-R). However, the absolute density is much higher on the copy (shifted down) than on the original. It is certainly possible to detect this.
I'm still waiting for a SecuROM v7.x CD. It is said to successfully tell apart Premium copies from the original. Can't confirm or deny at the moment. SecuROM v7.x CD arrived. Sad result is that they really upped the measurement precision. Premium copy worked only in two out of four tested drives. I have to emphasize that there has been frequent rejection of the legit CD as well on the drives where the Premium copy fails. The measurement tolerances seem to be very tight to the point, that unsuspecting, legitimate customers using original CDs might get detection errors.
My SecuROM v7.x disc (Lego Star Wars II) is pretty full (about 660MB) which means they average density is higher than on the example pictures above → The lines of original CD and Premium copy are not shifted this time. No idea how the protection detects Premium copies.
TwinPeak method seems to still work reliably – on the same drives as before; it was never working on all drives.

===
Another update on this: Got an older version of SecuROM 7 (surprise: Lego Star Wars I). It seems more aggressive from the software side (background service is installed without notice and runs all the time until you kill it). On the pro side: The lower version from the 7 series is fooled by Premium copies in all drives. Long story short: If you have Plextor Premium drive, just try regardless of the SecuROM version. In the worst case you waste one cheap CD-R.






=====================================================================
Despite this topic being of no interest for the most people anymore,
I will of course answer any questions (if I can), comments and would
be happy for any corrections or improvements!
=====================================================================







__________________
¹ I have my doubts if SecuROM discs should actually be called “CD-ROM”, but that is off-topic. Let’s say CD-ROM like discs, that strangely are compatible with most optical drives.
² Since the inner workings of disc based DRM, or any DRM at all, often show non-desirable behavior, I tend to prefer the term “infected” as a more accurate description
³ There might be a few titles with lower SecuROM version numbers already using the density based detection instead of the previous, much weaker subcode based method.

⁴ Some 4.8x versions of SecuROM do an ATIP-check. ATIP hiding is needed for all drives capable of writing. Later v4.8x and 5.x dropped this additional check for unknown reason which means any twin sector friendly drive will boot copies without any helper software.
 
Last edited by KleinesSinchen,

KleinesSinchen

GBAtemp's Backup Reminder + Fearless Testing Sina
OP
Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
4,653
Trophies
4
XP
16,590
Country
Germany
All 3 pieces of software fail to grab the DPM. It just fails at anlysis start. Further, I've tried a mix of the 3 above on both my Windows 10 machines (2 of them), a Windows 11 machine, and a Windows XP machine. Also a combination of drives, 2 USB, 1 SATA, and 1 IDE. It didn't matter the machine, each software gave it's own error, and it was consistent across drives and machines.
Uh… wow!
Failing to extract DPM can happen if a disc contains a lot of errors (unreadable sectors). This would show when dumping the main content without capturing the DPM stuff.
Other than that… I'd need a lot of trial and error here.

Our problem here is – that to my knowledge – all DPM scanners are closed source software. A black box that just works… or not. We (users) desperately need an open source alternative (Redump would need it as well!)

Confirmed a CD with Securom 7+.
Are you absolutely sure it is a CD, not a DVD? That makes a difference


Anything I should try different?
The only one of the DPM scanners that shows partial results is BWA creator of Blindwrite. Given we are talking about a CD, not a DVD you could try capturing the DPM limited to sector 50000. That is usually enough. One try with a slow speed, one with maximum speed. (For slow speed BWA creator starts measuring on the outer part, for max speed it starts at the beginning).
=====
Maybe you can post screenshots of partial DPM. Maybe we can manually create a file.

For now I have to sign out. Getting late here.
 

MilesGT

Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 30, 2023
Messages
5
Trophies
0
Age
33
XP
41
Country
United States
Uh… wow!
Failing to extract DPM can happen if a disc contains a lot of errors (unreadable sectors). This would show when dumping the main content without capturing the DPM stuff.
Other than that… I'd need a lot of trial and error here.

Our problem here is – that to my knowledge – all DPM scanners are closed source software. A black box that just works… or not. We (users) desperately need an open source alternative (Redump would need it as well!)


Are you absolutely sure it is a CD, not a DVD? That makes a difference



The only one of the DPM scanners that shows partial results is BWA creator of Blindwrite. Given we are talking about a CD, not a DVD you could try capturing the DPM limited to sector 50000. That is usually enough. One try with a slow speed, one with maximum speed. (For slow speed BWA creator starts measuring on the outer part, for max speed it starts at the beginning).
=====
Maybe you can post screenshots of partial DPM. Maybe we can manually create a file.

For now I have to sign out. Getting late here.

So no DPM extraction occurs, not even partial. Alcohol will continue without grabbing it (and the image won't run setup due to this fact). Daemon Tools, if you tell it to do DPM, also fails and stops. BWA Builder gives it's own unique error (and fails). I seem to have a slightly different version of what's presented in the OP, but based on this testing, I doubt it would work. I have tried limiting sectors but the program seems to override it. Either way, it fails right after "stabilizing motor".

Yes, 100% a CD, as it reads in an old IDE CD-RW drive (No DVD capabilities).

Funny enough, I took the DPM I got from a 2015 disc of a different car (Alcohol 120%, just took the MDS file and renamed it to match the new MDF file) and that actually worked fine, so the program isn't very sensitive to the DPM, but needs it there. However, this wouldn't help someone if they only had this disc (and there might be enough variations out there that this method might not work for everyone) Each Ford disc is specific to a vehicle model and year.

Here is the ImgBurn info on the disc. I also attached the 3 errors (and the Data Type Analyzer results).

Label: 17SHC
Imp ID: Unknown
File Sys: ISO9660, Joliet


HL-DT-ST BD-RE WH16NS60 1.03 (USB)
Current Profile: CD-ROM

Disc Information:
Status: Complete
State of Last Session: Complete
Erasable: No
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 167,680
Size: 343,408,640 bytes
Time: 37:17:55 (MM:SS:FF)
Free Sectors: 167,678
Free Space: 343,404,544 bytes
Free Time: 37:17:53 (MM:SS:FF)
Supported Read Speeds: 4x, 8x, 10x, 16x, 24x

File System Information:
Sectors: 167,680
Size: 343,408,640 bytes
Time: 37:17:55 (MM:SS:FF)

TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0 / 00:02:00)
-> Track 01 (Mode ???, LBA: 0 / 00:02:00)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 167680 / 37:17:55)

Track Information:
Session 1...
-> Track 01 (LTSA: 0, LTS: 167680, LRA: 0)
 

Attachments

  • Alcohol Data Type Analyzer.png
    Alcohol Data Type Analyzer.png
    11.2 KB · Views: 52
  • BWA Builder Error 1.PNG
    BWA Builder Error 1.PNG
    19.6 KB · Views: 51
  • Daemon Tools Error 1.png
    Daemon Tools Error 1.png
    24.2 KB · Views: 53
  • Alcohol Error 1.png
    Alcohol Error 1.png
    32.6 KB · Views: 56

GothicIII

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
838
Trophies
0
Age
36
XP
2,395
Country
Gambia, The
@MilesGT :

I would guess the disc contains read errors. I desperately tried to take a DPM dump from a disc which was securom old protected. It only contained a few non-readable sectors but DPM measurement would fail like in your case. So maybe the disc has a scratch or something? Do you get a successful dump if you disable all hardware error correction mechanisms and untick ignore read errors?
 

KleinesSinchen

GBAtemp's Backup Reminder + Fearless Testing Sina
OP
Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
4,653
Trophies
4
XP
16,590
Country
Germany
Either way, it fails right after "stabilizing motor".
That sounds an awful lot like newer versions of Blindwrite Suite.

I have tried limiting sectors but the program seems to override it.
Yes… sounds really like newer versions. They don't like to give any control to the user.
========

The disc read error at sector 0 (??) looks like an intentional roadblock. I'm wondering why multiple proprietary solutions (BW Suite, Daemon Tools, Alcohol 120%, Virtual CD, Game Jack/Jackal) implemented DPM dumpers (independently form each other??), but no open source software was ever released.
Since the disc based stuff is considered so outdated and obsolete it is unlikely for any of the commercial solutions to further improve.

Especially for preservation efforts (Redump) an open source alternative would be needed for the "old obsolete junk".


Funny enough, I took the DPM I got from a 2015 disc of a different car (Alcohol 120%, just took the MDS file and renamed it to match the new MDF file) and that actually worked fine, so the program isn't very sensitive to the DPM, but needs it there.
I have to try this (swapping DPM data from different titles). The pattern is very different for each title, but it is possible SecuROM is satisfied once finding density variations.

Sonic Adventure DX is a two disc game, both may authenticate (though CD2 must be in the drive after authentication – naive copy will suffice). In this case – same title, two discs – they have the same density pattern.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MilesGT

MilesGT

Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 30, 2023
Messages
5
Trophies
0
Age
33
XP
41
Country
United States
That sounds an awful lot like newer versions of Blindwrite Suite.


Yes… sounds really like newer versions. They don't like to give any control to the user.
========

The disc read error at sector 0 (??) looks like an intentional roadblock. I'm wondering why multiple proprietary solutions (BW Suite, Daemon Tools, Alcohol 120%, Virtual CD, Game Jack/Jackal) implemented DPM dumpers (independently form each other??), but no open source software was ever released.
Since the disc based stuff is considered so outdated and obsolete it is unlikely for any of the commercial solutions to further improve.

Especially for preservation efforts (Redump) an open source alternative would be needed for the "old obsolete junk".



I have to try this (swapping DPM data from different titles). The pattern is very different for each title, but it is possible SecuROM is satisfied once finding density variations.

Sonic Adventure DX is a two disc game, both may authenticate (though CD2 must be in the drive after authentication – naive copy will suffice). In this case – same title, two discs – they have the same density pattern.

Ya maybe because the error is the very first sector it's throwing the DPM dump off. Maybe I'll post in the Alcohol forums, see if it's a bug that can fix.

I've had trouble finding the old versions of BWA. Do you happen to have a link? Maybe I can try it with the older version, see if it makes a difference.

I assume the patterns are similar for the fact it's from the same manufacturer with the same install software, just different data for the specific Model Year of vehicle. Wonder how well that works in other cases.


@MilesGT :

I would guess the disc contains read errors. I desperately tried to take a DPM dump from a disc which was securom old protected. It only contained a few non-readable sectors but DPM measurement would fail like in your case. So maybe the disc has a scratch or something? Do you get a successful dump if you disable all hardware error correction mechanisms and untick ignore read errors?

Not sure the best way to disable it at the hardware level? Any windows software for that? I've tried multiple combinations of the skip read errors in Alcohol, made no difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KleinesSinchen

MilesGT

Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 30, 2023
Messages
5
Trophies
0
Age
33
XP
41
Country
United States
Ok, so I managed to get an older version of BlindWrite (4.5.7) from someone and it was able to get a reading. However, it wasn't very useful for me. I attempted Method 2 (even though I don't want physical media in the first place) and couldn't get it to quite work (I did get it to start installing, which means it got past SecuROM, but the install would always fail).

So it got me thinking. I downloaded an older version of Alcohol 120% (1.4.7.1005) and set DPM to high. What do you know, it worked! I was then able to mount the MDF/MDS with the curent version of Alcohol 120%, and the installer worked just fine, no SecuROM issues.

So that seems to be the best method with these discs (and maybe others). If you can't get DPM to read, try an older version of the software. I personally use Alcohol 120% for these types of discs, I save the Alcohol 120% installers in case they ever disappear (both Retail and Free Edition).

If anyone else comes across this, specifically with the Helm service manuals as is my case, and are still paranoid, remember it's the installer that's blocked by SecuROM, not the data. So you could setup a VM, install the disc to that VM, get a normal copy of the disc using open-source software, and then backup the VM. The normal disc will work fine at pulling the data after the install is completed.

I still say to keep the DPM image as your primary and just pick the proprietary software for your image, and if paranoid, take an image using open source software if you want both copies, on top of a VM. That would cover you pretty well if the disc is ever lost/damaged (the discs ain't cheap, usually between $150-$250 USD).

Personally, I think the DPM image is enough, along with a saved installer of the program (ie the Free Edition of Alcohol, which doesn't rely on registration or an online connection).

Thanks for the help everyone!
 

KleinesSinchen

GBAtemp's Backup Reminder + Fearless Testing Sina
OP
Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
4,653
Trophies
4
XP
16,590
Country
Germany
So it got me thinking. I downloaded an older version of Alcohol 120% (1.4.7.1005) and set DPM to high. What do you know, it worked! I was then able to mount the MDF/MDS with the curent version of Alcohol 120%, and the installer worked just fine, no SecuROM issues.
Nice! So this problem is solved. I'd still like to see the DPM data of the discs if possible. GBAtemp spam protection might disallow attaching images or posting links for new users, but after five regular posts this limitation is gone.



Ok, so I managed to get an older version of BlindWrite (4.5.7) from someone and it was able to get a reading. However, it wasn't very useful for me. I attempted Method 2 (even though I don't want physical media in the first place) and couldn't get it to quite work (I did get it to start installing, which means it got past SecuROM, but the install would always fail).
That is a special case. TwinPeak copies are sometimes unsuitable for installing – even if they pass the check.
When the installer itself is the protected application my only idea would be a swap trick (not guaranteed to work)
  • Partially disassemble drive, so that the cover/frame can be removed (pulled upwards)
  • Connect drive in a way it is lying next to the PC
  • Start installer, wait for TwinPeak CD to authenticate
  • Send a stop motor command
  • Remove cover, remove TwinPeak copy, insert normal copy
  • Send start motor command and continue install wizard.
Yes, makes zero sense.

Worth noting that Plextor Premium copies have no such problems with installation. There is a "but" here as well: It also makes no sense to pay a ridiculous price for a 20 year old CD writer.
↓↓↓↓
Just stick with the virtual drive.

The reason for posting this topic and detailed instructions for physical copies is just preservation. I don't want this information to be lost, but I don't expect many people to start writing CDs again (other than if one just wants to try it)

I still say to keep the DPM image as your primary and just pick the proprietary software for your image, and if paranoid, take an image using open source software if you want both copies, on top of a VM. That would cover you pretty well if the disc is ever lost/damaged (the discs ain't cheap, usually between $150-$250 USD).
Expensive specialized software. Produced in low quantities. Nobody cares for it and crackers don't know it. → years or even decades later copy protection becomes a big problem. On mainstream games there are no issues finding cracked versions.
 

MilesGT

Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jun 30, 2023
Messages
5
Trophies
0
Age
33
XP
41
Country
United States
Nice! So this problem is solved. I'd still like to see the DPM data of the discs if possible. GBAtemp spam protection might disallow attaching images or posting links for new users, but after five regular posts this limitation is gone.




That is a special case. TwinPeak copies are sometimes unsuitable for installing – even if they pass the check.
When the installer itself is the protected application my only idea would be a swap trick (not guaranteed to work)
  • Partially disassemble drive, so that the cover/frame can be removed (pulled upwards)
  • Connect drive in a way it is lying next to the PC
  • Start installer, wait for TwinPeak CD to authenticate
  • Send a stop motor command
  • Remove cover, remove TwinPeak copy, insert normal copy
  • Send start motor command and continue install wizard.
Yes, makes zero sense.

Worth noting that Plextor Premium copies have no such problems with installation. There is a "but" here as well: It also makes no sense to pay a ridiculous price for a 20 year old CD writer.
↓↓↓↓
Just stick with the virtual drive.

The reason for posting this topic and detailed instructions for physical copies is just preservation. I don't want this information to be lost, but I don't expect many people to start writing CDs again (other than if one just wants to try it)


Expensive specialized software. Produced in low quantities. Nobody cares for it and crackers don't know it. → years or even decades later copy protection becomes a big problem. On mainstream games there are no issues finding cracked versions.

I think this is my 5th post so I will see if I can post after.

Yup, and I don't want to say it didn't work, I followed it but didn't put a ton of effort into it because my intention was never to go back to a disc. I just wanted a software image that, when mounted, allowed the install, allowing me to never have to worry about the original physical CD, just only as another backup.

Really appreciate the whole write up!

Funny enough, the software Ford uses is archaic (which is probably why it uses SecuROM still). If you don't want an online subscription but want the dealer-level service manual for your car (in this case, Ford), then you have to buy this disc. That's what you pay for. It's great for DIYers when repairing/diagnosing a vehicle as you have dealer-level information about the car, every bolt to remove, all wiring diagrams, step by step with 3D rendered pictures. I think new model vehicles (2020+) use a USB drive, so who knows the protections around that... I'm just glad I can at least get a backup!

Agree, specialized, there are some forum posts about it, but not much. Some old ones of people saying to just image the CD and it works when using the software, which they are right, but they aren't understanding the installer is the secure part. I just hope those people aren't getting rid of the discs when they do that, because if they are, and they need to format their PC, they will be in for a rude awakening when they see the installer isn't working if they didn't pull the DPM. Hence the suggestion to use a VM.
Post automatically merged:

Here is the DPM of the discs.
Red = 2017 MY disc (the one with the problems discussed originally, used old Alcohol 120% version to read DPM)
Green = 2015 MY disc
Yellow = 2013 MY disc (seems noisy? But it works fine)

Ford DPM.png


In case you are curious, this is what the software looks like (old), but does contain very useful information. Let me know if there is anything else you want to look at!

Ford 1.png


Ford 2.png
 
Last edited by MilesGT,

truemaster

Member
Newcomer
Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Messages
16
Trophies
0
Age
40
XP
175
Country
Greece
hello i try to convert an mds file to bwa using BwaBuilder.exe from version 4.5.7. but the program says no valid mds. the game is gtavice city any ideas?
 

console

Elvira fans ❤ :-) I'm rocking Windows 7 for 11 yrs
Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
555
Trophies
1
Location
In heart of Windows XP, 7. I ❤ 👠! 🥰
Website
www.startpage.com
XP
4,114
Country
United States
That's interesting something to me. B-)

I used GameCopyWorld and GameBurnWorld websites for my legal bought own PC games to get cracked by copy to replace over .exe and some .dll in the past for old school gaming to play without disc to prevent wear and tears in disc drive over many years. :yay:
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigOnYa

KleinesSinchen

GBAtemp's Backup Reminder + Fearless Testing Sina
OP
Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
4,653
Trophies
4
XP
16,590
Country
Germany
hello i try to convert an mds file to bwa using BwaBuilder.exe from version 4.5.7. but the program says no valid mds. the game is gtavice city any ideas?
Newer versions of Alcohol 120% are incompatible with old Blindwrite regarding media descriptor files (same for the Twin Peaj Tool/Twin Creator)

The whole concept of copying SecuROM depends on outdated soft- and hardware. Alcohol 120% Retro Editions 1.9.5.xxxx might work (use only on Windows XP or older).
===

Sadly nobody offered me some help in order to make Twin Peak Tool compatible with newer MDS and I'm not good enough at software development to do it myself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: truemaster

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Psis basement was originally very dark but the meth gave enough light
    +1
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    I wonder if in Florida, during concerts instead of lighters they just lift up theyre lit meth pipes.
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Meth vapes are a hot seller
  • Sicklyboy @ Sicklyboy:
    that's methed up
    +1
  • Sicklyboy @ Sicklyboy:
    Well, that's a new one for me. Cleaning some linear rails for my 3d printer I'm building, spraying the hell out of them with brake cleaner to strip the light oil off of it so I can grease them up properly
  • Sicklyboy @ Sicklyboy:
    This old can of brake cleaner ran out of propellant with like 15% of the fluid left in the can, wtf
  • Sicklyboy @ Sicklyboy:
    Now I have to go run out to my truck to get a new can and it's dark and cold and wet and windy :(
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Don't huff the cleaner in the store wait tell you get to your car
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    They were talking about how a principal and assistant tried framing a kid with a weed cartridge on the radio and I'm just like how did that kid get hated that much
    +2
  • Sicklyboy @ Sicklyboy:
    of course it's texas
    +1
  • Sicklyboy @ Sicklyboy:
    shithole state
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Florida would also be acceptable
  • darkscyht3s @ darkscyht3s:
    when reading upon the instructions on how to use YANBF it says to drag apfix.pck and widescreen.pck but there is no apfix.pck in the current version download of twilight 7z
  • darkscyht3s @ darkscyht3s:
    im
    on windows btw
  • SylverReZ @ SylverReZ:
    @darkscyht3s, Make a thread in the DS section.
    +1
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Hi @SylverReZ How are you, at this hour?
  • SylverReZ @ SylverReZ:
    Can't even get to sleep.
    +2
  • kijetesantakalu042 @ kijetesantakalu042:
    Hate how microsoft wants me to use the outlook app instead of letting me simply look at my calendar
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    It's looking out for you
  • kijetesantakalu042 @ kijetesantakalu042:
    I could drive for an hour and suffocate bill gates.
  • kijetesantakalu042 @ kijetesantakalu042:
    Don't fight me, bill
  • kijetesantakalu042 @ kijetesantakalu042:
    Found his address.
    kijetesantakalu042 @ kijetesantakalu042: Found his address.