Roe V Wade: Solve et Coagula USA (meta-analysis)

[Creamu]

After looking at the Roe V Wade specticale, I have noticed certain points that could indicate the trajectory of the american empire. I'm going to share my thoughts and invite you to share your perspective as well.

Yascha Mounk writes that the hyperpolarisation of the USA is at an historical high:

The authors’ conclusion is startling: No established democracy in recent history has been as deeply polarized as the U.S. “For the United States,” Jennifer McCoy, the lead author of the study and a political-science professor at Georgia State University, told me in an interview, “I am very pessimistic.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...crat-republican-partisan-polarization/629925/

That means that the foundation of the current US governemnt is unstable. This is important to consider, when watching american political dicourse.

Since Roe V Wade is repealed the question of abortion is no longer mandated on a federal level. The states now are meant to take the responsibility of deciding on abortion. This will lead to political conflicts and decisions on a state level. Apart from it's centerstage appearance, perhaps this is meant to function as nothing more as a smokescreen to keep the attention away from other things. I have the impression that there is more to it, however.

“They had lots of different names—they were John Birchers, they were ‘movement conservatives,’ they were the religious right. And we did what every other Republican candidate did: we exploited them. We got them to the polls. We talked about abortion. We promised—and we did nothing. They could grumble, but their choices were limited.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...e-donald-trump-as-the-gops-combatant-in-chief

After abortion the next target is going to be gay marriage amoung other issues. With this we can see a trend towards the breakdown of the federalisation of america over time. With this the constition does loose its power at least to an extend (less centralisation of power).

Roe V Wade could have been repealed a long time ago so why now?

Decentralisation will make america frail and weak, with the breakdown of the concept of consolidated centralisation. The central government stops being the central arbiter of justice, but why are they doing this? What are they going for in the long run? A breakdown of the american empire? The removal of democracy? A reforming of the western world to an offical empire?

What does decentralisation allow for?
Weakend small states in contrast to a centralised power that could easily be overthrown and overtaken in full when in question. Destroying the american empire before this happens might be a motivator (stopping opposition). Small states can be weakend and positioned (incoherent populus amoung other things) so it is not plausible that they can secede.

We urgently need visionary leaders and institutional reforms that can lower the stakes of political competition. Imagining what a depolarization of American politics would look like is not too difficult. The only problem is that America’s political partisans may already hate one another too much to take the steps necessary to avoid catastrophe.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...crat-republican-partisan-polarization/629925/

 

[Xzi]

Decentralisation will make america frail and weak, with the breakdown of the concept of consolidated centralisation. The central government stops being the central arbiter of justice, but why are they doing this? What are they going for in the long run? A breakdown of the american empire? The removal of democracy? A reforming of the western world to an offical empire?

They're going for fascist oligarchy, and corporations will be there to crack the whip if/when the government loses relevance. They won't allow for decentralization. Gotta get all the cattle in line before shit really starts hitting the fan (climate change, resource wars). It's the only way the rich and powerful can insulate themselves from the consequences of their own failures.

 

[Creamu]

They're going for fascist oligarchy, and corporations will be there to crack the whip if/when the government loses relevance. They won't allow for decentralization. Gotta get all the cattle in line before shit really starts hitting the fan (climate change, resource wars). It's the only way the rich and powerful can insulate themselves from the consequences of their own failures.

I think before they can do such a political shift, like you have suggested, they need to desolve the current american conception. The problem for them with a centralised government is, that it is easily taken over in full by opposing forces. This leads me to believe that they will decentralise while making seceding impossible for the individual states. After that they will form something new, and it might very well be what you have suggested.

Roe V Wade as well as the decisions that will follow it by the underlying principle are a strong move towards decentralisation.

 

[Xzi]

The problem for them with a centralised government is, that it is easily taken over in full by opposing forces.

I mean, there might be a spike in soldiers going AWOL or defecting for a time, but they'd still have the vast majority of the US military at their command. The transition to oligarchy won't necessarily be as jarring as you'd think, given that two different sets of corporations already own both political parties.

 

[Creamu]

I mean, there might be a spike in soldiers going AWOL or defecting for a time, but they'd still have the vast majority of the US military at their command. The transition to oligarchy won't necessarily be as jarring as you'd think, given that two different sets of corporations already own both political parties.

I see your point, but they doing this in an unoffical manner. They need something that will be largely precived as legitimate. They will produce chaos and emerge as the saviors.

 

[Xzi]

I see your point, but they doing this in an unoffical manner. They need something that will be largely precived as legitimate. They will produce chaos and emerge as the saviors.

True, but they're already viewed as saviors by a lot of Americans who hold authoritarian beliefs themselves. Pretty easy to get the Old Testament crowd to cheer for the loss of freedoms.

 

[Creamu]

True, but they're already viewed as saviors by a lot of Americans who hold authoritarian beliefs themselves. Pretty easy to get the Old Testament crowd to cheer for the loss of freedoms.

That is true, but this goes for both sides. There are neo liberal elements who happly cheer on the loss of freedoms of the american populus while praising the plutocrats as well. This makes it easy for the 'elites' to create decentralised chaos they can capitalise on. Maybe it will slip out of their hands and an organic movement will take over.

It is important to remember that the christian right and the neo liberals are not representative of the majority opinions.

https://hiddentribes.us/

 

[Creamu]

A point I forgot to mention here is that when the Roe V Wade and gay marriage issue when brought to state level disputes, it is a good device to keep the populus occupied with issues that are insignificant to the higher ups.

It also gives the usual republican voter the illusion that anything of substance is happening/going to happen. I also predict that these issues will be used to elevate Ron Desantis to the forefront of public discourse while keeping Trump out of the picture.

Biden they no longer want, but they also don't want Trump. He is willing to do what is demanded of him, but his ideosyncratic behavior causes too much instability for the higher ups. This is were the Roe V Wade and gay marriage debate as well as Ron Desantis comes into play.

 

[omgcat]

Biden they no longer want, but they also don't want Trump. He is willing to do what is demanded of him, but his ideosyncratic behavior causes too much instability for the higher ups. This is were the Roe V Wade and gay marriage debate as well as Ron Desantis comes into play.

i think this is an interesting topic of discussion. there seems to be a growing push on both sides to shed the current leaders, and for the dems there is a growing support for a 2024 Gov newsom run. in a contest between biden and desantis, desantis would probably win hands down, however the same cannot be said for a Newsom vs Desantis fight. while Desantis has grown his base through the anti-trans/gay sentiment, the republicans seem to be in a dog catching the car scenario around abortion and the overturning of Roe v Wade. Newsom handily beat a recall vote last year, and lead californian's to a record 97 Billion dollar budget surplus. in the end, i feel a Newsom v Desantis race will come down to the shape of the post-roe political landscape, especially as a woman was forced to carry dead fetuses in them for 2 weeks, as well as a 10 year old having to flee their states to get an abortion after getting raped. I'm pretty sure things are going to get more shocking as around 1000 or so minors need abortions due to rape every year. states such as south Carolina are pushing laws that would prohibit said minors from leaving the state to get the abortions under penalties of up to 25 years in prison for all parties involved.

 

[Deleted member 114266]

i think this is an interesting topic of discussion. there seems to be a growing push on both sides to shed the current leaders, and for the dems there is a growing support for a 2024 Gov newsom run. in a contest between biden and desantis, desantis would probably win hands down, however the same cannot be said for a Newsom vs Desantis fight. while Desantis has grown his base through the anti-trans/gay sentiment, the republicans seem to be in a dog catching the car scenario around abortion and the overturning of Roe v Wade. Newsom handily beat a recall vote last year, and lead californian's to a record 97 Billion dollar budget surplus. in the end, i feel a Newsom v Desantis race will come down to the shape of the post-roe political landscape, especially as a woman was forced to carry dead fetuses in them for 2 weeks, as well as a 10 year old having to flee their states to get an abortion after getting raped. I'm pretty sure things are going to get more shocking as around 1000 or so minors need abortions due to rape every year. states such as south Carolina are pushing laws that would prohibit said minors from leaving the state to get the abortions under penalties of up to 25 years in prison for all parties involved.

And installing Nancy Pelosi's nephew would continue the wonderful tradition of nepotism in the US government that has led to many great advancements.

 

[omgcat]

Nancy Pelosi's nephew

"Gov. Gavin Newsom's aunt, Barbara Newsom, was once married to Ron Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law. Barbara Newsom and Ron Pelosi divorced in 1977."

That's not a nephew. In fact that is such a reach you'd be torn in half if you tried to reach that far in real life.

You ok buddy?

 

[Deleted member 114266]

"Gov. Gavin Newsom's aunt, Barbara Newsom, was once married to Ron Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law. Barbara Newsom and Ron Pelosi divorced in 1977."

That's not a nephew. In fact that is such a reach you'd be torn in half if you tried to reach that far in real life.

You ok buddy?

Look into the history of Rockefellers, Duponts, Rothchilds, etc. That is a very close relation in terms of some of the things those families went through to continue their legacies.

 

[Creamu]

i think this is an interesting topic of discussion. there seems to be a growing push on both sides to shed the current leaders, and for the dems there is a growing support for a 2024 Gov newsom run. in a contest between biden and desantis, desantis would probably win hands down, however the same cannot be said for a Newsom vs Desantis fight.

Interesting, I haven't looked into Newsom yet. Without knowing the details, my gut feeling is that Desantis is the worst option. He is meant to be a Ronald Reagan style sleeping aid that would further the downward sprial of death (if executed successfully). This would be incredibly unfrotunate. There is the question if a sleeping aid Reagan move is even possible in a so incoherent american system.

while Desantis has grown his base through the anti-trans/gay sentiment, the republicans seem to be in a dog catching the car scenario around abortion and the overturning of Roe v Wade. Newsom handily beat a recall vote last year, and lead californian's to a record 97 Billion dollar budget surplus. in the end, i feel a Newsom v Desantis race will come down to the shape of the post-roe political landscape, especially as a woman was forced to carry dead fetuses in them for 2 weeks, as well as a 10 year old having to flee their states to get an abortion after getting raped. I'm pretty sure things are going to get more shocking as around 1000 or so minors need abortions due to rape every year. states such as south Carolina are pushing laws that would prohibit said minors from leaving the state to get the abortions under penalties of up to 25 years in prison for all parties involved.

Very interesting. It seems like however you look at it, the american system seems irrational and unhinged. I'm sure if the american populus would be taken into account without caducean games there could be a consensus on this issues most people could agree with, but that wouldn't take the attention of people from more pressing issues that USA is faced with today.