Trump plans to end birthright citizenship

[Song of storms]

Good!

 

[Clydefrosch]

That's maybe the issue with America? Maybe there are too many abuse of travel birth, or border birth, done on purpose just to get a future for your kids in a good country?

that's really not the issue.
that's the shallow justification they'll use in a court setting, but it's really not the actual reason. if finances mattered to the current administration or people in general, they wouldn't look towards this, but towards military spending and crazy tax cuts that save the average joe 50 bucks a year, while someone who could finance 10 lifetimes for Joe with their yearly income, saves hundreds of thousands.


also, you guys, this seriously isn't even donalds actual aim. birthright citizenship is a test run. something that he certainly loves to change, but likely wouldn't care if it didn't work out.
the point of this is to see if he can take out a constitutional amendment and if he can, to move on to more important ones, like that pesky first one the right hates so much.

 

[CallmeBerto]

that's really not the issue.
that's the shallow justification they'll use in a court setting, but it's really not the actual reason. if finances mattered to the current administration or people in general, they wouldn't look towards this, but towards military spending and crazy tax cuts that save the average joe 50 bucks a year, while someone who could finance 10 lifetimes for Joe with their yearly income, saves hundreds of thousands.


also, you guys, this seriously isn't even donalds actual aim. birthright citizenship is a test run. something that he certainly loves to change, but likely wouldn't care if it didn't work out.
the point of this is to see if he can take out a constitutional amendment and if he can, to move on to more important ones, like that pesky first one the right hates so much.

How high were you when you wrote this? Military spending accounts for about 17% of our budget while shit like welfare and SS (so more welfare) takes up over 50% of our budget. It is about saving money. I still think it is a stupid idea but that is their plan.

The right hates free speech? Since when? Look at the left and how they try to de-platform everyone they disagree with.

 

[Taleweaver]

Out of curiosity, what's your views in immigration?

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I disagree. You don't become president by having 'no overall goal'. This is the same guy who was tossed out of the predictions entirely. This is the same guy who somehow has enough control over congress to avoid impeachment.

Sheer luck?

I don't think so.

Whether you love him or hate him, it's a terrible idea to underestimate him.

It isn't about underestimation but about experience. He has spouted controversial ideas almost on a daily basis. Yet despite holding a majority in senate, hardly any of his ideas take off. Hillary is not behind bars, the Wall with Mexico isn't being built, he has no alternative to Obama care, North Korea isn't disarming, and so on.

In a cynical way I agree with what you say : his long term goal consists of "not being impeached". He's good at that, absolutely. But these "plans" go just on the pile of "things to get people worked up over".

 

[Pluupy]

Since when is not learning the history of the country you want to live in not important? You think just because it happens in the past does not make it important? Perhaps we should forget about how the Nazis killed 6 million Jews and almost took over the world, Because you know it happens in the past to its not important....

The european holocost has nothing to do with US history.

 

[invaderyoyo]

He might try to argue that illegal aliens are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". If that happens a good question would be; How can they be charged of crimes if they're not under US jurisdiction?

 

[x65943]

The european holocost has nothing to do with US history.

Not entirely. The allies had reports of what was going on but we didn't use resources to bomb prisoner transit routes.

Also we turned away Jewish refugees many of whom died in the holocaust

He might try to argue that illegal aliens are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". If that happens a good question would be; How can they be charged of crimes if they're not under US jurisdiction?

They can't. And in that case the proper solution is deportation and trial in their native land.

 

[invaderyoyo]

Not entirely. The allies had reports of what was going on but we didn't use resources to bomb prisoner transit routes.

Also we turned away Jewish refugees many of whom died in the holocaust

They can't. And in that case the proper solution is deportation and trial in their native land.

Can they even be apprehended if they're not under US jurisdiction? Also, crimes are usually adjudicated in the country they're committed. Why would Mexico hold a trial for a robbery that was committed in the US?

 

[Viri]

For birth citizenship, France changed it in 1850 to be "double jus solis", you need 2 generations of birth to get it. If you are born in France, from one of your parent born in France too, then you get citizenship.

I like the 2 generation idea. Also, France is surrounded by EU members, who can freely travel anywhere they want in the EU. We have a country to the south of us, with people sneaking in, and some giving birth purposely in the US to have citizenship. It's to the point where we even have nicknames for them(anchor babies). Can't deport the mommy, if the baby is now a US citizen, because she was born in Texas.

 

[the_randomizer]

I like the 2 generation idea. Also, France is surrounded by EU members, who can freely travel anywhere they want in the EU. We have a country to the south of us, with people sneaking in, and some giving birth purposely in the US to have citizenship. It's to the point where we even have nicknames for them(anchor babies). Can't deport the mommy, if the baby is now a US citizen, because she was born in Texas.

Don't you just love our broken BS system?

 

[Taleweaver]

How high were you when you wrote this? Military spending accounts for about 17% of our budget while shit like welfare and SS (so more welfare) takes up over 50% of our budget. It is about saving money. I still think it is a stupid idea but that is their plan.

The right hates free speech? Since when? Look at the left and how they try to de-platform everyone they disagree with.

News flash : not everyone will you disagree with is stupid, drunk or high Or wrong, for that matter. US military isn't just the highest in the world but also more than the next seven runners - up combined. Compared to the cost of immigration, immigration is next to zero. Or even negative, if you consider that immigrants become subjective to paying taxes.

I find it rather funny that you don't even see the irony in your post : you start out with a personal attack to undermine an idea and end with not understanding that the right doesn't like free speech. Good going on that, dude. I initially wasn't agreeing with @Clydefrosch on trump 's intentions, but it's kind of hard to keep that up when you unintentionally illustrate his very point.

 

[Glyptofane]

I haven't been feeling all that well this week (long story, but I've cried a couple times this week), and as a result, my logic went to shit. Still wanted to apologize. Political discussions bring out the worst in me and I haven't figured out why I get caught up in them. No hard feelings.

Hope you're feeling better, but that's rough. I'm not sure if it's due to long term alcoholism, but my tears are like toxic acid, leaving my eyes swollen and irritated for days after crying. Is this natural?

 

[the_randomizer]

Hope you're feeling better, but that's rough. I'm not sure if it's due to long term alcoholism, but my tears are like toxic acid, leaving my eyes swollen and irritated for days after crying. Is this natural?

Don't know. There's been so much shit I've been dealing with lately, trying to get my life back in order, I can't even formulate a proper political opinion, probably for the best

 

[CallmeBerto]

News flash : not everyone will you disagree with is stupid, drunk or high Or wrong, for that matter. US military isn't just the highest in the world but also more than the next seven runners - up combined. Compared to the cost of immigration, immigration is next to zero. Or even negative, if you consider that immigrants become subjective to paying taxes.

I find it rather funny that you don't even see the irony in your post : you start out with a personal attack to undermine an idea and end with not understanding that the right doesn't like free speech. Good going on that, dude. I initially wasn't agreeing with @Clydefrosch on trump 's intentions, but it's kind of hard to keep that up when you unintentionally illustrate his very point.

Holy shit dude relax it was a silly jab at him, no need to get your panties in a bunch. The US military spending is stupid high. The reason I compared it to welfare is that NOBODY wants to talk about cutting those programs even though objectively they are the problem by a mile. Hell you on about the right no liking free speech?

 

[Megadriver94]

love it how trump is an immigrant himself and he dislikes this... we are living an era where people think its ok to exclude others or diminish them because of their race/beliefs/ideas... immigration is good, its what keeps the economy moving... but because people believe that immigration takes jobs, increases in crime, loss of nationality and identity people dismiss it.

Brazil is following in the steps of America, bringing a person that is in not qualified to run a country into power. with stupid idealist ideas. This is how Hitler and the nazi party gained popularity after the wwI... its sad to see this hapening.

I still believe that we need younger people in power... not millennials, but people close to that(80's)... im sick of old basterds telling me what they think is good for the country... we need younger people in power who understands the new generations...

the old basterds are dying, nobody cares what a 70 year old man thinks this world is heading too... they wont be alive for much longer

LOL you misspelled a few word in your BS rant. Also, Immigration isn't always a good thing, and its not the only thing that keeps the economy running! Some people who come to this country are actual criminals trafficking drugs and child slaves and other things. Plus, illegal immigration is a fucking crime, PERIOD!

I raise the obvious question, but if Trump were to redefine birthright citizenship and it were applied retroactively*, would Trump be a US citizen? Would most US citizens? The fact is that before the 14th Amendment people understood that natural born citizenship** was a thing. That it extended to "all persons" meant slaves was precisely because of the racism that excluded blacks as persons. Then a later court case extended it to Asian-Americans who also had been historically deprived citizenship.

Really, the discussion that was brought up is true, that at the time of the 14th Amendment there wasn't an "illegal alien" problem. Why? Because heavily the US had an open border policy. But the racism took hold and the West Coast fought to keep out the Chinese and the East Coast tried to keep out the Catholics/Irish. It's little wonder there's a massive influx of racism now and how all the "changing demographic" will upset the purity of the United States--ie, utter hogwash given how impure the United States is and really deplorable how many people fight against the real melting pot the US is.

So, the real reason I asked the question at the start? Look again at the map. Why is the "New World" so birthright citizen happy? No doubt because to claim any other mechanism of citizenship as fundamentally supreme and the genocidal conquerors of the "New World" would have all their asses deported back to which they came by the native inhabitants. It'd outright undercut any claim they have to the land they took over.

Listen to the language. The assholes stole the United States and now see more "invaders" who are going to pull the same shit they did, and they want nothing of it. But they want to conveniently exclude only "those" people. If the blackness of what is in their heart were any more bare to the world, they'd all be shards of coal.

* Nominally, US courts don't consider their decisions which change the status/condition of things retroactive even if it has that effect but merely a realization of a correct interpretation/definition.

** In 1844 (ie before the 14th Amendment) there was already an acknowledgment of birthright citizenship.

>all Europeans that came to America are genocidal assholes
Nice condensed cherry-picking of history, fool. No doubt the Native Americans had fights with the White settlers from time to time over land and other resources. However, most of the Amerindians that die end up up dead because of diseases like Smallpox and the Bubonic Plague instead of combat or foul play. Also,
>Melting Pot
A myth and FUCKING LIE invented and coined by arch Zionist parasite by the name of Israel Zangwill. CITIZENS FIRST, you Mooks!
Pic related for both of you soy guzzlers.

 

[kuwanger]

Nice condensed cherry-picking of history, fool. No doubt the Native Americans had fights with the White settlers from time to time over land and other resources. However, most of the Amerindians that die end up up dead because of diseases like Smallpox and the Bubonic Plague instead of combat or foul play. Also,

So, what you're saying is, Europeans weren't genocidal conquerors because if given the chance Native Americans would have done the same to Europeans. And besides, it was mostly an accident anyways? So, what part of that refutes my point? The least you could do is own the genocidal conqueror moniker. That's precisely my point, actually.

A myth and FUCKING LIE invented and coined by arch Zionist parasite by the name of Israel Zangwill. CITIZENS FIRST, you Mooks!

Yep, a total lie. That's why I'm surrounded by tons of European descendants (plus who knows what) who were often mortal enemies in "the old country", and now I don't even know who and how much of where they came from. Hell, I don't even know my lineage, and I don't honestly give a fuck.

Btw, there's plenty of other places in the world that have been melting pots. Really, any place with sufficient amounts of trade or immigration and a lax enough policy of information exchange tends to not only be a melting pot of people but also a melting pot of ideas. To deride the idea is humorous (and sad) because almost always those two things are what make for a powerful nation. Strength in diversity, really.

 

[Megadriver94]

So, what you're saying is, Europeans weren't genocidal conquerors because if given the chance Native Americans would have done the same to Europeans. And besides, it was mostly an accident anyways? So, what part of that refutes my point? The least you could do is own the genocidal conqueror moniker. That's precisely my point, actually.



Yep, a total lie. That's why I'm surrounded by tons of European descendants (plus who knows what) who were often mortal enemies in "the old country", and now I don't even know who and how much of where they came from. Hell, I don't even know my lineage, and I don't honestly give a fuck.

Btw, there's plenty of other places in the world that have been melting pots. Really, any place with sufficient amounts of trade or immigration and a lax enough policy of information exchange tends to not only be a melting pot of people but also a melting pot of ideas. To deride the idea is humorous (and sad) because almost always those two things are what make for a powerful nation. Strength in diversity, really.

>genocidal conquerors
I admit there is truth to this, but you and other soylets like to say it was almost always only whites that did this sort of thing. How about the Armenian Genocide by the Young Turks during the final years of the Ottoman Empire, Rape of Nanking by the Japanese to the Chinese, or the relatively recent Rwandan Genocide In Rwanda and Burundi? Does that ring any bells?
>strength in diversity
Diversity is not always a bad thing, true. Like Diversity of skills and ideas. But the thing is, high amounts of racial and ethnic diversity in a country don't make for a strength. Take a good look at Brazil and Honduras, for example. Very diverse on ethnic grounds, but both are known to have quite high murder rates on average(one Brazilian city in particular, Rio De Janerio, has more murders than ALL OF EUROPE COMBINED!) On the other hand, countries like Iceland, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Norway have less ethnic diversity overall, yet they still tend to be successful countries both economically and in terms of their overall annual crime rates. Multiculturalism is a FUCKING LOAD OF BS!

 

[kuwanger]

I admit there is truth to this, but you and other soylets like to say it was almost always only whites that did this sort of thing.

Thanks for the classic whataboutism. Yes, the Armenian Genocide is precisely where the term genocide originates even though the action is obviously a lot older. So, if you talk Turkey, you talk Armenian Genocide. If you talk WWII China, you talk about the Rape of Nanking. And if you talk about the US and America in general, you talk about the European genocidal conquerors. Funny how when talking about the US, one tends to talk about US-related things.

Take a good look at Brazil and Honduras, for example. Very diverse on ethnic grounds, but both are known to have quite high murder rates on average(one Brazilian city in particular, Rio De Janerio, has more murders than ALL OF EUROPE COMBINED!)

Uh, yea, Brazil is a great example of a place that has a ton of political problems that are definitely ethnic based in part, but if there is any root in that it is precisely in how ethnicity has been used as a basis of hatred against others and a complete rejection of multiculturalism. I mean, you could make the same argument about South Africa which has a similar history and set of obstacles.

On the other hand, countries like Iceland, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Norway have less ethnic diversity overall, yet they still tend to be successful countries both economically and in terms of their overall annual crime rates.

Look at China. Look at India. Now try spinning it all again with the last two bits in some simply, coherent argument that's based on a lack of diversity.

Multiculturalism is a FUCKING LOAD OF BS!

Taken to the extreme, encoding in law, yes. Taken for what it means in the US, to simply allow people to live their own lives within the framework of law, to shape that law through elections, and to amalgamate practices not from one set of practices but a wide variety, and you have what is a melting pot. There's a difference between a stew and a melting pot.

Edit - Speaking specifically of Japan, Japan has had a very long period of being very monocultural. Yet they also had plenty of instability and civil war throughout its history, where murder was the norm. Taking a snapshot of a country at a given time without a framework of appreciating that country gives you an obviously warped history. Norway was similar--a long history of trade and also Viking. Taiwan and Iceland are the story of an island having whatever local inhabitants (if any) displaced with one new government and then having a long period of stability. The defining characteristic isn't having one ethnicity per se.

 

[Megadriver94]

How high were you when you wrote this? Military spending accounts for about 17% of our budget while shit like welfare and SS (so more welfare) takes up over 50% of our budget. It is about saving money. I still think it is a stupid idea but that is their plan.

The right hates free speech? Since when? Look at the left and how they try to de-platform everyone they disagree with.

Both the left and the right have their lunatics and extremists. For the left, there's Femicommies and antifa goons, while on the Right there's ISIS, Al-Quadea, the (((Lord's))) Resistance Army, Boko Haram and the Orange Volunteers. Both live in their own shitty ideological bubbles.

 

[CallmeBerto]

Both the left and the right have their lunatics and extremists. For the left, there's Femicommies and antifa goons, while on the Right there's ISIS, Al-Quadea, the (((Lord's))) Resistance Army, Boko Haram and the Orange Volunteers. Both live in their own shitty ideological bubbles.

Yeah, I can agree with all that. However, I was more speaking to the comment he made in regards to which party is against free speech.