Why do people like 60fps so much?

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goldensun87

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The first time I ran Skyrim, was with *gasp* integrated Intel graphics. My framerate was 15 fps, and none of the spells rendered completely onscreen. 60 fps is much smoother than 30 fps, and once you get used to 60 fps, 30 fps looks slow and choppy.
 

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However, in reality, the most frames you can actually perceive top up at about 2000 frames per second with the average being around 80 (from a study couple years back). Military pilots for example are required to be able to tell apart 1 frame from 200-300 in most countries, so it's certainly not 24
Interesting. I heard that human eyes cannot perceive anything over 60 fps. Are you serious with your pilot statement?
 

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60 is the best to be honest. You aren't overworking your system, is easier to maintain (no framedrops) and hardly has any motion blur. I personally only play on either 60 or 75 depending on the game (my GPU can go up to 100 without framedrops) and with an average resolution of 1360x800/1360x768 (depending on ratio, prefer 16:10), as it makes the games enjoyable, without stressing the PC too much, making any occurrence of framedrop nonexistent. I don't mind something things being in 30 (eg: some console games), but 60+ is more comfortable.
Just because your PC is sub-par (seriously, 1360x768 resolution?) that doesn't mean 60 FPS is "best." What is "best" depends on your definition of "best." Obviously if you're a competitive Overwatch player, the higher the framerate the better. If you play turn-based games you don't need 144 FPS but it certainly looks better. Some people are willing to lower the quality (like you) to get higher framerates and others are perfectly fine raising the quality as high as possible, regardless of the resulting framerate. I recently got a 144Hz monitor and the difference is night and day between 60 and 144 FPS. Naturally, the difference between the OP's beloved 30FPS and 144FPS would be an even bigger difference.
Interesting. I heard that human eyes cannot perceive anything over 60 fps. Are you serious with your pilot statement?
You heard wrong, friend.
 
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ThoD

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Just because your PC is sub-par (seriously, 1360x768 resolution?) that doesn't mean 60 FPS is "best." What is "best" depends on your definition of "best." Obviously if you're a competitive Overwatch player, the higher the framerate the better. If you play turn-based games you don't need 144 FPS but it certainly looks better. Some people are willing to lower the quality (like you) to get higher framerates and others are perfectly fine raising the quality as high as possible, regardless of the resulting framerate. I recently got a 144Hz monitor and the difference is night and day between 60 and 144 FPS. Naturally, the difference between the OP's beloved 30FPS and 144FPS would be an even bigger difference.

You heard wrong, friend.
What does resolution and quality have to do with one another? Unless you are standing like 5cm from the screen or if you are playing on a 70 inch monitor, you don't need high resolutions. The only thing resolution changes is the density of the pixels, meaning that as long as you don't see them separately (eg: like when on a handheld system), it's good already. Turning the resolution all the way up to 1080 on any monitor bellow 30 inches is overkill. I never said 144 was bad, but 60 is optimal for not ultra-spec PCs. As for the "competitive Overwatch player", overwatch doesn't need that many frames anyway, especially how it uses a fill-in method of raising the rate past 75, where it doesn't matter anymore. You seem to think that frames make you move faster or lower your response time, they don't, frames are just what's shown, not what's happening. If you wanted no input lag, you would be playing using a HD CRT monitor.

Interesting. I heard that human eyes cannot perceive anything over 60 fps. Are you serious with your pilot statement?
There's an airbase where they train pilots just 15 minutes away on foot from here, so we get to meet some (fellow uni students, only they go to military uni) and they've said that it's true. For Greece though it's 1/200-235 frames and anything above is not needed as there's no war or anything going on.
 

sarkwalvein

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What's wrong with liking 60FPS?
Or going to the point, higher FPS, say 200FPS?

I mean, sure it will always be smoother, the human eye can even get small reactions/hints up to 500FPS (like a short flashing frame), so what is wrong about longing for that?

It is the same as saying "why do people want more polycount in their game models?", you know (given the model is well made) more polycount means more detail, the same as "why do people want a bigger screen resolution?" or "why do people want higher quality textures?". This also makes the visual quality better (in a independent direction from FPS).

So then comes the obvious problem here, you could say the visual quality of moving pictures is composed of fluidity (FPS) and picture quality (depending on resolution, polycount, shaders, etc).

Both fluidity and picture quality compete for limited resources, so you have to make a tradeoff. If your reactions and inputs influence the outcome of what is being shown (as in eg. a video game) fluidity would be way more important than in something which outcome doesn't depend on your reactions (say a film). If you improve fluidity you reduce your own lag and you improve the gaming experience.

Out of my preferences I would say you have to go for the required acceptable FPS for the type of game, and only then improve the picture quality as much as you can, if you then can get extra FPS then that is a big plus.

Anyone that tells you the human eye can only see 24FPS, or 60FPS, or 200FPS, well, this person is lying. Those FPS were set due to technological restrictions, it was a tradeoff, and the human eyes and brain are good at adapting to them and filling the blanks, but humans can see and react to way shorter stimuli, even short enough that your brain is not able to process them completely but your "reflexes" can react to them.

That said, of course you can go out of your way and drop resources like crazy to, let's say, make your daily conmute on an F-22, sure that would go fast, but is it worth it? Sometimes it is better to just take your standard cheap domestic flight service, it is good enough and it will not drain your pocket. The same thing applies to the diminishing returns of improving an old game engine or buying additional hardware.
 
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What does resolution and quality have to do with one another?
Everything. You don't need to have your face next to a monitor to see the difference between 720p and 1080p. A stretched 720p image can look similar to a 1080p image with low quality settings. Blurriness can be a big problem when dealing with text-heavy games.
overwatch doesn't need that many frames anyway, especially how it uses a fill-in method of raising the rate past 75,
Can't seem to find that information anywhere. Link?
You seem to think that frames make you move faster or lower your response time, they don't, frames are just what's shown, not what's happening.
The higher your framerate the more likely you are to have the most recent/accurate frame. I'd say that's rather important in competitive environments (but also rather helpful in general).
 

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I still maintain that when people stop being tarts and instead do proper motion blur that things will get better. Motion blur presently looks like arse because it is not relative in most things and turns things into a uniform mush. Higher FPS is a "cheap" way of working around that.
You can play with motion blur in a video camera via the shutter speed and such but you still have some and that is part of what videos can get away with a lot less (17fps, like some old war films, is generally considered about the limit, why also lazy TV producers just speed it up. 24 then got used for film, 25frames/50fields for PAL regions, 30frames/60 fields for NTSC and as Japan and the US both use NTSC and yeah).

As far as human eyes go and differences perceived then your eyes don't take many pictures per second... it is a lot odder. Focal points, peripheral vision, psychological effects and more all come into play, and in ways people don't immediately expect.

"more reaction time" is something of a fallacy for if you are not predicting ahead you have likely already lost.
 
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sarkwalvein

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"more reaction time" is something of a fallacy for if you are not predicting ahead you have likely already lost.
Proper motion blur sure improves apparent visual quality and is very well suited for films, but it will not improve your stimuli-reflex reaction time, and regarding the "fallacy" well, tell that to a F1 pilot avoiding an accident or to anybody that avoids a punch or a ball coming to their face without even thinking about it.
 

DBlaze

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I don't have much of a problem with playing either on 30 or 60 fps (or higher)
What I have a problem with, is when something can't maintain the framerate and dips all over the place. That's when it gets annoying.
 

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I don't have much of a problem with playing either on 30 or 60 fps (or higher)
What I have a problem with, is when something can't maintain the framerate and dips all over the place. That's when it gets annoying.
Yeah, uniform frame pacing is way more important than raw FPS, but people normally only do the FPS talk for some reason.
 
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FAST6191

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If you are this guy

Then sure.
Most of us are not that guy though.

To then burn resources on doubling or even worse frame rates when it could be spent on something to make it look shinier, display more things, draw further... or any one of a myriad things.

Equally with latencies climbing back up again most of this seems academic as more frames in that case does not make a whole lot of odds.

To come slightly the other way it also could be either written off with notions of does it matter? I am not going to dodge a bullet. Also could this not be a thing gameplay design takes care of? We already do loads of it for ping negation and games have long telegraphed things about to happen, cinema is also replete with examples (the 180 degree rule and all that is covered in this being a good start).

It all reminds me of "super tasters" and "golden ear" types, even if you get rid of the people that just want to have a rare skill I am usually content to write it off with "sucks to be you then".
 

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The reason people like 60 fps so much is because we can see the difference, and if you can't, no answer can satisfy you.
It has to do with what you are used to too. If you have been using a screen with 30 FPS, you can't tell the difference by moving to 60 straight away, but if you are used to 60, it's glaringly obvious if you move down to 30. That's why people who play on consoles often claim they can't tell the difference. However, something like from 30 to 100+ is obvious for everyone with eyes.
 
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Ritsuki

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Interesting. I heard that human eyes cannot perceive anything over 60 fps. Are you serious with your pilot statement?

Most of the people here are actually partially wrong, we can perceive way more than 24 FPS, but the problem is not with perception. One of the problems is how and at what speed the brain can process the information. Technically you will "see" the image, but your brain will have a hard time telling you that you saw it. That's one of the way subliminal messages works : the information will be in your brain, but you won't be aware of it. And fluidity ≠ higher fps. For example, in movies, you can use blur to create fluidity. With that, even something animated in 17-18 fps will look fluid. Without it, you would need at least 50 fps in game for the animation to look fluid.

But trying to determine a fps limit for the eye is actually not very pertinent, because we don't see things as a succession of images, but as a continuous flow of information. So basically it has more to do with the brain than the eye itself. The fps is important on screens, and the refresh rate will also affect the fluidity. The minimum fps has more to do with performance, costs, the type of screen used, refresh rate, and blur than with perception.

Here's an illustration of what I tried to explain :
xngbdts.gif
 

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The fps is important on screens, and the refresh rate will also affect the fluidity. The minimum fps has more to do with performance, costs, the type of screen used, refresh rate, and blur than with perception.

Here's an illustration of what I tried to explain :
xngbdts.gif
A little correction, refresh rate and FPS are basically the exact same thing, only difference is that refresh rate has to do with the frequency crystal used for the screens, so while refresh rate is in Hz, it's the same as FPS (eg: rf of 60Hz is 60FPS). No need to separate those two. Also, while the picture supposedly shows the "difference", it's not really accurate. You can't compare 60 and 24FPS on the same screen all the time, as one of the two will actually get chopped because of round ups/downs. So you can only compare things like 30 and 60 on a 60Hz monitor (basically it needs to be dividable by the same number for both, so something like 30 and 60 in a 75Hz monitor aren't displayed properly and same goes if you are on 144 where everything needs to be at least slightly chopped distorted unless you resort to fill-ins).
 
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A little correction, refresh rate and FPS are basically the exact same thing, only difference is that refresh rate has to do with the frequency crystal used for the screens, so while refresh rate is in Hz, it's the same as FPS (eg: rf of 60Hz is 60FPS). No need to separate those two. Also, while the picture supposedly shows the "difference", it's not really accurate. You can't compare 60 and 24FPS on the same screen all the time, as one of the two will actually get chopped because of round ups/downs. So you can only compare things like 30 and 60 on a 60Hz monitor (basically it needs to be dividable by the same number for both, so something like 30 and 60 in a 75Hz monitor aren't displayed properly and same goes if you are on 144 where everything needs to be at least slightly chopped distorted unless you resort to fill-ins).
Well said, and so if your monitor had 120Hz refresh rate you could perfectly see the difference between 60FPS and 24FPS without chopping, and 120Hz is actually a quite common refresh rate.
 
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I enjoy my 60Hz 1080p screen just fine. It keeps up with my Switch games just fine. I only struggle with screen realestate for Photoshop, but that's about it.
 

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