Team Ninja's Representation of Women Not Changing Anytime Soon

[Gundam Eclipse]

Okay what about Leisure suit Larry.

I'm not too familiar with Leisure Suit Larry but from what I know he seems to also be a comical parody character.

I was planning on mentioning NieR because they had to change the main character from a white hair pretty boy teen in the original to a buffed up 40 year old for the western release and I guess Raiden from MGS probably counts.

And we all did a 'thank fuck for that.'

I'm guessing you like looking at buffed up men instead of women.

Offtopic:Am I reading this wrong or are you implying that the original MC for Nier was a woman.
I clearly need more sleep, been awake for too long/end

 

[MushGuy]

I'll never buy a Team Ninja game again, after all they RUINED Samus.
IMHO, they really inteded to SCREW that franchise, at least that's some thing they are good at.
THEY ARE NOT GOOD AT DEEP GAMES. Horrible piece of work, part from the cgi.

If there's someone to blame for Other M, that is Yoshio Sakamoto. After all, it's HIS idea, not Team Ninja's. The Team made it clear.

 

[Just Another Gamer]

Okay what about Leisure suit Larry.

I'm not too familiar with Leisure Suit Larry but from what I know he seems to also be a comical parody character.

I was planning on mentioning NieR because they had to change the main character from a white hair pretty boy teen in the original to a buffed up 40 year old for the western release and I guess Raiden from MGS probably counts.

And we all did a 'thank fuck for that.'

I'm guessing you like looking at buffed up men instead of women.

Offtopic:Am I reading this wrong or are you implying that the original MC for Nier was a woman.
I clearly need more sleep, been awake for too long/end

I guess this explains it easier http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhiteHairedPrettyBoy

 

[Hyro-Sama]

Okay what about Leisure suit Larry.

I'm not too familiar with Leisure Suit Larry but from what I know he seems to also be a comical parody character.

I was planning on mentioning NieR because they had to change the main character from a white hair pretty boy teen in the original to a buffed up 40 year old for the western release and I guess Raiden from MGS probably counts.

And we all did a 'thank fuck for that.'

I'm guessing you like looking at buffed up men instead of women.

Offtopic:Am I reading this wrong or are you implying that the original MC for Nier was a woman.
I clearly need more sleep, been awake for too long/end

I guess this explains it easier http://tvtropes.org/...HairedPrettyBoy

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I'm guessing you like looking at buffed up men instead of women.

Um it makes sense because the story involves a man trying to save his daughter. The main character isn't even stereotypically bad ass. He's simply a man trying to save his daughter. If anything he's the exact opposite of what you're trying to say.

Also since when was Raiden muscular and "drugged up buff" and "enjoys killing people". He's actually rather unbuff and appeals to the more "Japanese" crowd than a more "manly" character like Snake or Big Boss.

I'm just gonna say that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about since you're just throwing random male characters out there that are in no way representative of something sexist.

 

[Rasas]

Can we drop this? Sexism and racism exist in a lot of things but just over inflate things. If anything blame some Japanese developers and their sexist games(not all their games are sexist but some are extremely) not the western market. Sure in western games the characters have sex but if you are stuck fighting something or been with someone long enough it happens. Even in China and Korea they're F2P are rarely sexist. The problem is certain cultures just objective women and your going to have to accept that you might be bias and see things that aren't there. Watch the South Park episode on racism.

Lets talk about Team Ninja they said they won't be doing DLC characters for DOA5 and that is the newest game they are releasing. They may be releasing DOA5 at a bad time but there isn't that many fighting games being released during that time besides Tekken. They released DOA 3-4 at the launch on the new X-Box system and with the market the way it is this game failing may mean the death of the studio. NG3 and DOA didn't sell to well so this might be bad. Hopefully it will sell great but the demo didn't give me much hope in that.

 

[Clarky]

Raidens design was made in mind to attract women to the series.....just saying

 

[Foxi4]

There's scenes such as her confrontation with Ridley in which she breaks down and is just a "weak little girl" and needs a stronger male character to defend her. Or that she's willing to literally run through fire for Adam and actively take damage because he didn't authorize the use of something as basic and harmless as an envirosuit. Like respecting her commander's decision to deactive her more devastating weapons (such as the super bomb or whatever she uses at the end of the game) is fine but shutting down even basic parts simply to submit to the will of Adam isn't just respect, it's submission.

I'd like to point out that all this had good reasons behind it which were well-rooted into the story. Samus was not the cold bounty hunter we know now, she was new into the business. She had great respect towards Adam as he was her commanding officer while she was a Space Marine and she chose to listen to him to keep the morale of the team up and keep his authority over the troops where it was supposed to be rather than undermine it, risking jeopardising the mission. As for the moments of weakness, again, she wasn't used to the solo style of combat yet. Before the events of Other M, she always had a team she could rely on. On the Bottle Ship, the team was there, but she was still a separate entity. She seemed a bit lonely to me - to use a poetic expression, lonely in a crowd. She had to rely on herself only while she still wanted "in" on the team, missing the old days, hence the overwhelming weakness which she finally overcomes. I enjoyed that internal struggle of hers and I liked watching her transform into a ruthless hunter as she was forced to watch her team die one by one until she lost her captain whom she counted on the most.

 

[Rasas]

Raidens design was made in mind to attract women to the series.....just saying

It was later but he was also made to see Snake from a third person perspective and be a fellow comrade that helps fight unlike Otacon who does more tactics and logistics.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Boobs sell.

It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?

 

[Clarky]

Raidens design was made in mind to attract women to the series.....just saying

It was later but he was also made to see Snake from a third person perspective and be a fellow comrade that helps fight unlike Otacon who does more tactics and logistics.

Raiden's design as in his looks, not so much how he was designed to fit in the game

 

[Guild McCommunist]

There's scenes such as her confrontation with Ridley in which she breaks down and is just a "weak little girl" and needs a stronger male character to defend her. Or that she's willing to literally run through fire for Adam and actively take damage because he didn't authorize the use of something as basic and harmless as an envirosuit. Like respecting her commander's decision to deactive her more devastating weapons (such as the super bomb or whatever she uses at the end of the game) is fine but shutting down even basic parts simply to submit to the will of Adam isn't just respect, it's submission.

I'd like to point out that all this had good reasons behind it which were well-rooted into the story. Samus was not the cold bounty hunter we know now, she was new into the business. She had great respect towards Adam as he was her commanding officer while she was a Space Marine and she chose to listen to him to keep the morale of the team up and keep his authority over the troops where it was supposed to be rather than undermine it, risking jeopardising the mission. As for the moments of weakness, again, she wasn't used to the solo style of combat yet. Before the events of Other M, she always had a team she could rely on. On the Bottle Ship, the team was there, but she was still a separate entity. She seemed a bit lonely to me - to use a poetic expression, lonely in a crowd. She had to rely on herself only while she still wanted "in" on the team, missing the old days, hence the overwhelming weakness which she finally overcomes. I enjoyed that internal struggle of hers and I liked watching her transform into a ruthless hunter as she was forced to watch her team die one by one until she lost her captain whom she counted on the most.

Like I said, her showing respect to a former CO by deactivating certain weapons is plausible but making herself endure unnecessary pain because she wants Adam's acceptance is beyond it. Plus the entire game revolves not around her personal quest, but about her pleasing Adam. I'm fine with a game that develops what happens between the two of them but the way it was set up here was almost as master and servant, not as it should be.

As for Ridley, she's fought him before but now she has a traumatic breakdown? She fought him in Metroid and Super Metroid. Plus it wasn't just generic fear. It was a full on mental breakdown as though she's fragile and, as women are stereotyped, weak. I mean we see plenty of protagonists in games (both male and female) face horrific things but grit through it because they have to. Why does Samus, whose shown to be capable of dispatching of many enemy targets single handedly and without issue and is able to face terrifying monsters without fear have a complete breakdown here? That alone doesn't make sense, but paired with the fact that she defeated him TWICE?

Also, before the events on Other M, she was still flying solo on these missions in Metroid and Super Metroid. Other M isn't a prequel to all the games, its set between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion.

I'd give the game more credit if it was a prequel to the entire franchise, if it was something like Samus' first gig after her military career and she's thrown into a situation she'd never have thought of. The situations she's usually thrown into. She goes to a planet to hunt down a bunch of generic Space Pirates but shit goes wrong and she's all alone. Kinda like the Tomb Raider reboot. Then it shows her getting tough and more independent and explains her development into a much stronger person in various situations. But it wasn't. Samus is a developed character. Not through cutscenes and text, but through mechanics and subtlety. To take an image which is generally known of her and liked about her and destroy it is character assassination to the highest degree.

 

[Phoenix Goddess]

Boobs sell.

It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?

If it meant guys wouldn't treat women like a bunch of sex objects in real life cause they see that shit is okay in video games? Or having gigantic, unrealistic boobs bouncing in my face all the time in video games? Fuck yes.

Ummm....I haven't seen any of the female DoA characters to be helpless, ditzy and submissive, usually in games they aren't portrayed like that anyway so I don't get why that is brought up. I rather find thats up to preference because I really don't mind playing as any female character even those that are portrayed as sex objects and I hardly see it as a problem or in a way I can't since guys get portrayed like that as well and it seems no one gives a shit which baffles me and I find it a double standard so I do overlook it.

This post is so wrong I'm not even sure what to say exactly. There are many, many, many games that portray women as ditzy, helpless and submissive. I translate otome games, so I know for a fact that this is true. Guys like you make the world a lot worse for women. Some guys... Okay, many guys, who play video games with women being displayed as sex objects, weak, brainless or all of the above, tend to treat real women just like that.
Some females still have their dignity. Surprising, I know. I almost couldn't believe it myself



Anyway, back to the discussion on Team DicksNinja!

 

[DS1]

Boobs sell.

It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?

Because there's no middle ground there. And we all know girls don't play video games, so rock on, bro!

Non-sarcastic response: I don't care if I have to play as a twig, so long as a game is good. God forbid anyone would make a game good before they tried to sell it on the character designs. And yes, there has always been an element of sex appeal in game promotion, but not nearly to the degree that it is today. I will give up boobs in games left and right to return to a culture that's a little more civil. But blah blah blah, I see Phoenix responded before me, and she's probably got something better than I do.

edit - and my god, I love me some Japanese games, but holy crap does 90% of what comes out today creep me the hell out. The games are probably decent, but the shit they do to promote it is *ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

 

[Deleted_171835]

Boobs sell.

It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?

If it meant guys wouldn't treat women like a bunch of sex objects in real life cause they see that shit is okay in video games? Or having gigantic, unrealistic boobs bouncing in my face all the time in video games? Fuck yes.

I would think that if one treats women like sex objects based on something he sees in a videogame, it speaks of bigger problems with him than the game "promoting" sexist behaviour.

Huge boobs, strong abs, it's all simply to increase appeal of their games. Given that males represent the large majority of gamers, it makes sense. Huge muscular guys are in games because that's supposed to represent what guys would strive to be while girls with overly large assets are supposed to increase sex appeal (BECAUSE SEX SELLS). If you guys are going to throw a fit, don't simply blame Team Ninja, blame the entire damn industry.

~snip

Samus not activating her weapons doesn't have anything to do with respect to Adam. It's merely a game mechanic (like in other Metroid games, progressive unlocks) Sakamoto wanted to incorporate but he failed to realize how that would conflict with the story.

I don't think Sakamoto tried to make the game sexist, it's just his inability to write a good story and meld it with game mechanics that is at fault. Another often cited example of the game being sexist is when Adam shoots Samus in the back near the end. That was just Sakamoto wanting to have a heroic ending with Adamn leaving like a bad-ass motherfucker. Except he went about it all wrong.

Honestly, he should have just hired some guys who actually know how to write a story (like they did with Mass Effect), outlined Samus's character and let them do the story. He didn't have much experience and it shows.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

~snip

Samus not activating her weapons doesn't have anything to do with respect to Adam. It's merely a game mechanic (like in other Metroid games, progressive unlocks) Sakamoto wanted to incorporate but he failed to realize how that would conflict with the story.

I don't think Sakamoto tried to make the game sexist, it's just his inability to write a good story and meld it with game mechanics that is at fault. Another often cited example of the game being sexist is when Adam shoots Samus in the back near the end. That was just Sakamoto wanting to have a heroic ending with Adamn leaving like a bad-ass motherfucker. Except he went about it all wrong.

Honestly, he should have just hired some guys who actually know how to write a story (like they did with Mass Effect), outlined Samus's character and let them do the story. He didn't have much experience and it shows.

But through all this playtesting and vetting not a single person raised their hand and said "Um, yeah, that's a bit sexist"? Plus things like this don't just develop through a bunch of unfortunate coincidences. He definitely had a view of this character that was not a favorable view on women. Mechanics aside, it doesn't explain scenes like Ridley's attack or Adam shooting her.

I won't say this as a solidified point since I CBA to find the correct citation but I thought there was something like Sakamoto felt that the image of Samus in all previous games was incorrect so he threw it all out the window or something.

I mean a lot of stars have to align for a game to be equal parts character assassination and sexism as Other M was. That's like the writer of Gettysburg accidentally writing Birth of a Nation. Yes I'm using Birth of a Nation references a lot but it's the most well known offensive piece of media at least in America.

 

[DS1]

Boobs sell.

It's as simple as that; Honestly, I don't find much wrong with their depiction of women. Would you rather be playing with a cast of hairy men?

If it meant guys wouldn't treat women like a bunch of sex objects in real life cause they see that shit is okay in video games? Or having gigantic, unrealistic boobs bouncing in my face all the time in video games? Fuck yes.

I would think that if one treats women like sex objects based on something he sees in a videogame, it speaks of bigger problems with him than the game "promoting" sexist behaviour.

Huge boobs, strong abs, it's all simply to increase appeal of their games. Given that males represent the large majority of gamers, it makes sense. Huge muscular guys are in games because that's supposed to represent what guys would strive to be while girls with overly large assets are supposed to increase sex appeal (BECAUSE SEX SELLS). If you guys are going to throw a fit, don't simply blame Team Ninja, blame the entire damn industry.

Ughhh, see, spamming "sex sells" is a perfect example of 'mansplaining', which is when a man talks down to a female about how she's being oppressed and disregarded because of any number of bullshit reasons (in this case: because it's good business sense!). PG isn't stupid, she understands marketing, and also that you're just trying to explain away sexism as if it's common sense.

And sure, blame the guy who acts like a neanderthal, not the people who enabled the culture and perpetuated it. If you'd think for a minute instead of defending Joe-marketing exec, you'd admit a number of the most successful games include a wide range of character designs, not the two laziest ones (space marine and the uncanny melons).

*cough* I mean, no offense, but it (the mainsplaining) such a tired thing and I see so many dudes do it on the internet all the time. Dudes who are probably not sexist, but don't think before they spit out a bunch of crap and then I cry because it's like, "WHY INTERNET, WHY!!"

 

[Foxi4]

I'd give the game more credit if it was a prequel to the entire franchise, if it was something like Samus' first gig after her military career and she's thrown into a situation she'd never have thought of. The situations she's usually thrown into. She goes to a planet to hunt down a bunch of generic Space Pirates but shit goes wrong and she's all alone. Kinda like the Tomb Raider reboot. Then it shows her getting tough and more independent and explains her development into a much stronger person in various situations. But it wasn't. Samus is a developed character. Not through cutscenes and text, but through mechanics and subtlety. To take an image which is generally known of her and liked about her and destroy it is character assassination to the highest degree.

I just realized that you're right - it's not a full-on prequel to the series, it is in-between missions. Well, I guess it could be just the stress enduced by re-living memories with her comrades but yeah, they might've overdone it in that case. I still don't think it's that bad though, but then again, I'm not a hardcore fan - I just enjoyed her pictured as a human rather than a walking tank.

 

[BORTZ]

*reads topic title*
Good.

 

[Rizsparky]

Woudnt be saying the same if they animated obscenely large male private parts...