Socialised medical care?

Do you have it and do you agree with it?

  • My country has it and I agree with it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • My country has it but I disagree with it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • My country doesn't have it but it should.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • My country doesn't have it and it shouldn't.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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TrolleyDave

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Talking to The Living Shadow in another thread sent me on one of normal curiosity side tracks. I know socialised medical care is an often discussed subject, and you're welcome to discuss or debate here this is really more just something to satisfy my own curiosity. Personally I'm all for it, I think every country should have it implemented but then I live in a country that has it so I'm used to it and I see the benefits it brings. So thinking about that made me kind of curious about some statistics. Like whether most people that agree with it do so because they have the benefit of it, whether anyone who has it disagrees with it and that kind of thing.
 

TrolleyDave

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Ritsuki said:
What do you mean by socialised ? Medical care for everyone paid by taxes ?

Yep, that's exactly what I mean.
smile.gif
 

Klarkykat

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Our country kind of has it, but there are gaps everywhere that leave thousands vulnerable. I definitely agree with it though. I think if you look at the countries without it you see that no one really benefits.
 

CarbonX13

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I believe that socialised healthcare is the way to go as well, and I'm grateful that my country has implemented the system as well (Canada). Everyone should have equal access to healthcare, no matter how rich/poor you may be.
 

TrolleyDave

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Klarkykat said:
Our country kind of has it, but there are gaps everywhere that leave thousands vulnerable. I definitely agree with it though. I think if you look at the countries without it you see that no one really benefits.

Don't get me wrong, the British NHS isn't without it's problems! lol There's plenty of problems with the system but I doubt any country in the world has health care that is problem free.

QUOTE(Ritsuki @ Nov 2 2010, 11:55 PM) I don't know how I can describe medical care in Switzerland. It's a mix between socialised and private, but if you're interested, I invite you to read the Wikipedia page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

I actually like idea of that system alot. I think the basic health care insurance is a little too basic, but I like the basic idea. A two tier system where the basic one gives you a nice wide range of basic, emergency and essential treatments that nobody is allowed to profit from and a second one for non-essential and other extras that companies can profit from. We have both private and public here but it's a different system to that.
 

xist

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I've worked in the NHS for 5 years now, and all i can say is that in my experience the whole thing needs to be scrapped and reworked. Too many managers selected from the bottom of the pile because the better ones went to places that paid better wages. As it is now i just can't help but feel it's something that's now working in it's current state, especially with the aging population, and needs the kind of regulation that a private enterprise would have.

Don't get me wrong, i WANT health provision free for all, but it just seems to me (and others having spoken to long term employees) to have been worn down and broken over the past years.
 

TrolleyDave

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MFDC12 said:
im all for it.

i'd recommend the documentary "sicko" to anyone (i loved it even though i hate michael moore)

Definitely an excellent film. Although I will say that the clip he shows of a UK hospital isn't your average UK hospital. I like Michael Moore's message but he's guilty of using the same kind of propaganda techniques as those he's trying to oppose which makes me lose a little respect for him. He does usually have alot of good info in his films though.

QUOTE(xist @ Nov 3 2010, 12:04 AM) I've worked in the NHS for 5 years now, and all i can say is that in my experience the whole thing needs to be scrapped and reworked. Too many managers selected from the bottom of the pile because the better ones went to places that paid better wages. As it is now i just can't help but feel it's something that's now working in it's current state, especially with the aging population, and needs the kind of regulation that a private enterprise would have.

Don't get me wrong, i WANT health provision free for all, but it just seems to me (and others having spoken to long term employees) to have been worn down and broken over the past years.

A mate of mine works in the local hospital and he says the same thing. I'm not saying our system doesn't need an overhaul, my personal opinion is that it's being run into the ground in order to give them an excuse to move over to an American style system. Get enough people pissed off with it and they'll start calling for its scrapping type thing. Like you say though, you want health care for all. I've never understood why people could ever be against, which is what got me thinking earlier about whether it was just cos they don't already have it.
 

Pliskron

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Governments waste money, are corrupt, and are the most inefficient way to deliver a finite resource. It's a nice idea but a disaster in practice that results in poor rationed care, high taxes, and is capable of bankrupting nations. I'd leave medical care to the private sector. It does a good jod not perfect but better than any government. Then all you need to do is provide a proper safety net for the poor.
 

nando

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nando said:
I've never understood why people could ever be against, which is what got me thinking earlier about whether it was just cos they don't already have it.


it comes down to anything socialized = evil and i think it's mostly an american sentiment. the enemy has always been socialist or communist. but everyone ignores all the social programs we can't live without, like waste management, potable water, street maintenance, public schools etc. hawaii does have socialized health care. i went ot the hospital there once and it just felt great that they asked how i felt instead of "do you have insurance"

this country is to proud to admit it's faults. the problem is always "they" and never "us"




QUOTE(Pliskron @ Nov 2 2010, 03:26 PM) Governments waste money, are corrupt, and are the most inefficient way to deliver a finite resource. It's a nice idea but a disaster in practice that results in poor rationed care, high taxes, and is capable of bankrupting nations. I'd leave medical care to the private sector. It does a good jod not perfect but better than any government. Then all you need to do is provide a proper safety net for the poor.


that's bs. the private sector doesn't do any better than the public. they make more money, but they don't treat us any better. and who corrupts our government if not the private sector? who gives our politicians money to vote down health care for example?
 

Sterling

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I have thought about this long and hard, and I believe I made a thread that had some discussion of it. The USA I believe has made a decision with federal law. I know it has its merits, but the US's government is so corrupt at the moment that in order to get it passed, someone had to bribe a few congressmen/women and this raises red flags. If this bill was to help everyone, why wasn't it passed immediately? I'll bet 9 to nothing it has some hidden things in it that would make quite a bit of the majority unhappy. I even heard that most of the people for it had not even read it. Until our government has no chance of screwing it up, I will not be supporting socialized health care in the US. In fact I don't think the government won't screw it up. Stupid corrupt politicians. :/
 

Blood Fetish

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Pliskron said:
Governments waste money, are corrupt, and are the most inefficient way to deliver a finite resource. It's a nice idea but a disaster in practice that results in poor rationed care, high taxes, and is capable of bankrupting nations. I'd leave medical care to the private sector. It does a good jod not perfect but better than any government. Then all you need to do is provide a proper safety net for the poor.
Spot on! That is why the US doesn't spend the most on health care out of any nation on Earth, and also why we don't have any inefficiency or corruption! $50 for a box of tissues?! Sign me up! Go privatization! Invisible hand! Free market! Etc.
 

TrolleyDave

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Pliskron said:
Governments waste money, are corrupt, and are the most inefficient way to deliver a finite resource. It's a nice idea but a disaster in practice that results in poor rationed care, high taxes, and is capable of bankrupting nations. I'd leave medical care to the private sector. It does a good jod not perfect but better than any government. Then all you need to do is provide a proper safety net for the poor.

Governments are corrupt because we allow them to be. And like nando says, it's the private sector that corrupts them. And I'd actually have no problem with leaving it to the private sector if they weren't driven by profits and couldn't refuse medical aid to anybody. Oh, and ran it at a more reasonable cost that took a small amount from every eligible citizen and put it into a giant pool that covered the cost of running the country's medical system. And what would the difference be if you were paying the money you paid to an insurance company to the government who then administered it in such a way that it provided the same health care for you but also granted it for any other resident in need? You'd still be spending the same amount of money.

nando said:
it comes down to anything socialized = evil and i think it's mostly an american sentiment. the enemy has always been socialist or communist. but everyone ignores all the social programs we can't live without, like waste management, potable water, street maintenance, public schools etc. hawaii does have socialized health care. i went ot the hospital there once and it just felt great that they asked how i felt instead of "do you have insurance"

this country is to proud to admit it's faults. the problem is always "they" and never "us"

Yeah that's what I've always thought as well. I've know some really rational people to go off on one I'd never expect once the word socialised is involved! lol And you're right, everyone does ignore the rest of the stuff they don't even realise is socialised. It's just the difference in the way they promote it. I didn't realise Hawaii was like that, I'll read up on it! It's a pretty different place compared to the rest of America though. Britain can be like that as well though to be honest. I think every country is guilty of it to some extent. Although some are worse than others. *cough* North Korea *cough* lol

QUOTE(Sterl500 @ Nov 3 2010, 12:50 AM)
I have thought about this long and hard, and I believe I made a thread that had some discussion of it. The USA I believe has made a decision with federal law. I know it has its merits, but the US's government is so corrupt at the moment that in order to get it passed, someone had to bribe a few congressmen/women and this raises red flags. If this bill was to help everyone, why wasn't it passed immediately? I'll bet 9 to nothing it has some hidden things in it that would make quite a bit of the majority unhappy. I even heard that most of the people for it had not even read it. Until our government has no chance of screwing it up, I will not be supporting socialized health care in the US. In fact I don't think the government won't screw it up. Stupid corrupt politicians. :/

Ok, but say your government could pull it off. Would you support the idea of it?
 

Pliskron

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Blood Fetish said:
Pliskron said:
Governments waste money, are corrupt, and are the most inefficient way to deliver a finite resource. It's a nice idea but a disaster in practice that results in poor rationed care, high taxes, and is capable of bankrupting nations. I'd leave medical care to the private sector. It does a good jod not perfect but better than any government. Then all you need to do is provide a proper safety net for the poor.
Spot on! That is why the US doesn't spend the most on health care out of any nation on Earth, and also why we don't have any inefficiency or corruption! $50 for a box of tissues?! Sign me up! Go privatization! Invisible hand! Free market! Etc.

That"s why people from all over the world who can afford it come to the US for treatment. It's the private sector that delivers the best health care and that why the US leads the world in drug development. Also why does the government even need to be involved where 90% of people like the health care they have. The government can have a roll in providing for the few poor that slip through the cracks.
 

TrolleyDave

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Pliskron said:
That"s why people from all over the world who can afford it come to the US for treatment. It's the private sector that delivers the best health care and that why the US leads the world in drug development. Also why does the government even need to be involved where 90% of people like the health care they have. The government can have a roll in providing for the few poor that slip through the cracks.

Alright, let me ask you this. Same question just in a different way. Imagine if tomorrow when you woke up you had a letter in the post that said that at no extra cost to you your insurance now covered every single citizen in your country. It wasn't going to cost you any more money and your health care costs wouldn't change but someone who couldn't afford it would be covered, would you be against that?
 

MEGAMANTROTSKY

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Sterl500 said:
I have thought about this long and hard, and I believe I made a thread that had some discussion of it. The USA I believe has made a decision with federal law. I know it has its merits, but the US's government is so corrupt at the moment that in order to get it passed, someone had to bribe a few congressmen/women and this raises red flags. If this bill was to help everyone, why wasn't it passed immediately? I'll bet 9 to nothing it has some hidden things in it that would make quite a bit of the majority unhappy. I even heard that most of the people for it had not even read it. Until our government has no chance of screwing it up, I will not be supporting socialized health care in the US. In fact I don't think the government won't screw it up. Stupid corrupt politicians. :/

You're correct in your assumption of the "hidden things" that make "the majority unhappy." The so-called healthcare reform only requires citizens to obtain health insurance; it is a far cry from the "revolutionary" rhetoric of US state apologists. If the citizen does not obtain coverage (and the bill gives no guarantee of quality and does not obligate companies to do so) he will be fined. The reform will also drive healthcare to be even more privatized then it is currently. However, I encourage you to read these articles. It, and others that you search for will reveal the true nature of the Obama administration's phony reform. In my opinion, the second one listed is the most direct. One of the only solutions I can think of is for the proletariat to expropriate the private sector and eliminate the profit system. But that presupposes the destruction of capitalism.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jun2009/pers-j08.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/mar2010/pers-m22.shtml
 

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