Socialised medical care?

[Sephxus]

EDIT: I Don't know why I did that. Sorry.

 

[Sterling]

*snip
Really? From everything that the government has done with or without your consent, health care is what you want to stand against? You don't want government between you and your doctor.

Have you wondered why the fuck do we need health care more now than ever before? People are getting sick more often. Why do you think that is happening?

This goes from the air we breath to the fucken food we eat, and guess what the government is already in there.

What about the government subsidizing corn? Why don't make a stand on that? The very food we eat is making us sick.

Why don't you focus on what the government is already doing that is bad for the world and the country? Health care will actually benefit you. You don't want to pay higher taxes for health care, but what about the taxes you already pay for the war in Iraq, the cheap food (that includes all meat and fast food), and other shit you don't even know.

If you were truly an above average citizen, you will be motivated to be a part of the government. And you would be in favor of things that would actually benefit the country.

ps - there is no such thing as "human" nature. flawed argument. instead of "human" nature, which would assume that social behavior generated or explained through a quasi-biological argument about humans, try to relate human behavior, in your case greed, as something evolved from or encouraged by the culture in which we live in. i.e. the American Dream.

You cannot deny that the voting generation today is a bunch of uneducated degenerates.

Really? What kind of argument is that? Source

Research voting turnout then explain the degenerates.

pps - it seems that most of your arguments are based on your own assumptions.

(Rydian, is he an ignorant?)

No, my conclusions are not assumptions, they are observations. Two totally different things. How can you have a source for a statement about stating an opinion? You can't provide a source for an unscientific observation either. I have no want or need to be in this government. If I did, I would have my hands tied behind my back, just like the very people (That I hate) who make promises they cannot keep. This american dream you speak of has it's ideas set in the very root of human nature. People have always strove to live in as much comfort as they can muster. The ruling class also has always had the habit of collecting wealth. This has been going of for thousands of years. If anything, the American Dream has taught people in the lower class to make their own way, and not let the man keep them down. Human behavior is a direct cause of human nature. We aren't robots. Every one is different, and we all act differently. If we didn't have Human nature, then we wouldn't be individuals with separate ideas and feelings. We'd be emotionless bricks.

Also, the world has more problems that can be fixed, and some "fixes" instead compromise other areas. You cannot plug all the holes in a worn out boat, so you have to find a way to move all the water out. You have to learn to play the cards you're given. Fast Food is also not a problem. I at McDonalds for a month straight 2-3 meals a day, and I LOST weight. As a 300 Lb male, I can safely say that if I had any good metabolism to speak of, I wouldn't weigh 300 Lbs. If you want to place blame, blame it on a high standard of living. I also truly believe that our government is a lost cause, but I am stuck with it. I have to play the cards I am given, and accept it as a necessary evil. But I'll be damned if I pay taxes for sub par health care, that in the long run would be cheaper if I shelled out money for it myself.

Also: Implying you aren't ignorant in some way shape or form. :troll:

 

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Why is the thread not allowing its vision beyond the current confines of the capitalist system? The so-called healthcare reform bill was written by and for the interests of the American bourgeoisie. In order to even speak of what socialized healthcare might look like, I suggest the following:

1. Realize that the argument should, for now, not focus how much government is involved, but what social class is currently in control of said government, and how the US state is assisting them in rationing health care according to the amount of income without any guarantee of quality. Acknowledging the inequity of the class structure is imperative, for it reveals the distorted character of what passes for socialized healthcare.

2. The US government does not accurately represent the the will of the masses. The Obama administration is assisting in an openly right-wing policy that has only benefited the lords of Wall Street. Debating big vs. small government is a red herring; whether the US government is huge or infinitesimal, it will continue to represent the interests of the top 20% who control around 80% of the national social wealth (as of 2007, http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html)

3. Observations by posters no doubt have merit, but in my opinion what is needed to proceed is hard fact. Debating semantics and ideology will get us nowhere if we are hung up on such hogwash as the meaning of the "American Dream".

4. Some context on this subject may be provided by this rather unflattering review of Michael Moore's "Sicko." I encourage anybody curious about this subject to take this website out for a spin. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/sick-j07.shtml

 

[Crass]

Imagine if the US government were to use half of what we spend on defense budget and put that back into social programs such as health care and higher education for all. In the short term alot of people with military-industry jobs would get laid off, but with a more education population, and tax revenue available for subsidizing new industries and technology I think it would work out for the long run. Of course the military industry has one of the largest lobby's, and despite all the rabble from the republicans regarding cutting government waste, not one has mentioned increasing accountability with military spending. Thats where true fiscal responsibility needs to start.

 

[murkurie]

Imagine if the US government were to use half of what we spend on defense budget and put that back into social programs such as health care and higher education for all. In the short term alot of people with military-industry jobs would get laid off, but with a more education population, and tax revenue available for subsidizing new industries and technology I think it would work out for the long run. Of course the military industry has one of the largest lobby's, and despite all the rabble from the republicans regarding cutting government waste, not one has mentioned increasing accountability with military spending. Thats where true fiscal responsibility needs to start.

Half of the Defense budget is about 10% of the total spending, with the defense budget for this year(2010) about %20, which comes out too about 550 Billion. 225 billion doesn't seem like enough to do a whole lot overall in the long run.

 

[Shinigami357]

My country kind of thinks it has it, when in reality it doesn't, and whatever healthcare sucks. Unless you have these medicare groups covering your sick ass, you're screwed.

 

[Panzer Tacticer]

You really appreciate socialized medical care the moment you need it and couldn't afford it otherwise.

Most people against it, have never needed it.