Why do people like 60fps so much?

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by leafeon34, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. leafeon34
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    leafeon34 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Some years ago when Tales of Symphonia got released on Steam people were bitching because the game was locked at 30fps like the PS3 version and that the best way to play the game is to emulate the Gamecube game at 60fps.

    Some older games feel uncomfortable to play because of the lower framerate (Assassin's Creed 3 on the PS3 and a number of N64 games come to mind here) but I personally can't tell the difference between 30 and 60fps.

    I hear all kinds of different arguments about the human eye. Some say we see at 24fps. Others say we can see at almost 300fps. Some people claim they can notice a frame being displayed twice when playing the 59fps Wii U version of Mario Kart 8.

    If that's the case does that mean if I spend a shitload on an amazing PC my games will look smooth as fuck at 120fps?
     
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  2. netovsk

    netovsk GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    My screen is 1080p/60 Hz I don't want to feel like I'm wasting frames or pixels.
     
  3. TheVinAnator

    TheVinAnator GBATemp's Greatest Vin

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    Yes your eyes can see much more than 60 FPS LOL. People like 60fps for exactly what it is. Twice as smooth as 30fps. It seems quite slow and choppy in comparison. Try it out for an extended period and I'm sure you'll see.
     
  4. AbyssalMonkey

    AbyssalMonkey GBAtemp Regular

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    Half of it is propped up on memes, the other is propped up on fact.
    Memes are memes, and I'm dropping the meme explanation there.

    Nearly everybody can tell the difference between 30 and 60 when they are side by side. The big issue is when a game drops a frame. A game at 30 dropping a frame to 29 fps is a lot more noticeable than a game dropping a frame from 60 to 59. This also comes into play with frame timing, where some frames can be on the screen for longer than others. Finally the last part is the same reason why people want better graphics. One portion of delivering video is how good it looks, the other is how smooth it is. They are both aesthetically important.

    One important thing most people forget to mention when the human eye argument comes up is that eyes are good at distinguishing contrast in movement. This is why we have all the optical illusions based around black and white contrast, or the green/blue/white spinning circles. In bright and colorful games, you will notice the improvement far more appreciably than in games where it's all a similar color with low contrast.

    With the increase in color reproduction and higher contrast displays, the difference between the 30/60 frame rate is only going to become more and more apparent.
     
    Last edited by AbyssalMonkey, Jan 31, 2018
  5. jDSX

    jDSX Is a furry

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    Reaction time is better
    Feels smoother
    No wait time for next input almost seemless
     
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  6. Coolsonickirby

    Coolsonickirby GBAtemp Regular

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    I honestly don't care about 60 or 30 or even 15 fps. I had a weak pc until 2 years ago. I'm just thankful I could play the game.
     
  7. fadx

    fadx GBAtemp Regular

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    Yes it will feel very smooth. 60Hz to 144Hz is a very big transition and you'll notice it very easily (even desktop interactions are obviously smoother). I prefer higher framerate over resolution so I don't play on 1440p or anything like that.
     
  8. Memoir

    Memoir A Hero to Zero

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    The age old question that has an infinite amount of answers and opinions.

    I own a 144hz monitor so now I expect that. /s

    60+ is definitely a more enjoyable experience for me, but I don't complain about 30 where it can't be helped. Framerate locking on PC kind of defeats the purpose of owning a PC... Comparing it to the "PS3 version" is a clear sign you don't know much about this.
     
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  9. TheVinAnator

    TheVinAnator GBATemp's Greatest Vin

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    You're a very, very, very tolerable guy if you think 15fps is a "playable" experience. I had a weak PC until the Summer and if I couldn't get at least 30 FPS on a game whether it "runs" or not, screw that.
     
  10. Memoir

    Memoir A Hero to Zero

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    The n64 era thooooooooo
     
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  11. Sonic Angel Knight

    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend

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    Most people like higher framerates cause it makes games look better, smooth and consistent, is a very noticeable thing when viewing. The video below helps to explain I suppose.

     
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  12. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    The "24 fps is the limit"-thing stems from the fact that movies used to run at that framerate. And it was fine because at those rates, your eye perceives what is basically a bunch of still images projected in quick succession as one stream of motion. Games are different in two ways:
    1) it requires a higher focus because you're not passively absorbing what's being displayed but have to react to it as well.
    2) games are rendered rather than pre-rendered: the display might increase and lower, depending on what has to be translated to the screen (blank wall obviously easier than a widely detailed landscape)

    ...and perhaps also 3) you're much closer to your monitor than your television, but I don't know the impact on that one. But the whole "smoother" thing may be described as cosmetic, but it's not really. The main difference between 30 and 60 (or higher) FPS is subconscious. Many have reported getting more headaches and it being less pleasant. In my personal experience, I find some 3D engines to cause motion sickness at lower FPS (note: this was of older games...nowadays I barely play the kind of games that my average PC can't handle at max settings). Also worth mentioning: a sudden drop in FPS is far more noticeably than it being consistent, even if that consistency is at a lower pace. It's hard to say to what degree, but back when I played UT2004 on a crappy PC, I would've chosen a steady 30 FPS over one fluctuating wildly between 35 and 45 any day.


    On the other hand, the argument is overblown quite a bit (except maybe on VR...can't speak on that behalf). I know it's hard arguing in favor of something you can't see, but some push some weird arguments to back up their stance. "Wasting frames or pixels"...seriously?
    It's also pretty overlooked that this only affects 3D games, and non-turn based ones at that. Turn-based games have no real need for it, and some pretend that games are HORRIBLE at lower framerates (or even suggest that they are because they have low framerates, rather than the game just not being very good).



    This is actually a different discussion. It's not that hard for developers to remove a 30 FPS lock, so these kinds of sour comments are more aimed at developers deliberately hampering their games so the (usually original) console versions don't seem inferior.
     
  13. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Forget 60, some people swear by 144 FPS. I prefer all the flashy effects and stuff turned up high and a solid 60 FPS lock. It is noticeably smoother than 30 or even 45, especially when turning in an FPS game. Motion blurs at lower framerates, and that definitely includes movies, which is how they get away with so many VFX tricks. I have seen games designed well for 30 FPS, the timing of them and all, but it's not common. Dark Souls became a lot easier going from 30 to 60 FPS, XB360 to PC.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jan 31, 2018
  14. Edgarska

    Edgarska Conjurer of cheap tricks

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    Personally, I like 60fps because I have working eyes but no funds to play at 120.
     
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  15. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord

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    Correct, you would definitely be able to tell the difference and it would look like what silk feels like in comparison
     
  16. Maluma

    Maluma GBAtemp Regular

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  17. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    I like 60 fps, 120 fps looks too weird to me.
     
  18. ThoD

    ThoD GBATemp Maniac (apparently), but more like "bored"

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    60 is the best to be honest. You aren't overworking your system, is easier to maintain (no framedrops) and hardly has any motion blur. I personally only play on either 60 or 75 depending on the game (my GPU can go up to 100 without framedrops) and with an average resolution of 1360x800/1360x768 (depending on ratio, prefer 16:10), as it makes the games enjoyable, without stressing the PC too much, making any occurrence of framedrop nonexistent. I don't mind something things being in 30 (eg: some console games), but 60+ is more comfortable.

    As for what the eye can perceive, the eye perceives light, then proteins charged with static electricity transfer the signals, so theoretically, max possible is actually 150K frames per second. However, in reality, the most frames you can actually perceive top up at about 2000 frames per second with the average being around 80 (from a study couple years back). Military pilots for example are required to be able to tell apart 1 frame from 200-300 in most countries, so it's certainly not 24:P
     
  19. Ominous66521

    Ominous66521 GBAtemp Maniac

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  20. ertaboy356b

    ertaboy356b GBAtemp Regular

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    World of Final Fantasy is 30FPS and I feel like it's 60FPS lol.