U.S. Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion rights decision

[JuanMena]

It's not my job to raise other peoples children. It's the parents job to raise and nurture their offspring. Why do you support the parents not feeding their children?

It's not your job to decide over a woman's right to choose, it's her's. Why do you support forced labour on women that can't/won't have the resources to feed their children?

 

[Deleted member 559230]

It's not your job to decide over a woman's right to choose, it's her's. Why do you support forced labour on women that can't/won't have the resources to feed their children?

Women have plenty of opportunities to obtain food, shelter and clothes for their children. All they have to do is get a job. They have 9 months to prepare. They shouldn't be getting pregnant in the first place if they don't want to raise a child. If you don't want a child then don't make one, but if you make one its your responsibility to care for it. You see, conservatives promote responsible actions and liberals make excuses for horrible people. The reason why kids go hungry is bad people doing bad things, that includes the parents and anyone that would make excuses for the parents actions.

 

[JuanMena]

Women have plenty of opportunities to obtain food, shelter and clothes for their children. All they have to do is get a job. They have 9 months to prepare. They shouldn't be getting pregnant in the first place if they don't want to raise a child. If you don't want a child then don't make one, but if you make one its your responsibility to care for it. You see, conservatives promote responsible actions and liberals make excuses for horrible people. The reason why kids go hungry is bad people doing bad things, that includes the parents and anyone that would make excuses for the parents actions.

Haha! Let me guess...

You own a truck.
You wear a cap, backwards, sleeveless tee.
Healthcare for obesity.
Think USA is the best country in the entire world.
Thinks woman that are raped shouldn't get pregonant if they didn't wanted to have sex.
Have a doormat that says WELCOME, but it's clean because nobody goes to your home, except you and possibly 10 more children that you support with social programs.
Would vote for Trump TWICE.
Owns a gun.

 

[Lacius]

conservatives promote responsible actions

A lot of the anti-LGBT bills we've been seeing are going to result in dead children. The anti-abortion bills/trigger laws are going to result in dead women. I wonder if conservatives will be accepting any of that so-called personal responsibility.

 

[osaka35]

What a hot take from the supreme court. There's the science, there's the tradition, and there's the role of the government. There's also the metaphysical "like, what even IS a human" or "is the soul in the mind, or does it exist outside of the person?", but you really shouldn't be giving the government the power to making laws based on this.

The science says a fertilized egg is a blueprint for a human. As the fertilized egg grows, the host body contributes the resources needed to build the human from the blueprints. The final result will vary pretty strongly from the blueprints, based on the resources provided (environment, etc). At what point does it cross over from "a blueprint in progress" to "a human life" is usually accepted as when the brain begins to develop. This is around the third trimester(around 27 weeks). Abortion is almost always not allowed at this point, unless the life of the host is in danger (just as you cannot be forced to give a kidney or donate blood to save a life, you cannot be forced to die to save the life of an unborn child). The science is pretty clear-cut and well-established about this.

The tradition aspect will vary. Catholic dogma, for instance, asserts the whole of the human is contained in the sperm. Comes from a bronze-age understanding of how humans work. This is why they view masturbation as a sin. masturbation=abortion. The womb is just "fertile ground" where the "seed" of the man is grown. A lot of western christian dogma also comes from this misunderstanding of how humans work. Usually it basically comes down to "when does the soul enter the picture?", if you believe in such things. As this is based on tradition, rather than science, the question becomes "can you assert this tradition on everyone?".

Regardless of where you stand on the science or tradition, what role does the government have in regulating the autonomy of the human body? In the US, and most developed countries I'm aware of, you cannot be compelled to give or donate your body for the benefit of others, not even to save their life. no matter how little or nonexistent the inconvenience, nor does it matter how much it's your fault it's happening. You methodically plan out and stab someone in the kidney? you still can't be compelled to give them your kidney. Not how it works. Why would it be any different in this particular situation?

 

[Xzi]

@Xzi @JonhathonBaxster Think you two could take it to PM’s instead of having a cat fight in here? That is, unless your little squabble about minorities has anything at all to do with the subject? The link is tenuous at best.

Nah I think he's done trying to conflate political/religious and racial/ethnic minorities. It was a stupid tactic to begin with, of course, and signaled that he had no logical argument against the point I was making.

"Pro-life" is an absolute farce. These people are pro forced birth, pro school to prison pipeline, pro cannon fodder for frivolous wars. Anybody who is genuinely pro-life would be fighting for more social safety nets for both young children and impoverished mothers. Anything less than that is just virtue signaling for virtues that they do not possess.

 

[seany1990]

“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”​

― Methodist Pastor David Barnhart

 

[zfreeman]

The tradition aspect will vary. Catholic dogma, for instance, asserts the whole of the human is contained in the sperm. Comes from a bronze-age understanding of how humans work. This is why they view masturbation as a sin. masturbation=abortion. The womb is just "fertile ground" where the "seed" of the man is grown. A lot of western christian dogma also comes from this misunderstanding of how humans work. Usually it basically comes down to "when does the soul enter the picture?", if you believe in such things. As this is based on tradition, rather than science, the question becomes "can you assert this tradition on everyone?".

Regarding Catholicism, the whole of the human is created at the moment of conception, fertilization of the egg. You might be thinking of that hyperbolic Monty Python skit, 'Every Sperm is Sacred'. Masturbation is considered a sin because it intrinsically involves lust. You are correct about it boiling down to "when does the soul enter the picture?" Catholic answers to this question were further defined by Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas. For the SparkNotes version, look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's a little dogmatic by default, but it's based on Natural Law.

To simplify: over time, if the situation begets life, it should be promoted; if it does not, it should be discouraged. That's why Catholics defend a frozen zygote, as opposed to a murderer on death row.

 

[Xzi]

Regarding Catholicism, the whole of the human is created at the moment of conception, fertilization of the egg. You might be thinking of that Monty Python skit, 'Every Sperm is Sacred'. Masturbation is considered a sin because it intrinsically involves lust. You are correct about it boiling down to "when does the soul enter the picture?" Catholic answers to this question were further defined by Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas. For the SparkNotes version, look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's a little dogmatic, but it's based on Natural Law.

To simplify: over time, if the situation begets life, it should be promoted; if it does not, it should be discouraged. That's why Catholics defend a frozen zygote, as opposed to a comatose patient on life support.

Boils down to religious tribalism, and wanting to have more children available to indoctrinate than the others. Some real dark ages shit that you would've thought we had gotten past by now, but apparently not.

 

[osaka35]

Regarding Catholicism, the whole of the human is created at the moment of conception, fertilization of the egg. You might be thinking of that Monty Python skit, 'Every Sperm is Sacred'. Masturbation is considered a sin because it intrinsically involves lust. You are correct about it boiling down to "when does the soul enter the picture?" Catholic answers to this question were further defined by Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas. For the SparkNotes version, look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It's a little dogmatic, but it's based on Natural Law.

To simplify: over time, if the situation begets life, it should be promoted; if it does not, it should be discouraged. That's why Catholics defend a frozen zygote, as opposed to a comatose patient on life support.

monty python didn't create the thinking, they were making fun of the thinking. the idea "creation at conception" is how catholics adapted the biblical thinking to the 20th century, and the explanation for continuing the tradition changed from "baby murder" to "lust". I'd imagine some old-school catholics still believe the whole of the person resides in the sperm, as it says in the christian bible. Current explanations have been retconned to be slightly more palatable to 20th century thinking, but it still doesn't align with science. just tradition.

Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas didn't have the knowledge we have today; they ruminated on limited knowledge. Important thinking, but philosophy has come a long way since then.

It's been my experience that faith-based arguments are rarely dissuaded by other faith-based arguments. or science. So, the argument that anything which promotes life is a good thing? it seems like a personal argument, and not something that can or should be enforced on those who are not of the same religious tradition.

 

[Valwinz]

Nobody could possibly be against letting the states decide

 

[Xzi]

Nobody could possibly be against letting the states decide

We're talking about women's bodily autonomy here, it's not the government's place to interfere with that. Neither on the state nor federal level. Women who don't have access to these services will just travel to states that do. This will also make legal abortion states targets for far-right terrorism.

 

[Jayro]

Boy, for a country that likes to be seen as a bastion of democracy and freedom sure is heading back to the dark ages of the Middle Ages.

Let me assure you, US is becoming a bastion of neither to the eyes of outside democracies. The way I'm seeing here, it'll soon become a religious authocracy.

No offence intended for the fellow Americans here, just a wake up call.

It's funny how most of the U.S.A.'s problems stem from religion... Just sayin'. (Abortion, gay rights, etc.)

 

[MariArch]

God Bless. Don't stop the march for life. Next we need to push for a federal ban.

 

[Valwinz]

We're talking about women's bodily autonomy here, it's not the government's place to interfere with that. Neither on the state nor federal level. Women who don't have access to these services will just travel to states that do. This will also make legal abortion states targets for far-right terrorism.

Government good when it went my way now government bad when does not go my way

States decide as it should be if the people in the state want abortion they will vote for pro-baby murder candidates

 

[worm28]

My uncles an abortion doctor he says when you squeeze a fetus they pop he laughs about it and says he pops them all the time.

 

[pustal]

It's funny how most of the U.S.A.'s problems stem from religion... Just sayin'. (Abortion, gay rights, etc.)

It is sad really, specially when is a country that early saw the importance of sepparatting church and state.

What is funny to me is that this supply side Jesus and supply side Christianity cherish so much the Bible without seemingly to have read much of the New Testament. Jesus himself was for sepparattion of church and state, according to Matthew (22:21).

Government good when it went my way now government bad when does not go my way

States decide as it should be if the people in the state want abortion they will vote for pro-baby murder candidates

Aside for not grasping the concept that a fetus is not a sentient life, you also do not seem to grasp that women's body is not public property.

 

[Jayro]

God Bless. Don't stop the march for life. Next we need to push for a federal ban.

Not happening federally. There are more of us than there are of you.

 

[The Catboy]

God Bless. Don't stop the march for life. Next we need to push for a federal ban.

There’s no such thing as banning abortions, there’s only bringing them back to dirty motels

 

[XDel]

It's weird, everyone frets about the Ukraine, but when it comes to the unborn... silence.